General Info [Archive] - Page 4 - InternationalSexGuide

Peter

05-26-05, 08:12

CIA factbook. Aids prevalance in countries. See where Germany is? Don't get too worried!

I think most Goldentime info here is in the "other Clubs" section. It is relatively new, been open for about 1.5 years. It is the same in price and all as PHG, but is a competitor. The people who put up the money used to run Relax in Limburg.

69
United States 0.60 2003 est.
70
Papua New Guinea 0.60 2003 est.
71
Mauritania 0.60 2003 est.
72
Latvia 0.60 2001 est.
73
Italy 0.50 2001 est.
74
Paraguay 0.50 2003 est.
75
Peru 0.50 2003 est.
76
Nepal 0.50 2001 est.
77
France 0.40 2003 est.
78
Switzerland 0.40 2001 est.
79
Vietnam 0.40 2003 est.
80
Portugal 0.40 2001 est.
81
Malaysia 0.40 2003 est.
82
Austria 0.30 2003 est.
83
Uruguay 0.30 2001 est.
84
Chile 0.30 2003 est.
85
Mexico 0.30 2003 est.
86
Libya 0.30 2001 est.
87
Canada 0.30 2003 est.
88
Ecuador 0.30 2003 est.
89
Belarus 0.30 2001 est.
90
Bahrain 0.20 2001 est.
91
Belgium 0.20 2003 est.
92
Serbia and Montenegro 0.20 2001 est.
93
United Kingdom 0.20 2001 est.
94
Singapore 0.20 2003 est.
95
Nicaragua 0.20 2003 est.
96
Netherlands 0.20 2001 est.
97
Malta 0.20 2001 est.
98
Moldova 0.20 2001 est.
99
Luxembourg 0.20 2001 est.
100
Kazakhstan 0.20 2001 est.
101
Iceland 0.20 2001 est.
102
Greece 0.20 2001 est.
103
Denmark 0.20 2003 est.
104
United Arab Emirates 0.18 2001 est.
105
Comoros 0.12 2001 est.
106
Kuwait 0.12 2001 est.
107
Algeria 0.10 2001 est.
108
Australia 0.10 2003 est.
109
Azerbaijan 0.10 2003 est.
110
Bolivia 0.10 2003 est.
111
Bulgaria 0.10 2001 est.
112
Sri Lanka 0.10 2001 est.
113
Maldives 0.10 2001 est.
114
Oman 0.10 2001 est.
115
Mauritius 0.10 2001 est.
116
Morocco 0.10 2001 est.
117
Macedonia 0.10 2001 est.
118
Georgia 0.10 2001 est.
119
Fiji 0.10 2003 est.
120
Finland 0.10 2003 est.
121
Czech Republic 0.10 2001 est.
122
Ireland 0.10 2001 est.
123
Egypt 0.10 2001 est.
124
Cyprus 0.10 2003 est.
125
Cuba 0.10 2003 est.
126
China 0.10 2003 est.
127
Tajikistan 0.10 2001 est.
128
Syria 0.10 2001 est.
129
Sweden 0.10 2001 est.
130
Slovenia 0.10 2001 est.
131
Philippines 0.10 2003 est.
132
Romania 0.10 2001 est.
133
Poland 0.10 2001 est.
134
Pakistan 0.10 2001 est.
135
Mongolia 0.10 2003 est.
136
Yemen 0.10 2001 est.
137
Uzbekistan 0.10 2001 est.
138
Turkmenistan 0.10 2004 est.
139
Turkey 0.10 2001 est.
140
Tunisia 0.10 2005 est.
141
Slovakia 0.10 2001 est.
142
Lithuania 0.10 2001 est.
143
Lebanon 0.10 2001 est.
144
Laos 0.10 2003 est.
145
Korea, South 0.10 2003 est.
146
Kyrgyzstan 0.10 2001 est.
147
Jordan 0.10 2001 est.
148
Japan 0.10 2003 est.
149
New Zealand 0.10 2003 est.
150
Norway 0.10 2001 est.
151
Iraq 0.10 2001 est.
152
Israel 0.10 2001 est.
153
Iran 0.10 2001 est.
154
Indonesia 0.10 2003 est.
155
Hungary 0.10 2001 est.
156
Croatia 0.10 2001 est.
157
Hong Kong 0.10 2003 est.
158
Germany 0.10 2001 est.
159
Brunei 0.10 2003 est.
160
Bhutan 0.10 2001 est.
161
Bosnia and Herzegovina 0.10 2001 est.
162
Bangladesh 0.10 2001 est.
163
Armenia 0.10 2003 est.
164
Qatar 0.09 2001 est.
165
Cape Verde 0.04 NA
166
Afghanistan 0.01 2001 est.
167
Saudi Arabia 0.01 2001 est.
168
Svalbard 0.00 2001

This page was last updated on 17 May, 2005

Peter

05-26-05, 08:21

By that list, Cape Verde is the only place where it is not suicide to have sex with black people. Look at the top 25!

1
Swaziland 38.80 2003 est.
2
Botswana 37.30 2003 est.
3
Lesotho 28.90 2003 est.
4
Zimbabwe 24.60 2001 est.
5
South Africa 21.50 2003 est.
6
Namibia 21.30 2003 est.
7
Zambia 16.50 2003 est.
8
Malawi 14.20 2003 est.
9
Central African Republic 13.50 2003 est.
10
Mozambique 12.20 2003 est.
11
Guinea-Bissau 10.00 2003 est.
12
Tanzania 8.80 2003 est.
13
Gabon 8.10 2003 est.
14
Cote d'Ivoire 7.00 2003 est.
15
Sierra Leone 7.00 2001 est.
16
Cameroon 6.90 2003 est.
17
Kenya 6.70 2003 est.
18
Burundi 6.00 2003 est.
19
Liberia 5.90 2003 est.
20
Haiti 5.60 2003 est.
21
Nigeria 5.40 2003 est.
22
Rwanda 5.10 2003 est.
23
Congo, Republic of the 4.90 2003 est.
24
Chad 4.80 2003 est.
25
Ethiopia 4.40 2003 est.

If I look at it, it is pure black until 37, where Cambodia is located

Novize

05-26-05, 19:48

Bruce,

it´s better to clearify that with the girl upfront.

"Officially" it´s 50,- €(at the Rhein.Main-clubs), but this is one of the services that are highly negotiable.

Have fun,

Novize

All For Bb

05-27-05, 04:04

Novize, Peter, Shiatsu, FM,

Since all of you tasted many many pussies, I envy all of you. One question, how is the pussy juice tasted? Any difference between different pussies (girls)? Ever swallow?

I will go FFK in early June. I am starting eat many many pussies.

all4bb

Novize

05-27-05, 09:02

Any difference between different pussies (girls)?

Yes.

Have fun,

Novize

Wanking

05-27-05, 11:25

It taste like Wee Wee.

CBGBConnisur

05-27-05, 16:02

Aids isn't a big problem in Germany per say but if you are really afraid of catching something you shouldn't have sex at all, just play with your right hand. Always use a condom for vaginal or anal sex, and if you are that much concerned make the girl put on a condom before she gives you a blow job, and don't go down on her. If you really need company just tell her to give you hand job. Most women in German clubs are not very paranoid from my experience, this is a country where public nudity is common( english garden, the saunas) and people are very open about their sexuality(love parade, groping during oktoberfest, etc) like no other western country, so bbbjs are common.

Life is short, life sucks, the world is a fucking ball of shit, enjoy the good things while you're alive and don't worry.

Kirsia123

05-28-05, 10:58

Hi Peter,

I should've been more specific. I am just curious cuz I've never been to a FKK club.

I prefer to have sex when noone else is watching and that might be a problem in an FKK Club. I also like women with tight asses but not to tight cuz I wanna fuck them. :-) I really like to finish with a great BBBJ and cum all over the womans face.

Here are maybe some more detailed questions:

- What is the normal rate if tou want to have vaginal, anal and to cum all over her face?

- What is the best time during the day to get in?

- Can you have sex with two women in a private room at the same time?

- Do the FKK clubs have bukkake parties?

- Are most women from the former East Europe in the FKK Clubs?

- If I am staying in Frankfurt which is the easiest club to get to?

- Can you please explain all the abbrivations that floats around here on this forum?

Hope these questions are specific enough for you? :-)

Novize

05-28-05, 17:34

I think, that wasn´t not much better, you could find most answers if you would read the reports posted in this great forum... :rolleyes:

Anyway, let´s start:

- I prefer to have sex when noone else is watching and that might be a problem in an FKK Club.

Why? There are rooms...

- What is the normal rate if tou want to have vaginal, anal and to cum all over her face?

In the Rhein-Main-area, the going rate is 50 € per started 30 min., including BBBJ and intercourse. Anal is 50 - 100 € extra. Cum on Face could be a problem, because the girl would need some time to repair her make-up afterwards. Expect another 50 - 100 €. Not all girls will do all Extras. Ask upfront!

- What is the best time during the day to get in?

The best time to get in is during opening times. Frankfurt clubs open at 10:00 a.m. and stay open until 4:00 or 5:00 a.m. next day.

Don´t expect many girls to be ready for work 5 minutes after the club has opened it´s doors. From midday on you should find a nice selection of girls in every club - even at Palace, where most of the great providers start to work lately.

- Can you have sex with two women in a private room at the same time?

Yes, youcan. But you have to pay every girl separately, there´s no discount. Double the prices mentioned above. Many girls like to work with a colleague - it´s just half of the work for at least the same money (lesbo-show is another Extra of 50,- € per girl).

- Do the FKK clubs have bukkake parties?

No!

- Are most women from the former East Europe in the FKK Clubs?

The majority of women comes froem Eastern Europe, but there are also women from Germany, Latin America, Southern Europe and, and, and...

- If I am staying in Frankfurt which is the easiest club to get to?

FKK-Palace, see separate section.

- Can you please explain all the abbrivations that floats around here on this forum?

Have a look here:

http://www.*************.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1897

Have fun,

Novize

CBGBConnisur

05-28-05, 18:28

The cost for sex in an FKK can be as little as 25EUR to about 80EUR, the average is around 50EUR, and at least in NRW area clubs this should usually include vaginal and bbbjs, some girls provide extras. There are women from all over the world at many FKKs, the bulk of women tend to come from Eastern Europe, and there are local German women, there are also a lot of Middle Eastern and Turkish women at the clubs, occasionally some Asians and Africans too.

Peter

05-30-05, 18:53

Couple of Answers:

All4BB,

There are about 4 main pussy tastes, and most fall ino those categories. Best is when ittastes like nothing, ust like body fluid, sort of like the saliva in a mouth when kissing. Sometime it is a little sour, I don't like that. Sometimes it tastes a little musky, that could well be a yeast infection, or she hasn't washed too much.

Sometimes it tastes really sweet, but that is usually when they put some sort of gell in there. It is like flavoured lubricant.

There are also different pussy textures. I like smooth inside lips the most.

Pussy juice is not really someing thathas taste, and even if a woman orgasms strongly there is rarely a lot of ejaculate to swallow either.

Just go eat some pussy.

Kirsia,

For what you like the Rheine Ruhr area is certainly a better deal. In Wildenrath, Happy Garden or Goldentime the cost would be 75€ for 1 hour (if you want vaginal, anal and Cum on Face you should take a full hour) 50€ for Anal (But only about 15% of women offer Anal). I am not sure whether Cum of Face is 25€ or 50€ extra, So if you do a half hour then the whole thing could be as little as 125€. But agin, ask in advance, not all girls will offer all this stuff.

Bukakke is not really an FKK thing.

Novize is right, there are rooms, not public orgies.

Vitch

05-30-05, 19:39

All For Bb

05-30-05, 23:11

Peter,

Thanks for describing the variety tastes of pussies. I can't wait to eat more pussies when my next visit in June 10th. I can report then what I feel.

Is there any differences of the taste of white pussies, oriental pussies, redhead pussies, and black pussies?

Anyone ever heard that if there is anyone ever actually caught HIV from ffk clubs?

all4pussy

Henio

05-30-05, 23:48

And the fifth taste of pussy is like a 18 weeks old camembert cheese. This one you will find when the girl has not showered for a week.

hehe, from pussy juice to bukkake, the last series of posts just crack me up

Chivaz

Peter

06-05-05, 09:00

Vitch,

It was not meant to be definitive, more of an observation, and not meant in a real racist way.

Peter

CBGBConnisur

06-05-05, 16:18

Most women's pussies smell more like yogurt than camembert cheese, although they have a bit of that too, in a strange way I like it when a woman's privates smell like certain dairy products. A lot of American women have a chemical KY Jelly plastic odor on their snatches, something I find to be a turn off. Only one time, at DV in Dusseldorf, with Margherita, an Italian, her snatch smelled like Big Red Cinammon gum, she had the best tasting pussy ever.

Henio

06-05-05, 21:40

I remember last time with Margherita at DV. I was cheewing on this nice cinammon gum (the bid red type you know) when she draged me to the room and immediatly I went for DATY. Somwhere in the process I lost my gum, but now I know where it ended up.

Just glad that someone else got to enjoy the gum. Makes the loss a little bit more bearable.

;-) ;-)

Chivaz

Iseeu

06-06-05, 04:07

Chivaz,
Serves you right for going into DATY with a full mouth...LOL

All For Bb

06-06-05, 13:57

Last visit, I got a receipt from Palace 65 Euro for Dinner. On the receipt, it indicated from Dagmar Lerch. What is meaning of "Dagmar Lerch"? I got a similar receipt from World, it indicated "Kaunzberg, Gastronomie GmbH". What that mean? I wonder if I could submit the receipts to my company for reimbursment as the meal receipt? Anyone know German, please advise. Does any of those mean a nude club, or a brothel?

Thanks!

Novize

06-06-05, 20:27

The "Dagmar Lerch Vermietungs GmbH" is the company that runs FKK-Palace.

Have fun,

Novize

CBGBConnisur

06-06-05, 23:03

What's the annual turnover(revenue) of the Palace?

Novize

06-07-05, 10:47

What's the annual turnover(revenue) of the Palace?

Call and ask.

Have fun,

Novize

Peter

06-08-05, 20:09

All 4 Bb,

You can probably turn in the World one. Gastronomie just means restaurant or catering. I googled it and nothing came up. If you google the whole Dagmar Lerch Vermietungs GMBH, then one of the three results is Palace, so you might not want to turn that one in.

Depending on how long your company keeps records and what your political aspirations are, you might want to think twice about fucking on the company dime.

Peter

CBGBConnisur

06-09-05, 02:32

I never keep the receipts from my visits, I always pay cash, never anything that is traceable like credit or debit cards.

Euro100

06-09-05, 04:41

All For Bb,

On this one I am completely with CBGBC:

I never keep the receipts from my visits, I always pay cash, never anything that is traceable like credit or debit cards.

The receipts from all FKKs are purposely kept neutral-sounding so that wifes looking into credit card statements are not tipped off right away. So they make it sound like a normal restaurant bill. I would be very nervous to leave traces for my wife, and that's why I never pay with anything but cash at any FKK.

But running the FKK receipt through an expense account as a dinner is way too bold for me to consider. Depending on what country you live in, this actually constitutes a reaon for getting fired. You may want to think this one over ...

Cheers
euro

Akibono

06-09-05, 04:46

I agree. Why take the chance for a measly 65E. If it is an American company, you will surely get canned. Odds are some prude will have heard about a FKK from a bragging friend and they will take the opportunity to make you an example and to proseletize about the evils of sex!

On the other hand, how many Europeans have turned in such receipts as business expenses for entertaining clients!

CBGBConnisur

06-09-05, 15:57

Thanks to the French, the Euro is starting to come down in value, it was nearly $1.30 and is now in the $1.20 range. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it continues to fluctuate depending upon what W and his Neocons do over the next few years.

Jaas

06-10-05, 23:48

I have a question that hopefully some of you seasoned pros can help me with. What do you guys talk to the girls about! I've been to the Palace a handful of times and I find it hard to make small talk with the girls. I look around and everyone is sitting with a girl talking. For some reason, that doesn't happen with me. The language barrier is a problem sometimes, but even the girls that speak enough english rarely sit and talk. I know they must get tired of the same questions, ie: Where are you from? How long have you worked here? How old are you?, so I try to avoid questions like that, but what does that leave? Help me out, guys!

Thanks,

Jaas

Novize

06-11-05, 13:24

is possible about nearly every issue that is of interest for both.

As a regular guest in FKK-clubs it´s not easy to answer your questions, because I find someone I know in every location. And once you know a woman a little bit, it´s easy...

I suggest to avoid questions related to the girl´s job or asking the girl to meet outside the club. Political issues are not a good idea, either...

Ah, and sports. Don´t talk about sports. Most women hate it. Sports ruins the business... I often ask girls if they like football. But I´m prepared for the answer... ;)

You can approach a girl by just introducing yourself and asking for her name and where she´s from. I admit that this is not a really inventive approach, but the girls will answer politely and most of them will try to keep the conversation going on - that´s part of their job. If not, you can be happy to get rid of her before the clock starts to run.

You can show some interest in her homecountry, compliment her on her language skills (if existent), on her appearance, on her tattoes, make-up and so on.

Sometimes I like to "compliment" them on their clothing: "Great towel, D&G?", or "You need these shoes to have a look over the bar?". I experienced that girls not reacting positively on an approach like this are not the ones I´ll have a good session with.

It´s not necessary to be originally - just be authentic. If possible, react on a current situation. Or just lean back, smile at the girls and let them do the approach. Then you just have to answer her introduction. And if it doesn´t "click", don´t go for a session.

Have fun,

Novize

Optimist

06-13-05, 09:17

Jaas - Just to echo Novize's and Peter's (Palace thread). perfect replies They are 100% right I think. Although of course it depends what you want out of a session. In my experience a session with a girl always goes best if they are willing to talk about things (life, death, boyfriend trouble, the price of their new ring, how long it takes to do their make-up, how other clients treat them, the weather, their sons and daughters, where is best to work etc). If the conversation takes a light hearted turn then that's fine, if it turns to serious matters then that works as well. They often ask me about my family, my work and so on: sometimes it is nice for them to know about their clients.

Where else can you get sex and talking therapy combined for 50Euros? A bargain. (Ok - I know that is a rarity but it indicates how well it can go at its best)

If a girl is not willing to open up and talk a bit then the chances are she won't open up physically either. The key for me is to treat them as equals - that immediately marks you out from many of the clients who disrespect the girls. Not all clients are as considerate as wsg members. And taking an interest in them is always welcome - if it's not then I doubt the session will be good.

The only danger is that if the talking gets good then I end up paying a fortune!!

Peter

06-13-05, 21:36

Shiatsu,

Since I sometimes end up talking for more than 2 hours with the girls, I tend to stick to the Düsseldorf area clubs because the additional time is cheaper.

I was in a room for 3 hours with Natasha once and we had sex, but mainly talked. She wanted absolutely no money and after me arguing for quite a while she ended up accepting 75€ from me. I started at 175€, but she kept saying no, she doesn't take money for talking to me. We've known each other for years though.

Peter

06-13-05, 22:00

Sorry, It is outdated and some clubs are closed, but I am just reposting it:

Age range generally 18-30. Most girls are in the 21-26 range. I find most girls under 21 can't mentally cope with the job and offer worse service. there are some girls out there who are over 30, but not all that many. The pictures are of typical girls who are working in the better clubs. check out the Wildenrath home page, where I have the pictures from. I find they have the most attractive girls at the moment.

Looks also go the range, from some 4-6's and on a good night a lot of 8+'s. I am quite young and know a lot of really hot chicks, but Atlantis in the old days was full of girls I thought were really good looking. Now it can be hit and miss. at World last time I went there were only 4 girls who were 8+ and at least 20 who I wouldn't screw with someone elses dick. At Wildenrath there are about 8 girls from 20 who I consider 8+, but a couple of months ago the numbers looked very different.

I'll include a picture of Natascha from Wildenrath who is German and 24 years old and provides a really good service. she really gets into it, and when I went down on her and started fingering her while licking her ass she said, "wow, you'R wild and really know how to work a girls body" and she meant it.

Natascha

Just so that it doesn't look like I am advertising for Wildenrath (which is my favourite club by a long shot) I will give my honest opinion of the pro's and cons of that and other clubs. All pictures are from their home pages, but are all accurate and hardly any are retouched.

Wildenrath :
Pro's : Great girls, familial atmosphere, cleanliness, free beer (only here and Happy Garden have beer), good and plentiful food, Sauna (which I have never used) outdoor terrace and a big lawn, attractive pricing for longer term bookers like me (each addtional 30 mins is 25€, and you only pay for each additional service once)
Con's : Not a mega club (so only 15-20 women on an average night, Sometimes a strange crowd (especially when the gypsys come), no pool or hottub facility, girls are not naked

Wildenrath Terrace

Happy Garden
Pretty much the same as Wildenrath except with more women (although in my opinion not more good looking ones) and they don't have food fo as long (it goes away quickly).

PHG

Babylon:
Pro's: Young girls, BBBJ to warm up on the couch, guaranteed DFK, they offer a decent buffet again, women are fully naked
Con's: I am not convinced on the cleanliness, especially in the contact room, the pricing structure is a bit steep, The customer base is quite old and seems to be regular.

Babylon

Atlantis (to be honest I haven't been there for 1.5 years)
Pros : Sheer volume of women, indoor and outdoor pool, hot tubs and multiple saunas, women are fully naked
Cons: I think the entrance fee is high and the pricing is higher than the clubs around düsseldorf, especially for extras, The cleanliness of the changing rooms, especially showers leaves a lot to be desired. Has the feeling of a Fuck Factory, small rooms etc. Not a very personal feel, some people don't like the dark lighting, buffet is not everyday.

Atlantis 1Atlantis 2Atlantis 3Atlantis 4atl5

World (Been there twice and probably won't be back for a while)
Pro's: Nicest facilities you can humanly imagine. Indoor and outdoor pool, 2 hot tubs, movie room, massage facilites (additional cost, but real licensed masseur), Saunas, large landscaped garden with multiple huts and lounge chairs outside, full buffet all day long, very clean
Con's: In my opinion the worst selection of girls around, too few toilets, same price structure as atlantis

World 1World 2World1W2W3

I could go on forever, I have been to tonnes of Clubs: Oase,

oase

Sylt Nürnberg, Fantasyland, Relax, Parkschloss Dali, Freudenbergstr., Herne, dortmund, La Folie Berlin, Heavensgate, Wiago, Dolce Vita and diverse other clubs. Each club has its own charms and I like going to a new one every once in a while. I have my home club (wildenrath) but I always like to see what the others have to offer.

Hope this has been of help,

Peter

Oase is 30 minutes north of Frankfurt

World is 50 minutes north of Frankfurt and 20 minutes from Oase and 30 minutes from Atlantis

Fantasyland (Which I think has a new name now) is about 1 Hour from Frankfurt and halfway between Frankfurt and Cologne/Düsseldorf (these cities are 15 minutes apart).

Cologne Düsseldorf are about 200 KM north of Frankfurt. The A3 is the main highway joining the two areas, and Oase and World are more on the A5 (which runs sort of parallel)

Babylon is 30 minutes from Cologne and also 30 minutes from Düsseldorf, directly between them and due west.

Planet Happy Garden is about 30 minutes North West of Düsseldorf.

Parksauna Wildenrath is about 30 minutes Due West of Düsseldorf and about 20 minutes from Happy Garden.

The Red Carpet Clubs are a group of about 9 clubs located along the A40 and A42 highway between Essen and Dortmund. These clubs are called that becasue they all have the same owner and the same red carpet, their pricing is similar and quite cheap with 20 minute sessions including BBBJ at 25€ and entrance fees of between 20 and 35€. These clubs are not as luxurious and sometimes the service is so/so, but sometimes you hit a jewel.

Heavens Gate is about 40 minutes northeast of Düsseldorf.

Parkschloss Dali is about 1 hour East of Dortmund.

The two main FKK centers in Germany are Frankfurt and Cologne/Düsseldorf.

Frankfurt has the 3 mega-clubs, which are just much larger than any other club in Germany.

Cologne/Düsseldorf is the traditional home of FKK's and where they started (Bernd's Schieferhof about 20 years ago). these clubs are smaller and a little more homey, they don't have multiple pools and whirlpools and such, they are usually just rebuilt houses and alot have 12-20 girls working. the pricing scheme is also different club to club, but in general the ones in Cologne Düsseldorf are a little cheaper, or at least extras or add on time is cheaper.

If you are planning a trip to FKK's stick to these two areas. If you have a week and enough cash (about 350€ a day = entrance fee (average 50) + 3 sessions daily (about 175) + rental car (50) + gas (25) + cheap motel (50)) then I would do one day each at Atlantis, Oase &World, then head up do a short stop at Fantasyland on the same day go to Babylon and stay somewhere their, then you can go to Happy Garden in the morning and at midnight when they close or when you think you've seen all the talent head to Wildenrath which on Friday and Saturday stays open until 4AM (I would spend more time at wildenrath, but that is just my prerogative) then you can sample some of the Red Carpet clubs to bring your average cost down, and then finishe off a night in Park Schloss Dali which closes at 5AM. From there you can head down the highway back towards Frankfurt and finish you final day ine whichever of the 3 frankfurt clubs was your favourite (on that day you could skip a hotel completely) and then catch a flight home. even if you are young you might want to invest in Viagra before that sort of schedule, but it is possible.

Map

Best resource for research is Kaleus list http://www.kaleus-clubindex.de.vu/

Hope this helps

Peter

Just a quick update on my list.

There is a new club called Goldentime on the same street as Wildenrath about 12km away. This club is excellent from both facilities as well as the calibre of girls. It is developing itself to one of the top clubs in Germany. Basically the ´Golden Triangle of Wildenrath, Goldentime and Planet Happy Garden has developed itself to the best triumvirate of clubs in Germany, surpassing what World, Oase and Atlantis used to be. These are not megaclubs, but they are excellent, and the service and the girls and the pricing are superior to what is offered in the frankfurt area.

I must also note that Atlantis is closed and will probably remain so forever!

Peter

CBGBConnisur

06-14-05, 15:46

Babylon:
Pro's: Young girls, BBBJ to warm up on the couch, guaranteed DFK, they offer a decent buffet again, women are fully naked
Con's: I am not convinced on the cleanliness, especially in the contact room, the pricing structure is a bit steep, The customer base is quite old and seems to be regular.

Peter

I actually have to correct you on Babylon, I recently visited the club in April, and it was the first time I visited the place since August 2001, nearly four years. The experience was like meeting a long lost beautiful woman after many years and finding out the years weren't kind. Half of the women were well over 40, and there was this really tall one past her prime that was making passes at me, she was nice, but not what I would expect at this club. There were only about five women in their 20's and I think the best looking one was a 7. The buffet was mainly pasta with ragu and some kind of mystery meat, with salad. I never eat at clubs anyway because fucking on a full stomach makes me nauseous. However, the main attraction of this club, young sweaty and very luscious young women were not present. And on the afternoon I went all of the women were wearing clothes. Also I noticed the sweet smell of candy cinammon flavored gum emanating from the breaths of beautiful sweaty nude European women was replaced by the smell of Mr. Clean. Babylon isn't such a great club anymore. I couldn't believe this was the same club where I met that gorgeous mixed race German woman a few years earlier.

I visited a small place called FKK-Burg that same day on the outskirts of Bonn, it was a fairly modest club, but had two very hot German women on staff, one a Heather Locklear lookalike, the other a Paris Hilton clone. There was a third, who looked like Lois Lane from the first Superman movie, who didn't speak much English. Its near the Duisdorf Bahnhof in an alley near the Sparkasse Bonn.

Peter

06-14-05, 21:10

CBGB,

I haven't been there in a hell of a long time. Haven't really missed it. If I want to work near their price structure I would go to Schieferhof.

But your experience in Burg shows that any club, with any number of girls could be really good, all they need are 2-4 hot girls, and that is possible among 5 just as it is possible that it is not the case among 40.

Toki Jo

06-15-05, 00:29

Can someone advise me as to whether there are any FKK clubs close to Aachen please.

Thanks

Peter

06-15-05, 20:47

depends on what you mean by close

The closest is probably Babylon in elsdorf, which looks to be about 35 KM away. The way to Wildenrath/Goldentime and Ying Yang in roermond doesn't look all that far either, between 40 and 60 KM. It looks like you take the B57 to Alsdorf and then you get on the B221 and keep following it for about 30 KM and then you are in Wildenrath. 15 KM further and it is Goldentime.

If you turn off in Wassenburg and head to the dutch border it is about another 15km to Ying Yang.

So there are quite a few clubs close to Aachen, assuming you have a car.

CBGBConnisur

06-16-05, 01:41

Toki, don't waste your money on Babylon, go to PHG or Goldentime instead. BABYLON IS A DUMP. There is also FKK Samya, but it is in Koln or Cologne(in English). I think there is a club with Asian women only in Duisburg called Asia Sexhaus, might want to try that.

Yin Yang is in the Netherlands, and has a Dutch style price structure, its far more expensive than PHG and the girls there are paranoid, like typical Dutch girls, so don't expect BBBJs.

Wry Cooter

06-16-05, 02:03

CBGB,

I read in the Netherlands section that Yin Yang has its price structured similarly to Germany with BBBJ included. Badda Bing however is as you have described. I hope to confirm this in the fall on my way from Munich to Amsterdam. Have you tried either one?

Henio

06-16-05, 19:45

CBGB: What do you mean by Ying Yang having Dutch price structure? Based on my information, it has a 50e entrance fee and the price structure of the girls is the same as PHG.

You say the girls are paranoid there. What do you mean? You write as you have been to the place. Have you?

Chivaz

Peter

06-16-05, 19:53

Chivaz,

CBGB is working on old info. Ying Yang has been around forever, but has only switched to FKK price structure and service levels 2 months ago. When I was there about half the girls were from German clubs.

So price structure is the same as german FKK's, but I would still say Wildenrath or Goldentime are better.

CBGBConnisur

06-16-05, 22:55

When I speak about "paranoia" on the part of Dutch sex workers, I mean that they avoid certain things, almost no lady I met in the Netherlands does bbbj or cim, there are many who won't kiss on the mouth, and some are even nervous about daty. A friend of mine has visited Yin Yang and what he told me was that the club was expensive relative to German clubs, and the service he described was "clinical". I used to go to the Netherlands but stopped since visiting German FKK clubs, for the fact that they are cheaper and traveling in Germany is much cheaper than Amsterdam and the rest of Holland. The women in Germany aren't as paranoid as those in Amsterdam. To illustrate what I am talking about, I went to a prive in Amsterdam, and had a session with a Dutch girl, after the session, she was lying down, I got on my knees, pulled my condom off, and some cum spilled on to her tits, she jumped and started shreiking like a banshee, and ran for a bottle of rubbing alcohol, she screamed at me for not being more careful. In Germany, I have busted my nuts on many womens tits, none of them made a big deal out of it. In fact, many girls me the option of shooting my load in their mouths, this is a big no no in Holland, no lady in the Netherlands in my experience does this. On a side note, I was talking with my coworkers about death, and how eventually all of us are going to wind up dead. For my demise, I saw a Japanese anime called Golgo-13, believe it or not there was a scene where a guy was in an FKK in Germany, in Berlin, he was surrounded by thirty naked women, and they were all over him. He eventually in the scene got shot by the hitman, Golgo 13, but from that I said when its my turn to go, I'm going to take $30,000 and rent a whole fucking FKK club for a day, and I am going to fuck until I drop dead.

Peter

06-17-05, 21:25

CBGB,

Does this Golgo thing really take place in an FKK in Berlin? That would have to be La Folie.

Ying Yang is now 100% a FKK like the ones in Germany. Same price, same general service levels. I was there!

Wry Cooter

06-17-05, 23:41

I can't wait. Hopefully the openmindedness and affordability of FKK's will soon find itself influencing the brothels of Belgium, Switzerland, Austria and, God willing, the lovely Scandinavian countries as well. Sometimes I think the FKK's are the only thing keeping the entire airline industry from collapsing! I can't definitely vouch for the fact that there have been many a trans-Atlantic flight from the States simply to explore Germany's secret wonder.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the Dutch, who have de-criminalized both drugs and prostitution would still be so safety-conscious and almost misinformed when it comes to getting a little semen on your breasts?

CBGBConnisur

06-18-05, 17:15

No, Wry its the ultrapowerful US media, Hollywood and its other tentacle outlets, that indoctrinate Americans and the world, that the typical American woman is Angelina Jolie. I have ran into a lot of German customers in FKKs who have never visited the States, who think that most American women are on the level of Jolie. They'll be in a for a unpleasant surprise. As far as translatlantic flights I doubt too many people from the States go to Germany for FKKs, the last few times I flew there almost all the passengers with me were Europeans returning home from their vacation in the US, its still pretty much unknown to most Americans, except to those of us on this message board.

Peter

06-20-05, 02:02

The worst news I have heard in a long time, but from very reliable sources:

It looks like there are going to be way too many clubs opening in the Golden Triangle within the next 6 months.

The Goldentime people are opening another club in Mönchengladbach.

The Dolce Vita people have bought a large villa about 2KM down the street from Goldentime, which they will be turning in to an FKK too. Supposedly the villa is about double the size of Goldentime.

That means witht he addition of Ying Yang just across the dutch border there will soon be 6 major clubs within a totaldistance of 40KM in an area west of Düsseldorf, where the world did fine up till a year ago with two clubs.

Some might say that competition will improve the world for us. They are full of crap!

This will just spread the decent girls across more clubs, and the men will spread across more clubs and the atmosphere and the mood of the girls will majorly decline.

There will not be new women coming into the game. They have trouble finding decent new girls to get into the job as it is. I doubt they will get that many new custiomers who were not happy qith the choices available.

If the prices fall, then the service will fall as well as the quality of girl doing this job.

I wish the people would stop building all the clubs in the same region.

There are other areas like around Aachen where a club would make sense.

Stop screwing up the area!

Wanking

06-20-05, 16:26

Just in case any of the FKK entrepenuers are reading this : This is what you need to build, not just an FKK club but a complete FKK "resort". A place where a guy could go and stay for a week or a few days at a time. A Theme park for single men if you like, called Sex World. Obviously anyone could make daily visits also.

My dream FKk would be a mix between a good hotel, FKK club and Big Sister in Prague.

So what these guys need to do is buy/build a 100 room hotel , and keep 50 rooms for regular hotel use, then convert 25 rooms for sex use, and the other 25 for internet sex similar to Big sister in Prague where you can fuck for free.
There should be at least 100 women present everynight.

It should also have a regular sports bar to catch all the football/grand prix etc, this bar would also suit as a place to get a break from the sex if a guy was spending several days there,also drinks should be at regular prices. And a small regular cinema would nice to catch a few movies, after your fifth cum of the day, the latest Tom Cruise flick might be a nice change for a few hours. Also an Internet cafe for instant report posting. Maybe a small shop with English/american papers aswell.

Also It should have indoor and outdoor pools and whirlpools,steam, sauna etc. In the summer there could also be an outdoor bar and barbecue, aswell as big swings in the garden to fuck on! On the food side of things, a Chinese restaurant should be included as well as the regular Buffet.

There would be a huge surge in Foreign visitors if they could have it all under one roof. Also the place should be 10 minutes from an Airport.

Common someone please create my dream!!!!!!

Henio

06-20-05, 19:05

Here are my two cents into this issue:

Take almost any major city, and you will find the tourist sex thing overpriced underqulified, rip offs and just plain bad stuff. The FKKs are not so much a tourist thing yet. It is not known to that many outside of Germany. That means the girls have to some extend rely on repeat customers and reputation. This equals quality service in most cases.

Same goes with f.ex. the Spanish bar scene. Within the well travelled path of the big cities, it is crap. Go 20-25 km outside the city, and you will find some pretty good clubs that cater to locals. Tourists of course find their way to those clubs, but then it is on a different agenda, not the spur of the moment when you'r pissed drunk and decide to get some piece of ass.

Ask almost anyone, and they know of the Amsterdam or Prague scene. I bet that under 2% of them have ever heard of FKK. Excellent.

I don't want to have the FKKs more commercialised and too known outside Germany. It will ruin them. Yeah, I am selfish so what.

I agree with you Peter on the number of clubs. I remember when World first opened and then Atlantis reopened. It was damn difficult to keep track on who was where and the overall quality suffered for a while. If the clubs become too many, we will probably start seeing them trying too lure more tourists in = more single time visits, drunk assholes etc. It will fuck things up.

Chivaz

Wanking

06-20-05, 20:09

Chivaz,

Why do you bother posting on this international forum then?, why not just post on a German forum in the German language and then you would certainly minimize the numbers of potential foreign visitors.

F :)

Henio

06-20-05, 20:54

Hi Fred,

First of all I do not speak or write German very well. Yes, I am a tourist myself, although regularly in Germany for various of reasons.

Don't get me wrong here. My point is this: I support the exchange of information as much as possible for the serious punter as well as the occasional pleasure seeker. The problem however is when places such as Amsterdam etc. become tourist traps. I could lay out the economics of tourist traps as it is a well reasearched and documented field of study (would actually be fun to apply to P2P). It will result in overpriced items with bad service in most cases.

For those who go through the small trouble of studying where the good stuff is, great. Let the rest wander drunk in Amsterdam RLD or Prague Sex park. No need to drag them in while business is doing ok. It may start to happen if there will be too many clubs.

Don't want to sound to selfish, but then again, maybe I am ;-)

Chivaz

Peter

06-20-05, 22:10

Fred,

Your Idea makes no financial sense.

The legality of clubs, and the way they still work well is based on them making money only from the entrance fees of the men and women and not getting involved in the transactions between them in the clubs. That means all they earn is the entrance fee.

Look at the guys on this and other boards, they are cheap. We all are. Are you going to pay 150 dollars a day for entrance plus a room? That would be on the low side to run the sort of hotel you are thinking of. will the customers pay extra for the movies and food and the like, or will they cheap out and expect it to all be provided by the club.

If you want to do that then you have to do it super exclusive on a secluded tropical island and get the $1,000+ a day set, and do a full on luixury all inclusive resort with 25 of the absolute top ladies you can find.

Henio

06-20-05, 22:26

Hi Fred,

here is something that might come close to your dream place: http://www.blackbeardsadultresort.com/index.html

Never been there, but I think there are some reports on it on the Dominican Rep. section.

Chivaz

Peter

06-20-05, 22:33

But to do it right you need an internationakl array of girls.

I just saw a TV report on Big Sister. That is one place you will definitely never find me!

Ortos

06-20-05, 22:41

I agree 100% with Chivaz and his sentiments. Fred, you have definitely missed the point here. Chivaz echos my opinion exactly: FKK is a good thing. If it works, don't fix it. Do not raise the profile of these fkks by broadcasting it in bright neon lights across the globe. Do not take a nice fish from a small pond and move it into the sea: it will die or severly change itself in order to survive in the new environment. Let those of us who have either done the homework or have the luck to otherwise find out about it enjoy it. And also have respect for the the cultural context in which we find the Germany fkks. They are part of the German culture, so if anyone wants to make them some kind of an international Vegas-like attraction, then let them call horny "geil" (i.e. be Germans).

When those of us non-Germans or non-residents of Germany venture into these FKKs we are very tourists; special interest tourists, mind you: sex tourists! We should approach the whole experience just as if we were backpackers travelling to, say, Crete and hiking down a gorge where we might meet local shepards with their goats. Or we might wander into a Greek village and enter a small church and start admiring frescoes on the wall. We notice in the back of the church some locals preying. How do we behave? We are respectfull. We and the locals share the experience of the church or the gorge, perhaps in different ways, from different perspectives.

That's how we non-Germans should, in my opinion, behave when we enter the German FKKs. We "tourists" are part of the mix; even local German men will agree we serve a purpose. Thus we are tolerated, even welcomed sometimes. But it is a German game and so we non-locals should all attempt to join in the fun but be as non-intrusive as possible. Dreaming of Sex Resorts with all these facilities might be nice for a laugh, but they are completely unrealistic.

FKK tourism needs low-impact, high appreciation. Let it grow on its own merits, it doesn't need any help from us...

Henio

06-20-05, 22:44

You're right Peter, the girl selection there does not show much variety (and some of them have probably seen better days), but at least we can see that someone is trying to make this kind of business. But it is in D.R where labour is dirt cheap to run a resort like this. Wander if this would float in Germany?

They do not have free sex for showing your butt on the net though, but maybe it is a business opportunity the have missed :-)

Chivaz

Peter

06-20-05, 23:00

in the Düsseldorf area it is not just a german game. At leat half the people at PHG and Goldentime come over the boarder from Holland or Belgium. But that and the Japanese who work in Düsseldorf and the Brits in the military are the only real foreigners.

Catering to repeat business from locals is what does the most to ensure good service.

I like your spelling mistake of praying as preying!

Akibono

06-21-05, 04:45

Tourists already present a large percentage of the patrons of FKK clubs. I would estimate about 35% total. Probably close to 80% during Messe and 10% at other times. The advantage of tourists is the fact they bring big bucks. Locals tend to be more cheap and sometimes abuse the girls. What matters to the girls is 1) how much money they can make; and 2) how easy they can make it off the customers. In most places like Amsterdam, there is not a way to screen out the true players from the lookers. Thus, the girls get alot of harrassment and assholes. Their defensive mechanism is to screw everyone--especially the tourists since they are easy prey. Look what happened to World when they had a free opening. Lots of lookers and people who expect sex for free. The reason the FKKs work is that bad providers get weeded out and good ones are rewarded. The FKK presents an ideal situation for them to work. Anything that increases the profits for the girls is good because it attracts better providers. But this must go along with the incentive of better pay for better service and no pay for poor service. Perhaps an open rating system for the girls along with the time they have worked!

Wanking

06-21-05, 10:53

Peter I am not saying that it will happen in Germany, but I believe there is a market for resort style brothels in Europe. Also Im sure this idea could be realized somwhere like the Czech Republic or the Spanish islands for well less than $1000 a day.

Infact when you think about it : There are almost no suitable holiday destinations for alone single men over the age of 30 in Europe. Even take sex out of it and it doesnt get better. If a single man over 30 goes to the Greek Islands or the Spanish coast for a weeks holiday alone, he stands out like a sore prick because hes older than most people and everybody else is in groups.

If there was such a resort in Europe I would go for sure, and I am in no doubt that there would be also huge numbers of visitors from the US. There are millions of singles guys over 30 out there, who would like the idea of spending a few days relaxing in an environment where they could have easy sex, relax and not feel out of place.

Chivaz Ive heard of blackbeards but Im not that gone on black women to be honest, and I am not really bothered with Thailand either, cos Im not that gone on Thai women.

European Blonde women are my thing...

CBGBConnisur

06-21-05, 16:49

Fred, you should seriously look at South America, especially Brazil and Argentina, the level of women over there is worlds above Europe. Latin Blondes are pretty amazing when you get a look at them. Over 30 is not a big deal over there. Obviously the Greek Islands and Spain tend to be for young people in their early 20's. Tourists are a common site at Frankfurt area brothels due to its international reputation as a European center of commerce but in the most of the Ruhr clubs, the vast majority of customers are locals. Very few girls in those parts have met a foreigner.

Optimist

06-21-05, 16:59

I just want to support the perceptive and wise posts from Ortos, Chivaz, and Akibono. Excellently stated. We must be careful not to degrade the FKK environnment we are visiting. The key I think is to treat the workers with respect and as real people. This approach wil limit the tendency of girls to drift towards the RLD attitude. We also need to make it clear that we understand the ethos of return visits to the same club etc. -that we are part of the culture not just ignorant interlopers

Novize

06-21-05, 17:50

The atmosphere in FKK-clubs is going downhill already - at least in the three big clubs in the Rhein-Main-area.

It´s not the "tourists" responsibility, it´s the behaviour of a growing number of clients who live in Germany and feel superior to the women.

I don´t see any chance that this development might be stopped.

Enjoy the time left,

Novize

Henio

06-21-05, 20:29

Hi Novize,

You are right, but until last Saturday at the Ibiza party, I had not seen this at World in such an explicit way (seen it at Oase quite a few times). It got to the point it was so damn obnoxius that I just left, not much else I could do.

Sunday was great though, and now I understand your preference for Sundays at World.

Chivaz

Peter

06-21-05, 20:45

I think this development that Novize is talking about can be attributed to the oversupply of clubs. When there were fewer clubs and just as manya total customers, each club had plenty of guests. They knew they had to protect their capital, which was their girls. If the girls started seriously complaining about a guest, or if a group of guests got out of line, he was asked to leave, and sometimes asked never to come back.

Nowadays with many more clubs and not more customers (possibly less), the clubs are not really in a position to turn down customers.

I had a long talk with the manager of my favourite club. He realizes the old days aren't coming back, but he also does not want to compete at all costs. He is not interested in 19,90€ sessions and all the other things that might happen. I have seen him ask a customer or two politely to pay their bill in full, and not what they thought it was worth (people who went to the room for 58 minutes, came twice and basically brutalized the girl who then want to pay 50€). When the guy refused, he said, "no problem". Gave the girl the money out of his pocket, and told the customer to enjoy the rest of his stay, but that he would no longer be welcome there.

It is a shame that is not happening more. But with more clubs the ability to keep the club atmosphere free of annoying people will be tougher and tougher.

The only club I know of where there have never been problems is Schieferhof.

Henio

06-21-05, 20:51

Talking of a way to run a club: Any news of Melanie finding a place for club? I was never so lucky to visit Beach while under her management, but from what I hear, she knows her trade.

Chivaz

Peter

06-21-05, 21:02

Working girls rarely know how to run a club properly. There is a point to having empatrhy with the girls and knowing what they go through. But there are times when you have to be a man. The women only respect men in that sort of role. An ex-working girl is a great Madam or day manager at the club, but they are not that great in running the club.

Sometimes there is another side to the game. Like at the moment the talent level has generally dipped. world is full with Romanians, and that seems to be the only source of their women. PHG and Wildenrath (who both have the same owner) are noticing there are plenty of traditional eastern europeans in the game, but they have skimmed the best they can get out of polad, czech and those countries. They are on the lookout in Lithuania and estonia at the moment, because they are not really that present yet, and in Lithuania prostitution is illegal. They are also in contact with people in South america to do some recruiting.

And regarding the vacation resort. Go to any german travel agency ad ask for vacation destinations for the single over 30's, and there are tonnes of resorts catering to them in every price category. There are others for single parents. the whole spectrum is there. If you have any money then there are a couple of Robinson Clubs which are especially single friendly. An ex GF of mine went there once. She is 25, but has enough money. She said it was a little pathetic, tonnes of 40+ guys, and since she was the youngest there she was getting hit on by all of them.

The women 30-40 who were looking to get laid or meet a guy were hating her, because she was attracting all the men, even though she didn't want them.
This is a somewhat seedy underbelly which is necessary to do well in this business, and most ladies can't cut it.

Peter Kin

06-22-05, 06:33

I was able to visit three Frankfurt area clubs for the first time at the end of May and was surprised at the difference between them.

At Oase the girls were very pushy, but on the other hand they would get started on you almost anywhere - full sex in kino even. I found they generally had a bad attitude and the quality was between 4 and 7. One thing though, they had towels in abundance.

By contrast the girls at World were very laid back, standing or sitting around in groups. I was almost never propositioned by a girl. They would never start anything except in a room, except for a kiss in the kino. The quality was 4 to 7, and there was a major shortage of towels.

At Palace I found the best girls, averaging 6 to 8 or 9, with a mix of attitudes as you would expect. I had two visits here and there is an increasing trend to wearing mini skirts., and it was not a dressed-up day. The attitudes were more relaxed, kissing was encouraged. I had one great session (my last) with a Colombian girl and she deliberately left the curtains open for added spice! Be warned though - if you are a larger size be sure to ask for a large towel.

If you are staying in Frankfurt I would say to forget World and Oase and the long train and taxi rides, and spend your time at Palace.

Just one punter's opinion.

Pete

Optimist

06-22-05, 08:03

I can really only talk about World and Oase. I know for certain that the World staff will make a customer pay what he is supposed to - a month ago a customer was marched to his car to get money after he refused to pay for "extras" he had had. This is welcome - as Peter said it is part of enforcing standards.

In contrast when I complained at Oase (the only time I have ever complained at an FKK) I was met with total indifference and they implied I didn't know what I was doing - this can only encourage the girl concerned to continue to rip-off clients

Novize asks how we can stop any downward trend. The problems are perhaps due to oversupply and therefore more competition for money (meaning as Peter says that the girls need to have a harder edge to cut it) etc. The resulting high turnover of girls can lead to something of red light area attitude in soem girls. We can't do anything about that, apart from treat them like people and make sure we don't go with ones who only give 10 minutes sessions. The key to helping continue a proper FKK ethos is to make return trips to a club so the girls recognise you as a valued customer

Novize says "It´s not the tourists' responsibility, it´s the behaviour of a growing number of clients who live in Germany and feel superior to the women" - from Cordelia's experience this seems to be accurate - I was trying to say that as tourists we can do our bit. The girls quickly get to know any horrible customers and tend to avoid them - and of course if the horrible customers are frogmarched out as happens at World occasionally, they will not come back

I'm not pessimistic about the future - I remember being given poor service at Atlantis much more often than has happened on visits in the last six months to World, Oase and Palace.

Henio

06-22-05, 12:43

Hi Shiatsu,

"I know for certain that the World staff will make a customer pay what he is supposed to"

Your are absolutely right about that, but that's about it in terms of protection. A guy can pretty must molest the girl in the room and get away with it. "What happens in the room happens in the room" as one girl put it. I am quite surprised how casually some girls can describe what I would think as horrifying experiences, they develop their internal protective mechanisms pretty fast I guess.

I am concerned about this for pretty selfish reasons because I hate going to a room with a girl and feeling her stress level as she has no idea how she will be treated, and the service level is according to that.

I don't want pimps for protection within the clubs, but I think management could be a little more concerned about the behaviour of some guests.

Chivaz

Wanking

06-22-05, 13:54

Here is what the management at World should do:

1. Install CCTV in all rooms.

2. Upon entry to the club, issue all guys with a utility belt, thats contains a battery pack, and also two wired remote controlled adhesive electrodes.

3. After putting clothes in lockers, guys will attach the electrodes to the testiciles.

4.If a client becomes abusive in the room, a 10 second electric shock will be administered by the person viewing the monitors.

No more problems

CBGBConnisur

06-22-05, 14:12

Isn't the club run by the Hell's Angels? I'm sure they know how to handle rough clientele. I wouldn't mind hiring them to deal with the concierge at the Steigenberger hotel, I stayed there last November, paid nearly 400 dollars for a room that was freezing cold. I should have known better to stay at the Intercity for a quarter of that, and could have spent the remaining 300 at a good club.

Henio

06-22-05, 18:54

Hi Fred,

Your solution will only handle the nice ones that are not problem. The electric shock will only arouse the kinky ones :-)

One would still think that a club run by Hells angels or whatever would have some basic means of protecting the girls.

Chivaz

Peter

06-22-05, 19:36

CBGB,

Do you delete all your posts?

The rest:

It is the job of club management to provide a good atmosphere for prostituion. Both from the perspective of the customer as well as the provider.

In order to ensure this they have to make sure that the price structure is clear and adhered to. That means stopping girls from overcharging or making up prices, or refusing service for the agreed upon house prices. It also means ensuring that all customers pay the full bill for their services. This should not be done with a detailed list and bill for each customer, but in case of arguments or misunderstandings they should step in and maintain order.

Should a customer continually try to cheat girls on their bill, he should be asked to permanently leave the club. The shame should apply for a girl who tries to cheat customers. Schieferhof has the "two complaint" rule. Two customer complaints within a reasonable time frame (about 3 months) and you are asked to leave the club. Some girls are dropped within a week, and others have been there for more than ten years. The earning potential and atmosphere in that club keeps the line long of girls wanting to work there.

Regarding the attitude of the guests and the girls outside and inside the room. The club should make sure that there are house rules that the girls follow which should seek to lessen the building of chat groups, where 5 girls sit in a corner talking to themselves and scaring the customers off. The girls should foster the atmosphere of interest and availability. If there are certain girls that continually disrupt this (everyone has a bad day) they should be removed. The same is for guests. If there are guests who get loud and beligerent, or in any other way make the place not comfortable for others, they should be asked to leave, perhaps even getting their entrance fee back to avoid unnecessary discussions. It used to be that many clubs weren't letting in groups of more than 4 men, and often groups of certain ethnic groups (also multiple people together) as they had a certifiable history of letting the group dynamic become unruly. One of these groups is white american soldiers, so it is not completely racial.

Then if it comes to "in room" stuff. The same needs to apply. If a customer complains about the girls service level, the girl should be called to give her side of the story (in private after the guest has left). If these reports become frequent, or if they are believeable, the club owner should investigate. Perhaps talking a regular guest to give the girl a try (maybe offer a money back guarantee) and see whether the service level is really below normal. I remember at Samya once I complained about a girl who would not kiss (I have pretty much perfect teeth and don't smoke, she just claimed that she never kisses). They said it was club standard, in the meantime they write it explicitly on the profile of each girl on the homepage. It is understood by all girls, if they don't accept it work someplace else.

If a girl comes into the office and complains about the treatment by a male customer (really rough or disrespectful), then the club should keep an eye on this customer with the CCTV in the public rooms (never CCTV in rooms, would not fly) and see who this guy goes to the room with for the next session. Immediately after the session take that girl into the office (say she has a phone call or something) and find out what the session was like. If the guy is definitely a rough guest, have the management of the club have a brief and polite (not threatening) word with him about what sort of respect the women deserve. Perhaps keep him under general observation, on this and future visits. If he does not change his way, throw him out of the club forever.

This is the way that clubs used to be run. I am talking about 2 or 3 years ago. I saw it a lot in Happy Garden, and Wildenrath, even PArkschloss Dali. It still is the case in Schieferhof, but I have never seen an incident there, and the regular customers know what all the rules are.

The problem has been the proliferation of clubs.

There are so many clubs, that they have to fight hard to get their share of the same number of girls, and the same number of guys. They are not in as strong a negotiation position, bioth with the girls and the guys.

When there were fewer clubs, the club could better afford to kick a girl out or bar a customer. Now, in order to stay in business they have to accept a lot more from both sides. The problem is it ruins the whole atmosphere of the club, and makes the experience bad for all involved.

I wish more clubs would do more to combat this problem.

Henio

06-22-05, 20:19

Peter,

Excellent, this is just they way it should be run.

I actually sometimes wish CBGB would in fact delete all his post ;-) but then once in a while (every 100 post or so) there is something of substance.

On to another thing: Can any of you guys tell me a bit about Bad Nauheim as a place to hang for a few days. I was thinking of making that town my base camp for my next trip to the FRA area clubs.

Chivaz

Henio

06-23-05, 01:03

I have a good idea for the Kinos at places such as World and Oase:

Instead of showing that crappy porn they have usually running, they should pay internet membership to the Big Sister club and show that in the Kino. Think about it, you are getting a bbbj in the Kino, and in another country is Fred having some free fun in Big Sister waving to us. We would of course wave back :-)

I think this would make the Kino experience much more fun and even get that dull World kino going.

Wanking

06-23-05, 10:21

LOL Chivaz :)

CBGBConnisur

06-25-05, 03:24

When I visited a small club in Bonn, a German client asked me about services in the US. I immediately gave this poor soul a very strong warning about American women aka Americunts, the worst women on the planet. I have been to nearly 36 different countries in virtually every region of the planet Earth, I told him from my experience, American women rank dead last. I told him that FKK type clubs do not exist in the US, and selling or buying a prostitute's services is a criminal act in virtually every county of the US and can get you in serious trouble. I told him that even if he found a woman, she would be subpar or too expensive, I remember New York call girls who would be merely average by FKK standards, charge nearly $1000US for a half hour( a half hour in New York is ten minutes in Dusseldorf), the really good ones are ridiculously expensive. I told him that I left the US and live in Australia, if he wanted something different, I told him to try out Australia if he wanted a different experience, and maybe also visit and shag some women in Singapore and Malaysia, those three places offer much better sex than the US, and a different alternative to Europe, as this German customer was bored and wanted something "different". I recommended a nice club in Sydney, which has views of the Opera House and Harbor, I told him he could look at the beautiful scenery while he was 69ing some Aussie blonde or an Asian babe. Remember, don't go to the US for pussy, I told him, go there for other things, wide open spaces, the right to own your gun, the opportunity to get rich, the right to say whatever you want, the best movie theaters and theme parks in the world, those things that America has that the world doesn't. I went on and told him that Frankfurt was an Orlando for pussy mongerers, and Palace, Oase, and World, like the Walt Disney World of Pussy. I think he got more depressed after I discouraged him. The US gets compared to the Roman Empire, yet the Romans had better pussy. I guess in light of things I am the American equivalent of Maximus Decimus Moridius, I love America but think American women are cunts, and am living in exile in the land down under, which has much better quality pussy than the US.

Ortos

06-25-05, 05:29

"Can any of you guys tell me a bit about Bad Nauheim as a place to hang for a few days. I was thinking of making that town my base camp for my next trip to the FRA area clubs."

Chivaz,

I don't know specifically why you are trying to avoid Frankfurt --perhaps because of traffic or hotel rooms too expensive or what-- but why do you specifically pick Bad Nauheim as an alternative accomodation base? Is it because of location between the various clubs you might visit?

Sometimes during large Messe events in Frankfurt, when hotel room prices there are just too over the top, I have taken refuge in Bad Homburg, which is well situated for Oase of course. But also just next to the A5 for World and a short jump for Palace in Frankfurt (A5 to A61 exit Hausen, etc.). Also BH has a nice atmosphere, lots of good restaurants (expensive, though), a good park, thermal baths, and a speilbank! A decent selection for hotels too...probably a stronger candidate than Bad Nauheim...

Optimist

06-25-05, 08:09

I've tried Nad Nauheim. Has the advantage of being near (if you have a car) to World and Oase. If you like architecture it has amazing spa buildings (Jugendstil I think but I could be completely wrong about the style - not my speciality), and it's only a few minutes from Butzbach with its lovely town square The Dolce hotel is good, but prices are only a little lower than Frankfurt. The downside is that it is not a big city. FD Roosevelt spent holidays there with his parents, and Elvis Presley was also connected with the place

Henio

06-25-05, 11:50

Hi Ortos and Shiatsu,

The reason I ask is that I will probably be there 26-29 August, and there is messe in Frankfurt. I checked out Bad Homburg, and it seems they are running on the messe rate at the time. From looking on a map, I noticed Bad Nauheim as convenient for its proximity to World as well as Frankfurt, and I found a very reasonable priced hotel there that looks to be ok.

My plans only include World at this time in terms of FKK, but might spring by Oase just to check things out. As I will have to do at least 2 trips into Frankfurt centre, I want to place myself somewhere in the middle between World and Frankfurt. Any other suggestion?

Chivaz

Optimist

06-25-05, 16:26

If you have a car I don't think it makes much difference - as long as you stay near the autobahn. Bad Nauheim, Butzbach, or any other town around there. The difference is no more than 10 minutes - any problems are likely to come at the Frankfurt end (south of Bad Homburg) if you are travelling at peak times.

If you are going into FFM centre maybe train might work best at busy times of day?

Travelforfun

06-26-05, 15:18

Check out www.lust-agent.de

Some really helpful information about FKK's, Partytreff and escorts in Germany.

Pretty updated details with address and contact numbers.

If anyone finds some site with FKK or Partytreff pictures do share

Iseeu

06-26-05, 17:28

Shit, I forgot to JUST IGNORE HIM

When I visited a small club in Bonn, a German client asked me about services in the US. I immediately gave this poor soul a very strong warning about American women aka Americunts, the worst women on the planet. I have been to nearly 36 different countries in virtually every region of the planet Earth, I told him from my experience, American women rank dead last. I told him that FKK type clubs do not exist in the US, and selling or buying a prostitute's services is a criminal act in virtually every county of the US and can get you in serious trouble. I told him that even if he found a woman, she would be subpar or too expensive, I remember New York call girls who would be merely average by FKK standards, charge nearly $1000US for a half hour( a half hour in New York is ten minutes in Dusseldorf), the really good ones are ridiculously expensive. I told him that I left the US and live in Australia, if he wanted something different, I told him to try out Australia if he wanted a different experience, and maybe also visit and shag some women in Singapore and Malaysia, those three places offer much better sex than the US, and a different alternative to Europe, as this German customer was bored and wanted something "different". I recommended a nice club in Sydney, which has views of the Opera House and Harbor, I told him he could look at the beautiful scenery while he was 69ing some Aussie blonde or an Asian babe. Remember, don't go to the US for pussy, I told him, go there for other things, wide open spaces, the right to own your gun, the opportunity to get rich, the right to say whatever you want, the best movie theaters and theme parks in the world, those things that America has that the world doesn't. I went on and told him that Frankfurt was an Orlando for pussy mongerers, and Palace, Oase, and World, like the Walt Disney World of Pussy. I think he got more depressed after I discouraged him. The US gets compared to the Roman Empire, yet the Romans had better pussy. I guess in light of things I am the American equivalent of Maximus Decimus Moridius, I love America but think American women are cunts, and am living in exile in the land down under, which has much better quality pussy than the US.

Peter

06-27-05, 01:19

Iseeu,

Lay off CBGB, his posts in the last few months have been very constructive. I see nothing wrong witht he one you copied.

Akibono

06-27-05, 03:04

If you are going to both Oase and World, I would stay in Gissen. It is far enough away not to be affected by the Messe and you can always drive down to World.

Hi Ortos and Shiatsu,

The reason I ask is that I will probably be there 26-29 August, and there is messe in Frankfurt. I checked out Bad Homburg, and it seems they are running on the messe rate at the time. From looking on a map, I noticed Bad Nauheim as convenient for its proximity to World as well as Frankfurt, and I found a very reasonable priced hotel there that looks to be ok.

My plans only include World at this time in terms of FKK, but might spring by Oase just to check things out. As I will have to do at least 2 trips into Frankfurt centre, I want to place myself somewhere in the middle between World and Frankfurt. Any other suggestion?

Chivaz

Bruce Ley

07-07-05, 18:01

Do any of the FKKs have a private or semi-private whirlpool/hot tub where you can have foreplay with the ladies? I've been to Atlantis and Palace, and neither seemed to have one.

Thanks in advance.

Peter

07-07-05, 20:04

Bruce,

There a quite a few places with what you are looking for.

At Wildenrath there are two rooms upstairs which have double tubs with some whirlpool jets. I haven't seen them used in a long time, and there is no water in them, but it can be filled. I think a girl told me it is 25€ extra to use the tub in those rooms.

goldentime has one or two rooms with a similar tub as well, I know there is an upcharge as well

I don't think that Happy Garden does, but I might be wrong.

Babylon does to the best of my recollection.

Schieferhof has such a tub room as well, but there is an additional charge which is either 25 or 50€.

I thought there were two rooms with this at World as well.

Otherwise I have seen a lot of people get pretty up close and personal in the public whirlpools in Oase, World, Atlantis and Goldentime.

Stano

07-08-05, 19:00

Do any of the FKKs have a private or semi-private whirlpool/hot tub where you can have foreplay with the ladies? I've been to Atlantis and Palace, and neither seemed to have one.There is a room with a private whirpool in saunaclub Yin Yang in Roermond (Netherlands, not far from the german border en from goldentime). I think there is no extra charge but the minimum time for using this room is 1 hour.

I don't know another fkk with such a facility. I was already in Oase, Palace, World, Goldentime, PHG and Samya and never heard about a private whirlpool in a room.

Peter

07-09-05, 09:30

Stano,

In World it is in the room on the upper floor just before the stairs that go downstairs.

In goldentime it is in the room behind the Movie Theatre. Seen both rooms with the whirlpool tub quite clearly, and knwo that they exist.

The one at Schieferhof the girls have to ask at the counter whether they can use that room (the middle one downstairs) if it is without the whirlpool upcharge, but only if all the other rooms are full.

Park Schloss Dali in Marsberg (middle of nowhere, but good club) also has whirlpool rooms.

Travelforfun

07-09-05, 14:23

Apology for being off topic but has anyone been or has info about FKK-Bluenote?

www.saunabluenote.de

From the site looks like a kool place and some nice girls.

Please do share info about service and price structure.

CBGBConnisur

07-09-05, 22:20

I nearly went to that club last fall while I was in Deutschland, the Turkish cab driver who took me there insisted I go to Dolce Vita which in his opinion is a better club than Blue Note. I wound up going to DV, and it was a terrible experience, it only took 3 short years for the quality of women to drop and the facilities to fade. The saunas were broken, the showers barely worked, the moment you turned the knob you would be hit with a hard blast of lukewarm water. Still there are other good clubs in that region. Better to go to further to Krefeld and go to PHG, or go to Cologne and try out Samya or Mondial(which I believed reopened in December after extensive renovation). I spent some time walking the streets of Dusseldorf around the Hbf, took note of the fact that German polizei now well armed, some areas that looked nicer and more vibrant in the past, looked faded, for some reason, some parts of Dusseldorf reminded me of photos of Depression era Brooklyn, a construction worker in an imbiss made a very bleak prediction for what will happen in Germany in a decade(In zehn jahr, krieg im Deutschland), alluding to the growing disaparity between rich and poor Germans will lead to a civil war in Germany in a decade. The Euro, the war in Iraq, and 9-11 really transformed the Europe I used to remember in the past, the one that I used to idealize, seems as if the conflicts in the Mideast are bringing back some dark memories of the past in Europe. Went to my hotel, played a DVD of my old love(who was lost to this brutal world) on a vacation with me during happier times, and with a tear in my eye, took a drink of brandy and went to sleep, hoping to go to another, better world.

Wanking

07-09-05, 23:03

Most of my mates will never make it to an FKK club, but they are curious since I have been,

I wonder are there any videos or DVDs available, either porn movies that may have been shot in the clubs or some sort of documentries???

Wanking

07-09-05, 23:06

Ok i found something, anyone seen this?

http://www.**********.com/videos/vxfkkr.html

Wanking

07-09-05, 23:08

http://www.dexterh*rn.com/videos/vxfkkr.html

replace the * with an o

Nicklas123

07-09-05, 23:12

Akibono

07-09-05, 23:38

Just go to bigsister.com. It's a fkk in Prague with videos so you can see the action. Good example of a FKK for someone who is too timid or prudish to venture out.

Peter

07-09-05, 23:56

FM,

That does look pretty accurate, and it was definitely filmed in te outdoor pool area of Atlantis.

I hate that site, but apparently they have managed a DVD.

SK,

Although I like the whistful ramblings of CBGB on this, I have actually been to Blue Note a couple of times. The reasons a turkish cab driver would take CBGB (Who says he is partially turkish himself) to DV is because pretty much 90% of the customers at DV are Turkish, and they probably offer the highest bonus for cab drivers for bringing people there. DV is generally a piece of crap, and I will not be going back there for quite some time.

Blue Note is probably the best club in the city of Düsseldorf. It has pricing more like a real fkk. Entrance is 55€ (plus 5€ refundable deposit for the key) and then each 30 minute session is 30€. They also have appartments where you can get a girls for 115€ for an hour, and then you are not in the club. This club is the easiest one to reach by public transit from downtown. I think it is like 15 minutes from Jan Wellen Platz on the 712 or 706. I forgot which one.

My current top love in any club works there, but she is one of the ones without a picture on the homepage. Her name is Annette and she is a 23 year old Polish blonde who could be the prettiest girl working in a club anywhere in Germany. Her service is excellent too, but we really get along, and she remembered me well even though there was 6 months between my visits. I have also been with Nicole the Hungarian who is pictured. She has amazing tits, and is otherwise rather attractive, but not gorgeous.

The atmosphere of the place is a bit like a dentist office, adn the place has no facilities for hanging out. The rooms don't have real doors, and I think the music is too loud in the rooms, but if you are stuck in Düsseldorf without a car, it is the easiest place to get to.

They are celebrating their 10 year anniversary at the moment and have 39€ entrance, so you save 16€.

Wanking

07-10-05, 01:24

Akibono,

Bigsister is not an FKK club, Ive been there several times now and its a regular czech brothel that happens to be online, and the only real advantage is you can fuck for free.

But it just does not compare at all to say FKK Palace, the performances of the girls and the general athmosphere are way inferior. Also the girls are all clothed in the bar area.

Ive posted several reports in the Prague section about Big sister. I would not bother even going to Big sister If i had to pay, but for free its great.

Iseeu

07-10-05, 21:32

Peter's info as usual is mostly right on the money. I was there for a few hours in the early evening about 6 weeks ago. Club is ok, but if you're used to regular FKK quantity and quality, and level of facilities, you won't find it here. It's main advantage is accessibility. IMO, better to rent a car and head out to one of the big 3, all 30- 40 minutes driving from D-dorf or a local party treff.
One clarification- the 10th year anniversary 30% discount is only available on weekends.
BTW- the Big Sister website is www.xxxxxxxxx.net and not xxx.com

CBGBConnisur

07-11-05, 00:25

I typically spend about a total four months of the year traveling around the world, usually dividing the time between Europe, South America, and Asia, and a rare visit back to the sex deprived superpower, the United States of America, my old home. Two months are dedicated strictly to pleasure travel, and the rest business. When I am in Germany I tend to mix both business and pleasure but this is not the case elsewhere for some strange reason, I guess I know more about Germany's adult entertainment offerings than anywhere else. Its was a Californian by the name of Eric Dexter who introduced me to the FKK hobby, since then he has now changed his focus from Germany to Thailand and Brazil. As far as sex is concerned I prefer European and South American ladies over Asians, I remember at Babylon it was the opposite, there were guys waiting in line to fuck a Thai who was working there, while I paid her no attention, told the guys in the club they would find plenty of Asian totty in Oceania. I prefer more voluptuous and luscious European and Latin women, some of the Middle Eastern women in Germany(the Turks, Persians, and Arabics) look very Latin looking btw.

Wanking

07-11-05, 01:40

CBGBConnisur

what business are you in?

Peter

07-11-05, 21:37

CBGB,

Was that on the old CFIT tours?

CBGBConnisur

07-12-05, 00:12

Yep, Eric Dexter himself of ********** introduced me to the FKK hobby, the last time I went, Eric traveled to Germany taking tourists about 6 times a year. His enthusiasm though for the FKK scene faded, now he goes to Thailand and Brazil, which are his new favorites. I think his old partner still promotes the FKK tours.

Kuber

07-13-05, 20:03

I have visited a number of RLD's all around the world. It seems CBJ's are almost a norm in most places and CIM almost a no no. But I am really surprised how BBBJ and CIM and more have survived in FKK set up (almost 90% of girls do it). Why would girls come to FKK when they can be safer elsewhere. Once an FKK lady asked me after a CIM whether I had been tested for HIV. I hastened to tell her that she should have asked this question before taking my tool in her mouth or even before taking the cum in!

Are there unwritten ruls within FKK setups when girls come in to work which makes them agreeable to do the risky BBBJ or CIM I wonder? When I can make the same amount of money in Sudfass or RLD and be safe why would I come to work in an FKK. Any thoughts?

While it is what keeps me comingh to FKKs I am very curious?

Yep, Eric Dexter himself of ********** introduced me to the FKK hobby, the last time I went, Eric traveled to Germany taking tourists about 6 times a year. His enthusiasm though for the FKK scene faded, now he goes to Thailand and Brazil, which are his new favorites. I think his old partner still promotes the FKK tours.

Guy #2

07-14-05, 03:43

from your comments about race, you sound a little insecure. this is germany and these are escorts. anyone will overlook your race for 200 eur an hour. perhaps you should try counseling. there are several support groups in berlin that offer support for people with low self esteem.

just to weigh in on this, i spent 18 months in germany recently due to being called up for active military duty. i fell in love with the place. i am african american and i felt completely at home in germany. overall, the germans treated me better than most of the white americans i had to interact with over there. i also saw more interracial couples (german women & african american soldiers) than i have seen anywhere else. i never visited a fkk club but i did visit a few euro centers. i got rejected by a few girls but there were many more girls who were more interested in my money than the color of my skin. in short, the germans just don't have that many hang ups whether it be speed limits, drinking, smoking, nudity, pornography or sex. that's why germany is such a great place (especially in the summertime; germans girls and bicycles-you can't beat that type of scenery!). if you're a man on the prowl, germany is the closest thing to paradise.

Optimist

07-14-05, 11:17

1. Tripod and Guy 2. I thought Tripod was reasonable to simply report that he had been rejected - but it might not necessarily have been because of race. Guy 2 rightly suggests that sometimes the assumption that rejection is because of race is wrong. On the other hand some girls are definitely very racist - as a white man I have heard it from them - usually the worst comments are for gypsies, then Turks, then Black people. So sometimes rejection will be because of racist attitudes

2 Safety. There have been many discussions about the safety of BBBJ and CIM. The assessment of risk is difficult but so far as HIV is concerned the risk is I believe theoretical rather than actual. Other diseases can be dealt with quite quickly. If I were a girl I would be more worried about the health risks associated with using condoms for intercourse all the time (just to be clear I am not suggesting that they should not be used - the health consequences of not using condoms are much much more serious).

So far as I know, it is very rare for a frequent visitor to FKKs to pick up an infection. I think visiting an FKK is much less risky than driving to work every day.

From a girl's point of view the FKK may be a much pleasanter environment to work in than RLD

Euro100

07-14-05, 13:03

Perhaps to amplify on Shiatsu's remarks: On my recent FKKW romp it had 22 sessions in five visits during a two week span. Granted that I gave some girsl repeat business, I still had sex with more than 10 different girls. These girls, in turn, have sex with an average of ... I don't know ... maybe six to over ten guys in a single shift. This makes for tight connections between everybody on the forum. I have sex with a girl who has sex with a guy who has sex with another girl who has sex with ... yes, you! This short connection with two girls and one other guy in between can probably be established somehow between me and whoever reads this and has ever had sex in FKKW. Or between any tow arbitrary guys. And with most regular posters the pairwise connection is even tighter, because many of us have humped the same girl, say Andrea.

Add to this DFK, BBBJ, CIM, DATY (21 out of 22 sessions for me, only exception Julia), and one can only come up with one conclusions: FKKW or any similar of the high-class clubs must be a pretty clean place. Health controls by the "authorities" and frequent washing (I shower after EVERY encounter :), but I learned that certainly not all girls do :( ) must be doing the job. Otherwise we'd all be carrying some desease.

euro

CBGBConnisur

07-14-05, 15:32

I hate to burst your bubble, but a friend of mine, who is a US Marine, and of Mexican descent, couldn't keep the ladies off of him when he was in Germany. Women left and right flocked to him and treated him like a superstar, its something he knows he wouldn't receive back home. I don't think most West German women are racist. Some Eastern Europeans are very racist, its mostly the Poles and the Czechs. Then again some Eastern European women aren't particularly the Russians and Bulgarians.

Peter

07-14-05, 20:43

Kuber,

The girls cannot earn nearly as much money in Sudfass or RLD's because most of the customers have gone to the RLD's. In RLD's you start at 30€, and you have to pay over 100€ a day room rental. There it is all about ripping guys off, and most of the guys have realized this in the meantime. There are some FKK girls that used to RLD, and they moan about how they now actually have to perform for their money. there are getting to be too many FKK's, but they still have more customers willing to spend money than the other alternatives.

Germany has the 8th lowest prevalence of aids (as a percentage) of any country in the world (according to CIA factbook, among 169 countries), so the risk of HIV is slight. Gonnorhea can also be had orally, but that is basically a cycle of Cipro and it is gone.

Supply and demand is the reason. Guys flock to where they get good service at a fair price. Hence it is where girls can earn a decent living too. The atmosphere and the calibre of the average customer is also way above the RLD room scene. She can feel more like a sex goddess than a store keeper sitting in her doorway. The itneraction with the guests can be a lot more natural too.

Girls out to make money by offering no service and making money by ripping guys off will never feel comfortable in an FKK, but who wants those girls anyway.

CBGBConnisur

07-15-05, 15:39

The AIDS statistic is calculated among German nationals and permanent residents. I believe Germany requires any foreign nationals living in the country to get a medical exam from a local doctor including a chest x-ray and an HIV test. I'm not sure if this is enforced because a friend of mine got a residency permit without it. Germany's HIV infection rate is lower than the USA, you're six times more likely to get infected in America than in Germany, interesting because I find it easier to get a German woman to spread her legs for me than American, its a lot easier, German women seem to be a lot more open about sex.

Hessen Bub

07-23-05, 18:37

I believe Germany requires any foreign nationals living in the country to get .... an HIV test.

That's bullshit. In Germany nobody can be forced to have a HIV-test done.

Hessen Bub

Toki Jo

07-24-05, 22:48

Would someone let me know the nearest FKK near Arnhem and Nijmegen please. I know Yin Yang is close by but are there any german clubs.

Ortos

07-25-05, 06:31

"Would someone let me know the nearest FKK near Arnhem and Nijmegen please. I know Yin Yang is close by but are there any german clubs."

If you take the ICE train that runs from Amsterdam CS to Duisburg via Arnhem (3rd stop out of CS) then you can easily access PHG outside Krefeld.
Get off ICE at Duisburg, then S-bahn to Krefeld Hbf, then taxi to PHG at Oedt.
FKK GoldenTime outside Brueggen is also not far away.

Novize

07-25-05, 08:49

I received a pm this morning concerning Alena. She was angry that someone (so far she doesn´t know who) wrote about her on the Internet.

Another client had told her that he had information about her from the internet.

Please, guys, don´t mention information you received from here towards the girls. Those who write might have to argue with the girls and lose some nice mongering opportunities if the girls can identify the source of information!

If you can´t keep your mouth closed about this forum and the reports, you will force us not to write anymore and keep the information for ourselves!

And in the end this would be of no good for anyone.

Have fun,

Novize

Bruce Ley

07-25-05, 10:18

Funny, because last year I had this stunningly beautiful and tall (182 cm) Lithuanian blonde practically plead with me to include a positive report about her and her services. Different strokes for different girls.

Peter

07-25-05, 20:32

It is never a good idea to let girls know you have anything to do with the internet. At my home club there are some girls who still won't go to the room with me because they heard I write on the internet. I have pretty much retired from the german sites, and I rarely write in as much detail as I used to, but still a tonne of girls are deathly afraid of the internet. DO NOT MENTION ANY FORUMS, EVER!

Toki Joe,

YingYang is about 20 km from Wildenrath, which is another 20 KM from Goldentime, and that is another 20 KM from Happy Garden. I think if oyu go across the border at Nijmegen that you are close to Dorsten, where Heavensgate FKK is, but check out Kaleu's list.

I only know big towns, my geography isn't that great.

Ortos

07-25-05, 21:42

Novize,

Thanks for bring this important message to public attention. Each of us has his/her own view on things and how we deal with writing reports and mixing our visits to FKKs with our presence on the Internet.

I personally hold these two principles as paramount:

1) Never, ever reveal to any FKK girl that you are even aware of the Internet or read, post or participate in any way in Message Boards about FKKs. It stands to reason that if you just ignore the fact that there is an Internet whilst in the FKKs and whilst sessioning, then you will never have a problem. I just don't talk about the Internet with the girls, so it never becomes an issue.

2) At the same time, when I do participate in Internet chat about FKKs, esp. when I write reports about my experiences with specific girls, I make it a point to be specific about who I am writing about, so that others who have been there can share in the recognition of the subject matter, and those who have not been there, but might go in the future, know exactly who the fuck I am talking about. That stands for positives, negatives and in betweens. I personally abhor the use of cryptic descriptions and anagrams that only one or two or a few may know. I just steer clear of them.

I firmly believe in brutal honesty and exposure in these reports. But that does not contradict my policy of just not revealing to the girls that I am participant in Internet chat about them. Each of these principles compliments the other. Any girl in an FKK who does not think that they will be spoken about amongst fellow monger groups, or written about on the Internet in the same fashion, is naive. I respect the fact that some of the girls may not like. But it is a fact of their professional lives. If they have such a problem with it, they must find another vocation. It is par for the FKK course that there will be reports. But if we individual reporters stand together and do not reveal our Internet participation and personas to these girls there should, theoretically, be no problems...

Optimist

07-26-05, 08:13

Just to add to the recent comments. Peter, Ortos, and Novize are dead right

Some of the girls do read the posts - here and in the German forums. And a nice post will cheer them up, a bad report might make them think about the level of their service. As do the managements of clubs. I am convinced that some changes at clubs have been partly influenced by criticism they read on the forums

My rule is never never mention the internet to girls. Sometimes however they ask about the posts written about them and if they are pleased with the idea then, if I know the girl well, I will talk about it a little in broad terms but this is a fine matter of judgement.

The dangers are that some wsg members may talk in detail. Mongers at FKKW some time ago told some girls who I am and what my wsg name is - this means that I can no longer post effectively about individual girls since when I go back they will know exactly what I have said and who I am, This illustrates the point Novize made - that if monger said indiscreet the forum postings will be detrimentally affected. This is why my posts are usually not in detail about girls and why I do not always post after visits any more to FKKWorld

Euro100

07-26-05, 14:11

Hi,

We have an incredibly unfair advantage by using this forum and exchanging informationon individual girls and their performance. Imagine if the girls had a forum where they can rate our performance in the sack!

I have seen an instance where someone actually printed out a report from this forum and brought it into FKKW. This has got to be a dumb move. Of course the girls are going to get upset, in particular if something negative is said about them. Now imagine that they also know who said this! This would effectively prevent us from posting any useful information on this forum. Shiatsu is almost at this point at FKKW, as he just stated. Since he and Cordelia are so easily identified by the girls, he is not anonymous any more. So Shiatsu could have a big problem, if all the girls knew his forum name.

As far as I am concerned, I do not admit to any girl that I know of this or any other forum. If I look for someone, like I did a couple of weeks ago in my search for Ramona, I always say that a friend recommended that I find her. This is much safer in the long run.

cheers
euro

Ortos

07-26-05, 21:47

Shiatsu,

Interesting stuff, eh?

Reading what you say: "Mongers at FKKW some time ago told some girls who I am and what my wsg name is - this means that I can no longer post effectively about individual girls since when I go back they will know exactly what I have said and who I am..."

This got me thinking:

--Did you ever consider changing your name or "handle" here? Would that inprove your ability to function on this forum with more anonimity?

--Do you feel more uninhibited to write brutally detailed and honest reprots if you visit, say, Palace or Oase instead of World?

About writing reports though: There is no right or wrong or "best way" to deal with your FKK particiaption and reporting it on the Internet. Each person will have his/her own take. I only know what works for me: I make no mention, reference or pretense about the Internet to the girls. If they bring it up I feign complete ignorance of these forums. I just don't see how it helps my cause for any girl to know I post on the net...

Ortos

Jaw4You

07-26-05, 21:48

Peter; maybe you can help me since you seem to have great experience, and don't mind offering logical and helpful advice. I get over to Germany a few times a year and have to go to the Koblenz area. Since I am only there a few days each time and have good success with Oase I migrate back each time. In September I am going over for a week and I have seen several posts about the Starlight girls which is close to Oase. Is it worth going to? Is it like Oase; meaning similiar to an FKK?

Any advice you could give to me would be great. Thanks,

Jaw4You

Peter

07-26-05, 23:45

J4U

I am not the one to ask about Starlight ladies '(Novize is), never been and I was never even a Melissa fan when she was at Atlantis, not my type. It is definitely not like an FKK, it is more of an appartment set up from what I hear. If you want to spend a day lounging and fucking, go to an FKK.

The only thing that I can tell you is that more Koblenz License plates can be found at Sauna World in Gorgeshausen, which is about 30 minutes less drive from Koblenz. The club is very nice and cosy, and from what I hear there are currently 10 women working on most days. I used to go to this club quite a bit, because it was a real "feel good" club. It has had ups and downs since, but is worth a shot.

But Starlight is no comparison to a huge FKK like Oase.

€100,

I always wished there were a forum where the women critiqued the performance of men. It would really give insights into what these women think, and what is a good and bad customer.

Euro100

07-27-05, 04:21

€100,

I always wished there were a forum where the women critiqued the performance of men. It would really give insights into what these women think, and what is a good and bad customer.

Oh, I agree with this one. I would really like to know sometime what the girl honestly think of my performance. If the girls could post anonymously and we could learn from our mistakes, that would be great. If I could see what worked and what really did not work, that would be fantastic. After all, they can fake it, and we cannot :( If the condom is empty, all acting is in vain. They know.

But how would you like it if there were physical descriptions and unique identifiers of you on the web that would allow girls to judge what to expect from you. How about a comment like "Avoid this guy, because he is holding back coming until the 29th minute!", or "He is a bad tipper and alwasy want to spend extra time with you after the business is done."? And what if the other girls then would actually avoid you? (Just to avoid bad blood: I am of course not actually speaking of you , but I am speaking hypothetically.)

euro

Ortos

07-27-05, 06:00

[QUOTE=Peter]J4U

I am not the one to ask about Starlight ladies '(Novize is), never been and I was never even a Melissa fan when she was at Atlantis, not my type. It is definitely not like an FKK, it is more of an appartment set up from what I hear. If you want to spend a day lounging and fucking, go to an FKK.

I've been reading rumours that Melanie (not Melissa!!!), the ex-Oase and ex-Atlantis Polish/German girl behind Starlight (the Private Apartment set-up) in a suburb of Bad Homburg --not far from Oase, btw), is finally reaching her goal of opening a new FKK club. If these rumours are correct --and they seem to be solidifying based on new info supplied by Novize (see his post in "Other FKKs" thread-- the new club, called "Malibu" will be opening in about two weeks on 5th August. The location is in Nidderau, north of Frankfurt, not far from where the former Atlantis used to be... There will probably be some ex-FKK girls as well as some new talent. We await reports about this new club during the second week of August.

Ortos

Toscana

07-27-05, 14:07

It's not FKK-Land, but you know there is an interesting site in Scotland where there is a good interchange between girls and customers, where you can in fact get quite a good impression of what girls sometimes think. (And in a few cases you could, I reckon, make a good judgment on whether an escort might be reliable, good fun etc. or not.)

http://www.puntingscotland.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php?sid=5297e71dc80d302add0be8d44873b11a

They don't exactly post performance reports, but there are for example specific warnings about bad clients. Interesting stuff. The FKK population is too transient and the inevitable language barriers make such a site unlikely in German clubs.

Maybe someone else could post if they have found similar sites.

But specific reports on me? Could you make sure I'm not on the list of volunteers for that please? :-)

Novize

07-27-05, 17:47

With the new Malibu-club opening on August 5th you can meet the Starlight-Ladies for half of the apartment-price there. I think it will be the better choice... ;)

I would assist Peter´s suggestion to visit Saunaworld. You can have a first look at the club on

www.sauna-world.info (english version available)

Have fun,

Novize

Jaw4You

07-27-05, 21:06

Thanks to everyones advice and comments. I will make my decision prior to my arrival and whatever I decide (FKK or S.L. or maybe both) I will report my experience back to all those who have helped.

Japan

07-28-05, 03:06

Tawan

07-28-05, 06:28

Japan,

Througout my first 15 or so FKK visits (all Wiago, Oase or World) I assumed bareback was totally non-existent.

Well, that changed. I had the chance to do it at least once at World and was barely able to stop myself. I had penetrated for a few thrusts and she was far from objecting. But I came to my senses (i.e. thought of my wife) and pulled out. Later I gently asked the provider about it and she said "But I don't, only with you this time." Hmm.

Another occasion, different girl, I am almost certain she was amenable to bareback after some rubbing/partial penetration accompanied by an encouraging look.

To be clear: in both cases, bareback was not offered explicitly as an "extra." I believe the practice is (correctly!) strongly discouraged and is NOT on the regular menu. Also in both cases, I had developed a little "relationship" with the girl (or whatever you can develop by being nice to them over a couple visits) and had apparently succeeded in getting her aroused.

I never again met a provider where I sensed this would be an option. So I doubt you will have much luck by asking around. You probably won't make yourself very popular with that request either.

Be careful, it's not worth it. I suspect the desire is at least partly related to self-destructive urges, as opposed to just pleasure seeking, but that's for another forum. In fact I feel a little sick to my stomach just thinking about it again as I write this.

Akibono

07-28-05, 06:35

Can anyone tell me if bareback sex is available in German FKK clubs? Are non-Germans treated differently in that regard? I have heard it rumored that "alles ohne" is available in some clubs. Is this true? Can anyone provide some info about this? (My conversational German is is bit rusty, but passsable!)

You are a fool to engage in unprotected sex. The risk is just not worth it. If a girl is willing to have sex w/o protection, she has done it with hundreds of people. In a FKK that is the equivalent to having sex with hundreds of thousands of people. Thus, the risk is very high of catching something. The usual nasties include herpes (no cure) and hepatis (C is very nasty). The risk of HIV is low but not neglible.

Protect yourself and the health of the girls. Anyone who knows a girl offering unprotected sex should report her to the management. The last thing we need is an epidemic and a reason to close the clubs down. Oral w/o is already a significat risk.

Peter

07-28-05, 08:00

Bareback is retarded!

I was offered it recently at a club and was appalled. The club is frequented by a lot of men over 60, so the girls think that provides some safety, but a lot of these men over 60 also go to thailand, where some horrible strains of Gonnorhea that cannot be treated with normal antibiotics go around rampantly.

The only club that was openly offering and advertising it is Freudenbergstrasse 38 (Next door to 39). But given that there is only one club out there offering it, those girls must be walking cess pools to be up for it. Go, get aids, and die! best of luck to you on that! Stupid fuck!

Optimist

07-28-05, 10:34

Clubs do not encourage this. After all it could ruin its reputation and its business

The club I know best is very strict on getting the girls who go there tested every few months. And on getting them treated for any infections. I guess this is one of the reasons the girls sometimes take unexpected "holidays"

The pressure from men for girls not to use a condom can be considerable. There are some men who refuse to go with any girl who uses a condom. However sometimes they get so many refusals that they leave without sessioning, and after having had rows with the girls. The management supports the girls in such cases. Such men tend to look for the inexperienced girls and occasionally persuade them.

I never ask for this myself so I don't know how hard it is to get, but I have never been offered it. It is simply not worth the risk to myself - if a girl did it with me then she presumably could be doing it with over 1000 men a year, each of whom might have had another 10 unprotected sex sessions in the same year, each of whom might have unprotected sex with other men. if you have unprotected sex with one person you could in effect be having sex with tens of thousands of others - any one of could have HIV. And how would you feel if you infected someone with HIV?

CBGBConnisur

07-28-05, 16:36

Alles ohne is a service that is offered very often by Hungarian women in Austria. You honestly have a better chance of staying healthy playing Russian roulette than with fucking a prostitute without a condom. I have rarely heard about this in FKK clubs, I have had threesomes on several occasions with ladies at FKKs and after I fucked one girl the second girl fucked me with the same condom, she could have thereby gotten some kind of pathogen from other woman's pussy, that could have come from another guy that she fucked. Women in a lot other places won't do bbbjs, I know a few FKK women who won't do it on men they don't know, especially at DV.

For those who don't know there are two strains of HIV, HIV-I and HIV-II. In the US, Canada, and Australia, physicians only test you for HIV-I. I believe this is the same in Germany. So in theory you could have HIV-II and get a negative HIV test from your doctor, you also have to take the test at least 6 months after any exposure for it to be accurate. HIV-II, is a strain found in Africa, there are some African girls working in FKKs, often Moroccan or Tunisian, be really careful doing any bareback with them.

Henio

07-28-05, 16:38

I've been offered without two times, once at World and once at Oase. Did of course object and had quite a long discussion about it the second time with the girl. Both times it was like a way for the girl to show some kind of affection or some shit like that. "I would have sex with you without condom if you like" one said to me at Oase once and said it in a way it was the ultimate complement or something weird like that. I have never been offered it as a menu item with some price attached though.

Don't PM me or ask about which girls. I will not disclose their names.

Had a condom break once and did not notice the break until I came into her (well, she noticed it then, and I was made aware with a series of "Sheisse, sheisse...." from her). Was scared shitless for couple of weeks and don't want to repeat that crap.

Chivaz

Fkk Lover

07-28-05, 17:24

All the talk here is about STDs as it should, but can paternity suits in German family courts force you to take a DNA test like they do here in the US?

Don't be a fool, wrap your tool!

Tyweed

07-28-05, 18:24

Sorry, but I cannot believe someone was asking if he could get sex w/o condom at FKKs! I mean, are you really naive, or you have already infected with AIDS or other disease, so you are trying to infect some others!?

Now, I am scared. I know those girls are supposed to be tested, but is this really true? I heard that no one is enforcing.

Peace,

Y

CBGBConnisur

07-28-05, 19:17

If you value your own life don't have sex with a stranger without a condom.

Euro100

07-28-05, 20:24

Japan, you have been slapped around enough already. I hope you got the message.

But, fellows, there are many guys like Japan out there. A few of the girls I frequent often have all told me the same story: maybe a quarter of the guys request to do it without a condom. Certain nationalities seem to be prone to request this more often than others, according to the girls.

Bareback happened to me once, without me noticing. Sound weird? Let me explain. It was in BHH, and we went throught the standard uncovered foreplay and BBBJ. Then we put the raincoat on and went through many positions. Then she asked me if I wanted to complete in her mouth. Yes! We did true 69, and somehow she got really aroused. I had had a few too many of the special birthday cocktail that the owner served that night, and I was not thinking to clearly any more. Next thing I knew, she was riding me again, and it did not take here very long to come, too. Only when I pulled out I saw that there was no condom on me. Boy, I can tell you the shock of seeing him unprotected in this situation sobers you up in a hurry. I have not gotten drunk in an FKK ever since.

For several weeks after that encounter I was very worried that I might have caught something. Luckily this did not happen. But I do not want to bet my life on being lucky the next time again.

The girl of that night does not work at BHH any more. I don't know what happened to her. I am hoping that she did not catch something from some guy. Because if she did it with me, there sure were others, too.

Stay safe, don't go bareback
euro

Japan

07-31-05, 21:07

Thanks very much for the info--you have collectively pretty much answered most of my questions.

I disagree as to the extent of potential absolute dangers of BBFS, and the risks of serious disease transmission relative to other openly accepted sexual activities. However, I do repect all of your opinions. Nevertheless, for those who may want an interesting an informative "alternative" read concerning this topic, please check out http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/rrbprostitute.htm.

I was curious as to how BBFS is currently perceived by hobbyists in Germany, since I have not traveled there for many years. Thus, I really do appreciate your candidness! In return for all of your forthcoming information, I would like to offer some data concerning my personal experiences in other countries. (This is, after all, the WORLD sex guide!)

Although I have found that the practice is certainly not the norm, I have obtained BBFS recently, with little effort (i.e., within the past year) from prostitutes in Japan, Hong Kong, Macau, Costa Rica, Thailand, the United States, and, on one occasion, even in the Netherlands! I am neither bragging nor apologizing-- just reporting the 'bare" facts. My estimate of BBFS frequency over the past two years, based on my own experience with a sample size of about 150 prostitutes, is that about 15% of girls regularly offer bareback sex. I base this estimate on the assumption that if I got BBFS from a girl with little or no effort, it is, for that girl, a regular menu item. I have found that the frequency appears to vary little among the above countries, with the exception of the Netherlands, where, in my experience, it appears to be quite rare. Also, a recent anonymous poll of several thousand hobbyists on a very popular U.S review site indicated that over 40% of American hobbyists have partaken of bareback intercourse with escorts.

I know that I will inevitably receive more slams and flames for this post--but I am still curious! Irrespective of whether or not you agree with me concerning the health and safety issues, could those of you with some experience in this regard please comment on my frequency estimate? Do you find my (admittedly uncontrolled and subjective) estimate of about 15% to be at all accurrate? Do you think it is an over-estimate or under-estimate? In particular, do you think Germany is a country where it is more frequent or less frequent than elsewhere?

I have both a theoretical as well as a personal interest in this statistic, since, if the frequency of this activity is as high as it seems, then the most frequently cited risk estimates for serious disease transmission must necessarily be incorrect.

Thanks in advance for your input!

Peter

08-01-05, 20:59

Japan,

I would say that your estimate sounds legit, but it varies a lot country to country. As you say the Netherlands is lower, I would say that germany is lower too. My experience in China is that the sauna girls in hotels or Karaokes are really super safe, not even offering BBBJ, but in the low class local brothels and Barbershops it might be easier to get BBFS, all depends on the education level the government has managed to get through.

I have probably had close to 1000 sessions in Germany, adn this was the first time I was offered BBFS, and happy that it has not happened more. There were always rumours about Freudenbergstr. 38 being a BBFS club, but it certainly was never one of the more popular clubs, so there are a lot of guys who don't like it.

Strangely I was talking about exactly this subject the other day with some girls in Wildenrath. Nici said she had a customer at an appartment call up and want BBFS. She said it was the first time in 10 years of working, and I believe her, she doesn't lie to me (I know a lot about her and her past and stuff - and we barely session together because she isn't really my type and she knows it, so she suggest other girls for me to go with). Some of the other girls got into the discussion and they say that about once every 2 weeks there is a customer (not always the same one, just the frequency) who goes around asking each girl if she will do BBFS, and I know no girls currently in the club offer it (I know of 2 girls who have in the past, and when the management found out they were immediately asked to leave the club).

I do know that a lot of mongers like it. I have read on the Thailand sections of soe guys who even try to trick the girls into it, which I find abhorrent.

Normally I would say "It's your life" just like I do when people smoke, but given the power position you are in compared tot he girls in a lot of situations I think it is an abuse of your power as a consumer to try and coerce girls into thinking it is OK. BBFS is not a good idea, not just because of disease, but also because of pregnancy (not all working girls are using contraceptive effectively). Please don't do it, it is not worth it!

Japan

08-01-05, 23:32

Thanks, Peter, I really appreciate your input--it seems that Deutchland is similar to the US in the general attidude towards bareback. And, based on your experience, that suggests to me that the frequency of BBFS is WAY higher than most girls are ever willing to admit! This is indeed consistent with my own experience: there are several girls in the US whose pussies I have filled with hot loads on multiple occasions, who have later publicly or privately denied EVER doing BBFS with a client, and/or even claim that they have thrown them out of their room for even asking! The reality of the situation is, some girls actually enjoy this activity as much as the guys, but very, very few are ever willing to admit it. Most assume that it would destroy their ability to attract clients if word ever got out that they do BBFS--and judging from the public reaction of this, they are correct in that assumption!

I do wish to point out, however, that I have NEVER used coerecion, and always pull out prior to completion if the girl requests. (Of course this is not a fool-proof method of birth control, but in the US at least, all the girls know that! But condoms are not a fool proof method either, certainly!)

No matter what evidence I cite, I know I will never convince most people of what I believe to be a virtually nil risk of serious disease from bareback sex with prostitutes. I am not even going to try! (Been there and done that!) But just think about this: every one of us is currently here on this planet because somebody fucked somebody else bareback (unless, of course you happen to be a test-tube baby!) Therefore, Peter, your point about pregnancy is well taken--the primary function of condoms is to prevent pregnancy. They do that usually--but not always. A secondary function is to prevent disease. They often do that too, for some, but certainly not all diseases. Yes, there is risk associated with bareback sex, as there is with covered sex, as well as BBBJ and DATY. The risk with those activites is lower. How much lower? That is controversial. But the risk is there, nonetheless, if you believe the VERY SAME statistics from the VERY SAME studies that claim a higher risk for BBFS. Many like to compare this to Russian Roulette. OK, fair enough! If I am playing with one bullet in 3000 chambers, then you (if you partake of BBBJ and DATY) are playing with one bullet in 30,000 chambers. So, your chances of contracting a fatal disease are 10% of my chances. In other words, you have to get a BBBJ 10 times as frequently as I get bareback sex, to be close to my level of risk. But if you have seen 1000 prostitutes for BBBJ, and if I've barebacked only about 50 (which is the case), then our risk level is quite similar--in fact, yours are bit higher than mine!

But my point is this: WHATEVER the risks, I do not try to prevent YOU from playing. So PLEASE, do not try to prevent ME!

CBGBConnisur

08-02-05, 02:05

1000 sessions? Wow, I believe I have had just over 200(averaging about 30 different women on each trip) in the past four years at various FKKs. I thought I was a seasoned veteran.

Bruce Ley

08-02-05, 04:28

So assuming that one session has always cost about 50 EUR on average, he's spent about 50,000 EUR on *****s. Man, I love this hobby, but that is a LOT of money. One could buy a convertible or start a new business with that kind of money.

Peter

08-02-05, 07:25

I have been going to FKK's for about 4 years now, probably 50 visits a year on average (In the beginning I was going 65 times a year, now it is more like 35), so that is 200 visits, and then at an average of 3 sessions a visit that would put me at 600 in FKK's. If I add the 100 or so sessions I have had abroad then I probably top out at 700. Sorry for making the number too high.

Tyweed

08-02-05, 07:26

30 sessions/each trip. That is a lot, too. What? You had 6 or more seesions/day 5 days in a row. I was able to do 4 girls/day 3 days in a row, and I was done.

Anyway, I completely agree with Peter-san! I don't understand some people like to try BBFS with prostitutes. Sure, you may get ones in Thai and some oher places (even in some Eastern Euro nation) due to a lack of education, but in all those area, STD rates are high enough to be their national health problem issues. Many chicks just don't care because they know they are infected.

After I read Japan's comment, I did some search in Japanese sites (I would not think you are Japanese, but I know some Japanese hobbiests love BB) and spoke to my Japanese friends (my parents are Japanese). Some dudes were bragging that they got BBFS overseas (without even talking about the risk of getting diseases!!). And, the STD infection rates have been increasing in the world No2 economy due to a lack of education and misunderstanding (some people basically have no knowledge about STDs!), and many young people simply do not use a condom at all.

Also, they usually do things called "Sumata" which is kind like fucking without an intercourse (or insert). You basically rub your dick against a pussy. Many actaully got STD (not AID, but all the others) thru this act.

You know, it is the 21 century, so we all need to be careful. Not for yourself, but for the girls as well as the other hobbiests.

Am I too idealistic?

Peace,

TY

GabrielPontello

08-02-05, 13:55

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that might have bought a Ferrari if not p***y addicted....

Peter

08-02-05, 19:08

Optimist

08-03-05, 07:03

Peter - Maybe I'm also mad but it seems a modest amount for so much benefit. All a car would do is slowly rust. I'm not going to count up my numbers but they explain why I still have to work for a living (or more precisely work for my holidays!) and why I have an old car...

Shiatsu

Japan

08-03-05, 14:08

Peter & Shiatsu,

I'm with you on this one! Without pussy, why even bother with the car? My car has 130,000 miles on it, looks like sheiss warmed over, bucks, coughs, chokes, stalls, and farts carbon monoxide! Why, riding in my bloody car is is far more dangerous than riding any ***** bareback!

Optimist

08-03-05, 15:42

Japan

Thanks for bringing out some interesting points, However I am concerend about relying on an article over 12 years old - the history of HIV has I think been of a move oput of the original high risk groups in to the wider heterosexual non-injecting population. This would appear to invalidate for the current day the conclusions of the article that we do not need to worry about HIV in bareback sex

I looked at the weblink you gave. One paragraph has stunned me - the one about prostitutes who do not use condoms

"Twenty-five to fifty percent of the prostitutes were seropositive for syphilis; the same approximate percent were seropositive for hepatitis B virus (with about 5 percent actively infected); and antibodies against chlamydia, herpes simplex 1, herpes simplex II, and gonorrhea were present in 95 to 100 percent"

If this is true it seems to me to make an overwhelming case against bareback -Hep B is a severe disease and all of the others require treatment. With infection rates for syphylis of up to 50%, and 100% for some other diseases then there seems to be an almost guaranteed outcome of picking up something which needs treatment. Whilst this may be an acceptable risk for me in the very few cases where the condom has come off accidentally it seems unethical if these figures are right to then have unprotected sex with somebody else. The figures you quote seem to argue for a period of testing and treatment between any unprotected sex sessions - otherwise a bareback practitioner is knowingly spreading infection. Of course I may be misunderstanding - is the article saying there are live infections or is it just picking up a history of past infections?

However are you saying you have had unprotected sex onall those occasions and, having been tested, have had no infections? If this is the case then your views would seem to have some weight

I take your point about unproteted oral sex - it is possible to catch just about all those diseases via oral sex as well

The point about HIV not being primarily related to unprotected sex is interesting. I am no expert on other studies but would have thought that the AIDS epidemic in rural Africa related to unprotected sex rather than drug use? Your point does remind me of the debate about Hep B - whcih I believe is supposed to be transmitted by only fluid exchange - yet research had shown that this does not in fact explain about half the cases, therby implying that there must be another causative link

All very complicated. We need a resident expert!! Apologies to all if I have rambled too long, but it seems to be a matter of general interest

Iseeu

08-03-05, 19:07

hm, let's see 50K Euro = approx. $65K or 2 year's college education at a decent US university. As your academic credits prove, I'm sure that you've gotten a much better and well-rounded education for your 50K Euro than you could ever have gotten on a college campus and look at how useful it is too in the real world.
Hmm, wait a thought comes to mind. If we could transalate your 50K euro and all of the money we're pumping into this industry into scholarships for college coeds preferably cheerleaders...Alumni fund raiser of a sort, sort of an endowment - pun intended.
I love the topics on this thread - cars, money, BBJ and FS - now if we could only work food and football into the discussion, it would have everything a man could ever want -it's starting to sound like the Man Show...

Peter

08-03-05, 19:31

Iseeu,

I had a female friend when I was 20 who was a kept woman for a business man who only visited our town once a month for business. She had an appartment and a car at her disposal plus about $300 a month, and was sleeping with him when he was in town. So it was running him about 1500 a month, most of which he could write off as business expenses. It helped her through college.

I always thought it was a nice arrangement, but it has as much monotony as having a real life girlfriend and is more expensive.

There is a site out there called coeds need cash or something like that, which basically offers these types of scholarships. I know that hustler also has a porn series which offers college girls cash to play in their pornos.

If there were a way to hook up donors with needy students for this sort of "scholarship" I would probably sign up for it.

Iseeu

08-03-05, 20:57

Where does the line form? LOL

Polar

08-03-05, 21:02

I intend to do my first visit at the famous FKK in September. I have time to spend from noon on Sunday September 11 until Monday pm in Frankfurt. This is the weekend just before the car fair. What is your suggestion on a Sunday, Palace, Oasis of World? Taste is usually very personal, but I just thougt there might be some difference between the places on a Sunday.

Akibono

08-04-05, 02:13

The point about HIV not being primarily related to unprotected sex is interesting. I am no expert on other studies but would have thought that the AIDS epidemic in rural Africa related to unprotected sex rather than drug use? Your point does remind me of the debate about Hep B - whcih I believe is supposed to be transmitted by only fluid exchange - yet research had shown that this does not in fact explain about half the cases, therby implying that there must be another causative link

All very complicated. We need a resident expert!! Apologies to all if I have rambled too long, but it seems to be a matter of general interest[/QUOTE]

Shiatsu, you are right on point. The risk of AIDS with unprotected sex is high as shown by Africa. The only reason it is not so high in Western countries is because the percent of infected persons is still low. However, all it takes is one case in a FKK and hundreds of people can be infected. I have seen one case in World where I was sure there was unprotected sex. That was enough to shock me.

GabrielPontello

08-04-05, 12:21

That's what I figured I have paid on the hobby over almost 5 years.

You might consider me a little perverted to say that I prefer having spent this money on pussy than on a car. I never would even want a ferarri.

I never regret any coin spent this way...was just figuring out how much was the amount....spent in the last 19 years!!
probably a F1 Ferrari not just a standard one...

Dedalus

08-04-05, 14:56

There is a site out there called coeds need cash or something like that, which basically offers these types of scholarships. I know that hustler also has a porn series which offers college girls cash to play in their pornos.

Peter,

The things you know...

How many high-school guidance counselors and university financial aid offices in the US promotes this option, do you think?

Cheers,

Dedalus

Euro100

08-05-05, 02:56

What the hell, $50,000 seems downright cheap.

I just did a little figuring, and I come up with about 500 sessions that I have done around the world. Most expensive session: $800 for one pop; cheapest: $20 for three pops. I think that the whole thing has cost me close to $50,000, because you have to figure in transportation, entrance to the FKKs or boites or whereever, and fees for hotels and food.

But now take the average failed marriage and do the math. In the first couple of weeks you go at it like rabbits, maybe 10 times a week. Then you slow down a bit. So after 6 month you get married, and perhaps by then you had had sex 60 to 100 times. Then, after the marriage, a big drop. Maybe you have kids, and another drop in freqeuncy. By year 7 you are down to 10 to 15 times per year, and you say f*** this, I'm outta here. Divorce. Divorce lawyers. Shit, no pre-nup. Half of the house goes to her, as does one of the cars, and half of the bank account. (Luckily you hid the little stocking stuffer in the Caymans from everybody, including her...). Oh, so now we are talking about $500,000 in damages. You coulda had 5,000 sessions for that kind of money. And then you add alimony. The gift that keeps on giving...

Now does mongering look like a good deal? Or what?
;-)
euro (not really frustrated, not really forced to drive an old beat-up piece of crap, still living in a nice house, but a lot wiser at great expense)

CBGBConnisur

08-05-05, 04:24

700 sessions averaging about 70EUR a pop is quite a good value, a good brothel where I currently live averages 200EUR plus "extras". My first visit to an FKK, I was trying to not laugh at how cheap it was compared to a lot of other places that offer high quality women. I used to think a lot of these women must have been really desperate for money to be doing this for so little. An FKK quality woman in the US can earn as much as an Anesthesiologist, 250,000 to 300,000 US a year.

Peter

08-05-05, 06:32

CBGB;

High class hookers rarely have more than 2-4 dates a month. Other than possibly in NYC, London, Tokyo, Moscow there really isn't a huge market for girls who charge over $500 for their services. A lot of these girls don't really earn that much either. Porn stars who hook, or strippers who offer full service for an extra $200 are the sort that might actually earn over $100,000, but otherwsie it isn't realistic that girls are earning that sort of coin.

I know some FKK girls who have worked at some super expensive clubs in Germany and Switzerland. In Germany, the luxury clubs are dead, with customers only coming during trade fair times, so they are going home empty many nights.

Zurich is another story. Here there are some top FKK girls (But they have to be tattoo and piercing free, and be German, not eastern European) who are pulling down 400 Swiss Franks an hour, and managing 4 sessions a day. But those places are rare, and there are only a limited number of customers.

If girls want to earn a regular living, then they have to offer their services in a reasonable price category.

I mean there is one "supermodel" who supposedly offers her services for $50,000 a night, but I have yet to hear of anyone who has used those services.

Theoretically I am offering to be on the receiving end of anal from a huge Black guy for $10 million, but with no one offering that to me, it is not a real income.

Toscana

08-05-05, 10:47

Japan’s “car has 130,000 miles on it, looks like sheiss warmed over, bucks, coughs, chokes, stalls, and farts carbon monoxide!”

When on the girls I choose begin to resemble that picture, I’ll know it’s time to stop and save for the ferrari.

CBGBConnisur

08-05-05, 13:39

I actually met an FKK girl at Babylon that worked in Las Vegas, she made a lot of money while there but she eventually got thrown out of the US for overstaying the 90 day limit.

As far as cars, I live near a Ferrari dealership, I saw a fleet of brand new F430s delivered.

Pervus

08-09-05, 06:35

Does anyone know what became of the ladies who worked at the now closed Relax in Limburg? To me it was among the best small clubs I had ever visited. I would like to know what became of Laura from Litho, Or Mandy, or any of them. I'm planning a trip there this fall and would like to catch up with one or two of them. Also the lovely little barmaid Tanya. So cute. I just missed her when she worked the other side of the bar. The club itself was wonderful too. Clean and modern and management always made sure there was something to eat and drink. I surely miss it. Especially Sunday afternoons in the summertime out on the grass. Just terrific.

Fkk Lover

08-10-05, 06:27

Pervus,

Your barmaid and her bf were tending the counters at Goldentime doing a fantastic job as always late last year but were already gone when I went back to pay them a visit in April. Dunno where they went to from there but if anybody else knows, I'd like to know also. They're good people.

I was communicating with Laura via email for awhile and hooked up with her at Oase several times after Relax closed, but have not talked with her in a long time. I got the impression that she was busy doing alot of other things and had just become a part timer anyways, but would make time for long-time "friends." Last I checked, she didn't live near Frankfurt.

FL

CBGBConnisur

08-11-05, 17:55

Berlin is getting a new FKK club called Artemis, it is supposed to become the biggest FKK in Germany, and is particularly going to be suited to handling the large numbers of tourists expected to enter Germany for the World Cup in 2006. I guess we will finally have a reason for traveling outside of NRW and Hessen for pussy in Germany.

Pervus

08-13-05, 08:18

Fkk lover,

Tks for the update. I am just starting to formulate plans for a trip in early or mid October, (as soon as the airfairs switch to the off season rates) LOL I thought it would be fun to look up some of my former playmates over there.

Again, thanks.

Peter

08-13-05, 11:28

Artemis is opening in Mid September according to an ad in the Bild.

Goldentime is owned by the Relax people, but in the meantime few of the girls have made the trek up there.

Regarding Barmais Tanya, she is no longer working at Golden time, she is working 3-4 days a week behind the counter at Wildenrath. Some people really like her, but I don't think she is as friendly as others think.

Khare I

08-14-05, 23:09

I will be in Frankfurt for one week untill Aug 22. Also I do not know German and fear that I may get lost. I would love to accompany anyone who is interested to go with me all the FKK clubs one by one. Please PM me ASAP so we can setup a plan.

For others wait for a giant report!

Happy mongering.

Wanking

08-15-05, 14:27

I mean there is one "supermodel" who supposedly offers her services for $50,000 a night, but I have yet to hear of anyone who has used those services.

Peter, who is she??

Peter

08-15-05, 16:48

Don't know. I once landed on the page where she was advertised, there were pictures where they showed her sillhouette in real pro pictures. I searched the internet but could not find any similar pics or any reports about who she might be. But it is just like all the high price sites out there like EliAgency (do they still exist?). You can look all you want and you can't find anyone who ever uses these services.

I guess no one is stupid enogh to actually admit they overpaid that much.

WorldTraveller

08-16-05, 03:05

Khare,

I would not worry too much about not knowing German. I would however suggest you get a book with a few common phrases in it. I found that on my trip there, people were much more willing to speak to you in English if they could see you were trying to speak to them in German. I will say that 99% of the people that I interacted with in the larger cities spoke some English. I did meet several ladies that did not speak English, but for what we were doing, neither one of us needed to speak the other language.

In one Partytreff club I visited, the bartender did not speak English, but asked around until he found a woman who did. She turned out to be alot of fun and ended up hanging out with me most of the evening, translating for me, introducing me and hooking me up with quite a few ladies but only after she tested me out herself.

Don't be scared, just make an effort and don't be embarrassed to admit you can't speak the language.

Optimist

08-16-05, 20:28

There has been discussion of this under the partytreff thread - but I'm continuing it here as it is a more appropriate thread

To add to the chorus of car lovers for FKKing. I would love to go by train and taxi (and have done in the past) but find that it is a lot cheaper to hire. If I were to go to Oase and World from Frankfurt on the same day by train and bus I could easily spend over 50 euros, to say nothing of the wasted time and loss of flexibility. If I did the bus journeys by taxi then the cost could be over 120 euros. There is no way a car will cost even the lower figure - even if you factor in the risk of having to pay an excess because of damage occasionally.

If in doubt on the autobahn - just stay in the slow lane. And keep an eye on your rearview for someone coming up fast. German drivers may not be the best but they are generally not aggressive and seem to go by certain unwritten rules (i.e custom)- after a short time you see the unwritten rules they are driving by.

As for which company is best - it's worth checking Budget, Sixt, Hertz and Europcar websites and getting quotes. Sometimes one is cheap, another day a different one is cheap

CBGBConnisur

08-18-05, 01:26

Well I take a nearly 30 hour flight from Sydney, its not as bad as it sounds because I fly business class, costs me about 6000EUR round trip usually with either Air France or British Airways. I don't feel like getting behind the wheel of vehicle in a foreign country after such a long trip.

Britpop

08-19-05, 10:23

For those that do not want the extra expense of hiring a car or the trauma (especially for us brits of driving on the other side of the road) of auto bahn hire, there are clubs that can be accessed by public transport. Also there is the clear advantage of being able to have a relaxing beer between sessions, especially when some of the venues offer free food and drink. D&D is very tight here, if the traffic cops even smell a beer on your breath you will be in for a whole load of pain.

I do write this from the perspective of living in Cologne and that the start point is Cologne main station, but the following are easily accessable:-

FKK World - train to Geisen and then cab. I know this will probably spark off a huge thread about the distance, time and expense of the cab.

Samya - Tram number 16, 5 mins walk.

Mettman - train to Dusseldorf HBF and then change to a local line to Mettmann Stadtwald, 10 mins walk or cab.

Alibaba - good red carpet FKK in Wuppertal- train to Wuppertal Vohwinkel, 5 mins walk.

Beverley - train to Wuppertal Vohwinkel, bus to Soligen Burg. There is no return bus service to Wuppertal until at least 7 the following morning so find accomadation for the night or be patient and take a book!

Some places I would not personally recommend but you may still want to try:-

Pascha - RLD in Cologne- Train to Cologne Nippes, 5 mins walk.

Dolce Vita - Train to Dusseldorf main station and then Sbahn to Dusseldorf Reisholz, 5 mins walk.

Tropicana - I really liked this FKK when it was in Dusseldorf city but it has been moved to the city outskirts and I have not visted it since its relocation, hence it is included in the not recommended list. Train to Dusseldorf main station and then sbahn to Dusseldorf Erkrath. 15 mins walk or cab.

You can buy day or weekend travel tickets which will cover travel on all public transport and work out a lot cheaper than just buying one off tickets. There are regular checks on the trains for ticket holders, you stand a 50 percent chance of ticket control and the fine can be heavy so I really would not recommend travelling without paying.

Bahn.de is the German Rail website and has an english version. Alternatively you can PM me but please do not send a long list of venuses as I will not answer. I know this may sound unfriendly but I have simply spent too much time in the past reasearching stuff for people who don`t even bother acknowledging the reply.

Is anybody coming over for the World Cup. I feel this is an ideal oppurtuntiy for some mass mongering. Let me know.

CBGBConnisur

08-19-05, 18:23

Soccer is a girlie sport, I prefer rugby over girlie soccer anyday.

Britpop

08-23-05, 08:35

Soccer is a girlie sport, I prefer rugby over girlie soccer anyday.

Warsteiner

09-04-05, 19:57

Britpop,

Good info. I have never heard of Alibaba but I might have to look for some info on the net before my next visit in October. One that you didn't mention:

Sauna Blue Note - S6 train to Duessledorf Rath-Mitte and then 5 min walk.

The train takes about an hour and you could get there quicker by taking an ICE train to Duesseldorf Hauptbahnhof and then the S-bahn to Rath-Mitte but the direct route is cheaper and easier.

I will be steering clear of Germany between May 2006 - Oct 2006 as there is bound to be a lot of aggro with the footy fans. I was in Koeln at the end of July and there were a couple of groups of brits who were there for a weekend on the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) and they ended up having to be thrown out of the Irish bar I was in as they were completely wasted at 2pm and just being a pain in the arse. Being a brit myself I don't want to get tarnished with the same brush.

Vitoriabitter

09-08-05, 23:38

Hi guys,

I thought it might be useful to start a new thread detainling FKK websites. As most are quite informative and would support the + and - word of mouth news.

What do you think?

VB

Peter

09-09-05, 07:42

Vibra-

google kaleu & FKK and you will get a really good website list.

CBGBConnisur

09-12-05, 01:45

Do you think it would be unrealistic for an FKK girl no matter how beautiful she is to get invited to the Le Bal Des Debutantes in France?

Optimist

09-12-05, 08:50

Vitoriabitter. I agree - if there were a new thread which had a heading like "Practicalities" it could have info about webpages, info about car hire, public transport, and which members were visiting where. It would free up the club threads a bit. How about you suggest to Jackson under Site Administration / Suggest New Topics? You can quote my support

Routard

09-13-05, 22:38

There are more than 150 FKK in Germany; a frequent question on this board is which are the best one. There is no answer, as this is very personal question. Some prefer big clubs with many girls, other prefer smaller and more intimate clubs. Some prefer wild clubs with coach action, other prefer not to be hassled. Some are sensitive about facilities, other believe that only the girls matter. But a favorite club is mainly because there are regular friends or girls to meet, or simply because of the location.

Still, here is a very objective top 5 of German FKK. There are only 5 clubs that can line up more than 30 girls: 3 clubs in the Frankfurt area (Palace, world and Oase) and 2 in the Dusseldorf area (Goldentime, Happy Garden). There are several differences between those two groups apart from the location.

The Frankfurt FKK are more expensive (65€ entrance and 50€ every 30min for BBBJ and FS) than the Dusseldorf FKK (only 50€ entrance and 50€ for 30min FS and BBBJ, every additional 30min is only 25€).

The Dusseldorf FKK entrance fee includes free beers, the Frankfurt FKK have only non-alcoholic drinks (sorry to say, but I personally prefer that there are no alcoholic drinks available for free in FKK to avoid bad behaviour from customers who come only to drink for free).

The Frankfurt FKK are daily open from 10am till 5am (except Palace at 4am), the Dusseldorf FKK are open only from 11am to 1am.

The Frankfurt FKK have that unbeatable unique naked dressing policy for the girls and a towel for the customers, the Dusseldorf FKK have only lingerie dressing policy for the girls and bathrobe for the customers. It makes it much easier to choose a girl, WYSIWYG! And having all those naked sexy girls walking around you is a unique atmosphere; it is like being on paradise with all those naked angels.

The Dusseldorf FKK don’t allow the girls to hassle the customers, except in the Kino area (if there is one). It can become quiet boring waiting between the sessions. In the Frankfurt FKK, the girls come over you, which makes a much more interactive atmosphere between customers and girls. There is much more fun to have with the girls in between the sessions, and it makes it much easier to check if there is the right chemistry with the girl before starting a session.

The Frankfurt FKK are all bigger with more facilities, and have all more girls with more diversity than the Dusseldorf FKK.

No doubt, pricing put apart, the 3 Frankfurt FKK are much better than the Dusseldorf FKK.

Comparing the two Dusseldorf FKK is much more easy now than two years ago. Goldentime beats Happy Garden now everywhere: bigger and more facilities, more girls (around 30-40 girls in Goldentime and about 25-30 girls in Happy Garden), better atmosphere and more interaction between customers and girls as the Kino allows everything including coach action (Happy Garden has no Kino).

Comparing the 3 Frankfurt FKK is a bit more difficult. Oase has the most girls (50-60) with the most ethnical diversity; Palace and World have as much girls (35-40), with Palace having more ethnical diversity. Oase is also the wildest club with lot of coach action in the Kino and in the outdoor facilities, which gives this unique atmosphere of a Greco Roman orgy.

On the other hand, regarding the facilities, World has no doubt the most upscale facilities in that huge Millionaire’s house. Palace is also very cosy with that unique Turkish Arabic Palace atmosphere including an impressive hammam as if you are in a harem of 1001 night fairy tale. But Palace has no outdoor facilities. Oase, apart from excellent outdoor facilities, has much simple facilities, with bad air ventilation.

Palace is the only major FKK that is in the miidle of a major town, at wlaking distance from an IBIS hôtel and a U-bahn station, as wel as at a few minutes taxi from a major international airport. For the other FKK, a rent car is more convenient.

Still, as the most important are the girls and the atmosphere, Oase remains the best club, but can be improved. Due to better facilities, World comes second and Palace third.

This is the result for the top 5 list of German best FKK club:

1-Oase
2-World
3-Palace
4-Goldentime
5-Happy Garden

Looking forward your comments about this top 5.

Bruce Ley

09-14-05, 08:56

That's a GREAT re-cap, thanks Routard. I think this should be made a 'sticky' post if that's possible, so that all readers can refer to this.

I have one question - there's nothing I love more than sitting back and watching a pretty face bob up and down on my dick. And I love to fill her mouth with come as the end result. At the Dusseldorf area clubs, will that cost less than it does in the Frankfurt area clubs? I know that getting a BBBJ with CIM costs 100 EUR in the Frankfurt clubs.

Thanks in advance.

There are more than 150 FKK in Germany; a frequent question on this board is which are the best one. There is no answer, as this is very personal question. Some prefer big clubs with many girls, other prefer smaller and more intimate clubs. Some prefer wild clubs with coach action, other prefer not to be hassled. Some are sensitive about facilities, other believe that only the girls matter. But a favorite club is mainly because there are regular friends or girls to meet, or simply because of the location.

Still, here is a very objective top 5 of German FKK. There are only 5 clubs that can line up more than 30 girls: 3 clubs in the Frankfurt area (Palace, world and Oase) and 2 in the Dusseldorf area (Goldentime, Happy Garden). There are several differences between those two groups apart from the location.

The Frankfurt FKK are more expensive (65€ entrance and 50€ every 30min for BBBJ and FS) than the Dusseldorf FKK (only 50€ entrance and 50€ for 30min FS and BBBJ, every additional 30min is only 25€).

The Dusseldorf FKK entrance fee includes free beers, the Frankfurt FKK have only non-alcoholic drinks (sorry to say, but I personally prefer that there are no alcoholic drinks available for free in FKK to avoid bad behaviour from customers who come only to drink for free).

The Frankfurt FKK are daily open from 10am till 5am (except Palace at 4am), the Dusseldorf FKK are open only from 11am to 1am.

The Frankfurt FKK have that unbeatable unique naked dressing policy for the girls and a towel for the customers, the Dusseldorf FKK have only lingerie dressing policy for the girls and bathrobe for the customers. It makes it much easier to choose a girl, WYSIWYG! And having all those naked sexy girls walking around you is a unique atmosphere; it is like being on paradise with all those naked angels.

The Dusseldorf FKK don’t allow the girls to hassle the customers, except in the Kino area (if there is one). It can become quiet boring waiting between the sessions. In the Frankfurt FKK, the girls come over you, which makes a much more interactive atmosphere between customers and girls. There is much more fun to have with the girls in between the sessions, and it makes it much easier to check if there is the right chemistry with the girl before starting a session.

The Frankfurt FKK are all bigger with more facilities, and have all more girls with more diversity than the Dusseldorf FKK.

No doubt, pricing put apart, the 3 Frankfurt FKK are much better than the Dusseldorf FKK.

Comparing the two Dusseldorf FKK is much more easy now than two years ago. Goldentime beats Happy Garden now everywhere: bigger and more facilities, more girls (around 30-40 girls in Goldentime and about 25-30 girls in Happy Garden), better atmosphere and more interaction between customers and girls as the Kino allows everything including coach action (Happy Garden has no Kino).

Comparing the 3 Frankfurt FKK is a bit more difficult. Oase has the most girls (50-60) with the most ethnical diversity; Palace and World have as much girls (35-40), with Palace having more ethnical diversity. Oase is also the wildest club with lot of coach action in the Kino and in the outdoor facilities, which gives this unique atmosphere of a Greco Roman orgy.

On the other hand, regarding the facilities, World has no doubt the most upscale facilities in that huge Millionaire’s house. Palace is also very cosy with that unique Turkish Arabic Palace atmosphere including an impressive hammam as if you are in a harem of 1001 night fairy tale. But Palace has no outdoor facilities. Oase, apart from excellent outdoor facilities, has much simple facilities, with bad air ventilation.

Still, as the most important are the girls and the atmosphere, Oase remains the best club, but can be improved. Due to better facilities, World comes second and Palace third.

This is the result for the top 5 list of German best FKK club:

1-Oase
2-World
3-Palace
4-Goldentime
5-Happy Garden

Looking forward your comments about this top 5.

Novize

09-14-05, 09:06

for comparison the going rates in the Frankfurt and Düsseldorf area:

1. Frankfurt area:

50,- €/30 min. incl. BBBJ

50,- € uplift for CIM

50,- to 100,- € uplift for anal sex

2. Düsseldorf area:

50,- €for the first 30 min. incl. BBBJ, 25,- € for each additional 30 min.

25,- € uplift for CIM

50,- € uplift for anal sex

So, the pricing in the Düsseldorf area is cheaper especially for sessions longer than 30 min. and sessions including extra services.

Have fun,

Novize

Bruce Ley

09-14-05, 09:07

Hey - thanks for the prompt response, Novize. I'm loving this new forum upgrade - it's fantastic! Fast responses, instead of waiting some hours to see replies.

Routard

09-14-05, 14:19

Bruce Ley,

Making a top 5 was easy, but if anyone dare to make a top 10...

As soon as you bring back the first selection level to 20 girls, there are many more FKK, and I doubt I tried all the FKK having 20 girls or more.

Another problem is that there are allready several cheaper Red Carpet Clubs who have at least 20 girls, like Freudenberg 39, while excellent Clubs like Parksauna Wildenrath would still not take part of the selection with only 15 girls.

CBGBConnisur

09-14-05, 17:08

Anal sex is disgusting, that is something reserved for homosexuals. Do these girls realize how underpaid they are? I remember even in some of the less expensive parts of North America women of similar calibre wouldn't settle for less than $300US for a session, NY or LA, the same session will cost close to a $1000US. Then again the overall cost of living in Germany in an urban area seems mjuch less than a US city, I just looked at a house in Bonn, it reminded me of a Brooklyn townhouse, with nearly 4000 sq feet of space going for a half million dollars US, the same kind of home in Brooklyn would cost $3 million US easy. Getting to FKK clubs isn't as tough as people think, ever notice that couple of them have put advertisements on taxi cabs? I noticed that Samya and Pascha(offshoot of the big Eros center in Koln) advertise on taxis.

Hermescali

09-14-05, 17:20

Anal sex is disgusting, that is something reserved for homosexuals. Do these girls realize how underpaid they are? I remember even in some of the less expensive parts of North America women of similar calibre wouldn't settle for less than $300US for a session, NY or LA, the same session will cost close to a $1000US. Then again the overall cost of living in Germany in an urban area seems mjuch less than a US city, I just looked at a house in Bonn, with nearly 4000 sq feet of space going for a half million dollars US, the same kind of home in Brooklyn would cost $3 million US easy. Getting to FKK clubs isn't as tough as people think, ever notice that couple of them have put advertisements on taxi cabs? I noticed that Samya and Pascha(offshoot of the big Eros center in Koln) advertise on taxis.So why do quite some girks lreally like anal sex?

I agree that live in Germany is cheaper than in the US. But Bonn really is a small town (comprised of three fairly independent towns) which does not have much going for it after it ceased to be the German seat of government

Iseeu

09-14-05, 23:41

Routard,
Thanks for starting this - it's been awhile since we went through this exercise. I'll use your criteria this time although setting a minimum of 20 sp removes clubs like PSW and Bernd's from the running.

Here are my selections for 2005:
Starting with #5- A newcomer to this list- replacing PHG which desperately needs a total upgrade- is FKK Colosseum in Augsburg. As I've written elsewhere on this board, Bavaria is no longer a monger's wasteland. Colosseum delivers with 25- 40 beautiful women, nice facility, cleanliness, etc. Problems: you really must have a car to get there, very homogenous selection (almost no ethnic providers), small outdoor area and a lack of intimate seating areas.

At #4 - Also a new selection since last time is GoldenTime- Bruggen. Great vibes to this club and in a short time it has become the best FKK in NRW. Great facility, nice variety and selection of sp, friendly people and a hot kino rivaling the one in Oase. Problems? The food seems to have its ups and downs, almost everyone has a "first time going to GT I got lost story" since they aren't in Bruggen, and their website is the least user-friendly of all.

At #3 - FKK Palace- has really picked up the slack after Atlantis' sad demise, bringing another high class club to the FRA area, and this time only 10 minutes from the city center. The indoor facility is very tastefully done, someone spent a nice bundle re-doing this club, with interesting seating areas, swings, long ottomans to stretch out on , a nice bar in the round, dance platform, indoor jacuzzi, amazing steam room, massage and hamman area. The best masseuse of any club. Good diverse selection of sp with some superstars making their home here. Convenient travel options to airport, city center. Problems: Could use larger food buffet area, more and better pole dances with available sp's, the proximity to FRA and the Messe means that you cannot even begin to aproach this club when the Messe is open for business, no outdoor area.

#2 FKK World - Still the best facility bar none, great outdoor area like a private country club, best food service, and even complimentary shuttle bus service from the Messe. Some great sp make this their home and so does Cordelia (I know that she's reading this(;-)). Good sauna but not up to Oase standards. Some great rooms, especially the VIP's. Nice relaxing downstairs lounge. Nice big indoor pool. Has a lot going for it, and the investment was huge, so it's hard to understand why they can't get and keep a steady balanced supply of sp from more than 2 countries. Problems: Well there you have it - if they would have a more balanced and steady sp population they would probably be at #1. Also some of the rooms have very flimsy doors/ walls - if you can call them that

And coming in at #1, FKK Oase. I have to admit, this has almost always been my #1, although it had it's bad times particularly right after World and then Palace opened. Nice outdoor area, including outdoor jacuzzi, the best saunas, good food service. Convenient, less than half hour drive from airport and/city. Great decadent vibes, good pole dancing. Hot, hot , hot kino. The best, most consistently good, large and diverse selection of women. Problems; there are many, but I guess when you're in love, you don't notice them all, or let them slide. It gets really hot in some of those rooms, the downstairs shower and locker area always have a peculiar odor, and i think that their timed showers give you the shortest burst of water (I haven't actually timed this)

can't wait to read some other ratings.
Njoy

Bruce Ley

09-15-05, 03:28

1. Frankfurt area:

50,- €/30 min. incl. BBBJ

50,- € uplift for CIM

50,- to 100,- € uplift for anal sex

2. Düsseldorf area:

50,- €for the first 30 min. incl. BBBJ, 25,- € for each additional 30 min.

25,- € uplift for CIM

50,- € uplift for anal sex

Novize,

I've never tried to pop twice in the same session before but will some (if not all) girls tolerate this? Let's say I 'signed up' for a 30 min romp, but came in about 10 minutes. Do girls allow for a second pop or is each 'session' basically defined as one climax/pop, regardless of the total duration of the 'sex-contract'?

Kent747

09-15-05, 07:16

I am thinking about visiting FKKs during Germany unity day weekend. Will FKKs be slow or busy during this time? Will many girls take time off for this time? Answers would be appreciated.

Peter

09-15-05, 07:31

CBGB,

Buying a house in Bonn is like buying a house in Iowa. Check out house prices there some time. Remember in America you can write your mortgage interest off on your taxes, in germany you can't (Unless you rent the house out).

BL,

There is no hard and fast rule (club policy) for this that I am aware of. I have had multipop sessions, but rarely and they have always been an hour or longer.

I think you will not find many women up for a second pop within the half hour session, although most wills tay in the room for some after sex talk and cuddling for the rest of the time after a pop.

I am not saying you are like this, but there seem to be a lot of mongers out there who are trying to look for loopholes and find ways to make trhe women work harder and harder for their money. That is a bad development, as it will invariably lead to the women taking on the same attitude, and then we will get the Eros Center RLD attitude in FKK's. Try and provide the girl a BFE, and you should get a hell of a lot more GFE's. I know you (Bruce) are not one of these guys trying to use the girls, I just want to mention it to any of those sport fuckers out there.

Iseeu,

When was your last time in PHG? They have put a tonne of money into a redo. They did that waiting room Buddha Zen thing, then they have replaced the beds and redone the decor in every room. There isn't that much more they can do at the moment.

I object to the praise of GT, which I really don'T enjoy that much. In the german boards, it has been getting reviews as poor as Worlds in the last two months. They are retaining more of the fat girls, and losing the good girls. There also are a tonne of guys, and often there are no rooms to be had.

I don't like the Kino there, as they have actually installed beds. It seems really filthy, and with the dark lights I cannot tell what sort of stains they are expecting me to sit down on. I have enjoyxed myself in the excellent Kino at Oase, but don't like the one at GT. I also don'T like the crowd at GT all that much. I know from a bunch of the girls that the excessive coke use of the customers is quite tolerated at GT. There might be another FKK being built 5km from GT, which will reshuffle the deck again, but never tot he real benefit of the customers. It will be interesting to see what Artemis in Berlin will be like. Shame my GF lives in Berlin.

I went to Colloseum, and couldn't really get into the vibe of the place. Way too much like a fuck factory for my taste. I know the girls who have been travelling down, and a lot of them keep a very close eye on their money making potential, so I avoid them.

If I had to do a current top 5

5. Colloseum - Didn't love the place, but girls were relatively attractive (a little too fake looking like the old atlantis days)
4. PHG - Still can be an impressive lineup on a good day
3. Schieferhof - as long as they don't ever offer sex without again
2. Wildenrath - but with home field advantage
1. Oase by a long shot

I have to admit I haven't been to World in so long that I could not include it in the list. From facilities it deserves to be in a top 5, but from the lineups that I remember and based on what I currently hear I don't see a need for a visit anytime soon.

I have been to Palace though, which was one of my worst FKK visits in eons. The facilities are nice, but the girls were among the worst I have seen in a club since I called GT a "Hausfrauen Puff". Keep those lights down low, it is a necessity.

Potl

09-15-05, 07:34

Novize,

I've never tried to pop twice in the same session before but will some (if not all) girls tolerate this? Let's say I 'signed up' for a 30 min romp, but came in about 10 minutes. Do girls allow for a second pop or is each 'session' basically defined as one climax/pop, regardless of the total duration of the 'sex-contract'?
Bruce,

I know your Q is for Novize, I hope Novize doesn't mind. I think I know the rules ( I might be wrong).

I think one pop is for one session (30 min), another word, if you pop twice in one session, you will need to pay 100E. I remember, I saw girls bring her customer to front desk few months ago in Oase. She were try to explain to customer regarding this matter, 2 pop / session. Of course, there is always exceptions, if the girl like you, maybe you could get away 2,3 or 4 pop / session (30min), and just pay 50E.

I would suggest, always good idea, asking girl before the session. I hate thouse after sessions arguments just because customer & girl are not on same page.

JMPO

Optimist

09-15-05, 08:22

A borderline issue

This does all depend on the girl. I have never had any trouble in Oase, World or Atlantis in coming twice for the same price in half- hour. Having said this I have rarely done this (I am more likely not to come at all!) - usually only when the girl has started the second round. That's what I call a good provider

I would never repeat with a girl who had a RLD attitude and wanted to charge extra for the second coming. This is all part of a spread of redlight attitudes. having said this I think it is pushing it a bit if yuo intend always to try to get a second round within 30 mijnutes - it verges on exploiting the girl (unless you are paying for some other upgrades)

If a girl is happy to restart on a second run within half hour then unless she has warned you of extra cost then she should not charge double.

I'l be interested to hear other views

Fats

09-15-05, 09:05

Dedalus

09-15-05, 10:57

I have been to Palace though, which was one of my worst FKK visits in eons. The facilities are nice, but the girls were among the worst I have seen in a club since I called GT a "Hausfrauen Puff". Keep those lights down low, it is a necessity.

Hey Peter,

Let me know the next time you make a Frankfurt run. I think that the post-summer line up at Palace will impress you. I noticed a few dainty dames on my last visit that might suit your tastes;-)
I have a good feel about the upcoming Fall/Winter Palace season.

Cheers,

Dedalus

P.S. What was that German expression you gave up with for leaving a club without having a session?

Potl

09-15-05, 11:13

I arrived at Oase once to find a customer and one of the girls at the front desk arguing about just this point. He came twice in 30 minutes. His opinion was that 30 minutes was 50 Euros. Her opinion was that twice was 100 Euros regardless of the time involved. The woman behind the desk sided with the girl.Fats,

Perhaps we saw the same girl. I remember that I don't like that girl (forgot her name, she used to work Altentis) even before I saw her in front desk argue w/ customers. I saw her true face when she arguing w/ customer. I am not saying who is right or wrong, but her attitude was terrible. She is kind the provider think she is good, however, stay away from her.

Personal, I don't do 2 pop / session even if I can, I don't think that was very GFE, and to me, GFE is everything. As matter of fact, some time I just have 2 or 3 pops in 3 or 4 hours sessions. For instance, Lizzy (Oase), Maria (Oase), Bobbi (French girl, Palace) and Ramona (World/Palace), we all spend long hours together. I remember, all of them didn't even care how much I have to pay them, of course, I know exactly how much time we spend in zimer (swiss watch). For those girl only, I always asking them how much I should pay when the sessions is over, believe or not, they all say, whatever. Of course, I don't give them short changes.

Please do not start treat "argue" w/ me, saying you could multi-pop and GFE at the same time, of course you could. All the stuffs I said above, just my personal case.

JMPO

Novize

09-15-05, 12:59

have to be seen as two sessions - that´s the going rule in every FKK-club.

If a woman allows two shots in 30 min. without charging the second one, this maybe due to the competition she has to face or the "sympathy" to a special (regular?) customer - or she just doesn´t know how to fill the time.

In Rhein-Main, this means: 2 shots in 30 min. is 100,- €.

In the Düsseldorf area it´s also 100,- €. If you come twice in 1 hour, it´s not 75,- €, but 100,- €.

But here as in Rhein-Main you will find women who give you that special without charging an additional fee.

It´s better to ask upfront, at least before the second round.

Have fun,

Novize

Toscana

09-15-05, 13:23

"Let's say I 'signed up' for a 30 min romp, but came in about 10 minutes. Do girls allow for a second pop or is each 'session' basically defined as one climax/pop, regardless of the total duration of the 'sex-contract'?"

Now, I am really impressed. On the World forum you were asking if it were sensible to envisage a 13 hour stint. That makes 26 half-hour sessions, each with two pops. Makes 52 drainers (physically and financially = at least EUR 2.600) in one day......... This will go down in the FKK annals, I must come and watch.

Optimist

09-15-05, 13:56

Novize - I stand corrected. I am sure you have got the rules right. Sorry if I misled anyone. You are right - best to check before the second round if it is with a girl one doesn't know.

However I would never go again with a girl who charged me for the second time in half-hour. But then I never initiate the second round - I leave it to the girl since I expect the girls to have some rapport with me and see it as a case of swings and roundabouts: if a girl is good on the first session then I will book again for longer sessions.

I think it all depends on the level of rapport or "sympathy" (to anglicise the German word) - that's what I look for but I know most members are after something a bit different to me

Kuber

09-15-05, 15:24

Dear experienced mongers,

Pardon me for such a stupid question.

What is the probability of someone catching HIV/STD in a FKK setting:

(1) with BBBJ (DATY)

(2) with CBJ (no DATY, DFS)

Would appreciate responses based on experience.

Bruce Ley

09-15-05, 17:20

CBGBConnisur

09-15-05, 18:40

Personally I would never put a Frankfurt area club in a top five list, my personal experience has been that smaller clubs are the best, the girls tend to be a lot more open in the smaller establishments than the Walmart sized places like World and Oase. World and Palace have luxurious facilities, which add to the operating expenses of the place but small places like FKK-Burg or Blue Note offer very personalized service. I would consider Bernd's to be in the small and intimate category. Frankfurt is a business hub and good deal of customers at the clubs tend to be foreign visitors, therefore service takes a hit because the girls are unlikely to see these customers in the future. In the NRW the vast majority of visitors are locals, I recall at Babylon I was the first American to visit the club in quite a while and most of the women never met one before, in Frankfurt this is rare.

There is no hard and fast rule as to whether the girl will say the session is over after you bust your nuts, some girls will hang out with you and others won't. As far as quality of service the best service will come almost always from the CIS women.

I noticed that women if they are enjoying you as much as you are enjoying them, they will squirt some kind of discharge, vaginal cum so to speak, I got a few girls to do this. Kind of disgusting but physical proof they really enjoyed it and weren't pretending.

As far as prices are concerned FKKs are the best value in Western Europe, th only other place I found FKK quality and prices were in the Riviera club outside of Barcelona. While on the way to Europe, I read that the owner of the Chicken Ranch makes between $3 to $5 million a year after his expenses, it was in a major British magazine, there was photo of some of the girls, these women were disgusting but typical of American pros. I remember how the ********** people always compared the FKKs to Nevada brothels and what a ripoff the latter were in comparison to the former.

Peter

09-15-05, 21:28

Kuber,

RTFF! Please no one else answer this stupid question. I pm'd him.

Dedalus,

The phrase (I think I coined it on Roemerforum) was "Club Ungepoppt verlassen".

All,

To reinfiorce what Shiatsu and Novize have said: Don't try and find loopholes for the girls, or try to squeeze too much out of your session, and then the girls will not try to squeeze too much out of you. It is important that we, on our side, don't try and cheat the girls. Guys who do should be shunned even more than girls who try to cheat the men.

This will lead to a degredation of standards down to RLD standards over time, so don't do it!

CBGBConnisur

09-15-05, 22:35

Prices in Bonn might be like Iowa but the people there dress and behave more like people from Manhattan, San Francisco, or Boston, very urban. In appearance the Ruhr reminded me of the Northeast USA. Is there any good mongering in Iowa, frankly I don't have much of an excuse to return to the US, I have virtually no family and am out of touch with friends in the States.

Routard

09-15-05, 22:53

There are several new FKK desearving their own thread, like Goldentime, Samya, or Coloseum. Still, some old thread remain for what used to be famous clubs like Mondial, Babylon, Wiago, F35, Fantasyland, DV, Tropicana or Cocoon. What happened to all those clubs, are they still in business, have there been a drop in quality or quantity as there are hardly no reports anymore? Has anyone info how many girls to expect and if it is worth to visit them?

CBGBConnisur

09-15-05, 22:56

Babylon and Dolce Vita have suffered a sharp drop in quality, its a damn shame to see a good club fall apart in only a couple of years, but that is the temporary nature of the business.

Peter

09-16-05, 07:19

Mondial - Was never really top tier. Used to belong to the Tropicana, Cocoon owner, but has changed hands a couple of times and had a fire and such. Never been there, but haven't heard any reports about it in any forum.

Babylon - Went there last wednesday. There were only 5 girls, although 2 were decent looking. The service from both was sub par, one would not kiss, and the other wouldn't allow me to eat her out or do her doggy because of some operation she had. Supposedly they are stocking up on more women in the next few weeks, but at the moment for their pricing I would advise people to go to Schieferhof

Wiago - Hasn't been good for at least 4 years. The place is dirty and old and needs to be renovated immediately. Same owner as Babylon and Colloseum in Augsburg. He has put all his money, expertise and effort into colloseum, which is working well. Maybe he should realize that that is the proper pricing strategy and fix these two clubs before they are completely worthless

F35 - Again they have changed management a lot, and the reports have been up and down. It was never a top club, just a blip on the radar for a while. Expect to find 5 girls there.

Fantasyland - From what I understand it is now under the management of World and called Sauna World. Some of the old fans say it is almost back to the level it was at in its heyday. Back then (about 3 years ago) it was the best run club in Germny. Martin, who turned it into an FKK, set it up perfectly. He had big and soft towels, an excellent buffet, excellent Hygienic conditions and a lot of other little things that made the difference. They had a great lineup of girls, and it was the perfect "feel good club", especially after the fire and renovation.

Once they lost the buffet to some health regulations the downfall started. Slowly Martin put less effort intot he club, and just wanted to get his money out. The club fell and fell. For the last year the management has been good, and the club has been keeping its long time guests coming back. Expect to find 8-12 girls and a casual atmosphere. It is sort of like the Limburg/Montabaur version of Wildenrath.

DV - This place still is popular, but if you are blonde, I guarantee you will be the only guest with that colour hair. The club has become almost exclusively ethnic, particularly turkish and Balkan. They have recently opened up a "Night Cafe" more centrally downtown, and that has drained some of the talent. They also have not put much money into maintenance of the club which shows in some of the hygiene aspects, especially the inadequate showers. They also have a screwed up pricing strategy, which is very confusing for the girls (the side for the men is clear enough). This leads a lot of good girls to seek other clubs where they can better figure out how much they are keeping from every room. Supposedly the owner is opening a big FKK about 5km down the street from Goldentime, which will be bigger than everything around (PHG, GT, Wildenrath, Yin Yang etc.). Not sure how many girls will go ther unless they become more transparent on the pricing and how much the women keep.

Tropicana - This was not management's fault, but the city of Düsseldorf. They forced them to leave the Corneliusstr location. That was right downtown, and was an excellent small club with plenty of customers. Now they are in an industrial area just outside of town in Erkrath. They have renamed it Atrium in the meantime. They put some good money into rebuilding the place, and it is about 1000% nicer than the old Tropicana was. The showers are good, the rooms are good, the ambiance is nice, and they even have a nice outdoor terrace. The problem is location and when customers stopped coming in the big numbers the girls stopped coming. In the meantime they have none of the beauties they used to have. There was a while where the lineup made it the best club I knew of, but not anymore.

They opened a new downtown location at Gustav Poensgensstr. where they have a hotel which is sort of a night club. the pricing is the same as Atrium, which is good (59/99/129), but I object to the fact that the contact room is clothed. The chances that you run into someone who is not in an incriminating situation when you are coming back from a room is just too big for me. This club is not running well either, expect to see 4 girls a night.

Cocoon - Same owner as Tropicana/Atrium, Ali Baba, and the Gustav Poensgensstr. thing. But from what I hear he has fled the country for a while. Not sure why. But this club is actually running at the top of its game still. There are 15-25 girls of top cvalibre there on any given day. The lack of reports is probably due to the fact that not many people go to Wuppertal. But the club is doing fine.

I hope this answers all your questions.

Routard

09-16-05, 11:58

Thanks Peter,

I'm very impressed!

I have again updated my FKK must see list. Roughly, the FKK top ten list (well a bit more) should be somehing like this (this is not based on personal experience, I have not visited all these clubs, I'm simply trying to summarize the multiple info and opinions):

1-Oase
2-World
3-Palace
4-Goldentime
5-Happy Garden
6-Colosseum
7-Parksauna
8-Bern's
9-Sauna World
10-Samya
11-Flaming Island
12-Cocoon

Iseeu

09-16-05, 12:16

Peter,

I stand corrected- I stopped going to PHG in the last half year and was not aware that they have changed many of the problems that I found in earlier visits. It's worth a re-visit in the coming months.

ON preferences - one man's heaven is another man's hell...And we all know you well- documented pref for PSW. But, I was really happy to see OASE on the top of your list.

I am constantly in awe of your wealth of info and you ability to communicate it clearly and fairly objectively. Thanks again.

Routard

09-16-05, 14:00

After previous attempts in Holland (Baddabing and Ying Yang) for creating an FKK outside the German borders, Belgium wants to make also a try.

Check my report on the Belgian Other Area thread.

CBGBConnisur

09-16-05, 15:46

FKK clubs don't age well, few of them in Germany seem to survive more than a few years. From a business standpoint I have noticed that the Amsterdam area is far better simply because of the traffic in the city, loads of tourists in the summer mostly from the UK, as well as some from the US and Canada, frankly I have been in Amsterdam since mid August and Brits and Canadians are outnumbering Yankees like me heavily. I am guessing that Amsterdam is a premier sex tourist locale and the majority of visitors are new to the game, so they spend their money and are easy to impress.

Wry Cooter

09-16-05, 17:38

I believe I read a report some time last year that listed a few of the clubs (incuding Bernd's) where CIM was standard and not considered an extra. Could anyone enlighten me on this topic? I've tried searching at it's been like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Thanks

Peter

09-16-05, 18:41

Schieferhof does age well. It might be the exception, but it is as full today as it was 20 years ago.

the facilities are not new or spectacular, or even particularly clean. what they have is a huge focus on service. It keeps the men coming and the women who work there aren't complaining about their earnings either.

But they never tried to grow beyond the modest expectations they had. It is one house in the middle of nowhere, with 12-15 girls, they let in max. 30 guests, and they are only open Monday to Friday. I would say 95% of their customers are regulars who have been coming for years too.

But it is tough for a club to stay on top for a long time. The ones I know who have done well for more than 5 years are Oase, PHG and Hof, that is it.

Jack195

09-16-05, 19:17

How difficult is it for someone who doesn't speak German, aside from a couple of words to deal with the girls? I realize speaking in a native tongue would get more results, but I've never been all that good with second languages.

CBGBConnisur

09-16-05, 20:33

I wouldn't rate anyone at Bernd's higher than a 7 in looks. I saw total gems at a tiny FKK called Burg in the Duisdorf section of Bonn. There was Nancy who looks like Paris Hilton, and a Heather Locklear lookalike I think her name was Anna, both were total gems. The club offered excellent service. Bernd's is a very old club that has existed since the 1970's, but few clubs last that long. Its bigger sister club St. Augustine closed down three years ago and never resurfaced.

Optimist

09-17-05, 07:53

It's no real disadavantage at the larger clubs - some girls speak better English than German. At the smaller clubs it is a disadvantage. It can also be a disadvantage if you want to develop a friendship or just join in general banter. But in most cases I guess this is not what you are after. Don't let lack of German put you off at all - it won't affect your ability to get girls to go with you - all that counts are 50E notes, politeness, and cleanliness (which in my upbringing was said to be next to Godliness!)

Daniariete

09-17-05, 22:26

Hi,

Is it possible to do sex with 2 girls who make also lesbo action in some clubs?

If you know , can you tell me witch one and the price?

Thanks

Iseeu

09-17-05, 23:50

A lack of german skills can actually be an advantage if you make the most of it and turn it into a game like "Name this body part" or "How many different ways can you say f*ck, etc." or "What am I doing now?" and then tickle, lick, kiss, etc.
Probably won't lead to the discovery of a cure for cancer, but helps to break the ice. BTW, I've used some of the same party games amongst English speakers ex- (In what language and what is a "muschy"?)

Njoy:)

Peter

09-18-05, 04:15

Dani,

3 somes are simply double the price of th esession with one girl. So in most clubs 100€ for half an hour.

Lesbo shows prices vary from club to club. Some do it for an additional 25€ per girl for a light lesbo show and 50€ extra per woman for a serious lesbo show, with real pussy eating, adn not some fake looking stroking.

It is possioble, and if it is a big time fantasy go for it, otherwise I consider it a waste of time and money in most instances.

Ortos

09-18-05, 08:36

Personally, I think there is a definite advantage in speaking German in the FKKs. There is the obvious point: That it is simply more easy to communicate with many of the girls using the club's language of choice. But there is, perhaps a less obvious set of advantages:

In considering the question of whether or not speaking German in the FKK clubs is an advantage, one should think about whether the average FKK girl reacts and behaves differently towards guests she perceives as German vs Foreign/Tourist.

Personally, I think that many/most girls DO in fact treat a guest differently if she thinks he is a local German vs a foreign business man or tourist. The German guest will be a potential repeat visitor and source of much greater income. The German guest will be more FKK street-wise, so she will be less likely to try session tricks like charging for the couch action, rounding up the clock, and more likely to give more of herself during the session. If she perceives you as a foreigner or tourist or US/Brit soldier or whatever, she might type cast you and will quite possibly treat you differently from a German guest. This could well translate into a given girl giving DFK to German guests (or guests who speak German), but not to non-Germans. This type of thing...

After all, in her view, a German guest is quite likely complain to the management or at least spread the word amongst the larger club guest population that a given girl gives bad to sub-par performance.

Now since many of these Girls do not speak perfect German themselves, it is often possible to pass yourself off as a German or pretend you are, if your own German skills/accent, whilst not perfect, at least exceed the level of the girl's German. I often let the girls think I am German, even though a native-German speaker would immediatly know I am not....Maybe I am wrong, but I believe speaking German is an immense advantage in the FKK clubs. Granted this is not universally the case, but it is a significant trend, in my view.

Ortos

Peter

09-18-05, 10:19

speaking russian with a non russian accent is definitely the biggest advantage.

I don't but wish I did.

If you speak it fluently a lot of girls will not trust you and think you might know someone who they know, but if you speak it in a way that they know you are not from a CIS state they will be able to communicate well with you.

Russian is the FKK latin for all the Poles/Romanians/Russians/Hungarians etc. They all speak a bit of Russian from school and use that to communicate.

Judging by the girls I like if I spoke russian and Polish I would be in heaven.

Henio

09-18-05, 17:13

As to the repeat/non repeat customer, I always make sure that the girl knows I am a pretty regular guest although my German is limited.

You will usually get a very nice attitude from pretty much all nationalites if you pick up a few phrases in their native language that compliments the girls. Have the girls teach you the phrases, it can be quite fun

Chivaz

Gatsby67

09-18-05, 19:31

The new FKK Artemis will be opening on September 26th in Berlin. The website is http://fkk-artemis.de

You can click on the British/American flag to get the info in English. It's a high-tech website with virtual tours.
Apparently their will be 70 girls working there and the focus seems to be on wellness/fitness. I understand no alcohol will be allowed to be consumed on premises.

I'll be in Berlin in November so I'll get a chance to report on it by then at the latest. Hopefully someone else can post a report before then.

Berlin is getting a new FKK club called Artemis, it is supposed to become the biggest FKK in Germany, and is particularly going to be suited to handling the large numbers of tourists expected to enter Germany for the World Cup in 2006. I guess we will finally have a reason for traveling outside of NRW and Hessen for pussy in Germany.

Peter

09-18-05, 19:32

If you want a private language tutor, go to Berlitz!

These are places for fucking. If you have some other perverted wishes, keep them to yourselves!

Peter

09-18-05, 19:52

I'll believe it when I read it. Most clubs have disappointed on opening. The only club that had anywhere near the number of girls they had promised on Opening night, was Oase2, which shut down forever 15 minutes after opening.

From what I am hearing Artemis is from the same people as Palace. They made a really nice club there, but it used to be a mediocre club for years until they switched it to FKK. They do a lot for the ambience, but have not proven that they can build and maintain a top class lineup and keep it through all seasons.

Berlin sounds easy, because there are no clubs of that sort in the city. But there are plenty of opportunities for paid sex there. The escort scene is huge, the street walker scene is bigger than anywhere else in Germany. There are tonnes of smallbars and night clubs with 2-7 girls. There is also one decent small size FKK in the form of La Folie. So there is no sex vacuum in that city. Along with this very large and diversified sex industry, there are people who are involved.

The town is very clearly in Russian (primarily) and Turkish (secondarily) hands. I hope the people runnign the club would have cleared there plans with the people who have something to say in this respect.

If they didn't then they won't get 70 girls together, just as World didn't get more than 30 girls on opening day (and the quality of some of them was appalling (I was there)). If they don't clear their plans with these groups, and if the groups see their livelihood wit the current set ups under serious threat, there are a number of things they can do to make sure the club doesn't make it through the first month. In the capital city of Germany, with all the politicians and diplomats, in the center of town, all it would take is one gun shot by whoever, and the place will be shut down quicker than you can put your clothes back on.

I wish the club well, but I hope they did all their homework, and don't expect 70 girls on opening night.

Dedalus

09-18-05, 21:09

If you want a private language tutor, go to Berlitz!

These are places for fucking. If you have some other perverted wishes, keep them to yourselves!

Ah, Peter. Lets not forget those business cards from PHG that advertise the place as an "Institut für Weiterbildung" with among the many Katagorien offered in the "Kursangebot", three being "Fremdsprachen", "Rhetorik" and "Kommunikation". ;-)

Had more of my Profs in college looked like some of those PHG instructors, then I would have gone to class more often.

Cheerio,

Dedalus

Routard

09-19-05, 14:44

FKK is addictive, this has been discussed before on this board, I didn’t imagine how much before entering the very first time that door in Wildenrath. There should be some kind of disclaimer message at the entrance of each FKK warning about it!

But FKK has much more side effects, and I’m curious if we share the same one.

FKK made me feel much more relaxed in life. This fabulous concept, probably the only one that answers to all human basic needs at the same time (lodging, food, clothing, social contacts and sex), is like a taste of paradise. Yes, if paradise exists, it must be something very close to what we experience in FKK. Paradise, happiness, it can be reached with only the basic needs, nothing more. Life is easy in fact, what are we running for? As long as I have the health and financial capabilities to go to FKK, I can deal with life (as I can answer to all my basic needs) and face the other problems that could occur (getting older, divorce, becoming lonely…).

FKK made me feel much more confident in life. Is there anything that can flatter more a man’s ego than having sex with more than ten different beautiful young girls in one week-end? I can have more sexy girls in one FKK tour than most men in a life time. I’m not afraid anymore of the usual middle aged men’s fears (having to face erection problems, getting older and loosing seduction, or having to stay with the same sex partner till death).

FKK made my life much more exciting. I met the most interesting persons from the most different countries, speaking different languages, it’s like travelling around the world in one night. I can fall in love several times a night in FKK. I can make all my sexual fantasies come true. It’s like being able to live several lifes in one. No one in normal life can even imagine what my life really is. The problem is that these wonderful experiences are not easy to share at home or at work. This forum answers the strong need to share all this.

FKK improved my personal sex life. Apart from some new techniques, I improved my erection control as well as my orgasm. And my partner in life became much more desirable, as I am not afraid anymore of the usual middle aged men’s fear. How sexy she can be when coming out from the shower, still wet with a white towel. It’s FKK at home!

FKK improved my family life. Yes, I don’t need to put my family in danger having an affair with another woman. I even don’t look anymore at other women. When some dude says to me: Look at that sexy hot girl!”, I’m just thinking: “Poor guy, this girl that makes you crazy is for me in the category of -a no go, not even for free with a Hilton suite-, as I can have 10 girls in a week-end and all of them much more sexy than her!”.

There are also some funny things that have changed.

Before I compared sometimes a beautiful girl to a famous actress, now I sometimes look to a movie thinking: “Hey, that actress is as beautiful as a FKK girl.”.

Germany looked to me before as a boring industrial cold country, it now looks much more sexy than many other tropical destinations, and I have to hide my enthusiasm when I have a trip planned to Germany. This is the good news with FKK, a trip to Germany is not suspicious, even with a bill from that famous Aral station in Ober Erlenbach, or that famous Ibis hotel near Konigbergerstr. in Frankfurt.

Did you ever notice also the effect you have on women the next day after having your brain fucked out in an FKK? It’s something very strange. I don’t know whether it is because once the sexual issue being solved, a man can finally communicate with a woman, or whether a woman instinctively feels and enjoys to be with a man sexually satisfied. May be it’s simply because a man is completely relaxed and self confident, or because a woman doesn’t fear anymore to be sexually harassed (gays for example are known to be popular among women).

Looking forward your reaction and your own experience.

Optimist

09-19-05, 15:50

Routard - I think you have got everything fairly spot on. So I won't talk about the bits you mention, but instead will cover something different

What I noticed was that fairly soon I began to find the talking to the girls of much more interest! The sex alone can be a bit meaningless - I remember recently going to Oase, looking at the girls and just thinking - well, what am I here for?. Do I really want to screw every girl in the world? So I left after 20 minutes! However I was off my game that day so it is not typical

The good thing about FKK is that I can have sex with anyone - but someone with a fine mind and a good heart is a greater challenge to connect to. The variation of emotional and mental relationship is even more varied than the sexual relationship. If you are in a room with someone then it is possible to share things which you would never talk about at work or in a bar. For me each provider I meet is unique and I value her as a person - however it means that I am getting incredibly choosy. I now want someone who is sexy, but someone who is willing to be a real person.

The visuals are good, but I have learn that the visuals don't make a good session. Nor even good sex. In the end what counts is whether they put a bit of their heart and soul in it (if it is just their body it doesn't count). Then the sex is a real event.

So that is why the one consistent theme in all my posts has always been that I treat them as equals in every way, even the ones who are bad apples

There are dangers however in getting addicted to FKK. The fantasy world is real and linked to the rest of our lives in the way we carry our memories and emotions. If we end up seeking at an FKK the sort of relationship we can have outside an FKK then we are heading for trouble. I met a man recently who was devastated that his favourite had left a club at short notice and he could not contact her. Getting too attached is a more common event than is reported on the forum - I had a lot of PMs at one point from men who had crossed the boundaries.

If this post is disjointed - apologies.

CBGBConnisur

09-19-05, 15:59

Germany looked to me before as a boring industrial cold country, it now looks much more sexy than many other tropical destinations, and I have to hide my enthusiasm when I have a trip planned to Germany. This is the good news with FKK, a trip to Germany is not suspicious, even with a bill from that famous Aral station in Ober Erlenbach, or that famous Ibis hotel near Konigbergerstr. in Frankfurt.

For some reason, industrial won't describe Germany in a decade or two, from what I hear most German companies are exporting jobs to Asia and other cheaper locales. I even found out a Volkswagen I was looking at was assembled in Mexico. I was reading somewhere that the Ruhr is reworking itself in some kind of hippy Bohemian image to attract tourists. Its actually a known fact that Germany has had an active sex industry for years. For most people countries and regions that are stereotyped as sexy include Australia, Brazil, France, Italy, Argentina, and the West Coast USA. The reality is with the exception of Brazil and Argentina, German FKKs offer better quality for dirtcheap prices, 50EUR for having sex with a Playboy calibre centerfold? That is too good for most people to believe. In New York, where I used to live, even a crack ***** wouldn't give you a handjob for that much money. German FKKs tend to cater mostly to locals, and don't advertise themselves like clubs in other countries. Ever notice FKKs tend to be in very inconspicious locales?

I remember a guy from California used to travel to Nevada for p4p then discovered Europe in the form of Amsterdam, took a side trip to Germany, and became an afficianado of FKKS, finding the cost of a five day romp in Germany to be CHEAPER than a five day romp in nearby Las Vegas. A session in the Chicken Ranch can cost between 500 to 1000US with a woman that is half as attractive and sexual as the worst looking woman in an FKK, a decent hotel room in Las Vegas costs around $150US(and I am talking about Hojo not the Bellagio/Luxor), so for a five day trip, it will cost $1000-$1200 for room and board, and assuming you fuck two women a day that will come to $5000US to $10,000US for five days of sexual fun in LV. On the other hand you can go to Europe and get real quality sex worlds above anything in North America for less. Roundtrip airfare from the West Coast US to Frankfurt costs around 600-900US depending on time of year and airline, a night at an Ibis(European HOJO) costs about 50-80EUR, one session plus entry at an FKK ranges from 70EUR to a 120EUR( the average cost gets cheaper as you have more sessions), even with the weak US Dollar Germany is quite a bargain next to Vegas. So five days of room and board come to 500EUR(room and board)+800EUR Airfare+ 2000EUR(50EUR a day for transport to clubs, 30 to 65 EUR entry, 300EUR for four to six half hour session which usually include kissing, daty, and bbbj) = 3300EUR or about $4000US versus $6,000US to $11,000US for five days of Vegas not including some time at the Casinos and other entertainment. The guy who went to Vegas had sex with about five to ten women while the guy who went to Germany, shagged a minimum of 20 to 30 gorgeous ladies.

Tawan

09-19-05, 17:05

FKK made me feel much more relaxed in life. This fabulous concept, probably the only one that answers to all human basic needs at the same time (lodging, food, clothing, social contacts and sex), is like a taste of paradise. Routard,

Nice post. Funny, I used to return home to my wife after an FKK-filled business trip and wonder why I didn't feel more guilt for my "sins." Eventually I realized that while I was feeling quite guilty, the feelings of happiness were much more powerful and crowded out everything else.

Sounds absurd, but today I have no doubt that FKKs can be a good thing for a marriage. When taken at the correct dosage, and in the right way, FKK clubs are simply good medicine for your soul. It fulfills a basic need that polite society forgot to tell you existed.

Now if only someone could create an equivalent for our wives (but I wonder how many of us are ready for that?).

Routard

09-19-05, 18:28

Shiatsu,

I agree 100% with you, I should have mentionned this also in my list of FKK side effects.

With the overflow of sex, I'm also much more into discovering the girls' personality. And sometimes you can indeed meet the most interesting person. I have to admit I had often sex in FKK just because it was the easiest way to learn to know better a girl and build up a special relationship with her. Hey, is that not supposed to be a woman's attitude? Once the sexual pressure being relieved, we are may be not that different. It's nice reading on this board sometimes Cordelia's opinion. As a side effet, I can say FKK learned me to understand much more women.

You are right to warn about getting in love with a girl. Yes, as I'm passionate, I fall in love, but only for the night. I never had a regular girl, as I don't have a regular FKK at first. In my opinion, having a regular girl is like having an affair, and that's exactly what I don't want to. It's my red line I don't want to cross and my way of dealing with the moral issue about our hobby.

Peter

09-19-05, 20:18

CBGBConnisur

09-19-05, 22:33

Routard & Shiatsu congrats, excellent content!

I have walked up to the line a couple of times, and found myself falling in love with a girl or two. I am still very sorry to hear that domi has left forever. I am happy for her that she has a kid and is in love with the father, but I miss having access to her. There are about 3 other girls I would love to be in contact with. I saw one in town recently with her Boyfriend. I walked by her in a cafe 4 times, until she saw me, we had eye contact, that was all I needed. I did not approach her. If she had been alone I might have (That would have been the cuban Anna I have posted pics of before).

But do all you can to stay on the right side of the line. Everytime a girl has offered me a phone number, I haven't taken it. It is the better option.

CBGB,

Maybe I book better, but midweek I am getting the Mirage for about $65 a night in Vegas, but otherwise point taken.

I am relatively addicted at about 3-4 clubs a month, but I am probably spending about 10K€ a year. That is a budget I can afford, but I have a good job.

You must be getting 150 to 165 sessions a year with that much money, 10KEUR is really nothing, I spend about 20KEUR total during my visits to Europe but spend it on nicer hotels and nice restaurants other stuff like that, you get more pussy than most Wall Street bankers I know. I used to spend upwards of $30,000US a year in the late 1990s during the stockmarket/high tech boom on escorts in New York, even incall brothels in NYC were just as expensive at an average of $400US including tips for the lady. The psychological impact of visiting an FKK getting your every sexual fantasy fullfilled is not to be underestimated, especially coming from the puritanical USA. The only release most of us Americans get is in Vancouver, Montreal, or Tijuana, and these places are still quite expensive compared to German FKKs.

The Mirage must be having some kind of special, I just checked on several travel sites and a decent room there averages close to $300US. Still my point being that its a lot cheaper to visit Germany for a few days than party in Vegas, even for those who live on the West Coast. Mongering in Vegas is really expensive, probably the most expensive resort city in the world for P4P and the quality isn't great when you compare it to Germany, even people I have known who visit Amsterdam find the impersonal service of the Walletjes to be an improvement over the expensive Vegas scene.

I also forgot to mention that Germany is an extremely safe and democratic country to visit. There are no machine gun toting paramilitary like cops running around all over the place like in Brazil or Argentina, where tourists have been killed. I recall a German tourist was murdered near my hotel in Rio, people told me that tourists get killed all the time in Rio. I think Thailand is also dangerous, its police are the most facist bastards you can meet. I walked around the Dom in Koln at 4AM without any worries, even behaved like I was walking in Disneyland.

Fkk Lover

09-19-05, 22:45

That's pretty heady stuff. I don't think there is much I can add to Routard & Shiatsu's comments on the FKK syndrome. I concur with practically every one of them.

One of the keys for me is the ability to hang out at the club. The various amenities and the food provided means that you can linger at the club for a much longer time than just purely getting a few pops... and there's so much more than the 20+ minutes that it takes you to complete a session. Most other places in the world where you P4P seem to be geared for you to get in, do your business and get out.

It's that constant state of arousal for 8 to 12 hours that keeps me coming back. You can read, take a nap, relax in the sauna or jacuzzi, get a professional massage, eat and look around the room just about every couple of minutes constantly reminding yourself that you can take any of the gaggle of pretty ladies in the facilities up to the room any time you like.

...And about falling in love. I for one am not too terribly jaded or cynical at the prospect of this happening. Yes, there are tremendous hurdles you must over come and millions of cautionary tales about people getting their heart broken or about the character of the women that get into this business blah, blah, blah. But for every one of these horror stories, you've got to wonder that there's more than a few that turned out ok... even an occasional "happily ever after" story. I just don't think too many people are gonna come to a public forum and report the occasion while being more than willing to recount their bad experiences.

I went though 1 that didn't have a storybook ending but I didn't think it was a horrible experience either. Am currently working on #2. As long as you keep some of your guards up and keep things in perspective, go ahead and enjoy the ride.

Am I too naive?

Fkk Lover

09-19-05, 23:12

i know about the problems in increased customer traffic during messe time, but what effect does oktoberfest have in there being too many tourists? air tickets are definitely more expensive in october than november but this isn't as much of a concern for me as visiting clubs when the customer/provider ratio isn't so oppressive.

last november i was unfortunate to have visited when the first snow of the season fell. while this wasn't much of a problem in visiting clubs, there were other things i wanted to do that i couldn't because of it. i really am interested in booking the ring-taxi on the nordschleife (that's a bmw m5 piloted by a race driver that takes you around the circuit at speeds faster than you are capable yourself)... but am afraid that if i go there again in november that i'm gonna suffer the same fate. so i'm debating about october but could use some advice.

the other thing that bugs me a little (but not much) is that i seemed to have found a comfort zone... a "safe harbor" if you will, in visiting just the 5 most popular clubs in my last couple of visits, world, palace, oase, phg and gt. while i've had decent times at places like psw, sauna world and other red carpet clubs in the nrw area in the past, i've pretty much nixed them for the sake of optimizing the enjoyment in a compressed 7 to 9 day trip. can somebody give me a compelling reason why i should revisit that strategy?

thanks

CBGBConnisur

09-20-05, 01:39

From what I know the NRW area clubs do not get many non-German customers, the Frankfurt area clubs are a different story since the city is a business hub. Most of the foreign visitors who go to the Hessen area clubs tend to be in Germany on business matters(executives, military personnel, trade fair attendees) so the issue of price inflation is not as big an issue as in touristy European cities like Amsterdam or London since these guys, forgive the pun, are looking at the bottom line. I found it easy as hell to get hotel bookings in Germany only a few days before leaving.

FKKs do not attract hordes of tourists like the Amsterdam Walletjes or even the bar clubs of Prague which are world famous. These two kinds of establishments make their money on tourists. FKKs work on a repeat business model and therefore depend on locals, that is why the service in an FKK is better than the Amsterdam Walletjes or even the more upscale clubs in the Netherlands, though I am working on changing this.

Euro100

09-20-05, 02:07

i know about the problems in increased customer traffic during messe time, but what effect does oktoberfest have in there being too many tourists?

abolutely zero influence on the clubs that you have listed. but is is a totally different story with the frnakfurt auto show, which is on right now. as is the octoberfest, by the way. the octoberfest is over on the 4th of october. so going in the second week of october removes the octoberfest from your considerations totally.

i really am interested in booking the ring-taxi on the nordschleife (that's a bmw m5 piloted by a race driver that takes you around the circuit at speeds faster than you are capable yourself).

hmmm, to me this does not sound like a lot of fun. it would be much better to get a short intro and then try it myself. even if you do not go as fast as the pros do, it is pretty cool to go 230 kmh on the ring.

the other thing that bugs me a little (but not much) is that i seemed to have found a comfort zone... a "safe harbor" if you will, in visiting just the 5 most popular clubs in my last couple of visits, world, palace, oase, phg and gt. while i've had decent times at places like psw, sauna world and other red carpet clubs in the nrw area in the past, i've pretty much nixed them for the sake of optimizing the enjoyment in a compressed 7 to 9 day trip. can somebody give me a compelling reason why i should revisit that strategy?

i generally follow the same strategy. but last week i went to augsburg and tried the colloseum. i was extremely impressed with the facility and the quality of the girls. so if you want a break from your usual routine, go try the cola. or samya in cologne. also a new club; and i have read a lot of good things about it on the german boards.

happy hunting
euro