American Women

[Frequent Flier]

I know that Russel Simmons, the founder of Def Jam Records, is married to a former Filipina model.

Actually, I read that Kimora Lee Simmons parents are African American and Japanese. I think that is qualification enough to be considered a Filipina though :)

She is certainly beautiful, but then again who knows with all the make up available these days. I do remember seeing a mug shot photo of her without all her wealth painted on her face and she was quite ordinary looking, but still sexy.

I am pretty sure that Mr Woods met his wife in Thailand, just another smart guy like us yet way ahead of his time, as most smart men are. She is also European and Chinese and Daddy Woods is part Chinese as well along with American Indian.
I'm German American with a little Scottish and I do mean a little..shit!

On the subject of Hispanics hooking up with AW here in the states, especially in the east to north east. I would attribute this to a lack of available talent. Poor Bastards have no where else to go. They probably are just settling for what is available. I would think that the number of Hispanic males entering these areas are far more than the number of Hispanic females moving into to these areas. I wish more of the females would move here as well :)

FF

[Bart9000]

I did happen to think of something pertinent to the discussion. I did think of an example of elevated social status (at least percieved) in a female allowing her to get a more attractive male..

I remember back during college, a "regular guy" buddy of mine from a pretty much blue collar family had a long relationship with a "heavy duty". She was a sweet girl, but quite frankly was just about as wide, as she was tall. I am pretty sure as my buddy was a typical normal "shallow" guy, that her most attractive feature to him was the novelty of dating a "rich girl" (her family lived in a wealthy community-Dad was probably a lawyer or mid level executive). They went out for about two years.

Again, anecodtal evidence proves very little but.....

[Long Stroker]

Mind Over Muscle
By DAVID BROOKS
The New York Times

Once upon a time, it was a man's world. Men possessed most of the tools one needed for power and success: muscles, connections, control of the crucial social institutions.

But then along came the information age to change all that. In the information age, education is the gateway to success. And that means this is turning into a woman's world, because women are better students than men.

From the first days of school, girls outperform boys. The gap is sometimes small, but over time slight advantages accumulate into big ones. In surveys, kindergarten teachers report that girls are more attentive than boys and more persistent at tasks. Through elementary school, girls are less likely to be asked to repeat a grade. They are much less likely to be diagnosed with a learning disability.

In high school, girls get higher grades in every subject, usually by about a quarter of a point, and have a higher median class rank. They are more likely to take advanced placement courses and the hardest math courses, and are more likely to be straight-A students. They have much higher reading and writing scores on national assessment tests. Boys still enjoy an advantage on math and science tests, but that gap is smaller and closing.

Girls are much more likely to be involved in the school paper or yearbook, to be elected to student government and to be members of academic clubs. They set higher goals for their post-high-school career. (This data is all from the Department of Education.)

The differences become monumental in college. Women are more likely to enroll in college and they are more likely to have better applications, so now there are hundreds of schools where the female-male ratio is 60 to 40. Here's the important piece of data: Until 1985 or so, male college graduates outnumbered female college graduates. But in the mid-80's, women drew even, and ever since they have been pulling away at a phenomenal rate.

This year, 133 women will graduate from college for every 100 men. By decade's end, according to Department of Education projections, there will be 142 female graduates for every 100 male graduates. Among African-Americans, there are 200 female grads for every 100 male grads.

The social consequences are bound to be profound. The upside is that by sheer force of numbers, women will be holding more and more leadership jobs. On the negative side, they will have a harder and harder time finding marriageable men with comparable education levels. One thing is for sure: in 30 years the notion that we live in an oppressive patriarchy that discriminates against women will be regarded as a quaint anachronism.

There are debates about why women have thrived and men have faltered. Some say men are imprisoned by their anti-intellectual machismo. Others say the educational system has been overly feminized. Boys are asked to sit quietly for hours at a stretch under conditions where they find it harder to thrive.

But Thomas G. Mortensen of the Pell Institute observes that these same trends - thriving women, faltering men - are observable across the world. In nearly all developed countries, women are graduating from high school and college at much higher rates than men. Mortensen writes, "We conclude that the issue is far less driven by a nation's culture than it is by basic differences between males and females in the developed world."

In other words, if we want to help boys keep up with girls, we have to have an honest discussion about innate differences between the sexes. We have to figure out why poor girls who move to middle-class schools do better, but poor boys who make the same move often do worse. We have to absorb the obvious lesson of every airport bookstore, which is that men and women like to read totally different sorts of books, and see if we can apply this fact when designing curriculums. If boys like to read about war and combat, why can't there be books about combat on the curriculum?

Would elementary school boys do better if they spent more time outside the classroom and less time chained to a desk? Or would they thrive more in a rigorous, competitive environment?

For 30 years, attention has focused on feminine equality. During that time honest discussion of innate differences has been stifled (ask Larry Summers). It's time to look at the other half.

[Darkseid]

That's a very true trend. About 80% of all teachers in schools are female especially in the grade schools. They also punish boys more often than girls even if the girls start the problem.
Feminism 101 or rather "Woman's Studies" is also taught in major universities. The grades for this class is as follows:
A - You are a lesbian female
B - You are a bisexual female
C - You are a straight female
D - You are a gay male
F - You are a straight male.

Actually most of the sex I had in the USA is from the West Coast - in Las Vegas and in California, outside of L.A. I do find that Asians are more accepted in the West than in the East where they want to group people. My West Coast cousins have an easier time hooking up with chicks than my East Coast relatives. They were even offered promotions to come to New York but declined them. I even ask them if they can get me into their positions even if they pay slightly lower. I guess while I am stuck here, I will save all my money.

[Monger#77]

http://fredoneverything.net/Feminization.shtml

Women are moving ahead of men. This is not because women are intellectually superior. It is because women now control society ( directly, and indirectly because they outnumber men and vote in a bloc in regards to women's issues).

I will let Fred Reed counter most of the points I read in the previous article, however.

The Feminization Of America



March 29, 2004

In the United States women are, I think for the first time in history, gaining real power. Often nations have had queens, heiresses, and female aristocrats. These do not amount to much. Today women occupy positions of genuine authority in fields that matter, as for example publishing, journalism, and academia. They control education through high school. Politicians scramble for their votes. They control the divorce courts and usually get their way with things that matter to them.

If this is not unprecedented, I do not know of the precedent. What will be the consequences?

Men have controlled the world through most of history so we know what they do: build things, break things, invent things, compete with each other fiercely and often pointlessly, and fight endless wars that seem to them justifiable at the time but that, seen from afar, are just what males do. The unanswered question is what women would, or will, do. How will their increasing influence reshape the polity?

Women and men want very different things and therefore very different worlds. Men want sex, freedom, and adventure; women want security, pleasantness, and someone to care about (or for)them. Both like power. Men use it to conquer their neighbors whether in business or war, women to impose security and pleasantness.

I do not suggest that the instinctive behavior of women is necessarily bad, nor that of men necessarily good. I do suggest that that the effects will be profound, probably irreversible, and not necessarily entirely to the liking of either sex. The question may be whether one fears most being conquered or being nicened to death.

Consider what is called the Nanny State by men, who feel smothered by it, but is accepted if not supported by women, who see it as protective and caring. (Yes, I know that there are exceptions and degrees in all of this, and no, I don’t have polling data.) Note that women are much more concerned than are men about health and well-being. Women worry about second-hand smoke, outlawing guns, lowering the allowable blood-alcohol levels for drivers, making little boys wear helmets while riding bicycles, and outlawing such forms of violence as dodge ball or the use of plastic ray guns. Much of this is demonstrably irrational, but that is the nature of instincts. (Neither is the male tendency to form armed bands and attack anyone within reach a pinnacle of reason.)

The implications of female influence for freedom, at least as men understand the word, are not good. Women will accept restrictions on their behavior if in doing so they feel more secure. They have less need of freedom, which is not particularly important in living a secure, orderly, routine, and comfortable life. They tend not to see political correctness as irritating, but as keeping people from saying unpleasant things.

The growing feminizaton accounts for much of the decline in the schools. The hostility to competition of any sort is an expression of the female desire for pleasantness; competition is a mild form of combat, by which men are attracted and women repelled. The emphasis on how children feel about each other instead of on what they learn is profoundly female (as for that matter is the associated fascination with psychotherapy). The drugging of male schoolchildren into passivity is the imposition of pleasantness by chemical means. Little boys are not nice, but fidgety wild men writ small who, bored out of their skulls, tend to rowdiness. They are also hard for the average woman to control and, since male teachers are absent, gelded, or terrified of litigious parents, expulsion and resort to the police fill the void. The oft-repeated suspension of boys for drawing soldiers or playing space war is, methinks, a quietly hysterical attempt to assuage formless insecurity.

The change in marriage and the deterioration of the family are likewise the results of the growth of political power of women. Whether this is good or bad remains to be seen, but it is assuredly happening. Divorce became common because women wanted to get out of unsatisfactory marriages. In divorce women usually want the children, and have the clout to get them. But someone has to feed the young. Thus the vindictive pursuit of divorced fathers who won’t or can’t pay child support. And thus the rise of the government as de facto father to provide welfare, tax breaks, daycare, and otherwise behave as a virtual husband.

When women entered a male workplace, they found that they didn’t much like it. Men told off-color jokes, looked at protuberant body parts, engaged in rough verbal sparring as a form of social interaction, and behaved in accord with rules that women didn’t and don’t understand. Women had the influence to change things, and did. Laws grew like kudzu to ban sexual harassment, whether real or imagined. Affirmative action, in addition to being a naked power grab, avoids competition and therefore making the losers feel bad. It degrades the performance of organizations, sometimes seriously, but performance is a preoccupation of males.

Men are capable of malignant government, whether authoritarian or totalitarian, as witness North Korea or the Russia of Stalin. I don’t know whether women would behave as badly if they had the power. (I’d guess not.) But women have their own totalitarian tendencies. They will if allowed impose a seamless tyranny of suffocating safety, social control, and political propriety. Men are happy for men to be men and women to be women; women want us all to be women.

The United States becomes daily more a woman’s world: comfortable, safe, with few outlets for a man’s desire for risk. The America of wild empty country, of guns and fishing and hunting, of physical labor and hot rods and schoolyard fights, has turned gradually into a land of shopping malls and sensible cars and bureaucracy. Risk is now mostly artificial and not very risky. There is skydiving and scuba and you can still find places to go fast on motorcycles, but it gets harder. Jobs increasingly require the feminine virtues of patience, accommodation to routine, and subordination of performance to civility. Just about everything that once defined masculinity is now denounced as “macho,” a hostile word embodying the female incomprehension of men.

A case can be made that a feminized world would (or will) be preferable to a masculine. Perhaps. It is males who bomb cities and shoot people in Seven-Elevens. Yet the experiment has not been made. I suspect we will have the worst of both worlds: a nation in which men at the top engage in the usual wars and, a step below, women impose inutterable boredom.

[CBGBConnisur]

The feminist movement is strongest in the USA and Canada, but outside North America things are very different. In Western Europe and Ozzie, the locals can easily visit Eastern Europe or Asia if local women become trouble. These days, its difficult for Americans to travel or live abroad which is not good news for those of us who are looking beyond our shores for women. AWs near the Mexican border might be a bit better but not by much.

[Chocha Monger]

I find the use of the term "marriageable" to be very interesting. What exactly makes one marriageable or not in the US. I suspect that for an AW a marriageable man is one who earns much more than she does. If that is the case, then the indications that men are falling behind in earnings and education will have profound consequences for women.

What will the American woman do when men can no longer to take her out to expensive dinners, buy her a big house and luxury car? Who will finance those kids that she wants to have? It seems that at some point she will no longer be able to have her cake and eat it too. Perhaps high earning women will date each other and visit sperm banks to obtain those kids that they all seem to want. Eventually women will marry women and that would make for some interesting divorce and custody battles. One can't help but wonder how the children brought up such a society will fare, a society where men no longer play active leadership roles.

I have seen women at work and frankly their propensity for backstabbing and gossip does not lead me to believe in the utopian propaganda that they spread. Female pleasantries are often belied by hypocrisy and viciousness. Legends of female dominated societies such as the Amazons potray anything but gentleness and equality for all. Female leaders throughout history have proven to be caple of corruption and war mongering as well as any man.

When American can no longer pretend to be victims and blame men for all their ills they will turn on each other surely. Things might not be all that bad for men in the future, at least they will no longer be considered cash cows to be used to finance every female whim. Women will be forced to choose between a poor man and a wealthy lesbian.

[Cyberdas]

IMHO, most (if not all) high-powered AW have opted for the "there are other fish in the sea" option since they (and the same goes for the rest of AW) only date-up. I agree with Chocha Monger in that these "Women will be forced to choose between a poor man and a wealthy lesbian". I think they'll choose the wealthy lesbian over a poor or average man any day of the week.

Sexy, successful…and single?
By Elsa K. Simcik

Here’s the scene: A woman’s spending way too much time around the cheese tray at her neighbor’s drab get-together when suddenly, a tall, slightly stubbled gentleman (think Jack from Lost) approaches. After about 30 seconds of swapping stories about how they each know Trish (host of said drab gathering), he predictably asks her, “So, what do you do?”

Sounds cheesy (pardon the pun), but some women dread revealing their occupation. Who are they? They’re women with impressive jobs—doctors, lawyers, engineers.

And a woman having an impressive job always yields the same reaction from a man: Confusion, awkwardness, that moment when he’s wondering, “Is my job as an assistant manager of a copy shop going to sound pitiful?”

Apparently just because you have a lot of degrees on your wall doesn’t mean you have a lot of suitors at your door. And as women continue to achieve higher-level jobs, there are more smart, accomplished gals who have to face the fact that they may intimidate men. In fact, in 2003, women accounted for 36% of all chemists, 28% of all lawyers, 30% of all physicians and surgeons, and — wow — 66% of all psychologists.

So are successful women doomed to a life of tense cheese-tray introductions? Of course not. These women can either be patient till an equally high-powered man or a naturally confident fella turns up. Or they can know how best to present their career so as not to scare off less-assured guys. Here, some pointers:

Ask for advice
Bring your career down to reality, suggests John Gray, Ph.D., author of Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. Open up and show a vulnerable side right from the beginning, “When a woman immediately senses that a man is intimidated, she should find a way of communicating that she has a need for some advice,” Dr. Gray explains: “For example, if she’s a doctor, she could talk to him about something frustrating that happened at the hospital that day.” Dr. Gray points out that men want to feel needed, so this tactic is a good way to bring him inside your circle.

Chat up guys about their career
“I say date someone who is as equally passionate about their job as you are,” recommends Jill Farrar, a lawyer. “After speaking legal jargon all day, that’s the last thing I want to come home to. I find myself usually dating doctors, architects or even salesmen—guys who are consumed with their jobs and want to swap stories with me.”

Find equal footing
Don’t let the conversation just be about work. Find a way to change the topic to something you can both relate to: The last movie you saw, your favorite spot for a hike, the wine-tasting class you’re taking next week. The goal here is to get talking about mutual interests—or hobbies you can share with one another. This isn’t just resume-trading time. Show what else makes you tick.

Know when it’s not going to work…
Still, some high-powered gals know that there are some situations where it’s best to say ‘there are other fish in the sea’: “I dated a guy who couldn’t get over the fact that I had a Master’s degree,” admits Whitney Bessler. “Since he hadn’t been to college, he would always remind me that I had two more degrees than him. He even made a point to read the newspaper right before he would pick me up. I didn’t care about our educational differences. But I did care that he made an issue out of it.” Whitney packed up her two framed diplomas and left.

And what if a guy is perhaps too pleased about your turbo-charged career? That’s a situation Kory Jones, a surgical resident, faced. She thought dating a musician/bartender would provide a nice balance to her intense, life-and-death, grueling-schedule job. “Most guys I date get fed up with the amount of time I spend at work,” explains Dr. Jones. “But this guy encouraged it. He told me to work hard so that when I was done with my residency I would ‘make the big bucks.’ The last straw was when he introduced me as his Sugar Mama.” The lesson here? Sometimes you don’t have to think too hard to know when a relationship just isn’t going to work.

Elsa K. Simcik is a writer specializing in relationships and fitness. Besides MSN Dating and Personals, Elsa has contributed to Men’s Edge, Daily Candy, Women’s Health and Fitness and more. She can be reached at www.writinggal.com.

[Eric15]

IMHO, most ... high-powered AW ... only date-up. I agree with Chocha Monger in that these "Women will be forced to choose between a poor man and a wealthy lesbian". I think they'll choose the wealthy lesbian over a poor or average man any day of the week.When men finally realize that women have sex, not for pleasure but primarily to gain power, it becomes clear that high-powered AW will date lesbians.

[Bart9000]

This brings to mind something that I had been meaning to post about for some time. Something I have been seeing over the last couple of years is successful women pairing up with a man (I've seen the term "himbo" used) who is younger (I've seen 5-8 year differences), much less successful (I've seen "does seasonal work part of the year" paired with "six figure pharmaceutical rep"), and in my personal opinion, much less intelligent. What these women have done is basically gone out and found themselves a pet that can fuck them.

Granted, men do also commonly behave in a manner similar to this, but there is at least some evolutionary justification with they younger (not as smart, less accomplished) more attractive mate being more able to bear children than would a man's "equal" at say 36-40 years of age. Also, we generally admit to being "shallow" and into youth and beauty....which women hypocritically condem us for.

Also, someone posted about women's assertion that they are the "kinder gentler, morally superior" gender. This is complete and total bullshit.

As I have tried to explain to someone close to me who buys the propaganda, women can be the absolutely most vicious, vindictive, petty, deceptive, cut-throat creatures you could possibly imagine, and they are that way without a shred of guilt about it. And I don't want to hear any shit about "defending themselves from men", because they are actually WORSE to each other than to men. I'm sure we can all come up with examples. One jumping to my mind is an acquaintance I used to know whose wife left. She cleaned out the house down to taking ratty worn out washcloths and slivers of soap.

[Sinanju Master]

B9K, I've seen examples of the treachery of women that would make a James Bond villain seem like a grade school dunce. One brief example that comes to mind is my bud who married such a diabolical creature. He met her in December '95, proposed on Valetine's Day '96 (excuse me for a moment while I empty the contents of my stomach into the toilet) and married her the following May. Right before they were divorced, 1] he found out he was hubby #3 instead of #2, 2] she tried to have her premarital debts dumped on HIM and (the most outrageous) 3] she tried to sue him to carry out #2 AND to have him pay for the removal of her breast implants!! Also, AFTER they were divorced, to make it seem like she was extending an olive branch, she sent over her daughter (from a previous marriage) to say Hello. This girl, young as she was, had already learned the craft of treachery from her mother and my bud thankfully saw right through it: he knew she was going to try to claim he molested her if she got her foot in the door.

Tyhigs77, your post made me think of the state of this country due to the pussification of our society. While we are focusing on making our kids feel better about themselves, other countries are kicking the SHIT out of us scholastically, which trickles down to just WHO are the brains of this country: recent first generation immigrants or second generation immigrants who haven't been corrupted by the agenda of the jack-booted, brown-shirt Feminazis who want to eliminate competition (a male trait). That "bad" male trait is alive and well in other countries and as a result, creates a labor pool that companies in this country will fight over. I remember back in '97 I was conversing with a guy from Dhaka, Bangladesh. He was trying to get a job as a dealer in a casino, but he had a Master's Degree in ENGINEERING. There were SO MANY others like him in his country that they had to settle for whatever job they could possibly GET. He had to settle for a casino job in this country because he wasn't yet able to put his education to practical use.

To paraphrase an example I posted a long time ago, a FEMALE scientist said that if WOMEN ruled the world from the beginning, we'd all be wearing grass skirts and doing housework instead of having achieved what we have, such as advances in medicine, science, art, and so on.

[Mike12]

Read some bullshit in Sundays Newsday paper about how female immigrants are being taught womanism and feminist principles by some AW's at a location in Queens. The article mentioned efforts to help Afghan woman empower themselves here in America... God forbid they should want to stay home and cook dinner for their husbands. The picture in the article showed about 10 woman standing tall with only 3 cracking smiles. One Iranian looking one had spiked hair sitting next to a fat chick looking all business. There was a smiling chinese girl who probably forgot to glare and look all pissed off like the other ones.

[Cyberdas]

If this guy knew about this forum, do doubt he would know what to do. There are many alternatives around the world to fat/bitchy/fake/vile AW. Like him, many don't know this fact...........

She won’t lose the weight!
By Lynn Harris

Hi Lynn,
During the past six years, I have been involved in an on-again, off-again relationship with my college sweetheart. Time after time, we've gotten together and then decided to call it quits because of different circumstances. The real issue now is that over the years, she has gained more than 40 pounds.

I love her and could see myself with her for the long haul; however, her weight gain has really been a major issue in my not wanting to make a commitment to her. I have spoken to her about this issue a few times within the past few years, and I’ve gone as far as to write her workout plans, offer nutritional advice and advocate her making a lifestyle change. She isn't offended by my complaints, but aside from an occasional modest weight loss, she has regained the weight. I’m not shallow or using the weight issue to get out of the relationship: I'm worried about both the potential long-term health risks and, quite honestly, have become less attracted to her physically. Do you have any advice?
—Weight-Worried Waldo

Dear Waldo,
I suppose I could lecture you about how it’s “what’s inside that counts,” and about how some studies show that exercise and fitness are more important than (and often unrelated to) actual poundage when it comes to overall health and longevity. But honestly, my time would be better spent attempting to dismantle the size-ist bias of our society as a whole. (Working on it!) Because if you had been born during the Baroque period, you might be saying, “I’m not attracted to my girlfriend because she’s not fleshy and plump like those hotties in those paintings by that guy Rubens. What should I do?”

Just as I can’t tell you, “Well, get more attracted to her!” you can’t make her change herself. I can, however, help you with how you approach the issue with her. I know your recommendations (workout plans, nutritional advice, etc.) are nothing but sincere and clearly very constructive. But put her cross-trainers on your feet for a moment. If there were something difficult that you were trying to accomplish — get into law school, say — I’m not sure how effective it would be for someone, even someone you love and respect, to come at you waving LSAT workbooks and study schedules.

And just to up the ante, let’s say you had reason to believe that that someone’s love for you was contingent on whether or not you got into law school. That’s just the kind of pressure that might make you act out and not study.

So I think you need to let your girlfriend know that you want her to live — ideally, somewhere very, very close to you — for a very long time. And that she has your support in whatever she undertakes. And that you’re about to go for a nice walk to that farmer’s market with all the fresh fruit—would she like to come?

And then back off. Give her the sense that you’re not going to be hovering in her kitchen with a food scale; give her some time to do whatever she’s going to do. Turn your focus from her to you. What would it take to bring the love back? Is her losing weight the only thing? Are there evenings out you could plan? Are there fantasies you haven’t played out, perhaps; encounters that will bring back that college-lust feeling?

Once you’ve contemplated all this, you have to realize the bottom line: Are you willing to lose her over this? Ultimately, the decision is not on her scale, but in your hands. You need to take time to carefully answer that question—and let her know the answer.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lynn Harris is co-creator, with Chris Kalb, of the award-winning website, BreakupGirl.net and author of the comic novel Miss Media. A journalist and essayist, Lynn also writes about gender, relationships, and culture high and low for Salon, Glamour, the New York Times, and others. In her spare time, she enjoys being married. Submit your own relationship questions for Lynn at breakupgirl.net. Your question may be answered in a future column.

[Sinanju Master]

This broad knows that she has the dude by the short curlies AND that she doesn't need to lose the weight. What's her incentive when she knows that she has him dead to rights? His faithfulness is repaid with an attempt to look like a model for a Rubens painting! What he NEEDS to do is to let her catch him red-handed gawking at another, slimmer, HOTTER woman. Now THAT'S incentive! IF she truly wants him and once she realizes she may lose him to another woman (after all, aren't baracuda AW's fiercely COMPETITIVE?) she'll diet and exercise with all the dedication of a gladiator-in-training. Fuck the sensitive, supportive crap! He needs to turn the circumstances around by making it a life-or-death situation. If she still doesn't respond favorably, he still ends out ahead: he knows she didn't respect him (a no-no) and loses unnecessary baggage, freeing him to scope out better prospects. However, it's unlikely he knows he has BETTER options than picking through the trash on THESE shores.

[Chocha Monger]

This guy is wasting his time. Even if he got his little porker to lose the lard what is there to stop her from gaining it all back after he marries her? There is no hold harmless agreement when it comes to divorce in the US. Miss Piggy will be enraged if he marries her and then decides to get out of it because he no longer feels like humping a hog. She will cite things like his having wasted "the best years of her life" and her having borne "his children" then the judge will make the poor bastard pay and pay!

This guy thinks he can make this chick a fixer-upper. Life will teach him however that when you get something that has problems and try fixing it up you will only get more problems. Eventually he will wish that he had saved his time and money and gotten exactly what he wanted in the first place instead of playing Mr Fix It. What he doesn't realize is that if this chick goes out and gets some surgery and a personal trainer then turns out pretty decent, she will most likely start believing that she deserves better than him. Ever heard of the chick that gets surgery then all of a sudden starts cheating on the boyfriend that stuck around her formerly ugly or fat ass?

AWs don't compromise unless it's their last option. They hold out for Mr Right throughout their best years and only consider Mr Reality after the cellulite appears on their legs, the tits start sagging, and the crow's feet emerge around their eyes. And even then some refuse to admit that they are well past their prime. American men should learn to do the same. If they must hold out in their youth in order to save their money for early retirement overseas where they can have pretty fit spinners with good attitudes then they must be disciplined enough avoid straying off course.

[Starchild2012]

Well,

All said and done and i know you being in forefront of this thread and i read most of your post !!

I'm from asia and what baffels me, i say it again what makes me wonder is the quality of women and new teens appearing in xxx movies all over the net and there attitude and looks which are fabulous and they too are from america !!

Man only if i get a hand on any of these women, i know its some off topic in here, but im sorry im not able to bring myself to any conclusion about whats being written here about american women.

If american women are soooo low on charecter and attitude, then how the heck on this planet that these women come up with there lovely bodies and cute looks and ready to please there men !!

Who would in there sane mind will not dream of american women after they see porn on the net

see www.inthevip.net www.bangbros.com www.weneednewtalent.com and my favorite all time www.luckyman.com www.partyhardcore.com www.drunkhardcore.com www.milfhunter.com

Man, if you watch these sites, it would be impossible to even think an american women be what you all say for an outsider, they are sooo ready to please men, and i know how my country females would not even dare to bare all and please men the way these women doo...ohhhh god...in the next life atleast may i be born as a porn star for these women or atleast i will be happy if i be there pool cleaner for once pls plss plss god !!

Pal, whatever you say they work for money or are *****s or sluts or anything..but still they are well well over 60 percent of most women anywere in the world with there service !!

Please clear this incomprehensible contradiction in your post !! or am'i missing something...i read your post with most fervor..but this topic you have not mentioned anywere !!

Regards !!

[Hardbarg]

Is it just me, or has this thread wandered off to the totally surreal.

[Darkseid]

Born Loser,

These are the very few AWs that look good now and are rebelliuos but later on in life, they turn into fat prudes that write books AGAINST pornography and join the FCC, or they end up working in Nevada brothels (also as fat pigs with crows feet.) I met Terri Wiegel (who I loved in the 80s in her early films) at the Bunny Ranch II and boy is she way over the hill. She had bags under her eyes and a droopy chest and lovehandles. She also had the nerve to charge $2000 for an hour!!! That's right $2000 for ONE hour!!! with a former porn princess. I could fuck in Germany's FKK for $50 with a much better looking chick!!. There are some lookers in Nevada brothels but they also charge $2K+. Let's face it, AWs hold out on looks until they reach 30 then they droop!!! All of those actresses are no older than 28. Look up their profiles on the internet and you'll see. Then when they get out of shape, they disappear off the planet in a secret place called the Parent's Television Council (PTC) or the FCC, or they become prostitutes. And PAMs pay top dollar for pussy they can't normally get! So if you are from Asia, stay there if you are marriage minded. You'll NEVER find a marriageable AW. I am an Asian American and I love America but I would never marry here. Fortunately, Asian women marry men twice their age so I will be joining you in about 20 years or so when I retire. If you are young in Asia, travel to Europe or Australia where they like younger guys who are non-white and get some ass there. You'll find better looking girls then these fake breasted porn chicks on the site.

As for that poor soul with Miss Piggy, he'll be stuck screwing a fat chick for a short term relationship and then end up single or divorced when she becomes fit. I once fell for that trap and was Mr Fix It but once she got into shape and went to college, she joined a feminist Pow-Wow in the back-yard of a Women's Studies' classmate with Oprah playing in the background. (Sort of like the one in the movie "Guess Who" with bernie Mac and Ashton Kutcher). Month's later, she became fat again and I tried to fix her back up before the wedding but with no luck because she kept joining her new feminist friends from New York Looniversity.

[CBGBConnisur]

I have to say that not all Western countries are bad for guys, people who live in French speaking Canada, Western Europe, and Australia have a lot of options on the table compared to American and Anglo Canadian males. Western Europeans can easily run off to Eastern Europe, Australians are a stone's throw away from Southeast Asia. They get the time off necessary to embark on a trip abroad, I knew a British guy who went to Bulgaria for four weeks and came home with a beautiful wife. Its amazing how when I go outside North America that "IT girl" seems to be raining from the sky, the only problem then is which one do I pick?

[Bart9000]

I guess I will field this one. This question has come up before.

Just for starters, Party Hardcore is filmed in the Czech Republic.

The girls you are seeing on the porn-including "reality porn" such as "MilfHunter" are well paid actresses (a girl can earn in excess of 4 times the average family yearly income doing porn). The scenes are scripted, and controlled by a director.

In reality, I can tell you (knowing that the "farm league" for porn actresses is exotic dancers) that most of these girls you see (there are exceptions) were sexually abused as children, have substance abuse problems, are often more interested in sex with other women than men, and the men that they do exclusively date are (due to their emotional damage) pretty much scumbags-drug dealers, abusers, used car salesmen etc.

The United States has a wonderful propaganda machine in the popular culture that we export (including appearently porn). However, the reality of life here is about as similar to what you see in most films and television as your life is to films exported from Asia such as "Hero", and "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon". I'm exaggerating of course, but in spirit, what I am saying is true.

Something related-the area that I live in has many EE imigrants, mostly Serbian, Croatian, Slovak, For years, I had a bad impression of these places because the people I had dealings with were pretty much (and I really really hate to say this now) assholes. They are very cut throat, vicious, looking out for number one, bitter, you get the idea. I now know that the problem isn't where these people have come from, but that it is the effect of actual life here in the United States-as opposed to the bullshit fantasy dream they were fed back at home by the US media. I actually also see the same thing in progress with the Mexicans I work with-when they come up here they are generally polite, kind, humble, hardworking, nice...after a while of being up here, they have a propensity to turn into assholes. I for one, cannot blame them for becoming this way.

[Sinanju Master]

I was gonna immediately respond to BornLoser's post, but I was pressed for time and had to dash off to work. NOW, to said post... the women in the porn videos you see are ACTRESSES! Let that sink in BornLoser.... ACTRESSES! Some are victims of sexual abuse, or drug abusers, or cons. If you wanna hook up (sexually) with such a chick, then, by all means, jump in with BOTH FEET. Hell, there are a lot I'd love to fuck myself. HOWEVER, if you're seeking a quality woman who will be at your side through thick and thin and be a partner for life, then I'd strongly advise you to move in the opposite direction at MAXIMUM WARP! Remember, these women are ACTRESSES, and as such, they can and WILL fool you into thinking YOU are the ONE. Let's focus on AW's for a moment, since that is the subject matter of this board. AW's are actresses also. How any times have my bretheren heard of or seen AW's who have ensnared a guy with lots of sex, a hot-looking body and a wonderful personality in the beginning, only to slowly regress to their TRUE SELVES after the wedding? Their train of thought is: "I have him lock, stock and barrel now, so I don't have to maintain myself. If he complains, what can he do? I control the pussy supply and if he tries to stray to get some, I can take his ass to the cleaners. I can even fuck around on him and claim that his actions (or INaction) caused our marriage to fall apart AND I can get HALF OR MORE in the divorce proceedings". This outrageous behavior comes from the out-of-control feminist dogma that is so pervasive (and accepted almost WITHOUT QUESTION) in our society. Little girls already have a head start on boys relationship-wise, and they utilize their skills FULLY to their advantage as often as they can. By the time they get to their 30's and are now being eclipsed by younger competition, they show signs of wear and tear that are detrimental to their ability to snag a man to chew up and spit out. NOW they have to settle for what they can get. What they can NOW get is FAR from their ideal choice, so they settle. If, by chance, they meet a hunk on the street and get a chance to fuck him (and THEY WILL!) they will jump at the chance faster than a politician being offered a campaign contribution.

They ONLY difference between the porn actresses you so desire and AW's is thhat the porn actresses will ADMIT to doing it for money. So, BornLoser, if you want to marry an AW, PLEASE be my guest! When I hear your story in the future (a sad one, as I am certain it will be) you will have only YOURSELF to blame, because I and my brethern tried to steer you clear in the here and NOW.

Choose wisely, young padawan....

[Wheldon]

First Post. Finally upgraded membership.

What others here say is very factual. Your perception is based on media and propaganda. Anybody can look good if they spend enough $$$ for plastic surgery and boob augmenation. What you see on pornos and websites is NOT the typical average AW. I live in the midwest and also lived in California for several years. The typical AW is 1.) overweight 2.) uncultured 3.) don't know **** about sex 4.) expect to be spoiled by the man. I've been spending a lot of time in Czech Republic & Germany for business & vacations and I can tell you that the women there are much naturally prettier, friendlier, more educated, cultured and have great attitude.

Everybody has different opinions. You are more than welcome to pursue all the AW women you want. I think most on this forum probably share the sentiments.

[Chocha Monger]

I agree that asking for extras is a good way to discourage strippers who tend to be very pushy. They're used to getting guys in the backroom for a private dance where they grind their pussies on his cock, once the blood leaves his brain and heads for his cock they try to milk his wallet. Since the guy is horny he might not stop the dancer from going beyond the number of songs initially agreed upon. The girl will keep on going until he runs out of money. If he can't pay at the end the cops will appear on the scene.

Asking a pushy stripper if you can suck her nipples, finger or fuck her will usually make her back off a bit. Sometimes though it might backfire and the girl may actually give you a tempting price. However, most are looking for some easy money by giving your cock a tease in the "VIP" room.

As for foreign guys thinking American women are hot little sex-pots willing to please men, it is not uncommon among those who have not had the chance to visit the US and see for themselves. Our movie industry is extremely good at creating fantasy which also functions as propaganda when viewed abroad. The illusion dissipates rather quickly once these guys arrive here and run into real American women, so I think the fantasy is rather harmless. They get to enjoy the genuinely nice women in their countries and also get to beat off to perfectly sweet slutty American dream girls in porno videos.

[Dickhead]

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/manhattan/ny-bc-ny--toplesslawsuit1020oct20,0,2123920.story?coll=nyc-homepage-breaking2

Strip clubs are for losers, at least in the US.

[Chocha Monger]

DH,

You're right 241K USD would pay for a lifetime's worth of Marias in Buenos Aires. However, the real losers were that company's shareholders. Remind me to never invest in another corrupt US corporation. You'd think that people would learn after Enron and WorldCom.

I think that my money is relatively safe underneath my mattress. I plan to invest it in a fiscally responsible BA establishment like Blacks where I can get a good return on my Yanqui dollars.

[Starchild2012]

well, then the attitude of american women is no different than the women back home in my country india. thats why i seeked out outside and started seeing blondes and brunettes.

i guess grass is greener on the other side, indian women sucks, yeah !! you hear all stories of women supression in third world countries. the reality is when these women are given freedom like the women in west, they jump over a man's head and [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) over them....its the same kinda frustation that we are here going that you say you have experienced.

with the new kind of women revolution, its easy for a women to get job in any industry now a days, they get faster promotion, no one can have any arguments with an female employee here for the fear of being sued or fired by company.

they have a say in everything with there ego, well...i have one sentence for indian women ....they are takers not givers !!

american women or indian women, i have only found one solution to take these new age women !! and it works...!!

it's being said before here, i being reading doc love article at www.askmen.com and the only thing that have changed my life are his way of approaching women. i think its the only technique that can change a mans life !!!!!!!!!

[Sinanju Master]

BL5, if you had read my past posts as you had said, you would have come across my mentioning Doc Love's wisdom. I stand by it 100%. The situation for guys in the US or any of the "welathy nations" is that IF you want to marry a woman from foreign shores, tell her you want to live in HER COUNTRY! That way, if she is truly a baracuda, she will involuntarily display a moment's hesitation that will flush out her true intent. The grass may be greener, BUT each of us is conveying their own experiences to this board. One or two posters experiences may be a fluke, but there are MANY MANY MORE than that, which would lead one to believe there is a grain of truth in it. The sense of entitlement for women in this country is much more rampant, I believe, than ANYWHERE ELSE. If you ever DO marry an AW, by all means do not stray ONE BIT from Doc Love's advice. It will save you from heartache and a nonexistent financial standing.

[Rock Dog]

bl5,

just read your last post " the reality is when these women are given freedom like the women in west, they jump over a man's head and [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) over them!"

all i can say is, that sounds really familiar. one needs to constantly be aware that women are people too. they might be small and soft and pretty, but they can be just as ambitious, selfish and deceitful as any man. give anyone free range to go after what they want and most people will do just that. women are no different.

there appears to be a strong correlation between higher education, earning power and womens attitudes. once they get educated and start making their own money it's "fuck you charlie, i don't need you anymore!" they start getting really picky about every little thing, while expecting that the man should overlook her numerous imperfections.

if they can't make their own money, they often like to use marriage as a way of getting at a guys financial assets. the only thing holding them back are the laws in the different countries. over here, the laws are actually tipped in the womans' favor. i'm not sure what the laws are like in india, but i guarantee you're better off than we are.

as more and more countries modernize and standards of living improve, this attitude will continue to spread like a virus across the world.

rock

[Chocha Monger]

Rock Dog,

You're right about the feminist spreading their ideology like a virus throughout the world. I don't think that it is the increase in the countries' standard of living that brings this about though. Take Argentina for example, the standard of living there is quite reasonable and there are women in professions that require a high level of education but they do not have the hatred toward men found in North America. A woman's economic independence gives her the ability to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) on men if she so chooses, but it not the casual factor for this type of attitude.

The cause of man hating is radical feminism which teaches women that they have been and continue to be oppressed and exploited by men. Man is the enemy and he must be opposed and subdued at all costs. It is a war with the object of erasing everything that is masculine. Radical feminists from the West travel to developing countries with non-governmental organizations to spread their propaganda. They tell these "oppressed" women in foreign countries that they must rebel against everything their culture has taught them if they ever what to be "happy" and "successful" like their Western counterparts. Never mind that these oppressed women are often considered the core of the family and their husbands and children probably could not survive without them.

Well off families from other countries often send their children to universities in the US, Canada or the UK. There the young girls not only learn science or business, they also learn the ways of the women in those countries. They then return home feeling as though it is their duty to liberate their poor oppressed sisters. Some of them even found local organizations with this goal in mind.

I have not seen the hypocritical brand of "feminism" abroad that is prevalent in the US. American women are notorious for their having their cake and eating it too attitude. I have no problem with women who claim to be independent if they pay their own way. What I can't stand is these supposedly successful independent looking for a free lunch from men. After all if they don't need a man for anything then they should need his money either. Other women may marry a man to get financial support because they can't do better otherwise, but American women do it just because they can and they're greedy no matter how much they already have.

Ironically, independent women in this country are anything but that since they are always depending on someone to ask them out and to pay their way. They are on a constant search for men who can support them. They whine about equality but yet still clutch to old fashioned notions that a gentleman must pay a lady's way. Somehow, I don't see such hypocrisy getting very far abroad.

[Darkseid]

Sweden is another country to avoid in Europe. Take a look at this article:

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisla...page-bigpix2005

They also have a strong feminist agenda there as well:

(I found this on the website AmericanWomenSuck.com)

Source: www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1838453,00.html

I hope this ideology doesn't spread like gangrene to these neighboring countries!

I think as far as women's rights, women in India has FULL control of sex because of the strong religion there. They use this power against the men and can deny them sex. That is why a lot of porn shops are owned by Indian men in Times Square. However, one on them that I interviewed said that he thought American women were different sexually but after years of loneliness and rejection from these witches, he agreed with me that they are no different. It is the strong religious sentiment that empowers women with sexual control. We ourselves have a strong religious power- Bush so women have much more sexual power than we do here. It has been used as a weapon in the bedroom- "Honey, I can't do this, this is wrong before the eyes of God. We should do this after marriage." Then the sucker marries and whammo!!, he is like a fly that has fallen into the venus fly trap. Then when he tries to escape, he is taken to the cleaners and dies broke. Sweden is gaining with us and India in religious rights also. Check the top ten chruch going list.

[Chocha Monger]

while swedish chicks are a lot easier to screw than american chicks, they do worship everything american to a disturbing degree including radical feminism. swedish women seek to behave like men in the sense that they try to have casual sex without emotional attachment. this often leads to them having all kinds of emotional problems and being on anti-depressants and other psycho-active drugs. who do they blame for this? men. supposedly men are the ones who pressure women to have casual sex.

they are also into recovered memories of their fathers and other male relatives [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) them. you'd be surprised at how many young women in sweden are on disability benefits due to "stress" from these alleged assaults by male family members. the women there tend to be passive aggressive rather than openly aggressive like american women. it's very easy to get involved with psycho swedish chicks because they tend to be very polite on the surface.

in sweden it is illegal to buy sex but not to sell it. this stems from the large feminist influence on legislature which presumes that the woman is always the victim in prostitution and the man is the victimizer. the women's shelters are all run by radical feminists where they are encouraged to have nothing more to do with men. so beyond easy sex it is safe to say that they are not all that different from aw.

[CBGBConnisur]

Swedish women are hardcore feminists to the EXTREME but unlike AWs they might have sex with a "regular" guy. The reality is that the Western European woman who you thought is the woman of your dreams comes from an Eastern bloc country. I have traveled a lot to Europe in the more affluent Western parts the babes I have met are often from Eastern European countries.

Here's an article on a popular "Christmas" bonus for Australian workers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1723583.stm

[Rock Dog]

women, feminists and other politically correct bullshit.
that's what's pissing me off. i've been keeping an eye on things and have come to the realization that they all work the same way.

first, most of the things that are politically incorrect these days are things that women don't like. how did it get this way? simple, just think how girls work against each other in high school. pick someone (another girl) that you don't like. then check to see what her popularity is like eg. does she have lots of friends or connections. if she has no back-up, they start bad-mouthing her and making her more and more of a social outcast until the victory is complete.

this is the same principle that women have been using for the last 25 years! first, they pick someone (or something) that they know will have no support. deadbeat dads, drunk drivers, stalkers, sexual harassers, secondhand smoke, porn and any kind of prostitution. next, they put a negative label on whatever or whoever it is they want to take down. then they get politicians to pander to them passing legislation regulating, banning or outlawing whatever it is they want to get rid of.

it's like shooting fish in a barrel. i mean, who'd ever stick up for a drunk driver or a **** anyways? not me of course..... not anyone really. so every time they pick a fight, they know they've already won. the problem is, that it's gone so far now.

it used to be a sign of strength and determination when a guy wouldn't take no for an answer. now he's labelled a stalker, a harasser..... a social outcast. i remember back in the 70's, if a guy could score with lot's of girls, he was called a real ladies man. now he gets called a dog, or a womanizer. nobody used to care that much about secondhand smoke, until a bunch of women started crying about how it was hurting their kids.

i'm sure there are more examples of this strategy at work. they use it over and over again and it just seems to work every time.

rock

[Dickhead]

"Nobody used to care that much about secondhand smoke, until a bunch of women started crying about how it was hurting their kids."

Hated it since I was old enough to remember. Absolutely unrelated to gender. If you want to kill yourself, fine. Why do I have to put up with your unhealthy habits? My drinking and mongering and picking my nose does not affect your health. My smoking does, if it gets in your lungs. My drunk driving affects you. My reckless use of handguns affects you. If I chew gum with my mouth open, that is disgusting but does not harm your health.

[Rock Dog]

I myself am a non-smoker..... and I enjoy the smoke-free air when I go to restaurants and other public places. I wasn't trying to defend smoking but rather to illustrate the effectiveness of this female strategy that is being employed over and over again.

Even as a non-smoker, I do have some sympathy for those I call the "tobacco exiles". Regular people who have to huddle outside on the sidewalk in all weather conditions so they can have a smoke.

DH, you use drunk driving as an example...... perfect. Why not have one punishment that completely solves the problem? It doesn't happen though does it? That's because the politicians increase the punishment every few years to milk the most political benefit out of their pandering to the feminist lobby groups.

How about prohibition? Are you against having a drink once in a while? That whole mess was largely instigated by women. The same thing with all the anti-prostitution laws.

Rock

[Dickhead]

"How about prohibition? Are you against having a drink once in a while?"

No, I'm a raging alcoholic. But I don't drive drunk. I don't drive at all any more, really.

"That whole mess was largely instigated by women. The same thing with all the anti-prostitution laws."

These are much better analogies.

[Rock Dog]

I wasn't trying to defend any of those other activities.... in fact the whole reason that this strategy is so effective is because they pick targets that ARE so indefensible. That's is what guarantees them a win every time.

It's not just alcohol and prostitution either. They've been doing everything they can to suppress/attack the porn industry as well. Ask the average guy about porn and you might get a grin.... or at worst, a look of mild distaste. Ask a woman the same thing and they almost invariably act disgusted. You might get a similar reaction from a guy, but only if there's some women around :D.

You could say pretty much the same thing about prostitution. Over 99% of all women absolutely hate it. Because it degrades women? Yeah right..... whatever. More likely because they don't like competing against a substitue that reduces their leverage over men.

How about this very website? How long do you think WSG would last if Oprah and the feminist hordes REALLY set theirs sights on us? Being a member here is one of my deepest, darkest secrets. But, it's also interesting, entertaining, informative and even fun. I enjoy the open, honest non-PC opinions and discussions that go on here. I don't want to live in a beige, vanilla flavored ultra-safe yet boring world....... and that's the kind of world we're heading for.

Fred Reed, a professional writer, has some awesome articles at his website that say it a lot better than I can.

Rock

[Chocha Monger]

If American women could have their way each and every member of ISG would be hunted down and incarcerated in the Federal pen. Try telling them that you are one of the men that would actually pay less than your entire net worth for pussy. Tell them that you've paid twenty dollars or less for better pussy than what they're offering, I seriously doubt that you would make it back online to post their reactions.

You see anyone who chooses to pay for pussy at a fair price with no strings attached is considered a pervert of the worst kind in this country. Oh no, you can never put a price on that! If the price of pussy was defined in America it would cause a revolt. Women here believe that they must be catered to and maintained by men because they have something between their legs of indefinite value. Anything which seeks to debunk that myth seen as an attack upon their power base, the sex supply. Yes, Rock Dog as a monger you are exactly what these women would like to string up and make an example of for all to see.

The attack on cross-border mongering is gaining momentum. Every now and then there are news specials on TV seeking to expose professional men with high social status who travel abroad for sex. Rock Dog, they're digging for your deepest and darkest secrets.

[Yogin]

Well-said, Rock.

I live in Portland, and on most issues am unapologetically liberal. Yet I sometimes feel like the only one in this otherwise great town who sees the ugly irony when religious conservatives get in bed with self-described (not my definition anyway) liberal feminists as they unite to crush the sex industry.

Being a member here is my little secret too, & I"m sure many who know me would be aghast.

All my relationships over the past ten years, LT or ST, have been with native-born Asians, NOT Asian-Americans, as they are no different from any other AW. Very happy with my Japanese GF right now. Can't imagine getting with another AW.

[Sinanju Master]

If it were ever found out I were a member of this forum, my reaction would be: "So. What's your point"? Why should I be ashamed of not caving into the Feminist juggernaut? Why should I be ashamed of voting my money with my feet? Why should I be ashamed of having a backbone and refusing to eat shit sandwiches doled out by AW's? And, yes, if I were on Oprah as the guest and the ISG were the topic, I'd tell it like it is. What's the worst that could happen? AW's will have a negative view of me and turn up their noses at me because I'm not good enough for them? Gasp! Wait! That already transpired. They would marshall their resources to smear me, while guys, single AND paired would scratch their heads and actually THINK about what'd I'd said. They'd realize that they are sick and tired of taking shit for mediocre sex that comes at too high a price. I won't apologize for being a MAN!

[Monger#77]

What do you guys think of this? This guy says that as far back as 1970 the women in Austria, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine, and Russia were complete witches; basically there is no difference between them and American women, and he recommends for me to do anything but spending money to go have sex with these women. Read below:




I am originally from Europe, Austria and now living in Japan since 1976. I am married - Japanese wife - never divorced, my two daughters are grown up already.

My experience in Europe about girls is particularly bad. I myself had always a regular job, never in prison, owning my own apartment and as a young person I was really thinking it will be easy to find a nice girl just from 'beginning' on.

To make it short, I never managed it even to a regular girl-friend - not to talk about family life. - Today I know, that I was an idiot - chances to find a nice girl in Europe as a man with a stable life and family planning are small.

Women in Europe are greedy, demanding, looking for advantages solely out of the fact, that they are women. The invoice out of that pays the man.
What counts, is not the man or his good intention, but his money, his lifestyle and maybe his big mouth.

What I have seen in Europe is the fact, that many women are nothing but a no-good and a liar.

I married a Japanese women and moved out to Tokyo - with no intention ever to return. I think, this was the best decision of my life.

I met quite a few men in Eastern and Southeastern Asia sharing my opinion. About my future, I will continue to work in Tokyo and later on retire with my wife in Thailand, where I own 2 apartments.

I am not a woman-hater (my wife is complaining, that I love women too much!) - but I am an anti-feminist. -
I strongly dislike women, whose only purpose to exist is to claim advantages, solely out of the fact, that they are females.

The female dominated society, we have in Europe is more than questionable and needs to be challenged. Feminism has nothing to do with equality, but it is an ideology, how to cheat any man for any reason whatever, regardless to his intention. It is an overall man-hating movement.

When signing up to this forum, I expected a little site, with some few posters and some trolls. I am surprised to see, how many men are standing up to complain about feminist ideology.

Some legal rights, women enjoy in Europe, are ridiculous. Basically said, any connection towards a man is considered to be a business, and divorce is also considered to be a business.

I cannot complain about my present situation. Living in Japan and Thailand, really I feel, women are much nicer than in Europe. It is rare to hear a woman here using vulgar language complaining about men.
Here in Asia feminism is not the favorite subject among females. Asian women remain generally very honest.

I like to hear more about the feminist subject from members of this forum. It seems, feminism is related somewhat only to white middle-class women in Europe and the USA.

Best regards to everybody

Yohan




Guten Tag. Another European man who had a hard time with European women? I was in Germany for a year and had a good time fucking the girls there. It's hard to imagine. Of course, I am Sheisse auslander. So maybe that makes a difference. :D
Wilkommen und viel spass.




Thanks for your comment.
All what I can say about, it is the best you have nothing to do with these European women at all. Let them alone.

You were there only one year, no intention to settle down, you did not consider family life. If you come from the States, it looks maybe nice for you at the first moment, plenty of women from Eastern Europe and cheap fuck. But all these women are basically worthless for a long term relationship.

I say it again, my personal impression is, not to have anything to do with such women at all. - That is the best!
Do not waste your time there, use your money for anything better, offer your affection to somebody else. Stay off these Euro-trash-girls!




Another guy from Denmark:




Hello everybody, I'm from Denmark .

I have been single most of my life.

People have always told me that I was to nice to the women, but how can being nice to people be a bad thing.....?

I have just been brainwashed to think that everything women did and said was the truth, but no more....... I have woken up and seen the light, partly by my on experience and partly by the use of the Internet and sites like this.

When I was a young man I was very sorry that I could not find a girlfriend, but now I know how lucky I am. I god a good job that i like, a good and cheap apartment, and I am free to do whatever I want as long as it is legal.

Only one of my male friends are married (I don't envy him, she is fat and got a big mouth). The others are divorced, paying alimony, and only seeing there children one week-end every two weeks

And I share Nice Guys experience with Japanese lady's. Last time I was in Japan, I had only been on Japanese ground for one hour, when I had made an appointment fore a date with an attractive, feminine woman. It's been more than two years since I had one with a danish woman.........
Japanese woman like men, and they appreciate a man's attention. Something that the “strong and independent” danish woman don't.

But to H... with them, the western women are useless.........

[Chocha Monger]

Tyhigs77,

I am afraid that I must agreed with the Euro guys who think that their women are worthless for long-term relationships. Now, I am not saying that these women are bad for a quick fuck. No, not at all. They are actually quite good for this purpose, so if you want to fuck a lot of cheap pussy with lots of variety Europe is not bad at all. However, if you're talking about finding a wife then it's an entirely different matter.

Recently I met a guy from Europe who had to sell three houses just to get rid of his wife in a divorce and he pays her child support for a kid who he does not get to see at all. I guess liberal attitudes toward sex does not necessarily a good wife make. Apparently, they can be just as vindictive and greedy as American women with the laws being the enabling factor. In fact, marriage has sharply declined in Scandinavia due to the strong bastions of feminism there.

If you look at the statistics for unfaithfulness and lying amount women in Europe, I am sure you will find some indications as to why the guys feel the way that they do about this matter. The true measure of a woman's honesty is what she does to a man after she has him by the balls!

[Frequent Flier]

In an earlier post someone made a reference that as women in the USA became more independent they would start to prefer woman over men. Using men only as a way to become pregnant. Well the future is here.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9823452

[Sinanju Master]

I can only speak for myself regarding your post. I interact with AW's (in a platonic manner) quite well, since I don't expect anything from them AND at times, I catch them staring at me the way a guy stares at a woman he wants to bed. The most common example is when I'm on my delivery route and I encounter receptionists. It's when the Platonic line is crossed that things go awry. As for being bald, I shave my head and women have actually stared at it in fascination. Two even came out and asked me if they could touch it.

[Sporadic]

Some quotes from Marak5...

I have met a lot of mongers in my trips. Most of them are fat, middle aged or old, balding, and cheap. ...I am young, 24 years, and I can see why women do not like you for the most part. Youre always complaining, want women to cater to your every need (sex), and want it as cheaply as possible. Pretty much always counting pennies. Broad strokes you are painting here my young forum-mate. Certainly not everyone fits this stereotype?

I contend that you can have a fun time attending American strip clubs. The key to this is be as rude, crude, and obnoxious as possible...Tonight I spent about 1 hour in one and had a blast! I did not have to pay cover charge though which runs 20 dollars. I also spend 7 dollars on a diet coke. Total amount spent = 7 dollars.Obnoxious and cheap? Tsk, tsk. Why the Diet Coke?

I sat there alone for about 20 minutes sipping on my coke and got no attention. The girls were sitting with each other just talking also. Felt like a strip club in sex prison when you want to spend money and still get ignored.How could you not get any attention? You are young, not bald, not fat, not cheap!

If I ask a hooker for a session and she turned me down Id be somewhat pissed, I can do that in a normal club.Ditto

I am just a lurker on this side but I say ban...Personally I do see this site and a private club and he does not fit in around here. I don't share information about my hobby with some of my closest friends in real life so this an outlet for me. He just ruins that.Opinionated, judgemental and full of self pity, all in only 24 years. Congratulations!

Cheers,

Sporadic

[Darkseid]

Marak5, I also do not fit the stereotype of the bald, fat, and cheap mongerer. I am an Asian guy that looks like Russell Wong but shorter and bulkier (in a muscular sense). I happen to CHOOSE the mongering life because it brings variety. However, some bald and fat mongerers do anything without a penis on 2 legs. Other fat, bald and old mongerers have much stricter taste. I have stricter taste in women so I would turn away prostitutes if they are fat or ugly like most of the ones in Nevada. In my whole Nevada trip with a tour guide mongerer, I only did 2 women because the ones that were affordable were ugly, fat or old. The better looking ones charge a ton of money for their pussy (over $300 AND I MEAN REALLY OVER $300 like $1000 in Sherry's Ranch or $5000 from a chick named Carerra in Wild Horse). One of the women was Asian and the other was Latina. The Asian charged $200 for an hour and the Latina charged $150 for a half an hour.
I do most of my mongering now in South America and Europe (Asia is a bit too far for me). They have model looking women for $50 USD ($60 in Germany's FKK after conversion from Euros).
As for the relationship topic, the only AWs I had a great time with were ones in Nevada but I only stick around for the "dog and pony" show and skip the sexless and nagging LTR and marriage part (because I meet them on vacation). The rest of the AWs I don't even bother with. For Euro girls, I half agree with Tyhigs, we have to split them up in 2 groups thanks to Sweden and their feminism. Western bloc Euro girls are great for STRs because they give great sex but also have the sentiment of cleaning guys out if the marriage doesn't work. I would avoid marrying these but I would like to date them on vacations for STRs. Germany is the borderline in-between. The Easten bloc girls are good for both STRs and LTRs/marriage becasue they are great in bed and they are humble. They also make good housewives but I don't really look for that in a wife. I look more for the humble and accept anything given to them by me without nagging part. My capoiera teacher was divorced from an AW (thank goodness it was a short marriage with no kids or else he has to pay child support) and is now happily married and STILL happily married to a Russian woman he met online (sort of an online Russian bride catalog which is the way to go if you prefer marrying Caucasian). So I agree Western bloc European girls are bad for LTRs but I still think Eastern bloc women are good for marriage or LTRs.

[Doctor_Skank]

So what exactly are we men looking for in a LTR?

What is our ideal LTR?

The only LTR that would work for me would be one that allowed me to bang other chicks on the side and you will be hard pressed to find any woman who will go for that.

I am sure you can find great women nearly everywhere for LTR if you are willing to give them fidelity and honesty and love and all those other things a women desires... plus of course enough money to support a good lifestyle.

Are Euro women good for LTRs? Damn right! Slavic women? You bet... they'll give everything and anything to the man that gives them what they ...rightfully... expect in a LTR.

Point is, the very fact that you are reading this post suggests that you arent able to offer the women much in a LTR because you like to fuck around. Maybe women in general, or AWs in particular made you like that. Maybe the reason I love fucking around is becuase I didnt get much play in high school or whatever... who knows.

Like many guys on WSG/ISG, I simply love to fuck hot women, so I avoid any sort of LTR, as LTRs are by their very nature binding and restrictive both emotionally and physically.

Most LTRs dont work because we cant handle the lack of freedom. We are wolves. We cant simply blame everything on women.

[Yogin]

Thanks for the shallow idiotic stereotype, punk. I'm in my mid-40's, in far better shape than most guys half my age, have no problem getting dates, & women in their 20's flirt with me all the time. I know how to please women in bed and enjoy doing so, & they call ME for encores. I don't want or need a slave, in or out of bed. But at the same time, I'll never again be pussy-whipped. One time was too many.

I could easily bed AW's with frequency. But I choose to date exclusively Asian women for all the obvious & oft-repeated reasons.

[Dickhead]

Perfect STR: Squirt. See ya!
Perfect LTR: Squirt, squirt, squirt, squirt. See ya!

[Doctor_Skank]

You are a genuis bro! :)

[Darkseid]

i agree, as i said, i chose this lifestyle because i love fucking around and i can't commit to one chick so that is why i have so many strs and one ltr engagement that was blown off by a feminist. yes, a feminist made me that way and i am afraid to commit. i also see how miserable my married co-workers are and how much in debt they are and they make the same income as i do but i saved my money (and even lost some in the stock market) and still come out ahead of my co-workers. i even could see other places besides the reason of mongering for the purpose of seeing the world. i can't do that married with children.

one of my married co-workers asked me why i am not married and asked if i was gay. i responded, "sure i am gay. i am gay because i am not miserable and stuck like you to a nagging wife that weighs over 200 pounds. i am gay that i am not in debt and backpaying credit card bills and other utility bills because you have to pay a mortgage on time. i pay my mortgage in full and all my bills in full. i am gay and proud. soon you'll be gay too in seven years after that fat nagging wife of yours leaves you and butt [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) you in divorce court. ouch, painful at first but after years of getting your ass cleaned out with 2 large dildos called alimony and child support you'll end up hating women and you'll end up gay also, not like i but in the other sense of the term."

[Travelhappy]

Beyond the disillusionment with western girls on their own soil and the whole mongering thing.

Are American and Canadian women "different" when they're spending a week or two at an all-inclusive open-bar resort?

Stories anyone?

[Chocha Monger]

Guys,

I smell a rat. Take a look at Sporadic's post, he makes a good point about all the contradictions. Don't take the bait.

[CBGBConnisur]

I would take Yohan's comments with a grain of salt, he said he has two grown up daughters with his Japanese wife, so he met her in different times. I have found Japanese and women from other rich Asian countries to be as arrogrant as females from the US and Canada. Western European women are a bit better as they are more likely to have sex with you for the heck of it, although for a better and more intimate relationship, women from Eastern Europe are more likely to be better candidates for marriage, the same with Asian women, Southeast Asian women are nice, so are South Americans. Don't always aim for "modern" women from these societies.

[Yogin]

I think Asian women have a healthy relaxed view of sex, in my experience. I've had some very cool NSA sex with a good number of Japanese, Cambodian, & Chinese ladies.

[Sinanju Master]

Let me give you an example of what a lot of us are talking about. While in Psych class in college, our professor asked the ladies what they would think of a man (whom they were on a date with) who didn't take them out to an expensive dinner and all the things that come with it. 100% of them pretty much said that they wouldn't see him again, because he's too cheap (the FIRST perceived flaw they listed) among other things they listed as reasons NOT to go on a second date with the hypothetical guy. My Psych professor then put these money-hungry baracudas in their place AND he exposed them as the inflexible, joyless cunts that they are by asking them: "What if the guy was a chef and he prepared a lavish home-cooked meal for you and afterwards, he took you out on the town to do things that were fun, but cost next to nothing? " I saw SO MANY of these gold-diggers lowering their eyes in shame at having been BUSTED that I almost laughed out loud. THAT is the typical experience a lot of us have with AW's. The sense of entitlement (without reciprocation) is outrageous. I have standards of beauty that are flexible, because some women have changed my perception of them from my INITIAL perception. I've heard (and read about) some women state their REQUIREMENTS for a guy that were so UNREALISTIC (does that word sound familiar to you?) that it makes me wonder if they are truly from this planet. Also, where mongering is concerned, professionals are JUST THAT; PROFESSIONALS. They are in the game of customer service, and if they get a client they aren't particularly attracted to, they would do well to put aside their personal tastes in order to gain a reputation that will give her MORE clients. If I have the money to purchase something, I want the best for my money and value. If they don't want to sell to me, fine, someone ELSE will fill that need and THEY will get my business. If I ever married an AW, you can bet your ass that I'd have SEVERAL secret bank accounts, an alternate residence, and an updated passport. As fucked up as it is, the woman truly controls the relationship, and a man's attention to detail (or lack thereof) will determine whether or not he becomes a pauper with a yoke on his back. As for being bitter (I'm not nearly as bitter as I USED to be) I harbor a small amount for treating past AW's with courtesy, kindness and respect only to be repaid with being treated like a doormat. To add insult to injury, they would exhibit indignation that I wanted a relationship with them instead of just "being there as a friend" for them to cry on my shoulder when some assole bad boy would shit on their hearts. I don't vent everday like I did a couple years ago, but I think I've earned my right to sling shit at AW's. The day they decide to act sane and play fair, I'll dismantle my "shit catapult".

[Cebu Local]

I love collecting stories where AW get screwed.This being applicable only in countries where the law is Male Friendly.A Canadian friend of mine living in Manila was married to an American Woman.Thank goodness He had the common sense to have a prenup and get married under Philippine law in the Philippines.To make a long story short,She was playing around behind his back,but this is not the US,So He arranged to have her arrested under the Philippine anti Adultery laws which only apply to cheating females.She was promptly arrested and after 2 weeks in a filthy Philippine jail,She posted bail only to have herself arrested by Bu of Immigration people as a undesirable alien and stuffed into the FILTHIER immigration jail.Think 10-15 people per cell no air conditioning,rats everywhere etc.This time,There was no bail while your case runs,in this case which may drag 2-3 years.She basically signed over all her share to my friend to drop the case after 4 months in the BID detention center and asked for voluntary deportation from the Philippines from where she is PERMANENTLY blacklisted from returning.Since my friends main assets are here,She is screwed and her lawyer told her that American courts have no jurisdiction over a CANADIAN in the PHILIPPINES.Btw My friend is currently happy with his second wife,A filipina who is basically giving him a life of bliss

[Sinanju Master]

I LOVE a bedtime story with a happy ending!

[RonnyRon]

pardon me for asking then, why the hell are you paying for sex if you're such a huge stud? why are you even posting on internationalsexguide? this board is about paying for sex. if you are such a ladies man, you do not need this site!

here's a better question. if, you are 24 years old and actually like aw, why are you on this site???


and my post is not a stereotype. i just got back from costa rica and i was really amazed at how disgusting most mongers are. most mongers are not in shape. most mongers are old, fat, bald, and just not attractive to women. meanwhile, most mongers think they deserve a hot fine young women in their bed providing excellent blow jobs, anal sex, and high energy sexual performances. most mongers just have completely unrealistic standards and are total hypocrites. would most guys on this site consider dating their female equivalent? a middle age women, overweight, with fading looks?! yeah right!

hold on there young buck! i just turned 40 last week. i am not balding. i am not gay like mr. sulu from star trek just disclosed to the world. never been married and don't have any kids that i know of, but this i do know. you have much to learn! my favorite playground is rio. in fact i going for my 3rd time this year in a week. i am 6', 210 bls and in shape. if, i could find suitable, attractive, rational women my age, i cared to date here in the us, i would. the women here are the ones who have completely unrealistic standards.

i have posted 4 photos below. the 1st one is me with a lovely young brazilian women draped around my neck, naked no less. (eat your heart out). how many guys can say they have experienced that, let alone provide evidence? the next one is a photo of an overweight aw who is actually attempting to sale herself as an escort in the bay area.the 3rd is a 44 year old brazilian escort. the 4th allows you to compare foreign women to the typical 30-40 year old aw. now you tell me, which would you chose to f**k??? i don't know about you, but i chose the brazilians every time! by the way, where are your photos or report from cr or were you there only to do research on the mongers who were there?

ronnyron

[Sinanju Master]

You just confirmed what I have been thinking for a long time. Sometimes I look at escort sites to see what is being offered and the things I see are enough to make one toss his lunch! The photo of the type of chick (who could well be a character in Herman Melville's most famous novel) is quite common. The description is either BBW (Big Beautiful Woman), Rubenesque, Lots of Curves, Thick or what have you. ALL descriptions translate into: "FAT". On top of that, they feel that they are like water in the middle of the Sahara. I could go on, but you get the gist of my post.

[Ezinho]

And my post is not a stereotype. I just got back from Costa Rica and I was really amazed at how disgusting most mongers are. Most mongers are not in shape. Most mongers are old, fat, bald, and just not attractive to women.

LOL, if this isn't a stereotype then I don't know what is!

Seriously though, this may be true in San Jose, Costa Rica aka Gringolandia (I've never been there so I can't say for sure) but you should probably visit more locations before you make a statement like the one above.

Just to put things in perspective, I went to Fortaleza in the Northeast of Brasil last July, and when I was at the pick-up clubs at Praia de Iracema (Europa, Kapital, etc.) I couldn't believe the mongers that were there; not only were they clean cut and stylish, wearing designer labels, but I swear, the average age was about 25. I felt like I was at a frat party back in college or something!

So I don't think you can go to Costa Rica once and then make a general statement like that about all mongers. And now that I think about it, even when I was in Rio I had been noticing a younger and younger mongering crowd. Has anyone else noticed this in their travels? And what do you think this says about the future of relationships between western men and women when even young, good-looking guys have to go abroad to meet quality women?

[Mike12]

This Week

Getting off the train a bunch of nice looking blondes all walking with luggage towards some stairs on the platform during rush hour. Classy looking older gent in a suit stops to offer assistance just as I was about to. The lead blonde sticks a hand in his face to halt him and petty slaps his hand away. I just kept steppin.

Was exiting a door near an elevator on the 4th floor and held it open for a chick and got no acknowledgement. No big deal. She then stalks over to the elevator and presses up silently. Elevator opens after a short while and I am left there looking stupid while she steps in and goes up, while then I press the down button. This happened a few times already for it to be really saying something about women. Never any problems like this with dudes.

Walk all the time past a Thai restaurant near work. See the same Thai or Asian chicks in there every day rollin silverware doing chores sitting down looking outside. They see me enough to recognize me I figure so I give a little recognition wave and they look rite through me like I don't exist. Now I'm a big young guy, so whats up? If that was in Thailand damn sure it wouldn't go down like that. Sometimes walking down whole blocks and avenues I gotta pinch myself to see if I am like Bruce Willis in Sixth Sense. Lots of rolled eyes, averted gazes, and cold looks, even sometimes if my head turns in a girls direction. Meanwhile all the gay dudes walking their dogs got no problem seeing me, unfortunately.

Was checking out the new Brazilian pornos in a shop on 8th ave. This hood Rican dude all hoodied down and doo-ragged up came in with a little blonde princess type. Said real loud "wheres the boothes I need this ***** to give me some mother!@@# brain rite now". The Indian attendant said no you cant go not allowed. The dude is pushing her in there talking " I'm gonna !@@
this ***** in her ass rite now up against the wall here". She looks embarassed as all eyes are on them and says lets wait till we go home. So they leave and the Indian dude looks at her says something, I look at her and say "you found yourself a real prince there" another dude is like "can I get some too".

[CBGBConnisur]

I know how it is, the indescribably barbaric behavior of New Yorkers, people in other parts of the world, think the typical New Yorker is a sophisticated person who lives in a fancy apartment and is well educated, in reality this represents 5 percent of the population. I used to belong to the bottom 95 percent who toil each day to keep the bastards at the top 5 percent up on my shoulders. I am glad I don't live in New York and am happy I no longer live in America, because everywhere I go in the US its becoming like New York with all that hip hop shit.

[Dickhead]

I am not fat or bald either, and I stay in shape, but I can't help getting older. Getting older is okay if you consider the alternative. Marak, you will be older one day too. Oh, wait a minute; with your attitude, probably not.

I'm just another well-educated white collar professional who said fuck these women and fuck the religious right and fuck the rat race and did something about it. I have a lot of AWs as friends, some of whom I also fuck, but they know exactly where they stand, and they are in their 40s and 50s. Younger American women are pretty much a waste of skin.

Where I live now, the hookers are nice and polite and feminine. I've run close to 100 through my apartment and they don't take without asking, don't use the phone without asking, rinse out their drinking glasses after they use them, and most of them don't leave a mess in the bathroom.

One time one asked me for a pen. I got one from the table by the phone, and she used it at the kitchen table. Later I looked for it on the kitchen table and it wasn't there. I thought, "dang, that chica took my pen." Nope. She had put it back on the table by the phone where she had seen me get it from. Shit like that.

PS regarding cheap, Marak went to Buenos Aires and stayed in a hostel.

[Long Stroker]

Soldier's Tour Of Duty Is Tearing At His Marriage

Abigail Van Buren, Thu Oct 27

DEAR ABBY: I'm an American soldier serving in Iraq. When I went on leave for two weeks to see my family, I found out that my wife had posted a profile in a chat room on a public Web site. When I asked her about it, she denied it. When I showed her what I had found, she confessed.

I wouldn't have been upset, but she lied to me -- besides, the profile presented her as single. It included a picture and information about how she looks and what she's "looking for." This has really put a dent in our marriage. I can't trust her, particularly from over here. She claims it was a one-time thing because she was bored.

I don't want to leave her and my three daughters, but now I have no trust in her whatsoever. It's tearing me up inside. Everything she does I question, and it's wrecking our marriage. I want to trust her, but what should I do? Please help me. -- SSG HURTING IN IRAQ

DEAR SSG HURTING: Until your tour of duty is over, your most important priority must be your own safety. That means you must develop tunnel vision for a while and think of nothing but yourself and your mission. For now, accept what your wife says. Time and distance can do strange things to people's relationships, and there is nothing more stressful than what both of you are experiencing right now.

If your daughters are being well taken care of, accept that for the time being. When your tour of duty is over, there will be time to deal with this -- through marriage counseling or spiritual counseling. So listen up: Please trust me and stay strong.

[CBGBConnisur]

That goes to show the level of appreciation that American women have towards American men, absolutely none.

[Rock Dog]

Someone mentioned recently that we, as a group, must be losers or somehow undesirable to women.... otherwise we wouldn't need to choose mongering as a means of having sex.

If the recent replies to this accusation are any indication, this accusation is false. Being unable to get laid is only one of many reasons why we ISG/WSG members go out and do it. Personally, I like the feeling of empowerment I get by being able to choose the girl I want..... and have her when I want.

I am over 40 now, and it's true that I wouldn't otherwise get laid anywhere near as often. However, I'm in pretty good shape physically (over 6 ft and 195 trim). I have a sense of humor and I make a pretty good living as well. I also have a very attractive younger wife who is quite good in bed. But, as bad as it sounds, I absolutely NEED some variety. Since it's not socially acceptable for me to have multiple wives or a bunch of girlfriends on the side, I choose to make good use of the local massage parlors from time to time.

Again I repeat, many of us are not old, fat, bald or ugly. We don't do this just to have sex, we do it to have BETTER sex.

Rock

ps. the older the bull, the stiffer the horn

[Moore]

Yes it does seem that Marak5 is a rat. He has been indirectly accused of being one on the Argentina board as well. Here is one of his recent posts from there:

"I am noticing this when I take viagra every night. The first night I am hard as a rock for like an hour. Then by the second and all subsequent nights, the effect is much less for me. Maybe I just need to take a pill every other night rather than every night. Anyone else experience this when taking a viagra every night?"

24yo and taking viagra every night huh?

Are you sure you´re not the old, bald, fat, cheap loser that you write about? Or are you possibly an American woman? Whatever, apparently you´re full of shit.

[Chocha Monger]

As a young handsome monger who has no problem boning the odd American woman from time to time, I would like to point out that the stereotype of the old bald fat toothless monger is highly inaccurate. I stumbled upon WSG now ISG many years ago but back then it was only a curiosity because I had no intention of becoming a monger. Sex was plentiful albeit with some drama involved.

Today, the sex is still readily available but I have lost my taste for the dramatic. I have no wish to deal with vindictive females who are pissed off because they granted me admission to their vaginas with the expectation that I would resign myself to a life of servitude. American women play extensive games before giving up their pussies except when picked up in bars. When they finally give it to a guy they tend to think that it gives them certain rights to get involved in the guys life. They also tend to have elaborate schemes on getting guys to commit. When these schemes fail it is not unusual for many of these women to go on a psycho rampage.

For the above reasons I find it much simpler to monger. The entire process is transparent and no one has to get their feelings hurt. I don't have to pretend that I'm in love with the girl and she doesn't have to pretend that she is interested in anything more than my money. There is no fear that I'll might be getting a call about a missed period. No one calls me asking why I haven't returned their calls, there are no bricks being thrown through my windshield. If you ask me that is a good a reason as any to pass up the freebies and pay for what you want even when you're not old bald toothless fat and ugly.

[Bart9000]

Regarding Mike 12's second story:

It occurs to me that somewhere in the world is a bright, educated, hardworking, kind, generous, faithful, friendly, guy who is lonely, bored, and pathetically stroking himself......meanwhile "princess" can't get enough of that piece of shit...to the point where she will endure public humiliation.

Regarding our recent controversy, granted, there are some cheap nasty scummy sleazy guys involved in "the hobby'-however, there are others who are not. I only have myself to hold up as an example.

"Cheap"-A pretty young prostitute in the course of things, kindly "comped" for me an extra service that is generally compensated by about $25 (worth about $100 in spending power to her). Afterwards, with nothing more to gain, I insisted on paying her.

"Unattractive" (or whatever)-I am no pinnacle of physical perfection (I'm 34 with thinning hair, and 20 more pounds to lose), or a smooth ladies man for that matter. However, I just started a new job, and of the dozen or so young (20-22 year old) girls I just met, AT LEAST 2 (one 20 and plain, the other 22 and kinda hot) are into me (jury is still out on a couple others). Now, whether or not I can successfully navigate the 10,000 land mines I have to pass to have sex/a relationship with an American girl are an entirely different story......

Let me close on a very truthful statement......"P4P-It's the only 100% honest way to get laid"

That is all,

Bart9K

[Mike12]

Friend of mine lives near a major army base down South. He works out all morning at a gym where he is about the only guy in there. Says the woman are all over him, military wives, all kinds. Has them calling him up, wanting to hang out etc. He looks like he just stepped out of a Jay-Z video so they all are transfixed by his bullshit and want to have fun/sex. meanwhile their husbands are in Iraq and Afghanistan. He told me he is avoiding one chick because her husband is special forces and he feels guilty about the situation.

I find it interesting that the husbands are out there being real American heroes in combat situations meanwhile the wives are secure at home looking to live on the edge with guys they perceive to be exciting because they look like they just stepped out of a music video where they wave fake guns and are really homothugs.

[Sinanju Master]

Mike12, I remember listening to a radio station one time and some rapper got into some serious heat with the Law 'cos he carried a piece (unregistered, I believe) in his car. The dj's then trashed said stupid rapper because he complained about being harrassed by the Law. Basically, they were saying: "If you go around strapped, EXPECT TROUBLE". ON TOP OF THAT, this guy was more than likely a pussy when he wasn't playing a thug. I've recently likened AW's to moths: they are attracted to things that catch their eye, even that which may present a mortal danger to them, like a flame.

[Sporadic]

Mike12,

IMHO this (infidelity) happens with any type of woman (or man for that matter!).

If you have ever spent any time around a military base, you will observe a large percentage of buff, young military men parading around with their obese (forgive me) typical American wives.

I never cease to be surprised by earnest young men attached to a "trailer queen" pushing 250lbs.

I will grant that the life of a military wife is a particularly difficult one, but the contrast is shocking.

One could draw the conclusion that AW´s are not looking for decent, earnest, buff young men. They are looking for money.

Cheers,

Sporadic

[Darkseid]

Marak, some mongerors here can normally get sex but are fed up with the feminism bullshit of AWs. I was introduced to mongering in Nevada by my father but didn't really pursue it seriously because I was 18 and could get laid by any college girl. I still did not pursue it in college because I had my choice of freshwomen that had not yet taken women's studies' courses even though my Brazillian roomate wanted to show me how much better mongering is in Brazil than here in the USA. It is after my broken engagement where my younger fiancee took women's studies that I pursued mongering seriously as a means of therapy against the breakup caused by a group of radical feminists she befriended in NYU. I was in muscular shape as I am now. Sure I could take the get another girlfriend from New York route but I have already jumped through thousands of hoops to get my ex-fiancee and I didn't want to bother doing that again so I called my former Brazillian roommate for another Brazillian trip to Rio. I compared the attitudes of the Brazillian chicks against NYC chicks and what a difference!! I even hooked up on the third night in spite of the communication barrier but we used hand gestures to talk the words we can't speak. I was still badly in need of having sex because of the breakup so I filled in the days my Brazillian girlfriend was busy with Termas. This cheered me up bigtime and I did not want to leave so I called my boss at the time for an extension for the vacation for another week long distance.
At 33 now, I still am in great shape with washboard abs and all and still have my hair. I still pick up chicks in Nevada or any place other than big cities because the trying to hook up with a big city chick is like going through job interviews where you discuss pay, benefits, and time off which is absent in any of these relationships. If I were to hook up with another AW, it would be in Nevada where "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" and they give it up for some entertainment. Prudity in Vegas goes out the window and I still could get laid there.
I am not on this board because I can't get any but because I am addicted to sex and love sex. On days I strike out, I monger (which is usually the first day I land before going to clubs). Another wierd thing about women is that they give it up to you if you are not looking for it. If you already had it in a brothel, the next girl you meet in a club will give you more of it. (This is especially true of backwards AWs in Nevada).
Speaking of the hip hop culture and thick women, I notice that hip hoppers brag about the QUANTITY of sex they get but not the QUALITY. They also like "thick" women. They get more sex because they go for these easy to get thick women that are plentiful in the inner-cities from having McDonald's every 2 blocks. The ratio of buffaloes to thin women is another reason why I don't get any in big cities- they are just too disgusting to me and way below my level. Another food for thought, Marak. (See Ronny Ron's pic#2 and #4 (right side) and you'll see why I am on this board.)

[Travis Bickle 2]

Let me give you an example of what a lot of us are talking about. While in Psych class in college, our professor asked the ladies what they would think of a man (whom they were on a date with) who didn't take them out to an expensive dinner and all the things that come with it. 100% of them pretty much said that they wouldn't see him again, because he's too cheap (the FIRST perceived flaw they listed) among other things they listed as reasons NOT to go on a second date with the hypothetical guy.

I don't know where you guys are finding these women, are they models or something? I often ask a woman where she wants to go to dinner and I rarely get one that asks for some place expensive. Most often we go out for chinese or Thai food, heck frequently for pizza and beer, and I rarely get turned down for a second date.

You guys must go out with a lot fancier women than I do, because mine are happy with a good pizza and a movie. The whole date rarely sets me back more than fifty and I often get laid. Most of the women I know, do want a guys who works and is somewhat secure, but most would think a guy a pussy who spends $200 on dinner, unless its some kind of big celebration. And the women I'm talking about are reasonably attractive. It's just with all my friends, I don't know any who takes them out to an expensive dinner and all that goes with it: I'm assuming you mean like concert or theatre tickets?

But then again, I'm dating women my own age. And some are pretty hot. Travis

[Travis Bickle 2]

100% of college girls wouldn't date a guy again who doesn't take them to an expensive restaurant? So, you're telling us that no college girl will date a college guy? You mean to say those dorm parties where the chicks are giving the guys bj's are not college girls? Because I know almost 100% of those guys aren't taking those girls to fancy table cloth restaurants. I see most of them taking their dates to the sub shop. GET REAL! When I took college psych 101 with my girlfriend, she would have laughed and said she considered it a good Friday night when I'd pay for the twelve pack of Lucky Lager.

What you should say is that a totally hot American 18 year old would only go out with a guy thirty years older than her who is fat and balding if he spent tons on her. Heck, when I was 18, that's what it would have taken for me to date a fifty-year-old woman.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

[Latina Passion]

This is my fifty cents on American women, hell if you can even call them women anymore!

An American Woman goes into a relationship thinking that she can change her Man! The Man goes into that same relationship just thinking one thing!

Please do not CHANGE! Do not gain to much weight, do not cut your hair to short, and for god sake, fuck me and suck me the same you do now, when we get married!

Two marriages here, first one should have never gottened married, but here ass spent way to much fucking money, would buy my 1 year old daughter $50 fucking dresses!

Now my second wife oh my god! 8 years my Junior, 5'8" 125 36 C's, owned her own business at 28, biatch had my back! I's self-employeed my ass was short 5K payroll one week, she sent me the money in a few hours!

On vacation in New Orleans one weekend, ended up in a fucked up part of town late at night! LP is just about to get his ass kicked and kicked bad, so I tell my puta, look anything goes down run and get help and do not look back!

She looks at me and tells me look, we either fight together or we run together! I think to myself damn this biatch has got a brothers back!

This is the first time that I felt secured in anyones arms let alone a FEMALE!

The sex was off the fucking chain! All I have to say, it that it taste like pussy to me boys! LOL!

Now can anyone say Bait and fucking switch! First of all, biatch even lied about how tall she was and her height! 5'8" 125lbs my ass, 5'7" 135lbs!

Tell me what woman 28yo woman does not know her true height or weight?

I could go on, but same story different sucker is all, but none of the above was true! I lease my puta a Lexus as a wedding gift, end of lease, I tell her not going to spend more then 25K on a new car!

My bit-- bitches, so my dumb ass buy her another Lexus as an an anniversary gift. After a year I say enough is enough, I'm out so we go through marriage counseling, and the puta has the nerve to tell the head doc that I'm trying to control her because I decided to buy her a Lexus!

If any female want to control me like that bring it on!

Now her fat 200 pound ass is driving a used Ford Escape, living with a guy that works part time at the bowling alley, and his fat ass is to lazy to cut the fucking front lawn!

Well, got to go write out my $1600 a month child support payment!

[I can't agree with you more. I have never been to Japan, since I prefer Brazil, but all these fat women here in America disgust me. I walked into a restaurant yesterday and observed 10 women. All of them, every single one was 30-100 pounds overweight. The ones who are not overweight expect to be treated "special". I tell you, I am just tried of them.

RonnyRon[/QUOTE]

[Sinanju Master]

Did I say 100% of college women EVERYWHERE would have outright rejected the offer laid out by my psych professor? NO. YOU said that, because you saw in my post what you WANTED to see and misquoted me in your effort to bash to your heart's content. I said 100% of the women in my class that "participated" in the informal questionnaire responded as such. Even so, that is similar to the process of statistical sampling and that sample, I feel, was SIGNIFICANT. I said "expensive dinner", but it was YOU who laid down the concrete amount of money spent on a woman. "Expensive" is relative to each of us. To be CLEAR, let me say that there is NO woman who wouldn't think of trying to see how much more she can squeeze out of a guy on a date to see if she can "push him" to the point of seeing if he has a backbone or not. Another misunderstanding on your part was when you asked if these women were models. Seems you skipped RIGHT OVER the part where I said my standards of beauty are flexible. As far as your sane female friends are concerned, it seems you have a LOT of them. Either you are outright lucky and for some WEIRD reason you feel the need to lurk on this board and bash people who do not share your views TO THE LETTER, or you are capable of "fertilizing" areas of this planet that are not capable of supporting life. I'm debating that last one...

[Travis Bickle 2]

I'm just saying I can't believe 100% of all college age girls would put down in a survey they wouldn't go out with a guy a second time who didn't buy them an expensive dinner. In your particular class or any other. College girls generally date college guys. College guys don't have any money (mostly). I'm not trying to bash you at all, I just don't believe it. If you doubt me, go to any college campus in America. Places that have cheap eats are everywhere, and that's where the college kids go on their dates: again and again.

The reason I asked if the women were models is because that is just not what I've observed or had happen to me with the ordinary women I ask out on a regular basis. The last time (about 10 years ago) I asked a woman to an expensive restaurant to impress her she asked me "are you sure you can afford it" and then payed the tip and paid the valet. I just don't see all these gold-digging women you mention. More often than not, the women I date offer to pay the check.

I don't have a ton of female friends. I have several and I don't think any would push for an expensive dinner. I do have lots of guy friends, and with the exception of a couple that think the more they spend the luckier they will get, they don't get too fancy with dinner either, and they usually score second dates.

I think perhaps the problem lies in that some guys feel the need to impress and will take the woman out and spend tons of money on her. These guys rarely get laid because the woman loses all respect for him. Then he gets pissed and calls her a gold digger. Ever do that? I have. Spend a ton of money on a chick and don't get laid, and then see her kissing some unemployed loser the next week. Tom Leykis explains it really well.

Anyway, didn't mean to flame you. I just didn't buy it. I can see if it were a 100 grand a year private school where the college girls all drove Mercedes. But in middle class America, these college girls are happy to get a frosty and some chicken nuggets. Peace.

[Paddy]

Guys,

I read this thread almost everyday and I certainly share your views and contempt for AW.

I recently read "Honeymoon with My Brother" by Franz Wisner. It's about a guy from California who is getting married and a week before the wedding she pulls the plug on him. In lieu of the fact that he paid for everything he decided to go on with wedding party - minus the bride. The honeymoon is also paid for so he asks his brother if he wants to come along. He does and it turns into a two year 54 country sojourn. He also speaks very candidly about the women they meet in Asia, South America and Eastern Europe. They also discover the vast difference between AW and the rest of the women on our planet. This book is a must read for the guys on this forum and the AW thread in particular.

PS Sinanju, your statement about meeting an American woman being akin to a job interview was right on come to think of it. Basically, they're interviewing you to see if you're worthy of their time, interest and sex - if you get really high marks on their rating system.

[Sinanju Master]

Well, then, I'm at least glad we worked THAT out, somewhat. Tom Leykis and Doc Love BOTH opened my eyes and I'm no longer a sucker. I tried to impress a woman by taking her to a trendy restaurant a LONG TIME AGO, but it just didn't take, and I haven't used that tactic SINCE. These days, when I DO capture the attention of a woman, it's because they think I'm (metaphorically) a mustang that needs to be tamed. Just today, two of my female coworkers were picking my brain about my past, my ex, their opinion of my (latent) paternal skills and so forth. ONE of them (from another conversation) is still sending subtle signals after I told her about how I manipulated pressure points and nerve clusters on my ex's body. Off-the-wall shit like that (all the aforementioned stuff) where I'm not even THINKING of trying to attract a woman and it rivets them drives me nuts, because I'm not focused on it when I SHOULD be. On the opposite side of the coin, when I DO try, it's like I'm wearing REPELLENT.

[Sinanju Master]

greetings, dude! Long time no see! I was about to drop my head onto the pillow before I saw your post and decided to stay up for a few more minutes to reply. That adventure of the groom-to-be-NOT seems kinda wild! Too bad I didn't tag along with them! Yeah, the job interview analogy is right on the money, but these days, I just don't carry myself with the attitude of seriously "looking for a job". After much reflection, I feel that THEY have to make the cut with ME, 'cos I'M the one bringing the CIRCUS to town.

[Darkseid]

Travis, enjoy as much as that college pussy as you can now but as soon as the college girl you are dating now takes that dreaded REQUIRED womyn's studies course, you'll see what I am talking about. I had the best time in college dating freshwomen and didn't need to pay a lot for a date because they did not take "Feminism 101" from the Womyn's Studies curriculum. But check your college course guide and you'll see that your 4 year college offers that crap!! I hate my college for that!!! Pick up a New York University guide or Barnard College course guide and you'll see a list of Feminist courses. You'll also notice that the juniors and seniors are more demanding than freshmen. My ex college girlfriend dumped me as soon as she became a senior and took that dreaded course and that will happen to you! My ex-fiancee who I met in a 2 year school when I worked as a math professor who was 6 years my junior also broke the engagement and changed when she went to a 4 year school and took the women's studies classes. She also went to New York University because I helped her retake the SATs to get a better score so she could get in (What a stupid move THAT was!). She used to be a 115 pound gorgeous and nice Latina but now when I ran into her on one of my site surveys in my current job as an outside plant engineer at a bank she works at, she is now above 200 pounds because a feminist told her to let herself go and that if I don't like her as a behemoth, I don't really like her for herself. She also yells and screams at her customers. (I don't even know how she keeps that job. Oh yeah, feminism. She could also declare sexual discrimination to get her job back.)
Geez, 2 in a row!!! I then realized the real culprit was these radical feminists that sabotaged my relationships.
Also Travis, I challenge you to date a radical feminist who has taken those dreaded womyn's studies courses and compare them to the untainted freshmen and you'll see a big difference. The womyn's studies student will make you take them to expensive restaurants, and force you to buy everything. You'll also notice that AWs are much more picky in big cities after they've graduated college. In big cities, womyn's studies is considered "sophisticated".
Actually, a girlfriend or wife is like a job in that it is hard work to satisfy her or she'll fire you (dump, divorce, etc.) Also, like a boss, if she doesn't like something she yells at you. The only benefit is sex which she can take away or hold out on like a job benefit. The big difference is that YOU PAY HER A SALARY TO WORK FOR HER!!! YOU also pay her retirement benefits or severance pay in the form of alimony and child support.

[Cyberdas]

very long article with some good and interesting (and mixed) substance, especially when comming from the mainstream media:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/magazine/30feminism.html

what's a modern girl to do?
by maureen dowd
the new york times

saturday 30 october 2005

when i entered college in 1969, women were bursting out of their 50's chrysalis, shedding girdles, padded bras and conventions. the jazz age spirit flared in the age of aquarius. women were once again imitating men and acting all independent: smoking, drinking, wanting to earn money and thinking they had the right to be sexual, this time protected by the pill. i didn't fit in with the brazen new world of hard-charging feminists. i was more of a fun-loving (if chaste) type who would decades later come to life in sarah jessica parker's carrie bradshaw. i hated the grubby, unisex jeans and no-makeup look and drugs that zoned you out, and i couldn't understand the appeal of dances that didn't involve touching your partner. in the universe of eros, i longed for style and wit. i loved the art deco glamour of 30's movies. i wanted to dance the continental like fred and ginger in white hotel suites; drink martinis like myrna loy and william powell; live the life of a screwball heroine like katharine hepburn, wearing a gold lamé gown cut on the bias, cavorting with cary grant, strolling along fifth avenue with my pet leopard.

my mom would just shake her head and tell me that my idea of the 30's was wildly romanticized. "we were poor," she'd say. "we didn't dance around in white hotel suites." i took the idealism and passion of the 60's for granted, simply assuming we were sailing toward perfect equality with men, a utopian world at home and at work. i didn't listen to her when she cautioned me about the chimera of equality.

on my 31st birthday, she sent me a bankbook with a modest nest egg she had saved for me. "i always felt that the girls in a family should get a little more than the boys even though all are equally loved," she wrote in a letter. "they need a little cushion to fall back on. women can stand on the empire state building and scream to the heavens that they are equal to men and liberated, but until they have the same anatomy, it's a lie. it's more of a man's world today than ever. men can eat their cake in unlimited bakeries."

i thought she was just being old world, like my favorite jade, dorothy parker, when she wrote:

by the time you swear you're his,
shivering and sighing,
and he vows his passion is
infinite, undying -
lady, make a note of this:
one of you is lying.
i thought the struggle for egalitarianism was a cinch, so i could leave it to my earnest sisters in black turtlenecks and birkenstocks. i figured there was plenty of time for me to get serious later, that america would always be full of passionate and full-throated debate about the big stuff - social issues, sexual equality, civil rights. little did i realize that the feminist revolution would have the unexpected consequence of intensifying the confusion between the sexes, leaving women in a tangle of dependence and independence as they entered the 21st century.

maybe we should have known that the story of women's progress would be more of a zigzag than a superhighway, that the triumph of feminism would last a nanosecond while the backlash lasted 40 years.

despite the best efforts of philosophers, politicians, historians, novelists, screenwriters, linguists, therapists, anthropologists and facilitators, men and women are still in a muddle in the boardroom, the bedroom and the situation room.

courtship

my mom gave me three essential books on the subject of men. the first, when i was 13, was "on becoming a woman." the second, when i was 21, was "365 ways to cook hamburger." the third, when i was 25, was "how to catch and hold a man," by yvonne antelle. ("keep thinking of yourself as a soft, mysterious cat.... men are fascinated by bright, shiny objects, by lots of curls, lots of hair on the head ... by bows, ribbons, ruffles and bright colors.... sarcasm is dangerous. avoid it altogether.")

because i received "how to catch and hold a man" at a time when we were entering the age of equality, i put it aside as an anachronism. after all, sometime in the 1960's flirting went out of fashion, as did ironing boards, makeup and the idea that men needed to be "trapped" or "landed." the way to approach men, we reasoned, was forthrightly and without games, artifice or frills. unfortunately, history has shown this to be a misguided notion.

i knew it even before the 1995 publication of "the rules," a dating bible that encouraged women to return to prefeminist mind games by playing hard to get. ("don't stay on the phone for more than 10 minutes.... even if you are the head of your own company ... when you're with a man you like, be quiet and mysterious, act ladylike, cross your legs and smile.... wear black sheer pantyhose and hike up your skirt to entice the opposite sex!")

i knew this before fashion magazines became crowded with crinolines, bows, ruffles, leopard-skin scarves, 50's party dresses and other sartorial equivalents of flirting and with articles like "the return of hard to get." ("i think it behooves us to stop offering each other these pearls of feminism, to stop saying, 'so, why don't you call him?"' a writer lectured in mademoiselle. "some men must have the thrill of the chase.")

i knew things were changing because a succession of my single girlfriends had called, sounding sheepish, to ask if they could borrow my out-of-print copy of "how to catch and hold a man."

decades after the feminist movement promised equality with men, it was becoming increasingly apparent that many women would have to brush up on the venerable tricks of the trade: an absurdly charming little laugh, a pert toss of the head, an air of saucy triumph, dewy eyes and a full knowledge of music, drawing, elegant note writing and geography. it would once more be considered captivating to lie on a chaise longue, pass a lacy handkerchief across the eyelids and complain of a case of springtime giddiness.

today, women have gone back to hunting their quarry - in person and in cyberspace - with elaborate schemes designed to allow the deluded creatures to think they are the hunters. "men like hunting, and we shouldn't deprive them of their chance to do their hunting and mating rituals," my 26-year-old friend julie bosman, a new york times reporter, says. "as my mom says, men don't like to be chased." or as the marvelettes sang, "the hunter gets captured by the game."

these days the key to staying cool in the courtship rituals is b. & i., girls say - busy and important. "as much as you're waiting for that little envelope to appear on your screen," says carrie foster, a 29-year-old publicist in washington, "you happen to have a lot of stuff to do anyway." if a guy rejects you or turns out to be the essence of evil, you can ratchet up from b. & i. to c.b.b., can't be bothered. in the t.m.i. - too much information - digital age, there can be infinite technological foreplay.

helen fisher, a rutgers anthropologist, concurs with julie: "what our grandmothers told us about playing hard to get is true. the whole point of the game is to impress and capture. it's not about honesty. many men and women, when they're playing the courtship game, deceive so they can win. novelty, excitement and danger drive up dopamine in the brain. and both sexes brag."

women might dye their hair, apply makeup and spend hours finding a hip-slimming dress, she said, while men may drive a nice car or wear a fancy suit that makes them seem richer than they are. in this retro world, a woman must play hard to get but stay soft as a kitten. and avoid sarcasm. altogether.

money

in those faraway, long-ago days of feminism, there was talk about equal pay for equal work. now there's talk about "girl money."

a friend of mine in her 30's says it is a term she hears bandied about the new york dating scene. she also notes a shift in the type of gifts given at wedding showers around town, a reversion to 50's-style offerings: soup ladles and those frilly little aprons from anthropologie and vintage stores are being unwrapped along with see-through nighties and push-up bras.

"what i find most disturbing about the 1950's-ification and retrogression of women's lives is that it has seeped into the corporate and social culture, where it can do real damage," she complains. "otherwise intelligent men, who know women still earn less than men as a rule, say things like: 'i'll get the check. you only have girl money."'

throughout the long, dark ages of undisputed patriarchy, women connived to trade beauty and sex for affluence and status. in the first flush of feminism, women offered to pay half the check with "woman money" as a way to show that these crass calculations - that a woman's worth in society was determined by her looks, that she was an ornament up for sale to the highest bidder - no longer applied.

now dating etiquette has reverted. young women no longer care about using the check to assert their equality. they care about using it to assess their sexuality. going dutch is an archaic feminist relic. young women talk about it with disbelief and disdain. "it's a scuzzy 70's thing, like platform shoes on men," one told me.

"feminists in the 70's went overboard," anne schroeder, a 26-year-old magazine editor in washington, agrees. "paying is like opening a car door. it's nice. i appreciate it. but he doesn't have to."

unless he wants another date.

women in their 20's think old-school feminists looked for equality in all the wrong places, that instead of fighting battles about whether women should pay for dinner or wear padded bras they should have focused only on big economic issues.

after googling and bikramming to get ready for a first dinner date, a modern girl will end the evening with the offering, an insincere bid to help pay the check. "they make like they are heading into their bag after a meal, but it is a dodge," marc santora, a 30-year-old metro reporter for the times, says. "they know you will stop them before a credit card can be drawn. if you don't, they hold it against you."

one of my girlfriends, a tv producer in new york, told me much the same thing: "if you offer, and they accept, then it's over."

jurassic feminists shudder at the retro implication of a quid profiterole. but it doesn't matter if the woman is making as much money as the man, or more, she expects him to pay, both to prove her desirability and as a way of signaling romance - something that's more confusing in a dating culture rife with casual hookups and group activities. (once beyond the initial testing phase and settled in a relationship, of course, she can pony up more.)

"there are plenty of ways for me to find out if he's going to see me as an equal without disturbing the dating ritual," one young woman says. "disturbing the dating ritual leads to chaos. everybody knows that."

when i asked a young man at my gym how he and his lawyer girlfriend were going to divide the costs on a california vacation, he looked askance. "she never offers," he replied. "and i like paying for her." it is, as one guy said, "one of the few remaining ways we can demonstrate our manhood."

power dynamics

at a party for the broadway opening of "sweet smell of success," a top new york producer gave me a lecture on the price of female success that was anything but sweet. he confessed that he had wanted to ask me out on a date when he was between marriages but nixed the idea because my job as a times columnist made me too intimidating. men, he explained, prefer women who seem malleable and awed. he predicted that i would never find a mate because if there's one thing men fear, it's a woman who uses her critical faculties. will she be critical of absolutely everything, even his manhood?

he had hit on a primal fear of single successful women: that the aroma of male power is an aphrodisiac for women, but the perfume of female power is a turnoff for men. it took women a few decades to realize that everything they were doing to advance themselves in the boardroom could be sabotaging their chances in the bedroom, that evolution was lagging behind equality.

a few years ago at a white house correspondents' dinner, i met a very beautiful and successful actress. within minutes, she blurted out: "i can't believe i'm 46 and not married. men only want to marry their personal assistants or p.r. women."

i'd been noticing a trend along these lines, as famous and powerful men took up with young women whose job it was was to care for them and nurture them in some way: their secretaries, assistants, nannies, caterers, flight attendants, researchers and fact-checkers.

john schwartz of the new york times made the trend official in 2004 when he reported: "men would rather marry their secretaries than their bosses, and evolution may be to blame." a study by psychology researchers at the university of michigan, using college undergraduates, suggested that men going for long-term relationships would rather marry women in subordinate jobs than women who are supervisors. men think that women with important jobs are more likely to cheat on them. there it is, right in the dna: women get penalized by insecure men for being too independent.

"the hypothesis," dr. stephanie brown, the lead author of the study, theorized, "is that there are evolutionary pressures on males to take steps to minimize the risk of raising offspring that are not their own." women, by contrast, did not show a marked difference between their attraction to men who might work above them and their attraction to men who might work below them.

so was the feminist movement some sort of cruel hoax? do women get less desirable as they get more successful?

after i first wrote on this subject, a times reader named ray lewis e-mailed me. while we had assumed that making ourselves more professionally accomplished would make us more fascinating, it turned out, as lewis put it, that smart women were "draining at times."

or as bill maher more crudely but usefully summed it up to craig ferguson on the "late late show" on cbs: "women get in relationships because they want somebody to talk to. men want women to shut up."

women moving up still strive to marry up. men moving up still tend to marry down. the two sexes' going in opposite directions has led to an epidemic of professional women missing out on husbands and kids.

sylvia ann hewlett, an economist and the author of "creating a life: professional women and the quest for children," a book published in 2002, conducted a survey and found that 55 percent of 35-year-old career women were childless. and among corporate executives who earn $100,000 or more, she said, 49 percent of the women did not have children, compared with only 19 percent of the men.

hewlett quantified, yet again, that men have an unfair advantage. "nowadays," she said, "the rule of thumb seems to be that the more successful the woman, the less likely it is she will find a husband or bear a child. for men, the reverse is true."

a 2005 report by researchers at four british universities indicated that a high i.q. hampers a woman's chance to marry, while it is a plus for men. the prospect for marriage increased by 35 percent for guys for each 16-point increase in i.q.; for women, there is a 40 percent drop for each 16-point rise.

on a "60 minutes" report on the hewlett book, lesley stahl talked to two young women who went to harvard business school. they agreed that while they were the perfect age to start families, they didn't find it easy to meet the right mates.

men, apparently, learn early to protect their eggshell egos from high-achieving women. the girls said they hid the fact that they went to harvard from guys they met because it was the kiss of death. "the h-bomb," they dubbed it. "as soon as you say harvard business school ... that's the end of the conversation," ani vartanian said. "as soon as the guys say, 'oh, i go to harvard business school,' all the girls start falling into them."

hewlett thinks that the 2005 american workplace is more macho than ever. "it's actually much more difficult now than 10 years ago to have a career and raise a family," she told me. "the trend lines continue that highly educated women in many countries are increasingly dealing with this creeping nonchoice and end up on this path of delaying finding a mate and delaying childbearing. whether you're looking at italy, russia or the us, all of that is true." many women continue to fear that the more they accomplish, the more they may have to sacrifice. they worry that men still veer away from "challenging" women because of a male atavistic desire to be the superior force in a relationship.

"with men and women, it's always all about control issues, isn't it?" says a guy i know, talking about his bitter divorce.

or, as craig bierko, a musical comedy star and actor who played one of carrie's boyfriends on "sex and the city," told me, "deep down, beneath the bluster and machismo, men are simply afraid to say that what they're truly looking for in a woman is an intelligent, confident and dependable partner in life whom they can devote themselves to unconditionally until she's 40."

ms. versus mrs.

"ms." was supposed to neutralize the stature of women, so they weren't publicly defined by their marital status. when the times finally agreed to switch to ms. in its news pages in 1986, after much hectoring by feminists, gloria steinem sent flowers to the executive editor, abe rosenthal. but nowadays most young brides want to take their husbands' names and brag on the moniker mrs., a brand that proclaims you belong to him. t-shirts with "mrs." emblazoned in sequins or sparkly beads are popular wedding-shower gifts.

a harvard economics professor, claudia goldin, did a study last year that found that 44 percent of women in the harvard class of 1980 who married within 10 years of graduation kept their birth names, while in the class of '90 it was down to 32 percent. in 1990, 23 percent of college-educated women kept their own names after marriage, while a decade later the number had fallen to 17 percent.

time magazine reported that an informal poll in the spring of 2005 by the knot, a wedding web site, showed similar results: 81 percent of respondents took their spouse's last name, an increase from 71 percent in 2000. the number of women with hyphenated surnames fell from 21 percent to 8 percent.

"it's a return to romance, a desire to make marriage work," goldin told one interviewer, adding that young women might feel that by keeping their own names they were aligning themselves with tedious old-fashioned feminists, and this might be a turnoff to them.

the professor, who married in 1979 and kept her name, undertook the study after her niece, a lawyer, changed hers. "she felt that her generation of women didn't have to do the same things mine did, because of what we had already achieved," goldin told time.

many women now do not think of domestic life as a "comfortable concentration camp," as betty friedan wrote in "the feminine mystique," where they are losing their identities and turning into "anonymous biological robots in a docile mass." now they want to be mrs. anonymous biological robot in a docile mass. they dream of being rescued - to flirt, to shop, to stay home and be taken care of. they shop for "stepford fashions" - matching shoes and ladylike bags and the 50's-style satin, lace and chiffon party dresses featured in instyle layouts - and spend their days at the gym trying for wisteria lane waistlines.

the times recently ran a front-page article about young women attending ivy league colleges, women who are being groomed to take their places in the professional and political elite, who are planning to reject careers in favor of playing traditional roles, staying home and raising children.

"my mother always told me you can't be the best career woman and the best mother at the same time," the brainy, accomplished cynthia liu told louise story, explaining why she hoped to be a stay-at-home mom a few years after she goes to law school. "you always have to choose one over the other."

kate white, the editor of cosmopolitan, told me that she sees a distinct shift in what her readers want these days. "women now don't want to be in the grind," she said. "the baby boomers made the grind seem unappealing."

cynthia russett, a professor of american history at yale, told story that women today are simply more "realistic," having seen the dashed utopia of those who assumed it wouldn't be so hard to combine full-time work and child rearing.

to the extent that young women are rejecting the old idea of copying men and reshaping the world around their desires, it's exhilarating progress. but to the extent that a pampered class of females is walking away from the problem and just planning to marry rich enough to cosset themselves in a narrow world of dependence on men, it's an irritating setback. if the new ethos is "a woman needs a career like a fish needs a bicycle," it won't be healthy.

movies

in all those tracy-hepburn movies more than a half-century ago, it was the snap and crackle of a romance between equals that was so exciting. you still see it onscreen occasionally - the incendiary chemistry of brad pitt and angelina jolie playing married assassins aiming for mutually assured orgasms and destruction in "mr. and mrs. smith." interestingly, that movie was described as retro because of its salty battle of wits between two peppery lovers. moviemakers these days are more interested in exploring what steve martin, in his novel "shopgirl," calls the "calm cushion" of romances between unequals.

in james brooks's movie "spanglish," adam sandler, playing a sensitive los angeles chef, falls for his hot mexican maid, just as in "maid in manhattan," ralph fiennes, playing a sensitive new york pol, falls for the hot latino maid at his hotel, played by jennifer lopez. sandler's maid, who cleans up for him without being able to speak english, is presented as the ideal woman, in looks and character. his wife, played by téa leoni, is repellent: a jangly, yakking, overachieving, overexercised, unfaithful, shallow she-monster who has just lost her job with a commercial design firm and fears she has lost her identity.

in 2003, we had "girl with a pearl earring," in which colin firth's vermeer erotically paints scarlett johansson's dutch maid, and richard curtis's "love actually," about the attraction of unequals. the witty and sophisticated british prime minister, played by hugh grant, falls for the chubby girl who wheels the tea and scones into his office. a businessman married to the substantial emma thompson, the sister of the prime minister, falls for his sultry secretary. a novelist played by colin firth falls for his maid, who speaks only portuguese.

art is imitating life, turning women who seek equality into selfish narcissists and objects of rejection rather than of affection.

it's funny. i come from a family of irish domestics - statuesque, 6-foot-tall women who cooked, kept house and acted as nannies for some of america's first families. i was always so proud of achieving more - succeeding in a high-powered career that would have been closed to my great-aunts. how odd, then, to find out now that being a maid would have enhanced my chances with men.

an upstairs maid, of course.

women's magazines

cosmo is still the best-selling magazine on college campuses, as it was when i was in college, and the best-selling monthly magazine on the newsstand. the june 2005 issue, with jessica simpson on the cover, her cleavage spilling out of an orange crocheted halter dress, could have been june 1970. the headlines are familiar: "how to turn him on in 10 words or less," "do you make men m-e-l-t? take our quiz," "bridal special," cosmo's stud search and "cosmo's most famous sex tips; the legendary tricks that have brought countless guys to their knees." (sex trick 4: "place a glazed doughnut around your man's member, then gently nibble the pastry and lick the icing ... as well as his manhood." another favorite cosmo trick is to yell out during sex which of your girlfriends thinks your man is hot.)

at any newsstand, you'll see the original cosmo girl's man-crazy, sex-obsessed image endlessly, tiresomely replicated, even for the teen set. on the cover of elle girl: "267 ways to look hot."

"there has been lots of copying - look at glamour," helen gurley brown, cosmo's founding editor told me and sighed. "i used to have all the sex to myself."

before it curdled into a collection of stereotypes, feminism had fleetingly held out a promise that there would be some precincts of womanly life that were not all about men. but it never quite materialized.

it took only a few decades to create a brazen new world where the highest ideal is to acknowledge your inner ****. i am woman; see me strip. instead of peaceful havens of girl things and boy things, we have a society where women of all ages are striving to become self-actualized sex kittens. hollywood actresses now work out by taking pole-dancing classes.

female sexuality has been a confusing corkscrew path, not a serene progressive arc. we had decades of victorian prudery, when women were not supposed to like sex. then we had the pill and zipless encounters, when women were supposed to have the same animalistic drive as men. then it was discovered - shock, horror! - that men and women are not alike in their desires. but zipless morphed into hookups, and the more one-night stands the girls on "sex and the city" had, the grumpier they got.

oddly enough, felix dennis, who created the top-selling maxim, said he stole his "us against the world" lad-magazine attitude from women's magazines like cosmo. just as women didn't mind losing cosmo's prestigious fiction as the magazine got raunchier, plenty of guys were happy to lose the literary pretensions of venerable men's magazines and embrace simple-minded gender stereotypes, like the maxim manifesto instructing women, "if we see you in the morning and night, why call us at work?"

jessica simpson and eva longoria move seamlessly from showing their curves on the covers of cosmo and glamour to maxim, which dubbed simpson "america's favorite ball and chain!" in the summer of 2005, both british gq and fhm featured pamela anderson busting out of their covers. ("i think of my breasts as props," she told fhm.)

a lot of women now want to be maxim babes as much as men want maxim babes. so women have moved from fighting objectification to seeking it. "i have been surprised," maxim's editor, ed needham, confessed to me, "to find that a lot of women would want to be somehow validated as a maxim girl type, that they'd like to be thought of as hot and would like their boyfriends to take pictures of them or make comments about them that mirror the maxim representation of a woman, the pamela anderson sort of brand. that, to me, is kind of extraordinary."

the luscious babes on the cover of maxim were supposed to be men's fantasy guilty pleasures, after all, not their real life-affirming girlfriends.

beauty

while i never related to the unstyled look of the early feminists and i tangled with boyfriends who did not want me to wear makeup and heels, i always assumed that one positive result of the feminist movement would be a more flexible and capacious notion of female beauty, a release from the tyranny of the girdled, primped ideal of the 50's.

i was wrong. forty years after the dawn of feminism, the ideal of feminine beauty is more rigid and unnatural than ever.

when gloria steinem wrote that "all women are bunnies," she did not mean it as a compliment; it was a feminist call to arms. decades later, it's just an aesthetic fact, as more and more women embrace botox and implants and stretch and protrude to extreme proportions to satisfy male desires. now that technology is biology, all women can look like inflatable dolls. it's clear that american narcissism has trumped american feminism.

it was naïve and misguided for the early feminists to tendentiously demonize barbie and cosmo girl, to disdain such female proclivities as shopping, applying makeup and hunting for sexy shoes and cute boyfriends and to prognosticate a world where men and women dressed alike and worked alike in navy suits and were equal in every way.

but it is equally naïve and misguided for young women now to fritter away all their time shopping for boudoirish clothes and text-messaging about guys while they disdainfully ignore gender politics and the seismic shifts on the supreme court that will affect women's rights for a generation.

what i didn't like at the start of the feminist movement was that young women were dressing alike, looking alike and thinking alike. they were supposed to be liberated, but it just seemed like stifling conformity.

what i don't like now is that the young women rejecting the feminist movement are dressing alike, looking alike and thinking alike. the plumage is more colorful, the shapes are more curvy, the look is more plastic, the message is diametrically opposite - before it was don't be a sex object; now it's be a sex object - but the conformity is just as stifling.

and the future...

having boomeranged once, will women do it again in a couple of decades? if we flash forward to 2030, will we see all those young women who thought trying to have it all was a pointless slog, now middle-aged and stranded in suburbia, popping ativan, struggling with rebellious teenagers, deserted by husbands for younger babes, unable to get back into a work force they never tried to be part of?

it's easy to picture a surreally familiar scene when women realize they bought into a raw deal and old trap. with no power or money or independence, they'll be mere domestic robots, lasering their legs and waxing their floors - or vice versa - and desperately seeking a new betty friedan.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
maureen dowd is a columnist for the new york times. this essay is adapted from are men necessary: when sexes collide, to be published next month by g.p. putnam's sons.

[Beko9]

Most posters here blame feminism as the room problem for all what is wrong with AW namely:

1) Obesity
2) Materialism

But surely the 1 and 2 are products of American culture not feminism?

Americans live highly sedate lifestyle and consume too much food. As a result both women and men in the US are overweight. American males are as much overweight as females.

American culture heavily promotes materialism and consumerism. Sometimes it seems that there are no human beings in the US society but only sellers and buyers. Everything has a price tag.

Unfortunately these two American trends: obesity and the duo of materialism and consumerism are spreading around the work like cancer. As a result one day all females (and males) in the world may resemble Americans of today. What a horrifying prospect!

[Cyberdas]

That would be the end of the world as we know it. God forbid (or provide - depending upon how you look at it) 'cause I wouldn't want to live in a world like that. I suppose this rings true for most of the mongers on this forum. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Although, unfortunately, I am seeing this trend spreading around to other places. Take the cities / towns in Mexico along the U.S. border for example whose femmes are more and more becoming influenced by the curse of AW.

[Travis Bickle 2]

Darkseid, You must have misunderstood me. I'm not a college student, at least not since I graduated U of W in 1976. I do have kids, nieces, nephews, and have friends with college aged kids, and they all seem to be broke and dating other kids their age. I do live near the campus and see kids all the time holding hands and kissing while drinking coffee at Denny's like we used to when I was younger.

I really don't see much of the radical feminism anymore. There for a while a woman would snarl at you for so much as opening a door for her. Now days, I usually get a warm smile followed by a thank-you. I've done quite a bit of online dating and most of the women I've met have been fairly successful. I'd say about 80% volunteer to help pay when the check arrives, and I've taken quite a few up on their offer. Most of the time I get a second date. I'm currently dating a woman physican who makes four times as much as I do. Sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays, she has yet to lord it over me how much she makes.

I think a lot of guys have been burnt and are afraid to take another chance. But me and most of the guys I know that are dating are having a great time. Sure, some of the women are fat, but not as high a percentage as my guy friends. I'm fairly slim, but most of my friends are having the big gut/thinning hair thing going on. Still, I'm surprised at how good looking some of the women are that they go out with.

Me, I have too much family and friends here to ever consider moving overseas. I enjoy the variety of P2P, but also enjoy having a good woman to wake up with in the morning and to take care of each other as we grow older. Now, having been burnt a few times myself, I could become bitter and complain each day, or I can assume there are a few AW left that aren't all that bad and maybe actually find someone I fit quite well with. That's what I've chosen to do. I also make it quite clear (not with the lady physician) that a pre-nuptual is in order if we do get married. I admit things may not be as good as I portray, but I'm certain if you look a little deeper, that things aren't nearly as bad you guys portray.

And while a lot of us are in shape and still pretty decent looking, I do agree with Marak5 that a lot aren't. I've been to Bangkok and have seen the hideous looking fat guys that are parading around with an eighteen year old hottie like they're the biggest stud on earth. Sure it's hard to compare an eighteen year old Thai girl that's gonna be licking his asshole that evening to an overweight AW that's his age. But at least the AW is real, the only thing for certain is the Thai girl is after him because he makes more in a week than the average Thai does all year. He'll have a great vacation, but he'll still go home lonely.

[Sinanju Master]

Even before I went to the Philippines, I had an idea that some mongers would fit my visual idea of the middle-aged high school janitor that masturbates just out of sight of the girls locker room during phys ed and ogles them a bit too much on the job, eventually ending up as a headline after he sexually assaults one. I remember seeing one guy who must have been in his late fifties; slightly stooped posture, WHITE HAIR, balding, Coke bottle glasses, a cadaver-like complexion and a LOUD Hawaiian shirt. He had his hand on the back of a Filipina "companion" (looked about 25) and she appeared to always be about a couple inches AHEAD of that hand. She was probably creeped out at his touch, but the promise of future cash kept her within reach, it seemed. However, I know these guys have needs too, and as pathetic-looking as they are, I don't judge them. They KNOW that their best days are far behind them, and use currency as a way to make up for lost time. Nothing wrong with that at all. IF you pay good money for a product, you should get your money's worth. THAT situation is where hooking up with a woman many years younger wouldn't make me bat an eyelash. Hell, I'd do it myself. HOWEVER, if said over-the-hill dude is looking for a RELATIONSHIP with said hottie and such an age gap exists, I'd be the first to tactfully bring it up to him without berating him. Leave THAT equation on the MONGERING side. The reason I CAN'T give up on AW's (much as I would like to) is that I LIVE in the US and I can't see myself living OUTSIDE the US for a significant amount of time. I have only a few (but quite significant) commitments that wouldn't allow me to PERMANENTLY uproot myself. As would be my RIGHT, I'd have high standards that they must meet in order for them to close the deal, relationship-wise. For those of you who have read Doc Love's literature, you know what I'm talking about.

[Travis Bickle 2]

I think that's part of the problem that some guys don't separate the two: Mongering and Relationships. When I'm mongering, I always go for the youngest I can find (legally of course). I always say the perfect girl for me just turned 18 yesterday. But now that I'm fifty, I know my days of picking that 18year old girl are over. It's really surprising when you look at say match.com ads that guys write. You'll have a fairly unattractive fifty year old who puts down 20 to 35 as their age range of women they want to date. Now, most will get few if any responses, but yeah, a few will reply if he lists a big enough income. Golddiggers? I don't really think so. Its just that there is really no other reason for a girl that age who can get anybody she wants to be interested in a much older guy, unless she has some father issues or something. So, the guy gets pissed and says all these @$%@%'s are golddiggers.

He then goes to another country and suddenly is besieged with young gals that seem to want to be around him for the person he is. But don't be fooled. Most of the world thinks us Americans to be well off. A lot would live over here if they could. So, even if you're not flashing any cash, that American accent is yelling money. Heck, even in a well off country like Australia, an American who has the cash to vacation in Aussie is obviously doing okay. Money attracts women wherever you go.

And if you just got turned down by twenty youngsters here, and all of a sudden have a bunch hitting on you when you go on vacation, of course you're going to think, wow., those AW really are as bad as they say. If you're having bad luck with AW, then do something about it. Go to weightwatchers, work out, buy some attractive clothes, learn to dance or play golf or something that women enjoy. Its not rocket science. Date ladies your age and monger with ladies their daughters age. Come to think of it, American women should do the same.

[Bart9000]

It appears that we are having issues with stereotyping. Whenever generalizations are made about large groups of people, there are a percentage that the generalizations do not apply to. However, there also frequently is a healthy degree of truth in stereotypes, which is what originated them in the first place. For the record:

Not every single American Woman is a cut-throat, greedy, deceptive, unfaithful hopelessly unrealistic fat pig, who is looking for the opportunity to exploit men for their own benefit, and don't necessarily give themselves sexually to the men who they look to for different varieties of financial support. However, in that a good number show at least some of these behaviors-enough, I have found personally to warrant a high degree of caution before even considering making any type of investment (time, expectation, money) in one.

Also, we are probably making an error in making feminism the only "bad guy". Absolutely, it is a major contributing factor, but there are certainly others like as mentioned, puritanism, consumerism, materialism etc. However, before someone turns this back at men, let me mention that there are two character traits that MOST women have-a propensity towards illogical thinking, and a distinct lack of a sense of "fair play". These two traits greatly compound the effects of the afore mentioned "isms".

[CBGBConnisur]

I recently had a conversation with a Swedish woman and they are the most ultrafeminist women on the planet. They are even worse than the greedy and cutthroat AWs we have to put up with in the US. There is a similar level of pussification of males in Sweden as in the US. The idea that the average Swedish woman is a knockout is BS as well, most women while better than your typical AW, are average by international standards. Eastern Europe is head and shoulders above Sweden in this regard.

[Darkseid]

Actually, I am in shape and I also date girls my age but AWs put so many obstacles in your way to get to them that it has become a turnoff and not worth my while. New York City women put much more obstacles and the reward is that you get a master or boss. Not all mongerors are finicky with their choice of dateable women. However, I am guilty though of not accepting single mothers, because of legal issues where I might get stuck raising a kid I didn't make, or women who are more than 30 pounds overweight (which is too much in general and plus I don't want to be weighed down by a woman who FORCES me to eat junk that she can't finish. I had that happen on a date with a chubby girl. She couldn't finish a banana float so she demanded I finish the float and I refused saying I was lactose intolerant so we ended the date. I wouldn't want to go HER direction healthwise. I would date a chubby woman who is serious about losing the pounds but I wouldn't have sex with her until she is slim). I think these are good reasons for these restrictions I place but other than that, I date women with minor flaws like glasses, buck teeth, big feet, etc. Also AWs are the sometimes the ones that discriminate against factors such as race, money, and age. Most of the time I get turned down for race in New York City. Of course, I am in one of the worst cities on the planet for dating (True for anybody because of the dating unfriendliness of this cursed city).
I don't hate all AWs. Smaller town girls I find are more fun than big city girls. A girl I dated with who graduated from a small town in Ohio was a lot more fun than any girl I dated in NYC. Also girls in Las Vegas are more fun than girls in NYC, Seattle, or Detroit. Also I had a great time in pre-Katrina New Orleans' Mardi Gras and those are AWs. I guess Womyn's Studies isn't offered in those colleges. I noticed that the worst cities for dating have colleges that DO offer Womyn's Studies courses. (Notice how stupid feminists are that they can't even spell "women".)
New York City is the reason I go mongering. It also assimilates women from other cities into lazy complaining bitches that boss you around because of their feminist teaching colleges. Travis, if you are in a small town, don't move your family into the big cities like New York, or Seattle. I notice that farmers or small town couples stay married more than big city couples.
I monger because it is hard to get pussy frequently in New York City where I live. AWs here are the worst of the worst and most make you wait a year before you even get a kiss. They also aren't the best looking women either. I admit that while dating a NYC prude I took trips without her mongering in FKK clubs behind her back since the sex was greatly lacking. I lied to her saying that I have a business trip to Germany so she wouldn't want to tag along. I also admit being scared to death marrying here in NYC because the divorce laws are the worst on the planet with London, England being the second worst.
I am trying to move to Las Vegas but no luck with the job market. I travel back and forth to other towns as well for interviews but they need specific skills. If you are wondering why I just don't move, I CAN'T and I am stuck here because of the poor economy we have here. I even tried moving to Brazil and living off the interest earned from my 401K plan and even that went down the tubes with our incompetent asshole president who lowered the value of our currency to line his own pockets. The only job I was able to get was my old job because no other company was hiring. My plan B is to stick it out until I retire rich and single, stay in shape and use Propecia then move away and marry a foreign chick.
Swedish chicks is the Femerica overseas and eventually their inner ugliness will come out as they will become fat and ugly like AWs. Feminism does create the "He must accept me for who I am" mentality so they too will overeat and be "non-conforming to man's ideal woman". Something should be done to cut that feminist gangrened country from the rest of Europe. Even England is less feminist than Sweden. I hope some country declares war on that place and blows it up so the disease won't spread.

[CBGBConnisur]

I went to Sweden, and frankly most Swedish women are merely average in looks. I thought German women were a lot nicer and on average better looking.

[Chocha Monger]

CBGB,

I agree with you that Swedish women tend to be only average in looks. For some reason there is a very popular myth that they are all busty blonde bombshells with extra-ordinary sexual abilities. My experience is that they are usually not stunning in appearance or in bed. Their feminist attitudes are less in your face than that of American women, but it tends to be passive aggressive which can get on one's nerves rather quickly.

Their attitude towards sex is not unlike that towards other human needs. In other words if you're thirsty drink, if you're hungry eat and if you're horny fuck. Not much emotion or thought is wasted when it comes to sex, this might be one of the reasons that Swedes are considered to be rather cold people. There is a lot of politeness on the surface and they will try to avoid you if they do not wish to speak with you. This is often mistaken for shyness. Swedish women also hardly ever say no to anything directly, they often give hints that they don't want to do something by saying, "That might be difficult", or "I am not sure". For someone from the US that can be very annoying.

On the other hand, Swedish girls tend to be very curious about foreign cock and lots of non-pro action can be had if you're there for some time. One night stands are very common even among married women.

[Chocha Monger]

Cyberdas,

I read that extremely long article and came to one conclusion. American women still don't have a fucking clue! American men do not want to play little cat and mouse bullshit games with women who play hard to get and send mixed signals. Anyway, the author at least got the part about avoiding sarcasm right.

Some men like to go through extra-ordinary trials to hunt and take certain game animals but I'm quite sure that pussy isn't one of them. This AW is at a loss as to why men prefer to fuck secretaries, maids and airline stewardesses. Hmm... could it possibly be that these women know how attend to a man's needs without feeling demeaned by doing so? After all, if you want to be spoilt a little who would you choose to do it, someone who is used to taking care of people's needs or someone who spends their days in a corporate boardroom running rough-shod over subordinates and negotiating hard contracts? I think the answer is quite obvious. AWs keep missing the obvious and that is why professional women often get sport-fucked by wealthy guys who then proceed to marry their maids.

Perhaps, AWs can learn a lot from a maid. No. Forget that, they are way too arrogant to learn anything from a maid. I guess making sex available to their men without conditions is too much to ask, since that would be asking them to give up a major bargaining chip. Likewise taking pride in their appearance would be interpreted as "doing it for him" and hence considered a form of submissiveness. As we all know being submissive is a no no for AWs, the very word embodies all that is evil and vile. Therefore, they will continue being "strong" women who do not "need" men.

Frankly, I don't see what the problem is at all. There are plenty of sperm banks and sex shops with everything a no nonsense strong corporate woman could want or need to start a family or satisfy her urges, except perhaps a man to pay for it all.

[Cyberdas]

Hey Chocha Monger, you nailed it in the head several times.

Travis Bickle 2, I just wanted to say that with regards to college girls, it's all the same as bad as in the corporate world and anywhere else in Sex Prison USA. I happen to work and attend classes at an "elite" and very expensive university in Los Angeles where the scenario comes nowhere near close to what you mentioned in your posts. The atmosphere here is that of a voluntarily self-imposed 1984 lifestyle where love / feelings / lust / desire etc... are entirely vetoed. The saddest part is that it is voluntarily self-imposed. Can you believe this? Of all lifestyles, this was the one unanimously chosen and adopted by not only its student body, but that of if staff, faculty and visitors.

These very young ladies are well in their way to being the prototype AW - hell, they already are - and this is even before they enroll in Women Studies courses. I have had to deal with some of these "barely legal" young AW on a business / professional basis and I can attest to their instinctive nature of being the man-hating, hemisexual sheilas that they already are. I don't want to even imagine what these young femmes will be like 5 or 10 years from now, when they'll most likely be well established in their professions.

The point I'm trying to make is that AW are instinctively the way they are from a very early age and this continues through either most of their lifetime or until they reach their 40s, are lonely and probably either realize what they missed out on all along or hook up with another AW and become lovers / partners. Hell, most AW tend to be either hemisexual, homosexual or bisexual (at best) anyway. Why else do they hate men so much then?

[Capt Ajax]

Between the ages of 18 - 21 a woman is like Africa or Australia. She is half discovered, half wild and naturally beautiful with bushland around the fertile deltas.

Between the ages of 21 - 30 a woman is like America or Japan. Completely discovered, very well developed and open to trade especially with countries with cash or cars.

Between the ages of 30 - 35, she is like India or Spain. Very hot, relaxed and convinced of its own beauty.

Between the ages of 35 - 40 a woman is like France or Argentina. She may have been half destroyed during the war but can still be a warm and desirable place to visit.

Between the ages of 40 - 50 she is like Yugoslavia or Iraq. She lost the war and is haunted by past mistakes. Massive reconstruction is now necessary.

Between the ages of 50 - 60 she is like Russia or Canada. Very wide, quiet and the borders are practically unpatrolled but the frigid climate keeps people away.

Between the ages of 60 - 70 a woman is like England or Mongolia. With a glorious and all conquering past but alas no future (a bit like Tony Blair, maybe Blair's a women really).

After 70, they become Albania or Afghanistan. Everyone knows where it is, but no one wants to go there.

The Geography of a Man

Between the ages of 15 - 70 a man is like Zimbabwe - ruled by a dick.

[CBGBConnisur]

Australian sheilas are actually pretty good, Oz is no Brazil or Argentina but its at least as good as a good continental Euro country and definitely better than the US or Canada as far as finding eager women.

[Rock Dog]

There was a comment in a recent post saying that women liked to use sex as leverage over men. That got me thinking about this show I saw on TV the other night. It's called Family Business. The star of the show is a guy named Adam..... who also happens to go by the name of Seymour Butts. I'm sure many will recognize this name! On the show, he goes about his business running his porn empire. But they also show him as just another regular guy, trying to raise his son, doing his daily activities, trying to meet a girlfriend etc.

It's that last point that was really educational for me. Here's a guy with lots of money, not bad looking, takes care of his kid, has a sense of humor and is fairly ambitious. Think he can get a regular girl? Nope.... no way. Sure, he's in the porn business so there's a bit of an "ick" factor at work, but you'd think there's be lots of girls that could look past that. In fact, one could easily imagine that some girls would find that a big plus since Seymour does the occasional scene in some of his films. But, the same thing happens every time.... he meets a girl for a date and then lets them know about who he is and what he does. He's very up front about it and always gets the same negative reaction.

Why would this be such a problem? My theory is that the girls immediately recognize one major fact. They will have absolutely no sexual leverage over him whatsoever. I mean, here's a guy who has his own porn business. This gives him unlimited access to a large variety of attractive women that he can fuck whenever and as often as he chooses. Not just that, but he's also got a built in excuse..... "but honey, I was working".

This helps prove to me that women like having that built-in advantage going in to any new relationship. They hate anything that cuts into that advantage and that's why they hate porn, prostitutes or anything else that reduces mens' need for their "services".

Rock

[Rock Dog]

I was at work today and the TV was on by the reception area. Normally I don't bother watching Oprah, but the show happened to be on. It was something about this Country and Western singer named Mindy MaCready who'd been assaulted by her boyfriend (now EX-boyfriend) and was pregnant with his kid. That was a little bit interesting, but then they went into full estrogen mode..... going on about how she needed to get over it, begin the healing process, men are bad, women are victims.... blablablah etc.

I was about to pass out from boredom when I realized something that seemed to be quite significant. Oprah really has it in for men. She's fucked up mentally from getting screwed at 9 years old by a male relative. Now it looks like she wants to spend her time and effort getting even. I feel sorry for what happened to her but come on..... half of her shows seem to be about some poor woman that needs help, or has been victimized (usually by some bad man). What's more, most of the so-called experts appearing on the show seem to be women. Guess who makes up most of the audience? Hint: not too many of them have any testicles.

Here we have a show, targeted at women, run and made by a powerful and wealthy woman who has an obvious anti-male bias. Sounds like propaganda to me.

Oh yeah, can you imagine the uproar if some rich guy started a show that was that biased against women? Let's get some billionaire to host it and we can call it the ISG/ American Women Show!

Rock

[CBGBConnisur]

There was a comment in a recent post saying that women liked to use sex as leverage over men. That got me thinking about this show I saw on TV the other night. It's called Family Business. The star of the show is a guy named Adam..... who also happens to go by the name of Seymour Butts. I'm sure many will recognize this name! On the show, he goes about his business running his porn empire. But they also show him as just another regular guy, trying to raise his son, doing his daily activities, trying to meet a girlfriend etc.

It's that last point that was really educational for me. Here's a guy with lots of money, not bad looking, takes care of his kid, has a sense of humor and is fairly ambitious. Think he can get a regular girl? Nope.... no way. Sure, he's in the porn business so there's a bit of an "ick" factor at work, but you'd think there's be lots of girls that could look past that. In fact, one could easily imagine that some girls would find that a big plus since Seymour does the occasional scene in some of his films. But, the same thing happens every time.... he meets a girl for a date and then lets them know about who he is and what he does. He's very up front about it and always gets the same negative reaction.

Why would this be such a problem? My theory is that the girls immediately recognize one major fact. They will have absolutely no sexual leverage over him whatsoever. I mean, here's a guy who has his own porn business. This gives him unlimited access to a large variety of attractive women that he can fuck whenever and as often as he chooses. Not just that, but he's also got a built in excuse..... "but honey, I was working".

This helps prove to me that women like having that built-in advantage going in to any new relationship. They hate anything that cuts into that advantage and that's why they hate porn, prostitutes or anything else that reduces mens' need for their "services".

Rock

This typical of the North American way of thought, have a lot of things and personal attributes that society in general find attractive and then the women will come to you. Its such a crock of shit but sadly this is the rule of life in the US and Canada. I have been elsewhere and a lot of guys in other countries get much better pussy and many are half broke or aren't that good looking. I even know someone here in Australia, balding and fat, has more hair on his back than on his head, but he as a good looking blonde girlfriend. I saw the same thing in Europe and SA, in Buenos Aires I saw this HUGE fat Argentinian guy in a restaurant but he had three ladies surrounding him and falling over him. In all honesty North American women are completely fucked up, and I mean completely. I have traveled around the world and its been easy for me to build rapport with hot women in places like Australia, South America, and Europe, where they completely stick to me like glue on paper while I would have to struggle to do the same in the US and Canada with a less attractive female. One European guy was trashing his women but in all honesty during my trip I had a .500 batting average without practice, at least half of the women I would walk up to I could build some kind of rapport. So it really is not just the guy, its the lady as well.

In a lot of other societies women want to see you as a person, not as a doctor, lawyer, or businessman and how successful you are believe it or not. Guys like this still get pussy worldwide but the guy who is out of the "box" so to speak in a lot of other countries can get a lot of pussy. I have known a lot of regular working class guys in Europe who have girlfriends with sexual appeal that can put an American tycoons golddigger to shame.

[Bart9000]

The truly ironic thing about Oprah....the fact that her show is pretty much watched by idiotic biddies...as they lounge around in their (relative to the rest of the world) big luxurious houses as some of the most privledged creatures on the planet. If these women were truly poor and opressed, they would be out thrashing wheat in the fields to fight off starvation, or so burdened down with domestic chores like keeping a fire stoked for cooking, doing laundry by hand, and minding children without the assistance of "electronic babysitters" such as TV, DVD, gaming systems, etc.....and wouln't have time to watch that ***** instigate problems.

[Dickhead]

"in Buenos Aires I saw this HUGE fat Argentinian guy in a restaurant but he had three ladies surrounding him and falling over him."

Are you sure the fat guy was Argentinean? Sounds like a gringo with three hookers to me. Today I fucked the "official mansion masseuse" from the Argentina board. This gal rocks. Yeah, she is maybe 7 kg overweight but she is sweet, funny, well-educated, highly intelligent, and can suck the chrome off a bumper hitch. She thinks American women are fucked up too. Plus she wants to know, since there are no bidets in the US, how they wash their pussies. Good question.

[Member #4351]

Astor Bryan...did you make that up? Its hilarious.

[Yogin]

Most posters here blame feminism as the room problem for all what is wrong with AW namely:

1) Obesity

2) Materialism

But surely the 1 and 2 are products of American culture not feminism?

Americans live highly sedate lifestyle and consume too much food. As a result both women and men in the US are overweight.

American culture heavily promotes materialism and consumerism. Sometimes it seems that there are no human beings in the US society but only sellers and buyers. Everything has a price tag.You are correct about American culture promoting obesity. But feminism actively promotes it too, telling women that letting themselves go is a route to "acceptance" of their true feminine bodies (their true inner nature destined to show itself). If they try to stay slender & in shape they are only buying into the "brainwashing" of the fashion industry & mass media. There's even a book called "Fat is a Feminist Issue". It's no wonder that most man-hating lesbos are fat.

[Chocha Monger]

Are you sure the fat guy was Argentinean? Sounds like a gringo with three hookers to me.

Damn Dickhead! I can't stop laughing at this one, it's so funny but true.;)

[CBGBConnisur]

Everthing has a price tag in the US? It sure is true.

[Chocha Monger]

One of the wonders of our fine capitalist system is that anyone can have as much as they can consume providing that they can pay for it, or get it on credit. Food is no exception to the rule, but it tends to be relatively cheap hence the many wide asses found in these United States of America.

Pussy is one of the most expensive commodities on the US market. Under our free market system any man can get pussy if he can afford the price. However, the price of pussy is controlled by the women through an informal method of setting price controls via social norms. Women use an unusually tough but effective means of bargaining with men who are the usual buyers of pussy. Instead of asking for the fair market value of their pussy women simply estimate what a particular man's net worth would be and set that as the asking price for their snatch. This devious tactic pretty much eliminates competition among different women offering the same or similar commodity for sale and ensures that each man will pay as much as possible for the goods. This makes women a powerful collective bargaining unit to be reckoned with.

This domestic market is largely protected from foreign competition by strict immigration/import regulations and tariffs. When a foreign competitor manages to break into the market the local suppliers quickly entice them to join and benefit from oligarchy on the sex supply. Only the bravest and most adventurous of men venture beyond the national borders in search of more favorable markets. This band of rebels who fearlessly peddle their cocks in countries rife with civil war, crime and disease are known as mongers.

[Mike12]

Thanks for your fine lesson on pussy economics. It should be included in all standard economic text books in the U.S. Many great points made and all true. I never quite pictured myself as fearlessly peddling my cock while dodging bullets, pickpockets, malaria, and corrupt cops in third world countries in search of pussy until now.

[Harimau Malaya]

CBGB,

No, dude you missed something, not everything comes with a price tag. Cocks are the most abundant resource in the U.S. They are always free of charge, just like the air we breath.

[Harimau Malaya]

Many of you may have realized that majority of the people like to emulate what they see on TV. Many of the blockbuster movies in the U.S always have the main characters in the movie as divorced or maybe separated couples. They always get pregnant before they get married, I am sure I have seen that a gazillion times. Movies such as Stepmom, Waiting to Exhale, As Good as it Gets, all deal with issues of divorce and even movies such as Lethal Weapon and Day of After Tomorrow have subtle messages on divorce. Probably the most popular of all was Kramer vs. Kramer from the early 1980's. Movies and other popular media culture serve as a window to the social setting. Compare the movies made today with those made in the from 50's through early 70's. Attitudes towards divorce, relationships, marriage and the institution of family have changed because of what people see on TV might have changed their beliefs about marriage and divorce. In those days a social stigma was attached to women who seek for divorce, but in nowdays its normal or even good.

I still remember the movie "The Next Best Thing" with Madonna and Benjamin Pratt. Most Americans who saw the movie must be really sobbing and sympathazied with Madonna. What I saw is, she was a fucking b****. All Madonna wanted is to have a kid, but doesn't want to get married or involved in a relationship. So she lived with this gay guy and had sex with him just to conceive a child. No more than that. Then Benjamin Pratt comes along who is a hotshot investment banker from New York. She comes home and breaks the news, that she has this hot date and everyone goes like "woooooo". How often do American b*****, get investments bankers as their date..? Then they go to this classy fancy restaurant with a waiter with a french ascent. What the fuck man..? Most Americans don't even live like that. And the story goes on and on with this gay guy gets fucked over by Madonna, when she gets the custody of their child. Americans hate gays, I know that for sure. I have seen that on CNN and FOX during the 2004 presidential elections.

Most pussies who were seeing the movie probably think that all their dates should be an investment banker, an attorney, stock broker and all other guys are LOSERS. The series I hate most is "Sex and the City" and "Friends", these bitche..**s probably had dated half of New York City's white males and had never found anyone compatible with them. These chicks eat their breakfast, lunch and dinner in fancy european type restaurants. What the fuck is this ..? Probably only 5 % of the US population can afford to live like that. They and now movies don't even potray how the majority of Americans live. Thats why Americans have so much of credit card debts over their head, because they spent, spent and spent and no savings. Americans have probably have the lowest savings rate in the world, because they have to spent so much just get a serious girlfriend. You guys are fucked. I know Americans spend on the things too, but you guys are still fucked given your social situation. Most over 45 middle class male Americans are loners..divorced, no friends, have an average paying job, paying for child support, credit card debts, loans and lots of other shit goin on.

Is this the greatest country in the world..? Probably you guys have the strongest military in the world, but still got your ass kicked in Vietnam and almost got your ass kicked in Midway and Okinawa. Most Americans think that American way of life is correct and the superior one, and blessed by god and all other cultures have to learn from the Americans about their way of life. A lot of societies in Asia believe that their kids will take care of them when they grow older from the Far East to India, in Hindu and Buddhist societies. {Note: The nation of India is located in Asia, not in the Middle East or in a different planet}. So they are not fucked anyhow, even if they don't have material possesions, AC , SUVS and all other worldly possesions. Thats all for now, I do not mean to offend anyone but I have my opinions too, just like I myself have to see on American movies and propaganda news talk shit about other countries.

MeMek Lover

[CBGBConnisur]

People come to America from around the world for one thing and one thing only,
MONEY!!! Everything has a price tag in America, EVERYTHING!! As far as Freedom I have a hell of a lot more freedom in Australia than I did in the US. Dickhead's found a lot more freedom in Argentina.

[Darkseid]

I agree CBGB. I myself am guilty of this because I came back here to gather up more money to live free and clear in a third world country like Brazil only now, I must save more and plan better because I did not save enough for a US oil caused recession like we have now. Europe also has the same type of recession because the Euro is almost equal to the dollar. It fell from $1.30 to $1.17 per Euro now because Europe gets hit harder than the U.S. with oil price increases. I did not find any opportunities that pay enough in Rio so I mostly lived on my interest and dividends on my 401K plan and the half of a year unemployment checks I got immediately after quitting (NYC now limits unemployment down to 1/2 year and you must QUALIFY for welfare -which mean you must have kids. Hmmm... an incentive for more lazy AWs to leech off of us taxpayers!!!) I made too much money from dividends and interest on my annuities and I am not married or divorced with kids so I didn't qualify. As for my last year there, I had to borrow money against the principle to and now am paying it back which is because of Bushonomics and his devaluing U.S. currency.

[Doctor_Skank]

Chocha Monger:

Great posts, interesting stuff.

MeMek Lover:

With all due respect... Okinawa and Midway? Go back to history class, you missed a chapter or two. The Pacific war was totally lopsided after Midway, which was a catastrophic defeat for the Japanese.

But this isnt about history, its about American women.

Even though I know this thread is really just about how shitty America and American women are, dont forget that despite all the problems, America still leads the world in many areas and anyone who has been to India, Colombia, Phillipines, Russia or whereever knows how seriously fucked up those countries are as well... we are just interested in fucking their women, otherwise I dont think any American or European would really want to live there. CBGB may have gotten lucky with Australia which does seem to be "best of both worlds" in many aspects, including those qualities that are American in nature without the puritanical hangups.

As for income, American white collar workers are the best paid in the world and American and English businessmen... I know this from personal experience having conducted business around the world... are some of the hardest-working, most creative and entrepreneurial in the business. So there is a reason why a lot of us are living large...

...problem is, the perceived standard of living in America is so artificially inflated that even the working class feels like they somehow inherently deserve ridiculous SUVs, plasma TVs etc.... and American women are only interested in social status and comfort. Much of the rest of the world, fueled by American media, whether television, pop music, Hollywood or whatever, perceives America as either the American Dream or the American Nightmare, with the truth lying somewhere in between.

But is a woman's desire for social status and comfort (money) really an American phenomenon?

My experience in EE, Europe and Asia provides mixed impressions, with Europe perhaps being the least money-oriented culture... probably because northern Europeans live so comfortably as it is that the concept of poverty is truly foreign to them. The trend is changing, but I dont know many Europeans with a true understanding of what its like to live in a trailer court or on the street. A guy earning middle class wages is considered a good catch for most girls in Europe and they let love and affection steer their amorous motivation as much as expensive cars or flashy clothes.

EE women definitely want a comfortable life and I dont blame them. They even have their own word for it, sponsorship. They are attracted to overt symbols of success, whatever that may be. A rich man, looks and age irrelevant, can keep one or more hot young things as toys as long as he pays for their apartment, car, clothes etc. For these girls, usually pretty girls from villages, this is a much better alternative than being stuck with some younger guy with neither money or future perspective... and certainly better than outright prostitution or working in a factory 6 days a week for $200 a month at best.

Asian women usually marry for social status, period.

I cant comment on Latin women as I dont know them well enough.

America has a lot of problems, one of the most significant, at least from our perspective, is the increasingly fucked dating/marriage scene in America. I agree, fucked up and getting more fucked up. Other problems, whether social or economical, are worldwide, relative and hardly unique to America.

There are currently ongoing race riots in over 300 French cities. Africa is totally corrupt with little hope of short-term improvement. The Chinese economy is basically based on a form of modern industrial slavery. Male-female relations in India are based on centuries old social structures and even more fucked than in America. So kindly keep things in perspective.

[CBGBConnisur]

The Chinese have been cracking the "whip" both literally and figuratively, still of the larger countries, its the fastest growing. Europe's economy sucks because the people are just lazy from what I have seen. Simple transactions like buying a soda take 15 minutes. Australia's in the lucky position of supplying China and other rapidly growing Asian countries with supplies and machinery as well as a huge influx of immigrants from Asia. US workers get paid better, but rarely get an opportunity to truly enjoy it, you can have your cake but what good is it if you can't eat it?

[Cyberdas]

the article sheds more positive light than the title suggests. interesting how a new bill is aiming at curtailing some of the practices with mail-order brides.

by deepa babington
mon nov 7,10:03 am et


new york (reuters) - it took natasha a day trip to moscow to find the american husband she had dreamed of. it took the next six years to get out of the nightmare that followed.

a music teacher from central russia, she was one of 200 russian women who patiently lined up at a moscow restaurant to meet 10 american men at a gathering hosted by a mail-order bride agency.

she spoke no english but immediately caught the eye of one of the men, 16 years her senior. he was handsome and said he wanted the same things she did: a loving family and children. they went to museums and the theater with an interpreter, and he started the paperwork to bring her to the united states as his wife.

the fairy tale ended eight months later. natasha, who would only be identified using a pseudonym, had barely set foot in the united states when her new husband began to abuse her sexually, disappeared for weeks at a stretch, threatened anyone who tried to befriend her and forced her to sign a post-nuptial agreement.

thrown out of their house after two years of abuse, natasha was left to fend for herself in an unfamiliar country with minimal english skills and no legal documents to work.

"he told me i was the most expensive toy he ever bought," said natasha, who has since divorced and had her immigration case reopened with the help of a women's group after gaining official status as an abused spouse.

womens' rights advocates say natasha's case is hardly unique in the world of mail-order brides. indeed, anecdotal evidence suggests it is becoming increasingly common. three mail-order brides have even been killed by their husbands in the last 10 years in the united states.

once the domain of those unlucky in love, mail-order bride web sites are now increasingly being prowled by predatory abusers and serial [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127), says layli miller-muro, of the virginia-based tahirih justice center which represents several abused brides. a survey by the group found that 50 percent of 175 u.s. legal-aid groups had been approached by abused mail-order brides, she said.

marriages go 'horribly wrong'

as more cases of battered brides come to light, a small but growing movement to curb such abuse is gathering momentum.

spurred by the deaths of two brides in washington state, a new bill aimed at giving foreign brides more legal rights is now before congress. it will require the brides be informed of any spouse's criminal record and prevent american men from applying for several fiancee visas at the same time -- ending a loophole that critics say currently allows a "wife lottery."

"the statistics will show that many of these marriages work out great," said u.s. rep. rick larsen (news, bio, voting record) from washington state, where two of the three women were murdered. "the problem is when things go wrong, they go horribly wrong."

last year, nataliya fox, a bride who was beaten by her husband while breast-feeding their child, sued and won the first lawsuit against an internet bride agency. that agency offered a satisfaction guarantee for men: if the first wife didn't work out, the next one was free, says miller-muro.

"the way international marriage brokers operate currently, they make themselves an easy conduit for predatory abusers to find their next victim," says miller-muro.

mail order bride agencies balk at the suggestion that it's their responsibility to help prevent abuse.

"just like when you go on a date in america, how do you know this person isn't a (charles) manson?" said craig jay rich, who married a russian woman and founded a volga girl, which pairs clients with russian women. in six years, only two couples who met through the agency have divorced, he says.

agencies boom

all this comes as the mail-order bride business continues to grow, fueled largely by the internet.

in 1999, an immigration and naturalization service study found over 200 agencies that paired 4,000 to 6,000 american men each year with foreign women, mostly from eastern europe and asia. two years ago, that had mushroomed to over 500 agencies.

though some critics believe the business is just a few steps short of trafficking in women, most agree that many men who use them are sincere in their efforts to find a soulmate.

many who turn to the agencies want a traditional and loyal woman.

that's partly what drove chris testa to a mail-order bride. after eye problems nearly cost him his vision and several dates that led to nothing, he forked out $90 to search for women on the volga girl web site.

he soon began writing to a demure girl called elena zharkova from togliatti, a town 600 miles south of moscow.

testa finally made his way to russia to meet zharkova and two other prospective brides. eight days later, after an excursion on a tugboat, he had made his choice.

"she was the only one who wanted to meet me at the airport and she took a week off from work," said testa, a tall new jerseyan with a mustache, who spent $16,000 to find her.

the couple married this summer. zharkova says she is happy.

"i always knew he was the one for me," she said in halting english at a manhattan diner, holding on to testa's arm as she sipped tea. "i have a feeling now like i was born here."

[Darkseid]

The US worker starts with 2 weeks of vacation and the senior worker gets 4 weeks tops. I still am stuck in between with 3 weeks which is a reward for working in one company for 10 years. My third week came on my 8th year and the fourth comes on the 16th year. Europe and Australia has 4 weeks to start to up to 2 months. They could enjoy their pay but they get higher taxes which is a trade-off for their long vacations. In the US, you can cut taxes down to 28% if you write off everything related to work (or what you MAKE related to work like gas, lunches with "clients" during lunchtime if you eat out, and clothing for work (I write off clothing I am required for work because of the dress code.) In Europe, they pay 45% of their money to the government. I don't know if this is true but I interviewed a couple of German guys in an FKK club about this. This comes out to be the same because if you calculate the number of hours and pay, it evens out. The only difference is that you live in a more free country in Europe or Australia than you do in the US where feminism and censorship has taken over.
I would not want to work in Asia or South America because they do crack the whip and they also give you just 2 weeks vacation. I tried working in Brazil but for the same telecommunications job, they only pay 50,000 Reais (back then it was $12,500 but now it is $25,000 with the devalued dollar). I interviewed for the job and they told me these conditions but I refused because I was able to collect my dividends and annuity payments without working that hard. Some telecommunications engineers down in Brazil sometimes work 50 hours a week in the office like here in the US.

[Cyberdas]

TAMPA, Fla. - Two Carolina Panthers cheerleaders were charged after their arrest at a bar where witnesses told police the women had sex in a restroom.

Renee Thomas, 20, of Pittsboro, N.C., and Angela Keathley, 26, of Belmont, N.C., were taken to Hillsborough County Jail early Sunday.

Witnesses said the women were having sex in a stall with each other, angering patrons waiting in line to get into the restroom at the club in the Channelside district.

Thomas was charged with battery Sunday after allegedly striking a bar patron when she was leaving the restroom, then landed in even more trouble after police said she gave officers a driver's license belonging to another Panthers cheerleader who was not in Tampa.

Thomas, who made the trip to Florida for Sunday's game between the Panthers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers, was released from jail on $500 bail before police learned she was not the person she claimed to be.

Providing police with a false name is a misdemeanor. However, Thomas was charged Monday with giving a false name and causing harm to another — a third-degree felony punishable by probation or a jail term of 1 to 5 years, said police spokeswoman Laura McElroy.

Meanwhile, detectives are trying to determine how Thomas gained possession of the driver's license of the third cheerleader.

Keathley, charged with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, was released on $750 bail about an hour before the Panthers played the Bucs at Raymond James Stadium. The cheerleaders were not in town to perform at the game.

[Rock Dog]

It occurs to me that women all over the world share at least a few fundamental traits. Many have written posts stating the exact opposite, but I think they are wrong.

It's true that it's hard to find a decent girlfriend/wife/partner. But, hard for who? A lot of us talk about getting a nice one.... preferably early 20's and attractive as well. The thing is, most of these women prefer someone close to their own age group. For a girl in her early 20's, that means a guy in his mid to late 20's. Let's face it.... most of us are 30 or over. As far as these girls are concerned, we're all a bunch of old-timers. That means we have to compensate, using other means to persuade them to consider an older man. All over the world, that means some kind of access to resources....... in other words, money.

I've heard lot's of guys talking about how great things are in this or that country but they fail to see one crucially important fact. They are the outsiders, in every single case. Go to Thailand, Brasil, Russia or any other supposed paradise and ask one of the LOCAL guys what he thinks of the local girls. The answer will probably sound a lot like all the complaints heard here in this very forum.

The reason we all get such a good reaction overseas is that we are perceived as being rich. Maybe not rich like Bill Gates, but still way better off than any of the local prospects. A lot of these women are basically pros/semi-pros masquerading as regular girls in the hopes that some foreign guy will come along and transport them to a better life. I can only imagine what the local guys in, say, Colombia or the Phillipines, would have to say about the hordes of women who wouldn't dream of settling down with one of them.

Ir's nice to think that these girls are in some way "traditional", but this really varies widely from girl to girl. Many of my wife's friends are immigrant women and many of them are just as sneaky, greedy and selfish as any north american woman. In fact, if my marriage ever ended, I probably wouldn't bother trying for another woman from overseas. Most of them aren't that trustworthy.

I've reached the conclusion that most women the world over want a good looking guy of a similar age. If they're willing to go for someone 20 years older, it's probably for the money. If you're OK with that, go for it....... at least you WILL be able to get a good-looking one.

Rock

[Chocha Monger]

Rock Dog,

You've made some very frank statements. You are certainly right that women around the world are all motivated by resources to some degree or another. Men tend to give cock freely therefore it can hardly be considered a fair exchange for pussy. It is nice to think that there are women in other countries who would suck our cocks out of pure altruism but that would be deluding ourselves.

We do tend to have more resources at our disposal than local guys in typical mongering destinations, or at least we offer the illusion of a passport to better living conditions and opportunity. I have found that women also value men who can offer physical security to them in high crime areas, while this is not a material resource it is a high value service in areas where people can expect to be robbed or assualted several times over the course of a lifetime. You'd be surprised to discover that professional women in some countries who are willing to marry someone with a law enforcement or military background foregoing the economic benefits of marrying someone in a higher paying profession.

So generally speaking men offer women resources, protection and power in return for access to pussy. The value placed on each will vary from location to location but something is always being traded. In high crime countries many women are happy just to have a capable man around with a modest income. Of course, you will also find those who want it all too. However, you will find less of these types in countries where the media doesn't tell them that they are entitled to having it all.

Any woman who is eager to leave her friends and family behind and depart her home country to live with a foreign man who she has recently met is immediately suspect to having more on her mind than being a good wife. One should always state intentions of remaining in her homeland and maintaining a modest standard of living.

Anyway, with washing machines, pre-cooked meals, microwaves, affordable cleaning maids and adoption, is there anything that a man really needs a woman for other than a regular supply of sex? After all, our woman woes only begin at the point in our lives where we discover erections and how much fun it is to poke women with them. Perhaps, the problem is really our inability to stop feeling horny. If we were able to do that I think most if not all of our problems would be solved.

[Bart9000]

Good Posts here recently.

A friend of mine, who is basically, a 24 year old Czech hottie, when I told her I planned to settle down at 40 or so with a young EE girl read me the riot act. She told me that a young girl who is with a man of 40 exclusively wants his money...she will fall in love with a man who is young and handsome, but....

I did take what she said to me seriously to some degree-I'm moving the "serious search" up maybe as early as 36 (1.5 years off).

However, all of that being said, I personally believe that a maximum 15 year age gap is manageable-with a girl who is at least 23 or so.

Also, I do know that there are girls who prefer MEN, both here, and overseas. Everyone here has heard of schoolgirl/co-eds having crushes on/affairs with their teachers/professors-and these guys generally aren't under 40 . One of my high school teachers actually married a former student of his...she was in his class in the FIFTH grade (this took place when she was 22-23 to his 40 or so). And this is a public high school teacher aka NO MONEY

Don Steele, one of the dating guru's we were discussing a while back, basically makes a living teaching 35-55 year old guys how to have affairs with co-ed aged girls. Per him, it can be done-but it won't be done by a sweaty fat slob, badly dressed, reeking of desperation guys.


Bart 9K

[Darkseid]

[/QUOTE]

Ir's nice to think that these girls are in some way "traditional", but this really varies widely from girl to girl. Many of my wife's friends are immigrant women and many of them are just as sneaky, greedy and selfish as any north american woman. In fact, if my marriage ever ended, I probably wouldn't bother trying for another woman from overseas. Most of them aren't that trustworthy.

Rock[/QUOTE]

This would be the problem of bringing a foreign woman to America- they get assimilated into American feminism like the Borgs in Star Trek. In fact, the ones who try to act "American" can be just as bad as American women themselves. There is always an American woman here who would teach them the feminst way like what happened to my former Cuban immigrant ex-fiancee.
So, to keep them traditional- DON'T BRING THEM TO AMERICA. If they are after your money, why would they go back with you to America which is a place where you are in the lower class and live poorly when they can live like a queen off of the money you have now and live wealthy in their own country? My former Brazillian girlfriend made that point when she decided to stay in Brazil and also hates the rat race in the USA of keeping up with the Joneses. In fact, she wanted ME to stay in Brazil.
If the girl does want to come live with you in America, that's a bad sign so I would stay away from that girl like she is a plague.

[CBGBConnisur]

The AW syndrome is not a disease exclusive to women of white European Christian origin. Some of the worst and most annoying AWs, the type that have given me angry thoughts, are Brown, Black, White, Yellow, and Red. They are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Athiest, and of whatever other religion is out there. Feminists come in all colors and creeds in the USA and they love to spread their message worldwide. I actually knew quite a few Asian and Hispanic women in the city where I lived in the US(half of the borough of New York where I resided was practically Asian and Hispanic), I remember a very colorful episode on a bus where a Korean American girl was arguing with her boyfriend saying "I'm no mail order bride." and other stuff, it led me to the conclusion that our fast paced urban culture in the US is extremely polarizing.
I have been in a relationship for the past year with a Bulgarian woman about 10 years younger than me, I met her Europe and took her back to Oz, physicially she could pass for an attractive white North American woman, but her personality is a world away. For one thing, she cooks, and for another she does laundry, by hand. She told me it would save us money by using less water and she thought that laundry machines damage clothes, which was the deal maker. An attractive woman who wants me to save money?

[Sinanju Master]

been looking at a lot of the past posts... i agree that women all over the world have the same motivations as aw's but like in real estate, the key phrase is location, location, location. if a guy marries an aw here in the us, what is to stop the bride from ceasing the activity that attracted the guy to her in the first place? she can cut off the sexual supply, lay around the house and get f-a-t, spend the poor schmoe's money faster than a politician can accept a bribe, treat him like dog droppings and even cheat on him. with the way the deck is stacked against men in this country, the guy can make a clean break only if he has irrefutable proof of her misdeeds. and even then, it will come at great financial and emotional costs. even if he got away relatively unrep001hed, the feminist brownshirts will lay blame at the guy's feet, even if the bride was the one with the abhorrent character. overseas, the courts are not so anti-man. armed with a trusty u.s. passport, the guy has a "poison pill" if the woman he marries and lives with in her country decides to imitate an aw. besides, when you get down to it, what marrriage occurs solely because of true love? a man is sized up according to what he can provide (any of the various aforementioned qualities in recent posts) for the woman. this in turn leads to feelings that develop into what many call love. it's not so bad that a guy is seen as a commodity: if you have your shit together, more will want to possess that commodity. if you don't less will want to possess it. if you have your shit together, it says you are doing your part and then some. it indicates pride in yourself and as a result, others are attracted to that positive quality. if you step into the ring, you don't fight without knowing your opponent or at least assessing him. you try to get the advantage over him by making the situation work for you. going overseas and making it known that you are planning on living in the woman's country instantly gets her to lay her cards on the table and you know what it is you are dealing with. you have created a situation where there are few if any surprises. getting married in the us is like going to a gun fight carrying a knife. the odds are stacked against you, unless you are clever and keep one step ahead of her.

[Chocha Monger]

Since one of the greatest risks associated with bringing a foreign woman to the US is that she might become Americanized thereby defeating the entire purpose of seeking a companion abroad, the best thing to do is not to bring her into the US at all.

However, I think that there can be some middle ground. Let us say that one was to find a woman with a reasonably decent job abroad and marry her in her own country. Instead of bringing her to the US on an immigrant visa you could allow her to visit you on a tourist visa during her vacations. You can also visit her during your vacations. This should work out well if she gets around two months off each year which isn't unusual for many countries for teachers and nurses. If you really wanted to spend more time with her in her country you could find a job that doesn't require you to remain in the US constantly or you could do seasonal work perhaps. After all if you decided that having a new car, premium cable TV, and a large house weren't that important to you then you could probably live on a lot less since your real home would be overseas anyway.

If the woman really likes you she should have no objections to this arrangement, after all she will be enjoying an increased standard of living due to your contribution to the household and she will have enough of your physical presence with needed breaks in between. This should be similar to the marriages of sailors, construction workers, soldiers and oil workers etc. I think that this can mitigate some of the problems mentioned in earlier posts where some guys are not able or willing to move abroad at this time.

Of course, the above arrangement will not work if the woman is extremely poor, uneducated, unemployed, too young and hell bent on getting to the US. Therefore one would have to rule out ex-pros and semi-pros, and actually invest some time in finding normal girls in order to locate a suitable candidate.

[Bart9000]

Not a bad idea Chocha

I'm planning to expatriate-I like Prague a lot.

Prior to being able to make the expatriation happen (working on a portable income source) if I get inclined to "settle down", I was kicking around the idea of bringing back a girl.

Generally a bad idea.

However, it might work out OK if....

1. It is for a pre-defined limited time-say 18 months. Then we go back to Prague to live.

2. Shut off the cable-no fucking Oprah or Sex in the City.

3. Provide plenty of access to her home country via telecommunications.

4. This may be crossing the line into abusive prick territory, but but basically, gently micromanage her interactions with Americans. Definitely no "girls night out"

[Sinanju Master]

Dude, you may wanna RECONSIDER #4 on your list. She may feel stifled and that will drive her away from you. Follow the advice of 38 Special (for those of you who have ever heard of Southern Rock) and "Hold On Loosely". I had a light bulb come on in my head when I was reading your post regarding #4 and how best to handle it: take your intended on vacation in the States and whenever the two of you see AW's acting like total damn fools, be sure to subtly point that out to her. Make it known to her that you're glad you chose a wonderful example of femininity like HER instead of a AW, because she FAR outclasses the two-legged toads the two of you are witnessing. At the very least, she'll think to herself: "God I hope I never turn out like THAT".

[Bart9000]

Obviously this is in the conjuecture stage. I definitely wouldn't relish the role of being a jailer/control freak abusive prick.

I was thinking more in terms of making sure that her social time at least tangentially included myself-doing things like spending time with my best friend and his wife, who are kind to each other, and pretty much interact as equals (they have the same job and have roughly the same income).and my family. Just about anything so long as she didn't end up part of a pack of American Bitches who go out every Thursday night and make sport out of exploiting and rejecting desperate American men-or as part of an Oprah watching, man bashing "coffee clutch".

On a completely unrelated and for that matter completely off topic subject, I have been watching the American version of "The Office" (one of my two and only two concessions to network TV-I got hooked on it behind "My Name is Earl"). Although I laugh uproriously at it, I find it to be somewhat disturbing because I know in fact that there actually are people (particularly bosses, which is why I aspire not to have one) in Corporate America who actually are that stupid and dysfunctional...and making big fat salaries in spite of it.

[Darkseid]

Bart,

I feel you, my Femericanized ex-Cuban fiancee had these coffee clutches on Sunday nights to bash men. Each of them shared stories of how they won arguments against their boyfriends, fiancees or husbands and how they came out "right". My ex-fiancee shared stories on how cheap I was because I objected to buying her gifts even after I got into credit card debts doing so. I was still "wrong" to those bitches and they were always "right". It's a no-win situation with these American bitches. They also give each other advices on how to force me to apologize for this as I walked into one of their meeting to pick her up. They thought I came to apologize for being cheap. I just drove off without my ex-fiancee and made another one of the members of Feminist Lesbo club to drive her home. The leader, Martha, who drove her home came storming out of her car with my ex, pounded and kicked my door until there was a dent on it, and demanded I apologize. Instead, I called the police who only stopped her from doing further damage to my door but didn't arrest her. I was afraid to push her down the stairs because I as a man would be arrested for assaulting one of these "progressive" women and she would get away with breaking down my door. This would not be so if it were the other way around in this feminist country because she would get away with punching and kicking me. She would probably not even get arrested even if she shot me dead in this country. I then filed for a restraining order for the leader of the ***** club by giving her first name and address so now she can't come to my house, but my ex must go to the meeting instead to see her. Fortunately, this request was granted. I did have to get a new Front door from this incident.
The right thing to do is to meet her friends she meets here and weed out the bad influences by speaking to each of them and also going with her to the first meeting with her new friends to make sure they are not Oprah followers. If her friends are bad influences, I would get her to meet new friends right away.

[Rock Dog]

As someone who has gone out and brought back a foriegn wife, I would like to share a few thoughts.

1. Take the time to get to know her. If this means lot's of time on the chat
line and expensive phone bills, so be it.

2. Pick a girl that has decent english skills (or whatever language you speak)
Difficulties in communication will get VERY tiresome after awhile.

3. Go visit her in her own country, meet her family, friends and co-workers.
This will give you a better idea of her background and helps weed out the
pros and semi-pros. It also helps with point #1 as you get to know her
better.

4. Pick someone who is a bit older. If you're pushing 40 and she just turned
20, your cock may thinks it's died and gone to heaven, but things probably
won't work out. Not only that, but the younger the girl, the greater and
faster will be the process of assimilation. A 15 year gap is about the most
you can go and still realistically have a chance of marrying for love.

5. I told my wife that we'd be spending at least half the year back in her
country once I retired. If they are just looking for a visa, they won't be too
keen on this idea. It's also a good selling point for a genuine girl..... most
people who have feelings don't like the idea of leaving their friends and
family behind forever. You'd probably do well to be suspicious of any
woman who could leave everyone and everything behind so easily.

6. Encourage her to have friends who are from her own country or some
similar background. Eg. have your new Brazilian woman spend all the time
she wants with other girls from Brazil. This will help her retain more of her
own culture and attitudes..... the very things that made her so appealing
in the first place.

7. Be the man! This is the most important point by far. Normal women expect
the man to take care of them, make decisions and generally be in charge of
things. I talk to my wife, ask her for her opinions and advice..... but once
I've made a decision about something, that's it... done, over, end of story.
She accepts it, expects it and respects me for it.

There's still a chance that things could fuck up. There's no such thing as a perfect woman and none of us guys are perfect either. Even being as careful as possible, you still might get one of those rotten-egg visa hunters who will fuck you over and leave you the first chance she gets.

My wife is young and sexy. She's also very dependable, but she's not perfect by a long shot. Still, she's 10 times better than any woman I could have ever gotten here at home. More than anything else, just to have even a chance at a decent woman makes getting a foreign wife worth a try.

Rock

[Chocha Monger]

I think that we must define exactly what we are looking for when we go out looking for a woman. What is it exactly that we want? Is it a beautiful young woman with full lips, proud breasts and a tight ass who gives marvellous BBBJ with CIM, a wild thing in bed who loves to do anal and has hot wet pussy with a grip like a vise? Would this woman also be responsible with money, be extremely loyal, be content to eat scraps and live in a small cramped apartment if that was all you could provide? Can she be expected to stay with an older man even after his cock shrivels and can no longer be revived with a Viagra Levitra Cialis cocktail?

Is it realistic for us to expect all the above qualities in one woman or is it perhaps too much to ask? I have found that there are many women overseas who can be good wives and don't ask for much more than enough to eat and a husband who isn't a drunk, gambler or deadbeat. However, I don't seem to remember any being more than an 8 on a scale of 10. Also, they tend to be shy conservative women who lack much sexual experience and would probably not measure up to the skill level of the anal and oral queens sought by most mongers. In fact, just getting them to try a few basic positions beyond missionary and oral sex might take up to a year or more. I don't think that many guys would be willing to invest the time and effort to turn these girls into freaks.

On the other hand, I have seen quite a few pro and semi-pro girls who are solid 9s and even 10s. These girls are bold and highly skilled sexually but I would never sleep in the same room with them unless my wallet was locked in a safe. They often have problems managing money even though they earn more than girls working regular jobs, they often get into drugs and are only loyal to the dollar.

Of course, my observations are in general and are a few exceptions I am sure. However, it seems that the more beautiful a woman is the more men appear seeking her favors, and they will inevitably offer increasing sums of money to beat out competitors. The offers of money and power then seem to corrupt even simple women who then tend to see sex and beauty as a means to an end, usually to get as much economic benefit out of it as possible. This may explain why extraordinary beauty, sexual prowness, humility and loyalty are seldom if ever found in the same package. A lady in the street and a freak in the bed might be as good as it gets.

[Sinanju Master]

Your post (and theory) is quite valid and should be in a handbook for guys pursuing such a goal. Let me expand a bit further with my opinion. Anyone can refute it at his will, and we can exchange helpful opinions but it is the general direction I will take. The drop dead gorgeous women of whom you speak that can make a man's cock feel as if it should be wearing a cape are truly the ones that I would exercise caution with. My habit of going into "combat sleep" (never falling TOO DEEPLY into sleep, but just lightly enough to be awakened at the slightest odd noise) would get quite a workout. They are ones that I would require to leave after the festivities have ended for the night. The ones who are NOT as gorgeous and not full of themselves are a bit more trustworthy in general. As for exposing them to a "wider horizon" of the sexual arena, if you first work on them to make the experience as enjoyable as possible, you can later work it (the new experiences) in subtly through conversation or during the actal event. If the new experience isn't forced (make it seem as if it was her idea, at least in part) she would be more amenable to the idea. This builds her confidence in her sexual experience, and that leads to her increasing confidence in HERSELF, which leads to her feeling sexier, which in turn forces outward, her inner beauty, which makes her more physically attractive through her newfound attitude. It's a snowball effect. If, in the first place, she was an 8 at max, and she was the conservative type, you have one half of what a lot of us are searching for. The other half is brought about by your gentle prodding which releases the beautiful woman waiting to get out. She will associate that newfound change with you and the rewards will soon follow. Any comments on that, my bretheren?

[Bart9000]

I thought you would probably chime in here soon. A few selected comments:


2. Pick a girl that has decent english skills (or whatever language you speak)
Difficulties in communication will get VERY tiresome after awhile.

I actually would probably hold out for even more than that. I'm thinking to look for some "signs of accomplishment"....basically evidence that there is something in her life that isn't "man come make my life good".


3. Go visit her in her own country, meet her family, friends and co-workers.
This will give you a better idea of her background and helps weed out the
pros and semi-pros. It also helps with point #1 as you get to know her
better.

Good Advice all I believe. I'm actually doing one better and planning to expatriate, so I will be living in her country.

4. Pick someone who is a bit older. If you're pushing 40 and she just turned
20, your cock may thinks it's died and gone to heaven, but things probably
won't work out. Not only that, but the younger the girl, the greater and
faster will be the process of assimilation. A 15 year gap is about the most
you can go and still realistically have a chance of marrying for love.

I like to see a fellow subscriber to the "fifteen year" theory. This eases up as you get older. Her 48 to your 70 isn't a bad thing. Also, 20 is probably too young to marry, even if you are only 25, as she will grow into a different person in most cases.


5. I told my wife that we'd be spending at least half the year back in her
country once I retired. If they are just looking for a visa, they won't be too
keen on this idea. It's also a good selling point for a genuine girl..... most
people who have feelings don't like the idea of leaving their friends and
family behind forever. You'd probably do well to be suspicious of any
woman who could leave everyone and everything behind so easily.

Again, even better, just tell her you are going to live there, even if is complete BS, it completely calls her bluff.

6. Encourage her to have friends who are from her own country or some
similar background. Eg. have your new Brazilian woman spend all the time
she wants with other girls from Brazil. This will help her retain more of her
own culture and attitudes..... the very things that made her so appealing
in the first place.

I could see this one working against you. They could start comparing notes and....

7. Be the man! This is the most important point by far. Normal women expect
the man to take care of them, make decisions and generally be in charge of
things. I talk to my wife, ask her for her opinions and advice..... but once
I've made a decision about something, that's it... done, over, end of story.
She accepts it, expects it and respects me for it.

I agree completely.


Bart9000

PS Darkseid....I feel you man. That's rough. By the way, about being "right", in that many women aren't bound by the laws of logic, you can't actually "win".

[Latina Passion]

[QUOTE=Rock Dog]As someone who has gone out and brought back a foriegn wife, I would like to share a few thoughts.

1. Take the time to get to know her. If this means lot's of time on the chat
line and expensive phone bills, so be it.

2. Pick a girl that has decent english skills (or whatever language you speak)
Difficulties in communication will get VERY tiresome after awhile.

3. Go visit her in her own country, meet her family, friends and co-workers.
This will give you a better idea of her background and helps weed out the
pros and semi-pros. It also helps with point #1 as you get to know her
better.

4. Pick someone who is a bit older. If you're pushing 40 and she just turned
20, your cock may thinks it's died and gone to heaven, but things probably
won't work out. Not only that, but the younger the girl, the greater and
faster will be the process of assimilation. A 15 year gap is about the most
you can go and still realistically have a chance of marrying for love.

5. I told my wife that we'd be spending at least half the year back in her
country once I retired. If they are just looking for a visa, they won't be too
keen on this idea. It's also a good selling point for a genuine girl..... most
people who have feelings don't like the idea of leaving their friends and
family behind forever. You'd probably do well to be suspicious of any
woman who could leave everyone and everything behind so easily.

6. Encourage her to have friends who are from her own country or some
similar background. Eg. have your new Brazilian woman spend all the time
she wants with other girls from Brazil. This will help her retain more of her
own culture and attitudes..... the very things that made her so appealing
in the first place.

7. Be the man! This is the most important point by far. Normal women expect
the man to take care of them, make decisions and generally be in charge of
things. I talk to my wife, ask her for her opinions and advice..... but once
I've made a decision about something, that's it... done, over, end of story.
She accepts it, expects it and respects me for it.

There's still a chance that things could fuck up. There's no such thing as a perfect woman and none of us guys are perfect either. Even being as careful as possible, you still might get one of those rotten-egg visa hunters who will fuck you over and leave you the first chance she gets.

My wife is young and sexy. She's also very dependable, but she's not perfect by a long shot. Still, she's 10 times better than any woman I could have ever gotten here at home. More than anything else, just to have even a chance at a decent woman makes getting a foreign wife worth a try.

Rock Dog I hear you on every point! I have met girls on web sites that at first glance seemed OK, but after futher research, it has turned out that her entire family was on the same site! Nonetheless a damn good lay!

My current Colombian Gal is 13 years my junior and I have interviewed everyone in her life! Mommy, Grand Ma, Aunts, Uncle and friends!

I have made it clear to her that I have no plans on staying in the States and she is fine with that, because she is truly a proud Colombian woman and loves her country!

Rock, your most important point here is be the MAN! I have told my girl and her family alike this is how I feel a relationship should be! Baby girl will get herr way 90% of the time because LP just aint that picky, but when it comes to making a decision and we can not come to a common conclusion, then LP is calling the ball, plain and simple cut and dry!

Everyone agrees with me including Grand Ma!

Rock, one thing that you left out was do not open your wallet to these girls, even in their country! Hell my girl is from Colombia and to take her to a nice resturant is the same price as eating at McDonalds in the states!

I'm not cheap, I've seen her 4 times this year alone, and everytime I bring her a thing or two from Ross, but she is just as excited when I cook her dinner or make her a cup of coffee!

[Ngp477]

I thought you would probably chime in here soon. A few selected comments: THE TRUTH IS IN CAPS.


2. Pick a girl that has decent english skills (or whatever language you speak)
Difficulties in communication will get VERY tiresome after awhile.

WHAT YOU WILL FIND IS SOME GIRLS HAVE 1) SEXY LOOKS, 2) GREAT ENGLISH SKILLS, OR 3) GREAT SWEET PERSONALITIES. PICK ANY 2 AND YOU WILL BE LUCKY TO FIND 2.

6. Encourage her to have friends who are from her own country ...
I could see this one working against you. They could start comparing notes and....
SO THEY CAN TALK THEIR LANGUAGE BEHIND YOUR BACK AND SOLIDIFY THAT YOU ARE A LOSER.

7. Be the man! This is the most important point by far. Normal women expect
the man to take care of them, make decisions and generally be in charge of
things. I talk to my wife, ask her for her opinions and advice..... but once
I've made a decision about something, that's it... done, over, end of story.

SOUNDS GOOD IN THEORY, BUT REMEMBER, THEY ARE WOMEN. WHENEVER YOU MAKE A DECISION THEY DO NOT LIKE THEY WILL RESENT YOU FOR CONTROLLING THEM BY IMPOSING YOUR WILL.

HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH RUSSIAN, ASIAN AND LATIN IMPORT WOMEN, AS WELL AS AMERICAN BITCHES. TRIAL AND ERROR IS ALL YOU CAN HOPE FOR. IF YOU FIND ONE YOUR DICK LIKES, DON'T DENY IT. WITHOUT GOOD SEX THERE IS LITTLE FOR A RELATIONSHIP TO LAST.

YOU WILL BE FUCKING AROUND ELSEWHERE IF THE SEX IS NOT GOOD.

[Lima Busy]

I have read some very interesting reports by some of you guy's recently and I would like to add a few comments, (BUT!) I believe this conversation should be moved over to the "marrying a foriegn women" forum for the benefit of the guy's that have no interest in "AW".

LB

[Bart9000]

How to keep your brand spanking new, pretty, young thin, kind humble, polite foreign wife/fiance from turning into a cut throat, man exploiting, greedy materialistic ***** is absolutely pertinent to the forum topic.

[Darkseid]

Your post (and theory) is quite valid and should be in a handbook for guys pursuing such a goal. Let me expand a bit further with my opinion. Anyone can refute it at his will, and we can exchange helpful opinions but it is the general direction I will take. The drop dead gorgeous women of whom you speak that can make a man's cock feel as if it should be wearing a cape are truly the ones that I would exercise caution with. My habit of going into "combat sleep" (never falling TOO DEEPLY into sleep, but just lightly enough to be awakened at the slightest odd noise) would get quite a workout. They are ones that I would require to leave after the festivities have ended for the night. The ones who are NOT as gorgeous and not full of themselves are a bit more trustworthy in general. As for exposing them to a "wider horizon" of the sexual arena, if you first work on them to make the experience as enjoyable as possible, you can later work it (the new experiences) in subtly through conversation or during the actal event. If the new experience isn't forced (make it seem as if it was her idea, at least in part) she would be more amenable to the idea. This builds her confidence in her sexual experience, and that leads to her increasing confidence in HERSELF, which leads to her feeling sexier, which in turn forces outward, her inner beauty, which makes her more physically attractive through her newfound attitude. It's a snowball effect. If, in the first place, she was an 8 at max, and she was the conservative type, you have one half of what a lot of us are searching for. The other half is brought about by your gentle prodding which releases the beautiful woman waiting to get out. She will associate that newfound change with you and the rewards will soon follow. Any comments on that, my bretheren?

I agree with this. Since American women are generally fat or turn fat after marriage, They are more conservative and are ashamed of showing their body and because they are ashamed of their fat bodies, They don't like to be nude and because they don't want to be nude, they won't have sex even if they are told by you that they ARE sexy to you and that is because others tell her she is ugly. An American woman trusts others more than they trust their own spouse. This is due to feminism and disobedience to their men. American women don't care about the opinions of their spouse and only care about other womyn's opinion of them in their sisterhood. Of course, feminists accept or even encourage obesity and would even do each other in their girl powwows. The Ameircan 10 would now become a 1.

Foreign women put their trust in their man because of their obedience to them. Their man tells them they are sexy so since feminism is absent in foreign women, they listen to their man and they are more likely to go nude and when they go nude, they are more likely to have sex more often and GAIN experience from having lots of it through trial and error. Since the 8 has more confidence, they also will become 10s because they would put more effort and see the results on how pleasing they are to their husband. Those who bring back the foreign women must keep them away from these backyard sisterhoods and prevent them from becoming "Strong American Womyn" or "Progressive Womyn" (more like Regressive or Neanderthal Womyn because these dummies can't even spell.)

[Monger#77]

if i am going to bring a woman here, how old should she be? i want to have her during her peak years of beauty. i've had gfs in their late 20s and seen pictures of them from their early 20s that blew me away. kinda made me feel cheated in a way.

i also want to have some time before she gets "baby-rabies." if i get her after age 25, she may want to get pregnant in 3 years. i would want her to at least get her green card before she got pregnant. that way, if it was just for citizenship, she'd leave me before she had a child, and i wouldnt get nearly as raped as i would if we had a child together (that would mean she'd get child support, custody of the house).

but i dont want them to be too young either. i think she should be just old enough where she had completed her education/job training so that she could come here, learn english if she is not proficient, and then go straight to work. i figure as long as i am not giving her some grandiose lifestyle and she is capable of supporting herself, i wont have to pay alimony in the event she decides to leave.

i know this polish girl who came here when she was 17. she is still shy and submissive. she wants to get married, stay home and take care of the kids. i dont have any real experiences with polish women in poland to compare her to, but she is about 1000 times sweeter than the average american girl even after being here 5 years.

what are your opinions on this, fellas?

also, would you pick a argentinian/chilean white or a czech/hungarian?

[Sinanju Master]

Tyhigs77, if you bring a young honey to the US for a permanent basis, you are almost certainly guaranteeing the fact that she will bail on you the first opportunity she gets. This opportunity will manifest itself from a number of factors, a couple of which I will list.

1] After living with you for a while, her gaze may stray to a guy she thinks has more (money, cars, houses, etc) than you and you will be disposed of faster than a soiled sheet of toilet paper. She has the sexual resources that will enable her to at least TEMPORARILY snag her target and dump you.

2] She may congregate in this country with women from HER country who have resided in the U.S. much longer than she has and these converts will "educate" her about what she can do (get away with) in a relationship. These things she may NOW want to get away with are: constantly demanding material things, being less fllexible in her approach in the relationship, demanding her "space", making friends that are clearly detrimental to your relationship and so on.

I was watching Dateline on Friday and one of the stories sort of parallels your question. The story was about the Himalayan Kingdom of Bhutan. One of the government officials was worried that their simplistic, unspoiled way of life was in danger of being erased forever because of the ever rising tide of Western influences (the Internet, greed/desire for material possessions, etc) upon the youth of the country.


Once a young honey is exposed to the cornucopia that is America, she will do whatever it takes to get MORE and MORE. You will be powerless to stop it once it takes hold. If you move to the honey's country, several things will happen: 1] SHE will have what many of her friends do NOT have: a relatively wealthy boyfriend (remember I said RELATIVELY) and you KNOW how women compete. As a result, she will treat YOU as the catch you are. 2] She will not be directly exposed to the "gotta have MORE" culture of the U.S., so more of her personality that you fell for will be retained. You won't have to deal with a change in attitude that living in America would bring about, because there won't be any Feminazis around to poison her mind. 3] In moving to her country and learning her language, you will gain a worldly experience that many chicks find attractive in the first place. I know a lot of this stuff is difficult to carry out because of the financial and logistical hurdles, but it's a lot less difficult than extricating yourself from a situation if you eventually got married to the young honey, had kids AFTER she got her green card, and then decided she made a mistake. She just hit the lottery and you will be the entity financing her lifestyle while you are living out of a cardboard box on the sreet. Bart9000 is about to embark on what I plan on doing when I get my shit together and I'm interested in reading about his progress. You, Tyhigs77, also should keep apprised of the developments to see IN ACTION what many of us are talking about.

[Chocha Monger]

Tyhigs77,

First ask yourself, "What's in this for me? Are the risks that I am taking justified by the possible rewards?" This may sound a bit selfish but it will save you a lot of time after a divorce trying to analyze what went wrong and if you could have stopped it. In the USA marriage is a business contract and the terms are rarely if ever favorable to the male party. Be sure to separate any giddy feelings of love and lust from business before even considering taking the plunge, step back and coldly contemplate what you will be up against in the worst case scenario.

Is it worth losing your ass in divorce court and then paying child support for 18 years or more for some kids who you probably wouldn't be allowed to spend time with? This is what you'd be risking in order to parade around that incredibly hot piece of young ass on your arm and be the envy of all the sex starved men in America. They will want to fuck her too, and they will surely try their best to do it offering her much more than you can ever hope to give her. Both men and women will covet the beautiful creature at your side and they will conspire to possess her for themselves.

Imagine if you will that you have a very expensive diamond encrusted gold watch on your wrist. You go about your business everyday and people notice your watch and compliment you on your fine taste. You enjoy the attention that your fine piece of jewelry brings, until one day on your way to your car an armed bandit puts a gun in your face and takes your beautiful watch. You are powerless to do anything about it, and you wistfully think that it was not such a good investment after all because you must still make the payments on the loan that you took to buy it.

You have given the green card and divorce issue some thought but have forgotten a factor in the equation, a sleazy divorce lawyer. Once her lawyer gets involved you can forget about her just being satisfied with having gotten a green card and going on her merry way. He/she will tell her that you took her away from her friends and family, brought her to a strange country and therefore owe her some form of support. If you were married for a short time with no children you'll probably be lucky to escape with temporary alimony for a two or three year period. As far as kids are concerned don't think that you'll have any control over when and if they happen, I don't believe for one moment that you'll be consistently banging that incredibly hot piece of ass with your dick wrapped in a condom.

[Sinanju Master]

You brought up a point that I TOTALLY forgot but is a metaphor that will make a man actually THINK. If a man wants to marry a woman PERIOD (her birth country is irrelevant) ask yourself: "Is this someone I would want to go into business with"? IF your answer is YES, and you trust the person you would want to go into business with, then by all means, go ahead with the union. Remember, marriage is like a business a partnership, and you need your partner at times to watch your back. IF at all, you feel that you have to watch your back against the world IN ADDITION to worrying about your business partner, KILL THE DEAL! BOTH partners need to bring to the table attributes that will ensure the CONTINUED well being of the marriage/business.

[Rock Dog]

Tyhigs,

I wish you luck in your quest. Take it from me, it IS possible to find a good one out there. Even if there's a 50% chance of failure, that's still better than what you'd get here.... at least you'd get to spend a couple of years with your hottie right?

Whatever you do, don't go for a woman in the 18 - 21 yr old range. Once she gets here and starts going out to the clubs, you'll never see her again. Also, try and pick one that has some education and a regular job. That alone tells volumes about a womans' character.

There's another thing that I have been doing to keep my woman firmly by my side. Once every couple of months I give her some money to send back home to her parents. It's only a few hundred which is no big deal for me and it serves a few purposes. For one, it shows her my generous side..... that I care about her family which makes me look pretty good. For another, it would make her hesitate about ever leaving me. In her country, 2 or 3 hundred is a lot of money. The next guy might not want to send any money like that..... which would leave her in the awkward postion of explaining why she left me to her parents.

You've got to do one more thing...... and this one is the hardest of all. Be honest with yourself. Are you a little bit older, or a lot? Do you keep in shape? Have you got enough resources to take care of a family, or are you just getting by? It doesn't take THAT much to keep some women happy...... a nice house in the suburbs, plently of groceries in the fridge and a trip back home once in a while should keep a good woman happy.

If at all possible, I'd also recommend that you have your future sweetheart come for a visit for a few months BEFORE you get married. If she's a sneaky little ho, you'll have a lot better chance to find out before it's too late.

Rock

ps. whichever country you do decide to go to, you're gonna feel like
superman! It won't be which girl wants you, it will be which girl do you
want. So don't go all crazy for the first one you meet.

[Monger#77]

Thanks, guys.

OK. So would a French, German or Dutch girl be better? Since they are western and have been exposed to most of this nonsense already? They have similar if not worse divorce laws. My chances with snagging one of these ladies is greater than with American. And they have a different brand of feminism, which I think is more tolerable.

I still dont see how I'd have to pay support if she makes enough money to support herself and I dont provide her with an extravagant lifestyle which she couldnt afford on her own.

She's free to leave at any time. But the issue is that she should not be free to leave with my cash or my child. I can accept that women fall out of "love."

[Sinanju Master]

Tyhigs77, are you for REAL???? Even if she DOES make enough to support herself, the American justice system sees the woman as the more qualified caregiver, while it sees the man as the means of financial support. That being said, usually, the courts will award custody to the WOMAN and ALLOW the man to see the kids at the behest of the woman. All the while, the woman will list the expenses of childrearing to the court system and they will not question it AT ALL. Basically, the woman will receive the child custody payments and apply LESS to the child than she will to HERSELF and her selfish needs. SO, basically, you would be supporting her lifestyle (partying on the town with her gf's and fucking her new man, who makes NO contribution to the kids' well-being) while YOU would have to almost live on the street in a cardboard box. Logic doesn't rule the American court system, FEMINISM does.

[Monger#77]

IUD. Norplant. Depo.

[Bart9000]

I love it!!! I know exactly what you are talking about. The $6 an hour 19 year old cashier at my local grocery store who can't stand even the hint of possibility that she could put off enslaving herself to a child until she is moderately mature, financially stable, and has located a man with the same qualities who is able and willing to support her and child.

I can only speak about the Czech Republic with my limited experience-I suspect that the rest of Europe has similar attitutdes. Czech girls's do not appear to have "the disease" (also many are infertile-not sure why). Possibly, they aren't as sheltered from reality as young AW and realize how big of a burden they are undertaking.

Also, here is an easy fix for not depriving yourself of the girl's smoking hot early twenties (I understand what you mean about the "cheated" thing-you guys know that it makes me insane that they predominantly only give ass to scumbags when they look like that), but still having her be reasonably mature when decide to make a permenant committment.......very simply SELECT her when she is 21 to your 36 (or whatever-there seems to be some degree of consensus about a 15 year age gap being reasonable.), and DATE her for a couple of years until she is 23....which is a world of difference from 21.


B9K

[Chocha Monger]

Dear Tyhigs,

I noticed that you wrote "IUD, Norplant, Depo". I imagine that these are some of the birth control methods that you are pondering to prevent impregnation of your little hottie. Have you considered that these are all drugs or devices that must be injected or implanted in the woman's body? In other words she must agree to use one of the above methods or it's not going to happen.

My personal experience with Depo is that you have to rely on the woman's honesty unless you are willing to visit the physician's office and visually confirm that the injection is given on schedule, or you must administer it to her yourself. I know a few guys (myself included) who fell for the old "I got my Depo shot and here is my receipt to prove it" routine. Try explaining to your sweetheart why you must personally witness every shot that she takes.

IUD. You'd have to explain to her why you always stick your finger up there to check for the string before sex. If you're not willing to check she can easily have it removed by a doctor. As for Norplant, many women refuse to use it because they think that it's painful to have something implanted underneath their skin not to mention the bad press that this method has gotten in the past.

Basically, the ONLY birth control method that YOU can control as a man is the use of a condom. There may be a pill for men in the future but until that happens you're stuck with rubber. (I wonder if women really want men to have undetectable forms of birth control available? I can see all kinds of surprises in store for conniving females besides the loss of their monopoly on deciding when and if to have kids.) The other methods are female based and would require you to be unusually active and interested in your woman's birth control program. She might begin to see you as controlling to the point of deciding what she puts into her body, and that will not bode well for your relationship.

All I can say about French or Dutch women is that you can get them into the USA easily for a trial period. If you wish to put up with their brand of feminism then that is entirely up to you as long as you go into it with eyes wide open. As for alimony, see Sinanju Master's earlier post. Whether you want to believe it or not, it's not just about her ability to support herself. Besides, how hard do you think it would be for a sexy young thing to shed some tears while her lawyer explains to the judge that she will no longer have the support of her husband in a strange country with no family to act as a safety net in the event that she should fall on hard times?

I know that you might think that you have all of your bases covered, and that is okay. Once upon a time I also thought that I had it all planned out, that was before I went through the crucible of divorce court and birth control "failure". Now that I am born again hard as a monger, I would never make the mistake of thinking that I have figured out all of the surprises that a woman might spring on me.

[Chocha Monger]

A prenuptial agreement is worthwhile even if you're not a millionaire. You'd be surprised at how much you value your house and car when someone decides to take it away. It can also help to lessen the sting of alimony by setting out the terms in advance rather than having the court make that determination for you.

What a prenup would not protect you against is excessive child support, so if the woman is smart young and fertile she can give you lots of hot sex everytime she ovulates. Eventually, you will have so many kids to pay child support for that she wouldn't need alimony. An older lady once told me that women have kids in order to secure their financial future. I believe her.

[Deal Seeker]

That offer some protection if not all? Or is it worthwhile only if you are a multimillionaire?What about a trust? Won't that be a worthwhile form of protection short of putting money in a dodgy offshore account?

[CBGBConnisur]

Just about every single Western nation has divorce laws similar to the US, some countries are actually even worse, I can think of the UK, where its common for a man to lose two-thirds of his wealth in a divorce. Some of the other Western countries though have advantages, in most European countries, if you marry a foreign spouse, the minute you divorce, she has to leave the country unless she becomes a citizen. Germans can literally walk to Eastern Europe, Australians are a hop, skip and a jump away from Southeast Asia.

[Sinanju Master]

About prenups and green cards and such.... I remember when my family was stationed overseas in Panama, our downstairs neighbor was a G.I. who had a Panamanian wife and a kid by her. You could tell the guy was at the end of his emotional rope with this woman, because he had a nasty attitude that reflected in his everyday facial expression. My family had finally secured housing on the military base and we were about to leave for the viewing of the house when all of a sudden the daughter came to our doorstep and said: "My mommy said I can come with you". I was thinking that things at home must have been so bad that at such a young age (even younger than I was at the time) that she was willing to do ANYTHING to get out of that household. That was an example of a foreign honey fucking things up BEFORE getting passage to the U.S. In my opinion, the guy should have had loud warning bells going off in his head before he married this woman.

[Doctor_Skank]

Allow me to play devil's advocate...

One issue that should be examined, and which has been hinted on here by several members, is the importance of being honest with yourself and the girl.

Who are you and what do you represent to the girl/woman? Is your self-perception and her perception of you and her new life realistic? What do you expect of her and what does SHE expect of YOU?

A lot of guys take advantage of their new-found "celebrity" status in overseas locales to successfully woo women. There is nothing to be said against this, it is one of the reasons we go abroad as it is. Overseas and in nations where the dollar or euro go farther than at home, it is easy to climb 2 or 3 notches up the food chain and impress the local ladies.

But what happens in those cases when they come to the US (or UK, Germany, wherever) and discover that their "prince" is actually a working class Joe with a 8 year old car, a 2 room apartment and average pay allowing him to go out to dinner once or twice a month?

What happens when she sees that his social status in his home country doesn't correspond with her perception of his social status when she met him in her home country?

Of the failed intercultural or "mail-order" marriages, I am certain a lot of them were due to false advertising on the part of the man and/or disappointment/inflated hopes on the part of the woman.

I witnessed this often enough among Army buddies, coming back from places like Bolivia where as an E-6 sergeant living in an apartment with maid service etc they were "the man", but back on the ranch they were just an E-6 sergeant living a comfortable but hardly glamorous life.

I also witnessed this often enough in Ukraine, where the "mail order girls" had inflated expectations of life in the west and the guys did little to dispell these. Disappointment... even to the point of being considered a violation of trust... inevitable.

And ask yourself if the environment you are going to introduce her to is going to be a manageable one for your girl's personality. Army guys, who were often in the field for weeks or months on end, often had cheating, lonely wives. I knew guys banging an Air Force Major's bored and lonely Korean hottie and other guys whose Panamanian wives were fucking around. A lot of marriages were working, but a disproportionate amount weren't.

In Ukraine I knew a good-looking bride-seeking regular guy from Florida vacationing there and already working on getting a 3rd fiancee visa for a potential bride, the first two potential "fiancees" having gone absolutely bananas in Florida's murderously superficial "flashy" dating scene during their visits there, forcing him to send them home and inciting a great degree of paranoia in him regarding the selection process, so much to the point he was about to give up. The guy has become an absolute wreck, failing miserably at what would perceivably be one of the world's simplest tasks, finding a wonderful, marriage-worthy Slavic girl.

I think importing women is a risky and unnecessary venture... but many guys have different agendas than I do. Whether that agenda is perhaps starting a family or just as often, bringing home a trophy or a girl they couldnt get "back home", caution is advised. In any case, its not something to rush into without first making sure the relationship is built on solid ground and not just on hot air.

[Sinanju Master]

As always (in MY opinion at least) you provide good, thought-provoking advice and this is no different. To get right to the point, if I did indeed go down the matrimonial road with a foreign hottie, I DAMN SURE wouldn't bring her back to the U.S.! The aura of being rich is a falsehood only in RELATIVE terms IF you play your cards right and don't deviate from your plan of residing in HER COUNTRY. In my opinion, importing a honey from overseas for matrimonial purposes is a definite NO-NO, because if she sees that other guys in the U.S. are just as "rich" if not OUTRIGHT RICHER than you, the wheels in her head will spin faster than that of a professional drag racer and you will soon be HISTORY. Bring said aura to her country and KEEP IT THERE! She will have LESS similar samples against which she can compare you with. Once they venture down the path to the Dark Side of American Culture (rampant materialism, feminism and other excesses) there is NO turning back. Getting back to the matrimonial issue, there is no way I'd marry a woman 20 years younger than me, because there would be a huge gulf between us where experiences and maturity are concerned. 15 years? Hmmm.... maybe, but I think that may be my limit. As far as just getting LAID, yeah, I'll fuck a hot young thing of legal age like ALL the posters here. Like the other posters have said, GET TO KNOW HER and do your research.

[Chocha Monger]

Dr. Skank & SM:

You guys brought up some interesting points. Though it's way past my bedtime I will share the tale of a foolish gringo with you. This is a true story and I hope that many will benefit from the telling of it.

Foolish Gringo was assigned to Latin America where he met an attractive girl in her twenties. He was already in his forties, balding, divorced and paying child support back in the good ole USA, so naturally his cock thought that it had finally reached heaven when it got a taste of that exotic young flesh. He took his new sweetheart to spend weekends in lavish five star hotels which gave him a very low rate because of his employer. He wined and dined her at restaurants that were very expensive by her country's standards on a daily basis, shopping trips to the mall to American style stores for jewelry, name brand clothing and electronics were the norm on each pay day.

Foolish Gringo even extended his free-spending ways to her friends and family. He was considered a big man in town because he was never slow to buy drinks for everyone or to pay for their meals. FG's folly knew no limit and he even went so far as to purchase a car for his darling and to make a sizeable down-payment on a house in her name. His girlfriend had a love of strong drink, music and dance, and she was a regular sight around town going from party to party in her free car as drunk as a fish. She became particularly loud and obnoxious after several tequilas and Barcardi shots, but that did not seem to bother FG though this seemed to be the norm on an almost nightly basis. Young pussy is still young pussy even when pickled in alcohol, right?

Finally, Foolish Gringo made his biggest fuck up. He married the girl, let's call her Drunk Beech from now on, and wasted no time in getting her a green card. Meanwhile, another Americano who was dating her sister was being criticized for not being as generous as FG and failing to show his love by marrying her and whisking her off to the Promised Land. He was told that Foolish Gringo was the perfect example of what all men should be, and he was chided on a regular basis for his lack of those good qualities. However, he stood his ground and refused to emulate FG's behavior.

It was barely six months since Drunk Beech had arrived in the US when the trouble began. She complained to her family that Foolish Gringo had fooled her. His car in the US was an old beater and she was embarassed to be seen driving it because everyone else had new cars. To add insult to injury he also did not own the house he was living in. Rumors from her homeland alleged that Foolish Gringo engaged in *****mongering while he was there. She also felt used by FG because he had brought her mother to the US on a visit and then claimed her on his taxes as a dependent but did not share the refund. DB then told her friends and family that she had married FG to get to the US, but he was a "muerto de hambre" (deadbeat) and that there were many younger good-looking men willing to take care of her.

She sued for divorce, alimony and legal fees citing Foolish Gringo's tax fraud among other things. The sad thing was that there were people in Beech's homeland who knew that she was a barracuda but they did not warn Foolish Gringo because his arrogant manner distanced them from him and they figured that he got what he deserved. Today, DB is working as a waitress in a restaurant in the US. She still hasn't given up her hope of landing a rich gringo but in the meanwhile dates working stiffs who are willing to pay her rent and car note.

In case you're wondering what happened to the other Americano, he is still banging Drunk Beech's incredibly hot sister. Everytime she mentions marriage or going to the US, he simply reminds her of Foolish Gringo's folly and fucks her a little harder doggy-style until he gets a happy ending.

[Doctor_Skank]

CH: Good to know that at least some gringos are more clever... :)

SM: Glad you enjoy the posts, I can only return the compliment...

Here's a joke a Russian girl sent me... so even they know about American divorce laws...

"The father getting out late from work and going back home, he remembers his daughters birthday and that he has no present for her.

He stops his car in front of a toy store and ask the saleslady: " How much does the Barbie in the show window cost?"

Nicely the saleslady replies: "Which Barbie? We have:..." "Barbie goes to the Gym" for $ 19.95"

"Barbie plays Volleyball" for $ 19.95"

"Barbie goes shopping" for $ 19.95"

"Barbie goes to the beach" for $ 19.95"

"Barbie goes dancing" for $ 19.95"

"Barbie gets divorced" for $ 265.95"

And the man really surprised, ask: "Uummm! Why Barbie divorced cost $ 265.95, when all others price tag is only $ 19.95"

The saleslady proudly replies: "Sir..., 'Barbie Divorced' comes with: Ken's car, Ken's house, Ken's yacht, Ken's furniture, Ken's computer and Ken's best friend!"

[Angus Magee]

In case you're wondering what happened to the other Americano, he is still banging Drunk Beech's incredibly hot sister. Everytime she mentions marriage or going to the US, he simply reminds her of Foolish Gringo's folly and fucks her a little harder doggy-style until he gets a happy ending.

I love a story with a happy ending-at least for Chocha Monger. Seriously-great story, well told. I could not help but wonder if Chocha Monger was the guy banging DB's hot sister.

[CBGBConnisur]

Well the point to meeting a foreign women for LTR is to really live in her country. I have actually met women abroad who prefer to stay in their home country. The ones who want to run away with you are always the most suspect cases for goldigger syndrome. To the average Eastern European, when I tell them I live in Australia, their eyes light up, especially in the middle of a grey European winter. I have actually brought women back to live with me, some of them are impressed with the environment and others get bored and jaded after a few months.

[Darkseid]

I would never bring the hotties back to my home town of New York. Divorce laws are known to be THE worst on the planet. You are not even safe in New York even if you don't marry them. They can sue you once they get their green card because they can claim themselves as a "Common-law partner". Then they can also sue you if you have an illegitimate child as well in this city. I am safe to bring them here only on brief visits but I must watch who she hangs out with. Also, I wouldn't want her to see that i now live with my parents and have no car (NYC forces you not to have one and charges you $7 each time you drive into the city in tolls now).
I would treat the ones who want to go back to the US with you AS an American Woman and would avoid them like you avoid the American Woman because they WILL BE American Women once they come to the US.

[Bart9000]

Believe it or not, I actually envy your situation in a way. Private transportation is one of the biggest tools that the corporate scumbags who run this country use to unknowingly enslave people. Many people spend a years salary buying a car new car-with 25+% of monthly income going to the car, another hefty chunk going for insurance (more scumbags), and $3.00 a gallon for gas (don't even get me started on those pieces of shit). And due to clever marketing, we think we are going to die if we aren't in this position.

People in this country are slaves, and they don't realize it. Most of their money comes from corporate scumbags, and goes to corporate scumbags in interest and bullshit consumer spending. Their "freedom" is only an illusion.

Bart9K

PS Disclamer of Hypocracy. I live 17 miles from the best job I could find at the moment and there is no public transportation where I live. I drive an old European Sedan with 225,000 miles on it, and will gladly keep pouring money into junkyard parts to keep it on the road rather than give over to the scum.

[Chocha Monger]

Bart,

If you don't have a nice new car you will not get any American pussy. In fact, it is well known that one of the criteria that AW use to determine whether or not a man mine be "worth their time" is the kind of vehicle he drives. The larger the 25% of income spent on the car the more interesting the man.

The car obsession starts at a fairly early age too. Guys in high school score more pussy if mommy and daddy can buy them a new car. As the chicks get older the car not only has to be new , it has to be very expensive. When men go out to buy a vehicle sex appeal is one strong selling points along with gas mileage. They ask themselves, "Will I get laid driving this thing?" If the answer is no, then they won't buy it no matter the other strong points it may have.

American women used like men with sports cars but these days not many of them can fit into one of those so now the hot item is the Hummer. It has plenty of space for expanding asses and those little brats needed to ensure that you don't run off without paying at least 18 yrs of support. In the event of a divorce your Hummer will be declared the family car and turned over to your ex-wife while you get stuck with the payments on the remaining 33% of your income.

[CBGBConnisur]

I agree with Chocha on this, often AWs look at a guy's car to get an idea of his worth. The better the car, the better the woman. A guy who drives a Honda will get an average lady, thats why I see average looking women at Honda dealerships. A guy who drives a BMW will get an attractive woman, that's why I see attractive women at BMW dealerships. A guy with a Ferrari/Aston Martin/Lamborghini will get a supermodel type.

If Brad Pitt never became a Hollywood star, and worked as a chicken at El Pollo Loco, the ladies wouldn't be glued to him.

[Darkseid]

Actually, Bart has a good point. Who needs a car anyway? I should save up for a set of wheels when I make my savings portfolio even Bush-recession proof in Brasil. I could then drive around and see all the Brazillian hotties all around the countryside. Unlike AWs where a set of wheels is a MUST, Brazillian hotties are more for romance and the wheels would only be a plus because I can get around. Now, in the US, I cannot get around without taking flights or renting cars. But who needs to drive around the US anyway? I midas well own a pig farm because all I will see driving around the US are a bunch of overweight pigs with attitudes in shopping malls, offices, and clubs.
While coming home from work, I did see a 400+ pound fat chick TRY to get into a Porsche in the passenger seat next to the driver. I was laughing because the behemoth couldn't fit into the guy's car. The guy must have been a chubby chaser to bag this pig. The pig yelled at the poor guy and told him to get an SUV. So this car was expensive BUT wasn't adequate because it was TOO SMALL for the buffalo. This is why SUVs are sooooo popular in this country. Our women are getting too fat!!

[CBGBConnisur]

From most of my experience, continental European women tend to value clothing and cosmetics but are not as obsessed with a big car and house. Some Euro women I have taken back to my pad down under are often impressed with the space and modernity.

[Cebu Local]

I have a lawyer friend from Washington state who ended up marrying the cousin of Schultz,Who owns Starbucks.Being a clever fellow,He made sure everything was community property.To make a long story short,They broke up and now HE got half of her 10 -12 million fortune.Moral of the lesson,If you have to marry an AW,Make sure she is RICHER then you.btw He is paying his child support out of HER half.the best part now she is after him to reconcile,Meantime he is having a ball,though he MIGHT take her back because She got more stock and is now worth 18-20M and then......

[Chocha Monger]

Cebu Local,

Your friend would be wise to leave well enough alone. If there is one thing AW are well known for besides being greedy it is being extremely vindictive!

On another note, American guys are quickly ruining the prime pussy destinations by taking their "you can take all my money if you give me pussy" attitudes abroad. Eventually they'll learn that you can only shit in the same place where you eat for so long. See my post in respect to the matter in the "Prices" thread. http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1083 Also see the ongoing debate in the Cartagena, Colombia thread.

I am planning to set up an operating base outside of Sex Prison where I can bring a hottie or two for occasional GFE. The location will be good for excursions to areas yet unspoilt by free spending gringoes. The additional benefits are cheaper air fares to the mongering destinations, relative ease of bringing chicas back to base for a few weeks of fun without the toxic environment created by AW and sex starved men.

[Hardbarg]

Originally posted 8/4/04




I can only speak with some authority about gringos in Mexico, but I do think American men are a special case worldwide for the same reasons the women are a special case, as discussed ad nauseum here.

American men spend their lives as buyers in a dismally skewed sellers market. More so than almost any society I can think of. If they get out, they bring their baggage. Desperation. Guilt about "paying for it", or even wanting it. A lifelong habit of "yes dear" in the hopes of getting laid.

The result is poor shoppers, worse bargainers, free spenders. Most American guys can't or won't learn they have added leverage with all the women in an environment where sex can be rented without being arrested, even if they don't make use of the option.

The gringos paying silicon balloon girls $40 for a 10 minute lap dance in a Mexican strip joint when they could get laid for less a couple of blocks down pretty much says it all.

[CBGBConnisur]

I'm not one of those American men, I'm one of the enlightened few, I could walk up to a big starlet and not feel intimidated by her. My technique involves taking notes on how local guys approach the girl and emulating it. I spend about 2 months a year traveling, the other ten months down under and enjoy it.

[Chocha Monger]

It is no secret that the average American male is a sad lonely sex starved creature. More often than not he is over-worked, has little free time and even less options when it comes to finding female companionship. Corporations in the porn and telephone sex industry have known this for some time now and have made a tidy sum by providing alternatives to real sex to these men. However, the online dating industry is hungry for a piece of the largesse to the point of employing unscrupulous methods to shamelessly exploit lonely men, lead them on and separate them from their money. Many men who turned to online dating as a last resort after losing their appetite for risking face to face rejections and insults will find yet again that they've been duped. See the following news article appearing in USA Today:


Leading online matchmaker sued for dating scam


Sunday, 20 November , 2005, 08:38

New York: Match.com, one of the top Internet dating websites, has been accused of hiring people as "date bait" to date some of their one million customers to encourage them to keep paying for the service.

A Los Angeles racketeering lawsuit said the lonely hearts Web site secretly recruited people to send enticing emails to its customers and to go out on dates with them as a way of getting them to keep up their $30 monthly subscription.

The company's ringers, branded "date bait", went on as many as 100 dates a month—three per day—with Match.com customers, who use the site to search for boyfriends, girlfriends and possible husbands and wives.

"Hiding behind Match.com's portrait of online success is a very big, very dirty secret... Not everyone you meet and date through Match.com is just another Match.com member," said the lawsuit, filed in a Los Angeles court on November 10.

Kristin Kelly, a spokesperson for Match.com—which has an estimated one million paid subscribers and 15 million members—denied the charges, saying the lawsuit is "completely without merit" and would be "vigorously" challenged.

Matthew Evans filed the lawsuit, a Match.com customer who hopes it will draw support from enough other customers to turn into a much stronger class action suit.

Evan's lawyers said he went on several dates with an attractive woman named Autumn Marzec before she allegedly confessed that she was paid by the company to meet him.

Such ringers are given access to customers' emails to familiarise themselves with the customer, allowing them to feign interest and compatibility, the suit claimed.

"The paid Match.com employee then goes on a date with the subscriber, gives the deceptive appearance of having a lot in common with the subscriber... with the intent of luring the subscriber into re-signing with Match.com," the suit alleges.

The suit charges as well that when a customer's subscription was expiring, Match.com produced fake responses to customers, suggesting another person had an interest in meeting them, in order to prod them to resubscribe.

The Los Angeles suit represented growing reports of disappointment among the tens of millions of customers of the online matchmaking industry, which is led by Yahoo! Personals, Match.com, and eHarmony.

The industry enjoyed an estimated $245 million in turnover during the first half of 2005.

While the industry advertises its success stories—customers who meet online and eventually get married—some disappointments have raised questions of industry practices.

Earlier this year Californian James Hunt complained that for the nearly $3,000 he paid to matchmaker Together Inc., he didn't receive the guaranteed nine introductions of "nearly compatible" women. The company disputed his claim.

In New York, the Great Expectations dating service was recently ordered by a judge to refund money to two women who said they never got any dates after paying up to $1,000 for a six-month subscription.

"I just wanted to go out for coffee and have nice conversations with a couple of people. Instead, I got not a single introduction," said a disappointed 43-year-old who identified herself only as Jennifer. "I think I'll stick to meeting people at bus stops and the elevator," she said.

[Rock Dog]

Taking advantage of single men who just want a date with a decent girl.

That's pretty fucking low.

Rock

[Sinanju Master]

These scum remind me of the real estate and multi-marketing gurus you see late at night on the infomercials who promise riches if you just purchase their materials and subscribe to their newsletters, etc. Actually, I think these scum are LOWER because they play (prey?) upon an unsuspecting guy's heartstrings.

[Buzz00]

If we are already talking about the deceptive scum that takes advantage of these folk then here is another company that has bought up tens of these sites and is even listed on the Franfurt Stock Exchange :

http://static.matchnet.com/spark_networks_sites/generic.htm

The scam is all the same.

I will refrain from mentioning the CEO and owners nationality as I do not want to sound racist, but I can only describe him as a slime ball.

Sorry for the negative words but if one could get lower than the gutter then
he would be it.

Cheers

[Sinanju Master]

Buzz, I didn't read through the entire link you sent, BUT I IMMEDIATELY saw a line that typies the AW...

"DON'T string anyone along just because you don't know how to say "no" or like the ego boost."

[CBGBConnisur]

Matchmaking and dating services are BULLSHIT, they prey on people who know no better. I have known people who have used them, they are bullshit. The best thing in the world is to travel to another country for a couple of months to meet someone, for most Americans due to vacation restraints as well as bureaucratic hurdles, finding a foriegn bride can be impossible. I have had a lot of friends who have met nice women abroad but then could not bring them back home due to some of the ridiculous immigration laws that have been placed in the current political climate.

[Capt Ajax]

I completely agree with hardbags comments. It's for this reason, I never go to mongering havens such as Brazil, Dominica, Cost Rica during the high
season.

To many desparate guys throwing money at women who think they have platinum plated pussies. I wait for the off season when the pussy is more normally priced.



Sporadic:

I can only speak with some authority about gringos in Mexico, but I do think American men are a special case worldwide for the same reasons the women are a special case, as discussed ad nauseum here.

Americans are more provincial than the guys on your list, or almost anyone for that matter. American men spend their lives as buyers in a dismally skewed sellers market. More so than almost any society I can think of. If they get out, they bring their baggage. Desperation. Guilt about "paying for it", or even wanting it. A lifelong habit of "yes dear" in the hopes of getting laid.

The result is poor shoppers, worse bargainers, free spenders. Most American guys can't or won't learn they have added leverage with all the women in an environment where sex can be rented without being arrested, even if they don't make use of the option. The guys from the countries you list grew up knowing better.

The gringos paying silicon balloon girls $40 for a 10 minute lap dance in a Mexican strip joint when they could get laid for less a couple of blocks down pretty much says it all.

The Brits figured Americans out 60 years ago. "Over sexed, over paid, over here."

[Bart9000]

Wow, the report below about match.com is incredible. It was bad enough when I caught Adultfriendfinder.com putting up fake profiles (I saw the same picture in different geographical areas on different profiles). This is however a new low.

Internet dating is pretty much intrinsically a scam anyways (we've been over this ground before), at least for men. In this country, almost any woman who is above a 4 on the 1-10 scale encounters at least a couple of guys a day who would like to meet her, date her and fuck her-worst case they have to park their asses on a barstool for a couple hours to get laid. They have no need to use the computer to get dates. This basically leaves fuglo's and the mentally unstable/bizarre/weird/whatever. There are exceptions of course but.....

James D-Let me clear a bit up for you. I had a mentioned 30K salary a few years ago. After taxes, health insurance, and commuter transportation (which I had in leiu of higher housing expense in the city lower wages outside the city), my take home pay was just a hair over $1400 a month. Said lease on a Jaguar @$500 a month, plus another $200 to insure it would leave a whopping $700 for housing, gas utilities, and entertainment. Even a lower end normal car like say a Mustang or a Sebring costs a few hundred less, but still doesn't leave very much.....hence you have a choice between (due to the bullshit materialism of our society-guy with an old beat up car is a loser) "enslavement' and to some degree a lonely sexless existence

[Chocha Monger]

Bart,

If you ask me that guy would stand a much better chance of getting laid if he walked into a bar and laid out half of that $700 in front of a lounge lizard and whispered in her ear that it was all hers for a good fuck. The Jag while a good status symbol is essentially hollow. The guy would have to take the deception further which would cost him more money that he does not have. Plus he does not have to worry about the AW shooting him down way before he even gets her out the door to see the car. We all know that what they really want is cash so the best thing is to show them the money. You'd be surprised at how many of your normal AW acquaintances would jump at the opportunity to get some hard cash for their pussy, I know I was. You should try it sometime without being crude about it. Inside every AW there is a pro waiting to come out.

[Monger#77]

Invest in a 300 series BMW.

When I was around 20, I bought an older model BMW for around $7,000. All the sluts from my campus who wouldnt give me the time of day just a wk prior were now my biggest fans once they saw me driving the car. It was amazing the amount of smiles, waves, winks and invitations to parties I got just because these chicks either thought it was a status symbol or because they thought I had money.

Driving a status symbol will turn the most shy women into aggressive hounds. They see dollar signs. Since I suppose most of you dont live in Dorms anymore, if she asks to go back to your place, tell her that your brother lives with you and he has to wake up early, so it's a better idea to go back to her place. By the time she realizes you actually arent James Bond, you will have fucked her 2-3 days and will have dispensed with her before she has an opportunity to poke the holes in your condoms necessary to separate you from $300,000 of your future income.

Happy Hunting.

[Rock Dog]

Chocha,

Was reading your recent post and then I read the following.

"Inside every AW there is a pro waiting to come out."

There you have it...... one line that sums it up and says it all.

Absolutely Brilliant

Rock

[Buko Max]

A good friend of mine met his wife online and has been happily married for 5 years. Another friend is dating a woman he met on Match.com. She seems pretty normal but only time will tell. The only reason I would use a dating service would be to line up pussy overseas, hehe.

[Bart9000]

There are of course exceptions to every rule. As mentioned once on this board, I met a pretty young, fairly normal girl off an online ad-we didn't hit it off but still the point remains that she is pretty, thin and normal. Also I once took on a date a girl I met on match.com. I didn't find myself particularly attracted to her (slightly largish single mommy), but she was hardly a horror story.

Regarding Ty's advice, I can only add that you have to pick your audience with the fancy car. My old beater 7 series Volvo was European, bright, shiny, sleek and regal (not as prestigious as a late model BMW of course) when I bought it slightly used 6 years ago. No one out her in the sticks raised an eyebrow at it.....they are all about Camaro's, Mustangs, Monster Trucks, and fucking SUV's out here.

[Rock Dog]

In my experience, most girls don't have a clue about cars. All they know is if it's clean and has leather seats, it must be a nice one.

My advice is that you'd be better off getting a clean 6 yr old Merc, Bimmer or what have you..... and spend the money you saved on some expensive clothes ( like a nice suit ), a quality haircut and some tasteful jewelry (gold bracelet, necklace etc.). That's something that women DO pay attention to.

Rock

[Chocha Monger]

When it comes to internet dating one must often weed through psychos, whales, fuglies and people playing around online. After doing this the most you can hope for is an average girl who you probably wouldn't give a second glance in reality. My position is that a good looking AW has no problem getting asked out for dates several times a week without going online, so the fact that she is peddling herself online should raise a red flag immediately. One of my friends who didn't care much about the quality of the women he screwed used internet dating services regularly, one day he pointed out to me that the same women remained online in his area even after a few years. He then proceeded to scroll through the profiles of several that he actually dated and pointed out the false information and the old fotos that they had posted. I asked him why he continued to meet women from the web now that he knew about the tricks? He then explained to me that these women were for the most part desperate and were willing to fuck on the first date just to hold a guy's interest, they were on there for years because the type of guys they were looking for was only willing to fuck them but not have a relationship.

In short these average or less than average women were out there looking for Prince Charming but found themselves getting sport-fucked by the frogs. (I can hardly contain my laughter. The thought of AW getting fucked by numerous horny toads is quite amusing.) Anyway, emailing back and forth is a waste of time. The best strategy is to push for a meeting right away this will call their bluff and save time that might be wasted in an online relationship with a walrus posing as a hot babe. I don't see much point in using the net for dating in the US unless your attitude is similar to that of my friend. However, it can be useful for lining up pussy overseas in countries that don't have much of a P4P scene before arriving there.

As far as cars are concerned, the general rule for choosing what type is quite simple. If one is chasing country pussy think of trucks with big engines, if the quarry is urban pussy then consider luxury and sport cars. Better yet, just get an old beater of your choice and use the money that you would have spent on a hot new ride to go on several mongering trips. Your dick would be forever grateful.

[Sinanju Master]

a walrus posing as a hot babe.

A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

DAMN, I like that one!

[Rock Dog]

Chocha you are right.

The real reason most guys blow money on cars is because they think that somehow, somewhere they are gonna get laid because some girl will be so impressed by their ride.

When you go P4P you bypass all that crap and the whole car thing becomes irrelevant. You can say the same for having to have a big house, expensive clothes, jewelry and the dating scene.

It's been my experience that it's actually a lot cheaper to go to my local MP once or twice a week and enjoy the girl of my choice. I could throw in a couple of trips a year, do 5 or 10 girls and still come out money ahead.

Rock

[DJ FourMoney]

I've had mostly good and only one bad experience online.

I'll disagree about some of the things raised in recent post though.

Looks aren't everything and I know alot of men that would run faster from a woman than Carl Lewis when they found out she had children for example. There some serious diamonds in the rough online. You just have to do a decent amount of mining.

Yes its easy to pick up undesirable women (fat, ugly, whatever) and d*ck them down after the first date (don't even need the net for that). Shhhh sometimes it didn't even require that. I remember at least 3-4 girls that on the usual scale come in around 4-5, did me inside of 24 hours of actually speaking on the phone. In fact I think with one I could have done her same day if I didn't have to work.

These are women I would NEVER BEEN SEEN IN PUBLIC with, save for one or two I took to dinner outside my regular stomping grounds.

My only LTR (2.5 years) was found that way as well, so the internet has its postives and negatives like everything.

I have met some truely stunning women (8-8.5), never had sex with them, but there were things than prevented them from the usual dating B.S like sitting at the local dive bar.

This is specially true for single parents and I'm sure there a couple of dead beat fathers on here that are responsible for junior's welfare but could care less. That often puts younger women without job skills, not only working long hours at Walmart, but also working at Strip Clubs and being Sex Providers among other things or haven't you noticed?

They are as about as easy to bed, as ugly women because alot of them don't have "adult" converations and are always talking to their toddlers and slightly older children. Women desire a connection with men, even at the risk of there own children welfare in some cases.

The one bad date was from a fallen down drunk single mother, who was very opinionated about how black men should act. Now that might seem okay until you I tell you the girl was white. That is one thing I will not stand for is pretenting you know how black people should act (being only 25 yrs old and from an area that's 85% white). We are not monolitic people, there for, not all of us are gang bangers, drink 40's, don't eat p*ssy, listen to black music only, can't swim but can dance.

I do all the above, but the bangin, the heavy drinking part and sorry to imform some people but Black folk are responsible for the birth of Electronica, I listen to that as well.

Enough about that ----

Nice cars:

Especially in a materialistic area such as Los Angeles, what you roll for sure has effect on your social life. That's not to say every girl cares about what you drive, but don't roll up in some beat up bucket to the club and expect to pull any girls that saw you in that pile.

BMW and MBZ sell more cars in Southern California than any other place on earth. That makes the cars somewhat common Chevys and Pickups in more rural areas of the country. Have I mentioned all the Escalades in SoCal?

Just as long as your car is of recent vintage, clean and ding free, most women don't care. But don't expect her to ride in your Focus when her daily driver is a 3 series Bimmer.

Of course you could be the more responsible person in this example, paying back your school loans and other more important bills than having a flashy ride. Women only seem fruggle, most of the high maintainance women I know are in debt up to their eye balls and not too proud to ask you for a few hundred dollars every so often.

Personal experience.

Ah, American women.... too funny

[Starchild2012]

I think we all should read this very important article....its not about american women but it is about america......

Phony Wealth = Phony Power
by Alex Wallenwein


... and that makes the US a very vulnerable country.

America 's formidable wealth is, deplorably, based on a lie - or at least it has been, since gold was defanged back in 1971. But, what its enemies don't realize is that this defanging occurred at a time when gold was still sporting its baby teeth.

After spending three decades in a rather toothless state (except for that brief moment in history when it jumped up to over $800 an ounce from less than $!00 in a few short years), gold's real fangs are only now beginning to show.

And they're starting to bite, as well.

They will sink deep into America's soft economic underbelly before long, courtesy of America's sworn enemies - and America's very own financial powers who exposed it to this potentially fatal threat.

America 's foreign enemies are using gold as a weapon. China and the Muslim nations of the world - and now Russia as well - are stocking up on the yellow metal while the US is wasting its time by pushing a phony, shadow-of-its-former-self version of capitalism on the world which it calls "globalization."

Globalization has gutted Americans' former mattress linings in favor of home-equity lines of credit and a helpless addiction to cheap-a_ _ Chinese goods - built with pirated US technology and know-how, to boot.

Our dependence on foreign oil, and dependence on foreign consumer goods and capital, have left the US economy a walking corpse and have heaped riches on our enemies. The US economy may be a colossal corpse, bigger than the world has ever seen. It may have been feeding the world's other economies for the last two or three decades and it may still be able to outrun every other - but it's still a walking corpse.

Why? Because it's nothing but a deadly accident, waiting to happen.

The sworn enemies of anything resembling freedom are now using real wealth - gold - to kick the clay feet out from under America's tottering financial edifice. Witness Russia's announcement that it will double its official gold reserves.

How did this happen?

Easy. They had inside help.

The powers that crafted, and now make up, the financial architecture of the United States are responsible for removing gold as its foundation - and substituting themselves for it. Themselves - and their system of debt-based, computer keystroke-created windbag-money.

Their arrogance would not allow them to let something they themselves don't directly and immediately control operate as the foundation of the world's financial structure.

All kinds of reasons have been trotted out to explain away the gradual removal of gold from the world financial scene as "historically inevitable," but there are only two factors that could function as anything resembling an original cause for this: Human arrogance - and human laziness. The arrogance of the financiers, aided and abetted by the laziness of the common man - us.

The financiers removed any vestige of gold from financial public life, and Mr. Common Man went right along with it. After all, the "experts" have decided that this is better for all concerned (especially them), so who are we to say it's not? Right?

It is clear that America can't be conquered through military attack. Not yet - if ever, unless the Chinese are successful in creating their planned racially targeted bio-bomb that will only kill white people and leave those of Asian origin unharmed. (I kid you not. They are actively working on this, however remote the possibility of success may appear at this point.)

That kind of gives you an idea of their mind set - and where things will be going from here on out. And it's not just the Chinese. The Russians under Putin are drawing their own plans against us.

Russians would like nothing better than to return to their old glory days when they were officially communist and the whole world was quaking in their boots, afraid of what Russia might do next. Just like the Jews who longed to go back into slavery during their Exodus from Egypt because they missed the phony comforts they had while in captivity Today, nobody pays Russia much mind anymore - and many Russians openly resent that.

What the Muslims' aims are doesn't even warrant any discussion here. If you want to know what the world will look like if Islam gets its way and nobody powerful enough to oppose it is left, just take a look at France right now. A puny minority of adolescent Muslim thugs are terrorizing an entire country - and French officials are wringing their hands and are making excuses.

These three power blocs (added to the traditional buyers in India that have always been around), are now the driving force behind the price of gold. And the US' financial powers have handed them the key to their city's gates.

Debt-based money (money that is automatically created by legal fiat every time a bank issues a "credit" through making a loan) guts any system that comes to depend on it, the same way heroin deprives the human body of its own endorphin-manufacturing capacity. By removing gold from our financial system, these "powers" have exposed our economic flank to a fatal attack, and our enemies are now marching toward it.

So, who are our worst enemies, then? Those besieging the city walls - or those who handed over the key in the still of the night, while nobody was watching?

And what about those who neglected to watch, hmm? The responsibility for rectifying the sins of their leaders is surely theirs.

And that means it's your's and mine.

You, who read this, are the ones who know about gold. Your friends have been laughing you off for the past two and a half decades if you've been around that long, but now gold is going over $500 any second, and your friends are scratching their heads.

They are still within their comfort zone though, because the current rise in gold's fiat-ratio is happening while all of the other economic numbers still look marginally acceptable and the Dow is rising as well.

The dollar appears "strong" and long rates have come back down from their recent spike. Oil is behaving somewhat, the Chinese appear to play ball by slowly letting their currency rise against the buck, and the world still invests in America because their interest rates are lower than ours wherever else you go.

But gold is rising, partially because of the above named three power blocks, and partially because some people are slowly waking up to its potential.

This is the time when your friends and family will begin to listen.

Talk to them!

We are nowhere near any long term 'top' in gold. It's far from 'too late' to get in. Your friends, of course, will still keep one wistful eye on that Nasdaq screen while they try to listen to you. You still won't have their undivided attention - yet. But they are starting to prick up their ears.

America will not be safe from the onslaught of the foreign gold phalanx until enough people at home start accumulating gold, real wealth - at any price - before their enemies snap it all up. (I say "at any price" because gold's fiat "price" is not by any means the measure of its worth. It's only an indicator of the lack of worth of gold's competitors!)

In the end, gold's so-called "price" is absolutely irrelevant. The truth is that it's exactly the other way around, as I have been writing for so long now. In the end, gold was, is, and continues to be, the true measure of worth of all things fiat. Like it or not, it is the truth, and this truth, after having been the modern financial world's 'best kept secret' for so long, is now re-emerging in people's consciousness.

Forget about all that posturing of big financial houses, central banks, college and government economists, and of the beholden news-manufacturing outlets the world over. All of their schmonzes is now coming to the surface.

Unfortunately, the driving force behind this emerging truth currently emanates from America's enemies.

Can we afford to let America's enemies help the truth along - instead of us? Can we afford to give our faithless officials the chance to say: "Look, they are attacking us with gold, so gold is subversive and must be shunned by any red-blooded American"?

No. We cannot. Because gold is in reality no danger to America at all. It's only a danger to the Phony version, the smeared-off and twisted corporate carbon-copy called "Amerika." It's only a danger to the Ivy League crowd that spawned characters like Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, and Ben Bernanke on the economic side (and double-talking lawyers like the Clintons and Ruth Baader-Meinhof Ginsberg on the legal side) and their philosophical progenitors. It is those who raised us on lies, deceit, and debt-based pseudo money, money in which there is no safety, no real wealth, and no security.

The problem is that it is them - and others like them - to whom we gave the license to form our picture of the world. We believe it when they say that this country's fortune depends on its financial structure. We believe them when they say that a direct threat on their financial institutions and system is a direct threat on America itself.

But that ain't so.

Can you think back to the winter of 1995-96 when the Repugnicans shut down the federal government for a month or so by not agreeing to funding requests that would keep feeding the federal leviathan so they could put political pressure on Dumbocrats - and then whimped out?

Can you recall one instance back then in which this federal government shutdown actually changed your life for one iota while it lasted?

Unless you were a federal worker or depended on social security, you couldn't even tell that this supposedly oh so powerful force in our lives was no longer operating - unless you were glued to the TV screen every night. I challenge you to name one single instance in which this shutdown has even touched your life back then. I'll bet you can't find one.

It's the same thing with our financial system - if enough people have enough gold to live on and circulate it, and if the things we buy every day are priced in gold, we won't even know it if the banks turn belly-up

Let the entire financial infrastructure of the West go up in flames, and you won't know it - if people have real gold to use.

Of course, nobody has any, so it will be a catastrophe of the highest order. But if people had any sense left in them - especially now where they can see that gold is going higher and higher, year after year, and has already thrown off the shackles that formerly tied its price to a sinking dollar/rising euro scenario - they would buy gold.

If people had any sense in them, they would buy only gold bullion. Physical gold. The stuff that makes your pockets heavy when you carry it. That's what sensible people will buy.

Not gold stocks. You can't take gold stocks to the store to buy bread and butter.

Not gold ETF shares. Same problem. They're worthless when it comes push to shove.

Not gold options to make you a "fast buck." That buck is so fast, you'll never see it when the phony financial structure of the West melts down.

So, will it melt down, then?

Due to our own documented neglect, the answer to that lies now in the hands of our enemies from without - handed to them on a silver platter by our enemies within: the banker-bred architects of corporate "Amerika."

So, if and when the attack comes, are you going to be a patriot to "Amerika" - or to your true country?

Are you going to support the phony money printers and brokers, and the legislative farce they had their politician friends build around them to protect their rear ends? Will you trust their empty promises? Or will you trust the one thing that has been the bedrock of economic value no matter what any human ever said or did throughout most of recorded history?

It's a choice you may have to make very, very soon. The city is surrounded, and they are rolling up the catapults. It won't be long before the first volleys hit our defenses, and our defenses have "feet of clay" as we noted.

On the other hand, a closer look at what props up America's foreign enemies reveals feet of clay that haven't even been hardened in fire yet. They're made of mud. Their supposedly ominous 'strength' relies on even more deception and illusion than that of our own corporate leaders.

Case in point: The revealing look China's current copper-trading crisis offers to anyone who cares to point his eyes in that direction.

Here is an article everyone should read on that subject. In short: The Chinese economic miracle is possible only because the Chicoms have erected a wall of secrecy around its inner makings. A revealing commentary on its lack of real substance is presented by the fact that Chinese stocks have been languishing and even dropping, all the while the world marveled at China's "economic miracle."

I wrote before that China's wonder-economy is based on all-out money printing and bad-loan-forgiving by government decree, just so that normal market forces wouldn't push its new class of incompetent "entrepreneurs" into bankruptcy - which is where they would have to go if they were forced to operate under anything resembling a sane lending environment.

Now, that the world is putting pressure on China to let its currency "float", the Chicoms engage in some window dressing, declaring all over their news media that they are "cleaning up" their bad loan portfolio by arresting regulatory nepotists and lending-scoundrels of all shades and sizes..

Nobody knows if that is true or not. Nobody knows what the real bad loan figures are. The flow of information is totally controlled in a communist state. They could be lying their asses off and we would never find out - except for the dismal performance of the Shanghai stock exchange.

Russia , likewise, is an information-controlled environment. You think our news media stink? Try living over there. Their media remain under a constant threat of a state-initiated shutdown. The only difference in the way Putin is handling his mafia buddies (who now own the Russian media) versus how Breznev handled Isvestia and Pravda (back when the same crowd controlled everything in the name of 'communism'), is the length of the leash they are on (which, by the way, is also the only thing that differentiates our media from Russian's: The length of the leash.)

Do you believe Russians, Chinese, and Muslims are going to use their newly bought gold to usher in a new era of individual sovereignty, peace, and economic security in their respective spheres of influence? Ha! I got news for you, brother.

Here is a question everyone should ask themselves: America's enemies are now openly buying gold as a direct attack on US financial institutions. Is your buying of gold therefore a way to play into the hands of our enemies? Not at all. On the other side of the coin, though, not buying physical gold (or continuing to chase after a quick buck through buying phony gold-substitutes) is a dead-sure way of playing into the hands of our domestic enemies.

By the same token, if we don't buy gold, our enemies' attacks will be lethal to us as well, not just to our phony financial system. So, it is not buying gold that ultimately plays into the hands of America's enemies' - no matter which side of our borders they happen to be on.

Think about it.

Got gold?

Alex Wallenwein
Editor, Publisher
The Euro vs Dollar Currency War Monitor

[Bart9000]

Although I agree with the general premise of that article that the United States is headed towards being a second world country, and that creditor debt in conjunction with the gradual repeal of bankruptcy rights is creating a virtual enslavement of a substantive segment of the populace, I can tell you that this article is a little kooky.

I used to be a commodity broker. From that time, I can tell you that there are all kinds of people who have a weird thing about gold-we called them "goldbugs". I don't want to delve too deeply into that article, but I can tell you that that the price of gold is rising in part because the price of EVERY commodity is rising-largely because one of the largest groups of people on the planet (Chinese-I think that goes without saying) are rising up out of poverty and coming into their own.

Personally, when I come into some money, I'm thinking to put it into foreign government bonds..........I haven't researched the subject too much, but I strongly suspect that for example, Switzerland, Sweden, etc have a stable base, and don't have massive defecits.

[Doctor_Skank]

The article should be on a different forum, or better yet forgotten entirely. Reports of America's demise have been popular for years now and all have one thing in common... they've all been wrong.

Never forget that no matter how inept America's leadership is and no matter how clumsy our government may work, the governments and leaders of the world's other nations are rarely better.

[Chocha Monger]

Guys,

Sinanju Master and myself have been discussing price structuring in the prices section. After using SM's formula my calculations indicated that the amount of money needed to entice a non-pro falls around $431.25. It can be inferred from the fact that AW often request help with rent or car payments as the price for their sexual favors that this amount is indeed quite accurate. If any of you have experiences of getting AW pussy from non-pros for approximately that amount please share your stories.

Thank you,
CM

[DJ FourMoney]

Guys,

Sinanju Master and myself have been discussing price structuring in the prices section. After using SM's formula my calculations indicated that the amount of money needed to entice a non-pro falls around $431.25. It can be inferred from the fact that AW often request help with rent or car payments as the price for their sexual favors that this amount is indeed quite accurate. If any of you have experiences of getting AW pussy from non-pros for approximately that amount please share your stories.

Thank you,
CMI never bothered to add it up, but heres' a rough idea how much my 2.5 relationship cost me:

Total Days missed at work - 3 at about $70 per day in those days.

One day includes a trip to the abortion clinic.

$210

She worked while I built a start up company, so for one year she paid everything but the car payment and Direct TV/Internet.

$490.63x10 months= $4906.30

I paid the down and first 8 payments on her car.

$1700+2689.60 = $4389.60

At the end of the relationship, she took -

$100 RCA HiFi VCR
$150 Jensen 10 Disc Change
$200 Cold Air Intake for the car
$100 Exhaust Muffler
$100 ATI All In Wonder PC video card

Total: $650

So maybe it evens out a bit, but when she moved out of the apartment I had to make her pay her half of the rent for that month since its pro-rated. That also forced me to buy another car, which cost me another $3500.

So I would agree with you average.

[Sinanju Master]

CM, I was thinking maybe for AW's (I sure as hell wouldn't waste my time with them) the formula would have to be fine tuned through stealth. When you're chatting up your target, ask her about herself (be sure to ask about her job and how long she's been there). If one has done his research, he can come up with an approximate salary for her chosen field and execute the formula (in general) FROM THERE.

[Rebel68]

Guys,

Sinanju Master and myself have been discussing price structuring in the prices section. After using SM's formula my calculations indicated that the amount of money needed to entice a non-pro falls around $431.25. It can be inferred from the fact that AW often request help with rent or car payments as the price for their sexual favors that this amount is indeed quite accurate. If any of you have experiences of getting AW pussy from non-pros for approximately that amount please share your stories.

Thank you,

CMHey Buddy,

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you end up paying > $400 for non-pro pussy then you are doing something drastically wrong.

I make it a point to not pay for a damn thing, or go Dutch, UNTIL I am banging a girl.

Giving girls money before they give you their bodies is sending them the wrong message.

I suggest you read some stuff about becoming a pick-up artist.

[Chocha Monger]

SM,

American women would not be my first choice either, but I realize that many guys are not willing or able to get on a flight to go nail some international pussy. Most young guys are still stuck in the old model of trying to impress their way into the pussy. Frankly, I think that they can be doing better things with their money. However, I notice that I can get "freebies" from Latina chicks in the US relatively easily as long I avoid the metro areas where everyone concentrates on the glitz and glitter. It may have a lot to do with the fact that I make more than the average guy in my age group though I don't advertise that it, I guess it's not hard for women to figure out how much you make if they know your profession.

Of course, one cannot simply get rid of these women the next day as it is not a P4P deal. I don't waste my time taking these girls out or anything of that nature. If I happen to notice one who shows more than passing interest in me during the course of my daily activities I simply ask if I can spend some time with her the next time I happen to be in town. Most of the time I have read them right and they agree. I keep the target range between 19-24 yrs of age, anything more than that and they tend to be looking for The One. Another factor I use in deciding if I should ask is whether or not the girl appears to be totally absorbed in mainstream American culture.

However, I am interested in finding out if there is an amount that ordinary AW would accept to do the deed sans physical attraction and youth being on the man's side. I know they would go for a rich guy in an instant in the hopes of getting 50% or more of everything but I am sure that there is also a percentage of their income that they are willing to accept up front in return for their favors. AW often decide whether or not they're going to give a guy pussy based on what he spends on dinner and gifts, therefore one should be able to cut through the nonsense and make a straight deal.

[Chocha Monger]

James,

You make some interesting points. The whole American woman dilemma is due to far more than simply women and their bad attitudes, unrealistic expectations, greed and other shenanigans. It involves the legal system that enables and rewards the behavior, the society that condones it, the culture of materialism and the men who tolerate an antiquated system of female privilege while trying to establish a modern system based on gender equality.

One cannot claim that the sexes are equal in the US when women still expect men to pay for their dinner simply because they are women. Men are expected to be the ones to ask women out, yet women cry about being harassed by men in the same breath. Men are expected to do the heavy work and to offer assistance to women without being asked. Women keep the stereotype of being a "gentleman" alive when it suits them. The term these days seems to signify being a dog to a woman's whim and encouraging her laziness.

It is true that differences exist among American women in regards to their behavior when one considers geographic location, demographic group, ethnic background and education level, etc. However, the system in general remains constant. "Hate group" is a rather strong and misleading name for this section. I seriously doubt that anyone here harbors feelings of hostility against women simply because they are American. The resentment in this section stems largely from injustices that American men have suffered at the hands of their women who often use or mis-use the legal system and men's tendency to cater to them. Marriage and fatherhood is still a highly risky and ruinous endeavour for men in the US. There are many postings in this section that recount individual experiences in regard to the matter at hand.

Any man in the US considering taking things further than casual dating will find that the way is fraught with perils. The overwhelming interest of American men in traveling abroad to meet women is driven by more than the prospect of submissive young flesh for five dollars.

[Starchild2012]

bart, Docter , james

I hate to add it here, and have no intention to make it a continuation of what the article said and i know ever very well that its not the right place to post it...but hey i love america even though im not an american ..so I think the stress why a person like a thousand miles away from the shores of america is feeling the heat is a matter of concern...

...I know very truly well...about all the hypes and economic stories circulated for ages about american economy.....but if you are a regualar currency trader or a commodity marketers working in a back office for JP morgan ....and citi group in India and top of that felt the need to warn people out of the box who are not in the economic trade......and something not even close to making any sense in the sex forum...then there is serious trouble....i say again very serious trouble...

The big houses of the economic spectra who controls around trillions of dollars in trade..and they started making radical changes to there policy..guys
its not something to brush it aside....just hop into www.safehaven.com...even hardcore Ph.d's in economics are sooo negative about america..they know in and out of amerian economy..they fear the days are not far off..when the americans will stand in line for a loaf of bread...just like the soviet uninon and germans in world war...

Its apocalyspe at best to describe what is going to come to america......yeah yeah carry on !!....who wants to work 9 to 5 everyday and brag about economics at a sex forum..i love sexx and sexxual content should be posted here....yeahh i know i i know ....i guess i just love ISG too much to see it go down ....with america !!...

I know its sounds too comical and imaginative sort of things...guys...im just one of you happen to be at a right place to know the things hapenning up there....the secret corridors of powers at central banks and FR's..who have the power to print as many dollars as posible without any consent....

I know its way tooo early to warn ...by the time the general population comes to know about it..and some guys starts mentioning it here on ISG...im afraid it would be too late...

i can't stresss it anymore...go to www.safehaven.com for moreeee infoooo

And go and get up ur sleeeppyy asssess and buy some golddd....to make us f**k some more in ISG....when the collapse comes....i tell yaa..we would be the ones laughing our ass off and f***king those playboy blondes....yeah our time will come...when we will have the gold and the guys holding the dollar will have only use to wipe off there dirty assess....

DO NOT misss this oppourtunity guyss !!!!......I don't know what else to say...its not the right forum to express...yet the problem is it will effect the ISG....I rest my case !!!!!!!!!!!

[CBGBConnisur]

There is a distinction between getting laid and getting into a good relationship, in the US, both are often difficult. American women use their bodies and their time as "rewards" for high acheivers, the mentality of the alpha male being the most attractive is etched into their minds. In other Western countries, its easy to get sex but LTRs don't tend to stand the test of time, the old idea of a woman as a life partner only seems to exist in parts of the developing world.
As far as the gold article and America's economic decline, I have never read such bullshit before, the US economy is the strongest in the world, much of the rest of the developed world, Europe in particular, has serious problems with unemployment and economic growth. Yes one day China and the other Asian countries might eclipse the US and Europe, but for most of us will be in nursing homes when that day arrives, and we our plumbing won't be working, so who cares? You will probably see a thread circa 2030 with Chinese and Indian guys complaining about what a bunch of materalistic bitches their women are.

[Suave Gato]

There is a distinction between getting laid and getting into a good relationship, in the US, both are often difficult. American women use their bodies and their time as "rewards" for high acheivers, the mentality of the alpha male being the most attractive is etched into their minds. In other Western countries, its easy to get sex but LTRs don't tend to stand the test of time, the old idea of a woman as a life partner only seems to exist in parts of the developing world.

As far as the gold article and America's economic decline, I have never read such bullshit before, the US economy is the strongest in the world, much of the rest of the developed world, Europe in particular, has serious problems with unemployment and economic growth. Yes one day China and the other Asian countries might eclipse the US and Europe, but for most of us will be in nursing homes when that day arrives, and we our plumbing won't be working, so who cares? You will probably see a thread circa 2030 with Chinese and Indian guys complaining about what a bunch of materalistic bitches their women are.I chose this forum for my first post as it seems fairly innoucous. With regard to the "gold article" it is total bs and should not have been posted in the first place.

Never the less, While the Chinese and Indian guy's probably won't be complaining for another 24 years, the decline of the US economy is much closer at hand. It is for this reason so many of us have chosen to be/soon be expats and the benefits of foriegn women are just gravy.

Living in NYC as I assume CBGB once did opened alot of our eyes to the female opportunities this world provides. I have been fortunate to have dated recent immigrants from all corners of the world and like everyone else here have my own favorites. I would not dare to offer my personal opinion on which countries are "best" for str,ltr or marriage because women are inherently the same throughout the world. The finest woman I ever knew was a american (Hi Mom)! Ok, I guess it is time I went to the other boards and offered up some advice and experiences.

Alp

[Monger#77]

Various relevant articles about the plight of American men
_________
For the past 35 years of so, American women have been pretending -- noisily, nastily, and with the help of men who (1) are so rich that they are above the fray (see Alan Alda) or (2) want to get laid -- that they want "equality" with men.

And, not entirely but in large measure, women have attained equality in things that can be quantified. MOST university students are women. Women make up, I think, only about 30% of the applicants to law schools, but 40% of the entrants. Yes, there remains a "glass ceiling," but while women ***** and moan about that all of the time, here's the truth.

First, nearly all of the remaining discrimination against women is in the topmost 1, 2, or 5% of all available jobs. Many of those jobs require 100 hour workweeks, which almost no women want to put in. Or constant travel. Or very, very high levels of job insecurity (the average big-company CEO lasts something like 13 months) or soul-killing stress.

Apart the fact that women, with statistically insignificant exceptions, don't really want those jobs, it's true also that only 1, 2, or 5% of the male population can even dream of those jobs. So it's all but irrelevant.

In the meantime, most women want to marry men only a few years older than they are. And never-married women under 30 have roughly 98% job equality with men, and again most of the remaining disparity comes from the fact that men go to engineering school, and take hard science degrees, are willing to be posted overseas, and to do jobs that are physical, and dangerous. Women, again with a tiny number of exceptions, aren't. So the slight remaining disparity isn't worth bitching about.

While expecting job parity, women -- although few will admit it openly -- still feel that their physical attractiveness and sexuality ought to get them financial rewards from men. Yes, lesbians and hardcore feminists write crap about how this isn't so, but if you look at what women spend on beauty products, well that's pretty much proof positive.

Here's where it gets ugly. Women want equal pay PLUS "SUCCESSFUL" husbands. By which is meant a man who makes, roughly, half again as much as they do. Since most women will not marry men more than 3-6 years older than themselves (I guess if you didn't watch the same TV shows and listen tot he same pop bands, there'd be nothing to talk about) that's a lot of pressure on the male.

Plus, mathematically speaking, all God's girl children cannot have men who make more plus full equality in the job world. Just can't happen.

For all of the talk of "equality," evne women medical students look to "marry up." A survey of women med students in NYC asked, "what are you looking for in a husband" and the answer was, first of all, "someone who can take care of me financially." Since what's "reasonable" is, to the feminine mind, calibrated from a baseline of what she can make on her own (not the reasonable needs of a couple and their children) "taking care of" a doctor means that the husband has to be very, very well off.

Nor are women, again with few exceptions, willing to be primary or sole breadwinners.

If you are from an upper-middle class family, or a wealthy one, it's easy to get college, graudate and professional school paid for by Dad and use it essentially as a place to get a husband, or a credential that will alow you a decade or so of promiscuity before settling down. However, for the rest of us, spending $125K to send a daughter to law school is a waste, if in the end (despite talking a lot of shit) she will in reality only practice law for a few years before snagging a senior attorney to pay for her life.

In other words, as only a few women are willing to walk the walk, it's a huge waste of resources, and unfair to men, to continue the pretense that women intend to pull their weight, or even to help out responsibly, with the support of families.

PLUS women expect (in addition to entering and exiting the paid workforce at whim) to decide when and how many children to have, AND that hubbo will yield them up, together with half his paycheck for two decades and half of his assets, if she gets tired of him or a Bigger, Better Deal comes along.

Ask yourself honestly: wouldn't women kill themselves en masse if tomorrow the deal were reversed, and women had the deal in dating, marriage and divorce that men have?

Plus, finally, women (for all that they usually bail on their careers within a few years following marriage, if they can) are unwilling to do housework, cook, and care fo the children. Many spend most of their time beautifying themselves, having extramarital affairs, and spending their husbands' money.

Plus within 10 years of marriage, if not sooner, sex pretty much stops (except, maybe, when large purchases are made) so, it's fair to ask, what's the benefit of all of this for men?
_____________________________________
I assume from the first name that the article was written by a woman.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?print=yes&id=10510
by Loredana Vuoto
Posted Nov 25, 2005
You’ve come a long way, baby. This is what Celinda Lake and Kellyanne Conway argue in their new book, What Women Really Want: How American Women are Quietly Erasing Political, Racial, Class, and Religious Lines to Change the Way We Live.

The authors stress that “Women are the most powerful force reshaping the future of America.” Long gone is the stereotype of the woman as meek and mild, submissive to men in the workplace and in the home. Rather, the liberated women of today thrive on being independent and are paving a new future for themselves.

Lake, a Democratic political strategist, and Conway, a Republican pollster, show how far women have come since they were given the vote in 1920 and outline trends that are setting women apart. Evidence of women’s influence and emancipation includes:


Since 1950, married households have declined from 80% to 50%. One-third of American women are single and more than 22 million live alone—an 87% increase in the past two decades.
Today, 44% of all women of childbearing age are childless, many choosing instead to finish their education or pursue a career.
Out-of-wedlock births grew from less than 90,000 per year in 1940 to more than 1.3 million per year in 1999. Single-mother households have been poor traditionally, but “the emerging population of single mothers-by-choice tends to be more financially secure.”
Women own more than 26% of the country’s 20.8 million companies, generating nearly $2.3 trillion in revenue. Companies with a “higher representation of women in senior management positions financially outperform companies with proportionally fewer women at the top.”
In the 2004 election, women outvoted men by 10 million, favoring John Kerry over George W. Bush by 3 points.


Although women are a force to be reckoned with their emancipation has not come without a price—something Lake and Conway fail to discuss. Women have rejected the quintessential essence of their being: Their ability to love and be loved. This has undermined the beauty of marriage and the happiness that comes with raising a child. Women may be more successful and influential than ever, but are they truly happier?

Moreover, the trend of more women choosing to raise children alone is not discussed in terms of the harmful effects this has on children. Overwhelming research has shown that children raised in a two-parent healthy marriage are less likely to engage in drugs, alcohol and violence, suffer from depression, commit suicide or drop out of school.

The rise of women as a voting bloc poses a potentially serious threat to conservatives. As Lake and Conway reveal, most professional women see big government as a positive good in helping them lead their independent lives separate from men. Women generally want more state assistance on issues such as health care, day care, education and the environment. The issue women tend to support the GOP on is national security.

Ultimately, Lake and Conway shed fascinating light on the modern woman and her rise to social and political power. Women are reshaping America’s future. But will we like what it looks like once we’re there?

[Chocha Monger]

Rueters
Updated: 5:45 a.m. ET Nov. 28, 2005
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Four Saudi women teaching in a remote village school have married their driver so they can live closer to work, Al-Watan newspaper said on Monday.

The newspaper said the women from Al-Baha province in south-west Saudi Arabia were impressed with the man’s “good morals” and decided to marry him and live together in the village where they teach -- avoiding a tiring daily commute.

They were married in a short ceremony, and have agreed to pay the driver a share of their monthly salaries, Al-Watan said. Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia, while men can marry up to four women according to Islamic law.

[Member #4351]

James D 2004,

What is "anal breaching"?

[Capt Ajax]

For those who don't believe the rap about AW. Here's a typical posting from a 23 yr old AW.

Hi guys,
I am looking for fun gentlemen between 30-50. I am searching for discreet encounters who want to help a damsel in distress. I am 23, 5'4, 135 lbs with a 36 D cup. I take care of myself and am d/d free! I love to travel so if you are not in the Atlanta area and would like me to visit you elsewhere that is fabulous too! I love SEXUAL ENcounters during work Hours.

Oh and please cum on my tits - that is a big turn on!! If you would like a pic please reply and send yours first! Also it would help if you were rich or dam near close... Kisses until we chat

I am NOT a professional, I am a college student in need of some cash!
Thanks

[Capt Ajax]

James D 2004,

What is "anal breaching"?

LOL......it's what your ex wife does to you before, during and after the divorce.

[Chocha Monger]

For those who don't believe the rap about AW. Here's a typical posting from a 23 yr old AW.

Hi guys,
I am looking for fun gentlemen between 30-50. I am searching for discreet encounters who want to help a damsel in distress. I am 23, 5'4, 135 lbs with a 36 D cup. I take care of myself and am d/d free! I love to travel so if you are not in the Atlanta area and would like me to visit you elsewhere that is fabulous too! I love SEXUAL ENcounters during work Hours.

Oh and please cum on my tits - that is a big turn on!! If you would like a pic please reply and send yours first! Also it would help if you were rich or dam near close... Kisses until we chat

I am NOT a professional, I am a college student in need of some cash!
Thanks

Yes, this has all the typical attitudes of AW. She targets men between 30 to 50 yrs of age because they are morely likely to have a good paying job and some assets than younger men. "Discreet encounters" indicates that she is seeking married men and those who would have to keep their association with her a secret and are susceptible to blackmail. She is a "damsel in distress" who needs "help". What ever happened to women being equal to men? Isn't the story of the damsel in distress a relic of a sexist paternalistic society which enslaved women?

The measurements given are most likely a few digits less than the real numbers so this is a fat b*tch looking for a man who is "rich or dam near close". Hmm... she is a college student but yet she has time to travel to different locations to wh0re during work hours?

"If you would like a pic please reply and send yours first!" Apparently this "damsel in distress" wants to be in control of the situation when it comes to any aspiring knights in shinning armor. It appears that she'd rather remain distressed if the rescuer isn't Brad Pitt! She also gets to reject men who will not even get a chance to she what she truly looks like. Why waste these guys time? If she lets them see her fat ass then they don't even have to waste their time sending a response to her ad.

"I am NOT a professional, I am a college student in need of some cash!" I like this one, it's so AW. I'm not a wh0re, really I'm not. I just fuck strange guys of the internet for cash. :D

[Lennox]

This article makes me want to buy a one way plane ticket to one of my favorite foreign destinations...

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Fatter rear ends are causing many drug injections to miss their mark, requiring longer needles to reach buttock muscle, researchers said on Monday.

Standard-sized needles failed to reach the buttock muscle in 23 out of 25 women whose rears were examined after what was supposed to be an intramuscular injection of a drug.

Two-thirds of the 50 patients in the study did not receive the full dosage of the drug, which instead lodged in the fat tissue of their buttocks, researchers from The Adelaide and Meath Hospital in Dublin said in a presentation to the annual meeting of the Radiological Society of North America.

Besides patients receiving less than the correct drug dosage, medications that remain lodged in fat can cause infection or irritation, researchers Victoria Chan said.

"There is no question that obesity is the underlying cause. We have identified a new problem related, in part, to the increasing amount of fat in patients' buttocks," Chan said.

"The amount of fat tissue overlying the muscles exceeds the length of the needles commonly used for these injections," she said.

The 25 men and 25 women studied at the Irish hospital ranged in age from 21 to 87.

The buttocks are a good place for intramuscular injections because there are relatively few major blood vessels, nerves and bones that can be damaged by a needle. Plentiful smaller blood vessels found in muscle carry the drug to the rest of the body, while fat tissue contains relatively few blood vessels.

Obesity affects more than 300 million people worldwide and is based on a measure of height versus weight that produces a body mass index above 30. An estimated 65 percent of U.S. adults are overweight or obese

[CBGBConnisur]

Hospitals in the US also require wider stretchers, I have seen some superwide stretchers in hospital wards. I am glad I get 8 weeks of vacation a year.

[Member #4351]

OK, I give up. What´s anal bleaching? How can you bleach an asshole, and why would anyone want to, (outside of maybe Michael Jackson)?

[Darkseid]

I just came back from Germany and I've seen much less porkers there than here. However, there are German MEN that are the porkers and I've seen them as big as 300+ pound giants but they are elderly. So people have the ABILITY to become fat in Germany as well as here but yet the women tend to stay thin because they know better than the American women that they must look and stay good looking to KEEP THEIR MEN. That is because of prostitution which causes competition. They too have McDonald's and other fast food restaurants. However, the strange thing I see in the McDonald's in Germany is that the people are THIN!!! This is a parodox I would never see in ANY McDonald's here in America where they are just cattle ranches for giant cows and buffaloes. They do cook with all natural oils. Their fries taste better because it is pork oils instead of the processed vegetable oils crap that makes fries taste like plastic.

[Doctor_Skank]

Your point is valid and understood, but if you look a little closer Darkseid, you'll see that young Germans are too fat as well.

Not nearly as fat as Americans, but then again, who is? You'll seldom see the buffalo that you see in America, but it is noticeable that the Germans are getting fatter. In fact, among Western Europeans, Germans are the FATTEST. This excludes England of course, which is only topped by the US as Fatsville.

The fact that European women don't get as fat as AWs has nothing to do with the availability of prostitutes. It is because European women take pride in their appearance. It is because the European diet is still somewhat healthy. It is because people walk, ride bikes, dont watch as much television, are active etc. It is because European women dont eat all day long and when they do, smaller portions. It is because in Europe often less is more, not like in America where more is always better. It is because European women take care of their bodies. The root is probably even more deeply ingrained and has to do with the fact that European women are comfortable with their sexuality... something very, very few AWs are.

Still, even though there are lots of stylish women in Germany, especially in the cities there are lots of stylish and attractive girls, if you look closely you'll notice that there are many, many girls carrying 10-15 kg (22-35 lbs.) extra ballast on the hips, gut and ass. This seems especially to afflict the younger generation between 15-20.

IMHO, the best looking girls in Germany are either native Germans in the north, or Russian immigrants from Kazakhstan or are Turkish immigrants. Especially Turkish girls here do a great job of taking care of themselves, dressing much more stylishly than many German women who often prefer dressing like men. Shame you can virtually forget scoring with the Turkish girls.. :)

Russian girls in Germany also behave very differently than Russian girls in Russia and are quite involved in their own Russian communities, however with a bit of cultural understanding they are "open to suggestion".

Oh well, whatever way you put it, Europe is still a great place to find great women.

[CBGBConnisur]

Australian women in the coastal cities tend to be very slim compared to US and Canadian women, a lot of them play sports, go to the beach and swim. The country has 300+ days of sunshine and plenty of outdoor venues so there is little excuse to sit at home. And I am talking about women who come from Australia's Anglo-Celtic majority. I was in Germany recently, and in all honesty most of the really attractive women were Eastern European foreigners. A lot of Germans seemed rather portly, even the local ladies I saw in FKKs weren't as good as they were a few years back. Turks are interesting, you really cannot tell who is a Turk unless you know their name, I recall when I was exchanging money over there, I ran into a blonde but then her nameplate read "Oljay Donmez" which is Turkish. I saw two Turkish sisters who ran a shop, one looked like an obvious Turk, the other could pass for a dark haired Italian or Russian.

[Darkseid]

Doctor Skank, I agree that sexuality plays a major role in how people look. The sexier the girl feels about herself, the more she is addicted to staying in shape. European women outside of prostitution get a hell of a lot more sex than their American women counterparts because America creates the Puritanical environment. The US oozes in religiosity and tabooism and forbids any sexual expression. There is NO incentive for the American women to stay in shape because sex to them is wrong. This is ingrained in them from the day they are born by parents, teachers, and priests, hence they are called "sluts" if they have sex even once! American men are celebrated to have sex and are called "studs". I asked my German tutor if there are any such words as sluts or studs in German and there are none! In fact, sex is sex in Germany whether you are a boy or girl. In fact, I have seen billboards with a naked woman getting a tan advertising a vacation spot in the Carribean on busstops or trucks! In America, that billboard wouldn't even last a day without a stupid prude complaining about it saying it is too "racy". With this going on, our women midas well wear burkas because these same prude politicians complain about g-strings. This nation is all about covering up our women so women feel they can't show what they've worked hours in the gym for so they feel it doesn't make any difference if they are fat or thin.
Germany oozes in sexual freedom and expression and women wear less clothing in the summer and spring times. They feel they can show what they've worked hours in the gym for so they show it, that is why they do work out. It is because they CAN show it and don't need to cover it up. I do see a few slightly fat girls in their teens but they only have a small love handle. However, the number of teens that I've seen on my trip that are over 150 pounds are only 3. And 2 of them are boys. The overweight girl and boys are still featherweights compared to the sumos you see here in the US. These 3 fat Germans were seen in the Frankfurt area. Outside the city, I have not seen one porker under the age of 50. It seems once they reach 50, they no longer care about their sexuality and they let themselves go then.

[CBGBConnisur]

Of the major industraliazed countries, Germany seems to be the most liberal towards prostitution and sex. Overall of the rich countries, the Netherlands and Australia would rank in number 2 and 3, some parts of Spain are pretty permissive too. The UK and Japan are as overpriced as the US, in Canada the only real action seems to be in Montreal and Vancouver. Much of the activity in Germany is illegal in neighboring France. Ten years ago there was something about a who want's to be a porno star game show in France, there was a nice image of attractive French women humping guys in a line, it made me think that the country was a real anything goes type of place. There were hookers in Paris but for the most part the adult entertainment scene in France was not much wilder than the US. Then I took a detour into Germany, and I ran into what was literally the world's biggest brothel. In Australia, a well known brothel trades on world stock exchanges. Also in Oz, instead of a traditional beauty pageant, we have Miss Nude Australia held in Adelaide each year. Getting laid isn't hard in a liberal country.

[Buzz00]

I am not a supporter of these females in any sense of the word but I do have to say that when I have travelled to NYC I have almost never P4P's as it has almost always been freebies and then some. I have literally had my brains f*cked out by these ladies. As they say, I talk funny which perhaps is an added attraction I have no idea.

Let me relate my last experience - hope its not toooo boring. Anyway myself and some very well heeled but down to earth friends went bowling one Saturday night - my last night in the States for that trip. Anyway along with the friends came this super cute and very sexy film person-continuity specialist as she called herself. We got on really well and anyway she ended up with her tongue down my throat which was not half bad. We decided to stay in touch.

Fast forward - a few months later I am back in the big Apple and look up film lady but it seems that she has gotten herself hooked and did not tell me. No problem. Anyway we decided to go and have dinner in the meat market area which was very cool, and then call it quits - I actually was not in the mood for anything. As it turns out dinner was a gas and then she invites me for drinks at a bar nearby.

Well the film lady was putting back the wine like there was no tomorrow and getting loud and what seemed like very horny.When she pulls up her shirt and pushes 36c mammary glands into my face, I am mildly suprised, as 2 other couples are straining to get a look, I thought to myself ok just take it easy and see where it goes. I mean I am not one for public fornication but hey, who was I to complain. In fact I was trying very hard to keep a stupid grin off my face.

Eventually film lady decides that this is getting close to public indecency, as does everyone else in the bar and says lets go to her place......okaaaay lets go.

In the cab she is all over me and her 36c's are out the shirt in my face much to the enjoyment of the driver. Needles to say she is totally p*ssed out of her mind and very eager to lose the rest of her clothes and at that stage was passed caring about who was looking and who was not.

Anyway we get back to her place for more wine and a night that I have not yet forgotten. I mean what was she not into. She had an affinity for certain objects such as candles, bottles ( I kid you not ) and almost anything else that she could get her hands on. I am sorry that did not have more practice as a cat as she could not get enough of tongue, which went on for...I guess time became still for a while. She also enjoyed bum play, in fact anything that would go up there she welcomed.

Eventually around mid day I came up for air and so did she and kept on saying she could believe how naughty she was. Needles to say there was to be no repeat of the nights action as her guilt feelings for the other guy kicked in and that was the end of that. Oh and of course she blamed me.

I know that generally speaking American women are full of it but I can not deny that some of my most fun days have been spent in the company of some wild and wickedly naughty New York females.

I hope not to have bored the sh*t out of all you good folk and for those that are ever in the great city and you do feel the need for p4p try this site I am sure there is something for everyone ( including crazy swede) : http://www.eros-ny.com/

Cheers.

[Suave Gato]

www.Iwillstickanythingupmyass.com

Alp

[Doctor_Skank]

Darkseid,

You have a lot of valid points, and certainly I didnt want to downplay the qualities of Euro women, but I think its important that things are presented in an objective fashion. Living in Europe now, I know I am lucky to meet so many great women... but there are plenty of trolls here too.

Sometimes I struggle with the idea that American women are as bad as most posters say. My experience with AWs was very good... but also restricted to my high school and college years. Campus life is obviously different there. Its impossibly easy to get laid.

BTW: There are German words for sl*t and stud.

sl*t= Schlampe (shlahm-pa)
Stud= Hengst (haang-st)

And yes, Germans also generally look down on sluts. Casual sex is totally accepted as is the occassional one night stand, but girls who take home different guys every weekend are considered tramps and lower class.


CBGB: you are so sold on Oz that it makes me want to go there... not sure I'd be as happy as you though, there I would be "just another white guy". :)

Buzz04: good story... but what a tramp. Sounds like she likes being "the bad girl" once and awhile... :) Are you English? Is the accent a big boon for you? An Australian friend of mine says AWs go wild for his accent.

[Buzz00]

Dr.Skank,

I was Southern Africa born and have an accent that is a mixture of Brit, Ozzie
and my original lingo - it does somehow turn the ladies on - it is just so different for them. Having a haircut one day the cutter asked me to make a recording for her. Go figure, but its nice feeling with them ooing and aaing over me.

The AW in question I think, gets out of hand after a few glasses of wine but I remember another lady who was just as wild but totally sober, well sans the public indeceny bit.

Cheers.

[CBGBConnisur]

I saw an Australian guy walk into a Starbucks in midtown Manhattan NYC, ordered a coffee, and bunch of women looked at him in a "gaze" upon hearing his sophisticated accent. Australians as well as Italians seem to typify the "Dream" of most AWs. When I was in the Netherlands, these two nationalities were dreaded by the women of the RLD.

[DJ FourMoney]

Being from someplace else always gives you an edge (everything being equal) over locals. Works in American, works in Australia and work in Western Europe, over the short term anyway.

I will agree that sex, the openess of it in Europe and elsewhere do have an effect on how women overall keep themselves and their views on sexuality in general.

Getting laid in America isn't hard, it just depends on what your standards are.

If you don't mind fuggin ugly women, fat women and single mothers, generally those at the bottom of the desired list, then you can have more pu**y than you can deal with, cellphone blowing up and the whole bit.

But if your standards are higher, say slim to average weight women with nice curves and childless then your job to get them in the sack as a local is going to be tougher. Part of it is reglious, some of it is the woman's movement and other issues.

Dating somebody 10,000 miles away is a logitical nightmare waiting to happen, but honestly, I know a few that have done it. It just seems worth it.

AW are never going to change unless some culture change happens first and even then your talking 2-3 generations before you even see any benefit from it. I say, either tough it out here or look elsewhere. I vote for looking elsewhere.

[Rock Dog]

It always seems to be that things are better somewhere else. That, somehow, the women are prettier and more friendly in some other land. Maybe they are, and maybe they aren't.

I've been to clubs in Tijuana where drunken young American girls danced slowy with their hand down the front of their partner's pants. They fondled and stroked right there on the dance floor in front of everyone without a care that anyone would see.

I've been to Cuba and Jamaica, where young white Canadian girls openly hunted for the local black cock. These were the kind of girls that you'd never dream would go for that kind of action...... and yet there they were, looking for it the same way a junky goes looking for a fix.

We think our women are cold, uptight, sexless b*tches. Many of them are..... perhaps. But I've seen what they do and how they act when they think nobody's watching...... when they think that nobody back home will find out.

Maybe the only real difference is that the women in other countries are more open is because they don't have to worry about their reputation. This might be because they don't get labelled sluts by the other women...... or the men.

Makes you wonder.

Rock

[DJ FourMoney]

What happen to my post? lol..

Interracial Relationships are generally looked down upon in the US, I SHOULD know. Candian women don't have a problem with it generally. They do seem to have a problem with "Island Boyz" and Africans, not so much African-Americans (I hate using that term) for LTR (alot of Jamicans and African Nationals in Canada already). They don't mind going down to the lslands and finding "John St. Jock" but they aren't trying to drag him home per say. although I know one AW that did. The same thing happens on cruise ships by the way.

I agree that AW will often act very unlady like when there's no threat of somebody finding out. Go on any major college campus where the girl is away from her parents and they go buck wild. Most of your sexual experiments happen during college, including bisexuality and interracial relationships. Things they wouldn't DARE do back at home, especially if their background is "Lilly White".

There are plenty "diamonds in the rough" in America. Its filtering through all the BS sometimes doesn't seem to be worth it. I just don't think there are "greener pastures" for some of us, I know the grass is greener.

Honestly who would apprecated more -

Talking to a girl online for 6 months, fly to PA to meet or Talking to a girl in Germany for 6 months and fly out there to meet? I think the German woman would think you are more serious about LTR and tend not to play games with you. Not everybody can afford to fly half way around the world to meet somebody. AW think nothing of it, in fact Candian women would apprecate it more and that's based on personal experience. I also think European women feel I would passing up alot of talent in the US just be with them.

Sounds even more honorable to me at least.

The fact is you would be passing up alot of ladies and easier things to deal with like relocation. You don't need a visa for your GF to stay 6 months or more, you don't have to deal with imagration, you don't have to move all her shhh 10,000 miles and gawd knows what else. I mean its a logistical nightmare, not to mention, if its really serious do you think you could be apart more than say 30 days at a time? How many times you or her are going to fly to Europe/US in 6-12 month span?

I already know somebody doing it, he has a perma grin on his face... I understand why, shhh he already married her. A Swedish bomb-shell, dark hair, big boobs, never married, skinny, no kids, speaks perfect english, and educated. She'll be here permantly next year.

My father's buddy in the Korean War met a Danish woman (during that time), and never came back. The US in the early 60's isn't something I would have wanted to come back from and alot of people STAYED in Europe after being assigned to the European Theather or based in West Germany.

(In my case) If your not Nelly, T.O, Iverson or Tyson Beckford you stand no shot at anything like that and I'm talking overall package not just looks, because my boy pulls 8-8.5's on a regular but they have, "Issues"... Drama Queens on the highest level. Is that the price you pay for having a nice looking AW?

I rather be out a few dollars, get more intimate with the INS and end up happier in the long run. That's as long as you fully understand what your getting into. Some Candian women suffer from "Where the Buffalo Roam" syndrom but if I can find one that doesn't end every other sentence with "Aaa", I'll be in business.

I know I shaded this post more to what I have to deal with. But just think about this -

We're pretty much chasing the same pool of women (if were talking about white women and latinas) if your in my age and income bracket (under 40 and about 30-35K a year). It drops down considerbily when you take out the young ones that feel like you have to be thugged out (they grow out of it, its the same as the Bad Boy syndrom), you gotta work some white collar job they can brag to their friends and family about (more of the case of big city women and no more secure than what I do now) and the dreaded "equal income" bracket that alot of AW seek if they have college educations. On top of that, some AW (white or latina) don't date brothas, narrows it down even further.

I'm just trying to maximize my dating pool. If I mandate they have no children from a previous relationship, be thin to average body wise and don't dog me about my job, it narrows it WAY down. Nevermind the women that aren't attracted to you.

So my pool is even smaller compared to the average poster.

[CBGBConnisur]

Mixed dating is common in more cosmopolitan parts of Europe, and its common in Australia as well. The only part of the US where it does not seem to be frowned upon is in California.

[Capt Ajax]

Most small rural towns do have issues with interracial relationships but it’s not a problem in large metropolitan areas. For example Atlanta, Manhattan, Los Angeles, Austin, TX, Seattle, Orlando, Miami, Albany, Madison etc. Canada is the inter racial capital of North America. Canadian women don’t care whether you are an Island Boyz, African, African American, it’s all good as long as you are black. I‘m Jamaican and I’ve had no problems dating Canadian women from Vancouver to Montreal. I've noticed that white American women are more inclined to go out with an African or Jamaican than an African American because it is something exotic to them. I experienced this a lot in college. I used my accented english to my advantage.


Comment by DJFourMoney
agree that AW will often act very unlady like when there's no threat of somebody finding out. Go on any major college campus where the girl is away from her parents and they go buck wild. Most of your sexual experiments happen during college, including bisexuality and interracial relationships. Things they wouldn't DARE do back at home, especially if their background is "Lilly White".

I agree with this statement

[Darkseid]

I agree with DJ FourMoney that AWs DO seem to act like someone is watching them when they are back home. An AW in NYC would not be caught dead with an Asian guy because Asian guys have a terrible rap here in the city. AWs love exotic guys because they know that the exotic guy won't go back to their office and tell the AWs' co-workers or bump into them on a daily basis. Asian guys are NOT considered exotic in NYC and are too common in this city. In fact there are 3 major Chinese communities in NYC. However, I have gotten far more lucky in Las Vegas than I do in NYC. In Las Vegas, women dance much more wildly than they do in their hometown. I tend to approach the ones that are not with their friends because the last thing I need ruining my chances of scoring with them is a bitchy friend who would tell everyone else at home. The women I score with in Las Vegas are also the more liberal West coast women. East coast women become more liberal in Vegas also but they tend to be fatter and not to my liking. I see Vegas as a great way of having very Short term relationships. AWs also act this way in other vacation spots when they are alone. For this reason, AWs are only good for STRs.
Astor, AWs act differently but it depends on WHAT RACE you are. Race still plays a major role in this. My college life was not so lucky. I made the stupid mistake of staying in my home city of New York because my parents threatened to not pay for college unless I stayed in New York. I had the misfortune of meeting all of my high school and junior high school acquaintences who wouldn't even touch me with a ten foot pole in the dating world because I am Asian. I know this fact because in the cafeteria, I saw one pointing to me, nodding her head, then showing a pinky indicating a small penis. Then she pointed to the black guy and had the stretched arm gesture indicating a long penis. I have gotten many "nos" and "let's be friends so you can be my shrink when bad things happen to me by some other guy" responses when I tried to find a date to the prom. I also noticed that ALL my other Asian friends didn't get dates to the prom. That established the fact that I am not the ugly one but THEY are heartwise. These same New Yorkers were the same type of people I met in New York University and the non-locals were converted by these racists. The college analogy where women date other races did not apply to me for being Asian. Asian guys are seen as small penis men, nose pickers, spitters, seat hoggers, and rude so they are avoided anywhere in New York City including the colleges. Men of other races have a MUCH better time in New York than the Asian guy.
So what does that leave me? I can't bag the film chicks, secretaries, or slim girls. That leaves me with the totally desperate single fat mothers that are desperate for a guy to support their kids from guys who ditched them who doesn't really like me for myself but only will see me as a sucker to divorce and a paycheck for their kids. I don't avoid these single fat mothers because they are fugly and overweight, but I avoid them even if they are hot model looking babes because I don't want to get into bankrupcy. Yes, this narrows down my choices to less than 1% but in this country you MUST be careful in who you choose to marry or else lose everything you've earned over your lifetime and in the future.
I do not consider myself finicky because I've dated a few fat chicks BUT SINGLE CHILDLESS fat chicks that won't stiff me to take care of their illegimate kids. These fat chicks also wanted to lose weight and came to me for that and dated me out of gratefulness and the fact that no other type of guy would date them. I turned them into thinner better looking and more positive women when I personal trained them. I would not consider being in a relationship with a fat chick who wants to STAY fat because she might turn me fat eventually.
In fact, I even left New York to Brazil out of depression for 4 years and plan to leave again. I would like to move to Las vegas if I stay in the US once I get back on my feet and save enough.

[Capt Ajax]

Darkseid, Most women in Newyork city are ignorant. AW in Newyork city are some of the meanist, nastiest, most hardened women, I've have ever met. I wouldn't touch an AW from Newyork city with a ten foot pole. About asian men dating other women of other races, I just assumed most asian men prefer to date within their own race. I don't think you would have this problem in Canada. Canadian women are more open minded about interacial relationships.
Bottomline, at this stage of my life I find it easier to P4P. No games, no bullshit, I know what time, I'm getting to get fucked. I'd rather monger than get messed up in any kind of LTR with an AW.

[CBGBConnisur]

Buzz seems to like NYC women, I don't know what the hell he is smoking because I found a nice piece of South African ass in Australia.

[DJ FourMoney]

Most small rural towns do have issues with interracial relationships but it’s not a problem in large metropolitan areas. For example Atlanta, Manhattan, Los Angeles, Austin, TX, Seattle, Orlando, Miami, Albany, Madison etc. Canada is the inter racial capital of North America. Canadian women don’t care whether you are an Island Boyz, African, African American, it’s all good as long as you are black. I‘m Jamaican and I’ve had no problems dating Canadian women from Vancouver to Montreal. I've noticed that white American women are more inclined to go out with an African or Jamaican than an African American because it is something exotic to them. I experienced this a lot in college. I used my accented english to my advantage.


Comment by DJFourMoney
agree that AW will often act very unlady like when there's no threat of somebody finding out. Go on any major college campus where the girl is away from her parents and they go buck wild. Most of your sexual experiments happen during college, including bisexuality and interracial relationships. Things they wouldn't DARE do back at home, especially if their background is "Lilly White".

I agree with this statement

I agree with you Astor, I wasn't trying to broad brush it for sho....

The limited number of Candians I have talked to really didn't have anything bad to say about Jamaicans or other lsland kids, it was mostly African because of the social struture in Africa about the woman being subservent.

But I totally agree with you, keep it up playa.

[DJ FourMoney]

darkseid -

That's funny you say that. I watched my ex use the Subway Diet. I kid you not, that shhh worked. She dropped like 70-80lbs in about 7-8 months. Our sex life improved but I was already over her for the most part. She felt better about herself, she had been overweight all her life up to that point.

She was still "thick" (5'9 about 190lbs) but she slimmed WAY down compared to what she used to look like.

I'm just not willing to take on another "Project". It took the better part of 2 years to convince her to loose weight. I was 27 and she was only 22 at the end of our relationship.

I'm at kinda of a crossroads though -

I just turned 35, almost nobody under 25 will date me. I get that, but that's also (without facts to back it up) the demographic with fewer single mothers.

Seems by the time they reach 25 they have had that ONE serious relationship go wrong and now they have at least 1 child. I even met one or two with at least 3 and under 30. In fact one, would you believe had 5 by age 32? She was all alone too (dead beat fathers), the fact she was ex-Army helped with some of the medical cost and health insurance but dayum.

You find this in Europe too, it just seems less magnified. I found more childless women under 35 based on personal ads from Europe than say America and I can kind of compare that side by side. The only women without kids in America under 35 have careers and as it was stated before, those women are holding out for the "perfect storm", which might never come, because if you just search ads a bit older, you'll find more than a few women going on 40-45 yrs old without having at least one child and would still consider having one/two.

The time is basically now because I have put a limit of 40 on myself to conceive my first child. That breaks down to, finding somebody worthwhile in about 1-2 years, the M word by year 3, adjust to M life by year 4 and then try to have kids by year 5. It still puts me actually holding my child sometime around age 41, but I can live with that.

I've pretty much been on the shelf for about 3 years, dating here and there, nothing serious though has caught. Frankly two were even worthy and they are single mothers.

Ugh as if we didn't have enough problems....

So its monger until I find that somebody I guess.. Tried of bangin fat women, I got 3 in my Inbox now, where it is writen in my profile "Hey I like big women....."? Just goes to show you some people only see the picture and not read the thing. In fact I had to CAPTIONALIZE IT so its not missed by anybody.

[CBGBConnisur]

I used the Atkins plan a few years back, I lost about 45 lbs. in only 2 months, fastest way to lose weight.

[Darkseid]

I would date or marry single moms IF it weren't for the dire consequences that come with it especially being in New York where the laws are the worst for the man on the planet. I am open to dating single moms in areas where the divorce laws allows you to be deadbeats (to the kids that are from other fathers but I would want custody of my own kid). In New York City, the last sucker who just got divorced from that woman is the one forking out all that dough for the accumulating kids from ALL the failed marriages that the woman ever had. Once you marry that woman, you are the new sucker and poor soul who has to pay for the family and the torch of bankruptcy is passed to you. This is unfortunately why there are so many single mothers in this city- nobody wants to be that poor fool paying for other guy's children.
The Atkins diet should include eliminating the processed partially hydrogenated vegetable oil. This oil is found in chips, fast foods, cookies, and candies. Once this fake oil enters the system, it sticks to your skin as body fat because the body has to convert this unprocessable fat to a more suitable meat fat which in turn is body fat. This fat does NOT come off until you exercise because it has to be reprocessed. This processed vegetable oil is banned in all of Europe and they cook even in McDonald's with pork fats instead. This fat is much more digestable and makes you crap a lot.

[DJ FourMoney]

And there so MANY of them, its not even funny.

I think it needs to be said that alot of AW/CW just marry the first knucklehead that ask them. What kind of nonsense is that?

I've had some ask how come I don't have any kids or why I haven't been married. That's a fair question but the answer is far from dramatic. I mean I think it actually sounds "novel" to them. Its because I haven't found anybody worth marrying let alone have my children, I take that shhh seriously.

Here's an example:

I know this one girl who's a Mexican National. She was up here for a short time legally and went back about 2 months ago. She was suppose to hook up with this morron she had been talking too for about a year or so. That never happen, so she went back. Well, she goes back, hooks up with this brotha from the Dallas-Fort Worth area and she let's him run all up in her without a condom....

When I hear stuff like this I just shake my head...

Now we're talking about a 26 year old WOMAN here, not a child. Now she's pregnant. She had no idea what to do, so I told her to contact Planned Parenthood and decide from there. She didn't even know that much... I don't have an update yet.

But that's an EXCELLENT example of what goes on in a woman's mind.

1) Yes it WILL HAPPEN TO YOU, so take precautions.

Now I almost FULLY understand why there so many single mothers out there -

a) Some are forgettful: You should never be on the pill if you are.
b) Some fear weight gain from "the shot": Its better than gaining weight from pregnancy isn't it?
c) The condom broke: Now who's fault is that? If your with a guy that can't even buy the right sized condom, what does that say about your selection process?

Its only when faced with a real-life issues like pregnancy and child-birth that the little "bulb" goes on above most women's heads. Even then, some make that mistake, not only once, but twice. Then we're expected as single and childless men to take over for dead beat fathers or be postitive roll models for the children when their mother has already failed in that capacity. Nevermind having to explain to said children who their father is, that's even if they know in the first place.

That's how mindless that is! It bugs the HELL OUT OF ME.

I don't think women fully understand going from nothing to instant family. They had 9 months to think about the impact that child would have on their lives. They fully expect the emotionally impossible in, oh about a year tops.

I give props to the men that can make that adjustment, pass with flying colors and without missing a beat. I just think for me to do it now, that woman has to be "THE" woman. I'm not putting up with that B.S anymore.

[Deal Seeker]

I agree with DJ FourMoney that AWs DO seem to act like someone is watching them when they are back home. An AW in NYC would not be caught dead with an Asian guy because Asian guys have a terrible rap here in the city. AWs love exotic guys because they know that the exotic guy won't go back to their office and tell the AWs' co-workers or bump into them on a daily basis. Asian guys are NOT considered exotic in NYC and are too common in this city. In fact there are 3 major Chinese communities in NYC. However, I have gotten far more lucky in Las Vegas than I do in NYC. In Las Vegas, women dance much more wildly than they do in their hometown. I tend to approach the ones that are not with their friends because the last thing I need ruining my chances of scoring with them is a bitchy friend who would tell everyone else at home. The women I score with in Las Vegas are also the more liberal West coast women. East coast women become more liberal in Vegas also but they tend to be fatter and not to my liking. I see Vegas as a great way of having very Short term relationships. AWs also act this way in other vacation spots when they are alone. For this reason, AWs are only good for STRs.
Astor, AWs act differently but it depends on WHAT RACE you are. Race still plays a major role in this. My college life was not so lucky. I made the stupid mistake of staying in my home city of New York because my parents threatened to not pay for college unless I stayed in New York. I had the misfortune of meeting all of my high school and junior high school acquaintences who wouldn't even touch me with a ten foot pole in the dating world because I am Asian. I know this fact because in the cafeteria, I saw one pointing to me, nodding her head, then showing a pinky indicating a small penis. Then she pointed to the black guy and had the stretched arm gesture indicating a long penis. I have gotten many "nos" and "let's be friends so you can be my shrink when bad things happen to me by some other guy" responses when I tried to find a date to the prom. I also noticed that ALL my other Asian friends didn't get dates to the prom. That established the fact that I am not the ugly one but THEY are heartwise. These same New Yorkers were the same type of people I met in New York University and the non-locals were converted by these racists. The college analogy where women date other races did not apply to me for being Asian. Asian guys are seen as small penis men, nose pickers, spitters, seat hoggers, and rude so they are avoided anywhere in New York City including the colleges. Men of other races have a MUCH better time in New York than the Asian guy.

So what does that leave me? I can't bag the film chicks, secretaries, or slim girls. That leaves me with the totally desperate single fat mothers that are desperate for a guy to support their kids from guys who ditched them who doesn't really like me for myself but only will see me as a sucker to divorce and a paycheck for their kids. I don't avoid these single fat mothers because they are fugly and overweight, but I avoid them even if they are hot model looking babes because I don't want to get into bankrupcy. Yes, this narrows down my choices to less than 1% but in this country you MUST be careful in who you choose to marry or else lose everything you've earned over your lifetime and in the future.

I do not consider myself finicky because I've dated a few fat chicks BUT SINGLE CHILDLESS fat chicks that won't stiff me to take care of their illegimate kids. These fat chicks also wanted to lose weight and came to me for that and dated me out of gratefulness and the fact that no other type of guy would date them. I turned them into thinner better looking and more positive women when I personal trained them. I would not consider being in a relationship with a fat chick who wants to STAY fat because she might turn me fat eventually.

In fact, I even left New York to Brazil out of depression for 4 years and plan to leave again. I would like to move to Las vegas if I stay in the US once I get back on my feet and save enough.Wow, describes my situation to a T.

[Tbird]

Here are three of them.

[Sinanju Master]

THAT explains why I always see traffic stopped on the interstate RIGHT in front of those signs!

[Paddy]

Hey Darkseid,

Your posts always trigger a lot of thought and interest with me. I was honestly unaware of the racist attitudes that people have toward Asian guys. Then, again, not being Asian and working in academia for the last 30 years I have been oblivious to this issue.

Oddly enough, a good friend of mine had a relationship with a beautiful Asian woman several years ago. She was was a total knockout and a real sweeheart. I often asked her if she had any sisters. In any event, her family and her father in particular very much resented her dating a Caucasian guy. She and my friend took a lot of static from her family and Asian relatives to the point where she eventually broke off the relationship. So, do Asian people in turn resent non-Asians??? I don't know. What are your views of this situation? Is this common in Asian families and culture or was this an anomaly? I'd like to hear your thoughts and comments.

Paddy

[DJ FourMoney]

The stark reality...

12,900,103 or 12% of all the reporting Households were Female Householders with no Husband Present. Now these numbers can be twisted a bit depending on your agenda, but the numbers themselves don't lie.

1 out of every 4 households are of one parent...

Eek!

I was going to comment about Asian-Americans and Interracial Relationships, but I'll let Darkseid tackle that one. The only thing I can add is in my limited sampling, Japanese and Chinese Americans are FAR more likely to marry their own than not. But you can say that of Orthodox Jews, especially in Los Angeles and New York.

It seems the more wrapped up in religion or tradition you are, the more likely your going to date in your own dating circle/pool.

[Rock Dog]

I used to have an asian girlfriend. She was far better in many regards to the local white girls.

I noticed a bit of reluctance, at first, from her mother. But she came around pretty quickly. Her sister even copied our move and started dating a white guy herself. Asian woman/White male is a fairly common inter-racial couple here in Canada. In Vancouver, it seems like white guys date asian girls more than any other type.

What I noticed was the funny looks we used to get all the time. Not from white people, but from the asians. Girls in particular.

Rock

[Yogin]

I'm on the west coast US. White guy/Asian girl is extremely common, I've had many Asian GF's, have never encountered trouble from anyone. In Japan it's another story, with cold stares everywhere. I prefer Asian-raised, not "bananas" as many Asian-Americans are called. Rarely have their parents objected, especially when they know I'm Jewish, once they learn of our high value placed on education & close family. All they care about is if the guy treats her right.

Unfortunately, Asian kids born & raised in the US become as fat as everyone else!

[Wet Nose]

I can chime in about what darkseid said about caucasian girls and asian guys - we just can't get any play at all. It's a cold hard fact for all asian guys living in North America actually.

Part of it is due to the cultural programming that all of us are subjected to as we're growing up - cartoons, movies, news programming, daily life. Girls are "imprinted", at a very early age. Try this on yourself: what's the typical image of the homecoming queen? Blond, beautiful, white? what about the homecoming king? Tall, blond, white, handsome?

So if you were a woman, who would you like to go out with?

It's really really tough for us. Thank god for places like South America (latinas are beyond awesome) and Thailand. I just came back from Thailand and it was the best vacation of my life. Those thai girls are beyond awesome.

[Cebu Local]

I used to have an asian girlfriend. She was far better in many regards to the local white girls.

I noticed a bit of reluctance, at first, from her mother. But she came around pretty quickly. Her sister even copied our move and started dating a white guy herself. Asian woman/White male is a fairly common inter-racial couple here in Canada. In Vancouver, it seems like white guys date asian girls more than any other type.

What I noticed was the funny looks we used to get all the time. Not from white people, but from the asians. Girls in particular.

RockRock
Vancouver is 20-30% Asian,So its pretty common,I am originally from Vancouver myself.It never was an issue for me with either white or Asian girls either.My chinese friend didnt have a problem getting white girls either.But again,We both grew up in West Vancouver and He drove a BMW to school.There might have been pragmatic reasons for the girls,like he would regularly take his dates to his family s condo in Whistler or their Condo in Maui.He ended marrying a white girl though.Note to none Vancouverites,West Vancouver is the wealthiest district in Canada,sort of like the Beverly Hills of Canada

[Cebu Local]

I can chime in about what darkseid said about caucasian girls and asian guys - we just can't get any play at all. It's a cold hard fact for all asian guys living in North America actually.Not neccesarily,See the previous post of my chinese friend in Vancouver.The power of money......

[Sinanju Master]

I was watching 20/20 (ABC) last night and it featured some nouveau riche people. One of them was a guy that an AW would look at ONLY if she realized her options were practically NONEXISTENT. The guy is the creator of e-Bay AND the head of a Hollywood movie studio that churns out politically motivated films. While watching this particular segment, he said that at a party, Paris Hilton herself sashayed up to him, gave him her number and said to call her. He never called her. What made me sit up and take notice was the fact that he's a nerd. He's in his late 30's, has a receding hairline and looks pretty much like the 98-pound weakling of the Charles Atlas ads of yesteryear. He's dating a lot of Hollywood hotties now. Just goes to show ya that for AW's, the dollar (or what currency have you) is the ultimate aphrodisiac. Excuse me while my level of disgust bottoms out even MORE....

[CBGBConnisur]

That has always been the motivation of AWs and foreign women who come to the US by choice, money.

[DJ FourMoney]

Note that guys are talking about ex-girl Asian friends, not their current girl friend, their wife or ex-wife. That's the difference in values and explains the reluctance of some Asian parents for inter-racial relationship.

Vancouver is a relatively newbie. They don't have much of a real estate market until a decade ago when Asians started to come in numbers. Local middle class who at least own a house welcome them. There are also plenty who complained openly, that young local people are driven out of the area where their parent lives because of the sudden high real estate cost. So unlike USA such as CA, where Asians are there for generations as well as plenty fresh off the boat. Like CA, San Jose and Orange County are number 1, 2 in the major real estate market in the nation. Major means I think if a Malibu house costing 20 million, can easily be rebuilt on it over 20 small 3-bedroom houses, and those in San Jose will easily cost over 1 million each.



That cultural programming you talked about may be imprinted on a Japanese animator. Haven't you heard of tall dark and handsome? Girls are imprinted with what they see at school. Anyway Black Eye Pea and Usher are cool. Doesn't mean they will go out with them by all means, but cool is a start. Jessica Simpon may turn me on a decade ago but do nothing to me now, but Beyonce makes me horny every time.

In Europe, I've seen Asian boys picked the best looking blond girls in school, group date, and show them off all day long, about 12 year old. I've seen Asian boys decorate their outstanding blond date like Cinderella and take them to exclusive parties. And she did look like Cinderella. It all depends on what you have to offer to the relationship. You may say money but that's only part of it. That's for further discussion.

Talking about home coming king and queen, the image on my brain is that the home coming queen want to leave town to see the big city, the world. The blond home coming king, ex-football captain, now the local mechanic told her at the farewell part that 'You'll be back'. She didn't. She became a stripper, and got murdered, as in the news this several days.

I think you'll find alot of ex-cheerleads as strippers and porn stars now. Not like that's a bad thing and you have just much chance of "knock it out" with them as you do with just about anybody else famous. I also think you'll find more than a few are local providers here in LA and Neveda. Not always the sharpest knife in the drawer...

I don't know much about the Asian said of Vancuver, BC; but I do know that CWW (Candian White Women) do like American Black Men and I have been meaning to investigate for a few years now, but as I said before driving a truck kinda prevented me from traveling as I was traveling all the time, just no where fun. Although I was in Jacksonville the time of the Superbowl, that's for another post - :D

Like I have said, Chinese and Japanese seem to have the hardest time with IR dating. I have had much more sucess with Flips and Koreans than any of the other Asians.

[CBGBConnisur]

I honestly did not find Canadian women to be open-minded in any way shape or form towards African American males. Australia on the other hand is a lot more open.

[Darkseid]

Hey Darkseid,

Oddly enough, a good friend of mine had a relationship with a beautiful Asian woman several years ago. She was was a total knockout and a real sweeheart. I often asked her if she had any sisters. In any event, her family and her father in particular very much resented her dating a Caucasian guy. She and my friend took a lot of static from her family and Asian relatives to the point where she eventually broke off the relationship. So, do Asian people in turn resent non-Asians??? I don't know. What are your views of this situation? Is this common in Asian families and culture or was this an anomaly? I'd like to hear your thoughts and comments.

Paddy

That Asian girl might have come from a wealthier family from China and some have paid their way to America. It is these upper class families from China that would resent interracial dating because they have much more to lose than the poor Asian family who smuggled their way to America and got into debt working for the mafia. The older Asian people also faced much more discrimination in their days than the next generation. They have been denied jobs, put in high crime neighborhoods and denied housing in good neighborhoods they can afford, and denied education in good schools. They in turn blame the non-asians for this predicament. The poorer families tend to accept the Interracial dating because they see the Caucasian guy as a means to buy their way out of the debt and for the daughter to be taken care of. It is another way of sending their daughter off to a more well-off family other than adoption. My mother grew up in debt to the Triads and had to work in a sewing machine factory to pay them off but my father married my mother and helped pay them off after working 2 jobs. Now my parents are debt free and have money saved up. Now they saved up a fortune and they don't want me to marry a greedy AW because they heard of horror stories from friends with sons who divorced and pays more than half their paychecks to these skanks. Well, I am in New York City where they hate Asian guys anyway so they have nothing to worry about. They probably even planned this so I would be stuck with my own race. But even with my own race, the Asian girl is assimilated into this culture and also become AWs so that leaves them out of the options also.
For Asian girls, the parents who now have a fortune have a say over who the daughter marries because they are not as desperate as the poor girl who has to get out of debt. Like in all countries you do have the racists that faced discrimination in their lifetime here in the states who resent their daughters dating other races so they would prefer their daughters to marry another Asian guy. Asian women have no problem bagging a Caucasian guy because Caucasian guys are less racist than AWs. A horny Caucasian guy doesn't discriminate and Asian women tend to be more humble than the AW so there is more chemistry. On the other hand, AWs are racist so they would never hook up with the Asian guy. They would hook up with Latino or Black because in NYC, or any part of the East Coast, they are considered "cool" with the hip-hop or Salsa culture. The Asian GUY is underrepresented in the East Coast US.
I have gotten more free-play in Europe in a week than a lifetime here in NYC. I hooked up with a mushroom freak from England who now works in a mushroom shop in Amsterdam because I agreed with everything she said about the strict laws of the US. She found me to be exotic and said she never gotten a chance to do an Asian but would like to. She enjoyed the sexperience with me so much that she wanted to see me again if I am ever back in Holland and e-mailed me for months until my next trip on Queens' Day then I spent more time with her. She did find a Thai boyfriend months after my second trip with her so we broke it off but it was fun while it lasted.

[Capt Ajax]

I honestly did not find Canadian women to be open-minded in any way shape or form towards African American males. Australia on the other hand is a lot more open.

Montreal is the interacial capital of NA and also has the prettiest women in North America period......not too many fat slobs hanging around there. I know because I spend the summer in Montreal every year.

[CBGBConnisur]

Montreal and Quebec are on a completely different wavelength from the rest of Canada. Quebecoise are in their own league, yes I would agree they are more open towards mixed dating and a racial minority might feel more comfortable there. In comparison to English speaking parts of Canada, I feel Australia is far more open towards mixed dating.

[Paddy]

Hey Darkseid,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I learned a lot and it all makes sense. This whole thing about racism toward Asian guys was something that was never on my radar screen. I wonder if matters are any better on the West Coast??? BTW, that Asian girl who had to dump my friend was from a wealthy family. So, it all fits.

I know that I'm being very naive but one would hope that racist jive like that would be history in American society by now. Maybe in the next 100 years or so. Who knows?

Paddy

[DJ FourMoney]

Now I'm getting there. But it could be long, I can think of ancient history, religion, philisophy, biology, or as simple as white+black=black but white+yellow=?

Darkseid contributed his experience but there are others. Say Chinese is all over the globe, and that there are 4th, or nth generation Chinese families in US, as well as people just arriving by smuggling in containers, or relocated via business class.

Where do I start? In the old Western world, people search for immorality via religion, while Asians found immorality in blood line, which is a very natural and practical tendency for organic materials. Ancestors are always worshipped as god, which is probably not part of Buddism, which is practised by many but mixed with some other things, may be ancient philosophy and fairy tales.

So Asians are very involved in their offsprings affairs. The US/Western tradition is that parents take of their own retirement, and the children take care of themselves, may be if they are rich, parents pay for expensive college. Asian parents listen to their children's telephone conversations. Give them a safer car. Help them with an apartment in a nicer neighborhood, and a respectable house if they marry early. All parents do but for Asians it's not a loan or the down payment for a house, often the whole house is a gift or early inheritance. Often all in priority to retirement savings. While Americans ashamed to be living with their parents.

Asian parents often earn the right to be involved. You have seen how some parents struggled and suceeded. Another example, a 1st generation Asian wife, her husband is probably 1st generation with a good job. But when her daughter enters kindergarten, it's almost all white with some hispanics. To keep all options open, and that her daughter doesn't appear to be A+ student yet, they put her in private school, where the learning is a bit acelerated and more Asians. But the public school in the area is already among the top scorers, and that private school is about 1K per month, and they have a son going to private school in a year or two. Her mother has some skills, instead of staying home, her earnings, after paying for child care, is just about enough for the school fees one and possibly two. Wow, that's 24K a year after tax and they are just 5 years old. I doubt very much if non-Asians will do that.

I can speak about the 4th point you made -

I have lived outside my parents home before... But I live here now.

I believe there are two main reasons, maybe three why people move from home -

1) Privacy

We all know you can't bang a girl/guy if your PARENTS are home.. And all the usual things like being able to do what you want and nobody to tell you no.

2) Lack of closeness with parents/Controlling Parents

Why live with people you don't get along with?

*3) For Men Only: Women think your mother still irons, washes your clothes and cooks if you live at home. That signals lack of independance, at least that's what AW think.

The fact is my mother cooks for everybody here (4 total) and not just me. So I can't eat?

I do my own clothes and otherwise I do more for her than she does for me.

I have an excellent relationship with my stepfather and mother, I'm not being pushed out the door, so why should I go out and burn up $1,000 a month on rent just to give the appearance I'm independent to some woman?

We are pretty much the only western culture that's looked down upon for still living at home, when its happening more all the time.

When I moved out with my ex-gf, her parents, nor mine helped us even with the deposit, we never asked them for rent money or any other help. We were just were expected to do it on our own so we did. I only came back home because (after we broke up and she moved out) I wouldn't call Lancaster, CA an ideal place to be for a single person, especially when all your friends and family are down in the LA basin. They will look for any and every excuse not to visit you.

That was 2001 and I have been back ever since and honestly Im not going anywhere until I'm ready to buy property for myself or I get seriously involved with somebody and need my privacy.

It may have an impact on my social life, but so what. I've even had American women I don't know argue with me about it. I mean if I moved out tomorrow would they still date me? Why would I do something like that anyway?

Its just a pointless arguement.

All that money they burned up paying rent could have been put towards a home or other property. Home ownership is what feeds the tax base and its encuraged by the gov, so why rent when you don't have too? Especially if your a single parent, its even easier to get on the HUD list...

What's really funny is I know alot of women still at home, but we don't clown them for doing it...

Canadian Women (CBGB) -

I have met quite a few Canadian women here and online that date American BM, Jamicans and Africans exclusively and they come from all the terriories. So I would say that your assesment is off a bit. In fact I can go to just about any IR personal site and find about 100 ads from Canadian women alone.

The first girl I ever talked to online and on the phone from another country was a French-Canadian girl from Winnipeg. Man I prolly should have hooked up with that girl, she was LTR material and the only person in her family that spoke english...

One of the funnest oxymoron out there is Blackplanet. For a site that focuses on Black people sure has alot of AWW (American White Women) Canadian and European Women on it.

All you have to do is an average search on the site and alot of personal pages pop up...

[Paddy]

Astor Bryan,

Having been to Montreal several times, I can only agree with your assessment of the women there. They're characteristically nice looking, charming and in good shape. I also found them to be approachable and serious about meeting men. Furthermore, they don't play that snotty little game that AW play where AW go out in groups to bars to see how many men they can flip off in one night.

One other thing. It's almost impossible to get a bad meal in Montreal. The restaurants are awesome.

Paddy