Rio de Janeiro - Crime & Safety [Archive] - Page 4

Chris H

11-23-07, 16:30

I have never been in a city where everyone walks so fast. They do not do it for exercise, they do not do it because they are in a hurry. They do it for one reason -- they don't want to be a target. There certainly is crime in other cities, however in Rio the concern is not being a victim of crime. The concern is dying. If the criminals don't kill you, the police will. That is not hype. That is reality.

On a positive note, I think the presence of the police on the beach has helped prevent a lot of problems there. The shoe shine guys, for example, are nowhere to be found. However, that does not mean other areas are safe.

One of my girlfriends told me to be extra careful this time of year. She said the criminals need money for Christmas. Do you think if I carried gift certificates to Lojas Americanas it would help in the event of a robbery?
You are right ET, there is alot of police presence near or on the beach, and both times that I have been to Rio that has been the case,maybe thats why I have not felt in danger like I might would in the states. In the states, being black, some people have to be even scared of the police, because they are the ones commiting the crimes on blacks and getting away with it.

Also, people do get robbed and killed for cell phones, shoes, coats, and anything else worthless in the states all the time.

Chris H

Java Man

11-23-07, 20:51

In the states, being black, some people have to be even scared of the police, because they are the ones commiting the crimes on blacks and getting away with it.

Also, people do get robbed and killed for cell phones, shoes, coats, and anything else worthless in the states all the time.

Chris H

That begs a question, Chris H: Where in the states do you live? Motor City, the Rotten Apple, the Big Easy, Compton??
I live on the south side of Chicago, petty crime occurs here daily. Petty crime that results in death does not. In my 40+ years of living here, I have not been personally attack. But my garage has been broken into twice and once an attempt was made to burglarize my home.
The point being made by others, is that one is at greater risk of being assaulted while in Rio. An assault that can result in bodily harm or death. Based on your experiences in the States, you disagree with that. Also when in Rio, one also has to be wary of the police, regardless of ones skin color. As the two San Francisco police officers found out when they were in Rio during the Pan Am games.
BTW, I too, have walked alone from Help to Balcony, on Av Atlantica and Av N.S. Copacabanna, between 12a and 4a, with no problems. (Do at your own risk.) And YES, I was walking briskly.
Hey, what can I say? I'm from the southside of Chicago, and know how to handle myself. LOL (You can put that on my Tombstone, along with the pepperoni.)

Tungurahua

11-23-07, 21:45

... the states is probable more dangerous (than rio/brazil) ... brazilian or us cities, which is more dangerous? hands down brazil wins the title of most dangerous and violent country between the two. to drive the point home i am not even going to look at beatings, muggings, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123), etc.

a conservative 2007 murder rate for brazil is 23.8 per 100,000 people. do the math. extend that ratio to brazil's 190,000,000 population. 190,000,000 / 100,000 = 1900 x 23.8 = 45,220 murders per year.

the united states, with approximately 300,000,000 people, had 16,900 murders/manslaughters in year 2005 (5.63 homicides per 100,000 people).

brazil has 63% of the us population yet 2.7x more murders. to add to this: i trust us numbers more than i do brazilian ones, as in brazil's is probably higher.

are certain cities and city-sectors dangerous in brazil and the us? yes.

but which is more intensely dangerous throughout? brazil.

add to this as a canadian i would trust an american police officer far easier than i would a brazilian one. though many a disgruntled american and us basher will argue, the degree of legal rot is not as bad in the us as it is in brazil.

and if totalitarian lincoln had been shot a few years earlier the usa would be even better today. the individual states and their citizens would work together in cooperation rather than under coercion.

... i have almost been in every country in this world ... all the countries i have been in i have always blended in with the regulars and no one was ever able to tell if i wasnt from there country ... wow. i can blend in well in many cultures due to my mixture of colorings. but damn, you must be an incredibly curious mix of european, asian and african to be able to blend in unnoticed with the peoples of all countries. ;-)

Lorenzo

11-24-07, 07:44

I have almost been in every country in this world and let me tell you thats a lot of places in the last 35 years.....All the countries i have been in i have always blended in with the regulars and no one was ever able to tell if i wasnt from there country........

Tiger
What are you, a human chameleon? Or maybe a modern version of Woody Allen's Zelig? I think you are deluding yourself; most nationals can spot an outsider a mile away. Your self-knowledge is probably on a par with your knowledge of spelling, punctuation, capitalization, and grammar; in a word, zilch!

El Austriaco

12-01-07, 01:48

Following in the footsteps of "War in Rio", a game which is making headlines in Brazil right now, another game based on the recent Brazilian blockbuster "Tropa de Elite" is in the works. Apparently, players can choose to be straight or corrupt cops ("verme") or drug dealers. In the later case, you have to elect whether you want to have the respect of your community by organizing samba schools, bailes funke and bringing electric power to the morro, or rather be feared and hated (through lots of assassinations). Either way, the goal of the game consists in establishing the largest number of profitable drug POS in the favelas you control. Pretty sleek, hm?

Interestingly enough, talking about War in Rio, in readers poll conducted by O Globo, almost 32% of respondents indicated that the day-to-day life of Cariocas is far worse than suggested by the game...

Links:

Tropa de Elite game:
http://extra.globo.com/rio/materias/2007/11/30/327385326.asp

War in Rio game:

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2007/11/30/327387666.asp
http://extra.globo.com/rio/materias/2007/11/28/327365504.asp

EA

El Austriaco

12-01-07, 01:55

Tiradentes

12-02-07, 04:43

As of today, here are the tabulated responses to a recent O Globo survey, which asked "Have you reacted or would you react when assaulted?"

So much about what the people living there think about offering any resistance when assaulted in Rio. Something to keep in mind, everyone.

EANote to the wise: Don't expect any help from those coward brazilians if you are assaulted.

I was assaulted at 11:45 pm, Decemebr 31st 2006, on Copacabana beach (15 min before the fireworks).There were tons of people there watching me being attacked by 6 punks. Yet, nobody lifted a finger. Buch of pu**ies

JohnnyBraz

12-03-07, 04:35

As of today, here are the tabulated responses to a recent O Globo survey, which asked "Have you reacted or would you react when assaulted?"

- "Never, my life is worth much more than anything": 39%
- "Depends on the situation: how many assailants, and whether they are armed": 29%
- "Yes, I have, and I would react again": 16%
- "Yes, I have, and I shouldn't have": 10%
- "No, I haven't, but I think I should have": 5%

Quite interestingly, those saying that they would never react outnumber those saying that they would react by more than 2 to 1. And those who now think they shouldn't have resisted outnumber those those who now think they should have by 2 to 1, too.

So much about what the people living there think about offering any resistance when assaulted in Rio. Something to keep in mind, everyone.

EABasically, unless a gun was involved, I would react all the way, regardless off how many off them and the other weapons they had on them (eg. Knife, bars, ect). Everything around me is a weapon, tables, chairs bottles fuck them, I could never live with myself if I bowed to them, but I am slightly different to most people on here, ex pro boxer, ex competitive body builder, still weighing 95kg 5% bodyfat 1. 72cm tall. But never bow, otherwise they will continue to do this stuff.

Perkele

12-03-07, 05:23

Sperto

12-03-07, 08:24

Note to the wise: Don't expect any help from those coward brazilians if you are assaulted.
It's not only because you´re a gringo. I've seen brazilians getting mugged daytime on busy street and nobody trying to stop the mugger.

Other times it has been the contrary, everybody chasing the mugger and when catching him almost beating him to death.

Pipe Layer99

12-03-07, 09:58

What did you expect?
Look it at their point of view:

1. You are a gringo
2. Copacabana
3. Muggers probably armed

This leads to: Why help a gringo, who is here just mongering especially when I might end up dead while helping.
...

Someone should have stepped in especially if there were many people around.

Sorry you had to go through that crap T. Next trip try to stick with some friends or other fellow hunters.

I bet Perk would just watch if a foreigner was getting mugged in his country. Some people are just and ignorant and have no balls. I for one would have done something. I dunno, maybe its just my nature from growing up in a tough city like Chicago. Donnie D

Perkele

12-03-07, 12:02

Someone should have stepped in especially if there were many people around.

Sorry you had to go through that crap T. Next trip try to stick with some friends or other fellow hunters.

I bet Perk would just watch if a foreigner was getting mugged in his country. Some people are just and ignorant and have no balls. I for one would have done something. I dunno, maybe its just my nature from growing up in a tough city like Chicago. Donnie D

Funny, funny.

Another BRAVE american. Good for you. Next time you see someone mugged in Copa, please do go and help him out. I'm more than happy to read about it in the newspaper.

In MY country I would help if somebody would be mugged, but in Copacabana no. Especially new years eve, surrounded by 2 million drunken brasilians who wouldn't understand what the hell is going on... and muggers most probably being armed. Fucking suicide.
Even local police won't lift a finger, they know better.

Seems that YOU don't understand that those favela boys have NOTHING to lose, absolutely NOTHING.

Sperto

12-03-07, 12:46

I've been lucky so far, but IMO I would react if I would get assaulted, unless there is a gun involved. That might not always be wise (but I've never been wise anyway).

Helping a stranger who is getting mugged in Copa? Think twice. Apart from risking your health or even your life you'll have to watch over your shoulder for the rest of your stay in Rio. The mugger might have a lot of not so nice favela-buddies who wouldn't think twice about getting a revenge on you.

Voyajer1

12-03-07, 13:17

Sorry you had to endure an incident and that you are OK. If they were just being punks and ganging up on a gringo, I am sorry no one helped out. But if they were trying to mug you, just let them have the stuff. Anything we have can be replaced. The only thing that can't be replaced is one of us. No matter what I do, I dress down (Way, way down) so I don't atract any attention. If you look worse than they do, chances are you WILL be left alone. I guess, it makes them feel good that someone is having a tougher time than they are and be simpathetic. I am just glad they don't ever take a second look or try talking to me, that is a dead giveaway. So, no matter what the occasion, I try and look as bad as I can to stay under the radar. That is the best advise I can give you if you plan on coming back here again. This is my personal opinion, however, it has worked everywhere I've been (Over 35 countries and counting). It is all about getting ass at decent prices anyway...

Note to the wise: Don't expect any help from those coward brazilians if you are assaulted.

I was assaulted at 11:45 pm, Decemebr 31st 2006, on Copacabana beach (15 min before the fireworks).There were tons of people there watching me being attacked by 6 punks. Yet, nobody lifted a finger. Buch of pu**ies

Sperto

12-03-07, 14:22

No matter what I do, I dress down (Way, way down) so I don't atract any attention. If you look worse than they do, chances are you WILL be left alone.
Dressing down a little bit is OK, but isn't it difficult to dress down looking worse than the muggers do? A gringo dressed that bad will attract some attention.

You don't have to dress down that hard. Just dress like the average carioca and you'll be fine.

Prosal

12-03-07, 14:44

No matter what I do, I dress down (Way, way down)
No need to wonder why regular middle/upper classes zona sul hotties, who are very fashion-conscious, look down at sex-tourists and choose to stick to the local guys.

lol

Lorenzo

12-03-07, 19:13

Note to the wise: Don't expect any help from those coward brazilians if you are assaulted.

I was assaulted at 11:45 pm, Decemebr 31st 2006, on Copacabana beach (15 min before the fireworks).There were tons of people there watching me being attacked by 6 punks. Yet, nobody lifted a finger. Buch of pu**ies

Sorry to hear about your trouble. Something less drastic happened to me a few years ago when I was taken by surprise and knocked down from behind with cops 30 feet away who did nothing. So I have an idea how you feel.

That having been said, I think you are being quite unfair to Brazilians. What makes you think the bystander response is in any way peculiar to Brazil? If a tourist was being beaten up by six punks in New York's Central Park, or on Venice Beach in L.A., or in Hyde Park in London, or on the Champs Elysee in Paris, or on the Via Veneto in Rome, do you think the bystander response would be any different? I don't think so. Someone might call the police, but nobody would intervene directly when it would mean bodily harm and possible death to the person helping.

Does anyone remember the notorious Kitty Genovese incident in NYC way back in 1964? A young woman coming home from work in a residential working class neighborhood was stalked by a mugger with a knife who eventually killed her. This incident was witnessed by at least a dozen neighbors from their apartment windows, yet not a single one intervened or even called the police. This incident was publicized for many years afterwards as a classic instance of big city callousness. So I don't think what happened to you, unfortunately, is in any way surprising. It is a universal urban phenomenon, with the emphasis on urban. If this happened in a small town anywhere in the world, then people would probably rush to help you. But I think urban citizens throughout the world have come to accept random violence as just part of life.

L

Voyajer1

12-04-07, 03:05

Gentlemen: I get your point. What I meant by underdressing is to look at what the locals wear and take it down. For example: Instead of slacks and a polo or collared shirt, I always wear jeans and a t-shirt. Instead of dress shoes or loafers (Like the locals wear), I wear sneakers. I go to the back of the closet and find something none flashy, hopefully with a worn sole, just like they do. On the beach, I wear sandals, shorts, t-shirt, hat (Local) and shades to stay under the radar. This keep the shit in your shoes boys at bay. Folks, I have a bad habit of walking around with a few thousand reals in my pocket. The absolute last thing I'm going to do is to flaunt what I've got. I KNOW what I've got, they just don't need to know about it. Now, for the ladies, well they get a royal pampering followed by a royal screwing if you know what I mean. Forget the regular middle/upper classes zona sul hotties. They are plenty of beautiful regular folk who like to hang out with people like us. I just don't talk about it. That's all. No offense to anyone on this board, but be comfortable in your own skin and forget what folks in these countries think about us. I always treat them with the utmost dignity and respect. It is about self preservation out there, and of course getting some juicy, phat, shapely bundas ;-).

No need to wonder why regular middle/upper classes zona sul hotties, who are very fashion-conscious, look down at sex-tourists and choose to stick to the local guys.

lol

Mr Enternational

12-04-07, 05:57

No matter what I do, I dress down so I don't atract any attention.

My standard Rio dress is bluejean/bluejean shorts, tank-top/t-shirt, flip-flops, black timex sports watch, and NO wallet. Optional drawstring gym bag if I am going to the beach or downtown.

Java Man

02-25-08, 08:01

El Austriaco

02-26-08, 01:57

Or "Welcome to Brazil, a Paradise of Impunity for All Kinds of Criminals."
Very interesting read at Brazzil.com about Brazil's broken legal system. Everyone who travels to Brazil should read this. Incredible how they deal with juvenile crime.
Good information to know should one get into trouble.
http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/10042/1/
Overall, a good article, but some of his statistics are way off. For example:

"Once known internationally as the Cidade Maravilhosa (The Marvellous City), Rio de Janeiro can now be better described as a "powder keg" or a "city under siege." More people die every year in that city as victims of violence than did all American soldiers during the Vietnam War."

Let's see, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties, some 59,000 or so Americans were killed in Vietnam. As far as I know, the homicide rate for Rio is something like 2000 per year or so. Quite a difference...

For murder rates by country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate

El Austriaco

02-27-08, 23:25

I just watched the entire movie on Youtube (30 individual segments, each about 4 min long or so). Sorry, no subtitles :(

First Part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWHP2Xz4zHs&NR=1
Last Part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQMUftxPPgk&feature=related

Go for the ones saying Tropa de Elite (Part 2), (Part 3) and so on and so forth until the end (Part 31). There's no Part 27, as far as I can see, but there's nothing missing.

Enjoy, and remember: "Porra, na cara, não!"

EA

Benjoe

02-29-08, 12:05

Tropa de Elite is out on dvd (not pirated) in Brazil (30 reais) and Europe.

Off Road

02-29-08, 18:47

Tropa de Elite is out on dvd (not pirated) in Brazil (30 reais) and Europe.I saw it in Blockbuster here in Rio yesterday. No english subtitles though.

Sprite13

03-01-08, 06:13

Just watched the first part and Id like to see more of it. Is it available in North America yet?

Ryjerrob

03-01-08, 17:39

Just watched the first part and Id like to see more of it. Is it available in North America yet?

I downloaded a copy off using emule. It comes as an avi file, but I converted it, and watched it in a regular dvd player. Good luck.

ryjer

Ryjerrob

03-01-08, 17:40

Jan 156

03-02-08, 18:51

This movie has done well critically outside of Brasil. On the other hand, I had a long chat with some very articulate indie Brasilian filmmakers who are ashamed of the way it portrays their country and focuses gratuitously on isolated violent culture.

Rio is not The Bronx. Would you like it if foreigners thought Taxi Driver was a typical view of the violence in New York?

And to the frequent poster here who goes to lengths on another forum describing City of God as a favela - you should know better. It is not a favela, just a poor suburb. There's a difference.

Cho 637

03-03-08, 01:09

This movie has done well critically outside of Brasil. On the other hand, I had a long chat with some very articulate indie Brasilian filmmakers who are ashamed of the way it portrays their country and focuses gratuitously on isolated violent culture.

Rio is not The Bronx. Would you like it if foreigners thought Taxi Driver was a typical view of the violence in New York?

And to the frequent poster here who goes to lengths on another forum describing City of God as a favela - you should know better. It is not a favela, just a poor suburb. There's a difference.

Many foreigners think of Chicago as "Home of the Gangsters". Too many Al Capone movies!

Poon Hound

03-03-08, 06:17

Jan 156

03-03-08, 16:17

El Austriaco

03-04-08, 19:34

This movie has done well critically outside of Brasil. On the other hand, I had a long chat with some very articulate indie Brasilian filmmakers who are ashamed of the way it portrays their country and focuses gratuitously on isolated violent culture.
Considering how big, complex, and diverse Brazil is, I'd be surprised if anyone could make a movie that would be anything more than glimpse into one specific aspect of daily life. Just like in the US or in any other country, I suppose. I guess what really matters is how representative that glimpse is to illustrate the daily reality of a significant part of the population. And considering that 25% or more of Cariocas live in favelas and have to deal with drug traffickers, police incursions, shoot-outs, etc., I do think that the movie shows something very real for quite a number of people. Not for all of them, of course.

Whether that reality is portrayed in a truthful manner, only favela residents will be able to tell.

Rio is not The Bronx. Would you like it if foreigners thought Taxi Driver was a typical view of the violence in New York?.
You know, I don't like the way "Sound of Music" portrays my home town, either ;)

And to the frequent poster here who goes to lengths on another forum describing City of God as a favela - you should know better. It is not a favela, just a poor suburb. There's a difference.
True, Cidade de Deus was initially created as a housing project so that people wouldn't have to live in favelas, at a time when favelas were still routinely razed. So while technically, it might not meet one definition of a favela (squatter settlement on third-party or public land), there is no doubt that drug trafficking plays a major role there, which is another key element that people usually employ to define a favela. Also, when I reviewed press coverage of crime in Rio last year, there were numerous references to Cidade de Deus as a favela in the Brazilian media (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=604974&postcount=684). Be it as it may be, it's probably not a good idea for a newbie to venture there out of curiosity, thinking "well, it's not really a favela, so I should check it out".

EA (not the poster on another forum)

Jan 156

03-04-08, 23:12

True, Cidade de Deus was initially created as a housing project so that people wouldn't have to live in favelas, at a time when favelas were still routinely razed. So while technically, it might not meet one definition of a favela (squatter settlement on third-party or public land), there is no doubt that drug trafficking plays a major role there, which is another key element that people usually employ to define a favela. Also, when I reviewed press coverage of crime in Rio last year, there were numerous references to Cidade de Deus as a favela in the Brazilian media (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=604974&postcount=684). Be it as it may be, it's probably not a good idea for a newbie to venture there out of curiosity, thinking "well, it's not really a favela, so I should check it out".

EA (not the poster on another forum)

Well I wasn't referring to you El A - if you've been describing it as a favela I hadn't noticed. 'Favela' is not just a description, it's an official designation. If you look at official maps (and most unofficial ones), favelas are given names but are not mapped. Cidade de Deus is a housing project. If you visit it and then visit a favela - even a 'posh' one like Rocinha - you will see a big difference. Calling C.de>deus a favela is not a matter of opinion it's just a mistake which many people make. The favelas are built on hillsides, usually considered too steep for normal buildings. They are all run unofficially, and law and order is probably quite good compared to say Copacabana - but for those who live there. I am not suggesting anyone go to a favela or to C.de.Deus without a carioca or other suitable guide (or many other suburbs, some of which are quite interesting and worth going to, unlike Cidade d.Deus). But favelas are an entirely different phenomenon to housing projects or other poor areas. They are built differently, there are different rules, the have there own system of law and order, and mostly they work quite well. To suggest they are havens of lawlessness is pretty inaccurate, even if the media (and RJ establishment) like to portray them like that. The majority of people living in favelas are ordinary decent people.

Lula has done much for the favelas - first time anyone has afaik - but they got exceedingly pissed off when he told everyone how well Brasil was doing (which is only true for Brasil's economy generally) especially when he sent in special forces that were ill-trained to catch drug lords but killed fairly indiscriminately in the process.

Most media outlets are not authoritative sources of information and because they call C.de.Deus a favela it doesn't make it one. Or help the problems for people living there. Since you know you way around quite well I am surprised at you making such a statement if it wasn't tongue in cheek.

Personally I didn't see any references in the Brasililan press to C.de.Deus as a favela during last year's commotions - which were mostly in favelas, to which there were constant references (I almost got shot btw, and it wasn't in C.de.Deus).

ps I've just read your link and see you were maybe having a go at me - for goodness knows what reason. I have never said victims should fight back. There's many posts where I have said the opposite. Duh . . .

WhoIsIt

03-04-08, 23:31

Can someone help a rio newbie? I will be there soon on my first trip to Brazil (staying in Ipanema) and want to go to 4x4. I will be alone and assume it will be best to take a taxi. Will I face any problem getting a taxi back?Taking a taxi is the safest bet. Some people I know take the subway from Copa or Ipanema, but I would not. I usually stay in Flamengo, which is closer, and the taxi costs around 10. 12 Rs. It will be more from Ipanema for sure. As for the taxi back, the doorman at 4x4 will get you one. There are usually several right outside. In the event you have to wait, he will get you from just inside the door when the taxi is outside with the door open. Give him a few Rs for his trouble.

Mr Enternational

03-06-08, 01:47

City of God is not a favela in the true original definition of such. It is not built on a hillside with squatters. However, it is a subdivision or neighborhood of the suburb of Jacarepagua. As such, it has normal neighborhood things: houses, apartments, markets, shops, restaurants, parks, and a nice, rather new large grocery store. I think that the crossover comes with the "essence" of a favela, which tends to make one think of crime and mischief. In this sense then it could be classified as a favela. It is the same as in the U.S. when government projects came to be known as areas of crime and mischief. The word "projects" or "hood" then became synonymous with any area that was considered "bad," although it may have been a non-government apartment or neighborhood.

What most people know of City of God is from a movie which was set in only one apartment complex (arguably the worst) in the suburban area. However the overall place is nothing how it was portrayed in the movie. Of course there are some bad mfs there, but there are bad mfs everywhere. My ex-girlfriend and her family lived there before moving to Minas Gerais a couple of months ago. I stayed there many times without incident. Her mother lived next door (in an area with houses, not apartments) to the mother of Ze who was portrayed in the movie. I remember my first trip to her mother's house. We left my girlfriend's crib and crossed over the main street (Avenida Miguel Salazar Mendes de Morais) and into her mom's part of the neighborhood. At the side street entrance the asphalt had been dug up across the width of the street. There was water and all kind of junk in the hole that was left. My girlfriend said that the banditos did it so that the police could not drive onto the street.

I never once (that I know of) saw any of the many banditos. And at times I would take the vans home very late from hanging out in Copa. The only thing out of the ordinary that I ever noticed that was one night while going to sleep I heard distant gunshots followed by sirens. Other than that my visits were peaceful. I didn't take many pictures, but here are a couple. Her mom's kitchen, my ex's den, and another right outside my ex's apartment building. You really can not tell anything from the pics.

Perkele

03-10-08, 16:26

We may discuss as much as we want here, but it would all be semantics.

Cidade de deus is a Favela. They do not pay any taxes, water, TV, electricity etc. and drugs and violence are common. Thus, not matter if there lives some good people its a favela just like Complexo alemao.

Benjoe

03-12-08, 00:11

Can someone help a rio newbie? I will be there soon on my first trip to Brazil (staying in Ipanema) and want to go to 4x4. I will be alone and assume it will be best to take a taxi. Will I face any problem getting a taxi back?
In going home, just wait in front of 4x4, and a taxi will drive by every few minutes. No taxi driver will have a problem getting you back to Ipanema. You will have agreater problem in finding a taxi driver to take you there. Not all drivers know where it is, and if you don't know exactly how to get there, it will be best to get a driver who knows where it is. Showing a driver a map won't do any good. They won't know how to read it and will just get directions from someone/anyone.

Unkown

03-13-08, 02:46

Have been to Lapa in Rio last weekend, two guys were missing their wallet, one his digicam. Take care of pickpocketing there! I just had all the time my hands in my pockets, worked fine Another guy got a cinderella k. O. Drink in a club in lapa, he has been robed during he slept.

Overall no problems in Rio, quite safe everywere!

Volpone

03-16-08, 10:14

Tiradentes

03-16-08, 15:38

Safe as long you play right, you act right and you don't take too many risks.....
If you watch the news on the Brasilian tv, you will see that Rio is not so safe.
When you walk in Copacabana, you don't see so many policemen or when you see them, you just see a group of them.....I found Rio much more dangerous than LIma for ex.
The dangerous suburbs in Lima are far from Miraflores.
That's not the case in Rio. Every suburb has got his favelas and not so many policemen like in Lima.
Many tourists are aimed by some locals, especially teenagers, who risks nothing if they are caught. And not the police would catch them, they can not run behind them. Who cares for some dollars that some tourists have lost......
Be careful in some parks too. If you notice, that you are alone or not many people around, don't go.....Just stay where many people are......Even in Copacabana....

Fully agree with you, but I want to add the following:

The crowded places in Rio are as much dangerous as the deserted ones. For example, let's say there are fifty thousand people in Copa watching a free concert (frequent event in Rio), there would be crooks and thieves who will attack and rob you to get money for booze, drugs or even a bus fare. A dozen policemen will not deter them. And the rest of the brazilian population, if you get attacked, will not come to your rescue either.

Under the retarted penal system of Brazil, 'children' younger than 18 years old, will NEVER be judged as adults even if they cut you in pieces. Basically, they have 'carte blanche' to do what they want. A slap on the wrist is the most what they would get.

Pelicano

03-22-08, 14:28

To all in Rio; Be careful of the dengue fever epidemic, it is sometimes as deadly as any bullet.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hlG0YgL2p52p0Ey0wMFoig5OdkvQ

Stay safe!

Off Road

03-22-08, 16:44

To all in Rio; Be careful of the dengue fever epidemic, it is sometimes as deadly as any bullet.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hlG0YgL2p52p0Ey0wMFoig5OdkvQ

Stay safe!The article has one giant problem, says 51 new cases a day. Thursday 2053 new cases were reported, not 51.

The mosquitos that transmit the disease are out in the daytime.

Rio Bob

03-22-08, 19:37

To all in Rio; Be careful of the dengue fever epidemic, it is sometimes as deadly as any bullet.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hlG0YgL2p52p0Ey0wMFoig5OdkvQ

Stay safe!

If you're worried then just spray insect repellant on yourself liberally. But these cases for the most part are not happening in the beach zone, it's happening in the poor remote areas where there is standing water and these mosquitoes breed.

Rio in grip of dengue epidemic
Published: Saturday 22 March 2008 09:08 UTC
Last updated: Saturday 22 March 2008 15:19 UTC
Rio de Janeiro - The outbreak of dengue fever in the Brazilian city of Rio de Janeiro is spreading rapidly. The health authorities say around 2,000 new cases are now being reported every day. Forty-seven people, many of them children, have already died of the disease.

Dengue fever is spread by mosquitoes and in the worst cases results in haemorrhaging and death.

The local authorities have set up a crisis centre and the army has been called in to set up emergency hospital facilities. Queues have been forming at hospitals in Rio de Janeiro, with patients waiting up to six hours for treatment.

Ryjerrob

03-24-08, 19:26

Jan 156

03-26-08, 02:48

This will affect people with weak immune systems. A lot of the people who live in the poor parts of Rio dont get clean drinking water and are malnurished making their immune systems weak. Also the medical staff in Rio is terrible and they dont have a clue what to do.

Isn't more that there's not much treatment anyway for dengue? The medical advice I got was to take paracetamol and rest. You also need lots of fluids. It's spread afaaik by mosquitos so although it doesn't usually hit RJ it can do so from time to time, especially after the wet. If you have poor immune system, as Funky points out, you are at increased risk. And I believe it's more dangerous if you've had it once already.

After a heavy rain you'll maybe get bitten more especially if you hang out in VM or take side trips out of town. In Paraty the doctor basically refused to come out - said if you were too weak to get to the hospital (there's no road transport) just stay in bed. But remember most mozzie bites are irritating, not dangerous. Stock up on those little red antihistamine pills (polaramine - from any Rio chemist/drugstore - they reduce itching) and take whatever measures you think work to keep the blighters off/away.

Jan 156

03-26-08, 03:02

Have been to Lapa in Rio last weekend, two guys were missing their wallet, one his digicam.
F*** sake! What was he doing taking a digicam to Lapa??? And I wouldn't take a wallet either - conceal what money you need, tied with rubber bands if necessary, in various zipped pockets. If you haven't got clothes with zipped pockets, it's easy enough to add some, or even some velcro, before you leave. Watch cariocas. When they take out some money it will be a small amount. If they need a bigger bill then it will be in another pocket or sewn into some lining or anywhere except with the smaller bills. Beer in Lapa is cheap. You don't need a lot of cash for a night out. If you want a video then the best bet is to buy one from a shop in Centro. If you have to take pictures, take a small compact that can slip flat into a pocket and don't take it out for longer than necessary, even during the day (when after all you prob want some piccies of the Arches or the Tram or the graffiti and architecture). Just look around you first and only take it out for the minimum amount of time.

Off Road

03-27-08, 17:02

dengue fever
u.s. consulate rio de janeiro, brazil
march 28, 2008

this warden message is to alert american citizens living or traveling in brazil to the increase of dengue fever cases in the state of rio de janeiro.
according to the state secretariat of health in rio de janeiro there have been 28,233 reported cases of dengue fever in 2008 which have resulted in 54 confirmed deaths and an additional 60 are suspected. these numbers would rival the last significant outbreak in 2002 when 288,245 cases of dengue were reported which resulted in 91 deaths.

dengue fever is caused by a virus, which is transmitted by a mosquito (aedes aegypti). this mosquito is dark, with white stripes on its back and legs, and smaller than a common mosquito. these mosquitoes breed in clean, stagnant water. the mosquito is considered a “day” mosquito. it bites during the day and likes warm, humid places.

signs and symptoms of dengue fever

after the infecting bite, dengue symptoms develop within 3 to 14 days (on average, 4 to 7 days). victims typically experience a sudden high fever, headache, generalized weakness, and intense muscle, joint, and low back pain (hence the term, "break bone fever"). a subtle rash appears in up to half the people affected, although some have a bright red rash with rep001tered clear spots. treatment is purely symptomatic. dengue is usually self-limited, with an average duration of 6 days. most persons with dengue do not need to be hospitalized, but those with persistent fever should seek medical attention as soon as possible

hemorrhagic dengue fever (dhf): and dengue shock syndrome (dss) are rare but severe forms of dengue that may occur in people who previously have been infected with one strain of dengue virus and are later infected by a different strain (there are 4 strains). dhf and dss begin like classic dengue but progress to abdominal pain and vomiting. the most severe cases, if left untreated, can progress to bleeding at sites of minimal trauma, circulatory failure, shock, and death. dhf and dss ordinarily affect only people who live in endemic areas, but there have been rare cases reported in travelers. because of this, travelers who previously have had an episode of dengue fever and who will be re-entering a dengue-endemic area should be aware of the increased possibility of acquiring these severe forms of dengue and should seek medical attention as soon as symptoms appear. travelers with persistent fever should be seen by a healthcare professional. severe abdominal pain, persistent vomiting, an abrupt change from fever to hypothermia with profuse sweating, extreme exhaustion, lethargy, or mental status changes signal the development of shock and require immediate intensive care level medical attention.

how can you prevent the disease?

there is no vaccine for dengue. prevention is based upon taking careful measures to reduce the possibility of mosquito bites. travelers are strongly encouraged to wear light clothing which completely covers arms and legs, and to apply an effective insect repellant, such as those containing deet, to exposed areas of skin. the control of dengue epidemics is based upon reduction of the mosquito population. dengue may be more likely to occur in urban setting due to drainage issues. eliminating standing water in your home and environment including flower pots, tires, puddles, non-chlorinated pools, etc., and screening windows, and wearing insect repellent are strongly recommended.

for further information on dengue fever, see the centers for disease control’s website at: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/submenus/sub_dengue.htm

if you need assistance, please contact the consular section of the consulate in rio de janeiro at avenida presidente wilson 147, rio de janeiro, telephone 21-3823-2000, after-hours telephone 21-3823-2029.
for the latest security information, americans traveling abroad should regularly monitor the department's internet web site at http://travel.state.gov/ where the current worldwide caution public announcement, travel warnings and public announcements can be found. american citizens traveling or residing overseas are encouraged to register with the appropriate u.s. embassy or consulate on the state department's travel registration website at https://travelregistration.state.gov.

sincerely,
chief, consular section

Mr Enternational

03-29-08, 05:20

Brazil teen confesses to 12 killings, police say

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/03/28/brazil.teen.ap/index.html

Java Man

03-29-08, 08:51

what the cnn report didn't tell you, because they probably don't know:

found at brazzil.com

http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/10042/1/

juvenile impunity

"...in brazil, exists the anomaly of having a 17-year-old being able to vote for the president of the republic but not eligible to be held accountable for criminal acts.

this person can face no more than a three-year internment in an "educational establishment." in such "educational" environments, genuinely dangerous youngsters are not properly segregated from those children who are only socially deprived. as a result, the latter have been tortured, murdered and sexually abused by the former, with the complicity of governmental authorities.

whereas brazilian teenagers are authorized to vote at the age of 16, they will not be criminally liable until reaching the age of 18. according to the brazilian constitution, "minors under 18 years of age may not be held criminally liable and shall be subject to the rules of the special legislation.
the legal system does not brand them criminals but instead uses the more euphemistic term infratores (lawbreakers) and does not subject them to punishment.

as a result, every 17-year-old juvenile delinquent, even if he is a notorious serial killer, can only be punished with internment for no more than three years in an "education establishment." this status of impunity explains why thousands of brazilian children are currently working (and risking their lives) in criminal organizations.

"minors often form the backbone of criminal gangs, feeling secure against police enforcement on account of legal impunity... the absurd situation that has brought disrepute to brazil results from the legal and intellectual pretence of classifying murderous teenagers as "abandoned children." as they cannot be legally incriminated or kept out of trouble by legal means, the easy way out for brutal and ignorant police officers is simply to kill them right away, whenever possible."

even if they send him away for 3yrs, there's no guarantee that he will remain there:
"these facilities are so antiquated and overcrowded that there is constant pressure to release the wrongdoers as soon as possible, and children escape from them regularly."
this serial killer can simply walk away from the facility and no one will look for him.

here's another chilling quote: "only a very small number of crimes are ever successfully prosecuted, even first-degree murder and [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)."

maybe they'll release him after the 45 day detention, then maybe the cops or someone else will kill him.

Jan 156

03-30-08, 02:54

Pretty responsible report on the RJ dengue outbreak in this weekend's Economist.
http://www.economist.com/world/la/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10925811

Sunset

04-03-08, 20:01

The average monger including one who frequents "Centro" should not worry his pretty little head about Dengue.

Jan 156

04-08-08, 13:03

Water rising

Whats gonna happen to Rio when the water rises 2 to 20 feet. The process is already underway with all the ice melting and this will cause a rise in the water. The smaller the ice gets the faster it will melt and you will see a rise not in months but overnight.

(Tries to remember which buses go to Rocinha as I suppose 4x4 will relocate . . . )

Off Road

04-08-08, 15:05

Water rising

Whats gonna happen to Rio when the water rises 2 to 20 feet. The process is already underway with all the ice melting and this will cause a rise in the water. The smaller the ice gets the faster it will melt and you will see a rise not in months but overnight. Very scary be prepared.
Thank God I am on an upper floor. Wonder where I can store a jet ski to get around.

JuiceGuy

04-08-08, 16:26

Water rising

Whats gonna happen to Rio when the water rises 2 to 20 feet. The process is already underway with all the ice melting and this will cause a rise in the water. The smaller the ice gets the faster it will melt and you will see a rise not in months but overnight. Very scary be prepared.

Hopefully the chica prices will go down! :)

Trippleecks

04-09-08, 12:20

Funkignitor, I guess the same as will happen in NYC, Miami, New Orleans, Amsterdam and any other costal city. However, since the average global temp has not risen in over 10 years, my guess is nothing will happen at all.

Mr Enternational

04-10-08, 02:44

You have to be kidding me. A U.S. ICE agent down in Brazil fucking 12 year old little boys and taking pictures in a 5 star hotel? In the police video production they have the kid, the agent, and the two pimps/blackmailers. They had footage of the younger pimp dude Jose on the side of Meia Pataca. The older guy is the person who makes those sand sculptures on the beach side of Meia Pataca. I don't know if any members recognize them or not. Sick bastards man.

P.S.: To see the video you have to be a member of Oglobo, and to read the captions you have to read portuguese.

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2008/04/09/menor_diz_que_aliciadores_queriam_chantagear_turista_americano-426760393.asp

Sperto

04-10-08, 07:18

Truly sick bastards. The pimps, the tourist and also the hotel staff that lets the boy enter the hotel.

The sand sculpture is just in front of Meia Pataca, just between all the barracas in front of Othon Palace and the barraca of Tía Maria. This part of the beach is a small stretch that's like a no man's land, always attracting the street kids, muggers, drug-addicts, beggers, hippies, and lowclass-GPs. In the center of this crowd is the sand sculpture guy acting like the King of the Scum.

I always stay at my favourite barraca Tía Maria. Sitting there I can't helping observing the sand sculpture guy and his crowd. At this sand sculpture they sleep, take a crap, sell drugs, smoke dope and even steal from their sleeping colleagues.

At several occasions I´ve noticed that this asshole Ivan (Bira) has been messing with street kids and gringos. Hopefully he will get a good beating in the prison.

P.S Can somebody please step on his sand sculpture. :)

Java Man

04-10-08, 09:27

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-04-09-brazil-officer_N.htm

"SAO PAULO, Brazil (AP) — A Brazilian judge issued an arrest warrant Wednesday for a U.S. immigration officer accused of soliciting an 11-year-old boy for sex in Rio de Janeiro.

Michael Joseph Clifford, 43, of Providence, Rhode Island allegedly took the boy, one of Rio de Janeiro's many impoverished street children, to his Copacabana hotel room last month and paid him US$175 for sex, police inspector Jairo Pessanha said.

Clifford, who has since returned to the United States, is accused of child sex exploitation and sexual abuse of minors. The charges that carry up to 26 years in prison, Pessanha said.

The Associated Press left messages seeking comment at several phone numbers listed under Clifford's name in the Providence area, but they were not immediately returned.

The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Washington said the agent has been placed on leave while it conducts its own investigation.

Brazilian authorities say hotel personnel handed over security camera footage showing Clifford and the boy entering the hotel at 3:00 a.m. on March 15 and leaving five hours later.

Pessanha said the cameras also filmed Clifford giving money to two Brazilian men who allegedly arranged the encounter. They were arrested on Wednesday and face similar charges.
Police are still investigating whether a larger sex ring could be involved, the inspector said.

Pessanha said the suspect traveled to Brazil frequently to escort deported illegal immigrants here.
Police, U.S. consular officials and Interpol and FBI agents will meet on Thursday "to discuss how to get Clifford back to Brazil to stand trial," he said."

That's a highly polished video DPCA, (Delegacia de Proteção à Criança e ao Adolescente,) produced. It's titled: Operation: Sand Castle. (Love the background music.)
In the video:
Clifford stiffed Ivan and Jose for arranging his tryst with the 12 year old. Ivan goes to the Hotel, (Looks like the JW Marriott to me,) and eventually meets Clifford in the lobby. Clifford fails to return with the money.
Later Ivan and Jose return to the Hotel in an attempt to get their money from Clifford. Security over there is tight because they never make it to Clifford's room. They eventually confess to security why they're looking for Clifford. Security still doesn't let them contact Clifford. They promise security they will not return to the hotel.
The next day Jose and the 12yr old return and make it to the 8th floor before security stops them. The 12yr old tells security he had sex with Clifford, who also took nude photos of him! All this captured on the hotels security cameras!!
BTW, they got some beefy, burly security guys at that hotel.

Oglobo reporting that Ivan had an arrest warrant from Bahia for drug dealing and robbery.
Delegacia de Proteção à Criança e ao Adolescente = Police Division of Protection of Infant and Adolescent

RonnyRon

04-11-08, 02:23

Here is the video from the hotels. Hope they all rot in jail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VdNtaLpQAs

Brazil Specialist

04-27-08, 04:13

City of God is not a favela in the true original definition of such. It is not built on a hillside with squatters.

Who gave you the idea that favelas have to be on hill sides?

The worst favelas in Rio are the complexo do Alemao, on the from airport via linea Vermelha highway to downtown.

It is all flat there.

From all i know, the cidade de deus is a favela. Maybe there are a few legitimate buildings there. Jacarepagua is legal, and most chicks that live in cidade de deus will tell you they live in Jacarepagua

Rio Bob

04-27-08, 23:37

This is an article about those Policia Militars who tried to extort money from American police men who left Help and look like they were going to Ipanema by taxi. The Brazilian cops got over 8 years in jail for this.

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2008/04/25/condenados_pms_que_achacaram_dois_americanos-427078422.asp

Mr Enternational

04-30-08, 03:58

Who gave you the idea that favelas have to be on hill sides?

The worst favelas in Rio are the complexo do Alemao, on the from airport via linea Vermelha highway to downtown.

It is all flat there.

From all i know, the cidade de deus is a favela. Maybe there are a few legitimate buildings there. Jacarepagua is legal, and most chicks that live in cidade de deus will tell you they live in Jacarepagua

Didn't say favelas HAVE to be built on hillsides. I said originally they were, hence the word 'favela' which comes from the first place that was settled as such. The name of the hill was Morro da Favela in Rio. The actual word favela is the name of a type of weed that grows on such hillsides.

Also City of God looks nothing like the makeshift shantys that you will see in Alemao.

Brazil Specialist

05-31-08, 10:14

Former Top Police Chief of Rio arrested for racketeering, money laundering, corruption etc. Ex-governor among the accused.

Former Rio top police chief Alvaro Lins arrested by Federal police on racketeering charges. He instituted a system of protection and cover to gambling lords. District police chiefs had to pay R$ 25 000 monthly fees to him and his compaign.

Now you understand why police have to extort you to get money to cover their expenses?

The house he lived in was registered in the name of a deceased relative to hide the use of illicit money.

Federal police includes former governer and husband of today's Rio governor (and actually behind the scenes still governor) or Rio de Janeiro in the roll of the accused.

Alvaro Lins now is a city coucil and actually has immunity. So the city council quickly voted to force police to set him free.

http://odia.terra.com.br/rio/htm/uma_delegacia_de_r_50_mil_174871.asp
http://odia.terra.com.br/rio/htm/alerj_decide_soltar_alvaro_lins_174868.asp
http://odia.terra.com.br/rio/htm/orientacoes_para_esconder_o_patrimonio_174870.asp

Another city council said, no wonder they voted to set him free. 40% of city councilmen are involved in gambling rackets, killing commands, extortion, drug dealings and militias.

A pedetista criou constrangimento ao dizer que a Alerj não tinha legitimidade para manter Lins preso, porque “40% da Casa são envolvidos com a marginalidade, o tráfico, grupos de extermínio, extorsão e milícias”. “Estão votando em causa própria”, disse Cidinha, sobre os favoráveis à revogação da prisão.

Piper1

06-23-08, 08:37

They were nice enough to give him a few things back once he told them who he was.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1319797,00.html?f=rss

CBGBConnisur

06-27-08, 17:44

Brazilian cities are supposed to be dangerous but compared to other places in the world is it really that bad? How would Rio or Sao Paulo compare to Moscow for example?

Off Road

06-28-08, 02:06

Brazilian cities are supposed to be dangerous but compared to other places in the world is it really that bad? How would Rio or Sao Paulo compare to Moscow for example?My impression of Rio and Sao Paulo are.. Rio, the places you would go are probably touristy and those places are subject to petty crime (pickpockets, theft, robbery without a gun).
Sao Paulo, more kidnappings (brazillians mostly), more carjackings or stolen cars, more violent, but not many tourists there. This is not based on statistics, but just my observations over the years.
Never been to Moscow. I was pickpocketed in Madrid subway.

Java Man

06-29-08, 19:34

Not that is really applies to visiting mongers, but Brazil started DUI enforcement last week.
From reports I've read in Oglobo, they have a zero tolerance, that is no blood alcohol concentration while driving! The PM's in Rio are using a portable breath test, have stopped 74 vehicle and have arrested 7. Why such low numbers for a large city? They only have a few portable breath test units.

Allover

07-01-08, 04:51

Brazilian cities are supposed to be dangerous but compared to other places in the world is it really that bad? How would Rio or Sao Paulo compare to Moscow for example?

Yes I believe they are worse. Look at ISG for proof. How many cities have a special section dedicated to crime? Rio is the only one. I enjoyed my last visit but witnessed two attempted purse snatchings both in Copa. Granted they weren't violent crimes but it still is a little unsettling. I always went directly from the ATM to the hotel safe with no stops in between. I don't do that in most other places. The crime situation in Rio will probably keep me from going back.

Brazil Specialist

07-01-08, 08:59

From reports I've read in Oglobo, they have a zero tolerance, that is no blood alcohol concentration while driving! The PM's in Rio are using a portable breath test, have stopped 74 vehicle and have arrested 7. Why such low numbers for a large city? They only have a few portable breath test units.

I remember having heard such rumors. Let me know if you have some newspaper quote or other publication about this.

On the other hand I know for a fact that if someone is [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) drunk, runs over 3 people, killing them, he still has the legal right to refuse an alcohol test. So he is set free (happened recently).

So I guess police only catches people who are not informed about their legal rights.

Let me know if you know otherwise

Perkele

07-01-08, 12:10

Brazil Specialist

07-01-08, 17:13

i remember having heard such rumors. let me know if you have some newspaper quote or other publication about this.

on the other hand i know for a fact that if someone is [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) drunk, runs over 3 people, killing them, he still has the legal right to refuse an alcohol test. so he is set free (happened recently).

so i guess police only catches people who are not informed about their legal rights.

let me know if you know otherwise

ok, i stand corrected. i have been out of brazil for 2 weeks, exactly the duration of the new law

http://odia.terra.com.br/rio/htm/contran_vai_confirmar_margem_de_erro_para_bafometro_conforme_determinacao_do_inmetro_182074.asp

http://odia.terra.com.br/rio/htm/taxistas_comemoram_nova_lei_182075.asp
taxi drivers celebrate increased business due to the law

seems under 0.03% blood alcohol content you get a r$ 900 fine, over that it is arrest and jail

let us see if the law stands firm. would not be the first time a law being watered down by courts or by government leniency

it is high time. i used to bicycle to the club's pool at 6 am in the morning. on friday, saturday and sunday, at this time there were only drunks on the street.

i witnessed 2 accidents of cars invading the atlantica or vieira souto bike lane at high speed during this time. a third was a low speed drive on the bike lane. i gave up going on the street at that time for fear of my life

and every weekend there is a news report of at least one terrible accident with a few dead in copacabana or ipanema. sort of someone running a light at 60 miles per hour and hitting a unsuspecting car. often the culprit is a rich spoiled kid that drives a very heavy armored car that scarcely gets dented while th other car gets maimed

http://g1.globo.com/noticias/saopaulo/0,,mul631561-5605,00-policia+e+justica+discutem+procedimento+padrao+para+punicoes+da+lei+seca.html

segundo a nova lei 11.705, do dia 20 deste mês, que altera o código de trânsito brasileiro, o consumo de qualquer quantidade de bebida alcoólica por condutores de veículos está proibido. antes, era permitida a ingestão de até 6 decigramas de álcool por litro de sangue (o equivalente a dois copos de cerveja).

quem for pego dirigindo depois de beber, ***á de pagar multa de r$ 955 e perderá o direito de dirigir por um ano. quem estiver com mais de 0,3 mg de álcool, além de pagar a multa, corre o risco de responder por crime, com pena que varia de 6 meses a 3 anos. o motorista só poderá responder em liberdade após pagar uma fiança que varia de r$ 300 a r$ 1.200. o valor exato é decidido pelo delegado.

CBGBConnisur

07-01-08, 17:26

Brazil Specialist

07-01-08, 17:33

http://www.brazzil.com/articles/193-june-2008/10072-in-brazil-rule-of-law-is-for-the-birds.html
very very true.

Very good explanations

Read the comments below the article too

Off Road

07-02-08, 01:18

Well I have heard stories about Brazilian police being just as bad as criminals, there was some story about cops in Rio shaking down foreigners who were engaging in p4p. Really though is it that much worse than any other part of South America? I have been to Mexico and Colombia in the past.You seem very preoccupied with stories about crime here. There are lots of stories, sure there are cops that will take advantage of tourists, but mostly those that are acting poorly. I know a lot of guys here and none have had a problem, but they behave and pick more quality girls or stick to Termas. If you have been to Mexico City, you are in about the same environment here. Several of us who post here, live here and do not have problems, but we do not act poorly (get drunk and argue with girls or argue with locals, etc). Come on down, have fun, relax, laugh, let us know when you will be here, have a beer with us and enjoy, there is nothing like Rio!

Rio Bob

07-02-08, 17:33

Its now 2 weeks since it has been prohibited to drink and drive.

More than 300 has been arrested, more than 200 fined. Several vehicles apprehended.

Accepted alcohol level 0!

They stop mainly during weekend nights, but now its allowed to do breath analyser test at any time.

This came on the Oglobo news yesterday.

New law reduces alcohol consumption by 25% in Rio's pubs

www.chinaview.cn 2008-07-02 09:36:44 Print

RIO DE JANEIRO, July 1 (Xinhua) -- A new law that forbids drivers from consuming any alcohol in Brazil has already caused a reduction of about 25 percent in alcoholic beverage sales in pubs and restaurants of Rio de Janeiro, local media reported Tuesday.

According to the Hotels, Pubs and Restaurants Association of Rio (SindRio), the amount of alcoholic beverages sold has been falling since the law became effective on June 19, and an even bigger reduction is expected in the coming weeks.

In spite of the losses, SindRio said it supports the new regulation.

Seven drunk drivers were arrested in Rio in the first ten days since the new rule came into effect, while the figure for the whole country was 296. Am additional 665 drivers have been fined.

The dry law stipulates the suspension of driving license for a year and a fine of 955 reais (597 U.S. dollars) for a driver caught with any amount of alcohol in the blood. If the amount of alcohol exceeds 6 ml per liter of blood, the driver is arrested.

However, many consider the new law as being too harsh.

The Order of Attorneys of Brazil (OAB), a local version of the Bar Association, says the new law is unconstitutional, as it foresees that a driver who refuses to submit to the breath-analyzer test will receive the same punishment as a drunk driver.

According to Brazilian law, no one can be forced to produce evidence against oneself.

The street police believe that the fines and arrests will scared rivers into staying sober and reduce accidents caused by drunken driving.

Java Man

07-02-08, 18:17

Wow!! I tough new law thats being enforced. Let's see how long it will last before some judge waters it down.

Carlos Primeros

07-02-08, 19:56

it is true - no drinking and driving.

fines: 955 reais, up to 3 years jail. also vehicle confirep001ed.

what do you think will happen???? the police will have one more lever to skin you.

the result will be> 1000 reais propinho

Rio Bob

07-02-08, 22:19

Wow!! I tough new law thats being enforced. Let's see how long it will last before some judge waters it down.

Yes this is a very tough law. At least in the US the BAC is .08. So a good size man can consume lets say 3 drinks and be at .08. If he gains 20 pounds then he can consume 4 drinks. Luckily I have been putting on some weight lately for protection. Fortunately I never drive in Brazil.

Java Man

07-03-08, 06:49

http://www.brazzil.com/articles/193-june-2008/10072-in-brazil-rule-of-law-is-for-the-birds.html

Here's the gist of the article:
"In Brazil, social status is far more important than any protection of the law, because laws are generally perceived as not being necessarily applied to everyone.
Respecting the law in this country implies a condition of social inferiority and disadvantage that renders one subject to it.
A Brazilian with "good" friends can obtain any "special" treatment from the state and other institutions of prestige.
A Brazilian would appeal to his or her social status to protect him-or-herself against any situation.
Many people in Brazil often consider themselves above the law.
A familiar Brazilian maxim: "Para os amigos tudo, para os indiferentes nada, e para os inimigos a lei" (For my friends, everything; for strangers, nothing; for my enemies - the law!)."

Basically, it's who you know, not what you know in Brazil. There is NO Rule of Law, it's applied subjectively. Just something to keep in mind, when one travels to Brazil.

Pelicano

07-03-08, 14:25

A PM on bodyguard detail for the son of a D.A., shoots an 18 year old outside the Boate Baronetti in Ipanema. Fight started over someones girlfriend.

http://revistaepoca.globo.com/Revista/Epoca/0,,EMI7119-15254,00-
LEGITIMO+ATAQUE.html

Mr Enternational

07-03-08, 19:36

I managed to drop by Cidade de Deus and take some pictures yesterday afternoon.

WhoIsIt

07-04-08, 17:18

http://www.brazzil.com/articles/193-june-2008/10072-in-brazil-rule-of-law-is-for-the-birds.html

Here's the gist of the article:

"In Brazil, social status is far more important than any protection of the law, because laws are generally perceived as not being necessarily applied to everyone.
Respecting the law in this country implies a condition of social inferiority and disadvantage that renders one subject to it.

A Brazilian with "good" friends can obtain any "special" treatment from the state and other institutions of prestige.

A Brazilian would appeal to his or her social status to protect him-or-herself against any situation.

Many people in Brazil often consider themselves above the law.

A familiar Brazilian maxim: "Para os amigos tudo, para os indiferentes nada, e para os inimigos a lei" (For my friends, everything; for strangers, nothing; for my enemies - the law!)."

Basically, it's who you know, not what you know in Brazil. There is NO Rule of Law, it's applied subjectively. Just something to keep in mind, when one travels to Brazil.And this is different from the US (or any other country for that matter) how?

Americanos are basically brainwashed to think that the law is "objectively" applied in the US, but anyone older than 9 should be able to see that this isn't the case.

Brazil Specialist

07-05-08, 06:10

and this is different from the us (or any other country for that matter) how?

americanos are basically brainwashed to think that the law is "objectively" applied in the us, but anyone older than 9 should be able to see that this isn't the case.

there seem to be a few fishy issues in the us, like halliburton's dealings, microsoft escapint antitrust proceedings, or the o.j. simpson issue.

nothing compares to brazil, though. ultimately a few arrests have been made, some maior government embezzlers were jailed for a few days (like the judge who robbed 160 million dollars during construction of a court building). but the daughter of the president being arrested for **** drinking, or paris hilton serving jail time for driving under the influence of alcohol, such things are totally unthinkable in brazil.

a friend of mine was caught smoking pot wihle driving his car. it so happens that one of his clients was a government minister. he dropped the guys name, reacted quite aggressively towards the policeman, and picked up his cell phone to call the minister. immediately the policeman asked for forgiveness and let him go.

a policeman who would arrest or fine someone with high ranking protection would at least get a severe reprimand from his boss. more likely, he would be transferred to some outpost at the amazon, or sent onto a suicide mission. or he would be unjustly accused of some wrongdoing and removed from the service.

occasionally federal police arrest some big shots, but usually they are released by judges within a few days.

so while some fishy issues might exist in the us, in brazil it is at least hundredfold.

Java Man

07-05-08, 09:27

Americanos?! Sounds like an Anti-American slant. Where you from Homey? LOL
For those unclear of the concept, The Rule of Law, in its most basic form, is the principle that no one is above the law. Brazilians believe they are ABOVE the law. I think that makes them unique in this world.

That Article was written by Dr. Augusto Zimmermann, LLB, LLM, PhD, a Law Lecturer at Murdoch University, Western Australia.
He's BRAZILIAN and an internationally known legal scholar who holds a Ph.D. from Monash University (Australia) and a LL.M. with ‘cum laude’ from the Pontifical Catholic University of Rio de Janeiro (PUC-Rio). The topic of his doctoral research was the failure of the legal ideal known as the Rule of Law to properly take hold in Brazil.

BTW, that tough zero tolerance DUI law recently passed, the Feds looking to weaken it. (They passed it.)

Jan 156

07-05-08, 12:19

For what it's worth, my feeling on this matter is that the constructive point is made by looking at decent people's attitude to the law (and the police of course). I mean Brasil. If we compare it to America there are too many issues and I personally suspect that the point gets lost among many other interesting issues.

You can have a strong moral ethic that is independent of the law. People behave 'decently', not because they are compelled to but because that is how they want to live their lives. This is perhaps even more important in Brasil as the rule of law is often seen as weak.

That moral and social force is underpinned in most Western countries by respect for the rule of law. This is to a great extent because the law is seen as 'fair' by the average citizen or, even when it is viewed as unfair, the democratic process by which is reached is believed to be fair. Strength of implementation is another factor, but most people (such as you and I and the large proportion of Brasilian people) don't as a rule commit crimes simply because we don't want to live our lives robbing and mugging people, more than because we fear getting caught.

The legal and policing infrastructures in Brasil, on the other hand, are quite weak compared to most first world countries. Respect for the rule of law doesn't carry the same weight. Not because people are bad (and some people inarguably are and use the weakness of the system to flout it). But because people look first and foremost to other standards to find their moral bearings.

Apart from the obvious disadvantages, this can even have its advantages in that people learn to be more sensitive to each other and establishing each other's moral compass and a degree of trust that is based on personal or community mores rather than enforced and enforceable law.

I hope I haven't bored you too much with this. It is one of the aspects of Brasilian culture that fascinates and attracts me, and one that I feel I learn from (as a human being, not as a legal scholar).

Jan 156

07-05-08, 12:33

p.s. another interesting article on that website is the government's guide to being a prostitute ;-)http://www.brazzil.com/component/content/article/169-july-2006/9649.html

Ryjerrob

07-05-08, 14:35

p.s. another interesting article on that website is the government's guide to being a prostitute ;-)http://www.brazzil.com/component/content/article/169-july-2006/9649.html

This is hilarious. I can't believe that they reduced this to writing. After reading this in its' entirety, I see now that the government of Brasil styled their guide after the book by internationally know author, Velvet Jones. The book, "I Wanna Be A Ho."

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=22112918

Also, check out the Velvet Jones School of Technology.

ryjer

Brazil Specialist

07-06-08, 06:50

http://odia.terra.com.br/rio/htm/governo_ja_estuda_mudanca_na_lei_seca_182941.asp

Summary:
Drivers are not obliged to perform alcohol test.

People in Brazil have the constitutional right not to incriminate themselves. Hence they cannot be forced to do an acolhol test.

So if no accident happened, police cannot arrest anyone as they cannot prove their blood alcohol is high enough to warrant an arrest or a prison term. Only uninformed people will allow an alcohol test that can incriminate themselves.

So far it is assumed that police can presume they have a low (0.03%) blood alcohol content and thus are subject to the R$ 900 fine and suspension of their driver's license.

It still is an improvement, because in the past one could run over 5 people and kill them and refuse an acohol test and go free.

Brazil Specialist

07-06-08, 07:45

http://odia.terra.com.br/brasil/htm/camaras_contaminadas_183283.asp

Many politicians have criminal records. In Rio de Janeiro city, it is almost half the members of city hall that have criminal convictions or investigations against them.

Jan 156

07-19-08, 21:40

Background report on violence and politics in today's Economist newsaper for those who are interested in reading about such things. (I find it interesting, but object slightly to the stereotyping)

"How Rio’s first good governor in decades is starting to renew Brazil’s most famous city"
http://www.economist.com/world/la/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11750451

Sunset

08-21-08, 15:00

21/08/2008 01:46:00

[Non-English text deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was edited to remove text not in English. While I encourage contributions from all members, the Forum is an English-only website. Please do not post reports in any language other than English unless accompanied by a full English translation.Thanks!

Brazil Rio

08-25-08, 13:31

Rio Bob

08-27-08, 17:27

Please, don't you guys believe in all the things that you see in the media about violence in Rio. Of course Rio has violence facts, as any other big city in the whole world! But it is not like the media says.

I live here in Rio for most of my life, and I never had problems with safety. Avoid some places and times, don't you seems like an "Ad": "I'm a gringo with money", and you will be ok.

Any advice, I am here.

Brazil Rio

Be careful on the beach too, don't bring any valuables with you except your bathing suit. Attached is a video that someone actually caught a robbery going on on the beach, cuidado.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=ZbjPCnY89RA

Bubba Boy

08-27-08, 18:42

That clip was just fantastic - outstanding!!!

Bimbo Boy

08-31-08, 21:19

Hello fellow mongers.
I am looking for crime statistics in Rio, broken down by districts.
Do you know where i could find them ?
Kind regards.
BB.

El Austriaco

08-31-08, 22:56

Here you go:

http://www.isp.rj.gov.br/Conteudo.asp?ident=58

Click on the month you want to display. The latest statistics that are available so far are for May 2008.

Very detailed by types of crimes, but not exactly easy to ready (it's organized by Police Departments and AISPs rather than districts or even Zona Sul vs. Zona Norte; though at the bottom, you can figure out what areas are covered by what PD), there are no statistics covering several months or years and, needless to say, everyhing is just in Portuguese. Still, should give you an idea.

BTW, Leme and Copacabana are AISP (ÁREA INTEGRADA DE SEGURANÇA PÚBLICA = Integrated Public Security Area) No. 19; Leblon, Lagoa, Ipanema, São Conrado, Gávea, Vidigal, Rocinha and Jardim Botânico are AISP No. 23, Glória, Catete, Laranjeiras, Flamengo, Cosme Velho, Humaitá, Botafogo, and Urca are AISP No. 2, which should pretty much cover all of Zona Sul. For reference, Centro is AISP No. 13. Compare that to, say, São João de Meriti or São Gonçalo just in terms of homicides alone, and the differences are striking.

Hope this helps,

EA

Bimbo Boy

09-01-08, 00:54

El Austriaco : thanks a lot !
It seems that there is not a lot of difference depending on the district ones lives in the center of town. However the crime rate seems to go up sharply in the suburbs (2 to 3 times more crime in Nova Iguaçu than in Copacabana for example).
Regards.
B.B.

Here you go:

http://www.isp.rj.gov.br/Conteudo.asp?ident=58

Click on the month you want to display. The latest statistics that are available so far are for May 2008.

Very detailed by types of crimes, but not exactly easy to ready (it's organized by Police Departments and AISPs rather than districts or even Zona Sul vs. Zona Norte; though at the bottom, you can figure out what areas are covered by what PD), there are no statistics covering several months or years and, needless to say, everyhing is just in Portuguese. Still, should give you an idea.

BTW, Leme and Copacabana are AISP (ÁREA INTEGRADA DE SEGURANÇA PÚBLICA = Integrated Public Security Area) No. 19; Leblon, Lagoa, Ipanema, São Conrado, Gávea, Vidigal, Rocinha and Jardim Botânico are AISP No. 23, Glória, Catete, Laranjeiras, Flamengo, Cosme Velho, Humaitá, Botafogo, and Urca are AISP No. 2, which should pretty much cover all of Zona Sul. For reference, Centro is AISP No. 13. Compare that to, say, São João de Meriti or São Gonçalo just in terms of homicides alone, and the differences are striking.

Hope this helps,

EA

Bubba Boy

09-01-08, 01:00

The statistics are way, way under what the true rate is. I believe the Government only uses reported crimes. Who the hell would bother to report crimes out in Nova Iguaçu, the crimes were probably committed by the police themselves.

Poucolouco

09-01-08, 01:31

Bimbo Boy

09-01-08, 04:00

Bubba, don't be so negative. There is a whole bunch of good people in Brazil that are trying their best in order to fight corruption and crime. A friend of my Rio girlfriend was a judge who tried to indict a football club owner. He was found dead in a car accident, the car with half a dozen empty vodka bottles ... suspicious as this guy never drank anything alcooholic.
BB.

The statistics are way, way under what the true rate is. I believe the Government only uses reported crimes. Who the hell would bother to report crimes out in Nova Iguaçu, the crimes were probably committed by the police themselves.

Bubba Boy

09-01-08, 04:36

There is good people in Brazil, the majority actually. I am not having a dig at them. However the realty is crime is way worse than reported and the largest criminal gang in Rio is the Police themselves.

I have spent a lot of time out at Nova Iguaçu. The Police run the place. Nothing gets by without them knowing. They control the drugs, administer their own justice and of course do not hesitate to kill people. That is just the way it is.

There was an interesting fact in the paper maybe 2 weekends ago. Half the servicing officials in Local and State government, have either criminal records or under official investigation. That figure again 50%!!!.

Now, you can say "don't be so negative" etc, but I am not reporting this subjectively. From an objective point of view, it is just the way it is. Any body that says is not, is just not being realistic.

You point below just proves my point.

El Austriaco

09-01-08, 06:36

While I am sure that there is a certain degree of "underreporting of crime", the extent of it is entirely speculative without any hard data, so in the very end, we still got nothing but the published/reported data to go by. So I agree with Poucolouco: this is not specific to Brazil; no government publishes statistics based on unsubstantiated, i.e. unreported crimes. How could they?

Also, while I can think of good reasons for underreporting, I can also think about reasons for overreporting and blowing crime out of proportion (pressure for police budget increases, more opportunities to misappropriate and skim off the top). Soooooo....

Also, in the absence of any good reason to believe that crime should be more underreported in some areas than in others, the official data at least show the relative spatial distribution of crime to a somewhat accurate degree. And I think that's what Bimbo Boy was mostly interested in, to seem how some areas compare to others.

Also, I do believe that some types of crime tend to be more than underreported by the victims than others, again for a variety of reasons (sex crimes for fear of stigmatization of the victim; property crimes like burglaries, for example, because of an attitude that the police won't do anything, anyway), yes. But I somehow don't believe that the one major category that got Rio a bad reputation in the first place, homicides, would be one of them. Can't really imagine how deaths from non-natural causes wouldn't get reported for one reason or another. Even if the police wanted to cover up some of their own misdeeds, they could just classify them as unresolved deaths, drug war-related deaths, or traffic accidents, or suicides or whatever, but they couldn't just make them disappear all that easily. So, I guess they would find their way into the statistics in one way or another, although maybe misclassified, sure.

So, yes, the statistics might not be fully accurate and entirely reliable, but then again, neither would be those for any other country or city in the world. And strangely enough, the fact that all those statistics share the same kind of uncertainty sort of makes them almost comparable again :)

In any case, a while ago (last year), I posted a list on the nastier areas of Rio based on newspaper reports culled from Riobodycount.com, a website that unfortunately no longer exists. If someone wants to compare some of the areas I reported there, they still don't seem to fare too well based on the police report-based statistics, either... which doesn't surprise me, though, because how could the media get wind of them in the first place if no information is forthcoming from the crime beat?

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=604974&postcount=684

My two centavos,

EA

Bimbo Boy

09-01-08, 18:59

Bubba,
My statement is just for the discussion. No offense intended. I have a lot of respect for you guys, active and serious contributors to this forum. Your knowledge is invaluable.
Many thanks and cheers.
BB.

Now, you can say "don't be so negative" etc, but I am not reporting this subjectively. From an objective point of view, it is just the way it is. Any body that says is not, is just not being realistic.
You point below just proves my point.

Bubba Boy

09-01-08, 19:57

I didn't take any offense from you post. I was, as you said, just discussing.

Bimbo Boy

09-02-08, 14:46

Dear bubba Boy,

I sent your comments to a lawyer friend in Nova Iguaçu, and this is what he answered :
"Unhappily what your friend says is the truth, the peripheral regions of Rio are very dangerous. We have more fear of the police than of the thieves.
However, politics gets in the way, for example, in the district where I live, many influential politicians and entrepreneurs also live, who in turn control the traffic of drugs.
My district is quiet, because it has a hidden control, and the police only acts when they allow it.
The crime statistics in Rio are distorded because the police abandons the cadavers of the gang members that were killed in the Zona Sul out of it, in the peripheral districts, in order not to scare the foreign tourists."

Rregards.
BB.

... I have spent a lot of time out at Nova Iguaçu. The Police run the place. Nothing gets by without them knowing. They control the drugs, administer their own justice and of course do not hesitate to kill people. That is just the way it is.

Bubba Boy

09-02-08, 16:03

The email below pretty much sums up how Baixada Fluminense is. I was surprised he was so candid in his email. Normally the local people only open up like that after you know them quite well.

Bubba Boy

09-02-08, 16:07

I spent virtually every weekend out at Baixada Fluminense, which is the area past zona norte and includes Nova Iguaçu, for about a year. My girlfriend would go and catch up with all her family and I would hang with her brothers and the local guys. We would play a little football, make a BBQ and of course drink a couple of skols. The “news” these guys had was incredible to me. There was always a new story of a friend of a friend being severely beaten or even killed. The way these guys told these stories was very “matter of fact”, someone being killed in “the low lands” is not a big deal, very common.

After about a year of me going there, one of the immediate family members that I spoke to every weekend, was killed. He lived about 3 houses up from the house that I used to visit. He ran a local business and was probably one of the wealthiest guys that I knew there. He was wealthy enough to own a brand new R$ 25,000 car, that is a big deal out there. Anyway, one night his business partners came around to his house, held him down and hacked off both arms, then both legs, then poured gasoline on him and set him on fire. No one was ever prosecuted for this, apparently it was given the ok by the police, hence that was that. After this I cut down my visiting, when I went I would just go for a few a hours and head back to zona sul before the sun went down. In this area there is no real court to sort out issues, it is just decided by the local police. They run the place.

Baixada Fluminense is not a small area, has about 3 million people. It is very poor, way poorer than Zona Norte.

To show what does happen in these poorer areas in Brazil do a “you tube” search for 1) “ladrao cortado” (the guys has been hacked up badly, he has completely lost 1 hand) or 2) “Ladrão apanha em Belem” (the guy is lynched and killed). Do not watch there videos if you are at all squeamish. Both are extremely graphic and the second video actually shows a thief getting beaten to death. I did not post a direct link to the videos, hence if you want to see them you need to at least search for them.

Sperto

09-02-08, 17:14

to show what does happen in these poorer areas in brazil do a “you tube” search for 1) “ladrao cortado” (the guys has been hacked up badly, he has completely lost 1 hand) or 2) “ladrão apanha em belem” (the guy is lynched and killed).
two comments about the videos.
1. first video:
barbacena, pará. the guy is a burglar who entered a house trying to steal and [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) a pregnant woman. her husband used a facão (like a machete knife) for defence.
2. second video:
belém, pará. the thief had stolen a girl's mobile phone and run away. her boyfriend caught the thief. the locals finish him of. hum... justice?

p.s don't watch the first video if you're having churrasco for dinner.

Bubba Boy

09-02-08, 17:57

Yes I know exactly what those guys did, my point was to illustrate the violence that occurs within Brazilian society in the poorer areas on a more or less continual basis and the way that it is administered.

There are a ton of other videos on youtube about Brazil. One that comes to mind shows a Policeman dragging some guy behind a Kombi and shooting him. Meanwhile there are literally hundreds of onlookers. Now that is brazen.

Perkele

09-02-08, 17:59

In Brasil you may defend yourself by whatever means possible, when you are in your property. So if someone enters to my house without an invitation I can even kill the bastard.

Doesn't matter if he's armed or not, you can always say that you thought that he had.

Balluba

09-02-08, 18:09

2. Second video:
Belém, Pará. The thief had stolen a girl's mobile phone and run away. Her boyfriend caught the thief. The locals finish him of. Hum... justice?

Holy sh*t, I didt know that this sort of videos was availlable on Youtube. Me being naive, I guess.

Strange this policy of Youtube. They cencor a pair of harmless and beautiful tits, but allow any kid to see a man beaten to death, a criminal or not. Does not make any sence at all.

Bimbo Boy

09-02-08, 18:38

Well, I have been dating a local girl for about a year, and I am sort of part of the family, just like you were. E também, falo portugues ...
Everyday I learn more, and it is everytime amazing these layers of crime and corruption that one discovers little by little ... but I have hope for Brasil, it is going in the right direction, but it may take decades.
BB

The email below pretty much sums up how Baixada Fluminense is. I was surprised he was so candid in his email. Normally the local people only open up like that after you know them quite well.

SlimHoleDrill

09-02-08, 18:49

two comments about the videos.
1. first video:
barbacena, pará. the guy is a burglar who entered a house trying to steal and [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) a pregnant woman. her husband used a facão (like a machete knife) for defence.

there is something strange about that first one: not much blood for the wounds he has. so either he has bled out somewhere else or something is not quite right. you would see the place drenched in blood. i'm not saying it is necessarily fake, just that everything does not add up. if he had really bled out, i wouldn't expect him still to be conscious and talking, but, hey, i am not an expert in this. thankfully.

now the second one, yikes, that is mob justice for sure. hundreds of people standing around, watching.

my two cents, since the infamous big cleanup they had where the police took out some of the kids in the gangs that were wrecking the tourist business and making life pretty miserable for the more well to do, it is much safer in zona sul. not that you can let your guard down, but it is not as bad as it used to be. maybe i am just older and wiser...

just my perspective.

Balluba

09-02-08, 18:50

Dear Bubba Boy,
.....................................................
Rregards.
BB.

Hehe, its kind of sweet when Mr. Bimbo Boy talks with Mr. Bubba Boy :-)))

Java Man

09-03-08, 05:03

....I have hope for Brasil, it is going in the right direction, but it may take decades.
BB

Not in our lifetime.
Vigilante justice occurs when the populace feels there is NO real justice.

Exec Talent

09-12-08, 14:14

I have heard several times recently from guys who think they were drugged. What has happened is that they had a girl come over and later they became ill - vomiting and/or diarrhea. They originally thought it might be food poisoning. Has anyone, with recent firsthand knowledge (no guys who heard about this five years ago please), had this experience? Does anyone with a medical background or knowledge know what might have been used? I have heard of Ipecac; but can it be given to someone undetected?

Breast Is Best

09-12-08, 15:40

two comments about the videos.

1. first video:

barbacena, pará. the guy is a burglar who entered a house trying to steal and [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) a pregnant woman. her husband used a facão (like a machete knife) for defence.

2. second video:

belém, pará. the thief had stolen a girl's mobile phone and run away. her boyfriend caught the thief. the locals finish him of. hum... justice?

p.s don't watch the first video if you're having churrasco for dinner.'justice' indeed sperto..thats some mediaeval shit going off right there in the belem video.

last week in leblon i was at dinner with a native carioca guy who i do business with and his comment was that the thing with rio and this applies to pretty much everything, is that there's a lot of good things that happen which anyone in the world would recognise as 'good' on a more or less comparable scale but when anything bad happens in rio, regardless of what it is, it tends to be 10 or 20 standard deviations from the mean..

so you're fine...until something bad happens..and then it can get much worse, much quicker than anywhere else in the world.

Bubba Boy

09-14-08, 18:01

Policial executa assaltante no RJ ao lado do shopping Rio (you tube)

This is an example of why you should not have anything to do with the Police in Brazil. They essentially act as judge, jury and executioner.

Sperto

09-14-08, 19:02

Policial executa assaltante no RJ ao lado do shopping Rio (you tube)
This is an example of why you should not have anything to do with the Police in Brazil. They essentially act as judge, jury and executioner.
This one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfzdfnXMhXQ

Bubba Boy

09-14-08, 19:14

This one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfzdfnXMhXQ

Yeah this one. For those that don't have a youtube sign in. The Police, even though they were in a busy public place, just drag some dude behind their car and put a few bullets in him.

Perkele

09-14-08, 20:12

Its very unlikely that a foreigner gets executed like this, but I agree that there is no trusting police in Rio.

Also if there is shootout its best to seek cover because one may get hit by bullet from anyone, even police. They don't care who is around and just return fire.

I just read the comments of the video, and majority of portuguese language comments were for killing the bandidos.

Java Man

09-14-08, 23:44

Not surprising that this happened. Surprising that it was caught on tape. If there is a public outcry, the cops maybe in trouble.
A few weeks back, or longer, the military in control of a favela turned over 3 guys to the local drug gang. Those 3 guys turned up dead. There was a public outcry, military guys got in trouble. Public hearings, the whole bit. Not sure what the outcome was.

These things happen because the Brazilian Criminal Justice System is fucked up. Criminals caught go unpunished. What crimes are investigated, result in few convictions. Corruption is rampant at all levels. All because Brazilians believe they are above the Law. Even the Judges don't follow the Law, they make it up as they go along.

Don't bring your First World attitude, that the Law will protect you, to Brazil. It don't work that way there. Oh, and be wary of juveniles, as they can get away with murder.

Bubba Boy

09-15-08, 02:41

As foreigners it would be unlikely to be executed like that, you would be much more valuable to the Police alive so they can extort cash.

On that subject, most foreigners have a naive view that they can simply buy their way out with a few hundred $'s if they get into trouble. If the Police think you have cash, they may well try and extort every cent you have. Basically a lot of them are just criminals, don't give a shit about the law.

Perkele

09-15-08, 11:55

These things happen because the Brazilian Criminal Justice System is fucked up. Criminals caught go unpunished. What crimes are investigated, result in few convictions. Corruption is rampant at all levels. All because Brazilians believe they are above the Law. Even the Judges don't follow the Law, they make it up as they go along.

Don't bring your First World attitude, that the Law will protect you, to Brazil. It don't work that way there. Oh, and be wary of juveniles, as they can get away with murder.

I happen to have first hand experience about brasilian law. The system is mixed in a way that there are some laws and so called english legal system. Basically you have that in USA.

The most fucked up is that the judges can rule what ever they feel like. It doesn't matter what law actually says, because it all depends on the judge.
Thus if you can buy the judge, you're home free.

JohnnyBraz

09-18-08, 10:52

20% of the 48,000 Brazilians Murdered Every Year Are Killed by the Police

Written by Newsroom

Tuesday, 16 September 2008
The police of Brazil are responsible for a significant proportion of the 48,000 murders committed every year in the country, a United Nations human rights expert said Monday, September 15, in a report heavily criticizing law enforcement in the South American country.

The report finds that on-duty police routinely resort to deadly violence and that a large number of off-duty police take part in death squads and other forms of organized crimes.

"In Rio de Janeiro, the police kill three people everyday," said Philip Alston, the UN Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions.

"They are responsible for one out of every five killings," Mr. Alston added in a press statement announcing his report of a fact-finding mission last year in Brazil, where he met with Government officials, including police commanders and senior ministers, as well as non-governmental organizations (NGOs) and over 40 witnesses to human rights abuses.

Mr. Alston was especially critical of the "mega-operations" strategy involving hundreds of police assaulting gang-controlled neighborhoods, which is increasingly popular in Rio de Janeiro.

"Local officials claim that these impressive sounding mega-operations are protecting residents from drug gangs, but the operations have hurt ordinary people far more than they have hurt the drug gangs," Mr. Alston said.

A June 2007 operation in the impoverished Complexo do Alemão favela, near Rio de Janeiro, involved over 1,450 police and killed 19 people, but only resulted in the capture of two machine guns, six handguns, one sub-machine gun and 300 kilograms of drugs. Independent experts concluded that a number of the dead had most likely been summarily executed.

Mr. Alston reported that there has been little public outcry at police violence in Brazil because of widespread skepticism over normal law enforcement measures used to combat drug gangs.

"A remarkable number of police lead double lives," said Mr. Alston, "While on duty, they fight the drug gangs, but on their days off, they work as foot soldiers of organized crime."

Some 70% of homicides in the northeastern state of Pernambuco are committed by death squads, many of which are comprised of either current or former police officers. The squads are typically contracted to murder business, political or personal rivals to drug gangs and to suppress indigenous and land-worker activism, according to the report.

Although Mr. Alston praised Pernambuco's new governor's efforts to rid the region's death squads, he concluded that the hundreds of people arrested so far only "represent the tip of the iceberg."

The most significant of the many factors leading to police participation in organized crime and in unlawful killings is the low conviction rate even in regular murder cases. In São Paulo, only about 10% of homicides are tried in the courts and only half of those result in convictions, according to the report.

"Clearly, the institutions for holding police accountable are broke, but they are not beyond repair," said Mr. Alston.

"My hope is that the detailed recommendations in my report will provide a starting point for undertaking the necessary reforms."

Bubba Boy

09-18-08, 20:07

I have often seen the number quoted at 50%, who knows what the real number is but 20% seems low.

Sperto

09-18-08, 21:17

I think we shouldn't be too hard on the brazilian police.

* Yes, there are a lot of corruption.
* Yes, there are innocent people getting killed in the shoot-outs between police and bandits.
* A couple of years ago there were 27 murders/day in Rio.
* The majority of the people killed were people involved in drug-trafficking.
* The police has a very tough job cleaning up in the favelas. The bandits are heavily armed and it's hard to enter the favelas.
* If we assume that 20% of the killings are made by the police I think the majority of these victims are not innocent people, but bandits.
* I can't feel sorry if bandits and criminals involved in drug-trafficking get killed.
* My personal experience of the brazilian police are just about 100% positive.

Just my opinion.

Walker

12-04-08, 22:05

Mayra Avellar Neves (17) from Vila Cruzeiro receives the Children's Peace Prize for her work helping the school stay open in Vila Cruzeiro despite the drug related violence on the streets.

See http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/southamerica/081204-student-protest-mc

Walker

Exec Talent

01-20-09, 15:50

** Police Scams **

Speaking of people preying on punters at help, I have been pulled over 4 times now while inside a taxi travelling from Avenida Atlantica to Ipanema by police.

They take you out of the car, Search your pockets, and if you have a prostitute with you they plant drugs on her or in the taxi and tell you you have to pay.

Has this happened to anyone else? Be careful guys, its beyond fucked.

*** copied from Rio de Janeiro Reports ***

A few years back, I used to stay at the Intercontinental Hotel by the Fashion Mall. One day I was returning from Help with a girl and the taxi was pulled over and my pockets were searched. My biggest fear was what you mentioned that drugs would be planted on me. That was not the case and we went on our way. However, the taxi driver did ask me if I gave the police any money. I said no and he replied, good.

During this period I was using a private driver in a private car and we never got stopped. The one time I used a taxi, I got stopped. I have heard from others that this is often happens traveling late at night from Copacabana to Ipanema, Leblon and Sao Conrado.

Others experiences and recommendations would be appreciated.

Koolkid

01-20-09, 16:17

Perkele

01-20-09, 16:35

you are absolutely correct.

the police is looking for gringos that have drugs in their posession. even if the ho has drugs is bad enough. not to mention if the girl is ****d. remember that fake id doesn't free you from the responsibility.

i was stopped on saturday night, but since we had nothing on and i speak almost fluent portuguese police just let us go. also they tried to get the taxi driver to turn us in, but he is my friend so he backed us up.

that is one reason why i hardly ever go to copa, too much bullshit.

Bravo

01-20-09, 18:36

Sehns

01-20-09, 19:04

Yeah we got pulled over Saturday night as well, which is why I wrote this report. Its very shady. Its either a spot check or they pull you over. The taxi driver I had told me that a lot of girls from Help actually work together with the police to scam punters.

So it works like this, a girl takes you out of help, you get in the taxi, the police pull you over, splash cocaine on the seat of the taxi when your busy talking to the other one, and then they shine the torch on it, and say yeah you've got cocaine your going to jail.

But! if you pay R$300 (or whatever you agreed to pay the girl) you can go. You'll know if the girls in on it because she will be upset and then say she's going straight home afterwards instead of back to your place.

How is it even possible to stop this extortion from happening?

Poucolouco

01-20-09, 20:05

Is it safe to walk from help to Rua Almirante Goncalves when help closes, or is a taxi required for the short journey. It seems abit of a catch 22. If you walk the streets, good chance of getting mugged, if you take a taxi, good chance of getting extorted by the fuzz!

This is the only thing that is holding me back from my 1st trip to Rio - Safety.It is safe. It is only one block away but as anywhere, be alert to what is around you before you step off the curb from Terrasso Atlantico. Be sure to stay on Ave Atlantico rather than use rua Aires Saldana (the street behind Help.) Because of all the cars parked on Almirant Gonsalves, a taxi can not get you to your doorstep anyway.

Perkele

01-20-09, 20:40

Turn you in for what? if you had nothing on you and did nothing wrong, what was he going to turn you in for?I can see that you have very little experience from Rio.

The idea is that taxi driver would tell some bs to the police which can be used as leverage when extorting money.

The police are worst criminals here.

Hulk

01-20-09, 21:38

I can see that you have very little experience from Rio.I couldn't agree more. After living in Rio for several years, I can confidently say that guilt or innocence is a minor consideration when dealing with Rio police officers. Personal relationships and money trump guilt or innocence any day of the week.

Mongers need to remember they're not in Kansas anymore.

Pussyhunter099

01-21-09, 00:08

Last April when I was in Rio, one night I went to Via Show with a gdp. On the way back to the hotel around 3am the taxi was stopped after we went through a tunnel on the way back. I speak a little portuguese so I did not understand most of what was being said. We all had to get out of the cab, the gdp told the police that I was an american and we were returning from Via Show. The police checked the cab driver's id, I don't remenber if they frisked him, they checked the inside of the cab. They checked my id, I had photo copies of the following documentation; passport photo page, passport information page, brasilian visa page, passport entrance stamp and the customs form that gets stamped on arrival at the airport. They patted me down looking for drugs I guess. They did not check the gdp's id and they did not search her for drugs. After they checked my id and searched me they let us go.

Abzsafado

01-21-09, 12:07

I have been stopped numerous times on the road from Leblon to Barra near vips. I have never been asked for money. The cops are looking for people with guns or drugs if you have neither don't worry. Just make sure you have some ID.

Spinnerman

01-21-09, 15:01

Friday I was pulled over by police in a taxi with a prostitute , going from Help to Ipanema , they searched my pockets the girls purse and the taxi seats , there were no drugs and they didn't plant any. We went on our way. They were courteous and professional. I had about 200 Reals on me in cash and they were very careful to show that they did not take any. It's also possible that in your case the girl was already holding, .
The only other run in I had with the police was two years ago I was with a girl going from Lapa to Copa and she had just turned 18 ( looked younger ) , so she had her chlldren's ID not her adult ID .The police said I was in big trouble etc , I knew she was legal , but the police were also saying they were going to take her seperately for questioning which had her really scared. The police said for $5000 US they would let us go. I negotiated it down to 72 Reals which was all I had on me.

Sehns

01-21-09, 15:22

I'll tell you why I know they planted drugs on the taxi seat.

They thoroughly searched both of us, they even checked inside my GDP's mouth, and inside the front of my boxer shorts (patted left and right of my junk), we stood around for 5 minutes while they searched the inside of the taxi over and over and over again. Then, when we where not looking, we where told to divert our attention to the inside of the cab, where there was a fine sprinkle of powder on the seat where I was sitting, which was completely unsmudged (I had been sitting on it 5 minutes ago)

Considering they'd already searched us both thoroughly and for it to magically appear after the seventh search it was very obviously planted

I have never once been asked for ID.

Poucolouco

01-21-09, 20:11

I'll tell you why I know they planted drugs on the taxi seat.
... when we where not looking, we where told to divert our attention to the inside of the cab, where there was a fine sprinkle of powder on the seat where I was sitting, which was completely unsmudged (I had been sitting on it 5 minutes ago)

** Police Scams **
Speaking of people preying on punters at help, I have been pulled over 4 times now while inside a taxi travelling from Avenida Atlantica to Ipanema by police.

They take you out of the car, Search your pockets, and if you have a prostitute with you they plant drugs on her or in the taxi and tell you you have to pay.

Has this happened to anyone else? Be careful guys, its beyond fucked..

Do you recall the exact location(s) where you were detained? This is relevant because Copacabana is in the jurisdiction of the 19th Batallion, and the Ipanema/Leblon area is in the jurisdiction of the 23rd Batallion. It might be useful for people who want to avoid this situation.

Av Rainha Elizabeth De Belgica, smack bang in the middle.
This looks like tactics of the 23rd Bn (Leblon). Also, there could be some collusion going on between the PMRJ and the taxistas who are picking up fares from HELP. I suggest people who are headed to Ipanema, Leblon or other points west direct their taxista to turn right on rua Sousa Lima and go two blocks west to take a left on rua Barato Ribiero, and go all the way to rua Juaquim Nabuco to head into Ipanema. This “might” avoid the roadblock. Alternatively you can take a circuitous route by making a U-turn on Ave Atlantica at rua Francisco Sa and then cut over to Barato Ribiero at rua Bolivar. It is a good idea to keep R$100 secret stash in case you need it to pay a "road fee."

JohnnyBraz

01-25-09, 23:52

Has anybody ever been pulled over or hit a road block by the police, going from the airport to copa in a taxi? If so did they take your money off you?

Bubba Boy

01-26-09, 17:19

Has anybody ever been pulled over or hit a road block by the police, going from the airport to copa in a taxi? If so did they take your money off you?

I have been stopped at a check point, at gun point, as we were entering the road that leads to the airport. I showed my passport and was on my way in a few seconds.

I have been stopped by Police maybe 10 times in roadblocks, never has anyone ever asked for cash. Don't know why, I have heard some horror stories by people I trust that have been basically robbed. I guess I have been lucky, being sober 99% of the time probably helps as well.

JohnnyBraz

01-27-09, 05:56

I have been stopped at a check point, at gun point, as we were entering the road that leads to the airport. I showed my passport and was on my way in a few seconds.

I have been stopped by Police maybe 10 times in roadblocks, never has anyone ever asked for cash. Don't know why, I have heard some horror stories by people I trust that have been basically robbed. I guess I have been lucky, being sober 99% of the time probably helps as well.Yes, but have you ever been pulled over and searched when you has a substancial amount off money on you. Like when arriving at gig and getting a taxi to Copa.

Perkele

01-27-09, 11:57

I forgot one thing, there are a lot more check points this time of the year. Lot of people do not pay IPVA, which is kind of vehicle tax, and police stop a lot all vehicles. Easy money because if IPVA isn't paid they can apprehend the vehicle. So its a game brasilians play.... The police likes to apprehend motorcycles because they are easy to transport and auction.

Eros74

01-28-09, 23:18

A turist I spoke yesterday told me that a week ago, when he arrived, out of help, a pregnant woman went close to him to ask for money, he said immediately no, but in a while 4 or 5 children were close to him and one of them put the hands inside his front pocket.

He told he did not understand as usually they search in back pocket of jeans and so on, but after about hundred of meters the police stop you and immediately asked him if he has drug, he said no, they said, show what you have in your pockets and they put the finger in the front pocket of his jeans.

He told me, the children were not able to put drugs inside his pockets but he is sure this is what they tried to do it and yes I saw often a pregnant girl out of help.

I just wanted to share this with my fellow mongers here.

Stay safe and with opened eyes.

Java Man

02-18-09, 22:17

Carnaval is upon us. Oglobo reporting today four armed men invaded K. George Hostel in Copacabana and robbed tourist from Germany, Israel and Colombia.

RIO - At least thirteen tourists were attacked by four men armed with pistols and two grenades inside a hostel in Copacabana, in Rio's South Zone, in the early hours Wednesday.

According to police, about 3h, the guard open the door of the hostel, located at Rua Guimaraes Natal 6 for the bandits. He said in testimony to the Tourist Police Station, in Leblon, that the hostels camera's had interference and he was unable to identify who was at the gate.
Captain Fernando Veloso, confirmed that the police will request the images from the cameras of buildings near the hostel.

The bandits entered the rooms and awakened the tourists announcing a robbery. Some bandits shouted that they were mafia. The tourists were locked in a room and monitored by criminals while the other bandits stole money, documents, cameras, watches and other personal belongings of the tourists.

Colombian Juan Esteban, 21 years, said that one of the tourists was attacked with a gun because the criminals thought that he was "talking too much." The Colombian came to Rio for ten days and lost all his money. He said he does not know how he is going to get back home.

The police said they will obtain security camera images from the buildings neighboring the hostel to help in the investigation. After the robbery, the bandits fled on foot.

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/18/turistas-sao-assaltados-em-albergue-de-copacabana-754469294.asp

video report at:
http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Rio/0,,MUL1007145-5606,00-CRIMINOSOS+ASSALTAM+TURISTAS+DENTRO+DE+ALBERGUE+EM+COPACABANA.html

Exec Talent

02-19-09, 11:11

Jan 156

02-19-09, 16:18

Have the taxi drop you off along Av Atlantica a block before Help so you do not have to deal with the kids as you get out of the taxi. Walk as fast as you can, not looking (other than to avoid) or talking with anyone until you arrive in front of help.

I often disagree with ET but not on this. I´m quoting him just to emphasise the point, especially as Help is understandably one of the first places a newbie will head for.

Of course you can always go by bus <g>. People don´t harrass you as you get off a bus as they assume you don´t have any money.

And same applies coming out of Help. Don´t go near kids or beggars. (I´d say the only exception is if you are with a local girl who spots a genuine case - but there are few ´genuine cases´ near Help - it is target-the-tourist Central.) Walk fast, walk away, run if you have to. As you come out, turn right and get a taxi from the side street (normal prices), not one from in front of Help (again, if you are with a carioca girl, rules can be bent though). From Help to the far end of Copa at Princesa Isabel is less than 10R by taxi. If you are walking, you might take either side street (with great care!) and then follow NS Copa staying mostly on the side where the buses stop (as there´s more people). You can flag any bus as long as you have a note that is a ten or smaller (they´ll sometinmes accept twenties, but nothing larger). Watch out for when you want to get off - they travel fast so ring the bell in time. If you can ask nicely the driver will let you off anywhere though.

On a similar principle, chatting to a Riotur person about the best way to get back from a Beija-Flor party in Nilopolis, she suggested the train. I´ve been to Nilopolis before but don´t fancy wandering around at night without a carioca. The bus station is quite a way from the quadra where the parties are held. The train station is closer. ¨There´s no robberies on the train,¨she said, ¨as no-one´s got any money ;). There again, you can always share a mini-bus with Angramar Tourismo (50R return including entrance ticket). That´s a lot less than the taxi. (Nilopolis is near the northern outskirts.)

Eros74

02-19-09, 18:42

Have the taxi drop you off along Av Atlantica a block before Help so you do not have to deal with the kids as you get out of the taxi. Walk as fast as you can, not looking (other than to avoid) or talking with anyone until you arrive in front of help.

Right, it works in this way, cause once that I arrived and in front of help was too crowded, taxi stopped about 100 meters after Help and walking there, no one children came to me as they keep on paying attention to the taxi arriving there.

From floripa, cannot wait to be back to rio....

Koolkid

02-19-09, 18:50

I often disagree with ET but not on this. I´m quoting him just to emphasise the point, especially as Help is understandably one of the first places a newbie will head for.

Of course you can always go by bus <g>. People don´t harrass you as you get off a bus as they assume you don´t have any money.

And same applies coming out of Help. Don´t go near kids or beggars. (I´d say the only exception is if you are with a local girl who spots a genuine case - but there are few ´genuine cases´ near Help - it is target-the-tourist Central.) Walk fast, walk away, run if you have to. As you come out, turn right and get a taxi from the side street (normal prices), not one from in front of Help (again, if you are with a carioca girl, rules can be bent though). From Help to the far end of Copa at Princesa Isabel is less than 10R by taxi. If you are walking, you might take either side street (with great care!) and then follow NS Copa staying mostly on the side where the buses stop (as there´s more people). You can flag any bus as long as you have a note that is a ten or smaller (they´ll sometinmes accept twenties, but nothing larger). Watch out for when you want to get off - they travel fast so ring the bell in time. If you can ask nicely the driver will let you off anywhere though.

On a similar principle, chatting to a Riotur person about the best way to get back from a Beija-Flor party in Nilopolis, she suggested the train. I´ve been to Nilopolis before but don´t fancy wandering around at night without a carioca. The bus station is quite a way from the quadra where the parties are held. The train station is closer. ¨There´s no robberies on the train,¨she said, ¨as no-one´s got any money ;). There again, you can always share a mini-bus with Angramar Tourismo (50R return including entrance ticket). That´s a lot less than the taxi. (Nilopolis is near the northern outskirts.)I planned on walking to and from Help when I go there, as the apartment I plan on staying at is on Rua Almirante Goncalves.

Do you think this will be safe and ok?

Exec Talent

02-19-09, 19:24

I often disagree with ET but not on this. I´m quoting him just to emphasise the point, especially as Help is understandably one of the first places a newbie will head for.

Christopherd,
True, we may disagree on some things but you regularly provide very valuable information. Greatly appreciated.

ET

Java Man

02-20-09, 09:05

Another hostel was attacked in Lapa, 24hrs after the hostel in Copa was attacked. 34 tourist were robbed of valuables by 6 armed men this time. The police have suspects for both robberies and do not think they are connected. (The MO's are similar, though.) Also a tourist Jeep with 10 tourists was robbed by 2 armed men in Tijuca Forest. One of the tourist alerted a passing police patrol to the robbery. The police then exchange gunfire with the robbers, who fled into the jungle. 4 tourists were robbed in this incident.

The police suspect that these 3 robberies were committed middle class men.

A Brasilian hotel industry association is concerned about the attacks on the hostels and has requested Rio State Gov. Sergio Cabral Filho provide more security for tourists in the city.

http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Rio/0,,MUL1010034-5606,00-POLICIA+INTERCEPTA+ASSALTO+A+TURISTAS+MAS+QUATRO+ESTRANGEIROS+SAO+ROUBADOS.html
and
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/02/19/turistas-sao-atacados-durante-passeio-de-jipe-754508392.asp

Poucolouco

02-20-09, 19:19

I planned on walking to and from Help when I go there, as the apartment I plan on staying at is on Rua Almirante Goncalves.

Do you think this will be safe and ok?

Koolkid, there´s no need to totally panic over these incidents. Almirante Goncaves is only one block from Djalma Ulriche the street next to Terraco Atlantico. Just walk close to the street, not the buildings. A taxi can´t get you to your doorstep anyway. Almirante Goncalves will be full of parked cars. The closest you can get is Hotel Debret.

Jan 156

02-20-09, 21:49

Koolkid, there´s no need to totally panic over these incidents. Almirante Goncaves is only one block from Djalma Ulriche the street next to Terraco Atlantico. Just walk close to the street, not the buildings. A taxi can´t get you to your doorstep anyway. Almirante Goncalves will be full of parked cars. The closest you can get is Hotel Debret.
Yeah good advice - keep plenty of space around you generally. Some of the most popular mugging spots in Copa are places where you are blocked in between railings and a walled flowerbed or whatever. If you really can´t get past a hassler in Help area, go back the way you came. Don´t stop and get into an argument if you can´t walk past/thru. Once you stand still there is plenty of options for reinforcements to arrive. But as Pouco says, don´t get freaked out by it all. There are scarier places in the world. Welcome to this particular jungle and don´t get your arm chewed off. :D

Exec Talent

02-21-09, 13:58

Tourists who just arrived reported that they witnessed a gun battle on their way from GIG to Copa. Anyone have any details?

Benjoe

02-21-09, 17:56

Tourists who just arrived reported that they witnessed a gun battle on their way from GIG to Copa. Anyone have any details?
Rivals gangs on opposite sides of the roadway shooting at each other happens once in awhile.

Spiros Katas

02-21-09, 18:11

Hello, I travel the other month to Rio alone. I have listen so many things for this city, is it so dangerous city for a traveler? Because from what I listen, standar they ll steal me, and I ll be gun robbery victim. Tell me please someone who know what happen to this city.

JohnnyBraz

02-21-09, 21:12

I planned on walking to and from Help when I go there, as the apartment I plan on staying at is on Rua Almirante Goncalves.

Do you think this will be safe and ok?I personally walk 4am in the morning from help to contsante ramos, never a problem. To many people worry to much in Rio and it spoils there trip. Your main concern off getting robbed is by the police.

Exec Talent

02-22-09, 00:11

Rivals gangs on opposite sides of the roadway shooting at each other happens once in awhile.
They said that the police were involved.

Edward M

02-22-09, 18:51

I personally walk 4am in the morning from help to contsante ramos, never a problem. To many people worry to much in Rio and it spoils there trip. Your main concern off getting robbed is by the police.I was leaving L'uomo late one night to go to Santa Clara and many people had warned me to take a taxi, etc. As I was walking down Barata Ribeiro feeling quite a bit nervous I saw a very old woman walking her poodle. Then I thought, "Jeeze, I have to relax a little."

For the record I have been conned or attempted to be conned several times in Rio by cab drivers but never mugged on the street. Note I am not suggesting doing stupid things like stumbling around drunk down dark alleys.

Koolkid

02-22-09, 19:32

Yeah good advice - keep plenty of space around you generally. Some of the most popular mugging spots in Copa are places where you are blocked in between railings and a walled flowerbed or whatever. If you really can´t get past a hassler in Help area, go back the way you came. Don´t stop and get into an argument if you can´t walk past/thru. Once you stand still there is plenty of options for reinforcements to arrive. But as Pouco says, don´t get freaked out by it all. There are scarier places in the world. Welcome to this particular jungle and don´t get your arm chewed off. :DThanks for the peace of mind. I will follow your advice!

Exec Talent

02-26-09, 19:49

Three things that should never occupy the same space - ATM, Gringo, GDP.

I walked into the bank today and looked over and a GDP was instructing a Gringo how to get money out of the ATM. Although other ones were available, she had him at the one closest to the street right in front of a window. She was not happy when I pulled him aside and told him that the other ATMs were more secure. He didn't speak English, but fortunately we were able to communicate well enough in German. I stood between him and the GDP as he entered his password and got his money. Again she did not look too happy.

For those new to the Rio scene, the last person you want to go with you to the ATM is a GDP you just met.

Poucolouco

02-27-09, 02:56

David68

02-28-09, 03:49

Three things that should never occupy the same space - ATM, Gringo, GDP.Exec, you and I have disagrred on an issue before, but this is the best advice for a newbie I have ever read on this board.

Sprite13

03-07-09, 06:59

Spent 10 days over Carnaval in Rio. Never felt as safe as this time as the heavy police and military police presence made things a lot safer. Again, caution is to be used at all times such as using common sense, not flashing money or jewelry or flashy toys such as expensive phones, watches and the likes. I was there with 2 other friends (1 brasilian and a non brasilian) and at times, with a local carioca friend, walking all around Copa and centro at all hours but not had any incident. Again, I followed common sense, dress as down as possible and speak portuguese so that helped a lot. But again, Rio can be dangerous if one is not careful.

By the way, one afternoon on the beach in front of the Othon Palace, heard people talk that there was an arrastão the afternoon of monday or tuesday of Carnaval. Apparently, it was swift and well organised and they took everything from the tourists on the beach. Anyone witnessed this or heard about this?

I am lucky I was not on the beach at those times but it is weird that such as thing can happen just steps from your hotel. Oh well.

JohnnyBraz

03-07-09, 08:28

Spent 10 days over Carnaval in Rio. Never felt as safe as this time as the heavy police and military police presence made things a lot safer. Again, caution is to be used at all times such as using common sense, not flashing money or jewelry or flashy toys such as expensive phones, watches and the likes. I was there with 2 other friends (1 brasilian and a non brasilian) and at times, with a local carioca friend, walking all around Copa and centro at all hours but not had any incident. Again, I followed common sense, dress as down as possible and speak portuguese so that helped a lot. But again, Rio can be dangerous if one is not careful.

By the way, one afternoon on the beach in front of the Othon Palace, heard people talk that there was an arrastão the afternoon of monday or tuesday of Carnaval. Apparently, it was swift and well organised and they took everything from the tourists on the beach. Anyone witnessed this or heard about this?Well, we must be very different. I always dress in armani, vesace, d & g. Hugo boss etc. I will not dress like some one from welfare for nobody. I always wear an omega or rolex watch. I walk around Rio at all hours off the morning. The people that will rob you are not military trained men, they are welfare chancers. I personally enjoy hurting the bottom off the barrel.

Rio Bob

03-07-09, 18:42

Terrified Balham tourists kidnapped by Rio 'police'
10:50am Friday 6th March 2009

Two men from Balham have told of their terror at being kidnapped by men in police uniform during a holiday in Brazil last month.

The 26 and 27-year-old tourists were leaving a club in Ipanema, Rio de Janeiro, when they were handcuffed and bundled into a car.

The pair, who have asked not to be identified, believe the kidnappers were police officers and Brazilian authorities are investigating the case.

One said: “We drove off and they pulled out a gun – not pointing it at us, but just for show – and they were saying ‘money money’ so I gave them R$150 (£44) and then my friend gave them R$80 (£24), his phone and camera.

“They took our handcuffs off but wouldn’t let us go.

"That’s when I got worried. God knows where they were going to take us.

"We thought maybe they would take us to the slums or somewhere deserted and leave us there.”

The driver jumped several red lights so the men had no choice but to leap from the moving car.

They hid in bushes before flagging down a taxi and riding back to their apartment in the wealthy south zone.

They later went to the British Consulate where police launched an investigation into the kidnapping.

He added: “The police were really good. They really wanted to find out who it was that did it, and we spent all day with them.

"But because we were in the back of the police car, we couldn’t see their faces. We didn’t want to identify the wrong person and ruin their lives.”

Brazilian newspaper O Dia reported police are treating the incident, which happened on Sunday, February 1, as extortion and are trying to identify the two suspects, described as mixed race and in their 30s.

Jan 156

03-07-09, 20:14

I love these stories - help to keep the buffoon rate down. O Globo had stories yesterday of attacks in three different South Zone area too.

Sprite13

03-08-09, 09:25

JohnnyBraz

03-08-09, 10:49

Oh boy, dressing in designer clothes and wearing rolex in Rio? Good for you but don't be surprised when you get robbed. Rio is definitely NOT the place to show off any form of wealth, UNLESS one is going very well accompanied to a fancy club or restaurant, and even there, one would need to be on their guards at all time and be with locals that they can totally trust.Well I have spent over 18 months total in Rio, over many trips. I am not a small man. Ex pro boxer/ turned body builder. A few times I have had problems. Once a man tried to rob me at 10 to 11 at night in centro, with a knife. I knocked him out, the jumped on his head a good five times. People around didn't stop when he tried to rob me, but they all stopped and looked when I jumped on his head. I had another drama in pavon (favela) having a beer at a bar about 2 thirds off the way up the hill (hence, I don't dress like that if I go into a favela). I had a fight at the bar with some brazilian man who just wanted to pick a fight. 6 men come down on motor cycles with 2 way radio's and guns. I phoned a friend who lives in the favela. It was sorted without any drama. The gangs actually bashed the man who started the fight. All was good, I took my mate out from there after. Tried to get him a women, but no help girl would go with him. I have even woken up in the morning in a favela on a few times, with a women from there. Never a drama. People in Rio are opertunists, if they see an easy chance they will take it. Women and street hoods. Favelas are different. If you show respect, they will not dis-respect. I like to see how real people live. I have sat at many parties in the favelas, even as far out as the complex alomon. (very different from the copa favela's). Remember one thing. When you fear people. They prey on your fear.

Jan 156

03-09-09, 00:24

Quite refreshing to have such a different viewpoint from Johnny Braz - although maybe you wouldn´t recommend that the average monger to emulate you!

Personally I´m a bit of a chameleon I suppose. I dress for the image I want to create (or avoid creating). But neither am I quite the tough nut that Johnny Braz is. I can´t recall ever jumping on someone´s head. And although I agree to differ I suppose on a personal level, I very much agree with the ´respect in order to get respect´motto.

My private chuckle was imagining you with nice Armanis on the BA85 stairwell not getting them scuffed. Yet I find if I wear designer gear I am for some reason more skilful at not getting it messed up. I just enjoy both ends - looking down on people from the dress circle of Teatro Municipal (though as I travel in light it tends to be Brasilian-bought designer if I dress well here), or looking up out of the corner of my Saturday preto-wear among the goths and heavy metallers slumming out of the lovely mimosa grime . . .

Java Man

03-09-09, 04:31

When you fear people. They prey on your fear.
Personally I´m a bit of a chameleon I tend to agree with Johnny and am also a chameleon when I travel. Two things I keep in mind though, there is always someone out there tougher, stronger, etc (just look at any UFC bout) and all bets are off when gun play is involved.

Rio Bob

03-09-09, 22:51

It's been my experience it doesn't matter what you wear, whether you dress like you're from a favela or out of a magazine, I just don't wear my Rolex or even my cheaper Movado and I leave my rings, necklace and bracelet at home, I wear a $25 Nike watch I bought on overstock.com and they're welcome to it.

I think they know if you’re a tourist no matter what you wear. Recently I was sitting on the beach at Posto 9 with an amiga, she looked very Brasilian. All the vendors were coming up to us but I didn't think anything of it because they always do when I'm on the beach. She told me they are coming up to us because they know I'm a tourist; I said I have a Brazilian bathing suit on, Brazilian flip flops and tee shirt. She said it doesn't matter, you look like a tourist and that necklace around your neck doesn't help, I said I bought it on the beach here, she said yeah but Brazilians don't buy that stuff and wear it. Another time in a swing club I had no clothes on and they knew I was a tourist.

So I wear whatever I want because they're not going to steal my clothes but they can steal my Rolex especially if they have a gun and I'm not a big guy or ex boxer.

I once was going to Rio with a buddy of mine but he was arriving several days ahead of me, he had been there before but not as many times as me. I told him, leave your jewelry at home and wear sun block. He told me I'm not worried about being robbed, I can handle myself and I'm not worried about getting a sun burn, I live near the beach (In the northeast) and my skin is conditioned to the sun. When I got down there a few days later, he told me they robbed his very expensive irreplaceable necklace doing a ride by on a bicycle late at night and plus he could barely walk or sit down because he had severe burns on his body from the sun. I didn't say I told you so but it was a lesson for me.

Rio Bob

03-18-09, 03:19

Brazilian police say seven armed men have invaded a small hotel east of Rio de Janeiro and robbed some 40 Argentine tourists.
Authorities say the attackers held the tourists captive for four hours Friday in the tourist center of Buzios while they took money, jewelry, cell phones, cameras and other electronics. There were no reports of injuries.

Tourist Laura Guerra told the Argentine newspaper Clarin the assailants even had a list of the names of those staying at the hotel.

Police say they have no suspects in custody.

Last month armed men invaded two hostels in Rio during Carnival, robbing scores of tourists.

Exec Talent

03-24-09, 18:50

A terrritorial war has been going on among the favela druglords and police over the last few days. Last night there was a gun battle on Santa Clara and Toneleiro.

El Austriaco

03-25-09, 00:24

http://www.sidneyrezende.com/noticia/34055+carro+de+estrangeiros+que+estavam+embriagados+e+fuzilado+por+traficantes

Carro de estrangeiros que estavam embriagados é fuzilado por traficantes
Thiago Feres | Rio+ | 24/03/2009 09:07

"Dois estrangeiros cometeram uma série de irregularidades no início da noite desta segunda-feira (23) pelas ruas da região central da cidade e quase foram metralhados por criminosos do Morro da Coroa, no Catumbi. A confusão começou por volta das 18h, quando o vice-cônsul argentino Cesar Enrique Kuberek, de 40 anos, o francês Laurent Mourre, de 43, bateram com o Mercedez-Benz blindado que era dirigido pelo argentino, visivelmente embriagado, na esquina das ruas Taylor e Visconde do Paraná, em Santa Teresa. Eles tentavam entrar em um beco sem saída e por três vezes bateram num carro que foi jogado em uma escadaria.

Depois disso, os dois avançaram quatro sinais vermelhos e não obedeceram, em três oportunidades, a sinalização dos policiais militares do batalhão do Estácio (1ºBPM). Desorientados, os dois entraram por engano e em alta velocidade, no Morro da Coroa, onde os criminosos pensavam se tratar de uma invasão de um bando rival e fizeram vários disparos contra o carro dos estrangeiros. Mesmo com o veículo danificado, os dois conseguiram deixar a comunidade. Antes deles serem parados pelos policiais militares, ainda houve perseguição, que só terminou na saída do Túnel Santa Bárbara, no acesso à Rua das Laranjeiras. Vestidos de ternos, os dois estrangeiros ainda tentaram escapar pegando um táxi, mas acabaram detidos e encaminhados à delegacia da Cidade Nova (6ªDP). Eles serão autuados por dano ao patrimônio e foram liberados após prestarem depoimentos."

Let's see whether I get this straight: driving drunk, hitting other cars three times (!), running 4 (!!) red lights, not stopping on 3 (!!!) occasions though the police tries to stop you, then entering a favela with the police in pursuit and both police and drug traffickers (!!!!) shooting at you? Congratulations. And if that wasn't enough, the driver was the Vice-Consul (!!!!!) of Argentina.

Just to show that when it comes to behaving stupidly in Rio, nationality and professional/occupational status really don't matter.

EA

Koolkid

07-11-09, 07:45

Ok maybe I should have worded my last thread in the apartment section better. Are there lots of thugs and un-desirables that hang around this area whether it be day or night?

Thanks

Exec Talent

07-11-09, 19:59

Ok maybe I should have worded my last thread in the apartment section better. Are there lots of thugs and un-desirables that hang around this area whether it be day or night?

Thanks
This is one of the best areas in Copa and not anywhere near rua sá ferreira mentioned by a "rio expert" under the apartment thread. You are within easy walking distance of the metro, Help, termas, supermarkets, banks and the beach.

Edward M

08-05-09, 04:09

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1203721/Mum-theyre-taking-prison--sorry-How-Brit-law-graduates-break-news-arrest-despairing-parents.html

Apparently they claimed they were robbed on a bus but police found the stolen items at their hostel. They are out on bail but facing 5 years.

Sperto

08-05-09, 06:01

[url]...Apparently they claimed they were robbed on a bus but police found the stolen items at their hostel. They are out on bail but facing 5 years.
That's ironical. Two law graduates spending time in brazilian jail accused of insurance fraud.
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/08/01/turistas-inglesas-acusadas-de-golpe-deixam-presidio-no-rio-757071729.asp

That must have been a different experience spending some time in Mesquita and Bangu prison. "Mum, there are no beds to sleep in..."

Frauds like this one makes the crime statistics in Brazil look even worse than it already is.

July Gan

08-05-09, 10:30

Poucolouco

08-05-09, 15:56

That's ironical. Two law graduates spending time in brazilian jail accused of insurance fraud.
http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/08/01/turistas-inglesas-acusadas-de-golpe-deixam-presidio-no-rio-757071729.asp

That must have been a different experience spending some time in Mesquita and Bangu prison. "Mum, there are no beds to sleep in..."

Frauds like this one makes the crime statistics in Brazil look even worse than it already is.
This news report is totally lacking in discussion of the time frame and important elements of this story. The so-called ‘luggage trick’ insurance scam sounds a bit fishy to me. They say they were robbed on a bus, losing possessions worth £1,300. Travel insurance luggage claims generally are not reimbursed for 90 days to 6 months, yet Brasilian detectives claim four items supposedly stolen were found in their lockers at a youth hostel. Where’s the rest of the story?

According to commenters on the following report, false insurance claims seem to be a popular indiscretion for Britts. I hope they have high standards for admittance to the bar in the UK.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/brit-girls-accused-fraud-brazil

Edward M

08-06-09, 01:21

They should spend some time in prison for being so stupid...the funny part is that when they go back to the UK they will not be able to practice law with a conviction for fraud....Is that a fact? I did not think foreign convictions would have any effect.

July Gan

08-06-09, 19:52

Is that a fact? I did not think foreign convictions would have any effect.

if the conviction (foreign or uk) was for assault or something violent, it would not matter. "disonest" type convictions wherever means no legal career...

Jan 156

08-07-09, 01:16

They should spend some time in prison for being so stupid...the funny part is that when they go back to the UK they will not be able to practice law with a conviction for fraud....
Not all students want to practice law. There's many law careers that don't involve the Bar.

Poucolouco

08-07-09, 16:19

If you are familiar with the film Tropa de Elite, you will recall the gangster cremation of one of the witnesses. Yesterday, police investigated the site of one such execution site at Favela Vila Vintém. Police found 4 charred bodies which they believe to be members of rival gangs.

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/fotogaleria/2009/9570/

Jan 156

08-07-09, 16:24

Rio Bob

08-21-09, 02:27

Java Man

09-20-09, 17:04

09/17/09
A retired 63 year old Swiss photographer and 2 year resident of Rio was setup for robbery by his GDP girlfriend of 6 months. The swede lived in an apartment on Ave Princess Isabel. The GF Fernanda Silva Souza, 28 confessed to conspiring with her friend Ariana Gualberto Lessa, 25, to rob Gilbert Marcel Hirschi. They wanted to rob him of money and electronics.

Surveillance video shows Adriana following Fernanda and Gilbert into the building elevator and then forcing them into the apartment. Gilbert peppered sprayed Adriana and was shot in the back by Adriana. Police suspect Gilbert died believing he was protecting Fernanda, not knowing she was an accomplice.

Fernanda initially pretended to be a victim, but neighboring residents overheard Fernanda and Adriana arguing, with one of them stating: "What are we going to do now?" and informed police.

Gilbert Marcel Hirschi had supported Fernanda and her son the last 6 months.

Police stated Adriana has ties to traffickers in Rocinha and was know to give unsuspecting mongers the knockout drug, Boa Noite Cinderella.

Video also shows Adriana fleeing the scene. Adriana is currently a fugitive.

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009/09/18/policia-prende-garota-de-programa-envolvida-na-morte-de-fotografo-suico-767673499.asp

http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/0,,MUL1310293-5598,00-POLICIA+CULPA+PROSTITUTAS+POR+MORTE+DE+SUICO+NO+RIO.html
Video:
http://odia.terra.com.br/portal/rio/html/2009/9/prostituta_e_presa_e_confessa_participacao_no_assassinato_do_fotografo_suico_35922.html

Sperto

09-20-09, 17:47

09/17/09
A retired 63 year old Swiss photographer and 2 year resident of Rio was setup for robbery by his GDP girlfriend of 6 months...
Poor guy. Having a long-term relationship with a Prado Junior-pro can only have a miserable ending. I hope both women will rot away in prison.

Here is how the GF looks like:
http://urutau.proderj.rj.gov.br/policiacivil_imagens/imagem/180909_12dp.jpg

Eros74

09-20-09, 17:54

Marcop 12

09-20-09, 21:23

Java Man thanks for share this with us ! It is good to be aware that things like this happens.

Thanks Sperto for the link of her face.

They wrote the flat was in avenida princesa isabela, it seems is where the flats have two entrance, one from princ-isab and one from prado junior right ? Cause for 1 week i stayed there in january the first time I arrived here.

Real a poor guy, help 6 months a girl and get a end like this.

Do you think they also planned in advance to kill him or it just happened once he used the spray ?Yeah thanks Java for the link, it pays to beware these gangsta chics are more than capable of murder to get their hands on anything from money to goods anything that can be turned into money.

Although this was a long term thing the guy was caught up in theres no reason it couldnt have been a one night deal that went wrong, if no screening or too drunk to notice or care anything can happen!

I doubt she intended to kill but more than likely didnt have a plan at all! and could only see $$$ but that said armed with a loaded gun! But the fact remains you need to be on your guard with all GDPs to a degree if their given half a chance regardless of how nice or trusting you think they are, an opertunity to lift a camera or cell phone and its gone - to the next extreme calling in amigos & amigas being involved in some sort of robbery.

But 100% extra vigilance on certain types ie crack heads and the like.

It could be possible the 'girlfiend' was also threatened by the other or didnt realise the extent of what was going to happen or getting herself involved in or she was in it upto her neck and set the whole thing up with her gagsta chic buddy, one thing sounds possible she gave the name of her friend to police i doubt they got a good enough photo-fit from the security camera to identify and name.

Not a pleasant ending for the guy or family but demonstrates the need for screening and who your getting involved in.

Java Man

09-21-09, 01:01

Sperto:
I was looking for Fernanda's pic, Odia had it, but I couldn't find it later.
How did you find it?
Lukasek:
This was a robbery that turned deadly. I suspect Fernanda was going to play the victim, and keep dating Hirschi. It turned deadly when he resisted.
I was under the impression that most robberies in Rio occur at knife point as knives are easier to get. In order to get the firearm, the robber has to get "approval" from one of Rio's gangs.

I found another video report on terra.com. They have an interview of Fernanda and pic of the shooter Ariana, aka Lu, (attractive, but deadly!)
These two look familiar to anyone here? Maybe Mab's or Balcony's garotas.

Terra is reporting that 3 shots were fired. The Fatal shot hit Hirschi under his right arm and went out the left side of his back, puncturing his lungs in the process.

They're also reporting that Fernanda and Ariana were/are lovers. (Anyone surprised?)

once the link opens, click Video above Fernanda's pic :
http://noticias.terra.com.br/brasil/noticias/0,,OI3983740-EI5030,00-Policia+prostituta+confessa+***+matado+suico+no+Rio.html#tarticle

Exec Talent

09-21-09, 03:51

once the link opens, click Video above Fernanda's pic :
http://noticias.terra.com.br/brasil/noticias/0,,OI3983740-EI5030,00-Policia+prostituta+confessa+***+matado+suico+no+Rio.html#tarticle
Be sure to read the comments following the article. This one was especially complimentary of gringos.

ESTES GRINGOS SÃO TUDO BURROS..
NÃO SABEM NEM ESCOLHER MULHER..
VEM TUDO ATRÁS DESSAS NEGONAS
HORRÍVEIS

Eros74

09-21-09, 05:06

Thanks Java for the second video !!!

Yeah !!!

I read the following comments and even if I do not understand 100%, the feeling is the writers of comments think in some way he deserved this ?!?

I am wrong I hope, but who understand well portuguese can translate some comments please ?

"these gringos are all stupid" can be the translaction of the first line of comment Exec Talent quoted, right ?

The other comments, do not seem to me much better....

So most of times a robbery ends with murder when one resist ? A more than good reason to never resist....

The second thing really shocked me, is that one after 6 months relationship one should know whom is together....... So he was naive to not understand was together a shark, he was blind cause in love with her or she just was normal girl get mad in a while ?

Even if she is not my type of girl, but from help, across meja pataca till balcony there are tons of girls like her, so how many potencial killer we have close to us all day just for the fact we own a laptop or couple of hundreds of euro ?

p.s. maybe I have too many questions, but the last one is, she went to his apartment many times and she was blind or what, that she never realized there are camera playing 24h there ?!?

Sprite13

09-21-09, 06:28

This is insane, truly sad to read such stories.
But why oh why get involved with a) a GDP and b) a garbage like this? Who in their right mind would travel 10,000 miles to a) have sex with a skank like that and b) to pay for it? That is simply beyond understanding. Sure the guy may have been 63 but if he was living in Rio, he could have easily had a filet mignon. Some things never cease to amaze me.

Luka, the comments left by people on that page were basically
) gringos are stupid, they have no taste for going after these skanks.
Another one said that the guy was not only stupid but blind as well to be with such an ugly woman and another one said that who would pay to do a garbage like that? Can't disagree with any of these comments to be honest.

This is once again a warning sign, one more if there was any need to be ultra careful when picking someone. And the importance of not taking any GDP to your hotel/apart. The Brasilians know best, that's why they have all these motels all over town. Use them guys. Sure it's nice to have a warm, sexy and naked girl sleeping beside you and waking up to a nice morning session, but think also of the safety. Bring to your crib a girl that you know well. Common sense guys.

Play it safe guys, you dont want to end up like this poor Swiss guy. R.I.P.:(

Sperto

09-21-09, 06:47

Sperto:
I was looking for Fernanda's pic, Odia had it, but I couldn't find it later.
How did you find it?
I found it at
http://www.policiacivil.rj.gov.br/exibir.asp?id=7647

Fernanda and Ariana had a relationship. Not a big surprise.

JohnnyBraz

09-21-09, 09:13

Perkele

09-21-09, 10:16

Be sure to read the comments following the article. This one was especially complimentary of gringos.

ESTES GRINGOS SÃO TUDO BURROS..
NÃO SABEM NEM ESCOLHER MULHER..
VEM TUDO ATRÁS DESSAS NEGONAS
HORRÍVEIS

I discussed about this murder with my brasilian friends and all of them were saying that all mongers who come to Brasil to do GDPs deserve to die. Not one single soul felt any compassion for this swiss guy.

Exec Talent

09-21-09, 13:27

This might be a good time for us to put our collective heads together and come up with some Rio Safety Best Practices to be compiled and posted in Reports of Distinction.

Sperto

09-21-09, 14:06

I discussed about this murder with my brasilian friends and all of them were saying that all mongers who come to Brasil to do GDPs deserve to die.
Very mature and educated friends you have...

All brazilians who ride the metro/underground in London deserves to be gunned down by the police?

Perkele

09-21-09, 17:06

Very mature and educated friends you have...

All brazilians who ride the metro/underground in London deserves to be gunned down by the police?

As you, they are also entitled to have their opinion.

I wrote my comment just to show how average brasilians see *****mongering gringos.

Also I don't give a flying f**k if brasilians are being gunned down in London.

Ee2002

09-21-09, 20:35

I fail to see what looks have to do with what happened to this guy. Who knows what was going on between the two prior to the assault. Hell these things even occur in regular relationships, so you gotta be on your toes in ANY relationship.

Other than being alert with who you deal with, the most important thing to take away from this is DO NOT RESIST AGAINST ARMED BANDITS. 9 out of 10 times you WILL lose. I don't know about some but I value life more than my possessions. If you have something that you feel you need to fight ARMED bandits for, maybe you need to leave that stuff at home or secure them in a safe or something. Most armed robberies will go smoothly if you comply and give them what they ask for. Unfortunately these are a fact of life in a city like Rio, sometimes it's avoidable and sometimes not. Sometimes most of us will go by without encountering the darkside of places like Rio and get that false sense of security, but it's out there and can rear it's ugly head anytime or place. So be vigilant and take your precautions.

To minimize your lost when you get involved in these things you need to carry or have available in your room just enough to get by for the day. Hide or secure all your valuables,only bring necessities with you on your trips (leave the expensive things at home ,laptops etc) do not wear anything flashy or expensive and stay away from excessive boozing and drugs. Keep your mouth shut about what you have and do. Not just to the garotas but everybody over there, as you can see by the comments by some locals some don't think that highly of mongering gringos, even though they do the same thing.

Again folks have fun while in paradise but be careful and go with the program.
R.I.P to the victim. Hope those putas get whats coming to them.

Poucolouco

09-21-09, 20:52

Never come to a gun fight with only a spray can.

Bimbo Boy

09-22-09, 00:22

.. I doubt she intended to kill but more than likely didnt have a plan at all! and could only see $$$ but that said armed with a loaded gun! ... It could be possible the 'girlfiend' was also threatened by the other or didnt realise the extent of what was going to happen ...There is a very big difference in coming to Rio for mongering a few days, and in settling there. The difference is that instead of a moving target, you become a FIXED target, much easier to hit.

It is quite probable that the girl talked about her "rich gringo lover" to favela friends or lords, and that she was then given a gun.

When I am staying in a Copacabana hotel, I appreciate it when the working girl must check her ID at the front desk, and that when she leaves, the front desk calls me to check that everything is fine.

B.B.

JohnnyBraz

09-22-09, 07:47

Perkele

09-22-09, 14:41

By the way, I hope your Brazilian friends fall victim to a stray bullet from a favela.

You are entitled to have your opinion.

Good for you too.

Jan 156

09-22-09, 16:39

I'm unclear about the purpose of this thread. Is it to ensure Safety or to encourage more Crime?

:confused:

Exec Talent

09-22-09, 18:57

I'm unclear about the purpose of this thread. Is it to ensure Safety or to encourage more Crime?

:confused:
Let's do what we can to help each other stay safe. It is unfortunate that we live in a world where violence exists. Let's try to focus on ways to help each other avoid having any of it come our way.

When I first came to Rio, the guy from whom I rented my apartment (which had a safe) suggested locking up things like my laptop in my largest suitcase. He also suggested making friends with the doorman. He said if any girl tried to leave with a big suitcase she would get stopped. Good suggestions.

El Austriaco

09-22-09, 21:52

This might be a good time for us to put our collective heads together and come up with some Rio Safety Best Practices to be compiled and posted in Reports of Distinction.
As a matter of fact, there is one fairly comprehensive report on Safety Best Practices in RoD already, written by Sandman0011:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=624517&postcount=721

Personally, I have also written a very detailed one (back in 2004). Still, I think that everything holds just as true now as it did back then.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=321607&postcount=257

Specifically in respect of what happened to the Swiss guy, I'd just like to add the following. Not that a lot of detailed information is available as to what exactly transpired, but for me, the no-nos here are the following:

Single biggest mistake: Turning a hooker into his GF (been there, made that mistake, too; luckily, I am here to tell my story, though things could have gone very wrong). In other words, not only crossing the fine line between GFE and "GF" experience (http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=463740&postcount=1050) once, but fully emigrating to the hooker GF experience.

Big mistake No. 2 (IMHO): taking the hooker to his residence in the first place. I know, I know, some mongers are really into the overnighters and everything and like to stay in apartments, and I can see the benefits of it, absolutely. Still, the fact remains: she doesn't know where you live (plus what kind of belongings you have, your name, etc.), her chances of planning to come after you dwindle drastically. I used to take GDPs to my hotel, too, in the past, but since I stopped that and do them either on site or in love motels, I really don't miss the headaches over getting robbed, mugged etc. etc. in my home. I also don't worry any longer about getting rid of the girls once they get to clingy. If I want to see them again, I go to see them... not the other way around. Or to paraphrase Bimbo Boy: avoid becoming a fixed target as much as you can by protecting your privacy as much as possible. IMHO, this applies regardless of whether you live there permanently or are just visiting for a while.

Over the years, there have been several news stories about guys getting killed in their home by GDPs. A couple of years ago, if I remember correctly, a guy was drugged to death on Boa Noite Cinderella by a (TV) hooker in Ipanema. Then there was another Swiss guy who took a lot of money to Rio to buy his GDP GF an apartment and got killed over the cash. I also remember other cases, though not necessarily involving GDPs: a California guy who met a Brazilian over the Internet who was killed at her home by her and her BF when visiting her in Sao Paulo. And then there were some French people who were working at a NGO involved with street kids that got killed in their hotel by some of the kids they had been helping over years and years.

As I said, not all of these cases involved hookers, but the message is clear: be extra careful with people you don't know well. And if you bring them into the privacy of your home, just don't think that you are safe there. And after all, the GDPs, you never really know them well.

So, out of safety concerns, I'd say: don't bring a hooker to your home, ever. Be a hit-and-run guy. Hit that pussy and go home. Alone. Or even better: hit it and run.

EA

Amerioca

09-26-09, 06:40

EA hit the nail on it's head! However, if one goes there long enough, one will be jacked. It is inevitable. The questions is how serious.

Java Man

09-26-09, 15:17

"É a hora’ " It's time.

Friday Morning 9/25/09
Three bad guys attempts to steal a postal van in Tijuca, (NOT Barra de Tijuca.) Unfortunately for them a police patrol was passing by at the moment. Shots are fired and all but one manage to get away. Shot in the belly and brandishing a hand grenade, Sérgio Ferreira Pinto Júnior, 24, manages to get into a pharmacy and takes a female hostage. Hostage negotiators arrive on scene and after about an hour Sergio exits the pharmacy with his hostage. Negotiations continue on the street in front of media.

Unknown to Sergio, there is a police sniper across the street on the 4th floor.
The hostage is nervous and at a moment when she bends over to vomit, the order is given: "É a hora’." A single shot rings out and goes through Sergio's head. The hostage is rescued unharmed. ALL caught on video:

http://odia.terra.com.br/portal/

http://video.globo.com/Videos/Player/Noticias/0,,GIM1130842-7823-ASSALTO+NA+TIJUCA+CAUSA+MOBILIZACAO+NO+RIO+DE+JANEIRO,00.html

Photos:
http://odia.terra.com.br/portal/galerias/geradas
/O_DIA_ONLINE_acao_fulminante_da_pm_531.html

They even identify the police sniper! You'll never see coverage like that by US media.

Jan 156

09-26-09, 17:54

"É a hora’ " It's time.

Friday Morning 9/25/09
Three bad guys attempts to steal a postal van in Tijuca

Nice one! I liked the bit with the hat.

I've stayed in Tijuca and find it quite a safe area. Sometimes seen police patting street crims down as I walked to VM. But watching the video footage I couldn't help but think the TV companies must miss the day of Bus 174 . . . They totally love this crime-as-it-happens stuff!

Hughdad

09-26-09, 19:31

you'll never see coverage like that by us media.did you ever see the coverage of the guy that covered himself in amazing body armor and his associated was in a tank? he was walking alongside the tank and just firing round after round and rep001tering the police. then when he stopped and looked down at his weapon a police sniper made a perfect shot to the only exposed small space on the back of his head. they then storm the tank and took out his accomplice. was amazing footage

Jesuscola

09-27-09, 23:42

7:30 at night, some bald dirtbag just tried to rob me on the corner of N.S. Copacabana and Xavier da Silveira. He kept his right hand hidden the whole time. I kept speaking Portuguese even though he was trying to talk to me in English. I told him I had no money and kept walking. He asked how long I've been here and I told him years. He said, "Please, forgive me," in English and left me alone. But I had about 6 inches and 50 pounds on him.

Watch yourselves out there.

Eros74

09-28-09, 00:47

But I had about 6 inches and 50 pounds on him.

Watch yourselves out there.

Do you mean he left you alone when you showed him a knife or what else ?

He just was there on the corner or he was walking towards you ?

Happy it ended good and you was not robbed.

Jesuscola

09-28-09, 01:22

do you mean he left you alone when you showed him a knife or what else ?

he just was there on the corner or he was walking towards you ?

happy it ended good and you was not robbed.

i didn't have a knife. i meant that i was 6 inches taller and 50 lbs. heavier than him, though.

he stepped out of the shadows as i was walking down the street. he asked for a cigarette, and i said, "no." they generally do this first to get you to stop. i kept walking, so he had no choice but to follow along beside me. he kept trying to use english. i kept telling him i didn't understand and talking to him in portuguese only. he was nervous. this is not the first time this has happened to me. i handle it like this:

1) i keep calm and keep walking at the same speed.
2) i only talk to him in portuguese and say, "i don't understand" when he speaks english.
3) i treat him like i would treat someone who was trying to start a fire with wet wood--in other words, like he's doing something that plainly makes no sense. he's nervous. my reality is stronger than his.

i pulled a knife on one mugger years ago (i told him, "eu não sou seu 'friend.'"), pepper sprayed another duo one night, got in one's face and cussed him out in port. behind help (when i suddenly found my pepper had stopped spraying), and now two i treated like the above and they apologized. (the other time it was two guys, and one guy said, "next time just say, 'hey, i'm brazilian!'" and gave me the thumbs up. ridiculous.)

i'm not particularly advising anyone else do this. i don't want to see anyone get stabbed. it's just what i do.

Jan 156

09-28-09, 08:12

I discussed about this murder with my brasilian friends and all of them were saying that all mongers who come to Brasil to do GDPs deserve to die. Not one single soul felt any compassion for this swiss guy.
Hey maybe ease up guys? Perkele didn't say it was his opinion. The idea that it is the general view of Brasilians is rather OTT. But it does help to balance the equally twattish view that some people form that 'prostitution is different here - it's completely acceptable.' No it's not. It's maybe accepted as a fact of life. And a necessary business tolerance in Copa that makes money from said gringos. But there's plenty of Brasilians who are as bigoted about it as politicians and bible-thumpers back home.

The other thing is that we think it is 'everywhere' cos we scope out the city on that basis. There's plenty of Brasilians who don't give prostitution any thought, especially if they stay out if Copa. Though even Copa has a very respectable middle class that closes its eyes to such things. You could hear not dissimilar 'sentiments' expressed back home in a US bible belt or a UK pub frequented by Harriet Harman -type illiberals. It doesn't mean such people would pick up a loaded gun and go punter hunting. But punting is not a respectable hobby. If you want to be loved, maybe consider organising soup runs for the homeless.

Sorry about the rant. But it doesn't make much sense to vent one's anger about public intolerance against another forum member, does it?

One Wing Low

09-28-09, 08:49

The week I was in Copacabana, there were news of a few tourists robberies at knife point on the beach in broad day light.

One night I got out of the internet cafe right behind the Copacabana hotel at about 1AM. I was on my way back to the Copacabana which was right there. I was very cautious but never thought anyone could rob me along the white-painted walls of the Cobacapana.

It was dark and raining lightly. I stopped at a restaurant full of people to buy a pack of cigarette. When I was half way to the Copacabana hotel, a black guy appeared out of nowhere and grabbed my collar. He was hanging on to me with all his strength while mumbling something repetitively in Portugeese. I was not sure if he was begging or threatenting me.

I shouted to him to let me go and called out to policia, but he kept hanging on. I grabbed his arms and turned him around and around to disorienting him. At this time 3 to 4 other black guys came out of the dark and ran toward us.

Thoughts raced through my mind. I was really scared of being knifed by a bunch of thugs in the midlle of the night in Rio and noone knew where I was. I could die alone in the rain on this dark street in Rio.

I used all my strength to knock the guy's hands off my shirt and started running fast towards the main street. They chased me a while then gave up.

I came to a police booth and reported it. The guy there talked on the radio. Soon 2 police cars arrived with a sergeant. They took my complaint then offered to drive me around looking for the assailants. I declined. They must have gone away. The police scoured the area in their patrol cars. They posted a patrol car at that street corner for the next 2 days and night, flashing its beacons.

I talked to the restaurant owner the next day, telling him what happened. He was really scared. He said I was lucky I did not get killed that night.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Perkele

09-28-09, 12:20

Hey maybe ease up guys? Perkele didn't say it was his opinion. The idea that it is the general view of Brasilians is rather OTT. But it does help to balance the equally twattish view that some people form that 'prostitution is different here - it's completely acceptable.' No it's not. It's maybe accepted as a fact of life. And a necessary business tolerance in Copa that makes money from said gringos. But there's plenty of Brasilians who are as bigoted about it as politicians and bible-thumpers back home.

The other thing is that we think it is 'everywhere' cos we scope out the city on that basis. There's plenty of Brasilians who don't give prostitution any thought, especially if they stay out if Copa. Though even Copa has a very respectable middle class that closes its eyes to such things. You could hear not dissimilar 'sentiments' expressed back home in a US bible belt or a UK pub frequented by Harriet Harman -type illiberals. It doesn't mean such people would pick up a loaded gun and go punter hunting. But punting is not a respectable hobby. If you want to be loved, maybe consider organising soup runs for the homeless.

Sorry about the rant. But it doesn't make much sense to vent one's anger about public intolerance against another forum member, does it?

Finally someone got it.

I've been living in Brasil for several years and I mostly live aongst them. Believe me, they look down every single *****monger. They would do just about anything to be able to stop sexual tourism and there is not much compassion in their minds for poor mongers who get themselves in trouble with GDPs.

My opinion is, *****s won't make good girlfriends. Nice toys, that one never shouldn't keep too long. We're paying for them to GO AWAY in the morning.

Hughdad

09-28-09, 20:28

Poucolouco

09-28-09, 20:48

Poucolouco

09-29-09, 23:39

28 Sept 2009, For the second time in three months, around five criminals armed with guns, and brandishing a granade, invaded the French Restaurant “Le Ble” on rua Xavier of the Silveira. The gang herded 15 clients and staff into the kitchen where they were robbed of purses and personal property while other members of the group stole the cash register.

The robbery occurred around midnight and lasted around 15 minutes. The group fled in a van, with the marking of Rosina. Witnesses said that a VW Golf auto and a motorcycle gave cover to the assailants as they fled.

Elsewhere in Copacabana three armed bandits wearing uniforms of the Gas Company (CEG) – raided a condominium at rua Francisco Otaviano número 92 (edificio Solar da Praia, Arporador.) At 8:30 a.m. The gang managed to fool the doorman after stating that they would measure the gas consumption of the building. They locked him in the bathroom and proceded to the seventh floor. Then for the next hour and a half the trio methodically robbed apartments of electronics, cash and jewelry. They succeded in raiding eight of the 14 apartments in the building. At least 15 persons were victims of the gang. Officers of the Battalion of Operations of the Special Police (Bope) swept the apartments in search of the thieves, but they were not found.

Eros74

09-30-09, 00:19

...At least 15 persons were victims of the gang....
Do you mean 15 died ?!

How is it possible nobody called the police in 1 hour and half during the time they were there ?

Just a question for the more expert than me about Rio, such a robbery happens everywhere in Rio or mostly in copacabana ?

Poucolouco

09-30-09, 00:51

Do you mean 15 died ?!

How is it possible nobody called the police in 1 hour and half during the time they were there ?

Just a question for the more expert than me about Rio, such a robbery happens everywhere in Rio or mostly in copacabana ?

No one was injured, 15 residents were robbed. As they robbed each apartment they took the victims to a first floor apartment where they were held hostage until the whole operation was completed. The doorman was locked in a bathroom and could not call.

This happens all over Rio. It is rather rare for such a spree of frequent violent crime to occur in Copacabana. Mostly there are small grab and run type of robberies, trafficants battling each other and police raids on the trafficants. The thieves are getting bolder, ignorring the fact they are captured on surveillance cameras all over the city. I believe the governor will soon declare open season on these criminals, many of whom are well known to the police.

Lorenzo

09-30-09, 05:22

Do you mean 15 died ?!

How is it possible nobody called the police in 1 hour and half during the time they were there ?

Just a question for the more expert than me about Rio, such a robbery happens everywhere in Rio or mostly in copacabana ?
I think he meant that 15 people were robbed. Robberies like this seem to be not that unusual in Rio. When I was in Rio a few years ago, I read in "O Globo" that a gang of men dressed in business suits showed up at a luxury high rise in Leblon. They strongarmed the security guard who had copies of all the apartment keys in his office, locked him in a closet, then spread out among the different floors proceeded to let themselves into all or most of the apartments and rob the occupants. One elderly man, a holocaust survivor incidentally, resisted and died of a heart attack. It appears that you can't feel secure anywhere in Rio.

Sperto

09-30-09, 06:07

Just a question for the more expert than me about Rio, such a robbery happens everywhere in Rio or mostly in copacabana ?
These "arrastãos" are nothing new, but they used to be more common in the nineties and happened in Copacabana many times.

Poucolouco

09-30-09, 17:44

Here are security camera videos from Le Ble Noir robbery.

Images from security cameras of Le Ble Noir show four young men, well dressed and appearing to be 20 to 25 years, armed with pistols and a grenade invading the restaurant. A fifth man remained outside, but soon enters. Patrons and staff members are confined between the bar and the kitchen. Two bandits enter the office, where they find R$ 3 thousand in cash. Meanwhile, other bandits threaten the hostages who are ordered to deposit their money, credit cards, watches and cellulars into a napsack carried by one of the robbers. Before they flee, the bandits break the monitor and some security cameras, but the images had already been recorded.

"Three days after the first assault, they called my cellular, threatening me and said that they were going to assault us again. They are challenging the authorities and nothing happens. Because of this, I am now providing private security services for the restaurant", said one of the owners of the crepery.
http://odia.terra.com.br/portal/rio/html/2009/9/bando_assalta_creperia_em_copacabana_37911.html

For three months the Zona Sul has suffered a wave of assaults. On July 1, bandits invaded a Japanese restaurant, in Copacabana. On July 29 and Sept 28, the Le Blé Noir and a condominium on rua Francisco Otaviano in Arpoador. On August 25, a gang assaulted residents of a building on rua Rua Cinco de Julho. Also there were assaults in buildings on ruas Piragibe Frota Aguiar, Assis Brasil and Barata Ribeiro.

According to the Civil Police, there are at least three gangs operating in Zona Sul. The groups are comprised of criminals from Rocinha, Cantagalo (Ipanema) e Chapéu Mangueira (Leme)

The month of July of this year showed a worrisome increase in residential robberies in the capital city. Compared with the same period of 2008, there was an increase of 87% in robberies in Rio de Janeiro - 24 cases last year and 45 this year. In the Rio State, the growth was of 31%, with 129 occurrences this year, compared to 89 in 2008.

Marcop 12

09-30-09, 19:36

Interesting report. Did this happen recently? I can vouch for at least one September robbery, Fri 25th 830pm, 1 block from Copacabana Palace, my Amigo and his brazillian amigo were on route to mud bug (1st time there) got mixed up on directions from Balcony and instead of taking the first right, contiuned past copa palace, inbetween that block, got approached from 3 banditos, knife held to stomach, whilst other rifled his pockets, got away with camera, couple hundered R$ & just purchaced vitamin V supplys! Several people going around, not broad day light but still in the early zone of 2030!

Brazil Specialist

10-01-09, 03:39

Do you mean 15 died ?!

How is it possible nobody called the police in 1 hour and half during the time they were there ?

Just a question for the more expert than me about Rio, such a robbery happens everywhere in Rio or mostly in copacabana ?

I don't think 15 died

All hostages were held at gun point and locked up somewhere. Additionally, they are threatened, in the most recent robbery they photographed all victims and told them they would be killed if they cooperated with police.

In a recent robbery, a sharp shooter killed the robber point blank, that is the only way to go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFqG7f64YlY
moment of the deadly shot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRGZp9lN9dA
entire scene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSuKe-bxv-A

Sperto

10-01-09, 05:52

I don't think 15 died.

No one was injured, 15 residents were robbed.

I think he meant that 15 people were robbed.
I think everybody understood by now that nobody died. :)

In a recent robbery, a sharp shooter killed the robber point blank...

Sérgio Ferreira Pinto Júnior, 24, manages to get into a pharmacy and takes a female hostage... A single shot rings out and goes through Sergio's head...
BS, you're a bit late. ;)

One Wing Low

10-01-09, 07:07

It happened in March 2007.

The Copacabana Palace hotel takes up the whole block. I just walked out of the hotel and went to the internet cafe behind it to check email. After I got out of the internet cafe, I walked 3 doors away to the restaurant to buy cigarette. I was less than 500 feet away from the Copacabana Palace.

It was past mid night. There was no traffic or people on the streets. You think it was practical to call and wait for a cab to go 500 feet?

In the day time, there were homeless people sleeping everywhere around the Copacabana Palace. Crimes stroke too close to home. That's why it scared me.

I have been reading the same advice here forever - take a taxi everywhere at night.

Brazil Specialist

10-01-09, 10:43

Brazil Specialist

10-01-09, 11:13

Well I have spent over 18 months total in Rio, over many trips. I am not a small man. Ex pro boxer/ turned body builder. A few times I have had problems. Once a man tried to rob me at 10 to 11 at night in centro, with a knife. I knocked him out, the jumped on his head a good five times. People around didn't stop when he tried to rob me, but they all stopped and looked when I jumped on his head. I had another drama in pavon (favela) having a beer at a bar about 2 thirds off the way up the hill (hence, I don't dress like that if I go into a favela). I had a fight at the bar with some brazilian man who just wanted to pick a fight. 6 men come down on motor cycles with 2 way radio's and guns. I phoned a friend who lives in the favela. It was sorted without any drama. The gangs actually bashed the man who started the fight. All was good, I took my mate out from there after. Tried to get him a women, but no help girl would go with him. I have even woken up in the morning in a favela on a few times, with a women from there. Never a drama. People in Rio are opertunists, if they see an easy chance they will take it. Women and street hoods. Favelas are different. If you show respect, they will not dis-respect. I like to see how real people live. I have sat at many parties in the favelas, even as far out as the complex alomon. (very different from the copa favela's). Remember one thing. When you fear people. They prey on your fear.

Well, your chance of being robbed are 1% instead of 5% for a regular size guy. And your chance of dying in a robbery are 30% instead of 0.5% for a regular calm non-resisting guy.

I know stories of Jiu Jitsu black belts resisting a 12 year old kid and getting shot from behind by the kid's accomplice.

I have seen guys that wear gold chains, yes. They were vice crime lords ( bicheiros) that could be seen with 4 big black dudes as body guards, as big mean as you but real hardened criminals. Plus, any Brazilian thug probably knows his face or figures out the situation as soon as he sees the 4 thick gold chains. If he would not, he most likely would be killed very slowly.

I know first hand of a story where a girlfriend of such a guy was robbed at her home. when the robbers found out about the boy friend, the fell onto their knees, asked for forgiveness and carried everything back to her house.

Now if you really know some favela rat with gangster connections, you might be somewhat safe while on their turf, but obviously not safe enough or else nobody would ever have messed with you.

Calling a friend who lives in ANOTHER favela might be extreme danger. If he lives in a favela ruled by a competing crime gang, then just mentioning him might endanger you. Also it is a little late to phone once the armed group has closed in on you, they probably did not want to pick a fight with you anyway, you were lucky.

Now if the other party you fought with were pals of the the favela crime lord, you probably would not be alive to be writing here.

Or maybe they would leave a gringo alive, because headlines about dead gringoes in the New York Times disrupt regular favela drug business because in such cases police will create nuisance.

Brazil Specialist

10-01-09, 11:40

I was leaving L'uomo late one night to go to Santa Clara and many people had warned me to take a taxi, etc. As I was walking down Barata Ribeiro feeling quite a bit nervous I saw a very old woman walking her poodle. Then I thought, "Jeeze, I have to relax a little."

For the record I have been conned or attempted to be conned several times in Rio by cab drivers but never mugged on the street. Note I am not suggesting doing stupid things like stumbling around drunk down dark alleys.

The old lady probably is carrying R$ 5.

The old lady has a poodle. What will the poodle do in case of a robbery? bark like hell and try to bite the robber.

So who thinks it is worth shooting a poodle in order to get R$ 5? the bullets cost more then that. Even a drugged robber will pick another victim. Like a dumb gringo who feels invulnerable and does not listen to the advice of locals, wears R$ 250 Nike watches (I know that was another guy), but usually has R$ 400 handy in case he stops by a termas.

But still, if I were an old lady, I would not walk at night in Copacabana, even with a poodle. Maybe with a doberman.

I myself am trying to figure out where I go when I get older, Copacabana is not the right place. Some small town 300 miles away, for example.

In 30 years in Rio, I have never been robbed, escaped very few attempts without much difficulty. (jumping out of someone's way when he approached me, etc). The worst robbery attempt was by a prostitute I was dumb enough to help a few times.

I have only been robbed by police (one advice: never ever let police into your home, don't even open the door. Even if they have a search warrant, let them kick in the door. By constitution your home is inviolable, unless there is immediate danger. So if a low life pro acts up, make sure you kick her ass out of your apartment, so they have no excuse for immediate danger. I once wrote an article about these issues, I wish someone had told me earlier)

And I am always getting robbed by the justice system and the lawyers (advice: never buy property here, rent! Get money at the atm and maybe get a bank account to stash away a few hundred dollars. This way you get no labor law suits, no government fines, no common law marriage alimony suites, etc )

Brazil Specialist

10-01-09, 12:32

Absolutely fantastic report, I hope and presume it has been marked a report of distinction!

*** sorry, when I posted this, I thought that there would be a LINK to the original post. Without an easy way to get to the original post by Austriaco, my comments do not make much sense.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=321607&postcount=257

Think twice or more about taking favela tours: apparently, there have been good reviews of organized favela tours (I only know about tours of Rocinha and another, smaller favela), and the first time I was in Rio in 2002, they were widely advertised, although I didn’t have time to take one. This time, when I was really interested, they were no longer widely advertised - my hotel had a sign saying that they had been suspended indefinitely.

I thought I was the only one saying that. Exactly, what on earth are these favela tourists going to do if an unannounced war starts, either by a police invasion or by a rival gang invasion. Very very irresponsible to do these tours.

Don’t ever ever even consider going into a favela by yourself. As a matter of fact, the favela might be giving you a first taste of itself in more ways than you think anyway in Copacabana or in the Zona Sul: in the form of aggressive sellers, pushy girls, thieves, robbers, and drug dealers roaming the streets and the water-front. Or simply due to their vicinity.

I just recently, after decades in Rio, entered a favela, the favela in Leme. Now that favela has been pacified, permanently occupied by police. I asked my way at every single corner. Everywhere there were full police cars with 4 policemen each, and I always asked them if there was any potential trouble whatsoever.

Also, there is a hotel favelinha, in the favela in the backyard of the BOPE (elite squad) that these guys use as their training ground. Probably that place is 10 times safer then Copacabana streets.

But in both cases, you need major knowledge to decide it is actually safe.

Cabs. After dark, always use cabs, no matter how short the distance. One of the ex-pats I know in Rio would always use a cab from Help to go to his apartment at night, which is no more than a 2 minute walk away. So if you’re worried about the extra few Reais you might spend, don’t go to Rio in the first place. In hotels, have the reception arrange a cab for you. In the street, take only licensed cabs, no pirate ones, and always insist on using a meter (taximetro)

100% correct. But still, to this day people post that this is not needed, either because they were marines, ex heavyweight boxers, or because they saw an old lady with a dog (notice: with a dog), walking on the street.

At 2 am, certainly go nowhere without a taxi.

Police Matters

Carry along a photocopy of your passport, including your entry card, in case you are asked to show some ID. Some Rio ex-pats have told me that they get a copy certified at a local notary’s office for a minimal charge. Except for banks, this is accepted everywhere – including by the police. Sounds good to me.

If you get stopped in a police blitz, don’t panic. Blitzes happen often, mostly late at night on weekends, and preferably on roads that are known as routes for drug trafficking; I’ve also seen several coming from downtown, in the Flamengo area. Once, I got stopped in São Conrado while traveling in a cab. There were at least three police cars present, with a minimum of six police officers. The area was well-lit, and the entire search of the cab and my person was done in the presence of at least two cops and witnesses at the same time. Everything out in the open, very legal, no problem whatsoever.

Although the Rio police is reputed to be very corrupt, in case there seems to be some sort of trouble with them, do not offer a bribe, which could make things much much worse for you. Cops that are looking for a quick hand-out are generally rather open about offering a quick fix and will take the first step in asking for the cervejinha (tip). Once, I was stopped at night, after attending a concert, in a cab at Ilha do Governador, out by the airport, in a pretty dark street. There was only one police car, only two cops, and they insisted on talking to me separately from the girl that was with me, then proceeded to interview her, with me waiting in the car. As she later told me, they alleged that my copy of the passport was not good enough, and that they would have to fine me. She said well, let’s go to the next police station to sort it out. They quickly offered to just forget about the matter with a small tip, she said no, let’s go to the next police station. They said OK, you keep half of his fine, she said no, let’s go to the next police station. Didn’t pay anything, and they let us go, ultimately.

here I disagree a little. Once you haggled them down, you probably create good will if you pay a small amount. Definitely, if you did something wrong. Now, a non-notarized copy of a passport is not really something wrong, so with the help of a street-wise girl you might actually take your risks and refuse.

Do carry a little bit of cash on you at all times, however, even if you don’t think you’ll need it, just in case you’re being robbed. At least, there’s something that you can give a potential robber. 50 Reais should more than suffice.

El Austriaco
That extra cash issue is also often misunderstood. Unless if you are in swimming trunks, people expect a gringo to have money. And you do not want to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) them off, screw up their expectations, would you?

Brazil Specialist

10-01-09, 12:45

i personally walk 4am in the morning from help to contsante ramos, never a problem. to many people worry to much in rio and it spoils there trip. your main concern off getting robbed is by the police.

don't give bad advice to people. people get robbed when crossing miguel lemos on the way to miguel lemos 8. do not walk anywhere after 2 am or so. 10 pm you might take a risk to walk 1-2 blocks, but even that depends on how much you look like a gringo victim and how sober you are.

if i lived at miguel lemos 8, i would pay a security to escort me over. these robbers know exactly who to mess with and who not to mess with.

but please, people who don't know enough should not prevent newbies from following expert advice.

but, to the newbies, if you really follow expert advice, you are reasonably safe.

now i myself, i might get myself killed, because i probably would resist a young street kid robbing me. and, as i said, his accomplice might have a gun and shoot. it is hard to follow all advice.

of course, the occasional fool who resists and fights, makes things safer for all of us. if nobody resisted, everyone would rob all the time. i had a girl friend being robbed, in the afternoon daylight in front of help, by a little **** street girl who just pretended to have a weapon under her shirt. this little girl would not mess with me or our special forces heavyweight friends.

it is amazing, people think they know better. i had a guy disobey my personal advice and walk 10 blocks at midnight. he got away with it. now the guy should know better: he was the boss of the second oldest mongering board (maybe the oldest one), had travelled over the world for decades. and still he would not take a taxi. stupid.

Sperto

10-01-09, 14:36

I just recently, after decades in Rio, entered a favela, the favela in Leme. Now that favela has been pacified, permanently occupied by police. I asked my way at every single corner. Everywhere there were full police cars with 4 policemen each, and I always asked them if there was any potential trouble whatsoever.
IMO opinion it seems paranoid asking such a lot of questions. Not to mention calling a lot of attention.

I guess you went to Babilônia. Babilônia is a very calm favela after the police occupation. Before the occupation it was quite calm as well. Just a few armed guys who used to hang around not bothering anybody.

Chapéu Mangueira, next to Babilônia, is not that calm.

Sperto

10-01-09, 14:39

Stay safe in Rio. It has been discussed here many times. Many good (and some bad) advices have been given on the subject.

* Just use common sense.
* Be aware of the risk of getting robbed and take your precautions.
* Stop acting paranoid and frightened, it will just get you into trouble. Muggers can smell your fear just like dogs, and then they will bite you.

Bow-wow!

Poucolouco

10-01-09, 19:51

Marcop 12

10-01-09, 22:10

my favorite security\stash item i purchaced. i like big solid belt and was in need of one and was looking through ebay came across a top quality crocodile leather belt and at the time a year or so ago had never seen this before with a built inside zip on the belt to stash your cash in. despite being good if unfortunate enough to be robbed, it also good to stash your 50r or 100r notes, and can easily be dipped into when your beer tokens or ho tokens are running low and always just keep a float of 100r or something in your pockets..gdps know only too well where the stash places on jeans and apartments etc and give em half a chance and your cash will go but a belt around a pair of jeans none or very little chance of getting anywhere near it..

for me money belt is good all round and highly practical as i always were one! as stashed in the socks, im always taking them off as im always fucking so a no no, jonny pocket well thats for the emergency rubber! also first place gdp, bandito will check..

also added bonus was only a few weeks after returning from a trip i decided to stash some euros for another trip and realsied i had a $r500 fold of 50s and another 2 100r stashed so my first termas visit next trip covered :)

maybe all you guys are wearing already and i was in dark times when i first seen them :) im also risking exposing my stashes but for the millions of rio tourists annually i think i will be in the minority with my belt so for you who like me hadnt heard of them their worth every penny, possablitys to get out of many a scrape..

Marcop 12

10-01-09, 23:46

This happened on my first trip, first night in Rio a few years back, I was such an amador its funny looking back! But I soon learned the hard way but in my defence I hadnt done any research and certainly hadnt read ISG or this section. I was just the typical green gringo.

Arrived in Rio with all the latest gadgets and accesorys all prepared for 3 week vacation, brand new ipod, brand new bang & olfusen head phones, top or range sony mini-compact camera, top of the range travel speakers, top of the range cell phone, had some other shit but these were my main items involved in the below. Obviosuly I had locked all these items in the free hotel safe with my credit cards, money, passport etc. And well hidden the key, I was prepared!

Arrived early paris flight, staying in promonade hotel in Leblon, went for a walk didn't go far until I found bar jobi (well 100 yards. After getting stuck into the early choppes was waiting for my friend to meet me, couple hours he arrived and then went for tour and some lunch time cocktails, proceeded to check out balcony on caiparina by now, proceeded to Irish Pub, Lord Jim, Shenanigans. Back to hotel 7ish for 8pm meet in lobby for night time action.

Couple bars then to TA by this time were both pretty smashed having great time, approching midnight decides to go into help (first time, first day, didn't know what to expect) We gets in, pretty dead, my amigo goes to get tickets, on return I had been accosted and being pulled to the dance floor for a split second of madness solo dancing in emtpy nightclub LOL Amigo intervenes and gets rid of my hunter. Finishes drinks same thing happens again, he gets drinks I been targeted, this time he left standing with the red bulls and vodka looking for me!

Only I've had no idea whats going and I've left with some 2 bit ho, without telling my amigo, to this day I've no idea how I even knew name of hotel or how I managed to co-ordinate the whole logistics of returning to hotel.

But anyways in room, gets down to buisness must have crashed out, woke up as she was getting dressed saying she going back to the club, which I then realsied shit my amigo (veteran of brazil, although left me to experience and work out help for myself, normally I would take this in my stride) so decided to get dressed and go back also, then remember her asking for money and remember thinking WTF, so proceeded to find my well stashed key (as no $R on me at all), open my grotto of goods in the safe and crash out! The rest is history!

Woke up seen door ajar glanced around spied safe door open and it all came thundering back to me! Everything gone, but on silver lining I had my bank cards and credit cards and passport which could easily have gone as well. It was an inconvience oh and not only that my cell phone was UK contract, I tried to cancel it but failed, and thought had sim pin on (only phone pin) so she couldn't use, my mistake gets home my £500 credit limit maxed out! Although it was an expensive learning curve I think its probaly payed its self off by now as never been involved in such naivity and stupidlty in Rio since! And never lost or had anything stolen to speak off.

Another interesting point when I caught up with my amigo in the morning he asked if she had signed in as Promande is top professional hotel chain etc, so she definetly had, on speaking with recpetion first they denied it and said no record, so this got heated discussion until they admitted she had so I asked to see the slip etc to prove it, so he flashed it for a second and took it back and said I would have to get the police which at that point and their strange behaviour decided to move on and leave it as something wasnt right.

Although this is totally all the behaviour everyone should never participate in Rio theres several lessons to be learned from my first day in Rio. (which I'm sure you will all have quickly seen the pattern emerging, Thrown in the deepest end. But after much thought and discussion on it, never came close to such nonsense again.

On another safety note, I like to travel around basically bar hop whether its Copa, Ipanema, Leblon maybe Lapa so I'm always in Taxis everywhere directly to where I'm going, for me its a total luxuary walking to a side kerb and within seconds of flagging a cab and your in, as in my parts it is taxi ranks only and they don't stop in the street and only designated ranks etc so I like the fact I can move rapid to A B C so walking places is not an issue and risking robbery.

Also I certainly never found the need or want to stay anywhere near HELP, for me that is worst location and I have no idea why such demand unless as it appears your vacation is purley to help. With safety in mind and the general riff raff that congregates in the area in all shapes and sizes theres no way I could think of having all that on my door step, I haven't really enjoyed help for some time but if I do want to go then theres the whole experience of getting in and leaving is just too much to be on your gaurd, not my idea of vacation and all the back streets, late night places are just dodgy full stop.

I think leaving help is similar to what some of that celebs must feel like with paparatzi approcahing from all angles, hand movents and generally not knowing what the fuck is going on.

Also I mix it up in Rio hit regular top Rio clubs at weekends etc, theres zero chance of getting a non-gdp back to your apartment in help zone, so for me is leme area of copa if in copa or ipanema again taxis everywhere no problem I just see it part of expenses and if your paying a GDP $R300 for a fuck one of them less should cover a few weeks of night time taxi fares! One robbery will amount to more than $R300 or a lot more! Also walking around copa at night theres nothing to see it generally pitch black! Go do the copacabana walk through the day time.

Although I've never had any issues of violence myself I'm well aware of the possabilitys its like putting a shitty padlock on an expensive mountain bike its there as a deterent and the opperutnist thief can't steal it but if a thief really wanted it, its easy to steal, so if I don't wear the watch and flash any shit and catch cabs around its a similar deterent, still I could get robbed at some point but my chances and odds are narrowed down to oppertunity which I keep to a minimum (these days.

Have fun

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Jan 156

10-02-09, 09:10

The point about El Austriaco's report is, as it says, it's a primer. The sort of stuff to get between the ears on your first few trips to Rio. You can ignore the advice at your peril or you can ignore some of it because you understand the fundamentals of Rio very well. I say Rio, since when I was in, say, Belem, I felt I had to learn quite a few new things when it came to safety.*

After you've been going for a little while though, the main thing you might start to differ on, and with good reason if you do, is using buses. El Austriaco's report is not based on using them, as far as I can see. It's based on not using them on account of a few reports. Nice Brasilians will worry about tourists and tell them not to use buses. Tourists can get confused with the bus system and there is some tiny danger. But it is minute. The bus system in Rio is enormous. The roads are dangerous. Take care. But for the thousands of journeys of buses there might be only an odd hold up. I have only ever witnessed one - and that only an attempted one and which was averted by swift action on the part of the driver. You can get robbed on a bus like you can get run over crossing a road - as El Austriaco points out - and much easier than at home. In fact I think I am more likely to die in a traffic accident in Brasil than in any other way. But I live in Copa for months at a time most years and I get buses the same as Brasilians from every walk of life do, and use the same common sense when travelling on them. There's no way I'm getting taxis twice a day into Centro and again in the evening. It would be over the top for me personally. And having seen so many traffic accidents (including one outside my apartment - photos available) - my common sense tells me that a taxi comes off worse in a collision than a bus. I also suspect that a bus hold up is more likely to be reported and talked about than a taxi hold up is.*

Similarly, when I'm in Copa for months at a time and am a night owl anyway I am not going to get a taxi every time I walk a hundred yards. The only time I've ever been robbed was walking a few yards to the Metro, on a busy street, and in broad daylight. I analysed the experience and learnt a lot from it. There is no point walking around paranoid - as Sperto said, robbers can smell it. Easy.*

If you use buses, consider the route, the area it's travelling through or from/to. See how easy it is to move away from someone. Careful if you are showing anything openly (such as money or a camera). Don't draw attention to yourself. You should know that stuff already by the time you use buses. All the usual applies. And know how to use the buses of course, fares and so on. The main tip I can think of is, watch who gets off at the same time. Say I'm getting off at VM one evening, the main street is a bit quiet, and a very dodgy looking fellow suddenly decides to get off as well. I maybe change my mind, sit down, and get off at the next stop instead. I often try to get up at the last minute on such trips.*

For walking about Copa, I'd say similar rules (in addition to all the other sensible advice) applies. If someone looks dodgy, avoid them. Go into a shop. Cross the street. Even go the other way. If you are walking about late at night, know your route intimately, including what's open at that time of night. Avoid dark streets and Atlantica where you can. Scope out who's around using your peripheral vision. Cross over where necessary. On NS Copa, use the side of the street with bus stops by preference. There's buses all night and often regular people at the stops. If you're chatting with a friend or a garota, at least one of you needs to be scoping.

If you really are an ex-marine, like whatsis name who posts on here, you can work out your own rules. You are at a peak of professional fitness and alertness and we hope you don't get shot. But for anyone else, relying on being a black belt or a tough guy is a dice roll.*

I'll just add some stuff on apartment safety if I may, just in case it helps. Just this year some gringos move in next to me and are in a bit of a tizz that their room safe doesn't work. I suggested they lock stuff in their rucksack (any good rucksack has sturdy locks) and lock the rucksack to a pipe or something immoveable, and preferably out of sight. As with street smarts, you want something rob-able that is fairly easy to find and your other stuff somewhere else. There's two levels. Protecting yourself against casual theft (a dodgy girl) and protecting yourself against forced robbery or with threats or while you are out (in the event criminals get past security at the front entrance). Put yourself in the mind of a thief and imagine what you would do in your apartment. Then revise your plans and do it again. And there's nothing wrong with double locking your door even when you're at home.

There are no absolute guarantees. You have to accept that, I think. But if you make yourself, your attitude, your possessions and your living quarters as safe as you can, you should then be able to relax. And not walk around in constant fear. * * * *

Jan 156

10-02-09, 10:13

I remember in Belo one afternoon, just after arriving (by bus) and I'm in one if the exclusive designer stores in the upmarket area buying an expensive teashirt. The assistants are falling about laughing as I retrieve money from different hiding places on my person. I say, I stay in Rio, not Belo. They understand immediately and stop laughing. It was momentarily embarrassing as I hadn't changed gears quickly. But I was also staying in the rougher 20 reis a punt area of Belo anyway. Horses for courses as they say.

Marcop 12

10-02-09, 20:56

After my report few days ago of an amigo being robbed one block from Copacabana Palace last Friday night 20: 30.

Just off the phone with another amigo he was futher down Av Atlantica on route to meet someone, some guy came up tapping a cigarette, he said no, kept walking, guy trying to make friendly conversation rather than a threat, he then asking if spoke english etc until made some joke and managed to use this to put his arm around my amigos shoulder, with his other arm inside his own jacket and said give me your money I have a gun! My amigo can look after himself and quick reaction grabbed his arm and run like fuck away shouting he had a gun!

As much as he wasnt engaging in conversation this guy wasnt posing a threat so as with all other advice do whatever it takes to not get involved in any shape way or form. I get a feel for the zone around me I'm walking in (if walking but obviosuly you have to walk certain places) and never make eye contact most of them just [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) you off wanting something or to engage in some shit talk, basically decoy type and hold you up and it all just stems from there. These guys got nothing to do all day everyday for years and years just hanging around practicing and perfecting their art of robbing. They got all their escape routes planned out (as they used them 100s of times) know exactly how long it takes and time every step of their planned target as thats basically ALL they do all day EVERY day.

I think reading about the circumstances of different robberies gives you more food for thought and just puts you on gaurd. I don't anyway but the likes of giving a cigarette to someone is common elsewhere but certainly I wouldn't stop, go into my pocket, head down, opening a pack to give one in Rio so maybe others by reading reports like these with remember and keep on walking! Don't gave them anything, if you want to give anything theres plenty of stationary crashed out hobos to give your useless loose change to.

I remeber reading a report about the shit slingers I had never came across them before at the time, but due to that report I had just read I was aware walking down copa I had been selected by the little shit, I knew he was gonna try it but kept walking, I kinda played him for almost copa palace to sofitel where I was running late for cocktails so I was walking fast anyways. Then all of a sudden I just stopped ran across Av atlantica and in middle looked caught him stopped and just looking over, he was well sussed out, but if not for report I would have defiently been late for the cocktails! And a whole lot of possible hassle and SHIT on my shoes.