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PinkPearl
01-12-08, 11:09
I've found that a high percentage of P4P TGs are not punctual, especially regarding next day appointments. Best to pick them up and take them straight to your room.

Likewise they seem to be more outspoken than Western women, saying what's on their mind. Such as the one who text messaged me saying "Fuck you. And your little dog too". I replied that I'd welcome her fucking me, but I would also like to fuck her.

Even from TGs with an otherwise excellent attitude they might on occasion blurt out something stupid, like "no good", accusing you of having a bad heart, sigh lie. Give her a nice tip or offer to buy her dinner if she's ever hungry and, all of a sudden, she is calling you "good man".

This spicy food called Som Tam, papaya salad, that so many TGs love seems to cause stomach upset in a lot of them. If it does that to those who've lived here, think what it will do to you. While LOS does not have Tums, they claim to have one or two substitutes for it in Antacil {6 Baht} and Gelusil {20 Baht}.

For fucking my experience is that the best TGs cum from Udon Thani, or thereabouts. That is, if they are telling the truth about their hometowns.

If she starts talking about if you like big or small mew and you have no clue what she's saying, don't worry, she is not suggesting you have kitten for dinner. {As far as I know TGs do not eat them, either sushi style or well done. } She is actually asking you about milk, which is a reference to breasts.

Speaking of kittens, if she makes kitten sounds and then starts laughing hystericly, thinking that is somehow funny, you should understand that this is typical Thai humour. Just go along with it while knowing she has not recently been freed from the institution depicted in One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest.

If she looks at you with a blank look after you've asked her a question, fear not, she has not suddenly gone deaf or lost her mind. It seems that this may be a typical Thai response meaning "no". Apparently they are afraid to say the word. So don't get upset if you've asked her 3 times and still get the same look. For example you may have asked her if she'll smoke {do a BJ} for one hour.

As for trusting what P4P TGs tell you, I'd say, forget about it. She speak with forked tongue. Or, as the Scriptures tell us about the prostitute, she flatters with her mouth {sweet mouth} but her heart is far from you.

Cpalace82
02-04-08, 18:02
Hey guys,

Have any of you dated a TG that lives in your home country?

If so, how are they to date?

Love Sex 22
02-05-08, 09:00
Since I had a little free time back home in USA . I decided to try my luck with the Thai dating sights for the first time . I must say I was amazed at the number of girls that looking to find farang man for serious relationship most of them with a bachelor degrees and some with master degrees . . That obviously was not my intention I am looking just for some good clean fun , if you no what I mean . And I made it clear to the girls that I am not looking to get married and just want to have some fun and be friends . I wrote the same letter to about 100 girls from 20 to 28 years old all look attractive in the photos . I got 60 serious responds with there email and there interest to meet me . Out of 60 I got 25 Tel # and the promise that they are all waiting for me . Some of them even offered to pick me up from the airport . I am not a young man , I am over 50 , and all the girls saw my picture and they know exactly how I look . The only thing that attracts them I am sure is the fact that I have a condo and a new car in Bangkok . So money talks again even for none pro .
My biggest problem now is how to manage my time when I get to Bangkok in 2 weeks . Because I have a girl friend that she would cut my balls if she finds out about these girls .

Giotto
02-05-08, 09:08
...
My biggest problem now is how to manage my time when I get to Bangkok in 2 weeks . Because I have a girl friend that she would cut my balls if she finds out about these girls .Love Sex 22,

LOL, I understand that you have a serious problem now. I feel for you :) .


Giotto

M P Lurker
02-05-08, 10:54
Re the pics of girls, I'm not sure that I'm understanding your point. I'd assume that probably your first sentence is true, but don't see how the second follows from it, my view being that the ladies at those two places are as lovely as those on the website. Perhaps you meant to reiterate your opinion from another thread that these women in BKK are ugly. And that those on the site are so much superior to them that there is no comparison.
I mean't that the web sites would not expect to be rated as similar to the Nana Car park. They may be trying for a quite different look and certainly not similar to the ladyboys

I don't believe BKK women are ugly in general, nor do I go for the chinese, round faced, nor slanty-eyed looks that many others go for. I prefer a very obviously Thai look but with small nose. I think Thai have a higher proportion of good lookers than most Asian countries.
My taste would be as close as can get to a Thai version of Jessica Alba.

Its just that the Nana Car park is not where I would expect to find a lot of stunners to my taste. The odd one or two might be pretty enough to interest me.

Old Thai Hand
02-05-08, 12:48
i am not a young man , i am over 50 , and all the girls saw my picture and they know exactly how i look . the only thing that attracts them i am sure is the fact that i have a condo and a new car in bangkok . so money talks again even for none pro .
my biggest problem now is how to manage my time when i get to bangkok in 2 weeks . because i have a girl friend that she would cut my balls if she finds out about these girls .

having played the online game for about 5 years now, i would strongly recommend caution when dealing with any of these girls.

first and foremost, don't ever let them know where your condo is - take them to a hotel, or go to their place. get another phone, separate from your usual phone and use this when communicating with any of them. they may say that they understand that you aren't looking for anything serious. but, trust me, none of them actually buy into this and will get very attached, very fast and will turn psycho, if they think you have someone else.

i've been stalked, threatened with a false pregnancy a few times, threatened with a charge of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and police coming to my condo with the "victim", huge tantrums and crying jags in public, not to mention two incidents of physical assault (not serious, in that neither could punch very hard). but, the punching in one case attracted a group of angry motorcycle taxi guys who just assumed the worst about "the farang" and were ready to beat the crap out of me, until i managed to hop in a taxi and escape.

have fun. but, be careful.

Daddy07
02-05-08, 13:16
... i've been stalked, threatened with a false pregnancy a few times, threatened with a charge of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and police coming to my condo with the "victim", huge tantrums and crying jags in public, not to mention two incidents of physical assault...

and through it all, from start to finish, you were just treating each of them in your usual sweet, lovable, understanding, and good hearted way, right? :d

Old Thai Hand
02-05-08, 15:03
And through it all, from start to finish, you were just treating each of them in your usual sweet, lovable, understanding, and good hearted way, right? :D

absolutely!

Member #2041
02-05-08, 16:43
having played the online game for about 5 years now, i would strongly recommend caution when dealing with any of these girls.

first and foremost, don't ever let them know where your condo is - take them to a hotel, or go to their place. get another phone, separate from your usual phone and use this when communicating with any of them. they may say that they understand that you aren't looking for anything serious. but, trust me, none of them actually buy into this and will get very attached, very fast and will turn psycho, if they think you have someone else.

i've been stalked, threatened with a false pregnancy a few times, threatened with a charge of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and police coming to my condo with the "victim", huge tantrums and crying jags in public, not to mention two incidents of physical assault (not serious, in that neither could punch very hard). but, the punching in one case attracted a group of angry motorcycle taxi guys who just assumed the worst about "the farang" and were ready to beat the crap out of me, until i managed to hop in a taxi and escape.

have fun. but, be careful.
this is completely shocking, given the obviously "better" class of women that you only associate with. perhaps you should try shagging brown-skinned p4p girls fresh off the farm. i've done many dozens, perhaps hundreds of them, and never had this happen. i just pay them and they leave. charlie sheen would be proud.

Love Sex 22
02-05-08, 23:49
having played the online game for about 5 years now, i would strongly recommend caution when dealing with any of these girls.

first and foremost, don't ever let them know where your condo is - take them to a hotel, or go to their place. get another phone, separate from your usual phone and use this when communicating with any of them. they may say that they understand that you aren't looking for anything serious. but, trust me, none of them actually buy into this and will get very attached, very fast and will turn psycho, if they think you have someone else.

i've been stalked, threatened with a false pregnancy a few times, threatened with a charge of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and police coming to my condo with the "victim", huge tantrums and crying jags in public, not to mention two incidents of physical assault (not serious, in that neither could punch very hard). but, the punching in one case attracted a group of angry motorcycle taxi guys who just assumed the worst about "the farang" and were ready to beat the crap out of me, until i managed to hop in a taxi and escape.

have fun. but, be careful.
thats a great idea not taking them to my condo . it would save me a lot of problems. i have already 3 cell phones that part is covered . now i am getting 30 emails every day that i have to answer to but i use the p4p girls method . i send the same email to all the girls but just change the names.
thanks gioto for your sympathy . i might bring few of them to your sport bar .
i will keep you, guys posted .

Yin Yang
02-06-08, 00:28
Love Sex 22,

I also spiced up my recent trip with a few online dates and had good fun - but also a lot of work - with them. From my experience, anything is on offer on those websites. You have the gold-diggers, you have the desperate ones, and you also have some genuine Thai ladies looking for a match. If you spend a couple of hours in the chat rooms, it's relatively easy to separate the wheat from the chaff - and then it's up to you to choose which one you want.

Not all of the ladies will be interested in "good clean fun". Actually, most of them will want more than that, in one way or another. As usual in Thailand, things that are obvious to both sides - such as the fact that each date is just one among many others - tend to be ignored nonetheless. So some ladies who try to monopolize you react very strongly if they realize they can't. To avoid nasty situations, more than one phone number and breaking up the trip into several parts, changing hotel etc. can be useful. As OTH said, some of the girls can become attached more quickly than you may desire. And more often than not, the ones who get attached too quickly are not the ones you would have chosen yourself. Apart from that, however, you can easily have a great time - and save some money too ;)

YY

Quickfix
02-06-08, 00:52
Hi Guys,

Can someone please advise the web sites that they used to meet these Thai girls. Yes i'm aware of the down side just want to look at some.

Thanks

Q

Old Thai Hand
02-06-08, 01:32
This is completely shocking, given the obviously "better" class of women that you only associate with. Perhaps you should try shagging brown-skinned P4P girls fresh off the farm. I've done many dozens, perhaps hundreds of them, and never had this happen. I just pay them and they leave. Charlie Sheen would be proud.

That should read, " 'better' class of woman that I NORMALLY associate with ". :D However, there are some of those online, too. I was just referring to the worst case scenario of my experiences which represents less than 10% of the 70 or so women I have met online. Afterall, as I've stated before, I met both my GF and Gig online and the two of them are true gems. So, one can meet quality girls online. But, it takes some major searching through the drek to find them. I wasn't looking for a GF. But, I luckily found one by accident.

Back in 2003, I started using online websites like AsianEuro, Thailovelinks, and more recently HotorNot, not to mention Hi5 and MSN Personals because it was something different and initially I thought it would be another and certainly easier avenue to pursue, than my usual route. But, most of the girls, while shaggable aren't my personal cup of tea. But, I'm sure they would appeal to many others. While there is a wide variety to choose from, most still seem to come from Isaan, especially Khon Kaen and Udon Thani (I particularly dislike women from these 2 provinces), and the vast majority do seem quite desperate. Also, the quality has dropped considerably in the last couple of years and there are a lot more P4P, or near-P4P now using these sites, under the guise of being "regular" TGs.

I think for someone just coming here on a holiday, it's a good way to go with the advantage of being able to escape after a couple of weeks, without any lingering after-effects. But, for someone living here, it requires considerably more caution and being much more selective.

PinkPearl
02-06-08, 08:05
i've been stalked, threatened with a false pregnancy a few times, threatened with a charge of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and police coming to my condo with the "victim", huge tantrums and crying jags in public, not to mention two incidents of physical assault (not serious, in that neither could punch very hard). but, the punching in one case attracted a group of angry motorcycle taxi guys who just assumed the worst about "the farang" and were ready to beat the crap out of me, until i managed to hop in a taxi and escape.

have fun. but, be careful.from what i've seen and read this is normal behaviour for thai ladies outside the p4p realm. compared to what you describe here, dealing with drug addicted sw *****s in canada is a piece of cake, with p4p tgs being a dream cum true. good luck with your knee operation!

Jungle Bluebird
02-06-08, 13:29
Usually thai girls have the memory of a gold fish. I you do not screw all within the first week nothing will come out of it.

Keep in mind they also get about 100 mails per day. So if you delay, they simple will move on.

I suggest you filter as per your needs. You may ask them to double up - i.e. invite 2 girls at once :-)

But of course they are all 'good girls', so in that sense filtering will work well, as u may end up with just 1 or 2.

Tip: locate ok hotel close to condo or place of work.

JB



...Out of 60 I got 25 Tel # and the promise that they are all waiting for me...

NicFrenchy
02-07-08, 10:10
Usually thai girls have the memory of a gold fish. Funny quote JB LOL, a Gold fish has a 3 seconds memory (which is why it is never bored in the Small Bowl).

Now, Girls have a far better memory than their male counterparts, so I assume Thai Guys all are close to 1sec memory?

Seriously, in my 3 years working with Thais, I have found that they can remember all the things that they like quite well and will never bother to even think about boring stuff. If something is boring, they will not make any effort to remember, but if there is something they think as important, some are better than me at remembering things.

Old Thai Hand
02-07-08, 18:12
From what I've seen and read this is normal behaviour for Thai ladies outside the P4P realm. Compared to what you describe here, dealing with drug addicted SW *****s in Canada is a piece of cake, with P4P TGs being a dream cum true. Good luck with your knee operation!

Thanks. It's actually true in P4P, as well. Thai women in general are just plain psycho. In my early days, I had plenty of P4P girls who went nuts in one way or another. The best thing is to simply 3F and get rid of them.

I was just having dinner with a couple of long-time friends here and one, who after managing to extricate himself from his marriage to a very disturbed HiSo TG was lamenting that the girls he's dated since have been every bit as crazy.

Mental illness, afterall is quite a serious problem here. The role models that TGs find in Thai TV programs only exacerbate the problems.

PinkPearl
02-08-08, 03:40
Thanks. It's actually true in P4P, as well. Thai women in general are just plain psycho. In my early days, I had plenty of P4P girls who went nuts in one way or another. The best thing is to simply 3F and get rid of them.

I was just having dinner with a couple of long-time friends here and one, who after managing to extricate himself from his marriage to a very disturbed HiSo TG was lamenting that the girls he's dated since have been every bit as crazy.

Mental illness, afterall is quite a serious problem here. The role models that TGs find in Thai TV programs only exacerbate the problems.What is 3F, fucking them in 3 holes?

In theory I choose to get rid of them as soon as the deed is done. Any signs they might be a problem...talking to themselves, crying, saying they love me, etc...and they are history, no repeats.

Even though I do not speak Thai, those Thai TV soaps are quite amusing to watch sometimes. I can see from them why TGs are the way they are.

Daddy07
02-08-08, 07:10
What is 3F, fucking them in 3 holes?

Pink,

The 3 F's: Find 'em; Fuck 'em; Forget 'em. Sounds like your usual MO, right?

Regards,
Daddy

Jungle Bluebird
02-08-08, 11:19
PP

I know the 3 F's are your mantra. I agree somewhat though. Had a friend years back who swore he screws each of his conquests only once.

But then again, nothing is sweeter then a little affair in the same office or condo building. It's risky yes, but that only adds to the excitement.

On another note - I find the actual in and out bit the most boring part. Getting there is all the fun. Which completely excludes P4P.

JB



What is 3F, fucking them in 3 holes?

In theory I choose to get rid of them as soon as the deed is done. Any signs they might be a problem. Talking to themselves, crying, saying they love me, etc. And they are history, no repeats.

Even though I do not speak Thai, those Thai TV soaps are quite amusing to watch sometimes. I can see from them why TGs are the way they are.

Daddy07
02-08-08, 12:30
I never cease to be amazed when the working girls, (some completely naked, and others with their tits and asses hanging out of their skimpy dancing outfits), at my favorite hooker bar in Pattaya, all bow together in unison, clasp their hands in front of their faces, and kneel down to pay reverent homage in silence to a Buddha shrine at the back of the bar, while one of them lights incense sticks and makes offerings of food. The ritual lasts for about 1 or 2 minutes, after which, they all resume their nasty bar girl ways. What a wonderful contrast from the Christian cunts in the West. It’s just one of the many reasons why I love this place.

Another small reason: Most of you veterans will know this amazing feminine fact about Thai girls, but I discovered it only by accident while admiring a pretty girl’s legs shortly after shagging her not long ago. “What beautiful legs you have, sweetheart … so smooth and soft as a baby’s butt” I declared. “Thanks,” she purred. “How often do you shave them?,” I queried. “Never,” she curtly replied. “How can this be,” I wondered out loud. “Thai lady not shave legs,” she explained… “Have no hair.” I examine her legs again, this time closely. She was right. There was nothing but peach fuzz to be seen. No stubble at all. Absolutely amazing, I thought. I’ve never heard of such a wonder. Since then I have found it to be true of every girl I meet. Yes, the wonders of LOS never cease. I love this place.

Regards,
Daddy

Member #2041
02-08-08, 16:48
Another small reason: Most of you veterans will know this amazing feminine fact about Thai girls, but I discovered it only by accident while admiring a pretty girl’s legs shortly after shagging her not long ago. “What beautiful legs you have, sweetheart … so smooth and soft as a baby’s butt” I declared. “Thanks,” she purred. “How often do you shave them?,” I queried. “Never,” she curtly replied. “How can this be,” I wondered out loud. “Thai lady not shave legs,” she explained… “Have no hair.” I examine her legs again, this time closely. She was right. There was nothing but peach fuzz to be seen. No stubble at all. Absolutely amazing, I thought. I’ve never heard of such a wonder. Since then I have found it to be true of every girl I meet. Yes, the wonders of LOS never cease. I love this place.

Regards,
Daddy

Even better, a few of my favorite Thai ladies seem to have been blessed totally naturally with with only very small patches of incredibly soft, peach-fuzz-like pussy hair - almost as one would imagine it being in a girl's first year of puberty - but I hasten to add that these were fully adult ladies in their 20s, who never shaved their nether regions. I have come to really enjoy this to a degree that it seems like a fetish. One of these thai ladies was my girlfriend for nearly a year, and I had initially thought that this was somewhat uniquely serendipitous to her - although I have since experienced it in two more of the few dozen or so Thai ladies that I have shagged since then, and from the various surveys that I have done in bars where nude go go dancing is allowed, it seems that this may be common to something around 5% of the female population in Bangkok and Pattaya, although the recent trend toward totally clean shaven pussies in go go bars may be biasing the sample. Strictly in the interest of science, of course, I really need to do more research on this subject.

NicFrenchy
02-08-08, 17:58
Another small reason: Most of you veterans will know this amazing feminine fact about Thai girls, but I discovered it only by accident while admiring a pretty girl’s legs shortly after shagging her not long ago. “What beautiful legs you have, sweetheart … so smooth and soft as a baby’s butt” I declared. “Thanks,” she purred. “How often do you shave them?,” I queried. “Never,” she curtly replied. “How can this be,” I wondered out loud. “Thai lady not shave legs,” she explained… “Have no hair.” I examine her legs again, this time closely. She was right. There was nothing but peach fuzz to be seen. No stubble at all. Absolutely amazing, I thought. I’ve never heard of such a wonder. Since then I have found it to be true of every girl I meet. Yes, the wonders of LOS never cease. I love this place.

Regards,

DaddyInteresting. You obviously don't live here?

Have a good look at the women's legs next time, not P4P, and you'll be surprised. Yes a small portion of the ladies do not have body hair (or a tiny amount) but a lot of them have and it starts at the moustache.

I have encountered a few girls that would scare even Tom Selleck! And I'm not even talking about the ones that wear short skirts and have hairy legs.

I like them to be as Immaculate as Possible (question of taste). Also, a lot of the ladies in my office complain that the Hair Removal creams are pretty expensive and do not work well.

Daddy07
02-09-08, 08:32
Interesting. You obviously don't live here?

Have a good look at the women's legs next time, not P4P, and you'll be surprised. Yes a small portion of the ladies do not have body hair (or a tiny amount) but a lot of them have and it starts at the moustache...

Yes, I do live here now, but only since October --4 months now.

The girl I was with was not P4P. I was amazed and fascinated to meet any girl without hair on her legs, and who did not have to shave at all. I thought it was unique to Thailand or perhaps Aisa. Now you tell me it's only a small percentage ... I'm crushed. :)

I have since met several girls without hairy legs, but now I am intrigued, and in the interest of science, intend to carry on the survey with each new one I meet. I need a much larger sampling in order to get to the bottom if this matter. :)

M P Lurker
02-09-08, 08:36
Interesting. You obviously don't live here?

Have a good look at the women's legs next time, not P4P, and you'll be surprised. Yes a small portion of the ladies do not have body hair (or a tiny amount) but a lot of them have and it starts at the moustache.

I have encountered a few girls that would scare even Tom Selleck! And I'm not even talking about the ones that wear short skirts and have hairy legs.

I like them to be as Immaculate as Possible (question of taste). Also, a lot of the ladies in my office complain that the Hair Removal creams are pretty expensive and do not work well.
Well some a bit of hair and some don't. So Daddy07 was clearly exaggerating a lot.
I haven't noticed much on my current GF from Ubon.
Previous GF from Phitsanulok had a bit of arm and leg hair but didn't notice much above the lip.
Previous GF from Bangkok had none except underarm and pussy.

Once met Thai girl from Issaan somewhere who didn't need to shave her pussy. Only had a little moustache over the top of it. No hair grew each side of the crack. Totally smooth. :p

So in general, Thai girls seem less hairy than Farangs but still varies a lot.

P.S. I don't go for hairy girls either (obviously) :D

Daddy07
02-09-08, 09:40
...Daddy07 was clearly exaggerating a lot.

Well... I may be badly mistaken about all Thai girls, Mick, but I surely do not exaggerate.

Only last night I was fondling one of my favorite go-go dancer's legs, (actuallty both of them, which were smooth as silk BTW), and asked her if she shaves them. "No," she replied, "No have hair." The lighting in the bar prevented any closeup examination, but the feel test was negative.

Is my sampling skewed? Did she lie? Does anyone else have knowledge about this amazing phenomenon? I want to know.

Yin Yang
02-09-08, 22:13
Hi Guys,

Can someone please advise the web sites that they used to meet these Thai girls. Yes i'm aware of the down side just want to look at some.

Thanks

Q
Check the Thai/Asian dating websites mentioned by OTH - AsianEuro and Thailovelinks (both operated by the same company) or ThailandFriends - as well as global ones such as Date.com and MSN. General networking sites such as Hi5 and Friendster are also quite popular with TGs.

YY

NicFrenchy
02-10-08, 01:46
So in general, Thai girls seem less hairy than Farangs but still varies a lot.

P.S. I don't go for hairy girls either (obviously) :DWell, I wasn't saying that Daddy07 exagerated, I believe there are a lot of asians that do not have body hair, but my point was that of all the ones that do, few remove them.

The difference with Farang women is that they remove their body hair.

It is a big deal for me, if I see a girl with hairy arms or Legs, it's a huge turnoff. Mayumi @ Akane Chidlom had a pack of hair on her arms.

M P Lurker
02-12-08, 16:20
Well... I may be badly mistaken about all Thai girls, Mick, but I surely do not exaggerate.

Only last night I was fondling one of my favorite go-go dancer's legs, (actuallty both of them, which were smooth as silk BTW), and asked her if she shaves them. "No," she replied, "No have hair." The lighting in the bar prevented any closeup examination, but the feel test was negative.

Is my sampling skewed? Did she lie? Does anyone else have knowledge about this amazing phenomenon? I want to know.
Well Daddy07,
Surely you have met a lot of Thai girls, and "sampled" lots intimately. :D
So it seemed like an exaggeration to say the EVERY Thai girl you meet has virtually "no" leg hair. But I am being tough since not every girl is subject to close scrutiny.
Maybe you never wanted to fuck any hairy ones ;)

My ex-GF had a little arm hair and was easier to see than mine since quite black. She may have shaved her legs. I don't remember clearly.

Daddy07
02-12-08, 17:01
Well Daddy07,
Surely you have met a lot of Thai girls, and "sampled" lots intimately. :D
So it seemed like an exaggeration to say the EVERY Thai girl you meet has virtually "no" leg hair. But I am being tough since not every girl is subject to close scrutiny.
Maybe you never wanted to fuck any hairy ones ;)

My ex-GF had a little arm hair and was easier to see than mine since quite black. She may have shaved her legs. I don't remember clearly.

The matter never came to my attention until a few weeks ago when I was laying in bed with a lovely girl and the subject came up. She told me that Thai girls don't have to shave their legs. I examined her legs closely and saw hair but it was only peach fuzz the same as you might see on a lady's face. Her legs were soooth to the touch. I was amazed.

I have been with probably a dozen or more girls since then and checked each one of them for leg hair, just for the fun of it. None of them shave their legs and all told me that Thai girls don't need to shave. I'm sure there must be some exceptions, but I've yet to find one. You're right, I would be turned off by body hair on a woman. I like shaved pussies too and would love to find one naturally bald. What a turn on!!!

BTW -- Your ex gf looks like a sweetheart. I'm betting she doesn't have to shave. :)

Regards,
Daddy

Thaid Up
02-12-08, 17:39
Well, I wasn't saying that Daddy07 exagerated, I believe there are a lot of asians that do not have body hair, but my point was that of all the ones that do, few remove them.

The difference with Farang women is that they remove their body hair.

It is a big deal for me, if I see a girl with hairy arms or Legs, it's a huge turnoff. Mayumi @ Akane Chidlom had a pack of hair on her arms.

I thought the French were use to girls with hairy arm pits.

I have yet to see a TG with hairy arm pits. Most TG's I know actually pluck them out one by one. I have seen some TG's with hairy legs usually some office girl on the skytrain or subway.

NicFrenchy
02-13-08, 04:07
I thought the French were use to girls with hairy arm pits.Very funny.

NicFrenchy
02-13-08, 08:00
Do you mind explain how you get this girls to do this stuff? I've been chatting around with camfrog for the past two weeks. Seldom any luck at all, as most of them have I'm on invite only, and nobody want to chat with a farang it seems. Please share your knowledge

Thanks a million!Well, Camfrog is very good in terms of meeting Thai Chicks.

First things first, Camfrog is a Video Chat Program so if you do not have a Cam it is better to forget about using camfrog.

Second, I would advise to upgrade to a Pro Version (I am in the process of doing so) as it really makes your camfrog life easier.

Third, Once you enter a room and find a girl you would like to get in contact with, send her compliments and cute Smilies via the Main Board.

Telling these Girls "Big Cock on Cam" or "Private Show by German stud" will not work, for one, they will probably think you are a dickhead and they also probably get these invitations 10 times per hour.

Be Gentleman-like, do not be obsessed writing her name 50 times in a period of 5 minutes, this will freak her out along with all other Room members and you will most probably end up getting kicked out.

Before any response from the girl, they will generally look at your cam first to see who you are so, again, if you do not have a Cam it is better to forget about using camfrog (as a mean to get phone numbers).

If the lady likes what she sees, she will reply on the main Forum, with Basic Questions (who you are, if you are in Thailand...), from this point on, you can suggest her to take it to IM (Camfrog's instant Private Messenger); I never initiate IMs, I always ask the girls to IM me and leave it up to them, I think they like the fact that I am not pressuring them and usually IM me.

Some girls will also be in 4 or 5 IM conversations at the same time so be patient.

Your goal in an IM chat is to be funny and intriguing, Thai girls are easily bored and you need to keep the chat simple and as entertaining as possible so she does not leave.

Once she is locked in, start talking kinky and see where it goes, some girls will be up for it and others won't, ask if you can give her your Mobile and see what she says, if she is positive then she is serious about meeting.

Also, as a rule, I never answer IMs from Girls with No Cams. I like to see who I am talking to as there are a lot of LBs and Gays using Camfrog.

Last tip I can give you: if you want to be noticed by the girls it is best you stay in the rooms with a low amount of people, the more people the less chances you have and on the Thailang Forums, speaking English is very hard for the girls.

Good luck and let me know how it went.

NicFrenchy
02-13-08, 08:09
Richo,

Look at these 2 reports (same Experience from a Camfrog girl), they will give you an idea of the potential Camfrog Has.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=698028&postcount=974
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=698030&postcount=975

M P Lurker
02-13-08, 09:33
BTW -- Your ex gf looks like a sweetheart. I'm betting she doesn't have to shave. :)

Regards,
Daddy
Well my ex did at least keep er bush trimmed nicely.
She was a DATY lover so obviously saw fit to assist by keeping trimmed.
Gave her a vibe too but she was always too shy to discuss it or
to let me see her use it.

Current GF is more wayward. She is O.K. with me watching her use the vibe.
Even wants DATY and vibe inside her at the same time.
She can't say quiet when worked up as well.

I do prefer bald pussy myself as well but mostly only P4P girls are willing to put in the almost daily shaving. There is plenty of bald pussy at Suzi-wong and I like that.
When I took bi-girls from Suzi-wong they shaved their pussies before the session in order to get maximum enjoyment from the mutual pussy licking.
Now that is thoughtful.

I don't really go for "big bush" that can often be found in very amateur Thai girls.
One service waitress from Doll's House was like that. Long bush and never been with a customer. The down side was she didn't know much about fucking or blow job technique so on the 2nd time I was totally bored with her.
First time she was better I think only because we were both drunk, although she more than me.

Jungle Bluebird
02-14-08, 05:35
Nic

Be careful. You may suddenly look into the face of one of your employees :-)

JB



Well, Camfrog is very good in terms of meeting Thai Chicks.

First things first, Camfrog is a Video Chat Program so if you do not have a Cam it is better to forget about using camfrog.

Second, I would advise to upgrade to a Pro Version (I am in the process of doing so) as it really makes your camfrog life easier.

Third, Once you enter a room and find a girl you would like to get in contact with, send her compliments and cute Smilies via the Main Board.

Telling these Girls "Big Cock on Cam" or "Private Show by German stud" will not work, for one, they will probably think you are a dickhead and they also probably get these invitations 10 times per hour.

Be Gentleman-like, do not be obsessed writing her name 50 times in a period of 5 minutes, this will freak her out along with all other Room members and you will most probably end up getting kicked out.

Before any response from the girl, they will generally look at your cam first to see who you are so, again, if you do not have a Cam it is better to forget about using camfrog (as a mean to get phone numbers).

If the lady likes what she sees, she will reply on the main Forum, with Basic Questions (who you are, if you are in Thailand...), from this point on, you can suggest her to take it to IM (Camfrog's instant Private Messenger); I never initiate IMs, I always ask the girls to IM me and leave it up to them, I think they like the fact that I am not pressuring them and usually IM me.

Some girls will also be in 4 or 5 IM conversations at the same time so be patient.

Your goal in an IM chat is to be funny and intriguing, Thai girls are easily bored and you need to keep the chat simple and as entertaining as possible so she does not leave.

Once she is locked in, start talking kinky and see where it goes, some girls will be up for it and others won't, ask if you can give her your Mobile and see what she says, if she is positive then she is serious about meeting.

Also, as a rule, I never answer IMs from Girls with No Cams. I like to see who I am talking to as there are a lot of LBs and Gays using Camfrog.

Last tip I can give you: if you want to be noticed by the girls it is best you stay in the rooms with a low amount of people, the more people the less chances you have and on the Thailang Forums, speaking English is very hard for the girls.

Good luck and let me know how it went.

NicFrenchy
02-14-08, 05:50
Nic

Be careful. You may suddenly look into the face of one of your employees :-)

JBMmmmhhh, I think you may be right! I never really thought about it but this could very well happen. No worries, I'll deal with it when it comes.

Jungle Bluebird
02-14-08, 11:54
Or worse Nic

They also take snaphots or copy/film your online activities. Next thing you know your pic goes out in a mass MSN CC mailer.

Don't think it's worth the risk - after all you live here.

JB




Mmmmhhh, I think you may be right! I never really thought about it but this could very well happen. No worries, I'll deal with it when it comes.

NicFrenchy
02-14-08, 19:15
Or worse Nic

They also take snaphots or copy/film your online activities. Next thing you know your pic goes out in a mass MSN CC mailer.

Don't think it's worth the risk - after all you live here.

JBNot really. When I show myself (naked it is), It is always on 1 on 1 video Chat ;)

I did strip once because a Chick asked me, but I made sure to Logoff and invite her to a remote room of my choice where I never showed my face and logged in as another Username. I am indeed careful.

Animby
02-16-08, 21:33
I do prefer bald pussy myself

I really like pussy. Hairless or hairy. What I don't like is a pussy that was shave three days ago. Ouch. I don't cause that irritation while DATY (I have a nice soft beard) and I don;t like to get the sandpaper treatment in return.

My current ladyfriend keeps it trimmed nicely, just long enough to be soft. And, like most Thai girls I've known, has no hair on her legs and plucks the hair from her pits. OUch!

Once, someone told me there are ethnic Burmese women who simply do not grow hair in their crotch. I could enjoy that.

Many years ago, I dated a Sri Lankan woman who only grew a couple of dozen hairs on her ****. She tended to pluck them rather than shave. Aren't girls fascinating?

Daddy07
02-17-08, 02:28
... And, like most Thai girls I've known, has no hair on her legs...

So... there you have it Mick, from the forum physician, and without exaggeration ... Most Thai girls he has known have no hair on their legs. Amazing!!! :)

NicFrenchy
02-17-08, 06:33
.. Most Thai girls he has known have no hair on their legs. Amazing!!! :)Curious to know how many are non P4P?

M P Lurker
02-17-08, 14:33
So... there you have it Mick, from the forum physician, and without exaggeration ... Most Thai girls he has known have no hair on their legs. Amazing!!! :)
I am happy with "most". Its not quite the same as "all" or "every".

Jungle Bluebird
02-18-08, 07:03
Animby, I like them with or without hair. Nothing is worse though than smelling pussy :-)

At first you don't notice, but then u glide your hand down there and bang, the revolting smell of dead fish or somewhat close to French cheese (sorry Nic).

Amazing, instantly the entire room smells. Takes multiple washes to get that stink of your hands... So what to do. Stop right there and say..'sorry my dear, your pussy stinks of cheese..'?

Do Thai pussies smell less that western pussies?

JB



I really like pussy. Hairless or hairy. What I don't like is a pussy that was shave three days ago. Ouch. I don't cause that irritation while DATY (I have a nice soft beard) and I don;t like to get the sandpaper treatment in return.

My current ladyfriend keeps it trimmed nicely, just long enough to be soft. And, like most Thai girls I've known, has no hair on her legs and plucks the hair from her pits. OUch!

Once, someone told me there are ethnic Burmese women who simply do not grow hair in their crotch. I could enjoy that.

Many years ago, I dated a Sri Lankan woman who only grew a couple of dozen hairs on her ****. She tended to pluck them rather than shave. Aren't girls fascinating?

Rubber Nursey
02-18-08, 07:27
Curious to know how many are non P4P?
None. Hookers are an entirely different species, with completely different biology to regular girls. ;)

Sorry, just kidding. Couldn't help myself. I once had a client tell me it was a shame that 'regular' girls couldn't do paid sex, because they got periods..whereas hookers didn't get them. (???) Another guy said he wished his wife had whatever 'gene' it is that makes hookers enjoy sex. Both of them were totally serious! :)

M P Lurker
02-18-08, 09:49
None. Hookers are an entirely different species, with completely different biology to regular girls. ;)

Sorry, just kidding. Couldn't help myself.

Not sure if you misunderstood on purpose just for the joke or perhaps Nic was a little bit brief.

But Nic was probably trying to indicate that the P4P girls were a lot more careful about removing arm and leg hair than the regular Thai girls (who often didn't worry about it at all).

My ex Thai GF had some arm and leg hair (not massive amounts). It did not put me off as was not excessive. On the other hand Daddy07 was claiming that Thai girls just don't have arm and leg hair at all.
Nic was probably trying to indicate that some P4P girls were cheating and secretly shaved or removed the hair but wouldn't admit it.

Rubber Nursey
02-18-08, 10:02
Not sure if you misunderstood on purpose just for the joke or perhaps Nic was a little bit brief.
No, I was just kidding. :)

Battu Co
02-18-08, 10:25
Not sure if you misunderstood on purpose just for the joke or perhaps Nic was a little bit brief.

But Nic was probably trying to indicate that the P4P girls were a lot more careful about removing arm and leg hair than the regular Thai girls (who often didn't worry about it at all).A LOT of South East Asian women (thai, burmese, philipina, indonesian) don't have to shave their legs. Few of them don't have to shave their under arms. And a small number of em don't have to shave their pussies ever. Because there's nothing to shave. P4P or not.

I've met about a dozen of naturally completely hairless women (adults) most only have a dozen hair down there. Mostly indonesian though, only 1 thai.

NicFrenchy
02-21-08, 04:20
None. Hookers are an entirely different species, with completely different biology to regular girls. ;)

Sorry, just kidding. :) You got a smile out of me with that one :)

Lover Boy #2
02-24-08, 07:15
Here is a beautiful love story;

http://www.pattayatoday.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=2823

Playing with these Thai girls can be a dangerous game.....not for beginners....and sometimes even the experienced can get fu cked in the rear. It appears as though David was not aware as to the system of updating passbooks in Thailand....and of legal documents. Advice to all....Don't do it!!

Lover Boy #2
02-24-08, 07:18
Animby, I like them with or without hair. Nothing is worse though than smelling pussy :-)

At first you don't notice, but then u glide your hand down there and bang, the revolting smell of dead fish or somewhat close to French cheese (sorry Nic).

Amazing, instantly the entire room smells. Takes multiple washes to get that stink of your hands... So what to do. Stop right there and say..'sorry my dear, your pussy stinks of cheese..'?

Do Thai pussies smell less that western pussies?

JB

I would say that Thai girls, for the most part, are some of the cleanest and freshest around. Showering...and cleaning "down there"....seems to be ingrained from early childhood. Thai girls are taught that their pussy is "min"(dirty)......so they are always trying to keep it clean. I have had the lowest rate of stink pot in Thailand than anywhere else.

Even the girl known as "Lek" in the previous post.....I am sure, was quite nice smelling....even though she was a rotten, stink'in bi tc h!

Old Thai Hand
02-24-08, 13:29
Here is a beautiful love story;

http://www.pattayatoday.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=2823

Playing with these Thai girls can be a dangerous game.....not for beginners....and sometimes even the experienced can get fu cked in the rear. It appears as though David was not aware as to the system of updating passbooks in Thailand....and of legal documents. Advice to all....Don't do it!!

This scenario is so old it creaks.

I'd be interested to know where he met the girl. If she was as I suspect a P4P girl, the guy deserves everything he got. Just plain stupid!

Lover Boy #2
02-25-08, 10:05
This scenario is so old it creaks.

I'd be interested to know where he met the girl. If she was as I suspect a P4P girl, the guy deserves everything he got. Just plain stupid!


This is where we differ a bit in terms of our feelings towards a poor soul like "David". To say that "the guy deserves everything he got"....is a bit harsh and lacks some degree of human emotion toward our fellow man. David looks like an optimist to me, a man who found his dream both in a woman and the land he was able to find for development. His dream was to work hard out of the country and bring back stacks of cash to fund his dreams. I think he had a plan to begin with.

A lot of men seek love in all the wrong places. Thailand in general might be one of those places. With it's mix of beautiful, available women....an air of business opportunity at the surface and an antiquated, nationalistic, racist policy towards land ownership, the chemical components are all present for a complete cluster fu ck. If you use a solicitor to purchase land, you are immediately forced into what amounts to an illegal transaction (nominee corporation)...or you end up with a Thai partner and a land lease for 30 years (even though some well respected Thai officials argue that only 20 year leases are enforceable under "Thai law"). So, you start out with a mess before you even get started.

Everyone wants to be loved......whether you have a suspicion that the girl was P4P or not, isn't really germaine...this girl was David's love and he was happy at some point in all of this. This love defined his life, because he was willing to work out of Thailand to bring money back and communicate with his partner regularly. This situation was the most important thing to him. He must have been shattered when the rip off became apparent. I suspect that some level of this (including intoxication) is a primary reason for a lot of farang flyers out the windows of high rises in Jomtien that we all read about from time to time.

When you say that he was "just plain stupid!", on the face of it that looks true. However, love and dreams make people do stupid things. There are armies of men out there who don't read posts on this forum, don't read local newspapers and are clueless as to what goes on. They get led around like the cattle with rings in their noses that one can see in any Thai rural area. They are in love and have a dream. They are not the kind of guys who do "due dilligence" when buying investments in the share and securities markets either. They usually lose their money on these investments too. It is really not stupidity as such, I think it is a version of hopeing for the best by people who do not have the mindset to research everything to death. There are many people who have a dream and plod on......especially when love and a change of lifestyle are components. These guys do get fu cked in Thailand because it is a treacherous place to those who do not know what the game is and how it is played. For a person to succeed here, you have be calculated, not research averse and strong when the time comes to take back a situation that has gone wrong. A lot of people are not like this and they are playing with fire as a result. I think stupidity is a simplistic term to describe a complicated psychological, cultural, political and at times, criminal force which all act upon initial naďveté.

I think that David deserved to find his dream and be successful (if he was a true chai-dee)...the girl obviously believed that she deserved all his money and to be done with him. It appears as though their goals were at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

My reason for posting the initial story was to display the kind of things that go on out there in Thailand and in other places too. What makes these things worse in Thailand is that you are faced with a police and legal system that looks at you as a farang soi dog. When you study the laws here, it almost looks like the government and legislators start out with a plan to bring money and investment potential to girls and their Thai male cohorts who are adept at embezzlement and common thievery. If you don't understand how this game is played, you lose, simple as that.

If you don't have the time to know what the game is and learn how to play.....Don't do it!! You will lose your money and your "love" for sure.

Animby
02-26-08, 17:33
Nothing is worse though than smelling pussy :-)
... So what to do. Stop right there and say..'sorry my dear, your pussy stinks of cheese..'?
Do Thai pussies smell less that western pussies?JB

Bluebird, Once upon a time I was working in an ER when a woman came in complaining of abdominal cramping. The nurse decided I would want to do a pelvic exam on the patient and took her into an examination room to get her ready. When I showed up, the nurse was standing outside, looking green and warning me of the worst smells of my life. You get used to these things in an Emergency Room. She wasn't used to this smell, though.

We both put on masks, treated the filthiest vagina I've ever encountered and then admitted her to the gynecology ward - who immediately removed our names from their Christmas card list. That was nasty. Took housekeeping hours to get the smell out.

The thing is, though, the pussy has a wonderful natural ability to keep itself clean. It takes really bad personal hygiene (or a disease, of course) to make a pussy smell bad. Asian women are generally taught from a very early age that the vagina is unclean so they take very good care of it. It gets washed frequently. So you're unlikely to find one that smells UNLESS it's sick.

So, in answer to your question: "So what to do. Stop right there and say..'sorry my dear, your pussy stinks of cheese..'?" Yes. Stop. It's already sick. Don't make it sicker. Don't make yourself sick. Quit. Stop. Get dressed. Remember you have an important appointment in Chicago. Get the hell out. If you've got the balls, tell her why you've stopped. Maybe she'll go see a doctor.

By the way, let's assume you someday get a long term girlfriend or even a wife. Do not assume by encouraging her to douche frequently that you will have many years of happy, smell free, dining at the Y. Frequent douching will overcome the natural cleaning ability of the pussy and make it more likely to get sick sometime.

Happy Smells.

Giotto
02-26-08, 19:25
...
and then admitted her to the gynecology ward - who immediately removed our names from their Christmas card list.
...
Remember you have an important appointment in Chicago.
...
Animby,

LOL. Excellent post!


Giotto

Jungle Bluebird
02-27-08, 07:22
Animby

Ok, so things could get worse.

But, are some women blessed with a more neutral odor than others?

JB





Bluebird, Once upon a time I was working in an ER when a woman came in complaining of abdominal cramping. The nurse decided I would want to do a pelvic exam on the patient and took her into an examination room to get her ready. When I showed up, the nurse was standing outside, looking green and warning me of the worst smells of my life. You get used to these things in an Emergency Room. She wasn't used to this smell, though.

We both put on masks, treated the filthiest vagina I've ever encountered and then admitted her to the gynecology ward - who immediately removed our names from their Christmas card list. That was nasty. Took housekeeping hours to get the smell out.

The thing is, though, the pussy has a wonderful natural ability to keep itself clean. It takes really bad personal hygiene (or a disease, of course) to make a pussy smell bad. Asian women are generally taught from a very early age that the vagina is unclean so they take very good care of it. It gets washed frequently. So you're unlikely to find one that smells UNLESS it's sick.

So, in answer to your question: "So what to do. Stop right there and say..'sorry my dear, your pussy stinks of cheese..'?" Yes. Stop. It's already sick. Don't make it sicker. Don't make yourself sick. Quit. Stop. Get dressed. Remember you have an important appointment in Chicago. Get the hell out. If you've got the balls, tell her why you've stopped. Maybe she'll go see a doctor.

By the way, let's assume you someday get a long term girlfriend or even a wife. Do not assume by encouraging her to douche frequently that you will have many years of happy, smell free, dining at the Y. Frequent douching will overcome the natural cleaning ability of the pussy and make it more likely to get sick sometime.

Happy Smells.

PosterLion
02-27-08, 08:29
. . . and truths such as these rise up before our eyes like a beautiful apparition, filling our hearts with the hope of a siren's song.

We do not hear the sound of splintering wood, nor do we feel the sharp sting of salt water in our eyes until the last moment of our last breath, high up on the cliffs of the heart we see the obscenity laughing.

Sinking into our fateful abyss, we fight the pain of our stinging lungs while struggling for a final glimpse of what seemed corporal, melting as a breath into a torrent wind of truth.


David was left to stare at the worthless pieces of paper for a moment before asking if they could charge her with forgery. The solicitor replied it would be very hard to prove she was the one who forged the signatures and in any case, the documents were not legal. Until properly witnessed and notarized, they were simply pieces of paper and anyone could write what they like on them. Technically, it was illegal for a Thai to purchase land on behalf of a foreigner but since no land was purchased, no crime was committed.

I can certainly feel a bit of sorrow and sympathy for Dave.

But on the other hand, in this case, I feel I must side with OTH.


David brought his savings with him and they deposited it all in a special savings account Lek had opened for that purpose.

Come on Dave! Bank accounts work the same way everywhere! I am married to a Thai woman and we have a joint bank account together, but do you think I am so stupid that I would actually put my SAVINGS in there?

poster

Warbucks
02-27-08, 09:17
This is where we differ a bit in terms of our feelings towards a poor soul like "David". To say that "the guy deserves everything he got"....is a bit harsh and lacks some degree of human emotion toward our fellow man. David looks like an optimist to me, a man who found his dream both in a woman and the land he was able to find for development. His dream was to work hard out of the country and bring back stacks of cash to fund his dreams. I think he had a plan to begin with.

A lot of men seek love in all the wrong places. Thailand in general might be one of those places. With it's mix of beautiful, available women....an air of business opportunity at the surface and an antiquated, nationalistic, racist policy towards land ownership, the chemical components are all present for a complete cluster fu ck. If you use a solicitor to purchase land, you are immediately forced into what amounts to an illegal transaction (nominee corporation)...or you end up with a Thai partner and a land lease for 30 years (even though some well respected Thai officials argue that only 20 year leases are enforceable under "Thai law"). So, you start out with a mess before you even get started.

Everyone wants to be loved......whether you have a suspicion that the girl was P4P or not, isn't really germaine...this girl was David's love and he was happy at some point in all of this. This love defined his life, because he was willing to work out of Thailand to bring money back and communicate with his partner regularly. This situation was the most important thing to him. He must have been shattered when the rip off became apparent. I suspect that some level of this (including intoxication) is a primary reason for a lot of farang flyers out the windows of high rises in Jomtien that we all read about from time to time.

When you say that he was "just plain stupid!", on the face of it that looks true. However, love and dreams make people do stupid things. There are armies of men out there who don't read posts on this forum, don't read local newspapers and are clueless as to what goes on. They get led around like the cattle with rings in their noses that one can see in any Thai rural area. They are in love and have a dream. They are not the kind of guys who do "due dilligence" when buying investments in the share and securities markets either. They usually lose their money on these investments too. It is really not stupidity as such, I think it is a version of hopeing for the best by people who do not have the mindset to research everything to death. There are many people who have a dream and plod on......especially when love and a change of lifestyle are components. These guys do get fu cked in Thailand because it is a treacherous place to those who do not know what the game is and how it is played. For a person to succeed here, you have be calculated, not research averse and strong when the time comes to take back a situation that has gone wrong. A lot of people are not like this and they are playing with fire as a result. I think stupidity is a simplistic term to describe a complicated psychological, cultural, political and at times, criminal force which all act upon initial naďveté.

I think that David deserved to find his dream and be successful (if he was a true chai-dee)...the girl obviously believed that she deserved all his money and to be done with him. It appears as though their goals were at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

My reason for posting the initial story was to display the kind of things that go on out there in Thailand and in other places too. What makes these things worse in Thailand is that you are faced with a police and legal system that looks at you as a farang soi dog. When you study the laws here, it almost looks like the government and legislators start out with a plan to bring money and investment potential to girls and their Thai male cohorts who are adept at embezzlement and common thievery. If you don't understand how this game is played, you lose, simple as that.

If you don't have the time to know what the game is and learn how to play.....Don't do it!! You will lose your money and your "love" for sure.

There just too many of these stories about Thailand and the ladies of the night floating around for a person to miss them sorry.

Take it sleazy

M P Lurker
02-28-08, 10:13
The thing is, though, the pussy has a wonderful natural ability to keep itself clean. It takes really bad personal hygiene (or a disease, of course) to make a pussy smell bad. Asian women are generally taught from a very early age that the vagina is unclean so they take very good care of it. It gets washed frequently. So you're unlikely to find one that smells UNLESS it's sick.

Animby,

One thing that puzzles me. Some of my GFs had no detectable odour when it was their period. On the other hand I have met girls having a period that were so rank, while still fully clothed, that I almost feinted.
I do have a big and sensitive nose.

Does a foul smell during a period mean something is drastically wrong?

A little bit of period blood doesn't freak me out assuming I am protected, unless it smells real bad.
Mostly Thai girls will not have sex during their periods (unless unexpected) where as western women ofetn will.
Do Thai girls really think we can be a hermit for nearly a week?
That was a "retoracle" question (if I could spell it right) :)

Mick

NicFrenchy
02-29-08, 04:24
I have met girls having a period that were so rank, while still fully clothed, that I almost feinted.Mick, how many times Have I told you to stay off the Calcutta Streets?

Serioulsy, your comment grossed me out, she would smell while fully clothed? wow!

M P Lurker
03-01-08, 09:09
Mick, how many times Have I told you to stay off the Calcutta Streets?

Serioulsy, your comment grossed me out, she would smell while fully clothed? wow!
One was Farang, and another was half Thai - half Jamaican (so she said).

As I said, I am very sensitive to strong body odours, and some people sure have it.
But a bit of blood from a period suddenly arriving unexpectedly doesn't freak me out if there is no stink.

I told a work mate he was a "bit on the nose" at times once (actually he was putrid at times), and all this summer he has been fantastically improved. All my work mates have congratulated me for having the balls to tell him. Don't know what action he took, but improvement has been massive.

Animby
03-02-08, 09:12
but, are some women blessed with a more neutral odor than others?jb

try this experiment: go out and eat a pound of asparagus. tomorrow, give your [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) a sniff.

a healthy vagina will smell very much like what the woman eats. if she eats a lot of spicy curry, so will you.

neutral? what you find neutral, a thai man mind find tasteless.

hey, it works two ways, you know: when your lady deigns to a cim experience, she'll find it tastes a lot like stale beer and cigarettes. good reasons to quit smoking and tank up on oj.

had a girlfriend in new york once. almost every week we'd go out for thai food. probably how i grew to have a taste for day-old panaeng muu!

Animby
03-02-08, 09:41
Some of my GFs had no detectable odour when it was their period. On the other hand I have met girls having a period that were so rank, while still fully clothed, that I almost feinted.
Does a foul smell during a period mean something is drastically wrong?

Well, Mick, I'm not a gynecologist or an endocrinologist. Just an enthusiastic GP. But I can tell you this: when the period arrives or when they ovulate, women's hormones undergo some major, rapid changes. Personally, I am very sensitive to the ketones many women produce when they ovulate. I can smell their breath a block away! Healthy women produce a whole range of volatile chemicals that are expelled in their breath. Perhaps this is what you're smelling.

Other than that, I wrote earlier about the effects of diet on the odors. Many women get cravings during their cycles and quite a few forget to keep drinking fluids. So, if you get a strong smell from foods eaten and combine it with concentration of the fluids from minor dehydration, you could get some nasty smells without being sick.

However, so strong you nearly fainted just standing nearby? Do you know for a fact she didn't smell equally bad a week earlier? Sounds like a hygiene problem to me.

M P Lurker
03-02-08, 11:00
Well, Mick, I'm not a gynecologist or an endocrinologist. Just an enthusiastic GP. But I can tell you this: when the period arrives or when they ovulate, women's hormones undergo some major, rapid changes. Personally, I am very sensitive to the ketones many women produce when they ovulate. I can smell their breath a block away! Healthy women produce a whole range of volatile chemicals that are expelled in their breath. Perhaps this is what you're smelling.

Other than that, I wrote earlier about the effects of diet on the odors. Many women get cravings during their cycles and quite a few forget to keep drinking fluids. So, if you get a strong smell from foods eaten and combine it with concentration of the fluids from minor dehydration, you could get some nasty smells without being sick.

However, so strong you nearly fainted just standing nearby? Do you know for a fact she didn't smell equally bad a week earlier? Sounds like a hygiene problem to me.
Well no. These girls were normally smelling nice.
I was even dating one of them. But when I went to help her with her computer program (uni student many years ago) she seemed to have a powerful abnormal smell (she was wearing jeans which was unusual for her - normally dresses). It was not not oral and I assumed it was a bad period smell coming from the pussy. Not a garlic or under-arm type of smell but quite bad.

Animby
03-07-08, 10:55
(...many years ago) she seemed to have a powerful abnormal smell (she was wearing jeans which was unusual for her - normally dresses). It was not not oral and I assumed it was a bad period smell coming from the pussy. Not a garlic or under-arm type of smell but quite bad.

You the really nice thing about being a doctor? You can ask people about these things and, if you do it with some discretion, no one cares. However, for me to make a diagnosis years later, over the internet from an observer (as opposed to the individual) is nigh on impossible. You've made it worse, though. This smell came THROUGH her jeans? Yikes.

I'm betting it was not her period you were smelling but either a vaginal yeast infection or possibly an intestinal amoebic infection.

In either case, I'm betting she's better by now. You should look her up.

Zarnon
03-11-08, 16:16
Animby;

Hello Dr. Friend. Heh.

Why not bacterial vaginosis? It far outstrips yeast in frequency and has a very distinct 'fishy' smell. Intestinal amoeba would be way down on the list as it would present differently (lots of abdominal symptoms and diarrheah).

Not saying anyone has, but don't confuse vaginosis with an STD. They can occur for a variety of reasons, any of which disrupt the natural vaginal flora.

Gotta get a diagnosis as treating it incorrectly (say treating it as yeast but it's bacterial) is a terrible idea as it will make it worse.

Hitting them both at once and hoping you knock it out is a less bad idea but still bad. You don't want to mess the 'good' bacterial in the vag any more than you have to. Diagnosis takes a few minutes in the right lab.

Conjecture on this stuff drives me batty. "Pharmacists" in Thailand know jack all about disease or diagnosis. Anyone can be an antiobiotic dispenser.

Dr. K

Gangles
03-12-08, 03:34
I have a regular gf in Bangkok, who was introduced by a mutual friend. Both are straight regular Thai women. My gf, Miss T, comes from a middle class family, and does not need money from me. However, I have funded her for some English classes. She has a regular job that enables her to pay her bills. I have visited her family, and they are pretty well off, nice house, good business, couple of trucks, couple of cars etc. Miss T shares a house with her friend, Miss U. Miss T also has two other close friends, Miss V and Miss W.

I had met Miss U and Miss V last time I was in Thailand, and I thought that they were pretty well off, both had falang bf, and were independent. Well, that is what I thought, but I know a bit more now.

Miss U had an American bf. She became pregnant some time ago, in March 2007, and the baby was born in December. She says, and I assumed that he was the father, but I can not be sure now. He found her in a karaoke bar, barfined her, and eventually pulled her out of the bar and set her up with a regular allowance. He is about to cut the allowance next month. I tell her that she can follow through with this through the American Embassy, and register the baby as an American citizen, but she will not, which makes me think that maybe the kid is not his, and maybe she was having it off with at least one other falang at the time.

I also believe that she was having other customers while her US bf was not there, and while she was pregnant, possibly right up to September.

When the allowance stops, Miss U plans to go to work in a bar, as a regular bargirl, like before. Meanwhile, she spends all night trawling the net for foreigners, but doesn’t seem to follow through to form any sort of meaningful base for communication, and in the end, they stop. I shot some very complimentary photos, which have increased the number of hits she gets substantially, but nothing seems to have come of it.

Miss V is tall, slim, intelligent, articulate and glamorous. She is studying IT. She has a well respected falang bf, with whom she has lived for quite some years in a very respectable address. Her bf funds her and completely supports her. I thought that this is the ideal story of falang and Thai relationship.

However, now I know that he pulled her from a bar, where she worked as a bargirl. He set her up, took her into his house, turned her into the glamorous woman she now is. But she has two other regular bf. She has taken an apartment nearby so that she can spend periods of time with him, telling the regular bf that she has gone home to visit her mother. Meanwhile, the third bf visits her regularly. Both second and third bf’s pay handsomely. We were supposed to meet up with Miss V one evening, but she texted to say that she has hooked up with another falang customer for the evening and cannot come. The first bf knows nothing of this, and to me he must be blind, or stupid, or both.

Muss W is short, well proportioned and full of bubbling fun. She has a regular falang bf who regularly sends money from abroad. He comes for blocks of time, which she spends with him. She has another falang bf who is closer to home, who she meets when he calls, and is paid for her services. Anytime that money gets a bit short, she heads to Soi 4, Nana, to hawk the fork as a fl. Sometimes she gets calls throughout the day from previous customers, so she flies off to another assignation.

This has had an interesting effect on me. I have no argument with prostitutes, and prostitution. And on this trip, I have used 4 prostitutes out of the 13 women that I have slept with. But when the woman is a friend, like Miss W, I feel protective toward her, and I don’t want her to go out. At least she is honest about her business, and is not being deceptive, towards me and her friends. I have no respect for Miss V, who was given a dream life by her bf, but who is deceiving him, not respecting him for what he has done, and behaving as any ordinary prostitute. I am ambivalent about Miss U, on the one hand sort of supportive, yet I suspect that most of her story is lies, and so I have little respect.

So, there you have it.

Gangles

NicFrenchy
03-12-08, 04:34
I have no respect for Miss V, who was given a dream life by her bf, but who is deceiving him, not respecting him for what he has done, and behaving as any ordinary prostitute.Nice report Gangles!

You actually bring up a very interesting Subject and I think along the same lines. I am a fan of Massage parlors (Not so into the Bar scene but I indulge sometimes) but it would never even occur to me to start a regular Boyfriend/Girlfriend relationship with them. They are service providers, I pay them to provide me with their services.

Yes I have taken a fair number of "Prostitutes" on random Dinner/Sex Dates but never with the intention to have a stable relationship. It was fun and I always tipped them for the evening.

I know a lot of guys actually "save" these girls from their ungrateful jobs, and if it works out then I am happy for them, but let's face it, once a girl gets accustomed to be independant and shuffle large sums of money, it will be hard to adjust to a "regular" life and sometimes (as in Miss V's case) they have to get money on the side.

I also used to think that Bargirls were fun to take out on dates, but ever since I started dating non P4P women, I discovered they have much more to offer than bargirls... Yes, the sex is not as "professional" but a few of them are learning fast and get better everyday.

Some will say that bargirls are Liars but I am not talking about lies because everyone lies, in one way or another.

OTH was right, P4P, while satisfying and entertaining still can't hold a candle to Genuine non P4P courting, flirting, dating and sex.

Let me tell you something else, I know a lot of girls that will NEVER date Farangs, and the reason for that is because when they are in presence of a Farang people might think she is a "working girl", and we all know how Thais look down on P4P girls as being the bottom of the barrel, having said that, some are ok with it as long as it suits them financially (Family, Friends refusing to admit the daughter works as a "prostitute" and accepting the bullshit work story she gives because money keeps coming in).

Anyway, I like Thailand's diversity, I indulge in both P4P & non P4P and am quite satisfied with this so far. One day I will have to look for a wife and that might go against what other members here think, but I would prefer my future wife to be a Farang and not a Thai (for obvious communications reasons).

Sorry for the long post.

Raverboy
03-12-08, 11:30
...I had met Miss U and Miss V last time I was in Thailand, and I thought that they were pretty well off, both had falang bf, and were independent. Well, that is what I thought, but I know a bit more now...


A few thoughts on your post:

Reminds me of the saying often found in bargirl-related literature: "you can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl"...

Through my limited interactions with Thais, I'll pose the following:

Notwithstanding the fact that Thai society is as complicated as it is with regards to class distinction based on wealth, education, colour of skin, geographic region, dialect spoken, family name, etc. - a middle-class Thai with a university degree and a well paying job (by Thai standards) as a corporate executive with 5-8 years' experience pulls in about THB 12-15,000 / month. A KTV girl with youth on her side (and a savvy mamasan) pulls in between THB 30,000 and THB 40,000 / month. The latter includes her takings paid by the house on her customers' drink expenditures, her 'sitting fees' and earnings on whatever arrangements she makes outside the establishment. Both figures are based on actual acquaintances (were they kidding?).

If one had to choose between the two, it is not surprising that many would choose to throw their dignity (!) out the window and the line between P4P and non-P4P gets increasingly blurred.

Old Thai Hand
03-13-08, 01:15
a middle-class Thai with a university degree and a well paying job (by Thai standards) as a corporate executive with 5-8 years' experience pulls in about THB 12-15,000 / month.

I don't know where you got this figure. But, it's way off the mark. Someone with the qualifications you mention would probably make at least in the mid to high 20s and probably well into the 30s or even 40s. A corporate secretary with only a high-school diploma would likely make at least 9-10,000 alone. The girls in my office, none of whom have university degrees make between 12,000 to 18,000.

It's true that the national average salary is still only about 6,000/month. But, that takes in a lot of farmers and unskilled workers making around, 4,000-5,000/month in factories, as construction labourers, or as maids etc. Even a BKK taxi driver makes about 15,000/month.

I personally believe that while there are certainly university students and university-educated office workers who may be freelancing in P4P, even at the low-end (at the Bier Garten, for example), the huge numbers that some believe are doing it is nothing more than urban myth. The actual number is comparatively low.

On another note... The so-called 'stigma' of being seen as a hooker if in the company of a Farang is quickly disappearing as Thailand goes more "inter" as the Thais say and more and more regular, educated TGs encounter Farang on a daily basis at school at work and socially. For example, the number of international programs at Thai universities where Thai students are studying alongside foreign students have increased dramatically in recent years. Bangkok University International College, for example has students from about 40 different countries including large numbers of Europeans and even Americans, Canadians and Brits. Even HiSo bastions like Chulalongkorn U. and Silpakorn U. have increasing numbers of foreign students. It makes for an interesting change to see buxom, blonde-haired Swedish girls in Thai university uniforms.:)

Fon Tok
03-13-08, 01:42
It makes for an interesting change to see buxom, blonde-haired Swedish girls in Thai university uniforms.:)You should see the topless Swedish girls with their thongs on the beach here on Koh Lanta! Oh my. Pass the SPF!

Raverboy
03-13-08, 06:39
I don't know where you got this figure. But, it's way off the mark. Someone with the qualifications you mention would probably make at least in the mid to high 20s and probably well into the 30s or even 40s. A corporate secretary with only a high-school diploma would likely make at least 9-10,000 alone. The girls in my office, none of whom have university degrees make between 12,000 to 18,000...

hmm... maybe I misunderstood what my 'gig' was saying about her younger sister (ex-MNC employee, now a 'kept' woman), my Thai isnt quite up to the mark! But it was interesting how she (my 'gig') seems to secretly aspire to be her nong sao, saying that 'nong sao bpen HiSo laeow'! (although I doubt one can't simply 'become HiSo' just because you're a kept woman of one) ;)

About the Swedish girls, never mind the thongs, I just wanna see them in the university uniforms! What do they do for the name tags, make a literal translation in Thai of their swedish names?

Old Thai Hand
03-13-08, 06:48
hmm... maybe I misunderstood what my 'gig' was saying about her younger sister (ex-MNC employee, now a 'kept' woman), my Thai isnt quite up to the mark! But it was interesting how she (my 'gig') seems to secretly aspire to be her nong sao, saying that 'nong sao bpen HiSo laeow'! (although I doubt one can't simply 'become HiSo' just because you're a kept woman of one) ;)

absolutely correct, especially if you're a kept woman. You'd never be allowed to see the light of day in high society. Mia Noi or gigs of HiSo dudes are kept hidden away in apartments, usually off the beaten track. There are loads of them in the condos behind Ramkhamhaeng University where I used to live.


About the Swedish girls, never mind the thongs, I just wanna see them in the university uniforms! What do they do for the name tags, make a literal translation in Thai of their swedish names?

Students don't have name tags. But, if they did at an international school, they'd all be in English. BTW, the uniforms on these Swedish girls are quite snug, if you get my drift. :D

Starchild2012
03-13-08, 17:38
Notwithstanding the fact that Thai society is as complicated as it is with regards to class distinction based on wealth, education, colour of skin, geographic region, dialect spoken, family name, etc.

It is not only Thai..all over asia there is a class distinction based on caste, skin, wealth, education....

However, everything gets offset...if you know the great queens language English :) ...The power english language has to counter all caste, skin, wealth, education is not appriciated.

Back in India..even if you earn an enginnering degree but are not fluent in english you are looked down, but if you are a cab driver and you speak english even if you are from low caste with dark skin ..you will be welcomed everywhere...

The power english language holds amoung people in Asian society is magical..everything is forgotten about your background..the moment you speak english :)

Old Thai Hand
03-14-08, 08:14
It is not only Thai..all over asia there is a class distinction based on caste, skin, wealth, education....

However, everything gets offset...if you know the great queens language English :) ...The power english language has to counter all caste, skin, wealth, education is not appriciated.

Back in India..even if you earn an enginnering degree but are not fluent in english you are looked down, but if you are a cab driver and you speak english even if you are from low caste with dark skin ..you will be welcomed everywhere...

The power english language holds amoung people in Asian society is magical..everything is forgotten about your background..the moment you speak english :)

What nonsense. Lots of bargirls speak quite good English and they hold no sway at all in society. I should think that actually the ability to speak Chinese, Japanese and Korean carries far more weight, now given the huge influence of these cultures. There are many other factors far more important than simple English ability that determine status here.

Animby
03-14-08, 09:59
Why not bacterial vaginosis? It far outstrips yeast in frequency and has a very distinct 'fishy' smell. Intestinal amoeba would be way down on the list as it would present differently (lots of abdominal symptoms and diarrheah).
Conjecture on this stuff drives me batty. "Pharmacists" in Thailand know jack all about disease or diagnosis. Anyone can be an antiobiotic dispenser.

Ahh yes, Dr K, the whiff test! (Take some of the vaginal discharge, add an alkali and sniff for the fishes...) Clue cells, anybody? Litmus test? I'm not trying to be a Diagnosis and Treatment manual here, just to give some options. In my experience, vaginal bacteriosis doesn't often cause a super strong odor so I probably didn't think of it when I wrote my previous post.

As for my mentioning intestinal amoebiasis, ever smelled the gas emanating from someone with a bad case of giardiasis? The farts are bad, the burps are awful!

Your comments about local pharmacists are pretty much right on. Not just here bit in most of the developing world. I date a pharmacist here. Six years training and she knows very little about the drugs she dispenses. One antibiotic is about as good as the next. Not her but another pharm offered to sell me Cipro when I went in asking for erythromycin for a skin infection. Would have worked. Sort of like a shotgun would work where a flyswatter is needed.

Raverboy
03-14-08, 11:41
...Back in India..even if you earn an enginnering degree but are not fluent in english you are looked down, but if you are a cab driver and you speak english even if you are from low caste with dark skin ..you will be welcomed everywhere...

This isnt the India forum, but... I couldnt help but ask, so you mean if you are from a low caste with dark skin you would be welcome at an audience with a Maharaja?

pffft. Queen's English indeed! Lingering colonial fantasies, perhaps?

Starchild2012
03-14-08, 18:25
This isnt the India forum, but... I couldnt help but ask, so you mean if you are from a low caste with dark skin you would be welcome at an audience with a Maharaja?

pffft. Queen's English indeed! Lingering colonial fantasies, perhaps?

Yep..Now a days, however Maharaja's in India are just a showpiece..equal in todays time..the guy who holds power like in government offices or big establishment or in village community will respect a guy who speaks english..if you speak english...the powerful becomes powerless and everything becomes equal.

Everyone listens to a man who speaks english here..it has a power to make everyone equal.

As OTH mentioned there are lot of other factors, but purely in a language sense for day today activity, getting around and be counted in society...english has an edge over all the other language :)

Terry Terrier
03-15-08, 00:46
What nonsense. Lots of bargirls speak quite good English and they hold no sway at all in society.

OTH, you are making the mistake of thinking parochially again. Bangkok is not Thailand. More than a few former bargirls hold a helluva lot of sway in Pattaya. And most bargirls from the regions hold far more sway and have far more respect back in their regions than if they'd spent their careers working in the local shithole factories or on the local farms.

Old Thai Hand
03-15-08, 02:55
OTH, you are making the mistake of thinking parochially again. Bangkok is not Thailand. More than a few former bargirls hold a helluva lot of sway in Pattaya. And most bargirls from the regions hold far more sway and have far more respect back in their regions than if they'd spent their careers working in the local shithole factories or on the local farms.

Well, in fact you're thinking far more parochially than I. Bangkok is at least Thai and has a rich and varied mix of all the country's culture. But, Pattaya is most certainly not Thai. Pattaya is a perverse anomoly and is hardly representative of Thailand or Thai culture. These girls don't hold sway in the social strata of the culture, which is what I am talking about, regardless of where they are. They may have economic clout in their little villages and have garnered some sort of feigned respect because of it. But, I can guarantee that they are gossiped about and looked down upon by the very same people in their villages, who pretend to respect the money thay have, the gold around their necks and Mom and Pop's new house they erected by spreading their legs. Thais are the biggest hypocrits. So, In the bigger picture, their economic clout and resultant status ultimately means nothing. Within the culture, they are still regarded as the lowest of the low.

Old Thai Hand
03-15-08, 03:11
english has an edge over all the other language :)

perhaps in India. However when I was there (6 months in total), I was surprised at how few Indians spoke English. I can assure you that in the rest of Asia, it doesn't carry that much weight. For example, most Thais could care less about speaking anything other than Thai. The Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are far worse. Despite the large number of English language schools, English acquisition is not increasing that much. I would say that the emphasis, at least in Thailand is on learning the three Asian languages I mentioned previously: Chinese, Japanese and Korean.

Given the decline of the American Empire and the rise of China, 50 years from now the lingua franca will be Mandarin, not English.

Lover Boy #2
03-15-08, 06:28
Well, in fact you're thinking far more parochially than I. Bangkok is at least Thai and has a rich and varied mix of all the country's culture. But, Pattaya is most certainly not Thai. Pattaya is a perverse anomoly and is hardly representative of Thailand or Thai culture. These girls don't hold sway in the social strata of the culture, which is what I am talking about, regardless of where they are. They may have economic clout in their little villages and have garnered some sort of feigned respect because of it. But, I can guarantee that they are gossiped about and looked down upon by the very same people in their villages, who pretend to respect the money thay have, the gold around their necks and Mom and Pop's new house they erected by spreading their legs. Thais are the biggest hypocrits. So, In the bigger picture, their economic clout and resultant status ultimately means nothing. Within the culture, they are still regarded as the lowest of the low.

100% truth finally spoken......this is the way it is and the girls know what the locals think when they go home.

Terry Terrier
03-15-08, 07:57
Well, in fact you're thinking far more parochially than I. Bangkok is at least Thai and has a rich and varied mix of all the country's culture. But, Pattaya is most certainly not Thai. Pattaya is a perverse anomoly and is hardly representative of Thailand or Thai culture. These girls don't hold sway in the social strata of the culture, which is what I am talking about, regardless of where they are. They may have economic clout in their little villages and have garnered some sort of feigned respect because of it. But, I can guarantee that they are gossiped about and looked down upon by the very same people in their villages, who pretend to respect the money thay have, the gold around their necks and Mom and Pop's new house they erected by spreading their legs. Thais are the biggest hypocrits. So, In the bigger picture, their economic clout and resultant status ultimately means nothing. Within the culture, they are still regarded as the lowest of the low.

Typical OTH. Everybody Thai from outside Krungthep is from a "little village". Yeh, right.

Please show the forum your guarantees.

Terry Terrier
03-15-08, 08:02
100% truth finally spoken......this is the way it is and the girls know what the locals think when they go home.
Care to share your 100% experiences with the forum?

Lover Boy #2
03-15-08, 08:19
Care to share your 100% experiences with the forum?

I read his entire post and from my own standpoint, everything is 100% spot on. I think if you re-read what he is saying...it will ring true to you too.

When (and if) you can ever have an honest/truthful conversation with a TG who works as a prostitute, she will tell you how she feels upon returning to her village. These people are not stupid for the most part. They know that everyone knows they have been a pin cushion for the time of their absence and they even feel that everyone hates them because of what they have done.

I have personal experiences drenched in tears and it is too painful to recount them right now.


Originally Posted by Old Thai Hand
Well, in fact you're thinking far more parochially than I. Bangkok is at least Thai and has a rich and varied mix of all the country's culture. But, Pattaya is most certainly not Thai. Pattaya is a perverse anomoly and is hardly representative of Thailand or Thai culture. These girls don't hold sway in the social strata of the culture, which is what I am talking about, regardless of where they are. They may have economic clout in their little villages and have garnered some sort of feigned respect because of it. But, I can guarantee that they are gossiped about and looked down upon by the very same people in their villages, who pretend to respect the money thay have, the gold around their necks and Mom and Pop's new house they erected by spreading their legs. Thais are the biggest hypocrits. So, In the bigger picture, their economic clout and resultant status ultimately means nothing. Within the culture, they are still regarded as the lowest of the low.

Terry Terrier
03-15-08, 22:58
I read his entire post and from my own standpoint, everything is 100% spot on. I think if you re-read what he is saying...it will ring true to you too.

When (and if) you can ever have an honest/truthful conversation with a TG who works as a prostitute, she will tell you how she feels upon returning to her village. These people are not stupid for the most part. They know that everyone knows they have been a pin cushion for the time of their absence and they even feel that everyone hates them because of what they have done.

I have personal experiences drenched in tears and it is too painful to recount them right now.

Thanks for a very honest reply. It's obviously a tough subject for you to discuss on an open forum. My (and friends') experiences are very mixed: Girls aren't universally condemned, neither are they widely admired for doing what they do.

Terry Terrier
03-15-08, 23:24
These girls don't hold sway in the social strata of the culture, which is what I am talking about, regardless of where they are.

So, bearing in mind your opinions on how Thai social strata are formed, let's disregard prostitutes and discuss inclusiveness of mass population from the regions ("little villages") in said strata. Maybe then you will begin to understand why girls who work away as prostitutes are not universally liked or disliked when they return home, and why they usually live quite normal lives (excepting the local gossiper/stuck-up wanker/etc).

Old Thai Hand
03-16-08, 04:00
So, bearing in mind your opinions on how Thai social strata are formed, let's disregard prostitutes and discuss inclusiveness of mass population from the regions ("little villages") in said strata. Maybe then you will begin to understand why girls who work away as prostitutes are not universally liked or disliked when they return home, and why they usually live quite normal lives (excepting the local gossiper/stuck-up wanker/etc).

"Normal lives" is somewhat relative.

In the bigger picture, people upcountry, especially Isaan just assume a girl working in Bkk is a hooker, (even if she isn't) and thus look down on her. They are incredibly judgemental and as I said hypocritical. My GF, who's educated and works at a 5-star hotel is the subject of nasty gossip in her village, simply because she lives in BKK with a Farang. Despite that high position of her family in her village, (or perhaps because of it, because of jealousy) people have assumed all kinds of shit about her and have spread gossip about her. It's far from the first time I've encountered this with a GF from Isaan. So, given that girls who aren't even hookers are often looked down upon in their villages because of their associations with Farang, I stand by my opinion that girls who actually work in P4P are social pariahs, despite the wealth they give to their families. I think it's appalling. But, it's just the way Thais are.

Petemcc
03-16-08, 19:45
Are all bargirls bad?
I met one, who like an idiot, I felt sorry for after she told me her life story.
She was on the game for 4 months (and still is) , but a sweet girl,not yet jaded.
She has recently emailed me, and we have emailed and texted and my questions have come up with the answers that I am funny, I understand her, and treat her good.
Typical, but I think she may be different.
There's more to the story than can be told. I am a good judge of people and this girl is a keeper, but I am 44, she is 20, and I am married, so wrong equation.

Sponsorship is for idiots, but in anyone's opinion, is it possible to take a BG from the bar and get her a job and maybe supplement her income, without her whoring?
I doubt it, but I don't know.
I wish I wasn't so soft.

Pete

Terry Terrier
03-16-08, 23:16
Pete,

The short answer is no, don't do it. The long answer is it depends on an awful lot of factors. But her youth is a huge no-no IMO. I'll PM you in a day or two when I have more time. Don't rush into any decisions.

Old Thai Hand
03-17-08, 00:55
Are all bargirls bad?Pete

"Bad" is the wrong word to use. Corrupted by circumstances is more appropriate and all Thais, no matter what the source of corruption are incredibly susceptible to it. Given that in my experience, Thais are among the laziest people in the world, they tend to always take the easy way out. P4P, with its short-term gains is certainly preferable over toiling for hours in a factory for the same amount a girl could make in a night. Of course, long term damage to one's life is never ever considered because Thais NEVER plan ahead - part of the Buddhist 'live in the moment' mindset. As to your specific question: Regardless of how unjaded she may be and how good she is, the chances are extremely slim that you can take her out of the bar to work in a "respectable" job and somehow keep her off the game. I'm sure it has happened. But, I've never heard of any successes. So, I think it's quite rare.

Petemcc
03-17-08, 04:19
Thanks gentlemen

Pete

Lover Boy #2
03-17-08, 04:30
"Bad" is the wrong word to use. Corrupted by circumstances is more appropriate and all Thais, no matter what the source of corruption are incredibly susceptible to it. Given that in my experience, Thais are among the laziest people in the world, they tend to always take the easy way out. P4P, with its short-term gains is certainly preferable over toiling for hours in a factory for the same amount a girl could make in a night. Of course, long term damage to one's life is never ever considered because Thais NEVER plan ahead - part of the Buddhist 'live in the moment' mindset. As to your specific question: Regardless of how unjaded she may be and how good she is, the chances are extremely slim that you can take her out of the bar to work in a "respectable" job and somehow keep her off the game. I'm sure it has happened. But, I've never heard of any successes. So, I think it's quite rare.

As a matter of fact, it happened to me. The only time I ever got really involved with someone in the business. Everything possible was positive about her and what she was trying to do (i.e. get out of the business and get a real job so her life wouldn't be ruined by fucking/sucking every guy who she had to). She got a straight job (low pay of course) and seemed to be happy out of the business and living with me. I felt great....like I saved someone. This lasted for 8 months.

Then one day, I had to leave Thailand for a few months......and return to our office in Europe so I could keep my job and the income rolling in.

After a very short period of time, she was back on the prostitute trail. A friend of mine informed me that she was back in BKK (we lived 5 hours from there) and working as a hostess at a well known high end brothel/nighclub. My daily calls were cheerfully answered by her as she exclaimed she was busy working at the office shuffling papers. (reality is she was probably with a "customer"....telling him to be quiet as her tilac was calling)

I had my friend enter the nighclub the next day.......he told her that I had been informed what was going on. She fainted (or acted fainting) in the middle of the floor. My friend left. I did call her to say goodbye. She could not talk as the face loss to me and our friends must have been huge....she only cried....I did not fall for this. I did not ask what was going on....the answer was obvious to me. MONEY #1......and never think of the future.

Petemcc
03-17-08, 05:41
This all adds up gents, thanks. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard how Thais have fucked up future chances of a nice little earner by being greedy bastards in the present. Up until now I just thought it was stupidity, but from what you gents are saying, Thais really can't think about the future, which is why many of them-girls especially, seem to lose golden opportunities.
I suppose the question is are they capable of being trained to understand that there may be a future, or are they just a lost cause?

Regards
Pete

Giotto
03-17-08, 05:57
...
Sponsorship is for idiots, but in anyone's opinion, is it possible to take a BG from the bar and get her a job and maybe supplement her income, without her whoring?
...
Petemcc,

Please read the stories:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=2554&page=1&pp=15


Giotto

Raverboy
03-17-08, 06:07
...Sponsorship is for idiots, but in anyone's opinion, is it possible to take a BG from the bar and get her a job and maybe supplement her income, without her whoring?
I doubt it, but I don't know.
I wish I wasn't so soft.

Where I'm from the boys have a term for it - the 'KC trap'. KC being the acronym for 'kum cheng', a cantonese term that basically means 'feelings' or 'emotions'. It is precisely your 'softness' that the BG is expert at appealing to and preying on. There are far more of my fellow countrymen who have fallen in the 'KC trap' and who have lost more than they bargained for, than would admit.

What is amazing is the number of P4P TGs I've met who have admitted to having been sponsored at one point of time or another (by sponsors both in Thailand or abroad). They all shared one thing in common - the sponsorship has stopped, for whatever reason. Go figure.

More food for thought: Many of them meet their sponsors in the P4P environment, so its a neverending cycle of: working girl meets customer, customer becomes enamoured ("but she's different from the other BGs!", i.e. he falls in the 'KC trap'), customer becomes sponsor, working girl gets caught for doing this that or the other thing, sponsorship ends, girl goes back to the only game she knows how to play, and it all starts again.

What amount of sponsorship were you contemplating, or perhaps thats too personal a question? :rolleyes:

Lover Boy #2
03-17-08, 06:59
This all adds up gents, thanks. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard how Thais have fucked up future chances of a nice little earner by being greedy bastards in the present. Up until now I just thought it was stupidity, but from what you gents are saying, Thais really can't think about the future, which is why many of them-girls especially, seem to lose golden opportunities.
I suppose the question is are they capable of being trained to understand that there may be a future, or are they just a lost cause?

Regards
Pete

It's not just "the girls". In business Thai men usually act the same. They show themselves up to be "greedy bastards" during negotiations and rarely ever think of future business, even on deals in the 500,000 Euro region. It is amazing to me. The funny part is that when a new vendor is picked and the current is told what happened they are usually very surprised and try juvenile moves (like the P4P girls) to re-gain the business. Sometimes they are so pathetic it is almost sad. In Thailand, when business is bad.....the Thais raise prices on material, even when the distributor has not raised the price. When you ask wtf is going on, they respond that business is not good...so they have to charge a little more.....then look at you with a silly grin on their faces. This usually pisses westerners off to the max. I guess when business is bad in the bars...they raise the bf and raise the st price too. It is universal in this society.

Lover Boy #2
03-17-08, 07:06
Where I'm from the boys have a term for it - the 'KC trap'. KC being the acronym for 'kum cheng', a cantonese term that basically means 'feelings' or 'emotions'. It is precisely your 'softness' that the BG is expert at appealing to and preying on. There are far more of my fellow countrymen who have fallen in the 'KC trap' and who have lost more than they bargained for, than would admit.

What is amazing is the number of P4P TGs I've met who have admitted to having been sponsored at one point of time or another (by sponsors both in Thailand or abroad). They all shared one thing in common - the sponsorship has stopped, for whatever reason. Go figure.

More food for thought: Many of them meet their sponsors in the P4P environment, so its a neverending cycle of: working girl meets customer, customer becomes enamoured ("but she's different from the other BGs!", i.e. he falls in the 'KC trap'), customer becomes sponsor, working girl gets caught for doing this that or the other thing, sponsorship ends, girl goes back to the only game she knows how to play, and it all starts again.

What amount of sponsorship were you contemplating, or perhaps thats too personal a question? :rolleyes:

This post says it all.....but I wonder why they never seem to realize that their actions is what ends the cycle and then starts the cycle again. I asked the girl I discussed below about this, as she readily admitted to three earlier boyfriends...all Asian. She said she thought it was her bad luck. I asked her if it was bad luck what she thought she could do to change her luck. She said it was all up to Buddha and she didn't have anything to do with it...other then going to the Wat and praying. I tried to explain the things she could do to change her luck....but she didn't understand....I banged my head on the wall.

Animby
03-17-08, 07:26
She has recently emailed me, and... I am funny, I understand her, and treat her good. Typical, but I think she may be different.

Sponsorship is for idiots, but in anyone's opinion, is it possible to take a BG from the bar and get her a job and maybe supplement her income, without her whoring?
I wish I wasn't so soft.

Pete, no one here can tell you if your lady is different. We can only tell you our experience and prejudices. The age difference is truly not important to the poorer girls. It's your ability to support them they care about.

But those lines: you're funny, you're nice to her, you really care, you understand her... sorry, those are lines we've all heard too often. The girls will introduce them at various times in the relationship from moments after you've met until anytime later. But, it's always geared to do exactly what seems to be happening to you here: to think this one is different.

Is it possible to take a BG out of the bar? I'm sure it is. In my experience, I've never seen it. I've seen girls who took themselves out of the BG scene and, at least two of them, are now quite successful entrepreneurs. The key is they did it for themselves not because some nice farang who understands them sent them money every month.

I promise you, your check each month will be added to the others she receives and she will individualize the emailed note of thank you before she goes to work that night.

The most unlikely thing is that she will be your Julia Roberts or that you will be her Richard Gere. We all know men who have married ex-BGs with varied amounts of success.

Is it possible? Yes. Remotely.
Is it likely? No.

You said two important things: "Sponsorship is for idiots" and "I wish I wasn't so soft." Everytime you think about giving her money, I urge you to think about what will happen if your wife finds out and then repeat "Sponsorship is for IDIOTS ... I wish I weren't so soft."

Petemcc
03-17-08, 16:21
Thanks again everyone for your responses and words of wisdom. As I said in my original post, sponsorship is for idiots, and I wouldn't do it, even if everyone here had said it was a good idea. I was merely exploring the possibilities that she could work somewhere else, other than a bar, if someone were to supplement her income-which I know implies that it would be me, which it wouldn't be.

If it is the case that all Thai BGs are such canaving bitches, then the world is more of a fucked-up place than I could have imagined, but I have no doubt that you gents know from experience that they are just that, and that saddens me.
How someone on the game for now only 6 months, and who seemed so sweet, could be involved in such a cynical deception, is frankly sickening, and very, vert saddening.

As well as being soft, I'm also a pragmatist and a realist and when confronted with commonsense and expert opinion, I tend to wise-up, wake up, and smell the proverbial coffee.

I have absolutely no plans of leaving my wife for anyone (at the moment!) and I know from others' inputs that taking a TG out of Thailand is like taking a fish out of water, and i'm fucked if I'm living in a third world country that treats falang like scum, when I live in a first world tropical paradise.

To be honest, my concerns were more for the girl than me, but that was probably just a moment of egotistical madness, thinking that a 20 years old beauty would want me for anything other than my baht.

When I return in June, it will be my last trip for a long time, bit if I'm still speaking with the girl, I'll treat her well for a few days, go away with her, and use her as a companion. Who knows, the sky may open and a revelation will appear, but I doubt it from what you guys say, so I'll remember that Thai BGS are for fun only.

Regards

Pete

Seydlitz
03-17-08, 16:22
Are all bargirls bad?
There's more to the story than can be told. I am a good judge of people and this girl is a keeper, but I am 44, she is 20, and I am married, so wrong equation.


I can only chime in with the other guys, but I will add another angle to the debate.

I think one can indeed get a future with a TG met in a bar. This is not the most romantic way to meet one’s significant other and ladies of the night are not typically seen as the ideal wife material, but TGs are human too. They have a hart and they have a brain. In a way, they are somewhat less difficult to read than I imagine a Thai HiSo girl would be because the money the Farang brings to the party is such a big and obvious equalizer.

So yes, you can connect with your chosen one, and there is a chance of success. How big a chance? Impossible to say, but it would also depend a lot on you, mostly on you I’d say. Actually, she is just like many others, and she is only special to you. She is identical to very many of her sisters who venture into the p4p scene to make a living and send money home. Hopefully she is not too mentally and emotionally scarred by it yet. So how can you make a difference? You cannot hope to take her out of the game by sending her money every month. This hardly ever works. Like other shave said, she will keep working and your money will be a complement of income to her. The only way to get her out would be to live with her either in Thailand (preferably) or in your country, which in your situation would imply getting a divorce first, quite a drastic lifestyle change. If you did that, then you might improve the odds of your finding blissful happiness for life in the arms of a world class companion. Anything short of that will likely fail.

The other alternative is to consider her like an occasional girlfriend. Let her continue to work the barlife, spend the time you can with her when you are in LOS, travel with her, be generous but don’t be a sucker. Do not send her money, or at least not regularly. In a few years, you might see her in a different light; your marriage might have ended anyway etc. Give time to time.

Seydlitz
03-17-08, 16:33
I had my friend enter the nighclub the next day.......he told her that I had been informed what was going on. She fainted (or acted fainting) in the middle of the floor. My friend left. I did call her to say goodbye. She could not talk as the face loss to me and our friends must have been huge....she only cried....I did not fall for this. I did not ask what was going on....the answer was obvious to me. MONEY #1......and never think of the future.

Do you really think she went back to the bar life for the money? Odds are that she was missing the fun and excitement of that life, the daily contact with many other people, .. If money played a part, it might just have been for the gratifying fact of making one’s own money, not depending on a boyfriend to dole out some cash for everything.

The other thing is that Thais genuinely believe that they can act any way they like and that nobody will ever find out, which is odd since in that society gossip is an art and the chance of somebody ratting you out is so overwhelming that cheating on one’s spouse is a dangerous sport indeed.

Petemcc
03-17-08, 16:48
I can only chime in with the other guys, but I will add another angle to the debate.

I think one can indeed get a future with a TG met in a bar. This is not the most romantic way to meet one’s significant other and ladies of the night are not typically seen as the ideal wife material, but TGs are human too. They have a hart and they have a brain. In a way, they are somewhat less difficult to read than I imagine a Thai HiSo girl would be because the money the Farang brings to the party is such a big and obvious equalizer.

So yes, you can connect with your chosen one, and there is a chance of success. How big a chance? Impossible to say, but it would also depend a lot on you, mostly on you I’d say. Actually, she is just like many others, and she is only special to you. She is identical to very many of her sisters who venture into the p4p scene to make a living and send money home. Hopefully she is not too mentally and emotionally scarred by it yet. So how can you make a difference? You cannot hope to take her out of the game by sending her money every month. This hardly ever works. Like other shave said, she will keep working and your money will be a complement of income to her. The only way to get her out would be to live with her either in Thailand (preferably) or in your country, which in your situation would imply getting a divorce first, quite a drastic lifestyle change. If you did that, then you might improve the odds of your finding blissful happiness for life in the arms of a world class companion. Anything short of that will likely fail.

The other alternative is to consider her like an occasional girlfriend. Let her continue to work the barlife, spend the time you can with her when you are in LOS, travel with her, be generous but don’t be a sucker. Do not send her money, or at least not regularly. In a few years, you might see her in a different light; your marriage might have ended anyway etc. Give time to time.
Good post mate, cheers.
Petemccc

M P Lurker
03-18-08, 08:36
Do you really think she went back to the bar life for the money? Odds are that she was missing the fun and excitement of that life, the daily contact with many other people, .. If money played a part, it might just have been for the gratifying fact of making one’s own money, not depending on a boyfriend to dole out some cash for everything.

The other thing is that Thais genuinely believe that they can act any way they like and that nobody will ever find out, which is odd since in that society gossip is an art and the chance of somebody ratting you out is so overwhelming that cheating on one’s spouse is a dangerous sport indeed.
There is a girl who used to work in Long Gun. Got a boyfriend and no longer dances, no longer goes with customers, doesn't seem to do any work, but still keeps turning up to the bar to be with her friends. Seems to miss it badly like you said.

Old Thai Hand
03-18-08, 13:31
There is a girl who used to work in Long Gun. Got a boyfriend and no longer dances, no longer goes with customers, doesn't seem to do any work, but still keeps turning up to the bar to be with her friends. Seems to miss it badly like you said.

It's because they're the only friends she can make in this culture, or at least the only people she can feel comfortable with. Having gone into the business, it has changed her forever. Yes, as Seydlitz says, these girls are human. But, they are quite fucked up humans, not merely because of the easy money, but because of a myriad of things, such as the other fucked-up girls, the surreal atmosphere of the bars and the business, the drugs, the customers...you name it - not to mention the secrecy she has to maintain about what she has done and her complete lack of knowing what else to do with her life.

A good friend of mine with an excellent business and well-connected after 12 years still can't seem to move past one ex-BG GF after another. He eventually ends these relationships (and, BTW is about to again), not because of some dramatic event like the girl returning to the biz or cheating, but because of the simple fact that they all do this exact same thing: stop working, end up really doing nothing, don't move forward and stagnate in a pointless existence, are uncomfortable with most people, especially other Thais because of their pasts and frequently return to the bar for social reasons because it's the only place they feel at home. My friend's biggest complaint is that they all end up lacking in ambition and ultimately become boring and an emotional drain because they don't fit in anywhere, but the bar.

The sad thing is he'll probably do it again and history will repeat itself.


BTW, one can take a TG out of Thailand. But, she has to be intelligent, educated and cosmopolitan - not from P4P and not some uneducated farm-girl from the countryside, as are almost all the girls in P4P.

Easy2007
03-18-08, 15:11
LOL.

A TG who is "intelligent, educated and cosmopolitan" would either be single, or would be married to a rich Thai.

They would not be with a farang, thats for sure.


BTW, one can take a TG out of Thailand. But, she has to be intelligent, educated and cosmopolitan - not some uneducated farm-girl from the countryside, as are almost all the girls in P4P.

Dinghy
03-18-08, 18:49
or as some have said "you can the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl" :)

M P Lurker
03-18-08, 22:58
It's because they're the only friends she can make in this culture, or at least the only people she can feel comfortable with. Having gone into the business, it has changed her forever. Yes, as Seydlitz says, these girls are human. But, they are quite fucked up humans, not merely because of the easy money, but because of a myriad of things, such as the other fucked-up girls, the surreal atmosphere of the bars and the business, the drugs, the customers...you name it - not to mention the secrecy she has to maintain about what she has done and her complete lack of knowing what else to do with her life.

A good friend of mine with an excellent business and well-connected after 12 years still can't seem to move past one ex-BG GF after another. He eventually ends these relationships (and, BTW is about to again), not because of some dramatic event like the girl returning to the biz or cheating, but because of the simple fact that they all do this exact same thing: stop working, end up really doing nothing, don't move forward and stagnate in a pointless existence, are uncomfortable with most people, especially other Thais because of their pasts and frequently return to the bar for social reasons because it's the only place they feel at home. My friend's biggest complaint is that they all end up lacking in ambition and ultimately become boring and an emotional drain because they don't fit in anywhere, but the bar.

The sad thing is he'll probably do it again and history will repeat itself.


BTW, one can take a TG out of Thailand. But, she has to be intelligent, educated and cosmopolitan - not from P4P and not some uneducated farm-girl from the countryside, as are almost all the girls in P4P.
OTH,
Maybe a girl has to be intellegent and highly educated to suit you. But this is definitely not a requirement for everyone. Not every woman in the world can be highly educated and above average intellengence.

A good personality is a higher priority. I have known one Thai girl for 15 years in Australia who only has Bor Hok but is artistic and is an excellent Thai chef (never done P4P and previously worked in Hotels) and good at decorative carving.

She actually shows signs of intellegence despite her father forcing her to quit school at a young age to work. She plays Canasta and Dummy card games with skill levels at least equal to myself and probably higher.

But I suppose that you are right in that she is in the minority. She has very few Thai friends as not many of the Thais meet her standard to be a close friend. She particularly finds that the other Thai girls from rich families who came to Aus as students are often selfish types and don't know how to work properly.

When we evaluate girls, we don't check their education certificates, nor IQs. :) Personality, face, body, employment, money are probably all more important.

Old Thai Hand
03-19-08, 02:36
LOL.

A TG who is "intelligent, educated and cosmopolitan" would either be single, or would be married to a rich Thai.

They would not be with a farang, thats for sure.

I'm sorry. But, that's simply not the case. My current GF is all three. Over the last 11 years I've mostly only dated Thai women who more or less fit this discription. I also have several Farang friends who are also in relationships with Thai women who fit this description. My boss, who's very HiSo, and has a PhD from the U. of California is married to an American. Another Thai professor with whom I work has an Italian BF.

Perhaps you're to be excused because like many Farang, your experience may only be with a certain type of Thai girl and therefore, you simply don't know any better.

Old Thai Hand
03-19-08, 02:54
OTH,
Maybe a girl has to be intellegent and highly educated to suit you. But this is definitely not a requirement for everyone. Not every woman in the world can be highly educated and above average intellengence.

"Educated" can mean many things and doesn't necessarily have to be formal education. I had a GF once who only had Mor Hok, but who was very intelligent, a voracious reader and hungry for knowledge. I would consider her in many ways more educated and intelligent than some of the PhDs I work with. I took her to Canada and she loved everything about it and fit quite well into the culture and the lifestyle.

What I was mainly referring to was that a TG who is intelligent, educated and cosmopolitan is capable of surviving much better outside of Thai culture.

Thais at the best of times are very insular and don't adapt well outside their own milieu. So interest in things beyond watching Thai soap operas and eating som tam is a necessity. Most BGs simply can't cope. For example, I've met many girls from Isaan who won't even eat Thai food, let alone anything foreign.

Europe, in particular has large numbers of ex-BGs, who really didn't think ahead and who, as a result are living somewhat lonely, miserable lives with guys who they thought were rich, but who turned out to be ordinary. They are cut off from the life-line of family, food and culture. Most ultimately return home and end up back in the game.

Sfifred
03-19-08, 04:08
"Bad" is the wrong word to use. Corrupted by circumstances is more appropriate and all Thais, no matter what the source of corruption are incredibly susceptible to it. Given that in my experience, Thais are among the laziest people in the world, they tend to always take the easy way out. P4P, with its short-term gains is certainly preferable over toiling for hours in a factory for the same amount a girl could make in a night. Of course, long term damage to one's life is never ever considered because Thais NEVER plan ahead - part of the Buddhist 'live in the moment' mindset. As to your specific question: Regardless of how unjaded she may be and how good she is, the chances are extremely slim that you can take her out of the bar to work in a "respectable" job and somehow keep her off the game. I'm sure it has happened. But, I've never heard of any successes. So, I think it's quite rare.Just commenting on some generalisation OTH made - Thais are among the laziest people in the world - and - Thais NEVER plan ahead - part of the Buddhist 'live in the moment' mindset - I would like to add the following cultural observations.

Thailand as a country over the last thousand or more year is and has been a country that is blest by its geographically position. It is rarely afflicted by natural disasters (drought, typhoon etc) and has weather eg rain and heat, that allow ideal fruit / vegetable growing conditions. Most fruit types just grow in the wild. Rivers and streams are everywhere and yield abundant fish and crustaceans. Therefore the pressing need over centuries for the population to ensure that adequate food supplies were on hand to survive unforeseen futire events, such natural diasasters, severe cold winters, mad dictators etc such as China, Europeans societies have had to deal with may have some bearing on why Thais seem so laid back about the future and also about working hard. Tomorrow will take care of tomorrow. It always has in the past and probably always will in the future. Not exactly a "western" outlook on life but it would appear to be an outlook atht is relativel stress free.

Fon Tok
03-19-08, 05:00
"Educated" can mean many things and doesn't necessarily have to be formal education....a TG who is intelligent, educated and cosmopolitan is capable of surviving much better outside of Thai culture...I've met many girls from Isaan who won't even eat Thai food, let alone anything foreign....They are cut off from the life-line of family, food and culture. Most ultimately return home and end up back in the game.As I am somewhat new to living in Thailand (2 years), I have followed this thread with interest and I tend to agree with most of what has been written. Both pro and con. I am in a close relationship with a lovely Thai woman (not a BG or P4P), who is from the country, (not Isaan, but close).

On my trips home (alone), I often wonder how she might adapt to life outside of Thailand (in the US). I have come to believe that our home life would be fine but life outside of the home, especially in social situations, would be somewhat difficult. Some of it (at first) would be basic language and cultural differences, but more significantly I think that my American women friends would be "too much" for her. They can be an aggressive lot (which is not normally attractive), and possibly would feel threatened (by a demure Thai woman). Without clear discourse, (American women love to talk), they would a hard time understanding why I have "brought her over" to America.

I think that one of the reasons our relationship has been successful thus far is our respective ability and willingness to adapt to each other. I also often remind myself that I am the "visitor" in Thailand and it is my responsibility to listen and learn about the country and society I chose to live in.

As far as finding the perfect mate (e. G. , education, sophistication, class, etc.), I think that this is difficult in any country. Again, adapting is often required. An intelligent, well-rounded Thai woman definitely would do better in the US, but I think she would still miss "home. "

In terms of bar girls. The few that I've met and gotten to know as potential "girlfriends" have been fairly narrow in their thinking, interests and overall appeal. They're fun for a little while but the attraction usually wears thin as their predictability shines through.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Old Thai Hand
03-19-08, 07:10
Not exactly a "western" outlook on life but it would appear to be an outlook atht is relativel stress free.

Your premise is extremely faulty. This isn't 15th century Ayutthaya.

Thais are faced with pressure to compete regionally and globally and simply can't. For example, the Vietnamese (with a similar climate and culture), but having survived decades of war, kick the shit out of the Thais on all levels. The Thais' laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude, results in an inability to cope with too much before they melt-down. In a fast-paced and modern world, from which they can't escape, their "good enough" approach to most things makes them ill-equipped to produce anything of real quality. I deal with this on a daily basis. My students, who are the best and the brightest, still pale by comparison not only to students anywhere in the West, but even when compared to those from India, Vietnam, and Korea.

Several studies have also revealed that stress among Thais is extremely high as are resultant suicide rates.

So much for your "relatively stress free" life.

Old Thai Hand
03-19-08, 07:15
As I am somewhat new to living in Thailand (2 years), I have followed this thread with interest and I tend to agree with most of what has been written. Both pro and con. I am in a close relationship with a lovely Thai woman (not a BG or P4P), who is from the country, (not Isaan, but close).

On my trips home (alone), I often wonder how she might adapt to life outside of Thailand (in the US). I have come to believe that our home life would be fine but life outside of the home, especially in social situations, would be somewhat difficult. Some of it (at first) would be basic language and cultural differences, but more significantly I think that my American women friends would be "too much" for her. They can be an aggressive lot (which is not normally attractive), and possibly would feel threatened (by a demure Thai woman). Without clear discourse, (American women love to talk), they would a hard time understanding why I have "brought her over" to America.

I think that one of the reasons our relationship has been successful thus far is our respective ability and willingness to adapt to each other. I also often remind myself that I am the "visitor" in Thailand and it is my responsibility to listen and learn about the country and society I chose to live in.

As far as finding the perfect mate (e. G. , education, sophistication, class, etc.), I think that this is difficult in any country. Again, adapting is often required. An intelligent, well-rounded Thai woman definitely would do better in the US, but I think she would still miss "home. "

In terms of bar girls. The few that I've met and gotten to know as potential "girlfriends" have been fairly narrow in their thinking, interests and overall appeal. They're fun for a little while but the attraction usually wears thin as their predictability shines through.reportsofdistinction.

good post. Yes anyone, even someone who is open-minded, sophisticated and educated can get homesick. But, the issue is one of adaptability. The type of girl to which I refer has often been to other countries and does at least have some semblance of understanding of life outside of Thailand. An up-country girl, even one not in P4P is probably not a suitable candidate to take to your home country. Often, I have found that a lot of them aren't even comfortable in Bangkok and much prefer their village. So, why some guys think they can take one home and it will work out is beyond me.

Lover Boy #2
03-19-08, 09:05
Do you really think she went back to the bar life for the money? Odds are that she was missing the fun and excitement of that life, the daily contact with many other people, .. If money played a part, it might just have been for the gratifying fact of making one’s own money, not depending on a boyfriend to dole out some cash for everything.

The other thing is that Thais genuinely believe that they can act any way they like and that nobody will ever find out, which is odd since in that society gossip is an art and the chance of somebody ratting you out is so overwhelming that cheating on one’s spouse is a dangerous sport indeed.

.....very interesting thoughts. She didn't work in a bar....it is a high end brothel in BKK....she was a hostess, but also took on customers, mostly Japanese and Korean. I do agree that she was missing the fun and excitement, especially when you consider that she obtained a very low paying office job (5,000 B/month) where it was hot in the office and probably no fun at all dealing with the Taipan who ran the place. The daily contact with other people was probably another factor.....she was very close to two girls in the club and one who works near the club...also as a p4p. ALL of her friends were p4p....yet she said 100 times that she didn't want to do this anymore due to the dangers involved (stds and violent customers). She, in fact, started the idea of leaving the profession.....she knew I wasn't happy about her "contacts" (kept making immature comments about the small size of her customer's penis'....which was another childish, silly aspect of her personality).....but she was the one who wanted to stay with me and leave the business....I did not push her into anything. Your sentence about her not wanting to take money from me is very close to what was going on. She was unusual in that she really didn't want money from me for daily stuff.....and when she had to ask as her funds were depleted.....I saw it made her sick. She was trying to build up an account so that when I came back she wouldn't have to ask me for money for shampoo....and I understand that. Your second paragraph is exactly what happened.....when my friend told her the game was over....her brain got overloaded and her eyes rolled back in her head and she fell on the floor. My friend tells me that it all looked very genuine.....she was then hysterical and the girls had to console her.

The whole thing is very sad. She and I were tested for everything possible before we began a condomless relationship......and this is what angers me the most. Maybe I was giving her too much credit for understanding what was going on, but I'm not a guy who barebacks someone I don't trust. Now, with all that has happened, I don't trust her....and I would be wasting my time (and hers) if I continued with her....as my intentions would not be good as far as anything long term.

Well, she is out there.......maybe one night one of you guyz will see her getting into a taxi on her way home and you can score a beautiful girl for all the sexual fun you can think of......but beware......no truth will ever be spoken and you run the risk of being with someone who is fairly artful at the ways of deception. (By way of full disclosure, I gave up mongering after I met her as I felt satisfied by what she was offering....and that is probably why I feel so cheated on here. She seemed to have an extreme low opinion of the "customers"....and seemed to be most happy when she was far from any contact with them. I guess I read this whole thing wrong.....I'll be more experienced next time!!)

LittleBigMan
03-19-08, 09:31
Old Thai hand and Fon Tok, hid it right on the mark as far as I'm concern! My wife is from the country Sukhothai Rice fields. Things with her is very simple with lots of common sense build into it. I could never afford to bring her to the U.S. to live and she would never agree to it anyways that is one of the things we have in common so I'm here living in Thailand and adapting to life. She never being on a Airplane let alone a amusement ride I got a Tourist Visa last year for her and we all went and just knew before hand she wouldn't like it. The weather, the food you name it. She was counting down the days to return and on the night we left she called her friend and advise her get the pepper ready! but she enjoyed the experience that she thought was never going to happen.

LBM

Terry Terrier
03-19-08, 10:41
Found this research study of Thai migrants in the UK by the Runnymede Trust:

http://www.runnymedetrust.org/uploads/file/EmpoweringIndividualsCreatingCommunity-2008.pdf

As always, the truth seems to lie somewhere between the extremes of opinion that are oft expressed on ISG. Be warned: Its quite in-depth, and more than a few minutes read.

Old Thai Hand
03-20-08, 01:22
Found this research study of Thai migrants in the UK by the Runnymede Trust:

http://www.runnymedetrust.org/uploads/file/EmpoweringIndividualsCreatingCommunity-2008.pdf

As always, the truth seems to lie somewhere between the extremes of opinion that are oft expressed on ISG. Be warned: Its quite in-depth, and more than a few minutes read.

An interesting read. But, I don't think it totally relates to the topic at hand. The discussion has primarily focused on a Farang taking a TG to his home country as a companion or more and usually with some sort of lack of understanding of the reality of it all. While I'm sure issues faced my migrant workers are quite similar, the difference is that they usually go to another country (such as the UK, Israel, Dubai etc.) solo and to work. It's also often a temporary thing with plans to eventually return home.

But, issues of culture shock, loneliness and disconnection are the same in both instances.

Giotto
03-20-08, 04:12
I certainly agree with the missing fun/entertainment aspect as one reason for girls to return to their bars even if they have a sponsor, but major issue was not mentioned up to now: Trust!

In this high season (starting November 2007) we lost 11 girls up to now, stopped working by customers. 4 of them are back already, surprisingly, they lost face towards the colleagues in the bar, usually the girls do not return to the same bar. They start working somewhere else when they return to the bar life.

Only 2 of the girls showed up for entertainment many nights after they stopped, lonely, missing the night life, keeping their social contacts with their friends and "sisters". 5 girls quit, and were not seen again here at Livingstone's (up to now).

One girl (one of our dancers) was stopped working approx. 6 months ago, and she will be back today. The relationship has obviously calmed down, and the money flow is not as expected. She was promised to get a new house at her home village, so she broke down the old one. Now she still waits for the money to build that new house, and waits, and waits - and the family has no place to stay at the moment. That's what she told us - and of course you can never know whether this is the truth or not...

In my experience money and fun are of course important reasons, but trust is more important. Those girls have their obligations in the background, they are taking care of their kids or their parents or both, they build houses in their villages - they need a steady income. But most of them are still looking for the man for all life, and then money does not really count, as long as it is sufficient to fulfil the existing obligations. They want to feel safe, and financially supported.

The girls stop working and agree to a monthly budget which is usually much lower than their usual income from the bar. They "give it a chance", 15 - 20 k a month is enough (still a lot compared to the income levels here in Thailand), instead of 50 k - 75 k they had before (depending on their looks, behavior, success with customers). As long as they believe in that customer, that this man will take care of them and their families, that he has a good heart, that he will give her a future - they will most likely not return to the bar. They will visit their collegues in the beginning sometimes, but then they return to their villages and change their lifes.

When they get the impression that they cannot trust that specific man they will return immediately and start working to make more money. And they will [of course] not tell the sponsor...

The older a girl is, the more experienced she is - the less she "gives it a try". Those girls have already the experience that it most likely will not work, and they don't want to lose time. The older girls usually pretend to stop working, and they have most likely more than only one sponsor.

The higher the "montly allowance" is the faster the girls return to the bar. We had one case in this season in which a customer agreed to pay 60 k a month. The girl was back after 2 months.

If you want to stop a girl working in a bar make sure that she trusts you, and that she believes in a future with you as her boyfriend / husband. That is the key. Plans to move to Thailand or to bring her to your home country. Visiting the family, being interested in their well-being. Once she trusts she stops.


Giotto

M P Lurker
03-20-08, 05:15
One girl (one of our dancers) was stopped working approx. 6 months ago, and she will be back today. The relationship has obviously calmed down, and the money flow is not as expected. She was promised to get a new house at her home village, so she broke down the old one. Now she still waits for the money to build that new house, and waits, and waits - and the family has no place to stay at the moment. That's what she told us - and of course you can never know whether this is the truth or not...

I heard this one before.
Its usually the girl's fault, I would think. They have no idea of how to get the "FULL" cost estimate. Until she has the full cost safely locked away, obviously the project cannot be commenced, as the guy may change his mind especially when the cost starts escalating and he is getting nothing much in return.

Lover Boy #2
03-20-08, 05:51
I heard this one before.
Its usually the girl's fault, I would think. They have no idea of how to get the "FULL" cost estimate. Until she has the full cost safely locked away, obviously the project cannot be commenced, as the guy may change his mind especially when the cost starts escalating and he is getting nothing much in return.

Any farang who gets involved in a construction project of a house in Thailand......soon loses interest. He can't own the land....and therfore doesn't own the house. Unless you use a nominee corp. (illegal)...the house must be in the girl's name. After the farang gets caught up in the construction over-runs (you are 100% right that the average girl has no ability to calculate real cost opposed to Thai bullshit initial estimate).....the money train ends. Just another Thai story of life in the small city.

Lexb
03-20-08, 06:58
The may be better suited for another forum in the ISG but I believe my thoughts would be beneficial here. Gentlemen, please consider this when contemplating returning to your native "First-World" country with your Thai lady ("significant other", "significant other/future spouse, or just plain spouse, it is usually immaterial! ).

To not identify particular women/countries (as, in my opinion, they are all "guilty as sin" to more/lesser extent) I will use my "pet" phrase of "Caucasia (ians)" as to mean single/"available" women who inhabit "First-World" Western countries (Caucasia).

Let me first state that, with globalization becoming more of a reality, the situation I will speak about, hopefully, will be less of a problem in the future and, I were the "King of the world" would be a "non-factor" as of yesterday!

I firmly believe that Caucasian women play the old "double standard" reacting shamefully regarding their opinions/actions regarding men who choose the "mail-order bride" route (I know I am dating myself, but please indulge me! ).

The mindset of many "available" Caucasian women is that if, Caucasian men do not "make the grade". That is, for whatever reason (s), we are not "attractive"(defined as being too poor, too fat, too short, too old, bad dresser, "unsmooth" personality"-the list is endless! ) enough to deserve to have emotional/physical relationships with THEM ONLY! For these unforgivable attributes, it is thought by many Caucasian women, we should all die lonely and horny.

Thinking outside this sphere (or, as I like to call it, "the box") is not an option, according to Caucasian women, as we must accept our WELL-DESERVED fate with them "calling the shots".

Bringing a "mail-order bride" back to Caucasia is nothing short of taking the cheap, dirty and easy way out of your intended destiny! The fact that you are happy (now enjoying companionship that you have a measure (varying) of control over and, hopefully, frequent and great sex) does not fit in the equation as you, by not playing by Caucasian women's convoluted rules, have flunked the test!

Congratulations! You have just graduated from being a pathetic "loser" to being a pathetic "loser" who now is on the "A-List" for "Pimp 'n Ho" party invites!

As you intoduce your "main squeeze" around and explain the particulars get use to cold chills, nervous laughs and the fake "Cheshire Cat" smiles. You took the "easy way out" and that is unforgiveable in a capitalistic society that only recognizes challenges and successes.

And I will not even get into the "physical appearance" disconnect as it varies by location.

The Cardinal sin we commit, according to many Caucasian women, is we "quit" the, what I like to call, "Futile Dating Debacle" and, as we all are told, "winners never quit and quitters never win". SO THERE!

It is easy to delude ourselves by thinking that my Thai lady and I will build a "force field" around the judgmental society around us but don't buy it! Unless we live like hermits in a vacuum (no external people interactions of ANY kind). The negative vibes will put a real strain on an already awkward situation ("different" looking lady in a strange/frightening new culture).

Think about it!

Sfifred
03-20-08, 08:25
Your premise is extremely faulty. This isn't 15th century Ayutthaya.

Thais are faced with pressure to compete regionally and globally and simply can't. For example, the Vietnamese (with a similar climate and culture), but having survived decades of war, kick the shit out of the Thais on all levels. The Thais' laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude, results in an inability to cope with too much before they melt-down. In a fast-paced and modern world, from which they can't escape, their "good enough" approach to most things makes them ill-equipped to produce anything of real quality. I deal with this on a daily basis. My students, who are the best and the brightest, still pale by comparison not only to students anywhere in the West, but even when compared to those from India, Vietnam, and Korea.

Several studies have also revealed that stress among Thais is extremely high as are resultant suicide rates.

So much for your "relatively stress free" life.OTH

Re-examining your statement on Thai suicide rate - please look up wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_suicide_rate. While this chart is somewhat imperfect it does question you assertion about high suicide rates in Thailand.

Also I wasn't implying that Thai laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude was acceptable, actually I make no judgement on that at all but I was simply trying to show that maybe there are historical reasons for this Thai laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude.

Terry Terrier
03-20-08, 13:05
An interesting read. But, I don't think it totally relates to the topic at hand. The discussion has primarily focused on a Farang taking a TG to his home country as a companion or more and usually with some sort of lack of understanding of the reality of it all. While I'm sure issues faced my migrant workers are quite similar, the difference is that they usually go to another country (such as the UK, Israel, Dubai etc.) solo and to work. It's also often a temporary thing with plans to eventually return home.

But, issues of culture shock, loneliness and disconnection are the same in both instances.

You appear not to have read the article properly. It is a study of the general Thai migrant population in the UK (or, rather, specific target areas of the UK).

The discussion on this thread was about whether or not Thai women can adapt to a foreign culture when introduced to that culture by their farang partners. And this discussion is frequently started by someone asking on here if that scenario can work.

The article contains plenty of actual information obtained from migrant Thai spouses living in the UK about their perceptions and how they are adapting/coping. And that information tells us that, for the most part, they do adapt, but with plenty of insecurities and difficulties.

So, there we have it. Now we don't have to theorise our preconceptions about why these women will/won't adapt in a foreign culture: We have plenty of facts 'straight from the horse's mouth'.

Old Thai Hand
03-20-08, 15:26
OTH

Re-examining your statement on Thai suicide rate - please look up wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_suicide_rate. While this chart is somewhat imperfect it does question you assertion about high suicide rates in Thailand.

Also I wasn't implying that Thai laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude was acceptable, actually I make no judgement on that at all but I was simply trying to show that maybe there are historical reasons for this Thai laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude.

You're citing wikipedia as a credible source??? Well, anyway all I know is that over the years I've witnessed an incredible amount of stories of suicide in the Thai news media and the stress of modern life and the high suicide rate are often discussed on news shows here.

Old Thai Hand
03-20-08, 15:27
You appear not to have read the article properly. It is a study of the general Thai migrant population in the UK (or, rather, specific target areas of the UK).

The discussion on this thread was about whether or not Thai women can adapt to a foreign culture when introduced to that culture by their farang partners. And this discussion is frequently started by someone asking on here if that scenario can work.

The article contains plenty of actual information obtained from migrant Thai spouses living in the UK about their perceptions and how they are adapting/coping. And that information tells us that, for the most part, they do adapt, but with plenty of insecurities and difficulties.

So, there we have it. Now we don't have to theorise our preconceptions about why these women will/won't adapt in a foreign culture: We have plenty of facts 'straight from the horse's mouth'.

I'll re-read it.

Lover Boy #2
03-21-08, 05:15
The may be better suited for another forum in the ISG but I believe my thoughts would be beneficial here. Gentlemen, please consider this when contemplating returning to your native "First-World" country with your Thai lady ("significant other", "significant other/future spouse, or just plain spouse, it is usually immaterial! ).

To not identify particular women/countries (as, in my opinion, they are all "guilty as sin" to more/lesser extent) I will use my "pet" phrase of "Caucasia (ians)" as to mean single/"available" women who inhabit "First-World" Western countries (Caucasia).

Let me first state that, with globalization becoming more of a reality, the situation I will speak about, hopefully, will be less of a problem in the future and, I were the "King of the world" would be a "non-factor" as of yesterday!

I firmly believe that Caucasian women play the old "double standard" reacting shamefully regarding their opinions/actions regarding men who choose the "mail-order bride" route (I know I am dating myself, but please indulge me! ).

The mindset of many "available" Caucasian women is that if, Caucasian men do not "make the grade". That is, for whatever reason (s), we are not "attractive"(defined as being too poor, too fat, too short, too old, bad dresser, "unsmooth" personality"-the list is endless! ) enough to deserve to have emotional/physical relationships with THEM ONLY! For these unforgivable attributes, it is thought by many Caucasian women, we should all die lonely and horny.

Thinking outside this sphere (or, as I like to call it, "the box") is not an option, according to Caucasian women, as we must accept our WELL-DESERVED fate with them "calling the shots".

Bringing a "mail-order bride" back to Caucasia is nothing short of taking the cheap, dirty and easy way out of your intended destiny! The fact that you are happy (now enjoying companionship that you have a measure (varying) of control over and, hopefully, frequent and great sex) does not fit in the equation as you, by not playing by Caucasian women's convoluted rules, have flunked the test!

Congratulations! You have just graduated from being a pathetic "loser" to being a pathetic "loser" who now is on the "A-List" for "Pimp 'n Ho" party invites!

As you intoduce your "main squeeze" around and explain the particulars get use to cold chills, nervous laughs and the fake "Cheshire Cat" smiles. You took the "easy way out" and that is unforgiveable in a capitalistic society that only recognizes challenges and successes.

And I will not even get into the "physical appearance" disconnect as it varies by location.

The Cardinal sin we commit, according to many Caucasian women, is we "quit" the, what I like to call, "Futile Dating Debacle" and, as we all are told, "winners never quit and quitters never win". SO THERE!

It is easy to delude ourselves by thinking that my Thai lady and I will build a "force field" around the judgmental society around us but don't buy it! Unless we live like hermits in a vacuum (no external people interactions of ANY kind). The negative vibes will put a real strain on an already awkward situation ("different" looking lady in a strange/frightening new culture).

Think about it!

I think, simply said, girls look at a guy in "Caucasia" with a girlfriend/fiancee/wife from a third world country as being a loser who couldn't get the local quality and had to resort to the import process. I agree they would want you to suffer and die as an un-happy worker bee and you beat the system by your process. They will always believe that you couldn't score because you are not a saleable item. Let's face it, Thailand and other Asian countries are a bit different from the rest of the world in that you really need no game (at all) to get a pretty decent looking lady. Try mongering or looking for bride material in South America for example. You will need a lot more skills to reach success, for example language, personal appearance, grooming, and mabe a bit of "play" to move the situation to the next level. In the end though, who cares what the ladies in Caucasia think.....enjoy your life to the best of your ability and let them wallow in their prejudice.

Fon Tok
03-21-08, 08:58
In the end though, who cares what the ladies in Caucasia think.....enjoy your life to the best of your ability and let them wallow in their prejudice.I'll drink a few bia Sings to that!

And tonight I'll have a great meal and massage provided by my sweet Thai partner! In turn, I just have to contribute a few Baht to send home to "ma" and the kid every month back on the farm. And I'd very happily do this for my Irish-American "ma" too if she was not so independent and stubborn!

Old Thai Hand
03-21-08, 14:54
Let's face it, Thailand and other Asian countries are a bit different from the rest of the world in that you really need no game (at all) to get a pretty decent looking lady.

It depends on what quality of "lady" you're talking about. In fact, it can take quite a bit of effort to get a good-looking non-P4P TG.

I don't want to make assumptions about anyone here. But, let's face it. The vast majority of people reading this board and posting have only ever met impoverished girls working in P4P and from that have formed opinions of Thai women which are completely false and highly skewed, to say the least. In general, excluding P4P, Thai women are sexually repressed because the culture is sexually repressed. So, if one does encounter a "regular" TG who's an easy lay, she's most probably a bit sketchy in one way or another, not that "regular", as it turns out, and thus probably not worth hanging onto for anything other than a bit of fun.

If one is content with P4P, or the fuzzy fringes of semi-pros who try to pass for regular TGs, then your opinion is absolutely correct.

But, if one wishes to move into the general population of Thai women, who are truly representative of the reality of the culture, it becomes a whole new ballgame. It can and does sometimes take as much, if not more time, money and effort to get a good-looking regular Thai woman, as it does to get a woman in the US, for example. And, just like American (or British or Canadian or Australian etc. etc.) they too can be ball-busters during the process.

The only difference is that once you're "in", the rewards are greater because unlike a Western woman, a Thai woman won't subject you to all that post-Germaine Grier femi-Nazi nonsense one often encounters "back home".

Lover Boy #2
03-22-08, 03:49
If one is content with P4P, or the fuzzy fringes of semi-pros who try to pass for regular TGs, then your opinion is absolutely correct.

That is generally what I was talking about.....the "fuzzy fringes". Being introspective about this, I think I prefer the fuzzy fringes under most circumstances. I think the fuzzy fringe can intrude into the periphery of 9-5 society at times in Thailand (for economic and religious reasons), hence the reason so many guys are surprised what happens with certain girls they thought were "good" (I have been one of them)....but they were really in the fuzzy fringe. In South America and a few other places.....even the outskirt of this fringe cannot be penetrated without some personal skills that I have outlined before. True P4P can even be difficult to obtain under many circumstances for the challenged in some areas. It is my opinion that in Thailand the P4P and fuzzy fringes can be had by a guy with no play.....this same guy would have a nighmare in some other areas where the P4P and fringe girls are less and have beliefs which might exclude many who are successful in Thailand. Do you agree?

I do agree with your comments (and maybe stand corrected) in that a real "catch" in Thailand might take a lot more skill and patience. This catch would mean a woman who was no where near the fringe.....almost on a throne of never needing money or help from outside her family and hence she can be very selective....similar to western world situations.

The thing about Thailand (IMHO)....is that the east Indian, Thai borne lady presented to me as ultra-hiso....who went to school in Great Britian, spoke fluent English (real English not Thaiglish)...had a ton of cash and drove a Mercedes...was really in the fuzzy fringe in a lot of ways once I got invoved with her. Thailand is a tough place because this fuzzy fringe can be huge and might encompass more of the general population than some are willing to admit.

NicFrenchy
03-22-08, 03:59
It depends on what quality of "lady" you're talking about. In fact, it can take quite a bit of effort to get a good-looking non-P4P TG.True. However Looks play a big role here. If you are not properly dressed and do not speak Thai, your chances are VERY slim.


But, if one wishes to move into the general population of Thai women, who are truly representative of the reality of the culture, it becomes a whole new ballgame. It can and does sometimes take as much, if not more time, money and effort to get a good-looking regular Thai woman, as it does to get a woman in the US, for example.

I would even go as far as saying that it will take you MORE effort to land a Good looking TG rather than a girl in your home country.

In my opinion (and I am only talking for myself here), it is not worth the effort unless you are looking for long term Relationship/Marriage. There are a lot of girls (non P4P, non Semi-pro [whatever that means]) that are ready to go out with Farangs for a fun and good time.

I had a date last night with the Shampoo girl from my HairSalon, we had a lot of fun and she ended up Staying the night in my condo.


The only difference is that once you're "in", the rewards are greater because unlike a Western woman, a Thai woman won't subject you to all that post-Germaine Grier femi-Nazi nonsense one often encounters "back home".I do not have enough Experience to judge this as All the girlfriends I had before Thailand were not "Femi-nazi", but I can tell you that I had 2 serious relationship with Thai Girls and that is has its fair share of Headaches.

Old Thai Hand
03-22-08, 04:36
Thailand is a tough place because this fuzzy fringe can be huge and might encompass more of the general population than some are willing to admit.

This may seem to contradict what I previously said (sexually repressed...etc. etc.) and I do believe in what I wrote about. But, I also agree with you on this because of the many layers and intracacies of the issue. It's the general complexity of Thai culture and therefore Thai women as a part of the large doses of hypocricy that exist within Thai culture - lots of gray areas, lots of secrets. Add to this, that IMO, Thais lack a moral centre and it can sometimes be a slippery slope. Say what you will about Judeao-Christian guilt combined with morality and hard-core ethics; I think it has given westerners at least a strong understanding of honesty and integrity even if we don't always follow the tenets of it all 100%. Thais flat out simply lack this.

There's been lots written in the past about the issue of lying within Thai culture - the fact that Thais do it as a matter of course. Thai women are consumate liars. It is so embedded in the culture that they can't even recognize when they're doing it. So, the dishonesty and corruption that is so pervasive in the culture as a whole is rarely identified, despite the fact that they all make oblique references to it as something that is bad, while enthusiastically practicing it. I witness it so much on a daily basis, that I've become almost numbed by it. A little off topic, but still an example...yesterday I was in a meeting during which my Thai female boss blatantly lied, or perhaps just creatively re-engineered the history of a certain event in which I was a key figure and did so while I was sitting directly opposite her. There would have been a time when I would have called her on it, particularly because it was SO obvious. But, I decided to just let her run with the lie, because she said it with such amazing conviction, that I'm sure it is exactly how she remembered it and what's worse it was so convincing that I started to doubt my own belief in the truth - LOL.

Anyway, all of this contributes to the that "fuzzy fringe"..... OK, now I'm just waiting for some wag to make a joke about the "fuzzy fringe" - ah there - hopefully I've pre-empted it. :D

Raverboy
03-22-08, 11:37
...A little off topic, but still an example...yesterday I was in a meeting during which my Thai female boss blatantly lied, or perhaps just creatively re-engineered the history of a certain event in which I was a key figure and did so while I was sitting directly opposite her. There would have been a time when I would have called her on it, particularly because it was SO obvious. But, I decided to just let her run with the lie, because she said it with such amazing conviction, that I'm sure it is exactly how she remembered it and what's worse it was so convincing that I started to doubt my own belief in the truth - LOL.

Oh yes, looks like even you have come around to the *asian* way of doing things... ;) (just pokin' at ya OTH!)

The 're-engineering' of the history of that certain event, if I could offer a mere guess, would have been for the 'benefit' (or your female boss' perceived 'benefit') to your organization, or at least to give herself and/or her department (which includes you) some 'face' to those present at the meeting. Your female boss would have had an irretrievable loss of face should you have 'called her on it' during the meeting and I would hate to imagine the consequences of that disaster...

I'm sure this happens more often than people would admit, even in the Western world.... also reminds me of a line in some Hollywood movie (can't remember which one) that I would use to poke fun at friends in the legal profession:

"I'm a lawyer, the truth is irrelevant!"

Old Thai Hand
03-23-08, 04:44
Oh yes, looks like even you have come around to the *asian* way of doing things... ;) (just pokin' at ya OTH!)

That's ok. It's true that I've succumbed to a certain extent. I've finally realized that in a very strong, anti-Farang environment, nothing is to be gained by being "un-Thai" (i.e. actually have the nerve to question something). The Thais don't respect Farang, hold us in contempt, at the best of times and won't listen to us even though (and especially because) we know more than they do and are actually capable of a level of competence unheard among Thais. Now, I'm just learning to go with the flow and it seems to help keep me below the radar, which is all I want at this stage in my life.



The 're-engineering' of the history of that certain event, if I could offer a mere guess, would have been for the 'benefit' (or your female boss' perceived 'benefit') to your organization, or at least to give herself and/or her department (which includes you) some 'face' to those present at the meeting. Your female boss would have had an irretrievable loss of face should you have 'called her on it' during the meeting and I would hate to imagine the consequences of that disaster...

Spot on. It's all about "show without substance" (the cornerstone of Thai culture) and specifically, in this case to enhance my boss' image at my expense.

Bringing this back to some relevance...it's all about face and taking care of oneself, and that's why they all lie; whether it's some HiSo *****, like my boss or the lowliest Isaan bargirl. Same same. In fact, lack of honesty and integrity increases the higher up you go on the food chain. The HiSo garbage that run this country lie to agrandise themselves at the great expense of others. BGs merely lie, most of the time just to survive.

Terry Terrier
03-23-08, 07:57
Telling lies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxXaqELffGQ&feature=related

Old Thai Hand
03-23-08, 08:52
Telling lies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxXaqELffGQ&feature=related

FUNNY!!!

EVERY soft-hearted knob who says that the girl he's met is "different", should be locked in a room and made to watch this for 24 hours over and over and over again.

Raverboy
03-23-08, 11:30
telling lies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxxaqelffgq&feature=related

lol! definitely required viewing for all who are prone to falling into the "kc trap"! the best part of the video to me is at approx. 4:30 when she picks up a call from a friend, speaking in thai:

"man bpee gaeng nor...(!)"

she used 'gu' to refer to herself (very ghetto) and 'man' to refer to the farang... (equivalent to 'it'!!)

Raverboy
03-23-08, 11:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFFAZ9HrAEM&feature=related

This is link to a video of some Hong Kong guy who 'interviews' (in fairly fluent Thai) various Thai P4P ladies he meets during his travels to Thailand. He has amassed a collection of over 500 such videos, is seemingly creepy but there's something about the dark humour in his collecting these little 'vignettes' of Thai P4P ladies. Those of you who understand Thai will get yet another perspective!

Click on his handle in the top right to see all his videos.

Seydlitz
03-23-08, 15:28
Telling lies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxXaqELffGQ&feature=related


No surprise here.

I have always been of the opinion that if you want to sponsor a TG, you need to live with her. That way, you get maximum mileage out of your cash. Also, you have at least some control on her that you cannot have if you live half a world away and spend only a few weeks per year in Thailand.

One has to admire the gentle way that these TGs have to extract money form a gullible Farang (or many gullible Farangs). That particular TG looks nice enough. I hope the guy on the phone gets his money’s worth in sex and attention when he is in town. In any case, one could consider that the man is buying an illusion, and that is what he gets; the illusion of being loved by a cute girl half his age for relatively little money.

Seydlitz
03-23-08, 15:43
A little off topic, but still an example...yesterday I was in a meeting during which my Thai female boss blatantly lied, or perhaps just creatively re-engineered the history of a certain event in which I was a key figure and did so while I was sitting directly opposite her. There would have been a time when I would have called her on it, particularly because it was SO obvious. But, I decided to just let her run with the lie, because she said it with such amazing conviction, that I'm sure it is exactly how she remembered it and what's worse it was so convincing that I started to doubt my own belief in the truth - LOL.


OTH,

I had a colleague who was just like that boss of yours. He cannot cope with the world the way it is and in particular he cannot admit that he is ever wrong or that someone he sees as a potential competitor could be right, more capable, etc. As a result, he tells stories in which he rearranges the truth to his advantage all the time. He does so with the utmost conviction that shows he actually can deceive himself. I have been the “victim” of that behaviour countless of times, to the point that sometimes I would doubt my own recollection or perception of the facts. He also lies as a matter of fact, typically because he tries to manipulate everybody, occasionally promising to give something it is not in his power to bestow, or to promise the same thing to several people. As you remarked in your little anecdote, his antics are so obvious, but nonetheless he seems to go on and on.

No doubt this guy could easily pass for HISo Thai scum, but very much a Farang like us.

Xsailor
03-29-08, 23:12
But, if one wishes to move into the general population of Thai women, who are truly representative of the reality of the culture, it becomes a whole new ballgame. It can and does sometimes take as much, if not more time, money and effort to get a good-looking regular Thai woman, as it does to get a woman in the US, for example. And, just like American (or British or Canadian or Australian etc. etc.) they too can be ball-busters during the process.

The only difference is that once you're "in", the rewards are greater because unlike a Western woman, a Thai woman won't subject you to all that post-Germaine Grier femi-Nazi nonsense one often encounters "back home".This is true, take it from one who has been married to a TG 7 years now. I will add Thai women, in particular those who are educated, tend to have a "class" mentality about them. Those with a BS degree won't date anyone who does not. If they have a Masters, they are happy to date a farang with the same because it's difficult for them to find an equal in their own culture. Having a mate accepted by their family and friends means more to them than your money. That's just the way it is.

XS

Retired Army
04-02-08, 07:50
True. However Looks play a big role here. If you are not properly dressed and do not speak Thai, your chances are VERY slim.

I would even go as far as saying that it will take you MORE effort to land a Good looking TG rather than a girl in your home country.

In my opinion (and I am only talking for myself here), it is not worth the effort unless you are looking for long term Relationship/Marriage. There are a lot of girls (non P4P, non Semi-pro [whatever that means]) that are ready to go out with Farangs for a fun and good time.



The best way to meet a good looking (non P4P) TG is to introduced by another Thai.

Johan007
04-03-08, 12:03
telling lies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxxaqelffgq&feature=relatedoh man. so funny what some peeps put on youtube. i nearly wet myself when see this.

lol

johan

Fast Buck Artist
04-07-08, 06:13
Good Morning Gentlemen,

my first post, first trip to land of Thai, and first experience with Thai girls. In other words, a clueless newb.

Briefly about myself: 25 yo white male, finance industry pro, in BK for a biz trip.

On to the action:
Exploring the Cowboy area of Bangkok, I bumped into a bar with totally naked girlies shaking their booty on stage (isnt that illegal here?). Picked one target at random (they all seemed identical in both body type, skin color, face expression and total lack of grey matter between the ears). She sat on my lap, and we small-talked a bit, she passed the boner test so I have barfined her for 700 baht. The mamasan character in that place was a major cockblock so I was happy to move out.

Out of the venue, the girl looked much less enthused despite my best efforts to be charming, to revive the "chemistry" I showed her my PDA pictures of my house, hometown, and said I dont have a wife back home. That dangling carrot got things going until my hotel's reception desk where the guard took suspiciously long time to check her ID card, the whole time he was giggling like a 6 year old groped by Ronald McDonald.

At the room I jumped into the shower, while the girl flipped on the TV and was yapping on the phone. Thais seem to have 2 languages - one for talking to foreign customers that includes a lot of bowing and softly spoken melodic words, and another for talking to each other that contains short barking shouts in high pitched voice.

On to the main event, the girl had lots of trouble dealing with the length of my manhood, I am no lost brother of ManDingo, just a typical euro-sized guy, maybe 7.5 inch, but I am glad I brought my own condoms coz the local ones sold here are uncomfortably small. Had to empty quarter of a KY Jelly lube tube to slide it in, and anal was out of question.

We went at it for an hour, she was pretending to enjoy it with some fake moans but it was clearly act not worthy of an Academy Award. Credit to her, she took my every request with loyal obedience and determination of a spartan soldier on a mission deep behind enemy lines. The only complain I heard was when drops of cum hit her hair.

She didnt ask for money and said give what you want. I had no small notes, so passed her 2 1000 baht bills, have no idea what the local prices are, she seemed happy with that. Left me her phone number and asked to meet again.

Overall, I am kinda disillusioned. I realised I dont really enjoy it unless my partner does too. Guess I have a "giver" personality? Or do you all feel this way? Maybe the whole Elliott Spitzer thing is just not for me....

The professional babes here seem to be permanently damaged goods after a month working the bar pole. I am considering trying a local "good girl" instead. Someone earlier said it's really hard if you dont know Thai. The only Thai words I know are "Sawatdee" and "Tom Yum", but I seem to be madly popular with waitresses. Maybe because I tip them? They get paid peanuts and tipping doesnt seem to be in fashion here. If you dont tip a waiter in USA, you'll get some "extra sauce" in your soup next time you come in. Oh, and salesgirls hit on me too. The other day I got stopped by 2 salesbabes for some kind of hotel survey, and 2 minutes later I was being given their mobile numbers and an invite for a date. Either I am incredibly charming, or they noticed I ticked the 80000+ USD income box, LOL. It's safer to be cynical about that.

Flames, smartcracks, advice, all appreciated!

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

NicFrenchy
04-07-08, 09:33
oh man. so funny what some peeps put on youtube. i nearly wet myself when see this.

lol

johan

unfortunately the user removed the video so those of us who are too late no longer have a chance to laugh at it.

Old Thai Hand
04-07-08, 14:39
This is true, take it from one who has been married to a TG 7 years now. I will add Thai women, in particular those who are educated, tend to have a "class" mentality about them. Those with a BS degree won't date anyone who does not. If they have a Masters, they are happy to date a farang with the same because it's difficult for them to find an equal in their own culture. Having a mate accepted by their family and friends means more to them than your money. That's just the way it is.

XS

This is quite true. In fact, many Thai men generally don't like a Thai woman who is too educated. They find it intimidating because she's likely to have her own opinion about things, far less likely to be subservient and will be quite independent overall. A lot of my Thai female colleagues, with PhDs are single or divorced. Many of them are quite good-looking, but tell me that it's difficult for them to find a Thai man because Thai men don't like dealing with an intelligent woman.

Duniawala
04-07-08, 16:37
This is quite true. In fact, many Thai men generally don't like a Thai woman who is too educated. ............... A lot of my Thai female colleagues, with PhDs are single or divorced. Many of them are quite good-looking, but tell me that it's difficult for them to find a Thai man because Thai men don't like dealing with an intelligent woman.
That's not just a Thai fact, it is a global fact. It's called compatibility.

Petrol Pete
04-07-08, 21:49
Listen up Fast Buck Artist and do some research on Ladyboys; the guard could have been giggling because he saw the ID being that she is a "HE".

Sorry about the bubble bursting, but wlecome to Thailand.


Good Morning Gentlemen,

my first post, first trip to land of Thai, and first experience with Thai girls. In other words, a clueless newb.

Briefly about myself: 25 yo white male, finance industry pro, in BK for a biz trip.

On to the action:

Exploring the Cowboy area of Bangkok, I bumped into a bar with totally naked girlies shaking their booty on stage (isnt that illegal here?). Picked one target at random (they all seemed identical in both body type, skin color, face expression and total lack of grey matter between the ears). She sat on my lap, and we small-talked a bit, she passed the boner test so I have barfined her for 700 baht. The mamasan character in that place was a major cockblock so I was happy to move out.

Out of the venue, the girl looked much less enthused despite my best efforts to be charming, to revive the "chemistry" I showed her my PDA pictures of my house, hometown, and said I dont have a wife back home. That dangling carrot got things going until my hotel's reception desk where the guard took suspiciously long time to check her ID card, the whole time he was giggling like a 6 year old groped by Ronald McDonald.

At the room I jumped into the shower, while the girl flipped on the TV and was yapping on the phone. Thais seem to have 2 languages - one for talking to foreign customers that includes a lot of bowing and softly spoken melodic words, and another for talking to each other that contains short barking shouts in high pitched voice.

On to the main event, the girl had lots of trouble dealing with the length of my manhood, I am no lost brother of ManDingo, just a typical euro-sized guy, maybe 7.5 inch, but I am glad I brought my own condoms coz the local ones sold here are uncomfortably small. Had to empty quarter of a KY Jelly lube tube to slide it in, and anal was out of question.

We went at it for an hour, she was pretending to enjoy it with some fake moans but it was clearly act not worthy of an Academy Award. Credit to her, she took my every request with loyal obedience and determination of a spartan soldier on a mission deep behind enemy lines. The only complain I heard was when drops of cum hit her hair.

She didnt ask for money and said give what you want. I had no small notes, so passed her 2 1000 baht bills, have no idea what the local prices are, she seemed happy with that. Left me her phone number and asked to meet again.

Overall, I am kinda disillusioned. I realised I dont really enjoy it unless my partner does too. Guess I have a "giver" personality? Or do you all feel this way? Maybe the whole Elliott Spitzer thing is just not for me....

The professional babes here seem to be permanently damaged goods after a month working the bar pole. I am considering trying a local "good girl" instead. Someone earlier said it's really hard if you dont know Thai. The only Thai words I know are "Sawatdee" and "Tom Yum", but I seem to be madly popular with waitresses. Maybe because I tip them? They get paid peanuts and tipping doesnt seem to be in fashion here. If you dont tip a waiter in USA, you'll get some "extra sauce" in your soup next time you come in. Oh, and salesgirls hit on me too. The other day I got stopped by 2 salesbabes for some kind of hotel survey, and 2 minutes later I was being given their mobile numbers and an invite for a date. Either I am incredibly charming, or they noticed I ticked the 80000+ USD income box, LOL. It's safer to be cynical about that.

Flames, smartcracks, advice, all appreciated!

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Hobert Am
04-08-08, 01:11
I just had to comment on the BG opinions. Being in my 20's you gotta realize a LOT of hapa people my age I've met (half filipino, viet, thai or chinese) had dads who "met mom while in the service" back in the 60s and 70s

Come on now, more than a few of these were bargirls they brought back. Women have a funny way of changing from sluts to good girls, from wild chicks to great caring mothers.

Wierd.

Hobert Am
04-08-08, 01:17
So I'm going to be taking a break from my career to go to Pattaya or Phucket to train Muay Thai for a half a year or so for the sheer hell of it.

As that's a long time I've got a question - are there normal nightlife areas in Thailand? Where I can meet english speaking, perhaps college educated, regular people?

I ask because after doing a bunch of research in the Shanghai forum on mongering, when I finally went there I ended up just hitting up clubs and meeting new friends, having fun through that outlet. In Shanghai despite all the crazy nightlife there are tons of expat bars where normal women, educated and english speaking hang out. But reading Thailand and from what I've heard from older friends who have been in the service - seems it's just crazy crazy WGs!

Someone please set me straight.

Dinghy
04-08-08, 02:10
well Buck - nope, it's only ILLEGAL if they get caught. Add to that the local gendarmerie is pretty well paid off, so what might not happen elsewhere can be found on Cowboy.

You gave her what she would have asked anyway - but YES - you did have "NEWBIE" written all over you.

Try a bit of probing next time and see if the rest of the poo-ying "clicks" instead

PosterLion
04-09-08, 01:42
HERE AND GONE

As the air-conditioner drones in my room
I know my lies are no less common than other lies
and I know I will forget what I have promised not to–

yet I have not forgotten any of them
all of them mattered in their own way
and mine
even so, they are gone
and I am happy
for them

they deserved better
they all deserved better
and I . . .

I deserved
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . much
. . . . . . . . much
l e s s

PosterLion
04-09-08, 02:03
WHAT IS LOVE

What is love? A lifetime spent
Of days that pain does fill,
That thousand tears can't content,
But asks for tears still.

With but a little glance coquette
Your soul it knows to tie,
That of its spell you can't forget
Until the day you die.

Upon your threshold does it stand,
In every nook conspire,
That you may whisper hand in hand
Your tale of heart's aspire.

Till fades the very earth and sky,
Your heart completely broken,
And all the world hangs on a sigh,
A word but partly spoken.

It follows you for weeks and weeks
And in your soul assembles
The memory of blushing cheeks
And eyelash fair that trembles.

It comes to you a sudden ray
As though of starlight's spending,
How many and many a time each day
And every night unending.

For of your life has fate decreed
That pain shall it enfold,
As does the clinging waterweed
About a swimmer hold.

M P Lurker
04-09-08, 07:40
HERE AND GONE

As the air-conditioner drones in my room
I know my lies are no less common than other lies
and I know I will forget what I have promised not to–

yet I have not forgotten any of them
all of them mattered in their own way
and mine
even so, they are gone
and I am happy
for them

they deserved better
they all deserved better
and I . . .

I deserved
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . much
. . . . . . . . much
l e s s

PL,

I can identify with these feelings. I find it very hard to split with ex-GFs but also feel I haven't been as good as they would have liked or deserved.

I make a point of not promising anything that I have any possibility of forgetting or failing to fulfill. Often forgetting a promise is much worse than failing to perform the task or obligation.

You are artistic, eloquent, a nice guy, and even good looking (jealous). From these points points alone you will deserve far more than most.

Consider how you stack up against the competition. Then see if you deserve much less than all the other guys out there.

Nobody's perfect. But you can imagine the difficulties for Thai girls to find the perfect man.

Fast Buck Artist
04-09-08, 10:26
Thai man because Thai men don't like dealing with an intelligent woman.Thats true everywhere, isnt it?

If a woman is smart and independent, she is going to have the upper hand in the relationship. A guy who likes to be the boss in the house would want to get a woman he can boss around. The dumber and helpless the better.

So where would a single guy here get to know these smart single professional ladies longing for companionship? Online dating? Online job ads? University campus? I am not intimidated by a smart girl, crush me with your 160 IQ baby!

Fast Buck Artist
04-09-08, 23:40
Being a stubborn hardhead who doesnt give up on the first try, I went back to the battle plans and restrategized. Ok, so what went wrong on the first night?

1. I picked the first ***** that sat on my lap. The girl was obviously an experienced professional whose feelings have been long replaced with cold calculation. Not the kind you want for a girlfriend experience.

2. She was just too small and tight for me. I doubt she could sit straight the next day. Of course she didn't enjoy it, duh, idiot. Pick a girl your own size next time.

Armed with these insights, I headed to Nana Plaza this time, and spotted a bar with really tall girls inside, except there was something wrong about them. They were like an oversized Barbie doll glossed with Photoshop. And they talked like gay men. I can't recall the name of the place, "Obsession" maybe? I obviously stumbled into a tranny joint. Credit to the surgeons, these were the best crafted trannies I have ever seen. Impressive work.

To be safe, I headed back to Cowboy street, into a blue themed strip bar. Fairly popular, with lots of westerners and about 30 girls of all sizes, curves and attitudes. Here they had the bras on, but were wiggling barenekkid asses.

- First target was a slightly older girl that intrigued me, she was about 8 years older than all the others. Talked to her for a bit, she had a very "mum" attitude about her. After some probing and pointing to the stretch marks on her stomach, I found out she was indeed a mum, and had elderly parents to take care of too, thats why she was still working the bar at her age. On top of that, she had needle scars on her arms. Bought her some drinks to cheer her up, but thats all.

- Second target was a well dressed hot arrogant girl that was a total ****. She molested me in imaginative ways like grabbing dick through the shorts and sticking the tongue out dripping saliva and panting in a "drooling ***** in heat" kind of act. Hot girl, but clearly a seasoned professional, so I convinced a nearby patron to buy her a drink to get rid of her.

- Third target was a shy girl sitting in the corner alone and watching what other girls were doing. Didn't speak a word of english. Looked out of place. I got some communication going with sign language, showed her some funny videos on my PDA, got her some drinks, danced with her, and managed to spark some chemistry, I think. She was obviously a new recruit straight off the farm. Hmm. I think I found what I was looking for! Barfined her for 600 bhat and we were off to my hotel.

As hoped, she was totally acting like a girlfriend, she flirted, laughed, pouted, took care of me, just like a fiancee on a date would. We had some snacks, played Tetris on my laptop, I put on some Tai Oratai songs that she knew by heart and sang along.

Moving onto bed, she insisted immediately on condom (GOOD! If a girl accepts your offer to bareback her, kick her out immediately, you've got an HIV carrier in the room.) She was really shy about her small breasts, first asked to keep her bra on, then asked to turn off the light. I put an end to that nonsense and gave her some excellent oral, she was very wet and came thoroughly. The rest of the night was fucking great with sessions of singing, playing, snacking, dancing and fucking for hours.

Asked her for phone number before she was going home, she was so happy to give it she jumped on me and I had to give her a piggyback ride down the hotel corridor: o)

Sigh. In a couple of months she'll be wrecked by the bar scene into another cold manipulative professional with no feelings or scruples, caring about one thing only. Cash. Damn shame. Well, we all make our choices in life.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Old Thai Hand
04-10-08, 01:31
Thats true everywhere, isnt it?

If a woman is smart and independent, she is going to have the upper hand in the relationship. A guy who likes to be the boss in the house would want to get a woman he can boss around. The dumber and helpless the better.

So where would a single guy here get to know these smart single professional ladies longing for companionship? Online dating? Online job ads? University campus? I am not intimidated by a smart girl, crush me with your 160 IQ baby!

If you don't live here, you won't have much luck meeting "smart, single, professional ladies". You might also be hard-pressed to find any with a 160 IQ, anyway. Even the most intelligent Thais don't stack up when compared to westerners. Intelligence is relative in this country.

If you indeed want dumb and helpless, this is the place to look. The country has an over-abundance of women who fit that description.

Member #3428
04-10-08, 01:41
If you don't live here, you won't have much luck meeting "smart, single, professional ladies".

Clarify... if you visit often, travel there often, it is not hard to find the ladies, non P4P ladies and the professional ladies. Especially through your work over there it is not difficult. Many ladies I meet there through work are single and come across as very forward after a while. They are not 21 year old's... but 26 to 34 is a good range of smart ladies I meet in work.

I am not saying it's easy, and it is much less trouble to go P4P but it is possible if you are around enough even if you don't live there.

A big issue I have found is communication, if you stay in touch with them even when you are not there your chances of scoring are greatly increased when you are there. But don't let them find out you go P4P, one time one lady found out I was out with P4P and that killed everything and helped ruin some work I was working on. So not always worth going non p4p.

NicFrenchy
04-10-08, 04:40
A big issue I have found is communication, if you stay in touch with them even when you are not there your chances of scoring are greatly increased when you are there.

Well this is obvious as we are not talking about a poor issan girl looking for a sponsor while she Frolics with other punters. Thai girls working in Managerial positions know what they want, and they certainly don't want a platonic or internet relationship where they can get to see their boyfriend twice a year. As OTH mentionned, if you aren't living here then your chances of landing a Good non P4P girl are slim to none.

I meet a lot of Hi-so women in my line of work and let me tell you something, they are all educated, speak English fairly well (from a Frenchman's Point of view anyway) but are very bitchy and self centered which is a big turn-off. They are used to getting what they want when they want it and think that they can buy their way through everything. These are certainly not the type of ladies I would date and I have refused a couple of offers. For one, it's all fun on their side, having sex with the young farang and then telling their friends all about it but what scares me the most is to get caught and expelled from the country because Mommy and/or Daddy is a very powerful "somebody".


But don't let them find out you go P4P, one time one lady found out I was out with P4P and that killed everything and helped ruin some work I was working on. So not always worth going non p4p.

True, non P4P Thais see "prostitutes" as the Lowest class level, you should hear what my Thai Staff (the Ladies) say about them, it certainly is not pretty. The males on the other hand keep very quiet about the issue because they all partake in P4P.

Old Thai Hand
04-10-08, 09:27
For one, it's all fun on their side, having sex with the young farang and then telling their friends all about it but what scares me the most is to get caught and expelled from the country because Mommy and/or Daddy is a very powerful "somebody".

This is so true. I'm not a young Farang, but an old one, who falls into that "Daddy" role. For those that don't know, being called "Daddy" by a TG has strong sexual connotations. I took a group of 18-19 y.o. dek noo (dek noo=HiSo rich kids) to Europe last summer for a study-abroad trip and they eventually all started calling me Daddy. They were always grabbing me and touching me - a very un-Thai thing to do, especially in public. Away from university and particularly Thailand, they could let loose. Late one night, one showed up at my room dressed in very thin pajamas and nothing else; there to ask some question that she already knew the answer to. It was quite clear that I could have just asked her in and shagged her on the spot. It was obvious, she had a school-girl crush on me (and still does - back at school and she's still fondling me all the time, even in class). But, this girl's family are sooooooooooo rich and powerful, that if I had done something (or did something, now), I'd regret it, as it would surely go wrong. All these girls, while quite stunning looking are extremely high maintenance and ultimately not worth the trouble.

I maintain that the best TGs to go after are middle-class educated, professionals - not too rich - but interesting enough to be entertaining outside the bedroom.




True, non P4P Thais see "prostitutes" as the Lowest class level, you should hear what my Thai Staff (the Ladies) say about them, it certainly is not pretty.

Lower than maids, and those women who sweep the streets, and that's saying something. There's certainly a stigma attached, if you're discovered to have partaken of P4P, even if you don't any longer (like me). My GF has asked me if I ever did in the past. I've flat-out said 'no' because I know she'd dump me in a heartbeat, if I ever admitted it. She probably knows that I have. But, as long as on the surface I appear to have never shagged a hooker, everything is ok. My GF is pretty typical of Thais. She hates bargirls. When my last condo building started to get overrun with Farang and their bar-girlfriends, my GF insisted we move, as it looked bad to her family for her to be living there, even though it was a good building in a good neighbourhood. I actually agreed with her. These Farang guys with these kind of girls lowered the tone of the building and made themselves look bad to the staff who worked there. The building, which was brand new when I moved in, in 2005 has become a somewhat seedy dive in 3 short years largely because of this.

Daddy07
04-10-08, 13:02
... For those that don't know, being called "Daddy" by a TG has strong sexual connotations. ...

I'll attest to that statement! It certainly works well for me.

Old Thai Hand
04-10-08, 16:38
I'll attest to that statement! It certainly works well for me.

Good one.

But, seriously, unless you've branched out into the general population, now that you've been in Pattaya awhile, the term "Daddy" doesn't really apply in a P4P scenario. It really only works in a situation with an older guy and a young, non-P4P girl, often in a business (or in my case) educational environment.

The first time I ever encountered this was 11 years ago when I first moved here and was working for a Thai company. After awhile, a girl in the office asked if they could call my mate, who was 54 at the time, "Daddy". He was a real old Thai hand, having been here since the 70s. He was quite excited about this and gave me the low-down on what "Daddy" really meant. I've since discovered for myself that he was quite right. It may sound slightly unsavory to outsiders. But, it carries a certain cache with women, if they can call you "Daddy" and the added element is that you then call them "Baby". I suppose it's all very childish. But, it works for me. ;)

PosterLion
04-11-08, 01:12
Thanks ML,

but let me tell ya a thing or two
between
old dogs
and the old salt
that stands between 'em.

good looks
as with everything
has high and low
points

a good looking guy
might make
one or two folks
jealous

but in the end
it helps him
get the
girl

and it also
helps
him
understand something
about god's gifts

free gifts
come with a price

they help you
get what you
want

but they also
help you
understand
the extent

of your
unworthyness

because a man with the freedom
of a free
gift

can see his unworthyness
much more clearly
than
the man

that had to try
much harder . . .

ALL THAT ASIDE
I posted those poems
because
my greatest loss
in leaving thailand
is the loss
of a spirit kindred

that any man

handsome or not
would grieve about
heavily

if you, or any like you, enjoy doing some research, I happily and humbly encourage you to cut and past the following at http://www.thai2english.com/

if you spend the time decifering what I have suggested for you to decifer, you will certainly understand my conundrum. This thing that I ask you to understand is one of the most beautiful things anyone has ever offered to me in this life.

cheers to all and to all a good . . . whatever
for me it will be a good er a something or other most likely related to the sudden rush of a stiff drink shooting through me while in the distance there is the faint sound of dorothy's clicking red heels to the beat of toto's happy-i-want-to-go-home bark. :)

poster . . .

ฉันเป็นคนอาภัพนะ ขี้ขลาด หวาดกลัว ไม่ว่าชีวิตรัก ชีวิตครอบครัวก็แย่ๆมากๆ
ไม่ว่าชีวิตฉันจะเป็นเช่นไร ฉันก็อยากให้เธอเชื่อว่า ฉันรักเธอนะ และรักมากด้วย ฉันรู้ว่าเธอเป็นคนที่ใช่ แต่ฉันไม่มีสิทธิ์ที่คิดจะมีเธอไว้ได้นาน ช่วงเวลาที่เราได้อยู่ด้วยกัน ฉันก็อยากให้เราเรียนรู้ซึ่งกันและกัน และให้ความสุขซึ่งกันและกัน มากเท่าที่เราจะให้กันและกันได้ ขอบคุณฟ้าที่ให้ฉันได้เจอเธอนะ พอฉันได้เจอ ได้รู้จัก ได้พูดคุย ฉันมีความรู้สึก อยากใกล้ชิด คิดถึง อยากโทรหา ฉันก็ผ่านชีวิตคุ่มาก็เยอะแล้วนะ แต่มันเป็นอะไรที่แปลกประหลาด เป็นอะไรที่สวยงาม และมีความรู้สึกสุขสดชื่นเหมือนไม่เคยมีความรัก เหมือนมันเป็น ความรักครั้งแรกเลยก็ว่าได้
ทั้งที่ฉันก็โชกโชน ในเรื่องนี้มาก ถามหา เจอที่ดีกว่า ก็เปลี่ยนมาเรื่อย ๆ
ฉันเจอเธอแล้ว ฉันไม่อยากเจอใครเลย อยากจะหยุดทุกสิ่งทุกอย่าง ไม่มีอะไรที่จะดีไปกว่า ได้เจอเธอ และได้มีเวลา อยู่ และใกล้ชิด กับเธอ และมันก็เป็นอะไร ที่ออกจะไม่ง่าย และยากสำหรับ คนที่ใจร้อน และเอาแต่ใจตัวเองเหมือนฉันด้วย
แต่เธอก็เปลี่ยน ตัวฉันได้ทุกอย่าง ฉันคิดว่า ฉันเป็นผู้หญิงที่เก่งมากๆแล้วนะ แต่เจอเธอฉันไม่อยากเก่ง อยากเป็นเด็กๆ อยากไร้เดียงสา และอยากอินโนเซ็น และโรแมนติก
หวานแหวว ตลอดเวลา ทั้งที่มัน ไม่ใช่ตัวฉัน
ฉันต้องเข้มแข็ง บึกบึน ดูแกร่งเหมือนชาย ใครๆเขาก็ว่าฉันจิตใจเหมือนหิน ร่างกายเหมือนชาย แต่ฉันบอก
ได้เลยว่าฉันอ่อนแอมากๆ ทุกคนเห็นในสิ่งที่ไม่ใช่ตัวจริงฉันหรอก แต่ฉันก็ไม่เคยอยากเปิดเผยตัวจริง ให้ใครรู้ ไม่อยากให้ใครเห็นว่าฉันท้อ และอ่อนแอ ไม่ต้องการที่ฉันให้ใครมาสงสาร มาเห็นน้ำตาตกในความอ่อนแอมากมากของฉันหรอกนะ ฉันเปิดเผยตัวตน และความจริง กับเธอทำไมก็ไม่รู้ ฉันโมโหตัวเองตลอดเวลาที่ฉันคิดถึง ว่าได้เล่าชีวิตทุกอย่างที่รู้และได้รับรู้เรื่องราวของฉันทุกอย่าง ทุกเรื่อง แต่ฉันก็ดีใจนะได้เปิดเผยให้ใครสักคนรับรู้ เพราะฉันคิดว่าฉันมีความรัก มีหัวใจและเขารักและเข้าใจฉันมากกว่าคน ที่ฉันรู้จักที่ผ่านมา และฉันก็อยากให้เขารู้ว่าทั้งชีวิต ทั้งหัวใจ ทั้งความหวัง เธอคือจุดหมายสุดท้ายของฉัน
ไม่ว่าจะอยู่ด้วยกัน หรือเลิกกัน เธอก็จะมีค่าสำหรับฉัน และอยู่ในใจฉันเสมอ
ฉันจะรักเธอและคิดถึงเธอ ตลอดลมหายใจ สุดท้ายที่ฉันมีอยู่
แค่เธอทำให้ฉันเห็นว่าตัวฉัน และความรักของฉัน ก็มีค่าอยู่ เท่านี้ ก็เป็นความสุข
พลัง และกำลังใจ ของฉันแล้ว

สาเหตุที่ฉันต้องเสพยาเพราะเครียดในเรื่องงาน และเครียดในเรื่องรัก
เรื่องครอบครัวมากๆ หาความรัก ความอบอุ่น ความจริงใจ ห่วงใย เป็นห่วงฉัน
เข้าใจฉันบ้างไม่มีเลย ฉันไม่มีรัก ไม่มีกำลังใจ แล้วฉันก็ไม่สามารถมีพลัง
มันเป็นพลัง เป็นแรง เป็นความมั่นใจ เป็นความรู้สึก ให้ฉัน รับ และรักสนุกกับอาชีพ ที่ฉันคิดว่าไม่ชอบ แต่ก็เป็นอะไรที่เปลี่ยนชีวิตบ้านนอก เปลี่ยนความยากจน ของฉันได้ ได้เงินดี งานง่ายๆเอาตัวแลก แล้วก็ได้เงิน เงินคือความสุขของฉัน เมื่อฉันมีเงินฉันก็ซื้อมันได้ มันคือความสุขแลมันก็เข้าใจฉัน คุยกับฉัน รับรู้ และอยู่กับฉันตลอด เพราะไม่มีใครรัก และต้องการฉัน ฉันก็น่าจะเลิกหวัง และหาในสิ่งที่ฉันต้องการ
มันคือความสุข ฉันสามารถ สนุก สุขกับมันได้ทุกเมื่อ
แต่ฉันมีเธอ มันก็สามารถแพ้ และฉันก็สามารถเอาชนะมันได้
เธอคือพลัง เธอทำให้ฉัน มั่นใจ เธอให้ความสุขได้มาก กว่ามัน
ขอบคุณมากที่รัก รักคุณมากๆ และเป็นห่วงคุณเสมอ อยากให้คุณ มีความสุขมากๆ และก็โชคดีมากๆด้วย
ฉันให้ความรักเธอได้ทั้งหมดที่ฉันมีนะ ขอให้เธอรู้ว่าตัวฉันอาจจะไม่มีค่าอะไรแต่ฉันมีความรักที่ฉันคิดว่ามันมีค่า และมีความหมายกับฉันมาก และฉันคิดว่าอยากจะมอบให้เธอคนเดียว และคนสุดท้ายด้วย ฉันขอแค่มีสิทธิ์เก็บเธอไว้ในฝันและในใจฉันก็พอนะ ฉันรัก ต้องการและอยากเดินเคียงข้างเธอเสมอ รักเธอมากนะ ไมเคิล สุดที่รักของฉัน
เธอมีความหมายมากกว่าใครๆ
พิม ดอกไม้ราตรี


ขอบคุณสำหรับทุกสิ่งทุกอย่าง เธอเป็นคนทำให้ฉันมีความสุขมากๆ
ไม่อยากให้เธอลำบากใจกับฉันอีกแล้ว ไม่ต้องการเรียกร้องหรือขออะไรอีกต่อไปแล้ว
ทุกสิ่งทุกอย่างที่ฉัน ทำให้เธอไม่ชอบ ทำให้เธอทุกข์ใจ ฉันต้องขอโทษเธอมากๆนะ เธอไม่อยู่ที่เมืองไทยเป็นเดือนๆฉันคงคิดถึงเธอมากๆเลย แต่ไม่ต้องห่วงนะ
ฉันจะดูแลห้องให้เธอเป็นอย่างดีเลย ฉันจะไม่พาใครเข้ามาในห้องเธอเด็ดขาด
ฉันสัญญา ฉันจะหัดอยู่คนเดียว กินคนเดียว ทำอะไรคนเดียวดูบ้างสักเดือน ก็คงจะดีนะ ฉันจะไม่ลืมคิดถึงเธอ และฉันก็อยากทำตัวดีๆให้เธอชื่นใจบ้าง ฉันจะเปลี่ยนตัวเองจากแสงไฟมาเป็นแสงสว่างของพระอาทิตย์ ลองเดินดูผู้คน เที่ยวชมสถานที่ ที่ไม่ใช่ แต่โรงแรมๆ ฉันก็อยากเปลี่ยนตัวเองใหม่มั้ง ฉันแก่ลงมากแล้ว ฉันต้องคิดถึงอนาคตข้างหน้าของฉันแล้ว ขอให้เธอโชคดี มีความสุขมากๆกับครอบครัวเธอนะ
ช่วงที่เธอไม่อยู่ฉัน จะพยายามหาลู่ทางช่วยเหลือตัวเองให้มากที่สุด รบกวนเธอมามากๆแล้ว ไม่อยากให้เธอต้องมานั่งแบกภาระกับฉัน ฉันจะต้องหาห้องเช่าเป็นของฉันเองให้ได้ ก่อนที่เธอจะกลับเมืองไทย ใช่ว่าฉันต้องการเลิกกันกับเธอนะ แต่คนเราก็ต้องอยากใช้เวลาส่วนตัวบ้าง ฉันกลัวเธอเบื่อฉันมาก ฉันกลัวเธอเลิกกันกับฉันด้วย ฉันคงหาห้องเช่าไม่ไกลจากเธอเท่าไรหรอก จะได้เดินไปเดินมาหากันได้
สะดวก รักเธอนะ ไม่อยากให้เธอคิดมาก ที่มีฉันอยู่ข้างกายเธอ
เมื่ออยู่ที่อารมณ์รักอย่าลืมหาเวลานิดหน่อยคิดถึงฉันนะ
ฉันจะนั่งคิดถึงเธอทุกวันดูท้องฟ้า ดูพระจันทร์ นั่งส่งใจไปให้ถึงอเมริกาเลยเอาวันละ1ชั่วโมงก็คงพอนะ 1ชั่วโมงจะคิดถึงแต่เธอคนเดียวเลย
จะรอเธอกลับ
รักเสมอ

M P Lurker
04-11-08, 02:14
Fortunately this Thai girl writes in a style not too complex for a weak Thai speaker like me to understand reasonably well. She speaks from the heart directly which helps the meaning to be clear. But I can read Thai script slowly so will finish it later on. Only need the dictionary for a few words like "โชกโชน" (chohk chohn) "hardship" for example.
Initially thought "chohk" was the word for "luck" spelled wrong.
Have to work now, unfortunately. But I have got the drift already so appeciate your feelings too.

Its a pity that highly emotional girls, have both good emotions and hot tempers. I have quit hot-tempered girls and chosen a rather "cool" girl now (most of the time).

-----------------------------------------
I have come back and finished it now.
Is the strength of these feelings mutual?
Lopsided or unbalanced relationships usually seem to be some sort of problem.
So what is to be your destiny? Are you to escape or to return?

Animby
04-11-08, 15:32
If you indeed want dumb and helpless, this is the place to look. The country has an over-abundance of women who fit that description.

Just be careful of the poor, dumb and helpless little things. They'll own you before the week is out.

Animby
04-11-08, 15:41
My GF has asked me if I ever did in the past. I've flat-out said 'no' because I know she'd dump me in a heartbeat, if I ever admitted it.

Oh, yes, OTH. I have been asked by the GF, by her sister, by her mother and even with a nudge, nudge, wink, wink attitude by her brother. I maintain my innocence. I stretch the truth a bit about how long ago my wife died and then claim the GF is my first attachment since then. I suspect even the knowledge of a happy ending at a massage parlor would be the death knell. She only knows about the twice monthly visits to a reputable spa. Which, by the way, are a vast improvement over most of the massages you'd get, anyway, hand jobs not withstanding.

Ozirob
04-12-08, 13:04
Just back from Bangkok, sitting in Changi. Reflecting on my time there. If you look to past posts, you will get a feel for how i think operate: not into chasing endless different pussy, tired of the dud ones. I've come to enjoy the "devil i know" more.

The girl i have been visiting now for some years is a working girl, no pretending or false expectations. However, i stay in her "condo" whenever i am in Bangkok (every 6 weeks for a week or so), and have visited family up in the country a couple of times now.

This post is about the "visit family in the country" thing. I am very relaxed about everything. I am working on the basis that i know she is a working girl, and she knows i am married with deep family and business roots (as in tree) at home. However, she and her family treat me like family, organised a serious party to celebrate my birthday, at which the whole village is present including political strength. (about 50 people).

I find the whole thing fascinating, but wondering what all those people make of me and the girl? I do wear a wedding band so that should signal something clearly enough? Or is everyone just pragmatic, understanding that this is reality and nessessary for money to keep flowing from one of the village daughters? Everyone seems to be accepting, and pretty well the whole senior part of the community were involved in this thing where they each put strings around my wrist, and the girls wrist, us kneeling in front of them. Almost felt like a marriage ceremony - certainly made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck!

The girl is open with me, her home is open to me, and all associated with that: her mail, email, bills, bank statements etc.

So what is going on that i don't see?

Ozirob.

Member #2041
04-12-08, 16:48
Ozirob, congratulations on your new Thai wife!

Old Thai Hand
04-12-08, 16:49
So what is going on that i don't see?

Hopeful expectation.

She's poor. She's sold her soul and therefore, has little real hope within the culture. Basically, her life is fucked and she knows it. You're a Farang with money. Thais are very out of sight, out of mind - meaning your wife's not around. You are. It's not beyond the realm of possibility (in her mind) that you would keep her as a Gig or something else on the side, and help her family and the immediate world. Thais aren't pragmatic. They're lazy dreamers who look for easy (and short-term) solutions to complex problems. Don't get too sucked in by the warmth and the inclusion. Enjoy it for what it is. But, stay detached and expect at some point or other to be asked for money.

NicFrenchy
04-12-08, 17:28
Thais aren't pragmatic. They're lazy dreamers who look for easy (and short-term) solutions to complex problems.

Absolutely.

Terry Terrier
04-14-08, 00:43
Ozirob

Cut through OTH's bizarre and extreme black-and-white take on all things Thai, and you will find lots of good info and advice in his posts. It's unlikely that you are your TG's 'last chance saloon'. There are plenty of Thai guys, mostly (but not exclusively) lowlives, who are attracted to bargirls. But I think that what OTH is trying to say is that you are perceived as a better option, given her current circumstances, by your girl and her family.

Btw, 2041 was joking. There were no monks present at that relationship affirmation party in your GF's village. There weren't any, right?.....were there:D?

Old Thai Hand
04-14-08, 04:00
cut through oth's bizarre and extreme black-and-white take on all things thai

i don't think my take is all that bizarre or b&w. years of close up and personal experience has given me a rather in-depth knowledge of how these people think and operate. i'm pretty confident that i'm most often correct in my assessments.

my assertion that her life is fucked may seem extreme. but, the prospect of maybe attracting the type of lowlife thai guy, to which you refer, who will surely bring nothing to the relationship but continued poverty and heartache means that in reality, such a girl has zero prospects unless she can snag some hapless farang who doesn't understand the culture.

i see these types of guys every day and can feel nothing but pity for them. by marrying the working girl, they may artificially elevate her status among her peers and within her community. but, at the same time, they lower their own and are largely held in contempt by the vast majority of the population.

it's hard enough for farang living here, without adding insult to injury by getting involved with what is considered a social pariah.

Member #2041
04-14-08, 04:44
Btw, 2041 was joking. There were no monks present at that relationship affirmation party in your GF's village. There weren't any, right?.....were there:D?
Shhhhhh! Don't spoil the fun.

Ozirob
04-14-08, 14:48
Don't worry guys, my eyes are open, and my head is around the situation. I just was interested to have some observations and different perspectives. And in a general sense, they all are in line with my thoughts.

I will keep you posted! :-) but don't wait for an invitation to a wedding, there won't be one...


Thanks for the contributions!
Ozirob

B Cowey
04-14-08, 23:01
Is it not the case that some village girls will go down the working girl route in there younger years in persute of baht to do there bit to support family but later go back and regain a degree of respectability in the village scene, marry a thai guy and have kids. I certainly know a few with checkered pasts that have come good. With then the working game was a means to an end. And not the coruptable influence we europeans tend to classify it as. Just my 2 cents worth.

NicFrenchy
04-16-08, 03:20
Every LOS Rookie should read this.

Not sure if this is a Prank or not but it looks genuine to me and I am sure this man has a lot of brothers out there to whom something similar happened.

http://www.phenchaloemphol.com/

Don't get me wrong, it is not always like this, sometimes, it is the guy who scams the girl (Ask Giotto, I am sure he has a few stories from his Girls).

Terry Terrier
04-16-08, 03:38
Is it not the case that some village girls will go down the working girl route in there younger years in persute of baht to do there bit to support family but later go back and regain a degree of respectability in the village scene, marry a thai guy and have kids. I certainly know a few with checkered pasts that have come good. With then the working game was a means to an end. And not the coruptable influence we europeans tend to classify it as. Just my 2 cents worth.

Yorkie,

There are cliches that need to be adhered to on ISG: Golden rule no.1 is that there are no happy endings in the scenarios that you suggest. Please stop misleading the forum forthwith.

NicFrenchy
04-16-08, 03:41
Yorkie,

Golden rule no.1 is that there are no happy endings in the scenarios that you suggest. Please stop misleading the forum forthwith.

(surprised) you mean we can't play the "white Knights" anymore? LOL

M P Lurker
04-16-08, 05:29
i don't think my take is all that bizarre or b&w. years of close up and personal experience has given me a rather in-depth knowledge of how these people think and operate. i'm pretty confident that i'm most often correct in my assessments.

my assertion that her life is fucked may seem extreme. but, the prospect of maybe attracting the type of lowlife thai guy, to which you refer, who will surely bring nothing to the relationship but continued poverty and heartache means that in reality, such a girl has zero prospects unless she can snag some hapless farang who doesn't understand the culture.

i see these types of guys every day and can feel nothing but pity for them. by marrying the working girl, they may artificially elevate her status among her peers and within her community. but, at the same time, they lower their own and are largely held in contempt by the vast majority of the population.

it's hard enough for farang living here, without adding insult to injury by getting involved with what is considered a social pariah.

my thai gf would not dream of taking me back to her village, due to social stigma attached. i therefore had to be excluded from her brother's wedding. obviously she does not want to appear to be a p4p girl.

probably people assume she is the secret 2nd wife of some thai man. commonplace in thailand and probably with much less stigma than being with a farang.

on the other hand she is very worried about severe social problems that i will experience if i should take her back home to australia.
obviously there is some social stigma in australia but it is not as severe as in thailand.

my workmates and friends already know i have been associating with thai girl(s) (more than one) for years.

she cannot easily comprenhend that i can put up with what ever others might think of me in australia, if i have a gf from thailand that is many years younger than me.

B Cowey
04-16-08, 08:28
Yorkie,

There are cliches that need to be adhered to on ISG: Golden rule no.1 is that there are no happy endings in the scenarios that you suggest. Please stop misleading the forum forthwith.Fortunately I have the benifit of knowing you are wrong TT.

Old Thai Hand
04-16-08, 11:44
My Thai GF would not dream of taking me back to her village, due to social stigma attached. I therefore had to be excluded from her brother's wedding. Obviously she does not want to appear to be a P4P girl.

Probably people assume she is the secret 2nd wife of some Thai man. Commonplace in Thailand and probably with much less stigma than being with a Farang.

On the other hand she is very worried about severe social problems that I will experience if I should take her back home to Australia.
Obviously there is some social stigma in Australia but it is not as severe as in Thailand.

My workmates and friends already know I have been associating with Thai girl(s) (more than one) for years.

She cannot easily comprenhend that I can put up with what ever others might think of me in Australia, if I have a GF from Thailand that is many years younger than me.

My situation is similar, in that my GF doesn't want to take me home either because some people in her hometown gossip about her being a BG because she's with a Farang. This is only gossip born of jealousy because many of the girls there actually ask her to help them find a Farang, as well. They know in fact she isn't a BG, and wouldn't need to be as she comes from an excellent family and is reasonaly educated. Other people try to get money out of her because they assume she's rich because she's with me. Her family are the leading family in town because her father is a provincial education official and her brothers are all mid-rank cops, one being in the Thai FBI. Her reasons for not wanting me to go to her town are not because people will think she's in P4P, but because she knows that they will all try to tap me for money. She says that many of the people in her town are low-life scum and she doesn't want to subject me to them. Her family know about me and are actually suprisingly pleased she's with me, because they are impressed with where I work (typical of Thais to be impressed with meaningless status) and more importantly, how I've treated their daughter. I'm about to finally meet her father, who is coming to BKK to see me. Her brother is also getting married, BTW. But, she doesn't want me to go to her town for the wedding, because of the reasons I've stated - the villagers will try to suckewr me into paying for this, that and the other thing.

I am planning on taking her to Canada and she's not concernedd about it at all. I'm sure the age difference (23 and 56) will raise eyebrows. But, we've been together for 2 years and my family are totally fine with it. For one thing, she's not the first young TG I've taken to Canada and I had a history of dating younger women, even before I came to Thailand - my last GF in Canada was 22 when I was 44. Coming from a large city helps if you take a much younger TG back home with you. I can't imagine what it would be like, if I came from a small town - probably a similar scenario to what one would face going upcountry to a TG's village.

Old Thai Hand
04-16-08, 11:53
Every LOS Rookie should read this.

Not sure if this is a Prank or not but it looks genuine to me and I am sure this man has a lot of brothers out there to whom something similar happened.

http://www.phenchaloemphol.com/

Don't get me wrong, it is not always like this, sometimes, it is the guy who scams the girl (Ask Giotto, I am sure he has a few stories from his Girls).

It seems completely genuine. But, you just have to look at this tattooed skank (ugly as sin, as well) and her family to know they're all bad news. It's such a cliche. The guy was as naiive as one could possibly be and even after it went bad, quite quickly in fact, he still hung in there. What an idiot.

However, I think his declarative statement about all people in Isaan being liars and bad (not to mention poor) just shows his limited knowledge and experience. He got what he deserved. Caveat emptor!

Arizonan
04-16-08, 16:34
Every LOS Rookie should read this.

Not sure if this is a Prank or not but it looks genuine to me and I am sure this man has a lot of brothers out there to whom something similar happened.

http://www.phenchaloemphol.com/

Don't get me wrong, it is not always like this, sometimes, it is the guy who scams the girl (Ask Giotto, I am sure he has a few stories from his Girls).Hello Everyone. I went and read this sob story about how this guy got screwed, he sure is bitter. But his expectations were way too high, especially when a TG is concerned. He fell in love with her on the 2nd day! He didn't even know the girl, and yet he fell head over heels with in love with her after 24 hours? C'mon.

If you really want to meet a nice Thai Girl, here's my advice: Stay the hell out of the 1am NANA parking lot fiasco, the NEP, or Soi Cowboy. You will NEVER find your soulmate in any of those places. When I am in Thailand, I stay far away from the Soi Cowboy scene, and the NEP scene. Of course, I can't say that I have never cruised around the Nana Hotel at 1am, but I wasn't looking for my soulmate, but rather just a nice looking piece of ass for the evening.

The best TG's are the ones that haven't been spoiled by the above. Meet a professional girl who has a college degree, who's got more going for her than just a killer face and nice body, who doesn't have ANY baggage (the poor village scenario, the sick mother, a sick father, the sister with two kids who can't make ends meet). The girl you want to meet and JUST MAYBE have half a chance with has a 8 to 5 job, and comes from a middle-class kind of family.

On my way back to the states, I met this TG who was travelling to the east coast to visit her friend for a few months. She was well read, had a master degree from a US midwestern university, spoke great English, and she was really easy on the eyes (half of them are!). We flew from BKK to Incheon, and had a great time talking, and exchanged phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and we'll see how that goes. The only bad thing is, she's 20 years younger than me.

Visitors and newbies going to Thailand for the first time, remember this: you're living a dream. In Thailand, the farang becomes the hunted one for many girls. For you, it's like fishing. In a barrel. But buyer beware.

Old Thai Hand
04-17-08, 00:53
The girl you want to meet and JUST MAYBE have half a chance with has a 8 to 5 job, and comes from a middle-class kind of family.

On my way back to the states, I met this TG who was travelling to the east coast to visit her friend for a few months. She was well read, had a master degree from a US midwestern university, spoke great English, and she was really easy on the eyes (half of them are!). We flew from BKK to Incheon, and had a great time talking, and exchanged phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and we'll see how that goes. The only bad thing is, she's 20 years younger than me.

If you're a visitor, your chances are next to zero to meet the kind of girl you describe. You were lucky. That's all. But, generally, unless you live and work here, the chances are slim in finding an educated (especially western-educated), middle-class TG. I have what you describe (not western-educated, though), who's actually 33 years younger than me. But, I've been here a long time and went through a lot of girls before finding her.

But, good luck with your girl. Perhaps, it might work out because at least she's been to the States and can get a visa.

Arizonan
04-17-08, 01:41
If you're a visitor, your chances are next to zero to meet the kind of girl you describe. You were lucky. That's all. But, generally, unless you live and work here, the chances are slim in finding an educated (especially western-educated), middle-class TG. I have what you describe (not western-educated, though), who's actually 33 years younger than me. But, I've been here a long time and went through a lot of girls before finding her.

But, good luck with your girl. Perhaps, it might work out because at least she's been to the States and can get a visa.Hello Old Thai Hand.

She's not my girl, and I doubt anything will come of it. However, I've been to Thailand enough to know that what you say is true. Some guys, despite the warnings of those with good intentions, have to find out themselves, and I'm sure you'll agree with that.

I fell in love with a beautiful Thai girl many years ago, thought it would work out. She was bright, college-educated, never did the bar thing. Met her at a coffee shop in MBK of all places. But the visa thing with the states just frazzled both of us, and she lost patience with the process. She's a faded memory now, but I still think of her fondly now and then.

For now, I'll just visit Thailand when I can. That's enough for me!

Zarnon
04-17-08, 03:21
Ehh who knows? Sure a lot of websites this guy's promoting. It could be the slickest advert yet.

But the scenario is common. Guy's cannot say they're not responsible when they behave like this. This guy ignored every freaking sign/signal and STILL wanted to take his skanker back (did anyone notice how much GOLD was dripping off that 'ho?).

This isn't love; it's dependency.

You can't exactly blame the thieves when you hold out your wallet and wear a sign saying "Please Rob Me".

I have had my own learning experiences. Thank God I've cut them off long before this guy did.

Zarnon
04-17-08, 03:36
If you're a visitor, your chances are next to zero to meet the kind of girl you describe.

Then I got extreemly lucky the last time I was in BKK. :)

I have dated Thai women before but it seemed this time more women were interested. I went out on two dates last time I was there and was given phone numbers (never called) from two others. These always came up from otherwise innocuous conversations (in Thai) about themselves, what I was doing, how I learned Thai, etc. I enjoy meeting/talking with people so it's natural when meeting single women. My Thai isn't perfect but it seems as long as you're polite and comport yourself well it doesn't matter.

They weren't all middle class. But none were bargirls. I never scored with any of them, but then I didn't feel like trying to pursue a relationship and I didn't want to get mired in it just to get laid.

Thai women can be incredibly aggressive. You don't have to be superstud to get this attention but you DEFINITELY don't want to be Joe Short Pants Wearing Tourist Lech.

You can get grandma asking if you have a wife and wanting to fix you up. I've had 'regular' women call my hotel room, ask me out with friends, come over etc.

Here's where the disconnect is; Guy comes to Thailand. Enjoys the 'Point And Click' nightlife and extrapolates that to everywhere else in Thailand. Bzzt! Wrong answer. It amazes my how even some ex-pats living here for years cannot turn off the beer bar behavior when they're in more respectable company.


On my way back to the states, I met this TG who was travelling to the east coast to visit her friend for a few months. She was well read, had a master degree from a US midwestern university, spoke great English, and she was really easy on the eyes (half of them are!). We flew from BKK to Incheon, and had a great time talking, and exchanged phone numbers, e-mail addresses, and we'll see how that goes. The only bad thing is, she's 20 years younger than me.

Very cool. I'm in the 4th month of dating a Vietnamese gal 15 years younger than me I met locally. She has a business degree from Saigon and a bachelors in Math from a University in my town so it's not impossible to do it stateside.

It's not perfect but the sex is incredible. The age difference hasn't been a big issue among us (my keeping a return trip ticket to Thailand has!).

It's just a rule of mine , but anything over 2 hours driving classifies as a 'long distance' relationship, although if I met someone on a plane like you did I'd probably try to squeeze a weekend or two out of it. Heh heh.

Zarnon
04-17-08, 04:07
There are cliches that need to be adhered to on ISG: Golden rule no.1 is that there are no happy endings in the scenarios that you suggest. Please stop misleading the forum forthwith.

It's not a cliche, it's a truism.

Marrying a bargilr is like a guy who fell out of a plane without a parachute who survived. It can happen, but no one's suggesting you try it.

I know of one guy of all who married a bar girl who's still happily married. He's a Kiwi who used to own a bar on Walking st. with a well known forum. If you know of whom I speak she's a great lady.

BUT, she's the only one I know of. Marrying a bargirl is Kryptonite to your happy ending in life.

NicFrenchy
04-17-08, 04:32
Thai women can be incredibly aggressive. You don't have to be superstud to get this attention but you DEFINITELY don't want to be Joe Short Pants Wearing Tourist Lech.


Here in Thailand, relationships are short lived and fragile. The trend is to have several opportunities rotating into play.

Generally, if a girl has several guys on the string, they rotate between their guys to keep them all on the the line and active. She may or may not be sleeping with more than one, but she'll be meeting with and cultivating those other relationships just in case the primary one goes sour.

Zarnon
04-17-08, 15:14
Here in Thailand, relationships are short lived and fragile. The trend is to have several opportunities rotating into play.

Seems that way doesn't it? Do you think it's more apt to happen in Thai-foreigner relationships? May-December ones? Rich-poor?

Everyone I know over there except for two guys has been divorced, cheated on, cheats on, has multiple 'tilacs' etc. It seems they're usually accumulating hookers, quasi-hookers and women working in stores/stalls, etc.

A couple trips ago, I went to dinner with a buddy who was dating a bitchy yet respectable Univ. gal. We had a some tag-alongs who were your typical 'gotta rehash each paid for conquest the night before' guys. Some of them lived there yet seemed so entrenched in the farang ghetto they couldn't tell the difference.

Old Thai Hand
04-17-08, 15:17
Here in Thailand, relationships are short lived and fragile. The trend is to have several opportunities rotating into play.

Generally, if a girl has several guys on the string, they rotate between their guys to keep them all on the the line and active. She may or may not be sleeping with more than one, but she'll be meeting with and cultivating those other relationships just in case the primary one goes sour.

This is a little cynical and over-generalized. It's true in some cases and does depend a lot on the girl's background. But, TGs are usually very loyal and relationships can last as long as anywhere else, in my experience.

One does have to get off the well-worn path that most Farang follow, and find a respectable girl - not always an easy thing for a non-Thai to be able to figure out the difference.

Retired Army
04-17-08, 16:49
Here in Thailand, relationships are short lived and fragile. The trend is to have several opportunities rotating into play.

Generally, if a girl has several guys on the string, they rotate between their guys to keep them all on the the line and active. She may or may not be sleeping with more than one, but she'll be meeting with and cultivating those other relationships just in case the primary one goes sour.

You are absolutely correct if you date "bar girls"; but, if you date respectible Thai you will find the exact opposite of what you describe.

Zarnon
04-18-08, 15:19
You are absolutely correct if you date "bar girls"; but, if you date respectible Thai you will find the exact opposite of what you describe.

I was with a GTG for three years (two in the states) and she was very good to me.

OTOH I've been off the 'beaten path' to bars where Thai women pay the men for dancing and sex. I'm not sure how many are 'respectable' but they didn't look tatooed and Isaanish to me. I'm sure it's not the 'norm' but it's not all black and white, you think?

Thai songs deal with women's infidelity the same way we do over here ('Taan Fai Gow'). Why would they be popular unless they somehow mirrored part of Thai society?

At the same time I think my chances of meeting someone faithful are better in Thailand. I'd definitely date/marry a GTG than someone over here. The ones I've been with have been very nice (and stubborn!), took care of me well and were probably better than I deserved. When I look back on it I was the one playing around. Argh.

I knew two guys there truly outside the 'scene'. One was married to a very nice woman and she stood by and supported him through some tough times (even went to JKT with him). At the same time he gave up being a player.

And I agree getting off the beaten path is important. I have been guilty of going, mongering, leaving, although that's changed the last few years. I've done some volunteer work and may do so again. It's one way to start long-lasting friendships with 'regular' Thai people and by extension, women.

Old Thai Hand
04-18-08, 15:51
Thai songs deal with women's infidelity the same way we do over here ('Taan Fai Gow'). Why would they be popular unless they somehow mirrored part of Thai society?

"Taan Fai Gow" isn't about infidelity. "Taan Fai Gow" (basically trying to start a fire with burnt coal) is an idiom used to refer to people who try to 'rekindle' a romance with an ex-GF/BF.

Zarnon
04-18-08, 18:16
"Taan Fai Gow" isn't about infidelity. "Taan Fai Gow" (basically trying to start a fire with burnt coal) is an idiom used to refer to people who try to 'rekindle' a romance with an ex-GF/BF.

That is very cool to know. I didn't know that.

I'm referencing it from the song 'Taan Fai Gow' by Bird which dealt with this 'rekindling' but at the expense of another guy. It explicitly deals with a lying, cheating Thai girl promising her love to a guy meanwhile slipping off and seeing her ex. Over and fuckin' over again. In the end her boyfriend chucks the engagement ring.

Bird has a ton of songs dealing with him getting burned by a girl (which is ironic since he's gay).

Sunyaa Muuh Sanyaa? Very popular song by Thai Thinawut about a guy who works three years in the boonies to make enough money for Sinsot, only to find out the gal had lied to him when he gets back.

I want to ask my ex because she can provide a lot longer list than I could. We had this discussion once. It was really interesting.

I'm not saying these are Thailand or Thai people but the themes they ecompass are the same ones foreigners deal with; from love to betrayal. Music, at least in part, is a reflection of its society otherwise it woudn't resonate with it.

Old Thai Hand
04-19-08, 03:02
Sunyaa Muuh Sanyaa? Very popular song by Thai Thinawut about a guy who works three years in the boonies to make enough money for Sinsot, only to find out the gal had lied to him when he gets back.

Ya, I know this song quite well. At the risk of raising some flames, I think there are more incidents of infidelity among the rural poor, especially in Isaan, largely because of five factors. Firstly, they don't have a lot to do, but fuck around when planting season is finished. Secondly, marriages are mostly ceremonial, not legal so that both parties don't feel as much a sense of committment and can just leave the marriage at any time. Thirdly, due to economics, they often have to spend time away from each other, principally in BKK, to earn money and therefore often find someone else. Fourthly, the family unit in rural Isaan is often not very stable and therefore provides a poor role model. And lastly, the culture doesn't possess that healthy dose of Judeao-Christian, Victorian guilt that keeps us less likely to stray in Western culture. Further to that, at least for the men, multiple partners is a cultural norm, what with the tradition of the Mia Noi. Now, with a bit more equality, and external influences from media (just watch Thai TV, for Gawd's sake) and women especially upcountry are also getting Gigs on the side, as well. My sense of rural Isaan culture, as it relates to this issue is that relationships tend to be far more fluid (surprisingly) than those in the city among the better educated classes.

At least, that's my experience. I've had Thai women cheat on me in the past and they were always from Isaan and always rural poor, which is one of the many reasons I don't associate with that type of TG, anymore. My current GF is also from Isaan, but is not a farm-girl, is better educated and middle class and seems to be incredibly loyal to me. I think it has a lot to do with her family, which are very stable and have instilled in her very strong values.

In the end, it comes down to the quality of the girl, her background and upbringing.

M P Lurker
04-19-08, 13:06
<cut>
Sunyaa Muuh Sanyaa? Very popular song by Thai Thinawut about a guy who works three years in the boonies to make enough money for Sinsot, only to find out the gal had lied to him when he gets back.

I want to ask my ex because she can provide a lot longer list than I could. We had this discussion once. It was really interesting.

I'm not saying these are Thailand or Thai people but the themes they ecompass are the same ones foreigners deal with; from love to betrayal. Music, at least in part, is a reflection of its society otherwise it woudn't resonate with it.
Both "Bird" Thongchai and Thai Thanawut are very popular singers of course. Therefore we can find their stuff on the internet. I have also bought CDs from both of them previously.

Here is the song from Thai Thanawut on UTube
"Sanyaa Meua Sanyaa":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iTY_abxyA&feature=related

Also Khon Suay Jai Dam (Beautiful Girl - Black Heart):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfKrkAMzlzY

Another good one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4rh7GCaN8s&feature=related

And now for the Lyrics of "Old Flame" or (Coals of an Old Fire still burning) Thaan Fai Gao (the one by Bird):
http://www.birdthongchai.com/lyric/lyric_thaanfaigao.htm
He (the singer) thinks she is still pining for her old flame
(which is I guess mental infidelity).
Is physical infidelity worse than mental?
Of course not. Mongers fuck around all the time.
It doesn't mean we are in love with those we play up with.

NicFrenchy
04-20-08, 17:57
A Great video for the newbies or for the ones that look to the internet for finding your loved one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wGBl2eoz_4&feature=related

You can also look at this one, another Emmy award winner! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV0y53yhQFo&feature=related

Lexb
04-20-08, 20:00
This video was especially painful for me to watch as I can empathize with "Phil" completely because of my two failed marital relationships with foreign women(not Thai, however) I have experienced in my past life!

One of these relationships mirrored "Phils" situation and the other was different as it was played out in the native country of my former spouse.

I believe my situations, however, were more painfully experienced as the women were of my race(Caucasian) and religious(Judeo/Christian) background so you would expect that, at least, to work in my favor-it didn't!

At least "Phil" can attribute some of the reason(s), whether true or not, his marital relationship failed was because of cultural, racial and religious(and/or) differences as well as the all the inherent problems of "importing" a women(either spouse or girlfriend) into an different/unfamiliar culture.

I am a firm believer, based on a multitude of past life's experiences, that the emotional make-up of women, regarding their attraction for or their non-attraction for certain men(or boys/girls/women, if you will) is constant and stays the same throughout their lives(i.e. the "attraction genes" are the same from when they were born until when they die and there is only a very slight chance that age/life's situation will change them).

Trying to "read between the lines" in "Phil's" situation is pretty mundane as IMO, I would guess it "looks like what it is"; a middle-aged man, not very "good looking"(IMO), frustrated and miserable being alone and(possibly) a "player" in the local dating scene(bars, singles dances, dating services, internet match sites, etc.) with older, unattractive, demanding, moody, undependable, unpredictable, materialistic and make you "earn" sexual favors(who exhibit any or all of these characteristics) women.

IMO, "Phil" saw the oportunity to marry Anchana which would be a "lifetime ticket" to a women who was much younger, more attractive, more sexually active/desirable, and, if you will, a more obedient caretaker who he NEVER would have to worry about and who would "ALWAYS be there for him, for better or worse".

He, and uncountable other "Phils", violated what, IMHO, I believe to be Rule #1 for understanding a woman's attraction "gene":

"A women is going to "like"(i.e. be attracted to) the boy/man(or, in some cases, the girl/woman) she is going to "like". Any attempt to "make" her like you by any means is "buying" her time and is a complete waist of yours."

Animby
04-22-08, 04:41
Sometimes I just think some of the people on this forum are being crazy!
We all agree if you want a good, long term relationship, your chances are better of the girl is not a BG. We say meet a nice middle class or professional woman. Then others say, well, that's so hard to do!

Nonsense. Okay, if you're a coal miner in Australia, chances are you won't find a lady cardiologist to be your paramour. Would you find one at home? If you raise rattlesnakes for religions in West Vriginia, chances are you are not going to meet and seetle down with a beautiful Buddhist investment banker.

If you raise rattlesnakes, go hang out at the Pasteur Institute in Bangkok and discuss your career with the people who work there. If you're a coal miner ... well, maybe you should just go back to Oz. Thais are very class concious. They are very unlikely to socialize with someone below their class.

Another thing, if you do meet that nice middle class or professional woman (and I do NOT mean women of the OLDEST profession) you do yourself no good to mention how nice they are after all the *****s you've been with. You'd better be telling them you've never been to Soi Cowboy. I told my lady friend that when I first got to Bangkok I walked over to Nana Plaza just to see what I'd read about. Told her how it digusted me to see all those tattooed skanks and I never went back. That way, if I slip and mention something, I'm covered.

I just don't understand the guys who pick up a bar girl, screw her six ways to Sunday then expect her to change her life and be the ideal GF. Would you go to Times Square, pick up a hooker and fall in love?

So, my advice:
1) have reasonable expectations - hang out at places in which you are part of the social or educational class
2) by the way, a BG probably won't care if you're 30 years older than her - other ladies in Thailand may be tolerant of a few years but don't expect miracles
3) if you just gotta get laid tonight, go to a bar or massage parlor - professional ladies realize having a farang in their life will seriously complicate thier lives - be prepared for a courtship period
4) if you go to a P4P lady, use a condom - you won't make any points with your middle class paramour if you drop a case of clap in her lap
5) be prepare to spend time talking, getting the lady to see you have things in common, that you can be interesting and fun to be with
6) when you finally get a "decent" girl to go out with you, think 1950s - bring flowers, candy, little gifts - save jewelry for later
7) the best way is to meet her brother first - IMHO - I knew my current lady's brother professionally for a couple of months and then accidentally met his sister - he liked and trusted me so it was a short and quick path into her confidence
8) never - ever - mention you've been with a hooker - not to her and not to her brother
9) learn some Thai - a few words will go a long way - especially when you meet her family; then keep learning but don't expect her to be your teacher, you khii-niao son-of-a-*****
10) remember the very many basic differences in your cultures, the way you see and react to things - be calm, accepting and flexible: chances are she will
11) Don't post on ISG if your lady can look over your shoulder...

Oh, damn. I know there are more basic rules but I can't seem to think of any right now. Hey guys, wanna help me expand this list?

Old Thai Hand
04-22-08, 12:06
2) by the way, a BG probably won't care if you're 30 years older than her - other ladies in Thailand may be tolerant of a few years but don't expect miracles

I agree with everything you say except this one. Age differences are still part of the culture. The most famous example of a May-December romance is Pui (former Miss Thailand/Miss Universe) who at 36 married a 76 y.o. (multi-millionaire) lawyer from NY. I don't think it was the money, though as she's also quite well-off.

I know numerous older Farang like myself who are with regular, middle-class TGs who are much younger. My GF as I've mentioned several times is 23 and I'm 56. She's not after money. She come from a solid, middle-class family (her father is a retired govt. minister and is quite comfortable). She may have a "Daddy" fixation, perhaps. But, whatever, it works for me.

Opebo
04-22-08, 20:16
...I don't think it was the money, though as she's also quite well-off...

Of course it is the money. No one seeks a rich partner more than a rich woman - the poor woman is satisfied with any fellow with some money, but the rich woman must find a man richer than herself. This is the requirement in any culture, western or thai.

But as for all the recommendations from Animby, well I have dated a couple of middle class educated Thai girls and I didn't lie or pretend or give gifts. I was just myself as I would be with, for example, the college girls I dated back home. Everything went fine. And I certainly didn't pretend that I didn't go to hookers - for a farang in Thailand to pretend so is probably the ultimate insult to a girl's intelligence.

Lexb
04-22-08, 23:12
Being in Bangkok as a farang for any amount of time and telling any but the most ignorant of a Thai woman that you have NEVER been with a hooker and expecting her to believe it is the ULTIMATE of "fooling yourself".LOL

NicFrenchy
04-23-08, 00:46
And I certainly didn't pretend that I didn't go to hookers - for a farang in Thailand to pretend so is probably the ultimate insult to a girl's intelligence.

And you live in Thailand?
Of course the girls will suspect you went for it, but they would prefer you being in denial or keeping quiet about it.

Old Thai Hand
04-23-08, 03:01
And you live in Thailand?
Of course the girls will suspect you went for it, but they would prefer you being in denial or keeping quiet about it.

It's already pretty well established that Opebo knows nothing about Thai women, despite living here for while.

Raverboy
04-23-08, 03:10
Of course it is the money. No one seeks a rich partner more than a rich woman - the poor woman is satisfied with any fellow with some money, but the rich woman must find a man richer than herself. This is the requirement in any culture, western or thai...

Think you could lend me that book of requirements when you have a chance? Or maybe you havent published it yet.


...But as for all the recommendations from Animby, well I have dated a couple of middle class educated Thai girls and I didn't lie or pretend or give gifts. I was just myself as I would be with, for example, the college girls I dated back home. Everything went fine. And I certainly didn't pretend that I didn't go to hookers - for a farang in Thailand to pretend so is probably the ultimate insult to a girl's intelligence.

Were you as forthcoming with 'going to hookers' with the 'college girls you dated back home' as you were with the 'middle class educated Thai girls'?

Just curious.

Animby
04-23-08, 06:21
I know numerous older Farang like myself who are with regular, middle-class TGs who are much younger. My GF as I've mentioned several times is 23 and I'm 56.

You're right, of course. I, too, have a much younger ladyfriend (22 years difference). I think her acceptance of the age difference is due to her mother, at 19, marrying a man of 40-something. But I have perceived a growing shift in this attitude ... at least in city girls. Me? I like old-fashioned girls.

Opebo, yes the girl is going to assume we have been with hookers. Her family will assume so, too. Hell, her daddy's probably been with a P4P once or twice. I maintain, however, to admit it would eventually be the end of the relationship. The middle and upper classes are simply too cautious about their images. They fear if their daughters date farang, the girls will be perceived as *****s. If you admit to your whoring ways... well!

I maintain that even if her brother comes up to you and says he saw you in Patpong last night with topless hookers on either side of you and a third between your legs banging her head against the table, you look him directly in the eye and say, "Wasn't me! You know how I feel about *****s..."

Seydlitz
04-23-08, 16:07
I maintain that even if her brother comes up to you and says he saw you in Patpong last night with topless hookers on either side of you and a third between your legs banging her head against the table, you look him directly in the eye and say, "Wasn't me! You know how I feel about *****s..."

That’s it. Never admit to anything and deny everything in block. That’s the only way. But refrain to push your luck and ask the brother what he was doing in Patpong at such a late hour. And above all do not suggest that he might have been there selling sex himself, possibly his own body, which must have been the case as the only Thai people one can encounter in Patpong are those who try to sell you something.

Opebo
04-23-08, 21:08
It's already pretty well established that Opebo knows nothing about Thai women, despite living here for while.

OTH, your characterization is inaccurate. Of course I am aware that the ordinary false, dimwitted, moneygrubbing Thai woman who lives traditionally and in thrall to her family will expect the sort of duplicitousness you describe, even between the two of you. But I am more discerning in my dating practices, confining them to highly educated, open minded, and Westernized women. These are not quite so tiresome as the girls with whom you consort, who apparently expect gifts, lies, and so forth.

However I would never discuss anything honestly with a parent or relative of a girlfriend in either the US or Thailand - family is a horror, and the older generation everwhere is enmired in prejudice.

Old Thai Hand
04-24-08, 01:26
from The Nation...


THAI SOCIETY
The benefits of mixed marriages

Published on Apr 22, 2008

Thai women find security and comfort while farang men discover the joy that living with a large family can bring

Subhatra Bhumiprabhas

The Nation

The Cambodian Government recently suspended marriages between local women and foreigners after hearing from the International Organisation for Migration about the plight of women who migrate to their spouses' countries. But in Thailand, a migration of foreign or "farang" husbands to live in their Thai wives' rural villages in the northeastern provinces (Isaan region) has revealed other sides of cross-cultural marriages.

Most foreign husbands today know well that they are not married only to a Thai wife but also to her large family, senior anthropologist Suriya Smutkupt said. Suriya had talked to farang sons-in-law in Isaan province.

"I would like to hear the views of farang husbands as many studies already reflect Thai wives' perspectives of marrying foreigners," he said.

From 2005 to 2007, Suriya travelled intensively from his hometown in Chiang Mai province in the north to talk to farang husbands in villages in the northeastern provinces of Khon Kaen, Nakhon Rachasima (also known as Khorat) and Udon Thani.

"They told me their wives' large families gave them warmth that they could never find in their own countries," Suriya said.

Also, foreign sons-in-law of Isaan find all the conveniences of their home countries here and can stay connected to their friends and relatives via the Internet, he said.

Suriya spoke to 34 men from Austria, Belgium, England, France, Germany, Switzer-land, Sweden, the Netherlands and the United States.

The farangs were seasoned travellers to Asian countries. Most had previous marriages with farang women, Suriya said.

Their Isaan wives are of rural, low-income and low-education families and many couples met in tourist destinations such as Pattaya, he said.

Some husbands said they did not want to marry virgins or young women. They said they understood that Thai women become sex workers because their families are poor.

A farang husband asked his Thai wife to forget the past and begin a new life with him. However, some confessed that their perspective on Thai wives and their ex-wives was different, Suriya said.

"It's interesting that these farang husbands encouraged their wives to speak English in order to be a bridge between other women in their communities and their husbands' friends and relatives," he said.

David is from England and now lives in Chiang Mai province, which is his Thai wife's home.

"I am a 'farang' who married a honest, respectable village woman from a poor family. She has survived the hardships of being rejected by a Thai man, left to bring up a young daughter alone, and being seen as someone to be avoided in case she wants to borrow money," he said.

"We help local women in similar circumstances have a chance at a better life by finding them a good farang man," he said.

Last year, David and his wife offered translation and English classes to help women in their community communicate with foreign men.

The family has also started a website to introduce them to westerners looking for the kind of family life that respectable Thai ladies are renowned for.


...AND A LETTER IN RESPONSE...


Negative stereotypes plague mixed marriages

Re: "The benefits of mixed marriage", News, April 22.

In response to "The benefits of mixed marriage", I have to say that article gave me quite a chuckle. For starters, I find it laughable that somebody would start a Website to link poor Thai women with lonely farang men looking for a sweet little wife to settle down in the village with. Do men really think that if these women weren't cash-strapped they would be so willing to take them into their lives?

I suppose many don't even care and in the end it's a case of to each his own. But I'm tired of reading all these stories about so-called knights-in-shining-armour who swoop in and rescue poor prostitutes, almost like a scene out of "Pretty Woman". All these stories are doing is perpetrating the mixed-marriage stereotype.

I have many male farang friends with intelligent, career-oriented Thai girlfriends and wives whom they consider their equals, proving that not every mixed couple can be painted with the same brush. Sadly, they tell me that people often look down on them, assuming they picked their wife up in some beer bar in Pattaya.

As a farang woman, I already know the responses to this letter are going to dub me as "bitter". I promise you, no farang has ever left me for a Thai, so I have no axe to grind. In reality, I have lived in Thailand for six years, have many Thai female friends, am married to a wonderful Thai man and have two kids, so I'm well aware of the cultural and family dynamics. And personally, having your mother-in-law hovering around day and night isn't all that great, but maybe that's just me.

Cathy Patumsuwon
Bangkok



I actually agree with the letter written by this woman. Guys who marry hookers are lacking in something. If someone can't have a relationship with a normal woman, who is not a hooker, then there's something seriously wrong with him. I suspect that most guys who meet and "fall in love" with the slapper from Pattaya are incapable of forming a normal relationship with a normal Thai woman.

Member #3428
04-24-08, 03:19
I actually agree with the letter written by this woman. Guys who marry hookers are lacking in something. If someone can't have a relationship with a normal woman, who is not a hooker, then there's something seriously wrong with him. I suspect that most guys who meet and "fall in love" with the slapper from Pattaya are incapable of forming a normal relationship with a normal Thai woman.

You are such a romantic.....

Old Thai Hand
04-24-08, 08:05
You are such a romantic.....

The bucollic village life with their extended Isaan family, as extolled by the Farang in this week's news story, notwithstanding...

...one statistic from an earlier study from last year that puts to rest the illusion of success of the Farang/bargirl/village girl relationship/marriage is the fact that 400 divorce cases of mixed marriages were filed in Khon Kaen province alone in 2007. The main reasons cited for such an alarmingly high failure rate weres culture clashes and most importantly, that the girls in question all thought their "knight in shining armour" was considerably richer than he turned out to be.

Member #3428
04-24-08, 09:02
The bucollic village life with their extended Isaan family, as extolled by the Farang in this week's news story, notwithstanding....

OTH... I said you are such a romantic which by no means was a flame. The story, I thought was funny and I love hearing your negative comments and slams on P4P girls and stupid caveman farang invading your thailand, as well as your sparing with other members. Just like I love to hear from RA, Opebo, and many others. All of your folks inputs often make me laugh and remember events I've seen or done myself.

Of course I know many marriages between farang and P4P that are failed, I know many guys who donate huge dollars to bar girls and I've supported some before in the past too. However I walk in knowing what I'm getting into and I never put in more then I can affoard to lose because I will lose it. To me it's gambling but call me a white night that I like to try to let the girl and her family a better off then when I found her. Today I had "one" (of the many) million baht questions asked to me and I immediately thought about ISG folks and yourself slamming the heck out of me ;). Would I marry a thai girl even if she was P4P... sure I would... if I found the right one. But that hasn't happened yet nor do I think anyone will marry such an old ugly guy like myself. I'll meet you in BKK and have a drink and you can see what I'm talking about, I promise not to wear a Singha shirt and I promise to shave my knuckles... hahahaha.

So relax and chill... yes many folks dream of walking into LOS... finding a girl who can perform like a porn star who is 20 or 30 years younger and think everything will be a bed of roses. But they deserve to be taken for a ride IMHO and good for the girls if they can take a few for a ride. I personally enjoy hearing how a Issan farm girl can fleece a businessman from overseas.

I now claim that you are our boards Romantic Advisor... whenever anyone starts to feel even a little bit of liking for a lady in thai call OTH... he'll slap some sense into you.

Cheers Mate...

NicFrenchy
04-24-08, 10:14
So relax and chill... yes many folks dream of walking into LOS... finding a girl who can perform like a porn star who is 20 or 30 years younger and think everything will be a bed of roses. But they deserve to be taken for a ride IMHO and good for the girls if they can take a few for a ride. I personally enjoy hearing how a Issan farm girl can fleece a businessman from overseas.


I am not sure I would enjoy the fleece as much as you would, especially when the SOD is not a businessman but a poor old chap that was already taken for a ride (Married & Divorced) in his own country.

I know some guys arrive here and are very naive, fragile and just looking to revamp their self esteem/Ego. I can imagine the pain the guy would have to go through after the first divorce, having to give away half of what he worked for... now imagine him coming to Thailand looking for the Love his wife refused to give him for the last couple years, finding a lady 30 years younger than him who makes him feel like a million bucks for a while only to screw him just like the first wife did. While it might be amusing, I am feeling sorry for that John Doe and, god knows he has a lot of Brothers here in Thailand.

Of course, the above is only from the man's point of view, if you look at it with the Issan Farmer Girl's eyes, what do you see? A sweet looking guy looking for love, the perfect pigeon that will easily give away his money if told he is superman and well taken care of in bed. Issan farm girl knows which of the 2 brains to stroke, and it certainly isn't the one doing the thinking ;)

Old Thai Hand
04-24-08, 10:28
I now claim that you are our boards Romantic Advisor... whenever anyone starts to feel even a little bit of liking for a lady in thai call OTH... he'll slap some sense into you. Cheers Mate...

I didn't think it was a flame, BTW. There's nothing wrong with feeling romantic about a Thai woman. But, just pick the right type of woman. It's simple logic. I would bet that none of the guys who do so here would ever think to marry a hooker in their home country. So, even after all my years here, I am still stunned every time I see some hapless geezer with his hooker farm wife in tow. Each to his own, I guess. But, other than sex, which will get pretty same same, even with a former pro, what can there possibly be in it for him? Certainly, there's zero intellectual stimulii - afterall, her idea of critical thought is whether to have 'poo' with her 'pra ra' in her som tam tonight for dinner. These girls are as dumb as posts. Mind you, I have seen some pretty dumb and dumber Farang with these girls. So, maybe it's a level playing field intellectually speaking.

Run Mann
04-24-08, 12:58
These girls are as dumb as posts. Mind you, I have seen some pretty dumb and dumber Farang with these girls. So, maybe it's a level playing field intellectually speaking.

Someone suggested a while ago that you have been hurt by an Issan BG which is why you direct so much vitriol and hatred towards them and boy you sure do add a lot of credence to that thought. The idea that you can devote so much energy and countless hours with post after post bashing Issan (Brown-skinned) hookers (deny it as I'm sure you will but you have enough post here that says otherwise) says that your interest in this subject is far more than that of a neutral observer. Professor, you are obsessed with these people, but this board seems to be your prescription for mental relief so keep bashing them. I wonder how many people are really listening to you and who are you deterring or reaching with your repeated theme? I suspect no one is listening and I will pass on commenting on the intellect of the normal girls.

The point about Thai/Falang divorce rates is so misleading because its not as if the divorce rates between regular Thais are so low, in fact the report I saw indicated that it was much higher. Any inter-racial/cultural union will face challenges, why should it be any different here? I agree that hookers in general the world over will probably not contribute to a healthy matrimonial union but certainly don't subscribe to the theory that regular girls any where will make better companions. Take a look at worldwide divorce stats, its high just about every where. Sure some hookers will deceive and cheat you but so will normal regular hi-so educated women the world over.

In the end its all about character, some hookers have more trust worthy character than normal women who disguise their deception behind their smile and status. There’s no guarantee that because you enter relationship with these so call normal girls your life will be any more full-filling than if you entered into one with a hooker and I certainly am not advocating relationship with hookers. Oh and some normal educated women are clandestine hookers, especially in Thailand as I’m sure you know which is another story. If these old geezers want to marry young hookers to fulfill their needs, let them be. You and I won't do it but we are in no position to look down our noses at them as if they were some inferior beings. It’s a beautiful world out there man, show some love will ya? You have a lot of experience to share but why does it mostly have to be so mercurially negative towards the masses?

_______________________________________________________________

Thailand’s divorce rate increases

BANGKOK: -- Thailand’s divorce rate has risen significantly over the past decade.
Thailand’s national statistics released on Monday has shown that the divorce rate among Thai couples has risen over the past ten years. In 2003, the average rate of divorce was 1.28 couples per thousand people, compared to less than one couple per thousand in 1994.
The number of couples, registered as husband and wife at governmental registration offices across the country has also dramatically declined. According to the figures in 2003, the number of registered Thai marriages was only five per 1,000 people, a fall from seven in 1994.
The largest fall in registered marriages was in the country’s north-eastern region.
Only 5 marriages per thousand were registered in 2003, compared to 8, ten years ago. Government statisticians fear that these figures show a weakening of the family institution in Thailand. The statistics shows a gradual lose of faith in the family, according to government officials. This could lead to other society problems, they warned. The government has been promoting a return to family values in order to preserve a loving and peaceful Thai society.

-

Old Thai Hand
04-24-08, 14:31
You have a lot of experience to share but why does it mostly have to be so mercurially negative towards the masses?

I really like this post, even if you take the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) out of me a bit. It gives me pause.

But, no, I really haven't been hurt by any woman from Isaan, bargirl or otherwise. I've had overall good experiences with the Isaan women who I have known. Although, few of them were bargirls. Actually, the only Thai woman who ever did me wrong in a big way was one of my ex-students who came from Saraburi, not far from BKK. But, I suppose, I've still been co-opted a bit by the urban Thai antipathy towards the poor of the NE, not least because they keep electing governments that are hell-bent on destroying this country.

My beef isn't really with the women. They're just trying any which way to survive, even if it means having unrealistic expectations of a bunch of not very smart guys. More to the point, I have an axe to grind (too much, perhaps) about the type of Farang who comes here and marries these girls, because it does have an impact on me. The letter from the woman in my original post says it all - the stereotype of the Farang/bargirl relationship, which hurts those of us living and working here, who are definitely NOT in this kind of relationship and are trying to make people aware of the difference. I don't like my GF being looked down on simply because she's with an older Farang. She's so far from being a bargirl; in looks, dress and manner, that it makes me fume when people make negative judgements when they find out my GF is from Isaan and is considerably younger than me. Then, of course there's just the everday negative attitude one encounters from people in general when they see us together. Farang guys walking around with hookers and worse marrying hookers are the cause of this, pure and simple.

I realize that I can't change the Thais' deeply held prejudice. But, I do think that these type of Farang/bargirl relationships just exacerbate the problem considerably, which is why I go on too much about them. These relationships just [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) me off because of the negative impact they have. That's the truth of it. I admit that I have utter contempt for these guys who marry these girls.

It's probably not the best thing to be writing on a board like this. But, trust me, this opinion is not that uncommon among many expats not involved in any way with the P4P scene.

Daddy07
04-24-08, 18:32
... More to the point, I have an axe to grind (too much, perhaps) about the type of Farang who comes here and marries these girls, because it does have an impact on me. The letter from the woman in my original post says it all - the stereotype of the Farang/bargirl relationship, which hurts those of us living and working here, who are definitely NOT in this kind of relationship and are trying to make people aware of the difference. I don't like my GF being looked down on simply because she's with an older Farang. She's so far from being a bargirl; in looks, dress and manner, that it makes me fume when people make negative judgements when they find out my GF is from Isaan and is considerably younger than me. Then, of course there's just the everday negative attitude one encounters from people in general when they see us together. Farang guys walking around with hookers and worse marrying hookers are the cause of this, pure and simple...

With all due respect, OTH, I think you are way too concerned with what people think. Why care? You have a beautiful 23 year old girlfriend. Enjoy it! You know she's a good girl. So why give a shit what aquaintences and strangers on the street think about your relationship. Tune them out. You are a very fortunate man.

By the same token, why be concerned with the love life of other farangs and their ladies? Let them enjoy their lives too. No resentment is necessary. Some will succeed. Some will fail. It is no concern of yours. Trying to live according to the expectations of others is a recipe for unhappiness.

Regards,
Daddy

Lexb
04-24-08, 20:42
I do not disagree with the opinion that farang mixing with, having relationships with(paid or, in rare instances, unpaid)and getting married to bar/p4p girls has upset the "natural social order" in areas of Thailand that this fraternization is noticeable. Based on what has been posted about Thai society, however, this should not come as a surprise when a Western culture "invades" an Asiatic culture for social reasons.

I refer you to the link posted by NicFrenchy on the 20th of April:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV0y53yhQFo&feature=related

Justin, IMO, gave clear insight as to why single causasian males come to Thailand in droves stating, in no uncertain terms, "to be loved and find happiness". Something, he goes on to say, that he was unable to find in his native country(I assume the UK).

In addition Justin, according to the video, is age 33 and I believe that if someone had asked him, when he was, say 18, would he ever consider living in SE Asia so that he could have girlfriends. IMO, he would have laughed out loud and told them they were daft!

Extreme desperation for female companionship that is reliable, accomodating, attractive, sexual and, most importantly, AVAILABLE can cause many single men to make life-altering decisions, as to move to or spend as much time as possible, in Thailand.

The question: Why would many ot the single Western males that come to Thailand move away from family, friends and a familiar culture? The answer is Justin's answer("to be loved and find happiness") and, how sad is that?

I ask, using poor Justin as a "Poster Boy", how could you or why would you EVER get involved in a bar/p4p girl. His description of his "girlfriend" was almost laughable in a pathetic sort of way as, from what he stated, she was only interested in the "highest bidder" and once the "worse"(as in "for better or worse") presented itself, she was GONE! Justin painted himself, unfortunately for him, as a classic "patsy".

IMO, the reason many Western single men, like Justin, go "looking for love in all the wrong places" in Thailand, can be attributed to ignorance and convenience.

Ignorance of where to and how to find a Thai girl that would be attracted to them and how do they "court" them if one is ever located. "Culture clash" and a "language barrier" is followed by a fear of the unknown and naturally leads to avoidance of this option.

Conversely, bar/p4p girls are attractive, available, friendly, numerous(can be found in bars, gogos, the street, etc.), great sex and, as a welcomed bonus, some even speak English(at varying levels of proficiency).

Convenient relationships with the type of women that many Western single men are so desperate for; what more can they ask for and why go anywhere else to find it!

Terry Terrier
04-24-08, 23:06
Certainly, there's zero intellectual stimulii - afterall, her idea of critical thought is whether to have 'poo' with her 'pra ra' in her som tam tonight for dinner. These girls are as dumb as posts.

You can just imagine the scenario in the local beer bars back in the days:

Nid: "Hey, girls, that OTH guy's heading up the soi."

Lek: "Oh fuck! Not him again."

Nui: "Yeah, why do some guys think that buying you a ladydrink gives them free entry to your head?"

Tuy: "Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to play thick-as-fuck and just talk about food and make-up."

OTH: "Biah lek krup. Good evening ladies. Have you thought anymore about that fascinating discussion we....."

Silent groans fill the bar's ether.

Old Thai Hand
04-25-08, 01:14
With all due respect, OTH, I think you are way too concerned with what people think. Why care? You have a beautiful 23 year old girlfriend. Enjoy it! You know she's a good girl. So why give a shit what aquaintences and strangers on the street think about your relationship. Tune them out. You are a very fortunate man.

By the same token, why be concerned with the love life of other farangs and their ladies? Let them enjoy their lives too. No resentment is necessary. Some will succeed. Some will fail. It is no concern of yours. Trying to live according to the expectations of others is a recipe for unhappiness.

Regards,
Daddy

Ya. I used to think that. Who gives a FUCK what anyone thinks.

Except, what's brought it home in recent years is that I was told at work that I shouldn't bring my GF to university functions because people would talk and it wouldn't look good. Of course, I suspected the reason for this, but asked anyway. I was told, in no uncertain terms that Thais with whom I work would immediately assume the worst and think she's a bargirl and it would reflect negatively on my position. Despite my protests, that all they would have to do is meet her to know she's a good girl from a good family, well-spoken and polite, I was told emphatically "No" and given a long harangue about Farang and their loso bargirlfriends. I realize this is complete prejudice and totally unjustified. But, it's the reality of what I personally face. So, I admit it's coloured my thinking, considerably.

However, I still find the whole idea of looking for one's mate in what amounts to a glorified brothel goes against the normal social dynamic and interaction that is the mating ritual. A scenario in which one's relationship begins by buying a mate out of a bar and paying for sex (and please don't say we all pay for it - it's not the same) begs the question, "Are these men incapable of forming normal relationships?"

But, you're absolutely right, of course that I shouldn't begrudge another man's relationship and shouldn't care. It isn't my business.

As some have suggested to me by PM, not to mention being told by family and friends, that perhaps I should quit my job and find a more positive, less poisonous working environment, I will say that working where I do gives me a facinating and often alarming incite into the appalling way in which the upper strata of Thai society thinks.

But, hey...time to get off my soap-box and make an effort to keep my personal angst to myself, I suppose.

Run Mann's probably right. Nobody's listening and more importantly, nobody's interested.

Old Thai Hand
04-25-08, 01:18
You can just imagine the scenario in the local beer bars back in the days:

Nid: "Hey, girls, that OTH guy's heading up the soi."

Lek: "Oh fuck! Not him again."

Nui: "Yeah, why do some guys think that buying you a ladydrink gives them free entry to your head?"

Tuy: "Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to play thick-as-fuck and just talk about food and make-up."

OTH: "Biah lek krup. Good evening ladies. Have you thought anymore about that fascinating discussion we....."

Silent groans fill the bar's ether.

Ya, what is it about existentialism that bar girls don't like?;)

NicFrenchy
04-25-08, 02:48
I was told at work that I shouldn't bring my GF to university functions because people would talk and it wouldn't look good. Of course, I suspected the reason for this, but asked anyway. I was told, in no uncertain terms that Thais with whom I work would immediately assume the worst and think she's a bargirl and it would reflect negatively on my position. Despite my protests, that all they would have to do is meet her to know she's a good girl from a good family, well-spoken and polite, I was told emphatically "No" and given a long harangue about Farang and their loso bargirlfriends. I realize this is complete prejudice and totally unjustified. But, it's the reality of what I personally face. So, I admit it's coloured my thinking, considerably.

I believe the same assumptions would come from Farangs. I used to date a very cute girl (sales manager in a respectable shop) and no matter how nice she dressed and how non-P4P she looked, she always got very interested "looks" from Farangs we would encounter. These people clearly thought she was a working girl. I think not only the Thais are prejudiced but so are a lot of Tourist Joe coming here thinking the whole country is just one big Massage Parlor LOL

M P Lurker
04-25-08, 03:04
These people clearly thought she was a working girl. I think not only the Thais are prejudiced but so are a lot of Tourist Joe coming here thinking the whole country is just one big Massage Parlor LOL
You don't really know what people are "clearly" thinking.
But Farangs will ogle at pretty girls. Some will be jealous and be thinking "where can I get one like that?"
I don't believe that ALL Farangs assume every Thai girl with a Farang is P4P.
Depends how the girl acts, how the guy looks and acts, and the knowledge and experience of the Farang looking at them.
My GF likes to dress up with big ear-rings and a bit sexy. So unfortunately she probably looks P4P.

She doesn't speak English with me. Not sure what impression this gives.

Member #3428
04-25-08, 03:23
I am not sure I would enjoy the fleece as much as you would, especially when the SOD is not a businessman but a poor old chap that was already taken for a ride (Married & Divorced) in his own country.

Touche... if it's like you say then you are right... but if it's a businessman then I find it ammusing. Sorry maybe I have a sick sense of humour. I had my balls handed to me on a silver plater last night through a misunderstanding and I am looking in the mirror at what a fool I was. Turned out to my benefit but I love these moments of reflection.

Cheers...

NicFrenchy
04-25-08, 03:53
I had my balls handed to me on a silver plater last night through a misunderstanding and I am looking in the mirror at what a fool I was. Turned out to my benefit but I love these moments of reflection.

Cheers...

Any chance you'll share the Story? Could be quite amusing? :)

Member #3428
04-25-08, 04:25
Any chance you'll share the Story? Could be quite amusing? :)

Over a drink in BKK... if WE ever meet up... how many times have we missed each other???

Too many folks know my TGF... But there was a game of chicken last night and I blinked first and got my balls hand delivered to me.

But right now it's turning out peachy....

Run Mann
04-25-08, 04:48
I really like this post, even if you take the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) out of me a bit. It gives me pause.

My beef isn't really with the women. I have an axe to grind (too much, perhaps) about the type of Farang who comes here and marries these girls, because it does have an impact on me. That's the truth of it. I admit that I have utter contempt for these guys who marry these girls. It's probably not the best thing to be writing on a board like this.
Professor OTH, you are taking years off your life investing this much emotion into something you can do little about, at least not on this board. There's a universal perception that Asian women in relationships with western men are the product of some variation of a monetary sexual connection. That perception, while not always correct does have a high percentage of truth to it and the perception will probably never change.

Your Anger should be directed at the Thai hierarchy, not the Falangs. Some Falangs have a need and see these girls as a way of full-filling that need. Sometimes I too wish they didn’t pick girls from the bottom of the barrel, but it’s none of my business. Terry Terrier was right when he said that Thailand could eliminate or at least significantly reduce the prostitution problem if they wanted to. South Korea is a perfect example of a country that did just that although prostitution is still available, it’s not offered in the same overly offensive manner many people object to. However, the Thais simply do not want to address this issue for a number of reasons, money and corruption being at the forefront of the equation. I could write pages about why many of these men marry Thai girls but no one cares and it would not solve or change anything, the fact is as long as the Thai Hierarchy allows and even covertly promotes prostitution, men will continue to come here and do what they do.

Hey, get a hold of the serenity prayer, I use it often and if there was ever a person it applies to, you are it. Chok Dee Professor!

Chinese Jezebel
04-25-08, 14:08
What type of people you called as farangs?

Dinghy
04-25-08, 17:58
Europeans and Americans usually.

There is also "farang dum" meaning "black farang" and is generally American, some Brit

It's a THAI generalization, though (farang dum)

Old Thai Hand
04-26-08, 03:46
Europeans and Americans usually.

There is also "farang dum" meaning "black farang" and is generally American, some Brit

It's a THAI generalization, though (farang dum)

This quite rightly belongs either in the racism thread or the general thread...

But, anyway, one seldom hears Thais use the term 'Farang dum', IMO. You're likely to hear 'khon dum' far more often. And, actually I've heard 'Chocolate Man' or "Chocolate Girl' far more than any. Maybe it's generational because I've mainly heard younger people using this term.

M P Lurker
04-26-08, 03:50
What type of people you called as farangs?
Yes sorry we are in the wrong thread.

Farang is supposed to mean foreigner but tends to be used with a narrower definition.
East Asians are known as "khon asia" (Asian people)
Indians, Arabs and (some other Middle Eastern) are known as "khon khaek". This word khaek can also mean guest.
Dark skinned are known as "khon piw dumb"
khon=people;phiw=skin;dumb=black

The remaining westerners (mostly with lighter) skin get called Farang (but can include dark skinned).

Thai people with very dark skin can be called:
"dumb dumb" but doesn't mean they are dense.
"phiw clum" refers to Thais with medium dark skin.
My GF is not so white and not so dark, so would be "phiw clum".

Use of these terms is not necessarily Racist, as when talking about various people, anything about the appearance can be latched onto to distinguish one person from another.

A child answering the phone might call out to the parents:
"Farang tow maa" (a Farang is calling - indicating not a Thai natural speaker).

Or the restaurant manager might say to one waitress:
"you take the Farang his bill and Lek can serve the khon khaek".
The manager could have refered to colour of the shirt equally well, unless they were wearing similar colours.

I have a close friend who is dark skinned and she refers to herself as black. Its not such a big deal.

Run Mann
04-26-08, 13:30
Eye opening and poignant articles about Thai women, Falangs and the culture which relates to some of the recent discussion here.

http://www.thefarang.com/2008/03/29/thai-farang-prostitution-bad-thai-thai-prostitution-good/

Old Thai Hand
04-26-08, 16:14
Eye opening and poignant articles about Thai women, Falangs and the culture which relates to some of the recent discussion here.

http://www.thefarang.com/2008/03/29/thai-farang-prostitution-bad-thai-thai-prostitution-good/

Interesting article. It's of course very Thai to blame the Farang for everything and to ignore the root causes of the problem. I agreed with a comment you made earlier along the lines that if there was the will, the Thais could reduce prostitution drastically much the same as the Koreans have. While not a popular sentiment on a board like this, I'd personally love to see that happen.

However, the aspect of this article that I find disturbing is the spectre of some official attempt to limit or prevent Thai-Farang relationships. There are so many other areas in which the Thais have already made it more difficult for Farang to stay here, that it wouldn't surprise me if something similar to what has happened in Cambodia, where mixed marriages are now not allowed, happens here.

Appcid
04-27-08, 15:59
I have been talking to some Thai gals from Thai love links. IM has been fun and am agreeing to meet some. Some questions for those that know Thai culture. Many pictures have girls giving peace sign. Also, I have received winks. In Thai do these have any special meaning I should be aware of.

Any other signs or gestures to be looked for, or are there gestures that we should avoid or attempt for that matter. May sound odd to ask but these type of things can be important in some cultures

Old Thai Hand
04-28-08, 01:09
I have been talking to some Thai gals from Thai love links. IM has been fun and am agreeing to meet some. Some questions for those that know Thai culture. Many pictures have girls giving peace sign. Also, I have received winks. In Thai do these have any special meaning I should be aware of.

Any other signs or gestures to be looked for, or are there gestures that we should avoid or attempt for that matter. May sound odd to ask but these type of things can be important in some cultures

The peace sign means "friendship". As far as I know, if the wink is just a standard wink, it means the same as in Western cultures, except it's actually a little rude to wink at a girl unless you actually know her quite well.
If both eyes are closed, or sort of half open, and the chin is raised, this means, "I know" or "I agree", or simply, "Yes".

The thumb and index finger extended, last three fingers folded, palm facing in, hand placed below the chin so that the thumb and index finger frame the chin means, "I'm ab-baew", meaning, "I'm really cute". It's a popular teenage slang thing that has made it's way into the mainstream.



If I think of any others, I'll add them.

The Thais have lots of gestures. But, they're difficult to explain.

Sanook D
04-28-08, 03:39
if there was the will, the Thais could reduce prostitution drastically much the same as the Koreans have

They could do what the Japanese have done, and have a sex industry which is at least as big in terms of revenue, and to the trained eye far more ubiquitous (BJ shops easily found at every major train station, and no shortage of shops around the small ones) as Thailand's, but to which foreigners are not welcome.


However, the aspect of this article that I find disturbing is the spectre of some official attempt to limit or prevent Thai-Farang relationships.

Yes, reading the article I was imagining some Chinese politician deciding that Lao and Khmer girls in Isaan losing their Thai culture might be a problem. I was also imagining being back in Thailand where a thought like that might even make a little sense.

Animby
04-28-08, 07:06
The main reasons cited for such an alarmingly high failure rate weres culture clashes and most importantly, that the girls in question all thought their "knight in shining armour" was considerably richer than he turned out to be.

OTH, I saw a cartoon once that shows a man talking to a bargirl and he says something to the effect: "Okay, a million baht for your Mom, a new pickup truck for your Dad and 50,000 baht a month for you. What do I get?" She answers, "Fuck all..."

I always thought the reply should be, "On my night off, if none of my boyfriends are in town, you can sleep with me, if I'm not too tired."

Someone once told me, even if a bargirl hates the fucking, she loves the life. So, in the lyrics of an old song, "How ya gonna keep her down on the farm...?"

Old Thai Hand
04-28-08, 09:10
OTH, I saw a cartoon once that shows a man talking to a bargirl and he says something to the effect: "Okay, a million baht for your Mom, a new pickup truck for your Dad and 50,000 baht a month for you. What do I get?" She answers, "Fuck all..."

I always thought the reply should be, "On my night off, if none of my boyfriends are in town, you can sleep with me, if I'm not too tired."

Someone once told me, even if a bargirl hates the fucking, she loves the life. So, in the lyrics of an old song, "How ya gonna keep her down on the farm...?"

When I was first here, I worked with a REAL Old Thai Hand, who knew this country inside out and, in particular had a lot of experience in his early years here with bargirls. He told me something, which I have since heard dozens of times from different people: that P4P girls become addicted to the life and it changes them fundamentally and permanently. One could argue that being in the biz alters them psychologically. In my experience, they certainly don't think or act like normal Thai women act and are really quite screwed up. This is why I personally think that any guy who goes beyond the 3Fs with any of these girls is an idiot.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no excuse for an expat settling for a bargirl, when he could do much better, IMO. I know I'm going to get flamed (again) by the usual crowd for this opinion. But, it is my opinion, for what it's worth and I'm just entitled to think this way as others are in thinking that P4P girls are the salt of the earth. If you're living here, there are many opportunities to meet nice girls who, believe it or not don't have the single-minded agenda of fleecing you for everything you've got, and with whom you can form mutually-rewarding and meaningful relationships. The problem is, that a lot of guys simply don't know how to go about meeting a decent Thai woman, so take the easy way out.

In my first year or so here, I went this familiar route. My first GF came from soi Cowboy - very predictable, indeed. But, I managed to avoid falling for her or any other of these type of girls and more importantly avoided getting taken for a ride. I successfully moved quickly beyond P4P as a source for anything but frivolous fun because I recognized immediately that there was so much more out there. All it takes really is a little effort.

Lexb
04-28-08, 09:40
I really is not my favourite thing to do quoting myself, but please refer to my post in this collumn dated the 24th of April where I stated the same thing as OTH stated in his post today.

I guess great minds run on the same channel, eh!(just joking!)

Even though I do not live in Thailand, I at least credit myself with having some knowledge of how men think as I am able to identify with a great amount of mens' motives and motivations and the actions generated from same.

Cheers!

Daddy07
04-28-08, 13:33
...If you're living here, there are many opportunities to meet nice girls who, believe it or not don't have the single-minded agenda of fleecing you for everything you've got, and with whom you can form mutually-rewarding and meaningful relationships...

Yeah, but then you must become a lier and a cheat, or else give up all the other pretty little girls. :(

Old Thai Hand
04-28-08, 13:43
Yeah, but then you must become a lier and a cheat, or else give up all the other pretty little girls. :(

Daddy

You're still a newby here. So, it's all still exciting. But, you will reach a point (hopefully quickly) when you get sick of these particular kind of girls. It's happened to pretty well everyone I know. I don't care what P4P appologists say, these girls are uninteresting and generally pretty stupid, not to mention completely fucked in the head, and become a huge pain to be around, even for the allotted time it takes for short-time. When you learn enough of the lingo (meaning Isaan, not Thai) to understand what they gossip about with each other, it's pretty clear how limited they are in their thought processes and how screwed up they are. I never used to let on that I could understand them, always pretending to be fresh off the plane. Even when they knew me, it never occurred to them that a Farang could understand their Isaan "code". Listening to their mind-numbing, endless twaddle was what initially turned me off the whole bar scene.


Anyway... I was mainly talking about quality, in my post, not especially committment to a single girl. You can still have more than one girl, if that's your thing. It's very Thai to have a main relationship and maybe a Gig on the side. I've been that route too. Now, I've become more or less monogamous and am happy to be so because I have someone of real quality and don't want to risk blowing it.

But, to each his own. Just don't settle for used, damaged goods when you can find something a hell of a lot better. That's my point.

Run Mann
04-28-08, 15:23
I have been talking to some Thai gals from Thai love links. IM has been fun and am agreeing to meet some.

Someone (in Australia??) is making a killing off these dating (TLL, AE,CLL) sites because they all seem to be under one umbrella but I am not convinced about the wholesome integrity of any of these sites. I got a kick out of them years ago and most recently when I played around on Asian Euro which seems to be the most diverse of the group of sites but with tons of Filipinos. I actually conducted my own social experiment on the Thai, Chinese and AE sites and may share those results here one day; the results actually confirmed some of the things some members here have written about in the past. Oh, on AE I saw a pic of an older woman who had previously worked in Nana but to her credit, she did not try to camouflage her profile, she was upfront about who she was and said she is only looking for friends to chat. Somehow I don't think she is getting too many IMs as a standard member because she has a face that is honestly, aesthetically challenging.

Not all the girls on those sites are normal girls (whatever that means and whoever they are), some are straight out of the night life and you can pretty much gauge by the dialogue who is who. The display pictures are not always of the girls and maybe the same can be said for the men but I can't speak to that because for obvious reasons I never chatted with any of them. There's a platoon of IMs from people living in Africa who never have any display pictures and their dialogue are all the same. They will invite you to yahoo messenger and send you pics of beautiful models then sucker you into their trap. They are so amateurish though I can’t imagine anyone falling for what they are selling but who knows.

Most of the girls are in internet cafes and are relatively young and attractive but in my experience many of them had their own agendas. Many were from Khon Khen, Chaing Mai and Udon but there were also many from good ole BKK. There are some old hags on there too, some I saw were in their 50s I chatted with a few of them just to say hello but who can blame them for trying. Again though not sure what they accomplished from being on those sites. Some of the girls were brutally honest and would want to meet right away and some wanted to play the dating game. To me, it was fun stuff to do when I was bored and although the sites are boasting about how successful they are in making successful connection for many couples, I remain skeptical. I think these sites are an alternative option to the regular route mongers take like go-go, FLs, massages shops etc, because you can generate many phone numbers, contacts and pictures and even a good sexhibition show now and again. I have a friend in the PI who met his wife on the Filipina Hearts site so I know it can work but it took some effort before he met her. The sites are also good for fun and chatting and perhaps if you stick with them you can meet that special someone but I suspect people in that last group are in the minority. The one thing I have is a slew of phone numbers, pictures and email addresses should I ever need them on a rainy day. Unfortunately (for them?) or fortunately (for me?) I don't think I will ever need them any time soon.

Old Thai Hand
04-28-08, 16:40
Run Mann

I agree with you about these sites. But, I think that a few years ago there was some legitimacy about them in that the women were mostly what they said they were and certainly few, if any were pros. I met about 65 in person from both AsianEuro and ThaiLovelinks. Of those, only two turned out to be bargirls and I met both of them within the last year or so. Before that, all of the ones I met seemed to be regular TGs - students, office workers, shopgirls, tour guides, teachers; even two who were lawyers and another who was a parliamentary assistant.

AsianEuro was taken over some time ago by money-grubbing Filipinas and ThaiLovelinks increasingly seems to be made up of thinly disguised girls from P4P.

I had many good and several quite frightening experiences which I relayed some time ago in a post about this.

I had pretty well decided that these sites were definitely not the place to find a serious relationship, when 2 years ago I met my current GF on TLL. She had only been a member for a couple of days (as a lark with a couple of her friends from school), I snagged her fast, and she's turned out to be a true gem. But, I agree with you that this kind of success is very rare.

Retired Army
04-28-08, 16:51
...If you're living here, there are many opportunities to meet nice girls who, believe it or not don't have the single-minded agenda of fleecing you for everything you've got, and with whom you can form mutually-rewarding and meaningful relationships. The problem is, that a lot of guys simply don't know how to go about meeting a decent Thai woman, so take the easy way out.



OTH is absolutely spot-on with this post. It's not easy to break into Thai culture and meet really decent non-P4P Thai woman; but, it's much more satisfying once you do. I was able to do it after a couple of years and I have never regreted the decision. Bar girls get very boring quickly.

RA

Opebo
04-28-08, 22:40
I've always found it very easy to get middle-class educated Thai girlfriends, but it is tiresome and uninteresting, and certainly no where near as sexually satisfying as the P4P options OTH is so eager to see taken from us.

Old Thai Hand
04-29-08, 02:35
I've always found it very easy to get middle-class educated Thai girlfriends, but it is tiresome and uninteresting, and certainly no where near as sexually satisfying as the P4P options OTH is so eager to see taken from us.

Maybe it's you who's boring, not the girls, and maybe you aren't particularly adept at dealing with normal girls and normal relationships, given your proclivity for risky and aberrant behaviour in P4P. You come across as an intelligent, but incredibly corrupt and morally bankrupt individual.

Personally, I've never had a P4P girl even come close in ability to many of the regular TGs I've had. Not to mention that, contrary to what you say, most educated, middle-class Thai women are far more interesting to be with and to interract with than the boring, 2-dimensional, screwed-up girls in P4P. They're also generally much better looking than P4P girls, IMO and know how to behave properly when out in social situations. There's simply no comparison.

Your phrase about "P4P options"...being "taken from us" reveals so much about you. Who the hell do you think you are and why do you think you have some right to P4P here?

My desire to see the end of or at least reduction in prostitution in Thailand, as has happened in Korea is a recognition of the need to see Thailand develop properly as a nation, particularly in social equality, which would give these girls the education, they so desperately need and as a result give them other more culturally acceptable options to make a decent living and have decent lives. There is much that needs to be done in this regard: better schools and more industry and technology creating jobs in Isaan, with much better salaries.

Someone such as you, who by your own admission in several previous posts wants to keep these girls poor and ignorant so that you can have a continuous source of cheap pussy is nothing short of a social pariah and worse.

Daddy07
04-29-08, 05:05
Daddy ... You're still a newby here. So, it's all still exciting. But, you will reach a point (hopefully quickly) when you get sick of these particular kind of girls. It's happened to pretty well everyone I know...

Ok, I understand that young, beautiful, pure, sweet, unused, undamaged girls of premium quality can be found offering meaningful relationships far more intellectually and sexually fulfilling than those possible with the P4P hotties. It’s true! Having lived in Thailand only 6 months now, I’ve already had a few such golden opportunities for domestic bliss.

Suppose, like you, I decide to acquire one. Then what? I’m 62. She’s barely in her 20’s. Her mom and pop are younger than me – maybe 10 or even 20 years younger. Her adult life is just starting. I’m retired. She wants to start a family soon; have babies. Should I father her little babies? My daughter is old enough to be her mother. She thrives in her interactions with friends and family. I like to live alone. She likes to party, dance, and socialize. Again, I like to be alone. I want to relax and stay home. She wants one man for love, family and financial support. I want to fuck and fondle every pretty young girl I see. The relationship is like a lovely flower, and just like a pretty young flower, all too soon the bloom is off the rose. It’s just not fair for either side.

My fantasy has always been to someday enjoy a sex life much like the biblical King Solomon, an Arab Sultan, or an Egyptian Pharaoh. These guys had harems full of nubile young puppies, all trained to provide sexual services fit for a king. They chose their bedtime companions the same as they plucked the very best fruit from the trees. They had favorites as well as new lovelies available 24/7 -- an endless erotic variety at their beck and call.

I am living that fantasy now in Pattaya Thailand. And I have it much better than all the historical kings and other potentates because I can have as much feminine services and company as I desire without the necessity to support them and their families beyond the $15-$50 they demand for each session. Who cares about their intelligence or life interests? Love abounds, but not domestic love. (Something has to be sacrificed for this fantasy to succeed) It’s a win-win situation. It’s fair.

So, if you want family and babies and intellectual stimulation along with occasional sexual gratification, by all means seek and find a good little girlfriend. You will be dead by the time the kids reach puberty, but so what? If you want to lead a happy, carefree, irresponsible life of lust and debauchery in your golden years, stick with P4P. This wonderful forum tells you where to find ‘em.

Regards,
Daddy

Arizonan
04-29-08, 05:48
I've always found it very easy to get middle-class educated Thai girlfriends, but it is tiresome and uninteresting, and certainly no where near as sexually satisfying as the P4P options OTH is so eager to see taken from us.My former "middle-class educated Thai Girlfriend" was interesting, smart, well read, and made her way through two degrees in college on loans, money from her parents (her father was a retired Army officer) and hard work, and never worked in a beer bar, or topless/gogo bar. Was she sexually satisfying to me? Oh my God, yes. She was a sexual dynamo, an orgasm machine, who was just as horny as I was, and would take care of me even when she wasn't up for it, and I was. I never messed around on her, even though one of her hottie friends was looking for some wood, and approached ME.

P4P is good for some, as is having a good girlfriend is for others. I've tried both, and can't recommend either. But I will say this - if you find a girl you are really sexually compatible with, and she's not a pain in the ass, stick with her, unless of course you just want variety every night. None of are sexually compatible with every girl we meet, even in Thailand. Sure, we'd like to think we were, but it's just not that way.