Rio de Janeiro - Crime & Safety [Archive] - Page 2

El Austriaco

12-01-04, 04:01

Just came back from Rio in mid-October after a somewhat accidental three-and-a-half months trip, and since, it’s been interesting comparing my notes and experiences with some of the trip reports and security caveats in this section. So here it goes, my personal primer for someone new to Rio:

Keeping a Low Profile

Dress down, like the locals. In particular, this means no jewelry, gold, or expensive watches – not even fake ones. Avoid T-shirts imprinted in foreign languages that may easily identify you as a tourist. No expensive brand apparel. If you’re in Copa trying to impress the girls by how cool you dress, think about it twice. Number one, there’s no need to (it’s all P4P, anyway, and it will only drive up the price). Go to one of the downtown markets (like Urugaiana, right outside the Uruguiana metro station), buy local T-shirts (soccer shirts, for example), havaianas, shorts, a cheap plastic watch, and sunglasses. Once locals start commenting that you exactly dress like a local, you know you’re on the right track. I can’t even recall how many tourists I have seen in Copacabana that I could immediately qualify as a foreigner just based on how they dressed. It’s inexpensive to dress like the locals. And it greatly adds to your safety. No reason not to do it.

Watch the locals, act like the locals. Can’t recall how many tourists I’ve spotted even before I saw them based on just how loud they were – especially Americans. Of course, speaking the local language rather than English helps a lot in that department, but just lowering your volume in line with the local standard helps a lot, too - with or without Portuguese language skills. Doesn’t make you an adopted Brazilian, but may just be another element contributing to your personal safety.

Don’t boast about how rich you are, and don’t show it. Don’t mention how much you make, how successful you are, what you can afford, etc., in any language. Again, in Copacabana, there’s no need to. If you want to flash your cash, go elsewhere. Copacabana attracts thugs because rich people live there. Tourists are very rich by local standards, and many are relatively inexperienced, also, again by local standards. You might already be attracting lots of attention by the wrong people – you want to encourage even more?

Money Matters

ATMs. Only open until 10 PM (except at the airport; I have also heard of, albeit not used, a 24-hour ATM in Copacabana, but you can only get a 100 Reais per transaction, apparently). Do your transactions during daytime hours only. If for whatever reason, you’re in a bind and have to go after sundown, don’t go alone, or at least have a cab driver waiting for you. Also, go to different locations at different times at irregular intervals, just not to become too predictable. In Copacabana, Citibank at Figueiredo Magalhaes/A.N.S. de Copacabana (right next to the Blockbuster) works just fine, and every Banco do Brasil along A.N.S. de Copacabana has at least one or two which accept international cards - I can specifically vouch for US cards; I have used them at three different ones. HSBC also has a few machines that are linked to the international network. Banco do Brasil on Siqueira Campos has also worked for me. One more note regarding ATMs: don’t ever accept any help from strangers when operating an ATM – they are just as user-friendly as anywhere else, the menu is available in English, there’s no need for any assistance. If your card gets swallowed, call your company IMMEDIATELY and inform them not to authorize any transactions until you call them back in person to say you’ve recovered your card. Even better: avoid using ATMs on the weekends, or whenever banks are not open and can not be contacted right there and then. Cards do get swallowed in Rio – I’ve experienced it twice.

If possibly, bring at least some Reais from home. If that’s too much of a hassle, bring a couple of hundred dollars as an emergency fund – many tourist places will change them in case you’re in a bind.

Dealing with People

Don't take strangers you've just met back to your hotel room. Say that your hotel does not allow visitors and go to a love motel. Everybody you’re likely going to take back with you knows exactly where to find them. If they don’t, chances are they have ulterior motives. Even better, don’t even mention which hotel you’re staying at. Do your own research and suggest your own love motels. For Help and Meia Pataca, there is one on A. N. S. de Copacabana that seems to be close (the name eludes me at this time), and for Balcony, it’s Hotel Lido (35 Reais for 2 hours; Rua Ronald de Carvalho) or Diplomata (right next to the tunnel to Rio Sul on Princesa Isabel, on the Copacabana side; 50 Reais for 2 hours). Just don’t get cheap on this by wondering why you should you pay for another hotel if your place is companion-friendly, anyway. If you’re in Copacabana playing, you’re paying a lot of money anyway, by Brazilian standards (not by American ones), so the extra charges should not do any major damage – while, at the same time, greatly increase your safety level. And if you still do take someone back to your hotel (like for the TLN experience), just be very very careful, and use the safe at all times for stuff you can’t afford to lose.

Do not leave your drink unattended anywhere. Before you go to the bathroom, finish your drink, and order a new one once you return. Boa Noite Cinderella (Good Night Cinderella) has been documented very well, and it still works like a charm in Rio. Just don’t accept any drinks offered by strangers, or any chewing gum, candy, or even cigarettes - they might contain quite powerful drugs. The way it works is more or less like this: once you’ve passed out, you will require assistance by someone to take you back to your hotel, and this seemingly nice person will coincidentally have access to your personal belongings while you are out stone-cold. This trick seems so old that I actually wondered how anyone could still fall for it. Then I saw it happen to two tourists at my hotel the last week I was in Rio. They lost some 700 Reais in the process, and one of the two got pretty beaten up, too (apparently from a fall he took). This is not an urban myth, this is real.

Simply ignore the vendors. Street vendors can be pushy and annoying at times, although I’ve seen worse in other parts of the world, both in terms of sheer numbers and persistence. In most cases, just ignoring them in the first place and avoiding eye contact will do the trick. If they insist, just keep ignoring them, and ultimately, they’ll leave you alone.

Areas

Stay in the Zona Sul. Unless you are going with someone you REALLY REALLY can trust. There are really only two situations I can think about that require you to go to the Zona Norte. 1. To get to and from the airport, take a cab. 2. To go to a soccer game at Maracanã (optional of course, but such a cool experience that it is pretty much a must in my book), take a guided tour, which can be booked at any travel agency and in any hotel (between USD 15 and 20, roughly). Done it about 5 times, no problem whatsoever. One more thing about Maracanã: if it’s a Rio team against a non-Rio team, wear the local team’s jersey, or something less conspicuous. If it’s a Rio derby (like the (in)famous Fla-Flu), don’t wear any team jersey, or perhaps a national team shirt, or something entirely neutral. When I saw Fla-Flu, I had a Flamengo jersey sitting smack in the middle of all the Fluminense supporters. Rivalries between specific soccer teams run very deep in Rio, so don’t get caught in the middle. Don’t risk being seated in the wrong section – it can get rough at times. So keeping a low profile applies here, too.

Think twice or more about taking favela tours: apparently, there have been good reviews of organized favela tours (I only know about tours of Rocinha and another, smaller favela), and the first time I was in Rio in 2002, they were widely advertised, although I didn’t have time to take one. This time, when I was really interested, they were no longer widely advertised - my hotel had a sign saying that they had been suspended indefinitely. Ultimately, I did see occasional advertisements for them, so I can’t positively confirm that they are no longer running; I never did call any them. The 3+ months I spent in Rio this time, however, I can definitely confirm major news stories in reputable media (O Globo, Jornal do Brasil) about major police crackdowns in Rocinha, shootouts between rival gangs, and an outright gang war between Vidigal and Rocinha since the Easter week, more or less, all of them resulting in multiple deaths. I am kind of an adventurous guy, but considering this information, I just couldn’t convince myself to go – for the moment being. Just last week, I read about another incident between rival gangs in Vidigal and Rocinha which required police intervention, as a result of which Avenida Niemeyer (linking Sao Conrado and Leblon) was closed down for an hour. Source: Folha Online, which has a special section on "Tension in Rio" (of course, in Portuguese only: http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/especial/2004/traficonorio).

Don’t ever ever even consider going into a favela by yourself. As a matter of fact, the favela might be giving you a first taste of itself in more ways than you think anyway in Copacabana or in the Zona Sul: in the form of aggressive sellers, pushy girls, thieves, robbers, and drug dealers roaming the streets and the water-front. Or simply due to their vicinity. This time, I stayed in the Bairro Peixoto area of Copacabana, a very nice, very family-oriented, residential neighborhood. Still, I could hear occasional gunshots from the close-by favelas, announcing arrivals and departures of drug shipments or police incursions (as explained to me by the locals). As reported in a major news story back in August, a main thoroughfare had to be closed for a couple of hours in Copacabana as a result of an hour-long shootout between cops and bandidos, and a waiter was hit by a stray bullet. Don’t even think about it.

Transportation

Learn how to use the Metro. It’s easy (there’s really only one line where you want to go), inexpensive (2 Reais per ride), very safe, and gets you pretty much wherever you need to go as a tourist (Zona Sul) at a fraction of a cab rate. If you’ve ever taken a subway anywhere, anytime, there’s nothing easier than using the Rio metro.

Cabs. After dark, always use cabs, no matter how short the distance. One of the ex-pats I know in Rio would always use a cab from Help to go to his apartment at night, which is no more than a 2 minute walk away. So if you’re worried about the extra few Reais you might spend, don’t go to Rio in the first place. In hotels, have the reception arrange a cab for you. In the street, take only licensed cabs, no pirate ones, and always insist on using a meter (taximetro) Not using a meter is illegal in Rio, and cabbies can lose their license over it. If a cabbie doesn’t want to use one, just walk away and hail down another cab. Ask whether they will use a meter BEFORE you get into a cab - don’t just get into the cab and assume that the driver will use it. I have had several arguments with drivers about this: once, I got out, but the driver took off before my girl could get out completely, slamming her in the middle of the street (fortunately, she ended up with nothing more than a bruised knee) The second time, the driver took me to my hotel, then got upset and tried to physically attack me - until my girl floored him with a nice upper cut. The thing is, not using a licensed cab that uses a meter in Rio is not only more expensive, but also quite possibly more dangerous. No reason whatsoever to do it. BTW, according to O Globo, starting this Thursday, cab drivers are officially authorized by the City of Rio de Janeiro to use fare rate 2 (bandeira 2), which is generally only used in the evening and during the night, at all times, regardless of time of day and area. This rate 2 will remain in effect until December 31. So if cabs seem a bit more expensive right now, everything's OK - your cabbie is NOT trying to rip you off. Source (in Portuguese): http://oglobo.globo.com/online/plantao/147267051.asp

Do not take regular buses alone. The metro is very convenient, and regular taxis are quite inexpensive, especially when traveling with several people. After hearing countless stories from locals about buses being held up, I just gave up on the concept. I have taken collective vans to São Conrado and Barra during the day, and not alone, and had no problems. To do so, however, you have to at least speak a smacking of Portuguese.

Don’t rent a car. Considering the cost of Metro tickets, the convenience of cabs, the relatively short walking distances within Copacabana, and the ready availability of cheap excursions to other areas you might want to visit (Búzios, Parati, Angra dos Reis, Petrópolis, etc.), there’s just no need for it – and I never have. Throw in the fact that many drivers in Rio believe themselves to be the latest reincarnation of the late Ayrton Senna, and you get my point. This includes cab drivers, too - I've been involved in two minor cab accidents. Just to illustrate the insanity of traffic.

Don’t jaywalk. Traffic in Rio can be quite scary at times, and I’ve seen incredible displays of aggressive driving and near-hits of others cars and pedestrians. In particular, I’ve always found it quite a challenge to cross Avenida Atlântica, between getting across the bicycle/roller-skating lane and then stand on a slim ledge waiting for the light to turn green. Some intersections have crossings only on some sides, not all of them. Be careful.

Scams

If someone seemingly accidentally spills something on you, and ever so kindly offers to clean up the resulting mess, just walk away – there may be someone waiting to rob you while you’re distracted. This is another well-documented set-up (including on this board).

Overcharging is common in restaurants, so always check your bill. If you think something is amiss, just ask for the menu again, verify prices, and point out the error. More likely than not, they will quickly fix the error. Sometimes, it might actually be just an innocent error – many waiters are really bad a math, or unorganized, and yes, they do make mistakes in your favor, too. Not often, but still. Also, it's common to automatically include a 10% tip in checks, so there's no need to tip extra. BTW, this 10% tip is NOT compulsory - so if you're unhappy with the service, there's nothing they can do if you're unwilling to pay it.

Police Matters

Carry along a photocopy of your passport, including your entry card, in case you are asked to show some ID. Some Rio ex-pats have told me that they get a copy certified at a local notary’s office for a minimal charge. Except for banks, this is accepted everywhere – including by the police. Sounds good to me.

If you get stopped in a police blitz, don’t panic. Blitzes happen often, mostly late at night on weekends, and preferably on roads that are known as routes for drug trafficking; I’ve also seen several coming from downtown, in the Flamengo area. Once, I got stopped in São Conrado while traveling in a cab. There were at least three police cars present, with a minimum of six police officers. The area was well-lit, and the entire search of the cab and my person was done in the presence of at least two cops and witnesses at the same time. Everything out in the open, very legal, no problem whatsoever.

Although the Rio police is reputed to be very corrupt, in case there seems to be some sort of trouble with them, do not offer a bribe, which could make things much much worse for you. Cops that are looking for a quick hand-out are generally rather open about offering a quick fix and will take the first step in asking for the cervejinha (tip). Once, I was stopped at night, after attending a concert, in a cab at Ilha do Governador, out by the airport, in a pretty dark street. There was only one police car, only two cops, and they insisted on talking to me separately from the girl that was with me, then proceeded to interview her, with me waiting in the car. As she later told me, they alleged that my copy of the passport was not good enough, and that they would have to fine me. She said well, let’s go to the next police station to sort it out. They quickly offered to just forget about the matter with a small tip, she said no, let’s go to the next police station. They said OK, you keep half of his fine, she said no, let’s go to the next police station. Didn’t pay anything, and they let us go, ultimately. Compare this to the legal blitz described above, and you’ll clearly see the difference.

Here are some additional (and more general) rules that go a long way wherever you are traveling, and particularly so in Rio:

If you can’t possibly afford to lose something, don’t bring it on your trip. You’ll be surprised how little you need it if you don’t have it with you.

If you absolutely have to bring something on a trip, and losing it represents a major, major hassle, it belongs in the safety box of your hotel room. Use the safe at all times, and make sure you know exactly where the key is – again, at all times.

If the shit hits the fan and you are approached by some criminal, try and keep calm. Don’t fight back - he or she may be armed, on drugs, or become violent fairly easily. Whatever you have on you, just give it up. You certainly have so much more to lose than he or she does. Just ain’t worth it.

Don't get involved with the drug scene, even if you believe you know what you're doing. Rio is a big, major drug-trafficking center, and in all likelihood, you don’t know what you’re doing. And getting drunk to the point of losing control also isn’t exactly a grand idea, either.

Do not take along more cash than you need. Most restaurants and stores in Copacabana take CCs, anyway, and you can use your debit card at selected banks (partial list posted above).

Do carry a little bit of cash on you at all times, however, even if you don’t think you’ll need it, just in case you’re being robbed. At least, there’s something that you can give a potential robber. 50 Reais should more than suffice.

Avoid dark or off-the-beaten-track areas where you’re alone – especially at night. It doesn’t get more common sense than this, but just to be on the safe side, I thought I’d repeat it here.

If you’re walking, walk with a sense of purpose as if you knew where you are going to. Even better: know where you’re going. Get a good map and familiarize somewhat with your whereabouts. Get your bearings. This also works surprisingly well with cab drivers when you’re able to give them specific instructions on how to get somewhere rather than just mentioning an address. And you won’t get ripped off.

Don't carry your camera swinging from your hand - wear shoulder straps. Even better: carry it in a local shopping bag, and flash it as little as possible.

Only carry cash and cards, and no wallet at all. If you have to carry your wallet for whatever reason, keep it in your front pocket at all times.

To sum things up: Rio is a big city in Latin America, and as such, it has big problems. While there's very little you can do in terms of how safe Rio is for everyone, there's a whole lot you can do to make it very safe for YOU in particular while you are down there. In other words, how the safety issues which certainly exist in Rio will affect your personal experience ultimately depend on you. Hope this helps!

My two Brazilian centavos...

El Austriaco

Vinni100

12-03-04, 03:15

Great post! I thouroughly agree with all of it. I have had many experiences in Copa and I am glad I used common sense. I am not a frequenter of Help, but sometimes I go there with a group of people. I always take cabs because I hate walking anyway! I stay in Leme usually. And I eat at the resturants close to home. I sometimes visit Rio Centro and go to the kerioke bar orm have drinks at some of the bars, but I have people with me. I know alot of Brazilians and have met so many more each time I go. I tend to attract regulars with jobs similar to mine, so no harm there.

As far as hookers? I really don't care for them too much cause I get locals for free. Just me!

El Austriaco

12-03-04, 08:33

Hang-gliding is widely advertised in Rio as one of the most popular outdoor activities, and a quick google search reveals dozen of websites offering the Rio traveler opportunities for tandem flights. The website of a former Brazilian national champion contains the following statement as a part of the FAQ section:

“Is it safe to fly a hang glider?

Yes, because with the experience of our pilots together with constant and proper maintenance of our gear. Also the numbers speak for themselves there are about 10.000 tandem flights done, in Rio, every year with no accidents!!”

No accidents? Well, let’s see whether you knew any of the following…

1. Did you know that, as of November 12, 2003, hang-gliding was temporarily halted by the authorities in Rio pending the outcome of an investigation of a fatal accident involving a pilot and a female tourist from Manaus, Brazil? According to the report published by the A.B.V.L. (Brazilian Hang-Gliding and Para-Gliding Association), the accident was caused by a structural collapse of the hang-glider, which lead to breakage and “closing” of the equipment when the pilot executed a turn in close vicinity of the landing area at a height of approx. 100 m. The pilot and his client hit some rocks and ultimately dropped into the sea. This report was published on November 17, and hang-gliding resumed afterwards. A quick Google search for “Valtinho +asa +delta +Janeiro” will bring up numerous online articles about this incident. To read the full accident report (in Portuguese): http://www.abvl.com.br/relatorioacidente.htm

2. Did you know that, on January 19, 2004, another hang-gliding accident occurred which involved the boyfriend of well-known Brazilian actress Carolina Dieckman, a certain Thiago Worcman, who was slightly injured in the process. Not surprisingly, considering that the persons involved were celebrities, this story was widely reported in the Brazilian news. According to information provided by the Firefighters Corps, the hang-glider fell onto the American school located on the Gavea road. The very same day, another hang-glider made an emergency landing on Pepino beach, with the pilot knocking over some stands. The pilot walked away with nothing more than scratches and bruises. Unbelievably, still on the very same day, a paraglider suffered an accident as he got stuck in a tree. Source: http://www.pernambuco.com/diario/2004/01/19/brasil4_0.html

3. Did you know that, on January 25, 2004, two people were injured by a landing hang-glider on Pepino beach? And that on the same day, a parachutist was forced to launch the reserve parachute to make an emergency landing in Barra da Tijuca? Source: http://www.estadao.com.br/agestado/noticias/2004/jan/25/57.htm

4. Did you know that, on June 28, 2004, another serious accident occurred during a tandem-flight from the same Pedra Bonita ramp above São Conrado? An Austrian tourist suffered a broken pelvis after the hang-glider hit a tree shortly after take-off. Following a physical examination of the victim at the Instituto Medico-Legal (Forensic Institute) of Rio de Janeiro, this incident is currently being investigated by DAET (Special Tourist Service Department) of the Civil Police in Rio de Janeiro for possible “culpable and/or negligent bodily harm”. Also, the pilot was suspended for a period of 30 days by the A.V.L.R.J. (Hang-Gliding and Para-Gliding Association of Rio de Janeiro), with the option to serve 15 days of compulsory suspension and pay a fine in the amount of 1500 Reais. Yep guys, that’s fifteen hundred Reais.

6. Did you know that, according to the president of the A.V.L.R.J., even in case a pilot holds the required third-party liability insurance, in most cases, insurance coverage is limited to amounts as low as USD 1000? That’s one thousand dollars, folks. As a matter of fact, while the A.B.V.L. does require third-party liability insurance, no minimum coverage amounts are specified. The current regulations for tandem flights can be downloaded from the A.B.V.L. website (http://www.abvl.com.br, the link to the download is at the very bottom of the page, under “Nova Regulamentação para Vôo Duplo”. In Portuguese only.

7. Did you know that there are no accident statistics available regarding hang-gliding in Rio de Janeiro, as far as I can see? The Department of Civil Aviation of the Brazilian Ministry of Aeronautics, the government agency in charge of supervising and regulating both hang-gliding and paragliding, certainly doesn’t publish anything specifically relating to hang-gliding or para-gliding on their website (http://www.dac.gov.br/estatisticas/estatisticas9.asp.) And on the website of the A.B.V.L., no numbers are forthcoming, either. You can check http://www.abvl.com.br/acidentes.htm. Both websites are in Portuguese, only.

Based on the above, I feel more than confident to say that tandem hang-gliding in Rio de Janeiro is definitely NOT such a piece of cake as many people would make you want to be believe, and statements of zero accidents like the one quoted above are nothing more than outright lies and extremely misleading. The truth is, accidents have happened with tourists, including very serious ones and a fatal one. All of the above refers to incidents which occurred over the past thirteen months, or is based on current information provided by competent authorities. All of the above refers specifically to the Pedra Bonita ramp in São Conrado, Rio de Janeiro. All of the above is verifiable.

Keeping this in mind, and combined with the fact of ridiculously low third-party insurance amounts and the fact that some travel insurance companies specifically exclude coverage for extreme sports, before you even think about hang-gliding in Rio, please do not forget about any of following:

1. Get travel insurance, and double-check with your travel insurance company about the terms and conditions of coverage, i.e. whether extreme sports are covered or not, and which ones. Don’t just assume they will be covered.

2. Read up on the sport BEFORE considering it, keeping in mind that extreme sports operators have a very real monetary interest in down-playing the risks involved. Before you can even go hang-gliding in Rio, you will be required to sign a waiver of liability, in which you certify that you are actually aware of the risks involved, so make sure you really know what is going on.

3. Keep in mind that to go hang-gliding in Rio, you must sign a waiver of liability in which you basically state that, regardless of what happens, it’s never the pilot’s fault. While I am not certain whether such a statement is actually worth the paper it’s written on and isn’t actually unconscionable, suing someone in Brazil after an accident certainly isn’t facilitated by such a waiver. And would you be willing to go through a protracted court battle, anyway – in a foreign country with a language you might not speak, and an entirely different legal culture you’re totally unfamiliar with? Really?

4. Suffering an accident abroad can lead to MAJOR expenses you will have to cover upfront, regardless of whether you have insurance or not, so make sure you have some backup cash. I am not talking about hundreds of dollars, I am talking about thousands of dollars here. Or tens of thousands, in the case of very serious accidents. Even if you don’t die or are not bound to a wheel chair for the rest of your life, extensive time away from home may still cost you your job, your career, your business, your savings, and what else not. Think about it.

5. Ask for a copy of the pilot’s A.B.V.L. certificate and inspect the pilot’s file at the A.B.V.L. office at Pepino Beach for any penalties which may have been applied, and why. Also, take a moment to quickly leaf through the register of complaints – they are required to show it to you upon request.

6. Ask the pilot for details about his third-party liability insurance. You really don’t want to have any unpleasant surprises in case things go wrong.

7. According to the A.B.V.L. regulations, as of August this year, a flag system will be used at the Pedra Bonita jump-off ramp in the Floresta de Tijuca national park (the only hang-gliding ramp in the city of Rio de Janeiro). Green means favorable conditions, yellow means alert conditions, red means flights are prohibited. Don’t let yourself be pressured into flying at times when conditions might be anything less than favorable.

If anything is iffy about any of the items above, or there are any other circumstances which make you uneasy, don’t hesitate to back out. This is not one activity where you should assume that you can just “wing” it – you’re playing with your life here. In the truest and widest sense of the word.

And, should something happen, call or have somebody call the police IMMEDIATELY. Pilots are not required to report accidents to the police, only to the A.B.V.L., and the A.B.V.L. doesn’t automatically contact law enforcement, either. Unbelievable, but true.

Hope the above is helpful for everyone to make a truly educated decision about whether to go hang-gliding in Rio de Janeiro or not.

El Austriaco

Macunaima

12-07-04, 12:32

Sperto

12-07-04, 20:52

Do you think I´ll blend in if I dress in a Olodum T-shirt, colorful capoeirapants (with a big berimbau), havaianas, Senhor do Bonfim-bracelets and a Copacabana-cap?
Anyway it seems that´s the way a lot of gringos loves to dress in Brazil.

El Austriaco

12-13-04, 21:15

Most of them are very well thought out, but I will comment negatively on one, because it's one I've noticed many times in Copa.

Austriaco says you should wear havianas and a football team t-shirt when going out on the town because that's what "the natives" wear.

Well... maybe. Maybe if the natives are very poor or if it's Sunday afternoon or a game day. However, the only white, obviously middle-class men I see wearing clothes like this at night - especially weeknights - on the town in Rio are, well, gringos who seem to think they are blending in. The same goes for capoeira pants.Thanks for the correction, Macunaima. Of course, you're absolutely right on the money. While I don't think that I was exactly suggesting to wear "havaianas", i.e. flip-flops, or shorts for a night on the town, you're correct - I should have been more specific. As a matter of fact, there are a number of reasons I was thinking that shorts and havaianas would not be appropriate and/or suitable in a number of situations:

1. It might be too cold, anyway. This time, I was in Rio from the end of June to mid-October. Definitely winter time.

2. Some places won't let you in with such attire. Like Help. No shorts, no sandals.

Basically, I was referring more to the daytime attire. So at night, or whenever you're in doubt and decide to play it safe, I definitely agree with Macunaima's suggestion: a pair of clean jeans or casual slacks, a low-key pair of sneakers, and a solid color t-shirt, preferably black or a dark color. Though if you're doing nothing more than hang out at Meia Pataca, Veranda sobre as Ondas, and Balcony in Copacabana, chances are that, regardless of how you dress, you will always be identified as a tourist, either way. And once you make it inside the termas, how you dress really is a non-issue, too.

One more thing since it just happens to come to mind, and it's related to the casual dress issue: in case you need to extend your visa for whatever reason, the place to do it is at the Federal Police in downtown Rio (Departamento de Polícia Federal, Superintendência Regional do Rio de Janeiro). The address is at Av. Rodrigues Alves, 1 - 3º andar - Centro/CEP 20081-250, though the main entrance is at Av. Venezuela. Please note that you have to wear long pants to get in - no exceptions made. Of course, in the meanwhile, some smart entrepreneurs have set up a few pant rental businesses just outside, but thought you guys might still want to know to save you some trouble.

Amerioca

12-28-04, 03:38

I live across the baia/bay in Icarai, Niteroi. The normal attire in this area is long pants with an untucked collared short-sleeved shirt. The shirts are usually of one color, without any patterns. Furthermore, bright in color (eg., red, blue, yellow, etc.) White shirts are usually reserved for waiters. Rarely do I see people wearing sandalas/sandals for about and around business. Don't forget that R$10 knock off watch you bought on the street.

Game jerseys are usually worn on game day. I follow Mengao and will not wear my jerseys other than the day mentioned...much like my Brasilian counterparts.

As for sandals, I prefer Ipanemas over Havaianas. The rubber on the Ipanamas are much thicker and softer than their rival.

Copacabana is a different scene. I lived there for almost year in Posto 6. Anything really goes in that area.

Hojo

12-29-04, 17:28

For all of you that are here in Rio or are comming here, the shit slingers are out in force and are very aggressive. It seems everyone I talked to has got hit including me.

pop till you drop,
hojo

Helicopter

12-30-04, 06:00

BRAZIL: CITIZENS URGED TO SHIELD TOURISTS FROM CRIME The authorities in Rio de Janeiro are turning to the city's residents and business owners for help in reporting crimes against tourists. The plan includes a telephone hot line and a poster campaign. "Don't turn your back on violence against tourists," one poster says. "Denounce it." "We can't have a policeman on every corner, but we do have citizens, honest workers, good people on every corner who can all help to bring down this type of crime," said Zeca Borges, the director of the project. City officials expect 2.4 million tourists to visit in the December-to-March peak season. The police have already registered nearly 3,000 cases this year in which tourists were robbed in Rio. Over all, muggings rose 56 percent in October, compared with the same month in 2003. (Reuters)

I am not sure this program will have any effect. You need to keep an eye out for yourself.

Lover Boy #2

01-03-05, 08:22

It's a nice plan, in theory, but I have seen people turn their backs on neighbors, so helping tourists seems a bit far fetched. I guess, in a country where it is so cheap to have someone killed or seriously hurt, the average citizen thinks twice before getting involved at all.

Vinni100

01-03-05, 22:39

For all of you that are here in Rio or are comming here, the shit slingers are out in force and are very aggressive. It seems everyone I talked to has got hit including me.

pop till you drop,
hojoWhat do you mean exactly?

Lover Boy #2

01-05-05, 06:45

Vinni,

These street kids walk around with a plastic bottle filled with a dark colored, gelataneous material. They squirt the "shit" on your shoes and then tell you that you need a shoeshine. Some claim this is a prelude to robbery. Some claim this is a prelude to an unneeded shoe shine.

Hojo

01-05-05, 07:27

Hello Vinni100,

This scam is usually executed by multiple people.

First a person or a group of people find a way to sling shit onto your shoes without you seeing it happen. Sometimes it is Shit and other times it is that material Lover Boy #2 describes below.

Next a shoe shine boy appears out of nowhere pointing at your shoe and attempts to clean it for you and charge you a lot of money for it. Usually the boy shows you one price to clean your shoe, but then upon completion tells you it is more.

Avenida Atlantica is a prime spot of this. I have heard it happens on occasion on N.S. Copacabana as well.

pop till you drop,
hojo

Prosal

01-10-05, 12:09

Here's a site (in portugese) reporting the day-by-day "Violência no Rio de Janeiro" :

http://noticias.terra.com.br/ultimas/0,,EI316,00.html

Really impressive !!!

Bubba Boy

01-10-05, 15:25

For those who can't read portuguese, this site is quite good.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr

You enter the URL you wish to translate and then select which language it is written in and then select which language you want to read it in. It is rough but not to bad.

Royalflush

01-12-05, 02:04

Bablefish is okay, but it translates into European Portugese. For Brazilian Portugese, another free translator is:

http://www.worldlingo.com/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html

Kuranyi

02-01-05, 16:38

Just wanted to warn not to walk alone at night in copacabana.I did it many times without any problems that is why I felt to safe.

I went out of the balcony bar at about 1AM in the direction to Barbarella at the Av. Atlantica.About 100m from the bar a guy talked to me in portuguese.As I could not answer him in portuguese he attacked me and suddenly there were about 5 street kids grabbing into my pockets.The whole thing lasted maybe 5 seconds.I think it would have been a stupid idea to fight with them and maybe get harmed or killed for 50 Euro.

I spoke to a german who lives in copa and he told me that there are 2 spots where this happens every day.One is the above mentioned and the other is near help.

Rio Bob

03-13-05, 21:40

I was walking down copacabana beach a couple of weeks ago and this guy who was walking behind me was a victim of the shit on the shoe scam, as I was walking I could hear what was going on, what a shame. I think I mentioned here once before that several years ago I had 2 dogs and I wore my sneakers to Rio that I walked the dogs with, they had shit on them, luckily the guy who does the scam approached me and told me I have shit on my sneakers and I told him your right please clean them, they were like new after that.

Also recently while in Rio I had an apartment and had many girls coming in and out, not one thing was stolen. I wear contact lenses and I had very little saline solution left and was saving it for an emergency. One girl while she was leaving asked me if I had any solution for her lenses, I said no as I knew I only had a drop left, so she left. Later I thought about her question and looked for the saline solution and it was gone, she must have taken it but the question puzzles me, no big deal, could have been worse.

Mont Aber

03-14-05, 05:19

Trippleecks

03-14-05, 15:09

Mont, that depends on the place you rent. Apartments do not have safes large enough for Laptops. Also many apartments are not hooked up for internet access, so why the laptop? Just to download photos?

Ever been to Miami in the winter? That is what Rio is like in July/Aug. Daytime shorts or jeans and shirt. At night it can get a bit cool especially along the beach, so a long sleve shirt would be good and possibly a light jacket of some kind.

Rio Bob

03-16-05, 00:47

Hello everyone,

I'm going to be travelling with a couple of friends to Rio sometime in July/August 2005. What type of clothing should we wear while down there to somewhat blend in. What do the locals wear?

Is it safe to keep a laptop computer in the apartment I rent? Should I bring one at all? (I'm aware of the power adapter difference)

Should I use a fake wallet with a few $$$'s in it while having my real stuff hidden on me?

I should note that I travel into mexico often so I'm pretty good about covering my six. Also, the three of us will travel together everywhere all the time.

Any suggestions, even ones that I haven't asked about or addressed would be greatly appreciated.

-Monty

Mont, if the locals wear completely different clothes than you, what are you going to do go out and buy a whole new wardrobe for your week in Rio? Depending on whether you look like a Brazilian or not then it is not going to matter what you wear because they are going to know who you are. They wear more or less plain clothes, short sleeve shirts not tucked in and cotton pants with loafers.

Some parts of Mexico may be more dangerous than Rio depending on where you go but Rio is no Cancun. Rio is a tourist area but it is a city by the sea not an area just created for tourists so it may be a different ballgame depending on where in Mexico you are referring to.

The fake wallet gimmick may work, the banditos may be in a hurry and if they get a wallet they may scram and leave you alone, sure use all the tricks you can to give them the false impression that they got something. The best is don't get caught in the first place.

The 3 of you travelling together is very good, I would imagine that muggers would prefer a loner rather than dealing with 3.

There are plenty of internet stores around and I use apartments but they have never been broken into while I was there but you have to wonder how many keys are floating around so be careful with your possessions in an apartment.

JoshJosh69

03-16-05, 02:02

John

03-16-05, 07:59

I stayed in Rio for three months last year and because of personal reason my mongering had to be late at night most of the time. I had to walk Avenida Atlantica many nights after 3:00 am and never had any trouble.

In my opinion as long as you are aware of your surroundings and not completely drunk while walking on Avenida Atlantica then you shouldn't have any problems.
I found Rio to be very safe but then again I never drink too much alcohol. In my opinion if you are drinking too much and don't know your surroundings then always take a cab no matter how far you are going and no matter which city in the world you are in. There are desperate people out there in every city.

Kuranyi

03-16-05, 13:01

I would not feel so safe like you.You can see my report.

If you are walking alone at Avd. Atlantica late at night you are definetely looking for some trouble even if you are sober. But I did not believe it before until it happened.

Good luck and do not take much money with you.

Rio Bob

03-17-05, 05:27

Rump Humper

03-22-05, 08:16

Josh, I would not walk this after coming out of HELP as I believe this is a completely HOT zone for mugging. I would take a taxi. I have been offered apartments in this area and if it is not across the street on Miguel Lemos then I opt for further away so that I could justify a taxi ar get one to take me. I would not walk in this area late at night as it is notorius for mugging tourists. Cuidado.Josh,

I would have to agree with Rio Bob that the area around Help is a hot zone for muggings. My guess would be within a 5-7 block radius around Help. Mostly the streets intersecting Atlantica are were most of the muggings happen, and not directly on Atlantica.

I have never been mugged, but I also know Copa is not all that safe at night. It is probably safer than it used to be. I have walked down to a kiosk to get some smokes late at night which is maybe 1/2 a block, but I wouldn't just stroll around and hang out. I don't stay in Copa anymore either.

I have never walked anywhere from Help. I have always taken a cab. That is one of the first things some old time mongers told me to do and that was years ago. Even if you are only going a couple of blocks. Saving a couple of bucks on cab fare is not worth it. The Rio thugs know that the area around Help has the most gringo tourists. That includes Americans, Brits, Germans, and Italians.

What I have heard that not much happens on Atlantica. Probably because of the new flood lights, security cameras, and police everywhere. It is the intersecting streets that have the most problems. Right were you are talking about walking.

My guess is that if you walk that route long enough that eventually something will happen. I don't think I even know anyone that walks from there. There is a reason there are so many taxis in front of Help. If you are walking with a garota by yourself you will especially stick out like a horny gringo. I don't even think a garota would walk with you from Help. Most would likely insist on a taxi. They know better. Walking with a group of men is probably OK, but by yourself with a garota is asking for trouble. Hell, you might as well take her for a walk on the beach first.

The only thing crazy thing I have ever seen in Rio is a drunk Brazilian being to drunk in public, and mouthing off to the police. He didn't mouth off to much as they fucked that dude up. They were kicking the fucking guy in the head and knocking him out in short order, then dragging him, and throwing him in a police van. One of his friends attempted to protest is ill treatment and the fucker got the same. I think the police wanted to make an example out of him in front of a lot of people, most of which were tourists. I was sitting at Balcony when that happened.

Well, best of luck to you if you decide to walk it. Maybe nothing will happen. One thing I know is that mongers who take cabs everywhere at night have significantly reduced there chances getting mugged. It still could happened once you get out of a cab in front of your hotel or apartment, but the chances of it happening walking around at night are exponentially higher.

Lorenz Mi

03-26-05, 16:33

Hello,

I'm just come back from 22 days in Rio dJ.

I wait to explain my experience since I'm a little bit "scaramantico".

Ok, now I can say that Rio is not like the news paper and someone in this forum try to describe: for sure is a big city with many problems related to crimes but the the bed reputation is abosolutely exaggerated.

In 22 days I had never problems following some simple rules like dont's show rolex or other expensive stuff like cameras or similar.

Ipanema is the place to stay, really better that Copacabana.

Use only taxi: from Ipanem to Copa the cost is arounf 10R$, arounf 3$.

Or use taxi from Barbarella to Help for 5R$ even You could walk for 15min..
So, why to walk in the night in Copa ??? If You do it You are looking for some problems!

Otherwise, Ipanema is very quite and You walk alone also in the night.

Dear friends, go to Rio and have a wonderfull holiday without any paranoia,
only don't be stupid!

Ciao

Bubba Boy

03-28-05, 04:43

Glad you had a good and save time in Rio Lorenz, I can understand where you are coming from but I think you were lucky not to see any crime.

I have spent probably 5months out of the last 18 months in Rio. In that time I have seen about a dozen muggings/hold ups, all in daylight and in the Ipanema/Copa area. On one day I saw a bunch of maybe 8 little 8year olds surround a couple on the corner of Avinida N S Copacabana and S Campos begging for food, then one of them grabbed her inexpensive looking gold chain and ran almost right into me. I thought about grabbing him but thought it just wasn't worth it for the sake of a $50 chain.

About 2 hours later I am coming back from the beach in Ipanema to my hotel about 800meters away and I see a street kid on a bike hold up an elderly local couple with a huge knife. The knife was rusty as hell but huge. The kid grabs the couples bag and then rides up a one way street. The couple start whistling and shouting at the kid, more people join in and it is like a chain reaction up the street following the kid until he eventually made his way out of sight. I guess they were making as much noise as possible in case there were police in the vicinty. If there were police they would have most likely shot him dead.

After this, about 5pm I go to L'oumo and tell one of mi amigas. She tells me how her brand new phone was stolen from her last night at gun point. Not a bad day in the way of crime stats for Rio.

Adding to this I have seen gun fire in the favellas at night (tracers), police beat the shit out of several street vendors, a few other run of your mill bag snatchings and I have had the Police point a gun at me (they do this before talking to you). I have had a few people approach me but they thought better of carrying out their threat when getting up close, I am 6'3, youngish and I guess there are easier targets out there than me, however I feel I am on borrowed time sometimes. The favellas are the problem, they are so close to all the good areas, they just come down from the hills, hit something and then disappear if they make it out of the area. All this and I am very careful where I go and how I act. Most of these things have happened to me in Ipanema, probably the best area in Rio.

Simmer

03-28-05, 19:41

I had two "unpleasant" experiences in Rio recently.

Firstly, coming out of Help slightly drunk at about 2am alone (nothing took my fancy), somebody wandered up to me and said "give me money, I have gun" in English. I looked at him, pretended not to understand, and kept on walking. The pavement area was still fairly busy and he had clothes on that didn't hide a gun, so I called his bluff. He followed me across the road and back again, whereupon I jumped in a taxi. I was only walking to get away from the taxi touts at Help anyway! So, nothing happened but still an unpleasant experience.

Secondly, after sitting with local cousins and their American friend, who had befriended me the night before, the male cousin saw somebody and went to talk to them. He came back somewhat agitated and walked across the road to a police car that happened to turn up. Several minutes later (at this point the female cousin was starting to get nervous), the police car sped off in the direction that the strangers went. The male cousin came back and said we ought to move. He had known the strangers and they told him they were planning to rob me and the American. Charming. Needless to say, we exited the area though I fear for the safety of the cousins.

Thanks to this forum and elsewhere, I avoided most of the usual scams.

Rabo Verde

04-02-05, 07:51

By Michael Astor
ASSOCIATED PRESS

6:59 p.m. April 1, 2005

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil – Police incensed by investigations of brutality and corruption by "bad" cops may have carried out a massacre in two impoverished suburbs of Rio de Janeiro, killing 30 people, state officials said Friday.

Another victim was left brain dead in Thursday's onslaught in Nova Iguacu and Queimados, crime-infested suburbs 20 miles northwest of Rio, said Claudia Guerreiro, a spokeswoman for the Rio Public Safety Department.

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In Queimados, gunmen mowed down 12 people, some in Bible Square and others in front of a car wash, she said. In nearby Nova Iguacu, they killed 15 people at a bar, she said.

"There are strong indications that the massacres could have been a reprisal ... for the arrest of eight police officers suspected of killing two men in police station" earlier this week, Guerreiro said.

The eight were caught on camera dumping the bodies of the two men outside the station, Guerreiro said.

Marcelo Itagiba, head of the Rio de Janeiro State Public Safety Department, said authorities were investigating whether police participated in Thursday's suburb slayings and if so, "we will be implacable."

He said the massacre may have been the work of people "unhappy with our investigations into crimes committed by police officers and with our efforts to weed out corrupt and bad policemen."

One victim was 13-year-old Felipe Soares Carlos, who had had just returned from school.

"He went out to play with his friends and minutes later I heard shots," said his 17-year-old sister, Priscila. "I went out and saw a lot of bodies stretched out on the street and then I saw my brother. I touched him and his eyes rolled over and I knew he was dead."

"One minute you see all these kids you have known for years playing in the street and the next minute they are all dead," said Maria Jose, who owns a neighborhood bar. "It was shocking."

Sobbing families of the victims flocked to the Austin Cemetery in Nova Iguacu for the funerals that began late Friday. Many held up pictures of their slain relatives, who ranged in age from 13 to 64.

"He went to get cigarettes. I heard shots and went to see what happened. My son was dead," said Rosa Maria Silva, whose 19-year-old son Jonas was among the victims.

Several lawmakers also attended the funeral. "Experience has shown that this type of crime is always carried out by the underworld of the police apparatus," said Jorge Piciani, president of the Rio de Janeiro state assembly.

The human rights group Amnesty International said the killings were reminiscent of massacres by Rio death squads.

Twelve years ago, death squads killed eight street children while they slept outside Rio de Janeiro's Candelaria church. A month later, 21 people in Rio's Vigario Geral shantytown were gunned down, apparently in retaliation for the killing of police allegedly involved in drug dealing.

Rio de Janeiro is one of the world's most violent cities, with a homicide rate of around 50 per 100,000 residents.

George W

04-02-05, 16:00

By the way, Iìm Spensierato, not George W, but don't know why the system log in me with this ID.

I basically agree with Lorenz, ve'been in Rio one week in May 2004, always wlaked during the night in Copacabana, used the public bus to visit Corcovado and Pan azucar, never had problems. Of course basic rules are to be followed: don't show rolex or other, keep a low profile, not much money in the pocket and better if splitted in two-three parts. Many towns in Europe and expecially in US or Europe are also dangerous, maybe Rio a little more but it not worth to be paranoic.

Enjoy Brasil

Krazy Kanaka

04-05-05, 18:52

Rio de Janeiro is one of the world's most violent cities, with a homicide rate of around 50 per 100,000 residents.I guess that I should have checked this Forum before making plans to visit next month! My buddy flies to Brazil twice a year and has convinced me that I would be fine (he's coming with me).

Should I reconsider going?

Rump Humper

04-06-05, 02:00

I guess that I should have checked this Forum before making plans to visit next month! My buddy flies to Brazil twice a year and has convinced me that I would be fine (he's coming with me).

Should I reconsider going?Fuck no. Go down and have good time. It is good that you are going with someone that knows Rio. That is how I went on my first trip. I am leaving for Brazil tomorrow, and I prefer to go by myself now. I always meet up with other mongers when I am out and about. I have gone out hunting with Brits, germans, and other Americans that I have met while traveling.

One of the funnest times I had was with an Arab from Lebanon. He was Arab who was born in Lebanon, but grew up in Florida and had family in Rio. Fucking guy new everybody it seemed. We went out with a friend of his who is a Rio cop. No cover charges, lots of free drinks, and he even took us to a private house and we fucked for free.

We even went out to Help with these other Arabs guys one night. They were all British citizens, but were all born in different Arab countries. There I am, a white American, sitting in Help with these 4 Arab guys. I remember at first thinking to myself, these fuckers could be part of Hezbolloh or something and want to cut my fucking head off. That trip was about the time that a lot people where getting decapitated in Iraq. Turned out they were all cool as hell and were all expert mongers. I thought that me being an American that they would not like hanging with me, but they were fun as hell. One of the guys was a fucking riot. I couldnt believe how he talked to the garotas in Help. He was like a cross between Bud Bundy, Uncle Chester, and Sharif Abdur Rahim.

It is fun to meet different people. I am traveler as well as a monger. I just do my traveling in monger havens. Just remember that Rio is not Europe, and to take taxis at night no matter the distance and you should be fine.

Read as much as you can from this board, as there is a lot of good information here. Read the gernal information and safety sections for certain. Your buddy will most likely know where to go get laid.

Just be aware of your surrondings and have good time. Dont get to drunk when you are out and about. Learn some Portuguese before you go.

Member #3411

04-07-05, 19:06

Sal Dali

04-08-05, 04:54

Atre75,

Read, Man. That info is ALL OVER THIS BOARD!

S

Dear Mongers,

I am planning to make my first solo trip to RJ in the second week of May.

Will any fellow monger be around those days?

And my second question is, how is the STD situation in Rio, any info? Are these terma girls getting tested?

And finally, how far is Rio Roiss from Help? Still taxi distance?

Thank you very much in advance.

Atre75

Hot To Cool

04-09-05, 07:09

I guess that I should have checked this Forum before making plans to visit next month! My buddy flies to Brazil twice a year and has convinced me that I would be fine (he's coming with me).

Should I reconsider going?Krazy Kanaka,

Assuming your handle is related to your ethnic origin, you may even be mistaken for a Paulista, or someone from Sao Paulo. This will help you to "blend in," so to speak.

Atreides,

RTFF, of course, but the termas are about 20 minutes away by taxi from Help.

Hot To Cool

Rio Bob

04-09-05, 23:40

Dear Mongers,

I am planning to make my first solo trip to RJ in the second week of May.

Will any fellow monger be around those days?

And my second question is, how is the STD situation in Rio, any info? Are these terma girls getting tested?

And finally, how far is Rio Roiss from Help? Still taxi distance?

Thank you very much in advance.

Atre75

Termas girls get tested regularly but you will be using a condom anyway unless your a porn star, so don't worry.

The Rio Roiss is around the corner from HELP, tops a block and a half but be careful late at night as this is a hot spot for muggers, travel light and be quick on your feet, you might want to give the garota your room number ahead of time and tell her to meet you there in case you need to run to the hotel, they won't bother her.

Member #4156

04-20-05, 15:55

Does anyone know where I can find one of those belts that I can hide money in. I'm not talking about those money patches that you carry around your waist. I'm talking about a regular looking belt but you can stuff mone inside (somehow, or atleast what I heard).

WoodYi

04-21-05, 02:34

The Prince 187

04-21-05, 06:31

After years of living in the green monster, having both penthouses, good security, and enterance right off Ave. Atlantica, I am moving up in the world and taking a nice apartment right on the street behind the green building. The first street paralell to Ave Atlantica. Anyone who know where the green building is (2 blocks from Help), knows where this is. Do I need to cab it or can I walk at night with girls? Any walk on Ave. Atlantica is difficult at 3:00 am, but now I have to make a turn and go onto a side street. Opinons please. I will take a cab around the corner if necessary. Anyone think I am over reacting?No, you are not over reacting. On my last trip, I met a buddy of mine who was staying out there for 3 months. Within the first month of his trip, not really being aware of how dangerous rio really is, decided to walk to his apt. 3 blocks away from Help at 6 in the morning. he figured the sun was coming out, and being such a close distance, he was immune to any threats. After turning off of Ave. Atlantica, he was greeted by 3 drunken Brazileros. One proceeded to attack his shoulder. Being drunk, he didnt realize that he was being stabbed until he started to see blood. Once he saw the blood he ran away, hopped in a cab, and went to the hospital to get stiched up. The wounds were enormous, several punctures on the shoulder, a few on the forearm, and one slash on his hand.

Although they didnt mug him, they saw a lonely gringo that probably just finished banging one of "their" girls and decided to capitalize on him at his expense. As much fun as we have, rio definately has an ugly side to it.

Be careful and have fun.

Member #4156

04-21-05, 12:20

http://www.beltoutlet.com/leatmonbelby.html

just Google money belts and you will find many other sites.Good Looking Out!

Macunaima

04-21-05, 15:02

This week, a Russian tourist was shot to death by a prostitute whom he treid to bilk.

Gentlemen, this is no game to the women involved. It is their means of livelihood. They take it very seriously.

The gringo fool in question agreed to pay 300 R$ for his trick and then tried to zilch his hired help, finally agreeing to only pay 100 R$. That was when he got to try to digest a 9mm bullet. He was a physicist in town at a conferecne. Surely, 200 R$ was pocket change to him. But his idiot was willing to lay his life down for 80USD.

Let this be a lesson to everyone on Copa: Pay the girls what you owe.

Lorenzo

04-21-05, 16:58

Thieves are wise to money belts worn inside the clothing, although they may not yet be aware of those worn on the outside that look like ordinary belts. They are also well aware of stashing money inside the sock, which rules out ankle belts, which I wore for years. I tnink the best bet might be a neck safe, or a shoulder belt, which can be found at the same website, www.beltoutlet.com. Both should be worn under a loose fitting shirt, so the bulge won't be apparent.

Lorenzo

Kenn

04-23-05, 13:12

As far as I can tell, here in Brazil anyone not Brazilian is a gringo. Unlike Mexico where it means anyone from the USA.

Macunaima

04-23-05, 16:55

Here in Brazil, ANYONE foreign is a gringo. Argentinians are gringos, as are Mexicans. "Gringo" is most emphatically not a synonym for "white": it is a synonym for "foreign". If you are not from Brazil, you are a gringo, no matter what your skin color is. I've seen Angolans and Mozambiquans get called "gringo" down here. About the only group that (usually) can avoid the term are Asians who are usually called "china" or "japa" - again, no matter where they originally hail from.

The Corn Hole

04-23-05, 19:37

Termas girls get tested regularly but you will be using a condom anyway unless your a porn star, so don't worry.I must disagree with this statement. Fact is there are plenty of girls that work at Termas that wouldn't think twice about sex w/o condom if you see them after hours and I met one gent down there who said he went condomless with two different girls inside Luomo. Porn star or not really makes no difference. I admit I've slipped up now and again but strap it most of the time.

I know how nasty STDs can get!!

Rio Bob

04-25-05, 04:08

I must disagree with this statement. Fact is there are plenty of girls that work at Termas that wouldn't think twice about sex w/o condom if you see them after hours and I met one gent down there who said he went condomless with two different girls inside Luomo. Porn star or not really makes no difference. I admit I've slipped up now and again but strap it most of the time.

I know how nasty STDs can get!!

Corn Hole, yes you are 100 % correct but for the most part in a termas I think you have to ask first and sure there are some who will oblige.

For the most part most girls I know from Help insist on a condom but lately I find some who are less restrictive, like during foreplay without a condom like all of a sudden they are on top of you and oops they slip you in bare back and say excuse me I couldn't resist I was so hot and by that time it felt so good and there you go the damage has been done already, yes it's laziness and dangerous but the sensation can't be beat, Amen.

Hojo

04-25-05, 05:02

I agree with Corn Hole on the bareback issue.

I was a regular with one of the Help girls and she kept complaining about her sister(another Help girl) giving bareback FS with guys who would pay extra for it. By the way, this girl moved on to Cafe Foto in Sao Paulo.

I'm pretty sure every girl in Rio, on the program or not, has had an uncovered willy slipped into her by accident. It's the oldest trick in the book.

I have heard of Therma girls doing the same, but not confirmed.

If you read the "UN HIV/AIDS Report 2004," it mentions that most sex workers in Sub Saharan Africa go bare back with their regular customers. I think this would probably be true in Rio as well. The report also says that women apear to contract the disease twice as easily a men from unprotected intercourse. If you haven't read this report, I recommend it before you go bareback or before you try the "oops I acidently sliped it in without a condom" trick.

Stay Safe.

pop till you drop,
hojo

The Corn Hole

04-25-05, 19:14

Yes, some of those girls sure can test the strength of one's will power can't they. They're so freakin hot and when you add a little alcohol to it common sense and good judgement can quickly go right out the window.

Member #3411

04-26-05, 12:42

Well, maybe a bit too late now. I will be there in 2 weeks :D

In violent Rio, it's police vs. the masses - both sides lose lives in vicious battles

By Tyler Bridges, Knight Ridder Newspapers

RIO DE JANEIRO - More than two policemen are killed each week on average in the state of Rio de Janeiro, violence so common that cops have their blood type stitched into their uniform name tags. But don't expect their plight to draw much sympathy here. Rio's cops have long been considered under-trained, trigger happy and easy to bribe. Now their reputation has hit a new low after rampaging policemen massacred 30 slum-dwelling bystanders on March 30.

"It's getting so bad that I'm getting questions on whether we should just do away with the police force and start over," said Ignacio Cano, a sociologist at Rio de Janeiro State University who specializes on the police. "It's a unique act when you have the police force committing a terrorist act against the public."

Authorities have arrested 12 current or former police officers so far in connection with the slaughter. They blame rogue police upset over the arrests of eight fellow officers who were caught on video dumping the decapitated bodies of two suspected criminals outside a police station. The video showed them tossing a head over the station gate.

All of this, of course, conflicts with the postcard version of Rio, a place that enchants visitors and residents alike with the misty sweep of the Copacabana Beach, the dominating Christ statue and the gorgeous ruggedness of the Sugarloaf Mountain.
But woven throughout the tropical city are some 600 slums, known as favelas. Even locals fear hiking up the leafy hillsides to the favelas - there's usually only one path in - because of armed teenage drug traffickers.
It all makes for a violent brew.

Cops killed 983 civilians in Rio in 2004, according to Viva Rio, a nonprofit group that tracks police violence against civilians. The Rio Police Association says 133 cops were killed in 2004, most off duty while riding the bus or working a private security job. Another 40 have been killed in the first three months of 2005.

For comparison, 161 officers were killed in Colombia in 2004; Colombia has nearly triple Rio's population of 15 million. In the United States, with nearly 300 million residents, 153 officers were killed, according to the Web site of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.

Most galling to police is the lack of effort to track down officers' killers.

"It's not like the United States, where the killer of a policeman will be hunted down, perhaps even to death," said Lt. Melquisedec Nascimento, president of the Rio Police Association. "A policeman was killed Friday, and another one on Saturday, and neither was even reported in the newspaper."

At the core of the violence is the battle for favelas, which police enter usually only in huge tactical strikes meant to rout drug traffickers.

"The police invade, occupy and blitz," said Luke Dowdney, a staffer with Viva Rio. "The police attitude is you go in, you do what you need to do and you leave."
That breeds an especially pointed us vs. them situation in which both sides are well armed, quick on the draw and live in the same poor neighborhoods since cops are paid barely above minimum wage.

Most Rio cops hide their profession from their neighbors - by not hanging their uniforms out to dry along with the rest of the clothes, for example.

Cops usually hide their ID cards when traveling on a public bus and never travel in uniform. Street criminals, working in pairs, like to stop the buses and rob the passengers. They typically mow down any police found on board, figuring that if they don't, the cop will kill them.

"They hate us," said a cop named Leonardo, who, like other officers, spoke on condition that only his first name be used out of fear for his safety.

"A lot of my colleagues have been killed," said another cop, Rogerio. "There have been three killed and 21 wounded in my post in the last two years."

"Last year, I went to five funerals," added a third policeman, Carlos.

He crosses himself when he departs home each morning.

"My wife is always worried," he said. "We don't know if we'll come back."
Tania Cristina das Chagas is past worrying. Her son, Jefferson, 25, was ambushed and shot to death last August.

She fainted when she learned he had died.

"When I woke up, I was at home, on drugs, lying in bed. He was my only son, my everything," she said.

Das Chagas relives her son's death every time the television news reports the death of another cop.

"I ask myself: How long are we going to have to suffer like this? How many more will be killed? Why is so little being done to protect them? And why can't they find the killers? They used to fill the streets with police to chase down the killers. But now nothing happens."

Macunaima

04-28-05, 14:19

Atriedes, Bridges' article is just so much bullshit.

In the first place, he makes it sound as if what went down is a daily occurrence. It is not. Secondly, he paints the incident as if it occurred in downtown Rio when, in fact, it occurred in another city - one situated about an hour an a half away from the south zone, where most of you folks stay when you come here.

Finally he paints this whole thing as if it were "cops vs. favelas" and then conveniently "forgets" to tell his readers that this massacre didn't happen in a favela in Rio, but in a working class neighborhood in another city entirely.

Yes, we do have serious problems with violence, crime and police corruption in Rio. But Bridges piece, far from charting a dramatic development in that scenario, is simply sensationalistic yellow journalism at its worst. He reports an incident in the most shocking light possible and analayzes as part of a conflict which wasn't even applicable in the case at hand. What's scary about the massacre is that it DIDN'T occur in a favela, it WASN'T connected to drug gangs and the people killed WEREN'T in conflict with the polive.

Only a completely clueless gringo, looking for a quick media "sell" no matter what the cost to Brazilian society, could interpret that massacre as something connected to the "difficulties" of the carioca police. Fuck, the assholes who propagated those murders were NOT "poor, underpaid cops, forced to risk their lives in defence of an ungratefull society". They were by and large well paid, corrupt mother-fuckers who were literally caught red-handed tossing the heads of people they illegally executed over the walls of their precinct house in an attempt to intimidate their commanding officer.

Oh, the poor dears.

Personally, I hope the bastards fry.

But you tourist folks will not have to wrry about any of this as it's highly unlikely that during your stay down here, you'll come anywhere NEAR Osório or Duque de Caxias. Just like foreign visitors to Washington D.C. don't go traipsing around the streets of Anacostia or Suitland.

Dark Knight

04-28-05, 22:45

I have no issue with what Atreides posted. The WAY he posted it makes it clear that he just copied/pasted an article and included the source. I don't think he tried to 'color' the article or "painted the whole thing" or throw in any editorializing. Am I missing something??

I would think that is the right way to do it, and any intelligent person can interpret for himself.

Personally, At75, if you want to post an article that I haven't seen, you are welcome to. I'll ask questions to glean a deeper understanding. It's what reasonable people do.

If someone wants to take issue, see Tyler Bridges.

Macunaima

04-29-05, 12:42

Dark Knight,

I think it's pretty clear that I was analyzing Bridges' article, not criticizing Atriedes for posting it.

As for "being able to analyze it myself", that may be the case, but plenty of gringos I've talked to in the last few weeks don't even know where the Baixada Fluminense is, let alone the fact that the massacre happened there and not in Rio de Janeiro. Given that, I think my analysis of Bridges' fluff piece served some purpose, especially as it was ballyhooed across Yahoo and the only reason it even showed up here was that some people - Atriedes apparently - were alarmed by it and thought it reason to perhaps rethink their vacation plans.

The Prince 187

04-29-05, 16:29

Rio D

05-11-05, 07:58

Macunaima, how do you know for sure that the Russian actually tried to cheat the prostitute who shot him? Any witnesses other than the hooker herself? Of course she's going to claim that he attempted to cheat her. It is quite possible that she started the trouble (by not doing what was agreed on) and he tried to get his money back. Of course, you shouldn't try to take back money from a hooker unless you're a hardcore pimp and prepared to do whatever it takes, defensively or offensively.

Just the fact that she had a gun tells you what she was about. I hear that there is a minimum sentence of 1 year in prison for getting caught with a gun in Rio. Only a serious criminal would risk it, or else someone who doesn't care about the consequences. She was probably out to rob the john, and he tried to resist. Rio hookers hardly need guns to protect themselves from foreign men. It's not like there's a serial killer tourist flying back and forth to Rio - those guys stay at home and attack the locals SW's.

Some Rio girls have pulled tricks on guys - such as agreeing on a price in Real, then claiming later that it was supposed to be the same amount in dollars. Or getting the money up front, then and refusing to perform what was agreed on. By the way, guys - in most places in Brazil you pay the girls after, not before.

Macunaima

05-11-05, 11:52

Good points, Rio D.

As for the "minimum year for a gun", that's a proposed law that almost certainly will not fly through congress, not an actual state of affairs. The gun in question belonged to her pimp and pimps routinely walk armed here in Rio. So I doubt it had anything at all to do with anyone's "hardcore criminal" status. Other than, perhaps, the pimp's.

But your other points are very well taken. AFAIK, the main witness is the pimp. His version of the story is that the girl came storming down, pissed off, and - somehow - got his gun away from him. From what I've seen, neither the cops nor the media are too convinced with this story.

As for needing the gun to rob the john, however, Rio hookers hardly need guns to do that. "Goodnight Cinderella" is quite easily available in any pro bar here. Furthermore, hotel workers apparently heard the woman "fazer um escándulo", leave the room, come back and shoot the guy. She left immediately after the shooting and I haven't heard if she robbed anything. However, if she had, it almost certainly would have made the papers as murder in conjunction with theft is legally another crime entirely and she's not been charged with that.

So you're right, we don't really know what happened yet, but everything indicates that this wasn't a robbery gone bad. It could very well have been an attempted scam on the pro's part gone bad, however.

In any case, your advice to pay later is very good. However, my advice to pay what was agreed upon still stands, I think. If the girl involved was a psycho or a hard-core criminal, nothing would have protected the guy at any rate and that's just the risk people take, I suppose. However, if the story the hotel workers and the pimp are telling is true - and it certainly sounds plausible to me - the Russian is now dead because he decided to economize.

Pluto2

05-14-05, 05:09

while i had read much about crime in rio and brazil, in many ways i felt safer than in the us in any city after dark.

both rio and sp were heavily patrolled, even more so at night. the sp cops look like the nice kid from next door, the rio cops reminded me of the mean looks on the faces of the new orleans pd officers who scare me.

the cops in rio and sp did not concede one inch of any street to criminals or gang bangers like u see in the us in every city and now many smaller towns. the political leaders in brazil obviously have more spine than the politicains in the us. the only gang banger types that i saw were us citizens, probably pro baseball players on steriods, wearing oversized sirts, oversized pants, hats and lots of attitude shoving people out of their way in help. there were about 15 of these guys in help, most behaved this way. several of the girls made comments about american assholes, and for once i had to remain silent in agreement.

the only scam that i experienced was by a gang of shoe shine crooks, someone threw what would have been a dropping from a hundred pound bird on my shoe, probably a tamarind squirted on while i walked by. i had a 5r in my front pocket, so when the shoe shine guy chased me down the sidwalk pointing at the the mess on my shoe, i thought that this may be an honest encounter. after cleaning my shoe, i tried to give him the 5 he kept insisting on more money, at this point i could feel someone behind me and another shoe shine guy moved to my side with the wallet. i dropped the five in the shoe shine box and moved away quickly towards the cops. i felt a tug on my watch and discovered a minute later that it had been slashed with a very sharp razor peeling the face off of it. i'm guessing that if i had pulled my wallet out the slash would have been my arm and the wallet would have been grabbed off the ground. either way these guys disappeared quickly as i moved toward the cops.

as stated previously, don't let anyone stop you or pull you aside for any reason. i knew this and still almost got my arm slashed.

Lennox

05-14-05, 07:44

Macunaima

05-14-05, 17:13

The Washington Times is produced by the Right Rev. Sun Yung Moon and is not a relaible news source by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the violence "getting so bad", what's interesting is that these gringo newstories never mention the fact that violence has DROPPED from its all time high in the late '80s, early '90s.

If the violence rate has gone down, why, then, is it reported as if it were the worst ever?

Hot To Cool

05-20-05, 08:56

Saw a few stories in the news this week about the crime in Rio. Apparently it has reached epic proportions, surpassing almost any city on earth.

Here's a few of the articles:

Violent Rio a river of blood

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050418-094756-8104r.htm

Rio Run Amok

Brazil's once marvelous city has lost its luster for natives as well as visitors. Can it recover?

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7529006/site/newsweek/Lennox,

Even if Rio were so dangerous, I don't see why any hobbyist couldn't just hop over to Vitoria or Curitiba, which most would agree are much safer and cheaper. Besides, the providers might even give more GFE.

Hot To Cool

Lennox

05-21-05, 00:03

Lennox,
Even if Rio were so dangerous, I don't see why any hobbyist couldn't just hop over to Vitoria or Curitiba, which most would agree are much safer and cheaper. Besides, the providers might even give more GFE.
Hot To Cool

I am probably going to be visiting Rio (aiming for end of June) despite it's reputation as a den of violence. The media always makes thing seem worse than they really are. The last poster is right about the Washington Times having some questionable motivations, and as we found out with Newsweek they are not too accurate either. Nevertheless, I am not planning to take late night strolls on the beach by myself or do anything careless with my money.

I will take your suggestion and read up on Curtiba and Vitoria.

Cachorro

05-21-05, 10:31

Lennox,

Even if Rio were so dangerous, I don't see why any hobbyist couldn't just hop over to Vitoria or Curitiba, which most would agree are much safer and cheaper. Besides, the providers might even give more GFE.

Hot To Cool
This came up in another thread. In reality Vitorita would not be classified as safer than Rio. I couldn't find the stats on the web, but I've seen that mentioned in the Brazilian press somewhere.

Here's one link (I have pasted the most relevant couple of paragraphs here):
http://www.unhabitat.org/mediacentre/documents/sowc/RegionalLAC.pdf

· Urban crime in Brazil: Crime rates have risen sharply in Brazil during recent years, largely due to increased organized crime and trafficking of drugs, firearms, human beings and endangered species involving local and international criminal organizations. São aulo, Rio de Janeiro, Espirito Santo and Pernambuco are the most violent states in Brazil. However, homicide rates vary greatly depending upon area and income.

· For example, tourist areas of Rio de Janeiro have a homicide rate of around 4 per 100,000 people, which is comparable to some of the safest cities in Europe. On the contrary, homicide rates can be as high as 150 per 100,000 people in favelas, slum areas only a few kilometres from these tourist areas.
This suggests that Espirito Santo (Vitoria) is not really safer than Rio, but that both should be fine for the tourist who does not venture into bad situations.

Curitiba might be safer but there have been some disillusioned mongers reporting from there in the past.

Hot To Cool

05-22-05, 11:03

Cachorro,

Again, we have those key words "mentioned in the Brazilian press." Violence, of course, sells newspapers, as anybody who picks up a Mexican newspaper with photographs of horrific crimes knows. What that article shows, is that, if you're not involved in drugs, arms, slavery, or endangered species, you're most likely not going to have any violent crime problems.

Hot To Cool

Macunaima

05-23-05, 17:06

Be VERY careful about journalists who probably do not speak (or barely speak) Portuguese, who know nothing about Brazilian history, and yet who make assinine statements like "crime rates have sharply increased in Brazil..."

Sorry, to disappoint, but no they haven't.

Recently, there's been a big bafafá over a supposed 800 percent crime increase in Brazil over the past 25 years. Sure, the stats show that increase as having taken place. But why?

What was happening in Brazil 25 years ago? The military dictatorship. And what was one of the dictatorship's main selling points? That they had restored order to the country. Consequently, violent crime in the favelas was simply off the official radar screen into well into the late '80s. It just didn't occur because the favelas were very well under control, thank you. (And if you claimed that it WAS occuring, you were obviously a terrorist or communist sympathizer who needed straightening out...)

Furthermore,, most areas in the backwoods didn't even report alot of their crime to the national authorities until well into the 90s. So a HUGE portion of that increase is due to vastly improved reporting techniques and NOT due to increased crime.

We've ALWAYS been a violent nation. We're just now getting a better picture of ourselves, is all.

During this supposed 800 percent increase, Rio de Janeiro has supposedly been the most violent city in Brazil. But violent crime has actually gone DOWN in RdJ since its high point in the early '90s. How can that be if there's been an 800 percent increase overall and Rio is the most violent city in the nation? Simple. Most of that increase in national numbers comes from places like Burro Morto Mirim in the Pernambuco backlands, whose mayor's office just got a computer and the county's only internet uplink and so - for the first time in history - can accurately report that Jeca Tatu had a little too much pinga to drink last night at Dona Maria's venda and ended up cutting the throat of his long-time buddy and co-worker, Zé Macaxeira.

Hojo

05-30-05, 18:50

Hello Everyone,

If you are staying at an apartment close to Help, especially on Rua Meguel Lemos or Rua Djalma Urich, be very carefull. There is a team of guys trying to mug people.

Two of them tried to set me up, but luckily got inside of the gate of my apartment building just as one guy got within 2 feet of me. He just laughed because I was able to out maneuver him and his buddy.

I saw these guys as I was walking to my apartment while crossing Rua Meguel Lemos diagonaly. I heard some loud whistleing and that is what caused me to look around. I think they were signal each other. That is when I saw them pacing me. One guys was 20 feet in front of the other. The front guy was trying to intersect my walking path, while the other guy was walking very fast to catch up. At the very last minute just as the front guy intersected my path, I pulled a zig sag meneuver behind one of the sidewalk trees to position me behind the front guy, which put me exactly at my Apartment gate door. That is when I dove into the entrance of the Apartment. This was 4:00 AM Saturday night.

Another guy the same night was approached by 4 guys with knives but he just luckily got in the gate as well. I don´t know what time this happened.

These incidents were at the corner of Rua Meguel Lemos and Avenida Atlantica. So if you think you are safe because your apartment is within 100 yards/meters of Help, watch your back and listen for whistles.

I´m going to try and work something out with the door man tonight. Maybe I can call him when I leave help and get him to wait for me at the gate.

pop till you drop,
hojo

Papi Que Rico

05-31-05, 17:15

i stayed in that building (8 lemos) three weeks ago. i didn't see anything as organised as you describe (fortunately) but i did see some shady looking characters. happy to see you avoided trouble.

i also saw some othe disturbing things. specifically, i saw too many of my peers leaving help or mp just about stumble drunk, hanging on to garotas for support. i also saw guys wearing flashy jewlery, talking loudly, and just in general drawing attention to themselves.

i know this is old hat for most of y'all, but it bears repeating. when you are in the third world, and especially in a neighborhood that is problematic, you just can't hang your ass out the window. leave the bling bling at home, keep your drinking to a managable level (shit, you'll enjoy the fucking a lot more that way also), walk, don't run, at a brisk steady pace, with an upright stature. don't stare at people, but don't look away either. move with an air of confidence.

there are a lot of potential targets out there for the scum to go after. who they decide to hit often depends on something as subtile as how you carry yourself. "the club" doesn't really protect your car from theft, it just makes yours a little bit more difficult to steal and encourages the thief to take the next one on the block. same thing with muggers.

Rio Bob

06-01-05, 01:36

HoJo, all I have to say is great moves man. I have stayed in that building and the reason I liked it is because it is so close to Help and I have seen these guys hanging out on that corner and for some reason they didn't bother me.

I do know that you have to ring the door bell to get the doorman to open the front gate, I guess you were lucky and he was there that night but what a problem you would have had if he was on a break and you were stuck out front with the door locked, you would have been screwed.

I don't stay in that building anymore for other reasons but now when I leave Help at 4 in the morning I walk very quickly to the street and get into a cab and I lock all the doors right away, you were lucky, good luck to you.

Hojo

06-01-05, 15:21

Hello Rio Bob,

I have the door man trained at my building. I shake the gate door loudly while yelling OLA!!! and the door unlocks within 1 second. That is how I dove into the gate door.

Two nights ago these guys were still waiting for me. My girlfriend :-) and I walked to the apartment. When I got within 20 meters of Rua Meguel Lemos, the muggers started to walk out from behind the hot dog truck parked at the front corner of my building. I told my girlfriend ESPERA (wait) and we paused for about 2 minutes while I saw them get in to place with one guy stopping directly in front of me on the road as if it were the stand off at the OK Coral. It was like they were setting up a chess board. This time they were not even trying to be inconspicuous.

Then I asked a Taxi Driver next to me to run me around to the block and he just laughed. He said if I paid him $5R he would walk us literally across the street with no problems. That is what I did. The driver was smiling during the whole walk.

This all makes sense now. I know the Help taxi drivers in the past have paid kids to terrorize turist leaving Help to encourage them to get into taxis. Now they are paying adults to do this.

As for Funkignitor questions,

These guys are 20 to 25 years old and look slim and fast.

I haven´t figured out who to talk with yet, but I´ll post it if I can find a Help Disco Mugging Complaint department. As for reading other post, it seem 2 police men are killed every week in Rio, so I think my request will be at the bottom of the barrell.

On a good note, I haven´t seen or heard of any shit slinger attacks lately.

pop till you drop,
hojo

Steve 99

06-01-05, 23:46

I am staying here:

Hotel Luxor Continental. It is one block away from Leme beach, very close to the Lido district (Ave. Princess Isabella with all of the boites like Frank's and Scotch Bar)

How is the crime in the Lido district. Is it safer than Help area? Should I take cabs from Franks, etc. to Luxor at night in this district also? Thanks for any saftey tips on Lido. One thing I don't want is a HOJO experience.

Rio Bob

06-02-05, 02:59

I stayed in that Building (8 Lemos) three weeks ago. I didn't see anything as organised as you describe (fortunately) but I did see some shady looking characters. Happy to see you avoided trouble.

One night I slept in and left 8 Miguel Lemos at 1 in the morning, walked out the front door of the building and saw these guys outside hanging out looking for marks.

When I saw them I didn't want to walk out and get trapped so I walked over to the hot dog stand truck there like I knew where I was going and as if I knew the people who ran the stand. I sat down on their boxes and put my feet up, kicked back and kept talking, ordered a hotdog and beer and sat there for a while while these guys got bored and moved to the corner.

After I finished my dog and beer I got up and proceded to walk across the street toward Help and gave these guys a long stare. One guy said to the other "Ele fale Portuguese" and they walked away. After I stopped shaking I went into Help and forgot all about it.

Kmarxist

06-02-05, 03:04

I dont like BS but if you guys are really worried about your protection, I know a site that sells belt buckle knives. I ve been searched by cops here in the U.S. and other countries and they never find it. It looks like a regular belt buckle. I am not sure if I can post the site where to get them on here, so i wont but PM me if you are interested. I got the same hot temper these fools got so before they rob me they will be missing a eye or two. This knife is quick on the draw they will never know what hit them. The site also has a demo video.

Bubba Boy

06-02-05, 04:36

I have seen these guys quite a few times, they definitely look at you and size you up whether you are an easy target or not. Showing assertiveness is often enough to make these guys go away. One on one, weapons aside, they would not be a match for your average Help goer. Us tourists tend to have a big size advantage and they know it.

Hojo

06-02-05, 19:42

I went to Help last night, and on the way in I talked to one of the guys dressed up in a suit just inside the entrance door. This guy was an older man and possibly one of the managers. He speaks very good english.

I explaind to him my problem about the 4 guys staking people out on Rua Meguel Lemos and he proceded to walk me outside to introduce me to another guy in a suit getting taxis for people. The manager guy told me to talk to this guy when I was ready to leave, and arangements would be made for one of the security guards to walk me and my amiga to the apartment gate.

At 2:00 AM I did so, and me and my Amiga were escorted to the apartment gate as promissed by a very nice man named Georgio. Georgio definitly looks like someone you don´t want to make angry. Everything went as planned. I gave this guy $10R and thanked him.

The road was unusually barron. I think telling the manager at Help put things into motion to clean up that street.

I´m sure it is in Help´s best interest for turist to feel secure entering and leaving the area.

pop till you drop,
hojo

Havahopeful

06-02-05, 20:14

just returned from 9 days in rio. spent the first 2 days in copa the rest of the time in ipanema.

in copa i walked around during the day with no problems.

ipanema for the most part i walked day and night with no issues. in ipanema i was with my girlfriend that has lived there all her life. the only issues to report are the following:

late one night my friend was leaving barronoche to walk to our hotel at ipanama towers. he was alone and noticed 3 suspicious looking guys cross the street and start walking towards him, as they picked up speed he got into a run and ran down the street and jumped into a cab.

my girl tells me that she has never been robbed, however i did notice certain (when you think of them common sense things) she does to stay safe

1. crossed the street whenever someone suspicious is walking towards you, if they follow you at least have some distance to decide what to do.

2. never walk down certain streets. the street behind shenanigans is the beginning of a favela try to avoid walking down that street

JoshJosh69

06-02-05, 21:56

Well I arrive in 8 Miguel Lemos on Thursday next week, and I would appreciate the update and the doorman situation. I like to consider myself fairly tight with the Help security guys, as I have brought them numerous things from New York over the past 17 times I have been to Rio. Do I need them to take me there every night? Is numero oito far enough down the street that it takes more than 3 minutes to make the walk? I do not usually leave too late (ave about 2:30am, and I am not usually hammered beyond belief). In March I stayed on the little street that runs parallel to Ave. Atlantica and right behind MP. Everything was fine, however if this is a new group of guys, what gives? Please update or PM me. I am by the way reading a great book about Brasil called, "In the cities and jungles of brazil," by Paul Rambali. It covers recent (80's going forward) history in Brasil from an interesting perspective.

Macunaima

06-03-05, 15:00

Hojo,

I hate to break it to you, but you are DRASTICALLY overestimating Help's relative "pull" in the local Copacabana universe. They have trouble keeping their doorstep clean, let alone any place outside their immediate view. The guy simply was doing his best to calm the fears of a tourist, something the folks at Help have had a lot of practice with.

But don't kid yourself into thinking that Help is some major mover and shaker in the Copa underworld scene: it's just a disco, and a rather cheesy and run down one at that.

Even during Help's glory days under Ray Carrey, they probably wouldn't have had enough "oompf" to "clean a street" just so that a client could feel safe.

Rio Bob

06-03-05, 23:09

Well I arrive in 8 Miguel Lemos on Thursday next week, and I would appreciate the update and the doorman situation. Is numero oito far enough down the street that it takes more than 3 minutes to make the walk? .

8 Miguel Lemos is the corner building on Miguel Lemos and Ave Atlantica but the entrance is about 60 feet off the corner. If you leave at 2;30 am then there should still be activity outside but this is the slow season. Just leave Help, make a quick left walk fast and with purpose straight to your door, ring the bell and have the doorman buzz you in, I never had a problem .

Hojo

06-05-05, 17:07

Hojo,
I hate to break it to you, but you are DRASTICALLY overestimating Help's relative "pull" in the local Copacabana universe.

Hello Macunaima,

You are probably right, but I did notice that they had a police car parked near the front steps at 3:00 for two days in a row after I asked for help at Help.

The Police Car wasn't there late night the three nights I had trouble, but it is usually there up until about 1:00.

Also, when they called Georgio the security guard to walk with me and my amiga for the second time, he was standing at the main Road Avenida Atlantica facing in so that he could see the whole Miguel Limos area and the Help Area.

Does this help? I think its better than it was.

Does it show that they are giving a genuine effort to do what they can with what they have? I think so (IMHO).

As for other readers, I would like to take a step back and remind you that this is a special concern for people who are in accommodations within very near walking distance from Help. If you are staying in a place further away, get a cab and you won't have any problems.

Would I recommend an apartment near Help? Yes I would, but if you feel endangered, ask for a security guard to walk with you.

If you are NOT genetically built like an easy target, you probably won't have much to worry about.

pop till you drop,
hojo

Bubba Boy

06-06-05, 02:04

I think Macunaima missed the point. How hard would it be for Help to employ a team of 4 or so security guards to patrol the 2 streets that lead off Help - Miguel Lemos being the main problem. The total cost to Help would be R30 per security guard...cheap as chips. It wouldn't take any "pull" just a little bit of strategic thinking.

Kenn

06-06-05, 15:18

Macunaima

06-06-05, 19:10

bubba,

bsinessmen usually don't spill out cash simply because something's cheap: they spend when the expenditure is going to come back to them in more cash. hiring four guards to walk down the block with gringos won't stop assaults, nor will it make the place any safer and it certainly won't bring any return in terms of cash. this is why, although it's cheap, relatively speaking, it ain't going to be done.

plus you underestimate the costs of actually hiring someone to do this sort of thing. at 720 reais a month take home pay, help will actually be shelling out close to 1500 per month per guard, plus bennies. 6000 reais a month does put a noticeable dent in the earnings of place like help, no matter how small, especially in the off-season. and for no noticeable return, either. it's not like gringos are going to give the place a miss because of pick-pockets.

as for the cops in front of help, i've talked to them recently. they are there for two reasons. one is to squelch muggings and crime but the other reason, more important because this is what finally moved the city to place them there, is to go after tourists with **** pros.

JoshJosh69

06-06-05, 19:25

Help Disco has been in court with the owner of the land it sits on. As I understand it, Help Disco LOST their case and the owner has plans to put up condos in it's place. Help may have appealed the decision but who knows the future of the place.I have heard this too and it absolutely frightens the bejesus out of me. The word on the street is exactly what Kenn says, I don't know any more, but I can unfortunately confirm that I have heard this too. This would be horrible as I love the place. I just don't know what to do.

Revollaro

06-06-05, 23:37

I've only been to Rio twice, and Help once per trip, but I'm curious to hear the guesses of those with more Rio experience:

What are some likely existing alternative spots, besides MP, that people might gravitate to after Help closes (if it actually does). I mean, all those people aren't going to just up and disappear, are they?

Rio Bob

06-07-05, 01:55

Help Disco has been in court with the owner of the land it sits on. As I understand it, Help Disco LOST their case and the owner has plans to put up condos in it's place............... Help may have appealed the decision but who knows the future of the place........

Yes I heard this a while ago but I forgot about it and now here it is again. I guess nothing can last forever as Help has been around for over 20 years, it has been very enduring.

I remember when it first opened I went in there with a friend of mine, this had to be about 1983 or so and my friend said to me lets get out of here there are nothing but straight chicks in here. I guess the place wasn't overrun by hookers yet when it first opened up. If I remember correctly before Help existed most of the action was in the cafes along Ave Atlantica more so than today. In those days the cafes were packed with ladies not just one or 2 like today Meia pataca/mabs/balcony. And the quality was better, today most of the quality in the cafes is low.

If Help closes the girls will find another place, hopefully it will be another disco like help, there are some other clubs in Copa that can take its place or they will just hit the Cafes once again and all the action will be outside.

Of course you still have the boites like Barbarellas/Franks and so on and the Termas . Years ago ther was a large place called Club Erotica on Princessa Isabella blvd , there will be other options but I sure will miss Help.

Ezinho

06-07-05, 14:30

I'm not sure how well known this is, but many of the girls that work at Help at night work during the day at the massagem places in Centro; some other girls work Villa Mimosa, and other places in Zona Norte. I think its important to point out that the same girls charging R300 at Help will be accepting R30 for 30 min at these places. So even if Help does shut down, I don't see how this will affect mongering. If anything, it might make Av. Atlantica safer. On the bright side, maybe now I can finally go for a walk on the beach at night without the fear of being mugged lol.

Macunaima

06-07-05, 15:03

From humorist AGAMENON MENDES PEDREIRA in O Globo.

IBAMA [the Brazilian federal environmental agency] has officially announced the opening of the tourist hunting season! Every year, it's the same old story: Mother Nature cycle repeats itself: a bunch of German, Swedish, Belgian and English tourist band together with members of other alien nationalities and, like a flock of migratory birds, flap towards the city of Rio de Janeiro in order to deposit their eggs in Discoteca Help.

But they are unfortunately unable to escape from the law of the jungle which currently dominates our fair city. The poor tourists are hardly off the plane when they fall easy prey to the hordes of predators who, being that most are below the legal age limit, cannot be legally incorporated into the food chain. And it's not only the predators of the Complexo do Alemão which attack the defenceless tourists, but also piranhas, a fish commonly found in rivers (Rios) which latches on to the visitors with an insatiable appetite.

WoodYi

06-09-05, 02:37

...... but the other reason, more important because this is what finally moved the city to place them there, is to go after tourists with **** pros.kind of interesting. i was there a week ago and was appraoched at cafe altantico by 2 "ladies" who kept bugging me to go with them. they looked young and when i asked they said they were 19 and 20, which they could have been but who knows. i just laughed and walked away but they kept bugging me. i was just not interested.

Java Man

06-09-05, 20:39

Rio Bob

06-10-05, 03:40

Kenn:
does HELP's landlord also own the building next door to HELP?
if yes, perhaps Terraca Atlantica may also be forced to close.
if not, perhaps HELP's move into the area next door, the old Piano Bar area, might be an effort to keep the club open.
that entire corner i$ prime property. i can $ee why $omeone would want to redevelop it.

The piano bar area next door is a great choice but it is not big enough to take over Help unfortunately. There is a place in the Cassino shopping mall next to the Sofitel hotel, I forget its name maybe its Bombar but maybe we can find another big space.

Lets face it, Help is unique in the whole world, where else in this world can you find a club of this size that looks like a regular club but is for the most part a house of ill repuit.

I started going to Rio in 1980, I had been to Help in the 80's but not to monger , In the 80's I just mongered in the cafes or the boates in the lido district because I thought Help was just a regular Disco.

I stopped going to Rio in 1987 for personal reasons and then resumed again in 1997 and found Help in full bloom as a result of reading this WSG archives and I have been there ever since.

If Help closes which will be unfortunate for people like me but many mongers could care less if Help is open or not but there will still be a life there as these people are very resourceful and there will be places available for meeting.

There will be life after Help but it won't be the same as I really dug that techno music and watching those Brasilieras dance.

Kenn

06-10-05, 12:33

The Piano Bar has been closed for a long time now and the space WAS taken over by Help Disco. The owner of the property owns the whole thing, the restaurant Terracao Atlantico and Help Disco... When they decide to build everything will go.........

Papi Muy Rico

06-10-05, 20:12

My opinion is that if Help closes. It will reopen somewhere else in Copa-it would be very stupid for the owners not to do it.

The bottom line is: somebody will fill the void left by Help, whether is the same entrepreneur or a new one. There is a huge demand for that product and somebody will come up with a new ( or several new places) to satisfy the demand.

It would be exciting to see those new places. I think that whoever takes over would have the opportunity to address the negative issues surrounding the operation of Help (such as security in the sorroundings and such).

Change is good, necessary and healthy.

JoshJosh69

06-11-05, 20:14

Security at Help says they know nothing about the closing rumor and neither do the managers. Either that, or they are just not saying. Help is wonderful, not too crowded and always some gems in the rough.

Macunaima

06-12-05, 17:37

From O Globo, 12/11/05

"The Federal Police arrested 29 Americans suspected of sexual tourism last night (11/06/05). These men - guilty or not, mind - now have to leave the country in three days. The group was on the schooner Shangrilá, leaving the Gloria marina with 40 prostitutes and a photographer (also American) on board. Aside from being suspected of sexual tourism, THE AMERICANS WERE ALSO WITHOUT THEIR DOCUMENTS [remember that I advised people below that this is technically a crime in Brazil and can be used to deport people from the country].

"One of the group's members, [Deleted by Admin], has been held at the Federal Police in Praça Mauá, acused of being an agent for sexual tourism. He had previously been indicted in 2003 [note that indicted DOES NOT MEAN "found guilty of"] for sexual expçloitation of minors.

"The police received an anonymous denunciation via telephone that the Americans were organizaing a party with prostitutes and drugs on the schooner. Inspector Felício Laterça, of the Operational Nucleus of the Imigration Precinct for Rio de Janeiro, did not find any minors, drugs or proof that sexual exploitation was underway on the boat. The women, all workers at a Copacabana nightspot, were all released yesterday.

"We are fighting seual tourism in Brazil and Graham will be indicted for sexual eploitation', says the Inspector."

Macunaima's take on this:

First of all, my wife and I have been seeing a guy who looks an awful lot like [Deleted by Admin] in front of Help with American tourists, obviously taking them around back and forth, for several months now. If he's this obvious to two anthros - completely outside of the sexual tourism scene - then he's even more obvious to the cops and malandros on the pavement. If [Deleted by Admin] or ANYBODY who's reading this who was involved with this bust could get in touch with me via e-mail, anonymously, I would love to have some more details. It seems to me that what's occurring here is if very duboius legality and rests upon completely unconstitutional dispositions in Brazilian law which stipulate differential treatment for foreigners. This is my balliwick and something I am working very hard, legally, to fight against. I don't need witnesses for court or anything like that: at this point, I would just like some background WITH NO NAMES OR SENSITIVE DATA. Simply a report of what the police actually did.

I realize people are probably nervous about this - and very rightly so - but again, I need no identifying details. Anthropological work is different from legal or journalistic work. What I need to do is establish what the police procedures are in something like this because, of course, the Feds do not report what they do, nor their illegal abuses of the system.

In the first place, as far as I can see, there was NOTHING illegal about any of this unless [Deleted by Admin] was charging the women a percentage, which he'd be very stupid to do and I'm sure he didn't.

What it boils down to is that a rival of [Deleted by Admin] probably called in to denounce his operation. Though [Deleted by Admin] will almost certainly go free, his 29 tourists are kicked out of the country due to a loophole in the law which has been standing since the days of Getulio Vargas: to whit, a foreigner must always walk around with ID documents or risk being deported.

The cops themselves admit that no pimping or seual abuse of minors was taking place. The only CONCEIVABLE basis for the "sexual tourism" charge, then, is the photographer (who probably didn't have time to snap any shots and was thus unable to be charged with "pornography") and Ken's supposed "exploitation" of these women (which is very, very unlikely if he's a smart operator).

Note, too, the coy little reference to "being indicted for sexual exploitation of minors" which - I presume - occurred in reference to another bust of this type which made the papers back in 2003. Note that in this incident (if it is the same one) the "minor" in question turned out to be over 20 and all charges were hastily dropped.

This is the new face of "anti-secual tourism repression" in Rio. If Ken had been Brazilian, NONE of the charges they are trying to stick on him wopuld apply. If his customers had been Brazilian, they'd all be free and walking the streets with no legal problems whatsoever.

This, gentlemen, is pure and utter bullshit and it deserves to be fought. I am not a monger, but this sort of thing can be used against ANY gringo. It is essentially guilt by association with a prostitute, no proof needed or desired as to whether or not "exploitation" occured. ("exploitation", btw, is legally defined as pimping in Brazil - a person has a constitutionally protected right to do whatever they like with their body, including sell it.)

So again, if anyone involved in this incident coud drop me a line - once again, WITHOUT info such as names, etc. - I'd be much obliged.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending the removal of the names or persons who were arrested from in the text. To avoid delays in future reports containing news stories of law enforcement actions, please remove or otherwise delete the names of persons who were arrested. Thanks!

JoshJosh69

06-12-05, 19:59

Last night´s bust is now the talk of the town down here, but I don´t know enough about it to comment. I feel bad for the poor guys tat are going to get kicked out though. That sucks. Got the shit on the shoe scam again the other day (I usually see the bastards before they do it, but I missed them this time). Otherwise, it seems like everything is okay as far as crime and safety, nothing new.

Vatel69

06-12-05, 21:37

My take on the bust.
1. Probably someone(competition) tipped the police.
2. A girl that wanted to be there but didn´t get a chance.
3. The charges all dependent on how people answered to some of the questions of the police.
4. By law, prostitution is not illegal but the exploitation is. So if only one person told the police that the organizers was paid in full for the whole thing. He can be charged by law.

Bottom line is that he either was trying to cut some of the money or he stepped on someone shoes big time.

Java Man

06-13-05, 00:13

the 28 americans were fined R828/$340USD for not having there travel documents, and ordered to leave Brazil in three days!! they can't return to rio anytime soon, as their visits are now limited.

my take:
i've been on that boat cruise before.
admission includes music, food and drink, and the charms of one lady of your choice. no money is exchanged between the men and women. if, you wish to go another round, you have to negotiate that with the woman. the women do not give any of their money to the promotor.

if they're serious about shutting down the sex tourism, the termas and boates are next. also a major change in Brazil's prostitution law is required. TOO MUCH $$$$$$ IS BEING MADE. I DO NOT SEE THAT HAPPENING.

a question for Macunaima:
what document should a carry on my person?
i carry a copy of my passport at all times, but leave the visa entrance paper i get from the PM at the apartment/hotel. (i dont know the exact name for it, but it's the one that's returned upon exit from the country.) i'm always afraid i'll lose it. does this satisfy the letter of the law?
here's the pic from OGLOBO:

Perkele

06-13-05, 05:42

What document should a carry on my person?

I carry a copy of my passport at all times, but leave the visa entrance paper i get from the PM at the apartment/hotel. (i dont know the exact name for it, but it's the one that's returned upon exit from the country.) i'm always afraid i'll lose it. does this satisfy the letter of the law?

Here's the pic from OGLOBO:By the law you have to carry passport with all relevant documents proving your entrance to the country. Photocopy is not accepted.

Simple as that.

P

Sperto

06-13-05, 14:37

By the law you have to carry passport with all relevant documents proving your entrance to the country. Photocopy is not accepted.

Simple as that.

P

Perkele and Chingon,
Just a simple photocopy of your passport isn't accepted.
Walking around with your passport isn´t very comfortable.
There is a simple way to solve the problem.

1. Go to a Cartório with your passport.
2. They make a photocopy (preferably the side with photo and the side with entrance-stamp).
3. Then the cartório will put their stamp and sign it to prove it's authentic.
4. Let them plastify the photocopy.
You will have a small ID that you can fold and put in your pocket. The cost is, more or less, R$ 10. This ID is accepted if the police demands to see your ID.

Johnny Darko

06-13-05, 14:49

Sperto,

Excuse my ignorance but what is exactly a Cartório?

Johnny

Sal Dali

06-13-05, 16:04

1. Go to a Cartório with your passport.This is a great idea. Now, what/what are "Cartórios."

S

Macunaima

06-13-05, 16:31

An OFFICIAL copy of your passport and entry documents, made in a cartório, should resolve your problems.

If this is anything like Mr. Anonymous' 2003 bust, it was a pissed-off competitor that turned him in.

The main crime here, I must point out, is being a gringo and being involved in the sex industry. Again, if Mr. Anon was Brazilian, it would have been very hard to pin anything on him.

JoshJosh69

06-13-05, 17:56

So the muggers that were being discussed a couple of days ago were out in full force last night at 7:30 in the evening. They are in cohoots with the beggers in front of MP. I am staying on the 9th floor facing both the ocean and the corner and for an hour I watched them set up lone white tourists. One would approach and distract and the other would come and try to grab a watch or jewelry. I don´t think they got anything, but the police showed up and they ran onto the street behind Help The police let off two shots and I saw all the civilians duck into the cafe on the corner. The cops missed the kid they were gunning for and he took off onto the beach with the cop running after him. There was no way they were going to catch the kid, so he got away. Their base is on the corner of Miguel Lemos on both sides and also across the street on the beach opposite MP. They appear to be 16-18 years old, thin and black and wear red tank tops and grey tank tops. There is also one who wears a white hat backwards. When I left Help at 2:00, there was no one there on the corner. Again, they are friends with the MP beggers that are always there. Consider that next time they ask for money. I haven´t been to MP too much, but I enjoy watching the scene from the window. The harassment seems to be coming to a crecendo. And brazen robbery attempts at 7:30 pm seems a little desperate.

Be careful out there folks.

Java Man

06-13-05, 19:11

sperto:
that begs a 2 questions:
where is Cartorio?
is that like a kinko's?

Sperto

06-13-05, 20:15

sperto:
that begs a 2 questions:
where is Cartorio?
is that like a kinko's?

Cartório= notary's office
Several of them to be found for example in Copacabana.

KnifeFish

06-13-05, 21:39

The boat bust,

It was obvious something like that would happen. Over the last few years too many rude people have been coming to Rio and upsetting the locals with their rude big headed behaviour. Don't some people know how to be discreet. So many guys sitting at cafes on Copacabana shouting "hey man, check the booty on that *****" while referring to a 16 yo walking with her family. Meanwhile his buddies are all pointing there little Sony handycams at her with there tongues hanging out.

Other times I've seen similar behaviour in Rio Sul where a group of guys will just stop and stare into a shop at one of the girls while making lots of loud obvious comments. What happened to being polite, it gets you a lot further!

Take 28 guys and an equal number of working girls to the marina, what do you think is going to happen? Who do you think owns the yachts there? The rich and powerful of Rio, do they want these jerks acting like asses wandering about raising hell? No.

El Austriaco

06-13-05, 21:43

Got a phone call from Rio yesterday regarding this incident, and decided to check out O Globo to confirm. Can't see the article any more today, but I remember very vividly that the tourists were to be charged with violation of Articles 227, 228, 229 and 230 of the Brazilian Penal Code. Here they are (in my translation):

CHAPTER V
PIMPING AND TRAFFICKING IN WOMEN

Brokering to Serve the Lasciviousness of Others

Art. 227 – Inducing someone to satisfy the lasciviousness of others:

Penalty - incarceration between one and three years.

§ 1º - In case the victim is more than fourteen and less than eighteen years of age, or in case the perpetrator is an ascending or descending relative, husband, brother, guardian or curator or a person to which the victim has been entrusted for purposes of education, treatment or guardianship:

Penalty - incarceration between two and five years.

§ 2º - In case the crime is committed by using violence, serious threat or fraud:

Penalty - incarceration between two and eight years, in addition to the corresponding penalty for violence.

§ 3º - In case the crime is committed for the purpose of gaining a profit, a fine also applies.

Favoring Prostitution

Art. 228 - Inducing or attracting someone to prostitution, facilitating it or preventing someone from abandoning prostitution:

Penalty - incarceration from two and five years.

§ 1º - In the case of any of the circumstances defined under § 1º of the preceding article:

Penalty - incarceration from three to eight years.

§ 2º - In case the crime is committed by using violence, serious threat or fraud:

Penalty - incarceration from four to ten years, in addition to the corresponding penalty for violence.

§ 3º - In case the crime is committed for the purpose of gaining a profit, a fine also applies.

Prostitution House

Art. 229 - Maintaining, whether on one’s own account or for a third party, a prostitution house or a place aimed at meetings for a libidinous purpose, regardless of whether there is any intention of gaining a profit or direct brokering by the owner or manager:

Penalty - incarceration from two and five years, plus fine.

Pimping (Rufianismo)

Art. 230 – Taking advantage of the prostitution of a third party, participating directly in its profits or having oneself maintained, whether as a whole or in part, by whoever engages in prostitution:

Penalty - incarceration between one and four years, and fine.

§ 1º - In the case of any of the circumstances defined in § 1º of Art. 227:

Penalty - incarceration from three to six years, in addition to a fine.

§ 2º - In case violence or serious threat is used:

Penalty - incarceration from two and eight years, in addition to a fine and without prejudice to the corresponding penalty for violence.

My Rio source also told me that the person allegedly running this operation is a regular at Help seeking women to take them out of the country for "foreign employment". Might have something to do with it. My two centavos worth.

El Austriaco

Member #4156

06-14-05, 02:01

The boat bust,

It was obvious something like that would happen. Over the last few years too many rude people have been coming to Rio and upsetting the locals with their rude big headed behaviour. Don't some people know how to be discreet. So many guys sitting at cafes on Copacabana shouting "hey man, check the booty on that *****" while referring to a 16 yo walking with her family. Meanwhile his buddies are all pointing there little Sony handycams at her with there tongues hanging out.So what if those guys were saying such things? It's not like the girl could understand a word of bad slanglish anyway. And Im pretty sure they weren't saying anything like "Que Maravilha, Olhe aquela bunda lá."

LOL! I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.

Perkele

06-14-05, 07:31

Perkele and Chingon,
Just a simple photocopy of your passport isn't accepted.
Walking around with your passport isn´t very comfortable.
There is a simple way to solve the problem.

1. Go to a Cartório with your passport.
2. They make a photocopy (preferably the side with photo and the side with entrance-stamp).
3. Then the cartório will put their stamp and sign it to prove it's authentic.
4. Let them plastify the photocopy.
You will have a small ID that you can fold and put in your pocket. The cost is, more or less, R$ 10. This ID is accepted if the police demands to see your ID.Funny enough, in Rio cartorio refused to do this. They said that they can't do it because original (Passport) wasn't BRASILIAN document. Tried in several cartorios. 2003 there was no problems when doing that.

Maybe had something to do with the fact that I didn't have a visa in my passport.

P

El Mujerista

06-14-05, 17:17

The passport issue seems like a convenient charge for the cops to level against someone they already had it in for. Even if the guys who were busted had carried their full passports, the police likely would have come up with something else.

I had my mobile phone nicked by some wanker on Rua Siqueira Campos on my last visit. I chased the little bastard and he was eventually apprehended by the Policia Militar at the corner with Nossa Senhora de Copacabana. I got the phone back but had to go to the Tourist Police station in Ipanema to file a report. I did not have my passport nor even the copy I usually carry. All I had was the little card that came with it, which served little purpose than to help remember the number. The police had no problems with this. There was no admonishment or even friendly advice that "you really should carry your passport."

Happy Hunting,
EM

Sperto

06-14-05, 17:42

Funny enough, in Rio cartorio refused to do this. They said that they can't do it because original (Passport) wasn't BRASILIAN document. Tried in several cartorios. 2003 there was no problems when doing that.

Maybe had something to do with the fact that I didn't have a visa in my passport.

P

I don´t know why the cartórios denied you. Me and my friends never had any problems. We used several different cartórios. Last time in January. Their job is just to certify that the photocopy is identical with your passport. Your visa is none of their business.

Java Man

06-14-05, 18:08

Sperto:
do you remember which cartorio you went to?
i'll be in Rio at the end of the month. :D
thanks

Sperto

06-14-05, 18:56

Sperto:
do you remember which cartorio you went to?
i'll be in Rio at the end of the month. :D
thanks

In Copacabana you'll find one close to Rua Santa Clara/Av N S Copacabana. At least two more further down (towards Princess Isabel) on Av N S Copacabana.

For certain you have one at Rua Visconde de Pirajá 550 (downstairs). It's in a Galleria with Surf shops etc.

Just ask around for a cartório. I hope you have better luck than Perkele.

Kenn

06-15-05, 14:28

Copacabana...

503 Barata Ribeiro......

895 Av. Nossa Senhora de Copacabana...

248 Prado Junnior....

Ipanema...

550 Visconde Piraja

82 Visconde Piraja

Cuba Tourist

06-16-05, 06:44

I do not understand why Brazil would do this. Surely they benefit from encouraging tourism?

Sunset

06-18-05, 07:56

Kenn

06-18-05, 14:49

Anyone walking alone on Av. Atlantica at 1AM is looking for trouble. If you look for it, it will find you. Especially if you got mugged before !!!!

Why you people don't take cabs is beyond me......

Monger 3

06-19-05, 04:39

Same Time Same Spot.

Walking from Mabs half way to Balcony, 1:00 am, Wednesday. The street kids, five of them, came fast from behind. I was surrounded so I just raised my arms and let them have their way with my pockets. My loss was sixty one reis, about twenty five dollars and another six dollars to copy my keys. Fortunately I'd left my cell at home. I was prepared. If you're not take a taxi.Be glad it wasnt worse! I was in Rio last week and never had a problem. but, I was also in a cab the second I stepped outta my apartment or club or bar after 10pm. these kids are really hungry bro...and if you look like a mark, you are toast. and f*ck the cops. I wouldnt be surprised if they got a cut and endorsed that sh*t.

I know worse has happened. In a city like Rio, be glad you can write about it to us.

For general notes, the area around Balcony, going toward Leme gets really sketch. avoid it like the plague without a cab. Same goes for Rua Miguel Lemos and Djama Ulrich. I saw two guys lurking there waiting for a mark one night while I had a few at a bar on the corner. Dudes even waved at me when I noticed they were marking some drunk waiting to make a wrong step.

KnifeFish

06-19-05, 04:39

I do not understand why Brazil would do this. Surely they benefit from encouraging tourism?The money brought in my the mongers just doesn't register on the scale. The other thing is that the Brazilian Authorities are pretty xenophobic, especially when it comes to those from the US. They and the media there love to put the US down, seems thesedays an American can't fart in Copacabana without it making the front page of Oglobo. Think of that raid on the boat more of a propoganda mission than cleaning up the streets. Lula is up for relection next year, expect more of the same in the next 12 months.

Is it just me or are the Brazilian media obscessed with the value of the R$ vs the Dollar? When it goes up or down, it seems to make the front page, but does it change anything for the normal Brazilian? Interest rates are currently 19.75% in Brazil, I guess that hurts more. Seems that they think the only barometer of the economy is how strong the R$ is against the dollar and screw anything else no matter how much it hurts.

Ezinho

06-19-05, 16:21

so I just raised my arms and let them have their way with my pockets. Thats funny, thats the same thing I do when I´m in a boite, lol!

Zorglub

06-19-05, 19:09

Same Time Same Spot.

Walking from Mabs half way to Balcony, 1:00 am, Wednesday. The street kids, five of them, came fast from behind. I was surrounded so I just raised my arms and let them have their way with my pockets. My loss was sixty one reis, about twenty five dollars and another six dollars to copy my keys. Fortunately I'd left my cell at home.
I was prepared. If you're not take a taxi.That place between Mabs and Balcony has been bad for quite some time now.

When I was there last november tourists were mugged almost every night at that very spot with the police doing nothing.
A friend of mine has been mugged the year before at this spot also.

As for taking a cab from Mabs to Balcony, those places are so close to each other that I don`t know if a cabdriver will want to take you.

I use to go around the block ,(longer walk) , when I was there at this time of the night to avoid the group of youth always hanging around and never had any problems.

Smily59

06-26-05, 18:20

Advice needed!

Together with a friend I´m going to visit the Cocoa Coast Bahia ( Itacare, Ilheus, Olivença, Una, Canavieiras ) in august. We want to visit a friend, who lives over there since some years.Besides Mongering we want to travel by bus and see the Mata Atlântica, cocoa plantage and cities.

So trouble started, when we were unable to phone him. In the meantime his parents let us know, that he got robbed in his own house with wife and kid being around.

Beforehand we thought, that Brazil bears some risks, but doable if you are not stupid. Now we are a little bit worried, if it is wise to go there although the flight already is arranged.

Any advice of experienced travellers and locals is very much appreciated, even it´s only from newspaper.

Has the safety of the area changed?

Should we not go by bus?

Should we stay clear and go to Rio or Fortaleza instead?

Any mongering info also welcome!

Amerioca

07-13-05, 05:47

Has the safety of the area changed?

No.

Should we not go by bus?

Fly

Should we stay clear and go to Rio or Fortaleza instead?

Bahia sucks. Go to Rio. Never been to Fortaleza.

Perkele

07-13-05, 08:45

Has the safety of the area changed?

No.

Should we not go by bus?

Fly

Should we stay clear and go to Rio or Fortaleza instead?

Bahia sucks. Go to Rio. Never been to Fortaleza.Been in Rio and been in Fortaleza. Not worth going, unless you want shitload of tourists and desert. Fortaleza is fuckin poor city, absolutely nothing to do and no JUICE bars where you can get salgados and juices.

P

Exec Talent

07-22-05, 17:38

I had the crap on the shoe trick pulled on me yesterday which can lead to robbery, but in my case was just a pain in the butt. It got me to thinking what I could have done to prevent it. Here is why I think it happened. I was having a very animated conversation with a friend paying no attention whatsoever to what was going on around me. That is usually not the case especially when walking with my girlfriend who is always on the alert.

My advice is this -- save your conversation for indoors. When you are on the streets, keep focused on getting to where you are going safely. When I leave Help with a girl, I stop in front and explain exactly what I am doing and where we are going. I don't talk with her again until in the cab. BTW, I have found a driver who seems to always park at an angle on the streets next to and in front of Bob's. He is dark skinned and has a distinctive Leon Spinks split in his front teeth. He has been honest, reliable and most importantly gets me the hell out of there in a hurry.

The Alphabet

07-23-05, 22:56

Last month my buddy and I were coming out of the German restaurant behind Bobs when some punk came up and started asking me if I spoke Portuguese. Just then about six other little punks started running down the street towards us. I pushed the punk that was in my face against the wall and pulled my knife. My buddy jumped out into the middle of the street and he pulled his knife also. I guess they didn’t want to get stabbed so they took off. One older punk continued to follow us in the middle of the street as we walked down the sidewalk for a few feet. I stopped and walked into the street. He then turned around and took off.

A week later we had a couple of guys out of a group of five start to come at us as we were walking from Mabs to Balcony. As soon as they started towards us we pulled our knives and they stopped. One of them then asked my buddy for a cigarette which he gave him. After that we had no problems with any of those guys when we saw them again.

I guess my point is always stay alert and be prepared. Let them know that you know what’s up. These guys don’t want to get stabbed any more than you want to get robbed.

Enjoy,

The Alphabet

Sting

07-24-05, 10:41

Hey Man...

It is your first post what you have written. Well, you not grew up in Brazil and you don't know the culture or mentality even i guess you not speak the language very well.If you think you can handle the situation with a knife then you can count the days in your life until the right gang is coming up to you. The most gang don't take care if you have a knife or not. When the right gang come up to you and they will see your knife. they will not ask you they will shoot you down. What you have done was the stupidest thing what you can do. The other forum should not do the same thing...

Starfe

07-24-05, 17:49

I think I'm going to carry a knife also.

Been watching West Side Story to get some knife handling tips. I also recommend that everyone practice throwing knives to get the proper feel of the weapon.

You get some great advice reading these boards.

Macunaima

07-24-05, 19:22

"Been watching West Side Story to get some knife handling tips...."

Oh, dear lord.

West Side Story, huh? Is that the same training film the U.S. Special Forces use?

My thoughts on this are the following: there is no reason for you to arm yourself when walking around town unless you happen to have some sort of psychological problem which equates "being a man" with "taking no shit off of no asshole".

Figure it out, folks.

Let's presume that you actually have some training with that knife of yours. Even the best knife-fighter is going to be at a loss when it comes to getting blind-sided by three guys. If you're aware of your surroundings, the chances of you getting blind-sided by your average gang of street punks are pretty low, anyhow. If someone DID get the drop on you, it's very likely that either a) you're drunk or otherwise oblivious to what's going on around you, or b) the guy in question is a real pro. In either case, you're in no position to begin a knife fight, no matter your training. And in both cases, you'll almost certainly be outnumbered anyhow.

So what good is that knife of yours, exactly? Well, it might frighten off lightweights if you see them coming and pull it out in time. Then again, if you can see them coming and they are lightweights, all you need to do is run across the street or even just stand your ground and look them in the eye, making it plain you know what's up and are ready to tussle. So you can easily get out of a bad situation that involves lightweights without your knife.

Now, if you have the misfortune to run up against a gang of pitboys or idiots that are stoked to the gills on coke and andreniline, all your knife is going to do is make them laugh and escalate the situation. If you run into this kind of gang and pull a knife, odds are that you'll very quickly be looking down the barrel of a 9mm. And after they take your wallet, they might just ram your little blade straight up your asshole to teach you a lesson.

Here's a cheaper and safer 5 point self defence plan that's almost guaranteed to work in Rio.

1) Carry little cash, less than 100 reais. If you have to carry more, divide it up between your pockets or even stick some in your sock. If you have to carry a lot, or expensive equipment, don't walk: take a cab.

2) Dress down. You guys are hitting the pros anyhow. Do you think they care if you're dressed to the nines with a shit-load of bling dripping off your neck? All they want is the money, honey. They do not worry in the slightest how you are dressed. Save the conspicuous consumption MTV fashions for cities where the police actually work for a living.

3) Be aware of where you are and what you're doing when you are walking around. Switch sidewalks if things seem iffy. Don't be afraid to sprint in order to get yourself out of an impending ambush. If a gang has to run after you or even just come at you all from the same side, without being able to surround you, they will most likely give you up. After all, there'll probably be easier prey along in a few minutes.

4) For Christ's sake, DON'T talk loudly in a foreign language when you're walking about.

5) If all else fails and you DO get mugged, smile, act calmly and cheerfully fork over your cash. 100 reais is a hell of a lot less than you'd pay for a quality knife, anyhow. And just think of all the money you'll save on rental fees for West Side Story... (roll eyes).

Not wanting to encourage boys who've watched too much Hollywood violence and not enough of the real thing and who believe that they can learn how to fight by watching movies, let me suggest that an EXCELLENT film regarding knife fighting and Brazil is the 1991 production of "A High Art". This has probably the most realistic knife fighting scenes I've ever watched on the silver screen and it's set in RdJ. A good film, even if its plot is kinda vague.

RonnyRon

07-24-05, 21:38

Hey Macunaima,

I think Starfe was joking. Lighten up a little. Your advice is still very good. Don't know why someone on their very first post would brag about carrying a knife in Rio, I mean the police are afraid to go into the favalas, because of the fire power these guys have. What ever you do don't try this in RIO.

RonnyRon

Pluto2

07-24-05, 21:43

Got some great advice from a security consultant when I arrived in SP. We chatted while waiting for customs.

Plan A
1. Don't walk alone late at night.

2. If you are being followed, duck into a restaurant quickly.

3. If you are cornered, let them have what they want. Otherwise the gang will carve you to pieces with their knives, and then take it.

Plan B
Carry a gun, and then try to explain to the Brazilian authorities why you shot two of their teenage citizens who were only asking for cigarette money, as all of their friends will attest. $50K-100K later you may be allowed to leave the country

Twilod

08-25-05, 21:10

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil - An 80-year-old woman filmed drug traffickers near her Copacabana beach apartment for two years and delivered 22 films to police, triggering a massive raid against a slum drug gang, officials said Wednesday.
Police arrested 15 suspected traffickers, including two Rio de Janeiro state police officers, and are searching for others identified in the films, said Marcela Lobo of Rio's Public Safety Secretariat.

The woman, identified only as Vitoria for her protection, has left the apartment she lived in for 38 years and is under police protection, Lobo said.

The films, shot from her apartment window facing the Tabajaras hillside shantytown, show drug traffickers with automatic rifles and submachine guns, and vendors shouting out drug prices in an open-air market.

Police said they also show people of all ages, including children apparently under 10, buying and snorting cocaine.

JustGotBack

08-26-05, 08:07

Scotty Monger

08-26-05, 20:00

I justgotback last Wednesday & it is the same, IMHO. I had no problems whatsoever. I firmly believe that 99% of the crime & saftey problems that tourists have when travelling abroad are caused by themselves & their actions.

Just use your street smarts & you will be fine.

Monger 3

08-27-05, 18:32

monger3, the thug muggers waved at you? i would have stuck my middle finger at those homo thugs.they didnt wave like a kansas tourist at disney world. i was just peeping their game, and they nodded as if they noticed that i noticed their hustle. i wasnt exactly a mark at 6'4 and 350lbs...but i wasnt bulletproof, so i didnt wanna start some sh*t i couldn't finish. it was pretty clear after being born and raised in the south bronx that they were just waiting for the right drunk moron to sumble down the wrong street. not a brazilian with no cash, and not a *not-so-easy* target that peeped their game from a mile away. they dont need to hit one everyday. shit, they hit one once a week, and thats already twice as good as a minimum wage job, which are far and few between for brazil's underbelly! they were operating like the misfits fooliani mopped off the streets of nyc a decade ago. that bastard!

Carlos Primeros

08-28-05, 21:12

The main problem in Brazil is not only the muggers, robbers and the like but the police. Often they even work together with these hudlums and get a share out of it.

The worst is the PM, after that comes the traffic police. The PF is not so bad but they get for Brazilian standards very well paid.

That is my experience - keep a low profile and keep on mongering.

Carlos

Member #4156

08-29-05, 00:40

You guys are freaking me out again. I was freaked out last year before I went to Rio the first time and found that it wasn't nearly as bad as this thread makes it out to be. I stayed a couple of blocks away from the beach around the corner from Help. The heart of the don't walk alone here area. I walked alone there everynight until about 3 or 4am. Sometimes I was just bored and looped the hood. Never had a problem. It's not exactly a ghost town ever. There are those little hole the wall bars and sidewalk cafes everywhere that even middle class looking people hang out in at all hours. There are a lot of shady looking characters hanging about thought. I would just look them in the eye and say hi when I walked by.

Have things gotten that much worse or is it the same as a year ago?I just came off a 15 day stay in Copa and I stayed on Rua Bolivar. I did the same thing as you did walking the streets from 1 til 3 in the morning. I even spent the night at this girls house in Leme and walked down the hills down Avenida Atlantica well after 4:00 in the morning. I never had a problem. Kept running into the same kids with them dirty ass hands and the same shoe shine boxes. I was more afraid of them than someone trying to mug me. LOL!

Exec Talent

08-31-05, 14:51

Last evening I put in an all-nighter at Monte Carlo. It was closing time (around 2:00 AM) and my apartment is literally 3 blocks away. I decide to walk it. Bad decision. I turn the corner and there is a gang of guys. I cross the street and one of them goes ahead right where I will be walking. I ducked into a hotel and asked them to call a taxi. Taxi ended up taking me 2 blocks. Couple bucks to be sure I was safe.

Exec Talent

08-31-05, 20:39

Funk,

The reason I posted this is because it always goes through my mind that it is only 3 blocks, I like to walk, I don't like living in fear, etc. I walk around Rio all the time and my apartment is in a pretty safe area. However, the truth is quite simply this -- Take a taxi regardless.

I see posts on here all the time by guys saying it is safe and generally they are right. However, it just takes one time. I don't know if the 8-10 guys (some white) would have been too worried if I was 6' 10". Knives usually win and my bet is they were packing.

My hope is that people reading this will think, hey I had a little too much to drink or it is late and I really should take a taxi.

Member #4156

08-31-05, 21:20

Keldeson,

Are you a big guy around 6-2 to 6-5 range 220 to 250? Seems they dont mess with the big cats just the weak looking people.

Exec talent,

Why did you walk in the first place so late? Seems to be a crapshoot when those wanna be thugs are gonna be out so dont get caught in that numbers game, Just use the taxi's at your disposal and give those dirtbags the middle finger while you ride by laughing.Yes you're about right. I was concerned about my safety but that was only in Zona Norte. LOL! Man. I only took two cabs from Help. 1 was my first night because I was listening to what everybody was saying on the board, the 2 was the night me and this chick went to Lido.

Actually, I told a garota that I was scared to walk to my apartment one night and she said they're not going to bother you. Just the elders and the short people. I ran into this guy at the internet cafe one afternoon and he told me that there are 5 thieves that hang out on Migel Lemos every night. Well, if there were thieves, they could be no older than 12. LOL!

My philosophy was, and I told my Brasilian friend when we walked from Help one night, "Anybody tries to rob me they'll be practicing." I kept nearly no money on me and I had hidden so many hidden compartments in my pants so anybody who was willing to put their knife or gun to me would've been strenghthening thier skills for the next jon.

Take a cab if you're scared.

JustGotBack

09-01-05, 05:48

I wasn't messed with and I'm not a big guy. In fact everyone thinks I need to gain weight. I am fit though. People are amazed that I can lift a 150lbs TV and move it around like it's nothing. But you can't tell that by looking at me.

I think it's more the way you act. A lot of the tourist act like scared prey. And that's what they end up being, prey. I walk everywhere like I belong and I know what I'm doing. Even if I'm completely lost I walk like I know where I am.

Are you a big guy around 6-2 to 6-5 range 220 to 250? Seems they dont mess with the big cats just the weak looking people.

Gipse

09-01-05, 07:37

Yes, there is some risk associated with walking around late at night in Copa but the paranoia is magnifying the reality.

I have been to Rio many times (not in the past couple of years). I have always walked around late at night leaving Help, Barbarella, or whereever without any incidence. I am cautious so I don't walk down dark alleys and change my route if I see unsavory characters. Like someone before said what they do, I also walk around as if I belong.

On the other hand, one night at 2:00a I did see a street flight with two guys going at it two blocks from Help, and then there was a beer bottle that missed me by a few inches while walking by the places near Barbarella. I was not the target, the guy just had bad aim.

The real crime is committed by the garotas when you end up paying for classes she never takes, medical treatments for her healthy relatives, operations that never happen, or other made up emergencies.

Exec Talent

09-01-05, 19:33

I was walking back from Monte Carlo heading toward Siqueira Campos. It is a large street but with limited activity at 2:00 AM. The only people out were the street cleaners and this gang of 8-10 guys. I put the street cleaners between us and ducked into the hotel and asked them to call a cab.

My point is that next time I am at Monte Carlo I will take a cab just like I do when I am at L'uomo even though my apartment is only three blocks from MC.

Some of you guys are really into who is bigger and stronger. I grew up on a farm throwing bales of hay around, but I am not interested in taking on 8-10 guys in the street at 2:00 AM.

The purpose of this thread is to provide other people information which will help to keep them safe. No paranoia on my part. I was admittedly stupid not to take a cab right from Monte Carlo. Next time I will and advise other people (regardless of size) when leaving Monte Carlo to do the same.

Gipse

09-01-05, 20:42

Exec Talent, you made the wise decision. I would have done the same. No reason to tempt fate.

I am neither very tall (5'9''), nor very big (180 lbs), nor very strong (no bulge). I have never been in a fight nor do I plan to be in one. So when I see a group of guys hanging around at a corner at night (especially 12-14 years old - 'City of God'), I walk on the other side of the street, walk on a different street, or take a taxi depending on the situation in any metropolitan city: Rio, Buenos Aires, Madrid, New York, Chicago, etc.

I was just commenting on the perception that Rio-Copa becomes this scary town with danger lurking on every corner at night. It is no more or no less dangerous at night than New York, Chicago, or some of the other international cities.

JohnnyBlazze

09-05-05, 16:26

Gentlemen,
I will be in Rio at the end of sept and will be staying in an apt at Rua Djalma Ulrich in Copacabana. I was looking for this strret on a map somehwer but had no luck so far. Could anypne tell me what cross street Help is on, and how far away it is from Rua Djalma Ulrich. I am trying to make a list if all the places I go to and their street addresses - so far I have no addresses, just names. Any assistance would be appreciated. Also if any associates will be in Cocacabana the last week in Sept, and want to meet up for a drink - let a brotha know.

Regards,
Johnny B

Rio Bob

09-05-05, 18:09

Rio Bob

09-05-05, 20:21

Just make sure you dont get a apartment from www.gringomanagement.com he has some on rua dharma ulrich and it was disgusting roaches and stinking bathroom. Just walk down towards the beach and you hit help.

Well he has apts on that corner building on Djalma but I would suspect that roaches are a problem for the most part of the building not the apartment, so if he is renting in the same building then most likely I would suspect it has roaches.

I have rented several apts in Rio and once I did see roaches, it upset me, couldn't sleep, ill never stay in that apt or building again, but I believe it is a building problem.

Think about it most of these apts we rent don't have food in them and the roaches are looking for food, so why are they in the apt , its the neighbors who are causing them. These cheap rental apts are in old buildings and I mentioned it to an agent once and she said that the roaches are our friends, she made fun of it , I didn't like it.

Now I stay in an apt several times already and haven't seen a roach but when I do Im moving out and never coming back. Once the cleaning lady in another apt, when I told her I saw a roach told me she was surprised but then she went under the sink and gave me the roach spray, what was it doing there and why did she look so surprised.

Monger 3

09-05-05, 21:10

Trippleecks

09-06-05, 14:11

try Ken for apartments at www.ez-riorentals.com

Rio Bob

09-06-05, 18:21

These roaches don't have anything to do with any one agent in particular like gringo management, if someone else has an apt in the same building as him then that apt will have problems also. Monger3 below has a good suggestion but I would specify to any rental agent that the most important thing is clean and nothing crawling bigger than a pin head as they all have these little ants. I don't think you can be guaranteed because these are all old buildings in Copa, yes maybe Ipanema and Leblon you might have better luck or even an apart hotel.

Sperto

09-06-05, 21:43

Try
http://www.rioapartments.com/
They have everything from small studios to big luxury penthouses.
Clean, wellfurnished apartments and serviceminded manager.

Rio Bob

09-07-05, 00:02

I can recommend www.thewonderfulcity.com. I stayed in an apartment on Rua Santa Clara, one block in from beach. Less sketch because it was not in front of Help, but cool area. Also close to some interesting bar action down past Copa Palace...where I was never quoted more than 150 for the night, in Reals, at Help, chicas ask for that for a romp in the bathroom, but be careful and cab it around when heading down toward Leme at night.

as for gringomanagement.com, I stayed in a great apartment in Ipanema. a 5min ride to anywhere in Copa, but a nice respite from the shady sh*t in Copa as well. Might be a suggestion. no need to stay within 3 blocks of Help. Cabs are everywhere and safe (and necessary) at night!

I just want to say one thing in defense of gringomanagement here and that is that on this site mentioned here and on Sperto's site below gringomanagement has the same apts on his website. So the point is depending on who you rented the apt from you would have had the same problem, it doesn't belong to any one particular agent. I deal with gringomanagement and he has always been good to work with but these apts are on multiple websites including Bobby's.

Gladiator

09-07-05, 20:22

IMO gringomanagement is utter shit, I avoid it like the plag - they should change their name to roachmanagement.

I already posted my horror story when I tried them some time ago so I'm not going to repeat it again, I'd just like to warn everyone about them.

Sperto

09-08-05, 00:36

I just want to say one thing in defense of gringomanagement here and that is that on this site mentioned here and on Sperto's site below gringomanagement has the same apts on his website. So the point is depending on who you rented the apt from you would have had the same problem, it doesn't belong to any one particular agent.

Yes, Rioapartments let Gringomanagement use SOME of their apartments. Still Rioapartments have a lot more to choose from. They do have lots of apartments that belong to them.

MrK

09-08-05, 02:00

I recommend Rioapartments too. I've used them several times and they always have taken care of me. The one drawback is that they want you to stay at least 7 nights. They have a great selection of apartments with a wide price range. You need to send them a 30% payment to hold the apartment and then pay them everything up front plus a deposit (usually $200).

They have always given me excellent service and the apartments have been clean and roach free. I've stayed in the cheaper apartments (around $40 a night) and the better apartments (around $60 a night). You get what you pay for. Another drawback is that if you stay a long time, you either need to pay extra for maid service or clean yourself.

I enjoy not paying that damn tourist tax and service fee. I like the big refrigerator and the small stove. I also like the ability to bring the bundalicious women back and not have to pay a guest fee. Every apartment I stayed in had a safe and a doorman. I highly recommend Rioapartment.

JustGotBack

09-08-05, 07:17

Are there addresses or a map showing the location of the apartments in rioapartments? It's hard to pick a place not knowing where it is.

Nevermind. The rioapartment site needs work. If you click on the little British flag it takes you to www.rioapartments.se which doesn't have locations of the apartments. But if you click on the quick link to apartments or just type in www.rioapartments.com/english, it lists apartments with addresses.

Macunaima

09-16-05, 23:33

well, guys, I hate to break it to you, but roaches are pretty much endemic here in Brazil unless you're willing to pay BIG cash on rent. And what's worse, they're everywhere all over the streets, especially at night. So if you have problems with roaches, this is definitely not the city to visit.

Exec Talent

09-17-05, 01:28

I rented two apartments from Kenn for a total of almost two months and did not see one roach. I also have not seen them all over the streets at night.

I did see them in the apartment I rented for two days from www.thewonderfulcity.com.

The tiny little ants seem to be way more prevalent.

Rio Bob

09-17-05, 16:20

I rented an two apartments from Kenn for a total of almost two months and did not see one roach. I also have not seen them all over the streets at night.

I did see them in the apartment I rented for two days from www.thewonderfulcity.com.

The tiny little ants seem to be way more prevalent.

Which apt was it on this site, what street?

Rio Bob

09-17-05, 16:24

Macunaima, exec talent and many others have said they didnt have roaches in their apartments so your theory is wack. It just that bullshit sites like gringomanagement.com deal with rundown apartments and they know it but yet they deceive you and cheat you out of money. Fuck gringomanagement and that punk ass ***** that runs that shit.

I have rented 2 different apts from gringomanagement, the 1st one, I stayed there never saw a roach in 10 days then 6 mos later in the same apt, they were all over the place. I then changed apts now stayed there 2 times, never saw a roach. I never saw a roach on the street, that's ridiculous, just another attempt to try and spoil our fun, it's getting old.

Jaimito Cartero

09-17-05, 21:38

I think many of the problems with roaches have to do with the tenants. If you leave stuff out (or the guy before you did), they are much more likely to be around.

I know my apartment is totally clean, and I didn´t see anything, until I left some papaya out, and all of a sudden there were ants. Big surprise, eh? Get rid of the food, and they´ll be gone sooner or later.

Gladiator

09-18-05, 02:06

The problem in the apartment that I booked with gringoroaches.com had nothing to do with food: each time I got into the bathroom after dark there were about 8-10 roaches around, there was a serious problem of roach infestation as a result of the lack of cleanliness.

Havahopeful

09-23-05, 21:05

A friend of my girl's in Rio is in Chicago right now for a visit. While here we got to discussing his thoughts on Rio and much to my surprise his desire to move to Chicago!

As a frame of reference, this is a 25 year old guy from a pretty wealthy family in Rio. He lives in an amazing house in Jardim Botanico.

To him, the safety difference and how it affects his everyday life is significant enough of a factor that he is willing to move to a city where he would be poor and quasi legal in and where the average woman is pale, frigid and at least 25 lbs overweight!

The little things we take for granted, for example: being able to drive a nice car without fear of being jacked, being able to wear a nice watch without fear of being robbed, going to ATM's at night, taking the bus alone at night. These things mean the world to him.

I have been to Rio for 23 days consisting of 2 trips and I have never had a problem with my safety but I have been conscious of all of the safety tips discussed on this board. I plan on going again soon, but anyone that says that Rio is similar to any North American or European big city is just plain wrong.

On murder rates alone Rio would be 20-30% more dangerous than Washington D.C., Baltimore or Detroit, America's most dangerous big cities, and 300% more dangerous than Chicago and 500% more dangerous than New York. Statistics show that most European cities are significantly safer than any city in the US.

I don't believe that these numbers really tell the whole story. The scary thing about Rio is that even the best neighborhoods are surrounded by favelas, where as in most Amercian cities (at least Chicago) neighborhoods gradually improve and deteriorate and its easy to steer clear of dangerous areas.

I have lived in Athens, Rome and Chicago, in all of those cities the vast majority of my friends had never been mugged or the victims of random acts of violence. Whereas the vast majority of my friends in Rio have.

I apologize if my post is rambling, but I am curious to know the thoughts of American and European expats on this issue and how much of their daily routine is governed by safety concerns.

Macunaima

09-23-05, 22:06

On roaches...

Malay and Exec, I'm sorry, if you don't see roaches at night, you aren't paying attention. I've NEVER been in an apartment in Rio that didn't have some roach problem unless:

1) the apartment was brand new.

2) The apartment had just been frechly bombed.

Ezinho

09-24-05, 00:20

I'm afraid Macunaima is right about cockroaches, if you stay in Rio long enough and go out walking at night, sooner or later you will notice them, all over the place, running around on the ground. Personally, its not a big deal for me, but for you guys that are "scared" of them, I guess it would be.
Then again, why do some of you guys have such a problem with cockroaches? If you can travel 5,000 miles to Brasil, I would think you could handle a couple of roaches. Its not like they bite or anything, hell I prefer them to mosquitos or even spiders, so what's the big deal. Remember what your mom said when you were a little kid, they're more scared of you than you are of them lol.
As for your story about the Carioca that wants to move to Chicago, that doesn't suprise you, does it? He's probably tired of putting up with all the crime and violence in this city, and working a job that pays shit. All kinds of Brasilians want to leave and move somewhere else, from rich to poor. I have been in Rio for almost 5 months now and as much as I love this city, I would NEVER want to actually live here permanently, sure the pussy is great but after a while you realize that it's not worth putting up with all the bullshit here. I get a lot of PMs about guys that wish they could live in Rio, how do I do it, how cool it must be etc etc etc, if you truly want to live in Rio I suggest try staying here for about 3 months and live a NORMAL life, don't live on Av. Atlantica and go to the termas every night and then Help afterwards, but live in a regular neighborhood (Catete, Flamengo, maybe even Zona Norte if you're up for it) and experience the life of REAL Brasilians, maybe even hold down a job if you can find one. Then you can decide if you would really want to live here.
Sorry if I sound negative, I truly do love Brasil, but life here is tough, and living here is (unfortunately) completely different from coming here on vacation for a week, banging 3 chicks a day, and then going back to the States. I will be leaving here and going back to the States in the next few days, but I'll be in Quito Ecuador early next year, so for those of you who like to flame my pics, please join me in the Ecuador photo gallery section next year, lol!

Carlos Primeros

09-24-05, 06:29

You are rigth with living in Rio. I for my part usually stay away from Rio when I am in Brazil - Niteroi or the Regiao do Lagos is ok. My GF is working as a dentist and her clinic is in Rio - therefore she is commuting every morning to Rio, but living near Av. Atlantica is only for the pros and the tourists.

Also - as an expat you might find a well-paid job with a foreign company. But as a local you must stick to jobs which are available for locals. These jobs do not earn you big money, therefore you have also this big lot of petty-crime. Brazilians are not mean and bad, to the contrary. But they need some money to live.

For the everage Brazilian it is hard to make ends meet.

I also love Brazil but I prefer to live in Portugal and only go to Brazil on business/leasure/visits.

These are my 2 cents (Euro)

Carlos

Member #4156

09-24-05, 14:17

ezinho, I dont care if the roaches are on the streets, I just dont want a roach infested apartment while I am there. People have given positive reports of Kenn's apartments not seeing roaches but yet some person want to continue to argue there were roaches in those apartments. I just dont get it why someone argue about roaches when they were not even in those apartments for that time period, It just makes no sense.

It makes sense only if they had an apartment in the same building.

Macunaima

09-24-05, 17:51

Carlos, do you REALLY think there are no well paying jobs in Rio?

I know plenty of Brazilians who are pulling down 4-5000 reais a month. Now, that may not be great cash by American standards, but by local standards it's more than enough for a comfortable life. Hell, I get by on about a fourth of that and I have a GREAT apartment, nice friends, a decent social life, a fun job and the beach whenever I want it.

Whether or not one wants to live here long term is a matter of taste. But I know plenty of Brazilians who are miserable in the States, too. I myself wouldn't live in the States unless I could make REALLY big money. And even then, I'd want it to be a temp job. Two years at the most.

Carlos Primeros

09-25-05, 05:08

Dear Mac,

I did not want to insult you or hurt you in any way. 4 - 5000 reais is pocket money to may standards, but yes, for Brazilian standards it is a top sallery. As you said, it is a matter of perspective. Yes - there are decent paid jobs in Rio, 5 - 10 % of the population have these jobs, but 90 % do not have them.
I have a lot of well-off friends in Brazil, part of my mothers familiy is from St. Catarina and also very well-off.
I for my part would also not like to live in the US (no insult to our US-friends). I live here in Portugal/Europe but I love to come to Brazil and every opportunity I have to come is taken. The main problem in Brazil is the extreme social differences. Lula is trying his very best (not neccessar his government) - but politcs are not a subject here.

Take care. You and all the Brazilians have my respect.

Carlos

Macunaima

09-25-05, 18:17

You're right that well-paying jobs are not easy to find here, Carlos, but people with a decent education usually don't have too much trouble. Maybe only 10-20% of Rio earns what we down here would consider to be a fat wage, but then again, only about 10% of the population has anything approaching a college education. So it's a bit of six on one side, half a dozen on the other and them what has, gets.

I immigrated back in 1990 and though I've never been rolling in the dough down here, ?I've never straved, either. I don't have access to all the toys and goodies you Yanks do, but I personally think my quality of life is much higher than that of your average American. I eat better, for cheaper, have a nicer place to live, more free time, more and better friends and the freedom to pursue projects that I probably couldn't in the States or Europe.

Like I said, living here is mostly a matter of taste. If you're dead set on being a hell-for-leather consumer with the newest toys at the cheapest prices (and let's face it, most people fall inbto this category), then the States is a better place for you. That said, I know plenty of gringos who live here and VERY few of them regret their choice or are bitter about it.

The key to a happy life here is to LEARN PORTUGUESE. Not just how to speak it competently, but how to read it and write it. I agree that you'll probably be miserable if you just stick to Copa and try to turn mongering into a lifestyle. From what I've seen, that particular illusion wears very thin, very fast. However, if you learn the ropes of normal life in the city and can participate it in it as a normal person, then there's a shit load of things to do for cheap to keep you occupied.

Here's a ferinstance: this week is Rio's International Film Festival. Some 300 titles playing 24/7 in the city's more than 50 movie houses. Everything you could possibly want to see at 2 USD a pop, with several free features. When I was up in Washington D.C. last year, it was RARE to find a movie house that wasn't running Hollywood Blockbusters 24/7 - and D.C. is known for its "large" (by American standards) alternative cinema scene. But practically anything "alternative" that showed the year I was up there, I had already seen in Rio, or could've seen before in Rio. And D.C theaters charge 12USD per pic.

Next month, Dr. John is going to be in town sharing a stage with Dona Ivone Lara. I got tickets for 20 bucks. Last time I tried to see Dr. John in DC - alone - he cost 35. He's coming here as part of the TIM festival, which is importing bands from all over the world. If I didn't have so much work to do, I'd go to see more.

Overall, I've never lived in a city with so much to do and see for so cheap as Rio de Janeiro. NYC has more to do, but it's expen$$$ive. Life down here is hardly the onerous burden you seem to think it is.

As for "extreme social differences" those are generated and maintained by a global economy. There as much a problem anywhere you live as they are here. The only difference is that here, they are in your face, whereas in the States, say, they are hidden away from view. You can easily pretend they don't exist. But agian, this isn't much of a problem unless you are the kind of guy who's into conspicuous consumption. If you do that here, you're a target. If you don't, I don't find Rio to be more dangerous, over all, than anywhere else I've ever lived.

Perkele

09-26-05, 01:52

Macu!

Now you're talking BS on at least one count. Houses/apartments in USA are a lot nicer and more comfortable than in Rio. I know. There is an exception, if you're ready to pay SAME amount as you pay in USA, sure you'll get luxury.

Other thing is that in USA you don't have to be 110% alert ALL THE TIME. USA is a lot safer than Brasil.

Everything else is pretty much true. This country is bland, nothing to do, no real life.....

I know what I'm talking about, I've lived in Rio and traveled around Brasil for 2 years. Now I'm in USA and I've traveled aroud this country too, so I don't have opinions based on 1 location.

Anyway I'd rather give up all luxury here and go to Rio this moment.

P

Macunaima

09-26-05, 02:46

Perk, my bedroom window overlooks a rain forest and has a direct view of the sea and Pão de Açucar. My back window look straight up Corcovado. I have cable T.V. and a direst DSL line. I don't need air conditioning, because this building was intelligently constructed for a tropiucal climate and catches every breeze, no matter how small. My apartment has 4 meter high ceilings and old colonial wooden windows. It's spacious, airy and I get to feed the monkeys that come visit every noon if I like. In the evenings, I get to watch the sun go down from my balcony and drink wine while watching parrots shriek back and forth and flights of urubus lazily drifting out to their nighttime perches on the islands. I take a trolley to and from work, know everyone in my building and all my neighbors. My neighborhood is full of bars which play free live music, every night. City center is a twenty minute walk away and no, you don't have to be 110% alert if you just don't carry anything worth stealing. I pay USD 170 for my share of the rent every month.

I admit, living in Brazil, I don't have to deal with born-again wackos running my country's government, but I some sacrifices have to be made.

Now, you tell me where I'm going to find a better deal than that in States and I'm there.

Lover Boy #2

09-26-05, 06:29

"I admit, living in Brazil, I don't have to deal with born-again wackos running my country's government, but I some sacrifices have to be made".

What about living with a police presence of corrupt, murderous thieves who cut people's heads off and throw them in a dumpster, routinely steal from the people they are paid to protect and deal as many illicit items as the street criminals they are paid to arrest/bring to justice?....or a series of governments that have perpetuated institutionalized corruption? This sarcasm can also be called throwing a stone when you live in a glass house.

Trippleecks

09-26-05, 12:28

Lover Boy #2, guess you never heard about the New Orleans Police Department.. about as corrupt a Police Department as there is. Don't think Brazil has a monopoly on corruption in their police departments.

You said..."""or a series of governments that have perpetuated institutionalized corruption?"""
Ever think about the thieves we have in our own US Congress, taking payoffs etc. and only looking out for their own jobs and not the welfare of their constituents. Please don't insult any other Government, until we clean up our own Houses.. pun intended!

Macunaima

09-26-05, 17:01

LB, that kind of corruption hasn't ever touched my life, nor does it touch the lives of the majority of Brazilians outside of the organized crime circuit. Mostly, I've had good experiences dealing with the cops here. Better, in fact, than I've had dealing with American cops, as a whole.

Furthermore, you know about the incidents you mention porecisely because they are being FOUGHT. The cops resonsible for the Gen. Osório massacre are all in jail and likely to remain there for some time. This is hardly "anything goes land", LB.

CBGBConnisur

09-26-05, 17:07

Brazil is certainly dangerous especially in certain locales. I went to Rio last year, I would say in comparison to some other countries, Moscow and St. Petersburg Russia, its no more dangerous than those places. Wander off into the favelas and you are playing Russian roulette with your life.

Papi Que Rico

09-26-05, 17:44

Sunset

09-26-05, 21:17

Long story short.

I won't be visiting any ATMs after dark.

What was I thinking?

Carlos Primeros

09-27-05, 00:44

As a smart guy, you simply do not walk into favelas. I agree, there are no-go areas in the whole world, I for my part would not walk around in Bukavo/Africa or in Sierra Leone. but that does not mean that whole Africa in dangerous.

Down in the South of Brazil (i.e. Blumenau) where I spent a part of my childhood - it is not dangerous on the country-side and in the little cities. These cities and villages are the same since 40 years ago.

Rio can be dangerous - that why people move to Barra or Niteroi.

Stay safe.

Carlos

Macunaima

09-27-05, 01:08

I hate to break it to you, Carlos, but there are PLENTY of favelas down south, too.

Not all favelas are dangerous. And not all "asphalt" neighborhoods are safe. I'd feel MUCH safer hanging out in Rocinha than in Copacabana, for instance.

One Wing Low

09-27-05, 01:58

Is villa Mimosa safer than Rio favelas?

RonnyRon

09-27-05, 03:29

One Wing Low,

Yes it is safer than most favelas. It is a protected area. A very small area, basically a one way (Sotero dos Reis) street. It is a (red) light district set up for the business of sex and to relax. I never felt the least bit threaten. I walked around to all the bars and dance rooms without any problem. My last visit was in 2001, so things may have changed, but I doubt it. I spent about 3 hours 9:00-12:00 there late one evening. Everyone who goes (men & women) knows exactly why they are there. The men to have a good time and the women to work. I really believe you may only encounter a problem, if you choose to walk out or get drunk and become obnoxius. I did walk out one night. There were several police cars blocking the street that night, so my buddy and I walked out. I was pretty naive back then. Looking back the only thing that was missing was the music from Halloween, " Chu, chu, chu chu, chu..." and Jason appearing. LOL.

What happened to Jimmy, I believe was an isolated incident. He lives in Rio and upset the wrong person. I have visited a couple of favela where I felt completely safe. As Macunaima stated "Not all favelas are dangerous".

The thing about VM is where it is located. It is not in the tourist area. The area feels remote and isolated. The area surrounding VM definitely feels and looks more dangerous, but the same could be said about many parts of Rio outside of Copacabana.

RonnyRon

Macunaima

09-28-05, 01:16

If anything, VM's gotten LESS dangerous since 2001 as it's become a fad for the carioca middle-class to go slumming there.

However, Ron is square on the ball when he talks about the surrounding area, which can be QUITE nasty. It's near a whole mass of highway overpasses where the local homeless tribes camp. The only time I've ever seen a dead body on the streets of Rio was one day passing through the neighborhood on my way home. VM is fine, but you should take care going in and out: always cab it. I certainly wouldn't be caught walking alone there after dark.

Lover Boy #2

09-28-05, 06:11

Nodd_N "Lover Boy #2, guess you never heard about the New Orleans Police Department.. about as corrupt a Police Department as there is. Don't think Brazil has a monopoly on corruption in their police departments.

You said..."""or a series of governments that have perpetuated institutionalized corruption?"""
Ever think about the thieves we have in our own US Congress, taking payoffs etc. and only looking out for their own jobs and not the welfare of their constituents. Please don't insult any other Government, until we clean up our own Houses.. pun intended"!

Nodd....Yes, I have heard of the New Orleans Police Department. If you believe that the New Orleans Police Department (underpaid and not too good by world police standards) is worse (worse = committing homicides, committing felonies and being an endemic dis-service to the public) than the PM in Rio, then to argue with you would be a waste of both of our time.

I am not American by birth (although I have been a guest here, off and on, for many years). Therefore, I would certainly not make comparisons or insults to the US...I was responding to the sarcastic line from Macu "I admit, living in Brazil, I don't have to deal with born-again wackos running my country's government, but I some sacrifices have to be made". You chose to make US comparisons to Brasil's situations that I detailed. This was not an insult to his government, it was a response to his sarcastic insult against another government, hence the "glass house" comment. I saw his comment as ironic in some way, coming from a place known the world over as politically corrupt with police that are looked at as criminals by most thinking/observant individuals.

Maybe you need to read the thread before you comment or throw your own stone this way......... (pun also intended).

Lover Boy #2

09-28-05, 06:29

Macu said "LB, that kind of corruption hasn't ever touched my life, nor does it touch the lives of the majority of Brazilians outside of the organized crime circuit. Mostly, I've had good experiences dealing with the cops here. Better, in fact, than I've had dealing with American cops, as a whole".

I'm sure you are sincere in what you say, but my personal experience has been quite different. My first example is the car my uncle had stolen at gun point. When we went to the police, the low life, thieving, scumbags asked for money to file the report. They realized that my uncle had insurance and immediately wanted a small piece. He was beat up, embarassed and bleeding at the time and I saw this as a heartless scheme (one that is practiced quite often according to my uncle and his circle of friends who were consulted by me on this subject). My second example would be the police assasination of a thug outside of a shopping center, one that made the two German news reports that I saw the following day. The guy was laying on the ground helpless and they just shoot the guy on camera.....it must take a real soldier to accomplish that feat. Why did the cop think this was totally acceptable? (I think it is called institutionalized corruption?). My third example is the activity of the police when dealing with normal citizens, that I have personally observed. They act as though they are a "force" to be reckoned with, when the reality is that a rent a cop security guard in the train station in Frankfurt has a more professional look and demeanor. My next example is all of the stuff on this board (drug deals, shakedowns of tourists, acting with prostitutes to set up a customer, robbing whole hotels and residences with their police car parked at street level). I travel constantly, at least 45 weeks of the year, all over the world. Please believe me......the police in Rio are some of the worse shows in all the globe.

One Wing Low

09-28-05, 08:55

That's not saying a lot about VM.

With lots of hungry, homeless people crashing on the streets, Copacabana is a very dangerous place. Given the opportunity, those hungry people would be more than inclined to knock some one's head off and take their money for food and drugs. There are a lot of reports by mongers being robbed on Avenida Atlantica right in crowded tourist areas. Skid rows in America's cities have similar levels of crimes.

Despite some very good interactions with the beautiful and classy chicas at L'uomo, my feelings are, the majority of Brazilians, rich or poor, unlike other Latin America peoples, are not at peace with themselves and with the world.

The thing about VM is where it is located. It is not in the tourist area. The area feels remote and isolated. The area surrounding VM definitely feels and looks more dangerous, but the same could be said about many parts of Rio outside of Copacabana.
RonnyRon

Jaimito Cartero

09-28-05, 18:32

...This week is Rio's International Film Festival. Some 300 titles playing 24/7 in the city's more than 50 movie houses. Everything you could possibly want to see at 2 USD a pop, with several free features.

A lot of misinformation here. I looked through their schedule (available for $1R at most movie houses, or a deluxe book for $30R), and didn't see any location running 24 hours. Most are 10am-10pm. Most theatres show just 4 or 5 movies a day, and still show normal movies too. 25 theatres in total, plus some screens put up in "poor areas". (That's what it says on the website, anyway.)

http://2005.festivaldorio.com.br/cgi/cgilua.exe/sys/start.htm?tpl=home&UserActiveTemplate=f_2005_ing

It started last Saturday and will end on the 6th of October. I think almost every movie house in town is showing movies. Most show at the normal prices for that location. I saw, "ABC's do Amor", Little Manhattan, on Monday night, and paid the normal $13R price at the Roxy. There were about 20 people at the show.

They list 436 different movies, some as short as a minute, but most are full length. One theatre in Cinelandia is showing pics for $2R for the morning, early afternoon shows. The majority of the pics are from 2004 or 2005. Some classics, and other weird ones. I think all the pics have Portugeuse subtitles.

They also have some free showings, and a package of 20 movies and 50 movies.

RonnyRon

09-28-05, 23:15

One Wing Low,

If you find Copacabana dangerous, then I don't know what to say. Go to VM, if don't like it, no harm no foul. I personally don't find Copacabana to be dangerous, but then again I have been to many areas of Rio where many guys here would not feel comfortable. I doubt you will run into a problem there.

What you consider dangerous, I may not. It really all depends on ones experiences in life. I have been robber twice in my life at gun point and both times it was in the City of Angels in the good ol' USA. The second time I was robbed, I was also shot in the stomach. You can imagine, I generally have a heighten sense of things going on around me no matter where I am in the world.

RonnyRon

Macunaima

09-29-05, 02:56

Woo doggies! Did I ever misinform people, huh, Jaime? Gosh, a guy could get killed following my info. Good thing you've been so much more accurate in your report.

While there are only 20 (and not 25) theaters participating in this festival, the city has well over 50 movie houses. Furthermore, many of those 20 theaters are running multiple screens. I haven't bothered to count exactly how many films one could see at any given point in the day (I'll leave that up to you with your mania for absolute accountability) but its far more than 20.

Then there are the Lonas Culturais, which add another dozen or so screens. So all told, it's closer to 50 screens than 25.

Furthermore, while the films aren't running precisely 24/7 (midday to midnight is more like it), the festival itself is pretty much a 24 hour event, what with the parties, and the tendas and the palestras and exhibits and etc. Probably some dead time between 4AM and 8AM, but not much if you know where to look.

But you're correct in one thing, sport: the exact count is 436 films not "some 300 or so" as I listed. Good thing you're around to keep me from making these hugely inaccurate, wild claims.

Jaime, do you know what the English phrase "to pick nits" means? LOL.

Jaimito Cartero

09-29-05, 17:21

I got all my stats from their website. So if there's a problem, you know who to blame.

You can NOT see all the pics for $2. Plus another 3 or 4 major errors. You seem rather sanctimonious in your postings. You know everything. The girls do not orgasm with clients, and we're just dumb gringos.

There are lots of dumb gringos out there, but I think that the majority of the participants here are not.

Woo doggies! Did I ever misinform people, huh, Jaime? Gosh, a guy could get killed following my info. Good thing you've been so much more accurate in your report.

While there are only 20 (and not 25) theaters participating in this festival, the city has well over 50 movie houses. Furthermore, many of those 20 theaters are running multiple screens. I haven't bothered to count exactly how many films one could see at any given point in the day (I'll leave that up to you with your mania for absolute accountability) but its far more than 20.

Then there are the Lonas Culturais, which add another dozen or so screens. So all told, it's closer to 50 screens than 25.

Furthermore, while the films aren't running precisely 24/7 (midday to midnight is more like it), the festival itself is pretty much a 24 hour event, what with the parties, and the tendas and the palestras and exhibits and etc. Probably some dead time between 4AM and 8AM, but not much if you know where to look.

But you're correct in one thing, sport: the exact count is 436 films not "some 300 or so" as I listed. Good thing you're around to keep me from making these hugely inaccurate, wild claims.

Jaime, do you know what the English phrase "to pick nits" means? LOL.

Macunaima

09-29-05, 20:13

Jaime, there are about a half-dozen different ways of getting in for half price. I haven't seen a film yet that cost more than 12 reais. Half of that is 6. So, OK, it's not precisely 2 bucks, more like 2.5 bucks. You want to do the precise calculations for the good people out there? Frankly, I can't be bothered.

If these are the roiling "inaccuracies" you're finding in my posts, then may I suggest that you have a fine career ahead of you as a lice picker?

As for people being "dumb gringos", that's your words there, Sonny Jim, not mine. If that's the way you feel people look at you for mongering, fine, but please don't project your little traumas onto me, OK? But taking a man to task for saying that a movie costs 2 bucks when it really costs 2.50 is pretty fucking stupid.

And this sort of little nit-fit you seem to be determined to provoke is REALLY FUCKING STUPID, so why don't we give the other nice folks here a rest and quit it, huh, Jaime?

Acorda p'ra cuspir, rapaz!

Jan 156

10-13-05, 04:41

OK I will put twopence in, and bear in mind just my opinions based on several visits, a few months in total. I do not have a drum to beat, a point to prove or whatever, just saddened at people sometimes not enjoying Rio as much as they could, so please do not flame me if you disagree.

Getting mugged is a concern in Rio like it is in any big city. I would not wander round the Bronx on my own. And personally I would not go to City of God (a tough remote part of Rio) without two or three cariocas as back up. Most other parts of Rio I have no problem with. Getting mugged is a concern for cariocas the same as it is for tourists. But if you look and sound like a tourist you are a bigger target.

So many people on this site seem to worry so much about security - it threatens to interfere with their enjoyment of this wonderful city. If you have backpacked across India or similar you will know how to look after yourself - Rio is not that different.

These tips may not suit everyone, but they are a starter for some - adapt them as you like or ignore them if you do not (sorry to sound pedantic - no easy apostrophes on the Rio keyboard that I have found yet!).

*Should I take an old wallet?

Errrrm . . . and why would you need a wallet? Do what locals do. Fold up a few bills, just what you need, and put them in an inside pocket or a pocket in the lining of your shorts or a buttoned pocket. Use a rubber band if you like. Choose the trousers you rtake carefully - polyester easy wash and dry with lots of zips is good. The travel performance-wear shops do excellent stuff.

If you wear a watch, wear a fake one or a cheap one. If you have to take a camera, use the smallest possible digital camera that does not draw attention. Put your mobile phone on a small chain. I like a black fascia that does not show up. As everyone uses a mobile no-one needs to know yours is a 3G one covered by your insurance.

*Your apartment room.

When choosing an apartment (if you are going for a couple of weeks or more), look at several before you part with cash. Have a check list of what you are looking for. Some of the older apartments (in central Copa particularly) have wardrobes with locks. You can lock any valuable stuff (if you have to have valuable stuff) or cash or credxit cards in there. Or do what I do: get a decent rucksack. It can be one of those fancy ones where the harness zips away when not in use - that way it can pose as a shoulder bag in a hotel or smart place. It will have zips that lock. Get combination locks - it means you can lock stuff away quickly. Get one of those coated steel loops you get from backpacker stores. Lock your rucksack to a piece or furniture. This will not deter a determined person who breaks in to your apartment and has a big enough knife but it will stop all but the most nasty pieces of garota. (As a quickie - when you take a garota back, pop your trousers - with cash over and above what you have agreed to pay her - under the mattress when she visits the bathroom). If you get your apartment from a respectable source it will have 24hr security on the front door - not only do them stop people coming in but they can intervene if you get a whacko garota. That is for another thread, but briefly, three agencies I would recommend are: Rent-A-Flat (East Copa, near Arcoverde Tube and Mellow Yellow backpackers and near to buses downtown and local action near Prado Junior); Aparthotel (Mid-Copa, near to several nice Massagens) that includes cleaning service, pool etc; and one I cannot recall the name of but it is at 40 Rua Xavier da Silveira - Room 313 (West Copa, near Help). Look the apartments over and do not be afraid to haggle a bit. Do noy buy an apartment from someone who does not have an office.

*Stuff to take

By the way, there is really (IMO) no need to go to Rio with more than cabin baggage. Buy a shoulder bag there to put your gear in for coming back. Clothes - you only need one change and a few spare pair of underpants till you can buy local gear (cheap or posh) that does not stand out. Same for toiletries. The one luxury I take is a 3G phone. You can put SO much on it if you are a bit techie - grab some maps of Rio (google for the PDF one, I do not have the address to hand - I am in a Rio cybercafe) - do creen captures on the areas of interest then export them to your phone and zoom them up to whatever magnitude as you need them. Another great (free) add-on for your phone is the Portuguese version of Slovo-Ed. Admittedly it is not Brasilian Portuguese, but as a pocket dictionary on your phone it will get you by in a lot of situations.

*Language

If you know a few opening words of Portuguese and can say them convincingly you can often bluff (eg when buying stuff) and get things cheaper. (and you look like less of a mark)

This sounds obvious to most folk but . . . When you walk about, avoid streets with no people in them, especially if they are dark. Listen to and respect the local culture, be aware of what is happening (like an advanced motorist who notices *everything* around and ahead but without taking eyes off the road). Many cariocas can see an attempted robbery before it happens. (If you lived in Brooklyn, would this not be the same? Maybe.) If you feel threatened keep walking confidently, avoid eye contact, fend off intrusive unavoidable verbals with Nao obrigado (trying to sell you something) or Nao fala Portuguese (said with convincing accent and a bit of attitude!) If you do get mugged, hand it over and avoid being such a chump next time.

Good luck guys.

Oh yeah - this is heart felt, not facetious - *do* be careful of the traffic: it is *very* fast most times. I have seen fatalities at Praca Bandeira (by Vila Mimosa) just cos people try to cross 17 lanes of traffic rather than use the footbridge.

Sunset Strip

10-13-05, 19:02

At 1430 (2pm Rio time) a little kid no older than 8 just robbed the man who runs the cigar shop on Prado Junior near Mabs. The kid took the ring off the man's finger and took off running. They caught the kid right across the street from Mabs and beat him up. The cops came and eventually took him away.
This proves a few points already alluded to on this forum: crime can happen anywhere, so be aware of your surroundings. Also, crime happens to anybody in Rio. I have seen both this kid and the cigar shop guy before, so I know they knew each other. The kid was not targeting gringos but anybody he could catch "slipping".

TJ

Macunaima

10-13-05, 19:44

You might be suprised to learn this, Christopherd, but according to the most recent unified crime stats for Rio de Janeiro, you are much more likely to get mugged on Copacabana than in the City of God.

Those of you who've seen the film and were impressed by it should bear in mind that the events it recounts took place some 20 years ago. These days, CoG isn't that bad as far as lower-class neighborhoods go. If you want excitement, may I suggest O Complexo do Alemão? :-)

Jan 156

10-13-05, 23:57

Thanks for the update on CoG. Maybe I will take a look - have you been?

Security in a lot of favelas of course is pretty good - the draconian drug baron policing ensures no crime is committed from what I understand. I am not too surprised that most places in Rio are statistically less likely to have muggings than Copa. Would like to know more about CoG though from anyone who has visited. It is a long way away from anywhere.

You might be suprised to learn this, Christopherd, but according to the most recent unified crime stats for Rio de Janeiro, you are much more likely to get mugged on Copacabana than in the City of God.

Those of you who've seen the film and were impressed by it should bear in mind that the events it recounts took place some 20 years ago. These days, CoG isn't that bad as far as lower-class neighborhoods go. If you want excitement, may I suggest O Complexo do Alemão? :-)

Sunset Strip

10-14-05, 15:08

You can find Cidade de Deus on most maps of Rio.
Macu can inform you in which direction to look on the map because I cannot remember exactly at the moment.

TJ

Macunaima

10-14-05, 15:08

I've been out to CoG a couple of times, usually translating for gringo journalists who saw the film and have become convinced that they have an "in" into one of the worst favelas in Rio. CoG isn't a great neighborhood, it just isn't all that bad. It isn't even properly a favela, to tell the truth: it's a government housing project that was built as a SOLUTION to the favela problems which has since overflown its limits. Foreigners have become impressed with it because of the film. It's also not THAT far out of the way. It's back of the lagoon area in Barra da Tijuca, which is pretty reasonable to get to. Nothing like Campo Grande or São Gonçalo, for instance.

Amerioca

10-26-05, 10:53

It is what the avg. tourist does not see that makes the city so dangerous. Live there long enough, you will see that life is very, very cheap. Stay low, and keep your nose clean at all times.

Complexo do Alemão? Nao, the action is at Mineira. CV and TC were going at it when I left six months ago. One faction whacked about dozen, put them in trash bins, rolled them out to the main street, and set fire to them.

If you enjoyed COG, and understand the language, I rec. Cidade dos Homens. It's about two kids growing up in a Rio favella. Produced by OGlobo. Available on DVD. There are three.

Rio Bob

11-08-05, 02:44

British tourist stabbed in Rio de Janeiro

03:30 2005-11-07
A 35-year-old British woman was stabbed in the arm during a robbery attempt in Rio de Janeiro on Sunday, authorities said.

the woman, of London, had to be hospitalized with three deep stab wounds in the right arm following the afternoon attack near Rio's downtown, said an officer with Rio's police division dedicated to protecting tourists. She was later released and was in good condition.

she was stabbed after four young men on two motorcycles approached and tried to steal her purse. She resisted, prompting one of the men to stab her in the arm several times with a kitchen knife, police said. The robbers ended fleeing without taking anything.

No suspects had been arrested, police said. Rio de Janeiro is one of the most violent cities in the world with a homicide rate of about 50 per 100,000 people.

While most of the killings are confined to Rio's shantytowns and the city's poor outskirts, tourists are a popular target for robberies as they are considered easy prey, AP reports.

BuleDaddy

11-08-05, 03:25

Hot Dawg,

The plane leaves Newark at night and arrives in Rio at 1PM.

Many Gringos will be eating turkey with their familias while I will be squeezing bulbous sistah style bunda in Rio. I could not resist after reading the posts.

I have been reading all the stories and it looks great. One guy that just returned posted that in November its a shoppers market at Help.

Speaking of HELP, I need help or advice on what cheap, girl friendly, hotel that has a safe box behind the front desk and doesn't mind a little noise.

Overall the posts say to boink 'em and say bye bye, or to go to a thermae and leave it there. The models are georgeous. I'd just as soon have cheap lodging and pay more for the booty.

How about taking a thermae girl up the coast to a smaller town for a day or two to enjoy a cultural experience? Does Rio have any nighclubs that play techno trance with techno vitamins?

I have been to SE Asia 10 times and other LA countries before, but this is my first Brazilian thaing.

Please advise!

JoshJosh69

11-13-05, 15:20

I would really strongly consider not buying any "techno vitamins" in Brasil. I know nothing about them but have heard of way too many stories of guys getting fooled by girls who are in cohoots with cops. Your best bet is to stay away from drugs (there are plenty of women to do) and keep your drug habit for your own country. A Brasilian jail is no place where you want to be.

Viper10

11-28-05, 06:06

She resisted. What is wrong with people? Just let it go and lose couple of hundred dollars. Is not someone's life more important? I would love to know how many people that get injured during an attack get injured because they "resisted."

British tourist stabbed in Rio de Janeiro

03:30 2005-11-07
A 35-year-old British woman was stabbed in the arm during a robbery attempt in Rio de Janeiro on Sunday, authorities said.

the woman, of London, had to be hospitalized with three deep stab wounds in the right arm following the afternoon attack near Rio's downtown, said an officer with Rio's police division dedicated to protecting tourists. She was later released and was in good condition.

she was stabbed after four young men on two motorcycles approached and tried to steal her purse. She resisted, prompting one of the men to stab her in the arm several times with a kitchen knife, police said. The robbers ended fleeing without taking anything.

No suspects had been arrested, police said. Rio de Janeiro is one of the most violent cities in the world with a homicide rate of about 50 per 100,000 people.

While most of the killings are confined to Rio's shantytowns and the city's poor outskirts, tourists are a popular target for robberies as they are considered easy prey, AP reports.

Lover Boy #2

11-28-05, 07:42

It is not that easy Viper. People get frightened and they react in fear. It is not a rational, well thought out decision for a woman to try to fight off four street dogs....but in those few seconds of fear, she attempted to resist. You never know what you will do in that type of situation, but it will be something totally unexpected. Keeping a cool head and unemotionally handing over belongings when confronted with weapons is not what usually happens (unless maybe you are CIA or MI6). Also, the language issue is one that creates a situation where the victim might not fully understand the intentions of the thief. A smart thief might say "just give me your money and we won't hurt you".....so the victim hands over some money....but in this case being accosted by four guys....she might have thought this was the end of her life and the animal instinct took over (survival/escape)

Carlos Primeros

11-28-05, 15:32

I was watching this morning Bom Dia Brazil, some amateur had obviously filmed the assault, handed over the video to the PF and this morning it was shown in the news with pictures of one guy arrested and 2 other wanted.

Sometimes cases which are highlightend here in Brazil will also be attended by the police. Unfortunately it is only 1 percent and only with the pressure from outside the police is doing something.

Carlos

Rio Bob

12-12-05, 21:49

Exec Talent

12-12-05, 22:21

Viper10

12-14-05, 07:41

I met a guy in Help one night, he was so drunk but a big young muscular guy. That night he met a girl in Help, he was so drunk that he couldn't make it back to his hotel so they went to a motel nearby Help(I assume vanity) . He ordered Champagne and put it all on his debit card and signed it. The next day he checked his account and he signed a bill for $1000 US. They robbed him and because it is a debit card he didn't have any protection.

In order to use your debit card like a credit card, it usually has the VISA or MASTERCARD logo on the front of it. Even though it is true that they immediately take out money, you are protected by VISA or MASTERCARD for a certain amount. I think it is $1000. I am not talking about any VISA check card or anything like that, but an ordinary debit card from your local bank. This is to insure that if your card get stolen, and someone uses it, you are protected like a normal CC.

Viper

Rio Bob

12-14-05, 15:37

In order to use your debit card like a credit card, it usually has the VISA or MASTERCARD logo on the front of it. Even though it is true that they immediately take out money, you are protected by VISA or MASTERCARD for a certain amount. I think it is $1000. I am not talking about any VISA check card or anything like that, but an ordinary debit card from your local bank. This is to insure that if your card get stolen, and someone uses it, you are protected like a normal CC.

Viper

What you are saying makes sense but I think the difference here is that his card wasn't stolen and he signed it. He was just drunk probably first day in Rio and wasn't used to the currency conversion and he didn't know what he was signing but tough luck because he signed it is what they told him. I would have gone back the next day and got my money's worth out of the hotel desk clerk who made the bill and made him an offer he couldn't refuse to return my money back.

Exec Talent

12-14-05, 20:51

What you are saying makes sense but I think the difference here is that his card wasn't stolen and he signed it. He was just drunk probably first day in Rio and wasn't used to the currency conversion and he didn't know what he was signing but tough luck because he signed it is what they told him. I would have gone back the next day and got my money's worth out of the hotel desk clerk who made the bill and made him an offer he couldn't refuse to return my money back.

Rio Bob -- if you have any way of contacting this guy I am in Rio now. I have a great relationship with the manager at Vanity. I had a problem one time when I tried to help someone out by suggesting a girl. I was taking her friend. We both were at Vanity but the other guy finished in like 15 mins and his girl called my room twice. After the second time I went up front and the told the manager that under no circumstances is anyone ever to call my room. He took off the charge. One AM I was walking on the beach and ran into a girl I liked. She needed a room. I had no money but told her I would get her a room. I went to Vanity and spent some time with the girl and came back later to pay her and for the room. My word was good enough for both of them.

I have found the Vanity manager very helpful and honest with a sense of humor. If I can help, let me know.

Rio Bob

12-14-05, 23:32

Rio Bob -- if you have any way of contacting this guy I am in Rio now. I have a great relationship with the manager at Vanity. I had a problem one time when I tried to help someone out by suggesting a girl. I was taking her friend. We both were at Vanity but the other guy finished in like 15 mins and his girl called my room twice. After the second time I went up front and the told the manager that under no circumstances is anyone ever to call my room. He took off the charge. One AM I was walking on the beach and ran into a girl I liked. She needed a room. I had no money but told her I would get her a room. I went to Vanity and spent some time with the girl and came back later to pay her and for the room. My word was good enough for both of them.

I have found the Vanity manager very helpful and honest with a sense of humor. If I can help, let me know.

I appreciate your offer but unfortunately I am not in Rio now and the guy was just some guy I met in Help and saw around town all week, I didn't get his info. I posted the story here so that others can be aware if found in a similar position.

Viper10

12-15-05, 02:01

Rio Bob

01-06-06, 19:27

I cut and paste this article in O globo, I find it interesting because when I arrive Rio with cash in my pocket I always feel that this would be an easy place for the bandits to stop my taxi and steal my money before I have a chance to put it in my safe. In this case the 2 Americans took a taxi and the taxi did not take the usual route to Copacabana it went through centro which I suspect he was in on the deal so be careful of the taxi that you choose. He went through centro and was stopped by another taxi with 4 bandits in it and they took 2 thousand dollars in cash(good reason to use ATM)

Turistas dos EUA são roubados ao chegarem ao Rio

Marcelo Dias - Extra

RIO - Dois turistas americanos tiveram US$ 2 mil dólares roubados logo após terem desembarcado no Rio. A dupla chegou quinta-feira à noite ao Aeroporto Internacional Antônio Carlos Jobim e pegou um táxi para a zona sul. Entretanto, o taxista optou por um trajeto diferente do usual e foi interceptado por outro táxi com quatro bandidos na Avenida Franklin Roosevelt, no Centro. Todos foram rendidos e os ladrões levaram o dinheiro, documentos e diversos pertences dos estrangeiros.

O caso foi registrado na Delegacia Especial de Atendimento ao Turista, no Leblon.

Rio Bob

01-10-06, 18:11

Rio Bob, Good piece of info. I had a driver pick me up but I still thought the same thing to myself about getting set up and getting robbed. We all want to save money on taxis then drivers but you really cant trust those taxi drivers.

This last time when i arrived Rio I had my regular driver pick me up. On our way to Copacabana the highway was all backed up with traffic, it was at a stand still because of an accident. My driver told me he was going to get off and take the side streets. If it was anybody else but him I would have thought twice about giving him permission to do so because the streets we went through were some mean looking streets and I didn't feel safe especially I had all of my belongings with me and more cash on me than these guys had.

Yes you should choose your taxi driver carefully and always use an official taxi or someone you know because it would be so easy for him to take you down an alley and have his 4 friends stick a gun in your face, take everything and ruin your vacation at best.

Exec Talent

01-11-06, 11:53

RexG

01-12-06, 02:48

I don't have a regular driver, but I have always assumed that the pre-paid cabs were a safe, albeit expensive, way to get from the airport to the hotel. You can see their ticket booths as soon as you exit the customs area. You can also call these companies for the return to the airport. Do I have a false sense of security about these prepaid cabs?

BuleDaddy

01-13-06, 00:12

Similar thing happened to me a few years back outside of Help. My girl was trying to steer me to a certain cab but I insisted on selecting my own. I was staying almost 10km away. About 3km into the ride, the other cab pulls up along side of us and tries to run us off the road forcing our cab to stop. It was her boyfriend in the other cab. The intent was for her to get a guy in his cab and he would rob them. She spent the night with me and a few others and ended up dumping the thieving loser.

Ever since, if I don’t have a regular driver, I either select a cabbie I know or hail one from the street. I never use the mafia drivers who hang right outside.Cabs are not cheap like the tourist guides say, and the ones around Help are shady and have people assisting them in their scamming.

I met some pretty classy drivers that were very helpful. One attractive lady driver that was my age that I hired for the night to take me and a nice young Carioca couple clubbing in Leblon and Uptown. Another took me and a beach girl for hire that was an aspiring model to her photoshoot and me to all the beaches way down the coast for many 20 minute dips. It cost me over 200 reals for that afternoon but it was worth it. Next time I rent a car, contrary to what the books try to scare you into using cabs. Help is only good for getting drunk on Skols and always dodge the nasty trollups that hang there, except for the sweet sistaz of Salvador. The best talent is on the beach, in the thermaes or on the beach.

Member #4156

01-22-06, 23:22

Domingo, 22 de janeiro de 2006, 03h08
Homens armados assaltam 33 turistas ingleses no RJ

Três homens armados com pistolas assaltaram, na noite da última quinta-feira, um grupo de trinta e três turistas ingleses no Aterro do Flamengo, no Rio de Janeiro.

Os bandidos invadiram o ônibus que levava os turistas para o hotel Copacabana Palace na Avenida General Justo. O assalto aconteceu pouco mais de uma hora após o desembarque no Aeroporto Internacional do Rio, informa O Globo. Eles obrigaram o motorista a dirigir até uma região abandonada.

Os turistas perderam passaportes, bagagens, celulares, máquinas fotográficas, jóias, computadores portáteis e grande quantia em dinheiro, diz o jornal.
===========================================================
Last Thursday night, three armed men with pistols had assaulted a group of 33 English Tourist in the land fill of Flamengo in Rio de Janeiro.

The bandits invaded a bus that was taking the tourist to the Copacabana Palace Hotel on Avenida General Justo. The assault happened little more than an hour after the arrival at the Rio international airport, informs O Globo. They had commanded the driver to drive to an abandoned region.

The tourists lost passports, baggages, cellular phones, cameras, laptop computers, and a large quantity of cash according to the journal.

Prosal

01-23-06, 12:04

[i]
Last Thursday night, three armed men with pistols had assaulted a group of 33 English Tourist in the land fill of Flamengo in Rio de Janeiro.
The bandits invaded a bus that was taking the tourist to the Copacabana Palace Hotel on Avenida General Justo. The assault happened little more than an hour after the arrival at the Rio international airport, informs O Globo.

That's astonishing. Hi-jacking a tourists bus with 33 people inside on the Attero de Flamengo, one of the Zona Sul's most busy expressway !!!!

IMO this was meticulously organized, maybe even with connections in Copacabana Palace.

Pro.

Rio Bob

01-24-06, 00:48

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil, Jan 23 (Reuters) - A gang of robbers who held up a busload of British tourists in Rio de Janeiro and stole cash, jewelry and passport probably received inside information from the airport, police said on Monday.

The ambush last week was the latest in a series of incidents which have highlighted the dangers of the seaside city in the run-up to February's Carnival celebrations.

The tourists, who were horse racing fans on a visit to Argentina and Brazil, were ambushed by three armed men as the bus was going from the airport to their hotel after they arrived in Rio on Thursday night.

The assailants blocked the bus with a car on a highway and took it to a quiet spot next to Rio's Guanabara Bay. They got away with $190,000 in cash and jewelry as well as some passports, police said.

"We believe they received information from inside the airport and hope this will help to catch them soon," investigator Ricardo Andreiolo said.

The same gang had apparently robbed two other, smaller, tourist groups previously, he said.

"We've heard of several tourists being kidnapped or robbed, but a whole coachload is new to us," Ian Fry, managing director of Britain's Horse Racing Abroad tour operator, told Reuters.

Fry said his company would not boycott Rio or Brazil because of the incident. He has hired a security firm to escort the tourists until their expected departure on Wednesday.

Roberto Dutra, head of the association of Brazilian Incoming Tour Operators, said the incident marred Rio's image badly and called on authorities to stop such highway robberies and reduce Rio's crime rate.

"After such an experience these people will never come back to Brazil, and even worse, they will speak badly of Rio and Brazil, preventing other tourists from coming," he said.

Famed for its beaches and mountains, Rio is also notorious as one of the world's most violent cities.

Drugs gangs rule its slums, or favelas, and crime often spills into city streets. In November, gangsters attacked a city bus and burnt five passengers alive.

Earlier this month, a corpse lay for six hours on Ipanema Beach, one of Rio's most popular with locals and tourists alike, and a brawl took place on the same beach last week between rival gangs.

Tourism officials say the violence prevents the number of visitors from growing substantially. Rio expects to receive 680,000 tourists, including 140,000 from abroad, for the Carnival celebrations starting on Feb. 24.

But travel expert Stefanie Michaels said the Rio tourist authorities had a "look the other way mentality", trying to attract more foreign visitors instead of warning them of the dangers of the city.

"I get why the tourism bureaus sugar coat their interests but then they need to be held responsible and that is not happening," Michaels said in a news release. "Until I was sure the government was really doing something about keeping visitors safe, I would find another place to visit."

Rio Bob

01-25-06, 00:30

That's astonishing. Hi-jacking a tourists bus with 33 people inside on the Attero de Flamengo, one of the Zona Sul's most busy expressway !!!!

IMO this was meticulously organized, maybe even with connections in Copacabana Palace.

Pro.

This is the 2nd time I have read about this type of robbery, getting the tourist right after he lands at the airport before he has had a chance to spend or hide his money. We are going to need armed guards picking us up soon.

Carrib

01-25-06, 02:19

AND they want "regular" tourists to visit Rio?....who the heck would bring their family to that crime ridden city?? Except for lone mongers in search of some serious BUNDA?

for a US family of four, visa costs alone are more than $400, and to deal with the possibility of getting robbed in the middle of a busy street in Flamengo?

One can only hope that they start reassigning law enforcement resources to keeping these visitors safe instead of harrassing mongers...LOL

Double

01-25-06, 19:37

Unless these guys just sit around at the airport waiting for a large group, this had to be an inside job. I would even imagine that the police need only look as far as the driver or one of the other tour company employees not to the exclusion of the owner of the agency to find out who the inside person is. Who else would know that a group of that size is arriving? Also, this group was interested in horse racing, so they would have the money on hand, the tour bus company would know that.

I used to think that there was security traveling in numbers; however it appears that in Brazil, they are so brazen and the booty that is likely in a large heist is more to the liking of the robbers.

This is pretty crazy. The ride from the airport is a long trip. I imagine now that it is better to travel in a cab because one or two travelers is not going to yield this kind of money for the robbers.

Rio Bob

01-25-06, 21:34

Bimbo Boy

01-25-06, 23:41

Double

01-26-06, 03:20

So, what do you take?

Do these guys take the luggage, and the money? Do they take the time to search you? If the take the entire bus, then there is time for them to search and take everything of value.

I know that there is a slim chance of being the one that gets hijacked, but in light of the fact that this can become a trend, what would be the best way to get to town from the airport?

I think that it is strange that there is not more airport security in Rio. Now that I think of it, I do not remember ever seeing any kind of police or security in the outer area once you pass the customs area, or outside. I would think that if tourism is important the city and or state would be doing more to protect travelers.

I really like Brazil, but I am not interested in getting robbed at gun point.

bunda not guns

d

Lorenzo

01-26-06, 03:49

what would be the best way to get to town from the airport?

If you are staying at a hotel, most hotels offer pickup service. Last I heard it ran about US$25 each way. The second best way is to take one of the radio taxis whose agents sell tickets at counters in the airport. They run about 50% higher than the blue and yellow 'co***s,' but you pay in advance and they know which driver takes you, so it is unlikely he would risk his job and prosecution by getting involved in a robbery. That having been said, I have always taken the 'co***s' and have never had a problem, but now I'm beginning to wonder if I will again. Rio appears to be becoming a more dangerous city.

Crime in Rio has always been brazen. When I was there in 2004, I remember reading an article on the front page of O Globe about a gang of thieves in suits who robbed nearly all the residents of an upscale condominium building in Leblon by taking the entire set of apartment keys from the security guard at gunpoint. Each gang member took a different floor and used the keys to enter each apartment. If the residents were home, they were robbed and then tied up so they couldn't call the police. One victim died of a heart attack, so the police were investigating it as a murder. I don't know if anyone was ever caught. There was also a gang going around Ipanema Beach on bicycles, knocking down female tourists and stealing jewelry and watches, all very fast. A place to be on your guard constantly.

Lorenzo

One Wing Low

01-26-06, 05:31

This kind of bus hijacking also happened in Buenos Aires while I was there a few months ago. A couple of armed guys just stepped into the bus at the airport, robbed the passengers and had the bus stop on the emergency lane on the highway. Their getaway car was waiting on the opposite lane. They left with about 10000 USD. There was no targetting of the bus, they just picked a bus full of gringos.

BB.

I was in BA last year. Quite a few banks around tourist areas, even on Florida Ave., had their glass fronts sprayed with bullets by robbers. I was told some of the damages have been there over 6 months and banks did not bother to repair them, as if they expect to be hit again soon.

Pretty scary. Enjoy your life then get out of there quickly.

Prosal

01-26-06, 18:36

I already posted this link last year about violence in Rio: day-by-day reporting (in portugese).

http://noticias.terra.com.br/ultimas/0,,EI316,00.html

Enjoy. lol

Pro

Cachorro

01-26-06, 22:35

Millions of international flights come into Brazil each year. We are talking about a very small number of incidents and nobody has been harmed.

No need to panic.

Get travel insurance and don´t bring anything to Brazil that can´t be replaced. This includes laptops etc.

Enjoy Brazil. But keep your eyes open, and only trust people who are trustworthy.

RexG

01-27-06, 03:45

I was in BA last year. Quite a few banks around tourist areas, even on Florida Ave., had their glass fronts sprayed with bullets by robbers. I was told some of the damages have been there over 6 months and banks did not bother to repair them, as if they expect to be hit again soon.

Pretty scary. Enjoy your life then get out of there quickly.

When I was in BA a couple of years ago there was a lot residual bank damage and many of the banks had their ground floor levels covered in metal cladding that was peppered with small dents. However, the robbers in this case were the banks. When the economy collapsed, they froze everyone's savings accounts and issued phony bonds in return. The populace rioted and caused much of the damage that may still be there today.

Perkele

01-27-06, 03:54

Hi!

Could someone recommend an insurance for a short trip to Brazil? I have no idea how the insurance companies work in US and I can't get insurance from my home country because I'd be traveling from USA.

I appreciate any help.

Thanks.

Java Man

01-27-06, 19:16

it's not just the tourist getting hit:
a couple of armed banditos held up the metropolitian Cathedral in downtown Rio yesterday, they got away with R10,500. that's the Roman Catholic Church, for you non-catholic mongers out there.
the victims were shown a mug book of known robbers, but were unable to identify the assailants.

from oglobo online:

RIO - O pagamento de ajudas de custo a jovens carentes que participam de projetos sociais da Cáritas da Diocese do Rio não vai mais ser centralizado na sede da instituição, dentro da Catedral Metropolitana. A decisão foi tomada após o assalto ocorrido nesta quinta-feira, quando dois homens armados com um revólver renderam funcionários e levaram R$ 10.500 destinados às bolsas do Projeto Reciclagem Solidária.
Segundo o diretor executivo da Cáritas no Rio, Cândido Feliciano, a forma de pagamento será modificada. O pagamento teve de ser temporariamente suspenso e na próxima semana deve se resolver como a reposição será feita.
Os três funcionários que foram rendidos ontem pelos bandidos disseram que eles tinham estado no local na tarde anterior, perguntando sobre o projeto de reciclagem. As vítimas compareceram à 5ª DP (Gomes Freire), mas não reconheceram ninguém no catálogo de fotografias de bandidos e a princípio disseram não *** dar informações para confecção de retrato-falado.

Java Man

01-27-06, 19:38

also from oglobo online:
this ocurred in Porto Alegre thursday at 10p:
an off duty security guard was in front of a building, he saw three unsavory types cross the street coming towards him. not trusting their intentions, he drew his .38 revolver. he then noticed that one of them was armed with a small pistol. the bandito fired, striking the guard in the chest. the bullet was stopped by the guards id badge. the guard returned fire stiking the bandit in the belly. (nice shooting.) both were taken to the same hospital.
the bullet fragment and id badge did penetrate the guards skin, but no vital organs were struck. two of the bad guys, (one of them injured) were captured, third one is at large.

One Wing Low

01-27-06, 21:24

Wow. This must be the pyramid-shape cathedral in Centro.

This is very serious. Looks like Rio's banditos will rob anyone and stop at nothing.

To be safe, mongers should wear body and crotch armors, and employ the services of bodyguards armed with automatic weapons.

it's not just the tourist getting hit:
a couple of armed banditos held up the metropolitian Cathedral in downtown Rio yesterday, they got away with R10,500. that's the Roman Catholic Church, for you non-catholic mongers out there.
the victims were shown a mug book of known robbers, but were unable to identify the assailants.
ncípio disseram não *** dar informações para confecção de retrato-falado.

Bimbo Boy

01-27-06, 22:00

this same scenario happened in sp as well a few months ago. the thieves arrived in a police car car dressed like the police. they highjacked the security guards, took their keys and then robbed the entire building!

a friend of mine that lives in a nice house in an upscale district of sp was robbed during the night a month ago. the whole family (4 kids, 3 girls) were gassed. fortunately not raped. the police told him that it must have been a team of 6 to 7 thieves.

the 23 years old son of a business associate of mine was shot in the head at a stoplight in rio last year. the thief left on his motorbike with 20r$! this man is now broken.

a reason why rio residents are mean and sometimes act ugly with beggars and favella kids, is that they act as informers to the thieves. so they just chase them away with clubs.

sometimes the biggest danger in rio is the police. the son of another business associate of mine was put in jail for a few days and seriously beaten because he was fed up of paying bribes to the traffic cops. he was going to a disco with a girlfriend and was stopped by the cops. he had only a few dozen r$ in his pocket for the entrance that he did not want to give up and it turned ugly.

a lesson: if you are lost, never stop and ask your way to the police!

regards.

crime in rio has always been brazen. when i was there in 2004, i remember reading an article on the front page of o globe about a gang of thieves in suits who robbed nearly all the residents of an upscale condominium building in leblon by taking the entire set of apartment keys from the security guard at gunpoint. each gang member took a different floor and used the keys to enter each apartment. if the residents were home, they were robbed and then tied up so they couldn't call the police. one victim died of a heart attack, so the police were investigating it as a murder. i don't know if anyone was ever caught. there was also a gang going around ipanema beach on bicycles, knocking down female tourists and stealing jewelry and watches, all very fast. a place to be on your guard constantly.
lorenzo

Java Man

01-27-06, 22:06

yes, it is the pyramid-shape cathedral in Centro. i've attached a pic found online.

Rio Bob

01-29-06, 00:37

Rio buses and trams 'unsafe'
By Charles Starmer-Smith (Filed: 28/01/2006)

The Foreign Office has advised travellers not to use buses and trams in major Brazilian cities after 31 Britons were attacked and robbed at gunpoint on the way from Rio airport to their city centre hotel last week.

"Travel by bus or tram in Rio de Janeiro, Recife and Salvador is not safe," the Foreign Office says on its website, www.fco.gov.uk. "Tour buses have also been hijacked in urban areas."

"It would be like getting hijacked on the M4 from Heathrow to London," said Ian Fry, the managing director of Horse Racing Abroad, the firm that organised the holiday. Replacement passports were issued to the tourists and the tour proceeded as scheduled.

The Foreign Office advises visitors to use taxis or the metro and says that thefts from cars are common. Cars have also been hijacked and drivers forced to withdraw money from an ATM.

One Wing Low

01-29-06, 05:12

yes, it is the pyramid-shape cathedral in Centro. i've attached a pic found online.

The Cathedral looks like the Chichen Itza ruin, or like a very large bee hive from the outside.

Inside there is a very large altar and many balconies from the ground up to the 20th floor where people can attend mass. There is an elevator outside that takes people up to the higher floors.

The Cathedral's architecture is very unique with its Mayan looks and very ambitious in providing multi floors for worshipers. This Cathedral has no resemblance with traditional Spanish or Roman architecture. It's worth a visit right after you get out of terma 4x4.

Lover Boy #2

01-30-06, 10:36

https://www.travelex-insurance.com/Consumer/Welcome.htmx

I have used these guys Perkele. It seemed professional, with good paperwork online. However, I have no claims experience with them.

Rio Bob

02-14-06, 02:53

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (Reuters) - Angry Brazilian police officers demanding higher pay staged a protest in Rio de Janeiro's international airport on Friday, warning tourists they cannot rely on the crime-ridden city's poorly paid cops.

"Perhaps you are in danger," a banner read in English as about 20 members of Rio state Civil Police Union distributed leaflets in various languages and spoke to tourists arriving in Rio two weeks before its Carnival celebrations.

"Police here are not inspired to do a good job and in this situation tourists run the risk of being robbed," said Fernando Bandeira, president of the union and a senior investigator with Civil Police, which handles investigations in Brazil.

Rio police chief Alvaro Lins suspended the participants.

"Such actions are not envisaged by the police statute. The participants were ordered to hand in their guns and badges," a Civil Police spokesman said.

Rio is already infamous as one of the world's most violent cities. Tourism officials complain this image does little to boost the number of tourists, even though many still come to enjoy the oceanside city's natural beauty.

"Maybe the sector's entrepreneurs will pressure the governor to resolve our wage situation," Bandeira said.

Detectives and other civil police agents are demanding a salary increase of 50 percent. The average wage is $550 per month. They say they have to resort to moonlighting or apply for jobs elsewhere to make ends meet.

Full Throttle

02-14-06, 15:15

At least they got those offensive postcards clad with pretty girls off the shelves...

I happened to be at the airport Friday Morning. The group was very respectful and was handing out fliers. There were as many cameras as protestors. In a culture where job actions and demonstration are so commonplace, I'm surprised they're coming down so hard.

FT

Gladiator

02-14-06, 21:57

The average wage is $550 per month. They say they have to resort to moonlighting or apply for jobs elsewhere to make ends meet.

Do they mean US$550? If so, it sounds like a good salary under Rio standards.

Big Dick

02-15-06, 06:03

Do they mean US$550? If so, it sounds like a good salary under Rio standards.It's Reais.

Art Fartzalot

02-19-06, 09:57

my buddy jorge who doesn't speak portugese and little spanish and i were staying in cocacabana and were planning on visiting quatro x quatro in centro rio not realizing they closed sat at 6 pm.

we took a bus from cocacabana to train station and took it to our stop, he wanted to go have a meal at bar luiz in centro which is the oldest bar in rio established 1887, its a german restaurant/bar.

we got off the train and met a brazilian guy who was helpful and pointed us in the right direction of bar luiz, we walked by some real shade tree looking bum like characters at the rail station, which is not all that untypical of rail stations.

in states i always carry minimum 22 derringer, + 9 mm glock model 26 with me, which i can't do in rio but did have a comb knife with a 6 inch blade that looks like a comb but one pulls on the handle and a nice stainless steal 6 in blade knife pulls out. goes in to checked luggage and never a problem with airport machines though as somehow accidently slipped into my carry on bag when leaving ba, metal detector did spot but attendant didn't realize comb was a knife so was able to board plane without detection, though did ditch on plane as was changing planes in sao paulo and knew would have to go through another metal detector and didn't realize it was with me, and didn't want to spend time in some jail answering where i got this potentially concealed weapon, etc , especially trying to board plane in these security conscious days.

anyway , we have a nice meal at bar luiz, and i ask waiter where rua buenos aires is, he tells me, its very close like 3 blocks, sun is still out. shoulda, woulda got a taxi, but didn't and think we came out of the restaurant and turned the wrong way, so we we went 3 blocks into a real bad type area, glass broken in the streets, fairly deserted on a saturday, maybe busy monday - friday but its dead on saturday afternoons late..

my friend b4 we left , said, man, i see all these brazilian dudes wearing sandals and so i am going to wear my sandals i brought along. unless i am at the beach, i am more of a gym shoe person. i noticed when we walked from the train station to bar luiz that my friend was not keeping up with me and think sandals was slowing him down, he is bigger than me, approx 6 ft , 210 lbs, me 5 ft 9 , 185 lbs.

so we are walking from bar luiz trying to get to 4 x 4 not realizing it had closed, we walked by a church, and turned down a street, and i noticed from the rear, a dude with no shirt on was approaching us, and thought my friend was closer to me than he was, he was probably 8 ft -10 ft behind me. i told my friend, hey this begger is approaching and to wave him off.

the dude approached me, and i shook my finger and said no, and i did speed up my pace of walking as i assumed my friend would also, kinda forgetting he had sandals on and not gym shoes so a space developed between us.

this piece of shit got himself in between me and my friend, my back was to him and i thought my friend was much closer to me than he was. next thing i heard was my friend yelling , help, help. and this bastard who was smaller but very agile , had grabbed his shirt pocket, and his rear pants pocket, and attempted to trip him, which fortunately he didn't..

simultaneously , this slimeball had a buddy rapidly approaching the two of them, which i was unaware of. i heard my friend yell, and i turned around quickly, and saw the other guy approaching, fortunately they had no weapons and he had not quite not yet reached my friend as 2 of them might have presented a problem.

i pulled the knife out and rapidly went back to help my friend. my friend had punched the guy in the face, and his friend saw i had a knife and yelled to his friend that i was coming with a knife, they elected to split thankfully and so did we , running in the other direction. i really didn't want to slash his wrists and make him bleed as i didn't want to deal with cops/courts potentially or other friends of theirs.

no cabs around, no cops around for about 2 blocks, did find a cab, my friend was shaken as he had not been in rio 36 hours and nite b4 had a problem with a gal we near help as he didn't get a price b4 banging her and she wanted $400 when she got done.

we were real fortunate nothing more happened, my friend was very glad i had my comb knife with me and we finally hailed a cab who took us like one block from 4 x4 which is seemingly on a 1 way street and we then found out it was closed.

we talked to a dude who turned out was a hustler for another terma, terma 1069 or something, we walked up stairs and seemed real nasty, we paid 20 cover charge each and decided to split back to cocacabana.

i guess one has to have the bad times to appreciate the good but this was a little close and we were careless not careful, wondering around a strange area, i'm in daytona now and there are certain areas of daytona one wouldn't go unarmed, etc in either just like most cities.

next time will take a cab and call 4 x 4 before we go, so i wound up going to l'uoma and met a nice little blonde for a cabin session.

b careful in rio, mongers,especially in al centro on saturdays when all the workers aren't there.

art