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So then why didn't people just not go to that particular club anymore?
Seems the club is hurting itself if it responds that way.
There was a guy on July 1st coming back from the room in an FKK club in Hessen. The situation there was that there were sign with the new law, reminding girls and guests that bb services are illegal from that day. But BBBJ was available in the room, no upsell, all fine. The guy, when back at the bar, didn't have anything better to do than brag openly and loud in front of guys, girls and bar staff that he just got a BBBJ from girl xxx (he mentioned the name). Result: he and the girl had to leave the club. And BBBJ after that day until now is not available anymore, not even with very regular guests (that meaning several days per week in that specific club).
That's proof enough for me not to push our luck by posting about BBBJ. On a public board. But a lot of guys here seem to think they are more clever than others or than authorities or club management. And that they will go and enjoy BBBJ no matter how clearly they report here about it. They will be very surprised. And I couldn't care less if it only affected them. But unfortunately it affects all of us.
HB.
Hessen Bub
07-17-17, 21:08
Good if you could mention the name of the club.
So people are more careful.People can be careful without the name of the club.
HB.
Good if you could mention the name of the club.
So people are more careful.Seem World and Rom staff try to be strict about law to respect, maybe they don't wish polizei come too often to control their club.
On the other hand, some clubs put information about new law, sell condoms to girls, but say girls are independent for their business.
Hi guys,
Could somebody answer my question, please?
I am planning to go to FKK clubs in Germany in the near future.
I am afraid of STD, so I am planning to use a rubber underwear called "Penis Bermuda With Sheath."
Would girls and / or club refuse me to use that or welcome me?If you are so afraid, don't go, save your money, find a real GF and use this toy with her, she will enjoy.
Member #4581
07-17-17, 23:00
I'm not so sure about the first part. Why take the risk? Why is it so hard to self moderate and not mention BBBJ?
HB.Hmm. Is that a self confession on your part? Pretty arrogant, to say the least.
As for the other question. I haven't yet posted a report after July 1. If/when I do, I will report accurately. To me, it is a lot more important to follow the law -- whatever that is (unless it is such a junky law that is very widely flouted) than to break it and then write a mealy mouthed report about it. In any case, I have some time to think about it and whether I should bother to write a report at all. All I can say is, I have never knowingly written any report to get someone else in trouble. But any report, I expect to follow the forum rules.
Member #4581
07-17-17, 23:43
Agreed.
Until there is a causal link as opposed to idle arm chair speculation then no need to be impolite and call other members names (you know who you are) and censor reporting that is within the bounds of the forum rules.
.The impoliteness (and worse) has just been unbelievable. From members who hitherto used to to be polite and nice.
-- continual references to their own intelligence and combined with casual putdowns: "stupid, don't get it, missing it, what is so hard to understand, thinking with dick, etc etc".
And their ideal world works as follows -- pretty much every monger anywhere on any forum or live in the club becomes completely self moderating. Then authorities, and their partners in enforcement, aka club managements, will look the other way and we all can have our BBBJ (or perhaps those in the know, with connections and knowing which girls do, can get it and the rest should be happy with their memories). Pretty uneasy truce of course. Per his own report, one single monger bragging in a club was able to bring it down, so how is this self moderation to be expected from the tens of thousands of mongers visiting hundreds of clubs, both experienced and novice, both introverted and loud mouthed, on this forum and every other forum out there, for now and forever?
Neurosynth
07-18-17, 00:35
There was a guy on July 1st coming back from the room in an FKK club in Hessen. The situation there was that there were sign with the new law, reminding girls and guests that bb services are illegal from that day. But BBBJ was available in the room, no upsell, all fine. The guy, when back at the bar, didn't have anything better to do than brag openly and loud in front of guys, girls and bar staff that he just got a BBBJ from girl xxx (he mentioned the name). Result: he and the girl had to leave the club. And BBBJ after that day until now is not available anymore, not even with very regular guests (that meaning several days per week in that specific club).
That's proof enough for me not to push our luck by posting about BBBJ. On a public board. But a lot of guys here seem to think they are more clever than others or than authorities or club management. And that they will go and enjoy BBBJ no matter how clearly they report here about it. They will be very surprised. And I couldn't care less if it only affected them. But unfortunately it affects all of us.
HB.Posturing this as evidence that a board post resulted in BB services going away is a bit disingenuous don't you think?
(1) No posting was involved at all. No board was involved at all. In person is different than posting. To wit.
(2) The guy was there in person shoving this in the face of the operator. There is no way they could claim to not know. There is no way they could claim it was hearsay.
(3) And if, as I predict, the operator is just trying to go through the motions to establish plausible deniability, that guy robbed them of the opportunity to do that.
Of course they had to do something in that situation. They have to keep the public area free of evidence of BB services. But they don't have to account for board posts because (from a court point of view) board posts are not reliable as evidence, and being hearsay are not even acceptable.
Neurosynth
07-18-17, 00:43
A causal link can never be proven except in laboratories or in heavily controlled experiments: life is not that simplistic. Many many things contribute to a given outcome. .Then how can you be so certain that posting will endanger BB services? By your own description it should be too complex to predict.
On several occasions in the past I have known of girls being thrown out of clubs because there were reports or rumours of them doing AO. Again a causal link (so far as one can ever prove).But AO wasn't even banned then. How could it result in being thrown out? This was, no doubt, the typical girl-to-girl backstabbing brothel politics. It wasn't about AO. It was about a cat fight.
UltraHappy
07-18-17, 02:02
I completely understand the difficulty here that no amount of foot-stamping and cajoling on the part of certain senior members will ever completely reign in explicit reporting of certain activities. There are just too many opinionated guys out there who come out on both sides of this debate.
In fairness to those who are requesting self-moderation though, I would merely observe that it is quite easy to share detailed reports here without being so EXPLICIT about certain activities. Plenty of recent examples of this creative reporting abound in the FKK threads in case anyone was searching for inspiration along these lines.
On the one hand, I can appreciate the objections of those who cry censorship -- On the other hand, is it really censorship to say, "Go ahead and share all the information you want, but kindly exercise some restraint in the explicitness of your reporting?" Rather than explicitly using certain well-understood abbreviations for example, it is easy to paint exactly the same picture but in way that the individual posts cannot be used against particular clubs or particular workers.
Take for example some of Optimist's recent posts. Everyone reading his posts understands quite well his meaning, but there is nothing in his posts that are so explicit so as to provoke the ire of those calling for judicious self-moderation. KUDOS to Optimist for his judicious reporting style. It is too bad that more do not follow his lead. I appreciate those who say, "Yeah but, we don't know for sure if such reporting will have a negative effect, so let's just plow forward until our ship wrecks in the rocks. " On the other hand, why wait until our ship is wrecked on the rocks to know whether it was smart to plow ahead? If we can all get to the same destination, but in a safer way, why not take the safer route?
I fully realize that this post is a complete waste of my time to write because it won't make a damn bit of difference in how many posters choose to share information going forward. I merely wished to temper some of ongoing discussion with some balance. That's all.
Hello everyone,
I have visited and loved my experience at FKK's (Oase, Sharks, LivingRoom, Golden Time and Acapulco). I was wondering for those who have been to FKK Land and Brazil / Colombia would you mind giving your feedback on how you'd compare the three? Setting aside cost / time to get to those locations all else equal how would you rate the following:
1) Clubs (ease of access, variety, atmosphere and amenities).
2) Optics of the Ladies.
3) Service of the Ladies.
4) Cost of the Ladies.
5) Overall expenses at the club / location (excluding airfare).
I've read some reports in both forums and I'd have to say that Brazil might be the next best if not better than FKK land due to service. Please feel free to add to my list if you feel we should compare other topics.
So then why didn't people just not go to that particular club anymore?
Seems the club is hurting itself if it responds that way.German are rule following people. They do not look the other way when they are aware of scofflaws. They also understand, don't ask, don't tell. The world does not operate based on how you think. Why not follow the local culture?
BigBuddy69
07-18-17, 05:53
If you are so afraid, don't go, save your money, find a real GF and use this toy with her, she will enjoy.It was a joke don't you get it?
Member #4585
07-18-17, 06:43
The impoliteness (and worse) has just been unbelievable. From members who hitherto used to to be polite and nice.
-- continual references to their own intelligence and combined with casual putdowns: "stupid, don't get it, missing it, what is so hard to understand, thinking with dick, etc etc".
And their ideal world works as follows -- pretty much every monger anywhere on any forum or live in the club becomes completely self moderating. Then authorities, and their partners in enforcement, aka club managements, will look the other way and we all can have our BBBJ (or perhaps those in the know, with connections and knowing which girls do, can get it and the rest should be happy with their memories). Pretty uneasy truce of course. Per his own report, one single monger bragging in a club was able to bring it down, so how is this self moderation to be expected from the tens of thousands of mongers visiting hundreds of clubs, both experienced and novice, both introverted and loud mouthed, on this forum and every other forum out there, for now and forever?I totally agree with your reasoning. Telling a few guys on a forum to moderate is a drop in the ocean when you have thousands of guys going to the clubs everyday and writing on forums all over the world.
I have also been visiting the Hessen clubs post 1 July and not a single girl has moderated their service level that I experienced.
Many of the German regulars make jokes about the new rules. They tease each other and give advice on what girls do what in the room. These Germans still remain in the club and are not kicked out.
There is even public sex and BJs going on. I hope that helps you with the genre of entertainment available.
Member #4585
07-18-17, 06:48
So then why didn't people just not go to that particular club anymore?
Seems the club is hurting itself if it responds that way.Actually amongst the German regulars that I discussed this with their opinion was that the locals and the foreigners will just stop going to the club. Actually many said that they have already stratched the club off their weekly visit schedule.
They say all this talk on ISG is hilarious when they read it.
Don't worry.
Member #4585
07-18-17, 06:53
Totally agree with these lines.
Posturing this as evidence that a board post resulted in BB services going away is a bit disingenuous don't you think?
(1) No posting was involved at all. No board was involved at all. In person is different than posting. To wit.
(2) The guy was there in person shoving this in the face of the operator. There is no way they could claim to not know. There is no way they could claim it was hearsay.
(3) And if, as I predict, the operator is just trying to go through the motions to establish plausible deniability, that guy robbed them of the opportunity to do that.
Of course they had to do something in that situation. They have to keep the public area free of evidence of BB services. But they don't have to account for board posts because (from a court point of view) board posts are not reliable as evidence, and being hearsay are not even acceptable.
Member #4585
07-18-17, 06:57
Day Two of my field research. Two incalls in apartments and a visit to an FKK so far. It seems that for the moment I can enjoy all the services which I like.
I have not checked out any major FKKS.Agreed on service levels too from my part. Major FKKs also no change in service levels so go on right ahead.
Hessen Bub
07-18-17, 07:18
But AO wasn't even banned then. How could it result in being thrown out? This was, no doubt, the typical girl-to-girl backstabbing brothel politics. It wasn't about AO. It was about a cat fight.AO was banned (by club management) in all clubs except the RTCs pre July 1st 2017. And if it became known, the girl and the guy were thrown out.
HB.
Then how can you be so certain that posting will endanger BB services? By your own description it should be too complex to predict.
But AO wasn't even banned then. How could it result in being thrown out? This was, no doubt, the typical girl-to-girl backstabbing brothel politics. It wasn't about AO. It was about a cat fight.Again you misrepresent what I said. I said it was a link so far as could be seen. I come to my conclusion on the basis of probabilities.
Your second paragraph is totally uninformed. When I see an event with my own eyes, and know the whole history, then I report it. You then tell me it was something different as that suits your purposes better: yet you have 0% of the information.
You seem totally committed to knocking anyone who has a different view to you. Other members have the same views as you but don't seem to feel the need to trash the views of those with different views.
Again, your campaign for me to "out" girls who break club rules after 1 July, and to broadcast names and details, has made me 100% resistant and more careful than ever not to report things which I believe will cause harm.
Did you predict that your campaign would in fact deter me from posting. If this is an example of your predictive abilities then maybe you are wrong about the whole subject?
Member #4581
07-18-17, 12:51
Since both sides seem to agree that our little forum here constitutes a very small fraction of the total FKK market, the self moderating proponents still have not answered the question "how do you propose to achieve self moderation beyond this forum" and "why does our discussion here impact the total market".
Surely, even HB -- great as he is, can't moderate every single monger out there, can he?
And if it is a case of "even a single case of bad reporting can break the world, so let us do our part and hope for the best" (that's an admirable sense of good Samaritan spirit no doubt), but surely that's a tad overstretched, no? When was the monger world so full of self restraining characters? This seems like a glass house perched very precariously in the middle of a million sharp pebbles with a violent storm in perpetuity.
And Optmist -- not sure who told you to provide more details or whatever, it was absolutely not me. I always said people will write what they want to write, regardless of badgering from others. My argument is the exact opposite. All commenters here are being asked to self censor, and I object because (a) I don't like being told how / what to write (b) I don't think what we write has any true impact in the end (c) I don't think EVERYONE else will self censor even if I did.
Jnpr. I didn't think you were telling me what to write, so no problem. Thanks for ensuring no misunderstanding.
Your general point that what we do here doesn't really affect what other people write elsewhere is of course true. I don't see that it reduces the argument I make that we should be circumspect in what we write in order to reduce negative consequences. Others will take their own decisions.
Your points.
A) I think this is your key point, and as a proponent of circumspect reporting, I'd like to be clear that I don't wish to tell others what to write, and just want to put forward my views.
B) As I have written before I do think that what we write has an impact, to a very marginal degree, on what happens in clubs.
C) I don't want to do something just because somebody else might do it if I don't. I'd prefer to take the chance that if I do what I think is right, then maybe others might.
I am arguing for circumspect reporting so that some idea of what is happening in clubs can be preserved in a low key way. Shouting from the rooftops about illegal activity is the best way to attract the attention of authorities. Anecdotally I have met other visitors to clubs who have told me that they will not post because of the campaign to broadcast it. In a strange way, the anti-self censorship campaign seems to be leading to even less reporting than there would have been without it.
Citizen Kane
07-18-17, 20:45
Genuine question to anyone who is more internet savvy than me;
Is there even the remotest possibility that an ISG member could be identified by the authorities via credit card payment for membership or some other method?
===============================================
Greetings,
Let me address your concerns about using a credit card to purchase a subscription.
1. Is there any danger that your credit card data might be stolen? No. Both the shopping cart service and the credit card service I use to process the credit card transactions are both conducted on secure, encrypted websites, so your credit card information is secure.
2. Is there any danger that your credit card statement will show that you've purchased a membership to this forum? No. The credit card charge will appear as "GT*isginternetsale18888890788" which is more easily explained as a regular payment to anyone who might read your credit card statement.
3. Is there any danger that a law enforcement agency might force me to divulge your forum username? No. I delete the shopping cart transaction data every few days, and that's the only connection between your credit card charge and your username. In other words, the credit card charge doesn't include your username, only the shopping cart database has this info, and I have total control over the shopping cart's database.
In addition, the forum's servers are located in Hamburg, Germany, safely outside the USA legal system, and in a country where commercial sex is legal.
4. Is there a possibility that I will take your money and disappear? No. This has been a membership website for several years, and nobody here has ever reported a single problem with using their credit card to purchase a subscription. Believe me, if there had ever been a problem, it would have been reported it here.
5. Are there any options other than using my credit card? Yes. You can purchase an anonymous, pre-loaded credit card online and at numerous retail outlets. There is also an option to purchase a subscription by mail using cash.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/ISG_Payments.php
Thanks,
Jackson
Neurosynth
07-18-17, 21:15
German are rule following people. They do not look the other way when they are aware of scofflaws. They also understand, don't ask, don't tell. The world does not operate based on how you think. Why not follow the local culture?Except the question is what will the sex workers do? Very few are Germans, most seem to be Romanian, and their cultural values are quite different and not subject to changing quickly.
BigBuddy69
07-18-17, 21:16
I'm out. At least for a while and on that topic. Probably until it's bothering me that much that I can't keep my big mouth shut.
HB.It won't be long.
Neurosynth
07-18-17, 21:18
AO was banned (by club management) in all clubs except the RTCs pre July 1st 2017. And if it became known, the girl and the guy were thrown out.
HB.I believe this to be counterfactual. For example, I've never heard of such a thing regarding Bernd's.
Neurosynth
07-18-17, 21:21
Did you predict that your campaign would in fact deter me from posting. If this is an example of your predictive abilities then maybe you are wrong about the whole subject?In the realm of board debates one doesn't post to change the mind of another poster. That can sometimes happen, but it's rare.
One posts in order to get all the arguments on the record so that third party readers somewhere in the middle can be swayed one way or the other.
Neurosynth
07-18-17, 21:24
Genuine question to anyone who is more internet savvy than me;
Is there even the remotest possibility that an ISG member could be identified by the authorities via credit card payment for membership or some other method?If you consider the NSA and CIA to be part of "the remotest possibility" I'd say yes.
Mongerer88
07-18-17, 21:37
Genuine question to anyone who is more internet savvy than me;
Is there even the remotest possibility that an ISG member could be identified by the authorities via credit card payment for membership or some other method?Basically, no. Although there is no precedent for attempts by the German government to gather evidence to prosecute someone for commercial sex transactions, since everything has in the past been legal, you might be surprised at how difficult such an endeavor is in countries where everything about a commercial sex transaction is illegal.
As others have pointed out, there are four major review boards currently operating in the United States that give tremendous detail regarding the activities that occur. The reviews for the one with a three-letter acronym requiring paid membership that focuses on ladies in the $300-$500 an hour range has reviews that are far more explicit than what is found on ISG. The owner of ISG has a sister review site for the USA Market that tends to attract reviews for ladies charging less than $200 or so per sex act. I won't get off topic and belabor the point, but there is a striking difference between the looks, services, and social class between those two extremes. The poster that suggested that some USA Providers on backpage may leave this activity to begin drawing retirement checks at age 62 tells a person what might be encountered from backpage-type providers at the lower end of the pricing scale. I know that some guys find diamonds in the rough, but there is a lot of "rough" at the lower-end of the USA Market.
But anyway, those review sites in the USA Tend to locate their servers in foreign jurisdictions that do not have information sharing arrangements with other countries, particularly when the activity being discussed is legal in the country where the information is stored. So law enforcement has a difficult time even getting information. And as others have noted, most "western" legal systems would not allow that evidence to be entered into court anyway. Someone could steal your credit card, buy a membership on a review site, and do false posts. A lot of reviews are in fact completely made up. It just isn't real "evidence". Various law enforcement agencies have tried, especially in the early days of the Internet when the ********* review site was the big dog, and law enforcement kept losing on procedural and evidentiary points, eventually just dropping its attempts to get reviews and use them as evidence. I am oversimplifying, so Google it if you want. The case was in Tampa. In fact, the technique now used by law enforcement in the USA When it attempts to bust a local review site that isn't careful with data storage is not to subpoena records but is instead to join the site and send undercover agents to meet and greets. They are then able to get real people to admit that they wrote which reviews. That is what happened to the local Seattle review board, but this was boots on the ground, face to face, police work. Not computer investigations. When Canada went to the half-legal, half illegal system, their review boards relocated offshore, so this technique seems to work.
Of course, this is paranoia. It would be shocking if Germany went to extremes to get information about the identity of posters regarding posts about an illegal component of a commercial sex act, when the other components are legal. But if the activities occurring in other countries are a guide, that would not likely occur as a result of review sites willingly giving up information on their members, nor would that information necessarily be admissible in court, anyway.
That is all separate from the issue of whether information should be posted. It is not a stretch to believe that law enforcement in the USA Uses some of the review board posts to decide whether to send undercover officers to a given massage parlor to try to make arrests or closures after the officer is solicited for sex, even though the reviews themselves are never used as evidence.
Citizen Kane
07-18-17, 22:03
Basically, no. Although there is no precedent for attempts by the German government to gather evidence ...Many thanks for the info. A very interesting and informative read.
PussyLiccker
07-18-17, 22:15
Jackson has his server somewhere outside Germany or USA and credit card payments shows up as some donation.
You notice he thought through some of this stuff with the censorship of certain terms and all.
CoolManFever
07-19-17, 00:02
Hello guys,
I am organizing a FKK bachelor party trip next year and we want to hit up a different FKK clubs every day for 5-7 days. We plan to land in Frankfurt and drive around the country by renting a car to take some nice pictures of the country side to take back home to show our wives. In the mean time, we want to hit up all the well known FKK clubs in Germany. It seems like Oase, Shark, and World are must visit around Frankfurt. What other FKK clubs are worth the drive to beside these big 3's on this forum? Also, Which redlight district can we check out in the mean time? Also, is it good idea to go to FKK around Easter weekend? Thanks guys.
Mongerer: that is exactly my thought on how they operate also. It is pure logic to do it that way. I hint about posters here who ask for news regarding BBBJ is an undercover cop.
Since both sides seem to agree that our little forum here constitutes a very small fraction of the total FKK market, the self moderating proponents still have not answered the question "how do you propose to achieve self moderation beyond this forum" and "why does our discussion here impact the total market".
How can a forum be a fraction of the FKK market? The total market of what?
There are 15000 reports in Sharks in ISG. LSH has 19000.
Aren't the other major forums removing BBBJ posts? Aside from a few rogue reports, most of the major forums have always self-moderated when it came to AO at mainstream clubs, so I suspect they are hoping that BBBJ will reach same level of self-moderation.
The redlight districts have always been CBJ. So why even bother. Germany doesn't seem to be a great tourist destination these days.
Hello guys,
I am organizing a FKK bachelor party trip next year and we want to hit up a different FKK clubs every day for 5-7 days. We plan to land in Frankfurt and drive around the country by renting a car to take some nice pictures of the country side to take back home to show our wives. In the mean time, we want to hit up all the well known FKK clubs in Germany. It seems like Oase, Shark, and World are must visit around Frankfurt. What other FKK clubs are worth the drive to beside these big 3's on this forum? Also, Which redlight district can we check out in the mean time? Also, is it good idea to go to FKK around Easter weekend? Thanks guys.
Mongerer88
07-19-17, 02:00
Mongerer: that is exactly my thought on how they operate also. It is pure logic to do it that way. I hint about posters here who ask for news regarding BBBJ is an undercover cop.You raise an interesting cultural question. I know very little about Germany.
In the USA At the upper levels of this activity, the police are kept out of the picture by screening and references. She makes sure he isn't a cop, and he knows from reviews or recommendations that she isn't a cop.
But screening is not done at the lower end of the scene, and I have noticed that fewer stings involve policewomen than what a person read about in the old days.
A long time ago when the street and hooker bar scene was prevalent, there were a lot of police women dressed up as hookers to get solicitation arrests.
Once the overall scene, even the lower-end, went indoors via technology, female decoys completely stopped. Most of the time when no screening occurs, the process of making sure neither is a cop is to do a lot of manual touching at first.
Basically, in this age of feminism and sexual harassment complaints, there is no way a police department is going to send a female police officer into a hotel room dressed in a sexy outfit, and have her get felt up by the customer, even if it is just for a few moments and another cop is hiding nearby.
When these busts happen with fake backpage-type ads, when you read the full story, the evidence is always explicit texts that were traded. When the guy enters the incall hotel room, there are male cops there to arrest him. This isn't very good evidence and the guy gets bad publicity but is allowed to plead it down to nothing. And this makes outcall even safer, because the police department is not going to send a female police officer into a hotel room disguised as a sex worker, with no backup. Sure it happens on stupid TV shows but not in real life.
I presume there is absolutely no way that the German police will make any of its female officers walk around naked at the FKK (or almost naked on lingerie day) and solicit bare back blow jobs. I know Germany is different, but it can't be that much different. That would have to irritate the female German policewomen if it occurred.
UltraHappy
07-19-17, 02:15
Jackson has his server somewhere outside Germany or USA and credit card payments shows up as some donation.
You notice he thought through some of this stuff with the censorship of certain terms and all.Sorry to disappoint you but the censorship of certain terms isn't the result of some clever foresight. Rather, it is a condition imposed on the site by the payment processors. Jackson is forced to censor those words as a condition of receiving credit card payments.
Member #4581
07-19-17, 02:36
How can a forum be a fraction of the FKK market? The total market of what?
There are 15000 reports in Sharks in ISG. LSH has 19000.
Aren't the other major forums removing BBBJ posts? Aside from a few rogue reports, most of the major forums have always self-moderated when it came to AO at mainstream clubs, so I suspect they are hoping that BBBJ will reach same level of self-moderation.15,000 reports does not make 15,000 reporters.
If your contention is that ISG writers do constitute a major fraction of the total male guest attendance at all the FKK clubs in Germany combined (I. E total market) -- fine, I will leave it there.
I never paid much attention to AO threads, so I can't agreee or disagree whether they are adequately self moderating. If you say so, I will not disagree. (I see plenty of reports in the Dietz thread, but I have never been to Dietz, and don't know if that is a mainstream club or some other kind). I also don't read any other forums, so again can't confirm or deny. I will take your word for it.
That however doesn't prove it will not happen when it comes to BBBJ. Only time will tell. And BTW, they are not rogue reports just because they have a reference to bbbj-- this is in the same vein as the gratuitous insults you guys keep throwing around -- if they confirm to forum rules, they are legitimate, rule abiding reports.
Would mongers who obtain BBBJ, against both the law of land and club rules qualify as "rogue mongers" Why not?
Member #4581
07-19-17, 02:47
How did Spitzer get busted with Ashley Dupree? I remember it was across state lines, so perhaps that's an explanation, but it was a very high end establishment, they were saying he paid thousands per hour.
thanks M88 - you sound like a true expert in this area.
In lower level prostitution in the USA the screening is done in person via having the provider take her top off and checking for microphones to make sure it is not a sting. If the FKK system were to enforce the mandatory nudity rule it would be helpful for hobbyists.
You raise an interesting cultural question. I know very little about Germany.
In the USA At the upper levels of this activity, the police are kept out of the picture by screening and references. She makes sure he isn't a cop, and he knows from reviews or recommendations that she isn't a cop.
But screening is not done at the lower end of the scene, and I have noticed that fewer stings involve policewomen than what a person read about in the old days.
A long time ago when the street and hooker bar scene was prevalent, there were a lot of police women dressed up as hookers to get solicitation arrests.
Once the overall scene, even the lower-end, went indoors via technology, female decoys completely stopped. Most of the time when no screening occurs, the process of making sure neither is a cop is to do a lot of manual touching at first.
Basically, in this age of feminism and sexual harassment complaints, there is no way a police department is going to send a female police officer into a hotel room dressed in a sexy outfit, and have her get felt up by the customer, even if it is just for a few moments and another cop is hiding nearby..
Mongerer88
07-19-17, 03:04
How did Spitzer get busted with Ashley Dupree? I remember it was across state lines, so perhaps that's an explanation, but it was a very high end establishment, they were saying he paid thousands per hour.
thanks M88 - you sound like a true expert in this area.He was too high-end.
He made large transfers as advance deposits to the agency. Withdrew huge amounts of cash, bought money orders with the cash, made wire transfers, etc.
The banks did a certain type of paperwork to the federal government mostly because he was a politician and there was an assumption that he was being blackmailed or extorted. When the investigation showed the payments were to an escort agency, it mushroomed.
Had he just brought cash to the room like the rest of the johns, it would have been okay. It would have been better if he spent a little bit less to minimize the need for cash, too. He was really spending a lot and buying blocks of time with his favorite when he travelled. And those financial reports would not likely have been filed if it had been anyone else making the transfers. The agency operated for a long time with no problems before he came along, with all of his enemies watching him. And that agency was exceptionally expensive, so a guy had to access a lot of cash. So it isn't really a good comparison to the high-end scene, which usually involves an independent escort operating by herself at lower prices than Spitzer paid.
And strictly speaking, I don't think that Spitzer was charged with any crimes, he just lost his job. And none of the ordinary workers were charged to the best of my recollection, including Ashley. The owners of the agency lost their assets and served time. Ashley married a rich guy and now has an amazingly boring Twitter account where she talks nonstop about the activities of her children. Spitzer probably even stopped following her under an assumed name on Twitter out of boredom.
But agencies are a risk, particularly if the ladies cross state lines, because the federal government can get involved and if loves to seize assets. Independent escorts who screen are the safest; there just aren't arrests. Spitzer probably knows that now.
UltraHappy
07-19-17, 03:08
I presume there is absolutely no way that the German police will make any of its female officers walk around naked at the FKK. That would have to irritate the female German policewomen if it occurred.This breaking news is going to really disappoint Mr. Ho. It's his life long dream to get a blow job from a German policewoman.
Not just a BJ it would have to be an uncovered BJ in order to meet the statutory requirements! Preferably with finish in mouth in order to show conclusive evidence of criminal intent.
This breaking news is going to really disappoint Mr. Ho. It's his life long dream to get a blow job from a German policewoman.
Hessen Bub
07-19-17, 06:54
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Hessen Bub
07-19-17, 06:55
I believe this to be counterfactual. For example, I've never heard of such a thing regarding Bernd's.It's not. Bernd's had AO unofficially on the menu.
HB.
Citizen Kane
07-19-17, 07:05
He was too high-end.He didn't even sleep in his car overnight.
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Hello guys,
I am organizing a FKK bachelor party trip next year and we want to hit up a different FKK clubs every day for 5-7 days. We plan to land in Frankfurt and drive around the country by renting a car to take some nice pictures of the country side to take back home to show our wives. In the mean time, we want to hit up all the well known FKK clubs in Germany. It seems like Oase, Shark, and World are must visit around Frankfurt. What other FKK clubs are worth the drive to beside these big 3's on this forum? Also, Which redlight district can we check out in the mean time? Also, is it good idea to go to FKK around Easter weekend? Thanks guys.I wouldn't say World is a must visit club. It is a nice place, but not at the same level as Oase and Sharks. Reports are somewhat mediocre to low at world as well. (I've not been there in ages). For April Palace is a better place. And if you hit their Easter party for example. I'd rather check out Mainhatten than going world. But with 6 days, then 3 days in Hessen and 3 in NRW might be the best. In NRW you have GT, LR, oceans, Aca, Samya etc.
But April is 9 months away, so different clubs might be better then. Perhaps Sixsense and Yinyang just across the Dutch border are great options at the time considering the German new laws.
Mongerer: I once met a guy from Amnesty International at Artemis. Why wouldn't they go to the clubs would seem much weirder than if they went there.
Sorry to disappoint you but the censorship of certain terms isn't the result of some clever foresight. Rather, it is a condition imposed on the site by the payment processors. Jackson is forced to censor those words as a condition of receiving credit card payments.Then why is it that plenty of other sites don't censor in the same way, and yet, they most certainly can receive and have credit card payments processed? I know because I am a member of those sites. Is it perhaps dependent on which company with which requirements is doing the processing?
ExpatLover
07-19-17, 18:29
Hello guys,
I am organizing a FKK bachelor party trip next year and we want to hit up a different FKK clubs every day for 5-7 days. We plan to land in Frankfurt and drive around the country by renting a car to take some nice pictures of the country side to take back home to show our wives. In the mean time, we want to hit up all the well known FKK clubs in Germany. It seems like Oase, Shark, and World are must visit around Frankfurt. What other FKK clubs are worth the drive to beside these big 3's on this forum? Also, Which redlight district can we check out in the mean time? Also, is it good idea to go to FKK around Easter weekend? Thanks guys.To make it easy, Eastern is not a good time, some girls will go home. RLD in Frankfurt no need to go there, it is better to go to a cheap entry club like ROM. World is not a must go due to strong decrease in the LU.
After my three day tour I'd like to reassure anyone wondering whether to visit Germany any more or not that, for the time being at least, it is worth visiting. I went to Sharks, Dietzenbach, La Luna, Darmstadt streetwalkers, and apartments in Duisburg, Koblenz, and Hanau.
Obviously this doesn't cover everything, but speaking to other members, it seems that my experiences were typical.
I am going to indulge myself and list the highlights
1. DATY with a Darmstadt streetwalker who produced more fluid than anyone I've known, and was amongst the most beautiful girls I've ever met. Fortunately she didn't know how much I liked her
2 My visit to La Luna for beautiful Vanessa and out of this world service Kathi
3 Betty at Sharks (be warned, difficult for new customers to break)
4 Meeting a fellow isg member on a seven week visit who was full of ideas
15,000 reports does not make 15,000 reporters.
I'd contend that the 20-30 most prominent posters here influence the actions of thousands of readers. My first FKK trip was 2009. I picked Oase simply because it had the most ISG reports. From 2009-2013, I would sometimes go months without reading ISG. If I planned to visit a particular club on Saturday, I'd visit that club's thread, starting at the previous Saturday and would read until I was current. This meant that I read probably less than one percent of the total ISG reports. As such, I only processed info that was "trending" or repeated ad nauseam. And then I did a keyword search for "big tits", haha. Together those three things, would guide my decision on whether I should attend the originally planned club. If I were a club manager that was afraid of the authorities, the sheer volume and frequency of ISG reports would make it worth a quick, cursory look. As a club manager, I'd probably come on ISG once every six months. Spend ten seconds to do a keyword search for "BBBJ" and another five minutes to review the results. Based on that review, it might compel me to some further action.
Would mongers who obtain BBBJ, against both the law of land and club rules qualify as "rogue mongers" Why not?I thought "rogue" was a synonym for "non-conformist". Communities, even online ones, have norms. For instance, I noticed that when two ISG posters hang out at the club together, they won't reference knowing each other on the forum. They are convinced that if others know their ISG handle, it will lead to "trouble". I may be skeptical. I may think they are over-reacting and their fear is irrational, but what I think is irrelevant. They were nothing but friendly to me, so I will respect their wishes. The clubs and WGs seem to want BBBJ offerings not to be publicized. I will respect their wishes, especially the ones that treated me well. Please don't try to read into this further. I am NOT saying that people who have a different opinion are by extension, "disrespectful". Even if I did say that, who cares. I am just a loser on the Internet.
BTW off-topic, in the past, I have stated that forums have minimal impact on most WG's business. Allow me to clarify. Most readers probably will only remember the most mentioned superstars, and the most mentioned scammers. If some Sharks WG, only had five or so mentions as being a scammer, that will probably only be seen by the most religious of ISG readers. For the other 99% of readers, it will get lost in all the noise, like this bullshit post. So it will have probably have zero impact on the offending WG's future business.
McAdonis. As usual, interesting points. As you say, very little of what we write is useful given the sheer volume of hot air (to which I am now adding).
I really believe that we each need to find our own way, just noting the odd bad apple or star. For 99% of the time the "stars" don't suit me. In 15 years the only stars which worked for me were Andrea / Nina (WorldArtemis) Lisa (World) and Roxana/Jennifer/Celine (World / Goldentime) and Kathi and Miruna (La Luna) Five out of hundreds. I'd encourage all new members to take a chance, pick clubs at random (having quickly read the threads), and go by their instincts.
As you say, beware what is trending. Usually by the time a club is clearly trending it is past its peak. Best to search out clubs before they trend. Like I had the good luck to discover a brief peak at Finca last year, and started a brief trend: but by the time it was noticeable the club was already ebbing. Or with Andrea many years ago, I sparked her enormous popularity ( there were fewer clubs, girls, and posts then) and then she became overbooked, so getting her was difficult
In my post of a couple of hours ago, I list my current top sessions. Anyone who takes that too seriously is likely to be disappointed: it just reflects my agenda in life.At most it will raise some possibilities
Cheers
Optimist: Yes my tastes are too different, so I am not sure if I have sampled many superstars. Generally, I don't have to wait more than an hour for my WGs to emerge from the room.
By trends, I mean things like knowing about an upcoming party I need to avoid. WGs on holiday. Low male customer turnout. That's really the only time WGs are genuinely happy to see my cheap charlie ass.
Please don't try to read into this further. I am NOT saying that people who have a different opinion are by extension, "disrespectful". Even if I did say that, who cares. I am just a loser on the Internet.We write behind fictional avatar names, and not our own names. Therefore we do not simply advocate our own interests, agenda or ideas, but we take a stand as opinnion leaders (voicing an opinion somewhere out there) in theoretical discussions on a discussion board.
Some forumers on some forums go to great lengths discussing between their own 10 different virtual nicknames just to create fuzz and hype around certain topics or agendas. Especially well known in stock exchange forums. A loser there might be the wealthiest guy also.
Member #4581
07-19-17, 22:51
I presume there is absolutely no way that the German police will make any of its female officers walk around naked at the FKK (or almost naked on lingerie day) and solicit bare back blow jobs. I know Germany is different, but it can't be that much different. That would have to irritate the female German policewomen if it occurred.It's more than just walking around nude. A guy doesn't have to do feeling up, blow job and fucking in that order. If a guy were to fuck and then want the BBBJ, the policewoman would have to first get fucked, before busting the guy.
And there is no guarantee that every guy would request BBBJ. What if a bunch of guys take her to fuck in the ass with a condom? Quite legal. She would have to take it up, and wait and wait until she catches that one rule breaker. Her cover would not last long if she walked out at the first mention of sex w / o blowjob.
Far easier for the police to enlist an existing hooker as an entrapment agent (if that is their gig), than to send a regular police woman to do this. I think the chance of this is in any case too small to bother.
Jnpr: what if some of us want to hold onto our coptical illusion? The one of Monica LeRimsky, the eloquent German copsucker steeping our teabags while we start fishing for brown trout? Mother natures natural organic way. It doesn't matter what cover she brings, we will trust her deeply anyway. Something like that.
Mongerer88
07-19-17, 23:34
Far easier for the police to enlist an existing hooker as an entrapment agent (if that is their gig), than to send a regular police woman to do this. I think the chance of this is in any case too small to bother.I know that Germany is more liberated than other countries, but I doubt that could ever happen.
The worldwide Yahoo News headlines would be The German Police Pimp Out Poor Romanian Girl Barely Out Of Her Teens.
The story would be an embarrassment to the German Police. Most would not understand the context.
I know that Germany is more liberated than other countries, but I doubt that could ever happen.
The worldwide Yahoo News headlines would be The German Police Pimp Out Poor Romanian Girl Barely Out Of Her Teens.
The story would be an embarrassment to the German Police. Most would not understand the context.That would be great!
If they did do that, every man would want to join the German police force. Their job would be to go try out all the hookers in Germany to see if they are a "good fit" for the force. I'll do that job for free. Trying out new hookers everyday and catching all the rebel BBBJ lovers! LOL!
Neurosynth
07-20-17, 02:19
The redlight districts have always been CBJ. So why even bother. Germany doesn't seem to be a great tourist destination these days.Folks here should know better than this by now. Sure, the default case was CBJ. But BBBJ was available with a little detective work. Even (shock!) BBFS was available from some, although they might deny it to the random visitor.
But going to an FKK was an easier way for sure to find BBBJ. And the RTC clubs were the easiest (not only) places to find BBFS. Both are still available although a bit more restricted.
Neurosynth
07-20-17, 02:44
AO was banned (by club management) in all clubs except the RTCs pre July 1st 2017. And if it became known, the girl and the guy were thrown out.
HB..
I believe this to be counterfactual. For example, I've never heard of such a thing regarding Bernd's.
It's not. Bernd's had AO unofficially on the menu.
HB.I can't make sense of what you are saying.
Bernd's is not an RTC club. If you say AO was unofficially on the menu, then AO was in fact not banned in this non-RTC club.
So by example your claim that AO was banned in "all clubs except the RTCs" isn't true.
(By the way Bernd's was just an example. In fact I don't recall BBFS being mentioned as "banned" at *any* club (outside of Bavaria)).
I can't make sense of what you are saying.
Bernd's is not an RTC club. If you say AO was unofficially on the menu, then AO was in fact not banned in this non-RTC club.
So by example your claim that AO was banned in "all clubs except the RTCs" isn't true.
(By the way Bernd's was just an example. In fact I don't recall BBFS being mentioned as "banned" at *any* club (outside of Bavaria)).Some girls were fired from some big clubs after being said to provide BBFS, now it s illegal even in ex AO clubs. Bernds was said to be a normal club where quite easy to find BBFS, many Bulgarians are used to.
About writings, usually police is able to find computer or phone which sent.
KC Questor
07-20-17, 04:34
Can you explain what exactly an RTC is? I did a search and found a description (on another site) that suggested it was just one of the lower class FKKs. They said it was a joke because Rote Teppich means red carpet and these clubs were less than red carpet treatment. What makes a club an RTC?
That report listed the following clubs as "RTC":
Villa Romantika in Recklingshausen
Grimberg Sauna in Gelsenkirchen
Arabella in Bochum
Villa Venus in Duisburg
Freudenberg 39 in Bochum
Club laluna in Moers
Verena in Dortmund
M exclusiv in Munster and Buldern
No mention of Luderland or Annabella (sister clubs to some of the above) or Dietzenbach (which I've seen listed as an RTC).
UltraHappy
07-20-17, 04:54
Then why is it that plenty of other sites don't censor in the same way, and yet, they most certainly can receive and have credit card payments processed? I know because I am a member of those sites. Is it perhaps dependent on which company with which requirements is doing the processing?You can find Jackson's explanation here: http://isgprohibitedwords.info/.
Just scroll down to the bottom of the censored words list and read his explanation that begins with "Commercial Censorship. ".
I think those are those flat rate clubs and I think that "flat rate" is banned also along with BBBJ. Also I believe that alles ohne (condom) was focused on at these establishments. Germany has I think only 25% of the HIV cases that the USA has per capita so they used to be able to get away with this due to low infection risks there, but this could be the reason the new law was made. Although the new law went awry when it swept the BBBJ into the overboard condom regulations. I think everyone could get behind a condom regulation for anal and vaginal sex. A limited version if the law were amended.
Can you explain what exactly an RTC is? I did a search and found a description (on another site) that suggested it was just one of the lower class FKKs. They said it was a joke because Rote Teppich means red carpet and these clubs were less than red carpet treatment. What makes a club an RTC?
That report listed the following clubs as "RTC":
Villa Romantika in Recklingshausen
Grimberg Sauna in Gelsenkirchen
Arabella in Bochum
Villa Venus in Duisburg
Freudenberg 39 in Bochum
Club laluna in Moers
Verena in Dortmund
M exclusiv in Munster and Buldern
No mention of Luderland or Annabella (sister clubs to some of the above) or Dietzenbach (which I've seen listed as an RTC).
KC. Try were clubs with cheap entry, no food, poor surroundings, where girls each sat on an allocated sofa. Too dark to see the dingy red carpets. The girls were generally less attractive than in the big clubs, although nowadays this is not quite so stark. The service in these clubs used to be reliably better than in some of the big clubs but no longer so.
Their unique selling point was Alles Ohne. Of course it is now illegal for this to be advertised or promoted by the clubs.
So, I encourage everybody to make their own way and see what they find. I visited two recently as I have reported in the appropriate threads.
Yes all the clubs you mentioned are rtc.
Hessen Bub
07-20-17, 09:10
I can't make sense of what you are saying.
Bernd's is not an RTC club. If you say AO was unofficially on the menu, then AO was in fact not banned in this non-RTC club.
So by example your claim that AO was banned in "all clubs except the RTCs" isn't true.
(By the way Bernd's was just an example. In fact I don't recall BBFS being mentioned as "banned" at *any* club (outside of Bavaria)).Then you just don't know the German FKK club scene.
HB.
KC.
Just a bit further clarification.
Flat rate clubs were never included in the meaning of red carpet clubs (rote teppich club).
Annabella and Luderland and Dietzenbach are rtc as well as those in your main list. I would question La Luna: it has traditionally been seen as a bit apart, with its higher pricing, but I would now include it.
Alles Ohne was available officially and even publicly in all these clubs, unlike other Saunaclubs/FKKS where girls who practised it were refused further club entry (apart from Bernds)
I hope this and my previous post make it clear
Visit one and then you'll know for yourself
Cheers
BigBuddy69
07-20-17, 19:46
As everyone is talking about Bernds, on the advertising left of this page, BBBJ is still mentioned.
UltraHappy
07-20-17, 20:19
As everyone is talking about Bernds, on the advertising left of this page, BBBJ is still mentioned.I'm fairly certain that the abbreviation, "BBBJ" stands for "Big Booty Bitches Jiving. ".
Either that or "Big Blue Blob Jelly. ".
Yes, definitely one of those.
Neurosynth
07-20-17, 21:51
Then you just don't know the German FKK club scene.
HB.I can at least construct a contradiction-free statement. You both claimed that no non-RTC clubs allowed AO and that Bernd's, a non-RTC club, allowed AO. Try to make sense of that rather than puffing up your claimed authority.
So now that the new law seems to attack RTC clubs more than any other segment of the industry, where do you think its customers will end up? Upmarket? (top FKK's) Or downmarket? (RLD's).
Neurosynth
07-20-17, 22:07
I've been told the term came from the ubiquitous red on red decoration scheme commonly found at these clubs.
It's my impression that there are two ways to use the term. The tighter circle is a set of clubs that seem to be owned by the same people given the same girls will be found rotating through them. They also share common pricing (more or less), the default expectation (with the occasional exception that should self-identify) of AO services, and other little things like using the same products.
But there is a wider circle that doesn't necessarily imply common owners, merely a similar business model. I suspect that La Luna is outside of the tighter commonly owned RTC circle. Less clear to me is Dietzenbach which has a similar business model, but doesn't seem to use the same pool of girls.
This is, however, all based on observation and inference. I've yet to speak to someone who has certainty about who owns the clubs. Perhaps under the new laws one could find out by accessing the licensing records.
Neurosynth
07-20-17, 22:14
I've made this joke because one of the common products at the RTCs are these almost toy-like self-serve coke machines that fill small glasses about 3/4 of the way.
I've heard a similar joke that's much less charitable to the customers.
(Dietzenbach also uses one of these tiny coke machines. Does that indicate common ownership with other RTC's, or did they just copy it? Dunno.).
Member #4585
07-20-17, 22:17
I think those are those flat rate clubs and I think that "flat rate" is banned also along with BBBJ. Also I believe that alles ohne (condom) was focused on at these establishments. Germany has I think only 25% of the HIV cases that the USA has per capita so they used to be able to get away with this due to low infection risks there, but this could be the reason the new law was made. Although the new law went awry when it swept the BBBJ into the overboard condom regulations. I think everyone could get behind a condom regulation for anal and vaginal sex. A limited version if the law were amended.DrPoon,
Since you have a medical pedigree. Does the new law effective 1 July mean that German porno sites like MyDirtyHobby mean that the actors need to wear condoms as well in their films, or are they excluded since they are not performing prostitution but acting in a film and as such exempt?
Following that theme, if I say to my girl in the FKK that I am hiring her to make a movie for my next major motion feature film and that we are going to be the actors in one scene, does that in any way change the activity involved to another state?
Just musings that I have had for a long time, scared that MyDirtyHobby website films will all become with condom only sex clips. So sad if it does. I will just buy American then.
Member #4585
07-20-17, 22:22
So now that the new law seems to attack RTC clubs more than any other segment of the industry, where do you think its customers will end up? Upmarket? (top FKK's) Or downmarket? (RLD's).Many times you see the same customers in RTC or AO clubs as are in the mainstream FKK clubs. It is already the same customer base.
These mature German men go to the RTC style club in the morning, do some girls to get cheap thrills, then go to the mainstream club with all the amenities to relax, use spa facilities, drink and eat and talk with friends until they have had their fill.
What a life.
The Germans that I speak to all claim that they use condom even before 1 July. They say that one would be mad not to be using condom for this hobby. So no change then post 1 July.
Good question. Well the question would have to be answered by a German court if the person was prosecuted for the condom law violation. But based on American cases, the California Supreme court held that porn was not considered prostitution. In other states besides California, porn could be considered prostitution but not necessarily. Also buying American porn could be problematic because Los Angeles County where most porn was produced enacted a condom law requiring a condom for regular and anal sex but not oral sex. These days all non condom porn would have to be produced outside Los Angeles County at least.
DrPoon,
Since you have a medical pedigree. Does the new law effective 1 July mean that German porno sites like MyDirtyHobby mean that the actors need to wear condoms as well in their films, or are they excluded since they are not performing prostitution but acting in a film and as such exempt?
Following that theme, if I say to my girl in the FKK that I am hiring her to make a movie for my next major motion feature film and that we are going to be the actors in one scene, does that in any way change the activity involved to another state?
Just musings that I have had for a long time, scared that MyDirtyHobby website films will all become with condom only sex clips. So sad if it does. I will just buy American then.
So now that the new law seems to attack RTC clubs more than any other segment of the industry, where do you think its customers will end up? Upmarket? (top FKK's) Or downmarket? (RLD's).Not just FKK and RTC. The hardcore German mongers have always diversified their P6 investments. If an ex-FKK WG ends up working apartments or RLD, usually someone on the German-forum FKK threads will let everybody else know. That suggests they are scouting everywhere.
Polyamorist
07-21-17, 00:41
KC. Try were clubs with cheap entry, no food, poor surroundings, where girls each sat on an allocated sofa. Too dark to see the dingy red carpets. The girls were generally less attractive than in the big clubs, although nowadays this is not quite so stark. The service in these clubs used to be reliably better than in some of the big clubs but no longer so.Some say you get better service downmarket, some say you get better service upmarket. My own experience is that it's a throw of the dice no matter what price you're paying.
What distinguished the attitudes of RTC girls from the attitudes of girls in a large FKK? Well here's one thing. Some of the RTC girls seemed so uncommunicative and lacking in drive that you felt they could not have got there off their own steam, but must have been placed there by a pimp. By contrast in a large FKK you can see even the sharks have enough go-getting spirit to be (at least potentially) independent.
Polyamorist. I see what you're saying as on first appearances the environment in RTC clubs is dead. I'm not sure you come to the right conclusion though. Many a discussion I've had about how come certain girls in mainstream FKKs don't ever seen to want to earn any money. One consensus has been that this small minority have no incentive to earn.
In RTC clubs the girls have a strict no approach policy and many of them have little English and sometimes little German. This may make them seem uncommunicative and lacking in drive. That this is your impression doesn't mean they are placed there by a pimp: if you believe this presumably a you don't go to such clubs? I guess that's why I can't find any reports I from you sending these clubs. That may be why you haven't seen the girls chatting,, laughing, teasing customers, arguing and so on. Personally I find girls in rtcs more communicative than Sharks girls. And if you speak Romanian then you will find them more communicative as it overcomes the no English issue often found.
As for getting there under their own steam, I am sure 99% of girls get some help. They need to know about which club is safe for them, find somewhere to stay, and be given money for the fare, initial costs such as rent and entry. This kind of support does not make the relationship that of pimp and victim, but can be much more complex.
Not just FKK and RTC. The hardcore German mongers have always diversified their P6 investments. If an ex-FKK WG ends up working apartments or RLD, usually someone on the German-forum FKK threads will let everybody else know. That suggests they are scouting everywhere.OK (and this one goes to Bitumen also), but to put my question a bit different, would the number of rooms at the FKK's increase with the RTC's getting the shortest end of the stick? Or at least even out the potential negative effect it presumably seems to be getting on the tourist market?
KC Questor
07-21-17, 05:14
Annabella and Luderland and Dietzenbach are rtc as well as those in your main list. I would question La Luna: it has traditionally been seen as a bit apart, with its higher pricing, but I would now include it.
Alles Ohne was available officially and even publicly in all these clubs, unlike other Saunaclubs/FKKS where girls who practised it were refused further club entry (apart from Bernds)
I hope this and my previous post make it clearThanks. From your response and others it is as clear as I can expect. I am still a bit puzzled how some people can definitively declare a club to not be an RTC (or to be one) if it is that subjective, but everyone has their own opinions.
Visit one and then you'll know for yourselfOh I will. The question was just whether or not I wanted to drive all the way to Duisberg or Bochum (from Frankfurt) just to experience a "true RTC" or if I could stick with Annabella and Bernd's which are both much closer to my hotel. With only 3 1/2 days in Frankfurt I have to make the most of my time. Thanks to you and to everyone who answered me.
Christian G
07-21-17, 08:26
Oh I will. The question was just whether or not I wanted to drive all the way to Duisberg or Bochum (from Frankfurt) just to experience a "true RTC" or if I could stick with Annabella and Bernd's which are both much closer to my hotel. With only 3 1/2 days in Frankfurt I have to make the most of my time. Thanks to you and to everyone who answered me.If you are in Frankfurt why you not try Dietzenbach first? Is an RTC!
KC. Yes it is subjective. There is no authority to give an official list :)
If you have only a short time then definitely Christian is right: go to Dietzenbach and save a five hour round trip to Venus etc.
Don't bother with Annabella, which has a tiny tiny lineup
Polyamorist
07-21-17, 10:50
Many a discussion I've had about how come certain girls in mainstream FKKs don't ever seen to want to earn any money. One consensus has been that this small minority have no incentive to earn.
Why wouldn't they have an incentive to earn? What are they there for?
Why wouldn't they have an incentive to earn? What are they there for?Sorry, I was not clear. In some clubs there are quite a few girls who send to be making a determined effort to just do a very few rooms. My guess is that they have a very low earnings target (maybe a net income after costs of 50 euros) , either because that is still a good wage by Romanian standards, or because they have to hand over so high a proportion of their earning to their lover boy, that they have little incentive. I'm sure such girls don't enjoy the sex with customers. Of course, all speculation. And in some clubs (Sharks. GT, LR, Acapulco, to name just a few) this phenomenon is almost nonexistentent.
Cheers.
Polyamorist
07-21-17, 15:00
Sorry, I was not clear. In some clubs there are quite a few girls who send to be making a determined effort to just do a very few rooms. Agreed. And if they happen to be the prettiest girls in the club, that makes things very frustrating for punters and really spoils the atmosphere.
My guess is that they have a very low earnings target (maybe a net income after costs of 50 euros) , either because that is still a good wage by Romanian standards,
And this is why I had to laugh when the guys on the Sharks thread wanted to raise the half-hourly rate from 50 to 60 euros. If the girls are so money-oriented, why aren't they trying to earn money?
or because they have to hand over so high a proportion of their earning to their lover boy, that they have little incentive.
Now this is the really scary possibility to me: that an external force is messing with the incentives of the girls and the game is quite different from what we are led to believe.
I mean, if a girl comes in with the name of her pimp emblazoned on her, what are the odds she is on a fixed wage? This is the kind of thing FKKs should crack down on before the government uses it as an excuse for further interference.
Of course, all speculation.
Yep, millions of hours of monger experience on this board and still nobody knows how the girls are really managed.
And in some clubs (Sharks. GT, LR, Acapulco, to name just a few) this phenomenon is almost nonexistentent.This is where I totally disagree. I have observed the phenomenon in practically all FKKs.
This is where I totally disagree. I have observed the phenomenon in practically all FKKs.You have probably been more observant than me!
Horny Harry
07-21-17, 16:41
Agreed. And if they happen to be the prettiest girls in the club, that makes things very frustrating for punters and really spoils the atmosphere.Steffi at Sharks seems to fall into this category. Pretty as she is, she just sits at the bar with a towel wrapped around her.
Member #4581
07-21-17, 18:42
Not incented to earn.
In real world, we would call them lazy. Or not capable.
They are all around us. Where we work, live; among friends. They are frustrating in real life, and are frustrating in the club if they happen to be girls you take a fancy to, but they sit there yakking away with gal pals.
What about the demographics of Romania? Isn't that country suffering because a large portion of its female population has left and then left the men in Romania without enough women? It seems Germany has a large surplus of women traveling to it at least and then that would require other countries to have a deficit of women.
Agreed. And if they happen to be the prettiest girls in the club, that makes things very frustrating for punters and really spoils the atmosphere.
And this is why I had to laugh when the guys on the Sharks thread wanted to raise the half-hourly rate from 50 to 60 euros. If the girls are so money-oriented, why aren't they trying to earn money?
Now this is the really scary possibility to me: that an external force is messing with the incentives of the girls and the game is quite different from what we are led to believe.
I mean, if a girl comes in with the name of her pimp emblazoned on her, what are the odds she is on a fixed wage? This is the kind of thing FKKs should crack down on before the government uses it as an excuse for further interference.
Yep, millions of hours of monger experience on this board and still nobody knows how the girls are really managed.
This is where I totally disagree. I have observed the phenomenon in practically all FKKs.
DarkNumber
07-21-17, 19:04
If you are in Frankfurt why you not try Dietzenbach first? Is an RTC!What is an RTC?
ExpatLover
07-21-17, 19:59
If you are in Frankfurt why you not try Dietzenbach first? Is an RTC!If you are not a experienced guys in the FKK scene I don t advise you to go there except erotic is not important for you and just having sex is the key.
Vito Corleone
07-21-17, 20:21
What is an RTC?It's a special code word for BBBJ.
Does the new law effective 1 July mean that German porno sites like MyDirtyHobby mean that the actors need to wear condoms as well in their films, or are they excluded since they are not performing prostitution but acting in a film and as such exempt?
Following that theme, if I say to my girl in the FKK that I am hiring her to make a movie for my next major motion feature film and that we are going to be the actors in one scene, does that in any way change the activity involved to another state?
This has been asked and answered here before. No, the new law doesn't require condoms in porn. And no, you can't get around it by claiming you are making a porn movie.
What is an RTC?A red carpet club. I've never been to one, but I can imagine what it looks like inside.
What is an RTC?If you were to spend less than one minute scrolling down this very thread you would find the answer.
Yep, millions of hours of monger experience on this board and still nobody knows how the girls are really managed.
This is where I totally disagree. I have observed the phenomenon in practically all FKKs.What makes you think nobody here knows? Just because not everyone talks about everything? Most likely only assumptions. But these can be strong assumptions too. What we know is that many girls are getting picked up by loverboys / pimps etc after work. And we assume they need initial help to get from poor village country and into the FKK scene in the first place. What I know from the Chinese scene in Macau is that in order for the girls there to get out of the pimp contracts (initial money paid to there parents, and also for travel, room and contacts) were 100 000 Chinese yuan. Some girls who didn't like it said they only would stay there until they had paid it of. Now it seems every country in the whole world has its own ways of how this works. But like investment bankers and microlenders, there are logical reasons for 'agents' to operate in this industry also. Sadly these 'agents' do overcharge in most countries, make terrible contracts that screws over young inexperienced girls, and because everything is illegal, they go to great lengths of hiding every step of the way.
And then the feminists who claim they know everything best for the girls come in shoving it deeper below ground. Making contracts even worse for the poor girls because the risk factor goes up, and nothing is controlled.
KC Questor
07-22-17, 05:22
What is an RTC?The answer to your question is literally one and two pages down.
If you are in Frankfurt why you not try Dietzenbach first? Is an RTC!
If you have only a short time then definitely Christian is right: go to Dietzenbach and save a five hour round trip to Venus etc.I definitely plan to go to Dietzenbach. But I plan to visit Cologne & Bonn anyway so wanted to have options.
Don't bother with Annabella, which has a tiny tiny lineupTHAT'S helpful, thanks! I'll probably try Luderland, and I want to check out Pascha just to see it. The other three days will include Dietzenbach, Oase, Mainhatten, and Sharks.
Don't want to interfere but Luderland has been getting really bad reports for some time on German forums.
If you are going to Koln Bonn from Frankfurt you might do much better to drop by Finca in DierdorfIt has a variable lineup but can be great. Usually up to 25 to 30 girls, with a handful of really nice looking ones. Look at the thread for more info.
Good luck.
Polyamorist
07-22-17, 12:54
And then the feminists who claim they know everything best for the girls come in shoving it deeper below ground. Making contracts even worse for the poor girls because the risk factor goes up, and nothing is controlled.
Salaam Pistons. I absolutely agree. The government says the FKKs can't exert any control over the girls because then the girls wouldn't be independent. But most girls can't work in a vacuum. If the FKKs don't set the rules, then somebody much worse will, for example Romanian pimp gangs. What if a girl has no accommodation? What if she can't understand all the new registration forms?
FKKs should be allowed a reasonable degree of autonomy and the ability to make their own House Rules: e. G. No pimp tattoos, no cheating the customers, etc. And they should not be prevented from helping out the girls with the basics. If an FKK has bad rules, girls won't go there and customers won't go there. If an FKK has good rules, it will prosper.
Member #4581
07-22-17, 13:23
Investment bankers, microlenders and pimps all have similar raisin the'etre.....
Nice touch. I don't know which of them is more insulted at being compared to the others. LOL.
Mongerer88
07-22-17, 13:54
Investment bankers, microlenders and pimps all have similar raisin the'etre.....
Nice touch. I don't know which of them is more insulted at being compared to the others. LOL.Funny. I have always thought this is the perfect industry for microlending. It would help sex workers in poor countries have the resources to travel to a wealthier country to work and earn far more in a safer environment.
And it would allow ladies at many large incall brothels and agencies with an entrepreneurial streak to get an incall place of her own (or the ability to share a trick pad), good advertising and a web site, and better technology to make appointments and screen her customers to the extent possible.
Those miscroloans usually have little or no interest and are made by people genuinely wanting to help others get a leg up (two legs up in the case of sex workers).
Most of the world would have a shit hemorrhage if that happened, which is why it won't. So exploitation will continue to occur.
UltraHappy
07-22-17, 15:49
Funny. I have always thought this is the perfect industry for microlending. It would help sex workers in poor countries have the resources to travel to a wealthier country to work and earn far more in a safer environment.
The correct technical term for a loan to a working girl is "donation," micro, macro, or otherwise. The term "loan" is usually reserved for the situation where one has a realistic expectation of being paid back the lended funds.
Why would you wear that? It looks much much worse than a condom, and you could only wear it once. I would suspect girls would like to see for themselves if the guy is not carrying STD's also though.Thank you for the response, Pistons. I hate to get Crab louse or syphilis or antibiotics-resistant gonorrhea which you can not prevent with regular condom. We can wear the rubber underwear as many times as we like.
My plan is to put on a condom under and over this Penis Bermuda with sheath. With that way, we can keep the Penis Bermuda clean and re-usable.
MarquisdeSade1
07-22-17, 16:47
Agreed. And if they happen to be the prettiest girls in the club, that makes things very frustrating for punters and really spoils the atmosphere.
And this is why I had to laugh when the guys on the Sharks thread wanted to raise the half-hourly rate from 50 to 60 euros. If the girls are so money-oriented, why aren't they trying to earn money?
Now this is the really scary possibility to me: that an external force is messing with the incentives of the girls and the game is quite different from what we are led to believe.
I mean, if a girl comes in with the name of her pimp emblazoned on her, what are the odds she is on a fixed wage? This is the kind of thing FKKs should crack down on before the government uses it as an excuse for further interference.
Yep, millions of hours of monger experience on this board and still nobody knows how the girls are really managed.
This is where I totally disagree. I have observed the phenomenon in practically all FKKs.Curious observation? Noticed a tattoo on the inner forearm of Mandy the other day, its states Emmanuel, so I had to ask who the fuck is that?
She said a "family member"? Seriously? Please opine? Any thoughts?
I would say she is easily the hardest working / highest earner there (any correlations)!
Mongerer88
07-22-17, 17:02
The correct technical term for a loan to a working girl is "donation," micro, macro, or otherwise. The term "loan" is usually reserved for the situation where one has a realistic expectation of being paid back the lended funds.I didn't mean funds from a customer. I meant a real loan out of altruism.
This charitable concept, I think the term is Kiva loans but it has been a long time since I read about it, was started when it was found that there are a lot of poor farmers that don't want a handout, they want enough funds to buy or rent some land and seed to farm. They want a loan that they can pay back and earn a profit and feed the community. But there is no honest banking system around, just warlords, for them to get a loan.
So they get the loan from wealthier folks who participate in this program, the nominal interest goes for administrative expenses, and the wealthy lenders just get back principal. If the loan is not fully repaid, the wealthy donor gets a charitable donation if his country's tax system allows that.
The sex worker in a poor country faces many of the same issues as the poor African farmer. Does anyone really believe the nonsense that Korean women who did sex work in Korea thought they were going to another country to sew? They know that sewing jobs exist in Asia because there aren't any sewing factories in wealthier countries. But a person does feel bad when he reads about the often exploitive system that causes them to pay a fortune to get to wealthier countries to do the same sex work that they did at home.
UltraHappy
07-22-17, 20:42
I didn't mean funds from a customer. I meant a real loan out of altruism.
Yes, yes, I understand. I have seen these documentaries about microloans. Some places employ social collateral as a means of collecting as well and have enjoyed much impact and success.
My post was merely a comment that it's difficult to get repayment of loans from working girls, whether the loan is extended from a customer or a non-customer. That's all. Cultural thing.
On another note, do working girls really need micro-loans given their income? Their income potential is not the same as some of these destitute farmers making $1-2/day. When working girls need a loan, the amount is usually not so "micro."
Yes, yes, I understand. I have seen these documentaries about microloans. Some places employ social collateral as a means of collecting as well and have enjoyed much impact and success.
My post was merely a comment that it's difficult to get repayment of loans from working girls, whether the loan is extended from a customer or a non-customer. That's all. Cultural thing.
On another note, do working girls really need micro-loans given their income? Their income potential is not the same as some of these destitute farmers making $1-2/day. When working girls need a loan, the amount is usually not so "micro."Only when starting in the business. And the loan would probably be repaid after 1-3 months. Then again, the borrower could measure her by looks too. In order to set the risk at the right level.
Mongerer88
07-23-17, 00:41
Yes, yes, I understand. I have seen these documentaries about microloans. Some places employ social collateral as a means of collecting as well and have enjoyed much impact and success.
My post was merely a comment that it's difficult to get repayment of loans from working girls, whether the loan is extended from a customer or a non-customer. That's all. Cultural thing.
On another note, do working girls really need micro-loans given their income? Their income potential is not the same as some of these destitute farmers making $1-2/day. When working girls need a loan, the amount is usually not so "micro."Not sure how much this "can't work where you sleep" rule will change the equation.
I always figured the FKKs were the lowest cost options for ladies who can arrive by an inexpensive bus or train ride.
If you consider the many South American ladies that work in Europe (primarily the Iberian countries) and in the Caribbean and North America, the costs would seem quite high, with an international plane ticket and an apartment. Same with Asian ladies who travel to other continents to work (and there are a ton of them). Beyond this, a lady can likely earn a greater profit during her working career if she can become an independent as soon as she can, but this requires an investment in technology and requires her to have a place to live and a place of her own (or shared with relatively few other independents) to work. I think that is a pretty large upfront investment, and few ladies from poor countries have this, or the ability to easily obtain it.
Society of course refuses to accept that many women have far greater earning potential for what is between their legs than what is between their ears, and refuses to acknowledge that the earnings from sex work is probably the best chance for most of them to afford an education, anyway.
Member #4581
07-23-17, 03:26
I tried to sound smart by using a fancy phrase like "raison d'etre" but the lousy spell check "corrected" it to raisin the'etre, thereby making me appear dumber than my usual. Thanks a lot, iPad.
What could work is a portal where the ladies would upload their photos and vids, state their business plans (how long they plan to work, how many days a week, what are their best attributes, and how much initial funding they need and payback terms) and mongers could crowd fund various individual providers, depending on how they judge their prospects. After all, no one understands investment potential more than prospective customers.
I would have put a thousand on Mandy, and another thousand shorting Janine, LOL
I would have put a thousand on Mandy, and another thousand shorting Janine, LOLWhy not trade them with 5 x cfd's? LOL.
All For Bb
07-23-17, 05:03
I believe, July and August are vacation time for FKK girls. When usually they come back to FKK? Mid Sepertember, say 9/16?
Thanks!
The problem trading on Mandy would be that her initial stock price would be so high that going further up would be difficult unless she started working longer hours. And then she'd probably have to move to Darmstadt / Frankfurt and skip those 4 h in the car every day she works. But I guess in investment fund on her could get her a nice comfy apartment in Darmstadt / Frankfurt as well. LOL.
ExpatLover
07-23-17, 08:13
I believe, July and August are vacation time for FKK girls. When usually they come back to FKK? Mid Sepertember, say 9/16?
Thanks!Now it is really really the pick season or the departure on holidays, many girls are telling me that they will leave today or in the coming days, they usually take 2 to 3 weeks holidays. But never forget that in the big clubs the LU will not be affected because new girls are joining every day.
They can sleep on the property just not in a room used for work purposes. So the clubs can sleep probably just re-allocate new sleeping space for minimal if any additional costs. What the clubs should do is to allow hobbyists to sleep in the rooms used for working then they can at least get some use out of the rooms.
Not sure how much this "can't work where you sleep" rule will change the equation.
I always figured the FKKs were the lowest cost options for ladies who can arrive by an inexpensive bus or train ride.
If you consider the many South American ladies that work in Europe (primarily the Iberian countries) and in the Caribbean and North America, the costs would seem quite high, with an international plane ticket and an apartment. Same with Asian ladies who travel to other continents to work (and there are a ton of them). Beyond this, a lady can likely earn a greater profit during her working career if she can become an independent as soon as she can, but this requires an investment in technology and requires her to have a place to live and a place of her own (or shared with relatively few other independents) to work. I think that is a pretty large upfront investment, and few ladies from poor countries have this, or the ability to easily obtain it.
Society of course refuses to accept that many women have far greater earning potential for what is between their legs than what is between their ears, and refuses to acknowledge that the earnings from sex work is probably the best chance for most of them to afford an education, anyway.
I believe, July and August are vacation time for FKK girls. When usually they come back to FKK? Mid Sepertember, say 9/16?
Thanks!That's a good rough generalisation.
MarquisdeSade1
07-23-17, 16:06
In the final analysis, I must say I have buyers remorse, I seriously would love my money back! Does that mean I would never come back? Highly unlikely, unless my friends really want a tour? I did 1-2 sessions per day and only found 1-3 girls in that whole period I would love to see working in my favorite you. S clubs, generally speaking there is way to much hype and hyperbole on the forum, I posted a photo of a Russian porn star asking for someone? Anyone to rate her? Not one person would give her a number 1-10, that should of been a big enough red flag and I should have stayed home (I did not find one girl in 6 weeks prettier than her) sure there were some on the db but not in the FKKs, all I can say is Germany is way over rated FKK is way over rated, if you live in the USA I say stay home, the forum likes to say if you like European girls you will love FKK, seriously? While Romania is in Europe some are gypsies with "untouchable" ancestry, there is a lot of faulty info on the forum, Germany in summer is a joke, its very hot and no one uses a / see the people all smoke like they are in the 3rd world people and most drive recklessly with very little regard for the safety of others, I thought western Europe was supposed to be more civilized than the USA? Hardly! One of the worst things is the flies, if you don't like flies, like me I hate them, avoid Germany, nobody even knows what window screens are, seriously? Flies chew you up when you sleep, they are all over the food at the FKKs etc etc here's another thing I'm 100% German. [Deleted by Admin] Well not the FKK "food" haha or the FKK staff! But some of the sessions were good, I did most sessions (99%) for 50 e, that's a decent price, change that and the whole format is worthless, I like the rooms, in USA Clubs I don't get beds! At least of 50% of my sessions I regret if not more, I took them out of boredom and because I was unable to find anything "good" the service in FKK is generally better than USA Clubs, so if I can compare, ill give 1-10 scores.
Prices USA 7 FKK 9.5.
Service USA 8 FKK 9.5.
Optiks USA 9.5 FKK 5.
The use if condoms in FKK is retarded, I don't ever use condoms in U. S clubs, always BBFS, if anal is include, its going to be an anal creampie.
I jacked off when I got home and it felt better than 90% of the sessions.
Here's a snippet of my opinion of Oase Sharks GT.
I can write for days so in the interest of brevity here goes.
Gt is my fav, way 2 small, but nice staff decent food, way 2 small, the smoke was so retarded there was a cloud over the yard everyday.
BTW it is illegal to smoke just about anywhere in the you. S and they are probably $20 per pack not like Germany.
Oase is a joke, the girls are a joke, the staff is horrendous the food is atrocious, and who designed the place, the stairs up and down etc etc.
Sharks is a very mixed bag, the staff at the desk is very rude, some of the bar staff were very nice / not all tho.
The girls? Some were good, some are horrible excuses for humans, the food is ok, but I don't know how the girls eat that everyday?
I will say the bodies of most FKK are more to my liking then generally speaking in the USA Clubs, I like the small tits and many girls don't have any tattoos.
I hate silicone and tattoos, and in that regard FKK is better than USA, but when it comes to faces.
WHOAAA.
FKK is very inferior.
Lets take Janine for example, many guys think she's so "beautiful".
I will rate her, if she was in a USA Club.
Body solid 9 even tho I don't like the tan.
Face solid 5.
Personality solid 0.
And Germany is in big trouble! Walking down the street in ffurt seulberg Cologne ddorf monchengladbach Bruggen Darmstadt.
You see 3rd world trouble every 10 meters, they worry about climate change and recycling what about culture destruction?
And the new condom law is a joke! You want protect women health? Ban smoking, 500000 wgs chain smoking like chimneys will kill many more than any BBBJs ever would.
Smoking kills around 1/3 of all smokers, not to mention second hand non smokers.
Sharks has huge selection. But like a guy from Tel Aviv that I met at GT that just came from Sharks the day before like I did, he said.
Sharks has lots of selection but 75% are unfuckable, and I laughed and said 75%? And he said ok I'm trying to be generous.
I would say 95% are "unworthy" of 50 e.
Citizen Kane
07-23-17, 16:51
The problem trading on Mandy would be that her initial stock price would be so high that going further up would be difficult unless she started working longer hours. And then she'd probably have to move to Darmstadt / Frankfurt and skip those 4 h in the car every day she works. But I guess in investment fund on her could get her a nice comfy apartment in Darmstadt / Frankfurt as well. LOL.She's blue chip. Just buy and hold for the dividend.
Polyamorist
07-23-17, 16:53
What we know is that many girls are getting picked up by loverboys / pimps etc after work. And we assume they need initial help to get from poor village country and into the FKK scene in the first place. What I know from the Chinese scene in Macau is that in order for the girls there to get out of the pimp contracts (initial money paid to there parents, and also for travel, room and contacts) were 100 000 Chinese yuan.I've mongered in Macau, and the girls seemed a bit robotic to me. It figures: if a girl has her mind on an exploitative contract, she cannot be in the here-and-now and truly responsive to her customers. But what use is a girl if she is not sexually responsive? The same applies if her mind is on a loverboy pimp: that is less attention she can give to the guys who are paying for it. It also means she is not going to be alive to opportunities to develop stable customer relationships.
It's a nightmare if you go into a room with a girl and she starts taking phone calls from her "brother" or whatever. Fortunately this is very rare in the FKKs. I'd like it to stay rare.
Basically if there is any external agency putting the girl in a box, that is unfavourable to the customers too. If a girl is in an actual factory you can ignore it, because you only see the final product. But in a business where the personal touch means so much, you as a customer don't want to be put on the assembly line.
I also think it's a lame idea to try to get girls into debt the same way students in America are in debt, for much the same reasons. It means they will be driven by fear rather than excited by opportunity.
MarquisdeSade1
07-23-17, 17:33
I've mongered in Macau, and the girls seemed a bit robotic to me. It figures: if a girl has her mind on an exploitative contract, she cannot be in the here-and-now and truly responsive to her customers. But what use is a girl if she is not sexually responsive? The same applies if her mind is on a loverboy pimp: that is less attention she can give to the guys who are paying for it. It also means she is not going to be alive to opportunities to develop stable customer relationships.
It's a nightmare if you go into a room with a girl and she starts taking phone calls from her "brother" or whatever. Fortunately this is very rare in the FKKs. I'd like it to stay rare.
Basically if there is any external agency putting the girl in a box, that is unfavourable to the customers too. If a girl is in an actual factory you can ignore it, because you only see the final product. But in a business where the personal touch means so much, you as a customer don't want to be put on the assembly line.
I also think it's a lame idea to try to get girls into debt the same way students in America are in debt, for much the same reasons. It means they will be driven by fear rather than excited by opportunity.And like the corporations that exploit the american student, they get them to incur a large debt, and they become less selective about employment options, they just need to earn earn earn!!
I don't agree with it, but its a very effective model.
FKK is generally better than USA ClubsWhat USA clubs you are talking about? What cities? Prostitution is prohibited in most of states.
MarquisdeSade1
07-24-17, 00:55
What USA clubs you are talking about? What cities? Prostitution is prohibited in most of states.How old are you? 5?
So is murder, selling drugs and illegal immigration etc etc etc etc etc etc.
Here let me give you the list of clubs, addresses, photos of the girls, girls names, phone numbers, price lists and services offered.
Just give me a minute.
MarquisdeSade1
07-24-17, 01:14
Books that apply an economic treatment to topics that don't usually get the economic treatment. For instance, in his book More Sex Is Safer Sex, Landsburg argues that people who are free of sexually transmitted diseases, or STDs, should be having a lot more sex since their participation in the sex pool would diminish the overall risk of disease.
What USA clubs you are talking about? What cities? Prostitution is prohibited in most of states.Except Nevada. There's brothels all over that state.
Member #4581
07-24-17, 04:42
Wow, you were "stuck" for six weeks doing something that you apparently hated, such as fucking FKK girls. When I am stuck in a rut for six weeks, it is working on whatever senseless random project that is conceived by my idiot boss. Wouldn't mind swapping places the next time.
You wouldn't happen to be Kaveman's twin, would you? For a min I thought perhaps you were him, except that Kaveman is so high end, he wouldn't be caught dead in a German FKK unless he grew a fake beard and pink contacts.
How much did the hotel costs add up to for six weeks that would have been astronomical. Or maybe just live in a tent somewhere. I never noted a lot of flies in the NRW maybe that is a problem further south though. Usually the girls in FKK are more in shape than USA girls. I would recommend checking out some girls posting their own ads to mix it up a little if you are there for six entire weeks. My favorite girl in Germany was actually found on an ad, not connected to a club.
Wow, you were "stuck" for six weeks doing something that you apparently hated, such as fucking FKK girls. When I am stuck in a rut for six weeks, it is working on whatever senseless random project that is conceived by my idiot boss. Wouldn't mind swapping places the next time.
You wouldn't happen to be Kaveman's twin, would you? For a min I thought perhaps you were him, except that Kaveman is so high end, he wouldn't be caught dead in a German FKK unless he grew a fake beard and pink contacts.
Polyamorist
07-24-17, 12:55
And like the corporations that exploit the american student, they get them to incur a large debt, and they become less selective about employment options, they just need to earn earn earn!!
I don't agree with it, but its a very effective model.In quantity yes, in quality no. It results in crap mindless work. Institutions filled with drones who are holding the real achievers back.
I have sometimes made the point that a certain minority of women are naturally promiscuous. For them FKKs are a positive way of life because they are getting paid for what they would be doing anyway.
But it is easy to forget about this minority if you are used to screwing women who are motivated by fear -- the predictable model of income that is encouraged by the pimp networks and which is highlighted by those who want to shut the whole thing down.
There is nothing necessary about it but you think it's necessary if you see nothing else.
Marquis. It was great fun to meet you at both ends of your tour.
Maybe you over egg the pudding you are making, but it is refreshing to hear from someone who is not bound by the myth of FKK. As we discussed, I don't think your standards are too high: aiming to find character, integrity, and nice looks in a working girl is a reasonable target which many visitors don't even aim for.
A couple of points.
While in my opinion the looks of girls in FKK are less good than they used to be, it may partly be that you were working on the American concept of facial beauty. I remember when I first saw romanians: I thought they were all hideous. Then I looked more closely, and now I find the Romanian face really really attractive, and really don't like the American idea of beauty. As you say FKK is only suitable if one likes East European girls.
I was surprised at your comments about the Germans. I don't understand the comments about being gay so I won't respond. Personally I find the Germans to be generally very helpful and pleasant: they tend not to be very extrovert in meeting new people, and you must remember you are a guest in their country with no words of their language. Staff in Sharks are however appallingly rude and justify your wrath.I remember you very politely asking a girl (the Romanian one) at the outside bar, for a drink, and she was absolutely foul to you in response. I was shocked and very angry: nothing, and I mean nothing, excuses such appalling behaviour.
And referring to Germany as having third world problems seems unreal. Yes there are people in the street who have problems, but they are, unlike the USA, not all corralled into areas defined by race and/or poverty The inequality in Germany is minimal compared to that in the US. No way is German culture being destroyed: adapting to newcomers and changing, yes. A society that doesn't change gets boring and sclerotic.
Shame you aren't coming back. But given what you told me about the US I think FKK has little to offer.
Have fun
MarquisdeSade1,
I find your report very offensive in a few points and I sense you are a poorly educated person.
The comparison of gypsies to Indian "untouchables" reflects a high level of ignorance, regardless of you posting a random URL that you probably haven't even read. Sinti and Rom are ethnic groups that originate in the northern part of India several centuries ago. The Hindu concept of "untouchability" was abolished in 1950 and the current two PM candidates for the next Indian elections are both direct descendants of "untouchable" people. In addition I'm sure you have grown up listening to 'untouchables' rockstars, such as Farrokh Bulsara (or Freddy Mercury for the rest of the World).
The use of condom for FS is everything but retarded.
As Optimist say, you comparing Germany to a third world country. My goodness, do Americans have no shame or a slight sense of reality nowadays? And, yes, Western Europe is more civilised than USA!
OK I stop here because I could go on and on!
Rock.
As you say, very little of what we write is useful given the sheer volume of hot air (to which I am now adding).Yes, not much useful. But sheer volume generates interest and makes people curious. It's natural to want to be in on the secret or know what others are talking about.
I remember meeting one Asian monger who explained that he started FKKing in 2004 (or 2003). They said they were the only Asian face at Oase back then! That definitely is not the case now. Surely, the Internet and maybe even ISG had something to do with that growth. How else would they be finding out about FKK? Friends? Family? Colleagues? German taxi driver? Other mongers in their home country? Adds from another sex forum?
I wasn't around back then. When did FKK stop being a cult secret? And when exactly did the German FKK threads start to grow exponentially?
MarquisdeSade1,
Bad luck if you didn't enjoy your so long time FKK tour, but only stuck at GT for weeks, at Oase for tourists, or at Sharks. Only a very small part of FKK land, only experiencing quite touristic clubs and you visited Sharks 1 year too late. So many other clubs to discover and enjoy. In Hamburg, at Atmos more German girls. In most of other clubs, even at expensive Globe and very expensive Aphrodisia in Zurich city, for 280/30 mn, or 500/ h, mostly Romanian girls, my best sweet GF in FKK and I enjoy so much such kittens women. FKK are for guys who like Romanian girls. For those who don't like Romanian girls, don't go to FKK.
Anyway, FKK are less expensive than US clubs, and you rate FKK higher for services. I found some real beauties in FKK when I didn't see many Californian look girls for my US visits. Nea. Ro at World was my Californian look girl in FKK, even only once with her, but I liked her smile. Each one own tastes of course.
For bareback sex, you should have visited Dietz close to Sharks, or many clubs around Dusseldorf, to cum in girls for only 30, such trash paid sex. I dream more on beauties or GFE behavior. Good times for me in FKK, to make me drive more than 1000 kms every week ends.
I wasn't around back then. When did FKK stop being a cult secret? And when exactly did the German FKK threads start to grow exponentially?It seems from what I can tell from the post counts here at ISG that the interest skyrocketed around new year 2012. (Dec. 2011 was when I was made aware of these clubs too incidentally).
I remember meeting one Asian monger who explained that he started FKKing in 2004 (or 2003). They said they were the only Asian face at Oase back then!Pfff ... not true. Trade / business takes a lot of Asian businessmen to Germany. Frankfurt is a major financial centre. The trade fairs of Frankfurt have been there longer than the FKK Clubs. There has always been a strong attendance of international gents (including Asians) at the Hessen Clubs as long as I can recall / having made observations (2004).
IMO the difference lies in their connection to Germany. Back in early / mid 2000's most foreign visitors were well educated with a connection to Germany through business, and thus had more respect for German culture (including FKK culture and speaking the language). They were sex tourists, but more than that they were businessmen / expats. Today there are more fly in/fly out sex tourists (including Asians) without any clue about Germany or understanding of German (p4p) culture.
MarquisdeSade1
07-24-17, 23:27
MarquisdeSade1,
Bad luck if you didn't enjoy your so long time FKK tour, but only stuck at GT for weeks, at Oase for tourists, or at Sharks. Only a very small part of FKK land, only experiencing quite touristic clubs and you visited Sharks 1 year too late. So many other clubs to discover and enjoy. In Hamburg, at Atmos more German girls. In most of other clubs, even at expensive Globe and very expensive Aphrodisia in Zurich city, for 280/30 mn, or 500/ h, mostly Romanian girls, my best sweet GF in FKK and I enjoy so much such kittens women. FKK are for guys who like Romanian girls. For those who don't like Romanian girls, don't go to FKK.
Anyway, FKK are less expensive than US clubs, and you rate FKK higher for services. I found some real beauties in FKK when I didn't see many Californian look girls for my US visits. Nea. Ro at World was my Californian look girl in FKK, even only once with her, but I liked her smile. Each one own tastes of course.
For bareback sex, you should have visited Dietz close to Sharks, or many clubs around Dusseldorf, to cum in girls for only 30, such trash paid sex. I dream more on beauties or GFE behavior. Good times for me in FKK, to make me drive more than 1000 kms every week ends.You are one of the most objective and rational mongers I met on the tour, au revoir!
MarquisdeSade1
07-25-17, 00:07
Marquis. It was great fun to meet you at both ends of your tour.
Maybe you over egg the pudding you are making, but it is refreshing to hear from someone who is not bound by the myth of FKK. As we discussed, I don't think your standards are too high: aiming to find character, integrity, and nice looks in a working girl is a reasonable target which many visitors don't even aim for.
A couple of points.
While in my opinion the looks of girls in FKK are less good than they used to be, it may partly be that you were working on the American concept of facial beauty. I remember when I first saw romanians: I thought they were all hideous. Then I looked more closely, and now I find the Romanian face really really attractive, and really don't like the American idea of beauty. As you say FKK is only suitable if one likes East European girls.
I was surprised at your comments about the Germans. I don't understand the comments about being gay so I won't respond. Personally I find the Germans to be generally very helpful and pleasant: they tend not to be very extrovert in meeting new people, and you must remember you are a guest in their country with no words of their language. Staff in Sharks are however appallingly rude and justify your wrath.I remember you very politely asking a girl (the Romanian one) at the outside bar, for a drink, and she was absolutely foul to you in response.Maybe I'm trying to correct all the hyperbole on the forum with a little hyperbole of my own? Did I have any great times? Of course I did, but in the aggregate I would have to say the trip was a bust, especially when I think of how many 18 yo angels I could have had in my fav American club BBFS with the funds I spent in the Romanian FKKs, its funny to sit in a FKK and say I know this song isn't German and ask a WG what language is this? I appreciate our intelligent conversations and you are a really nice guy Mr o (and I think way to nice to the WGs), I hope we can meet up again? Zurich? Wien? London?
I saw your trip plans, Oase? Seriously haha lmao.
Be well!
Member #4581
07-25-17, 00:22
One thing I know. Guys complaining that 70% of the girls are not fuckable, or it is really 90% or whatever--remove that 50 E exchange and 99% of the guys are not fuckable, from the girls'perspective.
There is a reason it is the guys paying the girls, and not the other way.
It would help to take a look in the mirror every once in a while.
Member #4581
07-25-17, 00:32
People know now, because we are a lot more connected world -- tons more than even just 15 years ago. In early 2000's, even in the US most people were still on dial up, not to mention PC penetration was not 100%. There were no smartphones. It was worse in many other countries. In Asia outside Japan and the little tigers, back then economies were not as rich as they are today, and most people had no internet connection, and definitely no broadband. Sure some did, but it was a small fraction. And you had to know about FKKs or the forums to search for them. Online porn was still small. Now it is everywhere. Someone interested in paid sex and porn and things of similar nature is bound to come across these clubs and forums, because they show up in Google searches now. Back then, it was less obvious.
If folks are concerned that too many unwashed masses are invading their private enclaves, too bad, because in ten years it will be much worse. This is a one directional tide and no one can stop it or slow it down. May be visa restrictions can slow it down, but the mix of tourists from Asia, and other places is bound to go up.
Travel is much easier. With international sim cards and google voice you can call for free and receive calls from home for free wherever there is WiFi. The offline GPS maps are free so there is no worry about getting lost driving. The sign up bonuses for airline miles is pretty good to get cheap transportation across the Atlantic also.
People know now, because we are a lot more connected world -- tons more than even just 15 years ago. In early 2000's, even in the US most people were still on dial up, not to mention PC penetration was not 100%. There were no smartphones. It was worse in many other countries. In Asia outside Japan and the little tigers, back then economies were not as rich as they are today, and most people had no internet connection, and definitely no broadband. Sure some did, but it was a small fraction. And you had to know about FKKs or the forums to search for them. Online porn was still small. Now it is everywhere. Someone interested in paid sex and porn and things of similar nature is bound to come across these clubs and forums, because they show up in Google searches now. Back then, it was less obvious.
If folks are concerned that too many unwashed masses are invading their private enclaves, too bad, because in ten years it will be much worse. This is a one directional tide and no one can stop it or slow it down. May be visa restrictions can slow it down, but the mix of tourists from Asia, and other places is bound to go up.
MarquisdeSade1
07-25-17, 01:59
One thing I know. Guys complaining that 70% of the girls are not fuckable, or it is really 90% or whatever--remove that 50 E exchange and 99% of the guys are not fuckable, from the girls'perspective.
There is a reason it is the guys paying the girls, and not the other way.
It would help to take a look in the mirror every once in a while.Go into any nightclub in the world and you will find attractive guys buying less attractive females overpriced drinks, whilst hoping they will fuCk them!
Brothels are no different, if anything men's standards seem to be so much lower in brothels, many seem to suspend their standards as a trade off for "a sure thing" and the fact they aren't.
Going to have to see them again, and they can go on the sex forums and tell "fish stories" about how gorgeous the WG was they did last night.
MarquisdeSade1
07-25-17, 04:15
MarquisdeSade1,
Bad luck if you didn't enjoy your so long time FKK tour, but only stuck at GT for weeks, at Oase for tourists, or at Sharks. Only a very small part of FKK land, only experiencing quite touristic clubs and you visited Sharks 1 year too late. So many other clubs to discover and enjoy. In Hamburg, at Atmos more German girls. In most of other clubs, even at expensive Globe and very expensive Aphrodisia in Zurich city, for 280/30 mn, or 500/ h, mostly Romanian girls, my best sweet GF in FKK and I enjoy so much such kittens women. FKK are for guys who like Romanian girls. For those who don't like Romanian girls, don't go to FKK.
Anyway, FKK are less expensive than US clubs, and you rate FKK higher for services. I found some real beauties in FKK when I didn't see many Californian look girls for my US visits. Nea. Ro at World was my Californian look girl in FKK, even only once with her, but I liked her smile. Each one own tastes of course.
For bareback sex, you should have visited Dietz close to Sharks, or many clubs around Dusseldorf, to cum in girls for only 30, such trash paid sex. I dream more on beauties or GFE behavior. Good times for me in FKK, to make me drive more than 1000 kms every week ends.So feminist politicians get to decide how much pleasure they think you should be allowed to enjoy.
In the american clubs I go in, it is not!
Guess what? That's a good thing.
A very good thing.
Do you know what the rules are?
Well, there are none.
Do you know what the prices are?
Well, there are none.
A truly free market.
You are one of the most objective and rational mongers I met on the tour, au revoir!Zurich, Wien, Villach. At, are same Romania than Germany, for more expensive than Germany, but minimum full time salary in Switzerland is over 4000 CHF per month. Villach = Wellcum and Andiamo, is for easy Italians, staff speak Italian, not German, there. Switzerland is just high GFE level for Romanian beauties lovers like me, or for great ski.
For what you seem to like at home, AO clubs are for this kind of sex, but have to succeed to find fuckable girls.
Wherever, whenever, enjoy your time because life can be shorter than what we think.
From my experience, so many lovely girls willing to please us in FKK, saying: What do you like I do for you? It s important for me you finish because I want you feel good. I find more and more real GF behavior, maybe because I learned to love Romanian beauties and for sure because girls feel in few seconds and caresses how I behave, so they play my game. Romanians can be skillful to play GF, not so sure to play trash pornstar. Germans or Polish may be more trash. Maybe to try Poland close to German border, where can also find cheap rates in deep Poland, or Hamburg?
For my tastes, I found few weeks ago a real GF who is able to kiss me all day, all what I enjoy, she is Hungarian from Debrecen, so close to Oradia. Ro, and she really smells Romania for her sweetness and tenderness, but like my maybe ex or very new LR girls, she can become very hot for sex, kitten becoming fire after foreplay. Great game to caress kittens.
One thing I know. Guys complaining that 70% of the girls are not fuckable, or it is really 90% or whatever--remove that 50 E exchange and 99% of the guys are not fuckable, from the girls'perspective.
There is a reason it is the guys paying the girls, and not the other way.
It would help to take a look in the mirror every once in a while.Of course that is how it is to a certain extent. The willingness to pay must always be weighed in. And that's what sets the market balance. If every girl at an ffk were fuckable there would either be a major price hike, or a lot more guys at the clubs. Now of course transportation to the clubs and cultural norms of paying prostitutes weighs down too, but not too much.
When it comes to guys being fuckable for the girls, this probably changes greatly from club to club. Some clubs are rumored among the girls to have more fat and / or ugly and / or old guys, while other clubs get more a younger more well hing male clientelle. And some girls actually do take take this into account to some degree when choosing where to work. Even if money normally trumps everything after a few weeks (LOL). But considering the amount of rooms some of these girls make and all the thrusting and fucking these girls are taking, sensation is getting harder and harder to sustain during sex. They should definitely eat more aphrodisiacs however. That would probably help. Some of these girls actually go on sex vacations too. Believe it or not! Just in order to hit up more good looking guys instead of most of the lot they find in FKK's.
Marquis. You know why I will try Oase :D. Thanks for the info.
I enjoyed your corrective to the rose tinted reviews of Germany. A welcome change.
I agree: I am perhaps too nice to the working girls by and large. It used to work a treat but there are so many unscrupulous workers now, so I am thinking I need to get myself a shark cage before I explore the waters again. Mind you, being nice still does pay off quite often.
I'm thinking that isg members should invite you back to FKKS to give master classes in negotiation;)
Cheers
Marquis. Problem with FKK is not that it is legal. It was legal years ago and service and looks were great. It is a combination of monoculture by a nationality that has a very obsessive view of money, plus an over hyping that means there are too many customers with low standards when it comes to services.
Jnpr. I totally agree with the point you make, and when I am with a 20 year old and paying 50 euros or less for all sorts of services, my mind melts down at how amazing it is, especially as I now am so advanced in years.
I do welcome Marquis making the point that service and looks are not so great in FKK. Too much greed and prudery by the girls who each year get fatter and less interesting. The scene in Germany is no longer the paradise it was.
But having said that there is still more than enough for me to keep coming back for the time being at least.
Horny Harry
07-25-17, 12:13
And Germany is in big trouble! Walking down the street in ffurt seulberg Cologne ddorf monchengladbach Bruggen Darmstadt.
You see 3rd world trouble every 10 meters, they worry about climate change and recycling what about culture destruction?
Spot on!
I recently had to travel by train and I was shocked at what I saw at the train stations of Koeln and Duesseldorf. It's more like a 3rd world country than anything else.
You see, all this hysteria about "climate change" is all about money, taxes and power. The taxes (CO2 tax, Eco tax, KfZ tax, fuel tax, toll for trucks etc.) help pay for the Socialist Dreams, like the multicultural disaster that is unfolding, or the bank bailouts, or wars in the Middle East to "spread freedom and democracy." It's just like the medieval ages and feudal societies back then, when the Catholic church would permanently run fear into the people's lives with scaremongering about "the devil," nowadays they also scare people with things you can not see like CO2 and "global warming. ".
With 90% of the US mainstream media owned by about 6 big corporations and in Europe where you have state owned propaganda TV / radio, it's easy to brainwash the general public with 'statistics' and 'experts.'
In the mean time, the Greens are just as much part of "The Establishment" as Merkel's CDU or the SPD, so forget about them changing anything regarding these stupid prostitution laws. Perhaps in the 1970's and 1980's they were all about 'freedom, sex and love,' but nowadays they are the servants of the extremely conservative immigrants. That's where the populist and politically correct votes are, that's how the Greens can continue their neo-communist agenda: by directly importing poverty and increasingly change Europe into a police state.
You want to see the future for Germany, then look at Sweden and their immigration problems and prostitution laws!
Horny Harry
07-25-17, 12:48
I'm definitely not surprised about this new prostitution law coming from Angela Merkel and I would doubt that the Greens or the SPD will reverse this if they come to power in 2018. This law has the 'Greens signature' all over it: deeply intruding into people's personal lives supposedly for 'humanitarian' or 'social' reasons.
There is still a lot of mystery about Angela Merkel's DDR past and how she was intertwined with the DDR communist system. According to the author interviewed in the YouTube video I posted below, many friends were quite surprised when she advanced her political career with the CDU, as they would have guessed she would be better at home with the Greens. (from 3:00 onwards)
Furthermore, there are lingering questions about the integrity of the "Christiche Friedenskonferenz" (rumoured to be a StaSi front) in which her father was involved, her role during her student years in the FDJ (communist youth organisation in the DDR), and her role in the left wing ("Oekologisch und Sozial") party "Demokratischer Aufbruch."
Here's a short video (in German) about the book "Merkels Maske" (Merkel's Mask): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFY1BIi0lfw.
The fact that there Greens voted against this law means nothing: it's all a game of politics because they knew that they didn't have a majority to block it anyway, and that the law would pass regardless.
So it's easy to be 'against' it because if anything goes wrong in the future (and it will, because this law only makes life more complicated for the WG's), then they can easily claim that "well, we were always against it" and use that as political ammunition for more votes.
Horny Harry. You and I seem to be living on different planets and some of what you say is a collection of phrases with no real meaning for me. But, even so, when you talk about the current law itself, you make for valid points. So my post ends up largely agreeing with you on the new laws whilst disagreeing fundamentally on some of your gut reactions about living in Germany
For example.I agree
1. There is no reason to expect any German government to repeal the law.
2. Yes, the Government, like most, tends to amass information and control to itself, intruding in people's lives with ill thought out "good for you" proposals. This is fine (as there is a need for a functioning regulatory state) provided there are sufficient countervailing forces. I think you are saying in your polemical way that there are now insufficient such forces, and I would agree. The generation scarred by Nazi Germany is passing, and with it, the scepticism about the all powerful interfering state with an ideology. It is very striking that the registration requirements for sex workers echo so strongly the way that many German states used to deal with undesirable people: by forcing gypsies to register in order to be allowed to practice their work. As of course once they were registered they could be subject to further action. In some areas they had to wear yellow fabric to mark them out.
If I were to respond to your politics I would be here for a week and bore everybody silly. I just pick a random one phrase "multicultural disaster". This is so broad as to have no meaning except to seem to be a sign of your personal discomfort at foreign faces and poverty. Evidence is that influences of different cultures leads to a thriving social, cultural and economic situation. Societies set in aspic ossify. There may be issues with the arrival of immigrants, such as culture and poverty but these can be dealt with so that the energy and creativity of migrants is released whilst still retaining the host country's own social values. Parts of Germany with high influx of people, such as Berlin are more lively and tolerant than places with no influx. I would suggest that part of the support for the new law comes from an anti multicultural viewpoint. The Germans don't mind a few German prostitutes but don't like Romanians: just looking at the argument which led to the banning of streetworkers and almost all sex establishments in Dortmund
Anyway. Each to our own.
MarquisdeSade1
07-25-17, 14:59
Horny Harry. You and I seem to be living on different planets and some of what you say is a collection of phrases with no real meaning for me. But, even so, when you talk about the current law itself, you make for valid points. So my post ends up largely agreeing with you on the new laws whilst disagreeing fundamentally on some of your gut reactions about living in Germany
For example.I agree
1. There is no reason to expect any German government to repeal the law.
2. Yes, the Government, like most, tends to amass information and control to itself, intruding in people's lives with ill thought out "good for you" proposals. This is fine (as there is a need for a functioning regulatory state) provided there are sufficient countervailing forces. I think you are saying in your polemical way that there are now insufficient such forces, and I would agree. The generation scarred by Nazi Germany is passing, and with it, the scepticism about the all powerful interfering state with an ideology. It is very striking that the registration requirements for sex workers echo so strongly the way that many German states used to deal with undesirable people: by forcing gypsies to register in order to be allowed to practice their work. As of course once they were registered they could be subject to further action. In some areas they had to wear yellow fabric to mark them out..Evidence is that influences of different cultures leads to a thriving social, cultural and economic situation. Societies set in aspic ossify. There may be issues with the arrival of immigrants, such as culture and poverty but these can be dealt with so that the energy and creativity of migrants is released whilst still retaining the host country's own social values.
Where do all of these terrorist attacks fit in here? I cannot believe you actually believe one single word of this!
MarquisdeSade1
07-25-17, 15:04
Marquis. Problem with FKK is not that it is legal. It was legal years ago and service and looks were great. It is a combination of monoculture by a nationality that has a very obsessive view of money, plus an over hyping that means there are too many customers with low standards when it comes to services.Too many Romanian WGs and Asian mongers have destroyed the FKK model.
But multiculturalism is such a wonderful thing!
Horny Harry
07-25-17, 15:08
Anyway. Each to our own.P.S. Be careful with that expression, it's quite a 'loaded statement' in Germany.
https://www.google.com/search?q=jedem+das+seine&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiasobozaTVAhWkrVQKHWNhBe8Q_AUIBigB&biw=1920&bih=895
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedem_das_Seine
p.p.s. I recently left Germany (leaving the sinking ship), but I'm still there quite often for business and my employer thankfully always provides me with a rental car (unless I'm stupid enough to forget to take my driver's license, then I'm stuck with taking the train 😤 ) so plenty of opportunity for an FKK visit. 😉
P.S. Be careful with that expression, it's quite a 'loaded statement' in Germany.
https://www.google.com/search?q=jedem+das+seine&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiasobozaTVAhWkrVQKHWNhBe8Q_AUIBigB&biw=1920&bih=895
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedem_das_Seine
p.p.s. I recently left Germany (leaving the sinking ship), but I'm still there quite often for business and my employer thankfully always provides me with a rental car (unless I forget to take my driver's license then I'm stuck with taking the train 😤 ) so plenty of opportunity for an FKK visit. 😉Thanks. It is so depressing. I didn't know that. Great example of how a state can appropriate anything to dress its delusions.
MarquisdeSade1
07-25-17, 19:44
Marquis. Problem with FKK is not that it is legal. It was legal years ago and service and looks were great. It is a combination of monoculture by a nationality that has a very obsessive view of money, plus an over hyping that means there are too many customers with low standards when it comes to services.Luckycookie was telling me about the rule of 3.
Concerning Asian customers and BTW he was born in China.
He says it goes like this.
The girls love the Asian customers.
Because.
3 mm.
3 minutes.
3 hundred euro.
I asked a few Asian guys what a girl was like after they pay at the boxes, and what was included.
And they all say I don't know I never ask for any of "that".
Go into any nightclub in the world and you will find attractive guys buying less attractive females overpriced drinks, whilst hoping they will fuCk them!
Brothels are no different, if anything men's standards seem to be so much lower in brothels, many seem to suspend their standards as a trade off for "a sure thing" and the fact they aren't.
Going to have to see them again, and they can go on the sex forums and tell "fish stories" about how gorgeous the WG was they did last night.Did you see so many good looking guys in FKK during your long time tour? And so many ugly girls?
My problem in FKK is to too often see the beauty and the beast, fresh flesh girls going with monsters, sometimes I said to Sandra Sharks or now to Kate ex Aca or my ex LR girl, can't desire them after seeing that.
Pfff ... not true. Trade / business takes a lot of Asian businessmen to Germany. Frankfurt is a major financial centre.
They were sex tourists, but more than that they were businessmen / expats. Today there are more fly in/fly out sex tourists (including Asians) without any clue about Germany or understanding of German (p4p) culture.The guy I spoke with may have been exaggerating about being the only Asian face (or I remembered details incorrectly). I think almost everyone will agree the number of fly-in sex tourists has increased exponentially. Increased business relations cannot account for that increase.
Or maybe these businessmen / expats became enthusiastic promoters in the online P6 forums in their native language / country? From speaking with most mongers, we live a double life. So discussing P6 is something we do online or in-person with other monger friends. And one probably won't have monger friends if they exclusively see escorts, since the operators try their best to provide discretion.
Someone interested in paid sex and porn and things of similar nature is bound to come across these clubs and forums, because they show up in Google searches now. Back then, it was less obvious.
My first business trip to Germany was in 2009. While in my hotel, I must have did a search for "escorts", because that trip I didn't learn about the FKKs. I didn't do a search for "sex club" probably because I associated that term with swingers. In retrospect, I would have stumbled upon FKKs much sooner, had I done a search for "sex forums", but I mistakenly thought all those would be in German language.
In the end, I can't remember how I learned of FKKs. I suspect I may have seen an advertisement on a Frankfurt taxi, and then immediately performed a Google search on my smartphone.
So feminist politicians get to decide how much pleasure they think you should be allowed to enjoy.
In the american clubs I go in, it is not!
Guess what? That's a good thing.
A very good thing.
Do you know what the rules are?
Well, there are none.
Do you know what the prices are?
Well, there are none.
A truly free market.But you said more expensive paid sex in US than in FKK, and I remember I paid 200 USD for 1 hour for a only cute brunette, not a Romanian beauty like Kate or Megan or Madi or Luana LR, for only 100/ h.
Really bad you didn't enjoy more your stay in Germany, with feeling of waste of money for FKK.
I'm a bit sad to say this because I like my country and my town, but I feel safer in Germany than on Champs Elysées, said to be the most beautiful street in the world. Except 2 guys in FKK who don't like prettiest girls come to me when they have to run after, most Germans are friendly, giving a good welcome. Many Germans seeing me every week end, think I'm German and come to speak to me. When they know I'm French and drive so many kilometers, they can't believe it.
As I already wrote often, I agree with this new law to protect WGs, mainly for poor Romanians and Bulgarians, versus some guys pressure, because this kind of guys think they can have everything when paying. That's why many of the prettiest and busiest girls at Sharks left, and they become talkative after. With this new law, a girl can say now to a guy: law says only CBJ and CFS, and you can't complaint to the desk, crying, about this, because I just respect law. With my behavior with girls, I knew no need to worry, FKK life would go on, without forcing nor being a beggar.
I enjoy going to some clubs, they are my houses for week end, but not for holidays. I m really welcome at LR, by staff, by girls, like I was 2 years and half ago at World.
Even I think it's a bad business, but I enjoy FKK land. Perfect would be to find the perfect GFE beauty and only her, I thought I found but not anymore elegant enough for me.
To enjoy FKK, need to love Romanian girls, I do.
Member #4585
07-25-17, 21:23
One thing I know, remove that 50 E exchange and 99% of the guys are not fuckable, from the girls'perspective.
There is a reason it is the guys paying the girls, and not the other way.
It would help to take a look in the mirror every once in a while.Agreed. I am quite sure for many girls in FKKs that the thought of you lying on top of them will haunt them forever.
Luckycookie was telling me about the rule of 3.
Concerning Asian customers and BTW he was born in China.
He says it goes like this.
The girls love the Asian customers.
Because.
3 mm.
3 minutes.
3 hundred euro.
I asked a few Asian guys what a girl was like after they pay at the boxes, and what was included.
And they all say I don't know I never ask for any of "that".Yes, most are easy clients, but some girls also like Asians because they are kind with girls, not always the same with some local regulars.
Luckycookie was telling me about the rule of 3.
Concerning Asian customers and BTW he was born in China.
He says it goes like this.
The girls love the Asian customers.
Because.
3 mm.
3 minutes.
3 hundred euro.
I asked a few Asian guys what a girl was like after they pay at the boxes, and what was included.
And they all say I don't know I never ask for any of "that".Heh, that joke has new numbers in every country. In thailand is went like this:
'The 333's:
They pay 3000 bath to have sex for 3 minutes with a 3 inch dick'.
Given this was a few years ago, 3000 bath was a lot back then. 3 mm like in yours is a bit unrealistic. So it looses realism then.
The price is more than 50 euros that is for sure.
So feminist politicians get to decide how much pleasure they think you should be allowed to enjoy.
In the american clubs I go in, it is not!
Guess what? That's a good thing.
A very good thing.
Do you know what the rules are?
Well, there are none.
Do you know what the prices are?
Well, there are none.
A truly free market.
Escape Artist
07-25-17, 23:02
Trying to get from Dusseldorf to Dortmund airport. Anyone ever used public transport to get there? Doesn't seem like there's a train station to the airport.
Member #4581
07-25-17, 23:06
This guy and his bar friends sound like fans of Right Said Fred. Yup right, a bunch of "I am too sexy for my tush" Yahoos are buying drinks for ugly chicks. Why oh why. Why don't they follow your model and just jack off, instead of throwing money away.
In any case, the question was not about bars all around the world, but FKK clubs in particular. I don't know about you, but I take a look at some of the hedgehogs in the men's shower in the clubs and feel for the girls having to suck that and fuck that. I hope the fancy Coach bag they hope to buy is worth all that.
And I don't know where all these fancy clubs in the US are, still waiting to hear the details. And please, no apples to bananas comparison. We are talking about 50 E for fuck and suck sessions here. If I pay a million, I could have a Demi Moore, we all saw that movie. Who runs down the food at Red Lobster because there is a Michelin starred restaurant serving fantastic food in Paris for two hundred a person? I have been to dozens of strip clubs all over the place in US, and for fifty you get a dry hump for 6 min, and not necessarily from better lookers than FKK girls. Monger88 (who seems like a true expert and not just a blowhard) said below 300 all one gets is skanks and druggies. I would trust his balanced views than the drivel I hear.
Let me say this. There are hundreds and thousands of mongers flying from the US to Germany just for fucking. I haven't heard of mongers in similar numbers flying in the reverse direction from Germany to US, saying "let me have some of that gorgeous piece of ass over there at six times the price". Perhaps they are all a secret -- seen only by you in those fine US establishments, whose identity I guess will also remain a secret.
Too bad it took you six weeks to figure out these clubs were a dump. I can usually figure out a dump in five min.
MarquisdeSade1
07-25-17, 23:40
This guy and his bar friends sound like fans of Right Said Fred. Yup right, a bunch of "I am too sexy for my tush" Yahoos are buying drinks for ugly chicks. Why oh why. Why don't they follow your model and just jack off, instead of throwing money away.
In any case, the question was not about bars all around the world, but FKK clubs in particular. I don't know about you, but I take a look at some of the hedgehogs in the men's shower in the clubs and feel for the girls having to suck that and fuck that. I hope the fancy Coach bag they hope to buy is worth all that.
And I don't know where all these fancy clubs in the US are, still waiting to hear the details. And please, no apples to bananas comparison. We are talking about 50 E for fuck and suck sessions here. If I pay a million, I could have a Demi Moore, we all saw that movie. Who runs down the food at Red Lobster because there is a Michelin starred restaurant serving fantastic food in Paris for two hundred a person? I have been to dozens of strip clubs all over the place in US, and for fifty you get a dry hump for 6 min, and not necessarily from better lookers than FKK girls. Monger88 (who seems like a true expert and not just a blowhard) said below 300 all one gets is skanks and druggies. I would trust his balanced views than the drivel I hear.
Let me say this. There are hundreds and thousands of mongers flying from the US to Germany just for fucking. I haven't heard of mongers in similar numbers flying in the reverse direction from Germany to US, saying "let me have some of that gorgeous piece of ass over there at six times the price". Perhaps they are all a secret -- seen only by you in those fine US establishments, whose identity I guess will also remain a secret.
Too bad it took you six weeks to figure out these clubs were a dump. I can usually figure out a dump in five min.Great pitch!
MarquisdeSade1
07-25-17, 23:51
Did you see so many good looking guys in FKK during your long time tour? And so many ugly girls?
My problem in FKK is to too often see the beauty and the beast, fresh flesh girls going with monsters, sometimes I said to Sandra Sharks or now to Kate ex Aca or my ex LR girl, can't desire them after seeing that.Trust me Siri, I saw plenty of that also, try sitting on the couches by the front door of sharks, and watch the stairs, wowww.
You will vomit, but those WGs do that by choice they can say no to any customer, there are plenty of WGs I wouldn't session with, or session with again, after some of the action I saw them getting.
And yes I saw more good looking dudes in each FKK then I've ever seen in any american club, in America, many guys buy into the notion that mongering is trashy or just for minorities or they can get all the pussy they want w / o "paying for it", it is obvious there is a different mindset in Germany.
Except Nevada. There's brothels all over that state.Not really. There are brothels in some relatively rural parts of Nevada, inconvenient for the casual visitor to Las Vegas. Lots of WGs in Vegas, but not legal. The brothels that DO exist tend to be vastly overpriced for the knowledgeable international monger.
And those WGs in the USA that sell themselves at a price point comparable to FKK rates are typically far less attractive than almost ANY WG working an FKK of any repute. I've seen some ugly comments sw working obscure FKKs back when I frequented Germany (2004-06), but generally FKK girls of any nationality are several notches above typical American WGs.
Finally, I generally had ZERO concern about getting a BBBJ in an FKK. In the USA, especially know with epidemic-level intravenous opioid addiction rampant, the risks of HIV or Hep-C are high, not to mention your garden variety chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis, herpes, HPV, etc. Addicted WGs in the US, and there are many, worry more about earning to get there next fix than they do safety. More than once I've had to push one off when she just tried to hop on for BBFS cowgirl to get me off quick, get paid, then text her dealer.
I've known too many mongers catch things, and now I pretty much save up for trips to Thailand and the Philippines.
Mongerer88
07-26-17, 01:58
[Deleted by Admin]
============================================
Greetings Gentlemen,
With all due respect, I would very much appreciate it if you would not use my forum to publicly solicit or exchange information on how to find and/or use my competitor's website(s).
Thanks,
Jackson
UltraHappy
07-26-17, 02:05
I would doubt that the Greens or the SPD will reverse this if they come to power in 2018. This law has the 'Greens signature' all over it: deeply intruding into people's personal lives supposedly for 'humanitarian' or 'social' reasons.
The fact that there Greens voted against this law means nothing: it's all a game of politics because they knew that they didn't have a majority to block it anyway, and that the law would pass regardless. The SPD is the sister political party of the CDU. Together, the SPD and CDU have banded together to have a majority vote in the legislature. If the new law has anyone's handwriting all over it, it's the SPD.
The Greens not only voted against the law, but argued against it. In fact, the Green Party was the only political party of any real substance that opposed the law. If anything, we should all be cheering the Greens and giving the stink eye to the SPD (and the CDU for their cooperation with the SPD on this point).
UltraHappy
07-26-17, 02:14
Let me say this. There are hundreds and thousands of mongers flying from the US to Germany just for fucking. I haven't heard of mongers in similar numbers flying in the reverse direction from Germany to US, saying "let me have some of that gorgeous piece of ass over there at six times the price". Perhaps they are all a secret -- seen only by you in those fine US establishments, whose identity I guess will also remain a secret.
Too bad it took you six weeks to figure out these clubs were a dump. I can usually figure out a dump in five min.I live in the States at least 10 months of the year (that is, most of the year). I am one of those guys who flies to Germany all the time. I am highly reluctant to compare the scene in Germany to the scene in the States because quite frankly, there is no comparison. There are very good reasons that I and thousands and thousands of my fellow Americans are flying to Germany all the time. And, the only reason more Americans aren't flying to Germany is due to mere ignorance of how good it is in Germany. I have yet to meet an American who visited FKKs who didn't find it a life-changing experience.
MarquisdeSade1
07-26-17, 02:26
I mentioned some of the things, that sucked about my tour, but before I forget, I want to mention some of the best, at GT in Bruggen, most of the guys were some of the coolest guys I've ever met anywhere! The guys from Paris, Philip Dennis and Jillli and of course Siri.
They were a blast to spend time with and if I ever return, I really hope to see them again.
I must say the Belgians Dutch and French are a very cool bunch of mongers.
MarquisdeSade1
07-26-17, 02:28
I live in the States at least 10 months of the year (that is, most of the year). I am one of those guys who flies to Germany all the time. I am highly reluctant to compare the scene in Germany to the scene in the States because quite frankly, there is no comparison. There are very good reasons that I and thousands and thousands of my fellow Americans are flying to Germany all the time. And, the only reason more Americans aren't flying to Germany is due to mere ignorance of how good it is in Germany. I have yet to meet an American who visited FKKs who didn't find it a life-changing experience.It was indeed, now I love America more than ever!
MarquisdeSade1
07-26-17, 02:31
I live in the States at least 10 months of the year (that is, most of the year). I am one of those guys who flies to Germany all the time. I am highly reluctant to compare the scene in Germany to the scene in the States because quite frankly, there is no comparison. There are very good reasons that I and thousands and thousands of my fellow Americans are flying to Germany all the time. And, the only reason more Americans aren't flying to Germany is due to mere ignorance of how good it is in Germany. I have yet to meet an American who visited FKKs who didn't find it a life-changing experience.Great idea to get a reference point because as they say, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
Based on my limited FKK / Suana club experience (I only have 6 years FKK experience) I can say you would find lots of 10's in most popular clubs in Hessian, NRW, Berlin (Artemis) of Germany, GT of Vienna and Globe of Zurich. Just remember LUs are very dynamic and change day to day. It's like the luck of the draw. We tourists have to prepare for occasional disappointment based on the time of our visits.
ExpatLover
07-26-17, 02:42
This guy and his bar friends sound like fans of Right Said Fred. Yup right, a bunch of "I am too sexy for my tush" Yahoos are buying drinks for ugly chicks. Why oh why. Why don't they follow your model and just jack off, instead of throwing money away.
In any case, the question was not about bars all around the world, but FKK clubs in particular. I don't know about you, but I take a look at some of the hedgehogs in the men's shower in the clubs and feel for the girls having to suck that and fuck that. I hope the fancy Coach bag they hope to buy is worth all that.
And I don't know where all these fancy clubs in the US are, still waiting to hear the details. And please, no apples to bananas comparison. We are talking about 50 E for fuck and suck sessions here. If I pay a million, I could have a Demi Moore, we all saw that movie. Who runs down the food at Red Lobster because there is a Michelin starred restaurant serving fantastic food in Paris for two hundred a person? I have been to dozens of strip clubs all over the place in US, and for fifty you get a dry hump for 6 min, and not necessarily from better lookers than FKK girls. Monger88 (who seems like a true expert and not just a blowhard) said below 300 all one gets is skanks and druggies. I would trust his balanced views than the drivel I hear.
Let me say this. There are hundreds and thousands of mongers flying from the US to Germany just for fucking. I haven't heard of mongers in similar numbers flying in the reverse direction from Germany to US, saying "let me have some of that gorgeous piece of ass over there at six times the price". Perhaps they are all a secret -- seen only by you in those fine US establishments, whose identity I guess will also remain a secret.
Too bad it took you six weeks to figure out these clubs were a dump. I can usually figure out a dump in five min.Fully on line the you, tried several times in Miami, Syracuse, New Jersey, or LA to get something at a correct rate but never felt comfortable or safe, so never concluded, why taking any risk when it is so easy and legal in Germany.
BadinSweet
07-26-17, 02:52
Yeah, after traveling around the world I have yet to find a place that is better setup than Germany FKK. All I can say is my passport pages are filled with Frankfurt and Dusseldorf stamps. I renewed my passport 1.5 years ago and my 50 pages passport is already halfway full.
Mongerer88. I still find FKK much better, overall.
On a side note, someone mentioned Spitzer girl, Ashley Dupre, somewhere. Where do you think she would rank in FKK club? I think I will be lining up for her.
MarquisdeSade1
07-26-17, 02:56
Yeah, after traveling around the world I have yet to find a place that is better setup than Germany FKK. All I can say is my passport pages are filled with Frankfurt and Dusseldorf stamps. I renewed my passport 1. 5 years ago and my 50 pages passport is already halfway full.
Talk about T. E. are. I know exactly what you meant Mongerer88. I still find FKK much better, overall.
On a side note, someone mentioned Spitzer girl, Ashley Dupre, somewhere. Where do you think she would rank in FKK club? I think I will be lining up for her.Compared to FKK, she would be avg or even below.
Compared to american clubs, she would starve quickly.
Just because he paid her 5k per session doesn't mean anything.
Look at him and then his bank acct, I believe his father left him 150 million usd.
On a side note, someone mentioned Spitzer girl, Ashley Dupre, somewhere. Where do you think she would rank in FKK club? I think I will be lining up for her.5th-20th depending on club. So I'd probably skip her unless I had already tried out lots.
She probably would not rank very high. That Dupre girl was short and most of the FKK girls are medium to tall and I do not really like short women. It seems like the average female height is taller in Europe than the USA for some reason probably better quality food there.
Yeah, after traveling around the world I have yet to find a place that is better setup than Germany FKK. All I can say is my passport pages are filled with Frankfurt and Dusseldorf stamps. I renewed my passport 1. 5 years ago and my 50 pages passport is already halfway full.
Mongerer88. I still find FKK much better, overall.
On a side note, someone mentioned Spitzer girl, Ashley Dupre, somewhere. Where do you think she would rank in FKK club? I think I will be lining up for her.
My problem in FKK is to too often see the beauty and the beast, fresh flesh girls going with monsters, sometimes I said to Sandra Sharks or now to Kate ex Aca or my ex LR girl, can't desire them after seeing that.Fresh flesh eaten by monsters? 😂 haha.
You are rite french devil 👹 don't want to repeat when I see that 🙈 makes the sparkle go away LOL.
DiverOyster
07-26-17, 06:55
Yeah, after traveling around the world I have yet to find a place that is better setup than Germany FKK. All I can say is my passport pages are filled with Frankfurt and Dusseldorf stamps. I renewed my passport 1. 5 years ago and my 50 pages passport is already halfway full.
Talk about T. E. are. I know exactly what you meant Mongerer88. I still find FKK much better, overall.
On a side note, someone mentioned Spitzer girl, Ashley Dupre, somewhere. Where do you think she would rank in FKK club? I think I will be lining up for her.+1. Very well said about the German FKK setup which is very addictive indeed!
Did you see so many good looking guys in FKK during your long time tour? And so many ugly girls?
My problem in FKK is to too often see the beauty and the beast, fresh flesh girls going with monsters, sometimes I said to Sandra Sharks or now to Kate ex Aca or my ex LR girl, can't desire them after seeing that.I was also sometimes sad for Aylice. Bu at Sharks, a real Bulgarian little princess in room, so small but real potential and high stamina, but not always going upstairs with a prince, without white horse.
Luckycookie was telling me about the rule of 3.
Concerning Asian customers and BTW he was born in China.
He says it goes like this.
Up
The girls love the Asian customers.
Because.
3 mm.
3 minutes.
3 hundred euro.
I asked a few Asian guys what a girl was like after they pay at the boxes, and what was included.
And they all say I don't know I never ask for any of "that".That's exactly what the girl I like at Sharks and is an Asian specialist says. Spot on.
Although when I mentioned monoculture I meant Romanian working girls, not customers from south east asia
Marquis. The damage from the Romanian monoculture is I would argue a symptom of insufficient diversity not too much.
As for terrorist attacks: I think you are wrong to say this is a result of diversity, but I don't want to turn this into a political forum so I'll leave it.
Dear mongers,
Can anyone tell me about this place called 'Salon Mira', I may have got the spelling wrong.
How do things work here and how is it different from FKK's in Frankfurt area. Are there more place besides FKK where one can go and have fun. Please advise.
Thanks a ton in advance, sl.
HornyHarry. Respect to you for the way you dealt with my major disagreements with you without letting the argument degenerate into name calling.
Cheers.
Horny Harry
07-26-17, 16:55
HornyHarry. Respect to you for the way you dealt with my major disagreements with you without letting the argument degenerate into name calling.
Cheers.No worries. 👍.
It would be nice to have a chat at Sharks or GT some time, but I think in an FKK club my eyes would constantly be wondering off to the girls. 😉.
MarquisdeSade1
07-26-17, 17:57
Great idea to get a reference point because as they say, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
Based on my limited FKK / Suana club experience (I only have 6 years FKK experience) I can say you would find lots of 10's in most popular clubs in Hessian, NRW, Berlin (Artemis) of Germany, GT of Vienna and Globe of Zurich. Just remember LUs are very dynamic and change day to day. It's like the luck of the draw. We tourists have to prepare for occasional disappointment based on the time of our visits.This was posted before my tour!
MarquisdeSade1
07-26-17, 18:01
Marquis. The damage from the Romanian monoculture is I would argue a symptom of insufficient diversity not too much.
As for terrorist attacks: I think you are wrong to say this is a result of diversity, but I don't want to turn this into a political forum so I'll leave it.A symptom of insufficient diversity not too much.
Seriously?
Your sophistry is unimpressive mr O!
MarquisdeSade1
07-26-17, 19:32
Yes, most are easy clients, but some girls also like Asians because they are kind with girls, not always the same with some local regulars.Do you mean pay a lot and not ask for much in return?
ExpatLover
07-26-17, 21:39
No worries. 👍.
It would be nice to have a chat at Sharks or GT some time, but I think in an FKK club my eyes would constantly be wondering off to the girls. 😉.Not so sure sometimes there are girls you don't want to look at.
MarquisdeSade1
07-26-17, 22:35
Did you see so many good looking guys in FKK during your long time tour? And so many ugly girls?
My problem in FKK is to too often see the beauty and the beast, fresh flesh girls going with monsters, sometimes I said to Sandra Sharks or now to Kate ex Aca or my ex LR girl, can't desire them after seeing that.Siri,
When Sandra and Mandy work the same shift, I think they have a contest who can take the most monsters hahaa.
It really is gross, if you want to ruin your appetite for wgs sit by the stairs in sharks and watch for a few a few minutes.
It is one scary horror film.
I mentioned some of the things, that sucked about my tour, but before I forget, I want to mention some of the best, at GT in Bruggen, most of the guys were some of the coolest guys I've ever met anywhere! The guys from Paris, Philip Dennis and Jillli and of course Siri.
They were a blast to spend time with and if I ever return, I really hope to see them again.
I must say the Belgians Dutch and French are a very cool bunch of mongers.When you will be in US, I'm pretty sure you will miss Simona or few others. I think you should have visited more clubs than only GT, Oase and Sharks. At least, now you know the french devil when so many speak without knowing.
Enjoy life.
BadinSweet
07-27-17, 00:19
Wow, you guys have some high standard. I find her attractive. When the scandal happened, all my buddies were all agreed that Spitzer has a nice taste.
5th-20th depending on club. So I'd probably skip her unless I had already tried out lots.
She probably would not rank very high. That Dupre girl was short and most of the FKK girls are medium to tall and I do not really like short women. It seems like the average female height is taller in Europe than the USA for some reason probably better quality food there.
Compared to FKK, she would be avg or even below.
Compared to american clubs, she would starve quickly.
Just because he paid her 5k per session doesn't mean anything.
Look at him and then his bank acct, I believe his father left him 150 million usd.I need to go to the club you go to. I doubt she will be starving as she could land herself in the high end escort and seems to have a few follower. I know I would pay a good amount for her, not 5 K of course.
No worries. 👍.
It would be nice to have a chat at Sharks or GT some time, but I think in an FKK club my eyes would constantly be wondering off to the girls. 😉.Oh come on, don't make him jealous now.
Punting101
07-27-17, 01:50
I was wondering, how much privacy and discretion can I expect in a typical FKK club? Specifically I am thinking about going to FKK Artemis in Berlin. I will be in Berlin for a while, and I was thinking to go check out the scene. But I come from the kind of family and close knit community where my life and reputation would be effectively ruined if it ever leaked out, or anyone ever found out that I visited such a place.
So my question is, can I be 100% certain that my visit will be discreet and private? Is there any possibility that photos or videos of any sort should leak out that would show customers' faces? I would love to visit, but I want to feel 100% calm if I'll go visit that it's my personal secret. I'm sure a large percentage of customers are married men going without their wives' knowledge, so there must be some robust effort taken to ensure people's privacy. Anyone has any insights?
So my question is, can I be 100% certain that my visit will be discreet and private? Is there any possibility that photos or videos of any sort should leak out that would show customers' faces? I would love to visit, but I want to feel 100% calm if I'll go visit that it's my personal secret. I'm sure a large percentage of customers are married men going without their wives' knowledge, so there must be some robust effort taken to ensure people's privacy. Anyone has any insights?You will be totally safe. The only one I've heard about that was ranted on was that Maltese politician at Aca. But even political, top state judges, TV personalities, pop stars and footballers have been to Artemis and other clubs.
I think there was one case of hidden camera in Acapulco in Velbert but don't go there as they enforce the CBJ law anyway.
I was wondering, how much privacy and discretion can I expect in a typical FKK club? Specifically I am thinking about going to FKK Artemis in Berlin. I will be in Berlin for a while, and I was thinking to go check out the scene. But I come from the kind of family and close knit community where my life and reputation would be effectively ruined if it ever leaked out, or anyone ever found out that I visited such a place.
So my question is, can I be 100% certain that my visit will be discreet and private? Is there any possibility that photos or videos of any sort should leak out that would show customers' faces? I would love to visit, but I want to feel 100% calm if I'll go visit that it's my personal secret. I'm sure a large percentage of customers are married men going without their wives' knowledge, so there must be some robust effort taken to ensure people's privacy. Anyone has any insights?
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/74093/pn_media_minister_brothel#. WXlPQdTR9 kg.
I was wondering, how much privacy and discretion can I expect in a typical FKK club? Specifically I am thinking about going to FKK Artemis in Berlin. I will be in Berlin for a while, and I was thinking to go check out the scene. But I come from the kind of family and close knit community where my life and reputation would be effectively ruined if it ever leaked out, or anyone ever found out that I visited such a place.
So my question is, can I be 100% certain that my visit will be discreet and private? Is there any possibility that photos or videos of any sort should leak out that would show customers' faces? I would love to visit, but I want to feel 100% calm if I'll go visit that it's my personal secret. I'm sure a large percentage of customers are married men going without their wives' knowledge, so there must be some robust effort taken to ensure people's privacy. Anyone has any insights?
Member #4581
07-27-17, 03:28
I was wondering, how much privacy and discretion can I expect in a typical FKK club? Specifically I am thinking about going to FKK Artemis in Berlin. I will be in Berlin for a while, and I was thinking to go check out the scene. But I come from the kind of family and close knit community where my life and reputation would be effectively ruined if it ever leaked out, or anyone ever found out that I visited such a place.
So my question is, can I be 100% certain that my visit will be discreet and private? Is there any possibility that photos or videos of any sort should leak out that would show customers' faces? I would love to visit, but I want to feel 100% calm if I'll go visit that it's my personal secret. I'm sure a large percentage of customers are married men going without their wives' knowledge, so there must be some robust effort taken to ensure people's privacy. Anyone has any insights?You are not the only one.
Photos, videos, any kind of recording is strictly forbidden. Violators are thrown out (and probably beaten up before they are thrown out).
Don't worry. Your biggest worry after you get over initial jitters is stuff like "who gives the best blow job". In other words, nice problems.
Member #4581
07-27-17, 03:37
Wow, you guys have some high standard. I find her attractive. When the scandal happened, all my buddies were all agreed that Spitzer has a nice taste.
There is no such thing as some people having high standards when it comes to these things. Every one has a different taste. You see it in the clubs all day. Some of my best girls are refused by many others, and some girls I would not touch with a ten foot (few inches?) pole are grabbed eagerly by some others. And BadIn, your tastes are super, we know that (ok, that was a bit self serving on my part 🙂
Only thing is, some posters here feel a need to diss girls they didn't jell with or found not so attractive. As if they are the Siskel and Ebert of monger world. It's fine to praise the girls you like, even fine to politely say why you don't find some girl's optics or service and explain why, but to trash someone needlessly is just cheap.
And then there are some who need to vilify the entire FKK ecosystem, but still took several weeks to figure out they didn't like these clubs. I guess some people are just slow.
So I have spent the past week in Germany. Did 3 FKK clubs.
Babylon in Hamburg: it was my first time and got unsold out of all my money in one shot. It was a nice experience though and glad I just went for it. It was slow when I went and there weren't any other girls that interested me that day.
Palace in Frankfurt: Did a basic 3 some and a basic session. Girls here seemed posses if you didn't do more than basic. They just didn't sell me on the whole experience. I was almost considering not going to.
Artemis in Berlin: Holy high fuck. Did 5 sessions with 4 girls. Ducked 2 of them in the kinos, DATY with 2, all the girls were happy to do just the basic and some even came back for seconds. It was an experience I will never forget.
All acts were covered but tbt, they were so good at selling (and sucking) I didn't care. No one tried up selling and all the girls at least acted like they wanted to be there, unlike the previous night at Palace.
Do you mean pay a lot and not ask for much in return?It means not acting like an a $$hole. Negotiating over price. Asking for things for free. Wanting to fuck without a condom or trying to slip it off. Cheating on time. Being a cheap Charlie. They are a lot of rude punters out there. Be a working girl for a day and you will understand.
You are not the only one.
Photos, videos, any kind of recording is strictly forbidden. Violators are thrown out (and probably beaten up before they are thrown out).
Don't worry. Your biggest worry after you get over initial jitters is stuff like "who gives the best blow job". In other words, nice problems.Sadly, phone use is now very prevalent at many clubs. We have seen a few people post pictures from the club taken with those phones. So, if you want to be 100% safe, better not to go.
Punting101
07-27-17, 06:26
Sadly, phone use is now very prevalent at many clubs. We have seen a few people post pictures from the club taken with those phones. So, if you want to be 100% safe, better not to go.Are you saying that sometimes pictures of the insides of the clubs surface online, and faces of the customers are visible? I f that is the case, unfortunately I won't go, the pleasure is not worth the risk of being outed for having gone to such a place.
ExpatLover
07-27-17, 08:39
I was wondering, how much privacy and discretion can I expect in a typical FKK club? Specifically I am thinking about going to FKK Artemis in Berlin. I will be in Berlin for a while, and I was thinking to go check out the scene. But I come from the kind of family and close knit community where my life and reputation would be effectively ruined if it ever leaked out, or anyone ever found out that I visited such a place.
So my question is, can I be 100% certain that my visit will be discreet and private? Is there any possibility that photos or videos of any sort should leak out that would show customers' faces? I would love to visit, but I want to feel 100% calm if I'll go visit that it's my personal secret. I'm sure a large percentage of customers are married men going without their wives' knowledge, so there must be some robust effort taken to ensure people's privacy. Anyone has any insights?Most of local men including Italian, French, dutsch who are often in the clubs 1 or 2 times a week are not married or having a girl friend, to be 100% save you just have to stay outside, nobody can guarantee you 100% safety knowing that more and more girls are using the phones, men also. Even some people can take the picture from your car or from you when you enter the club, now you can also assume your behavior in case what will be far better for your mental health also.
Your sophistry is unimpressive mr O!I can accept you don't agree with me and am willing to discuss anything.
However you accuse me of sophistry, which means you are saying that I am intending to deceive by use of clever but false arguments.
So you deny me the right of being honest, even if mistaken.
I guess tolerance of diverse opinions is not your strong point.
BigBuddy69
07-27-17, 13:22
Don't worry Optimist you're probably one of the most rational men on this board!
UltraHappy
07-27-17, 14:03
Are you saying that sometimes pictures of the insides of the clubs surface online, and faces of the customers are visible? I f that is the case, unfortunately I won't go, the pleasure is not worth the risk of being outed for having gone to such a place.The exchange here is akin to the following conversation:
You: "I want to travel from London to Frankfurt by plane. But is it safe? Is it possible that the plane might crash?
Me: "Well yes, it's rather safe, although it's possible that the plane might crash. Planes have crashed before and it is theoretically possible that your plane might fall out of the sky and crash. But, this is very unlikely. Indeed, it is so unlikely, that it would be silly to not travel because of this fairly remote possibility of your specific plane crashing. ".
Aside: There are roughly 4 airplane accidents per every 1 million airplane departures.
You: "Are you saying that sometimes it is possible that my plane could crash, that I could actually die? If that is the case, unfortunately I won't go, the pleasure is not worth the risk of dying!
The risk of your picture showing up on the Internet from visiting an FKK is something like the risk of your plane crashing on the way to Germany. The only exception to this is if you are someone famous. If you are a nobody like me, then you are probably more likely to die in the plane than to be photographed in an FKK. So, yes, it's possible, but so unlikely that it's not worth thinking about -- unless you're Justin Bieber in Brazil.
Some FKKs like Mainhattan are super strict about cell phones in the club. Anyone seen with a phone in the club is immediately pounced on and scolded and sometimes even escorted to their locker to put their phone away. Sharks also has a somewhat strict cell phone policy. Oase is not so strict about cell phone usage, but there are security cameras everywhere. If a security camera or a girl notices anyone using a phone in an inappropriate manner, I wouldn't want to be that guy when security comes after that guy.
Again, if you're a nobody (not famous), then being photographed is so unlikely as to not constitute a rational concern.
Horny Harry
07-27-17, 15:12
Are you saying that sometimes pictures of the insides of the clubs surface online, and faces of the customers are visible? I f that is the case, unfortunately I won't go, the pleasure is not worth the risk of being outed for having gone to such a place.I've never seen faces of customers on the websites of clubs, all faces are always blurred.
In Sharks cell phones generally are not allowed, although I saw a few times how a group of Turkish / Arab looking guys (looked like a mafia guys: tattooed, muscled) were having loud telephone conversations upstairs in that one sofa which used to be a jacuzzi. Seemingly the staff did not dare to interfere, so they seemed to be well connected.
In GT they are very relaxed about mobile phones and both guests and some WG's are constantly checking their mobile phones, so if you're picky about this then GT is probably the place to avoid.
All in all, I wouldn't be worried at all about someone taking a picture of you, and I've never seen anyone in GT (or any other club) take pictures.
If you're worried about privacy then personally I would not be too worried about other people taking pictures (unless you're famous and easily recognisable), but instead it would perhaps be better to leave your own phone at home, or buy one of those 'anti radiation' cases for it so you can safely switch if off and nobody can track you to a club.
Don't worry Optimist you're probably one of the most rational men on this board!Until I meet a pretty girl, or even any girl willing to have sex with me LOL.
Privacy. As Horny Harry says there is little to worry about in terms of pictures appearing on the net, at least until face recognition becomes ubiquitous and effective. Even then as UH says, risk is relative, and flying to Germany probably has higher risk. Much more risky is having your phone with you if you have location identification turned on.
Horny Harry
07-27-17, 16:45
Much more risky is having your phone with you if you have location identification turned on.Even with this location identification switched 'off,' your phone can still transmit it's position because some spy apps (jealous wife?) could be running in the background and can bypass this setting. Even if you switch your phone to airplane mode (Apple), or even if you completely switch if off, some hacked phones can still transmit certain things.
The only way to know for sure that your phone is not transmitting anything is either to take the battery out, or in case of an iPhone where this is not possible, to place it in a Faraday / RF signal isolation bag.
They even sell those little Faraday bags for the keys of car keyless-entry systems, because thieves can copy the signal that these keys emit and either steal your entire car or they steal all accessories like airbags, navigation displays, xenon lights etc.
It's funny how 5 years ago some people were laughed at and jokingly told that they should wear a "tin-foiled hat," and now they sell these Faraday bags everywhere on the internet for your phone, tablet and car keys if you want privacy! 😂.
HH. Absolutely correct. Anyone really worried should take your advice.
I don't worry personally. But I do have a little case for my credit cards though so they can't be cloned: that worries me a bit
Cheers.
MarquisdeSade1
07-27-17, 17:32
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But I do have a little case for my credit cards though so they can't be cloned: that worries me a bit
Cheers.And another guy recently posted his biggest worry was how to get a decent blow job these days. See how diverse life can be?
ExpatLover
07-27-17, 19:33
Even with this location identification switched 'off,' your phone can still transmit it's position because some spy apps (jealous wife?) could be running in the background and can bypass this setting. Even if you switch your phone to airplane mode (Apple), or even if you completely switch if off, some hacked phones can still transmit certain things.
The only way to know for sure that your phone is not transmitting anything is either to take the battery out, or in case of an iPhone where this is not possible, to place it in a Faraday / RF signal isolation bag.
They even sell those little Faraday bags for the keys of car keyless-entry systems, because thieves can copy the signal that these keys emit and either steal your entire car or they steal all accessories like airbags, navigation displays, xenon lights etc.
It's funny how 5 years ago some people were laughed at and jokingly told that they should wear a "tin-foiled hat," and now they sell these Faraday bags everywhere on the internet for your phone, tablet and car keys if you want privacy! 😂.Or not to go mongering and to stay with your girlfriend / wife with all those play around how can you all still enjoy FKK, I am single and the things are far easier.
Neurosynth
07-28-17, 22:58
...The use if condoms in FKK is retarded...the smoke was so retarded there was a cloud over the yard everyday...This is both offensive and cruel.
Neurosynth
07-28-17, 23:41
... I generally had ZERO concern about getting a BBBJ in an FKK. In the USA, especially know with epidemic-level intravenous opioid addiction rampant, the risks of HIV or Hep-C are high, ... I've known too many mongers catch things, and now I pretty much save up for trips to Thailand and the Philippines.Comparison of national totals may not be predictive of the relative risk of prostitution due to a wide number of factors. In any case.
Incidence of HIV by country:
Philippines 0. 06%.
Germany 0. 15%.
USA 0. 6%.
Thailand 1. 13%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate
My current plan is to visit NRW and Hamburg during 4th week of August, but I am having second thoughts after reading few recent posts about weaker lineups during July and August months and they may not get to full strength until September. I thought summer months are the best months to visit clubs, Easter and Christmas were the only periods to avoid. I guess I may have to add summer months to that list.
Before I decide to change my travel plans I would like to hear opinions from members who frequent NRW and Hamburg clubs about lineup strength during July and August. Is it better to avoid traveling to Germany to visit FKKs during the 2 months in question? Do the lineups get to full strength by the middle of September?
My current plan is to visit NRW and Hamburg during 4th week of August, but I am having second thoughts after reading few recent posts about weaker lineups during July and August months and they may not get to full strength until September. I thought summer months are the best months to visit clubs, Easter and Christmas were the only periods to avoid. I guess I may have to add summer months to that list.
Before I decide to change my travel plans I would like to hear opinions from members who frequent NRW and Hamburg clubs about lineup strength during July and August. Is it better to avoid traveling to Germany to visit FKKs during the 2 months in question? Do the lineups get to full strength by the middle of September?Girls come and go on vacation all year around. Only minor differences really. The 2 last years I've spent a week at the end of July and lineups were above average at the clubs I visited.
Member #4585
07-30-17, 07:44
My current plan is to visit NRW and Hamburg during 4th week of August, but I am having second thoughts after reading few recent posts about weaker lineups during July and August months and they may not get to full strength until September. I thought summer months are the best months to visit clubs, Easter and Christmas were the only periods to avoid. I guess I may have to add summer months to that list.
Before I decide to change my travel plans I would like to hear opinions from members who frequent NRW and Hamburg clubs about lineup strength during July and August. Is it better to avoid traveling to Germany to visit FKKs during the 2 months in question? Do the lineups get to full strength by the middle of September?Correct on all counts depending on perspective.
MarquisdeSade1
07-30-17, 19:54
Marquis. It was great fun to meet you at both ends of your tour.
Maybe you over egg the pudding you are making, but it is refreshing to hear from someone who is not bound by the myth of FKK. As we discussed, I don't think your standards are too high: aiming to find character, integrity, and nice looks in a working girl is a reasonable target which many visitors don't even aim for.
A couple of points.
While in my opinion the looks of girls in FKK are less good than they used to be, it may partly be that you were working on the American concept of facial beauty. I remember when I first saw romanians: I thought they were all hideous. Then I looked more closely, and now I find the Romanian face really really attractive, and really don't like the American idea of beauty. As you say FKK is only suitable if one likes East European girls...While in my opinion the looks of girls in FKK are less good than they used to be, it may partly be that you were working on the American concept of facial beauty. I remember when I first saw Romanians: I thought they were all hideous. Then I looked more closely, and now I find the Romanian face really really attractive, and really don't like the American idea of beauty. As you say FKK is only suitable if one likes East European girls.
(east European, more specifically Romanian, when I think eastern European hookers I think, Kiev / Odessa).
ExpatLover
07-30-17, 21:49
My current plan is to visit NRW and Hamburg during 4th week of August, but I am having second thoughts after reading few recent posts about weaker lineups during July and August months and they may not get to full strength until September. I thought summer months are the best months to visit clubs, Easter and Christmas were the only periods to avoid. I guess I may have to add summer months to that list.
Before I decide to change my travel plans I would like to hear opinions from members who frequent NRW and Hamburg clubs about lineup strength during July and August. Is it better to avoid traveling to Germany to visit FKKs during the 2 months in question? Do the lineups get to full strength by the middle of September?Expect at least a reduction of 25% of the number of girls in each club due to holidays.
Hiya guys,
I am heading to Germany next week and is split between going to either Dusseldorf, Frankfurt or Berlin.
Having already been to Artemis, I want to try something else as well but having a hard time deciding, especially because.
I know nothing about how the FKK scene looks like at this time of year. From what I have read so far Dusseldorf looks good as.
It has quite a few clubs near each other, but I may be wrong.
If you can offer any pointers or nudges to help my indecision I would be grateful.
Thanks.
ExpatLover
07-31-17, 17:43
Hiya guys,
I am heading to Germany next week and is split between going to either Dusseldorf, Frankfurt or Berlin.
Having already been to Artemis, I want to try something else as well but having a hard time deciding, especially because.
I know nothing about how the FKK scene looks like at this time of year. From what I have read so far Dusseldorf looks good as.
It has quite a few clubs near each other, but I may be wrong.
If you can offer any pointers or nudges to help my indecision I would be grateful.
Thanks.Just be aware that in Berlin you only get 1 FKK Artemis, nice premises, large LU mostly sili and the girls are older than in other FKK, entry fee expensive, service poor. Dusseldorf: not my cup of tee, but some guys really like, not real FKK (all girl nude), many Turkish etc. Except GT where there is a kind of door policy. Frankfurt, 3 gig clubs around, be prepare to have a average low LU, worse that I was expecting in the last 2/3 weeks back.
Hiya guys,
I am heading to Germany next week and is split between going to either Dusseldorf, Frankfurt or Berlin.
Having already been to Artemis, I want to try something else as well but having a hard time deciding, especially because.
I know nothing about how the FKK scene looks like at this time of year. From what I have read so far Dusseldorf looks good as.
It has quite a few clubs near each other, but I may be wrong.
If you can offer any pointers or nudges to help my indecision I would be grateful.
Thanks.Depends completely on your taste (you did not write a report about Artemis or other clubs, yet, so please do!): do you like large clubs with many girls, good optics, but less than 20% chance on good DFK / BBBJ / etc service? Then go to Frankfurt and choose Sharks or Oase, but be aware of the tourist / golddiggers. Typical tourist clubs for people outside Euope who seem to like this kind of clubs / offering. Looks most like Artemis, so if you did like that, go for Frankfurt.
If you like smaller, intimate clubs, where service of the girls (DFK, etc) is more important than looks (but the girls still look more than ok, but more GFE than PSE) go for NRW, but avoid Dusseldorf itself (Oceans is an Artemis-wannabe, but much worse, Dolce Vita famous for upselling and Acapulco Gold went downjill after the new owner took it over from Haus Panthera). Better go to either the Dortmund (Luder Lounge) or Cologne (Babylon, Bernds, Living Room) area, or even little more south to Finca Erotica. Only go here if you like smallers clubs. Larger clubs in NRW like Golden Time are worse than Sharks, so avoid.
Of course it also depends on the exact day of your visit.
ExpatLover
07-31-17, 18:49
Depends completely on your taste (you did not write a report about Artemis or other clubs, yet, so please do!): do you like large clubs with many girls, good optics, but less than 20% chance on good DFK / BBBJ / etc service? Then go to Frankfurt and choose Sharks or Oase, but be aware of the tourist / golddiggers. Typical tourist clubs for people outside Euope who seem to like this kind of clubs / offering. Looks most like Artemis, so if you did like that, go for Frankfurt.
If you like smaller, intimate clubs, where service of the girls (DFK, etc) is more important than looks (but the girls still look more than ok, but more GFE than PSE) go for NRW, but avoid Dusseldorf itself (Oceans is an Artemis-wannabe, but much worse, Dolce Vita famous for upselling and Acapulco Gold went downjill after the new owner took it over from Haus Panthera). Better go to either the Dortmund (Luder Lounge) or Cologne (Babylon, Bernds, Living Room) area, or even little more south to Finca Erotica. Only go here if you like smallers clubs. Larger clubs in NRW like Golden Time are worse than Sharks, so avoid.
Of course it also depends on the exact day of your visit.Sorry but I can t agree with you, Finca has the same owner than World but for my taste the LU is really so so, may be 25 girls some old one, not 1 fresh sexy girl, this club looks more like a recycling club (sorry for that) dream for me will never happen there. I don't pay for sex I am paying for dreams.
Of course Maxim has a highly subjective take on it.
Depends completely on your taste (you did not write a report about Artemis or other clubs, yet, so please do!): do you like large clubs with many girls, good optics, but less than 20% chance on good DFK / BBBJ / etc service? Then go to Frankfurt and choose Sharks or Oase, but be aware of the tourist / golddiggers. Typical tourist clubs for people outside Euope who seem to like this kind of clubs / offering. Looks most like Artemis, so if you did like that, go for Frankfurt.
If you like smaller, intimate clubs, where service of the girls (DFK, etc) is more important than looks (but the girls still look more than ok, but more GFE than PSE) go for NRW, but avoid Dusseldorf itself (Oceans is an Artemis-wannabe, but much worse, Dolce Vita famous for upselling and Acapulco Gold went downjill after the new owner took it over from Haus Panthera). Better go to either the Dortmund (Luder Lounge) or Cologne (Babylon, Bernds, Living Room) area, or even little more south to Finca Erotica. Only go here if you like smallers clubs. Larger clubs in NRW like Golden Time are worse than Sharks, so avoid.
Of course it also depends on the exact day of your visit.Hey,
Thanks for the reply, it helped a lot already.
I will post a Artemis together with the reports of this trip.
I liked Artemis, I liked the large selection of girls and the FKK itself. How do the FKKs in Frankfurt stand up to Artemis girl service and look wise?
As bad service and no GFE is at times really off putting for me, I am leaning towards Cologne but how small are these FKKs and how does the price / looks compare.
To the other places?
Is English as prevalent as in Berlin?
I apologize if I am asking a lot of questions. Thanks again for the reply.
Of course Maxim has a highly subjective take on it.Thanks for the reply.
Can you elaborate on that?
I prefer GFE but really like a big club and selection.
BigBuddy69
08-01-17, 05:52
Like everyone else I think. I'm sure Spermbirds will be really happy with his GT opinion. But you can't deny that Sharks is not the better place if you want to be sure to have a good session whatever money you put into.
And actually LR is closer to Duss than to Koln.
KC Questor
08-01-17, 06:01
Is it allowed to have a laptop or tablet in the FKK clubs? Is there wifi? If I am going to be there for the day, it would be nice to be able to do do some work in between sessions. I know they may be concerned about cameras, butI can put tape over the camera on my computer.
Banana Boi
08-01-17, 06:36
Laptops and tablets definitely allowed at GT, even in the main room. Definitely not allowed in Samya and I assume Mondial. Seen guys getting chewed out for even pulling their phone out in Samya.
BigBuddy69
08-01-17, 06:47
It depends of the clubs.
Laptops and tablets definitely allowed at GT, even in the main room. Definitely not allowed in Samya and I assume Mondial. Seen guys getting chewed out for even pulling their phone out in Samya.No problem about phone at Samya, LR, GT, Aca, VVertigo, as long You don t take photos.
Around Frankfurt they are phobic against electronics. In Sharks I even got hassled for having a mobile in my robe pocket.
GT and LR allow. La Luna also. Also I think Acapulco (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Christian G
08-01-17, 10:05
Also I think Acapulco (someone correct me if I'm wrong).Yes, I used my smartphone at ACA last year. Also the 2 ex paushalclub Bochum and Dortmund (now sauna clubs) were very eletronics friendly with a good wifi.
BigBuddy69
08-01-17, 10:38
Aca gold: allowed only in the lockers.
Finca: same thing.
Sixsense: forbidden downstairs.
ExpatLover
08-01-17, 11:53
Around Frankfurt they are phobic against electronics. In Sharks I even got hassled for having a mobile in my robe pocket.
GT and LR allow. La Luna also. Also I think Acapulco (someone correct me if I'm wrong).Oase allows you to use your mobile even they will provide free WiFi.
Polyamorist
08-01-17, 12:02
Of course Maxim has a highly subjective take on it.Subjective, but also mostly correct. I only disagree on Aca Gold, which I think is still comparatively decent. Some people still like GT though not me. As for Sharks I am baffled by the lemming-like behavour of so many mongers: "The staff were rude, the girls were gross and the one or two attractive ones just scammed me, the pimps and drug pushers cock-blocked me, when am I going back? Tomorrow, woohoo!" As a result, Sharks is one of the most popular threads on this forum.
ExpatLover
08-01-17, 14:03
Subjective, but also mostly correct. I only disagree on Aca Gold, which I think is still comparatively decent. Some people still like GT though not me. As for Sharks I am baffled by the lemming-like behavour of so many mongers: "The staff were rude, the girls were gross and the one or two attractive ones just scammed me, the pimps and drug pushers cock-blocked me, when am I going back? Tomorrow, woohoo!" As a result, Sharks is one of the most popular threads on this forum.Why we all return to Shark it is simply, the largest LU so always one girl that we can session, big premises so even we don t go to the room it is possible to relax without stress, good sauna, decent food, good coffee, possible to get discount: sorry but all in all which FKK is offering more? I forgot the great massage.
Polyamorist. I have much the same feelings about Sharks and GT, so am wondering which clubs you like best and why.
Cheers.
Just for info. Today I got a message from a girl on holiday in Romania asking me to send her a loan for her birthdays costs, promising to give it back with free rooms in September. I replied with a refusal.
I guess she could do what she promises, but I'd not give odds of 1000 to 1.
I know this sort from thing is common but want to post it for the benefit of everybody.
Also this week a girl blocked me on WhatsApp. I guess she decided getting money from me was like getting blood from a stone.
BigBuddy69
08-01-17, 14:44
Actually I never had this kind of surprises on whatsapp.
ExpatLover
08-01-17, 14:52
Just for info. Today I got a message from a girl on holiday in Romania asking me to send her a loan for her birthdays costs, promising to give it back with free rooms in September. I replied with a refusal.
I guess she could do that, but I'd not give odds of 1000 to 1.
I know this sort from thing is common but want to post it for the benefit of everybody.
Also this week a girl blocked me on WhatsApp. I guess she decided getting money from me was like trying blood from a stone.Very common to get messages like, please send me money, my mother is sick, I need to pay my lawyer, it is really better to restrict the number of contacts with the girls outside the clubs.
Subjective, but also mostly correct. I only disagree on Aca Gold, which I think is still comparatively decent. Some people still like GT though not me. As for Sharks I am baffled by the lemming-like behavour of so many mongers: "The staff were rude, the girls were gross and the one or two attractive ones just scammed me, the pimps and drug pushers cock-blocked me, when am I going back? Tomorrow, woohoo!" As a result, Sharks is one of the most popular threads on this forum.I don't agree on Oceans, but that's well known. And I don't see Oase / Sharks as being Artemis 'type' of clubs. Palace perhaps. I agree with you on Sharks though. To me it is a club with fewer and fewer interesting girls, and my favourites there doesn't work all the time. So it can be disappointing. Thankfully there usually are a few OK reserve girls sometimes (more just optics than service on these) who can make time less dull on the girls front. Also the 20% chance of DFK etc are personal to maxim.
But he forgets the facility side of it. 'smaller intimate' is just a nice way of saying 'facilities blows', so don't prepare to spend any time there.
And you can definitely find the same level of hot girls in mrw as in Hessen. They are just spread more out between maybe twice as many clubs.
But here is a rule of thumb: in any club anywhere, the less pretty girls always try to make up for their lacking looks by providing a little bit more. Or at least they have to in order to keep making a living. The gems to me are those who has both. Service and looks. But these thing (both service and looks) can be highly subjective. To me, only service without the looks is not enough. But one can learn to travel in minefields after awhile.
Hey,
Thanks for the reply, it helped a lot already.
I will post a Artemis together with the reports of this trip.
I liked Artemis, I liked the large selection of girls and the FKK itself. How do the FKKs in Frankfurt stand up to Artemis girl service and look wise?
As bad service and no GFE is at times really off putting for me, I am leaning towards Cologne but how small are these FKKs and how does the price / looks compare.
To the other places?
Is English as prevalent as in Berlin?
I apologize if I am asking a lot of questions. Thanks again for the reply.If you like the larger collection of girls and FKK, go for Sharks. As I wrote, you have to ask the girl BEFORE you go to the room if she makes the service you want, if so, you can have good sessions there (but beware you have a 1:5 success ratio, which might be slightly better than in Artemis).
In NRW probably only Golden Time will give you a similar experience. The smaller clubs, with much more GFE services, don't have so many girls of course, but if you are visiting on Thursday, Friday or Saturday, Babylon and Living Room are good options (look for example at the line up of Babylon coming week).
Not everyone speaks English, but many girls do (on Babylon website you can see which girl speaks what language).
Enjoy!
Member #4585
08-01-17, 19:05
Just for info. Today I got a message from a girl on holiday in Romania asking me to send her a loan for her birthdays costs, promising to give it back with free rooms in September. I replied with a refusal.
I guess she could do what she promises, but I'd not give odds of 1000 to 1.
I know this sort from thing is common but want to post it for the benefit of everybody.
Also this week a girl blocked me on WhatsApp. I guess she decided getting money from me was like getting blood from a stone.Hey Optimist, I have been there.
I get girls asking for money for sick mother, sick brother, sick dog, sick daughter, sick father, their hospital bills for all sorts of ailments. Man, Romania must have the sickest people in the world with the amount of sick people needing money for help.
Then there is money for flights since they spent all their money at home on partying and need to extend their holidays or money for getting pregnant since you have been bare backing the girl and she claim you are the father and she need to take a test or go see a doctor to make sure she is not pregnant.
I have had girls usually change phone number. Then their whatsapp does not work and the girl does not tell you her new number. When you see the girl again she always say she lose their phone or their battery died. But what they mean is that they buy a new SIM card with a new number and did not what you to follow her. I have not yet had a girl block me on Whatsapp but definitely had one girl block me on Facebook. You could see her whole family and friends there.
Guys give money and some don't give money. It depends on the girl. I have yet to see any payback on any of the "help" given but sometimes you get small gifts (around €60-70 in value) back in return so the girl does think of you. Then the girls let you take movies or pictures of you fucking or together so there is that is well. I guess these girls do not want pictures of your cock in her mouth or your cock in her asshole on her Facebook for all her friends and family to see.
Member #4585
08-01-17, 19:15
Actually I never had this kind of surprises on whatsapp.You are either:
1.) Lucky or
2) the girl realizes that you have no sympathy or
3) the girl realizes you have no money or.
4) you have not gotten "close" enough to the girl to form a trusting bond which she can exploit
Bitumen. Two excellent summaries written with panache from you.
Only thing I've never been asked is to help a girl who claims she's pregnant.Been asked to pay for home Internet (so she can video call), cigarettes, food, taking parents on holiday, cancer care for mother, operation for blibd brother, skin cancer removal and so on. All the time the girl has some expensive clothes, unlike mine :)
It entertains me to see how long it is before a girl I get close to mistakes my inoffensiveness for being an idiot. Sometimes if the girl is really skilled in playing the long game I play along: at the end I then congratulate her on her abilities.
Of course most girls don't do this, just the ones I let think I am nice but with no sense.
Member #4585
08-01-17, 20:06
Bitumen. Two excellent summaries written with panache from you.
Only thing I've never been asked is to help a girl who claims she's pregnant.Been asked to pay for home Internet (so she can video call), cigarettes, food, taking parents on holiday, cancer care for mother, operation for blibd brother, skin cancer removal and so on. All the time the girl has some expensive clothes, unlike mine :)
It entertains me to see how long it is before a girl I get close to mistakes my inoffensiveness for being an idiot. Sometimes if the girl is really skilled in playing the long game I play along: at the end I then congratulate her on her abilities.
Of course most girls don't do this, just the ones I let think I am nice but with no sense.I had a small panic attack when she write me she needed to tell me something. She call me and say she think she is pregnant since she is sick. Okay, panic over and logic mode kicks in but you have this inkling feeling that all that bare backing and come in pussy may have gotten pass the pill or maybe she does not take the pill since you never asked and she did warn you not to come inside her. Anyway just for the sheer ingenuity of the story is entertaining enough.
The usual one is sick mother or they themselves are sick and cannot afford the bills. The amounts requested are not huge and would not be out of place to what one would spend on a slightly longer session with extras added in so when its that perspective it seems a doddle.
Yup, it does seem like a bit of a game to see if a girl sees you as a push over to swindle cash from you or she treats you extra nice in the room so you "fall" for her.
Then there is the emotional drama that she says you do not trust her and you are not her friend or she do so much for me in the club and I do not help her. Or she says "I do not ask unless I really need the help". Man, too much drama. This is better than Game of Thrones machinations since you are not the voyeur but a participant in the drama. If we meet one day Optimist, you and I have a lot of war stories to share.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee3Jh5qRDMo
It has been emotional - Vinnie Jones in Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.
You are either:
1.) Lucky or
2) the girl realizes that you have no sympathy or
3) the girl realizes you have no money or.
4) you have not gotten "close" enough to the girl to form a trusting bond which she can exploitNever happened me either.
Then again, not many girls have my number and I don't have theirs, since I see no point in it. Only to let me know when they are away from club.
But a few from LR have it and none of them have ever asked me for anything. Actually I owe one of them money for an extended room which I had no money for, LOL.
But she never got back or asked me to pay it.
So I assume they took me for a cheap bastard, maybe the non-existent tip gave it away. LOL!
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