American Women [Archive] - Page 8 - InternationalSexGuide

Rock Dog

08-24-04, 04:52

Just a short thought for today.

I was at the YMCA today. Just having a workout and checking out the chicks around the gym. I'm kind of picky when it comes to a womans' body. They better be in pretty good shape before I get interested, let alone turned on.

I noticed a lot of the girls seem to carry themselves a certain way. Some just walk around doing their thing. But others really strut like they are hot stuff. That's when it occurred to me. There are far too many average looking women in this country that see a supermodel every time they look in the mirror. Has anybody else noticed this, or am I the only one?

Here's the funny part. I have a woman that is unbelievably good looking. Her body is almost perfect, at least a 9.5. Long legs, perfect tits, perfect ass. She's 5'9" and 122 pounds with all-natural C cup and a nice face too. She blows these other girls right of the map in the looks department. As if that wasn't good enough, she's from overseas, so she has a better personality and attitude as well.

Here's the even funnier part. These girls at the gym usually don't give me a second glance, probably because they figure I'm not the "dream guy" they think they deserve and hope to get. Then they see me with my woman and that's when they start checking me out. All of a sudden I've got it going on. It's like having a beautiful girlfriend makes you a member of some secret club or something.

Must be tough for them when they realize the truth. THEY'RE the ones that don't have a chance with ME... not the other way 'round.

It's the moments like these that make life great :) !

Rock

GoodEnough

08-25-04, 17:34

I think what alot of you guys are saying is that women are not that different in the games they play than we are. What's the surprise? Do you really want someone who is always meek, always submissive, provides unlimited sex on demand and has no opinions of her own, no life except the role of being "your woman" and no real character? Doesn't every relationship need some edge, or some shared aspect of respect for each other as people?

it's been my experience, perhaps different from yours, that women are as confused and screwed up about what they really want as men are. On the one hand, they have no respect for spineless, begging men who fawn all over them and provide whatever they want. On the other hand, they're scared of men who are too strong because they don't want to sacrifice their own individuality.

I'm old enough to believe that the two sexes are doomed never to understand each other fully and that most of us will keep looking even if we do not know exactly what we're looking for.

Rubber Nursey

08-25-04, 17:55

Amen, GoodEnough...AMEN!

Rabo Verde

08-25-04, 18:53

Do you really want someone who is always meek, always submissive, provides unlimited sex on demand and has no opinions of her own, no life except the role of being "your woman"

Ummmm, yes.

Sinanju Master

08-25-04, 20:48

RN and GoodEnough,

I don't EVER remember saying I wanted a mindless sex slave to do my every bidding the way you're portraying. I DO however like for someone to play by the rules that they state they operate by. Do American Women do this? FUCK NO! There is a saying (this will be somewhat familiar to those of you who are ardent Star Trek followers and know of the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition) that goes like this: "Hear all, trust nothing". Yes, I trust NOTHING that escapes the lips of an American Woman because it's just so much noise pollution. In my experience, American Women speak half-truths AT BEST and outright LIES at their worst. I DON'T play games with anyone and anyone who has ever interacted with me knows that I am straight forward with them. What you see is what you get. Is that too much to ask of American Women or is this creature so lacking integrity that she should be approached with all the caution of being near a viper?

Before I formed my current opionion, I KNEW what I wanted, and still do (as opposed to your assessment of American Women) but now I realize that it can not be had HERE.

Read DEEPER, you two, before you get too comfortable banging that judgemental gavel...

GoodEnough

08-26-04, 00:30

Sinanju:

I was not making a judgment about you, but about relationships with women, I merely wanted to make the point that most women, regardless of country, are as fucked up as most men about the kind of relationship they really want in the long term. Maybe this generalization does not reflect your experience, but it sure as hell is typical of mine.

I used to think this was true only of American, or at least, only of Western women. Having now been in SE Asia for about 10 years, I am no longer sure. I've found much of the same phenomonon here.

GE

Rock Dog

08-26-04, 02:00

Good Enough,

You made an excellent point in your previous post. You said that women don't even know what they want. If this is true, how can we men possibly know what they want if they don't even know it themselves?

It's like some kind of guessing game. Do this, but don't do that. Do a little bit, but not too much. Try to be one thing, yet also be something else. No thanks, this is a losers' game.

I think Sinanju knows this well. He and I are on the same wavelength in many ways. LOVE the bit about the rules of aquisition. NEVER thought of applying them to my dealings with women. That's a stroke of genius for sure :D.

Sorry if I keep singing the same old song, but there's better women from other places. They know what they want and they don't live in a cloud of confusion like so many women here.

Rock

Sinanju Master

08-26-04, 02:30

10 years in SE Asia and you find the same phenomenon? Hmm... I'd be hard pressed to rebut your argument then.

What strikes me as odd is that because of the nature of the sexes (women possess the commodity that is in demand) women have the upper hand, but wield their power ineffectively (not knowing what they want and making the wrong choices over and over again) by NOT sticking to a plan to achieve (much less FIND OUT) what they want. As a result, when their power wanes, they bemoan their bad choices and point the finger to compensate for their now diminished man-attracting power. It seems that knowing what they want and their power advantage are inversely related as time marches on.

Maybe I'm terrible at putting myself in another's shoes, but I just find it difficult that someone doesn't know what they want even in GENERAL. At least I can formulate a plan from that and take the appropriate action to attain that goal.

Oh yeah, apologies for the previous rant before I took the time to read deeper myself...

RN, I find you have a unique perspective on this board because you occupied several points of view to contribute to these discussions (1] you're a woman; 2] you were a sex professional; 3] you heard the opinions of guys IN PERSON of what troubled them regarding relationships). I kind of feel (relatively) lately that you have a viewpoint of "suck it up and deal with it!", or "So what? Shit happens! It's how you deal with the shit when it rolls downhill". That may be so, but even though one trudges on in the face of adversity (out of necessity), it's hard to keep a warm smile when you wade through a sea of shit while trying to find a diamond.

Rubber Nursey

08-26-04, 03:34

Sinanju Master,

Ok...I'm feeling like a bit of a twit. By now you will have received my reply and you're gonna be thinking "What's this girl smoking???" - I thought you were talking about my total lack of self control in the other section until I read this comment here.

For the record, can I say that I very rarely read this section (as you can imagine, I tend to feel very small and outnumbered in this sort of conversation) and when I posted that "amen" it was the first time I'd stuck my head in for ages. I didn't read any of the posts before GoodEnough's, and I still haven't, so I don't know if the prior conversation perhaps gives my comment a different context. All I noticed was GoodEnough's second paragraph - that women are just as screwed up as men are - and I thought that his comments about what women want were right on the money. Nothing more, nothing less.

However, I would really like to talk to you about this shift in attitude you say you've noticed in me (privately if you like, so that you can be free to jump up and down and yell at me if need be! :) ) My 'role' in the Morality section is, and has always been, to defend the dignity of sex workers. That I will not apologise for. But I do try very hard to be of help in the rest of the sections, because I feel I can give men an opportunity to talk to a woman anonymously about stuff they would probably never ask in the 'real world'. I you feel that I am no longer doing that, I really do want to know about it.

Smut Villain

08-26-04, 05:14

RN,

Don't be so hard on yourself; your appearance in this forum is most welcome, for the very reasons stated by Sinanju Master. Furthermore, I applaud your cause of bringing a bit of dignity to workers in the "trade"; after all, if sex workers can hold their heads a little higher, then better service and less psychological "wear and tear" are the only logical results.

P.S. I might just take you up on that offer from the other forum ;) (ha, ha)

Rubber Nursey

08-26-04, 06:52

It's cool...I've been the only woman on this site for a very long time now and because that makes me stand out, my 'bad hair days' tend to be more noticable than other posters'. I wouldn't choose to put myself in this position if I didn't think I could handle the heat. Besides, constructive criticism is always a good thing. Keeps me on my toes. :)

And you're exactly right - I firmly believe that if you treat someone like crap long enough, they eventually start to believe that's all they are. If sex workers are treated with dignity and respect ...not necessarily respect for what they do - just everyday respect for another human being...their self esteem improves, leading to better self care, better work ethics and ultimately, better services for you guys. But that's a story for the Morality section. I shall bother the American Women boys no more with my ramblings...

Worf1972

08-26-04, 20:10

WOW thought this website was a secret or something women avoid. Well RN I have a question as the "spokewoman for working girls".........

Where is the best place to get basically " more bang for the buck ". :-)

Mystic Pimp

08-26-04, 20:27

I think we as American men are part of the problem with American women. (I can see all the gasping and shouting and hollering now.)

I think most of you agree that most men like sex. So much that we are more than willing to pay for it. Combine that with that fact that not all of us men have high standards with the women we are looking for, and pussy controls who gets some kitty on a regular basis and who doesn't.

Naturally, the hottest looking American women can make men jump through hoops for some sex. So why does the average woman, or the worse than average woman, also control the amount of sex men are getting? Because not all men have high standards (myself included).

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this recently, mostly due to the frustration of online adult ads, phone chat lines, etc.

BTW Rock Dog, nice YMCA story.

MP

Rock Dog

08-27-04, 03:49

Mystic,

You have given me the opening I've been looking for to present my latest concept. It's 100% true that women are in control the the pu$$y supply.

I look at it this way. Pu$$y is like a precious natural resource. We all need it, and there's only one place to get it. Just like any other resource, there's a supply of it, and there's a demand for it. In a free market, these forces act in concert and the price (or perceived value) of any commodity follows accordingly.

Not all markets are free though. The DeBeers cartel is a good example. They control a good chunk of the diamond supply and are able to keep prices higher than they would ever be in a free market. OPEC is another good example. By keeping a limit on oil prodection, they can keep some control over the value of a barrel of oil.

We have another OPEC right here at home. It's the Organization of Pussie's Exerting Control. Women here know they are the sole keepers of that special thing that men love so much. I think, at some level, most of them know the harder they make it to get, the more valuable it becomes. Demand is always there, supply is tight (no pun intended.... well, maybe) so the perceived value of even the most ordinary vagina is sky-high.

For evidence to support my theory, I'd look at other countries where the women grant access to this resource more freely. How far are guys willing to go for some poontang in those countries? Not very far, I'd bet. Why? Because, in those countries, sex is freely available and it's guys who make decent money who are in short supply.

How to break the power of our female OPEC? Simple, go to an alternate supplier. Give them some competition. Pay 4 play, or go get your dream girl from overseas.

Why do you think that western women don't like it when guys go to massage parlors, prostitues or get "mail-order" brides? Because it's COMPETITION, and competition is what drives down the price and breaks the power of any cartel. Even the Organization of Pussie's Exerting Control!

My thought for today,

Rock

Rubber Nursey

08-27-04, 04:55

Worf1972...How would I know??? I've never travelled and I don't pay for sex!

Smut Villain

08-27-04, 05:21

Mystic Pimp,

You actually make a damn good point; if we keep eating shit sandwiches, then where's their incentive to serve up anything else?

You know, I see the whole thing as a "catch-22" situation. Think about it- if the average "Joe" were guaranteed to get some almost anytime, anywhere, from a mate at least close to his ideal woman, then he wouldn't feel the need to lower his standards so often, right? But since that's not a realistic expectation (for most of us) he then feels he has to settle for what he can get; this makes the "average" lady even MORE attractive in his eyes, and the attractive one absolutely (socially) unbearable at times. This is caused by either (A) unrealistic expectations from women, or (B) lowered self esteem on the part of the man; which of these holds true is a matter of debate, of course.

MP, I think what you're trying to say is that if we men (as a whole) stick to our guns concerning what we realistically expect from women, then maybe we'll stop having to eat all those "shit sandwiches" once the fairer sex sees that we're no longer interested. I didn't have very much success with women until I made that change for myself, so I know it's the right frame of mind.

Jim2001

08-27-04, 05:22

Some very interesting posts on this board and I can relate to what a lot of people have written. After going through a brutal divorce where I got to deal with my attorney over several years(when children are involved, the complexity regarding custody, visitation, and support can be mind-numbing and entail all sorts of complexities, not to mention lengthy negotiations), I reach a point in my life where I needed to go through a thorough self-examination. I was in a Charles-Di type of marriage where the courtship went well but the marriage was fraught with differences, arguments, and strife. So I learned a profound lesson. Should I ever marry again, which I seriously doubt I'll ever do (I'm in my 40s), I'll look for a woman with whom I have many many similarities. Once burned, twice cautious.

One choice I have made, post-divorce, is to quit dating altogether. I'm the type of guy who likes to take things slow when it comes to romance. What irks me greatly is to be queried in detail on a first or second date about the minute, nitty-gritty details of my marital breakup. It feels like being interviewed by Internal Affairs, and you hardly know each other. One divorced mother that I met seemed to be in a mad rush to remarry and took some pride in the number of guys who pursued her and in one case, a guy who proposed to her. She's a vivacious lady in many regards and very much an extrovert. She has an excellent paying job, Macy's/Nordstrom tastes, upscale aspirations and a loving family. She went into detail right away about her breakup and expected me to follow suit. So much energy was spent on talking about past people and events that I found it a romance killer. I drew a line at going into great detail about my marital breakup, even before a first kiss. She didn't like that response and used a "catch as catch can" expression to politely blow me off. So I didn't call her anymore.

The romance game has a lot to do with negotiations and I agree with those posts that argue that it's best to stick with your standards and walk away when necessary. The funny thing nowadays is how friends sometimes make a big effort to set you up with available women. I've gone to a standard reply of thanking them for their interest but tell them, as Miss Manners advised one make writer to say, "I'm afraid that I'm a confirmed bachelor". I've used that statement many times now in telling friends that I'm not interested in romance. The reality is that there are many available women in their 30s and older who are looking but can't find any suitable men who want to date them. I can only surmise that the supply of available women who are divorced/widowed/never married and are 35 or older, let's say, is far greater than the supply of unmarried men in a similar age range.

The reason I choose not to date, at this stage of my life, is that I don't want to lead women on. In the words of singer Carly Simon, I haven't got the time, the room, or the need for the pain. There are some great women out there, including American women, but I've been unlucky in love too often to be a risker in the romance business anymore. I read a post on a Toronto message board, where one provider said that some women are paid for sex through the security of the mortgage and the kids. She said she preferred "cold hard cash". Mercenary perhaps but we guys can play by our own rules these days. If I'm looking for a 30 minute pay-for-play session in the Amsterdam RLD or a multi-hour appointment with a top-tier indie escort, I know exactly where and how to find her, through past experience, resourcefulness, backchannel/public info, and a network of friends. Dedicated hobbyists (or "mongers", as some put it) get more high-quality and high-frequency sex than many many married guys out there. Friends who think I lead a sexless existence as a proclaimed "confirmed bachelor" have no idea of the high-quality sex I enjoy on a GFE basis with certain ladies overseas.

Getting smart on this hobby isn't that difficult. It's like shooting at fish in a barrel. I overheard a guy in a restaurant recently who told his dinner companion (a platonic female friend evidently) that he'd "rather be lonely and disappointed than devastated (from the breakup of a relationship)". Those words perhaps resonate with a lot of us guys who indulge in this hobby. I've met some truly great gals via the pay-for-play route and at the same time know that it's not a path to romance. It's great sex at a fixed price. Then you go your separate ways. A guy who is not dating or married has a low overhead on many counts...no expenses for wining/dining her, no gifts, no flowers, and no commitments. The price you pay? No love life and bouts of loneliness perhaps. But you can pursue and realize a sex life that can be pretty amazing. This pursuit can be addicting so I make it a point to take sabbaticals from the hobby and continuously glean insights from friends I've made in the hobbyist community, including female providers, male hobbyists, and even couples. Should I change my mind and meet a great lady that I want to pursue romantically, I intend to quit this hobby cold-turkey and ride into the sunset, not looking back.

Cheers,

Jim

Sporadic

08-27-04, 08:21

Smut, MP, et al

Without getting into game theory, the simple problem with "raising the game" is defection. Most guys (me certainly on occasion) have been known to use the little head to do the thinking at a crucial moment.

We end up defecting on ourselves. ;)

Do "American men" have their share of blame? Sure, but let us not forget the legal system, the media, the consumer society, puritanism, Hollywood, Oprah, Phil... ad nauseum. Please, this is the 21st century, it must be someone´s fault! Class action lawsuit anyone?

Cheers,

Sporadic

Mock A Bee

08-27-04, 15:15

Not to deviate from the topic completely, but what is it with the US these days and the attitude about sexual harrassment? Before I moved from the States to live overseas (three years now) I remember the tone of pretty much most offices, except for maybe stock brokerages, is that you avoid anything to provoke a sexual harrassment issue in the office.

To wit, I would always remember to never say anything positive or negative to a female coworker out of fear that it may come off as sexual harrassment. I always felt that with so many lawsuits filed, it was so much easier to just say nothing out of fear of getting into trouble than to simply offer a genuine compliment to a fellow female coworker. Many of my male coworkers felt the same and we pretty much have never offered a nice compliment.

I think it is absolutely unconscionable that women in the US can't express their femininity and get a genuine compliment because of it. No wonder American women are all screwed up!

Now, fast forward to asia. I live in Beijing, China and sexual harrassment takes on a whole new definition. Some job ads for secretaries clearly state that the boss is looking for very specific physical measurements, age, single status, photograph, and often state outright that they he may want a little action on the side - and that this is part of the job! Many professional offices choose based on looks for the first cut, then brains and ability second. They often dont' have any brains or ability, but they get hired anyway because they are hotties. Of course there is absolutely no law against this and in fact, these jobs easily get filled because they want to advance their careers as fast as possible, and maybe even get married to the boss or taken on as his concubine which can be an extremely well paying job.

What is the difference between these women and professional sex workers?

IMHO I would say there is NO difference.

Mock A Bee

08-27-04, 15:22

Hardbarg

08-27-04, 18:47

I'm going to try 1 more time.

What makes american women a special case? America is a special case.

What makes america a special case? America is a sexual police state.

In america, the resources of the entire law enforcement, legal, and political structure is mobilized to arrest and punish men for trying to have sex. Very few other societies are like that.

The absence of non-criminal prostitution means that most american men can never take control of their own sexual lives. When, or if, you get laid is always someone else’s decision. Try to imagine waking up tomorrow, deciding you want to have sex that night, and then having it. No maybes, no begging and pleading, no having to “get lucky”. Your decision, your control. Pretty much the kind of control women have over their sex lives. They know when they're going to get laid.

No shit sandwiches, no hoops. If that girl you just have to have, that you have been making a fool of yourself over, still says no, you just smile and move on. You have an instant alternative. In fact, you’ll probably only give her 1 or 2 chances. No encouragement - adios honey. Try to imagine the end of desperation.

Now try to conceptualize a place where all of the other guys have the same option. Now none of you are desperate. That line of idiots waiting for you to get shot down just got a lot shorter. Can you feel the playing field start to level out. And when the women no longer hold all the cards, their attitudes and behavior will change.

American men are living in hell, but most don’t realize it because they’ve never seen anything else. American women are just taking what’s being handed to them. They’ve never experienced anything different either. Agressively criminalized prostitution, unique to this society, is the reason.

The social and religious environment in the us that brought this about is a topic for another discussion at another time.

Sinanju Master

08-27-04, 19:37

Hardbag,

I lived the scenario you described until I went into the military. I got my first permanent assignment overseas and went out on the town with some acquiantances two days after I arrived in country. They took me to the Red Light district in Frankfurt, and I felt like one of the kids that won a trip to Willie Wonka's Chocolate Factory. We entered a building where there were "erotic professionals" (I like to call them that out of respect for RN! LOL) standing in every door and things were slow to dawn upon me at first. As we went from door to door and floor to floor, the guys eventually told me in not so many words that it's basically a buffet: choose what you want and have at it. Imagine being able to do the "nasty" with basically any chick that satisfies your visual fancy! Ever since that day, my view of American Women has declined, steadily for the most part, steeply at some points, but it has ALWAYS been declining since that day.

I kind of had the idea that there should be some kind of organization that would enable guys to have their eyes opened the way I just mentioned, but I wouldn't recommend military service. Kind of an offshoot to the romance tours, but serving a more carnal need, if you know what I mean. If enough guys experienced this phenomenon, the groundswell effect it would create would be ENORMOUS.

Comments? Questions?

Mystic Pimp

08-27-04, 20:37

Sinanju Master:

Other than some international "sex tours" that I've seen touted online, I can't think of much else. Just hope the world doesn't criminalize sex like here in America.

Rabo Verde

08-28-04, 01:27

this says it all about american women!

kennedy smith faces [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) civil lawsuit
chicago, illinois (ap) -- a woman claims in a lawsuit that william kennedy smith sexually assaulted her in 1999, and her lawyer said thursday that she did not come forward at the time because she was intimidated by his wealth and connections.

the kennedy cousin cleared of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) charges in 1991 said his family and personal history made him a target for "outrageous" allegations. and the woman acknowledged having had a relationship with smith some months after the alleged assault.

in the lawsuit filed wednesday in cook county circuit court, 28-year-old audra soulias alleges that after a night of drinking in 1999, smith, now 43, forced her out of a cab and into his home where he sexually assaulted her. she is seeking more than $50,000 in damages.

her attorney, kevin o'reilly, said soulias was afraid to go to the police after the incident.

"she thought that dr. smith was too powerful and strong and would be able to discredit her very easily," o'reilly told the associated press. "she's young and innocent and didn't know what to do. she was afraid it would ruin her life."

o'reilly insisted the case was not about money and said the only reason she is seeking at least $50,000 is because that is the minimum amount required for a jury trial. smith said that soulias had demanded $3 million; o'reilly denied that.

in 1991, a jury in west palm beach, florida, acquitted smith of sexual assault and battery on a then 30-year-old woman he met in a nightclub. he said the sex between him and the accuser, patricia bowman, was consensual.

private investigator sought lawyer's help
soulias worked in 1999 as a personal assistant for smith at the center for international rehabilitation, a group led by smith that helps land mine victims, according to the lawsuit.

"he dragged me into his house, dragged me upstairs in his bedroom where he raped me," soulias told wbbm-tv in chicago.

o'reilly said smith left several apologetic voicemail messages after the incident, in which smith said he had a problem and needed help. he said soulias played the messages for a friend but had not kept copies.

smith, the nephew of sen. edward kennedy and of the late president kennedy, said in a statement that the allegations are false, calling them "outrageous, untrue and without merit."

"unfortunately, my family and my personal history have made me unusually vulnerable to these kinds of allegations," smith said.

o'reilly said he joined the case at the urging of private investigator paul ciolino, who was instrumental in helping a group of northwestern university journalism students free death row inmate anthony porter. ciolino secured the confession of another man.

the attorney said soulias had no boyfriends or sexual relationships before she became an employee of smith's. he described the alleged assault as "digital penetration."

she and smith later had a relationship that lasted several months, o'reilly said, but he said it amounted to further victimization.

"he had sex with her and she wasn't kicking and screaming," o'reilly said. "she had to do what he said. i wouldn't call that consensual." he said the woman's reaction was typical in cases of "acquaintance [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)."

he said soulias eventually took her story to prosecutors, who said it would be too hard to prove.

lawsuit: two women claim sexual harassment
soulias ultimately decided to file the civil lawsuit because she felt smith had engaged in a pattern of harassment, o'reilly said.

"this is not about money; this is about getting him to stop doing what he's doing," he said.

two other women filed complaints with the equal employment opportunity commission in the fall of 2003 claiming "repeated sexual harassment" and "unwanted sexual advances" by smith, according to the lawsuit.

the cir statement said the allegations stem from a "disgruntled employee who had failed to receive a promotion" who approached soulias and other former employees.

the eeoc and cir did not return messages left seeking comment.

smith is one of four children of former ambassador to ireland jean kennedy smith.

Bakuram

08-28-04, 01:54

Chuponalgas,

This is a fucked up shit...Dude, the laws here in this country are so anti-male that I almost want to puke. Look at the Kobe Bryant case. Any gold digging ***** can ruin any guy's life. I think, it is the time for american guys to stop being chumps and stand up against these B.S. before its too late..

Rabo Verde

08-28-04, 01:56

why we hate american women...

woman in kennedy smith suit says lawsuit is 'not about money'
chicago (ap) — the woman accusing william kennedy smith of sexually assaulting her five years ago says her goal is to stop his alleged behavior — not collect money.

audra soulias appears at a press conference thursday in a chicago law office.
by tim boyle, getty images

audra soulias, 28, filed a civil lawsuit against smith, 43, claiming he bought her drinks while she was celebrating her birthday in january 1999 and later took her to his house, dragged her upstairs and assaulted her.

"this is not about money. i do not wish to see one more woman victimized by this individual," soulias said at a news conference thursday. "enough is enough."

smith, who was cleared of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) charges in florida in 1991, said soulias demanded a $3 million payoff in exchange for not going to court. he said in a statement after the lawsuit was filed wednesday that "family and personal history have made me unusually vulnerable to these kinds of charges."

in a statement following his accuser's new conference, smith accused soulias' lawyer of presenting "baseless claims in the most sensationalistic manner. while i did date ms. soulias for several months in 1999, the accusations being made are absolutely false and misleading."

soulias attorney kevin o'reilly acknowledged that soulias had continued to work for smith until june 1999 and during that time had consensual sex with him on a number of occasions. he declined to comment on whether he had asked smith for $3 million before filing the lawsuit, saying he had given his word not to discuss any talks between the two sides.

o'reilly said soulias, who once worked for smith as a personal assistant, never went to the police about the alleged incident. private investigator paul ciolino, who is working for soulias, said that she told friends and others her story, but they warned her not to file a lawsuit.

"i've repeatedly been warned by everyone i've sought guidance from not to do this," soulias said. "i've been warned that i, my family and anyone affiliated with this case will be harassed, ruined and destroyed for bringing these allegations to light."

she said she would not have filed the suit had smith not telephoned her in january and left voicemails, which she believed were intimidating. she said the messages came after she told her story to an investigator who had been retained by the board of smith's center for international rehabilitation, which helps victims of land mines.

"on jan. 16, 1999, my innocence was involuntarily taken from me by someone i trusted and respected," soulias said. "it was taken from me in a manner that will haunt me to the day i die."

o'reilly described the january 1999 incident as an assault that stopped short of sexual intercourse. he said that until then soulias had lived with her family and had never had a boyfriend or any sexual experience.

in 1991, a jury in west palm beach, fla., acquitted smith of sexual assault and battery on a 30-year-old woman he met in a nightclub. he said his sexual relations with the woman, patricia bowman, had been consensual.

according to the lawsuit filed wednesday, soulias said smith called her the morning after the incident and left apologetic voicemails. soulias was accompanied at thursday's news conference by her younger sister, melissa, who said that she had heard the voicemails. o'reilly said the voicemails had not been preserved.

the lawsuit asks for at least $50,000 in damages, the minimum that such a court action must demand under illinois law.

smith's mother is former ambassador to ireland jean kennedy smith. he is the nephew of sen. edward kennedy, d-mass., and the late president kennedy.

Rock Dog

08-28-04, 05:03

Chuponalgas,

Let me see if I got this right. This happened in 1999, and NOW she wants to set things straight? She's looking for something alright and it's not justice. Money, even publicity perhaps, but definitely not justice.

Sinanju,

You are one of the "blessed few" who has experienced the awakening that comes from true sexual liberation. I know exactly where you're coming from because I've had similar experiences myself. On the plus side, we know how good things COULD be. On the down side, we're stuck living with the way things are here (for now).

Hardbag,

Dead on target! The reason why they are like this is because they control the supply. Imagine the effect if we had a couple of different options. All of a sudden these women would have to compete. All of a sudden there'd be a shift awayfrom them towards us. It wouldn't take much, a relaxation of laws against prostitution perhaps. But this will never happen because it would create competition and the women here just won't let it happen.

In a way, it seems like we are victims of our own success. Anybody with an education and a little hard work can do fairly well for themselves. So, you get a very good supply of guys who make a decent living. Guess what all of them want? That's right, a good looking woman.

The big problem is that there's no increase in the supply of good looking women that would be needed to make all those guys happy. High demand and low supply. Hell, if I was a hot babe I'd be going for the gusto myself. Why fight your way to the top when you can snag some guy who will do it for you?

Let's face facts. They have an insurmountable advantage over us. So long as men (as a group) are willing to get down on their knees and beg for sex, women will always have the upper hand.

Of course I'm saying this in terms of one group over another. On an individual level there's always exceptions. That's the key! Don't play the loser's game. Don't worry about all the chumps out there. Just take care of your own situation and go for the better deal.

A week in the DR anyone?

Rock

Hardbarg

08-28-04, 13:40

Sinanju, Mystic:

The answer is - live near the border.

Rush 2112

08-28-04, 15:20

sexual harassment, the biggest bullshit thing going.

i was a target of a sexual harassment claim made by a former co-worker last year. here's the story:

about 2 1/2 years ago, we got a transfer to the office i work in from another office of the company i work for. she seemed real nice at the beginning, but her true colors showed through soon after. she would say things that contradicted who she really was. such as: "i treat everybody with respect" or "money isn't important to me". she also had the attitude that she had a gold plated pussy, and everybody wanted her. she wasn't very pretty, imho, but still fuckable after a few beers. she would constantly make sexual innuendo, and talk about what her and her bf were doing in the bedroom.

she found out from others that our boss transferred there after getting into a relationship with a female co-worker which created a lot of problems in his previous office. that's when she targeted him as her sugar daddy. she started pushing herself on him over a period of months until he submitted to her. both of them were seeing each other behind the backs of their other lovers. things started to change around the office. there was an awful lot of favoritism being paid to her by the boss. there were payroll issues, which didn't go unnoticed by his superiors. hours were being taken away from others with more seniority and given to her. i, as the union rep., had to do everything within my power to stop all of this, while at the same time balancing the need to fairly represent her as a dues paying union member. by this time the other lovers they were with found out about them. she moved away from her bf, claiming abuse. we at the office had gotten to know him, and knew there was just no truth to it.

she then came up with the sexual harassment issue idea. she began befriending and being more flirtatious toward me. she began calling me, and showing up at my house unannounced. i just played along, and didn't fall for her crap. others in the office knew what she was trying to do. they told me not to have sex with her, because she could then claim [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123). of course, her not knowing about this hobby, thought that i evidently never have sex, and would be eager to do so with her. she would run back to the boss claiming that i was making sexual advances toward her.

things came to a head around april 2003. i used all my knowledge of our union contract to fight back strongly against her and the boss. he would call me into his office and make threats against me, blackmail is more the word for it, trying to get me to back off. i stood firm, and with the backing of the union at the state and national levels, and from the boss' own superiors who have come to hate him very much, got him to adhere to the rules. seeing that all the work she really wasn't entitled to in the first place was taken away, she abruptly quit 1 month later.

six weeks later, i get a letter from eeoc telling me that i would be interviewed by my boss and the later by an eeoc rep about alleged sexual harassment against her. the boss interviewed me, but wrote down false responses to the questions i was asked. he absolutely refused to allow me to see what i had supposedly told him. the eeoc rep, a woman, asked me very similar questions, and couldn't understand why my responses were so different than what i told the boss. that's when i gave her a letter signed by everyone else in the office (about 10 others) letting her know what had really been going on for about 15 months. she then pretty much stopped the investigation right there. a funny thing happened on the eeoc rep.'s way out the door. the boss asked her if she needed to speak to him. she loudly announced: "no i didn't come here for you."

the claim was thrown out as baseless and without merit. the other problem with the claim is that she did not have the right to even file this claim against me, because i am not her boss. if she felt she was being sexually harassed by me, she should have told the boss. it would have been his responsibility to have it stopped. that would have then put the ball in my court to file an eeoc claim against him.

it's been over a year later, and 16 months since she quit. the two of them are still out to get me.

american women, gotta love them. things will be a lot better when i get to the dr in a few weeks.

k.j. baltimonger

Wanderer1000

08-28-04, 19:04

Baltimonger -

That is a great story that clearly expresses the need for caution when dealing with American women. Many of them know the power in their hands and don't have a problem excercising it if you [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) them off or they want something and need some leverage to get it.

The equally interesting part of this story is how once again it's an American man that is a coconspirator with an American woman. American men can be so wimpy and/or sex-starved that they are easily manipulated by women. It's like a Russian guy (Lenin) that used to post on this thread had commented on Russian women - they are better in so many ways because the Russian men and the culture wouldn't tolerate a lot of crap from them. But once they come to the U.S., so many of them will turn into disasters since they see so clearly the power they now have in this country.

American men collectively are responsible for what they have allowed to happen in this culture over time. I think the best that can be hoped for is that more and more men boycott American women and go elsewhere for their female desires. I know this is a sentiment of the men in general on this board, but I don't expect things to change much in this country in my lifetime. I just consider myself lucky I can get out of this country several months a year - unfortunately, most men don't have much time to get away. If I only had a few weeks free a year, I would probably consider moving to a major city close to the border for long weekend trips, and/or seeking out foreign women that have not been in this country very long.

Mystic Pimp

08-29-04, 00:01

Hardbag:

I do live near the border (well, within driving distance).

Mystic Pimp

08-29-04, 00:06

Jak:

Most American men can't afford to get out of the USA once in a while. A lot of them are stuck with b*tches who are on them like flies on sh!t.

Wanderer1000

08-29-04, 06:09

Mystic Pimp -

I hear you - I had the good fortune to get titanium balls somewhere along the way and never fell into the marriage trap.

My best friend has the "American Dream" in living color. Actually, he gets along with his wife pretty well and has two very nice kids. He just left for a family vacation for two weeks, but after getting away with me for his first monger trip this past spring in Buenos Aires, there's no doubt how he would like to be spending his vacation time now. He had to develop a cover story to get a week free with me, and he considers himself lucky that his wife is so good that she allowed this. He's actively laying the groundwork for another week away next year (I've been trying to talk him into Rio, but he's anxious about a story good enough to cover that one).

The funny thing is how he considers himself lucky that his wife even buys a story, since he compares himself to other married guys that wouldn't have a chance to pull a trip off. It was amazing to him how many women and married guys he knows and works with were surprised that she was allowing him to go. Many women asked him point blank about what she was expecting in return for allowing him to go (for a week of guitar lessons - wink, wink).

Rock Dog

08-29-04, 06:51

Mystic,

You said this in your previous post. "Most American men can't afford to get out of the USA once in a while. A lot of them are stuck with b*tches who are on them like flies on sh!t."

If this is really true, I would say that most American men can't afford NOT to get out of the USA once in a while.

Just my own humble opinion.

Rock

Rock Dog

08-29-04, 22:08

Imagine a store that sells crappy merchandise. The service is poor, the quality is usually pretty poor and prices are way too high. They have a no-refund policy and no guarantees for anything.

Now imagine a bunch of guys that continue to shop at this store when there's 5 or 6 better ones just up the street. When you ask them why they still shop at this store, they give a bunch of excuses. It's too far, none of my friends shop there, I've never been there yet, etc, etc.

Sounds crazy right? But that's exactly what most guys here are doing when they keep trying to find a woman here. Our women are like the crappy store that I described. They won't change. So do what anyone with half a brain would do and take your business elsewhere.

Give a place with poor service a little competition and one of two things will happen. Either, they go under, or they shape up really fast and start doing a better job. This works the same way for women as well.

I really feel for guys that are married and stuck with someone already. But when I hear guys complain about the women here, then they say it's too hard for them to go get one somewhere else, I don't feel very sorry for them. I'm not gonna name any names, but you know who you are.

You can sit there and complain all you want, but if you really want to change things, you're gonna have to get off your ass. If that means taking a chance and spending some time and money, then so be it. If you want something, you're gonna have to get out there and do something to make it happen. That's the way life works.

No free rides, no second chances.

Rock

Sinanju Master

08-29-04, 23:53

Rock Dog

Everything you said is true to the letter, but the step you needed to list before "getting out there and making things happen" is to examine one's situation (refuse to accept "shit sandwiches" as the only item on the menu) get pissed at having accepted aforementioned menu item for so long and use that revelation as an impetus. There's no looking back after that...

Rubber Nursey

08-31-04, 16:33

"For there is one thing I can safely say: that those bound by love must obey each other if they are to keep company long. Love will not be constrained by mastery; when mastery comes, the God of love at once beats his wings, and farewell -- he is gone. Love is a thing as free as any spirit; women naturally desire liberty, and not to be constrained like slaves; and so do men, if I shall tell the truth".

---Chaucer
'The Franklin's Tale'

CBGBConnisur

09-02-04, 02:32

This week I got to see a direct comparison between American and Australian women in terms of their behavior. Sitting at a bar in a hotel, there was a large group of American women, they were stewardesses, and they couldn't stop bitching and complaining about things. They were also loud and obnoxious and rude. Out of boredom I tried to talk to one and she pretty much told me to get lost. Then a group of Australian stewardesses walked in, and the difference was like night and day. The Australians were upbeat, friendly, and very approachable, the American females just wanted you to fuck off.

Rock Dog

09-02-04, 04:08

CBGBConnisur,

You've definitely touched on something with your recent post. What is it with the women here anyways? So many of them have this attitude. If they give you the brush-off and act like a b*tch, it's somehow supposed to mean that they're cool or something.

On the other hand, if they open up and talk to you, that makes them a loser somehow. I just don't get it. Maybe it's because of teaching kids not to talk to strangers for the last 20 years. Now they're all grown up and it's so deeply ingrained in them that they just don't know how anymore.

Hey, I was wondering about one other thing. When you chatted up the Aussie stewardesses, were the American ones looking over to see what was going on? I hope they saw you guys having a good time! I bet, deep down inside their shriveled cold little hearts, they were jealous as hell :D!

Rock

Rubber Nursey

09-02-04, 05:58

Ok, I know I'm not an American woman and I don't usually hang out in this section any more, but...well...I was just sitting here, depressed, lonely and needing to talk to someone about how I'm feeling and then I thought, hey...I reckon the American Women guys would probably get quite a kick outta what I have to say.

So here goes...

I haven't had sex in months. Five, to be exact. I am beginning to feel old and tired and ugly and yet I know that can't be entirely true because people keep telling me otherwise. Just the other day, I told a woman I was thirty and she was shocked - she said she thought I was about 22. That made me smile for all of about, oh I don't know, a millisecond, before I looked over her shoulder and saw two teenagers pashing on the far side of the shopping centre and my heart sank again.

I just want to be touched, you know? Not necessarily sex...it's the feel of someone's flesh against my body, their hands on my skin, their lips on mine. To feel attractive and desirable and ALIVE again. You guys know what I mean?

I think some of you do...because I see some of how I'm feeling in a lot of your posts. I get angry at the guys who always seem to want someone younger or slimmer or blonder or bustier than I am. I tell myself that it's only because of my stubborn streak or my past or my sex drive or my independence...it's not my fault, it's theirs. I'm too much woman for them to handle. They are just too self-centred. Too fussy.

But that's not true...I know that. I'm just blaming them because I don't want to blame myself. And that's something I see a lot in this section of the Forum - there's a lot of talk about what's wrong with women, but not a lot of discussion about what's wrong with you guys. I'm not laying blame or casting judgement - I just know that I've been feeling lately that maybe I'm not good enough and maybe there's some reason why I'm so bad with relationships and maybe it's ALWAYS gonna be that way ...and so I blame the men instead, because to accept my own failings may mean that I have to accept being alone for the rest of my days.

I know that sounds melodramatic and when you look at it written down in front of you like I am right now, it seems childish to even think it. But rational or not, that's what creeps into my head whenever I think about the fact that nobody touches me any more. And that's why I posted this load of tripe on the board instead of just curling up alone in my bed and sulking. I'm not looking for pity or support or smartass jokes...I just wanted you guys to know that women sometimes feel angry and lost and lonely too.

Wanderer1000

09-03-04, 00:10

Hi RN -

Sorry to hear you are feeling a little down.

I think most of us guys here know there are a lot of women that have the same amount of gripes about men that we express here about women. Since most of us prefer women that are young, pretty and with "great" attitudes, I would expect that women that are getting older, and/or are overweight, and/or are not very pretty, and/or have bad attitudes/personalities to feel frustrated and angry with men.

I think it's generally accepted that this is the thread of the forum for guys to express their gripes and frustrations about American women. I think it's only natural for the same gender to gripe about what's wrong with "them" when they get together to talk (as we do here).

Although as you said, you are not an American woman (from Australia as I recall), it would be interesting to hear why an apparently attractive young woman (looks 22) would be so longing for male attention and affection. Is there some comment to made on Australian men? Something else?

Thanks - I hope tomorrow is a better day!

Sinanju Master

09-03-04, 01:04

Hi RN! you have 2 PM's rivaling a Tolstoy novel....

Mystic Pimp

09-03-04, 01:27

Does anyone here have any comments on the Kobe Bryant case?

Personally, I am glad to see the case dismissed. I never saw him spending any time in jail. However, he does get blame for putting himself in such a compromising position. 8 minutes of "consensual sex" cost him at least $16 million dollars, and maybe a lot more in endorsements. Yeah, he cheated on his wife (like he'll be the last man to ever cheat on his significant other!)

As far as the accuser goes, she kept everyone twisting in the wind for over a year, then backs out of testifying in a criminal trial? But then she files a civil suit anyway. To be nice, I'll just say she is not credible. I have other opinions of her, but I don't want to spend the next 20 minutes typing about how much women like her are the reason men have to be wary of women.

There can be blame tossed all around in this case. I have learned a few things from this. Hope I don't get in a similar situation.

MP

Sinanju Master

09-03-04, 01:54

MP

You could take a route that I saw in a Playboy cartoon where the guy had the chick sign a legal agreement before they had sex! I laffed my ass off when I saw that...

Seriously though, to paraphrase a saying: "The price of avoiding the courtroom is eternal vigilance"...

Rock Dog

09-03-04, 03:25

Ahhhh, the Kobe Bryant case.

What could I possibly have to say about that one? Not much that anyone else couldn't see after looking at it for 5 seconds. It's pretty much self-evident that the little b*tch was out to make some money right from the get-go.

Let's see, they get together and do it. Then later, after she's had some time to consider the possibilities, she decides to press charges. As soon as it looks doubtful that they'll get the guilty verdict, she bails on the whole thing. Now I hear that she's considering a civil case instead.

I'm sure many of you guys realize the difference between a civil case and a criminal one. In a criminal case the burden of proof is on the plaintiff to show that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It's the other way 'round in a civil case. That's why OJ got off in one, but got convicted in the other.

Obviously this woman knows the difference and will be looking to score big time by pushing ahead with a civil case. I bet she's gonna go for at least a 7 figure settlement. Even if she doesn't win, she'll try make as much as she can selling her story to the Enquirer, People magazine etc, as well as doing interviews.

Another good example of what our women are like here. They're always happy to fuck us, just not the way we hoped.

Rock

Rock Dog

09-03-04, 03:31

AS an short add-on to my previous post,

It just goes to show you how careful you have to be these days where women are concerned. This is even more so if you have wealth, fame or some position of power.

There's so many women out there who will try and use sex as a means of tripping you up and then taking you for as much as they can.

A wise man once said, " a woman can run faster with her skirt up than a man can with his pants down."

Rock

Rubber Nursey

09-03-04, 03:34

Jak,

I wasn't looking for sympathy, nor did I want to start a discussion about my sexlife (or lack thereof, as the case may be). And my post wasn't meant to be an attack on you guys in any way.

It was late at night and it was cold and dark and I found myself starting to think "All men are bastards... I'm better off without one" and going through all the things that men have done wrong to me in the past. And then I thought of you guys! lol

Not that I have a problem with anything you say, mind you. Like you said, this is a section specifically for whining about American women. I was here when this section was created and used to have a lot of input into it - we had heaps of fantastic discussions about relationships in general. I just thought that this section had become a little one-sided of late and that some of you guys who are hurting might feel better knowing that some of us women are hurting too.

Sinanju Master

09-03-04, 03:55

MP

a comment on the Kobe case...

Celebrities/athletes are like small fish wandering into the range of an Angler Fish (an American Woman that's looking for a big payday).

For those of you who have never seen a nature film of an Angler fish, it dangles an enticing part of its body to lure in the unsuspecting fish and then when it's in range of biting, it has its dinner. Does that sound familiar to all you out there? What makes me scratch my head is that these guys who should KNOW that they are targets STILL fall for this shit! I guess wealth and brains are an inverse rule when you're a celebrity.

Joe Zop

09-03-04, 05:02

well, i've no idea whether or not a [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) took place in kobe's hotel room, but there was a pretty public one of the accuser in this case, as far as i'm concerned. the level of incompetence demonstrated by the eagle county justice center was simply astonishing. as one columnist wrote, "who knew barney fife moved to colorado and became a judge?" let's see -- emailing closed testimony to the media, posting confidential information containing the victim's name on the website (in violation of the court's own orders) and simply letting bryant's lawyers trash the woman's reputation over (as well as use her name in open court after being directly told not to) and then admonishing the defense about violating the gag order.

notice that there was nothing damaging to kobe that was "accidentally" leaked -- ever. you didn't see a copy of kobe's interview with the sheriff -- it was someone from the defense giving their questionable "she had sex with someone else" theory. we didn't see the specifics of why he supposedly started crying if he thought the whole thing was consensual. gee, crying -- maybe's he's not emotionally stable or credible!

as far as the witness not being credible or bailing -- name me another case where three people were arrested for sending death threats to a victim. between that and being completely exposed and trashed nationally, i'm surprised she stuck it out as long as she did. i know [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) is a he-said/she-said situation, and it's one we as guys always worry about because it's not only hard to answer but hard to regain your reputation -- but if you end up with the other person's blood on your clothes (as kobe did) you've gotta at least have a sense that some force may have been involved.

but if there's one thing this whole thing proves it's that if you've got enough money and can hire enough lawyers who will do absolutely anything to win, then you will win. especially if you're up against a bunch of small-town officials who turn into bumpkins in the glare of national media.

Smut Villain

09-03-04, 05:45

**************************************************
Sinanju Master sez....

"What makes me scratch my head is that these guys who should KNOW that they are targets STILL fall for this shit!"

**************************************************

Sinanju, I believe this can be attributed to letting the wrong head do the thinking. We all do it, but the difference is that celebrities have more resources at their disposal, therefore getting more opportunities to fuck up.

This should also serve as a lesson to not get married before reaching a certain level of maturity; the females end up not knowing just what the fuck they want (besides money I guess) and guys can't seem to keep it in their pants (especially if they're getting pussy practically THROWN at them from all sides...).

Harimau Malaya

09-03-04, 10:48

Forum Members,

My opinion about women in general. "Women always want what they can't have". Usually women always want men that they can't have. It goes goes to all many other material things such as cars, home, jewelry and many other things.

If noticed all the female managers at your workplace, they will always want things done their way. It seems they are never satisfied how about how things are done. I have this ugly fat female manager at my workplace, she want guys which she can't have because she thinks she is more educated and earns more money. Usually she likes to pick on me because I am foreign person and have an "accent" (according to americans), but I never give in. Looks like I will be one day fired because I don't lick her ass, because of an AMERICAN WOMAN!

Memek Lover

CBGBConnisur

09-03-04, 14:30

99 percent of American women have a head full of bad wiring.

Sinanju Master

09-03-04, 21:58

Smut Villain,

when you said that they don't know what they want, it really struck home because a friend of mine who has been married for LESS THAN A YEAR all of a sudden is going through the early stages of divorce. SHE initiated the proceedings, the reason being: "I don't know what I want".

Actually, I saw this coming because BEFORE they got married, SHE CALLED IT OFF!! OK simmer down everyone, I'll tell you MORE, 'cos it gets BETTER!! After my bud's sweetie called it off, we (all my buds and me) went on a drinking spree! (That's the good part! LOL) During this spree, my bud absolutely VILIFIED her to the point where it surprised even ME! THEN a couple weeks later, I find out that they're getting MARRIED!! (I think Rod Serling had a hand in all this!) They get hitched and she immediately takes command of the finances. Fast forward to today and he is now in a support group for divorced people and (thankfully) seeing other women.

Rock Dog

09-04-04, 03:35

Greetings all,

You know, it's easy to say that all these women are crazy or, as CBGB put it, have a head full of bad wiring. But really, there's more to it than that.

They must be aware of what they're doing at some level. I think most of them are really selfish for sure. It also seems like most of them have some pretty unrealistic expectations. You've all heard the usual female blather about finding a soulmate who understands her, blablablah etc. There's also lot's of women out there who have a high (and unrealistic) self-opinion.

If you add these factors together, what do you get? A woman who thinks she's a lot better looking than she really is, who thinks mostly of her own happiness, and who thinks that when she meets that perfect guy he'll actually be interested in her. What you end up with is a woman who is perpetually unhappy, unsatisfied and uncertain.

How are we supposed to find happiness with one of these women when they can't even be happy with themselves?

Sinaju, all I can say about your buddy is that I feel sorry that he had to go through all that. But he should have seen it coming. Sounds like another case of hormonally-induced, temporary retardation.

Hey, you should tell him about this forum so he can get the low-down on what's what. If you haven't done so already :D.

Rock

Smut Villain

09-04-04, 08:29

SM,

Yep, it's just like I said- she's still weighing her options in the back of her mind (i.e. she believes she might have a higher market value and entertains the thought of shopping around for the better deal before she depreciates too much)

He, on the other hand, is just now realizing that he still hasn't gotten "fooling around" quite out of his system (notice that it didn't take him long to get back in the game). Your friend's lucky, though: lots of guys get married early then find out (years down the road) that the source of their personal unhappiness stems from realizing they took themselves off the market before they were actually ready (but didn't realize at that time). They cashed in before their stock matured then (much later) realized that they missed out on potential "profits".

Sorry for the financial jargon, but when you take the concept of male-female relationships and frame it in a business context, it's funny how how many simularities exist between Wall Street transactions and the male- to- female dynamic.

Rock Dog

09-04-04, 15:23

Smut Villain,

You said the following in your recent post, " when you take the concept of male-female relationships and frame it in a business context, it's funny how how many simularities exist between Wall Street transactions and the male- to- female dynamic."

Hey, it's not funny at all. In fact it makes 100% perfect sense. That's one of the basic principles underlying all human behavior. Cost vs benefit, or risk vs benefit. Nobody does or tries to do anything unless there's some benefit to motivate them. It naturally follows that the next step would be to maximize one's perceived benefit for any expended effort.

That's one of the keys to understanding female behavior. They're just like us. They want to get the best/most for whatever they have to offer. The real problem comes in when they think they have a lot more to offer than they really do (a overly-high self opinion). Combine this with the fact that most of them are kind of selfish and it's no surprise that breakups and divorces are common.

Women aren't the only ones though. It never fails to amaze me the way some guys land themselves a good looking woman with a decent personality. Then they fuck it all up because they've got this idea that they might still be able to do a little better. So they keep looking even when they should be happy with who they've got.

Will things ever change? I doubt it.

Rock

Sinanju Master

09-04-04, 21:20

SV

actually a while back, I kinda used financial metaphors to explain the situation, so, yeah, I totally understood the Wall Street jargon.

John C

09-07-04, 01:09

Rock,

You said "It never fails to amaze me the way some guys land themselves a good looking woman with a decent personality. Then they fuck it all up."

I have a theory that they're fucked either way. If the guy treats the woman well, then she will get bored and leave. If the guy plays around, then the woman will take offense and leave.

John

Rock Dog

09-07-04, 05:53

John C,

You have a good point there. You have to walk a really fine line between being too nice and being a jerk. In fact, I'd say it's more like an impossible balancing act. So yes, either way you're screwed.

Not completely screwed though. There's lot's of women out there who don't have this fucked up kind of mindset. The only real problem is, most of them live in other countries!

You want a quality pair of shoes, buy some imported ones from Italy. You want some quality wine, buy some imported wine from France. You want some quality women, import one. There's lots of good countries to choose from.

Rock

Wicked SH

09-08-04, 15:20

Ah American women. The scent of expensive perfume, the look of expensive makeup, the expensive department store clothes. All great things, but then we get the bulging asses, the attitudes, and the credit card statements.

The problem is more than simply going over seas picking out a girl and taking her home. Unfortunately America is like a virus. A very bad virus. I have a friend who picked out a Filipina. She was hot, and the stories of sex were unbelievable. He was in love. She put out, gave great head, cooked, and cleaned, everything a man wants. They had some minor problems but nothing that would disrupt the relationship. That lasted for almost two years. Then things started to happen. She started to become more demanding about things. She wanted more control of the finances. One day he bought a motorcycle that they had talked about and that is when things started to change. The next thing he was buying a diamond ring. He was planning on getting her one anyway, but she demanded one soon after the cycle. He bought her one, and that is when the relationship was hit with an atomic bomb. After he gave her the diamond she had been after since hitting the shores she didn't give a single BJ. NONE! Of coarse the man started feeling cheated and the relationship ran into one brick wall after another and within 9 months they were divorced. At first sex was close to regular for them, but week after week it diminished to the point that he only got it once a month for the last two.

This is not an isolated incidence. I have friends that have experience similar situations with women from China, Vietnam, Thailand, Eastern Europe, and Russia. If you left these girls in their home countries where the society supports marriage and respects men they would have all been good wives. Several of these guys are still married to the women and are relatively happy. But they were forced to make some pretty big compromises. Don’t think it will be easy street. The women become Americanized very quickly.

Rock Dog

09-09-04, 04:14

Wicked SH,

You've made a pretty good point with that post.

There must be other factors coming into play here though. A big one must be the kind of friends (female ones) she makes when she gets here. Another one would be how old she is when she arrives. I think the older the girl, the more deeply ingrained her cultural attitudes will be.

You could also get a bit of leverage over her by promising to bring over one or two of her close family members afterwards. It might be that they will be a good influence and keep her from "turning American".

One last thing you could do is spell it out for her in the beginning how you picked her because you don't like the crap you've been getting from your own women. Let her know, in a nice way, that acting like her new American friends is not going to lead to happiness for either of you.

At the very worst, you get a good couple of years out of the girl before things start to go south.

I also suspect that you're gonna hear about the disappointments a lot more than the success stories. It may be for every bad one, there's 3 or 4 good ones. But you never hear about it because nobody ever complains when they're happy.

Remember, it takes two to tango, if things are going wrong for these guys, it may not be 100% the girls fault in every case.

Rock

Priamos

09-09-04, 08:45

Wicked SH,

I call that the "Princess Diana Syndrome": every Prince of Wales in history has had a mistress (except for the later George III, who was mad), so it's easy to say, hey, that's how it's supposed to be - where's the problem? Well, the problem is that the Princesses of Wales of the past didn't accept their husbands' philandering because they found it OK, they did so because they had no choice. Princess Diana was the one who realised she didn't have to put up with it.

On the issue of mail order brides, etc. I would say that in today's middle class society there are only two ways you can live in a life-long relationship with a woman who is willing to do your bidding:
1) She is naturally submissive.
2) She is impressed with you and thinks you're the best husband she's likely to come across.

In poor countries you can then add a third category, since most women there are incapable of providing for themselves & divorced women are "damaged goods": voila, when one has a man, one should take good care of him.

My point is, if you're not particularly rich, beautiful or smart you're unlikely to keep a woman in a subordinate relationship, and it doesn't matter one dot if she's American, Russian or Thai. She'll look around in society, then weigh the kind of life she could have with another guy against the kind of life she has with you. If you do not come out on top of that comparison, she'll start imposing a few conditions of her own; if you don't accomodate them, she'll feel she's got a rough deal and... goodbye.

Turning the tables, American women are not adverse to dependent relationships either. If you scratch the surface, many of the rich guys' prestige wives are not particularly gold-digging in the sense that they try to lay their hands on millions of $$$. They are simply kept in the relationship by a pragmatic female assessment that they are unlikely to be this lucky twice. This basic female instinct is strong and undiluted, the only difference is, these days you don't impress a woman by having a good job at GM or a small company of your own: you gotta do better than that. Only...

...in Bangkok or Kiev you may still impress women by telling them about your house and your car. But it will not last - NOT because of the "damaging influence" of American feminists, but because they soon realise that all your colleagues and friends have big houses as well. If you're nothing special, why take any s**t from you?

No Wicked SH, if you want to be happy with a foreign girl, go live in her country.

Sinanju Master

09-09-04, 18:18

Priamos,

I was gonna say the same thing. As funny as the concert film "Raw" was, Eddie Murphy hit the nail on the head when he said that a woman born on foreign shores turns bad when she moves here and becomes "Americanized" through the busybody actions of friends that she makes.

If you marry her, keep her in HER COUNTRY and move THERE. If you cohabitate HERE in the US, DON'T get married, 'cos it'll force her to maintain her best behavior and all else that goes with it. If you are relatively well off HERE, you're Trump material THERE and she knows it. Why would she fuck up a good thing by stepping over the line? If you MUST cohabitate in the US, string her along with the "possibility" of marriage, all the while, enjoying it to the fullest and scouting out her replacement in the meantime.

Dudes, it's the CULTURE here that turns 'em bad. Keep them AWAY from it, and it should be smooth sailing.

Mystic Pimp

09-09-04, 20:46

Women in general are a "virus", from what I'm reading here. We want to bed them, but we don't want to deal with the BS that a "commitment" entails, especially here in this country.

One question I want to ask the guys in here, if you have never been married before (like myself) do you want to get married someday? Personally, I don't think I want to deal with that, I'd rather be single. If I did make another commitment to someone, whether it's just dating or marriage, I think I would have to set some terms or conditions of me getting into that commitment, and CLEARLY stating that I can get more from elsewhere if she isn't going to agree to my "demands".

I guess I feel like if I can get the "open relationship" deal, I plan on staying single for a LONG time.

MP

Sinanju Master

09-09-04, 21:45

MP,

I used to wanna get married. That was quite a while ago, though. I bought into the bullshit about falling in love, experiencing a lot of shared moments, and creating a life together. One day I woke up, put a foot in my own ass and said to myself: "Are you on CRACK"? all around me, with few exceptions, my friends and family members have failed or failing marriages and the spouses have built up animosity toward each other.

In the past, I posted a gleaming example and I'll do it again here. This is just TOO GOOD, dudes, NOT to post it again. Back in December 1995, a good friend of mine met his bride to be. In February 1996 (Valentine's Day, to be exact! Excuse me while I vomit violently!), he proposed. In MAY of 1996 he got married. DURING the wedding, I chatted with one of my bud's sisters and I made a wager with her: "I'll bet that the marriage doesn't last six months". I WON that bet. "THAT'S ALL?", I bet you're saying. No, no, Noooooooooooo! It gets BETTER! SHE files for divorce (the reason why, I forget) and she tried to get HIM to pay for debts that SHE incurred BEFORE they got married! ON TOP OF THAT, she tried to sue him to get him to pay for the removal of her breast implants. Now I know you're all gathered around the campfire, wide-eyed at my horror story, but it GETS BETTER! My bud, after going through all this bullshit, finds out that he's hubby NUMBER THREE instead of hubby NUMBER TWO!!! Many months later, after the radioactive fallout has cleared, she sends her daughter over to his house to say hello, on a thinly disguised reconnaissance mission. Her daughter had JUST begun going through puberty and she was admittedly looking ripe. She rang the doorbell and said hello. He immediately slammed the door in her face and saw the situation for what it was: the ex wanted my bud to take the bait so she could claim that he molested/acted inappropriately toward her daughter. The bad thing is, her daughter is JUST like her. Is that fucking incredible or WHAT??

My current view on marriage: Why would I want to enter into a situation where my spouse could cut off my supply of sex at the drop of a dime and I would be able to do NOTHING now that I have the noose around my neck? Why would I want to enter into a situation where my spouse would eventually have legal claim to HALF MY ASSETS while not lifting a fucking finger to earn it? (Giving sex doesn't count because at least when you're single and paying for it, you don't have to listen to any of her bullshit the next morning if you don't want to and kick her out). Marriage is a license/excuse for a woman to get lazy. After she lassoes her target, she's got him where she wants him. She slowly gains a bigger percentage claim of his assets year after weddded year, she feels she no longer has to be as nice/kind/courteous/respectful to him as often, and if she gets fat by watching Oprah and eating boxes of Whitman Samplers, SO WHAT? If the guy balks at the hippopotamus that now occupies the couch where there used to be a lean, mean sexual machine, he's accused of being shallow or selfish. How DARE he want a woman who is attractive? Add THAT to the fact that if she finds a new sausage to play with while she's still married to the poor guy she's FUCKING OVER, SHE gets alimony from ONE GUY while fucking ANOTHER and hubby can do NOTHING about it! All of this bullshit could have been prevented IF she were forced to keep up her best behavior: by NOT getting married.

The original question was: Do I want to get married? FUCK NO!

Dickhead

09-09-04, 21:50

I was married once and it was okay and it was not a bad divorce. However I would rather rip my tonsils out with a fish hook than get married again.

Sinanju Master

09-09-04, 22:25

DH,

you and RN are cut from the same cloth! I remember her saying that she'd rather gouge out her own eyes with rusty forks than to get married again.

Smut Villain

09-09-04, 22:53

Personally, I think a lot of problems with marriage in Western society can be boiled down to at least one factor: while women's roles in this society (as they relate to men) have progressed with modern times, men's roles have remained stagnant in certain areas.

For example, women (rightfully) now have the same rights as men concerning equal pay for equal work; HOWEVER, the alimony and child custody laws are strongly based upon 19th-century concepts (i.e. the man as the sole breadwinner). It's as if these modern, empowered females suddenly turn helpless after a divorce. And don't get me started about how it's always the man that has to pay for the check on dates- don't these "modern" working women have money as well (I don't mind paying for the date, I just don't want to feel OBLIGATED to do so)?

And it's not just money matters that are a bit skewed; we often hear about what the MAN'S duties should be in a marriage, but we don't hear much anymore about what duties the WOMAN should honor (and anyone bringing up the subject is immediately labeled as a chauvinist).

It's as if these women want to have all the advantages of men, but with absolutely none of the responsibilities (and they wonder why forums like this exist).

P.S. Mystic Pimp, marriage seems to me like it was pretty cool back when my parents tied the knot. But considering everything I just mentioned, I think a man would have to be a true masochist to even consider marriage these days.

Rock Dog

09-10-04, 03:16

Hey guys,

I think the laws are actually quite biased in favor of the women when it comes to family court.

They get paid about the same for their work. They get to have pretty much the same career opportunities. In fact, in so many areas, women are preferentially hired over men (eg, many sales jobs).

They get a pretty good deal once they're married as well. If they bring home 30 cents to every dollar the guy makes, it's considered a big contribution. Turn it the other way around and we get looked at like we're a freeloader!

They also get a pretty good deal if things go wrong in the marriage. I'd burn in hell before I'd give a woman 50% of my stuff just because we were married for a certain amount of time. But, when the judge is giving the order, what can you do?

As if that wasn't bad enough, it's a similar situation with custody battles. My friend got divorced and tried getting custody of his daughter. His ex-wife was not even able to hold down a job. Depended on her parents for emotional and financial support and had a history of mental problems (manic-depressive).

She had all her legal bills taken care of by legal aid, while he had to pay his own way. So basically she and her mother kept coming at him again and again because they knew he wouldn't be able to keep paying for lawyers bills forever. Eventually he had to team up with his own parents so that he could fight off the legal challenges.

I'm not sure what his alimony situation is, but I think you get the idea. Personally, if a woman makes a simialr amount of pay, she should get SFA (sweet fuck-all) if she initiates the divorce. She should also have to pay her own lawyers bills. They shouldn't be able to hit the guy with all the bills because that just encourages women to take more legal action.

I believe that a man should pay to support his kids. But, when it comes to supporting an ex-wife, there should be some kind of time limit. Otherwise, the ex will treat her alimony payments like they were some kind of rich folks welfare. I've seen so many times where these women go out with a new guy merrily fucking away with no intention of ever getting married again bc they don't want to give up their free ride.

Pre-nup. agreement anyone?

Rock

Rubber Nursey

09-10-04, 03:59

Smut Villain: I pretty much agree with you on the laws. A lot of laws are stuck somewhere in the Dark Ages, with women considered to be somehow 'lost' without a man and therefore needing compensation when he leaves. Alimony is a prime example (although the 'common people' don't really have that here - only the outrageously wealthy). There are also cases where female emancipation has caused courts to 'overcorrect' the legislation to allow for the fact that women are more employable and that society now accepts multiple marriages. In a case in WA a while back, a woman was given a reduced compensation payout (after her husband's workplace related death) because the judge considered her still attractive enough to go out and find herself another husband. http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2002/496/496p8b.htm

As far as I'm concerned, a woman deserves half the marital assets if for 20 years he has worked and she has been cooking, cleaning, raising their kids, etc - they built up those assets in partnership. But a woman who marries a rich man and then divorces him six months later? Why the hell should she be entitled to half the money he accumulated before they even met?? Or for that matter, why should a man be entitled to do the same to a rich woman?? Aside from child support - which I believe should be applied across the board - divorce entitlements should be decided on a case by case basis, not by some one-size-fits-all legislation that doesn't take individual circumstances into account.

Mystic Pimp

09-10-04, 05:04

The best way to explain the reason for my current views on dating, marriage, kids is to read my post in this section of the forum on 8/4/04.

MP

Cash Works

09-10-04, 14:49

Personally, I would only consider marriage if there were children involved. But you need to be careful about cohabitation because in most countries, at some point, even without children, "common law marriage" kicks in and even though you never stood before a preacher or a judge to get married, you are considered to be married due to length the of time you were cohabitating.

The reason I say I would consider marriage only if it involved children is based on a buddy I had at my former job. At the time, he had 2 daughters by 2 different women (I think it's 3x3 now). Anyway, he had custody of daughter #1 and was living with the mother of daughter #2. He had to jump through all sorts of hoops to prove he had custody, etc. when it came to doing the parent thing for his first daughter (like enrolling her in a private school) because he was honest and said that he wasn't married to the childs mother. Ironically, if his girlfriend brought his daughter in to enroll her in school, there were no questions asked - and she wasn't even the girls mother! He had similar problems at the hospital & doctors office with daughter #2, who had some condition like sickel cell anemia - but the girls mother (my buddies girlfriend) never had any problems there. The situation really disgusted me because of all the bad press about African American men not taking responsibility for their kids and here was an African American man who was trying to take responsibility for his kids but society didn't seem to want him to do it. I'm not sure if his problems were based on him being African American or if it was the fact that he was a man.

As to what RN said about splitting up the assets after a divorce, I've been telling people for years that both parties should have a very thourough audit on their financial situation before they tie the knot, get the report sealed and notarized or certified or whatever it needs to have done so that it can be legally used in the divorce proceedings if it turns out that way. I agree that the assets that accumulate during the marriage should be split 50/50, but whatever either party had before the marriage should remain their own. Unfortunately, to date, I don't know of anyone who has done what I advised and I know a few guys who wound up with very short marriages (less than 2 years) and wound up with less than half of what they had before they were married. I know others who were married for decades, their wives dump them and they wind up on the street with sand in their pockets. Inequality in divorce settlements is not just an American thing.

CW

Sinanju Master

09-10-04, 20:55

CW,

I knew of the "statute of limitations" (for lack of a better phrase) regarding cohabitation, BUT what I meant (and failed to mention) is cohabiting UP TO that time and then trade up. I mean, after all, who among us (those of us who have opened our eyes to the cons regarding marriage) is gonna live with a chick THAT LONG anyway? By that time, boredom or the need to change the scenery will have reared its head and we will carry out the very thing I just stated.

The premarital audit is a DAMNED GOOD IDEA.

Rock Dog

09-11-04, 00:37

Greetings to all,

Here's my thought for the day. This whole business about alimony has me really worked up and here's why. Imagine a person who works for a business for several years. They've been making some pretty good money. On top of that, they've been getting full health benefits and all kinds of perks.

Now they decide to quit because they just can't keep up with the stress of work anymore (or whatever reason). The employer offers a reasonable severance packege. They take their former employer to court and claim that, because they've gotten used to a certain lifestyle while they were employed, the employer should continue to support them with money, benefits etc.

Sounds crazy right? But this is pretty much what happens when couples get divorced these days. There should be some kind of time limit on how long the guy has to pay support for the wife after they divorce. Of course, any kids involved are a separate matter.

Here's my reasoning on this matter. This whole alimony thing was put into place to help women. But all it has done is to INCREASE the divorce rate. There's so many women out there who bail out of their marriage the second things get tough. Why? Because they know they're gonna get free money for a long time to come after that. Once they're divorced, they're reluctant to remarry because they don't want to take a chance of stopping the alimony payments. So they get money spent on them by their new boyfriend (who they will never marry) and they also get the $$$ from the ex.

If there was a time limit on how long support payments had to be made, most women would think a lot harder before they gave up on their husband. Even if they did, a time limit would also be a pretty effective incentive for them to remarry instead of sitting around on their fat lazy asses forever.

I think marriage should be a lot more like a business contract. The man and the woman work out all the details beforehand. Sort of like a pre-nup, but more extensive and not open to legal challenges afterwards. That would have the side benefit of eliminating lawyers from the process. Those greedy bastards do nothing but make divorces worse. All they ever do is get the two ex's mad at each other so that they'll dig in for a long (and profitable for the lawyer) court fight.

Kind of harsh, but that's how I feel about it.

Rock

Cash Works

09-11-04, 14:08

Sinanju,

I don't actually know what the "statute of limitations" is. I've heard different things which usually vary from 6 months to one year. Believe it or not, 6 months can go by really quick. All of a sudden, you find out that you've crossed that line - if it was me, I still wouldn't get married unless I knocked her up. But, then again, marriage does simplify a number of things in our society and I really don't like the idea of society "forcing" me to get married to "uncomplicate" these things.

Insurance policies: Medical insurance, while rediculously expensive in the USA is cheaper for a family policy than for two individual policies - I've never actually checked, but I'd be willing to bet that the insurance company wouldn't consider co-habitants to qualify for a family policy unless they were married.

Inheritance: if you want her to get anything after you die, you better have a will stating that. Most states have the assets of a dead person going to the wife, if no wife, then the children, if no children, then immediate family (parents, siblings), if no immediate family, then the state. Unless you have a will, the girlfriend gets nothing - easily, she might be able to take it to court and get something if she's been living with you, but it's not automatic. If you get the will made up & you wind up splitting up, you'd better change your will asap!

As for equality in pay - I'd actually have to admit, that in my experience, it doesn't exist in most cases. I know a lot of folks working in similar jobs and the guy usually gets paid more than the woman - sometimes it's justified, most of the time it isn't.

The guy paying the bill on a date. Yeah, I've always thought that was funny. It's basically the reason I wrote the comment "prostitution is the only honest way a man can get laid" on the "morality of prostitution" board. I've been on a few dates where the women would help out with the check, but in most cases, I'm expected to pay for everything. I've even been involved with women it the past who earned more money than I did, but they always expected me to pay.

I remember one time, I was out with this lady who I'd been sleeping with for about 2 weeks. I didn't have my credit cards with me and I was short on cash after paying for dinner, so I asked her if she would leave the tip. She gave me an exhasperated look, left the tip, insisted I drive her directly home and didn't invite me inside. The next day she called me and said she didn't want to see me anymore. Had I been paying for sex all that time? Or was it merely coincidence? She was one of the women who earned more than I did - nearly double what I earned, actually. It's not like she was being bled dry by tipping the waiter.

CW

Dickhead

09-12-04, 16:49

In the US, some states recognize common law marriage and some do not. The state I was from is fairly typical. The cohabitation has to last at least one year, and here is the key point:

The couple must represent themselves as man and wife.

So, it is not based on the mere passage of time. That is true in most states that recognize common law marriage. It is a form of estoppel: If you go around saying you are married, in order to get certain advantages such as insurance, you are later prevented from turning around and saying you are not!

So if your long-time GF starts referring to herself, to others, as your wife, you need to correct her!

Note also that in most or maybe even every state, you cannot completely disinherit your wife no matter how badly she treated you. She is entitled to a certain share in the will. Again, that share varies from state to state but half or 2/3 is common. In my ex-state in my ex-country, the share depends on how long you were married and maxes out at 2/3.

So FUCK MARRIAGE. Monger on, lads.

Joe Zop

09-12-04, 17:02

Cash Works, insurance is actually one area where the gay rights movement has changed things -- a lot of insurance companies will now cover cohabitants.

Sinanju Master

09-12-04, 19:38

DH,

I'm glad you pointed out that fact of the 1-year cohabitation. I was referring to the California model that says 7 years is considered a common law marriage. I thought most if not ALL STATES went by that model, but you gave me a MUCH NEEDED heads up. And that bullshit about even if she REFERS to the two of you being husband and wife? GEE-ZUS!

That 2/3 proportion of your assets being diverted to the soul-sucking beeyatch is total bullshit.

CW, the time limit is a brilliant idea to get them to get off their fat asses and make a life for themselves. I mean c'mon, what fucking judge in his right goddamned mind is gonna think that a woman CAN'T stand on her own two feet if she doesn't put her mind to it? Does he actually THINK that since she has become ACCUSTOMED to a certain lifestyle that she can't at least make a living that is at least comfortably above subsistence? I remember reading a short article put out by a government agency that stated that currently there are more WOMEN small busines owners than MEN. So what's the fucking justification of a man supporting a woman after the bond has been broken? NONE.

Cash Works

09-12-04, 20:08

Sinanju,

One thing you have to remember about small businesses is that a lot of them do little better than break even. It would be interesting to see the percentage of these "women owned businesses" actually make enough money to support the owner. I'm not saying that women CAN'T support themselves, just that I know of a lot of married women who "have jobs" or "run businesses", but if they were left to fend for themselves, they'd go broke PDQ. There are a lot of married women out there who work as a hobby or to keep from being bored rather than to make a living. Their husbands are the ones who support the family.

One example is a buddy of mine. Both his parents are well educated and always had professional type office jobs. His father made the bulk of the income - his mother claims that none of the jobs she had ever paid more than $30K (they both retired in the late 1980's or early 1990's). Now, $30K back then wasn't the worst salary in the world, but there's no way in hell she could have raised 4 kids in the "manner in which they were accustomed" on $30K/year. Another thing - she was never at a job long enough to earn any retirement benefits - she'd be screwed now if it weren't for her husband. The point is, she was able to get jobs that interested her without needing to be worried about what she was being paid, because hubby was earning enough to support the family at his boring, thankless job. They're still together, by the way, living off hubbies retirement income.

CW

Rock Dog

09-12-04, 20:31

Sinanju,

Actually the whole time limit thing was my idea. I got the inspiration for the idea from unemployment insurance. If the marriage isn't forever, then why should the support payments be? Even more so if the divorce proceedings are initiated by the woman.

Of course all the feminists and women's rights people will start yacking about how this would mean some women might be stuck in terrible marriages. Afraid to file for divorce because they can't do without the husband's support. But that was the whole idea behind the time limit anyways. They get out, get back on their feet or find someone else.

I figure two or three years of support payments would be a pretty generous term. Of course support payments for the kids (if any) would be a separate matter.

Rock

Sinanju Master

09-13-04, 05:40

CW, I feel that women are basically equal to men and should get off their fat lazy asses and support themselves INSTEAD of bleeding a man dry like they are so willing to do. The courts' view of women as helpless creatures who need the financial support of men is outrageous. So let me get this straight: Society says that women ae EQUAL to men BUT when they split up, MEN have to keep SUPPORTING someone who is EQUAL to her spouse? Give me a fucking break! Why don't the courts just admit that they want to fuck men in the ass for the perceived injustices against women for the last 5 millenia?

Oh yeah, I was listening to a song that I heard back in the EARLY days of MTV that runs along the thought train of this board. I hope Jackson allows it to be posted. Here it is, for those of you who know of the Canadian band named Triumph.

SAY GOODBYE

Got a lot on my mind I want to tell you
I don't know where to start
You're gettin' way outta line I want to tell you
You're actin' too damn smart
This little game you're playin'
Has lost its fun somehow
You had me goin' but I figured it out
An' I'm not playin', I'm not playin' now
CHORUS:
Say goodbye, I'll be leavin' in the mornin'
Nothin' you can do to make me stay
Say goodbye, I'll be leavin' in the mornin'
Say goodbye, it's the only thing to say
Then I'll be on my way
Little girl, dressed to kill
I see through your disguise
You wanna be big time but you never will
Cuz I see through all your lies
You say you're somethin' special
Well you talk a real good game
But now the party's over
An' you just don't sound
You just don't sound the same
CHORUS
Don't say you love me
Don't say you need me
CHORUS

Long Stroker

09-13-04, 20:44

Did you guys see this? A guy climbed the wall at Buckingham Palace to protest a court decision keeping him from seeing his kids. Apparently his wife has kept him from seeing his two kids for four years! Looks like the women have all the rights in British court, just like in the U.S.

LS

I'll admit, judging from his costume, he looks a little kooky, but I believe his cause is valid.

Mystic Pimp

09-13-04, 20:45

The only way to start making changes in the problems of marriage is to change the culture. To all you men out there, if you have friends out there who are unfortunate enough to decide they want to get married, you should preach against marriage and lay out all the factual lowlights and pitfills, if only to give the guy some doubt. If he marries anyway, he deserves whatever happens to him. If any man under 30 came to me telling me they want to get married, I would preach against it till the bitter end. So far every couple that I've known where one or both parties is under 30 have gotten married, they all ended up getting divorced.

Sinanju Master

09-13-04, 20:58

MP,

my bud, who got divorced from his conniving ex-wife got married AGAIN!! This broad earns more than him, yet when they were dating, she expected HIM to pay for everything even though the poor guy was paying child support for TWO kids! She also expected a wedding ring that had to be AT LEAST ONE KARAT! She also disagreed with the choice of location where they currenty live. She feels ther area isn't as safe as where she used to live. Actually, where they live is somewhat upscale. Also, it's been 5 months since I or any of our other friends have visited this guy, since she has effectively strangled his social life. You're right though; he deserves any Hell that he's gonna catch, because I told him that this doesn't feel right (all the aforementioned red flags). I'm several years older than he, but when walking down the street, people guess that HE is older, because Life is just sucking him dry...

Rock Dog

09-14-04, 02:33

Greetings all,

Here's a link to an interesting article. I had mentioned in an earlier post how divorce lawyers on both sides like get their clients (suckers?) worked up and ready to dig in for a hard fight.

It seems there is another alternative called divorce mediation. Choosing this option has several benefits, one of them being that lawyers are partly cut out of the deal. There's only one instead of two. If anyone wants to find out a little bit more, here's the link.

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/divorce/mediat.html

If your marriage has gone south, just tell your future ex-wife that you want to do things this way because it will save you both a lot of money on lawyers' bills. Who knows, she may actually go for it and you're less likey to get ANALysed in court.

FYI

Rock

Rock Dog

09-14-04, 02:50

Sinanju,

Those lyrics you posted were pretty good. There was another Canadian band called Trooper that came out with a pretty good song way back when. It was called 3 dressed up as a 9. It's about ho-hum looking women who think they're the shit, even when nobody else does. It goes like this;

Hey wait a minute who do you think you are?
Coming on coming on like you're some kind of movie star
Wearing twelve hundred dollars, decollettay
You looked a whole lot better to me from 20 feet away

You're just a three dressed up as a nine
You're only wasting my time
A three dressed up as a nine
Hey hey hey hey hey
Hey hey hey hey hey

And socially, you know you fit in just right
But as for me, I'm gonna have to pass tonight
Well you can say what you like; be what you wanna be
You can suit yourself baby but you can't suit me

repeat first verse....
repeat last 2 lines of 2nd verse

Hey wait a minute hey wait a minute
Hey wait a minute who do you think you are?
You're nothin' but a 3 dressed up as a 9

Man, they could never come out with a song like that these days. All the women's groups would be having a fit. Oh, wait a sec, I forgot about rap (b*tches, ho's etc.). I guess they probably could after all :).

Rock

Mystic Pimp

09-14-04, 05:40

Feminazis rejoice! It seems your supreme leader, Oprah, had a few million to throw away, so this is how she rewarded some of her loyal subjects:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040913/en_afp/us_media_oprah_people_040913215238&e=2

Sinanju Master

09-14-04, 10:33

MP, I saw that broadcast and was genuinely shocked. I don't begrudge anyone getting a new car, but it's kinda like you said: rewarding her loyal subjects. I wanted to also see that guy who sneaked onto the grounds of Buckingham Palace, but I missed it.

Rock Dog

09-15-04, 03:58

Mystic,

As a fellow Oprah hater I read your post with great interest. I immediately check out the story to see what was going on. It turns out that she DIDN'T spend a nickle of her own money on that whole deal.

Pontiac wanted to market the new Grand Am G6 to female buyers. They figured a good way to get some big publicity was to do the giveaway thing on Oprah's show.

She gets to look like Miss generosity and it didn't cost her a dime, pretty smart. I also find it interesting that Pontiac, by their choice, has implicitly acknowleged the extent of Winfrey's influence on women by going along with her on the giveaway.

Anybody ever look at who's in the audience on that show? Lot's and lot's of women, and a few of the most pussified men you've ever seen.

Rock

Mystic Pimp

09-15-04, 20:28

As far as Oprah goes, I noticed a picture on the front page of Tuesday's USA Today, and Oprah was one of the skinniest people in the pic. What does that tell you?

BTW this leads me to a question, who in America is the biggest negative influence on women? What I mean is, people that give the kind of enpowerment to the kind of women that we bash consistently in this forum.

Rock Dog

09-16-04, 05:28

Mystic,

You raised a pretty good point there. Personally, I don't think it's a matter of who is a negative influence, but what. By "empowerment", I'm assuming you mean the way they think that they can realistically fulfill all of their expectations.

One obvious thing to look at is the high standard of living that we have here. Another is the fact that women can get educated fairly easily and then go out and get a decent job if they want. Womens' rights don't exactly help a lot either.

Any time a bunch of women decide to get together and lobby about something in todays politically correct climate, we all bend over and give them whatever they're whining about. I know this is gonna sound like I'm a caveman here, but I think we really f****d up big-time when we allowed them to vote in the early 1900's.

Just look what happened soon after that. I'm pretty sure that prohibition must have been something that a bunch of women dreamt up. Most of the laws against prostitution date back to around then as well. Guess the ladies didn't like the idea of competing against someone younger, prettier and less expensive.

Take a look at some other countries where things are different. There's usually a lower standard of living. Also there still tends to be a male-dominated culture, and there's no such thing as political correctness. In these countries, women are still women and men are still men.

I don't think there's any chance we'll ever get back to the good old days unless some sort of major social upheaval occurs. My advice is to look our for yourself. Let somebody else waste their time and their life on these women. Go get yourself a good one from somewhere else.

I bet if enough guys started doing this, the women would all get together and lobby against it because they know they wouldn't stand a chance.

Rock

Sporadic

09-16-04, 11:52

Oprah and Pontiac:

Stated value, 7 million US. Cost to Pontiac, probably 85% of that, 5,95 million. How much would they have had to spend on a nation-wide ad campaign to get that kind of exposure?

The General is just not that stupid. Oprah gets another ego injection (and publicity) and Pontiac gets direct marketing and endorsement in front of "American women" from the queen of "you deserve everything" herself.

Pretty slick actually.

Cheers,

Sporadic

Sinanju Master

09-16-04, 19:50

This is a quote by CashWorks in another board and hits the fucking nail on the head! It further reinforces the fact that when women speak of "reciprocation", they mean "YOU give to ME and I'll THINK (translation: the thought will pass my mind quicker than a politician covering his ass) about returning the favor.

"Prostitution is the only honest way to get laid". In our society and in most countries around the world that I've had the opportunity to visit, whether it's a clear cut case of P4P or a "normal" relationship (theoretically not P4P), the man is expected to pay - the difference between the two is that Prostitution is brutally honest - "you pay me $$ & I provide the following services", where the "normal" relationship has no clearly defined rewards - many women will tease you along with promises of sexual favors that may or may not be delivered - it's virtually guaranteed, however that you won't get laid if you don't spend any money on her or do loads of favors, etc.

PS

CW, I hope you didn't mind my using your quote

Rock Dog

09-17-04, 00:59

Guys,

I just read the latest posts regarding womens' use of the "carrot and stick" approach when it comes to sex. Couldn't agree more!

I call this type of woman a "soft" prostitute. The thing that makes her a prostitute in my mind is that she's only doing it with you because she's received something beforehand. Without time effort and money from our end, we get nada.

I use the term "soft" because, unlike a "hard" prostitute, these women don't take the reward for their services right there and then. The connection btw reward and service may be less direct, but it's still there. Maybe it's a nice dinner, some clothes, jewelry or even a trip, but we still have to pay them (in some form) or they'll move on to the next guy without hesitation.

Contrast this to the attitudes of women from other countries. In Cuba, I got laid, no questions asked. I paid the girl after with whatever I thought was fair and they were happy to have things that way.

There was another lovely (non-pro) that I'd visited for a couple of weeks. We must have done it twice a day every day I was there. I talked to her on the phone and told her I was only like that because I knew we didn't have a lot of time together. So, I wanted to reassure her that I didn't want be pushy or demanding. Her response? "Oh no, that's fine" she said, " I give you as much as you need, I don't want you to have to go to someone else."

Can anyone imagine getting that kind of answer from any women around here? No? I didn't think so either. Our women don't like to think of themselves as wh***s, but they sure do know how to operate like one.

Rock

GettingTang

09-18-04, 02:33

Women's movement will spit in your face for the statement below.

Liberals despise it

Most women will never admit it, but know it's true.

Girlie men will disagree

"THE GREATEST GIFT A WOMAN CAN GIVE TO HER MAN, IS TO BE SUBMISSIVE!"

Now I'm not talking an all out stepping on, or pushed around, or controled, or abused, so don't go there. I'm talking, most men, instinctively will be far more attracted to a women, who truly aims to please, by fully allowing herself to be "taken" sexually. She is far more attractive when she is passive in this regard.

Now I know many of you here will put words in my mouth and run away with this. But facts of biology are not to be argued with and if you're honest with your inner self, you'll know it to be true.

We all prefer a women who would allow us to sexually be dominate and take control. Women instinctively find this attractive too. This is how we are naturally, it's just the modern world that has changed it.

Tang~!

PS. This is why so many of us venture to Thailand. It's like going back in time 300 years. For the most part, Thai women accept this and play the role!

Rock Dog

09-18-04, 03:48

GT,

They don't even have to be that submissive. All they have to do is act according to their natural gender role and everyone will get along just fine.

That's the big problem for us here. Women no longer conform ( or want to) to their traditional gender roles. Because of this, there is what I call a "behavioral void". They know what they don't want to be (traditional and submissive), But they don't know what they DO want to be. So all they end up doing is trying to imitate us by chasing careers, trying to be assertive etc.

This absence of a well-defined gender role for women has left them without direction, confused, uncertain and insecure with regards to their place in society, their sexuality and their interactions with men.

Some idiots think we go to places like Thailand because we're such losers that we can't get laid any other way. They say it's because we're old, out of shape and have terrible personalities. They say the only way we can get women who will put up with our crap is to go get them in 3rd world countries.

They're a bunch of pussified (pacified?) idiots. I say we go to other countries not because we can't get women here, but because we want someone better than we could ever find here.

Women are women and men are men. There's a difference, it will never change. Anyone who can't figure that one out is gonna be unhappy until they do.

Rock

Dickhead

09-18-04, 07:10

Cash Works' last post reminds me of a former amigovia here in Buenos Aires. She knew I was a total dog so she told me she was going to fuck me twice a day so I would not have any energy for anyone else. This was when I was there for a 6 day visit. She fucked me twice a day every day but one and I still nailed 4 other chicas.

Later after the thrill was gone between us we ended up living together in an arrangement mostly of convenience. When I wanted to see another gal, I would just tell her she needed to leave by X o'clock and not come back until Y o'clock. Granted I was to an extent taking advantage of her lack of alternatives, but try that with an American woman and see how long it lasts. BTW she and I are still good friends.

American women don't understand men the way Latina women do, and they are not realistic. A woman here once told me that Argentinean women know they need to satisfy their man, or else the neighbor will, or else he will run straight to the nearest w h o r e house. Of course actually, even men here who are quite satisfied with their wives still visit prostitutes on their lunch hours but they are considerate enough to do it in far away neighborhoods so as not to cause the wife a loss of face.

Cash Works

09-18-04, 14:35

Tang,

As usual, I disagree - and I don't think anyone in their right mind would accuse me of being a "girlie man". I have to admit though, there may be a little truth to what you say though.

While it may be nice from time to time to have a totally submissive woman share the bed, I tend to enjoy women who are at least a little agressive - it's rather enjoyable to have a woman initiate sex. I also enjoy cowgirl (woman on top - not a submissive position). Some of us prefer Brasil over Thailand - Brasillian women are less submissive than their Thai sisters. I enjoy both places for different reasons, but I'm currently leaning more towards Brasil.

In general, though, my ideal woman is one who is able to fend for herself - don't really want a woman who is totally dependent upon me. After all, if she doesn't "NEED" you, but she stays with you, it means that she actually WANTS you. So far, I haven't found her, so I monger on.

If you read on, you'll probably come to the conclusion that I'm "conflicted". You may be right, I don't believe in monogamy and the only women I've come across who would accept a guy fooling around on them would be easily classified as "submissive".

Dickhead,

Sounds like you had an excellent arrangement in Argentina. I had a girlfriend in Brasil a number of years ago who would actually get mad at me if I didn't fool around - but if I did fool around and she caught me she got even more angry - eventually, I had to dump the psycho b***h. I'm pretty sure she didn't really care one way or the other, just liked to have arguments so we could then have (very passionate) "make-up" sex - after all, that's how they do it in the novellas & she was definitely a certifiable novella addict.

I think American women do understand us. They just don't accept us as we are - they want to change us, mold us into what they think we should be. Every girlfriend I've ever had in the USA has stated at the beginning of the relationship that the reason she was attracted to me was because I was so different from all the other guys she knows. At the end of the relationship, when they finally get fed up with me, they would say it's because I refuse to change the way I am! WTF? She likes me because I don't conform to the American Ideal, but then she's pissed off because I don't conform the the American Ideal!

Monogamy is not a natural condition. There are all sorts of "morality" laws on the books labelled as "crimes against nature". I say that monogamy is the only crime against nature. Mammals don't practice it - all male mammals will have multiple female mates - females also fool around, but to a lesser extent. I could site examples of all kinds of stuff I've seen or heard of animals doing (I had a friend who worked summers on a pig farm in college, I used to come across heards of cattle and horses in Texas with one of my summer jobs in college), but I really don't think this is the appropriate place.

CW

Rock Dog

09-19-04, 17:06

Hey guys,

Was reading some posts by RN over in the morality forum. As usual, they are well-written, clever, clear and to the point. In one of her posts she said something that was very relevant to this forum.
Here it is;

"In a sex industry transaction, I know exactly where I stand. I know what to expect from him and exactly what is expected of me. Out in the real world, I'm a bit lost. There is flirting and innuendo and no clear ground rules. Too much room for misinterpretation. Too much dancing around the subject."

There you have it! In just a few simple sentences, she has laid out one of the primary reasons why most of us are here. What's more, this was written by a woman. So it's not just us, many of them must be feeling the same way as well.

Rock

GettingTang

09-20-04, 18:53

Rock Dog,

I could not agree more, great post. I knew some people in here would take my last post out of context.

I'm not just talking a sexual position here. I'm talking about women not knowing their roles any longer and trying to become drill sergeants in the marine core and applying this to everyday life.

Women, instinctively make themselves more attractive to MOST men when they are meek, somewhat passive and perhaps a touch of shyness to them. Sure all of us like a dominant women from time to time, but most males, prefer there woman to be somewhat submissive and accommodating, rather then in your face, dominating, masculine wannabe-men.

I agree fully, that we travel to places like Thailand, because it is like stepping back in time. Women there, for the most part, are like women have been throughout most of history until the recent western world told them to be something else.

I for one, am fully capable of getting any woman here in the USA, but I'm not attracted to most women in the USA, They have gone way too far, I find many to be vulgar and obnoxious.

There is a reason why sooooooooooooo many US and western males are going overseas to find brides, it's not because they are all fat and ugly, true some are, but most are looking for a woman, who acts like a woman.

If every American male, knew 100% just how well the average Asian woman, treats her "man" this would force American Women to either change, or stay single for life. The problem is, most American men, do not know what they are missing, having never sampled just how great Asian woman can be. Totally accomodating and supportive! American women are full of envy, haste, confrontational, demanding, spoiled, gold diggers, whiny, and on and on, all of these qualities are NEVER seen in most Asian cultures!

Tang~!

Smut Villain

09-20-04, 21:14

GettingTang, Rock Dog:

I think you guys nailed it. It's as if women don't know how to be women anymore, at least in Western culture anyway. Maybe that's why I've always been attracted to Latinas raised in a traditional culture; they're not so busy trying to wear the pants in a relationship.

If I wanted to date someone more masculine than me, I'd just become a homosexual.

Mike12

09-21-04, 08:38

Was in the airport in Sao Paolo for a connecting flight to NYC. Standing in line noticed, or rather heard a Jennifer Aniston type with boyfriend walking around looking for the NY flight. When they were close I volunteered that this was the line for JFK/NYC. This broad looks at me like I have 2 heads, and i'm wearing an Armani suit, and gives me the drawn out ooook with wrinkled nose look. Boarded the plane and sat next to a real plain jane Brasileira you wouldn't look twice at. This girl 36 was so nice, sweet, and feminine I regret that I didn't get her number to stay in contact. Would love to go out with her just on her personality and not because of her looks. Also the hot duty-free shop girls are cool to take pictures of and talk with.

CBGBConnisur

09-22-04, 16:43

A Jennifer Aniston type AW disrespected you? What else is new??? Most of the AW population is like that.

Long Stroker

09-23-04, 03:43

Smut Villain, GettingTang, Rock Dog:

Reading your posts of late reminds me of a book that caused quite a stir when it was published back in 2001. Forgive me if it's already been mentioned on this board. "The Surrendered Wife: A Practical Guide to Finding Intimacy, Passion, and Peace with Your Man" by Laura Doyle directly addresses the themes you guys have been discussing here recently.

Drawing from her own experiences, the author discovered that "when she criticized, nagged and tried to control her husband, the marriage suffered; but when she 'surrendered,' letting him do things his way and make decisions for the family, he rose to the occasion, becoming a responsible and loving husband and making her feel protected and cared for."

(Hmmmm..... rediscovering of gender roles, perhaps?)

Of course she was viciously attacked by the feminists and accused of setting the women's right's movement back 50 years.

LS

Smut Villan quote:

"If I wanted to date someone more masculine than me, I'd just become a homosexual."

That's classic, man! I loved it. So true.

Explorer1

09-23-04, 16:38

I agree with you fellas 100%. A large majority of women have forgotten how to be women. I'm a 35 y/o single Black male. I've found out most suffer from DICK envy. They eventually chase off the real men because of their unnatural need to compete with them.

Explorer1

09-23-04, 16:39

Worf1972

09-25-04, 00:06

BACK to the truth about Oprah's free car giveaway.

About 10 women have returned the cars, after receiving a $7145.00 bill of federal and state sale taxes on their cars. Also not included is the needed $2000.00 to $4000.00 in yearly car insurance.

These women were on the show because of letters sent in about not being capable of getting a car. They only got a 75% discount on a new automobile.

Well I guess it's better then nothing?

Mike12

09-25-04, 11:22

NY Daily News puts Cynthia Nixon of Sex and the City on full blast as switching sides and having a lesbian relationship after leaving her ex and their 2 kids. Front page. Not even an expose, just like a normal in your face type article. It's the In Thing you know.

On the subway recently spotted a hot looking Jada Pinkett type with a message on her t-shirt. Upon closer inspection observed it to read "It's not easy being queer". Yeah right. I need to get a shirt that says "It's not easy being straight". That would not only be the truth but am sure I would get hated on too.

Vaquero

09-26-04, 05:14

Well, I'd say American women abhor whoring because they feel their captive market on pussy is being threatened.

Sometimes in life, I've agreed with y'all, that foreign women exude more sensuality and more truly appreciate sex. On the flip side, many come from countries in which they lack even the most basic rights. So pleasing their man is more easily seen as economic survival.

I'm sure that once the honeymoon is over, and the foreign women realize all that they're entitled to in this country, many of them, too, will treat pleasing their man like milking a goat.

CBGBConnisur

09-27-04, 01:21

I am so glad I don't have to put up with the bullshit of American women.

GettingTang

09-27-04, 02:36

I for one am so damn sick of all the in your face gay shit in this country right now.

If you want to pack fudge, die at age 39 and be miserable, go for it. Among the gay community they have coming out parties now, for those who purposely get Aids and did so for the fun of it! Sickening. These people are twisted, sick in the head and just plain NOT NORMAL!

Americans truly do not give a fukin shit about your butt ramming ways, and flaming off the wall ideology. WE ARE SICKOF IT!

If your fricken gay and want to have one mate for life of 6000 (like most of the males do) then do so, its a free country, but don't shove it in my face or my children's face!

Tang ~!

CBGBConnisur

09-27-04, 02:58

I think homosexuals and feminists are in cahoots, there is a trio of bad influences ruining America. The queers and the feminazis are two of them.

Rush 2112

09-27-04, 03:17

In the words of Andrew "Dice" Clay:
Gays want their rights, I'll give them their rights. 10% off Vaseline, now get the fuck back in the closet.

Joe Zop

09-27-04, 03:57

Kindly don't go including me in your "American" category of gay-bashing. I'm American and I don't give a damn who anybody sleeps with beyond being concerned if someone I want isn't interested in sleeping with me. Since I'm not gay, that leaves out that 10% or so of the population, and I could care less who they all sleep with.

It is, to say the very least, highly ironic and absurd for someone on a monger board make negative comments about how many people anybody sleeps with.

Opebo

09-27-04, 04:22

Great point Joe Zop, nothing more absurd than a moralizing monger. You'ld think we of all people would be tolerant. We're one of the most persecuted minorities, and I feel pretty sympathetic to the others, including gays.

Rush 2112

09-27-04, 04:44

JZ,
The issue isn't who, or with how many partners anybody sleeps with. Rather it has become the homosexualizing and pussification of American culture. I went clothes shopping recently, and came home empty-handed. all of the clothes I saw were, IMHO, in conflict with my masculinity. I guess the Salvation Army and Goodwill are my only options.

Frankly, I couldn't care less who's cornholeing whom. That's none of my business if it's behind closed doors and out of my face. 10 percent of men in this country shouldn't have the right to determine how the other 90 percent should act, dress, have sex, etc. Unfortunately, those 10% and feminists are on the air mid-afternoon, when so many women are watching this inflammatory and inciteful garbage.

In 38 hours from now, I should be in the Dominican Republic. I will be basking in the glow of the un-American-ness of the female population. I believe it will be an amazing culture shock. I shall enjoy!

I'm not a gay basher. I do however believe that gays shouldn't have the right to throw their lifestyle in our faces. They can be gay all they want, as long as they aren't gay around me.

K.J. Baltimonger

Rubber Nursey

09-27-04, 05:58

I'm gonna stick my head in and say that you guys are having the same trouble with clothing targetted at gay men, that we women have with clothing targetted at 16 year old girls. The fashion houses, wholesalers, etc are filling the shelves with the clothes that will make them the most money. In women's clothing, the target demographic seems to be 16 year olds who are victims to changing fashion trends and not afraid to spend the big bucks on it. Gay men (generalising here, of course) are exactly the same. Unfortunately that leaves straight men wandering the shops in desperation - but that's what older and/or heavier women have been doing for years!

Joe Zop

09-27-04, 06:21

I don't have a problem with any particular nationality "throwing their lifestyle" in my face, so why should it be any different with gay culture? If I don't wanna listen to hip-hop or gangsta rap or salsa or whatever, I can change the channel. Same with show tunes. If I feel people are trying to sell me clothes that conflict with my masculinity, then I can shop elsewhere. There are plenty of places.

Yes, 10% shouldn't determine what 90% wear or do. Neither should 90% determine what that 10% wear or do. Let's see, they can be gay as long as they're not gay around you -- should they like, ask permission around people to see if it's ok to be themselves? Does this mean you should do the same lest you offend them with your "straight" lifestyle?

You want to be able to do whatever you please whenever you please, but others shouldn't have the same right. Does that mean we should get to veto, say, any expression of Asian culture in the US? Or perhaps we should ban all pow-wows. After all, Asians and Native Americans combined make up a smaller portion of the overall population than do gays. Maybe we should make sure that Madonna, Bette Midler, etc never get played on the radio again, since after all they started out in gay clubs. Omygod -- we'd better get rid of all those songs like "We Will Rock You" from Queen, since after all , what the heck did than name signify? Tell me, where do we draw the line, exactly? It's simply a baloney argument.

Voting for fashion or culture or whatever with your pocketbook is and always has been highly effective. Retailers don't give a damn about anything other than sales. As that notorious gay Oscar Wilde once said, "Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months." If it doesn't sell, it goes away. You're heading to the DR so you're voting for the behavior you like from women. That's the way the free market works.

If you don't want to be part of the pussification of American culture then don't be a pussy. Simple as that. Your extremely wise comment in the AIDS section regarding ultimate responsibility is also applicable here.

Rabo Verde

09-27-04, 06:43

Hey the more gays there are, the more women left over for US!!!!

Dickhead

09-27-04, 16:10

I personally am a total pussy. Hey, you are what you eat!

Rubber Nursey

09-27-04, 16:12

i have a real problem with people who engage in 'deviant' behaviour, bawling out others for their 'deviant' behaviour. a while back, my state attempted gay and lesbian law reform at the same time as prostitution law reform. sex worker activists and glbt activists joined forces to create a very powerful lobby group with one common goal - to keep the government out of our bedrooms.

people out there in the real world think we (hookers and mongers) are sick f*cks who engage in filthy, immoral behaviour. police put us in jail for what we do. governments create laws to protect 'good' people from what we do. religious groups condemn us to hell for what we do. all these things happen to gay men as well and for the same reasons.

we are marginalised by society for no other reason than our sexual attitudes and preferences. we should be celebrating the fact that the gay and lesbian community have come so far in their fight for equality! they've managed to show governments all over the world that nobody should have the right to punish us for what we do in our own bedrooms - and that sets a very important precedent for us. the gay and lesbian lobby have opened a lot of doors for sex worker activists, who are out there fighting for your right to indulge in pay for play without prosecution.

you don't have to 'like' the idea of two men having sex. actually, the concept does nothing for me, either. but then again - i'm not into bdsm or [CodeWord118] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord118) or anal sex either, but you'll never hear me condemning prostitution!

Rubber Nursey

09-27-04, 16:15

Hey Dickhead - you wanna be a thirty year old redhead?? ;)

Dickhead

09-27-04, 17:10

I would eat you like a chicken wing. I would lick you like an ice cream cone. I would nibble on you like a cocktail hors d'oeuvre.

Sinanju Master

09-27-04, 20:32

Me personally, I have no prob with gay men as long as nothing is thrown in my face. Then again, I don't like ANYONE to throw ANYTHING (with the exception of a "well-groomed" female! Heh heh heh!) in my face. When I lived in the NE US, I had a gay room mate and I knew he was gay BEFORE I signed the lease. He was a white collar professional, an immaculate housekeeper (d-uh!) and he was a bit surprised by my openmindedness. The only awkward moment was when I was cooking a dish that I had left in the oven and he reminded me it was still there and was probably done by now. I went downstairs to check on it and my roomie was in the middle of seducing a male guest! I quickly fixed my dinner, took it back upstairs and thought about the scene I had witnessed. It was a bit unnerving, but who am I to determine the path of another's happiness if it doesn't harm ME or society in general?

Oh yeah... RN, you have a PM! ;-)

PS

I'm likin' you better ALREADY!

Member #2041

09-27-04, 20:42

Let's here it for tolerance of other people's sexual behaviors. It serves us very well to remember that MOST of society would persecute mongers and providers for THE SAME REASONS that they persecute gays: Simply because their sexual behavior is outside of that which is considered to be mainstream acceptable.

The strides which gays have made in fighting for their own rights to sleep with whomever they consent to sleep with have obvious spillover benefits to those of us who hobby.

GettingTang

09-27-04, 20:47

i remember when i was about 15 and living in houston, i lived in a large condo complex that had a gym, pool sauna and spa. i was there with a bunch of buddies swimming and having a pretty good time. a large group of guys showed up, they hit the hot tub and started blasting music. within about 2 minutes it became quite apparent, something was not right. now for me, the closest thing i had ever seen regarding gay shit, was playing "smear the queer" on the playground. i was shocked and left with a real sick feeling in my stomach. these guys were all in speedos and doing all but ass fuking right there in the hot tub.

about 5 minutes later a very large marine who lived in the complex came down and one of the guys in the tub, yelled out "hey beefcake, care to join us" well needless to say, he did join them, only not in the capacity they were hoping for. 5 minutes after that, two ambulances showed up. quite a scene. however, it truly disturbed my thought process to have witnessed a bunch of gay guys making out, feeling each other up and a few even doing oral sex right there at the side of the pool. mad me sick and from that time forward, i despise and can't stand flaming gay dudes. if they do it out of sight, in their own house, all the more power to them, but they often don't. they want us all to know they are gay! they want to shove it at us and some even make fun of us being straight.

tang~!

Sinanju Master

09-27-04, 21:32

GT, I can't say I disagree with you on the ill feelings regarding seeing it in public. If such carousing occured even between HETEROSEXUALS, I'd furrow my brow in disapproval. If you do it behind closed doors, fine, but to flaunt it publicly is a huge lack of class.

Rubber Nursey

09-28-04, 06:20

For anyone to have a virtual orgy in a public place is 'a huge lack of class'. As the mother of a boy not much younger that GT was at the time he witnessed the hot tub scene, I am disgusted that adults would behave like that with no consideration for the fact that children could - and obviously did - witness it.

What disturbs me more about that post though, is that two disgraceful acts were committed that night - a public orgy and a gay bashing - and the thing that stands out as most repulsive in GT's mind, is men perfoming oral sex on each other. I can assure you, I would MUCH prefer my teenage son to observe two men having sex, than one testosterone-fueled, combat trained goon bashing their heads in.

Travis Bickle 2

09-28-04, 07:26

I agree with Sinanju Master, It would be just as inappropriate for a group of heterosexual adults to have sex in a public place where children could witness their acts. The fact that they were homosexual doesn't make it "more wrong".

Myself, I've been caught having sex with SW's a couple of times in public places. My behavior was just as inappropriate as the gays, I don't see where sexual orientation has anything to do with it. And I don't think I deserved to be hospitalized because of it. Cited for indecent exposure -- sure., beat up -- no.

Personally, as long as they stop short of sex, flaming homo's don't bother me a bit. We have a street called Broadway in Seattle where they gather, hold hands, kiss, etc., and it doesn't bother this guy who is secure in his sexuality. Sometimes it absolutely cracks me up, and I get a good laugh out of it.

In fact, my girlfriend always comments how good-looking most of them are. Thank God, they're not competing with me for chicks.

Civ2000

Rubber Nursey

09-28-04, 07:29

"...and it doesn't bother this guy who is secure in his sexuality".

And I think that pretty much sums it up. Well said Civ2000. :)

Can someone please explain to me exactly what 'in your face' homosexuality has to do with the unavailability and/or undesirability of American Women? Like many guys here have already pointed out, these men are not competition for you. Even if women LIKE homosexual men, they are still never gonna be sleeping with them. As a woman, I am genuinely interested in what effect you think gay equality is having on women in general.

Travis Bickle 2

09-28-04, 08:32

RN, I don't think that "in your face homosexuality" has anything to do with the unavailability/undesirablity of American women. I think it just increases the number of available women for us straight guys.

I truly believe that American women are simply mirroring their American male counterparts. I can't even begin to keep track of the number of male friends I have (ranging in age from 40 to 60, most with beer guts, couch potatoes) who feel that any women who isn't under 35 with a great body is not good enough for them. I say "look in the mirror pal".

I think a lot of this has to do with the availablity of prostitutes. I know that after having sex with 18 and 19-year-old girls all week the 46-year-old girlfriend just doesn't compare. These guys complain about what bittches these gals are yet they are every bit as shallow and fickle. Their pickiness is taking them completely out of contention.

Sure the average American women is interested in how much money you make. Ever since the cave-dwelling days women have been interested in the male who was the best provider. It makes sense. These women in the third world countries look at us as rich gods. But get them over here where they have options and they really aren't any different than their American counterparts.

I've always said that if I ever won the lottery I wouldn't mention it to any woman I met because I wouldn't know if she loved me for me or for my money. If she fell in love thinking I was just an average Joe, then I would buy her anything she wanted. When you go overseas -- the women think you did just win the lottery. Of course they will treat you great.

I happen to love American women. It doesn't shock or bother me at all that a gorgeous twenty something would only be interested in this fifty-year-old, balding, overweight guy because I make good money. I'm only interested in them because they are young and pretty and by dating them I am saving a bit of time and money that I would ordinarily spend on hookers.

I know this is an unpopular point of view guys so please feel free to fire away.

Civ2000

Mike12

09-28-04, 09:16

Candace Bushnell, the feminist author, in an interview ,comes out saying that alot of woman secretly want to have affairs with their best friends because the men in NY are so horrible. Men in NY don't knopw how to treat a woman but their best friends do. This was in response to the Cynthia Nixon story.

Tina Brown, on the other hand, feels sorry for NY men in having to deal with evilish, Manolo Blahnik wearing female stormtroopers at loose on the streets of NY.

My beef is that now being gay is the trendy new in thing for woman. Madonna kissed Britney and made it official. These girls are turning gay because it's cool on TV and in the movies. Then they turn back straight when it's convenient like Ellen Heche and some others not to be named. I don't want to deal with some shallow female who can't think for herself. These types are getting bolder everday and target females who seem weakminded. One chick I know had a nice-looking broad come on to her and ask her if she was in "the life" and that she should think about it. Alot of these lesbians go both ways cause they can get away with it. Just more competition for me the way I see it.

As far as the gay dudes, you cool with me, I'm cool with you. Get stupid and pop off then you get dealt with. And here in NY it happens alot with the queer crying gay-bashing. These types play games to get your attention then wonder why they caught a sharp elbow, or got mushed in pile of trash on 8th ave. It's all a respect game, not too hard to play.

Joe Zop

09-28-04, 15:33

Well said, Civ2000, and I'm with you. Obviously there are other reasons men and women of different ages hook up, but the shallow aspect certainly often come to the fore. I don't know that I completely agree that it's about the availability of prostitutes, however -- I think our culture in general worships and glorifies youth, and guys are responding to that.

I also find it funny that there are posts all across WSG about guys being with two girls and then complaining that they "weren't really into each other." So, they weren't gay enough but were only pretending and that's a problem. And here the complaint is that people are too gay (though I echo and agree with the whole issue of inappropriate public behavior) and that there's too much gay stuff around.

Apparently, the only correct equation for the world is bisexual women, who are, of course, primarily into guys and would only do a woman if the guy brought her into bed, and then would munch like a champ, and no hint of gay guys who would make men uncomfortable about their own sexuality. But these women had better have their priorities straight, because if they're just dykes, well, then, they're just messed up *%(#es, and that's another example of how things are screwed up.

(The other ironic equation here, of course, is all the complaining here that American women are only into dollars by guys who spend large amount of time obsessing about such women possibly getting too much of it.)

Personally, what makes me sick is Christians, especially the evangelical, yapping that because they believe a certain way, that's somehow trump. Give me gay guys making out by the barrelful as opposed to one more priest or preacher lecturing me on politics or morality, or one more brainless idiot knocking on my door trying to convert me. I've had far more contact with clone-drone Christians who want to browbeat me about the rightness of their beliefs and the wrongness of mine than I have with gay culture trying to "make me gay" as though that were happening. Gay culture at least has the ability at times to be entertaining.

Rock Dog

09-29-04, 05:35

Hey guys,

They (and you know who I mean) can do whatever they want. As long as I don't have to see it or hear about it. If it doesn't affect me, I don't really care one way or the other.

By the same token, I wouldn't want anyone imposing their beliefs, morals or values on me if what I'm doing doesn't affect them.

Live and let live,

Rock

Daddy Rulz

09-29-04, 11:31

American Woman rant:

People wonder why I avoid them. Over the last couple months I've spent a bit of time getting to know a lady here in sex prison. I know better, really I do but I thought I would try it again. She seemed nice, pleasent even. Not too young, not too old, pretty without being beautiful but pretty enough.

We went to dinner a few times. Had fun, nice conversation I thought we felt comfortable with each other.

A few nights ago we were supposed to go see a movie and have a bit. When I picked her up she asked if we could go to my place instead. We hadn't been intimate yet so I'm thinking perhaps tonight is the night. We got to my place and she asked if she could use my shower, remarking that when she offers her self to a man the first time she likes to be clean and fresh.

Now remember I didn't invite her over, she invited her self. I didn't toss her into the shower she asked if she could use it. I reminded myself this isn't P4P so I would have to approach her a little different. Lit a few candels, put on some nice music, undressed and put on a robe etc. etc.

After her shower we started making love, kissing caressing did my favorite thing DATY to several orgasms for her. She then asked if she could return the favor so of course I said yes. She started with a full body boob massage, very nice. then setteled between my legs, licked my dick a time or two then told me she was having second thoughts (I had taken a shower 30 minutes before I picked her up so hygien was not the issue) and would I mind if we got dressed.

WOULD I MIND!!!!!!!!!

Got dressed, dropped her off, deleted the number from my cell phone. I know better, I really do. This wasn't the first time some shit like this happened to me but I swear it will be the last.

Worf1972

09-29-04, 17:16

You see Daddy Rulz, overseas half of that BULL SHIT wouldn't be necessary. One dinner, show her a good time and BANG!!!!!!

You would either be in it or moved on to another girl who wouldn't play with you.

Damm AMERICAN WOMEN sucks.... How sad one either discovered this later in life/career or if you are in the military overseas........

Johan007

10-02-04, 11:56

Hi Daddy Rulz,

read your story....I think you were fucked over....well that is not literaly spoken!! I know what you mean. Happended to me also here in Holland (were the women also are veryyyyyy emancipated and BUT ugly imho)

I was in USA (Fl) back in 1994 for 14 days as my sisters boyfriend did invited us (he has a sister in Tampa which are married with a former US militairy man)

Also went a couple of days to Miami beach and Orlando.

Guess what??? Then I even din't look 2 seconds at US women. NOOOOOOOOOO SIR. My eyes were put on the many pretty and hot LATINAS I saw!!!!:-)

Ever since I am addicted to Latina AZZ,LEGS...and especialy PUSSY.

one advice: Go to mexico,Brasil,DR,Peru,Honduras or whatever Latino country (just make sure you learn some spanish or Portugese) and you will NEVER again WANT any AMERICAN WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO NOT waiste your time with crapy women that don't know how to threat a man!!!

Latinas Rulzzzzzzzz.

Johan

Smut Villain

10-03-04, 06:01

*************************************************

Johan007 sez:

"one advice: Go to mexico,Brasil,DR,Peru,Honduras or whatever Latino country (just make sure you learn some spanish or Portugese) and you will NEVER again WANT any AMERICAN WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

*************************************************

I told you so :)

4 NIK 8

10-03-04, 06:03

Yes, there are American women whom I would like to fuck but I ain't wasting my time trying to find opne when there is so much hassle free tang out there.

Mystic Pimp

10-04-04, 00:50

I know this is not for everybody, but one group of American women I will actively look for are those that swing. It's all about no-strings-attached sex, and that can hold me over till I find a female I would want to settle down with.

Cash Works

10-04-04, 21:53

MP,

YMMV, but in my experience with swingers, the only time there are no hassels is if both members of the couple have plenty of other partners. I dabbled with older married women in "open relationships" when I was in college & rarely had any problems if they were one night stands and never saw them again, but if they were repeats, I would eventually wind up meeting their husband/boyfriend & things would always get, well, uncomfortable.

The last time I knowingly dabbled with a swinging female was about 8 years ago, on a trip to Bali. About 4 days before I went back to Thailand, I bumped into an Australian couple at a bar. They informed me that they were in an "open" relationship & I wound up taking the woman back to my hotel that night & the following night as well. The day before I left, her husband showed up at my hotel & gave me a load of shit about fucking his wife, who, just two days before, he had been encouraging me to fuck! (turns out, he wasn't getting any strange, so he got jealous or something). I'm pretty sure he would have tried to kick my ass if I wasn't twice his size.

CW

Fangy

10-05-04, 01:52

Just an opinion. But I believe our veterans overseas are fighting for the rights of all Americans. I believe that is what Freedom stands for. (End of my opinion.)

Wicked SH

10-05-04, 06:38

American women are (the kind of women that exchange sex for goods and services but are not prostitutes! Also can be defined as the w word.) It is that simple. Once you live overseas you can see very clearly how much so. I have seen a few compare them to prostitutes, this is an insult to a noble profession. Prostitutes agree to have sex with your bald headed fat hairy ass for X dollars. (Why do bald guys have hairy asses? Is it some kind of bad joke god played on them?) She does not get the money until services are rendered, she doesn’t say she has a headache half way through, and if she does she doesn’t get the money.

American women feel you must pay for everything on a date just for privilege of hauling her fat ass around town. That in itself can be looked at like an investment in future, if not for there usually being no future. You haul her around, first to diner, then a movie, then a bar, while in the car or chatting at dinner you can expect to hear what the latest Dr. Phil or Opera segment is, if you disagree you can’t voice that opinion or you will loose any chance to get laid she will label you a jerk and only take advantage of your futile attempts to win her heart/sex. While at the bar she hooks up with some guy she knows and introduces you. They talk about old times and he monopolizes the conversation. Once again if you resist you are labeled a jerk and loose the chance. If after navigating all the obstacles you haven’t honked her off you make it back to her place, you might get a night of hohum sex. That is if she isn’t passed out because she was drunk, or doesn’t have a head ache, or is in the mood at that second. That is the best possible situation for a normal guy. More likely you pay all the money get nothing but grief and she leaves the bar with some guy and you end up looking like a chump.

Not every woman in America is that way, but so many of them are. If you are very good looking then you will be the guy that makes the normal guys look like chumps when you walk out with their girl. If you are rich you pay the bills and the girl keeps putting out hoping she can convince you to marry her so she has control of your money. You look at the money as a cost of doing business and see the girls for what they are. All of this just proves my first statement.

But the whole notion of love and a normal guy doing the right thing and marrying the perfect girl who always takes care of him is a load of bunk.

Why it is that contract law does not cover pre-nup agreements? There are several reasons. If the agreements could not be disputed afterwards then men know what their costs are and can make a cost/benefit comparison if the relationship goes bad and divorce in America would certainly increase. The religious zealots will not support any law that monetize marriage and increases the divorce rate. Women’s groups will not support any law that makes women responsible for their actions. If marriage is monetized the clear connection between marriage and prostitution become obvious possibly leading to decriminalization of prostitution.

Daddy Rulz

10-05-04, 13:48

Johan007 wrote,

One advice: Go to Mexico, Brasil, DR, Peru, Honduras or whatever Latino country (just make sure you learn some spanish or Portugese) and you will NEVER again WANT any AMERICAN WOMAN!

Johan you forgot the country that holds the Holy Grail for us mongers, Gentlem remove your hats please, Argentina!

It is indeed good advice my friend and I have been there 14 or 15 times, probably why I have no tolerance for the crap we are expected to put up with here. I just can't believe I fell for it another time.

DR

Smut Villain

10-15-04, 05:40

Domino,

I'll admit, sometimes the discussions/complaints in this forum get a little overboard (almost to the point of whining), and I'm guilty of it myself; but the reason for this (I'm only speaking from my personal experience) is that so much of the quirky female behavior described here has been witnessed again and again (and again....), ad infinitum. And we're talking about some pretty neurotic behavior at that. A lot of guys aren't able to make the same claims as you, and this "Western Female neurosis" isn't helping matters at all; in fact, many of these same guys often see tremendous improvement in their love lives when operating in cultures where such craziness is rarely seen vis-a-vis dating rituals. Trust me on this one- I have first-hand experience of this phenomenom in nearly every country I've visited (including 1st-world locales such as Australia and Canada, so P4P and "Green Cards" don't always explain this condition).

BTW, I have a question: if you are such a hit with the ladies, how'd you end up being a Senior Member of a known prostitution forum?

Love The Ladies

10-15-04, 14:26

1. Daddy Rulz,

Women get like that sometimes. It is simply the nature of feminimity. IMHO, I would have have told her that we could get dressed but that I'd like to hold her for a while. It seems that she was feeling insecure and that it is your job to make her feel secure. Most likely after 10-15 minutes of holding and fucking she would be willing to go again.

Then again, this girl could be simply be whacko.

Wicked SH

10-15-04, 19:30

Domino,

No your not! Most of us have. I can't say I have boned more than you, but I have boned quite a number. It still boils down to the same issues though. American women would much rather stay at home stuffing Twinkies down their pie hole watching Dr Phil than go out and meet a normal guy.

I have worked in many companies as a consultant. I listen to the same complaints over and over, generally not said directly to me but if in ears shot why not listen. "Why can't I meet a nice guy" says the heffer. "I have tried bars and nobody will pay attention to me, I post a personal and all I meet are losers. I just can't find a nice one..." I learned many moons ago not to pipe in with common sense and tell her why. But here I can without getting fired. She can't meet a nice guy because her definition of a nice guy is someone who looks close to Brad Pitt and is as charming as Hugh Grant, with enough money to buy her a rock the size of Texas and fork lift to help her haul her ass out of a limo. If you’re a 3 trying to bag a 10 you’re not going to have much luck. No matter what side of the table you call home. In the end she mostly stays home until her friends force her to go out or sucker someone into meeting her. He doesn’t meet her expectations and the whole routine starts again. This is the case even if the girl isn’t a heffer, normal girls do the same thing. Before I left the states I lived with twins. Both attractive a little over weight with some acne and both said those lines above. I dragged them out with me several times and they fell into the same problem. Guys came up they shot them down. Until a guy that was good looking or obviously loaded. They drooled and used every trick to try and land him. These guys know the game, they take the girl out fuck her and promptly forget her. She goes back and complains there are no good guys.

The reason you see many of us post here is that we are trying to help our compadres get the hell outta dodge and see the real world. Tonight I met two girls both model quality, with great personalities, good education and are not after a green card or money. (Neither want to leave Shanghai, and both insist on paying and/or keeping the expenses low.) Now I am not saying every girl overseas are like these two, but in 15 years in the states I never even met 1. This is just the 2 from tonight, and I have met many others. BTW they both are GF not P4P or freebies. I have numbers to over 50 girls I have humped here that would make great wives. The only reason I haven’t married one of them is they all have a rule I can’t live with in all honesty. Every one of those girls wants a committed relationship. Meaning NO MONGERING, dating, flirting, or many other past times I so enjoy. So if anyone is willing to give up those activities for a beautiful Chinese girl that will cook, clean, love, work, and provide bountiful sex send me a PM, and I will see if I can help you meet them. In the mean time I keep doing all my hobbies and looking for a girl that can honestly accept that. (Not likely I know but I’m not in a rush.)

Dickhead

10-16-04, 08:38

Domino may have 3 holed a bunch of American women, and he is definitely a freak, but I don't necessarily see correlation between those two things.

Daddy Rulz

10-16-04, 11:14

Love the Ladies said

I would have have told her that we could get dressed but that I'd like to hold her for a while. It seems that she was feeling insecure and that it is your job to make her feel secure.

In this country when a woman says "no" in any form, the only thing I'm doing is getting dressed and getting us in a crowded place. I would never, ever run the risk of allowing a nuerotic western woman have a chance to claim She was "pressured" into sex. I know that's not what you meant bubba but I won't expose myself to that at all. We live in a country where women that have had a few cocktails (I'm not talking about being blind drunk but rather simply a bit tipsy) are then later claiming they didn't give consent due to being intoxicated. Right now at this moment there are guys getting their butts streached due to this.

I'm also not a big believer anymore in indulging this insaine behaviour that women here think is their birthright.

Domino, no your not I've posted a fairly respectible life time number and have 3 holed more than my share. Why am I posting on a board about prostitution if I have such good luck with the ladies you say? I just don't have the patience to be spending the time, energy and resources it takes to seducce, overweight sexually inferiour women that can't be bothered to spend a minute on their appearance unless it's to try and fuck my best friend after we break it off. As Smut Villian says, it's not once or twice but again, and again, and again (and again). Being able to fly for free also has something to do with it I think. I'm not stuck here and don't have to save up for 6 months to be able to hit BsAs.

Sinanju Master

10-16-04, 22:11

WICKED SH,

I hear ya! Until I was shipped overseas, I never KNEW what I was missing! Most chicks that I met on my travels were easy to talk to, even if I wasn't looking to have my bodily fluids drained. Here, in the States, a woman INSTANTLY seeks a way to shoot you down out of the sky and brag to her girlfriends after the fact. Several things I noticed in my conversations with foreign women over the years is that I was able to make them laugh (Hell, I love to make ANYONE laugh), I was able to establish a rapport with them, I was able to generate a genuine interest from them because I displayed a genuine interest IN THEM and they didn't lug along the baggage most American women carry around. I know that there are those out there that say you have to dig through a mound of trash before finding a treasure, but here, the mound of trash is as far as the Hubbel Telescope can see.

Another point is their gold-digging ways. A case in point: I was in Psych class in college and the instructor conducted an informal exercise by asking the women what they would think if a guy spent $25 or less on them on a FIRST DATE. MOST answered that they thought that he was a cheapskate and wouldn't bother to see him again. The instructor then said: (perhaps in order to get these baracudas to expand their way of thinking) What if the guy cooked the entire dinner for you and took you to a free cultural event and near the end of the evening, the two of you did something inexpensive, but FUN? Many of these mercenaries were initialy stopped in their tracks and looked as if they were contemplating the fact that the rest of the class would find them out: the possibility that money is the ONLY driving force in their lives. MOST of them shut the fuck up, but it was too late, a FEW hardcore gold-diggers held to their opinion. THIS is a major sticking point as far as I'm concerned, and NO American woman has a pussy so amazing that I'm gonna surrender my financial life to her. They can call me a loser if they like, but in MY opinion, the Loser is the one they are able to separate from his wallet while he gets NOTHING in return.

GoodEnough

10-17-04, 07:40

Maybe I have lived outside of the States for too long, and have thus forgotten what it's like, but the general tone of these posts reinforces the decision to stay outside for an even longer period of time. At first, I attributed alot of the negative remarks to Western women in general, but now, I do not think that is the case. I lived in Europe for years before moving to Asia, and the grasping avarice that you guys describe so well is not a characteristic of the European women I knew. I therefore conclude that this is a uniquely American phenomonon.

Maybe the fault lies in the obsessively commercial orientation of US society, that monetizes everything it ingests. Or maybe the whole thing is attributable to the not-so-latent puritanism in the US which equates sex with marriage (and therefore value), or maybe it's just that the US is one fucked up place. I mean how else could you explain Bush? Whatever the case, I no longer care, and I thank you guys for keeping me aware that my decision to leave was the right one.

GE

Smut Villain

10-17-04, 09:31

Is my computer fucked, or did Domino's recent posts in this forum suddenly disappear? How'd that happen (and why)?

Cash Works

10-17-04, 16:30

SM,

I have to congratulate you on your "Hubble Telescope" observation, LMFAO.

To be perfectly honest though, ALL women carry around tons of baggage, it's just that foreign women seem to be better at keeping their problems to themselves & handling their problems without the need for us to intervene. For some reason, American women think we want them to dump everything on us, or they think it's our responsibility to intervene if they allow us to give them a prod.

GE,

It sounds like you're suffering from the same thing as me, or at least, if you haven't moved back to the US, you are anticipating suffering what I'm suffering now - Culture Shock! I lived in the US from the time I was born until I finished University. For the next 18 years, I only spent about 3-4 months per year at most here, generally for no more than 6 weeks at a time - nice vacation, I suppose. Anyway, a couple years ago, I moved back here full time & have been regretting it ever since.

When I was a University student, I would get laid occasionally by picking girls up at parties or bars, but to be perfectly honest, not often enough to satisfy my sex drive, since the coeds I was chasing were more interested in older men who had money - not a poor starving student. My best luck was with women who were 10-15 years older than I was - I'd meet them at bars or at my job - they weren't interested in a relationship, just wanted sex and they were far better in bed than their younger counterparts. The coeds would usually only allow one or two pops then it was "I'm too sore" or "what's wrong with you?". The older women were generally able to keep going until I was spent - if their pussy dried up, then they'd get me off by other means (BJ or HJ). So, girls my own age were preferred for their looks, but older women were preferred for their ability to satisfy.

Now, it seems that I'm in the category of "older men" as mentioned in the previous paragraph, so the young coeds I meet at bars as well as their older counterparts are basically wanting to check out my bank statement, my investment portfolio & last 7 years tax returns before committing to a night of getting naked and nasty. By being in a foreign country, this "financial background check" is bypassed simply by your being there & not being local - if you were a local, you'd be getting some of the same treatment by the local ladies that American women give everybody.

SV,

You're right, Domino's post doesn't show up on my computer either. You Senior members have the ability to edit your posts, can you also delete the posts if you want?

CW

Sinanju Master

10-21-04, 21:42

Hi kiddies! I ran across a guide for behavior that will make for a happy ending on both sides of the P4P encounter. I submitted it to RN, and she laffed her ass off! Making her laff wasn't my intent, but it was a nice secondary effect. Coming from a pro, she said that it is an excellent guide for a newbie (or even an experienced monger, in my view). A lot of it is common sense, but there was a point or two that made me write down notes! Enjoy, all!

http://www.escort.odessa.ua/?CodeOfHonor

Smut Villain

10-22-04, 04:56

SM,

ROFLMAO! That was funny as hell, but also very, very true! This is good advice for dealing with non-P4P encounters as well.

Sporadic

10-22-04, 12:23

GoodEnough
Maybe I have lived outside of the States for too long, and have thus forgotten what it's like, but the general tone of these posts reinforces the decision to stay outside for an even longer period of time.I know what you mean. A friend put it me, after I exclaimed how much the US had changed in the years since I left... "are you sure it was not you who changed?"

Something to think about.

Cheers,

Sporadic

Rabo Verde

10-22-04, 18:58

Sporadic

10-22-04, 19:11

Chuponalgas,

According to my records, the obesity acceptance act was passed during the Clinton administration... I think it was some staffer named Lewinsky who finally persuaded the President to sign the bill. ;)

Sinanju Master

10-23-04, 04:18

I saw a segment of 20/20 and it featured a book authored by a woman (and helped along by MEN) that "decodes" a guy's behavior if he doesn't call her. Excuse me but what about a "fair and balanced" program here? What about airing a segment about the female baracudas who act as deceitful sponges for the sole purpose of separating a guy from his hard earned resources? Then again, I can sooner expect Dubya to wear drag and lead the Gay Pride parade down 5th Ave in NY while lip synching Cher songs.

Daddy Rulz

10-23-04, 05:06

Chuponalgas

I think it became aceptable when some idiot started the BBW thing. It's amazing bubba, they celebrate their obesity demanding that people find them attractive. "SHUDDER" I'm in BsAs in three days!

Ryan007

10-24-04, 01:07

Here in los angeles, I find it difficult to meet girls. Everything's so separated by the highway/road system. Everything is spread out, and everyone's isolated in their cars. Plus I don't see all the beautiful women that are supposed to be here. I just finished college, probably will go to grad school next year, but everyone on campus is in a hurry. I get no flirting signals, only very rarely. I could pay a professional, but I dont want to. There's also a lot of segregation in the US in many different regards, making expanding one's social circle difficult. I've heard of people hooking up in bars / clubs / parties, but I have yet to experience that myself. No, I'm not ugly or short, just short on cash. I'm pleased with my outer self, but I'm not feeling very confident due to my lack of scoring. Dude, it can't be that hard, everyone gets laid except me. My problem is, I don't know WHERE SPECIFICALLY to meet HOT girls.

Do I really need to go abroad just to get laid? It seems like such a drastic thing to do. Sure, I could have a short fling while on vacation, but if it's as good overseas as everyone on this forum says, how does one live / work abroad? I've heard so many good things about Sweden. I'd like to visit, but money is short.

I'd appreciate your advice!

Rubber Nursey

10-24-04, 16:16

I'm gonna regret asking this question, but here goes...

Give me a wish list, guys. Describe your perfect woman for me. Tell me exactly what you're looking for - not what you're NOT looking for, but what you really WANT in a woman. Be honest and realistic, too. I know you'd all love to do Angelina Jolie - hell, SO WOULD I!!! - but you're not likely to run into her in the laundromat. If you could meet your future wife/girlfriend in your local supermarket tomorrow, what would she be like?

***(added a half hour later) And no cheating! Put it on the board, not in my message box! You two know who you are ;)

Sporadic

10-24-04, 16:39

RN,

Does not exist IMHO. If they were to cater to my every need, fantasy, want and desire they would not have much room left over for a personality.

I found mine many years ago. Perfect? Far from it. But then again, so am I. Can I compensate for things I find less than ideal? Yes, most of the time.

Of course, I along with many others around here seem to be more than willing to describe perfection as: "RN." ;)

Cheers,

Sporadic

Sinanju Master

10-24-04, 17:03

I remember watching an episode of Star Trek:Voyager where Seven of Nine wished someone a happy birthday and that the guest of homor received ALL her wishes except ONE: for the purpose of constantly pursuing perfection.

Yes, there IS no such creature. If she DID exist, the novelty would soon wear off. That's why if she were less than perfect, she could strive for that goal, even thogh she could never attain it. The journey itself would be the source of enjoyment rather than arriving at the destination.

At the extreme risk of giving RN a Zeppelin-sized head, she fills several of the criteria I listed in a PM to her. Of course I didn't tell HER that.

Sinanju Master

10-24-04, 21:14

Damn you, RN, I didn't see the sentence: "No cheating", so, I'll step up to the plate and lay it on the line.

Doll, I KNOW yer gonna trap some guys with their own words when they answer, THAT'S why I'm gonna give you a REALISTIC answer that even YOU have to agree with.

MY perfect woman:

to list superficial features (Yes, I admit that they are SUPERFICIAL features) if I had my pick, in order of preference - redhead, brunette, black hair then blonde

a NORMAL body type. By that, I mean if she has a few pounds to lose (NOT OBESE!) I'm not gonna penalize her for that, because I'd give her incentives to lose it instead of criticizing her. If she had small breasts, that'd be OK UNLESS they were SO SMALL that they would resemble an 11 year old boy. I need SOMETHING to play with and I think even YOU have to agree with THAT. I'm not really a big fan of the Jennifer Lopez type of ass, but if my perfect woman had one, so be it. I'd take it as an added bonus that I wasn't lookig for, but would accept with gratitude.

She HAS to have a sexy attitude. THAT will go a LONG WAY toward keeping me on a short leash. For example, I'd like it if I were watching a football game and she took the remote out of my hand, sat on my lap facing me and straddling me, looked dead into my eyes and said in a sexy no-nonsense voice: "I want you to lick my pussy". What's three missed hours of a football game compared to THAT? It would also help if she were open to experimentation. I licked chocolate syrup off my ex's breasts, but the next woman I'm with, I wanna lick chocolate syrup or Dom Perrignon out of her pussy.

She HAS to be giving. I don't mean she gives ALL and I TAKE ALL. I mean that she has to occasionally do things for me just because she likes to make me happy just as *I* would do the same for HER.

She HAS to have a sense of humor. I wouldn't subject her to the same humor that I engage in with my best friend (a woman) but she has to be able to laugh.

This is a short list, Doll, but I think that even YOU, a seasoned pro, has to agree with this list....

Travis Bickle 2

10-24-04, 23:09

When describing my perfect woman I realize that looks really don't have anything to do with it. Of course I want her to be physically attractive but there is no single must have. I have been with beautiful women with large breasts, small breasts, skinny, 30 pounds overweight, all different hair colors and styles. I found them all gorgeous in their own way. Katherine Zeta Jones and Kate Hudson would both work although they look completely different. She doesn't have to be beautiful (okay looking would work) as long as she has a sexy attitude.

I think the most important attribute is attitude, much like Sinanju Master said. I also like an assertive gal who isn't afraid to initiate sex. I would love to have her come in the room while I'm watching the game and straddle my face with her pussy and ask me to lick it. Also someone who is into experiementation and trying new things.

I also like feminine women. There is a time and a place for everything of course, but if I'm taking a women out to dinner I like her to be wearing a skirt, heels, and a nice blouse with some sex lingerie underneath. Nice hairdo, painted finger and toe nails, earrings. Nice perfume. You guys know when one of those young gals walks past you in a restaurant or something and they just smell so fresh and nice? I like that.

Good personality and sense of humor. Sure.

Non-smoker, light drinker, and treats you nice -- just like I would be treating her. That would be my perfect woman. A five, six, or a seven could definately fall into that category. In fact, maybe even preferable to a 10 because I'd hate to see every guy we walked past drooling over her.

Civ2000

Joe Zop

10-25-04, 06:56

Well said so far, guys.

I haven't got a perfect body type as attitude is more important than specific physical issues. (I think if you monger for a while you either get locked in on a particular type or are open to most anything. I'm the latter.) I don't care in the least about race, ethnicity, coloring, breast size, age, etc. other than how it might add something interesting to the equation. Yes, a non-smoker. Yes, absolutely, as Sinanju Master said, a sense of humor is crucial. Not only should I be able to make her laugh, easily and often, but she should also make me laugh. I prefer someone with a sense and ability to express their own sensuality, but that also has a wide range, and I'm open to repeated persuasions and manifestations.

My idea woman is someone with a brain that works every bit as well or preferably even better than mine. I prefer someone whose brain and personality works somewhat differently than mine does, who challenges me to look at things in ways I'd not otherwise consider. (Preferably over and over and when I'm not expecting it and may even at times find it annoying, as long as annoying's not the default mode and as long as she understands when I get the point and/or when I'm incapable of absorbing more.) I like someone with a talent I don't have but can manage to understand. The more of that talent the better. The more that talent befuddles me and forces me to incorporate it into my considerations the better.

Most importantly she has to have heart, real heart. Not someone who's going to be spending half their time sniping about this or that person, but someone who's going to hear the same stuff and have empathy. I don't want disguised niceness or fake interest -- I want someone who really gives a damn about other people's lives, interests, problems, triumphs, and mine as well. I've met far too many who pretend all that while really listening to a little song in their head, and it's their own theme song, with lyrics that say, "You're an idiot, you're a fool, when can we talk about me, me, me?" No thank you -- sooner or later the real song comes out, and that's the kind of thing you have to live with day in and day out. I need someone whose core values are similar, though not necessarily completely the same, as my own.

I want someone who is a challenge, who challenges me, who I'll need to take a lifetime to figure out, but who I understand innately. My ideal woman is simultaneously independent and able to do any damn thing she pleases by herself and also needs and values me for support, assistance, to talk to, and because my take on things helps her with her own. I like someone who is complicated, but who has the ability to be simple when needed. My ideal woman is also someone who is comfortable with change.

Finally, my ideal woman is someone who understands economy of scale, who doesn't believe in burning down the restaurant because the waiter forgot the bread, who doesn't believe in burning the relationship to ash because three weeks ago I forgot to put the toilet lid down, but who, when something really does matter, really cares and will go all the way. I don't mind a temper, as long as it's coupled with the ability to forgive and to go back to the same state as before things flared up once things are worked through.

So, basically, passion for life, passion for me, passion for others, passion for herself, in mutable, flexible, and ever-variegated amounts.

Rubber Nursey

10-25-04, 07:44

Well, I can cross myself straight off Joe's list, by the looks of it - but I might still be in with a chance with a couple of others. :p

Just kidding. Keep it coming, fellas. There's been some really great comments made so far and I don't think any of them have been too unrealistic, either.
I've been so caught up in what I DON'T want for the past few years, that I didn't even realise (until a very wise friend of mine called me chicken-shit and made me take a long, hard look at myself ;) ) that I have no idea what I DO want. How can I go out and search for happiness when I have no idea what it looks like?

Tea Boy

10-25-04, 09:08

Leaving aside any OTHER issues, I am shocked when I come back to the USA at how many truly OBESE people there are here now. Both sexes, but it seems more women than men. You don't see this much obesity ALMOST anywhere else in the world. When did it become acceptable in the USA to be 50-100 lbs overweight?????

Chuponalgas,

The esoteric teacher Gurdjieff had a theory that repressed sexuality often manifests as obesity. I am not aware of scientific evidence, but it seems to me common sense that repressing one appetite could result in over-indulgence in another.

Tea Boy

Joe Zop

10-25-04, 16:40

Well, I can cross myself straight off Joe's list, by the looks of it

I though you were working on that smoking thing? :D Besides, there's a big difference between describing an ideal woman and actually locating one. I, like most other mortals, am tickled pink with a close approximation.

Smut Villain

10-25-04, 17:42

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from RN:

"I've been so caught up in what I DON'T want for the past few years, that I didn't even realise (until a very wise friend of mine called me chicken-shit and made me take a long, hard look at myself ) that I have no idea what I DO want. "
---------------------------------------------------------------------

You've hit the proverbial nail on the head with that statement, RN. I think this may be the problem with a lot of people (men AND women, to be fair) over here. If you don't know what the hell you want in the first place, and keep dwelling on negatives all the time, then NO man (or woman) will EVER be perfect. Period.

The only way to find a "perfect" (I use that term loosely because humans are not perfect to begin with) mate is to first be brutally honest with one's self, i.e. what the hell do you REALLY want?

I think it also helps to keep a somewhat open mind; your perfect match may end up being someone you didn't expect.

BK Big Fish

10-25-04, 19:36

I'd like to bring up something that I've been thinking about for a few years.

I remember watching the movie Malena, starring Monica Bellucci, in which she was a prostitute Italian woman sleeping with Germans (and married Italian men) during World War II. At the end of the movie, she is horribly attacked by the townswomen, as the men sheepishly look on.

Now, prostitutes in many countries are looked down upon, particularly in the United States. Why? Okay, moral conservatives will have their obvious reasons. But I think most guys who are not brainwashed, while they would not personally want their daughters to be prostitutes, and might not want their sons dating prostitutes, would otherwise have little moral problem with prostitutes. Okay, we're a skewed group, but I think this applies to most guys I know -- they might not be comfortable with the idea, but they're not morally against it. We all love strippers and porn stars, don't we? So why are prostitutes so vilified? I think it's the women.

I think that prostitutes are recognized, implicitly at least, as a threat to "normal" women. I studied economics, and what it teaches you is that when the supply of something, sex in this case, goes down, the price, dinners and ask-kissing and hand-holding in this case, goes up. Prostitution is illegal in most countries, but enforcement is probably strictest in America. On the other hand, on this board, we are complaining about how American women are the most frigid, gold-digging, opportunistic, self-involved women in the world (I'm not sure that they are, only because I haven't been to every country in the world yet; so far they are looking pretty bad in comparison to Asians, Europeans, and South Americans).

Is there a connection?

Let me spell out the economics again:

Demand = horny men (essentially infinite, and growing with each Viagra-like pill)
Supply = women, prostitutes
Price = fat ass-kissing, P4P

As the supply (prostitutes) goes down, the price (fat ass-kissing) goes up

The unavailability of P4P in America seems directly linked to the ability of American women to ask for so much and give so little in return. If you look at countries where prostitution is virtually legal, like Mexico, the Phillipines, Korea, Japan, Thailand (the countries of which I have personal knowledge), casual sex is also pretty easy, regardless of income level or any other factor. Even in Europe, prostitution is pretty much accepted, and casual sex is also a lot easier than in the U.S. I don't think this is all coincidental.

Maybe Americans are just uptight in general about sex? Or maybe American women know just how well they have it, and are working hard to stamp out P4P so to keep the price of sex high. You decide.

My suggestion is we throw open the immigration doors, visas for young nubile young women from all countries, AIDS check in advance, here are some free condoms as you step aboard the plane, welcome to America, you have six months (or a year) of making mongers happy before you are up for renewal, and be sure to pay special attention to all the disgruntled patrons of the wsg (at least those who are trapped in the Virgin Vault of America).

God Bless America.

Sinanju Master

10-26-04, 00:35

I don't think any of us truly wants "perfection" in a mate, 'cos then they would have no room to improve and develop. I remember an episode of the Twilight Zone (I THINK it was that show) where a guy was married to a beautiful actress, but she was so into herself that she would rarely allow him to even touch her. At least she refused to allow HIM to touch her. For example, he tried to kiss her and she fretted about the possibility of her hair getting messed up. A few scenes later, wifey is alone with an adulterous suitor and the guy jokes: "Aren't you afraid of me messing up your hair"? She replied with a sexy smile (as verbatim as I can remember): "Don't you worry about my hair". Hubby gets wind of this and he appropriates a love potion from a quirky old man (Burgess Meredith, I think) and gets wifey to drink it. Wifey then turns out to be the PERFECT WOMAN for hubby to the point that she is CONSTANTLY hanging on him and his every word. The smothering attention gets to be too much for him and he tries to reverse the effects of the potion. He accidentally breaks the vial of the antidote and he is stuck with this clingy woman for the rest of his life. I forgot to mention that the love potion cost the man a mere pittance, but the antidote cost him $1000 AND it was the last of its kind in existence. So kiddies, beware the wish for perfection, 'cos you MAY get it.

Dickhead

10-26-04, 03:25

Deaf mute nymphomaniac childless orphan millionaire who owns a liquor store, four feet tall, no teeth, flat head.

But seriously:

1) Non-smoker (an absolute must for any relationship over two hours)
2) Likes to drink (or she will inevitably get on my case)
3) Well educated (self educated OK within reason)
4) Well travelled or interested in becoming so
5) Weight proportionate to height
6) Exercises regularly (see #5 but also needs some muscle tone)
7) Left of center politically (and VOTES)
8) Not religious
9) Childless or children are grown and INDEPENDENT
10) Good sense of humor (if they can't take a joke, DON'T fuck 'em)
11) Some common interests such as sports; card, word, and board games; reading; hiking; motorcycles; food and cooking, etc.
12) Adventurous, meaning willing to try new things (both in and out of bed)

I can't seem to find even 4 or 5 of those in the United States so I'm searching elsewhere and banging a lot of nice young hookers in the meantime.

Mystic Pimp

10-29-04, 05:00

Saw some stats in some of today's papers. You may find this info online somewhere. The average American man is about 5'9" and weighs about 191 lbs. The average American woman is about 5'4" and weighs about 165 lbs.

In relation to this part of the forum, does that make anyone alter their concept of their ideal woman? Or does it stay the same, and you realistically just have a lower pool of women that you would be willing to choose from?

One weekly paper I read today had someone give the opinion that Americans are more fat conscious than Europeans when it comes to the foods that we eat, and Americans are more obsessed with weight. Europeans are less picky, yet they as a whole are slimmer than Americans.

Sinanju Master

10-29-04, 20:19

MP, If THAT is the AVERAGE height and weight of an American woman, then my purpose is all but CEMENTED regarding finding a mate in the opposite sex. Thankfully, I'm 6'2 and 220, but admittedly (I never once even remotely claimed I was an Adonis) I have a few pounds more to go before I rid myself of the spare tire. Actually, I have two good reasons to get rid of it: 1] Chicks just plain dig a well-developed abdomen and 2] I'm training to fight in the international competition of the Pankration by the end of next year if I can pass the physical.

I briefly read an article in a major newspaper that said that as a nation, since 1960, we are TALLER, but also FATTER. In answer to your question/comment about reassessing one's stanfards, yes and no. Yes, I have to adjust it to the fact that IF I want to focus on the bikini-clad Barbie Doll, I have to have high standards AND compete FIERCELY for said Barbie, OR I can readjust my standards a bit lower/more realistically and cast a wider net that would ensure more frequent success sooner. I've seen supermodel types who are totally ugly on the inside due to their arrogance which stems from being spoiled by the salivating male masses, and I've seen regular-looking chicks who are modest enough to let their inner beauty ooze to the surface. Unfortunately, I've found that the second type is more scarce than the first, AND there is the issue of unbridled materialism due to our culture.

Excuse me while I pack my bags...

Travis Bickle 2

10-29-04, 20:48

I was reading an article in the paper a while back about dating services here in the States. They were talking to the founder of Great Expectations about what women (and men) were looking for in each other. Although the women prefered their men to be tall and heighth and weight proporionate, she said it was WAY easier to find a date for a short guy who was fifty pounds overweight than it was to hook someone up with an attractive smoker.

She said it was the most common "must have" on everyone's profile. If someone was a smoker they wouldn't even consider a first date.

Sporadic

10-30-04, 15:26

Civ2000,

Just for fun, why don´t we post the following on "Great expectations?"

WM, 50, 70Lbs. overweight, heavy smoker, heavy drinker, lousy cholesterol, Dot-Com millionaire. Seeks 25 yo perfect sex kitten.

I would be willing to bet that there woud be no dearth of female applicants for this guy´s affection. ;)

Travis Bickle 2

10-30-04, 18:14

I agree, you'd have the little gold-diggers lined up around the block, particularly if they thought he might croak soon.

Sinanju Master

10-30-04, 20:38

Hey guys! I just read your proposal and I seriously think it should be carried out for experimentation's sake! Also, offer a pic in order to show JUST how "integrity-challenged" the barracudas are. If you agree with this, or if you wanna wait and get more guys on board with this idea, lemme know.

Sporadic

10-30-04, 23:14

SM,Civ2K,

I could provide a picture, but even posing as a millionaire we may have to do some retouching ;)

Seriously, if you want to do this, and I think it would make the definitive post in this section, send me a PM and we will make it happen.

Damn, this sounds like fun! :)

Cheers,

Sporadic

Sporadic

11-03-04, 10:39

I registered at a couple dating services. Can you imagine? There seem to be quite a few 25-30YO VERY good looking (to judge from the online snaps anyway) young ladies who are willing to focus on the "whole person" rather than just some traits.

Traits listed include: Age 51, Divorced, 5´10", 280lbs., heavy smoker, heavy drinker. Oh, and also "financially independent" after striking it rich during the "dot-com" boom.

Is there anyone out there who is really surprised by this "research?"

Before I have to duck the incoming brickbats, I did NOT enter into any correspondence with any of these persons. Just relating the contacts that arrived.

As a control, I registered another persona with most of the same characteristics (I did make this one 7 years younger) but put his income level at 24k per year. This poor guy has yet to get any contacts. Go figure!

Cheers,

Sporadic

Ps. No, I will not be posting any of the girl´s names, photos or even the service they were on. It was interesting as an exercise, but I have no desire to humiliate anyone personally.

Sinanju Master

11-04-04, 00:42

Good work, Agent Sporadic! LOL I can understand not revealing the info provided by the ladies, but how about posting their REPLIES to give us a glimpse into their heads and to actually confirm our suspicions? Also, what was the bio that you provided for the Fatty Millionaire, or was what you posted previously everything that the ladies saw?

Sporadic

11-04-04, 12:40

SM,

The profile was as you see it, with a whole bunch of "Do you like?" kind of radio buttons.

I clicked only the sedentary of things, plus travel.

The responses were nothing special, there were no super-flirty "you are the one for me" kind of things, they seemed to be canned, "Hi, I saw your profile and wanted to introduce myself... I am happy, fun, Blah blah blah. You get the idea.

I suppose the interesting thing is that a nearly identical profile, sans the big bucks, has so far attracted ZERO contacts. I guess being rich gives you at least a 16:1 advantage when looking for a mate. Again, no surprises here either.

Actually, this dating service thing seems pretty depressing to me, way more strange than some of the people we bump into on this forum for example. Seriously sad in many cases. Oh well.

Agent Sporadic (retired)

PsyberZombie

11-04-04, 13:01

It's kind of Axiomatic that women who are using a Dating Service are Gold·diggers , Agent Sporadic

If you *really* want to meet some Anna Nicole Wanna·be's , though = try some of those Russian or Asian 'Mail Order Bride' Sites

One of the things that surprises me most about American Women is how many of the Hot young ones don't seek to capitalize on their Looks while they have them

Haven't you ever walked into some business where they pay $7 an hour , and seen some absolutely *stunning* chick employed, and either said or thought =

" WTF are YOU doing working HERE ??!!?? "

Fer Ex = there's a Dunkin' Donuts about a mile from here where there's this gal working who could be a Playboy Center·fold if she just sent in her photos

It's not like this chick doesn't get a LOT of great 'feed·back' , either = this place is right across the street from a Fire Station , and believe me , that's the most over·caffeinated , hyped·up bunch of fire·fighters you're ever gonna meet !!

Sporadic

11-04-04, 15:07

PZombie
It's kind of Axiomatic that women who are using a Dating Service are Gold·diggers , Agent Sporadic I disagree. The vast majority made me kind of sad. In fact, what I thought was going to be a hoot, left me feeling slightly dirty. I just do not see the relationship between using a dating service and being a gold digger.

There were the sharks, like I think we all suspected, but the vast majority were just slightly pitiful.

As for the "donut" girl, beauty is where you find it. I think many "stunning" girls do not see themselves as such, self confidence being an important part of any truly "successful" career.

Barring a very STR or P4P situation, being stunning is just not enough for me.

As for the mail order brides, while there are surely lots of sharks in those waters, there are probably lots of ladies who would just like to live in better circumstances. In my travels I have run into dozens of them like that, not sharks, but looking for a better life. YMMV. If you travel to some lesser developed countries, I think you might appreciate this point. I know I did. It is hard, for a 1st worlder to imagine the circumstances under which a large proportion of the world population live

Cheers,

(just plain old) Sporadic

Skelelton Sled

11-07-04, 13:54

There is a Great web site(pm me fr it) and belive me. I I don't belive in anything! Is how to attract woman any woman. If it works once youyr changed! I did it from the small set of samples(since I'm cheap) and it worked 9so far on 3 girls) It varies in age groups the funniest Thing the late to late 20''s and early 30's its more of a wow my time is going down! Nice GUYS DO FINSISH LAST! Most american girls are disjointed and messed up-fubar!

don't BUY GIRLS ANYTHING-don't INPRESS.

aw-have a habit of asking The turn off questions first!

What kind of car, what kind of money, do You rent or own?

I have 3 girls eating out my hand, Aw have a habbit of dealing with so many men offereing anything, every day! she will lose interest, just talk normal stuff! ACT LIKE YOU JUST don't CARE! Hey really, in all reality what do you have to lose anyhow, one missed date! Maybe headaches later on maybe SOME DRAMA, you knew was coming! Play games, GIRLS love games there is a art to it! belive me, I have my short comming's and all and if it works for me, it can work for you. belive me, I'm the biggest skeptic and I don't belive in stuff. But I honestly think it works. No nice guys some reason AW love mean guys. like again do Your homework and read! You can make $24k-$250k and no matter IF YOU GET THAT POWER, like you just don't care they flock to you, You change. people will raditate to you. what Really [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)'s girls off the most when a girl you just met say's "ohhh gosh I like you, your so funny" say back yah, I like myself to and I know I'm funny! Girls love a sense of humour! belive me!

As for SW's. There is one advice: its paramount in all and thats the Gift of laugh You make any Girl laugh you become a super star! Trust, no matter who it may be a girl will always be deemed the loveable mother type, Gotta protect gotta serve. (you can even win a SW heart)(not recomended)Yes there is a nice way and theres asshole way! For some reason

I found girls like hot and cold. GIRLS HATE TO BE TURNED DOWN. REALLY how many girls are ever turned down! Theres more girls then men, and girls say hey, its like a job, there is always someone to take your place!

Hey think about it this way most american Girls are disjointed, misinformed screwed up, dealing with baggage of some sort, have some set idears what a man should do and can do, and try to get the best out of it! coupon shopping ===================================================

As for russian, asian, latina mail things_There are alot of sharks, then again alot of Hot looking woman and most of those pics are from other sites and they could be long gone, married, and etc. There some real one's That really want marriage, That want Love and try But serious that takes on a whole new aspect of dateing! You have to really place hard work, Thought process and Many hours of work, dealing with many barriers and not to mention $5k- to maybe more. Plus no saying you may get scamed and By the way, not to mention maybe being hurt and down. It works but if you go down that route be extra carefull. Plus there are some hot looking girls that would flaw any girl around your town. which leads to more attention from other girls, Tempting

===================================================

As for dateing sites: really how many are legit? really how many have girl's/lady's willing to meet, yes some are there for meeting and having fun, some mean well! just hanging around for the super star man! THOSE girls are out of whack WHAT great guy makes $250, 000 a year maybe more, works 60 hours a week and drives 2 cars and has a house worth $450k in the burbs, has time for her, he has his freinds, he has his own climate of space. he deals with many things in a day, what is he going to log on to a dateing service, and be whoa, wow I'm floored, he will be TURNED OFF, THE FIRST SIGHT OF NUTSO CRAZZY antics played by most girls, and be out of there like any other person male or female. yes some are legit, some mean well, some really intend To hook you up!

But look at this way, In this day and age of modern tech, dateing sites are now some what of "in" hey sick when you come to think of it, when go back 4-5 years ago, and that was taboo. Look at it this way, there are so many dateing sites out there, Its a cash cow and it's bigg now, it could be the dot com boom of The late 90's. each Sunday check Out your papermsee how many personals are in there by men and woman, Not many compared to the middle 90's. rember telephone chat lines, there fadeing quick and some are free

But your dealing with alot of Inmature, again disjointed females and other element you wouldnt be seen with! Yes its a supply and demand era we live in it's simple to work a computer who needs paper or the phone when you can see images stream lineing on Your monitor, look at web cams and digi's There price droped, so its simple and easy and now there is many ave's one male can go through. Then again if Things don't work oUt you still have us at WSG

Thank you, sorry for the long post.

Rock Dog

11-13-04, 19:00

Hey there guys,

It's interesting to see all the recent discussion about online dating. my own experience in this area is that the same rules apply.

1. Most of the good ones are taken. This means the ones you're running into are likely to be desperate, unattractive, picky or loaded down with "baggage".

2. Supply and demand is in full effect. If you want a really good one, how great are you? Do you have any qualities that set you above the rest of the pack?

3. Take your time. Even online you can get a feel for what someone is really like. Just do "chit-chat" for a couple of weeks. Then slowly work your way into some more personal questions. What she chooses not to answer can sometimes tell you more than what she does say.

4. Try post a duplicate profile. If a girl starts telling you "you're the only one", send her an interest from the other profile. If she goes for it, she probably has 10 or 20 other guys that she's stringing along too. Note of caution, women know this trick also!

There was this one time I wanted to see what my competition was up to. I had my own profile posted and was doing OK, but I thought maybe some of the other guys on the site might know some things that I didn't. So I posted a profile in the ladies' section using a pic I downloaded from another dating site 2 years earlier. I had saved this girls pic because she had the most awesome set of tits.

Long story short, just about every single guy on the site must have written a reply. I couldn't believe the effect that those titties were having! Most of these guys were trying to be smooth, but you could feel the eagerness oozing out of every single e-mail. This is why I believe that 90% of all men out there are truly desperate for some good looking pu**y. And trust me, 100% of the good looking women know it.

Rock

Skelelton Sled

11-15-04, 20:12

Online dateing: sorry guy's most of the girls, like the previous poster has stated " Most of the good ones are taken. This means the ones you're running into are likely to be desperate, unattractive, picky or loaded down with "baggage".

That statement is 100% correct, its simple I tried things out on a girl, call me sleezy call me cold, But hey its a dog eat dog world! The truth of the matter is Most girls want a bastard of a man, a a$$hole, a guy whom will Tie em up and beat them! (I've never did that, but thats what they want) sorry its the truth! I tried the the mean over bearing part.

The total shmuck of a man. Then went soft and lost most of my contacts even had a first in my life, was told after you I'm done with men, if it doesnt work out! Then to find she is crusieing the net hard on every single chat rooms, dateing services out on the web its was crazy, she was my crazziest one so far! see a good wise freind once told me, Hey all girls are sluts you have to Treat them with low class, and use mind games and they love you That last one, threw a phone and started crying and was turning things around so much, it was incredible. All cause I layed it on her, the truth! I learned girls wnat liars, cheaters, scandals, and drama They live for the drama In there life, so they can tell there freinds, he does this, he does that and well. NO girl wants to hear "your like a job, there is more applications in human resoures" Take that approach and You will see your stock rise 50% rember these are the girls your not ever gonna marry! NEVER BE A NICE GUY TO A SQUARE GIRL! A square girl is useing tickery to the highest amount, funny how we look down on what were hear for on this board. But yet squares play more of a game, then what we look for, at least we know what were getting up front. Wine, dine, flowers, cards, gifts, plays and movies will not ensure a bbj(maybe poor) at that best! maybe a squirt, squirt hear, I don't do this! hahahah and your left frustrated, and instincts take over and say I gotta try harder! thats the problem, we try harder for girls, whom are man haters!

If she says she doesnt do that sorta stuff Hahahha multiply that by 75% she does it! If she says I'm the best at that she is mentally messed up and needs assureance by daddy! she will do it the greatest at first or lose all interrest! Most "squares" are mind players and use men! withh SW's and dancers, you know upfront your getting something for something! plus you can get them too. Thats another mental warfare!

Mystic Pimp

11-20-04, 04:21

I agree with the recent posts regarding personal ads and stuff. Men out there need to be selfish. Think about how any particular female will help YOUR needs, and success will follow. This has been working out for me for the past few months. For those of you who are single, I can't think of a good reason to settle down with just one woman.

MP

Smut Villain

11-20-04, 08:43

Mystic Pimp, et al;

I wouldn't go so far as to say women are evil (though it is tempting)- after all, we're still trying to sleep with them!

Actually, the problem is that this whole dating thing is pretty much a game, and it always was; the "scam" happens because (1) no one ever bothered to tell the men any of the rules of this game we didn't even know we were playing, though they still expect us to play along; and (2) by not letting men know what's REALLY going on, the women maintain an "edge" over us- we react like bumbling idiots, and the girls let us naturally weed ourselves out (while taking advantage of the less fortunate guys along the way). By the time us men even realize that we have been collectively getting played this whole time, the women have already been running this scam for several years.

The "game" doesn't stop once you get married, either- instead, it turns into some sort of sneaky, surrepititious power grab. She'll eventually end up "wearing the pants" in your house by using her pussy as a weapon (for that matter she was probably doing that while you were dating her). This could be the very reason why you see guys turning to P4P or (like myself) committing to staying single; either they just want a "time out" (P4P) or they don't want to play the stupid games anymore (and therefore stay single).

I don't know if this explains your motivation, but it surely explains mine.

Dickhead

11-20-04, 09:07

The US has about a 50/50 ratio of men to women. In Latin America, men emigrate in search of work; get killed in traffic accidents, industrial accidents, and fights; and generally fall by the wayside. So, the supply of pussy exceeds demand by a significant factor. Thus, pussy can no longer be a weapon but rather must be bartered in exchange for hard currency. I do not take a position on which is a "better" situation but from the standpoint of a horny guy, I prefer the Latin American situation.

The other night a friend and I were eating in a restaurant here in Buenos Aires and two American women tourists walked in. Cameras around the neck, inappropriate clothing, the whole deal. One was a fat frosted "blond" and the other, while not fat, had an overall appearance that was not at all feminine. So they walk in and start loud talking in English to the non-English speaking waiters. Finally they sit down next to us. We are well into our meal. The non-fat one gets up, comes over, interrupts me in mid-bite and says, "You speak English; what is that you are eating?" I proceeded to tell her in Spanish what the dish was and she just looked at me. So then I told her in English that it was a casserole with rice and fish.

"EEEEW fish I don't eat that." While holding her nose and waving her hand back and forth. I told her that it was very good and that this was a Chilean restaurant that specialized in fish and that if she wanted meat there were other better places. She said, "Oh really? Where?" I said, "I don't care but anywhere but here." She sat down in a huff and I said to my friend, "You see why I hate white people?" Then they asked for an English menu and when they were told there wasn't one, they left.

Fuck these asexual whales.

Joe Zop

11-20-04, 14:54

Nice story, DH, but with all due respect I've encountered many American men overseas who are every bit the idiotic tourist jerks these women were.

Rock Dog

11-20-04, 18:28

DH,

You're right about the 50/50 ratio of men to women here. It's also true that there are more women than men in South America, but I don't think that explains the difference in how they look/act.

It's a different culture down there. Much more traditional and, in many ways, much more conservative than it is here. Very few latinas that I know would ever consider acting in such a rude manner in public.

The fact that those 2 women came in without any male company doesn't surprise me at all. We may have 50/50 men to women here, but if you subtract the fat/ugly/lesbian/psycho/feminazis from the equation, we come up waayy short.

A smart man will leave these "asexual whales" alone to themselves. It's ironic that she hates white people, since she herself is apparently such an excellent example.

Rock

Sinanju Master

11-20-04, 22:06

Yeah, those broads typify the "Ugly American" and whenever I'm in public overseas, I try to lay low if I see a fellow American unless I've already scoped out their behavior.

Skelelton Sled

11-21-04, 00:49

Hi all,

Just off Topic.To all mongers liveing far and near in the states. Young old
it doesnt matter your input is paramount to this question and will greatly be apricated. Okay on your mongering feats I would assume most guys have came across a white girl whom spoke street,down right nasty ghettho, hard core! Maybe more Younger male's have encounted not to say old didn't.

But whats your feelings when a white girl is ghettho?

Wicked SH

11-21-04, 00:56

I did online dating for a while. It is part of the reason I decided to become an expat. If I was honest I received no replies. I did some studies to find out what actually worked. It was always the same. You either had to be really good looking or say you are very wealthy. (Which you have to prove because they don't want cheap dates if you say you have money.)

My methods were to post a profile and a personal. Wait for a week to see how many replies it received. I tried all types, the bad biker boy to preppy, from poor to rich, fat to skinny, and good looking to ugly. I then used photo's of old friends from other parts of the country or from clip art / web sites.

The only sets that received any replies were the profiles with a really good looking guy or some mention of significant wealth. IE I own a high end jewelry store. Or I have 5 bars. Or retired independantly wealthy 30 year old.

By far the good looking jewelry store owner had the most replies. I never finished reading them. There were hundreds from all over the world. The wealthy profiles received more than good looking poor guys who were better than well off average guys. The average looking guy with witty post and above average income would receive a few replies maybe one to five per week.

If you want a good laugh and some ideas post a profile/personal as a attractive girl. You have a picture of a cousin or friend that is old and doesn't look like them any more. Wow it makes the wealthy jewelry store profile seem pathetic. Hundreds or even thousands of replies.

What was really amazing about those replies was how many one line replies there were. "Hi I'm Joe 'Lame ass' Shmuck send me a reply if interested." I mean I'm not a casanova but even I realize a reply like that will be round filed before a hare can finish screwing a rabbit. (Which for those of you who don't know is *Very Fast*)

The scary thing is how many men reply to womans post. The ratio is all screwed up. If a woman receives hundreds of replies every week and she only picks maybe five or ten to meet a week until she lands the wealth attractive guy. It ends up the normal guys get ignored because women don't look at the big picture. The reality is the guys who are good looking or wealthy take full advantage of these stupid girls. The girls usually don't think wow I received hundreds of replies most of these wealth/good looking guys have to be messing around with many women. They think "I'm a princess and everyone can see it." Their narcicism can't allow them to see they are no better than prositutes. They focused on wealth/looks instead of looking for a person who is compatible to spend life with.

After trying online dating / meeting through normal routes for awhile I gave up on American Women. They are mostly the w**** word we can't use on this site. They value wealth over beauty and the dream world over reality.

Dickhead

11-21-04, 01:26

JZ, yeah, plenty of ugly American men out there but they would not go "EEEEEeeeeew FISH" which was my point. RD I am the one who said they hated white people, not the woman tourist. That was sort of a joke between my friend and I as we are both white but he had just got done telling a story about how when he was a counselor in the Navy this black guy came to see him and said he had a problem, and that the problem was he wanted to kill all white people. So my friend got him a discharge but was never sure if the dude was just playing him or was really violent.

Today an Argentinean woman asked me if Diet Coke ("Coca Lite" down here) was popular in the US and I said yes. She asked, "Then why are so many American women so fat?" I said I did not have an answer for that.

Sinanju Master

11-21-04, 02:37

A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THAT WAS A FUCKING CLASSIC! Really, look at it. It's like a child asking an innocent question that puts the onus on the person in question and said person (the American Women who are busted) has no answer.

Joe Zop

11-21-04, 05:44

Maybe not, DH, but I've heard a number of male tourists say, "Uck, don't you serve hamburgers or pizza instead?" Point taken on the story, but it's also not like American men always have everything to boast about as far as being culturally sensitive travellers. Personally, I've seen too many jerks of both genders.

The Coke Light story, though, is a good one. (BTW, do they put all the US-banned additives in down there? I know they do in some places in the Caribbean and Africa...)

PsyberZombie

11-21-04, 15:49

Here's an interesting take on American Women , especially when compared to their Thai counter·parts

[ "Farang" is Thai for a Foreigner , especially a White Foreigner ]

Farang men often fall madly in love with the first Thai girl they meet – even if she’s a rough street prostitute who doesn’t speak English. Love-sick farang men are queuing up at the altar to tie the knot with their dubious Thai mail-order brides but why don’t farang girls stir their passions in the same way?

Thai girls and farang girls could hardly be more different. Put simply, Thai girls are family-orientated and farang girls are increasingly career-orientated. In America, 44% of women aged 15 to 44 have chosen to remain childless and the trend is gathering pace. It’s easy to understand their point of view because, as men, we’ve always pursued our ambitions.

Farang girls enjoy opportunities that their Thai sisters can only dream about. In many ways, life in the West has never been better but it doesn’t seem to have translated into greater human happiness. We are witnessing an epidemic of relationship breakdown. Western men and women seem increasingly ill-matched and unhappy. Statistics reveal that dissatisfied western wives are divorcing their husbands in ever-increasing numbers and they can’t seem to find suitable replacements either. Does this mean that we farang fellas are all useless?

No, of course it doesn’t and I’m going to explain why. Despite the far-reaching changes in western society, the underlying attitudes of men and women remain broadly the same. Men still have a provider mentality and women still have an entitlement mentality. Men have always been attracted by youth and beauty and women have always been attracted by wealth and status. Inevitably, the mismatch between our utopian aspirations and the situation on the ground has created problems.

For the sake of his self-esteem, a man needs to be the breadwinner. Taking on the domestic role makes him feel like a failure. Women, on the other hand, feel uncomfortable in the role of provider. A woman would quickly lose respect for any man who appeared to be living off her. Women still feel entitled to a partner more successful than themselves. Consequently, the more successful a woman becomes, the harder it is to find someone suitable.

On the face of it, men are more easily satisfied. All a man needs is a girl who is cute and kind-hearted. Career status is unimportant – it’s her personal qualities that count. He needs to be her protector and hero. A brash career-orientated woman will never excite a man’s passion. If she’s pretty, he might humour her for long enough to get into her pants but a long-term relationship is unlikely to succeed.

Women who don’t touch a guy’s heart but who have soaring expectations are never going to find husbands. Men seeking unconditional love and respect from aggressive ladettes are never going to find wives. As a result, more people than ever are living lonely single lives between brief affairs. Throughout the western world, we are seeing explosive growth in the number of single person households. In the US, for example, census data reveals that the number of single person households grew by 14% between 1991 and 2001. An unhappy world of selfish people living alone is now becoming reality.

Returning to the original question, I think that many farang men fall madly in love with a random Thai bar girl because they’ve never met a truly feminine woman before. Men feel a deep need to care for these needy fallen angels and to receive affection in return. Even when the affection is insincere, the compulsion is so great that few farang guys can resist. Thai girls play the role perfectly. They wield a power over men that their farang sisters have forgotten how to use.

Sky Dumont

11-21-04, 19:10

Skelelton Sled

11-22-04, 19:00

Hi-it would be crazy for me to write this message In all cities and states!
I leave it here to be diguested the question!

Ok mongers-I have this question,This question isnt limited to one age group but may be taken that way! Ok what do you think when a american "white girl" on the street is speaking all Ghettho,gangster and what not?

How do you feel about this sort of thing? You may be shocked and like thrown for a loop "am i in some cosmic dream?" lol

One can be expected From a latina or bsw-but from a white as day,whiter then me chica doing that?

Is that a age,race,sorta action taken by the girl?

Also do you like that? is that tolarable to a certain amount of time before your like enough of the Eneimen act?

Rock Dog

11-23-04, 04:50

PZ

I enjoyed reading your post. It outines the differences quite well. If you think about it, you could substitute almost any different nationality for Thai (eg. Vietnamese, Brasilian, Latina, African, Caribbean etc.) and your post would still make sense.

We often think of the women here as somehow being normal. They kind of suck, but still we think of them as being average. Then, when we encounter women from one of these other areas of the world, we are struck by how wonderful they seem in comparison. That's the way women are supposed to be! We've been deprived of natural female companionship for so long, it's no surprise so many guys are falling for these women.

I should know, it almost happened to me on my first trip a few years back. Lucky for me, my love of variety saved me from making a dumb mistake :D.

Rock

Smut Villain

11-25-04, 01:09

Skeleton Sled:

You know, there are guys like that, too. It's like they all wished they were Black.

Until the cops show up.

Rock Dog

11-25-04, 01:52

they are like that because they don't have any unique, original or interesting qualities of their own. what do they see when they look in the mirror? a boring, ho-hum average white girl.

so what do they do? they imitate black people because thats who they see in the movies and on tv all the time. trying to be cool by acting like someone else (which is the ultimate proof that you aren't).

eminem is a good example, and so is justin timberlake. he's always trying to sound black when he talks. except for that time on punk'd, when he thought the irs was coming to confirep001e all his stuff. he was so scared, he forgot to keep talking "black". thats when he showed everyone what a scared little sissy-boy he really is.

what's even more scary, you can go to other countries now and see the young people there are going hip-hop. i've seen guys in zambia wearing nba t-shirts and trying to act like rappers. ah well.

rock

Latina Addict

11-25-04, 03:12

Simply said, and of course generally speaking. Gringas, (American women), are really: FWOVT, which means: Fucking Waste Of Vaginal Tissue. Yes, not all, but enough for this Latina Addict to systematically write off them all off as a group. Period.

Latina Addict

Sporadic

11-25-04, 07:54

S-Sled
Ok what do you think when a American "white girl" on the street is speaking all Ghettho,gangster and what not? I got my "hip hop wake up call" about ten years ago when I ran into a young lad from Texas, who was affecting the rapper talk and enjoying his urban hip hop.

I guess my generation expects Texans to like country music or possibly ZZTop, not Ice Cube.

I think hip hip has become pretty mainstream in the last decade, and really do not see anything out of the ordinary that youth adopt this style. It is no more strange than the late 70's punk rockers in Indiana.

What I get a kick out of is the lily-white Europeans who also adopt the attitude of oppressed urban black youth. Nothing like a Danish homey!

Before I go and put down what they are doing today, I only have to look back in the photo album to how silly I looked with serious bell-bottom jeans and a tie-dyed t-shirt. ;)

Cheers,

Sporadic

Darius34

11-25-04, 16:46

Hey guys,

I have been reading these forums and I think that many of the posts are right on point. I do have to comment on the "Black thing" because its something thats been bothering me. First let me say that I am a professional African male, lawyer, and live here in NYC. I make a decent living and am reasonably good looking. Until I started reading this board, I dated exculsively professional black women, all of who made just as much or more money than me. I am telling you that you have not seen a more fucked up woman than a professinal black woman. I will bet anyone on this. You hear much about the paucity of eligible black men in America. That is misleading. There may be a disproportionate number of black men institutiionalized, but that does not expian why most black women are single. They are single becaue the men that they were previousl with, can't take it anymore. Halle Berry is a good example.Why would anyone chest on someone as beautiful as her? I will tell you why. Because somewhere along the line, her husband came to the conclusion that despite all her good looks, that she was not worth it. He could not take it so he went out and found someone else. its what we all do. Imagine the situation being so bad, that you have to give up pussy like that. And yet, thas exactly what happend and what is happeneing to all of us. I now have my dominican girl in the DR and now just fly back and forth. With respect to the white girl thing, when a white woman speaks ebonics, it is the stupidist thing I have ever heard. Does she not realize that we find this offensive and that she looks like an ass? Why the hell cant she just epak english? This facination with hop hop culture among non African Americans is so inauthentic so as to be a joke in my opinion. While I am venting here, you hip hop knuckle heads who are starting to invade Sosua, please go back home. Before you know it, the place will start to look like 125th St on a Saturday afternoon. Enough said.

Dickhead

11-25-04, 18:20

Actually Wicked SH, a hare would not screw a rabbit. They are totally different species. Hares have long pointy ears and are all jacked up in the back. Rabbits have small floppy ears. Hares sort of hop very fast while rabbits more scurry. Hares are larger and live above ground. Almost all rabbits are burrowers. Rabbits are born hairless, blind, and helpless. Not so with hares. So, "Bugs Bunny" is actually a misnomer as he is a hare. Jack"rabbits" are also hares, in fact, not rabbits. Perhaps this has led to your confusion. Check out this website:

http://www.42explore.com/rabbits.htm

Hope that helps.

Wicked SH

11-26-04, 03:13

Thanks for the biology lesson. You know more about rabbit sex than I. I vote we crown DH king of rabbit sex. You post gave me a good laugh while reading, it was truely unexpected.

The reference I used comes from an old joke. 'How long is a hare on a rabbits ass? (snap your fingers) about that long.'

As to hip hop. I have converted my heavy metal ways to hip hop. I must implore everyone to learn how to dance to hip hop. There is nothing like going to Tokyo, Hong Kong, Shanghai and getting grinded by some hot young asian girl. Not to mention some of these girls dance so sexy you won't need the little blue pill for a week. It is a way better time than the techno or trance beat bunnies that just hop up and down.

(I hope everybody gets the joke. Yes dickhead I remember you said hares hop bunnies burrow. It just doesn't sound as good.)

Sporadic

11-29-04, 18:17

Darius34
I am telling you that you have not seen a more fucked up woman than a professinal black woman.Could I add "American" to your professional black woman comment? ;)

The problems with "American women" transcend all other factors; race, creed, politics, you name it.

Cheers,

Sporadic

Buzz00

12-02-04, 20:55

Rockdog I can only say this ...I am one of those that have been deprived of what you call natural female companionship, working in a place where suicide bombings are more the norm than the exception.

I took my 1st trip down Thai way 2 months ago, due to a serious terror alert in a place that I had intended to take my vacation and what can I say, I am converted.

Fortunately I did not lose my head and neither my other head - What saved me was I did not like this in-your-face-welcum-and-f*ck-me, but as Arnold says hasta la vista.....I definitely will be back.

Buzz

Bart9000

12-04-04, 07:16

Hi All,

I have been working on a theory that recently that American Women are as they are (egocentric, spoiled, obnoxious, etc), in large part because of the prohibition on prostitution in the United States. I have read (I believe on one of the South American boards, possibly Bueno's Aires) that in countries where "another girl" is readily available for a reasonable price and no hassles, girls don't put out nearly as much crap as they do here, because they know that they can be easily replaced, at least for short term purposes. What do you guys think?

After all, it only makes sense-when you have a (quasi) monopoly on an asset, you get to dictate the terms under which you will deliver said asset.

"Bart"

Rock Dog

12-04-04, 21:28

Buzz 04,

Terror alert? hmmmmmm, you weren't going to Bali by any chance? Just a guess.

Anyways, here's todays thought. When a monger goes to Thailand (or anywhere else) and falls for a hooker over there, what does that say about the women here?

Rock

Latina Addict

12-06-04, 04:45

Hey Bart, you hit it on the head.

My 2 cents is a suggestion for another very appropriate acronym. "FWOVT" Meaning, the true definition of American women "Fucking Waste Of Vaginal Tissue" Nuff said.

Latina Addict

Rock Dog

12-06-04, 06:35

Hey there Bart9000,

I think you're on track with the point you made in your recent post. It's all about supply and demand. Women here have the supply (well, most of it) and the men have the demand. Therefore the vaginal commodity has a high perceived value and we as men go to great lengths to gain access to it.

There's more to it than that however. Let's face it, in most large cities there's no shortage of prostitutes, escorts, MPs etc. available for us to get what we want. The biggest problem is how this activity is perceived by part (and only part) of our society. If a guy goes in for that sort of thing in South America, it's pretty much his business. He won't be admired for it, but he won't be shunned by society either.

Up here, people seem to get right fucking crazy over the idea that 2 people might want to trade sex for money. This results in so-called "law enforcement" to attempt to eliminate the problem. It's really just a form of harassment and probably a cash grab as well what with fines and seizing cars and all.

Part of this attitude is based on religious attitudes. Another part is women not wanting the competition. But I think the biggest part of it is jealousy. There's a bunch of sexually repressed assholes (male and female) out there stuck in boring, passionless relationships who hate the idea that someone else is out there having a good time.

As a mostly male-dominated society we probably have a hard time with unrestrained female sexuality as well. The idea that a woman can use her sex to make money off of us (thus achieving some form of control) is subconciously irritating to a lot of men.

It's really funny because most women operate on the prostitution principle anyways. They make sure they get some benefits from the guy, then reward him with the pleasure of their company. It doesn't have to be that way, but that's how it is for most of us.

Rock

Mike12

12-06-04, 11:10

Bankrupt guy in NYC hits the lottery for 120 million after playing his last dollar during his break parking cars. Dude was penniless and owed everyone. Wife threw him out long time ago. Coincidentally got back with wifey a day before he won and everything is all good. Now she wants a divorce and half the dough! Now he might not get the first payout because she filed papers to get at the money. In the meantime he quit his job and is living in a hotel with his nephew.

Anyone notice the looks (besides the pretty ones) on the faces of these pro-athletes wifes when they are in a photo. A-Rods wife got that Medusa turn you to stone look that says "It's not A-Rod the 180 million dollar player" but, it's A-Rod the $90 million man and his wife the $90 million sophisticated woman. Now, if they were not married to these sports millionaires would they have that look? Not hatin but just wondering if I'm seeing things.

And whats' up with this Paris Hilton? Does the chick have no shame? I don't mind looking at her, but damn, talk about some disgraceful activities! Seen her picture on the window of an x-rated shop for some porno with her in it. She don't even need the money to be conducting herself like a trick. But then all that shit is cool nowadays, just watch MTV.

PsyberZombie

12-06-04, 12:51

RockDog asks =

When a monger goes to Thailand (or anywhere else) and falls for a hooker over there, what does that say about the women here?

It speaks Volumes , RD

Allow me to repeat my·self [ the following was originally posted here on 11-21 ] ==>

Here's an interesting take on American Women , especially when compared to their Thai counter·parts

[ "Farang" is Thai for a Foreigner , especially a White Foreigner ]

Farang men often fall madly in love with the first Thai girl they meet – even if she’s a rough street prostitute who doesn’t speak English. Love-sick farang men are queuing up at the altar to tie the knot with their dubious Thai mail-order brides but why don’t farang girls stir their passions in the same way?

Thai girls and farang girls could hardly be more different. Put simply, Thai girls are family-orientated and farang girls are increasingly career-orientated. In America, 44% of women aged 15 to 44 have chosen to remain childless and the trend is gathering pace. It’s easy to understand their point of view because, as men, we’ve always pursued our ambitions.

Farang girls enjoy opportunities that their Thai sisters can only dream about. In many ways, life in the West has never been better but it doesn’t seem to have translated into greater human happiness. We are witnessing an epidemic of relationship breakdown. Western men and women seem increasingly ill-matched and unhappy. Statistics reveal that dissatisfied western wives are divorcing their husbands in ever-increasing numbers and they can’t seem to find suitable replacements either. Does this mean that we farang fellas are all useless?

No, of course it doesn’t and I’m going to explain why. Despite the far-reaching changes in western society, the underlying attitudes of men and women remain broadly the same. Men still have a provider mentality and women still have an entitlement mentality. Men have always been attracted by youth and beauty and women have always been attracted by wealth and status. Inevitably, the mismatch between our utopian aspirations and the situation on the ground has created problems.

For the sake of his self-esteem, a man needs to be the breadwinner. Taking on the domestic role makes him feel like a failure. Women, on the other hand, feel uncomfortable in the role of provider. A woman would quickly lose respect for any man who appeared to be living off her. Women still feel entitled to a partner more successful than themselves. Consequently, the more successful a woman becomes, the harder it is to find someone suitable.

On the face of it, men are more easily satisfied. All a man needs is a girl who is cute and kind-hearted. Career status is unimportant – it’s her personal qualities that count. He needs to be her protector and hero. A brash career-orientated woman will never excite a man’s passion. If she’s pretty, he might humour her for long enough to get into her pants but a long-term relationship is unlikely to succeed.

Women who don’t touch a guy’s heart but who have soaring expectations are never going to find husbands. Men seeking unconditional love and respect from aggressive ladettes are never going to find wives. As a result, more people than ever are living lonely single lives between brief affairs. Throughout the western world, we are seeing explosive growth in the number of single person households. In the US, for example, census data reveals that the number of single person households grew by 14% between 1991 and 2001. An unhappy world of selfish people living alone is now becoming reality.

Returning to the original question, I think that many farang men fall madly in love with a random Thai bar girl because they’ve never met a truly feminine woman before. Men feel a deep need to care for these needy fallen angels and to receive affection in return. Even when the affection is insincere, the compulsion is so great that few farang guys can resist. Thai girls play the role perfectly. They wield a power over men that their farang sisters have forgotten how to use.

Dickhead

12-06-04, 16:05

Bart9000 is quoting me when he refers to "in countries where 'another gir' is readily available for a reasonable price and no hassles, girls don't put out nearly as much crap as they do here, because they know that they can be easily replaced, at least for short term purposes." And, I did indeed write that from the Buenos Aires perspective. Here is what a woman down here told me: "If I don't satisfy my man, the neighbor will, or he will go straight to the boliche." Another woman told me, "Here it is normal if you like the man to have sex on the first date. Why wait?" Neither of these women are prostitutes, and I've heard similar things from other women.

Why wait, indeed? In the US there is all this abstinence-based sex education, the religious right babbling about family values, and so forth. But even more so, you have a work-centered culture where in many marriages the partners are both so busy with high stress jobs and long hours and long commutes that they just don't have as much sexual energy. Then you have the problem of women wanting to be just like men. That doesn't happen here.

I opted out of all that. I have a low stress job that doesn't pay that much. I have a small apartment, no car, and few possessions. But I get more ass than a toilet seat! And, I am getting it from young, good looking, feminine women. Dark hair, smooth dark skin, firm round asses ... Sure, there are escort services in the cities in the US but I can't afford them and then you have all the rules like no kissing, no touching my pussy, etc. Plus you have to worry about getting busted (Denny Neagle is in a world of hurt right now). That doesn't happen here, either.

Bart9000

12-08-04, 05:10

It was good to get feedback from you guys. This topic has been on my mind, since I returned from my first trip overseas to Prague. My mind has been reeling from the realization that I (33 year old guy with a deficient wardrobe and 25 pounds of beer belly) could easily there get a beautiful 20 year old girlfriend that isn't obnoxious, flighty, irresponsible (At least not nearly as much as her American counterparts-I didn't once in four days hear anything to the effect of at 150 decibles "OH MY GOD MEGAN ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO HOOK UP WITH TODD AGAIN???!!!!). What is the difference? The theoretical 20 year old czech girl hasn't had her ass kissed multiple times daily since the day her tit's sprouted at age 12 (again, supply and demand, plus lack of bullshit Victorian mores-I'm thinking that a 12 year old boy's aren't terribly excited by their female classmate's budding sexuality when displays of adult female nudity are common, accepted, and "no big deal") and consequently thinks of herself as "just a girl". Currently, I spend most of my time trying to figure out how to get back over to Europe on a permanent basis.

Rock Dog

12-08-04, 15:34

Has anyone here been watching The Apprentice?

It's really worth it if you want to learn a bit about the psychology of todays career woman. They seem to be willing to use their looks, flirting, sexual attractiveness, whatever it takes to win, ie. to get what THEY want.

In fact, if you look at the cover of Maxim magazine, you'll see a couple of them. No doubt posing for some revealing panty pics inside. Hmmmmm, let's see how this works, They take off some of their clothes, in return they get money and a lot of attention. This should sound pretty familiar to us, or maybe I just have an over-active imagination.

Rock

Buzz00

12-08-04, 16:59

Rockdog the terror alert was in the Sinai and this time the alert became reality : Taba Hilton Hotel blown up by truck bomb with Italian,Russian and Israeli tourists getting killed.

I happened to be in Thailand because of my enterprising travel agent. Gave her $700 and told her to get my ass out of the Middle East. I was intrigued to say the least when she called and said I am on a plane to BKK. And the rest is history.

I have had my fair share of American bi-atches and I will never be with one again. On the other hand I had a really screwed up Italian chic that had to smoke while doing the poke but that I am going to write about later. Was hilarious.

Cheers,

Buzz

El Aleman

12-08-04, 17:22

Bart,

You might find what you just described in Prague, however I think it is rather unlikely (or, you might consider youself very lucky).

Women in the eastern european countries are very independent, very self supporting - this is a late result of years living under a communist system, where everybody was supposed to work, and women often were main supporters of their families. Things have changed a bit since then, but the general idea is still there. And, as a result of that idea, many women in these countries have become rather materialistic. Exceptions confirm the rule.

To find what you seem to look for, I recommend:

- read Dickheads posts again
- read them a third (fourth..) time
- read the Argentina section of this forum
- enroll in spanish classes TODAY
- go to South America, preferably Buenos Aires.

What you find there is better than everything in Europe, and I live here.

Sorry, DH, in case I reveal some secrets - but instead of sitting behind my desk, I would rather be drinking a beer with you in Salome, contemplating the options for the rest of the night...

El Alemán

Bart9000

12-09-04, 01:17

El,

I hear you. I have actually considered Buenos Aires. However, there are two things stopping me. 1. Yes, Latinas are indeed attractive and sexy, and from what I hear quite accomodating to men. However, I vastly prefer the european aesthetic. 2. In all honesty, I don't think I could handle living someplace that has as big a discreptancy between "haves and have nots" as does BA. I have heard tales of leaving an office building there and being confronted with 25 truly impovrished beggars. Call me a big softie if you like-I resemble the remark to some degree.

My sole point about European (and the rest of the world's) women is that they (in my admittedly limited experience) are substantially LESS loud, obnoxious, egocentric, greedy, than what I am used to dealing with, and I believe that I would have a much better time in say even Western Europe than I do in the midwest US. All things considered, I'm not looking for perfection (As BA may in fact be), just a BIG improvement.

On a slightly different note, I wanted to comment on the "bad boy loser" phenomena in light of my hypothesis that American girls are the way that they are in part (temporarily disregarding my co-theory that the US's prohibition on prostitution drops the supply down and raises the obnoxious egocentric "price") because since the day they hit puberty, there is a non stop ass kissing session from boys and men trying to get that "priceless little treasure" between their legs. Anything that you receive constantly becomes boring. Conversely however, the bad boy loser creates infinitely valuable entertainment in the form of DRAMA when he cheats on her, loses his job, slaps her around, etc. To the girl, this is like getting to live inside a soap opera where "things happen"-this is more or less analogous to a man getting to live James Bond's life!!!!!!

Also the "ghetto" middle class white girl annoys me too-I wish that fad would hurry up and go the way of my generation's "Valley Girl"-I'll probably be gone before it is:)

"Bart"

Dickhead

12-09-04, 19:01

Hey El Alemán, I was in Salomé last night but the selection was poor. Hey Bart, I don't know exactly what you mean by the European esthetic but there are plenty of gals here with European skin and features. They're not predominately mestizos or anything like that. And yeah, there are beggars here but not packs of 25 hanging around outside office buildings. That's a bunch of horseshit. The economy here has improved noticeably in the past year or so.

I hope and pray I never have to go back to the US of A.

Spike

12-10-04, 10:07

Don't get a big head (!!) over this, but your post of 12/6 is probably the most insightful thing I have read on this board. You are RIGHT on the money.

I have long struggled to explain the utter disdain I feel towards American women, and you have summed it all up neatly in a short little post.

I have been married 4 times and I refuse to say that there is anything wrong with me other than a serious tendancy to spoil the woman I am with. I have gained absolutely ZERO respect for my efforts. I am kind, considerate, generous and respectful, I make a very nice income, I guess I'm not TOO ugly and it doesn't count for shit with the bitches I've ended up with (OK, I'm also a slow learner). My first wife was Filipina and I was too f*cking dumb to know what I had, so we split up. I've been paying the price ever since.

The only factor you didn't address was the "bad boy" syndrome mentioned by Bart two posts back. American women are so f*cked up and spoiled that they NEED to be slapped around to feel any passion. The proof is all around; look at all the ditsy girls that hang off the neanderthal morons in this world, guys who can't even make change or tie their shoes.

Go to China where the average guy is a smelly, belching, lung-butter hawking, chain smoking, womanizing, drunken pig and see how anxious the women are to meet someone with even a modicum of civility! If there were any justice in the world, American women would be sentenced to live with abusive Russians, chauvinistic Japanese or disgusting Chinese men, and we would benefit from the kindly attentions of women who know the reality of life.

I think a good part of the problem is that we live in a culture in which the male role has been throughly de-valued. Except for the mindless attention paid to the occasional misfit psuedo outlaw, there is absolutely NO importance ascribed to maleness in our society. We've all been turned into Dagwood Bumstead. Hell, I'm guessing that this board might damn well fold from lack of interest if there was a general availability of kind, feminine, supportive and sensual women in this country, the kind that can easily be found overseas. Until that happens, p4p and the physical and psychological release thereby provided will continue to be an important option. I'm damn near shocked to death that so many guys go overseas and then manage to return to this country and put up with this sh*t!!

Spike, out....

El Aleman

12-10-04, 12:08

Bart,

You must be talking about Bombay, not Buenos Aires. Even in May 2002, 5 months after the big crash, I have not seen packs of beggars. Yes, there is poverty in Argentina, and yes, the gap between rich and poor is big in South America. The country where it is biggest today is Russia. Ant the city with the most visible street bums I have ever been is Washington, DC. More or less on George W.'s front porch.

To esthetics: have a look at that website: www.escortsbaires.com.ar - it is an Argentinean escort website, one of the few with 100% real pics. This gives you a good impression of the types of women to expect in BA. Not much different from Milan, Paris, Barcelona, Frankfurt etc. The Argentinean population is 35% Spanish, 30% Italian, and the rest from the rest of the world, mostly Europe. Nearly no Indio, at least not in Buenos Aires (different in western provinces).

DH: a poor selection by far beats no selection....

El Alemán

Mystic Pimp

12-11-04, 05:32

Well, for those of you who like to constantly bash women in the USA...listen to this. It's interesting what you find out about today's women in the mainstream media (either print, radio or TV). I was watching a video about dating, and a statistic got thrown out that fascinates me. It seems that women who have affairs are more fertile when they have sex with a lover than with their significant other (ie boyfriend/husband). If the attached woman has a kid, there's a 10% chance that the father is not the bf/hubby!! Maybe someone you know might be in this category.

MP

Bart9000

12-11-04, 08:15

El,

OK, now I really hear you. Maybe I should pop down there sometime in the next year or so to "try it on for size". Incidently, I already know a fair bit of Espanol.

Mystic-allow me to add something to your post. I too have seen the statistic you are referring to. It (as I recall-don't remember where this came from) arose from a blood typing study conducted on a broad cross section of society. The incidental finding that arose was that 10% of the study subjects COULD NOT (per their blood type) have been fathered by the person that they knew as "Dad"

Rock Dog

12-12-04, 09:44

Does anyone know anything more about this study with the 10% figure? That would seem to indicate that a lot of women are fucking around on their husband / boyfriend / partners.

Of course it's not that surprising if we think about how many of us do it when we think no one's watching. Let's face it, men don't have a monopoly when it comes to screwing around. Still, ten percent seems kind of high. If it's true, the actual number of women who cheat on their partners must be even higher since the ten percent figure would only be for the ones who got pregnant from their "on-the-side" action.

One more thing just occurred to me. Just because a blood-typing test doesn't eliminate you as being the father, it doesn't proove that you ARE either. Kind of makes you want to sneak a couple of samples and make sure your kids are really YOURS.

That reminds me of something Ronald Reagan once said... "Trust, but verify"

Rock

PsyberZombie

12-12-04, 22:40

Rock Dog writes =

One more thing just occurred to me. Just because a blood-typing test doesn't eliminate you as being the father, it doesn't proove that you ARE either

Rock Dog is in·correct = DNA Testing can absolutely ELIMINATE you as the Father of a child

... but if your DNA matches the kid's , the Odds that you are NOT the Father is on the Order of One in Billions !!

So , if your DNA and the little bastard's match = you WILL be Ordered to pay Child Support for the next 18 years at least , by Any Court in Any State here in the USA ; and these scientific 'technicalities' Arguments will get you exactly *no·where*

Bart9000

12-13-04, 06:46

The point I was helping to make, was that (as I understand and recall what I read correctly) in the study, the child possessed given blood type X. Mom possessed blood type Y, and "Dad" (as known to the child) possessed blood type Z. Per rules of reproduction and blood typing as I (on an admittedly limited basis-not my field) understand it, blood type Y plus blood type Z cannot combine genetically (or whatever) to produce the child with blood type X.

Hence, as Y +Z does not =X, and Y is established (at delivery obviously), then "Z does not equal Z". In other words, Z cannot be the father, which was the finding of the study that we were citing.

Rock Dog

12-13-04, 07:15

PZ,

I thought that test Bart 9000 referred to was a simple blood typing test. As in type A, B, O or AB or whatever. As far as I know, a test of this nature can only tell if the kid isn't yours. An example would be if I was type O, the woman was type O also, and yet somehow the kid comes out type B. That would eliminate any chance that I was the father. However, if I was type A, mom was type B and the kid was AB, I would not be eliminated as the possible father. This wouldn't be proof that I WAS the father.

A DNA test is a completely different matter. Like you said, a DNA match pretty much sticks you with the bill.

If I've got it all wrong, just let me know.

Rock

Spike

12-14-04, 21:54

it is all moot. There have been many cases in which the man (read that "victim") has been conclusively PROVEN to not be the biological father and he is STILL required to pay support by the "judge". This is especially true after the child is born (which is when testing is normally performed), and even true when the father has been totally deceived by the "mom". Go figure.

Psyber Z, I'm not sure what you meant when you posted to those of us who like to bash American women. I don't LIKE to bash anyone, but I know of what I speak from experience, having married three women who all proceeded to gain over 100 pounds within the first year of marriage, all the while playing the princess role to the hilt. I refuse to respect anyone who would pull that sh*t on anyone, most especially me.

Look, it isn't even the weight. If I love a woman I can be blind to things like that, but, when said same fat, smelly ***** proceeds to treat me like a piece of shit, all the while acting like she is god's own gift to my life, forget it.

I am VERY tired of all the coarse, masculine, cigar smoking, pushy, egotistical, egregiously over-competitive and arrogant women in this country. Say what you will about women in many Asian or other countries looking for financial security in exchange for sex.... that arrangement is as old as the human species and not likely to change. Many Asian women expect their men to take care of them; a major difference is that they will take care of their men in return. At least they are soft, quiet and feminine (these are all generalities by the way).

I fight all day long; in business I fight with my competitors and my employees, in day to day life I fight traffic, crowds, the government and all the other bullsh*t we all have to face on an ongoing basis. I absolutely refuse to come home and fight with some gal over control of my home life. I spent more damned time with my last wife trying to determine which one of us had the bigger dick... I don't need it anymore. Asian (and many other foreign) women realize that there is more harmony in the home when both partners focus on what they do best.

As I said before, it isn't American women per se, it is the fact that we have spoiled them rotten. Femininization of males and masculinization of females is certainly another factor.

Sinanju Master

12-15-04, 00:30

Spike, I HEAR YA!

I've often thought (basically) the same thing: I do battle with the world at large on a daily basis and when I come home, it would be nice to have a S.O. soothe my brow and take off the weight of the world for a little while. Instead, I'd more than likely be confronted with some overdemanding, grossly overweight b*tch who would only ADD to my woes of the day. Would I ever get married to a American Woman? Yeah, as soon as Bush leads the Gay Pride Parade down Pennsylvania Avenue wearing a pink thong, a tiara and thigh-high velvet boots while lip-synching to "It's Raining Men".

Daddy Rulz

12-15-04, 07:40

Spike,

I have had that very discussion with female friends of mine here in sex prison and without exception their responce is "Your just not up to a challenge." My answer is fucking A right I'm not.

I agree life is challenging enough for all of us, male and female alike. At home I want peace. I don't want a slave I just want a partner that is loving and supportive. For that and a little appreciation I'll kill myself to love them in return.

I don't think it's womens fault but rather the fucked up way we (men and women) have been taught to socialize here. We roll over for them in search of peace and they want a man to be a man but then the sisterhood gets together and decides the very "Man" they have is abusing them. Then it's child support and seeing the kids every other weekend for us because they are unhappy.

Color me out of the whole thing. BsAs is only one day away.

DR

Loser

12-15-04, 08:50

I'm from asia and after I read this forum on american women, I must feel like I be on heaven with all asian beauties that you guys call off. Did you had the chance of reading the other side of story of what asian men think of asian women, like you guys do about american women.

Its "Likewise", the age old truth, the grass is greener on the other side. We look at american women as a symbol of freedom, of openess, a fighting spirit, saying no to things they don't deserve. Why?? 'cos, the women here are just too ignorant of there rights, they don't get the kind of rights that american women do. Hence, they are programmed to "obey".

You loose some, you win some. Do anyone think that, american women don't deserve what they do now, its pity, really of all women suffering in the world from african nations to muslim countries, were women are treated like some insturment to work on. I'm sure everyone knows about this, the kinda suffering that women undergo in a third world country, can you for one day live in the black burkha that muslim women wear, from head to toe, in the heat of asian summer and work from morning to night and get abused, beaten regularly day in and day out, by the hubby in return and she got to look no where for justice, wow !! thats fair and if american women have some defense left in her to argue and seek justice by the kind of torture that she goes through that we get the chance to see in oprah show, thats a fair game

Guys get it, men and women all over the world are same, deep down uncounsiously, there lurks a primitive mentality to dominate, its innate, no matter how much you call yourself modern, social, we all are animals in one way or the other, men and women alike.

Its just that, when you got problems with women, you got to go through all legal process and punsihment and when we are in trouble with women, we know how to shut them up, yeah yeah, age old muscle still rules the house, and guess what, american women have choice so its a bit fair game, she won't take no shit from a men and in here unfortunately, they don't have this choice and who on earth don't understand and suffers till death that thers is "NO DAMM DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMEN". she too has dreams, just like you do, she too would like to live a good life, she wants good looking guys like you do by mongering round the world to get beautiful babes, they too like to eat good food, live in a good house, they too would like to reduce there overweight like you would, why can't we get these thing in our ***** mentality, why can't we understand these facts and due to dominant jealous unconcious mind we need some one to supress and it applies to both men and women.

America is just an oppourtunity for women to express her freedom, they represent the epitome of women's freedom, Just read this forum, and there are tales and tales of stories regarding how they brought so called asian beauty to america and with in months, they changed there attitude and became like an american women.

Now on one side we have women, who has now the oppourtunty in a millinea, to express her freedom, which was non existant even in jesus era and on the other we have women the majority ones who get tortured, day in and day out to there muscled counterpart and they have no voices to concern us.

Now for the facts, now as more and more asian countries becoming modernised by the way of western influence, we are on the middle path, our women are not facing the extremities like muslim or african women do.
Now is the game, as more and more women come out of the closet from my backyard and earn 5 figure income, the girls that i competed in school, they are becoming more like an american women mentality, they are free and take no shit attitude, cos they are financially free here, no need for a men support.

Anyone one has to give it up, who will it be american muscle or new found feminity, if both has to go mutually, there is only one solution and before finding that i went through horrible torture as i was in social middle path of extremity and subtality.

Whoever comes to american women forum, must read the free articles of doc love at www.askmen.com.

Of reading 10's of books on love and relationship. In my opinion he is the guy who has read the mind of a women in 5000 years of civilisation. Women are same around the world, its just a matter of oppourtunity, before they show up there true nature.

Before reading his articles, I was the mr nice guy, doing everything to impress the women with nicest words, opening the door, gifts, keeping my preference second to hers. and i suffered and suffered horribly with the kind of mental torture i went through and then out of frustation I went to seek P4P and landed in WSG, it was just a chance of destiny that i read in american women forum someone suggesting to read doc lov's articles at askmen.com and how it changed his life, from that day after i read his articles. I got a new life literally in terms of relations. I'm The Man now for myself and satisfied till death about relationship with women. he described all relationship solutions for american men and women in general, but i was shocked that its the very same thing thats hapenning to me and i thank him for ever to help me out.

If you read those articles, I can 100 % gaurentee for my soul that you will come satisfied and be free or else be bound in slave of relationship demons and mental prisons.

I thank Jackson for such a wonderfull forum for free expression and slaute the american freedom that we look up to "men and women alike".

Loser

Mike12

12-15-04, 09:01

Was talking to this Vietnamese guy yesterday about women. He said "I don't know what wrong with American woman here, they act like man, system no good for man, good for woman, woman come before man here, in Vietnam, and china, man before woman, woman like take care man, here culture very materialistic, woman love money not man". Nuff said.

PsyberZombie

12-15-04, 12:39

Some points for Rock Dog =

What you are referring to is basic "A·B·O" blood typing , but even there it's not all cut and dried = for ex , a type 'A' mother and a type 'B' father can produce a type 'O' child [ because the 'O' gene is recessive ]

Or = two 'O·positive' parents can produce an 'O·negative' child

But there are many more 'surface anti·gens' that blood typing can test for = the 'positive' and 'negative' you hear about is just the major Antigen [ known as 'D' ] in a the C·D·E group

And there are many others = M·N ; Kell : Duffy ; etc ; etc

You may recall the OJ Simpson case , where rapidly done blood typing was used to narrow the perp down to one in a thousand men [ of course , OJ fit that profile ] = that was done with the antigen blood typing I'm talking about ; and later DNA testing narrowed it down to OJ by many more orders of magnitude

Blood typing is in·expensive and fast , and is often used as a screen before the more expensive , slow DNA testing is done [ Why take the time and money to do DNA testing on a suspect if in·expensive blood typing can eliminate her as a suspect in a few hours ?? ]

Of course , I'd be better able to respond to that Article if I had actually read it = could you post its URL ; or at least the citation . I'll check it out , and give you my humble opinion about it

New Bound

12-15-04, 13:45

Hey guys, just curious,

If an American guy gets an American women pregnant, and they are not married-- can the guy be held liable for child support or other payments?

Another question guys:

If your a young single American guy, what is the best US city to chase those hot young ladies for short-term fun. Yeah, Id never marry a USA women, but I do enjoy dating them. I've personally had the most luck in San Diego getting some short-term out of the club free fun. But, where is the best mid/large city to be in if your stuck in the USA and are looking to hook-up with sexy babes for awhile? I was thinking of moving maybe to D.C. or New Orleans-- any thoughts? The truth is the USA is a big country, some areas must be better than others in terms of getting laid with sexy babes. So what is the best USA city to be in for us WSG members? (if your stuck in the USA-- no international choices allowed) Some of us unlucky dudes are forced working in the USA for now.

My personal favorite international location-- Rio, Brazil. Wow, these girls are sex machines. I lot of nice sweet, sexy, women, with beautiful bodies. #1 in my book when I'm lucky enough for a vacation.

Joe Zop

12-15-04, 18:44

Newbound, ABSOLUTELY you can and most likely will be held liable for child support. I just played poker with a buddy of mine who is finally off the hook for child support after 18 years -- and that was from a one-night stand. (Of course, being the guy he is he's probably considering helping out with the kid's college as well.)

And nice thoughtful post, Loser.

Bart9000

12-15-04, 22:10

Hi All,

Something I've noticed:

There is a propensity (of varying degrees-I'm speaking in general terms, and I'm aware that of course exceptions exist) among American Girls to "run wild" in their youth. At this period in time, when they are GENERALLY at their most physically attractive (their biggest asset) they, in varying degrees chase exciting "loser bad boys", "pretty boys", professional athletes, rock stars etc. They take almost no responsibility for anything during this time, barely hanging onto their jobs, maybe going to college.

Near the end of this period, as their tight little asses widen, and looks begin to fade (or they may even have an illegitimate baby fathered by a scumbag loser who won't or can't contribute to it's upkeep), they begin to look around for a "schlub"-a boring, not so pretty, "nice guy" that she wouldn't have looked at twice before who she can use to foot the bills, and give her a nice little life, with a nice house (which she generally gets to keep if it "doesn't work out") and a nice pickett fence, where she can start popping out babies, get fat, and become a soccer mom.

I frequently have this argument with a female friend. She maintains that this behaviour is not malicious, simply the girl getting smarter as she grows up and ages a bit. My response to this is simple: "I don't care". To me, "being the schlub" is analogous to someone throwing a big, wild extravagent party (not inviting you of course), and then, after the festivities are over, asking you to come over and help clean up, maybe offering you some of the leftover food and booze as an incentive.

I for one refuse to play my assigned role

"Bart"

Long Stroker

12-16-04, 02:23

An American woman gets home, screeches her car into the driveway, runs into the house, slams the door & shouts at the top of her lungs, "Honey pack your bags, I just won the lottery!"

The husband says, "Oh my God!, what should I pack, beach stuff or mountain
stuff?"

"Doesn't matter", she says. "Just get the fuck out!"

Rock Dog

12-16-04, 06:23

PZ

I don't have a clue. It was Mystic and Bart9000 who brought the subject up in the first place. It really caught my attention because of the 10% figure for illegitimacy. The points that I tried to make were to point out that this 10% figure must have been the minimum, rather than the maximum.

I'd love to see that study myself to know how big was the sample size, what people were tested, what possible biases could have been involved etc.

If that study was even halfway accurate, it means that there must be an amazingly high number of women out there who have sex on the side with other men. I guess it's possible that some of them got pregnant before they met their current guy, but still that would only be a small number. You could also infer that the numbers of women who fuck around are even higher since it's only the ones who got pregnant that show up in the 10%. My guess would be anywhere from 20 to 50 percent of women are up to something while your back is turned.

Rock

Sinanju Master

12-16-04, 22:17

BART, I posted something similar to what you said a while back. I wouldn't say that women are getting SMARTER as your female friend said, but getting desperate (for lack of a more accurate word, but this one will do nicely for illustrative purposes). WHY is it that these same women who rejected said losers earlier (in their more attractive years) are NOW eyeing them with even the SLIGHTEST interest? It's because now, when they are up against younger, more attractive competition, they resort to playing upon the perception that since the loser didn't score with a lot of women in his life, they can sucker him by paying fraudulent attention to him to sell him a defective set of goods that will be extremely difficult if not outright IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of. Then while the loser is holding the (marital and paternal) bag of crappy merchandise, the female fraud can go out and search for the "exciting" bad-boy schlong she has always been attracted to but failed to mention to the loser who is now in a metaphorical quicksand. If these women are so SMART, then explain to me why the latest divorce stats are hovering around 50%? They married the exciting, bad-boy only to find out he wasn't RIGHT for them long AFTER they had dated for a significant period of time. So, in effect, it's like you said: the poor schlub is a BACKUP plan if Plan A (bad-boy) fails. At the very least, the Backup Plan will satisfy some material wants. And they say that women are the SMARTER of the species. Shit like THAT makes me wonder who the fuck coined that phrase.....

Also, regarding what LOSER posted... I have no prob with a woman being independent, self-sufficient with rights equal to my own. It's when she thinks her shit doesn't stink and that I should be glad to lick the dung from the heels of her pumps is when they earn my scorn many times over. I wasn't put on this earth to serve ANY woman and I don't expect any woman to slave over ME. They need to learn that respect (and all that goes with it) is a two-way street. My position remains UNCHANGED despite what LOSER said: I'll take foreign-born women (in their OWN COUNTRY) over American women ANYTIME, thank you.