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OTH's post insightfully sheds light on the realities of life in monger-land. Being at a kind of crossroad, I find myself pondering how far I want to go down that road, and indeed, what my real alternatives are.
A couple questions, if I may:
Yes, but is it any sadder than my countrymen back in the U.S. who are busy creating broken families, or enduring unhappy marriages, or spending many years alone and/or many evenings watching Internet porn or getting drunk or stoned? I might venture to guess that these are the majority of American men. If we could only solve the problem of the food choices available, I might prefer to be that pathetic middle-aged Farang.
OK. About how much money is that? Maybe I'm there already (not sure).
Your guess about the majority of middle aged american men is way off base, being a middle aged man in america is still a good bet compared to any 3rd world country.
Orlando -if you are 'Murcan you will undoubtedly have to renew your PASSPORT sometime. Thats when they will find you.
Old Thai Hand
06-03-06, 10:30
OK. About how much money is that? Maybe I'm there already (not sure).
It depends on where you want to live, what kind of life-style you want to maintain and how old you are.
If you are content to live up-country in Khorat or some other smaller city, and have a modest life-style (for a Farang), you could survive well-enough on 20,000-25,000 baht per month...maybe less. It depends on what you do.
In Bangkok, that would shoot up to 40,000 baht-50,000/month.
Basically, if you want to be a middle-class Farang in a developing country like Thailand and live in Bangkok, have a minimum 600,000 baht a year for every year you plan to be here. Since inflation is rampant at the moment, expect that to increase dramatically over the next few years. As an indicator, when I arrived 9 1/2 years ago, gold was 4,000 baht/baht weight. It's now 12,000 baht. Gasoline was 8 baht/litre. It's now 30. Barfines on soi Cowboy were 200-300 and LT was 600-1000 depending on the girl. You could get girls out of the Thermae LT for 500, very easily. A beer at Nana was about 60 baht. Lady drinks were 35. The only thing that hasn't changed much is cost of housing because there's a glut.
If you're going to be doing some extensive and sustained mongering, with the prices in that department going through the roof, be prepared to see your money pass through your hands like water.
Your guess about the majority of middle aged american men is way off base, being a middle aged man in america is still a good bet compared to any 3rd world country.
OK, maybe I was off because I circulated in the wrong social circles during my adult life in America. It sure seemed to me that half or more men that I knew were of the types I described. If the reality is that the majority of American men are living happy lives with a good relationship, that's great news. More power to them.
But is it true?
Retired Army
06-04-06, 02:15
What was the exchange rate 9 1/2 years ago? If I remember correctly the Baht was pegged to the Dollar at a fixed rate of 25 to 1. With the current rate of 38-40 that would account for some of the price increase.
Old Thai Hand
06-04-06, 04:04
What was the exchange rate 9 1/2 years ago? If I remember correctly the Baht was pegged to the Dollar at a fixed rate of 25 to 1. With the current rate of 38-40 that would account for some of the price increase.
Correct. But the economic crisis hit in July of 1997 and the baht shot up during the roller coaster ride over the next few months to a high of 57/dollar at one point.
Retired Army
06-04-06, 20:34
Correct. But the economic crisis hit in July of 1997 and the baht shot up during the roller coaster ride over the next few months to a high of 57/dollar at one point.
And I remember it well. l Those were the days as long as you weren't buying imported goods.
PosterLion
07-01-06, 17:05
Possibly the number one thing to understand when trying to understand Thai culture is Thai food. This lesson will supply the novice with enough information to prepare a home-cooked meal, Thai style! So without further adieu, let’s start cooking!
The typical Thai meal requires four main ingredients: raw food, water, power (electricity will be used for this lesson), and a rice cooker.
RICE AND THE RICE COOKER
The first thing to understand about Thai culture is rice. Thai people eat rice on a daily basis and you will never understand Thai people if you don’t understand rice.
I don’t know a thing about rice farming so this article will be limited to what you do with the finished product, which is purchased at the local market. I purchase my rice at the BIG C superstore, which is the normal way for buying rice if you live in central Bangkok.
Making rice is easy. Pour a cup of rice in your rice cooker (see photo below), add water, put the lid on the rice cooker, then turn it on. Be careful that you flip the toggle switch to cook and not to warm. Your rice will not cook properly unless the switch is set to the cook position.
About the water: in Bangkok it’s okay to use tap water because you’re going to boil it anyway. Fill the rice cooker with water until the water level is the same depth as the length from the tip of your forefinger to the first knuckle, no more no less. It helps if you actually stick your finger inside the cooker while you are pouring the water. Let the rice cook until you no longer see any steam coming out from under the cooker’s lid or top.
Now that you know how to cook rice, we’ll move on to something a little more exotic:
HOT POT SOUP or SUKI
Ingredients:
49.00 pork chicken suki set
16.75 white shrimp 20 cnt
29.00 oyster meat pack 100 cnt
32.50 beef shank
50.00 suki sauce 2 count
12.00 spring onion
10.00 morning glory
=====
199.25
All of the above ingredients were purchased at BIG C for 199 Baht and 25 Satang (excluding tax).
This is a whopping big huge amount of food that will easily feed four people and most likely six (See photo below). Heck! The 49 Baht pork chicken suki set would feed four people well enough. :)
Fill rice cooker 2/3 full with water. Open the pork/chicken suki set and add the spice packet to the water in the rice cooker and set it to boil.
Clean and chop/slice the vegetables and the beef and the pork while waiting for the water to boil. It sure beats starring at your rice cooker wishing that the water was boiling already.
After the water is boiling add all the vegetables and as much meat as you want for the first course. Next, crack the egg that is included in the Suki set and add it to the rice cooker. After about five minutes you will have a delicious meal on your hands. Hope you are hungry! :)
Oh yes! Don’t forget to add some of the suki sauce to your bowl of suki: DELICIOUS!
ANOTHER WORD ABOUT WATER:
If you are living a bit on the LoSo side of life, your apartment will not have running water. That’s why you’ll need an ice cooler (see photo). Simply buy a bag of ice and pour it into the ice cooler and you’ve got water for a day. Hint: It’s not impolite to use a straw and drink directly from the cooler.
I intentionally left out the price of the rice cooker and the ice cooler because I’ve no idea how much they cost. I obtained mine by digging through the trash cans at my apartment complex. Hey! What can I say? I’ve got survival skills and so do most Thais. :)
Enjoy your Thai lifestyle,
poster . . .
PosterLion,
ROFLMAO :) .
Giotto
Poster, please don't tell me that you still don't know how to cook rice in a rice cooker. Perhaps if you had read the instructions … Oops! Sorry. Forgot you got a used one from the trash dumpster.
To 1 part rice add 2 part water. That's it, man.
I like your Suki technique, though. I am off now to clean my cooker.:)
Possibly the number one thing to understand when trying to understand Thai culture is Thai food.
They do say that the way to a woman's heart is through her stomach. :)
Good post, BTW...
Pour a cup of rice in your rice cooker (see photo below), add water, put the lid on the rice cooker, then turn it on. Be careful that you flip the toggle switch to cook and not to warm. Your rice will not cook properly unless the switch is set to the cook position.
Your rice cooker is a minority. There are two major types in use: the metal ones and plastic ones. The metal ones (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=47452) are similar to yours except the toggle switch. There is only one: you push down once to turn it on and start the cooking process. Once the rice is cooked, the switch will pop up, but the light within it stays on, to indicate that it is keeping the rice warm. Actually, the unit is in the 'warm' mode once plugged in and has a rice pot inside, so if you are done with cooking, please remember to remove the rice container or unplug it entirely. Otherwise, you'd burn the bottom of the pot and the hot plate. The carbon build-up is prevent proper heat transfer later. :(
The other kind of rice cooker/warmer (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=47453), the modern version, has plastic shell/casing, and the rice pot is made out of a lighter metal and coated with non-stick material inside. Same concept with the toggle switch for operations. The container also has markings inside for level of water (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=47455) to use based on the number of cups of rice. These units have a steam vent, to prevent overpressure and regulate to achieve a precise cooking environment, leading to properly and evenly cooked rice grains. They also allow you to steam other food. Oh, IMHO, the biggest advantage over the metal ones is that these plastic ones will keep steam rice longer in the container at the right piping-hot temperature. Over a day. For longer period, add water, fluff the rice around a bit, close the lid, let the temperature build up, and wait for the steam to rehydrate the grains. They also have ones with fuzzy logic (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=47456). :p
BTW, you don't really need an electric rice cooker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_cooker) to cook rice. You can use a deep saucepan or pot over the stove (the old-fashioned method, which is more complicated and requires more attention). Since you dump out the boiled water half-way thru, you would also need more water than the electric version, and it takes longer, but when you have nothing else but an open flame and a tin can, the traditional way will come in handy. ;)
Seeko
gee - what's next - a picture of a push button raw rice dispenser? ROFLMAO
What ever happened to the "first knuckle for water and second knuckle for rice" method?
(3 rice - 2 water more or less) or was that first knuckle rice and second knuckle water? 3 water 2 rice since I eat so litle rice...might be what it comes out so sticky...
Hmmm I would like to be knuckle deep...
Poster is being DOMESTICATED??
PosterLion
07-03-06, 18:40
So you’ve made the move from your home country and now you’re living in Thailand, but there is a problem, you miss your beloved farang food. Sometimes you just gotta have it, but it’s so damn expensive! Am I right?
The truth is not what you think. It’s actually cheaper to make farang food in Thailand than it is to make Thai food in Thailand. It you don’t believe me, just read on. :)
The typical farang meal requires four main ingredients: raw food, water, power (electricity will be used for this lesson), and a rice cooker.
SWEET BASIL AND GARLIC SPAGHETTI
Ingredients:
05.00 - Fresh Basil
05.00 - Garlic
40.00 - Pesto Spaghetti Sauce
35.00 - Dry Spaghetti
37.00 - Hamburger (Grade A)
05.00 - Salt
18.00 - Cooking oil
======
145.00
All of the above ingredients were purchased at BIG C for 145 Baht (excluding tax). This is a whopping big huge amount of food that will easily feed four people and most likely six.
Fill rice cooker 2/3 full with water, add a teaspoon or two of salt set it to boil.
Clean and chop the garlic and Basil while waiting for the water to boil. It sure beats starring at your rice cooker wishing that the water was boiling already.
After the water is boiling add a tablespoon of oil and the amount of spaghetti you wish to devour. Me and my girlfriend just add the whole package and put what we don’t eat in the refrigerator for later.
After about ten minutes the spaghetti should be done. Strain the spaghetti into whatever container is available and set it aside. Now it’s time to cook the meat and the sauce.
Put the aluminum bowl back in the rice cooker and add the hamburger and the garlic and a little oil. Turn on the cooker and brown the hamburger to your preferred level of doneness then add the spaghetti sauce and simmer until done. Beware . . . You’re neighbors may come a knocking because your room is going to smell like an Italian eatery by the time you are finished. So be prepared and have some extra dishes ready just in case!
Now it’s time to put it all together. Break out some nice plates and put the cooked spaghetti on them. Next ladle that beautiful smelling sauce on top and garish with fresh Basil.
PRESTO!
You’re eating your beloved farang food and it’s all the better because it’s less expensive than the hot pot you made the night before (see photo below). :)
This article might well have been titled FARANG CULTURAL LESSON 1, but it was my Thai girlfriend that showed me how to prepare this dish. WOW! She is THE shit, and much much more. :)
Enjoy your Farang lifestyle,
poster . . .
MISS farang food? HUH? Ahahn thai tastes better and is better for you.
sa-pah-get-ti? FAH-GET-ABOUT-IT-TI
comrades -
last year i lived in brasil (but did my us work via high speed net connection) and i learned that when renting an apartment the first question one must always ask is
1) how quickly can i get an internet connection and
2) is a good cable type connection or some bad dsl gvmt telco?
so i will soon leave to live every other month in thailand but i need to get rolling with an internet connection in a house or apmt i'd rent.
also i imagine that i'd need a bank account there for basic bills like utilities/etc so i hope it's not too hard to open a bk account in thailand... (in brasil it was nuts but finally i got it done legit...)
yes, i know in pattaya or bangkok it's possible to get places ready to roll with 'net connections but i seek a nicer locale - i loved the andaman sea (but phuket was too touristy and rip-off oriented...), samui has too many falangs and the rampant building of villas is rapidly changing the place...
so the question is this - how quickly can one get a 'net connection typically in mid sized cities like pg nga, hua hin, chiang rai, nong khai, etc...?
it's kind of funny but net connectivity drives where i'll be renting a place...
one alternative is to rent a place in, say, jomtiem (close to action but could still do work....) for just one month and then time permitting find a nicer place/city for longer term...
anyways, your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
rendorseg
never found cable internet in Thailand - it's all DSL (Pattaya and other smaller cities anyway)
PosterLion
07-03-06, 18:53
I wouldn't go that far___ yet! :)
But it is amazing to me that there is so much more to do in this life than smoking yaba all day. Seven weeks and two days on the straighter side of life has done this poster good.
humble bow
poster . . .
P.S. It was not my idea to eat spaghetti, it was my girlfriend's. Gee . . . Maybe I am getting domesticated!!!
PosterLion,
where the hell did you find those plates? Is that modern art?
Giotto
SWEET BASIL AND GARLIC SPAGHETTI
Ingredients:
05.00 - Fresh Basil
05.00 - Garlic
40.00 - Pesto Spaghetti Sauce
35.00 - Dry Spaghetti
37.00 - Hamburger (Grade A)
05.00 - Salt
18.00 - Cooking oil
======
145.00
Well, not quite like what they serve at Angelini's, but what the heck...
PosterLion
07-03-06, 19:01
I got the plates at BIG C. They sell everything a person could possibly need, except yaba. Thank God! :)
Retired Army
07-04-06, 10:14
comrades -
last year i lived in brasil (but did my us work via high speed net connection) and i learned that when renting an apartment the first question one must always ask is
1) how quickly can i get an internet connection and
2) is a good cable type connection or some bad dsl gvmt telco?
so i will soon leave to live every other month in thailand but i need to get rolling with an internet connection in a house or apmt i'd rent.
also i imagine that i'd need a bank account there for basic bills like utilities/etc so i hope it's not too hard to open a bk account in thailand... (in brasil it was nuts but finally i got it done legit...)
yes, i know in pattaya or bangkok it's possible to get places ready to roll with 'net connections but i seek a nicer locale - i loved the andaman sea (but phuket was too touristy and rip-off oriented...), samui has too many falangs and the rampant building of villas is rapidly changing the place...
so the question is this - how quickly can one get a 'net connection typically in mid sized cities like pg nga, hua hin, chiang rai, nong khai, etc...?
it's kind of funny but net connectivity drives where i'll be renting a place...
one alternative is to rent a place in, say, jomtiem (close to action but could still do work....) for just one month and then time permitting find a nicer place/city for longer term...
anyways, your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
rendorseg
before you can open any utility, phone or internet account you must have a thai residence visa. i think the same is true for thai bank accounts. i don't know because i have never had the need for one. most apartments take care of this for you by having the utility account in their name and then you pay them directly.
true is the internet provider in bangkok and probably most of thailand as well. the speeds within thailand are fast, but suffer when you try to access sites out of the country. other than that their service is pretty good. i've had them for two years now and had no complaints. if i had a problem it was usually resolved within 24 hours. hook-up was within a reasonable time, less than a week, probably less. no cable internet, that went out three or four years ago. i would say net connections in some of the places you mention, with the exception of pattaya, is probably going to be limited to dial-up.
Retired Army
07-04-06, 10:24
Try my method,
09:00 I have my girlfriend tell my maid what I want for dinner.
17:00 Dinner is waiting for me.
17:30 I tell my maid "aloy mak," give her a big smile and head out to Cheap
Charlies for the first beer of the night.
Cost 4,000 THB per month plus groceries. She buys everything on the local economy which saves me quite a bit over Tops or Foodland. Plus, all my laundry is done and the house cleaned.
Cost 4,000 THB per month plus groceries. She buys everything on the local economy which saves me quite a bit over Tops or Foodland. Plus, all my laundry is done and the house cleaned.
You know, it's coming ;), so here are the questions:
How do one hire a decent, honest, hard-working maid like that in LOS?
And, how do I export one to South Korea? Or, USA?
Hey, I've got two extra empty rooms in my apartment here. :D
Seeko
Retired Army
07-04-06, 17:23
You know, it's coming ;), so here are the questions:
How do one hire a decent, honest, hard-working maid like that in LOS?
And, how do I export one to South Korea? Or, USA?
Hey, I've got two extra empty rooms in my apartment here. :D
Seeko
I am suprised that you haven't been approached by some of the local mae baans offering their services. My two were recommended to me by other people who were leaving and wanted to find new jobs for thier maids. They came highly recommended and everything worked out beautifully. One was in her late 40's and the other in her late 50's. Honest and hardworking and we had great working relationships. If you want a great source for finding a maid PM me.
Exporting to U.S.A. more trouble than it's worth. I know several who went to South Korea. My first maid was one.
Having a live in maid is a little different and might cramp your style. What ever you do, don't get a young one and think about fucking her.
thanks for that insight ra
well i quite suspect that places like chiang mai have conections just as good as bkk, but i think i may just set up base in jomtien or phuket for a month and then see what i find on the land...
about a residence visa... well i'm not so sure about that... an acquaintance of mine has lived in thailand maybe 20 yrs but is still here on a tourist visa - he like me is in and out every month on bus. travel... well, thx for the insight on true...
take care, rendorseg
before you can open any utility, phone or internet account you must have a thai residence visa. i think the same is true for thai bank accounts. i don't know because i have never had the need for one. most apartments take care of this for you by having the utility account in their name and then you pay them directly.
true is the internet provider in bangkok and probably most of thailand as well. the speeds within thailand are fast, but suffer when you try to access sites out of the country. other than that their service is pretty good. i've had them for two years now and had no complaints. if i had a problem it was usually resolved within 24 hours. hook-up was within a reasonable time, less than a week, probably less. no cable internet, that went out three or four years ago. i would say net connections in some of the places you mention, with the exception of pattaya, is probably going to be limited to dial-up.
PosterLion
07-04-06, 20:01
Try my method.
Perhaps I shall. It sounds much less complicated, but on the other hand . . . do you understand rice?
If not, perhaps you should try mine. :)
poster . . .
I am suprised that you haven't been approached by some of the local mae baans offering their services.
No, that wouldn't work, since I have only visited Thailand for short vacations. I wil have to consider that option if and when I retire there.
Having a live in maid is a little different and might cramp your style. What ever you do, don't get a young one and think about fucking her.
Yeah, you're right. On second thought, at this stage in my life and in my current location, a live-in maid isn't going to work. Besides lifestyle issues, I'd have to deal with immigration process and possibility of ran-aways. :(
Of course, once I "settle" down (as you and PosterLion have done ;)), I will PM you for contact info. Thanks in advance...
Seeko
PosterLion
07-05-06, 19:31
Okay Okay,
I think these rice cooker posts are probably wearing a bit thin at this point, but my new GF keeps performing amazing tasks with this marvelous contraption. Today she fried hamburgers in it! hahahaha!
Amazing Thais, Amazing Thailand.
poster . . .
Retired Army
07-06-06, 12:49
Perhaps I shall. It sounds much less complicated, but on the other hand . . . do you understand rice?
If not, perhaps you should try mine. :)
poster . . .
I understand the Thai "thing" about rice. However, to me, it's just another food the doctor recommends I stay away from.
JuiceSpike
07-07-06, 16:33
Retired Army,
What's wrong with eating rice and why did your doctor tell you to stay away from it?
juices
Retired Army
07-08-06, 07:34
Retired Army,
What's wrong with eating rice and why did your doctor tell you to stay away from it?
juices
It's not rice in general; it's white rice. Highly glycemic (sp?) which causes a spike in blood sugar. Anyone concerned about diabetes, and that should be anyone who is overweight or over 50, should avoid white rice. I know that is damn near impossible in Thailand. Substitute whole grain brown rice when possible. It doesn't look as good but tastes fine.
Anyone concerned about diabetes, and that should be anyone who is overweight or over 50, should avoid white rice. I know that is damn near impossible in Thailand.
Diabetic people should avoid Thailand period. There's sugar in every dish.
Or perhaps that's why all the fat folk eat steak and other Western stuff...
Oh - it CAN be avoided. Besides, just dern bai mak (walk a lot) -I do maybe 8km.day or so - keeps it down (no not THAT)
Mai ow waan krup
Diabetic people should avoid Thailand period. There's sugar in every dish.
..
When I was in Thailand for 2 months, I lost about 15 lbs. I needed to lose the weight but wasnt trying. I walked a lot and ate less because I didnt have any food in my hotel and only ate at meal time, 3 times a day.
Diabetic people should avoid Thailand period. There's sugar in every dish.
Or perhaps that's why all the fat folk eat steak and other Western stuff...
I wonder where the Thai diabetics go? And not all diabetics are fat. There are plenty of thin ones with the same problem.
Speed of Light
07-09-06, 01:34
I wonder where the Thai diabetics go? And not all diabetics are fat. There are plenty of thin ones with the same problem.I doubt diabetes is a big problem in Asia, where obesity and unhealthy diet are pretty uncommon compared to western world, USA in particular. They don't spent their spare time drinking Coke and stuffing fat and sugar down their throat, like too many Americans do.
And if they did, I doubt Thailand would be as popular mongering destination as it is now.
Retired Army
07-09-06, 06:25
i doubt diabetes is a big problem in asia, where obesity and unhealthy diet are pretty uncommon compared to western world, usa in particular. they don't spent their spare time drinking coke and stuffing fat and sugar down their throat, like too many americans do.
and if they did, i doubt thailand would be as popular mongering destination as it is now.
don't fool yourself, diabetes is a problem in asia and getting bigger. especially as they adopt a more western life style and diet. genetics also plays a big part. some people are predisposed and others arent. one hundred years ago in the west diabetes was almost unheard of. then modern living kicked in and we stopped eating fresh vegetables, added meat and removed the nutriants from our foods by over processing and adding salt and sugar to improve the shitty taste.
Member #3409
07-09-06, 07:01
i doubt diabetes is a big problem in asia, where obesity and unhealthy diet are pretty uncommon compared to western world, usa in particular. they don't spent their spare time drinking coke and stuffing fat and sugar down their throat, like too many americans do.
and if they did, i doubt thailand would be as popular mongering destination as it is now.
unfortunatly it will become a problem in the future. asia is getting richer, the people getting richer and when they are richer they eat more and they eat more of a bad type of food. travelling around asia you already see that people in say bangkok are getting fatter then say those up country or in other countries like vietnam and laos to name just a few. also look at the kids in bangkok walking down the street, many are very fat indeed.
sure it would seem that asian's have less of a disposition to getting fatter compared to europeans but it is happening right before our eyes. with people getting fatter they will start to develop things like diabetes. the other countries will follow once people start making more.
There are of course two types of diabetics:
-Fat folk, who brought it onto themselves by not controlling their food intake. Don't expect the slightest bit of sympathy from me.
-The sorry folk who were born with a faulty gene who will feel the bad effect sooner or later and for whom sugar is a no no. Too bad that 'Mai ow waan krup' will not help when eating Thai dishes. The cook will always use some naam taan. It is simply one of the four tastes in every Thai dish. 'Thai food' turns into 'food' without it:(.
Retired Army
07-09-06, 15:51
Diabetes is just one of those thing...
I am not diabetic, but my doctor said stay away from the white rice, refined and processed foods is I want to stay that way. It's a ***** getting old, but it beats the alternative.
Phantomtiger2
07-09-06, 18:23
just dern bai mak (walk a lot) -I do maybe 8km.day or so -
If you are referring to doing all that walking in the heat and humid LOS, then you are indeed more fit than the rest of us. About 1-2 km walk in LOS is about my limit before I wave for a taxi.
PT
Speed of Light
07-10-06, 01:56
Sure it would seem that Asian's have less of a disposition to getting fatter compared to Europeans but it is happening right before our eyes. With people getting fatter they will start to develop things like diabetes. The other countries will follow once people start making more.You are right of course, but it will take a while before Asian countries reach the living standards of the west - if ever. At least it won't happen with the help of OIL.
Before that happens, obesity and health issues associated with it won't be nearly as widespread as in the west, particularly outside the large cities.
Also consider Japan - people there generally prefer traditional diet and don't seem to have big issues with obesity.
i am looking to move to los sometime between september to november. looking at the thailand govt website for visas you can only get a visa for more than 90 days if you are 50 or over but i am only 31. does anyone know a way around this. i am going to be running a few web buisnesses and i am thinking of hiring a few thais to do some of the work for me when i am there. i am looking at making around 2 to 3 thousand a month to start off with and then it should go up. i am looking at renting a place either in bangkok or maybe in pattaya. if i sell most of my things here in the u.s. than i think i can pay for about a years rent. all i should need is a dsl line of highspeed internet and i'll be set for making money while there. any ideas would be helpfull, also some ideas for reliable apartment finders in bkk and pattaya would be appreciated.
PT - I meant it - I usually wind up doing a minimum of 5km / day. If I get too tired, I take a baht bus. Drink electrolyte liberally. 6 liters/day minimum and lots of mixed drinks (better than beer)
Great for weight loss, reducing food intake and bai ap-nam 3X / day (3 showers)
The Traveler
07-10-06, 20:34
i doubt diabetes is a big problem in asia, where obesity and unhealthy diet are pretty uncommon compared to western world, usa in particular. they don't spent their spare time drinking coke and stuffing fat and sugar down their throat, like too many americans do.
and if they did, i doubt thailand would be as popular mongering destination as it is now.
speed of light,
actually it's slowly getting a problem.
just look around you, mcdonalds, burger kings, dunkin donuts, swensen's and so on everywhere around you, at least in the bigger cities. people are drinking coke, fanta, sprite and the like, instead of water. all these things are coming from the west, so it's fancy to consume them.
additionally many young thais are addicted to computers just like other people around the world. so instead of being active and burning calories, they sit at home in front of the screen and gain weight.
about twenty years ago you almost never saw any fat or overweight young thai, now they can be seen everywhere. sure, the ratio of fat people is still smaller than in the west, but it's increasing.
JuiceSpike
07-11-06, 02:12
Bacwy1,
Why do you want to move to Thailand? To fuck in between projects? Do you speak Thai? What is your real plan for moving there?
If you don't have a plan then take 3 months off and go there until you get it out of your system then decide if you really want to move there.
juices
Retired Army
07-11-06, 06:20
I think Bacway needs a course in Thai reality. What's the best way to end up a millionaire in Thailand? Start with two.
I have been to Thailand a few times allready. I feel that it is better than living in California. The people are a lot better and also there is more fun to be had in Thailand than in California. The cost of living is maniscual compared to what it costs to live here. I pay $700 for a room in the bay area where as I can pay $250 to $400 for an apartment in Thailand. As far as becoming a millionare its not going to happen. The buisnesses Im getting into I can do any where in the world and I dont have to stay here. I wanted to maybe hire a few Thais to do some of my leg work online to free up my time to enjoy my life. I am tired of working my but off here and having nothing to show for it, here you work 40 to 60 hours a week and you are just getting by check to check. I am looking at making $2000 to $3000 a month on one project and I figure that is a good life in Thailand where as here that is poverty. I have thought this over for about six months now and I have decided that it is what I want to do. Cheaper cost of living, not needing a car and a chance to enjoy your day versus slaving away just to make rent and hope that you can afford to go to a movie once a month. Hell I pay about $450 a month in gas just to commute back and forth to work.
Member #4611
07-11-06, 07:58
it is already a serious problem.. in this region especially in the indian populations of se asia and likely to get worse...
see
http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/1101021209/story.html
also
http://www.eatlas.idf.org/prevalence/
speed of light,
actually it's slowly getting a problem.
Backward,
So you're 31 and most of your assets amount to one year's rent in Thailand.
Yet, once in Thailand, money comes in in torrents.
Let me guess.
Your friends call you Dombo, right?
Perhaps, after a month, Giotto, if asked nicely, will let you sleep under a pooltable, fool!
Backward,
...
Perhaps, after a month, Giotto, if asked nicely, will let you sleep under a pooltable, fool!Freeler,
LOL. Sorry, too many guys are sleeping there already, completely full, we have a waiting list :) ...
Giotto
Freeler,
LOL. Sorry, too many guys are sleeping there already, completely full, we have a waiting list :) ...
Giotto
Only enough room for me and Island Girl, so get out!
My assets are more than a years rent, not as dumb as you think, lost most everything in a divorce, so I guess not as dumbo as you thought.
JuiceSpike
07-11-06, 22:11
Bacwy1,
It looks like you are ready for a change... Why not just take 3 months off and see if you like Thailand as a place to live and do business. Also, take in consideration that if you think going into business in Thailand is easy you are mistaken.
If you decide to move to Thailand then put together some cash as a fall back to either sustain yourself or to buy a ticket back home. Myabe $20,000USD would be a decent amount to blow in three months becuase you will.
juices
You can concider Buenos Aires as well.
Good luck.
El Greco
The Traveler
07-11-06, 22:43
Bacwy1,
listen to Juice, it's a good advice.
First get to know the place, legal situation and if you would really like to stay there. Spending just a couple of days or weeks for holiday is completly different from living there.
You also complain about the visa, but what about a working permit ? If you got none you shouldn't even think about working there. A friend of mine was caught twice for working without a work permit. Believe me, Thai jails aren't nice.
I managed to get him out of jail twice and finally got a work permit for him too. And guess who black-mailed him ? His own lawyer. He wanted some extra money and made 50/50 with police.
You will be very vulnerable without proper documents and your business partners or employees may be able to cause trouble if you [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) them off.
And what resources do you got ?
Don't expect to be able to start off instantly. You not only got to find an office, qualified employees, buy computers and so on, you also need that dsl line and that can take some time in LOS. 2-3K $$$ aren't much as well. Not only that you got to pay rents, salaries and utilities, expect a minimum of 50.000 baht per month for yourself. Furthermore you will need a lawyer who will take care that all regulations and laws are respected (book keeping, taxes, social).
In short : do your homework first and save a bit more money before moving there.
Retired Army
07-12-06, 07:03
My assets are more than a years rent, not as dumb as you think, lost most everything in a divorce, so I guess not as dumbo as you thought.
Why are divorces so expensive? Because they are worth it.
Retired Army
07-12-06, 07:05
Bacwy1,
It looks like you are ready for a change... Why not just take 3 months off and see if you like Thailand as a place to live and do business. Also, take in consideration that if you think going into business in Thailand is easy you are mistaken.
If you decide to move to Thailand then put together some cash as a fall back to either sustain yourself or to buy a ticket back home. Myabe $20,000USD would be a decent amount to blow in three months becuase you will.
juices
Three months isn't going to do it. Plan on at least a year to get a "feel" for the place.
i don't have to hire any one it is just a thought. i will be working online and i'll be able to do it mostly with automated programs. i might have to do some work for two to three hours a day. i am not just doing a get rich quick thing, i just don't believe in them. i can also work off of a high speed wireless. i am going to keep my bank and how i get paid in america. i plan on keeping $5000 or $6000 in the bank here just in case also. i have a friend that i work with who is from thailand and she said she can help me with finding an apartment but i was also looking at the serviced apartments. i'm also not going to move untill i am making at least $2500 a month on my first project. i am doing something that i have friends making a living off of. i know that it is different than living here, i think the thing that i'll miss the most is the baseball and the football. as far as the living conditions i have lived in the worst conditions i can think of here and i'm pretty adaptable to situations. i also know that i can move if i don't like it. i'm not complaining about the visa problem i was just wondering if there was a way to get the longer one without being 50 or over.
i know that you can get the 90 days and extend it and than leave for a day and than get a new one. i was looking and i saw that you can go to cambodia for around $50 all inclusive round trip. i know that moving is not the cure all but i have thought this over for about six months. the reason that i didn't start my buisness sooner is i wanted to make sure that i was out from under the exwife and she couldnt get to the money i make. yes divorce is expensive and worth it. i plan on having a solid base befor i leave and also bring three laptops with me when i come. one for my buisness, one as a back up and also one for personal. thanks for the info and the ideas.
Retired Army
07-13-06, 04:32
I plan on keeping $5000 or $6000 in the bank here just in case also.
Not without a residence visa. To do anything in this country you need one.
M P Lurker
07-13-06, 06:24
Not without a residence visa. To do anything in this country you need one.Not quite true. There is difficulty opening bank accounts for foreigners. With some banks you have to go to Central Office if no work permit.
You can open an account and get ATM card with Bangkok Bank Ltd at almost any branch, but they won't make Internet Banking available. A mate of mine got an account with another bank with internet banking despite no work visa.
The $5000 to $6000 I ment in my bank here in America. I might actually keep my account with citibank since there is also one in Bangkok and I figure if I open an account in Thailand citibank than it will be easier to transfer money back and forth. Ill keep the bulk of my money in America and transfer what I need when I need it.
B of A has an office in BKK. Every time I visit .....land I withdraw money from
my account, the charge is just 4 bahts for $250. I think it would be the same
with any other American bank with an office in BKK!
Crazy4Thai
07-13-06, 18:57
Glad to see this discussion as I'm planning on getting the retirement visa and one requirement for that is money in a Thai bank. It sounds like a chicken and egg thing :)
Should I continue to assume that I open the account FIRST, then apply for the visa?
Thanks,
C4T
The Traveler
07-13-06, 19:40
Crazy4Thai,
you can put that money into a savings account, which you can open at any bank at any time even with only a tourist visa.
crazy4thai,
you can put that money into a savings account, which you can open at any bank at any time even with only a tourist visa.i stongly discourage anyone from getting a retirement visa. they'll have you by the balls with allthat cash in the local bank. instead get a 1 yr multiple entry visa at your consulate in the home country and do visa runs ar required. many fun trips are organised in phuket, pattaya and bkk by a creative cottage industry. i can be as cheap a 999 thb ($=us$27) with lunch.
keep your money in a third country to have it safe from litigation, disgrunteled ex-wives, greedy offspring ect. singapore komes to mind. hsbc will open an acct in any currency with atm card by fax or mail.
do not buy any real estate or an expensive vehicle/boat in th. somebody will steal/confirep001e/lien it from you with the flimsiest excuse. just as with pussy, renting is cheaper and safer than owning.
good luc and enjoy!
pm me for info on consultation and guide service in thailand and/or germany.
The Traveler
07-14-06, 18:37
i stongly discourage anyone from getting a retirement visa. they'll have you by the balls with allthat cash in the local bank.
fkkguide,
please explain, why should they have anyone at the balls then ?
keep your money in a third country to have it safe from litigation, disgrunteled ex-wives, greedy offspring ect. singapore komes to mind. hsbc will open an acct in any currency with atm card by fax or mail.
do not buy any real estate or an expensive vehicle/boat in th. somebody will steal/confirep001e/lien it from you with the flimsiest excuse. just as with pussy, renting is cheaper and safer than owning.
sorry, but that is complete nonsense.
i owned several properties in los and also still have some money invested in businesses and cash at the bank. and, it's still mine.
pm me for info on consultation and guide service in thailand and/or germany.
if you are really into consultation, you rather should give advice how to secure property in los instead of making such a statement. disseizing property of farangs by the government would result in a real estate crash and for all others who might be after your money - and those can be found around the world - there are laws to protect your property. of course you should be smart and not too overcredulous, but this is valid everywhere.
Traveler1234
07-14-06, 18:43
do not buy any real estate or an expensive vehicle/boat in th. somebody will steal/confirep001e/lien it from you with the flimsiest excuse. just as with pussy, renting is cheaper and safer than owning.
good luc and enjoy!
pm me for info on consultation and guide service in thailand and/or germany.
with all due respect, a foreigner, whether farang, asian origin or whoever, should not be discouraged from purchasing real estate based on your advice (inaccurate i might add).
while i have personally not invested, do have several business associates and friends who are not thai purchase condo units and so far no problems.
i do not portend to be a consultant/expert on this matter but to make a blanket statement like that, and then to end with "pm me for info...." - maybe you should move your post to the 'classified ad' thread? :)
imho
btw, i don't know of any of us owning pussy, unless we're a katoey (oh shit, hope jackson doesn't nail me for this one :( )
Retired Army
07-14-06, 19:01
There is some inaccurate information in the forum about farangs owning property in Thailand. As a farang you can not own land, but you can own property, e.g. a condo. And then again there are certain requirements that must be met even for that. There are ways to own land, but they are complicated and involve lawyers, corporations, Thai shareholders, etc. Much too complicated for this forum.
Traveler1234
07-14-06, 19:13
There is some inaccurate information in the forum about farangs owning property in Thailand. As a farang you can not own land, but you can own property, e.g. a condo. And then again there are certain requirements that must be met even for that. There are ways to own land, but they are complicated and involve lawyers, corporations, Thai shareholders, etc. Much too complicated for this forum.
RA - you're entirely correct.
I did not mean to imply foreigners can purchase legally property (vs. condo).
What I meant to say was we can purchase real estate, albeit through nominee, dummy corporation, etc (again you're right on, too complicated for here). As with any business transaction, one should consult with a professional/expert and not rely on ISG board for this!
By the way, not meant to flame FkkG but i just noticed he signs each post with the same signature ending: "pm for info...blah blah blah"?
Not without a residence visa. To do anything in this country you need one.
While I don't claim to be an expert, I do live in Bangkok, and have inquired about getting a local bank account.
Right next to my apartment building (Silom area) is a branch of Bank of Ayuttahya, and they said I could open a savings account with no problem without a visa of any kind - just my US passport.
For a variety of reasons, I have chosen not do so, and or course, YMMV.
Cheers
-Y
Phantomtiger2
07-14-06, 22:20
Its simple as I've done it in the past. Opening a bank account dont require anything but a legit ID (just like at home). For foreigner, all you need is a passport and of course money for the initial deposit. If no money is at hand, I believe a bank to bank transfer is also available, but this may require a fee.
PT
Hello All,
I am interested, like many here, in living in Thailand. I'd like to experience the country as a resident for a while. I not only enjoy the pussy, but also the culture, people, lifestyle(s) and so on. I have been following the "Living in Thailand" thread for some time and have learned well the old muntra that working for a multi-national is the way to go, versus the almost hopeless chance of getting good work once in-country. I've also heeded the advice about teaching which doesn't seem like in would be a good route for me to take being that I don't want to live on peanuts and don't have the creditials to do otherwise, with teaching that is.
I'd like to know if those of you that are living in Thailand know of multi-nationals who are interested in hiring an American with a background in banking and finance. I have a knack for sales and management, and have modest amount of money saved for any potential move and transplant. I'd love to hear what each of you does for a living to sustain yourselves. Many of you seem to be on top of your game, so I suspect that I'm posing this question to the right crowd.
And, if anyone here gives me information enough where I actually land a decent job in LOS I will personally buy him (or her), a case of Singha and three bar girls. You will of course be obligated to drink the beer with me, but the girls will be all yours. Really though, I'd appreciate any insite guys. As you know, its quite an obstacle course navigating the job seen as a (American) foreigner wanting to live in Thailand.
Thanks,
JRide
Traveler1234
07-15-06, 03:12
Hello All,
I am interested, like many here, in living in Thailand. I'd like to experience the country as a resident for a while. I not only enjoy the pussy, but also the culture, people, lifestyle(s) and so on
I'd like to know if those of you that are living in Thailand know of multi-nationals who are interested in hiring an American with a background in banking and finance.
Thanks,
JRide
I don't have the specific websites but there are a couple that focus on work for expats (expatriates) as well as living abroad, etc.. If you do a google search, you'll find several sites for Asian countries, you can drill down to Thailand.
Also, if you pick up some of the local papers (english that is), there are advertisements - caveat might be work permit issues.
Good luck
Old Thai Hand
07-15-06, 03:53
There are lots of sites. Here's an example.
http://www.escapeartist.com/Thailand/Thailand2.html
However it is not all that easy to get a job in the private sector in Thailand unless you have skills that are needed here and it's a job that a Thai can't do. Most people working for multi-nationals were posted here. Very few are ever hired locally.
Retired Army
07-15-06, 06:56
While I don't claim to be an expert, I do live in Bangkok, and have inquired about getting a local bank account.
Right next to my apartment building (Silom area) is a branch of Bank of Ayuttahya, and they said I could open a savings account with no problem without a visa of any kind - just my US passport.
For a variety of reasons, I have chosen not do so, and or course, YMMV.
Cheers
-Y
I had to rethink this post. Actually, I asked my GF. She said that some banks will let you open a limited account in BKK. Mainly so you can transfer money into the country. Good luck getting it out.
Retired Army
07-15-06, 07:06
Hello All,
I am interested, like many here, in living in Thailand. I'd like to experience the country as a resident for a while. I not only enjoy the pussy, but also the culture, people, lifestyle(s) and so on. I have been following the "Living in Thailand" thread for some time and have learned well the old muntra that working for a multi-national is the way to go, versus the almost hopeless chance of getting good work once in-country. I've also heeded the advice about teaching which doesn't seem like in would be a good route for me to take being that I don't want to live on peanuts and don't have the creditials to do otherwise, with teaching that is.
I'd like to know if those of you that are living in Thailand know of multi-nationals who are interested in hiring an American with a background in banking and finance. I have a knack for sales and management, and have modest amount of money saved for any potential move and transplant. I'd love to hear what each of you does for a living to sustain yourselves. Many of you seem to be on top of your game, so I suspect that I'm posing this question to the right crowd.
Thanks,
JRide
The best way to get a job in Thailand is to get hired in the States for a job over here and then let your company move you. That's what I did, but I had to take a job in Africa first and that sucked. Some people in your situation have gotten into real estate and property management. I don't know how well they do though, seems like a lot of competition. I don't think you can do what you are suggesting on a modest amount of money. That will be gone before you know it. Why don't you take a "leave of absence" for a year and see how you like Thailand before committing to the move. Quitting your job and coming here just for the pussy is a mistake. The food, culture and people are great, but it's one thing visiting here vs. living here.
I can't tell you what I do or whom I work for because it's too high profile and I would like to remain somewhat anonymous.
The Traveler
07-15-06, 19:49
J Ride,
expect to get a Thai salary if you are hired in Thailand. Just like Retired Army has said, it's best to get hired back home and then send abroad to get a decent salary. Furthermore some language skills might be required, depending on your position/job.
The Traveler
07-15-06, 19:53
Its simple as I've done it in the past. Opening a bank account dont require anything but a legit ID (just like at home). For foreigner, all you need is a passport and of course money for the initial deposit. If no money is at hand, I believe a bank to bank transfer is also available, but this may require a fee.
PT
Phantomtiger,
correct, just like I have said before, opening a savings account is easy, all you need is your passport, no special visa required.
The minimum amount on such an account is 100 Baht, that's all you need as an initial deposit.
You can use this account to send money from abroad, transfer money within the country and for cash withdrawals/deposits via ATM.
J,
Expect to get a Thai salary if you are hired in Thailand. It's best to get hired back home and then sent abroad to get a decent salary.Very few ferangs' occupations can be worked in legally in Thailand, maybe in the hotel/tourism industry and education, with many hoops to jump through to get work permits and visa. Check the Thai government's websites (Dept of Labor, Education).
Freelance work with (low) pay under the table can be found though. 300 THB/hr is considered excellent pay (locals make that maybe in a day).
To demonstrate the above point: not even the English language newspapers Nation and BKK Post can hire Anglo journalists full-time legally. They have semi-legal Anglo freelancers as reporters/writers/translators and the editors are Thais. Journalists are not on the 'allowed occupations' list.
Crackdowns and shakedowns happen on an irragular basis: just recently there was such an action to root out illegally working diving guides and instructors in Phuket, as well as Pakistani and Indian touts for local businesses (they speak English, you know). Read the websites of Thai newspapers: Phuket Gazette, BKK Post, Nation, Pattaya and Chiang Mai Mail, Thailand Tip if you don't believe me.
Better let a global corporation hire you overseas, handle the paperwork and pay the fees, fines and bribes to make you legal. Get your pay in hard currency (THB has been suddenly devalued a few times in the past) deposited off-shore.
Better yet: Why not set up some web-based business and operate it from LOS? Seems easier than working and you'll be your own boss.
PM me for info.
Thanks for the info. thus far guys. It all helps, so keep it coming!
JRide
Very few ferangs' occupations can be worked in legally in Thailand...FKKguide,
Not so sure, that I would support this statement.
I know a lot of expats working legally with work permits in all kind of businesses: Hospitality, Schools and Universities of course, but also in Software Development and the Computer Industry, Car Manufacturing, Freight Forwarding, Marketing and Promotion, Car Rentals, Banking, Insurance and Broker Business, Properties, Financial Consultancy, Import- and Export, Pharmaceutical Industry, TV- and Movie Companies, etc. etc. .
The anti-foreigner policy of the actual government is discussed a lot amongst expats here in Thailand. But the main targets of this policy are the visa-runners, foreigners living here without a work permit on a normal tourist visa.
Giotto
Old Thai Hand
07-17-06, 10:48
To demonstrate the above point: not even the English language newspapers Nation and BKK Post can hire Anglo journalists full-time legally. They have semi-legal Anglo freelancers as reporters/writers/translators and the editors are Thais. Journalists are not on the 'allowed occupations' list.
PM me for info.
Sorry, you're dead wrong. You don't know what you are talking about.
Both The Nation and The Bangkok Post hire Farang editors and journalists. Bernard Trink, Roger Beaumont and Roger Crutchley, among others are Farang, are legal and are or were full-time jounrnalists. Trink is more or less retired, but 'Crutch', as he's known and Beaumont are both still writing their weekly columns. Crutch has been here nearly 40 years writing first, like Trink for The Bangkok World, which became The Bangkok Post in the 70s. Most of the sub-editors at both newspapers are Farang.
Well-known local Farang celeb, Andrew Biggs worked at The Nation when he first arrived from Australia back in the mid-90s. He did 'English on the Bus' for the MicroBus Company and then moved onto Channel 3-Bec Tero where he was both a producer and presenter. He is currently in a number of TV commercials on Thai TV and has his own production company and English Language Program. Most of the DJs on 'Virgin Smooth' Radio are Farang as are the news editors and news readers. There are of course several Farang who are regularly on Thai TV and in Thai movies.
Giotto is absolutely correct. There are lots of Farang in a variety of industries and professions. For example, one of the biggest and oldest law firms here is Farang: Tilleke and Gibbons invited here in the late 19th century by King
Rama V. I have a couple of friends who work there.
As well, let's not forget Mike Heineke who first had the Pizza Hut franchise until Pizza Hut stupidly thought they could run it better, themselves, and took it away from him. So, he started Pizza Company, which has far out-paced Pizza Hut to become the biggest pizza business in Thailand.
There are several Farang corporate training companies that were started here and it is such big business, at the moment that several of the universities are getting into it as well and hiring Farang trainers for various Thai and multinational companies.
I even know several Farang who work for the Thai Royal Family.
There is virtually no sector, public or private closed to Farang in this country with the exception, of course of the government and the Military.
Freelance Pay Rates:
You mention 300 baht/hour. For what? Even English teachers are making more than that now in many schools. Outside of my teaching I've done a lot of freelance work (I won't say in what field) for which I was never paid less than 1,000/hour. I usually get 1,500-2,000/hour.
The Thai govenment has several Farang acting as consultants in various capacities. I have a friend who was on a 3-year contract with them consulting on international trade issues for which he was paid 350,000/month.
It sounds to me like there is alot of opportunity available if one is clever enough to locate it. In otherwords, things aren't hopeless. Thanks Old Hand. You are well plugged in and I think you've got the temperature of the Farang work seen in-country.
JRide
Crazy4Thai
07-18-06, 07:24
I had to rethink this post. Actually, I asked my GF. She said that some banks will let you open a limited account in BKK. Mainly so you can transfer money into the country. Good luck getting it out.
What is that based on RA?
I've heard conflicting opinions on this. It's my money, why couldn't I get it out or transfer it somewhere? I have an aquaintance who has had a business in Thailand for 25 years. 130 employees manufacturing. I asked him to recommmend a Thai bank and he said Kasikorn is what he likes.
As for Retirement Visa, my understanding is the money must be there when getting the visa, and then again when renewing a year later. In between those 2 dates, it can be elsewhere.
regards,
C4T
Hi guys,
I'm finally making some progress toward my goal of living in Thailand. I've found a business venture that looks very promising. It has nothing to do with bars, gogos, clubs, restaurants or the like, but it is within the tourism industry. I definately appreciate all you guys giving me advice.
And, speaking of, if any of you know where I can find a good English speaking mechanic in Pattaya who might be willing to do some freelance work on a regular basis let me know. I'm also in need of a English speaking business lawyer. I'm sure I could find one myself, but I always prefer recommendations.
See you guys soon!
JRide
Retired Army
07-19-06, 07:45
What is that based on RA?
I've heard conflicting opinions on this. It's my money, why couldn't I get it out or transfer it somewhere? I have an aquaintance who has had a business in Thailand for 25 years. 130 employees manufacturing. I asked him to recommmend a Thai bank and he said Kasikorn is what he likes.
As for Retirement Visa, my understanding is the money must be there when getting the visa, and then again when renewing a year later. In between those 2 dates, it can be elsewhere.
regards,
C4T
Retirement visas are different that getting a residence visa.
As for getting your money out, what I mean is the Government/bank throws so many requirements at you that it is just more trouble than it is worth. Try getting deposits back from UBC or utility companies. I have lived here for over five years and I don't have a Thai bank account, although my GF does and I use hers when necessary. I use my American Bank, local ATMS and the internet to handle all my financial needs. But. being retired American military, I also have access to the United States Postal System through the Embassy or JUSMAG.
Member #3409
07-19-06, 09:56
Was just speaking with one of my BKK contacts and she told me it is a holiday this weekend and the bars will be closed (and she is heading out of town so cannot catch up). Anyone confirm if this is true and on this holday how many bars/go go's will be closed.
Was just speaking with one of my BKK contacts and she told me it is a holiday this weekend and the bars will be closed (and she is heading out of town so cannot catch up). Anyone confirm if this is true and on this holday how many bars/go go's will be closed.Jc373,
there is a local election in Bangkok. The bars will not sell alcohol, but normally they should be open.
Giotto
Retired Army
07-19-06, 12:51
Jc373,
there is a local election in Bangkok. The bars will not sell alcohol, but normally they should be open.
Giotto
Isn't this just until the polls close? After that they can sell alcohol. And what about the 7/11s. Won't they also sell?
Isn't this just until the polls close? After that they can sell alcohol. And what about the 7/11s. Won't they also sell?Retired Army,
We still don't have the final instructions from our friends in brown. Usually alcohol will not be sold from Saturday 6 pm to Sunday 6 pm.
But during the last elections from April 2nd we got the order not to sell alcohol until Sunday midnight! You never know...
The 7/11 shops will also not sell alcohol during this time period.
Giotto
Member #3409
07-19-06, 13:30
Retired Army,
We still don't have the final instructions from our friends in brown. Usually alcohol will not be sold from Saturday 6 pm to Sunday 6 pm.
But during the last elections from April 2nd we got the order not to sell alcohol until Sunday midnight! You never know...
The 7/11 shops will also not sell alcohol during this time period.
Giotto
I could probably do without the grog, give the old liver a break, but I will be in Bangkok 1 1/2 nights and it would be criminal not to get a root in. My trip is last minute and my usual has made plans so I was planning on butterflying a bit. I hope 6pm is the time. Bloody pollies!
Retired Army
07-19-06, 13:32
Retired Army,
We still don't have the final instructions from our friends in brown. Usually alcohol will not be sold from Saturday 6 pm to Sunday 6 pm.
But during the last elections from April 2nd we got the order not to sell alcohol until Sunday midnight! You never know...
The 7/11 shops will also not sell alcohol during this time period.
Giotto
I don't know, I just don't remember going without alcohol during the last election. Perhaps we stocked up before hand and had a party instead. Some of our margarita parties were pretty wild until I discovered you don't mix 1 bottle of margarita mix to one bottle of Tequila. The proper mix is 3 bottles mix to one tequila. No wonder the margarita looked like [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) instead of being green.
The Traveler
07-19-06, 22:08
Very few ferangs' occupations can be worked in legally in Thailand ...
FKKguide,
I second what OTH and Giotto have said about this issue and I know from personal experiences - I have been legally working in LOS - that you are wrong.
As far as I know a company owned by British guys is running Morchit bus station for example, did you know that ?
As OTH already said, it seems that you don't know what you are talking about.
The advices in your recent posts are misleading, do you try to acquire customers for your "consulting business" that way ?
Taiwan Laowai
07-20-06, 03:55
I am interested, like many here, in living in Thailand. I'd like to experience the country as a resident for a while. I not only enjoy the pussy, but also the culture, people, lifestyle(s) and so on. I have been following the "Living in Thailand" thread for some time and have learned well the old muntra that working for a multi-national is the way to go, versus the almost hopeless chance of getting good work once in-country. I've also heeded the advice about teaching which doesn't seem like in would be a good route for me to take being that I don't want to live on peanuts and don't have the creditials to do otherwise, with teaching that is.
I'd like to know if those of you that are living in Thailand know of multi-nationals who are interested in hiring an American with a background in banking and finance.
Hi J Ride, what exactly is your banking and finance background? I don´t live in Thailand but the US investment bank I used to work for in another Asian country had a few relatively young (late 20s to mid 30s) westerners working as equity analysts in Bangkok. Most of them started in Hong Kong and were sent down after one to two years to cover regional sectors concentrated in south-east Asia or in a couple of cases to focus on sectors just in Thailand. This all started happening around 2000-2001 (well after the crisis) when the bank began expanding its Bangkok office. And unlike the case in the Seoul or Taipei offices, the western analysts in Bangkok were not required to have strong local language reading and speaking skills.
Now if you have the right background, and you should know if you do, this might be an interesting area to explore. These guys had to work hard but they were all making base pay of US$100-150K plus annual bonuses of 10-30 months additional pay, even more in some cases when they got involved in banking deals.
Perhaps it is getting harder for non-locals to get these jobs now as the pool of locals with the required standard of English analytical, speaking, and writing skills increases. I´m not sure if this trend applies to Thailand but I´ve observed it in some other Asian markets.
But even if this is the case, if you really want to go this route, you could always role up your sleeves, start learning Thai, build experience in an important local sector by offering yourself to a local Thai stock broker (one that has an international department) for subsistence wages, and eventually market yourself to one of the MN banks as a localised Farang with valuable industry experience. I´ve seen similar strategies applied in Singapore, Taiwan, and Hong Kong with very nice results.
Thai experts feel free to expand on, refine, or contradict this idea.
LittleBigMan
07-27-06, 02:00
Earlier this year there was a discussion over purchasing medicine in Thailand. The particular one was Lipitor. During my last trip in June, I visited half a dozen places in Bangkok and Pattaya. In both locations the max doses for Lipitor was 20mg, 10 pills for 850 to 900 Baht. At the current exchange rate of 38 that comes to around 24.00 US. Nothing is needed from a doctor just walk in and buy! It was the real deal.
Thought I pass this on to those that will not have Medical coverage!
LBM
Retired Army
07-27-06, 06:39
Earlier this year there was a discussion over purchasing medicine in Thailand. The particular one was Lipitor. During my last trip in June, I visited half a dozen places in Bangkok and Pattaya. In both locations the max doses for Lipitor was 20mg, 10 pills for 850 to 900 Baht. At the current exchange rate of 38 that comes to around 24.00 US. Nothing is needed from a doctor just walk in and buy! It was the real deal.
Thought I pass this on to those that will not have Medical coverage!
LBM
How can you be sure of the quality of the drug? Counterfits abound in Asia and a lot of the drugs in Thailand come from India.
How can you be sure of the quality of the drug? Counterfits abound in Asia and a lot of the drugs in Thailand come from India.
And what is your proof that they are counterfeits? Before you make a blanket statement be sure of your facts.
I think the point is that there are a lot of untrustworthy sources for prescription drugs in Asia. Even HK has instances where drugs are counterfeit (check out the recent discussion about counterfeit Viagra on the HK board).
As for facts, I've spoken to the head of Pfizer's intellectual property department in Asia and it is estimated that 10% of drugs sold in southeast Asia are counterfeit. Time has an article about it for those who are interested. http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501040607-644218,00.html
Personally, I've found a pharmacist in HK that has provided me consistenly legitimate prescription drugs and I use him most of the time. However, I've also bought near Nana plaza without problem. But I figured it was a crap shoot when I did it.
Hi guys,
In order to clear all the confusion, it's completely legal to be employed in Thailand. The regulations can be easily checked with the Department of Employment and the Immigration Bureau. Yes it's a lot of paperwork to get your work permit, and it has to be done with every renewal as well - that's one of the reasons why Thai companies don't like to employ foreigners. The other problem is our different way of working and how to solve problems. They like the way how we falangs go directly at problems and settle them, bt they don't like when it's their toes you have to step on.
Ok below a small overview about the legal situation to get a work permit and which work is not permitted for foreigners.
Next will be how to legal buy and own land as a foreigner, it's possible as well - even without setting up a company.
Cheers
Max
According to Thai Law, you must first having a Non-Immigrant Visa to apply for a Work Permit.
Required Documents:
Source: The Immigration Bureau of Thailand
• For non-permanent residents: A valid passport containing a Non- Immigrant visa (except for WP 3 applications)
• For permanent residents: A valid passport, residence permit and alien book (except for WP 3 applications)
• Evidence of applicant's educational qualifications and letter(s) of recommendation from the former employer, describing in detail the applicant's past position, duties, performance, and place and length of employment. If the documents are in a language other than English, a Thai translation certified as correct by a Thai Embassy (if abroad) or Ministry of Foreign Affairs (if in Thailand) must be attached
• A recent medical certificate from a first-class licensed physician in Thailand stating that the applicant is not of unsound mind and not suffering from leprosy, acute tuberculosis, elephantiasis, narcotic addiction or habitual alcoholism (except for WP 7 applications).
• Three 5x6 cm. full-faced, bareheaded, black and white or color photographs, taken no more than six months prior to the filing of the application
• If the application is to be filed by another person, a valid power of attorney in the prescribed form must be attached with a 10 baht duty stamp
• On the application form, the "job description" entry must be completed with a detailed statement as to what job is expected to be performed, how it is related to other people, and what materials will be used in the work (additional paper to be used if necessary)
• If the job applied for is subject to a license under a particular law, in addition to the Alien Occupation Law, a photocopy of such license, (e.g. teacher's license, physician's license, press card from the Public Relations Department, certificate of missionary status from the Office of Religious Affairs, etc.) shall be attached
• If the applicant is married to a Thai national, the original and photocopies of the following must be presented:
• Marriage certificate, spouse's identity card, birth certificates of children, household registration, as well as a photocopy of every page of the applicant's passport
• If the job being applied for is not in Bangkok, the application should be filed at the relevant province's Department of Employment, or in the absence of such an office, at the province's city hall
• Additional evidence as requested. It may be necessary to translate any or all documents into Thai.
Factors to be aware of:
1. You must be present in Thailand on a non-immigrant status entry permit, on both the day your work permit application is submitted, and the day it is picked up.
2. Your work permit will expire on the same date as the entry permit you use to pick up your work permit. This generally means that your first work permit – if issued against a 90 day entry permit, will have only 10 weeks validity, once issued. Most clients will need to use work permit to apply for extended entry permit – and once that entry permit extension is issued, apply for a renewed work permit whose expiration date matches the new entry permit.
3. In most cases, for each work permit issued to a foreigner, the sponsoring company must have 2 million baht capitalization, and at least four Thai employees. For a start-up company, it is sometimes possible to obtain a work permit for purposes of opening a bank account without meeting all requirements, but obtaining later work permit renewals generally requires that qualifying criteria be met. If a company has four Thai employees, plus 2 million baht paid-in capital for each work permit requested, it is normally very easy to obtain a work permit.
4. To satisfy new rules upcoming, monthly salary of work permit holders generally needs to be at least 60,000 Baht (you must be paying monthly personal income tax on at least this amount)
Permitted Activities
Thai law prohibits employers from allowing aliens to perform any function other than that described in the alien's Work Permit. Employers must report changes in employment, transfers and termination of all aliens in their organization within 15 days of any such action. In cases of dismissal, aliens must return their Work Permit to labor authorities in Bangkok at the Alien Occupation division or, if they are in a provincial area, to the province's Department of Employment. Failure to do so will result in a fine of up to 1,000 baht.
Any alien who engages in work without a Work Permit, or in violation of the conditions of his work as stipulated in his Permit, may be punished by a term of imprisonment not exceeding three months or a fine of up to 5,000 baht, or both. Aliens engaged in work prohibited to them by Royal Decree (see below) shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to a fine ranging from 2,000 to 100,000 baht, or both.
An employer who permits an alien to work in his organization without a Work Permit or to act in violation of the nature of the work specified in the Permit may be punished with imprisonment not exceeding three years or fined up to 60,000 baht or both.
Permit holders must obtain prior permission to change their occupation and/or place of work. Change of employer location or the residential address of the permit holder must be properly endorsed in the Work Permit by the labor authorities. The Alien Employment Act does not prevent an alien from engaging in work in more than one field or for more than one employer.
Restricted Occupations
A Royal Decree in 1973 listed 39 occupations and professions that were then prohibited to aliens. This list has been amended on several occasions by subsequent Royal Decrees, the latest one in 1979.
• Labor
• Work in agriculture, animal breeding, forestry, fishery or general farm supervision
• Masonry, carpentry, or other construction work
• Wood carving
• Driving motor vehicles or non-motorized carriers, except for piloting international aircraft
• Shop attendant
• Auctioneering
• Supervising, auditing or giving services in accounting, except occasional international auditing
• Gem cutting and polishing
• Hair cutting, hair dressing and beautician work
• Hand weaving
• Mat weaving or making of wares from reed, rattan, kenaf, straw or bamboo pulp
• Manufacture of manual fibrous paper
• Manufacture of lacquerware
• Thai musical instrument production
• Manufacture of nielloware
• Goldsmith, silversmith and other precious metal work
• Manufacture of bronzeware
• Thai doll making
• Manufacture of mattresses and padded blankets
• Alms bowl making
• Manual silk product making
• Buddha image making
• Manufacture of knives
• Paper and cloth umbrella fabrication
• Shoemaking
• Hat making
• Brokerage or agency work, except in international business
• Dressmaking
• Pottery or ceramics
• Manual cigarette rolling
• Legal or litigation service
• Clerical or secretarial work
• Manual silk reeling and weaving
• Thai character type-setting
• Hawking business
• Tourist guide or tour organizing agency
• Architectural work
• Civil engineering work
....Next will be how to legal buy and own land as a foreigner, it's possible as well - even without setting up a company...
Looking forward to reading that.
Old Thai Hand
07-27-06, 11:01
Max
Good report.
Thai government prohibition of some of the occupations you mention, (Legal and Litigation, Architecture, Tour operations, Agency work and some others) has been made illegal by GATT and Free Trade. For example, both foreign lawyers and architects cannot be prohibited from working in Thailand. In fact, the Royal Household Bureau uses a foreign law firm (in Thailand) and foreign lawyers to handle the legalities of a lot of their properties, such as Siam Paragon.
One of the main reasons that many International programs such as Law, Mass Communications, Art and Architecture and Hotel and Tourism are now being offered at Thai universities is because of the growing requirement of many Thai professionals to work in different professional environments within Thailand, which in the past were exclusively open only to Thais, but are now multi-national and require Thais to speak English and work with foreign professionals in the same field.
The Traveler
07-27-06, 19:23
How can you be sure of the quality of the drug? Counterfits abound in Asia and a lot of the drugs in Thailand come from India.
RA,
yep, that can be a problem, but you can try to get it from a respectable hospital. I am quite sure they can tell and have reliable sources.
Another way to detect counterfeits is to keep the package and the package insert of an original and compare it with the one you intend to buy. Even though the counterfeits are often very good, they also very often have tiny differences. Also keep an original tablet and compare it.
Buy only very few and "test" them. If they work as expected and all the other factors fit it is most likely an original.
The Traveler
07-27-06, 19:54
Max Sida,
good post with lots of info.
I don't know which regulations or agreements render some of the mentioned occupation prohibitions invalid, but I know for sure that running a tour organizing agency is legal. I know a farang who owns a tour agency in BKK, often booked hotel rooms through his agency.
A friend of mine used to run a goldsmith factory and also worked himself as a goldsmith, including gem cutting and polishing.
Another friend of mine used to work as a shop attendant in a goldshop and I know of others who work as architects.
Looking forward for your infos about how to legally own land as a foreigner without setting up a company.
Aa far as I know a foreigner has the following options
Receive an inheritance as a statutory heir under section 93 of the Land Code, in this instance, the total area including the land which has already been acquired (or has not yet been acquired) shall not exceed that specified in section 87 of the Land Code, i.e. not more than 1 Rai for a residential purpose.
Bringing the money into the Kingdom for investment to the amount as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulation, which shall be not less than Baht forty million. In this instance, the land to be acquired must be for a residential purpose and must be of not more than 1 Rai in area, provided also that permission must be obtained from the Minister. Under section 96 bis of the Land Code, the application for such acquisition of land shall be in accordance with rules, procedures and conditions prescribed in the Ministerial Regulation.
Applying for acquisition of land under other laws such as the Promotion of Investment Act, B.E. 2520 (1977), the Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand Act, B.E. 2522 (1979), the Petroleum Act, B.E. 2514 (1971). Detailed Information regarding the Promotion of Investment Act and the Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand Act can be obtained from the Board of Investment (BOI) and from the Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand.
30 Year Lease with Options - you can have a 30 year lease with a prepaid option to renew for a further two periods of 30 years each. The foreigner may also be given the option to purchase the land should the law in respect of foreign ownership of land change in the future. In order to be enforceable, any lease for a period of longer than three years must be registered, which involves payment of a registration fee and stamp duty based on a percentage of the rental fee for the whole lease term. The original registered lease remains in force and effect even if the property is sold. The drawbacks to a lease include the fact that the parties can contractually agree to renewals, but this right cannot be registered and is not effective against a purchaser of the property, and that the lessee cannot (without the lessor's consent) sublease, sell or transfer his or her interest.
Usufruct Interest (Sidhi-kep-kin) - gives you temporary ownership rights to things on or arising from the land. In practice, a usufruct is limited to a 30 year maximum period; like leases, the agreement can be successively renewed. In contrast to a lease, a usufructury interest can be sold or transferred, although it expires upon the death of the holder of the usufruct and therefore cannot be inherited.
But who knows, maybe there are other oprions, you never stop to learn.
Dear Traveller,
Dear Old Thai Hand,
Yes you're right that a lot work in fields which are in the restricted activities.
They also never get any problems with any authority. I just noted which is the current official rule and when following there will be no problems obtaining a workpermit.
Traveller, also your notes for owning land are completely correct. It's not so difficult, just like you did.
For the others: Read the regulations instead of listening to sombody who heard of someone who knows/read,....
Like with the workpermit, reality is often easier than the regulations. You just need to prove that it's for residence and not short term investment to make profit. I am currently in the process of buying the house/land I am living in for 5 years. When everything works out detailed info will follow. Just for now: The plot is 1.5 rai (seems no problem until now), the money is only half from abroad, other half earned in Thailand (short-term problem, was accepted when we explained them that it's even better for Thailand as for this money I had paid income tax in Thailand!)
Have to go now,
Friday evening and don't want to get in the traffic jam.
Cheers
Max
The Traveler
07-28-06, 20:37
Traveller, also your notes for owning land are completely correct. It's not so difficult, just like you did.
Read the regulations instead of listening to sombody who heard of someone who knows/read,....
Max Sida,
I never listen to anybody who claims to know something but isn't able to name it and can't point to the appropriate laws. I have heard so many stories from guys who believe to know it all, but usually they don't know shit.
I have been living, working and owned property in LOS, so it's not just hearsay or theoretically knowledge, I have actually done what I talk about.
Since I know the scams, I am very careful and usually hire two lawyers who check each other without knowing each other, garble all info that might point to them or allow to trace them down. A very close friend of me, who is also my business partner, used to be a lawyer and notary himself. He makes the final checks and also has enough influence to move switches if needed. This way I avoid mistakes or bad advice.
Looking forward to your future posts. I enjoy to read posts from knowledgeable guys like you and OTH for example. Nobody can know everything and who knows, maybe we could learn from each other.
Best regards
LittleBigMan
07-30-06, 21:17
Retired Army!
Your view is correct and only natural concerning buying medicine in Thailand or anywhere else even Mexico. I visited several location some recommended by others on this site and many by just walking around Bangkok and Pattaya.
I purchased 4 sets from 4 different locations all made by Lipitor 20 mg (10 pills). All 4 sets had the identical packaging. When I returned near the end of June, a day later I took them to a good friend that work at UC Medical research center in S.F. and confirm that the Lipitor was not counterfeit.
From that day on I have been taking the Lipitor purchased in Thailand and went for my normal blood test on the 19 July, saw my Primary doctor 28th and the result was no side affects from the Lipitor and my count was down well below 200.
So, I did my research the best I could. So far so good that's all I could ask for knowing beginning next year I will no longer have medical coverage in the U.S.
LBM
Max Sida,
I never listen to anybody who claims to know something but isn't able to name it and can't point to the appropriate laws. I have heard so many stories from guys who believe to know it all, but usually they don't know shit.
I have been living, working and owned property in LOS, so it's not just hearsay or theoretically knowledge, I have actually done what I talk about.
Since I know the scams, I am very careful and usually hire two lawyers who check each other without knowing each other, garble all info that might point to them or allow to trace them down. A very close friend of me, who is also my business partner, used to be a lawyer and notary himself. He makes the final checks and also has enough influence to move switches if needed. This way I avoid mistakes or bad advice.
Looking forward to your future posts. I enjoy to read posts from knowledgeable guys like you and OTH for example. Nobody can know everything and who knows, maybe we could learn from each other.
Best regardsWhat bull read todays Bangkok Post
You can not own land in Thailand.
Stop the partner and lawyer bull.
...you can have a 30 year lease with a prepaid option to renew for a further two periods of 30 years each...
I could be wrong, so this is a genuine question not a flame or attack (why is it now neccessary to say something like this before posting ?)
I understand the 30yr lease, and also the option to extend for an additional 30yrs, but to my knowledge (possibly wrong), the third extension is very dodgy, and to the letter of the law its actually illegal as the law relating to the lease is meant only for a 30+30yr. I know people who have 30+30+30, and i know it is available to have, but my understanding is the 3rd extension is against Thai law and if challenged for any reason would not hold up in court. As you've gone through the processes, from your experience is that not the case ?
Retired Army
08-01-06, 16:02
And what is your proof that they are counterfeits? Before you make a blanket statement be sure of your facts.
Reread the post. I only stated that counterfits are plentiful in Asia and many of the "legitimate" drugs in Thailand are manufactured in India which doesn't have the same quality control standards as Western countries.
I didn't specify "legitimate" in my post and can see how someone could misintreperet the intent. Thank you for making an issue out of it.
The Traveler
08-01-06, 19:57
I understand the 30yr lease, and also the option to extend for an additional 30yrs, but to my knowledge (possibly wrong), the third extension is very dodgy, and to the letter of the law its actually illegal as the law relating to the lease is meant only for a 30+30yr.
Meaty,
don't worry, I know who is looking for trouble and who isn't and as long as I am approached in a reasonable way I will answer to my best knowledge.
You indeed made a very good point. I had to check the appropriate Thai Laws and also searched for any according judgements of the Thai Supreme Court.
Section 540 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code states "'The duration of a hire of immovable property cannot exceed thirty years. If it is made for a longer period, such period shall be reduced to thirty years. The aforesaid period may be renewed, but it must not exceed thirty years from the time of renewal."'
So the maximum term is 30 years. Any lease of immovable property for a longer duration than 30 years may be made by renewal of the lease contract upon its expiration. The law doesn't rule out a second renewal but it doesn't mention it either.
Therefore only the first 30-years lease term is secure. It is possible to include additional clauses in the lease agreement which will rulie the renewal of the aforesaid agreement but you can easily loose these options and it will be difficult to enforce them, if they are enforceable at all.
At the end of the initial 30-year lease you will have to negotiate the registration of a new lease and the lessor has to agree to it. If he doesn't there are several defences the lessor could take and he would only be under a moral duty rather than a legal obligation.
Note that there is no such thing as automatical 30-year renewals in Thailand, the lease will automatically end after 30 years !
In short : You are right, due to the letter of the law there is only a 30+30 yrs lease possible.
Any agreements which include two further 30-year renewals, which gives a 90 years lease, making it effectively ownership contradict with the law and won't be enforceable.
Don't forget that the law was written in Thai and translated by someone who probably didn't fully know the subject matter. The original Thai might be a bit clearer to a Thai lawyer (then again, maybe not). If you really want to know what the law means, a Thai lawyer needs to look at the court decisions as well as what the legislators were attempting to do when they wrote it. With that said, on its face I believe that only the first 30 years is secure (otherwise they could have just written the law to state that a lease cannot exceeed 60 years). After that, the parties can agree to renew for another 30 year period. I would be careful with the option to renew for that additional 30 years, since an option to renew solely at the discretion of the tenant is effectively a 60 year lease (mutally consent is no problem). Again, I think the legislators would have simply said that the maximum is 60 years if they intended to give tenants the right to force a renewal.
Section 540 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code states "'The duration of a hire of immovable property cannot exceed thirty years. If it is made for a longer period, such period shall be reduced to thirty years. The aforesaid period may be renewed, but it must not exceed thirty years from the time of renewal."'
Thanks TT, as i said i wasn't sure so appreciate your knowledge.
The Traveler
08-02-06, 07:05
So when after 9/14/21 or whatever years you can renew this period,
but then again with a max of thirty years from the time of renewal.
Paulothai,
I understand what you mean and why you think like that, I had the very same thought.
As I already said, the law doesn't rule out a second renewal, but it doesn't mention it either. Due to that a second or any further renewal is in a somewhat grey area and not explicitly backed up by the law.
The law only says that the AFORESAID initial period may be renewed, it doesn't say that any period (or an already renewed period) may be renewed.
Therefore my understanding of the law is, that you only got 30+30yrs.
The Traveler
08-02-06, 07:12
Nutso,
correct,
just as I said, only the first 30 yrs are secure and the renewal must be negotiated. If your landlord doesn't agree and has other plans you are stalled.
BTW, as already mentioned, I also checked for Supreme Court decisions and was only able to find one which was referring to the possibilty to inherit a lease agreement.
I have used Indian made generic cialis bought on Sukumvit in BKK and it was no different to genuine stuff from pharmacies in HKG. I have also bought geniune cialis in HCMC phamacies where they are very keen to show that the seals are not touched.
I have tried genuine Viagra from HKG and it was exactly the same as the generic Viagra from Hanoi - gave me headaches so I gave it a miss.
Counterfeit and piracy are terms that are used by the large corporations to scare us so that they can continue to rip us off. Generic pharmaceuticals are offered in many legitimate pharmacies around the world including developed countries.
I would always be circumspect about where I buy the stuff. Pharmacies OK but not from some guy with a street stall at Nana Plaza or Soi Cowboy. I even saw viagra at a duty free shop in Medan airport.
Prices for geniune cialis in HKG are about US$30 for 4 x 20 mg pills. The generic in BKK was about half this and the geniune in HCMC about $20.
Anybody have any experience with getting laser eye surgery in Bangkok? I assume they have topnotch set ups here but would sure like to get some recommendations from anyone who got it along with price info. I am here for a few months and have been thinking of getting this done for a while now. Thanks.
Anybody have any experience with getting laser eye surgery in Bangkok? I assume they have topnotch set ups here but would sure like to get some recommendations from anyone who got it along with price info. I am here for a few months and have been thinking of getting this done for a while now. Thanks.
Not in Thailand, but in Delhi, India. I had it done two years ago. Excellent work. Cost $650 for both eyes. PM me for more info if you are interested.
Traveler1234
08-07-06, 16:35
Anybody have any experience with getting laser eye surgery in Bangkok? I assume they have topnotch set ups here but would sure like to get some recommendations from anyone who got it along with price info. I am here for a few months and have been thinking of getting this done for a while now. Thanks.
If you're in china, there are multiple sites in major urban centers that are fairly good. PM me directly if interested....
Retired Army
08-10-06, 13:29
Anybody have any experience with getting laser eye surgery in Bangkok? I assume they have topnotch set ups here but would sure like to get some recommendations from anyone who got it along with price info. I am here for a few months and have been thinking of getting this done for a while now. Thanks.
I had mine done at Bumrungrad about a year ago. Sorry I waited so long. Bumrungrad is a great facility and from what I understand Lasix surgery is fairly easy to do and uncomplicated as the computer does most of the work. My right eye turned out fine and I could see perfectly the next morning and had no complications. My left eye, however, gave me a little trouble, but over time has turned out OK. A few days after the surgery I go caught in a rainstorm and got rainwater in my left eye which I believe caused an infection. If I remember correctly the price was around THB 60,000. Might be cheaper now.
I had mine done at Bumrungrad about a year ago. .... If I remember correctly the price was around THB 60,000. Might be cheaper now.Wow - I had mine done in Australia about 7 years ago for less than half that price. I would have thought it would be cheaper in BKK. The op was painless. I arranged to have it done in the evening so that I could sleep off the panful part (healing) ovenight. Woke up with 20/20vision and still good 7 years later.
(Just checked - AUS$950 = 27,300 BT).
Funny part was asking the surgeon the question everyone asks him: Why does he wear glasses? He was honest and said there was slight risk with the surgery, and as a surgeon he couldn't take the risk, or he wouldn't be able to work again.
Retired Army
08-10-06, 14:01
Wow - I had mine done in Australia about 7 years ago for less than half that price. I would have thought it would be cheaper in BKK. The op was painless. I arranged to have it done in the evening so that I could sleep off the panful part (healing) ovenight. Woke up with 20/20vision and still good 7 years later.
(Just checked - AUS$950 = 27,300 BT).
Funny part was asking the surgeon the question everyone asks him: Why does he wear glasses? He was honest and said there was slight risk with the surgery, and as a surgeon he couldn't take the risk, or he wouldn't be able to work again.
I double checked the Bumrungrad web site and it's still 60K. One question about the Australian price you quote. Does that take into account your national health system?
Retired Army
08-10-06, 14:06
. I arranged to have it done in the evening so that I could sleep off the panful part (healing) ovenight. Woke up with 20/20vision and still good 7 years later.
Funny part was asking the surgeon the question everyone asks him: Why does he wear glasses? He was honest and said there was slight risk with the surgery, and as a surgeon he couldn't take the risk, or he wouldn't be able to work again.
I had mine done late on a Friday night and was ready for work on Monday. Had the doctor prescribe a sleeping pill. I went home, went to sleep and woke up the next morning with this terrible gunk in my eyes. Went back to Bumrungrad and they cleaned me up. And as I said before had perfect vision in my right eye. It took the left eye about six months to heal completely. Why the difference I don't know.
It should be noted that not everyone is a candidate for Lasik surgery. Conditions which may lead to detached retina is one of them. So it is very important that one should see a doctor specializing in this field for many years and has a good track record. Although the compuerized machine does the job well it is ultimately the doctor who decides if you are the right candidate.
Remember, there is no second chance on this op.
Traveler1234
08-10-06, 15:17
It should be noted that not everyone is a candidate for Lasik surgery. Conditions which may lead to detached retina is one of them. So it is very important that one should see a doctor specializing in this field for many years and has a good track record. Although the compuerized machine does the job well it is ultimately the doctor who decides if you are the right candidate.
Remember, there is no second chance on this op.
The technology for this procedure has evolved in last 10 yrs and improvements re procedure, etc. etc. I won't go into tekkie stuff.
As duni points out, it isn't for everyone and the actual procedure takes less than 20 minutes...it's all computerized and almost fool-proof. What is not fool-proof is the pre and post op examinations and treatments.
You need to go to a good eye physician to insure you qualify (most people do), you need to stick around for post-op visits/care (usually routine but again don't assume 100%), and most important, you need to prepare re expectations. Also remember many docs will under-estimate because vision will alter slightly after surgery.
In 80-90% cases, with good pre-op exam/prep, after procedure, 1 visit is usually sufficient.
Prices fluctuate per country and believe it or not, it has nothing to do with the 'actual cost' of the procedure; it's market driven. In China it's about $600 per pair of eyes and has been like that for sometime (in mid 90's actually lower). In the states you can get it done for $1000 per eye or $2500 per eye, depends on clinic and specialist.
Good luck to those who want it done :)
The difference in price is probably due to the laser equipment being used. An improved form of the laser came onto the market about three years ago. The surgery using the older version tends to cost about US$1,000 (or below) and the new one is usually somewhere between $2,000 and $3,000 in most Western countries. I was told that one of the improvements is that the newer laser is better able to handle people with large pupils without causing refraction issues (some people will see a halo around lights when their eyes are dry or at night). So, THB60,000 sounds about right, assuming they are using the latest equipment (which I would expect from Bumrungrad).
BTW - I had mine done about five years ago and it was one of the best decisions of my life. I still remember the joy of being able to jump into a swimming pool for the first time in two decades, open my eyes underwater then come to the surface and look around - felt like I was a teenager again.
Retired Army
08-10-06, 17:01
the actual procedure takes less than 20 minutes...it's all computerized and almost fool-proof. What is not fool-proof is the pre and post op examinations and treatments.
You need to go to a good eye physician to insure you qualify (most people do), you need to stick around for post-op visits/care (usually routine but again don't assume 100%), and most important, you need to prepare re expectations. Also remember many docs will under-estimate because vision will alter slightly after surgery.
In 80-90% cases, with good pre-op exam/prep, after procedure, 1 visit is usually sufficient.
Traveler is correct. The actual procedure takes less than five minutes per eye. But it is the scariest five minutes of your life. Much worse than the first time I jumped out of an airplane. That was my life, Lasik was my sight.
Like he says you need to be around for a while. In my case it took six months for my left eye to completely heal. Now my dominate right eye is better than 20/20, but my left is something else. It's called mono vision. Depending on the size of the print, the paper it's printed on and light I can usually read without reading glasses. A newspaper is a good example of something I can read. A magazine with the glossy surface or small print requires reading glasses, but for driving I am fine. Night is also a problem, but that could be due to age.
Traveler1234
08-10-06, 17:19
The difference in price is probably due to the laser equipment being used. An improved form of the laser came onto the market about three years ago. The surgery using the older version tends to cost about US$1,000 (or below) and the new one is usually somewhere between $2,000 and $3,000 in most Western countries. I was told that one of the improvements is that the newer laser is better able to handle people with large pupils without causing refraction issues (some people will see a halo around lights when their eyes are dry or at night). So, THB60,000 sounds about right, assuming they are using the latest equipment (which I would expect from Bumrungrad).
Improvements in technologies, yes.
Can't vouch either way what B using - there is no such thing as 'out-dated' units in Asia per se. When Lasik first started way back, only two suppliers from USA, since then japanese and german mfg also entered market. Constant changes, some minor in last few years.
Newer 'improved' units actually cost same or even slightly 'less' than older units....depends on mfger and country buying, after service contracts, etc. etc. Now i'm really disgressing, sorry.
But as I posted earlier, relationship to price - not really. Price is completely market driven and dependent on what each country will bear.
None of above for you and I important, what is important is finding the right doctor and clinic.....
Trust me on this!
I double checked the Bumrungrad web site and it's still 60K. One question about the Australian price you quote. Does that take into account your national health system?No - it wasn't covered by the health system. The surgeon was the best in the city (recommended by a few optometrists, putting themselves out of business ;)), but he'd just started out on his own instead of working for a clinic, so he had reduced rates at the time. I had astigmatism corrected, but he told me I would need reading glasses about 5 years later due to age, and this couldn't be corrected. 7 years later, still no specs.
At the operation, he asked me to donate my specs to his charity for people who found it difficult to afford them. Unfortunately my specs fell off my face and into a crocodile pit at Singapore zoo a few days earlier, and I wasn't going to argue with a croc wearing specs to get them back.
Brotherrabitt
08-10-06, 20:06
Did mine in Turkey last year. They had to close some tears I had in my eye, and for that the upper layer of the eye was removed (do know the english name for it). That was pretty scary, they remove it with a very little brush, which looks f-ing gigantic from up close.
In any case, because of that, it took some 30 odd days for the vision to be completely unblurred, the first few days it was like looking at the world through a bottle of joghurt. I also had to wear contact lenses to protect the eyes against dirt etc.
However this minor inconveniences are quickly forgotten when for the first time in years you do not need your glasses anymore. However, contrary to Piper, I do need reading glasses now, but that is no problem.
I also have this problem with driving in the dark, which I did not have before the operation. No idea why that is, but especially the lights of cars coming my way are blurred, seems to have an aura or something.
I paid Euro 600 for both eyes, cheap compared to other places in Europe, and I did it in a clinic in Istanbul, which according to a dutch newspaper at the time was regarded as one of the best in Europe. I can not compare, but it was very good.
V.
Traveler1234
08-10-06, 20:12
I also have this problem with driving in the dark, which I did not have before the operation. No idea why that is, but especially the lights of cars coming my way are blurred, seems to have an aura or something.
V.
This is one of THE most common 'side-effects'...the halo effect that occurs either in day time or more likely night time, especially when driving.
The doc should have advised you that this is a side-effect to consider before the procedure. Risk has diminished recently with newer technology...but still present.
PS - Piper1: now we know why you're such an accomplished photographer :)
Brotherrabitt
08-10-06, 20:17
This is one of THE most common 'side-effects'...the halo effect that occurs either in day time or more likely night time, especially when driving.
The doc should have advised you that this is a side-effect to consider before the procedure. Risk has diminished recently with newer technology...but still present.
Thanks T1234,
any solution, like wearing special sunglasses for night driving ? seen those somewhere.
V.
Retired Army
08-10-06, 21:50
Thanks T1234,
any solution, like wearing special sunglasses for night driving ? seen those somewhere.
V.
Wearing sunglasses for night driving doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
For those not wanting to get surgury but wanting good eyesight without glasses or contact lens there is another option. There are a special kind of contact lens that one wears at night which shape the eye. The next day one takes out the contact lens and can see fine. A person can swim and do all the things he wants to do with out glasses or contacts. The next night you put the special contact lens back in. I looked into it but was told I would still need reading glasses. I think the same would go for eye surgury though.
http://www.allaboutvision.com/contacts/orthok.htm
Regards Horatio
Retired Army
08-11-06, 07:44
I check into the night contact lense option, but was told that my eyes didn't generate enough moisture to wear them. It would be like having sand in my eyes and would be uncomfortable and could cause damage during REM sleep.
Brotherrabitt
08-11-06, 08:10
Wearing sunglasses for night driving doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
RA
Sunglasses might not be the correct word, they are glasses specifically developed for night driving, the glass itself is also slightly coloured, so they look like sunglasses, but are not.
Hope this makes sense somewhat.
V.
There are a couple of side effects after lasik surgery.
1. Your eyes will be drier so a mositurising solution is recommended
2. Flares or halos around headlights, streetlights etc. But not all people get it.
RA, your physician did not do it right. In mono vision, one eye is trained for reading and the other for distance. Before I had my surgery I practised mono-vision while wearing contact lenses. When the surgery is performed the adjustment to cornea shape is factored in for mono vision. So after your eyes heal, you should not have to use glasses/contacts for reading.
In my case before surgery the left eye was for reading and the right for distance. After surgery, I was informed that the opposite was done because of the eye condition. It only took a few days to re adjust.
If you want to do without the glasses for reading, you must tell the physician that you want to practice mono vision.
For night driving get a light color or clear polarized glasses. This will reduce the flares dramatically or in most cases wipe it out.
Retired Army
08-11-06, 09:30
There are a couple of side effects after lasik surgery.
1. Your eyes will be drier so a mositurising solution is recommended
2. Flares or halos around headlights, streetlights etc. But not all people get it.
RA, your physician did not do it right. In mono vision, one eye is trained for reading and the other for distance. Before I had my surgery I practised mono-vision while wearing contact lenses. When the surgery is performed the adjustment to cornea shape is factored in for mono vision. So after your eyes heal, you should not have to use glasses/contacts for reading.
If you want to do without the glasses for reading, you must tell the physician that you want to practice mono vision.
I think she did the surgery correctly because I am happy with the results. Mono vision is what I have. My right eye is for distance and my left for intermediate vision. I had perfect nearsight before the operation and only wanted to do the right eye, but the doctor told me that having far and near sight wouldn't be good. That is why the intermediate vision on the left eye. From about three feet to ten I can see OK with my left eye. I can also read most things and use the computer without glasses. But a cheap set of +1 reading glasses helps and I can get those anywhere. I was informed of the possible need for reading glasses before the surgery and many of the other people who have had the surgery have had similiar results as mine.
I consider Lasik a good investment. I was spending $300 a year on glasses and I figure over five years the surgery will pay for itself.
RA, I stand corrected. My case is different then.
Traveler1234
08-11-06, 21:08
Vandalnn
These are the possible alternatives to consider:
1. Active wavefront treatment - this is essential a 'second' surgery with computer programming of the laser to correct 'high order aberrations' or 'visual static' that causes problems at night. If you do a google search there are more details to read.
2. Use of rigid lenses (contact lenses) that will cover up the 'visual static'.
3. Use of Alphagan drops at night will decrease the pupil size and help the symptoms.
Usual disclaimer - I'm not a medical practitioner, and you should first consult with your doctor.
Good luck
T1234
Brotherrabitt
08-12-06, 07:54
Vandalnn
These are the possible alternatives to consider:
1. Active wavefront treatment - this is essential a 'second' surgery with computer programming of the laser to correct 'high order aberrations' or 'visual static' that causes problems at night. If you do a google search there are more details to read.
2. Use of rigid lenses (contact lenses) that will cover up the 'visual static'.
3. Use of Alphagan drops at night will decrease the pupil size and help the symptoms.
Usual disclaimer - I'm not a medical practitioner, and you should first consult with your doctor.
Good luck
T1234
T1245
Thanks a lot for your effort to find possible "cures" for the nightvision problem.
What I will try is as follows:
- nightvision glasses, if that does not work
- alphagan drops (either alone or in combination with the nightvision glasses).
- further laser treatment if nothing works
or maybe get a driver for nights :)
Can't stand lenses, that is one of the reasons I did the laser treatment in the first place.
T, again thanks a lot for your assistance.
V.
I am looking for some feedback on mobile phone service providers in BKK and Pattaya. I have searched this forum but see only a few comments dated '05 about Dtac and Orange.
I am planning to pick up a sim card on my next trip to Thailand in Sept but unsure what company to buy. I will be mainly in BKK and Pattaya. I will not use this card to make any International call but mainly as a local contact number for my GF(s). Also, I am planning to use my Motorola Razr V3 with the phone already unlocked.
Bob
Traveler1234
08-12-06, 16:38
T1245
Thanks a lot for your effort to find possible "cures" for the nightvision problem.
What I will try is as follows:
- alphagan drops (either alone or in combination with the nightvision glasses).
- further laser treatment if nothing works
or maybe get a driver for nights :)
T, again thanks a lot for your assistance.
V.
i think two best options are eye drops first, then a driver (preferably female TG:) )
Brotherrabitt
08-13-06, 07:48
i think two best options are eye drops first, then a driver (preferably female TG:) )
In that case it might be better to drive myself and let her take care of some other "issues" whilst driving.
However, just as a last follow up, went to see a few people yesterday, spent some time on the net, and these nightview glasses (sold here by some chain) were co developed by the dutch national science institute, seem to do the trick, at least they will diminish the halo effect significantly. But they also seem to work very well when it's raining or if there is fog, basically any situation where light can play nasty tricks.
I have ordered some zero strenght glasses, should be ready in a week or so, cost approx E 60 (incl the spec itself, youi can of course make it much more expensive). See if it works.
V.
I am looking for some feedback on mobile phone service providers in BKK and Pattaya. I have searched this forum but see only a few comments dated '05 about Dtac and Orange.
<...>
Bob
I happen to use AIS, but certainly there are others. I've had good coverage in Bangkok and Pattaya, but it's been awhile since I've been to the latter.
No issue with RAZR (I've used SIMs fro all over in my RAZRs and SLVR with no prob).
Cheers,
-Y
Retired Army
08-13-06, 09:23
I am looking for some feedback on mobile phone service providers in BKK and Pattaya. I have searched this forum but see only a few comments dated '05 about Dtac and Orange.
I am planning to pick up a sim card on my next trip to Thailand in Sept but unsure what company to buy. I will be mainly in BKK and Pattaya. I will not use this card to make any International call but mainly as a local contact number for my GF(s). Also, I am planning to use my Motorola Razr V3 with the phone already unlocked.
Bob
They are all good and no real difference in service between any of them. You can get sim cards just about anywhere especially at any 7-11, Pantip Plaza or MBK Shoping Center. 7-11s are found on just about every corner in Bangkok, but more expensive. Your best deals are at MBK and you can choose your number.
They are all good and no real difference in service between any of them. You can get sim cards just about anywhere especially at any 7-11, Pantip Plaza or MBK Shoping Center. 7-11s are found on just about every corner in Bangkok, but more expensive. Your best deals are at MBK and you can choose your number.I agree with Retired Army and they are all good. I normally get a sim card from the MBK and I've used Orange service my last two trips to Thailand. And this last trip I brought my unlocked Motorola Razr and it worked great in Thailand.
This is one of THE most common 'side-effects'...the halo effect that occurs either in day time or more likely night time, especially when driving.
The doc should have advised you that this is a side-effect to consider before the procedure. Risk has diminished recently with newer technology...but still present.
PS - Piper1: now we know why you're such an accomplished photographer :)
Actually I did ask my doctor about this item. First off many people try to cheat the universal rule of life "You get what you pay for" hence by getting cut rate deals on something as important as your eyesight, you have this common side-effect.
I went to the doctor who wrote a book on eye laser treatment and he explain that this common side-effect is a mis-nomer and it is a result of using cheaper equipment that works on less area of the eye.
I had the surgery done and no night halos.
Maybe it is more accurate to say that it was a more common side-effect of the older equipment. The improvements over the last few years have included the ability to cover larger pupils which in part helps reduce vision issues. If your pupils are small, then there is less chance of the halo even using the older equipment.
I went to the doctor who wrote a book on eye laser treatment and he explain that this common side-effect is a mis-nomer and it is a result of using cheaper equipment that works on less area of the eye.
I had the surgery done and no night halos.
Retired Army
08-15-06, 07:01
Ditto on the night halos,
I had mine done at Bumrungrad and don't have night halos. I was really impressed with the overall experience, but there is no way I would go through it again. Having something like that done to your eyes while you are awake... especially when they detach your cornea and everything goes fuzzy white.
Ditto on the night halos,
I had mine done at Bumrungrad and don't have night halos. I was really impressed with the overall experience, but there is no way I would go through it again. Having something like that done to your eyes while you are awake... especially when they detach your cornea and everything goes fuzzy white.
RA, they don't detach your cornea. They cut out the membrane covering it to get access to the cornea.
Actually I did ask my doctor about this item. First off many people try to cheat the universal rule of life "You get what you pay for" hence by getting cut rate deals on something as important as your eyesight, you have this common side-effect.
I had the surgery done and no night halos.
Thaid up, spoken like a true capitalist (no flames intended). Western doctors specially in the US propagate this gloom and doom just to get business at an exorbitant rate. I had my surgery done in India for less than $600.00 compared to $3500.00 quoted in the USA. And yes I don't have halos.
Retired Army
08-15-06, 08:11
RA, they don't detach your cornea. They cut out the membrane covering it to get access to the cornea.
Whatever, all I remember is that everything went white like being in a cloud and I couldn't see anything.
Traveler1234
08-15-06, 14:43
Actually I did ask my doctor about this item. First off many people try to cheat the universal rule of life "You get what you pay for" hence by getting cut rate deals on something as important as your eyesight, you have this common side-effect.
I went to the doctor who wrote a book on eye laser treatment and he explain that this common side-effect is a mis-nomer and it is a result of using cheaper equipment that works on less area of the eye.
I had the surgery done and no night halos.
It was a 'common-side effect' years past - meaning that of the many possible side-effects, one of the most common was the night halo. That is not to say it was a common (eg high percentage) occurence.
With all due respect to your doc (and I suspect he really didn't say it), 'cheaper equipment' is really a mis-nomer. Way back, when lasik first started, there were two vendors, one in Texas, other in Boston, both top notch technology companies and of high repute. Subsequently one german and one japanese company got into the mix, both again of high reputation. Prices from each vendor not substantially different, many $10-20,000 per machine.
It's possible that certain clinics do not service/calibrate their equipment regularly, etc. and that might be one reason for more 'side-effects'. And of course, many docs are complacent....
Improvements in the technology, in how to treat patients, etc. in recent years have made the surgery now more of 'commodity' procedure. In the states, you hear advertising for so and so clinic, each eye around $1,000 or even less. Many of such clinics claim vast experience, which is I assume true.
Question is - do you want to see a doc that does 20 of these a day or do you want to see a specialists that spends extra 20-30 minutes per patient and as a result charges substantially higher? Everyone makes their own decision.
<Warning: this post contains no useful information about mongering, drinking or even eating in Bangkok. Feel free to move on to more topical posts.>
I'm sitting here in my apartment overlooking Menaam Chao Phraya, sipping on some McCallans 18 (this after a bottle of decent South Australian Shiraz, but who's counting?).
So, it's a year since I moved to Bangkok - more than 2 1/2 years of pretty constantly traveling in Asia. (However, not my first exposure: went to school in Okinawa, first went to China over 6 yrs ago, etc.).
I can say all things considered, I lead a pretty decent life; maybe I travel too much (in the last year, I may have actually spent 2 months here), but that's the nature of my business - besides, I'm well-compensated, and it gives me an opportunity to compare the great cities (and women) of Asia, Australia, and - on occassion - Europe.
Despite this, I'm feeling a bit melancholy. Why is that? I mean, I've just come back from a week in KL, where a perky 25 YO Filipina I found at the Beach Club made for a long, and satisfying late night/morning; the week before that I was in Manila, where a 20 YO Filipina from a place in P Burgois (Ringside? - forget the name now), with a to die-for ass, tiny pebble-like nipples and an oh-my-gawd-tight box had Willie gasping for air; and last night a trip to one of my favorite Soi Cowboy hangouts produced a freebie of similar satisfaction.
Shit, by all accounts, many of my US-based friends would be green with envy. So I should be as happy as pig in shit, eh?
Funny things is, I'm getting a bit disillusioned with LOS - or at least Bangkok. Aside from the couple of regular freebies I get here, all-in-all the P4P scene seems to have gone downhill in the last few years - especially so in the last year, it seems. Way too much pushing for lady drinks. Way too much emphasis on money (yes, I know that's how they make their living), not enough on delivering good service/value.
Maybe it's time to move... have to admit I've had some rockin' times with Filipinas lately, but I hate the Manila traffic and Ninoy Aquino Airport is the frickin' dumps, but I'm beginning to think BKk is not nearly the value it once was...
OK, I gotta go refill my scotch glass, so off the soap box. Carry on.
Cheers,
-Y
Member #2041
08-19-06, 17:29
Yi Ren, if you spent some time getting your balls busted by some ugly overweight american cow who won't suck your dick until you've dropped $500 bucks on her over 3 dates, and even then, she will chew your ear off with her bullshit, you would be singing a different song. You say, and I have no reason doubt, that you've got regular freebies in Bangkok, and you just described two great ladies you spent some long time with in the Phillipines.
But too freaking bad that the Manilla airport is a dump. Tell that to my brothers who just spent 8 hours on a security line in Heathrow or JFK, only to miss their flights and have to repeat the process the next day - only this time, without their shampoo, toothpaste, and contact lens fluid. You want more variety, well you are only a short hop to the lovlies of Chiang Mai, or go see the temples at Angkor by day, and have a passionate all nighter with a Khmer beauty afterwards - not a freebie, it may cost you $20 plus $5 for her dinner. And Siem Reap airport is new and clean. Or, take a 2 hour drive to Pattaya for any sexual diversion that can be imagined.
I suspect that the fact that you have been living in paradise so long that you are forgetting what the real world is like.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5266716.stm
It seems from this teaching work is easy to get but I imagine they will check up backgrounds a little more. The piece says only a minority of teachers are there for the pussy. I'd say that's news to most mongers.
Who is this Frank Moore webmaster guy?
<..>
I suspect that the fact that you have been living in paradise so long that you are forgetting what the real world is like.
Member 2041,
Heh. Thanks for the reality check. :)
Yeah, you're right, I should be appreciative of the very fact that even in the limited time I've spent in BKK I do have a couple of regular freebies to visit. (Of course, they're never really "free": one is a manager of a Soi Cobwoy bar, and while I don't "pay" her, I always give her some "taxi money"; the other runs a language school in Pattaya, and I don't see her as often.)
BTW, your comment about ugly overweight american cows, is the very reason I won't live in the US - or UK, for that matter. Australia is only marginally better; at least most cities like Sydney, Adelaide and especially Perth have a fair number of Asians.
Cheers,
-Y
Member 2041,
Heh. Thanks for the reality check. :)
And I should add that I live on the 49th flr of a condimimium with 2 pools (indoor and outdoor) 2 fitness rooms, 24 hr security, etc., in a 2 bedroom apartment with hardwood and marble floors, A/C, etc., and pay about $700/mo, all-up (rent, utilities, broadband Internet).
:) :)
Cheers,
-Y
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5266716.stm
It seems from this teaching work is easy to get but I imagine they will check up backgrounds a little more. The piece says only a minority of teachers are there for the pussy. I'd say that's news to most mongers.
Who is this Frank Moore webmaster guy?
I'd say that most teachers here are not here for the pussy - but I've only met a few, and so what do I know?
I remember reading an article about a Christian group that mentioned Frank Moore. If you'd like some good information on teaching English in Thailand, you may want to peruse stickman's site: http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/
Cheers,
-Y
Member #4732
08-19-06, 18:28
Guys, help me out here please. I'm trying to make a job decision and gathering information quickly. Any help would be appreciated.
I have an offer for new position w/in existing US based company. Job will require lots of travel in Asia, primarily India and China. I have proposed to my company that I would prefer to rent a serviced apartment in Bangkok and use that as my base. This will be for at least a year. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Are there any particulars I need to worry about, re multi-entry visa? Is the maximum multi-entry visa only 3 months? Would I need to reapply for a new one every 3 months or is it extendable?
I read on http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/visa/visa.htm#Fees that it is $50 per entry or $125 for multi. Is that unlimited entries?
Guys, help me out here please. I'm trying to make a job decision and gathering information quickly. Any help would be appreciated.
I have an offer for new position w/in existing US based company. Job will require lots of travel in Asia, primarily India and China. I have proposed to my company that I would prefer to rent a serviced apartment in Bangkok and use that as my base. This will be for at least a year. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Are there any particulars I need to worry about, re multi-entry visa? Is the maximum multi-entry visa only 3 months? Would I need to reapply for a new one every 3 months or is it extendable?
I read on http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/visa/visa.htm#Fees that it is $50 per entry or $125 for multi. Is that unlimited entries?
Rovnak,
Unless your company has a legal presence here, you will need to rely on tourist visas. I'm in the same boat: my US-based company has no legal presence here, but since I travel so often, I never exceed the 30-day entrance visa granted US citizens.
FWIW, US citizens pay no entry visa fee; not clear on your nationality, so don't know if this applies. I have have many, many Thai stamps in my passport. :)
Cheers,
-Y
This is a question to all the people who live in Thailand: How much does it cost to live, comfortable, in Thailand (not including rent) per month?
Thanks
K
Member #4732
08-19-06, 21:18
rovnak,
unless your company has a legal presence here, you will need to rely on tourist visas. i'm in the same boat: my us-based company has no legal presence here, but since i travel so often, i never exceed the 30-day entrance visa granted us citizens.
fwiw, us citizens pay no entry visa fee; not clear on your nationality, so don't know if this applies. i have have many, many thai stamps in my passport. :)
cheers,
-y
thanks. more info. yes, i have us passport. my company is big multinational. i'm sure my company has presence in thailand as well. however, i do not want to involve the big hr relocation crap. i'm single, i want to make this a light process venture.
i just want to have a base and then have my manager approve my travel to and from that base.
perhaps, i will never be there for > 30 days continuous, this is probably true. however, i will, in truth, work from the apartment, email and phone work so, high speed internet connection is a must by the way.
most likely scenario is that i would travel 3 weeks out of 4, leaving thailand on monday returning to thailand on friday, that type of thing. then work one week from apartment. so you think there would be no problem executing that plan on tourist visa? they would not raise any questions or eyebrows, when they see the pattern?
how has using bangkok as base worked out for you? did you consider other bases? i assume frequent planes to other asian locations? easy access to airport etc? any advice or recommendations will be appreciated.
looking for ballpark on serviced apartments also. not fussy. don't need much space. high speed internet, fitness center and reasoable access to the airport are primary considerations. looking to spend between usd 500-1000/month on serviced apartment. it seems that the rates in thb vary widely. can i assume that they are all girl visitor friendly?
http://www.thaiapartment.com/servicedapartment/index.asp
Thanks. More info. Yes, I have US passport. My company is big multinational. I'm sure my company has presence in Thailand as well. However, I do not want to involve the big HR relocation crap. I'm single, I want to make this a light process venture.
........
Interesting,
wonder if your company even would allow that you go this way without official relocation. If this is a big company, spread globally, usually there are other things involved with an official assignment.
- 'Foreign countries service premiums' (=salary up!)
- special health insurance packages
- several tax fee premiums
- several additional allowances
- living conditions probably more upper class then at home
- etc.
never heard of big multinational companies where the official assignment and relocation was not the better deal then based on business trip like conditions.
So what do you think is better if you go a more unofficial way, what's the crap in your case? Usually relocation services are professionally organized. You almost have to do nothing.
a curious
Brain666
<Warning: this post contains no useful information about mongering, drinking or even eating in Bangkok. Feel free to move on to more topical posts.>
I'm sitting here in my apartment overlooking Menaam Chao Phraya, sipping on some McCallans 18 (this after a bottle of decent South Australian Shiraz, but who's counting?).
So, it's a year since I moved to Bangkok - more than 2 1/2 years of pretty constantly traveling in Asia. (However, not my first exposure: went to school in Okinawa, first went to China over 6 yrs ago, etc.).
I can say all things considered, I lead a pretty decent life; maybe I travel too much (in the last year, I may have actually spent 2 months here), but that's the nature of my business - besides, I'm well-compensated, and it gives me an opportunity to compare the great cities (and women) of Asia, Australia, and - on occassion - Europe.
Despite this, I'm feeling a bit melancholy. Why is that? I mean, I've just come back from a week in KL, where a perky 25 YO Filipina I found at the Beach Club made for a long, and satisfying late night/morning; the week before that I was in Manila, where a 20 YO Filipina from a place in P Burgois (Ringside? - forget the name now), with a to die-for ass, tiny pebble-like nipples and an oh-my-gawd-tight box had Willie gasping for air; and last night a trip to one of my favorite Soi Cowboy hangouts produced a freebie of similar satisfaction.
Shit, by all accounts, many of my US-based friends would be green with envy. So I should be as happy as pig in shit, eh?
Funny things is, I'm getting a bit disillusioned with LOS - or at least Bangkok. Aside from the couple of regular freebies I get here, all-in-all the P4P scene seems to have gone downhill in the last few years - especially so in the last year, it seems. Way too much pushing for lady drinks. Way too much emphasis on money (yes, I know that's how they make their living), not enough on delivering good service/value.
Maybe it's time to move... have to admit I've had some rockin' times with Filipinas lately, but I hate the Manila traffic and Ninoy Aquino Airport is the frickin' dumps, but I'm beginning to think BKk is not nearly the value it once was...
OK, I gotta go refill my scotch glass, so off the soap box. Carry on.
Cheers,
-Y
Yi Ren,
reading your report might create a response at us non Thai residents like:
’Are you nuts, you over selfish guys in Thailand? You are living in a paradise and are complaining about the fishbowl surrounding you? For you it’s just to grab the fruit in the basket and then you feel everything goes down? We as a visitor’s envoy you all living there and you are complaining. Unbelievable, you are not worth to live there!’
That’s what I thought the first moment reading your comment, as I have just 2 weeks returned from my first ever Bangkok trip where I had the best mongering week of my life with almost 24h GFE, all girls much more hit and definitely no miss.
For reference you can read my long reports about my experience:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=494717&postcount=1121
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=494720&postcount=1122
Also did some comment here about the P4P scene as rather fluent and almost not to distinguish with a freebee, probably even girlfriend.
So lets analyze how your impression comes after 1 year living there. My theory is, and this might be based on what I probably feel as well in my EXPAT location Seoul.
In your current hometown Bangkok, you are looking different to the girls themselves, but probably mainly you are looking for different girls. While we visitors make positive experiences with e.g. the classical P4P, the GoGo girls we pick up for one night, you are probably looking more for the freebee section and a bit more longtime relation, at least you are more selective. Can’t believe, that you couldn’t have the same positive 1 night stands as we visitors have, but I guess you are not looking for it anymore. To complicated, you can’t enjoy a long night GFE not watching the time, as you need to get up for work in the morning and kick her out. So some 6 h’s potential GFE you will always miss under living and not vacation conditions.
Same happened to me in Seoul. Before I was localized here I was a visitor staying in the hotel and from time to time I picked a P4P girl from the hotel disco and enjoyed some hours a good session.
Since I have my apartment here (serviced residence type), I so far never took somebody to my room, even if there was enough chance for P4P and also ‘freebee’ type. Always did my adventures outside in MP’s, RLD’s etc. since I am resident.
So I think as soon as you are a resident in one place, your behave and your needs regarding your companion women changes, compared to the visitors and mongering tourists.
See yourself: When you report from your Filipina experiences in other places: Yes there you are the typical P4P visitor on business occasion enjoying under those ‘visitor rules’ and not under a resident environment then.
So that’s how I interpret my own and probably your impressions.
I learned for myself and probably general for all humans:
We always envoy what we don’t have, but we hardly value appropriately what we have.
Regards
Brain666
Retired Army
08-20-06, 08:04
So, it's a year since I moved to Bangkok - .).
I
Despite this, I'm feeling a bit melancholy. Why is that?
Shit, by all accounts, many of my US-based friends would be green with envy. So I should be as happy as pig in shit, eh?
Funny things is, I'm getting a bit disillusioned with LOS - or at least Bangkok. Aside from the couple of regular freebies I get here, all-in-all the P4P scene seems to have gone downhill in the last few years - especially so in the last year...
...but I'm beginning to think BKk is not nearly the value it once was...
Maybe Thailand reality is setting in. Those of us who live here know of the downsides, accept and deal with them. We have an understanding of the problems that "visitors" don't get to see because they don't even begin to scratch the surface of Thai society and life. Thailand ain't all paradise, you have to take the good with the bad. But in my opinion, it's better than living in the U.S..
I agree with you that the Philippines has some appeal. Lots of cute English speaking girls who need money and provide unlimited entertainment. But the PI has it's own set of problems and the longer you are there the more the problems become evident and in a year or so you will be feeling the same way you are now, wishing you were back in LOS or some other place such as KL with it's problems.
Retired Army
08-20-06, 08:11
This is a question to all the people who live in Thailand: How much does it cost to live, comfortable, in Thailand (not including rent) per month?
Thanks
K
It all depends onthe type of lifestyle you wish to maintain. You can easily live on $1,000 a month (including rent) or have trouble making ends meet with $10,000. It's much more expensive in BKK than in other locations such as Udorn where you can live like a king for next to nothing.
If you want to adapt a Thai lifestyle (which ain't bad) you can get by on a lot less. If you want to maintain a Western lifestyle (which ain't great) it will cost a lot more.
Member #2041
08-20-06, 18:48
It all depends onthe type of lifestyle you wish to maintain. You can easily live on $1,000 a month (including rent) or have trouble making ends meet with $10,000.
I cannot comprehend having trouble living on $10,000 a month in Bangkok - Even if I were to drop $5K of that on a Grande Deluxe 2BR suite at the Emporium Suites. I still can't see spending more than $50-60 a day on food, and another $50-80 a day on companionship, and $20-30/day on transportation. And, were I to drop down to a more rational 1 BR suite for $3K a month, I would suddenly have another $70 a day for travel and entertainment.
Admittedly, I would like to give a $10K/month budget in Bangkok a try, just once. I also think that $1K/month would only allow for a very spartan level of existence. In my experience for short term stays, EXCLUDING rent or hotels, I find that I tend to spend $75-100 a day on entertainment, food, and transportation in Thailand - with half of that going for companionship.
I think, realistically $2K a week allows you achieve significant luxury in Bangkok, and $500 a week allows for a reasonable level of comfort. That's probably the plausible range - assuming that you WILL want to obtain companionship, otherwise, why come here?
Retired Army
08-20-06, 19:27
I know many expats that live in Thailand for less than $1,000 USD a month. Most are in the N.E. and they are doing fine.
My budget for Bangkok is $5,000 a month and I don't live "high on the hog." No car, a two bedroom condo; but, in a prime location on the BTS Route, a Thai GF and several on-call "service providers." Somehow at the end of the month the $5,000 is almost all gone. Add in a Mercedes, a bigger condo in a prestigeous location such as the Emporium, dinner out every night at a Western restaurant entertaining Thai friends and picking up the check, a couple of mi-a-nois and their associated expenses, and two or three short times every week (or night) I can easily see myself spending close to 10 grand a month.
In contrast, a friend in Udorn has a house, a Toyota Pickup, Thai wife and couple of kids all on an enlisted man's retirement.
Yi Ren,<...>
In your current hometown Bangkok, you are looking different to the girls themselves, but probably mainly you are looking for different girls. While we visitors make positive experiences with e.g. the classical P4P, the GoGo girls we pick up for one night, you are probably looking more for the freebee section and a bit more longtime relation, at least you are more selective. <...>
Brain666
Brain666,
Thanks for your thoughtful response - very insightful. Yes, you are absolutely correct about my selecton process in BKK now: I'm definitely inclined towards the more conservative-looking, and not so young as to obvously be the age of my daughter. I live in a nice, upscale building inhabited mostly by Thais, and I don't want to offend, or have them think poorly of me (typical Asian, I know).
As I give it more (sober) thought, my laments are probably more to do with my situation, rather than my location. I have to admit it would be nice to have a lady "companion", rather than a "toy" on occassion. Even Christmas morning would get old if it happened every week.
And I suppose the two women I see occassionaly are just not what I'm looking for in a companion - otherwise, I'd certainly be inclined to spend more time with them.
Anyway, thanks again.
Cheers,
-Y
Maybe Thailand reality is setting in. Those of us who live here know of the downsides, accept and deal with them. We have an understanding of the problems that "visitors" don't get to see because they don't even begin to scratch the surface of Thai society and life. Thailand ain't all paradise, you have to take the good with the bad. But in my opinion, it's better than living in the U.S..
I agree with you that the Philippines has some appeal. Lots of cute English speaking girls who need money and provide unlimited entertainment. But the PI has it's own set of problems and the longer you are there the more the problems become evident and in a year or so you will be feeling the same way you are now, wishing you were back in LOS or some other place such as KL with it's problems.
Retired Army,
Heh, maybe it's reality in general that's setting in. :) As I mentioned in my reply to Brain666, my complaints may have as much to do with my situation as my location. But still, I do percieve a general change today in the Bangkok scene (at least, where I frequent), compared to a few years ago.
I believe I have a fair inkling of the pros and cons of living in Thailand, and all things considered, still have a positive appreciation for the people, country, culture, language and food. Maybe I have been lucky, but I have no horror stories other than having picked a "dud" on occassion.
Manila (where I am again this week), has some attraction as well, not the least of which are some contacts that could be valuable in future business plans I'm considering. I think there may be more econmic opportunity for me, and I could also bring over some of my car toys from the US fairly painlessly.
As for KL, well, I actually considered living there, but the business environment with the bumiputera thing is a strong disincentive for me. And the haze is just depressing at this time of year.
Cheers,
-Y
<...>
I think, realistically $2K a week allows you achieve significant luxury in Bangkok, and $500 a week allows for a reasonable level of comfort. That's probably the plausible range - assuming that you WILL want to obtain companionship, otherwise, why come here?
Low cost of living. Great International flight connectivity. Great food (yes, I love spicy Thai food).
Believe it or not, those were the main factors that I used to decide where to live in Asia. I could've chosen virtually anywhere.
Cheers,
-Y
Member #2041
08-21-06, 17:45
Low cost of living.
For me, it's the low cost of loving.
Traveler1234
08-22-06, 15:46
An alternative to above is available:
Alternative to Laser Eye Surgery: Lens Implants
BY LAURA JOHNANNES
August 22, 2006; Page D3
Myopes who dream of tossing their glasses but don't like the hassle of caring for contact lenses now have a new alternative. Companies selling two new lenses implanted permanently into the eye claim visual results similar to -- or better than -- laser surgery. The lens implant surgery is more invasive and costlier, but ophthalmologists say it is an excellent alternative, particularly for people with nearsightedness so severe they aren't good candidates for the laser.
* * *
Nearly 30% of Americans are nearsighted, according to the American Optometric Association. Millions have gotten laser surgery to reshape their corneas, eliminating the need for glasses or contact lenses.
During the past two years, a new surgical alternative, in which a lens is implanted permanently in the eye, has become available in the U.S. The implants, called "phakic intraocular lenses," supplement the eye's natural lens. They are sold in the U.S. by two companies, Staar Surgical Co. of Monrovia, Calif., and Advanced Medical Optics Inc. of Santa Ana, Calif., which also sells equipment used in laser eye surgery.
The implant procedure is significantly more expensive than laser surgery -- typically $2,500 to $4,000 per eye compared with $500 to $3,000 for the laser -- and is considered more invasive because it involves a deeper cut. It is rarely covered by insurance.
The new implants, however, have some advantages, particularly for severe myopes. The more nearsighted a person is, the more corneal tissue that must be removed by laser surgery, increasing the result of a poor outcome or long-term complications. For this reason, the implants are a better alternative for very nearsighted people and those with very thin corneas.
Another advantage of the implants is that if you aren't happy for any reason, you can have them removed and return to your original quality of vision. With laser surgery, if you're left with an irritating side effect -- such as glare at night -- it can sometimes, but not always, be corrected by glasses or further surgery. Also, with the implant, if better technology comes along later, you can have it removed and get the latest procedure. Unlike laser surgery, you won't have lost a portion of your cornea in the process.
If you're eligible for both laser surgery and the implants, the choice may not be easy since there are no large rigorous trials comparing the two. Some ophthalmologists recommend laser surgery because it has a longer track record in the U.S. and may be less risky. Others prefer implants because they believe it provides the best visual outcome; two small studies suggest vision may indeed be crisper with the implants than with laser surgery, but the evidence is preliminary.
Both Staar's Visian and Advanced Medical Optic's Verisyse lenses take about 15 minutes to implant under local anesthetic in the eye. Patients can get a sedative to relax them. The Visian is inserted through a tiny incision of up to three millimeters and no stitches are involved. The Verisyse implant involves an incision about twice as big and microscopic stitches that dissolve over time. Both implants are often done one eye at a time, unlike laser surgery, which is often completed in one day.
In clinical trials conducted to gain Food and Drug Administration approval, in patients for whom surgeons aimed for perfect 20/20 vision, 95% of patients treated with the Visian three years after the surgery enjoyed vision quality of 20/40 or better, the level at which it is considered safe to drive without glasses. Of the Verisyse patients, 92% achieved that level of vision at the three-year mark.
With both procedures, there is a small risk of the implant hitting or rubbing the lens of the eye during surgery, causing cataracts. Other risks are tiny tears in the retina and a risk of long-term loss of "endothelial cells," which line the cornea and are needed for vision. So far it isn't known whether this is a significant problem, but doctors recommend you have your cell count monitored annually.
With the larger incision of the Verisyse lens, there's also a small risk of getting a type of blurry vision called astigmatism caused by corneal unevenness. That might mean you'd need glasses, or laser surgery, to correct it. Another caution: If you are over 45 years old, neither the implant nor laser surgery will eliminate your need for reading glasses.
If you aren't in a hurry, it may be worth it to wait a few months to a year for new products. Advanced Medical is developing a foldable version of the Verisyse that can be inserted through a smaller incision. And Starr expects soon to sell a lens that corrects astigmatism and myopia at the same time.
For me, it's the low cost of loving.
I'm not sure what you're talking about is "love". :)
-Y
Member #2041
08-23-06, 17:01
I'm not sure what you're talking about is "love". :)
-Y
It certainly is. The Thai ladies LOVE my money, and it costs me less of it in Thailand for them to love it than in most other places.
Another caution: If you are over 45 years old, neither the implant nor laser surgery will eliminate your need for reading glasses.
Not sure about this. I got Lasik surgery two years ago and have no need for reading glasses. You can opt for 'mono vision' which eliminates the need for reading glasses.
Traveler1234
08-23-06, 19:21
Not sure about this. I got Lasik surgery two years ago and have no need for reading glasses. You can opt for 'mono vision' which eliminates the need for reading glasses.
You might be correct, I know nothing re this alternative procedure. Merely posted as an 'fyi'
You might be correct, I know nothing re this alternative procedure. Merely posted as an 'fyi'
Don't you sleep, man. Or are you waiting for some honey to stop by? I assume you are in BKK.
Traveler1234
08-23-06, 20:23
Don't you sleep, man. Or are you waiting for some honey to stop by? I assume you are in BKK.
Another day in conference room, boring meeting :)
Silent Bob
08-23-06, 22:48
<Warning: this post contains no useful information about mongering, drinking or even eating in Bangkok. Feel free to move on to more topical posts.>
I can say all things considered, I lead a pretty decent life; maybe I travel too much (in the last year, I may have actually spent 2 months here), but that's the nature of my business - besides, I'm well-compensated, and it gives me an opportunity to compare the great cities (and women) of Asia, Australia, and - on occassion - Europe.
Despite this, I'm feeling a bit melancholy. Why is that? I mean, I've just come back from a week in KL, where a perky 25 YO Filipina I found at the Beach Club made for a long, and satisfying late night/morning; the week before that I was in Manila, where a 20 YO Filipina from a place in P Burgois (Ringside? - forget the name now), with a to die-for ass, tiny pebble-like nipples and an oh-my-gawd-tight box had Willie gasping for air; and last night a trip to one of my favorite Soi Cowboy hangouts produced a freebie of similar satisfaction.
Shit, by all accounts, many of my US-based friends would be green with envy. So I should be as happy as pig in shit, eh?
Funny things is, I'm getting a bit disillusioned with LOS - or at least Bangkok. Aside from the couple of regular freebies I get here, all-in-all the P4P scene seems to have gone downhill in the last few years - especially so in the last year, it seems. Way too much pushing for lady drinks. Way too much emphasis on money (yes, I know that's how they make their living), not enough on delivering good service/value.
Maybe it's time to move... have to admit I've had some rockin' times with Filipinas lately, but I hate the Manila traffic and Ninoy Aquino Airport is the frickin' dumps, but I'm beginning to think BKk is not nearly the value it once was...
OK, I gotta go refill my scotch glass, so off the soap box. Carry on.
Cheers,
-YYi Ren,
Funny, I'm sitting in my appartment in Dubai (I'm living there since 18 months) and I have the same thoughts.
In my case it's the typical expat story, years in Eastern Europe, South Africa. Making a shit load of money, getting divorced and then moved to the Middle East. The typical comments from friends or relatives (which are visiting me for a "cheap holiday"): "Hey you're lving in paradise", "great lifestyle", "how to afford this". But they don't see the other side of the medal. Nearly no weekends, working hours, a lot of travel (I agree 100% with you about the Airport and the traffic in Manila) and of course as one of the "high paid expats" you are in a constant competition against local colleagues and everybody expect 150% achievements.
At the beginning everything is new and and exciting, but after a while you get used to the life style, amusements, girls. I had several girls in Dubai, pros and non pros. But I did not find what I was looking for. I had great sex; but that's it. I believe I'm searching for something a p4p girl can't give. Because at the end of the day she is selling an illusion. Just an illusion, nothing more.
I talked with a lot of expats and it seems like most of them (only the singles)have the same feelings.
So I'm considering to move to Asia. Again "on the run".
Cheers
Silent Bob
Yi Ren,
Funny, I'm sitting in my appartment in Dubai (I'm living there since 18 months) and I have the same thoughts.
<...>
I talked with a lot of expats and it seems like most of them (only the singles)have the same feelings.
So I'm considering to move to Asia. Again "on the run".
Cheers
Silent Bob
SB,
Yes, as I mentioned later on, the common feelings may be as much (or more) a result of the *situation*, as opposed to the *location*.
I've just returned from a week in Manila, where I had great times with two non-pros I met in regular bars -- although, since I did give them both "taxi money" (neither asked, and the amount was not "going rate"), I suppose "semi-pro" is more accurate.
This is actually my preferred method of finding companionship, in Phils (and Beijing, for that matter) as you have some time to get a sense of who you are dealing with. In my experience, it's too easy to make bad choices based on first appearances - but maybe I'm just prone to bad choices. :)
At any rate, while I do know enough Thai to take a taxi, go shopping, etc., my command is far from conversational. This is pretty much a non-issue in the Phils: all but the most FOB from remote provinces speak English, making establishing contact with non- (or semi)-pros much easier. And if you want to learn the local language, all the variants of the Phils dialecs are much easier to learn than Thai.
Phils is quite Western, almost American, in many ways. Whereas there is a certain exotic nature of Thai culture which is quite irressistable. Or maybe it's just the old saw, "familiarity breeds contempt". :)
Cheers,
-Y
I just came across this website caled Thai Expat Forum. I don't believe it is a competing forum, so I don't think I'm breaking the rules by posting the address.
http://www.thaivisa.com/358.0.html
It addresses a lot of questions regarding living, visas, traveling, owning land and owning businesses in the LOS.
Maybe it has been mentioned before but I have never seen it in the forum before. Hope it helps someone out.
nocbj4me
LittleBigMan
08-31-06, 01:48
I would like to open this for discussion with some of the most experience guys living in Thailand from the United States.
For over 7 years I have been busting my ass working for months without a day off double shift so I could come to Thailand twice a year for 30 days at a time to be with the family. Now that I plan to retire in the end of October I'm trying to obtain a simple 30 days visa for my wife to meet my mother who is 88 years old before she passes. I was unable to obtain an interview for her this June (my last visit) so it was schedule yesterday. I was not able to attend because of my work schedule.
The interview did not last long and my brother who went with her explained this to me that the interviewer denied the Visa because he felt she needed a stronger tie to her home Thailand. She has a 2 million baht house in Chon Buri under her name, a brand new 900,000 Toyota Vigo truck and land and house in the country in Sukhothai. My brother wife on the other hand was given a Visa only because my brother is retire and has been living in Thailand the last 2 years. The interviewer told my brother if my wife had a business or that I was also staying or living in Thailand she would have gotten the Visa.
Maybe I'm missing the big picture here! I fully understand that the U.S. is concern that they might not come back to Thailand. But I don't see the comparsion of a person owning a small business or myself living in Thailand for most of the year would have a stronger tie to their country than an individual that has a house, car and land!
I could never understand the inner workings of the people who work for our government and I don't mean to offend anyone that might be working for the Embassy that might be a member of ISG reading this thread. I'm sure there is a reason but maybe they have been in Thailand much too long! I'm asking for a 30 day tourist Visa to see my Mom and take a tour to Daiseyland! The last time I look the U.S. was still outsourcing jobs and my employer was happy that they were getting rid of a senior employee and not having to provide a retirment and medical benefits after I leave.
What the hell is there to stay for in the U.S. when I have a house, car, and all the great pussy for a retired guy!
Someone please help me and enlighten me to whats wrong here and how I can straighten it out!
Thank, LBM
Retired Army
09-01-06, 09:59
I would like to open this for discussion with some of the most experience guys living in Thailand from the United States.
What the hell is there to stay for in the U.S. when I have a house, car, and all the great pussy for a retired guy!
Someone please help me and enlighten me to whats wrong here and how I can straighten it out!
Thank, LBM
One never knows what the visa interviewer is looking for in a particular case. The visa office, as the entire local national employee system, is controlled by a Thai style mafia of the employees who have been able to obtain jobs at the Embassy. They grant favours to their family, friends, contacts, friends of friends, etc. But go in with a ligitimate request, such as yours, and you will never know the outcome. I have seen people with connections who I wouldn't let read an American newspaper, much less into my country, get ten year visas. While other very legitimate cases have been turned away because of something that was, or wasn't, said during the interview. Unfortunately, once you have been denied once for a U.S. visa it makes subsequent applications much more difficult.
And you are correct, why live in the U.S. when you have all this going for you in Thailand.
I could never understand the inner workings of the people who work for our government and I don't mean to offend anyone that might be working for the Embassy that might be a member of ISG reading this thread.
LBM, you are not the first and will not be the last to have visa denied. Regardless of what all the people say about the mafia, it is the consular officers who decides whether to grant the visa or not. For most time there is no rationale behind it. Could be he/she had a bad day, didn't get fucked the day before, whatever.
It is a standard practice for a US consulate to deny visas routinely in 2nd/3rd world countries. Especially when it comes to a single young men and women. Now, if you are legally married, and you are a US citizen just apply for a spouse visa and there should be no problem. Also, your presence is very much required there. You cannot depend on her going alone with her relatives as they will consider it as a weak tie/bond between you and your wife if you cannot take the time to be there.
I am speaking from personal experience. No doubt others may have similar or different experiences. As to getting a visa, once denied does makes it harder next time around. Keep at it and you should have it. Good luck.
Retired Army
09-01-06, 19:20
it is the consular officers who decides whether to grant the visa or not. For most time there is no rationale behind it. Could be he/she had a bad day, didn't get fucked the day before, whatever.
Duni, not exactly correct. If the visa interviewer denies the visa outright, then the consular officer isn't involved in the process. If the visa interviewer approves the application then it is forwarded to the consular officer who has final approval. But you are correct that there is sometimes no rationale and the process seems quite arbitrary. Plus, there is no appeal process.
I know some of the Thai visa interviewers and have to say that they are some of the most "untypical" Thai women I have ever met. I don't know if they were born that way or the job changed their personalities for the worst. If you want to get into the "loop" with the visa interviewers and consular officers find someone to invite you to the U.S. Embassy Marine House on Friday nights. Not that it will do any good, but at least you can get insight to the personalities involved.
LittleBigMan
09-02-06, 03:38
Thanks fellows, everything everyone has said is pretty much how I feel! Like a box of chocolate you never know what you are going to get! All indications that I have gotten from my brother was that they told her to re-apply and that both interviewers were Americans! that spoke Thai! I will re-access my situatuon and make sure I can go with her the next time! My last trip in June we were not able to get a interview before I left!
Thanks, LBM
Traveler1234
09-02-06, 03:49
Thanks fellows, everything everyone has said is pretty much how I feel! Like a box of chocolate you never know what you are going to get! All indications that I have gotten from my brother was that they told her to re-apply and that both interviewers were Americans! that spoke Thai! I will re-access my situatuon and make sure I can go with her the next time! My last trip in June we were not able to get a interview before I left!
Thanks, LBM
You should ALWAYS assume that the consular service officer(s) (again always real Yanks) and staff (usually local or imported philippino females) all speak the local language, and speak it well. They all go through intensive language training and are expected to be able to converse with the residents of the country they are stationed in.
Most officers are normal regular people and not assholes - don't ever get into a pissing contest with them - you be at the short end of the stick. OAH is correct re local staff - they get power hungry and are often arrogant. Be polite if refused, walk away and look for alternatives. Remember, chances are you see the same officer next round, or his co-worker.
Retired Army
09-02-06, 14:54
Most officers are normal regular people and not assholes
Yes they are, but their hands are tied by Washington D.C. who makes the rules. If a consular officer lets too many "problem cases" into the U.S. then it can adversly affect their career.
The Traveler
09-02-06, 15:04
LBM,
I don't know about the visa regulations in the US, but if she is your wife (legal marriage not traditional !) then they must issue a visa as far as I know. Didn't you say in the past that you also have a kid ? A kid is a very good and strong argument for returning to LOS.
Insist on having an american consular officer attend the interview. The locals are usually hired due to their language skills. They don't decide if she may get the visa or not, they only do the interview.
And of course it is best if you would accompany her. Bring all documents that may prove that she owns land, a car and so on.
Traveler1234
09-02-06, 15:26
Yes they are, but their hands are tied by Washington D.C. who makes the rules. If a consular officer lets too many "problem cases" into the U.S. then it can adversly affect their career.
i think we're saying the same thing. i meant consuler officers aren't usually like local hired staff, eg assholes. and TT is right, in theory if a bonafide marriage to us citizen, no reason to be denied.
i suspect the denials were because the husband didn't accompany the wife.
i've had few experiences in taiwan and few other asian embassy/consular offices....i am abc and so often first treated as second class citizen :(
once i even scolded a few local hires in chinese because they treated me as a local rather than us citizen. then i spoke in english, with my yankee' accent and told them to get me an officer....when they said not available, i said i want to see Mr. XZY, who was the head of consular services - i knew he was not around that day but the mere fact that she knew that i knew him made them more civil and got what i needed to be completed.
another time my wife had a problem with her passport, and because she speaks english as a second language, also get the asshole treatment from a filipina staff - i then sent off a personal email to the head rather than official letter - because as you rightly pointed out, such letters do get filed in their personnel file and could affect their career. and he did addresss the issue with the local staff in closed door internal meeting.
LittleBigMan
09-03-06, 01:40
I would have prefered to have been there but during my trip in June we were not able to get an interview. The girls at the Embassy gate stated in good english that I did not have to be there and that the interviewer spoke Thai. Having no choice in the matter because I had to return home the next available interview was Aug 30th. When I came home and spoke to my co-worker who is also married to a Thai, I asked was he there when she had interview and he said no. Now our situation is different he was bringing her to the U.S. to live whereas I just want a 30 day tourist visa!
Now I planning in November I hope I will be able to attend the interview to convince the consular that my plans are to live in Thailand. I will bring to them retire documents to verify my story!
Thanks again for your helpful comments!
Retired Army
09-03-06, 08:27
A couple of points:
(1) being married to a Thai does not guarantee her a U.S. visa. I know one person married to a Thai who has been trying for nine months to obtain one. If you aren't married, it's better to get a "sweetheart" visa. If you get married in Thailand it complicates the situation.
(2) you can request the American consular officer attend the interview. But, no guarantee they will. It might just [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off the Thai interviewer by causing them to "loose face" and then you are really screwed.
I work for the U.S. Government and wasn't able to get my Thai GF a visa to accompany me back to the States on my annual leave. Since then, I have been able to get her visas for Australia, U.K. and E.U. so I will try again next year.
Traveler1234
09-03-06, 22:00
I would have prefered to have been there but during my trip in June we were not able to get an interview. The girls at the Embassy gate stated in good english that I did not have to be there and that the interviewer spoke Thai. Having no choice in the matter because I had to return home the next available interview was Aug 30th. When I came home and spoke to my co-worker who is also married to a Thai, I asked was he there when she had interview and he said no. Now our situation is different he was bringing her to the U.S. to live whereas I just want a 30 day tourist visa!
Now I planning in November I hope I will be able to attend the interview to convince the consular that my plans are to live in Thailand. I will bring to them retire documents to verify my story!
Thanks again for your helpful comments!
I sent you pm yesterday and since then have emailed back/forth with a classmate who is quite senior and has 25 yrs in US embassies throughout asia.
Assuming the list of assumptions I pm you are correct, there is no legitimate reason for a denial. A simple letter to the consular officer, outlining you as a us citizen, domiciled currently in thailand, married for X yrs to your wife, and assurance that she is only visiting should work.
LittleBigMan
09-05-06, 22:50
Thanks for the information. As you noted the only reason I was turn down was because my domicle is not Thailand. But when I come in October I will start the process of having my retirement papers in order to show them that now that I am retire I plan to make Thailand my domicle.
LBM VISA's from the US Embassy is a crap shoot. Don't try to figure it out because secretly I think they just take applications and roll the dice. I have gotten > 20 VISA for people mainly at work here, but....
I have one guy with wife, child, house and car. He repeatably had to get 90 day VISA everytime that I needed him to go to the USA for business until the last time this year when he got a 10 year VISA as opposed to a fresh out graduate, no house, no car, no money in the bank, fresh passport and he gets a 10 year VISA straight off.
Desipte what they say make sure you are there for the interview.
Secondly, if you never married in the USA. You can apply for finacee VISA. These are a lot of paperwork, but you can do it yourself and it is automatic, but it takes a good 4-6 months. You get a 90-day VISA of which you have to marry in the USA.
They have two concerns:
1. Not to let terrorists in to the country (Not a big factor for Thai nationals)
2. Make sure you leave the USA and not become a burden on the tax system.
How they apply the rules if highly subjective.
Retired Army
09-06-06, 09:29
Desipte what they say make sure you are there for the interview.
Secondly, if you never married in the USA. You can apply for finacee VISA. These are a lot of paperwork, but you can do it yourself and it is automatic, but it takes a good 4-6 months. You get a 90-day VISA of which you have to marry in the USA.
They have two concerns:
1. Not to let terrorists in to the country (Not a big factor for Thai nationals)
2. Make sure you leave the USA and not become a burden on the tax system.
How they apply the rules if highly subjective.
Yes, definitely be there for the interview. They might ignore you, but at least it shows you are a real person and you care enough to be there. The visa is not automatic; but, I have seen some real "winners" get them. Paperwork for you is time consuming as you have to provide proof of all your personal and financial information. Your girl doesn't have to do much other than provide the basic biographical and demographic information and any proof of previous marriages and divorces, etc.
Another concern of the U.S. Government is morals: they don't want to let someone into the country who will engage in illegal activities such as (gasp) prostitution. Germany has a real problem with women from South East Asia being brought in to work as prostitutes.
As the resident lawyer on the board, I'll add my two cents
Much of the U.S. immigration process is incredibly subjective. I defended guys from deportation who by all definitions should have been booted out of the U.S. But knowing the system, the people and the way to phrase things (i.e. honestly your honor, he thought the drugs were medicinal) go a long way.
The criteria for visas are very straight forward. Does the candidate pose a likelihood of not returning to their home country. A single Thai woman under the age of 35 already has more strikes against her than you can count. And, the people setting the rules know the realities of Thailand (met a few of them around town myself and they know the ropes). They know that 1/3 of
Thai women going to the U.S. are going to overstay, whereas the chances of a middle-aged married man from Russia overstaying is only 1/10.
To better your chances, you need all the things that LBM brought to the table (home, car, etc.), but also you need to know the system and be willing to put your American ass on the front line. If the Visa is for a TGF of an American, the American needs to be there. He is the one with the rights. And, unlike other times in life, he needs to fly the flag high.
Yes, definitely be there for the interview. They might ignore you, but at least it shows you are a real person and you care enough to be there. The visa is not automatic; but, I have seen some real "winners" get them. Paperwork for you is time consuming as you have to provide proof of all your personal and financial information. Your girl doesn't have to do much other than provide the basic biographical and demographic information and any proof of previous marriages and divorces, etc.
Another concern of the U.S. Government is morals: they don't want to let someone into the country who will engage in illegal activities such as (gasp) prostitution. Germany has a real problem with women from South East Asia being brought in to work as prostitutes.
LittleBigMan
09-06-06, 22:45
Thanks guys! The information has been very helpful. My biggest mistake was that I was not able to be there for the interview. It did not seem to be that big of a problem since the ladies stated flatly in front of the Embassy that it was not necessary. Then when I came back to the states and spoke to one of my co-workers who also married a Thai and he indicated to me that he was not at the interviewed in Thailand when his wife obtained her green card! But that was for a different visa! Regardless I'm going online in the next few days to re-apply for an interview in late October or early November. This time I will voice my case and do what it take to re-assure them that we will all return in 30 days to the LOS! This I will keep everyone up to date on!
Thank,
LBM
From the Bangkok Post website:
Visa rules will be tightened to stop abuse
Maximum stay of 90 days for foreigners
By Chatrudee Theparat
Visa-on-arrival (VOA) regulations will be tightened for nationals of 41 countries to prevent abuse of the privilege and curb the rising number of illegal entries, according to the Immigration Police Bureau (IPB). Foreign nationals from those countries, including the US, China and India, will be able to stay longer but with fewer chances of renewing the VOA.
IPB commissioner Suwat Tumrongsiskul said nationals from those specific countries are currently allowed to remain in Thailand for 15 days maximum after the VOA is granted. The VOA is normally renewable once.
However, some foreigners including tourists ''tiptoe around the law'' by resorting to so-called visa runs to extend their stay. Most take a bus to a border, check out of the country and then return the same day to have the VOA renewed.
They repeat the practice as many times as they wish, affording them almost unlimited stay in the country. The policy is largely intended to serve tourism.
Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said the change of the VOA rules is in order.
In future, foreigners from those 41 countries will be able to stay in the country for 30 days from the first VOA stamp, which will be renewable twice at most, each time for a maximum of 30 days. In other words, a foreigner will be permitted to remain in Thailand for no longer than 90 days in total after three VOA stamps.
The commissioner said the current system is prone to abuse as many foreign nationals make numerous visa runs so they can stay on long term to do business. In some cases, they have gone unregulated, causing social problems.
Official figures showed that about 400,000 Chinese nationals were granted a VOA last year, and 18,000 of them have stayed behind.
Around 200,000 Indians made VOA visits last year and it was found that 16,000 of them have not left.
Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said the new VOA rules will be put into effect once approved by the Royal Thai Police Office.
He said more information technology will be employed in the blacklisting system. The IT-operated immigration clearance system is now in use at 15 out of 55 checkpoints nationwide to check in tourists and screen out undesirable individuals. The technology lets the bureau enlarge its database of foreign visitors to identify those on the blacklist and expel them.
Pol Col Ittipol Ittisarnronnachai, head of the Pattaya immigration centre, said its IT-operated database is shared by many hotels and resorts in Pattaya to help track down blacklisted people. The technology has been credited with weakening the local mafia network.
The Betong immigration centre in Yala is also using the system to trace people of dual nationality, some of whom are believed to be behind the southern strife.
Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said more authority to issue visas will be delegated to regional IPB offices.
At present, IPB chief inspectors are authorised to grant visas, and in future their deputies will also be able to approve visa requests
Some might remember a post from me awhile back bemoaning some of the negatives of living in Bangkok. Well, I'm here to tell you, it's not all bad.
I decided to give it a fresh chance: enrolled in a Thai language class (for the cost of 1.5 LTs have made huge progress, compared to my self-study and can actually read a little), starting frequenting regular Thai venues (restaurants, stores and the like) and stayed completely away from the GoGo's.
Life in Bangkok is much better! Have started talking with several regular Thai girls - one I met in a restaurant, the other online (these are long-term projects, I realize); had a *great* time with a FL that I knew from before, but we could actually have some basic conversation; and found an FL stunner (a "spinner" as friend NOCB4ME would say) that rocked my world for two nights, then sent me off on my current trip. Have to say in all the years of mongering, have never found a chick that I wanted hanging around for a 2nd night. And she has tits! :)
The only problem is, after the last two weeks, I'm now in Jakarta and am all worn-out. :)
So far, the only problem I've found is that these 'out of the mainstream' girls are not keen on nude pics. That's OK - I'm working on the 'glamor' pics now. We'll see where that goes.
Cheers,
-Y
Traveler1234
09-13-06, 16:41
Life in Bangkok is much better!
The only problem is, after the last two weeks, I'm now in Jakarta and am all worn-out. :)
Cheers,
-Y
I'd be interested to hear your comparisons and preferences after your long term stay in Jkt :)
I read the post about the visa runs, and I was wondering if you have heard if they are planing on making a minimum time out of country rule. I am thinking of coming to thailand in november or december for an extended period and I was planing on doing the visa runs, but I might need to rethink my stratagy. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
I read the post about the visa runs, and I was wondering if you have heard if they are planing on making a minimum time out of country rule. I am thinking of coming to thailand in november or december for an extended period and I was planing on doing the visa runs, but I might need to rethink my stratagy. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
You can only stay for three months now, then go home for three months before you are allowed to return again. Or you could go to Cambodia or somewhere else nearby for the three month ban period. Or just skip Thailand altogether and go stay in Phnom Penh - things are getting decidedly unfriendly here.
Retired Army
09-15-06, 22:57
Is it really all that bad? For those of us who live here legally: there are a lot of "characters" that need to thrown out of Thailand.
Traveler1234
09-15-06, 23:17
You can only stay for three months now, then go home for three months before you are allowed to return again. Or you could go to Cambodia or somewhere else nearby for the three month ban period. Or just skip Thailand altogether and go stay in Phnom Penh - things are getting decidedly unfriendly here.
The new visa regulations says you can stay a total of 90 days w/in a 6 month period. It does not mean a 3 month ban, per se.
Yes, on one extreme, if you stay 90 consecutive days, you have to wait another 90 days before you can enter again. However it also means you can come in for one week, leave for one week, come in for another, etc. ....as along as within one six months period, you total stay does not exceed 90 days.
Yi Ren's post below is very clear and explains it all.
Is it really all that bad? For those of us who live here legally: there are a lot of "characters" that need to thrown out of Thailand.You are exactly right. I live happily in Hong Kong and would not even want to conisder staying in Thailand 90 days. But I wonder what would happen if you hold 2 passports and swap them. (As a German I can easily get 2 legal passports with the right explanation to the officials). In China or Hong Kong they go by passport number to track and I hardly believe the Thai system is more efficient.
The Traveler
09-16-06, 08:54
As a German I can easily get 2 legal passports with the right explanation to the officials
Tiger,
I doubt that this last loop-hole will remain open for long.
As you know, the new passports will contain a RFID chip which will not only contain personal data, but also fingerprints and and an iris scan of the eye (in a later stage).
But all in all I think it's a good development.
Is it really all that bad? For those of us who live here legally: there are a lot of "characters" that need to thrown out of Thailand.
Yes, it is really that bad. And just to point out - the visa runners were perfectly legal long term sex tourists. The idea that most of them were working in low-wage Thailand is laughable.
As for your assumption that you are somehow a desirable guest and they are not, I will for ever be amazed at such snobbery of one sex tourist to another. We are all brothers Retired, and if you think you aren't next, you are in for a surprise.
First They Came for the Jews
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
The Traveler
09-16-06, 10:58
First They Came for the Jews
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
Opebo,
I agree that everybody should speak out as soon as things take a wrong turn.
But in this case I disagree.
The visa regulations do not depend on your wealth, race, religion or any other attributes. They simply try to close a loop-hole which is absolutely legitimate. Anybody who wants to stay in the Kingdom has to comply to immigration laws, just like in any other country. The Schengen states for example have the very same rules in place, 90 days within 6 six months period. Will you call those states racist ? I guess not.
Just because you may be effected, doesn't mean it's wrong. Better ask yourself why you don't want to follow visa regulations and don't apply for anything different than a tourist visa ?
Is it really all that bad? For those of us who live here legally: there are a lot of "characters" that need to thrown out of Thailand.
Not affected it’s easy to say: Fully agree that this rule is not so bad. It’s not different from other countries as well.
Nobody will be affected, only some special character.
The hidden company residences (I mean the people who use Bangkok as a hub for other business in Asia as well and just didn't bother to apply) can simply apply officially. The same can do the Teachers.
The rich 'long term sex tourists' can find either a way to legalize or switch between countries.
Keeps left the no money people and the people with 'doubtable' business.
And that are the ones Thailand don't want to have anymore. So what’s wrong with that?
regards
Brain666
Retired Army
09-16-06, 11:29
Yes, it is really that bad. And just to point out - the visa runners were perfectly legal long term sex tourists. The idea that most of them were working in low-wage Thailand is laughable.
As for your assumption that you are somehow a desirable guest and they are not, I will for ever be amazed at such snobbery of one sex tourist to another. We are all brothers Retired, and if you think you aren't next, you are in for a surprise.
No, it isn't hubris; it's reality. Thailand is awash with undesirables as evidenced by a walk down Sukhumvit Soi 3. Those of us who live here have to deal with this shit on a daily basis and know how it offends Thai culture and sensibilities. It's about time the government took action. In fact, they are way behind the "power curve" and should have done something about this problem a long time ago.
This action is going to have no effect on the P4P industry because most of the people involved don't come here for more than a couple of weeks at any one time. It is an attempt to get rid of some of the abusers who are involved in illegal activities (re, drugs) and other criminal activities. This has been a long time coming; however, it may be too little too late. It now gives the government pretext to go into the worst areas of Bangkok, check for visas, and clean out the trash.
If someone is serious about living in Thailand then they need to do whatever it takes to live here legally. The same is true for another country, be it, the U.S., Germany or Botswana. It isn’t that difficult and “loop holes” will be found and a whole new industry will develop to exploit them. Believe me, when the land developers start screaming and big money gets involved solutions will be found.
Also, if you don’t draw attention to yourself or cause trouble the effect is going to be negligible. I know guys who have been here since the end of the Vietnam War without visas. They go about their lives and no one gives them a second glance.
And to set the record straight, I have lived and worked legally in Thailand for over six years and I have, for all practical purposes, a Chinese-Thai wife from the higher social strata. So my situation is a little different. I see things from more of a Thai perspective than that of a sex tourist.
Old Thai Hand
09-16-06, 13:17
yes, it is really that bad. and just to point out - the visa runners were perfectly legal long term sex tourists. the idea that most of them were working in low-wage thailand is laughable.
as for your assumption that you are somehow a desirable guest and they are not, i will for ever be amazed at such snobbery of one sex tourist to another. we are all brothers retired, and if you think you aren't next, you are in for a surprise.
this really requires a response. i've read so much crap about this on other thai expat boards, i'm really sick of the whingeing and complaining.
o****
if you had ever read retired army's numerous posts you would know that he is not a sex tourist, but lives and works here (as do i) legally. therefore, he is a more desirable guest in thailand, than these people. somehow, i doubt that he considers himself your brother or the brother of any other punter. although, i could be wrong.
these guys you are so concerned about are here illegally. they are not paying taxes. they're essentially living here for free. your comments about people working in "low wage thailand", just shows you know nothing at all about what really goes on in this country. i know loads of sex tourist/english teachers who are totally illegal. i know of at least one bar owner in soi cowboy who has been doing the visa run thing. loads of bar owners in pattaya are doing the same. they're conducting business, making money and doing so illegally. the law is that, if you are resident here for more than 6 months, you are required to pay taxes, regardless of whether you are retired and living on a pension or running some kind of business either here or offshore. if you are doing business, you are required to get a non-imm b visa and a work permit and pay income tax. it's really not that difficult to sort this all out. the only reason some have not done this is because they are willingly circumnavigating the system for many reasons that all have legality issues big or small associated with them.
retired and i have gone to the trouble of doing every thing by the book, including paying taxes in this country. people who live here on the fringes like so many of these guys are abusing the system, enjoying the benefits of living here without paying for it. retired army's and my taxes are paying for the infrastructure, such as it is that these guys enjoy, without supporting it themselves.
the "long term sex tourists" as you put it are exactly the type of people the thais want to get rid of. contrary to a long-standing myth, especially put forth on numerous occasions on this board, the thai economy would not fall apart if the the farang sex industry disappeared. it actually represents a very small part of the tourist industry. studies have been done that show the social costs of the industry far outweigh the relatively small gains made in this segment of the tourist industry. however, it's not going to disappear because the vast majority of mongers are short hall vistors and they won't be affected.
but for the ones who have been living the good life here without paying for it, the free ride is over.
If you had ever read Retired Army's numerous posts you would know that he is NOT a sex tourist,
Then why does he post upon, and read, this forum for sex tourists, Old Thai? Or yourself, for that matter?
The "long term sex tourists" as you put it are exactly the type of people the Thais want to get rid of.
Oh I'm very sure that is true, OTH. The Thais are quite intolerant in spite of their image. I doubt I have ever met more close-minded, bigoted, prudish snobs than among Thais fortunate enough to have a little money.
But also keep in mind, OTH, that as unpleasant as they are, they are not stupid, and they know that you and Retired Army, for all your protestations, are in fact our brothers, and are, in fact, resident in Thailand for precisely the same purpose we are, even if your 'free' golddiggers aren't quite as honest about their services as our short-time girls. So don't get too comfortable about your visa status old man.
But for the ones who have been living the good life here without paying for it, the free ride is over.
Hah, you again miss the point. I'm sure all of us who are or have been visa runners would have gladly paid some paltry tax - say a couple or a few thousand baht per month - in order to stay long term and avoid the inconvenience of the visa run. After all the typical long term sexpat will have 60-100K/month at his disposal. I always spent about 80,000/month in those days in Pattaya. A 3,000 or 4,000 baht/month fee would be nothing. No, OTH, this is not about avoidance of payment, but rather about xenophobia. The Thais feel they're rich enough now to be open about how much they hate foreigners, just like the Japanese, Koreans, and so forth before them. We'll all have to move on to Cambodia, the Philippines, or Indonesia.
Retired Army
09-16-06, 16:29
Then why does he post upon, and read, this forum for sex tourists, Old Thai? Or yourself, for that matter?
I can't speak for OTH, but I read and post to the forum to help "experienced" Thai travelers like yourself from making complete idiots of themselves.
Old Thai Hand
09-16-06, 16:31
But also keep in mind, OTH, that as unpleasant as they are, they are not stupid, and they know that you and Retired Army, for all your protestations, are in fact our brothers, and are, in fact, resident in Thailand for precisely the same purpose we are, even if your 'free' golddiggers aren't quite as honest about their services as our short-time girls. So don't get too comfortable about your visa status old man.
My GF, and I'm sure Retired Army's wife are anything but golddiggers. You make assumptions about them, which are just wrong and plain insulting. Your brain is so screwed up by paying for it all the time, that you've forgotten that some women actually stay with men for reasons other than money.
I came to Thailand to work and that's what I've done for 9 1/2 years. I was never a sex tourist. Sorry to disappoint, but Retired Army and I are not like you at all in any way.
Rest assured my visa status is quite secure. Here it is all about who you know. So, knowing those "snobs' as you put it comes in handy and I know a lot of them.
Stop your paranoia. Unless you're one of the ones breaking the law, you have nothing to worry about.
The Traveler
09-16-06, 17:33
...
No, OTH, this is not about avoidance of payment, but rather about xenophobia. The Thais feel they're rich enough now to be open about how much they hate foreigners, just like the Japanese, Koreans, and so forth before them.
May I ask where you come from ?
Let's compare the visa regulations of your homecountry to see how xenophobic you and your fellow countrymen are and how much you hate foreigners.
Would like to hear what you do think about those, who use loop-holes and violate the immigration laws of your homecountry to stay there, especially those who also do violate additional laws.
...No, OTH, this is not about avoidance of payment, but rather about xenophobia. The Thais feel they're rich enough now to be open about how much they hate foreigners, just like the Japanese, Koreans, and so forth before them. We'll all have to move on to Cambodia, the Philippines, or Indonesia...Yes guys, do move, everyone !!!! Show them that we don't need them but they need us. And don't return until they offer a deal acceptable to all. Thailand will have to learn the hard way. As long as we throw all the money at them they live to the illusion that they can sit under the tree and wait for the bananas to fall down. At the same time I agree that there are many people in Thailand who don't deserve to be there.
But for the ones who have been living the good life here without paying for it, the free ride is over.
Personally, as a long-standing visitor of Thailand who sees himself as very little of a sex tourist, I can only agree that the Thai authorities have been very lax for a very long time. It is only proper that they enforce the law. Getting rid of the trash is definitely their right.
I am much more concerned about the fact that Thai law is in many cases a tad weird, and as such sometimes difficult to abide with. A case in point is the need of forming a company to buy land and build a house, which makes it necessary to enlist phony partners that are Thai nationals.
Tens of thousands such companies exist, that could be dissolved at any time, should the authorities wish to do so, wiping out years of foreign investment and creating massive havoc, and probably a lot of damage to Thailand's reputation abroad too, but who knows what Thai politicians might do in the future?
Evil Penivel
09-16-06, 19:09
Take this which however many grains of salt you like, but here is the explanation I heard from a friend who works in an embassy in Bangkok. The timing of the tightening of the visa laws is something of a knee-jerk response to the John Karr case to give Thai authorities a basis for claiming they are cracking down on "undesireable" types. According to what my friend was told, the government had been considering such a crackdown on certain "categories" of foreigners for awhile, but the negative publicity surrounding Karr made them move faster. I don't want to spark any debates about racism or moral equivalency, but it was mainly aimed at foreigners involved in the trafficking of women, religious nuts of all stripes, drug smugglers and various and sundry farang and non-farang foreigner scam artists. Neither bar owners nor sex tourists were the original focus.
I have no way of knowing if this is a true or even reasonable explanation, I'm just relating what I've heard.
Evil
Old Thai Hand
09-19-06, 06:25
I have been stopped exactly twice by the police in the last almost 10 years of living here.
The first time was Halloween 1998 when the taxi that my friends and I were in was stopped near RCA and we were asked for our passports. We of course didn't have them. But, since a number of us spoke Thai fluently, they figured we were ok and let us go with a warning.
The second time was yesterday on the grounds of my university. I went to school about an hour earlier than normal and knew something was not right when the gate that I usually enter was locked and under police guard. So, I had the taxi go to the main gate which I usually avoid as even on normal days, one has to pass through 2 security points. Most Thai universities are guarded by one of your standard security guards who loves to blow a whistle every 3 seconds. My university, because it's the Royal university is guarded by police; but, usually only 2 on this gate. But, yesterday, the area was swarming with police, some armed with sub-machineguns. As soon as we approached the first checkpoint, the police looked in, saw me and waved the taxi over. I was immediately asked for my university ID, which I didn't have (I'd left it in the office). Suddenly, out of a nearby Mercedes stepped a police officer, who by the looks of it was at least a colonel. He wore the black armband of a police aide-de-camp for the Royal Household. So, I assumed someone from the Royal family was on campus, which would explain the extra police presence, but not the heavy armour. I produced my ID for another university that helped only a little. But, he still kept asking what I was doing there. Even after telling him that I was a professor there, he demanded (quite rightly, I guess) some proof. I only had a photocopy of my last work permit, not my current one. But, I handed him that, to buy some time while I looked for something else. As he carefully looked it over, I suddenly realized that I had loads of university documents with my name on them, which I was sure would get me out of this situation. But, before I could produce them, his manner suddenly changed, he snapped to attention and saluted me and said, "sorry, sir. You may go through." I couldn't for the life of me figure out what that was all about. Meanwhile, the taxi driver looked back at me as if to say, Who the hell are you?". Then we drove the 50 meters to my building which also had 3 heavily-armed police at its three entrances. I went inside and saw my boss standing there and told her what happened. She then told me that I had just arrived seconds after the entourage of the crown prince's daughter, who studies in the next building. But, she's there every day and I've never seen such a police presence before. However, since the bogus bomb threat against Taksin and more significantly, the bomb blasts in Hat Yai this week, security had been beefed up at any building and for any person, that could be a possible target. I told her about the police colonel suddenly saluting me and she was puzzled as well until she looked at the old work permit and smiled. I asked her, what was so funny. She pointed to a stamp on the last page that I had never bothered to look at before. It said, "In the Service of the Royal Household". I had worked last year in connection with someone in the royal family. But, I was never directly in service to her. I never even met her. But, I guess I was close enough to warrant a stamp in my work permit. However, I was told afterwards by the administration that I am to carry my work permit and/or passport at all times now, just for safety sake.
That is the point of this long story. Although, I'm not sure it will carry over into the checking of tourists, I would suggest that any foreigners here should carry proper ID at all times. With the political situation and the bombing in the south, things seem to be getting a little more tense here.
In a related development...In the wake of the John Karr scandal, immigration police have started raiding schools employing Farang and are checking credentials, especially looking for proper work permits. I was told yesterday that they will also start to target any business employing Farang who they suspect might not have proper working papers. What this means, for example is that bar owners who don't have their businesses set up properly and are still operating on a tourist visa, as so many are doing are likely to be getting some unexpected visitors in the next weeks and months.
Before anyone cries "police state" as so many are on other Thai boards, is the prospect of increased checking here any worse than the vigilante nature of US border patrols or the heavy-handedness of the US customs service at many entry ports there?
before anyone cries "police state" as so many are on other thai boards, is the prospect of increased checking here any worse than the vigilante nature of us border patrols or the heavy-handedness of the us customs service at many entry ports there?
one of my american colleagues has just relocated to london to be the head of our business there. being of spanish heritage he took his wife for a weekend in andalusia and was stopped by immigration on the way back in a british airport (stansted i believe). the british immigration staff were less than civil, probing, questioning, cross-examining and threatening both my colleague and his poor wife, the latter having only a tourist visa in the meantime. both american citizen were held at the airport for hours (on a sunday night!) and eventually released but their passports were confirep001ed and they were summoned to come back to the airport (how convenient!) with proper visa waiver and consular support.
the whole thing makes no sense from an administrative point of view as american citizen can travel in the eu without visa in the first place, but the most worrisome point is that such boorish behavior was displayed in britain towards totally unsuspicious american visitors who are middle-aged, rather well-off, white, christian etc. apparently, some british immigration officials might now be trained by the same people who used to run abu ghraib prison in baghdad.
if that sort of thing can happen to american citizen in britain, then one should be extra-cautious in thailand, where farangs have never been more than just tolerated. i guess that the days or carelessly roaming the world in a bubble provided by western citizenship and white skin are finally over.
Sometime ago thre was report that if a farang, 50+ years, brings in and deposits $50,000 in a Thai Bank, they would be issued a long term visa. Is this still true?
Sometime ago thre was report that if a farang, 50+ years, brings in and deposits $50,000 in a Thai Bank, they would be issued a long term visa. Is this still true?Retirement Visa, the numbers I remember are a deposit of THB 800,000.00 on a bank account, or a proven monthly income of > THB 65,000.00. Then usually a one year visa will be issued and prolonged year by year.
Giotto
PosterLion
09-19-06, 16:23
Sometime ago thre was report that if a farang, 50+ years, brings in and deposits $50,000 in a Thai Bank, they would be issued a long term visa. Is this still true?
FROM THE ROYAL THAI EMBASSY WEBSITE IN WASHINGTON D.C.:
A Residence Permit in the case of Retirement for Person who is 50 years or Over
1. Qualifications for the Applicant.
1.1 An alien being 50 years of age and above (on the date of submitting and application).
1.2 Not being a person prohibited from entering the Kingdom.
1.3 Having no criminal record against the security of Thailand and the country of his/her nationality, or the country of his/her residence.
1.4 Having the nationality of or the residence in the country where his/her application is submitted.
1.5 Not having prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535) (Leprosy, Tuberculosis (T.B.), Elephantiasis, Drug Addiction, Alcoholism, Third step of Syphilis)
1.6 Not being allowed to work in Thailand.
2. Documents for the Application. (requiring 3 sets in original)
2.1 A passport valid no less than one year and a half.
2.2 Three copies of a Visa Application Form (with photos).
2.3 A Personal Data Form.
2.4 A copy of a bank statement showing a deposit at the amount equal to no less than 800,000 Baht, or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly salary of no less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income of no less than 800,000 Baht a year.
2.5 In the case of the bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank (an orginal copy) is to be shown as well.
2.6 Verification stating that the applicant has no criminal record issued from the county of his/her nationality or residence (the verification shall be valid for no more than 3 months).
2.7 A medical certificate issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicatted in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535) (the certificate shall be valid for no more than 3 months).
2.8 In the case that the applicant wishes to have his/her spouse stay together in the Kingdom but the spouse is not qualified for the O-A code
3. Recommendations for the Alien While Staying in the Kingdom.
3.1 When completing the stay of 90 days in the Kingdom, the alien shall report to the competent authority and repeat it every 90 days with the immigration officer in the alien's residence area, or report to the police station in the alien's residence area if there is no immigration control there.
(In order to report to the competent authority by mail, the alien shall do as follows:
- The Report Form (To Mo 47) together with a copy of the passport pages showing the alien's photo, personal details, and the latest arrival visa stamp as well as a self addressed evelop with postage affixed, shall be forwarded, by 7 days before the due date, by acknowledgement of receipt mail to the Immigration Bureau, Sathon Tai Road, Sathon District, Bangkok 10120.
- In the case of conducting any following reports, the Reply Form for the previous report shall be enclosed as well.)
3.2 At the end of the one-year stay, the alien who wishes to extend his/her stay shall submit a request for the extended period at the Immigration Bureau with documented evidence of money transfer, or a deposit account in the Kingdom, or an income certificate, at the amount of no less than 800,000 Baht, or an income certificate plus a deposit account at the total amount of no less than 800,000 Baht a year.
3.3 If the alien's spouse wishes to extend his/her stay as well, the marriage certificate shall be produced.
Greetings Everyone,
I have created a new thread titled "Thailand Politics" for discussing said subject.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=2526
Thanks,
Jackson
PosterLion
09-20-06, 16:44
I'd like to get back to the discussion of the new visa rules. Does anyone have the real "skinny" on these new rules?
My understanding is that a Visa on Arrival (VOA) allows a foreigner into the Kingdom for 30 days and that the new rule allows the foreigner to leave the Kingdom and return a maximum of two times for a total stay of 90 days. What I don't understand is the timeframe of the new rules.
I've heard that the new 90 rule applies for a period of six months and I've also heard one year. I'd like to know the real "skinny" concerning this issue for the sake of understanding. I am in no way affected by the new rules, but valid information is the basis of all good decisions. So . . .
Does anyone know the details of the "new rules?"
===
On a different note, these new rules should not affect the current workings of a normal tourist visa that you purchase before entering the Kingdom. A normal visa expires in 90 days and allows the foreigner to reside in the Kingdom for a maximum of 60 days.
This visa costs 1000 Baht per entry. If a foreigner buys a normal tourist visa (type TR) with two entries it will cost 2000 Baht and allow the foreigner to reside in Thailand for up to 120 days, providing the foreigner steps across the border after the first 60 days has expired.
It seems to me the new rules are not a huge problem. The reality is merely that the foreigner must visit a Thai embassy three times a year and pay 6,000 Baht in order to stay in the Kingdom.
poster . . .
Traveler1234
09-20-06, 17:09
I'd like to get back to the discussion of the new visa rules. Does anyone have the real "skinny" on these new rules?
I've heard that the new 90 rule applies for a period of six months and I've also heard one year.
Does anyone know the details of the "new rules?"
poster . . .
All reports, including flyertalk.com (definitive travel board in states) says time frame is within 6 months. In other words, maximum stay of 90 days within any 6 month period.
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=600424
With the current situation, change of power etc, are we sure these new VOA regulations due to come into effect on the 1st of October are still proceeding ?
Like Posterloin, thankfully i am unaffected.
For those that are affected, (IMHO if you are affected then you should get the right visa, if you can't get the right visa then your obviously doing something wrong, and therefore not really in a place to complain about Thailand making things harder for you) but...
1. you can travel by air to a country not bordering Thailand (and not Singapore or Vietnam), get a 3 month tourist visa, enter Thailand, remain for 90 days and repeat the process every 3 months or
2. After 90 days, do an overland border run and immediately reenter Thailand on a VOA 30 days, repeat the monthly border run after each 30 days until you have had another 90 days (so 3 stamps), then go back to point 1.
All these rules are doing is making sure border runners hitting land crossings every month that have been living here years can no longer do so, quite frankly if you can't afford to exit the country using an alternative method, such as flying, then you shouldn't be here.
I personally support these new regulations, fingers crossed they make a difference.
certainly much has been written about the recent political happenings in thailand. while those of us who live here are not particularly taken aback by the course of events (this has been brewing for some time), it seems the rest of the world is a bit up in arms.
to provide a more mundane perspective of current goings-on, i thought i would offe up this humble report:
tuesday night: a semi-regular companion has arranged to come over, and arrives at about 9pm. a bit of chit-chat, an adult beverage or two, and eventually we're safely esconsed in my bed. <your imagination can take over here, but for a glimpse of this lady, see the photo section.>
wednesday morning: after making sure the "morning salute" was properly serviced, we move to he living room where she has her "naam som" (orange juice), and i have my coffee (peets, from n. calif.).
every tv station has the same program. she says something about "thaksin finished", and i check the international websites. she's pretty nonplussed about the whole thing, saying she needs to leave soon to go with her sister to ayuthaya to visit a wat.
soon after she leaves, and i attend to business (the us doesn't know or care about the recent happenings yet).
wednesday afternoon: i had met a regular (not at all in the business) thai lady last weekend,and she showed up at about 2:30pm, as we had arranged. quickly dispensing with any ideas that she would be cleaning my apartment, we moved on to more fun things. :)
that night we take a short jaunt to silom (two bts stations from my apartment), then have dinner in suriwong. folloowing a great seafood dinner, we walk back to silom and have a thai massage. other than two relaxed-looking uniformed soldiers at a thanon silom street corner, one could not tell a coup had occurred 24hrs previous.
today, if anything, seems even more relaxed. the reports i'm getting are that the hot farang areas (patpong, nana, cowbay, soi 33) are virtually unaffected by the recent events.
now, far be it for me to tell other folks what to do, but i would not be in a position to say anyone should cancel travel plans to thailand -- or bangkok.
take it for what it's worth: ymmv.
cheers,
-y
PHUKET: -- New rules limiting stays in Thailand on “visas on arrival” to 90 days over any six month period were confirmed at a September 15 meeting of Immigration Department Chiefs in Bangkok. The new policy will go into effect on October 1.
In a related development, the Royal Thai Consulate in Penang, Malaysia, has stopped issuing double-entry tourist visas.
Pol Lt Col Pipat Pongpan, an Inspector at Phuket Immigration Office, told the Gazette, “Anyone who has already stayed 90 days on visa-on-arrival permits does not need to worry. We will start counting the days from October 1.
“[Foreigners from countries qualifying for visas on arrival] can come in and out of the country as many times as they like with a visa on arrival, but can stay for a maximum of 90 days in any six month period. If they stay 90 days then they must leave for 90 days before they are entitled to another visa on arrival. They can, however, go and request a tourist visa from a Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate abroad and come back into the country,” he said.
“Extensions above the 90-day limit may be granted in exceptional cases, such as if the tourist is suffering from an illness or involved in a lawsuit,” he added.
“No new investment visas will be issued after October 1. However, existing visas in this category may be extended if the holder still has funds of 3 million baht and is still doing business in Thailand,” Col Pipat said.
Tourist visas are still available, for a fee, at Thai embassies and consulates in neighboring countries. The Royal Thai Consulate in Penang, however, will now issue only single-entry 60-day tourist visas. An official at the consulate said that an order had been sent down from Consul Pramote Pramoonsab to cease issuance of double-entry tourist visas, which allow a total stay of up to 120 days.
Double-entry tourist visas are at present still available in the Thai Consulate in Kota Bharu and Thai Embassy in Kuala Lumpur, however.
A source in the Visa and Travel Document Division, Department of Consular Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA), said that the move by the consulate in Penang is not due to any sweeping changes in MFA policy.
The decision whether or not to issue double-entry tourist visas rests solely at the discretion of each diplomatic mission, the source explained.
--Phuket Gazette 2006-09-21
The spokesman of the coup makers Friday asked Bangkok residents not to be frightened seeing a lot of soldiers moving in Bangkok Friday as new units of soldiers will be deployed to rotate those manning key strategic points in the capital.
Palangkura Klaharn, spokesman of the Council for Democratic Reform under Constitutional Monarchy, said the rotation of soldiers would take place from 9 to 3 pm in Thon Buri near Siriraj Hospital and in Don Muang areas.
The rotation could cause traffic congestion, he said.
The Nation
The below message was on another Thai forum, Jackson and fellow brothers, not sure how this affects this forum, but wanted to mention it.
NOTE TO OUR MEMBERS:
All media was today 2006-09-21 ordered by ICT to exercise censorship of any news critical of the coup-makers and the new military regime. Offenders face up to six months in jail, a fine of up to Bt10,000, or both.
This also prohibit xxxxx to publish such content. We kindly ask our members to refrain from posting sensitive political content. We reserve the rights to delete content that could be dangerous for the operation of our website. We have to do a bit of self-censorship here so we don't get into trouble. Thanks for your understanding.
Admin
PosterLion
09-22-06, 06:30
Good work Sir M.
Thanks for the update.
The development in Penang was something I feared would happen. The mechanics of normal 60 day visas does affect my life in the Big Mango as I have been residing in Thailand using a type "TR" visa for almost three years now.
It's good to know that Penang will be a destination of last resort for me because I don't particularly like spending time in Embassies. Lucky for me that my current multi-entry "TR" visa does not expire until May 2007. I hope that my source for this visa has not dried up by that time, but then, all good things must come to an end.
Maybe I'll end up marrying my girlfriend someday. GADZOOKS! I never thought I'd consider such a thing again. :)
poster . . .
This is the headline of a BBC report on the BBC's website;
Lib Dem MP Mark Oaten has spoken of his alarm at being caught up in the military coup in Thailand.
and then they quote him as saying this;
"Although I was nervous about a military coup, it is completely and utterly calm here in Bangkok, there is no problem at all. We are having a wonderful time."
Is it just me or are the BBC News team becoming a bunch of sensational propaganda spreaders ?
PosterLion
09-22-06, 08:05
Personally, I think this sounds like typical British humour which is more or less incomprehensible to almost anyone that was not born and raised there. And I am sure that is why none of us can deny the superiority of the British. ;)
That was my Oklahoma humour which is probably incomprehensible to almost anyone that was not born and raised there. No offense intended to the British or anyone else for that matter.
As for News teams becoming a bunch of sensational propaganda spreaders, that's always been true, now more than ever. It seems the news teams of the world have followed the lead of Hollywood in the last 10 years or so, especially in the last five years since 9/11.
In essence, they don't report news anymore. That create a more dramatic and exciting news than before in an attempt to pump up their ratings. In the process of adding this drama and excitement the natural biases that lurk in the subconscious of the newsteams shows itself in their finished products.
The American news is red, white, and blue because the audience is red, white, and blue. The news of all the other countries is given in their respective colours as well. And there you have it! Non-biased reporting by very biased people, certainly not impossible don't you think?
:)
poster . . .
Fun Times69
09-22-06, 14:56
If anyone has any idea what this means I'd appreciate it.
นา ใใใฟืห ไ ไรสส ะฟา ห้นไพ ะนเะพ หนนื
Thank you guys
I've tried the online translating software via google and nothing comes close to telling me what its about. I know its not really what this site is about but if someone has a few minutes to ask someone Thai and answer I'd be really grateful as I'm not in Thailand right now and can't ask anyone.
it's pretty much gibberish unless there's a lot of slang in there. The vowels don't line up that way and the "words" just don't seem to be (words)
sort of like if I wrote "ay ay ay feet O Or sat..." (it just doesn't make sense)
Personally, I think this sounds like typical British humour which is more or less incomprehensible to almost anyone that was not born and raised there. And I am sure that is why none of us can deny the superiority of the British. ;)
That was my Oklahoma humour which is probably incomprehensible to almost anyone that was not born and raised there. No offense intended to the British or anyone else for that matter.
As for News teams becoming a bunch of sensational propaganda spreaders, that's always been true, now more than ever. It seems the news teams of the world have followed the lead of Hollywood in the last 10 years or so, especially in the last five years since 9/11.
In essence, they don't report news anymore. That create a more dramatic and exciting news than before in an attempt to pump up their ratings. In the process of adding this drama and excitement the natural biases that lurk in the subconscious of the newsteams shows itself in their finished products.
The American news is red, white, and blue because the audience is red, white, and blue. The news of all the other countries is given in their respective colours as well. And there you have it! Non-biased reporting by very biased people, certainly not impossible don't you think?
:)
poster . . .
And NO BLOOD - "if it bleeds it leads" - gee how can we hold the attention of the world about this "incident"? At least they could have run over a moto-cy or SOMETHING (apparently, other than cleat marks, no damage)
Retired Army
09-25-06, 15:51
Subject: American Embassy Warden Message - Change in Thailand's Visa Policy
Attention American Citizens:
The Thai Immigration Bureau recently announced a change in Visa Regulations that is scheduled to go into effect on October 1, 2006. This change will affect citizens of 39 countries, including American citizens, who are exempt from obtaining a Thai visa prior to entering Thailand. Effective October 1, 2006, American citizens who enter Thailand without a visa will be allowed to stay in Thailand for 30 days per visit as before. However, the total duration of stay in Thailand for American citizens who enter Thailand without a visa cannot exceed 90 days in any six-month period, counting from the date of first entry.
American citizens who wish to remain in Thailand for longer than 90 days during any six-month period will be required to obtain a valid Thai visa from a Thai Embassy or Consulate that is authorized to issue visas. The U.S. Embassy advises all American citizens who wish to obtain a Thai visa to contact the Thai Immigration Bureau for exact visa requirements and regulations. Persons who do not comply with the new visa regulations risk being denied reentry to Thailand at the border.
The U.S. Embassy has been attempting to seek clarifications and additional information from the Thai Immigration Bureau regarding the change in visa regulations. To date the Embassy has been unable to determine whether American citizens who have been in Thailand for 90 days or longer without a visa before October 1, 2006 will be considered to have reached their 90-day limit on October 1, 2006, or whether the 90 days will start from the first time the American citizen crosses the border into Thailand after the new regulation goes into effect. When/if the Embassy receives a definitive answer to this question we will post that information on the Embassy’s web site at: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/index.htm.
On a related note, while most border crossings in Thailand are open as normal, the September 19 coup in Thailand has caused intermittent closures at some border crossings. Border crossings into Burma are primarily affected by these closures, but the Embassy has also received sporadic reports of closures at some border crossings on the Lao and Cambodian borders. American citizens traveling by land to neighboring countries are advised to check at the border crossing point where they wish to cross the border to ensure that the border crossing point is open for business in both directions. Please note that in some instances a border crossing point has been open for business on the Thai side of the border, but closed on the neighboring side.
If anyone has any idea what this means I'd appreciate it.
นา ใใใฟืห ไ ไรสส ะฟา ห้นไพ ะนเะพ หนนื
Thank you guys
I've tried the online translating software via google and nothing comes close to telling me what its about. I know its not really what this site is about but if someone has a few minutes to ask someone Thai and answer I'd be really grateful as I'm not in Thailand right now and can't ask anyone.
it's pretty much gibberish unless there's a lot of slang in there. The vowels don't line up that way and the "words" just don't seem to be (words)
sort of like if I wrote "ay ay ay feet O Or sat..." (it just doesn't make sense)
Actually it makes perfect sense, IN ENGLISH !! basically whoever typed this, typed on a Thai keyboard but they typed in english, so basically match the Thai characters to the english letter and you get this sentence
"Ok …answ will tak showr togtr soon"
so basically the message is saying that they will take a shower together soon.
Now FT69, as you're not in Thailand we can only assume that shower won't be with you. Why don't you tell us more about where this message came from. Come on, give us another "But she was different" story :D Just kidding with ya, seriously, tell the story.
Subject: American Embassy Warden Message - Change in Thailand's Visa Policy.....To date the Embassy has been unable to determine whether American citizens who have been in Thailand for 90 days or longer without a visa before October 1, 2006 will be considered to have reached their 90-day limit on October 1, 2006, or whether the 90 days will start from the first time the American citizen crosses the border into Thailand after the new regulation goes into effect....http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/index.htm..Thx, US Embassy officials for looking out for your citizens at least this time. The 2 visa-run operators I called are mum about the subject, but the Thai Immi on Phuket (Chalong harbor) says they will start counting the 90 days in limit on Oct 1. But this does not seem to be a nationwide policy. Just to be sure, make one cautionary visa run on Oct 30th to give you a 1 month reprieve. Then keep in touch with actual visa-runners to find out the actual situation on the borders.
The crossing at Ranong harbor seems to be still closed, supposedly several hundred ferangs and Thais are stuck in the Andaman Club resort and casino on the Burmese island off Ranong. Talk about a "golden cage"!
Actually it makes perfect sense, IN ENGLISH !! basically whoever typed this, typed on a Thai keyboard but they typed in english, so basically match the Thai characters to the english letter and you get this sentence
"Ok …answ will tak showr togtr soon"
so basically the message is saying that they will take a shower together soon.
Now FT69, as you're not in Thailand we can only assume that shower won't be with you. Why don't you tell us more about where this message came from. Come on, give us another "But she was different" story :D Just kidding with ya, seriously, tell the story.
Slapping head with loud "DOH!" that was too simple
Hi I'm Australian, and I'm thinking of buying a property in pattaya? Has anyone here ever bought a unit (condo) here? Alot of the places on offer are a great price.....Any advice people can give me can be helpfull. Is it much of a hassle, downfall involved. Any web sites that can offer advice
Thanks Dan
Phantomtiger2
10-02-06, 18:50
, downfall involved.
Thanks Dan
Downfall:
Many more condo will be on the sale block soon as Thailand will be closing some of the loopholes for foreigners trying to overstay. Max time allowed will only be 90days stay before you must leave LOS. Unless you are allowed permanent status or retirement status in LOS getting a condo is not a good idea for now unless the rules changes. Best to just rent a place for as long as you need and not buy.--IMO
PT
Enormous shakeup of visa and immigration rules
Most farangs will be affected
What began as a restriction on the number of 30 day visas on arrival has turned out to be a major reshuffling of immigration regulations, most of which were framed as far back as 1979. The new rules apply to short term and long term tourists and farang residents and cover yearly extensions of various types, investment visas and even work permits.
The fact that it was announced on September 24 that the national immigration bureau chief lieutenant general Suwit Thamrongsrisakul has been transferred to an inactive post is not thought to have any bearing on visa matters. None the less, Pattaya Today stresses that the changes described below were accurate as of September 26, when we went to press, with an anticipated implementation date of October 1.
“Living” in Thailand on 30 day visas.
As previously announced, it will no longer be possible to “live” in Thailand simply by travelling to the border of a neighbouring country and receiving indefinitely the 30 day visa on arrival.
In future, foreigners will only be able to “live” in Thailand on visas on arrival only for up to 90 days (three months) in any 180 (six months) day period. Effectively, this means three consecutive runs to the border post (30+30+30) are the limit. The most commonly used border posts for Pattaya based visa runners are Aranyaprathet, Pong Nam Ron and Pailin in Cambodia.
Foreigners wishing to go on “living” in Thailand for the next three months would need to obtain a prior tourist visa at a Thai consulate or embassy in another country – not at a border post. The most likely destination for the budget traveller is Penang where the Thai consul general is currently awarding single entry tourist visas. These used to be valid for a stay of up to 60 days but from October 1 they are valid for a stay of 90 days. They cannot be extended.
The presumption is that, after that 90 days has elapsed using the Penang visa, foreigners would then be free to take visa runs to the Cambodian border for a further three months (30+30+30) before needing to return again to Penang or wherever
Foreigners travelling to Penang are advised to go and return by air. Some travellers have experienced difficulties on the Thai side of the Malaysian border when trying to return by train, even with a new visa.
The immigration bureau has confirmed that there is no limit to the number of 30 day visas on arrival for an individual, provided that he or she is “living” not in Thailand for longer than 90 days in any block of 180 days.
The logic behind the new rules about visas on arrival is to discourage their use as a kind of cheap residence permit.
Extensions to 30 day visas.
In an important new ruling, the former 15 day extension of a 30 day visa on arrival at Thai immigration offices has been changed to 7 days only. You may also have a 7 days stamp placed in your passport if the immigration authority refuses your application for a retirement or married man’s visa or if you are deemed to have made too many visa runs to the Cambodian border. If you get such a stamp, you must quit Thailand within one week or risk arrest for overstay.
Abolition of investment visa.
This visa allowed foreigners to reside in Thai for a year provided they placed 3 million baht in a Thai bank or in bonds. It was often used by foreigners under 50 who did not yet qualify in age for a retirement visa but wished to be based in Thailand. The understanding is that existing applications and renewals will be accepted, but that no new applications can be made from the beginning of October 2006.
The so called retirement visa.
This allows foreigners aged 50 and over to extend a non-immigrant visa for up to 12 months from the date of the last entry into Thailand. It requires either 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or a combination of cash in the bank and proof of pension paid in the home country. A letter from the respective embassy is required for proof of pension. From now on, the immigration officer will need to see proof that the 800,000 baht has been there for three months prior to the visa being issued. This is to stop the practice of moving money into a bank account, and promptly out again, once the visa is granted.
The old regulation, however, that you must produce an annual medical certificate for this visa has been withdrawn.
The so called married man’s visa.
This allows the foreign, legal spouse of a Thai national to extend a non-immigrant visa for up to 12 months from the date of the last entry into Thailand. The minimum cash in a Thai bank is 400,000 baht. As with the retirement variant, checks will be made in future to ensure that the cash is not simply put in a bank and then removed. This visa is issued in Bangkok only and, during the waiting period, checks can be made by immigration police at your bank to see if there has been a big cash withdrawal! If the funds have disappeared, you may be ordered to leave Thailand in 7 days. Local immigration officers will also visit your home to verify that you really do live together as man and wife.
Work permit regulations.
We are advised that work permits with the term “Consultant” in the title will not be accepted in future. It is felt the term is too vague and potentially condones work related activity contrary to the alien labour act. Obviously, work permit holders need to consult their lawyers about the detail.
Those applying for work permits for the first time will first require a non-immigrant business (type “B”) visa from a Thai consulate or embassy abroad. This will only be granted if the applicant has a Wp3 work permit receipt form from the Labour Office, photocopy of all limited company registration papers, all official paperwork showing company stamp, invitation letter from the limited company advising on your potential role and stating salary, photocopy of your passport, two passport size photos.
Multiple entry visas.
Many Thai consulates in the Pacific rim, specifically Penang, have now issued statements that they will issue only single entry visas in future. This ruling is irrespective of type. However, if foreigners choose to return to the country of their passport (say Europe, USA, Australia) they may find that multiple entry visas, both tourist and non-immigrant, are still being awarded. The reasoning seems to be that if you need a double, triple or multiple entry visa, then go back to your own country.
-- Pattaya Today 2006-10-02
Phantomtiger2
10-05-06, 02:13
Enormous shakeup of visa and immigration rules
Most farangs will be affected
-- Pattaya Today 2006-10-02
Thanks Meaty,
Suggest everyone thinking of staying long time in LOS read what Meaty had posted, will save you alot of trouble.
So anyone thinking of buying condo and staying beyond 90 days is too troublesome and complicated and not worth the trouble.--IMO
PT
Downfall:
Many more condo will be on the sale block soon as Thailand will be closing some of the loopholes for foreigners trying to overstay. Max time allowed will only be 90days stay before you must leave LOS. Unless you are allowed permanent status or retirement status in LOS getting a condo is not a good idea for now unless the rules changes. Best to just rent a place for as long as you need and not buy.--IMO
PTThe Condos will increase about 80 per cent in the next year. As the rich Thais from Issan and the rest of country buy in Bangkok. We forget the the Thai are very rich Remember they just tell stories to get money from us. Many bar girls have millions of Baht in the Bank. Now is the time to buy.
Phantomtiger2
10-05-06, 18:13
. Now is the time to buy.
Agree only if you are Thai or have foreign long term visa granted. Prices will initially go down as more units flood the market so good time to buy. Conclusion: Buy if you live there but if only a visitor on visa runs--forget about it.
PT
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