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Red Kilt
07-24-18, 09:31
If you really want to know LKY's thoughts on the Philippines, please read "From Third World to First" authored by LKY.Good call Blanq.

I just pulled my copy off the shelf and read Chapter 18 again. LKY certainly did not like the way that the Philippines kowtowed to the USA and suggested that he would not go down that path.

Blanquiceleste
07-24-18, 15:35
Good call Blanq.

I just pulled my copy off the shelf and read Chapter 18 again. LKY certainly did not like the way that the Philippines kowtowed to the USA and suggested that he would not go down that path.Back in 1983 after Senator Ninoy Aquino was assassinated, most banks around the world blocked their loans to the Phiippines and started calling the loans up in protest. At that time, President Marcos sent his Trade & Commerce Minister, Bobby Ongpin to Singapore to plead with LKY for a funding of $300 mn - $500 mn to pay the interest on some of the loans. LKY looked him blankly in the eye and said "No. We will never see that money again if we give it to you. ".

A true visionary. 35 years later, today we still have people "lending" money to Pinoys hoping they will get it back one day. Sigh.

Soapy Smith
07-24-18, 16:43
Even if the US had not taken whatever PM alludes to from the Philippines way back when, the chances that your average bar girl, fisherman, or farmer would be benefiting from it today (or even back then) are no doubt nil. "No doubt"? Seems like kind of a historical leap of faith about how things might have turned out 120 years later had the United States not taken the Philippines under the end of a gun barrel. As Hutsori points out, the devil is usually in the details.

Hutsori, your post is a rarity in the forum, where most people want to focus on the old "in-out, in-out. " Lots of background here on the Igorot, and I always appreciate learning this kind of stuff. Could you point me to sources where I could learn more about this history? PM if you prefer. While your report is accurate as to the limited goods valuable enough to ship from the Philippines to Spanish America, the Manila Galleons did transport goods from China through the Philippines to the Americas, including spices and porcelain.


Odd that someone with a moniker like "Pedro Morales" is so unaware of what was once known as Imperial Spain, an empire so oppressive that all of its colonies, except for the Philippines had liberated themselves from it in 1898. They had long been ousted from South America. When Cuba had enough, though their act of revolution started an odd of turn of events for Cuba, the US and the PI.


Anyone who has spend anytime in Asia inevitably muses to the effect the various colonizers had on their respective domains: Consider Malaysia viz-a-viz adjacent Indonesia; the French domains; independent Thailand, etc. And anyone has obviously noted more similarities between the Philippines and Central America than with Asia.A couple guys named Acemoglu and Robinson, in a book titled **Why Nations Fail**, reinforce what both E and G are suggesting here. They argue that colonizers took two distinctly different approaches to their colonies. Countries such as Britain and some other European colonizers undertook a sort of "inclusive" approach, creating institutions patterned after those in the mother country, with the idea that these colonies could eventually become self-governing. Other countries, notably Spain and Portugal, built institutions intended primarily to support "extraction," institutions that were generally guided by forceful and oppressive control. These guys contend that extractive institutions arose in part because the colonizers feared their captive colonials.

Examples such as the United States, Canada, and Australia speak to the effects of inclusive institutions. Other more recent nation-states could also be cited. Latin American countries and the Philippines provide evidence of the effects of extractive institutions. Hutsori may be correct that the Spanish intent for the Philippines was largely for logistical support rather than extracting resources, but their approach was clearly oppressive and forceful, with little intent to set up the Philippines with self-supporting institutions.

PedroMorales
07-24-18, 17:35
The Philippines got a post war lift and LKY hoped to aspire to that at the time of the foundation of the Philippines. Of course, Singapose wnet on to better things and Phgils went backwards, thanks to the US navy and air force and banana republicanism.

The USA is a blight. In the Philippines, the USA slaughtered her leaders after 1898 and destroyed the place. Briinging Spain into it is a red herring. The USMC sang songs about how they deformed their victims. A $$holes like McASrthur's father was big into that.

The USA used a false flag in Cuba and turned it into a brothel, which is why Castro ended up taking over.

The USA destroyed Manila in World War Two when the Japanese navy defended it, General Yamashita's army having taken themselves off to Baguio to put up a stiffer resistance.

The USA is not and never has been a benevolent force. Its crimes in the Philippines are testimony to that. The Pinoysa should have left the Japanese a free run at it.

I am well aware of the history and the war of maps between Spain and Holland etc. I also knowo what hte USA has given the world and what it continues to give the world. Death and destruction and little more.


LMAO. Its a good thing you are not based in Singapore. You could be arrested, caned, fined and jailed for even suggesting something like this.

If you really want to know LKY's thoughts on the Philippines, please read "From Third World to First" authored by LKY.
Odd that someone with a moniker like "Pedro Morales" is so unaware of what was once known as Imperial Spain, an empire so oppressive that all of its colonies, except for the Philippines had liberated themselves from it in 1898. They had long been ousted from South America. When Cuba had enough, though their act of revolution started an odd of turn of events for Cuba, the US and the PI.

As for Singapore, it wasn't founded as a nation until after WW2, so I can't fathom how your comment is even relevant, and I'm incredulous that anyone would say that. But, thankfully Singapore became something much better.
I presume a product of the American educational system, yeah?

The Yanks weren't stealing people, and Intramuros is still around, so e.

Member #4698
07-24-18, 19:45
The USA is a blight. In the Philippines, the USA slaughtered her leaders after 1898 and destroyed the place. Briinging Spain into it is a red herring. The USMC sang songs about how they deformed their victims. A $$holes like McASrthur's father was big into that.

The USA used a false flag in Cuba and turned it into a brothel, which is why Castro ended up taking over.

The USA destroyed Manila in World War Two when the Japanese navy defended it, General Yamashita's army having taken themselves off to Baguio to put up a stiffer resistance.

The USA is not and never has been a benevolent force. Its crimes in the Philippines are testimony to that. The Pinoysa should have left the Japanese a free run at it.

I am well aware of the history and the war of maps between Spain and Holland etc. I also knowo what hte USA has given the world and what it continues to give the world. Death and destruction and little more.But how do you really feel about the USA? LOL.

Mr Enternational
07-24-18, 22:07
I also knowo what hte USA has given the world and what it continues to give the world. Death and destruction and little more.But that is in exchange for money for the corporations that elected the politicians. Nobody is just going around giving out death and destruction for free.

Golfinho
07-25-18, 00:15
at the time of the foundation of the Philippines. Of course, Singapose wnet on to better things and Phgils went backwards, thanks to the US navy and air force and banana republicanism.
The USA is a blight. In the Philippines, the USA slaughtered her leaders after 1898 and destroyed the place.What was the USA supposed to do: by 1890 they had finished off the Indians, closed that frontier; they'the gotten their former slaves back to being reenslaved. They had to find somewhere to express their national impulses, and then Spain came along. It was really the perfect opportunity to keep doing more of the same, with the added benefit that a good war could help 'bind the nation' allowing ex-Confederate states to participate.

GoodEnough
07-25-18, 01:07
I recommend that those interested in the involvement of the US in the Philippines read a book called "America's Boy," which, for its for 250 pages or so, presents a reasonably detailed history of the country from the time of the Spanish colonization through to the regime of GMA. Though the book focuses more on Marcos (America's boy) than on other post-independence national leaders, it does an excellent job providing an historical perspective that allowed Marcos to rise to and remain in power.

GE.

Dg8787
07-25-18, 02:30
But how do you really feel about the USA? LOL.Sounds to me like someone who's momma was a Subic bar girl impregnated by a departing GI Joe. America’s forgotten child left behind.

ForkTruck
07-25-18, 03:20
From a variety of dating sites I have refined my list of pinays to call when in country to about 25 in or very close to manila, makati, and Cebu. I have frankly been overwhelmed by responses of cute willing girls ages 19 to 38. I am north of 60 yo so all the more surprising to me accustomed to western women. At first, in my excited haste, I made some commitments to meet less than stellar candidates which I would now have promptly discarded. Now I have a rather impressive lineup to work through when I get there in two weeks. BTW, I'll be there for 3 weeks. Another shock to me are the number of lovely pinays on the north coast of Mindanao island who will jump in the sack at the drop of a hat. Most are asking for some understanding of single moms situation which I am guessing means 1200 php or so. Question I have is, is visiting Mindanao a viable option to attempt this time in country or ever for that matter. I am still reeling from the interest, its a heady feeling.

Simmer
07-25-18, 04:14
The interesting thing is that I have never been asked at customs / immigration for an onward ticket anywhere. Other than airline staff has anyone been asked by a government official?I was, just last week, but it's the only time ever (I've done a few trips via the Philippines on separate tickets instead of out and back on one ticket). First asked by the airline in the departing country. Of course, and given the reservation code he was happy. And then later by Philippines immigration whether I had an onward ticket. Replied yes, to the US next week, do you want to see it? She declined, stamped my passport, and off I went to baggage claim.

I had a connecting onward domestic flight which meant claiming my bag and then instead of exiting the baggage hall, was directed to put the bag *back on the carousel* with an extra tag, bright orange. Seems the handlers will eventually spot it and forward it on. But it doesn't seem to clear customs. Curious.

While it's on my mind, why does the Philippines have this rule that you cannot buy drinks *airside* and take them on the plane with you. For the US and Australia flights at least? You have to go through a 3rd security check where they relieve you of your liquids. PITA, especially when the airline only offers you an occasional drink unless you ask for more. In most airports the drinks in airside shops have already been inspected so they're "safe", as it were. Security requirement of the destination country?

Mr Enternational
07-25-18, 06:43
While it's on my mind, why does the Philippines have this rule that you cannot buy drinks *airside* and take them on the plane with you. For the US and Australia flights at least? You have to go through a 3rd security check where they relieve you of your liquids. PITA, especially when the airline only offers you an occasional drink unless you ask for more. In most airports the drinks in airside shops have already been inspected so they're "safe", as it were. Security requirement of the destination country?If you noticed, when you went through the second security (first is at the door coming into the building before you even check in) they didn't care about any of that shit. Didn't have to take shoes off or nothing. That is the PI security. Like you said, the third more strict one is for the destination country's requirement. Fucking sucks going back to the US, because I always get drinks from the airport club and end up getting them taken away. Going to Thailand there is no third security like that so I always load up so I won't have to buy stuff on Cebu Pacific.

WestCoast1
07-25-18, 07:06
They don't need to ask. The airline asks. If immigration happens to ask and you don't have one, then it is a big fine for the airline. I think they do have to type the reservation of your onward flight into the system before it will let them check you in.


The interesting thing is that I have never been asked at customs / immigration for an onward ticket anywhere. Other than airline staff has anyone been asked by a government official?Have been asked for onward ticket at the Phils inbound Immigration queue almost every single entrance into the country. A few years ago, the outbound carriers (Korean Air, China Air, Cathay Pac, etc) started asking for it at SFO / LAX at checkin. However on my most recent flight to Phils they did not ask, when in fact my outbound flight out of Phils was more than 30 days. However, once landed in Phils and at the Immigration booth, the officer asked. In the past I've gotten 59-day visas ahead of time in the US thru the Phils Embassy. Not this time. He asked: "How many days this time? I don't see visa in your passport". 40. "Just you extend. You go Intramuros office". Stamp. "Next!" And that was it.

Dg8787
07-25-18, 07:44
The reason for the 3rd security checkpoint is quite simple. Checkpoints #1 and #2 aren't quite adequate.

I personally are glad they have it. Wouldn't want to leave Manila without it.

I believe at some gates after the checkpoint #3 you can water up your container.

SaltyPete
07-25-18, 14:38
While it's on my mind, why does the Philippines have this rule that you cannot buy drinks *airside* and take them on the plane with you. For the US and Australia flights at least? You have to go through a 3rd security check where they relieve you of your liquids. PITA, especially when the airline only offers you an occasional drink unless you ask for more. In most airports the drinks in airside shops have already been inspected so they're "safe", as it were. Security requirement of the destination country?I'm not sure what drives this. They check for liquids in the gate area in Manila (to Japan), Bangkok (to US) and Hong Kong (to US), but not in Narita to US.

Firebird
07-25-18, 15:07
From a variety of dating sites I have refined my list of pinays to call when in country to about 25 in or very close to manila, makati, and Cebu. I have frankly been overwhelmed by responses of cute willing girls ages 19 to 38. I am north of 60 yo so all the more surprising to me accustomed to western women. At first, in my excited haste, I made some commitments to meet less than stellar candidates which I would now have promptly discarded. Now I have a rather impressive lineup to work through when I get there in two weeks. BTW, I'll be there for 3 weeks. Another shock to me are the number of lovely pinays on the north coast of Mindanao island who will jump in the sack at the drop of a hat. Most are asking for some understanding of single moms situation which I am guessing means 1200 php or so. Question I have is, is visiting Mindanao a viable option to attempt this time in country or ever for that matter. I am still reeling from the interest, its a heady feeling.ForkTruck, I have been frequenting Philippines now over 10 year. I too am way north of 60 - still trim and active. There are many, many beautiful girls there that are willing to spend ST and LT with you as long as you have some peso for them. And please don't be a cheap Charlie. When taking a taxi I normally give 3 x the meter fare which by western standard is very cheap. The girls do not look at your age. If you treat them nice you will get along.

Concerning going to Northern Mindanao. I have been traveling there periodically through the year for the past 3 years. Cagayan de Oro and Iligan city. I do have a driver I use that picks me up from the airport and my long time FG stays with me. During my last trip to Iligan City this past April, I was very surprised how many westerners with families I saw in Gaisano Mall and the newly opened Robinson Mall. The only time I staid away was during the horrible event that happened last year in Marawi. Now there is a lot of military everywhere and actually there still is a curfew.

Do not dare to go to the Southern portion of Mindanao in the areas of General Santos and Zambuanga. That is definitely a "no no".

In you fly into Laquindigan, little over 1 hour from Manila, and have someone waiting for you, it is quite safe IMHO.

I also stay quite often in Makati which I call my second "home".

So enjoy and be safe.

Soapy Smith
07-25-18, 17:39
I'm not sure what drives this. They check for liquids in the gate area in Manila (to Japan), Bangkok (to US) and Hong Kong (to US), but not in Narita to US.Mr. E and Dg explained this. The foreign airline and / or destination country does not trust the inspection standards at the two security checkpoints in NAIA. The first checkpoint at the outside door is a total joke.

I have never flown Bangkok to US but have flown Hong Kong to Taiwan and Hong Kong to US. I don't recall a gate security checkpoint. But then I'm old enough that my memory plays tricks on me sometimes.

Simmer
07-25-18, 18:13
If you noticed, when you went through the second security (first is at the door coming into the building before you even check in) they didn't care about any of that shit.Ah, so it wasn't a mistake that I inadvertently took half a bottle of water through that second checkpoint (500 ML bottle) and nobody batted an eyelid. At the 3rd checkpoint they had unopened bottles on the table and opened ones into recycle boxes. One would like to think they give the unopened ones to charity but then this is PI.

Hutsori
07-26-18, 07:59
jibber jabberHaving given up on arguing America robbed the Philippines blind, a point on which you offered nothing to support your assertion, you wisely abandoned it. And shifted the goalposts. I'm more than happy to contest on this new field of play too.

To understand the Philippines one needs to understand utang na loob, the debt of the soul. There exists the obligation to extend a favour or credit and there is a corresponding obligation for one to repay a debt; often because one doesn't have the means or influence to do so, it's repaid in loyalty and submissiveness. Internally the Philippines is a patron-client state. One acquires not only material wealth, one acquires the debt of obligation. Mabini's Constitution talks about this "natural law" of mutual dependence and exchange. One may see much to rejoice about it theoretically, but in practice in the Philippine context it was often abusive.

By the time the Americans arrived there already emerged an elite class of Filipinos who figured about ways to navigate the world between the Spanish colonial administration and the masses, and how to maximise benefits from the circulation of transactions for themselves. They called themselves the Ilustrados, "the enlightened ones", the self-described "oligarchy of intelligence" and "aristocracy of the intellect", and many came from well-to-do families and were educated in Spain and elsewhere in Europe. More on the Ilustrados below.

The Americans weren't of one mind re colonialism. For a variety a reasons, some in conflict, it was deeply unpopular amongst most. There were those who thought it was immoral. There were the racists who didn't want even more dark bodies making their way into the US. Others wanted to hand the Philippines back the Spanish. This was McKinley's initial position. There were those who supported it, again for differing reasons too. Some wanted to strengthen the Philippines so another European power wouldn't take it over, and others were genuine imperialists who saw the Philippines as a way to enhance national esteem or to protect and advance US interests in China, chiefly the Open Door Policy.

And we shouldn't ignore the third-party actors. In July 1898, German officials informed Ambassador White and Secretary of State Hay that Germany expected "a few coaling stations" and "a naval base" in the Philippines, as well as control of the Carolines and greater influence in Samoa. And don't forget American and German warships faced one another during the 1898 Spanish-American War. Germany's decision to send a fleet to Manila Bay resulted from the unsubstantiated report that the Filipinos requested the formation of an independent state under a German prince. We shouldn't ignore the Great Anglo-American Rapprochement of the 1890's, which established the idea that Britain and the United States had a special kind of relationship, and this threatened Germany ambitions. I think the British and the Dutch would have split the country to prevent the Germans from taking it and threatening their interests in SE Asia and the China trade. Having the Germans isolated in the Caroline Islands was one thing, having them berthing a fleet in Manila Bay was something altogether different and threatening. The British had long established good relations with the Sulu Sultanate, a relationship that would later sour relations between the Philippines and Malaysia over the status of Sabah, the once British North Borneo. I think it's likely Japan would have been brought in as the British were keen on nurturing ties. If we think internal divisions, diplomatic relations, and fake news today are a mess, and Trump is bombastic, they pale in contrast to the pre-WWI West and the antics of Kaiser Wilhelm.

In 1905 the first meeting between US legislators and the Ilustrados occurred. Vicente Ilustre of the influential Comite' de Intereses Filipino testified before the visitors, demanding more autonomy: "If the Philippine archipelago has a governable popular mass called upon to obey and a directing class charged with the duty of governing, it is in condition to govern itself. These factors. Are the only two by which to determine the political capacity of a country; an entity that knows how to govern, the directing class, and an entity that knows how to obey, the popular masses.".

Precisely because there was such a disparity between two classes, the Americans had been withholding immediate self government. They wanted to baby step it. Ilustre's comment was taken as evidence of a small group of the enlightened ones who viewed everyone else as peons to be ruled. Peonage, what we nowadays call debt slavery though today's is no match, made most turn-of-the-century Filipinos serfs. We still see the results of this today, though a middle class is finally emerging. The Americans' rationale for colonial rule was that if Philippine independence were to be granted, the islands would, in the words of Governor-General William Taft, "retrogress" into "tyranny". The "aristocratic" elites would take the reins of power and subject the "ignorant, credulous, and child-like" masses to their "despotic" designs. Does this worry not strike you as reasonable? This is the lived experience for millions of Filipinos presently. What do you think it was like 113 years ago?

Let's move back to 1899. Amongst the Ilustrados there were three main factions. There were the revolutionaries, such as Mabini and Aguinaldo; there were those who wanted statehood for the Philippines, such as Legarda and Pardo de Tavera; and there were those who took a wait-and-see approach. (This triad is very similar to colonial America during its Revolutionary War.) So, Aguinaldo promptly decided to lead an army and fight battles adhering to the tactical conventions of European powers. He was trounced. The Filipinos were better suited to insurgent tactics and this proved a more effective strategy. About 4,000 American and 20,000 Filipino soldiers died. Civilian casualties were much higher mostly due to the attendant woes of war such as disease, displacement, and malnourishment.

It may be controversial to acknowledge this, but the Americans fought an effective war for the hearts and minds. It was more than just guns that defeated the insurrectos. Though the concept of psy-ops likely hadn't been invented then, the Americans did three things well enough. For the most part prisoners of war were well treated - judged by the standards of the time, which is what they knew. The military wanted to use them to sway others to lay down their arms. Contrast this to the treatment by the Spanish military this aided the Filipinos adjusting their view of the new colonial power. Remember, Rizal had been executed in 1896. Secondly, the US put Filipinos at all levels of government. From provincial barangays to the Supreme Court, Filipinos occupied almost all the seats of power. In each town captured by the military, authorities laid down the foundations for tutelary rule by holding local elections. Lastly, the US propaganda was effective. Released prisoners did convert their comrades. To our jaded eyes these words may seem corny, but to many in 1899 the proclamation of the Philippine Commission was persuasive:



To the People of the Philippine Islands: The United States striving earnestly for the welfare and advancement of the inhabitants of the Philippine Islands . .. is ... solicitous to spread peace and happiness among the Philippine people; to guarantee them a rightful freedom; to protect them in their just privileges and immunities; to accustom them to free self government in an ever-increasing measure; and to encourage them in those democratic aspirations, sentiments, and ideals which are the promise and potency of a fruitful national development..

In its 1900 report to the president, the US Philippine Commission stated the proclamation was received by Filipinos with interest, attracting "large attention" throughout the Islands. Posters of the proclamation had been printed and hanged in public areas. In Manila, Filipinos "gathered about the posters in groups while one of their number would read and explain. " Copies of the proclamation "passed from hand to hand among the natives" and stretched out into the interior. In fact, many Filipino insurgents were compelled by it. Soon after it was issued, some Filipino insurgents associated with the Malolos revolutionary government temporarily dropped their arms to meet with American administrators. In the meetings, the Filipinos went over the proclamation "sentence by sentence" and asked the Americans "to explain what was meant by certain phrases. " The Americans in turn "fully explained" each one, and the insurgent emissaries returned to the interior bases to inform their comrades of what they had learnt.

Some may scoff, others may say the Philippine Commission over-egged the report, yet the insurgents were surrendering, signing pledges, and being released to speak to others. This included many revolutionary leaders. Was it entirely due to the proclamation? Unlikely. But the aggregate of military setbacks plus evidence the US was living up to its pledge to allow Filipinos to run their own affairs (mostly) is greater than its parts. And, what is also is very important, is that the relationship of dependence the Ilustrados had already established with those below them allowed them to keep their place and privileges. Remember those elections happening in the towns? Most often it was a provincial Ilustrado who won.

The US set out with the goal to tutor the Philippines on democracy, decent governance, and grant it independence. It certainly lived up to latter promise, doing so through a series of steps such as several gubernatorial elections, the establishment of the national legislature in 1907 (70% elected were Ilustrados who had been insurrectos), the 1916 Jones Act, and the establishment of the Philippine Commonwealth in 1935, so its departure wasn't a cut and run. It attempted to implement the first two goals by mentoring Ilustrados and educating the masses, but the cultural norm of utang na loob, which is much of the cause of the nation's corruption and ill-governance, proved resilient and resistant to change.

Tutelage rule established the institutions (legislative, judicial, educational, etc.) the Americans thought necessary for good governance, but it was American navet to think it could duplicate its own experience elsewhere. The US even attempted land reform by purchasing about 170,000 hectares (410,000 acres), 90% of the land owned by the Catholic Church's Spanish Monastic Orders, for a sum of $7,000,000. The Spanish friars were also required to leave. Resentment against the friars was so strong that Felipe Calderon, the grandson of a Franciscan friar, stated: "All the friars have to do is to go back to their parishes and sleep one night, and the chances are that they would never awaken. " Much of this hatred was due to land usurpation and polo y servicio, a system of forced annual labour imposed on each Filipino male aged 16 to 60 where they worked 40 days for the Crown and the friars. Those with money were able to evade this by paying a falla. The land was then to be resold to tenant farmers on an installment basis, but the Ilustrados proved adept at securing most for themselves. (Note: it should be understood the Philippines at the turn of the century was less densely populated than Indiana at the same time and much of the country's land that had been in the Crown's hand was undeveloped entirely. The friars had imposed a society where everyone was to live within earshot of church bells. It may astonish some to read, but a lot of the Philippines then was frontier country, and many took the opportunity to leave their barangays to settle these empty lands. But, if one was bound by debt, which many peons were, one's freedom to do so was constrained.).

The Filipinos adapted these institutions to suit their needs, for good or bad. The Ilustrados didn't even do this by stealth. The Americans recognised what was happening but short of rounding up the Ilustrados, executing them, and distributing their land to the masses, actions which were never in the cards, there was little the US could do. It took the West hundreds of years, a lot of spilt blood, and toppling both the aristocracy and the Church to create the imperfect democracies they have today. To think it would happen in the Philippines in a few decades was wildly over optimistic. Of course the fields of sociology, psychology, anthropology and other relevant ones, which may have aided the decisions made, were in their infancy in 1900, so to hold administrators to the standards of today is misguided.

"The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. " - L. P. Hartley.

I appreciate you have such passionate views. Have you considered directing some of this passion to reading books? It's not simply a dichotomy of them versus us, good versus bad, etc. To quote Crazy Ex-Girlfriend: "It's nuanced. " It's multidimensional with countless intersections of merging and diverging interests, goals, and plans, some viable and many others not.

GoodEnough
07-26-18, 09:19
Thank you for the excellent capsule history of the country, to which I would add only that during the period of US colonization, the United States also brought to the country the concept of public schools, many if not most of which were, I think, operated by the Thomisites, thus encouraging the spread of literacy that had been suppressed by the Spanish. The network of public schools established in the early 19th Century was (correctly) perceived as a source of expanding economic and social mobility for classes that had long been denied education which, under the Spanish, had been the exclusive purview of the church.

The concept of utang na loob, is complex, and it's a difficult one for a foreigner to fathom, yet it's the key to understanding the socio-political fabric of the Philippines. The "debt of the heart (or soul) exists at virtually every level of the social structure; from the family, outward to the tribe, the larger clan, the generations-old relationships between and among clans, and ever outward. And it never ends, though. I believe I see faint glimmers of its weakening in the larger cities and among the better educated middle class. At the village level though, it remains intact as it was 500 years ago. The web of obligations also doesn't die with individuals but spans the generations and has been instrumental in the perpetuation of a feudal-like structure that has allowed the Illustrados to retain and expand their power over the centuries.

As Huts said far more eloquently than I, the American involvement in the Philippines was much more highly nuanced than suggested by PM, and it was, without doubt far less oppressive than the Spanish occupation had been. It's true that the American Govrenment, on behalf of large agricultural producers in the US cut sweetheart deals for some of those companies, and it's also true that the US, in recognizing a centuries—old governing structure headed by the Illustrados, perpetuated that system which was, after all, a pragmatic approach to governing. Balanced against such exploitation however, is the introduction of public education, the rapid expansion of literacy, the establishment of some democratic rights, removing the opporessive yoke of the friars, and the gradual building up of democratic institutions.

It's interesting to speculate what might have happened had Teddy Roosevelt (a fervid expansionist) not suddenly acceded to the Presidency of the US, as McKinley was far less of an entuhusiastic supporter of expanding the American sphere of influence. McKinley's influence however did not die immediately after him, and international expansion was not enthusiastically endorsed by all of the American people, which might explain why America's "colonial adventurism" began and ended (for the most part) with the Philippines and yes I'm aware of the annexation of Hawaii, and the acquisition of Saipan, Guam, Puerto Rico and other territories.

GE.

PedroMorales
07-26-18, 09:24
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PedroMorales
07-26-18, 09:30
It's interesting to speculate what might have happened had Teddy Roosevelt (a fervid expansionist) not suddenly acceded to the Presidency of the US, as McKinley was far less of an entuhusiastic supporter of expanding the American sphere of influence. McKinley's influence however did not die immediately after him, and international expansion was not enthusiastically endorsed by all of the American people, which might explain why America's "colonial adventurism" began and ended (for the most part) with the Philippines and yes I'm aware of the annexation of Hawaii, and the acquisition of Saipan, Guam, Puerto Rico and other territories.

GE.To repeat: The USA is a reactionary, malign blight, as evidenced by the Philippines and everywhere else they brought their unwanted and uninvited presence.

Cons68
07-26-18, 10:10
You conveniently forget that all these inclusive examples you mention were essentially native-free. Maybe we should have eradicated the original population to build a better tomorrow.

How are the former british colonies in africa doing BTW? Are they shining examples of inclusiveness too?

Cheers.


"No doubt"? Seems like kind of a historical leap of faith about how things might have turned out 120 years later had the United States not taken the Philippines under the end of a gun barrel. As Hutsori points out, the devil is usually in the details.

Hutsori, your post is a rarity in the forum, where most people want to focus on the old "in-out, in-out. " Lots of background here on the Igorot, and I always appreciate learning this kind of stuff. Could you point me to sources where I could learn more about this history? PM if you prefer. While your report is accurate as to the limited goods valuable enough to ship from the Philippines to Spanish America, the Manila Galleons did transport goods from China through the Philippines to the Americas, including spices and porcelain.



A couple guys named Acemoglu and Robinson, in a book titled **Why Nations Fail**, reinforce what both E and G are suggesting here. They argue that colonizers took two distinctly different approaches to their colonies. Countries such as Britain and some other European colonizers undertook a sort of "inclusive" approach, creating institutions patterned after those in the mother country, with the idea that these colonies could eventually become self-governing. Other countries, notably Spain and Portugal, built institutions intended primarily to support "extraction," institutions that were generally guided by forceful and oppressive control. These guys contend that extractive institutions arose in part because the colonizers feared their captive colonials.

Examples such as the United States, Canada, and Australia speak to the effects of inclusive institutions. Other more recent nation-states could also be cited. Latin American countries and the Philippines provide evidence of the effects of extractive institutions. Hutsori may be correct that the Spanish intent for the Philippines was largely for logistical support rather than extracting resources, but their approach was clearly oppressive and forceful, with little intent to set up the Philippines with self-supporting institutions.

Soapy Smith
07-26-18, 17:40
You conveniently forget that all these inclusive examples you mention were essentially native-free. Maybe we should have eradicated the original population to build a better tomorrow.
How are the former british colonies in africa doing BTW? Are they shining examples of inclusiveness too? Good questions.

No natives in Australia, Canada and the US? Try telling that to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait people of Australia, the First Nation and Inuit of Canada, and the various Native American and Native Alaskan groups in the United States. Eradicate natives? Sadly, the US almost did. But check out the economic status of the 13 regional Native Corporations created under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act. These were inclusive institutions hammered out between native groups and state and federal government leaders. Some have generated great wealth for their regions; others faltered due to human mismanagement.

I did not do justice to Acemoglu and Robinson's argument. They clearly understand that inclusive institutions also depend on their reception by locals. Thus Botswana, a British colony, adopted inclusive institutions and has thrived economically by comparison to Zimbabwe and Sierra Leone, also British colonies, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, formerly a Belgian colony.

Their broader argument is that human-devised institutions--rather than culture, geography, guns, germs, or steel—determine a nation's success. (More or less) inclusive institutions in South Korea brought a very different result than the oppressive institutions in North Korea—over people with common cultural and linguistic background. Likewise, Nogales, Arizona versus Nogales, Sonora in Mexico. Same original language and culture, but divided by a fence, very different institutions, and very different outcomes. Germany anybody, East versus West under very different institutions prior to reunification—and 28 years later?

Soapy Smith
07-26-18, 19:48
Thanks Huts for the detailed account of the American incursion into the Philippines—and the Filipino cultural and class structures that influenced its reception. For me the contrast between Spanish extractive institutions and American attempts to include Filipinos in governmental institutions could not be more striking. From the beginning the Spanish saw a need to control Filipinos. They supported their own ruling institutions by extracting rents (I. E. , taxes) from the governed.

In a piece on "Historical Notes on Graft and Corruption" in the Philippines, Jose Endriga notes that in the Spanish system, "even well into the nineteenth century, there was no tradition of a salaried civil service and no recognized principle in the selection and promotion of officials. Offices were regarded as places of profit rather than posts of responsibilities. " Typically these positions were bought from higher office holders. These conditions encouraged both incompetence and greed. Office holders at the lowest, local level, used the authority attached to their positions to collect a portion of each citizen's harvest, fish catch, and so on. Even some Spanish at the time observed that these taxes were often levied on people living on the brink of starvation. Higher level officials supported themselves by extracting rents from their subordinate office holders. Endriga continues, "In a situation where officeholders received very little or no salary and were expected not only to augment but to raise their own compensation themselves, the distinction between fees and tips, and between perquisites and bribes was difficult to draw. ".

Not only did the 500 odd Thomasite volunteers, whom GE references, create schooling for the Filipino masses whom the Spanish had intentionally kept illiterate, other "missionaries" and American officials created health clinics and hospitals that ministered to the masses. Literacy rates and health outcomes improved dramatically. The Americans also built dams, irrigation systems, markets, mining and timber concessions, railways, roads, and ports. Americans were banned from acquiring large tracts of land. They created professional civil service systems populated largely by Filipinos and a taxation system designed to make government self-supporting. I think it's fair to say that the US invested in its colony, even if some of the missionary zeal was accompanied by ethnocentric ignorance.

None of this excuses the brutality and deaths of the Philippine-American war, but it seems to me that American acquisition of the Philippines must be balanced against the reality that, as Huts points out, various other countries had similar designs on the Philippines. Domestic American politics also played a role, as McKinley's assassination in 1901 gave way to the much more hawkish Vice President, Theodore Roosevelt.

Clearly there were chinks in the armor of the Philippine state, and some American intentions subsequently failed, although it is important to note that for about a decade following its 1946 independence, the Philippines was a shining light of prosperity for the rest of Asia, and Manila was known as the "Pearl of the Orient. " Filipinos today continue to ask themselves, "so what happened to us"? I think Filipinos generally and we in this forum have only partial and qualified answers for this question.

Simmer
07-26-18, 22:56
In a post on the Makati thread, Breadman said NYC has non-stop flights to Manila. http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1006-Makati&p=2201747&viewfull=1#post2201747. Transferring here as flight discussions didn't really belong there.

I do not believe this is the case. PR126/127 stop over in Vancouver it seems. The SF and LA flights are non-stop (about 13-14 hours). I thought there used to be a Vegas flight which also stopped over in Vancouver but maybe that no longer runs.

Having recently done 4 long haul PR flights, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. Good food, reasonable IFE, good seats in economy, reasonably on time.

SaltyPete
07-27-18, 14:36
In a post on the Makati thread, Breadman said NYC has non-stop flights to Manila. http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?1006-Makati&p=2201747&viewfull=1#post2201747. Transferring here as flight discussions didn't really belong there.

I do not believe this is the case. PR126/127 stop over in Vancouver it seems. The SF and LA flights are non-stop (about 13-14 hours). I thought there used to be a Vegas flight which also stopped over in Vancouver but maybe that no longer runs.

Having recently done 4 long haul PR flights, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. Good food, reasonable IFE, good seats in economy, reasonably on time.If I recall, the JFK-MNL service starts in December '18. Apparently serviced by a new A-350 (enough range to fly non-stop). It should be a comfortable flight, but I doubt it will be profitable. MNL has very low yields.

Mr Enternational
07-27-18, 17:14
If I recall, the JFK-MNL service starts in December '18. Apparently serviced by a new A-350 (enough range to fly non-stop). It should be a comfortable flight, but I doubt it will be profitable. MNL has very low yields.Who did that research? That thing is going to last about 5 minutes. All the Filipinos live in California and everyone on the flights are people that live in the US that are going back to visit family.

Ebauche
07-27-18, 18:19
Who did that research? That thing is going to last about 5 minutes. All the Filipinos live in California and everyone on the flights are people that live in the US that are going back to visit family.Some wet-behind-the-ears analyst likely thought there was adequate biz class demand related to Western executives traveling to their call centers and BPO accounting offices in Bonifacio Global City.

Breadman
07-27-18, 19:13
Who did that research? That thing is going to last about 5 minutes. All the Filipinos live in California and everyone on the flights are people that live in the US that are going back to visit family.From what I can gather the flights aren't every day. As to the number of passengers PAir seems to have been operating that New York flight for some time and has enough information on hand to make a sound judgement. Number of passengers getting on in stop over cities plus the airport fee's and extra gas vs the new plane and better performance.

Simmer
07-27-18, 20:40
If I recall, the JFK-MNL service starts in December '18. Apparently serviced by a new A-350 (enough range to fly non-stop). It should be a comfortable flight, but I doubt it will be profitable. MNL has very low yields.Ah right. Looks like the current service is JFK-YVR-MNL on a B773,4 x a week. Timetable shows a change on Oct 29th to 5 x a week with a shorter duration ( 4 hours less) which makes sense if it becomes non-stop then. The Oct 29th onwards 0145 departure from JFK is a bit meh but avoids a dark o'clock AM arrival into Manila.

Bushes
07-28-18, 05:05
Well, I think a fair number of Filipinos live outside CA. However, JFK? I have not flown out of or into that sxxx hole in a quarter century.


Ah right. Looks like the current service is JFK-YVR-MNL on a B773,4 x a week. Timetable shows a change on Oct 29th to 5 x a week with a shorter duration ( 4 hours less) which makes sense if it becomes non-stop then. The Oct 29th onwards 0145 departure from JFK is a bit meh but avoids a dark o'clock AM arrival into Manila.
Who did that research? That thing is going to last about 5 minutes. All the Filipinos live in California and everyone on the flights are people that live in the US that are going back to visit family.

Soapy Smith
07-28-18, 05:48
All the Filipinos live in California A 2012 census estimate shows approximately 235,000 Filipinos, Filipino-Americans, and biracial Filipino individuals living in the general area around New York City, southeastern Connecticut, and eastern New Jersey.

https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

Have you seen the scenes in the Bourne Legacy in the pretend pharmaceutical factory? Most of that was filmed in the off hours at the New York Times printing plant on Long Island. Must have been thousands of Filipino extras hired for those scenes. :)

Amore1973
07-28-18, 20:25
I'm in Manila on the captioned days. Happy to meet for a drink and shoot the breeze in anyone happens to be around.

Tx.

Red Kilt
07-29-18, 03:52
I'm in Manila on the captioned days. Happy to meet for a drink and shoot the breeze in anyone happens to be around.

I would be happy to try to meet you during your stay but as you are not a member I cannot contact you (nor can you contact me or any other member).

We cannot share contact details on the board.

Hutsori
07-31-18, 09:25
commentI have a few due outs owed to you.

There are so many sources. The reports of the Philippine Commission to the President and Congress are very good. You'll find them at U Penn, U Mich, HathiTrust; here are a few sample links.

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/serial?id=reportusphilip
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=miun.aex9637.0001.001;view=1up;seq=1
https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/003931771

Economic data such as post-Galleon trade exports and to where:
https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft4580066d&chunk.id=d0e1095&toc.id=&brand=ucpress . You'll learn a lot about the sugar industry. All the links therein are excellent to, such as the formation of the plantation society on Negros.

Friar lands:
https://archive.org/stream/jstor-1945652/1945652_djvu.txt

Prof Julian Go at Boston U's Sociology Dept is excellent source about the power of the Ilustrados. He wrote American Empire and the Politics of Meaning and has a few papers online. Olivia Habana is a good source about Benguet's gold mining. Jennifer Conroy Franco's Elections and Democratization in the Philippines. William H. Scott's The Discovery of the Igorots. Good websites such as https://philippinediaryproject.wordpress.com.

I tend to do a lot of online research of a particular topic, such as "baknang Igorot" , "polo y servicio", "reduccion", etc. There's so much online that you'll find plenty to read. And you stumble across other topics and interesting characters, such as Otto Scheerer.


In a piece on "Historical Notes on Graft and Corruption" in the Philippines, Jose Endriga notes that in the Spanish system, "even well into the nineteenth century, there was no tradition of a salaried civil service and no recognized principle in the selection and promotion of officials. Offices were regarded as places of profit rather than posts of responsibilities."The entire encomienda and repartimiento system and how it extracted labour, tax, and enforced obedience is astonishing. The thing is, there weren't all that many Spaniards here. Central Luzon was their power base, and the friars migrated out. But much of the Philippines was not under Spanish control. The Muslims of the south were conducting slaving raids through the 19th century.


Not only did the 500 odd Thomasite volunteersI mentioned these teachers in my earlier comment. There were two batches totaling about 1100 teachers plus the original group of soldiers who taught.


American officials created health clinics and hospitals that ministered to the masses. Literacy rates and health outcomes improved dramatically. The Americans also built dams, irrigation systems, markets, mining and timber concessions, railways, roads, and ports. Americans were banned from acquiring large tracts of land. They created professional civil service systems populated largely by Filipinos and a taxation system designed to make government self-supporting. I think it's fair to say that the US invested in its colony, even if some of the missionary zeal was accompanied by ethnocentric ignorance.All my reading confirms this. From the start Americans were not allowed to purchase agricultural land, though they were allowed to do mining and cut timber. Some Americans were able to get around the agricultural prohibition.


Clearly there were chinks in the armor of the Philippine state, and some American intentions subsequently failed,Yes, the Yanks set up the institutions but they undertook great effort to localise things. There's some humorous reports I read of the anti-abuse / corruption admin dealing with ilustrados filing complaints against lower members of society for disrespect such as failing to salute them. "Ah, this is not the point. " Many ilustrados held the idea it would be a new aristocracy. Where the Americans ruled exclusively it was specialised such as the Bureau of Non-Christian Tribes because it was thought the lowlander Christians would abuse the animist highlanders. Absent of a dramatic shock, such as the forced starvation perpetrated on the Ukrainian kulaks or the genocide of Cambodians by Pol Pot, culture evolves gradually. As I said before it took hundreds of years for the West, so to expect the Philippines to do so in less than two generations before the Americans handed over rule is unrealistic. That being said, it did happen quickly in Singapore under Lee and S. Korea (blasted into rubble by the Korean War) under Park, but both those leaders were uncommon men obsessively driven to national development. Park had no problem punishing industrialists who failed to meet his ambitious goals. When I lived in Kuwait I was friends with a Korean fella who lived there for decades and is in the construction business. "In the '70's the Koreans were the labourers and the Filipinos were the foremen. Today the Filipinos are still the foremen and Koreans own the construction companies winning the contracts."

Soapy Smith
07-31-18, 23:14
I have a few due outs owed to you.
(snip)
As I said before it took hundreds of years for the West, so to expect the Philippines to do so in less than two generations before the Americans handed over rule is unrealistic. That being said, it did happen quickly in Singapore under Lee and S. Korea (blasted into rubble by the Korean War) under Park, but both those leaders were uncommon men obsessively driven to national development. Park had no problem punishing industrialists who failed to meet his ambitious goals. When I lived in Kuwait I was friends with a Korean fella who lived there for decades and is in the construction business. "In the '70's the Koreans were the labourers and the Filipinos were the foremen. Today the Filipinos are still the foremen and Koreans own the construction companies winning the contracts."I suspect the forum participants who care about this "deep context" background can be counted on the fingers of one hand. I am perhaps one of the few who appreciate this type of contribution. Considering context in this way provides a much deeper understanding about Filipinos' interactions with us than do some of the ubiquitous claims about Filipina treachery and monger gullibility.

Important to note that Park Chung-hee, trained in Japanese military officer schools, directed South Korea's economy much more successfully than its democracy. His methods were distinctly authoritarian. He also made enemies, one of whom assassinated him. Real democracy didn't really take hold until nearly a decade after his death. But on most measures, South Korea now has a lot more to recommend it than does the Philippines.

There's an old international studies guy at the University of Washington named Joel Migdal who wrote a book in the late 1980's entitled **Strong Societies and Weak States: State-Society Relations and State Capabilities in the Third World* he observed that there are many developing countries in which the balance of power is retained by elements of the society rather than in the state. Many of his examples are from Southeast Asia. The Philippines appears to fit this "weak state" mold, in that power is often described as being held by an "anarchy" of elite land-holding families, so that the state represents a formalistic set of institutions that operate at the behest of these (60 or so) families. Even Marcos, whose family was not among the most prominent elites, recognized that he needed to gain support from a critical balance of these families. Some now argue that the influence of land-holding provincial families is partially giving way to prominent elite families who dominate the commercial sector, especially in Metro Manila.

It could be argued that South Korea occupies the "strong state" end of Migdal's continuum. Koreans' deference to authority can be traced back through a succession of dynasties that dominated the Korean peninsula from at least 108 BC until the early 20th Century. Each of these dynasties owed its stability to protection from the more powerful Chinese dynasties, which considered the Korean dynasties to be subordinate but loyal to them. In the Korean empires the emperor held supreme authority. This hierarchical authority persists as a strong cultural element to the present day. Koreans have a saying that translates to "king, father, teacher," implying not only a deference to seniority and authority, but especially to the king, one's father, and one's guiding teacher. It makes sense, given the historical significance of the emperor's authority, that power In Korea is centered in the state rather than in external societal interests. Civil society organizing is not a prominent feature of Korean society, although Seoul's current Mayor, Park Wonsoon, is attempting to infuse community organizing within the cities' districts.

I have not read this anywhere, but perhaps a strong state configuration (example Korea) is more conducive to economic and social "progress" than is a weak state within a strong society (example Philippines). I don't know enough about Singapore's history to comment on where it fits in this model.

Jboon
08-01-18, 01:59
Anywhere to get a fire and ice blowjob in the Philippines? Massage or sauna girls? With hot tea and cool gel?

Wicked Roger
08-01-18, 03:04
Anywhere to get a fire and ice blowjob in the Philippines? Massage or sauna girls? With hot tea and cool gel?PM me for specifics please and you can PM me your contacts in Thailand as you asked the same there as can't put details and contacts on the open forum. But you know this as Eramus noted this back in 2015 to you on a similar question.

Wicked Roger
08-01-18, 22:22
Trying to join. Fucking American politics and bullshit. I assume that's why it's not letting me sign up.Various ways to join and subscribe check the relevant link as you don't need to sue credit cards etc. Or someone else can do for you? Plenty ways it can be done but see the link and page on how.

Jboon
08-02-18, 18:10
Well damn, I don't like the cash option. Takes freaking weeks to do? I read through the links and did not see another option. Someone else want to buy for me? That would be awesome; I will PayPal to get it done. Not supposed to put an email here, so hope I don't get my account canceled. But damn, I am trying to pay for my membership. [Email address deleted by Admin] Thanks.


Various ways to join and subscribe check the relevant link as you don't need to sue credit cards etc. Or someone else can do for you? Plenty ways it can be done but see the link and page on how.EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited to remove email addresses in the text. Please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. Thanks!

Amore1973
08-05-18, 14:47
Have got membership and PM now.

ForkTruck
08-05-18, 20:44
I have gotten several requests from pinays for chocolates when they visit me. WTF. What are they looking for, a handful of hershey kisses or something else? Help me because if I have to get something only available in the states I have to act quickly.

AggieDad1
08-06-18, 00:58
I have gotten several requests from pinays for chocolates when they visit me. WTF. What are they looking for, a handful of hershey kisses or something else? Help me because if I have to get something only available in the states I have to act quickly.I have found that Almond M&M's are rare outside the USA. Never took them to the Phillipines, but I know the Chinese girls love them and they travel well.

Good luck.

Wicked Roger
08-06-18, 01:34
I have gotten several requests from pinays for chocolates when they visit me. WTF. What are they looking for, a handful of hershey kisses or something else? Help me because if I have to get something only available in the states I have to act quickly.All (most) love chocolate as it an be expensive there to buy and is seen as a treat. They will like take photos and Facebook it also to 'boast' to friends.

But please take real chocolate namely Belgian, Swiss or Cadburys not the poor excuse that is Hersheys LOL. Shows class when you give them those type of brands. And yes I have tried Hersheys and no I don't consider it chocolate LOL.

But take some lots (and cheap perfume) as the little things always help break the ice.

Goferring
08-06-18, 02:39
I have gotten several requests from pinays for chocolates when they visit me. WTF. What are they looking for, a handful of hershey kisses or something else? Help me because if I have to get something only available in the states I have to act quickly.Some would argue that gifts are never required but what ever makes you feel good. .

The fresh girls will be looking for a small sign that you were thinking of them while back home and love only them. Yes a bag of chocolates from home works.

The hardened girls will be asking for a new iPhone which is totally unrequired.

Keep the candy for the newbies and cold cash for the old pros. It's what they both want. No need to sweet talk a sure thing. . . Remember Julia Roberts explaining to Richard Gere that he was paying for a sure thing in Pretty Woman 😁. ?

Datiao
08-06-18, 03:49
Hi does anyone knows where I can buy a spy watch camera in Manila or Angeles? I was assaulted one night while in the street and I had no evidence if were to make a police report. Thanks.

EihTooms
08-06-18, 04:10
I have gotten several requests from pinays for chocolates when they visit me. WTF. What are they looking for, a handful of hershey kisses or something else? Help me because if I have to get something only available in the states I have to act quickly.Bring chocolate from regional or exclusively USA candy shops. See's Candy comes to mind. Not sure, but I don't think there is a See's Candy shop anywhere in Asia. In fact, after living in Thailand for several years, a box of See's Candy chocolates sounds pretty damn good to me right now, too! Those chocolate butterscotch squares are fantastic.

Mr Enternational
08-06-18, 05:01
I have gotten several requests from pinays for chocolates when they visit me. WTF. What are they looking for, a handful of hershey kisses or something else? Help me because if I have to get something only available in the states I have to act quickly.Just tell them no. Especially if it is a chick that you have to give money to. Why do you have to give them money and buy them shit? Makes no sense to me.

I don't know where you are going, but the Belgian guy in Angeles sells some damn good chocolate for cheap. If you insist on getting chocolate from the USA just get that assorted bag of small Hershey's at the grocery store and divide it up into ziploc bags for how many ever chicks you are giving it to. No idea why they act like there is no chocolate in the grocery store over there. My girlfriend in Colombia does the same thing.

Mr Hawaii
08-06-18, 06:10
I have gotten several requests from pinays for chocolates when they visit me. WTF. What are they looking for, a handful of hershey kisses or something else? Help me because if I have to get something only available in the states I have to act quickly.

Been going to the Philippines for 20 years, and for 20 years they always tell me the same thing, "The chocolate from America tastes different". So I always take a few small boxes of Hawaiian Sun chocolates and they love it. They even love Hershey's. Don't try and understand the "why". Spend a few dollars. Party on.

Chocha Monger
08-06-18, 07:55
Just tell them no. Especially if it is a chick that you have to give money to. Why do you have to give them money and buy them shit? Makes no sense to me.

I don't know where you are going, but the Belgian guy in Angeles sells some damn good chocolate for cheap. If you insist on getting chocolate from the USA just get that assorted bag of small Hershey's at the grocery store and divide it up into ziploc bags for how many ever chicks you are giving it to. No idea why they act like there is no chocolate in the grocery store over there. My girlfriend in Colombia does the same thing.I agree, Mr. E. There is no need to waste increasingly valuable luggage space on chocolates that are available at NAIA duty-free shops, and all supermarkets and pharmacies in the Philippines. The girls just want to brag to their friends that the "poriner" went through the trouble of toting chocolates all the way from abroad for them. I have given them chocolate from the Philippines and they cannot tell the difference between a Cadbury's chocolate from abroad and one manufactured locally. The same goes for Snickers minis and Hershey kisses.

Before, I fell for the requests from girlfriends. Then I realized that half of the time, they were feeding me the chocolate because they did not want to eat it alone and get fat. It is bad enough that finding a good gym to workout in most areas is a challenge, the last thing I need is a girl shoving chocolates into my mouth in bed between copulatory bouts. I finally just said no to bringing chocolates. When I do give chocolates, I buy them locally and no one ever refuses them. As you said, girls that require cash compensation for their company should not be asking for imported chocolates. They can purchase that with their earnings or let their trike driver boyfriends get it for them. LOL! Most of the time, the Pinoy boyfriends are the ones making the girls pester mongers to bring that junk anyway.

I had one girlfriend's brother ask me to bring him the latest iPhone and he would pay me for it. Yeah, sure! He was going to pay me the 50 K pesos or so that it would cost to buy one that was unlocked without a contract. LOL! I just laughed at the idea. I have even been asked to bring back auto parts and appliances from abroad. It is best to just say, no! Before the airlines started charging extortionate baggage fees, Filipinos and Central Americans used show up at check-in with freight that looked like it belonged on a cargo jet. Guys who indulge their requests to import goods will eventually need a fork truck to load their suitcases into the cargo bay. LOL!

NamasteParis
08-06-18, 10:44
Just tell them no. Especially if it is a chick that you have to give money to. Why do you have to give them money and buy them shit? Makes no sense to me.Makes no sense to you because you are a man. In this world, women love chocolate, whatever the colour, nationality, or age. It must be in their ADN since the big bang.

I guess there must be a special "chocolate" nerve in their brain connected straight to the G point.

Same as for guys: we have a special neuron that turns beer into fart.

Mr Enternational
08-06-18, 12:55
Been going to the Philippines for 20 years, and for 20 years they always tell me the same thing, "The chocolate from America tastes different".That is due to all the artificial shit in it.

PBtoCobra
08-06-18, 14:44
Makes no sense to you because you are a man. In this world, women love chocolate, whatever the colour, nationality, or age. It must be in their ADN since the big bang.

I guess there must be a special "chocolate" nerve in their brain connected straight to the G point.

Same as for guys: we have a special neuron that turns beer into fart.Chocolate is relatively cheap in Europe and the US. And the girls ask, because the money that have needs to go on essentials for living not Chocolate. I recently went to Davao and my GF asked for some Cadbury's and I took lots, what she actually wanted was the smaller bars, not the bigger ones. She wanted to share them with the family. For me, the larger bars are easier to pack and not expensive.

For such a desired, and cheap product, why not make them happy by giving the gift of chocolate. It really does make them happy.

Blanquiceleste
08-06-18, 14:46
Hi does anyone knows where I can buy a spy watch camera in Manila or Angeles? I was assaulted one night while in the street and I had no evidence if were to make a police report. Thanks.What's the point? If you get assaulted again while you are wearing that watch, do you think the assaulters will leave that watch on you? LOL.

Me thinks you have plans of secretly recording some show inside a bar. Tsk tsk.

WestCoast1
08-06-18, 15:37
Been going to the Philippines for 20 years, and for 20 years they always tell me the same thing, "The chocolate from America tastes different". So I always take a few small boxes of Hawaiian Sun chocolates and they love it. They even love Hershey's. Don't try and understand the "why". Spend a few dollars. Party on.Chocolate. One girl (no longer need to ask what pasalubong to bring, 6 years now the same thing) asks for "Ket cat bor if you can, my son love American chocolate". I used to toss one or two into the backpack for her, and she loved taking it to her son. Then one day in an SM grocery store in Phils, there the little KitKat bars were. Now I just pick them up in Phils (saving airline fuel, thank God). It gets the same smile and nawty ferver from her. A dollar's worth of wafer and chocolate: Who would have thunk it would make some brown honey dig her heels into my ass-end like a horse jockey? Party on Ket-cat-bor.

Datiao
08-06-18, 18:17
What's the point? If you get assaulted again while you are wearing that watch, do you think the assaulters will leave that watch on you? LOL.

Me thinks you have plans of secretly recording some show inside a bar. Tsk tsk.Have you been in a situation when you need to proof to validate your claims? Recording the incident is the best evidence. Filipinos are cowards, they won't confront you face to face but good at doing things behind your back without you knowing like in a crowd.

Whats so exciting at the bar that you may want to record?

Bushes
08-06-18, 19:04
Depends on your bag allowance. I usually fill one suitcase with the assorted from the big box stores. The Holloween bags. I stick with the simple chocolate ones and not the mixes that I myself do not like. If you are meeting some city girls, there are the nice Belgium chocolate gift boxes. For on site consumption, I get the plastic containers and bags of Barkthins.


I have gotten several requests from pinays for chocolates when they visit me. WTF. What are they looking for, a handful of hershey kisses or something else? Help me because if I have to get something only available in the states I have to act quickly.

Simmer
08-06-18, 21:38
Anybody had an ATM refuse to dispense cash but your bank claims it did? I feel I'm in a no-win situation sadly.

So I needed cash in a small city in the Visayas. Each of three ATMs attached to banks said words along the lines of "cannot withdraw from this machine" - not terribly unusual for PI ATMS, though less common these days. The fourth stated "you have exceeded your daily limit". Sure enough, go online to my bank and one of the earlier 3 machines had told my bank it dispensed cash. I was with somebody at the time and he noticed no cash either, nor did I hear any of the clicking you normally hear as it counts the notes before dispensing them.

I raised a dispute with the bank. Wells Fargo. But the lady didn't give good vibes about the success of appealing. My word against a foreign ATM.

Kabul Guy
08-06-18, 22:48
Been going to the Philippines for 20 years, and for 20 years they always tell me the same thing, "The chocolate from America tastes different". ......It's a local cultural thing. Anything from afar is better than anything local. Foreign stuff costs more so should naturally be better, right?

They love long noses.

They love blue eyes.

They love white skin.

They love blond or fair hair.

They love foreign chocolate. A hint get the Hersey in brown wrapper, that is what the GI's were issued in the post war times and they associate it with American affluence and see it as a sign of wealth. (or so I have been told.).

Also women everywhere love it when you bring them anything from afar, it is not the value o the gift but the proof that you were thinking of them when you were away from them that matters.

GreenBud
08-06-18, 22:50
Anybody had an ATM refuse to dispense cash but your bank claims it did? I feel I'm in a no-win situation sadly.

So I needed cash in a small city in the Visayas. Each of three ATMs attached to banks said words along the lines of "cannot withdraw from this machine" - not terribly unusual for PI ATMS, though less common these days. The fourth stated "you have exceeded your daily limit". Sure enough, go online to my bank and one of the earlier 3 machines had told my bank it dispensed cash. I was with somebody at the time and he noticed no cash either, nor did I hear any of the clicking you normally hear as it counts the notes before dispensing them.Yes, that has happened to me several times over the past 30 years. But I always got a refund. Twice in Costa Rica, once in Colombia, and a few times in the Philippines.

What happened to me is that the ATM gets the acceptance from your bank to dispense the cash. Then it has an internal error in which it cannot dispense the cash. Citibank ATM in Philippine gave me the refund immediately after the error. The Banco Colombia ATM gave me a refund one day afterwards. The Philippine bank ATMs did nothing until I notified my bank.


I raised a dispute with the bank. Wells Fargo. But the lady didn't give good vibes about the success of appealing. My word against a foreign ATM.My Service Rep (from Schwab) assured me that the Visa/debit payment system has checks and balances to insure system integrity. I always got a refund. It's logical. No smart large company is going to trust corruptible third world people with their money. You have pictures, and internal money counts (that can't be hacked), etc.

Most of my problems were investigated and closed in my favor. But I had one incident with PS Bank ATM on Fields Road in which the PS Bank did not reply to my bank's request for an investigation. Then my Schwab bank notified me that they would refund my money since their time requirement for investigation expired. I wouldn't trust third world Philippines. But the Visa debit payment system (not from the Philippines) is trustworthy.

Mr Enternational
08-06-18, 23:54
Have you been in a situation when you need to proof to validate your claims? Recording the incident is the best evidence.Sure that holds true in a first world country, but for a foreinger in a 3rd world country that means squat. My buddy in Thailand got into an accident. Luckily he had his trusty dash cam running and was able to show the cops that the other guy was at fault. The cops didn't care about that shit. He wasted his damn money on that cam!

I was in a car accident in Nicaragua when me and my girlfriend were going to a lake. My girl stopped to turn left and an [CodeWord902] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord902), unlicensed driver with her father in the car hit us square in the ass. Open and shut case right? WRONG! Because the girl's father paid off the judge first, so my girlfriend was responsible for fixing her own car. She got mad and broke up with me. She thought that I should have been the one to pay for it, because if I wouldn't have been visiting her, then she wouldn't have been going to the lake so the accident would not have happened.

Blanquiceleste
08-07-18, 00:51
Have you been in a situation when you need to proof to validate your claims? Recording the incident is the best evidence. Filipinos are cowards, they won't confront you face to face but good at doing things behind your back without you knowing like in a crowd.

Whats so exciting at the bar that you may want to record?Sigh. It would have been easier to simply run a Google search as always. Note to self. You can't wake up a man who is pretending to sleep.

https://www.ebay.com/bhp/spy-watch

Simmer
08-07-18, 01:01
Yes, that has happened to me several times over the past 30 years. But I always got a refund. Twice in Costa Rica, once in Colombia, and a few times in the Philippines.

What happened to me is that the ATM gets the acceptance from your bank to dispense the cash. Then it has an internal error in which it cannot dispense the cash. Citibank ATM in Philippine gave me the refund immediately after the error. The Banco Colombia ATM gave me a refund one day afterwards. The Philippine bank ATMs did nothing until I notified my bank.

My Service Rep (from Schwab) assured me that the Visa/debit payment system has checks and balances to insure system integrity. I always got a refund. It's logical. No smart large company is going to trust corruptible third world people with their money. You have pictures, and internal money counts (that can't be hacked), etc.

Most of my problems were investigated and closed in my favor. But I had one incident with PS Bank ATM on Fields Road in which the PS Bank did not reply to my bank's request for an investigation. Then my Schwab bank notified me that they would refund my money since their time requirement for investigation expired. I wouldn't trust third world Philippines. But the Visa debit payment system (not from the Philippines) is trustworthy.Thanks, GreenBud. I hope that the records do show a failure to give cash. I was only reminded to ask about this as I got a notification from the bank that I'd been temporarily credited (10 days). I believe they have another 20 days to conclude the matter one way or another.

Soapy Smith
08-07-18, 01:19
"Ket cat bor if you can, my son love American chocolate". I want to commend your remarkably accurate recreation of pidgin Taglish. You've always done this well in field reports, especially considering that many of your interactions are in areas where Bisaya is spoken rather than Tagalog. Seems like there are two steps to it. First, you have to recall (or perhaps you record) the words and word order from the native; second, you have to work through the English word construction to capture a reasonably proximal phonetic spelling of the original. Joking aside, your inserted pidgin adds authenticity to the forum. I appreciate it.

NamasteParis
08-07-18, 10:34
Chocolate. "Ket cat bor if you can, my son love American chocolate" Party on Ket-cat-bor.Hahaha Ket Cat Bor: that's a good one! LMAO! Especially when you know that KIT KAT is from Nestle, Switzerland.

NewImage
08-07-18, 12:53
Always looking for the combo of good swimming beach and nightlife.

Ok Phuket I have been to. Sabang Phil have been to. Look like unfort Sihanoukville is getting wrecked by Chinese development. Still viable or many reports say forget! Ko Samui & Boracay know of. Pattaya. But wouldn't swim there. Any swim able places close to Patts?

Know of the Nang, Nha Trang, Vung Tau in Viet but mongering in Viet is such a hassle. Didn't like Bali, well it was Kuta / Seminyak really.

So anyone got any new / recently developed places where combo of beach and girls can be found in SEA?

Anywhere in Thai / Phil / Indon to fit the bill. Prefer enough WG to give me choice. Yeah I know I want it all!

Where is your go to beach & bunny location?

Appreciate.

NI.

Mr Enternational
08-07-18, 14:57
Pattaya. But wouldn't swim there. Any swim able places close to Patts?
Simple. Just take the boat to Koh Larn (Coral Island) from Pattaya (Bali Hai Pier, end of Walking Street). 45 minutes. 30 baht.


Where is your go to beach & bunny location?Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Sosua, Dominican Republic. Cartagena, Colombia.

WestCoast1
08-07-18, 16:01
I want to commend your remarkably accurate recreation of pidgin Taglish. Thanks. Have just taken clues as to where the words are placed in a sentence, and which syllable is accented. And she really did spell it ket cat bor several times. Pinoy spell words how they sound. Is that called phonetic? Example: Trabajo (spanish for 'work') becomes Trabaho. A girl once contacted me in FB saying that her mom was in the hospital and the doctor said that mom needed a 'city scan'. Do you mean a CT scan?

Example of language: Always put the word 'only' at the end of a sentence. Listen to the girl at JolliBee: "Will you like large drink sir? Its 79 pesos ONLY". You might think that she would say: "Its only 79 pesos sir", or "Its only 6 pesos more sir". But no.

And 'would' becomes 'will': "Will you like to go to the store with me?"

Datiao
08-07-18, 20:36
Sigh. It would have been easier to simply run a Google search as always. Note to self. You can't wake up a man who is pretending to sleep.

https://www.ebay.com/bhp/spy-watchSo ebay free shipping from US but I need to pay shipping costs to return if defective.

I would rather pay more to buy at physical shops in manila, test it on site and use immediately to avoid the delivery time and defective possibilities.
And i m just a tourist a week in manila

Cons68
08-07-18, 20:48
She got mad and broke up with me. She thought that I should have been the one to pay for it, because if I wouldn't have been visiting her, then she wouldn't have been going to the lake so the accident would not have happened.Sure you can not fight that logic, can you?

X Man
08-08-18, 00:20
The Filipino communication technique that always amuses me is the way they point with their mouths / lips. If there isn't a word for such a thing, there should be. How about Labium Guidance?


Thanks. Have just taken clues as to where the words are placed in a sentence, and which syllable is accented. And she really did spell it ket cat bor several times. Pinoy spell words how they sound. Is that called phonetic? Example: Trabajo (spanish for 'work') becomes Trabaho. A girl once contacted me in FB saying that her mom was in the hospital and the doctor said that mom needed a 'city scan'. Do you mean a CT scan?

Example of language: Always put the word 'only' at the end of a sentence. Listen to the girl at JolliBee: "Will you like large drink sir? Its 79 pesos ONLY". You might think that she would say: "Its only 79 pesos sir", or "Its only 6 pesos more sir". But no.

And 'would' becomes 'will': "Will you like to go to the store with me?"

Soapy Smith
08-08-18, 04:58
Thanks. Have just taken clues as to where the words are placed in a sentence, and which syllable is accented. And she really did spell it ket cat bor several times.
(snip)
Listen to the girl at JolliBee: "Will you like large drink sir? Its 79 pesos ONLY". I have assumed that word order for less well-educated Pinoys / Pinays simply follows the word order construction for their own language. My own Filipino is too limited to be sure, but I assume "only," as an adverb, is placed at the end of the sentence because many Filipino sentences place the adverb at the end. For example, a Taglish expression I hear is "wait lang," told to an impatient child. It translates literally as "wait just," in reverse order of how we say it in English ("just wait"). I assume that any of us who developed a Filipino lexicon of a few hundred words would find ourselves attempting to convey ideas by assembling words in the sentence structures typical in our own languages.

A more typical JolliBee conversation for me is my asking for something on the posted menu, then hearing "not abailabul, sir."

I notice a more refined Taglish among better-educated Filipinos, who simply intermingle Tagalog and English in the same sentence, and usually in approximately correct word order. I've asked why they do it and been told that some expressions can be delivered in fewer words in one language rather than the other, and some ideas can really only be expressed in one language or the other. My hunch is that these sentences are not necessarily deliberately parsed, but sort of flow out intuitively. Only people who are truly fluent can do this; it implies the ability to think in both languages without having to consciously translate.

The expressions you often offer are probably closer to pidgin than Taglish, since they're trying to give you all English.


The Filipino communication technique that always amuses me is the way they point with their mouths / lips. First time I observed this was from a young Filipina behind the counter of a little Korean restaurant on the UP campus. I had been in country less than two weeks, and, since I'd just entered the restaurant, I thought she was blowing me a kiss. There were several other folks around, and, because I was a little embarrassed, I just stepped up to the counter, placed my order with her, and said nothing. I described the situation later to a Filipino friend, who then mimicked the lip-pointing gesture, laughed at my interpretation, and explained it was just a common way that Filipinos point at things.

Simmer
08-08-18, 17:17
I notice a more refined Taglish among better-educated Filipinos, who simply intermingle Tagalog and English in the same sentence, and usually in approximately correct word order. I've asked why they do it and been told that some expressions can be delivered in fewer words in one language rather than the other, and some ideas can really only be expressed in one language or the other. My hunch is that these sentences are not necessarily deliberately parsed, but sort of flow out intuitively. Only people who are truly fluent can do this; it implies the ability to think in both languages without having to consciously translate.Wifey speaks English, Tagalog, Visayan (aka Cebuano and others), and Ilonggo / Hiligaynon and interchangeably switches between at least English and one of the Filipino languages in one sentence. For me trying to learn it's a nightmare. Tagalog is a little easier as often the stress is on the second syllable, whereas with Cebuano it's all over the place. First, last, penultimate. Then there are words that mean very different things in Tagalog and Cebuano. My driver is "malibog" means my driver is confused in Cebuano, while meaning my driver is a pervert in Tagalog. Ilonggo is usually obvious when spoken as it's quite harsh on the ears. Sounds like people are having an argument when they're actually just shooting the breeze.

I've also learned that Cebuano simply doesn't have English or even Tagalog equivalents for some phrases. There just isn't an obvious translation. I don't have any examples of that right now. It's not even formalised how you write some words so you can see more than one spelling for a word and neither is particularly wrong.

All that said, the languages ought to be easier to learn than, for example, English with its myriad idiosyncrasies and "it's always X, unless it's Y" kind of rules.

NewImage
08-08-18, 22:42
Simple. Just take the boat to Koh Larn (Coral Island) from Pattaya (Bali Hai Pier, end of Walking Street). 45 minutes. 30 baht.
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Sosua, Dominican Republic. Cartagena, Colombia.What about the other way stay in Koh Larn. Boat to Patts? Late night boat??Much to do / play with in KL. Have been to Patts so know what's on offer there.

Your indulgence Mr. E if you would please.

Mr Enternational
08-09-18, 00:27
What about the other way stay in Koh Larn. Boat to Patts? Late night boat??Much to do / play with in KL. Have been to Patts so know what's on offer there.

Your indulgence Mr. E if you would please.Only go during the day and take a chick with you. Three beaches there. Samae Beach is the best one. Last boat back is at 6 pm. If you miss that you will be stuck on a boring island with Chinese tourists all night. It is just an island off Pattaya. You can see it from Pattaya's beach.

Soapy Smith
08-09-18, 01:45
Wifey speaks English, Tagalog, Visayan (aka Cebuano and others), and Ilonggo / Hiligaynon and interchangeably switches between at least English and one of the Filipino languages in one sentence. For me trying to learn it's a nightmare. Tagalog is a little easier as often the stress is on the second syllable,

All that said, the languages ought to be easier to learn than, for example, English with its myriad idiosyncrasies and "it's always X, unless it's Y" kind of rules.Great entertainment, right? A year ago my squeeze traveled with me to Digos City in Davao del Sur. She speaks Bisaya (her pronunciation) from living her first 13 years in Southern Leyte, then a year or so in Cebu. Since then she's been in Metro Manila. She would get talking with our hosts, a couple from Digos, and they moved back and forth among several languages. The English was obvious, but much of the other did not sound like Tagalog. When I asked they told me, "oh yeah, we're talking in English, and sometimes Bisaya, and sometimes Tagalog. It's no problem for us. ".

I was told that the stress in Tagalog is most commonly on the next to last syllable.

My daughter, who once taught ESL, tells me that there are at least 49 known rules in English about the use of the definite ('the") and indefinite ("a, an") articles, or none at all. I have observed that many foreigners struggle with article use, but most of us natives could not begin to explain the 49 rules.

Wicked Roger
08-09-18, 10:10
My daughter, who once taught ESL, tells me that there are at least 49 known rules in English about the use of the definite ('the") and indefinite ("a, an") articles, or none at all. I have observed that many foreigners struggle with article use, but most of us natives could not begin to explain the 49 rules.Yes Soapy and if we ever get the 'chance' to learn our own language we will suffer badly LOL / We know what is right or wrong mostly but never ask us to explain it LOL. Asians can explain it well (I find South Koreans very good) but can't articulate or write well. We are opposite.

While off the beaten track there is also a rule for adjectives which I can't explain well but I know of and it works but then we are native speakers so we don't care LOL.

WestCoast1
08-09-18, 11:39
So two of my regulars have been driving me nuts. They have always done this thing somewhat, but now its at a new level. In txt they are repeating everything I say when they ask me a question. Example:

Girl: Where you now Westy / Me: Condo. / Girl: You are condo Westy?

Yes, I think I said condo. And:

Girl: Did you take your breakfast / Me: Yes / Girl: You had your breakfast Westy / Me: Yes again / Girl: Whats your breakfast this day / Me: Cereal and toast / Girl: You have cereal toast Westy / Me: Yes that's what I said / Girl: What your plan today / Me: Might see a movie / Girl: You will see movie / Me: Yes.

These are 6+ year girls on different islands who don't know each other. They have become techno-parrots. Before, I was OK to the constant questions, but my short reply was good enough. No longer good enough, I must answer each question 2 x.

Red Kilt
08-09-18, 12:07
So two of my regulars have been driving me nuts. They have always done this thing somewhat, but now its at a new level. In txt they are repeating everything I say when they ask me a question. For someone who visits the Philippines 2 or 3 times each year, you sure post a lot of negative things about pinays and their idiosyncrasies Westy.

I think if ever you lived here you would go crazy unless you focused more on the positives (outside of using them for sex, of course).

I rarely hang out with expats any more because it usually becomes a litany of what's wrong with the country rather than a discussion of why the expats have lived here for more than 20 years. Something must be attractive for them to live through all this craziness.

Having just returned from a short 9-day visit to Australia (my country of origin), I must say I was glad to be back in Manila, notwithstanding the airport clusterfuck and the 2-hour trip to my condo.

Goferring
08-09-18, 12:36
I rarely hang out with expats any more because it usually becomes a litany of what's wrong with the country rather than a discussion of why the expats have lived here for more than 20 years.Not directed at you or Westie, but it's pretty common for frequent visitors or residents to start to believe their own hype and what they are told every day after a while. If "Sir John" is more handsome and intelligent than everyone else then Philipinos and the Philippines deserve only his contempt.


Something must be attractive for them to live through all this craziness.Wanting to stay and having to stay are two different things. I know many expats who stay decades in Asia because they enjoy it. However, I also know many that stay because they can no longer function back home. Holding a conversation with someone who is not subservient, having interests outside of work and bars and not hating all white women is beyond them so Asia is now the only place they can function.

NewImage
08-09-18, 14:17
So two of my regulars have been driving me nuts. They have always done this thing somewhat, but now its at a new level. In txt they are repeating everything I say when they ask me a question. Example:
Girl: Where you now Westy / Me: Condo. / Girl: You are condo Westy?
Yes, I think I said condo. And:
Girl: Did you take your breakfast / Me: Yes / Girl: You had your breakfast Westy / Me: Yes again / Girl: Whats your breakfast this day / Me: Cereal and toast / Girl: You have cereal toast Westy / Me: Yes that's what I said / Girl: What your plan today / Me: Might see a movie / Girl: You will see movie / Me: Yes.
These are 6+ year girls on different islands who don't know each other. They have become techno-parrots. Before, I was OK to the constant questions, but my short reply was good enough. No longer good enough, I must answer each question 2 x.Surely you know by now that brains and beauty are mutually exclusive. Its the price we must pay.

Why do Filipino girls like boob jobs?

Its the only job they're qualified for!

Simmer
08-09-18, 17:33
I was told that the stress in Tagalog is most commonly on the next to last syllable.You're right, I stand corrected. Maybe because I'm learning short words so it feels like it's the 2nd syllable!


I rarely hang out with expats any more because it usually becomes a litany of what's wrong with the country rather than a discussion of why the expats have lived here for more than 20 years. Something must be attractive for them to live through all this craziness.I have lived in a foreign country for years and I make no effort to find expats. I'd rather be among locals. I also have no interest in football / soccer which limits many expats' topics of conversation!

We are weighing up the options of moving to the Philippines for good. What's the point of a life where you spend 48+ hours a week working, only to pay most of your income back <rant held back , whereas I could have a nice house, grow some of my own food, go away every weekend. Advantages of an online income that remains the same no matter where your keyboard is. Pros and cons, of course.

Soapy Smith
08-09-18, 22:45
What's the point of a life where you spend 48+ hours a week working, only to pay most of your income back <rant held back , whereas I could have a nice house, grow some of my own food, go away every weekend. Advantages of an online income that remains the same no matter where your keyboard is. Pros and cons, of course.Loud applause: very heartening.

Soapy Smith
08-09-18, 23:18
For someone who visits the Philippines 2 or 3 times each year, you sure post a lot of negative things about pinays and their idiosyncrasies Westy.

(snip)

Something must be attractive for them to live through all this craziness.

Having just returned from a short 9-day visit to Australia (my country of origin), I must say I was glad to be back in Manila, notwithstanding the airport clusterfuck and the 2-hour trip to my condo.I interpret this and similar posts from Westy very differently. You acknowledge that "all this craziness" exists, so shouldn't it be okay to discuss it on a forum like ISG? I find (some) of the craziness I have experienced in the Philippines greatly entertaining, and I have developed a habit of trying to use it to reflect back on all that I take for granted as "normal" in my own (for now) country. Simmer and I recently exchanged forum posts about the "craziness" of conversation that moves through three or more languages in a single sentence. But for me, and probably for Simmer, those experiences support wonderment rather than criticism.

All communications require senders and receivers, and so interpreting a communication like Westy's as "negative" depends as much on the receiver as on the sender. At risk of being too philosophical, there's a great message in John Ciardi's classic little essay on "How does a poem mean"? He argues that poems do not have fixed meanings; rather poetry depends on the experience that is evoked from the poem. Westy's posts are not poetry (although some of his photos come close), but the experiences they evoke for me are laughter, wonderment, and some fond and not so fond memories, not disdain for Pinays or the Philippines.

The forum certainly has some serial broadbrush critics of all Pinays' "motives," but I rarely see you calling them out. Perhaps you have done like me and put people on "ignore" whose posts are consistently racist and ethnocentrically critical. But shouldn't we allow some leeway in the forum for occasionally discussing the craziness?

Sxxxx
08-10-18, 00:10
.................................... Why do Filipino girls like boob jobs? Its the only job they're qualified for!Ha ha, made me laugh.

But, without doubt, the Filipinos themselves will say: "the best job, is a blow job"!

WestCoast1
08-10-18, 02:43
I interpret this and similar posts from Westy very differently. You acknowledge that "all this craziness" exists, so shouldn't it be okay to discuss it on a forum like ISG?
SNIP
But shouldn't we allow some leeway in the forum for occasionally discussing the craziness?Concur. The local culture (good / bad / ugly) is worthy of discussion. If the good is worthy of display (ie, pics, pinay GFE), then so is the bad (Cebu Pacific and pinoy time come to mind). In my post I was not discussing the normal inane / vacuous questions the girls ask: Have you taken your lunch? I was pointing out the constant parroting and re-asking of my answer to the first question. This is new for me. Anyone else getting this?

If the Gen Info thread is not the correct place to discuss 'craziness', where is?

XXL
08-10-18, 03:09
... I was pointing out the constant parroting and re-asking of my answer to the first question. This is new for me. Anyone else getting this?
Could those girls be using an app that just bounces back your own lines in interrogative? That way they could run several conversations in parallel with minimal input.

Simmer
08-10-18, 03:35
Concur. The local culture (good / bad / ugly) is worthy of discussion. If the good is worthy of display (ie, pics, pinay GFE), then so is the bad (Cebu Pacific and pinoy time come to mind). In my post I was not discussing the normal inane / vacuous questions the girls ask: Have you taken your lunch? I was pointing out the constant parroting and re-asking of my answer to the first question. This is new for me. Anyone else getting this?

If the Gen Info thread is not the correct place to discuss 'craziness', where is?Phoning the Philippine Airlines call center is an exercise in patience and repeating yourself to confirm what you just said, and that yes you do still accept their Ts&Cs despite already confirming that by pressing 1 earlier.

But of course such idiosyncrasies are not limited to the Philippines. Apparently I'm too polite, using thank you too often. Then there are the McDonalds workers where a conversation goes something like this:

Me: I'd like a spicy chicken sandwich combo with coke, dine in please.

McD: Is that dine in or take out?

Me: Dine in.

McD: So a chicken sandwich. Do you want a combo?

Me: A *spicy* chicken sandwich combo with coke.

McD: Spicy chicken combo. What drink do you want?

Me: .

Then going to SM Dept Store on 1st September and commenting to a salesperson "Bit early to be playing Christmas music, isn't it?" to which she replies, completely seriously, "we need time to plan, sir".

But there are plenty of good things going for the Philippines and its people. It's quite something going to the provinces and visiting houses which are simple, cheap, rough, basic. But sometimes you're left thinking maybe, just maybe, we overdo things in the west. I was bemoaning the cost of AC earlier because houses here in California aren't designed to be naturally cooled by breezes, so you kind of have to use AC. In the provinces they employ far cheaper methods such as fans and houses that just vent naturally. As for growing your own stuff, people here think you're nuts. Pros and cons, as I keep saying.

Sxxxx
08-10-18, 05:41
Ha ha, made me laugh.

But, without doubt, the Filipinos themselves will say: "the best job, is a blow job"!Yes, well I typed Filipinas, not Filipinos, ending with an "a" , and not ending with an "o". As ending with an "o" includes the males, and I am referring to the females. I am not talking about blow jobs by males.

WestCoast1
08-10-18, 06:10
Could those girls be using an app that just bounces back your own lines in interrogative? That way they could run several conversations in parallel with minimal input.I don't think so. Except for changing my name here (to Westy from my real name), those parrots are actually what those girls wrote. Example:

Girl: Did you take your breakfast / Me: Yes / Girl: You had your breakfast Westy..

The girl's second question, "You had", is different from her first question, "Did you". It cannot be a bounce-back.

OTOH, in FB PM I am getting a duplicate message, but only from some girls. When she says, "OK see you then", within about 1 minute, there is another identical "OK see you then". However that's not happening in txt msg.


Then there are the McDonalds workers where a conversation goes something like this:

Me: I'd like a spicy chicken sandwich combo with coke, dine in please.

McD: Is that dine in or take out?

Me: Dine in.

McD: So a chicken sandwich. Do you want a combo?

Me: A *spicy* chicken sandwich combo with coke.

McD: Spicy chicken combo. What drink do you want?Hahaha. DON'T! GET! ME! STARTED!

Mogwai
08-10-18, 07:58
Having just returned from a short 9-day visit to Australia (my country of origin), I must say I was glad to be back in Manila, notwithstanding the airport clusterfuck and the 2-hour trip to my condo.I've never been to Australia but if you prefer Manila over Australia it must be really bad LOL.
Why is it so bad?

Socker
08-10-18, 15:11
If the Gen Info thread is not the correct place to discuss 'craziness', where is?Now even you're confused LOL.

General topics such as crazy Filipinas, airline tickets, traffic, visas, immigration, phones, I / e anything that pertains to the whole country belongs here.

Most guys here just don't care so the PI forum ends up being a lousy tossed salad. It's just so simple but some damage has been done.

Cheers Westie.

Soapy Smith
08-11-18, 15:55
I've never been to Australia but if you prefer Manila over Australia it must be really bad LOL.
Why is it so bad?I've never been to Australia, but I confess I go though withdrawal each time I leave Manila for the states. The principal things I like about the Philippines are:

1. Slower pace of life, easier to take things less seriously; there's a lot less scurrying around and anxiety over things that are actually quite trivial;.

2. Filipinos' sense of humor. If Westy were to tease those Pinays over some of those inanities, they'd probably be the first to laugh. My experience is that Filipinos are as willing to laugh at themselves as at others;.

3. People, or at least middle aged women, singing along with the radio in the workplace (if radios are allowed);.

4. Acceptance of us long-in-the-tooth men with younger Pinays; the equivalent in the states would quickly start the tongues wagging;.

5. Cheaper prices for almost everything; and.

6. Great sex.

Obviously there is a downside to life in the Philippines, especially in Manila: traffic, pollution, screwed up or incompetent systems, and politics that block change and invariably protect a handful of rich families (perhaps only a matter of degree different than most other countries).

Red Kilt
08-11-18, 16:11
I've never been to Australia but if you prefer Manila over Australia it must be really bad LOL.
Why is it so bad?I didn't express a preference for one place over the other; I merely said I was glad to be back in the Philippines.

I am lucky to have a balanced life in that I am able to spend time working in a number of SE Asian countries for short, intermittent periods and also have my own comfortable place in Ortigas which is clean, relatively disciplined, well serviced with facilities and is organized.

Visiting Australia is always hectic, stressful and extremely expensive but also enjoyable.

Dg8787
08-12-18, 01:44
Thanks to everyone's advice.

Flew out yesterday with Pinay to Hong Kong. At the immigration booth.

The officer apologize for the inconvenience but first timers are subject to an interview. At the interview desk they asked her the regular questions and had her fill out a form with questions regarding her travel and financial matters. They looked at her pictures to validate our prior relationship.

Then the officer ask me to come over for the interview. Regular questions to confirm her story. After that I was requested to fill out a form that I was taking care of her financial needs on the trip and will make sure she returns to PH. There was 2 statements that I signed to. Both stating that I was not using her for sex trafficking or selling sex. This was the main thrust of the interview. I believe she had to state the same.

After that the interview officer filled out the rest and stamped approval for travel and told her to go to booth 26. Problem was no one at booth 26! And no other booth would take her. Back to interview officer about no one at booth 26. Officer says only booth 26 can process her. Waited 5 minutes and new rotation of booth people come out. Finally someone takes booth 26 and rubber stamps her passport.

Bushes
08-12-18, 04:56
Thanks for sharing. Having to sign statements makes me more nervous. Enjoy the rain.


There was 2 statements that I signed to. Both stating that I was not using her for sex trafficking or selling sex. This was the main thrust of the interview.

Dg8787
08-12-18, 09:36
Landing in HKG and my Pinay was flagged in immigration. She was questioned and I was asked to show prove of the hotel reservation and her return ticket. After 10 minutes she was released to go.

I guess the first timers are a risk of over staying.

BTW, both Manila and Hong Kong immigration people were professional in their interviews and process.

Dg8787
08-12-18, 09:40
Thanks for sharing. Having to sign statements makes me more nervous. Enjoy the rain.The statements were more for show than anything else. A few paragraphs and that was it. I think this shows to the UN and other concerned countries that PH is working against sex trafficking.

Wicked Roger
08-12-18, 10:49
The statements were more for show than anything else. A few paragraphs and that was it. I think this shows to the UN and other concerned countries that PH is working against sex trafficking.I agree DG. Signed the same. Twice on one occasion as had 2 bisexual pinays with me to another Asian country. Plus as a back up had their parents sign an affidavit and once the immigration got a ta testy and I felt her jealousy was going to ruin the party I showed her that and it shut her up fast. But I still signed the statements.

Saw a Dutch guy be asked the same for his wife. That was hilarious as he took huge umbrage and caused a real stink in the passport area. More so as they had their kids with them and the passport all had same surname.

Very strange fellows the Philippines immigration people at times.

TurdyCurdyOne
08-12-18, 11:29
Maybe you have been a victim of these Philippine forums that delete posts for no reason, delete accounts because you defend yourself against their paid members who flame or attack you unprovoked, or for your criticizing some business or friend they have a cozy relationship with.

This is so common online. There is only one word for it: Corruption The main Cebu forum is particularly bad in this regard. Usually what happens to these forums is that members soon learn to be afraid to post anything that might be the slightest bit controversial or to defend themselves against unwarranted attacks by paid members who are given special flaming privileges that make them immune to most verbal retaliation.

Most of the major Philippine forums are like this. And they are so afraid someone will sneak in and challenge them that they make it difficult to even create an account. Difficult for the ordinary user, but not for someone who knows anything about how these corrupt operates work. They refer to anyone they don't like who posts info they don't like as spammers. 90% of the time has nothing to do with the classical definition of spamming-promoting sites for commercial purposes. It's only they don't like your opinions or you challenge their opinions.

This post will probably also draw flames from those who are ready to defend corrupt sites that they have a special interest in.

The thing to do with such sites is block their advertising revenue by using adblockers (I have not done this for this site, since it is usually one of the more professionally run sites). Do not give them any good content. Only leech off what the other members are sending out. Bleed them dry.

Usually they will dry up until it's time to find another owner (sucker) to take over.

The internet is a big place, you do not have to put up with mistreatment..

Bushes
08-12-18, 18:50
IMHO, that is normal for almost every country. There are some common minimum rules like passport valid for 9 months and such. Some places even require an invite to visit. The countries website will list the requirements. FWIW, HK is pretty open and relaxed.


She was questioned and I was asked to show prove of the hotel reservation and her return ticket. After 10 minutes she was released to go..

Goferring
08-12-18, 22:11
Maybe you have been a victim of these Philippine forums that delete posts for no reason,

The internet is a big place, you do not have to put up with mistreatment..150 posts and they are all angry. . . . Someone needs a hug. 🤗.

WestCoast1
08-13-18, 08:52
This might have been asked before: Why is the Link to Cebu thread under the User Blog?

Socker
08-17-18, 06:10
150 posts and they are all angry. . . . Someone needs a hug. 🤗.Excellent response.

This issue of Turdy's is relevant though but not to the degree he spoke of it. It's not easy to post here if you've made a few mistakes, which I have clearly done. I've learned my lessons (from the mods) but I'm still on the bad boy list. Anyhow, that was a funny post, thanks.

Socker
08-17-18, 06:43
Concur. Hanging around WR might mean lots of late morning or early afternoon jaunts to his 'office', a coffee shop in Ayala. He might even toss a girl or two your way. If a man MUST die, having caffeine and poon thrown at him MIGHT be the way to go?I too would like to show my appreciation for guys like WR (not many) but not where it doesn't belong, in the AC Forum. It belongs here, the General Forum.

Why am I one of the very few to know this? Who the fuck knows? Nevertheless here goes.

Cebu used to be in my rotation and before my first trip I had been PMing w / WR about the city. He was very giving of his time and insights. I never hooked up w / any of his friends mainly because I like the early 20 somethings and his friends are a little older. They are more fun of course (skilled) so there is a part of me that regrets my plan making but I am what I am. I like the road less traveled.

Regardless of that he is one hell of a dude. He gave me a lot of confidence in a new big city and he didn't have to, he's just a super nice guy. I'm glad he's getting his kudos and hope he has a long horny future. Cheers WR.

Mahku
08-17-18, 07:02
So apparently a Xiamen Airways flight skidded off the runway at midnight last night. Even some 13 hours later they haven't been able to move it. Therefore MNL's one and only runway that can handle widebody aircraft is shut down until they figure out a way to move the thing. I'm on a Philippine Airlines flight that was diverted to BKK. That might sound ok but the thing is they have trapped us in a gate area of the airport with no option to leave or even go out to the main departure area to order a drink or something. So far in 3+ hours they only gave us a small bottle of water and this small box of sweets and junk food.

This has always been my fear flying into MNL. Just one little thing can shut everything down indefinitely. Apparently Clark and Cebu and so on are already full with diverted flights and can't take more.

And what's really awesome is there seems to be no real plan in the works to improve things. Lots of talk about different plans but nothing's even close to starting construction. So it's going to be like this for years and years to come.

Kabul Guy
08-18-18, 00:44
....

This has always been my fear flying into MNL. Just one little thing can shut everything down indefinitely. Apparently Clark and Cebu and so on are already full with diverted flights and can't take more.

.....This is not a little thing. It was a potential disaster and could have resulted in massive loss of life.

Shit happens, this happens all over the world and when it does no major airport can handle losing one of its major runways for a period of time without ripple effects throughout the entire system.

Other airports are not equipped to deal with passengers originally destined for a different country. There will be people on your flight that cannot be admitted and the easiest way for the airport to deal with it is to keep everyone in a quarantine situation. Since they are not equipped to deal with several hundred passangers in a situation where food and drink is normally available, you don't get much for a while.

Mahku
08-19-18, 10:01
This is not a little thing. It was a potential disaster and could have resulted in massive loss of life.

Shit happens, this happens all over the world and when it does no major airport can handle losing one of its major runways for a period of time without ripple effects throughout the entire system.

Other airports are not equipped to deal with passengers originally destined for a different country. There will be people on your flight that cannot be admitted and the easiest way for the airport to deal with it is to keep everyone in a quarantine situation. Since they are not equipped to deal with several hundred passangers in a situation where food and drink is normally available, you don't get much for a while.Finally arrived at the hotel in Makati around 1 am, a good 37 hours after schedule. After touching down at NAIA last night we had to wait 3 hours for an open gate or parking place. Later at night they apparaently closed the airport again because it was full and I guess flights once again had to be diverted. Mercifully, by the time we were bused to the terminal immigration had mostly cleared out, and taxi lines weren't too bad. Also the fact that it had gotten so late meant that there was none of the usual Manila traffic to deal with. My lady friend was kind enough to wait for me in Greenbelt and we still made an evening of it at Club Royal and early in the morning back at the hotel.

It's true that this wasn't a small thing and thank God nobody got hurt. But I would put it to you that because this runway is vital for an area that contains 10's of millions of people they should have a plan for this kind of thing. As it was they stood around and scratched their balls for a day and a half before they finally brought a crane. And this is before we even get into the idea that they should have had a new airport years ago like pretty much every other city in the region does by now.

Yes, BKK and PAL took the easy way out and quarantined us. God knows why they couldn't let us into the departure area of the airport, which is outside of immigration and wouldn't involve visa issues. Just run everyone through security and it should be fine. If you've ever been in that airport you know there's food galore. It shouldn't have been hard to arrange something more than a bottle of water and a couple of buns. Or just let us the hell out of the gate so we can hit the overpriced restaurants. I would've had access to a lounge with my credit card.

The follies continued in the afternoon and evening. They bused us back out to the plane. We sat for another 5 hours. It turned out that the plane hadn't been moved and there was never any hope of flying. God knows why they sent us back to the plane. After even more hours of fiddling with the Thai authorities we were finally bused back to the terminal a second time and allowed out of immigration. PAL had a hotel arranged but it involved waiting in line with hundreds of people for a shuttle bus and checking. I just made my own arrangements. It sounds good to have an unexpected night in Bangkok. But by this time it was getting close to midnight. After all that had happened I wasn't much in the mood for hitting Sukhumvuit bars or anything like that.

So if you want to be an apologist for all this nonsense then good for you. I'm not having it. This is my 3rd time in the last year and a half to lose more than one day of a vacation because of Philippine airports or airline ridiculousness. As much as I love this country I'm wondering how much more I'm willing to put up with.

Wicked Roger
08-20-18, 08:12
It's true that this wasn't a small thing and thank God nobody got hurt. But I would put it to you that because this runway is vital for an area that contains 10's of millions of people they should have a plan for this kind of thing. As it was they stood around and scratched their balls for a day and a half before they finally brought a crane. And this is before we even get into the idea that they should have had a new airport years ago like pretty much every other city in the region does by now.

So if you want to be an apologist for all this nonsense then good for you. I'm not having it. This is my 3rd time in the last year and a half to lose more than one day of a vacation because of Philippine airports or airline ridiculousness. As much as I love this country I'm wondering how much more I'm willing to put up with.Previous governments have done nothing about this as we both know. Having a Senate inquiry will achieve nothing. One blogger said all it does is expose the lack of will of earlier senators to resolve a known problem.

But being stuck in BKK is better then JED / RUH Makhu as I have experienced (and I think you have).

BrainDrain
08-20-18, 11:51
Cebu used to be in my rotation and before my first trip I had been PMing w / WR about the city. He was very giving of his time and insights. .Ditto to WR. Met at Ayala, then a few months later he helped me with a couple of girls with a foursome. Crazy days.

ForkTruck
08-21-18, 07:02
Plenty to not know when trying to get a cellphone to work here. After 2 weeks I am getting a little smarter. At the airport I loaded Smart sim and enough time and internet to cover my 3 weeks. Twice now I have been texted by smart that I am expired and the darn thing quit working. When I go to a 7/11 or similar and ask why this is happening I get blank stares and a "I don't know sir". One hotel CP "expert" told me I should have gotten Globe instead of Smart because Smart will randomly take load away from your phone. I don't really know the truth and it seems no one else that I have found does either. Just a caution to new arrivals, be prepared for a steep learning curve if your experience is like mine.

Dazhiba
08-21-18, 15:56
I'm planning some travels soon and don't seem to find much of anything about Cebu? Is there a special location here for a Cebu thread? Recommendations for hotels there are also appreciated, to too fancy, not sleezy. Thanks, Daz.

Nolz7
08-21-18, 18:21
I'm planning some travels soon and don't seem to find much of anything about Cebu? Is there a special location here for a Cebu thread? Recommendations for hotels there are also appreciated, to too fancy, not sleezy. Thanks, Daz.Here's the link dude- http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/forumdisplay.php?773-The-Philippines-Cebu.

WestCoast1
08-21-18, 23:05
When I go to a 7/11 or similar and ask why this is happening I get blank stares and a "I don't know sir". One hotel CP "expert" told me I should have gotten Globe instead of Smart because Smart will randomly take load away from your phone. I don't really know the truth and it seems no one else that I have found does either. Just a caution to new arrivals, be prepared for a steep learning curve if your experience is like mine.Walk yourself into the nearest mall that has a Smart location (ask the locals). They will help you. Regarding calls, is your 3-week plan Unlimited (locals call it Unli)? Regarding your data (internet), the plans have limits (called 'Fair Use' limits). For example, your plan might have a 10 GB limit: once reached, it slows you down to 2 g speed (which is barely passable for web browsing). Hit the Smart store, not a convenience store.

Wicked Roger
08-21-18, 23:33
I'm planning some travels soon and don't seem to find much of anything about Cebu? Is there a special location here for a Cebu thread? Recommendations for hotels there are also appreciated, to too fancy, not sleezy. Thanks, Daz.If you has RTFF you can see the Cebu section. Well is so simple is in the Asian section.

But you ask a lot a questions and were in Gen San based on an earlier questions so we don't see anything on that visit in 2017? See the link in the relevant section and RTFF as it is all there if you have 15-30 minutes.

Charm City Dave
08-22-18, 00:43
And have Data wherever I go. I have used it in 9 countries without a problem. Instead of describing the service here is a link. If you activate through the link you get a $20 discount.

https://g.co/fi/r/AV50AT


Walk yourself into the nearest mall that has a Smart location (ask the locals). They will help you. Regarding calls, is your 3-week plan Unlimited (locals call it Unli)? Regarding your data (internet), the plans have limits (called 'Fair Use' limits). For example, your plan might have a 10 GB limit: once reached, it slows you down to 2 g speed (which is barely passable for web browsing). Hit the Smart store, not a convenience store.

D Cups
08-22-18, 05:44
A perfect summary of PI, SS. Cheers.


I've never been to Australia, but I confess I go though withdrawal each time I leave Manila for the states. The principal things I like about the Philippines are:

1. Slower pace of life, easier to take things less seriously; there's a lot less scurrying around and anxiety over things that are actually quite trivial;.

2. Filipinos' sense of humor. If Westy were to tease those Pinays over some of those inanities, they'd probably be the first to laugh. My experience is that Filipinos are as willing to laugh at themselves as at others;.

3. People, or at least middle aged women, singing along with the radio in the workplace (if radios are allowed);.

4. Acceptance of us long-in-the-tooth men with younger Pinays; the equivalent in the states would quickly start the tongues wagging;..

WestCoast1
08-22-18, 10:32
And have Data wherever I go. I have used it in 9 countries without a problem. Instead of describing the service here is a link. If you activate through the link you get a $20 discount.

https://g.co/fi/r/AV50ATThanks the info CCD. But looking at the website, it appears to run on only a handful of their phones? Or, does it run on any android / iPhone? Also see the pics. ON the website you can enter any city or address and see a map of their coverage (none, 2 g, 3 g, 4 g LTE). I entered Chicago in the search bar and the entire map is dark green (4 g LTE, you can see from the pic). But for Manila and Cebu, the map is white (no coverage, see pic). Did I miss something?

WC.

Dg8787
08-22-18, 14:15
In PH SIM cards are pretty easy to use.

1. Buy enough load for package.

2. Register for unli texting package, data and / or calls.

3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 again when package expires.

Wicked Roger
08-22-18, 17:19
In PH SIM cards are pretty easy to use.

1. Buy enough load for package.

2. Register for unli texting package, data and / or calls.

3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 again when package expires.You forgot the earlier stage DG if Korean.

Go to the Globe Express lane in Ayala (Cebu) for example and ask a team member to show you how to insert the SIM and activate it.

LOL.

You think am joking. I have seen that more times than I care to remember and many get totally pissed off they take so much time when it is supposed to Express.

Breadman
08-22-18, 17:31
And have Data wherever I go. I have used it in 9 countries without a problem. Instead of describing the service here is a link. If you activate through the link you get a $20 discount.

https://g.co/fi/r/AV50ATI'm going out a a limb and saying they are paying T'mobile's a fee to access their worldwide coverage plan and spin it as their own. T'mobile has coverage all over the world except for one country where they couldn't get a data plan agreement on prices from the mobile providers servicing that country: Vietnam. Click on that link and Vietnam is also missing from coverage from their list. Billing looks the same somewhat but with some tweaks here and there. My T'mobile plan is the old 'one plan' that gave me free data and texts worldwide for my basic $50 rate although I added on $10 per month to get more data and have that data roll over each month. Only downside of the free data worldwide is the throttled back 2 G speed but that actual speed does vary a bit in some countries. Some give you the regular speed without holding anything back, other places such as Germany make pages load pretty slowly.

Bushes
08-22-18, 19:20
The first thing I suspect is your phone. Or one of its settings. I am not sure if you got a new one or if you got the right bands.

Secondly, as other have said, it is simple. Most stores will be able to sort out the obvious. I suspect you should do a factory reset as you might have an used phone.

Third. Turn off sync on mobile data and sync only on wifi.

Four. I saw some ads for unlimited plans specials. Still pretty cheap if I recall.

Five. IMHO, a roaming SIM just ties you over when you land. A local prepaid gives you anonymity and the caller can call and text you locally. Cheaper for some of the gals who cannot afford data.

They are also less inclined to help you since you did not get the phone from them. As I mentioned before, the right phone makes your life easier and keeps those Kodak moments. The great thing about iPhones is that support is great if you walk into their store. They really do try to help you. It is nice. But you pay the price.


Plenty to not know when trying to get a cellphone to work here. After 2 weeks I am getting a little smarter. At the airport I loaded Smart sim and enough time and internet to cover my 3 weeks. Twice now I have been texted by smart that I am expired and the darn thing quit working. When I go to a 7/11 or similar and ask why this is happening I get blank stares and a "I don't know sir". One hotel CP "expert" told me I should have gotten Globe instead of Smart because Smart will randomly take load away from your phone. I don't really know the truth and it seems no one else that I have found does either. Just a caution to new arrivals, be prepared for a steep learning curve if your experience is like mine..

Dg8787
08-23-18, 01:02
You forgot the earlier stage DG if Korean.

Go to the Globe Express lane in Ayala (Cebu) for example and ask a team member to show you how to insert the SIM and activate it.

LOL.

You think am joking. I have seen that more times than I care to remember and many get totally pissed off they take so much time when it is supposed to Express.I am sure it isn't just Koreans that don't know how. Many others don't know what a SIM card is.

BTW, one other important aspect. If your cp has dual sim? Yes duo as in 2 sims, then put your primary SIM in SIM 1 slot. SIM 1 will get the better connection like 4 g or LTE. SIM 2 will only get 3 g or 2 g in most cp.

Kabul Guy
08-23-18, 01:18
.....

So if you want to be an apologist for all this nonsense then good for you. I'm not having it. This is my 3rd time in the last year and a half to lose more than one day of a vacation because of Philippine airports or airline ridiculousness. As much as I love this country I'm wondering how much more I'm willing to put up with.I am not being an apologist for anyone, just pointing out that shit happens and crying over it does not do any good.

If you really feel that way, perhaps you can find the perfect place where everything goes your way all the time.

Let us know when and if you find it.

Dg8787
08-23-18, 01:46
3rd world countries have 3rd world problems. There is no 911 or Calvary coming to help. Immediate response might be days away at the earliest.

I am actually surprised that NAIA was back up running in 36 hours!

The private jet that was completely blown off the runway in Tacloban took about a year to get hauled off. Good thing it was far enough off the runway to not hinder landings and takeoffs.

ForkTruck
08-23-18, 02:58
After 3 weeks here I am leaving Cebu for Manila before returning to USA And wanted to thank each of you for being informative and making my stay so much fun. Although I don't post titillating adventures as Mr DG likes to read it is because I don't have such wild adventures. I am over 70 years old so my adventures are plain vanilla by comparison. I am amazed at the beautiful women I see everyday walking down the street, It is awesome. At my age I have more money than time left so each day in the Philippines is beautiful. I hope to have a condo here by the end of next year to enjoy part time although I don't know where yet. I do hope my posts have in some small way helped a new or pending arrival.

Goferring
08-23-18, 03:58
3rd world countries have 3rd world problems. There is no 911 or Calvary coming to help.


I am not being an apologist for anyone, just pointing out that shit happens and crying over it does not do any good.

If you really feel that way, perhaps you can find the perfect place where everything goes your way all the time.

Let us know when and if you find it.It looks like Mahku may have found his Asia threashhold. Trivial things that appear quaint or laughable when we first arrive can become major trigger points after a thousand times. Brown outs, sketchy phone systems and pina logic are just a few.

I know I've totally lost my shit before when my mobile failed one too many times.

Dg8787
08-23-18, 04:01
After 3 weeks here I am leaving Cebu for Manila before returning to USA And wanted to thank each of you for being informative and making my stay so much fun. Although I don't post titillating adventures as Mr DG likes to read it is because I don't have such wild adventures. I am over 70 years old so my adventures are plain vanilla by comparison. I am amazed at the beautiful women I see everyday walking down the street, It is awesome. At my age I have more money than time left so each day in the Philippines is beautiful. I hope to have a condo here by the end of next year to enjoy part time although I don't know where yet. I do hope my posts have in some small way helped a new or pending arrival.Thanks for your report. I wasn't looking for any titillaing reports. I have my own memories to flash back on.

I am only looking for feedback on the information given and maybe some advice for everyone else. I am close to your age and am not looking for adventure other than a variety of bed partners. I too have more money than time. Personally I like to travel to different places and like daily room service so I won't be buying a condo. I have owned real estate and really don't want to add anymore real estate responsibility.

The women are beautiful!

Goferring
08-23-18, 04:23
I am over 70 years old so my adventures are plain vanilla by comparison. I am amazed at the beautiful women I see everyday walking down the street, It is awesome. At my age I have more money than time left so each day in the Philippines is beautiful.FL, good to read that you enjoyed your visit and yes, your posts did contribute to the board. Its always good to read of others experience from different view points.

I actually get jealous of old guys in Asia. In many ways they are the girls' ideal market. They are carefree and just out to have as much fun as possible as soon as possible. Contrast this to middle aged divorsees who are still bitter and twisted and hate the world.

Trading waiting to die in a nursing home for snuggling up to a nice brown bossom sounds like a good deal to me. Just be careful. I hope it's a long way off for you but I know a few oldies that have met their maker in Asia, a few were even mid stroke at the time 😁 🤤.

Then again, it's hard to imagine a better way to go.

All the best, G.

Dg8787
08-23-18, 04:34
3rd world countries have 3rd world problems. There is no 911 or Calvary coming to help. Immediate response might be days away at the earliest.

I am actually surprised that NAIA was back up running in 36 hours!

The private jet that was completely blown off the runway in Tacloban took about a year to get hauled off. Good thing it was far enough off the runway to not hinder landings and takeoffs.Bottom line: Does 3rd world benefits out weight 3rd world issues?

Kabul Guy
08-23-18, 10:28
3rd world countries have 3rd world problems. There is no 911 or Calvary coming to help. Immediate response might be days away at the earliest.

....I saw the pictures of the crane used to lift the aircraft. While Manila would be big enough to have one around this size crane is not all that common, add in all the slings and rigging plus someone experienced enough to actually do the rigging and I would bet that 36 hours would be about the best any airport in the world could do. This is not your normal run of the mill pick that occurs on construction sites on a daily basis. I also imagine that a crane pad had to be constructed to support the crane and the load without damaging the runway structure.

My home city population about 700 k is a 10 hour highway drive from the nearest crane that size and it would only travel about half the speed of a normal car or truck on the highway due to its size. (I am a construction engineer, I actually still have the company that owns it in my contacts.) Even in an emergency when the people realized immediately that it was needed, it would be 24 hours to get it on site and another several hours to get it set up, assuming it was available and not several hours on the other side of its home city and that the rigging and riggers were also available. I would also guess that this crane could only travel on Manila streets after dark or it would get gridlocked in traffic and not be able to move, nor would anyone else for many hours.

I would guess that just about any city that is not an industrial economy would have very similar problems.

Bushes
08-23-18, 14:31
Mahku. You will be surprised what happens if you travel enough. There was another airport on an island state that ended closing for several days. Luckily, I was able to divert and take a train to London. Heathrow ended up being closed for several days. I got hit again on the return so had to divert.

I sat on a plane in Chicago for several hours before they cancelled the flight because the crew would have been over their work limit. I thought the pilots would just flip on the autopilot, paste their newspapers over the windscreen (like the Air India pilots) and take a nap. On another flight, I was pumped that we were almost an hour ahead of schedule. We however ended up sitting on the plane for an hour waiting for US customs to start work.

I cannot tell you number of times I have been delayed in Denver. Flights were taking off but crew could not get to the airport. I was lucky to get out of Houston a day before everything was shut down at IAH for like a week. There were no hotels or rental cars.


It looks like Mahku may have found his Asia threashhold.


I saw the pictures of the crane used to lift the aircraft..

D Cups
08-23-18, 14:52
Trading waiting to die in a nursing home for snuggling up to a nice brown bossom sounds like a good deal to me. Just be careful. I hope it's a long way off for you but I know a few oldies that have met their maker in Asia, a few were even mid stroke at the time 😁 🤤.

Then again, it's hard to imagine a better way to go..Well, that's my plan, too. I'll retire in PI probably Duma area in 2022 or 3 at the age of 67 and will snuggle up with several or maybe a special one. Too expensive to retire in California plus old people are basically ignored here. The Pinays are known for their caretaking and lovemaking abilities if nothing else.

Mogwai
08-24-18, 08:24
I saw the pictures of the crane used to lift the aircraft. While Manila would be big enough to have one around this size crane is not all that common, add in all the slings and rigging plus someone experienced enough to actually do the rigging and I would bet that 36 hours would be about the best any airport in the world could do.
SNIP
I am a construction engineerAlways nice to read the point of view of a guy who knows what he's talking about. It demonstrates ones again that another man's job is often not as easy as it looks.

Mogwai
08-24-18, 08:35
Bottom line: Does 3rd world benefits out weight 3rd world issues?Let me see. Benefits: pussy. Issues: everything else.
Pussy wins.

Bushes
08-24-18, 08:59
Elementary Watson. It is not a matter of size. We obviously know which head is in control.


Let me see. Benefits: pussy. Issues: everything else.
Pussy wins.

ShooBree
08-24-18, 14:13
You conveniently forget that all these inclusive examples you mention were essentially native-free. Maybe we should have eradicated the original population to build a better tomorrow.

How are the former british colonies in africa doing BTW? Are they shining examples of inclusiveness too?

Cheers.It's funny that the Spanish colonies became among the most violent countries in the world.

https://nordic.businessinsider.com/most-violent-cities-in-the-world-2018-3?r=US&IR=T

WestCoast1
08-28-18, 05:37
Few nights ago I 'go around' with one of my regulars (posted in PG). It was an especially lovely evening. She's a booby twiglet, and she was feeling especially girly and happy. She sang videoke, then she danced herself horny. In the taxi back to my place, she was still feeling randy, and she hopped into my lap in the back seat and started a make-out session. In the bed was a memorable session, ending with her pulling me deeply inside her with her ankles dug into my ass as I came, not letting me go even after. Lovely!

And its more fun in Phils, right? I wake up in the middle of the night to weewee. Even in the dark, I can see her at the sink, naked, leaning over the sink, scrubbing something. I look over her shoulder (not sure if she knew I was behind her) as she scrubbed furiously. She was using my toothbrush to scrub a coffee mug. WTF? She put some Joy dish soap into the mug and mixed it with water with my toothbrush. Then she grabbed one of her shoes ('sleeper') and began scrubbing the show with my toothbrush. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! WTF! I stepped away and went to the CR. She was still cleaning her shoes in the dark when I went back to bed. In the morning we went for coffee / pastry and she went home from the coffee shop. When I went back to the hotel, there was my toothbrush, put back into its holder on the sink, like nothing happened. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. Went to Ayala to pick up another one. Gosh her shoes were clean.

What *ELSE* has she effed with in the dark over the years? Where *ELSE* has she put my toothbrush over the years? Hahaha.

Bushes
08-28-18, 07:58
She must have stepped in something and was trying to clean it off. Happens a lot in PI.


Even in the dark, I can see her at the sink, naked, leaning over the sink, scrubbing something. I look over her shoulder (not sure if she knew I was behind her) as she scrubbed furiously. She was using my toothbrush to scrub a coffee mug. WTF? She put some Joy dish soap into the mug and mixed it with water with my toothbrush. Then she grabbed one of her shoes ('sleeper') and began scrubbing the show with my toothbrush. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! WTF! I stepped away and went to the CR. She was still cleaning her shoes in the dark when I went back to bed. In the morning we went for coffee / pastry and she went home from the coffee shop. When I went back to the hotel, there was my toothbrush, put back into its holder on the sink, like nothing happened. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. Went to Ayala to pick up another one. Gosh her shoes were clean.

What *ELSE* has she effed with in the dark over the years? Where *ELSE* has she put my toothbrush over the years? Hahaha..

Mua Tur
08-28-18, 10:09
........She was using my toothbrush to scrub a coffee mug. WTF? She put some Joy dish soap into the mug and mixed it with water with my toothbrush. Then she grabbed one of her shoes ('sleeper') and began scrubbing the show with my toothbrush. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! WTF! I stepped away and went to the CR. She was still cleaning her shoes in the dark when I went back to bed. In the morning we went for coffee / pastry and she went home from the coffee shop. When I went back to the hotel, there was my toothbrush, put back into its holder on the sink, like nothing happened. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. Went to Ayala to pick up another one. Gosh her shoes were clean.

What *ELSE* has she effed with in the dark over the years? Where *ELSE* has she put my toothbrush over the years? Hahaha.You made my belly bump. What a fun. Gosh I will find some one no shoes.

Dg8787
08-29-18, 01:10
She must have stepped in something and was trying to clean it off. Happens a lot in PI.

.Damn good cleaning if you asked me. Sounds like a keeper!

Mr Enternational
08-29-18, 06:08
In the morning we went for coffee / pastry and she went home from the coffee shop.So what you are telling us is that you didn't brush your teeth that morning (I hope).

Bushes
08-29-18, 19:28
Yes, someone did once say cleanliness is next to godliness! Met a Filipina in the US who wanted me to hire her daughter in the Philippines. Started showing me pictures on her phone and basically said ALL my needs will be met. And she said that on top of that, the daughter cleans well. The problem was she has too close to home and knew all my details and background on our first meeting. LOL! There was another mother in another city who started basically interviewing me with her doctor daughter next to her. Funny thing was that the girl was not as uncomfortable as I was!


Damn good cleaning if you asked me. Sounds like a keeper!

Lucky777
09-04-18, 12:54
Hi fellow mongers,

After past 15 years of mongering around Thailand and twice in Africa (Kenya&Ghana) I have the opportunity to visit Philippines for 10-12 days (end Oct-beginning of Nov). I was already reading trough forums in Philippines section and saw that things are changing there also like in Thailand. As mongering is not a must do priority for every day and I'm not a barfine type of Monger I could use some help from you. I land in Manila so it would be a must to check Manila or AC for few days and for the other 7 days I'm thinking about visiting some place with nice beaches, some landmarks and decent night life. As I've read the forum Cebu is the most suitable place for that or I'm wrong? I'm in early 40's with some experience and know exactly what I want (mostly FL) and how I want, I know how to turn around and also I think I know how to avoid from LB (If there are similar like in Thailand). I also always check the forums not overpaying the service and I'm not a cheap charlie, but as I've read the Philippines are packed with Korean and Japanese mongers and I really don't want to compete with them.

Thank you for your advises in advance and best regards.

Lucky777.

Socker
09-09-18, 21:01
Hi fellow mongers,

After past 15 years of mongering around Thailand and twice in Africa (Kenya&Ghana) I have the opportunity to visit Philippines for 10-12 days (end Oct-beginning of Nov). I was already reading trough forums in Philippines section and saw that things are changing there also like in Thailand. As mongering is not a must do priority for every day and I'm not a barfine type of Monger I could use some help from you. I land in Manila so it would be a must to check Manila or AC for few days and for the other 7 days I'm thinking about visiting some place with nice beaches, some landmarks and decent night life. As I've read the forum Cebu is the most suitable place for that or I'm wrong? I'm in early 40's with some experience and know exactly what I want (mostly FL) and how I want, I know how to turn around and also I think I know how to avoid from LB (If there are similar like in Thailand). I also always check the forums not overpaying the service and I'm not a cheap charlie, but as I've read the Philippines are packed with Korean and Japanese mongers and I really don't want to compete with them.

Thank you for your advises in advance and best regards.

Lucky777.In Manila the Makati area near Burgos St is the easiest for a newbIE. There is a FL scene every night and are some nice items to be found, a bit hit and miss though. Stay at a hotel close to Burgos and you can walk to the street, it's a safe area. You don't like bars but they are worth visiting for the air con, cold beer and the eye candy. Many have happy hour prices so you can have fun for around 4 K if you negotiate. Puerto Galera is a half day trip from Manila and it's a quaint beach town full of divers (many Ks). There are 5 bars in the very little town of Sabang and the selection is good. PG's BGs will cost you 3 K and tip if you care to. They are much more friendly and giving than their big city counterparts.

Cebu used to be really good w / Mango Square bars being the epicenter of hot FilipinAs w more Spanish traits but Mango Sq (from what I hear) has been repressed by the local government and is not what it once was. This is where (IMO) the hottest BGs I've ever seen were. As for the FL scene not far from MS there was a disco w an adjacent open air restaurant and big parking lot that was fun to shop in. Just a few blocks down from Mango Sq. There are still clubs (check Cebu Forum) but not as good as before.

Cebu is still a great location to get away to tropical paradises. I've been to Bantayan and to Bohol while staying in Cebu, both a few hours away. Both places are beautiful w great beaches and food but BYOG if you want company. I liked Bohol better than Bantayan but both are stunning.

And for the K issue, they're not a problem. Without their presence many bars would close due to lack of customers. There are K only women but they're fewer of them than a couple of years ago. From what I hear from some BGs Ks don't fuck well and these BGs want to be fucked well so sometimes we have an edge in competition. If you snooze you will probably lose.

AC is my favorite place but it lacks stunners so if you're into 8's, and 9's AC will let you down. OTOH where can you have a pool party with 2 cuties you find in the perimeter bars for less than a $100, bikinis $4. IMO AC is a must do but it's a little shithole of a town full of cute 6's, and a few 7's and 8's. I like it all, shithole or not. Good hotels there are Queens (2 blocks from Fields), ABC (the best, 6 blocks), Lewis Grand Hotel (in the middle between Fields and the Perimeter). There are many more, just get a map of the bar scene and decide where you want to be. It's safe in AC as long as you stay in the tourist areas. Elementary mongering just like in Makati.

Okay, maybe this will help. When you're done file a trip report on ISG. Cheers.

PedroMorales
09-10-18, 11:56
http://www.pchrd.dost.gov.ph/index.php/news/library-health-news/4538-is-executive-check-up-a-waste-of-money

The above is a Pinoy government site telling us mega check ups are a waste of cash. I have to get some serious, specialised medical tests and work done though it may already be too late. Is the Philippines a good place for that? I've been to the Pamapnga hospital getting the pox removed but this is not sexual and not run of the mill.

Regarding retiring in the Phils etc, to me, it is a risk / reward thing. The Pampanga expats, who have their routine (beer in the afternoon before wife brings them home, having checked they are not playing the field), tell me you have to cut the contacts wit home. Though all of us are headed for a hole in the ground, unless Jesus returns beforehand, I don't fancy having a lingering stroke and being at the mercy of the dregs of Pinoy society.

The basic deal with OAPs and SE Asians is it is essentially P4 P no matter how we dress it up. They do not want flowers and roses. They want Visa and unless we can control the Visa, we can end up penniless in SEAsia, with no exit hope.

D Cups
09-10-18, 13:46
Okay, maybe this will help. When you're done file a trip report on ISG. Cheers.Very nice summary, Socker. Lucky777, I would add that a side trip to Subic from Angeles is worthwhile IMO. Go to the floating bar and w*house off Treasure Island Resort if you go in November. Also, south Cebu around Alcoy or Dalaguete is nice if you BYO from Cebu City or you can ride the bus and take the ferry into the next island to Dumaguete and rent a motorbike up in the hills west for more sightseeing, hot springs, Forest Camp but again BYO. By BYO I mean bring your own Filipina that you meet from Cebu City. The girls are fairly easy to meet and oh so sweet.

Dg8787
09-10-18, 23:25
http://www.pchrd.dost.gov.ph/index.php/news/library-health-news/4538-is-executive-check-up-a-waste-of-money

The above is a Pinoy government site telling us mega check ups are a waste of cash. I have to get some serious, specialised medical tests and work done though it may already be too late. Is the Philippines a good place for that? I've been to the Pamapnga hospital getting the pox removed but this is not sexual and not run of the mill.

Regarding retiring in the Phils etc, to me, it is a risk / reward thing. The Pampanga expats, who have their routine (beer in the afternoon before wife brings them home, having checked they are not playing the field), tell me you have to cut the contacts wit home. Though all of us are headed for a hole in the ground, unless Jesus returns beforehand, I don't fancy having a lingering stroke and being at the mercy of the dregs of Pinoy society.

The basic deal with OAPs and SE Asians is it is essentially P4 P no matter how we dress it up. They do not want flowers and roses. They want Visa and unless we can control the Visa, we can end up penniless in SEAsia, with no exit hope.I believe CM has advised on many of these issues. Possibly he can give you a personal custom tailored road map.

BrainDrain
09-11-18, 02:48
http://www.pchrd.dost.gov.ph/index.php/news/library-health-news/4538-is-executive-check-up-a-waste-of-money

The above is a Pinoy government site telling us mega check ups are a waste of cash. The Dept of Science and Technology link quotes an article that originally appeared in the Manila Bulletin. Neither sources are where I want to get health advice.

The "executive health" checks as sold in Phils are probably an overkill. As an expat whatelse can you do?

If you ae looking for excellent health care, then maybe Ph is not for you.

Of course, we all know that a happy heart being cared for by a beautiful Filipina has to be a good indicator of good health.

GoodEnough
09-11-18, 03:05
http://www.pchrd.dost.gov.ph/index.php/news/library-health-news/4538-is-executive-check-up-a-waste-of-money

The above is a Pinoy government site telling us mega check ups are a waste of cash. I have to get some serious, specialised medical tests and work done though it may already be too late. Is the Philippines a good place for that? I've been to the Pamapnga hospital getting the pox removed but this is not sexual and not run of the mill.
I do not think there's anywhere in the country that would provide the same quality of medical services as Bumrungrad in Thailand or any of the big hospitals in Singapore. However the only two medical centers in which I would have any confidence at all for specialized testing here would be St. Lukes in BGC and Makati Med.

GE.

Wicked Roger
09-11-18, 07:43
I do not think there's anywhere in the country that would provide the same quality of medical services as Bumrungrad in Thailand or any of the big hospitals in Singapore. However the only two medical centers in which I would have any confidence at all for specialized testing here would be St. Lukes in BGC and Makati Med.

GE.The other one I trust is Chong Hua in Cebu. Very good, friends used for all sorts of nasties and all had great treatment.

Red Kilt
09-11-18, 13:36
<SNIP> the only two medical centers in which I would have any confidence at all for specialized testing here would be St. Lukes in BGC and Makati Med.
I would agree with this assessment by GE as these are the hospitals most often recommended by the expat community. However, I would add The Medical City (TMC). I have had personal experience with TMC (on 2 previous occasions in the past 4 years), and my experience was very positive. The main healthcare complex is located along Ortigas Avenue in Pasig City, Metro Manila, with provincial hospitals situated in Clark, Iloilo, Laguna, and Pangasinan.

As a resident here I have carefully researched the available health care close to my residence in the event of any unexpected emergency arising for me. The TMC will be my personal destination.

Note that private medical insurance is essential to cover visits to any of these 3 hospitals as they charge the proverbial "arm and a leg".

PedroMorales
09-11-18, 13:53
Two useful posts here. I did a quick cross check of some prices. A brother of mine needs knee replacement (professional soccer player). I recommended Bumrumgrad, introduced him to ordinary guys who got it done, he knows of a wizard in Germany the top footballers would go to (no one else can afford it) and Florida is great because of ex Army medics and OAPs. In all of those, there is a risk something will go wrong and more money (not an issue) means better service. But he still won't take the risk.

I'll chew this over but maybe I can't take the risk either, but thanks.


I would agree with this assessment by GE as these are the hospitals most often recommended by the expat community. However, I would add The Medical City (TMC). I have had personal experience with TMC (on 2 previous occasions in the past 4 years), and my experience was very positive. The main healthcare complex is located along Ortigas Avenue in Pasig City, Metro Manila, with provincial hospitals situated in Clark, Iloilo, Laguna, and Pangasinan.

As a resident here I have carefully researched the available health care close to my residence in the event of any unexpected emergency arising for me. The TMC will be my personal destination.

Note that private medical insurance is essential to cover visits to any of these 3 hospitals as they charge the proverbial "arm and a leg".
I do not think there's anywhere in the country that would provide the same quality of medical services as Bumrungrad in Thailand or any of the big hospitals in Singapore. However the only two medical centers in which I would have any confidence at all for specialized testing here would be St. Lukes in BGC and Makati Med.

GE.

BrainDrain
09-12-18, 01:11
I would agree with this assessment by GE as these are the hospitals most often recommended by the expat community. However, I would add The Medical City (TMC). I have had personal experience with TMC (on 2 previous occasions in the past 4 years), and my experience was very positive. The main healthcare complex is located along Ortigas Avenue in Pasig City, Metro Manila, with provincial hospitals situated in Clark, Iloilo, Laguna, and Pangasinan..Another vote for TMC at least the Clark location where I have visited. They actually seem to have some systems. The Doctors are still independent within the complex.

Member #4611
09-12-18, 02:12
Two useful posts here. I did a quick cross check of some prices. A brother of mine needs knee replacement (professional soccer player). I recommended Bumrumgrad, introduced him to ordinary guys who got it done, he knows of a wizard in Germany the top footballers would go to (no one else can afford it) and Florida is great because of ex Army medics and OAPs. In all of those, there is a risk something will go wrong and more money (not an issue) means better service. But he still won't take the risk.

I'll chew this over but maybe I can't take the risk either, but thanks.Suggest also Bangkok Hospital which has a FIFA accredited facility. Had great surgery (if that is possible!) there! Not sure how prices compare with Bumrungrad. But great facilities and more than half the price of Singapore.

FK.

GoodEnough
09-12-18, 04:07
Two useful posts here. I did a quick cross check of some prices. A brother of mine needs knee replacement (professional soccer player). I recommended Bumrumgrad, introduced him to ordinary guys who got it done, he knows of a wizard in Germany the top footballers would go to (no one else can afford it) and Florida is great because of ex Army medics and OAPs. In all of those, there is a risk something will go wrong and more money (not an issue) means better service. But he still won't take the risk.

I'll chew this over but maybe I can't take the risk either, but thanks.It might be inappropriate to post this here, but I'll take a shot nonetheless. About a decade ago, I had a potentially life-threatening orthopedic problem that involved a deep bone infection. I simply could not find anyone here to treat it, or for that matter, even diagnose it correctly. Therefore, I went to Mount Elizabeth Hospital in Singapore. My orthopedist, who was trained in Singapore and did his post-doc training at the Mayo Clinic, took about 5 minutes to diagnose the problem. He then sent me to his friend who specialized in infectious disease. She too had trained in Singapore and had done her post-doc at one of the big Harvard hospitals. Mount Elizabeth was, hands down, the finest medical institution with which I've ever had any experience, and my problem was resolved successfully at a cost that, while steep, was probably about 40% of what it would have cost in the US. I mention this only because one of the docs in the same practice as the orthopod who took care of me specialized in knee replacements, and I'the have no hesitation in going to him for the procedure.

GE.

Goferring
09-12-18, 07:29
I simply could not find anyone here to treat it, or for that matter, even diagnose it correctly. Therefore, I went to Mount Elizabeth Hospital in Singapore.

GE.+1 for Mount Elizabeth. I've never had them treat a life threatening illness but several issues that have stumped doctors in other Asian clinics.

The place is a production line and you move swiftly between specialists until diagnosed correctly and treated.

Red Kilt
09-12-18, 07:50
Mount Elizabeth was, hands down, the finest medical institution with which I've ever had any experience, and my problem was resolved successfully Thanks for the additional info GE.

As I move into the ageing period when bits and pieces will start to malfunction I am covering all bases and building a pool of medical professionals with whom I can consult if (when) the need arises. Whilst TMC will be my first port of call, it's good to know about Mt Elizabeth in SIN and I can add that to my list.

PedroMorales
09-12-18, 09:09
....I simply could not find anyone here to treat it, or for that matter, even diagnose it correctly........ orthopod who took care of me specialized in knee replacements, and I'the have no hesitation in going to him for the procedure.GE.Thanks but you nail the two risks here. I am afraid of a mis / non diagnosis / prognosis and he is afraid of a failed operation, no matter how minimised the risk. He will Hamlet on (he has to get his knees changed, no ifs but will not). I'll mull matters.

Montecristo
09-18-18, 10:54
I promise a report in the end, but for now, and since I was unable to see them all answered through Rtff, I have some questions I would like to put.

- After Angeles I will go to some islands for some days, I still have not decided, Palawan top choice of the moment, but advices will be welcomed. My question is, an Angeles girls will be easy to convince to such a trip without demanding absurd values? Go to a beautiful Island, with beaches would seem the dream of many girls all over the world, but these girls are at home, they probably don't value this too much.

Perhaps I simply go alone and try my luck in the Islands.

- Laptop security, in Angeles most hotels have safes big enough to keep the laptop safe, but if you go to a small place in a remote islands those kind of services will not be available, despite that perhaps in those places thiefs are less common and maybe the bringing the laptop is not such a risk. An opinion would be welcomed.

In very small places and planning to go to a beach and swim even the question where I keep money and documents will be an issue.

Thanks in advance.

Dg8787
09-18-18, 11:57
I promise a report in the end, but for now, and since I was unable to see them all answered through Rtff, I have some questions I would like to put.

- After Angeles I will go to some islands for some days, I still have not decided, Palawan top choice of the moment, but advices will be welcomed. My question is, an Angeles girls will be easy to convince to such a trip without demanding absurd values? Go to a beautiful Island, with beaches would seem the dream of many girls all over the world, but these girls are at home, they probably don't value this too much.

Perhaps I simply go alone and try my luck in the Islands.

- Laptop security, in Angeles most hotels have safes big enough to keep the laptop safe, but if you go to a small place in a remote islands those kind of services will not be available, despite that perhaps in those places thiefs are less common and maybe the bringing the laptop is not such a risk. An opinion would be welcomed.

In very small places and planning to go to a beach and swim even the question where I keep money and documents will be an issue.

Thanks in advance.Palawan is probably your best bet at the moment.

It may be hard to understand that girls and their family need to eat. If it wasn't for the need to survive there wouldn't be any pnp girls around. The girls are there to make money to survive. The girls are there to make money to survive. They would love to travel and go on vacation but without money their family would starve.

For your sake and her's get an agreement up front for her services. You will be providing for meals and all incidental expenses.

I would assume most places will have a safe in the room unless you are in some cheap ass hotel. I wouldn’t carry with me more than I am willing to lose.

Btw, how was your travel to Phil? Anything to report so far?

Goferring
09-18-18, 13:03
For your sake and her's get an agreement up front for her services. You will be providing for meals and all incidental expenses.If the girl is out of a bar, rather than an online find, include if a bar fine is payable in the discussion. If it's just a couple of days, it's likely easier just to continue paying it. For a week or more, the girl will probably tell the bar that she is just going back to the Province so no BF will be payable but she will still require payment for her services. Note that she may need to return to the bar for a day or two between being repeatedly barfined by you and "urgently" needing to return home.

Some other things you may want to consider when taking someone away LLT:


Hi guys,

Just a post on a trip I am having to highlight some of the risks and rewards of taking a multi day / week trip with a BG.


OK, so the trip above is now finished. Her attitude improved over the second week but still wasn't all that I had hoped for.

Mr Enternational
09-18-18, 13:25
- After Angeles I will go to some islands for some days, I still have not decided, Palawan top choice of the moment, but advices will be welcomed. My question is, an Angeles girls will be easy to convince to such a trip without demanding absurd values?I would think it pretty difficult to meet some random hooker that you want to spend time with like that. I would suggest checking out some dating sites and finding a normal chick that you can get to know beforehand that would like to take the trip with you.

Charm City Dave
09-18-18, 16:27
Note that private medical insurance is essential to cover visits to any of these 3 hospitals as they charge the proverbial "arm and a leg".I'm preparing to decamp from my US headquarters and spend a few years (perhaps more) moving around Asia. I'm not sure if I'm going to home base anywhere, but will certainly travel between Thailand, Indonesia and PI for the first 6 months to a year. I have been researching expat insurance. I want something (at least for now) that will cover me in any hospital in SEA and for short periods when I return to the US.

Cigna Global Silver seem the best for hospital coverage with a $235 a month premium for $1,000,000 annual coverage ($1,500 deductible). They offer an outpatient add on for $155 a month but I'm thinking give the cost of care in SEA I'd just self insure for that. Any experiences with Cigna or other options I should consider? I suspect all the protections I no have with insurance in the US that protect me from them denying claims won't exist and the is my biggest worry. If something expensive happens, they will find an excuse to decline.

EihTooms
09-18-18, 17:29
I'm preparing to decamp from my US headquarters and spend a few years (perhaps more) moving around Asia. I'm not sure if I'm going to home base anywhere, but will certainly travel between Thailand, Indonesia and PI for the first 6 months to a year. I have been researching expat insurance. I want something (at least for now) that will cover me in any hospital in SEA and for short periods when I return to the US.

Cigna Global Silver seem the best for hospital coverage with a $235 a month premium for $1,000,000 annual coverage ($1,500 deductible). They offer an outpatient add on for $155 a month but I'm thinking give the cost of care in SEA I'd just self insure for that. Any experiences with Cigna or other options I should consider? I suspect all the protections I no have with insurance in the US that protect me from them denying claims won't exist and the is my biggest worry. If something expensive happens, they will find an excuse to decline.Since you mentioned Thailand, you might check out a site and a monthly newsletter at Pattaya City Expats Club. Look for the article or ad for expat insurance. The "club" part of it is simply a way for members of that club to get a group rate on their expat health insurance. You are never required to attend meetings or anything like that. LOL. I doubt you even have to show up in person to set up the insurance plan since the fellow administering it for the group will email all the necessary paperwork. Maybe there is a 400 baht per year membership fee. I have forgotten. Anyway, the insurance policies you can sign up for the group rate through them are AXA, Pacific Cross and maybe some others. Not sure about the one you mentioned though. I haven't actually read one of those monthly newsletters in a long time.

I have had a policy with AXA and am now changing over to Pacific Cross through that "club". Like you, I did not opt for the OPD (Out Patient Department) coverage since I am prepared to be self insured (pay for it myself) when it comes to just going to a doctor to see about a sore throat or an upset stomach. It is the hospitalization I want to cover. I am 65 years old and my Value Plan B coverage with Pacific Cross as offered to members of that "club" costs less than $100 USD per month. 1,000,000 baht per year in hospitalization. I can renew it until age 90 and can continue to renew it after that under some circumstances.

Just passing that along for you to check out and compare. I just wanted to be covered for a few biggies and the policy I had with AXA and will have with Pacific Cross seems to be about right. Haven't actually had to use it over these past 6 years though.

BTW, the coverage is good in most Asian and other countries for the first 90 days of your stay while traveling in each country. But I don't think it works in the USA. I think finding one that will work everywhere in the world including the USA is going to be tricky. But I have not really shopped around all that much.

Mr Enternational
09-18-18, 18:51
Since you mentioned Thailand, you might check out a site and a monthly newsletter at Pattaya City Expats Club. Look for the article or ad for expat insurance. The "club" part of it is simply a way for members of that club to get a group rate on their expat health insurance. You are never required to attend meetings or anything like that. LOL. I doubt you even have to show up in person to set up the insurance plan since the fellow administering it for the group will email all the necessary paperwork. Maybe there is a 400 baht per year membership fee. I got a card years ago so that I could get the discounts around town. I just had to go to the Mercure Hotel behind The Avenue on a Sunday morning at 8 am to sign up. The lifetime membership fee was 400 baht. I haven't been back since, but I don't know if anyone (restaurants) still gives us discounts. I need to check the we site to find out. Hell, I don't even know what the website is!

BrainDrain
09-18-18, 23:33
- After Angeles I will go to some islands for some days, I still have not decided, Palawan top choice of the moment, but advices will be welcomed. My question is, an Angeles girls will be easy to convince to such a trip without demanding absurd values? Go to a beautiful Island, with beaches would seem the dream of many girls all over the world, but these girls are at home, they probably don't value this too much.
My three Philippines beach holidays I have taken girls from AC. For me, it's nicer going off on a holiday together with someone I like. In each case I am going with a girl I've met at least twice before. I choose a girl that can be neutral and understands there is no relationship. As I have known the girls before they know that sex is expected. Two of the girls had bar jobs were they just took extended leave. The first time I took a girl for two weeks I sent her money for clothes, preparations and transport P10 k. During the time away obviously I paid for everything and when she left I gave her another P10 k. Another was a sponsored student who was happy to skip some classes.


- Laptop security, in Angeles most hotels have safes big enough to keep the laptop safe, but if you go to a small place in a remote islands those kind of services will not be available, despite that perhaps in those places thiefs are less common and maybe the bringing the laptop is not such a risk. An opinion would be welcomed.

In very small places and planning to go to a beach and swim even the question where I keep money and documents will be an issue.Well in my experience I adopt an attitude of only carry what I can afford to lose. Laptop physical good and the data should be stored in the cloud, password protections etc. Passports although inconvenient can be replaced. Money don't carry too much and certainly don't flash the cash. I carry different cash access methods and store cash in different locations so I don't lose everything. I have scans of documents in my cloud storage.

Enjoy your travels.

Kabul Guy
09-19-18, 00:29
Since you mentioned Thailand, you might check out a site and a monthly newsletter at Pattaya City Expats Club. Look for the article or ad for expat insurance. The "club" part of it is simply a way for members of that club to get a group rate on their expat health insurance......Can we get club rates based on our ISG Club membership?

EihTooms
09-19-18, 00:48
I got a card years ago so that I could get the discounts around town. I just had to go to the Mercure Hotel behind The Avenue on a Sunday morning at 8 am to sign up. The lifetime membership fee was 400 baht. I haven't been back since, but I don't know if anyone (restaurants) still gives us discounts. I need to check the we site to find out. Hell, I don't even know what the website is!Don't you still get the monthly Pattaya City Expats Club newsletter emailed to you? I've been getting it for years. Since before I moved to Thailand. But rarely read it anymore. Maybe you didn't sign up for it in the beginning. I don't think I can post the link but their website came up first when I put in a Google Search with that name.

EihTooms
09-19-18, 00:50
Can we get club rates based on our ISG Club membership?Haha. Might be able to if we choose someone of good moral character to administer and set up the plans. Hmmm.

Sammon
09-19-18, 01:27
I promise a report in the end, but for now, and since I was unable to see them all answered through Rtff, I have some questions I would like to put.

- After Angeles I will go to some islands for some days, I still have not decided, Palawan top choice of the moment, but advices will be welcomed. My question is, an Angeles girls will be easy to convince to such a trip without demanding absurd values? Go to a beautiful Island, with beaches would seem the dream of many girls all over the world, but these girls are at home, they probably don't value this too much.

Perhaps I simply go alone and try my luck in the Islands.

In very small places and planning to go to a beach and swim even the question where I keep money and documents will be an issue.

Thanks in advance.Taking a girl on vacation is not all that cracked up to be. Unless you live in Philippines and have a long time GF it is a waste of time. Unlike western girlfriends Phillipine girls do not enjoy much of beach or sightseeing. Definitely not the girls who open their legs for money. I have taken few. Never felt closeness comparated to my American girlfriends who I took all over the world and had great fun.

I think it comes from their basic insecurity in life which puts a break in their enjoyment. Yes, they are great in bed. In spite of Philippines is surrounded by water everywhere girls do not know swimming. Little things on the beach and water scares them. They are not into enjoying the beach daytime and enjoying the bars and nightlife at night. I have taken Thai girls who are better company. As per philippine girls they are mostly homebodies. They would rather stay in the hotel Room, fuck and watch movies. Also girls say they do not want to get dark staying on the beach.

Knowing all these if you want to take a girl for beach vacation go ahead. Like others suggested negotiate first. Their first priority is money.

I have not gone alone to any of the vacation places. But reading through the reports the picking is slim at best.

Kabul Guy
09-19-18, 01:46
Taking a girl on vacation is not all that cracked up to be. Unless you live in Philippines and have a long time GF it is a waste of time. Unlike western girlfriends Phillipine girls do not enjoy much of beach or sightseeing. Definitely not the girls who open their legs for money. I have taken few. Never felt closeness comparated to my American girlfriends who I took all over the world and had great fun.

....

I have not gone alone to any of the vacation places. But reading through the reports the picking is slim at best.I have had better luck on vacation girls through SA than the other sites. Perhaps it is that these girls are looking for something more long term than PL, Tinder etc. So they are willing to provide more of a GFE experience or perhaps just the luck of the draw.

Mr Enternational
09-19-18, 02:50
Taking a girl on vacation is not all that cracked up to be. Unless you live in Philippines and have a long time GF it is a waste of time. Unlike western girlfriends Phillipine girls do not enjoy much of beach or sightseeing. Definitely not the girls who open their legs for money. I have taken few. Never felt closeness comparated to my American girlfriends who I took all over the world and had great fun.

I think it comes from their basic insecurity in life which puts a break in their enjoyment. Yes, they are great in bed. In spite of Philippines is surrounded by water everywhere girls do not know swimming. Little things on the beach and water scares them. They are not into enjoying the beach daytime and enjoying the bars and nightlife at night. I have taken Thai girls who are better company. As per philippine girls they are mostly homebodies. They would rather stay in the hotel Room, fuck and watch movies. Also girls say they do not want to get dark staying on the beach.

Knowing all these if you want to take a girl for beach vacation go ahead. Like others suggested negotiate first. Their first priority is money.

I have not gone alone to any of the vacation places. But reading through the reports the picking is slim at best.Like you said, this must only pertain to chicks that you pay. Because I have been on trips with several normal chicks and they love it. (That is why I told him to look for a chick on a dating site.) Afterwards they come with a list of places that they want me to take them. Only thing for me is it gives me a headache trying to plan out all that shit. You have to take planes, taxis, buses, and boats to the places that I want to go scuba diving. My next trip will be with the college professor that I am seeing. I already told her that she would have to plan it out.

All the chicks that I go with seem to know how to swim. When they come on the dive boat they do snorkeling while I am under. If they don't come out with me then they like to go island hop to check out the beaches, and they already have the tourist stuff that we will do together planned. At one resort in Cebu it was hell to talk my girl into using the waterslide at the pool. Then when she finally gave in, I could not pull her away from it after she saw how much fun it was. When I am being lazy and wanting to stay in the room, they are the ones making me get up and out.

ImAGuy
09-19-18, 04:39
Taking a girl on vacation is not all that cracked up to be. Unless you live in Philippines and have a long time GF it is a waste of time. Unlike western girlfriends Phillipine girls do not enjoy much of beach or sightseeing. Definitely not the girls who open their legs for money. I have taken few. Never felt closeness comparated to my American girlfriends who I took all over the world and had great fun.

I think it comes from their basic insecurity in life which puts a break in their enjoyment. Yes, they are great in bed. In spite of Philippines is surrounded by water everywhere girls do not know swimming. Little things on the beach and water scares them. They are not into enjoying the beach daytime and enjoying the bars and nightlife at night. I have taken Thai girls who are better company. As per philippine girls they are mostly homebodies. They would rather stay in the hotel Room, fuck and watch movies. Also girls say they do not want to get dark staying on the beach.

Knowing all these if you want to take a girl for beach vacation go ahead. Like others suggested negotiate first. Their first priority is money.

I have not gone alone to any of the vacation places. But reading through the reports the picking is slim at best.There are a lot of guys on here with questionable claims, but this has to be the worst. Filipinas don't enjoy traveling. Have you ever lived in this country?

BrainDrain
09-19-18, 05:05
There are a lot of guys on here with questionable claims, but this has to be the worst. Filipinas don't enjoy traveling. Have you ever lived in this country?To be fair it is his apparent experience and for him it didn't work out.

WestCoast1
09-19-18, 06:57
There are a lot of guys on here with questionable claims, but this has to be the worst. Filipinas don't enjoy traveling. Have you ever lived in this country?Let me defend Sammon here a bit. I think its questionable taking a girl you don't know well for traveling for more than about 2 days. A number of gents have written on the board over the years running into problems. Yes of course pinay enjoy traveling, but not in all circumstances. You want to take her away for a week's fun / sun / water fun at a resort might turn bad. You find (even after many online conversations) that you don't know this girl well, and she does not know you. She is fine with an afternoon at the beach, but if she doesn't swim, then getting into the water might be out. You're thinking 6 days of this, she's thinking 1 afternoon. You might find that she's wildly into her cell phone, FB, and youtube (not so much you). Better hope the Internet connection is not slow as she will have nothing to do; she will be happy part of the trip and bored a good chunk. Better a shorter stay with her on your first trip. Have had traveling vacay's with chicas turn out well, others not so well. I now never travel with a girl I haven't spent a good chunk of time with, for I need to have a good conversational relationship with her in person (not calculable with online chat only; people are different in person than they are online).

Soapy Smith
09-19-18, 07:22
Can we get club rates based on our ISG Club membership?KG for President. Oops. He's Canadian and Canada has a Parliament and Prime Minister.

Kabul Guy
09-19-18, 07:53
KG for President. Oops. He's Canadian and Canada has a Parliament and Prime Minister.I think the following just about disqualifies any one here from being club president.


Haha. Might be able to if we choose someone of good moral character to administer and set up the plans. Hmmm.

Red Kilt
09-19-18, 11:45
There are a lot of guys on here with questionable claims, but this has to be the worst. Filipinas don't enjoy traveling. I A G. That is simply not true, as validated by evidence from the Phils Dept of Tourism. Filipinos LOVE to travel.

I was a speaker recently at a "roundtable" session and the DOT representative said that on last year's data 74% of hotel rooms across the Philippines were booked by locals. He indicated that it is a myth that the Phils depends on international visitors for room occupancies.

Of course, there are many other variables in it. International visitors spend a lot more per head, especially since Filipinos tend to fit many more guests into a room etc.

If you have travelled around the Philippines as I do, you will observe that the majority of guests at breakfast are always filipino families. I was dumbfounded when I passed through the Peninsula Hotel lobby last Friday at midday in Makati and it was literally packed with filipinos. Barely a foreigner to be seen.

I was in Okada Resort on last Sunday evening for dinner (5 star casino complex in Paranaque) and it was packed with pinoy families going through security. The obvious reason was that they were there to see the Musical LightShow starting at 6 pm but it was still a shock for me to see so many middle-class people in such a salubrious place.

The Philippines demographic is changing as more and more people are getting better incomes (through call centers for example). The increased FOREX rate for pesos (to the USD) from OFW remittances has also allowed a windfall for many families.

Kabul Guy
09-19-18, 12:09
I A G. That is simply not true, as validated by evidence from the Phils Dept of Tourism. Filipinos LOVE to travel.

I was a speaker recently at a "roundtable" session and the DOT representative said that on last year's data 74% of hotel rooms across the Philippines were booked by locals. He indicated that it is a myth that the Phils depends on international visitors for room occupancies.

.....That has been my observation as well. Now I don't stay at the real high end 5 star places but I am often the only foreigner at breakfast in many of the places I've stayed. If there is another foreigner he is a monger with a pina at his side, just like me.

Every girl I have discussed traveling with was all for it, no hesitation just eagerness to go as long as work and family allowed for it to happen. Every bus trip I was the only foreigner and most airplane rides in country are full of locals not foreigners. Look around the airport next time you are on a local trip, the place will not be overrun with foreigners.

I think that the 74% number would be higher except that locals will stay with family or friends and / or pack more people into a hotel room than foreigners will. Foreigners also will travel singly or in pairs while here whole families will travel together.

Goferring
09-24-18, 01:32
Is it possible to CC other threads so posts and replies appear in both without having two disconnected comment trails?

I've written and read a few that are relevant to multiple threads eg using chat rooms in Cebu, AC vs Pattaya, travel PI to LOS etc.

GoodEnough
09-24-18, 04:27
The Philippines demographic is changing as more and more people are getting better incomes (through call centers for example). The increased FOREX rate for pesos (to the USD) from OFW remittances has also allowed a windfall for many families.Bill Maher has a segment on his show called "I can't prove it but I know it's true," and this applies to the point RK makes above with which I concur. The demographic has changed, and it's changing further. My recent internal flights have been 98% occupied by Filipinos, as was the case in the hotels in which I've stayed recently. Even locally, I've noticed that more and more Filipinos constitute the majority of customers at the higher end restaurants in Davao. I cannot substantiate this with statistics, and I've seen no recent analyses of rising incomes, but I infer that it's true based on my own observations, which echo those of RK and KG.

GE.

Red Kilt
09-24-18, 09:35
This is unbelievable.

https://ph.news.yahoo.com/dpwh-close-estrella-bridge-010010313.html

It means an additional 100,000 vehicles return to EDSA while bridge is replaced.

Commuters from AC to Manila and then to airport be warned.

Kabul Guy
09-24-18, 09:55
Now you might get 15% of all tourism is sex tourism depending on how you define sex tourism and what costs you allocate to sex tourism but I think that even that would be a bit of a stretch. 15% of 12% of the GDP works out to about 1. 8%. If we assume that a sex worker makes 4 times the average per capita GDP then we would get somewhere around (100 milliuon x 15% x 12% /4) 450,000 sex workers in the economy. Best guesses is less than 500,000 full time sex workers in the Philippines, but those serve locals as well as foreigners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Philippines

I was doing some searches on this a while ago and I came across one web site that defined sex tourism as any time a tourist had sex with someone other than his spouse. (yes even if a unmarried couple traveled together by this definition if they had sex on the trip than that was sex tourism.) This site also advocated castration for all sex tourists. Other sites defined sex tourism as trips with the sole purpose of engaging in sex with multiple partners.

We all know that the reality is somewhere in between. We travel to have a lot of varied experiences. We go to the beach, go scuba diving, tour different places and then have sex with a local. Do you charge diving costs to it being a sex tourism trip? What if your intent was to go diving and you just got lucky with a local who sweetly asked for "taxi money" in the morning? Is the whole cost of the trip to be allocated to sex tourism or just the taxi money?

I don't think you would ever get everyone to agree on an objective definition of what constituted sex tourism and in the case of trips for sightseeing and sex, what should be the allocation of costs between the two types of travel.

Even if you got general agreement on definitions, I doubt if you would ever get good data from the field. If someone asked me at the airport was I here on a sex tourism trip. I'the so no.

The best you could ever do would be to make an educated guess as to what the foreign / local sex trade was worth. You could count the people at places like Burgos Street, estimate how often a girl took a guy back to a room, average BF and tip amounts and then look at the number of local hotels, count how many guys bring girls back etc. And then basically take a wild ass guess at extrapolating the total to include AC, ESDA and other places.

Kabul Guy
09-24-18, 09:57
This is unbelievable.

https://ph.news.yahoo.com/dpwh-close-estrella-bridge-010010313.html

It means an additional 100,000 vehicles return to EDSA while bridge is replaced.

Commuters from AC to Manila and then to airport be warned.I can confirm that it is closed, I was by there today. I had to detour to the Makati Street Bridge.

Marlboro Red
09-24-18, 14:32
Any suggestion on a quick weekend away from Manila for a bit of diving and relaxing with a bit of P2 P on the side? I am thinking of going to Coron or Cebu?

GoodEnough
09-24-18, 16:21
This is unbelievable.

https://ph.news.yahoo.com/dpwh-close-estrella-bridge-010010313.html

It means an additional 100,000 vehicles return to EDSA while bridge is replaced.

Commuters from AC to Manila and then to airport be warned.I don't know what the normal usable life of a bridge is, but it sure ain't 9 years. The construction I'm guessing was crap, and now they're afraid of a serious mishap.

The only good news is that it's going to be built with Chinese money, so that means it's likely that a Chinese firm will build it, which also means it likely will be finished a lot more quickly than if DPWH was in charge.

GE.

Goferring
09-25-18, 03:17
Any suggestion on a quick weekend away from Manila for a bit of diving and relaxing with a bit of P2 P on the side? I am thinking of going to Coron or Cebu?Coron is good diving but BYO GFE.

Cebu had everything but I wouldn't call it quiet.

Sabang is only 2 hrs from Manila and might fit your needs.

Or Subic.

NewImage
09-25-18, 03:41
Any suggestion on a quick weekend away from Manila for a bit of diving and relaxing with a bit of P2 P on the side? I am thinking of going to Coron or Cebu?No brainer.

Kabul Guy
09-25-18, 05:00
I don't know what the normal usable life of a bridge is, but it sure ain't 9 years. The construction I'm guessing was crap, and now they're afraid of a serious mishap.

....Typical design life span of a bridge is 50 years but they can last a lot longer than that if maintained. A lot of bridges are replaced because the traffic conditions change and they are undersized for the new demands. Also lack of maintenance or a disaster (accident or natural) can shorten a bridge's lifespan significantly.

The article that RK references says that it is due to the bridge being undersized for current traffic demands, it will expand from a 2 lane to a 4 lane bridge.

I used to walk across this often on my way to and from Mandaluyong City to Abacca Spa so I hope that they put in a proper pedestrian walkway, The old one was two narrow to meet anyone without someone stepping onto the roadway. I liked walking on the left bank of the river since it was more shaded but the right bank has a nice walkway to Makati Ave bridge.

Soapy Smith
09-25-18, 17:10
Typical design life span of a bridge is 50 years but they can last a lot longer than that if maintained.

(snip)

I used to walk across this often on my way to and from Mandaluyong City to Abacca Spa so I hope that they put in a proper pedestrian walkway, But is 50 years a North American / European standard? The comparison may be inappropriate, but I have watched Filipinos constructing a small concrete block building under government contract. The precast blocks were far from uniform in shape, and the workers' standards for mortar left numerous very large gaps among the blocks. Eventually the gaps were concealed by a stucco covering inside and out. I don't recall whether they dropped rebar into any of the vertical columns in the blocks. And if they did, were they overlapped and wired together?

As is often done in the Philippines, mortar was mixed on the ground, since they didn't have a concrete mixer. They mound it up like a pile of mashed potatoes, make a depression in the middle for adding water, and then work it up with a hoe. Workers come by and grab mortar on their mortar boards, and when the mixed up mortar runs low, they add water, sand (or maybe it was some other other kind of aggregate) and dry mix as needed, and work up some more. You have to wonder about what gets mixed in from the ground in addition to mortar dry mix, and (presumably) washed sand. And as to consistent stiffness of the mortar, it's anybody's guess.

What I am getting at is the question of construction quality standards. Presumably ready mix is used for roads and bridges, but under what quality standards? Slump tests? Rust-resistant coatings on ironwork? Inspection of materials and workmanship? Etc.

Pedestrian walkway? Are you holding your breath?

Kabul Guy
09-25-18, 23:14
But is 50 years a North American / European standard? ......

What I am getting at is the question of construction quality standards. Presumably ready mix is used for roads and bridges, but under what quality standards? Slump tests? Rust-resistant coatings on ironwork? Inspection of materials and workmanship? Etc.

Pedestrian walkway? Are you holding your breath?I have worked with Filipino engineers in Afghanistan on major construction projects. They are as good if not better than a lot of North American engineers and follow north american construction standards completely. One friend is a structural designer and she is now working on the design of some major projects to be constructed in the USA.

They are capable of following North American / European construction standards. I believe that they generally do on major projects that are inspected and controlled. Small buildings are your local guys just trying to make a buck with poor workmanship standards, just like I see at home in a lot of residential construction where the inspection is not that stringent.

I was staying a few days in an Airbnb that looked down on a high rise just starting construction, I say work that looked from a distance to be well organized and appeared to be progressing well. I did see field tests being done on the mixer trucks as they came into deliver concrete. There were inspection and delivery tags on the rebar assemblies as they were delivered. Overall it looked like a normal major construction project that we would see back home.

Just as you cannot extrapolate the shoddy workmanship and failure to follow design standards at home in the residential / small commercial market, you cannot make the same extrapolations here from small construction to major projects. There will be some size threshold that once exceeded the inspection and quality control will become much stricter and they will generally follow proper procedures, just as they will in NA / Europe. I would guess that that threshold is much lower in NA / Europe than here though and would also extend outside the major cities more than here.

GoodEnough
09-25-18, 23:32
I have worked with Filipino engineers in Afghanistan on major construction projects. They are as good if not better than a lot of North American engineers and follow north american construction standards completely. One friend is a structural designer and she is now working on the design of some major projects to be constructed in the USA.

They are capable of following North American / European construction standards. I believe that they generally do on major projects that are inspected and controlled. Small buildings are your local guys just trying to make a buck with poor workmanship standards, just like I see at home in a lot of residential construction where the inspection is not that stringent.

I was staying a few days in an Airbnb that looked down on a high rise just starting construction, I say work that looked from a distance to be well organized and appeared to be progressing well. I did see field tests being done on the mixer trucks as they came into deliver concrete. There were inspection and delivery tags on the rebar assemblies as they were delivered. Overall it looked like a normal major construction project that we would see back home.

Just as you cannot extrapolate the shoddy workmanship and failure to follow design standards at home in the residential / small commercial market, you cannot make the same extrapolations here from small construction to major projects. There will be some size threshold that once exceeded the inspection and quality control will become much stricter and they will generally follow proper procedures, just as they will in NA / Europe. I would guess that that threshold is much lower in NA / Europe than here though and would also extend outside the major cities more than here.I've worked with engineers here for years on various development projects and I don't dispute what KG said regarding the quality of the engineering. I have learned though that it's important to differentiate between construction projects, whether large or small, financed (and overseen) by private developers and development agencies, and projects financed and implemented by DPWH or other government agencies. In the case of the former, when not only construction standards, but also the flow of money is controlled directly by non-government entities, the quality of works is typically fine: appropriate quantities and qualities of materials are used, and projects are built to spec. In the case of government financed / supervised works however, the outcomes can be quite different. In many such cases, by the time politicians have received their cuts up and down the line, there's simply not enough money to build to spec and corners start being cut. In such cases (at least with roads) quality is always sacrificed, at least in my experience. So the problem is not one of lack of engineering talent or lack of appropriate construction standards, but one of corruption.

GE.

PedroMorales
09-25-18, 23:45
Golden Gate Bridge opened May 27,1937. Sydney Harbour Bridge opened on 19 March 1932. Brooklyn Bridge opened on May 24,1883. London's Tower Bridge opened on 30 June 1894. New York's George Washington Bridge is the busiest bridge in the world. It was opened on October 24 1931. Thew world famous Howrah Bridge in Bengal, West India, was opened on February 3, 1943.

Though the Ponte Morandi was opened in Genoa, Italy on 4 September 1967, the bridge partially collapsed on 14 August 2018, killing 43 people. Sub-standard materials supplied by the Mafia, who would find the Philippines and their bridges too corrupt for them, are the suspected culprits.

If you want standards, avoid the Philippines (and Italy).

Soapy Smith
09-27-18, 20:39
So the problem is not one of lack of engineering talent or lack of appropriate construction standards, but one of corruption.GE.This was my thought, and it might apply to the bridge in question for which RK posted the link. PM seems to see the same issue as GE.

In addition to money being taken off the top by corrupt government officials, there may be further problems introduced if private sector contractors pay off the government inspectors to look the other way.

BrainDrain
09-27-18, 23:22
This was my thought, and it might apply to the bridge in question for which RK posted the link. PM seems to see the same issue as GE.

In addition to money being taken off the top by corrupt government officials, there may be further problems introduced if private sector contractors pay off the government inspectors to look the other way.SO basically they will destroy this bridge and replace it with an equally poor engineering job which will last for another 10 years.

Surely it would be better to accept that the various introduction fees need to be paid. This government workers and officials are not compensated through a decent wage so they have become accustomed to the kickbacks.

They should budget +20% now for a bridge that will last 100 years instead of paying for a new one every 10 years.

Bd.

Kabul Guy
09-28-18, 01:32
... So the problem is not one of lack of engineering talent or lack of appropriate construction standards, but one of corruption.

GE.That is a problem here but I read the articles linked by RK as this particular bridge is undersized. It is only one lane each way and will be replaced by a bridge two lanes each way which on the north bound traffic (Makati to Mandaulyong) matches the feeder roads. On the other side it feeds into a two lane road so that will simply shift the bottle neck north. (This can be expanded but a couple small buildings will have to come down.).

This appears that the planning inpits used did not result in an accurate forecast of eventual traffic, not an uncommon problem anywhere since better roads induces more traffic and this additional traffic is difficult to predict or the models used may not have accounted for the economic gains here in the last decade that create more private vehicle traffic and less public transport.

Red Kilt
09-28-18, 04:03
This was my thought, and it might apply to the bridge in question for which RK posted the link. PM seems to see the same issue as GE.
Further to the original post, the closure of the bridge has been delayed until January 2019 because of the approaching Christmas period when the volume of traffic on the roads around that time makes them become impassable (and impossible).

Soapy Smith
09-28-18, 14:52
This appears that the planning inpits used did not result in an accurate forecast of eventual traffic, not an uncommon problem anywhere since better roads induces more traffic and this additional traffic is difficult to predict or the models used may not have accounted for the economic gains here in the last decade that create more private vehicle traffic and less public transport.I assume that "inpits" was a misspelling of "inputs. " Alternatively, you may have coined a useful and appropriate new term. Inpits could be used to refer to all the factors or ingredients that go into a planning process in which, as a foregone assumption, the outcome will be even worse than the present situation. Hence the "pit" syllable of the word.

"Wicked problem" is a popular new term out there among some illuminati. It refers to big public problems that are presumably insoluble because, regardless what intervention is taken, some new problem pops up as a result, or some group comes forward claiming that the intervention has created an untenable situation for them. Thus, in theory, wicked problems go on forever. (Personally, I think the idea of wicked problems is a load of crap, but nobody's listening to me.) Your new word, inpit, may be particularly useful in the discussion of wicked problems.

BD and RK seem to have illuminated some of the particular inpits that are inherent in this bridge problem as a wicked problem.

GoodEnough
09-28-18, 15:22
This appears that the planning inpits used did not result in an accurate forecast of eventual traffic, not an uncommon problem anywhere since better roads induces more traffic and this additional traffic is difficult to predict or the models used may not have accounted for the economic gains here in the last decade that create more private vehicle traffic and less public transport.The real problem, at least from my point of view, is the dearth of efficient, modern mass transportation, both in Manila and in the rest of the country. There are no subway systems, for example, nor municipal buses with dedicated (and rigidly enforced) bus lanes, nor are there pull overs for buses or taxis. There's no modern surface light rail. So, the only real means of transport is the poorly-planned, over-utilized urban road system which is stressed to the breaking point. The only solution, and one that will never be implemented in my view, is an effective, inter-linked, system of mass public transport.

GE.

WestCoast1
09-29-18, 02:15
The real problem, at least from my point of view, is the dearth of efficient, modern mass transportation, both in Manila and in the rest of the country. There are no subway systems, for example, nor municipal buses with dedicated (and rigidly enforced) bus lanes, nor are there pull overs for buses or taxis. There's no modern surface light rail. So, the only real means of transport is the poorly-planned, over-utilized urban road system which is stressed to the breaking point. The only solution, and one that will never be implemented in my view, is an effective, inter-linked, system of mass public transport.

GE.Recently sitting at a Manila Starbucks I grabbed a newspaper off the shelf and turned to the op / ed pages in the back of the first section. A lady wrote a good piece about Manila roads. A blurb went similar to this: "A single high rise building of just 12 floors will create about 1000 new jobs. Does anyone consider this in regards to widening the roads to handle the new traffic? Shouldn't the President (or someone in charge) put an immediate halt to building anything that brings more people into the area?" She's right, and one could extend her claim to include condo's and hotels. Her assertion that high rise building should be halted for a period of time is probably logical, but money interests might not allow that.

Golfinho
09-29-18, 04:27
The only solution, and one that will never be implemented in my view, is an effective, inter-linked, system of mass public transport. You mean like the effective, inter-linked, system of mass public transport you have implemented in your home town in america flyoverland?

GoodEnough
09-29-18, 04:44
Recently sitting at a Manila Starbucks I grabbed a newspaper off the shelf and turned to the op / ed pages in the back of the first section. A lady wrote a good piece about Manila roads. A blurb went similar to this: "A single high rise building of just 12 floors will create about 1000 new jobs. Does anyone consider this in regards to widening the roads to handle the new traffic? Shouldn't the President (or someone in charge) put an immediate halt to building anything that brings more people into the area?" She's right, and one could extend her claim to include condo's and hotels. Her assertion that high rise building should be halted for a period of time is probably logical, but money interests might not allow that.She's doubtless correct, and the situation is the same throughout the major cities. In Davao, where I live, there were no condos when I first moved here. Now, it's tough to drive a kilometer without seeing a high rise condo building, and there are more being erected all over the city. Also, I think that zoning laws are more of a suggestion, as there doesn't appear to be any enforcement at all regarding set-backs from the roads, number of parking places per square meter of construction or construction standards.

I should have also indicated in a prior post that there's very little enforcement of existing driving laws, leaving drivers free to act on whatever impulses they choose. Thus, blocking two lanes of traffic while you executive a left-hand turn from the right-hand lane is considered no big deal, as is choosing whatever lane you like on which to drive. The lack of any real enforcement compounds the problem though it's not a prime cause. Traffic management is another issue that doesn't seem to resonate much here.

There are long-term solutions to these problems, but I doubt they'll ever be enacted, just as there's been no action on the construction of a new airport and improvement of the air travel system though the need has been evident for a couple of decades. So, in considering whether to visit or to live here, the status quo has to be acknowledged and accepted, because it's not going to change meaningfully.

GE.

Kabul Guy
09-29-18, 05:30
...... So, in considering whether to visit or to live here, the status quo has to be acknowledged and accepted, because it's not going to change meaningfully.

GE.The problem is also that the existing construction now restrains additional widening of roads. I really doubt of anyone would tear down a high rise just to widen the road. The only solutions are more public transit to reduce traffic or to build either up or down to allow more lanes.

I was never in Boston during the Big Dig but as a construction professional I was always interested in reading about it then I recently worked with some engineers from Boston area who were involved in the project. It is a great project to have completed, Boston is now a relatively easy city to get around now, but it was many years of disruption, significant cost overruns plus a lot of eternal costs,. (lost time in traffic, businesses that located elsewhere to avoid the mess etc.).

I really don't think we want to see that here.

I'd take a close look at mass transit. Why not take the existing light rail system and make it a long loop instead of 4 separate systems? Two tracks with one having trains running clockwise the other counter clockwise. Then you could branch out from that loop, perhaps a couple diagonal lines and spurs to the outlying areas. Force all bus lines to relocate to depots located at the ends of the rail lines.

Have dedicated bus lanes and enforce the laws on them. They already have the yellow lanes on EDSA for public transport but it is not enforced.

Open up the number of Grab and taxi drivers. Currently there is a limit of 65,000 and about 10,000 of these are inactive. Issue anyone who wants to pay a relatively small fee and is otherwise acceptable to be allowed to be a driver. I spent over an hour yesterday trying to get a Grab driver.

The use of restricted dates based on plate number is a joke. I have a Filipino friend had 3 vehicles, his, his wife's and one that his two kids shared. He simply bought another with a plate number that allowed them to have 3 vehicles on the road daily, what happened is that his two kids each have a vehicle on weekends and one day a week when they can all be on the road. It actually increased congestion and took up a parking space on the street in front of his house. Another friend changes the plate number with black tape on his restricted day.

For airports I'd expand Clark and build a high speed link from there to a hub in Manila and on to the existing airport. Lots of cities have their international airport outside of the city. Edmonton Alberta Canada, Copenhagen Denmark and Reykjavik Iceland for three examples. Make the existing airport domestic flights only. (Perhaps private aviation and cargo flights to fill the capacity.).

In the short term start enforcing the traffic laws, have a public education campaign to make it the default behaviors to follow the traffic rules, put it in terms of national pride that Manila and the Philippines is a place of safe traffic. Use cameras with mailed out tickets and a punishment system that escalates quickly if fines not paid in the grace periods, up to and including confiscation of vehicle, loss of driving licenses and permits.

Have the Jeepney drivers re-pass their test on renewal. I read somewhere that about 90% of existing drivers failed the written test when retested.

GoodEnough
09-29-18, 09:48
For airports I'd expand Clark and build a high speed link from there to a hub in Manila and on to the existing airport. Lots of cities have their international airport outside of the city. Edmonton Alberta Canada, Copenhagen Denmark and Reykjavik Iceland for three examples. Make the existing airport domestic flights only. (Perhaps private aviation and cargo flights to fill the capacity.).

In the short term start enforcing the traffic laws, have a public education campaign to make it the default behaviors to follow the traffic rules, put it in terms of national pride that Manila and the Philippines is a place of safe traffic. Use cameras with mailed out tickets and a punishment system that escalates quickly if fines not paid in the grace periods, up to and including confiscation of vehicle, loss of driving licenses and permits.

Have the Jeepney drivers re-pass their test on renewal. I read somewhere that about 90% of existing drivers failed the written test when retested.All excellent points, none of which are likely to be implemented anytime soon. I've seen "studies" on subway feasibility going back at least 20 years with no action ever taken. The same with the light (surface) rail system, which Hong Kong engineers brought in to do a study about 5 years ago, identified as extremely dangerous given the antiquated equipment and the lack of effective maintenance.

I read somewhere that there are more than 100 private bus services (not counting jeepneys) operating in Manila. Buses are treated much as taxis in that bus drivers rent the vehicles from the bus companies and then compete with other drivers for fares. What not establish a municipal bus line, with drivers, mechanics, etc hired as employees of the bus line? I'm sure there are simply too many vested interests to allow this. Jeepneys should have been outlawed at least a decade ago, and so-called "trikes"—which are a real hazard in Davao—never should have been allowed on the road.

Enforcing traffic laws would be great, but the country lacks the personnel and equipment for meaningful enforcement, so the initial capital outlay would be substantial, though would more than pay for itself over time I'm sure from fines imposed. Anyone who drives here could point out at least 10-15 blatant violations per kilometer, all of which would provide potential revenues.

As to the airport, I understand nothing about why no progress has been made. I do know that during Aquino's time, San Mig provided preliminary plans for an airport that the company offered to finance in exchange for the right to run the non-aviation portions of the new airport. I think the company even built a scale model of its proposed airport for display in the lobby of its main building in Manila. Naturally, the proposal went nowhere. As to Clark, I don't believe that much work has been done on the place since the US Airforce built it. The terminal is little more than a Quonset hut, and I think there's only a single runway. I've no idea if the avionics equipment was ever upgraded, but I would not be surprised if it hasn't been. So I'm guessing that if Clark were to become the main hub, substantial modernization would be required. And those comments don't even touch on equally perplexing problems at other airports around the country.

GE.

Kabul Guy
09-29-18, 11:12
All excellent points, none of which are likely to be implemented anytime soon. ......I never thought any of these would be implemented. The Philippines is a plutocracy, that is a society ruled by a few powerful and wealthy families. Anything that threatens the wealth and power of these families will never happen.

The real irony is that if the Philippines was able to realize its potential, these families would become more wealthy but less powerful in ability to control the country by themselves. They could have a smaller piece of a much bigger pie, more pie overall but not the biggest piece.

X Man
09-29-18, 12:18
Quonset hut? I went thru the Clark Int Airport before they had done any interior work, other than ac. So I get what you mean. I can still think of all kinds of reasons to fly there rather than Manila.

Have you had a look at the new terminal at Cebu-Mactan Int Airport? The rest of the city is starting to feel like Manila, but they certainly got the right idea with the airport.


All excellent points, none of which are likely to be implemented anytime soon. SNIP
GE.

Soapy Smith
09-29-18, 18:42
You mean like the effective, inter-linked, system of mass public transport you have implemented in your home town in america flyoverland?Not just flyoverland: anywhere in the states. Are the underlying dynamics in the Philippines really that different than in the states? I suppose we have a system of laws and enforcement that appear on the surface better than those in the Philippines, but the extent to which laws are unevenly enforced may be different between the states and the Philippines only as a matter of degree. Imagine for a minute that the accusations against Brett Kavanaugh had been lodged against a poor Black man. But, of course, we in the states have established a veneer of "respectability. ".

From time to time the Social Weather Stations research group presents data about the distribution of wealth among Filipinos. So pull together the same data for the states. While the amounts of money are massively greater in the states, the percentages of distribution of wealth are not substantially different. That was the case when I made the comparison a few years ago, although call center work may recently have comparatively bloated the Philippine middle class somewhat.

GoodEnough
09-29-18, 20:01
Not just flyoverland: anywhere in the states. Are the underlying dynamics in the Philippines really that different than in the states? I suppose we have a system of laws and enforcement that appear on the surface better than those in the Philippines, but the extent to which laws are unevenly enforced may be different between the states and the Philippines only as a matter of degree. Imagine for a minute that the accusations against Brett Kavanaugh had been lodged against a poor Black man. But, of course, we in the states have established a veneer of "respectability. ".

From time to time the Social Weather Stations research group presents data about the distribution of wealth among Filipinos. So pull together the same data for the states. While the amounts of money are massively greater in the states, the percentages of distribution of wealth are not substantially different. That was the case when I made the comparison a few years ago, although call center work may recently have comparatively bloated the Philippine middle class somewhat.Not much argument from me. I looked up the Giri coefficient a few weeks ago, and as I remember that it was slightly higher in the Philippines, but not dramatically so. And we Americans all know what's happen to the condition of the country's infrastructure over the past decade or more. And, of course, we now boast likely the most corrupt excuse for a government in the developed world and among the most inept.

GE.

Socker
10-02-18, 06:20
Time for this topic to be moved to the right Forum. Asians and tourist in general are more generous then say the local expats. I don't recall any of my BGs telling me they're more generous and I go for what the Asians go for. A small percentage do get the best but most Asians take the mid tier women like everybody else. Plenty of nice cute 6's to be enjoyed and Asians know this.

The Asians are generally less wild and easier in this regard for BGs to handle. Western males are more inclined to take them and party hard. So one night it's the wild westerner the next the more sedate Asian. Some BGs cannot take this roller coaster ride week after week so they stick w one type. We've all heard about the "3 3 3 which translates to 3 minutes, 3 inches, 3 K. That's what the sharp BGs are after, an easy night. One look at me and they know I'm going to pound them good so some very hot BGs say no, preferably from the stage.

Asians IMO had the inside tract (in AC) a few years ago and since then they've been less of a concern for me. I think the women just got tired of them and also if a BG wants to get fucked good they know where that action is. That's what a few BGs have told me about the difference between Asians and westerners, we fuck better. And in my experience (and that's a lot) pinays are the more hornier of their Asian cousins. They love western dick.

Anyhow, pretty good list Blanq. I just added to it. Only newbies do not know these basics.

Red Kilt
10-13-18, 20:36
This is a really interesting interpretation of the "consenting and payment" transaction between guys and gals.

I am not a lawyer but if I was one of the guys who regularly tries to short-change a women (I'm not) or even "get it for free" it would worry me a bit, especially if there was an understanding that a payment was expected. In a society where the sex industry is legalised (like in Brisbane), then there is a legal pathway.
I guess it is much more murky for a filipina to pursue through any legal means a guy who short-changes her.

Of course, there is always the well-known ploy of calling in the reinforcements (like brothers, parents, boy friends, benefactors etc) and dealing with it extra-judicially.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/13/it-absolutely-should-be-seen-as-when-sex-workers-are-conned?CMP=soc_567&fbclid=IwAR3zZqFi9Bsp93CZez1qYudA2BvW8HCPsysm8skxgfJpO2d43Tt4eTNz6jM

Goferring
10-14-18, 07:34
I guess it is much more murky for a filipina to pursue through any legal means a guy who short-changes her.

Of course, there is always the well-known ploy of calling in the reinforcements (like brothers, parents, boy friends, benefactors etc) and dealing with it extra-judiciallyI'm not saying it never happens but I've never known repeat offenders to be directly confronted by angry boyfriends etc. However, I know of several times that said guys mysteriously get caught up in minor drug busts, motorbike hit and runs etc.

Remember, Karma is a Bit*h in Asia!!

Mr Enternational
10-14-18, 12:40
This is a really interesting interpretation of the "consenting and payment" transaction between guys and gals.This is fucking ridiculous. But in no way can this be considered raepe. All it is is theft of services. The other charge indicates forcibly having sex with someone against their will, which was not the case. But for not receiving payment, she would have had no problem with the action of sex with the male. Same as when you walk into a store, the owner does not care what you walk out with, as long as the money for it is left at the register. Puting a charge of sex assault on someone when this happens misconstrues and dilutes the definition of sex assault, which has nothing to do with an exchange of money.

The charge has to be in the action of money not exchanging hands (ie. fraud that it was), not in the deed of having sex with someone. This is a slippery slope, because if this created a precedent, likewise promising to take a chick to a concert if she fucks you could also result in the same charge if you end up not taking her to that concert.

And since this is transactional based, are those same people aruging for legal action to be taken when a sex worker promises something but does not come through? They should also receive the same charge, which most people would consider ridiculous. In that case they would argue that it was caveat emptor, or buyer beware, just like buying a used car in many places. They are not sending a chick to jail because she refused to do doggy style after promising it and being paid for it. Men watch out. The war on masculinity is real.

Chocha Monger
10-14-18, 18:31
This is fucking ridiculous. But in no way can this be considered raepe. All it is is theft of services. The other charge indicates forcibly having sex with someone against their will, which was not the case. But for not receiving payment, she would have had no problem with the action of sex with the male. Same as when you walk into a store, the owner does not care what you walk out with, as long as the money for it is left at the register. Puting a charge of sex assault on someone when this happens misconstrues and dilutes the definition of sex assault, which has nothing to do with an exchange of money.

The charge has to be in the action of money not exchanging hands (ie. fraud that it was), not in the deed of having sex with someone. This is a slippery slope, because if this created a precedent, likewise promising to take a chick to a concert if she fucks you could also result in the same charge if you end up not taking her to that concert.

And since this is transactional based, are those same people aruging for legal action to be taken when a sex worker promises something but does not come through? They should also receive the same charge, which most people would consider ridiculous. In that case they would argue that it was caveat emptor, or buyer beware, just like buying a used car in many places. They are not sending a chick to jail because she refused to do doggy style after promising it and being paid for it. Men watch out. The war on masculinity is real.Will they apply the same law to women who fraudulently obtain male consent? Many women lie about being on birth control to get men to nut in them raw and then put them on child support payments. When women do this, they steal half of the male victim's DNA and 20 to 33 percent of his gross income. As one man put it, "Women kill your dreams!" The same harsh punishments should apply to women who contract marriage under false pretense to snatch assets from gullible male partners in a subsequent divorce.

Is there any recourse for men tricked into paying for expensive surf and turf dinners at chic restaurants by a serial female mooch promising sex but never delivering after the meal? At the very least, it is grounds for a charge of theft by deception.

Marlboro Red
10-19-18, 12:16
Hi,

Any suggestion for Cebu? I am going next week, so any tips or guides would be nice. I have read the forum by yay not the most popular place in PH for a single guy.

Firebird
10-19-18, 12:17
Hi,

Any suggestion for Cebu? I am going next week, so any tips or guides would be nice. I have read the forum by yay not the most popular place in PH for a single guy.There is a separate Philippines Cebu forum. Why don't you review that thread?!

WestCoast1
10-19-18, 12:33
There is a separate Philippines Cebu forum. Why don't you review that thread?!Yes, but its really hard to find. First you scroll down to near the bottom of the Phils forums, under User Blogs, to find it. Then you click the Cebu link, only to be taken to another page with another link. Here it is:

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/forumdisplay.php?773-The-Philippines-Cebu

Wicked Roger
10-20-18, 01:28
Yes, but its really hard to find. First you scroll down to near the bottom of the Phils forums, under User Blogs, to find it. Then you click the Cebu link, only to be taken to another page with another link. Here it is:

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/forumdisplay.php?773-The-Philippines-CebuNot as hard as that Westie! Is easy to find and convenient IMHO. Just look at Asia and you it there rather than scroll down / If you do it that way easy to see but the other yes can be more time consuming. But some people don't even try to find which is the main issue.

AussieGaigin
10-20-18, 06:42
I'm no geography expert, but if Cebu is part of the Phillipines, why have "Phillpines-Cebu" as a virtual separate country listing?

NamasteParis
10-20-18, 15:00
I'm no geography expert, but if Cebu is part of the Phillipines, why have "Phillpines-Cebu" as a virtual separate country listing?True! I always was very surprised not to find a Cebu forum under the Philippines one, and discovered it only few days ago, thanks to the later posts!

WestCoast1
10-20-18, 15:12
I'm no geography expert, but if Cebu is part of the Phillipines, why have "Phillpines-Cebu" as a virtual separate country listing?Good question my non-geography expert.


Not as hard as that Westie! Is easy to find and convenient IMHO. Just look at Asia and you it there rather than scroll down / If you do it that way easy to see but the other yes can be more time consuming. But some people don't even try to find which is the main issue.When I log in, the last pic is the page that I see. On the left I have to click 'Philippines', which brings up the next page that I see (pic #2). Must scroll all the way down to the bottom section to find and click the Link to Cebu Forum thread (pic #1). Hassle.

Wicked Roger
10-21-18, 16:29
Good question my non-geography expert.

When I log in, the last pic is the page that I see. On the left I have to click 'Philippines', which brings up the next page that I see (pic #2). Must scroll all the way down to the bottom section to find and click the Link to Cebu Forum thread (pic #1). Hassle.I click on 'Asia' then scroll down you see Cebu under the main Philippines thread. Much easier to do and much easier to find also IMHO.

WestCoast1
10-22-18, 04:02
I click on 'Asia' then scroll down you see Cebu under the main Philippines thread. Much easier to do and much easier to find also IMHO.When you click on 'Asia', can you post a screen shot of that? When I log in, I see what is in this pic. There is a link for Philippines, but not for Asia.

Goferring
10-22-18, 06:16
When you click on 'Asia', can you post a screen shot of that? When I log in, I see what is in this pic. There is a link for Philippines, but not for Asia.Westie, you are correct. You cannot go from the log on page displayed direct to the Asia nor Philippines _ Cebu Forum.

The path is:

Front Page (your screen shot) upon log in or the blue tab at the top of any page.

Forums tab at the top of the page.

Open Asia forum, past Canada, Mexico etc. (Note Cebu is not listed under Asia here either. Dooh!

Open The Philippines_Cebu, past Afganistan, Bangladesh,. . . The Philippines.

Sorry no screen shots as my mobile destroys the page justification.

I agree it is as simple as Chinese algebra. That's why I have been guilty of deferring to the Philippines Forums if my post straddles other area. Eg. My post about first using PinaLove in Cebu was posted under Penpals rather than Cebu.

Wicked Roger
10-22-18, 06:49
When you click on 'Asia', can you post a screen shot of that? When I log in, I see what is in this pic. There is a link for Philippines, but not for Asia.Here you are Westie.

The Asia tab shows a list of all countries and scroll down to see Philippines and then under it is Cebu.

Or if in the Philippines thread reading / posting just click on Asia and the long list pops up.

See the screen shot and hope I helped any confusion LOL.

AussieGaigin
10-22-18, 10:24
This is what it looks like on my screen from the Forum - Asia menu page.

WestCoast1
10-22-18, 13:11
Westie, you are correct. You cannot go from the log on page displayed direct to the Asia nor Philippines _ Cebu Forum.

The path is:

Front Page (your screen shot) upon log in or the blue tab at the top of any page.

Forums tab at the top of the page.

Open Asia forum, past Canada, Mexico etc. (Note Cebu is not listed under Asia here either. Dooh!

Open The Philippines_Cebu, past Afganistan, Bangladesh,. . . The Philippines.

Sorry no screen shots as my mobile destroys the page justification.

I agree it is as simple as Chinese algebra. Yes, its clear as mud. After logging in, you must click several links to get to the Cebu forums. Jackson, help?

Red Kilt
10-22-18, 19:55
This is what it looks like on my screen from the Forum - Asia menu page.What's all the fuss about? I'm with Aussie G.

See Philippines. Cebu link and click it.

WestCoast1
10-22-18, 21:22
What's all the fuss about? I'm with Aussie G.

See Philippines. Cebu link and click it.For the Makati and AC forums, its that easy. However the Link to Cebu forum was moved a long time ago by Admin away from the same area as the Makati and AC forums, to the bottom of the page under "User Blogs". Even after you scroll down to find Link to Cebu and click it, you won't see the Cebu forums, you see the page in the pic, with yet another link that takes you to the Cebu forums. Admin, why the extra link? It can be hard for newbs to find.

OTOH, RK, its possible that we are seeing a different page upon login.

BaddHabbit
10-22-18, 22:09
For the Makati and AC forums, its that easy. However the Link to Cebu forum was moved a long time ago by Admin away from the same area as the Makati and AC forums, to the bottom of the page under "User Blogs". Even after you scroll down to find Link to Cebu and click it, you won't see the Cebu forums, you see the page in the pic, with yet another link that takes you to the Cebu forums. Admin, why the extra link? It can be hard for newbs to find.

OTOH, RK, its possible that we are seeing a different page upon login.Unlikely. I get the exact same screen you describe. Seems pretty silly.

Blanquiceleste
10-23-18, 00:39
This is what it looks like on my screen from the Forum - Asia menu page.Same as mine. No real trouble in finding it. But I see Westy's point too. If your preferred mode of access is through the screen shot Westy sent, then it can be a real hassle.

Kabul Guy
10-23-18, 02:21
Same as mine. No real trouble in finding it. But I see Westy's point too. If your preferred mode of access is through the screen shot Westy sent, then it can be a real hassle.I use the following in a shortcut, it opens Firefox to the main Philippine page and the Cebu page on a different tab.

"C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox. Exe" http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/forumdisplay.php?247-The-Ph http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/forumdisplay.php?773-The-Philippines-Cebu.

I imagine that other browsers have a similar command line syntax.

"Drive:\program path\program name. Exe" URL1 URL 2 etc.

Alternatively you can group the sites you want to open in a bookmark folder and then click on "Open all in tabs".

I actually have several different shortcuts on my desktop that each open a different set of tabs, i.e. My favourite news feeds, my fitness sites etc. Think of it as having multiple sets of home tabs depending on what you want to do right then.

Red Kilt
10-23-18, 06:58
RK, its possible that we are seeing a different page upon login.That's the problem WC.

You need to rejig your access as per KB's advice.

Heaven forbid we ever go back to the dog's breakfast that used to be the old Cebu forum.

Wicked Roger
10-23-18, 18:21
That's the problem WC.

You need to rejig your access as per KB's advice.

Heaven forbid we ever go back to the dog's breakfast that used to be the old Cebu forum.Well said RK as I was thinking the same when I saw Westies screen shot as it was a real dog's breakfast before and now manageable.

Wicked Roger
10-24-18, 04:44
A recent press link. Is well known and has been noted before here but these tend to remind us of how bad it can go and how slow it is to get out of the mire.

http://philippineslifestyle.com/justice-australian-cebu-jail-fie-years/

Plenty more example on that news site also.

KongKing
10-25-18, 01:58
Heaven forbid we ever go back to the dog's breakfast that used to be the old Cebu forum.


Well said RK as I was thinking the same when I saw Westies screen shot as it was a real dog's breakfast before and now manageable.It maybe the opinion of senior members of this forum that the Cebu Forum was a dog's breakfast.

But let us have a look at some facts. One good measure of the accessibility of a forum is by looking at the number of postings lodged by members. Since January 1 2017 there have been 358 postings to the Makati forum, which in effect is a sub-set of Manila. In the same period, since January 1 2017, there have been 221 postings to the Davao forum, an area where international travel advisories say high risk, and which for Mindanao is still under martial law, which would deter many from visiting.

Yet in that period there have been just 58 field reports posted for Cebu. In fact in 2017 there were more reports posted in the Dumaguete forum (6) than general field reports posted for Cebu's general reports (3) for 2017!

The current outburst re access to Cebu information was prompted by Marlboro Red:


Any suggestion for Cebu? I am going next week, so any tips or guides would be nice. I have read the forum by yay not the most popular place in PH for a single guy.I can fully understand how difficult it is to for most to scroll through the existing index for the Philippines to find Cebu positioned way down under "User Bloggs" and one position above Turdycurdyone's reply blogs. And then Cebu is still a couple of clicks away. And in doing so finding comparatively little information for the size that Cebu is.

What Jackson (the owner) needs to do in my opinion is to review the ease of access to Cebu from the main Philippines menu as a "Thread Title" and not as a "User Blog". In doing so, we can perhaps question why Cebu is raised to the level of an Asian country in one of the indexes.

Kabul Guy
10-25-18, 03:10
A recent press link. Is well known and has been noted before here but these tend to remind us of how bad it can go and how slow it is to get out of the mire.

http://philippineslifestyle.com/justice-australian-cebu-jail-fie-years/

Plenty more example on that news site also.While keeping a low profile is always advisable, I do feel that the threat of lengthy incarceration of a foreigner for minor transgressions here is somewhat overstated. However if you are the one guy in a million, then it was understated.

According to the official web site.

https://www.bjmp.gov.ph/datstat.html

As of May there were a total of 309 foreign detainees here. Over a third of them (110) were Chinese, add in the Koreans (27) and Taiwanese (19) and you get to over half. There were 28 Americans, 12 Aussies, 5 Brits and 2 Canadians. Indians (18) and Nigerians (14) are the only other countries in the double digits.

I did find recent news stories about several Canadians arrested for drug charges but they do not appear to show up on these stats. Three possibilities: They were released and deported (perhaps prisoner reparation?) They have dual citizenship and are counted in the second country totals. (There are some categories for people with dual citizenship, mostly fil and another citizenship.) Third possibility is that the official numbers are incorrect, either accidentally or due to a measure of incompetence and / or corruption.

Personally I believe that everyone in jail is there for one reason or another. It may be that they are actually guilty, it may be that they were innocent and just pissed off the police and the police are getting their revenge or it may be corruption or some other issue.

I think that everyone ever jailed here had lots of opportunities to get out of it, it may have cost a considerable amount of cash in on the spot no receipt fines paid or even later paying "fines" and getting put on an aircraft home.

My bottom line is to do everything possible to avoid ever being in official contact with the police. If I witness a crime or an accident, I'll just keep walking, if accused of a crime, I'll do whatever it takes to resolve the issue at as low a level as possible.

Remember if a second cop ever shows up, the spot fines just doubled, more if the second cop is a higher rank than the first cop, If a dozen cops show up the spot fines will be huge. If I ever had to pay a large spot fine, I'd give serious consideration to simply getting on the next plane to another country, then take another aircraft from there to a third place pretty quickly. They may just like their first taste so much that they come back for more. I have nothing in this country that I would not walk away from in a heartbeat if I deemed it necessary to save myself.

Always have a run bag packed and ready to go. I've done this in one form or another ever since we made an emergency pack when I was a Boy Scout over 50 years ago. (Contents right now: passport, significant papers, two week supply of any essential meds, cash, nutrition bars, phone charger and power bank, first aid kit couple changes shirts, underwear and socks, pair of pants and a tooth brush. Grab a water bottle at the door on my way out and I am ready for just about anything.).

Goferring
10-25-18, 03:45
Personally I believe that everyone in jail is there for one reason or another. It may be that they are actually guilty, it may be that they were innocent and just pissed off the police and the police are getting their revenge or it may be corruption or some other issue.

I think that everyone ever jailed here had lots of opportunities to get out of it, it may have cost a considerable amount of cash in on the spot no receipt fines paid or even later paying "fines" and getting put on an aircraft home.I was once on a plane with a US Consular official who was doing the rounds visiting all his fellow citizens in jails. He wouldn't speak about individual cases but he made it very clear that he considered them complete idiots as they:

1/ were stupid enough to do the crime or sufficiently pis off the wrong people in the first place.

2/ were so small fry that no one cares about bailing them out.

3/ had no means or plans to save themselves at the very earliest stages of a problem and.

4/ often expected others to come running to their aid.

I agree that the best remedy is to fly well below the radar to avoid any problems in the first place and, should anything come up, sort it out as soon and as low as possible.

Dg8787
10-25-18, 03:55
I was once on a plane with a US Consular official who was doing the rounds visiting all his fellow citizens in jails. He wouldn't speak about individual cases but he made it very clear that he considered them complete idiots as they:

1/ were stupid enough to do the crime or sufficiently pis off the wrong people in the first place.

2/ were so small fry that no one cares about bailing them out.

3/ had no means or plans to save themselves at the very earliest stages of a problem and.

4/ often expected others to come running to their aid.

I agree that the best remedy is to fly well below the radar to avoid any problems in the first place and, should anything come up, sort it out as soon and as low as possible.Totally agree with you.

Some dumbass Americans really think the US Marines are going to come soon and break down the prison walls to get them!

The only saving them will be the Army of Benjamins.

Hutsori
10-25-18, 04:08
Totally agree with you.

Some dumbass Americans really think the US Marines are going to come soon and break down the prison walls to get them!

The only saving them will be the Army of Benjamins.The US embassy did fuck all when a dependent of one of its staff was stabbed to death by a group of rich boys near Rockwell, so be assured they'll do nothing for general population normies unless you're the sister of Lisa Ling, in which case no effort will be spared.

Kabul Guy
10-25-18, 04:56
Totally agree with you.

Some dumbass Americans really think the US Marines are going to come soon and break down the prison walls to get them!

The only saving them will be the Army of Benjamins.

Yes, those wallet sized pictures of Benjamin Franklin are desired world wide.

It is only Americans that expect the world will do their bidding or else the USMC will storm ashore to teach the locals to behave with proper servitude.

Years ago I was driving across the border and had to go into the Canadian Customs building to pay tax and duties as I was over my persona exemption limits. There was an American there demanding that he be allowed to bring his guns into Canada, saying it was his second amendment right and besides he needed them to protect himself and his family from the "hordes of hostile injun's that still roamed wild up here". (his exact words) . The dumb ass was saying it to an Customs Officer who definitely looked like he had aboriginal ancestry. Subsequent news reports said he had numerous firearms including restricted and prohibited weapons. No word on how long he was a guest at one of Her Majesty's Iron Bar Hotels.

All any Embassy can do for their nationals incarcerated abroad is make representation to ensure that they are treated properly in accordance with local laws, bring money sent from home for sundry purchases, deliver and pick up mail for home and a few other minor tasks. They cannot and will not interfere in the administration of local justice for a common citizen, they may do some backroom arm twisting for prominent citizens or those especially targeted for more sever punishments due to their nationality as opposed to the crimes they committed but if you are an average citizen and are accused of something that would be a crime that is considered particularly reprehensible back home ( think drug and sex crimes) they will not help you at all. All you can do is put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye.

Dg8787
10-25-18, 04:58
Yes, those wallet sized pictures of Benjamin Franklin are desired world wide.Thankfully they are!

Chocha Monger
10-25-18, 07:00
A recent press link. Is well known and has been noted before here but these tend to remind us of how bad it can go and how slow it is to get out of the mire.

http://philippineslifestyle.com/justice-australian-cebu-jail-fie-years/

Plenty more example on that news site also.Great reading! The monger walked into that one. It was a bad idea to let friends of his girlfriend travel together with him, if he is in fact innocent. He is lucky that they did not have bricks of shabu in their luggage, and finger him as the drug smuggling mastermind. When casual Filipina acquaintances want to tag along with a foreigner, it often does not end well for the foreigner as the average Filipina is easily cowed by their compatriots into fucking over foreigners, and doubly so when said compatriots have a bit of authority. The monger learned the hard way that Filipinas are not his friends just because they grin at him and ask to tag along with him somewhere. They always have a purpose and practical use for the foolish foreigner who allows it. LOL! The poor bastard probably agrees to let his Filipino cell mates tag along to the showers with interesting results.

Wicked Roger
10-28-18, 01:21
Read this today and was chuckling to myself as I know a few guys in this position. I have always said that the greed of the family can ruin a relationship. The comments are interesting also. But sadly this way of thinking is all too common and is something that the westerner can't / won't understand an / or accept.

https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/311253/her-sister-also-wants-an-allowance-from-her-american-husband/

BrainDrain
10-28-18, 02:20
Read this today and was chuckling to myself as I know a few guys in this position. I have always said that the greed of the family can ruin a relationship. The comments are interesting also. But sadly this way of thinking is all too common and is something that the westerner can't / won't understand an / or accept.

https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/311253/her-sister-also-wants-an-allowance-from-her-american-husband/It's nice to see the guy is already supporting the mother. Eventually I think the sister will put the pressure on the mother to access the cash flow from that direction. Easier for the mother to request an increase for extra-expenses. The extra cash will flow to the sister.

The guy I screwed.

BD.

Chocha Monger
10-28-18, 04:49
Read this today and was chuckling to myself as I know a few guys in this position. I have always said that the greed of the family can ruin a relationship. The comments are interesting also. But sadly this way of thinking is all too common and is something that the westerner can't / won't understand an / or accept.

https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/311253/her-sister-also-wants-an-allowance-from-her-american-husband/WR,

I had a few demands over the years. Shot them all down immediately without hesitation, and gave the requester such a look of disgust that no other family members dared to try their luck at the jackpot. The parents get no allowance from me either. I find the idea ridiculous, as I do not provide one to my own parents. It would be stupid to provide some ungrateful Filipino parents an allowance instead of supplementing my parents' retirement or buying them nice presents on special occasions. I tell the Flip parents that charity begins at home, and I need to give my parents before anyone else's.

The American fella already did the family a huge favor when he married the salesgirl and relieved the family of an extra mouth to feed. Furthermore, he is slaving to pay for her visa fees and other costs associated with importing her. Once she gets to the USA, she will remit all her earnings to her lazy greedy family. He will have to support a healthy working adult who will spend money like a drunken sailor. Problems will arise when one or both parties are too tired for sex.

The American left himself open to abuse from the family the second he decided to give handouts to the mother. The free money is never enough for Filipinos, and other relatives start wondering why they are not getting handouts too because they figure the foreigner was stupid enough to fall for the support the parents scam. So, why not the other relatives too? LOL!

I understand and accept that the family may be lazy and greedy. I just refuse to enable and foster these repugnant traits with my hard-earned cash. LOL! Furthermore, it is a myth that elderly Filipinos get no social security. If they had jobs, their employers deducted from their salary for contributions to the plan. The self-employed Filipinos also have the option of contributing to social security pension plan. Those who do not only have themselves to blame. Why should the foreigner pay for their stupidity just because he fucked their daughter? LOL!

Another tidbit that foreign men should know is that destitute Filipino families with minor children receive money from the Department of Social Welfare if they request it. The program is similar to the American welfare system for single mothers. In addition, the barangay captains have funds and rice to help the poor members in the community. They can even provide free lots for building nipa huts in rural areas. Fellas need to live among Filipinos and learn enough of the language to discover these things. Maybe spend less time trying to fuck everyone in the barangay and playing peso millionaire. Once foreigners do this and stop listening to all the lies the natives tell to get handouts, they will discover things are not as dire as the lazy girls want them to believe.

If things were that bad, the girls would have starved to death before their white hero showed up to rescue them. Yet, no one reports seeing Filipinas dropping dead like flies and they continue to breed prodigiously. The girls are getting fatter, and rice bellies are common now in the late teens. That is the result of excess calories, sitting on their asses all day texting, sleeping until noon, and watching Showtime and Borrowed Wife.

A foreign man needs to run a tight ship to have a successful relationship with a Filipina. The fellas who bring out the bamboo and coco lumber as needed do not have such problems.

https://youtu.be/drgEmBAu0wI

Goferring
10-28-18, 07:20
Read this today and was chuckling to myself as I know a few guys in this position. I have always said that the greed of the family can ruin a relationship. The comments are interesting also. But sadly this way of thinking is all too common and is something that the westerner can't / won't understand an / or accept.

https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/311253/her-sister-also-wants-an-allowance-from-her-american-husband/Roger,

I'm glad to read that this is currently the wife's problem. That is the way it should stay because as soon as hubby gets involved the situation will become 100 times worse.

The ONLY way I have seen mixed couples successfully manage family finances is where a budget is done on day 1 and wifee receives enough for household expenses she is responsible for, including a fair (but not foolish) inclusion for her pocket money (clothes, entertainment and yes, family). The money and applicable bills are then her responsibility. Hubby never complains or gets involved in where it goes as long as food is on the table and power is connected. There is NEVER an early advance if money is short at the end of the month.

Dying grandmothers, cousins' school fees, new motorbikes or wonderful business opportunities are then her choice and responsibility. Any transferred funds will come out of her spending money, not the family unit's. It is amazing how quickly this will limit the frequency of requests and the shrinkage of the housekeeping money. Obviously it is also 100% stress free for hubby.

For those that ask "what happens when she blows the money by day 3?" Its simple. She is hungry for 27 days. There is no top up.

The lesson will be soon learnt.

It should go without saying that the guy also has some responsibility. He needs to choose someone who is reasonably competent and sensible. He also needs to have enough kahunas to take control of the situation from day one.

Guys that give unlimited access to joint accounts and facilitate an endless outflow of funds for unknown reasons deserve what they end up with: an empty bank account and lost assets.

Sammon
10-28-18, 14:35
Great reading! The monger walked into that one. It was a bad idea to let friends of his girlfriend travel together with him, if he is in fact innocent. He is lucky that they did not have bricks of shabu in their luggage, and finger him as the drug smuggling mastermind. When casual Filipina acquaintances want to tag along with a foreigner, it often does not end well for the foreigner as the average Filipina is easily cowed by their compatriots into fucking over foreigners, and doubly so when said compatriots have a bit of authority. The monger learned the hard way that Filipinas are not his friends just because they grin at him and ask to tag along with him somewhere. They always have a purpose and practical use for the foolish foreigner who allows it. LOL! The poor bastard probably agrees to let his Filipino cell mates tag along to the showers with interesting results.Every country has its own laws. Whether it is fair, reasonable, protects citizens is debatable. Still all people including foreigners have to obey. It would be easy to accompany a bunch of girls here in USA on a vacation or whatever. We have basic rights here.

Firstly any of us go for fun with girls to Philippines. And we get lulled into thinking we can do pretty much whatever we want. Even a simple girl can turn into a visceous trying to get you into trouble.

Piece of advice is do not get involved any adventures. Just have fun and get out.

D Cups
10-28-18, 14:52
It should go without saying that the guy also has some responsibility. He needs to choose someone who is reasonably competent and sensible. He also needs to have enough kahunas to take control of the situation from day one.

Guys that give unlimited access to joint accounts and facilitate an endless outflow of funds for unknown reasons deserve what they end up with: an empty bank account and lost assets.Wise words indeed. While we are on the subject has anyone taken Reekay's Bachelor course for living in or visiting the Philippines? He seems knowledgeable and helpful.