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Nobody across the whole board especially interested in Thailand has any views on safe sex in Thailand. What does it mean?
1. Sex in Thailand is so safe that nobody is worried?
or
2. People are so crazy about Thai pussies that nobody is worried about safety.
or
3. All people enjoying sex in Thailand knows what to do while in Thailand.
I think 3 is the correct answer.
Hey Guys
Chai Thung dee kwa na.
MarcoStraight
05-29-02, 18:44
.....Just in case some sucker, like me, forget to 'wear' something 'cause "- that girl was so beautifull and she told me I was the first farang she ever met"-.....
I hope anyone can find the follows informations useful.
(I wrote something similar in a precedent post....).anyway always good to remember :
Most common venereal disease in Thailand are :
N.S.U. (Non Specifical Disease).
In the 70 % of the case NSU is caused by a bacterial called Clamydia Thracomatis.This bacterial seems to be the N'1 mother****** around Thailand....
Problem is that Clamydia's molecular structure(DNA) is similar to a Virus, that's mean one time you get it you may produce antibodies.This bacterial is very,very smart.You might get it without symptoms. Most of the time NSU reveals oneself with itching and a small white drop in the morning before the first [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140).
Few times , no drop, no nothing.
If you think you catch something like this I suggest :
1) If you stay in your country ask for an urethral tampon and (very important) for an IGG & IGM research (by blood) both for Clamydia.IGG is antibody for old infections (if you have had it) IGM is for current infection (if you have it now).
2)If you stay in Thailand,Pattaya rule N' 1 : don't go ABSOLUTELY to small clinics . Most of them are runned by liars paramedicals who don't know nothing , they just want to sell as much drugs they can....
In Thailand they can't scan Clamydia but they can tell you if you got an NSU.Best place to go in Pattaya is Bangkok Pattaya Hospytal on Sukhumvit Road Km. 143, Naklua Banglamung area.
tel. 038 / 427777.
They will send your test to the Laboratory test of Chonburi Medical Center (RIA) wich is the only one able to do it.
You can go straight to Chonburi as well : Chonburi Medical Center
13/32 Wachiraprakarn Road, Bangplasoy. tel. 038/792357-60.
3)If you don't want to go to any doctor 'cause you don't trust no-one, my suggestion is to take : ERYTHROMICIN, 500 mg. every 8 hours for 7 - 10 days or RULID 300 mg. 2 tbl.a day for 7 - 10 days or Zythromax 1 gramm every 3 days......(with me Erythromicin worked..).All of these ant. are from Macrolides family that seems to be the best to erase NSU.Don't use Doxiciline...It doesn't work, trust me.
Please do not underestimate this...Recent studies have proved relations between heart stroke and Clamydia.
As I said in my precedent post you're not gonna die but better open an eye....
Despite this, still believe Thailand and Pattaya are the best place in the world.... peace.
MarcoStraight
05-29-02, 18:50
..sorry N.S.U. is for Non Specifical Urethritis......instead Non Specifical Disease.... M.
MarcoStraight
05-30-02, 18:00
Skinless,
first of all, let me tell you that,reading the board, I agree with your point of view about Thai girls most of the time.(..you can consider this as a compliment ...done by a 'true thaigirls veteran' like me..he,he..)
About 'souvenirs', don't worry I get it many times in the past, it can happens, we are not cold machines.
Getting gonorea/clamydia is very normal in Pattaya as BKK.
That's why if you go to some clinic there , they're gonna give you a single injection wich should erase gonhorrea and a 3 to 5 days course of tablets in case you get NSU as well.
So if you get both of 'souvenirs' my suggestion is to use :
Trobicin inj. 2 grams each dosage for 2 days (it gonna kill nesseirea gonhorrea) and erythromicin tbl. 250 mg. every 6 hours,
for at least 7 days (about clamydia).
This program will erase Gonhorrea and NSU as well .
Where to buy this ?
In pattaya there's a pharmacy in soi 17 (I think is 17..) coming from Marine Plaza, after Jack Holt French beauty salon , must be the first street on the right..I guess soi 17. The Pharmacy is called
CHULA , you can't miss it, and it is almost in front of the big open market place. It is the only pharmacy having Trobicin inj. 2 grams from Upjohn Pharmacia, USA. I think this drug is the best to treat gonhorrea, better than Rocephin. Erithromicin (Erythrocin) you can buy anywhere , Boots 1th floor Royal garden as well.
If you stay in BKK, go to the biggest pharmacy in PatPong, the one after Kings Corner, they should have anything.
It's very funny.....Last time I was in pattaya I was talking with a dear friend of mine from Germany, and we were thinking that 15 years ago most of the time we talked just about wich girls was better than...etc.,etc., now most of the time we talk about wich kind of antibiotics is better than......
MarcoStraight
06-01-02, 14:17
Skinless,
I'm not an expert, as I told you I'm just a veteran about it....
I've just reported what has worked with me and with few friends of mine.....
Of course the best way to treat these kind of NSU should be find out first the responsable bacterial and then start with proper antibiotic .So, you should find a good laboratory test first , then you will see wich kind of antibiotic is sensitive or not.....
If you go to the Hospytal and you ask for a doctor they will try to steal you as much money they can.....(they will start to check your pressure..!!!??? is'n it ?).
Most of the pharmacies in pattaya got the right stuff.It's the same stuff you gonna find in the hospytal.
About using wrong antibiotics, I'm totally agree with you ...Might be very dangerous 'cause you will grow resistant bacterials....
But..trust me ,my friend, Macrolides antibiotics are N° 1 to treat NSU.
Anyway about laboratory test centers, keep on consideration those I mentioned before....If you know some better places , please let me know.
PS/... something funny...
I guess it did happens to you too........
...going to an hospytal like Pattaya Memorial or Bangkok Pattaya, waiting in a queue at the hospital reception , then when your turn comes a very nice and gentle girl receptionist ask you in front of everybodies :
" Hello Mister, what's your problem today ?"....Everybody in the queue are able to hear anything, so can you immagine if you go there for gonhorrea how the situation could be ' funny' one time you gonna answer her .. : "- Yes I'm here 'cause I got some dirty spoil going out of my dick...and I feel burn when I [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)...."-
....But maybe this is one of the amazing things we can find only in Thailand and that's why we like it as well....
Hello everyone,
Regarding this topic I too have had a painful experience. I was in Pattaya and unfortunately listened to the ladies in the Pharmacy who sold me a bunch of antibiotics that of course didn't work. Fortunately I met someone who told be about Doctor Samnuek's small clinic on central road. Don't know the exact address but it is only a few minutes on a songtaew from second road. He looked at the puss in a microscope told me it was Gonorrhea and gave me a shot. After that he gave me two kinds of pills to take for a few days, and then I was fine. This cost me about 2000 if I remember correctly. Despite that painful experience I have been foolish enough to have several girls without protection. Nothing has ever happened to me again though. I think it is just a question of how well you can pick them.
Have fun everyone, and take care of yourselves!
to those it might interest, this is a letter published recently in the british medical journal. i do not know that journal, nor am i familiar with the research told by mr. mohammed ali al-bayati. i find that the way he tells his story is interesting though.
enjoy the reading.
seydlitz
===================================
hiv does not cause aids
30 january 2002
to the editor:
the aids establishments have spent the last twenty years focusing on the hiv and not on the real causes of aids. the correct approach for investigating the cause(s) of a disease is by evaluating all medical evidence that considers infectious, chemical, nutritional, and metabolic factors. as a pathologist and a toxicologist, i evaluated the published literature on the
worldwide aids epidemic and found that hiv does not cause aids. in my book “get all the facts: hiv does not cause aids”, i described the multifactorial causes of aids in the world and explained the pathogenesis of aids in different risk groups [mohammed ali al-bayati, 'get all the facts: hiv does not cause aids' toxi-health international, dixon ca 1999, 183 pages isbn
0-9673536-0-2].
my findings include:
1) the hiv-hypothesis is not supported. hiv is a harmless virus in both the in vivo and the in vitro settings.
2) aids in drug users and homosexuals in the u.s. and europe is actually caused by the heavy ancillary use of glucocorticoids and other immunosuppressive agents to medically treat the wide range of chronic serious illnesses of the respiratory system, gastrointestinal system, and other organs, malnutrition, release of endogenous cortisol, and opportunistic infections in these persons. the appearance of "aids" in the u.s. and europe has coincided with the approval of glucocorticoid aerosoll use in 1976, the introduction of crack cocaine, the use of heroin by inhalation, and the use of alkyl nitrites by homosexuals to enhance sexual activities.
3) aids in hemophiliacs is related to the use of corticosteroids and other immunosuppressive agents to prevent the development of antibodies for factors viii and ix and to treat other chronic illnesses such as joint disease.
4) aids in people receiving blood and/or tissue is related to the use of glucocorticoids to prevent reactions of transfusion and tissue rejection, and to treat other illnesses.
5) aids in infants and children is caused by their exposure to drugs and corticosteroids in utero and their exposure to corticosteroids used after birth to treat their chronic illnesses.
6) aids in africa is caused by malnutrition, release of endogenous cortisol, and opportunistic diseases. atrophy in the lymphoid tissue in people suffering from malnutrition has been known since 1925. malnutrition causes severe atrophy in the thymus and lymphoid organs and impairs the function of the t cells. these changes are reversible by feeding. the size of the thymus in malnourished children increased from 20% of normal to 107% of normal, following nine weeks of feeding.
7) kaposi's sarcoma (ks) and lymphoma are induced by the use of steroids and drugs, and the release of endogenous cortisol. they are not caused by a slow virus. ks is reversible upon the termination of treatment with immunosuppressive agents prior to metastasis.
8) the medications currently used to treat patients with aids, such as azt, protease inhibitors, and glucocorticoids, are highly toxic. they can even cause aids in asymptomatic patients, and make the disease worse in patients with aids. these drugs do not have any therapeutic value, and their use must be discontinued immediately.
9) damage to the immune system is rapidly reversible after removal of the true insulting agent or treatment of the true causes. for example. a) the cd4+ t cells of 1075 hiv+ pregnant women increased from 426/ul to 596/ul in six months by giving these women a balanced diet. this also improved the outcome of their pregnancy; and b) the reduction in cd4+ t cells in hiv homosexuals was also reversed by the cessation of treatment with glucocorticoids.
my findings have been reviewed and supported by scientists and physicians.
mohammed ali al-bayati,
president, toxi-health international
toxi-health international, 150 bloom dr., dixon, ca 95620
send response to journal:
re: hiv does not cause aids
email mohammed ali al-bayati:
maalbayati@toxi-health.com
below are the links to some of these articles and
reviews:http://www.toxi-health.com; http://www.mercola.com/20
01/jul/11/aids2.htm; http://www.rethinkingaids.com/archive/2001/index.htm;
www.aliveandwell.org/index.php?page=study
Well, I can say that his theory on Kaposi's sarcoma, for one, doesn't exactly hold up. There are several studies, for example, about increased rates of Kaposi's in South Africa, where steroids and drugs are not exactly available.
I'd have to spend time looking at the others, but frankly I don't see why to bother, as, according to his vita, he's first and foremost trained as a veterinarian, most of his work is about environmental toxicology and none of it about infectious disease, and pretty well nothing that he states as "fact" in his letter is anything he's done actual research on. How is this guy possibly expert enough to make the claims he does?
Joe_zop, skinless,
I agree that Mr. Mohammed Ali Al-Bayati's views are somewhat rudimentary and can be questioned on many accounts. This is why I was careful to put some distance between myself and his views.
I found that the way he went through the issue was provocative, and as such worthy of posting in here. And also the fact that his letter was published in a British journal that is rather on the other side of the controversy.
And, Skinless, you might say that I am playing with words again, but I do agree that HIV and AIDS are real. There would be no issue if they weren't. But the point is that I suspect that they have been invented. They were created, out of a still-to-be-isolated virus and a list of non-specific diseases. And the causality between the two was not established.
Now that we have the concept of HIV/AIDS with us, the issue is how to deal with it. And that is where we disagree.
Packripper
07-10-02, 18:27
now this is just me...
but I deal with it with condoms. ;) at 28, I want at least another 40 good years of having fun instead of rotting away at say 31 or 32.
packem and rippem.
:)
Joe_zop:
about statistics in South Africa.
We should keep in mind that the Republic of South Africa is a country that has gone trhough a lot of trouble in the last 30 years. It offers the contrast of first-world modernity with middle age dark Africa.
Statistics from the RSA can be very misleading. For example: in several districts, the population is seen to decrease. That is the number of deaths outnumber the number of births. Terrible fact of a country ravaged by AIDS ?
Well, maybe not. Until recently, in several parts of the country, the South African civil service was not much concerned about the black population. Many births and deaths were unreported in rural areas. But now, they are recording deaths of people who were never born, according to their registers.
And quite possibly people who died a while back as well, in an effort to catch up with the late paperwork.
All that can have a disruptive effect on statistics. I am not aware of the KS studies you mention, but it might be that the increase you mention is a mere consequence of a better classification of statistcal events in a country that does not have all the tools that western countries have.
MondaysChilde
07-16-02, 23:46
One thing I noticed in Thailand in 2001 was how many farangs there looked downright Unhealthy.
Fat White Zombies shuffling up/down Sukhumvit Rd.
Take a look some time and see if you agree.
Great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Seydlitz, agreed that South Africa is not necessarily a place where statistics are reliable. It's been months since I read the study, but as I recall the researcher was looking at the rates both within a narrow and larger geographical context, using one smaller locale and the country as a whole. I don't remember enough of his methodology to make a judgement about the stats. I do know that any number of sources (while carefully making the distinction between HIV-1 and HIV-2) call Kaposi's "endemic" to East Africa, and are working to identify the method in which it is transmitted, and the very existence of these efforts, which indicate at least a high enough level of Kaposi's to be at least somewhat significant, in and of themselves seem absolutely counter to the theory presented by Al-Bayati that it is caused by immunosuppressive drugs and steroids, which are just not all that present in the region.
Originally posted by MondaysChilde
One thing I noticed in Thailand in 2001 was how many farangs there looked downright Unhealthy.
Fat White Zombies shuffling up/down Sukhumvit Rd.
Take a look some time and see if you agree.
Great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
I have lived in the middle of the action on Sukhumvit for 18 months. It's great fun. But I have have never gotten used to the "Fat White Zombies" you mentioned. "Fat White Zombies" wallets, combined with their sex drive, makes them "desirable" among the *****s. Just imagine one of those guys pumping away on some 20 year-old girl, his fat floppy stomach slapping away, driven by his pimply ass. Disgusting.
Originally posted by Kris
...I think it is just a question of how well you can pick them.
You've GOT to be kidding! Unless your "pick them" process involves isolating them for 3 months before checking their blood and pussy for a variety of STDs, you are praticing very risky behavior. To think otherwise is moronic.
someone thai made condoms are not very reliable.and
failure rate is much higher ..so he told me to buy condoms inmy country and take them to Thailand.
is this true?
The statistic I've seen repeated in various places is that Thai condoms have an 11% failure rate, but I've been unable to track down the original source, so it's hard to tell whether that's an accurate number or if someone just threw that percentage out and everyone keeps repeating it.
But given that I keep hearing the same thing over and over about Thai condoms from a variety of places, I just play it safe and make sure I've got a good supply from home, where I know from experience what I'm getting. Why risk it?
Where can I buy viagra in Bangkok, and how much do they cost ? Is it true you can buy them on the streets, laced with illegal narcotics ? (I wanna stay well away from that sort of rubbish !)
You can buy them at most pharmacies, and they run about 500 baht each. You can get better prices by buying more.
Thanks ! Is there any trouble getting viagra through customs ? (I'm not talking about large quantities, obviously, just a few.)
MondaysChilde
09-11-02, 18:21
Dufus, LOL, how true. Probably sporting a profusion of welts, whiteheads, rope burns and assorted skin rashes from the heat...
Since this is the Safe Sex section, I gotta tell ya, any strategy in a 3rd-world or even second-world country (like Thailand) HAS to include thinking about who your sweet little partner just bonked...
anyone for a tuktuk driver's sloppy seconds?
That's why I will always stay high-end (Poseidon, etc.).
MondaysChilde
09-12-02, 01:01
Re VIAGRA - - I got what I think was a bad batch of viagra from a sukm. Rd. pharmacy near Nana Entertainment Plaza.
It made my eyes red and sting a bit, and did not have much effect otherwise (although my evening takeout took care of that!)
FIND AN EXPAT WHO KNOWS WHERE TO GO. Phoney drugs are big business in SE Asia.
As for getting them back to your country - why try? You may get hassled at the gate and wind up spending 6 hours in the holding tank at Don Muang Airport while your plane leaves w/o you.
TonydaSnake
10-29-02, 18:15
I had the (probably) typical experience of running out of my meager supply of American brand condoms way too soon. I decided to try the local pharmacist who said this Japanese brand sells best. I tried them (forgot name) and realized for two nights that my wood would go limp about two or three minutes after I put the condom on. First, I thought it was the girl of course! But it happened with two girls in a row, and one girl three times as soon as I started the deed! This sure made me sympathize with impotance sufferers! But fortunately for me the problem was the condoms. I shopped around and found the Thai durex brand comes in three thickness, including a "featherlite" variety in the gold box. These had very much the feel of the condoms I brought, and in retrospect, the Japenese brand were like steel casings.
Also, I mean to try Viagra on my next trip to LOS since I was absolutely maxed out on two girls. Although I can get wood more than twice per day, I find it nearly impossible to finish...so what exactly does Viagra do for the average bloke. Does it just help you get wood or pop off as well?
Tony
re your snake, ha ha!
Viagra justs get you up quick and VERY hard! It does not help you "pop off" just encourages you to try!
Originally posted by Freeler
Joe,
If it was the clap, make sure to get another test in 4-6 months or so. but I guess the doctor told you...
No I never had it, but similar symptoms can show up in fungal infections, eg the wounds on the skin that won't heel... My doctor was very nervous about it and had me re-checked -bloodtest- after half a year.
Yup, absolutely good advice. I've every intention of getting a full workup once I get home in any event. The doctor here said what he found was non-specific -- some kind of infection, nothing raising a particular flag, so he prescribed doxy which banged the symptoms away pretty quickly. I'm well aware that STDs can hide in your system for a long time before they come back out, and I'll be having a complete bloodwork done when I get home.
As far as the fungal, again, yes, I know there are some nasties here, and originally I wasn't sure whether it was a dose or something from some street food that wasn't quite cooked properly. Since I'm not a resident I know there are all kinds of bacteria, both goodand bad, other folks here have in their system that I lack.
I think your advice holds for travel in general -- any time you get sick overseas, STD or not, it's not a bad idea for follow up after a few months.
do thai girls have health cards like they do in Mexico? Where can i find these girls in Thailand? I dont mind paying a little more.
Originally posted by skinless
http://www.ashastd.org/stdfaqs/syphilis.html
I post this as it says oral sex can give it to you. When I got my own souvenir, I did some extensive research. Syphiliis is rampant in SE Asia and chlamydia comes with the TG package.
Talks of them getting tested etc is bs. They are uneducated and unlike Mexico, there is nothing like a feminist network to insist on condoms etc. They most likely regard STDs as part of the job. I would imagine the ladies doing 10 BJs a day are not too picky, something like guys washing cars. Also, Joe, you were drinking a lot so your mind was probably not at 100%.
Please inform us where you think you got it. That is more important to me than a blow by bj account in some sordid bj bar or other.
Please everyone remember that the ladies we bonk are societal rejects with little medical experience. The doctors they go to are most likely under paid quacks or greedy guys who, faced with their STDs every day of the week, will tell them to "breathe out on the way up", have a wash now and again and don't take it too much in the butt. And who are told not to fuck around if the sores and puss are too obvious.
Joe I salute you for admititng you stoped a bullet. Please tell us where, when and how. Save the sex as we can do that ourselves if we have money.
Well, I wish I could blame it on drinking, or the combo of that and jet lag, but it was actually from engaging in moderately risky behavior -- i.e. unprotected mutual oral. Yes, I know it's not completely safe, and Freeler's comments regarding the way to go are something I mostly agree with (except that using condoms with N-11 has actually been shown to increase the risk for women, especially sex workers, as it irritates membranes -- there appears to be a very minimal difference between safety with or without it as long as condoms are used) but to me at some point you also make choices about the degree of risk you take versus the degree of enjoyment you desire. If I was smart and safe, I'd not be boinking at all, of course, and certainly would not do anal, even protected, etc. But I do a visual check for sores or irritation both around mouth and genitals, and refrain if I'm the least bit concerned, and I use condoms and lube for all penetration.
My best guess, Skinless, is that I contracted my dose from the worker from the Kangaroo Bar who I took for the night, as the odds are higher there as I both gave and received unprotected oral. I know you can get it only from bbbj, but the odds on that are lower, so I'd bet it was on me giving rather than receiving. For what it's worth, I plan on looking up this TG when I go back and offering to get her checked out, but we all know the likelihood that will make any difference is minimal. Still, it's what I'd do at home, so I'll do it here as well.
And to finish on the follow-up -- I saw an excellent foreign-educated doctor who spoke fluent English at Chiang Mai's Ram Hospital. My symptoms are completely gone, but I'm naturally finishing all the given medicine, going to do a follow-up with him, and will do another at home. While I'm willing to entertain a degree of risk, I'm also committed to cleaning up any mess I make.
(And I may or may not save the sex for other threads :-) though right now I'm saving a bit as I've got a gem.)
I'll put 100-1 on you giving.
guys,
i hope you all will accept this in the spirit in which it is intended, which is to be helpful.
i have been following this std discussion, and i applaud joe_zop and skinless for their honest and forthright discussion of their own experiences with stds contracted in thailand. it is not an easy subject for many, but should be handled without judgment. we are talking about germs here, and there should be no stigma in facing the problem.
that said, i have to point out the vast array of misinformation that has been posted so far. i won't point fingers, or quote posts, and i mean no disrespect to those who are misinformed, but some light has to be shed here.
good washing is effective in preventing many diseases, and can not hurt, though i disagree with placing anything inside your urethra which would cause irritation (soap). irritated tissue is an open door to bacteria, and viruses. and just how well can you wash your dick in the nasty hongnam at star of light? by the time you get back to your hotel shower, it won't help much. taking a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) right after intercourse may wash some bacteria out, and prevent infection some of the time. if your [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901) gets too frisky, and leaves toothmarks and abrasions, you are more susceptible to infection until it is healed.
condoms are the best we've got for prevention, and each of us has to decide when and where we will use them, based on how much risk we can tolerate.
let this be a starting point, not the definitive list of stds and their effects. there is a wealth of info on the net, and anyone who has multiple sex partners, condoms or not, should take the time to become informed.
i will resist the temptation to write about the medical details of each, but here is a good link which is easy to understand:
http://www.unspeakable.com/facts/facts.jsp
take the time to read it, and decide for yourself the level of risk you are prepared to take in your travels. it is a conservative page, and will advocate 100% condom use, but it has accurate info. i have my own line in the sand, and you should be prepared to draw yours.
important: as a number of people have pointed out, especially in thailand, there is no reason to fear going to a doctor, if you have any doubts about your health. go, and go back until you are sure you are ok. medical training is quite good in thailand, and if you are in bkk or chiang mai, you have a bunch of choices where english is spoken. doctors here are not judgmental, and will treat you cheerfully, and pleasantly. even though it is by far the most expensive in thailand, bumrungrad is absolutely cheap by western standards, and is world-class, with pampered service almost unknown in hmo-land.
pay attention to the idea that there is a period during which you may be infected, but have no symptoms. during that time, tests may be negative, and you may infect others. if the little head gets the best of the big one, and you do something you know is unsafe, follow up multiple times.
one last recommendation: there are specific vaccines available for hepatitis a and b. hep b is considered an std, while hep a is associated with fecal contamination of food. see your doctor, and get both, if possible (the shots, i mean). i have never been seriously ill from food in thailand, and i can deal with the occasional traveller's trots. hepatitis a, on the other hand, is a nasty way to end your vacation. hepatitis b is a killer, and easily transmitted by body fluids during sex. vaccination can prevent both, and leave you with only about 6-8 other stds to worry about :)
i'm not dogmatic about what you should or shouldn't do, what precautions to take, or what risk you can live with. being informed, though, is the only way to make your own decisions.
i hope this is seen as useful.
wildman
originally posted by skinless
mojo: they are terrible odds you are giving. what gives?
joe: thanks for your report and be careful. i did phone up the bb one and tell her my news and i know by reading her emails she got cleaned up. the kangaroo lady will deny it of course. please excuse my approach as i do not want syphilis:
did you get oral or genital symptoms?
are you cleaned up already?
are you drinking lots of water?
please keep us informed on this as it is very important. we are the only two who ever admitted here to being purple hearts. you saluted me. i salute you.
skinless (audie murphy)
well, you're likely right mojo, but it's rather irrelevant from my perspective, since i'm a fan of both giving and receiving (umm, though of pleasure, not diseases.) that's one of my lines in the sand, and while, as i mentioned, i try to minimize risk through inspection in that regard, i'm well aware of the inexactness and risk of that approach, especially given that i've just had an object lesson. that said, this is the first dose i've had in probably three hundred partners over the years.
wildman, i stand convicted of posting an incorrect assumption -- and believe me i have absolutely no problem being corrected, so please point out any other place i've passed along something incorrect, as this forum is only as good as the valuable info posted on it. based on symptoms from the link you posted it appears pretty clear that what i had was chlamydia rather than syphillis. (and thanks for that link, btw -- i actually spent a fair amount of time searching for a symptom chart for male symptoms of chlamydia, as that was one of the things i suspected and simply couldn't find them. the joys of my lousy los dialup connection, which seems a bit less cranky today.) despite what the particular posted site claims, which is that chlamydia is transmitted via unprotected intercourse and can be prevented by condom use, in my case there absolutely was protection at all times during intercourse (and no condom tearing or breakage either, as i checked.) other sites also cite fluid exchange through the mouth as a transmission method, which is pretty clearly what happened in this case. i knew that was also the case with syph, which is why i went there as a solution when my chlamydia searches came up empty.
i apologize to all for the incorrect assumption -- recall that i said my doctor was somewhat vague, said it could be syph, was definitely an std, and prescribed doxy, which i see by the site is the treatment called for by chlamydia. i did not receive any kind of penicillin which would be the treatment for syph and others.
washing is, in fact, something the cdc recommends as a way of killing surface germs and generally reducing risks, but i agree with wildman that anything likely to irritate tissue is completely counterproductive.
now for what it's worth, i've had the complete sequence of all hep vaccines, as well as yellow fever, tetanus, etc. pretty much any kind of traveller's vaccination you can get, i've had in the past few years, as i've travelled to a number of third-world places, and all my vaccines current. i'm with you, wildman -- frankly i'm far more worried about hepatitus, especially some of the new and nasty strains than syph or some of the others. hep and hiv are the two nasties that i worry about most, as you can cure or at least live with the others.
i apologize to anyone who finds this all too clinical, but i'm hoping people can learn from my experience. it happened, i'm a big boy and knew it was part of the equation, and by posting this stuff here perhaps i can make a little lemonade out of the lemon. so, to answer your questions, skinless:
1. my symptoms were burning during urination, fever, nausea and incontinence. let me note that i gave this less that 24 hours before i consulted a doctor, as the burning was clearly not one of my usual "ate the wrong street food" symptoms, and i was perfectly aware of the specific risks of my behavior. it is worth noting that many men are asymptomatic for chlamydia.
2. my symptoms are gone, and according to what i've read the disease should be essentially knocked out of my system at this point since it's been a week, though i'm obviously going to finish the full cycle of treatment and do a follow-up. i should no longer be a risk to any partner.
3. absolutely, i'm staying hydrated to the max, and it's all bottled water. i do a lot of walking around here, it's far hotter than what i'm used to even though it's the cool season, and i'm probably going through nearly a gallon of water a day. i've little doubt this aids in flushing the system, since mine's certainly been flushing out fair amounts of water the past several days. better too much than too little in this regard.
and i'm absolutely going to let my partner from kangaroo know when i return to bangkok next week, as she's clearly more at risk from me from this particular disease, even had i not gotten cleaned up. good to hear, skinless, that the bb one has gotten herself taken care of -- i hope she understands that this is an occupational hazard that she needs to take care of in order to safeguard her future. i've been hanging out with a friend in chiang mai who's adopted a nice kid whose mother died from aids, and he is pretty rep001hing, given the thai obsession with family, which has a pretty loose definition, on the attitudes of thais about the problems of people not part of their own family.
If you are coming up with diseases frequently, it can be a sign of a larger problem with your immune system which may be lower due to alcohol or drugs, pre-existing conditions, etc. Just because you are exposed to a virus doesn't mean you get sick.
I remember back in the 80's when HIV was a very scary subject and a lot of the medical people were scaring the crap out of everyone with doom and gloom scenarios. I had to work very hard to get good research about what it meant for me and my hobby.
Getting a disease like gonnorea from receiving oral sex or even kissing, as is suggested on some medical web-sites, fits it he category of a needless fright tactic directed at teens, IMO.
As far as giving oral to a Thai working girl, thats a big no-no. Blood is the area of extreme concern as far as HIV goes. Although its a manageable disease now, you don't want to run that risk.
If I was going to do that, first fews days in Bangkok I'd take my preferred girl for some very good tests (no test is 100%) and then keep her for the duration.
joe_zop
sorry to read that you had some health-related concerns spoiling your time in LOS, and glad that it seems over by now.
In your most recent post, you mention "a friend in Chiang Mai who's adopted a nice kid whose mother died from AIDS".
Would you care indicating what illness exactly took the life of the kid's mother ?
mojosaur:
you write "As far as giving oral to a Thai working girl, thats a big no-no. Blood is the area of extreme concern as far as HIV goes. Although its a manageable disease now, you don't want to run that risk.
If I was going to do that, first fews days in Bangkok I'd take my preferred girl for some very good tests (no test is 100%) and then keep her for the duration."
HIV is NOT a disease, and HIV infection is NOT manageable. If your tests turn positive, the good doctors will submit you to an extremely unpleasant cocktail of drugs for a very long time (in fact until you die of it).
As for your second idea, concentrating on one girl makes sense since you avoid the promiscuity issue, but there can be no certainty that she is virus-free. You might be focusing on the very one who will contaminate you...
Let's face it: *****mongering is a somewhat dangerous activity.
Originally posted by Seydlitz
[
Let's face it: *****mongering is a somewhat dangerous activity. [/i]
Yes, but the danger is relative to one's practices. I did it all over the world for 20 years and have never gotten so much as a cold sore.
Using condoms is common sense....giving oral sex with a lot of mouth to mucous membrane contact is not a good idea, assuming that one wants to remain healthy.
More importantly, there is no reason anyone should ever get it, *****mongering or not. It is 100% preventable.
I was just trying to suggest a few ways this fellow could minimize his risks and still do his thing. Although a negative test would not be 100%, it would be a lot better than Russian roulette.
Afar as the flushing thing goes, I've always been told by my doctors that drinking large amounts of water helps flush gremlins out of the system in a general sense, STDs or not. It's hardly anything remotely like a treatment -- it's just something that aids the healing process when already using the medicine you've been given. At least that was my understanding -- but doctors being the way they are, I may have been being told this simply to improve my overall health when sick, which is fine enough by me.
Wildman -- yes, they did a urinalysis, which is where an infection was found, and it's entirely possible, given how lousy a communicator the doctor was, that it was a bladder infection. Nothing would please me more for that to be the truth, but I'm not going to presume anything further until I do my follow-up and have a good talk with him. As I mentioned, however, I hydrate like mad when in warm climates, as I've gotten seriously dehydrated once in the past and did not like what it did to the rest of my trip. The rest of the symptoms could well simply be bad street food, as I do a lot of buying from vendors (half the fun of being here.) I don't think he was unsure -- he may in fact have been being discreet since I was there with my friend and his wife. I've never had a prostrate problem, and had a full physical before I left, including the lovely prostrate exam.
Thanks for the Bumrungrad suggestion, I may indeed look into their Executive suite. As far as it goes, at this point I'm planning on a full run of STD tests here after I finish my doxy cycle, and doing the same with the tilac I'm planning to spend extended time with, as she's new to the game and more than a bit sexually naive. (Haven't had that conversation yet, though, but I've very little doubt that she'll agree.) Probably will follow up with another once I get home.
Mojo, I've agreed with you in most cases, but according to all of my reading there is as close to no risk as is defineable of HIV transmission via oral sex, even in the case where both partners have membrane damage. I do not have any such damage in my mouth, and while I acknowledge and have stated that my behavior entailed risk, I do not believe HIV infection was on the risk menu, and I know of no authority that feels it is. Saliva has consistently been shown to neutralize HIV.
Seydlitz -- I know your position on this, as you and I have had excellent critical discussions in the past. I only know what my friend stated about the girl's mother, and it would be rather indelicate to pry, especially as he spoke with great emotion about the process of watching her die. I know your position on the whole thing, and your interest in issues of definition, but this is not a situation at this point where I'm comfortable inquiring further.
For what it's worth, all, I'm feeling fine now, I intend fully to follow up and make sure I understand completely what I had and didn't have and further issues, both for my own health and for that of others. To be honest, I just felt so much like crap at the time (and had been having frustration after frustration -- net access not working, several thousand dollars not deposited into my account as promised before I left) that I just wanted something to fix it, so my analytic abilities were undoubtedly not at full force.
Skinless, you're darn right -- STDs are equal-opportunity buggers, and uneducated TGs don't come up with them like magic -- they get given them by somebody, but they, like everyone else, will believe the easiest way out in order not to have to think it. I've considered myself lucky to date to have avoided everything, and I've made my personal decisions regarding the degrees of risk I am willing to take or not take, and a patial departure from my usual practices may well have been what helped lead me down the path I followed. But if you have multiple partners, which most here do, and in an area of higher risk, you simply increase the odds you pay the piper. Given the stats I've seen in the past on the number of Thai sex workers who are infected, I'm frankly surprised that Skinless and I are really the only ones to bring it up on a personal basis at all. (I have a really hard time believing everyone on this forum scrupulously practices totally safe sex, especially given past discussions.) And if nothing else, misinformation or not, this is really the first decent discussion here on this stuff in quite some time, and I want to thank you all for your suggestions and help.
Originally posted by skinless
Joe: If he is checking out your prostate, chances are you have a bad STI itraveling up your dick even as we speak! Trust me on this one.
Drink lots of water, try some cranberry juice, nothing bitter or hot like spices. And stay away from that shit street food like you are some LP back packing moron. If there is no flowing water, only eat hot dogs on the street. But pay the extra $$ and don't be a food poisoned moron. Hey, there is a good Isaan babe selling fruit juices, 20 bt a shot, well worth it, between the nite market and the moat, all day long. Considering lots of TGs shave their pussies coz customers like to eat them (spicy food beware) chances are you are right and lotsa guys have little souvenirs. Oh. Stay sober too. No alcohol either.
Skinless -- no, the doctor here did not check my prostate; that was part of the physical I took before leaving (which I included as info in response to Wildman.) And I've reduced somewhat my street food intake, or more accurately that containing meat that's been standing -- I've got no problem with things like Pad Thai or Roti where I watch everything being cooked for me. As far as alcohol -- again, my Bangkok night was a major exception from which I've learned my lesson, and only happened because I fell in with that bar owner who insisted on buying shots of things to celebrate his girlfriend's birthday. If I go drinking, my max is generally three Singhas a night, spaced out over four or five hours with non-alcoholic spacers in between. I'd also guess I've probably hit almost every one of the little carts with fruit juices and shakes around my part of town -- I absolutely love them. If you were to see my fridge right now, you'd see ten large bottles of water, two cartons of orange juice, one of pineapple, one of cranberry, some fresh fruit, and probably two diet cokes. I'm mostly pretty simple and healthy on all this stuff, really -- my lunch today was at a restaurant, a little Thai soup and a salad and water and juice to drink. If I get sick again at this point, it's more than likely because it rained so long and so hard last night in CM that all the tuk-tuks were swamped and I had to walk home through flooded streets where the lovely brown water was mostly up to my knees... :)
Absolutely none taken -- we're all big boys here :)
Wildman,
<<<QUOTE: I think N-11 refers to the size of the condom: 11 mm? Poor Freeler
Hey! It's just a joke, OK?
wildman>>>
Your 'joke' on the size of the N-11 condom, as far as I'm concerned is :
"Deliberate Disinformation".
Maybe you could make this wrong right by stating the true size of that condom, so the readers all understand why they might want to find N-11 instead of other condoms in Thailand.
Thank you very much!
BTW What happened to your posts?
ClitSucker
12-22-02, 17:15
I am going to Bangkok with my girlfriend and we are planning on a threesome. (2 f 1 m) What precautions should I take besides the obvious condom and her (the thai girl) to give and receive oral sex?
Thanks a lot for your help guys.... Hope I can return the favour....
ClitSucker,
with all due respect, this is a stupid question.
You intend to have intercourse with a commercial sex provider. What makes you believe that there would be anything special about doing it in Bangkok ?
The usual precautions will do fine.
As one of my best friends once said:
"If I'm going to get AIDS from eating pussy, then I'm going to get AIDS from eating pussy."
Just about sums it up, don't you think?
i figured i should post a follow-up, since i blathered on around here with my travails earlier. when i got back home i had another bout with the same symptoms as when i was in los. went to my regular doctor, and he prescribed both the same doxy as the doc i saw in chiang mai, noting that both clamydia and a urinary tract infection were likely, took a [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) sample, and also gave me a shot for other nasties just in case. got a call today after i called to check on the sample -- a confirmed hit for gonorrea.
so, i'm officially on the list of the bitten or the "clapped" (though supposedly i'm also now on the list of the cured -- we'll see for sure once my follow-up sample is tested) and i'll note again that i always use a condom for intercourse, so this most likely comes from unprotected oral, either giving or receiving. (though you can get it from physical contact as well.) let me note that both times the symptoms have appeared (generally, they show up 2-5 days after exposure) was after i'd been in bangkok, and while i can be certain that's where i picked it up the first time, i cannot pinpoint things as specifically the second, as i was with multiple partners, was in and out of bangkok both times, and the symptoms can show up at different intervals. the second time it could have come either from there or pattaya. i've got a vague suspicion that i know who i got it from, as i had one partner in common both trips, but it could also have come from two different partners.
the message is simply that it's out there, and that people do catch things -- so be aware and be careful. i'm lucky enough to have gotten through it with only a few days of discomfort in both cases, but not everyone gets off so easy, particularly if you don't do the follow-up, and also if you don't have visible symptoms. i don't think this will cause me to radically change my behavior, but i may be a bit more careful my next time around the big durian.
joe_zop,
Welcome to the "clapper club".....haha..... I got that one too, and I got from unprotected oral sex (receiving end...who'd want to eat a hookers pussy!!! Yuck!). Anyways, you're right...a few days discomfort, take a pill or two and that should be it. Anyone who thinks they can't get a STD from a blow job should get their head examined. Enough said. "Wrap that willy"! Hope you're feeling better.
Perhaps the title of this section of the board is an oxymoron?
Interesting post Joe. Luckily you did not get it in the throat as that is very hard to clear. These women are walking with it; huge infection rates. I will try to be careful (this time) but it is hard to be a virgin!
Did you get one or two separate infections? Also, the dose you got seemeed to be quite benign. The BB One gave me a really bad one. See, they get infected, and keep on fucking so it gets worse. Then they pass it round (with some help obviously). This is a high risk activity and it is good to be reminded of this. Plenty of Purple Hearts here in the line of duty!!
Chikan: lotsa guys like DATY but the whole scene is risky. Also, you are somewhat complacent. Some of those strains are very resistant to pills. The pills work on the asumption we act like good ol' Joe; we take the pills, keep our dick in our pants and inform our partners etc etc. Now Joe will do all of that. But these babes will not. Every time we fuck/suck etc one of them, we are taking a BIG risk. They have no education, they want our $$ and they are not going to tell us they are giving us a souvenir.
Also, here is a philsophical question: let's say you take alady long time or for a long time as Joe did. Seydlitz and other gurus have told us that, in general, these ladies confine themselves to reading comics, talking to their friends on mobiles, watching teen TV and, of course, earning their keep by bbbjs, bonkingm oral, anal etc. Now, if we do NOT experiment, waha do we do with them besides take them shopping or shit like that. I do not want to appear mean or cruel but, bonking their brains out apart, what more can we do with them? Discuss Iraq, Michael Jordan, George Bush's state of the union address, what besised fuck and experiment. And if we are going to do that, we ARE going to catch something nasty
Skinless -- amen to the throat thing. I understand it can also difficult to clear from the eyes, which you can get by touching there after touching an infected area. As far as behavior, well, we're engaged in a high-risk activity and in LOS we're doing it in a higher-than-average risk arena. I consider myself lucky to have escaped things to this point, and I certainly can't imagine, after this, wandering around and boinking sans condom. I wonder if this is an argument for or against seeking out experienced providers -- newbies may be more naive or uneducated about their perils, but their risks of exposure are also lower. Hmm.
It appears I got it two separate times, and that's what my doctor thinks as well. He says the it's likely the first dose was cleared up and that I got a second one just before I left, based on the way my symptoms appeared. I certainly hope that's true -- I don't like the idea that I might have been wandering around with it for a couple of months. At the very least, though, my doctor assures me that even if I didn't completely get rid of the first dose, it was knocked down well enough that I wasn't wandering around infecting people, which is a relief. You may be right that I didn't get a horrific strain -- it wasn't pleasant, it wasn't something I'm looking to do again, but it was certainly bearable. Could also be that I caught it early or could be my metabolism -- I'm one of those lucky folks who never seem to get quite as sick (or as drunk) as others just because of how I'm wired. (Doesn't mean I can't whine like a baby with the best of y'all though when it happens, though!)
And you're right about the ladies -- few if any of them are going to lose income waiting for something to clear up. Even presuming they get it taken care of and take the medicine, which is a big presumption, they're still going to accept the barfines while the process is going on, and they're damn sure not going to tell us anything about it. And most of them are just going to be clueless about even why they should get it taken care of once the symptoms disappear -- I had a discussion once with a TG there about what STDs could do to her, and it took a very long time for her to even understand that being sterile didn't mean not having babies while she was on the job, it meant not having babies ever. Once she got this she was very concerned -- who was going to take care of her when she got old?
As far as your philosophical question -- and I'll risk this even though it's a bit off-topic here, as this sort of conversation has rather died out in the Thai Women section -- I think it totally depends on who you're with and what your approach happens to be. One thing I learned from spending a bit of time as a journalist years ago is that if you find the right way in, people will talk to you nonstop about just about anything, because by and large they don't get enough of a chance to talk about themselves. I've never particularly had a problem finding things to talk about with TGs I've spent a long time with -- they're usually happy to talk about how they grew up, their homes, differences in cultures, etc. If you ask them to explain a Thai situation or concept (greng jai, for example, or anything of the kind -- giving an uneducated person a chance to be a teacher can really open them up) they're usually happy to rattle on about it, particularly if you can relate it to the strange ways farang think and act as opposed to the Thais, as that can help them understand why their customers are so strange. They're often very interested in anything about how different other parts of the world are compared to Thailand -- but the connection with LOS is a must. Also, famous people, most especially good-looking famous men -- mooning over David Beckham, for example, seems universal, though interestingly doing the same over Paradorn seems 50-50. (Again, something fairly normal, I think, for young women dreaming of better lives.) On one occasion, I made fun of a TG's extreme interest in Beckham and Brad Pitt, since they're both married, and suggested she dream of Russell Crowe instead, since he wasn't married at the time. She didn't know who that was, and we had a hilarious time running to an internet cafe and tracking down info and pictures about him, who promptly went to the top of her list. (I was thanked nicely later, btw, "F**k me now, Russell" became a recurring joke.) From a completely practical side of things, I've found that expressing an interest in what she thinks about can add to the GFE and lower prices as well.
One of the reasons I stayed with my college student a long time was precisely that she could not only carry but could initiate a conversation, and she had a working brain as well as a hot bod -- it wasn't all TV or mobile, though the latter was certainly pumping a lot of the time as well, which I simply consider normal for a woman in her early twenties with lots of family and friends. (Thankfully, she had the ability to ignore it also.) She was fascinated by the books I had about Thailand, we spoke quite a bit about the workings of Thai culture versus that of other parts of the world, and she wanted to know anything I could tell her about India, Africa, etc. Discussions about price differences was a never-ending topic -- when I talked about how much money I earned she was interested and intrigued, but even moreso when I talked about how much things cost in the US compared to LOS, and how people lived. The TV she was watching was not the soaps -- she stayed up for a while until 4am simply because there was a Thai show about Muslims, Ramadam in particular. (Turns out she had an ex-boyfriend who was Muslim, but still.)
Obviously, YMMV, but I look at it this way -- most people you talk to, anywhere in the world, are focused first on themselves and their families, so why should TGs be any different? The trick is directly relating other topics to that, and not expecting big discussions on world politics, though often you can get definite insight on Thai politics and culture if you ask about it correctly.
Joe: Beckham is certainly da ma. Have you seen his homo erotic poses in his books. Talk about chasing market share.
I think it rather worrying that a smart guy like you got caught twice. STIs are endemic in LOS and it is bad we do not post more on it. The safe sex campaigns are propaganda as the girls won't reform and as for us....
I never want another does like that one I got this time last year.
I will stop here or we will get back to our mermaid discussion.They are so alluring and so fatal, for all of us and for themselves. The funny thing is AdleZ had a point all along. I'm sure you've seen the flame "war" in the Banned section. People who met NR say he's a good guy in person too. The funny thing about this board is it puts all of us together:all our differnet backgrounds, fetishes etc.
I guess Pattaya and Bkk canbe ok. You pay 2000 bt all in (shoping etc) a day and you get to swan around with a beauty. Great if that is what you want. But waht do you do after the orgy is over?
Yes, the Nibu discussion has been a hoot -- Dickhead's parody had me rolling. It, along with Z, show that people's online personas don't always reflect reality, but we can only deal with what we see and know, I guess. Same same with TGs.
As far as STDs go -- I know plenty of really smart people who died from AIDS, and history has lots of examples that prove how well the brain works means very little when it comes to the libido. Frankly, I've been incredibly lucky over the years rather than incredibly smart about things, relying on my strong metabolism (which is rather dense considering how young men are when they tend to croak in my family) -- heaven knows my drug-taking days back in the 70s weren't exactly paradigms of intelligent living. I've been fastidious about condoms for intercourse, as I've watched people suffer with AIDS and there's no way I'm at all interested in that experience. But two STD examples makes for a lesson learned, and I'll decidedly be a bit more circumspect about my behavior, at least in the higher-traffic areas such as Bangkok and Pattaya. It's the usual tough choice between the sexual acts you like and the life you want to keep living.
I do think we should be discussing this more, as I seriously doubt there are only a couple of us who've had this experience, given the overall incidence of things. But it may be like anything else online -- field reports, for example -- people may be getting, but they ain't telling. This is not exactly a topic people really want to think about as opposed to thinking about the next hottie they're going to explore, and with good reason. Heck, I'd rather think about that!
And as far as the whole mermaid thing -- I always think of the Stevie Smith poem title: "Not Waving But Drowning" as something that's extremely resonant. Them and us both. The orgy question's the same everywhere, isn't it? If you're going to spend time with someone there's got to be some kind of common ground or some area to explore or it gets old really fast. That was, of course, Z's whole assertion in a nutshell, but I guess I've just got far more in common with the poor and uneducated than him, being as I'm someone from the general range of the bad side of the tracks in the first place. I figure I can spend three or four days with just about anyone, male of female, before I get too bored, and can probably hide it or entertain myself for a couple days more, so I just don't find it all that tough to spend longer times with TGs or anyone else who's sharing my bed. Maybe it's just a matter of temperment -- I am generally bemused by life in any event, so I like to enjoy the process, good, full of disaster, whatever, if only so I can laugh about it later. As long as no one's getting hurt it's only time and/or money, and neither of those are anything to get too exercised about.
STIS: as long as some of us post, it means lurkers and others are aware of the (very considerable) risks. One of the problems of the Net is there is a lot of misinformation out there. People like us, when we escape for years, we get complacent and, then, wham. To me, it is like heavy drinking or drug taking. have a binge but move on. I posted about the Zona Roxa in Acapulco (no condoms and bring a machette) and the market in Mexico city. WTF was I doing there? Was I mad? (yes).
The whole sex scene is fascinating. Maybe we are doomed to bonk until we die. To die with our condoms on!
Here follows a quote from the KL board from a regular user. Follow ups have asked if herpes is curable. Am I the only one here into using toys and other safe sex implements on these providers?
Originally posted by monsterfacial
Sorry to be a wet blanket....but I have just been tested positive for Genital Herpes............and being a Graduate...I play very safe ...complete with condom while having sex but unfortunately it is the groin area that have contracted the Herpes infection.....
I mean read about ....the infectious nature about the Herpes virus and it will scare the pants out of you...........Waking up the next morning with suspicious blisters in the groin area is not the advertisement for the breakfast of champions...but rather the
fucked up and the most dum asses in the world....
From what i know (correct me if am wrong) from my research is that herpes is not curable. I however goes into remission and flares up once in a while. One have to be careful when it is active as you are likely to spread it by contact
Remember, the cold sores some people have on their lips is the same thing (herpes). They just travelled upstairs. So, if a person with cold sores kisses the dicks you will have genital herpes.
Be carefull, fellow *****mongers. Check out the lips when having BBBJ.
Maybe prescreening for herpes using PocKit is a solution. There is an on-going discussion
about using OraQuick and PocKit in the safe sex section (under special interests).
... herpes...
Maybe you better do some research at some medicinal oriented sites like www.herpes.org/ ?
Gentlemen: Please excuse my earlier post as i was very tired. I find it intersting (and worrying) that herpes is doing the rounds in SE Asia and that one of our top posters got it. I also find it worrying that a fellow poster did not know herpes has no cure (or bothered looking it up - but on the Thai sction, guys ask for weather tips). My point is very simple: there are a lot of infections out there and the infection rate is a lot higher among both mongers and providers than we like to think it is. Many, if not al of these women (and many men, like me), will fuck anything if the price is right. I did a rough count and I had sex with over 30 women in my latest trip. No more than 4 of them insisted on condoms. And thye were all newbies. There is a lot of misinformation on the Internet. Do not get an STI as a consequnece of that misinformation.
PurpleNGold
03-09-03, 06:46
Skinless,
Did you insist on the rain coat when the TG didn't?
What do you think? I go there to fuck them and the name implies I do have my prrejudices. Do as I preach, not as I say. The odds of catching a nasty virus are quite high in LOS. The doctor seemed unconcerend about STIs (we have medicines) but warned me against HIV (no cure). You make your own conclusions from that. Another thing is guys are just interested in posting shit (she had big tits, 9/10). most are lurkers and almost all pretend there is no risk. The risk is big and real. That I take risks does not mean you should. So far, three people have owned up to Purple Hearts. I ma sure more here got bad doses but will not admit it.
Excerpt from www.herpes.org
"Herpes is a virus that infects the nervous system, modifying the DNA of the nerve cells supplying the skin through which the virus entered. The infection is permanent. Most patients suffer from recurrences that may vary in frequency from once in a lifetime to non-stop infections that never go away. The average rate of recurrences is about four times per year, plus or minus one. Recurrences typically take about a week or so to heal. This means that the average untreated person with HI spends about a month out of the year with lesions. "
If u read my note I had said there is no cure (I should have said "permanent").
As I said, be careful.
Kekekeke asked on th KL board if it is curable. I find it very interesting that few on the KL board seem to give a shit. If MF has herpes, who else has it? There is little doubt but that the litle head rules permanently here. I am definitely going to try to change my lifestyle as fucking the scum of Thailand is not a recipe for long term health. MY problem is i am over sexed and I find pumping pussy a good stress relief.
Many of them are lovely and good people but they get 0/100 on matters of sex hygiene and we are not much better. On several occasions, I fucked women where there was a quite high risk but I fucked them anyway. It is not that MF has been particularly unlucky, just that we have been lucky so far.
Also, Duni, you are ocnfusing genital and oral herpes.
Internet orders of herpes prescreening kit:
For those of you who want to check if the girl you picked has herpes-2 (even if she is not having an outbreak), I found a web site for ordering the PocKit 10-minute test kits
http://www.bvquadro.com/phirstuse/phirstuse_buy.htm
I have not tried them yet.
Oops, wrong PocKit. Sorry.
Anyone knows how to get the real one?
PurpleNGold
03-11-03, 00:35
Anyone remember the scene in Clerks with the 'Wrigley's Chewing Gum' Guy?
Skinless, this simply shows what we all know -- the more partners you have, the more likely your exposure and/or infection. It only takes one time to be wrong, as MF's experience (and our own) demonstrates.
And if people on this board are going to display the levels of ignorance that they constantly do, what are we to expect of a sex worker off a sheltered Issan farm, for whom buying or insisting on condoms basically means fewer baht for herself?
The Thais have actually done a really excellent job in the past decade on condom education, but the problem is that it's mostly been targetted toward members of the military and getting them to wear condoms. It's reduced the rate of HIV infection, which was well on its way to terrifying, but it can be truly scary to sit down (and I say this as someone who's done this on several occasions) and have a conversation with a TG about what she does and doesn't think to be true about STDs and condoms.
PurpleNGold
03-11-03, 03:54
JZ,
As an example of the lack of understanding/education. The TG that I spent most of my time with insisted on condom use even for a BJ. This is good, but, her reasoning was that she didn't want to get pregnant. Obviously, a solid educational agenda would be a good thing for the government.
Yeah, I had similar conversations, as well as one where the TG was convinced that taking birth control pills or getting the patch would also protect her from STDs. But, honestly, I think the ignorance on this board is far more alarming -- I expect it from Third World ladies with moderate or minimal education, but presumably folks here have a bit more access to viable information...
Dear Mr Zop: you are, indeed, correct. The ignorance here is alarming in many ways.
1. We pracrice unsafe sex.
2. MF tells the truth and the lurkers attack him. If thye do not intend to screw him, and thereby risk him infecting them, they should be much more concerned with the riff raff they are bonking and abusing.
3. These women must be walking laboratories of all imaginable diseases. Not only are they uneducated but they are also very obliging. Notice the amount of them who have shaved pussies: my 600 bt bar fine + 1000 bt st er from near Nana last time round told me she shaves her pussy as so many of us like to DATY. I have noticed the little F machine from Soi 7, Pattaya now shaves her and little Lek (reminds me of a Japanese motor bike - great f engine) also shaves hers. That is coz we like to dine where others dine
So Monster Facial got herpes and Joe and Igot the clap (but not from each other). Anyone else get wounded in action? I think it would be much more beneficial to share stories about this than to talk about upset tummies and what a wonderful bbbj some dixie cup whose name we don't recall gives.
I got the clap by going bb and by letting my dick lie inside my BB lovely. I had previously been seduced by all the "risk is minimal" propaganda on the Intenret, this site included. The drips started in earnest 3 days after my tour ended and it was a very sore experience I would wish never to repeat. It took over 6 weeks of heavy medication to clean it up. That's waht I get for fucking a lady who has only her pussy and tits and kissing (GFE!) to offer me and anyone else with 1000 bt.
I took some risks this time too but am probably ok.
All I have is one cold sore and a swollen neck!
PurpleNGold
03-11-03, 08:25
Skinless, you are right about what we should be discussing here.
I don't know who MF is, but, if he got something and was giving warning to others, it's pretty fucked up to give him shit.
It would probably be a good idea if he could ID any of the ladies he's been with (names, bar, number) that way we could avoid them.
For my part, I wear a raincoat for sex and BJ. I don't dine at the Y. And, rarely DFK. I'm still scared of what I could catch.
BTW, for those of you who think that wearing a jimmy cap is 100% protection from HIV, think again. The standard for porousness is such that no more than two single cell organisms could pass through side by side. I'd quote the source, but the STD course I attended was a couple years ago, and I don't have my notes any more. But, that little factoid has stuck with me.
purplengold:
> BTW, for those of you who think that wearing a jimmy cap is 100% protection from HIV,
> think again
It's only 85% protection, compared to BB.
I posted the reference URL in the safe sex section (special interests) a couple of days ago.
Purplengold,
Well, it now s-e-e-m-s that usualy barebacking Mr. Monsterfacial contracted a fungus.
Funghii are transmitable in many ways, including the nicest way: sex.
But they can be contracted from many sources.
These sources are mainly unhygenic. Dirty towels, dirty toilets, filthy underwear...
The wounds caused by some of these funghii can take months to heal, and the blisters they cause make you think: H-E-R-P-E-S, as I know from experience.
You need the right medication and some checks for syphilis, because, as my dermotologist told me, for a doctor the difference between herpes and a fungus is clear. But fungal infections and syphilis look very similar, even to the trained eye.
Dirty toilets, Freeler????
Although we should be glad MF has not herpes, we should be glad he posted a very timely warning.
Also, Thailand, Malaysia etc are ripe for all kinds of viruses and bugs. Even Freeler picked up something last time round (infected leg).
I think I got something n my mouth but it might have been the change of air after I left LOS.
I guess some of us are addicted to this and will fuck until we have to stop. I am already planning another mongering trip, maybe more upscale and less travel. Unless I can find a nice, congenial mistress here.
Skinless,
'Dirty toilets, Freeler????'
I knew that would wake you up!
Yes Skinless, dirty toilets.
I got it in PI where the toilet bowls are so small your hanging bits go tick-tick against the side...
It took me a bit too long to adjust, got it and it took months to get rid of it.
And it gawwddammed HURT!
A fungus is a smart buggar, it lives a long time after leaving a host... and it will find a new one.
You?
I too have been in the PI. They have the filthiest toilets I have ever seen: fit only for rats and pigs. It is a miracle you are still alive. I am, however, surprised you never got a Delhi belly attack.
Any ideas what this bug I have is? Maybe a flu? I ownder if it is sex related.
Skinless,
'I am, however, surprised you never got a Delhi belly attack.'
Well, if a Delhi Belly is any kind of runs, of course I had that. But I could always find another reason for it than food.
But I never had foodpoisoning (=salmonella) in Thailand or anywhere in the tropics.
'I wonder if it is sex related.'
Ask your doctor. Don't forget to tell her that you love dining at the Y:)!
Freeeler: you are not being nice to me. Here is a question. What % of these ladies have diseased pussies, asses, mouths? I owuld reckon, based on Joe_Zop's et al's confessions (maybe he should be on Jerry Springer) very very high. Freeler: do you always practice safe sex (except in Pi toilets)> Do you just get your kicks by dressing like a rubber freak, smearing them (and you?) in ky jelly and taking te most bizarre (I won't say perverted) photos of them. What must they think of farangs ho get them to pose as flounder at a fish market? Is htat what inspired all the sushi/sashimi talk?
On a lsightly different matter: has anyone kinda bought a sex slave? I know this is off topic but I figure a long termer (not AdleZ) might have indulged. I might relocate there for some years but it would be nice to have a lady on tap to do the washing, manicure me, scrub me and fuck me whenever I felt like it. Competent cooking would be a plus. say 20 k bt a month with lodging.
Skinless,
I may not be nice to you, but you are disappointing!
Asking questions like:
'Freeler: do you always practice safe sex '
You know the answer. It is: Y-E-S I D-O !
No, I do not like the sight of my dick wrapped in rubber at all. But if I want to keep doing what I like to do, that's of course 'come to Thailand and enjoy', I know I have to.
The KY is there for the same reason.
And the photo's? Guys, Mr. Skinless is just jealous.
He can get the pussy, but never takes a shot!
Talking of photo's. Joe_zop promissed me a sample of his girls in the shape of jpegs. None have entered my mailbox to date...
'has anyone kinda bought a sex slave?'
I haven't.
But the manicure, the washing, the cocksucking, all comes with the girl if she likes you enough to ask you to stay at her room.
Last time I had this pleasure it was just B500 a day, in Pattaya. That's including the room, the sex and some drinks as well.
We went out for dinner, which I paid for, so don't call me cheap!
PurpleNGold
03-11-03, 21:50
As far as 'buying' a sex slave, I was thinking about this idea for a longer trip. I thought it would be cool to rent a nicer apartment for a month. Something in a high rise so the street noise is minimal, a jacuzzi, california king-size bed, etc.
Then, spend a few days wandering the bars looking for a few girls who would be amenable to being sex bunnies for a few weeks. Basically pay them a good rate but have rules like: only lingerie or nudity while in the house, meet me at the door when I come in and perform some sexual act as a hello, bathe and manicure me, sex/smoking on demand... Damn! I want to go back to LOS!
Figure 3 or 4 girls for about 100,000B + food/rent? Is this reasonable?
Skinless,
Remember Progman, the guy whose tripreports you didn't want in your mail?
He just wrote this on the AC board:
'Hope you get over that sore throat soon - too much DATY if you ask me.'
Now, doesn't that sound familiar?
PNG,
"100,000B'.. You just failed your first Freeler's Bargaining Course test:(!
Freeler -- spank taken, I'll try work on the photos (gotta organize them and chop them down, unless you like 8 meg jpgs.) Haven't actually checked that mailbox in a while...
General maid cost estimates, listed by the Thai government, run 6000 to 10,000baht per month for Bangkok -- it's cheaper elsewhere. So Skinless, I think you're probably reasonably close in your rates. PNG presumes paying pretty premium rates, probably what you'd get if you're planning to track them down by scouring go-gos, but in that case you'd better plan on paying barfines for all of them on an ongoing basis as well, as no TG is going to quit her job there for only a guaranteed month. A place to stay and ongoing employment obviously would keep costs lower than a one-month rental approach. That said, PNG, if you're planning to pay 25-30k per girl per month, or basically 1000baht a day, you're certainly not going to have much trouble filling your roster! Staying alive in such an environment and keeping the ladies all there, focused only on you, and getting along with each other is another matter entirely.
And as far as this topic -- the issue is whether or not people are taking risks with knowledge or not. Skinless took risks this time with clear understanding of the potential consequences, Freeler looks at the risks and decides to avoid them completely. I fall in the middle, choosing to be safer than Skinless and less so than Freeler. But all of us are doing this with knowledge of what is at stake -- people will behave in whatever ways they wish, but those who engage in unsafe behaviors based on lack of knowledge are far more dangerous, in my opinion, than those who know the risks but decide what their tolerance is toward them. The latter also know enough to know when concern is warranted, how generally to minimize their risks, and to get treated in the event there's a problem. The ignorant are generally oblivious hear-no, see-no, speak-no monkeys.
Joe,
you are right; keeping ladies locked in and ready to please is a big chalenge.
The Vietnamese emperor Tu Duc (I think in the late 18th century) had a harem of more than a hundred concubines. He once remarked that the Empire was easier to rule than the harem, with all the favorites fighting each other and meddling with politics.
He even sent a large number of them packing once...
Joe_zop,
Check your mail for a photo downsizing tip!
PurpleNGold
03-12-03, 00:14
I wasn't thinking of keeping them locked up. I was thinking more of a playboy mansion deal. The girls with me most of the time. Going out bar hopping at night... I'd be on vacation, so the only time I would leave would be so that I could come home and get the described welcome home :)
Freeler. Damn! I'll do better. But, I was thinking ~1000B/day/girl with a slight discount because of the long term opportunity. Also, I was thinking of Freelancers so that the bar-fine wouldn't be an issue. What would you say is the correct price?
Information found on this WSG site regarding the herpes test kit, "PocKit" was GREAT! However, my initial investigation and contact with the company Diagnology indicates I must find a local physician to order the kits for me. The OraQuick for HIV testing can be ordered in 25 lots directly off their web site: www.orasure.com in that quantity they are $300. or $12.00 per kit. I went to the Central Idaho District Health Center and told Sherry I was going to Thailand and she said I should probably go ahead and start the Hepatitis A, B series (second one in a month, just before I leave and last one 6 months from now then I'll be set on those for the rest of my life). Also she gave me a typhoid immunization, tetnus because it's good for only 10 years, and did another polio vaccine since the last time I had it was, as a kid. She also gave me about 50 condoms, she said they are still the best protection! Not to brag but I'll probably need more than that!!! Lastly . . . though I don't want to be mistaken for Michael Jackson, I 'm seriously considering wearing a surgical (respiratory) mask to and from Thailand on the commercial jet. Also thinking about taking sleeping pills, one of those travel neck pillows, earplugs, and try and sleep for most of the 20 hour duration flight. Lon
As I did say on the CM-thread: I will not indulge in any immunity discussion - but I guess some of you want to read this:
www.musc.edu/dc/icrebm/sensitivity.html
Zidaho
Thank you for your post. I took the liberty of copying the part about test kits to the safe sex section (under special interests) where the discussion has taken place.
If you find the test kits in Thailand, please share your experience with us.
Sabio, Philo,
Like Philo I avoid this discussion like the plague, BUT when false statistics are used, my blood boils and I can'd help myself, so:
'But there is another side to the test. Of our original one million, 990,000 are not infected. If we look at the test results on the HIV negative population (remember the specificity of the assay is 99.9%), we find that 989,010 are found to be not infected by the ELISA (true negatives -- TN), but we have 990 individuals who are found to be positive by the ELISA (false positives -- FN).'
FUCK THAT!!!
ONLY people who KNOW they have a reason to be tested get tested. NOT the others in the population of 1,000,000.
So, the entire bit between' and ' sucks and therefore the rest of the story.
A test that is 99.9% reliable is as reliable as ANYTHING gets.
My first and last 2cents on this.
Peace:)
I think the key issue in the citation is that out of the hypothetical one million tested with 1% infected, ten out of the ten thousand who are infected would produce false negatives. A false positive isn't what is the concern -- if you test positive obviously you're going to want to be retested, and confirm things. The concern is those who are told they're negative when in fact they're not, as then you open to door to potentially unsafe behavior. If .1% of the infected population is going to be missed by the test, then in Thailand, where the infection rate is in the 2% range, that means that if you gave everyone in the country a test, 1200 people who were infected would show up as ok.
That's looking at things completely on a vanilla statistical basis, and it would be very worrisome to say that there were 1200 TGs running around who'd been tested as clean who were not. The reality is different, of course. (But since the discussion has been about testing kits...)
Thailand's efforts have changed things, and improved the infection rate in the commercial sex environment, where condoms are far more frequently used than in the past. A decade or so ago 80% of all AIDS cases in Thailand came from sex workers and their clients. The most recent information I've been able to find says that the vast majority of new HIV/AIDS cases in Thailand are now husband/wife, drug users, or male-male sex, and that 20% come from sex workers and their clients.
BTW, Thailand's Health Ministry announced a couple of months ago that the infection rate among Thai teenagers, one of the high risk groups, had risen substantially over the past year, with the rate of increase rising from 11 to 17%. This runs counter to recent years, when the number of new STD cases has dropped dramatically.
Folks,
I finally did the calculation to decide which is safer: condoms or test kits. The results are in the safe sex section (under special interests).
Yes Joe, when you are looking at this 'in general' there is some cause for worry due to the numbers cited. However, as the prevalence of a disease (or chance thereof) increases in a population the chance of false negatives decreases.
As has been stated before, the best screening test has the highest sensitivity (lowest false negatives). There is no test that is 100% accurate (although if you look at the test numbers cited in Orasure's pamphlet, they got that but used pretty low number of test subjects). A test that is 99.9% accurate while not perfect does a pretty good job of screening out high risk candidates.
Of course this still belies the 'window' period where one could be infected by HIV and still not show antibody production (which is what the orasure test measures). Most people will seroconvert after 12 weeks. The '6 month' standard is the outside of the bell curve for positive test (some will seroconvert in as little as a few weeks).
Chuck Boon
08-18-03, 20:57
Can someone please tell me how I can buy some Orasure test kits? I called the Company, and they told me that they will only sell their Rapid HIV Kits to Heathcare Professionals.
originally posted by joe_zop i figured i should post a follow-up, since i blathered on around here with my travails earlier. when i got back home i had another bout with the same symptoms as when i was in los. went to my regular doctor, and he prescribed both the same doxy as the doc i saw in chiang mai, noting that both clamydia and a urinary tract infection were likely, took a [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) sample, and also gave me a shot for other nasties just in case. got a call today after i called to check on the sample -- a confirmed hit for gonorrea. ...............
j_z, all
i am sorry to say that i have picked up something, and i am heading for the farang doctor tomorrow. i do not feel exited about having sample pins stuck into my dick, so i was wondering: chlamydia can be detected from urin, is the same the case for gonohrea?
warning i think i picked it up aug 6 from a bbbj from a young girl in one of the ground floor open air nana beer bars. she only do bjs because she is 'sick in stomach. doctor say no boom boom 2 month'. it was first the day after she showed me some medicine (fuck me i did not write down the name) and she spelled from the thai paper goo-noo ..... i was too drunk to be intelligent, but now i have asked one of my friends to seek her up with a dictionary that contains the word in thai.
i do not want to ruin anyones business and will therefore speak no details: but if it turns out the worst, i shall have to reconsider bbbjs ...........
yes, a [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) test should be able to detect gonorrea, from what i understand. if i remember correctly that's all my doctor initially took, and drew blood only after i told him he might as well do the whole spectrum of std tests while he was at it. he said hiv was really the only one that he'd expect would come up there that wouldn't show up via [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109), since my hepatitus shots are current, and he didn't expect hiv since i was always protected for intercourse. but peace of mind is peace of mind.
and, yes, you can definitely get things via bbbjs -- i'm reasonably certain that's where my infections came from. i will probably still indulge, but perhaps not if i'm visiting one of the blow shops, as it seems logical to me that throat infections for gonorrea, which are supposed to be more rare, would be more likely for workers there than for your basic bargirl.
Joe_Zop
If you ever have had 3 cotton tipped pins poking your urin-tract, you wouldn't have forgotten.
Did you? Or was the urin sample all there was? (The needle for HIV does not scare me ,,,,,)
Nope -- I was lucky enough to avoid that both times, thankfully, as it would undoubtedly have been doubly painful in the condition I was in. Hope that's not the same with you, though I imagine it probably is -- I'm having sympathy pains just remembering.
philo,
ok..i'll admit it. i came back with "the clapper" (sounds funny, but it wasn't trust me). went to the doc's and this is what happened.
1) the doc. took a big *ucking q-tip and stuck it up my dink to do a swab..that was for gonorrea and yes..it really burns!
2) made me do a [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) test for chlamydia (since the two of them are usually present together). the [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) test after the swab was fun!
3) like joezop, i asked for the rest of the bloodword (syphillis (sp.), hep etc..
got a hit for gonorea. took 2 pills..can't remember what they were and the problem was gone. oh yea, got the "clapper" from a blow job too! won't be doing that again..too fucking risky!
Joe_Zop, Chikan, All BBBJ fans
Guess that gives me 50/50 swab or not ......
! GONORRHEA !
Guys, here is what your up to:
http://biodefence.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/stdgon.htm
According to this site, it can infect through towels and hand-touching-body:
www.aidsarnia.org/gonn.htm
Time to get a wife? :(
GONORRHEA
through finger-sex and french kissing ?
www.laglc.org/std/STD02.6.htm
Most of the methods you're citing here are pretty unusual, as opposed to certain types, say, of hepatitis. In order for transmission by towels and the hand, it has to be a pretty immediate sequence of going from an infected area to body or from infected area to cloth to body, since the virus dies pretty quickly once exposed to air. Similarly, sex toy transmission occurs only between partners sharing sex toys, which is going to keep most posters on this board in the safe zone, and there are other sites (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A230716 for example) that say it cannot be transmitted by kissing. My bet is that the only time that's possible is if the carrier has gonorrhea of the throat (rarer) and there's very deep french kissing to the point that the tongue touches the infected area.
I think Joe's onto something there. My doctor said that Gon. lives in the spores in the back of a girls mouth. So if she deep throats you, and she has a tiny little mouth (don't they all?), then you can get infected. I didn't ask him "So..what if she just puts the head in her mouth..could I still get it!" LOL.
As I got my test results today, detecting no clap, but an agressive fungus that I might have picked up anywhere, I feel I should remove the warning mentioning a certain girl (even if the girl was not named or otherwise easily recognizable).
(I have also learned that antibiotics against gonorhea is also used against many other infections (so that I was wrong to infer that the girl might have gonorhea because she used medication naming the disease (amongst others, I guess))).
As the original post is not editable, I quote it and WITHDRAW it here:
Originally posted by Philo
.........
WARNING I think i picked it up Aug 6 from a BBBJ from a young girl in one of the ground floor open air Nana beer bars. She only do BJs because she is 'sick in stomach. doctor say no boom boom 2 month'.
.......
I hope the girl hasn't lost any customers because of me, and wish her Chok Dee Mak Mak in her future business ..
GettingTang
08-28-03, 17:54
Not a pleasant topic to discuss, but here is my advice.
I'm a huge conusor of BBBJs. I have gotten thousands over the years from hundreds if not a thousand different WGs. I have yet to catch anything. I do take precautions. Now I'm not so naive to believe that I am invincible, or "beating the system" I know I have probably been somewhat lucky so far, I also know how to take precautions when it comes to receiving a BBBJ and here is what I do.
First I always check the girls mouth out, I don't give her a full dental exam but will often take notice to make sure she has no obvious open sores. See any cold sores you better run for the hills
Second, about 5 minutes or so before getting that BBBJ, I will drink a very large glass of water. This will mean that in about 30 minutes time, after she is done working me over, I will inevitably have to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) like a race horse. This allows the opening on your pecker to be washed out by [CodeWord112] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112) and seriously lessons the chances for the little bugs, like gonorrhea, or others to grab hold. This is scientifically documented and is affective. Not full proof, mind you, but very affective. You should try and time it so you are pissing as soon as she is done, or very shortly afterwards.
Third, I keep a small packet of very strong alcohol wipes. You can store these in a small zip lock baggy and keep them in your pocket. I will buy regular baby type wipes and soak them in some good rubbing alcohol and then put them into a zip lock bag. I wipe off my pecker and that whole area once she is done. Sure I don't do this right in front of her, as it would be offensive, but a quick trip to the restroom, [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) and wipe. I would guess by having done these steps for years now I have probably prevented myself from catching at least a few nasty things.
Some of you may find this amusing or ridiculous, but all I can say is the proof is in the pudding. I know I probably should have caught the clap or gonorrhea by now. 13 years of mongering on almost a daily bases, or at least every other day in the states. With probably well over a thousand different girls, having given me BBBJ and still to have not caught anything using this method is proof enough for me!
Things I never do, is anal sex or any kind of fu*cking without a condom. I love doing DATY, but will NOT do it on working girls. Too much risk. I will have them lie back open their legs and massage them with both hands, one on the clit, the other inside her, but no mouth action. I usually can get most girls off this way, but I have lots of practice. Two fingers massaging the G spot another on her clit gets them off 90% of the time! DATY is bigtime risky!
HAVE FUN, BUT YES, YOU DO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL!
GETTINGTANG~!
Hi bros! This is my first post so first I wanna thank all the members for the great reports and Jackson for the work. I am going to Phuket for the first time next week and I would like to know something about the test kits you were discussing about. Do I get them in Thai pharmacies? How do they work and how reliable are they.
Which sexual practics would you rather not try with a BG in order not to get the HI virus?
Thanks for your reply and I will report when I´m back!
Bottom line is simple -- condom equals no HIV. No real worries with BBBJ about HIV, though as we've discussed you can get some other nasties that way. I don't care how good the kits are, as I've never used them, but going bareback is still the main risky behavior -- even if the TG tests negative for HIV, such a kit doesn't guarantee no hepatitis, syph, clap, herpes, etc.
Zero Charisma
09-15-03, 02:04
"I keep a small packet of very strong alcohol wipes. You can store these in a small zip lock baggy and keep them in your pocket. I will buy regular baby type wipes and soak them in some good rubbing alcohol and then put them into a zip lock bag. I wipe off my pecker and that whole area once she is done." Getting Tang
GT,
I also clean my whole pelvic area with alcohol wipes after any kind of action. Herpes can be caught through the skin, condom or no condom, so its a precaution against that.
As far as the gonorrhea, the clap etc are concerned, I always use a condom for BJ and FS so I never have to worry.
0C
Atlanta Monger
09-15-03, 08:40
Tang,
Great advice, especially the portable alcohol wipes. Hadn't thought of that, but will certainly become a staple now.
Anybody have any DATY tips (no, not HOW to do it, lol) for safety - I've heard of using a dental dam or saran wrap, but haven't tried either. Both sort squash the GFE mood, I'm guessing. I'm an eatin' kind of guy, but really don't want to take extra risks while mongering.
MM
The Traveler
10-18-03, 08:33
GettingTang
Do you wear any kind of gloves when masturbate her ?
Since everybody has countless unnoticed microscopic small wounds at the fingers you should be aware that the way you practice it comes close to do it with your pecker without a condom.
Have fun
GettingTang
10-18-03, 09:43
Traveler be real.
First people do not have "countless" microscopic cuts on your fingers. Cuts on ones fingers that might be that small heal and close to outside expose extremely quick.
The penis is lined with very thin skin and the blood vessels are extremely close to the surface. The head of the penis also has something fingers don't. It's called a urethra. It's your dick head opening, [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) hole. The inner lining on the tip of you dick is an open source right into your blood stream! Much different then using your fingers. Now sure, I would not go sticking my finger up inside a girls snatch with an open cut, but please, lets be realistic. Barring an open and noticeable wound on your fingers, the likelihood of HIV transmission from fingering a girl is non existent.
DATY in my opinion is dangerous. The mouth is a very fragile place on the human body. It bleeds more regularly then any other location on the body. gums are also very thinly lined with blood vessels close to the surface. The tongue can also act as I direct link and be absorbent much like the urethra of the penis. It can go right into ones blood stream. For this reason, I never perform DATY on any working girl. I have also decided to keep my BJs covered. As recent data is now suggesting, HIV can more easily be transmitted this way then previously had been thought.
I always assume there are some girls out there who might actually intentionally try and transmit you the virus, due to being enraged about their own infection. They view you, the monger, as the reason why they are infected. I have seen it before and it is real. It's a dangerous world out there, one must protect themselves and be careful.
GETTINGTANG~!
The Traveler
10-30-03, 21:41
GettingTang
I don't want to start a discussion about this. Do as you like.
But you have to admit, that manicure e.g. - and I guess you do it on a regular basis - produces small wounds of your skin when you remove it (at the bottom of your fingernails). Furthermore I had cut my hands a thousand times at a sheet of paper or somewhere else without even knowing it. Just saw it later on.
Sure, wounds will close, but do you check your hands every time before masturbating a girl ? Furthermore you are mentioning that the skin is thinner at certain parts of a body, so do you agree that the skin will also be thinner at a freshly closed wound of any size ?
If you doubt what I say, why not ask a doc who is specialied in HIV. He/she should know if this is a possibility for transmission.
Have fun
but be careful
The Traveler
10-31-03, 21:17
GettingTang
One more suggestion :
Would you touch a positive HIV blood sample with your bare hands, no gloves ?
Due to your comments, you will, since your skin is protection enough.
If not, please tell me how you make sure that your chick doesn't got her period (asking her, uh ?) or that your fingernails won't hurt her inside. Maybe she already got a small wound from her last bonk some 30 mins ago or from some deep penetration.
You better be real.
Think about it
Pardon my ignorance guys, but I've been told that the HIV/AIDS problem in Thailand is now well under control. Apparently the Phillipines is the next hotspot for the virus. The Fillipinos are staunch Catholics and their bishops actively lobby for people not to use condoms. A couple of my friends take the chance going bareback in Thailand these days, but a lot of the girls usually turn them down. I think the message has got across to the majority of women in Thailand that sex w/o a condom is a big no-no. Having said that our experiences come only from Phuket and Hatyai. I'm not sure what the situation is in Bangkok. As I told my friends, all it takes is a little bad luck and, BANG, your life is over. Still they don't listen. Their lives I guess.
Ok Team,
Listen up, Remember Thailand is one of the Aids capitals of te world.Noone can give us an accurate report on all bar girls. Even if aids died down. It only takes one poison pill to ruin your life. These girls are with maybe 5 different guys a day. When you go to thailand how you look makes a difference with how much you pay and what you can do to the girl. I was in Thailand in October and was with probally 25 girls. I would say with about 20 of them if I went bareback they would not care. I even tested and teased them and they had no problem with this. I of course would never go BB in Thailand. I am a young guy and I do believe alot of them were attracted to me. But you never know what to believe in Thailand. I think if you are not that attractive girls will not want BB. If your cute enough you can seduce it out of them just like any girl. When I was in Thailand I would pass up maybe 300 girls to find just the one I want. I noticed many guys take the first girl that looks at them. I was also shocked that guys will sleep with these woman no matter how unhealthy they look. BB blowjobs are extremely dangerous. I had friends that ran into alot of problems. Becareful guys so this trip is not your last trip.
In the news today:
(At first I wanted to post this in the General section, but I've got the feeling it belongs here, in the Safe Sex department:).)
Sex and jealousy
A 21-year-old man and four teenagers were arrested in Din Daeng district after a quarrel in which they hurt a 52-year-old woman they had sex with.
Din Daeng police on Friday nabbed Thawatchai Cheuychan, 21, and four teenagers aged 15-17 (names withheld) in a rented room in Soi Pracha Songkhroh 27 after they quarrelled and caused injury to Ratri (surname withheld), 52, early Friday morning.
Police said Mr Thawatchai had sex with Mrs Ratri, his girlfriend, and allowed the four teenagers to join in, but he later became angry and jealous. Mr Thawatchai hit his girlfriend and the last boy, 15, on their heads while they were having sex.
The teenagers had yet to be questioned by police in the presence of prosecutors, social welfare officials and parents.
With all due respect, ChiMan II, I think you're dramatically overstating things by calling Thailand "one of the AIDS capitals of the world" and that is a rather dated perspective. The HIV infection rate in Thailand, according to UNAIDS 2002 statistics, is 1.8%. It's worth noting that only a third of the adults infected are women. The overall infection rate of sex workers in urban areas is 6.7% (much higher in rural areas, so Freeler et all, en garde!) which compares very well with lots of other countries where stats are available. Most HIV infections in Thailand these days are coming from infected male Thais having unprotected sex with their regular partners, usually wives or gay men.
Compare this to say, the Central African Republic, which has an infection rate of 12.9%, Kenya, (15% rate, 27% among sex workers) Benin, (3.6% rate, 40% infection rate for sex workers) Cambodia, (2.7% rate, 26% infection rate for sex workers) Haiti, (6.1%) the Dominican Republic, (2.5%, though lower than LOS among sex workers -- about 4%) or the Bahamas (3.5% overall rate.) Even Brazil and China, which have a lower overall rate, still have substantially higher rates for sex workers -- over 17% and 10% respectively. And there are others in Africa which are far, far worse. (All stats from the above source.)
The truth is that a monger is generally at far more risk going anywhere in Africa or to most places in the Caribbean than to Thailand. While no one can give a girl-by-girl report, one can get a pretty solid sense of things by looking at the rates listed at http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/Map11table.html (current as of June) which breaks down the HIV infection rate of Thai sex workers by city. For example the HIV infection rate among sex workers in Bangkok is 2.6%, Chiang Mai 8.7%, Phuket 9.25%, Philok (for Freeler and Skinless) at 7%, Korat 4.6%, and Pattaya at a bit over 11%. This is at least a bit of an argument for mongering in the Big Durian!
Obviously, I'm hardly advocating bareback, as that's still risky idea, but let's at least keep the facts in mind.
Joe_zop,
"The overall infection rate of sex workers in urban areas is 6.7% Freeler et all, en garde!"
Et all?
Another little joke, I presume.
And you know damn well I always cover up.
Lots of towns near BKK have very high rates of infection, as do cities in the South (muslim...) and the North-West (tribal areas...).
Am I glad I didn't stick my privat parts in any one up in Phrea... 82%hiv-infected!!!???
Yes, two little jokes as of course I know you always play it safe, and you've lamented before the lack of adventuresome mongers who head out and explore. I doubt such stats will encourage that, unfortunately. And absolutely, Phrae seems like the place to avoid, (along with Nan) though you gotta suspect a rather small sample there, don't you think?
Joe et al: I don't think these figures mean very much at all. The level of education/knowledge about STDs is very low and doubt has to be placed on all surveys/samples involving the ladies of the night and semi literates (and sad mongers like all of us). My experience is most hos (and mongers) will take the chance to go skinless. The Thai government has a vested interest to pretend HIV rates are lower than what they are. Although there is a thriving gay/bisexual/IV drug use culture, caution is still advised. Pattaya and similar places have to be major HIV/STD reservoirs: just look at all the commercial bonking going on there. Also, what puts Phrae up in the top league infection wise? Is there something different in the air or dicks there?
Vested interests, academic and otherwise, have been doing these bs HIV surveys for a long time now. There is little new, novel or informative in them.
Us tourists are very much needed to help the Thai economy. If the sex industry dies down because of an AIDS scare this will hurt Thailand economy severly. It is in the goverments best interests to cover things up and try to keep things on the up and up. From my experience Thai woman worry more about money than STDS. People that experience Thailand will tell you it is no holds barred. It is just better to go there with the mind frame Aids is very big here. If you go there with the mind frame Thailand doesn't have that much std's then you are more likely to take chances and risks. How many places can you sit down at a bar and the girl begs you to pay her bar fine and sleep with her?
Points taken, Skinless, but at the same time most of these stats from Thailand these days come from hospital testing, and there's been a huge amount of work in LOS on testing -- I remember reading about several researchers there who were working hard on really, really inexpensive and reliable kits. The overall number of those infected does appear to have gone down in Thailand, partly because there's been a massive amount of deaths in recent years. (And the rates of new infections appear to be rising slightly in the last couple of years, though not among sex workers.)
I'd say the high rates in Phrae (and Nan, etc.) make a lot of sense, given that the rates have always been higher in the north, and brothel workers have also tended to be higher. And while there's a lot of commercial bonking going on, let's face it, most western mongers actually are condom-conscious for the most part. The existence of this thread is testimony to that.
I absolutely agree with you that many, if not most, sex workers will go skinless. We obviously all need to at least presume this to be the case for our own safety.
And can you name me anything in the world that doesn't have a vested interest? We've all got to take our information from somewhere or another, and UNAIDS and the Census Bureau are at least not completely fly-by-night.
Joe: Was the fact that brothel owners in the 80% infected areas did not pay their bribes on time a factor?
Skinless,
Ha Ha, I liked your report. I agree with you 100%. In my opinion what makes Thailand so dangerous is this. You meet a beautiful girl. She tells you everything you want to hear. She does not at all seem like a hooker which throws you off guard. You spend your evening drinking with her. Some of these girls are so sweet and full of love you actually start to like this girl. She looks at you with those beautiful eyes and that sexy smile. She just got out of the shower and she smells like soap. She smells so clean and she is only 18 she probally hasn't been withthat many people, lol. So you think. Plus, 95% of the men with them are drunk from drinking all night. Alot of these guys are not good looking and never had an experience with such a beautiful sweet girl. No girl this hot ever paid so much attention to them. Do you really think the average drunk joe will care to put a condom on? Everyone agrees that to go bareback with the girls is not a problem. So you do the math. Thailand is paradise but it is also an illusion. It would be nice thought that all these drunk guys would not like to cum in these angels. This will not stop me from going to Thailand every year but I am just extra careful.
Chiman,
In fact a great many Thai girls do insist on condoms. I should know as I prefer to go without. I've had several girls walk out unpaid rather than go bareback. True, many will aquiesce to a request for bareback, but most try to persuade the customer to use a condom, and quite a few refuse condomless sex entirely. Not that this means much to your debate - I'd agree that some paid sex in Thailand is covered, some isn't - but my point is that as often as not its the Thai girl who's pushing the condom, not the customer. Of course I only do short-time so maybe if you like to take the girls overnight they're more cooperative.
Everyone agrees that to go bareback with the girls is not a problem.
I've not heard that said by anyone here, regardless of belief about the actual HIV/AIDS rate. Skinless and I have both confessed to catching STDs in LOS. If you're hearing that going condomless is safe, then it's time to hang out with different "everyones."
Joe Zop,
I think what was meant is "to go bareback is not difficult to get if you want".
Let's have it repeated once again: unprotected sex is dangerous, even more so with a paid sex provider.
STDs happen that way, and so do unwanted pregnancies (a much underrated psychological misery endured by many Farangs).
This being said, TGs have a carefree if not careless attitude about pretty much everything in life. That is part of their Thainess. This includes a relatively low importance given to any precaution, including condoms.
Never count on the lady to enforce safe sex practices; In Thailand, she might not do it, or no consistently. (Consistency is another dirty word in Thai).
hey gang,
when i said we all agree getting bareback is not a problem i meant getting it. i did not mean it is safe. getting it though depends on what you look like. if the thai girl likes you and or is attracted to you it is very possible. if you are overweight or not attractive to the thai girl i think it will be harder. thai women do what they want as long as they are having fun. i would like to ask opebo a question. o**** did you ever catch any std's or have any negative experiences to share with us about going bareback? i would like a section added to the forum about negative experiences with std's to the forum. i think it would save lives. i will share one. i went to a san francisco massage palor. a nice 26 year old vitnam girl gave me a bareback blowjob. the following day i broke out in white hives all over my body. i went to the doctor and he asked my if i been to asia? anyway, he gave me a shot and i was better in two days. that was the last time i ever got a bareback blow from a working girl.
I have a question about anal sex with Thai girls. What percent of the time do the girls bleed? I wouldn't enjoy the experience of blood everywhere. Anyone with experiences I would like to hear.
Thanks
The Traveler
12-09-03, 00:32
chiman ii
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what percent of the time do the girls bleed?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i guess you are not talking about their period.
why should they bleed at all ?
use lots of ky jelly or another lubricant, go soft and slow and everything will be fine. the hardest part is to convince them that you won't hurt them, cause most of them already tried or want to try it, but had bad experiences or heard many negative comments from friends. too many men seem not to care about the girls feelings and what they scare.
so again, soft and slow with lots of lubricant, you might speed up later on if you and she ! likes.it
have fun
Amen, and jeez, c'mon already -- we're not talking about some weird species just because they're Thais, we're talking about women! If they're bleeding during anal sex you're doing something wrong! (And if the woman is bleeding she's probably the next one telling her friends what a negative experience it is.)
I swear, (and I'm sorry ChiMan II, as I'm not intending to pick on just you) sometimes posts here sound like they're coming from people who have never had sex in their entire lives.
Chiman II,
I have a lot of anal sex with Thai girls. I try to only take girls that will provide this service. In my experience they rarely bleed if you use lots of KY. The few occasions that I noticed bleeding or a bit of uncleanliness were usually when I got extremely deep and rough. But then again plenty of girls can take this and there's nothing but KY to be seen. Another poster made the point that there's no big physical difference between Thais and other women. Just like everywhere, most won't do it, and out of the few that do, only a minority can really take it the way it was meant to be done.
More apropos the 'safe sex in Thailand' angle - I admit that as a confirmed barebacker the bleeding issue is one of concern. Personally in the 90% of cases where there's no bleeding at all I consider anal sex with copious amounts of KY to be safer than vaginal - none of her juices involved.
Hi Joe,
It is not uncommon at all for women to bleed during anal sex. I had two girlfriends that had this problem when we tried it. I haven't had alot of girls that were up for this so maybe I am wrong? I am still researching. ha ha
The Traveler
12-09-03, 20:04
ChiMan II
I am with Joe Zop, if the girl declines, DO NOT try to force her. DO NOT try to do it if she is not relaxed. And again, soft, slow and lots of KY jelly.
I am also Opebo, I can hardly remember any case when a girl was bleeding. Give her time to relax and everything will be fine. Take your time, no need to rush.
Have fun
Maybe it's the approach, Opebo and ChiMan, but I've had a fair amount of anal, and I've absolutely never had a woman bleed from it. I don't tend to be rough at all, (though with some women who are relaxed and experienced going deep and hard is fine) since I'm well aware it can cause damage and I've no desire to do that to someone who's giving me something so many others decline to do. I don't simply cornhole a woman who's willing but inexperienced without a substantial amount of preparation. Not to mention the fact that causing bleeding means everything goes up on the safe sex risk-meter.
Opebo, sorry, but you're in fool's paradise if you're going bareback anal, which I'm sure you really know and obviously just don't much care about. (The good old "can't happen to me" syndrome.) There's absolutely no evidence I'm aware of that "copious amounts of KY" does anything to prevent infection other than cutting down on bleeding -- sacrificing a chicken probably has about the same preventive effect in terms of keeping infection from entering via the tip of your cock when your partner is bleeding despite the lube. The woman's secretions have nothing to do with it when you're talking HIV: it's about the blood, and that 10% of the time, according to your own estimate, that there's bleeding, is simply exposure-city for you. Do us all a favor and post pics of the girls you're having bareback anal with, so we can avoid them.
FWIW, I tend to like Astrolube rather than KY, as I find it both more slippery, easier to apply, and more dependable. It is also simply handy to have around for regular sex.
Travis Bickle 2
12-10-03, 02:48
Hi Guys,
I just had to jump in on this safe anal sex and bleeding discussion.
There is no safe unprotected anal sex. Period. Regardless of how much lubrication you use there is going to be some bleeding in almost 100% of all cases.
The anus is lined with extremely delicate blood vessels. Even the slightest penetration will cause these to break. You may not notice any blood but trust me there will be small microscopic tears in the anal lining which make a perfect conduit for transmitting the virus. This is why the virus spread so fast through the gay community.
Opebo, Can I possibly interest you in a safer hobby, say perhaps Russian Roulette with only a couple of bullets in the chamber? Get real dude. Most 5-year-olds in the year 2003 know that unprotected anal sex with a Thai hooker is attempted suicide. But hey, I'm not here to preach, just inform.
Live Long and Prosper,
Civ2000
I'll like to second (or third) the comments about lubrication and going real slow to start, especially with a girl who is new at it.
A sure way of making it certain that the girl does not get into anal is to make it hurt.
To me, nothing is better than a chick who 'enjoys' anal (yes, they are out there!).
Vaginal lining = very thick = less tears
anal lining = very thin = frequent tears
You don't have see blood to be exposed
Having said all this:
How do you "find and confirm" ( or ask) whether the girl will do anal (other than that infamous yellow line):
BJ = smoke
BBBJ = ??
Anal = ??
CIM = ??
Can these be had from any of the go gos or bars? Any differences between BKK and Pattaya with regards to above services?
JZ,
Please check your PM.
Joe Zop, Civ2000,
You're quite wrong about anal being riskier than vaginal for the penetrator. The higher risk is for the receptive partner. Hiv is found in vaginal secretions as well as blood and semen. Its also worth remembering that in most hiv positive people - those who are in the long 'dormant' stage between initial infection and aids - have very low levels of hiv in any of these bodily fluids.
As for the KY issue - I'm only going by a spate of news articles I read a few months ago about studies showing that KY and the like 'killed hiv'. The studies suggested that water-based lubricatants were an environment that was not easy for hiv to live in or pass through.
Lastly, circumsizion makes one much less pervious to hiv infection. Considering all these factors, I'm not in the least worried.
I have 2 questions I hope someone can answer.
1. Is there a HIV test kit sold in Bangkok that gives results in 30 minutes or is that a bad rumor.
2. Can anyone recommoned a good STD clinic in Bangkok what are the prices for tests.
Opebo,
"The studies suggested that water-based lubricatants were an environment that was not easy for hiv to live in or pass through."
This seems a bit odd to me. The human body is about 80% water and HIV loves it...
Everybody just rubber up, ok?
Well, Opebo, your logic is non-existent here. Whether the risk is higher for the receptive partner or the penetrator isn't really the point -- the point is that according to your own statement the women you're cornholing are bleeding 10% of the time. Blood, whether in the ass or pussy, puts you at risk. Yes, they're more at risk (much more, based on your behavior, which greatly increases their chances of catching anything you have) than you are. Women are always more at risk for STDs, regardless of the type or activity, than are men. Again, that's not really the issue here. (But I can point you to any number or citations that say that the single riskiest behavior is unprotected anal sex.)
Please cite a concrete source for the statement about lube, and I'll be happy to believe you. I have read extensively on this subject, and just did a web search as well. I've seen or found absolutely nothing that claims that water-based lubes, and in particular KY, manage to kill HIV. Everything I've seens talks about these lubes in combination with condoms. Now, some lubes might contain Nonoxynol-9, which does directly kill HIV, but KY does not. And the studies now considered authoritative say Nonoxynol-9 causes irritation, and thereby increases rather than decreases the risks of infection.
There's not a single authority that I'm aware of that says you're safe barebacking using your approach, so you may not be worried, but you're hardly safe. The percentages I've seen cited say that the risk of HIV transmission to a receiver during unprotected anal sex is 15 in 1,000 versus 3 in 10,000 from a receiver to a penetrator. Those might be fine odds for you, but they're not for me.
Joe Zop, Freeler
Ever heard the phrase, "like talking to a dead man"? Sadly, I fear that speaking to Opebo fits all too aptly.
Tatoosh
Travis Bickle 2
12-11-03, 23:41
o****, no one here ever said that hiv doesn't exist in vaginal secretions. i wouldn't have unprotected vaginal sex without a condom either. but there is always blood contact in anal sex which does make it riskier. you make it sound like there is no risk of a man contracting hiv. tell that to magic johnson and the countless number of straight men who have contracted hiv. heck, if i can bareback anal a sw, then what can't i do? i cringe when i hear comments like yours. the world and all responsible mongers are trying hard to stem diseases like hiv, syphilis, and others and then you have guys like your self spreading disease and mis-information. i like joe zop's idea of having you post the pictures of the gals you've barebacked so we can avoid them. in fact, read joe's most recent report. he's obviously someone who has done his homework and knows what he's talking about.
civ2k
"Regardless of how much lubrication you use there is going to be some bleeding in almost 100% of all cases."
I've had anal sex at least 400-500 times. Have yet to see a drop of blood. If a woman is visibly bleeding, you are doing something wrong.
"Lastly, circumsizion makes one much less pervious to hiv infection"
Really? And where does this little nugget of wisdom come from?
Hi there,
I am a newcomer to the scene. I have been with pros in Canada and always try to get daty with them. It works about 30 percent of the time. What are the risks or doing this in Thailand? I have recently tested for all std's and came clean. This is after years of "swinging" bareback activity in Canada (dp's and all). I feel blessed to have come out of that era without a disease. I am into covering up for all activities except oral both ways. Is there much of a risk with Thai? and Viet and Cambodians? I am also into rimming them. Thoughts?
EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to remove the multiple periods at the ends of sentences. To avoid future delays, please use just one period followed by a space at the end of sentences in future reports. Thanks!
Ok, I'll respond, though I think there's no settling this type of argument - we just have different priorities
Joe Zop -
I think the distinction between you and I is our definition of 'safe' - you mentioned a 3 in 10,000 chance. I have no idea if that is accurate but it sounds very low-risk to me. Some people look for gaurantees in life, others just for good odds. I'm one of the latter. I drive a motorbike in Thailand and consider that much higher risk (and less fun) than bareback sex. What clinches it is that for me condom-sex is really in no way enjoyable or preferable to staying home and masturbating.
On the lube issue - yes nonoxonol-9 is bad news, I know. Have never used it. But plain water-based lubes do greatly reduce the risk. This type of web search is difficult because one gets literally thousands of sites containing instructions about the use of 'water based lubricants' with 'condoms' - just the standard line. I could only find one reference -
http://www.google.co.th/search?q=cache:LK2H4jK6BAcJ:www.salon.com/sex/feature/2002/01/16/lubes_hiv/+hiv+study+transmission+%22lubricants+can+prevent+%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
I remember the things I read previously (on Yahoo News I believe) seemed to attribute the beneficial effect to water based lubes in general - this article stresses the preferability of Astroglide and a couple of others. Anyway, take it for what its worth. I mainly use them to reduce potential for abrasion and the risks that entails.
Civ1000-
Why do you want pictures of the girls I've barebacked? If you're practising 'safe' sex then it shouldn't matter if the girl you're with has taken risks or has something. I imagine the vast majority of them have taken lots of risks, and not with me - rather with Thai boyfriends who are a lot more likely to give them something than I or any monger. Relax, you're at no risk at all with your condoms, either of getting anything or having any first-rate sex.
Nailr - Check the posts below for this subject. In summary, the answer is NO; it is NOT safe to be engaging in condomless sex (oral or not) with these women or for you to be eating them out! The Clap is apparantly quite rampant in BKK and Pattaya and why stick your tongue somewhere where 15 mins. previous some guy shot his wad in her?
Don't ruin a holiday because of a few moments of stupidity and / or drunkness. Wrap that willy! Play safe and stay safe! Cheers!
PS. Even up here in Canada, you're taking quite a risk engaging in that activity with them....good you got tested and you're ok.
Nailr,
I have two very good friends who now have a herpies of the mouth because of eating hookers out. But have fun anyways and let us know what happens.
Chikan,
Thanks for the advice, though it really it isn't what I want to hear. You are right about covering up at all times and most likely I'll try to refrain from daty, we'll see. I have read some of the reports on this subject and am shocked to see guys on here who will have anal sex with these girls uncovered. It doesn't take a genius to know that's suicide, of perticular was one poster who said some very sadistic things about making them bleed. That made me sick.
Silly Puppy
12-13-03, 17:35
I can tell all of you that I've never seen such a dummy like Opebo or similar guys. This guy is too much, his logic is like a ten-year old kid who has no knowledge whatsoever about how bad the AIDS epidemic is. He is now going around spreading his infected semen to poor girls in third world countries. He doesn't think about the welfare of these human beings and thus showing how cruel he is! Hey be mature! Man, how I despise him.
Nailr,
Your dilemna reminds me of something a good friend said to me long ago, which is: "If I'm going to get HIV from eating pussy, then I'm going to get HIV from eating pussy." In other words, NOTHING was going to stop him from his favorite activity - DATY. All I can say is I wish you the best of luck in your resolve to refrain from DATY. I am also a huge fan of the activity, and I simply do not have the discipline to keep from doing it, even when I know it's not a good idea. I will ALWAYS wrap up for the main event- that goes without saying - but I simply find it impossible not to go down on a girl who really turns me on, hooker or not. I can't resist it. I love it that much.
Rabo Verde
12-13-03, 22:51
BLEEEEECH! I would rather lick the toilet! LOL
I know you can't get hiv from oral sex, unless you are a vampire, but this Thailand not Romania so I'm not worried. It's a blood exchange that causes it. So, maybe I will get the klap, but that is also rare for oral. My first trip abroad and you are right, if the chick is hot nothing will stop me from tasting that sweet ass and pussy, escpecially if I am wrecked.
I've had a klamidia test before and have friends in Canada who have had it, it's not so bad. Some antibodies and you'll be fine. I don't think I would be able to help myself. I'll always have the girls take a shower before, with me doing the cleaning. To get rid of the flavour of nations. Burning [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) for a month is acceptable to satisfying my desire for an insatiable 2 weeks.
"Kiss a toilet". That's not too far from the truth when you think about the fluids and bacteria. Except one is a sensual and beautiful humanbeing and the other is pure pourcilan, in Canada anyways. The UN says we have the best toilets in the world.
ChiManII,
That is actually the one thing that scares me...herpes.
i have 2 questions i hope someone can answer.
1. is there a hiv test kit sold in bangkok that gives results in 30 minutes or is that a bad rumor.
2. can anyone recommoned a good std clinic in bangkok what are the prices for tests.
o****,
do not underestimate the effects of herpes, syphillis gonerrea in the practice of bareback bangin it is best if you settle in with one girl otherwise do the right thing wrap it up. do it for the girl. do it for the community. most of all do it for yourself.
Opebo, I agree there's no settling the argument, though I'd say part of that is because if someone simply chooses to ignore all the best medical advice and insist something is safe, it's not really an exchange of information that can lead to changes in points of view, it's an expression of a faith or pure belief. To me, a 1 in 3300 chance is a pretty lousy one -- I've certainly had more sex than that, which would mean the odds are I'd be infected.
As for the motorcycle argument, well, duh! The odds even in the US are about 1.5 in a hundred that you'll be in an accident in any given year riding a motorcycle -- and Thailand has pretty much the highest accident rate in the world. That's hardly a worthwhile comparison -- though I'd frankly rather go through a cycle accident than AIDS, thank you very much.
Still, to use your comparison, I'd say the point is really simply this -- you can radically reduce your odds of being in a fatal cycle accident by wearing a helmet. Same same with HIV/AIDS. You call not doing either an acceptable risk, fine for you. I call it being unnecessarily irresponsible, and putting other people at risk.
As far as the photos go, it's very simple -- I'd avoid the girls you've been with as they clearly engage in higher-risk activity, and therefore are more likely to have caught something. Condoms break, shit happens, and if you're dealing with someone who engages in safe sex you improve your odds considerably simply because the odds go down that they've got any STDs. Since there are so many TGs who are available, I'd simply choose to choose someone else. Doesn't keep me from getting laid or having my fun, just means I've got less to worry about.
Since you're an adult it's your right to take whatever risks you want. I wish you absolutely nothing but luck, because apparently that's the only thing keeping you safe so far!
Joe Zop,
I find this discussion of probabilities fun. Lets say the likelyhood is 1 in 3300 - about .0003. And lets say 25% of TGs are infected - probably wildly high.
.0003 X .25 gives us .000075 per sex act.
Assuming one sex act per day on average, and say 4 months per year in Thailand gives us 120 sex acts per annum.
.000075 X 120 = .009 annual risk. (or .9%).
So let say I'm the typical 40 year old hobbyist. How many years do I have left. Well, 100% certainty is 1.0 so 1.0 = .009(x)
1.0/.009 = about 111 years till 100% risk, or 'certainty'. Tack on another four years for it to do you in, and this 40 year old high-stakes gambler of a hobbyist is cutting life short to a mere 151 years. Sad really. Why couldn't he 'act responsibly'?
Of course I actually know almost nothing about math so I would welcome input from anyone who does. My 'common sense' reaction to odds or probability is that they 'reset' with each winning hand. For example if this hypothetical 40 year old hobbyist has lucked out up till now, his risk is back to .0003 with that next sex act on his 41st birthday. That would actually reduce the risk - I believe if anything the above analysis overstates it.
Anyway, a more apt comparison wouldn't be wearing a motorcycle helmet but say never leaving one's house or avoiding showers for fear of slipping on the soap - 'safe sex' is that absurd.
Under what logic do you think the odds "reset" after each act? That might works for straight probability on coin flips, but I don't see how its application is relevant here.
Here's another way of looking at your "logic" using precisely your same mathematical approach: at any given point, there are probably well over 3300 mongers in Pattaya alone. (Let's just use that number cause it works easily; it's probably low, and there are certainly other places than Pattaya.) The most recent HIV infection rate reported in for sex workers in Pattaya is 11%. If all of those mongers are barebacking, then there's a 11% chance on any given day that one of them is getting infected. That means over forty would be getting infected each year. If I want to look at it in the opposite direction, and presume that 1% of all these barebackers are HIV positive, that would mean (according to the 1 in 50 rate for receivers) that about 20 sex workers would be infected each month by those 3300 mongers, or well over 200 in a year.
Somehow, looking at it that way, I don't find your dismissal of safe sex all that comforting. The bottom line in LOS is that it was the increase in condom use -- not any other change in behavior -- that was responsible for radically reducing the climbing rate of HIV infection during the 90s. A similar process seems to be occuring in Cambodia as a result of government campaigns there. I challenge you to find any even quasi-authoritative alternate explanation for that.
Globo:Get checked at at Bumassgrad Hosital on Soi 3. Very good, complete STI checks. Lots of STIs in Thailand - told that by the doctor at the hospital. And as both Joe Zop and John Skinless are purple hearts (wounded, or diseased in action) we cna speak from bitter experience. My name is John Skinless but I know I am playing a crazy game. Just be careful about all the bareback propaganda: the problem with the Intenret is it is too easy to post dangeroulsy misleading bs.
Swiss Tiger
12-16-03, 17:03
Opebo
I wonder if your theory on probability is correct. If it is then I suggest you look at the way you "play" in a different light.
Perhaps this might help:
If 11% of sex workers are infected with HIV (we discount all other diseases here for the moment even though there are over 8+ STD's you can catch!) and this means that for every 10 girls you bearback more than one will be HIV positive!
If a girl said to you, "I am HIV pos and would like you to fuck me in the ass bear back" would you still do it?
Ignorance is bliss huh?
By the way, "when" you do catch HIV and develop Aids, will you tell us on this site? Then, by using your own theory of relativity seen in earlier posts, at least we can accuse you of BB riding some rent boy and being a screaming homosexual!
In any case its your life, do what you want.
Joe Zop,
Good points about receptive partners - for example sex workers in Pattaya. For them the risk is high enough that condom use is probably worthwhile - especially since for them there is no downside as they're not doing the sex for enjoyment, and condoms only rob the penetrator of pleasure. For me however there is a huge downside, namely total lack of enjoyment or senstation. Of course the reason prostitutes go without condoms is that some of their customers, like me, would decline to purchase their services under those terms. Thank god for the 'pay after' norm!
Swiss Tiger,
Thanks for the reassuring statistic - only 11% eh? I was assuming 25%. And yes, I've buttfucked a few girls - freelancers on Sukhumvit or Beach Road - that I figured almost had to be positive, if anyone was. I mean we're talking doing it multiple times per day porno gapers here (just my cup of tea).
Freeler,
Nothing new in your post - you just changed the estimated risk factor. Of course none of us knows exactly what it is. I never said the risk wasn't lower for the condom user - of course its lower. In fact its infinitismal. But the catch is that sort of sex is not worth having at all, much less traveling across the world for and paying. My own hand feels better than that nonsense! And ultimately my risk is so low I'll have fun sex all my life and never get it, and you'll have mediocre sex all your life, and also never get it. Probably the only difference will be a few cases of clamydia and gonorrhea.
Joe Zop,
I really do not know about the HIV infection rate in Thailand now, whether it is actually raising slower or decreasing, and whether that most welcome change can be attributed to a more widespread use of condoms.
As far as I suspect (and no, I do not have official figures at my fingertip to prove that), the use of condoms in the general Thai population is still not widespread.
It is true that government agencies have done much to promote safer sex practices and healthier behaviors in general. How much of that has had an impact in actual cases of infection is not obvious to me.
In the area of factors having a favourable impact on public health, you could also cite the War on Drugs that the Thaksin administration is so famous for.
I would not put too much trust in anything Thai authorities do or say they do, or any success they claim. They have limited resources and skills available in that field, and they are not above putting forward unsubstanciated numbers.
As for Cambodia, it is actually far worse in that (and most other) respect.
Always the sceptic.
And as you know, Seydlitz, I have full respect for your skepticism, and I certainly know the Thai government is hardly known for its stone-cold accuracy (such as its pronouncement this month that 90% of the drug trade has been "eliminated" by its recent bloody tactics. See, for example, its past pronouncements about there being utterly no terrorists in the country.) I rather doubt you can credit the "war on drugs" as having a substantial impact as of yet, since it's a very recent phenomenon, and its effects would not be showing up in statistics for a while. The most current reports I've read on the HIV rate (earlier this year) say that it's been starting to rise again -- though not among sex workers except for some in rural areas - but I fully agree that any such information needs to taken with large grains of salt. I know your perspective on what can or cannot be credited as an AIDS infection or death, per earlier conversations in this thread, but I will still go by the defined stats in the absence of anyone supplying something better to work with. To me, having statistics one acknowledges might be off to some degree is still better than having none at all.
While it's true that condom use among the general population in LOS probably hasn't risen all that much, there's absolutely no question that the usage among sex workers has risen dramatically in the last decade, and since there's been a corresponding slowing in the spread of HIV during that period, it's at least a reasonable conclusion that there's a connection. As I said to Opebo, if there's another valid explanation, I'd love to hear it.
Joe Zop:
I guess there is little benefit in debating on this: increase in condom use is a good thing, the general health is improving, and the dreadful indicator (HIV infection) goes in the right direction.
Let's not spoil that warm feeling by suspecting God knows what inaccuracy ...
Joe_zop, Seydlitz,
I saw plenty condomvendingmachines, B5 per condom, in Isaan last summer.
Every pro I was with had her own supply of rubbers, and I saw Navy boys showing their rubbers to other navy boys on the bus.
'Sai tum' was probably the phrase I heard the most!
Those are very good signs.
Opebo,
I tried to edit the post you are referring to, but I accidently deleted it, an old habbit:). I planned to spice it up a bit, but reading your reply it would have been a total waste of time.
If the girls you choose can't give you the real feeling because of condoms, choose better!
But hey, if your sex is to die for, I prefer sex to live for.
Opebo, ah, now we've gotten to the crux of the matter -- it really doesn't matter to you what the risk factors happen to be because it's all about maximum sensation. Fair enough, if that's your decision, and I will of course admit there is some degree of diminishing of sensation wearing condoms, though the newer ultra thin ones do help in that regard. I don't happen to agree that it means total lack of sensation -- I've gotten tons of enjoyment out of sex with a rubber, and that slight decrease of sensation also means I can go on forever.
But the bottom line is that there's a big difference between going around and saying, "I don't really care -- I want it to feel this way regardless of the consequences" and saying, "My behavior really isn't risky." If you want to be a daredevil and aren't doing anything illegal, then it's your choice, but telling people it's always ok to jump from the top of a building because it's fun and because you personally have always landed in water is simply misleading and irresponsible.
Well said, Freeler, as always, and that's good news on Issan.
Joe,
jumping from the top of a building kinda hurt every time, even if landing in water. Ouch !
Joe Zop,
Jumping from a building is not an apt comparison since the risk is so small compared to that. Yes, sensation matters, but the reason it is worth the risk is only partially because sensation is a value - it is also because the risk is so tiny. So I stand by the statement 'My behavior isn't really risky', because the risk is statistically so remote that concern about it is a absurd. I might as well waste my time worrying about slipping in the shower.
Seydlitz,
Though I have nothing new to contribute on the rather low hiv prevalency rates in Thailand and Cambodia, here's a very recent article about the dubious nature of the African statistics -
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2003-12-13&id=3830
Dear fellow Mongers:
I have found where to buy Orasure Oral HIV Testing Kits in BKK for 2500 Baht for a box of 25 kits. The company name is Asia Pacific Biotech and the contact email for the company is: Supasorn--supasorn at brianet.com.
I contacted Supasorn and he responded to me in one day and also sent a map. I am attaching the map, however, with the size limitations, it may be impossible to read. I am sure if anyone is interested they can contact Supasorn for a detailed map of where to buy this product.
I will be in BKK in January and I am looking for weekly GFE and I really prefer testing the girls. These test kits are less than USD3 a piece and are 99 percent effective.
Anyways, I hope you find this information helpful and informative.
Thanks,
Wil
Wilsafris,
I like your idea. The only downside to the test is sometimes the HIV hides in the system and they might come out negative now but six months from now turn up positive. Some people might not want to believe this but I discussed this topic a doctor.
Wilsafris, ChiMan,
these Oral HIV Testing Kits are excellent tools for testing only one thing: how gullible one can be.
The connection between HIV and AIDS is way more complex than what most people seem to believe, and those tests, or any such test, are after antibodies to HIV, not HIV itself anyway.
If one is afraid of HIV, then one should refrain from partaking in high-risk behaviors, like unprotected sex with working girls, or any stranger for that matter.
Screening those one-night-stands using whatever method shady biothech companies can persuade you of buying makes no sense at all.
HI
I completely understand that HIV can be undetected in most humans up to 6 months. I completely understand the ramifications of having sex, unprotected, or protected with a working girl. However, i do take issue that Orasure is a fly by night biotech company. These products are made in the USA and Orasure is a publicly traded company on the NASDAQ and Orasure is a FDA approved product. For more info on Orasure, look up the stock symbol OSUR. The Oral Test requires a swab of the inside of the cheek. It is a simple test, and quick and 99 percent effective.
Of course, by testing someone, there is always the risk they have HIV and the test will come back negative because of the 6 month window. However, it gives ME more sense of security.
This board is for the passing of information. Everything I have stated about Orasure is true. Finding Orasure in BKK might be very important to some people. Research the company and be happy there is such a product on the market : )
Is this section only for AIDS, or can we speak about other STDs ?
Has any of you ever get a "moluscum contagium" ? This is a kind of little shits that have been growing on my pubic (not the organs so far) and can become red and itching. According to the doctor I have seen in this Pattaya hosptital, it is not very serious but quite persistent and contagious. So I got that from one of the cuties here... He suggests a curage but I have not yet decided what to do. Ii seems that cream is not very efficient. Any experience of that ? Thanks.
Erik -- left you a response in the general Safe Sex area.
Erik,
Please tell us. When you got this std. Did you wear a condom? Did you see anything out of the ordinary when you looked at the girls vaginal area. I did post on a previous post about some things I have seen that scared me.
I always wear condom. I have 3 small blisters on the pubis, not the organs. Apparently it could also come from hotel towels...
And... I have no way to recall which girl offered me this chrismas present.
Erik,
I doubt you got that from the towels. But you answered a question I often wondered about. Can we catch STD's from girls even with a condom on by just letting our pubis touch. I guess the answer is yes. I bet that girl had an open sore around her vaginal area that you did not see but it came in contact around your pubic area. I was always cautious on Thai woman who always try to do everything in the dark. I always wonder what they dont want me to see? Please let us know how your condition turns out or at least private message me because I am aways trying to learn more ways to stay safe.
Thank you and I will you luck with your condition.
The Traveler
01-06-04, 10:11
Opebo
Your posts are as always of "very high quality", especially your math regarding the risk of getting HIV.
If the risk of getting HIV is as low as you say, how do you explain the spreading of HIV around the world ? It should be much less due to your comments.
Some people never learn
To the millions of reader worry about my health : you can read my report in the Special Interest/Safe sex section.
Ci Man II : so that is your understanding of the "I shy" trick. Maybe...
The_Traveler,
Two factors - 1) the spread of hiv around the world is highly exaggerated. And 2) it is spread by various activities that have little to do with the typical circumsized heterosexual monger. For example - intravenous drug use, receptive anal sex, receptive vaninal sex, and more rarely penetrative sex (especially 'dry sex') with an uncircumsized or diseased penis.
What I do - low stress, well lubricated penetrative sex, either vaginal or anal - simply isn't very risky. And it sure feels better than condom-sex.
erik,
when they say "i'm shy" maybe they are hiding something or maybe they really are shy? you never know? i never understood how a hooker could be shy. when i went to the massage parlor "cupicity" or how ever you spell it i paid like 3000 baut for a girl that would say this to me and never let me see her stomach or privates. she always wanted to keep it covered. from what i could get glimses of she had a baby before and that whole area looked terrible and unhealthy. in thailand you never know what to expect. if i am going to be with a girl that is banging 50 guys a week i want to at least get a peek what i am putting my dick into. i don't like to go in blindly.
Opebo, posting in a forum titled 'safe sex' - and promoting sex without a condom is unfathomable. Let me guess, you have your own theories about catching warts, chlamydia, herpes, syphillis etc. which also somehow justify your ignorant, foolish, selfish behaviour? Absolutely undefendable.
Of course you are right in your own mind, because you are arrogant enough to concoct your own little dreamworld. Never mind the chances of impregnating these girls which you obviously care little. If you are so educated about these matters you would also agree that the risks are greater for the girl, and subseqently every other monger that comes into contact.
Why do we let these people post in a group title 'safe sex'. Opebo - what exactly are you doing here sharing your wisdom?
The Traveler
01-16-04, 10:37
Opebo
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) the spread of hiv around the world is highly exaggerated
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please post the correct numbers of HIV cases in the different countries depending of the way of transmission.
Thanks for sharing your ultimate wisdom with us.
Sincerely
The Traveler
This guys is a fucking winner!! :mad:
Crispy, et al
I'm just doing a little debunking. Its all just opinion, theory, and a few skewed statistics. You seem to believe there's only one way of looking at the issue. We just have different definitions of 'safe'.
The_Traveler,
Of course no one has exact numbers on the amount of hiv in the world, or the method of transmission. But I suspect the numbers of males out there that got it through penetrative sex, as opposed to receptive sex or intravenous drug use, are very, very few.
Obepo,
There are lots of very nasty STDs that one can get - and spread further - through heterosexual intercourse, especially in paid sex encounters in underdevelopped countries.
Irrespective of your opinion on HIV-AIDS and its prevalence in the world (and I am a declared skeptic about much of the HIV-realted accepted wisdom), the kind of behavior you are advocating is both misguided and irresponsible.
This reinforces my impression that the only thing preventing people from having a free-for-all unprotected sex atttitude, in Thailand and elsewhere, is the fear of HIV-AIDS, since it is perceived as the only untreatable STD.
But clearly, in your case, even that is not working ...
We just have different definitions of 'safe'.
There's an understatement if there ever was one.
And you've nailed it nicely, Seydlitz.
Should this thread be titled "Safe (sic) Sex in Thailand"?
GettingTang
01-17-04, 02:08
As I said before, just wait until they find a full working vaccine for HIV. You will likely be waiting two years to be able to book a flight to LOS. The pricing will triple over night. Ya I know P4P has been around in LOS much longer then HIV, but people, us mongers especially have been sexually repressed for some 20 years now! Trust me all hell will break loose once the fear of HIV is gone!
GettingTang
01-17-04, 02:15
If you're banging WG around the world without a condom, trust me, it's only a matter of time before HIV bites you! There is a reason why in certain high risk areas of the south east Asia, some 83% of the WG have this disease! Parts of Africa are the same. Rationalize all you want in your own little dream world, but it will get ya! Might not be the 1st time you expose yourself, might not be the hundredth, but it will happen.
As for oral sex, I think receiving it presents are very minimal low risk, performing DATY, is probably a medium to high risk. I am all to aware of the stats, but trust me, people around the world are catching HIV at an alarming rate, most these days are heterosexuals. Safe sex is the only way, until a foolproof vaccine is designed. I dream of that day!
GETTINGTANG~!
Seydlitz,
I couldn't agree more about HIV being the only thing holding back sex tourism in any and all countries where it is tolerated. Of course this means mainly Thailand. Though I do question how much longer we will be tolerated even in Thailand.
Most guys refuse to take any risk at all. I suspect they think they're going to live forever. This is a common misconception, especially among Americans. The ony thing that might slightly reduce a huge post-HIV-vaccine increase in sex tourism is if women in the 'first world' become more promiscuous. It is conceivable they might do this since one risk factor would be gone. Then again, I think the main point of sex for them is financial advantage (though on a higher pay-scale than the developing world prostitute), so they'd probably remain un-generous.
Some STD advice - what would give a person one big welt on the shaft of the penis? It looks exactly like a big mostquito bite. I suppose it could actually be one.
Some STD advice - what would give a person one big welt on the shaft of the penis? It looks exactly like a big mostquito bite. I suppose it could actually be one.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030604162356/http://erl.pathology.iupui.edu/dermpath/derm_index.cfm
I tend to agree with Opebo.
I simply ask where is the evidence to the contrary? I don't see or hear of large numbers of mongers in Pattaya or any similar place contracting HIV. Freelancer specialists are obviously at greatest risk but nothing seems to slow them down.
Does anyone have any personal stories of buddies etc contracting HIV, how they think they got it (unprotected intercourse, oral, DATY etc)?
I just wrote a bit of a spiel in the Special Interest section of the main index. I'm really looking for some knowledgeable opinions (with some facts/evidence) and experiences.
Cheers
The Traveler
02-15-04, 09:02
Red Rex
I personally used to know at least 3 girls who contracted HIV. One already died, the two others vanished (maybe dead too).
But I do not know how they contracted it. Might be upcountry in some cheap brothel or in Pattaya.
Do not expect to hear a large number of mongers telling you that they are HIV infected. They definately like to keep it secret.
It is there, believe me.
Have fun and be careful
Silly Puppy
02-20-04, 16:41
Opebo is a walking and dying HIV / Syphylis / Gorno stupido trying to revenge the world just like a white ho I saw on TV a while ago. This woman with AIDs when asked why continued to be a hooker, said she just wanted to give it to others to revenge. While she was telling her true feeling this kid Opebo is telling lie to hide his deadly intention.
Bound in Iraq
03-22-04, 06:33
So my question is, and don't think it's silly please, as long as you are having protected sex, what are the dangers for AIDS and STD? I know nothing is 100%.
James Tran,
You might be interested to know that I had my usual hiv test just before departing for the States about two weeks ago - Negative of course. Usually I follow up with one a few months after being back, but I have no doubts or worries on this front. Its simply not something one is likely to pick up through penetrative activities.
Bound in Iraq,
Don't worry about a thing, enjoy your well deserved vaction. You're 100% safe with condoms - heck even we barebackers are highly unlikely to get it.
Bound in Iraq, according to a study published in the January 2002 issue of "Sexually Transmitted Diseases" done by some CDC folks, not wearing a condom is twenty times riskier than wearing one, in terms of contracting HIV. That takes into account stuff like condoms breaking (pegged at 5% of the time) percentages of both gays and hererosexuals who have HIV, and the accuracy of HIV tests. They say that the safest sexual activity, in terms of HIV, is receiving oral sex -- giving is twice as risky -- that, for guys, vaginal sex is ten times and anal 13 times riskier than receiving oral. Condom wearing would then be factored into those numbers.
I've only read an abstract of the article, and their conclusions seem to be based on US stats, so I can't comment on their methodology or conclusions. This also speaks only to HIV.
Some other numbers, just for the sake of argument -- if you presume that 1 in 250 working TGs are HIV+, (just to pick a number in the general ballpark, feel free to change this) then your odds of having a sexual encounter with an infected partner on any given encounter is 0.004. Have sex a hundred times with different TGs and that means your odds of exposure are around 0.004 x 100 or 40%. (Exposure obviously does not equal infection; that's a different issue -- estimates I've seen on this range wildly and are connected to tons of variables.) If you presume your condoms are only 90% effective in preventing HIV transmission (low according to most studies, even including breakage) then your odds of exposure end up going down considerably for the same 100 encounters -- 0.004 x .090 x 100 = 0.036, so basically you've got a 96.4% safety rate after those 100 encounters. To me, there's a critical difference between a 60% non-exposure rate and a 96.4% one. It ain't perfect, but it's a lot better.
Hi,
I've finally decided to try MPs this time. Shall be in Bangkok this weekend. Do I have a chance to get any disease becuase of this?
Can I get AIDS or any STD if do the tub thing? I'll avoid penetrative sex anyway.
Please respond. No cynicism.
Thanks
Prince,
No cynicism from me, just pity...
Have you ever considered talking to your gp about this?
Where ever you live, there must be a place where you can go and ask all the questions you have and get some answers.
We don't live in the fifties anymore, you know...
PurpleNGold
03-27-04, 04:28
Last night, the condom broke. I felt it, pulled out immediately and ran to the shower to wash off.
Does anyone have an informed opinion about the chances of catching a nasty given the circumstances? Also, how long do I need to wait to test and where I can go in LOS to do so?
Travis Bickle 2
03-27-04, 06:30
purple, if you pulled out immediately and washed off the chances are almost nil that you would catch something. if you urinated immediately as well the chances are almost zero. i wouldn't even worry about it enough to get checked.
civ2000-
PnG, as Civ says the probability is that you're safe, but the window period for testing varies widely in terms of the type of STD, so it's tough to say exactly when you should get tested if that's what you want. The quickest an infection would be detected is generally two days -- and that's only for Gonorrhea, with most others taking around two weeks at a minimum to show up. The best way to check things is to have a blood test done at 3 months and another at six, as that covers basically all the windows.
PurpleNGold
03-28-04, 05:38
Thanks for the responses (in this thread and by PM). I'm calm about it now and will wait my 2 weeks for a first test and then get more thorough work-ups at the recommended 3 and 6 month intervals.
Also, I'm gonna have my little bit of Joy checked as well so I can be doubly sure.
Overly paranoid? Maybe, but spilling a little blood in a vial and pissing in a cup is a small cost to pay for piece of mind :)
Thanks again.
The WHO estimates that half of all sex workers in LOS are HIV +. That is a sobering thought. The same study also notes that in the North, that figures is probably 75%.
Condoms decrease any chance of obtaining an STD dramatically, but when you mix alcohol, stupidity, sleep deprivation, Cialis and more infected hotties than you can shake a stick at...well, anything can and does happen.
Pix won't open. gives Warning can't open
Golazo,
the WHO estimates are just that, estimates spewed out by mathematical models.
One should rely on WHO facts and figures. But there are not enough of those to support the estimates regarding HIV prevalence, as nobody ever bothered to run comprehensive field tests, because of cost, political resistance, etc.
In the absence of evidence, these estimates are rather wild guesses, that could be miles away from the truth.
This of course is no reason to abandon safe sex behaviors, since even in a totally HIV-free world there are countless of nasties that one can catch.
Golazo, would you please cite a specific source for those figures, as they're radically higher than any others I've ever tracked down. I know, for example, that the 2000 UNAIDS/WHO estimates were at 7% for Bangkok and ranged up to 57% in places in the north. The last time I saw estimates in your ranges for Thailand were from the early 90s.
PurpleNGold
04-14-04, 08:15
My reply to a PM from Obepo concerning his request for info on BBFS at Eden (BKK2004 thread)
First, it wasn't an attack. It was more like a slap in the face, 'Wake the fuck up', kind of thing. However, since you are obviously doing this with every bit of awareness...
You're not worth the time wasted to look up hard numbers, so I'll stick with conservative estimates. Unprotected sex with an HIV person carries greater than a 5% chance of causing transmission of the disease. More than 1% of pros are infected. the odds are that you're infected as well. That leaves at least a .02 probability that you would catch the nastiest from any pro you fuck. Add in the rest of the nasties, even excluding those that penicilin can rectify, and you've got to be looking at a well over .1, but the .02 is good enough to prove the point. You say you've barebacked a couple 100? We'll assume that means 200. If you've barebacked 200 and had a .02 chance of contracting HIV, then you have a probability of 1 for being a diseased dude (and a probability of 20 for all the nasties). When's the last time you got checked? My guess is never, or you're lying about not knowing you're infected.
How does that fuck things up for the rest of us? You're spreading your diseases you worthless, walking dead, mother fucker. When you give someone HIV, you are killing them and possibly the people they have sex with (whether their partner's wear protection or not does not erase all probability). So, you go around spreading your shit and are not only raising the risk level for the rest of us, but you are killing your partners.
Basically, you're a murdering, diseased, fucked up in the head shitbag. I'm not your buddy.
Lay off? You can fuck off.
[quote]
Opebo wrote on 04-13-04 19:17:
PurplenGold,
Friend, my question about Eden was an honest one, I don't see why you had to attack me:
>Obepo, are you insane? You are seeking out bareback with pros?
I've barebacked at least a couple of hundred. Nothing worse than a few antibiotics required on rare occasions.
>Are you already infected with all the nasties and just want to fuck the world up for the rest of us?
A) No, uninfected, of course. You've just plain got your facts wrong on female to male transmission.
B) How does it fuck it up for the rest of you? If you're wearing your condom, you're not going to get anything regardless. What she does with others is none of your business.
Please, people, ignore this fool's request. And, if anyone knows him personally, please smack the shit out of him in order to knock some sense into him.
Travis Bickle 2
04-14-04, 08:23
PnG, I'm sure 99% of the mongers on this board agree with you (myself included) but there has been at least a hundred posts warning Obepo of his idiosy and suicidal ways to no avail.
Some guys just never learn!
Did anyone see the report in Details Magazine, also the reports on Fox News saying that that said HIV and AIDS is not cause by normal sex between a man and a woman? And that the chance of getting aids through normal sex without a condom is one in five million and with a condom one in fifty million?
Not trying to start another condom vs. no condom fight here just asking the questions. It does make one think, if true maybe time to rethink the positions that we take?
Sexreview
Jack Spratt
04-14-04, 14:16
SR, in this case I support what you say about re-thinking our positions. This doesn't equate to changing your position.
A number of years ago I heard on the (highly regarded) public radio system in Oz that the chances of contracting AIDS for a man have unprotected sex with an HIV-positive woman was about 1 in 400. You then needed to extrapolate those odds against the chances that the woman you were with was positive. This will obviously vary according to the lifestyle of the woman ie sex worker, amateur, etc etc.
I haven't heard or seen anything since which contradicts the 1:400 statistic. Of course you may always be the 1, but like so many things in life, we are often weighing up risks against rewards.
I don't condone or condemn unprotected sex - I just think we need to make our own choices, as does the (working) girl, and the next guy who goes with her.
jack
In China, nothing is ever as it seems.
PnG - while your intentions in the BB issue are correct, your statistics are a bt "muddled". Assuming a .02 (as in 2 percent) chance of an occurance, that same 2 percent occurs whatever the occassion. Just like throwing a "seven" in dice is always 6/36 - because you manage to throw 35 "not seven" in a row doesn't mean that the chance of the "seven" is "1" - it's still 1/6 (numbers are my work)
As to BB and the HiV, issue, though - without "proof" (as in "verified test" of non-infection, the risk is just too high. It's not like losing a bet (as in dice) will cost you some money - you risk your life
Use the BIG head, not the LITTLE head
PurpleNGold
04-14-04, 19:57
Dinghy,
I understand what you're saying about a discrete event having the same probability, and that the effect is not cumulative if you are considering each test individualy. However, when checking the probability of an event occuring once in x tries, then you are playing with a different rule. If the probability for an event occuring on any particular 'roll of the dice' is P, then the probability of an event occuring once in X tries is x*P. This is because the probability is basically an or statement: P that Event occurs on try 1, or P that event occurs on try 2, etc... Basic probability. :)
In obepo's case (using my prior assumptions), the probability he will contract HIV on any particular uncovered encounter with a pro is always .02. However, when testing the probability that he contracted it in 200 tries, we get 200*.02 = 1.
And, I definitely agree with you about the risk being too high!
PurpleNGold,
If one in two hundred is not acceptable what about one in five million? Where do you draw your own line? We all take risks even flying on a plane to Thailand, so what level of risks is acceptable?
Sexreview
C'mon, Dude!
You mean you want to die, or be disease inflected for a lifetime. All, b/c cause you do't want to use a condom.
15min, to 2 hours of pleasure, for death, duh?
I want to have fun, not die.
Is it worth it? Just get a gf, then you don't have to use any.
PnG - then by your mathematical reasoning, if he did it X400 the probability would be _2_ (and probability can never exceed "1")
<smile>
SR - I sort of doubt the 1 / 5meg probability rate - While I'm no expert in means of transmission of HiV, I seriously doubt if it's necessarily that much different from clap or syph and they both infect thru the urethra.
As to air transport, though - it's an acceptable risk (low enough to be in the noise - lower than the chance of winning the lottery. I assume the 5meg rate is based on "normal" hetero??
SR, is there a solid source, coming from some sort of study, for those numbers? I've seen tons of different ones, and they also vary according to the sex act involved. There are tons of ways to massage those numbers -- they may, for example, be talking about a random encounter, where you're coming into contact with any woman in the US, which is different from coming into contact with a sex provider in LOS. Talking about strict transmission possibilities and giving numbers that include rates of possible exposure are two very different things, as the latter are much more situation-specific.
As I mentioned previously, according to a study done by CDC folks specifically about the issue, not wearing a condom is 20 times riskier than wearing one, in terms of contracting HIV, which is different from the number you quoted which says ten times. I'd be interested in tracking down the differences.
Travis Bickle 2
04-15-04, 05:35
Guys, It seems to me that the mongers who go condomless are missing the big picture. Always when debating whether to suit up or not for FS the focus always seems to be on HIV.
I've read where a lot of doctor's are now saying that Hep C is just as dangerous as HIV. It is about 200 times as easy to catch as HIV, has a long incubation period where you show no symptoms, and results in a chronic illness progressing to liver failure and death. Interferon which works part of the time is like having the worst flu you ever had for a year.
In fact I read one physican who was quoted as saying with all the new treatments on the horizon for HIV, if he had to choose between the two he'd pick HIV.
Then of course is Hep B which is very common and extremely easy to pass sexually. It's often not too bad but increases the liklihood of liver cancer exponentially.
How about warts? I don't really like the idea of ugly and painful warts all over my dick which grow back as fast as the doctor can burn them off. Heck, if I had only twenty years to live I think I would rather have HIV.
Herpes: yuck!
The Clap: hey pissing razor blades is just not my cup of tea. But for you masochists out there.
Lots of nasties out there and I just like myself too much not to cover up.
Civ2000
PurpleNGold
04-15-04, 10:27
Dinghy,
A probability greater than 1 doesn't have real physical significance, but it can arise mathematically when dealing with these types of problems.
Basically, if I say I rolled the dice a thousand times, I can say that the probability is greater than 1 that I rolled a seven at least one time out of that thousand. However, physically it's possible (though extremely improbable) that I didn't roll a seven at all. And, if you ask what's the probability of rolling a 7 on the next roll then the probability is, correctly, less than 1.
Cream on Top
04-15-04, 13:44
It is particularly weard people panic when talking about HIV. The chances you catch HIV by bloodtransfusion or other means besides sexual contacts are close to equal. I guess lots of us are too much Media addicted.
Other infections like stated by Civ2000 are more due to sexual contacts and therefore more dangereous to be caught! And not so very "in demand" on media channels.
As far as it goes to punting and not having knowledge of the background of the girl, be safe and wear your preservatives.
When one decides to take a week or 2 weeks with one single girl (which happens in Thailand) you have more chances to know who you are dealing with, getting background info. Also the possiblity to make a medical checkup on her. This will give you certain insurances about most usual STD's, whereoff the tests give instant results or short term reports. So why not go without preservatives when all above conditions are fullfilled? Indeed, it is up to you anyhow. And nobody will give you a 100 percent certainty you will not catch anything.
If you really want to be "preserved" from STD's do not *****monger/swing anylonger. Become a monk. And stay away from the scene. Take a wife, get married and just hope she does not screw around, otherwise your chances are going up again.
I recon I could role a 7 on a dice at that moment PnG, maybe even with a 6-eyed dice.
So lets say take your chances but bear in mind you cannot do it with everyone.
Cream on Top,
Finally, a reasonable post on this subject rather than the nonsense statistical fiction one usually sees. It comes down to that - if you want to be perfectly safe, stay home and masturbate. Personally I don't find condom-sex enjoyable in any way, and can't understand why anyone would want to pay for it or find it preferable to masturbating at home. But I respect other's right to be unrealistic hypochondriacs.
This is an issue that seems to attract a lot of puritans and busy-bodies. Whether or not to use condoms is a personal choice. Alas, some people like PurpleNGold, et al, simply don't respect others or their right to choice.
The facts are the risk is very, very tiny, and - I hate to be the one to break this to you - one isn't going to live forever anyway. If one were this unreasonable about all risks one could never drive a car or take a shower standing up - might slip! Puritans just have a different calculus of risk for hedonistic activities than they do for unpleasant or mundane activities. While I can respect their choice, I like to remind them it has nothing to do with reason.
PurpleNGold
04-16-04, 10:04
Obepo, in case you didn't notice, the prior post by Cream on Top was not in support of your argument. He was referring to a different situation entirely (an LTR). Cream on Top, was talking about going bareback with a girl after you have her tested and have a reasonable assurance that she's clean.
I would still disagree with going bareback due to the dangers ending up with bastard children. I don't think Cream's suicidal or psychotic like Obepo, and wouldn't put him even in the same ballpark.
As for not respecting other people's rights to their own choices, I'm a pro-choice guy. However, You don't have the right to make choices that raise everyone else's level of risk.
The point, PurpleNGold, was that Cream on Top's position was a reasonable one, unlike your knee-jerk one.
The fact remains, its none of your business what other people do sexually, and it has nothingwhatever to do with your risk.
Opebo - well... the issue of YOUR going BB and your knee-jerk reaction to someone attempting to inform you of the risks point out your own misunderstanding of the "sharing the wealth". ASSUMING "we" (as in the community out here) don't BB, (BBBJ not included) "we" won't spread the nasties. Frankly, _I_ don't care what _you_ do (after all, it's YOUR life). IF you want to take the risk, that's OK.
PnG - depending on how many time you are with whomever poo ying, yes, there are chances of producing offspring. Hvaing her figure out WHO you REALLY are, though, is another matter entirely. They never get anything real from me (my nickname is "doi" (mountain) and that's all they get) - and where I stay doesn't even ask for anything except a "name" and baht so I'm relatively untraceable.
You have to care somewhat. This is someone life you are talking about. Whether, it is man, or woman, No one deserve to catch this disease, even if you can prevent it.
My life is worth more than 15 min. to 2 hours of fun, than prolonging death. I love my life more than that. The girls in Thailand, just want to survive, and support their families. They are willing to do anything to do that. You can't blame them. Us, We are lucky SOB, from the western world, that we can having anything we want, or need. With convertion of the dollars in our favor, we live like King, if we want. Why spoil a good thing?
Any Sex worker is high risk. If you are going to do that, then you have to go to countries where the risk is low. Unfortunately, Thailand is not one of them.
Ouch, Dinghy, and with all due respect, I hate to say it but that attitude is just as troubling as not worrying about whether or not you're spreading STDs. Creating kids and disappearing without a trace is hardly the most honorable policy. (I know you're not doing that, but that's the way it comes off.)
And Opebo, I presume you're including your own "nonsense statistical fiction" in your statement, as you've certainly thrown enough unsubstantiated numbers and statements around here. I fully agree with you that using or not using condoms is a personal choice -- but advocating for responsible mongering is hardly being a "puritan." The bottom line is that everyone here's out banging multiple partners for baht, and very often the same partners, so one person's choices can affect another's.
Ok Guys,
We can all pretend that there are no STD's in Thailand. We can calculate the percentage of catching something. But, it only takes one time. Bareback is very easy to get there along with alot of other things. If you do get a girl knocked up. What happens if you go back there next year and run in to her. You probally won't but there is always a chance you could. The goverment is very harsh with this offense if she reports you. It is best to stay safe each time so you live to go back next year.
Joe - so, lets put this in perspective - Even if I cared about the girl, exactly HOW would _I_ know if she got pregnant? I'm in country for some maybe 2 or 3 weeks, not even in the same locality and then gone and not back for what would be the 9 month gestation period. UNLESS I met up with her later and she told me... (and then given a working girl, how - unless thru DNA - would I even have asurances it was MINE?) What
No disagreement whatsoever about the reality of the situation and completely no accusation here -- and there's absolutely no doubt that any number of working TGs probably have told a dozen different farangs they're the father at various times in an attempt to get their hooks in. I was simply reacting to the attitude that you're safe because you're untraceable as being counter to the concept of responsible mongering, that's all.
Silly Puppy
04-20-04, 09:17
Amen,
I wonder why the AIDS in Africa is now killing so many people. Does the risk 1/5milion make any sense? Of course not! Don't tell me the African folks with AIDS are all using blood transfusion or needles to spread this disease. Let assume 1 mil of the AIDS folks have never been drug addicts and never used condoms then the time to infect AIDS to 1 milion folks is ~ 200000 years! He he .. do the math and figure out my assumptions! Is there a contradiction here?
The Traveler
04-28-04, 13:42
Just a question
any advice regarding viagra or the like ?
Which product is best, prices ?
Like to try it once, maybe a performance boost, who knows :D
Please don't jump on me, I know I had seen a few post regarding that in the past and I could search the database. But products and prices change all the time and I am in a hurry right now.
Any advice appreciated.
TIA
TT
Viagra is good but expensive (200-300B ea.) Indian counterparts Penagra, Caverta are a lot cheaper and works the same (500 B for 4 tabs) The ingredients are the same. Lasts about 24 hrs. Try with half a tab first.
I hear Cialis is supposed to last 36 hrs. never tried it though.
Duni is right - the "generic" works the same for A LOT LESS MONEY (I paid 800B for 4 one place and thought that was a good price - at first) - IF you have to have the "name brand", however...
Traveler,
I have great success with Kamagra from India. 1/2 a tab, then the other half either approximately 12 or 24 hours later, and I was good for a week to a month. Seriously! No problemo! No complaints!
Think I paid 600 Baht for 4 at a pharmacy in front of the Ambassador Hotel in the plaza fronting Sukumvit.
The only issue was that I could fuck for hours and didn't feel like cumming. That's a serious porn star upside.
Robux
The Traveler
04-29-04, 10:35
Duniawala, Dinghy, Robux
Thanks for the info.
Last night bought some chinese "generic" at a pharmacy close to Emporium.
800 for 4 tabs (200mg each). Tried to charge me 1600 for Viagra 8 tabs (100mg each).
Took half a tablet about 2 hours before and another half a tablet a bit later.
Not much of a difference.No performance boost as expected but a slight improvement. Guess it's not worth the money until you got this kind of prob.
The chicks I had during the last days are my viagra. Real f...king machines. No complaining if you go for a long ride. This was always my biggest prob with the real pros. Girls new to the business still enjoy and love sex. Pros are just out for the quick money.
Will give Kamagra a chance. If it lasts a week then it must be strong. :D
BTW, any side effects ? Viagra and the like were originally invented for heart treatment.
TT
There are no "chinese" sbstitutes. If there are then they must be fakes.
The Indian one you want is Penagra or Caverta. I am not sure about Kamagra.
All these have the same active ingredient as Viagra and in the same dosage, Called 'slidenfil'. Hence the same warning goes for these just as for Viagra.
Side-effects: I had some slight headaches the first time I used it. Also, you can go on and on without a release. Also, don't use it too often. you might get dependent on it. (the last is my personal opinion)
Kamagra is the same as Penagra, just made by another Indian company. Don't know where Traveler's getting "a week" though, as it lasts the same amount of time as any other form of Viagra.
BTW, I have heard that there are several Chinese knock-offs of Viagra that are actually ok, but there are so many fakes it's hard to tell what you're getting. The Indian ones are from legit companies there.
Side-effects of Viagra include headache, flushing, upset stomach, stuffy nose, diarrhea, and, in some people, tightness in the chest. For a true cautionary tale, take a look at TrashMan's heart attack tale in the Viagra & Other Performance Enhancers section.
Traveller - 200 mg - gad the "normal" V dose is 100. 200 will drain the blood from your eyeballs and make you stiff as a board
Recreational? You won't get it down for HOURS
oh, and it's SUDENAFIL CITRATE
Dinghy,
The proper spelling is:
Sildenafil citrate
If the name on the box is misspelled, I would not trust the contents...
er... I guess I'm glad I got new glasses (not joking) "il" and "u" looked about the same without the magnifying glass.
gad - what HAVE I been using as lube - preparation H?
we get too soon old and too late smart.
While in Cambodia my moto driver took me to a pharmacy where I bought Kamagra and Zeagra. Each box contained 4 tabs, 100 mgs each. The Kamagra was $10 USD for the box of 4. The Zeagra was $8 USD for a box of 4. As I reported in the Cambodia thread, I took one (forget which) and half an hour later my dick started getting hard as a Cambodian lady gave me a manicure. Right after that I had an afternoon romp with 2 Cambodian cuties and afterwards, as they washed themselves and me, my dick was still rock hard. It eventually went down.
I took all 8 tabs over a 4 day time span and I believe they worked really well. They lasted through my days in Cambodia and Pattaya (8 girls.)
I'll post the picture of the nice Cambodian lady whose manicure gave me a hardon. I bought a "Red Bull" hat (written in Chinese) at the Bangkok airport; I put it on her head and then took her picture ($2 USD for a manicure and pedicure.)
The Traveler
05-10-04, 03:12
Duniawala
not a substitute, a generic.
Like Kamagra is from India and that one was from China. Couldn't read the name, had the same ingredient like Viagra but double dosis.
The Traveler
05-10-04, 03:15
Joe Zop
Robux said that Kamagra lasts a week. Will give it a try on my next trip. Cronin and me bought a few to check them out.
Had no side effects so far with the chinese stuff.
The Traveler
05-10-04, 03:24
Dinghy
I usually don't get it down for hours. :)
The girls often prefer quick sex = quick money which was always my biggest prob with pros in LOS. This time I was very lucky that all of them seem to enjoy, but after 2-3 hours even those had enough.
Not much difference and no real performance boost when taking Viagra and the like. The only difference I saw was that I sometimes got a hard on without any reason. Maybe I am still too young :D
Asian Monger #2
05-10-04, 03:32
Sorry to post this question which might have been discussed before but I gotta ask. Please don't bombard me with diatribe.
In LOS, where can I take my girl for a medical check-up that 'working' girls usually go to do their checks? Are the results out in the same day?
Pls advise.
Thanks,
AM2
As far as I'm aware, Kamagra and Penegra are the same thing -- I read a number of articles about them in Indian newspapers when I was in Delhi which described their processes of making sure they could be manufactured under Indian copyright law (which basically says it's ok to manufacture a drug that might be protected elsewhere as long as you use a substantially different method to do so.) They come in 50 and 100mg doses, exactly the same as Viagra, and contain citrate salt of Sildenafil, same as Viagra, so the only way they'd affect you for a week is if Viagra itself would do that. You've used that, so you well know how it will or will not affect you personally. Robux may have had that effect, but the bottom line is that Kamagra is generic Viagra, and expecting it to do something that Viagra does not, in terms of how long it lasts, is wishful thinking. Its advantage is that it's cheaper.
YMMV, for sure. I've found that different formulations of meds, between name brands and various generics, give me different results. Perhaps it's my body chemistry. Maybe it's the floor sweepings they mix into the generics as a binder that have the right buffering effect for me.
The Traveler
05-10-04, 21:36
Asian Monger #2
are you still in Pattaya ?
If so, go to the PIC hospital in soi 4. They do all kind of check ups and also a HIV test. It's a bit more expensive than the Memorial and closer than the Bangkok Pattaya but I personally put more trust in their results.
In BKK go to the Bumrungrad hospital also in soi 4 (Sukhumvit this time) as far as I remember. It's one of the best in Thailand.
A HIV test was about 1.000 baht. Ask Tapioca, he did it last time we had been there :D
Check out the female pre-nuptual checkup. Flat fee. All inclusive.
http://www.bumrungrad.com/en/packages/spec/checkup/ckup7-2.asp
Also, check out the male pre-nuptual checkup. Same deal.
Robux
Asian Monger #2
05-11-04, 05:57
Traveler,
No, I was in Pattaya from 30th Apr till 1st May. Now I'm back in KL, Malaysia.
I just wanna know, the next time I'm on business in BKK, where can I take my girl for a check-up. That's all.
Thanks for your info.
AM2
asia monger,
go to http://www.bumrungrad.com/ in soi 3 for a check up. reading several of the hthreads here and seeing how thai hookers seem to think a bar of soap will cure them, perhaps we should see what islamic law has to say on the matter:
istabra (the process of cleaning the urethra)
73. istabra is a recommended act which is performed by men after [CodeWord112] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112). its object is to ensure that no more [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) is left in the urethra. there are certain ways of performing istabra and the best of them is that if after the passing of wind the anus also becomes impure it should be purified first. thereafter the portion from the anus up to the root of male organ should be pressed thrice with the middle finger of the left hand. then the thumb should be placed on the penis and the forefinger should be placed below it and it should be pressed thrice up to the point of circumcision and the front part of the male organ should be jerked thrice.
74. the liquid which comes out of the penis of man after joking and jesting with or embracing a woman and is called 'mazi' is pure and same is the case with the liquid which at times comes out after semen, and is called 'wazi' similarly the liquid which at times comes out after [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) and is called 'wadi' is pure, if [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) does not reach it. and if a person performs istabra after [CodeWord112] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112) and then liquid comes out of his penis and he doubts whether it is [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) or one of the above- mentioned three liquids that liquid is pure.
75. if a person doubts whether he has performed istabra or not and a liquid comes out of his penis about which he does not know whether it is pure or not that liquid is impure and if he has performed ablutions it becomes void. however, if he doubts whether he performed the istabra correctly or not and a liquid comes out of his body about which he does not know whether it is pure or not that liquid is pure and it does not also invalidate the ablutions.
76. if a person performed istabra after [CodeWord112] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112) and also per- for ablutions and if after ablution a liquid comes out of his body which he considers to be [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) or semen it is obligatory for him to perform ceremonial bath as a precautionary measure and also to perform ablutions. however, if he has not already performed ablutions it is sufficient to performed ablutions.
77. in case a person does not perform istabra after [CodeWord112] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112) and on account of sufficient time having passed since he urinated he is sure that no [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) is left inside the urinary organ and in the meantime some liquid discharges from it about which he is not sure as to whether it is pure or not, that liquid is pure and does not also make the ablutions void.
78. istabra is not prescribed for female after [CodeWord112] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112) and if a liquid comes out of her body and she doubts whether it is [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) that liquid is pure and it does not also invalidate ablutions and ceremonial bath.
recommended and abominable acts
79. when a person enters the lavatory it is recommended (mustahab) that he should first place his left foot inside it and having covered his head he should sit at a place where no one can see him. it is also recommended that he should place the weight of his body on the left foot, and while leaving the lavatory he should first place his right foot.
80. it is abominable (makrooh) to face the sun or the moon while evacuating bowels or bladder. but if a person somehow covers his private parts it is not abominable. apart from this it is not desirable to sit for [CodeWord112] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112) etc. facing the current of the wind; it is also abominable to sit on the roadside or in lanes and y lanes or in front of the doors of the house or under the shade of the fruit-yielding trees. it is also not desirable to eat something in this condition or take more than usual time sitting there or to wash with the right hand. unnecessary talking is also not desirable. however it does not matter if one is constrained to talk or if one utters allah's words.
81. it is abominable to [CodeWord111] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord111) while standing, or on hard earth, or in the holes of the animals, or in the water (especially standing water).
82. it is also abominable to suppress evacuation of bowels or ladder, and unlawful if it is injurious for health.
83. it is recommended that one should [CodeWord111] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord111) before offering prayers, sleeping and having sexual intercourse, and after the seminal discharge.
Safe Sex In Thailand.
What a name for a discussion board. Is there such a thing as safe sex in Thailand?
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