American Women

[CBGBConnisur]

That's why we won't sell them the F22.
In case you have not realized it, Israeli intelligence pretty much keeps tabs on everything the US government does. The Israelis have carte blanche to everything in the US. Being a New Yorker its an unspoken truth that Israel runs the USA not the other way around.

[Doctor_Skank]

FYI...While the news media have finally started to grapple with the colossal amount of killing, a number of misunderstandings persist. Some are willful deceptions. Let's look at a few of them....
...
No end in sight.

I absolutely agree with you.

But none of the above says the insurgents are bringing the US military to its knees. It just shows are strategy is flawed or its implementation too late. If there ever was a chance to succeed in Iraq, it was lost years ago.


In case you have not realized it, Israeli intelligence pretty much keeps tabs on everything the US government does. The Israelis have carte blanche to everything in the US. Being a New Yorker its an unspoken truth that Israel runs the USA not the other way around.

I didn't realize that... because its not true. Israel does have influence on US policy, but hardly "runs the show".

Being a New Yorker, perhaps you have a skewed view on things, like the Knicks winning a championship.

[CBGBConnisur]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6997935.stm

This is a good case for why an EU Army might become a reality. Kouchner would never even mention the possibility of war with Iran if Europe did not have the capability.

[Yogin]

Gentlemen: this board is about American Women, not politics or anti-Semitic neo-Nazi-ish rants about how "Jews run the US".

For what it's worth: the US government says no to Israel all the time and has expressed disapproval or admonishment of it many times.

Isn't there a politics/rantings/propaganda/opinions board you all can go to?

[Brian Moloney]

Gentlemen: this board is about American Women, not politics or anti-Semitic neo-Nazi-ish rants about how "Jews run the US".

For what it's worth: the US government says no to Israel all the time and has expressed disapproval or admonishment of it many times.

Isn't there a politics/rantings/propaganda/opinions board you all can go to?Piper 1,

You're NO fool. You're one American that has his eyes wise open.

[CBGBConnisur]

Bernard Kouchner's remarks about war against Iran largely preempt that of George W Bush who up until now has been the primary hawk in the Mideast. Bush has been avoiding that question merely saying all options are on the table. Kouchner flat out said that war is a possibility, its a new direction for France. Germany's Merkel has also held a stronger stance against Tehran. Europe is destined to become a force to be reckoned with and will surpass the US in power, the Europeans will be counterbalanced by Russia and China.

[Rock Dog]

What will eventually bring the US down a notch or two will be the insane military overspending that has been going on for decades now.

The same thing happened to "Great Britain" in the 20th century. In 1901, Britain was the world's number one military and economic power..... with the US a fast-rising, newly-industrialized, 2nd place. What happened? WWI aka The Great War.

The Brits fought this war and won, but at a staggering cost in terms of finances and loss of life. By WWII, they could barely hold off Nazi Germany on their own. Without outside help, they would likely have lost. Less than 5 years later, the Brits lost India.The Suez crisis was the event that drove the fact home for those few who didn't yet realize that the whole idea of being number one was over. WWII ended in 1945, but even if you use the Suez crisis as the official date the whole process of collapse took a little over 50 years.

I see something quite similar going on today. America has been largely hollowed out as an industrial power. The accumulated national debt is approaching 10 trillion dollars. People in general have become soft, lazy and selfish. New Orleans is still a mess, ground zero is still just a big hole in the ground.... and millions of illegals roam freely across the border every year. Is that what you call a superpower?

Personally, I don't see any other single political entity displacing America as the pre-eminent military/economic power..... not anytime soon anyways. I see a future with multiple competing powers. India and China will have their spheres of influence. You might see something like a unified Europe, but to me this is doubtful. The Russians will always be around in one form or another.

Whatever, and why even worry about such things? Better to make a good living and get laid, frequently, by a wide variety of attractive women!

Rock

[Dickhead]

Jesus Fucking Christ. What about pussy? Muslim pussy, not very good. Jewish pussy, can be good but not worth the hassle. I fucked a gal tonight, half Peruvian and half Argentinean. It was good. It wasn't great. 50 dollars for three hours and I provided dinner but she did the dishes.

Pussy, not politics. Or just beat off and don't bother posting.

[Doctor_Skank]

Jesus Fucking Christ. What about pussy? Muslim pussy, not very good. Jewish pussy, can be good but not worth the hassle. I fucked a gal tonight, half Peruvian and half Argentinean. It was good. It wasn't great. 50 dollars for three hours and I provided dinner but she did the dishes.

Pussy, not politics. Or just beat off and don't bother posting.

We may have the bigger, more powerful army... but Europe and Russia have the better women. I'll give them that... :)

OK, back on topic. Sorry.

[George90]

The idea that the dollar is sliding to make US exports more competitive is spurious because the US today produces few exportable goods with exception of aircraft and military equipment.

CBGB,

You need to look up the meaning of the word 'spurious'.

That aside, your attempt at trivializing my point actually makes it stronger and more relevant. How important are defense contractors and military equipment manufacturers to the US economy? How many high level contacts do these firs have in our government. You know that the previous CEO of Halliburton, a large and powerful Texas military contractor, was Dick Cheney, our VP??????

These two industries, aricraft and military equiment are HUGE. Increasing their exports will have a significant impact on our economy and an especially favorable on their stock prices of the firms in those industries. In addition, few firms in these industries are on a technological par with US firms. They beat us only on price. When the dollar price declines due to a lower dollar value, then the US jets, tanks, missiles, etc. are made the best buy in the world. And THAT is the entire point!!!!

[George90]

In case you have not realized it, Israeli intelligence pretty much keeps tabs on everything the US government does. The Israelis have carte blanche to everything in the US. Being a New Yorker its an unspoken truth that Israel runs the USA not the other way around.


I didn't realize that... because its not true. Israel does have influence on US policy, but hardly "runs the show".

When Sharon was the Israeli president, he did have Bush "wrapped around his little finger" as quoted by Zev Brezinski. Israel DID run the whole show in the US for several years. Today, Israel's influence is still very strong but it doesn't 'run' things because Bush is so unpopular and weak.

[George90]

Gentlemen: this board is about American Women, not politics or anti-Semitic neo-Nazi-ish rants about how "Jews run the US".

Agreed that these last few posts are hardly on-topic.



For what it's worth: the US government says no to Israel all the time and has expressed disapproval or admonishment of it many times.


And has Israel ever listened???? Responded???? Changed their actions????

Israel is STILL expanding their illegal settlements around Jerusalem in violation of 3 UN resolutions.

[Capt Ajax]

We may have the bigger, more powerful army... but Europe and Russia have the better women. I'll give them that... :).

I agree.....:)

[CBGBConnisur]

Yes it is true that military equipment is now cheaper, and I knew Cheney was Pres of Halliburton, he is also swapping all his dollars for Euros too. Still the overall effect of the dollar weakening really has no benefit for the economy. The USA is a consumer economy based on a strong middle class, destroy that and you pretty much destroy America. Conventional military equipment is irrelevant. Countries like Russia, China, and even India and France have tactical nuclear weapons and that is enough of a deterrant from attack, a small army with a lot of nukes is better than a large army with none. That being said the falling dollar is going to cripple the US Economy not strengthen it.

[DJ FourMoney]

20 years of 100% happy wedded bliss. Uh huh. Good luck with that. You need to listen to more Meat Loaf and less Donny and Marie.

But see, Rock Dog, it IS a long-term relationship. One I had here this week, I have been seeing her around once a week for three and a half years. It is not just sex. We cook together, play cards and chess, shoot pool, go to plays, and concerts, and take trips together. She fucks me EVERY time, and I give her money EVERY time except for when I tell her I don't have any and she says she wants to come over anyway (maybe one time in ten).

The one I had last night I have been seeing for three years this month. She is (sort of) married, not legally married, but for that reason we don't go out in public much. We watch horror flicks and she cuts my hair, shaves my beard, shaves my neck, trims my eyebrows; she is a professional barber with her own barber shop. She fucks me EVERY time, and I give her money MOST times (maybe three times out of four) and 1 or 2 meals every time.

Another gal I have known for three and a half years opened up her own *****house. I don't see her as often any more but whenever she gets a new gal she has me come test her out and I only pay the 40% that the girl gets. My friend waives her cut due to past favors I have done, and for giving her business advice.

Then I fuck two or three new gals a week and maybe one other repeat. This all costs about $350 a week US including food and beverages.

So that's 5-6 girls a week with 2-3 "regulars"@$350US a week....

$1400 a month....

If we split typical US middle class living (mid range) down the middle, it would come to around that number. Only difference being your banging the same woman, but if you married a closet ho, that wouldn't be so bad would it? You also said you did some things with girl #1 that most men don't do with their wives anyway.

How many American women complain that once men have gotten what they want, they put no effort in? You could say the same about women letting themselves go as well.

I know women that would DIE to have their men cook with them, do the dishes, go out on a regular basis and travel. How often does THAT happen?

What you need to find is a fair exchange, in your case you have found your fair exchange. You are alone when you want and have company when you want at rates FAR LOWER than serial dating in the States.

So its not so much Donny and Marie and yes I remember that show "Goodnight Everybody...." I don't do Meatloaf, I pop in Tony Yayo


I don't, love, hoes - I'm sharin them
I ain't lovin them, or handcuffin them - cause baby I'm pimpin
You, love, hoes - you chasin them
You be lacin them, while I'm replacin them - cause baby I'm pimpin....

The local Hungarian girl didn't cost me much but I couldn't get it to go for more than a few weeks which was disappointing. If I knew a way to find more EE or Western European FOB girls easier then I would do it.

Until I can figure out how to make money as an expat, I have to resigned to traveling internationally for pleasure and spending evenings exchanging SMS with chicks overseas...

[Dickhead]

"your banging the same woman, but if you married a closet ho, that wouldn't be so bad would it?"

Boring.

[Ezinho]

Well everyone, take note. Today is the day the US dollar officially passed away. The Fed cut it's main interest rate by 50 basis points to 4.75%, and now the USD is almost equal to the Canadian dollar in value. Remember when us Americans used to make fun of the Canadian dollar? Now we could do an even swap and it would be about the same value. And the Brasilian Real is now at 1.86 to the dollar as I type this, which means no more bunda for Ezinho, at least not in the near future.

Anyways, before you all yell at me for posting about non-AW related news, this actually does have something to do with AW. The dead dollar means more of us will either be staying at home for pussy, or if you're one of the lucky few as I am and live driving distance to Mexico, will be making more trips to Mexican-border towns for Latina pussy. I actually browsed Craigslist today and was tempted to call one of the girls on there, as they were advertising an $80 "quickie", but decided to make a run to Tijuana this weekend instead.

Is the dead dollar affecting anyone else on here? I have to admit, some of the girls that post on CL look decent, but I'm still somewhat skeptical.

[George90]

Is the dead dollar affecting anyone else on here? I have to admit, some of the girls that post on CL look decent, but I'm still somewhat skeptical.

It is affecting me. I decided against a trip to Colombia so I could use my whole travel budget for Brazil. I lost my AA Advantage Gold because I didn't travel enough. I will lose my TAM Gold membership next year for the same reason.

I do not plan on getting any local pussy. It just isn't worth it no matter how low the US dollar falls. I am accelerating plans for earning money outside the US.

[Dodger Bulldog]

Well everyone, take note. Today is the day the US dollar officially passed away... The dead dollar means more of us will either be staying at home for pussy...Is the dead dollar affecting anyone else on here? I expect that eventually Chinese businessmen will be coming to America in hordes to get cheap blow jobs from our granddaughters.

DB

[Happy Chappy]

Well everyone, take note. Today is the day the US dollar officially passed away. The Fed cut it's main interest rate by 50 basis points to 4.75%, and now the USD is almost equal to the Canadian dollar in value. Remember when us Americans used to make fun of the Canadian dollar? Now we could do an even swap and it would be about the same value. And the Brasilian Real is now at 1.86 to the dollar as I type this, which means no more bunda for Ezinho, at least not in the near future.

Anyways, before you all yell at me for posting about non-AW related news, this actually does have something to do with AW. The dead dollar means more of us will either be staying at home for pussy, or if you're one of the lucky few as I am and live driving distance to Mexico, will be making more trips to Mexican-border towns for Latina pussy. I actually browsed Craigslist today and was tempted to call one of the girls on there, as they were advertising an $80 "quickie", but decided to make a run to Tijuana this weekend instead.

Is the dead dollar affecting anyone else on here? I have to admit, some of the girls that post on CL look decent, but I'm still somewhat skeptical.

I think you are spot on. That 50 bp cut by the Fed seems like a nail in the coffin for the USD. I also think it is very relevant to this thread. Those that live in the U.S. and currently are fustrated with American women and rely on a cheap mongering chip to fulfill their sexual urges need to be on top of this trend. If you only earn USD and hold USD assets you are running a big risk. The risk is you stay fustrated with American women, but your current sexual release of your cheap mongering holidays are now no longer available due to a declining USD making your holiday release too expensive. So it is certainly relevant, but I could understand if some thought these sort of finance discusions be moved to a separate thread?

[Vn1111]

I expect that eventually Chinese businessmen will be coming to America in hordes to get cheap blow jobs from our granddaughters.

DBNot sure if the Chinese will demand BJ in English then or the future American pussies will have to learn to offer it in Mandarin.

[Vn1111]

I think you are spot on. That 50 bp cut by the Fed seems like a nail in the coffin for the USD. I also think it is very relevant to this thread. Those that live in the U.S. and currently are fustrated with American women and rely on a cheap mongering chip to fulfill their sexual urges need to be on top of this trend. If you only earn USD and hold USD assets you are running a big risk. The risk is you stay fustrated with American women, but your current sexual release of your cheap mongering holidays are now no longer available due to a declining USD making your holiday release too expensive. So it is certainly relevant, but I could understand if some thought these sort of finance discusions be moved to a separate thread?The USD is weaker means that mongering in the US is getting cheaper relatively. One thing I am not sure is if the quality will get worse (it is already bad, isn't it?)

[Rock Dog]

So it is certainly relevant, but I could understand if some thought these sort of finance discusions be moved to a separate thread?

Well, nobodys flaming anybody. There isn't even much of an argument and the discussion is quite interesting. I for one, am enjoying it..... so is there really a need to move this discussion elsewhere?

Ezinho,

Just so you know, here in Canada.... the rapid rise of our dollar compared to the US$ is looked on with a great deal of dismay by many. Why? Because it's putting a great strain on many of the businesses here that depend on exports to the States. Our dollar used to be even back in 1976. Then it slid for about the next 25 years going up and down from 90 down to 58 cents US$. Now it's back up again. A mixed bag of effects for all.

Rock

[George90]

Ezinho,

Just so you know, here in Canada.... the rapid rise of our dollar compared to the US$ is looked on with a great deal of dismay by many. Why? Because it's putting a great strain on many of the businesses here that depend on exports to the States. Our dollar used to be even back in 1976. Then it slid for about the next 25 years going up and down from 90 down to 58 cents US$. Now it's back up again. A mixed bag of effects for all.

Rock

I imagine that the tourism industry might be disappointed. I knew Americans who regularly went to Canada to hunt, fish, hike, camp, ski, and even monger. I suspect that those types of places and the export industry are hurting. (If I remember correctly, the US is by far Canada's largest importer. A sustained strong loonie can do serious damage to Canada's economy.)

[Jelly Donut]

I think when you folks are talking about the dollar falling you are framing it against the US Dollar Lehman Index, or something like it, which is a basket of currencies - the main two being the Euro and the Yen. The dollar has dropped about 5 percent against those currencies in the past year.

As I mentioned a few months ago here, there are ways of protecting your vacation money against a declining a dollar. For instance, if you had bet against the dollar a year ago with a mutual fund like, say, Rydex Weakening Dollar 2x you would have made a little over 5 percent on your money (after paying the load).

Truth is, you would have been better off putting the vacation money an ING or EmigrantDirect savings account where the yield would be about the same and you would not expose yourself to anywhere near the same level of risk.

Thing is, anyway, I'm not planning on visiting those countries with currencies that are regularly used as benchmarks against the dollar (Germany, France, UK, Italy, Japan) it does not matter much to me that the dollar has dropped against them. Why the heck would you go to those places?

What matters to me is how the dollar is doing against the countries on my short list of vacation destinations.

For instance, if I were planning a vacation to Thailand or Brazil, well, the dollar has taken a dive compared to the real and the baht. It's lost around 10 percent of it's value against those currencies in the past year. That might play a factor in planning. Of course there are a number of other costs and benefits to weigh before reaching a final decision.

The dollar has lost about 5 percent against the Colombian peso in the past year. This is in balance with the five percent gain if you've been saving vacation money in a bet against the dollar (not considering inflation). This works out okay, since Colombia is a fine destination.

Of course, the Dominican Republic is better. The US dollar has been basically unchanged against the Dominican Peso over the course of the past year.

More interestingly, the dollar has increased in value against the Argentine peso by about 2 percent over the past year and it's increased by over 4 percent against the Indonesian rupiah.

And there's always Zimbabwe if you want your dollar to go a long way and don't weight other factors and costs at all.

For perspective, in most parts of the US, you pay sales tax of around 6 percent, but that probably does not keep you from buying the things you want. As a voter, you have a lot more control over state sales taxation than you do over national currency valuation. My guess is you will pay a lot more in sales tax over the next year than whatever extra you might pay in Brazil if you go on a vacation there shortly.

[Dodger Bulldog]

For instance, if I were planning a vacation to Thailand or Brazil, well, the dollar has taken a dive compared to the real and the baht. It's lost around 10 percent of it's value against those currencies in the past year. That might play a factor in planning.When I booked my trip to Rio last November the real was at 2.14 to the dollar. Here is the documentation from Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=adbRUPjjqM7w&refer=currency

When I arrived on June 1, it was 1.90 to the dollar. The dollar had lost 12.6% in only seven months. Annualized that would be a loss in value of 21.6%, a hell of a lot more than 10% in a year.

And that was after the real had already risen 32% against the dollar the previous year.

Believe me, I felt the pain!

DB

[Jelly Donut]

Well, yeah, since currencies move around it might have been 12.6 seven months back and 11 percent over the year (per Wall Street Journal market data; I rounded down from 11 for Brazil and up from 9 for the baht). If you go back five years the dollar has tumbled massively, if you go back six it is basically unchanged. You can pick whatever date you want in order to make the data blend with your argument.




When I booked my trip to Rio last November the real was at 2.14 to the dollar. Here is the documentation from Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=adbRUPjjqM7w&refer=currency

When I arrived on June 1, it was 1.90 to the dollar. The dollar had lost 12.6% in only seven months. Annualized that would be a loss in value of 21.6%, a hell of a lot more than 10% in a year.

And that was after the real had already risen 32% against the dollar the previous year.

Believe me, I felt the pain!

DB

[Bango Cheito]

JD the USD is currently down almost 20% against Colombia's peso this year. At it's low point it was over 35%, and it may well be headed there again before the end of the year.

In the past 4 years the USD has gone down from 4:1 to vs the real to 1.85. That's like a 55% or so loss!

[Dodger Bulldog]

You can pick whatever date you want in order to make the data blend with your argument.Well, I didn't do that.

I picked the week I bought my plane ticket to the day I arrived. So this was my reality.

No 5% money market account was going to come close to making up the difference that the dollar lost.

Of course, I realize that rate fluctuation is a risk you take when you travel outside the country. But that still doesn't make the crashing dollar any more pleasing.

DB

[Chocha Monger]

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/couplesandmarriage/articlelhj.aspx?cp-documentid=5442320&GT1=10416

[George90]

http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/couplesandmarriage/articlelhj.aspx?cp-documentid=5442320&GT1=10416

Even though I only read the first page, that story makes me think about that academic research that is looking for a link between female obesity and lesbianism. LOL!

[Jelly Donut]

Hmm. Well, it's hard to hit a moving target. A year ago the COP was a little over 2400 and this month it has ranged between 2200 and 2000, more or less. Yesterday it dropped a lot (after I posted) so it's closer to twenty percent.

Anyway, I don't think any of this moves away me away from the things I posted on. It may make more sense to keep vacation money in place where it's value goes up, while the value of the dollar goes down (although I do think you need to pay attention to the load on designer mutual funds) and also be aware that currencies move around a lot. For people who don't want to play with vacation money, it's not a sure bet that the dollar will continue to decline. A FDIC insured savings account making 5 percent is basically a no risk thing.

And, more significantly, there are some very important mongering destinations which have not yet revalued against the dollar. If you are only interested in the exchange rate, some countries have not moved much against the dollar in the past year at all.


JD the USD is currently down almost 20% against Colombia's peso this year. At it's low point it was over 35%, and it may well be headed there again before the end of the year.

In the past 4 years the USD has gone down from 4:1 to vs the real to 1.85. That's like a 55% or so loss!

[CBGBConnisur]

I wonder how the effect of the declining economic status of the USA will have on the behavior of AWs, will they be different during more leaner times? Part of the reason for their behavior, actually most of it has to do with money and opportunity. American women up until now have been financially much better off and had many avenues for economic gain compared to women overseas. A lot of women in other countries are nice mainly because they depend on a man for survival, it is not so with AWs, at least not now but in the future things are going to change.

JD, Germany??? Did you check out the FKK section on this website??!! Its huge, and still a good deal even with the lousy Euro to US Dollar exchange rate.

[Jelly Donut]

JD, Germany??? Did you check out the FKK section on this website??!! Its huge, and still a good deal even with the lousy Euro to US Dollar exchange rate.

I'll check it out, but would you really put Germany in the short list of the best places to spend a precious short vacation? The simple fact that it is developed country means to me that everything costs more, regardless of the exchange rate. I've run into a fair share of Germans in South America and the Dominican Republic who seem to be pretty happy there. But, I'll check it out - honestly I've not read that section much before....

[Mike12]

I wonder how the effect of the declining economic status of the USA will have on the behavior of AWs, will they be different during more leaner times? Part of the reason for their behavior, actually most of it has to do with money and opportunity. American women up until now have been financially much better off and had many avenues for economic gain compared to women overseas. A lot of women in other countries are nice mainly because they depend on a man for survival, it is not so with AWs, at least not now but in the future things are going to change.

JD, Germany??? Did you check out the FKK section on this website??!! Its huge, and still a good deal even with the lousy Euro to US Dollar exchange rate.

Recently gave directions to two very attractive young German blonde chicks that could not have been any genuinely nicer. They could not find their hotel which was a block away. It was very startling talking to them, because in NYC I am convinced women are cloned in a lab like robots somewhere and sent down the factory line to be shipped here.

[CBGBConnisur]

Well it is probably a good idea to do it quick because the US Dollar is soon only going to buy a measly .40 Euro cents, as I said the continual depreciation of the US Dollar is really going to mess up the US economy, because the US depends upon consumption to fuel growth not the export of goods. Whoever said the US Dollar was purposely devalued to make US Exports more competitive is full of it, the trade deficit continues to grow. Oddly enough the Canadian and Australian dollar, though they buy less than the US Dollar will remain steady against the Euro.

Peter Schiff, who is Mr Gloom and Doom for the Greenback, seems to be the most realistic voice on the US Dollar and he has remarked that a major shift in wealth is moving overseas from the US to other countries, particularly Europe and Asia.

[Bango Cheito]

I say the same thing, the falling dollar is supposed to help our exports? WHAT EXPORTS? We outsourced 95% of everything already! :P

[George90]

Whoever said the US Dollar was purposely devalued to make US Exports more competitive is full of it, the trade deficit continues to grow.

That was me! LOL!

Yes, the trade deficit is still large. But you haven't been reading the financial pages. The value of imports is still rising due to our huge dependence on imported oil and oil's high price. However, US manufacturers reported HUGE increases in exports in August, lead by aircraft, autos, and auto parts. The US also exports a great deal of specialty chemicals.

Those exports should increase further in September and October as the recent cut in interests rates have sent the dollar down even more. (It sure is a damn stupid time for the UAW to call a strike!)

[Capt Ajax]

That was me! LOL!

Yes, the trade deficit is still large. But you haven't been reading the financial pages. The value of imports is still rising due to our huge dependence on imported oil and oil's high price. However, US manufacturers reported HUGE increases in exports in August, lead by aircraft, autos, and auto parts. The US also exports a great deal of specialty chemicals.

Those exports should increase further in September and October as the recent cut in interests rates have sent the dollar down even more. (It sure is a damn stupid time for the UAW to call a strike!)

What manufacturing?? Most U.S manufacturing jobs have been outsourced
to other countries. We are headed for a very severe economic collapse the likes we have never seen before.

Some sobering news from one of the worlds leading experts on credit -derivatives.

Are we headed for an epic bear market?

The credit bubble is just starting to unwind, a credit-derivative insider says. And while U.S. borrowers are being blamed for the mess, they were really just pawns in a global game.

Satyajit Das is laughing. It appears I have said something very funny, but I have no idea what it was. My only clue is that the laugh sounds somewhat pitying.

One of the world's leading experts on credit derivatives, Das is the author of a 4,200-page reference work on the subject, among a half-dozen other tomes. As a developer and marketer of the exotic instruments himself over the past 30 years. He seemed like the ideal industry insider to help us get to the bottom of the recent debt crunch -- and I expected him to defend and explain the practice.

I started by asking the Calcutta-born Australian whether the credit crisis was in what Americans would call the "third inning." This was pretty amusing, it seemed, judging from the laughter. So I tried again. "Second inning?" More laughter. "First?"

Still too optimistic. Das, who knows as much about global money flows as anyone in the world, stopped chuckling long enough to suggest that we're actually still in the middle of the national anthem before a game destined to go into extra innings. And it won't end well for the global economy.

Like an ex-mobster turning state's witness, Das has turned his back on his old pals in the derivatives biz to warn anyone who will listen -- mostly banks and hedge funds that pay him consulting fees -- that the jig is up.

Rather than joining the crowd that blames the mess on American slobs who took on more mortgage debt than they could afford and have endangered the world by stiffing lenders, he points a finger at three parties: regulators who stood by as U.S. banks developed ingenious but dangerous ways of shifting trillions of dollars of credit risk off their balance sheets and into the hands of unsophisticated foreign investors; hedge and pension fund managers who gorged on high-yield debt instruments they didn't understand; and financial engineers who built towers of "securitized" debt with math models that were fundamentally flawed.

"Defaulting middle-class U.S. homeowners are blamed, but they are merely a pawn in the game," he says. "Those loans were invented so that hedge funds would have high-yield debt to buy."

The liquidity factory

Das' view sounds cynical, but it makes sense if you stop thinking about mortgages as a way for people to finance houses and think about them instead as a way for lenders to generate cash flow and create collateral during an era of a flat interest-rate curve.Although subprime U.S. loans seem like small change in the context of the multitrillion-dollar debt market, it turns out these high-yield instruments were an important part of the machine that Das calls the global "liquidity factory." Just like a small amount of gasoline can power an entire truck given the right combination of spark plugs, pistons and transmission, subprime loans became the fuel that underlays derivative securities many, many times their size.

How it worked

Here's how it worked: In olden days, like 10 years ago, banks wrote and funded their own loans. In the new game, Das points out, banks "originate" loans, "warehouse" them on their balance sheet for a brief time, then "distribute" them to investors by packaging them into derivatives called collateralized debt obligations, or CDOs, and similar instruments. In this scheme, banks don't need to tie up as much capital, so they can put more money out on loan.

The more loans that were sold, the more they could use as collateral for more loans, so credit standards were lowered to get more paper out the door -- a task that was accelerated in recent years via fly-by-night brokers now accused of predatory lending practices.

Buyers of these credit risks in CDO form were insurance companies, pension funds and hedge-fund managers from Bonn to Beijing. Because money was readily available at low interest rates in Japan and the United States, these managers leveraged up their bets by buying the CDOs with borrowed funds.

So if you follow the bouncing ball, borrowed money bought borrowed money. And then because they had the blessing of credit-ratings agencies relying on mathematical models suggesting that they would rarely default, these CDOs were in turn used as collateral to do more borrowing.

In this way, Das points out, credit risk moved from banks, where it was regulated and observable, to places where it was less regulated and difficult to identify.

Turning $1 into $20

The liquidity factory was self-perpetuating and seemingly unstoppable. As assets bought with borrowed money rose in value, players could borrow more money against them, and it thus seemed logical to borrow even more to increase returns. Bankers figured out how to strip money out of existing assets to do so, much as a homeowner might strip equity from his house to buy another house.

These triple-borrowed assets were then in turn increasingly used as collateral for commercial paper -- the short-term borrowings of banks and corporations -- which was purchased by supposedly low-risk money market funds.

According to Das' figures, up to 53% of the $2.2 trillion commercial paper in the U.S. market is now asset-backed, with about 50% of that in mortgages.

When you add it all up, according to Das' research, a single dollar of "real" capital supports $20 to $30 of loans. This spiral of borrowing on an increasingly thin base of real assets, writ large and in nearly infinite variety, ultimately created a world in which derivatives outstanding earlier this year stood at $485 trillion -- or eight times total global gross domestic product of $60 trillion.

Without a central governmental authority keeping tabs on these cross-border flows and ensuring a standard of record-keeping and quality, investors increasingly didn't know what they were buying or what any given security was really worth.

A painful unwinding

Now here is where the U.S. mortgage holder shows up again. As subprime loan default rates doubled, in contravention of what the models forecast, the CDOs those mortgages backed began to collapse. Because they were so hard to value, banks and funds started looking at all CDOs and other paper backed by mortgages with suspicion, and refused to accept them as collateral for the sort of short-term borrowing that underpins today's money markets.

Through late last month, according to Das, as much as $300 billion in leveraged finance loans had been "orphaned," which means that they can't be sold off or used as collateral.

One of the wonders of leverage is that it amplifies losses on the way down just as it amplifies gains on the way up. The more an asset that is bought with borrowed money falls in value, the more you have to sell other stuff to fulfill the loan-to-value covenants. It's a vicious cycle. In this context, banks' objective was to prevent customers from selling their derivates at a discount because they would then have to mark down the value of all the other assets in the debt chain, an event that would lead to the need to make margin calls on customers already thin on cash.

Correction may be an overstatement

Now it may seem hard to believe, but much of the past few years' advance in the stock market was underwritten by CDO-type instruments which go under the heading of "structured finance." I'm talking about private-equity takeovers, leveraged buyouts and corporate stock buybacks -- the works.

So to the extent that the structured finance market is coming undone, not only will those pillars of strength for equities be knocked away, but many recent deals that were predicated on the easy availability of money will likely also go bust, Das says.

That is why he considers the current market volatility much more profound than a simple "correction" in prices. He sees it as a gigantic liquidity bubble unwinding -- a process that can take a long, long time.

While you might think that the U.S. Federal Reserve can help prevent disaster by lowering interest rates dramatically, as they did Wednesday, the evidence is not at all clear.

The problem, after all, is not the amount of money in the system but the fact that buyers are in the process of rejecting the entire new risk-transfer model and its associated leverage and counterparty risks.

Lower rates will not help that. "At best," Das says, "they help smooth the transition."

[Dickhead]

Here is an idea. Why don't you guys STFU up about foreign currency and get back the topic?

I will start. I have an American friend who comes to where I live quite often and he likes to use Craig's List. Some American woman posted she wanted to meet American men down here, to take her to dinner at nice restaurants.

So my friend writes to her and says, "Honey, why would an American man want to meet an American woman down here, and buy her a steak dinner, when the local women will fuck you bareback for the price of a steak dinner?"

Now THAT was funny.

[CBGBConnisur]

I am only talking about the money, because we need Vitamin M in order to go overseas for those putas and chicas. With the dollar going down the crapper, its going to become more difficult to leave the sex prison.

[Leeuwen]

Yes it is true that military equipment is now cheaper, and I knew Cheney was Pres of Halliburton, he is also swapping all his dollars for Euros too. Still the overall effect of the dollar weakening really has no benefit for the economy.
Saudi Arabia is allegedly "preparing to break the dollar currency peg" (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/09/19/bcnsaudi119.xml) and instead peg the riyal to euro. Further, considering analysts are calculating with yet a 30% slide in USD exchange rate, needless to say, these are bad news to the US dollar. Foreign investments in the USA get less profitable, as USD falls. Additionally, the Chinese probably aren't too happy about watching their pile of dollars evaporate. Expect Chinese pressure on Americans on this issue.

Recent interest cut is a desperate short term measure to save mortage bankers. It won't help US economy as whole. There is much more that has to be fixed. As of today, dollar set a new record low vs. euro - 1,413

[Capt Ajax]

Here is an idea. Why don't you guys STFU up about foreign currency and get back the topic?

I will start. I have an American friend who comes to where I live quite often and he likes to use Craig's List. Some American woman posted she wanted to meet American men down here, to take her to dinner at nice restaurants.

So my friend writes to her and says, "Honey, why would an American man want to meet an American woman down here, and buy her a steak dinner, when the local women will fuck you bareback for the price of a steak dinner?"

Now THAT was funny.

Hey DH it's important because as the U.S dollar continues to erode in value the only thing American hobbyists will be able to afford is a do it yourself HJ.

[Dickhead]

Yawn. Start a new thread or go ***** about it on Yahoo Finance or some such. Europeans will have a greater ability to fuck American women so you guys won't have to buy them expensive dinners in order to not get laid, so you can travel on the money you save not buying them dinners.

[Jelly Donut]

That's funny. I didn't think Europeans needed any help screwing American girls....

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34198


Yawn. Start a new thread or go ***** about it on Yahoo Finance or some such. Europeans will have a greater ability to fuck American women so you guys won't have to buy them expensive dinners in order to not get laid, so you can travel on the money you save not buying them dinners.

[CBGBConnisur]

The Onion is satire. Nothing else. Many fine Eastern European women in the former Soviet bloc states that will make you forget about American women. The Italian artist thing is a cliche. I actually thought the dollar was going to go down the crapper years ago, now my predictions are coming true. A couple of German girls I talked to said they like American guys a lot more, in fact, the vast majority of European girls I met gave a very different impression of their mating prospects, a Ukrainian girl I met openly said most men in her country were drunken wife beaters who sat around at home unemployed.

[Dickhead]

"a Ukrainian girl I met openly said most men in her country were drunken wife beaters who sat around at home unemployed."

They say that here too, openly. I would say that American women would never put up with that shit but then there is my brother-in-law who has not worked in years, although he is not a wife beater and drinks moderately. There is also my ex-friend the "musician" who is a terrible musician who has never made any money at it. He hasn't worked in about ten years. He doesn't beat her but he is a stoner. Boy is his girlfriend a fat, ugly pig. But she is a doctor who is almost finished with law school. Why she puts up with his loser ass is beyond me. I finally told him I could not be friends with a man who was content to permanently let a woman bust her ass to support him. He had a hard time understanding that.

Wife/GF beating is very common here, perhaps the number two national sport after soccer. My friend's sister's husband recently beat her because she refused to do anal.

[Chocha Monger]

Interestingly some of these women seek out guys from their own countries after getting some American guy to sponsor their visa. I have very little confidence in what women say, I prefer to observe what they do regardless of which country they live in.

[CBGBConnisur]

I think the whole "Rich American" abroad thing is becoming something of the past. Flying to the states there was this guy who was complaining to the cabin crew to give him a better seat because he was American, it didn't fly with the crew. I also noticed the approach doesn't work so well particularly because of the fact that the dollar is in a freefall. Someone mentioned our granddaughters might be giving blows to Asians for cheapies, I think it might happen a lot sooner than that given the way things are going.

[Jelly Donut]

Someone mentioned our granddaughters might be giving blows to Asians for cheapies, I think it might happen a lot sooner than that given the way things are going.

Why does it matter to anyone who's getting blow jobs and who's giving them in a couple of generations? I'm sure French girls have sucked a fair bit of foriegn cock since everything went south in 1812.

It doesn't change the fact that Paris is a great city or that, frankly, if the French decided to avenge themselves for all those blowjobs they have enough nukes to make everyone feel the pain.

At any rate, I'd say the average income of the American male sex tourist is slightly over $100,000 per year. This number comes from brushing through statistics at the U.S. Department of Commerce, Office of Travel & Tourism Industries.

The dollar would have to do a serious devaluation and a triple lux in order to start seeing an influx of Chinese sex tourists to the USA. The average income in Asia still has a long way to go before significant numbers of Chinese start showing up in Brazil, looking to get laid, let alone the United States.

Beyond that, the Chinese government has been a complete pain in the butt for the past few years, refusing to revalue the yuan in spite of repeated efforts to get them to do so. They did this simply so they could keep their little machine exporting inexpensive goods to the United States.

So, if they want to dump dollars now, more power to them. I don't think they can afford it - it's sort of a variation on the quote by J. Paul Getty "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem."

[Rock Dog]

Fuck the Chinese.

They're losing money on their US investments? Good, what goes around comes around!

Most of the stuff they make is crap.... and that's the stuff that's good enough to export. They should let their currency find it's own level instead of keeping it artificially low. And they definitely shouldn't complain when someone else lowers their own currency in response.

What's more, their country looks to be headed for some problems of it's own, according to Stratfor.

Just to be fair though, some chinese food is pretty good.... and some chinese women are REALLY good!

Rock

[Dickhead]

SHUT THE FUCK UP about financial and political bullshit and start talking about PUSSY, you fucking cretins.

[Polvo]

That's funny. I didn't think Europeans needed any help screwing American girls....

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34198

Didn't you hear about the Frenchman who fell asleep the minute his feet hit the pillow?

Polvo

[CBGBConnisur]

Things are now headed uphill for the Europeans, the Euro is going to hit newer highs against the Dollar and the Chinese are going to be partly behind it. Even the big man Alan Greenspan is now touting that the Euro will become the new world currency. Peter Schiff says a major devaluation is going to continue with regards to the dollar and its position as a reserve currency is going to end.
Most of the hookers in Paris these days come from the Eastern bloc.

Sorry you can't fuck the Chinese, US liquidity depends upon them and the oil producing nations, that is why people can fund nearly endless debt in the US. There are so many people I know in the States who practically live off of credit cards, and this is unique to Americans because of the fact that the US can fund nearly endless debt, but this party is coming to an end if the Chinese start switching to the Euro, some oil producers already have plans to do this.

Money makes the whole world go round, and it buys the pussy. Did you really think those foreign girls liked us for our personalities?

[Jelly Donut]

Crystal Mangum & Mike Nifong ~ The Twins Tips of the American Social Iceburg.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=14104&R=115082C92

[Dickhead]

"admitted before the meeting that she had taken ambien, methadone, paxil and amitriptyline."

that combination ought to mess you up pretty good. i don't know what amitriptyline is but given the other three i don't think it matters too much. the phrase "nappy headed ho" comes to mind.

[CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) is a touchy subject. you have a four-way matrix, to my way of thinking:

1) [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) that occur and are reported. these are heinous.
2) [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) that occur and are not reported. these are heinous.
3) [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) that don't occur and are reported. these are heinous.
4) [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) that don't occur and are not reported. these are most guys' sex lives in the us.

so this nifong did one day in jail and this ho is still wandering around out there, trolling for victims. the ho is a waste of skin and this nifong should be doing a nickel upstate. he'd be somebody's ***** pretty quick, i am thinking.

always remember: you can't [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) the willing. so monger as necessary, and do not force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. i would not be posting this except the system is down so i can't do any work, the local brothel has only fuglies at this hour, and my preferred destination will not open for another hour and a half. therefore i am forced, forced i tell you, to drink beer at 8:30 am. but no one has to coerce me to do so.

[Jelly Donut]

The Breeze Shifts, Duke President Now Sways The Other Way

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Duke-Lacrosse.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[CBGBConnisur]

in the us, simply being accused of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) is good enough to ruin your entire life. even if those duke students are let off, their names will forever be tarnished. interesting how in these cases, the identities of the suspects are made public but never the victim. as a whole the us and most other english speaking nations are anti male, and a result you are seeing the moral and social breakdown of these societies. even in cases against parents, the court will throw the book at an accused father but in many cases the mothers walk free, and there are some horrible cases of mothers abusing their children.

it is extremely risky business to mess around with an american woman, one call to the cops, and her words can land you in chino or fulsom state.

[Jelly Donut]

for better or worse, there are certainly a lot more things that pass for [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) in the united states today than, say, 30 years ago.

things have apparently shifted culturally, too, since the 1960s. ignoring race, i'm pretty sure 50 years ago no court would have even heard the cases against kobe bryant or william kennedy smith - both situations where they met a woman in a bar for the first time and within minutes they were either alone with them in a hotel room or on the beach at night. it used to be this sort of behavior was just considered dumb for a non-working girl; people would assume the girl who engaged in it was working.

things are processed differently these days. personally, i would like to think a girl should be able to go for a walk on a beach with the stranger at night and expect to be safe. most people feel that way. but the real practical upshot of the legal and cultural changes of the past few years is that you get more girls like crystal mangum who turn a dispute over payment into a [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) case. it's not much safer for women to be alone with guys they don't know (if anything, technology has had a much bigger impact in terms of making things safer than legal and cultural shifts - cameras everywhere, cell phones, dna evidence, etc.).

nearly all the most well-known [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) cases in the united states in recent history seem to confirm what feminists label the "myth" the that women falsify charges or that law enforcement falsifies evidence - kobe bryant, william kennedy smith, central park jogger case, tawana brawley and this duke case. the only well-known conviction that held i can think of is the mike tyson/desiree washington thing.

juries still end up at the same point they would have 50 years ago. realistically, it's just stupid to assume a woman who puts herself alone with a stranger is going into it blind. if it comes down to "he said, she said" in a courtroom, most guys, and many women, are going to wonder what the girl was thinking going up to the strangers hotel room. she might have ultimately said "no", but all the evidence implies "yes". we're supposed to throw a guy in jail for years for this?

[Dodger Bulldog]

the major difficulty with statutes concerning [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) is that they treat every incident as an equal offense in the eyes of the law. consider two different sitations, both of which would result in the exact same penalty if convicted:

1. a man invites a woman for dinner. after dining, drinks, and a long makeout session, they retire to the bedroom, get undressed and engage in foreplay. upon the man nearing entry, the woman states "no, not tonight." in the absence of any physical resistance offered by the woman, the man proceeds to enter her.

2. a man breaks into a car, hides in the back seat, and then forces a woman to drive to the woods, where he proceeds to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) her.

these are hardly identical crimes, but they have identical consequences under the law. and the first scenario is much more common than the second one.

compare that to our laws concerning murder. there is murder in the first degree, second degree, and manslaughter, both voluntary and involuntary. thus, society recognizes four separate and distinct levels of culpability, as determined by the circumstances and intent.

however, under [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) law the offense is "all or none."

if my fellow feminists wished to straighten out the law to follow common sense and in turn achieve more convictions, they would work to define the different levels of the offense.

however, they will never do this, as it would undermine their theories that "no always means no," and that [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) is always about power, and never about sex.

i think we all instinctively know that sometimes no means no, and sometimes it means the woman wants some more persuasion and foreplay first.

when i was married, my wife would often start with "no," but after i had sweet talked her and told her how much i loved her and needed her that night, she would often change her mind and we would proceed to have great sex.

my guess is that almost every man has had the experience of watching a woman's answer change from no to yes. alternately, he has also experienced a woman's answer change from yes to no.

it often depends on how smoothly things moved along (or didn't). and that is always going to make it extremely difficult for a jury consisting of people who have lived in the real world and who have an understanding of the nuances involved in relationships between the sexes.

if they have a conscience, these jurors are not likely to convict a man of so-called "date-[CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)" and lock him up just the same as if he had broken into the back seat of a car and laid in wait for an unsuspecting victim to arrive.

db

[CBGBConnisur]

the media was going to turn kobe bryant into the new michael jordan, but that case completely ruined his image, he lost all of his sponsorship contracts, he still has a professional basketball career but his image was nothing like it was before the [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) case, maybe that's why shaq moved to miami? in general there is major male bashing going on, particularly against pro sports stars, look at michael vick. david beckham is an exception because he seems to coo the fems.

[Doctor_Skank]

the media was going to turn kobe bryant into the new michael jordan, but that case completely ruined his image, he lost all of his sponsorship contracts, he still has a professional basketball career but his image was nothing like it was before the [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) case, maybe that's why shaq moved to miami? in general there is major male bashing going on, particularly against pro sports stars, look at michael vick. david beckham is an exception because he seems to coo the fems.

michael vick deserves everything he gets. as for kobe, no one really knows what happened. i tend to think the truth was somewhere in the middle. he shoulda been more careful in any case.

truth is, us pro athletes have to be really careful. there are lots of women out there looking to have their babies or cry [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) when things don't go as they planned.

as for becks, he doesn't have to worry about anything since posh has him in her back pocket. he's been neutralized to paying the bills, just like a "good" boy should.

[Sasha Coffee]

years ago a star got laid. so what that was part of his celebrity status. the sad thing now is the sorry little tart he screwed can get famous off his back. eg divine brown and hugh grant. so the natural evolution of the star getting laid is the star getting laid then being charged with [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123). we live in a society that is obsessed with fame. even paris hilton going to jail was on every station. it doesn't matter how you get famous as long as you are famous. so if a [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) complaint gets you famous alot of girls will look at that favourably.

i'm quite sure that some cases are definitely [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and some case aren't. the ones that aren't are the saddest.

i have a vision of the future with date contracts being signed before dates, much like a pre nuptial before marriage.

although i don't want to be trying to date when this happens.

[Jelly Donut]

The Garden, Nicks Deemed Dysfunctional, Hostile and Lewd

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/02/sports/basketball/03garden-cnd.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[Chocha Monger]

by mike celizic
todayshow.com contributor
updated: 11:32 a.m. ct oct 3, 2007
like many men, toby byrum decided to have a vasectomy to end his reproductive years. unlike most of them, byrum had his at the age of 28 while he is still single and childless.

two years later, the web consultant from jackson hole, wyoming, has no regrets.

“i view the next 15-20 years of my life as some of the best years i’m going to live. i wanted to make sure those years were . . . going to make me ultimately the happiest person i could be,” he told today co-host matt lauer.

he’s not alone. urologists around the country say that they are seeing a small but growing number of young men who are deciding to have vasectomies when they are young, all but insuring that they will never be able to have children of their own.

“it’s kind of getting to be a departure from this society – a wife, a husband, have kids, live in the suburbs, – and instead is more, ‘maybe we don’t want to have kids,’ “ byrum said.

what makes byrum different from most men who undergo the procedure at such a young age is that he did not ‘bank' sperm before having his vas deferens – the tubes that convey sperm from the testicles – severed in a 20-minute out-patient surgical procedure.

“for me, it’s an ultimate decision, and therefore i did not want an escape hatch,” byrum said.

young, good-looking, and out-going, byrum leads an active life, enjoys the outdoors and hopes to get married some day. he said he likes children; he just doesn’t want any of his own.

the 'ultimate' decision
he doesn’t hide his decision from women he dates.

“the first date, if not before,” he said. “i live in a small area, so some people are already aware of this. i bring it up quickly. there’s no reason to waste anybody’s time. if someone has a different idea for themselves, i don’t want to get in the way.”

in second today segment with natalie morales, in which he responded to viewer email questions, byrum admitted that for some women, the news is an automatic deal-breaker. but he’d rather know that from the start rather than continue a relationship under false assumptions on either side.

morales said she was surprised that many women who emailed supported and approved of his decision.

byrum is the only male child in his family, and if he does not reproduce, the family line will die out. lauer asked if that was a consideration.

“after thinking about it, it really isn’t a factor to me in wanting to have kids or not,” byrum said. in a pre-interview, he added that he thought that having a child simply to continue his legacy would be selfish.

he said he felt early in his 20s that he didn’t want to ever have children, but took several years to make certain he wanted to make a decision that is not easily reversed.

according to sex therapist laura berman, a vasectomy can be reversed more easily than a tubal ligation for a woman, which is nearly impossible to undo. “there’s some success reversing it up to eight years,” she said of a vasectomy. “but you really should look at is a permanent solution.”

berman also said that men contemplating the procedure should be sure that they’re not doing it because of issues they may have had growing up that could be addressed in therapy.

byrum said he had no such issues. he also found no resistance from urologists he approached.

“they didn’t want to offer their opinion; they wanted it to be my decision,” he said.

berman said that byrum’s decision is part of an overall trend. “any birth control, we’re seeing more and more men taking control of family planning, and in extreme cases like this making the decision that they absolutely don’t want children and deciding to have a vasectomy,” she told morales.

lauer asked him if it were possible that at some point 10 or more years down the line, he might decide he wants children after all.

“it’s theoretically possible, but you make the best decision you can make with the information available at the time,” byrum said.

he then offered some advice for other men in his condition considering having a vasectomy and never having children.

“you need to make it with the mindset that it is an ultimate decision. it’s something you’re doing and setting up that next period in your life and how you’re going to live it. for that person to make that decision, they need to truly understand that it’s a no-going-back deal.”

[Dickhead]

I had mine at 24 and it was hard to find a doctor who would do it.

[Jelly Donut]

More on the swirling connection between the American woman, the American legal community and vulgar absurdity.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-ap-strip-search-hoax,0,5396095.story

[Chocha Monger]

i recently had dinner with a rotund american woman. she works in the same building as i do and happened to hear me mentioning that i had not sampled a particular dish in quite some time, so she said that she knew the location of a restaurant that served a delicious version of said dish. anyway, i agreed to let her show me the location on her way home. i followed in my car until we got to the restaurant where she asked if she could join me for dinner. i wasn’t keen on this but i did not want to be rude seeing that this heifer worked in the same organization that i did and could make things uncomfortable if she felt slighted.

we both ordered and while waiting she started making small talk asking my age and other personal details which i rebuffed. she invited me to accompany her on some outings but i told her that i had a girlfriend who wouldn’t appreciate me spending time with another female outside of business. that was hardly a speed bump and she continued her interrogation. finally, i decided to change the subject of the conversation to her and not me. she told me that she did not date men from the local area. she said that any man who had to pay child support or work two jobs to pay his bills was not for her. i smirked and asked her what if he was a really nice honest guy but had to work two jobs to get ahead? certainly that was better than being a thief wasn’t it? she said that it didn’t matter what kind of person he was, she just didn’t want a man that had to work that hard for a living.

i was amazed. here was this obese unattractive american woman who considered herself too good for a hard working man. i wondered to myself if she ever looked at herself in the mirror and how she could possibly say a thing like that when indeed she would be lucky if a man… any man, showed interest in her. she not only had a corpulent body but a very overweight ego as well. i told her that she would probably end up marrying a guy lower down the social ladder than the one i mentioned. she said that she would remain single then. she then said that she could see me marrying with someone from the local area and settling down with some kids. i howled with laughter and told her that she obviously didn’t know me quite well and that i loved my money too much to do anything so foolish. this seemed to enrage her a bit and she asked if i didn’t want to leave my genes behind. i replied that didn’t really concern me since the world was already over populated but if she felt the need to leave her genes behind to further contribute to the situation i would not be critical. well, she got into a huff and said that i was being mean. i said that i was not being mean but she was being rude wishing children and marriage upon me when that clearly wasn’t on my agenda. i informed her that i did not date american women and found the idea of marrying one to be offensive to the point of being an insult. she was stunned and asked me how i thought that she felt hearing this since she was an american woman. i said that it shouldn’t matter to her because it was a personal choice not a matter of public opinion.

i excused myself saying that i had a prior engagement and left. clearly, this aw had some unrealistic expectations. one can only imagine what kind of man the skinny ones think they deserve!

[Dickhead]

Excellent work, CM! I will contribute this:

THIS APPEARED ON CRAIG'S LIST!!!

"What am I doing wrong?

Okay, I'm tired of beating around the bush. I'm a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25 year old girl. I'm articulate and classy.I'm not from New York. I'm looking to get married to a guy who makes at least half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don't think I'm overreaching at all.

Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives?
Could you send me some tips? I dated a business man who makes average around 200-250. But that's where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000 won't get me to central park west. I know a woman in my yoga class who was
married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she's not as pretty
as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?

Here are my questions specifically:

Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics - bars,restaurants, gyms -What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won't hurt my feelings -Is there an age range I should be targeting (I'm 25)? Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the upper east side so plain? I've seen really 'plain jane' boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I've seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the east village. What's the story there?

- Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows - lawyer, investment
banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they
hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?

How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for MARRIAGE ONLY

Please hold your insults - I'm putting myself out there in an honest way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I'm being up front about it. I wouldn't be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn't able to match them - in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth."

* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with
services or other commercial interests

PostingID: 432279810

THE ANSWER

"Dear Pers-431649184: I read your posting with great interest and have thought meaningfully about your dilemma. I offer the following analysis of your predicament.

Firstly, I'm not wasting your time, I qualify as a guy who fits your bill; that is I make more than $500K per year. That said here's how I see it.

Your offer, from the perspective of a guy like me, is plain and simple a crappy business deal. Here's why. Cutting through all the B.S., what you suggest is a simple trade: you bring your looks to the party and I bring my money. Fine, simple. But here's the rub, your looks will fade and my money will likely continue into perpetuity...in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won't be getting any more beautiful!

So, in economic terms you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset. Not only are you a depreciating asset, your depreciation accelerates! Let me explain, you're 25 now and will likely stay pretty hot for the next 5 years, but less so each year. Then the fade begins in earnest. By 35 stick a fork in you!

So in Wall Street terms, we would call you a trading position, not a buy and hold...hence the rub...marriage. It doesn't make good business sense to 'buy you' (which is what you're asking) so I'd rather lease. In case you think I'm being cruel, I would say the following. If my money were to go away, so would you, so when your beauty fades I need an out. It's as simple as that. So a deal that makes sense is dating, not marriage.

Separately, I was taught early in my career about efficient markets. So,I wonder why a girl as 'articulate, classy and spectacularly beautiful' as you has been unable to find your sugar daddy. I find it hard to believe that if you are as gorgeous as you say you are that the $500K hasn't found you, if not only for a tryout.

By the way, you could always find a way to make your own money and then we wouldn't need to have this difficult conversation.

With all that said, I must say you're going about it the right way. Classic 'pump and dump.' I hope this is helpful, and if you want to enter into some sort of lease, let me know."

I believe the respondent will make a fine monger some day, if he isn't one already! And, we all know what the OP already is.

[Rubber Nursey]

LMAO! That response was priceless!!! :)

Beautiful and articulate she may be... classy, she ain't.

[Bango Cheito]

For all the 'liberated' we are supposed to be in America, unfortauntely this mentality still predominates. Everybody is looking for the easy way out :P

[Happy Chappy]

LMAO! That response was priceless!!! :)

Beautiful and articulate she may be... classy, she ain't.

agree what an answer! made me laugh, yet from a technical point of view, the answer was so perfect.

[Prokofiev]

I had mine at 24 and it was hard to find a doctor who would do it.

. . . and I think we all can agree, the world is a safer place due to this fine medical professional!

HaHa, Chears, -P

[Sasha Coffee]

Congratulations on your posts. Both made me laugh till I fell off my chair with tears running down my face.

CM Your dinner sounds like you picked the woman from hell. Even if it wasn't a date she was checking you out for prospective fatherhood and fat pay check.

Dickhead. Its hard to believe that women like this haven't found being a hooker a viable occupation. She can make a good income and not have to worry about settling down with some man. I wonder if she has ever considered being a groupie to a rap singer. The reply is hillarious and so totally accurate its scary.

Thanks for putting a smile on my dial that was sorely needed on a Monday morning.

[Paddy]

CM,

Had a similar experience several years ago. In this case, however, the American woman I was having dinner with was actually in pretty good shape and quite attractive. I was "interrogated" just like you. When I did not express any definitve interest in her she began to ask indirectly if I was "gay." Huh??? Actually, she was rather skillful and discreet in her line of questioning about my being "gay" and why I was not kneeling before her feminine charms. She seemed to be genuinely miffed.

When I told her that I only date foreign women and particularly women from Eastern Europe, she went ballistic and made quite a scene at the restaurant. She was loud, finger pointing, etc. It was quite a show and when I smiled at her she became even more enraged. Everyone in the restaurant was staring at me. Hey, she asked and I told her.

My primary conclusion was that AW don't want Tatiana, Svetlana or Isabella threatening the sweet deal that they have going here in the states. BTW, at the conclusion of this tortureous dinner she refused to contribute anything toward the bill (which was OK with me) despite the fact that she initiated dinner.

[CBGBConnisur]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1900628&page=1

This was an article about a man who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived. The most sad thing was that as he was about to jump off the bridge in attempt to end his life, a woman asked him if he could take a photo of her, what a b*tich.

There was a shooting in Wisconsin involving a cop and some women at some kind of social function. Frankly I am not surprised, because American society is driving males off the edge. Even that VA Tech shooting seemed to suggest AWs probably pushed that student off the edge. Also that one in Pennsylvania also suggest something, he let all the males in a school go free but shot all the females.

[George90]

In the New York Times today, there was an article about a woman who was sentenced to 5 years in prison for injuring her 1 month old infant daughter by smashing her head. How did she do that, you may ask????

Her husband had gone out drinking with his buddies without her permission. When he got home she pick up the child by the feet and SWUNG her at him. The child's head hit a wall and resulted in a concussion.

As jaded as I am, I am still amazed at how much some AWs feel they can get away with. Just how much entitlement does some of them feel they are owed???

[Johan007]

i recently had dinner with a rotund american woman. she works in the same building as i do and happened to hear me mentioning that i had not sampled a particular dish in quite some time, so she said that she knew the location of a restaurant that served a delicious version of said dish. anyway, i agreed to let her show me the location on her way home. i followed in my car until we got to the restaurant where she asked if she could join me for dinner. i wasn’t keen on this but i did not want to be rude seeing that this heifer worked in the same organization that i did and could make things uncomfortable if she felt slighted.

we both ordered and while waiting she started making small talk asking my age and other personal details which i rebuffed. she invited me to accompany her on some outings but i told her that i had a girlfriend who wouldn’t appreciate me spending time with another female outside of business. that was hardly a speed bump and she continued her interrogation. finally, i decided to change the subject of the conversation to her and not me. she told me that she did not date men from the local area. she said that any man who had to pay child support or work two jobs to pay his bills was not for her. i smirked and asked her what if he was a really nice honest guy but had to work two jobs to get ahead? certainly that was better than being a thief wasn’t it? she said that it didn’t matter what kind of person he was, she just didn’t want a man that had to work that hard for a living.

i was amazed. here was this obese unattractive american woman who considered herself too good for a hard working man. i wondered to myself if she ever looked at herself in the mirror and how she could possibly say a thing like that when indeed she would be lucky if a man… any man, showed interest in her. she not only had a corpulent body but a very overweight ego as well. i told her that she would probably end up marrying a guy lower down the social ladder than the one i mentioned. she said that she would remain single then. she then said that she could see me marrying with someone from the local area and settling down with some kids. i howled with laughter and told her that she obviously didn’t know me quite well and that i loved my money too much to do anything so foolish. this seemed to enrage her a bit and she asked if i didn’t want to leave my genes behind. i replied that didn’t really concern me since the world was already over populated but if she felt the need to leave her genes behind to further contribute to the situation i would not be critical. well, she got into a huff and said that i was being mean. i said that i was not being mean but she was being rude wishing children and marriage upon me when that clearly wasn’t on my agenda. i informed her that i did not date american women and found the idea of marrying one to be offensive to the point of being an insult. she was stunned and asked me how i thought that she felt hearing this since she was an american woman. i said that it shouldn’t matter to her because it was a personal choice not a matter of public opinion.

i excused myself saying that i had a prior engagement and left. clearly, this aw had some unrealistic expectations. one can only imagine what kind of man the skinny ones think they deserve!

may i be so bold to ask who paid the dinner???

yes i agree also here in western europe many women think they are gods gift to mankind......! even women in their late forties looking like utter shit think they can get a younger man...and guess what:

they do!!!!!!!!!!!!! purely on the fact of demografic factors:-(

i met allready plenty women here of 35-36 yo telling me (40 yo) that iam "too old". fts!!!

no mo marriage for this guy!!!;-)


johan

[Johan007]

CM,

Had a similar experience several years ago. In this case, however, the American woman I was having dinner with was actually in pretty good shape and quite attractive. I was "interrogated" just like you. When I did not express any definitve interest in her she began to ask indirectly if I was "gay." Huh??? Actually, she was rather skillful and discreet in her line of questioning about my being "gay" and why I was not kneeling before her feminine charms. She seemed to be genuinely miffed.

When I told her that I only date foreign women and particularly women from Eastern Europe, she went ballistic and made quite a scene at the restaurant. She was loud, finger pointing, etc. It was quite a show and when I smiled at her she became even more enraged. Everyone in the restaurant was staring at me. Hey, she asked and I told her.

My primary conclusion was that AW don't want Tatiana, Svetlana or Isabella threatening the sweet deal that they have going here in the states. BTW, at the conclusion of this tortureous dinner she refused to contribute anything toward the bill (which was OK with me) despite the fact that she initiated dinner.

I can confirm that Dutch or German women also are NOT very pleased if you tell them you date latinas. (or any other forreign women).
I just try to avoid the women here....in that case in my little shithole were i live there are not many single women and on my job most women are married or allready have a life partner:-) yes.....here I also got the "gay discussion"thing....pathetic.....
Offcourse I can't tell them of my fuck trips down South-America....!!! just imagine how that would be received;-) I would just be another "dirty pervert" ....:-(


cheers

Johan
(dutch guy living in Germany)

[Chocha Monger]

May i be so bold to ask who paid the dinner???
Johan
Each party paid.

Interesting that the 35-36 yrs old maids think that you're too old at 40 yrs though their reproductive machinery is nearing the end of its serviceable life. Many of these women start experiencing dryness, fibroids, ovarian cysts and other issues at this age. However, they can still find younger guys for a fuck or even marriage in some cases. I guess young guys have difficulty fucking girls their own age and short change themselves by settling for worn out "MILFs".

If you're not tied up supporting some hag's lifestyle then you will face attacks with the accusation of being "gay". Another favorite attack is the argument that one must be "pathetic" or a "pervert" to travel outside of one's country to meet women. Women see this off-shoring of sex and money as a serious threat to their power at home. They don't have any interest in fucking Joe Average but the fact that he travels abroad and fucks women much hotter than they are makes them very angry because they can't help but think that Prince Charming might get wise to the game too ruining their chances for marrying his money. It is no secret that many of these women have become accustomed to the free dinners and outings paid for by guys they have no interest in fucking at all.

[Jelly Donut]

Offcourse I can't tell them of my fuck trips down South-America....!!! just imagine how that would be received;-) I would just be another "dirty pervert" ....:-(



I always assumed mentioning trips to South America and Latin girlfriends was an excellent way to shutdown a conversation with an American girl. But last year I was cornered into a date with an aggressive, smart AW, who gave a solid effort at dragging me to the altar.

As a rule, I never mention dating SAWs to AWs - it's just rude. Sort of like telling someone "You're dating out of your league". It might be a good thing for them to know, but it's not my role to tell them. My job is to sit and make pleasant small talk till the check comes. For practice, if no other reason.

I don't give a crap if they think I'm gay. If, against odds, some excellent single AW ends up travelling in my American social circles and I want to ask her out it's going to be a lot easier if the word on the street is "He's gay" than if the scuttlebutt involves foriegn women.

At any rate, the aggressive, smart AW was such a pain. The type that doesn't take an indirect "no". You have to thwack them upside the head with the wine list and scream "I don't want any part of you, your biological urges, your family full of lawyers and all the ensuing crap that's likely to develop from spending any more time with you".

I just wanted her to leave me alone. So, pulling the trigger, I tossed out "Oh, yeah, I've got a girl in Colombia I've spent a bit of time with...."

She jumps back with "Oh, sure, I had a boyfriend in Honduras last year."

Desperately, I reached for the wine list....

[George90]

If you're not tied up supporting some hag's lifestyle then you will face attacks with the accusation of being "gay". Another favorite attack is the argument that one must be "pathetic" or a "pervert" to travel outside of one's country to meet women. Women see this off-shoring of sex and money as a serious threat to their power at home. They don't have any interest in fucking Joe Average but the fact that he travels abroad and fucks women much hotter than they are makes them very angry because they can't help but think that Prince Charming might get wise to the game too ruining their chances for marrying his money. It is no secret that many of these women have become accustomed to the free dinners and outings paid for by guys they have no interest in fucking at all.

I must really be bad news because I don't get accused of being gay have or anyone hitting on me or trying to hook me up with 'friends'. And I work in a female dominated industry. I think the thing is that I spend my money on travel and look it. I drive a used car. I don't wear and 'bling-bling' of any type. I don't wear flashy expensive clothes. And the kicker - I wear inexpensive shoes!

When a man looks like he doesn't have much money, he won't have ANY problems with AWs.

[George90]

I just wanted her to leave me alone. So, pulling the trigger, I tossed out "Oh, yeah, I've got a girl in Colombia I've spent a bit of time with...."

She jumps back with "Oh, sure, I had a boyfriend in Honduras last year."

Desperately, I reached for the wine list....

I would have kept the ball in her court with questions as to why she dated a Honduran, why she couldn't find a US man, if she wasn't interested in US men any more, etc.

I have noticed that increasing numbers of US women are dating or married to Asian men (Chinese, Indian). Based on the behavior of the men, I strongly suspect it is because AWs are able to find passive, compliant men among the immigrants from these countries.

[Ezinho]

hizark21 posted the link to this article in the tijuana thread, but i wanted to put it here as well, since it is just as relavent in the aw thread as the tj thread:

disneyland for grown men
by jennifer cooke

we mexican kids growing up in the '80s in the south bay of san diego heard stories of tijuana's red-light district, known as the cahuila (pronounced ca-hwe-la). we had never been there to see it, so it loomed in our imaginations as a place crowded with "houses of ill repute," "ladies of the night," and other exotic goings-on we didn't fully understand. its mystery made it useful in a cautionary way, such as "you better stop acting like such a **** or you'll end up working in the cahuila!" it could be employed as an insult: "i saw your mom in the cahuila!" since the spanish word for cage, jaula (pronounced how-la), sounds similar to cahuila, i imagined the place as a giant birdcage full of half-naked women, their limbs dangling from between the bars. (i later learned that the correct word is "coahuila," a street in tijuana's zona norte named after the state in mexico.)

just as i never believed my girlfriends would become hookers in a tijuana brothel, i never expected male friends to become customers. i viewed prostitution as a service used out of necessity by men who were unattractive, socially awkward, or married and looking for extramarital sex. perhaps a single man found himself at an age where he wasn't comfortable carousing in the gaslamp among girls who were much younger.

but david hernández (not his real name) is none of the above. with his dark hair and long eyelashes, he could pass for a more muscular, rugged version of oscar de la hoya. at 26, he is charming, funny, outgoing, educated, and employed. he says he has a wide social circle and enjoys clubbing and exercising -- a claim borne out by his tanned, toned bicep that peeks from the sleeve of his shirt.

hernández calls his favorite tijuana brothel "the happiest place on earth -- it's like disneyland for grown men!" he discovered it in 2002 on a jaunt south of the border with friends. "it wasn't as popular back then," he says, "but everybody knows about that spot now."

and by "everybody" he means guys like himself, the kind you might find downtown any night at the martini ranch or stingaree.

i come right out and say it: he could probably get any number of females in the gaslamp to go home with him. why pay for it? "it's just the beauty of no attachments and no commitments, no bs," he says. "you see a hot chick, you do your thing, and you never have to talk again."

tourism in tijuana has taken a devastating blow in the wake of 9/11, but you would never know it from hernández's description of a friday night in one of the oldest brothels in the coahuila. apparently, business is booming and the place filled to capacity with raucous guys partying like it's 1999 -- or any year before 2001.

hernández and his friends park at the shops at las americas in san ysidro and walk across the border to catch a cab. he tells the driver the name of the bar, "and the driver gives kind of a snicker and takes you straight over there." when the guys make preliminary stops on revolución, they take precautions: "we always make sure and put our [prostitution] money in our socks so we don't spend it!"

he and four other men i talk to are adamant that the girls are "gorgeous" and "stunning." hernández says, "there are some old, ugly ones but not many, and they don't get much attention from anybody."

while there is a dance floor, hernández says he's seen a girl dance only once in all the times he's been there. there is no pretense about the purpose of the establishment. "you're either drinking or [having sex] or both, or the staff kicks you out." hernández and his friends make the rounds of the room, looking for the best girls. the degree of small talk varies from sitting down together for a couple of drinks to walking straight up to the preferred girl and asking, "¿cuánto?" ("how much?"). hernández says he prefers the latter approach.

the going rate is $60. that gets you 20 to 30 minutes upstairs at the adjacent hotel, which can be entered from inside the bar. "when i first went, there was never any line for the hotel," he explains. "you just went straight up the stairs to the hole-in-the-wall front desk and paid $11 for the room. the last time i went, though, the line of people wrapped all the way around the inside of the bar along the wall. it's crazy how popular that place has gotten."

once inside the 10-by-12 room, hernández says there is no time to waste. a guy had better stick to the allotted time limit or someone will come knocking at the door "whether you are done or not. you don't mess around over there because they will [mess] with you if you act up."

as he describes the room, he cracks, "there's no telling when the bedspread and sheets were washed. you don't think about that at the time, though." his concern about cleanliness never goes further than the linens, however. what about sexually transmitted diseases? what about hiv? hernández's is one of the first generations to grow up with demonstrations in school of how to put a condom on a banana instead of grainy army training films about the dangers of getting a dose of the clap. he's never known a world without aids. so how can he blithely put himself at risk? another american coahuila regular tells me, "the girls all use condoms. and the girls are clean! they take a shower right in front of you!"

for his part, hernández says that every weekend can be risky, "whether in tj or in pacific beach on the prowl," and leaves it at that. one recurring theme i hear is that since prostitution is legal in mexico, tijuana's health department regularly tests the girls for sexually transmitted diseases. "you can't get that kind of guarantee from a random girl you meet over here," one man tells me.

so what is it about guys like hernández? is the traditional dating scene that tiresome? "if you think about it," he says, "it's cheaper altogether" to go to his favorite coahuila bar. "dinner, movies, concerts, gas money driving everywhere -- it's so much work, and this could take weeks with a girl you meet in san diego. in tj, you pay your money straight up, and you're done in 30 minutes. like me and my friends always say, all men pay for it one way or another."

the growing social acceptability in the united states of these "regular joes" becoming "regular johns" may not be occurring in tijuana. i meet luis in a quiet bar in chula vista, where he often comes after work before crossing the border to go home. he shoots pool with a coworker named brenda, and we chat after luis offers to buy me a drink. they seem excited to see a new face in their regular hangout, and even the bartender gets in on the conversation. after a few drinks, they say they are going dancing that night in tijuana, and i ask, "going anywhere near the coahuila?"

the smile leaves luis's face, and all chitchat comes to a halt. he puts his pool cue back in its case as he tells me no, he's not going anywhere near the coahuila. "you know why?" he asks me in spanish. "because my parents brought me up right. i don't go to places like that."

http://www.sdreader.com/php/cityshow.php?id=1726

notice the typical aw assumptions about prostitution at the beginning of the article ("i imagined the place as a giant birdcage full of half-naked women, their limbs dangling from between the bars." who the hell thinks like this?). then she goes into the typical assumption that only guys that are "unattractive" or "socially awkward" pay for sex. also, i find it very hard to believe that the last two paragraphs of this article are even true, unless "luis" is either extremely religious, or gay. i'm just going to assume that miss cooke made the last part of her essay up.

[Yogin]

I too at times am accused of being gay. I don't care.
I spend all my money on travel and longterm investments and look it. I drive an old Honda Civic. So I don't get the third degree too often. But when I do see an aggressive AW starting to get her claws into me or acquaintances wish to fix me up with their friend I simply shut down in a polite manner. This is effective in all aspects of my life including my professional world. I am quite adept at deflecting the nosy questions. I learned years ago to never mention my frequent trips to Japan or within the US to meet my Japanese internet friends. I used to tell people and be more open about that aspect of my life, but got sick of being labeled "desparate" for not accepting some fat manly AW who is out for my family's money and social status.

Funny how male sex tourists are considered criminal sexual predators at worst and skeevy perverts at best, while female sex tourists going to the Caribbean are glorified in Hollywood movies!

Thanks for the article Ezinho. Classic AW attitude and delusions. Disgust at the idea of sex honestly bought and sold as opposed to the typical AW tease/extortion/unfulfilled promise approach to sex, disbelief that an attractive well-adjusted young man would do it, retarded childish images of how it really goes down in TJ or any such place, and refusal to accept that these TJ workers are probably more STD-free than young drunken AW bar skanks. I'm sure the closing vignette is pure fiction. Her query resulted in deathly silence in the bar? Latino guy abruptly halts his pool game out of disgust? Uh huh.

Another issue. Latest analysis of census data shows that women age 21-30 in NY and several other major cities (I recall Minneapolis/Boston/SF perhaps) are making 18% MORE than their male counterparts! So much for the feminists ranting about being in a society "dominated" by the "patriarchy".

[Jelly Donut]

I would have kept the ball in her court with questions as to why she dated a Honduran, why she couldn't find a US man, if she wasn't interested in US men any more, etc.

Good questions, but I did not really care why she dated the people she dated. I just wanted the evening to end. I was really unhappy it did not come crashing to an end at the mere hint of South American women.

The fact that it did not crash, well, I think that would have been an encouraging sign if I had been interested in an ongoing conversation or even a relationship with her. I figure we may have shared some ideas about how the world works.

Also, I'm not clear on why finding a person who is "passive, compliant" is a bad thing, regardless. I'm not even sure I know what those words intend - seven months ago I took a young woman from behind, across a dining room table. She basically passively accepted everything I did to her. After, she seemed very happy that I was happy.

Such a tight little dress.

I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking about her. Personally, I feel like she has a lot of power over me, which she gained largely through being "passive". Relationships are complicated little machines, ya know.

[Sasha Coffee]

MILF

Oh help I am MILF. Please let me defend my breed just a bit. All MILF are not self obsessed man haters.

I love men. I don't expect them to pay for my dinner. I don't expect them to do all the chasing and I certainly don't expect all the men I got to bed with to be under 30. I also don't have any female health problems.

Yes I am proud to say I am nearing the end of child bearing age. I don't think this is a problem. In fact I think its a plus. There are many men out there who have been trapped into child support by a young girl looking for an easy road. I am past that game or the urge to breed to trap any young man. If a man finds me attractive no matter what his age I will take him on his merits not his wallet.

Maybe this is something that us girls from Down Under in Australia and New Zealand do and your northern hemisphere girls have forgotten or maybe they are just far to money orientated. That is why the Eastern European the South American and Asian girls are still so attractive. Like us girls from Down Under they still respect men.

[Johan007]

I am very sorry...but WHAT the heck is a MILF???

anyone?

sounds pretty scary to me.....LOL

(I am Dutch)

Johan

[Yogin]

MILF = Mother I'd Like to F***. Refers to a woman over 35, possibly a mom but not necessarily, who is still desirable.
In the US if they're still hot at that age, there's nearly always a lot of BS, gold-digging, bitterness, and psychological baggage to go along with it. On the other hand I've encountered many hot doable EE, SA, and Asian women of that age who are healthy and ripe for action.

[Dickhead]

I agree with the whole not showing the wealth thing and have been playing that card down here quite successfully. "Toro, why don't you buy a car?" "I can't afford a car. I am a school teacher and I only have work half the year." That is true as far as it goes. I wear jeans, running shoes, and a T-shirt ("croto") almost everywhere although I will upgrade to Dockers and Hush Puppies with a collared shirt if I invite a woman out somewhere. You don't want your apartment to be too nice, either. I have quite a reputation down here for being cheap ("tacaño") and the joke is "Toro speaks good Spanish but there are still some words he doesn't understand, like "regalo" (gift), "propina" (tip), and "shopping" (shopping!)." They fuck me anyway.

AWs blew me off even though I had a house, a nice truck, an advanced degree, and a white collar job. Here I have no house, no car, and they couldn't give less of a shit about my three degrees, and they are just glad I have A job. Most of them don't even understand what I do. Last night I had what I believe to be a MILF although she is only 33. She does have six kids. If you saw her in the boliche you would not say, "Man, I gotta have some of that." But she comes over once every couple of weeks, fucks me, I make a nice dinner, she does the dishes and cleans the kitchen, we chat for a while, she fucks me again, I give her about forty dollars, and she leaves. So for ten dollars an hour I am renting a wife who will do absolutely anything in bed at any time, is horny as hell, never flips me any shit, and we genuinely like each other. She can cook too if it ever becomes necessary, which it probably won't. She is very clean, uses the bidet, hangs up her towel, puts the cap back on the shampoo and toothpaste, etc. The last thing she does before she leaves is wash the beer glasses.

So why doesn't this Jennifer Cooke write about THAT?

[CBGBConnisur]

Germans have it much better than Americans, you Germans have a strong Euro that enables you to travel to Eastern Europe for cheap, and former Eastern Bloc is a gold mine when it comes to finding women. In the USA you lose interest in females because of the high maintenance attitudes and BS that you have to put up with. Despite having a woman head of state, I don't think German women are as assertive as American females, but still there is a big influx of EE women in Germany so you have an alternative.

In family court in the USA, the male is always guilty no matter what, they are always biased towards the female. Men are automatically criminals, even many laws are heavily skewed towards making men the criminal. The media is even worse, NBC did some special about male sexual predators and it failed to even mention that its just as common for women to sexually exploit younger men.

[Bango Cheito]

I think it's time for me to kinda repeat myself on here. A lot of AM are *****ing about AW when they need to take a look at the bigger picture, at the moribund culture they themselves are helping perpetuate. The fact is in America it is JUST as fucked up as a woman looking for a man as it is for a man looking for a woman. I'm sure you could find parallel rants on other boards by women saying just about the same thing all the angry guys on here are saying.

[Dickhead]

Well, a lot of us, like me and CBGB just to name two, have left the country so we ain't perfuckingpetuating things any more, che.

But I don't agree with you that it is "just as fucked for woman looking for a man" in the US. In fact, I find that statement completely ridiculous. Ludicrous, in fact. Asinine.

[Jelly Donut]

As for American women, when I am gone. She works her work, I mine. Blameless, all the way round.

The way Dickhead spells out his life, it just sounds dreamy. I'm sure there are some downsides, but it sounds like he's crafted out a great way of living. That's where I want to be. Straight Shooter's FAQ on retirement in Bogotá, Colombia was a watershed post along these lines:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=465517&postcount=456

[Johan007]

OOO boy...you realy (obviously) never stayed in germany to see how german women "interact" with men.....

jeeezzzzzz...these critters are in to "sex and the city"and Ally Macbeal crap big time....

cheaper????less bad attitude????

LOL

NFW

EEW cheap??? I kindda doubt that. You ever been in Moscow or any other large eastern european capital??? Let me tell you something: THEY ARE FAR FROM CHEAP!!

strong euro??? OOO man did you know we pay USD 7.30 for a gallon of gas???? Housing is very very expensive...for a normal small house (not a new one)you pay 130.000 euros..!!!! hows that? Many married collegues ENVY me...becoz I can go 1-2 times a year on a fuck trip...wereas they only can go to Turkey for 2 weks in an all in resort with their BUTT ugly wifes.....!!

if you go to a *****house( a club) you pay at least 100 Euros for an hour of FS.....and if you don't give her at least 2 drinks.....well you will see how a "dead fish"is like!!!! been there done that.....

thats why idecided to spend my cash in south america.....there i can fuck a 22 yo MILF.....that looks tasty and yummy.....;-) less money...and way better attitude....tell you that!

LOL


Johan

[Rock Dog]

I have noticed that increasing numbers of US women are dating or married to Asian men (Chinese, Indian). Based on the behavior of the men, I strongly suspect it is because AWs are able to find passive, compliant men among the immigrants from these countries.

I've noticed the same thing here in Canada. Lot's of local women going and getting hitched to some guy from wherever.

What's the common thread? Most of these guys appear to be the educated, hard-working type. Just the kind of docile, non-threatening type of man that these women would feel safe with. Th kind of guy who likes slaving away to pay for all the things the woman wants to have.

Not just that, but I'd bet good money a lot of these guys are doing this as a way of staying in the cuntry (oops, I meant country!) The really funny part is.... a lot of guys from these countries are true world-class mongers. Skillful, sly and daring..... they could screw a hundred girls on the side and their wife will never know. :D

Rock

ps. I'm with Johan007 on the topic of German women. You might do OK with them in certain isolated circumstances. But, if all GWs are that great, why does one see so many German guys in Thailand, Phillipines, DR, Cuba, Brazil etc. looking for local talent?

[Bango Cheito]

Johan, 130k euros for a house sounds CHEAP to me... here even in the South Bronx you'd be hard pressed to find anything for less than $400k US.

Dickhead, well unless one of us comes across some compelling evidence, we'll just have to agree to disagree. But IMNSHO it's a case of BOTH sexes setting having way too high standards compared to what they are bringing to the table. Quid pro quo, baby.

That's why there is such a high rate of guys getting burned by those dating agencies too. Unrealistically high expectations, combined with SEVERE culture shock on the part of the girl. Often these girls believe the stupidity that the middle class lifestyle in the USA is one lived in the lap of luxury, and they are in for a rude-ass shock when they get here. Not to mention, even in NYC and Miami, immigrants are usually further down the social ladder here than they were in their home countries, and that stings, as well as the discrimination they may well face here.

Now add to that the fact that the woman is often 10000x more sexually attractive to the opposite sex than her mate and often these relationships have an age gap of a generation or more, it's a long shot at best. These guys would do a fuck of a lot better off procuring the services of a pro and forgetting about the idea of a long term relationship completely!

[Dickhead]

It goes without saying that any guy who uses a "dating agency" is a douche bag and a loser who lacks the balls to do any kind of face to face. That has zero to do with what I am talking about.

Unfortunately many American men are so pussy whipped they would consider a mail order bride or some hag they met on Craig's List. All I can do about that is apologize on behalf of my native country. Many American men are also downloading porno and whipping the skippy and they find this an acceptable alternative to flesh and blood interactions. Many are married to women who are fat, ugly, and sexually disinterested.

So, they could grow some balls, and divorce their fat wives, and get in the game. That, of course, assumes they are not fat, bald, out of shape, impotent losers themselves. Many, of course, are. It is difficult to grow balls in middle age when your nuts have been squeezed dry by years and years of ball busting, ball draining women. I understand all of that.

But if you got some game and some cash and are smart enough to pour [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) out of a boot without somebody having to write the directions on the mother fucking heel, Latin America might be a destination. Why? Because the women love cock, like men, are ingrained to want to have a man, and will not bust your balls IF (very important!) you take control from the start. Latina women live at home until and unless they get married so they are really most comfortable taking directions and letting daddy, older brother, or YOU make all the decisions. Ask them if they want to eat at restaurant X or restaurant Y, listen to their opinion, and then say, "Well, let's go to Y." And so forth.

Then when (not "if") you get them in bed, don't be all like um um um could you maybe um ... (like you would do with an American woman).

'Cuz they don't like that!

[CBGBConnisur]

OOO boy...you realy (obviously) never stayed in germany to see how german women "interact" with men.....

jeeezzzzzz...these critters are in to "sex and the city"and Ally Macbeal crap big time....

cheaper????less bad attitude????

LOL

NFW

EEW cheap??? I kindda doubt that. You ever been in Moscow or any other large eastern european capital??? Let me tell you something: THEY ARE FAR FROM CHEAP!!

strong euro??? OOO man did you know we pay USD 7.30 for a gallon of gas???? Housing is very very expensive...for a normal small house (not a new one)you pay 130.000 euros..!!!! hows that? Many married collegues ENVY me...becoz I can go 1-2 times a year on a fuck trip...wereas they only can go to Turkey for 2 weks in an all in resort with their BUTT ugly wifes.....!!

if you go to a *****house( a club) you pay at least 100 Euros for an hour of FS.....and if you don't give her at least 2 drinks.....well you will see how a "dead fish"is like!!!! been there done that.....

thats why idecided to spend my cash in south america.....there i can fuck a 22 yo MILF.....that looks tasty and yummy.....;-) less money...and way better attitude....tell you that!

LOL


Johan

180,000US for a house in Germany??!!! Wow, in NYC, I can't get an apartment even in Brooklyn or Queens for that little. Oh I have been to Germany, I was in Dusseldorf, there are a lot of good FKK clubs in that part of the country, many of the women were Eastern European and the service was excellent, it was as little as 40US dollars for a good time. I also went to the Ukraine and Poland and good quality was cheap too.

I agree Moscow is super expensive but there are dozens of other places in the former Eastern bloc.
I also agree South America has excellent p4p.

I honestly have not seen too many white women with Asian guys, its a lot more common the other way around, maybe 20 to 1.

I was quite impressed with the quality of public transportation in Dusseldorf, it was easy to get to almost all the brothels there by bus or train, and that should say a lot because I from NYC, even NY's public transport is shit, and I do know gas costs $7 plus a gallon in Europe, but there is no parking there anyway, and more people use diesel over there and smaller cars.

I would say though that Latin America or the former Eastern bloc would be better for pussy than Germany, but still there are good options in Germany compared to other Western countries. Everything in the US is illegal, up north in Canada, there is Montreal but Germany is better for a Western country.

[Bango Cheito]

I just helped set my ex up earlier this year in Parkchester in a 2 bdrm condo. Cost was $170k. And that's CHEAP, cheap for the BRONX!!!! Damn, I think I need to move to Germany ;)

Montreal is better all around for women than anywhere I've been in the US, but outside of Quebec the rest of Canada is even WORSE. And Montreal just like NYC really has its best days for sex behind it. Back when NYC was great Montreal was great too.

Dickhead, I agree 100% with what you said in that last post. The only point where you and I differ is that you think AW have it made over here, and I think they are just as miserable as the men are.

[CBGBConnisur]

I must be extremely good looking or lucky, because I hooked up with a gorgeous Ukrainian living in Germany this summer, no way in hell I would meet a woman like that in NYC unless I was Donald Trump. Despite being gorgeous she was pretty much a feet on the ground type of person, lived like a normal person.

French Canadian women are pretty good but elsewhere in Canada, forget it.

[Dickhead]

Oh, I agree they are miserable even though they have it made. They are so fucking spoiled they can never be happy. Upper class and upper-middle class women are like that down here sometimes, too. You look at a Latin American woman from a wealthy family, you never saw anything so spoiled in your life. But they still are better fucks than AWs of similar social class. This is a key point. AWs are spoiled *****es who can't fuck their way out of a dry cleaning bag. Rich Latinas are spoiled *****es who will fuck you until you bleed out your ears.

[Chocha Monger]

MILF

Oh help I am MILF. Please let me defend my breed just a bit. All MILF are not self obsessed man haters.

I love men. I don't expect them to pay for my dinner. I don't expect them to do all the chasing and I certainly don't expect all the men I got to bed with to be under 30. I also don't have any female health problems.

Yes I am proud to say I am nearing the end of child bearing age. I don't think this is a problem. In fact I think its a plus. There are many men out there who have been trapped into child support by a young girl looking for an easy road. I am past that game or the urge to breed to trap any young man. If a man finds me attractive no matter what his age I will take him on his merits not his wallet.

Maybe this is something that us girls from Down Under in Australia and New Zealand do and your northern hemisphere girls have forgotten or maybe they are just far to money orientated. That is why the Eastern European the South American and Asian girls are still so attractive. Like us girls from Down Under they still respect men.
Sasha,

Perhaps you’re not like that but that seems to be the general attitude among women above 30 yrs of age in the US. If they haven’t caught Prince Charming by then they are really pissed off at the world and even the attractive ones are full of bitterness and bile. These women hold off on having children or marrying in hopes of getting some rich prince who never comes along or, who cums and flees for dear life.

Capital One has a credit card commercial on TV where a woman kisses a frog that turns into a weasel. She looks at the weasel in disgust and exclaims, “You’re no rich prince!” The weasel explains that rich prince rewards start after a certain number of kisses has been given. She continues giving kisses to only to have subsequent animal transformations add different terms and conditions necessary to achieve transformation into a rich prince. The woman finally gives up in a fit of anger and walks off as a satyr tells her, “But you’re only one kiss away!” This pretty much sums up the American MILF.

Yesterday, I went to the grocery store and was checked out by cashier who had one of the most beautiful faces I’ve ever seen. She had lovely intense blues eyes with long luxurious lashes and pert pink lips. Her long curly black tresses reached down to her shoulders. She made small talk with me as she rang up and bagged my items. This would have been highly unlikely to happen except for the fact that she was about 30 lbs overweight. If she was skinny, all other things being equal, she would have most likely limited her interaction to a plastic smile while simultaneously deploying the b*tch shield to deflect any possible interest from male customers. However, the extra 30 lbs made sure that she didn’t have to worry about that and she could therefore be nice. That is the sad reality here in the US. I kind of wondered what her story was because the weight appeared to be from a past pregnancy and if she dropped it she could easily be in high demand by guys willing to marry and support her. The absence of a diamond ring on the hand also shocked me because skinny women who can’t hold a candle to her looks in this area are easily snagging doctors and lawyers. Even slim but otherwise homely ones sport huge pieces of ice on the left ring finger.

[Bango Cheito]

Dickhead I think you nailed it with that last comment. I think the principal difference between North America and Latin America is that in Latin America people simply fuck more, albeit often behind closed doors. At least in the big cities, things are more sexually progressive in many ways than they are in North America in this day and age.

I don't however think it translates well for people looking for long-term relationships. As a guy looking for casual sex, you will have a much easier time in Latin America though, and it goes way beyond the exotic gringo thing or the perceived wealth too. Locals in Latin American cities not making much money at all do better than their US or Canadian counterparts too. Obviously p4p is MUCH better down there, due among other things to its being decriminalized.

But when it comes to long-term shit, money comes into play in Latin America as much or MORE than anywhere else in the world.

The two myths I think people buy about Latin American women is that a) they are non-materialistic anbd more apt to love you for who you are and b) that they are more submissive in nature. B is only true in the sack or on the dance floor.

To bring up a point I've seen played out a lot on various sections of this board... Latin women may very well be willing to let a guy fuck other girls, IF they are young and progressive and open-minded. The more traditionalist girls will NOT be down for something like that. And if you do hook up with a more open-minded girl, realize that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander!!!!

My recommendation for somebody going down to Latin America to live an expat lifestyle would be first off LEARN THE LANGUAGE FLUENTLY, and then secondly, either stick to paying for it and be happy OR

Find a nice 30+ well-maintained woman who is not overly involved in some sexually repressive religion and just lay your cards on the table with her. She will agree to anything that's remotely fair and the two of you will probably give each other the best sex you've ever had!!

[Dickhead]

I am under no illusions that Latinas are not materialistic, but the ones who are poor are used to doing without. However, I do believe they are more submissive by nature than AWs. Not in terms of being doormats, but they do expect the man to take charge and make the decisions. Decisions on everything from what restaurant to go to, to what hotel to stay in, where to go on vacation, all that stuff. I just bought one of my friends a pair of shoes for her birthday, and she could not decided between the green pair and the blue pair (of course, this was after hours of looking in 25 or 30 different stores). I said I thought the blue pair would go with more different outfits, and she chose it immediately. Then she told me she was nervous because she had never had a 200 peso ($60-65 US) pair of shoes on her feet before.

If you want a long-term relationship in Latin America (I don't), you will probably have to accept some other guy's kids in the process. Or even some other guys' kids. The single ones with no kids tend to be very independent and don't really need a gringo boyfriend.

[Cyberdas]

CBGBConnisur - you're the man!!
Dickhead - you're the man!!
Chocha Monger - you're the man!!
Bango Cheito - you're the man!!
Dickhead - you're the man!!

You guys are like my heroes in this forum LOL!!! Seriuosly, you guys couldn't nailed it on the head any better than you do. I totally agree with everything you guys individually (or as a group) have to say.

With regards to women in Latin America, it is true that they are nowhere near as sexually repressed nor do they use sex as a bargaining tool to the extend and degree AW / Americanized Women do here in the Sex / Pussy Prison. Even the real hot ones and /or better-off economically ones are more approachable than most AW (including the fat and fugly).

I agree with Dickhead in that they are not necessarily doormats but they do expect for you to take command of most things (i.e. important decisions and what-not) especially when it comes down to things / issues where your money comes into play. And unlike AW who are totally spoiled and expect everything for nothing (read: Princess syndrome) they actually appreciate and respect you for being a man. Manliness has not been eliminated from social life in LA as it has been here in the Sex / Pussy Prison. They will definitely respect you for taking charge from the start but will not if you act like the typical pussified and castrated AM.

When I arrive in LA, I unfortunately usually carry that pussified / chump AM attitude with me and it is not until I have warmed-up to how things should really be done, that I don't see the real benefits with the local women there - the way men down there are used to dealing with. That's when typically I stop getting burned and hosed and start doing things to my advantage and benefit. That's when things really get interesting for me he..he..he.. It's like you still very much have that MACHO culture and thus therefor women expect that sort of attitude / behavior from you (to a certain extend, ofcourse). You definitely need to be assertive and confident when dealing with women in LA as they not only expect this from you (as I already mentioned) but they will also respect you for it. And the benefits from such behavior are usually rewarded and not punished as they are in our beloved Sex / Pussy Prison.

[Johan007]

well i want to make some remarks on how i think about latin women. (and i do speak spanish...and yes i was in several la countries and yes i do know their culture all too well)
1) latin women are in general not submissive....infact they are quite the opposite from submissive. try to loock em up....and they run away!!!
2) lw are materialistic.....oooo yes...money talks...status is everything for them. many women even have 2 cell phones or shit like that.
3
lw need to learn how tu use a condom;-) for sure i will not marry any women with kids of another guy. (i think i will not marry any woman...at all..!!! why???) not even if she is a straight 10 and fucks my dick off every day. i will not pay for other mens kids nore entangle myself in their raising. most of the latins with kids are never been married before. (madres solteras)
in many countries even girls of 18 or 19 have kids..!!! here that surely is a rarity...becoz most women get their first kid at 26-27 or even older...
in that way latin men are very clever...and fuck em without a condom. and the women let them get away with it....very stupid imho. a gringo that marries any latina with allreday kids (with all respect) is imho a total morron and must be very desperate. because not many latin men will marry such a woman.

on that point i pay my respect to latin men......and if i ever emigarte to la i will surely adapt fast to their live style;-) fuck....have fun.....but not marry;-)

4) you guys forget that in europa (at least in germany) the wages are on average 30-40% less then in the us;-). yes you read that right....!!...so yes if you are alone....a house of 130.000 euros is expensive....becoz it's fucking small. spending 40-60 % from your nett income on morgage is quite normal here.
just ask any us gi that was in europe....the fist thing they are complaining about is the size of the houses and the exspenive gasoline!!!!!!!!!!!
let me tell you this....if you pay 7 bucks for a gallon you very soon sell your suv...for a small car;-)
on the other hand on german highways there are no speed limits:-) well at least in most regions. i always can see at their cars if they just have arrived in europe...becoz they have scracthes and bumps on the car everywere....lol.....big car....small parking space,,,,get it?? most americans always drive like snails on the autobahn....after they been here after 4-6 months they start to drive faster:-)

trust me...i live very close to a us airbase in germany and in my small town are living many us and canadian militairy staff so i know what i am talking about.

5) i wouldn't even want my worst enemy to ahve a average german wife. they are fat....ugly....very assertive...and materialistic. and sex???? ooo maybe once a week 20 min if you are lucky.
butt fuking???? forget it with most women here....they see that as an abnormality. only small minorities will like that. just like bj's. on the whole they are very conservative....not open mindend. sure maybe some young chicks in large cities are different......but i gues if you are in your late thirties or maybe early forties you don't stand a change with 19 yo german girls;-)

untill then i go 1-2 times a year on a fuck trip to la...:-) and maybe in 2-3 years i will settle down in paraguay or another country there in la.

my 2 euro cents.

johan

[DJ FourMoney]

I term women with children "damaged goods"

Some of us will still buy products that have broken packaging for example, its normal... You are hoping for a discount on the product that is why.

Women with Children as such are an item in the "People Store", usually in the discounted section :)

In most progressively sexual countries you have plenty of single mothers out there. In Europe it tends to be women in their late 20's and 30's. In Latin America it tends to be late teens to mid 20's.

C'mon the local Latinas DO THAT duh!

And being the Catholics they are, they don't use Condoms...

Yes it is not the smartest thing on earth to be responsible for another man's child; however, for example in the case with the Ukrainian woman that wants to be my wife (not up to my look standards, sorry) *yes the same one I fucked on my trip to Europe* Oxana is only 1 years old. In cases like this, she'll only know YOU as Daddy, especially if you move from where she is from...

Other women don't have their children's father involved with them either, so its not always GLOOM and DOOM, you have chance to raise a productive member of human race, nothing wrong with that.

I desire to be a first time parent and that decision is pushing me eastward...

It seems only Eastern European women are the only Caucasians left that -

Don't have a problem with my age (37)

Don't care where I work as long as I work (the subject of where I work NEVER COMES UP)

In Western Europe its not as bad as the US in on several levels, however it seems I can't pull anybody under 30 anymore, then again I really didn't TRY that much to my sampling isn't that great and requires another trip or two over there to see just what I can pull.

I wasn't repulsed by a German girl or the Brit chick both students and under 25 (had lunch with both at different times). Not like the foxy recent grad from NC@Chapel Hill that wanted more in-depth information about my career choice and when I wouldn't go into deeper detail, she was miffed and "was going to bed".

I still look at local personals only because it would make things ALOT easier after all. With the current admin it is difficult to bring in EE women and its not an overnight process, which is why I want to sink my teeth deeper into Western Europe and HOW did I miss Denmark??? lol No problem bringing home your Germany, Dutch, Danish, Norwegian or Swedish wifey. In fact I could more than likely pull from Slovakia and not have any vista issues...

I'm sure my co-workers think I am crazy for doing this, but what do they know -

D* married for 30 years, wife in menpause, wants OUT

M* separated from wife, 2 kids

S* married, 2 kids

E* unmarried, lives with mother of his 2 children (under 25)

I should mention all but D* are Latino, draw your own conclusions...

Off-Topic -

Where's BART9000, Boondocks Season 2 is on CN!

[Yogin]

Another great reason to avoid AW's with kids is that there have been recent US court decisions ordering a man to pay child support for kids who, even though they were not his biological or adopted kids, he lived with the woman for a couple years before splitting and the kids saw him as "dad", so he was obligated financially until 18!

[Capt Ajax]

This guy has got to be a big idiot!!!!

Instead of walking down the aisle of a church, a former New York couple will traipse down the aisle of a court room to settle a fight over a $48,800 diamond engagement ring.

Dean Kuehnen Jr. is suing his ex-fiance, Andria Castellano, to compel her to either return the ring or give him cash -- as well as cover his legal fees and costs, according to the complaint filed in New York State Court.

Castellano has threatened to sell or destroy the 3.23-carat ring, even though the couple agreed the ring would be returned to Kuehnen if their engagement was ever broken off, the complaint says.

Both were 21 years old when they became engaged in December last year, but by September this year the wedding was off.

"The sole and exclusive consideration, motivation and reason for buying the ring was the contemplated marriage," the complaint says.

Attempts to contact Castellano were unsuccessful.

According to the United States' Emily Post Institute that offers etiquette and manners advice, "if an engagement is broken, the bride should immediately return the ring to her former fiance."

[CBGBConnisur]

I met an upper class Brazilian girl who is studying in Australia, many bratty kids of Brazilian elites live in Australia, I have never met such a nose in air attitude in my life, at the same time I ran into a UA flight attendant from Oklahoma who was totally down to Earth, but an anamoly for an American woman.
Not everyone in Latin America is downtrodden and dirt poor, the rich in that part of the world can be ultra wealthy, especially Brazilians. There are many Asian women who also very pre-Madonna. Still they represent a small portion of their respective societies. With American females, the upper middle class suburbia brat is the most common that you run into.

[Bango Cheito]

It should be remembered Latin America is a big place, and the difference between urban and rural is VAST, as is the difference between countries.

The DR is very socially conservative, and condoms aren't the norm there. But Colombia on the other hand is very much behind the condom, at least in the bigger cities. They do have teen pregnancies in Bogota, especially in the poorer areas, but in general people wait till their 20s or even early 30s to have kids just like they do in NA. And that macho attitude would NOT go over very well in Bogota, at least not with my circle.

[Yogin]

Instead of walking down the aisle of a church, a former New York couple will traipse down the aisle of a court room to settle a fight over a $48,800 diamond engagement ring...According to the United States' Emily Post Institute that offers etiquette and manners advice, "if an engagement is broken, the bride should immediately return the ring to her former fiance."

Of course, he's an idiot for buying the huge ring in the first place. Not only basic decency dictates the ring must be returned, but there's ample legal precedent that says the same, no matter whose "fault" the breakup is. But try telling that to an angry AW on the rampage. And in this increasingly female-dominated country, I wouldn't be surprised if the b**** won in court.

[Jelly Donut]

Another great reason to avoid AW's with kids is that there have been recent US court decisions ordering a man to pay child support for kids who, even though they were not his biological or adopted kids, he lived with the woman for a couple years before splitting and the kids saw him as "dad", so he was obligated financially until 18!

I understand why the state wants someone to pay, kids are expensive and raising them takes a lot of time and resources. From a state perspective it's better to get the kids off the rolls of, say, SCHIP and other government programs where everyone pays for raising the kid. So, I'm sympathetic to the stickiness of American women with kids. I can see where it makes sense from a policy perspective and, in theory, it helps keep my tax bill down.

As a guy, you just need to be aware of how much you are exposing yourself to practical risks when you hang out with AWs. The US has reciprocal child support arrangements with these countries -Australia, Canada, Czech Republic, El Salvador, Finland, Hungary, Ireland, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic and Switzerland. So, you need to be aware that when you are dealing with women from these countries the state has a longer reach into your personal life.

[Bango Cheito]

Jesus H Christ... time to snip that shit!@

[Yogin]

What the state is doing by being so heavy-handed with boyfriends and live-ins, will in the end result drive away guys who could serve as good male role models, their not wanting to be stuck with a bill for a kid who's not theirs. Good male figures will lessen the likelihood of a kid leaving school, becoming a criminal, the kid having a baby at 16, or some other drain on society. So there's a "cost" to this new idiotic policy too. If the state really cares about the problem they should go after the real father (which they do and that's fine with me), or better yet improve sex education, and make the morning after pill and condoms free to all and distributed on every street corner. But no, the fanatical religious retards who have such a huge voice in public policy won't allow that. "Teach abstinance, that is the only way." Inevitable result is a lot of unwanted kids.

[George90]

What the state is doing by being so heavy-handed with boyfriends and live-ins, will in the end result drive away guys who could serve as good male role models, their not wanting to be stuck with a bill for a kid who's not theirs. Good male figures will lessen the likelihood of a kid leaving school, becoming a criminal, the kid having a baby at 16, or some other drain on society. So there's a "cost" to this new idiotic policy too. If the state really cares about the problem they should go after the real father (which they do and that's fine with me), or better yet improve sex education, and make the morning after pill and condoms free to all and distributed on every street corner. But no, the fanatical religious retards who have such a huge voice in public policy won't allow that. "Teach abstinance, that is the only way." Inevitable result is a lot of unwanted kids.

Bill Cosby and Dr. Alvin Poussaint of Harvard Medical School have a new book out that wants to bring Black fathers back into the Black family and out of jail, unemployment, drug scene, etc. A few critics of the book have correctly argued that blaming Black men or focusing on them as the main problem is counter-productive. While the US has welfare laws that reward single mothers and punish fathers who stay in the family, and while family court laws are lenient on mothers who fail to parent in the best interests of their children (Brittany Spears notwithstanding), men (Black men) will always be teetering on the edge, ready to fall out of the family at the slightest nudge.

The US made laws to protect women and mothers when the actually needed protection. Society has since evolved and women do not need as extensive protection but the laws haven't changed.

I don't think public policy will catch up to reality until reality knocks the US on its ass. The dollar is falling against all major currencies. The dollar price of oil is skyrocketing. Our idiotic Congress made an enemy out of a friend by catering to a special interest group, so now Turkey is going to invade northern Iraq to stop Kurdish insurgents. The real estate debacle is spreading to other industries like heavy machinery (Caterpillar), furniture building, and home appliance manufacturing causing serious job loss. Tens of thousands of homeowners are in foreclosure and tens of thousands more are in the pipeline. This is the reality and the family needs help to deal with it. Yet, we still bash men as if we are to blame for all of the US's ills.

[Warbucks]

Bill Cosby and Dr. Alvin Poussaint of Harvard Medical School have a new book out that wants to bring Black fathers back into the Black family and out of jail, unemployment, drug scene, etc. A few critics of the book have correctly argued that blaming Black men or focusing on them as the main problem is counter-productive. While the US has welfare laws that reward single mothers and punish fathers who stay in the family, and while family court laws are lenient on mothers who fail to parent in the best interests of their children (Brittany Spears notwithstanding), men (Black men) will always be teetering on the edge, ready to fall out of the family at the slightest nudge.

The US made laws to protect women and mothers when the actually needed protection. Society has since evolved and women do not need as extensive protection but the laws haven't changed.

I don't think public policy will catch up to reality until reality knocks the US on its ass. The dollar is falling against all major currencies. The dollar price of oil is skyrocketing. Our idiotic Congress made an enemy out of a friend by catering to a special interest group, so now Turkey is going to invade northern Iraq to stop Kurdish insurgents. The real estate debacle is spreading to other industries like heavy machinery (Caterpillar), furniture building, and home appliance manufacturing causing serious job loss. Tens of thousands of homeowners are in foreclosure and tens of thousands more are in the pipeline. This is the reality and the family needs help to deal with it. Yet, we still bash men as if we are to blame for all of the US's ills.

I been living overseas the last 3 years sometimes longing to return to the US but the more I read and hear stuff like this it makes the US more and more a undesirable future destination. Me being young and black just magnifies the situation.

[Dodger Bulldog]

The real estate debacle is spreading to other industries like heavy machinery (Caterpillar), furniture building, and home appliance manufacturing causing serious job loss.Well, Bpd81, don't believe everything that you read here. Why George90 singled out Caterpillar of all companies,
I have no idea, since on Friday they announced record profits for the third quarter:

"PEORIA, Ill. (AP) -- Caterpillar says its third-quarter earnings are up 21 percent. The construction equipment maker
is citing strength in its integrated service business, which combines financial services, parts, logistics and other operations.

"Caterpillar earned $927 million, or $1.40 per share, in the third quarter. That's compared with $769 million, or $1.14 per
share, a year ago. Revenue increased nine percent to more than $11.4 billion, from about $10.5 billion during last year's third quarter.

"But the company also cut its full-year outlook. It now expects to earn $5.20 to $5.60 per share. That's down from its previous
guidance of $5.30 to $5.80."

source: http://www.wjbc.com/wire2/news/07973_CatProfitsWEB_081152.htm

Okay, so they backed off their most optimistic projection for the year by a dime. Companies play with the
numbers all the time so they can look like heroes if they beat the projection later. Regardless, it will still be
Caterpillar's best year ever.

Company profits go up and down. Big deal. Proves nothing.

DB

[Bango Cheito]

Bpd where are you?

[Johan007]

I met an upper class Brazilian girl who is studying in Australia, many bratty kids of Brazilian elites live in Australia, I have never met such a nose in air attitude in my life, at the same time I ran into a UA flight attendant from Oklahoma who was totally down to Earth, but an anamoly for an American woman.
Not everyone in Latin America is downtrodden and dirt poor, the rich in that part of the world can be ultra wealthy, especially Brazilians. There are many Asian women who also very pre-Madonna. Still they represent a small portion of their respective societies. With American females, the upper middle class suburbia brat is the most common that you run into.

Well what can I say...if ye want to see a lot of snotty latinas...just fly to caracas...Bogota....Sao paulo...Rio...Santo Domingo or Mexico City...and you'll find them in the thousands!!! Sex and the city and Ally Mcbeal are their daily companions:-( Need I say more?

age??? I read somebody thinks he can't pull women under 30...when he is 37...thats true...alas...a fact:-(
In general in Western Europa the age difference with couples seldomly is bigger then 4-5 years.
As off lately women even tend to want YOUNGER men......and heee you know what....they get them too!!!!!!!!!!!! I am 41 yo and women of 35 (or younger) in general are NOT intrested in me. NOT even for one night stance...Even i do look good (even if I say so myself) and have a steady good paid job....and no debts or needing to pay child support!!

it's pathetic that female single (or divorced) moms can put their demands to guys without kids and having good jobs!!

I would NEVER even dream of settling down with a wife that allready has kids from another man.
NEVA EVA.

my 2 euro cents.

Johan

[Jelly Donut]

It's one way to pay for the wedding. I'm sure her dad is very proud.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/10/19/revisiting-the-lawyer-bride-who-sued-her-florist/

[Rock Dog]

It's one way to pay for the wedding. I'm sure her dad is very proud.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/10/19/revisiting-the-lawyer-bride-who-sued-her-florist/


So, she's a woman (AW) and a lawyer, and she likes to take people to court with vengeful lawsuits. You gotta wonder if her new husband is feeling kind of nervous right now. :D

Rock

[Rock Dog]

in the last few days, there has been a series of articles in a local paper regardng "cougars".

in these articles, they put a really positive spin on these so-called cougars. i read all kinds of positive comments like "these women know what they want", "older divorced women are in demand", "when you get to be in your 40's who cares what society thinks" etc. etc. there's also a line where a cougar is defined as an older woman who has "tossed aside the traditional rule book for romance and dates younger men".

then comes the other stuff. there are quotes from women who claim the are still hot and need a younger guy who can keep up with them.

so..... middle aged women want to have casual sex with guys 10 or 15 years younger? fine! i'm all for it as long as everybody is having fun and getting laid.

the thing that pisses me off is when i imagine the reaction if these articles were about older men going after younger women. one can only imagine the howls of protest from all the outraged feminists if there was a story about how good looking men in their 40's wanted women in their 20's because that made them feel good about themselves.

in fact, this same paper ran a series of stories about some guys in the dominican republic who were doing exactly that. they dragged out every negative stereotype you could imagine...... falling just short of labeling the men as ****s.

so i ask, why the double standard?

oh, and of course those cougar articles were written by a woman.

rock

[Ezinho]

In the last few days, there has been a series of articles in a local paper regardng "cougars".

I have to admit I am so out of touch, I had never heard of this term "Cougars", so I googled it, and the only thing that came back were sports articles that referred to teams called the cougars. So I googled "cougars" and "divorced" and found this gem of an article. I'm not going to repost it here, but you can click on the link below to read it. I must WARN everyone on here though, the article includes a picture of three "Cougars", and these women are nasty looking! I mean, they would make a Warthog dry heave! I was going to eat dinner in a few minutes, but after reading this article and looking at the photo, I'm downing a bottle of Pepto and calling it a night; thanks a lot, Rock Dog!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=462941&in_page_id=1879

[Bango Cheito]

I could totally dig an older well-preserved woman who keeps herself in shape and doesn't look like a train wreck, but the three troglodytes in the pic for that article don't qualify as well taken care of by even the biggest stretch of an overactime imagination :P

[Chocha Monger]

I have to admit I am so out of touch, I had never heard of this term "Cougars", so I googled it, and the only thing that came back were sports articles that referred to teams called the cougars. So I googled "cougars" and "divorced" and found this gem of an article. I'm not going to repost it here, but you can click on the link below to read it. I must WARN everyone on here though, the article includes a picture of three "Cougars", and these women are nasty looking! I mean, they would make a Warthog dry heave! I was going to eat dinner in a few minutes, but after reading this article and looking at the photo, I'm downing a bottle of Pepto and calling it a night; thanks a lot, Rock Dog!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=462941&in_page_id=1879
These "cougars" look more like weather beaten sows to me! I find it hard to believe that young men in their twenties, even thirties, will actually consider copulating with any of those frowzy hags unless a considerable sum of money and a burlap sack to be used as a hood were involved. There are a few things that these women seem to be ignoring like what will happen once the young guy decides he wants to have some children of his own. Then going to gym and botox can only go so far. Eventually, the wrinkles, flab, varicose veins, cellulite, hair loss, menopause, vaginal dryness, hot flashes, age spots, sagging mammaries, and crow's feet will catch up to them. One can only imagine how territorial these cougars get when some young tart gets close their prey.

The cougar's intention for their young prey has been revealed in the article. Basically, they're looking for a young caretaker. I'd advise them to invest their money in a good long term care policy because once the youngsters realize that they have to take their cougar to the toilet and wipe her ass they'll be out the door in a flash. One also complained that she was looking for a relationship while young men wanted sex. Hmm... can you see a problem emerging here?

I've known a few American cougars and seen the quality of the young men they are able to attract. Basically, they get the guys who don't stand a chance of getting laid by women their own age and can't afford to pay for it. The author would like us to believe that these women have their pick of young rich investment bankers. Yeah, right! I noticed that no mention was made of the numerous British cougars who prowl Jamaican beaches in search of the big bamboo. Those young guys are wasting their time dusting off those old rugs. Once someone told me that the old ones work just fine if you pour in a quart of oil before the ride but I still find that hard to believe.

[Poonhound69]

Off topic sorry, but construction is booming in the rest of the world, especially china-india-russia-middle-east-far-east.... and those people are reinvesting in africa and south america as well.


Well, Bpd81, don't believe everything that you read here. Why George90 singled out Caterpillar of all companies,
I have no idea, since on Friday they announced record profits for the third quarter:

"PEORIA, Ill. (AP) -- Caterpillar says its third-quarter earnings are up 21 percent. The construction equipment maker
is citing strength in its integrated service business, which combines financial services, parts, logistics and other operations.

"Caterpillar earned $927 million, or $1.40 per share, in the third quarter. That's compared with $769 million, or $1.14 per
share, a year ago. Revenue increased nine percent to more than $11.4 billion, from about $10.5 billion during last year's third quarter.

"But the company also cut its full-year outlook. It now expects to earn $5.20 to $5.60 per share. That's down from its previous
guidance of $5.30 to $5.80."

source: http://www.wjbc.com/wire2/news/07973_CatProfitsWEB_081152.htm

Okay, so they backed off their most optimistic projection for the year by a dime. Companies play with the
numbers all the time so they can look like heroes if they beat the projection later. Regardless, it will still be
Caterpillar's best year ever.

Company profits go up and down. Big deal. Proves nothing.

DB

[Hung Man 1808]

I find it hard to believe that young men in their twenties, even thirties, will actually consider copulating with any of those frowzy hags unless a considerable sum of money and a burlap sack to be used as a hood were involved.

I'd believe it - I've seen a mid 40s woman pashing on with a mid 20s decent looking guy, and he was lucky compared to most of the guys! About a 60:40 mix in the guys favour in the pub that night.

Falling in the middle of those age brackets, and being too old obviously for the mid 20s down girl, there is no hope here.

Though the asians keep telling me I'm at the right age (asians from asia that is) so there is only one place to go...

[Yogin]

Those three cougars are certainly hideous, but if they were to visit Jamaica they could find some impoverished handsome very young men who will do their bidding. The media glorifies such sex tourism.

While I freely confess to having done women this age, they were slender, fit, and still good-looking. These hags would have to pay me, put a bag over their heads, and even then I couldn't promise getting it up!

Or they find domestic desparate young schmucks who can't get anyone their own age and who consider themselves lucky simply to get laid, even if she's old fat & ugly! Geez, standards for what constitutes a doable female are so low here. Gotta go to Asia again!

[Kiwi 69]

I could totally dig an older well-preserved woman who keeps herself in shape and doesn't look like a train wreck, but the three troglodytes in the pic for that article don't qualify as well taken care of by even the biggest stretch of an overactime imagination :P" She is so ugly, the tide wouldn´t take her out ! " really applies to these bison. Obviously physical attractiveness does not enter into many men´s requirement for a sex partner.Have you ever cruised the Photo Gallery in the USA Sex Guide ? Fucking scary monsters!

[DJ FourMoney]

" She is so ugly, the tide wouldn´t take her out ! " really applies to these bison. Obviously physical attractiveness does not enter into many men´s requirement for a sex partner.Have you ever cruised the Photo Gallery in the USA Sex Guide ? Fucking scary monsters!

There is no accounting for taste no matter where you are in the world. Even what many posters in the "Slavic" forums would have you believe they banged the hottest model chicks you have ever seen.

When the photos are posted, c'mon they are 6-7's at best, only things going for them otherwise is they aren't American and they are skinny.

Traveling several thousands of miles to experience women 10-15 years younger than you is only available outside the US as even desperate American women are willing wait for this jailed father of their children instead of dating you. On another forum some woman told me that 30-37 is my age range and that I should deal with it.

While she didn't attack my desire to meet women outside of the US, that normal American woman defense mechanizim (sp?) to call me a looser almost came out, but came up short.

The fact remains -

You can date 10-12 years your Jr very EASY outside North America. If you push you can even get it up to 15 years (for me that's 22) and many of these women are nfind with that, because your beyond (sometimes) a maturity level that many men their own country or even within 5-10 years of their own age do not share.

Though it is changing, Slavic/Latina women want to marry and bear children EARLY.

Older men (especially western men) can handle that more readily than younger men (Locally) and that's attractive.

Being cute and having style are a bonus...

Its an interesting dynamic...

[Capt Ajax]

I could totally dig an older well-preserved woman who keeps herself in shape and doesn't look like a train wreck, but the three troglodytes in the pic for that article don't qualify as well taken care of by even the biggest stretch of an overactime imagination :P

Well, since MOST men are basically pansies, I'm pretty sure these ladies won't have a problem finding men (as in most men on this board) looking to fuck 'em....sad but true!!!!!

[George90]

Well, Bpd81, don't believe everything that you read here. Why George90 singled out Caterpillar of all companies,
I have no idea, since on Friday they announced record profits for the third quarter:

DB

I singled out Caterpillar because I had just read a business article that quoted Caterpillar as having a negative outlook because it felt the housing slowdown was spreading to other industries, including its own.

That it reported records profits is great!

[Capt Ajax]

For those guys thinking of marriage here are some Testimonials of Despair.

"I should have known better. Single life, I thought at the time, was wearing thin on my sanity. If I'd only known what was in store for me once I got married I would have hung myself a long time ago..."

G.R. - Toledo, Ohio

"I was in love. I thought she'd make the perfect wife. We'd get married, buy a house, have children and live the American dream. The reality was we got hitched, foreclosed on the house within a year, she got pregnant but not by me and I lived the Communist nightmare."

D.T. - Gainesville, Florida

I'd like to think that I did the best I could and that I was the best husband I could be. But somehow the b*tch just never accepted me for who I was. I felt strangled. I couldn't stop looking at other women and in the end it killed our relationship. It was all for the better though. I'm dating again and being single again is like the feeling you get when you are forcibly held underwater till you're near death then are suddenly allowed to come up for air. Thank you Jesus!"

N.S. - Tyler, Texas

"Everyone kept asking me when I was gonna get married. I was nervous but loved my boyfriend so we tied the knot. He beat me like a rag doll. We divorced in 6 months."

K. L. - Providence, Rhode Island

"It wasn't enough for us to live together, or so she insisted so we got married 3 years ago. Things went into the crapper almost immediately and I found myself staying out later and later every night. Eventually I turned to the bottle and I've been divorced and in A.A. ever since."

J. F. - Scottsdale, Arizona

"The next sum-***** who tells me that marriage is what you make of it is going to hear me roar. I made the best of what is an inherantly corrupt institution - marriage."

K. P. - Daytona, Florida

"I really thought marriage was the answer to all my hopes and dreams. I married a beautiful woman. We got ourselves settled and I landed a great job. Things were great at first, then good, then just ok. Finally, within about 5 years I didn't recognize myself in the mirror anymore. I went into a deep self-loathing and my wife never forgave me for the numerous affairs I had. We divorced recently and I can't help but feel that the damage is permanent."

N.W - Grand Rapids, Michigan

"All the pain I've gone through over the past 9 years of marriage can be traced back to two words I said - 'I DO'..."

A.G - Duluth, Minnesota

[DJ FourMoney]

For those guys thinking of marriage here are some Testimonials of Despair.

"I should have known better. Single life, I thought at the time, was wearing thin on my sanity. If I'd only known what was in store for me once I got married I would have hung myself a long time ago..."

G.R. - Toledo, Ohio

"I was in love. I thought she'd make the perfect wife. We'd get married, buy a house, have children and live the American dream. The reality was we got hitched, foreclosed on the house within a year, she got pregnant but not by me and I lived the Communist nightmare."

D.T. - Gainesville, Florida

I'd like to think that I did the best I could and that I was the best husband I could be. But somehow the b*tch just never accepted me for who I was. I felt strangled. I couldn't stop looking at other women and in the end it killed our relationship. It was all for the better though. I'm dating again and being single again is like the feeling you get when you are forcibly held underwater till you're near death then are suddenly allowed to come up for air. Thank you Jesus!"

N.S. - Tyler, Texas

"Everyone kept asking me when I was gonna get married. I was nervous but loved my boyfriend so we tied the knot. He beat me like a rag doll. We divorced in 6 months."

K. L. - Providence, Rhode Island

"It wasn't enough for us to live together, or so she insisted so we got married 3 years ago. Things went into the crapper almost immediately and I found myself staying out later and later every night. Eventually I turned to the bottle and I've been divorced and in A.A. ever since."

J. F. - Scottsdale, Arizona

"The next sum-***** who tells me that marriage is what you make of it is going to hear me roar. I made the best of what is an inherantly corrupt institution - marriage."

K. P. - Daytona, Florida

"I really thought marriage was the answer to all my hopes and dreams. I married a beautiful woman. We got ourselves settled and I landed a great job. Things were great at first, then good, then just ok. Finally, within about 5 years I didn't recognize myself in the mirror anymore. I went into a deep self-loathing and my wife never forgave me for the numerous affairs I had. We divorced recently and I can't help but feel that the damage is permanent."

N.W - Grand Rapids, Michigan

"All the pain I've gone through over the past 9 years of marriage can be traced back to two words I said - 'I DO'..."

A.G - Duluth, Minnesota


Okay -

Firstly marriage is not an answer to any dream you have. Its companionship, friendship and sexual relationship; nothing more, nothing less and if you expect more you'll be setting yourself up for disappointment.

The next to last one is a laugher. She never forgave him for his numerous affairs?

What did he get married for????

That is a mistake men generally make, they use the woman they are married too a place holder. A ready made sexually partner for whenever you feel you want to fuck.

Not shocked if she took him to the cleaners he deserved it.

Look, I am not defending American women's behavior its generally BAD, however you do not need to give them ammo or add fuel to the argument.

Dating would work better if more men cleaned up their act. If you want to bang pro's and date various women don't get married, pretty simple. I'll never forget my boy Rob was jones'in to get married. He found a beautiful girl that felt the same way, bam in less than 9 months they were married, inside of one year she was pregnant.

They have been married for 10 years, have 3 children and he loves her dealy and she feels the same about him.

He is a member of the Local Teamsters for Grips and Lighting in Hollywood, worked on the Golden Girls and works on ER now.

It doesn't take much its just about being HONEST with yourself, not enough are...

[DJ FourMoney]

Well, since MOST men are basically pansies, I'm pretty sure these ladies won't have a problem finding men (as in most men on this board) looking to fuck 'em....sad but true!!!!!

Actually I am not even remotely interested in old hags, the stunnas over 40 demand the best looking men, up to 10 years younger than them so the story is the same no matter the age group your talking about.

There many women that look dayum good to be 40 years old, but they want Harrison Ford types themselves or if your like Demi somebody Auston's age.

So your still SOL if your average to slightly better than average looking. Also more often that not women making the kind of money to keep them ahead of the aging process earn the kind of income that allows them to hang out in social circles most of us are NOT apart of.

[Chocha Monger]

The wife came home early and found her husband in their bedroom making
love to a very attractive young woman. And was somewhat upset. 'You are a
disrespectful pig!' she cried. 'How dare you do this to me -- a faithful
wife, the mother of your children! I'm leaving you. I want a divorce
straight away !' And the husband replied 'Hang on just a minute love, so
at least I can tell you what happened.' 'Fine, go ahead,' she sobbed, ' but
they'll be the last words you'll say to me!' ; And the husband began --
'Well, I was getting into the car to drive home and this young lady here
asked me for a lift. She looked so down and out and defenseless that I
took pity on her and let her into the car. I noticed that she was very
thin, not well dressed and very dirty. She told me that she hadn't eaten
for three days ! So, in my compassion, I brought her home and warmed up
the enchiladas I made for you last night, the ones you wouldn't eat
because you're afraid you'll put on weight. The poor thing devoured them
in moments. Since she needed a good clean up I suggested a shower, and
while she was doing that I noticed her clothes were dirty and full of
holes so I threw them away. Then, as she needed clothes, I gave her the
designer jeans that you have had for a few years, but don't use because
you say they are too tight. I also gave her the underwear that was your
anniversary present,which you don't use because I don't have good taste. I
found the sexy blouse my sister gave you for Christmas that you don't use
just to annoy her, and I also donated those boots you bought at the
expensive boutique and don't use because someone at work has a pair of the
same.'
The husband took a quick breath and continued - 'She was so grateful for
my understanding and help and as I walked her to the door she turned to me
with tears in her eyes and said, 'Please do you have anything else that
your wife doesn't use?'

[Athlete]

Okay. Firstly marriage is not an answer to any dream you have. Its companionship, friendship and sexual relationship; nothing more, nothing less and if you expect more you'll be setting yourself up for disappointment.

The next to last one is a laugher. She never forgave him for his numerous affairs?

What did he get married for?

That is a mistake men generally make, they use the woman they are married too a place holder. A ready made sexually partner for whenever you feel you want to fuck.

Not shocked if she took him to the cleaners he deserved it.

Look, I am not defending American women's behavior its generally BAD, however you do not need to give them ammo or add fuel to the argument.

Dating would work better if more men cleaned up their act. If you want to bang pro's and date various women don't get married, pretty simple. I'll never forget my boy Rob was jones'in to get married. He found a beautiful girl that felt the same way, bam in less than 9 months they were married, inside of one year she was pregnant.

They have been married for 10 years, have 3 children and he loves her dealy and she feels the same about him.

He is a member of the Local Teamsters for Grips and Lighting in Hollywood, worked on the Golden Girls and works on ER now. It doesn't take much its just about being HONEST with yourself, not enough are. You must be married to be giving marriage advice? If you are then take your own advice an ask why your on this board?

Also! No man deserves to be taken to the cleaners!

Look up the word mangina! You reek of it.

[DJ FourMoney]

You must be married to be giving marriage advice? If you are then take your own advice an ask why your on this board?

Also! No man deserves to be taken to the cleaners!

Look up the word mangina! You reek of it.

So you condone cheating on your wife???

Many here do that and while I don't condone it I am not a playa hater.

If your good enough that she never finds out, then you a master of that trade.

Not ever man deserves to be taken to the cleaners. If you are caught cheating red handed and she has done nothing to make you stray, then what would be fair punishment especially if you have young children?

I am not married, nor would I cheat on my wife which might explain why I have never been married as I take it very seriously.

I guess in your eyes vows are a joke and not to be taken seriously.

I never said things change and that women don't change, of course they do. Then its time to eject then, if you have protected yourself you won't be taken to the cleaners.

[Warbucks]

So you condone cheating on your wife???

Many here do that and while I don't condone it I am not a playa hater.

If your good enough that she never finds out, then you a master of that trade.

Not ever man deserves to be taken to the cleaners. If you are caught cheating red handed and she has done nothing to make you stray, then what would be fair punishment especially if you have young children?

I am not married, nor would I cheat on my wife which might explain why I have never been married as I take it very seriously.

I guess in your eyes vows are a joke and not to be taken seriously.

I never said things change and that women don't change, of course they do. Then its time to eject then, if you have protected yourself you won't be taken to the cleaners.
I am in my late 20s and was married for 4 years to an American Hispanic. She made it real easy for me to cheat with her constant *****ing, rationing of the pussy and overall just being a cold hearted ****. Now that I have gave her her compliment. I will say this did I see this behavior before we got married? Yep. Did I ignore this behavior because of lust/ love or something like it? Yep. Now divorced I managed to meet a Filipina who has spent all her life in Japan. Do I still fuck around? You bet. She does make it real hard mentally for me to do it though.

[Jelly Donut]

I am in my late 20s and was married for 4 years to an American Hispanic. She made it real easy for me to cheat with her constant *****ing, rationing of the pussy and overall just being a cold hearted ****. Now that I have gave her her compliment. I will say this did I see this behavior before we got married? Yep. Did I ignore this behavior because of lust/ love or something like it? Yep. Now divorced I managed to meet a Filipina who has spent all her life in Japan. Do I still fuck around? You bet. She does make it real hard mentally for me to do it though.

Sure. We all have different experiences. Some of us grew up with some heavy messages about marriage. A lot of my friends have a very "civil" understanding of marriage, but for me and a lot of guys it was more of a promise before God.

This may sound sort of strange and it is a little strange for me to say it, because I'm not much for the church. Another way of putting it - in the words of Tony Montana "All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one".

I think guys who take the world a less seriously may have a better time overall. Basically, in my perspective, if you are married to someone and screwing around, you are constantly living in a conflicted situation - you promise one thing and you live at odds with your promise. You want two desirable things that are at odds with each other.

It would drive me crazy. You handle those situations better than I would. Generally, people who can deal with conflicted situations like that tend to be effective, with little or no feelings of guilt, which has it's up and down sides.

For me, it's easier to give up all the promises of domestic bliss - which I think American/DisneyWorld/television culture tends celebrate way out of proportion, say, compared to what you would learn if you read.

For instance, in every recent Disney movie there is a love interest and a happy ending is when the couple hooks up at the end of the film. Happy ever after. But that's not the plot of basically any significant book in "western" culture - those books are all about guys dealing with shit on their own; there are a few exceptions - most written by chicks.

[DJ FourMoney]

Sure. We all have different experiences. Some of us grew up with some heavy messages about marriage. A lot of my friends have a very "civil" understanding of marriage, but for me and a lot of guys it was more of a promise before God.

This may sound sort of strange and it is a little strange for me to say it, because I'm not much for the church. Another way of putting it - in the words of Tony Montana "All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one".

I think guys who take the world a less seriously may have a better time overall. Basically, in my perspective, if you are married to someone and screwing around, you are constantly living in a conflicted situation - you promise one thing and you live at odds with your promise. You want two desirable things that are at odds with each other.

It would drive me crazy. You handle those situations better than I would. Generally, people who can deal with conflicted situations like that tend to be effective, with little or no feelings of guilt, which has it's up and down sides.

For me, it's easier to give up all the promises of domestic bliss - which I think American/DisneyWorld/television culture tends celebrate way out of proportion, say, compared to what you would learn if you read.

For instance, in every recent Disney movie there is a love interest and a happy ending is when the couple hooks up at the end of the film. Happy ever after. But that's not the plot of basically any significant book in "western" culture - those books are all about guys dealing with shit on their own; there are a few exceptions - most written by chicks.

Which is why I can't watch Disney movies anymore, not every things ends happy.

Just like in Ronin they had to change the original ending because I am sure they didn't like the girl getting wisked away by a faction of the IRA while she sneaked a peak at Jack one final time.

Or

They changed the ending of The Saint because the killed off Kilmer's love interest about 3/4 of the way through it. So they re-edited it and re-wrote the ending.

As we all know Life is not that rosy, just like when many women find out that being married to a rich guy is often not all its cracked up to be. Yes you have money and yes you have access, but if he sucks in bed or is never home, then what do you have?

[Jelly Donut]

I was struck when I read "The Three Musketeers" and "The Count of Monte Cristo". The girl dies. For anyone who grew up with the Americanized versions of these tales it's a bit of a shock.

For the most part, chicks are lucky if they even make it into the plot of many "great" books. Don Quijote. Moby Dick. Huckleberry Finn "Well I reckon I got to light out for the Territory ahead of the rest because Aunt Sally she's going to adopt me and civilise me and I can't stand it."

All the chicks are worthless or worse in The Odyssey. You bust your ass trying to get home, and your wife is entertaining every guy on the block when you make it through the door. The only girl worth a tinkers damn in Crime and Punishment is a pro.

If you've only been taking these tales in filtered through American pop media, you're not getting the whole story.




Which is why I can't watch Disney movies anymore, not every things ends happy.

Just like in Ronin they had to change the original ending because I am sure they didn't like the girl getting wisked away by a faction of the IRA while she sneaked a peak at Jack one final time.

Or

They changed the ending of The Saint because the killed off Kilmer's love interest about 3/4 of the way through it. So they re-edited it and re-wrote the ending.

As we all know Life is not that rosy, just like when many women find out that being married to a rich guy is often not all its cracked up to be. Yes you have money and yes you have access, but if he sucks in bed or is never home, then what do you have?

[Chocha Monger]

Damn DJ, you’re busting men’s balls… I mean you’re really tearing them apart! You’re doing the same thing as AW. You assume that if all men would be good little boys and not fuck around then life would be sweet and marriage great. Well, that is a fallacious crock of shit! You see, when I was a boy, I was raised to believe such nonsense then reality struck. I soon discovered that once women start dating and they figure out just how badly men want their pussy and the things they are willing to do to get it they inevitably try to take advantage of it. To be fair, this is probably more a statement about human nature and not solely one about women. Anyway, once the girls discovered their little patch of gold they started giving it to the highest bidder or rationed it out among the high bidders for gifts, meals or cash. Of course, they told each one that he was the only one and that they loved him madly.

Do you really think that women fuck one guy at a time hoping that he will marry them and be faithful? Well, I have news for you. American women usually fuck a few guys at any one time before making a decision regarding who they’re going to pressure into marriage. If things don’t work out they always have a replacement on the back burner to roll into guy #1’s slot. I know chicks that do this without feeling that it is wrong in any way. They simply see this as having fun and maximizing their chances of landing “Mr. Right”.

Your boy may have gotten lucky…really lucky. However, that is not the average man’s experience. If it were there wouldn’t be a need for a forum like this, would there? Sadly, men expect their wives to fuck them whenever they feel like it because with the marriage vows comes the agreement that they will only fuck their wives forsaking all other pussy. Therefore when a man gets the urge to fuck he looks for wifey and not some other woman because they have an agreement. When she refuses to fuck him because she simply doesn’t feel like it she breaches this agreement. If it happens enough times the husband might start feeling that he doesn’t have to abide by the terms of the agreement either. At this point he may take the liberty of fucking other women as often as needed to soothe his urges.

As for getting taken to the cleaners, this is the era of no fault divorce. Therefore if getting taken to the cleaners is a punishment then it is a punishment for all men moronic enough to get married and not limited to those at fault. Of course, people are free to do as they please in this country within the confines of the law. If you wish to get married then do so but do not blame your difficulties in this area on your brothers who wisely choose to fuck and flee. Some of us would rather enjoy ourselves than slave away at work in vain efforts to satisfy the whims of a harsh mistress.

[CBGBConnisur]

A lot of women go for money anyway. Its common sense that life does not turn out the way we would like it. People still watch movies anyway, and the studios keep cutting the film to have the happy ending.

[Warbucks]

Damn DJ, you’re busting men’s balls… I mean you’re really tearing them apart! You’re doing the same thing as AW. You assume that if all men would be good little boys and not fuck around then life would be sweet and marriage great. Well, that is a fallacious crock of shit! You see, when I was a boy, I was raised to believe such nonsense then reality struck. I soon discovered that once women start dating and they figure out just how badly men want their pussy and the things they are willing to do to get it they inevitably try to take advantage of it. To be fair, this is probably more a statement about human nature and not solely one about women. Anyway, once the girls discovered their little patch of gold they started giving it to the highest bidder or rationed it out among the high bidders for gifts, meals or cash. Of course, they told each one that he was the only one and that they loved him madly.

Do you really think that women fuck one guy at a time hoping that he will marry them and be faithful? Well, I have news for you. American women usually fuck a few guys at any one time before making a decision regarding who they’re going to pressure into marriage. If things don’t work out they always have a replacement on the back burner to roll into guy #1’s slot. I know chicks that do this without feeling that it is wrong in any way. They simply see this as having fun and maximizing their chances of landing “Mr. Right”.

Your boy may have gotten lucky…really lucky. However, that is not the average man’s experience. If it were there wouldn’t be a need for a forum like this, would there? Sadly, men expect their wives to fuck them whenever they feel like it because with the marriage vows comes the agreement that they will only fuck their wives forsaking all other pussy. Therefore when a man gets the urge to fuck he looks for wifey and not some other woman because they have an agreement. When she refuses to fuck him because she simply doesn’t feel like it she breaches this agreement. If it happens enough times the husband might start feeling that he doesn’t have to abide by the terms of the agreement either. At this point he may take the liberty of fucking other women as often as needed to soothe his urges.

As for getting taken to the cleaners, this is the era of no fault divorce. Therefore if getting taken to the cleaners is a punishment then it is a punishment for all men moronic enough to get married and not limited to those at fault. Of course, people are free to do as they please in this country within the confines of the law. If you wish to get married then do so but do not blame your difficulties in this area on your brothers who wisely choose to fuck and flee. Some of us would rather enjoy ourselves than slave away at work in vain efforts to satisfy the whims of a harsh mistress.

I am a atheist but this deserves an AMEN!

[CBGBConnisur]

Being able to travel is the best thing in the entire world, that maximizes your chances of meeting women. In the USA this is difficult for all but the independently wealthy. Most working people never get more than 2 weeks off a year. Europeans and Australians get more time off, so that translates into more chances to go somewhere else and meet women. I have met business owners in Europe who have closed their shops for more than a month to go on a holiday.

[Jelly Donut]

Well, I don't know for sure, but I grew up with a couple of sisters and have lived with a few AWs as roomates, friends and confidants. Based on that experience I don't think a lot of AWs are juggling multiple sex partners - I think these numbers are closer to the truth (although, sure, some people would lie, even if thier responses were anonymous):

"93.9% of the 1481 respondents answered the question about number of sex partners in the past 12 months (Table 1). Overall, 21.5% said they had no sex partner in the past 12 months, 59.6% said one, 10.6% said two to four, 2.2% said five or more, and 6.1% did not answer the question. Six percent of the 638 men and 1.2% of the 843 women indicated that at least one of their sex partners in the past 12 months was a "casual date or pick-up." Four (0.6%) men and no women reported that at least one of their partners was a "person you paid or (who) paid you for sex."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001277.htm

I do know a couple of girls who do that sort of thing. (dating disasters 102: You are looking to jump the ladder and get into her pants, she starts dumping the details of her various lovers on you).

Let's say, generously, ten percent. It's still a lot of women and if you hang out where they hang out, it's going to twist your take on things. The idea that women and men think about sex the same way, well, they just don't.

[Capt Ajax]

Damn DJ, you’re busting men’s balls… I mean you’re really tearing them apart! You’re doing the same thing as AW. You assume that if all men would be good little boys and not fuck around then life would be sweet and marriage great. Well, that is a fallacious crock of shit! You see, when I was a boy, I was raised to believe such nonsense then reality struck. I soon discovered that once women start dating and they figure out just how badly men want their pussy and the things they are willing to do to get it they inevitably try to take advantage of it. To be fair, this is probably more a statement about human nature and not solely one about women. Anyway, once the girls discovered their little patch of gold they started giving it to the highest bidder or rationed it out among the high bidders for gifts, meals or cash. Of course, they told each one that he was the only one and that they loved him madly.

Do you really think that women fuck one guy at a time hoping that he will marry them and be faithful? Well, I have news for you. American women usually fuck a few guys at any one time before making a decision regarding who they’re going to pressure into marriage. If things don’t work out they always have a replacement on the back burner to roll into guy #1’s slot. I know chicks that do this without feeling that it is wrong in any way. They simply see this as having fun and maximizing their chances of landing “Mr. Right”.

Your boy may have gotten lucky…really lucky. However, that is not the average man’s experience. If it were there wouldn’t be a need for a forum like this, would there? Sadly, men expect their wives to fuck them whenever they feel like it because with the marriage vows comes the agreement that they will only fuck their wives forsaking all other pussy. Therefore when a man gets the urge to fuck he looks for wifey and not some other woman because they have an agreement. When she refuses to fuck him because she simply doesn’t feel like it she breaches this agreement. If it happens enough times the husband might start feeling that he doesn’t have to abide by the terms of the agreement either. At this point he may take the liberty of fucking other women as often as needed to soothe his urges.

As for getting taken to the cleaners, this is the era of no fault divorce. Therefore if getting taken to the cleaners is a punishment then it is a punishment for all men moronic enough to get married and not limited to those at fault. Of course, people are free to do as they please in this country within the confines of the law. If you wish to get married then do so but do not blame your difficulties in this area on your brothers who wisely choose to fuck and flee. Some of us would rather enjoy ourselves than slave away at work in vain efforts to satisfy the whims of a harsh mistress.

Well put Chocha Monger.......your post deserves a hall of fame rating.

[DJ FourMoney]

Damn DJ, you’re busting men’s balls… I mean you’re really tearing them apart! You’re doing the same thing as AW. You assume that if all men would be good little boys and not fuck around then life would be sweet and marriage great. Well, that is a fallacious crock of shit! You see, when I was a boy, I was raised to believe such nonsense then reality struck. I soon discovered that once women start dating and they figure out just how badly men want their pussy and the things they are willing to do to get it they inevitably try to take advantage of it. To be fair, this is probably more a statement about human nature and not solely one about women. Anyway, once the girls discovered their little patch of gold they started giving it to the highest bidder or rationed it out among the high bidders for gifts, meals or cash. Of course, they told each one that he was the only one and that they loved him madly.

Do you really think that women fuck one guy at a time hoping that he will marry them and be faithful? Well, I have news for you. American women usually fuck a few guys at any one time before making a decision regarding who they’re going to pressure into marriage. If things don’t work out they always have a replacement on the back burner to roll into guy #1’s slot. I know chicks that do this without feeling that it is wrong in any way. They simply see this as having fun and maximizing their chances of landing “Mr. Right”.

Your boy may have gotten lucky…really lucky. However, that is not the average man’s experience. If it were there wouldn’t be a need for a forum like this, would there? Sadly, men expect their wives to fuck them whenever they feel like it because with the marriage vows comes the agreement that they will only fuck their wives forsaking all other pussy. Therefore when a man gets the urge to fuck he looks for wifey and not some other woman because they have an agreement. When she refuses to fuck him because she simply doesn’t feel like it she breaches this agreement. If it happens enough times the husband might start feeling that he doesn’t have to abide by the terms of the agreement either. At this point he may take the liberty of fucking other women as often as needed to soothe his urges.

As for getting taken to the cleaners, this is the era of no fault divorce. Therefore if getting taken to the cleaners is a punishment then it is a punishment for all men moronic enough to get married and not limited to those at fault. Of course, people are free to do as they please in this country within the confines of the law. If you wish to get married then do so but do not blame your difficulties in this area on your brothers who wisely choose to fuck and flee. Some of us would rather enjoy ourselves than slave away at work in vain efforts to satisfy the whims of a harsh mistress.

Oh I agree, I am not trying to bust any balls. I am just saying if you want to do that fine, if she does it to you fine. But usually its double standard...

I don't like how AW behave I am done with them, I was just making a comment.

[Bango Cheito]

Wow, if this is true, no wonder it sucks here. Whatever happened to free love, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s etc? :P


Well, I don't know for sure, but I grew up with a couple of sisters and have lived with a few AWs as roomates, friends and confidants. Based on that experience I don't think a lot of AWs are juggling multiple sex partners - I think these numbers are closer to the truth (although, sure, some people would lie, even if thier responses were anonymous):

"93.9% of the 1481 respondents answered the question about number of sex partners in the past 12 months (Table 1). Overall, 21.5% said they had no sex partner in the past 12 months, 59.6% said one, 10.6% said two to four, 2.2% said five or more, and 6.1% did not answer the question. Six percent of the 638 men and 1.2% of the 843 women indicated that at least one of their sex partners in the past 12 months was a "casual date or pick-up." Four (0.6%) men and no women reported that at least one of their partners was a "person you paid or (who) paid you for sex."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001277.htm

I do know a couple of girls who do that sort of thing. (dating disasters 102: You are looking to jump the ladder and get into her pants, she starts dumping the details of her various lovers on you).

Let's say, generously, ten percent. It's still a lot of women and if you hang out where they hang out, it's going to twist your take on things. The idea that women and men think about sex the same way, well, they just don't.

[Jelly Donut]

Wow, if this is true, no wonder it sucks here. Whatever happened to free love, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s etc? :P

Went the way of the Times Square hooker. I think everything topped out when Carter legalized, or reduced the penalties, on carrying small amounts of pot, since then everything's been getting worse and worse. Maybe the date was closer to 1980, when AC/DC cut "Given the Dog a Bone". The historians will figure it out, I'm sure.

I'm not sure if the numbers are actually true, but they sure seem that way for me. Whatever. It only makes me appreciate hot latinas that much more.

[Athlete]

Well, I don't know for sure, but I grew up with a couple of sisters and have lived with a few AWs as roomates, friends and confidants. Based on that experience I don't think a lot of AWs are juggling multiple sex partners - I think these numbers are closer to the truth (although, sure, some people would lie, even if thier responses were anonymous):

"93.9% of the 1481 respondents answered the question about number of sex partners in the past 12 months (Table 1). Overall, 21.5% said they had no sex partner in the past 12 months, 59.6% said one, 10.6% said two to four, 2.2% said five or more, and 6.1% did not answer the question. Six percent of the 638 men and 1.2% of the 843 women indicated that at least one of their sex partners in the past 12 months was a "casual date or pick-up." Four (0.6%) men and no women reported that at least one of their partners was a "person you paid or (who) paid you for sex."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001277.htm

I do know a couple of girls who do that sort of thing. (dating disasters 102: You are looking to jump the ladder and get into her pants, she starts dumping the details of her various lovers on you).

Let's say, generously, ten percent. It's still a lot of women and if you hang out where they hang out, it's going to twist your take on things. The idea that women and men think about sex the same way, well, they just don't.Oh yeah! Women are just known for there stedfast character & prpoensity on not to lie!

Hahahahahahah!

"Women are like monkeys. They do not let go of one vine till they have a hold on another"

[Rock Dog]

One can quote all the statistics from all the surveys in the world. It doesn't mean a damn thing unless there is some kind of assurance that the participants in the survey weren't lying.

I, for one, suspect that a lot of women lie on these surveys. If this is true, then the survey isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Women fuck around.... it's a fact. I've had ex-girlfriends admit as much after the end of a relationship. I've had women call me up when they want to screw around on their boyfriend (revenge-fuck because the guy pissed them off somehow).

With all this going on in my own past, I'm sure there's a lot more going on out there.

It's not like I don't respect women either, because I do.... the same way I'd respect any sneaky deceptive and cunning individual who I know will fuck me over given the chance.

Rock

[Chocha Monger]

women have a wonderful way of rationalizing things. a friend's girlfriend fucked around on him. she then told him that she didn't really fuck the other guy because "he didn't put it all the way in" and he came quick. no shit true story!

then there are my aw friends who don't count one time casual fucks as sex partners because there was no relationship. american women lie to themselves about sex because they don't want to see themselves as sl*ts.

aw are not big on full disclosure either. i've dated women for years before discovering about their abortions, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) or abusive ex-boyfriends. the truth usually comes out when you're least expecting it. imagine sitting out on the balcony of an expensive restaurant enjoying the spectacular view when a pigeon suddenly flies over and shits in your plate of lobster termidor. that is the imagery that best captures the moment of realization that you're dating a seriously fucked in the head female.

forget the surveys. most american women have had miles of cock literally. they may not be giving that ass to you, perhaps you're not a bad boy, but they're slinging that pussy like hot soup on a chow line. if you make decent money and look like potential lifetime sponsor material it's in their interest to show you the "frigid" exterior.

[George90]

Forget the surveys. Most American women have had miles of cock literally. They may not be giving that ass to you, perhaps you're not a bad boy, but they're slinging that pussy like hot soup on a chow line. If you make decent money and look like potential lifetime sponsor material it's in their interest to show you the "frigid" exterior.

I agree. I once had a summer job as a teen where I had the opportunity to a 'fly on the wall" around some women. Sometimes they would tell each other stories of the sex experiences they had with their boyfriends or other men. It was quite a realization to see women being themselves when they didn't care about a male who was within earshot.

[Jelly Donut]

One can quote all the statistics from all the surveys in the world. It doesn't mean a damn thing unless there is some kind of assurance that the participants in the survey weren't lying.



Yeah, people lie. Guys might lie to themselves in a survey about sex in order to cast themselves in one way. Girls might do it as well - a woman might lie in one way to her girlfriends, another to her mother, still another to her husband. However, in my experience, people like to talk about sex honestly if you put them in an environment where they can do so.

Also, there are things about those numbers that can be tested. For instance, "person you paid or (who) paid you for sex." - it's not that difficult to find out if .6 percent is a realistic number or unrealistic. You can measure things like the number of prostitution-related arrests, the amount of cash being withdrawn from ATMs in certain times and places & so forth.

You can figure out the number of abortions, who has them, which women have had more than one. These are not secrets (the names, yes, but not the numbers). The number on STD transmission is not either. Same for the number of condoms sold in a given area or for a given demographic.

You can compare what the men say and what the women say and see if the numbers add up. It takes two*, after all.

You could do all this research, but I still think you end up in the same spot, I just think the survey reflects what you would expect if you lived in a "sex prison".


JD


*at least

[Dodger Bulldog]

I like to ask women, "not counting gays, who do you think has more sex, single men or single women?"

They always answer single men.

Then, "not counting gay sex, who cheats on their spouse more, married men or married women?"

They always answer married men.

So in their view of the world, single men are having more sex, and so are married men.

Who in the hell are they all that having sex with?

Since it takes one woman for every man, it is a zero sum game. For every single man having sex
or married man cheating, there must be a single woman have sex or a married woman cheating.

But they have no problem denying the laws of mathematics because it doesn't square with what
they want to believe: that all men are dogs, and all women are saints.

DB

[Bango Cheito]

There is a possibility that there are a few really "****ty" women taking care of multiple guys needs and balancing the equation that way. To which I say, if it's true, point me in their direction PLEASE! :P

[Dickhead]

"you can figure out the number of abortions, who has them, which women have had more than one. these are not secrets (the names, yes, but not the numbers)."

are you out of your fucking mind? you think all the abortions that are performed end up being measured somehow? you ever hear of a black market? you ever hear of a coat hanger? you ever hear of latin american countries where this is totally hush-hush and back alley? you think that in the us with the religious right and the anti- rowe vs. wade crowd and differing state laws that there are no unrecorded abortions?

jesus fucking christ if an abortion is not a secret and under-reported thing i do not know what is unless it is [CodeWord128] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord128) for god's sakes.

"compare what men say and what women say and see if they add up." oh my goodness. can someone else with better communication skills clue this guy up? rubbie?

q: "president bush, what do you think of rowe vs. wade?"
a: "however they got out of new orleans is fine with me."

this is the most ignorant post i have seen in quite a long time.

[Rock Dog]

I had the perfect answer to Jelly's post..... then I read Bango's reply and realized he'd left nothing more for me to say.

DH, ouch! Kind of harsh?

As far as surveys go, if a woman feels like her answers will be 100% confidential, she MIGHT actually tell the truth. But I still think a lot of them lie about this kind of thing no matter what the circumstances. Definitely a large enough percentage to throw off the validity of the results.

So what is the truth anyways? It's probably not what Bango suggested. There may be a few girls out there doing the nasty with large numbers of men.... but wouldn't that be exactly the behavior they like to accuse us of doing? My guess is that a lot of women cheat, fuck around and do whatever. Then a large number of them lie about it. They lie to their men, lie to their friends, lie on the survey and they even lie to themselves.

This, in my opinion, accounts for most of the difference that shows up in these surveys. Frankly, I'm surprised at the number of them that DO admit what they're doing.

Rock

[Jelly Donut]

There is a possibility that there are a few really "****ty" women taking care of multiple guys needs and balancing the equation that way. To which I say, if it's true, point me in their direction PLEASE! :P

I just assumed that was how it worked. There's a smaller group of women having sex with a larger number of guys. I think DB has a good point - whatever BS AWs are tossing around is just being used to frame a conversation in favor of AWs. If guys are little pigs, there are some women out there that are such huge swine that the equation balances out.

[Jelly Donut]

Are you out of your fucking mind? You think all the abortions that are performed end up being measured somehow? You ever hear of a black market? You ever hear of a coat hanger? .

Abortion is legal in the United States and the numbers are tracked. It's been legal since the 1970's and the numbers on illegal abortions in the United States are quite low.

[Rubber Nursey]

I haven't really been keeping up with this discussion of late, but it seems to me you've gone from b*tching and moaning that American women are all frigid, to b*tching and moaning that American women are all closet sl*ts. Am I missing something here???

I don't think people generally lie on sex surveys - women, in particular, probably take advantage of the fact that they can be completely honest about their sexual activity for once, without having to panic that someone is gonna judge them.

But surveys can be skewed depending on where the pool of participants came from. Interviewing a group of women at a sexual health clinic, for example, will get a very different set of answers than a random phone/mail survey will. Having both married and single women in the same survey really screws with the results, as does including women with small children, or sourcing participants solely from religious or feminist networks. A magazine survey conducted by Cleo or Cosmo would get different results than one conducted by Who or Business Weekly. I think bad research practices would be more to blame for the different stats than participants lying.

For the record, I don't think there's a small group of women doing a large number of men. I think women are just as likely to be out there having casual sex and affairs as you guys are. We just can't talk about it honestly and openly, because we get judged and branded for it.

[Rubber Nursey]

PS: Rock...

Are you really condemning women for having affairs and then lying about it? On a site where tens of thousands of men come to chat about their extramarital sexual activity and even share ways to hide their mongering from their wives???

Sorry, but with all due respect, you guys calling women 'cunning and deceptive' because they have casual sex and don't admit it, is a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black.

And Chocha...

The girl said her cheating didn't count because he didn't put it all the way in? Women don't count casual encounters as sex partners? Do you have any idea how many clients have said to me that having sex with hookers doesn't count! Or what about the guys that come in and ask for a nude massage and hand relief because it's 'not as bad as having sex'? What about all the guys I've blown because they think oral sex 'doesn't count' as cheating on their wife?

I agree that people often justify their sexual behaviour in bizarre ways, but it's certainly not restricted to women. Men are pretty darn good at it as well.

[Rubber Nursey]

i'm posting this in here as an example of why women sometimes get a bit bitter and jaded about men. men like this guy aren't doing the rest of you any favours.

i just received this private message:
______________________________________________________

i dont respect any women married or not.. because most cheat. and most women can not be trusted. you are a woman you fucking know this. dont bull shit a fucking bull shitter. why do women married or not dress like *****s!!!! no no they dont want to be a *****!!! havens to bid. but most want to dress like a *****. with there short short dresses. i have seen happily married women with their hubbies dress like a *****. whats with that??? women i have cohabitated with still dress like a *****. i know whats under that skirt, thank you i dont want the neighborhood to see whats under there. then a woman wonder why she gets [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)!!!! i do respect a ***** that fucks for money its an open transaction no bull shit . both parties know the score. besides marriage to a north american woman is no good the laws are all for her in courts ass [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) the guy for all his assets heavy alimony child support its not worth it. they get filthy fucking fat fat fat and then hold out for sex. please exscuse me i will always fuck *****s they are more honest than a fucking married ***** and a non married *****. and women are smartter than men (cunning as a shit house rat) a guy thats on plan a ha ha ha fuck shes been to plan b c d e while the guy is figureing out plan a.
_________________________________________________________

firstly, if you ever send me something like that again and i will go straight to jackson.

secondly, my last post said that i believe women cheat just as much as men do, so i have no fkn clue what you're raving on about.

thirdly, only a misogynist neanderthal would tell a women how she can and can't dress, let alone suggest that she deserves to get raped because of it.

and lastly, i'm glad you like wh*res so much, because with an attitude like that, no woman would ever want to spend time with you for free.

[Chocha Monger]

ps: rock...

are you really condemning women for having affairs and then lying about it? on a site where tens of thousands of men come to chat about their extramarital sexual activity and even share ways to hide their mongering from their wives???

sorry, but with all due respect, you guys calling women 'cunning and deceptive' because they have casual sex and don't admit it, is a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black.

and chocha...

the girl said her cheating didn't count because he didn't put it all the way in? women don't count casual encounters as sex partners? do you have any idea how many clients have said to me that having sex with hookers doesn't count! or what about the guys that come in and ask for a nude massage and hand relief because it's 'not as bad as having sex'? what about all the guys i've blown because they think oral sex 'doesn't count' as cheating on their wife?

i agree that people often justify their sexual behaviour in bizarre ways, but it's certainly not restricted to women. men are pretty darn good at it as well.
rn,
i think the men you're referring to are called politicians. they are amazing creatures and can take it up the ass without being gay. of late, quite a number have been in the us media giving testimony to that fact. clinton was able to get some brain from monica and avoid cheating on hillary.

however, i still have to admit that men are small timers when it comes to fucking around, lying and making a woman feel like she is the only one in the world. women are far better at doing this. do you know any guys who can convince a woman that a child from another woman is actually her child for over twenty years? perhaps not, but women convince cuckholded men all the time that some other guy's child is actually their own. approximately 25% of children don't belong to the man who thinks he is the biological father. this is not chocha monger's crazy ideas but rather the results of peer reviewed scientific studies.

so while there are guys like taiwan guy who gets his cock sniffed by his wife before she lets him in the door because he's had some hooker pussy, women are still by and large the slicker sex. i'd have never thought of sniffing my wife's **** when she got home late and i have at least average intelligence for a man. yet, women think of things like that. if i were married i wouldn't fuck hookers. i'd save my money and root the wifey's pussy to pieces seeing that it would be costing me a pretty penny to keep around anyways. i'm the kind of guy who drives cars until they fall apart before buying a new one. even the old ones work fine as long as you put in a quart of oil every now and then.

the only problem is that marriage is a real con game. you see most women like to fuck like minks in the early year or two of a long term relationship but if you keep fucking them 6 or 8 times a day they eventually start complaining and then it's time to move on. unfortunately, i'm not rich enough to divorce every few years when the pussy dries up like the nomadic tribesmen of the middle eastern deserts who move from one oasis to another when the water dries up.

[Rubber Nursey]

Nope, I've had literally thousands of clients and waaaaay more than half of the married ones considered sex with me 'not cheating', either because he was paying for it or because we did something other than intercourse. And that's only the guys who actually said it - others may have been thinking it!

I'm not so sure the baby thing is a good example of women's manipulative powers compared to men - he'd have to be a pretty impressive liar to convince a woman she gave birth to someone else's baby! :) But I know what you're saying and it's awful that women would do that. Mind you, plenty of men have other children out there that they haven't told their wife about...to exes, or one-nighters, or affairs. Some guys have entire other families! I know that's kinda different because of the child support etc angle, but it's still a pretty huge deception.

Don't get me wrong...I know women can be lying, cheating b*tches. I'm just saying that I (and the majority of my female friends) have been on the receiving end of exactly the same crap from men. Both sexes are as bad as each other when it comes to honesty and fidelity.

Same goes for men giving up on sex shortly into the relationship, for that matter. I've complained on this Forum many times about past boyfriends with ridiculously low libidos, who 'forced' me to go off in search of some strange. Then there's the guys who 'let themselves go' once you've been together for a while and spend all day on the couch in front of the telly, don't want to go out any more, stop shaving, get fat...sound familiar?

Just out of interest, I've had a number of boyfriends who have used a variation of your 'cock sniffing' trick. God forbid a woman might come home from a party/trip and refuse cunnilingus! Usually I only say no to oral sex if I've got my period and I've had to actually prove that's the case, more than once. It happened to me just a couple of days ago after returning from a week away. I was refusing my bloke's advances and trying to give him a blowjob and he took that as me trying to stop him getting too close and discovering I'd been with someone else!

Which is quite silly, really, coz if I was gonna screw around (which I didn't do anyway) I would have used a condom. And had a shower. *rolls eyes*

[Bango Cheito]

RN, what it is is I think it's a denial mechanism. America is going down the shithole, and nobody wants to see the elephant in the room. So what do they do, they employ the classic strategy of using a SCAPEGOAT. Sometimes that scapegoat is hillbillies, immigrants, people who speak a different language, etc. In the case of this forum it's AW.

The truth of the matter is exactly as you said it, women get just as fucked around by men here as men do by women. Guys, if you think women have PARADISE here in the USA you are DREAMING! The fact is the USA is fucked for both men and women AT THE SAME TIME, and for the SAME REASON.

What you should be worried about is dragging those anti-social tendencies bred into almost every single one of us DOWN with you to your expat destination of choice and fucking things up just as royally. Oh but hey, I'm sure you'll be on this forum quicker than shit to turn around and SLAM the women wherever you are. It's like the old quote "we have met the enemy and he is us".

[Warbucks]

Who do you think is the principal victim in the sex tourism game? I mean you have guys right here on this site such as my self spending thousands of dollars and time which could be put to other productive uses just to go party in such fleshpots as Thailand and the Philippines. I mean I can't complain I earn damn decent living but I know I am an anomaly. For me it’s just a hobby as I have a great steady girl friend and I am fairly young guy. It’s an addictive hobby. I mean these women are getting paid to have sex. I would be naïve to say it’s a dream job but as I said they are getting paid to have sex. What about the guys spending life savings, the children college fund, etc...hiding these expenses from the wife. Who do you think is getting damaged the most? Mentally, Physically, Emotionally and Financially. Most people will say the girls mentally. I will say you can argue the Johns also take a mental bashing? I think.

[DJ FourMoney]

RN, what it is is I think it's a denial mechanism. America is going down the shithole, and nobody wants to see the elephant in the room. So what do they do, they employ the classic strategy of using a SCAPEGOAT. Sometimes that scapegoat is hillbillies, immigrants, people who speak a different language, etc. In the case of this forum it's AW.

The truth of the matter is exactly as you said it, women get just as fucked around by men here as men do by women. Guys, if you think women have PARADISE here in the USA you are DREAMING! The fact is the USA is fucked for both men and women AT THE SAME TIME, and for the SAME REASON.

What you should be worried about is dragging those anti-social tendencies bred into almost every single one of us DOWN with you to your expat destination of choice and fucking things up just as royally. Oh but hey, I'm sure you'll be on this forum quicker than shit to turn around and SLAM the women wherever you are. It's like the old quote "we have met the enemy and he is us".

I agree with you mostly the only thing I can say is this -

When I preach the problems with AW, I generally get an understanding nod from the people within ear shot.

I am not anti-social nor do I harbor ill feelings towards most women. I just don't feel the need to play the game they have largely created because of their bad choices when it comes to men. I have long said that some women should have other people select their mates because they do such a poor job of if themselves. Same goes for Men, but I think some men are desiring to be controlled by some woman.

Why should I date an ugly woman or an ugly and fat woman??? That is what is largely available to me because I -

A) I don't make $50,000 a year
B) I drive a car most people under 25 would own (I love it!)
C) I live at home (changing soon)

Okay so it looks like I will be buying real estate. However I do not care to use that to my advantage with local women. I feel I'll get a better quality "over there" just plain BETTER.

Not saying I can't find that here and not likely in my social circle...

Its much quicker to go to Europe. I did not go to Europe and fuck around on anybody I was committed to because I wasn't committed to anybody. Now one particular German woman my disagree with that, but the TRUTH was, I put her 2nd on the list which she didn't like and tried selection #1. That backfired and I generally didn't recover from that.

So I am not being an expat and fucking up the market over there.

I like European women because they largely don't care about A or B. C would happen regardless, so they are not worried about that either.

[Jelly Donut]

Looking for some clarification....

when you say you've had:
literally thousands of clients it seems to me you are contradicting this idea:
I don't think there's a small group of women doing a large number of men.

All it would take is an almost insignificant number of nymphomaniacs to account for hundreds of thousands of guys getting laid, right? Even a woman who you would not call a "nymphomaniac", say, a woman with a sex-drive on par with an average guy, is going to score way more than that guy.

And generally, guys are driven less and less by sex as they get older - while women tend to get more interested in it as they start running low on eggs. Seriously, I run into a number of AWs in thier late 20's and early 30's who are basically being compelled by biology and time; it seems to me they are an extremely easy mark for a guy. I'm sure the numbers for some of these women get up there.

[Rubber Nursey]

I don't think hookers count, Jelly. :) Even the most rabid nympho probably wouldn't clock up those sorts of numbers. And you're assuming that the men out there who say they're getting heaps of sex, are actually telling the truth...

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Now you're saying that men lose interest in sex as they get older and women get more horny - so how does that fit in with the usual complaint in this thread, that you guys want it all the time and it's your wives that are losing interest???

Seriously, I really don't get you guys. Women just can't win...they're either frigid or they're putting it out all over the place. They can't be both!

Q. What's the difference between a sl*t and a b*tch?
A. A sl*t fucks everyone...a b*tch fucks everyone but you.

[Athlete]

Guys why are we discussing mens issues with a woman?

There ruled by estrogen! Case closed.

No use speaking logic to an illogical creature.

[George90]

Seriously, I really don't get you guys. Women just can't win...they're either frigid or they're putting it out all over the place. They can't be both!

No. An individual woman can't be both frigid and putting out all over the place.

Women as a group can be!

After travelling and mongering, I now view women much more as a very heterogenous group, and judge a woman as an individual.

I have met women who put out all over the place, and don't keep it a secret. I have women who put out all over the place but try to keep it a secret. I have met women who don't put out at all and try to tell it to every person alive who will give her enough time to get to that issue. I have met women who don't put out and don't tell you until it is too late.

I have also met women who put out for everyone except me. And I have met women (too few) who don't out for anyone except me.

There used to be a saying that mothers taught their daughters. I think it is too passe nowadays. A man wants his wife to be a madonna in public and a wh*** (completely unhibited) in private, the bedroom. In that sense, most men do want a woman to be simultaneously frigid and super hot.

[Rock Dog]

PS: Rock...
Are you really condemning women for having affairs and then lying about it? On a site where tens of thousands of men come to chat about their extramarital sexual activity and even share ways to hide their mongering from their wives???
Sorry, but with all due respect, you guys calling women 'cunning and deceptive' because they have casual sex and don't admit it, is a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black.


Ah RN, nice to have you back!

OK, first, I wasn't condemning anyone. Merely offering up an explanation as to why there might be a difference in some statistical results on some survey.

Cunning and deceptive? That's not an insult or a condemnation, but rather a recognition of a worthy adversary. I like to think of myself as having sme of those qualities..... it's hard to be cunning and deceptive if you're some kind of dumbass right? Is there a negative vibe to those words? Sure, but it's also kind of a compliment at the same time.

So in my own particular way, I was saying that I believe women are doing the same things we (men) are doing, and they are just as sneaky as we are.... and just as likely to admit to it.

Rock

[Bnlee2]

Why is there such a big discussion about American/Brit gals, we all know they suck eggs... yes that is the only then that they suck. Most of them are not worthy of such detail discussion.

It is usually fine before getting married but once they move in, everything goes downhill including their saggy boobs. another thing is that when you want to rid them, they become blood thirsty leeches... sucking every assets that you work so hard for.

That it. lets just line them up and banish them to Siberia. I know that Siberia is probably warmer than most of them.

[Dickhead]

Anyone who thinks the number of unreported abortions in the US is "small" is living in a dream world.

[DJ FourMoney]

There used to be a saying that mothers taught their daughters. I think it is too passe nowadays. A man wants his wife to be a madonna in public and a wh*** (completely unhibited) in private, the bedroom. In that sense, most men do want a woman to be simultaneously frigid and super hot.

Well in there you have it in a nutshell...

Too many people are worried about appearances. I say if you need a ***** in your bed, then marry a *****. Chances are like Professional *****s they will give up that lifestyle to be YOUR *****.

The key is finding the hoe with a heart of gold and isn't caught up in how much money she is making. Easier said than done huh?

So many men put up with frigid women in hopes they'll warm up if they commit long term.

A leopard seldom changes its spots, so if you started with frigid; ice woman she shall be for everything but maybe a brief fling for child bearing.

Which might explain why some men are with mousey looking women. They suck a mean dick, take it in the ass, fuck as much as you want and don't complain.

So while we wait for the "perfect storm" he's getting his jollies on a daily.

Which is why every country but the US and largely North America are such a bad choice for LTR's. In other cultures sex is not a bad thing, so women hot to average fuck about the same. Sure you have some women that have been told from day one that they are the best thing to walk this planet and put in no effort at all. But stepping down a notch proves to be more ideal more often than not.

Yes RN far too many men and women want it both ways, impossible...

[Dickhead]

The saying is:

"A woman should be a peasant in the kitchen, a lady in the drawing room, and a harlot in the bedroom."

I think some AWs have this confused as many are ladies in the kitchen, harlots in the drawing room, and peasants in the bedroom.

A lot of the women I meet down here can't cook but that is fine since I can. By and large Latinas are nice and ladylike until you do hit the bedroom and then they become harlots so two out of three ain't bad, as Meat Loaf so eloquently stated. You can always hire a maid to cook, and then you can fuck her too. That is how it works here.

[Rubber Nursey]

George makes a great point with his madonna/wh*re comments, and I think it cuts right to the heart of the double standards that women experience in regard to their sexuality.

As they say, some women you fuck, some you marry. Women who (men consider to be) 'good wife' material are generally not putting it about to every Tom, Dick and Harry...and the women that ARE putting it about are often shunned as potential wives. If a girl fucks on the first date and behaves like a tiger in bed, guys often just have their fun with her and move on, discounting her as marriage material because she's had too much sexual experience. Then they find a 'good' woman, marry her for her child-rearing/housekeeping potential, and then complain when she has a low sex drive or is sexually inexperienced.

The double standard forces sexually active women to lie about their previous experience and high libido, fearing men will think they're a sl*t. Not so active women are forced to lie about their limited experience and low libido, fearing men will think they're frigid. In the early stages of dating, experienced women are downplaying their desire and abilities in bed, so that you guys don't realise they've had heaps of partners before you. Inexperienced women are acting like nymphos and trying to make you believe they will fuck like porn stars 24/7. Both kinds of women will try to match their perceived libido/experience with yours and hide their own.

It makes sense then that after the marriage, the nymphos aren't sexually satisfied and end up having affairs and the frigid girls can't keep up the charade any longer and simply stop putting out.

There's no quick fix to this problem, because the double standard has always existed and probably always will. Men just need to be aware that they are (often not consciously) forcing women to lie about their sexuality and women need to be encouraged to talk honestly and openly about what they really want.

[Chocha Monger]

There's no quick fix to this problem, because the double standard has always existed and probably always will. Men just need to be aware that they are (often not consciously) forcing women to lie about their sexuality and women need to be encouraged to talk honestly and openly about what they really want.
Actually, there is a quick fix to the problem. Men shouldn't marry. If marriage forces women to lie about their sexuality then it forces men into slavery. Gentlemen should limit their activities to sport-fucking women and then moving on. This leaves all the of the poosy in a big communal pool available to all men for the fucking. The practice of taking wives removes all the pretty skinny poosy from the market driving up the threshold of wealth needed to get some decent poosy. The resulting competition among men creates chaos and allows women to have the advantage.

Fucking some fine poosy and then tossing it back into the pool is a great catch and release policy that increases the odds that the average wanker can score himself a good piece of ass every now and then. Women benefit from this poosy management program too because they don't have to tell lies just to get some sucker to marry them. No woman would be considered a hore either because they all can look forward to being treated the same. No more bragging about being married to a doctor or lawyer and wearing big blood diamonds. Oh no, they'll all be getting rooted without big alimony payments. Getting a good root will be its own reward.

[Rubber Nursey]

LMAO! That works for me. :)

[Bango Cheito]

Sounds like a plan.

There is a good deal of hypocrisy on this board and RN is absolutely right about it. I for one have always maintained, I WANT women who are experienced, who have done and will do nasty things, who have had a lot of partners and know their way around the boudoir. I wish all men could "man up" enough to be honest with themselves and admit that this is what they REALLY want. :P

BTW Athlete, go [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) up a rope. RN is an excellent poster and we love her on here. I'd take her little toenail over 100 of you on here any day of the year. You may have a penis like I do but I don't consider you much of a MAN!

[One Wing Low]

Rubber, you are one hell of woman in your understanding and fairness in dealing with both sexes.

You should have your own TV and radio talk shows. You could help a lot of people.

My sincere thought after reading a few of your recent posts.


There's no quick fix to this problem, because the double standard has always existed and probably always will. Men just need to be aware that they are (often not consciously) forcing women to lie about their sexuality and women need to be encouraged to talk honestly and openly about what they really want.

[Chocha Monger]

A lot of men's attitude's come from standards created by women. Really, men spend most of their early years with their mothers who help form their later attitudes towards women. It is usually mamma telling them to marry a "good girl" when they grown up so she can have grandchildren to spoil. When her son starts dating and bringing home girls mamma is the one asking the girl how many boyfriends she's had before or if she is a virgin. Mamma is eager to make sure that her son isn't dating a sl*t. If the girl has had a quite a number of boyfriends mamma will be sure to tell him that he needs to get rid of that hore. Meanwhile, papa will be happy if the girl looks good and isn't a gold digger. Papa's other concerns are usually limited to hoping that his son doesn't knock up the girl and being proud that his boy is rooting some fine poosy.

On the other hand, mamma would have a stroke if her college educated son brought home some single mommy with children from different men. She will be sure to ask, "Son are you crazy? What are you doing with that hore?" She would be terrified of her friends finding out that her son is involved with a woman like that. So, women like mamma are really the ones out there branding women as hores and slots. They decide who is marriage material and who isn't.

[Rubber Nursey]

You're absolutely right, Chocha. Girls cop exactly the same thing from their own parents, just as our parents copped the same thing from their parents...going right back to, you guessed it, the beginning of organised religion. It was the Church who dictated what sort of woman was worthy of marriage and who devised the traditional roles of husband and wife. And told us how, when and where we should have sex. A Church run by men, for men.

The Church gave men the green light to screw around and take mistresses - if caught, it was the mistresses and wh*res who wore the Scarlet letter, never the man. The wanton woman was always to blame for 'good men' straying from the path of righteousness. The Church told women that the enjoyment of sex was prohibited - at some stages even suggesting that women who desired sex were in league with the Devil and should be tried as witches.

The Church messed with nature's two most important rules - the urge to procreate and survival of the fittest. We used to run around having sex indiscriminately to increase the chances of pregnancy. The strongest, fittest women made the ideal mate for the strongest, fittest man, who would then produce the strongest, fittest offspring. Ancient women were admired both as warriors and as nurturers, but the Church labelled their fire as rebellion and their natural empathy and instinct as 'emotion' - turning them into pathetic, frail creatures who needed to be controlled by a firm (male) hand. Leaving them solely as baby-makers. To be sure that those babies they were making belonged to the man they were supposed to, they created modern marriage.

Excuse the history tutorial, but I think it's a very, very important link to understanding the problems we have in society now. The Church denied the human nature of women. They denied us the right to autonomy and controlled our sexuality, but did no such thing to men. Men went through the centuries owning the world around them.

In recent years, the Church has begun to lose its hold on the masses and women have reclaimed what was denied them for so long. I'm not sure whether this was a conscious decision, or whether it was simply nature taking back its control over procreation, but women have clawed back their independence, their strength and their sexuality - which has been both a blessing and a curse.

Obviously, I firmly believe in the emancipation of women. However, without clearly defined gender roles, nobody knows their place in society any more. The messages are all mixed. Like Chocha said, mothers are still teaching their boys (and girls) what it takes to be a 'good' wife and mother. But at the same time, other mothers are telling their daughters (and sons) that women don't need a man at all. Social conditioning tells men that they need to take control and make the decisions and support the family - but these days women are being told exactly the same thing.

I see this as the reason why there are so many contradictions in the behaviour of both genders. Women want to be independent and in control, but they're still conditioned to also want to be supported and treated like a lady. How many times have you been on dates where your chivalry was sneered at, but you were still expected to pay for dinner? Men are enjoying women's new-found sexual freedom, but still taking advantage their Church-given right to walk away without consequence, leaving a trail of fatherless children and STIs in their wake. The courts also uphold these crazy double standards, acknowledging women's unpaid contribution to the household (equal property division), but still refusing to see unmarried women as capable of looking after themselves (alimony).

The Church obviously sees the shift in gender roles as being responsible for the 'moral decline' of today's society, because they're frantically trying to regain their control over women's sexuality - cracking down with renewed vigour on things like abortions, prostitution and contraceptives.

Pagan societies functioned perfectly well with both genders treated as equals. I'm sure we can do it too.

Sorry this ended up so long! :)

[Rubber Nursey]

One Wing Low and Bango...thanks for the props. :)

OWL: As sweet as it is for you to suggest it, men and women don't need to be listening to me on TV or radio - they need to be listening to each other!!!

I was totally blessed by my time in the sex industry. Wh*res get to see a side of both men and women that most people are never exposed to. Wh*res talk and, more importantly, they listen - to their clients and to each other. Being in a completely anonymous environment is extremely conducive to no-holds-barred conversation. Add arousal, nakedness, physical intimacy, etc to the mix and you have the ideal place to talk about all your fears, desires, needs and insecurities.

Men have told me all sorts of things about themselves, but they refuse to speak about them with their significant others. Clients and male friends talk about things their wives do or don't do, pressures they have at work, how they feel about their bodies, what they really want out of their marriages. But when I ask them if they've discussed it with their wives, they always say no. She wouldn't understand/she wouldn't want to hear it/she wouldn't care/she'd be offended/I don't want to bother her with this stuff...

Women do EXACTLY the same thing. How the hell are men and women ever going to understand each other and make each other happy, when we can't even TALK to each other?? You guys are on websites and in pubs b*tching about women and women are in other sites and pubs b*tching about men. All we're doing is perpetuating the gender stereotypes and getting each other riled up about the failings of the opposite sex. Then we're on the defensive and expecting the worst every time we go on a date, end up destroying the relationship before it even begins, then use the breakup as further 'proof' that all men are bastards/all women are b*tches.

We need to get off the merry-go-round!

[Rock Dog]

"A woman should be a peasant in the kitchen, a lady in the drawing room, and a harlot in the bedroom."


Yeah well here's a few extra words from the Rock Dog.

Nowadays a woman is a chameleon in public, a walrus in the bedroom and a vulture in the courtroom.

Rock

[Dickhead]

I like most of the hookers I meet but I proceed slowly and cautiously with them. I want to be with them 4 or 5 times before I get interested in seeing them regularly, and then I want some serious info about them. For example if they are to eat dinner of spend the night, I need to see ID. I am up front about that. But on the initial encounter I will not provide my ID I am risking much more as the foreigner. Hope that helps.

[One Wing Low]

Dear Rubber,

There iwas no church in Asia for the past 50 years.

Why is it that women in Asia fare even worse, then and now, than US or Western Europe women?

You should spend some time in Asia to find out how poorly your Asian sisters are doing....



The Church gave men the green light to screw around and take mistresses - if caught, it was the mistresses and wh*res who wore the Scarlet letter, never the man. The wanton woman was always to blame for 'good men' straying from the path of righteousness. The Church told women that the enjoyment of sex was prohibited - at some stages even suggesting that women who desired sex were in league with the Devil and should be tried as witches.

The Church messed with nature's two most important rules - the urge to procreate and survival of the fittest. We used to run around having sex indiscriminately to increase the chances of pregnancy. The strongest, fittest women made the ideal mate for the strongest, fittest man, who would then produce the strongest, fittest offspring. Ancient women were admired both as warriors and as nurturers, but the Church labelled their fire as rebellion and their natural empathy and instinct as 'emotion' - turning them into pathetic, frail creatures who needed to be controlled by a firm (male) hand. Leaving them solely as baby-makers. To be sure that those babies they were making belonged to the man they were supposed to, they created modern marriage.

Excuse the history tutorial, but I think it's a very, very important link to understanding the problems we have in society now. The Church denied the human nature of women. They denied us the right to autonomy and controlled our sexuality, but did no such thing to men. Men went through the centuries owning the world around them.


Sorry this ended up so long! :)

[Athlete]

Rubber Nursey,

Ancient women were admired as warriors?

[Rubber Nursey]

Dear Rubber,

There is no church in China or Asia for the last 50 years.

Why is it that women in Asia fare even worse, then and now, than US or Western Europe women?

You should spend some time in China to find out how poorly your Chinese, or Asian, sisters are doing....
Actually, I just returned from a week away with a whole lot of sex workers (mainly women) - including a decent sized delegation from Thailand, China and Korea. With SE Asia being our closest neighbours, we are very much concerned with how women are faring up there!

I'll admit that my response was very Anglo-centric and I apologise for that. But it depends on what you mean by Eastern women 'faring worse' than Western women? I was talking about Western men and women dealing with the consequences of empowerment and the reversal of traditional roles. I'm not sure that's really happened in many Asian lands.

In my opinion (and that's all any of my posts are) Asian culture is very, very similar to the rules and regulations the Church has placed on Western women all these years. Women are obedient and subservient, men rule the household, women raise the children (under the husband's guidance), etc. Thanks to TV and the internet and travel, Asian women are slowly starting to pick up Western ways and I believe that things will start changing dramatically in Asian countries, soon enough. But for now, Asian society cares very much about 'face' and public perception, keeping everyone toeing the moral line just like the Church did for so long in Western countries.

I haven't done a whole lot of research into ancient Asian cultures, so I can't comment on the links (if any) between Asian culture and organised religion, but they seem eerily similar to me. And I don't recall Asian society ever really treating men and women as equals, unlike the Kelts, Vikings, etc. To my knowledge (which could certainly be wrong) women have always played a submissive role in most Asian cultures.

Isn't that why so many men in this thread like Asian women so much? They constantly compare Western women to women in other cultures, with particular focus on their submissiveness, their rights as citizens and their willingness to please their man. Women in many other cultures 'know their place'. That's what I think women - and men - are having the most problems with in Western culture. Nobody knows their place.

[Rubber Nursey]

Rubber Nursey,

Ancient women were admired as warriors?
Yep. The Kelts, in particular, valued a woman's prowess in battle. The Vikings have legends about warrior women. The ancient Greeks and Romans both worshipped female warrior deities.

It's survival of the fittest. Men chose women for their strengths, not their weakness. Women in many ancient cultures owned the property, passed on the family name, ran the communities.

Women had the single-most powerful ability...the ability to create new life. At the time men didn't understand it, so they respected it. When organised religion came about, they no longer respected it - they feared it. It was the one thing that men could not control. That's why so many midwives were put to death as witches.

[Rubber Nursey]

Sorry...history is my passion and I've managed to go off on a crazy tangent about it. I didn't mean to. The point I was trying to make is that men and women have lived these ridiculous separate lives for way too long. We need to work together and communicate with each other if we ever hope to fix it.

[Brian Moloney]

Actually, I just returned from a week away with a whole lot of sex workers (mainly women) - including a decent sized delegation from Thailand, China and Korea. With SE Asia being our closest neighbours, we are very much concerned with how women are faring up there!

I'll admit that my response was very Anglo-centric and I apologise for that. But it depends on what you mean by Eastern women 'faring worse' than Western women? I was talking about Western men and women dealing with the consequences of empowerment and the reversal of traditional roles. I'm not sure that's really happened in many Asian lands.

In my opinion (and that's all any of my posts are) Asian culture is very, very similar to the rules and regulations the Church has placed on Western women all these years. Women are obedient and subservient, men rule the household, women raise the children (under the husband's guidance), etc. Thanks to TV and the internet and travel, Asian women are slowly starting to pick up Western ways and I believe that things will start changing dramatically in Asian countries, soon enough. But for now, Asian society cares very much about 'face' and public perception, keeping everyone toeing the moral line just like the Church did for so long in Western countries.

I haven't done a whole lot of research into ancient Asian cultures, so I can't comment on the links (if any) between Asian culture and organised religion, but they seem eerily similar to me. And I don't recall Asian society ever really treating men and women as equals, unlike the Kelts, Vikings, etc. To my knowledge (which could certainly be wrong) women have always played a submissive role in most Asian cultures.

Isn't that why so many men in this thread like Asian women so much? They constantly compare Western women to women in other cultures, with particular focus on their submissiveness, their rights as citizens and their willingness to please their man. Women in many other cultures 'know their place'. That's what I think women - and men - are having the most problems with in Western culture. Nobody knows their place.Western women think the world owes them a living. Because they have a thing call giving life. To bad most don't do there job in learning how to take care of there other half. Useing sex as a tool. Ha ha ha after a few years of packing on all that lard. (some thing you don't see in ee countries that often) there are men that know whats going on in ee countries. The dyevuchkas know there place and competition is fierce for them finding a good man. I respect dr, shank he is god. I am sure he perfers some slim beautiful no bad attitude world don't owe me a living dyevuchka. Than a fat lard ass bad attitude na woman. Ha ha ha shanker you are laughing to yourself but you know what I am talking about. He he he I to have found paridise living there on and off for 10 years. You once said quote" once you taste the russian dyevuchka theres no turning back, you are fuck because you are hook. Truer words were never spoken dr. Shank. I know what you mean.

[Bango Cheito]

HAHAHA we're about to enter a full-blown discussion of Isian vs Osirian civilizations here.

I think we went through the Mother worship thing, then the Father worship thing, now we are going to have to find a way to take the best of both worlds and run with it.

[Chocha Monger]

by gail saltz
todayshow.com contributor
updated 10:37 p.m. ct, thurs., oct. 25, 2007


q. menopause and hot flashes have taken my sex life away. my wife is 54 and started menopause at 46. for the past eight years it has been like i am married to my sister. my wife has no desire for sex and will not take hormones because they could cause cancer. i am not allowed to touch her because that would bring on a hot flash. there is no physical contact and what makes it worse is i love her so much.

we have been together 27 years and i cannot imagine being with another woman, if you lined up all the women, i still would pick her. she is so beautiful and it is torture not being able to hold the one you love. i think about sex with her all the time and am frustrated and sad and feel unwanted.

i do not want a divorce and do not want to start my life over. i want my wife back. i have lost hope that will ever happen and do not know how to adjust. i do not think i can go the rest of my life without being able to hold and cuddle and make love to someone who will love me back the same way i want her too. what can i do?

a. your note is very touching. can you show this column to your wife? when a man feels frustrated, sad and unwanted, as you do, he can unwittingly come off to his wife as angry and abrupt. you may not be expressing your feelings to her as eloquently as you are to me.

so if you do come off as feeling annoyed rather than feeling abandoned, the misunderstood result is that your wife doesn’t perceive your love and tenderness at all. instead, she retreats, feeling she is wanted only for sex. this will make a woman who is already not in the mood feel even less in the mood. an angry or importuning approach never feels like real intimacy, even if the desire for real intimacy is what's behind it.

things have probably snowballed over time so that now, every time you approach your wife, she thinks it is for sex. this is why she always has an excuse — like if you touch her, that will bring on a hot flash.

being touched does not trigger hot flashes. the bigger message from your wife is that sex, for whatever reason, is something she doesn’t want, so keep away.

it’s true that, for some women, their libido might be diminished by menopause, but that doesn’t mean her need for intimacy is. many post-menopausal women have active romantic lives with their husbands, even though intercourse might take more effort than before.

your non-sexual status has continued for eight years. if it keeps going, your love for your wife will start to diminish. your quality of life already has. as you know, the answer is not to find someone else. i certainly understand your wish not to live the rest of your life without being able to hold and cuddle and make love to your wife. with many years ahead of you, you shouldn’t allow her to impose this celibate state upon you. so here are a few suggestions.

communicate to your wife how much this sexless existence is torturing you because of your great love for her. and, to feel loved in return, you need to be sexual with each other. to start with, don’t coerce or insist. rather, let her know that you crave intimacy with her and feel abandoned without it, which is why she must help you change this. if she could truly stand in your shoes, she would want to do something about this, unless she doesn’t love you, which sounds like it is not the case.

studies on hormone replacement are conflicting. unless your wife has a family history of cancer, it’s unclear what the best course of action is. oral estrogen isn’t the only kind — there are creams and suppositories that can be used more locally. so one option is that your wife ask her gynecologist about hormone therapies that are not ingested. testosterone is really the hormone of desire, and she should probably have her level checked to make sure that's not the culprit. sometimes the answer is as simple as lots of lubricant.

because so much time has passed, you might need to see a certified sex therapist. after eight years of no sexual contact, it will probably help to restart slowly.

one technique used by certified sex therapists is to start with physical interactions that are not sexual. a technique called "sensate focus” means that you massage and touch each other in a loving way, excluding the genitals altogether. there are no expectations and no pressure. this works because it diminishes the anxious partner's worries about having sex. you later move on to include genitals but you do not have intercourse. only when the anxious partner is completely comfortable do you try intercourse.

ultimately, though threats are not a good way to improve your love life with your wife, it's reasonable to let her know that you don't think you can stay forever in a sexless marriage.

dr. gail’s bottom line: when one partner has shut the door on sex in a marriage, it can have devastating effects, so it is imperative to work on this.

[Capt Ajax]

is this guy for real.........he's asking what he should he do!!!!!!!!!! he needs to
become a sex tourist and visit all the "sex" hot spots in thailand, brazil and the fkk's in germany...problemo solved.



by gail saltz
todayshow.com contributor
updated 10:37 p.m. ct, thurs., oct. 25, 2007

q. menopause and hot flashes have taken my sex life away. my wife is 54 and started menopause at 46. for the past eight years it has been like i am married to my sister. my wife has no desire for sex and will not take hormones because they could cause cancer. i am not allowed to touch her because that would bring on a hot flash. there is no physical contact and what makes it worse is i love her so much.

we have been together 27 years and i cannot imagine being with another woman, if you lined up all the women, i still would pick her. she is so beautiful and it is torture not being able to hold the one you love. i think about sex with her all the time and am frustrated and sad and feel unwanted.

i do not want a divorce and do not want to start my life over. i want my wife back. i have lost hope that will ever happen and do not know how to adjust. i do not think i can go the rest of my life without being able to hold and cuddle and make love to someone who will love me back the same way i want her too. what can i do?

a. your note is very touching. can you show this column to your wife? when a man feels frustrated, sad and unwanted, as you do, he can unwittingly come off to his wife as angry and abrupt. you may not be expressing your feelings to her as eloquently as you are to me.

so if you do come off as feeling annoyed rather than feeling abandoned, the misunderstood result is that your wife doesn’t perceive your love and tenderness at all. instead, she retreats, feeling she is wanted only for sex. this will make a woman who is already not in the mood feel even less in the mood. an angry or importuning approach never feels like real intimacy, even if the desire for real intimacy is what's behind it.

things have probably snowballed over time so that now, every time you approach your wife, she thinks it is for sex. this is why she always has an excuse — like if you touch her, that will bring on a hot flash.

being touched does not trigger hot flashes. the bigger message from your wife is that sex, for whatever reason, is something she doesn’t want, so keep away.

it’s true that, for some women, their libido might be diminished by menopause, but that doesn’t mean her need for intimacy is. many post-menopausal women have active romantic lives with their husbands, even though intercourse might take more effort than before.

your non-sexual status has continued for eight years. if it keeps going, your love for your wife will start to diminish. your quality of life already has. as you know, the answer is not to find someone else. i certainly understand your wish not to live the rest of your life without being able to hold and cuddle and make love to your wife. with many years ahead of you, you shouldn’t allow her to impose this celibate state upon you. so here are a few suggestions.

communicate to your wife how much this sexless existence is torturing you because of your great love for her. and, to feel loved in return, you need to be sexual with each other. to start with, don’t coerce or insist. rather, let her know that you crave intimacy with her and feel abandoned without it, which is why she must help you change this. if she could truly stand in your shoes, she would want to do something about this, unless she doesn’t love you, which sounds like it is not the case.

studies on hormone replacement are conflicting. unless your wife has a family history of cancer, it’s unclear what the best course of action is. oral estrogen isn’t the only kind — there are creams and suppositories that can be used more locally. so one option is that your wife ask her gynecologist about hormone therapies that are not ingested. testosterone is really the hormone of desire, and she should probably have her level checked to make sure that's not the culprit. sometimes the answer is as simple as lots of lubricant.

because so much time has passed, you might need to see a certified sex therapist. after eight years of no sexual contact, it will probably help to restart slowly.

one technique used by certified sex therapists is to start with physical interactions that are not sexual. a technique called "sensate focus” means that you massage and touch each other in a loving way, excluding the genitals altogether. there are no expectations and no pressure. this works because it diminishes the anxious partner's worries about having sex. you later move on to include genitals but you do not have intercourse. only when the anxious partner is completely comfortable do you try intercourse.

ultimately, though threats are not a good way to improve your love life with your wife, it's reasonable to let her know that you don't think you can stay forever in a sexless marriage.

dr. gail’s bottom line: when one partner has shut the door on sex in a marriage, it can have devastating effects, so it is imperative to work on this.

[CBGBConnisur]

Not everyone can travel overseas, fyi German FKKs are something that you need to experience at least once in your life, they are incredible, a club filled with often supermodel quality women who will offer you any dirty fantasy come reality in the back of your head for a small amount of cash is amazing.

[Dickhead]

Another thing he should do is lie next to her, beat off, and wipe it all over her.

[Doctor_Skank]

Another thing he should do is lie next to her, beat off, and wipe it all over her.
BTDT :)))))

[DJ FourMoney]

Not everyone can travel overseas, fyi German FKKs are something that you need to experience at least once in your life, they are incredible, a club filled with often supermodel quality women who will offer you any dirty fantasy come reality in the back of your head for a small amount of cash is amazing.

Co-sign

Its current $579RT to fly from LAX to Frankfurt,Munich, Berlin or Cologne. If you don't mind the cold weather, you could spend all day in an quality FKK.

I highly recommend it!

[Chocha Monger]

10 November 2007
From New Scientist Print Edition

EVEN climate change cannot escape the gender wars. Now Swedish men are being blamed for having a disproportionately large impact on global warming.

The finger is squarely pointed at men in "A study on gender equality as a prerequisite for sustainable development" by Gerd Johnsson-Latham of the Swedish Ministry of Sustainable Development. She concludes: "The fact that women travel less than men, measured in person-kilometres per car, plane, boat and motorcycle - means that women cause considerably fewer carbon dioxide emissions than men, and thus considerably less climate change." She notes that 60 per cent of car emissions are created by the 10 per cent of drivers who use roads the most, and that men account for three-quarters of car driving in Sweden.

Women do not escape censure, however. The report notes that in Sweden, women spend four times as much as men on consumer goods and - in a further dig at men, albeit unintended - 20 times as much on hygiene products.

[CBGBConnisur]

Don't kid yourself, marriage is a rapidly dying institution in the USA. More and more people in Western countries are not getting married and its not surprising why this has happened.

[Ezinho]

Don't kid yourself, marriage is a rapidly dying institution in the USA. More and more people in Western countries are not getting married and its not surprising why this has happened.
Here is an article published a few days ago that encourages young men to neither get married nor have children.

I wonder if Dr. Stephen Baskerville is a fellow monger?

http://www.americandaily.com/article/20896

Marriage is a foundation of civilized life. No advanced civilization has ever existed without the married, two-parent family. Those who argue that our civilization needs healthy marriages to survive are not exaggerating.

And yet I cannot, in good conscience, urge young men to marry today. For many men (and some women), marriage has become nothing less than a one-way ticket to jail. Even the New York Times has reported on how easily “the divorce court leads to a jail cell,” mostly for men. In fact, if I have one urgent piece of practical advice for young men today it is this: Do not marry and do not have children.

Spreading this message may also, in the long run, be the most effective method of saving marriage as an institution. For until we understand that the principal threat to marriage today is not cultural but political, and that it comes not from homosexuals but from heterosexuals, we will never reverse the decline of marriage. The main destroyer of marriage, it should be obvious, is divorce. Michael McManus of Marriage Savers points out that “divorce is a far more grievous blow to marriage than today’s challenge by gays.” The central problem is the divorce laws.

It is well known that half of all marriages end in divorce. But widespread misconceptions lead many to believe it cannot happen to them. Many conscientious people think they will never be divorced because they do not believe in it. In fact, it is likely to happen to you whether you wish it or not.

First, you do not have to agree to the divorce or commit any legal transgression. Under “no-fault” divorce laws, your spouse can divorce you unilaterally without giving any reasons. The judge will then grant the divorce automatically without any questions.

But further, not only does your spouse incur no penalty for breaking faith; she can actually profit enormously. Simply by filing for divorce, your spouse can take everything you have, also without giving any reasons. First, she will almost certainly get automatic and sole custody of your children and exclude you from them, without having to show that you have done anything wrong. Then any unauthorized contact with your children is a crime. Yes, for seeing your own children you will be subject to arrest.

There is no burden of proof on the court to justify why they are seizing control of your children and allowing your spouse to forcibly keep you from them. The burden of proof (and the financial burden) is on you to show why you should be allowed to see your children.

The divorce industry thus makes it very attractive for your spouse to divorce you and take your children. (All this earns money for lawyers whose bar associations control the careers of judges.) While property divisions and spousal support certainly favor women, the largest windfall comes through the children. With custody, she can then demand “child support” that may amount to half, two-thirds, or more of your income. (The amount is set by committees consisting of feminists, lawyers, and enforcement agents – all of whom have a vested interest in setting the payments as high as possible.) She may spend it however she wishes. You pay the taxes on it, but she gets the tax deduction.

You could easily be left with monthly income of a few hundreds dollars and be forced to move in with relatives or sleep in your car. Once you have sold everything you own, borrowed from relatives, and maximized your credit cards, they then call you a “deadbeat dad” and take you away in handcuffs. You are told you have “abandoned” your children and incarcerated without trial.

Evidence indicates that, as men discover all this, they have already begun an impromptu marriage "strike": refusing to marry or start families, knowing they can be criminalized if their wife files for divorce. "Have anti-father family court policies led to a men's marriage strike?" ask Glenn Sacks and Dianna Thompson in the Philadelphia Enquirer. In Britain, fathers tour university campuses warning young men not to start families. In his book, From Courtship to Courtroom, Attorney Jed Abraham concludes that the only protection for men to avoid losing their children and everything else is not to start families in the first place.

Is it wise to disseminate such advice? If people stop marrying, what will become of the family and our civilization?

Marriage is already all but dead, legally speaking, and divorce is the principal reason. The fall in the Western birth rate is directly connected with divorce law.

It is also likely that same-sex marriage is being demanded only because of how heterosexuals have already debased marriage through divorce law. “The world of no-strings heterosexual hookups and 50% divorce rates preceded gay marriage,” advocate Andrew Sullivan points out. “All homosexuals are saying...is that, under the current definition, there’s no reason to exclude us. If you want to return straight marriage to the 1950s, go ahead. But until you do, the exclusion of gays is simply an anomaly – and a denial of basic civil equality.”

We will not restore marriage by burying our heads in the sand; nor simply by preaching to young people to marry, as the Bush administration’s government therapy programs now do. The way to restore marriage as an institution in which young people can place their trust, their children, and their lives is to make it an enforceable contract. We urgently need a national debate about divorce, child custody, and the terms under which the government can forcibly sunder the bonds between parents and their children. We owe it to future generations, if there are to be any.

Stephen Baskerville, Ph.D.

[Bango Cheito]

I think the guy's fulla shit. The first sentence he opens up with is already BS.

The ancient Greeks and Romans had families but NOTHING like the way we envision them today. They were pretty fucking far from monogamous.

[Zing23]

hi all,

I have spent 2 years mongering with colombianas in st maarten, once or twice a week, usually 3 girls per day. Cost is $40-$45 for 20 to 30 minutes CFS. DFK and BBBJ and other GFE is not common unless you repeat with the same girl, say about 20% BBBJ on the first visit (this is important to me). They have to session with at least 3 guys per day to pay their costs, at least 6 to make any money. An hour session costs $60 TO $100.

in this high volume brothel environment, it took me a long time to work out a scheme for eliciting GFE: give massages, bring latin music wiith me on my ipod to play in their room, give small gifts like CDs, and a few other tricks.

after fine tuning my strategy for 2 years I spent 12 weeks in the USA.

Yikes! Very few Colombian women when I was located. Smallish town (100,000 people).

For similar comfort and safety level, I decided I could only go with escorts that had been in business for a while. And they wanted about $300 for an hour. At first this seemed outrageously expensive versus $100, but when I compared the level of regular salaries in colombia with USA, $300 is actually aoout right to entice girls into the work.

I visited with about 20 girls in my small town and 3 in a large city nearby (where I used the most prestiguous agency recommended on some US boards).

My conclusions:

1. in small towns, the sex workers tend to be less beautiful than in the large city, for same price. this makes sense, not as great a population to draw on for workers and clients. many were older (mid 30s or more), or had some weight on them, or were skinny. didn't run into any obvious druggies at this price level. the colombian girls that come to st maarten average younger and cuter, but not by that much. the real stunners stay home in colombia. and the girls I visited in the big city were very good looking and gave great service.

2. 90% of the girls offered BBBJ without even being asked.

3. I used the same exact strategy on American workers as Colombians. Romantic music, massages for their sore backs and feet, small gifts, etc The results were very good. I had great sex with almost every one. The two best looking ones were not that great (one was 18 and had only been in the business a few days and the other was a brazilian with the best body i have ever touched, but not much sexual skill). In spite of my american friend's gloomy predicitons, I got the same reaction from American girls as Colombian. GFE service.

4. Unlike with latina girls, there was no jealousy or attempts to make me their exclusive "boyfriend". That was a relief.

So american working women are not so bad. (I have also mongered in German FKK clubs and in Singapore and in the Phillipines).

-zing

[Bango Cheito]

Yeah but in Colombia you could get the same woman for 1/10 of what you would pay in the US, whereas they earn in the bigger cities maybe 1/5 of what you'd earn in the US.

I wouldn't say Colombian WGs offer a better GFE than American WGs though, In my experience they are pretty much neck and neck. Brazilians (IN BRAZIL) are far and away above both of them for that.

[DJ FourMoney]

hi all,

I have spent 2 years mongering with colombianas in st maarten, once or twice a week, usually 3 girls per day. Cost is $40-$45 for 20 to 30 minutes CFS. DFK and BBBJ and other GFE is not common unless you repeat with the same girl, say about 20% BBBJ on the first visit (this is important to me). They have to session with at least 3 guys per day to pay their costs, at least 6 to make any money. An hour session costs $60 TO $100.

in this high volume brothel environment, it took me a long time to work out a scheme for eliciting GFE: give massages, bring latin music wiith me on my ipod to play in their room, give small gifts like CDs, and a few other tricks.

after fine tuning my strategy for 2 years I spent 12 weeks in the USA.

Yikes! Very few Colombian women when I was located. Smallish town (100,000 people).

For similar comfort and safety level, I decided I could only go with escorts that had been in business for a while. And they wanted about $300 for an hour. At first this seemed outrageously expensive versus $100, but when I compared the level of regular salaries in colombia with USA, $300 is actually aoout right to entice girls into the work.

I visited with about 20 girls in my small town and 3 in a large city nearby (where I used the most prestiguous agency recommended on some US boards).

My conclusions:

1. in small towns, the sex workers tend to be less beautiful than in the large city, for same price. this makes sense, not as great a population to draw on for workers and clients. many were older (mid 30s or more), or had some weight on them, or were skinny. didn't run into any obvious druggies at this price level. the colombian girls that come to st maarten average younger and cuter, but not by that much. the real stunners stay home in colombia. and the girls I visited in the big city were very good looking and gave great service.

2. 90% of the girls offered BBBJ without even being asked.

3. I used the same exact strategy on American workers as Colombians. Romantic music, massages for their sore backs and feet, small gifts, etc The results were very good. I had great sex with almost every one. The two best looking ones were not that great (one was 18 and had only been in the business a few days and the other was a brazilian with the best body i have ever touched, but not much sexual skill). In spite of my american friend's gloomy predicitons, I got the same reaction from American girls as Colombian. GFE service.

4. Unlike with latina girls, there was no jealousy or attempts to make me their exclusive "boyfriend". That was a relief.

So american working women are not so bad. (I have also mongered in German FKK clubs and in Singapore and in the Phillipines).

-zing

Shouldn't this post belong on the Short Term broad?

[Zing23]

hey, I was just reporting what I experienced in America. I was surprised how good the service was, given all the doom and gloom stories from my friends. Perhaps they were shopping at a lower price point! I wasn't necessarily saying was better value, but sometimes travelling mongers don't factor in the cost of vacation days lost, air tickets, hotels, etc. when computing the cost per hour with a girl.

World wide the most spectacular GFE I ever experienced was in the FKK clubs of germany, with a price significantly less than $300 per hour, even with the low $.

-zing

[Doctor_Skank]

Daddy not so dearest

Australian men's groups are calling for mandatory paternity testing of all newborns as it emerges a record number of men are finding they are not the fathers of children they believed to be theirs.

Almost a quarter of paternity tests conducted by one of Australia's largest DNA laboratory companies show the man submitting a sample is not the father, compared to an estimated one in 10 "exclusions" 10 years ago.
The number of tests taken in Australia has doubled from 3000 in 2003 to more than 6000 last year.
Thousands of men are turning to DIY testing kits - available online - to discover whether they are the biological father while they are still in a relationship and without telling their partners about their suspicions.
Some have brought up children to adulthood or paid tens of thousands of dollars in maintenance to the Child Support Agency (CSA) before finding out they have no genetic link.
Australian Men's Rights Agency co-director Sue Price said: "People's lives are being ruined by this. It is not just the men, it's the children who grow up thinking one person is their father and then find out it's someone else.
"In the future, more and more health treatments are going to be based on genetic technology, so it is going to be even more important to know who your biological father is.
"Mandatory testing would get rid of all these problems."
The DNA Bio Services lab conducts more than 2000 such tests a year from the sale of its DIY kits.
New 2007 figures compiled by the company show that one in 4.5 paternity tests exclude the man as the biological father - a record high since DNA testing began 10 years ago. Managing director Gary Miller said: "The increase is across all social classes and ages - it affects everyone.
"Before, a lot of the work was for men who had been contacted by a woman or the CSA for maintenance and wanted a test to prove they weren't the father.
"Now we see a lot of men in a relationship or just out of one who are just looking for reassurance that they are the father and then find out they're not and are completely devastated."
Under Australian law, the family courts will only order a paternity test if there are reasonable grounds to doubt that the estranged partner is not the biological father.
The CSA does not require proof of paternity beyond a birth certificate or acceptance by a man that he is the father. This means some men pay tens of thousands of dollars through the CSA before finding out they are not the father.
Even if they have brought the children up for years as their own, they are then denied any legal rights of access to them.
Some experts say the proportion of negative paternity tests reflects the fact that the men coming forward already have reasonable doubts, and that of the entire population, only 1 per cent of fathers are not the "real" parent.
Professor Margaret Otlowski, deputy director of the University of Tasmania's Centre for Law and Genetics, said: "I don't think mandatory testing is a good idea.
"I can see the argument from the point of view of creating certainty about parentage, but it would stem from a very suspicious premise and there would be huge implications in terms of relationships."


http://www.stuff.co.nz/4278228a19716.html

[DJ FourMoney]

hey, I was just reporting what I experienced in America. I was surprised how good the service was, given all the doom and gloom stories from my friends. Perhaps they were shopping at a lower price point! I wasn't necessarily saying was better value, but sometimes travelling mongers don't factor in the cost of vacation days lost, air tickets, hotels, etc. when computing the cost per hour with a girl.

World wide the most spectacular GFE I ever experienced was in the FKK clubs of germany, with a price significantly less than $300 per hour, even with the low $.

-zing


No Problem and I don't discount local vs overseas...

All I can go on is this -

Its been said before but I visited a LPN in Nevada and was quoted $700 for unlimited positions and as many "pops" I can have without clock watching but I would assume that would be an hour. I also assume CBJ, No Anal and more than likely some limited movement.

Compare that to flying to Europe in the off-season which currently is much less than $700 US R/T from LAX. Where if you economize, you can get $70US in a Germany FKK and get everything but Anal (in 1/2 hr) and it can vary from pretty darn good to outstanding GFE.

I got GFE once, ripped off another time and PSE another time. Between that, it was RLD "Quickies" and by the end of my 10 day stay in Frankfurt, I was basically tired of fucking...

All for about $600US at the time I went (this pass summer)

Locally, my goodness, you can't get that kind of value at any price, unless you go down to Mexico.

I'm not saying your experience is on the level of "Even a Blind Squirrel can find a nut" mentality I'm was just pointing out that maybe your experince would be best shared in the STR forum as I believe the main focus of this forum is American Women for LTR and why that's such a BAD IDEA.

[CBGBConnisur]

Yeah but in Colombia you could get the same woman for 1/10 of what you would pay in the US, whereas they earn in the bigger cities maybe 1/5 of what you'd earn in the US.

I wouldn't say Colombian WGs offer a better GFE than American WGs though, In my experience they are pretty much neck and neck. Brazilians (IN BRAZIL) are far and away above both of them for that.

The big cities in Brazil are EXPENSIVE, and I don't think good Brazilian women are in any way easy, they have no problems marrying a good husband from their own country at all. I have run into large groups of students in Australia who come from Brazil, these people are obviously from the upper classes, and they are totally nose in air types. These Brazilians are pretty much 90 percent white European, and often have some rather racist attitudes too, Brazil is pretty damn racist, even the most rednecky parts of the Southeast US are nothing in comparison. Rio has reasonable providers but those in Sao Paulo are up in the sky expensive.

[John Pokes]

I'd just like to point out that while we spend a lot of time complaining about North American women the guys in the countries we go to to get laid are fantasizing about our women.

[Bango Cheito]

I've never been to SP but prices I have seen and heard about people paying range from R8 to R800. I think it's more all over the map than Rio is price-wise, but any price point can be found. Can't say I could say for certain what R8 would get ya though, if it's anything you'd wanna touch even with someone else's dick :P

I can GUARANTEE you no Colombian or Brazilian guy is fantasizing about American pussy, especially if they ever spent any time here. It's just so much easier to get laid PERIOD in those countries. Guys that aren't getting any there are not likely to make it to the US and if they get here they aren't getting anywhere near a decent-looking woman I can GUARANTEE you that!

[Ezinho]

i'd just like to point out that while we spend a lot of time complaining about north american women the guys in the countries we go to to get laid are fantasizing about our women.
i agree with bango that it's a laughable notion that guys in south america are fantasizing about western women. maybe they do have a desire to bang certain hollywood celebrities, but how realistic is that?

having said that, i actually have met some *european* guys that do seem to like american women, believe it or not. one was a british guy who was a roomate of mine for a brief period of time in brasil. he had been to the states once before on vacation and apparently he did quite well for himself with aws; according to him, they loved his english accent, and after a spending an evening in the bars he always seemed to pull a "hot bird". keep in mind he was on vacation in florida, so i think that had something to do with it. but he actually was looking to return to the u.s. someday, and was asking me about the best place to meet women in california. i was actually speechless for a moment, since he was asking me this while we were living in brasil! but he really liked aws.

then, when i was in ecuador, i met a swedish guy who had lived in the u.s. for about a year, and he liked aws as well! in addition to having good luck in the bars, he also said he liked the strip clubs in the u.s. and specifically commented that "every city in the u.s. seems to have a strip club, even little towns out in the middle of nowhere". he also mentioned that prostitution in sweden was illegal.

i've never been to europe, so i can't compare women. i would like to point out that both of these guys seemed kind of dumb to me, so i never really put much value to what they said. maybe it's just the concept of leaving one sex prison for another, since the uk and sweden both seem repressive when it comes to sex, much like america.

or maybe, our women in america are opening their legs for every guy that crosses the atlantic?

[Capt Ajax]

I'd just like to point out that while we spend a lot of time complaining about North American women the guys in the countries we go to to get laid are fantasizing about our women.

I agree........Unfortunately most guys overseas assume wrongly that all AW here look like the women portrayed in the Hollywood movies. A complete falsehood IMHO.

[Capt Ajax]

Or maybe, our women in America are opening their legs for every guy that crosses the Atlantic?

Ezinho you might have a point with this statement. While I was studying in London many years ago it was pretty easy to pick up young AW, many of whom were backpacking through Europe during the summer.

[George90]

I'd just like to point out that while we spend a lot of time complaining about North American women the guys in the countries we go to to get laid are fantasizing about our women.


I can GUARANTEE you no Colombian or Brazilian guy is fantasizing about American pussy, especially if they ever spent any time here. It's just so much easier to get laid PERIOD in those countries. Guys that aren't getting any there are not likely to make it to the US and if they get here they aren't getting anywhere near a decent-looking woman I can GUARANTEE you that!

While Bango is partly correct regarding how women look, he is incorrect about the fantasizing. I have read accounts about Latin men, mostly in the Dominican Republic, looking to hook up with American women. The going joke was that Dominican men were into the 3 Bs, blonde hair, big boobs, and a blue passport. Latin men chase AW for the same reason that many Latin women chase us, the opportunity to marry and move to the US!

Other Latin men who prefer to stay in their countries do the same thing that Latin women do; they string AWs along and persuade them to send money overseas. The men who do this are called sankies. They chat up fat ugly AWs and tell them how beautiful they are but need money to help their sick mothers, etc. etc. and the AWs oblige.

There is a movie about how overseas men prefer 'rounder' women, called "Phat Girlz". Some overweight Black women who are dissed in the US go to Africa where they are worshipped.

[Rock Dog]

Regarding recent posts about men not wanting to get married....

I'm 100% in agreement with this. The idea of a so-called marriage strike is absolute genius! Hit them were it hurts and deny them any chance whatsoever to get at you through legal means. Then you can negotiate terms from a position of strength.

No man in his right mind would (or should) ever consider marrying a western woman. If you must, find yourself a woman from some part of the world where marriage still means something. Treat her with a reasonable amount of respect and don't screw around on her (or at least keep it to a low-key minimum). You aren't anywhere near as likely to end up in some no-fault, feminazi legal nightmare.

I suppose another safe wayto get married would be to put it off until you can afford to expatriate and then get married in another country where the divorce laws aren't so insane.

Sometimes I think there are women out there who have their divorce plans made up before they even meet the victim... er, guy that they end up marrying. This makes me think of something I heard about Tom Cruise. There was a rumor that part of the reason he divorced Nicole Kidman was that he knew she'd be able to take him to the cleaners if they got divorced after being married for more than 10 years. So he struck first, and got rid of her before the "price" got too high. The guy might be a wacko, but he ain't stupid.

Rock

[Bango Cheito]

George, I wasn't talking about the sankies. I was talking about Latin men thinking gringas are ATTRACTIVE and FANTASIZING about them.

Rock Dog, don't forget one important point, especially since you're writing from Canada, in that country once you have been shacking up with a girl for 6 months, you are automatically married in many respects in the eyes of the law. I had a friend in Toronto who played house with some stripper for just over 6 months, next thing he knew AFTER he got signed by a major label and his band got a nice advance to record from the label this fucking biatch appears out of nowhere, sues him and WINS. She even got half his PAID OFF house! So keep your own distinct address and careful about letting them crash too much :P

BTW in Colombia and Brazil the laws are much the same as they are in Canada, but the length of time is longer (2 years).

[Sasha Coffee]

Not marrying them won't help.

Women will just moan and groan until the laws get changed and you will have to split your assets after dating them for a year wether you live with or marry them or even if you don't.

Hell has no fury like a woman scorned.

A woman who is intent on getting hold of a mans assets will find a way or a gulliable man.

[Chocha Monger]

Not marrying them won't help.

Women will just moan and groan until the laws get changed and you will have to split your assets after dating them for a year wether you live with or marry them or even if you don't.

Hell has no fury like a woman scorned.

A woman who is intent on getting hold of a mans assets will find a way or a gulliable man.
That would be a very far stretch. If women were to try and get the laws to give them half of a man's assets simply because he dated them for a year it would be recognized for what it is, prostitution. Women are not entirely stupid either, they would realize that such a move would mean the end of a steady supply of free dinners and gifts. The law wouldn't get very far once men start refusing to take women out on dates and opting for one night stands as the relationship of choice. The only people fucking in the country with such a stupid law would be the lower classes. The wealthy men will travel abroad for sex and the rich girls will be relegated to fucking blue collar workers. The later is not such a bad idea. Anyway, the native born population would go into a serious decline along with society. Once civilizations start going to extremes their collapse follows rather quickly.

[Punter 127]

That would be a very far stretch. If women were to try and get the laws to give them half of a man's assets simply because he dated them for a year it would be recognized for what it is, prostitution. Women are not entirely stupid either, they would realize that such a move would mean the end of a steady supply of free dinners and gifts. The law wouldn't get very far once men start refusing to take women out on dates and opting for one night stands as the relationship of choice. The only people fucking in the country with such a stupid law would be the lower classes. The wealthy men will travel abroad for sex and the rich girls will be relegated to fucking blue collar workers. The later is not such a bad idea. Anyway, the native born population would go into a serious decline along with society. Once civilizations start going to extremes their collapse follows rather quickly.Hi CM,

I think your post is very logical, however we are talking about emotional creatures and they almost always defy logic. IMHO a lot of what you say is already happening, lots of guys won’t date AW, and they travel abroad for sex. (I’m one of them.) oh and have you heard of "palimony"?

BTW because they’re emotion driven is exactly why I will never vote for a female for political office. Again that’s just MHO.

Punter 127

[Punter 127]

Not marrying them won't help.

Women will just moan and groan until the laws get changed and you will have to split your assets after dating them for a year wether you live with or marry them or even if you don't.

Hell has no fury like a woman scorned.

A woman who is intent on getting hold of a mans assets will find a way or a gulliable man.Hi SC,

You’re right on the money, that's exactly why they are cheaper by the hour!

Punter 127

[Dodger Bulldog]

If women were to try and get the laws to give them half of a man's assets simply because he dated them for a year it would be recognized for what it is, prostitution. Women are not entirely stupid either The power of short term greed will trump long term common sense every time.

Besides, there is always a new crop of American men to lead to slaughter. They
will think that no one has ever been in love like them before.

I thought like that once, before I was burned.

Well twice, actually. I'm a slow learner...

DB

[Yogin]

What CM described is already the norm.
Palimony lawsuits have been around 30 years.
A NY high court ruled that a guy who shacked up with his GF for a couple years and then they broke up, now he must pay her child support for kids who aren't even his.
With the hold that feminists have in UK and Sweden, I doubt things are all that different.
CM: isn't marrying for money already prostitution?
Proceed with caution out there, my brothers. These are angry dangerous hostile times for men.

[Chocha Monger]

DB:

You're right about short term greed. There will always be people who prefer slaughtering the golden goose for a meal rather than being content with a golden egg laid each day. Of course, all the golden geese tell themselves that they will never become the main course at dinner because they are much more valuable laying that golden egg each day. Then one day they find the housewife looking at them with a gleam in eye and axe in hand.

Yogin:

Yes. Marriage is a state sponsored form of prostitution. In the US it is the only legitimate version of this age old activity except for the State of Nevada which allows more straightforward manners of sexual commerce.

Sweden is in an even stronger feminist strangle hold than the US. The only difference is that some of the women there realize that they can't dominate men while expecting them to pay for everything because that would be slavery.

[Sasha Coffee]

Lets face it.

The world is about to take a step back 150 years but the roles will be reversed it will be the men that end up not being able to work, vote or have any rights outside the home.

Rue the day men. The more women in politics the more likely it is to happen. Its well on the way already. Then watch the world disintergrate into the emotional prison of a womans hormones.

Stand tall and fight, burn your jockstraps. I wish you all good luck and long may the world have the sanity of males to keep our female hormones under control to some extent.

[Punter 127]

Men are already treated as second class citizens in the United States and it will continue until American men grow some balls and stand up for their rights. I have seen females in positions of power and most of them simply don’t handle it very well. Remember they only have the power we allow them to have; now they won’t like hearing that but the truth is we are still the stronger sex.

[Starchild2012]

Men are already treated as second class citizens in the United States and it will continue until American men grow some balls and stand up for their rights. I have seen females in positions of power and most of them simply don’t handle it very well. Remember they only have the power we allow them to have; now they won’t like hearing that but the truth is we are still the stronger sex.

I'm not sure about it...

Most of the women only take so called lower management jobs and done up bored work...Americans have plenty of freedom to pursue what they like...

Sergei Brin, Larry Page from Google rented their office in a garage which a women owned..

James Thomson..stem cell research guy has more than 50% of his research team as women..

In no where did the women intervene where men wanted to go..its just the two popular stories we know however, there are 1000's of venture funding in silicon valley started by Men and all doing well.

America is where most of the Alpha male strive and are born...the folks who come as immigrant in beta stage are transformed into Alpha status as soon as they come to America.

As far as making money and academic success are concerned....Its up to each man and women's own capability..


In relationship...the road is much harder in America...and it will get tougher for men everywhere....with women becoming more independent..

but if you have money and go around the world ..who cares...which government comes and goes..what policies they make to give women more right..

Money is a a great solvent man invented..its solves most of the problems

[George90]

I'm not sure about it...

..., there are 1000's of venture funding in silicon valley started by Men and all doing well.

America is where most of the Alpha male strive and are born...the folks who come as immigrant in beta stage are transformed into Alpha status as soon as they come to America.

There is a saying that necessity is the mother of invention. If that is true, why do you feel that men are starting so many new ventures in Silicon Valley? I believe that it is because the traditional corporate employer has become fearful of feminist lawsuits and is de facto hostile to men. The men who are capable, the Alpha males, have responded by leaving the corporation and starting their own ventures. It used to be that these men would invent WITHIN a corporation in its Research and Development Division and have its financial backing.

Immigrants who arrive as Betas and become Alphas do so out of necessity. There is no more room in the US for Beta males. They (we) have been displaced by women. I agree with Punter. Men in the US, especially Beta males, are second class citizens. Women and Alpha males are the first class citizens.

[Bango Cheito]

I don't see why women being independent in and of itself has to be the kiss of death for relationships. Maybe if you think that way you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and examine your OWN philosophy regarding relationships.

Look, here in NYC it would be the easiest thing in the world for me to hook up with some 20 or 30 something Bronx Dominican hood rat with a VERY traditionalist, socially conservative mentality, conditioned to being a good hausfrau, cooking, cleaning and staying home. All you need is some half-decent Spanish and a little (not tons of) money in the bank and not to look like a troglodyte and you're set.

I would want a serious relationship with one of those types of girls like I'd want a case of HIV though! Those are the MOST JEALOUS BIATCHES IN THE UNIVERSE. I have friends who married girls like that, some of them can't even so much as grab a bite to eat on the way home because they will be greeted with a jealous rage if they do so!

Bottom line, if you want a girl that is willing to have her freedom and mobility severely curtailed for the sake of the relationship, you better be prepared to have your own wings clipped too!!

[DJ FourMoney]

I don't see why women being independent in and of itself has to be the kiss of death for relationships. Maybe if you think that way you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and examine your OWN philosophy regarding relationships.

Look, here in NYC it would be the easiest thing in the world for me to hook up with some 20 or 30 something Bronx Dominican hood rat with a VERY traditionalist, socially conservative mentality, conditioned to being a good hausfrau, cooking, cleaning and staying home. All you need is some half-decent Spanish and a little (not tons of) money in the bank and not to look like a troglodyte and you're set.

I would want a serious relationship with one of those types of girls like I'd want a case of HIV though! Those are the MOST JEALOUS BIATCHES IN THE UNIVERSE. I have friends who married girls like that, some of them can't even so much as grab a bite to eat on the way home because they will be greeted with a jealous rage if they do so!

Bottom line, if you want a girl that is willing to have her freedom and mobility severely curtailed for the sake of the relationship, you better be prepared to have your own wings clipped too!!

I couldn't agree more...

[George90]

I don't see why women being independent in and of itself has to be the kiss of death for relationships. Maybe if you think that way you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and examine your OWN philosophy regarding relationships.


I couldn't agree more...

I don't know if you guys are directing your comments specifically at me, but my post did not mention relationships at all. I was speaking SOLELY about how men are treated in US society in modern days.

The degree of independence that a man may desire in his wife is an issue to be negociated between the couple. No one has the same mileage.

[Punter 127]

I don't know if you guys are directing your comments specifically at me, but my post did not mention relationships at all. I was speaking SOLELY about how men are treated in US society in modern days.
I agree with George, I don’t know who you were directing your comments too but my post was about how men are treaded in the USA .

I don't see why women being independent in and of itself has to be the kiss of death for relationships. Maybe if you think that way you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and examine your OWN philosophy regarding relationships.

I couldn't agree more...
Sounds like it came right out of a neo-feminist handbook. They have been trying to brainwash all of us into thinking this way for many years. (Seems to be working)
Again this is just IMHO.

[DJ FourMoney]

I agree with George, I don’t know who you were directing your comments too but my post was about how men are treaded in the USA .

Sounds like it came right out of a neo-feminist handbook. They have been trying to brainwash all of us into thinking this way for many years. (Seems to be working)
Again this is just IMHO.

Brainwashing?

I vividly remember a small conversation during my training driving for "The Great Pumpkin" that if you have the kind of wife that calls you for the smallest things at home and you can't handle it, maybe you should seriously think about another career choice.

I want my other half to believe she can handle things if I was away from the house or can be counted on to make important decisions without consulting me first.

I agree with George that is to be worked out before being married...

But I also agree with Bango, I don't think it was completely directed at George.

[Punter 127]

Brainwashing? .
Yes, I believe there has been a Brainwashing/Propaganda campaign by neo-feminist in the USA for years.



I vividly remember a small conversation during my training driving for "The Great Pumpkin" that if you have the kind of wife that calls you for the smallest things at home and you can't handle it, maybe you should seriously think about another career choice.

I want my other half to believe she can handle things if I was away from the house or can be counted on to make important decisions without consulting me first.

I don’t know anything about your experiences with "The Great Pumpkin", but I assume you are looking for that “other half” (are would that be the “better half” ) outside USA. I wish you luck with that, but I don’t really see what your comments have to do with AW considering….

I don't like how AW behave I am done with them, I was just making a comment.

DJ I’m not trying to bust your balls or flame an august poster such as you, I’m just stating my opinion, and believe me when it comes to AW I have graduated from the school of hard knocks. Just connect the dots AW and neo-feminist.

[Bango Cheito]

Punter, I'm just speaking from what I have seen and experienced myself, both first and second hand. My ex and I didn't work together because we didn't want the same things out of life, and because she had an entitlement mentality that was driving me crazy. But it wouldn't have been made better if she were a June Cleaver type. It woulda been even WORSE, she woulda wanted a whole bunch of expensive shit I had no intention of buying with MY hard-earned money, and the whole thing woulda been a shambles. Worse, back in the day, divorces were much less common and much harder to get, so instead of splitting up amicably we woulda been at each other's throats.

I just don't think the root of the problem is feminism. I think some people on the board (I'm not pointing fingers here nor was I in my previous post) are using feminism as a scapegoat for a general cultural malaise that's eating the whole country alive.

At any rate my current fiancee who has yet to be out of Colombia has a much more "feminist" outlook on life than does my AW ex.

[Punter 127]

Bango, I’m also just speaking from what I have seen and experienced myself. I suspect we share some similar life experiences, but came away with different conclusions.

I think the “entitlement mentality” and feminism go hand in hand.

I lived through the second and third wave of feminism in the USA and I can’t see where it has done anything but hurt men and families, it’s about power not equality, and I think most feminist are hypocrites.

As for “general cultural malaise” I think you under estimate the feminist movement, their constant belittling of men and male bashing is very much apart of that “general cultural malaise”.

I don’t know where you live or how old you are, but wave two of feminism gave us no fault divorce and it has been the law of the land since at least the 70’s in the state I live in, and it’s a very conservative red state.

I also don’t know anything about your fiancée and she may be an exception. But I have known a lot of Latino chicas, and most them haven’t got a clue what AW mean by feminism. If you ask AW and Latino chicas to define feminism I think their replies would be like night and day.

[CBGBConnisur]

Just because a woman is of a particular ethnicity(eg. Hispanic, Asian, etc) does not mean a thing because she is still influenced by the dominant culture of her surrounding society. Asian women living in America are no different than white females in between the ears. I have also met plenty of nose in air hispanic girls in the US, spend some time in South Florida, you will have no difficulty finding premadonna Latinas. Contrast this with an Eastern European woman living in her own country, on the outside she might appear to be no different than you average Anglo American female but most likely she is not.

Feminists are hypocrites, incidentally many are racist, and its been proven in the past that feminists have often used racism to further their cause, look up women's suffrage, the suffragists of those days appealed to racists.

[Punter 127]

Just because a woman is of a particular ethnicity(eg. Hispanic, Asian, etc) does not mean a thing because she is still influenced by the dominant culture of her surrounding society. Asian women living in America are no different than white females in between the ears. I have also met plenty of nose in air hispanic girls in the US, spend some time in South Florida, you will have no difficulty finding premadonna Latinas. Contrast this with an Eastern European woman living in her own country, on the outside she might appear to be no different than you average Anglo American female but most likely she is not.


I agree ethnicity means very little if they’re living in the USA. When I said "Latino chicas" I was speaking of chicas in Spanish speaking countries.

[Bango Cheito]

Not my experience at all.

I'm 34, born and raised in Canada, but now a dual citizen, living in the Bronx. Since my late teens I have never really been super-short on pussy, although the 6 years I spent in Toronto was I guess comparatively a bit of a dry spell. :P I'm not Adonis but I'm not horrid either, I guess I'm somewhere in the middle. Girls who like the way I look say I'm really good looking but that's probably because I just fall within their specific parameters IMO. And I'm not only far from rich, I'm actually a super cheap motherfucker :P I live almost like a monk!

Personally I bet if you ask two AW for their definition of feminism you will get two totally separate answers, or two LA women. Not to mention Latin America is HUGE, and you can find any subculture you like within it, just like in the USA, but if we are talking social norms, that's another thing.

I don't get why I always hear this line about girls falling all over guys in Latin America somwhere (ESPECIALLY Colombia), but they couldn't get arrested for murder by a decent looking Latina here in NYC. I have no problems hooking up with them here, as a matter of fact the p4p scene here has gotten so pathetic I'm actually considering banging one. Which shows really how bad it's gotten because I vastly prefer just paying for it and not having any issues after.

[Punter 127]

not my experience at all.

i'm 34, born and raised in canada, but now a dual citizen, living in the bronx. since my late teens i have never really been super-short on pussy, although the 6 years i spent in toronto was i guess comparatively a bit of a dry spell. :p i'm not adonis but i'm not horrid either, i guess i'm somewhere in the middle. girls who like the way i look say i'm really good looking but that's probably because i just fall within their specific parameters imo. and i'm not only far from rich, i'm actually a super cheap motherfucker :p i live almost like a monk! bango, i was wrong your life experiences and mine are totally different. i don’t mean to flame or belittle but i have over twenty years of life experiences on you, and i’m old enough to remember what life was like before "wave 2" of feminism. that doesn’t make my opinion any better than yours, just more experienced. i think in the end you and i will just have to agree to disagree, but i wonder how you will feel about aw twenty years from now. it’s not just about getting pussy; it’s about living a life of servitude to women.
nac’s (north american cunts’ ) don’t want equality they want superiority!

btw i’ve been in toronto several times and the pussy flowed pretty freely for me. (go figure.)

personally i bet if you ask two aw for their definition of feminism you will get two totally separate answers, or two la women. not to mention latin america is huge, and you can find any subculture you like within it, just like in the usa, but if we are talking social norms, that's another thing. well i’ve known chicas from at least 7 spanish speaking countries,(but not living in the usa) and going by what i hear from them they think aw are fat, stupid, sexually cold, and that aw don’t realize how good they have it.

i don't get why i always hear this line about girls falling all over guys in latin america somwhere (especially colombia), but they couldn't get arrested for murder by a decent looking latina here in nyc. i have no problems hooking up with them here, as a matter of fact the p4p scene here has gotten so pathetic i'm actually considering banging one. which shows really how bad it's gotten because i vastly prefer just paying for it and not having any issues after.you didn’t hear that from me, and of all the chicas i’ve known colombian is not on the list. (but i’ll work on it.) you speak of the p4p scene in nyc, well the last time i checked prostitution is illegal in ny, who do you think is responsible for that, men perhaps? the neo-feminist nac’s would cut your balls off and hand them to you for partaking in prostitution, if they could.

i hope you will look past your own personal experiences, and lend an ear to what others have to say, and consider the experiences of your brothers that passed before you.
you might start with this old post, i don’t agree with all of it, but its good food for thought.


dear gentlemen,

it is safe to say that the reason why most of us attend to this forum is because we want to fuck more

meat.it might be a good thing, however, what is the use of "fucking more meat" if we not also have a good

life at the same time. such as comfortable living conditions, security, peace of mind, reasonable health,

good company and control over our affairs.



travelling to far-away "****-ries" has some merits and can make us more independent from us females, we

certainly gain some freedom and immunity from manipulation by sex or the lack of it. i can testify for it

because it works. but there are various hardships on the way and the benefits are only temporary, needing

to top-up frequently. all this has made me realise that our real work is at home, in our own "****-ry",

(wherever we may live). (notice the spelling? it is no mistaik.)

to improve our conditions right here and regain control as we used to have long ago.
------------------------------------------------

the writer proposes that year 1920, the enactement of the 19th amendment to the us constitution was the end

of us democracy. for the purpose of eventually doubling the income tax-base and in an instant to create a

mindless, screaming mass of voters/consumers who can be most easily and predictably controlled by well

aimed propaganda: "american women were given voting rights and could be nominated for position in

government". thereby "real" democracy died.


**********************
appearances
**********************

this mindless mass of most easily manipulatable consumers/voters -who only care about their appearance and

the outside appearance of things- comprise at least 51% of the population. they can be most easily

hypnotised by flashing bright images in their faces, are hysterical, insecure, paranoid, emotionally

driven, unable to think logically by nature and are totally indecisive.



by appealing to this mass of "puppets", any senseless policy can be passed -by the sheer number of female

voters, (51%++) - and yet bear the sign of "democracy". even though the result is always easily

predictable. they will vote for it.



by flashing the images of "increased police, sick-care, child-welfare", no matter how stupid the general

agenda is, they will vote for it. we are not even asked because 51%++ already decides without us.

surely you will realize this. the minimum you can do is that you abstain from any voting at all. why

bother? it will make no difference at all. do they think you are stupid?

-------------------------------------------------

under this regime, by flashing selected graphic images in the faces of mindless public (51%++), all kinds

of hysterias can be created such as: aids hystery, drug hystery, cancer hystery, smoking hystery, terror

hystery, and so on.



all these, supported by the screaming masses, create absolutely huge profits to selected groups. the writer

proposes that without the "huge screaming" of the mislead masses none of these would be issues of any

importance. the writer can individually dismiss all of these artificial hysterias as "false". detailed

discursion may follow later but surely, instinctively we all know that they are false. and yet they roll in

absolutely astronomical revenues by keeping the masses of 51%++ screaming ever louder.



the writer also proposes that they are deliberately antagonising men and urge us for aggression, using open

and covert education for this purpose from a young age. purposefully creating ideals of "individual

heroes", thereby reducing our chances of ever agreeing, especially in matters concerning females.


-------------------------------------------------

even though the problems are evident the writer admits that nothing can be done against it on the short

term. most (but not all) nations of this planet run by the same "global syndicate" and the "screaming,

mindless masses of 51%+" have become the principal building pillar of global economy. as well as

representing more than 51% of voters they are the spenders, moneyspinners and even principal tax-payers.

so, reducing their influence is not a matter of great urgency anywhere. quite to the contrary, previously

cautious and conservative "****-ries" (now you know the reason for the alternative spelling) are opening up

to "women rule", in order to increase spending and spin the fast cash.

---------------------------------------------------
*********************
but why is it "bad"?
*********************

if it hasn't occured to you before then ask first: "why did a forum like this have happen?" with 150,000+

subscribers, and the multitude of other forums and the legions of sex-traveller men just like you. was that

by chance or for a reason?

under the present "regime", problems are treated the usual female way: on the surface, by scraping the top

a bit and giving it an attractive paint-job. this pleases 51%+ of (legally equal) voters and does the job

fine. however temporarily. problems resurface soon with increased ferocity and again oppressed by even

increased forces. in the meantime of course earning solid profits and comfortable living to various

industries that specialise in "fighting".

yet it still pleases at least 51%+, so no probs because the other 49% don't make any difference. plus they

are so deprived of the "object of their pleasure" that they do anything for minimal favours. in effect the

screaming, mindless 51% easily becomes 51%++++++.



in this fashion police suppresses uprisings and "irregular behaviour", bacterias and viruses are "killed",

tumors cut out, surface players of drug distribution are regularly skimmed (while demand kept all high),

police are featured as "heroes", new "magical" face creams and "no effort" weightloss programs are sold by

the truckload. looks very rosy, let's all rejoice.



new infections crop up, new tumors, masses screaming bloody murder at anyone looking different, demanding

more security cameras for "safety". and new lies. in fact we all rot in shit while looking very happy on

the surface and we are supposed to smile and cheer when the national flag is raised. we are a bunch of

mindless morons. how happy...

-----------------------------------------------------
the plain truth of today:

**************************
salivating, pumped-up "pussimen
**************************

mindless, screaming mass of "face-painting ladies" 51%+, closely followed by salivating, pumped up

"pussymen" running around in circles and screaming -"oh no, another bacteria, another deadly virus,

terrrrorists all over the place, we all gonna diiiiie now, will someone please save us, oh, oh...dear."



as you have probably figured it out by now: without screaming ladies (51%+++) and "pumped-up pussimen"

there would be no issue of virus, tumor or terror. as it was explained to you above you have no vote at all

any more. then why do you bother voting at all? and if you are not one of the "pumped-up pussymen" then

please stop the screaming about aids, terrorists, global warming and other ridiculous shit. if you cannot

live as a man then why bother. you might as well be taken by any of the above and it will be no loss at all.


*****************
not equal, by nature
*****************
wear a t-shirt or something: "i am not equal with women". refuse to vote until votes are taken away from

the "puppets". buy a ticket to phnom penh where they are still treated like common shit. you can make up

your own list. just don't believe in "magic" treatments like women do. this curse will take a long time to

go away.


---------------------------------------------------------

conclusion:
so, yes this tumor has been growing since at least 1920. possibly longer. the russians made them "equal"

first in 1918 to fully support their totalitarian system. easiest handle is where the mind is absent. the

us had no choice, but to follow course. now, being an economic "super-****-ry" the basic condition for

trading with any other ****-ry is that they liberate the shit. otherwise no deal. surely you knew all this

already just didn't know how to say it. if we were just whingeing about it to exercise our mouths then we

would be like women. the difference is that we understand and act accordingly. pointless whingeing is for

women. tell us, what is the list of things that "you" can do?


**************
stop screaming
**************
the first point on your list will be: "from today i will think, and stop screaming like ladies and

pussi-men." -you see? aids, terror and the like already disappeared.


****************
stop being a "hero"
****************
the second point:"from today i will stop fighting. especially in front of women. if we fight they just

think shit of all of us. no matter how they urge me to be violent, i will say: no to violence against men."

---------------------------------------------------------
the end

[Bango Cheito]

Well at any rate I'm out of the country in another half a year, give or take.

I always blamed the illegality of prostitution in the US to christianity, NOT feminism first.

Also, the fact that it was illegal but so BLATANTLY tolerated up through the early 90s that many local residents just got fed up and now the pendulum has swung the other way. In some areas in the Bronx is was still pretty blatant right through the late 90s. Hunts Point there used to be girls walking naked in broad daylight. And in some areas they used to break into parked cars to use them as quickie hotel rooms, sometimes leaving the car open to get rained in and leaving the used condom on the seat etc. :p

[Punter 127]

Well at any rate I'm out of the country in another half a year, give or take.

I always blamed the illegality of prostitution in the US to christianity, NOT feminism first.

Also, the fact that it was illegal but so BLATANTLY tolerated up through the early 90s that many local residents just got fed up and now the pendulum has swung the other way. In some areas in the Bronx is was still pretty blatant right through the late 90s. Hunts Point there used to be girls walking naked in broad daylight. And in some areas they used to break into parked cars to use them as quickie hotel rooms, sometimes leaving the car open to get rained in and leaving the used condom on the seat etc. :p It may have been “Blatantly tolerated” in the Bronx but that certainly shouldn’t be considered the norm for all of the country.
Why is it so many people especially those who don’t originate in the USA think NYC is indicative of the rest of the country? :confused:

Some religious groups fight against prostitution, but I think you will find many feminist especially early feminist are/were also Christians.

You really should do a little research on “women’s suffrage” and check some feminist websites for their position on prostitution.

I think you will find thinking like this;

“Nineteenth century feminists including Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Harriet Martineau and Margaret Sanger were inspired by the movement by early feminists to start looking at prostitution not viewed in the male terms but see women as victims of male society. Victorian feminists saw women in prostitution not as the horrible man-sucking vampires some Christians portrayed them to be but as victims of men’s desire to keep women oppressed. These new views lead to a growing change in the status and aggressiveness of women in the nineteenth century.”

If you find a feminist group that’s demanding women have the “ right to choose ” prostitution as a profession. Let me know I may make a contribution, it is after all her body. :rolleyes:

[Starchild2012]

I’m old enough to remember what life was like before "wave 2" of feminism. .

Man...Wave 1 has already began in Asian countries..more and more feminist are taking admiration from the feminist west and have started sort of movement in Asia.

Its better to fukc today and not wait for tommaorw :)

[Punter 127]

Man...Wave 1 has already began in Asian countries..more and more feminist are taking admiration from the feminist west and have started sort of movement in Asia.

Its better to fukc today and not wait for tommaorw :)I’m sure you’re correct, American feminist won’t be satisfied until they impose their affliction on men the world over.