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Hello people,
Just once again briefly for information to substantiate my thoughts. An excerpt from the law (google translation).
Law for the protection of persons working in prostitution (prostitution law. ProstSchG) 26 duties towards prostitutes; Restriction of instructions and specifications.
(2) The operator of a prostitution business as well as the persons acting for the operator may not give prostitutes any instructions within the meaning of 3 (1) of the Prostitution Act. Other requirements regarding the nature or extent of the provision of sexual services are also inadmissible.
Hope the link works:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/aktuell.html
(who has time in the club can translate everything).
Of course, I do not want to turn the forum into a legal discussion forum. This is just tiring.
In addition, I think and hope that the club managers are already very well advised and know what they are doing and what they should not do.
Seeing the whole thing a bit relaxed will not hurt either. In this sense.
ExpatLover
11-08-17, 18:00
Bad news indeed. I take it the visitors themselves do not believe in the pimp charade. They might as well say they've come to check whether girls are not growing magic mushrooms under their kitchen sink. The purpose of those visits was most likely to ascertain that these addresses were not fictional, ie that girls really "lived" there, really paid a rent etc. Such checks are already in place in Germany regardless of prostitution. These rents the girls now have to pay will have to be compensated one way or another. Authorities also want to make sure the number of people registered at a given address is commensurate with that address's housing capacity. I doubt 10 girls registering as tenants of the same room would wash.
I told one of my regulars in Munich I wouldn't mind her registering at my downtown rented flat in Munich for free if it were not for the fact that when I left the country she would be entitled to stay there and if she defaulted on the rent I would have to pay as the rental agreement is on me. The girl said "anyway it wouldn't be good for you because they would say you're a pimp". I hadn't thought of that one but she must have been right. If I don't require the girl to pay me any rent she is a cohabitant, ie I'm her boyfriend/pimp. And if we are both adamant we sleep in separate beds and I'm no getting any money from her they infer I'm still getting paid in sex so I may be in for a charge of sexual abuse. If I have her pay a rent, I'm infringing the rental agreement (no "sub-renting"). These catch 22 situations surely restrict girls' options when it comes to find a cheap way of complying with registration. On the whole Germany is not a country where you can easily find workarounds for legal requirements unless the law has a gaping loophole.Recommend all of us to be careful in the coming months, to provide a address to a girl could be at high risk like meeting girls from the club outside the clubs, over the years so many guys faced challenging issues. We have to wait the stabilization of the situation may be mid 2018 to see how the things are working. Very high pressure and stress on some girls because end of the year is coming fast and they have to decide if they will register or not.
Neurosynth
11-08-17, 20:20
The girls are taking the risk with a well known customer as they probably trust them more to keep quiet about the illegal practice. A non-regular might spread the news within the club by talking loudly to friends with other girls hearing it or telling girls that he got BBBJ from one girl so he wants from her also. That could lead to getting caught. I am with you, otherwise it will be difficult to be caught.This is sheer speculation and nothing more. The law is unenforcible. The girls aren't subject to arrest or fine even if they "confess. " The men aren't going to be fined because they are going to be behind a closed door, and the complicit girl certainly won't want to report him. And even if she did at best that establishes a he-said-she-said situation.
The only way this law can make a difference is by stoking irrational fear. This BBBJ and BBFS ban will only work if people self-censor based on that irrational fear. Making posts like the above could perhaps make the law a self-fulfilling prophecy, although I doubt men's sexual urges and marketplace forces will allow even that.
ExpatLover
11-08-17, 21:29
This is sheer speculation and nothing more. The law is unenforcible. The girls aren't subject to arrest or fine even if they "confess. " The men aren't going to be fined because they are going to be behind a closed door, and the complicit girl certainly won't want to report him. And even if she did at best that establishes a he-said-she-said situation.
The only way this law can make a difference is by stoking irrational fear. This BBBJ and BBFS ban will only work if people self-censor based on that irrational fear. Making posts like the above could perhaps make the law a self-fulfilling prophecy, although I doubt men's sexual urges and marketplace forces will allow even that.You are right but we should not forget that the main target of the new law is to reduce the offer by putting a lot of obligations on the girls, being register, having a tax number, visit doctors etc. But to make it more acceptable they say they want protect the health of the girls, I don't believe that even 1 girl got sick from a BBBJ.
This is sheer speculation and nothing more. The law is unenforcible. The girls aren't subject to arrest or fine even if they "confess. " The men aren't going to be fined because they are going to be behind a closed door, and the complicit girl certainly won't want to report him. And even if she did at best that establishes a he-said-she-said situation.
The only way this law can make a difference is by stoking irrational fear. This BBBJ and BBFS ban will only work if people self-censor based on that irrational fear. Making posts like the above could perhaps make the law a self-fulfilling prophecy, although I doubt men's sexual urges and marketplace forces will allow even that.100% correct. I find these endless posts and speculations about the "law" utterly boring and pointless.
The law is unenforcible. Common sense say that the CBJ law is not enforcible. Is anyone disagreeing with you? I don't understand why you continue to repeat the obvious?
The girls aren't subject to arrest or fine even if they "confess. " The men aren't going to be fined because they are going to be behind a closed door, and the complicit girl certainly won't want to report him. Who is expressing concern about getting arrested or fined? At this time, the only enforcers are club management at certain clubs. If there are any concerns, it is about the long term general availability of BBBJ or that their favorite WGs may be kicked out due to breaking club rules.
Member #4581
11-09-17, 03:11
The only reason club managers are the enforcers of the law (assuming they are), is that they fear some consequences of flouting the law. If there were no negative consequences, they would not be enforcers.
Neurosynth
11-09-17, 06:09
Common sense say that the CBJ law is not enforcible. Is anyone disagreeing with you? I don't understand why you continue to repeat the obvious?Apparently it's not so obvious, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing all of these paranoid posts about the law. Of course people are disagreeing with me. People who think a law is unenforcible wouldn't worry about posting about BB services and BB providers.
If there are any concerns, it is about the long term general availability of BBBJ or that their favorite WGs may be kicked out due to breaking club rules.But that's exactly the point. One more time. If the law is unenforcible then it shouldn't impact the availability of BB services, and BB providers and even the clubs need not worry about making BB services available.
The *only* way this law can make an impact is if people worry about it despite it being toothless. So people should stop speculating about the negative impact of a law that can't be enforced.
Triptogamont
11-09-17, 08:48
Common sense say that the CBJ law is not enforcible.Common sense has never actually been "common".
The registration requirements are mandatory from January, but are voluntary before then. I have been told that girls who have registered have been visited at their place of residence by the authorities, checking on whether the girls are having to pay money over to pimps. That is the way it was put to me. Registration didn't seem to be any worry for the girls concerned.Registration is probably not a worry, and might even bring some advantages, to girls who are living here essentially alone after coming over from Romania or wherever and later plan to move back there or perhaps somewhere else. For German girls, or girls who have lived here a long time and are settled in and have family etc but secretly work in clubs etc, perhaps part-time, I have credible information that many of them are stopping at the end of the year because the registration carries too high a risk of someone finding out what they do.
Apparently it's not so obvious, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing all of these paranoid posts about the law. Of course people are disagreeing with me.Mongers are worried about actions of club management (see RN's posts). Not the actions of authorities. The only consequence at this time is WGs getting kicked out of the club, which is due to violation of club rules.
For the law to be enforced, authorities would need sufficient proof, then the male would get arrested and fined. As you say the authorities would literally have to be hiding under the bed.
Club managers, on the other hand, can enforce rules without sufficient proof. Club managers kick WGs due to "he said, she said" all the time.
Because in some clubs CBJ only is the norm now. Or BBBJ just for regulars as the clubs are kicking girls out if they do BBBJ.
There is a club with a penalty for the girls if they do BBBJ. How to find out? I don't know. If a girl is caught repeatedly she'll be fired. That's what management is telling the girls making it harder to get BBBJ. At least for non regulars. Doesn't affect me.
If the law is unenforcible then it shouldn't impact the availability of BB services, and BB providers and even the clubs need not worry about making BB services available.
Clubs can claim plausible deniability (assuming BBBJ does not happen in public areas monitored by CCTV). I do not think club managers are worried about fines or being arrested. Club managers are worried about increase of a law enforcement presence.
For fans, legendary Lisa. De ex GT, the real one, not the new very limited porn actress, is now working at YY. She lost weight, blond now with a woman look.
At YY, brunette with white skin, Michele from Czech Republic, some German girls, Sonia from Slovakia ex GT. Some beautiful bodies, but pretty faces are rare for me.
Good foods, entry 50 before 2 pm. Relax room on first floor is good to sleep.
Last night I visited one of the major Hessen clubs and observed a girl openly performing BBBJ on a customer in the (now re-modeled) kino. The girl happens to be one of the (very) long timers at this club (close to ten years working there, perhaps?) and clearly passed through the era when this kind of public foreplay was the norm. All the same, it was heart- warming to see given our current historical context.
No need to name the club since it should be obvious from my text. However I thought this might somehow be relevant to the current discussion.
ExpatLover
11-09-17, 15:35
Registration is probably not a worry, and might even bring some advantages, to girls who are living here essentially alone after coming over from Romania or wherever and later plan to move back there or perhaps somewhere else. For German girls, or girls who have lived here a long time and are settled in and have family etc but secretly work in clubs etc, perhaps part-time, I have credible information that many of them are stopping at the end of the year because the registration carries too high a risk of someone finding out what they do.Fully right but also Romanian girls who are not telling the family that they work in the clubs are seriously considering to quit, they don't want to take any risk.
Does anyone know how much the registration costs?. I was told 200 euros but I didn't believe it.
Registration is probably not a worry, and might even bring some advantages, to girls who are living here essentially alone after coming over from Romania or wherever and later plan to move back there or perhaps somewhere else. For German girls, or girls who have lived here a long time and are settled in and have family etc but secretly work in clubs etc, perhaps part-time, I have credible information that many of them are stopping at the end of the year because the registration carries too high a risk of someone finding out what they do.Do you have proof of this? Doesn't registration depends on Germany state governments?
ResidentOfMars
11-09-17, 20:00
Generally, how much do the girls want to save before they quit?
PussyLiccker
11-09-17, 20:40
Siri, you see Fabienne, blonde at YY?
I don't remember how looks Fabienne ex GT, I just remember she was very friend with Rachel for a while.
It's funny that people (both the working girls and the clients) want to go to Switzerland and Austria in 2018 cause both of those countries require registration too.
Does anyone know how much the registration costs?. I was told 200 euros but I didn't believe it.Hello 3 star senior member Optimist,
Now it's getting really serious and the fun is over. I have never ever registered as a male prostitute in Germany. This is no joke.
Nevertheless, this is my first advice to all you guys out there, if you spend happy holidays in Germany again and have some time, just sign up as a prostitute, then you know how the game is going.
Now for the fun part.
The law does not specify the cost of registration, if a girl is encountered in her work without a certificate of registration in the context of a check, she may face a fine of up to 1000 euros. But the fine does not have to be raised, but it can. Maybe she will never be controlled.
The cost of the application. An example.
After what I know, a typical ID card for a German citizen costs about 35 euros, plus costs for passport photos, which are about 10 euros for 4 to 6 pictures. I suspect that the costs of signing up for the girls are similar. At the most, but only as far as the actual registration is concerned.
There will certainly be additional costs. Unfortunately, I can not give you any details. But I think HesseBub could know it.
Furthermore, I can imagine that many girls were previously advised by a lawyer or had to seek advice before they speak with the German authorities.
So the actual registration should not cost anything up to 40 Euro? With additional costs for lawyer and other the sum of 200 euros could be quite realistic.
But I just speculate and can not give any substantiated information.
Do you have proof of this? Doesn't registration depends on Germany state governments?The law is national, administration of registration is by the states.
Sven was not claiming to have proof, only credible information. Like me he was only reporting what girls had said, no more, no less.
How would someone outside of gov would know the girl works as a working girl? Something tells me this aspect of the new law would get thrown out of court or unenforced by state governments.
ExpatLover
11-10-17, 09:33
Hello 3 star senior member Optimist,
Now it's getting really serious and the fun is over. I have never ever registered as a male prostitute in Germany. This is no joke.
Nevertheless, this is my first advice to all you guys out there, if you spend happy holidays in Germany again and have some time, just sign up as a prostitute, then you know how the game is going.
Now for the fun part.
The law does not specify the cost of registration, if a girl is encountered in her work without a certificate of registration in the context of a check, she may face a fine of up to 1000 euros. But the fine does not have to be raised, but it can. Maybe she will never be controlled.
The cost of the application. An example..You have a wrong understanding, the girls will not be allowed to enter the clubs, no serious club will accept a girl without registration, the risk is too high for them.
Member #4585
11-10-17, 09:55
. I was just surprised to hear that this "big" club had such meeting with the girls. I guess when it is the bottom line profit they are dealing with they don't care about the girls.
DrPoon, you have no PM capability. But if you look at clubs I visit, you can probably guess it.Yes thanks we did work it out in the end.
Rogue Nation
11-10-17, 18:21
The only reason club managers are the enforcers of the law (assuming they are), is that they fear some consequences of flouting the law. If there were no negative consequences, they would not be enforcers.That's exactly the point. It has been discussed before. Some clubs are enforcing CBJ. So there are consequences for us mongers.
Kosher Kowboy
11-11-17, 17:42
I have a guy I know from my Spanish school who is dark skinned but not a black man nor Mexican. He has been told by others there are clubs in Germany that have turned people away as well as girls. He is headed to Europe and might be interested in an FKK Club. He has already ruled out Dietzenbach as he finds it appalling and absolutely disgusting to even read about.
He is interested in the upper end clean and hygienic ones. To be specific, Sharks, Palace and Oase. I can not answer his question although I would assume both the clubs and the girls have the right to refuse a customer?
How often and ' to whom' does this happen to by either the clubs themselves or the WG's?
ResidentOfMars
11-11-17, 17:55
I have a guy I know from my Spanish school who is dark skinned but not a black man nor Mexican. He has been told by others there are clubs in Germany that have turned people away as well as girls. He is headed to Europe and might be interested in an FKK Club. He has already ruled out Dietzenbach as he finds it appalling and absolutely disgusting to even read about.
He is interested in the upper end clean and hygienic ones. To be specific, Sharks, Palace and Oase. I can not answer his question although I would assume both the clubs and the girls have the right to refuse a customer?
How often and ' to whom' does this happen to by either the clubs themselves or the WG's?I have seen blacks and dark skinned Indian mongers at Sharks, so that club itself will not bar entry.
I have a guy I know from my Spanish school who is dark skinned but not a black man nor Mexican. He has been told by others there are clubs in Germany that have turned people away as well as girls. He is headed to Europe and might be interested in an FKK Club. He has already ruled out Dietzenbach as he finds it appalling and absolutely disgusting to even read about.
He is interested in the upper end clean and hygienic ones. To be specific, Sharks, Palace and Oase. I can not answer his question although I would assume both the clubs and the girls have the right to refuse a customer?
How often and ' to whom' does this happen to by either the clubs themselves or the WG's?Very few problems. Possibly at Golden Time, especially if arriving late and scruffy and uncouth. Technically it is illegal to refuse entry on grounds of race, except to a private event. Girls: well that is up to them. One girl refused me because I was over 50. No comeback
It really is no problem for the clubs he wants to go to. I bet the people telling him that clubs turn people away are not talking from firsthand experience. Tell him not to rule anything out, but to go to any club and see if he likes it.
No such thing as really clean and hygenic clubs. If you kiss a girl, breathe germ laden air, breathe other peoples cigarette smoke, eat antibiotic laden meat, then what is clean club?
Sharks will welcome him as a tourist
He is interested in the upper end clean and hygienic ones. To be specific, Sharks, Palace and Oase. I can not answer his question although I would assume both the clubs and the girls have the right to refuse a customer?
They're the three clubs I always visit. Won't be an issue at any of those clubs -are nearly always a few brown and black guys at all these clubs.
ExpatLover
11-11-17, 20:45
I have a guy I know from my Spanish school who is dark skinned but not a black man nor Mexican. He has been told by others there are clubs in Germany that have turned people away as well as girls. He is headed to Europe and might be interested in an FKK Club. He has already ruled out Dietzenbach as he finds it appalling and absolutely disgusting to even read about.
He is interested in the upper end clean and hygienic ones. To be specific, Sharks, Palace and Oase. I can not answer his question although I would assume both the clubs and the girls have the right to refuse a customer?
How often and ' to whom' does this happen to by either the clubs themselves or the WG's?Again what is this kind of creasy report, he will be welcome in all the clubs, please stop to create problems.
So the actual registration should not cost anything up to 40 Euro? With additional costs for lawyer and other the sum of 200 euros could be quite realistic.
But I just speculate and can not give any substantiated information.Why would they need a lawyer?
ExpatLover
11-12-17, 07:03
Why would they need a lawyer?Most of the girls I spoke with, have done the registration with the support of a lawyer, the cost is around 800 euros, most of the girls are not fluent enough in German to deal with all the papers, they also use the lawyer for the income declaration.
Technically it is illegal to refuse entry on grounds of race, except to a private event. Girls: well that is up to them. One girl refused me because I was over 50. No comebackJust got an idea. Freedom Poon Riders! I will arrange a tour bus of Arabs and African Americans on a tour to Germany. We will all dress is suits with bow ties. If they refuse us will then file a lawsuit in Germany and start a March. Hopefully I can skim enough cash of the tour fees to set myself up with multiple free sessions.
How would someone outside of gov would know the girl works as a working girl? Something tells me this aspect of the new law would get thrown out of court or unenforced by state governments.Doesn't Germany have some sort of law allowing public freedom of records access? Also maybe the press could try to get the information as part of a news story or something?
Why would they need a lawyer?Pistons,
To your question why they needed a lawyer.
Only just to be prepared. I think that should not be a disadvantage.
It's one thing telling lies to family, friends, club managers, customers and that's what I like the most, telling lies to boyfriend or husband. But telling the authorities the right lies is quite another matter.
Imagine the 20 year old young woman somewhere from Eastern Europe. Speaks very little German or English and should then attend the counseling interview without help and instructions. (Despite the interpreter who is called in).
What should she tell during the consultation? "My boyfriend told me I need to register so I can work, because he needs gas for his rusty stolen BMW and he's addicted to MDMA, but my boyfriend only loves me as long as I pay him and the other sluts in the club pay him also for being loved, I have to work."
That would be difficult.
I like to point out of the law:
Paragraph 9 measures for advice.
Here it says:
(2) The competent authority shall, without delay, take the necessary measures to protect the person, if there is an actual indication that:
1.
A person is under 21 years of age and is or will be brought by a third party to take or continue the prostitution or.
2.
A person is or will be induced by a third party to exploit a predicament, their helplessness linked to their stay in a foreign country or their personal or economic dependence on prostitution, or that person is or is to be exploited by third parties.
(Google Translation).
The whole construction of the young woman should be able to withstand unpleasant demands.
For a 45-year-old German who has been in business for 22 years, things may look different. She may be able to handle the whole thing without help.
Clubs are advised by lawyers, why not the girls. Maybe the girls are also advised by the lawyers of the clubs, but probably not for free.
The good thing is that not only experts work in German authorities. No, sometimes even real amateurs. But I speculate and actually know absolutely nothing.
But I love that these mongers on ISG see me trolling.
Doesn't Germany have some sort of law allowing public freedom of records access? Also maybe the press could try to get the information as part of a news story or something?Does any country have such a law? Sounds quite strange if one had. And it would have absolutely nothing to do with freedom of the press.
Member #4581
11-12-17, 16:44
That's exactly the point. It has been discussed before. Some clubs are enforcing CBJ. So there are consequences for us mongers.From a manager pov, there are several negative consequences to balance: loss of business is a massive negative consequence. He is paid to run the club and maximize the profits. Losing girls is another. Unwanted attention and fines from law enforcement is another.
If manager realizes that enforcement is not severe and if other clubs are cheating and hence the said club is losing customer traffic, even a strict manager can't hold out for too long. If the club loses guest traffic, over time they will also lose girls who will go where the male guests are.
ExpatLover
11-12-17, 17:02
From a manager pov, there are several negative consequences to balance: loss of business is a massive negative consequence. He is paid to run the club and maximize the profits. Losing girls is another. Unwanted attention and fines from law enforcement is another.
If manager realizes that enforcement is not severe and if other clubs are cheating and hence the said club is losing customer traffic, even a strict manager can't hold out for too long. If the club loses guest traffic, over time they will also lose girls who will go where the male guests are.Correct and that is why Shark is lazy with the implementation of the new law, on opposite World seems to be more proactive.
From a manager pov, there are several negative consequences to balance: loss of business is a massive negative consequence. He is paid to run the club and maximize the profits. Losing girls is another. Unwanted attention and fines from law enforcement is another.
If manager realizes that enforcement is not severe and if other clubs are cheating and hence the said club is losing customer traffic, even a strict manager can't hold out for too long. If the club loses guest traffic, over time they will also lose girls who will go where the male guests are.Isn't this what is partly happening at World? At Oase and Sharks, I keep meeting girls who "used to work at World. " And, if not for its location within Frankfurt city limits, MH would be more under pressure.
ExpatLover
11-12-17, 19:19
Isn't this what is partly happening at World? At Oase and Sharks, I keep meeting girls who "used to work at World. " And, if not for its location within Frankfurt city limits, MH would be more under pressure.Could be one explanation but not the only one, we see less and less german mongers and most of them are getting older so less rooms, World is too far from the airport or even Frankfurt city center to be able to attract a significant number of young tourists with limited budget because it is too expensive to go there if you don't drive your own car, Shark and Oase business are also suffering a bit in the recent months. Is there enough market for so many big clubs in Frankfurt area.
Member #4581
11-12-17, 20:37
Isn't this what is partly happening at World? At Oase and Sharks, I keep meeting girls who "used to work at World. " And, if not for its location within Frankfurt city limits, MH would be more under pressure.Yes, agree. Some members here are saying "I agree that cops won't break into the rooms and catch guys and girls in the act, this BBBJ violation is essentially unprovable in the court, *but* at the same time some xyz club manager will enforce it himself and kick out girls (and guys) who are rumored to be partaking this sex act".
But why would he? Some managers may be initially more risk averse than others, but in time if the law enforcement is not coming down on these clubs, they will stop being hard asses because by then they are losing business to other clubs. The club owner / investors are sure to be asking these managers "why is the club across the town making money and why am I not?
ExpatLover
11-12-17, 21:46
Yes, agree. Some members here are saying "I agree that cops won't break into the rooms and catch guys and girls in the act, this BBBJ violation is essentially unprovable in the court, *but* at the same time some xyz club manager will enforce it himself and kick out girls (and guys) who are rumored to be partaking this sex act".
But why would he? Some managers may be initially more risk averse than others, but in time if the law enforcement is not coming down on these clubs, they will stop being hard asses because by then they are losing business to other clubs. The club owner / investors are sure to be asking these managers "why is the club across the town making money and why am I not?The new law is taking place with more and more power, many mongers at oase, World, or Manhattan are only getting CBJ.
Yes, agree. Some members here are saying "I agree that cops won't break into the rooms and catch guys and girls in the act, this BBBJ violation is essentially unprovable in the court, *but* at the same time some xyz club manager will enforce it himself and kick out girls (and guys) who are rumored to be partaking this sex act".
But why would he? Some managers may be initially more risk averse than others, but in time if the law enforcement is not coming down on these clubs, they will stop being hard asses because by then they are losing business to other clubs. The club owner / investors are sure to be asking these managers "why is the club across the town making money and why am I not?After just spending a week in NRW. I can confirm with 100% certainty that this so-called "BBBJ ban", that everyone hon this forum seems so obsessed about, has had near zero impact on the services I received. I have visited 6 different FKK clubs and sessioned with a dozen or so girls. Not a single one insisted on CBF, I repeat. Not one. The worst thing that happened. One girl asked if I "preferred covered or uncovered BJ". (hmm, good question! And another asked me not to CIM (I wasn't about to anyway). But other than that. No difference from my previous visit 1. 5 years ago. Now, it could be due to me being relatively young and not gross looking, but I doubt I was all that special.
I did notice a couple of clubs posted banners proclaiming that "condoms are required", or something to that affect. (I don't read German). But that's just paying lip service to the new regulations, with no discernible affect on what goes on in the room. In other words. Exactly what one would expect from a "law" like this.
From a manager pov, there are several negative consequences to balance: loss of business is a massive negative consequence. He is paid to run the club and maximize the profits. Losing girls is another. Unwanted attention and fines from law enforcement is another.
If manager realizes that enforcement is not severe and if other clubs are cheating and hence the said club is losing customer traffic, even a strict manager can't hold out for too long. If the club loses guest traffic, over time they will also lose girls who will go where the male guests are.This has happened at one of the more remote clubs at NRW. The first month only CBJ. Then second month, WGs were asking 10 EUR extra. Now back to pre-July 1st pricing. I've only tried two WGs at this club. But yes the changes were precipitated by drop in traffic. As far as I know, it wasn't much reported. I was following the developments via word-of-mouth.
Yes, agree. Some members here are saying "I agree that cops won't break into the rooms and catch guys and girls in the act, this BBBJ violation is essentially unprovable in the court, *but* at the same time some xyz club manager will enforce it himself and kick out girls (and guys) who are rumored to be partaking this sex act".
Yes, unprovable in court, assuming the BBBJ happens behind closed doors. As Neurosynth says, "he said she said" is not sufficient in courts of law, thus no negative consequences should ever fall upon male customers in the form of fines and arrests.
However, hearsay rumors, depending on their severity, could result in increased monitoring and raids by law enforcement (negative consequence for club). Hearsay rumors could also result in WGs being banned from clubs (negative consequence for WG). In both of these cases, proof is not necessary. Suspicion and "he said she said" is sufficient.
But why would he? Some managers may be initially more risk averse than others, but in time if the law enforcement is not coming down on these clubs, they will stop being hard asses because by then they are losing business to other clubs. The club owner / investors are sure to be asking these managers "why is the club across the town making money and why am I not?That is the hope, that the market corrects what has been a negative consequence for us mongers. But some clubs seem to be more openly associated with criminal organizations, so some would say that the club has other goals besides simply money derived via customer traffic. Last year at one NL club, Dutch SWAT teams knocked down doors, guns drawn like they were looking for Bin Laden. Every customer, staff, and WG had their possessions searched. Every customer was interviewed and expected to remember what dominations of notes they handed over to reception and to the WGs. This operation probably cost taxpayers millions of EUR.
Our stance as mongers is that certain club managers are overreacting and too risk-averse. But perhaps they just want to give the authorities zero reason to peek behind the curtains.
Pistons,
To your question why they needed a lawyer.
Only just to be prepared. I think that should not be a disadvantage.
It's one thing telling lies to family, friends, club managers, customers and that's what I like the most, telling lies to boyfriend or husband. But telling the authorities the right lies is quite another matter.
Imagine the 20 year old young woman somewhere from Eastern Europe. Speaks very little German or English and should then attend the counseling interview without help and instructions. (Despite the interpreter who is called in).
What should she tell during the consultation? ".Using your logic, I would need an attorney to get a drivers license. Romanians are allowed to work in Germany and prostitution is not illegal. Generally, you need an attorney of you are breaking a law- not following it. The law is to protect the girls. Sure, a girl may "lie" that she is working on her own volition when she is actually controlled, but no authority would punish her for the lie.
ExpatLover
11-13-17, 05:28
Yes, unprovable in court, assuming the BBBJ happens behind closed doors. As Neurosynth says, "he said she said" is not sufficient in courts of law, thus no negative consequences should ever fall upon male customers in the form of fines and arrests.
However, hearsay rumors, depending on their severity, could result in increased monitoring and raids by law enforcement (negative consequence for club). Hearsay rumors could also result in WGs being banned from clubs (negative consequence for WG). In both of these cases, proof is not necessary. Suspicion and "he said she said" is sufficient.
That is the hope, that the market corrects what has been a negative consequence for us mongers. But some clubs seem to be more openly associated with criminal organizations, so some would say that the club has other goals besides simply money derived via customer traffic. Last year at one NL club, Dutch SWAT teams knocked down doors, guns drawn like they were looking for Bin Laden. Every customer, staff, and WG had their possessions searched. Every customer was interviewed and expected to remember what dominations of notes they handed over to reception and to the WGs. This operation probably cost taxpayers millions of EUR.
Our stance as mongers is that certain club managers are overreacting and too risk-averse. But perhaps they just want to give the authorities zero reason to peek behind the curtains.I don't believe there will be ever a trial for a monger from a big FKK, the risk is 0, again the main target of the new law is to reduce the offer and therefore the demand, World and menhaden and Finca and many brothel in the RLD of Frankfurt belong to the HA Frankfurt chapter, Artemis to the HA chapter Berlin. Oase seems to have some link with the Italian.
McAdonis. Agree.
Of course, any comment about the future is speculation, but we can adduce evidence from the past.
Certain clubs have been raided intensively over relatively short periods by authorities using every possible allegation to fish for evidence. Computers are removed, work rotas taken, all financial records taken, staff members arrested.No court cases emerged, since the whole point was to intimidate the club owners
The result of this attention by the authorities was that the clubs concerned went to enormous efforts to comply with every regulation and law and to appear respectable.
Anecdotal information about infringements of the the July 1 law just gives the authorities another excuse to beat the clubs when they wish to do so.And gives the clubs another law they need to be SEEN not to be breaking ( hence the posters Ortos refers to)
My speculation is that actions by clubs, mongers, forums, to poke political feminist fanatics in the eye by high profiling of illegal activity are likely to lead to more, rather than less,attention by authorities, even though the BBBJ parts of the law are practicably unenforceable.It is a matter of intimidation rather than enforcement. I suspect that reports like those of Ortos could have no conceivable impact as management cannot act on vague statements: repeated reports about particular girls could require managements who feel vulnerable to be seen to take some remedial action.
Personally I think raids related to bbbj allegations are unlikely as long as the clubs can be seen to be trying to comply. Registration raids however will be the norm (as immigration/tax raids now are)
ExpatLover
11-13-17, 06:33
McAdonis. Agree.
Of course, any comment about the future is speculation, but we can adduce evidence from the past.
Certain clubs have been raided intensively over relatively short periods by authorities using every possible allegation to fish for evidence. Computers are removed, work rotas taken, all financial records taken, staff members arrested.No court cases emerged, since the whole point was to intimidate the club owners
The result of this attention by the authorities was that the clubs concerned went to enormous efforts to comply with every regulation and law and to appear respectable.
Anecdotal information about infringements of the the July 1 law just gives the authorities another excuse to beat the clubs when they wish to do so.And gives the clubs another law they need to be SEEN not to be breaking ( hence the posters Ortos refers to)
My speculation is that actions by clubs, mongers, forums, to poke political feminist fanatics in the eye by high profiling of illegal activity is likely to lead to more, rather than less,attention by authorities, even though the BBBJ parts of the law are practicably unenforceable.It is a matter of intimidation rather than enforcement. I suspect that reports like those of Ortos could have no conceivable impact as management cannot act on vague statements: repeated reports about particular girls could require managements who feel vulnerable to be seen to take some remedial action.
Personally I think raids related to bbbj allegations are unlikely as long as the clubs can be seen to be trying to comply. Registration raids however will be the norm (as immigration/tax raids now are)I think that you speaking about a club situated in the north of Frankfurt around 60 kilometers, those actions have strongly impacted the business in the recent years, in 2010 or 11 this club was always full, with around 100 girls today probably less than 50.
Use of Attorneys, or Agents.
Of course it may not be necessary, but there are loads of occasions where the use of professional agents is common to do things where they are not necessary. For example, obtaining visas, claiming compensation for missold financial products, applying for passports, and so on.
This is not a right and wrong question. Agents may or may not be used.
So we still do not know if the quote of 200 euro was correct or not. Romanian girls seem to inflate costs but I don't know.It could be a correct estimate if agents were used but I couldn't establish whether or not agents were used
ExpatLover
11-13-17, 15:35
Use of Attorneys, or Agents.
Of course it may not be necessary, but there are loads of occasions where the use of professional agents is common to do things where they are not necessary. For example, obtaining visas, claiming compensation for missold financial products, applying for passports, and so on.
This is not a right and wrong question. Agents may or may not be used.
So we still do not know if the quote of 200 euro was correct or not. Romanian girls seem to inflate costs but I don't know.200 euros seems not be the correct amount, some girls told me that the global cost is around 800 euros.
Use of Attorneys, or Agents.
Of course it may not be necessary, but there are loads of occasions where the use of professional agents is common to do things where they are not necessary. For example, obtaining visas, claiming compensation for missold financial products, applying for passports, and so on.
This is not a right and wrong question. Agents may or may not be used.
So we still do not know if the quote of 200 euro was correct or not. Romanian girls seem to inflate costs but I don't know.It could be a correct estimate if agents were used but I couldn't establish whether or not agents were usedKnowing this target demographic group I think we can easily assume lawyers will not be used in the registration. Heck, if it was me as well, even the thought of wasting money on a lawyer would make me feel like an idiot.
McAdonis. Agree.
Of course, any comment about the future is speculation, but we can adduce evidence from the past.
Certain clubs have been raided intensively over relatively short periods by authorities using every possible allegation to fish for evidence. Computers are removed, work rotas taken, all financial records taken, staff members arrested.No court cases emerged, since the whole point was to intimidate the club owners
The result of this attention by the authorities was that the clubs concerned went to enormous efforts to comply with every regulation and law and to appear respectable.Well, the Artemis case was more a one off than a matter of clubs. And it was related to something far worse than pimping or money laundering. There was the excuse of linking it to a murder. So the confiscation of material case was a single incident. I am not sure what happened in this dutch club however. The Paradise incident was also a one off thing and a link to a biker gang. What seems to be the red line on there raids is suspected links to biker gangs who have alternative criminal hobbies at hand.
Basically the suspected idea is that girls come over either as pimped by some gangs or guys, or by their boyfriend. And since the guys have absolutely no working permit at all in EU, and no income of their own, some of these guys dabble in crime. Its basically an immigration issue since we know from all over the world that immigrants without working permit start with various types of criminal activities. Its too bad that some girls start out this work after being recruited by gangs who educate them. But it is a natural economic thing to do if you live in a poor country. Both from the perspective of the guys who may lack working permits in richer countries, and from the perspective of the girls who either has no starting finances, knows nothing about the industry and lacks contacts.
In the Philippines for example this same thing happens with pimped girls on contracts. But there it is the managers at the gogo's who work as agents on their own for the gogo's and have 10-20 girls in the stables. So basically the managers are the pimps who goes to the provinces to recruit these girls. In a way that may make it better for the girls, and perhaps more a legalizing or changing of the pimp laws would help the German scene in this also. It is hard to say. In China the girls are normally bought by the triade and have to pay themselves out of the contract. And they get a cut of the money while on contract. When they sign the contract their parents get a certain amount of money. Some manage to buy themselves out after just 6 months, and stay put for years afterwards as that is when they earn the real money. So one way of verifying that you are not with a pimped girl is just to find out how popular she is, and how long she has been in the business. The more popular and the longer she has been there, the less likely it is that she is pimped and works on her own.
In Thailand, and I suspect with local German girls in Germany, most work on their own and with no pimps at all. Most pimped girls in Thailand are from Laos. So they come from a different country. However, the more we get internet and the more the world globalizes, the less will be the need to recruit girls for this type of jobs, and the higher will be the chances of girls finding out about this on their own and doing everything by themselves. Now in Thailand, only thai girls can legally sell sex. So for the lao girls it is illegal to work in Thailand. And thus you practically invite the triade. It is pretty black and white with this in Thailand and very obvious. In Germany, all EU and efta citizens are allowed to work, so by the Thailand case at hand there wouldn't be the need for gang or pimps to operate. So taking the easily tracked Thailand case and Asian situations as norms, the german market for the eastern Europeans are probably very fragmented. But the more you make it illegal, and the more they make it into shades of grey, the more they invite gangs and pimps with bad alternative motives. And that is when you get these police raids, confiscations and all the drama.
(One grey situation in the German industry is with Moldavians. They can get Romanian passports in Chisinau if they have Romanian relatives. Another one may be related to gypsies for all I know. Correct me if I am wrong. And the gypsies where some may not know how to read or write, it will be hard for them to traverse. And many of these traveller groups have a totally different culture and way of life where crime throughout the centuries. Most forms have been seen as a standard way of life, and they have as mentioned earlier never really settled in and some or most doesn't even consider themselves as Europeans. So they feel like immigrants without working permits).
Member #4581
11-14-17, 03:39
Hearsay and rumors can be started by anyone. We are living in the age of fake news, as the orange baboon says. One obvious problem: note down a bunch of girls' names in each club thread, assume a bunch of fake identities, and post a bunch of fake reports that all those girls in all those clubs provided BBBJ, BBFS, the works. Is german police org going to employ a bunch of experts to read through ISG and other comment boards and figure out which of those reports is authentic and which is fake?
Exactly which rumors will they pursue?
However, hearsay rumors, depending on their severity, could result in increased monitoring and raids by law enforcement (negative consequence for club). Hearsay rumors could also result in WGs being banned from clubs (negative consequence for WG). In both of these cases, proof is not necessary. Suspicion and "he said she said" is sufficient.
That is the hope, that the market corrects what has been a negative consequence for us mongers. But some clubs seem to be more openly associated with criminal organizations, so some would say that the club has other goals besides simply money derived via customer traffic. Last year at one NL club, Dutch SWAT teams knocked down doors, guns drawn like they were looking for Bin Laden. Every customer, staff, and WG had their possessions searched. Every customer was interviewed and expected to remember what dominations of notes they handed over to reception and to the WGs. This operation probably cost taxpayers millions of EUR.
Our stance as mongers is that certain club managers are overreacting and too risk-averse. But perhaps they just want to give the authorities zero reason to peek behind the curtains.
I have *no clue* which club is involved with what crime group or not. But if a club is indeed run by a bunch of criminal hooligans, it would seem funny that they are not concerned about getting caught in their real crimes (which is probably not happening inside the club walls), but would be so concerned about BBBJ going on in their clubs. And why should the manager be so concerned? Unless the police can prove that the manager is actively pushing his girls to indulge in illegal acts, there is no danger to his club being shut down because some men received BBBJ. Why should he fear this "unwanted attention" any more than clubs not run by criminals? Do the police barge into the clubs with the excuse of checking out BBBJ but then investigate the *real crimes* of these managing bosses? That doesn't make sense.
In general, police raiding a club is a hassle for anyone. But it is a either random occurrence or related to other things like many girls not having proper papers etc, per experienced mongers here. There is no proof that it is in any way elevated in clubs where BBBJ is a bit more relaxed.
Pistons. You are right. The red line is exactly as you say.I was not talking about Artemis, but it does make my case that the authorities will use every shred of allegation to try to bring down a group or club they don't want. This has also been done for clubs which so far as I know cross no red lines
Jnpr30. As you say the real concern of some owners was about getting prosecuted for their non-club activities but such groups might well need their respectable club operation for all sorts of reasons. That is exactly why they want to keep the authorities off their backs as club owners: harassment by authorities at their clubs could lead to evidence being found and weaken them. Repeated raids in the main case I am familiar with led to a weakening of the owners strength in other areas. Of course if the authorities can prosecute them for their non club activities they will go for that in preference
No way will the authorities be microanalysing posts here, but if a club they are after gets a high profile generally (and I don't mean just on ISG) then the authorities just have another tiny weapon in their armoury
Knowing this target demographic group I think we can easily assume lawyers will not be used in the registration. Heck, if it was me as well, even the thought of wasting money on a lawyer would make me feel like an idiot.On the very very limited evidence I have, the girls concerned were sanguine about spending the necessary money and time for registration. I am sure they were not using a lawyer, and doubt they were using agents of any sort. Others (for example BadinSweet) report a very different and worried attitude to registration
We have a discussion in which there is probably no right or wrong. Some members (including me) are saying that something COULD happen and that this possibility should be taken into account. Others are refuting this by saying there is no proof that it has actually happened.
Speculation about the future, (even should it be based on evidence of past attitudes, similarities and so on) and that something MIGHT happen cannot be disproved or proved (probably not even when the future becomes the past), so asking for proof does not disprove the speculation.
The issue really is about complex attitudes by the authorities and none of us can forecast these, given the complexity of the variables. I made an attempt to explain my assessment: those who disagree may well be right and I may be wrong but there can currently be no proof either way.
I am hoping this brings some common ground.
Well, the Artemis case was more a one off than a matter of clubs. And it was related to something far worse than pimping or money laundering. There was the excuse of linking it to a murder. So the confiscation of material case was a single incident. I am not sure what happened in this dutch club however. The Paradise incident was also a one off thing and a link to a biker gang. What seems to be the red line on there raids is suspected links to biker gangs who have alternative criminal hobbies at hand.
Basically the suspected idea is that girls come over either as pimped by some gangs or guys, or by their boyfriend. And since the guys have absolutely no working permit at all in EU, and no income of their own, some of these guys dabble in crime. Its basically an immigration issue since we know from all over the world that immigrants without working permit start with various types of criminal activities. Its too bad that some girls start out this work after being recruited by gangs who educate them. But it is a natural economic thing to do if you live in a poor country. Both from the perspective of the guys who may lack working permits in richer countries, and from the perspective of the girls who either has no starting finances, knows nothing about the industry and lacks contacts..Very well done. I agree completely. It is a very enlighten approach for these types of problems. The cost of driving out a business that has an inherent demand is always high. Better to control and regulate the supply. That is one this the FKK have done--provided a place where it is easy for you to find sex and the provider is willingly there. Look no further than the stable pricing for all these years and the huge growth in the number and size. Yes, taxes are not always paid, but you are effectively giving a subsidy to the ones in need. People fail to look at these situations as dynamic where you cannot force a solution that does not comport with the demand.
ExpatLover
11-14-17, 08:25
Hearsay and rumors can be started by anyone. We are living in the age of fake news, as the orange baboon says. One obvious problem: note down a bunch of girls' names in each club thread, assume a bunch of fake identities, and post a bunch of fake reports that all those girls in all those clubs provided BBBJ, BBFS, the works. Is german police org going to employ a bunch of experts to read through ISG and other comment boards and figure out which of those reports is authentic and which is fake?
Exactly which rumors will they pursue?.You just have to read my posts to know it, mostly HA from different chapters.
ExpatLover
11-14-17, 08:30
On the very very limited evidence I have, the girls concerned were sanguine about spending the necessary money and time for registration. I am sure they were not using a lawyer, and doubt they were using agents of any sort. Others (for example BadinSweet) report a very different and worried attitude to registrationSorry but you are wrong, most of the girls can t speak or write German, for them it is better to work in the club and to pay for the lawyer. I got the infos from reliable girls, also they need to pay directly the income tax how can they do it, like many companies in Germany they will use a tax adviser or a lawyer. We shouldn't always try to make the things complicate, obviously Mandy from Shark will not need any third party to do all this, she is German and well educated so no issue at all for her but for so many girls it is a issue.
Basically the suspected idea is that girls come over either as pimped by some gangs or guys, or by their boyfriend. And since the guys have absolutely no working permit at all in EU, and no income of their own, some of these guys dabble in crime. Its basically an immigration issue since we know from all over the world that immigrants without working permit start with various types of criminal activities.No, for example that is not the case for Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary. These 3 countries are member states of the European Union. EU citizens are entitled to work in another EU country and to work there without a work permit being required. Free movement-EU citizens.
https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp%3FcatId%3D457%26langId%3Dde&ved=0ahUKEwilxuPKk77XAhWMbVAKHSALCP0QFggcMAA&usg=AOvVaw2r_fD5FBg1Ltnj9kk-FsGf
Guys of the mentioned 3 countries are allowed to work legally in Germany and pay their taxes. So there is no compulsory reason to become a criminal.
Akibono. Yes. A point not made often enough by politicians.
ExpatLover
11-14-17, 15:23
Well, the Artemis case was more a one off than a matter of clubs. And it was related to something far worse than pimping or money laundering. There was the excuse of linking it to a murder. So the confiscation of material case was a single incident. I am not sure what happened in this dutch club however. The Paradise incident was also a one off thing and a link to a biker gang. What seems to be the red line on there raids is suspected links to biker gangs who have alternative criminal hobbies at hand.
Basically the suspected idea is that girls come over either as pimped by some gangs or guys, or by their boyfriend. And since the guys have absolutely no working permit at all in EU, and no income of their own, some of these guys dabble in crime. Its basically an immigration issue since we know from all over the world that immigrants without working permit start with various types of criminal activities. Its too bad that some girls start out this work after being recruited by gangs who educate them. But it is a natural economic thing to do if you live in a poor country. Both from the perspective of the guys who may lack working permits in richer countries, and from the perspective of the girls who either has no starting finances, knows nothing about the industry and lacks contacts..I am living since 20 years in China and I don't think that your understanding is correct, most of the Chinese girls are free, they have no pimp especially the young one, in the German FKK 90% of the girls are from Romania which is schengen area so no need of permit etc. In Europe the prostitution is not controlled by the migrants but a big amount of the girls are independent or linked with HA, this is at least what I think after so many years of mongering.
Rogue Nation
11-14-17, 16:45
That is one this the FKK have done--provided a place where it is easy for you to find sex and the provider is willingly there. Define willingly.
One point repeatedly made by Dona Carmen (the militants who lodged a complaint against the New Law before the German Supreme Court) is that prostitution businesses are held to much stricter standards than normal businesses. In other words there's a law-enforcement bias against prostitution places. This is not surprising.
Since many men even on this forum can't wean themselves from the pimp paradigm, let me propose an exam assignment taken from the Social Justice course SJW 1001. You are given a statement of fact about a working girl and your job is to twist it into definitive proof that trafficking is taking place. For example if you are told that a girl gets chauffered to the club, your reply is that the girl gets driven by the pimp to the club. So here we go:
Girl gets chauffered to the club ------------------------> Girl driven by pimp, dumped like garbage in front of the club
Girl drives her own car ----------------------------> Girl only allowed to drive pimp's car to go sell her body
Girl arrives in a taxi -------------------->Lazy pimp, stays late in bed while girl left to cope with unreliable public transport
Girl allowed to spend the night in club for a small fee ---------> Girls sleep ten to a room, kept like chattel
Girl has her own place in town -------> Girl left to fend for herself, preyed upon by greedy landlords and pimps
Girl getting older, struggling to get customers -----------------> Girl forced by pimp to work until she dies
Girl very popular, barely touches ground between rooms ----> Girl forced to maximize profit for pimp's sake
Girl refuses to do BBBJs -------------------------------------------> Girl prohibited by pimp to do so, BBBJs reserved for pimp
Girl happy to provide BBBJs ---------------------------------------> Girl forced by pimp to do BBBJs to maximize profit
Girl with a bruise ----------------------------------------------------> Beaten by pimp
Girl with not a single bruise --------------> Clever pimp, masters the art of inflicting pain without leaving traces
Girl seen talking to FKK staff ---------------------> FKK staff = pimps
Girl never seen to talk to FKK staff -------------> FKK staff = undercover pimps
Last but not least:
Girl says she has never had a pimp in her life ----------------> Of course she'll say that !
Probably most of them have what they consider boyfriends instead of pimps. But many of these girls share their income with their boyfriends. Some even have their boyfriends at home back in their own country too and just communicate on their phones. Its like a job for them supporting an otherwise poor family. The other form of pimping is probably much more restrictive. It is probably there, but to a lesser extent.
Girl says she has never had a pimp in her life ----------------> Of course she'll say that !LOL! I like to add:
Girl gives fantastic service and free couch time to everybody.
Because she is desperately looking for a pimp.
Neurosynth
11-14-17, 21:30
Talking about what *could* happen made some sense before the law went into effect. But the law has now been in effect long enough that we no longer have to speculate about what *could* happen. We have better evidence from which to extrapolate. We have what *has* happened. And what *has* happened has been very little. Public BBBJ / BBFS has been muted and not eliminated. Behind-closed-doors BBBJ / BBFS has diminished very little.
It is not unreasonable to predict that what *will* happen when registration is rolled in with the new year, is what *has* happened when apparently huge fines were threatened.
Very little will change.
Is german police org going to employ a bunch of experts to read through ISG and other comment boards and figure out which of those reports is authentic and which is fake?
No. The authorities would likely harass them regardless of what is written on the board. I think we are all in agreement that the club managers that come up with these rules are acting irrationally. As you say, they are eschewing profits by literally driving customer traffic to their competitors. And as many have pointed out, only the mongers can be prosecuted, not the clubs, not the WGs. So why do these club managers exercise so much caution? Optimist and XXL offer some reasons. If the police are out to get you, the most tenuous thread of suspicion can result in negative outcomes. Ask an old African-American man from Georgia, who has never broken a law in his life, why he always insists on driving 5 mph under the speed limit.
I have *no clue* which club is involved with what crime group or not. But if a club is indeed run by a bunch of criminal hooligans, it would seem funny that they are not concerned about getting caught in their real crimes (which is probably not happening inside the club walls), but would be so concerned about BBBJ going on in their clubs. And why should the manager be so concerned? Money laundering is a crime that hooligans often engage in. If this happens inside club wall, my guess is the hooligans would not want there to be a constant police presence. If the criminals cannot use their money, they lack the capacity to carry out their real crimes. No ability to reinvest into their other operations. No ability to recruit new people. No ability to offer bribes. For LE it is strategic and almost as good as catching and prosecuting the criminals.
Talking about what *could* happen made some sense before the law went into effect. But the law has now been in effect long enough that we no longer have to speculate about what *could* happen. We have better evidence from which to extrapolate. We have what *has* happened. And what *has* happened has been very little. Public BBBJ / BBFS has been muted and not eliminated. Behind-closed-doors BBBJ / BBFS has diminished very little.
It is not unreasonable to predict that what *will* happen when registration is rolled in with the new year, is what *has* happened when apparently huge fines were threatened.
Very little will change.Who realistically thought BBBJ or BBFS would be eliminated? Drugs is illegal, yet you can still find it. You just have to pay more.
Probably between 80-90% of providers were in the business prior to July 1st. What happens with the next generation? We know it will be still be available but will it be the same price? DFK and DATY for minimum 100 EUR has seemed to be prevalent in the last year or so. That change in the market prices was probably took two years.
Most people I've spoken to were more worried about registration (even back in June).
Member #4581
11-15-17, 03:38
Who realistically thought BBBJ or BBFS would be eliminated? Drugs is illegal, yet you can still find it. You just have to pay more.
Probably between 80-90% of providers were in the business prior to July 1st. What happens with the next generation? We know it will be still be available but will it be the same price? DFK and DATY for minimum 100 EUR has seemed to be prevalent in the last year or so. That change in the market prices was probably took two years.
Most people I've spoken to were more worried about registration (even back in June).Respectfully, several members here did post menacing warnings that continued references to BBBJ provided in clubs would lead to such practice becoming practically extinct in a very causal manner.
As for services degradation: this is not a step change. If we look back commments here for the past many years, there were complaints about DFK and DATY not freely provided in 50 E sessions, or some girls demanding extra money. Such complaints are continually increasing. If inflation is non-zero and price is kept constant, quality of the product or service is logically going to decline, and has.
Define willingly.Someone who is free to leave the business when she chooses.
Are clubs deserted during the first week of January, can I still have a good time? Mistakenly booked flights without checking this board first. Then I found out about Orthodox Christmas on Jan 7! Seriously debating canceling.
XXL. Well explained. People with fixed opinions see everything as evidence for their views.
People with fixed opinions see everything as evidence for their views.Oh, these people again. The same lame old pseudo-scientific psychoanalysis on ISG. As doubtful as useless.
Respectfully, several members here did post menacing warnings that continued references to BBBJ provided in clubs would lead to such practice becoming practically extinct in a very causal manner.
As for services degradation: this is not a step change. If we look back commments here for the past many years, there were complaints about DFK and DATY not freely provided in 50 E sessions, or some girls demanding extra money. Such complaints are continually increasing. If inflation is non-zero and price is kept constant, quality of the product or service is logically going to decline, and has.Respectfully, my personal view of the situation is that reporting has limited the BBBJ available quite a lot already. The more reports, the harder it will be to get it. But there is always a lag in the system.
ExpatLover
11-16-17, 08:03
Respectfully, my personal view of the situation is that reporting has limited the BBBJ available quite a lot already. The more reports, the harder it will be to get it. But there is always a lag in the system.No change to get it, but you need to be a clean, a little bit attractive obviously if you are not or if you are well know in the club to be a bad guy with the girls they will immediately put the condom on your small friend, it is a kind of revenge the girls are using.
Will spend Fri and Sat in NRW. Really don't expect any sausage fest any more. So which club can be a good choice?
GT and LR have good LU but really awful ratio during the peak time.
Aca ratio is good but LU is not that good.
I'm thinking about two Koln clubs, Babylon and Samya or DV AG Ocean or even YY?
Any suggestions?
If we look back commments here for the past many years, there were complaints about DFK and DATY not freely provided in 50 E sessions, or some girls demanding extra money. Such complaints are continually increasing. If inflation is non-zero and price is kept constant, quality of the product or service is logically going to decline, and has.At Oase and Palace, there were always complaints. Sharks much less so, until recently. I think the complaints are continually increasing because it is gotten noticeably worse in the last two years. Mandy, who gives good service for 50 EUR, is spoken about like she is a unicorn.
Sharks has risen in popularity the last two years, which has allowed the WGs to be more selective. Some WGs would rather sit bored for 3-4 hours, refusing low-value, too-demanding customers, because they are confident that a whale will soon arrive.
The general service degradation over last decade, could be explained by inflation, but not sure about the degradation over the last two years. Inflation in Germany was near zero for 2015 and 2016. And low (or negative) throughout all of the Eurozone.
Are clubs deserted during the first week of January, can I still have a good time? Mistakenly booked flights without checking this board first. Then I found out about Orthodox Christmas on Jan 7! Seriously debating canceling.Zotzman,
If you like adventure, do not hesitate and just go. Holiday time and especially the 1. Of January 2018 are variables that could probably provide for less choice. But Berlin is always worth a trip. (I'm not paid to write this, I'm just a customer).
If you want to play it safe then postpone your trip by a few weeks. But even in a desert you will find water and besides you could be "the first man on the moon".
Members with great experience will give you useful hints. I am convinced of that and would like to ask for it.
PumDiPimp.
Neurosynth
11-17-17, 03:00
Respectfully, my personal view of the situation is that reporting has limited the BBBJ available quite a lot already. The more reports, the harder it will be to get it. But there is always a lag in the system.Where has BBBJ been significantly diminished relative to what was offered before the law?
Zotzman,
If you like adventure, do not hesitate and just go. Holiday time and especially the 1. Of January 2018 are variables that could probably provide for less choice. But Berlin is always worth a trip. (I'm not paid to write this, I'm just a customer).
If you want to play it safe then postpone your trip by a few weeks. But even in a desert you will find water and besides you could be "the first man on the moon".
Members with great experience will give you useful hints. I am convinced of that and would like to ask for it.
PumDiPimp.Thanks for your response PumDiPump. After checking past years of the FKK forums, I garnered a few useful anecdotes about early Jan that I'll like to share:
1. Most girls will return by January 20th-ish. A few of the popular tourist-oriented clubs (EG. Sharks, Oase?) even paid girls a bonus to stay till Jan 4 in previous years presumably due to tourist demand. And presumably girls leave Jan 5 onwards just in time for Orthodox Christmas.
2. More Romanians in FRA than NRW, so NRW might still have a good LU.
With these factors in mind, I'm going to postpone to late January. Taking precious little time off from work is more valuable to me than the cost of the flights (a luxury I'm grateful to have).
BigBuddy69
11-17-17, 08:53
Samya and Acapulco at least in the first days.
Rogue Nation
11-17-17, 09:09
But many of these girls share their income with their boyfriends."Share their income" is a strong understatement in many cases, especially for the younger girls. They work for years and when the BF dumps them because his "share" is not what it used to be, they are left with nothing.
Where has BBBJ been significantly diminished relative to what was offered before the law?I have just spent over ten days visiting Sharks and Oase. I had 20+ sessions with over 15 different girls. Every single time, BBBJ was offered freely, casually even automatically. There was absolutely no issue. Like always, BBBJ was the default mode. Only once did a girl (a very young new arrival from Rom) politely ask: "Do you prefer mit gummi or ohne (without)?" I said, "Do it like Eve to Adam, all natural, baby. " She complied immediately and with a smile. No issue.
These last ten days have convinced me that there has been little to no change at the two larger Hessen clubs. Also I firmly believe that the issue is being over-hyped by some posters here and that discussions about in this forum will have zero effect on what happens in the future one way or the other.
Nevertheless, because I always leave open the possibility that I might be wrong, I will avoid mentioning specific girls by name in reference to this service.
"Share their income" is a strong understatement in many cases, especially for the younger girls. They work for years and when the BF dumps them because his "share" is not what it used to be, they are left with nothing.It is probably really hard to generalise what you are saying. Sure it may happen, but your version is quite low on the details. Many girls who has been long in the business tells me they were the ones who dumped their boyfriends. Of course this could also be lies. Then again, all these girls were girls I would consider to be among the hot ones. Perhaps it is different for the ones making less money.
ExpatLover
11-17-17, 18:44
I have just spent over ten days visiting Sharks and Oase. I had 20+ sessions with over 15 different girls. Every single time, BBBJ was offered freely, casually even automatically. There was absolutely no issue. Like always, BBBJ was the default mode. Only once did a girl (a very young new arrival from Rom) politely ask: "Do you prefer mit gummi or ohne (without)?" I said, "Do it like Eve to Adam, all natural, baby. " She complied immediately and with a smile. No issue.
These last ten days have convinced me that there has been little to no change at the two larger Hessen clubs. Also I firmly believe that the issue is being over-hyped by some posters here and that discussions about in this forum will have zero effect on what happens in the future one way or the other.
Nevertheless, because I always leave open the possibility that I might be wrong, I will avoid mentioning specific girls by name in reference to this service.You are right just need to have a short look on my reports, if you are a clean man a little bit sexy no change but if you are the type of guy the girls don't like there will be a big change.
And presumably girls leave Jan 5 onwards just in time for Orthodox Christmas.The Romanians and Bulgarians celebrate Christmas as per the Gregorian calendar (25th December), unlike most other Orthodox majority countries.
ExpatLover
11-17-17, 18:51
Thanks for your response PumDiPump. After checking past years of the FKK forums, I garnered a few useful anecdotes about early Jan that I'll like to share:
1. Most girls will return by January 20th-ish. A few of the popular tourist-oriented clubs (EG. Sharks, Oase?) even paid girls a bonus to stay till Jan 4 in previous years presumably due to tourist demand. And presumably girls leave Jan 5 onwards just in time for Orthodox Christmas.
2. More Romanians in FRA than NRW, so NRW might still have a good LU.
With these factors in mind, I'm going to postpone to late January. Taking precious little time off from work is more valuable to me than the cost of the flights (a luxury I'm grateful to have).Let us make it simple, many girls will leave around the 20 of December and come back around the 10 to 15 of January but this year will be special due to registration obligation I think that some girls will leave latter and not come back.
Rogue Nation
11-17-17, 19:02
but your version is quite low on the details. Many girls who has been long in the business tells me they were the ones who dumped their boyfriends. Should I mention names? The list would contain quite a few of the ISG superstars at all clubs in Germany, Globe etc. Nothing to discuss on a public board. I said younger girls. So having been long in the business and dumping their BF probably makes them a little older.
How many girls who have a BF setting them a target per day will admit and talk about it to a client, usually a stranger? Not that many I guess.
Member #4581
11-17-17, 23:56
"Share their income" is a strong understatement in many cases, especially for the younger girls. They work for years and when the BF dumps them because his "share" is not what it used to be, they are left with nothing.What does the guy give in return to the girl?
If the guy doesn't need to give anything back, why do they bother dumping the girl? Free money is free money, even if the amount is getting smaller; no?!
Should I mention names? The list would contain quite a few of the ISG superstars at all clubs in Germany, Globe etc. Nothing to discuss on a public board. I said younger girls. So having been long in the business and dumping their BF probably makes them a little older.
How many girls who have a BF setting them a target per day will admit and talk about it to a client, usually a stranger? Not that many I guess.Of course, we may never know anything we hear from the girls themselves. Then again, how come you know? I've seen single girls working in FKK's fishing for boyfriends on facebook even too. There is hardly any set standard rules in this game. But of course many things makes sense. What you say is just one. No need to mention names, but you are right in that all the girls I was thinking of is at least 26.
Rogue Nation
11-18-17, 09:09
If the guy doesn't need to give anything back, why do they bother dumping the girl? It's easy to find a new, better performing girl. And the older the girls get, the more self-confident they get and the less easy they are manipulated.
Same, except I was in NRW area. Zero difference in BBBJ availability between now and past visits. People need to find something else to talk about. This topic has been beaten to death.
I have just spent over ten days visiting Sharks and Oase. I had 20+ sessions with over 15 different girls. Every single time, BBBJ was offered freely, casually even automatically. There was absolutely no issue. Like always, BBBJ was the default mode. Only once did a girl (a very young new arrival from Rom) politely ask: "Do you prefer mit gummi or ohne (without)?" I said, "Do it like Eve to Adam, all natural, baby. " She complied immediately and with a smile. No issue.
These last ten days have convinced me that there has been little to no change at the two larger Hessen clubs. Also I firmly believe that the issue is being over-hyped by some posters here and that discussions about in this forum will have zero effect on what happens in the future one way or the other.
Nevertheless, because I always leave open the possibility that I might be wrong, I will avoid mentioning specific girls by name in reference to this service.
ExpatLover
11-18-17, 18:28
Of course, we may never know anything we hear from the girls themselves. Then again, how come you know? I've seen single girls working in FKK's fishing for boyfriends on facebook even too. There is hardly any set standard rules in this game. But of course many things makes sense. What you say is just one. No need to mention names, but you are right in that all the girls I was thinking of is at least 26.I will try to make a kind of summary after 15 years of FKK visits, probably 80 visits a years mostly in Hessen clubs. I spent also 100 nights with the FKK girls outside the clubs, 30 days of holidays, 3 birthdays party and 2 Christmas eve. 90% of the girls are from Romania, 60% may be more have a husband or a boyfriend, 99% or more have not pleasure to be fucked and for them be a prostitute is more or less like a normal job, 90% of the girls have a big problem with her family background, 99% of the girls are lazy and for them earning money with their body is far easier than to have normal job.
Is there any graduate from university working in a club, no despite what some of us are thinking, behind the doors of a club there is nothing very sexy, I never wish that a girls from my relatives have to work as a prostitute.
Rogue Nation
11-18-17, 19:36
There's girls at Mainhattan, Oase and Palace, occasionally at Sharks and World asking for 50€ extra or a full 60 min session for BBBJ.
Neurosynth
11-19-17, 08:40
I have just spent over ten days visiting Sharks and Oase. I had 20+ sessions with over 15 different girls. Every single time, BBBJ was offered freely, casually even automatically. There was absolutely no issue. Like always, BBBJ was the default mode. Only once did a girl (a very young new arrival from Rom) politely ask: "Do you prefer mit gummi or ohne (without)?" I said, "Do it like Eve to Adam, all natural, baby. " She complied immediately and with a smile. No issue.
These last ten days have convinced me that there has been little to no change at the two larger Hessen clubs. Also I firmly believe that the issue is being over-hyped by some posters here and that discussions about in this forum will have zero effect on what happens in the future one way or the other.
Nevertheless, because I always leave open the possibility that I might be wrong, I will avoid mentioning specific girls by name in reference to this service.Thanks for adding to the growing body of evidence that this new law has been largely ineffective.
But then you actually help make it effective by undermining the quality of the board, giving in to what they count on. Fear.
You say it's out of concern, but if you are so risk averse you probably shouldn't be getting BB services in the first place.
ExpatLover
11-19-17, 14:24
Thanks for adding to the growing body of evidence that this new law has been largely ineffective.
But then you actually help make it effective by undermining the quality of the board, giving in to what they count on. Fear.
You say it's out of concern, but if you are so risk averse you probably shouldn't be getting BB services in the first place.Again and again but I think that nobody is reading my reports, the target of the new law was not to stop BBBJ this was only the cosmetic approach to make it acceptable for the girls, the main target is to reduce the offer and you will to feel the things beginning of January when the registration will be compulsory. Nobody cares if you get a BBBJ or not knowing that the risk to get sick is 0.
Thanks for adding to the growing body of evidence that this new law has been largely ineffective.
But then you actually help make it effective by undermining the quality of the board, giving in to what they count on. Fear.
You say it's out of concern, but if you are so risk averse you probably shouldn't be getting BB services in the first place.Wtf? Do you even think before you post things or do you just automatically end your posts writing complete rubbish that makes you seem to an utter ******* Kluegscheisser? Your response to my attempt to provide useful information is quite arrogant and full of assumptions.
What does the guy give in return to the girl?
RogueNation echoes a common narrative. Loverboy finds a young girl with low-self esteem, brainwashes her, and before long, she is selling her body in return for love from her BF. A second narrative is that her "BF" is actually her boss, who reports up to another boss. If the police harass her, she is instructed to give them the "BF story", maybe even show a few fake FB photos. In both cases, authorities suspect that the alleged BF is not acting alone, and has ties to criminal organizations. The legalization of prostitution was supposed to root out these criminal underbellies, but both Netherlands and Germany have realized that they haven't. These criminal organizations have considerable resources and influence in her corrupt country, so in some ways, your question is like asking: what do citizens get from their government when they pay their taxes?
If the guy doesn't need to give anything back, why do they bother dumping the girl? Free money is free money, even if the amount is getting smaller; no?!If the BF's stable grew too large, his risk profile would be bigger, so he might as RogueNation says, look for a replacement.
Amsterdam mayor on organized crime and links to prostitution:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/world/europe/24amsterdam.html
Kriminalpolizei Augsburg on "pimp gangs":
https://www.scribd.com/document/184666612/Prostitution-in-Deutschland-Von-Helmut-Sporer-Kripo-Augsburg
Wtf? Do you even think before you post things or do you just automatically end your posts writing complete rubbish that makes you seem to an utter ******* Kluegscheisser? Your response to my attempt to provide useful information is quite arrogant and full of assumptions.Carry on with your posts as you think fit and don't take any notice of self-appointed judges
Rogue Nation
11-19-17, 19:37
RogueNation echoes a common narrative. Excuse my bad English. Does narrative in this context imply that it is fiction or tales only?
Lads,
With the view on this forum that Mutti Merkel's Refugee Policy will eventually lead to more exotic beautiful ladies gracing FKK Clubs, I paid special attention to up and coming Afghani-British PornStar _ Yameena Ali. She's actually based in Bratislava.
https://www.youporn.com/watch/13640793/brief-encounters-yasmeena-ali/
https://twitter.com/Yasmeenamodel
And she squirts -.
https://www.faketaxi.com/tour/video/78501/squirting-screaming-taxi-orgasms/
And it seems she does shoots with amateurs.
http://www.istudio.com/40685
KC Questor
11-20-17, 04:46
Excuse my bad English. Does narrative in this context imply that it is fiction or tales only?It implies that there is a "story", which may or may not be completely true, or which may appear different to different observers. Using the term "narrative" suggests that the information may be especially biased, or composed towards a goal.
Hessen Bub
11-20-17, 11:22
Of course, we may never know anything we hear from the girls themselves. Then again, how come you know? I've seen single girls working in FKK's fishing for boyfriends on facebook even too. There is hardly any set standard rules in this game. But of course many things makes sense. What you say is just one. No need to mention names, but you are right in that all the girls I was thinking of is at least 26.Having been in this hobby for many years, having close contact to a lot of working or ex working girls.
It seems as if it's not at all guaranteed that Mutti Merkel will be back as chancellor as The Liberals are siting irreconcilable differences between them and The CDU.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/german-parties-pain-threshold-immigration-coalition-talks-134519568--business.html
Both the Liberals and The Greens would have opposed the new daft sex laws. However, that isn't the issue at the moment.
Having been in this hobby for many years, having close contact to a lot of working or ex working girls.OK, well. Look at my post in the lounge thread.
Neurosynth
11-20-17, 21:21
Headline: "Merkel's fourth term in doubt after would-be partner pulls out".
I guess she's really upset about not getting that cream pie.
It seems as if it's not at all guaranteed that Mutti Merkel will be back as chancellor as The Liberals are siting irreconcilable differences between them and The CDU.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/german-parties-pain-threshold-immigration-coalition-talks-134519568--business.html
Both the Liberals and The Greens would have opposed the new daft sex laws. However, that isn't the issue at the moment.
HB. Nice to have you back as yourself, well, as your persona.
Cheers.
Citizen Kane
11-21-17, 12:38
Having been in this hobby for many years, having close contact to a lot of working or ex working girls.So the judge only gave you 4 months inside for that BBBJ?
Seems reasonable.
Hi,
I like bimbos with big silicone tits.
Which of the big clubs in Hessen or RNW should I visit this week? Any names of bimbos currently working?
Thanks.
ExpatLover
11-21-17, 20:59
Of course, we may never know anything we hear from the girls themselves. Then again, how come you know? I've seen single girls working in FKK's fishing for boyfriends on facebook even too. There is hardly any set standard rules in this game. But of course many things makes sense. What you say is just one. No need to mention names, but you are right in that all the girls I was thinking of is at least 26.I never believe what a FKK girl is saying, what is always interesting is to be 30 minutes before opening time on the club and to see many cars with Romanian plates dropping girls.
At the club, obviously man inside the cars and famous girls walking in the club.
MarquisdeSade1
11-24-17, 02:11
Headline: "Merkel's fourth term in doubt after would-be partner pulls out".
I guess she's really upset about not getting that cream pie.Christian Lindner for Chancellor!
MarquisdeSade1
11-24-17, 02:44
Headline: "Merkel's fourth term in doubt after would-be partner pulls out".
I guess she's really upset about not getting that cream pie.http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-coalition-talks-against-backdrop-of-history-a-1179807.html
MarquisdeSade1
12-02-17, 02:08
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/12/01/asylum-seeker-sentenced-trying-pay-prostitute-photocopied-cash/
Horny Harry
12-03-17, 11:00
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the enforcement of the "Prostitutes Protection Act" begins on 1 January, 2018. Providers will then be required to have on their person ID cards proving that they have registered as sex workers with a local authority. Am I correct? Can anyone inform me of which WG other than the hard core providers will do this? From my verbal interaction with sex workers they pride themselves on anonymity. They will now be required to have written proof of involvement in their trade at some office. Does anyone foresee like me a decline in the number of our friends at FKKs?I spoke to a (German) girl in GT a couple of days ago, and she told me that it takes a couple of weeks to get everything organised.
What they apparently need is some sort of a real ID card (complete with their picture and fingerprint on it!) that identifies them as prostitutes, similar to a drivers license or a taxi driver permit. In order to get this ID card, the girls have to jump through a couple of bureaucratic hoops; do a medical examination and have a registered address in Germany are the main ones.
As anyone who has ever lived and worked in Germany knows that the German bureaucracy is pretty slow and outdated. Any Romanian girl who thinks that she can just show up on January 2nd at some government office and walk out with a 'prostitution license' a few hours later is probably totally mistaken. For example getting a new or replacement drivers license in Germany can easily take 2-3 weeks because the local office does not create the new drivers license, but instead everything gets shipped to a central government printing office, and this German girl I talked to was saying that she is already setting up appointments in her home town, but the approaching holidays will not make things easier. Effectively speaking most government offices only work at 50% capacity during the last two weeks of the year.
Apparently most clubs are doing almost nothing to help the girls, many of whom don't speak much German, and the German girl I talked to was speculating that it will be very very quiet in many German FKK clubs starting from January 1st, 2018.
Guesstimating from my own, and I freely admit, totally unscientific poll in Sharks and GT, many Romanian girls will either; a) not be ready to work after the 1st of January 2018, b) are taking a long vacation in order to reconsider working as a prostitute because they are fearful of the lack of anonymity * and the bureaucratic paper trail, or c) are seriously contemplating to relocate their services to Switzerland or Austria.
The most hilarious thing however was when I asked the girls who decided that they will stay after Jan 1st, how much tax and social premiums (state pension, health care) they think they will have to pay. Most girls think they'll need to pay 5-10%.
* for example, a girl told me that on tax returns it will show that she works as a prostitute, and should she ever want to get married (thus requiring you to file a joint tax return) her future husband will be able to see what she did for a living. Furthermore, also having a house, apartment or even a bank account in Romania might complicate the tax returns, requiring girls to file under the dual taxation regulation requirement. Generally speaking these dual tax treaties within the EU prevent you from having to pay tax in two countries, but you still have to declare it by filing a (pro forma) tax return, and all banks in the EU now require you to provide them with a TIN (Tax Identification Number) of the country of residence. The net is closing, very quickly.
ExpatLover
12-03-17, 20:47
I spoke to a (German) girl in GT a couple of days ago, and she told me that it takes a couple of weeks to get everything organised.
What they apparently need is some sort of a real ID card (complete with their picture and fingerprint on it!) that identifies them as prostitutes, similar to a drivers license or a taxi driver permit. In order to get this ID card, the girls have to jump through a couple of bureaucratic hoops; do a medical examination and have a registered address in Germany are the main ones.
As anyone who has ever lived and worked in Germany knows that the German bureaucracy is pretty slow and outdated. Any Romanian girl who thinks that she can just show up on January 2nd at some government office and walk out with a 'prostitution license' a few hours later is probably totally mistaken. For example getting a new or replacement drivers license in Germany can easily take 2-3 weeks because the local office does not create the new drivers license, but instead everything gets shipped to a central government printing office, and this German girl I talked to was saying that she is already setting up appointments in her home town, but the approaching holidays will not make things easier. Effectively speaking most government offices only work at 50% capacity during the last two weeks of the year.
Apparently most clubs are doing almost nothing to help the girls, many of whom don't speak much German, and the German girl I talked to was speculating that it will be very very quiet in many German FKK clubs starting from January 1st, 2018..You are trying to enter open doors, we all know that the registration will strongly impact the LU of the clubs, now we are entering in the hard of the things also be aware that the girls will pay far more income taxes than the 25 euros per day probably 40 percent of their earnings.
ExpatLover
12-03-17, 20:52
I spoke to a (German) girl in GT a couple of days ago, and she told me that it takes a couple of weeks to get everything organised.
What they apparently need is some sort of a real ID card (complete with their picture and fingerprint on it!) that identifies them as prostitutes, similar to a drivers license or a taxi driver permit. In order to get this ID card, the girls have to jump through a couple of bureaucratic hoops; do a medical examination and have a registered address in Germany are the main ones.
As anyone who has ever lived and worked in Germany knows that the German bureaucracy is pretty slow and outdated. Any Romanian girl who thinks that she can just show up on January 2nd at some government office and walk out with a 'prostitution license' a few hours later is probably totally mistaken. For example getting a new or replacement drivers license in Germany can easily take 2-3 weeks because the local office does not create the new drivers license, but instead everything gets shipped to a central government printing office, and this German girl I talked to was saying that she is already setting up appointments in her home town, but the approaching holidays will not make things easier. Effectively speaking most government offices only work at 50% capacity during the last two weeks of the year.
Apparently most clubs are doing almost nothing to help the girls, many of whom don't speak much German, and the German girl I talked to was speculating that it will be very very quiet in many German FKK clubs starting from January 1st, 2018..Since many months I am trying to explain it but some guys always want to be positive I just try to be realistic, for mr it is a end of many years of easy income for many girls now a lot of things will change their life and probably reduce their income of around 30 percent. All the girls without fix address in Germany will face strong pressure as the girls who the family in Romania is not aware about their situation.
Triptogamont
12-03-17, 22:23
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!Didn't it already fall on July 1?
Rogue Nation
12-03-17, 22:30
Registering and paying tax will still be two different things. I don't see any reason to panic. A girl at GT just told me she went to register, didn't take long, she got her piece of paper and is allowed to work all over Germany, she is living in theüsseldorf. I don't see the end of prostitution in Germany. Girls without a registered address in Germany can give a so called "Zustellanschrift", an address of a help facility for example. The registration paper can show an alias that doesn't have to be the working name either.
https://www.prostituiertenschutzgesetz.info/wp-content/uploads/Hurenpass-Muster-922x1024.jpg
MarquisdeSade1
12-03-17, 23:31
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/12/03/germany-offers-voluntary-repatriation-payments-migrants-will-go-home/
Horny Harry
12-04-17, 12:50
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Member #4581
12-04-17, 13:37
Registering and paying tax will still be two different things. I don't see any reason to panic. A girl at GT just told me she went to register, didn't take long, she got her piece of paper and is allowed to work all over Germany, she is living in thesseldorf. I don't see the end of prostitution in Germany. Girls without a registered address in Germany can give a so called "Zustellanschrift", an address of a help facility for example. The registration paper can show an alias that doesn't have to be the working name either.
https://www.prostituiertenschutzgesetz.info/wp-content/uploads/Hurenpass-Muster-922x1024.jpgThank you. Very helpful.
Registering and paying tax will still be two different things. I don't see any reason to panic. A girl at GT just told me she went to register, didn't take long, she got her piece of paper and is allowed to work all over Germany, she is living in thesseldorf. I don't see the end of prostitution in Germany. Girls without a registered address in Germany can give a so called "Zustellanschrift", an address of a help facility for example. The registration paper can show an alias that doesn't have to be the working name either.
https://www.prostituiertenschutzgesetz.info/wp-content/uploads/Hurenpass-Muster-922x1024.jpgOK, so what's left to fear then? The pep talk thingy? (LOL) Or the picture?
If they can use a nickname and a temporary address, then that settles the two most important fears. Great news!
ExpatLover
12-04-17, 19:53
Registering and paying tax will still be two different things. I don't see any reason to panic. A girl at GT just told me she went to register, didn't take long, she got her piece of paper and is allowed to work all over Germany, she is living in thesseldorf. I don't see the end of prostitution in Germany. Girls without a registered address in Germany can give a so called "Zustellanschrift", an address of a help facility for example. The registration paper can show an alias that doesn't have to be the working name either.
https://www.prostituiertenschutzgesetz.info/wp-content/uploads/Hurenpass-Muster-922x1024.jpgNobody is panicking, but the things are not simple, not one girl I spoke with in the recent months are telling me that the new law has something positive for her same comment.
Is also coming from the managers of the clubs. Probably the girls will have to pay far higher income taxes than the 25 euros per day actually.
Registering and paying tax will still be two different things. I don't see any reason to panic. A girl at GT just told me she went to register, didn't take long, she got her piece of paper and is allowed to work all over Germany, she is living in thesseldorf. I don't see the end of prostitution in Germany. Girls without a registered address in Germany can give a so called "Zustellanschrift", an address of a help facility for example. The registration paper can show an alias that doesn't have to be the working name either.
https://www.prostituiertenschutzgesetz.info/wp-content/uploads/Hurenpass-Muster-922x1024.jpgI won't panic but will be cautious. Will wait on reports on female attendance at FKKs after January 1, 2018 before booking flight to Germany.
Horny Harry
12-04-17, 23:54
I won't panic but will be cautious. Will wait on reports on female attendance at FKKs after January 1, 2018 before booking flight to Germany.January is a quiet month anyways, but I think January 2018 will be very very very quiet.
Claude Challe
12-05-17, 20:07
This is not the end of the world, these girls should hire a German lawyer and share costs!
So they can use a fake address plus a fake name? Why even bother with the charade?
OK, so what's left to fear then? The pep talk thingy? (LOL) Or the picture?
If they can use a nickname and a temporary address, then that settles the two most important fears. Great news!
Rogue Nation
12-06-17, 13:35
This is not the end of the world, these girls should hire a German lawyer and share costs!And what exactly should the lawyer do?
MarquisdeSade1
12-06-17, 14:04
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-42231675/sex-worker-defends-using-airbnbs-as-pop-up-brothels
Foreman371
12-06-17, 14:53
The BBBJ law is insane and now this. Why is the German government working so hard to ruin their own sex industry, literally chasing away paying customers.
And what exactly should the lawyer do?Have sex for a discount?
Claude Challe
12-06-17, 18:41
And what exactly should the lawyer do?Advise and take care of administrative procedures, too complicated and scary for most girls.
Easier to just give up.
ExpatLover
12-06-17, 20:17
The BBBJ law is insane and now this. Why is the German government working so hard to ruin their own sex industry, literally chasing away paying customers.Just because it is a very small part of their successful economy and mostly in the hands of foreign investors or motorcycle gangs, as simple as that.
Advise and take care of administrative procedures, too complicated and scary for most girls.
Easier to just give up.Which part of it is actually too complicated in this situation here then? Waking up and going to the pep talk? Turning on the alarm? Having a picture taken? Find out your temporary home address? Weite down a nickname on a paper? Attach a stamp to a letter? Or hand in a form to a person?
The BBBJ law is insane and now this. Why is the German government working so hard to ruin their own sex industry, literally chasing away paying customers.My favorite women for having sex with are caucasian women. I have tried Prague, Amsterdam, Vienna, Paris and London; I have read on the forum about Switzerland (expensive). If Germany goes the way of these other European destinations I think I will have to forget caucasian women altogether as I only get good sessions with Latinas and Asians in the States. Will travel more often to Latin America and Asia.
My favorite women for having sex with are caucasian women.Why limit yourself to the Caucasus? It is a very restricted area and a mountainous one at that. No reason for it to be an abundant source of good-looking women.
Rogue Nation
12-08-17, 10:00
Advise and take care of administrative procedures, too complicated and scary for most girls.
Easier to just give up.The clubs will help the girls. No girls = no customers = no clubs.
DoubleHappy
12-09-17, 17:53
If you will come to Shanghai soon, I suggest a high class escort Agency to you.
Check here: https://twitter.com/sexybaby8898.
I won't panic but will be cautious. Will wait on reports on female attendance at FKKs after January 1, 2018 before booking flight to Germany.Nah I just booked my flight for mid February for DUS, worst case I drive across to NL and hit up YY. Plus I heard YY is pretty good these days.
ExpatLover
12-10-17, 04:42
Nah I just booked my flight for mid February for DUS, worst case I drive across to NL and hit up YY. Plus I heard YY is pretty good these days.No need for me to drive to YY, there are so many good clubs in Germany around DUS with very sexy girls.
Claude Challe
12-10-17, 10:13
Which part of it is actually too complicated in this situation here then? Waking up and going to the pep talk? Turning on the alarm? Having a picture taken? Find out your temporary home address? Weite down a nickname on a paper? Attach a stamp to a letter? Or hand in a form to a person?You're probably right, but I know a lot of girls who have already decided to stop without checking carefully.
The disinformation is very strong and the clubs do not seem to take care of this aspect.
For example, a girl told me Friday not to be able to come back in January because she was not yet 21 years old!
She returns to her country.
After my brilliant first ever FKK visit to Artemis which I'm planning to visit again as well as other FKK venues in the Spring.
However I can't wait that long so plan to fit in a brief one night trip early in February (providing the new registration law in January doesn't destroy the FKK scene!
It's easy travelling to most clubs daytime using public transport but I will be leaving whichever Club at closing time so hence my only choice is a very early morning taxi to the airport!
Artemis is just €20 to Tegal airport but are there any others of a similar distance?
I'm looking for a Club with a good selection of ladies with decent wellbeing facilities as I will be there for several hours.
I like the look of Sharks & Oase but I'm guessing it's a €50 taxi fare to the airport.
The only similar taxi fare to Artemis looks to me as if it's The Stuttgart Paradise club to airport.
Any help would be appreciated.
We will see soon the effects of registration.
All I know is that one club at least has made significant efforts to help the girls working there to be registered. The final stage of registration seems to involve a short appointment at an office only minutes away from the club. Girls there so far as I can tell are extremely positive about the new requirements of registration.
Of course, other members will know about other clubs where it may be very different.
ExpatLover
12-10-17, 20:59
We will see soon the effects of registration.
All I know is that one club at least has made significant efforts to help the girls working there to be registered. The final stage of registration seems to involve a short appointment at an office only minutes away from the club. Girls there so far as I can tell are extremely positive about the new requirements of registration.
Of course, other members will know about other clubs where it may be very different.Probably you are speaking about World, the registration seems not to be a too big issue but the income tax could strongly hit the income of the girls.
Member #4585
12-11-17, 11:33
We will see soon the effects of registration.
All I know is that one club at least has made significant efforts to help the girls working there to be registered. The final stage of registration seems to involve a short appointment at an office only minutes away from the club. Girls there so far as I can tell are extremely positive about the new requirements of registration.
Of course, other members will know about other clubs where it may be very different.Totally agree that clubs have an incentive to support girls with become registered as Tutes.
Some clubs have seen to be more proactive than other clubs at helping the Tutes become legit to work in 2018. Let us hope more clubs step forward on the issue.
The reality is that many clubs will just leave it to the girls to do due to the adminstration hassle thinking there will always more girls coming for the work.
All I know is that one club at least has made significant efforts to help the girls working there to be registered. The final stage of registration seems to involve a short appointment at an office only minutes away from the club. Girls there so far as I can tell are extremely positive about the new requirements of registration.
Some clubs have seen to be more proactive than other clubs at helping the Tutes become legit to work in 2018. Let us hope more clubs step forward on the issue.
Which Club?
DeanoBrisbane
12-12-17, 17:20
Hi,
I am sure this has been covered already, but things change regularly and I was hoping to get the latest from the regulars.
I am visiting Germany from Australia for 5 - 7 days in January (2nd onwards, spending NYE in Amsterdam). I plan on staying in Dusseldorf / Cologne for about 3 days and in Frankfurt for 2 days and I plan to visit about 5 - 8 FKKs during this time and was hoping you guys can help me make a list of the best clubs to visit.
To provide some context this will be my first visit to FKKs. I am looking to get some good GFE with DFK, BBBJ etc. I am not much into PSE but plan on having at least a few threesomes. I will be driving from Amsterdam and was also wondering if the clubs normally frown upon guys smoking a discreet joint.
So far, I am thinking of YinYang, Goldentime, LivingRoom, Acapulco / Aca Gold, DolceVita, Samya, Sharks, Palace and Oase. Can you help me narrow down this list or suggest any other alternatives. I am just looking for a good time and not too worried about entry cost etc, having said that if I a club has a reputation for girls to be pushy / upsell everything I would rather avoid that.
Thanks in advance.
Which Club?Sorry but it isn't.
Which Club?Reasonable question. Sorry but I am not going to say as I could then be outed at the club. I put in a lot of effort getting the trust of girls and don't want to abuse it.
Anyway, we are only talking overall trends, not compiling study.
ExpatLover
12-12-17, 18:32
Which Club?I already gave the name what I think is the answer, the info is coming from the girls.
ExpatLover
12-13-17, 18:54
I only mongered in Germany, despite the new law It was the best year for me, first for the escort part I met some very beautiful german real students who are obviously not having 10 guys per day, really extremely nice GFE with some of them. Second for the FKK part, many nice sessions in Shark, and Oase and in a club in NRW, I believe that I never went with so many young sweet and natural girls, some negative point still remaining, I was not able to find a great club in Stuttgart and Berlin, even Leipzig or Potsdam. For me at least can t feel any impact from the new law, third and least point I really hope that World will be able to strengthen significantly their LU so we can come back to 2010.2017 was a great year hopping the same for 2018.
Ray Purchase
12-16-17, 18:31
Hey all,
Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I will be visiting several NRW clubs at the end of February 2018 and was hoping to get some recommendations on new clubs to try based off of my interests and the clubs that I have previously attended (I have enjoyed them all to a certain extent, LOL).
Interests: More than anything else, I value true DFK, like the kind reminiscent of the make-out sessions we all used to have with our high-school sweethearts. Obviously, this is a personal, YMMV offering, but I am looking for clubs where this is the rule rather than the exception. I should note here that I almost always session for one hour (based off of what I've read here, this seems to make a difference in what a woman is willing to offer) and that I have, on one occasion, paid for DFK (this is something that I am not opposed doing again as long as the goods are delivered as promised).
Previously Attended Clubs: PSR, Sharks, GT, LR, Samya, Babylon (Elsdorf), Bernd's, World, Dietzenbach. I have consistently had good experiences at GT, Babylon (Elsdorf), and Sharks in terms of finding what I seek (namely, DFK). My law of averages tends to run a little higher at Samya and World (that is to say, I have to session with at least 3-4 women before I find what I'm looking for), but when I finally get a hit, it is always a home run at these establishments. Although I like Dietzenbach, I won't have a chance to revisit it in February; as far as PSR, LR, and Bernd's go, I could take them or leave them.
Clubs I Am Interested In Knowing More About: DV thesseldorf, VV, PHG, ACA, ACA Gold, and Oceans. Any information on these clubs (primarily with respect to DFK) would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
Kalle Kula
12-17-17, 21:16
At what club is the biggest chance of seeing some public action?
And maybe be part of the action.
Not in a dark Kino, but in full daylight.
Wish I had started my career during the BBBJ haydays.
At a normal FKK / saunaclub-babylon that is.
Swinger / gangbangs clubs don't tempt me.
ExpatLover
12-18-17, 06:34
At what club is the biggest chance of seeing some public action?
And maybe be part of the action.
Not in a dark Kino, but in full daylight.
Wish I had started my career during the BBBJ haydays.
At a normal FKK / saunaclub-babylon that is.
Swinger / gangbangs clubs don't tempt me.Very difficult, can happen but nothing is planned, next year will be even more difficult to find it.
Member #4581
12-22-17, 04:03
At what club is the biggest chance of seeing some public action?
And maybe be part of the action.
Not in a dark Kino, but in full daylight.
Wish I had started my career during the BBBJ haydays.
At a normal FKK / saunaclub-babylon that is.
Swinger / gangbangs clubs don't tempt me.Would you be willing to show as well as see?
One can't see when others are not willing to show. A lot of men want to see, but few men want to be seen.
Btw, bbbj is illegal but there is no changes in law re: public sex.
ResidentOfMars
12-22-17, 05:51
After my brilliant first ever FKK visit to Artemis which I'm planning to visit again as well as other FKK venues in the Spring.
However I can't wait that long so plan to fit in a brief one night trip early in February (providing the new registration law in January doesn't destroy the FKK scene!
It's easy travelling to most clubs daytime using public transport but I will be leaving whichever Club at closing time so hence my only choice is a very early morning taxi to the airport!
Artemis is just 20 to Tegal airport but are there any others of a similar distance?
I'm looking for a Club with a good selection of ladies with decent wellbeing facilities as I will be there for several hours.
I like the look of Sharks & Oase but I'm guessing it's a 50 taxi fare to the airport.
The only similar taxi fare to Artemis looks to me as if it's The Stuttgart Paradise club to airport.
Any help would be appreciated.How early are we talking?
For Sharks, there is an airport bus from Darmstadt HBF which starts very early (4-430 am), and quite inexpensive (5 euro or so). So you only need a taxi from Sharks to the train station. Later, there are also trains from Darmstadt to FRA.
FlyByCable
12-22-17, 12:00
At what club is the biggest chance of seeing some public action?
Public sex, I have seen it a couple of times been made outside in the summer, at clubs like Oase, World and Sharks.
I had public sex at FKK World once, outside in the grass on a towel when it was like 30 degrees.
A strange feeling to fuck a beautiful women when people walks by and look at us. LOL.
At what club is the biggest chance of seeing some public action?
And maybe be part of the action.
Not in a dark Kino, but in full daylight.
Wish I had started my career during the BBBJ haydays.
At a normal FKK / saunaclub-babylon that is.
Swinger / gangbangs clubs don't tempt me.I once saw outdoor action at Golden Time on a warm summer day.
ExpatLover
12-22-17, 19:00
Public sex, I have seen it a couple of times been made outside in the summer, at clubs like Oase, World and Sharks.
I had public sex at FKK World once, outside in the grass on a towel when it was like 30 degrees.
A strange feeling to fuck a beautiful women when people walks by and look at us. LOL.Yes, but the garden is so big, you are most of the time far from the action, in hundred of visits I saw only 1 time this summer at World a public action very near from the sauna exit.
BigBuddy69
12-22-17, 19:07
In Babylon Elsdorf it happens quite often, and the kino is not dark (or it wasn't last time I was there).
I dit it myself in the main room of Babylon, in the kino and in the garden of World. At Finca too in the garden.
Greetings to all,
I would like to learn something interesting about FKKK clubs. I have never been to FKK // this is not how much the desire for sex and lust is how much curiosity. Also I want to see my old friends in Germany and drink beer. I really want to feel this atmosphere when dozens of naked girls are walking around. But some guys write that in last time in these clubs 80-90% of girls from Romania and it's not always good. I do not quite understand-they are not very beautiful or they have a bad body or are they just manners? What is the problem with this? I think that in January maybe in February I will be able to save enough money for this visit and see these famous clubs. Perhaps someone knows in Germany girls of mixed race or from Latin America or Kurdistan or Arab countries who are semi-pro and pro. I am ready to share my contacts of girls in Ukraine (Kiev and other cities) and a bit in Moldova. (some of these Ukrainian contacts you can see in the photo).
If someone wants to help a financially student girl, then write me. She's 18 years old. I gave her money but she still has a difficult situation and she needs more money. She is ready to take $ 100 per night and $ 200 per night + day. This is a blonde in the photo / as far as I understand it they want to drive her out of the university and she needs a bribe or something like that. She need money preferably until the new year. I have her contacts. (blonde slim girl with a phone in her hand).
People with less than 10 post histories. Where are they coming from?
Hey all,
Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I will be visiting several NRW clubs at the end of February 2018 and was hoping to get some recommendations on new clubs to try based off of my interests and the clubs that I have previously attended (I have enjoyed them all to a certain extent, LOL).
Interests: More than anything else, I value true DFK, like the kind reminiscent of the make-out sessions we all used to have with our high-school sweethearts. Obviously, this is a personal, YMMV offering, but I am looking for clubs where this is the rule rather than the exception. I should note here that I almost always session for one hour (based off of what I've read here, this seems to make a difference in what a woman is willing to offer) and that I have, on one occasion, paid for DFK (this is something that I am not opposed doing again as long as the goods are delivered as promised).
Previously Attended Clubs: PSR, Sharks, GT, LR, Samya, Babylon (Elsdorf), Bernd's, World, Dietzenbach. I have consistently had good experiences at GT, Babylon (Elsdorf), and Sharks in terms of finding what I seek (namely, DFK). My law of averages tends to run a little higher at Samya and World (that is to say, I have to session with at least 3-4 women before I find what I'm looking for), but when I finally get a hit, it is always a home run at these establishments. Although I like Dietzenbach, I won't have a chance to revisit it in February; as far as PSR, LR, and Bernd's go, I could take them or leave them.
Clubs I Am Interested In Knowing More About: DV thesseldorf, VV, PHG, ACA, ACA Gold, and Oceans. Any information on these clubs (primarily with respect to DFK) would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!I like Babylon the best for DFK. Samya has been more miss than hit for me, but I LOVE the dance club atmosphere there.
Good luck to you.
Please share your experience as my interest is similar to yours and I hope to go to FRA / NRW in Feb.
BigBuddy69
12-22-17, 22:17
In PHG, not so sure and lots of scammers. In Aca Gold you have a good chance of having what you want but the look of the ladies is not always the best. In Aca Velbert you have really less chances but the ladies look better in average.
ExpatLover
12-23-17, 13:35
Greetings to all,
I would like to learn something interesting about FKKK clubs. I have never been to FKK // this is not how much the desire for sex and lust is how much curiosity. Also I want to see my old friends in Germany and drink beer. I really want to feel this atmosphere when dozens of naked girls are walking around. But some guys write that in last time in these clubs 80-90% of girls from Romania and it's not always good. I do not quite understand-they are not very beautiful or they have a bad body or are they just manners? What is the problem with this? I think that in January maybe in February I will be able to save enough money for this visit and see these famous clubs. Perhaps someone knows in Germany girls of mixed race or from Latin America or Kurdistan or Arab countries who are semi-pro and pro. I am ready to share my contacts of girls in Ukraine (Kiev and other cities) and a bit in Moldova. (some of these Ukrainian contacts you can see in the photo).
If someone wants to help a financially student girl, then write me. She's 18 years old. I gave her money but she still has a difficult situation and she needs more money. She is ready to take $ 100 per night and $ 200 per night + day. This is a blonde in the photo / as far as I understand it they want to drive her out of the university and she needs a bribe or something like that. She need money preferably until the new year. I have her contacts. (blonde slim girl with a phone in her hand).Sorry but I dont believe this forum is the right place to propose what you do in the second part of the report, be careful not to be in trouble with the police by proposing those kind of things.
Hey all,
Lask week Oase and Sharks had really bad cast. Almost left without having a session. In comparison to my visit before (Mid Aug) Oase had a lot of insane hot cast! Anyways, I will be there again next week. Jan /2 until 9th. I know its not the best time to visit, but any recommendation?
LukasFlirt
12-30-17, 23:12
People with less than 10 post histories. Where are they coming from?People cashing in their bitcoin (s)?
Citizen Kane
12-30-17, 23:40
People with less than 10 post histories. Where are they coming from?Undercover police coming for Neurosynth.
MarquisdeSade1
12-31-17, 07:57
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/12/30/german-police-boss-slams-nye-safe-zones-women-sends-devastating-message/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
http://www.dw.com/en/the-beginning-of-the-end-for-german-chancellor-angela-merkel/a-41961335
People with less than 10 post histories. Where are they coming from?I'm new to the hobby. The number of WG's I session-ed with, will be less than my number of post I wrote (after this gets posted).
Member #4585
12-31-17, 20:03
People with less than 10 post histories. Where are they coming from? New members arising from the open door policy to immigration to remedy the current inverted pyramid of Europe having fewer young people to support the older people.
Kosher Kowboy
12-31-17, 22:11
We joke in the Dietz thread that their pussies (they use the bidet do rid themselves of the odor of the used condoms their clients use) may be the cleanest item in the club. In a conversation with a very regular FKK goer of multiple clubs I was told that is more than some ' normal FKK' girls clean. I was told many just use wipes (the same ones they clean our dicks off with before blowjobs) and that is their clean up between men? In theory you may be licking another man's slobber off her breasts if she doesn't clean up there.
Apparently some shower but many clubs I am told lack the showers (or enough) for them all to do such. Perhaps the ladies locker rooms vary by club. I have noticed at Mainhatten in the past girls come up the stairs drying their tits off so they must have showered. In Mexico they would stand under the shower stream of water (most MX brothels lack shower heads) and just wash their genitalia. I would think or did think the girls in the FKK clubs do the same (wash just the genitalia and breasts) and do not get their hair wet. Mexican girls are clean freaks though, and they always kiss their crosses or Jesus on their pendants after getting paid as they know they have sinned in the eyes of the Lord.
I guess Sharks has a shower as I am told by one guy who eats out a very popular Shark that she tastes and smells like the shower soap the guys use so she must shower and another Shark has a pussy that smells like roses (must bring her own soap). So some of the Sharks do shower but I am told many do not, just use wipes.
I do not mind a dirty Shark or any girl (my standards are quite low) although the smell of condoms is horrible if you DATY and I thought my Queens were dirty (they still are, will always be) ; but I am simply curious as we enter 2018 how most of these ladies who work the clubs clean up between men. Maybe if they do indeed bring rose scented soaps they can deduct them from their taxes next year (if German tax codes allow for deductions for work expenses for independent contractors).
Member #4585
12-31-17, 22:39
We joke in the Dietz thread that their pussies (they use the bidet do rid themselves of the odor of the used condoms their clients use) may be the cleanest item in the club. In a conversation with a very regular FKK goer of multiple clubs I was told that is more than some ' normal FKK' girls clean. I was told many just use wipes (the same ones they clean our dicks off with before blowjobs) and that is their clean up between men? In theory you may be licking another man's slobber off her breasts if she doesn't clean up there.
I guess Sharks has a shower as I am told by one guy who eats out a very popular Shark that she tastes and smells like the shower soap the guys use so she must shower and another Shark has a pussy that smells like roses (must bring her own soap). So some of the Sharks do shower but I am told many do not, just use wipes.
I do not mind a dirty Shark or any girl (my standards are quite low) although the smell of condoms is horrible if you DATY and I thought my Queens were dirty (they still are, will always be) ; but I am simply curious as we enter 2018 how most of these ladies who work the clubs clean up between men.As has been famously debated on the Golden Time thread, in the women's locker room there is just two bidets. No showers. As such for the girls to really shower after a session the girls either use the shower in the few rooms that have an en suite, in the communal shower in the sauna area or in the men's locker room at Golden Time. Guys would think it was an absolute novelty for girls to shower with the men in the men's locker room at Golden Time. The reality is that those girls who shower in the men's locker room were the cleanest. If there are say 70-80 girls at Golden Time sharing two bidets then not all will be waiting in line to use the bidet so will use wet wipes and hardly will she clean all over if a guy has been slobbering all over her body licking her tits and licking her ass crack.
At Sharks if I understand correct there is 4 showers for the maybe 150 girls that can be working at the shift change. Some girls come out of the locker room much faster than others. Also sometimes a shower cubicle is busted or some girl has messed it up with her stuff so the other girls avoid that shower cubicle at Sharks.
So how clean can the girls get if they are not fully showered between men?
Kosher Kowboy
12-31-17, 22:57
So how clean can the girls get if they are not fully showered between men?I have only eaten pussy in Mainhatten, Artemis, Oase, Sharks and Alice's Adult Day Care Center (Sounds cleaner than it's real name).
And so far have yet to smell a condom or rotten pussy and many FKK girls I know I have fucked after at least 5-10 men before me (in one lady's case 18, but she uses a bidet unless requested otherwise).
MarquisdeSade1
01-01-18, 00:16
A poll released Sunday, revealed that nearly 50 percent of Germans would prefer that Merkel resign immediately.
Addressing the increasingly tense debate in Germany that's seen some political opponents describe her as a "traitor".
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/12/31/merkel-calls-for-unity-as-nearly-half-germans-want-her-gone.html
Member #4585
01-01-18, 02:05
I have only eaten pussy in Mainhatten, Artemis, Oase, Sharks and Alice's Adult Day Care Center (Sounds cleaner than it's real name).
And so far have yet to smell a condom or rotten pussy and many FKK girls I know I have fucked after at least 5-10 men before me (in one lady's case 18, but she uses a bidet unless requested otherwise).In 99% of cases I don't smell condom on a girl when eating her pussy, but there is the odd occasion you get that rubber like smell emanating from her groin area.
Also in 99.7% of cases there is no rotten smell from a girl's pussy either even at Alice's.
I guess we are lucky our sense of smell is less profound than others.
But seriously when you consider the lack of bathroom facilities for the girls in some clubs and the number of girls using those scarce bathroom facilities there are girls taking short cuts to get themselves cleaned up and back on the floor to earn that next 50 euros.
Just take a think about it for an informed decision on whether FKK is right for you.
Member #4585
01-01-18, 04:02
I do not mind a dirty Shark or any girl (my standards are quite low.In reply to the connotation that girls are taking short cuts in cleaning up in between sessions, there is the proposition that there could be multiple "Nein Vashings" for Kosher Kowboy to enjoy. Girls are not cleaning themselves as well as they could before the next man comes since the girl is hurrying to get out and back onto the floor to make money. Down time waiting for a shower cubicle to become free is not earning them money.
Yeah, really there are girls take short cuts to get them cleaned up. Wet wipes are used extensively. Odorless wet wipes. So hence you are not smelling the Sharks or Oase liquid soap smell which some girls will have on them.
Yup, there will be multiple "Nein Vashings" all over Sharks and guys are licking and kissing them all over their bodies. You could be licking some guy's cum if you are DATY at Sharks or Dietz. Tonight someone is eating cum from one of your favourite Dietz inked up girls.
Yes, you had better believe it. Some punter may have been licking your come out of Nein Vashing's pussy after you had finished with her. Just like some guy is licking some guy's come off some girls tits from the man who before came all over her tits as she did not do a full shower wash and may have used a few wet wipes. Even if the girl was using the bidet she would not be splashing water all over her chest area in case the water spray hit her face with her carefully placed make up or her carefully coif hair.
Or if you came all over a Princess' face then the next man is licking your come off her face when he is kissing her lips and cheeks. Many girls will allow guys to come on their face including many a Precious Princess. Just ask what the Precious Princess will do for an extra. Melanie had a menu list of what extras she had.
Just like some shark girl has a Coke can size cock banging her deep up to her cervix making her work hard while in the next room over another Shark girl has another man with no cock barely inside of her and has it easy. You get all sorts.
Milfotronic
01-01-18, 04:07
So this question might have as many answers as members in this forum but I ask it anyway:
What German FKK would you consider the best when it comes to friendly women and excellent service?
MarquisdeSade1
01-01-18, 06:44
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/454100/norway-immigration-and-some-myths-about-economics-immigration
Rogue Nation
01-01-18, 10:48
You could be licking some guy's cum if you are DATY at Sharks or Dietz. Tonight someone is eating cum from one of your favourite Dietz inked up girls.
Yes, you had better believe it. Some punter may have been licking your come out of Nein Vashing's pussy after you had finished with her. Just like some guy is licking some guy's come off some girls tits from the man who before came all over her tits as she did not do a full shower wash and may have used a few wet wipes. Even if the girl was using the bidet she would not be splashing water all over her chest area in case the water spray hit her face with her carefully placed make up or her carefully coif hair.
That's been the case since P6 exists. Girls not taking extensive showers or no showers at all. Even if the clubs have all the facilities needed. You might lick cum of her skin, her pussy or while kissing her. The rooms in the RLD don't even have any showers but washing basins only. At Dietzenbach guys pay girls not to wash after they have been creampied so they can add their sperm to a stranger's and lick it directly out of their pussy.
On the other hand many guys don't wash at all before entering the club and taking a girl to the room. Or after they fucked a girl they just put back their robe, go to eat, to the bar and after a few hours they take the next girl.
Rogue Nation
01-01-18, 10:51
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/12/31/merkel-calls-for-unity-as-nearly-half-germans-want-her-gone.htmlVery reliable source writing up their own reality.
Kosher Kowboy
01-01-18, 16:24
Yup, there will be multiple "Nein Vashings" all over Sharks and guys are licking and kissing them all over their bodies. You could be licking some guy's cum if you are DATY at Sharks or Dietz. Tonight someone is eating cum from one of your favourite Dietz inked up girls..I always tell myself no matter where I am I am not first nor last even if you are the first client of the day most likely the husband, boyfriend, pimp etc already filled up the girl. If the facilities truly are lacking showers than there probably are more Nein Vashings out there than just the Dietz girls. Even though the Dietz girls use a bidet it probably worsens it actually as that water gush pushes a bunch of the junk up in to the reproductive system to drip out later as it compounds itself with each guy ramming her. So the Dietz girls may have empty pussies but the rest of their guts are probably full of cum to drip out at a later point of the day. No wonder they rarely need lube.
Rarely talked about on the board yet discussed in private are the non AO FKK clubs where girls in the Frankfurt area and beyond that actually are offering AO and understandably no one would ever post those girls names on the board but we know it goes on. We also know how many guys DATY so it is rather ' shocking but not disappointing' to hear that many of the girls might (do) have dripping parts from ' Nein Vashing' between clients. I assumed all the FKK clubs had showers for the girls just like they do the men where there is never a lack of shower facilities many clubs having multiple shower areas. If the previous guy spritzed on their chests and tits and faces than kisses them as you portray than without a shower they may very well as you indicate be sampling the previous guy's leftover slobber that dried up.
Unless this shower thing is a joke and the female facilities are really loaded with shower heads?? Are they really lacking shower stalls??
Don't the girls who sleep there need showers to get ready? I guess at minimum the girls have a mouthwash dispenser for those that kiss them, after all the guy pays a premium to kiss them and I don't think he is wanting that premium to go towards lapping up the previous guys leftovers in her mouth. These girls have it made, 50 Euros for one guy to cum in their mouth than the next guy they upsell 50 E for a longer session to kiss where the other guy just came. The can make Euros on both ends of possibly ' Nein Rinsing'. Than again the tobacco probably kills some of the germs as they often smoke between men if not multiple smokes plus booze in some cases.
I will still take any pussy in Germany in any club over any pussy here in the states :D
Rogue Nation
01-01-18, 16:50
Why Nein Vashing? That's neither German nor Englisch. In German it is "Nicht Waschen" or "Nichtwäscherinnen" (female) / "Nichtwäscher" (male).
Since the deadline for registering has now passed are the clubs devoid of girls today?
Kosher Kowboy
01-01-18, 19:06
Why Nein Vashing? That's neither German nor Englisch. In German it is "Nicht Waschen" or "Nichtwscherinnen" (female) / "Nichtwscher" (male).I think because she asked ' Washing' in English but might have pronounced the ' W' as a "V' thus Vashing and I thought Nein is 'no', guess it is Nicht. I could be wrong. Either way that is how it sounded.
Horny Harry
01-01-18, 19:18
Very reliable source writing up their own reality.So the ARD, ZDF or the BBC are Oracles of Truth?
That's a false dichotomy.
I don't know why people like to discuss German politics so much. Why don't you focus on your own problems instead? It's not like US cities are free from violence either.
I am more interested in politics and social change than I am in prostitution, but I think it is destructive of this forum to get involved in general politics, other than where explicit links are made to the subject of the forum.
Rogue Nation
01-01-18, 22:33
So the ARD, ZDF or the BBC are Oracles of Truth?Didn't say that. But Fox is probably the worst source.
BadinSweet
01-01-18, 23:34
Since the deadline for registering has now passed are the clubs devoid of girls today?I was at Sharks over the weekend and the girls said they have til Feb 1st for the registration. The office in Darmstadt were not even ready for them to do the registration. They told the girls to come back after January. Some already made an appointment for the Registration (Evelina on Jan 9th, Gabriela and Lavinia on Jan 16th for example).
MarquisdeSade1
01-01-18, 23:43
I am more interested in politics and social change than I am in prostitution, but I think it is destructive of this forum to get involved in general politics, other than where explicit links are made to the subject of the forum.MR O,
You're quite funny, characterizing general politics as "destructive" (destructive to what a reasonable chap might ask?) tends to make me believe you don't think you will like the substance of the conversation, I feel if you thought you would like it, then you would characterize it as "constructive".
I know many religious people that love to discuss religion (until they start hearing opinions they don't like).
I think its fair to say if someone doesn't like a certain conversation to take place at all that is extremely troubling.
No topic should be taboo / verboten for adults, censorship (espec self-censorship) is a very dangerous thing.
I was at Sharks over the weekend and the girls said they have til Feb 1st for the registration. The office in Darmstadt were not even ready for them to do the registration. They told the girls to come back after January. Some already made an appointment for the Registration (Evelina on Jan 9th, Gabriela and Lavinia on Jan 16th for example).My girls told me they just have to make first appointment on beginning of the year, to get a number to be allowed to work by the new law, but have until mid year / August to be really registered, so, not yet the end of FKK world, snow is great and deep to ski, my new jewel is so great sending she waits for me, new year seems very enjoyable, when 2017 was my best FKK year, despite new law, but with girls who give more and more, for less and less money asked, often extras offered.
FKK land will not close yet, for those who are able to make the job to enjoy.
ExpatLover
01-02-18, 05:22
My girls told me they just have to make first appointment on beginning of the year, to get a number to be allowed to work by the new law, but have until mid year / August to be really registered, so, not yet the end of FKK world, snow is great and deep to ski, my new jewel is so great sending she waits for me, new year seems very enjoyable, when 2017 was my best FKK year, despite new law, but with girls who give more and more, for less and less money asked, often extras offered.
FKK land will not close yet, for those who are able to make the job to enjoy.You are right it is also what a girl told me, as long they have a appointment they can work, but it seems to be a special case, remember in Shark BJ without condom was still a standard up to mid of September, probably the top have management has good connections with the police authorities.
Rogue Nation
01-02-18, 09:05
I was at Sharks over the weekend and the girls said they have til Feb 1st for the registration. The office in Darmstadt were not even ready for them to do the registration. They told the girls to come back after January. Some already made an appointment for the Registration (Evelina on Jan 9th, Gabriela and Lavinia on Jan 16th for example).Correct. The authorities in Darmstadt gave the girls until February for registration. Other cities seem to be better organized, in Giessen most girls already have their registration completed and will start to work with the "WG ID" from now on.
Marquis.
I have enjoyed our many lively political discussions in person and via PM.
But I don't think I want to clog up the thread with my political views. Or indeed any other views of mine. I will restrict myself to discussing the girls.
I am sure we will meet in 2018 to discuss politics in person: all views welcome, the more the merrier :)
Cheers.
Kosher Kowboy
01-02-18, 15:01
I am sure we will meet in 2018 to discuss politics in person: all views welcome, the more the merrier :)
If we meet at Day Care and discuss Queens is that considered politics? I do not think Queens (or Kings) are elected and might fall out of the political realm. However I do not think your Queen in the United Kingdom would approve of our Queens as she does Kate and this other girl Harry dragged in.
Happy New Year to your Queen by the way, send her my best! A batch of Euros is on the way for her shortly!
:D
KK. As a subject of a country which paid :( for a King to be imported from Holland, I think you can appoint and depose your Queens as often as you like.At least we only pay for our Queens on a pay as you go basis
I will pass on your wishes to my Dietzenbach Queen, Bianca, should she grant me an aural audience. However I am currently enslaved :o to my true Queen who has briefly resurrected herself over the whatsapp ether from the Transylvanean mist
Give my greetings to Nein Vashing ( or as RN said, Nichtwascherinnen) as you will see her before me. That is a name which in an inspired way humorously destroys both the English and German languages in one fell swoop :).
Neurosynth
01-02-18, 23:53
As long as governments intrude into the private lives of individuals who mutually agree to exchange money for sex, politics will be on topic on prostitution boards. However, some politics is more directly related than others. Nevertheless even basic and abstract dualities (e. G. Conservative versus liberal, pro and con open immigration) can be so loaded that their general discussion has implications for narrow fields like prostitution. In short, politics matters in discussions of prostitution, so it should have a place here.
MarquisdeSade1
01-03-18, 04:08
As long as governments intrude into the private lives of individuals who mutually agree to exchange money for sex, politics will be on topic on prostitution boards. However, some politics is more directly related than others. Nevertheless even basic and abstract dualities (e. G. Conservative versus liberal, pro and con open immigration) can be so loaded that their general discussion has implications for narrow fields like prostitution. In short, politics matters in discussions of prostitution, so it should have a place here.Well stated!
MarquisdeSade1
01-03-18, 04:18
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-politics/german-parties-at-odds-ahead-of-coalition-talks-idUSKBN1ER04K
Rogue Nation
01-03-18, 07:53
As long as governments intrude into the private lives of individuals who mutually agree to exchange money for sex, politics will be on topic on prostitution boards. You could argue that P6 is not private but a business which government is regulating in a lot of areas. There's health regulations for many businesses in the service industry, so why not for P6?
Not to get me wrong, IMHO BBBJ ban is ridiculous. Same as the regulations around the registration.
ExpatLover
01-03-18, 08:22
As long as governments intrude into the private lives of individuals who mutually agree to exchange money for sex, politics will be on topic on prostitution boards. However, some politics is more directly related than others. Nevertheless even basic and abstract dualities (e. G. Conservative versus liberal, pro and con open immigration) can be so loaded that their general discussion has implications for narrow fields like prostitution. In short, politics matters in discussions of prostitution, so it should have a place here.It is a very complex subject, it is not only a problem of private lives, prostitution is impacting public security (money washing, drugs) and also public health. We all saw many girls completely mentally destroyed after several months or years working in a FKK being fucked 10 or 20 times or more every day, after of course the governments have to try to take care of those victims of the prostitution and try to support them to rebuild a normal life. Obviously over the years we all met also girls very happy to work in a FKK and perfectly able to deal with it, we have the 2 extremes. The FKK scene is also changing strongly in the last few years, the girls have more and more 50 hours sessions with younger guys with migration background less respecting them, for example a girl I know well whatsapp me that the 31 she had 29 sessions for 50 euros I let you imagine the negative impact on her pussy but as she told me she had no choice only young french, Turkish guys were there and not willing to pay more.
You could argue that P6 is not private but a business which government is regulating in a lot of areas. There's health regulations for many businesses in the service industry, so why not for P6?
Not to get me wrong, IMHO BBBJ ban is ridiculous. Same as the regulations around the registration.I am a little surprised the Government didn't impose VAT on each session like other commercial transactions :eek: I guess it was a step too far at the moment.
Just to ensure nobody misunderstands:I am not suggesting it would be a good idea. In fact there should be an exemption as it is a social service :)
Once the ETIAS system (like the US ESTA system) comes into effect in 2020 us US, UK, and East Asian citizens might find it a bit harder to get into Germany and spend our euros in FKK. Into the unknown.
At the very least there will be written questions about purpose of visit, health, criminal records. That is according to EU position papers. Details are yet to be filled in.
Citizen Kane
01-03-18, 18:41
Once the ETIAS system (like the US ESTA system) comes into effect in 2020 us US, UK, and East Asian citizens might find it a bit harder to get into Germany and spend our euros in FKK. Into the unknown.
At the very least there will be written questions about purpose of visit, health, criminal records. That is according to EU position papers. Details are yet to be filled in.Just tell them you're a 'refugee' from 'Syria'. You won't even need a passport!
Just tell them you're a 'refugee' from 'Syria'. You won't even need a passport! I will just tell them I am refugee from the UK, seeking asylum in an FKK. I will offer to teach the romanian girls English LOL.
Citizen Kane
01-03-18, 18:46
I will just tell them I am refugee from the UK, seeking asylum in an FKK. I will offer to teach the romanian girls English LOL.And French. And Greek.
Rogue Nation
01-03-18, 18:50
I will just tell them I am refugee from the UK, seeking asylum in an FKK. I will offer to teach the romanian girls English LOL.Wait for Brexit. We will give you asylum in Dietz's dorm.
ExpatLover
01-03-18, 19:56
You could argue that P6 is not private but a business which government is regulating in a lot of areas. There's health regulations for many businesses in the service industry, so why not for P6?
Not to get me wrong, IMHO BBBJ ban is ridiculous. Same as the regulations around the registration.For me it is not ridiculous all depends on which target you want to reach, I believe the government wants to drastically reduce the offer for the moment they seem to reach at least a part of the target, in the big FKK the LU of the last days are just terrible, probably this will strongly heat he balance sheet of those clubs. Even the non pro escort need to register and to pay income tax, also the registration could affect their ability to travel to some countries like US.
And French. And Greek.Do you mean Greek language or GREEK?
Citizen Kane
01-03-18, 20:55
Once the ETIAS system (like the US ESTA system) comes into effect in 2020 us US, UK, and East Asian citizens might find it a bit harder to get into Germany and spend our euros in FKK. Into the unknown.
At the very least there will be written questions about purpose of visit, health, criminal records. That is according to EU position papers. Details are yet to be filled in.Sorry O but...
14 year old boy with male pattern baldness, no ID or passport but known to be from a part of the world that has factions hostile to western culture...
EU response: "Come on in! Bring all your friends! The more the merrier... "
Canadian passport holder...
EU response: "Look, you're going to have to fill out this form. We can't just have anyone running about here you know. We don't know who the hell you are..."
Citizen Kane
01-03-18, 20:57
Do you mean Greek language or GREEK?Did you really need to ask ;-)
Sorry O but...
14 year old boy with male pattern baldness, no ID or passport but known to be from a part of the world that has factions hostile to western culture...
EU response: "Come on in! Bring all your friends! The more the merrier... "
Canadian passport holder...
EU response: "Look, you're going to have to fill out this form. We can't just have anyone running about here you know. We don't know who the hell you are..."No need for apology.I wouldn't have used the same words as you but you are about right (you bring out the surreal in the evolving EU views). (The point you make about 14 year olds was an issue only in the UK : Germany and Sweden imposed no age requirements)
Yes, that sums up the chronology about right. 2015 introduction of Schengen Information System to share member databases, 2015/2016 Germany and Sweden in particular let in migrants then 2017 EU reflects on the consequences on domestic politics, and then 2020 tightens its rules to keep an eye on, amongst others, those troublesome terrorists, the Canadians.
I'm not making any judgements here.
MarquisdeSade1
01-04-18, 04:21
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/899372/Angela-Merkel-Germany-EU-Brexit-Ursula-Von-Der-Leyen-coalition-government
Sorry O but...
14 year old boy with male pattern baldness, no ID or passport but known to be from a part of the world that has factions hostile to western culture...
EU response: "Come on in! Bring all your friends! The more the merrier... "
Canadian passport holder...
EU response: "Look, you're going to have to fill out this form. We can't just have anyone running about here you know. We don't know who the hell you are..."Similar to how US treats Mexicans compared to Europeans then.
Citizen Kane
01-04-18, 17:56
Similar to how US treats Mexicans compared to Europeans then.The US electorate at least got to vote for who can change the rules.
Sorry O but...
14 year old boy with male pattern baldness, no ID or passport but known to be from a part of the world that has factions hostile to western culture...
EU response: "Come on in! Bring all your friends! The more the merrier... "
Canadian passport holder...
EU response: "Look, you're going to have to fill out this form. We can't just have anyone running about here you know. We don't know who the hell you are..."OMG too funny! A 14 year-old boy with male pattern baldness hahaha!
The US electorate at least got to vote for who can change the rules.Is the wall built yet? Of course not.
Besides, the price of vegetables and help around the house would increase or, horror, you'd have you use blacks again.
But perhaps you were suggesting that the EU parliament isn't elected? This is wrong.
Citizen Kane
01-04-18, 19:00
Is the wall built yet? Of course not.
Besides, the price of vegetables and help around the house would increase or, horror, you'd have you use blacks again.
But perhaps you were suggesting that the EU parliament isn't elected? This is wrong.The EU parliament is elected but the EU commission isn't. The commission makes the rules, the parliament only rubber stamps them. It's literally the opposite of how a democracy should work. Normally politicians make the rules and the bureaucrats enact them. The EU has it the other way around.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/eu-referendum_b_9514608.html
The EU parliament is elected but the EU commission isn't. The commission makes the rules, the parliament only rubber stamps them. It's literally the opposite of how a democracy should work. Normally politicians make the rules and the bureaucrats enact them. The EU has it the other way around.And thus Brexit! Where they drive on the wrong side of the road LOL!
But perhaps you were suggesting that the EU parliament isn't elected? This is wrong.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K3tQbeuFtPQ
Don't be misled by the start. Look at 2:00 LOL.
Just for fun
CK. I read your reference to the article by Ellery in Huffington Post in the context of him being a high profile campaigner for leaving the EU.
He does point up the well established "democratic deficit" in the EU. Other non campaigning authors have suggested that this deficit has been slightly reduced by changes in recent years and may continue to be decreased slowly.
The Council of the EU is made up of national politicians, and it could be argued that this is a significant democratic input. In practice the EU is not mainly a independent entity: the power remains with elected national politicians.
Regardless of all that, UK citizens will probably from 2020 need a visa waiver to enter the EU, which may or may not become more or less democratic. As long as they let me in to visit FKKs I am happy :)
And as long as the pilot and co-pilot don't row and leave the cockpit midflight with the plane flying itself (plane from London on 1 January: discussions on democratic deficit can get heated)
Citizen Kane
01-04-18, 20:36
Regardless of all that, UK citizens will probably from 2020 need a visa waiver to enter the EU, which may or may not become more or less democratic. As long as they let me in to visit FKKs I am happy :)
From what I've read (I think we're talking about the same thing here) this visa waiver is an online form you have to fill in that lasts for 5 years and costs 5 euros.
I'm not made of fucking money...
From what I've read (I think we're talking about the same thing here) this visa waiver is an online form you have to fill in that lasts for 5 years and costs 5 euros.
I'm not made of fucking money...That is right. I'm starting to save up so I can afford it: if I put 2 euros away each year I can cover the cost.
The EU plans to make a profit out of it.
Citizen Kane
01-04-18, 21:03
CK. I read your reference to the article by Ellery in Huffington Post in the context of him being a high profile campaigner for leaving the EU.
He does point up the well established "democratic deficit" in the EU. Other non campaigning authors have suggested that this deficit has been slightly reduced by changes in recent years and may continue to be decreased slowly.
The Council of the EU is made up of national politicians, and it could be argued that this is a significant democratic input. In practice the EU is not mainly a independent entity: the power remains with elected national politicians.
Regardless of all that, UK citizens will probably from 2020 need a visa waiver to enter the EU, which may or may not become more or less democratic. As long as they let me in to visit FKKs I am happy :)
And as long as the pilot and co-pilot don't row and leave the cockpit midflight with the plane flying itself (plane from London on 1 January: discussions on democratic deficit can get heated)O, the thing that really got me interested in the EU was a documentary in 2014 called Euromania by a young Dutch fella called Peter Vlemmix long before Brexit was even a word.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO4Ayo4mYZg
The bit at 22:00 where the EU attempted to ban porn in all media using a report called "eliminating gender stereotypes" got my attention. When people (well, men) of Europe found out and started emailing the EU to voice their opinions, a filter was added to block any messages containing the word 'porn'.
Shady fuckers.
And thus Brexit! Where they drive on the wrong side of the road LOL!This comment about "driving on the wrong side" is historically and demonstrably incorrect. Throughout the history of human travel on road systems the left side was the default side. They drove chariots on left side down roads during the time of Alexander the Great (ca. 350 BC., Hellenistic period) and this continued as the normal direction of travel right through the Roman period, Medieval, etc. This is logical if you think about it because most people are right handed, sword or weapon on the side to best combat on-coming traffic. It was only as late as the late 18th Century that we see right-hand drive introduced by Napoleon (Sirioja's ancestor) for the specific purpose that his army March opposite to the "Anglais" and then, later in history this new direction of travel became more popular and adapted by many other lands, as it is today.
But looking back historically, those countries that still drive on the left (GB, Australia, Cyprus, Japan, etc.) have simply retained the correct/original direction of travel on left side (like marine traffic, I think), whilst all others are actually driving on the "wrong" side, historically thinking. So let's not fall into the trap that what's most popular is correct, but what is used by the minority is "wrong."
This has been an important message from the History Department. And now back to our regular topic of sex and debauchery.
The EU parliament is elected but the EU commission isn't. The commission makes the rules, the parliament only rubber stamps them. It's literally the opposite of how a democracy should work. Normally politicians make the rules and the bureaucrats enact them. The EU has it the other way around.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/eu-referendum_b_9514608.htmlThis is why political debate has no place on this forum.
This comment about "driving on the wrong side" is historically and demonstrably incorrect. So let's not fall into the trap that what's most popular is correct, but what is used by the minority is "wrong. "My dear lad Ortos. My God it was just a joke! Why must everybody try to take themselves and everything so seriously all of the time? I say "tomayto" but you say "tomahto". As they say, two great nations separated by only a common language! Ha! But we're both fucking the same tutes dude! OK? Now, I like to fuck mine in the center of the bed normally. And you? In the center, on the left, on the right, or at the edge? Or maybe just standing up in the corner! I mean damn! LOLOLOL!
This comment about "driving on the wrong side" is historically and demonstrably incorrect. Throughout the history of human travel on road systems the left side was the default side. They drove chariots on left side down roads during the time of Alexander the Great (ca. 350 BC., Hellenistic period) and this continued as the normal direction of travel right through the Roman period, Medieval, etc. This is logical if you think about it because most people are right handed, sword or weapon on the side to best combat on-coming traffic. It was only as late as the late 18th Century that we see right-hand drive introduced by Napoleon (Sirioja's ancestor) for the specific purpose that his army March opposite to the "Anglais" and then, later in history this new direction of travel became more popular and adapted by many other lands, as it is today.
But looking back historically, those countries that still drive on the left (GB, Australia, Cyprus, Japan, etc.) have simply retained the correct/original direction of travel on left side (like marine traffic, I think), whilst all others are actually driving on the "wrong" side, historically thinking. So let's not fall into the trap that what's most popular is correct, but what is used by the minority is "wrong. ".
This has been an important message from the History Department. And now back to our regular topic of sex and debauchery.Hysterically funny satire, managing to parody overserious political discussion whilst at the same time providing real historical information, and posture puncturing.
Very dry and wicked wit LOL.
Right. Left.
Right. Wrong.
Perhaps that should help explain things. Its a word game gone far.
MarquisdeSade1
01-06-18, 10:04
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-05/merkel-s-frenemies-give-stage-to-eu-critic-of-her-refugee-policy
MarquisdeSade1
01-07-18, 05:12
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42585208
Horny Harry
01-15-18, 18:27
Perhaps for some, an eyeopening glimpse inside the mind of a radical feminist who is vehemently against an open attitude towards prostitution: https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/413436-international-movement-legalize-prostitution/.
P.S. I wonder which "mega brothel" she went to in Munich.
Perhaps for some, an eyeopening glimpse inside the mind of a radical feminist who is vehemently against an open attitude towards prostitution: https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/413436-international-movement-legalize-prostitution/.
P.S. I wonder which "mega brothel" she went to in Munich.Her problem is that she is wrong. And she labels things how she wants to see it.
But one fundamental societal problem we have today is religion. And religious brainwashed people think prostitution is wrong. Because the religion has told them so.
Perhaps for some, an eyeopening glimpse inside the mind of a radical feminist who is vehemently against an open attitude towards prostitution: https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/413436-international-movement-legalize-prostitution/.
P.S. I wonder which "mega brothel" she went to in Munich.Perhaps what the world needs is a new religion: where sex trade is fundamental. And in a world where religious freedom is sought after, who could make it illegal?
Perhaps for some, an eyeopening glimpse inside the mind of a radical feminist who is vehemently against an open attitude towards prostitution: https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/413436-international-movement-legalize-prostitution/.
P.S. I wonder which "mega brothel" she went to in Munich.The funny thing is that that woman is so ugly, she is like the female version of a disabled. And by her own rhetoric she shouldn't be allowed to have sex. But of course she wouldn't like to hear that. Just as much as the Italian dwarves at Wellcum, or the handicapped people in wheelchair at Oceans wouldn't like to hear it.
And the very fact that she is against prostitution clearly leads back to her ugly looks. And how afraid she is of loosing any hope of a man wanting to have sex with her given the options he would have.
ExpatLover
01-17-18, 03:52
The funny thing is that that woman is so ugly, she is like the female version of a disabled. And by her own rhetoric she shouldn't be allowed to have sex. But of course she wouldn't like to hear that. Just as much as the Italian dwarves at Wellcum, or the handicapped people in wheelchair at Oceans wouldn't like to hear it.
And the very fact that she is against prostitution clearly leads back to her ugly looks. And how afraid she is of loosing any hope of a man wanting to have sex with her given the options he would have.Prostitution has a lot of dark sides and strong negative effects for most of the girls on their mental structure, now always the same story are most of the girls prostitutes because they have those disorders or are they getting them because of the fact ot be a prostitutes. I am always surprised when I meet girls outside the club how they have low energy, how for most of them they have low interest in things except their outlook, how most of them even after many years in the P6 have no driving licence, to accept to work in a club and to be fucked so many times every day I believe that you need to have a special mental structure, money is not all it is öostly a excuse. We should never forget that except that in a club the girls lean nothing, they enter with a level and leave after months or years at the same level, most of us we are adding new knowledges every day.
Horny Harry
01-17-18, 09:54
The funny thing is that that woman is so ugly, she is like the female version of a disabled. And by her own rhetoric she shouldn't be allowed to have sex. But of course she wouldn't like to hear that. Just as much as the Italian dwarves at Wellcum, or the handicapped people in wheelchair at Oceans wouldn't like to hear it.
And the very fact that she is against prostitution clearly leads back to her ugly looks. And how afraid she is of loosing any hope of a man wanting to have sex with her given the options he would have."Women's bodies are mined, for everything. " (27:36 in the video). Oh yeah, it's quite obvious that this woman has some major (psychological?) issues, but the problem is that these extreme left Cultural Marxists ("I'm beyond the left" at 27:34) are given a platform from which they can launch their personal crusades against everything they don't like. She refuses to see that 'there are two sides to each coin' and that there are both positive and negative aspects about prostitution (just like any other job), and with her it's always the male that is at fault. Never once it might occur to her that there are also lots of women who are happy in prostitution, and happy about the (big pile!) of money it provides them every month, happy about being an independent business women in charge of her own body.
The interviewer, Chris Hedges, is absolutely terrible in asking some critical questions, and he even allows her to completely drift off topic and make the link between prostitution and women who are bearing children for other women who are infertile, with her "wombs for rent" comment from 27:35.
What about the men who pick up the garbage for Julie? What about the men repairing her car? What about the men installing her washing machine or moving her furniture? Are they also "abused" by a horrible women in a matriarchal society? "Male muscles for rent?" or "Male engineering for rent?" It's obviously okay for Julie if men do the hard labour and the dirty work in a society, but when a women voluntarily sells her pussy then she portrays every women as a sex slave and every customer as the devil.
It's also very typical of left wing fascists to have very little tolerance for anyone who disagrees with them. At 27:33 she says: "I'm beyond the left" when she vehemently attacks her left wing critics for not being 'left enough.'
It's typical for this "snowflake" and "millennial" mentality: they refuse to accept that there are things you personally don't like about society, which leads to censorship, social engineering and totalitarianism.
Anyway, as I said many times before, it's very sad that Cultural Marxists like this are in the driving seat regarding the debate about prostitution, and are allowed to use a few 'one-off' examples to paint an entire part of society with tar, and it's time people here on this board are waking up to see what we're up against.
I see no link to cultural marxism myself. Actually, some of the cultural marxist movements are trying to legalize prostitution worldwide. The idea that it has anything to do with cultural marxism just comes from how people with agendas like to hijack ideas. Happens all the time. These are two totally different subjects.
MarquisdeSade1
01-18-18, 17:16
"Women's bodies are mined, for everything. " (27:36 in the video). Oh yeah, it's quite obvious that this woman has some major (psychological?) issues, but the problem is that these extreme left Cultural Marxists ("I'm beyond the left" at 27:34) are given a platform from which they can launch their personal crusades against everything they don't like. She refuses to see that 'there are two sides to each coin' and that there are both positive and negative aspects about prostitution (just like any other job), and with her it's always the male that is at fault. Never once it might occur to her that there are also lots of women who are happy in prostitution, and happy about the (big pile!) of money it provides them every month, happy about being an independent business women in charge of her own body.
The interviewer, Chris Hedges, is absolutely terrible in asking some critical questions, and he even allows her to completely drift off topic and make the link between prostitution and women who are bearing children for other women who are infertile, with her "wombs for rent" comment from 27:35..Nicely stated Mr Harry!
In one thread there has been a lot of worry that a control visit by authorities was a reflection of the new law.
Control visits are usually not reported here, so maybe we get it out of proportion when one is reported. One other club had a control recently and it appears (so far as can be ascertained) that it was nothing to do with the new laws. Somebody had made malicious reports to the Police about certain illegal activities (ones illegal prior to 1. 7. 17) and this resulted in a control.
More anecdotes. I have seen my first hurenpass. An innocuous piece of paper, which in its flimsy cheap production has, for me chilling echoes, speaking of a low value assigned to the holders. Subjective.
More obviously to the point, I was told that the authorities had called girls who were absent from a club. That is, calling their telephone numbers while they were in Romania. If true, this is really unpleasant for the girls if they are home with family.
More anecdotes. I have seen my first hurenpass. An innocuous piece of paper, which in its flimsy cheap production has, for me chilling echoes, speaking of a low value assigned to the holders. Subjective.
More obviously to the point, I was told that the authorities had called girls who were absent from a club. That is, calling their telephone numbers while they were in Romania. If true, this is really unpleasant for the girls if they are home with family.The result might just be that the girls stop answering numbers coming from Germany. Touche for all the Germans.
So when they call Romania do they speak in Romanian over the phone or German?
More anecdotes. I have seen my first hurenpass. An innocuous piece of paper, which in its flimsy cheap production has, for me chilling echoes, speaking of a low value assigned to the holders. Subjective.
More obviously to the point, I was told that the authorities had called girls who were absent from a club. That is, calling their telephone numbers while they were in Romania. If true, this is really unpleasant for the girls if they are home with family.
Horny Harry
01-20-18, 13:17
More anecdotes. I have seen my first hurenpass. An innocuous piece of paper, which in its flimsy cheap production has, for me chilling echoes, speaking of a low value assigned to the holders. Subjective.
More obviously to the point, I was told that the authorities had called girls who were absent from a club. That is, calling their telephone numbers while they were in Romania. If true, this is really unpleasant for the girls if they are home with family.My prediction of the effect and purpose of the new law has not changed, but things will not change overnight because that will cause a major shock and wake up the sheeple. What typically happens is something called the "Salami Tactic," where every time they slice away a little bit more of your freedom.
Calling these girls in Romania on their telephones is nothing short of mobbing because in a normal free and transparent society everything should be done in writing. If the police or any other authority have any official questions, they should write these girls and invite them to a police station or government bureau where they can answer questions in the presence of their lawyer, but what were you expecting? Let's face it: 'Germans are going to german. ' and history has shown that Germans always gravitate towards totalitarianism, oppression and a police state. They even have a saying and a National Motto for it: "Vertrauen ist gut, Kontrolle ist besser" and "Befehl ist Befehl. " (translation: "Trust is good, to check is better" and "orders are orders".
The real problem, and the reason why things always spin out of control in Germany, is: who will check (I. E. Kontrolieren) the government?
I guess nobody will, because Germany's dark past (World War 1, World War 2, the East German police state, and now the latest censorship laws under Merkel called Netzwerkdurchsetzungsgesetz / NetzDG) has repeatedly shown that nobody ("orders are orders," remember?) challenges the government. History has repeatedly shown that they all run after The Kaiser, The Fuehrer, The Comrades from the Politburo, and now Merkel, with their eyes wide shut and with a blind trust that the government's latest social and economic engineering pipe dreams are 'for the good of the people' and that anybody who challenges the government is a Traitor, a Jew-Friend or a Bolshevik, a Class-Enemy or counter-revolutionary, or in now in 2018 thanks to Merkel's NetzDG, a person who engages in "hate speech."
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Rogue Nation
01-20-18, 21:39
Calling these girls in Romania on their telephones is nothing short of mobbing.It helps not to believe everything the girls talk about.
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