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If BB action is kept in the room there is no way to prosecute the man, the woman, or the club. The only way this law can be effective is through psychological intimidation. Fear mongers are ultimately helping that to happen.
Keep posting reports. It will make others more comfortable asking for such service and prove how unenforceable it is.I defently Will! And don't give a f. What dramaqueens or self appointed forum police says. Admin already made it clear that sharIng info on BBBJ is usefull and allowed.
BTW flamers are ignored and not worth my time, sorry LOL.
Hessen Bub
07-08-17, 10:41
Admin said sharing info about BBBJ is useful? When did that happen?
You both will go on reporting about BBBJ. And in a few month you will find out it lead to CBJ only. So keep on posting about BBBJ just for the sake of it. I'd rather receive BBBJ and not report about it than vice versa.
No need for prosecution. Clubs will pressure girls not to practice bbbj. They already do. Reporting about it will make it worse. I can't see why this is so difficult to understand.
HB.
Admin said sharing info about BBBJ is useful? When did that happen?
You both will go on reporting about BBBJ. And in a few month you will find out it lead to CBJ only. So keep on posting about BBBJ just for the sake of it. I'd rather receive BBBJ and not report about it than vice versa.
No need for prosecution. Clubs will pressure girls not to practice bbbj. They already do. Reporting about it will make it worse. I can't see why this is so difficult to understand.
HB.Post 11227 and then your post 11228 got deleted apparantly for not aggreeing about forum rules or something LOL tons of BBBJ post around so clearly allowed? It Will continue and you Can keep on wasting your time trying to prevent them. But Who are you to do that LOL.
BigBuddy69
07-08-17, 11:24
I defently Will! And don't give a f. What dramaqueens or self appointed forum police says. Admin already made it clear that sharIng info on BBBJ is usefull and allowed.
BTW flamers are ignored and not worth my time, sorry LOL.Do you want that the girl who sucked you get fired?
Delta Indigo
07-08-17, 11:29
Admin said sharing info about BBBJ is useful? When did that happen?
You both will go on reporting about BBBJ. And in a few month you will find out it lead to CBJ only. So keep on posting about BBBJ just for the sake of it. I'd rather receive BBBJ and not report about it than vice versa.
No need for prosecution. Clubs will pressure girls not to practice bbbj. They already do. Reporting about it will make it worse. I can't see why this is so difficult to understand.
HB.I really think people are going overboard with their paranoia. First of all I think the new law prohibiting BBBJ was a reaction to AO and not BBBJ. Secondly many North Americans, I am partly one, tend to get paranoid if something is against the law. In the sex trade, law and enforcement are 2 different things. I think things will hardly change after things settle down. Now HB you like to sometimes ridicule Americans, but this time you are arguably being the paranoid one. Why won't you mention the 3 Hessen clubs which proactively prohibit BBBJ. I want to know where to go and not go and check the accuracy of your information?
Also why keep mentioning in the respective threads that BBBJ is illegal in this or that club? It is technically illegal in Germany and not any single club.
I find Google maps times to nearly always be optimistic.Google Maps timers normally go by GPS information they receive from android / maps users who have taken the same route in the past.
I find the timers to be rediculously accurate on german highways. In 4/5 cases I only miss the estimate by less than 2 minutes either way even if I drive over 2 hours. Perhaps you just drive slower than the average. Or you forget that speedometers allways lie...?
Delta: For once I agree with HB on a rare topic. But there is something to being ambiguous, and this is one of those times. Enjoy!
Hessen Bub
07-08-17, 12:00
Post 11227 and then your post 11228 got deleted apparantly for not aggreeing about forum rules or something LOL tons of BBBJ post around so clearly allowed? It Will continue and you Can keep on wasting your time trying to prevent them. But Who are you to do that LOL.That wasn't the question. Where did Amin say that sharing info about BBBJ is useful?
I always said the sex tourists are ruining the service in the clubs. This is a new aspect to that fact.
My posts were deleted for other reasons. I assumed it would happen and it did.
HB.
Hessen Bub
07-08-17, 12:03
Now HB you like to sometimes ridicule Americans, but this time you are arguably being the paranoid one.
Also why keep mentioning in the respective threads that BBBJ is illegal in this or that club? It is technically illegal in Germany and not any single club.I don't think I am paranoid. May look like it. Germany is not a 3rd world country where you pay a few dollars to the authorities to turn their head away. The club owners know that and will do what is necessary to protect their business.
HB.
I know of a girl who was thrown out of a club a few days ago because she did BBBJ. The guy also had to leave.How did the club know BBBJ had occurred? Was it public?
Clubs will pressure girls not to practice bbbj.I could see the club pressuring the WGs. Also, WGs could start pressuring other WGs not to provide BBBJ as inclusive option.
Why won't you mention the 3 Hessen clubs which proactively prohibit BBBJ. I want to know where to go and not go and check the accuracy of your information?
I'd recommend attending clubs where you already have regulars. I expect these WGs would want to retain your business and continue to offer BBBJ as inclusive (especially if you have been more than a 50 EUR /30 MIN customer in the past). Then test the waters with other WGs, but at least you have a fallback.
Member #4585
07-08-17, 12:31
I'd recommend attending clubs where you already have regulars. I expect these WGs would want to retain your business and continue to offer BBBJ as inclusive (especially if you have been more than a 50 EUR /30 MIN customer in the past). Then test the waters with other WGs, but at least you have a fallback.This is going to run out in the long term when your regulars leave the industry or change their minds on where they stand on the issue.
Let us take some advice given before by some people and turn it back on them, that is, let us wait and see what happens. In the meantime do not try to censor and flame those who report on AO and BBBJ.
Hessen Bub
07-08-17, 12:43
How did the club know BBBJ had occurred? Was it public?The stupid idiot didn't have anything better to do than brag about it when he came back to the bar. Other guys and girls heard it. Some girls went to the reception. Guy and girl had to leave the club. All other girls were scared and BBBJ was gone in that club.
HB.
Hessen Bub
07-08-17, 12:44
I'd recommend attending clubs where you already have regulars. I expect these WGs would want to retain your business and continue to offer BBBJ as inclusive (especially if you have been more than a 50 EUR /30 MIN customer in the past). Then test the waters with other WGs, but at least you have a fallback.As you saw in the World thread that doesn't help BBBJ is gone from World. Even for the long time regulars it seems to be impossible right now to receive BBBJ.
HB.
Also, WGs could start pressuring other WGs not to provide BBBJ as inclusive option.Maybe, but as I see it now, the chances are higher that girls won't pressure each others out of the fear of the pressured girls running to management claiming girl #1 is marketing to be providing BBBJ in the first place.
I agree on the favouring of girls you may know. At least to a slightly higher degree than before...
This is going to run out in the long term when your regulars leave the industry or change their minds on where they stand on the issue.Not necessarily. New girls always tends to take a hint and get clued up on the status quo in a club one way or another.
Citizen Kane
07-08-17, 12:51
To my mind this isn't exactly rocket science.
Let's say HYPOTHETICALLY that 80% of girls in a given club are providing the same service as they were in June;
Then Markus Monger elects to post on the internet that Helena the Hypothetical Hooker gave him the best BBBJ in recorded history so now he's decided to leave his wife and kids. Said post is spotted by / pointed out to club management. (Ask yourself; if you owned / managed a club wouldn't you read a couple of websites that give you an inside track on what's happening in your club behind your back? I fucking would...).
Helena gets pulled up in front of the manager. Despite telling him it's all internet bullshit, Helena gets kicked out because the manager 1) doesn't want to lose the club licence and 2) he wants to send a message to the other girls in the club.
Given this not unrealistic scenario, what do you think will happen to the amount of girls in that club that will be willing to provide the same service as before?
I want to know where to go and not go and check the accuracy of your information?ARTEMIS, harmony, atmos still BBBJ inside room some charge extra, atmosphere in clubs all the same, still same amount of beatiful girls and noone seemed scared LOL More like ready to party girls! The ones I talked with about the new law, the response was "fuck the law" LOL and I'm in these clubs regulary, visiting again next week.
Hessen Bub
07-08-17, 12:53
ARTEMIS, harmony, atmos still BBBJ inside room some charge extra, atmosphere in clubs all the same, still same amount of beatiful girls and noone seemed scared LOL More like ready to party girls! The ones I talked with about the new law, the response was "fuck the law" LOL and I'm in these clubs regulary, visiting again next week.Go visit World.
Seems like Optimist and CK are the only ones not exclusively thinking with their dick.
HB.
Delta Indigo
07-08-17, 12:53
As you saw in the World thread that doesn't help BBBJ is gone from World. Even for the long time regulars it seems to be impossible right now to receive BBBJ.
HB.Ok, World is one of the three clubs. World has ugly girls anyhow. So who really cares. After things settle down and business is down in World, things will change. Germany is not a country where you can bribe the police, but the law in certain areas is never practiced uniformly. What about blasphemy laws and insulting a foreign head of state.
Citizen Kane
07-08-17, 12:56
Go visit World.
Seems like Optimist and CK are the only ones not exclusively thinking with their dick.
HB.Yeah, but I did vote for Brexit so it sort of balances out.
Hessen Bub
07-08-17, 12:57
Yeah, but I did vote for Brexit so it sort of balances out.Touché. Guess that decision wasn't taken by your dick though.
HB.
Go visit World.
Seems like Optimist and CK are the only ones not exclusively thinking with their dick.
HB.Yes fucking idiots ruining everything bc they have to brag about it and say they did so only to help.
Guess tourists don't care about it like locals bc they are willing to pay extra.
What about blasphemy laws and insulting a foreign head of state.What do you mean? That those topics are more than complete gibberish and metaphysical nonsense? There is a distinct difference between words and action. Some heads of states and religions truly needs the finger. Protests should always be allowed in a democratic country.
Hessen Bub
07-08-17, 13:02
Guess tourists don't care about it like locals bc they are willing to pay extra.Just that paying extra will not get you a BBBJ if things go wrong.
HB.
Just that paying extra will not get you a BBBJ if things go wrong.
HB.This padawan will not pay for it bc this is the only way to prevent pricing to get out of hand and ruining the FKK land.
Touch. Guess that decision wasn't taken by your dick though.
HB.Who says a dick can not make wise decisions? The cock should always consider its longevity of life, or the dick is being unwise.
Member #4585
07-08-17, 13:10
Not necessarily. New girls allways tends to take a hint and get clued up on the status quo in a club one way or another.Is that "not necessarily" the same in new girls taking the hint that they should ask 100 euro for a 30 minute standard session?
Is that "not necessarily" the same in new girls taking the hint that they should ask 100 euro for a 30 minute standard session?Had a girl asking me for that at the locker last month too. I gave her 55. She gave me back the 5 as she got mad. I smiled and put it back inside my wallet. Happy for the present as I was. Just let them. And expect the same old as long as nothing new is being said. And if you don't like the terms, don't buy it.
Member #4585
07-08-17, 13:29
Just that paying extra will not get you a BBBJ if things go wrong.
HB.Is that learnt from experience of paying extra for BBBJ or your plain supposition?
This is going to run out in the long term when your regulars leave the industry or change their minds on where they stand on the issue. If a regular continues to offer BBBJ as inclusive, the customer should reward her by continuing to repeat. As UH once put it, this would starve out the less well-behaved WGs. So the less-well behaved WGs have two options: leave the business or correct their service / prices to be aligned with reality. If everyone followed a similar short-term strategy, that might have a market-correcting effect that could last longer-term.
Let us take some advice given before by some people and turn it back on them, that is, let us wait and see what happens.I've scaled back my plans to attend just so I can see what happens. It gives me an excuse to check out other P6 options or other countries. I'd encourage others to do the same. It could be that the clubs and WGs really self-enforce CBJ and go overboard with it alienating most of their business in the next few months. And that point, they may re-think what they are doing.
ExpatLover
07-08-17, 13:35
ARTEMIS, harmony, atmos still BBBJ inside room some charge extra, atmosphere in clubs all the same, still same amount of beatiful girls and noone seemed scared LOL More like ready to party girls! The ones I talked with about the new law, the response was "fuck the law" LOL and I'm in these clubs regulary, visiting again next week.Some clubs are delaying a bit the implementation of the new law to take a competitive advantage but for sure it will come very soon.
I had originally 2 upcomming FKK trips planned. Reduced it to 1 extended trip to get a good personal overview now. If I am not satisfied, I will move elsewhere in October etc. But going by reports always seems like a big mishap for me. Need to see for myself. Or I can just stay at home. The local scene is improving too... but getting away is part of the fun too... feeling like you are on an adventure, lol
Hessen Bub
07-08-17, 14:13
Is that learnt from experience of paying extra for BBBJ or your plain supposition?It's what happened at World and in 2 other clubs. Paying extra wouldn't buy you BBBJ because we're terrified by club management.
HB.
Member #4581
07-08-17, 16:38
To my mind this isn't exactly rocket science.
Let's say HYPOTHETICALLY that 80% of girls in a given club are providing the same service as they were in June;
Then Markus Monger elects to post on the internet that Helena the Hypothetical Hooker gave him the best BBBJ in recorded history so now he's decided to leave his wife and kids. Said post is spotted by / pointed out to club management. (Ask yourself; if you owned / managed a club wouldn't you read a couple of websites that give you an inside track on what's happening in your club behind your back? I fucking would...).
Helena gets pulled up in front of the manager. Despite telling him it's all internet bullshit, Helena gets kicked out because the manager 1) doesn't want to lose the club licence and 2) he wants to send a message to the other girls in the club.
Given this not unrealistic scenario, what do you think will happen to the amount of girls in that club that will be willing to provide the same service as before?There are two sides to this debate. The point being made by Neuro and Others is that if there is widespread flouting of the law, police can't prosecute so many, or the club can't kick out all their girls and clients. And widespread flouting of the law will not happen unless everyone knows that it is thusly being flouted by others -- if everyone jay walked, as people do in New York City for example, everyone else will too -- and open communication of this is an important step in this direction. Well, that is their argument.
Let's take the opposite side -- say, we all keep quiet in this forum and shut up. But this is only a small forum of a few dozen English speakers, most from outside Germany. What's to say that every other forum, every other gathering, will also keep quiet? Indeed, HB's example demonstrated the opposite. One single person bragged at a bar, and that was enough to shut down in the entire club. For this self censorship (and hope that such self censorship and the good behavior shown there, will get rewarded with preservation of BBBJ) to work, every person every where has to show tremendous self discipline. We know such discipline simply doesn't exist in this world.
I can merits on both sides. Only thing I know is there is no easy solution.
I always said the sex tourists are ruining the service in the clubs. This is a new aspect to that fact.
HB.Happens not often, but agree with HB on this. And it will increase prices even more (for "illegal" BBBJ as well I am afraid.).
Citizen Kane
07-08-17, 18:10
There are two sides to this debate. The point being made by Neuro and Others is that if there is widespread flouting of the law, police can't prosecute so many, or the club can't kick out all their girls and clients. And widespread flouting of the law will not happen unless everyone knows that it is thusly being flouted by others -- if everyone jay walked, as people do in New York City for example, everyone else will too -- and open communication of this is an important step in this direction. Well, that is their argument.In Germany? Really?
Let's take the opposite side -- say, we all keep quiet in this forum and shut up. But this is only a small forum of a few dozen English speakers, most from outside Germany. What's to say that every other forum, every other gathering, will also keep quiet? Indeed, HB's example demonstrated the opposite. One single person bragged at a bar, and that was enough to shut down in the entire club. For this self censorship (and hope that such self censorship and the good behavior shown there, will get rewarded with preservation of BBBJ) to work, every person every where has to show tremendous self discipline. We know such discipline simply doesn't exist in this world.BBFS has always existed in non-AO clubs despite the fact that girls could be kicked out for it. How? The participants kept their mouths shut.
Jnpr: LOL, comparing a handful of FKK's in Germany (even 200 is a very very small number. Pattaya has as many gogo bars alone, and a dousin cops can take care of all of those easily...) to people walking in New York? I think we are starting to loose track of sanity here.
No, there is only one side here. The other one is only working in imagination land. And yes, 99% keep their mouth shut... especially of these things. Perhaps even 99.99%..
Hessen Bub
07-08-17, 18:19
BBFS has always existed in non-AO clubs despite the fact that girls could be kicked out for it. How? The participants kept their mouths shut.And now BBBJ falls under the same category. But plenty of members seem to have a huge problem with that.
HB.
Member #4581
07-08-17, 18:35
Jnpr: LOL, comparing a handful of FKK's in Germany (even 200 is a very very small number. Pattaya has as many gogo bars alone, and a dousin cops can take care of all of those easily...) to people walking in New York? I think we are starting to loose track of sanity here.
No, there is only one side here. The other one is only working in imaginationland. And yes, 99% keep their mouth shut... especially of these things. Perhaps even 99.99%..It's about the widespread flouting of the law. If you can't see the analogy, so be it.
You can get far in life by insisting your view is the only one that exists, I am sure. And I am glad that you can speak for 99.99% of the people, (despite the fact that even on this forum the opinion is splitting 50/50)
Member #4581
07-08-17, 18:46
In Germany? Really?
BBFS has always existed in non-AO clubs despite the fact that girls could be kicked out for it. How? The participants kept their mouths shut.Even HB and others on your side are not saying they will not flout the law, merely that they will not talk about flouting the law.
Anyway, what's the world view of your side? Neuro articulated his side --The law will get ignored because so many others are flouting it. There is a natural demand for it, and if everyone can see that others are getting it, they will demand it as well, and when there is so much demand, supply will come through. That's their view. Perhaps it is too optimistic, perhaps it is realistic, I don't know. But it is a view.
What is the opposite view? That you hope everyone keeps their mouth shut? Just how exactly would you ensure that will happen? One single guy bragging can shut down the practice in an entire club, per HB.
Even the BBFS example shows the limits of this. It is perhaps available, but very secretly, very hush hush, and at an exorbitant price perhaps, but we don't know, because it can't be talked about in the open. Do you want BBBJ to be like BBFS?
Member #4581
07-08-17, 19:07
I don't know if bbbfs has worked "quite well" because I have never wanted it or sought it, and it has never been discussed here. And if that is the example of something that works well, and if that is to be a role model of how we want BBBJ to become in future, well good luck with that.
And claims that other side of the argument has no merit, that they don't think or think with their dicks, their arguments are insane...these are not helpful, and rather childish.
The point being made by Neuro and Others is that if there is widespread flouting of the law, police can't prosecute so many, or the club can't kick out all their girls and clients. .Jnpr30, you appear to be a law-abiding, tax-paying citizen. These clubs and WGs, maybe not so much. To that end, they might be willing to work together to police themselves, because they don't want to give the authorities any excuse to scrutinize.
And widespread flouting of the law will not happen unless everyone knows that it is thusly being flouted by others -- if everyone jay walked, as people do in New York City for example, everyone else will too -- and open communication of this is an important step in this direction.Drugs are illegal. I don't need to read about in a forum to know that many people use drugs. And people are willing to sell it to you, provided you are not going to tell everyone who your dealer is.
Member #4581
07-08-17, 19:15
Jnpr30, you appear to be a law-abiding, tax-paying citizen. These clubs and WGs, maybe not so much. To that end, they might be willing to work together to police themselves, because they don't want to give the authorities any excuse to scrutinize.
Drugs are illegal. I don't need to read about in a forum to know that it is available. And people are willing to sell it to you, provided you are not going to tell everyone who your dealer is.Precisely. Some laws are so laughable that everyone flouts, and it becomes extinct in practice. Even the jay walking example is one such. I have jay walked in NYC but don't in some other places, because I simply follow what other people do on the street. By the same token, I have never mongered in the US because it's both illegal and not openly flouted. If it was illegal but openly flouted, who knows what I might have done.
Precisely. Some laws are so laughable that everyone flouts, and it becomes extinct in practice. Even the jay walking example is one such. I have jay walked in NYC but don't in some other places, because I simply follow what other people do on the street.FKK clubs are linked to motorcycle clubs, who branch out to illegal enterprises. These owners might fear that the authorities are just fishing for any little excuse to raid their operation. So using your NYC example. Let's say the authorities suspect some Chinatown businesses are fronts for illegal businesses. These businesses might want to ensure that nobody is jaywalking on their turf, laughable as the law may be. In the criminals' minds, the authorities trying to catch jaywalkers is just a ruse for them to install more cameras to monitor their real target.
Member #4581
07-08-17, 20:15
McA -- Club managements are one agent but not the only agent in this equation. Mongering happens outside the clubs as well. And the club managements do have to balance the risk of raids and other regulatory actions, vs risk of losing business due to dwindling customer interest and traffic. Up to now, they were able to meet demand legally, but now demand is still there but supply is illegal. What should / would they do? I don't know. I suspect even they might not have a long term plan yet.
I am not saying HB's argument doesn't have merit, but I also think Neuro's argument has merit as well. I still don't know how the world looks like in HB's view in two years -- once all the regulars are gone, and BBBJ is mostly underground, hush hush, and whenever someone mentions it in public, all the regulars are expected to jump on that person and shut him down?
The bbbfs example is not quite the same and anyway not attractive. Not everyone wants BBFS --I simply don't (even if it was provided free). But everyone or most everyone wants BBBJ. And if someday BBBJ becomes as rare or as hush hush as bbbfs, available from a few girls to a few regulars, communicated through PMs or quietly person to person, but forbidden in the open and with the threat of a sword hanging on the neck, then it is too much of a hassle and simply not worth it (for me anyway). The only way I can see myself asking for BBBJ is if it becomes a paper law only, not enforced much in practice, and everyone openly breaking it. Otherwise, I will stay with CBJ and be happy with it.
Prostitutes, business owners and clients filed an appeal before the "Verfassungsgericht" (Karlsruhe) end of June.
Here in German:
http://www.moz.de/artikel-ansicht/dg/0/1/1583007
Don't raise your hopes though. The German Supreme Court is known in Germany as "the toothless lion" ("Loewe ohne zahn").
Citizen Kane
07-08-17, 20:57
Do you want BBBJ to be like BBFS?Like it or not, since the 1st of July there effectively is no legal difference between BBBJ and BBFS. The consequences for the girls of getting caught for both are now the same (excluding health).
The "if we all ignore it, nothing will change, they can't arrest all of us" argument basis seems to be that if we are aware of which girls still provide BBBJ at no extra cost then market dynamics will force other girls to do the same seems hopelessly optimistic. In reality what will happen is that the non-BBBJ girls will inform on the BBBJ girls because they will view it as unfair competition and will have the law on their side.
ExpatLover
07-08-17, 20:57
Prostitutes, business owners and clients filed an appeal before the "Verfassungsgericht" (Karlsruhe) end of June.
Here in German:
http://www.moz.de/artikel-ansicht/dg/0/1/1583007
Don't raise your hopes though. The German Supreme Court is known in Germany as "the toothless lion" ("Loewe ohne zahn").Yes of course it is managed by a Berliner Lawyer, who is looking more or less isolated, I don't believe he is representing a huge number of prostitutes. I am not confident that it will cancel the implementation of the new law.
Yes, law is to protect WGs and our and family health, but independant WGs are free to provide kind of sex they want to have with us, they can provide different services with different guys. BBBJ and BB sex in AO clubs are not standard services anymore, but illegal and prosecuted for clients, WGs are free about this. Just ask and choose before going to room, like about kissing.The law applies to all sex for pay.
This is going to kill the tourism industry. I think everyone should boycott until the change the law back. If enough complaints occur then they will change it back.No, a boycott won't help. Not a chance. Sex tourism is a small fraction of tourism, and no politician would like to be seen changing the law as a result of a punter boycott.
Member #4581
07-08-17, 21:05
Like it or not, since the 1st of July there effectively is no legal difference between BBBJ and BBFS. The consequences for the girls of getting caught for both are now the same (excluding health).
The "if we all ignore it, nothing will change, they can't arrest all of us" argument basis seems to be that if we are aware of which girls still provide BBBJ at no extra cost then market dynamics will force other girls to do the same seems hopelessly optimistic. In reality what will happen is that the non-BBBJ girls will inform on the BBBJ girls because they will view it as unfair competition and will have the law on their side.Wrt first paragraph, yes we are all aware of that (I. E. No legal distinction between bbbfs and BBBJ) although I believe the consequence is to the guys and not the girls.
As to the second paragraph. We will see. Remains to be seen. These things are a work in progress and to make a grand pronouncement upfront about what might happen five years hence is a difficult thing to do.
ExpatLover
07-08-17, 21:10
Like it or not, since the 1st of July there effectively is no legal difference between BBBJ and BBFS. The consequences for the girls of getting caught for both are now the same (excluding health).
The "if we all ignore it, nothing will change, they can't arrest all of us" argument basis seems to be that if we are aware of which girls still provide BBBJ at no extra cost then market dynamics will force other girls to do the same seems hopelessly optimistic. In reality what will happen is that the non-BBBJ girls will inform on the BBBJ girls because they will view it as unfair competition and will have the law on their side.As already shared with you, most of the clever girls will not do BBBJ just to protect their health and also because they don't like sucking dicks without condom. In a club many things are know by many people if a girl will get better business because she is doing BBBJ for example at World she will be fired straight away, most probably it will be the same in all the serious clubs.
Polyamorist
07-08-17, 21:29
This is going to kill the tourism industry. It's going to kill more than that. This July 1 law is terrible timing for Germany. Right now many wealthy London businesses have to move their headquarters due to Brexit. Natural choices would be Frankfurt or Zurich. And the German government chooses this moment to attack the FKK system?
BigBuddy69
07-08-17, 21:41
No, a boycott won't help. Not a chance. Sex tourism is a small fraction of tourism, and no politician would like to be seen changing the law as a result of a punter boycott.Maybe a boycott would make the owners of clubs more BBBJ-friendly!
Citizen Kane
07-08-17, 21:42
although I believe the consequence is to the guys and not the girls.The girl loses her place of work. That's a consequence. I seriously doubt that clubs will ever intentionally involve the Police in these matters so I think the threat to guys is relatively minimal, particularly if we are still talking about internet posts.
As to the second paragraph. We will see. Remains to be seen. These things are a work in progress and to make a grand pronouncement upfront about what might happen five years hence is a difficult thing to do.Who mentioned 5 years? I'm talking about now.
I suspect Merkel will have outlawed ejaculation in 5 years anyway.
It's going to kill more than that. This July 1 law is terrible timing for Germany. Right now many wealthy London businesses have to move their headquarters due to Brexit. Natural choices would be Frankfurt or Zurich. And the German government chooses this moment to attack the FKK system?Indeed, didn't we read in here that one British banking worker wanted to be moved to Frankfurt? Then wonder what the remaining 90% of readers who doesn't post are thinking. Or the likes of a certain Maltese politician in Acapulco. Fact (based on studies) says that wherever sex is easily obtainable, business flourishes.
Now you are getting lunatic.
HB.I tend to agree with Poly here. As a rhetorical question, 'where you you apply for work?' There is a reason property prices are highest where off work activities are the best. The cities simply attracts the most liberal thinking creative workers. And who knows who else at the top might want a go as well?
ExpatLover
07-09-17, 03:56
It's going to kill more than that. This July 1 law is terrible timing for Germany. Right now many wealthy London businesses have to move their headquarters due to Brexit. Natural choices would be Frankfurt or Zurich. And the German government chooses this moment to attack the FKK system?Let us be realistic, probably not all the bankers will visit the FKK, some will do escorting others are gay, and also some have a regular life. What is the ratio of bankers potentially visiting the FKK comparing to the huge amount of visitors attending the big fairs in Germany, mostly Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Hannover, etc. The new law will not affect the a lot the FKK industry, except some extreme forum members, a significant percentage of men were never accepting something without condom just because they have a wife, girlfriend etc. And they don't want to get in serious trouble by catching a disease.
Fact (based on studies) says that wherever sex is easily obtainable, business flourishes.Alas the correlation in economics between prosperity and availability of sex for men is, if anything, the reverse. Economic surpluses price women out of the sexual market and men need to travel abroad for sex (US of A, Korea, Japan, etc.). If a country is broke the governement has no wealth to transfer to women and women need to trade sex to get by (Philippines, Cameroons, etc.).
Delta Indigo
07-09-17, 08:04
Indeed, didn't we read in here that one British banking worker wanted to be moved to Frankfurt? Then wonder what the remaining 90% of readers who doesn't post are thinking. Or the likes of a certain Maltese politician in Acapulco. Fact (based on studies) says that wherever sex is easily obtainable, business flourishes.But of all the prime locations mooted for gaining finance jobs from the Brexit fallout, Frankfurt, Paris, Dublin and Amsterdam. By far, Frankfurt is the best for pay for play. In Paris and Dublin it is downright illegal and Amsterdam has no cool clubs but awful service in windows. And if you were a bank, you would be fine with your employees having sex but not being high all day.
So Frankfurt is simply better than all the alternatives. Zurich won't actually gain directly from Brexit.
Maybe a boycott would make the owners of clubs more BBBJ-friendly!The law is Police driven and the cops don't want the clubs to flourish because of the cash flow going through them.
Member #4585
07-09-17, 11:00
Indeed, didn't we read in here that one British banking worker wanted to be moved to Frankfurt?
I have a question regarding the EU immigration.
I will stay in the UK for one month.
However, during that month, I want to fly to Germany and spend my weekends in FKK clubs.
By doing that, it means I will enter / leave the UK / Germany for 3-4 times within one month.
I think this is going to draw the attention of the immigration officers.
What to tell the immigration officers on both sides?
Just tell them "Because there is no proper FKK Sauna Clubs in the UK, I have to go to Germany for FKK Sauna clubs to relax"?I think this is the post you were referring to. I do not believe that the writer mentioned that they was a banker.
Anyway think of the outcry from Germans of further unwanted immigration to Germany. You would never hear the end of it.
Member #4585
07-09-17, 11:04
But of all the prime locations mooted for gaining finance jobs from the Brexit fallout, Frankfurt, Paris, Dublin and Amsterdam. By far, Frankfurt is the best for pay for play. In Paris and Dublin it is downright illegal and Amsterdam has no cool clubs but awful service in windows. And if you were a bank, you would be fine with your employees having sex but not being high all day.
So Frankfurt is simply better than all the alternatives. Zurich won't actually gain directly from Brexit.Given some of the fury of some members here over immigration to Germany. It may be better to not encourage or advocate more immigrants to come Germany given the backlash that rose and was discussed on these FKK threads. Firms in other countries thinking of sending immigrants need to consider this backlash.
It is not. It will lead to a situation where BBBJ will be gone everywhere. I guess this is my last attempt to try to make that point clear. I hope the influence of ISG on service is as miniscule as the brains of those who insist on reporting about BBBJ.
HB.Yes I agree with Master HB.
Just stop posting about this. People can pm each other about this matter instead.
Also lets see how things are going to be 3-6 months from now.
Member #4585
07-09-17, 11:44
Yes I agree with Master HB.
Just stop posting about this. People can pm each other about this matter instead.
Also lets see how things are going to be 3-6 months from now.Explain your reasoning to Admin as well.
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was edited or deleted because it appeared to be a public effort to discourage members from posting information. If you have a concern about information posted by another member, then please contact them privately by PM. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines for further information.
Here it is.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1089-General-Info&p=2056623&viewfull=1#post2056623
Explain your reasoning to Admin as well.
.Even if admin will allow posting about this matter doesn't mean that we should do it as it will likely do more harm rite?
Copying this from the Dietzenbach thread. My last attempt. I'm out on that topic.
It is not. It will lead to a situation where BBBJ will be gone everywhere. I guess this is my last attempt to try to make that point clear. I hope the influence of ISG on service is as miniscule as the brains of those who insist on reporting about BBBJ.
HB.Nice attempt, but the reports Will always be posted, I just hope admins will shut those of them flaming the legit reports of BBBJ Down. BBBJ will always be there, legal or not in the club, some girls always like an extra or a nice tip, some girls might be affraid of new law and some girls don't give a fuck when inside room. Noone is the same, just like you and me and thank god for that LOL.
Eventho we have different opionions you can still keep the tone, saying miniscule brains cause not all having same opinion as you. Kinda sad LOL.
Eventho we have different opionions you can still keep the tone, saying miniscule brains cause not all having same opinion as you. Kinda sad LOL.You sound like Trump! :)
And maybe we should all take a good look at that film "Fight Club" and learn the first rule.
Citizen Kane
07-09-17, 12:41
It's fairly common knowledge that girls read this and other boards. If they think they're going to be outed for providing BBBJ they won't provide it.
It's fairly common knowledge that girls read this and other boards. If they think they're going to be outed for providing BBBJ they won't provide it.Many girls from most of the clubs can't read English, that goes both for German and east European girls, this you already should know as an FKK monger. When you say "the girls" surely your not meaning them all, but yes there might be girls out of 1000 girls Can read here.
Flamers are ignored, keep the tone and ill reply.
Member #4585
07-09-17, 13:03
It's fairly common knowledge that girls read this and other boards. If they think they're going to be outed for providing BBBJ they won't provide it.One writer said that "Hard, observable evidence should convince anybody sane. ".
Following that theme, so far, as before the law change on 1 July we have is conjecture (which means an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information) and making implications off of that conjecture.
I still advocate the reporting until we know better what the situation is. I am on the let us wait and see, so until then its status quo. No one was talking about this before 1 July so what is the sudden change.
Withholding information is not going to help people know either way what is the correct position to take. More information may make it settled.
Withholding names of clubs where BBBJ is banned does not help. Saying three clubs in Hessen have banned BBBJ implies that the other clubs are still performing BBBJ. Then we have hearsay, not hard observable evidence first hand, of where a girl has been banned for providing BBBJ since it was overheard by a man in a club.
The girls have low opinion of the men, the FKK girls, think that old fat and bald men are the dolts of the household, a mere male and therefore little more than a brain-stem with a bank account to quote another writer.
Member #4585
07-09-17, 13:06
Even if admin will allow posting about this matter doesn't mean that we should do it as it will likely do more harm rite?What is your hard, observable evidence that this is the case?
Should not the status quo prevail until known otherwise. I am advocating what the seniors have said prior of let us wait and see what happens. Until then business as usual, right?
Citizen Kane
07-09-17, 13:14
Many girls from most of the clubs can't read english, that goes both for german and east European girls, this you already should know as an FKK monger. When you say "the girls" surely your not meaning them all, but yes there might be girls out of 1000 girls Can read here.
Flamers are ignored, keep the tone and ill reply.Personally I think your numbers are low (I remember years ago when a girl outed LBC in a club based on the reports he had written here) but that said they don't all have to read it. Word spreads, particularly amongst women. Besides, they could probably read it the same way I read Lustscout. Online translator.
Personally I think your numbers are low (I remember years ago when a girl outed LBC in a club based on the reports he had written here) but that said they don't all have to read it. Word spreads, particularly amongst women. Besides, they could probably read it the same way I read Lustscout. Online translator.You might be right, but lets see, the type of girls I know of won't even bother. Using their phones at work to do selfies, texting family and friends. Off work they sleep till noon and getting ready for work. That"'s what Info I usually get from talking to them. I don't think Many read here, and even bother with translation, but yes rumors spread easily within the girls that hangout in the club. But def not all girls talk to each other. Some just by themselves, some with a few friends and the gangs of 4-5 mainly from same country ex. Romanians, Germans.
Hessen Bub
07-09-17, 13:48
I am advocating what the seniors have said prior of let us wait and see what happens. Until then business as usual, right?Never said that. Not about reporting about bbbj after July 1st.
HB.
Citizen Kane
07-09-17, 13:51
OK. Thought experiment for you.
Lets just say you're a happy monger who absolutely despises BBBJ for some inexplicably reason. You really fucking hate it and this new law is the best thing you've ever heard.
How would you go about making sure this new law is enforced to the letter?
Probably a good place to start would be to publicly name and shame girls that were still offering this disguising, illegal practice.
I'm guessing keeping your head down and not mentioning it would be pretty low on your to do list.
Hessen Bub
07-09-17, 13:52
I'm afraid he and others will not get it, no matter how simple you put it for them. I'm wondering how they were able to register here.
HB.
Neurosynth
07-09-17, 13:59
OK. Thought experiment for you.
Lets just say you're a happy monger who absolutely despises BBBJ for some inexplicably reason. You really fucking hate it and this new law is the best thing you've ever heard.
How would you go about making sure this new law is enforced to the letter?
Probably a good place to start would be to publicly name and shame girls that were still offering this disguising, illegal practice.
I'm guessing keeping your head down and not mentioning it would be pretty low on your to do list.By this logic prostitution in the US should have been wiped out with the advent of the web. Coverage on US prostitution boards is fairly complete. But it, in fact, has not wiped out prostitution. Prostitution boards have made it easier to find than ever, and have provided a degree of protection for both consumers and providers.
Hessen Bub
07-09-17, 14:09
By this logic prostitution in the US should have been wiped out with the advent of the web. Coverage on US prostitution boards is fairly complete. But it, in fact, has not wiped out prostitution. Prostitution boards have made it easier to find than ever, and have provided a degree of protection for both consumers and providers.Ah yes. And that applies for all of the FKK clubs in the US?
HB.
[Deleted by Admin]
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Alas the correlation in economics between prosperity and availability of sex for men is, if anything, the reverse. Economic surpluses price women out of the sexual market and men need to travel abroad for sex (US of A, Korea, Japan, etc.). If a country is broke the governement has no wealth to transfer to women and women need to trade sex to get by (Philippines, Cameroons, etc.).That is the north / south divide. Has absolutely nothing to do with sex.
I think this is the post you were referring to. I do not believe that the writer mentioned that they was a banker.
Anyway think of the outcry from Germans of further unwanted immigration to Germany. You would never hear the end of it.Wrong post.
I'm afraid he and others will not get it, no matter how simple you put it for them. I'm wondering how they were able to register here.
HB.I shouldn't answer this post, but come on, were not of same opinions so we shouldn't be able to register? Dude you need to open your own forum LOL.
I shouldn't answer this post, but come on, were not of same opinions so we shouldn't be able to register? Dude you need to open your own forum LOL.Can't you read? He didn't say about people with different opinions shouldn't be able to register. He was questioning yr intelligence 😂.
Guess you don't need to be a smart guy to register in a forum, LOL.
Citizen Kane
07-09-17, 15:31
By this logic prostitution in the US should have been wiped out with the advent of the web. Coverage on US prostitution boards is fairly complete. But it, in fact, has not wiped out prostitution. Prostitution boards have made it easier to find than ever, and have provided a degree of protection for both consumers and providers.And that's what makes the US top of every mongers destination list ;-)
Honestly, I don't know enough about the US scene to compare but I believe Nevada is the only place that is in anyway comparable to the German scene. Girls work in legal clubs and condoms are mandatory for everything. Is it common for consumers to post reports saying that girls don't use condoms there? What are the consequences? Can clubs lose their licences?
By this logic prostitution in the US should have been wiped out with the advent of the web. Coverage on US prostitution boards is fairly complete. But it, in fact, has not wiped out prostitution.Shutting down a FKK club would be fairly simple. Shutting down underground, small, scattered independent operators (apartments, street corners, parlors) are less practical.
FKK clubs are reputedly run by motorcycle gangs, who already feel like law enforcement has placed targets on their backs. Why would law enforcement go after prostitution? Because profits from prostitution are re-invested into their other criminal ventures. If law enforcement can cut-off a third of a gang's money supply, they certainly will. FKK clubs don't want to give them them any excuse to shutdown, hence why they might ensure the WGs and mongers are all in compliance with the new laws.
I still advocate the reporting until we know better what the situation is. Reporting on whether a specific WG offers BBBJ seems to have already stopped altogether.
So I guess the ongoing debate is whether one should report that BBBJ is available at a specific club. But even that is more or less useless info. Because if names are not given, it is hard to piece together what percentage of the WGs at a certain club will offer it. Best to just make friends while physically in the club or exchange PMs.
Mongerer88
07-09-17, 15:46
By this logic prostitution in the US should have been wiped out with the advent of the web. Coverage on US prostitution boards is fairly complete. But it, in fact, has not wiped out prostitution. Prostitution boards have made it easier to find than ever, and have provided a degree of protection for both consumers and providers.The North American escort review and chat boards allow a guy to safely book an escort, usually with both incall and outcall options, and know exactly what services will be offered and what price he will pay, with no real concern about law enforcement issues as long as she is reviewed and preferably if she screens (to keep law enforcement away from her). In general, he is purchasing time and companionship, and she chooses to have consensual sex. It is a great system for most, although it is expensive by worldwide standards.
However, a compelling argument can be made that the Internet and those explicit details on the Internet contributed to the demise of the North American multiple-lady incall places with a published address, notably the San Francisco Asian massage parlors where at one time a person could simply walk into any of 50 or so such places and, after choosing from a line-up, get CFS (with some offering BBBJ and some offering CBJ). That city was a major destination for commercial sex as a result of the popularity and relatively low prices of those places. The city is still good, but the scene is now escort oriented, after virtually all the full service massage places with line-ups have been shut down. Just one example, but many message and review boards in North America now prohibit or actively discourage explicit details of an incall place with a published address, and / or prohibit the publishing of an address for places that only give the address to actual customers.
So I think that North American review boards do provide some things to think about regarding this. Personally, I think what was published on the internet pushed the media to make relatively more reporting of what occurred at the massage parlors and that snowballed into politicians forcing the police to make more closures. Just my opinion, though.
Delta Indigo
07-09-17, 16:07
I'm afraid he and others will not get it, no matter how simple you put it for them. I'm wondering how they were able to register here.
HB.Hi HB,
At first I thought you were being an enormous hypocrite. Because you yourself have posted on the Munich thread numerous times and even this year that you have never failed to get BBBJ in Bavarian clubs nor ever paid extra for it. You kept posting that the law in Bavaria has no effect there. In fact you even mentioned the club's names.
So by this measure posting does not affect services. However I thought of something and thought of a compromise through this dilemna. I think posts like, everything was normal or as expected is fine in general but not when describing a session with a girl. We should definitively not out girls who do it, like you and others have mentioned.
I think mentioning girls who do it is a mistake and I shall never do this. However mentioning girls who insist on CBJ is fine and I think we should do this in order to shame them and discourage their business.
I would find this acceptable as a strategy and I think it would work.
1. After a club report with sessions, you can say everything was great or as before without being explicit, some posters have done just this. If a club goes out of the way to ban it, then do mention that likewise like World and 2 other clubs I will never find out about.
2. Never specifically mention that a girl did BBBJ in a session report about just that girl, but in general about a club.
3. Explicitly out the girls who insist on CBJ, that would do the trick.
I don't agree about not sharing information or posting, but I don't think we should ever name girls who do it, but rather those that insist on not doing so.
Polyamorist
07-09-17, 16:15
It seems like everybody has a little polizei in his head post-July 1. So much fear and mutual distrust has been achieved in so little time.
This is about more than blowjobs but the free and open attitude to sex that the FKK concept brought to Germany. Old Bernd must be spinning in his grave.
What is worse than censorship is self-censorship. All this whispering reminds me of countries where prostitution is illegal. When sex is a crime, only criminals can enjoy it. And then women can only be attracted to "bad boys". Is this the future for Germany?
Not forgetting that in countries like East Germany, the guilt and whispering and looking-over-your-shoulderism went well beyond sex.
Member #4581
07-09-17, 16:15
And that's what makes the US top of every mongers destination list ;-)
I don't even see how you make this deduction.
Neuro said if writing publicly about an illegal activity should lead to that activity being shut down (as you folks claim about BBBJ), then prostitution in the US would have been shut down. Nowhere does he say that US is the top monger destination.
And you still have not explained how you plan to ensure this censorship from each and every monger -- Not just on this forum but every forum out there. It doesn't even have to be an electronic forum, even a single guy bragging can lead to a practice shut down, per the report posted here. In general, information can never be kept down, and if open information = activity dead, then we can already write its epitaph.
Member #4581
07-09-17, 16:26
So much fear and mutual distrust has been achieved in so little time.
This is about more than blowjobs but the free and open attitude to sex that the FKK concept brought to Germany.
What is worse than censorship is self-censorship. All this whispering reminds me of countries where prostitution is illegal. When sex is a crime, only criminals can enjoy it. And then women can only be attracted to "bad boys". Is this the future for Germany?
Not forgetting that in countries like East Germany, the guilt and whispering and looking-over-your-shoulderism went well beyond sex.Absolutely right. Well put.
The proponents of self censorship here (when they are not hurling gratuitous insults in a show of their intellectual macho) have suggested BBFS is the role model for BBBJ. On that basis, BBBJ already appears to be quite unappealing and dead. If one has to be constantly looking around with guilt and fear as you say, might as well skip it and just go with CBJ.
Shutting down a FKK club would be fairly simple. Shutting down underground, small, scattered independent operators (apartments, street corners, parlors) are less practical.
FKK clubs are reputedly run by motorcycle gangs, who already feel like law enforcement has placed targets on their backs. Why would law enforcement go after prostitution? Because profits from prostitution are re-invested into their other criminal ventures. If law enforcement can cut-off a third of a gang's money supply, they certainly will. FKK clubs don't want to give them them any excuse to shutdown, hence why they might ensure the WGs and mongers are all in compliance with the new laws.Well put. A point often missed.
Delta and Mongerer. Nice to know that we don't all have to go behind the barricades for one side or the other. Everybody has sensible points to make but very few seem willing to do anything but defend their own positions.
Other than BBBJ, are there any changes made by the law from the customer's point of view?
KC Questor
07-09-17, 18:48
However, a compelling argument can be made that the Internet and those explicit details on the Internet contributed to the demise of the North American multiple-lady incall places with a published address, notably the San Francisco Asian massage parlors where at one time a person could simply walk into any of 50 or so such places and, after choosing from a line-up, get CFS (with some offering BBBJ and some offering CBJ). That city was a major destination for commercial sex as a result of the popularity and relatively low prices of those places. The city is still good, but the scene is now escort oriented, after virtually all the full service massage places with line-ups have been shut down. Just one example, but many message and review boards in North America now prohibit or actively discourage explicit details of an incall place with a published address, and / or prohibit the publishing of an address for places that only give the address to actual customers.I haven't been to San Francisco in 15 years, so I don't know how that city has changed, but Dallas is still like that. There are a number of AMPS that you can walk in and pay $200 for an hour massage that includes a table shower, BBBJ, CFS (and some BBFS), with occasional analingus and anal sex. On the local board, guys regularly mention which ladies performed which sex acts, including which ones will go without a condom for vaginal or anal sex.
No one should ever think that law enforcement is fooled by people using code words, hiding behind "senior" or "premium" or "VIP" accounts, or masking ladies' names ("Saw and* last night. " If they want to shut a place down, they will.
PacificRim
07-09-17, 18:50
And that's what makes the US top of every mongers destination list ;-)
Honestly, I don't know enough about the US scene to compare but I believe Nevada is the only place that is in anyway comparable to the German scene. Girls work in legal clubs and condoms are mandatory for everything. Is it common for consumers to post reports saying that girls don't use condoms there? What are the consequences? Can clubs lose their licences?Comparing the Nevada scene to FKK is like comparing humans to dogs because they are both mammals. In other words, the comparison isn't apt in any sense that is important. The Nevada brothels that I've visited were expensive and boring. They give "sharks" an entirely new meaning. I haven't seen reviews of Nevada brothels on message boards, so I don't know what patrons report there. In general, however, reporting AO on a US review site will turn the reviewer into a pariah. It is highly frowned on even though many providers will do AO for a price.
Hessen Bub
07-09-17, 19:07
Bavaria was a different situation. It wasn't a law, it was a "Verordnung" (regulation or so).
A report could be the same like before. No need to change anything besides leaving out the BB feature if available. "She sucked my dick. Deep throat. And licked my balls. " all fine. As the law doesn't allow BBBJs we all assume it is a CBJ. This is how it is handled in most German boards.
HB.
ExpatLover
07-09-17, 19:14
Shutting down a FKK club would be fairly simple. Shutting down underground, small, scattered independent operators (apartments, street corners, parlors) are less practical.
FKK clubs are reputedly run by motorcycle gangs, who already feel like law enforcement has placed targets on their backs. Why would law enforcement go after prostitution? Because profits from prostitution are re-invested into their other criminal ventures. If law enforcement can cut-off a third of a gang's money supply, they certainly will. FKK clubs don't want to give them them any excuse to shutdown, hence why they might ensure the WGs and mongers are all in compliance with the new laws.In the new law it is also stated that to run a brothel, FKK club etc. You need not to be a member of any motorcycle gang for at least 10 years.
Other than BBBJ, are there any changes made by the law from the customer's point of view?Also bareback sex is prosecuted.
Many guys ask girls for fucking without condom. Turkish want everything for 30 € at night at Atlanta Hanau, some guys put 1000 € on the bed to make girl accept.
Law is to protect girls life and versus some guys behavior. Girls are still free to provide how they want from our behavior.
Neurosynth
07-09-17, 20:39
Ah yes. And that applies for all of the FKK clubs in the US?
HB.My point was that if posts on prostitution boards about illegal activities lead to those activities being shut down by the police, then you would expect that prostitution boards in the US would lead to those activities being shut down by the police.
That hasn't happened. If anything boards in the US have made everything easier and safer for all involved.
Your FKK reference is a red herring.
FKK clubs in the US were never shut down because of posts on bulletin boards. FKK clubs in the US never existed in the first place.
Hessen Bub
07-09-17, 20:56
FKK clubs in the US were never shut down because of posts on bulletin boards. FKK clubs in the US never existed in the first place.Exactly my point. Different P6 landscape. I'm not worried about the police shutting down a place. It's club management enforcing CBJ because they worry that their club might geht closed. In the us the scene is scattered, no clubs inbetween, freelancers and not big FKK clubs. There's an additional stakeholder here with the club management. That's why your reference to the situation in the US doesn't fit.
HB.
Nevada is terrible. Stay away too expensive and they use CBJ at all locations. Even independent girls it is customary. Seattle / Tacoma Washington it is customary for the BBBJ.
The key is to switch to independent providers. Since this new law, I think the club concept is outdated especially for clubs and apartments which insist on CBJ in Germany. Essentially the era of FKK is over and the way now is to disband all FKKs clubs and put the girls independent to allow them to keep offering BBBJ without repercussion. Germany seems to be too stuck in the FKK system which has served it well for decades but now it is time to move on to totally independent each girl advertising and providing in her own hotel room or apartment from now on. Each girl will live or die by her own reviews and reviews must be more organized with specific links, pics, and contact information of each girl.
Member #4581
07-09-17, 22:27
Reporting on whether a specific WG offers BBBJ seems to have already stopped altogether..There were some who did report, somewhat obliquely. In any case, it's just one week. Not many reports yet.
Zhou en Lai (apocryphally) is supposed to have said, when asked his opinion about French Revolution, "it is too early to say". We mongers don't operate on such long time frames, but then again, a day or a week is too short. If a couple of people post reports of BBBJ in the next week, does it mean all is back to normal?
I still think information has a way of becoming public, and self censorship will never work. We will just have to wait and see how this goes in six months, a year, and so on.
Mongerer88
07-10-17, 00:14
When you say Nevada, I presume you mean the legal brothels.
They are indeed terrible and represent likely less than 1 percent of the commercial sex transactions in the USA. So comparing the antiquated Nevada legal brothels to anything is not particularly useful. But that is probably an inevitable temptation for those who frequent the German FKKs that are legal. Doing this "illegally" is just not that complicated, which is why most of the USA appears to have long ago switched to the escort scene via the Internet.
The Las Vegas independent escorts are excellent and BBBJ is customary for the higher-end escorts, but the prices for the best ones are astronomical compared to Europe. The lower-priced casino girls mostly do CBJs and provide lousy service.
It is good to know that the Dallas massage parlor scene is alive and well, based on the reply from KC Questor, unlike the once famous San Francisco massage parlor scene. I have never really liked massage parlors since the ladies are expert at making it one pop, no matter what time period you buy, unlike escorts who usually try for two in an hour.
But what I was trying to convey is that it is not just the police to consider, at least when you study the North America scene and Internet postings. It is very often the media that seems to read what is posted on message boards and then print and television pieces occur about possible illegal activities at a known place. Then the police move into shut those places down. If you study the Tampa area massage parlors via reading Jackson's sister site in the USA, that is what appears to have happened in recent shutdowns. That works best when a reporter can stand in front of a known location with a "massage" sign. It doesn't work when the postings are of an anonymous escort, even if she does incall.
Many North American boards, especially in Canada, and a few in the USA, are proactive about how this, and they ban the discussion of explicit details for places with a published address, and ban any posting of actual addresses for private incall places.
Nevada is terrible. Stay away too expensive and they use CBJ at all locations. Even independent girls it is customary. Seattle / Tacoma Washington it is customary for the BBBJ.
The key is to switch to independent providers. Since this new law, I think the club concept is outdated especially for clubs and apartments which insist on CBJ in Germany. Essentially the era of FKK is over and the way now is to disband all FKKs clubs and put the girls independent to allow them to keep offering BBBJ without repercussion. Germany seems to be too stuck in the FKK system which has served it well for decades but now it is time to move on to totally independent each girl advertising and providing in her own hotel room or apartment from now on. Each girl will live or die by her own reviews and reviews must be more organized with specific links, pics, and contact information of each girl.
Come on guys. Usa is not the center of the world. It is a tiny country to the left of us without FKK's. So no reason to read up on it anyway.
TankTank123
07-10-17, 02:14
Dude you need to open your own forum LOL.He does have his own forum! That is why he has a wealth of information.
I used to frequent Inez's in Elko, Nevada which has a bunch of brothels and some do BBBJs. It's been many years since I visited but Inez's the&the used to be all Asian and had fixed prices ($200 for 40 minutes which includes table shower and sex) but that was years ago before I found that Germany is cheaper and better (when you do enough girls that is). I'm sure things have changed a bit since then but I did enjoy that part of Nevada back then!
Member #4585
07-10-17, 02:35
He does have his own forum! That is why he has a wealth of information.Does not mean it is right especially when acting childishly calling other members names. Not very adult like and not the characteristics one would expect of a moderator.
Member #4585
07-10-17, 02:54
Reporting on whether a specific WG offers BBBJ seems to have already stopped altogether.
So I guess the ongoing debate is whether one should report that BBBJ is available at a specific club. But even that is more or less useless info. Because if names are not given, it is hard to piece together what percentage of the WGs at a certain club will offer it. Best to just make friends while physically in the club or exchange PMs.McAdonis, I suggest you go back and re-read the posts of the last 9 days where one will find several reports stating that BBBJ is available and in some cases by whom.
On the contrary, knowing that a club has some girls offering BBBJ is useful information that some do not seem to get or are too closed minded and become frustrated to point of calling others derogatory names to make them feel better.
Does not mean it is right especially when acting childishly calling other members names. Not very adult like and not the characteristics one would expect of a moderator.Normally I would agree. But in this incident it is very much called for.
Banana Boi
07-10-17, 04:03
Nevada is terrible. Stay away too expensive and they use CBJ at all locations.Not true. Taken home some girls from sapphire and spearmint rhino strip clubs for cheaper all night rates than I would get in Germany and BBBJ and DFK were a given. My dancers would also blow away any girl I saw on my last FKK trip too.
In the USA generally it is a misdemeanor for individual prostitution transactions between an provider and hobbyist. Whereas if an organized criminal enterprise occurs it would be a felony. Such examples would be a location which provides rooms, a driver who drives a provider to her appointments, a traditional pimp, someone who rents a hotel room in his name for the provider, etc. The criminal enterprises / houses of prostitution / encouraging prostitution laws need to have probable cause in order to have a case filed against. This is typically done by contacting the customers leaving and getting them to describe the services and price paid which is then used to prosecute the members of the criminal enterprise. Or an undercover agent could go in to apply for a job and get damaging admissions from the job interview. Or an undercover agent could go in and make a prostitution transaction deal and then leave before finishing the deal. For the misdemeanor prostitution stings typically a hotel room is rented and recorded video and audio where a sex for money prostitution deal is made and / or over the phone and texts and after the arrival the hobbyist is arrested.
So it would appear that nobody in Germany is used to prosecutions and therefore not familiar with screening and proper security measures such as making sure the person you are dealing with does not have a hidden microphone, etc. A place can't be shut down just by police "moving in". They would have to get probable cause a crime occurred which they would have to do in an undercover capacity and they would not want to alert the prostitution enterprise that it is being investigated because it would make them safer about what they say which is illegal.
Then what the end result of this CBJ law is for Germany is going to be that pimps from various places can now traffic providers into Germany and rent a hotel room and probable get minimum of 100 euros for BBBJ with finish in mouth. The prior rate was 75 euros for this but now that it is illegal they can probably get more money. However to provide this higher level of service they would need to continuously change hotel rooms every couple nights and post an ad on probably sexdo or some other internet site such as backpage. Then they would do a "law enforcement check" pat down to make sure the customer was not a member of law enforcement which carries hidden microphones and as well stings could be done against hobbyists vice versa. Everyone would have to meet in hotels or pick up on the street corners and check each other prior to the transaction occurring.
When you say Nevada, I presume you mean the legal brothels.
They are indeed terrible and represent likely less than 1 percent of the commercial sex transactions in the USA. So comparing the antiquated Nevada legal brothels to anything is not particularly useful. But that is probably an inevitable temptation for those who frequent the German FKKs that are legal. Doing this "illegally" is just not that complicated, which is why most of the USA appears to have long ago switched to the escort scene via the Internet.
The Las Vegas independent escorts are excellent and BBBJ is customary for the higher-end escorts, but the prices for the best ones are astronomical compared to Europe. The lower-priced casino girls mostly do CBJs and provide lousy service.
It is good to know that the Dallas massage parlor scene is alive and well, based on the reply from KC Questor, unlike the once famous San Francisco massage parlor scene. I have never really liked massage parlors since the ladies are expert at making it one pop, no matter what time period you buy, unlike escorts who usually try for two in an hour..
Many girls from most of the clubs can't read english, that goes both for german and east European girls, this you already should know as an FKK monger. When you say "the girls" surely your not meaning them all, but yes there might be girls out of 1000 girls Can read here.
Flamers are ignored, keep the tone and ill reply.Many Sharks girls read this forum, some at LR or GT also read and can tell me all what I write. I even write for some or because I know they will be repeated.
Yes, some girls keep on providing like before, but some, even among top performers, are afraid about new law, because they don t really understand risks for them and they don t want to lose their money business. They couldn't make such money in Romania with minimum salary 250 or deep Hungary with minimum salary 200.
BBBJ and bareback sex are prosecuted for guys asking or putting pressure on girls, but girls behave from our behavior. Most ask me what I like and they just want to give pleasure to make You repeat, when less and less clients.
Vip GT even with pizzas back at 10.30 pm, was quite empty at 10 pm on Saturday evening. No wait for room at 6/7 pm on Saturday, same at 7 pm on Sunday. Even didn't visit, but was said LR was not crowded on Saturday.
He does have his own forum! That is why he has a wealth of information.Are you sure he is really forum owner? Or just working for? Better to be sure about what we say, so many bullshit and lies in this bad World.
But I agree with him, for this point, not to name girls providing, each one own game to experience good time with girls. Fair, not to make problems to girls about law, when many are afraid.
Nevada is terrible. Stay away too expensive and they use CBJ at all locations. Even independent girls it is customary. Seattle / Tacoma Washington it is customary for the BBBJ.
The key is to switch to independent providers. Since this new law, I think the club concept is outdated especially for clubs and apartments which insist on CBJ in Germany. Essentially the era of FKK is over and the way now is to disband all FKKs clubs and put the girls independent to allow them to keep offering BBBJ without repercussion. Germany seems to be too stuck in the FKK system which has served it well for decades but now it is time to move on to totally independent each girl advertising and providing in her own hotel room or apartment from now on. Each girl will live or die by her own reviews and reviews must be more organized with specific links, pics, and contact information of each girl.Many girls in FKK will already meet you outside the club after building up some trust, this is a fact, and for sure if they scared of BBBJ because of club rules they will do it in privacy outside.
Members getting personal, who you? Ill refer to post 11243. Logic in your pov, but not in our pov, and therefor your questiong intellience and having childish tone. Can you post a disagreement with a respective tone, is it possible without sarcasm and names?Perhaps you could lead by example?
Perhaps you could lead by example?Be glad too, But some people just want the answer in the same way.
Member #4581
07-10-17, 12:53
Normally I would agree. But in this incident it is very much called for.So Pistons, you think that insulting and childish language are normally not required, but called for when you disagree with the other opinion?
Good to know.
I'm jealous of all you guys who live in Germany!! It's heaven in Germany. I'll be back next year!
I'm jealous of all you guys who live in Germany!! It's heaven in Germany. I'll be back next year!You can always move to Germany find work there or seek asylum, haha.
I don't want to unless I become a multi-millionaire bc living in Germany is going to cost me alot of money and I might not be able to concentrate on work, LOL.
Was thinking about asylum but no go now with the CBJ law. Need a country which promotes the BBBJ instead.
You can always move to Germany find work there or seek asylum, haha.
I don't want to unless I become a multi-millionaire bc living in Germany is going to cost me alot of money and I might not be able to concentrate on work, LOL.
Many Sharks girls read this forum, some at LR or GT also read and can tell me all what I write. I even write for some or because I know they will be repeated.
Yes, some girls keep on providing like before, but some, even among top performers, are afraid about new law, because they don t really understand risks for them and they don t want to lose their money business. They couldn't make such money in Romania with minimum salary 250 or deep Hungary with minimum salary 200.
BBBJ and bareback sex are prosecuted for guys asking or putting pressure on girls, but girls behave from our behavior. Most ask me what I like and they just want to give pleasure to make You repeat, when less and less clients.About PM, I agree with German new law to protect girls versus some guys pressure for bareback sex, or not correct clubs renting girls rooms where they are fucked. At least, if I criticize Sharks, they don't make girls sleep where they are fucked.
When I dare to say to a busy superstar, if I have to take a waiting ticket for her, I don't desire her and she doesn't like I prefer then to go with other girls instead, or when I write to answer my best ever FKK girl how she can think I still want to touch her when I see her new way for business and she keeps on sending why I don't come anymore, I always thought WGs are like women in real life, you get the best when not forcing them. When you take care of them, when they see a woman, not only a piece of meat, in your eyes, they seems happy to please you back, asking what would you like? So really not so complicated to get girls want to give you pleasure, without more money to make pressure than club rate, no tip, no upselling, even for some first rooms, not only regular rooms when girl comes to you when she see you.
Communication help, when many girls seem afraid about law risks for them.
GT or LR put information about new law, point 32 , on rooms doors, I wonder if Atmos still write +20 for BBBJ on rooms doors?
A guy and a woman for a win-win business.
So far as I can see, the discussion about what it is ethical or pragmatic to report is becoming academic.
Judging by reports on this forum BBBJ is rapidly disappearing.
So far as I can see, the discussion about what it is ethical or pragmatic to report is becoming academic.
Judging by reports on this forum BBBJ is rapidly disappearing.Really disappearing or just being clever enough to protect girls?
But BBBJ is not anymore standard service, according to the law. Can be a WG present if she likes you.
It's going to kill more than that. This July 1 law is terrible timing for Germany. Right now many wealthy London businesses have to move their headquarters due to Brexit. Natural choices would be Frankfurt or Zurich. And the German government chooses this moment to attack the FKK system?This is a completely distorted view of reality. Among normal workers, the fraction who frequent FKK clubs is negligible; one probably wouldn't even see an effect. As for "wealthy businessmen", they are not at Dietzenbach.
Given some of the fury of some members here over immigration to Germany. It may be better to not encourage or advocate more immigrants to come Germany given the backlash that rose and was discussed on these FKK threads. Firms in other countries thinking of sending immigrants need to consider this backlash.Anti-immigrant sentiment tends to get more publicity in Germany, but, despite the large number of refugees (which is the main target of anti-immigrant voices, not bankers), the situation is better here than in most neighbouring countries. Which country in Europe has no right-wing party in the national parliament?
FKK clubs are reputedly run by motorcycle gangs, Not all. Maybe some. What fraction? What evidence do you have?
Other than BBBJ, are there any changes made by the law from the customer's point of view?Yes, there are other changes.
Not all. Maybe some. What fraction? What evidence do you have?I didn't use the word "all". I also used the word "reputedly". Maybe associations is a better word.
McAdonis, I suggest you go back and re-read the posts of the last 9 days where one will find several reports stating that BBBJ is available and in some cases by whom.
I will just take your word for it. When I wrote the above statement, I believe Jnpr30 corrected me as well. He used the word "obliquely", which to me means the same as inferring. I am still not clear on which clubs have a BBBJ blanket ban. World is one of them. Dietzenbach is not one of them.
Member #4585
07-10-17, 21:48
I will just take your word for it. When I wrote the above statement, I believe Jnpr30 corrected me as well. He used the word "obliquely", which to me means the same as inferring. I am still not clear on which clubs have a BBBJ blanket ban. World is one of them. Dietzenbach is not one of them.Exactly!!
If we allow the censors to win then you will never know the answer to that question you just asked.
A return to the dark ages and not the age of reason.
I will just take your word for it. When I wrote the above statement, I believe Jnpr30 corrected me as well. He used the word "obliquely", which to me means the same as inferring. I am still not clear on which clubs have a BBBJ blanket ban. World is one of them. Dietzenbach is not one of them.Some of the posts Bitumen is probably referring to seems to be delayed reports from late June. Posted now in July.
Exactly!!
If we allow the censors to win then you will never know the answer to that question you just asked.
There was no question mark, so I wasn't really asking a question. Rather it was more a commentary on how useless this board can be (or how bad my reading comprehension is). Not pointing fingers or complaining--just accepting reality. This board is about 95% entertainment, 5% FKK info for me. I won't speak for others.
I am sure if I PM'ed a few people or asked around, people would tell me the answer to that question. But I haven't felt the need to do that. I can't explain why. It could be I just prefer to have closure myself.
I suspect you could probably guess which three clubs HB refers to. If I am not mistaken you reported (or hinted at) being in Sharks post-July 1st. Also, you make references to your friends regularly, so we all know you have an information network.
Member #4581
07-11-17, 00:47
This board is about 95% entertainment, 5% FKK info for me. I won't speak for others.
It's mainly a social network for me. After a couple of club visits, most people have an idea about these places and hardly need much new info. Girls' lists are useful to see if a girl I like is still around. We all have blogs and chat boards to mouth off on various topics like politics, sports, finance, etc and ISG fills a need to do so on this aspect of life. And keeps up the anticipation during dry spells, for the next visit.
So this board is a wealth of information, and I am trying to read it all, but I do have one question for you experienced FKK visitors. I'll be spending a few days in Berlin, and then heading to the NWR & Hessen area. My flight is out of Frankfurt and I'm sure I could spend my whole time there. But I know I want to visit Koln and the NWR places as well. I'll have about 5 days and will probably have a car. I'd love some advice. This will be my first time at FKKs, although I am an experienced traveler.
Is it better to stay a couple days in NWR and then a couple of days in Frankfurt? Or should I stick to one home base and just take day trips? It looks like Koblenz is centrally located. Would that be a good place to stay? I looked all over this site for hotel recommendations bat am not finding anything. Does anyone have suggestions for a good cheap centrally-located hotel that is convenient for visiting FKKs (and maybe some regular sight-seeing)? PMs are welcome as well.
Hear is my opinion if it is not too late for your planning.
I would stick with one area if this is once in a while trip for you. Average monger can only do about 3 girls a day and the clubs in both areas (NRW and Frankfurt) provide enough choice for you to have your daily quota. Also you don't waste time commuting between these 2 areas. I would choose Frankfurt, it has many of large clubs with large lineups. You can easily visit Hessian big 5 clubs in 5 days or rotate between Oase and Sharks if you want to stick with top 2. I suggest checking out world as you going to have car.
I would consider including NRW (may stay for 2 nights) if you plan to visit Germany in near future and would like to checkout as many clubs as you can so that you can plan your next trip to the area with your favorite clubs. Another good reason to pick NRW would be the half price extras compared to Frankfurt. I have stayed in once in Cologne, few times in Dusseldorf and many times in Monchengladbach. I prefer Monchengladbach because it is the closest town to the clubs I usually visit (LR, GT and clubs across the border). ACA and Samya are about 1 hour drive away. Clubs in NRW are so spread out, no matter were you stay you will have to drive an hour or more to reach some clubs. One thing to keep in mind is that most of the NRW clubs are small with relatively small lineups, so there is a high risk of lineup disappointments. Monchengladback hotels are cheaper than one one in DUS and most of the hotels provide free parking. Hotels with A / see will cost bit more than the ones without. You should be able to get a decent hotel for 50-60 E / day.
KC Questor
07-11-17, 03:29
Hear is my opinion if it is not too late for your planning.Thank you very much for your response. I finished my planning today. I needed to include Berlin, as the last time I was in Germany it still was not easy to travel there (something about a big wall? So I have three days in Berlin, followed by four days in Frankfurt. I do not think I will have the time to visit NWR, although I may take a day trip. It will depend on the reports over the next 8 weeks. If it is worthwhile to go to Cologne or Bonn, I will drive up there.
You can easily visit Hessian big 5 clubs in 5 days or rotate between Oase and Sharks if you want to stick with top 2. I suggest checking out world as you going to have car.That's my plan. World, Oase, Palace, Mainhatten, Dietzenbach, Sharks. Maybe Finca Erotica. It all depends on what reports look like.
I would consider including NRW (may stay for 2 nights) if you plan to visit Germany in near future and would like to checkout as many clubs as you can so that you can plan your next trip to the area with your favorite clubs. Another good reason to pick NRW would be the half price extras compared to Frankfurt. I have stayed in once in Cologne, few times in Dusseldorf and many times in Monchengladbach. I prefer Monchengladbach because it is the closest town to the clubs I usually visit (LR, GT and clubs across the border). ACA and Samya are about 1 hour drive away. Clubs in NRW are so spread out, no matter were you stay you will have to drive an hour or more to reach some clubs. One thing to keep in mind is that most of the NRW clubs are small with relatively small lineups, so there is a high risk of lineup disappointments. Monchengladback hotels are cheaper than one one in DUS and most of the hotels provide free parking. Hotels with A / see will cost bit more than the ones without. You should be able to get a decent hotel for 50-60 E / day.I just don't think that I'll have time to visit many NWR clubs given my limited itinerary. I hope this won't be a once-in-a-lifetime visit, but I won't be visiting again in the near future. If I could spend 4-7 days in NWR I would, both because the clubs are cheaper there and historically there has been more options for AO there. We'll see how that changes. For this trip I will prefer the larger clubs with more amenities and lineups. Hotels in Frankfurt are more expensive -- apparently there is a car show the week I am there, and Oktoberfest starts that week too, so the hotels are much pricier than I was expecting. I found some good deals though, and am happy with this itinerary. I'll be sure to report how it goes, and I'll post in the Trip Announcements thread a few weeks before the trip.
Thanks again for the advice.
Member #4585
07-11-17, 04:00
Some of the posts Bitumen is probably referring to seems to be delayed reports from late June. Posted now in July.Nope. Wrong post. Referencing post July visit report which started from 1 July.
TankTank123
07-11-17, 05:45
Average monger can only do about 3 girls a day Didn't you very recently put up a report that you sessioned with more than 10 girls in a day (I can't remember which club though). And don't forget that Yamayama can do more than 7 girls in a day for many many days in a row, and impart to the girls the pleasure of countless silentOs and normalOs (and also a screamingO on Betty). Luckily, the new law has been designed such that tongues need not be sheathed with a condom so that the girls can continue to have such pleasure from him.
OK well what would happen in Germany if someone is prosecuted and convicted under the new law and they don't pay their fine? I would think they are not equipped there to put everyone in jail and they would have to have a massive increase in prisons in order to hold all the new offenders. Also does each defendant get an attorney and interpreter appointed for them? Maybe everyone should call the German governments bluff and defy the law to prove that they are not able to prosecute and collect money from anyone even if they are convicted.
Didn't you very recently put up a report that you sessioned with more than 10 girls in a day (I can't remember which club though). And don't forget that Yamayama can do more than 7 girls in a day for many many days in a row, and impart to the girls the pleasure of countless silentOs and normalOs (and also a screamingO on Betty). Luckily, the new law has been designed such that tongues need not be sheathed with a condom so that the girls can continue to have such pleasure from him.I once met a Swedish guy at Artemis who did 14 in a day. Guy was just 23 yo. Still crazy tho.
Hessen Bub
07-11-17, 08:13
There was no question mark, so I wasn't really asking a question. Rather it was more a commentary on how useless this board can be (or how bad my reading comprehension is). Not pointing fingers or complaining--just accepting reality. This board is about 95% entertainment, 5% FKK info for me. I won't speak for others.Not sure in the percentage of information is really that high.
HB.
Citizen Kane
07-11-17, 17:26
OK well what would happen in Germany if someone is prosecuted and convicted under the new law and they don't pay their fine? I would think they are not equipped there to put everyone in jail and they would have to have a massive increase in prisons in order to hold all the new offenders. Also does each defendant get an attorney and interpreter appointed for them? Maybe everyone should call the German governments bluff and defy the law to prove that they are not able to prosecute and collect money from anyone even if they are convicted.And maybe they will run out of Latex for all the extra condoms that will be required. The government really hasn't thought this through...
OK well what would happen in Germany if someone is prosecuted and convicted under the new law and they don't pay their fine? I would think they are not equipped there to put everyone in jail and they would have to have a massive increase in prisons in order to hold all the new offenders. Also does each defendant get an attorney and interpreter appointed for them? Maybe everyone should call the German governments bluff and defy the law to prove that they are not able to prosecute and collect money from anyone even if they are convicted.Another example of the loss of touch with reality, massively exaggerating the number of punters. Compare it to, say, speeding tickets. How many are collected each year? And if you don't pay, the machinery is in place to make you pay.
I once met a Swedish guy at Artemis who did 14 in a day. Guy was just 23 yo. Still crazy tho.My record is 13 (orgasms / sessions; more than 13 girls since, though I did have some more than once, they usually worked in teams) during my first visit to Dorsten in 2006. Those were the days!
ExpatLover
07-11-17, 20:51
My record is 13 (orgasms / sessions; more than 13 girls since, though I did have some more than once, they usually worked in teams) during my first visit to Dorsten in 2006. Those were the days!Congratulations but sorry what can be the interest of doing this sex marathon?
MarquisdeSade1
07-11-17, 20:58
Not sure in the percentage of information is really that high.
HB.Hb you've mispelled misinformation.
For people who don't live in the EU there is no mechanism to make you pay speeding tickets. They can't suspend your drivers license in another country outside the EU. Similarly there would be no method to enforce the fine if any unless they prevent the defendant from leaving and even if they prevent him from leaving they will then have to allow him to work in Germany to earn money to pay the fine if he doesn't have any savings. So essentially the CBJ law is not enforceable for auslanders.
Another example of the loss of touch with reality, massively exaggerating the number of punters. Compare it to, say, speeding tickets. How many are collected each year? And if you don't pay, the machinery is in place to make you pay.
Didn't you very recently put up a report that you sessioned with more than 10 girls in a day (I can't remember which club though). And don't forget that Yamayama can do more than 7 girls in a day for many many days in a row, and impart to the girls the pleasure of countless silentOs and normalOs (and also a screamingO on Betty). Luckily, the new law has been designed such that tongues need not be sheathed with a condom so that the girls can continue to have such pleasure from him.Maybe I should have been a bit clear about what 'average' meant. I was actually referring to statistical average, not a specific individual. I am sorry if you have a friend named Average who could do lot more girls than the statistical average I referred to. That would confuse me too 😃.
Based on my observation the average age of men that visit these clubs is close to 50. Yes, there would be some guys younger than 50 and some guys older. Younger studs session more than 3 times where as older guys sessions less. I usually see much more older guys than young studs. Based on that I guesstimated the average to be 3. If generous it could be bumped up to 4, that is it. I highly doubt average is more than 4. I can't imaging 50 yo cumming more than 3 (or 4) times a day. Yes, you could take pills to get it up but being able to cum every time is a different thing.
About the 10 girls thing. I did it as an experiment, all the sessions were at GT except one which was at LR. Like most of the punters my objective always been to cum during every session. That limited the number of girls I could see during a day. That is not a problem during average lineup days but on a strong lineup days with lots of hot girls, the number of girls I could session with is what my physical ability allows. So I just wanted to see if I could do more sessions and still enjoy by not focusing on cumming during each one of them. I did 11 girls, 8 sessions (3 sessions were MFF), 5 cums and it was one of the very satisfying days in a club.
UltraHappy
07-12-17, 03:19
For people who don't live in the EU there is no mechanism to make you pay speeding tickets. They can't suspend your drivers license in another country outside the EU. Similarly there would be no method to enforce the fine if any unless they prevent the defendant from leaving and even if they prevent him from leaving they will then have to allow him to work in Germany to earn money to pay the fine if he doesn't have any savings. So essentially the CBJ law is not enforceable for auslanders.So, can I just start robbing stores and looting and pillaging all I want in Germany if I am a foreigner? If not, how does the enforcement for those crimes differ from Germany's ability to enforce the Kondompflicht Gesetz? Are you claiming that Germany can't jail me for unpaid fines?
I'm not familiar with Germany's criminal system, so I'm just asking.
For people who don't live in the EU there is no mechanism to make you pay speeding tickets.Not true. Owner of the vehicle receives those tickets. If it is a rental then rental agency charges your credit card. Rental agreements usually have a clause that makes you responsible for paying for speeding tickets and other such things.
OK well what would happen in Germany if someone is prosecuted and convicted under the new law and they don't pay their fine? I would think they are not equipped there to put everyone in jail and they would have to have a massive increase in prisons in order to hold all the new offenders. Also does each defendant get an attorney and interpreter appointed for them? Maybe everyone should call the German governments bluff and defy the law to prove that they are not able to prosecute and collect money from anyone even if they are convicted.What do you think they are checking when they scan your passport at immigration?
UltraHappy
07-12-17, 04:07
Not true. Owner of the vehicle receives those tickets. If it is a rental then rental agency charges your credit card. Rental agreements usually have a clause that makes you responsible for paying for speeding tickets and other such things.I get plenty of speeding tickets.
My rental car company receives the citation and then fills out a form that states that Ultrahappy was actually driving the car. They charge me an administrative fee of $25 for this so-called service per my rental contract. Then, with this form, the city knows who the responsible party is and can pursue me directly for the fine. In all of the tickets that I've been tagged with in all the years I've been frequently visiting Germany, none of the issuing cities ever followed up with me to collect the fine, except the city of Darmstadt who directly mailed me the ticket, requesting that I pay them 10 Euros, which I promptly paid. All of the other cities dropped it and never mailed me the speeding ticket directly on account of me being an Auslander.
So, in almost all cases, you can speed with impunity if you are an Auslander (well, except for that nasty "administrative fee" your rental car company will charge you and except if you are passing through Darmstadt, although I am sure none of us would have a good reason for passing through that city, hehe).
I have no idea what would have happened if I had not paid Darmstadt their 10 Euros, but I didn't want to find out. If anyone knows for sure, please share. It would be nice to know. I can't imagine that the Germans would have no recourse in this sort of situation.
BadinSweet
07-12-17, 04:21
I have seen someone got stopped at custom in FRA. He had to go to some separate window to pay some fine before he could get in.
I have also received a few 25 E processing fee from rental car company for speeding tickets, with one from Darmstadt, and a few parking violations. I have never received any mail from the city.
I get plenty of speeding tickets.
My rental car company receives the citation and then fills out a form that states that Ultrahappy was actually driving the car. They charge me an administrative fee of $25 for this so-called service per my rental contract. Then, with this form, the city knows who the responsible party is and can pursue me directly for the fine. In all of the tickets that I've been tagged with in all the years I've been frequently visiting Germany, none of the issuing cities ever followed up with me to collect the fine, except the city of Darmstadt who directly mailed me the ticket, requesting that I pay them 10 Euros, which I promptly paid. All of the other cities dropped it and never mailed me the speeding ticket directly on account of me being an Auslander.I guess I was wrong assuming the charge on my credit card was for paying speeding ticket. I didn't realize it was administrative fee. Thanks for making it clear.
I get plenty of speeding tickets.
My rental car company receives the citation and then fills out a form that states that Ultrahappy was actually driving the car. They charge me an administrative fee of $25 for this so-called service per my rental contract. Then, with this form, the city knows who the responsible party is and can pursue me directly for the fine. In all of the tickets that I've been tagged with in all the years I've been frequently visiting Germany, none of the issuing cities ever followed up with me to collect the fine, except the city of Darmstadt who directly mailed me the ticket, requesting that I pay them 10 Euros, which I promptly paid. All of the other cities dropped it and never mailed me the speeding ticket directly on account of me being an Auslander.
So, in almost all cases, you can speed with impunity if you are an Auslander (well, except for that nasty "administrative fee" your rental car company will charge you and except if you are passing through Darmstadt, although I am sure none of us would have a good reason for passing through that city, hehe).
I have no idea what would have happened if I had not paid Darmstadt their 10 Euros, but I didn't want to find out. If anyone knows for sure, please share. It would be nice to know. I can't imagine that the Germans would have no recourse in this sort of situation.You were lucky then. I've had 2 x speeding tickets and I got both mailed to me from the cities (Cologne and Jena).
My record is 13 (orgasms / sessions; more than 13 girls since, though I did have some more than once, they usually worked in teams) during my first visit to Dorsten in 2006. Those were the days!Do you guys have any tricks for this? My average is two and wish it was higher. I know this is a function of testosterone / dopamine / prolactin and I am aware that things like Vitamin E or Cabergoline / Dostinex (never tried it) would suppress prolactin levels and improve refraction times but I am curious if anyone has better ideas. TIA.
Probably for felonies they would take action and jail people. But for traffic offenses the main method of enforcement is license suspension which they can't do outside of the EU. I don't think they can jail people for non payment of fines because it would violate some EU right against debtors prisons. Germany has way less people in jail than the USA so they just are not equipped for mass incarceration.
So, can I just start robbing stores and looting and pillaging all I want in Germany if I am a foreigner? If not, how does the enforcement for those crimes differ from Germany's ability to enforce the Kondompflicht Gesetz? Are you claiming that Germany can't jail me for unpaid fines?
I'm not familiar with Germany's criminal system, so I'm just asking.
For people who don't live in the EU there is no mechanism to make you pay speeding tickets. They can't suspend your drivers license in another country outside the EU. Similarly there would be no method to enforce the fine if any unless they prevent the defendant from leaving and even if they prevent him from leaving they will then have to allow him to work in Germany to earn money to pay the fine if he doesn't have any savings. So essentially the CBJ law is not enforceable for auslanders.Bullshit. If you are non-EU citizen, then after committing a crime you will be refused entry. End of story.
ExpatLover
07-12-17, 19:58
Bullshit. If you are non-EU citizen, then after committing a crime you will be refused entry. End of story.Fully online with you, one of my friend was not paying his fines and he got a German court judgement notifying him a sentence that he was forbidden for him to drive in Germany for 1 year.
MythoVirus
07-12-17, 20:20
Do you guys have any tricks for this? My average is two and wish it was higher. I know this is a function of testosterone / dopamine / prolactin and I am aware that things like Vitamin E or Cabergoline / Dostinex (never tried it) would suppress prolactin levels and improve refraction times but I am curious if anyone has better ideas. TIA.Hmm it depends on multiple factors, including your age, physical stamina, your natural hormonal levels, your genetics, your mental health, your stress level, sleep pattern, your diet, medications you are taking, co-morbidity, when is the last time you touched a lady / or masturbated, alcohol and nicotine intake, the ladies you are with, are you getting your fantasies / fetishes. And the list can go forever. I'm no expert but to me, I think changing it is kinda difficult and requires tremendous time, rule of thumb just lead a healthy life.
What I can recommend though, is what I always do, don't cum in all the sessions, cumming is great but overrated in my opinion, specially if you are doing a sex trip that lasts 3 days and more.
For example if you are doing 3 straight days FKK clubs without rest, you can easily take 5-10 WG each day, but if you cum in all the sessions then for 3 days you need to cum 15-30 times which is ridicules. However if you don't come in all your sessions then you can easily do 5-10 sessions / day, what I do is, I cum the first session to remove the stress so I can think clearly, then I don't cum in any of the next sessions, unless it was a perfect or near-perfect session, and of course the last session I cum so I can sleep like a neonate. So in average if I do 7 sessions I usually cum 3-4 times only which is more practical, and other sessions that I didn't come wasn't a waste because I did still get to enjoy a beautiful babe.
That's great. Once the BBBJ ban is struck down or repealed I'm flying to Turkey and then taking a raft to the island of Lesbos to to get in the Shengen zone.
Bullshit. If you are non-EU citizen, then after committing a crime you will be refused entry. End of story.
Neurosynth
07-13-17, 11:58
All of this talk about dealing with fines or whatnot due to breaking the BB-ban law. But I've yet to hear a plausible scenario as to how a guy who only actually practices BB-stuff in the room with the girl will be arrested.
The operators won't report on you to the cops. It will be another tick against their tally, and they don't want to be known as a place to keep an eye on. But even if they did they didn't actually see it. Nobody is going to get prosecuted on hearsay. At worst the operators will toss you from the FKK. And if you're not getting the service you want how big of a penalty is that?
The vast majority of the girls won't call the cops in either for the same kinds of reasons. They don't want trouble. And even if they did you could just deny it and you are in the realm of he-said-she-said in a situation where there is more than likely second languages involved.
And the notion that the cops are going to come bursting through the doors into your room and do a condom check is just nonsense. It's probably not legal, the operators would scream bloody murder that their business is being undermined, and we've yet to hear of a single incidence of this happening. (Some have claimed they heard from a friend of a friend that it's happened in Bavaria where BB has already been banned. I've seen no first person accounts or news accounts or otherwise reliable reports.).
So this leaves the most far fetched scenario of all. Female police will be running nude through the FKK trying to entrap guys. Yeah, right.
This is an unenforcible law. The only way it will work is if people have irrational fears. Posting probably won't have a big impact either way, but talking openly about it is the way these irrational fears can be dampened, and BB-services normalized.
Hessen Bub
07-13-17, 12:24
So this leaves the most far fetched scenario of all. Female police will be running nude through the FKK trying to entrap guys. Yeah, right.
This is an unenforcible law. The only way it will work is if people have irrational fears. Posting probably won't have a big impact either way, but talking openly about it is the way these irrational fears can be dampened, and BB-services normalized.I'm all with you. The issue is that pressure from club management on the girls could lead to CBJ only. Because club management fear to get in trouble with the authorities.
HB.
Member #4581
07-13-17, 12:38
I wouldn't have minded role playing cop monger with squeeboz Carla, with her starting out in a cute police uniform, and squeezing me to a loud finish as my punishment.
ExpatLover
07-13-17, 14:22
I'm all with you. The issue is that pressure from club management on the girls could lead to CBJ only. Because club management fear to get in trouble with the authorities.
HB.This is exactly what is already starting to happen in some clubs.
MythoVirus
07-13-17, 16:30
I'm all with you. The issue is that pressure from club management on the girls could lead to CBJ only. Because club management fear to get in trouble with the authorities.
HB.I agree with that.
It's not the police to fear, any less you are [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) a WG against her own will, adversiting AO / BBBJ, or public gang AO, otherwise the police and law will never intervene.
As they said the worst it can get is you getting thrown out of the club, that's it. If clubs would inform the police for any mongers asking for that service then they are committing suicide as they will lose many customers, same with WG they will not do anything higher than informing the club managements (which will be so rare).
What I fear isn't the law itself or the police, what I fear is as follows:
1) Clubs seriously force girls for covered service out of fear.
2) WG using the law as an excuse to upsell or demand longer sessions.
3) WGs that hate doing BBBJ will stop doing it (and this is the only acceptable and fair reason).
4) Lack of public display of uncovered blowjob (as some mongers like myself love to do it anywhere everywhere not caring about who's watching).
5) You need to ask for it everytime prior to your session, which is lame and mood killing, compared to Pre-July which you never had to ask and you knew you will get it +99%.
6) Inside the room if the WG is a total *****, the uncovered service can be shorter in duration even if promised for longer duration, bad service in general as you can't go to management and speak about the WG bad uncovered service.
Guys chill. The new law will not be directly enforced even the authorities say so. Most of the local authorities are pissed that this law was even forced on them. I don't know if it was already discussed here, but there was an article in the German Newspaper Bild two weeks ago about how they are enforcing this law. Let me translate for you what the responsible authorities in each of the cities stated: (as good as my English allows me to).
Cologne: "If controls are performed, the regulatory agencies can check, if there is clearly visible information regarding the mandatory use of condoms. We cannot go any further than that".
Hannover: "The check of the mandatory use of condoms is, hardly surprising, difficult. A direct check is, of course, out of the question. It is likely that just the presence of unused condoms is checked on the spot, and also if there are any used condoms. ".
Dresden:" So far, it is not yet clear how the mandatory use of condoms should be checked. It is also questionable whether this is at all checkable".
Dortmund: "The mandatory use of condoms cannot be checked, however, the city of Dortmund checks whether the operators is undertaking efforts to ensure the mandatory use of condoms".
Stuttgart: "We are still waiting for the execution law of the state of Baden-Wrttemberg. The state capital Stuttgart does not yet have any jurisdiction. ".
The only two problems we are facing is:
1) The club managements that actually tells the girls to only do CBJ, this seams to be the case in some clubs. Too bad for those clubs, they will lose a lot of business.
2) Girls are now free to not provide or upsell BBBJ, like some already did with DFK.
Also I want to mention that while the fines for violating this law are high, it will not lead to a criminal record, as it's just a "Ordnungswidrigkeit" (same as getting a speeding ticket)
UltraHappy
07-13-17, 17:15
Guys chill. The new law will not be directly enforced; even the authorities say so. Finally. An informed, sensible post based on actual information and not panic, hysteria, and wild conjecture.
Thank you!
Guys chill. The new law will not be directly enforced even the authorities say so.
Also I want to mention that while the fines for violating this law are high, it will not lead to a criminal record, as it's just a "Ordnungswidrigkeit" (same as getting a speeding ticket)I echo the applause from UH. Not sure if Bild spoke to all of the local authorities to get these quotes but they clearly indicate an acceptance that enforcement is just impossible.
The encouragement to "chill" is spot on. No need for any panic. Nothing will change.
ExpatLover
07-13-17, 17:32
Guys chill. The new law will not be directly enforced even the authorities say so. Most of the local authorities are pissed that this law was even forced on them. I don't know if it was already discussed here, but there was an article in the German Newspaper Bild two weeks ago about how they are enforcing this law. Let me translate for you what the responsible authorities in each of the cities stated: (as good as my English allows me to).
Cologne: "If controls are performed, the regulatory agencies can check, if there is clearly visible information regarding the mandatory use of condoms. We cannot go any further than that".
Hannover: "The check of the mandatory use of condoms is, hardly surprising, difficult. A direct check is, of course, out of the question. It is likely that just the presence of unused condoms is checked on the spot, and also if there are any used condoms. ".
Dresden:" So far, it is not yet clear how the mandatory use of condoms should be checked. It is also questionable whether this is at all checkable".
Dortmund: "The mandatory use of condoms cannot be checked, however, the city of Dortmund checks whether the operators is undertaking efforts to ensure the mandatory use of condoms".The problem is not to be fined, just because the controls are quite impossible but this new law will progressively reduce the offer of BBBJ. Also we should not forget that some girls already left definitively the clubs and the registration process will reduce the number of new comers.
Hessen Bub
07-13-17, 17:43
Those comments are general, not related to FKK clubs specifically. So this is still a valid argument:
The issue is that pressure from club management on the girls could lead to CBJ only. Because club management fear to get in trouble with the authorities.
HB.
Neurosynth
07-13-17, 17:55
Those comments are general, not related to FKK clubs specifically. So this is still a valid argument:
HB.The translated Bild article is much more telling than all the speculation here. Obviously *public authorities* are making it clear that enforcement simply isn't going to happen other than silly inspections for signage or whatever.
As soon as owners figure this out, they will play along, and a don't ask don't tell attitude will dominate. The only way this law works is to create unfounded fear. Spreading those kinds of fears on a board like this is the only way to prop up the new law, not overcome it.
Cologne: "If controls are performed, the regulatory agencies can check, if there is clearly visible information regarding the mandatory use of condoms. We cannot go any further than that".Visible information such as punters posting about it on public forums.
ExpatLover
07-13-17, 19:49
The translated Bild article is much more telling than all the speculation here. Obviously *public authorities* are making it clear that enforcement simply isn't going to happen other than silly inspections for signage or whatever.
As soon as owners figure this out, they will play along, and a don't ask don't tell attitude will dominate. The only way this law works is to create unfounded fear. Spreading those kinds of fears on a board like this is the only way to prop up the new law, not overcome it.Wrong in France, Italy, Spain etc. It is very difficult to get a BBBJ so why this will not be the case with the support of this new law, past is past nostalgia leads nowhere.
Guys chill. The new law will not be directly enforced even the authorities say so.
..............
Dortmund: "The mandatory use of condoms cannot be checked, however, the city of Dortmund checks whether the operators is undertaking efforts to ensure the mandatory use of condoms".
...............
The only two problems we are facing is:
1) The club managements that actually tells the girls to only do CBJ, this seams to be the case in some clubs. Too bad for those clubs, they will lose a lot of business.
2) Girls are now free to not provide or upsell BBBJ, like some already did with DFK.
It's not the police to fear, any less you are a WG against her own will, adversiting AO / BBBJ, or public gang AO, otherwise the police and law will never intervene.
As they said the worst it can get is you getting thrown out of the club, that's it. If clubs would inform the police for any mongers asking for that service then they are committing suicide as they will lose many customers, same with WG they will not do anything higher than informing the club managements (which will be so rare).
What I fear isn't the law itself or the police, what I fear is as follows:
1) Clubs seriously force girls for covered service out of fear.
2) WG using the law as an excuse to upsell or demand longer sessions.
3) WGs that hate doing BBBJ will stop doing it (and this is the only acceptable and fair reason).
4) Lack of public display of uncovered blowjob (as some mongers like myself love to do it anywhere everywhere not caring about who's watching).
5) You need to ask for it everytime prior to your session, which is lame and mood killing, compared to Pre-July which you never had to ask and you knew you will get it +99%.
6) Inside the room if the WG is a total *****, the uncovered service can be shorter in duration even if promised for longer duration, bad service in general as you can't go to management and speak about the WG bad uncovered service.Finally some posts about this matter that make sense and do reflect reality in most of the clubs now (after July 1st): you (as a monger) don't have to fear the police, or any fine (only theoretical), BUT most club operators fear to lose their busines and therefore strictly enforce the girls to do CBJ, and the girls fear their job (and the police) and default to CBJ, especially with new / unkown men (and not so freshly showered men). Only when you are a regular (and clean) you might get the BBBJ and / or at a premium price (risk premium upselling) and most of time under strict non-disclosure!
This is how it now works in most German clubs, exceptions aside of course (no speculation, but real life experiences from several regulars, including myself, the last 2 weeks). So better get used to it, and be lucky if you get BBBJ with some of the WGs you know. The most pityfull is the fact that pre-sales and first sexual activities is not fully relaxed anymore, since this pink elephant clearly is in the room every time. Pity but true.
Hessen Bub
07-13-17, 20:10
As soon as owners figure this out, they will play along, and a don't ask don't tell attitude will dominate. The only way this law works is to create unfounded fear. Spreading those kinds of fears on a board like this is the only way to prop up the new law, not overcome it.Bild is the German sun. Boulevard press. Great source.
I'm with Maxime.
HB.
This lobby is particularly vocal against the New Law: https://www.donacarmen.de.
It has strong words, like: "Der Verein fordert Rechte statt Razzien fuer auslaendische Prostituierte. Eine institutionalisierte Kooperation mit der Polizei lehnt Dona Carmen entschieden ab" (translation: Our Organization demands rights, not police raids for foreign prostitutes. We are radically opposed to any form of institutionalized cooperation with the police").
The address of the Organization is Elbenstrasse in Frankfurt, a street that should ring a bell here.
Beside a general donation account, it has a special donation account for the appeal before the German Supreme Court:
"SPENDENKONTO FUER VERFASSUNGSKLAGE GEGEN DAS PROSTITUIERTENSCHUTZGESETZ".
Dona Carmen e. V.
Frankfurter Sparkasse.
IBAN: DE44 5005 0201 1245 8863 61.
BIC: HELADEF1822.
I propose the following: instead of giving the next upsell 50 euro to a girl for BBBJ, let's give it to those guys.
It might turn out to be the best spent BBBJ 50 euro ever.
Neurosynth
07-13-17, 21:44
Bild is the German sun. Boulevard press. Great source.
I'm with Maxime.
HB.Are you saying the quotes were made up and officials never said them? They certainly sound authentic. The politicians posture, but it's the civil servants who get stuck with implementation. They are going to resent getting extra work so politicians can puff themselves up. They have no incentive to do anything beyond the minimum.
Member #4585
07-13-17, 21:52
Are you saying the quotes were made up and officials never said them? They certainly sound authentic. The politicians posture, but it's the civil servants who get stuck with implementation. They are going to resent getting extra work so politicians can puff themselves up. They have no incentive to do anything beyond the minimum.Sometimes you have to thank the Civil Service and the Bureaucracy in the execution of the will of the legislative power.
Polyamorist
07-13-17, 22:21
This lobby is particularly vocal against the New Law: https://www.donacarmen.de.
That's a great site. It also outs the person most responsible for the regulatory storm: family minister Manuela Schwesig (SPD). Shame on her!
I hope Dona Carmen will put their foot on the gas and get this law repealed so I can return to Germany before January.
Meanwhile I'm also wondering if any of this was ever debated in the Bundestag, or if this huge law was slipped in the same way I like to slip in my dick, without due process.
Hessen Bub
07-13-17, 22:40
Meanwhile I'm also wondering if any of this was ever debated in the Bundestag, or if this huge law was slipped in the same way I like to slip in my dick, without due process.Bundestag. Bundesrat. It went all the way like any other law in Germany.
HB.
As a tourist, and in my point of view. Now BBBJ is illegal. Then I will not ask for it even in the room. I know it make no sense that a police will catch me in the room if I do it. But still I will not ask for it, there are still many legal things to enjoy and after all. Though I guess most concern for guys who like BBBJ alot is not how police react for the situation, but how the girls react. Now its illegal then why will they break a law for free? I think they might take the advantage and ask for $ to do it. Thought I should not care alot because no BBBJ for me now. Only CBJ.
UltraHappy
07-14-17, 02:13
Now its illegal then why will they break a law for free?Again, just to be clear, there is no penalty for the girl, only for the guy.
The better action is to just boycott until it's repealed. Or only see independent ladies outside of the club.
As a tourist, and in my point of view. Now BBBJ is illegal. Then I will not ask for it even in the room. I know it make no sense that a police will catch me in the room if I do it. But still I will not ask for it, there are still many legal things to enjoy and after all. Though I guess most concern for guys who like BBBJ alot is not how police react for the situation, but how the girls react. Now its illegal then why will they break a law for free? I think they might take the advantage and ask for $ to do it. Thought I should not care alot because no BBBJ for me now. Only CBJ.
Citizen Kane
07-14-17, 06:21
The better action is to just boycott until it's repealed. Or only see independent ladies outside of the club.The authorities are looking for reasons to shut clubs down. With a boycott they won't even need too.
Hessen Bub
07-14-17, 06:55
The better action is to just boycott until it's repealed. The appeal by Dona Carmen at the German Supreme Court does exist, but BBBJ ban is just one out of 5 issues they are adressing. If, and that is a big if, The appeal is successful, it doesn't automatically mean the return of BBBJ. Could be that other parts of the law that have to be re-worded. This is a Google translate of the "Politics of the 5 see" as Dona Carmen names it:
► Compulsory Counseling - as a continuation of repeated institutionalized research by those affected
► Compulsory registration - as a state registration of the members of a legally discriminated professional group
► Compulsive stigmatization - due to the constant need to carry a ***** passport with a photo
► Compulsory outing - through a nationwide network of "competent authorities" who act as data centrifuges
► Compulsive condoms - as an overarching state control of sexuality and the intimacy of adult human beingsHB.
ExpatLover
07-14-17, 09:15
The appeal by Dona Carmen at the German Supreme Court does exist, but BBBJ ban is just one out of 5 issues they are adressing. If, and that is a big if, The appeal is successful, it doesn't automatically mean the return of BBBJ. Could be that other parts of the law that have to be re-worded. This is a Google translate of the "Politics of the 5 see" as Dona Carmen names it:
HB.And after if they don t get what they expect they can t also appeal to the European Court of justice, let us enjoy the life like it is today.
- Compulsory counselling can be sidelined with how criminals who have used drugs get help from psychologists. Or how asylum seekers need to go through several phases of scrutiny. Question is if prostitution, which is legal in Germany should be forced into the same roles. I would say this one holds strong by the fact that prostitution after all is legal.
- Compulsory registration. This one might not go through, as freelancers in other sectors can also need to be added to some register. However, the details of the information provided might be up for discussion, and could change. But I don't see this whole point retracted.
- compulsory stigmatization: passport. This one makes no sense, and they have a very strong argument (although could open up for these Ukrainians we've been discussing).
- compulsory outing: no idea what she means here. What is she onto in detail?
- compulsory condom use. This one is not as far fetched as one may think now that we see how western liberal societies open more and more up to gays and lesbians. And we know that std's happens to transfer a lot more often withing gay societies than heterosexual societies. Not to mention how DATY is still legal. Which creates a double standard for safety and sex. Consider the gigolo's. They will still need to preform DATY unprotected.
Instead of a provider passport, maybe they should register hobbyists with a hobbyist passport. Each month the hobbyist could go to an authorized clinic in Germany and be tested for HIV, syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhoea, and then a picture ID made entitling him to a BBBJ CIM (with no upcharge) whereas a client without the card would have to be restricted to the CBJ.
The appeal by Dona Carmen at the German Supreme Court does exist, but BBBJ ban is just one out of 5 issues they are adressing. If, and that is a big if, The appeal is successful, it doesn't automatically mean the return of BBBJ. Could be that other parts of the law that have to be re-worded. This is a Google translate of the "Politics of the 5 see" as Dona Carmen names it:
HB.
- compulsory condom use. This one is not as far fetched as one may think now that we see how western liberal societies open more and more up to gays and lesbians. And we know that std's happens to transfer a lot more often withing gay societies than heterosexual societies. Not to mention how DATY is still legal. Which creates a double standard for safety and sex. Consider the gigolo's. They will still need to preform DATY unprotected.First, more among gays, not among lesbians. Lesbian sex is the most STD-free sex there is. DATY being legal is not necessarily a double standard. While getting an STD from oral sex is rare (but more common for the receptive partner) getting an STD from DATY is almost unheard of. Some researchers question whether there has been even one documented case.
Member #4581
07-14-17, 18:02
Instead of a provider passport, maybe they should register hobbyists with a hobbyist passport. Each month the hobbyist could go to an authorized clinic in Germany and be tested for HIV, syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhoea, and then a picture ID made entitling him to a BBBJ CIM (with no upcharge) whereas a client without the card would have to be restricted to the CBJ.Wow, that's quite a brainwave you got in there.
Are you a monger, or do you represent the feminazis of the world? LOL.
I propose a modification-- instead of an ID, authorities should brand "qualified monger" on the forehand of the person, like they brand cattle with a hot iron. It is a major hassle to have to show ID to every girl to obtain bbbj. She can simply see the stamp and kneel down to business
Citizen Kane
07-14-17, 18:44
Instead of a provider passport, maybe they should register hobbyists with a hobbyist passport. Each month the hobbyist could go to an authorized clinic in Germany and be tested for HIV, syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhoea, and then a picture ID made entitling him to a BBBJ CIM (with no upcharge) whereas a client without the card would have to be restricted to the CBJ.I'm beginning to suspect that you're not actually a real doctor.
Dr Poon would be a great name for a gynecologist though.
Lesbian sex is the most STD-free sex there is. Only because not much of it takes place at all.
DATY being legal is not necessarily a double standard. Why deny DATY being legal its status as a double standard? Isn't there enough gynocratic gender-bias in the New Law (and in society at large) to conclude what we have is, among other things, a double standard? What other evidence do you need? The reason so few people point to the double standard is because female gender-bias is so pervasive it has become second nature.
... getting an STD from DATY is almost unheard of. Some researchers question whether there has been even one documented case. Why this eagerness to always validate the man=bad, woman=good paradigm? I'm sure hundreds of men get their life-long herpes infection through DATY every day.
Hessen Bub
07-14-17, 20:21
Instead of a provider passport, maybe they should register hobbyists with a hobbyist passport. Each month the hobbyist could go to an authorized clinic in Germany and be tested for HIV, syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhoea, and then a picture ID made entitling him to a BBBJ CIM (with no upcharge) whereas a client without the card would have to be restricted to the CBJ.Don't forget to bring your hobby passport for immigration in Germany. They will be happy to fuck you in the ass with no upcharge. :D
HB.
ExpatLover
07-14-17, 21:24
Don't forget to bring your hobby passport for immigration in Germany. They will be happy to fuck you in the ass with no upcharge. :D
HB.Very unproductive reports, let us be positive and enjoying our favorite "sport".
Polyamorist
07-14-17, 21:40
While getting an STD from oral sex is rare (but more common for the receptive partner) getting an STD from DATY is almost unheard of. Some researchers question whether there has been even one documented case.Rubbish, it is so mainstream that when Michael Douglas got throat cancer in 2010 he famously (and hilariously) blamed it on the DATY he gave to his wife Catherine Zeta-Jones.
Polyamorist
07-14-17, 21:54
Isn't there enough gynocratic gender-bias in the New Law (and in society at large) to conclude what we have is, among other things, a double standard? What other evidence do you need? The reason so few people point to the double standard is because female gender-bias is so pervasive it has become second nature.What double standard? I'm sure Minister Schwesig is happy to leave her bedroom doors unlocked when she is enjoying conjugal relations so that the Polizei may burst in at any moment and check that all is proceeding in the State-approved manner. Similarly, I know Chancellor Merkel would be delighted to receive advice from me about what she should put in her vagina in exchange for all the advice she has been so keen to offer me about what I should wear on my cock.
Heaven forbid that politicians should start to imagine that laws only apply to unpopular minorities and never themselves. Can't remember that ever happening in history.
Nope, no double standard at all.
They should deduct 5 euros from her government salary and give her 5 female condoms at least. To be fair.
What double standard? I'm sure Minister Schwesig is happy to leave her bedroom doors unlocked when she is enjoying conjugal relations so that the Polizei may burst in at any moment and check that all is proceeding in the State-approved manner. Similarly, I know Chancellor Merkel would be delighted to receive advice from me about what she should put in her vagina in exchange for all the advice she has been so keen to offer me about what I should wear on my cock.
Heaven forbid that politicians should start to imagine that laws only apply to unpopular minorities and never themselves. Can't remember that ever happening in history.
Nope, no double standard at all.
MarquisdeSade1
07-15-17, 00:01
What double standard? I'm sure Minister Schwesig is happy to leave her bedroom doors unlocked when she is enjoying conjugal relations so that the Polizei may burst in at any moment and check that all is proceeding in the State-approved manner. Similarly, I know Chancellor Merkel would be delighted to receive advice from me about what she should put in her vagina in exchange for all the advice she has been so keen to offer me about what I should wear on my cock.
Heaven forbid that politicians should start to imagine that laws only apply to unpopular minorities and never themselves. Can't remember that ever happening in history.
Nope, no double standard at all.I can say I hate feminists I hate governments and this new law and on and on.
But I have to state what I read in American media about the new law.
The media there stated that, Germany legalised sex work in approx 2003 and thought they would manage it better that way.
Instead it exploded into a very huge industry to their surprise, probably because others were doing things ie Sweden to chase men to Germany.
So double standard? Nope that's really oversimplifying the issue, they never expected it to explode like it did, so in the words of the article I read, the want to "rein it in a bit".
For all the guys panicking about the end of the world, my thoughts are this, don't worry pussy has been for sale since the dawn of time and it always will be.
Don't worry, its not going anywhere anytime soon, even if Germany makes it illegal, it is my understanding, Germany had lots of great brothels in the 80's and 90's.
I know many guys that used to fly from america to go to Praha, well that seems to have died out long ago, probably when 2003 in Germany came into being?
They will always be demand which will always have its supply.
Econ 101!
ExpatLover
07-15-17, 08:25
I can say I hate feminists I hate governments and this new law and on and on.
But I have to state what I read in American media about the new law.
The media there stated that, Germany legalised sex work in approx 2003 and thought they would manage it better that way.
Instead it exploded into a very huge industry to their surprise, probably because others were doing things ie Sweden to chase men to Germany.
So double standard? Nope that's really oversimplifying the issue, they never expected it to explode like it did, so in the words of the article I read, the want to "rein it in a bit".
For all the guys panicking about the end of the world, my thoughts are this, don't worry pussy has been for sale since the dawn of time and it always will be.
Don't worry, its not going anywhere anytime soon, even if Germany makes it illegal, it is my understanding, Germany had lots of great brothels in the 80's and 90's.
I know many guys that used to fly from america to go to Praha, well that seems to have died out long ago, probably when 2003 in Germany came into being?
They will always be demand which will always have its supply.
Econ 101!Sorry- but he brothels were not great in the 80 or 90 it was dirty business, FKK is a very special concept and personally except escorting I am never visiting a RLD or a brothel specially when it is illegal. The things are changing in the prostitution scene"e in Germany, and it might just be the beginning.
Hello!
I have a chance of stopping by in Germany for a few hours while on my way to / from eastern Europe, and would love for some help.
I land in Frankfurt on Monday at approximately 11 am and my connecting file out is at 10 pm the same night.
What are my options?
Is Sharks the best to go?
Would it be too early to go straight to the FKK? Or would it be ok to head to downtown, grab something to eat and go?
Taxi or train? (from downtown or airport).
I'm then back in Munich the following weekend (Saturday) from 6 pm to 7 am. I've normally been to Colosseum in Augsburg when I've stayed in Munich for a few days. But given the change in the current law, and due to the short visit what should I do? I can buy a Bavarian day pass to get to Ausburg after a good meal in downtown Munich. I'd probably make it there by 10 pm or so. My concern is getting from there to Munich airport at 3 am. How much do you think a taxi would cost? And would the FKK be able to get me one?
Or would it be financially better to stick around in Munich and go to sunshine. Given that I'll get maybe 3 sessions in, and even with the 90 E for DATY / 30 minutes, it still wouldn't cover up the cost in taxi?
Thank you!
I must add, I've never been to any of the clubs in the FRA area. Would love to have a 3-some at one of the two places.
ExpatLover
07-15-17, 20:23
I must add, I've never been to any of the clubs in the FRA area. Would love to have a 3-some at one of the two places.What is your message about, 3-some is available in most of the clubs in Germany you don t need to go to Frankfurt, the girls are very happy about it, they just need to work half for the same money.
On the other hand the service decrease will cause demand reduction. Back before doomsday July 1, if it was the end of the night and a questionable girl came up to me, I would say what the hell and just do it because I knew it was a BBBJ with CIM at least. Now, my standards will rise considerably and I will be turning more women down unless they are exactly my type or I will just seek higher service closer to home. So this law will decrease demand and a lot of girls on the lower end of the scale will be on unemployment. The German government will be supporting them with unemployment and food assistance, etc.
I can say I hate feminists I hate governments and this new law and on and on.
But I have to state what I read in American media about the new law.
The media there stated that, Germany legalised sex work in approx 2003 and thought they would manage it better that way.
Instead it exploded into a very huge industry to their surprise, probably because others were doing things ie Sweden to chase men to Germany.
So double standard? Nope that's really oversimplifying the issue, they never expected it to explode like it did, so in the words of the article I read, the want to "rein it in a bit"..
Universo Fkk
07-15-17, 21:10
Dear friends,
May I ask you which ones are the 3 Hessen's FKK club who banned BBJ. As the historical user and member of this community HB said. By forbidding girls by providing it? World I read is one of them. The other ones? Thanks in advance.
ExpatLover
07-16-17, 03:30
On the other hand the service decrease will cause demand reduction. Back before doomsday July 1, if it was the end of the night and a questionable girl came up to me, I would say what the hell and just do it because I knew it was a BBBJ with CIM at least. Now, my standards will rise considerably and I will be turning more women down unless they are exactly my type or I will just seek higher service closer to home. So this law will decrease demand and a lot of girls on the lower end of the scale will be on unemployment. The German government will be supporting them with unemployment and food assistance, etc.I think that it is a case to case situation, very difficult t give any global view. May be we should not forget that even before 1St of July the situation was not good just look of the entry prices of the clubs decreased in the past years and how many discount offers are getting available. Some me girls have left the P6 scene, many are trying to move from one club to another, from FKK to escort in Europe and some are taking long holidays and a lot are trying to live with lower income.
Member #4585
07-16-17, 07:59
Dear friends,
May I ask you which ones are the 3 Hessen's FKK club who banned BBJ. As the historical user and member of this community HB said. By forbidding girls by providing it? World I read is one of them. The other ones? Thanks in advance.Bareback sex in all the clubs is banned including BBBJ and the fine for the man is 50,000 euro.
This is the mantra that all my German acquaintances have been telling me when I see them in the club since 1 July.
The club management tell all the girls they are banned from performing BBBJ. World is one of them. There are others in Hessen area too.
Member #4585
07-16-17, 08:01
I must add, I've never been to any of the clubs in the FRA area. Would love to have a 3-some at one of the two places.Threesome with two girls is good when the goods work well together so nake sure they know each other or ask the girl which friend she like to work with.
Hello!
I have a chance of stopping by in Germany for a few hours while on my way to / from eastern Europe, and would love for some help.
I land in Frankfurt on Monday at approximately 11 am and my connecting file out is at 10 pm the same night.
What are my options?
Is Sharks the best to go?
Would it be too early to go straight to the FKK? Or would it be ok to head to downtown, grab something to eat and go?
Taxi or train? (from downtown or airport).
I'm then back in Munich the following weekend (Saturday) from 6 pm to 7 am. I've normally been to Colosseum in Augsburg when I've stayed in Munich for a few days. But given the change in the current law, and due to the short visit what should I do? I can buy a Bavarian day pass to get to Ausburg after a good meal in downtown Munich.For FRA, straight to Sharks for breakfast at 11 am.
Many girls say Monday is a quite good day for business at Sharks.
I can say I hate feminists I hate governments and this new law and on and on.
But I have to state what I read in American media about the new law.
The media there stated that, Germany legalised sex work in approx 2003 and thought they would manage it better that way.
Instead it exploded into a very huge industry to their surprise, probably because others were doing things ie Sweden to chase men to Germany.
So double standard? Nope that's really oversimplifying the issue, they never expected it to explode like it did, so in the words of the article I read, the want to "rein it in a bit".
For all the guys panicking about the end of the world, my thoughts are this, don't worry pussy has been for sale since the dawn of time and it always will be.When we are foreigners living in foreign countries, we should not judge this law, just with our small dick. Many girls tell many clients are married or living with a woman. Many clients ask and propose extra money to fuck bareback, before returning to wife, so this law is not only about brothels, but also to protect family health.
WGs have also the right to propose or not some services, to different guys, without complaints on desk about standard services not provided. No more standard services, like before some girls didn't kiss because too intimate, but provided BBBJ as standard service.
I experience some girls who don't like to provide BBBJ, but are great kisser and sensual women. On the other hand, some girls are just sucker for CIM, not my type of girls.
Like for everything in life, we get from what we are, beyond laws.
FlyByCable
07-16-17, 09:12
The club management tell all the girls they are banned from performing BBBJ. World is one of them. There are others in Hessen area too.I can't understand why they would forbid the girls, it's not the girls or the club who breaking the law.
It's like if the police would give the passengers in a car a speeding ticket when the driver breaking the speed limit.
As a couple of days holiday I usually take a trip to Hessen up to 10 times a year, but with this BBBJ banning I think I will spend my money in Copenhagen instead. It's a closer distance from my home in Sweden.
The club management will kill there own business, they just don't know it yet. The girls will seek other places and other countries if the money doesn't come there.
Came across the web page of Swing-In in Rodgau. I've never been there (most reports are negative), but there is the following page, linked from the main page: https://swing-in-rodgau.de/klartext/.
This is not an official text but it is obvious that it was written by someone who knows what the law says and what it doesn't.
First, I haven't been to a club since the law came into effect.
It makes it clear that condoms must be used for oral, vaginal, or anal sex. It says, however, that for DATY and rimming no condom is needed. This makes sense; the idea is to keep the man's sperm from the inside of the woman. As such, COB and COF are not forbidden. (Of course, insertive sex doesn't mean that one has to come, but it makes sense-assuming one agrees with the law at all-that the law specifies a condom for insertive sex, rather than forbidding coming inside, which is difficult to monitor, can happen by accident, and sometimes even difficult to define.).
The law also forbids flatrate clubs. This explains why now one pays a fee and gets 8 sessions or whatever. This is interesting, and shows that the lawmakers don't really understand what is going on. The average number of sessions is probably 4 or so. Thus, at a flatrate club, the cost of a session was about the same as in the RLD. True, more were possible, but some punters might have only one or two, so on average the girls probably made MORE than in the RLD. I'm a bit surprised that this works, especially since it wasn't that long ago that the practice of paying the girls directly started, to underline the fact that they are independent entrepreneurs. OK, maybe legally it is like chips in a casino.
Also, sex with pregnant prostitutes is forbidden, as are the terms "[CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)" and "gang bang". I've never seen a club advertise "[CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)", even if it is not meant seriously. Forbidding "gang bang" appears to be due to confusion with the term "gang-bang [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)". Yes, this exists, but not every gang bang is [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123), of course. As most swinger clubs will testify, there are women who come explicitly in order to experience a gang bang. These two terms are forbidden because they suggest that the woman doesn't have the possibility of refusal. True, of course, for [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123), but again "gang bang" is being misunderstood here.
Interestingly, it says that "FKK" is forbidden as well (in connection with prostitution), at least advertising containing it, since it would imply that the women are forced to be naked. I find this a bit strange. In other cases, a club, company, whatever can have a dress code, even if it requires or forbids things which are not forbidden or required in public. Second, nudity is required in public saunas, FKK beaches, etc. OK, the only reason to go there is because one is interested in FKK, whereas one could argue that at an FKK club the woman is interested in working as a prostitute and might not want to be nude in public, but I can't really imagine that anyone seriously objects who is otherwise comfortable to work (presumably, often nude) as a prostitute. (On the other hand, even at some FKK clubs the women aren't completely nude.) I don't see how anyone could object to girls being voluntarily naked in a club, though. This is different than the condom stuff: condoms are required, and for that reason one can't advertise AO etc. Girls are not required to be clothed. Advertising would imply that they are forced to be nude. However, nudity itself is not forbidden. So, FKK clubs will probably continue to exist. Girls who don't want to be nude could work at another club. My guess is that even if the advertising goes away, clubs will tend to have all girls nude or none nude, since FKK is a reason why many punters come.
The condom stuff has been discussed at length here, and my impression is that it is pretty clear that the clubs will do all they can to make sure it is enforced. Having said that, I don't see how bareback sex would actually be prosecuted. I don't think that a girl who agrees to it will accuse the punter, and there won't be undercover (pun intended) agents trying to trap punters. (Since only the punter is punished, undercover johns wouldn't even make sense.) This is probably similar to sex at a massage parlour which explicitly does not advertise for sex (whether or not it advertises for erotic massages), whether or not prostitution itself is legal in the country. As long as extramarital sex itself is not illegal, consenting adults can agree to have sex. The fact that it is in the context of a non-sexual service actually makes it less of a risk: it is clear that it is voluntary on both sides (at least if no additional money is involved), though of course in practice no-one would know.
What will happen, though, is that clubs will do everything they can to be seen to be complying. I do think that reports of (now) illegal activities at clubs have the potential to get the club shut down. Just because only the punter is fined doesn't mean that the other parties are not involved at all; they don't want to be seen as aiding and abetting. Aiding and abetting is in general a crime if one aids and abets a crime, even if one doesn't do so oneself. Thus, the Pirate Bay has done illegal stuff, one can't openly publish ads from hit men, etc. The situation is different in countries where prostitution itself is forbidden. If it is forbidden anyway, it makes little difference what, in detail, is on offer. In Germany, though, where clubs make money legally, they have an interest in being seen to comply.
I also think that it is perfectly possible that authorities will monitor boards like this one.
Obviously, no-one can complain about a girl not agreeing to something illegal, and some girls who were never really comfortable with it anyway will use this as an excuse.
Imagine reports about some place where illegal drugs, or illegal weapons, or whatever, are bought and sold, and discussion about this on the internet. Even if the owner isn't involved and doesn't advertise, it is enough if a case can be made before a court that he knowingly tolerated it, especially if he benefitted indirectly (by selling food and accomodation, say) from illegal practices.
The club management tell all the girls they are banned from performing BBBJ.This seems to be the fact that readers are missing. The "enforcers" are club management. Yet, people keep droning on about entrapment, undercover female cops, and how the "law" is unenforceable. If there is to be a debate at all, it should be "Can club rules be enforced? Not "Can this new law be enforced?
This is the mantra that all my German acquaintances have been telling me when I see them in the club since 1 July.Simply reading that you and all your German acquaintances continue to attend, tells me that the WGs are still "willing to please" as Sirioja puts it. But then most readers don't have the clout you and Sirioja have either, so they might go home disappointed (or end up overpaying).
Bareback sex in all the clubs is banned including BBBJ and the fine for the man is 50,000 euro.Is this a fixed penalty or the maximum possible fine under the new law?
Is this a fixed penalty or the maximum possible fine under the new law?It is the maximum penalty.
Mongerer88
07-16-17, 14:22
This seems to be the fact that readers are missing. The "enforcers" are club management. Yet, people keep droning on about entrapment, undercover female cops, and how the "law" is unenforceable. If there is to be a debate at all, it should be "Can club rules be enforced? Not "Can this new law be enforced?
Simply reading that you and all your German acquaintances continue to attend, tells me that the WGs are still "willing to please" as Sirioja puts it. But then most readers don't have the clout you and Sirioja have either, so they might go home disappointed (or end up overpaying).Exactly. I think people here are barking up the wrong tree based on what has happened under different (yet somewhat similar) circumstances in other countries.
What would be interesting to know is whether the German government has the ability to seize assets and close a business under a Guilty Until Proven Innocent System like those that exist in many parts of the world. By the time the day in court arrives, the business is so badly damaged that the day in court is meaningless.
As I said before, we went through this in Canada when the new law was passed. There were nonsense posts about the police busting into hotel rooms and interviewing sex workers to impose jail terms and fines on johns under the illegal to buy sex (and illegal to promote by agencies) but legal to sell sex system. Of course that never happened, but the agencies and review boards made a lot of changes in advertising, details and links. The real risk was the government shutting down the agencies, not prosecuting individual buyers.
The basis for the risk was based upon the shutdowns that have occurred in the USA Of agencies that had ladies tour in multiple states. We are talking about federal government action, not states. The federal enforcement was effective, and there seems to be few agencies in the USA That operate across state lines, where many years ago there were a lot. The federal government would give immunity to a few sex workers and a smaller number of johns willing (or forced) to testify about illegal activity (particularly the crossing of state lines for commercial sex) and use that "evidence" to seize all assets of the escort service including phones and websites, but most importantly the cash. Most of these cases got settled years later with the operators getting little or no jail time, but the government kept the assets and the operations were effectively ended on the day of seizure. The many online reviews were never used as direct evidence, but one could logically conclude that reading them contributed to the decision by the federal government to do the enforcement at the beginning. Many intrastate escort services still exist now, but at least five major interstate ones were destroyed by this process.
Here is my question, and I know nothing about Germany. If German law enforcement were able to find some disgruntled workers who said that management encouraged them to do BBBJs and part of that encouragement was to avoid bad reviews from online review and discussion boards that were shown to the ladies, would that be sufficient to allow German law enforcement to seize assets and close a place pending a trial? I am not sure if German law enforcement can do that before a trial, like law enforcement in other countries can. Of course you would think that no court would accept such arguments by the government since anyone can make anything up and post it online. A competitor could do lots of online posts about BBBJs at a competitor if it thought that would cause law enforcement to shut down that competitor.
But after the new Canadian law, we saw agencies stop advertising services, stop linking to reviews, and the review boards relocate to more friendly evidentiary jurisdictions and ban the posting of details in certain circumstances. It has been effective so far, as no agencies have been shut down so far.
I could see this strategy being the reason that FKK management wants to be able to demonstrate to the government and to law enforcement that they are attempting to comply with the new law, and I would think they would deny any knowledge of online posts regarding supposed illegal activity. From a game theory perspective, an argument could be made for the advantages of no one directly reporting BBBJs online, but that is very difficult to happen with so many posters.
Hessen Bub
07-16-17, 15:00
This seems to be the fact that readers are missing. The "enforcers" are club management. Yet, people keep droning on about entrapment, undercover female cops, and how the "law" is unenforceable. If there is to be a debate at all, it should be "Can club rules be enforced? Not "Can this new law be enforced?
Exactly. It's enough if the club bans BBBJs. And the girls stick to it as they are afraid to be kicked out.
HB.
What will happen, though, is that clubs will do everything they can to be seen to be complying. I do think that reports of (now) illegal activities at clubs have the potential to get the club shut down. Just because only the punter is fined doesn't mean that the other parties are not involved at all; they don't want to be seen as aiding and abetting. Aiding and abetting is in general a crime if one aids and abets a crime, even if one doesn't do so oneself. Thus, the Pirate Bay has done illegal stuff, one can't openly publish ads from hit men, etc. The situation is different in countries where prostitution itself is forbidden. If it is forbidden anyway, it makes little difference what, in detail, is on offer. In Germany, though, where clubs make money legally, they have an interest in being seen to comply. I also think that it is perfectly possible that authorities will monitor boards like this one.You and others have made some very strong points. I tend to agree with what you have said. I haven't been to the FKKs since the new law became effective, but I have decided to voluntarily refrain from reporting on BBBJs in the future. I'll just say "BJ". Of course, that means I can no longer write things like "my cum was around her mouth" or "on her lips" as that would be TMI. Sucks (pun intended), but I agree this is what should be done. So, I'll just say "BJ". Doesn't mean I didn't get a BBBJ. But, doesn't mean I did either. Let the authorities reading figure it out!
Member #4581
07-16-17, 15:34
Is the iconic FKK the central focus of authorities? To the points M88 makes, I suppose it is easier to seize assets and shut down a few large clubs to make maximal impact, but if the activity just becomes decentralized, smaller places, less organized, then they need a different mechanism to make enforcement.
LE shutting down agencies in the USA actually ended up being a benefit. Prices lowered and the quality of women improved because independent women in the USA are a better deal.
Exactly. I think people here are barking up the wrong tree based on what has happened under different (yet somewhat similar) circumstances in other countries.
What would be interesting to know is whether the German government has the ability to seize assets and close a business under a Guilty Until Proven Innocent System like those that exist in many parts of the world. By the time the day in court arrives, the business is so badly damaged that the day in court is meaningless.
As I said before, we went through this in Canada when the new law was passed. There were nonsense posts about the police busting into hotel rooms and interviewing sex workers to impose jail terms and fines on johns under the illegal to buy sex (and illegal to promote by agencies) but legal to sell sex system. Of course that never happened, but the agencies and review boards made a lot of changes in advertising, details and links. The real risk was the government shutting down the agencies, not prosecuting individual buyers.
The basis for the risk was based upon the shutdowns that have occurred in the USA Of agencies that had ladies tour in multiple states. We are talking about federal government action, not states. The federal enforcement was effective, and there seems to be few agencies in the USA That operate across state lines, where many years ago there were a lot. The federal government would give immunity to a few sex workers and a smaller number of johns willing (or forced) to testify about illegal activity (particularly the crossing of state lines for commercial sex) and use that "evidence" to seize all assets of the escort service including phones and websites, but most importantly the cash. Most of these cases got settled years later with the operators getting little or no jail time, but the government kept the assets and the operations were effectively ended on the day of seizure. The many online reviews were never used as direct evidence, but one could logically conclude that reading them contributed to the decision by the federal government to do the enforcement at the beginning. Many intrastate escort services still exist now, but at least five major interstate ones were destroyed by this process.
ExpatLover
07-16-17, 18:20
Is the iconic FKK the central focus of authorities? To the points M88 makes, I suppose it is easier to seize assets and shut down a few large clubs to make maximal impact, but if the activity just becomes decentralized, smaller places, less organized, then they need a different mechanism to make enforcement.Can't be like this just check who are the customers of those clubs, mostly wealthy German guys or tourists, those clients are looking for safety, discretion, cleanness, if money is a problem for them they can find so many cheaper solutions already today. Most probably the business will remain unchanged with a drop of the offer due to registration, more difficult for the girls under 21 etc.
UltraHappy
07-16-17, 18:29
Here is my question, and I know nothing about Germany. If German law enforcement were able to find some disgruntled workers who said that management encouraged them to do BBBJs and part of that encouragement was to avoid bad reviews from online review and discussion boards that were shown to the ladies, would that be sufficient to allow German law enforcement to seize assets and close a place pending a trial? The clubs don't encourage the girls to do BBBJ. Period.
When a new girl shows up at a club, she is given a tour, reception explains the rules (how to check out the room keys, you're not allowed to go in the man locker room, how to find the locker room, etc, etc -- of course, these rules vary by club). The big clubs normally don't say anything to the girl about the sex part of the job.
If a girl is new to the job and has questions about stuff that happens in the room, Reception normally just pairs that girl up with an experienced girl and asks the experienced girl to explain things to the brand new girl. Of course, the new girl can ask questions to any of the other girls as well. In this way, the club doesn't actually instruct the girl about what to do and what no to do in the room. Instead, this instruction normally comes to the new independent contractor via another more experienced independent contractor.
Market forces such as competition, supply and demand, etc determine the willingness of a girl to offer non-obligatory services. So far, market dynamics have been quite favorable in the majority of the clubs.
ExpatLover
07-16-17, 18:32
The clubs don't encourage the girls to do BBBJ. Period.
When a new girl shows up at a club, she is given a tour, reception explains the rules (how to check out the room keys, you're not allowed to go in the man locker room, how to find the locker room, etc, etc -- of course, these rules vary by club). The big clubs normally don't say anything to the girl about the sex part of the job.
If a girl is new to the job and has questions about stuff that happens in the room, Reception normally just pairs that girl up with an experienced girl and asks the experienced girl to explain things to the brand new girl. Of course, the new girl can ask questions to any of the other girls as well. In this way, the club doesn't actually instruct the girl about what to do and what no to do in the room. Instead, this instruction normally comes to the new independent contractor via another more experienced independent contractor.
Market forces such as competition, supply and demand, etc determine the willingness of a girl to offer non-obligatory services. So far, market dynamics have been quite favorable in the majority of the clubs.Sorry I don t understand your last sentence, favorable to whom, girls or mongers?
Member #4581
07-16-17, 19:30
This seems to be the fact that readers are missing. The "enforcers" are club management. Yet, people keep droning on about entrapment, undercover female cops, and how the "law" is unenforceable. If there is to be a debate at all, it should be "Can club rules be enforced? Not "Can this new law be enforced?
."Missing" - how about other people are not missing anything, but just disagreeing with that view?
From the time this law was being conceptualized, framed, discussed, passed, and all the way to June 30, there was endless discussion. One member more than anyone else had the refrain "don't speculate, wait and see". This continued even into late May, just a month prior to the new law. Sometimes, he took on the tone of net. Police, but generally the "lets wait to see it unfold" made sense (to me anyway).
Then magically, a day after July 1, it was "no more open reports, or else BBBJ will end". By the same member being in the lead, except 180 deg reversal now. No more "wait and see, don't speculate". It became "discussion and open reports lead to xyz (what ever that dire consequence is)". I guess certain members have acquired superlative prognosticative abilities which were not evident earlier.
Until June 30, majority of discussion was "girls would raise prices, unless you are regular"; not many forecasted BBBJ will be shut down drastically or that open reports here are the leading cause of such. So, as I see this, people could not forecast what happens in the first two weeks of July even in the last two weeks of June, but now making forecasts about what will happen from here to eternity (or whatever time frame they have in mind) with huge certainty. OK then.
Hessen Bub
07-16-17, 20:39
Then magically, a day after July 1, it was "no more open reports, or else BBBJ will end". By the same member being in the lead, except 180 deg reversal now. No more "wait and see, don't speculate". It became "discussion and open reports lead to xyz (what ever that dire consequence is)". I guess certain members have acquired superlative prognosticative abilities which were not evident earlier.
It was wait and see before July. In July I saw what effect the law and open discussion about BBBJ had. So the consequence for me was: no more reporting about it. Makes sense to me.
HB.
Neurosynth
07-16-17, 21:08
It was wait and see before July. In July I saw what effect the law and open discussion about BBBJ had...July is not even over and you've already seen open discussion make BB services disappear? And you are certain of a causal linkage? Please explain.
I have just spent a very busy and long day checking out what is available in an FKK, three apartments and one street walker.
I am not going to report on which girl did what where, but just that at the moment there is a wide range of services available to anyone who wants to find it for themselves.
I will not give details as I believe that reporting that a girl did an act which was against the law for her customer could lead to that girl being thrown out of the club as the clubs try to preserve their moneymaking business. And thumbing in the face of the law is likely to lead to calls for tougher enforcement by the fanatical members of the SPD.
Please, nobody tell me I should post details about anything which might have been illegal.
I will report on where I went and service levels in the appropriate threads if I get time
Neurosynth
07-16-17, 21:37
Right. So despite high profile politicians pontificating, laws being debated, unenforceable fines being touted, and general fear and uncertainty being spread among Germans, BB services are still available. But a few posts on an English language board will bring the whole thing tumbling down? Really?
LE shutting down agencies in the USA actually ended up being a benefit. Prices lowered and the quality of women improved because independent women in the USA are a better deal.One important (missing) point to remember is that the German law on prostitution (the old one, not just the new one) bans prostitution except in especially designated areas. Working as an "independent" woman has been illegal for as long as I can remember. If I'm not mistaken having an "escort" over to your home or hotel room is technically illegal unless you happen to live outside the "Sperrbezirk" (the "no-prostitution" area which normally enclosed two thirds of the city). So clubs disbanding for girls to fan out to set up shop in a myriad of apartments is unlikely to happen unless prostitution becomes illegal period. I guess girls who advertise in the papers for outcalls call themselves "masseuses" for the prostitution case to boil down to one of happy ending or not if there is trouble.
Mongerer88
07-16-17, 22:04
LE shutting down agencies in the USA actually ended up being a benefit. Prices lowered and the quality of women improved because independent women in the USA are a better deal.As with your Vegas post, I am not quite sure where you go to get your American hookers. It is a big market that defies stereotyping. The current group of high end independents provide excellent service usually including BBBJ, but in most big cities the prices are $400 - $600 an hour on the review board we are not allowed to mention. You are correct that after the demise of multi-state agencies, the backpage and backpage-type market proliferated and there are many more $200 or so an hour providers, but many are skanks, druggies, and law enforcement fake ads. Not all, certainly, but many. When big agencies like Miami Companions had a touring lady in every big city, a person got a high quality lady and good service almost always for $300-$350 an hour. A lot of guys liked that market and we're sorry to see the federal government end it. I realize that is ridiculously expensive compared to Europe, but every country is different. I do wonder how much online reviews contributed to the federal givernment's actions against the big multi-state agencies.
MarquisdeSade1
07-16-17, 22:12
As with your Vegas post, I am not quite sure where you go to get your American hookers. It is a big market that defies stereotyping. The current group of high end independents provide excellent service usually including BBBJ, but in most big cities the prices are $400 - $600 an hour on the review board we are not allowed to mention. You are correct that after the demise of multi-state agencies, the backpage and backpage-type market proliferated and there are many more $200 or so an hour providers, but many are skanks, druggies, and law enforcement fake ads. Not all, certainly, but many. When big agencies like Miami Companions had a touring lady in every big city, a person got a high quality lady and good service almost always for $300-$350 an hour. A lot of guys liked that market and we're sorry to see the federal government end it. I realize that is ridiculously expensive compared to Europe, but every country is different. I do wonder how much online reviews contributed to the federal givernment's actions against the big multi-state agencies.I don't know anyone that pays that much.
There are many many local small agencies.
With great polish / Russian talent.
And backpage is alive and well.
Despite reports of its demise, many gems for 100 usd.
That doesn't even scratch the surface, if you include every strip club.
I get my info from the fact that in the USA one can go on backpage or craigslist and regularly find women for $60 us dollars for a 15 minute quick visit and / or if properly negotiated a BBBJ with CIM. Proper research and focus on new beginners is required. Intermediate or long term providers become jaded and raise their rates until they get to the point they are too old and become physically undesirable but at that time they can get on retirement benefits anyway at age 62.
Also it is relatively easy for USA local LE to shut down almost any agency in its jurisdiction and not even needing the FBI. Most local agencies are easily taken down by the local LE. All they need to do is book an appointment and or get fake references which is easy to get. A fake reference is obtained by fabricating screen names on hobby websites, fabricating employment background information or getting a fake drivers license and then getting a prostitution contract with one of the girls from the agency. Then all the girls associated with the agency plus the agency operator (legally considered a pimp under USA laws) are indicted and then usually they all eventually plead guilty and the agency is shut down. If they go to trial they loose 99 percent of the time.
By spreading and scattering independent providers usually in rapidly changed hotel rooms (not fixed apartment locations) it becomes impossible for the USA government to stop prostitution. By centrally locating, they become a target easily taken out.
Just like a car chase full of four criminals. If they bail out of the car at a stop, and run in a group they are easily caught. But if they split and run in four different directions and scatter they increase their odds.
As with your Vegas post, I am not quite sure where you go to get your American hookers. It is a big market that defies stereotyping. The current group of high end independents provide excellent service usually including BBBJ, but in most big cities the prices are $400 - $600 an hour on the review board we are not allowed to mention. You are correct that after the demise of multi-state agencies, the backpage and backpage-type market proliferated and there are many more $200 or so an hour providers, but many are skanks, druggies, and law enforcement fake ads. Not all, certainly, but many. When big agencies like Miami Companions had a touring lady in every big city, a person got a high quality lady and good service almost always for $300-$350 an hour. A lot of guys liked that market and we're sorry to see the federal government end it. I realize that is ridiculously expensive compared to Europe, but every country is different. I do wonder how much online reviews contributed to the federal givernment's actions against the big multi-state agencies.
"Missing" - how about other people are not missing anything, but just disagreeing with that view?I am just baffled why people insist on focusing on "laws", when "club rules" are the more immediate concern. In other words, no individual monger is being cock-blocked by the German authorities. Individual mongers are getting cock-blocked by FKK club management. If in the future, a monger does 15 sessions during a 5-day trip, and all 15 WGs tell the customer that they can only offer CBJ because it violates club rules, then the law becomes a moot point.
Threesome with two girls is good when the goods work well together so nake sure they know each other or ask the girl which friend she like to work with.Thanks! What / how do the rates normally work for 2 girls? 1 hour rate (so 100 E) x 2? And yes, will take my time to make sure they get along.
For FRA, straight to Sharks for breakfast at 11 am.
Many girls say Monday is a quite good day for business at Sharks.Best to take the taxi straight from the airport to Sharks? Probably get there closer to 1 pm. Stay for 5 hours, and head to downtown? Or head to Sharks around 2 pm to stay till 7?
Member #4581
07-17-17, 02:27
I respect your view that club rules are the gate keeper or cock blocker as you say, but that's not yet a fact, it is a view. If it was a fact which was universally true, none of us would be debating it.
And club rules are dependent on the law. They changed presumably, because of the change in the law. Would the club rules be changed and stay that way permanently, regardless of how the law is being enforced in the rest of the land?
In any case, these are all prognostications and your guess is as good as mine (or perhaps as you believe, better than mine). Fine. But what I will not do is ask you to change the way you communicate based on what I think will happen. But somehow your side is so convinced in the merit of your argument that you are willing to go to the mats against the other side. No one is stupid around here, and if and when people see a direct, causal link between something typed here and a bad outcome in the club, many of us would self moderate.
I respect your view that club rules are the gate keeper or cock blocker as you say, but that's not yet a fact, it is a view. If it was a fact which was universally true, none of us would be debating it.
The statement that new "club rules" have been established has not been refuted by anyone to my knowledge. According to news articles, German authorities have yet to mobilize at all, so who else could be the cock blocker at Rom, World and possibly a few more.
And club rules are dependent on the law. They changed presumably, because of the change in the law. Would the club rules be changed and stay that way permanently, regardless of how the law is being enforced in the rest of the land?
Yes, the law indirectly influenced the drafting of the new club rules. The hope is that the rule will be loosely enforced as time goes on. My point is the authorities do not have the resources to enforce anything themselves. So if the clubs can be convinced to look the other way, then 95% of the problem is solved.
I had sex as a teenager, and where I grew up sex between two minors is illegal (even if it is consexual). But guess what there are too many horny, misbehaving teenagers and not enough cops, so for all practical intents and purposes, the anti-sex laws were unenforceable. The only obstacles were the rules of our strict parents, not laws that were on the books. They were the only ones with the time and resources to really monitor us, therefore we worried only about our parents, not the cops.
Member #4585
07-17-17, 07:36
I respect your view that club rules are the gate keeper or cock blocker as you say, but that's not yet a fact, it is a view. If it was a fact which was universally true, none of us would be debating it.
And club rules are dependent on the law. They changed presumably, because of the change in the law. Would the club rules be changed and stay that way permanently, regardless of how the law is being enforced in the rest of the land?
In any case, these are all prognostications and your guess is as good as mine (or perhaps as you believe, better than mine). Fine. But what I will not do is ask you to change the way you communicate based on what I think will happen. But somehow your side is so convinced in the merit of your argument that you are willing to go to the mats against the other side. No one is stupid around here, and if and when people see a direct, causal link between something typed here and a bad outcome in the club, many of us would self moderate.Agreed.
Until there is a causal link as opposed to idle arm chair speculation then no need to be impolite and call other members names (you know who you are) and censor reporting that is within the bounds of the forum rules.
I know from all my visits post 1 July that the new law has never been mentioned by any girl or even club management (except before 1 July). The only people discussing the new law are German mongers who are having a laugh about it. So first hand experience.
I do hear though the future consequences as well but once again these have not happened yet since the authorities have not even got their act together. This is from locals.
Right. So despite high profile politicians pontificating, laws being debated, unenforceable fines being touted, and general fear and uncertainty being spread among Germans, BB services are still available. But a few posts on an English language board will bring the whole thing tumbling down? Really?I am aware of your views as you are posting them in several threads saying the same thing. You misrepresent part my view and ignore part of it: a few posts will not change everything. I have explained several times why I will not report in detail about illegal activities. Your campaign to get detailed reporting on this has made me even more reluctant to post as any detail will be blown out of proportion.
Anyway, anyone who read my post will see that it is almost the only first hand experience post recently and it gives a general picture. As I said I will write more when I have time.
Day Two of my field research. Two incalls in apartments and a visit to an FKK so far. It seems that for the moment I can enjoy all the services which I like.
I have not checked out any major FKKS.
I am just baffled why people insist on focusing on "laws", when "club rules" are the more immediate concern. In other words, no individual monger is being cock-blocked by the German authorities. Individual mongers are getting cock-blocked by FKK club management. If in the future, a monger does 15 sessions during a 5-day trip, and all 15 WGs tell the customer that they can only offer CBJ because it violates club rules, then the law becomes a moot point.I quote this simply because it seems blindingly obvious to me but not understood by everybody.
If a club is enforcing covered blow jobs, then we need not to "out" girls at those clubs who are breaking the club requirements.
Hessen Bub
07-17-17, 17:20
July is not even over and you've already seen open discussion make BB services disappear? And you are certain of a causal linkage? Please explain.There was a guy on July 1st coming back from the room in an FKK club in Hessen. The situation there was that there were sign with the new law, reminding girls and guests that bb services are illegal from that day. But BBBJ was available in the room, no upsell, all fine. The guy, when back at the bar, didn't have anything better to do than brag openly and loud in front of guys, girls and bar staff that he just got a BBBJ from girl xxx (he mentioned the name). Result: he and the girl had to leave the club. And BBBJ after that day until now is not available anymore, not even with very regular guests (that meaning several days per week in that specific club).
That's proof enough for me not to push our luck by posting about BBBJ. On a public board. But a lot of guys here seem to think they are more clever than others or than authorities or club management. And that they will go and enjoy BBBJ no matter how clearly they report here about it. They will be very surprised. And I couldn't care less if it only affected them. But unfortunately it affects all of us.
HB.
Hessen Bub
07-17-17, 17:23
No one is stupid around here, and if and when people see a direct, causal link between something typed here and a bad outcome in the club, many of us would self moderate.I'm not so sure about the first part. Why take the risk? Why is it so hard to self moderate and not mention BBBJ?
HB.
Hi guys,
Could somebody answer my question, please?
I am planning to go to FKK clubs in Germany in the near future.
I am afraid of STD, so I am planning to use a rubber underwear called "Penis Bermuda With Sheath."
Would girls and / or club refuse me to use that or welcome me?
There was a guy on July 1st coming back from the room in an FKK club in Hessen. The situation there was that there were sign with the new law, reminding girls and guests that bb services are illegal from that day. But BBBJ was available in the room, no upsell, all fine. The guy, when back at the bar, didn't have anything better to do than brag openly and loud in front of guys, girls and bar staff that he just got a BBBJ from girl xxx (he mentioned the name). Result: he and the girl had to leave the club. And BBBJ after that day until now is not available anymore, not even with very regular guests (that meaning several days per week in that specific club).
That's proof enough for me not to push our luck by posting about BBBJ. On a public board. But a lot of guys here seem to think they are more clever than others or than authorities or club management. And that they will go and enjoy BBBJ no matter how clearly they report here about it. They will be very surprised. And I couldn't care less if it only affected them. But unfortunately it affects all of us.
HB.Good if you could mention the name of the club.
So people are more careful.
HeyyyyyyPaul
07-17-17, 18:10
I'm not so sure about the first part. Why take the risk? Why is it so hard to self moderate and not mention BBBJ?
HB.I think alot of us non Germans really don't see how a law like this is taken seriously.
Well, now we know.
when people see a direct, causal link between something typed here and a bad outcome in the club, many of us would self moderate.A causal link can never be proven except in laboratories or in heavily controlled experiments: life is not that simplistic. Many many things contribute to a given outcome.
And even if a causal link were established then the damage will have been done. If there is widespread and publicly vaunted disregard of the law which then leads to tighter enforcement then the damage will have been done.
Personally I had expected for several years that the high profile of (then legal) AO gangbangs would lead to some sort of crackdown. For me that was a (probable) causal link.That is why when I found, soon after its opening, the first low-key AO club I reported on it, but didn't give its name: anyone interested at the time contacted me by PM
On several occasions in the past I have known of girls being thrown out of clubs because there were reports or rumours of them doing AO. Again a causal link (so far as one can ever prove).
One point often made is that there is prostitution in countries where it is illegal, with it being common knowledge, and that therefore it is right to give details (who, when, where) about illegal elements of prostitution in Germany.
This appears logical but misses one crucial thing. It is precisely because prostitution is legal and run as a relatively normal business that the clubs are concerned to preserve their hard won veneer of respectability. So reporting on illegal activities within a legal business will make the illegal activities less easy to find.
Hi guys,
Could somebody answer my question, please?
I am planning to go to FKK clubs in Germany in the near future.
I am afraid of STD, so I am planning to use a rubber underwear called "Penis Bermuda With Sheath."
Would girls and / or club refuse me to use that or welcome me?Why would you wear that? It looks much much worse than a condom, and you could only wear it once. I would suspect girls would like to see for themselves if the guy is not carrying STD's also though.
ExpatLover
07-17-17, 19:31
Good if you could mention the name of the club.
So people are more careful.I think it was FKK World.
Citizen Kane
07-17-17, 20:02
One point often made is that there is prostitution in countries where it is illegal, with it being common knowledge, and that therefore it is right to give details (who, when, where) about illegal elements of prostitution in Germany.
This appears logical but misses one crucial thing. It is precisely because prostitution is legal and run as a relatively normal business that the clubs are concerned to preserve their hard won veneer of respectability. So reporting on illegal activities within a legal business will make the illegal activities less easy to find.Precisely. The reason prostitution is legalised in any country is to control and tax it.
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