American Women [Archive] - Page 23 - InternationalSexGuide

That Asshole

07-11-07, 04:48

the end of "good-will"
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first there was courtesy....
then came the law.....

http://www.megalaw.com/top/gender.php
http://www.usdoj.gov/ovw/
http://www.feminist.org/911/harass.html

thsi is not a perfect world. in fact it seems to be more rotten every year. maybe we were all "innocent" one day, however it was long ago for most of us.

as i said, first there was common courtesy...... then came the "law". you cannot deny the fact that ever more increasingly the women try to "arm themselves" with an ever growing multitude of laws and regulations about interaction between the sexes.

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"we should review the law regarding the conditions of sexual assault and [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)......" or "we need more cops and sex-laws ...."is a never ending national headline.

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yes, babe you have the cops watching your ass now and the cameras on every street. but as far as a growing majority of men are concerned, this is also the end of common courtesy.... see what happens in town. was it worth it with all the stupid laws?

one day:
i was travelling on the bus. crowded peak traffic. pregnant woman stands in the middle, hanging desperately to the bar on the roof. several men sitting around. i can't resist smiling voyeuristically, while thinking like this:

'you know what baby? just stand like everyone else. after all we are equal. for what i know, you might even be a lesbo, and your kid came from a test tube. you are no man's girl. fuck yourself and call the cops if you want. they will give their seat to you.'

obviously many guys felt the same because she was left standing to the last stop.

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another day:
a young woman's handbag gets caught in the door of a train pulling out of the station. she desperately calls for help: "help, somebody help, please! "

am i evil to think like this?: 'you know what, lady? get your own fucking bag out ......or call the cops, they will help you!'

obviously other guys felt the same way while doing nothhing but watching her amusedly. hehe....

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and again:
woman loaded with shopping, with a small kid in tow and another on the arm calls me:

"could you please help me and carry my baby carriage to the car?"

am i evil to think this way?: 'you know what? carry your own fucking baby carriage for yourself. ......or call the cops, they will carry it for you. i give you the number of the cop-station to call.'

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plus my favorite:
crippled woman in the wheelchair trying to get on the train, hopelessly unable to bridge the gap between the platform and the carriage.

are we evil to think this way?: 'you know what? call the cops, they will help you. i sure as fuck that won't.'

i watched her struggle for a while and then walked on.

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and one day i am sure even this will happen:

woman screaming under two attackers, trying to get into her panties (for free!) on a dark streetcorner in downtown ny. "help! hellllllppppp! plleeeeesssss!"

are we evil to think this way?: 'you know what? why don't you call the cops....for yourself, you fuck! '

we watch the show for a while as the two poor street-dwellers please themselves on her meat (for free!), (because they could never afford it otherwise) and then we walk on totally disinterested.

hmm, yes ma'am. make more laws. pleeeessss.

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you have probably realised the same by now. there might be a multitude of new laws every year, and ten times as many cops plus the cameras. enjoy it ladies. however, the courtesy is all gone. the goodwill? none of that left. none what-so-ever. so, if you are in shit...... call the cops. for yourselves.

and we have to please you no more. because we get laid "cheaper than free" in cambodia, south america or thailand. (long live sex-tourism...!).

oh, yes then there will come the "laws against sex-tourism". it is inevitable. in fact already coming. under the disguise of "anti-aids campaigns" and "child-protection".

what i am surprised is that how many men still believe them. if you take the effort and look into them, both issues will prove superficial and totally malevolent, simply more attacks against men.

but who has the time to actually think? it is much easier to just repeat what we hear on the news. why think? just repeat. fuck, it seems to work well.....

------------------------------------
guys, you have to talk more with women. they will tell you the truth about everything. 'cos they know....

"darl' i need a new haircut, don't you think? and this color really doesn't suit me....maybe i should try pink instead?"
....................................
end of story

Rubber Nursey

07-11-07, 08:06

My God. I now understand COMPLETELY why American Women are the way they are.

I'll never criticise Aussie men again...

CBGBConnisur

07-11-07, 12:16

Well in life you have to give some and take some. Americans have probably the most comfortable living standard on the planet. Spend some time overseas, I have been in Europe over the past two months spending an extended period of time and it is nowhere near as comfortable as living in North America. People even stare at my clothes and shoes in amazement, and I am spending time in the richest country in Europe, Germany. In general I have found German women to be easier to pick up than those in America, I have also met of a lot of EE women as well who I think are better. People will be people, a lot of the reason why these women appear to be nicer has to do with their circumstances, they do not have half of the opportunities that women in the US, Canada, UK, or Australia have. I met a beautiful EE type and she was talking about her life, doing a lot of dead end jobs in Germany, working in McDonalds, cleaning motels, etc., you do not see women of this calibre doing this kind of work in an English speaking country.

Jelly Donut

07-11-07, 21:29

Woman screaming under two attackers, trying to get into her panties (for free!) on a dark streetcorner in downtown NY. "Help! Hellllllppppp! Plleeeeesssss!"

Well, it's happened in Queens, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

Rock Dog

07-12-07, 01:31

.... doing a lot of dead end jobs in Germany, working in McDonalds, cleaning motels, etc., you do not see women of this calibre doing this kind of work in an English speaking country.

That's because women "of that calibre" never need to work at those kind of jobs.... not in cities anyways. Sometimes you'll see some pretty hot girls working at a lowly job of you're in a small town, but that's about it.

Why would this be so? Simple, a hot woman is too highly valued by men to ever work at a job like that. If she doesn't know it, the men will soon make her aware of the fact. Even if a really good-looking girl was working a job like that..... guess what would happen? A never-ending parade of guys hitting on her until one comes along that she likes. Pretty soon, she either has a better job cause he's hooked her up..... or she doesn't need to work anymore cause she's married (or the guy's paying for everything which amounts to the same thing).

I'd love to hear anyone try and convince me it aint so.

Rock

CBGBConnisur

07-12-07, 12:26

That is exactly my point, there is a lot more economic comfort in NA than in other parts of the world. So of course women will behave differently. Montreal is
an exception,its one of the few places in North America where you will find hot women working in McDonalds.

Environment plays a major role in how a person behaves.

Capt Ajax

07-12-07, 13:50

Americans have probably the most comfortable living standard on the planet. Spend some time overseas, I have been in Europe over the past two months spending an extended period of time and it is nowhere near as comfortable as living in North America.

A complete falsehood CBGB.......Here are the World's Top 10 - Countries with Highest Standard of Living

Country

1. Norway
2. Sweden
3. Canada
4. Belgium
5. Australia
6. United States
7. Iceland
8. Netherlands
9. Japan
10. Finland

Rock Dog

07-12-07, 14:29

Astor,

These lists are a dime a dozen, and they're based on so many different factors. Many of which don't have as much influence on the kinds of attitudes people have.

Still, I would suggest you go ask the men in these countries what they think of the local women. You might be surprised at how low the opinions would be. Not too sure about Norway and Belgium, but you see a ton of guys from the other countries you listed..... where? On international dating websites.

USA ranked 6th place? That's still pretty high considering there's like 192 countries in the world. Right?

Rock

Leeuwen

07-12-07, 14:55

Doctor_Skank

07-12-07, 15:14

Get over it, you are #6 this year and that's it. Damn right all essential factors have been taken into account when publishing these lists.

Guys from Germany and other EU countries go for P4P in SEA or elsewhere for fun. It's simple and a different experience. Anyone marrying an imported wife is tagged 'loser'. It's basically written on your forehead didn't-meet-local-standards.

It is true that white guys with Asian brides in particular are looked at with disdain, as is often the girl... particularly if the guy isn't good looking in any way. It's not really fair, after all some of the relationships could be excellent.

Sometimes it occurs with EE or Brazilian wives as well, but then the looks are often one of jealousy... guys jealous of the sex the guy is getting and girls jealous of how hot she looks in them tight jeans... :)

As for the standard of living list, it means very little. Would I rather live in Belgium? I think not. Is Europe a better place for women than the US? It is for me. It's all relative.

As for it's effect on sex tourism/bride-seeking/sexual tastes, there are plenty of German, Scandi etc. guys in EE and SEA looking for brides... so something isn't going right at home.

Plenty of German and Scandi women looking for foreign men in Southern Europe, Turkey or the Caribbean, usually of a different skin shade, on a poorly disguised sex holiday too, so I guess the pendelum swings both ways.

DJ FourMoney

07-12-07, 22:37

a complete falsehood cbgb.......here are the world's top 10 - countries with highest standard of living

country

1. norway
2. sweden
3. canada
4. belgium
5. australia
6. united states
7. iceland
8. netherlands
9. japan
10. finland

scandinavia is one of the more expensive places to live period, i don't believe it has to do with standard of living compared to ours. after spending time in norway, they have access to the same things we do, its a socialist country so health care is not an issue and also the government will not children go uneducated, hungry or unclothed. my friend who lives there is a single mother with 4 kids, gets no support from any of the children's fathers (2 have been deported africans), works as a nurse and is better off than 90% of the single mothers i know in the states with half as many children or even one child.

both countries (norway and sweden) are semi-isolated, which makes getting products more costly. companies and businesses have to pass the extra expense onto to consumer.

they also have very rude winters and that adds to transportation cost.

as rock said there several factors to consider before using such list to back up your argument.

we have a high standard of living because things are fairly cheap; mostly because of the shear size of our population and country.

we produce more wheat & corn in iowa than they do in many countries. we product 2-3 times as many soybeans as the next country on the list and this is generally done by 4-5 states in the middle of the country with a total size larger than germany.

we produce more cars than anybody else, including japan. when you add up gross production, that's why we can afford cars because the price is less than it is in europe for many of the same products.

competition also brings about affordablity (that's not a word) and even with a low paying job such as pep boys, walmart, and taco bell, you can still afford a place to stay, even some entertainment and maybe a car if bought it used.

you can't do that in more than 95% of the countries on earth and that's even with national health care systems in place and we don't have that, yet.

you can convert your american dollars which are pretty much worthless in europe and for sure in england to pesos and live like a king in angel city for example. i can take $1500 us and live high on the hog in kiev (that's $7300 grivna).

if i stayed away from p4p and only focused on "freebies" in ee, i would have plenty to live on for 6 months or more and even maintain my standard of living (high speed internet, cable tv, nicely furished flat, lcd tv, even a car...)

i am seriously considering that...

but in the end, even if my to be wife wants to stay in europe i feel our best opportunities are still in the us of a.

norway and sweden are too cold in the winter, for me to tolerate that i my girl would have to be a 9 and minx in bed for real. i don't want to even think about how cold it is or i have to put snow tires on the car.

for my money germany is the place to live, though berlin is where i would live and unemployment is i believe 12% as was told to me by a berliner visiting frankfurt for some while doing contract work.

finding work overseas is your biggest issue and unless you can find suitable work to maintain your standard of living you might want to reconsider being an expat...

DJ FourMoney

07-12-07, 22:52

It is true that white guys with Asian brides in particular are looked at with disdain, as is often the girl... particularly if the guy isn't good looking in any way. It's not really fair, after all some of the relationships could be excellent.

Sometimes it occurs with EE or Brazilian wives as well, but then the looks are often one of jealousy... guys jealous of the sex the guy is getting and girls jealous of how hot she looks in them tight jeans... :)

As for the standard of living list, it means very little. Would I rather live in Belgium? I think not. Is Europe a better place for women than the US? It is for me. It's all relative.

As for it's effect on sex tourism/bride-seeking/sexual tastes, there are plenty of German, Scandi etc. guys in EE and SEA looking for brides... so something isn't going right at home.

Plenty of German and Scandi women looking for foreign men in Southern Europe, Turkey or the Caribbean, usually of a different skin shade, on a poorly disguised sex holiday too, so I guess the pendelum swings both ways.

One of Doc's loaded answers...lol

Scani women complain how locals treat them. That's why they look elsewhere but as English is there 2nd language if they consider relocation is almost always universally the United States...

You can say that about many Western European women, they want to maintain that same standard of living and its hard to do that elsewhere.

Eastern European women have reservations about culture differences, the lack of Russian people in whatever area they move too and if they are over 30 their general lack of English speaking skills often scares them into wanted to stay "locally" in Europe.

Younger women are a bit more adventurous...

My lady friend told me about her best friend who's husband was a local airline pilot that was offered a job in the States to fly for one our international carriers for substantially more income. He had reservations about living in the US and his wife threaten to leave him if he didn't take the job.

Well he took the job, came back to visit his wife twice a year until he earned his green card and eventually became a American citizen. Now an American, he went and got his wife, simple and now they live in San Fran.

She complains about the lack of Russian meeting places, Russian people, Russian speaking friends, etc, etc, but would she move back to the Ukraine - HELL NO

Proving ONCE again OUR standard of living is KING, period end of story...

America is what you make of it, I can't say it any simpler than that.

Leeuwen

07-13-07, 01:22

Plenty of German and Scandi women looking for foreign men in Southern Europe, Turkey or the Caribbean, usually of a different skin shade, on a poorly disguised sex holiday too, so I guess the pendelum swings both ways.

Seriously, these women are either elderly, often divorced, perhaps abandoned, and looking for spicey romance with black beach boys in Gambia, West Indies and such, OR young and horny and fucking around in Greece, Spain or Turkey. Of course when back home they put on the good girl mask and behave like nothing have ever happened.

Marriage with a lover boy from some distant country is in most cases out of question. Social stigma is even more pronounced when it comes to women, as they are supposed to be chosen (by local men). Men on the other hand have to 'meet standards'.

Also men, despite very liberal mindset among Europeans, are supposed to be bread winners, providers and have a future to offer. It makes me wonder how successul seasoned Britons, Germans in SEA actually are. Personally I'm busy making money and watching professional career.

Leeuwen

07-13-07, 01:34

One of Doc's loaded answers...lol
She complains about the lack of Russian meeting places, Russian people, Russian speaking friends, etc, etc, but would she move back to the Ukraine - HELL NO

Proving ONCE again OUR standard of living is KING, period end of story...

America is what you make of it, I can't say it any simpler than that.

With all due respect, but you can't make a statment like that, based on some _Ukrainian_ couple's choice where to live. I bet they had not too many options, did they? People in former Soviet republics tend to believe anything is better than where they currently live. Of course I don't question higer salaries in the USA vs. Ukraine.

A qualified guess is telling me there are more Eastern Europeans in EU that in the USA. Analogy - Is OUR standard of living KING, or is yours? Nevermind, it was a rethoric question, but I hope you understand your conclusion was inaccurate.

Rock Dog

07-13-07, 02:04

1. Anyone marrying an imported wife is tagged 'loser'. It's basically written on your forehead didn't-meet-local-standards.

2. Marriage with a lover boy from some distant country is in most cases out of question. Social stigma is even more pronounced when it comes to women, as they are supposed to be chosen (by local men).

Hey there Leeuwen,

You made a couple of points that I would like to respond to.

1. This idea is for people that have been brainwashed by female propaganda. Why is it assumed that the man didn't meet "local standards"? Maybe the man got sick and tired of crappy local women and went somewhere else for a woman that met HIS standards.

This is exactly what I did. I went to Zambia and found the hottest woman you could imagine. Me? I'm 6'1" and 190 lbs in good shape too. That's 1.85 M and 90 kilos. I have my own business and make over 200,000 dollars a year. I honestly doubt that the local women here could seriously say I fail to meet their standards.

2. Women do not get chosen by men. Men get chosen by women. Men may approach a woman that they are interested in, but it is the woman who decides whether or not things will ever progress beyond "hello".

Here in Canada and the USA, it has become rather futile to bother approaching an attractive woman in the hopes of starting a relationship of any kind. Why? Because they are such a slim minority (pun intended) the ratio of willing men to attractive females is probably more than 50 to 1. As a result, you have a lot of desperate men hoping for a chance with one of these local women...... and a few smart ones who go and actually get one somewhere else. Or they just say "the hell with it" and pay for sex with a good looking one rather than compromise their standards.

Rock

Jelly Donut

07-13-07, 02:53

With all due respect, but you can't make a statment like that, based on some _Ukrainian_ couple's choice where to live. I bet they had not too many options, did they? People in former Soviet republics tend to believe anything is better than where they currently live. Of course I don't question higer salaries in the USA vs. Ukraine.

A qualified guess is telling me there are more Eastern Europeans in EU that in the USA. Analogy - Is OUR standard of living KING, or is yours? Nevermind, it was a rethoric question, but I hope you understand your conclusion was inaccurate.

People come to the United States from everywhere, mostly because in the USA it's easier to get good work than in most other places & you get to keep more of your money here than in most other places. We even have a Western European, I think.

Moreover, there's pretty much zero chance that a foriegner will ever have a child in the United Kingdom, Canada or Austrialia...or even France or Japan...or Sweden...most anywhere...that will ever become Head of State of those countries - but that can happen in the United States. This is just one example of how there's less anti-opportunity BS in the United States than elsewhere.

DJ FourMoney

07-13-07, 06:19

With all due respect, but you can't make a statment like that, based on some _Ukrainian_ couple's choice where to live. I bet they had not too many options, did they? People in former Soviet republics tend to believe anything is better than where they currently live. Of course I don't question higer salaries in the USA vs. Ukraine.

A qualified guess is telling me there are more Eastern Europeans in EU that in the USA. Analogy - Is OUR standard of living KING, or is yours? Nevermind, it was a rethoric question, but I hope you understand your conclusion was inaccurate.

If were talking about making money and becoming wealthy, as a standard of living and the various way to do it, US is still King.

My Ukrainian lady friend is actually quite happy in Kiev, her concern is that she likes African-Americans and as we all know they are NOT in great supply in Kiev or EE in general, so she wouldn't mind leaving for the US if that's where her relationship takes her.

Yes Money and Good Looks only make up about 20% of what makes you happy and the rest is made of self-confidence, family, friends and fun activities.

I live at home, over 30, make about 25K a year, with a $11K car and most American women don't touch me, so my standard of living is well under what most American women would consider ideal.

Americans put far more importance on material acquisitions than many other cultures do. So many women form Europe and other areas main concerns are being happy, having a healthy family and a loving spouse.

So your definition of a standard may be different than mine....

Bango Cheito

07-13-07, 07:45

I think the smart thing to do is exactly what Rock Dog did, say "FUCK YOU" to your own culture and act in your own best interests. No point in even pretending to help the world if you can't help yourself first!

The US vs other countries thing is a complex issue... BUT....

I'd say that what the real difference is in the US vs other countries is that in the US you can much easily have your own car, the downside to that is that you HAVE to have your own car, whether you want to or not.

In every other area you are better off in MANY other countries than in the US. We have a huge problem with availability of healthcare and decent education, not to mention an even bigger problem with poor quality food. I include Canada in this BTW, Canada has ALL the same problems the US has, except for in healthcare instead of an availability problem they have a QUALITY problem.

Doctor_Skank

07-13-07, 07:45

Scani women complain how locals treat them. That's why they look elsewhere but as English is there 2nd language if they consider relocation is almost always universally the United States...

More Scandi women in the UK than you can shake a stick it. They do tend to stick to Anglo places, for whatever reason there is a strong Scandi-Anglo bond.

Eastern European women have reservations about culture differences, the lack of Russian people in whatever area they move too and if they are over 30 their general lack of English speaking skills often scares them into wanted to stay "locally" in Europe.

Younger women are a bit more adventurous...

Europe is much closer to EE culturally than the US, after all Europe is Europe, but the US is a very easy culture to adjust to. It's essentially a neutral culture and designed to accept people from any other culture. People will always miss "their people" though, no doubt about it. A lot depends on where they end up. Russians in major metropolitan areas will have no trouble meeting other Russians there, but if they get stuck in the boondocks somewhere, their only connection out will be visa email and internet.

Not only geographically, but psychologically America is much farther away from EE than WE.

Proving ONCE again OUR standard of living is KING, period end of story...

America is what you make of it, I can't say it any simpler than that.

Compared to Gambia, Ukraine or Romania, sure. Compared to central and northern Europe, Canada, Australia or a number of other countries, no. Several countries around the world offer a high standard of living at essentially the same level, and more and more, it is possible to live with a high standard of living in EE. This doesn't include the working class, but anybody in the growing middle class (still small but growing steadily) and above is seeing real progress. Sometimes there are even standard of living advantages to living in EE.

I know a lot of people in Kiev, Warsaw, Moscow or whereever who live very very well... actually at a higher standard than they could live in the US or Europe on the same money, as tax and general services are cheap in EE. Imagine paying 13% flat tax.... and that's it. Or hiring a personal driver for $400/month and a maid for $300/month and a personal secretary to do your laundry, runs your errands etc. $500/month. That's the reality of the upper class in EE, they can afford tons of amenities that would cost an arm and a leg in the US or Europe.

With all due respect, but you can't make a statment like that, based on some _Ukrainian_ couple's choice where to live. I bet they had not too many options, did they? People in former Soviet republics tend to believe anything is better than where they currently live. Of course I don't question higer salaries in the USA vs. Ukraine.

A qualified guess is telling me there are more Eastern Europeans in EU that in the USA. Analogy - Is OUR standard of living KING, or is yours? Nevermind, it was a rethoric question, but I hope you understand your conclusion was inaccurate.

There are almost certainly more EEs in Europe than the US, but this is based on three factors:

1) proximity/ease of travel/cultural connections. Plenty of Albanians, Serbs, Romanians, Ukrainians, Russians etc. came to WE in the 90's, some of these countries now even integrated into the EU. Some came legally, many came illegally. It wasn't nearly as easy for them to enter the US.

2) visa stipulations (incl. ethnic Russians living in Germany as re-imports). Although visa stipulations have gotten tougher in Europe, it is still considerably easier for EEs to enter Europe or get European work permits as opposed to entering the US, particularly after 9/11. Tons of Poles in the UK, Russians and Croats in Germany, Romanians in France and Italy etc.

It's also quite easy for Ees to get student visas. I was screwing a tiny cute Bulgarian med student in Germany for awhile and quickly discovered she had a whole network of Bulgarian friends. Most of them "officially" students, all of them doing some kind of other work on the side. They were interestingly enough some of the most enterprising people I have ever met. Studying, collecting government support, working jobs on the side for tax-free cash and still managing to party like animals every single weekend. Respect.

3) promise of welfare, government support. It's no secret that if you get established in Europe, European taxpayers will pay for your apartment, Playstation and booze. This appeals to the average EE lout.

Seriously, these women are either elderly, often divorced, perhaps abandoned, and looking for spicey romance with black beach boys in Gambia, West Indies and such, OR young and horny and fucking around in Greece, Spain or Turkey. Of course when back home they put on the good girl mask and behave like nothing have ever happened.

Marriage with a lover boy from some distant country is in most cases out of question. Social stigma is even more pronounced when it comes to women, as they are supposed to be chosen (by local men). Men on the other hand have to 'meet standards'.

Also men, despite very liberal mindset among Europeans, are supposed to be bread winners, providers and have a future to offer. It makes me wonder how successul seasoned Britons, Germans in SEA actually are. Personally I'm busy making money and watching professional career.

Exactly, my point being that women just as men often look beyond their own social/racial/national group to find mates. In the case of young Scandi women, they are usually just looking for adventure and a sex-filled holiday. They'll almost all end up marrying "one of their own" later on, or at least someone from their own social group.

Men are more likely to leave their social group to marry a foreign women and bring her home. Whether out of love or necessity is irrelevant to them, but society generally looks at the couple as if the guy "bought" the girl... even if this isn't necessarily true.

As for Germans and Britons living in Thailand, for the most part they are what many would consider to be failures in their own society. You can take that for what it is worth.

DJ FourMoney

07-13-07, 08:28

I never said your money doesn't go further in some places.

But you underestimate the rich (and just how many politicians didn't get caught in the illegal alien nanny scandal???) and they will try and look for cheap workers their homes as well. (I only kid about the underestimation part...)

The fact that you can maintain the same standard of living or improve it, makes being an expat very popular for the 4 million Americans living abroad... Did anybody notice the UAB little league baseball team being made up of almost entirely of UAB born American children?? lol

Ah the American Oil Industry at work.... Anywhere on earth there is OIL there we are so we don't have to give up our Caddy Trucks...

Hey Doc who do I talk too about DJ'ing in Kiev?? lol

CBGBConnisur

07-13-07, 10:55

Compared to Gambia, Ukraine or Romania, sure. Compared to central and northern Europe, Canada, Australia or a number of other countries, no. Several countries around the world offer a high standard of living at essentially the same level, and more and more, it is possible to live with a high standard of living in EE. This doesn't include the working class, but anybody in the growing middle class (still small but growing steadily) and above is seeing real progress. Sometimes there are even standard of living advantages to living in EE.

I know a lot of people in Kiev, Warsaw, Moscow or whereever who live very very well... actually at a higher standard than they could live in the US or Europe on the same money, as tax and general services are cheap in EE. Imagine paying 13% flat tax.... and that's it. Or hiring a personal driver for $400/month and a maid for $300/month and a personal secretary to do your laundry, runs your errands etc. $500/month. That's the reality of the upper class in EE, they can afford tons of amenities that would cost an arm and a leg in the US or Europe.

There are almost certainly more EEs in Europe than the US, but this is based on three factors:

1) proximity/ease of travel/cultural connections. Plenty of Albanians, Serbs, Romanians, Ukrainians, Russians etc. came to WE in the 90's, some of these countries now even integrated into the EU. Some came legally, many came illegally. It wasn't nearly as easy for them to enter the US.

2) visa stipulations (incl. ethnic Russians living in Germany as re-imports). Although visa stipulations have gotten tougher in Europe, it is still considerably easier for EEs to enter Europe or get European work permits as opposed to entering the US, particularly after 9/11. Tons of Poles in the UK, Russians and Croats in Germany, Romanians in France and Italy etc.

It's also quite easy for Ees to get student visas. I was screwing a tiny cute Bulgarian med student in Germany for awhile and quickly discovered she had a whole network of Bulgarian friends. Most of them "officially" students, all of them doing some kind of other work on the side. They were interestingly enough some of the most enterprising people I have ever met. Studying, collecting government support, working jobs on the side for tax-free cash and still managing to party like animals every single weekend. Respect.

3) promise of welfare, government support. It's no secret that if you get established in Europe, European taxpayers will pay for your apartment, Playstation and booze. This appeals to the average EE lout.

That is debatable, I have been in Germany for the last two months, and think the quality of life is a big drop below what I experienced in Australia and the USA. Most Americans own their own home, have car, TV, computer, etc. Many Germans live in an apartment, go to internet cafes to surf the web, take public transport because cars are mostly unaffordable due to high fuel prices.
Australia is roughly comparable to the US in most ways, healthcare is far more affordable as is housing and food, but luxury items like cars, brand name clothing(Polo and Tommy Hilfiger CK etc.) and electronics are insanely expensive. A Mercedes S Class in Australia which costs about $70,000 to $80,000US is about $250,000US in Australia. Australians for the most part have to buy a car, Americans can lease an auto and this makes luxury cars more within reach for Americans than anyone else. Cars in some European countries are also ridiculously more expensive, in Britain an Audi Q7 costs $100K US while that same car can be purchased for $60K.

Burger flippers in Western Europe earn around $12 to $15 and hour.

Still one of my best friends who is British and went to college with me in the US moved back to the UK after school because he just didn't hack life in America.

Education and profession plays a big role in an American's earning power assuming you work for someone else, most Physicians, Dentists, Accountants, and Lawyers in the US earn six figure salaries. Physicians in Germany earn about one third what their American counterparts make. The same is true for Australia, Canada, and other socialist countries. People with limited education and talent tend to better off in Western Europe, Canada, and Australia.

There is more disparity in the US than in other industrialized countries but that does not mean America is an unfair society, in fact, I have met many people, particularly from third world countries who have been able to succeed.
In fact, an Indian fellow who ran a store where I shopped in NY owned his own home, an SUV, and only lived in the US for three years. I also think the US and Canada are more accommodating to people of different races than most other industrialized countries. There is a lot of skin color racism in Australia and many European countries. I particularly remember this one girl I met a couple of weeks ago in Germany whose parents are from Cameroon, she was born in Germany but says she is not German because she is "dark". A lot of Europeans also made a big stink when Barak Obama announced that he was running for President.

When it comes to monetary and material matters, the US will be on top for quite a while.

Everyone thinks differently, and no two pairs of eyes see the same world.

DJ FourMoney

07-13-07, 11:19

that is debatable, i have been in germany for the last two months, and think the quality of life is a big drop below what i experienced in australia and the usa. most americans own their own home, have car, tv, computer, etc. many germans live in an apartment, go to internet cafes to surf the web, take public transport because cars are mostly unaffordable due to high fuel prices.
australia is roughly comparable to the us in most ways, healthcare is far more affordable as is housing and food, but luxury items like cars, brand name clothing(polo and tommy hilfiger ck etc.) and electronics are insanely expensive. a mercedes s class in australia which costs about $70,000 to $80,000us is about $250,000us in australia. cars in some european countries are also ridiculously more expensive, in britain an audi q7 costs $100k us while that same car can be purchased for $60k.

still one of my best friends who is british and went to college with me in the us moved back to the uk after school because he just didn't hack life in america.

i can back this up....

out of the 5 german women i know, only 2 have a car. one used to have a car until it burned to the ground on the side of the a5 i (jeep wrangler). the others can't afford it, i would believe that is because of children (only 1 has no children, the others have 2, all four of them) and lack of "real" job skills.

the childless woman works for ing and travels for work often, wears a very expensive german time piece as well. she choose not to replace her car with the insurance money and she is also getting married and moving to the states, where she'll buy a car when she gets here.

one had a beat up opel corsa 5 door before her father who gets a company car, but rather drive his lexus, bought a car for her with his allowance.

the others simply can't afford it....

nobody at the hostel i stayed at (the workers) drove, they don't make enough. i got to know the hostel staff quite well, i was there 10 days total in 2 parts. they all take the s/u bahn or the ic/re home. including one that rides the train for 45 mins one way to come to work at the hostel. low skill labor doesn't pay well enough for you to own many material items in germany.

as i said before, several jobs in america play between $1300-1700 a month net and you can afford to live in a studio apartment, have high speed internet, computer, cable tv, lcd tv, a decent amount of furniture and a 7-10 year old used car with insurance.

you can do this in canada but less likely, which is why we still have a high number of canadians still coming across the boarder.

if your talking strictly material items, its hard to beat the price tag in the us.

i can get a '07 suzuki swift in kiev for $1200 givna a month or about $240 a month, i don't believe i can find a job in kiev that pays even half that a month. but i can convert some of my us dollars to afford that car outright and as i said before, live pretty good in kiev off my american money, not the income i would make locally say from dj'ing which i sure comes out to around $400-500us, which is enough for rent in most cases.

as i said before, if my lady friend can do it with a baby for 300 givna a month, then i know i can do it on 10 times that amount....

Doctor_Skank

07-13-07, 11:26

That is debatable, I have been in Germany for the last two months, and think the quality of life is a big drop below what I experienced in Australia and the USA.
When it comes to monetary and material matters, the US will be on top for quite a while.

Everyone thinks differently, and no two pairs of eyes see the same world.

As DJ already said, purchase power, especially for consumer goods and automobiles, is truly highest in the US. Many things simply cost more in Europe, not only in terms of cash value, but in terms of percentage of income.

Other factors that contribute to quality of life... such as health care, stress levels and holiday time, also factor into quality of life though. Ever meet an unhappy Italian? They might earn less, but they seem to universally love life.

Most Europeans enjoy 5-6 weeks paid vacation a year. Most Americans 2.

Maybe you can by your Q7 for $60k in the US, but in Europe you can drive a BMW 330i for that price and spend 2 weeks in Spain, 2 in Greece and 2 in Italy a year on holiday.

I'm making no judgement, having spent considerable time in both the US and Europe, where both have advantages and disadvantages. Everyday life is more comfortable in the US in my opinion, however I tend to get more OUT of life in Europe.

Beyond that, the women in Europe are more my taste. Better bodies, better style, better attitudes.

Opebo

07-13-07, 11:36

While it is certainly true that the middle- to upper-middle-class represented by the membership of this forum have a higher standard of living in the US, this is only a small minority of the population - perhaps 20-25%. Of course it is a minority that is commonly exaggerated in number because it is the subject of many TV shows and movies (second only to the rich, who are at most 1 or 2 percent of the population but are obsessed over by popular culture).

As for most people - the working class - they obviously fare far better in social democratic Europe than right-wing America. Doubtless great efforts are being undertaken in Europe to end this egalitarianism post haste.

Doctor_Skank

07-13-07, 11:42

Hey Doc who do I talk too about DJ'ing in Kiev?? lol

Put together a demo, dress nice, go to the top clubs and ask to see the art director, introduce yourself as an LA-based DJ, talk the talk and walk the walk. :)

If they can't help you, they can probably network you to guys that can. You might start at other clubs, but if you are good, you could make it.

Even if you don't get work right away, you'll be meeting the "right" people. Worth a shot... cue Eminem anthem Lose Yourself... :)

Rubber Nursey

07-13-07, 11:57

Ok, now come on guys...it's exactly this attitude that has led to the 'ugly American' stereotype that the rest of the world despises so much. It's understandable that you would proclaim your own country as 'King', but we ALL do that - Australians call Australia 'The Lucky Country' and we compare our health systems, welfare systems and education systems to America and consider ourselves much better off than you guys. We have 1.5 square kilometres of space per person in my country. The region I live in has the most hours of sunlight per year, and the most temperate conditions, in the world. Australia produces a third of the world's wool, a huge proportion of the world's gold and minerals and, to whoever said that America produces more wheat that anyone else, we would also be the world's primary exporter of wheat if it wasn't for American sanctions and interference - the American farmer's union refuses to allow our grain (and our lamb, recognised as the best in the world) into the US, and America STOLE one of our biggest wheat importers, Iraq, during the invasion. Try reading something other than American media.

But that's beside the point. Point is, we all think that our living standards are better than everyone else's. That's why a worldwide, unbiased survery is the only way to gauge the true 'winner'. You guys ended up at number 6. Deal with it.

As for beautiful women working in McDonalds...when are you going to learn that each nation has their own ideas of what's beautiful and what's not? And that more often than not, the 'exotic' will be considered more beautiful than the average local? I would be hard-pressed to find a negro or latina working in my local McDonalds (and I don't mean to offend with the word 'negro' - I'm just distinguishing them from our Australian Aboriginals). Negro and Latin men and women are considered very attractive by a lot of Australians, probably because they are pretty hard to come by in this country.

Fact is, beautiful people, of BOTH genders, have it easier than the rest of us. Beautiful people never have to work for a bloody thing - it's just handed to them on a plate. There's no beautiful people working in McDonalds because they have already been handed the great jobs, or are in relationships, simply BECAUSE they are beautiful. If you ask the locals from these other places you're always talking about, I'm sure they'd say that there's no beautiful women working in dead-end jobs in THEIR countries, either.

Beauty is totally subjective. You guys find it odd that beautiful women in Europe are working in Maccas, but they are only beautiful to YOU, not necessarily to the local men. And the standard of women working in fast food joints, proves absolutely NOTHING about the standard of living in a particular country. That's just ridiculous.

Capt Ajax

07-13-07, 12:22

Everyday life is more comfortable in the US in my opinion, however I tend to get more OUT of life in Europe.

Beyond that, the women in Europe are more my taste. Better bodies, better style, better attitudes.

......having also lived in Europe, I completely agree with your comments Dr_S.
I think Montreal, Canada offers the best of both worlds.....pretty women with better style, better bodies and better attitudes. I also think everyday life for your average middle class French Canadian is quite comfortable and I would live there in a heart beat.

Capt Ajax

07-13-07, 13:30

Folks, we have an obesity problem here in the good ol USA. Desperate guys actually paying $$$$ to see women like this....eeeeeewwwwwww

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/ers/372802071.html

http://joy4pleasure.escortwww.com/photos.php

Jelly Donut

07-13-07, 14:29

America STOLE one of our biggest wheat importers, Iraq, during the invasion. Try reading something other than American media.

I know some Australians did pretty well under the oil-for-food kickback scheme, where a few of your fellow Aussies were paying around $220 million to Iraqi officials working for Saddam Hussein in order to secure the Iraqi wheat market. At least today, Iraq imports wheat from a variety of countries, Australia, United States, Canada, maybe others - at least some competition exists - which I think benefits the average Iraqi.

Maybe you should try some other media? :)

Rubber Nursey

07-13-07, 14:51

I know some Australians did pretty well under the oil-for-food kickback scheme, where Austrailia was paying around $220 million to Iraqi officials working for Saddam Hussein in order to secure the Iraqi wheat market.

Sorry if there's competition these days...

You're absolutely right and that was utterly disgraceful. However, we had the market cornered in that country for a very long time and when America went in (long before the AWB scandal came to light) they imposed sanctions on imports - cutting off the supply of Australian wheat - and then started bringing their own into the country. Australia couldn't do anything to stop it, because our pathetic weasel of a Prime Minister had already promised your pathetic weasel of a President that we (along with other countries) would stop exporting to Iraq. That was exceptionally underhanded on the Bush Administration's part.

Mind you, I'm certainly not blaming the average American for any of that - just as I don't blame the average Aussie for the shameful oil-for-food debacle. And it has absolutely nothing to do with American Women, so I shouldn't really have brought it up. I just got defensive when whoever it was said that America produced more wheat than anyone else - as a farmer's daughter, I'm probably a bit biased. :)

*** Jelly updated his, so I'll update mine - for the record, I'm glad there's now competition in Iraq and I'm sure it does benefit the Iraqi people. I guess I'm just still sore over how it happened and, more than that, the huge losses that Australian farmers suffered because of it.

CBGBConnisur

07-13-07, 17:58

As DJ already said, purchase power, especially for consumer goods and automobiles, is truly highest in the US. Many things simply cost more in Europe, not only in terms of cash value, but in terms of percentage of income.

Other factors that contribute to quality of life... such as health care, stress levels and holiday time, also factor into quality of life though. Ever meet an unhappy Italian? They might earn less, but they seem to universally love life.

Most Europeans enjoy 5-6 weeks paid vacation a year. Most Americans 2.

Maybe you can by your Q7 for $60k in the US, but in Europe you can drive a BMW 330i for that price and spend 2 weeks in Spain, 2 in Greece and 2 in Italy a year on holiday.

I'm making no judgement, having spent considerable time in both the US and Europe, where both have advantages and disadvantages. Everyday life is more comfortable in the US in my opinion, however I tend to get more OUT of life in Europe.

Beyond that, the women in Europe are more my taste. Better bodies, better style, better attitudes.

True, most Americans get only 2 weeks a year unless they work for the government or are a physician or nurse. Yes European women have better style and looks and are less expensive.

Opebo

07-13-07, 19:21

Folks, we have an obesity problem here in the good ol USA. Desperate guys actually paying $$$$ to see women like this....eeeeeewwwwwww

It is true that men in the US are more desperate than others, and certainly the nation is fat, male and female. But I would like to interject a note about Drugs.

Gentlemen it is the recreational drug which creates thin, motivated women who will provide us with what we want.

Even here in Thailand the Police State is in operation, destroying this life-giving trade - of course not to the level of the Original Police State, but getting worse every year. Nowadays I see a lot more chubby Thais, and I think it is due to more than just the Western diet (most of them still don't eat that crap). Non-drug users are much more apt to say 'no' to various enjoyable acts such as anal sex or bareback.

While the Forces of Social Control do their violence against prostitutes in an attempt to prevent we men from having sex, their War on Drugs has an even greater eunichization effect.

DJ FourMoney

07-13-07, 20:36

RN -

Australia is roughly the size of the upper 48, however we have more people in California alone and our GDP is $1.62 Trillion with a "T" as its known has a larger GDP than MANY nations on this earth.

Plus the middle part of the country as I said produces more corn, soybean and wheat than anybody else on the planet and we're loosing farmers on a daily basis because kids don't wanna stay on the farms, they want to work in the cities.

We have been trading wheat for oil with Russia even when it was part of the USSR and still have enough to sell to other countries and for everybody to have at least 4 loafs of bread in the States.

You also have to understand the dynamics of our political system and we have cut back funding on infrastructure since the 1970s. Our schools systems were once the world standard and we STILL teach many of the world's young people at the University level.

I met one Brazilian that goes to Univ of "Mazzu" (Missouri) on a Football (Soccer) scholarship in Germany and met a Univ of Florida "Gators" (Snap, Snap) student from Peru. So while I'll agree that primary and secondary education has leap frogged us, it would only take a grand investment by the federal government to put us right back on top, I say roughly a 1/3 of what's being spent on fighting Iraq.

As Doc said, your qualify of life and what you consider a standard of living may be different than mine. As my Ukrainian lady friend told me, she's happy even though she doesn't have any money to have real options.

I wouldn't mind relocating, however I do like my American TV (what little of it I watch) and I am a car nut, so I can make that work anywhere. For instance I wanna drive on the left side of the car and the right side of the road, so no Australia or British Empire for me. Germany has the mildest climate for the most part, especially the southern half of the country. I just don't know what type of work I would be doing over there and like I said in places like Berlin unemployment is high. You better have an idea of what your doing before you move anywhere.

Plus the women are better looking especially in Scandinavia and Eastern Europe. The woman elsewhere aren't really better looking than American women, when you find one that doesn't weight over 200lbs.

I met some Kiwi's while in Sweden and they were quite attractive but not down for the brown as far as I could tell as they liked hanging out with loutish, heavy drinking, college aged US types.

For those looking long term you need time to invest. The days of you being able to walk into a country and pick from its best women are largely over because local competition has improved and EU membership gives them options they never enjoyed before.

I found an interesting stat not too long ago and its very rough, so take it with a gain of salt.

Roughly .07% of the female population in Russia would consider to marrying a Western man (Europe, Canada and the US). That doesn't sound like much, but according to this guys calculations that means roughly 54,000 women available every year with more turning 18 by the minute.

That sounds about right though because while my lady friend would leave, her other two friends wouldn't do it and she said they were nice. I saw pictures, not that impressive, not ugly either.

So yeah get out there while the gettin is good...

DJ FourMoney

07-13-07, 20:40

Put together a demo, dress nice, go to the top clubs and ask to see the art director, introduce yourself as an LA-based DJ, talk the talk and walk the walk. :)

If they can't help you, they can probably network you to guys that can. You might start at other clubs, but if you are good, you could make it.

Even if you don't get work right away, you'll be meeting the "right" people. Worth a shot... cue Eminem anthem Lose Yourself... :)

Awwww man I thought you had the hook up!

I guess I could put a demo together....

Bango Cheito

07-13-07, 21:50

George90

07-14-07, 00:40

Interesting exchange of ideas and opinions over the last few days. I don't have much to add.

I would just say that each individual has his/her own tastes and preferences. Not everyone American wants to drive aorund in a small car 3 hours a day. I lived in NYC for a few years and a car in Manhattan is a hindrance, not a help. Parking can cost $3,000 a year.

I would welcome living in a city where public transportation was fast enough and reliable enough and taxis were plentiful enopugh and cheap enough for a car to be unnecessary. I have many more things I would rather spend my money on. Sex being foremost among them. Almost every large South American city fits that bill.

@Obepo, "While the Forces of Social Control do their violence against prostitutes in an attempt to prevent we men from having sex, their War on Drugs has an even greater eunichization effect."

I hope you aren't advocating the use of illlegal drugs so that strung out women will engage in unsafe sex!?!?!?!? That would be just plain sick!

Rubber Nursey

07-14-07, 08:16

DJ, as you said, Australia has a ridiculously small population. Comparing us to America using total figures, is comparing apples to oranges. To get a true comparison (particularly if we're talking about overall quality of living in various countries) we really have to use per capita figures. I got the following stats from nationmaster.com.

GDP: America's total GDP is by far the largest, almost three times more than the number two country. However, America's per capita GDP is $39,452.74 and Australia's is $31,421.40 - not such a huge difference.

Wheat: In total wheat production, America is rated number 3, Australia number 5. But per capita, Australia is number 1, producing almost twice the amount of its nearest competitor and nearly 6 times more wheat than America, who comes in at number 7. FYI, Australia accounts for more organic cropland then the next 36 countries on the list combined. We're number 1 in gross amount of land devoted to agriculture and America is at number 4. Per capita, we're still number 1 and the US drops down to number 23.

Exports: For total exports, America is number 2 and Australia is down at number 28. Per capita, we both drop waaaay down, but Australia comes out ahead at number 53, with America at number 62.

But anyway, more interesting for you guys - and more on topic! - are the female population stats on the nationmaster site. You can search the number of women in a particular age group in every country, according to actual numbers or percentage of the population.

For sheer numbers of women aged 20-24, for example, the top three countries are China, India and Indonesia. But guess what...America is at number 4! Don't bother coming to Australia to find 20-24 year old women, though. We're rated number 61!!

The top four are the same again for women aged 25-29 (with Brazil at number 5). Australia does only slightly better with this age group, coming in at number 58.

With all the discussions recently about marrying foreign women, this site could be quite handy. You could find out who has the most females in the desired age group and then cross-reference to find info on income, lifestyle, marriage rates, divorce rates, childbirth, education levels, etc. I had lots of fun messing around with it.

Rubber Nursey

07-14-07, 08:18

Bango Cheito

07-14-07, 08:32

George that's my point entirely. Most Europeans, Asians, Latin Americans etc are happy to just live somewhere where they dont have to WORRY about driving, because the transit takes them everywhere.

As for living in a house vs apartment, I had a house here in NYC, sold it, THANK GOD, never doing anything like that again. It's condos or bust for me from now on.

There are many things I won't miss about life in the US, the fact that I have no health insurance (I'd be able to pay for it if my move weren't imminent but it would put a serious hurt on me), the crappy food, the fact that you can't do anything but breathe here without paying money to do it, also I consider Bogota's transport system better than the subway here now, the subway COULD be better but it's just not well run at all. Also I love my bicycle and Bogota is full of bicycle lanes.

One thing I will miss about NYC is the way people are so in-your-face and direct, in other words HONEST. I don't think there's anywhere else in the world like it. Here politeness and social convention take a back seat and people just tell it like it is with no regard for protocol or people's feelings. It can be jarring at times but I've gotten used to it and I just love knowing where I stand at all times, not to mention being able to let others know where THEY stand.

The big problem is that I have always seen NYC as this kind of island of anti-consumerism and in many ways it was just that for the longest, it was really the last holdout against the big corporations, they notoriously fell flat on their faces when they tried to make inroads here through the 70s and 80s (except McDonalds, they did well). Now that's all changed, everytime I see another Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts or another fucking Red Lobster go in I just wanna puke. :(

What does this have to do with AW? I think the REAL problem is exactly this, the absolute imbalance of over-the-top materialism and consumerism that fuels the attitudes of both women AND men here and encourage ridiculously selfish behavior to the point where two people can no longer stay together anymore or even GET together. Modern society here is designed and built to make everybody desire things they don't REALLY want, and we end up losing up on what we REALLY want to satisfy our shallowest of whims.

I hang on a lot of other forums and I see the same song sung over and over again by waves and waves of expats and potential expats. Everybody is crying over what they are missing or what they might be missing, but in the same breath they are bitching about the materialism in America. They see the materialism on the outside but seem to be unaware of just how much of it has been INTERNALIZED. They don't see the blatant irony in the fact that they 'can't stand the rat race' etc etc but apparently it's worse than being crucified if they can't import everly last scrap of shit they've collected over their whole lives, have to give up driving their precious cars, or can't find their favorite fucking brand of peanut butter anymore.

Those are the type of expat who are heading for a severe case of culture shock. They will wake up in a year or two to find that they have been played by the local women and beaten at their own game. They moved because they were smart enough to realize how fucked up their culture was and recognized something they liked in another culture, but then ended up taking their fucked up culture with them and never really had a deep enough respect for their "new" culture to REALLY steep themselves in it and learn it deeply.

Guys like this invariably attract all the gold-diggers from scores of miles around. They complain about shallow women, but they themselves don't have much depth to them. They want their women in tip-top shape but wouldn't see tip-top staring back at them if they looked in a mirror. They make a minimal effort at best to learn the local language, yet are mystified why nobody seems to be able to understand them.

Bogota as a town is a perfect example of this. Although I'm totally looking forward to building a new life there, I would NOT recommend anybody else try it in that particular town, unless they are willing to REALLY understand the language, the culture, the history etc. Bogota is a place where 50% of the people are the most on-point intelligent upright generally cool people you could ever meet and the other 50% are the biggest fuckups and scammers you've ever seen. The locals are constantly playing a sifting game with each other, and if you aren't able to participate in the local culture you haven't got a chance, ESPECIALLY not in relationships, you will end up with the bottom of the barrel inevitably, time and time again.

And then of course you'll go on forums like these and say "MAN MY CITY SUCKS EVERY LAST WOMAN HERE IS A BACKSTABBING *****!" etc. :P

CBGBConnisur

07-14-07, 08:36

Many Australian and other Western men are going to Asia these days. Great return on investment in these places. A friend of mine showed me a video he made of a shopping district in Shanghai and I was amazed, the average Chinese woman(at least in that part of the country) looks like Lucy Lui.

In the long run, its going to become a Chinese Asian dominated world, one of the largest Investment Banks in the world is predicting that it will have the biggest economy by 2040 and that is making very conservative assumptions, another former World Bank head says 2025. Guess which country keeps the dollar from collapsing? China. China is also the reason for the rise of the Euro as they have been "diversifying".

There is probably another two decades of economic robustness for the US and Europe.

Opebo

07-14-07, 11:17

@Obepo, "While the Forces of Social Control do their violence against prostitutes in an attempt to prevent we men from having sex, their War on Drugs has an even greater eunichization effect."

I hope you aren't advocating the use of illlegal drugs so that strung out women will engage in unsafe sex!?!?!?!? That would be just plain sick!

I'm not advocating the use, I'm trying to suggest a reason why the State expends so much effort in deterring many drugs. Certainly I am pleased that women use them, but my advocacy can hardly have any effect - I'm sure the appeal is in the drugs themselves. They must be quite wonderful, though I cannot say having never sampled any. Or at any rate they will seem, relatively speaking, wonderful to poor people who have little if any enjoyment in life.

By the by, what does 'strung out' mean? Seems to me if the individual prefers consuming the drug to abstaining, then everything is great and there's no need to make any judgements or use pejorative terms about their condition.

DJ FourMoney

07-14-07, 12:48

Notice how it all comes back to the car.

That's the biggest stumbling block for an American living abroad. They don't wanna give up the fucking car, no matter how impractical it is where they are going to live. They feel it's an outrage that gas prices are high, costs of cars are high, and there's no parking. That's done ON PURPOSE guys. Too many cars in a city make it miserable for people.

The town I'm moving to (Bogota) by 2015 won't even allow private vehicle traffic during rush hours. I say good for them. And you are NEVER going to get me to drive down there, I'll leave it to the pros.

That's also one of the biggest causes of culture shock for immigrants here, if not THE big cause. The car culture makes us very isolated and anti-social. Not to mention they can't FATHOM a place where you couldn't just walk to the store and pick up a few things.

You always bang on cars, your a New Yorker you wouldn't understand...

There are 300 of us in a Kmart parking lot every Thurs. Young and Old.

We love cars, cars are fun, they are fast they make great noises.

There 30,000 people on the SRT Forums, 55,000 on Corral.net (Mustangs) and about 15,000 on the Benz forum, it doesn't isolate us from anything. Hardly any of us know our neighbors next door, I find that more troubling than owning a car.

Jelly Donut

07-14-07, 15:09

Wheat: In total wheat production, America is rated number 3, Australia number 5. But per capita, Australia is number 1, producing almost twice the amount of its nearest competitor and nearly 6 times more wheat than America, who comes in at number 7. FYI, Australia accounts for more organic cropland then the next 36 countries on the list combined. We're number 1 in gross amount of land devoted to agriculture and America is at number 4. Per capita, we're still number 1 and the US drops down to number 23.

<snip>

For sheer numbers of women aged 20-24, for example, the top three countries are China, India and Indonesia. But guess what...America is at number 4! Don't bother coming to Australia to find 20-24 year old women, though. We're rated number 61!!

Do a lot of Australians leave Australia? I know in sweeping around the web I came across a number that suggested half a million Australians visit the United States every year. It seemed like a very large number; as you may know, a lot of people "visiting" the United States are trying to find work here, or working here under-the-table. I know a lot of girls get captured by the idea of Hollywood. But this 61 number seems low...is Australia exporting it's 20-24 year olds? Are they all partying in Indonesia?

At any rate, the thing about wheat - it's a commodity. The per cap number may say more about Australia, than about the global supply of wheat. Whenever someone "corners the market" on a commodity something is wrong with the marketplace. Something political or even corrupt is taking place that is keeping customers from getting the real (lower) price. I won't labor over this further. The last thing I want is to argue with the farmers daughter.

Bango Cheito

07-14-07, 15:34

The UK Canada Aus and New Zealand ALL have about 10% of their populations living as expats at any given time. That's a pretty normal number for small to mid sized countries actually. Bigger countries like the USA and Brazil and China only have around 1-2% of their population living abroad.

Immigration is a very cyclical thing though, the majority of expats tend to repatriate over time, in general half of them go back home within 5 years.

Ezinho

07-14-07, 15:54

I hang on a lot of other forums and I see the same song sung over and over again by waves and waves of expats and potential expats. Everybody is crying over what they are missing or what they might be missing, but in the same breath they are bitching about the materialism in America. They see the materialism on the outside but seem to be unaware of just how much of it has been INTERNALIZED. They don't see the blatant irony in the fact that they 'can't stand the rat race' etc etc but apparently it's worse than being crucified if they can't import everly last scrap of shit they've collected over their whole lives, have to give up driving their precious cars, or can't find their favorite fucking brand of peanut butter anymore.

Fantastic post, Bango. This reminds me of an American expat I met while I was living in Brasil. This guy had essentially liquidated all his assets and moved to Rio, living the good life, and fucking many beautiful women. We were eating dinner one night at a restaurant in front of Copacabana beach, and what was the topic of discussion? The women? The beautiful weather? The beach? Nope. He was complaining about his ketchup. Apparently, he was unhappy that he was not able to get Heinz ketchup at this restaurant for his fries, and that the local brand was inferior. If guys on here aren't familiar, the ketchup in South America is not as thick as American-made ketchup, and a tad bit sweeter. Apparently, this bothered him so much that he had to complain to the waiter, even going as far as describing, in detail, why the American made ketchup is superior, the thickness, the flavor, etc. Granted, he was a good termas wingman, but that was the last time I ever went out to a restaurant with him.

We love cars, cars are fun, they are fast they make great noises.

That's funny, that's the same way I feel about Latinas!

Seriously though, I think you're missing the point. We're not complaining about cars. I love cars too. What we're complaining about is the fact that you HAVE to DRIVE a car in this fucking country if you want to get anywhere! There are no other means of transportation! So esentially, you are dependant on your car, and if you don't have one, you're fucked. No job, no social life, nothing.

What's funny is that a lot of Americans actually justify having to drive by saying that it's "liberating". The "freedom" to drive is just so great because you can "get anywhere you want or need to go", when in fact, it's the exact opposite, you are BOUND by your car, you have NO choice! In addition, it's another form of debt for Americans, with car payments, maintenance, gas, insurance, etc.

You like driving back and forth to work every day in rush hour traffic, averaging 25 mph on the highway because of congestion and traffic jams? Fine with me, knock yourself out. But give me the option of being able to take a bus or metro to get where I need to go, that's all I ask!

Anyways, my point is there is a difference in owning a car as a hobby, which I think is awesome, and ownng a car because you HAVE to, because there is no alternative mode of transportation. That is what we're complainign about on here.

Rubber Nursey

07-14-07, 16:46

Do a lot of Australians leave Australia? I know in sweeping around the web I came across a number that suggested half a million Australians visit the United States every year. It seemed like a very large number; as you may know, a lot of people "visiting" the United States are trying to find work here, or working here under-the-table. I know a lot of girls get captured by the idea of Hollywood. But this 61 number seems low...is Australia exporting it's 20-24 year olds? Are they all partying in Indonesia?

I won't labor over this further. The last thing I want is to argue with the farmers daughter.

National pride is a dangerous thing sometimes. I'll lay off the patriotism. :)

Our young women aren't going anywhere - we simply don't have any. There's no young men, either. A significant percentage of our population is well over fifty years old. Our ageing population is actually reaching crisis point, with the Government frantically trying to put things in place to cope with the massive skills shortages and pension claims that will occur when all the baby boomers start dropping out of the workforce, en masse. Our Government is even paying out thousands of dollars in 'baby bonuses' to everyone who gives birth (regardless of their income) to encourage us to 'go forth and procreate'.

I don't know that America is a primary destination for Aussies to look for work - although, I'm sure plenty do. But the US isn't very agreeable when it comes to giving out work visas to Australians. (We're not too keen on giving them to American's, either. Not sure where all this hostility is coming from!)Traditionally, Aussies head to the UK and Ireland, where work visas are much easier for us to obtain and the pound is worth so much more than our dollar. We can go to NZ without visas at all, which some people take advantage of for a change of scenery, but their dollar is worth less than ours, so it's not much of a money spinner.

It would be interesting to find out the age bracket that those half a million Aussies visiting the US fit into. With the first stages of the baby boomers' retirements already well underway, we've seen the rise of what we call the 'Grey Nomads' - retirees who sell up, buy a caravan or mobile home and just travel around Australia, indefinitely. Literally thousands of them. A significant number are also travelling overseas. I wouldn't be surprised if they account for a very large percentage of your Aussie visitors.

StudioCat

07-14-07, 16:54

I love my Lotus Elise. How does the song go? Older whiskey, faster cars, younger women. I live in Queens. The drive home at 80mph on the Long island Expressway clears my head. What's wrong with that?

George90

07-14-07, 17:20

Fantastic post, Bango. This reminds me of an American expat I met while I was in living in Brasil. This guy had essentially liquidated all his assets and moved to Rio, living the good life, and fucking many beautiful women. We were eating dinner one night at a restaurant in front of Copacabana beach, and what was the topic of discussion? The women? The beautiful weather? The beach? Nope. He was complaining about his ketchup. Apparently, he was unhappy that he was not able to get Heinz ketchup at this restaurant for his fries, and that the local brand was inferior. If guys on here aren't familiar, the ketchup in South America is not as thick as American-made ketchup, and a tad bit sweeter. Apparently, this bothered him so much that he had to complain to the waiter, even going as far as describing, in detail, why the American made ketchup is superior, the thickness, the flavor, etc. Granted, he was a good termas wingman, but that was the last time I ever went out to a restaurant with him.

Ezinho,

Who was that guy?

I check out the mail-order-bride sites from time to time. Last year there was an American guy who complained about the very same thing, the ketchup!

He says lives abroad in various countries; Korea, Panama, Colombia, Brazil, and comes to the US only once in a while. His rant was triggered when he was in Colombia, I forget which city, and a restaurant didn't give him ketchup with his French fries. He had to ask for it. He thought that the ketchup should be given automatically the way it is in US restaurants. He continued with the low quality of ketchup in Colombia compared to the US.

He came across like an idiot because the men were on the forum to discuss foreign women as potenital wives, not the state of ketchup in Colombia.

He apparently also likes to talk about the 'casas' in Colombia and the women working in them, even though that is not a legitmate topic of those forums.

It is a small world!

P.S. I happen to like Brazilian ketchup. The sweeter taste suits me, though I would prefer it to be slightly thicker.

Capt Ajax

07-14-07, 17:36

Last year there was an American guy who complained about the very same thing, the ketchup!

He says lives abroad in various countries; Korea, Panama, Colombia, Brazil, and comes to the US only once in a while. His rant was triggered when he was in Colombia, I forget which city, and a restaurant didn't give him ketchup with his French fries. He had to ask for it. He thought that the ketchup should be given automatically the way it is in US restaurants. He continued with the low quality of ketchup in Colombia compared to the US.

He came across like an idiot because the men were on the forum to discuss foreign women as potenital wives, not the state of ketchup in Colombia.

This idioT should have taken a shipping container load of Ketchup with him to Columbia.......with guys like this, it's no wonder American Women are so fucked up.

DJ FourMoney

07-14-07, 22:02

I love my Lotus Elise. How does the song go? Older whiskey, faster cars, younger women. I live in Queens. The drive home at 80mph on the Long island Expressway clears my head. What's wrong with that?

Great Car! Love those things....

I agree with Ezinho, in a place like Los Angeles area setup you have to have a car basically. Its socially unacceptable to not have a car...

I love cars, it is very much a hobby. Back in the early 90's I didn't have a car for around 3 years and honestly I got tired of depending on people to go out, borrowing the gf's car to meet other women (not my gf my homies), etc, etc.

I would buy car magazines still and help people on their projects. I mean I still buy Hot Wheels for crying out loud...

I do find it liberating, its my gas I burn it, it cost $3.50 a gallon but my range is around 350 miles on one tank mainly city driving and a little bit of boost under acceleration.

That's why I would move to a car lover's paradise like Germany and tho its very expensive to be a car nut in Germany, I could make it work... I would give up the super nice condo and live in the boonies to own a car if that's what it took.

Gissen didn't look so bad...

Plus I would use public transportation because its affordable and its the best. My friend Ine didn't buy a car, not because she didn't want too, she wanted to invest it instead. So she makes do with the Bahn, ICE and her bike.

I believe both options together are best. Sometimes public transport is better like going to a ball game, a concert, a show, a night on the town, etc. I like the option of walking around talking, especially wuth my girl (when I have one).

Road trips are fun.... I am not a backpacker this is the next best option

DJ FourMoney

07-14-07, 22:09

This idioT should have taken a shipping container load of Ketchup with him to Columbia.......with guys like this, it's no wonder American Women are so fucked up.

That's what I told my friend in Norway about Dr Pepper, that shhh is $5US a can in Norway...

Yeah on his next trip home, go to Smart & Final and stock up, what an idiot...

Bango Cheito

07-15-07, 05:03

I love my Lotus Elise. How does the song go? Older whiskey, faster cars, younger women. I live in Queens. The drive home at 80mph on the Long island Expressway clears my head. What's wrong with that?

Most probably very little is wrong with that if you're driving at a time where you can hit 80mph on that road, as long as you're not running over anybody who isn't a waste of oxygen ;)

The ketchup guy, the funny thing is I know EXACTLY what he's talking about. Heinz REALLY is the best ketchup. But in the end, either give up the ketchup, or move where the ketchup is good and cheap if its so goddamn important to you. I decided a long time ago ketchup is just unhealthy anyways. :P

RN, Aus immigration is hard on Yanks AND Canucks. The reall good thing is that you guys have anmesty every 5 years or so I believe. I had some Canadian friends who were just beach bums until the next amnesty came along and then got legit jobs and settled.

Jelly Donut

07-15-07, 16:33

Besides someone has to be really naïve if she/he thinks that US is paradise where one can find a great job because in US everything is possible. It doesn’t matter where you live if you want to make good money you have to 1) know local language (fluently) 2) graduate university ( best a local one) 3) have an idea for your own business 4) to be a specialist for example in cardiosurgery (= university + years of work experience)
Gentlemen, you look for a women who’s beautiful, intelligent, feminine, who will take care of your children and who will work at an office making extra money.

These are good points concerning generating wealth, but only about 20 percent of the millionaires in the United States have masters degrees or better. Around 8 percent have law degrees and 6 percent have medical degrees. I know a few (relatively) young cardiologists - it's true they will soon be earning a lot of money - but they have spent a lot of years not working and have significant debt. They also have lifestyles that may discourage savings/investing in favor of consuming. They are not rich, but they can generate a lot of income, generating income is not the same thing as building wealth.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

You don't need to be book smart (obviously, it helps) in order to make money in the United States, you can make money the old way - work hard and be tight with your money. It's easier in the USA than many other countries, because our tax system encourages it more than a lot of other countries. However, it's not much fun. If you go down that path, more often than not, you need a wife that is more frugal than you. Certainly, if you marry someone who enjoys spending money and can not constrain themselves, you are not going to generate a lot of wealth. At least not as much as you could.

http://www.pbs.org/kcts/affluenza/

So, I think, if you are looking for a "good" wife you probably are better off finding someone who understands how hard it is to earn and keep money. I know a few American women like this. Interestingly, the most frugal woman I know of - after my grandmother - lives on the Upper East Side NYC. She's an old Yankee. Tight with a dollar. I know a couple of sweet AW's that are kind of like this, but they certainly would enjoy a trip to Paris or Bali if they had the opportunity. Of course, as an American guy, I know a lot of AWs who could blow any amount of money in short order. In contrast, I know a Colombiana who actually keeps me from spending money on things or activites that don't generate income or meet basic needs.

George90

07-15-07, 17:36

These are good points concerning generating wealth, but only about 20 percent of the millionaires in the United States have masters degrees or better. Around 8 percent have law degrees and 6 percent have medical degrees. I know a few (relatively) young cardiologists - it's true they will soon be earning a lot of money - but they have spent a lot of years not working and have significant debt. They also have lifestyles that may discourage savings/investing in favor of consuming. They are not rich, but they can generate a lot of income, generating income is not the same thing as building wealth.

You don't need to be book smart (obviously, it helps) in order to make money in the United States, you can make money the old way - work hard and be tight with your money. It's easier in the USA than many other countries, because our tax system encourages it more than a lot of other countries. However, it's not much fun. If you go down that path, more often than not, you need a wife that is more frugal than you. Certainly, if you marry someone who enjoys spending money and can not constrain themselves, you are not going to generate a lot of wealth. At least not as much as you could.

I cannot express just how 'spot on' (as they say in England) what JD has written. Anyone who wants to get rich in the US need to print his post and frame it!

I think 2 economists wrote a book on millionaires in the US about 5 years ago. They found that getting rich is much more related to how much one saves than about how much one earns. Every financial advisor I have every come accross has emphasized that if a person starts saving regularly at a young age (say 21), he or she can accumulate millions of dollars by retirement age. The magic is something called compounding; earning interest on previously earned interest.

Of course, staying on a long-term saving regimen takes discipline and an aversion to the wanton materialism of US society. It also means focusing away from the earnings rat-race in which one's self worth is measured by one's salary.

I have not met many women in the US who have such discipline and lifestyle. I had childhood friends whose parents grew up in the shadow of the Great Depression. They, the parents, had financial discipline. I think most people these days living in wealthy, stable countries with generous safety nets have no idea of the terror and horror of financial ruin in the 1930's. It wasn't for nothing that many committed suicide. I have not met many men who don't put a great deal of their self-worth into making more money than the next guy, and showing it by spending more money than the next guy.

The current housing correction may bring back some discipline but I think the correction would have to last many years for it to sink into thick skulls.

If a man, who is so inclined, wants to live a more frugal lifestyle and save more of his hard-earned money, he will have difficulty finding a suitable mate in the US. From what I see, US women are even more consumerist and materialistic than US men becuase they use consumer items to show how well they have beaten sexism and become financially successful. I still recommend looking abroad for wives.

Bango Cheito

07-16-07, 02:17

You have a point there George. My neighbors here in the Bronx were both born in 1927, and so grew up in the Depression and they say that the 30s were the WORST years NYC ever saw, much worse than all the mayhem of the 60s 70s and 80s. They DID have some form of help in those days, called 'home relief' but it was basically just enough to keep families from outright starving to death.

NYC is probably one of the only places in this country where you even have a ghost's chance in hell of getting a date without a car. But even then, if you live too simply you are GONE, completely off the radar.

Let me tell you about the night I separated from my now ex-wife. We had been fighting for weeks on end straight and decided to go out together for a night on the town to try and reconcile and let some steam off. So she wanted to go see a Broadway play and I wanted to try out this new Argentinian restuarant. We went and say the play, it sucked, but I didn't say anything not wanting to ruin the evening. Now it was 10:30pm, and to get to the restaurant, all we had to do is hop on the #1 train, we were right at an entrance to the station and it was a block away on the other end. Fucking ***** REFUSES to go into the subway despite the fact that it's next to impossible to get a cab in the theater district right after the shows let out. So we stand there for 25 minutes trying to get a cab, finally she relents, fuming, and we take the fucking train. Needless to say we had another blowout, but it didn't even matter to me anymore. I knew that was my last straw.

I don't EVER think of a girls' race background or nationality as far as relationships are concerned but I knew that as far as the two of us human beings were concerned we were not meant to be together.

Chocha Monger

07-16-07, 06:04

Let me tell you about the night I separated from my now ex-wife. We had been fighting for weeks on end straight and decided to go out together for a night on the town to try and reconcile and let some steam off. So she wanted to go see a Broadway play and I wanted to try out this new Argentinian restuarant. We went and say the play, it sucked, but I didn't say anything not wanting to ruin the evening. Now it was 10:30pm, and to get to the restaurant, all we had to do is hop on the #1 train, we were right at an entrance to the station and it was a block away on the other end. Fucking ***** REFUSES to go into the subway despite the fact that it's next to impossible to get a cab in the theater district right after the shows let out. So we stand there for 25 minutes trying to get a cab, finally she relents, fuming, and we take the fucking train. Needless to say we had another blowout, but it didn't even matter to me anymore. I knew that was my last straw.

I don't EVER think of a girls' race background or nationality as far as relationships are concerned but I knew that as far as the two of us human beings were concerned we were not meant to be together.
In my case I concluded that my ex was just not meant to live with other human beings. She was from NYC and had the attitude typical of the women who grow up there. I got tired of watching her treat waiters, cashiers and anyone else who was forced to deal with her like shit. I don't think she'd fare well in her old age if she ends up needing caretakers to feed her and wipe her ass!

CBGBConnisur

07-16-07, 11:17

National pride is a dangerous thing sometimes. I'll lay off the patriotism. :)

Our young women aren't going anywhere - we simply don't have any. There's no young men, either. A significant percentage of our population is well over fifty years old. Our ageing population is actually reaching crisis point, with the Government frantically trying to put things in place to cope with the massive skills shortages and pension claims that will occur when all the baby boomers start dropping out of the workforce, en masse. Our Government is even paying out thousands of dollars in 'baby bonuses' to everyone who gives birth (regardless of their income) to encourage us to 'go forth and procreate'.

I don't know that America is a primary destination for Aussies to look for work - although, I'm sure plenty do. But the US isn't very agreeable when it comes to giving out work visas to Australians. (We're not too keen on giving them to American's, either. Not sure where all this hostility is coming from!)Traditionally, Aussies head to the UK and Ireland, where work visas are much easier for us to obtain and the pound is worth so much more than our dollar. We can go to NZ without visas at all, which some people take advantage of for a change of scenery, but their dollar is worth less than ours, so it's not much of a money spinner.

It would be interesting to find out the age bracket that those half a million Aussies visiting the US fit into. With the first stages of the baby boomers' retirements already well underway, we've seen the rise of what we call the 'Grey Nomads' - retirees who sell up, buy a caravan or mobile home and just travel around Australia, indefinitely. Literally thousands of them. A significant number are also travelling overseas. I wouldn't be surprised if they account for a very large percentage of your Aussie visitors.
Nationalism and Patriotism are two different things thinking you are better than someone because you come from country a and being proud of country a are two different things. There was some nationalistic feeling in the USA post 911, a lot of that has disappeared with the Iraq debacle.

I had a friend in Melbourne who was offered a job in Northern England, he turned it down flat, why? Despite the pound being worth more, the cost of living in the UK is absolutely expensive. He found its better just to visit Europe than to live there forever.

As far as Americans having trouble getting permits for Australia, this is true, because the education systems are somewhat different, for example a medical degree in Australia is a Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery degree whereas in the USA it is a Doctor of Medicine. Americans usually have few problems immigrating to Canada. I immigrated to Australia seven years ago and back then it was not difficult. Now a US citizen would probably need to have an Australian qualification or be a Nurse, Doctor to get in.

Mmbmmb

07-16-07, 12:44

DJ FourMoney,

I’m sorry I answer you so late but I think that slowly I become workaholic and I have no time for anything else.

My post was a little ironical too. I know that Ukrainian girls are pretty and it’s easy to fall in love with them but I’m sure you wouldn’t discriminate any nationality ;-)
The problem is you won’t find your princess picking up girls who admire only Benjamin Franklin or Ulysses Grant from among all Americans. Anyway as I wrote before don’t lose your faith :-)

From time to time I read your posts and I’m really interested if European women will be “better” for you then American ones. I guess that time will show everything.
Now I can tell you that Polish (and not only Polish) girls aren’t “giving up for free”.
You are daydreaming if you think that way :-)

But seriously DJ, I was thinking about problems you have to face ( hmm as a typical? AM) and I got to a conclusion that you look for nonexistent ideal. We wrote here about all the changes which took place in the modern culture etc and nobody can’t turn back time but sometimes I think that people are simply selfish and that’s the main problem here. The more I talk to people the more I see this attitude (that what’s the most important in the world is me, me and one more time me and my problems).

It’s interesting what you wrote in the thread about Kiev that

“ I wouldn't be surprised if this venture costed you several thousands of dollars. For an amount like that I would seriously consider staying home or using FKK services in Germany where you can find Ukrainian, Russian, Romainan and Polish girls already working in these places for 50 Euro for 30 mins

To tell the truth before I read ISG I didn’t even know that something like these German clubs exist but it’s not the point. What’s interesting that in these clubs you can buy sex with beautiful, young women who would do everything what you dream about for 100 euro. It’s not a lot of money. I’m a little surprised that you still want to look for your princess. Ideal people don’t exist and maybe she won’t be so “easygoing” as the girls in the clubs. I mean that going to these places you just pay and you don’t care about anything. You can kiss with a blond Czech girl and after to have sex with brunette from Brazil. Do you know what I mean? You haven’t to strive for anything, you just pay. When you have a wife you have to reckon with her problems. If you quarrel with her, next day you will have to buy flowers and to assure that she’s the love of your life. If you go to the club and you don’t like the girl you just take another one.
The relationships are expensive and demanding. I don’t talk only about money. I also buy my boyfriend different presents e.g. a golden cross. But buying it I was thinking about a charm which could protect him not about how much money it costs. I invest not only dollars but also feelings in my relationship. I really don’t care of all the stuff I gave him. They were presents which showed him my care and love and I won’t take them to the grave with myself so why should I care about these things? It really hurts when you trusted/ loved someone and this person will treat you as a disposable thing.

Well, once I asked you to describe what you understand under the word “love” but any of you didn’t do this. So DJ, what are you looking for? You go to all these places and I’m sure it gives you new, exciting experience but do you really want to find love in Kiev during weekly holidays? In FKK I think you won’t find your princess too.

BTW, I can tell you that online sucks. If you have no choice it’s better then nothing but it won’t replace daily contact. I tried it and I’m disappointed. I didn’t stop to love this person but internet it’s a solution only for a short period of time.

Maybe if I can help you somehow I’ll write what I think writing about love.
It’s when
- the beloved person is also your best-friend who will support you even if you’re poor, ill, unemployed etc.
-someone cares about your problems and tries to solve them with you
-someone isn’t selfish and thinks: our problems, family, money, work etc, not MY…..
- someone works on the relationship, thinks how to improve it, not only during the first year of it
- people also enjoy sex in their relationship. Sex is normal and very important part of relationship but it isn’t its basis
- people show each other tenderness, care etc
Generally theory about plants-people is still actual.

I know that it’s not perfect description if such description exists at all. It’s similar to the situation when you want to describe colors to a blind person.
DJ, I want to say that if you decide for serious relationship you have to realize that the phase of passion will pass soon. I mean that one day your beautiful wife can fart at bed and you will leave your dirty socks at a chair. Sorry if it’s not romantic but this is normal life. Any woman can’t be Barbie doll forever even if she’s a beautiful Ukrainian girl. I’m also sure that even handsome Pierce Brosnan belches from time to time and he doesn’t look so elegant at these moments.
If you think that somewhere there is a woman who will be so hot and kinky as the girls in FKK but on the other hand she would be innocent, young, a little submissive and a little independent, who would love to have children and to prepare food for the family all day long (did I forget something? :-)), you can be disappointed not only of Ukraine but also of Poland, Germany, Italy, Kazakhstan, China and so on.

Jelly Donut,

You write about millionaires and it’s only small % of society. You are right that one hasn’t to be well-educated in order to make money in the United States. It’s one of the wealthiest country in the world and working physically you still can buy a lot of goods but we can’t know what will be in the future. Maybe when eg Chinese people get rich (= they also want to have big cars, air condition at home etc) the prices of oil, gas, energy will increase. Will an average construction worker be able to maintain the same standard of living? Someone with knowledge and practical skills will demand more money for their service then unqualified worker. A propos doctors, once I went to a public hospital in Poland because I had to see a general practitioner. They said that I can go to the only one doctor or to wait about 2 weeks for a visit to a doctor I saw last time. I said that I need to see a doctor now so I can go to see this guy. It doesn’t matter for me, I won’t wait 2 weeks. It turned out that the doctor was Tunisian and even if he was nice and he tried to help me I had impression that he didn’t understand to the end what I said to him in Polish. So I said to myself that I won’t use public health service but the private sector is expensive. On the other hand I prefer to pay more money and be sure that diagnosis is proper then to spend much more money later for the reason of complications. Unluckily not all Polish people have access and possibility to use private health service.
You wrote

They are not rich, but they can generate a lot of income, generating income is not the same thing as building wealth

Yes, it’s not the same though how do you want to build wealth if you can’t generate income? Besides if the cardiologist you know have lifestyles that may discourage savings/investing in favor of consuming it’s a question of their character. I don’t see the connection between the education and the snobbery. Maybe snobbery isn’t the best word here. It’s a question of priority. Some people prefer to have a big, expensive wedding, the others would prefer to have a modest ceremony and to go to Brazil for honeymoon. Is it wrong if you have money for it? I think that money isn’t the aim of life, it’s only the mean which let to realize the life’s aims.
Of course there is a problem if you haven’t any discipline but it’s still about someone’s character and I don’t see the connection with the education.
Writing the points in my last thread I meant that a hard working, intelligent person with university degree always has better chances to achieve success then unskilled immigrant who doesn’t speak the local language.
If you have a girlfriend who keeps you from spending money it’s great but I don’t think she could do anything if you hadn’t the financial discipline. And if we talk about the wives who like spending too much money we had another saying in Poland “You saw what you took so don’t complain now” ;-)

Opebo

07-16-07, 17:13

...they say that the 30s were the WORST years NYC ever saw, much worse than all the mayhem of the 60s 70s and 80s.

NYC of the 60s, 70s, and 80s was far better than present day NYC, Bango. It had more, better, and cheaper hookers. Gulianai ruined the city (in fairness every american city was ruined between 1980 and 2000).

CBGBConnisur

07-16-07, 18:05

It is hard to have a good quality of life in a large US city, in fact.... unless you are ultra rich, forget about it. Most American cities have went downhill for a number of reasons, mainly the fact that the gap between haves and have nots has become too wide. The same scenario is playing itself out around the world.

There are still many places in America where one could have a good life, I have a cousin who grew up in the South and seems to live quite well on a moderate income, gets plenty of women, even banged a Miss America contestant. There are fewer distractions in smaller places, so women behave differently. I traveled a few times to a small town in Georgia, and saw a huge difference in how women behave compared to the big cities.

George90

07-16-07, 21:11

There are still many places in America where one could have a good life, I have a cousin who grew up in the South and seems to live quite well on a moderate income, gets plenty of women, even banged a Miss America contestant. There are fewer distractions in smaller places, so women behave differently. I traveled a few times to a small town in Georgia, and saw a huge difference in how women behave compared to the big cities.

While that is very true, I am not convinced one is able to regularly bang women of the caliber of Miss America contestants. I have read the posts of men who live in rural counties. They are farmers. They say that if a man doesn't marry by 18 or 19, he may never get married at all! The women who are marriage material either leave town and go to college in big city or marry right out of high school. The rest aren't marriage material. They are either obese, crazy, dumb, or all three. One guy said that an average looking women from a large city could be the prettiest women in 4 or 5 rural counties. What he described made it understandable why a man's sister or cousin would start to look good if he was drunk.

CBGBConnisur

07-16-07, 21:23

Well you can always import if you know what I mean. I think keeping a woman from a foreign country in a small town would be better than a big city, she would always feel a bit foreign.

Rock Dog

07-17-07, 01:22

Keep her in a small town?

Well that would partly depend on what she was used to back home. My wife lived in a city where there are about 6 million people. Now we live in a Canadian city with maybe 700,000 tops. She went with me to visit my old home town (pop 40,000) and told me she was glad we didn't have to live there.

Why? Because it would have been totally boring. Even where we are right now, the night life doesn't compare. Sure the roads are better and people drive nicer cars. But there's a lot more to living and being happy than these material things.

Something to think about for those planning to "import".

Rock

Sasha Coffee

07-17-07, 04:21

I have spent the last 4 months moving from Christchurch New Zealand, pop 300,000 to a little town in Australia pop 60,000. Between moving country I took a tour (work related) through the mid west of America. Now I have to say I think women are the same the world over. I think quality of life is not achieved in either a big city or a small city but in a inner peace and happiness. Theres just more to do in a big city, not a bad thing either. Smaller cities offer a different entertainment and it will mainly be around your friendship circle more than clubs and pubs.

They want Money, security etc. Its the same things our mothers wanted (although granted they didn't have the job opportunities we have now) its the same thing our grandmothers wanted.

Sadly for you men I can't see this changing for a while. When it does and you men can openly date only wealthy women you will know that equality has been reached.

This basic need women have for financial security is based on the fact that we might have to give up our career to have children and stay at home for a few years (choices ofcourse). While we are staying at home, doing the taxi duty to school and sports etc we want to know that the man that we have given up our career for can support us. I know it might be wrong to think like that but if a woman is honest that is how they think. Who knows why I doubt we even know ourselves.

As for the car issue. Cars are a sign of wealth, generally you can sum up how much a man or woman earns by the car they drive. Women are not the only ones to do this, men do it to each other as well. Its just a pity that we all forget that most people don't own the car they drive but are working their backsides off to make the payments and insurance.

Really wealth is health and not financial. Its happiness and honesty and dating someone that you are comfortable with. In the end if you don't want the cost of the date and divorce find a good hooker. It will probably be cheaper to see her once a week than pay for the divorce.

Bango Cheito

07-17-07, 04:34

CB I think your theory is half-baked.

You know what would most likely happen in that situation? The woman would have a breakdown and pack her bags and head straight fucking back where she came from!

Most women who come here for marriage SEVERELY miss their own countries, and it's a huge sacrifice for them to come here. People have this motherfucking arrogant attitude that they are doing these girls a FAVOR by taking them away.

CBGBConnisur

07-17-07, 20:27

Well it is better that she likes you for you and not that she is in a desperate situation and looking to escape. The lady I met is not desperate, she seems to live well but not luxuriously, has an ok job and her own apartment, but gets bored and thinks I entertain her well. Lets see how long this lasts, regardless, in this new century women are all going to be the same. If you really want loyal company, get a puppy.

Girls in other countries have lower standards, but they have a similar logic as AWs, they want a guy that can take care of them. The girl I met, her father is a drunk alcholic and she says most of the men in her country are like that. So me who is not a drunk and a wife beater, I am a something different to her.

Who knows if you are doing them a favor, in some circumstances, if you take them in, and take care of them, yes. If you plan to make them your servant, no.

DJ FourMoney

07-17-07, 22:42

Mmbmmb -

That is the typical double standard...

If I use Sex Services where it is legal, I must not be serious about a long term relationship.

So as I am searching for my beloved, I need to go without any???

That just doesn't make any sense...

I went to Kiev to meet the previously mentioned and didn't use any services though I thought about it seriously when I was at River Palace. I don't believe I'll be able to ever pull a woman that looked like the one I pulled under normal circumstances and I didn't "take out" I left her there.

I had a feeling the "Professional Clubber" was a Part-timer and when she confirmed what I had thought was the case, I declined her offer.

So no I wasn't a Sex Tourist in Kiev... Neither was I in Germany, even though I used it, its because it was:

a) Local (Frankfurt RLD)
b) inexpensive by American standards

And I only used it when my German contacts all went sour.

So I spent the last 15 days of my trip to build a new roster, get laid and go with my last trump card, which was Kiev oddly enough.

Success after 3 days and I have it on video if your curious... ;)

What I want is not unreasonable at all and very possible. Without knowing me on a personal level maybe I have a hard time trying to convince you that my reasons are sincere.

I like the Kiev woman, I just feel I can do a bit better, so my search continues.

You must like replying to my post, I thought you had a boyfriend???

Jelly Donut

07-17-07, 23:55

Yes, it’s not the same though how do you want to build wealth if you can’t generate income? Besides if the cardiologist you know have lifestyles that may discourage savings/investing in favor of consuming it’s a question of their character.

You need to be able to generate some income. The main problem for people in the United States is that they tend to spend all (or even more) than what they earn. So, if you earn a lot you spend a lot. If you earn more, you spend more. There's no savings to fall back on; no investments generating income.

I'm not sure exactly what you are thinking when you are talking about the "character" of these buddy doctors. These folks are good people. If they don't have much financial discipline, well, not a lot of Americans do. Most people adopt financial discipline because circumstances demand it and give it up when it's not required.

CBGBConnisur

07-18-07, 00:04

Its not easy to make money anywhere on the planet, everywhere you go its the same. The girl I met thought she was going to live real well in Germany and found out the hard truth. She just squeaks by, anything she earns gets spent very quickly.

Doctors in the US earn big money, if I am not mistaken the average PCP can make over 200K a year, several times the average salary of an American worker. Of course it would be easy for them to save with their high earnings, but for the average person, this does not work.

Rock Dog

07-18-07, 02:44

Anybody can end up with lot's of money if they really want it. It's a matter of the choices they make in life and what kind of plans they have. Get rich quick is simply not realistic for 98% of all people.

But if you were 20 yrs old (male or female) and you wanted to be well-off by sometime in your 40's..... that's not impossible at all. Go get educated, work steady, leave off on expensive houses and cars, and don't get married. You'll be 45 years old and able to consider retirement in the country of your choice.

Wanna drive a fancy newer car all the time? OK fine, but is it worth having if it means you're putting off your retirement for an extra 5 years? Maybe not... but it's a choice. Wanna get a big show home? Go for it..... cost 10 years minimum. Wanna get married and have kids? You'll be paying for that one way or another until the day you die.

People are always bitching and whining about how they "can't get ahead". Maybe they could get ahead if they didn't keep putting themselves in the hole all the time with the choices they make.

Oh, and please don't anybody try telling me how home ownership is such a great investment. It's not. Property taxes, interest charges on the mortgage, utilities and insurance will (over the long run) cost you way more than you'll ever make from increased property value.
Rock

Capt Ajax

07-18-07, 03:23

Doctors in the US earn big money, if I am not mistaken the average PCP can make over 200K a year, several times the average salary of an American worker. Of course it would be easy for them to save with their high earnings, but for the average person, this does not work.

It's getting more difficult for Doctors to make the big $$$$$ because their Medical malpractice insurance rates are so high and also having to deal with the insurance paper work of their patients. It's not a life I envy at all. In the old days it was pretty easy for them to make the big $$$$ but not any more.

Paddy

07-18-07, 04:48

Astor Bryan,

Yes, you are correct in reference to malpractice insurance. It's a killer.

What's even worse are the HMO's and their networks. If you want to be in the HMO network, you have to take their "lowball" fees and write everything else off. A doc in America could make great money prior to the HMO movement but those were the good old days.

So, if you factor in malpractice insurance, HMO lowballing, student loans, overhead, federal tax, state tax and private employment tax, etc., these guys are facing major league issues.

Paddy

Bango Cheito

07-18-07, 07:35

Rock, you gotta remember, you live in one of the WORST places on the globe to invest in real estate.

My parents just barely broke even three times in the past couple decades on houses, not even counting for inflation :P

On the other hand, here in the Bronx I just about doubled the money I put into a house in just over 3 years!

And the place we are buying in Colombia has gone up 25% just in 6 months!

Leeuwen

07-18-07, 10:55

Its not easy to make money anywhere on the planet, everywhere you go its the same. The girl I met thought she was going to live real well in Germany and found out the hard truth. She just squeaks by, anything she earns gets spent very quickly.

Ok, so you meet (obviously) poor immigrants in Germany and then keep posting about German girls not being able to afford a car, among others?
Your pseudo analysis is a joke. Dude, you know nothing about Germany and Germans, so save the bandwidth, ok?

CBGBConnisur

07-18-07, 12:10

Ok, so you meet (obviously) poor immigrants in Germany and then keep posting about German girls not being able to afford a car, among others?
Your pseudo analysis is a joke. Dude, you know nothing about Germany and Germans, so save the bandwidth, ok?
It depends upon the type of the car, most European cars tend to be small economy sized models. I did not think the girl I met was poor she seemed to live
ok. 200K plus a year is a pretty good physician income a lot more than most European countries, including Germany, oh fyi the lady who rented me my apartment just happens to be a German physician, she rents places to make extra cash. Oh and another thing, I actually have several doctors in my family, and I really don't think they are suffering financially, of course HMOs and malpractice costs are hitting them but they are still earning well.

There is a flood of EE women in Western Europe, no big surprise, people go where they perceive there is money but Europe is still anti immigrant and even a blonde EE has difficulty integrating into Western European countries. I have seen EE women in Hong Kong and Dubai as well, it won't surprise me to see more white faces in Asia in the coming years.

Leeuwen, I do know that Germans tend to be among the most miserable people on Earth. Having spent an extended period of time there I would not want to live in Germany.

Leeuwen

07-18-07, 13:02

Alright, just don't assume I ever questioned income of American MDs, because I didn't.

Investing in properties and renting apartments is quite a big business over here. You still own your apartment, its value increases every year, plus you make money out of it.
Also our EE cousins noticed this business can provide a well needed income. What is really annoying, is that they charge more or less WE rates for a rat hole you wouldn't pay even fraction of what they ask for.

For instance, an apartment in Minsk (Belorus) costs on average 50 euro a day. Say the owner gets 7 booked nights. That makes 350 euro. Compare it to average monthly salary there, which is 200-250 euro. Not bad, huh?

Regarding Germans - Yes, not the most beloved people on planet Earth, but who cares? Certainly not Germans.

Mmbmmb

07-18-07, 13:51

Dj FourMoney,

That is the typical double standard.

If I use Sex Services where it is legal, I must not be serious about a long term relationship.

So as I am searching for my beloved, I need to go without any?

That just doesn't make any sense. Double standard? Hmmm, I only asked how do you want to find love going to FFK or River Palace?

Any what? Sex? Of course you can go and look for it. And it doesn’t matter if it’s legal or not. I think you could do the same in Kiev, Poland, USA or Norway. In my country it isn’t legal but I didn’t hear that someone went to jail because he slept with a prostitute

So no I wasn't a Sex Tourist in Kiev. Neither was I in Germany, even though I used it, its because it was:

A) Local (Frankfurt RLD)

Be) inexpensive by American standards

And I only used it when my German contacts all went sour.

So I spent the last 15 days of my trip to build a new roster, get laid and go with my last trump card, which was Kiev oddly enough.

Success after 3 days and I have it on video if your curious. DJ, imagine that an American guy is going to Thailand. He wants to relax on the beach and to meet pretty girls what doesn’t mean that he came there as a sex tourist. During his stay he meets only hookers or hhmm let’s say "damaged" women. He sees that the local girls are hot and so inexpensive by American standard and because he’s already in Thailand why shouldn’t he have some fun? How do you think, how local people would call such holidays if not sex tourism?

But the name you call it isn't really important.
So I spent the last 15 days of my trip to build a new roster, get laid and go with my last trump card, which was Kiev oddly enough.

Success after 3 days and I have it on video if your curious.

What I want is not unreasonable at all and very possible. Without knowing me on a personal level maybe I have a hard time trying to convince you that my reasons are sincere.

I like the Kiev woman, I just feel I can do a bit better, so my search continues. You must like replying to my post, I thought you had a boyfriend? No DJ, I’m not so curious though I’m sure the video is interesting:.)

And yes, I have a boyfriend, a wonderful man, but it doesn’t change the fact that I can like you. And I like you because I really believe that, even without knowing you on personal level, your reasons are sincere. And as the only one man you decided to stop complaining and to check by yourself if Europe is a paradise full of decent women.

I should apologize you for my post from 6th July. It was not only ironical but also malicious. I shouldn’t write it. I did it maybe because lately, more and more, I become cynical. I’m sorry.

You know DJ, I write what I think because I know we’ll never meet in the real life and nobody will sue me, you, Jelly Donut or anyone else on this forum for what we write. I think it’s sick if a man approaches woman, he tells her that she’s beautiful and after he’s arrested and accused of harassment. And as we know it can happen, thanks the post of Super Brko. If people can’t talk to each other anymore we’ll come one day to a situation that we’ll be afraid to answer the question "what time is it? " because the personal dignity of someone can be destroyed by the tone of our voice or the face expression. Nobody would like to pay 10 000 $ for it. Do you know what I mean?

And if we can talk sincerely and because men aren't women I’ll write you why young women (not only American) don’t want to have family nowadays. The answer is simple: because it’s fucking unprofitable.

We live in a world where money is nearly a deity and people care only of themselves. I live in Poland so let my country be an example but I don’t think that the situation in USA is so much different.

1)When a girl graduate university she‘ll look for a good job. The employers don’t look for a young girl who can have babies soon (= who will go to a maternity leave, take days-off because the children are I'll, can’t stay longer at work etc)

2)The cost of raising a child is very high. The state doesn’t help. The public health service and schools are mostly shitty. The people I know pay a lot of money not only for private pediatricians but also private tutors, sport classes and so on. Why should you spend your money on child if you could go for holidays in Brazil or to buy a new Lexus? 3)Family needs time. How will you find it if you work 10-12h a day? If you want to earn decent money 10-12 h day of work is normal. In Poland additionally the society is still conservative. Women should take care of house and children. Young girls don’t want anymore to have 2 jobs, at home and outside it.

4)When you have a child, for at least the first 3 years of its life it needs intense care of mother. It’s 3 years when you shouldn’t work and if you don’t work you have no income. Often you don’t pay a fee for your retirement and you depend on the husband’s income. It isn’t comfortable situation when you ask someone else for money. You also waste years which you could use to gain more work experiences, additional education etc

5)Raising children and caring about the house a lot of women don’t work. What will happen if a husband dies or wants a divorce. Suddenly you’re in situation when you have not only to take care of children and house but you think where to find good job, having no work experiences and qualifications because through 10 years you was only a cleaning lady, a cook and a nanny.

6)Being pregnant means often to put on weight, stretch marks, cellulite and other things which won’t help you to feel like Pam Andreson. In the world where appearance is as much important as money you prefer to adopt a child from Africa, Asia or South America. You not only will save you silhouette but also you’ll show your friends how wonderful heart you have. And what’s more important you can adopt a child even when you’re 40, giving birth to your own one is risky at this age.

7)Having family you have to agree for compromises. If you’re single you can do what you want. Besides being a single isn’t a social stigma anymore. It’s even in fashion. There are holidays for singles, clubs for singles, cafés for singles and soon there will be bank accounts, credits, cars, stores etc for singles. When you have no family it doesn’t mean that you’re sitting at home alone watching TV.

Now family is expensive and demanding duty for the rest of your life, especially for a woman. Who would like to decide for it? The argument that you’ll have care at old age is a bullshit. When you are 70 your children have their own family, problems and jobs. Now people have no opportunities to take care of their parents because they work and sometimes live in the other part of the country. And nobody won’t decide to give up a job because he/she won’t be able to pay for eg mother’s medicines. Child is an luxury good now, not a cheap worker and help at home as it was in the past when we talk about developed countries.

And does one really need a husband now? When you have a husband you have to take care about him, support him, help him with his problems etc. Isn’t it unnecessary problem? Especially if in 15-20 years he will want to replace you by "a new model". You can have sex with your acquaintance, eventually to simply pay for it. I’ve heard that Egypt or Tunisia are perfect places for sex tourism for women. You can find there cheap, exotic, handsome boys and nobody will know what you were doing during holidays. And the boys don’t care if you’re 50 or 60 and how you look.

I started to think that we live in unfair world where people are disposable thing and all discussion here is "art for art" as we say in Poland. But maybe I became really cynical.

It’s interesting what Jelly Donut wrote:

You need to be able to generate some income. The main problem for people in the United States is that they tend to spend all (or even more) than what they earn. So, if you earn a lot you spend a lot. If you earn more, you spend more. There's no savings to fall back on; no investments generating income. I'm not sure exactly what you are thinking when you are talking about the "character" of these buddy doctors. These folks are good people. If they don't have much financial discipline, well, not a lot of Americans do. Most people adopt financial discipline because circumstances demand it and give it up when it's not requiredWriting about character I meant that it doesn’t matter if you’re a doctor, a worker constructor or a lawyer. The amount of money you spend has nothing to do with someone’s education. It depends how strong is someone’s character, if this person can say to oneself " I can live without it. I prefer to drive old Ford but to save money and to invest it at home or something else". I was writing about a character which help you to bear hardships of life. JD is right. A lot of people in developed countries have so good conditions of life that they can’t imagine their grandparents lived in the other way. I remember how my grandparent told me about his childhood during the II World War and when he was finding dead bodies in the forest. He also told me that even before the war education was so expensive that most people finished only primary school and they hadn’t washing machines, cars or microwaves. Will the tough circumstances force people to the discipline (not only financial)? I remember the Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana and the news that someone killed his sister because she didn’t want to share the last box of cereals with him so I wouldn’t want to convince myself about it.

CBGBConnisur

07-18-07, 18:22

I never said the girl I met was poor or unemployed, she happens to work six days a week, and has been doing so for the last few years in various jobs, she is disappointed because she has university degree but is not employed in her field of interest, nothing glamorous but enough to live reasonably well. Still she feels very much isolated as a foreigner in Germany, she finds it hard to make friends, despite the fact that she could pass for a German with a white face and blonde hair blue eyes.

Bango, I wasn't going to take her back to the US, I was thinking Australia where I have been a permanent resident for the last seven years, a country with the best beaches on the planet, 300 days of sunshine, a lower cost of living than Western Europe or the US, etc..

I don't recall saying that German girls were poor or could not afford a car.

Capt Ajax

07-18-07, 20:05

Leeuwen, I do know that Germans tend to be among the most miserable people on Earth. Having spent an extended period of time there I would not want to live in Germany.

How so CBGB?? Please explain.

CBGBConnisur

07-18-07, 20:42

how so cbgb?? please explain.

talk to them, the vast majority are unhappy. it is very well known that germans
are among the most unhappy people in the world along with the french. i have met unhappy americans and australians but they tend to be far fewer. the ukrainian girl i met has lived there for five years and can tell you some stories. southern europeans tend to be more upbeat about life.

on another front, idea the european union as we know it today was actually planned by adolf hitler and the nazis. really scary shit. as expected there will be more political chaos around the world speeding up the asian century that is coming.

Leeuwen

07-19-07, 00:01

talk to them, the vast majority are unhappy. it is very well known that germans
are among the most unhappy people in the world along with the french. i have met unhappy americans and australians but they tend to be far fewer. the ukrainian girl i met has lived there for five years and can tell you some stories. southern europeans tend to be more upbeat about life.
germans along with french among the most unhappy people in the world? "it is very well known"? says who? foxnews? quick search on the net and guess what i found.

out if 178 countries in world happiness index (http://www.neweconomics.org/gen/uploads/dl44k145g5scuy453044gqbu11072006194758.pdf) (quite ambitious document) following contenders are positioned as:

2. colombia
5. panama
6. cuba
--------------------
81. germany
129. france
139. australia
150. united states of america
174. ukraine

so you were wrong again, but let's agree on you having highly subjective views and opinions.

life of an immigrant involves many hurdles, and germany is no exception. however everybody is free to leave.

on another front, idea the european union as we know it today was actually planned by adolf hitler and the nazis. really scary shit. as expected there will be more political chaos around the world speeding up the asian century that is coming.
right-wing fanatics "over there" would jump for joy if eu suddently was hit by a metorite or worse, but to trace birth of eu to adolf hitler...? man, you must know something rest of the world obviously has missed. it seems far too late to give you history lessons, but if there is any reliable source supporting your statement, maybe you can be so kind and provide a link, ok?

where does this fear of nazis, asia (china, india?) come from? weakness?

Bango Cheito

07-19-07, 03:03

This is kind of a silly discussion.

The #1 country in that survey, for some reason you didn't include it, is NIGERIA!

Now Nigeria is DEFINITELY a place people miss when they move away and want to go back there, and there is definitely a lot people like about that place (believe it or not it's true), but there's also a great deal of suffering mixed in with that happiness...

One could formulate the theory that both extremes tend to complement each other, that is in places where there is a lot of suffering there tends to be a lot of exuberance on the other end of things to make up for it, whereas places in the middle tend to be just 'grey' but at the bottom of that list are many EE countries where there is definitely lots of mass suffering as well, and people are miserable according to the survey and suicide rates are high.

In the end it's a meaningless statistic at best IMO. You'll be EXTREMELY happy in Colombia if you are an immigrant who bought a house, rode the real estate wave up and sold at a healthy profit and are repatriating with all that money, you'll be in the depths of misery if you get embroiled with organized crime down there or if you are one of the few million displaced people. Most people are going to be somewhere in the middle obviously.

What should matter is where and how YOU are going to be happy YOURSELF.

Edit: I was thinking of a different survey with different criteria, where Colombia IS still #2 and Nigeria is #1. I just went through the whole pdf. Interesting but it still doesn't sell to me :P

CBGBConnisur

07-19-07, 13:38

Germans along with French among the most unhappy people in the world? "It is very well known"? Says who? FoxNews? Quick search on the net and guess what I found.

Out if 178 countries in world happiness index (http://www.neweconomics.org/gen/uploads/dl44k145g5scuy453044gqbu11072006194758.pdf) (quite ambitious document) following contenders are positioned as:

2. Colombia
5. Panama
6. Cuba
--------------------
81. Germany
129. France
139. Australia
150. United States of America
174. Ukraine

So you were wrong again, but let's agree on you having highly subjective views and opinions.

Life of an immigrant involves many hurdles, and Germany is no exception. However everybody is free to leave.

Right-wing fanatics "over there" would jump for joy if EU suddently was hit by a metorite or worse, but to trace birth of EU to Adolf Hitler...? Man, you must know something rest of the world obviously has missed. It seems far too late to give you history lessons, but if there is any reliable source supporting your statement, maybe you can be so kind and provide a link, ok?

Where does this fear of Nazis, Asia (China, India?) come from? Weakness?
Kind of strange that a Dutchman would be offended by myself insulting Germans. Europe being linked by a single currency was planned by the Nazis themselves, although the EU today is much different, some ideas were planned by the Third Reich. Isn't it convenient how Germany is now the dominant European nation?

George90

07-19-07, 17:07

Europe being linked by a single currency was planned by the Nazis themselves, although the EU today is much different, some ideas were planned by the Third Reich. Isn't it convenient how Germany is now the dominant European nation?

Even though this is WAY off topic, I feel compelled to support Leeuwen and agree that the notion of the Nazis originating the idea of a unified Europe is absolutely ludicrous.

Someone or another has been trying to unify Europe for over 2,000 years! Take your pick of the Roman Caesars, the Mongols, the Huns, the Catholic Church, British monarchs, French monarchs, Russian Tsars, Napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm and WWI.

You give too much credit to the Nazis, CBGB. Let's get back to discussing how to get more foreign women into our (sex) lives.

CBGBConnisur

07-19-07, 17:49

Fair enough, back to topic. I think many women in other Western countries are not that much better than your average AW. In fact during my recent trip to Germany the best women I found were always immigrants from Eastern Europe and Russia. This is a similar pattern I see in the US and other wealthy countries, the women who come from immigrant groups tend to be different from those born in a Western nation. I am beginning to take a strong liking for Russian and Ukrainian women over many other nationalities, most seem to come from relatively modest backgrounds and don't seem to have the egos of their western counterparts. Its not they never change but for me I kind of feel sorry for these women, obviously they seem to have more modest expectations than most of your typical females from the West.

Rock Dog

07-20-07, 03:13

Doesn't this discussion tend to go around on a circular path?

It starts with something like: AWs suck, crappy attitude, they're fat and greedy. Then someone else says how women from such and such an area are so much better...... with the best women being either Latinas or Eatern Euro women (ie. Ukrainian or Russian).

After that, someone (usually with a great deal of actual experience) comes along and says "Watch out for those ones, they can be a real handful!" Finally, we get a story about the guy who married one and guess what, she takes off, or fucks him over one way or another.

You just can't go believing in generalizations or stereotypes about anybody from anywhere. Maybe, on some kind of statistical overall basis, Russian/Ukrainian women are better than our local girls. But you aren't dealing with them on that kind of basis. You're dealing with the ones you meet. On an individual basis, I'll bet there's some real rotten apples out there.

I'm not just talking out of my ass either. I've heard firsthand stories from guys who hooked up with these women. They aren't perfect little angels..... not by a long shot! You think some hot little 21 yr old really prefers to get married to some middle-aged guy from another country? Especially when it's a guy who can't even speak 6 words of her own language? Naw man, she's looking at that guy as her ticket to a better situation.

Are there exceptions to this? Sure, there always are..... but what are the odds that you're gonna pick the one good one out of ten gold-diggers? Now if you're talking about pay for play instead of marriage, that's a whole different game. :D

Rock

ps. check out the pic..... anyone seriously think this girl is gonna stay with this guy?

Rock Dog

07-20-07, 03:20

Any of you guys ever have a really good looking girlfriend/significant other who is absolutely attractive..... and then you see some other woman who isn't nearly as nice as the one you're with, but you just want to do her anyways?

Today is a good example. I had this girl come in to where I work. She's maybe mid-twenties, single mom with a kid. Her face is average at best. Her tits are OK, but she has a nice slim ass and some pretty decent legs. Damn it, the only thing I could think about was how I'd love to shove it into her... and she's not even close to being as nice-looking as my wife.

I get this all the time. Some so-so looking women and I just want to do them all! Is it just me, or do you guys know what I'm talking about?

Rock

Bango Cheito

07-20-07, 04:48

For me it's just a matter of getting over the bar.

On some Colombian forums they argue for ages about which city really has the best looking women, I don't think it matters that much. Honestly as long as she's not a troll, emaciated, or morbidly obese and has nice healthy-looking skin and good teeth I can forgive just about anything else physically. And that goes ESPECIALLY for p4p. The good looking girls are always the worst performers, the average ones will knock your fucking socks off!

Capt Ajax

07-20-07, 13:51

Any of you guys ever have a really good looking girlfriend/significant other who is absolutely attractive..... and then you see some other woman who isn't nearly as nice as the one you're with, but you just want to do her anyways?

she's not even close to being as nice-looking as my wife. Rock

She must be a trophy wife. You have a good looking wife at home and yet you are out trolling for sex w/unattractive women. The only way I would be out looking for pussy, if I had a pretty wife, is if I was getting "ANY' at home. Unfortunately most American "pretty women" are so crappy at sex that I avoid them like the plague.

Jelly Donut

07-20-07, 14:48

Too funny about the Colombian women. Some girls from Medellin will straight-up tell you "All the girls in Bogota are ugly". You half expect them to pull out some publications from the American Association for the Advancement of Science backing up the statement.

RD. I think that's normal guy behavior. The worst is when the girl you want is your girlfriend's sister.

Got to love a website called "Simply Weddings" which features an article on "Top 10 Most Expensive Celebrity Divorces". Irony, insight and the American Woman...

http://www.simplyweddings.com/content.asp?contentid=2419

Rock Dog

07-20-07, 15:54

You have a good looking wife at home and yet you are out trolling for sex w/unattractive women.

No man, you misunderstood. I'm not out there trolling for these girls. This girl turns me on in a whole different kind of way, but I've never made any kind of moves on her. I've taken a pretty good look at her ass when nobody's looking but that's it.

As for the part about trophy wife..... you betcha! And that ties in with what I was asking earlier. A guy gets the best looking woman he can posibly get, so you'd think that other women would no longer hold any interest for him. Particularly if they were just average looking. My point is that this isn't the case.

It seems like there is no one truly perfect woman..... maybe the only way a man can ever be 100% satisfied is to have a huge harem where he can have endless sexual variety. Next best thing? Termas, MPs and FKK clubs I guess.

Rock

Bango Cheito

07-20-07, 18:52

Yeah, but it's a real stupid assertion considering that there are like a million people born in and around Medellin now living in Bogota.

To tell the truth, it really must suck ass being a woman. If you are in that small percentage people consider attractive you get a GLUT of attention, like guys hanging off your tits 10 times a day or more!! If you're out of that little circle, you are chopped liver.

I'd say women in the DR, Brazil, or Colombia are on average EXTREMELY attractive by US or Canadian standards. This is probably part of the extreme attraction for guys, is that they can get a girl that won't get the time of day over there but in THEIR eyes she's considered a stunner.

And TBH most of that "extra" attractiveness just comes down to how they dress, how they do their hair and makeup, and how they present themselves. Although some of it also has to do with the abysmal diet we have in North America.

CBGBConnisur

07-20-07, 19:30

That Asshole

07-21-07, 08:07

Chocha Monger

07-21-07, 17:27

HELEN BRANSWELL AND SHERYL UBELACKER
Canadian Press
August 13, 2006 at 9:13 PM EDT

TORONTO — The world's richest man says that the key to stemming the epidemic of HIV-AIDS is getting more power — economic, sexual and political — in the hands of women.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060813.waidsnewopen0813/BNStory/Front/home
------------------------------------------------------------

well done. long awaited development. TA
That is quite an interesting point of view for a man whose company is well known to use uncompetitive business practices to make unfair profits and has been the subject of much antitrust litigation. What about the consumer's right to say no to flawed virus ridden software? Apparently, Mr. Gates doesn't believe in empowering the consumer with the power to choose software options other than his own. Given his views concerning HIV/AIDS and the empowerment of women, one would think that he would be the champion of the public's right to stop the spread of viruses by rejecting his corporation's attempts to create a monopoly on the world's software market. After all, the threat posed to society by computer viruses is no less significant than that posed by sexually transmitted viruses.

Capt Ajax

07-21-07, 21:22

No man, you misunderstood. I'm not out there trolling for these girls. This girl turns me on in a whole different kind of way, but I've never made any kind of moves on her. I've taken a pretty good look at her ass when nobody's looking but that's it.

As for the part about trophy wife..... you betcha! And that ties in with what I was asking earlier. A guy gets the best looking woman he can posibly get, so you'd think that other women would no longer hold any interest for him. Particularly if they were just average looking. My point is that this isn't the case.

It seems like there is no one truly perfect woman..... maybe the only way a man can ever be 100% satisfied is to have a huge harem where he can have endless sexual variety. Next best thing? Termas, MPs and FKK clubs I guess.

Rock

......I like your thinking RD.

Jelly Donut

07-22-07, 00:19

Next best thing?

Well, this is how the Chinese used to do things....

"...the Emperor had as attendants a large number of wives and concubines of various ranks. These women totaled 121 (one-third of 365, to the nearest round number), including one empress, three consorts, nine spouses, twenty-seven concubines, and eight-one assistant concubines" Boorstin, Daniel J.: The Discoverers: A History of Man's Search to Know His World and Himself

http://www.amazon.com/Discoverers-History-Himself-Boorstin-Trilogy/dp/1842122274/ref=sr_1_2/102-5279250-9546549?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185052101&sr=8-2

Bango Cheito

07-22-07, 15:13

That is quite an interesting point of view for a man whose company is well known to use uncompetitive business practices to make unfair profits and has been the subject of much antitrust litigation. What about the consumer's right to say no to flawed virus ridden software? Apparently, Mr. Gates doesn't believe in empowering the consumer with the power to choose software options other than his own. Given his views concerning HIV/AIDS and the empowerment of women, one would think that he would be the champion of the public's right to stop the spread of viruses by rejecting his corporation's attempts to create a monopoly on the world's software market. After all, the threat posed to society by computer viruses is no less significant than that posed by sexually transmitted viruses.

I don't see why we should have such a problem with that. Dude, we are talking about women being forced to have sex against there will here!! You're not seriously fucking advocating that are you???

However you may wanna ***** about women there are some areas in which they are inherently superior to men. One of them is I believe they are in general much better judges of character, and MUCH better judges on when and when not to have a child.

The mayor of Cúcuta, a small town on the Colombia/Venezuela border, has a program in effect where he offers free tube-tying operations to women and free vasectomies to men, no questions asked. This town and the surrounding region were identified as one of the key areas of the country where the population was growing way too quickly.

Funny thing is they were flooded with women, especially women who had already had multiple children, and they had VERY few requests from the guys for vasectomies, despite it being a much easier procedure, with supposedly obvious benefits.

So much for Latin women being docile little breeders huh? :P And this is in a little hick town, in just about any city of over a million in Latin America the birthrate is consistent with cities in North America or Europe!!

Personally I applaud this. I don't think people should have kids they can't properly take care of, and that includes the TIME commitment, not just the financial one.

I also don't think IN GENERAL people over 40 should have kids, that is just the most disgustingly selfish and irresponsible thing! And any guy who is 40 or older looking to find a Latina wife and start breeding REALLY better check themselves. This is VERY counter-cultural in most of those countries. People deeply believe that one should have kids in ones 20s or 30s and not after.

Jelly Donut

07-22-07, 16:07

I also don't think IN GENERAL people over 40 should have kids, that is just the most disgustingly selfish and irresponsible thing! And any guy who is 40 or older looking to find a Latina wife and start breeding REALLY better check themselves.

Why do you think this? The reason I ask is, as far as I can tell, the main argument is that the father will be in his 60s or 70s when the kids graduate from high school or college. Also, that the father would not be able to keep up with the kid - play ball with him, things like that - when the kid is younger.

However, people are generally living longer and heathier lives than ever before. This changes things in a way not seen before. It's certainly likely that a sixty year old dad is not going to be able to do everything that a 30 year old dad could do; although many of the 60 year old types I know are in better shape than the average American guy over 25.

Would you rather have a older dad that was financially independant and had time to spend with you when you were 1-12 years old? (It seems to me that once a child gets to be about 12, parents occupy a role where it doesn't really matter how young or old they are.) Or would you rather have a younger dad who had major constraints on his time, and significant stress when you were are kid and (likely) starts to be more dependant on you as you were starting a family yourself? Obviously, life is more art than science, but I think there are advantages to having an older father.

Bango Cheito

07-22-07, 21:54

CBGBConnisur

07-22-07, 23:31

George90

07-22-07, 23:43

I also don't think IN GENERAL people over 40 should have kids, that is just the most disgustingly selfish and irresponsible thing! And any guy who is 40 or older looking to find a Latina wife and start breeding REALLY better check themselves. This is VERY counter-cultural in most of those countries. People deeply believe that one should have kids in ones 20s or 30s and not after.

BC is WAY off base on this one! There is a preference in Latin countries for certain women and men to have their children young. Becoming a parent is a sign that one is an adult. That is usually when a Latina leaves her parent's house and go lives with the father. Traditionally, a Latina lives with her parents until she marries. Those Latinas who want to leave home badly get pregnant very young with the first suitable man that pays attention. As we know, such unions do last long. Such women are usually poor and uneducated.

So, that part of Latin society that can see past a few years, the middle class and educated, do NOT have children young. They wait for a man who can offer a more stable marriage and family life. Frequently, that means a man who is 10 or so years older that she is.

I have met, and heard of, women who are in their 20s marrying and starting families with men in their 40s. I know this happens frequently in Colombia, Panama, Costa rica, Dominican Republic, etc. The woman is often poor and sees an older, better off man is the best way to gain security for her, her children, and possibly her parents.

The sentiments BC speaks of, I have only heard esxpressed among the elite class of Latin America.

Bango Cheito

07-23-07, 00:50

I don't think it happens as often as you think it does. I think it has to do with the segment of society someone on this board is likely to meet.

It depends a LOT on which country too. In the DR, it is not uncommon for kids still in high school to get married and move in with one family or the other until they can afford their own place, say around age NEVER or so :P

CBGBConnisur

07-23-07, 01:36

I think men in general are better able to maintain themselves than women. The real issue is that past the age of 30 most men begin to lose lean body mass aka muscles. Weight training is important in maintaining or increasing that important part of your body mass. I am in my mid 30's and I think I look better than I did in my 20s. Its really all up to you. The reason why you see so middle aged wrecks has to due with very poor lifestyle choices.

A few friends that I lift weights with are in their late 30's early 40's and are in better shape than guys half their age. A man can maintain his appearance and his appeal to the opposite sex much longer than a woman.

Super Brko

07-23-07, 07:48

How man hating and man bashing harms women:

Once, a long time ago when the world was young, I loved women with all my heart and soul. I grew up among strong competent women who understood that all living things need to be taken care of and will flourish if that happens. The men I grew up with knew that as well. Everyone knew that people must live and work together and find ways to cooperate and just deal with the inevitable differences that arise and keep them in perspective. They knew that people are not perfect, but that most of them try to be as good as they can manage. They took the measure of a person in wholeness, and if there was more good than bad to a person, they accepted that person's faults as being part of the package which was still valuable, if a bit flawed. After all, nobody really is perfect. We all knew that.

Then, something happened. And that something was called feminism. I remember the early days of the movement when it was called "Women's Liberation" which was a high sounding and noble cause in a country which is founded on a document which cites liberty as one of 3 inalienable rights that every person has. No one with a sense of fairness and an understanding of civics could be against women being liberated and treated fairly. And, there was also the promise that some of the ways men were being treated unfairly would change along with it.

And, as the old joke goes: if you believe that one, then I have some lakefront property in the Mojave Desert I'd like to talk to you about.

I learned very quickly that feminism wasn't about liberating PEOPLE from their previously too restrictive roles which were assigned to them based on the plumbing they displayed at birth, but rather was founded on a number of absolute falsehoods which had nothing to do with freedom, equality, or fairness. The fundamental premise that men had MORE power, not just a different kind of power and in a different area of society as a whole, but MORE power in a complete and absolute sense was something that I vehemently disagreed with. I could come up with thousands of examples of circumstances in which women had more power than men did. And in every example they gave of where men did have any power, I could easily point out the uneven distribution of power among men, and how a few men at the top of the wealth/influence pyramid had a lot of power, but that the vast majority of men had very little.

The strangest thing was that most of the situations in which I was being told I had or was exercising "power" seemed absolutely ridiculous to me. When I was a college freshman, one day I was walking across campus toward the student union. I reached the door about a half step ahead of a female student so, as I had been brought up to do, I hastened my last couple of steps and held the door open for her. Instead of the smile and nod that I had been used to in response to such simple acts of social courtesy, she flew into a rage and started screaming at me about how what a male chauvinist PIG I was, that she was perfectly capable of opening that door for herself and didn't need any g-- damned MAN to do it for her, and kicked me in the knee.

"Shock" is a totally inadequate word to describe my response.

I was at a loss to understand any of her reaction. She couldn't have been any more totally, completely, and absolutely wrong about my motivations and purposes. I instantly assigned her to the categories of "mentally defective", "hate filled", and female. Over the next several years, a lot of women joined her company.

A couple of years later, a woman that I was dating described her feminist "consciousness raising" group as consisting of "perfectly satisfying man hating sessions." Again, I was bewildered. I asked why she found hating me(n) so "perfectly satisfying". I don't remember the answer she gave, but she soon proved to me just how true that statement was of her. Like the knee-kicker in response to having a door opened, it seemed that anything and everything I did was proof that I deserved her hatred and rancor. At least 10 years later, she called me out of the blue to apologize. She said she realized that she had just gotten swept up in a group consciousness of hatred and had finally realized what had happened and that I had not deserved the bile she had spewed on me.

It was, I suppose, better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but it was too little and too late. Because, by then I had encountered so many other women who acted in pretty much the same way that it had simply become part of my view of what women were. Somewhere, deep down inside, either hidden or proudly displayed, women hated men. Women came in a variety of sizes and shapes, most had breasts and female genitals, but they all seemed to come with a hatred and fundamental contempt for men. One woman I dated while Jimmy Carter was still president, spoke of "my hatred of men" in the same matter-of-fact tone that she might say "my nose". It was just an integral part of her.

Needless to say, this presented me with a significant paradox and source of internal conflict. Being a healthy heterosexual male, I had the natural and universal desire that men have to have a love relationship with a woman. But, how is it possible to love someone that returns hate for that love?

So, over time I began to develop a wary distrustful posture toward women. I still dated them, but I had become so conditioned to expect hatred from them that I simply accepted it as part of the price I had to pay in order to be involved with one. My desire for a relationship was still strong, but was opposed by a distrust and unwillingness to let someone who hated me get the upper hand over me. Thus, in my mind the concept of "commitment" became one and the same as "trapped in a relationship with someone who hates me." I was indeed one of those men who "wouldn't make a commitment."

The worst part of this, for me, is that it blinded me to the warning signals of some truly sick personalities. The hostility which I had become accustomed to enduring from women became only a matter of degree - greater or lesser. And, with a baseline of being kicked in the knee for the courtesy of opening a door, and learning how "satisfying" man hating is to some women, I had no yardstick to sort out the seriously sick and deranged women from any of the rest. As a result, I ended up in some relationships that were truly horrible and very damaging to me. And, of course, each of these left scars which over time built up so much emotional scar tissue that I began to lose all the positive feelings I once had for women.

That is the personal side. And, I won't bore you with the details of all the stories. But, there eventually got to be so many that I developed the attitude that the question was not "whether" a woman would burn me if let her get close enough to do so, but "when" and "how soon" it would happen.

On the political side, things were just as bad if not worse. About the same time I started becoming the target of violent physical attacks by individual women for what I perceived as courtesy, I also became the target of vicious verbal attacks by women collectively - just for being a man.

I remember the first time I saw the slogan "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle", I knew knew my face had just been spit in. Men were not just useless to women, we were irrelevant. We had no purpose in a woman's life, and did not belong in her world at all. It was a message of hate, dismissal, and refutation. But, I also saw it as a warning of what was to come. It was like seeing clouds on the horizon, and knowing that it is time to get under cover because a storm is brewing. And, since it was obviously smearing shit in my face, it was going to be a shit storm.

Soon it became apparent that women could say any damn thing they wanted about men - no matter how wrong, no matter how hateful, no matter how unfair - and that was fine, but every time I stood up to that and said "no, that is wrong, there is another point of view" I'd get some little fem-bot harpy in my face shrieking the same old tired slogans, like a mindless Chatty Cathy doll, about how I was threatened by losing my power, wanted to keep women "in their place", was probably violent, and was a misogynist. The dull predictability and regularity of it all was only kept from being terminally boring by the shrillness and sheer vehemence of the attacks.

There is a belief among those who believe in magic that one must speak a spell 3 times in order for it to become binding and true. It took being called a misogynist a lot more than 3 times to become true, more like 300+, but in time it did become true.

I began to see women as vicious creatures whose only agenda when it came to me, or any man, was to see how much they could get from the man - then when he had nothing left to give because they had taken it all, toss him out with yesterday's garbage. In short - as nothing but users. Feminist author Wendy Dennis came out with a book in the early 1990s called "Hot and Bothered: sex and love in the 90s." Among many other astute observations in the book was that nothing was more classically typical of the state of male/female relations than the woman who complained bitterly about every aspect of men, then couldn't figure out why she couldn't get one of these awful creatures to fall madly in love with her. I had observed the same thing so many times that I had simply concluded that such women were simply not very bright. In stark contrast to the mythology of how socially adept women are, I was baffled that such women were so stupid that they didn't realize that no living thing will respond to such projections of distaste, contempt, and hatred with anything except return animosity.

I took to avoiding women, particularly groups of them, because I could never sit quietly and put up with the bashing and would always challenge it, which ended me up in a lot of fights and added greatly the count of times that I got called "misogynist." I noticed that women seemed to do it habitually, without thinking, and would confront my female friends over and over until they learned not to do it in my presence.

And, after 3 decades of listening to it, and hating it, and trying to keep the animosity which had been building in me over it - when the husband of a woman friend of mine (who had been very dishonest about her motivations for our friendship and had been trying to harass me into turning our friendship sexual) threatened to kill me and she said "I don't know why you are making such a big deal about it", I caved in and began to really hate women.

Most of the time this hatred lies dormant. I figure that the best thing I can do for myself and for women is to keep the contact I must have with them to a minimum, and to keep as much distance between them and myself as possible. It is rather like hanging a sign on a fence that says "Beware of VERY bad dog." Stay outside the fence, and everything is fine. But, come through the gate at your own risk. Leave me the hell alone and I will leave you alone.

Misogynists are not born, they are made.

I am still baffled at all the women who seem to expect men to live on a steady diet of hatred and man bashing, and somehow magically metabolize this toxic diet into "love" for women and a desire to see good things come to them. When I work real hard, I can make the anger cold and take no joy when bad things happen to women, simply regard it with indifference. When I hear a woman whine about being victimized, I simply tune her out and go elsewhere.

When a woman smiles at me, I think of an old ethic bashing joke - "What does a ______ say instead of 'fuck you'?" answer "Trust Me."

I will not allow most women in my house unless I have known her a long time and she is old enough to have escaped being infected with the plague of man hating or is escorted by someone I trust, nor will I enter theirs except on the same conditions. If I pass a woman stranded on the road, I will not stop to help her because it is as likely as not that she will be afraid of me. That's fine. She's a fish without a bicycle - I have no place in her world, nor her in mine.

Man bashing and man hating harms women, because it makes men hate them back - eventually. A puppy returns love for love, but if you beat it will eventually turn mean and will one day turn on you when you raise your fist or your stick (or the club of words) to hit it. Men are no different. When women talk about treating men like dogs, I wish they would. It would be an improvement. Most women treat their dogs far better than they treat their men.

Somewhere along the line, I went through a metamorphosis. I changed from a man who loved women and thought they were just about the greatest thing in the world, to a man who can't stand them, or anything about them.

I'm sick and tired of the lies that women tell about men, I'm sick and tired of their victim games, I'm sick and tired of hatred and bashing I have to put up with when I am around them. I am sick and tired of the arrogant contempt in which they seem to hold me and all other men. I am sick to death of the way that some of them feel the need to seek me out to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) me off. A couple of years back, at the funeral of my uncle, as fine a man as I have ever known, some woman felt the need to start a conversation with me as I sat with my private grief. She wanted me to agree with her that men don't ask for directions.

How could anyone be so stupid and socially incompetent? When men came up to me to talk, it was always with something like "Your uncle was a fine man", not "aren't men headstrong and stupid?"

Invariably, when I tell a woman about all this, she tries to argue with me and say something like "get over it", or "why don't you take the gender out of it?" In return I ask, "why the hell don't you women get over it, and take the gender out of it?"

I would like nothing better than to be left in peace, and allow women to enjoy the absence of my company which they find so annoying and unpleasant. Every day, a few more men got through the transformation and become like me. We don't get our guns and shoot a few women; we don't beat them up; because what women have been saying about us all these years is just flat wrong. But, there's no point in trying to tell women that because they have become so certain of their superiority that the best way to deal with them is to leave them to it, and the company of their other fishy friends

Sasha Coffee

07-23-07, 13:53

I'm sure we all know that a successful relationship is based on equal power sharing.

Both parties will come into the relationship with strengths and weaknesses the trick is knowing where your own strengths and weaknesses lie and having the maturity to step back and let your partner take control when facing a situation that they have more ability to deal with.

The whole problem with relationships today is that everyone wants all the power and all the power all the time. Maybe that is a feminist thing that has been left over from our bra burning mothers. Who knows. But the sooner that woman accept that men are far better at making logical decisions the better off we will all be. I know that women are capable of logic but sadly men are better.

I know that men are quite happy to let us take the lead when it comes to things that we are better at. They happily accept our ability to nurture and soft side and see it as a huge positive, its what makes a woman attractive to a man.

I say to all you men out there. I wish you luck with these ball breaker women you seem to have.

Opebo

07-23-07, 21:55

...the sooner that woman accept that men are far better at making logical decisions the better off we will all be. I know that women are capable of logic but sadly men are better.

So, why should we accept your opinion on the matter if you're an irrational hysteric, Sasha? Bit of a catch-22 there.

No offense, just pointing out a funny contradiction.

Jelly Donut

07-23-07, 22:30

Au contraire, the problem is when they hit puberty and Dad is hitting the Geritol.

THAT is when you REALLY need all the energy in the world to keep on top of them!!!

As for living longer lives, yes! Healthier, in the US I don't fucking think so. Most people's bodies are a wreck by middle age here, and by the time they are 60 they have half a pharmacy's worth of pills to take on a daily basis.

Well, I agree, many people are a physical wreck once the American workplace and the demands of family are done with them. There are plenty of health problems with Americans.

However, at the same time, for example, you are seeing the median age of men increasing in marathons - in 1980, the median age was 34, by 2003 it was 40 (coolrunning.com). During that time the numbers of people finishing marathons exploded, so it's not simply that the population is getting older. The median age of Americans is around 35 years; the median age of people finishing marathons is out-pacing the overall aging of the population. There are a good number of Americans who are older and in good shape.

All this is a way of suggesting we are both right. I hope and plan to be in decent physical condition in my 60's; based on your posts it seems like you will be, too.

As for raising teenagers, I don't know that territory. My impression has been teenagers don't like spending time with parents in the teenage years, and that most of the time and energy parents invest in that time is less physical. But, like I say, I don't know.

George90

07-25-07, 04:23

I saw on CNN headlines earlier today that a US man sued his divorced wife for cessation of alimony payments. He lost. Why?

Because the judge ruled that the divorce terms said that alimony payments cease when the ex remarries. While the ex entered into a registered partnership with another woman, she did not re-marry, ergo payments continue.

This poor sap is on the hook for supporting 2 grown, able-bodied and able-minded women. I wonder how many other men are falling into this same catch-22?

Yogin

07-25-07, 23:09

How man hating and man bashing harms women:
I learned very quickly that feminism wasn't about liberating PEOPLE from their previously too restrictive roles which were assigned to them based on the plumbing they displayed at birth, but rather was founded on a number of absolute falsehoods which had nothing to do with freedom, equality, or fairness. The fundamental premise that men had MORE power, not just a different kind of power and in a different area of society as a whole, but MORE power in a complete and absolute sense was something that I vehemently disagreed with. I could come up with thousands of examples of circumstances in which women had more power than men did. And in every example they gave of where men did have any power, I could easily point out the uneven distribution of power among men, and how a few men at the top of the wealth/influence pyramid had a lot of power, but that the vast majority of men had very little.

Read "The Myth of Male Power". It debunks all the mythology that feminism as propogated, that is now undisputedly accepted as fact in mainstream thought and media.
http://www.menweb.org/farreliv.htm

That Asshole

07-26-07, 18:16

I'm sure we all know that a successful relationship is based on equal power sharing.

That's funny, I never heard about it. Which TV channel was that?

That Asshole

07-26-07, 18:28

people are generally living longer and healthier lives than ever before.

That must be another TV channel I don't watch. Longer...? Healthier?? This forum is getting funny. Do you really believe it?

Should we say: "...people are breathing for more years than previously..."? But that "live longer"? No way. They are brain-dead at 20 years.

Living or just simply "breathing" is not the same. Anyone?

George90

07-27-07, 00:01

i don't know if this news item hit your local paper yet. i hope leno and letterman make lots of joke-hay out of it.

in south florida, a 20-year-old prisoner was arrested, tried, and sentenced to 2 additional months on to his original 10 years sentence for ... masturbating!

a female guard, working in a male prison, took offense to men masturbating and started reporting them. this guy was the 8th in all but the first to be tried and sentenced. 4 others took plea bargains and 3 others have trials pending. the prosecutor argued that a prison cell is a public place and that masturbating in it was indecent exposure.

i want to know why prisoner who [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) and crap in their cells are not also prosecuted for indecent exposure!

this is what we get for our taxes! we can't get our ports secured. we can;t get quality public schools, we can't get universal health insurance. but boy-oh-boy, if a woman is offended by a man getting off in his own 'home', we have tons of money and time and effort to make sure we punish him for it. what is this country coming to?

Rock Dog

07-27-07, 06:31

Yeah that's pretty fucked up. Shows you what the real priorities are.

On another topic, anyone watch America's Got Talent? Seems like talent isn't enough to get you through to the final. Nope, it takes a healthy dose of political correctness as well.

What am I blathering about? Well, there's these four fat broads in a group calling themselves the "Glamazons". Basically, they are four overweight women who sing together.... just not that well. Amazingly (or not) the 3 judges are falling over themselves to complement these 4 fat fucks, not so much on their talent, but as to great they are for showing that "big women are sexy".

Then they picked the Flabtastic Four to go through to the finals. So they're getting through not on talent, but because they're fat. I can take a little PC, but this really pisses me off.

Comments?

Rock

Jelly Donut

07-27-07, 07:40

That must be another TV channel I don't watch. Longer...? Healthier?? This forum is getting funny. Do you really believe it?

This is the first time I've ever faced the "I have not seen it on television, therefore it is unbelievable" argument.

I have to admit, I kind of like this line of reasoning, and I hope you don't mind it use it the next time I'm trying to prove a point over beers. We can give it a name like "The Asshole Axiom" if you like...

Bango Cheito

07-27-07, 14:00

Rock, that's the #1 reason why my ass is outta here!!!

Clandestine782

07-27-07, 14:33

I said it once and I'll say it again: You guys could always have it worse (you could be black, and your choices would be limited to stupid black b.itches or fat and--shall we say-- less attractive white women).

Every day that you look up and see that your dating pool is not quite what you think it is, always realize that it could be much worse.

Talking about evil, ugly American women: I've just parted ways with my family because they insulted my wife. I married a Chinese girl (and what is not to like about Asian women? They are slim, have great skin/ hair, and don't have the vaginal odor that plagues lots of Western women) and my parents complained about it. Nevermind that this is not their concern, but can you imagine idiots like the women in my family saying things?

1. Mother has the IQ of a random boot full of Ukrainian goat [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) and has spent 32 years propping up a dope addict (my father) in the interest of having a husband;
2. Sister is a sack chaser who railed on about the evil of White men all during her university days, and then started a relationship with the very first *really old* white man that came up to her and offered her a few dollars to pay her rent. For the record, her IQ is marginally higher than my mother's-- if that's saying much;
3. Grandmother who has children that have never left the dependency stage-- even though this child is over 50.

And what do these morons all have in common? They are *stupid black b.itches!!* And that's what we black men are expected to be interested in in terms of marriage potential. (Nevermind that I would rather die of blood loss from repeatedly zipping the head of my pecker up in my fly than have sex with any black woman-- excepting Karyn Parsons/ Alicia Keys/ Tatyana Ali, who are only 1/2 black.)

So, you white guys out there, however bad you think it is for you-- it gets worse!

Capt Ajax

07-27-07, 18:06

I said it once and I'll say it again: You guys could always have it worse (you could be black, and your choices would be limited to stupid black b.itches or fat and--shall we say-- less attractive white women).

Clandestine782 the question is why are these Black American women bitches? Is it a result of how they are treated by Black American men? For instance part of society perceives Black Americans as criminals, or with a potential to commit crime, unemployed, irresponsible for their own good, intellectually challenged, highest rate of divorce, highest number of kids to single parents, highest number of youngest teens with a child… the list is endless.

I'm a Caribbean Black male and I have to say that Black American women are the nastiest of ALL the women I've ever met and I refuse to date them. I have no problem dating Black women from other countries.

In regards to your comments about Black American men and less attractive fat White women you might have a point here because I've noticed this too. I think these unattractive White women are very aggressive at pushing themselves on Black American men offering free sex, money etc. I would not be caught dead with any of these types of women.

There are many attractive White women interested in dating Black guys but are not aggressive or very open about it....move in the right circles and they are pretty easy to find.

Brenno

07-27-07, 18:50

oh, this is a fight club isn't it? nice. i like fight clubs. with angels and devils.

now and then.

i write here mostly to practice my english 'cause i'm not an english mother's language man. long life and luck gentlemen, but let's thinks about facts. ideas are always personals, coming from everyone own experience, long life is not an experience, is a statistic issue. let's compare how the life was at the start of 19th century and how it is now. before ww1 medium life of a man was roughly 65, women 63. more or less, the expected life of large part of third world, actually. but life in rich countries has changed, let's see how. let's follow the life of four children, a male and female born in the early 19th and a male and female born on 1950, wich are the ones with the longest expected life nowaday. lets' call them 19m and 19f the former ones, and 20m and 20f the latter ones.

19m,19f,20m,20f are born
19m,19f,20m,20f at 6 years old go to primary school
19m,19f,20m,20f at 11 years old go to secondary school
19f,20f at 14 years old get fertile both
19m,19f,20m,20f at 18 years old eventually go to college
19m,19f,20m,20f at 18 years old eventually find a job
19m,19f,20m,20f at 22 years old ends college and find out a job
19m,19f from 22 to 30 years old try to make a family
20m,20f from 22 to 40 years old try to make a family
19m,19f 95% make a family before 30 years old
20m,20f 95% make a family before 40 years old
19f,20f get unfertile at 50-55 both
19m,19f work until 65,63 when they die (statistically)
20m,20f work until they get 65-70 and they stop work.

the only difference in between the two couple is the latter has a longer oldness. life to do things, to really live is still the same, we'll just have longer time when we will be old, to complain not to having done things when we were young, in the wrong sensation there was a lot of time left. especially women, when they get 55 they start to get nervous "oh my god, i didn't had enough sex, life is too short, why don't you want me anymore...". then, when i was 20 or 30 and my dick was tough all time long i couldn't use it because female "think" they want the best, a better man, there is time to, but at last those 20 years of fullpower betwen 20 and 40 remain still 20 years now and in 19th and even in 18th or in 14th centuries. soon when they get 50 their beauty disappear, they feel not to be desired anymore and they get angry for that and start to say the women must be judged for they intelligence, for their skills, for their professional competence. but when they were young, they felt beauty they judged themselves having high value and pretend to become vip because of their beauty, not for their skills they couldn't care less. models, tv stars, even female rockstar are all examples. an who is the woman who won't to be a model? life is still the same, you have 30 years of fullpower life, then you are old. old women because their ar not desired feel jealous of young women, then start to say man going with girl are ****, the truth is they would like to be those girls and get jealous. old men get viagra and go where expected life is still 45 then women do not have time to feel themselves to much precious to deny themselves. then old women at home get angry once more and go to third world telling them they must refuse themselves to the evils porkies hornies western men. they do not care about horny chinese, horny japanese, horny thai or whatever, because they (women) feel to be open minded, and modern, and respectful of others culture but not the one of their own men, whom they want to keep jailed in the sex prison they built around them. the thought behind this behavior is very simple, mostly unconscious but quite clear: they are angries because they feel not desired anymore.
life is still the same, oldness is longer, real evilness have always been in females, from the very first chapter of human being's history. you don't have a longer life, you only have a longer oldness. yes, viagra help to have fun even then, but you well know in the deep of your heart there is the sadness of not having had happiness while you were fullpower men, and no latter fun can rewind time and delete that sadness for not having really lived, you wanted but you couldn't 'cause self-referenced precious women dind't let you do. that's it.
brenno.

Bango Cheito

07-27-07, 21:20

I wouldn't fuck Alicia Keys. She has some nasty cratered skin under all that foundation!

Ezinho

07-27-07, 21:44

I'm a Caribbean Black male and I have to say that Black American women are the nastiest of ALL the women I've ever met and I refuse to date them. I have no problem dating Black women from other countries.

Ok, so does anyone have any idea why this is; why American black women are SO much different from black women from almost anywhere else on the planet? I must say, the attitude of the black women I've met/dated in South America is light years beyond their American sisters. But why?

I will admit that I have met a couple black women in the US that were very nice (and looked good too) but they were almost *always* biracial (usually half white-half black). So, for a while I though maybe that had something to do with it. But then going to South America, and meeting the black women there, the girls from Bahia in Brasil or coastal Ecuador that have 100% African ancestory, were nothing like the black women in America. So that shot my whole "biracial theory" out of the water.

I'm sure someone will bring up that since America is the wealthiest country in the world, that is why the black women in the U.S. are the way they are. But, let's keep in mind that the majority of African Americans do not belong to the middle or upper classes of America, and in fact, many are poor. Since some on here believe that having less money makes women more humble, you would think that African-American women would be good prospects as girlfriends/wives. We wouldn't need to travel 6,000 miles to meet nice, simple women, we could just drive down to the local housing project. But this does not seem to be the case at all.

Please do not take my comments to seem bigoted or prejudiced, because that is not the case at all. If anyone has seen my photo contibutions on this site, you know that I love black women and find them to be very sexy. But this topic of black women from America vs. black women from anywhere else has intrigued me for a while now, and I'm interested in what others on here think.

Bango Cheito

07-27-07, 22:04

I don't think it has anything to do with money, I think it has to do with puritanical religion and the entitlement mentality, along with a lack of emphasis on things like education.

I'm pretty outspoken on this, but I think the difference between white and black America is GROSSLY exaggerated by both sides. I don't even like to look at things in terms of skin color at all.

They are doing mitochondrial DNA research now and just now finding how unreliable skin color is in determining one's ancestry. You could be very dark skinned and really only have 25% or less African DNA, conversely you could be light enough to pass but still be 2/3 or more African.

I think the cultural differences are MUCH more important than the genetic ones.

Opebo

07-27-07, 23:29

...I married a Chinese girl (and what is not to like about Asian women? They ... don't have the vaginal odor that plagues lots of Western women) and my parents complained about it.

I can just see it now 'Son, Ting-tong is a nice enough girl, but I can't smell her pussy. That isn't natural.'.

Sorry I couldn't resist that one. But serously they probably dislike an Asian because Asians don't love Jesus.

KnickFan

07-28-07, 01:40

In my opinion, African women – as in born and raised in South Africa, as opposed to African American women – are some of the most desirable women on the face of the earth. Contrary to popular belief, a belief (or should I say stereotype? ) that black women are confrontational, angry, gold diggers, emasculating, argumentative etc. African women can be surprisingly submissive. I venture further to say that many African women are very respectful of men, manner able, attentive, loving, and sincere. I’ve also found many African women to be very personable, friendly, and gregarious. They have a tendency to fall for a good man relatively quickly without any reservations or drama and be dedicated to the man they‘re with. African women will not give a man the runaround. If an African woman is not interested in you she’s going to let you know very abruptly with her body language. If she doesn’t laugh at you or ignore you she’ll definitely walk away from you. But if she senses there’s chemistry between you and her she’ll be locked on you like a heat-seeking missile. I’ve dated African women from Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Kenya, Ghana, and Zaire but the one nationality of African women I’m most attracted to are Ethiopian women. Ethiopian women have an exotic almost extraterrestrial Beauty that is unlike any other women on Earth.

Their skin is usually a rich honey brown or a tannish cocoa butter hue, large oval eyes, thick, silky hair, a very small nose and wonderfully full lips as if they were going to burst with Mango juice. They have a very small bone structure, which is the reason for dramatic body lines. A tiny neck, like the twig of a tree, a very small waist, perfectly sculpted hips and thighs and a perfectly round forehead. Their facial features are large, almond-shaped dark brown eyes, protruding cheekbones, and extraordinarily white teeth. All of these physical features are clearly indistinguishable from any other nationality of African women. Upon first contact, if an Ethiopian woman is attracted to you she’s going to smile right away. She’s going to be flirtatious yet maintain her. They maintain eye contact and are comfortable being in close proximity to a man. Many Ethiopian women aren’t shy or bashful at all. If they find you interesting they will make direct eye contact with you even if it’s just in passing at a mall or other public place. One thing you do have to look out for, though, is to keep your distance if the Ethiopian female you’re interested in travels with her mom. And many young Ethiopian women, particularly, between the ages of 19 to late twenties. Ethiopian mothers can be very protective of their daughters, which means you’ll have to find out how to get to through a friend.

In my experience, Ethiopian men can also be very friendly and accommodating. If you’re lucky you’ll make friends with an Ethiopian man for three reasons: (1) They can be very trustworthy and usually develop very strong friendships. (2) They usually have a vast number of other friends and will make a valiant effort to introduce you to them. (3) Many of them have at least two if not three sisters (see what I’m getting at?)

Capt Ajax

07-28-07, 01:42

I said it once and I'll say it again: You guys could always have it worse (you could be black, and your choices would be limited to stupid black b.itches or fat and--shall we say-- less attractive white women).

Clandestine782 I've just found out why Black American women are so angry/bitter at Black males. Watch and enjoy!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-TUj69HLb0

KnickFan

07-28-07, 01:51

Clandestine782 the question is why are these Black American women bitches? Is it a result of how they are treated by Black American men? For instance part of society perceives Black Americans as criminals, or with a potential to commit crime, unemployed, irresponsible for their own good, intellectually challenged, highest rate of divorce, highest number of kids to single parents, highest number of youngest teens with a child… the list is endless.

I'm a Caribbean Black male and I have to say that Black American women are the nastiest of ALL the women I've ever met and I refuse to date them. I have no problem dating Black women from other countries.

In regards to your comments about Black American men and less attractive fat White women you might have a point here because I've noticed this too. I think these unattractive White women are very aggressive at pushing themselves on Black American men offering free sex, money etc. I would not be caught dead with any of these types of women.

There are many attractive White women interested in dating Black guys but are not aggressive or very open about it....move in the right circles and they are pretty easy to find.I have to say Caribean women -in my experience- come in a close 2nd to American Black women.

Namely from the following Countries- Jamaica , Dominican Republic , and Haiti. I can't name the worst it’s a toss up here with me. Whether I got a lot of play from a Caribbean woman or no play at all I’ve never had any good luck with them. First of all, most of them are caught up in this fallacy that they aren’t black. Secondly, they have this uncanny ability to zero in on the worst of the worst dudes a human female could be involved with. This, in turn, gives them the dysfunctional state of mind that leads many of them to pursue, as well as stay with, the craziest, tyrannical, chauvinistic, barbaric, unreasonable, ignorant of men. Of all the Caribbean women I’ve had the pleasure of becoming romantically involved with, some of these women have actually had complaints about my endowment - one.

Now, I’m a good eight-and-a-half to nine inches (nine if I’m really into the woman I’m with and I‘ve been working out on a regular basis) but a couple of these females have actually alluded to the notion that they prefer bigger dicks!! Far be it for me to complain. Hey, I ain’t hating in the least. If a woman thinks she needs 12 inches or longer to get her rocks off, then more power to you. But you have to think for a moment. If a dude with a dick the length of my forearm was so great what the hell are you all the way over here in the states sweating me for? I ain’t mad – I’m just sayin’. Anyways, many Caribbean women can be some of the most unpredictable, difficult to deal with, two-faced, untrustworthy, back-stabbing, arrogant females on the face of the earth.

Super Brko

07-28-07, 03:09

http://christianparty.net/garbgen.htm

THE STONE AGE=THE GHETTO where father role is reduced to nothing. Our black brothers are becoming slaves again.

"Male juvenile criminals who are a threat to the public, that "three-fourths came from broken homes.means mostly female-headed homes. That means that while the single mothers of these criminals do not themselves commit crimes and go to prison, the social]ization they give their children has an extraordinarily high correlation with the male crime of the next generation."

Clandestine782

07-28-07, 06:36

Clandestine782 I've just found out why Black American women are so angry/bitter at Black males. Watch and enjoy!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-TUj69HLb0Fuck!!!! Where did you find that one? I'm glad to know that some people here understand me. For the record, the reason that my parents did not accept my wife is not because of religion. It is simply because she is not black. (Because you know that being black is such a great thing that we want to keep our race pure [tee hee hee].)

George90

07-28-07, 07:16

Clandestine782 I've just found out why Black American women are so angry/bitter at Black males. Watch and enjoy!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-TUj69HLb0

I only watched the first 2 minutes of the video. I was getting freaked over the hyper-analytical why that woman was discussing men and women. I think the line "If a man only lives to ejaculate ... " made me realize I couldn't listen to 9 minutes of that stuff.

I am Black and also don't date Black American women, since I don't date American women of any race. The video had little interest for me.

George90

07-28-07, 07:33

Ok, so does anyone have any idea why this is; why American black women are SO much different from black women from almost anywhere else on the planet? I must say, the attitude of the black women I've met/dated in South America is light years beyond their American sisters. But why?

I have a question for Astor Bryan.

How do Caribbean Black women compare to American Black women. I grew up around Trinidadian, Jamaican, Barbadian, Bahamian Black women. I found them to have no better, and often worse, attitudes towards men than Black American women. A former colleague told me thay when the Lorena Bobbitt story hit, the West Indian women in her classes cheered when the subject came up.

I think it is the British cultural heritage that is the main culprit. French, Spanish, and Portuguese cultural heritage is so different. There is FAR less hostility towards men.

George90

07-28-07, 07:49

I said it once and I'll say it again: You guys could always have it worse (you could be black, and your choices would be limited to stupid black b.itches or fat and--shall we say-- less attractive white women).

And what do these morons all have in common? They are *stupid black b.itches!!* And that's what we black men are expected to be interested in in terms of marriage potential. (Nevermind that I would rather die of blood loss from repeatedly zipping the head of my pecker up in my fly than have sex with any black woman-- excepting Karyn Parsons/ Alicia Keys/ Tatyana Ali, who are only 1/2 black.)

So, you white guys out there, however bad you think it is for you-- it gets worse!

Before I started travelling abroad, I dipped into the US dating pool. There are many nice Black women around. In my experience, none of them had the usual materialistic, egocentric, anti-man attitudes. One was a new age. save the whales, hippie type. She was very nice to the extent of getting used by some men. Another was a Muslim. She was participating in the Million Man March Movement from the mid-90s. There were many attitude-free Black women close to the Nation of Islam. My problem was that they were so few and far between that it was not worth it to continue. The foreign dating pool is much more fruitful.

I would not single out Black American women. White American women can be just as bad. Blacks have a low marriage rate, so the high divorce rate that is in the US is driven by WHITE marriages. I read that for married women over 45, 75% of divorce petitions are intiated by the woman. If her husband is 5-10 years older than her, then he is in his peak earning years and heading to retirement. When his assets are highest, she decides to divorce him. This is what White men deal with.

Chocha Monger

07-28-07, 07:54

Clandestine782 I've just found out why Black American women are so angry/bitter at Black males. Watch and enjoy!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-TUj69HLb0
Astor Bryan,

That video was hilarious! I couldn't stop laughing when she began to speak about the heat of the penis and the pounding of the bottom of the vagina. It's amazing that they actually give air time to stuff like that but I bet women just eat that shit up. I'm sending it to all my buddies.

Dickhead

07-28-07, 11:31

Although clearly Kuner's and not Heinz is the best ketchup, it is funny to log back on to this forum after several years and see the same people discussing the same things. DJ4Money appears to have left the country and is doing well playing the black card in Germany, which doesn't surprise me, having lived in Germany. Rubber Nursey seems to be doing well.

The car debate is funny because I sold my car a year before I left the US and froze my Jones off riding my motorcycle in a very cold state, just to be sure I could take living without a car. I love living without a car. I never want to be dependent on a car again. I have driven a couple of times and if I ever need to again, it is a skill I still have. Subway costs 20 cents US, bus 25 cents US, train 15 cents US, not paying car insurance = PRICELESS.

So now it has been four years of happy expatriation and I have been back three times for a week or so; I have fun with my friends but I can't wait to leave again, every time I go back. I have increased my net worth over 60% (even with the last two days of carnage in the financial markets), I have slept with 300 more women from ten or so more different countries, and I don't miss American women at all. I got certified in ESL so I have a back-up plan when I get sick of doing what I've been doing (okay, I am sick of it already after seven years) and I can always make a living as a cook, wherever I am.

Everyone in the US, the "greatest country in the world," which of course already had serious problems by the time I left, said I would be back in six months. Nope. Not coming back. Ever. I don't know if I will stay in Buenos Aires but I think South America for sure. Europe is too expensive and too crowded. Australia is too isolated and too condom oriented, and despite the per capita wheat statistics the food there is severely unimaginative. Southern Asia is too fucking humid. The only way I would live in the tropics is to live at high altitude.

Latina women wake up every day thinking about sex. American women wake up every day thinking about how to avoid sex. Argentinean women will let their men cheat as long as they pay the bills (and are simultaneously cheating and doing a much better job of hiding it). In Argentina you have the bidet, similar to Europe; in contrast a large percentage of American women have stinky pussies. French and Germany women have B.O., a lot of them. Australia has the cleanest toilets in the world but a blow job with a condom is not something I am willing to pay for any more.

The women here don't like lubricated latex in their mouths either: "¿Por que me voy a chupar una goma?" = why do I want to suck on a tire? They want your lechita. "Ay papi dame toda tu leche"; "Polvate tu leche en mis tetitas" and so forth. Come in my mouth, come all over my tits, "como quieras." "Como quieras" is my favorite reason for living here = "However you want to do it." "Poneme en cuatro" (doggie me) is a close second while "Haceme por cola" (fuck me in the ass) is a very distant third although if the chica asks very nicely I will very occasionally oblige just to be a gentleman.

Cars no. Fast food no. Fat chicas no. Rat race no. Two weeks' vacation a year no (I am working seven months a year and making $48k US). Tickets for jaywalking or drinking beer on the street or drunk walking, no. Bush no. War in Iraq no. War anywhere no. Fired for sexual harassment for looking at some woman's tits that she is SHOVING IN MY FACE, no.

Okay, soccer actually sucks and I do miss baseball. Love to all on the forum and sure glad I found it when I did.

Bango Cheito

07-28-07, 12:05

I'm pissing myself laughing too, but at the same time I think she's right on point actually.

She's condemning not just men who fuck married women but women who are married and fuck around. She's talking about how it's a shame that a woman gets a man to provide for her, and then goes and gets some dude on the side. And she's talking about how women should be more reasonable and think things through instead of just using their emotions, which is a lot of what people are bitching about on here.

Rubber Nursey

07-28-07, 12:35

DH!! Great to see you again, baby. And very glad to hear all is well in your South American paradise.

I certainly am doing well. Ok, not so well on the finance front...but I'm happy and settled in my little rural hideaway and have finally found myself a fantastic man who supports all my crazy causes, makes me laugh and fucks like the Energiser Bunny. Almost two years together and if we haven't had sex at least three times in 24 hours, we feel like we've let the team down. Finally, after all these years, a man whose libido matches mine. Never thought I'd see the day.

Take care, DH. Don't be a stranger!

DJ FourMoney

07-28-07, 12:50

Well I didn't really workout in Germany. But in other places I did better. Problem was not enough time spent in one place to work my way "in". Anyway I'm working on that and its nice to see you around.

I went to Germany, England, Norway, Sweden and Ukraine (not in that order)

I'm going back soon, this picture sez it all -

http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/euro_vs_america.jpg

George90

07-28-07, 20:28

DH,

It is great to hear a success story! Keep on truckin'!

Capt Ajax

07-28-07, 21:29

I have to say Caribean women -in my experience- come in a close 2nd to American Black women.

Namely from the following Countries- Jamaica , Dominican Republic , and Haiti. I can't name the worst it’s a toss up here with me.

I agree with you KF, Caribbean women from Jamaica, Trinidad are a close 2nd to American Black women. I also find African women from Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia to be quite attractive.

CBGBConnisur

07-29-07, 04:32

Super Brko

07-29-07, 10:33

Naked Gunz

07-29-07, 14:26

I agree with you KF, Caribbean women from Jamaica, Trinidad are a close 2nd to American Black women. I also find African women from Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia to be quite attractive.

Yeah but those same African women are worse than the Carribean and American women. Just go to Dubai and deal with them. And some have their clits cut off too...that would make anybody crazy.

Pour some Asian sweetness in a well stacked Latina and you have a winner.

I had a Filipina that would wash me,put on my clothes and watch me fuck other girls. Thais,Chinese are great too. Korean would cut your throat in your sleep.

I probably wont marry again, but esp not a woman,Black or whatever, with a bad upbringing. Use the same theory when adopting a pet. If that dog has been mistreated, it will bite the hand that feeds him.

DJ FourMoney

07-29-07, 15:09

Ukraine is a gold mine for meeting women, the one Ukrainian I met this summer had me floored.

Yeah too bad the girl I ended up with a single mother (married before) and not much of a looker, though her body isn't bad compared to what I saw from "normal" girls on the street. River Palace on the other hand.... Stunners galore and while no punai is FREE and hookas demand payment for services rendered, I'm sure I can find a "normal" Ukraine girl that looks better than the one that says she misses me and because its hot is half naked on cam... :D and I get the occasional "flash" from ;)

DJ FourMoney

07-29-07, 15:21

Yeah but those same African women are worse than the Carribean and American women. Just go to Dubai and deal with them. And some have their clits cut off too...that would make anybody crazy.

Pour some Asian sweetness in a well stacked Latina and you have a winner.

I had a Filipina that would wash me,put on my clothes and watch me fuck other girls. Thais,Chinese are great too. Korean would cut your throat in your sleep.

I probably wont marry again, but esp not a woman,Black or whatever, with a bad upbringing. Use the same theory when adopting a pet. If that dog has been mistreated, it will bite the hand that feeds him.

Some of that rings very true...

The general problem with Latinas is if they aren't educated, either they have to learn English (not likely in America, especially on the west coast where they don't have to utter a single word of English and get away with it: live normal lives) or you have to learn Spanish and yes I know some of you out there like when they can't speak English but there some advantages when they can. If your intention is to keep them under foot, the dumber they are the better, I get that.

That is why I choose to visit Europe first and will go back before I ever go to South America. That might sound crazy to some of you, but I value an English speaking woman and unlike other parts of the world, the price doesn't go up just because they can communicate with you.

Yes some of the exploits of members bangin cuties in the bushes of South America sounds inviting but I'm not that adventurous yet - :D

But OH would I LOVE to have an Argentinean or Brazilian girl with European features, big green eyes and an ass you can put your drink on top of...

Brenno

07-29-07, 22:10

George90

07-29-07, 22:52

Use the same theory when adopting a pet. If that dog has been mistreated, it will bite the hand that feeds him.That theory is an excellent 'rule of thumb'. I disagree that it should be taken as Gospel. People vary in their level of resiliency. Many can rise above their upbringing and make excellent spouses even though they had poor role models in their parents or parent-surrogates. Of course, many cannot and they should be avoided like the plague. The key is to develop some sort of strategy that enables you to distinguish between the two.

While you applied this theory to women, it applies equally to men. I am sure that many women avoid certain men, some perhaps on this forum, for precisely that reason.

Personally, I have found that women who are resilient and had to overcome some sort of personal or family tragedy or dysfunction make very good partners. Women who have had an easy childhood seem to expect an easy adulthood and throw tantrums when running up against normal life obstacles. But of course, YMMV.

Dickhead

07-30-07, 00:04

George90

07-30-07, 04:50

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--sextours0718jul18,0,4986788,print.story?coll=ny-region-apnew%20york

You, the US citizen, are the exclusive property of the state. Any crime you commit while in a foreign country, though it may be legal in that other country, can be prosecuted upon your return, if there is ample evidence against you.

That guy was big time DUMB! So were his customers.

You are correct that more and more politcians, some led by radical feminists, want to project US law worldwide and make a world sex prison for US men. I am waiting for them to prosecute some women. A woman went to Jamaica. got laid, got married, then got divorced. She can write a book and make a movie about it, but no one prosecutes her.

George90

07-30-07, 04:57

You guys do really think european women are different from your americans? Then, ask yourself, why we european guys go brothels as well around the world? Cuba is full of european, SE Asia as well, philippine's women have been imported heavily, I think you are dreaming about a past doesn't exist anymore. Europe is on the track of america, may be 4-5 years in late, not more.Which guys are you referring to? I only see a handful of posters raving about European women. The vast majority of men are into Latin and Asian women.

I have spent time in Europe and agree with you. Anglo British women are as bad as American women. I have met some Dutch, Italian, French, Swiss, and German women. They all had similar ambitions and desires in marriage as American women. My only caveat was that I did not meet a random sample of European women. It was an academic trip and all the women were university students.

My point is that only a minority of American men are thinking as you accuse.

Chocha Monger

07-30-07, 07:28

DJ FourMoney

07-30-07, 09:51

Well DJ that is a pretty ignorant attitude. Places like Buenos Aires and Santiago de Chile are world-class cities with plenty of English speakers (whom I sedulously avoid) and no bushes. Also there is no correlation between being "dumb" and not speaking English. And if there is, and you can't speak any other language, then what does that make YOU?

However I have not met a single Argentinean with green eyes and if you want an ass you can set your drink on you had best stick to Brazil but of course all those women are black.

I'm sure there "around" that's like saying there no black people with blue eyes...

I never said those cities had any bushes, but don't act like there isn't any jungle or rain forest in those countries - IE BUSH

I wasn't trying to imply that not knowing English makes you stupid. How many other countries speak Spanish? More than the countries that have English as their native language, I get that.

But yeah I see it all over this forum, and you avoid them too, I never really understood that. Since your DH and have no fear, how about explaining that one to me.

I could say this is largely along racial lines, but I'll avoid that for now.

DJ FourMoney

07-30-07, 10:06

Which guys are you referring to? I only see a handful of posters raving about European women. The vast majority of men are into Latin and Asian women.

I have spent time in Europe and agree with you. Anglo British women are as bad as American women. I have met some Dutch, Italian, French, Swiss, and German women. They all had similar ambitions and desires in marriage as American women. My only caveat was that I did not meet a random sample of European women. It was an academic trip and all the women were university students.

My point is that only a minority of American men are thinking as you accuse.

In his experience he might only run into European women that want the big house on the outskirts of town, a 7 seres in driveway and a vacation home on the French Rivera.

I haven't met those types and according to Dirk Dingy I will never meet those types cause I ain't white or Turk...

Naked Gunz

07-30-07, 20:33

That theory is an excellent 'rule of thumb'. I disagree that it should be taken as Gospel. People vary in their level of resiliency. The key is to develop some sort of strategy that enables you to distinguish between the two. While you applied this theory to women, it applies equally to men. I am sure that many women avoid certain men, some perhaps on this forum, for precisely that reason.
Personally, I have found that women who are resilient and had to overcome some sort of personal or family tragedy or dysfunction make very good partners. Women who have had an easy childhood seem to expect an easy adulthood and throw tantrums when running up against normal life obstacles. But of course, YMMV.

George my strategy is just how she makes me feel. US chick or non_US.
The key is to SEE through her bullshist and see she really love you and not get taken. Tough job dude, to see real love. They're are of course diamonds in the rough, but who's that lucky to find HER.

I give even ISG members the benefit of the doubt and dont think we really all stereotype. Yes- your correct. I know and ackowledge these facts you express, but I like to be brief in my posts and don't always reflect ALL my feelings about most things. I would be a fool to label people I don't even know.

I'm always pleasently surprised about people. They zig when I expect them to zag. So I will just say that as an Afro-Am blk male, my serious USA relationships have been disaster. Of course they were. because my familys relationships have been disaster.

I had no role models. My other relatives relationships have been disaster. Many of my friends relationships have been disasters. WTF is going on? I know but this is not the place to discuss sociology. It wont change anything anyway. God aint on ISG. I seek pussy, not enlightenment. Actually pussy IS enlightenment. I travel,therefore I f*ck.

It's as I said before man. We all know. Nobody is stupid here. This forum can be summed up here. American women have more options. They get rid of the husband and have him pay child support and alimony if possible. Then move on to the next dick. American men have options.

You marry some sweet heart and stay with her fat ass until death or child support. But men are now killing their wives! This s*it is getting crazy! Fox news thinks they are providing a service,(esp with all those model news women?). FOX is full of shit ...sex sells and they are around to reprt on your descresions.

As Chris Rock said,,,men are as faithful as their options. That means if the USA wasnt watching, he would fuc* who he wanted when he wanted and not be a married pussy that will divorce eventually like EDDIE M.

Women we bang in the rest of the world don't have the same options. You think Iran women give the men shit! Fuck no...those cunts are in check.

It's about power. I saw a article that women have the power in most USA relationships. I know most Christiam women that would dispute thid, but anyway I wont stand for it.
Enough rambling....NG is King of the Castle

Dickhead

07-31-07, 02:41

Wet Nose

07-31-07, 11:22

A good ol' classic from Guns and Roses - for all those of you who had to put up with stuck up self proclaimed princessess....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCDw3TNV6ps

Famous quote: "I had to put her six feet under and I still hear her COMPLA-AIN!!!"

DJ FourMoney

07-31-07, 16:55

There is virtually no jungle nor rainforest in either Argentina or Chile. I avoid English speaking chicas because they think they are worth more money because they speak English, and because they tend to have themselves overrated in general, and because they will want to practice their English but I am the one paying and I want to practice my Spanish. Quite possibly they are worth more money to somebody who can't speak Spanish.

No racial issue here. I got from your posts that you prefer white women to black women and I am just saying that the Latinas with the asses you can set a drink on are the black ones, and are to be found in Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela, and to a lesser extent Uruguay. Argentinean chicks tend to have skinny asses, as a rule, and there are virtually no black Argentineans.

Any "black" person with blue eyes is mixed race.

Okay I got the Latin countries mixed up....

You make excellent points but I thought it was for a different reasons than the simple ones you mentioned, there goes that theory out the window.

I guess that's why there's a GDP and Chica Management thread on both forums....

English speakers shouldn't get extra money, if they want extra money for that skill be a tour guide, work at McDonald's or be a flight attendant.

I still would like to do the BoA-Sao Paulo swing which is an affordable flight...

Dickhead

07-31-07, 22:11

I would say that between Sao Paolo and Buenos Aires you would find every skin shade and every butt type. Don't know about eye color, though.

It is a common misperception that Argentina is a tropical country. In fact only a very, very tiny piece up north lies above the Tropic of Capricorn. Buenos Aires is a four season climate at about the same latitude as Albuquerque, New Mexico. Buenos Aires is only about the halfway point in the country, north-south; in contrast to the US, Argentina is much taller than it is wide. In contrast the vast majority of Brazil is in the tropics.

Dickhead no like tropics. Malaria, yellow fever bad ju ju. Dickhead sweat like pig when fucking even in cold weather. Dickhead no like Brazil cuz gringo need visa. $100 plus two fucking appointments. Dickhead no understand Portuguese. Can read it but sounds like zhh zhh zhh what the fuck.

To get back on topic, my American woman friend who was recently widowed says quite a few of the guys she meets on-line turn her down for no strings attached fucking because they are "looking for a relationship." What's up with THAT?

George90

07-31-07, 22:23

To get back on topic, my American woman friend who was recently widowed says quite a few of the guys she meets on-line turn her down for no strings attached fucking because they are "looking for a relationship." What's up with THAT?

What's up is that they don't believe her!!!!!

She is an American woman!!!!! What US man has ever met a US woman offering sex with 'no strings attached'????? NONE OF US!!!!!!

Remember: There is NO FREE SEX!!!!! Even if she swears it is 'free' in the short-run, she will change her mind and it will become EXPENSIVE sex in the long-run!

Dickhead

07-31-07, 22:26

Not this gal. I always tell her she is just like a man, only with a kunt. Plus she pays her own way (drinks, etc.) She is kind of a b@tch, though.

Big Bob 7

08-01-07, 05:57

That is why I choose to visit Europe first and will go back before I ever go to South America. That might sound crazy to some of you, but I value an English speaking woman and unlike other parts of the world, the price doesn't go up just because they can communicate with you.

Yes some of the exploits of members bangin cuties in the bushes of South America sounds inviting but I'm not that adventurous yet - :D

I just finished fucking a 21 year old mulata here in Cali, Colombia. She was about 5 ft tall with the PERFECT face and body!!!She sucked my cock for about 20 minutes and then jumped on top in cowgirl and rocked my world finally finishing in missionary with her lactating titties bouncing from one side of the room to the other. This cost me a total of $30USD. The last time I took a girl to the movies in the U.S. it costs me $30USD FOR THE MOVIE and some snacks. The whole date cost about $120 bucks and I got nada. My last girlfriend in Quito, Ecuador was from Germany. Our first date was at a place called Crepes and Waffles in the Quicentro Mall. It costs me $35 bucks for lunch only. She then went into a boutique store and spent $250 on ONE outfit. (Thank God she did this with her money!!!)I think that I'm going to keep wandering around here in the bushes for a little bit longer.

KnickFan

08-01-07, 20:31

Any "black" person with blue eyes is mixed race.Well No and Yes.

No because there is the capacity for African genes (where we all came from) to create light eyes - or any other various combo of feature.

Yes because it is theorized that the alleles (version of a gene) for blue eyes or green eyes did not develop probably until our African originators left the country to populate the rest of the world. This allele only made into the African population when these "foreigners" returned and inserted this allele into the African population. Then it still took two Africans who carried this allele recessively to mate and both pass this allele (25% of the time). This is how Africans can get blue or green eyes. This is much more common in American blacks than Africans since there has been significantly more race mixing in this country.

Capt Ajax

08-02-07, 00:08

Why any guy would pay a woman that looks like this is beyond my comprehension?? Are American men so desperate for pussy??

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/ers/386796769.html

George90

08-02-07, 03:47

Why any guy would pay a woman that looks like this is beyond my comprehension?? Are American men so desperate for pussy??

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/ers/386796769.html

Yes! Some men have been brainwashed into believing that something is wrong with them for not being attracted to Mo'Nique sized women.

Some are freaks who are just into BBWs.

Sometimes these Craig's List ads are fake. It may be someone wanted to get even with another by posted a fugly photo and putting their phone number or email with it.

Doctor_Skank

08-02-07, 03:52

Why any guy would pay a woman that looks like this is beyond my comprehension?? Are American men so desperate for pussy??

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/ers/386796769.html

Cant blame a girl for trying... but damn, nobody should pay for THAT.

Capt Ajax

08-02-07, 04:34

Cant blame a girl for trying... but damn, nobody should pay for THAT.

My point exactly.....anyone can pick up a woman that looks like her, just about anywhere.

Bnlee2

08-02-07, 06:18

Why any guy would pay a womaLn that looks like this is beyond my comprehension?? Are American men so desperate for pussy??

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/ers/386796769.htmlI guess some guys likes to get alot for their money. They are probably saying that "I got a bargain for this. Only pennies for the pound"

Looking at the size of her negligee. I could fit atleast three asian spinners in it. All three would still weigh less that that monster.

I think that girl in atlanta must dine on fast food several times a day.

Luvulooongtime

08-02-07, 06:50

Like my grandpa told me when I was young: "marry a fat one, she'll be warm in the winter and shady in the summer. ". LOL. Seriously, I think it has to be fake, no one would pay for that unless they have a fat fettish.

Capt Ajax

08-02-07, 11:24

saw this classification of american men visiting brazil and thought i'd post it here.

the various types of gringo men of brazil

the young black *****chaser: this guy does not speak much portuguese, perhaps drooled like a baby watching the snoop dawg or jarule video, heard how there is latina pussy to be had for cheap, and jumps on the plane to "do" rio with his posse. he is not the brightest guy on the block, promptly ends up in front of help disco, and thinks the putas who give him love are representative of all brazilian women. very clueless about brazilian racial hierarchies, how his black ass would be treated if he didn´t have gringo status & money, and rarely ventures out of the *****house triangle that is composed of help, his hotel, and the various terma *****houses rep001tered throughout the city. adventurous ones will travel to salvador. does not realize how many *****s in rio have stds nor does he care.

the old retired white guy: these guys are usually found living on the coast of brazil. some had not-so-successful lives in the u.s. and escaped to brazil hoping (praying) to god that young brazilian women will not care about the fact that they are old, fat, and balding. they partake mostly in prostitutes, but many run out of money and resort to preying on tourists and sex tourists to make a living. their portuguese, despite years in-country, is still not very good and they speak it with a lousy accent. some are found running small internet cafes in tourist areas. sooner or later, they find a woman to marry and-or have a child with, if only to secure a permanent visa.

the young struggling teacher: these are younger americans and canadians who come down to brazil for a variety of reasons, enjoy the fact that they are treated "special" by the local brazilians, and decide to live in-country and teach (usually english). they struggle for realis, augmenting their income by giving private lessons. their portuguese is usually pretty good, because they are young and motivated. however, their access to the finer things in life (and yes, money talks here in brazil) is very limited. they typically teach in the north of brazil (anywhere north of sao paulo) because they are utterly ignored in the south, where being a white caucasian holds no value and they are treated like anyone else. these guys enjoy the attention they get being a white gringo in a land of brown people, have likely overstayed their tourist visa, and are working illegally. mostly though, they are here because of the brazilian girls.

the sao paulo business man - ex-pat: these are guys who come to sao paulo on short-business trips, or get transferred to sp by their respective companies. they are typically old, arrogant, fat, and ugly. however, they have money, and this guarantees them a sheltered existence in sao paulo filled with ex-pat gatherings, nice restaurants, and work...lots of work. they like sao paulo because they can frequent the *****houses after a long day of work, but are sad because they can´t exactly pick up a lot of normal women with their limited portuguese skills. prime example: the head of gm, that´s right general motors, for brazil a few years back. arrived in sao paulo, rented a gigantic house, met a local hooker, and put her up in a rented condo as his love slave until he was transferred of the country. my access to sao paulo gossip comes directly from my brazilian lawyer, who has loads of stories to tell.

the old black *****chaser: these guys are young black *****chasers, but now older and wiser. they now understand the difference between *****s and normal brazilian girls, are enrolled in some type of portuguese class back home, and dream about buying a place in rio or salvador to retire in. they try to expand their interest of brazil into other areas, such as pan-africanism in salvador, capoeira, bossa nova, bahian religious ceremonies, brazilian politics etc to cover the fact that deep down inside, it is their chase for brazilian pussy that drives them.

the mormon - christian missionary: these guys had no idea where brazil was before they were assigned for their missions. the mormon guys are white guys usually from utah, fulfilling their 2 year missions, and are found walking around with white shirts and ties on the streets of cities throughout brazil. their portuguese gets pretty good cuz they´re always trying to covert people, but they cannot date or have sex for their entire mission. as a result, they become a surly bunch, and find solace in hanging out with each other and drinking orange juice. the christian missionaries have no such barrier, and in the name of god and jesus christ, end up seducing a local brazilian girl. they promptly then marry her so they can pound into her bunda like the rest of the men here.

the young white *****chaser: these guys are american, italian, and german guys in their late 20s or 30s who come chasing girls. they want to seduce the regular brazilian girls, but since they only stay for a few weeks or at most, a month, at a time, and have limited portuguese skills, they end up side by side with the young black *****chaser and the old black *****chaser in the putarias. italians and germans are typically found in the nordeste. americans found in rio and the sudeste. some of these guys, benefitting from their youth, will crack into the regular brazilian girl scene. the losers will promptly marry the first regular girl who shows interested in them and try to take her back home on a fiancee visa.

Jelly Donut

08-03-07, 21:57

Furiouz

08-04-07, 02:52

"Young women in New York and several of the nation’s other largest cities who work full time have forged ahead of men in wages, according to an analysis of recent census data."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Hmm. I read an article that near 60% of college students are women. I believe that would be the major contributor to the swing in earnings. Plus the fact that when it comes to being a single man or woman, it's more expensive to be a single man. Dates, flowers, gifts, etc, etc...we are always expected to pony up.
I used to live with two girl roommates. These girls got asked out at least 3 times a day. So they never ever went hungry.
I am glad women are making more money. Now they can be me a freaking drink!

CBGBConnisur

08-04-07, 04:12

Jelly Donut

08-04-07, 10:53

I used to live with two girl roommates. These girls got asked out at least 3 times a day. So they never ever went hungry.
I am glad women are making more money. Now they can be me a freaking drink!

Yes. That is an interesting thing, since even if women are earning more than men there's still an expectation that a stand-up guy will treat. I blew so much money in the 90's that way. Foolish little jelly donut.

Sasha Coffee

08-09-07, 04:18

It amazes me that in the year 2007 there are still women that believe a man must pay. Thats why there are so many rich women out there. They get to save all their money and the poor old man gets to spends his. This is sexism in reverse isn't it.

That Asshole

08-09-07, 08:56

Feminist -"aids" connection

The first half of the story is posted here:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=628081&postcount=630

I have nothing against women, except that they are stupid. This fact has always been known through the centuries and just now seems to have been forgotten. They had been kept out of politics and leadership for good reason: because they tend to be screamy, emotional and illogical in thinking. None of which attributes is desirable in a responsible position. But hey, this is how we like them to be. If you say there is a "woman" who is logical, clear headed and grounded in mind I say that it is "Not A Woman!". Only a "lookalike".

However, it was desirable that the people in low-level leadership become stupid, therefore will believe anything, scream when they are told to and pay when they are told to. They constitute more 51% of voting citizenship in just about any country and thereby they have "controlling majority" in issues and affairs of the State. They are easily led - astray or anywhere.

This is where money lies. This is how a totally stupid "aids" hysteria has started, not to talk about the others such as "terrorism, cancer, drugs, etc". This is "business". On such a large scale that we even have trouble to comprehend it. Quite simply, anything can be sold to women, as long as it is presented in an "emotional package".

So, "feminism" had to be, in order to create and amass wealth for some few. Women do not question, do not reason. They just scream and pay when they are told to. We all know it. Here you got "aids" (please use lower case!). Nobody has seen it, nobody touched it. It's like a ghost. We really don't know, just believe. Like any religion.

The Catholic Church needs "believers" to exist. They have never seen it, never touched it but they believe it. Millions and millions do. Is the "aids industry" on firmer foundations than the Catholic Church?

In fact even on weaker. The writer affirms that the "industry of fear" was created on the screams and stupidity of women in leadership. That is "the controlling majority" in the affairs of the State. Just like any company is controlled by the majority shareholders, so is the State of US. And these "shareholders" are the most easily controllable from above. What you get....?

Therefore, feminism had to be and is viciously defended and propagated even further. As it is now viciously defended and propagated. But not for the "good of the women" unfortunately. But rather to make the "screams of fear" louder from the 51% majority shareholders and thereby making the paypackets of a few high enough grow proportionally.

So much for "aids" and "terrrorism" and the others. You can see, it all was solidly built on female stupidity. No think. Just scream and cry for protection.

Well guys, I have a question:

"Can we please abolish the 19th amendment?"

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxix.html
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/amendment_19/

Why not? What would happen?

Opebo

08-09-07, 16:30

Well guys, I have a question:

"Can we please abolish the 19th amendment?"

Why not? What would happen?

Well, for one thing Bush and the Republicans would have won by even bigger margins.

Dickhead

08-09-07, 19:28

i think all countries should have women as heads of state. there would be no more long, cruel wars like vietnam and iraq. there would only be short, funny wars like the falkland islands and the spanish-american war. there would be lots of hissy fits, and maybe some hair pulling, but fewer wars that are expensive and cause currency devaluations which lead to more expensive pussy for travelers and expats. sure, seeing your president crying on national tv would be disconcerting, but you'd get used to it. plus they would not appear on television as often since there would be many "bad hair days" where they would not go out in public. add that to the days when they "had nothing to wear" and you would see a lot fewer boring speeches and press conferences.

Rock Dog

08-09-07, 23:56

Instead of president Bush, we could have a president.... with a bush.
Unless she shaves. :D

Rock

George90

08-10-07, 17:45

Greysouthern

08-11-07, 22:55

I've been trawling through your posts for a day or two. I hope you don't mind my posting a comment - I get these urges sometimes. These are mostly 'out of context', in some cases responding to points and posts made months ago but you might find them of some interest. If I have any more 'profound insights' I'll let you know.

India/China/Russia etc going to overtake the USA in the next 15 years.

Very unlikely. The people making these pronouncements are either doom-mongering journalists wanting a shock headline or companies trying to sell you shares in Indian/Chinese/Russian companies. The USA certainly permits some curious accounting practices which allow companies to make themselves appear more profitable than they actually are and, like all other advanced countries, spends far more than is sensible on welfare, state bureaucracy and the legal system none of which contribute a penny to the treasury.

Most of these problems could be sorted out fairly easily and quickly and would be if the situation became serious.

Manufacturing in the future is likely to be undertaken in fully automated plants with no human worforce at all. It's already possible to do this technically it just isn't economical yet but the (direct and indirect) costs of labour are always rising and the costs of machinery, especially electronic machinery, are steadily falling so the 'crossover' will eventually be reached. When that happens it will be economical to build manufacturing plants in the USA and Western Europe again because labour costs will not enter into the calculation. Since the construction of these plants would have a favourable effect on balance of payments and such governments are bound to be strongly supportive.

They're going to abolish prostitution.

You mean they're going to try. In the same way that they tried and still try to prevent the importation and distribution of drugs. We all know what a brilliant success that's been. Most of these characters in government are simply out of their depth. Many appear to be living in a state of delusion in which they imagine that talking about doing something is the same as doing it. They have experience of drafting laws but none of enforcing them. I can imagine police officers banging their heads on the wall wondering how on earth they're going to make any of this work.
The most important qualification for anyone involved in government is an understanding of the limitations of government. That's something that these people lack.

Adaptation leads to counter-adaptation. If the state changes its attitude to prostitution then prostitution will change. Prostitution could do with changing, at present it's badly organized, needlessly dangerous and contains too many parasitic middlemen (pimps and 'madams') who simply push up the price whilst contributing nothing. Better organized prostitution would be more attractive to more women. More women would go into prostitution, probably mostly as part-timers and 'casuals'. An increase in the supply of prostitutes would probably depress prices and improve quality.

Divorce laws are biased in the woman's favour.

It certainly looks that way but actually divorce laws are biased in the state's favour - the fact that women benefit from this bias is purely coincidental. I'm not familiar with the history of the development of divorce laws in North America but I imagine it follows a similar pattern to their development in England. Originally (in the 1960's) we had "clean break" divorces where neither party was under any further obligation to the other and the former husband did not have to support his former wife for the rest of her life. This didn't last long because it proved that many of these former wives were incapable of supporting themselves and became permanently dependent on state welfare. This was very expensive. In order to reduce the welfare payments the governments decided that it would be a lot cheaper for them to force the former husband to continue to support his former wife very much as if he were still married to her so this is what they did. That's why we are where we are now.
As I mentioned above however adaptation always leads to counter-adaptation. The male counter-adaptation was the entirely predictable one of not getting married. It's taken 20-30 years for this to have a noticeable effect on socieities whose 'leaders' are now worried about low rates of reproduction, especially within the financially productive (i.e. net tax paying) sections of the population, housing shortages and other entirely predictable consequences of making divorces easy and financially attractive for the female population. This is a mess the political, legal and bureaucratic establishment created by not looking ahead and anticipating how people would use the laws. As I noted earlier these people are simply out of their depth.

Female behaviour in taking advantage of these laws is entirely predictable. Suppose a law were introduced which forced a company to pay its employees 80% of their salaries even if they never turned up for work and to keep on paying 80% even if they resigned and went elsewhere. What proportion of the work force do you you think would bother going in ? Not many I'd guess - and those who were conscientious would just end up being penalized by having to work harder to make up for the absentees. Something similar has happened in marriage. The law allows women 80% of the material benefits of marriage without having to do anything in return. Many women were bound to see this as an irresistibly attractive proposition and take full advantage.

Actions have consequences however and the first law of economics is not the law of elastic demand as most economists would tell you. The first law is that you don't get something for nothing. There are no exceptions to this. If you think you've got away with it and it's cost you nothing beware - you're likely to find that payment has only been deferred and, as is usually the case when you defer payment, you'll end up paying more.

These legal arrangements may seem like a real gain for women at the moment, and so they are in the short run but in the long run a lot of women are going to pay a horrendous price. Some of them are just starting to pay it now. They'll be paying for it for the rest of their lives and it will just get worse with age. There is no way out, no way back.

For all their legal advantages I would not change places with them.

Divorce means that a lot of girls have been molested by mother's boyfriend and that's why they're peculiar.

Possibly. More probably however is that divorce means that a lot of girls have been brought up in an almost entirely female environment with almost no opportunity to interact intimately and safely with adult males during their formative years. In other words they never got the chance to play with daddy. This may sound twee but it appears to be very important to female development. Girls 'practice' on their fathers - I don't mean sexually but socially and emotionally - they find out what works and what doesn't. How he responds to different approaches. In a sense these girls are unwittingly calibrating themselves so that they'll know what to do when dealing with men when they get older. Most women who had a decent amount of contact with their father when they were small tend to be extremely keen on him and regard 'daddy' as the ideal . This is the result of juvenile 'imprinting' - unfortunately this hasn't happened to a lot of females.

High rates of divorce mean that a very large part of the female population has now never had the chance to do this and unfortunately it's something that it appears has to be done at a certain age (around 7-11). If it isn't done at this period then you can never undo the damage or make good the loss. What this all means in practice is that a lot of women haven't got the faintest idea of how to handle men on even the most basic level. They're caught in a trap of their mothers' making and there is no way out.

Depriving girls of paternal contact has not only been cruel to the father it's also been an absolute disaster for the daughter.

Another possible factor is contraception. Before contraception families were large and the significance of this is that almost every girl would have brothers. Brothers aren't as good as fathers for 'practice' but they're a lot better than nothing, especially if they're older brothers. There is usually a very noticeable difference between women who have brothers and women who haven't.

Yet another possible factor is quality of housing. A large family living in a small house live on top of each other. Like it or not you're soon going to find out what the opposite sex looks like without clothes on. This kind of enforced intimacy knocks the corners off. You either get used to it or go mad. Most people get used to it. A small family living in a large house can live largely separate lives, they need never come into contact with each other unless they want to. They get used to having things their own way. You can see how this might affect mental development and 'formation of character'.

Women outnumber men in college/degree courses.

Yes, but in what subjects ? Mostly in soft subjects that are virtually useless in the labour market or worse than useless in the case of the notorious 'women's studies', sociology, psychology and the like - subjects which are not only of no conceivable use to most employers but will actually set alarm bells ringing in many.
Journalism, publishing, broadcasting and, of course, that great sponge "the state" will soak up a fair number but there's probably at least as much overmanning (or more commonly overwomanning) in white collar employments today as there was amongst blue collar 30 years ago. Layer upon layer of clerical, secretarial, administrative, managerial and supervisory staff most of whose activities contribute absolutely nothing to the performance of a company or to the national economy, many of whom are a gross burden not only because they fail to contribute and are indeed a net drain but because they are actually obstructive. There isn't much further scope for industry or commerce to make savings with further blue collar cuts, many have already cut too far and are actually undermanned with no spare capacity which causes problems if circumstances vary. The only way for companies to make further savings is by cutting white collar employment. Unless they're suicidal they'll cut in areas which don't contribute to profitability. Secretarial / clerical staff are the obvious targets. There are far too many of them (just look at the size of the office buildings) and most of them are women. Female employment prospects may not be as good in the future as they have been for the last 20 years or so.

Another factor is that some employers now see female employees as being more trouble than they're worth. They take more time off, they're likelier to get sick especially with vague neuro-psychological problems like "depression" which are not only virtually impossible to prove but also virtually impossible to disprove and which may drag on for years. They get pregnant and you have to provide maternity leave at your expense and the other staff have to work harder to cover for them. They're a nuisance and a possible legal minefield, they're inflexible as regards working hours and so on and so forth. Many of them are obviously just playing at it until they can find a suitably wealthy husband- they have no serious interest in the job. This doesn't go down too well with employers. They tend not to mention it because they don't want to be accused of sexism but they do think it.

Enough for the time being. I've worn myself out.

Dickhead

08-13-07, 02:09

In the USA, women currently outnumber men in law, medicine, and accounting, among other "soft subjects." Don't know what it is like in the UK but the thread is on American Women.

Jelly Donut

08-13-07, 03:16

This is an interesting article on the dynamics of divorce and real estate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/fashion/12divorce.html?em&ex=1187064000&en=1255f7e73e20fec3&ei=5087%0A

Greysouthern

08-13-07, 20:41

In the USA, women currently outnumber men in law, medicine, and accounting, among other "soft subjects." Don't know what it is like in the UK but the thread is on American Women.Women may outnumber men in the courses/professions you mention but none of them are exactly productive in the sense of making net contributions to the national economy are they?

You only have so many accoutants because of ludicrously over-complex tax laws and so many lawyers because of an orgy of legislative activity over the past 40 years. My contention would be that many of these professions (I don't know about medicine but I wouldn't be surprised) are making work for themselves.

It doesn't alter the fact that most of the BS courses in the US are packed with women and that BS degrees constitute the majority of those granted.

Another thing I should have mentioned is the pretty obvious decline in academic standards, or "grade inflation" as you call it, which means many of these degrees, even in hard subjects, aren't worth the paper they're written on.

I know the board is about American Women. Unfortunately what affects the US generally affects the rest of the world as well after a short delay so virtually all of this is applicable on both sides of the Atlantic.

George90

08-14-07, 00:01

More probably however is that divorce means that a lot of girls have been brought up in an almost entirely female environment with almost no opportunity to interact intimately and safely with adult males during their formative years. In other words they never got the chance to play with daddy. This may sound twee but it appears to be very important to female development. Girls 'practice' on their fathers - I don't mean sexually but socially and emotionally - they find out what works and what doesn't. How he responds to different approaches. In a sense these girls are unwittingly calibrating themselves so that they'll know what to do when dealing with men when they get older. Most women who had a decent amount of contact with their father when they were small tend to be extremely keen on him and regard 'daddy' as the ideal . This is the result of juvenile 'imprinting' - unfortunately this hasn't happened to a lot of females.

High rates of divorce mean that a very large part of the female population has now never had the chance to do this and unfortunately it's something that it appears has to be done at a certain age (around 7-11). If it isn't done at this period then you can never undo the damage or make good the loss. What this all means in practice is that a lot of women haven't got the faintest idea of how to handle men on even the most basic level. They're caught in a trap of their mothers' making and there is no way out.

Depriving girls of paternal contact has not only been cruel to the father it's also been an absolute disaster for the daughter.

I agree strongly with this. I have noticed that the 'calmest' and most reasonable women were always those with good father/daughter relations. The women whose parents went through divorces, their fathers left, and their mothers spent years complaining about the ex to their daughters are the 'crazies'.

I remember one lady I tried to date who had a great relationship with her father (and mother). She had grown up hearing her parents make love and was looking for a similar relationship for herself. It turned out she had other issues that made a relationship impossible, but she was not a manhater.

Another lady I was only friends with while a college student, had grown up ina divorced household. Her father went and married another woman in South America. She rarely saw him. The divorce put her mother into poverty and the mother started to drink. This woman and her brother grew up in material deprivation with an emotionally absent mother (she was drunk most of the time) and an absent father. She was a nice girl, but had serious issues about men generally.

George90

08-14-07, 00:20

Women outnumber men in college/degree courses.

Yes, but in what subjects ? Mostly in soft subjects that are virtually useless in the labour market or worse than useless in the case of the notorious 'women's studies', sociology, psychology and the like - subjects which are not only of no conceivable use to most employers but will actually set alarm bells ringing in many.
Journalism, publishing, broadcasting and, of course, that great sponge "the state" will soak up a fair number but there's probably at least as much overmanning (or more commonly overwomanning) in white collar employments today as there was amongst blue collar 30 years ago. Layer upon layer of clerical, secretarial, administrative, managerial and supervisory staff most of whose activities contribute absolutely nothing to the performance of a company or to the national economy, many of whom are a gross burden not only because they fail to contribute and are indeed a net drain but because they are actually obstructive. There isn't much further scope for industry or commerce to make savings with further blue collar cuts, many have already cut too far and are actually undermanned with no spare capacity which causes problems if circumstances vary. The only way for companies to make further savings is by cutting white collar employment. Unless they're suicidal they'll cut in areas which don't contribute to profitability. Secretarial / clerical staff are the obvious targets. There are far too many of them (just look at the size of the office buildings) and most of them are women. Female employment prospects may not be as good in the future as they have been for the last 20 years or so.

I work in education. Women outnumber men accross the board execpt in engineering and computer science. The reason has nothing to do with 'soft' or 'hard' courses. It has everything to do with college preparation.

For a few decades now, elementary and high schools have been 'girl-friendly' and 'boy-hostile'. The emphasis has been on getting girls to perform better in math and science and to particupate more in class. The female teachers have done this by making boys shut up. In addition, what used to be normal boy behavior has morphed into a disease called ADHD. Any boy who behaves naturally gets labeled and drugged. Many spend those learning years high on Ritalin or Prozac, others drop out and work in construction. The bottom line is that girls get better grades, perform better on the SATs, and get accepted into college BEFORE boys do. Thus, there are more women than men in almost all academic disciplies of undergradute programs. The situation is different in graduate schools. There, men still outnumber women.

Dickhead

08-14-07, 00:45

I work in higher education, and Greyshorts doesn't know squat. The demand for accountants in particular in recent years has zero to do with tax laws. It has to do with all the frauds that occurred at the corporate level, and with legislation such as Sarbanes-Oxley that is completely unremotherfuckingrelated to taxes. Women actually make better accountants. You give the average guy a pile of one dollar bills to count, telling him there are a thousand and he is to verify this. He will count up to 85 or so and say, "Shit they are right so far and it is only a dollar so let's go pound a few brews." The woman will be fearful of mistakes and will count the pile three times. They are more conscientious.

Women are also better doctors. I always try to go to women doctors, and dentists. I go to a male doctor and I say, "Doc, my arm hurts when I move it like this." He says, "Don't move it like that," and walks out of the room. I go to a male dentist and I say, "That hurts like a motherfucker" and he says "I will jam a big painful needle full of more novacaine in you so your face will be numb for three days." The female dentist says, "I am sorry; I will try to be more gentle."

So let's give credit where credit is due.

Jelly Donut

08-14-07, 01:12

Women may outnumber men in the courses/professions you mention but none of them are exactly productive in the sense of making net contributions to the national economy are they?

Running with your thinking, no one is making a real contribution to society and economy unless they have a job like "blacksmith" or they hunt whales using hand-thrown harpoons off the tips of small wooden boats. There's honest work for you (provided no whales are actually harmed in the process). Hardly anyone has made a net contribution worth a tinker's damn since John Maynard Keynes pointed out you could keep everyone busy by digging holes, filing them back in and then digging them again.

Rock Dog

08-17-07, 02:27

Who even cares if they are "making a contribution to society"? On an individual level, it doesn't mean squat. What really counts is how much are they making, what are they doing with that money.... and how does this affect male female relations (and society in general)?

The thing I've noticed is that these women, by and large, still tend to want a guy who makes the same or more than she does. The result? Lots and lots of "power couples". The guy and the wife both earning six-figure incomes and raking it in. This doesn't surprise me one bit if I think about how greedy and materialistic people are these days.

My advice for anyone thinking about getting involved with such a woman... don't. I've known a few and most of them are selfish, overly assertive and just plain high on themselves. They make lousy wives/girlfriend/whatever and it's just not worth it. With the ways things are these days what with lawyers and high divorce rates and AW attitudes, marriage is somethng to be avoided at all costs.

Someday, the whole idea of marriage needs to be completely re-thought. A far better idea would be somthing more along the lines of a business contract. You could negotiate a whole bunch of terms, clauses and conditions that could be reviewed and agreed to by BOTH parties BEFOREHAND. If things don't work out.... well it would all be worked out according to the terms of the contract.

I really think this would be a better way of doing things. I also imagine the main opposition would come from women (and those politicians who pander to them for their votes) and religious groups (with their own attendant vote pandering politicians).

Rock

Rock Dog

08-23-07, 00:51

It sounds like a crazy idea, but it occurred to me that sex and crack are very similar in more than one way.

1. Once you've tried it, it's nearly impossible to quit.

2. People (men) are willing pay a lot for it.

3. The dealers (women) know that their customers (men) are "hooked" and therefore willing to put up with all kinds of crap so they can get what they want.

4. In both cases (sex and crack) the dealers tend to have little or no respect for their customers.

5. Generally speaking, the greater the need for sex.... the greater the likelihood that one will get treated like crap. Conversely, someone who has no need is far more likely to get treated wih respect..... maybe even get an offer of a freebie. Like crack dealers, women will sometime put out an offer just to see what kind of reaction they get.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to equate sex with crack. I'm just saying, if you look at it from a certain perspective, there are some interesting similarities.

Rock

Dickhead

08-23-07, 02:11

Certainly sex can be an addictive behavior. Probably many of the frequent posters on this site are sex addicts. I personally I am not but I can see the parallels you are talking about. If you are spending more than you can afford, if it is affecting your work, if you tell yourself you are going stop but you can't, if all your friends think you have a problem, etc., it doesn't matter if it is crack, smack, booze, pussy, on-line poker, whatever. It is an addictive situation.

However, what really puts the power in the hands of those with the pussies is not the addiction factor but the fact that prostitution is illegal in many places. Where I live it is not illegal so the Golden Rule applies. Whoever has the gold, rules. Pussy only has power to the extent that a guy is an idiot. And of course, crack is physically bad for you whereas copious amounts of sex is physically good for you, and decent exercise to boot.

I have a friend who wrote a fairly famous book about the Grateful Dead called "What A Long, Strange Trip It's Been." He wrote it under the name of Lewis Sinclair, although that is not his name. He once told me, "Pussy should be on a rack by the door." Well, here it pretty much is. But pussy isn't a commodity; it's a differentiated product, at least for most people. I would say that if it does become fungible in your mind, that would be a good sign you have a problem. "Lewis" has a crazy ***** of an American GF and is constantly complaining about not being able to get enough sex. He is well into his fifties, and he should just leave the country since he has his book royalties and also Social Security disability from a bad back. But he never will.

But the biggest difference between crack and prostitution is obvious: a hooker can wash her crack and sell it again. Pussy is about the only thing where you can sell it and still have it, as far as I know. Maybe knowledge would be another example if you can figure out how to sell it.

Monger#77

08-23-07, 06:22

Opebo

08-23-07, 08:39

...Hardly anyone has made a net contribution worth a tinker's damn since John Maynard Keynes pointed out you could keep everyone busy by digging holes, filing them back in and then digging them again.

Thanks for quoting one of my personal heros, JD. Better yet keep everyong busy sitting in their office, playing with the internet (like I'm doing now).

But on the topic of American women - I must confess I miss them sometimes over here in Thailand. Why? Better blow jobs.

Rock Dog

08-24-07, 02:41

However, what really puts the power in the hands of those with the pussies is not the addiction factor but the fact that prostitution is illegal in many places.

Pussy only has power to the extent that a guy is an idiot.

Well said DH.

Rock

Capt Ajax

08-24-07, 19:53

....after she refused his sexual advances.

Woman sets fire to ex-husband's penis

Wed Aug 22, 10:53 AM ET

A woman set fire to her ex-husband's penis as he sat naked watching television and drinking vodka, Moscow police said Wednesday.

Asked if the man would make a full recovery, a police spokeswoman said it was "difficult to predict."

The attack climaxed three years of acrimonious enforced co-habitation. The couple divorced three years ago but continued to share a small flat, something common in Russia where property costs are very high.

"It was monstrously painful," the wounded ex-husband told Tvoi Den newspaper. "I was burning like a torch. I don't know what I did to deserve this."

Capt Ajax

08-26-07, 20:58

George90

08-26-07, 23:17

I've just seen this ad on CL and it has me a bit perplexed. Can anyone here deconstruct this ladies mindset. I personally think she's a screw loose from being labeled mentally challenged.

Weathly Older Men Only - w4m - 40

Date: 2007-08-25

Need some extra $$......I'm not looking for young guys...I've have a certain amount to make and I'm done. You must be drug, disease free, discreet, protection required....I'm am not a pro, not a child, so if your looking to play games....keep looking. I am very serious, so if your looking for the same then send me a pic and let's plan a night....I'm not available during the day so if that's the only time your available, then keep looking. I do not care to be with someone who's been with 50 different women either.....Thanks

When I was looking at American women for a serious relationship 12-15 years ago, I ran into LOADS of identical personal ads online from women. The logic was that there were so many more men online than women, that a woman's ad would get SWAMPED with responses. So many that she couldn't possible answer them all given a few years. Women designed their ads to weed out, screen out, and generally turn off men whom the women did not want to deal with. They made up a laundry list of bad qualities of which if a man had any, he should not respond to her ad. If a woman put up a photo and was half-way good looking, that was an effective strategy, though I think only jerks would continue to respond to such ads.

Now, for a prostitute to have such an attitude??????????????? WTF??????

I can't see anyone except psychopathic liars and psychotic murders responding to her ad as you have written it. Clearly, this woman thinks that men look for sex and look for romance using identical standards. Otherwise she would use a different strategy herself for enticing men to her.

George90

08-27-07, 20:58

I am wondering if any men here saw recent ads or PSAs against sexual predators. On TV this morning they were discussing it because a group of men have complained to the FCC about the ads claiming they were prejdiced against men.

The print ad is a picture of a man holding a child's hand with the caption "I just don't feel right when I see them together." There was also a radio spot featuring a woman fretting about whether to report a man as a sexual predator because she saw him with a child.

The group claims that the ads are counter-productive because the number of sexual predators is extremely small compared the number of adult males in the US. Making children afraid of men in general will do more harm then good since they will avoid men in an emergency or fail to be vigilant around abusive women. In addition, they say men will leave, and already have left, professions that deal with working with children, such as coaching, Big Brothers, teaching, or volunteering as scout leaders.

The women's group counters that 97% of convicted child molesters are men so that means men have to be targeted for vigilance. (They don't say whether women are ever arrested for child molestation, even though women have far more access to children than do men.) They also say that innocent men should not be offended by the ads nor limit their contact with children.

This is just the latest. With the IMBRA law, a man can't marry the adult he chooses without suspicion. Now, a man can't be a father to his children or a father figure to others' children without suspicion.

Yogin

08-28-07, 02:19

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OR_BOTTOM_SLAPPING_OROL-?SITE=OREUG&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Did anyone see this story about two Oregon 13 year old boys brought up on adult felony sex abuse charges by a woman prosecutor for participating in "ass slapping day" at school? Everyone was doing it, even the girls. If convicted, they could have been branded for life as "sex offenders" and would have to register with police wherever they may live. Luckily the case was dismissed, but it's an outrage that it went so far.

Were I to apply for a job with children and asked why I wanted the job and were I to say "Because I love children", they'd call the cops on me pronto!

Bango Cheito

08-28-07, 08:51

Rock Dog, truer words have never been spoken on here. I think you hit the nail on the head! Marriage needs to be TOTALLY redefined.

Rock Dog

08-29-07, 02:32

Weathly Older Men Only - w4m - 40

Need some extra $$......I'm not looking for young guys...I've have a certain amount to make and I'm done.

I'm am not a pro, not a child, so if your looking to play games....keep looking.

I'm not available during the day so if that's the only time your available, then keep looking.

OK, I love a challenge.... but this definitely ain't it. Deconstructing the mindset evident in this womans post is easy.

First off, she's 40 and that says a lot about her right there. Next, no wasting time for this gal! She gets right to the point and starts talking about $$$... as in you men have it, and I want some too!

She then states that she isn't "a pro" but then goes on to say she isn't available during the daytime. Sorry boys, no nooners!

This women is what I like to call "a soft-core prostitute". A hard-core pro wants fee for service, with a definite dollar amount charged for various acts performed on a number of clients. Soft-core prostitutes don't take money in direct exchange for sex, they do it in a more 'round-about way and usually with just one guy.... but it still works out to the same thing. Women like this one are often classified as "semi-pro", but I personally feel soft-core prostitute is a more accurate term.

This woman just wants to find some guy to milk $$$ out of. Chances are she's relatively good-looking for her age (that's not saying much though). Or it may be that she just thinks she's still got it. Whatever! She definitley thinks that what she has is good enough that she shouldn't have to work for her money like the rest of us.

It might not make sense that a woman whom we would consider to be a prostitute would place such an ad. But remember, there really is no clear line between hard-core prostitution and all the things girls do to get guys to "be nice to them". There are probably countless women who do some very hookerly(?) things but would never consider themselves to be one.

Rock

Dickhead

08-29-07, 04:34

I am not looking for what this woman is looking for, but if I were looking for someone like her I would want someone who was at least marginally literate and knew a form of punctuation other than ellipses points.

"I've have a certain amount to make"; "I'm am not a pro" (so make an appointment with her, fuck her, don't pay her, then show her the ad she posted?); "If your looking to play games"; "If that's the only time your available," etc., makes me think she is dumber than a bag full of hammers.

So I notice that in America most avowed lesbians are fat and ugly. Here I find many gay and bi and bi-curious women who are quite cute, although none of that interests me. Therefore, my question is:

Do American women get fat and ugly because they are gay and don't care if they are attractive to men, or do they turn to lesbianism because they are too fat and ugly to get a guy? Or, given that most AWs are fat and unfeminine, it doesn't really matter?

And are other lesbians really attracted to fat, ugly women? I mean, I was in the US for the first time in a couple of years recently and among the many nauseating phenomena I noticed was a plethora of lesbian couples, both of whom were so fat and ugly that thinking about them having any form of sex was virtually out of the question. You couldn't even tell who was the rug muncher and who was the clam slammer.

Oh yeah and Rock, if a woman takes money or other material compensation in exchange for sex, she is a prostitute regardless of what she THINKS she is. Some of your posts make me wonder if you have figured that out yet.

George90

08-30-07, 01:54

So I notice that in America most avowed lesbians are fat and ugly. Here I find many gay and bi and bi-curious women who are quite cute, although none of that interests me. Therefore, my question is:

Do American women get fat and ugly because they are gay and don't care if they are attractive to men, or do they turn to lesbianism because they are too fat and ugly to get a guy? Or, given that most AWs are fat and unfeminine, it doesn't really matter?

And are other lesbians really attracted to fat, ugly women? I mean, I was in the US for the first time in a couple of years recently and among the many nauseating phenomena I noticed was a plethora of lesbian couples, both of whom were so fat and ugly that thinking about them having any form of sex was virtually out of the question. You couldn't even tell who was the rug muncher and who was the clam slammer.

Some scientists noticed the same thing you did and are now studying (with federal funding) if there is a link between obesity in women and lesbianism. This was reported in the popular media a few months ago.

I suspect that many of these women turn to other women for sex because they cannot get the quality men they feel they deserve due to their obesity. Only desperate men with few or NO other options (unemployed convicts for example) would want them. What I don't understand is why they don't pay for it like men do. There are many European women who pay Black men in the Caribbean for sex.

A question for you, DH, where is 'here'? What country to you live in?

Yogin

08-30-07, 05:59

There are a growing number of AW who go to the Caribbean and pay for sex. But you'll never see these sex tourists prosecuted under our wonderful legal system, as they are now doing to American men.

Yes there's certainly a sizeable (haha) contingent of fat lesbians here. But I personally know a number of slender ones who are as understandably repelled by them as anyone else would be, and refuse to date them.

I agree that it's mighty difficult to even tell who's a lesbian in the US these days. Half of all women over 25 sure fit the mold: slovenly dress, ugly short haircut, unfeminine demeanor & manners, and obese as all hell. No wonder we can't tell them apart!

Sasha Coffee

08-30-07, 06:52

Reading the add that woman placed and reading the responses. I have to laugh.

Obviously this women is not to bright. Thats a certanity.

My particular perspective is. She is just found herself left by her husband who she never sexually satisfied for a 25 year old dolly bird that will give him head. She is stuck at home with two teenagers to care for a mortgage to pay (she took him to the cleaners for the house and car) She can't afford to go out and meet a man because she has that mortgage and she hasn't taken care of her fat ass or hair for 20 years since she got married. So she has decided that she will advertise for one ( i think its easier than the chat room for her) What she expects is this man to take over paying the mortgage, she doesn't want him to have any kids or at least they have to be fully independent. In return for him paying the mortgage (she's not a pro so she wants him to pay the bills not give her cash directly) she will give him occassional sex and cook an occassional bad meal. While she sits there in her 80's dress with 80's perm and complains about her kids and promises herself that she will start a diet tomorrow.

I bet she might even offer him a cheap bottle of wine sometimes, although you might find that it will always be the last of the bottle. Probably the bottle that her other divorced friend bought over two days ago for a drink.

Rock Dog

08-31-07, 02:26

Oh yeah and Rock, if a woman takes money or other material compensation in exchange for sex, she is a prostitute regardless of what she THINKS she is. Some of your posts make me wonder if you have figured that out yet.

I figured it out a lonnnngg time ago. Not only that, I've also spent a lot of mental effort analyzing many different aspects of this concept (prostitution).

For me, it pretty much comes down to "how does one define prostitution in the first place?" Everyone has their own idea of what it means to be one. Some definitions are pretty narrow ie. the gal on the corner with the leather boots and a mini skirt. Some definitions are so broad and all-inclusive as to be useless..... as in anyone doing anything for money that they wouldn't do for free. Shit, that's almost everyone I know!

Women, no surprise, are hyper aware of what they can and cannot do if they don't want to get labelled. That's why I came up with the soft-core term. I think it makes a pretty good description for a multitude of women who basically are prostitutes, and have the pro attitude, but still want to be thought of as being nice..... whatever that means.

It seems like these days, women are raised up to be wh*res. Especially by their parents. The basic message, said in the most roundabout way, seems to be "Your pussy is more valuable than platinum, you must never give it out willy-nilly.... for it is the most valuable, special thing in the world."
The end result is that, when it comes to sex, most women do seem to have a "what's in it for me" attitude. And those are the kind of women that inspired me to come up with my "soft-core" definition. It's really the same thing, just some minor difference in the details.

Rock

ps. as far as lesbians go..... if they're fat/homely I do not care. If they're both even halfway good-looking, I wanna watch! :D

Chocha Monger

08-31-07, 03:24

Yogin

08-31-07, 20:19

...these days, women are raised up to be wh*res. Especially by their parents. The basic message, said in the most roundabout way, seems to be "Your pussy is more valuable than platinum, you must never give it out willy-nilly.... for it is the most valuable, special thing in the world."..

That's such a f'd up message. Their pussy (and sex itself) has been commodified. This is evident across the spectrum, from religious retards (Bush spent a billion on failed abstinance education from Texas Governor through today) who espouse virginity pledges until marriage to feminists and other so-called "liberals".

How insulting and dehumanizing, to tell a young woman that her greatest asset is her intact hymen. This mentality is infinitely more harmful to women than non-coersive prostitution or pornography, favorite targets of conservatives & liberals alike.

Thank you Sasha for the contribution of your humorous and wise perspective by deconstructing the cryptic ho'.

That MSN article accurately reflects mainstream AW attitude & expectation.

Rock Dog

09-01-07, 17:11

Chocha,
I got about halfway through that article before I gave up. This woman is the worst example of AW attitude. She openly admits to the hypocrisy of it all...... and then continues on in a feeble attempt to justify her hypocrisy with some cheesy phoney romantic whitewash.

Oh, I know I'm not supposed to be like that, seeing as how I'm the badass of all feminists. But when a guy pays, it's just so romantic!
Um, yeah sure.... bullshit. These ho's just want to have it both ways.

One good thing about their attitude though, they're easy to spot. So, if you find yourself on a date with one of these "special little angels", you can get rid of her effortlessly (and cheaply!) by going Dutch.

Yogin, I agree with what you said. Also, the only reason for a womans virginity to be such a big deal is because of the insecurity of those men who are scared of a woman with some experience.

Rock

CBGBConnisur

09-02-07, 20:57

That's such a f'd up message. Their pussy (and sex itself) has been commodified. This is evident across the spectrum, from religious retards (Bush spent a billion on failed abstinance education from Texas Governor through today) who espouse virginity pledges until marriage to feminists and other so-called "liberals".

How insulting and dehumanizing, to tell a young woman that her greatest asset is her intact hymen. This mentality is infinitely more harmful to women than non-coersive prostitution or pornography, favorite targets of conservatives & liberals alike.

Thank you Sasha for the contribution of your humorous and wise perspective by deconstructing the cryptic ho'.

That MSN article accurately reflects mainstream AW attitude & expectation.
That is a general Western notion, it not only applies to AWs but to Canadian, Anglo, and many Northwestern European women. In many places in the world the traditional social structure of male female relationships still exist but even in these places its changing.

Sasha Coffee

09-03-07, 03:17

I'm not really into spouting off about equality and female rights. In fact I get so sick of listening to bra burning feminists I could puke.

but to tell a woman that her virginity is the most important thing she can offer is quite ridiculous. That reeks of religious zealots and reminds me of our very backwards forefathers. Surely in this day and age to be or not be a virgin is totally a personal decision. For both males and females.

For governments to be spouting off the value of virginity I have this mental picture of middle east where women are dehumanised and virginity and men rule supreme. I wonder isn't this what we are all fighting for the rights of the human being through out the middle east. Isn't this why we are trying to topple dictatorships. Maybe Mr Bush might like to bring virginity tests for newly married girls and female circumisicion.

Really and truly it is time governments got on with ruling countries not bedrooms.

Meat Loaf

09-03-07, 03:23

I know this may not be proper forum for this comment, but who wants to bang a virgin. She'll hurt my dick trying to get in maybe tear skin. She won't know how to pop that cooch. She won't have any coochie-control. It just sounds horrible. What does sound good are 40 and 50 year old divorced women or30 year old single moms. Haha. Just my aside.

Furiouz

09-03-07, 05:31

Prostitutes exchange sexual favors in return for material gain or other benefits. Of course, that puts wives and girlfriends in the same category with hookers the only difference being the number of clients serviced.

Here is an interesting article from the hypocritical view of an unrepentant AW feminist who seeks to justify why she should have her cake and damned well eat it too.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/HomeMortgageSavings/WhoPays.aspx#pageTopAchor

This one of the most fucked up things I have read in a long time. Basically, we have to pay for a women's time and affection, is that what I am reading? The archaic version of romance needs to be revamped, if women can break out of their traditional roles, then so can men. She is basically saying she is a ho that can be bought.
The irony.

Bango Cheito

09-03-07, 19:47

"Prehistorically, man provided food and shelter to show a woman he was interested."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHH

That has to be the most egregious example of revisionist history I have EVER heard. Does she think he held the door of the cave open for her too? :P

Meat Loaf

09-03-07, 20:01

Prostitutes exchange sexual favors in return for material gain or other benefits. Of course, that puts wives and girlfriends in the same category with hookers the only difference being the number of clients serviced. What's even worse Chocha Monger is that wives and girlfriends also ration the pussy even though you paid, are paying, and will pay in the future via the court system. Mongers keep Mongering!

Chase

09-03-07, 21:36

"Prehistorically, man provided food and shelter to show a woman he was interested."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHThat was hilarious. I also found it telling that she couldn't bring herself to say; "Historically, man provided food and shelter..."

Furiouz

09-03-07, 23:27

Prehistorically, that same man was banging about 6 other chicks at the same time. Probably a lot at the same time.
If women want to use antiquated notions to make their points, then so can we.

Yogin

09-04-07, 05:43

And I'm sure cavemen were far more brutal with their mates than modern men are.
Some anthropologists claim that cavewomen had just as much reason and need to be wildly unfaithful as the men did. Evolutionary-based, it seems (Anatomy of Love, Helen Fisher Ph.D).

Saw a US "reality" show tonite called "Wife Swap". No it's not in any way lewd. One family portrayed made me sick: the mom & daughter were lazy, ungrateful, greedy, and totally disrespectful to dad, who appeared to have his balls snipped. He waits on them hand and foot in addition to supporting them and their extravagant tastes, isn't allowed to sleep in his own bed (that's for mom & daughter), never tells them "no", and is "allowed" to indulge his one true joy of golf only once a year. I think he's a step-dad and is footing the bill for his step-daughter's $300/month cell phone, not to mention her "need" for expensive clothes. The little teenaged b**** and American Princess (yes her mom uses the word "princess" constantly) reciprocates with eyerolls and backtalk.
And people wonder why I'm not married with kids yet or why I won't date a single mom or any AW for that matter...

Bango Cheito

09-04-07, 08:06

There's an excellent book on the subject, 'Sperm Warriors' or something... about evolution and human sexuality.

PanamaPimpin

09-04-07, 10:37

http://travel.yahoo.com/singles

Look at this useless drivel on yahoo....so called top destinations for singles, yeah right not for a beer drinking, big dicked pussy lovin' nut like me!!

The had the nerve to put NY ON THERE UGHHHH! Disgusting

Ezinho

09-07-07, 20:41

Hornyscot

09-07-07, 23:06

And I'm sure cavemen were far more brutal with their mates than modern men are.

Re report....

Some anthropologists claim that cavewomen had just as much reason and
need to be wildly unfaithful as the men did. Evolutionary-based, it seems (Anatomy of Love, Helen Fisher Ph.D).

Saw a US "reality" show tonite called "Wife Swap". No it's not in any way lewd. One family portrayed made me sick: the mom & daughter were lazy, ungrateful, greedy, and totally disrespectful to dad, who appeared to have his balls snipped. He waits on them hand and foot in addition to supporting them and their extravagant tastes, isn't allowed to sleep in his own bed (that's for mom & daughter), never tells them "no", and is "allowed" to indulge his one true joy of golf only once a year. I think he's a step-dad and is footing the bill for his step-daughter's $300/month cell phone, not to mention her "need" for expensive clothes. The little teenaged b**** and American Princess (yes her mom uses the word "princess" constantly) reciprocates with eyerolls and backtalk.
And people wonder why I'm not married with kids yet or why I won't date a single mom or any AW for that matter...

SORRY ! like what the hell is this guy still there for ? I know these programs try to step out and make for conflict and interesting programs but seeing this episode and understanding what is going on here you have to take a step back.

A huge next state step back. I had the unfortunate experiance of being in a relationship with a woman who thought that the world owed her a life - LWTF.

She spent time in bed 'ill' and couldnt be bothered to get up and work, she had issues with all sorts of areas of life and I was a dutz to begin with. Finally realised that this was not the norm - seeing her live off of handouts from her parents and still able to run and do work for charities but not able to get out of bed and go work.

her kids wanted money for things - sport activities and such and I tried to help - did a multiple hour shift to get in some overtime and when the paycheck came in i was asked was that all there was !

The coffee was brewing but I could not smell it just yet.

Taking one kid to an after school activity I got the pleading eyes and the begging talk for money for something. Like wait a minute go and ask you effin father, you talk to me like shit and yet you are asking me for money - Nope the coffee was there and I was a smelling it.

I got out of that relationship and now Im in a mutually beneficial one now, both on similar salary and sharing the duties that a man and woman should. Two way street and we have a great sex life, instead of having one at each pay day and wondering what I was going to do for 28 days or so. Sleeping next to a ice maiden who looked at you as a meal ticket. Id not even say it was a ***** experiance as the sex was crap and didnt ring any bells. Id have paid for it and gotten better service from downtown crack addict.

Anyways she is still going through her own issues still and Im doing okay for myself now.

George90

09-08-07, 04:27

Has anyone heard about this story? Apparently, an AW was kicked off a flight from San Diego to Tuscon because she was too attractive! I guess the ugly Southwest Airlines flight attendants were pissed off because she was showing some leg, so they made her cover up wth a blanket. Can you imagine if airlines in Latin America/Asia/EE had draconian dress rules like this? Half the women on the plane would be kicked off!

What's funny is that this girl isn't even that hot; sure, she's got a sweet body, but she's kind of a butterface IMHO (probably from hitting the tanning beds too much).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20641687/

I saw it on CNN a few times. It has been on both the national and local news. SEX SELLS!!!

My impression was that this chick, mediocre looking at best, showed too much cleavage and too much leg for someone's taste. They reported Southwest as saying that there was concern over her appearance by some people. I think it was other passengers.

The newscasters made a point of saying that Southwest has no passenger dress code. Her dress violated no rule that would warrant being taken off a flight. So this was ENTIRELY arbitrary!

What is the worst, as one anchor noted, is that we are supposed to be concerned about flight safety and no one's safety was threatened here. Still everyone got distracted and a terrorist might have been able to do something while everyone is harassing this woman.

Dodger Bulldog

09-08-07, 06:58

she's kind of a butterface IMHOPardon my ignorance, but what is a "butterface?"

DB

Yogin

09-08-07, 07:01

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "butterface?"

DB

"She has a hot body...butter face?...not so much."
In this chick's case she's done too much time in tanning booths, it's ravaged her skin way before its time.

I'm sure the only ones doing the complaining on the plane were other women. The treachery women do to each other in our society is simply jaw-dropping.

Anyone heard of those BodyWorlds exhibits of real bodies that are plastinated? Only a tiny number of them are female, they say, because of "concerns from the community on the risk of a voyeuristic element", so says the website. Apparently it's only ok for people to perv on male dead plastinated remains, but not female ones. Yet more proof our society is sick beyond hope.

DJ FourMoney

09-08-07, 07:07

I saw it on CNN a few times. It has been on both the national and local news. SEX SELLS!!!

My impression was that this chick, mediocre looking at best, showed too much cleavage and too much leg for someone's taste. They reported Southwest as saying that there was concern over her appearance by some people. I think it was other passengers.

The newscasters made a point of saying that Southwest has no passenger dress code. Her dress violated no rule that would warrant being taken off a flight. So this was ENTIRELY arbitrary!

What is the worst, as one anchor noted, is that we are supposed to be concerned about flight safety and no one's safety was threatened here. Still everyone got distracted and a terrorist might have been able to do something while everyone is harassing this woman.

Yes, that is why culture war is raging. Us as a country focus way too much on what is not important, sex being the number 1 target usually.

There many Americans that are scared we'll take on a more progressive socialization similar to Western Europe. Why I don't know, Universal Health Care; letting people die in peace without pain and without suffering. We don't want people to die in the war over OIL but its okay to let Americans at home die from improper health care....

I really hope we as a nation turn the corner here when Bush is either forced out or they let him complete his turn as the worst leader of the free world we have ever, and I do mean ever have known.

I'll be sure not to fly on Southwest Airlines anytime soon...

CBGBConnisur

09-09-07, 03:09

The USA is on its way down regardless of what happens at this point, the dollar continues to slide, and its not some anomaly, it is falling out of favor against the more powerful Euro.

Dickhead

09-10-07, 05:48

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20590897/site/newsweek/

I have no problem doing my share of the dishes, laundry, cleaning the bathroom blah blah. It is natural to me since I have lived alone most of my life, and since I believe in full equality of the sexes. The problem I have is the premise that the more dishes I do, the more sex I get. Seems a bit Pavlovian to me.

Where I live, it is considered flat out odd for men to do any household chores. I was recently renegotiating my lease with my landlord. I told him I did not care about cable TV or maid service, which are included in the rent. He thought I was kidding him when I told him the only time I turned on the TV was to check the temperature, which of course I can do over the internet (also included in the rent) or even by sticking my arm out the window.

But he said, "Maid service is very important. Otherwise who will change the sheets?" Ummm, me? Like I did my whole life until I moved here? How long does it take to clean a one-bedroom apartment? An obvious answer would be "however long this maid spends here" which is like 90 minutes but she is fat and inefficient.

You have a hooker here, and you treat her okay, and you won't need a maid. The hooker I had tonight, I fed her a good dinner. She did the dishes, including cleaning the stove and the counter tops, and she made the bed (a waste of time to my way of thinking). She also used her towel to wipe out the shower after we were done showering, which is not something I would do but hey.

I said this to my landlord: I have plenty of women who would have no problems changing my sheets, but I also have no problem changing them myself. He looked at me sort of "sideways dog-head." Fucker has probably never washed a dish or changed a sheet in his life. He one time asked me how I managed to juggle so many women and I said, "Two things: cook for them and eat pussy." Both of these ideas horrified him.

When I used to cook for American women, they used to tell me what to cook and how to cook it and how they had all these allergies so don't use this or that or the othermotherfucking thing. How about this? I cook it, and if you don't like it, don't eat it! Now there is a concept.

Down here I do have to follow some simple rules like don't use many spices and be prepared for them to dump 14 pounds of salt on whatever I cook. But they eat it, gladly, and do the dishes, and fuck me BEFORE dinner and AFTER dinner or there is no repeat. And doing the dishes is easy for them because I guarantee you they leave NOTHING on their plates.

I still have a lot of good American women friends but they don't get it. Tammy Wynette says "Stand By Your Man." No. Go the fuck DOWN on your man, early and often, and things will be good. One AW friend of mine told me that if there was not enough sex he could just jack off. I asked, what, then, was the point of being married. She did not get it. No self-respecting husband here would ever jack off. He would fuck the neighbor or go to a *****house with the grocery money.

Yogin

09-11-07, 05:56

The USA is on its way down regardless of what happens at this point, the dollar continues to slide, and its not some anomaly, [blah blah...]
[Yawn] CBGB, you've uttered this same exact thing dozens of times it seems. Might you have a macro key programmed to spit out the same missive over and over? It would save you the trouble.
Do you have any helpful educational or amusing info, reports, articles, experiences, or opinions to offer on AW's?

Dickhead: well said! But it isn't Pavlovian (classical conditioning); rather it is Skinnerian (operant conditioning/positive reinforcement). Your AW references are spot-on. I refuse to be controlled by a woman (and I've no need myself to control a woman) or be subjected to sex being used as a tool or weapon. Hence probably why I've never married.

CBGBConnisur

09-13-07, 00:56

I have a lot of experiences with American women, recently going back for a brief visit after spending some time in Europe, I could not believe how fat and ugly most American women are.

Rock Dog

09-14-07, 02:15

You have a hooker here, and you treat her okay, and you won't need a maid. The hooker I had tonight, I fed her a good dinner. She did the dishes, including cleaning the stove and the counter tops, and she made the bed.

So, you have a way to get women of your choosing to help out with chores and provide a variety of sexual enjoyments. You've pretty much eliminated the main reasons for a wife/GF.

This post should be required reading for any guy who is thinking about bothering with a long-term relationship. Well done!

Rock

DJ FourMoney

09-14-07, 06:05

If your resigned to not getting married and not having kids, then Rock doing what DH is doing might be ideal for you.

I know my limitations, age is a number and important to those that live in Western Culture. Women under 27 basically aren't interested, period. I'd say roughly 2/3rds of those women in Westernized countries have at least ONE child, not ideal but as they say when you given Lemons...

I am not happy about that and that means to ultimately to get what I want I have to leave the country, my search for long term happiness is becoming very costly.

I think in the end, if the correct decision is made, LTR still cost less than "Paid Labor" if you compare 20 years of mongering to 20 years of 100% happy wedded bliss.

Dickhead

09-14-07, 07:28

20 years of 100% happy wedded bliss. Uh huh. Good luck with that. You need to listen to more Meat Loaf and less Donny and Marie.

But see, Rock Dog, it IS a long-term relationship. One I had here this week, I have been seeing her around once a week for three and a half years. It is not just sex. We cook together, play cards and chess, shoot pool, go to plays, and concerts, and take trips together. She fucks me EVERY time, and I give her money EVERY time except for when I tell her I don't have any and she says she wants to come over anyway (maybe one time in ten).

The one I had last night I have been seeing for three years this month. She is (sort of) married, not legally married, but for that reason we don't go out in public much. We watch horror flicks and she cuts my hair, shaves my beard, shaves my neck, trims my eyebrows; she is a professional barber with her own barber shop. She fucks me EVERY time, and I give her money MOST times (maybe three times out of four) and 1 or 2 meals every time.

Another gal I have known for three and a half years opened up her own *****house. I don't see her as often any more but whenever she gets a new gal she has me come test her out and I only pay the 40% that the girl gets. My friend waives her cut due to past favors I have done, and for giving her business advice.

Then I fuck two or three new gals a week and maybe one other repeat. This all costs about $350 a week US including food and beverages.

Capt Ajax

09-15-07, 17:20

Dirkhead you have seen the light!!!! If a guy is not interested in having children why bother getting married or hitched to one woman. Seeing two or three fuckbuddy's regularly works just fine with me.

20 years of 100% happy wedded bliss. Uh huh. Good luck with that. You need to listen to more Meat Loaf and less Donny and Marie.

But see, Rock Dog, it IS a long-term relationship. One I had here this week, I have been seeing her around once a week for three and a half years. It is not just sex. We cook together, play cards and chess, shoot pool, go to plays, and concerts, and take trips together. She fucks me EVERY time, and I give her money EVERY time except for when I tell her I don't have any and she says she wants to come over anyway (maybe one time in ten).

The one I had last night I have been seeing for three years this month. She is (sort of) married, not legally married, but for that reason we don't go out in public much. We watch horror flicks and she cuts my hair, shaves my beard, shaves my neck, trims my eyebrows; she is a professional barber with her own barber shop. She fucks me EVERY time, and I give her money MOST times (maybe three times out of four) and 1 or 2 meals every time.

Another gal I have known for three and a half years opened up her own *****house. I don't see her as often any more but whenever she gets a new gal she has me come test her out and I only pay the 40% that the girl gets. My friend waives her cut due to past favors I have done, and for giving her business advice.

Then I fuck two or three new gals a week and maybe one other repeat. This all costs about $350 a week US including food and beverages.

Capt Ajax

09-15-07, 17:57

The USA is on its way down regardless of what happens at this point, the dollar continues to slide, and its not some anomaly, it is falling out of favor against the more powerful Euro.

I agree with CBGB the U.S economy is on it's way down.

With the U.S. Dollar Index breaking decisively below its long-term support level, the sun is finally setting on the golden age of American consumption. As America’s economic dominance fades, so too will the faith in the central thesis that has explained its apparent success and has shaped the majority of recent economic theory.

At issue is the belief that a nation can grow and prosper by borrowing from abroad in order to consume imported goods. To consume at the pace that it has, America exchanges income producing assets, such as companies or property, or interest bearing IOUs, such as Treasury notes or mortgage-backed bonds, for foreign made clothes, toys and electronics. Economists call these transactions “growth”. But rather than discovering a new path to prosperity, America has simply stumbled on a short cut to financial ruin.

For years America has convinced the emerging market countries that their prosperity is a function of our consumption. It is argued that their export oriented economies would falter if not for the insatiable American willingness to consume (a “virtue” that is assumed to be uniquely American). As the dollar falls into the abyss, this myth will be shattered.

My forecast is that over the next two to three years the U.S. Dollar index will fall to 40; half of its current value. As this happens, much of America’s economic power will be transferred abroad. The chart below approximates current per capita U.S. dollar GDP for thirty nations, including the United States, listed in descending order.

Luxembourg 91,926.63
Norway 76,447.78
Ireland 57,163.07
Switzerland 54,466.77
Iceland 53,532.47
United States 46,085.15
Sweden 44,454.36
Netherlands 42,762.96
United Kingdom 41,959.85
Canada 41,347.87
Australia 37,981.52
France 37,416.55
Germany 36,779.14
United Arab Emirates 36,180.87
Japan 36,021.22
Singapore 32,082.02
Spain 31,726.55
New Zealand 24,511.95
Greece 24,030.41
Israel 20,510.55
Portugal 19,287.51
Saudi Arabia 16,612.16
Poland 9,214.27
Chile 8,335.70
Russia 8,183.02
Mexico 7,755.69
Argentina 6,548.80
Venezuela 6,393.99
Brazil 5,518.21
Peru 3,328.55

A 50% decline in the value of the dollar will simultaneously increase interest rates, consumer prices and unemployment in the United States, while causing stock and real estate prices to fall. Consumption, which accounts for better than 70% of U.S. GDP, should collapse as a result, producing a significant recession. My forecast is that U.S. GDP will contract by at least 20%. (The Fed may seek to mitigate the nominal decline with expansive monetary policy, but such moves will only result in an even greater contraction in real GDP.)

Assuming a 50% decline in the value of the dollar and a 20% fall in U.S. GDP, the above chart would look something like this:

Luxembourg 183,853.25
Norway 152,895.56
Ireland 114,326.14
Switzerland 108,933.54
Iceland 107,064.94
Sweden 88,908.73
Netherlands 85,525.93
United Kingdom 83,919.70
Canada 82,695.74
Australia 75,963.04
France 74,833.10
Germany 73,558.27
United Arab Emirates 72,361.73
Japan 72,042.44
Singapore 64,164.05
Spain 63,453.11
New Zealand 49,023.91
Greece 48,060.83
Israel 41,021.10
Portugal 38,575.02
United States 36,868.12
Saudi Arabia 33,224.32
Chile 16,671.40
Russia 16,366.03
Mexico 15,511.38
Argentina 13,097.61
Venezuela 12,787.97
Brazil 11,036.41
Peru 6,657.09

Obviously, these projections are very rough. Not all foreign currencies will rise in step and not all foreign GDPs will remain constant at today’s levels in local currencies. However it is the concept that is important. Notice how America falls from 6th place to 21st. America’s per capita GDP falls from 58% of Luxemburg’s, the top nation on the list, to a mere 20%. America’s per capita GDP falls from 14 times that of Peru, the lowest nation on the list, to only 5.6 times.

China is conspicuously absent from the list. Its current per capita GDP is only about $2,200. However, were China to allow its currency to float freely, my belief is that the yuan would rise far more significantly than other currencies. I have no idea how much more significantly that rise will be, but let us assume that its rise against the dollar would be double the rate of the typical currency in the Dollar Index. That would result in China’s per capita GDP rising to $8,800, just above Peru’s but still below Brazil’s.

Factoring in China’s enormous population means that such a significant rise in its per capita GDP would have a profound impact on global consumption. Consider the following table, in billions of U.S. dollars, of the GDPs of the G-7 nations plus China:

United States 13,928.462
Japan 4,599.358
Germany 3,036.853
China 2,871.019
United Kingdom 2,552.655
France 2,370.843
Italy 1,949.878
Canada 1,357.073

Now consider the table with my assumptions regarding exchange rates and a 20% decline in U.S. GDP.

China 11,484.08
United States 11,142.77
Japan 9,198.72
Germany 6,073.71
United Kingdom 5,105.31
France 4,741.69
Italy 3,899.76
Canada 2,714.15

Under this scenario, China supplants the United States as the world’s largest economy, not in 30 or 40 years as is commonly believed, but perhaps as soon as before the end of this decade. The U.S. retains its lead over Japan for second place, yet the margin declines from over 300% to just 10%. (My prediction is that the yen will rise more significantly than most other currencies meaning that Japan’s GDP will likely surpass U.S. GDP as well.) Further, the GDP of the thirteen nations sharing the euro is currently about 12.8 trillion dollars. After the dollar’s decline it will rise to a staggering 25.6 trillion, more then twice that of the U.S. As a result, considering the EU as a single nation, the U.S. economy would then rank forth among the world’s largest, with its GDP declining from 43% of world GDP to only 21%.

Current ideology holds that a recession in the United States as severe as the one I am forecasting would be catastrophic for the global economy. But this short-sighted view overlooks the effects of such tremendous dollar gains in the GDPs of the rest of the world. Wouldn’t the increased consumption of everyone else offset the effects of the decreased consumption of Americans? It is not as if factories around the world would shut down if Americans stopped spending. All that would change would be the nationality of the buyers.

As American consumer spending declines, foreign spending will rise to take its place. With an explosion in foreign purchasing power, consumers around the world will see the dollar values of their incomes and savings soar. Globally, goods will fall in price and consumers around the world will snap up the bargains. Goods that were formerly out of reach for many foreign consumers will now be affordable. The reverse will occur in America. As production is diverted away from poorer Americans to more affluent foreigners, consumer prices in America will rise sharply. Goods that Americans used to easily “afford” will now be out of reach.

As gold surpasses $700 per ounce, oil tops $80 per barrel, and wheat prices exceed $9 per bushel, Americans are already getting a taste of things to come. Prices for these and other commodities are rising as a direct result of the weakness in the dollar. As this weakness intensifies in the months ahead, commodity price increases will accelerate. However, as their own currencies rise, many foreign buyers will actually experience price decreases. The result will be even greater demand for commodities from abroad just as domestic demand subsides.

Further, as the world stops exporting so much of its savings to America, there will be far more capital available to foreign entrepreneurs to invest productively. Think of the crowding out effect of so much of the world’s savings being lent to American consumers. Now imagine the foreign investment boom that would follow as foreigners reclaim access to their own savings.

The American propensity to consume is not a unique talent. Any nation can emulate it so long as it finds willing lenders and suppliers. Production on the other hand is an entirely different matter. It requires free markets, limited government, the rule of law, savings, capital and hard work. The world economy will not be brought to its knees simply because Americans stop consuming. Rather it is America’s service sector economy that will collapse once the rest of the world stops propping it up.

http://www.europac.net/

Rock Dog

09-16-07, 18:00

Dickhead

09-16-07, 22:44

Rock Dog, have you ever been to India? The idea of it being anywhere equivalent to the US in anything any time in this century is absolutely ludicrous. Military strength? India equivalent to the US? Please.

Rock Dog

09-17-07, 02:09

The current standard of living in India is roughly about where we were a hundred years ago. A person from 19th century London walking through the streets of any major Indian city would notice many similarities.

We made it from there to where we are today in a hundred years. It may very well happen in a lot less time for countries like India, since they have our example to go by. India has a 3 to 1 population advantage, so once they get a middle-class going in ther own country, they'll have a huge home market.

In military terms? Even now they have nukes and missiles that can carry them. Sure the US has a more capable military for the time being. But it's the most expensive military in the world. The only reason you guys can afford it is because of deficit spending that is being carried by American taxpayers.

First you get the economy, then you have the money, then you buy a powerful military. That's how it worked for the USA and there's no reason at all why the same shouldn't apply to other nations. Will this happen anytime in our lives? I think I'll see it some day when I'm an oldtimer. Remember, I'm talking about a rough economic/military parity.... NOT superiority.

No country stays on top forever. The Roman empire was pretty big.....Italy? Not such a big deal. The Persian empire was the most powerful of it's time. Now? Iran, just one little country run by troublemakers dreaming of greater influence. How about the Soviets? They were supposed to be pretty scary but how scary are they now?

The British Empire was pretty amazing in it's day. They were the number one power in the world with colonies all over the place. India, Africa, Asia and North America all got colonized or ruled by the brits at one time or another. They eventually collapsed under the burden of maintaining their empire and today, Britain is a second-rate power. Can you imagine the reaction of a 1907 Brit if they could see how fast their country was going to sink over the next few decades? I think something similar will inevitably happen to the US. We're still only in 2007. 2100 AD is a long ways off.

Rock

Capt Ajax

09-17-07, 02:20

Early this morning China let the idiots in Washington, and on Wall Street, know that it has them by the short hairs. Two senior spokesmen for the Chinese government observed that China's considerable holdings of US dollars and Treasury bonds "contributes a great deal to maintaining the position of the dollar as a reserve currency."

Should the US proceed with sanctions intended to cause the Chinese currency to appreciate, "the Chinese central bank will be forced to sell dollars, which might lead to a mass depreciation of the dollar."

If Western financial markets are sufficiently intelligent to comprehend the message, US interest rates will rise regardless of any further action by China. At this point, China does not need to sell a single bond. In an instant, China has made it clear that US interest rates depend on China, not on the Federal Reserve.

The precarious position of the US dollar as reserve currency has been thoroughly ignored and denied. The delusion that the US is "the world's sole superpower," whose currency is desirable regardless of its excess supply, reflects American hubris, not reality. This hubris is so extreme that only 6 weeks ago McKinsey Global Institute published a study that concluded that even a doubling of the US current account deficit to $1.6 trillion would pose no problem.

Strategic thinkers, if any remain who have not been purged by neocons, will quickly conclude that China's power over the value of the dollar and US interest rates also gives China power over US foreign policy. The US was able to attack Afghanistan and Iraq only because China provided the largest part of the financing for Bush's wars.

If China ceased to buy US Treasuries, Bush's wars would end. The savings rate of US consumers is essentially zero, and several million are afflicted with mortgages that they cannot afford. With Bush's budget in deficit and with no room in the US consumer's budget for a tax increase, Bush's wars can only be financed by foreigners.

.No country on earth, except for Israel, supports the Bush regimes' desire to attack Iran. It is China's decision whether it calls in the US ambassador, and delivers the message that there will be no attack on Iran or further war unless the US is prepared to buy back $900 billion in US Treasury bonds and other dollar assets.

The US, of course, has no foreign reserves with which to make the purchase. The impact of such a large sale on US interest rates would wreck the US economy and effectively end Bush's war-making capability. Moreover, other governments would likely follow the Chinese lead, as the main support for the US dollar has been China's willingness to accumulate them. If the largest holder dumped the dollar, other countries would dump dollars, too.

The value and purchasing power of the US dollar would fall. When hard-pressed Americans went to Wal-Mart to make their purchases, the new prices would make them think they had wandered into Nieman Marcus. Americans would not be able to maintain their current living standard.

Simultaneously, Americans would be hit either with tax increases in order to close a budget deficit that foreigners will no longer finance or with large cuts in income security programs. The only other source of budgetary finance would be for the government to print money to pay its bills. In this event, Americans would experience inflation in addition to higher prices from dollar devaluation.

This is a grim outlook. We got in this position because our leaders are ignorant fools. So are our economists, many of whom are paid shills for some interest group. So are our corporate leaders whose greed gave China power over the US by offshoring the US production of goods and services to China. It was the corporate fat cats who turned US Gross Domestic Product into Chinese imports, and it was the "free trade, free market economists" who egged it on.

How did a people as stupid as Americans get so full of hubris?

.

George90

09-17-07, 09:20

The advisors to our political leaders are not as stupid as we think. There is a strategy to embracing economic policies which are hurting the value of the dollar. The objective of that strategy is economic growth through rising exports.

President Bush and Treasury Sect. Paulson revealed this in 2006 when they declared that supporting the value of the dollar would no longer be a high priority. Bush's buddies in industries such as defense, transportation, iron/steel, computers and other high tech stuff, insisted on a low dollar so that US manufacturing could be competitive with countries paying lower wages than the US.

The strategy is working for them. Boeing recently announced that its orders for passenger jets have risen dramatically and it is winning orders over Airbus Industries.

The fact that this strategy is not working for ordinary Americans doesn't mean the politicians and business leaders are stupid. It means they are governing with only the interests of the elite in consideration. Whether or not the American voters are stupid for voting such politicians into office twice in a row is a different question.

Bango Cheito

09-17-07, 18:07

CBGBConnisur

09-17-07, 20:52

Ahh the mysteries of economics!

So the US Dollar continues to slide. But there's are reason for this... it isn't happening by accident you know. Some of the decline is on purpose.

When the US dollar is strong, more imported goods can be purchased for a given amount of money. It also means that, in other countries, US made goods are comparatively expensive. As an example, up here in Canada, a new Corvette was going for about 75 or 80 thousand dollars Cdn. Down there it's like maybe 50k. Now that a Canadian dollar is almost even with a US dollar, lot's of guys are heading south and buying these cars because it seems like such a great deal.

When the US dollar goes down, imports become comparatively more expensive. But, on the flipside, US exports become more competitive... which helps the US economy.

A more insidious effect of a weaker US dollar is the loss of prestige. Lot's of people across the world see America as the #1 destination of choice. These are the hard-working, smart, motivated types that want to get ahead in life. Having so many of them coming to America gives you guys a much un-appreciated advantage. It's almost like they way the Yankees can keep winning because they can buy all the best talent.

I can see a future where China and India are more equal economically and even in military strength. But I don't really see any other countries in the world that can offer the same chance to get ahead, the same wide open spaces so to speak. Maybe the US won't be number 1, but it will be a great nation for a long time to come.

After all, you don't see a lot of foreign women wanting to get married to some guy in India or China. Not yet anyways.

Rock
The American government now has to play along with China, the fact that Hank Paulson and Elaine Chao ran off to Beijing for an emergency meeting with Chinese officials demonstrates how vulnerable the US is at this point. Still the Chinese depend on the US market for their goods and services, but it they are not going to finance American debt forever, especially since the dollar has been depreciating considerably, the Chinese have been looking at holding Gold and Euros.
As far as India becoming a country with a standard of living comparable to the US its highly doubtful that it will happen for at least 30 to 40 years. China though on the other hand is modernizing at a much faster rate, and if the US Dollar depreciates the way it is according to Peter Schiff, the Chinese GDP will be bigger than the US by 2010. The US will still have a higher per capita income, but its standard of living will be lower than that of Western Europe, Japan, Australia, and Canada. Even a poorer European country like Greece will have a higher per capita GDP than the US, and that is an embarassment.

As far as women going to Asian guys, it will happen, because its all about the money. During a few recent trips to Hong Kong, I saw large numbers of European girls working there and mostly "entertaining" well off gentlemen.
Speaking of Europe, the Euro will eventually displace the US Dollar as the currency of record, and among the Western white countries, the EU will have the upper hand over the USA.

The idea that the dollar is sliding to make US exports more competitive is spurious because the US today produces few exportable goods with exception of aircraft and military equipment.

Even with the fall of the dollar that Schiff talks about, the US will still be a reasonably comfortable country to live in, it has a lot of things that most places do not have, plenty of land, clean water, food, natural resources. Most Americans live in a private house instead of an apartment, etc. The US really needs to think of new strategies, maybe even disengagement from the Mideast which has brought nothing but problems. With a massive nuclear arsenal, no country will invade America without causing a nuclear war. Regardless future American governments will have to focus on fixing America's own internal problems than with foreign affairs.

Doctor_Skank

09-17-07, 21:19

Dickhead, The US military could be severely crippled at any time by France Russia OR China, why, because we DEPEND on them for essential materials and finished products for the military. The LAST thing on earth a country should think of outsourcing, we fucking did it.

BC:

There is no military in the world even close to challenging the US military. The Iraq fiasco is just that, a fiasco.... and the fact that we are still there the ultimate demonstration that the US has money to burn and an army to play with. But until China, India or Russia gain the logistics and strength to truly project their power, they'll be playing second and third fiddle to the US. Imagine Chinese interests in Africa (where the are heavily investing) were attacked? What would they be able to do? Not a damn thing because a few million troops do you no good if you can't put them where you need them.

US dependent on French, Russian or Chinese products/materials? Examples? We buy weapons from the Belgians and Israelis, some vehicles from South Africa and Australia... but nothing that can't be produced at home.

Capt Ajax

09-17-07, 21:47

BC:

There is no military in the world even close to challenging the US military. The Iraq fiasco is just that, a fiasco.... and the fact that we are still there the ultimate demonstration that the US has money to burn and an army to play with. But until China, India or Russia gain the logistics and strength to truly project their power, they'll be playing second and third fiddle to the US. Imagine Chinese interests in Africa (where the are heavily investing) were attacked? What would they be able to do? Not a damn thing because a few million troops do you no good if you can't put them where you need them.

US dependent on French, Russian or Chinese products/materials? Examples? We buy weapons from the Belgians and Israelis, some vehicles from South Africa and Australia... but nothing that can't be produced at home.

My opinion......The greatest military in the world has been brought to it's knees by a bunch of rag tag Sunnu/Shia militia's. The U.S military was never designed to fight urban guerilla's. Unfortunately this illegal Iraq war has given other world wide guerilla fighters a blue print on how to fight U.S forces.

Doctor_Skank

09-17-07, 22:09

My opinion......The greatest military in the world has been brought to it's knees by a bunch of rag tag Sunnu/Shia militia's. The U.S military was never designed to fight urban guerilla's. Unfortunately this illegal Iraq war has given other world wide guerilla fighters a blue print on how to fight U.S forces.

You watch too much TV... :) Brought to its knees? That's a very skewed view. Killing 3 soldiers a week fighting with snipers and IEDs is hardly "bringing an army to its knees".

I am against the Iraq war, always was. It's totally unnecessary and costly in both man, material and reputation/respect. We won't win there, as we are fighting the wrong way. You can only win a guerilla war by proxy or genocide. We are unwilling to do either. But brought to its knees?

That's silly and shows a total lack of understanding of what's going on militarily in Iraq.

CBGBConnisur

09-17-07, 22:29

At the present time there is no conventional military force that can compete with the USA but there are many countries that have a nuclear detterant at the present time. Russia and China can both react to an American assault that would lead to nuclear war. In another 15 years, I expect China and Europe to build military forces that will surpass that of the US. Europe clearly has industrial might that surpasses the US and will use these conventional industries to build
an EU Army.

The Chinese have the American economy by the balls and that is all they really need to manipulate and blackmail the US Government at this point.

The coming European Superpower and the Chinese Russian Axis will spell the end of an American dominated globe.

Doctor_Skank

09-17-07, 22:34

In another 15 years, I expect China and Europe to build military forces that will surpass that of the US. Europe clearly has industrial might that surpasses the US and will use these conventional industries to build
an EU Army.

China is already working on it, most significantly developing a vast submarine fleet that is a real challenge to US naval superiority, the Russians are also starting things up in this direction not to mention working on advanced missile technology... their specialty. Still, they are both more than a decade away from challenging the US and will have to invest hundreds of billions to even catch up... potentially sabotaging their needed work on their countries' infrastructure which is necessary to sustain growth.

The EU army? You have got to be kidding. No chance on that, their internal politics and 3% defence spending will prohibit them from fielding more than a regiment or two. Even the UK has an astonishly small and weak army. Individual units, like Royal Marines, Paras or SAS/SBS are absolutely world class fighters.. but puny in size. Swedish submarines some of the world's stealthiest and the Germans still experts in building military equipment, especially tanks and small arms. But a military complex? It's still unstructured and small. The Typhoon project was a financial fiasco and the aircraft already second rate to the F-22, F-35, Su-30 and Su-35 before it has even been properly fielded. They can't even build a heavy transport plane of their own and instead buy them from the US and Russia.

CBGBConnisur

09-17-07, 22:36

Fyi, Israel is America's high tech backdoor. The Israelis are already selling off key US technologies to China and India. Recall the Israeli Lavi jet? Israel is also helping to modernize India's nuclear arsenal which will grow five fold by 2010.

The EU Army may sound remote now but its coming. Europe is engaging in currency warfare with the US and the Euro is going to dominate world finance, the dollar is on its way out and there will be no way for the US to finance a large military and foreign wars.

Doctor_Skank

09-17-07, 22:40

Fyi, Israel is America's high tech backdoor. The Israelis are already selling off key US technologies to China and India.

That's why we won't sell them the F22.

Capt Ajax

09-17-07, 22:42

FYI...While the news media have finally started to grapple with the colossal amount of killing, a number of misunderstandings persist. Some are willful deceptions. Let's look at a few of them:

1. The U.S. is a buffer against more violence. This is perhaps the most resilient conjecture that has no basis in fact.

Iraqis themselves do not believe it. In a State Department poll published in September, huge majorities say the U.S. is directly responsible for the violence. The upsurge of bloodshed in Baghdad seems to confirm the Iraqis' view, at least by inference. The much-publicized U.S. effort to bring troops to Baghdad to quell sectarian killing has accompanied a period of increased mortality in the city.

2. The killers do it to influence U.S. politics. This was the mantra of right-wing bloggers and cable blowhards like Bill O'Reilly, who asserted time and again before November 7 that the violence was a "Tet offensive" designed to tarnish Bush and convince Americans to vote for Democrats. This is American solipsism, at which the right wing excels. If anything, the violence has grown since November 7.

English-language sources have more than 1,000 dead since the Bush rejection at the polls. Bill, are the Iraqi fighters now aiming at the Iowa caucuses in '08?

3. Syria and Iran are behind the violence. There is no compelling reason why the two neighbors would foment large-scale violence that could spill over to threaten their regimes. Iran is in the driver's seat -- as everyone not blinded by neo-con fantasies knew in advance -- with its Shia cousins in power; Syria has its own regime stability problems and does not need the large influx of refugees or potential jihadis. That both are happy to make life hard for the U.S. is not a secret (call it their Monroe Doctrine). But are they organizing the extreme and destabilizing violence we've seen this year? Doubtful. And, there's very little evidence to support this piece of blame-someone-else.

4. The "Go Big" strategy of the Pentagon could work. The Pentagon apparently is about to forward three options to Bush for a retreat: "Go Big," meaning more troops for a short time, "Go Long," a gradual withdrawal while training Iraqis, and "Go Home," acknowledging defeat and getting out. Go Big is what McCain and Zinni and others are proposing, as if adding 20,000 or 30,000 troops will do the trick. The argument about more troops, which speaks also to the "incompetence dodge" (i.e., that the war wasn't wrong, just badly managed), has one problem: no one can convincing prove that modest increments in troop strength will change the security situation in Iraq (see #1 above). One would need 300,000 or more troops to have a chance of pacifying Iraq, and that is neither politically feasible or logistically possible, and is therefore a nonstarter. So is "Go Big."

5. Foreign fighters, especially jihadis, are fueling the violence. This was largely discredited but is making a comeback as Washington's search for scapegoats intensifies. By most estimates, including the Pentagon's, foreign fighters make up a small fraction of violent actors in Iraq -- perhaps 10 percent overall. (This is based on identifying people arrested as fighters.) Some of the more spectacular attacks have been carried out by al Qaeda or its imitators, but overall the violence is due to three forces: U.S. military, Iraqi Sunni Arab insurgents, and Shia militia, with minor parts played by Kurdish peshmerga in Kirkuk and the foreign bad boys.

6. If we do not defeat the violent actors there, they will follow us here. This is now the sole remaining justification for U.S. involvement in the war. If the numbers about foreign fighters are correct, then it is plainly wrong. The main anatgonists are Iraqis, and they will remain there to fight it out for many years. That does not mean we have not created many "terrorists" who would do us harm, as U.S. intelligence agencies assert, but killing them in Iraq is not a plausible option. It's too difficult; aggressive counterinsurgency creates more fighters the longer we stay and harder we try; and they might not be there.

7. The violence is about Sunni-Shia mutual loathing; a pox on both their houses. This is the emerging "moral clarity" of the right wing, that we gave it our best, we handed the tools of freedom to Iraqis, and they'd rather kill each other. That there was longstanding antagonism, stemming from decades of Sunni Arab domination and repression, is well known. But the truly horrifying scale of violence we see now took many months to brew, and is built on the violence begun by the U.S. military and the lack of economic stability, political participation, etc., that the occupation wrought. Equally as important, sectarian killing found its political justification in the constitution fashioned by U.S. advisers that essentially split the country into three factions, giving them a very solid set of incentives to go to war with each other.

8. The war is an Iraqi affair, and the best we can do now is train them to enforce security. Despite three years of serious attempts, the U.S. training programs are bogged down by the sectarian violence itself, or by incompetence all round. No one who has looked at this carefully believes that training Iraqis is a near-term solution. It's a useful ruse as an exit strategy, blaming the victims for violence and failure.

9. Trust the same people who caused or endorsed the war to tell us what to do next. We know who they are: Bush, Cheney, McCain, and other cronies; the neo-cons now increasingly on the periphery of power but still bleating (Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Adelman, Lieberman), the liberal hawks, and the right-wing media (Krauthamer, Fox News, Glenn Beck, phalangist bloggers, et al). They say, "just finish the job." Just finish the job... at a human cost of how many more dead? How many lives ruined? How much more damage to U.S.-Arab relations? How much anti-Muslim racism fomented to justify the killing?

The distortions about the violence in Iraq persist even as the mayhem increases. Yesterday there was a report about 100 widows a day being created in Iraq. A Times of London report from last summer notes that gravediggers in one Baghdad cemetery are handling 200 bodies daily, compared with 60 before the war. The situation of the displaced is becoming a humanitarian crisis that will soon rival the worst African cases; the middle and upper classes have fled, leaving the poor to cope. So the poor from the U.S. go to beat up the poor in Iraq, or stand by helplessly as the Iraqi poor ravage each other.

That is the harsh reality of violence in Iraq. A half million dead. More than two million displaced. No end in sight.