General Info [Archive] - Page 30 - InternationalSexGuide

Soapy Smith

11-12-13, 04:39

I'm not looking to go there to hand out bags of food; I have a background which I know without question is needed there.You may have important skills and training, but that isn't the issue. The problem is their capability to accommodate and support your services. It is notable that you are battle-hardened and know how to live in uncomfortable conditions, but the issue is not you, it is them. Most importantly, you will need supporting organizations on the ground that will recognize your capabilities and be able and willing to take you on board. There may be exceptions, but many of those organizations will not welcome you with open arms. And where the international NGOs are concerned, despite your self-sufficient skills, they might not want to be liable for your safety if you go all maverick on them.

Even in non-crisis, relaxed times Philippine organizations resist outsiders whose motivations they do not trust. Historically, the military has dominated disaster management in the Philippines. Despite some attempts in the 2010 Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Act to decentralize responsibility, the Secretary of Defense retains the Chair of the National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council. Military control of disaster management leads to an emphasis on immediate response and initial recovery. That is why in the photos and videos coming out of the Philippines response is characterized by helicopters, C-130s, and military radio communications, and the military is being sent in to restore order. Grunts may appreciate your comradeship, but regardless how extensive your military training for another country was, I doubt the military brass will welcome having you tread on their turf.

What the Philippines does not do well is to prepare—build safe evacuation centers and evacuation plans; educate people about preparation; create stocks of food, water, tents, and other supplies in areas outside Manila; install backup generators at key places in the provinces (police stations, hospitals, etc.) ; install and train locals with alternative communication systems—and mitigate vulnerable areas by moving squatters out of the most vulnerable areas, building protective sea and river walls, build more disaster resistant bridges and highways, enhance building codes and construction practices, simply enforce the existing building and zoning codes, and so on. Under the new law local governments are supposed to take more responsibility for preparation and mitigation, but many local government units have been resistant. So with these units, where you might otherwise be useful, they simply don't have systems in place to screen volunteers. In addition, they are operating in crisis mode; if you can even find people who are authorized to make decisions, they are not operating in the kind of reflective mode that could recognize what you have to offer.

Westerners are part of the problem. We see the horrific photos and videos and we want to jump in and help the suffering people. So huge amounts of private contributions and foreign aid get sent for humanitarian assistance, and less is available for the ongoing development that would strengthen Philippine communities and infrastructure and make them less vulnerable. Furthermore, our contributions lead to bloat in International NGOs for mission areas that attend to immediate relief work rather than poverty alleviation and long-term development.

Regarding English competency, keep in mind that your interactions in the past have been with commercial interests who hire people with reasonable English skills. Many of the people most affected by this typhoon are poor, uneducated people, and many have limited English skills. Furthermore, in Leyte and Samar, the two hardest hit areas, the local language is Waray-Waray, not Tagalog. How's your Waray-Waray?

If you think I am making this stuff up, let me suggest a good screening procedure. Print out your posts and mine, delete or redact any ISG markings, and take our respective messages to the authority in your locale that has lead responsibility for coordinating volunteers and donations in emergency / disaster management. Assuming you are from the states, it might be the local Red Cross chapter, or the Salvation Army, a county volunteer office, or sometimes a nonprofit volunteer agency. Ask them for their advice. If they concur with your plans, by all means spend your money and travel to the Philippines. Many commercial interests, in your country and the Philippines, will appreciate your money.

For several years running, the Philippines has ranked third among the world's nations in terms of disaster vulnerability, behind only the small South Pacific island nations of Vanatu and Tonga. Because of climate change typhoons are not going away (24 this year already, I read) , and the Philippines is vulnerable to volcanic and earthquake activity because of its location at the edges of major tectonic plates. So, if you really want to help, get in touch with World Vision, Christian Aid, or one of the other large NGOs that do disaster assistance in the Philippines, and ask how you can get involved in helping prepare for or mitigate against future disasters.

Ps. I commend your donations and understand that you wish you could do more. I feel likewise, and I have friends here in the states from Tacloban who have no idea whether their families are alive. I have been to Tacloban, used the now wiped-out airport, and find the locals there as endearing as they are in most other parts of the Philippines. But the reason NGOs ask for money rather than volunteers or contributions of food and supplies is that the latter require much more coordination, storage, and handling. Money, on the other hand, can be wired internationally, and with it they can make local purchases that help the local economy and can be delivered more quickly, with minimal storage and logistical requirements.

Econo Tech

11-12-13, 06:20

. There may be exceptions, but many of those organizations will not welcome you with open arms. .Don't' forget the influence of the "yellow" Insiders, who supposedly use every occasion to attack the govt, on human rights and what not. And of course, when you find out who make up most of the numbers of NPA. No surprise there.

Add to it, Parts of the areas impacted are NPA strong land, though NPA exists all over PH.

Soapy Smith

11-12-13, 07:23

My daughter is a nurse. Her childhood dream had always been to volunteer as a nurse in Africa. She finally found an organization she wanted to work with so a few months ago she went to Kenya. They charged her about $1, 000 to register and place her for a month plus she paid her own airfare. The airfare I have no issue with, nor do I have a problem paying a reasonable amount for a billet, but somehow to me it is just wrong to ask a volunteer to pay for the opportunity to "volunteer".I have seen these organizations before. They are, as you depict it, essentially shams. They prey on young people from more prosperous countries and basically make profit from offering a "summer camp" sort of experience. Except that, since they are mostly into collecting money, they rarely have good connections with the organizations to which they send the young people. There are many legitimate NGOs in the world that will take volunteers and give them good experiences in international development.

There is an important distinction between International NGOs (INGOs) and those that are Philippine-based. The Philippine-based NGOs, especially those based in Manila, are among the most politicized in the world; that is, their energies are directed to advocacy—with members of Congress, with executive branch agencies, and with local government units. Obviously there are exceptions; there are some that have direct service missions. Most INGOs, by comparison, are more focused on service delivery. Some INGOs also direct support to local community-based organizations which they have vetted, and some of these may have local health or health-education needs. The local NGOs pay Philippine-level salaries, and often not particularly good ones. Traditionally they have gotten their money from Western donors—mostly Western philanthropies and bi-lateral and multi-lateral aid agencies. But they now find themselves in a squeeze: the Western money is drying up as Western compassion has moved on to Africa and other poor areas of the world. Many are having trouble balancing their budgets, and they are laying off staff.

If your daughter's interest is to do an internship which she does not pay for, she should perhaps start with the INGOs that operate in the Philippines. I describe a few of them below.

Here is a fairly comprehensive listing of NGOs in the Philippines, although these are not exclusively health-related:

http://www.psdn.org.ph/NGOs/profile.htm

I don't know if they have a permanent mission to the Philippines, but the largest health-oriented NGO in the world is Doctors Without Borders. In recent years they have sent missions to the Philippines to deal with disasters. They might be a good place to inquire:

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/publications/ar/report.cfm?id=6222

Here is a link to World Vision's health and nutrition activities in the Philippines. World Vision is the largest International NGO in the world (based on budget). They are faith-based, but they work hard to balance their faith component with pragmatic solutions. Example: low-key condom distribution programs in Africa. Your daughter could ask them about other international NGOs operating in the Philippines. She might also ask World Vision about the Philippine International NGO Network (PINGON). A few years ago this was a viable group that included many of the bigger INGOs, but it now seems to have no internet presence. The point here is to find out the names of other INGOs operating in the Philippines:

http://www.worldvision.org.ph/our-work/health-nutrition

Weblinks specifically to health-related NGOs. Most, but perhaps not all, are Philippine organizations. Some, like the Deseret group (Mormons) clearly have Western affiliations. I can't vouch for these organizations, but many if not most of the links work:

http://aboutphilippines.ph/Health-organizations.htm#Health.

There is also CodeNGO, the Caucus of Development NGO Networks. These are Philippine-based NGOs. This is a large national umbrella organization. Its 12 members are regional or mission-oriented networks of individual NGOs and People's Organizations. There are easily hundreds of NGOs within this structure. Unfortunately, only a few of them have health-related interests. But a person can easily check out the various sub-networks to see what is included:

http://code-ngo.org/home/

Finally, she could check with Gawad Kalinga. This is a housing development NGO, similar to Habitat for Humanity, but their programs are broader in that they also provide job training, health and nutrition education for poor people, and so on. OF take note: they also pull together teams quickly to build homes for disaster victims. They have a place to sign up for their on-call volunteer list. About seven years ago they moved in very quickly following a mudslide in Southern Leyte that buried a village of 1200 people, and built a new village within three or four months for survivors. I can almost guarantee they will be building villages on Leyte and Samar. For anything else you may need to contact them directly to really get their attention, since they are sort of into mass recruitments for one-day builds. As a part of their mission they spend a lot of time in poor communities doing nutrition and prenatal care training. They have a separate sign-up for internships:

http://gk1world.com/volunteer

Also see PJ's great list of NGOs that do disaster relief.

Pete Benetar

11-12-13, 08:08

As you've guessed by now, by just showing up you would indeed become more of a burden.This is true in the vast majority people who wish to jump in and just do something. In a pair of NGO vetted missions to Haiti post earthquake I spent about 1% of my time in my given specialty area and the remainder of my clinical time providing primary care, quite inefficiently at that. Generally much better to give donations to a group that does its work efficiently.

FWIW, the group I'm using for Haiyan is Direct Relief International which has one of the highest efficiency ratings for any relief organization (about 99%). First link is Charity Navigator that reviews charitable groups.

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3626#.UoHPxPl96Sp

http://www.directrelief.org/

OralFanatic

11-12-13, 11:41

You may have important skills and training, but that isn't the issue. The problem is their capability to accommodate and support your services.Skip (and anyone has who may have missed this) , I guess I should have written this in bold all-caps, flashing text, and focused a spotlight on my comment – 'I've thought about just flying there and I'm sure I could make it to Leyte despite the issues but I want to make sure I can serve a purpose there rather than becoming a burden on the resources necessary to sustain life'.

I'm not sure how I could have been any clearer on my understanding that simply showing up in the affected area would be a burden on already scarce resources. Been there, done that, understand completely the implications.

Skip, you are still way off base on the language barrier; my interaction with Filipinos has NOT been on a commercial basis; 99% of my interactions with Filipinos has been with the 'poor, uneducated' people you mentioned, not college pukes. Aside from the Philippines, I have lived and worked in countries where no one spoke Engrish and I didn't speak one word of their language. Although that presented difficulties, I didn't find anything that was impossible to achieve, including finding and negotiating a piece of ass in the middle of nowhere in an Arabic speaking country.

The PI may not be quite up to the level of the US for emergency preparedness, but they didn't do too badly with Haiyan. They did manage to evacuate 800, 000 people in advance of the storm although some were not moved inland far enough. Many of those who died, tragically, were warned to leave but did not. The US had roughly 1, 800 people killed by Katrina, a storm milder than Haiyan, so I think the authorities in the PI deserve a LOT of credit for saving lives with far less resources and infrastructure than what the US has. Americans (I am one) are in no position to lecture others.

OralFanatic

11-12-13, 12:55

Amanut, I couldn't find the exact website I was in yesterday but Pip Jaeger posted some excellent sources below. The 'Mercy Corp' name is where I think I saw a way for medical personnel to volunteer but I couldn't find the page this time. The link Pip posted for Doctors Without Borders seems like a better source anyway and they actually pay a small stipend.

Thanks to all who have posted links to relief organizations. I donated to Catholic Relief Services and want to provide a link for that.

https://secure.crs.org/site/Donation2?df_id=6140&6140.donation=form1

The Salvation Army supposedly commits 100% of funding to relief efforts and could also be considered a good place to donate.

https://donate.salvationarmyusa.org/TyphoonHaiyan

You can also donate $10 by texting TYPHOON to 80888 and reply 'yes' to confirm your donation. That service is available on Verizon Wireless, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile subscribers and goes to the Salvation Army.

I didn't expect to see this many responses to my query and perhaps I should have started a new thread. It is heartening to see so many of you (me too) despicable sinners opening your wallets to help people affected by Typhoon Haiyan. Father Cobb would be proud.

Soapy Smith

11-12-13, 14:46

The PI may not be quite up to the level of the US for emergency preparedness, but they didn't do too badly with Haiyan. They did manage to evacuate 800, 000 people in advance of the storm although some were not moved inland far enough. Many of those who died, tragically, were warned to leave but did not. The US had roughly 1, 800 people killed by Katrina, a storm milder than Haiyan, so I think the authorities in the PI deserve a LOT of credit for saving lives with far less resources and infrastructure than what the US has. Americans (I am one) are in no position to lecture others.I agree that we Americans can be quite arrogant about these things. But as to the Philippines being third most vulnerable, that assessment came from the Germans, with help from the UN and Nature Conservancy. In the report the Philippines is noted for its "exposure" to hazards, but its vulnerability is also due to "lack of coping capacities" and "lack of adaptive strategies." Here is an English language version of the Germans' report.

http://www.ehs.unu.edu/file/get/10487.pdf

Calculations are shown on p 64.

GoodEnough

11-12-13, 14:58

Wicked Roger

11-12-13, 15:00

In the report the Philippines is noted for its "exposure" to hazards, but its vulnerability is also due to "lack of coping capacities" and "lack of adaptive strategies." Here is an English language version of the Germans' report.

http://www.ehs.unu.edu/file/get/10487.pdf

Calculations are shown on p 64.Could have added to that list the endemic corruption of politicians (vis a vis the pork barrel scam) in which so many have allegedly stolen the cash that was destined for other matters. While it would not have stopped the typhoon it could have helped alleviate issues (was reading something about infrastructrure) and there would be plenty of cash in the pot to help survivors. But of course there is not.

Hutsori

11-12-13, 16:40

Here's a link to one of three front page stories from today's New York Times. The simple fact is that this countries lacks the planes, the supplies and other equipment necessary to provide massive relief, so most of the heavy lifting seems to get done by the international community. For all it's vaunted economic growth it seems the country hasn't yet gotten around to buying the supplies and equipment it needs or to building adequate infrastructure.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/13/world/asia/concerns-grow-over-pace-of-aid-to-philippines.html?ref=international-home

GEThe article doesn't highlight how deficient the Philippines is. In a disaster a C-130 becomes the workhorse to bring in the needed supplies and personnel; the Philippines has three. Three?!? On a good day. Usually only one is airworthy. Often in an emergency those that aren't airworthy are pressed into service.

Given how important airports are I have to wonder why many are covered in tin roofs. Pretty much guarantees the airport will be destroyed.

Fast Eddie 48

11-12-13, 21:56

The article doesn't highlight how deficient the Philippines is. In a disaster a C-130 becomes the workhorse to bring in the needed supplies and personnel; the Philippines has three. Three? On a good day. Usually only one is airworthy. Often in an emergency those that aren't airworthy are pressed into service.

Given how important airports are I have to wonder why many are covered in tin roofs. Pretty much guarantees the airport will be destroyed.To Hustsori.

The Philipipines government are good at dragging their feet when helping their own people, they should just sent in the Army on Helicopter and ship bring in supply and water, they are waiting for donation from other country and see how much they can pocket, most of the relief agency like red cross and Salvation army if you donate money only less than half will get to the people that need it, US will commit 20 mil USD to the Philippines relief hope the money will go to helping the people not to Aquino pocket.

Fast Eddie 48

LukeSkywalker

11-12-13, 22:35

This massive typhoon Haiyan may well be one of the worst natural disaster this century for the poor island country of the Phil. It was a cat 4 compared to hurricane Katrina against New Orleans, which was a cat 3. The pictures of bloated dead bodies are shocking, just like the Tsunami that happened to the Adaman sea.

I am a soft touch. I cannot forget all the fun times and tender moments I spent with the nice, sweet girls of the Philippines. Their pains are my pains.

Below are sites to make direct donations to typhoon Haiyan:

http://news.yahoo.com/how-to-help-do.195111618.html

They take credit / debit cards on line so you don't have to bother mailing.

I understand some non-profit charities are just pork barrels for their highly-paid executives to loot and fatten themselves. Some charities send very low percentages of donations to relieve victims, but pay their executives outrageous salaries. You need to concentrate your hard-earned donations on those charities that will benefit victims the most.

Below are the ratings of the best ones:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/inde.3#.UoKL-_k_slI

Rank Charity Overall Score.

1 Globus Relief 69. 95

2 Matthew 25: Ministries 69. 95

3 Books For Africa 69. 94

4 Project C. U. R. E. 69. 92

5 Direct Relief 69. 90

6 Midwest Food Bank 69. 89

7 Step Up For Students 69. 88

8 Charities Aid Foundation America 69. 85

9 American Endowment Foundation 69. 85

10 Medical Teams International 69. 83

DIRECT RELIEF ranks as top 5 and is appealing for donations to the Phil. I urge the bros to send their donations via DIRECT RELIEF:

https://forgood.yahoo.com/donate/67/news

Sorry. Posted in manila thread in error

LukeSkywalker

11-12-13, 22:51

Rarely see destruction in such large scale:

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/typhoon-ravaged-philippine-islands-slideshow/

Pip Jaeger

11-12-13, 23:43

I understand some non-profit charities are just pork barrels for their highly-paid executives to loot and fatten themselves. Some charities send very low percentages of donations to relieve victims, but pay their executives outrageous salaries. You need to concentrate your hard-earned donations on those charities that will benefit victims the most.You're right, many of them are. It's best to check to see what their admin cost and fundraising percentages are. I recall reading somewhere that for US based charities it can not exceed 35% (combined) of all moneys received, but that's still a rather high figure IMHO. Whenever possible I personally prefer to make a direct contribution of goods or, if donating cash, I seek out a charity with a very low admin / fundraising percentage of not more then 20% (combined).

I was having this very same discussion with one of my girls on Monday (after my last post) and she informed of the relief effort being made here by Comcast Cable, specifically the ABS-CBN News network, where 100% of the cash donations received are being used to purchase goods and pay for the transport to get it to the affected areas. They are taking cash donations via text, online, phone in pledges as well as direct donations at their stations and they are also accepting direct donations of goods, what they call "In Hand" donations, at all of their stations / offices as well as a couple of distribution / logistic centers they've set up around the islands, with the primary one being located in Quezon City.

So if you're here in the Phils you can do what I did, even if you have a small budget I'm sure you can spare enough for a couple of kilos of rice or a few boxes of energy bars. I decided to make a donation of food and personal hygiene items, but as my budget may be a little more then many of the cheap charlies who visit I hired a mini-van from a taxi service and went to a local a SM Hypermarket. BTW, to show you how lovely the people are here, once the driver found out what my intent was, he not only refused any payment, but also helped at the store and happily pitched in with the loading and unloading. The driver also suggested we first speak to the SM store manager, which we did. I told him my budget and we made up a list. The manager rounded up a couple of stock boys, who went and loaded up the carts with the provisions and then help load the van for us as well. Also, after making a brief phone call to his regional manager for consent, the store manager provided all of the goods at cost; so I was able to get more supplies for the amount I was donating.

Links to the Comcast donation sites:

http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2013/11/11/typhoon-yolanda-relief-and-contact-information/

http://www.gmanetwork.com/international/articles/2013-11-11/214/GMA-Kapuso-Foundation-Calls-for-Donation.

And of course a link to the ABS-CBN news site, which has been providing excellent coverage! :

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/

KongKing

11-13-13, 02:01

FreebieFan

11-13-13, 02:33

Some great shared information here on how individuals can best help the Philippines.

Also encouraging is the way many countries have rapidly offered help. The Philippines is primarily a catholic country. I will be interested to see how much the Vatican will give (return) to the Philippines in addition to giving prayers.

KongKingSo will I. As the third largest landholder in the country one would expect them to be on a par in their generousity with SM / Ayalas etc. But no doubt, they will say " we helped people to pray ".

This is after all, the one and only corporation in the Philippines that is allowed to pay ZERO, yes ZERO tax on all its substantial revenues.

They go directly an untouched to Rome.

The current Presidents mother let that happen, and god fearing Gloria continued it.

Soapy Smith

11-13-13, 06:32

Could have added to that list the endemic corruption of politicians (vis a vis the pork barrel scam) in which so many have allegedly stolen the cash that was destined for other matters. While it would not have stopped the typhoon it could have helped alleviate issues (was reading something about infrastructrure) and there would be plenty of cash in the pot to help survivors. But of course there is not.The Germans did include that. I misstated the facts in the previous post. In addition to "Exposure" (severity and frequency of earthquakes, floods, cyclones, and sea level rise) , there are actually three capacity indicators. They are:

Susceptibility.

+ Indicator A: Share of population without access to improved sanitation.

+ Indicator B: Share of population without access to clean water.

+ Indicator C: Share of population undernourished.

+ Indicator D: Share of under 15- and over 65-year-olds in the working population.

+ Indicator F: Gross domestic product per capita (purchasing power parity)

+ Indicator G: Gini index; a measure of income inequality.

Coping capacities.

+ Indicator A: Perception of corruption.

+ Indicator B: Good governance.

+ Indicator C: Number of physicians per 10, 000 inhabitants.

+ Indicator D: Number of hospital beds per 10, 000 inhabitants

+ Indicator E: Insurances.

Adaptive capacities.

+ Indicator A: Adult literacy rate.

+ Indicator B: Combined gross school enrolment.

+ Indicator C: Gender parity in education.

+ Indicator D: Share of female representatives in the National Parliament

+ Indicator E: Water resources.

+ Indicator F: Biodiversity and habitat protection.

+ Indicator G: Forest management.

+ Indicator H: Agricultural management

+ Indicator I: Public health expenditure

+ Indicator J: Life expectancy.

+ Indicator K: Private health expenditure.

Soapy Smith

11-13-13, 07:29

Obviously nobody wants to give to nonprofit organizations that pay disproportionately high executive salaries or whose fundraising costs exceed their program expenditures. But it is also possible to overdo the emphasis on "efficiency." I am surprised that Charity Navigator still promotes the relative proportions of funds going to overhead and program, respectively, since its leader loudly pronounced a few years ago that 'overhead ratios and executive salaries are useless for evaluating a nonprofit's impact. '

http://blogs.hbr.org/2009/12/charity-navigator-fixes-its-compass/

Critics have pointed out that these single indicators are suspect for a number of reasons.

http://www.philanthropyjournal.org/news/studies-slam-charity-watchdogs%e2%80%99-ratings.

Maybe it makes more sense to do a little additional research about the performance of some of these charities rather than trust exclusively this one simple, often misleading, indicator. It strikes me that a few of the posts about specific charities have been based on personal experience. I would sooner hear recommendations from some of the thoughtful people on the forum than put all my eggs in the Charity Navigator "efficiency" calculation. And keep in mind that the principal charity watchdogs-Charity Watch, Charity Navigator, and Better Business Bureau Wise Giving Alliance-have their own ideological axes to grind, as do most of the charities.

LukeSkywalker

11-13-13, 07:32

Pip is quite a compassionate bro.

I applaud his personal involvement in the relief of typhoon Haiyan victims.

When I come back to the Phil, will PM you, perhaps buy you a few drinks.

Take care and good luck!

I was having this very same discussion with one of my girls on Monday (after my last post) and she informed of the relief effort being made here by Comcast Cable, specifically the ABS-CBN News network, where 100% of the cash donations received are being used to purchase goods and pay for the transport to get it to the affected areas. They are taking cash donations via text, online, phone in pledges as well as direct donations at their stations and they are also accepting direct donations of goods, what they call "In Hand" donations, at all of their stations / offices as well as a couple of distribution / logistic centers they've set up around the islands, with the primary one being located in Quezon City.

So if you're here in the Phils you can do what I did, even if you have a small budget I'm sure you can spare enough for a couple of kilos of rice or a few boxes of energy bars. I decided to make a donation of food and personal hygiene items, but as my budget may be a little more then many of the cheap charlies who visit I hired a mini-van from a taxi service and went to a local a SM Hypermarket. BTW, to show you how lovely the people are here, once the driver found out what my intent was, he not only refused any payment, but also helped at the store and happily pitched in with the loading and unloading. The driver also suggested we first speak to the SM store manager, which we did. I told him my budget and we made up a list. The manager rounded up a couple of stock boys, who went and loaded up the carts with the provisions and then help load the van for us as well. Also, after making a brief phone call to his regional manager for consent, the store manager provided all of the goods at cost; so I was able to get more supplies for the amount I was donating.

Links to the Comcast donation sites:

http://xfinity.comcast.net/blogs/tv/2013/11/11/typhoon-yolanda-relief-and-contact-information/

http://www.gmanetwork.com/international/articles/2013-11-11/214/GMA-Kapuso-Foundation-Calls-for-Donation.

And of course a link to the ABS-CBN news site, which has been providing excellent coverage! :

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/

Wicked Roger

11-13-13, 16:26

Never seen a report like before in a local newspaper during a major crisis. Speaking to many pinoys etc, they agree with the sentiments of the article and wonder when the allegded pork barrel senators will come and offer cash and aid- well one is in the USA.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/526693/cnn-bbc-intl-media-slam-aquino-for-disorganized-yolanda-aid-response

Same sort of article on Yanoo Philippines.

Pip Jaeger

11-13-13, 23:22

Also encouraging is the way many countries have rapidly offered help. The Philippines is primarily a catholic country. I will be interested to see how much the Vatican will give (return) to the Philippines in addition to giving prayers.

KongKing
So will I. As the third largest landholder in the country one would expect them to be on a par in their generousity with SM / Ayalas etc. But no doubt, they will say " we helped people to pray ".The Pope authorized 150, 000. 00 USD to be sent to the hardest hit dioceses here. Considering the tens of millions collected every week and the billions in assets held by the church it's, IMHO, a rather paltry sum.

http://www.romereports.com/palio/pope-sends-150000-as-vatican-sets-up-fund-for-victims-of-super-typhoon-in-philippines-english-11575.html#.UoP1-E3xs5s

Pip Jaeger

11-13-13, 23:29

Pip is quite a compassionate bro.

I applaud his personal involvement in the relief of typhoon Haiyan victims.

When I come back to the Phil, will PM you, perhaps buy you a few drinks.

Take care and good luck!Thanks Luke. As many of us who've been here already know, the people here are wonderful. So to me it seemed only natural to give back to the people in their time of need.

As a side note, I'm in AC now for a couple of weeks and I'll continue to donate, but on a much more personal level, LOL.

FreebieFan

11-14-13, 01:39

The Pope authorized 150, 000. 00 USD to be sent to the hardest hit dioceses here. Considering the tens of millions collected every week and the billions in assets held by the church it's, IMHO, a rather paltry sum.

http://www.romereports.com/palio/pope-sends-150000-as-vatican-sets-up-fund-for-victims-of-super-typhoon-in-philippines-english-11575.html#.UoP1-E3xs5sPopes US$ 150, 000 is on a par with Chinas offer of US$ 100, 000.

The Americans are coming out of this as heros. Report, front page of Guardian (UK newspaper) says " Americans make first delivery of food to Tacloban". No mention of Philippines efforts.

Front page of Daily Telegraph, (UK newspaper) says " Convoy of dead bodies held up by gunmen".

Sub head states that " Belgium Israel and Australia setting up field hospitals.

Lower headline states " UN aid workers leaving after being threatened by knife wielding gangs".

Philippines government looking inept and incapable and the Europeans / Americans are being " reported" to be doing a lot more than the local government. Fair of biased reporting, who knows.

The only mention of President is that he says it will be only 2300 dead not 10, 000. Internationally hes seen to be silent about all this, as is Vp Binay. They need a leader and there doesn't seem to be one who is both seen and heard as a chief, who acts as a chief.

LukeSkywalker

11-14-13, 01:53

You've got a good point.

We should look at the needs and find the charities best equipped to service those needs right now. People will die of hunger, thirst and diseases if exposed to the environment within 1 to 2 weeks.

With roads washed out and bridges swept away, the roads may be difficult to navigate, making delivery of aids on land difficult, if not possible.

The quickest means to deliver aids right now would be by helicopters or airdrops, providing there are people on the ground who are coordinated to distribute aids and administer medicines etc. Drinking water pouches or bottles and instant food can be thrown out of helicopter to crowds of people as had been done after the tsunami in the Adaman sea.

Look for charities who have worked with the US government and US military in the past, like Red Cross, Catholic Charity, World Vision, Direct Donations etc.

Obviously nobody wants to give to nonprofit organizations that pay disproportionately high executive salaries or whose fundraising costs exceed their program expenditures. But it is also possible to overdo the emphasis on "efficiency." I am surprised that Charity Navigator still promotes the relative proportions of funds going to overhead and program, respectively, since its leader loudly pronounced a few years ago that 'overhead ratios and executive salaries are useless for evaluating a nonprofit's impact. '

http://blogs.hbr.org/2009/12/charity-navigator-fixes-its-compass/

Critics have pointed out that these single indicators are suspect for a number of reasons.

http://www.philanthropyjournal.org/news/studies-slam-charity-watchdogs

%e2%80%99-ratings.

Maybe it makes more sense to do a little additional research about the performance of some of these charities rather than trust exclusively this one simple, often misleading, indicator. It strikes me that a few of the posts about specific charities have been based on personal experience. I would sooner hear recommendations from some of the thoughtful people on the forum than put all my eggs in the Charity Navigator "efficiency" calculation. And keep in mind that the principal charity watchdogs-Charity Watch, Charity Navigator, and Better Business Bureau Wise Giving Alliance-have their own ideological axes to grind, as do most of the charities.

Tally Wacker

11-14-13, 01:55

Popes US$ 150, 000 is on a par with Chinas offer of US$ 100, 000.

The Americans are coming out of this as heros. Report, front page of Guardian (UK newspaper) says " Americans make first delivery of food to Tacloban". No mention of Philippines efforts.

Front page of Daily Telegraph, (UK newspaper) says " Convoy of dead bodies held up by gunmen".

Sub head states that " Belgium Israel and Australia setting up field hospitals.

Lower headline states " UN aid workers leaving after being threatened by knife wielding gangs".

Philippines government looking inept and incapable and the Europeans / Americans are being " reported" to be doing a lot more than the local government. Fair of biased reporting, who knows.

The only mention of President is that he says it will be only 2300 dead not 10, 000. Internationally hes seen to be silent about all this, as is Vp Binay. They need a leader and there doesn't seem to be one who is both seen and heard as a chief, who acts as a chief.Looks like the USS George Washington and four other ships will arrive in the Leyte Gulf today.

"We have water purification units that are coming today. I won't give you the technical details of that, but these are coming out of Japan. We have got expeditionary runway sets that are coming out, so that will include what we call a mini tower. It won't be an actual radar, but it will be more than just a beacon to allow airplanes to land at night, and then we have light sets that are going up today. So we can start doing 24-hour operations starting today," said Kennedy.

http://www.voanews.com/content/us-carrier-group-to-arrive-in-philippines-wednesday/1788838.html

Econo Tech

11-14-13, 03:25

Interesting to see a few native voices demanding US deliver the goods and stuff directly, not via any Local Govt / Politico, as a reminder of the Bohol Earthquake where the local mayor apparently demanded all things must go through him.

Though people forgot that when it goes via the Govt, also, the Big Cheese plonks his name / photo, as if it came from him.

LukeSkywalker

11-14-13, 07:07

Caroline Kennedy was recently sent to japan as US ambassador.

Being victim of a horrendous tragedy herself, she's probably crying her heart out for the victims of the typhoon Haiyan or Yolanda.

She's probably been bugging all US military commands in Japan to rush aids to the Philippines.

This is the time we can show the world how noble, compassionate and caring Americans are.

Looks like the USS George Washington and four other ships will arrive in the Leyte Gulf today.

"We have water purification units that are coming today. I won't give you the technical details of that, but these are coming out of Japan. We have got expeditionary runway sets that are coming out, so that will include what we call a mini tower. It won't be an actual radar, but it will be more than just a beacon to allow airplanes to land at night, and then we have light sets that are going up today. So we can start doing 24-hour operations starting today," said Kennedy.

http://www.voanews.com/content/us-carrier-group-to-arrive-in-philippines-wednesday/1788838.html

Soapy Smith

11-14-13, 07:27

This obviously relates to the criticism of Aquino's leadership:

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/526811/ochoa-almendras-now-in-charge-of-yolanda-relief-ndrrmc-chief

The NDRRM Coordinating Council was retained by the military in the 2010 law despite appeals by NGOs and some scholars to move it into the Office of the President. Now it looks like Del Rosario, who worked for the military as Executive Director of the Council, pissed off Aquino. And so now control appears to have been moved to a couple of Aquino's lieutenants. Problem is, they probably know squat about disaster management. But perhaps it is irrelevant given how many other responsible officials appear to have performed poorly. Lots of blame to go around here, and they are unlikely to fix their systems and perform well in subsequent disasters until fundamental changes occur in the institutional structures that perpetuate control with the oligarchy of families that run the country. In other words, the 2010 law theoretically devolved responsibility down to coordinating councils in the provinces, cities, and municipalities, but people down in the LGUs either doubt their actual authority to act or resist being directed from the national government in what they see as an unfunded mandate. These performance failures were predictable.

LukeSkywalker

11-14-13, 08:38

" none of the aid passing through the airport had been distributed to the needy crowd at its gates."

what the hell are these officials doing holding up relief from the needy crowd at the airport? are they crooked or just plain stupid?

if people are dying of thirst and hunger and officials are hoarding or holding up reliefs, they and their bosses deserve to have 2x4 's rammed up their asses.

http://news.yahoo.com/aquino-under-pressure-over-typhoon-aid-u-carrier-024020592--sector.html

aquino under pressure over typhoon aid, usa carrier on its way.

reuters by stuart grudgings and andrew r. c. marshall.

tacloban, philippines (reuters). philippine president benigno aquino was under growing pressure on thursday to speed up the distribution of food, water and medicine to desperate survivors of a powerful typhoon and to revive paralyzed local governments.

while international relief efforts have picked up, many petrol station owners whose businesses were spared have refused to reopen, leaving little fuel for trucks needed to move supplies and medical teams around the devastated areas nearly a week after typhoon haiyan struck.

"there are still bodies on the road," said alfred romualdez, mayor of tacloban, a city of 220, 000 people reduced to rubble in worst-hit leyte province."it's scary. there is a request from a community to come and collect bodies. they say it's five or 10. when we get there, it's 40."

the scarcity of trucks presents grim options."the choice is to use the same truck either to distribute food or collect bodies," he added.

outside taclaban, officials began burying about 300 bodies in a mass grave on thursday. a larger grave will be dug for 1, 000, city administrator tecson john lim told reuters.

the city government remains decimated, with just 70 workers compared to 2, 500 normally, he added. many were killed, injured, lost family or were simply too overcome with grief to work.

the uss george washington aircraft carrier was due to arrive in the philippines on thursday evening, with 5, 000 sailors and more than 80 aircraft. japan was also planning to send up to 1, 000 troops as well as naval vessels and aircraft, in what could be tokyo's biggest postwar military deployment.

aquino in spotlight.

aquino has been on the defensive over his handling of the storm given warnings of its projected strength and the risk of a storm surge, and now the pace of relief efforts.

he has said the death toll might have been higher had it not been for the evacuation of people and the readying of relief supplies, but survivors from worst-affected areas say they had little warning of a tsunami-like wall of water.

the philippines formally asked washington for help on saturday, a day after the storm slammed into cities and towns in the central philippines, the usa state department said.

aquino has also stoked debate over the extent of the casualties, citing a much lower death toll than the 10, 000 estimated by local authorities. official confirmed deaths stood at 2, 357 on thursday, a figure aid workers expect to rise.

city administrator lim, who on sunday estimated 10, 000 likely died in tacloban alone, said aquino may be deliberately downplaying casualties."of course he doesn't want to create too much panic. perhaps he is grappling with whether he wants to reduce the panic so that life goes on," he said.

the preliminary number of missing as of thursday, according to the red cross, remained at 22, 000. it has cautioned that that number could include people who have since been located.

tacloban's main convention center, the astrodome, has become temporary home for hundreds of people living in abject squalor. families cooked meals amid the stench of garbage and [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109). debris was strewn along rows of seats rising from dark pools of stagnant water.

"we went into the astrodome and asked who is in charge and just got blank stares," said joe lowry, a spokesman for the international organisation for migration, which is setting up camps for the displaced.

survivors formed long queues under searing sunshine, and then torrential rain, to charge mobile phones from the only power source available: a city hall generator. others started to repair motorbikes and homes. a rescue worker cleared debris near a wall with the spray-painted words "we need food".

more the 544, 600 people have been displaced and nearly 12 percent of the population affected, the united nations said. but many areas still have not received aid.

"it's true, there are still areas that we have not been able to get to where people are in desperate need," u. n. humanitarian chief valerie amos told reporters in manila."i very much hope that in the next 48 hours, that that will change significantly.

"yes, i do feel that we have let people down because we have not been able to get in more quickly."

anger and frustration have been boiling over as essential supplies fail to reach many of those in need. food and other goods have stacked up at the airport in tacloban, for instance.

some areas have appeared to teeter near anarchy amid widespread looting of shops and warehouses for food and water.

medical charity medecins sans frontieres (msf) described a bleak situation in guiuan, home to 45, 000 people.

"people are living out in the open. the needs are immense and there are a lot of surrounding villages that are not yet covered by any aid organizations," alexis moens, msf's assessment team leader, said in a statement.

as darkness fell on wednesday, philippine special forces held back hundreds of people, many of whom had walked for hours to reach the airport and then waited for days with little or no food or water.

when asked how she and her four children endured three days of waiting in searing heat and torrential downpours, marivic badilla. 41, held up a small battered umbrella."we have been sheltering under this," she said, tears streaming down her face.

the overall financial cost of the destruction was hard to assess. initial estimates varied widely, with a report from german-based cedim forensic disaster analysis putting the total at $8 billion to $19 billion.

(additional reporting by rosemarie francisco and eric dela cruz in manila, and phil stewart in washington. writing by jason szep. editing by dean yates and nick macfie)

GoodEnough

11-14-13, 09:05

Econo Tech

11-14-13, 09:22

The total incompetence of this government, and it's apparent indifference to the suffering of it's own people is simply staggering. Turns out the president's vaunted pre-positioning of vital supplies was complete bullshit. Also turns out he never ordered evacuations, merely suggested that people leave.

The following story, which illustrates the ineptitude of this ridiculous excuse for a government is poignant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/world/asia/at-a-philippine-hospital-survivors-face-quiet-despair.html?ref=international-home

GEBut, well, even in Singapore, the amount of Pinoys standing up for PNoy, on his leadership, his 'courage' to visit the place, and his 'cleanliness' as just sufficient reasons for him not to be berated.

Though, as I said before, a Filipino voice has started saying "donate directly, not via the govt" and then the PH Govt says, items that are routed through them are the only items duty exempt, all else taxable.

PS: I wonder how long he will take, before PNoy blames this one also on Gloria, as he even recently did so, as recent as this June, for the Economic woes of Philippines.

FreebieFan

11-14-13, 10:23

this obviously relates to the criticism of aquino's leadership:

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/526811/ochoa-almendras-now-in-charge-of-yolanda-relief-ndrrmc-chief

the ndrrm coordinating council was retained by the military in the 2010 law despite appeals by ngos and some scholars to move it into the office of the president. now it looks like del rosario, who worked for the military as executive director of the council, pissed off aquino. and so now control appears to have been moved to a couple of aquino's lieutenants. problem is, they probably know squat about disaster management. but perhaps it is irrelevant given how many other responsible officials appear to have performed poorly. lots of blame to go around here, and they are unlikely to fix their systems and perform well in subsequent disasters until fundamental changes occur in the institutional structures that perpetuate control with the oligarchy of families that run the country. in other words, the 2010 law theoretically devolved responsibility down to coordinating councils in the provinces, cities, and municipalities, but people down in the lgus either doubt their actual authority to act or resist being directed from the national government in what they see as an unfunded mandate. these performance failures were predictable.the ineptness of the government is being overshadowed (at least in the international media) by the arrival of the americans both as conquering heroes and new colonisers. brigadier general kennedy, leader of relief, is looking like he will be the savior.

now obviously the americans aside from being humanitarians are happy to help to spite china. but what happens when people realise that the americans can help / will help / do help and will stay to help. a hankering for the good old days?

the president and binay are both dithering when its a time for bold clear decisive leadership. remember mayor giuliani after 9/11. he knew what he was doing and he showed everyone he knew what he was doing.

when the mess starts to get cleared, the politicians will all surface, poke their heads over the parapet and tell the nation how they alone saved the day. and then in true filipino back biting fashion, others will try to bring them down. meanwhile juan will be asked to vote soon for the wankers who can talk a good game, but can't exactly organise squat.

OralFanatic

11-14-13, 11:20

The ineptness of the government is being overshadowed (at least in the international media) by the arrival of the Americans both as conquering heroes and new colonisers. Brigadier General Kennedy, leader of relief, is looking like he will be the savior.I don't necessarily agree with the 'conquering' part of the American arrival but there is no doubt it will mark a dramatic change in relief efforts.

USA Brig Gen. Paul Kennedy promised a response akin to the widely praised USA military one after the 2004 Asian tsunami, when fleets of helicopters dropped water and food to hundreds of isolated communities."You are not just going to see Marines and a few planes and some helicopters," Kennedy said."You will see the entire Pacific Command respond to this crisis."

Sammon

11-14-13, 17:08

LukeSkywalker

11-14-13, 17:25

Back in the 19th century when the US Navy was running on diesel fuel and coal, it did need land bases in the Pacific for supply and maintenance of the Pacific fleet. That was the main reason for the US to purchase the Hawaii islands and to fight the Spanish out of the Philippines.

After kicking out the Spanish, the US took over the Phil as her colony. Japan seized the Phil during WWII and was later driven off by Gen Douglas McArthur. After WWII, the Philippines petitioned US congress a few times to be annexed as a state into the US, but they were all declined, primarily due to Filipinos' lack of intelligence, drive and morals.

The US bought Hawaii long before that. I don't see how Hawaiians, being the same Polynesian stock, were any better than their neighbors in the Philippines such that the US had to pay a very high price to buy over their islands, but their location was smack in the center of the Pacific with a deep harbor in Honolulu, enabling the US' diesel-driven fleet full coverage of the entire ocean.

Without the US' presence, Japan would have quickly taken over and enslaved Hawaiians in WWII just like the Philippines. Remember Japan' s sneaky attack on Pearl Harbor in 1942? All they needed was 1 ship load of soldiers and they could have taken all Hawaii islands over.

After WWII US aircraft carrier fleets and submarines were all designed to run with atomic reactors. There is not much need to supply them frequently with massive amount of diesel fuel like before. The US no longer needed land base in the Philippines, and upon demands for much higher lease costs, abandoned her bases at Subic bay and Clark in the 80's.

Of course, having US helicopters from aircraft carriers throw water pouches and instant food to the hungry crowds gains lots of quick credit, trust and confidence for the US, a very cheap marketing campaign, but something China and Russia do not have the means to do.

Asian countries need the US far more than the US needs them. They need the US' superior weapons and technologies to fight off Imperialist China who's brazenly robbing them of their islands and territorial waters full of oil, gas and fishing resources.

The US will soon have to shed her youngsters' blood again to help The Phil, Vietnam, Malaysia, even Australia, japan and South Korea, fight off the stupid, greedy, arrogant Chinese bully, who's been acting way out of line recently.

As of 2012, 1 division of US Marines has been sent to Australia to cooperate with Australian defense forces to dig in a defense line on the North coast.

I don't necessarily agree with the 'conquering' part of the American arrival but there is no doubt it will mark a dramatic change in relief efforts.

USA Brig Gen. Paul Kennedy promised a response akin to the widely praised USA military one after the 2004 Asian tsunami, when fleets of helicopters dropped water and food to hundreds of isolated communities."You are not just going to see Marines and a few planes and some helicopters," Kennedy said."You will see the entire Pacific Command respond to this crisis."

LukeSkywalker

11-14-13, 17:41

I hope Catholic Charities and The phil's Catholic church, have enough trained manpower, resources, means and networking to distribute aids quickly to the needy.

US Navy' commanders should instruct their air crews to throw aids directly on the population and into churches' properties liek they did before in the Adaman sea tsunami.

When the needs for victims' survival are so large and so urgent as in this typhoon Yolanda disaster, any means or any organizations should be used to fill the needs quickly first. Then afterward, I hope the bros will analyze the effectiveness, efficiency and failures of various organizations and charities, and let the rest of the world know the results.

I think in Phi best thing to do is distribute aid through the church. Phi people are generally afraid of the church. They are not afraid of government, police, military.

If the our military aid is air dropped local corrupt leaders will hoard it and sell to people. There needs to be a distribution system so the needy people get it. I hope in this time of need people do not keep the aid for themselves rather share it with others.

Pete Benetar

11-14-13, 19:04

The US bought Hawaii long before that. I don't see how Hawaiians, being the same Polynesian stock, were any better than their neighbors in the Philippines such that the US had to pay a very high price to buy over their islands, but their location was smack in the center of the Pacific with a deep harbor in Honolulu, enabling the US' diesel-driven fleet full coverage of the entire ocean.

As of 2012, 1 division of US Marines has been sent to Australia to cooperate with Australian defense forces to dig in a defense line on the North coast.The US never really "bought" the PI, nor Hawaii for that matter; not as in a land purchase agreement such as the Seward Alaskan deal or the Louisiana land purchase. The 20 million USD paid circa 1898 was more to settle the Spanish American war in part simply because funding the war itself was going to cost that much or more. Hawaii in contrast was "purchased" by individuals (US, European) who negotiated private sales of real estate with individual chieftains. The US did annex and later incorporate HI into statehood, but by the 20th century most "Hawaiians" were ancestral descendants of immigrants and not truly Hawaiian nationality. So by the time "democracy" and voting were established in HI, the original tribal Hawaiians had lost all forms of power. HI has also always been worth much more to the US in strategic and commercial terms than PI ever has or will be. In the PI of course the US ended up killing quite a few pinoys to impose her rule. From the Spanish to US and Japan, pinoys have only been stepchildren and that's how their Govt and for that matter disaster management has evolved.

It will be interesting to see how much actual aid is delivered by the USN et al especially with the sequestration effects on the US military. The joint chiefs are howling about the US military in general losing all manner of combat preparedness, resources etc; will a humanitarian crisis in the PI get a meaningful response from the US govt and DOD?

Small correction on the Aussie based USMC; really that's an augmented battalion there, maybe a brigade in the coming years; just enough for a footprint, plant the flag and let the Aussies know we have their 6. I think we have about 1500 there now and a division is more like 15-20, 000.

OralFanatic

11-14-13, 20:56

though, as i said before, a filipino voice has started saying "donate directly, not via the govt" and then the ph govt says, items that are routed through them are the only items duty exempt, all else taxable.i was stunned to read et's comment but a quick check indicates it may (emphasis on may) have been a rumor and was quickly clarified that there would be no taxes on donated items. the customs commissioner, ruffy biazon, said it was a rumor started over a lufthansa shipment and that the relief goods were released immediately and exempted from taxes.

however, i did find that donated goods must be accompanied by paperwork and items of clothing will apparently be confirep001ed by the philippine department of social welfare and development (dswd). i'll assume these asshats think adding an additional, unnecessary step in the process will make things better. i've managed to talk to a few people in the tacloban area and there were 3 items they said they needed critically; food, water, and clothing. i was surprised there was no mention of shelter but i would also imagine filipinos are finding a way to shelter themselves; they are a resilient people. if the dswd is in fact fucking things up by confirep001ing clothing, they need to be shot.

http://customs.gov.ph/news/2013/11/12/processingreleasing-of-foreign-donated-shipments/

GoodEnough

11-14-13, 23:36

Socker

11-15-13, 02:48

Yo Gents, I hope I'm not the only perv to donate to the relief effort of the Philippines. The tragedy is catastrophic and they need help badly. I donated a couple of bills to https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/donate/onetime.cfm 2 days ago. When I donated the funds they had a box you could check stating that your donation was strictly for the Philippines. Now I don't see that box. I called them to complain and they said it was a technical glitch. Well I don't know if I can recommend DWB but if you look around there are other options.

I hope there are guys here that can afford to help these people in their time in hell and maybe make it survivable. These people in Tacloban and a huge surrounding area have no water, food, or a roof over there head. The survivors (many of them) watched their loved ones die in the rushing waters. If they found their dead loved ones there is no where to bury them, we're talking thousands of dead bodies twisted in the mud and rubble, the survivors are left to sleep and starve in the same rubble.

This is beyond words to understand. I gave $200 and I will give another $200 in a week or so. To watch this disaster play out on CNN is heartbreaking, I feel really bad for every one of them. I never liked Anderson Cooper but he is doing a great (and I mean great) job, describing the hell the locals are going through. I have to say he is very impressive in this coverage. Before his reporting from the PI I thought he was just a talking head. I am stunned by the strengh of these people that live there. I hope all mongers can spare some dough for this cause.

Good luck to the survivors.

Econo Tech

11-15-13, 03:24

Good luck to the survivors.PS: to those not in the know, keep your criticism of Aquino's leadership within the expat crowd, or online.

As usual as many Filipinos are disgusted by his style, many more are madly ready to commit harakiri to defend PNoy's honour. After all, he took over from a dirty president (Arroyo) and he has cleaned out corruption, and of course, he lost his mother and that was a great reason to elect him in right?

And as usual the PH Church has waded in to not see his mistakes, but to glorify PNoy's good deeds, like being onsite, firing some govt officials. Not declaring Martial Law. Etc.

Here in SG, a local almost got beat up by Proud Filipinos, who don't believe anybody could have done a better job. Though it is 7 days since the disaster hit and nobody knows who is in control, nor did anybody own up to not preparing for a well-recognised Cat 5 storm.

And to add to the comedy, many Filipinos insist that the weather warning didn't warn of Storm surge, and that could have saved lives. Yah right.

Econo Tech

11-15-13, 03:32

I was stunned to read ET's comment but a quick check indicates it may (emphasis on may) have been a rumor and was quickly clarified that there would be no taxes on donated items. The Customs Commissioner, Ruffy Biazon, said it was a rumor started over a Lufthansa shipment and that the relief goods were released immediately and exempted from taxes.In Singapore the PH Embassy has reminded to route all donations via DWSD, to avoid taxation. No, I didn't want to bother asking too much details.

Of course, the comedy is, those kababayan boxes are rarely taxed. So many are anyway not bothering and sending stuff via the Kababayan boxes.

I remembered when I was stopped in NAIA years ago, and asked to pay tax for a old sound system I was taking to gift a church. The Officer did say if I had packed in normal boxes, he could have let me go, but I packed in the original boxes, and he didn't want to be seen inept if he didn't intercept it. Especially since a Foreigner was bringing in "taxable" items.

No kidding, when I told him the thing was worth not more than 100$, he made ma pay 10$ or so in taxes, I have the recipt. As he again, didn't want to be seen letting me go without any tax being levied.

That's the reality.

My Filipino friends are all shipping any relief stuff by LBC / AFreight, JollyB Box and the likes, knowing they will not be taxed, as they are all declared as 'personal effects'

Wicked Roger

11-15-13, 03:45

The coverage of the post-Yolanda disaster is massive, both in the international and local broadcast and print media. Many of the articles and programs express astonishment that no one from the government is in charge. It's only the enormity of the international relief effort that's offering any solace and assistance to the survivors. One Tacloban resident who survived the storm was quoted in Le Monde as saying that he thought the helicopters of the Philippine government were there to look at the scenery since they weren't being used to provide any assistance.

The bland indifference on the part of the national government to the suffering of it's own citizens is more than bewildering; it's incomprehensible.

GEA further depressing fact is that some think the international media is not telling the truth GE.

I was shown some Facebook posts shwoing a picture of Anderson Cooper and the lady anchor from one of the local news stations. She was quoted as saying "I don't know what he (ie A Cooper) is talking about"). Based on ths likley stupid post many pinays all believed the lady and felt that the government was doing a good job and the media were wrong and biased agianst Filipinos and the country (cpmpletely barmy IMHO). I did point out the girl that this was rubbish and the post was someone trying to deflect criticism etc but she said I was anti Filipino if I thought that and on the side of the international media (I also pointed out that much of the aid work and workers are foreign. Tho\is made her think!)

Again PNoy has been caught with his pants down, saying recently that the death toll was around 2000 when the BBC today quoted a sign in Tacloban that said the death in the city alone was 4500. And the President is asking the media to be fair (maybe a veiled reference to the local boys to "tow the government line or else"?)

Other educated pinays I know and meet are more forthcoming and outspoken. They understand the problems and allocate blame fairly IMHO and are saying the government will pay at the ballot box but what would the next lot of family dynasty politicians do?

As a post script and not on the subject of the typhoon but based on what some are saying, a recently article in the Inquirer about young Estrada complaining that the DOJ wanted his passport due to his alledged dealings in the pork barrel scam resulted in many (all negative) comments. One guys called hima "pig" and felt he should be in the "pig pen with all the others", was an interesting read and I was surprised to read such vitriole. As it was Estrada left the country saying he would return soon (watch this space).

LukeSkywalker

11-15-13, 06:20

Lots of heart-breaking images:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/14/world/asia/typhoon-haiyan/

GoodEnough

11-15-13, 07:50

Wicked Roger

11-15-13, 08:06

FreebieFan

11-15-13, 08:46

Just watched an Anderson Cooper video in which he interviewed the US Marine Corps General, who lamented that he didn't have enough trucks to distribute relief supplies. When questioned, he indicated that the Government of the Philippines has provided a total of 8 trucks! Eight trucks! What the hell is the matter with the government here. In another video Cooper said that the people here are used to being let down by their government, and in fact have decades of experience in realizing that their government will do nothing for them. In this case, he said, the Government is living down to expectations.

GEOn another mongers forum lots of comments and kudos to Anderson for reporting the truth.

He made a well reasoned rebuttal to Korina Sanchez by showing what he had said, in response to her questioning his statement as to whether hed actually seen any Philippines government people in Tacloban. He suggested Korina go there and see what he had seen. Korina, well known for being the type of journalist who says, then checks later. A quite unpleasant lady up close and personal.

Anderson a real thorn in the side of Philippines at the moment, purely for saying what he sees.

BBC is equally is equally factual and brutally honest about the lack of aid and the suffering of the people.

And in response, The Pres says he would like to see more "uplifting stories" Anything to deflect from the torrents of criticism.

GE[/QUOTE]

Red Kilt

11-15-13, 08:57

He made a well reasoned rebuttal to Korina Sanchez by showing what he had said, in response to her questioning his statement as to whether hed actually seen any Philippines government people in Tacloban. He suggested Korina go there and see what he had seen. Korina, well known for being the type of journalist who says, then checks later. A quite unpleasant lady up close and personal.Remember of course that her husband is Mar Roxas, the Secretary of the Department of Interior and Local Government (DILG) which is one of the front-line agencies that will be blamed for the failure of support systems.

Mar Roxas is trying to position himself to make a run for the Presidency in 2016, but this disaster might see him fall of the track.

I want to know where is VP Binay? No sign nor sound of him anywhere.

I guess he is another of the invisible leaders.

Socker

11-15-13, 09:22

Remember of course that her husband is Mar Roxas, the Secretary of the Department of Interior and Local Government (DILG) which is one of the front-line agencies that will be blamed for the failure of support systems.

Mar Roxas is trying to position himself to make a run for the Presidency in 2016, but this disaster might see him fall of the track.

I want to know where is VP Binay? No sign nor sound of him anywhere.

I guess he is another of the invisible leaders.

Where is Manny Pacquiao? Mr Philippines himself.

The USA should just send over Silvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger and clean it up. In 1 hour and 50 minutes.

FreebieFan

11-15-13, 10:04

I want to know where is VP Binay? No sign nor sound of him anywhere.

I guess he is another of the invisible leaders.I think his invisibility will be his trump card. We both know he will say he was busy working behind the scenes, and didn't want to take any attention from the President. Hes probabyl got his Boy Scouts packing noodles.

Cunning Stunt

11-15-13, 11:50

Where is Manny Pacquiao? Mr Philippines himself.

The USA should just send over Silvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger and clean it up. In 1 hour and 50 minutes.Manny wanted to put in an appearance, apparently, but Freddie Roach wouldn't let him out of his gym in Gensan. When you are in the final stages of training for an important fight (probably his last if he gets beat) , distractions are to be avoided, and he listens to his coach. I'm sure Rocky would understand.

Wicked Roger

11-15-13, 16:19

I think his invisibility will be his trump card. We both know he will say he was busy working behind the scenes, and didn't want to take any attention from the President. Hes probabyl got his Boy Scouts packing noodles.Maybe but was not invisible in Zambo when the MILF attacked and royally stuffed that p with his claims of brokering peace . Many said he did it as he felt he was ignored and was a clinical political move nothing to do with helping the poor buggers caught up in the violence.

Maybe this time PNoy has told him to keep quiet and let others fail and show ineptitude so then PNoy can claim that many in his Cabinet are not fir for the presidency so he should say an extra term LOL.

Econo Tech

11-15-13, 17:24

I think his invisibility will be his trump card. We both know he will say he was busy working behind the scenes, and didn't want to take any attention from the President. Hes probabyl got his Boy Scouts packing noodles.And some relief goods have apparently turned up with VP Binay's 'label' stuck there. And somebody posted the picture in FB. Whether it is a recycled photo or really a new one, I don't know

BTW, the Lopez family chartered the AN 225, to fly in some stuff for their own project and somehow the natives went all out thanking Russia (though the plane is Ukranian) and even calling on Gods to ensure the safety of the Russians. Damn, the natives don't even bother to read the news stating the delivery was planned ahead and only for some transmission upgrade, not to do anything with Tacloban,

Wonder why the politicos keep winning? That's why. Once swayed, or a suggestion X person is doign the right thing, the rest don't bother to see if it is real. Including many crying out for Imelda to come and save them.

Econo Tech

11-15-13, 17:25

Soapy Smith

11-16-13, 03:21

Fret not. Still come next election, the natives will dutifully vote in again those blundering fools or their appointed subjects.Because they will have been paid to do so.

LifeIsABeach

11-16-13, 04:22

The politicians will appear during the rebuilding phase when contracts are awarded from the donated millions. They do not want to miss out on their cuts and must be rubbing their palms as they are about to get filthy rich quickly.

FreebieFan

11-18-13, 08:16

Fret not. Still come next election, the natives will dutifully vote in again those blundering fools or their appointed subjects.It starts already.

http://technology.inquirer.net/30669/binay-lambasted-online-for-epal-relief-bags

You can imagine the thought process in Juans house."The VP saved me from hunger so it means hes a good man so I should vote from him.

Logic says he probably borrowed some food from an international aid agency's contribution, paid for the cute little bags, wasted time in delivering the aid by having it packed in his cute little bags and he thus hopes to be the president by doing this. Some peoples ambitions both know no bounds and know no limits on greed.

Wjmpsr

11-18-13, 16:55

I watched a report on aid in the Tacloban area earlier today on Al Jazeera. It was very well done and not too too sensational or full of accusations. At one point the reporter showed a family pack of food one of the local recipients was complaining about. A bloated can of sardines (which means do not eat). And a kilo or so of rice which was old, yellow, and apparently had gotten wet then dried as it turned to powder once in water.

BrainDrain

11-18-13, 23:18

I've started seeing my FB pinay friends starting to fall for the line about calling on the world to stop global warming which they say caused the typhoon.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=did-climate-change-cause-typhoon-haiyan

I love seeing the posts that they spread, about some vitamin that causes weight loss, super fitness and long life.

FreebieFan

11-19-13, 01:39

Wonder why the politicos keep winning? That's why. Once swayed, or a suggestion X person is doign the right thing, the rest don't bother to see if it is real. Including many crying out for Imelda to come and save them.Imelda, like Binay has been invisible. She was apparently in hospital with high blood sugar. All that lechon will ventually get to you.

Her family "kept the news about the typhoon from her " (now who believes that sweet nonsense ). And on finally hearing there was a typhoon, she demanded to be let out of hospital immediately.

Her family talked her into staying.

What a lovely full of crap story.

Econo Tech

11-19-13, 02:14

Imelda, like Binay has been invisible. She was apparently in hospital with high blood sugar. All that lechon will ventually get to you.

Her family "kept the news about the typhoon from her " (now who believes that sweet nonsense ). And on finally hearing there was a typhoon, she demanded to be let out of hospital immediately.

Her family talked her into staying.

What a lovely full of crap story.Pst, the above will win sympathy votes, when Bong Bong comes to power as president. Trust me. The natives, atleast the majority of the voting natives, are swayed by anything that can sound emotional.

It starts already.

http://technology.inquirer.net/30669/binay-lambasted-online-for-epal-relief-bags

You can imagine the thought process in Juans house."The VP saved me from hunger so it means hes a good man so I should vote from him.

Logic says he probably borrowed some food from an international aid agency's contribution, paid for the cute little bags, wasted time in delivering the aid by having it packed in his cute little bags and he thus hopes to be the president by doing this. Some peoples ambitions both know no bounds and know no limits on greed.Still the bottom line is, the poor are not going to put logic into asking "whose money it was". They will still vote in those. Unless those powers-be. As been mooted, switch to a more transparent parliamentary system where each representative is responsible for his ward, and only his ward, and ministers etc are responsible.

Look at those jumping at Binay's defence. Saying it was from another disaster. They miss the logic that regardless, benefiting from any disaster is a crime. Then again, in PH Law, they may have a million loop hole to get away with it.

BTW, you also know Binay has corruption charges pending? As is his wife and daughter? That didn't' stop people voting them in. Right? So how?

FreebieFan

11-19-13, 03:31

BTW, you also know Binay has corruption charges pending? As is his wife and daughter? That didn't' stop people voting them in. Right? So how?Yes, he has several from his first and second terms. And his wife has from her single term.

I went to his daughters wedding which was well over 100 tables. Not bad to afford that on a then Mayors salary.

Wicked Roger

11-19-13, 06:38

Only in the Philippines could this happen.

Kris Aquino was batting for the other side and her side lost, Roxas is clearly a Presidents man. The horrifying commnet in this article (ha; f was down) is that the Mayor was given only 2 trucks! GE's comment from the US General said he got 8 trucks. Clearly helping was not a priority but trying to score points against an incumbent oppostion memeber is LOL.

Only in PI!

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/529621/roxas-muscling-romualdez-out-of-tacloban-city-hall

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/529883/aquino-roxas-romualdez-strike-deal

And Roxas has the the radio / TV show wife (Korina Sanchez) who thought CNN and Anderson Cooper were not being fair. So she will be giving some more fair reporting on this LOL.

Radical Guy

11-19-13, 21:48

Wicked Roger

11-19-13, 22:47

One might speculate that because of the sudden rash of homelessness and financial catastrophe in Leyte, we might see a massive influx of fresh pussy in the Manila and AC markets, thereby increasing supply and lowering prices. What do you all think?

RGSomeone in the AC thread said that bars expect an influx of new ladies as a result of the supertyphoon. Manila not sure but AC is definitely a magnet RG.

Member #4351

11-19-13, 22:49

Wicked Roger

11-19-13, 23:06

I would guess a massive influx of foreign military, U. N. And NGOs in Cebu completely ruining P4P and filling up hotels and restaurants as in Port au Prince, Haiti. I really hope I am wrong on this as my favorite destination will be destroyed.Sitting in my 'office' the other day David I did notice a larger than normal amount of westerners some with huge backsides (thus proving why we prefer Asian women). Lots of new faces some with name badges!

While my 'office' is a small sample you know that it does attract lots of new people so best to assume this is happening. I hope the NGOs focus on relief help and don't start doing more of the IJM stuff as that will ruin your / my and others favourite destination even further. My usual hotel was also much busier.

Pip Jaeger

11-19-13, 23:41

Not to seem insensitive, but this IS a mongering forum. Any thoughts about what, if any, effect the big typhoon may have on the mongering market? One might speculate that because of the sudden rash of homelessness and financial catastrophe in Leyte, we might see a massive influx of fresh pussy in the Manila and AC markets, thereby increasing supply and lowering prices. What do you all think?

RGAs I already mentioned in the Cebu and AC threads, an influx of girls will certainly happen. However, I don't think you'll see any price decreases, if anything they'll most likely ply on your sympathies and probably try to get as much as they can. One girl I met last night is awaiting her 19 year old sister to arrive from Leyte via Cebu. She asked if I would be interested in seeing her; of course I'll make another donation for the cause, LOL.

I would guess a massive influx of foreign military, U. N. And NGOs in Cebu completely ruining P4P and filling up hotels and restaurants as in Port au Prince, Haiti. I really hope I am wrong on this as my favorite destination will be destroyed.Good point David, but me thinks you're just worried about competition at the Marriot's buffet, it was bad enough with those fat white NGO ladies last time, LOL. Hopefully they'll stay out on Mactan as the airport seems to be the hub / primary staging area for the relief efforts or maybe the Radisson, it was almost empty when I left and was undergoing extensive repairs too.

Econo Tech

11-20-13, 03:34

And Roxas has the the radio / TV show wife (Korina Sanchez) who thought CNN and Anderson Cooper were not being fair. So she will be giving some more fair reporting on this LOL.Of course, she is objective, and has won enough sympathy votes. So much so many Pinoys have started to curse Anderson Cooper for making life miserable for Filipinos. Etc. Etc. Including some Letter from a retired Govt Servant who said "I will bear the pain of Anderson Cooper's bad reporting, for the good of my people."

That wins votes, my friend.

Cunning Stunt

11-20-13, 07:35

not to seem insensitive, but this is a mongering forum. any thoughts about what, if any, effect the big typhoon may have on the mongering market? one might speculate that because of the sudden rash of homelessness and financial catastrophe in leyte, we might see a massive influx of fresh pussy in the manila and ac markets, thereby increasing supply and lowering prices. what do you all think?bound to see an influx of homeless families hitting cebu city and many perhaps heading for the ncr, which will mean more itinerant beggars on the streets, many with nothing to sell except their offspring. a human tragedy. also an increase in [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) with many of the women and girls fetching up in casas, bars or working the streets but not entirely voluntarily.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10444849/typhoon-haiyan-relief-effort-we-are-failing-thousands-of-girls-at-risk-of-[CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)-or-trafficking-says-justine-greening.html

Soapy Smith

11-20-13, 09:23

I would guess a massive influx of foreign military, U. N. And NGOs in Cebu completely ruining P4P and filling up hotels and restaurants as in Port au Prince, Haiti. I really hope I am wrong on this as my favorite destination will be destroyed.Recent history with American CIA, Secret Service, and State Department employees suggest that some among their ranks also like pussy. They always have. They will, of course, be accompanied by women colleagues who might look dimly on their prurient pursuits. Even NGO workers may be human. There's a recent book out (*Chasing Chaos*) by an American woman, probably 30ish, describing her ten years in humanitarian NGO aid work. I haven't read it yet but probably will. Among other things, she apparently argues that most NGO workers are humanly "flawed"; they are not angels, despite the stereotypes. I have heard that she offers some background on the ways that aid workers often party hardy and do short-term hookups as a part of relieving their own stress and exposure to trauma. I think the jury is still out about the effects these groups will have.

We might, on the other hand, fear the longer-term effects these foreign professionals will have on lifting the Philippines out of poverty, and thus removing the conditions that lead all the SWTs into plying the trade. Fortunately, the track record for professionals from "the North" lifting Third World countries out of poverty is not strong. Ultimately, if the light bulb doesn't want to be changed, it doesn't matter how many shrinks try to twist it out of the socket. Development in the Philippines, and all over the developing world, hinges much more on the locals than the foreign change agents.

Sorry to kick sand in the face of Westerners in this forum who do development work; I guess I am one of them. But hopefully most of us realize that our job security rests much more with policy makers in our own countries than with much of anything in our interactions with the locals.

Econo Tech

11-21-13, 02:12

Pete Benetar

11-21-13, 02:18

I would guess a massive influx of foreign military, U. N. And NGOs in Cebu completely ruining P4P and filling up hotels and restaurants as in Port au Prince, Haiti. I really hope I am wrong on this as my favorite destination will be destroyed.I don't think the numbers of military will ever be that overwhelming, not American anyways. There being routed to different areas and able commanders will want to keep troopers on a short leash in an already chaotic environment. You may know Haiti better then me but the few times I've been there the list of cons is so long I'd be running out of days of the week counting them. The regulars down in PAP were notably more fed up with UN folk who were there in big numbers and flush with cash which they were seemingly obliged to give away at quasi western rates for satisfying their libido. Nowhere close to the PI, IMO. Add the PI is much larger as well. Even if US gets "invited" back to PI I can't imagine a reopened Subic as she once was unless we empty out the Korean peninsula which of course is not going to happen anytime soon. US DoD is facing big cuts and still have to extricate from US self absorbed mess SW Asia.

Hutsori

11-21-13, 04:44

BTW, for those who don't believe Filipinos can get super emotional, do read the comments. The comments are more hilarious than the actual news item!

http://adobochronicles.com/2013/11/20/philippines-disqualified-from-beauty-pageants-for-the-next-two-years/Brilliant!

Me: "Baby, did you hear the sad news? The Philippines is banned from competing in all international beauty pageants for the next 2 years."

Girl: "What? What?"I read aloud the "report" and she spontaneously combusted.

If I fess up that it's only a joke should I fear for my life?

Econo Tech

11-21-13, 07:19

Brilliant!

I read aloud the "report" and she spontaneously combusted.

If I fess up that it's only a joke should I fear for my life?I am sure there is a PNG notice against you. Forget visiting PH.

It is only a matter of time before a prompt senate resolution is passed, condemning you (yes, you, don't' ask the logic of shooting the messenger.)

Welcome to PH.

Starchild2012

11-21-13, 14:58

I would guess a massive influx of foreign military, U. N. And NGOs in Cebu completely ruining P4P and filling up hotels and restaurants as in Port au Prince, Haiti. I really hope I am wrong on this as my favorite destination will be destroyed.You are right. They ain't going no where. Its not a relief and rescue mission but creating a base for American empire. Like they did in Haiti. Everyone must read the below article and today UK is sending its biggest warship to the region. One of the biggest aircraft carriers from US is already there.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-military-continues-massive-build-up-in-philippine-disaster-zone-took-over-air-traffic-in-tacloban/5358799

Washington has deployed a massive military force to the region. The nuclear powered aircraft carrier USS George Washington, with 5, 000 sailors and 80 aircraft, is in the Leyte Gulf, along with its strike group of two guided-missile cruisers, two guided-missile destroyers, a cargo ship, an oceanographic survey ship and a submarine tender. These are to be joined by 3 amphibious warfare ships and 2 littoral combat ships. Some 850 US troops are on the ground in Leyte and are to be joined by an additional 1, 000 US Marines in the next two days.

Joint Task Force 505, under the command of Marine Corps Lt. Gen. John E. Wissler, has set up headquarters for the US forces in Camp Aguinaldo, the military headquarters of the Philippine Army.

While this build-up is referred to as 'providing assistance, ' it is clear that the US military is just not 'assisting' their Philippine counterparts, but commanding them. US forces are operating the air traffic control tower at the Tacloban airport, controlling which flights are allowed to land and take off there.

'We are controlling 250 ops (operations) per day, ' USA Air Force Master Sgt. Clinton Dykes told the US military publication Stars and Stripes on November 15. The number of operations has increased significantly since then.

The Philippine military is being deployed as armed crowd control in the city of Tacloban, implementing a de facto system of martial law, with an 8 pm–6 am curfew. The hundreds of armed military and police patrolling streets are further supplemented by the armed private guards who defend the homes and property of the wealthy.

Econo Tech

11-22-13, 03:12

While this build-up is referred to as 'providing assistance, ' it is clear that the US military is just not 'assisting' their Philippine counterparts, but commanding them. US forces are operating the air traffic control tower at the Tacloban airport, controlling which flights are allowed to land and take off there.Well, it is fair, that the US use these opportunities to hone their skills.

Post 2004, a few Asian countries do regular exercises with USAF, flying in their FLY-away ATC, first delivery of road clearing crew / fork lifts / dozers etc. And letting them simulate a disaster relief op. Which, if PH govt had asked US Govt as the shit hit the ceiling (I. E. The day the Typhoon hit) , the US crew would have been more than happy to put practice to use.

Then again, the PH govt sort of sat on it for days, till others had to nudge them that winning the upcoming mayoral election is ok, but not sacrificing the people in lieu.

Hutsori

11-22-13, 05:56

Which, if PH govt had asked US Govt as the shit hit the ceiling (I. E. The day the Typhoon hit) , the US crew would have been more than happy to put practice to use.I'm not here to defend the Philippine government but reports of the devastation didn't begin to arrive until Saturday. The first American team, led by a USMC colonel from the embassy's Joint Military Assistance Group (JUSMAGPHIL) , was in Tacloban on Sunday. This group did the assessment that was provided to Pacific Command in Hawaii and the Pentagon and then orders to 7th Fleet, etc. were sent.

That the relief team, currently the size of a battalion, is led by a lieutenant general (3 stars) , a rank that commands an army such 8th Army in Korea or a fleet such as 7th Fleet in Japan, demonstrates the seriousness of the mission. Lt Gen Wissler is the commanding general of III Marine Expeditionary Force (III MEF) based in Okinawa.

Another commentator here stated: "Its not a relief and rescue mission but creating a base for American empire." Bollocks.

Econo Tech

11-22-13, 08:21

I'm not here to defend the Philippine government but reports of the devastation didn't begin to arrive until Saturday. The first American team, led by a USMC colonel from the embassy's Joint Military Assistance Group (JUSMAGPHIL) , was in Tacloban on Sunday. This group did the assessment that was provided to Pacific Command in Hawaii and the Pentagon and then orders to 7th Fleet, etc. were sent.Errr. Sort of everybody, other than the PH govt knew what havoc a Cat 4 storm can create, so much so, the USN is supposed to have pre-positioned their survey ship even before the Typhoon hit.

The Military Sealift Command-operated USNS Bowditch (T-AGS 62) , a USA Navy vessel purposely built to survey the seafloor, and one of the first vessels on scene in the Philippines. This ship was actually anchored in the Philippines immediately before the storm hit and had sortied in advance.

My point is, the whole world knew what will happen, except PNoy and his excellent team. Then they blamed it on the Storm Surge. Surge or no surge, they must have evac'd the place clean.

After all, the overwhelming majority of the educated masses believe he left Tacloban and Leyte to go to hell as they were not under his friend's rule (I. E Marcos' controlled areas.)

It is fair in Politics, says most of the educated masses, knowing what happened and is happening. And Pnoy can rest assured his friends of Team PNoy will be the next powers-be in that area.

OralFanatic

11-22-13, 11:10

You are right. They ain't going no where. Its not a relief and rescue mission but creating a base for American empire. Like they did in Haiti. Everyone must read the below article and today UK is sending its biggest warship to the region. One of the biggest aircraft carriers from US is already there.

While this build-up is referred to as 'providing assistance, ' it is clear that the US military is just not 'assisting' their Philippine counterparts, but commanding them. US forces are operating the air traffic control tower at the Tacloban airport, controlling which flights are allowed to land and take off there.Wow. Are there still US military forces in Haiti? No, they left in 2010; all of them.

Regarding the temporary control tower / radar system; does anyone in the Philippine military (or private sector) have any training on this equipment? No doubt the volume of aircraft coming in to Tacloban has surged and from the sounds of it. 80% to 90% are US military aircraft. When you are contributing 90% of the hardware, you get to run the show. With the safety of my American brothers and sisters on the line, as well as the billions of American taxpayer funded hardware, I don't see this happening any other way.

Washington did not 'deploy' a massive military force to the region; we were already there. The region is called Asia and we've had hardware and ass on the line in Asia for as long as I've been alive.

Sam 14

11-22-13, 11:37

I don't pretend to know what's going on with US/Phil relations because I don't, but Naome Klein talks about that kind of behavior in her excellent book The Shock Doctrine, the Rise Of Disaster Capitalism.

You are right. They ain't going no where. Its not a relief and rescue mission but creating a base for American empire. Like they did in Haiti. Everyone must read the below article and today UK is sending its biggest warship to the region. One of the biggest aircraft carriers from US is already there.

[url]http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-military-continues-massive-build-up-in-philippine-disaster-zone-took-over-air-traffic-in-tacloban/.

Wjmpsr

11-22-13, 12:19

The USA has $16, 000, 000, 000 in debt. Just tell us to go, we can divert funding to fixing the healthcare website.

WestCoast1

11-23-13, 03:10

The nuclear powered aircraft carrier USS George Washington, with 5, 000 sailors and 80 aircraft, is in the Leyte Gulf, along with its strike group of two guided-missile cruisers, two guided-missile destroyers, a cargo ship, an oceanographic survey ship and a submarine tender. These are to be joined by 3 amphibious warfare ships and 2 littoral combat ships. Some 850 US troops are on the ground in Leyte and are to be joined by an additional 1, 000 US Marines in the next two days.All large aircraft carriers travel as a battle group. Almost always present with any such carrier are one or more surface ships such as cruisers, destroyers, cargo ships (UnRep must occur reguarly for all such ships) , and possibly a medical ship (hospital) , and boats (attack submarines). Massive aircraft carriers must be defended (by other ships / planes) at all times, and never travel alone. An military assault ship can produce tens of thousands of gallons of fresh water per day. You'd have to be crazy to say no to fresh water and dozens of helicopters that can bring it (and medivac victims).

While this build-up is referred to as 'providing assistance, ' it is clear that the US military is just not 'assisting' their Philippine counterparts, but commanding them. US forces are operating the air traffic control tower at the Tacloban airport, controlling which flights are allowed to land and take off there.

'We are controlling 250 ops (operations) per day, ' USA Air Force Master Sgt. Clinton Dykes told the US military publication Stars and Stripes on November 15. The number of operations has increased significantly since then.Oh THANKS BE TO GOD (that someone has taken the initiative)! It would be just as well if the British or Chinese navies could have provided similar assisstance had they been on hand. WHO provided the help is unimiportant. What is important is that the US military is suited for such relief efforts. What, you want relief efforts left to Filipino expertise?

The Philippine military is being deployed as armed crowd control in the city of Tacloban, implementing a de facto system of martial law, with an 8 pm–6 am curfew. The hundreds of armed military and police patrolling streets are further supplemented by the armed private guards who defend the homes and property of the wealthy.That's what they are good at. Let them keep crowd control with their presence. Those who control them are ill-equiped to handle this situation (as witnessed by the dozens of such news reports).

Crafty1

11-23-13, 07:56

Sorry for the generic post. I have searched throughout this forum and I still can't find the best places for the best beaches and the best place for mongering. It looks like the 2 are exclusive, is that the case with the Philipines? Boracacy doesn't seem to have a freelance scene, is that the case with everywhere. If you guys could list good areas I'll do further research in to them.

Thanks in advance.

Pete Benetar

11-24-13, 02:23

The USA has $16, 000, 000, 000 in debt.That was last week. http://www.usdebtclock.org/

GoodEnough

11-24-13, 02:42

I've just tuned into this debate, and it's entirely possible that I've missed something, but the comments I've read so far seem overly simplistic. As one who has followed the arguments here over the desirability or lack thereof of an enhanced US military presence, my conclusion is that the US has multiple motivations for it's massive response to the Haiyan disaster. First and foremost, the US did what it did because it's the only nation that could, given its military assets and the level of technology to which those assets have access. The need was undeniable, and without the sizable rapid deployment, more people would have died. A secondary benefit is doubtless the ability to demonstrate to China (and other Asian countries) its indispensability and perhaps it's continued primacy. That the US also wished to create a tacit argument for the expansion of its military presence here is also likely true, but it's at best a tertiary motivation.

The Philippine military is almost pathetically starved of equipment, supplies and expertise, as reiterated in the national and international press. It was, and remains incapable of providing meaningful support to the victims of the disaster. The government here is inept, indifferent and equally incapable of doing much but spewing empty rhetoric.

The desire of the US to re establish military hegemony in the Philippines is, in my opinion, over stated. It also ignores the huge deployment of military assets sent by other countries such as the UK and Japan, which responded by sending the largest ships available to them. I doubt anyone believes that these two countries seek any sort of long-term advantage in the country

Given the history of US-Philippines relations, ascribing some more sinister motivations to the US response is, I suppose, inevitable but in this case it's too facile and, I believe, incorrect. For the most part, I believe that the enormity of the entire international response was proportionate to the enormity of the calamity and was motivated by a genuine desire to do what the government is both in capable and unwilling to do.

GE

Cunning Stunt

11-24-13, 06:54

Manny beat the shit out of an American. All is well in the world and Filipinos have something to cheer about.

Wonder if he gets the babes to his right as part of his purse?

WestCoast1

11-24-13, 08:18

Wonder if he gets the babes to his right as part of his purse?He'll need to get after that before CS or AR gets to manhandle and photograph the girls getting jizzed.

Jp Slicky

11-24-13, 11:21

Actually we are 16. 7 T in the hole. Other than ourselves, the US owes China the most and then Japan

Hutsori

11-24-13, 18:43

Excellent comment, GE. Bravo!

The Philippine military is almost pathetically starved of equipment, supplies and expertise, as reiterated in the national and international press. It was, and remains incapable of providing meaningful support to the victims of the disaster. The government here is inept, indifferent and equally incapable of doing much but spewing empty rhetoric.This is true on a staggering scale. I've spent the past several nights at Villamor Airbase in Pasay participating in OPLAN Hatid, the volunteer organised and run operation that drives Yolanda survivors / refugees from the base to a relative's home or one of the tent cities sent up in metro Manila. Though on an airbase the air force's involvement aiding the people once they deplane is minimal, mostly limited to directing traffic and sweeping up litter. There's a hospital on the base with military medical staff, but people are examined in a tent by outside medical volunteers. SM sent a mobile clinic to assist. The military has buses and trucks that could be used to transport people to far off places such a Laguna and Bagiuo but instead volunteers have to save the day. The government's efforts are being run by the Department of Social Welfare's (DSWD) social workers and these employees, almost all women, have done wonderfully. Volunteers man the kitchen, distribute clothing, etc and a few companies such as Smart, Globe, and Coca Cola have booths there.

I can understand why it was chaotic and poorly run in Tacloban because the local government was shattered. But I think there is little if any excuse for the hands-off approach taken by the military and civilian authorities here.

Pita123

11-24-13, 23:43

The desire of the US to re establish military hegemony in the Philippines is, in my opinion, over stated. It also ignores the huge deployment of military assets sent by other countries such as the UK and Japan, which responded by sending the largest ships available to them. I doubt anyone believes that these two countries seek any sort of long-term advantage in the countrySometimes people think first about the "right thing to do". Israel also cannot be looking for some long term interests. http://dailynightly.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/15/21477819-dr-nancy-snyderman-in-awe-of-israeli-medics-in-philippines

BrainDrain

11-25-13, 00:39

Tally Wacker

11-25-13, 01:44

GoodEnough

11-25-13, 14:57

I'm sure the many foreign specialists in this forum will know more but what is the additional marginal cost of providing this 'aid' by any of the countries.

The ships are already owned, the staff are already paid, the troops are paid etc. The bandages and dressings were going to be disposed when they go out of date if not used. The Drs and medics that Australia are sending can broaden their experiences and add to their stories for their speaking circuit and fundraising activities.

Even Australia sending containers from Australia to Phil shouldn't cost too much. Most of the ships return to Asia empty at the moment due to our love of imported goods.

I'm not being cynical, just pointing out that in many case there is not a lot 'out of pocket' for the donor countries even though it may get dressed up as $$$mm.

In fact, these type of events I would consider are excellent skills development opportunities for leaders. The troops get to be involved in something tangible instead of yet another drill exercise.

And, no doubt, there will be a few deposits of DNA and a couple of future marriages I'm sure.Nice post. I agree that the costs associared with logistics-the planes, the ships, the military personnel, amd the heavy equipment-would have been in use elsewhere and the marginal costs are likely not excessive. However, the supplies-tents, food, water and medicines-likely represent "new" money that was either diverted from other countries or reflects additional appropriations.

Slighty off topic, there was quite a comprehensive article in today's "Philippine Daily Inquirer," contended that the government is being flooded with so much money that it lacks the ability to handle. It doesn't have the procurement and disbursement systems in place to begin to cope with the funds it's getting which means that the funds will not be spent effectively or efficiently. The government is as inept at creating and implementing projects as it is in providing relief.

GE

GoodEnough

11-25-13, 14:59

I'm sure the many foreign specialists in this forum will know more but what is the additional marginal cost of providing this 'aid' by any of the countries.

The ships are already owned, the staff are already paid, the troops are paid etc. The bandages and dressings were going to be disposed when they go out of date if not used. The Drs and medics that Australia are sending can broaden their experiences and add to their stories for their speaking circuit and fundraising activities.

Even Australia sending containers from Australia to Phil shouldn't cost too much. Most of the ships return to Asia empty at the moment due to our love of imported goods.

I'm not being cynical, just pointing out that in many case there is not a lot 'out of pocket' for the donor countries even though it may get dressed up as $$$mm.

In fact, these type of events I would consider are excellent skills development opportunities for leaders. The troops get to be involved in something tangible instead of yet another drill exercise.

And, no doubt, there will be a few deposits of DNA and a couple of future marriages I'm sure.Nice post. I agree that the costs associared with logistics-the planes, the ships, the military personnel, amd the heavy equipment-would have been in use elsewhere and the marginal costs are likely not excessive. However, the supplies-tents, food, water and medicines-likely represent "new" money that was either diverted from other countries or reflects additional appropriations.

Slighty off topic, there was quite a comprehensive article in today's "Philippine Daily Inquirer," contending that the government is being flooded with so much money that it lacks the ability to handle it. It doesn't have the procurement and disbursement systems in place to begin to cope with the funds it's getting which means that the funds will not be spent effectively or efficiently. The government is as inept at creating and implementing projects as it is in providing relief.

GE

Soapy Smith

11-26-13, 05:31

I don't pretend to know what's going on with US/Phil relations because I don't, but Naome Klein talks about that kind of behavior in her excellent book The Shock Doctrine, the Rise Of Disaster Capitalism.SC and others seem to suggest that the American military is taking up control. Klein's argument was not about military or government taking control, it was that Private sector interests manipulate the disaster situation to get essentially proprietary rights to redesign systems, thereby creating a sort of monopoly. The new system, designed as though the private interest's solution becomes a fait accompli, and hemmed in by regulation, prevents others, including government, from offering alternative policy options.

Econo Tech

11-26-13, 06:40

Sometimes people think first about the "right thing to do". Israel also cannot be looking for some long term interests.

http://dailynightly.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/15/21477819-dr-nancy-snyderman-in-awe-of-israeli-medics-in-philippinesThere are heaps of Filipinos in Israel. *yes, I know. *.

GoodEnough

11-26-13, 10:05

SC and others seem to suggest that the American military is taking up control. Klein's argument was not about military or government taking control, it was that Private sector interests manipulate the disaster situation to get essentially proprietary rights to redesign systems, thereby creating a sort of monopoly. The new system, designed as though the private interest's solution becomes a fait accompli, and hemmed in by regulation, prevents others, including government, from offering alternative policy options.

I'm not familiar with Klein's work. However, I have had several meetings over the past ten days about the possibility of involving our company in some of the contracts for reconstruction that will start flowing soon, funded by the mountains of cash being contributed by bi and multilateral donors. I think in the case of the Philippines, placing most of the onus of program implementation with the private sector makes eminently good sense, given the callous indifference and incompetence of the national government; an entity that few trust. It would not surprise me at all if the donor community insisted on the award of implementation projects to private donors, within the context of national policies, and loosely monitored by the national government. I've got some very recent, personal experiences that suggest that the government is overwhelmed and has little idea what to do.

Typically, the government here spends years debating policies, which are often outdated by the time they're enacted into law. Many policies are never implemented, and many more are interpreted differently by various departments of the agencies responsible for their implementation. The government here is so totally incompetent that giving it the latitude to create alternative policies is irrelevant. Then too, the government here doesn't lack for policies: it seems to have one for almost every occasion. Policies and supporting statutes help create the illusion that this is a country of laws. The fact is however that policies are ignored once profits are at stakes and many key laws are never enforced.

The contention that the US military is somehow taking over is, I believe, specious. The 5, 000 or so troops aboard the aircraft carrier have departed, and responsibility for reconstruction and relief is increasingly being turned over to the NGOs and aid organizations. Given the enormity of the devastation, and the likely years-long duration of the recovery efforts, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I note that over the past few weeks the shrill voices routinely raised by militant nationalist groups about the intrusion of US military presence and the threat that poses to sovereignty, have been uncharacteristically silent.

GE

Member #4351

11-26-13, 15:36

responsibility for reconstruction and relief is increasingly being turned over to the NGOs and aid organizations.I just hope they stay out of Cebu City.

Soapy Smith

11-26-13, 18:27

I think in the case of the Philippines, placing most of the onus of program implementation with the private sector makes eminently good sense, given the callous indifference and incompetence of the national government; an entity that few trust.

<snip

Policies and supporting statutes help create the illusion that this is a country of laws. The fact is however that policies are ignored once profits are at stakes and many key laws are never enforced.Klein is not arguing that private sector competition is a bad thing. What she argues is that disasters create a punctuation in the equilibrium, and that shrewd, powerful, well-connected private firms pounce on the situation, convincing policy makers (and sometimes also the public) to give them a monopolistic handle going forward that crowds out all other alternative policy approaches. I do not have her book under hand to cite some of her illustrations, but I seem to recall that Halliburton figured prominently in the story. Obviously the same results can be achieved by governments controlled by a narrow band of societal elites.

Manny51

11-26-13, 23:55

I've just tuned into this debate, and it's entirely possible that I've missed something, but the comments I've read so far seem overly simplistic. As one who has followed the arguments here over the desirability or lack thereof of an enhanced US military presence, my conclusion is that the US has multiple motivations for it's massive response to the Haiyan disaster. First and foremost, the US did what it did because it's the only nation that could, given its military assets and the level of technology to which those assets have access. The need was undeniable, and without the sizable rapid deployment, more people would have died. A secondary benefit is doubtless the ability to demonstrate to China (and other Asian countries) its indispensability and perhaps it's continued primacy.

The Philippine military is almost pathetically starved of equipment, supplies and expertise, as reiterated in the national and international press. It was, and remains incapable of providing meaningful support to the victims of the disaster. The government here is inept, indifferent and equally incapable of doing much but spewing empty rhetoric.

The desire of the US to re establish military hegemony in the Philippines is, in my opinion, over stated. For the most part, I believe that the enormity of the entire international response was proportionate to the enormity of the calamity and was motivated by a genuine desire to do what the government is both in capable and unwilling to do.

GEAgree with this. The USA has been a light to the world for the last century. We helped them because we could. We helped them because the Phillipine government is too corrupt and inept to help anyone.

When I went to Cebu, I was in a taxi going to town, and I saw a restaurant on fire, flames in the air, burning to the ground. The owner was outside crying. About 1/2 mile down the road, there was a fire station. All the firemen were asleep, the lights out, the trucks parked in the garage. I asked the taxi driver about this, and he said,"This is Cebu."

And why the hell we would we want a military presence in the Phillipines? No oil. No Al qaeda. If we want to make China nervous, we already have a huge military presence in South korea that will never go away. Anyone conspiracy theorists that think that we have an ulterior motives are idiots that watch too much TV.

FreebieFan

11-27-13, 01:45

And why the hell we would we want a military presence in the Phillipines? No oil. No Al qaeda. If we want to make China nervous, we already have a huge military presence in South korea that will never go away. Anyone conspiracy theorists that think that we have an ulterior motives are idiots that watch too much TV.Whilst not having a dog in this particular fight, its so wonderful to read ISG and be told that if an opinion that held is different to yours, makes the holder of said opinion " a TV watching idiot ".

Maybe you don't know how the fire stations work in the Philippines and who pays what to whom.

Have a read about the self administered fire brigades in Tondo, you will learn something.

Hutsori

11-27-13, 05:43

And why the hell we would we want a military presence in the Phillipines (sic)?Well, one of the world's most important shipping lanes is in the South China Sea and the Straits of Malacca.

No oil.In the SCS there is.

No Al qaeda.In Mindanao there's a hot Muslim insurrection. Perhaps you've heard of Zamboanga? Guess not.

X Man

11-27-13, 15:47

Wonderfully succinct.

If Manny needs further edutainment, let me add that three of the top ten oil importers depend on oil tankers going thru the Malacca Straits. And then traveling north thru the SCS (China to the west / Philippines to the east) to countries Japan, Korea, China.

I would be especially interested in hearing from Manny how the US forces in Korea are valuable and why the US might be there forever. Does Korea subsidize the US forces like Japan does? X.

Well, one of the world's most important shipping lanes is in the South China Sea and the Straits of Malacca.

In the SCS there is.

In Mindanao there's a hot Muslim insurrection. Perhaps you've heard of Zamboanga? Guess not.

MidniteRider

11-27-13, 20:39

Fast Eddie 48

11-27-13, 22:58

The USA today repoet that Manny Pacquiao own the Philippine government 2. 2 be peso back tax and he have to borrow 1 MIL peso for the Haiyan typhoon relief.

Fast Eddie 48

Gangles

11-28-13, 01:10

While driving to Makati one evening recently, the taxi driver said that he could take me to plenty of places where women are available for a fee.

He mentioned "The Dormitory", and I recalled that this was the topic of discussion some time ago.

In fact, it was not a dormitory, but a casa in a quiet location. If anyone needs the location, just PM me. It is in Makati, on the boundary with Pasay.

Gangles

FreebieFan

11-28-13, 01:55

"Maybe you don't know how the fire stations work in the Philippines and who pays what to whom.

Have a read about the self administered fire brigades in Tondo, you will learn something."

No we don't. Can you enlighten us or give us a relevant link? I saw their website it's a volunteer outfit.Tondo is a predominantly Chinese area. Filipinos consider Filipino Chinese (Tsinoys) to be slightly different and know they are generally more wealthy.

Many years ago, there were some fires in Tondo. Fire brigades manned by Filipinos attended the fire but refused to put them out until payment was made. This continued for some time till the local tongs (groups of tradespeople) announced they could no longer be blackmailed and set their own volunteer fire brigades.

So as not to confuse they painted their fire fighting vehicles a different colour and used smaller veihicles to better negotiate the narrow roads of Tondo.

Quezon city, with a large Tsinoy population also has some sporadic volunteer brigades.

In other cities, dependent on the population mix this can also occur, although its mainly in Manila.

Hutsori

11-28-13, 10:03

Anyone know of a place doing an American-style Thanksgiving supper tonight in Makati, Pasay or Manila. I can only find a place in Ortigas, and I don't want the travel hassle. Thanks in advance.

Amjeck

11-28-13, 10:07

Soapy Smith

11-28-13, 15:58

Anyone know of a place doing an American-style Thanksgiving supper tonight in Makati, Pasay or Manila. I can only find a place in Ortigas, and I don't want the travel hassle. Thanks in advance.Based on your British spellings I had assumed you were from the mother country. Keep in mind that, even though the Pilgrim dinner was ostensibly to celebrate surviving (minus those who didn't) the first harsh year, the Pilgrims and British were equally pleased to be rid of each other. Pilgrims were escaping what they perceived to be British, and before that Dutch, persecution. The British were glad to see them leave. They didn't like the Pilgrims' version of Puritanism, their rabble-rousing, and their wife-swapping. So just be sure you know what you're celebrating.

WestCoast1

11-28-13, 17:30

The British were glad to see them leave. They didn't like the Pilgrims' version of Puritanism, their rabble-rousing, and their wife-swapping.Fortunately the Brits have matured. Smile.

Pete Benetar

11-29-13, 02:47

Wonderfully succinct.None of these are cogent reasons for any significant US base in the PI.

Ten years ago deep water was thought to be the solution for world oil and then along came the Bakken. With fracking and directional drilling N Dakota produces more oil than most middle eastern countries and by 2017 the IEA states USA will be the top oil producer ahead of Saudi. Off shore oil fields newly discovered almost seem like a monthly event to anyone following the DW driller markets and with time it's very likely the impact of an undeveloped SCS will have negligible economic and strategic effects, for certain, on US politics.

Where's Zamboanga? I guess if those guys make inroads and manage to take out MOA or hit the embassy there off Roxas that might be a different story. Take your pic on any given African or SW Asian country for reasons to set up yet more US bases since the threat from the southern archipelago there in the PI is almost negligible.

On Korea (ok, I'm just butting in) today you've got Chinese running sorties to meet and greet our guys flying over the "New" air defense zone in the East China Sea. You have a bushy haired never do well with some number of nukes and a penchant for exporting nasty things to guys who really hate the US. If all that's not enough, the guy hangs out with Dennis Rodman.

No doubt we'll end up with some status agreement with the PI and perhaps even a few small leased bases. Korea will remain huge in the US strategic plan; the PI not so much, like it or not. Some messages are said with marginal tact, but maybe valid nonetheless.

Hutsori

11-29-13, 07:38

Based on your British spellings I had assumed you were from the mother country.You mean the correct spellings, yeah? ;) No matter the nationality a tasty bird is a tasty bird. Same goes for turkey.

Over the years I've had a few Yank Thanksgiving feasts and even a Canucki one. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Soapy Smith

11-29-13, 08:30

You mean the correct spellings, yeah?Let's just say the spellings for those whose keyboards appear to lack the letter z, and rarely can leave an o and r alone without tacking a u in between.

Soapy Smith

11-29-13, 08:55

Ten years ago deep water was thought to be the solution for world oil and then along came the Bakken. With fracking and directional drilling N Dakota produces more oil than most middle eastern countries and by 2017 the IEA states USA will be the top oil producer ahead of Saudi. Off shore oil fields newly discovered almost seem like a monthly event to anyone following the DW driller markets and with time it's very likely the impact of an undeveloped SCS will have negligible economic and strategic effects, for certain, on US politics.
I am not sure whether to interpret your post as prescriptive or descriptive / empirical. If your concern is that the U.S. ought to avoid yet another entanglement as the world's policeman, I am with you. But setting aside whether the U.S. should get involved, I think the empirical reality is that we are already heavily involved. Protecting the Philippines is not the primary objective, but our Philippine friends do seem to be offering a welcome, and the welcome may fit with other American concerns.

The significance of oil in the region is not that we need it; it is that other large economies need it, including several (Japan, Korea, etc.) that are close allies of the U.S. We are also concerned with international policy circles to keep China in check, and China's oil dependency is one point of leverage the U.S. is unlikely to ignore. Yes, China and Walmart need each other, but other geo-strategic and economic dynamics may keep the U.S. perpetually concerned with keeping up pressure on China.

In addition, South Asia (especially India) and Southeast Asian countries (led by Indonesia) are among the fastest growing economies in the world. American foreign policy and military strategy are shaped by this reality. So it's not just oil that gets shipped through the South China Sea; lots of other kinds of trade flow through the area as well.

Thirteen of the world's 20 busiest ports are either in East or Southeast Asia, and Singapore ranks second only to Shanghai.

http://storymaps.esri.com/stories/2013/ports/

And clearly the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and its members see great strategic importance in Southeast Asia:

http://www.uschamber.com/press/releases/2013/august/new-poll-finds-us-businesses-optimistic-about-growth-opportunities-despit

http://www.uschamber.com/international/asia/southeastasia

Furthermore, some analysts predict that by 2030 India will surpass Germany as the fifth largest consumer economy in the world. It's already a large exporter of various products. Indonesia is also on a strong upward economic trajectory, and its primary trading partners are Japan, Singapore, and the United States. Other growing economies in Southeast Asia include Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, and, dare we say it, the Philippines.

The largest Islamic country in the world is in Southeast Asia (Indonesia) , and several other populous countries in the area are predominantly Islamic. So although we may not want to get into armed forays in Muslim areas, and we have no great wish to get bogged down in Muslim Mindanao, the U.S. is also unlikely to turn a blind eye to these areas. I think the notion that we can dispense with global security concerns in the area, while an appealing idea, is simply unlikely to materialize.

The U.S. is likely to continue to play its hand in the arena as long as China continues to play hardball with our allies, whether they be Japan, Korea, or the Philippines:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/28/us-japan-china-idUSBRE9AR0AH20131128

The Navy's shifting its 50-50 fleet alignment (Pacific to Atlantic) to 60-40 was not an idle gesture. It reflects serious foreign policy. Why should we assume this stance will shrivel in coming years?

Pete Benetar

11-29-13, 21:26

the navy's shifting its 50-50 fleet alignment (pacific to atlantic) to 60-40 was not an idle gesture. it reflects serious foreign policy. why should we assume this stance will shrivel in coming years?some of your comments belie the substance of what i was offering. in fact, the one thing i wanted to say was the less than elegant declaration by this manny fellow seemed more accurate than some of the replies to his post. read between the lines as i was suggesting wrt to recent events in the east china sea, n korea etc that the asian "pivot" will likely continue. most of the ports you refer to (i think) are nearer to the east china sea than the pi. so if you are suggesting we need a much larger usn presence in asia, than perhaps it would be in japan or korea. i don't really think that is what you are suggesting, but it is the same vein of logic i am reading in your post.

your verbiage obfurep001es my point about the off shore fields as well. configuring the us policy on the scs fields will not only be dependent on the us wanting to be "top cop" (we will) , it will be dependent on the global oil markets and in particular the n american oil market. much of the strategy is based upon global demand and depletion of oil reserves and there is a plausible argument that fracking in general and n america in particular will have a substantial impact on the global peak oil theory within the decade. yes, i know about the asian economies and the shipping lanes and wall street wants stability etc, etc. so if we decide to forward deploy the 3rd fleet with alot more us debt, then i guess the pi might work. but if we do need another base for those jihadists populating indonesia, or chinese migrating southward, what better place than northern australia which geographically, culturally and politically might make more sense?

as for the mindanao area, we certainly don't need another subic bay to support the pi for smallish operations. in that respect, a larger "footprint" might clearly be counterproductive. generally, just about every scenario throughout se asia will be planned for with smaller, faster and more specialized responses, save china or korea. the us is becoming a debtor nation for china and nobody wants an expensive commerce damaging brawl. ok, maybe a few generals, admirals and defense contractors would like that. but budgets and doctrine will i think increasingly shape strategy toward the "less is more" mentality and to that end we don't need another (big) base in the pi.

New Bound

12-01-13, 01:43

Tally Wacker

12-01-13, 03:46

Guys, I don't have any experience in the Philippines. I looked at the boards but didn't find what I was searching for. I was actually looking for someplace in the Phlippines with really nice beaches, and also good food, and hiking, swimming- that sort of thing. I chance to meet working girls, and / or non pros at the site would be a fantastic bonus. Anything even remotely similiar to Bali or Phuket in Philippines, or maybe something on a much smaller scale. I know that Manila and Angels are the hot sports for working girls, but I'm putting the priority for the trip in finding a gorgeous beach, and hopefully some friendly ladies for extra fun.Its possible to find a sexy willing girl at one of the beach destinations but the local girls are usually shy and more conservative and take a little more work for them to stay with you plus they will need to come up with a story to tell their parents.

How much time do you have available in Phil? How much patience do you have to find the right girl on a dating site like dateinasia or Filipina Cupid that will meet your needs prior to your trip?

Even if you click with a girl online it does not guarantee that you will enjoy each others company for a week and sex will be good.

The best thing would be to set up a number of dates with potential girls via a dating site in an area like Manila or Cebu. Then spend a few days meeting and fucking. If you click with one then snatch her up and take her with you to your beach destination.

I like to go to Manila then take the 1hr flight to Puerto Princessa. Honda Bay is nice but if you want a pristine beach and clean clear water then jump a bus and you can get to El Nido in 6hrs. Its worth the hasstle and time.

You should test drive the girl before you take her for a number of days. And if you don't like the dating sites you can find a girl once your feet hit the ground in one of the many places talked about on this site.

Did you stumbled on this site looking for food reviews in Philippines lol.

Tally Wacker

12-01-13, 06:48

An interesting video about the newest ships in the US Navy.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=21f_1385871477

SANTA RITA, Guam (Nov. 29, 2013) – The littoral combat ship, USS Freedom (LCS 1) , arrived in Guam, the furthest western USA territory, as part of her return transit across the Pacific Ocean, Nov. 29.

While the crew will have time to rest, relax and reset, Freedom will receive fuel and supplies for the next underway period as the ship wraps up a maiden overseas deployment to Southeast Asia that began last March.

http://www.pacificnewscenter.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=39975:uss-freedom-visits-guam-while-transiting-pacific&catid=45:guam-news&Itemid=156

Soapy Smith

12-01-13, 08:19

most of the ports you refer to (i think) are nearer to the east china sea than the pi. so if you are suggesting we need a much larger usn presence in asia, than perhaps it would be in japan or korea. i don't really think that is what you are suggesting, but it is the same vein of logic i am reading in your post.

your verbiage obfurep001es my point about the off shore fields as well. configuring the us policy on the scs fields will not only be dependent on the us wanting to be "top cop" (we will) , it will be dependent on the global oil markets and in particular the n american oil market. much of the strategy is based upon global demand and depletion of oil reserves and there is a plausible argument that fracking in general and n america in particular will have a substantial impact on the global peak oil theory within the decade. yes, i know about the asian economies and the shipping lanes and wall street wants stability etc, etc. so if we decide to forward deploy the 3rd fleet with alot more us debt, then i guess the pi might work. but if we do need another base for those jihadists populating indonesia, or chinese migrating southward, what better place than northern australia which geographically, culturally and politically might make more sense?

i'm glad one of us could find a 'vein of logic' in my post. please note i never suggested what the usn 'needs' to do. if i had an intended message, it was simply that the u.s. is likely to continue to act as though it has a strategic interest in the south china sea. regardless how much bakken shale shapes world oil prices and insulates the u.s. from direct interest in scs oil, if our allies and enemies care about scs oil, then we too have a strategic stake in it. most reports suggest that the u.s. has resisted taking sides in the scs territorial disputes, but we also made a concerted effort at recent asean meetings to get member countries to reach agreement on a common set of maritime principles for the scs. why would we invest this diplomatic energy if we don't perceive strategic importance in the area? shipping lanes in the scs appear to be strategically important to our leaders.

of the 20 busiest ports in the website i linked, one is in korea (busan) , one is in the middle east, two are in the u.s., three are in europe, five are in the east china or yellow seas, and eight are in the south china sea or in southeast or southwest asia—and therefore probably sending traffic through the south china sea.

is korea still a viable defense position given apparent threats in the east china and yellow seas? sure. but is it a certainty? who knows? a few years ago i was with a korean friend in seoul watching hundreds of koreans demonstrating outside the american embassy. he observed that, "the u.s. has become our new japan."

is darwin, australia a viable u.s. site, given its location, common language, and prevalence of rule of law? it appears it already is. so you will not find me advocating in any posts for a large u.s. base in the philippine. i did say the philippines is welcoming and we may take advantage of the welcome. are mobile deployment and budget-constrained approaches part of any likely trajectory? of course.

but history has shown that sometimes shit happens. i am not a fan of tightly-coupled foreign policy projections. the idea that we can stake out a likely or preferred set of policy decisions as though our foreign policy apparatus represents a unitary rational actor does not hold up well to the test of history. many interests internal to a country push and pull on the direction of foreign policy. john mccain never saw a potential war he didn't like, and rand paul never saw a foreign incursion he did like. and they are of the same party. other countries with whom we interact, both friend and foe, are subject to similarly divergent interests and voices. the guys with biggest sticks are more likely to get their way, but sometimes shit happens.

inelegance and marginal tact were not the first things that came to mind when i read manny's post: naivete was. but 'verbiage'? ouch.

New Bound

12-01-13, 20:00

Tally, thanks for the reply. I will take your advice and go to Puerto Princessa- and take it from there. It should be a lot of fun. I'm taking about six weeks, so plenty of time to meet some babes once I git the ground. I figure I can find hot babes almost anywhere, so I like to focus on finding a fun location, nice beaches, outdoor fun, and food, then work on finding some nice babes from there. I will post a report on my return. I like working girls, but when I have time enjoy the non pro scene. Thanks. NB

Pete Benetar

12-01-13, 20:19

Please note I never suggested what the USN 'needs' to do.

Of the 20 busiest ports in the website I linked, one is in Korea (Busan) , one is in the Middle East, two are in the USA, three are in Europe, five are in the East China or Yellow Seas, and eight are in the South China Sea or in Southeast or Southwest Asia—and therefore probably sending traffic through the South China Sea.

A few years ago I was with a Korean friend in Seoul watching hundreds of Koreans demonstrating outside the American Embassy. He observed that,"The USA has become our new Japan."

But 'verbiage'? Ouch.Of course you didn't and that's exactly why I said I don't think that is what you believe. But your comments take some liberty interpreting others so I thought I might point that out for your benefit. And yes, 'verbiage', but don't be distressed as no doubt much of what I spread might be coined in fertilizer terms as well.

Korean nationalism can't seriously be compared to pinoy fervor (which could be resuscitated by opening any us base in the PI) and the closure of Subic decades ago; the threat is much more imminent and too much S Korean wealth would evaporate for any serious movement for the US to leave there. Nationalist fervor is of course not entirely predictable, but a US departure from Korea would be a far, far different scenario for the S Koreans and especially those Koreans who hold the wealth and power.

The SCS, ports, lanes, drilling etc all are red herrings for hawks promoting the military containment strategy. I agree that the "pivot" will put emphasis on this area, but the rationale is BS IMO. Many of those ports and lane traffic in the SCS belong to the Chinese. SCS commerce disruption would be a mutually destructive economic strategy for the Chinese. Or anyone else there.

Oil delivered from the SCS is an almost negligible amount on the world market. Most of the production in the SCS is in uncontested littoral waters anyways. I'm not aware of any significant known reserves in PI waters and there has been very little if any production coming out of SCS deep waters. The amount of production there is such that the rationale for positioning more navy assets is hardly to assure our allies of economic benefits of more oil / NG, but to have more hard assets in place for a bigger show or impression. Back on Bakken which may indeed insulate the US; add also that the demand for SCS fuels will have a lesser impact on the oil markets (even there in SEA) and that may even be encouraged by American or any oil, even LNG, exporters for price support. The oil landscape could seriously look quite different in just a few years from now and the SCS might be equally affected by this.

OTOH, of course, my own verbiage is only opinion and sadly will do little to nitrogenize the compost.

Hutsori

12-01-13, 22:03

As one who is very interested in the topic I have to say both Pete and Skip have brought forth germane facts and valid views.

What has not been mentioned is credibility. It's certainly less tangible than ports, shipping lanes and oil platforms, but it's so much more important. Whose views are given more credence in capitals around the world? This matters. Deeply. Is the SCS to become a "Chinese lake" or remain open to international transit? Beijing seeks to establish the former and the US seeks to maintain the latter. Credibility is not only important internationally but is pertinent in the domestic sphere. Note the reactions of the Chinese (government controlled) press and (government monitored) public after the US flew two lumbering, no-stealth-whatsover B-52s right through China's new air defence identification zone (ADIZ) for an hour almost immediately after China proclaimed it. Many there have deemed this a national humiliation. Note how Beijing was ridiculed as kuripot (stingy) both at home and abroad for its niggardly donation of $100, 000 to the Philippines for typhoon Yolanda relief. (Yes, China later donated more and even sent a hospital ship, but the damage done by the first impression can't be undone. Of course in its "peaceful rise" China will misstep but it'll learn.)

I strongly disagree with Pete's analysis that Pinoy nationalism is more fervent than Korean. As someone who has worked and lived in both Korea and the Philippines (and the Gulf states) for a long time, though in Korea for much longer, Korean xenophobia and anti-Americanism is much more palpable. I have friends who were Peace Corps workers in Korea in the '70s and '80s and they often mention how Korea was a much friendlier place prior to the 1986 Asian Games and the 1988 Olympics, but as it developed economically it became a nastier place. Perhaps the Philippines, if and when it becomes more successful, may follow suit, but I personally doubt this will happen. In Korean culture is "han", a word that isn't perfectly translated into English, that roughly means never-to-be-assuaged grudge. Pete is correct that the Koreans would suffer immensely if the US were to withdraw. Much is this is due to Korean suckling Uncle Sucker's teat for too long; it still flies F-4s and F-5s whilst spending billions on national aggrandisement projects.

I also disagree that Korea is the place where the US can monitor and secure the SCS. Firstly, the 7th Fleet has nothing but a few office buildings there; it's anchored in Yokosuka, Japan, about a 4-day sail from the SCS. Secondly, the US military in Japan (and Guam) fulfills a regional role; in the Korea the US military (largely army) is Korea centric.

Pete Benetar

12-02-13, 07:59

I strongly disagree with Pete's analysis that Pinoy nationalism is more fervent than Korean. As someone who has worked and lived in both Korea and the Philippines (and the Gulf states) for a long time, though in Korea for much longer, Korean xenophobia and anti-Americanism is much more palpable. I have friends who were Peace Corps workers in Korea in the '70s and '80s and they often mention how Korea was a much friendlier place prior to the 1986 Asian Games and the 1988 Olympics, but as it developed economically it became a nastier place. Perhaps the Philippines, if and when it becomes more successful, may follow suit, but I personally doubt this will happen. In Korean culture is "han", a word that isn't perfectly translated into English, that roughly means never-to-be-assuaged grudge. Pete is correct that the Koreans would suffer immensely if the US were to withdraw. Much is this is due to Korean suckling Uncle Sucker's teat for too long; it still flies F-4s and F-5s whilst spending billions on national aggrandisement projects.

I also disagree that Korea is the place where the US can monitor and secure the SCS. Firstly, the 7th Fleet has nothing but a few office buildings there; it's anchored in Yokosuka, Japan, about a 4-day sail from the SCS. Secondly, the US military in Japan (and Guam) fulfills a regional role; in the Korea the US military (largely army) is Korea centric.My apologies Hutsori for not being clearer on the pinoy vs Korean nationalism bit, but my intent was not to say Koreans were less fervent (they may insanely be so) , only that our good friends at Samsung, Hyundai, Kia et al will be far more effective in controlling this fervor out of self interest than the pinoys. I've been to Korea a few times and know several Koreans stateside so I do understand their culture and their nationalism somewhat. My 16 yo son's mother is half Korean half American courtesy a GI wedding and every time he goes to visit his mother's household he returns home and I hear "Korean this" and "Korean that" for days on end. They are quite an obstinate lot and truth be told, I could care one iota if the whole peninsula fell under Kim Jung-In and his pal Dennis except that my equity portfolios would come crashing down as well.

Below is my comment and I understand that it could have been misconstrued.

"Korean nationalism can't seriously be compared to pinoy fervor (which could be resuscitated by opening any us base in the PI) and the closure of Subic decades ago"

I agree with your point as well about not being able to cover SCS from points north and if the pivot does come to fruition may likely advance assets from the 3rd fleet based in the Puget Sound and place them further south as you suggest. I don't think I actually said we could effectively deal with issues in the SCS from Korea or Japan. My retort is and has been that I personally don't see it as a major strategic region (compared to the real estate about the east sea) vis a vis ports and lanes and such, though bases in the SCS would obviously threaten China with a much more comprehensive containment scenario. SCS bases might also buy more points from the other contestants down there who are neutral or just leaning toward an alliance with us, but that's not a given either as many peoples just don't like cops and now we're back into the rigmarole of USA playing enforcer-in-chief, yet again. I'm a military guy and I like to be circumspect about these things, especially if it's my ass on the line or anywhere near it. But the ramifications of playing the enforcer has other very deep potential downsides which I think most on this MB would agree with. Again, just some more fertilizer for thought.

Hutsori

12-02-13, 11:27

only that our good friends at samsung, hyundai, kia et al will be far more effective in controlling this fervor out of self interest than the pinoys.the chaebols as well as the small and medium enterprises do play the nationalist card quite often.

i could care one iota if the whole peninsula fell under kim jung-in and his pal dennis except that my equity portfolios would come crashing down as well.likewise here. i would shed no tears if kim jong-un took the southern half of the peninsula.

my retort is and has been that i personally don't see it as a major strategic region (compared to the real estate about the east sea) vis a vis ports and lanes and such, though bases in the scs would obviously threaten china with a much more comprehensive containment scenario. scs bases might also buy more points from the other contestants down there who are neutral or just leaning toward an alliance with us, but that's not a given either as many peoples just don't like cops and now we're back into the rigmarole of usa playing enforcer-in-chief, yet again. i'm a military guy and i like to be circumspect about these things, especially if it's my ass on the line or anywhere near it. but the ramifications of playing the enforcer has other very deep potential downsides which i think most on this mb would agree with. again, just some more fertilizer for thought.we differ here wrt the value of the scs and the straits of malacca (som). east asia depends on me oil (far more so than the us as you mentioned earlier, but since oil is a commodity its disruption has a knock-on effect to all) and they are export-driven economies. i recall reading something like 50% of international commercial trade passes through the region - in 2011 over 15 million bbl per day passed through the som. for its part beijing has sought to bypass this strategic choke point through multi-billion dollar megaprojects, such as building a port and oil and gas pipelines in myanmar (kyaukpyu special economic zone); built and operates gwadar port in pakistan; proposed building road and rail links between chittagong, bangladesh and kunming, china; proposed building roads and a high-speed rail link that would connect kunming with the cambodian capital via laos; and even explored the feasibility of constructing a canal through thailand's kra isthmus that would allow it to bypass the som.

it's a helluva lot cheaper to use the existing som and scs shipping lanes, so beijing's investments to diversify its supply channels away from the scs and som indicate the leadership is very uncomfortable with the power vacuum there and the us naval and air presence in japan and guam. once it has a fully operational blue-water navy with 2 or 3 carriers the chinese could very well be the dominant force in the region.

the downsides of the us re-entry in the region are very true, but with the us more closely present the se asian states have an option. the absence of the us leaves everyone with china. for dozens of years the us has maintained military ties with thailand, malaysia, indonesia, singapore and the philippines through exercises such as cobra gold, carat, balikatan as well as visiting force agreements (vfa), and it has improved military ties with vietnam. this multi-year investment would be a waste if the us was to acquiesce to china's bullying. the damage to us credibility would cascade beyond the region.

Soapy Smith

12-02-13, 18:08

Whose views are given more credence in capitals around the world? This matters.And in capitalists' offices around the world. Perceptions matter and major players work hard to create their own constructed reality. I acknowledge I am not a peak oil scientist, but I understand it is based on models that project some point in time where oil production will necessarily begin to decline due to exhausting supplies and technologies. (Please educate me if I have this wrong.) But it seems to me that oil consumption is also largely dependent on demand. Otherwise, BP would not spend so much money trying to convince the American public about their sensitivity to the environment, nor would oil and auto industries invest lobbying effort to get ongoing government subsidies (relative to their bottom lines) poured into highway construction and maintenance. At risk of sounding redundant here (it is),"many interests internal to a country push and pull on the direction of foreign policy." And all are reading signs from each other's actions and actively constructing their own realities. Perceptions matter and the underlying dynamics often don't lend themselves to hard science.

Wicked Roger

12-02-13, 18:09

As one who is very interested in the topic I have to say both Pete and Skip have brought forth germane facts and valid views.Am glad you are happy Hutsori but can I remind you this is a mongering board not one to for you a select few others to discuss ad naseum the minute details of your (and others views) on USA, Korean, Japanese influences / invasions / occupancies etc in the ASEAN region. There is a specific thread called Philippines politics try take the chat there where most of don't bother to read.

If any of this has any impact on mongering please enlighten me (and others who I have PMed with) it all started I think with the comment "will it increase prices for us monger" or something like that.

If I wanted to know what you and others are yacking on about in detail I would sign at one of the unis here and be a student surrounded by lovely female students who I would encourage to form a 'study group' and invite selected professors to come and give there inputs on the topic.

Now for general mongering information that is important to our 'hobby'. Did anyone read about the increase in HIV cases in the country, recently reported in the media but given all the other stuff happening not given the prominence it really deserves? It did say that most of the increase was to M2M contact (ie homosexuals) but it pays to be careful gentlemen.

Over and out.

Pete Benetar

12-04-13, 04:43

If I wanted to know what you and others are yacking on about.

Did anyone read about the increase in HIV cases in the country, recently reported in the media but given all the other stuff happening not given the prominence it really deserves? It did say that most of the increase was to M2M contact (ie homosexuals) but it pays to be careful gentlemen.Yes, PNAC's report ascribing increased rate of contraction to M2M, needle use and mother to newborn with no mention of heterosex contributing to the increases. Rates in the PI still relatively low; even more concerning I think is identification of a super strain in west Afirca that shortens progression (mean) of HIV to AIDS from about 12 years to 5 years. Same article with data from WHO indicates AIDS is also increasingly plaguing eastern Europe, probably due to paucity of anti-retrovirals available for treatment coupled with poor screening. The report on the superstrain by the way did note that while it progresses faster from HIV to AIDS, the strain remains sensitive to treatment. If you monger bareback (especially if you have "alternative" lifestyle habits) get tested annually and, if seroconverted to HIV positive, get on retrovirals immediately and stay on them.

BTW, guilty as charged on yacking ad nauseum. One more on SCS etc by me and I will change tag line to "yacker"

http://healthland.time.com/2013/11/28/new-aggressive-hiv-strain-found-in-west-africa/

http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/index.php/en/news/nation/18619-un-alarmed-by-increasing-hiv-aids-incidence-in-the-philippines

Dcfan77

12-04-13, 20:57

Member #4698

12-04-13, 21:37

Dcfan77, you are funny. You posted this same question in every possible thread. Ok I will try to answer you here. On the question of where to go in Asia, well, all the places where you posted are damn good choices. Pick one. It doesn't really matter where you go because you will have a great time in either BKK, Pattaya, AC, Subic, or Jakarta plus your first Asian sortie will most likely not be your last. It is so easy to get hooked on the girls out here.

For the most bang for the buck the choice is simple. It comes down to either AC, Subic or Soi 6 Pattaya. For all-nighters and GFE the best place is the PI specifically AC and Subic. For multiple short times with as many different girls as possible your best choice is Soi 6 Pattaya. For best looking girls, hang the expense its BKK, and Macau.

Lastly, you wrote that you like 'spinners with a little curves and thick girl with Phat booties' well Jakarta might be best for that, but take note: most Asian girls have natural 'A's' and 'B's' and are not near as curvy as Latinas, although Pinays generally carry more weight than Thai girls and Indos generally are more endowed. Personally I can't stand large bundas and fake tits so I prefer Asian women. I also think Asian girls (PI, Thai, and Indos) have much nicer personalities. That is why the last time I was in Colombia was over ten years ago. Don't get me wrong, they have some beautiful women down there, just overall, I prefer Asian girls by a wide margin.

Dcfan77

12-04-13, 21:45

Thanks bro. My writing is all over the place. LOL. How much would I spend for services in AC subic or soi6 Pattaya for services. Prices for hourly and all night?

Dcfan77, you are funny. You posted this same question in every possible thread. Ok I will try to answer you here. On the question of where to go in Asia, well, all the places where you posted are damn good choices. Pick one. It doesn't really matter where you go because you will have a great time in either BKK, Pattaya, AC, Subic, or Jakarta plus your first Asian sortie will most likely not be your last. It is so easy to get hooked on the girls out here.

For the most bang for the buck the choice is simple. It comes down to either AC, Subic or Soi 6 Pattaya. For all-nighters and GFE the best place is the PI specifically AC and Subic. For multiple short times with as many different girls as possible your best choice is Soi 6 Pattaya. For best looking girls, hang the expense its BKK, and Macau.

Lastly, you wrote that you like 'spinners with a little curves and thick girl with Phat booties' well Jakarta might be best for that, but take note: most Asian girls have natural 'A's' and 'B's' and are not near as curvy as Latinas, although Pinays generally carry more weight than Thai girls and Indos generally are more endowed. Personally I can't stand large bundas and fake tits so I prefer Asian women. I also think Asian girls (PI, Thai, and Indos) have much nicer personalities. That is why the last time I was in Colombia was over ten years ago. Don't get me wrong, they have some beautiful women down there, just overall, I prefer Asian girls by a wide margin.

Radical Guy

12-04-13, 23:03

Thanks bro. My writing is all over the place. LOL. How much would I spend for services in AC subic or soi6 Pattaya for services. Prices for hourly and all night?I haven't been to countries other than the Philippines, but I can tell you that it is universally agreed that the girls in the Philippines will give you much more of a GFE than any others. They are very emotional and sentimental, and very possessive, in general. And, depending on where you go, the cost is much lower.

Most girls are very happy with 2000-3000 PhP (like $45 to $65) for an all-nighter, especially if you find college students or others who aren't regular PFP types. You can seek these girls out in advance on free websites like dateinasia. Com, and have them waiting for you. And don't limit yourself to the popular mongering destinations. Even a place like Davao or Cagayan de Oro will have an abundance of talent just waiting to devour your body and heart. Just try chatting up some choice ones online before your arrival.

It is my understanding the girls in other countries see you as just a customer. Filipinas will see you as a boyfriend and potential husband, even if you make it clear that you are making no such commitments. But be careful, it is sooo easy to fall in love with these beauties! Good luck.

RG

Dcfan77

12-04-13, 23:15

Thanks guy!

Looks like Phillippines is looking more favorable. I'm always looking for GFE and falling in love LOL!

I haven't been to countries other than the Philippines, but I can tell you that it is universally agreed that the girls in the Philippines will give you much more of a GFE than any others. They are very emotional and sentimental, and very possessive, in general. And, depending on where you go, the cost is much lower.

Most girls are very happy with 2000-3000 PhP (like $45 to $65) for an all-nighter, especially if you find college students or others who aren't regular PFP types. You can seek these girls out in advance on free websites like dateinasia. Com, and have them waiting for you. And don't limit yourself to the popular mongering destinations. Even a place like Davao or Cagayan de Oro will have an abundance of talent just waiting to devour your body and heart. Just try chatting up some choice ones online before your arrival.

It is my understanding the girls in other countries see you as just a customer. Filipinas will see you as a boyfriend and potential husband, even if you make it clear that you are making no such commitments. But be careful, it is sooo easy to fall in love with these beauties! Good luck.

RG

Tally Wacker

12-05-13, 00:54

The Philippines has a lot of skinny ladies with no shape. But the appeal of the ladies knowing some english does help.

Please guys help a fellow mongerer out!I wouldn't say that most of the Filipinas are skinny with no shape. I think that's just what the avid photo posters seem to like and share here. I've seen plenty of shapely Filipinas.

Dcfan77

12-05-13, 01:02

Oh yeah! Thats what I like and bigger. Do they get bigger?

I wouldn't say that most of the Filipinas are skinny with no shape. I think that's just what the avid photo posters seem to like and share here. I've seen plenty of shapely Filipinas.

Dcfan77

12-05-13, 01:10

Did I mention I like puttin it in the butt! LOL!

I wouldn't say that most of the Filipinas are skinny with no shape. I think that's just what the avid photo posters seem to like and share here. I've seen plenty of shapely Filipinas.

Tally Wacker

12-05-13, 02:08

Oh yeah! Thats what I like and bigger. Do they get bigger?Yea they get bigger and so do their stomach's. Filipinas in general don't go for the butt thing although I've poked a few.

Naked Gunz

12-05-13, 02:49

I wouldn't say that most of the Filipinas are skinny with no shape. I think that's just what the avid photo posters seem to like and share here. I've seen plenty of shapely Filipinas.That's a great a$$! I like them with either nice natural boobs or butt, and when I see a woman with both (double whammy hour glass figure) , I get freakin stupid! All kinda money comes out and promises get made that I can't keep. She could have a face like a mule, but I got to have that body!

Dcfan77

12-05-13, 03:00

Lmao! Me too dude. She could be a dog in the face but if she has a shapely figure, thats a wrap for me.

That's a great a$$! I like them with either nice natural boobs or butt, and when I see a woman with both (double whammy hour glass figure) , I get freakin stupid! All kinda money comes out and promises get made that I can't keep. She could have a face like a mule, but I got to have that body!

WestCoast1

12-05-13, 03:53

Did I mention I like puttin it in the butt! LOL!Ick. Yuck factor going up. Soooooo dirty. Stay out of there, ok? Sicko's. Pervs.

Great Muta

12-05-13, 04:22

Dumb question, but would I have any shot of getting any non-Filipino girls down in the Philippines? Would be cool to get with someone from another Asian country.

Tally Wacker

12-05-13, 04:35

Dumb question, but would I have any shot of getting any non-Filipino girls down in the Philippines? Would be cool to get with someone from another Asian country.Did you ever make it to the Philippines like you said you were in early 2012? Btw your right its a dumb question.

Bizzie

12-05-13, 06:06

I wouldn't say that most of the Filipinas are skinny with no shape. I think that's just what the avid photo posters seem to like and share here. I've seen plenty of shapely Filipinas.Nyce!

This is a rare picture of shapely pinay (from what I have seen here). If there were more like these (and less of the skinny, shapeless kind) I would have gone to Fillipines on a mongering-only trip.

May be some day.

Cunning Stunt

12-05-13, 06:55

Yea they get bigger and so do their stomach's.Quite partial to the occasional Jolliburger muncher, myself, belly and all. Makes a pleasant change from the usual skinny bints. The angle of penetration is so very different and the ride that much plusher. Like jumping atop a Harley Super Glide after puttering along on a moped!

Pip Jaeger

12-05-13, 09:15

So my questions is which asian country do I go too. My main countries I'm looking at are Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia.

I don't really have a body type that I prefer. I usually like spinners with a little curves and thick girl with Phat booties. My requirements to going to a asian country is:

Price of serivces, GFE, and convenience of going from one place to the other for service. I like to do multiple pops a day.As you've probably already figured out the Phils, and in particular AC, would offer all that you seek; including 3 holers, but you can generally expect to add about 1, 000p donation for entering the back door.

You didn't mention how long you plan to stay in SEA. Why not combine destinations? Plan for a longer stay in the Phils and take a short hop over to Thailand or Indonesia. Airfares from the Phils to either place can be quite cheap.

The Philippines has a lot of skinny ladies with no shape.Not necessarily true. Although many of us come here looking for small and skinny spinners, there's plenty of shapely ladies here too. Do a Google search of some of bars' web pages, check out the photos posted and you'll see all kinds of body shapes. You can also see quite a few videos on You Tube as well by searching for "Angles City bars". Just be careful with some of the girls, many look like they have C cups, but often its "Breasts by Bali". They do love those padded bras here and I've been deceived (but never disappointed) a few times when they the bra came off and those lovely looking B+/C cups turned out to be A's or B-"s, LOL.

Gangles

12-05-13, 17:20

A couple of days ago I traveled from Cebu City across the island to the west coast, and then about 50 km north.

Also had some time walking through the mountains and general countryside. I saw no evidence of serious damage, A few trees uprooted, some very minor damage to the occasional building. One small field of corn blown flat.

The gal that I was with took me round to the back of her house to show me the damage from Yolanda. A single sheet of corrugated iron had been folded back on the roof of a lean-to.

I pointed out to her that the iron was full of rust holes, and had nil strength, and all of the woodwork in that room (and indeed the whole house) was riddled with termites. So nails and screws would not hold. She seemed to be a bit pissed at my lack of sympathy.

So, any of you who are still getting requests for assistance related to Yolanda, from this area, can take it with a large grain of salt.

G

Great Muta

12-05-13, 20:44

Quite partial to the occasional Jolliburger muncher, myself, belly and all. Makes a pleasant change from the usual skinny bints. The angle of penetration is so very different and the ride that much plusher. Like jumping atop a Harley Super Glide after puttering along on a moped!I love the Chubby / Small BBW girls (no one over 200). I love big boobs and asses and stomach's don't really bother me. Skinny girls are okay but when I'm sucking their tits or slapping their asses and I feel bone, it's not a pleasant experience.

Gangles

12-06-13, 04:07

From a yachtie mate, who is in Port Carmen, about 40 km north of Cebu:

The northern end of the island of Cebu was also in the path of the typhoon and apparently sustained serious damage. We haven't travelled north of Pt Carmen, so can't report firsthand about that, but one of the yachtees from Carmen rode up to Bogo Town 2 days ago. He said that there were a lot of damaged buildings there, with many trees and power lines down along the way. One news report also said that Malapascua Island was in ruins. We have been hearing the ambulance sirens travelling down from north, heading for Cebu City, ever since Saturday afternoon.

Gangles

12-06-13, 10:15

Not long ago, one or more punters were discussing the effects of Yolanda on mongering, suggesting that the disaster would be pushing more girls into the business to earn some additional revenue.

My observation from hotels in Cebu is that aid workers are booked into hotels, taking up rooms, driving up prices.

I can only assume that many of these will be mongering, just like us. This increase in demand may well drive up prices. And many of them will be here for a long time.

Maybe too bad for us.

G

Raverboy

12-06-13, 19:25

Fellow Mongers,

I have been mongerin' all over latin america and my home the USA for some time now. Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Colombia, Ecuador (where I was born). I have contributing posts in the respective countries. My fav of all time is Medellin. Been there 4 times. Tryin to do Peru the summer 2014.

But before I go to Peru. I want to hit up a asian country. I do a lot of MP in the states like Dallas TX, California just so I can get my asian fix. Mainly Korean and Thai beauties and some Chinese.

So my questions is which asian country do I go too. My main countries I'm looking at are Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia.

I don't really have a body type that I prefer. I usually like spinners with a little curves and thick girl with Phat booties. My requirements to going to a asian country is:

Price of serivces, GFE, and convenience of going from one place to the other for service. I like to do multiple pops a day. Thats why I like go to Medellin. (go from brothel to brothel then to the centro strip club) Love it!

Where do I get more bang for my buck? Correct me if I'm wrong. Thailand seems to have a lot of MP and bars which I like, but you end up pay $80 US for for an hour so. I might as well stay in the states.

The Philippines has a lot of skinny ladies with no shape. But the appeal of the ladies knowing some english does help.

I don't know what I get with the Indonesian chicks.

I would like to do all-nighters on this trip. Which place is better for this?

Please guys help a fellow mongerer out!It does look like you have made the same post on 5 different threads. I responded as follows to your post on the Indonesia thread (General Info) but I'll repost it here to respect the recommendations for the Phils that I have made in my reply, also because you dont seem to have seen my reply on the Indonesia thread.

Early 40s Singapore-born Canada-raised contributor here. Have also lived and worked in the US and in Vietnam. Have mongered in all the aforementioned countries, as well as in most ASEAN countries, with the exception of Myanmar, Brunei and East Timor.

Always pleased to share my 0. 02 cents on such a question.

Based on the info provided in your post, I would suggest the following based firstly from a purely logistical standpoint:

Depending on how much time you have allocated for this trip (clarification also as requested by the previous post) , and considering you are flying in from the US for a first time visit to Asia purely for mongering, why not do all three on your list. Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia? I would first shop around for fare deals from your city of departure in the US to any one of the three capital cities in the 3 countries on your list and use it as a 'hub' for trips to the others.

FYI Bangkok to Manila is a 3. 5 hour flight (budget: Cebu Pacific, flag carriers Thai and Philippines Airlines) , Manila to Jakarta is about 4 hours (budget: Cebu Pacific, flag carriers Philippines Airlines and Garuda) , Jakarta to Bangkok is 3. 5 hours (budget: Air Asia, flag carriers Garuda and Thai).

Alternatively, based again purely from a logistical standpoint, you could fly in to Singapore (United, Northwest, SQ, ANA, JAL, Korean, Asiana, etc. All have deals occasionally) and use it as your base since it is well connected to pretty much everywhere:

Singapore to Manila is a 3 hour flight (many airline choices) , Singapore to Jakarta is about 1. 5 hours (many airline choices) , Singapore to Bangkok is 2. 5 hours (many airline choices).

For this alternative, plan your itinerary well to spend the minimum time as possible in Singapore as it is not cheap for hotels, however there is a stopover deal offered by Singapore Airlines if you fly with them. More details on their website.

Bottom line: I think what is key is what deals you can get from your departure city in the US. For example, if you can get a good deal on Philippines Airlines for LAX MNL and don't mind flying with them, then it makes sense to start your fun in Manila then look at flight options from there to the other cities.

Ok. Now for my objective point of view. You're Ecuadorian descent and have mongered all over Latin America. You have an affinity for mujeres Colombianas.

I have a feeling you will naturally be quite pleased with Filipinas, as they are as close as we can get to a 'Latin' Asian. But thats just my opinion. Oh yeah and three-and-a-half centuries of Spanish colonization probably helped with that.

Indonesia. Since you are already on this thread, I don't suppose any hard sell on Indonesia is required. All I'll say is, for the world's most populous muslim country, be prepared to be amazed. This is a country as diverse as its 18, 000+ islands and its ironies, juxtapositions and extremes (. And women!) never cease to amaze me with every trip.

Growing up in Singapore and with a strong SGD, Thailand has always been the destination for cheap and good eats, shopping, massages and sex (not necessarily in that order) for us 18-21 year old army boys with raging hormones. Not to mention everyone else around the world!

But that was in the 90s. Gone are the days of the full 100-200 strong fishbowl lineup at the soapys (Ap-ob-nuat) , ONS pick-ups at the RCA clubs (freebie or 'taxi money' only very possible) , invitation to after-after parties by beautiful strangers, THB 1000 ST and THB 1500-2000 LT at Soi Cowboy / Soi Nana, and most importantly, IMHO, gone is any semblance of the Thai GFE.

Of course there are, as always, exceptions. But that just my opinion. I invite you to draw your own conclusions.

Raverboy

12-06-13, 20:19

...The Philippines has a lot of skinny ladies with no shape. But the appeal of the ladies knowing some english does help...

I suppose this is an example of what you mean by 'skinny lady with no shape' who was once upon a time my regular in AC, yes?

Selfie from the common changing room of one of the more popular bars on Fields.

Wjmpsr

12-08-13, 16:27

A while back I wrote about almost coming to blows with my wife's niece who stands 4'7" tall. She has been living with us for a few months, and has been quite helpful. But she is driving me up the wall with her "fresh from the province mentality". I had the misfortune of taking her to the grocery store. He shopping skills are strictly "sari sari". Each item I would purchase she would ask "only one tito". My wife gave me strick instructions to purchase feminine napkins, I attempted to have her niece do it, but she cannot understand the concept of thinking ahead. Instead of her coming in my room at 10pm in blood soaked panties asking if we have any napkins I prefer to keep some in stock. When I attempt to explain the fact that we paid a cab to go to the store and I want to stock up, she just gives me a dumb look which is exacerbated by her missing front tooth. I would never fuck this girl, she is family, but her small size reminds me of a pro I screwed in Brazil a few years back. She got on her hands and knees right below me on all fours and we fucked in a position I would describe as "in flight refueling".

ZipGun6

12-11-13, 04:00

I am considering retirement next year at age 54. Having visited several places in the world, I am giving some consideration to 3 places. Angeles city PI, Chiang Mai Thailand, or Medellin Colombia.

Having visited all 3 places several times in the past, and upon drawing up lists as to the merits of each location, I have one concern I would like to ask a Retired person in similar circumstance.

I would like to know your long term thoughts of living in a place that you have only visited on vacation, as compared to long term retirement living. More to the point.

1. In AC for example, are you still going out hitting the bars 3 plus nights a week 1 year into retirement?

2. Do most Expats end up hitting the Bars early in Retirement and then settling down with a steady GF after a few months?

3. Does what seem like a great place for vacation turn out to be a very boring place after a few months?

In essence, does the appeal of the "monger scene" lose its luster after you live there.
Additional data. Do not consider monthly budget as a factor when responding. Also. My plan is to always rent in all locations.

Wicked Roger

12-11-13, 18:40

Sam 14

12-11-13, 19:28

Most of the expats I know of that retire in those places drink themselves to death in the bars. Being stuck anywhere is a drag, so best be sure you have the means to travel still. If you're living in Phil, it will be nice to get up into the peaceful hills of Thailand and mellow down for a while. And be able to go back to your home country at least once a year, like maybe around Christmas. Then you won't have to hear the chipmonk version of the 12 Days of Christmas through blown out speakers a million fuckin times.

I am considering retirement next year at age 54. Having visited several places in the world, I am giving some consideration to 3 places. Angeles city PI, Chiang Mai Thailand, or Medellin Colombia.

Having visited all 3 places several times in the past, and upon drawing up lists as to the merits of each location, I have one concern I would like to ask a Retired person in similar circumstance.

I would like to know your long term thoughts of living in a place that you have only visited on vacation, as compared to long term retirement living. More to the point.

1. In AC for example, are you still going out hitting the bars 3 plus nights a week 1 year into retirement?

2. Do most Expats end up hitting the Bars early in Retirement and then settling down with a steady GF after a few months?

3. Does what seem like a great place for vacation turn out to be a very boring place after a few months?

In essence, does the appeal of the "monger scene" lose its luster after you live there.

Additional data. Do not consider monthly budget as a factor when responding. Also. My plan is to always rent in all locations.

FreebieFan

12-12-13, 01:49

Interesting read on NAIA and the passport control officers there.

More alarming (?) is the last paragraph. Justice moves slowly in the country.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/543559/abusive-immigration-personnelYeah. No matter how jet lagged, tired or eager you are to get thru and head to Pussyville the advice is good.

These guys are the guardians of the gate and can accept or reject you, and are super sensitive to any negative comments.

The sign says " no talking on the phone" so whilst you don't, its ok that they talk on phone to each other with earpieces on, often making comments about how the next person in line looks.

The last time I enterered one fat cow immagration lady, thinking I don't understand tagalog said to her equally fat neighbour " wow this guy here looks impatient". I replied in English that I was sorry I looked impatient, but I needed a bathroom and had been in line for 20 minutes. Memo to self " act dumber in future".

She stamped the passport and threw it back at me.

BrainDrain

12-12-13, 02:08

Interesting read on NAIA and the passport control officers there.

More alarming (?) is the last paragraph. Justice moves slowly in the country.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/543559/abusive-immigration-personnelSo far I have always been incredibly polite. I mark 'business' as my reason for travel but my fear is that one day, the outgoing immigration officer will see that as an invitation to ask for a little assistance. Currently making about 4 trips per year on business to Pi, I know that it is just a matter of time until I face off against one of the more adaptable officers.

BD

BrainDrain

12-12-13, 02:16

So, any of you who are still getting requests for assistance related to Yolanda, from this area, can take it with a large grain of salt.

GHad one bg on my facebook profile whom I met a year ago in Angeles. She had been good fun and I always try and keep in contact with them for a followup visit with a relationship built on time.

Anyway, following multiple visits back to AC and she never replied to any of my FB messages I guess she had moved on. Well it has taken her about a month to learn about how to milk foreigners via FB and she now has a solid 'Yolanda' story. She even now miz me so much and wish we can be bf / gf. I did point out that she hasn't miz me for the past twelve months. Consequently I haven't heard from her again.

I feel sorry for the many armchair mongers whom are sending Western Union to this new story.

I feel sorry that the money does not get to the intended people.

BD

Econo Tech

12-12-13, 02:53

Anyway, following multiple visits back to AC and she never replied to any of my FB messages I guess she had moved on. Well it has taken her about a month to learn about how to milk foreigners via FB and she now has a solid 'Yolanda' story. She even now miz me so much and wish we can be bf / gf. I did point out that she hasn't miz me for the past twelve months. Consequently I haven't heard from her again.I would have never told her that she lost contact for 12 months. Pinays are not good in deciphering sarcasm. And will think you are an evil person. End of story!

I will just act dumb, if she was a good screw. To get her to bed. If she was good.

Yeah. No matter how jet lagged, tired or eager you are to get thru and head to Pussyville the advice is good.

These guys are the guardians of the gate and can accept or reject you, and are super sensitive to any negative comments.

The sign says " no talking on the phone" so whilst you don't, its ok that they talk on phone to each other with earpieces on, often making comments about how the next person in line looks.

The last time I enterered one fat cow immagration lady, thinking I don't understand tagalog said to her equally fat neighbour " wow this guy here looks impatient". I replied in English that I was sorry I looked impatient, but I needed a bathroom and had been in line for 20 minutes. Memo to self " act dumber in future".

She stamped the passport and threw it back at me.Those who support NAIA and BI people as nice are those who are really subservient and very demure. Try to question them. They go mad. Power mad idiots all in the govt service. Imagine those virtually shivering in their boots and being extremely polite. Or else. You will be subject to secondary screening (whatever term they use to drive anybody nuts.)

Like this trip, I was asked my purpose of visit and I went "visit my wife."

The BI officer goes "oh so you have a wife here." I said "I am offended by your suggestion that I have A Wife. I only have one wife and I am only married once." (of course, one wife don't mean I don't have gfs. Last count, it was just 3.)

She gave me the look and said "You don't have to be rude to us."

Yah right.

Of course I know in The PH grammer. 'you have a wife' is the same as 'you are married to a Filipino. ' though I couldn't resist trying to see how they react.

And when I was leaving, after paying terminal fee, I still had the balance pesos in my hand, and the BI guys after the counter openly asked "sir, you can donate the balance for Christmas fund." I Smiled and said "will I get a receipt." and before he could digest it with a smiling face I moved away.

Cunning Stunt

12-12-13, 09:22

And be able to go back to your home country at least once a year, like maybe around Christmas. Then you won't have to hear the chipmonk version of the 12 Days of Christmas through blown out speakers a million fuckin times.Sure wish that I'd followed your advice. I made the mistake of visiting an SM Hypermarket earlier today and now I've got 'Frosty, the Snowman' going round and round in my head in an endless fucking loop. Its driving me barmy.

X Man

12-12-13, 12:51

Zippo, you lucky dog, I wish I could retire at 54. I haven't been to Chiang Mai, nor Columbia, so I don't have any enlightening information for you. But I think it's a great question and will create a lot of discussion here.

As for question 1, in Ac, it seems some of the long timers do hit the bars regularly. But they sit around and chat with themselves. I personally get bored with the place in less than a week.

If I was thinking about living in Philippines I might look at Cebu or Davao. Nevertheless, if you go to the Manila thread, you'll find several regular posters who seem to live and love the place.

Take a look at the Davao thread and peruse Good Enough's messages. He's not retired, but has a few years under his belt. He's landed on your number 2.

And when I visit Philippines I often meet guys who live in more remote places and seem to have created their own little utopia wherever they are. Different strokes for different folks.

X.

I am considering retirement next year at age 54.

SNIP.

1. In AC for example, are you still going out hitting the bars 3 plus nights a week 1 year into retirement?

2. Do most Expats end up hitting the Bars early in Retirement and then settling down with a steady GF after a few months?

3. Does what seem like a great place for vacation turn out to be a very boring place after a few months?

In essence, does the appeal of the "monger scene" lose its luster after you live there.

Additional data. Do not consider monthly budget as a factor when responding. Also. My plan is to always rent in all locations.

Bumz Rush

12-12-13, 17:45

Risky, if she is / was a bar girl. She has needs that you might not be able to give after a few years.

If you settle in Phils, your GF will become very jealous if you go out without her. She met you in a bar (I assume) and will expect you to go back to old habits.

It is a major problem, to balance the new GF, with your needs.

Try seeking a non WG, difficult I know.

But I managed it, and love the attention I receive, but very aware of the jealous looks, and "discussions".

Be faithful, and you will have a great life in retirement.

Bumz

Wicked Roger

12-13-13, 05:18

Be faithful, and you will have a great life in retirement.

BumzBumz, the word "faithful" and "living in the Philippines" are not words I associate together in the same sentence LOL.

But you are right, the girls suddenly change from a loving and naughty girlfriend who knows who are naughty, goes out with you mates to bars etc and is cool about it to a wife who knows you are naughty and goes to bars with your mates and will not like it!

I had a girlfriend who was jealous of ex girlfriends I have before she was born. Now that was funny (well I thought it was but she took a very dim view of chuckles!)

This is why men can never really understand women am sure LOL.

Bumz Rush

12-13-13, 16:08

Faithful is a big word, which with respect to all the "Old School" in Piper and Wicked is not muttered in the same breath. However it is possible to settle in Phils, and be faithful, but very difficult.

The more you walk around and try just to admire from afar, it is not easy. Just a wander round a mall or two. Life is hard.

Wicked thanks for reminding me that there is life in old age.

Bumz

Hairy Wonder

12-13-13, 20:00

I had a girlfriend who was jealous of ex girlfriends I have before she was born. Now that was funny (well I thought it was but she took a very dim view of chuckles!)

This is why men can never really understand women am sure LOL.I've had the same problem WR. Just couldn't get over the fact that I had been with other women before meeting her. She kept telling me how unfair it was that I was "used goods" when she was fresh. But she loved how my past experiences could be used to teach her how to feel good while making me feel good at the same time. Hahaha We broke up in 2010 because she became a very jealous during video chats. Even though I spent almost all of my free time chatting with her, she started saying that she thought I had a new gf in my bedroom, even while we were chatting. Now she is sending me emails asking for us to get back together. I think about just writing her off as a past experience and enjoying my freedom with many other Filipinas. But then the memories of great sex with her sets in. I've got to figure out how some of these guys have a regular honey that allows them the freedom to monger also.

Enjoy the hobby!

HW

Hairy Wonder

12-13-13, 20:03

A Filipina "friend" on facebook posted this article about the health benefits of daily sex. I think it is a good basis for excusing charges of prostitution. Hahahaha.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=583310388388362&set=a.530638886988846.1073741827.427891673930235&type=1

Enjoy the read!

HW

GoodEnough

12-13-13, 23:46

Zippo, you lucky dog, I wish I could retire at 54. I haven't been to Chiang Mai, nor Columbia, so I don't have any enlightening information for you. But I think it's a great question and will create a lot of discussion here.

As for question 1, in Ac, it seems some of the long timers do hit the bars regularly. But they sit around and chat with themselves. I personally get bored with the place in less than a week.

If I was thinking about living in Philippines I might look at Cebu or Davao. Nevertheless, if you go to the Manila thread, you'll find several regular posters who seem to live and love the place.

Take a look at the Davao thread and peruse Good Enough's messages. He's not retired, but has a few years under his belt. He's landed on your number 2.

And when I visit Philippines I often meet guys who live in more remote places and seem to have created their own little utopia wherever they are. Different strokes for different folks.

X.Just a slight clarification regarding"landed on number 2." My partner and I have been together a long time, but she's a university graduate, never worked in any sort of bar, and was a realtor when I met her. As to the "few years under his belt" comment, it's true.

GE

X Man

12-14-13, 12:18

I'm sorry. I didn't mean it like that. I was thinking of a couple who made it work. Thank you for the clarification. You should have skinned me alive.

Just a slight clarification regarding"landed on number 2." My partner and I have been together a long time, but she's a university graduate, never worked in any sort of bar, and was a realtor when I met her. As to the "few years under his belt" comment, it's true.

GE

Amanut

12-14-13, 22:20

Wicked Roger

12-15-13, 00:16

My question is about the cost of flights. Am I better off to just buy the ticket in Canada or are there better and cheaper options Manila to Australia? From what I can see here it looks like the ticket will be in the $500 to $800 range. Are there better times of year to travel when the airlines tend to run specials. I know that the airlines there tend to throw out some crazy unannounced special prices from time to time.

Thanks for your advice everyone.

NutTry Jetstar and Air Asia. Am doing same and AA via KL is about 21000 pesos including all taxes so $500.

I use Jetstar as reasonable and if you book long time in advance I can get cheaper seats.

Amanut

12-15-13, 18:01

Try Jetstar and Air Asia. Am doing same and AA via KL is about 21000 pesos including all taxes so $500.

I use Jetstar as reasonable and if you book long time in advance I can get cheaper seats.Thanks very much. Still a bit of time away so I will keep an eye on these two.

Wicked Roger

12-15-13, 21:22

Thanks very much. Still a bit of time away so I will keep an eye on these two.I have been booking now as the prices may increase. At the same time for one of the dates I wanted there were no seats left for the day I wanted! (This is for end February / beginning March).

Paulr1950

12-15-13, 22:06

My daughter is in the process of obtaining a visa to work as a nurse in Australia for a year. She will likely be in the Brisbane area. I expect that she will finally be approved and on her way in about March. 2014. I am planning to coordinate my next trip to the Philippines in about May and then carry on to visit her in Australia. I will buy a return seat sale ticket to Manila from Canada and am planning to go onward to Australia and then return to Manila for my return trip back to Canada.

My question is about the cost of flights. Am I better off to just buy the ticket in Canada or are there better and cheaper options Manila to Australia? From what I can see here it looks like the ticket will be in the $500 to $800 range. Are there better times of year to travel when the airlines tend to run specials. I know that the airlines there tend to throw out some crazy unannounced special prices from time to time.

Thanks for your advice everyone.

NutThere is tiger to Singapore from ac and Airasia from Manila I think now to kl then airasia to gold coast, I stay on kl a night as its good place to stay, or Singapore is ok as well, just wait till a sale is on and join up to Airasia. Tiger, and Cebu pacific to get there flyers when they have a sale getting form Singa to kl or visa versa is easy and only about 10? 20$ and some times Royal Bruni have good fares as well.

FreebieFan

12-16-13, 02:19

.

The more you walk around and try just to admire from afar, it is not easy. Just a wander round a mall or two. Life is hard.

BumzIf you ever want to see the definition of " dissapointed and frustrated", take a look at an expat in a mall in Manila. There he is with his (often) fat white wife, a couple of kids. Hes pretending to be the happy loyal dad not seeing the pretty young things in front of him, but if you look, you will see hes slyly seeing all the girls all the while smiling at whatever his wife is saying.

The wife is aware she's 100 pounds heavier than the pretty girls, and at least 10 years older and she's slyly watching her husband.

It happens in every mall every day.

FreebieFan

12-16-13, 03:25

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/467127/man-accidentally-shoots-own-penis-dies

Pip Jaeger

12-16-13, 09:17

If you ever want to see the definition of " dissapointed and frustrated", take a look at an expat in a mall in Manila. There he is with his (often) fat white wife, a couple of kids. Hes pretending to be the happy loyal dad not seeing the pretty young things in front of him, but if you look, you will see hes slyly seeing all the girls all the while smiling at whatever his wife is saying.

The wife is aware she's 100 pounds heavier than the pretty girls, and at least 10 years older and she's slyly watching her husband.

It happens in every mall every day.And it happens in every mall around the world too, not just in Manila. It's fun to sit at a café and watch them, but what really gives me a good laugh is when you're walking through a mall in the Phils with some arm candy and you see one of those guys furtively checking out your girl. You know exactly what he's thinking as he's barely able to keep from drooling. Then he see's you watching him, the "busted" look and sheepish grin that often follows is priceless! And sometimes what's even more priceless is when they get busted by their fat wife. I can only imagine the consequences, LOL.

BrainDrain

12-17-13, 22:04

And it happens in every mall around the world too, not just in Manila. It's fun to sit at a café and watch them, but what really gives me a good laugh is when you're walking through a mall in the Phils with some arm candy and you see one of those guys furtively checking out your girl. You know exactly what he's thinking as he's barely able to keep from drooling. Then he see's you watching him, the "busted" look and sheepish grin that often follows is priceless! And sometimes what's even more priceless is when they get busted by their fat wife. I can only imagine the consequences, LOL.When I'm this guy looking at the monger with the arm candy, far from looking sheepish, I usually give the guy a thumbs up. Kind of a monger's handshake. I hope implying. I'm a monger in husband clothing.

BD

Kirra Dude

12-19-13, 02:02

There is tiger to Singapore from ac and airasia from manila I think now to kl then airasia to gold coast, I stay on kl a night as its good place to stay, or Singapore is ok as well, just wait till a sale is on and join up to airasia. Tiger, and cebu pacific to get there flyers when they have a sale getting form singa to kl or visa versa is easy and only about 10? 20$ and some times royal bruni have good fares as wellHi,

You can also fly to the Gold Coast (1 hour sth by car from Brisbane) with Air Asia and Scoot. Get on there email list. Both are budget operators. The Goldie is a good place to stay for a couple of beach days and you can get bus / train options to Brisbane but does add to the cost overall as well.

Cheers

Cunning Stunt

12-19-13, 04:20

Congrats to any Aussies reading. They will know what I mean. We wuz robbed (only kidding, we were firmly spanked!).

Uncle Goober2

12-19-13, 07:31

Congrats to any Aussies reading. They will know what I mean. We wuz robbed (only kidding, we were firmly spanked!).Many thanks, CS. It was a great relief, after being kicked around by you Poms for the last three series!

Aussie Fella

12-19-13, 12:44

Congrats to any Aussies reading. They will know what I mean. We wuz robbed (only kidding, we were firmly spanked!).Cheers. I was in Thailand for the first 2 tests and spent the second day of the first test sitting with a Pom and it was just nice to be able to chat and enjoy the cricket. We've been down for a few years now but but hopefully we've turned the corner. It's interesting that Johnson only got his spot in the first test by default after a few bowlers ahead of him got injured. Sometimes things just work out.

BeerCans

12-19-13, 12:57

My daughter is in the process of obtaining a visa to work as a nurse in Australia for a year. She will likely be in the Brisbane area. I expect that she will finally be approved and on her way in about March. 2014. I am planning to coordinate my next trip to the Philippines in about May and then carry on to visit her in Australia. I will buy a return seat sale ticket to Manila from Canada and am planning to go onward to Australia and then return to Manila for my return trip back to Canada.

My question is about the cost of flights. Am I better off to just buy the ticket in Canada or are there better and cheaper options Manila to Australia? From what I can see here it looks like the ticket will be in the $500 to $800 range. Are there better times of year to travel when the airlines tend to run specials. I know that the airlines there tend to throw out some crazy unannounced special prices from time to time.

Thanks for your advice everyone.

NutHi mate,

Keep a look at Philippines air lines the do good deals out of Manila to Darwin then to Brisbane its almost a dricet flight. Jets star are now going to stop flights from drwin to Manila as air Philippines taking pepole of them. Air Asia ok in to gold coast but if she going to be living in Brisbane better to get flight to Brisbane as its a pain getting from gold coast airport to train station. Then she looking at a over one hour train trip to central station. Is this going to be her first trip to Australia. My gf tried to get work here in Brisbane as nurse but no luck. If your daughter or your self need any help or in fo on Brisbane drop me a line I may be able to help.

Ps I live in Brisbane.

Radical Guy

12-19-13, 20:32

Tally Wacker

12-20-13, 01:19

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e8e_1387496215

Econo Tech

12-20-13, 03:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojFGo9RN5mY

Look for 2:20 onwards, when you see a clumsy guard cocking his gun, and then at 12:00 onwards, when Private security 'volunteered' to go to the Police station to show proof of their guns (as per the police.) or, to chit chat with the Makati police (as per the sister of the security company owner). While the Dasma management team says they were plain simply arrested.

Binay junior, in his defence, says, he told the cops not to treat the private security bad. And just tell them to show courtesy and Binay Sr says the private security Didn't follow protocol. And then, Miss Binay says the video is proof of haters of her family.

It is Fun in the Philippines.

Hutsori

12-20-13, 05:36

Three dead. Probable assassination. If you're flying Cebu Pacific wear your body armour. Stray bullets.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/340628/news/metromanila/zambo-sur-town-mayor-shot-dead-at-naia-terminal-3

Tally Wacker

12-20-13, 07:11

Bob Bowie

12-20-13, 21:58

I am flying to the Philippines from the US next month, taking Delta. They charge $159 extra to upgrade to an "Economy Comfort" seat for the international part of the trip. They say there is a bit more legroom, more seat recline, and free drinks. Does anyone know if the Economy Comfort upgrade is worth the extra cost?

RGI flew Delta for the first time last month to Manila. I was able to find a seat with an isle on one side and an empty seat next to me by checking the seating chart online. I prefer doing that than spending $200 each way for a couple of extra inches.

Pete Benetar

12-21-13, 01:48

I was able to find a seat with an isle on one side and an empty seat next to me by checking the seating chart online.I've done economy upgrades a few times and the aisle seat option is adequate enough I do the same thing; gives you plenty of room to stretch your legs into the aisles as needed. Exit rows are also great economic options if you can get one.

Either way, it's advisable to get up and walk at least a few paces regularly especially if you are big, overweight, diabetic, smoke, hypertensive etc which are all risk factors for developing a leg clot (deep vein thrombosis) and its potentially lethal brethren (pulmonary embolus or clot thrown to lungs). I don't have any of these risk factors but age over 40 is another risk factor so I take a baby ASA or single 325 mg aspirin the morning of any very long flight to prevent clots. Short of that, staying hydrated, moving around regularly and avoiding your legs latched (eg in middle seat) for long periods helps avoid leg clots. That said, upgrade seats do give you more room and if you're 6 feet or above, on a full flight and can't get an aisle seat, $159 might be a very good investment.

Amanut

12-21-13, 01:52

Hi mate,

Keep a look at Philippines air lines the do good deals out of Manila to Darwin then to Brisbane its almost a dricet flight. Jets star are now going to stop flights from drwin to Manila as air Philippines taking pepole of them. Air Asia ok in to gold coast but if she going to be living in Brisbane better to get flight to Brisbane as its a pain getting from gold coast airport to train station. Then she looking at a over one hour train trip to central station. Is this going to be her first trip to Australia. My gf tried to get work here in Brisbane as nurse but no luck. If your daughter or your self need any help or in fo on Brisbane drop me a line I may be able to help.

Ps I live in Brisbane.Thanks BeerCans. I will do just that. I may have been a bit premature here as she is still in the process of having her credentials verified which has been a rather slow process. She has her youth working holiday visa approved, but won't go until agency confirms her RN status and that she can work as a nurse there. She applied to agency in Brisbane but wants to work on gulf coast. I am going to have to brush up on my geography.

Tally Wacker

12-21-13, 02:25

I've done economy upgrades a few times and the aisle seat option is adequate enough I do the same thing; gives you plenty of room to stretch your legs into the aisles as needed. Exit rows are also great economic options if you can get one.I recently made the mistake of paying extra for an exit row seat so I could get extra leg room since I'm 6'4". The problem was the tray table was one that flipped down in to the side arm rest making the seat width another 2" or more narrower. It was an uncomfortable 13 hour flight.

Rwk3137

12-21-13, 05:48

I recently made the mistake of paying extra for an exit row seat so I could get extra leg room since I'm 6'4". The problem was the tray table was one that flipped down in to the side arm rest making the seat width another 2" or more narrower. It was an uncomfortable 13 hour flight.Best solution I have found is Seatguru.com

Manny51

12-21-13, 06:46

Streetlooker

12-21-13, 08:09

[QUOTE=Manny51; 1510219]I have been trying to plan a trip to the PI, but in my research, have been shocked by the travel times everywhere. It seems like everything is an 8 hour bus ride. Why is that? Is it that the roads are bad? Traffic slow?

The Rice Terraces are a 9 hour bus ride from Manila. NINE HOURS!

Has anyone ever rented a car in the PI? Why aren't more people talking about that?

And before anyone comments on it, I would NOT drive in Manila. Just from the airport to everywhere else.

Thanks in advance! [/QUOTe.

To many cars and buses not enough roads and highways. The bus stops along the way makes the trip longer But the bus is the way to go most places and I never thought it to be a hassle even on times when I got on some pretty packed buses

Pip Jaeger

12-21-13, 09:26

They charge $159 extra to upgrade to an "Economy Comfort" seat for the international part of the trip. They say there is a bit more legroom, more seat recline, and free drinks.I don't think the seats recline that much more then the standard ones, you get about 3 to 4 inches of extra leg room and beer & wine are already included in your fare on the international leg. For me it's not worth it, but if you're over 6'2" tall and / or really fat then it might just be a viable option.

But here's another way to think spending your hard earned cash. At the current FXR, USD 159. 00 equals about 6, 900p. That equates to about 8 ST bar fines plus about 500p left over for a dinner and / or a few drinks; or 3-4 LT barfines and about 900p left over. So what's more important, a few inches of leg room or hours upon hours of pleasure? And that's just if you pay for the seat upgrade for one way; double it for the round trip or you can double your pleasure too, LOL.

For me the choice is obvious. I'd grab an aisle seat at the standard fare and add the $159 (or $318 for RT) to my mongering budget.

FLT09

12-21-13, 11:15

I'm 6'5" and I always fly Delta when I go back to the States. The best thing to do is download the delta app. Right before they start boarding, check the seating chart and make a change. The exit row seats, unless you get one with no seats in front of it, do not have any extra space. On long flights there are usually empty seats, I just change to a seat that has another empty seat next to it using the app. Much better than the exit row. Also, the flight staff is always very accommodating, especially to tall people. They will always look for something better for you, with the exception of an upgrade.

FLT.

Wicked Roger

12-21-13, 11:42

, but if you're over 6'2" tall and / or really fat then it might just be a viable option.

For me the choice is obvious. I'd grab an aisle seat at the standard fare and add the $159 (or $318 for RT) to my mongering budget.What if you are both Pip? Don't answer that it is rhetorical LOL.

For me Delta is not an airline I call first class. I have flown the carrier and never enjoyed it especially long haul. But I appreciate those who live in the USA have limited choice if one wants an affordable option.

I agree with Pip that regardless of size etc save the see ash for more important matters LOL.

Mongerer69

12-21-13, 17:15

Amanut

12-21-13, 18:25

For some, Philippine Airlines may offer an answer. They have a flight out of Las Vegas with a short stopover in Vancouver then direct to Manila. If you book on Monday, Wednesday or Friday they use their 777 which is never full. As soon as the doors are closed tell the flight attendant that you are looking to sit alone and they will let you move to the back to chose another seat. Any time I have flown on this flight I have had all four seats in the center row to myself and stretched out. It leaves Vancouver around midnight arriving Manila at around 05:00 so immigration is pretty quick at that time of day with no other flights arriving. I could save a few dollars with other airlines but like the idea of getting there by a direct flight. The rest of the fleet, at least from Canada are pieces of crap.

They will also let you have an exit row with lots of leg room for $50 which I have tried but I found out the arm rests in those seats do not lift up and ended up moving back anyway.

Tally Wacker

12-21-13, 18:26

I have been trying to plan a trip to the PI, but in my research, have been shocked by the travel times everywhere. It seems like everything is an 8 hour bus ride. Why is that? Is it that the roads are bad? Traffic slow?

The Rice Terraces are a 9 hour bus ride from Manila. NINE HOURS!

Has anyone ever rented a car in the PI? Why aren't more people talking about that?

And before anyone comments on it, I would NOT drive in Manila. Just from the airport to everywhere else.

Thanks in advance!I rented a car once and drove from Manila to Santiago, Isabela which was about a 10 hour drive plus a few wrong turns. Rental cars are very expensive and if you break down it would be a problem getting assistance. The roads are not marked well and there are no street lights so its easy to make a wrong turn and good luck getting accurate directions from a local. Once out of Manila the roads were open and the scenery was great. Remember that most roads go through the center of every little town and city so there will be traffic. It was a fun experience and we were lucky there were no mishaps.

Busses are probably the better mode of transportation and are inexpensive. The air conditioned busses usually make less stops and are not as packed with people but are slightly more expensive. I took a bus from Puerto Princesa, Palawan to El Nido which was a great experience. The first bus available was a non air conditioned one but it was a newer style bus with decent seats. My gf arranged the driver to move his things off the seat right behind him so we could sit there which gave us more leg room and a great view out the front window. Having the window down made a cool breeze and I was able to take some nice photos as we traveled. The bus stopped many times to pick up and drop off people and when school let out the driver allowed the kids to jump on and ride for free to get home. It was great to get a taste of the people that live along the roadside but took forever to get to our destination.

The newer bus below was the one we took and the other bus over packed with people and farm animals I just had to take a photo of.

Member #4698

12-21-13, 20:28

I rented a car once and drove from Manila to Santiago, Isabela which was about a 10 hour drive plus a few wrong turns. Rental cars are very expensive and if you break down it would be a problem getting assistance. The roads are not marked well and there are no street lights so its easy to make a wrong turn and good luck getting accurate directions from a local. Once out of Manila the roads were open and the scenery was great. Remember that most roads go through the center of every little town and city so there will be traffic. It was a fun experience and we were lucky there were no mishaps.It does sound like a great time. I have been planning a road trip like this for awhile. From AC or Subic, depending on where I rent a car, I want to take the coastal highway all the way up to Pagudpup stopping overnight at places like San Fernando and Vigan. Then spend as much time as we want at Maira-Ira Beach before taking the mountain road back through Tuguegarao, Tabuk, and Sagada. I think 10 days is the minimum I should plan for a trip like this. I have narrowed down my possible travelling companion to two great little girls. On my next trip to PI I will select one of them.

JPF

12-21-13, 21:39

I rented a car in the PI for the first time on my last trip and it was nice having the freedom to explore around the small towns easily. However, the biggest negative is that the roads are full of slow moving pedestrians, bikes, trikes, farm vehicles, etc. And you have to be very alert. I was most afraid of the kids walking to / from school who weren't watching traffic but were playing with their friends as they walked (or ran, skipped, etc.). I have taken many long distance buses (4 on the last trip) and think that is a better way to travel in the PI.

On a previous trip I went to the rice terraces in a car with a driver / guide. It wasn't much faster than the bus as some of the roads were being worked on and we had to wait for long periods of time. You have to be prepared to relax and not worry about time (like the locals).

I have been trying to plan a trip to the PI, but in my research, have been shocked by the travel times everywhere. It seems like everything is an 8 hour bus ride. Why is that? Is it that the roads are bad? Traffic slow?

The Rice Terraces are a 9 hour bus ride from Manila. NINE HOURS!

Has anyone ever rented a car in the PI? Why aren't more people talking about that?

And before anyone comments on it, I would NOT drive in Manila. Just from the airport to everywhere else.

Thanks in advance!

DriveAllNight

12-22-13, 01:16

I have done them all from the states. Cathay Pacific is by far the best Airline servicing the US to Manila. Thru Hong Kong, plus we get to stop over in HK at no charge to play in Wanchai for a couple of nites. US United and Delta carriers suck long haul with their Bitchy Grandma Flight Attendants and charging for drinks and other things. I am going to Asia to forget about bitchy American ladies I don't want to be reminded of them in flight. ANA is not much better and food sucks too much Japanese. China Airlines suck also. For me and my travelling companions for about $200 more than US carriers you can't compare the service food and comfort of Cathay Pacific. Their Flight Attendants look like Porcelain Dolls and are so friendly and accommodating. Cathay is indeed in a different league.Agree 100 percent, Cathay is the best to Asia. Beautiful attendants, nearly always on-time, no lost luggage, and their VIP lounge in HK is the nicest I've seen. Also, their Premium Economy seats are perfect for those who want some extra room and / or booze but don't want to shell out for Business or First.

The Cathay lounge is the only thing I actually like about HK.

GoodEnough

12-22-13, 01:29

First, on the subject of airlines, I agree that Cathay Pacific is the best, though I've not flown Singapore Airlines to the States. I took Korean Airlines to New York in August, and in September back to the Philippines from LA, and while it wasn't bad, it wasn't as good as Cathay, and the seats in Business Class were not as comfortable.

As to road transportation, there are no good options. The road transport infrastructure is a shambles, with little investment, poor design, spotty maintenance and unsafe drivers. I've been driving here for 10+years and if anything it's getting worse: no law enforcement, undisciplined drivers, and the roads are full of vehicles that would never be permitted to operate in most countries. That said, I don't agree that buses present a safer alternative. As evidenced by the bus accident last week in Manila that killed about 18 people, the buses are poorly maintained, the drivers are reckless, and they're reputed often to take amphetamines to stay awake. I think renting a car and driving yourself is marginally safer however driving here is not for the faint of heart.

This is a country that, platitudes of the politicians aside, cares little for public safety and it's entire transport sector provides evidence of this contention.

GE

Mongerer69

12-22-13, 02:37

Have you ever stayed in Wanchai HK? Every trip to PI I do a 2 night stay over in Wanchai with my friend and have the time of my life with. Admittedly. More expensive Filipinas, Indos, Vietnamese. I really enjoy the club scene in Wanchai. Amazonia (Ice Box Band) Rock and Roll. It is the perfect way to begin or end a trip to the Philippines.

The Cathay lounge is the only thing I actually like about HK.

Hutsori

12-22-13, 05:39

Whoops, wrong thread.

Slippery

12-22-13, 06:29

I dunno, I put CP there with Korean Air. From Chicago to Hong Kong is one of the longest flights on the globe and that's on CP. I've done it a few times and its just toooooooo long. I break things up by going from Chicago to Incheon on Korean Air. A break at Incheon and 3+ hours to Manila. Excellent treatment by both airlines both on the ground and in the air.

Johan Waans

12-24-13, 14:23

Redman69

12-24-13, 15:00

I have opened two accounts on two occasions in RP. Both with BPI which is owned by a Ayla sub. It takes 20 working days for US checks to clear. You need to open a account with a min. Of 500 dollars and it will be called a dollar account. You can get a ATM card also. All I can say is from experience all things in RP. Are subject to change. So today you might not be able to do what I said.

HSBC, has a program if you keep 100K in your US account you can tap it from anywhere in the world we no fees. I do not know your price range. But there are Branches in Manila and Cebu that I have seen. If you are traveling that part of the world. And can afford it. I would say that HSBC is the best way to go as you can tap your funds where ever there is a branch. If in the special program of a min. 100K.

Wicked Roger

12-25-13, 04:21

Guys,

I am trying to decide in which country to retire. Regarding Philippines : is it possible to travel to Philippines

For one month and to open a bank account without the ACRI card. Because I would like to return to my country for 2 months to.

Deal with all the legal issues and transfer money into that account and then return to Philippines and apply for the ACRI card after 59 days. Thanks in advance.I would speak to the bank in your home country and see if it has a correspondent bank in the Philippines. If so try and pen an account in the country from your home base bank.

If not for all local banks I think you will need to show you are a resident.

As Redman says try HSBC. If you are an existing account holder it is easy to open an account here but check the minimum amount to hold in the account. If a Premier holder there is not such nonsense and it is simple to open. If not there is a minimum account balance but is not $100k it is much less and in pesos. Also get a dollar and pesos account

Best is to seek out HSBC in your home country and see hat it advises for the Philippines.

Johan Waans

12-25-13, 15:17

Thank you for the information, guys. I found 3 banks which have a branch in my country. HSBC is not one of them.

I guess I will just travel to Philippines and see what happens. As I am used to dealing with none Western economies.

As a last resort I can always transfer my accounts to one of these 3 banks in my home country.

Wicked Roger

12-25-13, 15:46

As a last resort I can always transfer my accounts to one of these 3 banks in my home country.If you are not happy with the local banks and can't open from your home country I would do the above, and visit HSBC as the staff helped me open accounts and it is fairly quick.

Red Kilt

12-25-13, 15:55

As Redman says try HSBC. If you are an existing account holder it is easy to open an account here but check the minimum amount to hold in the account. If a Premier holder there is not such nonsense and it is simple to open. If not there is a minimum account balance but is not $100k it is much less and in pesos. Also get a dollar and pesos account

Best is to seek out HSBC in your home country and see hat it advises for the Philippines.Remember that each HSBC is a franchised operation for each country even though they are a linked international bank.

This means that HSBC Philippines is a separate entity and subject to Philippines banking laws (including how much of your deposit is insured).

However, the HSBC ATMs everywhere are linked and it is easy to withdraw cash anywhere in the world (in my experience, and I have used them in HK, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and Australia with ease).

Special arrangements can be made whereby you pay zero fees for withdrawals. For example, if you deposit whole-of-salary or maybe whole pension cheque in your account each month you will get special benefits.

Econo Tech

12-26-13, 02:38

Remember that each HSBC is a franchised operation for each country even though they are a linked international bank.

This means that HSBC Philippines is a separate entity and subject to Philippines banking laws (including how much of your deposit is insured).

However, the HSBC ATMs everywhere are linked and it is easy to withdraw cash anywhere in the world (in my experience, and I have used them in HK, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and Australia with ease).

Special arrangements can be made whereby you pay zero fees for withdrawals. For example, if you deposit whole-of-salary or maybe whole pension cheque in your account each month you will get special benefits.Didn't know how HSBC operated, but in PH Law, foreigners can only own 40, so sure anybody doing business will have to rope in a local partner.

Shango

12-27-13, 10:23

Soapy Smith

12-27-13, 19:16

Where is it best to spend New Year's in the Philippines? Manila? Cebu? Davao? Or Angeles City? The simple answer is: it depends; but I was wondering where you think the most fun is to be had. Currently I'm in Cebu. It's a nice place. Lots of girls in the malls, but a bit low-key and I'm not sure about the quality of nightlife for a New Year's celebration.The problem with your question is that, not only does it "depend" (on what kind of experience you want), but individuals' answers hinge on their tastes and experiences, and these may be quite different than your own. A better question might be, "in which city do sufficient numbers of women remain over New Years rather than retreat home to the provinces"? I think somebody asked this question in one of the threads, maybe this one, a couple weeks ago. You need to do some homework.

More important, it would behoove you to pay up the 20 USD and join the forum officially. Experienced mongers are much more willing to impart information if they think you are not a freerider. Then check out threads for the various cities, note who spends time in each one and has tastes similar to yours, and ask them privately via PM. Then you can also carry on a give-and-take conversation to get at the details. This all takes some focused effort; if you've spent enough to be in the Philippines over the holidays, you should not squander the opportunity by depending on "quick and dirty" inquiries. Joining the forum is one of the best $20 investments you'll ever make.

Wicked Roger

12-28-13, 03:05

Have a question for the senior members: Where is it best to spend New Year's in the Philippines? Manila? Cebu? Davao? Or Angeles City? The simple answer is: it depends; but I was wondering where you think the most fun is to be had. Currently I'm in Cebu. It's a nice place. Lots of girls in the malls, but a bit low-key and I'm not sure about the quality of nightlife for a New Year's celebration.

Any advice, suggestions, or opinions are welcome.

Thanks in advance!Cebu is great at New Years but as Skip said, no one will PM you as you have zero PM facility. Also you have 3 FRs all asking question (2 being the same in Cuba). If you give you get (as many have said and this board repeatedly before) and there is always Google to find the answers to your questions or RTFF if you go through some of the archives etc.

Google is the best bet I think plenty of information there.

Red Kilt

12-28-13, 09:33

Didn't know how HSBC operated, but in PH Law, foreigners can only own 40, so sure anybody doing business will have to rope in a local partner.Note that under Philippine Law, the PDIC is only liable for 500, 000 php maximum if any bank goes belly-up (unlikely with HSBC Philippines)

http://www.pdic.gov.ph/index.php?nid1=6&nid2=1&nid3=4

You can check out all the details of HSBC Philippines here:

http://www.hsbc.com.ph/1/2/personal

ET's comment about ". Foreigners can only own 40." refers to ownership of either a business or, more importantly, a condo. Only 40% of the units can be owned by foreigners, so it is worth checking this before you buy.

Riverstar

12-28-13, 12:19

Thinking about a short visit (one week) in March to use up some air miles before they expire I was considering Cebu or Davao just wondering what would be my best bet

Hutsori

12-28-13, 22:32

Thinking about a short visit (one week) in March to use up some air miles before they expire I was considering Cebu or Davao just wondering what would be my best betI think you'll like Cebu.

Nolz7

12-29-13, 14:23

Thinking about a short visit (one week) in March to use up some air miles before they expire I was considering Cebu or Davao just wondering what would be my best betCebu hands down!

Soapy Smith

12-29-13, 20:26

ET's comment about ". Foreigners can only own 40." refers to ownership of either a business or, more importantly, a condo. Only 40% of the units can be owned by foreigners, so it is worth checking this before you buy.This rule has been discussed many times in the forum. But what I don't understand are the many businesses in sex tourist areas owned by foreigners. Various reports about bars and hotels in AC and Subic, for example, in which posters refer to an Xpat "owner." Similarly, several Australian-owned small hotels in Ermita, and G-Point bar (Norwegian, I think?) , and maybe even MBC is reported to have foreign owners. I would be interested to know what one of these typical ownership models looks like.

Wicked Roger

12-29-13, 23:05

This rule has been discussed many times in the forum. But what I don't understand are the many businesses in sex tourist areas owned by foreigners. Various reports about bars and hotels in AC and Subic, for example, in which posters refer to an Xpat "owner." Similarly, several Australian-owned small hotels in Ermita, and G-Point bar (Norwegian, I think?) , and maybe even MBC is reported to have foreign owners. I would be interested to know what one of these typical ownership models looks like.As far as I know all have silent partners who are pinoys as the rule is the rule. There maybe some legal juggling with shares issued etc and a Filipino corporation but ultimately there is a pinoy partner somewhere in the deep and distant background IMHO.

Slippery

12-30-13, 02:37

As far as I know all have silent partners who are pinoys as the rule is the rule. There maybe some legal juggling with shares issued etc and a Filipino corporation but ultimately there is a pinoy partner somewhere in the deep and distant background IMHO.Yes, a senator, congressman, mayor, barangay captain, puroc official, etc. And ohhhhhhh, I forgot the highly regulated and honorable attorneys in the country. Sometimes, a wife. BTW, G Point owner is Swedish.

Econo Tech

12-30-13, 04:16

As far as I know all have silent partners who are pinoys as the rule is the rule. There maybe some legal juggling with shares issued etc and a Filipino corporation but ultimately there is a pinoy partner somewhere in the deep and distant background IMHO.You are right, from my business friends in PH.

If you want to go it alone, you can do, by forming shadow companies, who take up a portion of the stake etc. Etc. But somewhere, you need to get a Few Filipinos onboard. And if you even [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off the locals, and if it goes big time, they can make sure all your investment is forefeited,

For those who are not in the know, a lot of Oligarchs in PH didn't make money the traditional way. Though they will claim otherwise: they took over foreign assets forefeited, by making govt pledge the loans and the like. I. E they spent almost nothing to take over businesses worth billions.

Of course, the govts in charge always claimed they did the best in the interests of the working populace, by guaranteeing the loans. And the poor public believe the govt did the best, and the poor foreign investor is left to lick his wounds, and as per PH Law, any foreigner who violates local law must be deported, so he would have been kicked out long time ago.

BTW, do some reading on the Supreme court's decision in kicking Fedex out, since, as per PH Law, foreigners cannot engage in local utilities, and a few UP and Ateneo Law Profs came out in Defence of the Supreme court. Despite the fact that Fedex had partnered with local delivery teams, the point raised was Fedex didn't have local partners on board. (I. E. So the local partners can milk the profits without putting up much capital.) now try figuring that out.

If that's not an example of Philippines Protectionism, tell me what it is.

Heck, when one of the famous Local cigerette makers was accused of avoiding taxes, his defence was "go after the foreign companies, like Philipp Morris and the like. Heck, you mus invoke laws to protect local manufacturers like us." despite the fact Philip Morris is manufactiuring locally and employing thousands, the point is, it is foreign, so it is fair game.

Welcome to doing business in Philippines. You can never expect 100% of your profits, as you have to give off 50 to 60% to a local.

Red Kilt

12-31-13, 04:55

Tally Wacker

12-31-13, 05:11

Econo Tech

12-31-13, 05:25

At least they are trying to sort out this bad habit.

The last line of the article is the key point for those of us who work here and attend meetings.

http://anc.yahoo.com/news/dost-aims-to-change-negative-connotation-of-

%E2%80%98filipino-time%E2%80%99-060938264. HtmlMe still says mixed priorities, like the the senate was fighting over an anti-planking law, and another one over felicitations for a Miss something or other winner. And now Marcos fighting tooth and nail over his "Half cup rice" law.

There are bigger things to worry about, me thinks.

OneIpole

12-31-13, 06:26

KongKing

12-31-13, 09:34

Wow just think if they tried to introduce daylight savings there.What I think is needed here is a permanent time zone shift, not a seasonal daylight savings. We are in the same time zone as Singapore, a two and a half hour flight to the west. It means that at this time of the year (shortest day-length, longest night) daylight starts much earlier, well before 6am, and gets dark quicker, before 6pm, than in Singapore which enjoys daylight to well after 7pm.

There are significant economic, safety and social benefits if daylight hours were positioned more to the end of the day than to the beginning. More people are at home at 5-7am, even asleep, when it is light and more people are up and about, returning from work, or school at 5-7pm, when it is dark or getting dark in the Philippines. Less power is consumed with lighter hours at 5-7pm, roads are safer, and there is more opportunity for social activities. The Philippines would be better off if they moved to a GMT +9 time-zone and into the same time as Japan and Korea.

KongKing

Pip Jaeger

12-31-13, 12:08

Wow just think if they tried to introduce daylight savings there.Yeah right, that would not only add more confusion to an already confused country, but every spring it would also give the populace another excuse for being late; and not just one hour, but two (and they'd milk it out through the summer)! On the other hand, for a day or two in the fall they might actually be on time or even a little early! Imagine the horror? LOL

Wicked Roger

12-31-13, 17:18

At least they are trying to sort out this bad habit.

The last line of the article is the key point for those of us who work here and attend meetings.

http://anc.yahoo.com/news/dost-aims-to-change-negative-connotation-of-

%E2%80%98filipino-time%E2%80%99-060938264. HtmlThe odd thing RK is when they are OWWs this bad habit never appears. I was keen to employ Filipinos as generally on time, no crap and did a diligent job.

So, what is it about this country, is it the water? The fact that the jeepneys rarely leave on time (that excuse I have heard many times) , the fact they seem to love to sleep all day and ignore any alarm? Who knows but to me this is a conundrum.

DriveAllNight

12-31-13, 20:50

There are basically two ways for a foreigner to open a business here.

1. You have o have a deposit of $200, 000. 00 USD IN a Philippine bank. The you can be 100% owner of a business and open it Philippines.

2. You must have a Filipino partner or partners who are resident Filipinos born here. Plus there needs to be a total of 5 directors of the company. The majority (3) must be Filipino. Then you do not need to put down anything except $1, 000. 00 USD in local bank. If you go this way here is the catch. Your Partner / s must have 60% of the company. They have the controlling interest. Now, there are ways to "figure out" how you set up your partners and they even do not have to know each other. There are some ways which are legal to make sure you get the controlling interest.

Anyways that is basically it. Its pretty easy to open and you can hire a consultant to do all the work. You just have to pay thier price. And the Fuckers really give it to you.Interesting. I never heard about the first option of depositing $200k in a Philippine bank.

I myself went with the second option, the one requiring 5 Filipino partners. With respect to the legal methods of retaining "controlling interest" in the company that you mention, my tactic was to designate the Filipinos as "B" class shareholders with no corporate voting / administrative rights, while designating myself the sole "A" class shareholder with full rights.

Radical Guy

12-31-13, 21:50

There are basically two ways for a foreigner to open a business here.

1. You have o have a deposit of $200, 000. 00 USD IN a Philippine bank. The you can be 100% owner of a business and open it Philippines.With the corrupt and impotent governmental and legal infrastructure they have there, I wouldn't put twenty cents in a Philippine bank!

RG

Dashing Don

12-31-13, 22:45

Thanks Radical for calling a spade a spade. All the discussions about Philippine legalities and how to protect oneself are meaningless. The whole country is basically medieval. Its a fiefdom. Importing legal concepts from the West is a waste of time. Sperm deposits are the only deposits worth making.

OneIpole

12-31-13, 23:57

Interesting. I never heard about the first option of depositing $200k in a Philippine bank.

I myself went with the second option, the one requiring 5 Filipino partners. With respect to the legal methods of retaining "controlling interest" in the company that you mention, my tactic was to designate the Filipinos as "B" class shareholders with no corporate voting / administrative rights, while designating myself the sole "A" class shareholder with full rights.That's a interesting idea. I split up the shares so no one person has more than my 40. I am the majority share holder, and the other share holders do not know of or have meet each other. Once I have the $200,000 (which can also be held in things like owned equipment and products) I will than remove the other share holders.

Econo Tech

01-01-14, 08:58

With the corrupt and impotent governmental and legal infrastructure they have there, I wouldn't put twenty cents in a Philippine bank!

RGDon't sound so paranoid.

Whenever any bank went down, the owner's other businesses were left untouched, including the owner's other banks (if he had any). But BSP made sure every depositor got back the maximum of 50,000 peso, as per Local law.

See, it is not that bad. LOL.

A recent case is LBC Bank, closed, but the bosses are rolling in big $ as always as the BSP can't touch them legally, nor do they have any interest. And all depositors got back their maximum 50,000 p.

If you want to do big time robbery, open a bank. In Philippines.

Econo Tech

01-02-14, 03:38

That's a interesting idea. I split up the shares so no one person has more than my 40. I am the majority share holder, and the other share holders do not know of or have meet each other. Once I have the $200,000 (which can also be held in things like owned equipment and products) I will than remove the other share holders.Yah, and hope your lawyer doesn't play you off? Yah right. Did you ever figure out how most of the info leak happens whenever there is a high profile hoo-haa in PH?

And why lawyers are often targeted for murder, even if they never go for Criminal cases? For latter, that's because a lot of proxy property is relieved from owners, by lawyers.

Lawyers? Well, guess who make up the majority of the senate and congress? Lawyers.

OneIpole

01-02-14, 07:32

Yah, and hope your lawyer doesn't play you off? Yah right. Did you ever figure out how most of the info leak happens whenever there is a high profile hoo-haa in PH?

And why lawyers are often targeted for murder, even if they never go for Criminal cases? For latter, that's because a lot of proxy property is relieved from owners, by lawyers.

Lawyers? Well, guess who make up the majority of the senate and congress? Lawyers.Sounds just like the USA. Lawyers suck!

Screaming Beaver

01-03-14, 23:30

And why lawyers are often targeted for murder, even if they never go for Criminal cases? For latter, that's because a lot of proxy property is relieved from owners, by lawyers.I'm surprised more are not murdered in the US. They serve no value to society.

D Cups

01-04-14, 03:11

Sounds just like the USA. Lawyers suck!Agreed but sometimes they are a necessary evil (and infrequently benevolent). Most of them would sell their mother to make money. I have met even stupid attorneys which amazes me given the rigorous course of study. Surely we have mongers who are attorneys and equally sure they are used to the occupational criticism.

Slippery

01-04-14, 03:44

Don't sound so paranoid.

Whenever any bank went down, the owner's other businesses were left untouched, including the owner's other banks (if he had any). But BSP made sure every depositor got back the maximum of 50, 000 peso, as per Local law.

See, it is not that bad. LOL.

A recent case is LBC Bank, closed, but the bosses are rolling in big $ as always as the BSP can't touch them legally, nor do they have any interest. And all depositors got back their maximum 50, 000 p.

If you want to do big time robbery, open a bank. In Philippines.You can probably do alot better if you open one in USA.

Red Kilt

01-04-14, 05:08

Whenever any bank went down, the owner's other businesses were left untouched, including the owner's other banks (if he had any). But BSP made sure every depositor got back the maximum of 50, 000 peso, as per Local law.

A recent case is LBC Bank, closed, but the bosses are rolling in big $ as always as the BSP can't touch them legally, nor do they have any interest. And all depositors got back their maximum 50, 000 p.I know your response was tongue-in-cheek ET but the actual regulation covers accounts up to a 500, 000 php maximum and not 50, 000 php.

http://www.pdic.gov.ph/index.php?nid1=6&nid2=1&nid3=4

So the obvious conclusion is to keep your balance under 500, 000 php in your Philippines account (especially if you are paranoid).

Econo Tech

01-04-14, 06:19

I know your response was tongue-in-cheek ET but the actual regulation covers accounts up to a 500, 000 php maximum and not 50, 000 php.

http://www.pdic.gov.ph/index.php?nid1=6&nid2=1&nid3=4

So the obvious conclusion is to keep your balance under 500, 000 php in your Philippines account (especially if you are paranoid).Oh, its 500k peso? I stand corrected then. Thanks for correcting t.

So there you gave it folks.

If you are prudent don't keep more than 500k peso in each bank.

Red Kilt

01-05-14, 05:41

Oh, its 500k peso? I stand corrected then. Thanks for correcting t.

So there you gave it folks.

If you are prudent don't keep more than 500k peso in each bank.I don't want to labour the point too much or appear pedantic or paranoid but in the Philippines the fine print is very important and so guys who live here or are staying here for extended times and want to move larger amounts of cash into their Philippines account should be careful they are depositors in one of the larger banks.

In addition to my post #7519 and ET's comment above about being prudent, note that the 500k PDIC Insurance covers the balance of all your accounts added together, so if you have a USD account and a PHP account in the same bank, you should keep the TOTAL balance below 500k php.

If you are in one of the major banks that are linked to the huge corporations (such as BDO, BPI, Metrobank) or HSBC Phils, you shouldn't be too concerned about your money but the large number of other banks that seem to be everywhere in different cities might be susceptible to closure (as happened last year with Rural Bank of San Fernando (Cebu) and Export and Industry Bank (Export Bank) in 2012 (which, incidentally, was one of the larger banks).

With the staggering amount of money involved with the current on-going "pork barrel scam", there may be some problems emerge if people holding billions hidden away in one of the smaller, "private" banks decide they want to shift it elsewhere. That's why I maintain an Australian bank account as well.

OneIpole

01-05-14, 09:09

I'm surprised more are not murdered in the US. They serve no value to society.Haha. I agree. Between Politicians and lawyers I don't know who the biggest pieces of shit are!

WestCoast1

01-05-14, 10:53

Not sure what forum to post this.

I'm sure you've all been amused or at least noticed the strong desire of filipinas to marry, and their lack of understanding of those persons who don't want to get married. They often, in chat (internet or in person) will want to know why I don't want to remarry. Recently I ran into a pinoy taxi driver who discovered in talking that I'm not married (they can on occasion be quite chatty and quite nosy).

I hopped into a taxi one afternoon and the driver was chatty. Two days later I was transferring hotels, and the same driver picked me up. Same chatty guy, early 20's. Halfway to the destination:

"So you have filipina wife here." No son, I don't.

"So you have filipina gf here." Not so.

"But you want to marry filipina yes?" No, I don't want to get married.

"You mean you will marry later? Filipina yes?" No, stud, I don't want to get married again. That caused consternation.

"Sir, can I ask? Why not marry?" Too hard to explain son, my previous marriage was a mistake. I'm not marriage material, nor do I want to be.

"But sir we have many good pilipina here." Yes, I know. I did not share with him that I've photographed quite a number of 'good' filipinas who were (at the time) married pinay who were glad to a) cheat on her hubby, and be) vainly show her body for photographs.

We rode on in silence for a few minutes and he came back to the subject again. It was gnawing at him, the same way I've seen pinay come back to the subject repeatedly. I cut the conversation off by suggesting we change the subject, and we did. Then, a few minutes later as I was stepping out of the taxi at my new hotel:

"Sir, you wait." He was fishing in his shirt pocket. He pulled out a piece of paper with his phone number on it."You call me if you need taxi. We can talk it you marry girl here." Wow!