China Women - Opinions and Advice

[Sammon]

I read that the KTV can be a lot of fun --but also isn't the KTV a kind of built-in rip off? It is reasonable to think that the girls are pressed by management to get the guys drinking and re-ordering drinks. So a guy just can't expect to take a girl back to his hotel any time soon. He has to sit, chat, but especially order some kind of minimum. Can anybody tell me about how long you got to go through this process before taking your booty back to your lair?

Why not I go to a sauna or elsewhere? Sure but it seems that the girls at the KTV might be socially a cut above girls at the other places. Some fellow members have commented that girls at saunas, etc. probably service many more men than do KTV girls. If so, then KTV girls probably have a lower chance of having STDs. Why risk it if you don't have to? So that's why I've thought of KTV.

When last there, I saw police blocking entrance to a closed KTV in GZ. A Chinese told me that the police are making them close early. The same for dance clubs because of the upcoming Asian games. Is there also a crackdown in DG?
In China everything is negotiable including KTV prices. You can negotiate how many beers , how many hours, how many companions etc. If you are single there is a common area where you can sit and have your drinks. Generally I have not seen anybody come there and refused to drink. KTV make money with the drinks and food and ofcourse girl's money.
Do not be fooled into thinking these girls works for the KTV exclusively although some do. Even these KTV girls are availalble from the street mamasan.
When I was living in Shenzhen, I had some trusted mamasans who used to deliver regular girls who want to hook on the side. These are generally not very experience but made the best GFE. Not many girls in this group are 8 or 9. If they are 8 or 9 they can make more money by going to KTV at night.
KTV encourages all freelance girls to go to their club and stand in the line up. If they are picked well and good. If they are not they back out in the streets looking either by themselves or through mamasan. Do not think KTV girls are special and only go high end. In KTV looks are everything and KTV will not allow girls who are not good looking or girls who are not well dressed. It is bad for their reputation. I used to go with my Chinese friends and had some best looking , friendly girls although it was expensive. Generally it was 600 RMB /day and tip about 2 years ago. Since my chinese friends arranged the girls I guess it was cheaper. Once I had a girl from Sichuan who was real GFE and became a good friend with extras.
If you are a visitor there is no need to go to a KTV. Stand with the mamasan and check all her girls. Specify your requirements like 8-9-10 girls only, big rack, tall , young etc. Those who are available will stop by for your inspection. If you do not like any go to the next mamasan.

[Middleway]

Sammon,

Very helpful information!

Thanks, bro.

[Middleway]

What was the almost paper-thin, white cottony strip, about 4"x2", placed on the inside bottom of the girl's panty (under her pussy)? Hardly can that be a napkin. No signs whatsoever she was on a period or even concerned about it.

Gotta rule that out.

Also the medical: That and her panty were immaculate by sight and smell.

It leaves me with--an anti-camel toe device LMAO? She was wearing a mini dress. Is that what that was??

[Moody]

What was the almost paper-thin, white cottony strip, about 4"x2", placed on the inside bottom of the girl's panty (under her pussy)? Hardly can that be a napkin. No signs whatsoever she was on a period or even concerned about it.

Gotta rule that out.

Also the medical: That and her panty were immaculate by sight and smell.

It leaves me with--an anti-camel toe device LMAO? She was wearing a mini dress. Is that what that was??

It's a panty liner. It's to prevent staining the panty with whatever flows out of the vagina.

[Middleway]

Interesting. Not seen with the previous hundreds I've been with LOL but can't say for the Chinese. (Wilt Chamberlain, where are you when we need you?) But let's stay with this-I'm curious about some other things about that special first encounter of mine in China-an absolute 9 if not 10.

She avoided sitting on the can; rather she squatted over the floor, splattering the bathroom. But when on the can, she sat in 3 to 9 o'clock direction rather than 12 to 6. I know that Chinese typically squat over a hole in the floor. Japanese did too until recent decades. But some felt uncomfortable with touching the western toilet seat (unclean!). So I guess explains it. But sitting 3 to 9 o'clock direction? Fear of touching the front where a dick might have been?

And most of all: how typical her behavior? Simply Chinese or a WG?

[Stegram]

What was the almost paper-thin, white cottony strip, about 4"x2", placed on the inside bottom of the girl's panty (under her pussy)? Hardly can that be a napkin. No signs whatsoever she was on a period or even concerned about it.

Gotta rule that out.

Also the medical: That and her panty were immaculate by sight and smell.

It leaves me with--an anti-camel toe device LMAO? She was wearing a mini dress. Is that what that was??

Is this the first time you've gotten a girl's pants off?
Maybe I've been with the same girl too long. After the honeymoon's over, you'll see those things all the time.

[Waldeck2]

When some Chinese girls get excited -- they get wet, very wet. Take a taste, some Chinese girls love it. Others takes a session or two or three, haven't found one that didn't come around. Tastes fantastic -- nectar of the gods.


What was the almost paper-thin, white cottony strip, about 4"x2", placed on the inside bottom of the girl's panty (under her pussy)? Hardly can that be a napkin. No signs whatsoever she was on a period or even concerned about it.

Gotta rule that out.

Also the medical: That and her panty were immaculate by sight and smell.

It leaves me with--an anti-camel toe device LMAO? She was wearing a mini dress. Is that what that was??

[Middleway]

Is this the first time you've gotten a girl's pants off?That's funny Stegram. But I've been married three times and with scores of women of various kinds. Probably of all the most cleanliness are the Japanese women. If anywone would use it would be Japanese. Have been with over 50 Japanese and never seen 'em with it. If anyone would see one, it would be me. Got a fetish big time.

[Middleway]

When some Chinese girls get excited -- they get wet, very wet. Take a taste, some Chinese girls love it. Others takes a session or two or three, haven't found one that didn't come around. Tastes fantastic -- nectar of the gods.Of course they get wet! That's the result of excitement as you were so observant to see. However you contradict scores written about Chinese not digging oral sex. In fact, isn't the language poor about vocabulary in this area? That suggests a taboo.

I don't doubt that some of your WGs have come around about that. But a fact is some cultures don't dig it. Apparently that includes Chinese.

This has special interest because of Chinese misbeliefs about HIV. Many Chinese think that the main route is by kissing--use of mouth, get it?

[Pushkin13]

...

She avoided sitting on the can; rather she squatted over the floor, splattering the bathroom. But when on the can, she sat in 3 to 9 o'clock direction rather than 12 to 6. I know that Chinese typically squat over a hole in the floor. Japanese did too until recent decades. But some felt uncomfortable with touching the western toilet seat (unclean!). So I guess explains it. But sitting 3 to 9 o'clock direction? Fear of touching the front where a dick might have been?

And most of all: how typical her behavior? Simply Chinese or a WG?

Typical Chinese behaviour.

I saw it on Saturday night, in a provincial hotel, and this gal is very civilized. Maybe the first time she had used a western (high) toilet bowl.

She is lucky (cough) to have me to educate her!!

I enjoyed the sight ... but thought that she was going to topple forward at any moment.

Just my experience.

P13.

[Middleway]

Typical Chinese behaviour.

I saw it on Saturday night, in a provincial hotel, and this gal is very civilized. Maybe the first time she had used a western (high) toilet bowl.

She is lucky (cough) to have me to educate her!!

I enjoyed the sight ... but thought that she was going to topple forward at any moment.

Just my experience.

P13.Hmm, good. I wish I was there too to enjoy the sight you had!

I'm most interested in the strange angle sitting. Did your girl do that? In my hotel room, in that angle she had to put her legs in a very cramped space. In other words, commonsense would tell her that's not the way but the 12-6 o'clock way pointing to the center of the bathroom, a roomy position for the legs. And of course, the shape of the seat might be a clue for her too.

Another point is my girl seemed sophisticated and her long time in the "business" would surely have given her many many chances to use western toilets (in 4 & 5 star hotels). Photos of the inside of her home show it full of the latest and finest goods (e. G. Large screen TV, huge refrigerator, etc.).

What I am driving at is that possibly she feared the front end of the toilet as possible contamination. She was very focused on cleanliness. If the reason, then that would help tie some things together.

Any comments are appreciated.

[South Gate]

my chinese gf, the first time she visited my home, squatted on the seat. i later asked her about it and she said it was a cleaner way to [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134). her own home had a sit down toilet which she sat on. so i think that this behaviour is a combination of their comfort with squatting which i find uncomfortable and fear of contamination.

hmm, good. i wish i was there too to enjoy the sight you had!

i'm most interested in the strange angle sitting. did your girl do that? in my hotel room, in that angle she had to put her legs in a very cramped space. in other words, commonsense would tell her that's not the way but the 12-6 o'clock way pointing to the center of the bathroom, a roomy position for the legs. and of course, the shape of the seat might be a clue for her too.

another point is my girl seemed sophisticated and her long time in the "business" would surely have given her many many chances to use western toilets (in 4 & 5 star hotels). photos of the inside of her home show it full of the latest and finest goods (e. g. large screen tv, huge refrigerator, etc.).

what i am driving at is that possibly she feared the front end of the toilet as possible contamination. she was very focused on cleanliness. if the reason, then that would help tie some things together.

any comments are appreciated.

[Middleway]

my chinese gf, the first time she visited my home, squatted on the seat. i later asked her about it and she said it was a cleaner way to [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134). her own home had a sit down toilet which she sat on. so i think that this behaviour is a combination of their comfort with squatting which i find uncomfortable and fear of contamination.thanks, as especially it helps me clarify--my wg did not squat on or over the toilet (as far as i know :). once i saw her sitting on the can but the other times she squatted or stood bent over the floor but not the toilet. we were in a very clean 5 star hotel; the seat was as clean as anywhere.

maybe she wanted to use the wash basin to wash her pussy and while doing so, she peed out onto the bathroom floor. it was a marvelous, au naturel sight. the naturalist, biologist inside of me just had to observe close up (of course). lol

in sum, i am trying to confirm or disconfirm a hunch that she wanted to avoid the front of the toilet seat as a precaution. the fact that she sat on the can at least once means that the seat was not entirely verboten. if a precaution, then it seems she's a really focused wg! and possibly a candidate for isg's girl of the year award!

[Bob Builder]

my chinese gf, the first time she visited my home, squatted on the seat. i later asked her about it and she said it was a cleaner way to [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134). her own home had a sit down toilet which she sat on. so i think that this behaviour is a combination of their comfort with squatting which i find uncomfortable and fear of contamination.

in the past you always knew if there was a china company on your floor in an office building because there was always shoe prints on the toilet seat.

and if the gal ever worked at a ktv, seeing guys aim peeing after they have a few drinks, i don't blame them.

[Middleway]

Well known is the gender difference that men want lights but girls want darkness. (He-men, that is lol) But a WG I reasoned should have no preference. Surprisingly my Chinese WG did. She wanted darkness despite she was gorgeous in every way. We negotiated and I won and got my lights. (As a side note, I found this is not usually an issue for regular Jn girls as compared to regular American girls.)

Question: How much is this an issue for Chinese WGs?

[Mike85]

in the past you always knew if there was a china company on your floor in an office building because there was always shoe prints on the toilet seat.

and if the gal ever worked at a ktv, seeing guys aim peeing after they have a few drinks, i don't blame them.absolutely true. they think western toilets are nasty, and they have a point. if you master the squatting technique, you don't need those annoying toilet seat liners.

i love the toilets in the frankfurt airport, they automatically wipe and clean the seat. these girls would have no problem resting their cheeks on one of them. till then, they will have no part of their cheeks resting on a seat where our cheeks have been.

have to love it.

[Jamie5063]

Absolutely true. They think western toilets are nasty, and they have a point. If you master the squatting technique, you don't need those annoying toilet seat liners.

I love the toilets in the Frankfurt airport, they automatically wipe and clean the seat. These girls would have no problem resting their cheeks on one of them. Till then, they will have no part of their cheeks resting on a seat where our cheeks have been.

Have to love it.Even when they are dressed If you look you will also see them not sitting on the bus if the seat is still warm, watch them test it with their hand. With all the spiting, smoking indoors, and rubbish for such a dirty place its amazing the strange goings on.

[Danishdude]

Hi all,

I am a Newbie to this site. Been reading some months and never posted.

My plan for now is to spend one week in China later this year, found a cheap flight ticket to Beijing and want to spend a week experiencing the culture, the food, the people. And very important also the girls.

I do NOT speak any Chinese. Will probably just learn a phrase or two.

I will try to keep budget not too high.

Could any one kinda describe a 'tailored' week. Where to live (should I get out of town or stay?), how to find girls. What to pay if I want to get home in one piece?

There a lot of abbreviations going around. What is KFT? CP?

Hope anyone feels like spreading a little wisdom for this 39 year old Newbie

BR

The Dane

[Middleway]

Here on this thread (?) kissing came up; Moody, for example, pointed out it's the funniest thing when a WG claims she doesn't kiss. Mine on the first day pressed her lips shut; by the second day, they opened and she even frenched. But she then mimed that she got gagged doing it, something no other (regular) female ever told me. We continued but half-frenching is not frenching at all.

Hmm... Probably a good acting performance by her but it raises the question to what extent was it that she was Chinese; to what extent, a WG.

[Lustforthrust]

If you look you will also see them not sitting on the bus if the seat is still warm, watch them test it with their hand. With all the spiting, smoking indoors, and rubbish for such a dirty place its amazing the strange goings on.

That's because if they will catch a cold or come down with fever or something if they sit on something warm (or cold); most Chinese (men & women) have obliterated their immunity by regularly popping pills real & fake (not placebo, just some counterfit sh!t) since birth.

I see some of these "super-hygienic" PRCs shamelessly feeding their nasty faces with fruit at Carrefour (a national pastime with the 3rd world Arabs) here in Doha, Qatar (world's 2nd richest country by per capita); the same unwashed fruit that an Egyptian, his XXXXL wife & their 6 kids fed themselves on, licked their fingers, then picked, rejected & selected.

[Rintoon]

I'm staying in a hotel in Beijing on business, and I need advice on ordering massage girls for outcall service.

I've RTFM, but I can't seem to find anything about what a decent rate is for massage and "after service" + RT taxi.

Are online classifieds reliable sources to find massage girls? Their asking price is pretty steep: I've seen some advertised for 1200 1500rmb. Another offered herself for 1000rmb.

And I thought China was cheap! If they asked for at least half what they're asking, it might be doable for me.

BTW I don't speak the language, but all the girls advertised seem to know some basic English.

Any help or advice appreciated.

Thanks

[Scoubidick]

then it seems she's a really focused WG! And possibly a candidate for ISG's Girl of the Year Award!Despite I think you guys dealing with some cottage-cheese gals, I really appreciated your investigations.

As a matter of fact, any Chinese gal know to use a western toilet, only the remaining one billion not. Please next engage the small bath towel issue. You are good indeed. You may also want pock Miss Lady with a million USD ceramic bathroom that is bigger than your NYC flat and your holyday bungallow combined, but that's a bit more challenging. Thanks, middleway! Make my day.

[Middleway]

A sure characteristic of the WG: When I cummed on the middle of her outstretched body on the bed, I was surprised to see her face buried in her arms. Automatic! Never seen a regular girl do it.

That makes me want to shout: hey, guys, have more respect for these women; stop squirting on their faces.

Besides possibly blinding them, it does nothing for you or your manhood. Rather it shortens it. (Maybe it was already short and explains the bukkake or whatever.)

Think too that "what goes around, comes around. " Disrespect will simply bounce back at ya. Or wait for you at the next turn.

[Middleway]

Despite I think you guys dealing with some cottage-cheese gals, I really appreciated your investigations.

As a matter of fact, any Chinese gal know to use a western toilet, only the remaining one billion not. Please next engage the small bath towel issue. You are good indeed. You may also want pock Miss Lady with a million USD ceramic bathroom that is bigger than your NYC flat and your holyday bungallow combined, but that's a bit more challenging. Thanks, middleway! Make my day.Scoubidick, you’re back in China. Nothin’ goin’ on in Hanoi? lol

About your “cottage cheese” remark: You can’t mean my babe—a definite niner, a definite niner. Scoubidick, you would kiss the ground she walks on; even the toilet seat she sits. lol But I don’t think your Singaporean Dollars could afford her. lol

Hey, what’s this thing about the small bath towel?! Post that on the board as “Curiosity #“ and help flesh out the genus called WG. Contribute to the science of mongering.

[Scoubidick]

well, i 'm afraid that my contribution on china area is currently obsolete.

what can be recalled from picks here? i've been here already in the past, and seriously inevstigated the drag and drop in disco's. strangely, it's don't looks so popular but i think it's funny. going to pick-up discos or even ballroom style disco's, get dizzy with some drinks, have fun with girlies and eventually a ice-tea-stotch ethanol based with the pimps arround, select the choosen one among the wg's, deal for a price lt from 5 to 1m according the vibe. particularities and noticable events range from the residential compound guardian say a " please slow a bit down" followed by my "ok", the n3 hospital doc saying " very strange, your skin show some symptoms of itch generated by rice stem matress that only farmers are supposed to use" followed by my "i don't know either" or hotel housekeeping staff lining up and applause my room checkout in the morning with laugh after a whole night of banging accross the bathroom walls, i maybe had overestimated the thinkness of the walls. i could mention also that blind man massager who recovered my neck wreck saying " if you don't know what caused it, i think i know, touching is nose". about the fantastic world of wgs, nothing great either, i liked very much the "can you give me at least few kwais for the taxi".

wich is indeed very cheap for a night. like as well, the repeating one said "no anal, i never did and will never do ever" forgetting that one week before she did not objected. i remember one "i am tired, i sleep" tender as well, and outside few minutes later. of course, countless "you are big" "i am hungry" "we go for shopping" "i make my beauty sleep" "you should stop smoke""don't drink too much" "take care yourself more""have you ever been to sichuan" "tommorow i send my grand aunty at hospital" and so on, that you, hopefully, already master yourself without my help. a truth is, set appart: discos and take a regular, it maybe exists other options to explore on the wilder side. i already spotted near my place quiet infamous circus of gals intercepting cyclers and leading them behind a block. do i have to deal with, finally, this "catacomb" myth that is haunting isgers at times? will i discover those caves where 200 pussies squeeze themselves on a marble tree giant root perforing the ceilling to make a [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) directly in a mercure-based water spring and whipp themselves with fresh pumpkin leaves handemade harvested earlier by this 'watcher" who wear a orange city cleaner uniform?

oh, yes, i'm going to do that and report. and also ask myself how long i can continue to write with that ugly globish.

i mean sorry for my english.

[Fuzimiao]

Hey, what’s this thing about the small bath towel?! Post that on the board as “Curiosity #“ and help flesh out the genus called WG. Contribute to the science of mongering.Try using her small bath towel! in my experience Chinese women have an extremely keen sense of smell. I touched her's once too often, a week later the builders were brought in, I now have my own bathroom, w.c., and towels!

fz

[Waldeck2]

Two bathrooms are the norm as far as I can tell. And in Shanghai a 2 bath condo is pricey compared to a single bath. I don't get it but then, who cares! I have a bathroom. She has a bathroom. She doesn't use mine and I don't use hers. End of story. Next? No trouble sleeping together. Go figure.


Try using her small bath towel! in my experience Chinese women have an extremely keen sense of smell. I touched her's once too often, a week later the builders were brought in, I now have my own bathroom, w.c., and towels!
fz

[Clean Gene]

Try using her small bath towel! in my experience Chinese women have an extremely keen sense of smell. I touched her's once too often, a week later the builders were brought in, I now have my own bathroom, w.c., and towels!

fz
Fuzimiao,

Here in Hefei, I have friends with 'sensitive sense of smell'. They will come to my place and tell me I have had 'Laowai' guests. They have also been able to sense that I have had XingJiang girls or African girls visiting.

I once tested guests at a party. The girl left the room as another guest handled a napkin or towel. Returning she could take a whiff of the towel and identify the guest who handled it.

CG

[Bnlee2]

my chinese gf, the first time she visited my home, squatted on the seat. i later asked her about it and she said it was a cleaner way to [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134). her own home had a sit down toilet which she sat on. so i think that this behaviour is a combination of their comfort with squatting which i find uncomfortable and fear of contamination.this habit is not limited to china girls squatting on the toilet. i'm out in california and one of my client has a manufacturing plant and they have a lot of "first generation" hispanic workers. they have a problem with broken toilet seats and constantly repairing them. many of these hispanic workers do not sit on the toilet seat even though there is disposal toilet seat covers, they prefer to squat. when they do, many times they crack the toilet seat. this is just not limited to the female toilets. evidently, the toilet seat in the mens' rooms have the same problem. they tried getting metal seats but then that also get constantly dented from footprints.

as for me when i go an see my client, i usually use the toilet in the executive offices which does not have that problem cause the production workers rarely uses it.

i just cannot see myself squatting to take a "crap". with my age, i think they should have ropes right above the toilet so that i can get up from the squat and prevent me from falling into the cesspool. for some to the guys that have met me, i would make one heck of a splash if i ever fell into the cesspool.

[Henhao888]

Not all Chinese, but I have noticed many Chinese men and women with foul breath. Women often have that sour milk or sausage breath. Slimy tongue and plaque coated teeth. Huge turn-off for me.

I know lots of foreigners will have bad hygiene too, but I was raised with dental floss and teeth brushing and keeping a clean mouth. Also, I have found some Chinese women with very good oral hygiene.

I keep a stock of Listerine at my place, and offer it to females friends when I can't get close to their mouths. They will swish for me.

Anyone else notice the foul mouth smell too? At work, on the subway.

[Middleway]

Is the breath problem of WG found more with SW and least with those at KTV? Intermediate, BBS and sauna? And what percent of SW/BBS girls have foul breath would you say?


Not all Chinese, but I have noticed many Chinese men and women with foul breath. Women often have that sour milk or sausage breath. Slimy tongue and plaque coated teeth. Huge turn-off for me.

I know lots of foreigners will have bad hygiene too, but I was raised with dental floss and teeth brushing and keeping a clean mouth. Also, I have found some Chinese women with very good oral hygiene.

I keep a stock of Listerine at my place, and offer it to females friends when I can't get close to their mouths. They will swish for me.

Anyone else notice the foul mouth smell too? At work, on the subway.

[Brilla2]

Hello, to all,

I am a newcomer to China although I have already gathered a lot of experience in this hobby worldwide.

I would really appreciate your opinion on what happened to me recently.

I spent 2 weeks in Beijing, this was my first time. I will start to come regularly there for business trips later on.

I met a Chinese girl in a normal disco (MIX) on a weekday. She said she is a student, 19 y. Old, good looking albeit not a super-model type. Dressed poorly if compared to other girls in the same disco (ie. No designer clothes and shoes, just flip-flops, etc.).

She didn't want to come at my hotel on the first night. Agreed for meeting the day after for dinner, etc.. Everything went well and then she came to my hotel.

She was very affectionate and the experience differed quite a lot from the usual "working-girl" experience, at least compared to my experiences elsewhere. She was really wet and seemed to enjoy a lot.

Didn't ask me for anything, not even the usual "taxi" fees or whatever.

Didn't give her even 1 cent, just like a real freebie overseas or in Europe.

I left the day after (flying home) and kept contact with her promising we would see us again on my next trips, which I surely intend to do.

The point is: why didn't she charge me? Is it really possible that she is genuinely not a working girl?

There are many signs which show she might be a WG or anyway in one way or another in the business: what was she doing alone (she said she was with a girlfriend but I never saw her) in a club? She has many tattoes and piercings and she was very vague regarding her studies (I asked what she studies and then she mentioned she should still start universtity after summer and that she would like to study "maybe computer"). She had apparently plenty of free time (she said university is closed.); she knew too many English words for sex (eg. Blowjob, etc.).

She acted very naughtly in the bedroom showing experience in the field with good technique and lot of initiative.

The fact is: I would like to see her again in my next trips but I wouldn't like to regularly date a "working girl" who pretends to be a "normal girl"; I can easily meet working girls everywhere in Beijing.

Do you think she just didn't charge me because she hopes to become my girlfriend or wife (I'm young and single)?

Or is it really possible, even in China, to have a freebie like in Europe or in the US without any "financial" implications (in one way or another)?

I thank you a lot for your help! I promise that I'll also post reviews of the other places in Beijing that I visited in my 2 weeks (Maggie's, Chocolate, Suzie Wongs etc. Etc. Etc.).

I know it may look a bit naive but I am new here and I really don't know what to think and what to expect.

[Waldeck2]

For me the worst breath results from them eating that damn stinky tofu which some of them love to eat. Uuuuuuuuck. Hard to get ride of as well.


Not all Chinese, but I have noticed many Chinese men and women with foul breath. Women often have that sour milk or sausage breath. Slimy tongue and plaque coated teeth. Huge turn-off for me.

I know lots of foreigners will have bad hygiene too, but I was raised with dental floss and teeth brushing and keeping a clean mouth. Also, I have found some Chinese women with very good oral hygiene.

I keep a stock of Listerine at my place, and offer it to females friends when I can't get close to their mouths. They will swish for me.

Anyone else notice the foul mouth smell too? At work, on the subway.

[Pushkin13]

Not all Chinese, but I have noticed many Chinese men and women with foul breath. Women often have that sour milk or sausage breath. Slimy tongue and plaque coated teeth. Huge turn-off for me.

I know lots of foreigners will have bad hygiene too, but I was raised with dental floss and teeth brushing and keeping a clean mouth. Also, I have found some Chinese women with very good oral hygiene.

I keep a stock of Listerine at my place, and offer it to females friends when I can't get close to their mouths. They will swish for me.

Anyone else notice the foul mouth smell too? At work, on the subway.

A part of the reason for the different oral smells, is that the Chinese diet is often rich in members of the onion family (shallots, leeks, onions, garlic, chives, spring onions etc.).

These plants are rich in sulphur, hence the different smell.

A golden rule: if only one member of a relationship eats garlic in a meal, then ... disaster. If neither, or both, eat, then the relationship will be longer lasting!

Just my experience.

:)

P13

[Middleway]

A part of the reason for the different oral smells, is that the Chinese diet is often rich in members of the onion family (shallots, leeks, onions, garlic, chives, spring onions etc.).

These plants are rich in sulphur, hence the different smell.

P13You helped clear something up--the memory in my mind of a terrible sulphur smell in my hotel!! Hallways, front lobby, etc. Was that the problem you think? It was a high rank Chinese hotel but eventually I had to move myself to the Hilton.

[Henhao888]

Is the breath problem of WG found more with SW and least with those at KTV? Intermediate, BBS and sauna? And what percent of SW/BBS girls have foul breath would you say?I think the more professional WG will have learned to keep a clean mouth while working. Especially if they target foreign customers.

The average BBS or massage girl might be a more interesting experience, but the risk is putting up with foul breath. I like the average girls because the experience is more real. The pro WG tend to be emotionless and fake.

There's different levels of foul breath. Some I can endure as part of "the experience." But a slimy tongue will gag me haha.

[Henhao888]

Hello, to all,

I am a newcomer to China although I have already gathered a lot of experience in this hobby worldwide.

I would really appreciate your opinion on what happened to me recently.

I spent 2 weeks in Beijing, this was my first time. I will start to come regularly there for business trips later on.

I met a Chinese girl in a normal disco (MIX) on a weekday. She said she is a student, 19 y. Old, good looking albeit not a super-model type. Dressed poorly if compared to other girls in the same disco (ie. No designer clothes and shoes, just flip-flops, etc.).

She didn't want to come at my hotel on the first night. Agreed for meeting the day after for dinner, etc.. Everything went well and then she came to my hotel.

She was very affectionate and the experience differed quite a lot from the usual "working-girl" experience, at least compared to my experiences elsewhere. She was really wet and seemed to enjoy a lot.

Didn't ask me for anything, not even the usual "taxi" fees or whatever.

Didn't give her even 1 cent, just like a real freebie overseas or in Europe.

I left the day after (flying home) and kept contact with her promising we would see us again on my next trips, which I surely intend to do.

The point is: why didn't she charge me? Is it really possible that she is genuinely not a working girl?

There are many signs which show she might be a WG or anyway in one way or another in the business: what was she doing alone (she said she was with a girlfriend but I never saw her) in a club? She has many tattoes and piercings and she was very vague regarding her studies (I asked what she studies and then she mentioned she should still start universtity after summer and that she would like to study "maybe computer"). She had apparently plenty of free time (she said university is closed.); she knew too many English words for sex (eg. Blowjob, etc.).

She acted very naughtly in the bedroom showing experience in the field with good technique and lot of initiative.

The fact is: I would like to see her again in my next trips but I wouldn't like to regularly date a "working girl" who pretends to be a "normal girl"; I can easily meet working girls everywhere in Beijing.

Do you think she just didn't charge me because she hopes to become my girlfriend or wife (I'm young and single)?

Or is it really possible, even in China, to have a freebie like in Europe or in the US without any "financial" implications (in one way or another)?

I thank you a lot for your help! I promise that I'll also post reviews of the other places in Beijing that I visited in my 2 weeks (Maggie's, Chocolate, Suzie Wongs etc. Etc. Etc.).

I know it may look a bit naive but I am new here and I really don't know what to think and what to expect.She may prefer foreign men. She might have wanted to enjoy a nice place to hang out and sleep that night. She may have figured that her best chance to have an experience with a foreign guy was to go for it and not charge him.

Also, if she does hope for a serious relationship with a foreigner, she might not want to start it out as a money transaction.

I think she probably has a realistic attitude. Has a desire for foreign guys. Wants to try it. Maybe dreams of relationship with foreigner. And did not want to be associated with common WG.

She sounds like a punk with the tattoos. Most likely has her own fierce ideas about China. She's probably very interesting.

She could definitely turn out to be a good friend. Remember that she is very poor and lives a meager budget. As you become friends it won't take much to improve her quality of life. She's not like a Shanghai girl who expects luxury gifts and her expensive lifestyle to be paid for. Nothing is free.

[Brilla2]

Thanks for the interesting reply.

You are right, she probably aims at a relationship with foreigners.
Of course this greatly improves her quality of life, she can visit nice places or even travel. She has some 10 piercings...I guess from your post that in China this may have a "special" meaning regarding her ideas? Interesting.

Maybe she is also a WG who has now realized it's more clever to date somebody for free and hope in a long-term relationship rather than being paid (and get rid of) everytime. Who knows?

Would be nice to hear also other member's opinion.

So apparently a "freebie" is possible even here...(maybe I shouldn't wonder: it's just that I became too cynic due to my too many WGs experiences elsewhere).









She may prefer foreign men. She might have wanted to enjoy a nice place to hang out and sleep that night. She may have figured that her best chance to have an experience with a foreign guy was to go for it and not charge him.

Also, if she does hope for a serious relationship with a foreigner, she might not want to start it out as a money transaction.

I think she probably has a realistic attitude. Has a desire for foreign guys. Wants to try it. Maybe dreams of relationship with foreigner. And did not want to be associated with common WG.

She sounds like a punk with the tattoos. Most likely has her own fierce ideas about China. She's probably very interesting.

She could definitely turn out to be a good friend. Remember that she is very poor and lives a meager budget. As you become friends it won't take much to improve her quality of life. She's not like a Shanghai girl who expects luxury gifts and her expensive lifestyle to be paid for. Nothing is free.

[Loveasiangirls]

Hello, to all,

I am a newcomer to China although I have already gathered a lot of experience in this hobby worldwide.

I would really appreciate your opinion on what happened to me recently.

I spent 2 weeks in Beijing, this was my first time. I will start to come regularly there for business trips later on.

I met a Chinese girl in a normal disco (MIX) on a weekday. She said she is a student, 19 y. Old, good looking albeit not a super-model type. Dressed poorly if compared to other girls in the same disco (ie. No designer clothes and shoes, just flip-flops, etc.).

She didn't want to come at my hotel on the first night. Agreed for meeting the day after for dinner, etc.. Everything went well and then she came to my hotel.

She was very affectionate and the experience differed quite a lot from the usual "working-girl" experience, at least compared to my experiences elsewhere. She was really wet and seemed to enjoy a lot.

Didn't ask me for anything, not even the usual "taxi" fees or whatever.

Didn't give her even 1 cent, just like a real freebie overseas or in Europe.

I left the day after (flying home) and kept contact with her promising we would see us again on my next trips, which I surely intend to do.

The point is: why didn't she charge me? Is it really possible that she is genuinely not a working girl?

There are many signs which show she might be a WG or anyway in one way or another in the business: what was she doing alone (she said she was with a girlfriend but I never saw her) in a club? She has many tattoes and piercings and she was very vague regarding her studies (I asked what she studies and then she mentioned she should still start universtity after summer and that she would like to study "maybe computer"). She had apparently plenty of free time (she said university is closed.); she knew too many English words for sex (eg. Blowjob, etc.).

She acted very naughtly in the bedroom showing experience in the field with good technique and lot of initiative.

The fact is: I would like to see her again in my next trips but I wouldn't like to regularly date a "working girl" who pretends to be a "normal girl"; I can easily meet working girls everywhere in Beijing.

Do you think she just didn't charge me because she hopes to become my girlfriend or wife (I'm young and single)?

Or is it really possible, even in China, to have a freebie like in Europe or in the US without any "financial" implications (in one way or another)?

I thank you a lot for your help! I promise that I'll also post reviews of the other places in Beijing that I visited in my 2 weeks (Maggie's, Chocolate, Suzie Wongs etc. Etc. Etc.).

I know it may look a bit naive but I am new here and I really don't know what to think and what to expect.

It is no different from meeting a girl back home. She just wants a good time. Not every girl you meet in a bar in you home city is a hooker, same in Beijing.
If you want to keep her as a regular try to treat her as a gf as you would back home. She may not ask anything but I am sure she would be happy if you get her some gifts. I deal mostly with freebies and offering them taxi money is not always a good idea as if they accept then they feel like hookers.

[Simbasa 9]

Hello, all,

My friend and I are going to China next month and hoping to hook up with some working girls in Beijing and Shanghai. He's black and well built- we have done 3some before but never with Chinese gal. Here in California he can only get handjobs from Chinese massueses and some turn him down completely. He's nice guy and well groomed. Just scares some of the girls I guess.

So any size queens out there in Beijing and Shanghai? Or will he just have to play it by hand again? He has met a couple of willing girls here but very few and far between.

[Sick Boy3]

From all of the Asian women I have been with. They prefer a "strong" penis over someone well endowed. Strong meaning it is rock hard, standing straight up. Actually most prefer some one smaller in size in Asia. I think your friend will be very frustrated. Not like my lady friends in the US that want some one well endowed.

[Sick Boy3]

Hi all,

I am a Newbie to this site. Been reading some months and never posted.

My plan for now is to spend one week in China later this year, found a cheap flight ticket to Beijing and want to spend a week experiencing the culture, the food, the people. And very important also the girls.

I do NOT speak any Chinese. Will probably just learn a phrase or two.

I will try to keep budget not too high.

Could any one kinda describe a 'tailored' week. Where to live (should I get out of town or stay?), how to find girls. What to pay if I want to get home in one piece?

There a lot of abbreviations going around. What is KFT? CP?

Hope anyone feels like spreading a little wisdom for this 39 year old Newbie

BR

The DaneGo to some of the Chinese dating sites. Be prepared to spend some money to join. Some have profiles with the ladies views on sex during a relationship. You might meet the right woman for you in another city even. I have met several really classy ladies. They speak english well. Desire to have relationship with a western guy. Just be aware. Some of these women can be real gems. And you might fall completely for them. I did. No regrets. The classiest lady I have ever met, and she has some wealth accumilated. (she is worth several milliion USD) from one of these sites. I went from monger to lover. Have a great time. Best if you have companion with you start. She will show you lots and make the initial trip much better.

[Blacklisted]

It is no different from meeting a girl back home. She just wants a good time. Not every girl you meet in a bar in you home city is a hooker, same in Beijing.
If you want to keep her as a regular try to treat her as a gf as you would back home. She may not ask anything but I am sure she would be happy if you get her some gifts. I deal mostly with freebies and offering them taxi money is not always a good idea as if they accept then they feel like hookers.


I agree that she sounds like a lot of fun. As for her motivations, given the fact she is 19 and by all accounts pretty 'out there' she might have wanted to shag a foreigner as a further extension of her rebellious personality.

As for relationships, it possibly depends on you and your apprearance. If your a good looking guy, then she's probably sexually attracted to you. If your not, then she could possibly be thinking of a meal ticket and might not realize foreigners are generally not so savvy to that kind of thing- whereas Chinese guys implicitly get it.

Either way, she sounds awesome, so I'd milk it for all it's worth and not be too concerned as to her motivations.

Agree about the taxi money too. Bad idea. Gifts are much better as they remove any feeling that she might believe to be wing treated as a hooker which could really fuck things up. Gifts are going to ensure it's longer term.

Good luck!

Blacklisted

[Blacklisted]

sorry for the typos and grammar- was writing on my phone and for some reason it won't let me edit. FSL 烦死了


I agree that she sounds like a lot of fun. As for her motivations, given the fact she is 19 and by all accounts pretty 'out there' she might have wanted to shag a foreigner as a further extension of her rebellious personality.

As for relationships, it possibly depends on you and your apprearance. If your a good looking guy, then she's probably sexually attracted to you. If your not, then she could possibly be thinking of a meal ticket and might not realize foreigners are generally not so savvy to that kind of thing- whereas Chinese guys implicitly get it.

Either way, she sounds awesome, so I'd milk it for all it's worth and not be too concerned as to her motivations.

Agree about the taxi money too. Bad idea. Gifts are much better as they remove any feeling that she might believe to be wing treated as a hooker which could really fuck things up. Gifts are going to ensure it's longer term.

Good luck!

Blacklisted

[Tit Fest]

Asking for advice for any beach areas near Shanghai with WG etc. and singles action.

Or will I be better off staying in Shanghai?

Have a 6 day unsupervised window of opportunity for mongering Sept. 1 to Sept. 6.

Any and all advice is most appreciated.

[Eaglestar]

Asking for advice for any beach areas near Shanghai with WG etc. and singles action.

Or will I be better off staying in Shanghai?

Have a 6 day unsupervised window of opportunity for mongering Sept. 1 to Sept. 6.

Any and all advice is most appreciated.


The words "Shanghai" and "Beaches" are mutually exclusive, ie, there are no beaches in Shanghai.

Best beaches in China are further south (with the exception of Qingdao). Places such as Sanya, BeiHai etc but you are looking a couple or three hours flight time

I recommend keeping your unit wet with the juice of some of the Shanghai darlins'



ES

[Tit Fest]

Thanks for the courtesy of your advise Eaglestar.

Pattaya, Phuket, and of course Bangkok have always been superb. Never been to China. Can't expect anything on Thailand's level of PFP. Just curious if any of the beach areas remotely close.

After all the beaches research now I remember Chinese women arent particularly fond of the sun.

Will take the forums advise and frequent the BBS spas Manhattan, Judys etc.

May your mast always stand tall and your sails (my metaphor for the farer sex) stay wet.

[Loveasiangirls]

Asking for advice for any beach areas near Shanghai with WG etc. and singles action.

Or will I be better off staying in Shanghai?

Have a 6 day unsupervised window of opportunity for mongering Sept. 1 to Sept. 6.

Any and all advice is most appreciated.
Beaches in China?? You can find some, have a look...

[Middleway]

Loveasiangirls,

Could you help me a bit. The girl in the pink bikini in the middle of the photo--I almost can make it out--is that "WG" embroidered on her right cheek?

And for such girls, it would not be too forward if we tap their shoulder and pork them from behind? Won't that attract attention or is that what those umbrellas are for? And lastly, what do we do if the WGs are not wearing their WG label?


Beaches in China?? You can find some, have a look...

[OldAsiaHand]

Hello, all,

My friend and I are going to China next month and hoping to hook up with some working girls in Beijing and Shanghai. He's black and well built- we have done 3some before but never with Chinese gal. Here in California he can only get handjobs from Chinese massueses and some turn him down completely. He's nice guy and well groomed. Just scares some of the girls I guess.

So any size queens out there in Beijing and Shanghai? Or will he just have to play it by hand again? He has met a couple of willing girls here but very few and far between.

Simbasa 9,

PM Clandestine for first hand experience. He has been living in China with the same blessing for some time.

On the other hand, I was with a WG yesterday and asked her about her experience with foreigners. For whatever it's worth, she told me she never does black guys because of the fear factor. She tried once and was scared to death of the size. IMHO, I think she speaks for the majority of WGs in China. That said, there are always exceptions to every rule.

Just my POV.

OAH

[OldAsiaHand]

I'm staying in a hotel in Beijing on business, and I need advice on ordering massage girls for outcall service.

I've RTFM, but I can't seem to find anything about what a decent rate is for massage and "after service" + RT taxi.

Are online classifieds reliable sources to find massage girls? Their asking price is pretty steep: I've seen some advertised for 1200 1500rmb. Another offered herself for 1000rmb.

And I thought China was cheap! If they asked for at least half what they're asking, it might be doable for me.

BTW I don't speak the language, but all the girls advertised seem to know some basic English.

Any help or advice appreciated.

Thanks

Rintoon.

This post may be too late but hopefully useful for future visits. Next time, you may want to post on the Beijing thread for better results.

IMHO, Beijing is probably the most expensive mongering location in China so everything is on the high side.

For outcall service, you should search on the Beijing thread. There are a couple of providers posted about on there for 500-600 RMB, I believe. These services have received mixed reviews.

I never do Chinese girls in Beijing, only Mongolian and the odd Russian, but they are all 1,000+ RMB and sometimes even more.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Simbasa 9]

Simbasa 9,

PM Clandestine for first hand experience. He has been living in China with the same blessing for some time.

On the other hand, I was with a WG yesterday and asked her about her experience with foreigners. For whatever it's worth, she told me she never does black guys because of the fear factor. She tried once and was scared to death of the size. IMHO, I think she speaks for the majority of WGs in China. That said, there are always exceptions to every rule.

Just my POV.

OAH Thanks for the info. Hopefully there are some gals out there. Personally, I have only met one chinese lady who liked big size but only to play with and not intercourse. She was an exceptional masseuse, though, and very liberal for a chinese gal. The ones my friend had here in the states I think were actually korean.

[Professor 1]

Simbasa 9,

PM Clandestine for first hand experience. He has been living in China with the same blessing for some time.

On the other hand, I was with a WG yesterday and asked her about her experience with foreigners. For whatever it's worth, she told me she never does black guys because of the fear factor. She tried once and was scared to death of the size. IMHO, I think she speaks for the majority of WGs in China. That said, there are always exceptions to every rule.

OAHI have never been to China; however, I had a Chinese girl in Bangkok for a few days. She would wake me during the night for another go. She had no fear.

[Loveasiangirls]

I have never been to China; however, I had a Chinese girl in Bangkok for a few days. She would wake me during the night for another go. She had no fear. :)I think that they are often just too lazy. I am not so big and 80% of working girls complain about size and I never had a freebie complain, go figure.

[Waldeck2]

Some of this has to do with perceptions. Many Oriental girls are of the opinion that their pussy is small and that men, other than Orientals, are large, huge, you name it. If she thinks she is small, and she is willing, open her up with two or three fingers and some lube. Some have been known to enjoy this activity. And when you enter her, have her on top so she is in control, most likely she will engulf you and she may enjoy the ride. I have been refused service in a sauna for size, and have been hugged and kissed and asked to ask for them by number when I return. Tastes differ. YMMV.

[Mind Maggot]

I think that they are often just too lazy. I am not so big and 80% of working girls complain about size and I never had a freebie complain, go figure.Maggot firmly agrees, freebies dont complain, WGs do. Mainly cause very few WGs in China enjoy doing it. They presume they can finish the deal quickly or get away with below par performance by such a complain. Many a times Maggot was told "please cum quickly".

[Dash]

This is the epilogue of a long boring and to some annoying story of my girlfriend who moved to the USA from Shanghai. This is only intended for someone who is thinking of biting the biscuit or buying the cow=marrying a Chinese woman. Buyer beware.
No need to go over the facts much, but the end of the story may be instructive. The woman in question put pressure onto me and we'd been dating and I wanted to marry her when I returned from being out of town to care for my dying mother. I came home stressed out, bummed out, and a little richer.
She'd lived about 45 minutes from me, and decided to buy herself a small business. I wanted her to move in and I wanted to support her and pay her tuition for her CPA. So, some problem right away since her business would take up much of her time. She refused to move in and commute to her business.
She made what I called unreasonable demands and some here hated my diatribes about it all. Anyway, as it turned out, she always had someone else and was playing me against the other guy. How did I find out?
The guy called her the last time I screwed her, she got a call and had a huge fight. She had always told me that because I was not agreeing to: buying a house near her business, having a child with her (she's 40, I'm a few years older), allowing her parents from Shanghai to move in, cohabitating with her Aunt to take care of the kid, or sending our kid to be raised in China, etc. that her friend was going to introduce her to a new guy.
The sticking point of a kid needs explanation. Since she worked 7 days a week and took no days off, and was 40, I asked her "Can we really accomplish your goal? It will probably require fertility treatments and you will probably have to quit working. It may be pretty expensive and difficult. Have you thought this through?" I asked too many questions.
Because I made everything sound hopeless, she said she would be introduced to another guy. It was completely bullshit. There was ALWAYS the other guy, since before I returned.
Funny thing was this guy flipped out she had lied about her whereabouts when I was with her and I thought it very odd "Hey, why's he so jealous since you were only just introduced on the blind date arranged by your friend?"
He later took her cell and he looked at the numbers and called my friend up. He could never get over suspecting and distrusting her since he caught her lying (no shit).
Lil called me and skyped me in a panic and asked me "do not talk with him." Lil never told him the truth, that I was fucking her when she had told him she was "having dinner with friends" on a Saturday night.
A while later, he even called me and still thinks I am seeing her. But, I am not, and I felt sorry for the guy and said "I don't think she's seeing a guy #3, but she's not seeing me anymore."
Shanghai Lil called me in a panic and was afraid I'd spill the beans probably about her grandiose plans. Later, she emailed me that I was horrible and I tried to destroy her because I had talked to the new boyfriend/sucker. She was horrified that he knew that we were both seeing her at the same time, for months at least. Worse, he was not getting that much pussy from her and he was unhappy. He was also shocked to hear what her big plans are.
So, I am now so FUCKING glad that I did not crumble to her pussy blackmail. I actually considered buying a house and relocating nearer to her business. I ruffled a ton of feathers here talking about it. This warning is only intended for guys who meet the huge number of single hot Chinese sweet girls and consider taking one home to the USA. Proceed with caution, and do not believe anything that sounds like bullshit, because it IS bullshit.
I have an friend over in Cupertino and his Chinese wife has been gone for most of the year and his boy is being raised by a nanny and grandmother. The mother hangs out with the kid probably a few hours a night. Now, Shanghai Lil thinks that this Chinese woman who is married but stays in Beijing is "very lucky". I said "Yeah, the person who is not very lucky is her sucker husband. I guess he's enjoying no pussy, no cooking and his son being raised by people who are not able to speak English. Sounds awesome!"
Moral: Deep down women are the same, but in my experience, Latinas are more emotional in their outlook towards other men, and much less venal. Just for laughs one day I looked just one free singles site and searched Shanghai for single women between 30-40 and I think I saw 12,000 girls, for what it's worth they are out there looking around for a guy.
Full disclosure: I am not ugly, poor, fat, old or anything else. I have not fucked a zillion hookers, but when one travels, it's a shame not to.

[Usbomber123]

This is the epilogue of a long boring and to some annoying story of my girlfriend who moved to the USA from Shanghai. This is only intended for someone who is thinking of biting the biscuit or buying the cow=marrying a Chinese woman. Buyer beware.

No need to go over the facts much, but the end of the story may be instructive. The woman in question put pressure onto me and we'd been dating and I wanted to marry her when I returned from being out of town to care for my dying mother. I came home stressed out, bummed out, and a little richer.

She'd lived about 45 minutes from me, and decided to buy herself a small business. I wanted her to move in and I wanted to support her and pay her tuition for her CPA. So, some problem right away since her business would take up much of her time. She refused to move in and commute to her business.

She made what I called unreasonable demands and some here hated my diatribes about it all. Anyway, as it turned out, she always had someone else and was playing me against the other guy. How did I find out?

The guy called her the last time I screwed her, she got a call and had a huge fight. She had always told me that because I was not agreeing to: buying a house near her business, having a child with her (she's 40, I'm a few years older), allowing her parents from Shanghai to move in, cohabitating with her Aunt to take care of the kid, or sending our kid to be raised in China, etc. That her friend was going to introduce her to a new guy.

The sticking point of a kid needs explanation. Since she worked 7 days a week and took no days off, and was 40, I asked her "Can we really accomplish your goal? It will probably require fertility treatments and you will probably have to quit working. It may be pretty expensive and difficult. Have you thought this through? " I asked too many questions.

Because I made everything sound hopeless, she said she would be introduced to another guy. It was completely bullshit. There was ALWAYS the other guy, since before I returned.

Funny thing was this guy flipped out she had lied about her whereabouts when I was with her and I thought it very odd "Hey, why's he so jealous since you were only just introduced on the blind date arranged by your friend? "

He later took her cell and he looked at the numbers and called my friend up. He could never get over suspecting and distrusting her since he caught her lying (no shit).

Little called me and skyped me in a panic and asked me "do not talk with him. " little never told him the truth, that I was fucking her when she had told him she was "having dinner with friends" on a Saturday night.

A while later, he even called me and still thinks I am seeing her. But, I am not, and I felt sorry for the guy and said "I don't think she's seeing a guy #3, but she's not seeing me anymore. "

Shanghai little called me in a panic and was afraid I'd spill the beans probably about her grandiose plans. Later, she emailed me that I was horrible and I tried to destroy her because I had talked to the new boyfriend/sucker. She was horrified that he knew that we were both seeing her at the same time, for months at least. Worse, he was not getting that much pussy from her and he was unhappy. He was also shocked to hear what her big plans are.

So, I am now so FUCKING glad that I did not crumble to her pussy blackmail. I actually considered buying a house and relocating nearer to her business. I ruffled a ton of feathers here talking about it. This warning is only intended for guys who meet the huge number of single hot Chinese sweet girls and consider taking one home to the USA. Proceed with caution, and do not believe anything that sounds like bullshit, because it IS bullshit.

I have an friend over in Cupertino and his Chinese wife has been gone for most of the year and his boy is being raised by a nanny and grandmother. The mother hangs out with the kid probably a few hours a night. Now, Shanghai little thinks that this Chinese woman who is married but stays in Beijing is "very lucky". I said "Yeah, the person who is not very lucky is her sucker husband. I guess he's enjoying no pussy, no cooking and his son being raised by people who are not able to speak English. Sounds awesome! "

Moral: Deep down women are the same, but in my experience, Latinas are more emotional in their outlook towards other men, and much less venal. Just for laughs one day I looked just one free singles site and searched Shanghai for single women between 30-40 and I think I saw 12, 000 girls, for what it's worth they are out there looking around for a guy.

Full disclosure: I am not ugly, poor, fat, old or anything else. I have not fucked a zillion hookers, but when one travels, it's a shame not to.Information like these is great! I will be moving to Shanghai for 2 years soon and I was thinking of finding a girlfriend or wife there but what you are saying here seem to suggest that Chinese women are a No No?

[Simbasa 9]

Maggot firmly agrees, freebies don't complain, WGs do. Mainly cause very few WGs in China enjoy doing it. They presume they can finish the deal quickly or get away with below par performance by such a complain. Many a times Maggot was told "please cum quickly".Yes I think that many of them use the size excuse for whatever reason- they may be having a bad day and don't want sex, you smell bad, they think you're an asshole for saying something that they misinterpreted and want to get it over with, the list goes on.

I think it's probably easier to find a freebie who is not afraid of a big dick but at the same time, many Chinese girls never do 3somes, so a working girl would be more likely to do that. But my buddy has been turned down before, on the phone and in person. It's a no-win situation.

[Dash]

Information like these is great! I will be moving to Shanghai for 2 years soon and I was thinking of finding a girlfriend or wife there but what you are saying here seem to suggest that Chinese women are a No No?
They make good wives and girlfriends, but be aware the nicest sweetest girl there is capable of lies as much as the bitchy American girls. One you expect, the other is a surprise.

[Scoubidick]

What a slash, Dash!

Let's consider this is very informative at least. Nevetherless maybe at one time of another you forgot one thing is to god damn show who the Boss is. It does include anything that have a strong meta-communication without be violent or lyric. A Chinese pussy as a GF/Wife must be kept under pressure and one's don't have never to open doors that should not be opened. Keep asking what you need, keep recieve benefits instead of giving. Pound hard and restlessly evry day to impose your own rythm, teach her to shut the fuck up mouth close, break arguments by ignorance, disapear often home to get a blow job and don't wash yourself afterward, go single holydays without a phone number and don't give any financial benefit for a period of time. Trow her temporary out of the house with something like: "when you will be more reasonable, I may consider take you home again". Insist for a baby? Organise a date with a guy, and introduce her to him as the genitor for the kid. Never be offensive with words but act like a pure cold motherfucker, after several round of, it exist a probability that Your Gal will come back in the skin of humble traditionnal girl she should never has been allowed to leave.

Or she will run away, meaning in both case you were right. I am sorry to say that unfortunatly, Chinese girls are a step up more difficult to handle that some others, and some very strong abilities are neccessary for a man to keep good judgment and take right decisions. That said, a China Wife is certainly among the most devoted wife one kind find, and the more quiet too (means you can develop your own things without interferences). After that let's anyone judge if "devoted" and "detached" is enough to maintain love, that is another story, China is extremely Cupid now, its just a pure bullshit to figure out any kind of pure romance, it is on buisness now, so are the people both men and women, and everything layered arround prosperity and success, with no space anymore for whatever elese. Take it or leave it. Or take it, then leave it, as far as I can conclude after zillions that and that too.

Finally, just know that we all know and understand your thing.

[Mind Maggot]

Yes I think that many of them use the size excuse for whatever reason- they may be having a bad day and don't want sex, you smell bad, they think you're an asshole for saying something that they misinterpreted and want to get it over with, the list goes on.

I think it's probably easier to find a freebie who is not afraid of a big dick but at the same time, many Chinese girls never do 3somes, so a working girl would be more likely to do that. But my buddy has been turned down before, on the phone and in person. It's a no-win situation.Chinese are generally very secretive about their sex lives. 3Some is a big NO-NO for most girls, with very very few exceptions. But most WGs are very much willing to do 3some, not because they enjoy it, but because they can share their work. Its pretty much common in saunas. Be it 2 guys on 1 girl or 2 girls on 1 guy, only WGs can offer that. But freebies are different, they dont necessarily have sex just for the sake of having sex, again few exceptions, in most cases they see possibility of a long term relationship. So jealousy factor is certainly there when it comes to 3some.

[Mind Maggot]

Information like these is great! I will be moving to Shanghai for 2 years soon and I was thinking of finding a girlfriend or wife there but what you are saying here seem to suggest that Chinese women are a No No?Not really, good and bad women are everywhere. Chinese can be great wives or girlfriends, but Maggot hasnt seen many.

[Loveasiangirls]

Information like these is great! I will be moving to Shanghai for 2 years soon and I was thinking of finding a girlfriend or wife there but what you are saying here seem to suggest that Chinese women are a No No?

If you are going to get a serious GF in China the number one criteria is not her looks or her sex skills (although both should not be bad) but whether you can trust her.
If you want something long term you are safer with one who is educated, preferable abroad, has a decent job and possibly a foreign passport already.
If you want want just 2 years of fun then go for the young sexy one, or preferable, more than one.

[OldAsiaHand]

This is the epilogue of a long boring and to some annoying story of my girlfriend who moved to the USA from Shanghai. This is only intended for someone who is thinking of biting the biscuit or buying the cow=marrying a Chinese woman. Buyer beware.


Dash,

As you know, I am one of the annoyed ones, however, am compelled to put in my final 2 fen.

I am not surprised at all that she was lying and cheating on you with your attitude towards the whole thing. IMHO, you were trying to put your American values on a traditionally thinking Chinese girl. Her requests were not unusual given her age and cultural background.

She was just keeping her options open since you did not give her any sense of security, which is of prime importance to Chinese women looking for a long term relationships. Love, romance, sex, etc. are all secondary.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Blacklisted]

As usual I think you've hit the nail on the head there mate. It's a sad story and was obviously a painful experence, but definitley not the 'norm' and one would be smart to take as a story and not much more.

Chinese girls are the most amazing girls in my opinion and will give you their all if you let them.


Dash,

As you know, I am one of the annoyed ones, however, am compelled to put in my final 2 fen.

I am not surprised at all that she was lying and cheating on you with your attitude towards the whole thing. IMHO, you were trying to put your American values on a traditionally thinking Chinese girl. Her requests were not unusual given her age and cultural background.

She was just keeping her options open since you did not give her any sense of security, which is of prime importance to Chinese women looking for a long term relationships. Love, romance, sex, etc. are all secondary.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Dash]

Dash,

As you know, I am one of the annoyed ones, however, am compelled to put in my final 2 fen.

I am not surprised at all that she was lying and cheating on you with your attitude towards the whole thing. IMHO, you were trying to put your American values on a traditionally thinking Chinese girl. Her requests were not unusual given her age and cultural background.

She was just keeping her options open since you did not give her any sense of security, which is of prime importance to Chinese women looking for a long term relationships. Love, romance, sex, etc. are all secondary.

Just my POV.
OAH
I agree. I am quite aware of her need for financial security which I offered to her. She would have had her education, living and other expenses paid by me. She could have done anything she wished, and I would have paid for it.
However, my attitude was not underhanded and dishonest.
I also fully see her needs are at opposite of mine and also of Latinas, the other foreigners whom I have had relationships with.
Sorry to comment, but I have American values and I cherish them. I dislike underhandedness, sneakyness, lying, cheating.
Her defect was lack of communicating to me honestly what her goals were. Only when she had met some other guy did she ever mention to me what it was she wanted, what her goals are.
Perhaps some guys are able to understand and forgive lying by omission and outright lying. It's a little harder for me.
Thanks for your input.

[Dash]

As usual I think you've hit the nail on the head there mate. It's a sad story and was obviously a painful experence, but definitley not the 'norm' and one would be smart to take as a story and not much more.

Chinese girls are the most amazing girls in my opinion and will give you their all if you let them.

"If you let them" is incomplete, I believe it is "If you let them tell you what to do and how to live."
How is it going with your Chinese wife these days?

[Dash]

Sorry to continue,
I neglected to mention. Lil would never tell her age to the guy she went out with while ostensibly she was my "girlfriend".
He had indicated he had a strong desire to have a family, which was a strong selling point for Lil. But, he had made an assumption about her age. He thought she was in her late 20's=easy to be a mother. Later, she lied about her age to him. As in, she was a fucking LIAR to her possible mate for lifetime and father of her possible children. Oh, this must be a cultural quirk I should be sensitive to according to some here.
When her new guy called me in desperation over suspecting her seeing me or someone else, he was shocked to hear her true age. "Pal, if you are so intent on having a family, you better date someone of childbearing age."
Lying about yourself and lying to others is simply a "cultural trait" that I do not share and never will. I guess I also have a superior attitude because of it.

[Meiguoguizi]

I have American values and I cherish them.

duh. 'nuf said.

[Usbomber123]

Not really, good and bad women are everywhere. Chinese can be great wives or girlfriends, but Maggot hasnt seen many.So, we are confirming here that there are not many good Chinese wives or girlfirends?


They make good wives and girlfriends, but be aware the nicest sweetest girl there is capable of lies as much as the bitchy American girls. One you expect, the other is a surprise.Actually, I am sick of American girls and especially American Chinese girls who would not even set eyes on me as an American Chinese man!

Thought I would score better with the China Chinese.

[Fuzimiao]

Of course they don't expect you to remember!

fz

[BruceTea]

Of course they don't expect you to remember!




U may be right on this. I don't care much for Chinese-versions of Western holidays, but it's pretty clear that the main one is on Feb 14.

I was also told by a friend that it was last month...this is how confusing some holidays are. After texts to all my gals and even sending flowers to one, I now feel like a tool.

RainOut.

[Zhuren]

This is the epilogue of a long boring and to some annoying story of my girlfriend who moved to the USA from Shanghai. This is only intended for someone who is thinking of biting the biscuit or buying the cow=marrying a Chinese woman.

We've heard the same thing years ago, and then at regular intervals. Can you give it a rest, Dash? Or do we have to ask Jackson for at copypaste section?

You've had (maybe) one Chinese GF.

Most of us had several American GFs and wives.

If we would apply your logic, then ALL American women are money-grabbing b1tches that come with a legal team. (That's why some of us moved to Asia for good.)

This slant-eyed - bad, American values - good record is worn out. Entertain us with stories from S.O.B. , but spare us more of Lily, willya?

Get over it.

[Dash]

We've heard the same thing years ago, and then at regular intervals. Can you give it a rest, Dash? Or do we have to ask Jackson for at copypaste section?

You've had (maybe) one Chinese GF.

Most of us had several American GFs and wives.

If we would apply your logic, then ALL American women are money-grabbing b1tches that come with a legal team. (That's why some of us moved to Asia for good.)

This slant-eyed - bad, American values - good record is worn out. Entertain us with stories from S.O.B. , but spare us more of Lily, willya?

Get over it.
I am over it and "epilogue" means it's the last installment.
Within my post somewhere was my surprise that such a nice, kind, sweet Chinese woman was so capable of the same subterfuge that a bitchy nasty American woman is. This is actually the only thing I want to impart to the reader. Only those considering marrying a Chinese girl and bringing her to the states or Europe etc. need to even care about it. They may have great luck as long as they do as they are told by their woman from Shanghai. Does every reader realize that Shanghai women are famous for this trait? My results may have been unusual, and others results may be excellent, but there are guys out there who may travel to China looking for a bride and he may be in for a big surprise.
Personally I think Chinese girls are very nice, younger is better because the ones who are a little older had a harder childhood.

[Jamie5063]

"If you let them" is incomplete, I believe it is "If you let them tell you what to do and how to live."
How is it going with your Chinese wife these days?

My Chinese wife is great she even went to the doctor and got some tablets for me after she got an infection which I (or one you gave her) must have got somewhere else opps! A polite "You need to take these the doctor said" is all I got from her try that in the states.
I also had a shanghai girl once but it was not too hard to work out she was a ***** I've had 2 unbelievable looking girls under 21 this month chat me up. Took out a 29,35 and 39 year old this week as well. The 29 year old is a 10 with a doctors degree, She did dump me thank god because I'm married today, and she was getting too attached. What is the point of complaining when you would never get anywhere near such good looking chicks in the states. Its luxury here lad, you may get hit by a bus tomorrow(driven by the wife maybe)Enjoy it while you can.

[Mind Maggot]

So, we are confirming here that there are not many good Chinese wives or girlfirends?Negative. Has anyone seen a country full of good wives or girlfriends?

[Dash]

My Chinese wife is great she even went to the doctor and got some tablets for me after she got an infection which I (or one you gave her) must have got somewhere else opps! A polite "You need to take these the doctor said" is all I got from her try that in the states.
I also had a shanghai girl once but it was not too hard to work out she was a ***** I've had 2 unbelievable looking girls under 21 this month chat me up. Took out a 29,35 and 39 year old this week as well. The 29 year old is a 10 with a doctors degree, She did dump me thank god because I'm married today, and she was getting too attached. What is the point of complaining when you would never get anywhere near such good looking chicks in the states. Its luxury here lad, you may get hit by a bus tomorrow(driven by the wife maybe)Enjoy it while you can.
I totally believe you.
The difference is I am living in the states, not China.
The fact there are chicks in abundance keeps your wife more attentive to you possibly. It's impossible that she does not know you have others talking to you, and this may keep her honest.
Thanks for your comment. Have a good time in the middle kingdom. I'm hitting the beach now.

[Andreas Wang]

Information like these is great! I will be moving to Shanghai for 2 years soon and I was thinking of finding a girlfriend or wife there but what you are saying here seem to suggest that Chinese women are a No No?Not exactly.

Being a pussy-dependent chump is a no-no. Anywhere.

You'll only get as much bullshit as you put up with and encourage.


... my surprise that such a nice, kind, sweet Chinese woman was so capable of the same subterfuge that a bitchy nasty American woman is.
And the only constant there being ... you. Ever considered that American women walk all over you because you let them? Chinese ones play you because you are easy to play?

American values ... pft. Your 'values' at best and since when has gullibility been a value please?

[Dyson]

I'd like some advice please.

I am married to a Chinese woman and we have children together. My company is wanting me to return to China and I have several problems with my wife that are regularly discussed within this forum. If I move back to China and my wife does a runner with our British children, can I get them back? China is not a signatory of the Hague Convention on child abduction and of course I am not subject to British laws on child abduction outside of Britain. Turning down my company's request can be an option but I'd like to try to find out what my options are before I decide to do that.

The quote below from a forum member sums Chinese women up very well!

"If you let them" is incomplete, I believe it is "If you let them tell you what to do and how to live."

Anyone considering taking a Chinese wife should think again. They are hard work and throw in the demands of Dad and the rest of the family who believe that western man is the answer to their retirement and housing plans don't even think about it. It is a constant battle fending of regular scams to rip-off the husband.

[White Dragon]

"If you let them" is incomplete, I believe it is "If you let them tell you what to do and how to live."

Anyone considering taking a Chinese wife should think again. They are hard work and throw in the demands of Dad and the rest of the family who believe that western man is the answer to their retirement and housing plans don't even think about it. It is a constant battle fending of regular scams to rip-off the husband.That's your experience. Maybe you just choose the wrong girl.

[Clean Gene]

My Chinese wife is great she even went to the doctor and got some tablets for me after she got an infection.

My Chinese wife complained of her pain and of the 'cost' of the pills. I got her to get some more for me and for my Bay Area GF. (I had brought the bug back to my USA home. Careless.) My Chinese wife did not complain of my behavior. She only said she would not have married me if she knew my 'thing' was not for her alone. No response was expected or given.

[Sammy_T]

I'd like some advice please.

I am married to a Chinese woman and we have children together. My company is wanting me to return to China and I have several problems with my wife that are regularly discussed within this forum. If I move back to China and my wife does a runner with our British children, can I get them back? China is not a signatory of the Hague Convention on child abduction and of course I am not subject to British laws on child abduction outside of Britain. Turning down my company's request can be an option but I'd like to try to find out what my options are before I decide to do that.

The quote below from a forum member sums Chinese women up very well!

"If you let them" is incomplete, I believe it is "If you let them tell you what to do and how to live."

Anyone considering taking a Chinese wife should think again. They are hard work and throw in the demands of Dad and the rest of the family who believe that western man is the answer to their retirement and housing plans don't even think about it. It is a constant battle fending of regular scams to rip-off the husband.First, for the record, I have many western friends who have married Chinese women, and they have not had any problem at all. The main commonality is that they have all lived in China for 5+ years, and been involved in several relationships with Chinese women. I guess you could say they knew what they were getting into before they got married. In addition, they did not meet their wives on the internet or in a bar - they met them via normal interaction, and the wives tend to be much younger (less than 30 years old). I think the older a Chinese woman gets, regardless of occupation, the more jaded they become.

As all things in China there are the laws, and reality. Under the law if you are married then she cannot simply take the children. See the following article describing the legal situation: http://www.international-divorce.com/d-china.htm

That being said, if she wants to run off to her home town with the kids you are going to be at a detriment. Do you speak Chinese? Know where her home town is located? Have you met her family? Were you married in China, or the UK? I saw one post that said that if you were married in the UK, than a divorce in China would not be recognized. I assume the reverse it also true - if you were married in China then a divorce in the UK would not be recognized.

Even though you would have the law on your side, the individuals who enforce the law will be on the side of your Chinese wife. I would accept the position, but also begin discussions with a Chinese law firm to ensure that if she pulls any shanagans you will be ready to handle it.

If you guys are truly unhappy the maybe you just need to address the issue, without involving the kids. Tell her you understand she is not happy, and if she wants to leave that is OK, but that you would like to share in custody of the children. As I am sure you can imagine, the less drama injected into the situation the better, and it will of course be better for the children as well. If you are on an expat package where your company will pay for your kids to attend an international school then you certainly have the upper hand. I cannot imagine you wife would argue that your kids would be better off in a local Chinese school in some small village rather than attending an international school. You could probably work it out where they spend the school year with you, and holidays / summer vacation with her. This way everyone is a winner. Of course, I have not met the Chinese yet who understands the concept of a win-win relationship, so don't expect too much!

Good Luck!

Sammy

[Jamie5063]

I totally believe you.
The difference is I am living in the states, not China.
The fact there are chicks in abundance keeps your wife more attentive to you possibly. It's impossible that she does not know you have others talking to you, and this may keep her honest.
Thanks for your comment. Have a good time in the middle kingdom. I'm hitting the beach now.
Thanks Dash
Its quite true, if I'm on QQ she never looks at the computer screen same on Skype she uses it and I have some female "friends only" on there but never any questions. If she uses Skype when I'm on the computer she turns her Chair away. Of course she also can say what she likes to her friends and I have not a clue.I just hear Lawei pop up now and then. Like all China exports its never as good as the sample

[Meiguoguizi]

no offense gentlemen but the only activity more stupid than looking for marital advice on an international sex guide forum is looking for a husband here.
I'm sure all your wives are lucky gals.

[Mind Maggot]

no offense gentlemen but the only activity more stupid than looking for marital advice on an international sex guide forum is looking for a husband here.

I'm sure all your wives are lucky gals.With due respect Sir, Maggot doesnt agree. Most gentlemen here dealt with tens and hundreds of women in their lives, they should know well how to deal with women.

[Mind Maggot]

Anyone considering taking a Chinese wife should think again. They are hard work and throw in the demands of Dad and the rest of the family who believe that western man is the answer to their retirement and housing plans don't even think about it. It is a constant battle fending of regular scams to rip-off the husband.Its very much unlikely that she will run away since her family sees you as a bank. No matter how many times you fended off scams, they kept coming back. There is a possibility that your wife doesnt like it, but for Chinese girls, parents are always more important than husband.

Maggot firmly agrees with every word Sammy T said.

[Dyson]

First, for the record, I have many western friends who have married Chinese women, and they have not had any problem at all. The main commonality is that they have all lived in China for 5+ years, and been involved in several relationships with Chinese women. I guess you could say they knew what they were getting into before they got married. In addition, they did not meet their wives on the internet or in a bar - they met them via normal interaction, and the wives tend to be much younger (less than 30 years old). I think the older a Chinese woman gets, regardless of occupation, the more jaded they become.

As all things in China there are the laws, and reality. Under the law if you are married then she cannot simply take the children. See the following article describing the legal situation: http://www.international-divorce.com/d-china.htm

That being said, if she wants to run off to her home town with the kids you are going to be at a detriment. Do you speak Chinese? Know where her home town is located? Have you met her family? Were you married in China, or the UK? I saw one post that said that if you were married in the UK, than a divorce in China would not be recognized. I assume the reverse it also true - if you were married in China then a divorce in the UK would not be recognized.

Even though you would have the law on your side, the individuals who enforce the law will be on the side of your Chinese wife. I would accept the position, but also begin discussions with a Chinese law firm to ensure that if she pulls any shanagans you will be ready to handle it.

If you guys are truly unhappy the maybe you just need to address the issue, without involving the kids. Tell her you understand she is not happy, and if she wants to leave that is OK, but that you would like to share in custody of the children. As I am sure you can imagine, the less drama injected into the situation the better, and it will of course be better for the children as well. If you are on an expat package where your company will pay for your kids to attend an international school then you certainly have the upper hand. I cannot imagine you wife would argue that your kids would be better off in a local Chinese school in some small village rather than attending an international school. You could probably work it out where they spend the school year with you, and holidays / summer vacation with her. This way everyone is a winner. Of course, I have not met the Chinese yet who understands the concept of a win-win relationship, so don't expect too much!

Good Luck!

SammyMany thanks Sammy T for your informative reply. What's done is done and there's no point in whinging about it. The important thing is that I have children to consider and I am trying to get all my ducks in a row before I decide whether or not to jump into the fire and return to China. I was married in China and I do speak some Mandarin and I do have some friends in China that I can call upon if the shit hits the fan. I have met my wife's family and I do know where her parents and close relatives all live.

[Dash]

Not exactly.

Being a pussy-dependent chump is a no-no. Anywhere.

You'll only get as much bullshit as you put up with and encourage.


And the only constant there being ... you. Ever considered that American women walk all over you because you let them? Chinese ones play you because you are easy to play?

American values ... pft. Your 'values' at best and since when has gullibility been a value please?
Who said that American women walk all over me? American women are simply not as demure and sweet as the Chinese I have met, and so if they behave agressively it does not come as a surprise.
As far as the Chinese girl goes, I am guessing that her Confucian upbringing influences her interaction, which is pleasant, but deep down she was sneaky and venal. Typical or not, western or American men should be cautious.
I was lied to but do not consider myself gullible.
American girls are straight up: "I met a guy, I will not be your girlfriend. Good luck."
re: American values means I am not obligated to fully adopt her customs in my own country. It also means direct, straight talk and honesty. In fact, Lil herself knew this.

[Bob Builder]

Who said that American women walk all over me? American women are simply not as demure and sweet as the Chinese I have met, and so if they behave agressively it does not come as a surprise.
As far as the Chinese girl goes, I am guessing that her Confucian upbringing influences her interaction, which is pleasant, but deep down she was sneaky and venal. Typical or not, western or American men should be cautious.
I was lied to but do not consider myself gullible.
American girls are straight up: "I met a guy, I will not be your girlfriend. Good luck."
re: American values means I am not obligated to fully adopt her customs in my own country. It also means direct, straight talk and honesty. In fact, Lil herself knew this.

Couldn't you find an American girl that would say yes?

You used your little head to do the thinking at the beginning and now you use your big head to overanalyze what happens afterwards. Now only if you used your big head to do the thinking at the beginning!

[Dash]

Couldn't you find an American girl that would say yes?

You used your little head to do the thinking at the beginning and now you use your big head to overanalyze what happens afterwards. Now only if you used your big head to do the thinking at the beginning!
Maybe I am overanalyzing. I had no previous experience with a girl from Shanghai China. So, my big head today has learned. Besides, the little head is smarter actually. Pussy=good, other baloney interfering with the pussy=bad. If my relationship is beyond the understanding of the little head, maybe it's not worth the trouble.

[Mock A Bee]

Maybe I am overanalyzing. I had no previous experience with a girl from Shanghai China. So, my big head today has learned. Besides, the little head is smarter actually. Pussy=good, other baloney interfering with the pussy=bad. If my relationship is beyond the understanding of the little head, maybe it's not worth the trouble.


The Blackwidow spider is so named because after it copulates with a male spider, it kills the male by biting its head off... ergo, Shanghainese women = Blackwidow spiders.

Yes, this is a rather dramatic analogy, however, there are enough evil Shanghainese women out there who are Blackwidow spiders, enough to spoil the soup for everyone, giving Shanghainese women a bad name.

Buyer beware!

MAB

[Middleway]

Yo, bros

I need some feedback. I went into a seedy KTV in an upscale neighborhood alone and with no Chinese language. I got a room for 100 w/ an OK girl @200. She spoke a little English. A short time later I arranged for her to go back to my hotel @500. But I was not yet fully agreed with the KTV about the room, and some disagreeable things happened. The end result was that they asked me to leave without taking any money. I had already drunk some beer; the girl a drink too.

Here's the scoop. After the basic KTV arrangement was in place, girl sitting next to me, my order for two beers made, a waiter came in with a tray of 12 bottles of beer. He was expecting that I take them. I strongly balked; the girl told him to take all back except two bottles. Next he came in with two big trays of snacks; I balked except for one small bowl of a snack the girl wanted. He took back one tray but left the other tray.

She wanted me to pay 100 but I asked why so suddenly and why in advance. Then due to a mistake of mine about time, I mistakenly thought I was only to get 30 min. in the room but actually 1 hour, (until it closed). She walked out. I then went to the front spoke with some staff (one knew a few words in English.) A bill was soon given to me with a number of charges, some should not be for me.

She came back, we went into the room to check over the bill. I balked about several items---including a small tissue box, a couple of food items I don’t think I even saw. Ok, ok, they said. They erased them. But now they wanted 200 in advance. Before me stood the boss and his assistant, a pretty girl with a scowl. She did much of the pushing me for money. I then asked them through my girl to step out of the room for a moment. I wanted to talk with my girl. If I could be convinced that she would come back to the hotel, then I could accept the KTV offer/demand.

I am unsure exactly why, but my girl left the room with the rest of us in it. The three of us took it to the front. I wanted the girl back. They wanted their money. Eventually they told me just to leave. I never got out of line and was cool headed.

But I felt that if I accepted those things –the snack trays, etc., I might be put in a position of getting an outlandish bill at the end. Additionally, the girl might have just been stringing me along. So I would be left with no girl and a huge bill to pay.

Overall I don’t think that these people were really bad—like dirtbags or thieves—but bringing 12 bottles of beer when I ordered just 2 through the girl? (There was no mistake in order.) Am I just paranoid or is this how Chinese run KTV’s? (Originally all the charges they told me were as I listed at the top of this post.)

[Chill Out]

Maggot firmly agrees, freebies dont complain, WGs do. Mainly cause very few WGs in China enjoy doing it. They presume they can finish the deal quickly or get away with below par performance by such a complain. Many a times Maggot was told "please cum quickly".I agree with this. So how do you deal with these complaints from WGs? Is it simply a case of them trying to take advantage, and do you have to "show them who is boss" so to speak, tell them you paid for the service, and keep doing what you want, ignoring the (fake) complaints?

[Henhao888]

Yo, bros

I need some feedback. I went into a seedy KTV in an upscale neighborhood alone and with no Chinese language. I got a room for 100 w/ an OK girl @200. She spoke a little English. A short time later I arranged for her to go back to my hotel @500. But I was not yet fully agreed with the KTV about the room, and some disagreeable things happened. The end result was that they asked me to leave without taking any money. I had already drunk some beer; the girl a drink too.

Here's the scoop. After the basic KTV arrangement was in place, girl sitting next to me, my order for two beers made, a waiter came in with a tray of 12 bottles of beer. He was expecting that I take them. I strongly balked; the girl told him to take all back except two bottles. Next he came in with two big trays of snacks; I balked except for one small bowl of a snack the girl wanted. He took back one tray but left the other tray.

She wanted me to pay 100 but I asked why so suddenly and why in advance. Then due to a mistake of mine about time, I mistakenly thought I was only to get 30 min. in the room but actually 1 hour, (until it closed). She walked out. I then went to the front spoke with some staff (one knew a few words in English.) A bill was soon given to me with a number of charges, some should not be for me.

She came back, we went into the room to check over the bill. I balked about several items---including a small tissue box, a couple of food items I don’t think I even saw. Ok, ok, they said. They erased them. But now they wanted 200 in advance. Before me stood the boss and his assistant, a pretty girl with a scowl. She did much of the pushing me for money. I then asked them through my girl to step out of the room for a moment. I wanted to talk with my girl. If I could be convinced that she would come back to the hotel, then I could accept the KTV offer/demand.

I am unsure exactly why, but my girl left the room with the rest of us in it. The three of us took it to the front. I wanted the girl back. They wanted their money. Eventually they told me just to leave. I never got out of line and was cool headed.

But I felt that if I accepted those things –the snack trays, etc., I might be put in a position of getting an outlandish bill at the end. Additionally, the girl might have just been stringing me along. So I would be left with no girl and a huge bill to pay.

Overall I don’t think that these people were really bad—like dirtbags or thieves—but bringing 12 bottles of beer when I ordered just 2 through the girl? (There was no mistake in order.) Am I just paranoid or is this how Chinese run KTV’s? (Originally all the charges they told me were as I listed at the top of this post.)I've heard many worse stories than yours. Beware of the Chinese coffee shops and KTV. They will bring you things you did not order, and then hand you outrageous bills.

If the place feels suspicious, always demand to know how much up front. If they try to pull something like bringing 12 bottles, just walk out. You can easily find a better girl someplace else. The girl is always in on it.

If there is a problem, call the police at 119 immediately. Tell them you are at KTV being charged for things you did not order. The police are very concerned about foreigners being ripped off like this. Bad image for the city. Many worse horror stories in the newspapers.

[Just Seven]

If she is pulling that crap, tell her you will talk to the mamasan. However this is already after the fact. I have started getting into the habit of mentioning my very big little brother to girls before we go anywhere. If they still agree to go and then cause trouble, I just go back to the mama/papa and tell them and get a different girl.

It can't be a veiled threat. The mamasan does not care which girl you take or pay just that you pay A girl. The girl cares which girl you take. I feel this is your only avenue of recourse.

[Just Seven]

Yo, bros

I need some feedback. I went into a seedy KTV in an upscale neighborhood alone and with no Chinese language. I got a room for 100 w/ an OK girl @200. She spoke a little English. A short time later I arranged for her to go back to my hotel @500. But I was not yet fully agreed with the KTV about the room, and some disagreeable things happened. The end result was that they asked me to leave without taking any money. I had already drunk some beer; the girl a drink too.

Here's the scoop. After the basic KTV arrangement was in place, girl sitting next to me, my order for two beers made, a waiter came in with a tray of 12 bottles of beer. He was expecting that I take them. I strongly balked; the girl told him to take all back except two bottles. Next he came in with two big trays of snacks; I balked except for one small bowl of a snack the girl wanted. He took back one tray but left the other tray.

She wanted me to pay 100 but I asked why so suddenly and why in advance. Then due to a mistake of mine about time, I mistakenly thought I was only to get 30 min. in the room but actually 1 hour, (until it closed). She walked out. I then went to the front spoke with some staff (one knew a few words in English.) A bill was soon given to me with a number of charges, some should not be for me.

She came back, we went into the room to check over the bill. I balked about several items---including a small tissue box, a couple of food items I don’t think I even saw. Ok, ok, they said. They erased them. But now they wanted 200 in advance. Before me stood the boss and his assistant, a pretty girl with a scowl. She did much of the pushing me for money. I then asked them through my girl to step out of the room for a moment. I wanted to talk with my girl. If I could be convinced that she would come back to the hotel, then I could accept the KTV offer/demand.

I am unsure exactly why, but my girl left the room with the rest of us in it. The three of us took it to the front. I wanted the girl back. They wanted their money. Eventually they told me just to leave. I never got out of line and was cool headed.

But I felt that if I accepted those things –the snack trays, etc., I might be put in a position of getting an outlandish bill at the end. Additionally, the girl might have just been stringing me along. So I would be left with no girl and a huge bill to pay.

Overall I don’t think that these people were really bad—like dirtbags or thieves—but bringing 12 bottles of beer when I ordered just 2 through the girl? (There was no mistake in order.) Am I just paranoid or is this how Chinese run KTV’s? (Originally all the charges they told me were as I listed at the top of this post.)Most of the KTVs in the smaller areas that I have been to do not sell single bottles of beer. Or if they do the pricing structure is like this: One bottle of Beer 40 rmb, or 12 + however many "free" Bottles of beer 100 RMB. As for the snack trays and tissues, some places nickel and dime you. Thats all part of the fee for the room. It is a combination of healthy paranoia and a small learning curve. If you live in the area, I would attempt to call them and speak with someone that knows a little bit of english and explain the situation, I am sure after a bit of clarification they would enjoy your company again.

As for paying the girl, you always do that at the end. If theres some sort of barfine or she tells you she has to pay the mamasan. She's just trying to milk you. Again, in the smaller areas that I have been to, she can pay the barfine or her mama when she gets back. And usually mamasan fee is included in the 2/5/8 or whatever she is charging you (the #/#/# system explains sitting/short time/long time fees)

[Mind Maggot]

I agree with this. So how do you deal with these complaints from WGs? Is it simply a case of them trying to take advantage, and do you have to "show them who is boss" so to speak, tell them you paid for the service, and keep doing what you want, ignoring the (fake) complaints?Depends on the situation of course. Sometimes Maggot just smiles and ignores, sometimes mildly threats of leaving and talking to the papasan or mamasan or manager, sometimes assures the girl that there is nothing to be afraid of. After all its fake, just how you manage to get the job done.

[Loveasiangirls]

Getting a room in a KTV for one person, isn't that unusual?


Yo, bros

I need some feedback. I went into a seedy KTV in an upscale neighborhood alone and with no Chinese language. I got a room for 100 w/ an OK girl @200. She spoke a little English. A short time later I arranged for her to go back to my hotel @500. But I was not yet fully agreed with the KTV about the room, and some disagreeable things happened. The end result was that they asked me to leave without taking any money. I had already drunk some beer; the girl a drink too.

Here's the scoop. After the basic KTV arrangement was in place, girl sitting next to me, my order for two beers made, a waiter came in with a tray of 12 bottles of beer. He was expecting that I take them. I strongly balked; the girl told him to take all back except two bottles. Next he came in with two big trays of snacks; I balked except for one small bowl of a snack the girl wanted. He took back one tray but left the other tray.

She wanted me to pay 100 but I asked why so suddenly and why in advance. Then due to a mistake of mine about time, I mistakenly thought I was only to get 30 min. in the room but actually 1 hour, (until it closed). She walked out. I then went to the front spoke with some staff (one knew a few words in English.) A bill was soon given to me with a number of charges, some should not be for me.

She came back, we went into the room to check over the bill. I balked about several items---including a small tissue box, a couple of food items I don’t think I even saw. Ok, ok, they said. They erased them. But now they wanted 200 in advance. Before me stood the boss and his assistant, a pretty girl with a scowl. She did much of the pushing me for money. I then asked them through my girl to step out of the room for a moment. I wanted to talk with my girl. If I could be convinced that she would come back to the hotel, then I could accept the KTV offer/demand.

I am unsure exactly why, but my girl left the room with the rest of us in it. The three of us took it to the front. I wanted the girl back. They wanted their money. Eventually they told me just to leave. I never got out of line and was cool headed.

But I felt that if I accepted those things –the snack trays, etc., I might be put in a position of getting an outlandish bill at the end. Additionally, the girl might have just been stringing me along. So I would be left with no girl and a huge bill to pay.

Overall I don’t think that these people were really bad—like dirtbags or thieves—but bringing 12 bottles of beer when I ordered just 2 through the girl? (There was no mistake in order.) Am I just paranoid or is this how Chinese run KTV’s? (Originally all the charges they told me were as I listed at the top of this post.)

[Bob Builder]

You don't speak the language and don't know KTV etiquette.

Most KTVs have a minimum charge for rooms which includes a minimum charge for snacks, tissues, etc. So let's say the minimum room charge was RMB280, you would have been charged this whether you drank all the beers or not and it may have covered all the beers they brought out for you.

If this was a real rip off joint, you would not have been able to leave as they would have called in a gang of heavies to beat the money out of you.

YOUR BAD! Learn the language and get someone local to take you KTVing next time. After all the horror stories about going to KTVs and you still went solo? Lucky that this place sounds legit or you story may have read that you got a beating, they took your ATM card and cleared out your account and you're missing teeth.



Yo, bros

I need some feedback. I went into a seedy KTV in an upscale neighborhood alone and with no Chinese language. I got a room for 100 w/ an OK girl @200. She spoke a little English. A short time later I arranged for her to go back to my hotel @500. But I was not yet fully agreed with the KTV about the room, and some disagreeable things happened. The end result was that they asked me to leave without taking any money. I had already drunk some beer; the girl a drink too.

Here's the scoop. After the basic KTV arrangement was in place, girl sitting next to me, my order for two beers made, a waiter came in with a tray of 12 bottles of beer. He was expecting that I take them. I strongly balked; the girl told him to take all back except two bottles. Next he came in with two big trays of snacks; I balked except for one small bowl of a snack the girl wanted. He took back one tray but left the other tray.

She wanted me to pay 100 but I asked why so suddenly and why in advance. Then due to a mistake of mine about time, I mistakenly thought I was only to get 30 min. in the room but actually 1 hour, (until it closed). She walked out. I then went to the front spoke with some staff (one knew a few words in English.) A bill was soon given to me with a number of charges, some should not be for me.

She came back, we went into the room to check over the bill. I balked about several items---including a small tissue box, a couple of food items I don’t think I even saw. Ok, ok, they said. They erased them. But now they wanted 200 in advance. Before me stood the boss and his assistant, a pretty girl with a scowl. She did much of the pushing me for money. I then asked them through my girl to step out of the room for a moment. I wanted to talk with my girl. If I could be convinced that she would come back to the hotel, then I could accept the KTV offer/demand.

I am unsure exactly why, but my girl left the room with the rest of us in it. The three of us took it to the front. I wanted the girl back. They wanted their money. Eventually they told me just to leave. I never got out of line and was cool headed.

But I felt that if I accepted those things –the snack trays, etc., I might be put in a position of getting an outlandish bill at the end. Additionally, the girl might have just been stringing me along. So I would be left with no girl and a huge bill to pay.

Overall I don’t think that these people were really bad—like dirtbags or thieves—but bringing 12 bottles of beer when I ordered just 2 through the girl? (There was no mistake in order.) Am I just paranoid or is this how Chinese run KTV’s? (Originally all the charges they told me were as I listed at the top of this post.)

[Fuzimiao]

You don't speak the language and don't know KTV etiquette.

The truth I'm afraid, my GF is Karaoke crazy, we have a professional outfit at home, but the neighbours.....

We often visit smaller, sleazy KTV's. We order a basic package for 300 rmb.
6 large bottles of beer, 4 tins of coconut juice, fruit, popcorn, and sunflower seed, and not to forget the room and Karaoke facilities until closing time at 2.00 am, hardly a rip off!
fz

[Sammon]

Yo, bros

I need some feedback. I went into a seedy KTV in an upscale neighborhood alone and with no Chinese language. I got a room for 100 w/ an OK girl @200. She spoke a little English. A short time later I arranged for her to go back to my hotel @500. But I was not yet fully agreed with the KTV about the room, and some disagreeable things happened. The end result was that they asked me to leave without taking any money. I had already drunk some beer; the girl a drink too.

Here's the scoop. After the basic KTV arrangement was in place, girl sitting next to me, my order for two beers made, a waiter came in with a tray of 12 bottles of beer. He was expecting that I take them. I strongly balked; the girl told him to take all back except two bottles. Next he came in with two big trays of snacks; I balked except for one small bowl of a snack the girl wanted. He took back one tray but left the other tray.

She wanted me to pay 100 but I asked why so suddenly and why in advance. Then due to a mistake of mine about time, I mistakenly thought I was only to get 30 min. in the room but actually 1 hour, (until it closed). She walked out. I then went to the front spoke with some staff (one knew a few words in English.) A bill was soon given to me with a number of charges, some should not be for me.

She came back, we went into the room to check over the bill. I balked about several items---including a small tissue box, a couple of food items I don’t think I even saw. Ok, ok, they said. They erased them. But now they wanted 200 in advance. Before me stood the boss and his assistant, a pretty girl with a scowl. She did much of the pushing me for money. I then asked them through my girl to step out of the room for a moment. I wanted to talk with my girl. If I could be convinced that she would come back to the hotel, then I could accept the KTV offer/demand.

I am unsure exactly why, but my girl left the room with the rest of us in it. The three of us took it to the front. I wanted the girl back. They wanted their money. Eventually they told me just to leave. I never got out of line and was cool headed.

But I felt that if I accepted those things –the snack trays, etc., I might be put in a position of getting an outlandish bill at the end. Additionally, the girl might have just been stringing me along. So I would be left with no girl and a huge bill to pay.

Overall I don’t think that these people were really bad—like dirtbags or thieves—but bringing 12 bottles of beer when I ordered just 2 through the girl? (There was no mistake in order.) Am I just paranoid or is this how Chinese run KTV’s? (Originally all the charges they told me were as I listed at the top of this post.)
I have been to many KTV joints in Shenzhen. Some expensive with friends and some very cheap ones alone. Why Alone? because I just want to look for a nice girl to take home as soon as possible. There many nice girls in KTV places. When you have friends it is hard to get away till they are done with singing etc.
It is better to bargain at the door say I want a room with six beers. Once agreed for the price they will take you to a room. You need to ask the mamasan to bring the girls in . They bring in batches. Pick one you like. Once you pick the going rate is 200 RM for the whole time you are there. If you do not get the vibe from the girl you can change but it will cost 200 RMB every time you pick a girl.
They will bring unsolicited food, drinks continuosly to which you flatly say no.
Depending on the girl some girls drink like fish. Their job is to make you spend lots of money in that joint. Most are very good singers. Irrespective of your original budget you always end up paying more. It is like you get caught up in the moment.
I have had great experiences in KTV. The girls tend to be younger and prettier. Most can atleast speak little english. It is always better to spend more money otherwise the girl may refuse to go with you thinking you are a cheap charlie.

[BruceTea]

Most KTVs have a minimum charge for rooms which includes a minimum charge for snacks, tissues, etc. So let's say the minimum room charge was RMB280, you would have been charged this whether you drank all the beers or not and it may have covered all the beers they brought out for you.

There are also bs charges such as moon cake charge, entertainment charge, etc. etc. Not all at once, but little bs stuff that cost 20 to 100 rmb that adds up if you don't notice. Even if you do, they'll just say it's standard and since it's opened or charged across the board for all customers, you gonna have to pay it. Not fun keeping track of these things as they won't mention it, but just stick it on the bill.

but most times, the minimum is just a number to get you in the door and open the ktv room. it's never the price you pay.

[Bob Builder]

There are also bs charges such as moon cake charge, entertainment charge, etc. etc. Not all at once, but little bs stuff that cost 20 to 100 rmb that adds up if you don't notice. Even if you do, they'll just say it's standard and since it's opened or charged across the board for all customers, you gonna have to pay it. Not fun keeping track of these things as they won't mention it, but just stick it on the bill.

but most times, the minimum is just a number to get you in the door and open the ktv room. it's never the price you pay.

The key to KTVing in China is to only go where someone has been before and is a regular. I don't get charged all these charges that you have mentioned. One place I go to has a minimum of charge of RMB480 for a medium room and charges RMB78 for all the snacks, tissues, etc. on the table, nothing else and you have to sign for everthing else they charge for.

Maybe you are getting charged from the "Lao Wai" Menu.

I never get to pay the minimum anyway because we normally drink way over the minimum charge.

Now lets put what Middleway did in another setting. Let's say he was a Chinese guy who did not speak any or very little English and went to a strip club or any other similar "entertainment" establishment in the USA. Sat with a "hostess", had a few drinks and caused a fuss, refusing to pay the bill. Would he have been let go so easily or another statistic at the local ER?

My friend had a similar problem when he took a delegation of China officials to a club in London, England. When the bill came, the drinks the hostess ordered were very expensive to say the least and they were surrounded by the bouncers. My friend then was escorted to an ATM to get enough cash for the bill. So this does not only happen in China.

If anything by leaving the KTV as he did, he ripped them off as he did not even pay for the beers he did drink.

[Sammy_T]

The key to KTVing in China is to only go where someone has been before and is a regular. I don't get charged all these charges that you have mentioned. One place I go to has a minimum of charge of RMB480 for a medium room and charges RMB78 for all the snacks, tissues, etc. on the table, nothing else and you have to sign for everthing else they charge for.

Maybe you are getting charged from the "Lao Wai" Menu.

I never get to pay the minimum anyway because we normally drink way over the minimum charge.

Now lets put what Middleway did in another setting. Let's say he was a Chinese guy who did not speak any or very little English and went to a strip club or any other similar "entertainment" establishment in the USA. Sat with a "hostess", had a few drinks and caused a fuss, refusing to pay the bill. Would he have been let go so easily or another statistic at the local ER?

My friend had a similar problem when he took a delegation of China officials to a club in London, England. When the bill came, the drinks the hostess ordered were very expensive to say the least and they were surrounded by the bouncers. My friend then was escorted to an ATM to get enough cash for the bill. So this does not only happen in China.

If anything by leaving the KTV as he did, he ripped them off as he did not even pay for the beers he did drink.I agree with Bob. KTVs in Asia are a unique experience. If you do not understand the rules then you are not going to get anything out of it anyway. Bob's comparison to a strip club in the USA is very accurate. The main difference is that KTVs are a "group" sport. No, I do not mean that they are big gang-bang fests, but from a cost perspective it is much more cost effective when several guys go in on a room together. If you are just wanting to meet a girl and take her out, don't bother getting a room. Every KTV will have a common sitting area. Some may even have a floor show, but even if the common sitting area is empty the mommy will bring you a girl to sit with you if you ask.

A rip-off in my opinion is when you are charged several thousand RMB for a couple of drinks. Was Middleway's KTV trying to get as much money out of him as possible - yes. Were they trying to rip him off? Not in my opinion. When I read he left without paying anything I felt, like Bob, that he ripped them off.

I am always happy to hit a KTV with friends, as long as there is little to no singing involved! :)

Sammy

[Middleway]

You don't speak the language and don't know KTV etiquette. ...YOUR BAD! Learn the language and get someone local to take you KTVing next time. Bb, I appreciate you taking the time to respond but your quote above is not appreciated. I speak other languages, ones that you probably don't. And if you were in my turf, you would make the same mistakes as I in yours.

We all have to start somewhere-often at point zero. Actually despite my knowing zero Chinese, being a complete newbie, and going out alone, overall I have done very well for myself in China during the short visits there.

I still regret the failed KTV that I posted about. But often learning comes to trial and error learning. BB, surely the tables would be reversed, if you came to my turf. But I would never tell you "learn the language and the KTV rules. " The newbie can only do so through direct experience.

[Middleway]

Sammy, well said, well. Let me mention though, if I ripped them off then it was unintentional. But more relevant is the fact that no sooner had I sat down, they were trying to unload cases of beer on me. It takes two to tango. They know what they were doing surely. So while I share responsibility for the outcome, it was not all my fault.


I agree with Bob. KTVs in Asia are a unique experience. If you do not understand the rules then you are not going to get anything out of it anyway. Bob's comparison to a strip club in the USA is very accurate. The main difference is that KTVs are a "group" sport. No, I do not mean that they are big gang-bang fests, but from a cost perspective it is much more cost effective when several guys go in on a room together. If you are just wanting to meet a girl and take her out, don't bother getting a room. Every KTV will have a common sitting area. Some may even have a floor show, but even if the common sitting area is empty the mommy will bring you a girl to sit with you if you ask.

A rip-off in my opinion is when you are charged several thousand RMB for a couple of drinks. Was Middleway's KTV trying to get as much money out of him as possible. Yes. Were they trying to rip him off? Not in my opinion. When I read he left without paying anything I felt, like Bob, that he ripped them off.

I am always happy to hit a KTV with friends, as long as there is little to no singing involved!

Sammy

[Bob Builder]

Bb, I appreciate you taking the time to respond but your quote above is not appreciated. I speak other languages, ones that you probably don't. And if you were in my turf, you would make the same mistakes as I in yours.

We all have to start somewhere-often at point zero. Actually despite my knowing zero Chinese, being a complete newbie, and going out alone, overall I have done very well for myself in China during the short visits there.

I still regret the failed KTV that I posted about. But often learning comes to trial and error learning. BB, surely the tables would be reversed, if you came to my turf. But I would never tell you "learn the language and the KTV rules. " The newbie can only do so through direct experience.

You don't know me well enough to know how I operate or how many languages I speak or where I have mongered. So where is your turf, where you are king of the hill?

You could speak 100 languages but if they are not the one used at the place you are at, you might as well be speaking Latin.

As you do not speak Chinese, how are you 100% sure you were being ripped off? You may have been entitled to all the beers due to the minimum charge for the KTV room which you would have been charged whether you drank 1 beer or all of them. First you said a dozen beers, now it is cases? Maybe you were in 1 of these all you can drink places like they are arguing over in the Dongguan thread. I think that the thing that convinced me that you were not in a ripoff joint is that you were allowed to leave. If the intention was to rip you off, you would not have made it out the door.

Safe monger rules are universal.

[Middleway]

You don't know me well enough to know how I operate or how many languages I speak or where I have mongered.

Safe monger rules are universal.True, I know little about you. But you seem to be on a high horse about China. Believe me, on my turf your tail would be behind your legs.

Great that you apparently know the language and the "rules." Is a newbie supposed to wait 10 years while taking language lessons before he crosses the border?

This is supposed to be a brotherhood. Why cut down a newbie for trying to get his "wings"? One-upmanship. No need to do it here, Bob Builder, as we are all brothers.

Of course language and social rules are important. But totally irrelevant for the naive, language-less, first-time newbie. He can't and shouldn't wait years before mongering.

As a matter of fact, despite my disadvantage I accomplished all I set out for last week and then some--two of the WGs became freebees for me on later dates they innitiated. No language between us, except for translation software in my room that we used. But outside we were left to our own devices--something that we overcame!

I sincerely thank the people who responded to my case. Your tips are well taken.

[OldAsiaHand]

Middleway,

Based on your post of 6/30, I think you may have gone into the KTV with a preconceived notion you were going to be ripped off. When they came with the 12 beers, your negative perception was re-enforced. It is normal for KTVs to serve beer by the case in a KTV room.

IMHO, I think you had a misunderstanding with the management about the room charge given your lack of language skills. I have never heard of a 100RMB room charge in any KTV. When by yourself, it is better to just sit in the common area as has been suggested. The minimum is usually much lower and sometimes you can just order as few drinks as you like.

I think what BB is saying is that it is difficult for a newbie to negotiate the KTV scene in China without the language skills by himself. You are better off with sauna or BBS where things are much more straightforward. Just have them write down the price or punch it in on their mobile phone.

I must agree that you are lucky that they let you go. They probably were just frustrated that they could not communicate with you. The girl probably disappeared for the same reason. IMHO, you should have given her and the place at least something for the time and drinks you consummed.

Regarding the freebies, I am skeptical about this too. Why would a WG give it up for free. They probably wanted money too but you left them emptyhanded because of miscommunication too. Can you tell us more about this scenario? I would like to have WGs for free too.

Just my POV.

OAH











True, I know little about you. But you seem to be on a high horse about China. Believe me, on my turf your tail would be behind your legs.

Great that you apparently know the language and the "rules." Is a newbie supposed to wait 10 years while taking language lessons before he crosses the border?

This is supposed to be a brotherhood. Why cut down a newbie for trying to get his "wings"? One-upmanship. No need to do it here, Bob Builder, as we are all brothers.

Of course language and social rules are important. But totally irrelevant for the naive, language-less, first-time newbie. He can't and shouldn't wait years before mongering.

As a matter of fact, despite my disadvantage I accomplished all I set out for last week and then some--two of the WGs became freebees for me on later dates they innitiated. No language between us, except for translation software in my room that we used. But outside we were left to our own devices--something that we overcame!

I sincerely thank the people who responded to my case. Your tips are well taken.

[Bob Builder]

True, I know little about you. But you seem to be on a high horse about China. Believe me, on my turf your tail would be behind your legs.



Being here for a while, you situation did not sound like there was an "intention" to rip you off. Not any more than they would treat any other guest anyway with all the "standard" charges.

How can you be so sure where my tail would be? Like I said where is your turf, maybe I have been there? And what's so scary about where your turf is anyway? You just got scared out of a place that was trying to get you to pay a bar bill and there was not mention of any security or goons being present which would have been the first sign that you were going to get screwed over.

The again if you are used to trawling the roadside shacks in Mumbai or some alley in Medellin, I would feel safer keeping my tail where it is. I have been to quite a few dubious mongering spots but don't need that element of risk any more to get off.

Some times there is a fine line between being overly cautious and paranoid. I have been guilty of this with any new place I go, but may have been lucky enough to be able to ask and understand what is being charged for.

Play safe.

[Middleway]

Oah,

You are probably right about my preconceived notion. I was a naive, language-less newbie entering a seedy KTV in an alley way in HZ. The specific place "Cherry" is a half-block from the G-Plus nightclub. Given the recent "dryness" of HZ, maybe someone would like to try it.

Returning to my "paranoia, " anyone in China for two minutes immediately recognizes that they are dollar signs to many people from taxi drivers to street barkers. In this atmosphere, a person would have to be brain dead not to be suspicious when walking into an unknown bar, etc.

About the 100 charge-it was written down, clarified and confirmed by staff and my English-speaking girl. That she knew some English gave me some hope later that the conflict could have been resolved. I had no chance to confer with her. So the negative outcome.

Cherry was not my first KTV; I had already gone into at least several just for the "negotiation" or the feel of it. As well as to see what kind of girls and the monger potential. So despite having no common language between us, I was able to get some idea of a set change, something I knew from ISG. But Cherry's was very low for a fairly large room for one customer.

Now having had some successful KTV experiences, I understand better about the system being based on the group. I never knew that KTVs had a "common room, " so I couldn't avail myself of it.

The two freebie WGs were ones I paid for o/n. They asked me for my phone number. We exchanged. That obviously was the door for me to arranged dates which I did. Through translations on the internet, I laid the basic plan for meeting them-she would explain the meeting place to my taxi driver, who would take me to her. For both, I took them to dance clubs, which greatly reduces the need for conversation! I am a great dancer and women like dancing with me. Afterwards, I took them to my room for the night. Not bad for zero language skill in Chinese.


Middleway,

Based on your post of 6/30, I think you may have gone into the KTV with a preconceived notion you were going to be ripped off. When they came with the 12 beers, your negative perception was re-enforced. It is normal for KTVs to serve beer by the case in a KTV room.

IMHO, I think you had a misunderstanding with the management about the room charge given your lack of language skills. I have never heard of a 100RMB room charge in any KTV. When by yourself, it is better to just sit in the common area as has been suggested. The minimum is usually much lower and sometimes you can just order as few drinks as you like.

I think what BB is saying is that it is difficult for a newbie to negotiate the KTV scene in China without the language skills by himself. You are better off with sauna or BBS where things are much more straightforward. Just have them write down the price or punch it in on their mobile phone.

I must agree that you are lucky that they let you go. They probably were just frustrated that they could not communicate with you. The girl probably disappeared for the same reason. IMHO, you should have given her and the place at least something for the time and drinks you consummed.

Regarding the freebies, I am skeptical about this too. Why would a WG give it up for free. They probably wanted money too but you left them emptyhanded because of miscommunication too. Can you tell us more about this scenario? I would like to have WGs for free too.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Middleway]

Bob Builder,

I appreciate you in trying to make a constructive response. I don't doubt that you are a highly experienced and accomplished mongerer. My hat goes off to you. But as a matter of fact, I need not go any further into your background to imagine where your tail would be on my home turf. Generally, someone secure in themselves finds no interest in one-upmanship. And so I have to conclude what I said about your tail's position on my home turf. You might be big in China, but please don't let it go to your head. You might lose it!


Being here for a while, you situation did not sound like there was an "intention" to rip you off. Not any more than they would treat any other guest anyway with all the "standard" charges.

How can you be so sure where my tail would be? Like I said where is your turf, maybe I have been there? And what's so scary about where your turf is anyway? You just got scared out of a place that was trying to get you to pay a bar bill and there was not mention of any security or goons being present which would have been the first sign that you were going to get screwed over.

The again if you are used to trawling the roadside shacks in Mumbai or some alley in Medellin, I would feel safer keeping my tail where it is. I have been to quite a few dubious mongering spots but don't need that element of risk any more to get off.

Some times there is a fine line between being overly cautious and paranoid. I have been guilty of this with any new place I go, but may have been lucky enough to be able to ask and understand what is being charged for.

Play safe.

[OldAsiaHand]

The two freebie WGs were ones I paid for o/n. They asked me for my phone number. We exchanged. That obviously was the door for me to arranged dates which I did. Through translations on the internet, I laid the basic plan for meeting them-she would explain the meeting place to my taxi driver, who would take me to her. For both, I took them to dance clubs, which greatly reduces the need for conversation! I am a great dancer and women like dancing with me. Afterwards, I took them to my room for the night. Not bad for zero language skill in Chinese.

Middleway,

Are you saying that these 2 WGs let you do them for free because you are a great dancer? IMHO, they expected money and you did not give any to them. Could this be another case of miscommunication?

OAH

P.S. Where is your "home turf" by the way?

[Middleway]

You're reading too much into it. The encounters were over separate days. From ignorance or ill will do you suggest that I said "2 WGs let you do them for free because you are a great dancer?" I never said anything that could be construed as such. I mentioned dance as a way to overcome language gaps. These dates were dates, not P4P. Anyway, think whatever you want. Nothing can satisfy a mind of ill will.


Middleway,

Are you saying that these 2 WGs let you do them for free because you are a great dancer? IMHO, they expected money and you did not give any to them. Could this be another case of miscommunication?

OAH

P.S. Where is your "home turf" by the way?

[Sammon]

Oah,

You are probably right about my preconceived notion. I was a naive, language-less newbie entering a seedy KTV in an alley way in HZ. The specific place "Cherry" is a half-block from the G-Plus nightclub. Given the recent "dryness" of HZ, maybe someone would like to try it.

Returning to my "paranoia, " anyone in China for two minutes immediately recognizes that they are dollar signs to many people from taxi drivers to street barkers. In this atmosphere, a person would have to be brain dead not to be suspicious when walking into an unknown bar, etc.

About the 100 charge-it was written down, clarified and confirmed by staff and my English-speaking girl. That she knew some English gave me some hope later that the conflict could have been resolved. I had no chance to confer with her. So the negative outcome.

Cherry was not my first KTV; I had already gone into at least several just for the "negotiation" or the feel of it. As well as to see what kind of girls and the monger potential. So despite having no common language between us, I was able to get some idea of a set change, something I knew from ISG. But Cherry's was very low for a fairly large room for one customer.

Now having had some successful KTV experiences, I understand better about the system being based on the group. I never knew that KTVs had a "common room, " so I couldn't avail myself of it.

The two freebie WGs were ones I paid for o/n. They asked me for my phone number. We exchanged. That obviously was the door for me to arranged dates which I did. Through translations on the internet, I laid the basic plan for meeting them-she would explain the meeting place to my taxi driver, who would take me to her. For both, I took them to dance clubs, which greatly reduces the need for conversation! I am a great dancer and women like dancing with me. Afterwards, I took them to my room for the night. Not bad for zero language skill in Chinese.
I have srewed several freeibies when I lived in Shenzhen. Quite a few of them with extreme language problems. Some stayed with me for a few weekends. We talked only few words here and there. My Chinese was not at all good then. Apart from having sex, going out to dinner and clubs there was no other communication. Only time when they became chatterbox is when the maid came in for a few hours every day.
In universal language of love and sex there is no need for deep conversation.
They are quite happy to stay with you watch TV and use the computer to chat with their friends. By dating these girls I learned lot more Chinese language and the words and how to pronounce it right.

[Bob Builder]

Bob Builder,

I appreciate you in trying to make a constructive response. I don't doubt that you are a highly experienced and accomplished mongerer. My hat goes off to you. But as a matter of fact, I need not go any further into your background to imagine where your tail would be on my home turf. Generally, someone secure in themselves finds no interest in one-upmanship. And so I have to conclude what I said about your tail's position on my home turf. You might be big in China, but please don't let it go to your head. You might lose it!

You are the only one engaging in so called one-upmanship by going on about "your turf" wherever that is, but why are so insecure about actually mentioning where that is? If you are going to make these kind of statements how about backing it up?

I am only a guest in China and act accordingly as I would anywhere else.

If you act as you described in your post anywhere else in the world and get away with it, you are either one tough hombre or an accident waiting to happen.

I for one, would like to know where this place is in the world, that you can drink beer and sit with hostesses, then walk out without paying the bill.

[OldAsiaHand]

You're reading too much into it. The encounters were over separate days. From ignorance or ill will do you suggest that I said "2 WGs let you do them for free because you are a great dancer?" I never said anything that could be construed as such. I mentioned dance as a way to overcome language gaps. These dates were dates, not P4P. Anyway, think whatever you want. Nothing can satisfy a mind of ill will.

Middleway,

There is no ill will. I am just trying to understand. All of your posts are sketchy and ambiguous about details.

Where did you find these freebies the first time when you paid them as WGs?

OAH

[Middleway]

My hotel KTV.


Middleway,

There is no ill will. I am just trying to understand. All of your posts are sketchy and ambiguous about details.

Where did you find these freebies the first time when you paid them as WGs?

OAH

[Middleway]

If you act as you described in your post anywhere else in the world and get away with it, you are either one tough hombre or an accident waiting to happen.

I for one, would like to know where this place is in the world, that you can drink beer and sit with hostesses, then walk out without paying the bill.You have it completely wrong. I in no way acted wrongly; I may have made a mistake but was not like you interpret it. Once the English-speaking girl vanished, there was an impasse. I had no intention of not paying my due. I was not given any chance to find resolution, as I was asked to leave.

Where was the place? Read the ISG! Detailed location already given!

[Bob Builder]

You have it completely wrong. I in no way acted wrongly; I may have made a mistake but was not like you interpret it. Once the English-speaking girl vanished, there was an impasse. I had no intention of not paying my due. I was not given any chance to find resolution, as I was asked to leave.

Where was the place? Read the ISG! Detailed location already given!

I don't think you intentionally went in to rip them off, but you just hit the panic button and wanted to get out of there. But the impression that you have given by the all the other replies to your post is that "you walked out" without paying. If you were asked to leave without being threatened just reinforces the presumption that the KTV was not a rip off joint.

"The place" I am interested in is this "turf of your" that you mention. How will I be in trouble there if I don't do what you did, since I advocate safe mongering, not taking the action adventure route. So where is it, simple question? Maybe I have been there?

[Bob Builder]

Returning to my "paranoia, " anyone in China for two minutes immediately recognizes that they are dollar signs to many people from taxi drivers to street barkers. In this atmosphere, a person would have to be brain dead not to be suspicious when walking into an unknown bar, etc.



I have a paranoia about taixi drivers anywhere in the world, not just in China. The minute you get into one at any airport and they ask where you are from...

[Sammon]

It is next to impossible to walk out of KTV or any other place without paying.
Before you go into a KTV, pre-negotiate your requirements-say 10 beers with one girl or two girls to sit with you in the room for 3 hours. They will give a ballpark figure but you can bargain. It depends on the KTV. If they are busy already they will not go down on the price. Usual charge for one girl to sit with you is 200 RMB. Beware not all girls will allow you to grope her. The girls are experts in getting you as drunk as possible. Some of these girls can drink like fish. KTV are more fun for groups, not for singles.
Pre-negotiated price goes out of the window if you get drunk and they bring more food, drinks and more girls with or without your permission.
I have gone to many KTV and my chinese friends bargain even after the final bill is given. But for foreigners we have to be on guard. If your intention is only to select and take home a girl it is better to sit in the common area which has few tables and chairs and a dance floor. Here also do not order one drink at a time. Pre-negotiate for 5-10 beers or so. There are many hosta and hostesses in this area. They will sit with you and have a drink-no charge. You can let them know that you want to take a girl home and they will bring one or two at a time. Once you select you can negotiate for ST or LT. I have taken many girls from KTV and they have been totally GFE. There are many part timers who have a day job and students. KTV girls are pretty and young.

[Middleway]

Sammon,

That's some good tips there. Thanks.


It is next to impossible to walk out of KTV or any other place without paying.

Before you go into a KTV, pre-negotiate your requirements-say 10 beers with one girl or two girls to sit with you in the room for 3 hours. They will give a ballpark figure but you can bargain. It depends on the KTV. If they are busy already they will not go down on the price. Usual charge for one girl to sit with you is 200 RMB. Beware not all girls will allow you to grope her. The girls are experts in getting you as drunk as possible. Some of these girls can drink like fish. KTV are more fun for groups, not for singles.

Pre-negotiated price goes out of the window if you get drunk and they bring more food, drinks and more girls with or without your permission.

I have gone to many KTV and my Chinese friends bargain even after the final bill is given. But for foreigners we have to be on guard. If your intention is only to select and take home a girl it is better to sit in the common area which has few tables and chairs and a dance floor. Here also do not order one drink at a time. Pre-negotiate for 5-10 beers or so. There are many hosta and hostesses in this area. They will sit with you and have a drink-no charge. You can let them know that you want to take a girl home and they will bring one or two at a time. Once you select you can negotiate for ST or LT. I have taken many girls from KTV and they have been totally GFE. There are many part timers who have a day job and students. KTV girls are pretty and young.

[Middleway]

I don't think you intentionally went in to rip them off, but you just hit the panic button and wanted to get out of there. But the impression that you have given by the all the other replies to your post is that "you walked out" without paying. If you were asked to leave without being threatened just reinforces the presumption that the KTV was not a rip off joint.Your interpretation is completely wrong. You wrongly claim "I wanted to get out of there." On the contrary, I tried to stay for the girl, so I repeatedly asked for her. Besides having negotiated her o/n with me, she might have been able to bridge the misunderstanding between me and the club. I never motioned to leave until I was asked to leave.

Who knows if this was a rip off joint. It is unclear. Consensus seems to say that my being allowed to walk free indicates otherwise. That seems reasonable. But there are degrees of it.

[Middleway]

I have a paranoia about taixi drivers anywhere in the world, not just in China. The minute you get into one at any airport and they ask where you are from...Not sure of your point. Are you arguing that there is less reason for the visitor to feel suspicious in China than in other countries? Language certainly is an important factor for many. For that reason alone, China would be high on the list of anxiety-producing places for the visitor. For the reason of language also, the language-less visitor is not going to be asked where they are from. And even if so, that is not necessarily a bad thing. Some people might welcome it as friendliness and feel some ease.

[Bob Builder]

Not sure of your point. Are you arguing that there is less reason for the visitor to feel suspicious in China than in other countries? Language certainly is an important factor for many. For that reason alone, China would be high on the list of anxiety-producing places for the visitor. For the reason of language also, the language-less visitor is not going to be asked where they are from. And even if so, that is not necessarily a bad thing. Some people might welcome it as friendliness and feel some ease.

So where's "your turf" again?

[Middleway]

So where's "your turf" again?Not in China, bro, not in China.

[Middleway]

Middleway,

Why are you being so evasive about where your turf is?

You posted that you only checked out other KTVs to see what was up but did not stay, now you say the 2 WG/freebies came from KTV.

Something is starting to smell here.

Just my POV.

OAHOAH's "Just. POV" must mean "Poor Oral & Verbal." I agree because you must be practically illiterate for you to be needling me based on your false assumptions, misreadings, and low aptitude.

First I never said, "I only checked out other KTVs to see what was up. " Prior to the Cherry KTV incident, I did do some recon at some KTVs to understand the concept of KTV and sense monger potential. But that does not preclude going to other KTVs after Cherry! OAH, are you brain dead or what?

Second, indeed I went to my hotel KTV after that, a hotel known in these pages as GF friendly. I do not mention the name because I have an issue with it and do not want to bring them free pub until my issue is resolved. The info simply would not add to ISG knowledge anyway.

OAH, what is with you? Are you jealous because I was able to get some freebies and you are not? Are you jealous because I am a visitor using the "local women, " something you think is only the prerogative of residents there?

This local vs. Outsider competition for women is a real issue in many parts of the world since time began. Sorry to step on your toes, OAH, but I have as much right as you to be dipping into the honey pots over there. And I love every dripping minute of it! Finger licking good! Finger, finger licking good! As the good Colonel would say. Take that OAH LOL.

And precisely why I cannot divulge my "home turf" because hordes of people might be invading and ravishing our women. In your mindset, OAH, you are likely to try to start campaigns to do so. Not sure who would bother to follow you, but who knows you could be a Grand Dragon Wizard with some heap potent magic. And anyway, as I originally posted, your and Bob Builder's one-upmanship seems to reveal a personal insecurity; thus you wouldn't be able to monger successfully here. So naming the place is needless.

OAH, thanks to your POV, you have generated false ideas about my accounts, needled me needlessly, and gotten my ire. All of it is for naught because you just want to satisfy some of your own personal shortcomings. What, you want to try to follow my tracks and get some freebees? Hardly will these women find you attractive enough, judging by the man you revealed yourself to be.

[Bob Builder]

Continuing this discussion is futile. It has gotten way out of hand. Let's take a time out.

Please read my original accounts as intended--some simple sharing--asking for some clarification in one case; in the other, pointing out mongering can be done without any spoken Chinese skill. There is no need to be disrespectful of one another. We are here to help one another. At least that is what I believe.

Sure!

Just as an example to show that not only foreigners get ripped off in China, I was in Beijing on business when a business associate told me that several of his friends went to a KTV for an hour or so and were presented with a bill of over RMB10,000. They were in given the option of not paying and leaving if you know what I mean. They paid and told my friend, who later paid them a visit and politely asked for a refund or there would be consequences. They didn't believe him. He got a friend of his who is local LE to close the place down.

[Middleway]

Sure!

Just as an example to show that not only foreigners get ripped off in China, I was in Beijing on business when a business associate told me that several of his friends went to a KTV for an hour or so and were presented with a bill of over RMB10,000. They were in given the option of not paying and leaving if you know what I mean. They paid and told my friend, who later paid them a visit and politely asked for a refund or there would be consequences. They didn't believe him. He got a friend of his who is local LE to close the place down.I get dizzy computing exchange rates but that was like $1500US. An amazing ripoff. They were all Chinese, I take it. Even if this is an isolated case (right?), we have to wonder. Is there a sure-fire way of protecting ourselves? For example, before anything, put into writing the understood cost and services.

[Bob Builder]

Sure!

Just as an example to show that not only foreigners get ripped off in China, I was in Beijing on business when a business associate told me that several of his friends went to a KTV for an hour or so and were presented with a bill of over RMB10,000. They were in given the option of not paying and leaving if you know what I mean. They paid and told my friend, who later paid them a visit and politely asked for a refund or there would be consequences. They didn't believe him. He got a friend of his who is local LE to close the place down.

This shit happens everywhere. I know guys who this has happened to in gogo bars in Wanchai, Hong Kong and private clubs in London, England. That's probably why I am not the adventurous type.

[Middleway]

This shit happens everywhere. I know guys who this has happened to in gogo bars in Wanchai, Hong Kong and private clubs in London, England. That's probably why I am not the adventurous type.But you still venture out. You take any extra precaution, or just ready to take your luck with the draw?

[OldAsiaHand]

Ira,

You are right. Sometimes, I get lured into battle with these trolls and waste my time and the bandwidth. Time is better spent sticking it in some 18yo tight thing somewhere just down the road from me for less than the price of lunch in that midwest light industry park.

That said, the BS these trolls post just rubs me the wrong way so to speak.

Just my POV.

OAH


OAH:

Might wanna drop it, old man. Mr 46 Middleway is starting to appear to be what is known in the electronic parlance as a 'troll.'

Don't rise to the bait, you keep on keeping on here in the middle kingdom, while our newfound friend sits in his ergonomic chair somewhere in a cubicle farm in a light industry park office building in the American midwest, building his castles of pink airy fantasy and laughing as he can make the tenured adventurers dance with indignation within their own electronic house.

Sure, I have opened myself up to similar bashing, but I do not care. I don't sit at home watching JEOPARDY and grumbling "That money is rightfully mine" at the TV when the vapid housewife gives Trebek the wrong answer.

Or maybe I am a troll's troll.

Let it be. Don't give one snarky n00b his own forum.

Ira

[Middleway]

Ira,

You are right. Sometimes, I get lured into battle with these trolls and waste my time and the bandwidth. Time is better spent sticking it in some 18yo tight thing somewhere just down the road from me for less than the price of lunch in that midwest light industry park.

That said, the BS these trolls post just rubs me the wrong way so to speak.

Just my POV.

OAHI ditto that. That's great advice. OAH, stay out of it so you won't get hurt.

[Middleway]

Wading through some archived ISG discussion, I found the dilemma about beauty or attitude for choosing among WGs interesting. Besides questions of sexuality, we really deal a lot about human nature here! Anyway, a number of our brothers have commented in ISG that they go for attitude rather than beauty. How about you?

On a recent trip, I must agree that among the WGs I had, the two most willing to please also happened to be the least attractive. Oh, don't get me wrong--these were at least a 6-- and the one in the red polka dot top with bulging tits was a great turn on. But the others were at least 7 and the hottest, a 9.5 (really cute, well built, and a rack that telescoped a foot).

This 9.5 bombshell, perhaps because she was inexperienced (only did it twice before) and young (18), was difficult. After a number of negotiations failed in my room, I called the mommie to replace her. e.g., She was the only one who did not want to shower together; eventually she did though. But in bed she was a cold fish. In contrast, the only two WGs who freely allowed me to photograph them in whatever pose also were the two least attractive ones.

Maybe this bombshell and I were incompatible, but the mommie later reported that she quit for a "regular" job. She was not cut out to be a WG. Developmental theory would say that a pretty girl has doors opened for her all the time. She need not exert herself. Besides, she also gets a lot of male attention. So the WG life being strenuous and male attention not new, she decided to quit.

But how about other 9s who have undesireable attitudes but stay in the business? People might use developmental theory for explaining her lax attitude, as some ISG brothers do. I would like to float a new explanation. She is overworked: she gets so much male attention already and being picked so often, she feels less motivated. The energy is absent unlike for plain Janes who revel in the male attention and are not worked as often.

So we have at least two explanations--the developmental one and the practical one--for explaining why some bombshells are duds. But the larger question is what proportion of bombshells are duds? Our theories tell us that a sizeable proportion is likely. Fifty percent? Higher? What do you think?

[AsnDragon]

Middleway,

Different strokes for different folks. However, I must say that the level of service you get also depends on how much money you are willing to fork out as well. If you are very well off and willing to shell out some serious cash, I'm sure you can get beauty and service, instead of settling for one or the other.

I would lean more towards beauty if it's a short time deal, you just want to sleep with a great looking girl and kick her out like 1 hour after your session. but if you are looking for a longer period- overnight deal or weekend deal, then service would usually rule. Who wants to stay with a bombshell if she gives you an attitude and you don't feel happy with her? right?

So depending on circumstances you can choose accordingly. The great part about china is, you can always switch it up...go for beauty some days and switch over to service other days. Why choose when you can have both? Plenty of girls to go around.

But it would work better for you if you earn more money. that's the rule of thumb in any mongering in any country.

AsnDragon




Wading through some archived ISG discussion, I found the dilemma about beauty or attitude for choosing among WGs interesting. Besides questions of sexuality, we really deal a lot about human nature here! Anyway, a number of our brothers have commented in ISG that they go for attitude rather than beauty. How about you?

On a recent trip, I must agree that among the WGs I had, the two most willing to please also happened to be the least attractive. Oh, don't get me wrong--these were at least a 6-- and the one in the red polka dot top with bulging tits was a great turn on. But the others were at least 7 and the hottest, a 9.5 (really cute, well built, and a rack that telescoped a foot).

This 9.5 bombshell, perhaps because she was inexperienced (only did it twice before) and young (18), was difficult. After a number of negotiations failed in my room, I called the mommie to replace her. e.g., She was the only one who did not want to shower together; eventually she did though. But in bed she was a cold fish. In contrast, the only two WGs who freely allowed me to photograph them in whatever pose also were the two least attractive ones.

Maybe this bombshell and I were incompatible, but the mommie later reported that she quit for a "regular" job. She was not cut out to be a WG. Developmental theory would say that a pretty girl has doors opened for her all the time. She need not exert herself. Besides, she also gets a lot of male attention. So the WG life being strenuous and male attention not new, she decided to quit.

But how about other 9s who have undesireable attitudes but stay in the business? People might use developmental theory for explaining her lax attitude, as some ISG brothers do. I would like to float a new explanation. She is overworked: she gets so much male attention already and being picked so often, she feels less motivated. The energy is absent unlike for plain Janes who revel in the male attention and are not worked as often.

So we have at least two explanations--the developmental one and the practical one--for explaining why some bombshells are duds. But the larger question is what proportion of bombshells are duds? Our theories tell us that a sizeable proportion is likely. Fifty percent? Higher? What do you think?

[Meiguoguizi]

I wonder what the corresponding working girl conversation is....
"Sometimes I like to be picked by a young cute guy... but he always wants to f*** too long and expects me to go out with him around town for NO MONEY! So sometimes I like the fat old rich men who come fast and always buy me stuff."

[AsnDragon]

Meiguoguizi,

That is just too true of a conversation. In the end money still wins over everything else. But if you happen to be young and cute and you have money also, then you've really got it made in China. Just try not to be too stingy...


asndragon


I wonder what the corresponding working girl conversation is....
"Sometimes I like to be picked by a young cute guy... but he always wants to f*** too long and expects me to go out with him around town for NO MONEY! So sometimes I like the fat old rich men who come fast and always buy me stuff."

[Middleway]

I wonder what the corresponding working girl conversation is....
"Sometimes I like to be picked by a young cute guy... but he always wants to f*** too long and expects me to go out with him around town for NO MONEY! So sometimes I like the fat old rich men who come fast and always buy me stuff."Yeah, but young men usually cannot f*** as long as older men. lol But it is really true about the "no money" thing. lol

[Middleway]

Middleway,

Different strokes for different folks. However, I must say that the level of service you get also depends on how much money you are willing to fork out as well. If you are very well off and willing to shell out some serious cash, I'm sure you can get beauty and service, instead of settling for one or the other.

I would lean more towards beauty if it's a short time deal, you just want to sleep with a great looking girl and kick her out like 1 hour after your session. but if you are looking for a longer period- overnight deal or weekend deal, then service would usually rule. Who wants to stay with a bombshell if she gives you an attitude and you don't feel happy with her? right?

So depending on circumstances you can choose accordingly. The great part about china is, you can always switch it up...go for beauty some days and switch over to service other days. Why choose when you can have both? Plenty of girls to go around.

But it would work better for you if you earn more money. that's the rule of thumb in any mongering in any country.

AsnDragonWell said, well said, AsnDragon. I appreciated the wisdom. Also enjoyed the humor about the "switching up" and "switching over." China is my kind of place. lol

[Blacklisted]

Hey guys,

Previous poster, turned long term lurker back for some words of wisdom from the brotherhood of ISG.

Been in China many years now and not sure my question is super China related, although probably is Asia related as I've been doing some research and I get the sense 'daddy issues' in China or Asia are probably very different and require a different thinking than 'daddy issues' in say, the US.

I've recently had the very good fortune of hooking up with a 20 YO girl in Shanghai who is actually a very young 20. I almost bailed out on the first date because she just looked a bit young and I felt kind of uncomfortable.

All that's passed now and we've started into a really nice little relationship although I do get some odd looks now and then....

The thing that has struck me as a bit weird is that she likes to call me papa, daddy, etc. etc. which is something I've not come across before and find rather fascinating and slightly humourous, so I wanted to ask opinions of you guys on what is going on with that and if it's common etc. in your opinions.

Usually I'd think young girls are motivated by older men in China for things such as short or long term financial gain etc. and I've taken advantage of several sweet young things for that reason and it's always been pretty obvious.

This one does however, seems genuine, which is why I'm asking it from a slightly psychological standpoint and hence posting in this thread. Genuine in the sense that she seems to have a real 'daddy issue' thing going on and that appears to be the motivation at least for now.

Another point to note is she is a definite virgin and has had one other BF (closer to her age and also a virgin apparently).

I'm feeling like a lucky bastard at the moment and enjoying it for all it's worth, as rather fully expecting it all to end at any moment.

Anyone had this kind of thing happen before?

[Sammon]

Hey guys,

Previous poster, turned long term lurker back for some words of wisdom from the brotherhood of ISG.

Been in China many years now and not sure my question is super China related, although probably is Asia related as I've been doing some research and I get the sense 'daddy issues' in China or Asia are probably very different and require a different thinking than 'daddy issues' in say, the US.

I've recently had the very good fortune of hooking up with a 20 YO girl in Shanghai who is actually a very young 20. I almost bailed out on the first date because she just looked a bit young and I felt kind of uncomfortable.

All that's passed now and we've started into a really nice little relationship although I do get some odd looks now and then....

The thing that has struck me as a bit weird is that she likes to call me papa, daddy, etc. etc. which is something I've not come across before and find rather fascinating and slightly humourous, so I wanted to ask opinions of you guys on what is going on with that and if it's common etc. in your opinions.

Usually I'd think young girls are motivated by older men in China for things such as short or long term financial gain etc. and I've taken advantage of several sweet young things for that reason and it's always been pretty obvious.

This one does however, seems genuine, which is why I'm asking it from a slightly psychological standpoint and hence posting in this thread. Genuine in the sense that she seems to have a real 'daddy issue' thing going on and that appears to be the motivation at least for now.

Another point to note is she is a definite virgin and has had one other BF (closer to her age and also a virgin apparently).

I'm feeling like a lucky bastard at the moment and enjoying it for all it's worth, as rather fully expecting it all to end at any moment.

Anyone had this kind of thing happen before?
I had a young 19 year old GF when I was living in Shenzhen. She was from Hubei. Very pretty bubbly girl. I am older but look middle thirties. We went everywhere together including Beijing, shanghai, Three gorges dam cruise etc. Nobody batted an eye. In fact people were very friendly and helpfull.
In fact one of the tours we took in Beijing had one older Chinese gentleman with a young girl in our group. It was funny the guide made continuous reference to them as being odd looking together. Maybe she was jealous.
In China they are used to age differences between man and woman. In Shenzhen you can see many older men from HKG with young mistresses.
Only my friends girlfriend was surprised to know that this girl was only 19 when we all went out together.
Generally young chinese girls do not like to be with older foreign men.
My relationship was ended on my part because of my mongering ways. Cannot just settle with one girl.

[Ira Johnson]

hey bl, good to see you posting here again.

i am pleased to know i am not the only one who is simultaneously reveling in this phenomenon yet puzzled by it.

i exclusively date chinese – filipinas and koreans have proven they have their own issues that i prefer not to go into. i really wanted to date older girls (for various reasons) but they seem actually more complicated, high maintenance, and dramatic than their younger counterparts. and i am continually baffled by the fact that increasingly younger girls want me.

i am in my 40s, fat, gray hair, and bear a passing resemblance to shrek. i treat women respectfully and honestly (although in the past i have juggled girls like a player).

however, a partial list of my girls during my time in shanghai includes:

~ a 22 year old zhejiang doll who would travel from outer pudong to my home in lower puxi just to fuck me in half

~ a 19 year old shanghainese university student with explicit and stereotypical daddy issues who asked me to help her push the limits of sexual exploration

~ a 21 year old virgin (no longer though) from jiangxi who still stalks me and would agree to any type of relationship from boyfriend to friends with benefits just to have time with me

these each came with their drawbacks – ending things with each of them was a nightmare. the 22 year old posted about me online, the 19 year old threatened to maim herself and me and swears to get the word revenge tattooed across her breasts (fan pi- bullpoop), and the 21 year old parked herself outside my door for a night and a day.

i would not trade any of my experiences though – they are wonderful girls. my experiences with them are such that most men would trade 5 years of their lives to be with one of them for only a short time.

my current gf is a 23 year old shanghainese. she adores me and the sex is the best i ever had. she is spoiled and temperamental, and the only way she listens to me is if i speak to her in a fatherly tone. i’ve met her mom and dad and grandpa and grandma, and the family accepts our relationship (although they did not at first) and i am welcomed by them. she is not as much a bitchy princess as many shanghai girls, and in fact has a great relationship with her family. i am envious – they seem so happy and loving, unlike my own family back home. i am happy.

however, what i want to share with you in relation to your post is this: i am a western mirror of her father. he and i enjoy the same types of beer, same chinese cuisines, similar movies, we both cook very well, he’s kind of round like me, our temperament is the same, we both dote on her in equal ways, and the way he treats her mother is similar to how i treat my gf. in mid autumn festival there was a lot of jokes because i only like one style of moon cake – the same style her father exclusively eats…

there seems to be no negative psychological relationship between her and her father, that is why “daddy issues’ seems inappropriate here, at least in a negative context. she does not call me daddy, and our relationship is that of peers. however i would be a fool to ignore that her choice to be with me has something to do with her father – and i am ok with that.

i do worry that this may end, and end badly - but not that much any longer. i finally learned to enjoy the present.

none of these girls wanted my money (not that i have a lot), they did not want to go to the west, or anything like that. my current gf was concerned that she would be seen as a gold digger when locals saw this tiny young thing on my old white arm, but she got over that. i got some stares with the previous gfs and a few with this one, but hell, i get stared at anyway - i am laowai.

bl, you are lucky, and you should pat yourself on the back. it may end soon, it may not, but either way you should enjoy every moment. don’t you think you deserve this good fortune? ni bu yao xiang tai duo le.

thanks for sharing – it is good to know there are others like me.

finally, although i am really happy with my gf, if you and wgs want to go a-ktving again, you know how to reach me.

ira



hey guys,

previous poster, turned long term lurker back for some words of wisdom from the brotherhood of isg.

been in china many years now and not sure my question is super china related, although probably is asia related as i've been doing some research and i get the sense 'daddy issues' in china or asia are probably very different and require a different thinking than 'daddy issues' in say, the us.

i've recently had the very good fortune of hooking up with a 20 yo girl in shanghai who is actually a very young 20. i almost bailed out on the first date because she just looked a bit young and i felt kind of uncomfortable.

all that's passed now and we've started into a really nice little relationship although i do get some odd looks now and then....

the thing that has struck me as a bit weird is that she likes to call me papa, daddy, etc. etc. which is something i've not come across before and find rather fascinating and slightly humourous, so i wanted to ask opinions of you guys on what is going on with that and if it's common etc. in your opinions.

usually i'd think young girls are motivated by older men in china for things such as short or long term financial gain etc. and i've taken advantage of several sweet young things for that reason and it's always been pretty obvious.

this one does however, seems genuine, which is why i'm asking it from a slightly psychological standpoint and hence posting in this thread. genuine in the sense that she seems to have a real 'daddy issue' thing going on and that appears to be the motivation at least for now.

another point to note is she is a definite virgin and has had one other bf (closer to her age and also a virgin apparently).

i'm feeling like a lucky bastard at the moment and enjoying it for all it's worth, as rather fully expecting it all to end at any moment.

anyone had this kind of thing happen before?

[AsnDragon]

ira,

you seem to be living the life! how are your girlfriends in terms of looks? i don't seem to have as much as luck as you do. care to tell me your secret?

everyone has their own preferences or techniques. one bro only goes after lonely trophy wives- who even gives him presents after the session.

i just never realized that getting free action was that easy in china. i always thought that free came with baggage in the end, so i shy away from "free" most of the time as i don't want un-necessary troubles after the breakup. in my opinion most asian girls, chinese korea etc...really throw a huge fit after the breakup and border into the stalker, vengeful-vindictive mode which kind of scares me as they can get rather intense with their emotions.

so do the girls usually approach you or do you approach them first?

asndragon


hey bl, good to see you posting here again.

i am pleased to know i am not the only one who is simultaneously reveling in this phenomenon yet puzzled by it.

i exclusively date chinese – filipinas and koreans have proven they have their own issues that i prefer not to go into. i really wanted to date older girls (for various reasons) but they seem actually more complicated, high maintenance, and dramatic than their younger counterparts. and i am continually baffled by the fact that increasingly younger girls want me.

i am in my 40s, fat, gray hair, and bear a passing resemblance to shrek. i treat women respectfully and honestly (although in the past i have juggled girls like a player).

however, a partial list of my girls during my time in shanghai includes:

~ a 22 year old zhejiang doll who would travel from outer pudong to my home in lower puxi just to fuck me in half

~ a 19 year old shanghainese university student with explicit and stereotypical daddy issues who asked me to help her push the limits of sexual exploration

~ a 21 year old virgin (no longer though) from jiangxi who still stalks me and would agree to any type of relationship from boyfriend to friends with benefits just to have time with me

these each came with their drawbacks – ending things with each of them was a nightmare. the 22 year old posted about me online, the 19 year old threatened to maim herself and me and swears to get the word revenge tattooed across her breasts (fan pi- bullpoop), and the 21 year old parked herself outside my door for a night and a day.

i would not trade any of my experiences though – they are wonderful girls. my experiences with them are such that most men would trade 5 years of their lives to be with one of them for only a short time.

my current gf is a 23 year old shanghainese. she adores me and the sex is the best i ever had. she is spoiled and temperamental, and the only way she listens to me is if i speak to her in a fatherly tone. i’ve met her mom and dad and grandpa and grandma, and the family accepts our relationship (although they did not at first) and i am welcomed by them. she is not as much a bitchy princess as many shanghai girls, and in fact has a great relationship with her family. i am envious – they seem so happy and loving, unlike my own family back home. i am happy.

however, what i want to share with you in relation to your post is this: i am a western mirror of her father. he and i enjoy the same types of beer, same chinese cuisines, similar movies, we both cook very well, he’s kind of round like me, our temperament is the same, we both dote on her in equal ways, and the way he treats her mother is similar to how i treat my gf. in mid autumn festival there was a lot of jokes because i only like one style of moon cake – the same style her father exclusively eats…

there seems to be no negative psychological relationship between her and her father, that is why “daddy issues’ seems inappropriate here, at least in a negative context. she does not call me daddy, and our relationship is that of peers. however i would be a fool to ignore that her choice to be with me has something to do with her father – and i am ok with that.

i do worry that this may end, and end badly - but not that much any longer. i finally learned to enjoy the present.

none of these girls wanted my money (not that i have a lot), they did not want to go to the west, or anything like that. my current gf was concerned that she would be seen as a gold digger when locals saw this tiny young thing on my old white arm, but she got over that. i got some stares with the previous gfs and a few with this one, but hell, i get stared at anyway - i am laowai.

bl, you are lucky, and you should pat yourself on the back. it may end soon, it may not, but either way you should enjoy every moment. don’t you think you deserve this good fortune? ni bu yao xiang tai duo le.

thanks for sharing – it is good to know there are others like me.

finally, although i am really happy with my gf, if you and wgs want to go a-ktving again, you know how to reach me.

ira

[Ira Johnson]

Woo.. do not look to me as a guru, dude. I screw up royally.

I've had a lot of freebies here, especially before I settled down with this girl and the girl before her, but having a lot requires a lot of maintenance - messages, chats, etc.

Anyway, if I have a system it is this:

1. answer ads on classifieds sites like craigslist or enjoyshanghai. On those, focus on language exchange or just friends.

2. participate in online dating sites (the free ones) like chinalovematch or datienasia. Be looking for friends only. In both situations, these girls feel safer starting as friends.

3. use MSN and QQ (just having QQ impresses many, and I speak and write no chinese) to build online friendships. You can maintain several online friendships, regardless of how long the chats are. Chat for several days to a couple weeks before EVER discussing meeting. Text messages are appreciated too - much more than phone calls.

4. when it seems right, discuss meeting in very public place for very chaste date - coffee, she helps you shop for something, language exchange. Keep it cheap and unimpressive, now is not the time to impress. Comfort is key. No touching, but compliment her. If she refuses to meet, back off and keep chatting. If a few days later she refuses to meet, it's not worth pursuing.

5. chat a while longer. Then mention a dinner date, a place YOU want to try. If she refuses, back off, if not, this is your chance.

6. Be respectful, choose a nice place (but not too nice), only touching should be small of the back or brushing her arm. Be silly and goofy and funny - then drop bombs about how smart or talented or funny she is and how much you like that. Save the 'beautiful' compliments for later. At the end of the date, ask for a hug ("It's what friends do in my culture").

7. Chat lightly for a few days. You are very busy. But stay in touch.

8. Friday night, you are tired but don't want to be alone. "I am going to watch this great DVD - I'd love it if you can join me, we can order food in." I have a few go-to DVDs - "Failure to Launch" for example - all Chinese girls know Sarah Jessica Parker from Sex and the City, and I am a southerner and talk like Matthew MacConaughey. Romantic comedies are best. "Good Luck Chuck" has worked wonders too - it is funny but has a surprising amount of sex yet is not pornographic or overtly passionate.

9. Make a move. Put your arm around her during the movie, stroke her hair while your eyes are on the screen. Pause the movie well into the film to discuss a point, then express amazement that you two think so similarly. This is when I try for the kiss. If the kiss goes well, I can do pretty much what I like. If not, I usually cut my losses.

10. From there on out she will be happy with 9 at-home dates to one going out date.

In all things be honest and respectful. Be light and silly until physical contact is made.

This is a lot of work - like farming. I would be juggling 7 to 10 girls like this, all the while meeting new ones online and adding them to the mix. But once the harvest appears, it will be a bumper crop. Not all of these blossom, and of those it will be apparent some are just not worth it. However, after I'd been doing this three months in Shanghai, I had six or seven regulars that I was able to maintain by simple 'good morning' text messages.

It is addictive though - you start to wonder what else you can get, how much better the next could be, and it takes control to back away from the websites and just maintain your garden.

Finally, yes, they almost all end badly - tears, recrimination, drama - but it is a price worth paying if you want that lifestyle. However, end it classy - say that you understand and you care enough to let them go. Also, it's too hard for you so it's best to stop all contact for a while. You wills till get the occasional nutjob, but hey, that is the spice of it. And crazy girl sex is AWESOME.

In one instance I was able to get them to chase me - an erotic story written from the point of view of a chick - not porn but classy erotica - describing my ideal 'one night stand.' I must have gotten five great lays out of that... but you have to be a talented writer.

As for looks, these are hot girls, but not club girls. Also I tend to stay away from Shanghainese if I can help it - younger girls new to Shanghai are eager to make friends and are being treated pretty bad by the local Shanghainese anyhow. ALWAYS ask where they are from, show interest in their home province, ask about family and childhood.

Most weekends for me were three-fers - one girl stayed over Friday night, one on Saturday night, one on Sunday afternoon that did not stay over. I saved the weekends for the girls from further away - if she lived nearer me, after the first weekend stay-over it was easy to get her to come stay on a weeknight. Oh - if you can make a simple omelette and a cup of tea you are so golden the next day...

Ok, get going. Report back to me in a few months and let me know how it is going. Maybe like me you will get so tired of it you will choose the best one and settle down....

...for a while. That's right, there is not telling if I will pull a MacArthur and return.

Ira



Ira,

You seem to be living the life! How are your girlfriends in terms of looks? I don't seem to have as much as luck as you do. care to tell me your secret?

So do the girls usually approach you or do you approach them first?

AsnDragon

[Dash]

Hey guys,

Previous poster, turned long term lurker back for some words of wisdom from the brotherhood of ISG.

Been in China many years now and not sure my question is super China related, although probably is Asia related as I've been doing some research and I get the sense 'daddy issues' in China or Asia are probably very different and require a different thinking than 'daddy issues' in say, the US.

I've recently had the very good fortune of hooking up with a 20 YO girl in Shanghai who is actually a very young 20. I almost bailed out on the first date because she just looked a bit young and I felt kind of uncomfortable.

All that's passed now and we've started into a really nice little relationship although I do get some odd looks now and then....

The thing that has struck me as a bit weird is that she likes to call me papa, daddy, etc. etc. which is something I've not come across before and find rather fascinating and slightly humourous, so I wanted to ask opinions of you guys on what is going on with that and if it's common etc. in your opinions.

Usually I'd think young girls are motivated by older men in China for things such as short or long term financial gain etc. and I've taken advantage of several sweet young things for that reason and it's always been pretty obvious.

This one does however, seems genuine, which is why I'm asking it from a slightly psychological standpoint and hence posting in this thread. Genuine in the sense that she seems to have a real 'daddy issue' thing going on and that appears to be the motivation at least for now.

Another point to note is she is a definite virgin and has had one other BF (closer to her age and also a virgin apparently).

I'm feeling like a lucky bastard at the moment and enjoying it for all it's worth, as rather fully expecting it all to end at any moment.

Anyone had this kind of thing happen before?
I did not experience this in China, but rather Mexico. However, there are recurring themes of younger women and older Western men.
This can happen when the woman is outside of her home element, i.e. from somewhere else but living in your location. Something about the perceived security of an older guy. I have also met younger women who were actually afraid of aggressive local men.
Western men have the deserved reputation of being less likely to hit, abuse, and otherwise mistreat women. They also have the reputation of eating pussy and not getting too drunk.
The other thing is wherever there exist hookers, the local women are extremely polite to men. They must sense there is competition for the only valuable commodity that they can barter with, their pussy.
I do not believe young women are all "gold diggers" per se, but rather security and respect seekers. Older women are fun seekers after they have established they have sufficient security.
I have been with 3 hot young Mexican girls and one American who all had some kind of daddy or authority/respect thing going on with me. These all had some kind of difficulty with fathers in their lifetime. They rewarded me well for my "kind understanding" of them.

[Tors Ham]

Personally no, but

In the area where I use to stay there were at least 3, 50-60+ years old Chinese men with GF in mid 20. 2 of them with children.

Can be a side GF or well I don't know.

But sure they can point that out to me that her mother is 20 years younger than the father of her baby, but it's nothing more than that. (And that girl was a 9 anywhere)

And a lot of the Chinese biz men of my knowledge have young wives or GF. (20-30 years younger)

Teachers can have an effect on women, money, criminals and so on so on.

And as a foreigner in China, well sometimes I feel like a cage monkey that everyone wants to play with, well it has its advantages hehehe.

And a young handsome foreigner will get his lifetime share here in a month if he learns to play his cards, older ones like me need a little more time

Maybe it's the way they are raised who knows.

Why dig deep in why, just enjoy the fact that it's more common in China that this type of things happen and the fact that it is more acceptable among others.

You only live once, have fun while it last.

Cheers


Hey guys,

Previous poster, turned long term lurker back for some words of wisdom from the brotherhood of ISG.

Been in China many years now and not sure my question is super China related, although probably is Asia related as I've been doing some research and I get the sense 'daddy issues' in China or Asia are probably very different and require a different thinking than 'daddy issues' in say, the US.

I've recently had the very good fortune of hooking up with a 20 YO girl in Shanghai who is actually a very young 20. I almost bailed out on the first date because she just looked a bit young and I felt kind of uncomfortable.

All that's passed now and we've started into a really nice little relationship although I do get some odd looks now and then....

The thing that has struck me as a bit weird is that she likes to call me papa, daddy, etc. etc. which is something I've not come across before and find rather fascinating and slightly humourous, so I wanted to ask opinions of you guys on what is going on with that and if it's common etc. in your opinions.

Usually I'd think young girls are motivated by older men in China for things such as short or long term financial gain etc. and I've taken advantage of several sweet young things for that reason and it's always been pretty obvious.

This one does however, seems genuine, which is why I'm asking it from a slightly psychological standpoint and hence posting in this thread. Genuine in the sense that she seems to have a real 'daddy issue' thing going on and that appears to be the motivation at least for now.

Another point to note is she is a definite virgin and has had one other BF (closer to her age and also a virgin apparently).

I'm feeling like a lucky bastard at the moment and enjoying it for all it's worth, as rather fully expecting it all to end at any moment.

Anyone had this kind of thing happen before?

[FernandoAlonso]

Guys,

I love your reports! One of the reasons for dating older men is that younger girls nowadays look for security. That is financial security and also the (however rationalised) believe older men are more stable, thus not run away so easily. Well, good luck on that.

Also I experience stories how difficult the selection procedure is for current young Chinese. Immmense pressure from more traditional elders, single childs worshipped and the almost pre-condition for having a house and a car and a good job. Couple that with the inexperience of many young people here and the (no offence intended) naivity and laziness of many younger males no wonder there is a certain advantage for older men (not necessarily laowei but in general).

So the Daddy issue may be one aspect but finding a husband is indeed a difficult task for this generation that is finding its own identity in a in a positive sense crazy society.

I love being a man here!

FA

[Pushkin13]

Yes ...

A few months ago, I cracked her cherry.

She: mid-20s, and physically frustrated with inadequate, ill-mannered boys. A father issue (neglectful, and gambling, and not loving his 3 children, including her) was also part of the background.

Primarily, I helped her with her English language preparation for an important international test. But the background (above) was a second order issue.

My wallet was a handsome third order issue.

Yes, I was (of course, and by my nature) respectful, considered, prudent with money, but with bounded generosity.

She: felt safe to open her mind, and later her body to me, knowing that this, for her, was the safest, warmest environment she had ever been in, and was likely to be in for some time.

The first time, ... all pain for her. I stopped ... because pain is not my scene. But after catching her breath ... she asked me to continue. Which I did.

Second time, pain, but some pleasure.

Third time, and thereafter ... all pleasure.

Of course, it ended in tears. She said that I did not understand the Chinese attitude to money (and the sharing of money). She was aware of the money "bound" (see above).

I said that I had completely honoured my financial commitment and promise to her, and more, and for her to tell me if, and when, I had not honoured.

She left ... and apologised via a text message a few days later.

Strong, pleasurable company and unlimited sex for 2 months.

Just my experience.

P13.

[Ira Johnson]

Why dig deep in why, just enjoy the fact that it's more common in China that this type of things happen and the fact that it is more acceptable among others.

You only live once, have fun while it last.

Cheers


There ya go, Tors, excellent advice!

Stop wondering why, don't crack it open and analyze it.

In the USA as young adult I was enamored with the Disney organization. Loved the films and theme parks. So I decided I may like to work for the organization, and began to pursue a career there. Delving beneath the crust of that behemoth revealed warts and horrors that forever changed the magic for me. Now I can no longer enjoy Disney products to the same degree - I've seen the 'whys' and 'wherefores.'

So, for those of you that, like me, are enjoying this theme park we call Chinese Girls, please pay no attention to what goes on behind the curtain. Pay your ticket price and ride - again and again.

Ni men bu yao xiang tai duo le - Y'all don't think too much!

Ira

[Harold Bell]

[QUOTE=Blacklisted
The thing that has struck me as a bit weird is that she likes to call me papa, daddy, etc. etc. which is something I've not come across before and find rather fascinating and slightly humourous, so I wanted to ask opinions of you guys on what is going on with that and if it's common etc. in your opinions.[/QUOTE]

Calling friends by relationship words like "uncle" (shushu) or "grampa" (yeye) is pretty common between Chinese people too. Perhaps she thinks you her "ganbaba" (foster father).

[Middleway]

...Generally young chinese girls do not like to be with older foreign men....That's surprising. Older foreign men are probably more financially secure than others. Would these same girls still prefer older Chinese men to older foreigners? Or is it that they simply don't want to be with older men period. It's the "foreign" element I would like you comment about. I would think the older foreigner would trump his Chinese counterpart 8 out of 10 times.

[Loveasiangirls]

Woo.. do not look to me as a guru, dude. I screw up royally.

I've had a lot of freebies here, especially before I settled down with this girl and the girl before her, but having a lot requires a lot of maintenance - messages, chats, etc.

Anyway, if I have a system it is this:

1. answer ads on classifieds site.............
.............. Oh - if you can make a simple omelette and a cup of tea you are so golden the next day...

Ok, get going. Report back to me in a few months and let me know how it is going. Maybe like me you will get so tired of it you will choose the best one and settle down....

...for a while. That's right, there is not telling if I will pull a MacArthur and return.

Ira

I agree with the above. It has been my exact same approach in Beijing.
It is a lot of work but has it rewards. The key thing is to know when to pull the plug so as not to waste time. It is a delicate balance between patience to build the trust and reading the negative hints well. Some say they are conservative and have little experience but they are a thrill to catch.
There seems to be a lot of guys out there with no class and who are too direct. Leaves more for us.
I also agree that the problem is to get rid of them. You need to find a reason why this will not work and have them agree with this reason so as to make it as smooth as possible.
And, yes, a small amount of cooking skills always has a great impact.

[Amadeuss]

That's surprising. Older foreign men are probably more financially secure than others. Would these same girls still prefer older Chinese men to older foreigners? Or is it that they simply don't want to be with older men period. It's the "foreign" element I would like you comment about. I would think the older foreigner would trump his Chinese counterpart 8 out of 10 times.

Educated Chinese girls, nowadays with a decent income allowing them to be independent, are still dreaming of a real long time relationship and will accept an age difference of max 10 years. Above and you are an "uncle". She wants to be accepted with her catch at family and friends.

Uneducated girls - out for the money only - they accept anything, as long as the money is right. But then, to meet them and communicating with them as non-chinese speaker can be a pain in de ass.

[Ira Johnson]

Generally young chinese girls do not like to be with older foreign men.

I respect your words, Sammon, but I think this may be somewhat inaccurate. Remember China is not homogeneous. Maybe it is more acceptable in some areas and less so in others.

My Shanghai gal loves me but even months into the relationship is still concerned with perception - afraid people will view us through stereotype lenses, the old sexpat with the golddigger. She hates it when anyone discusses our relationship outside of us and her family. She's afraid that my friends will see her as a little *****.

My Jiangxi gal, on the other hand, went home after we started dating and her status went UP in her village, even though I could have been a fabrication for all they knew.

My Changchun GF was 24, and also a virgin. She was proud to be on my arm in and around Changchun, but in her parent's nearby village she referred to me as her teacher and friend.

I really think it varies. Yeah, our thread is about Chinese women, and there are some cultural constants here, but remember what a diverse place this is.

Yay! Assorted twentysomethings for us all! Dig in!

Ira

[Meiguoguizi]

Just spent the past week in Sanya with a 19 year old Hunan girl I've know for over a year. I'm just over 3 times her age.
We discuss her reaction to the stares that we... mostly she... gets wherever we go.
Her discomfort is not about 'us', it is about her thoughts about what the people are thinking when they stare, what they think about her.
Unlike westerners that are instilled with 'guilt' - an internal personal issue, chinese are bred with 'shame' - a reaction to external approbation.
There is no 'solution' to that problem. Even if we were married... and she knows that's not going to happen... she would continue to get the stares.
Some women will tolerate it, some will not. And likely the 'rural girls' are less concerned or less familiar with the situation.

[Middleway]

Educated Chinese girls, nowadays with a decent income allowing them to be independent, are still dreaming of a real long time relationship and will accept an age difference of max 10 years. Above and you are an "uncle". She wants to be accepted with her catch at family and friends.

Uneducated girls - out for the money only - they accept anything, as long as the money is right. But then, to meet them and communicating with them as non-chinese speaker can be a pain in de ass.Well said, Botaki6, and probably applies to most anywhere. However, I would like to point out that the two groups--educated w/good job and uneducated, jaded--comprise a small portion of the population of young women. Between your two groups lie the bulk of young women, who I believe will be more security-conscious than their counterparts elsewhere, though less than the jaded ones. This middle group also may have enough smarts to help bridge the communication gap you speak of regarding the low group.

Many posts to ISG indicate that coupling between older foreign men and young Chinese women is not unusual. Surely some Chinese women prefer Chinese men. Many more might even say that but waver in actuality. The sophistication and financial wherewithal of older, educated western men might be seductive enough to win them over.

[Blacklisted]

Most of my recent GF's have been 23/24 (I'm mid 30's) and several were well educated Shanghai girls. Did get serious uncle treatment by a very stuck up little 19 YO Shanghai girl who eventually dumped me for a 27 YO laowai guy (halleluljah!) and she was immensely annoying. Never had that from other girls though. Still, well worth putting up with for a slice of 19YO punani, I'm sure we'd all agree!

Current 20YO girl has far less issues with it than I do but I guess there are always exceptions to the rule and we Re dealing here with generalizations, but that's the nature of the beast!

[Andreas Wang]

She was immensely annoying. Still, well worth putting up with for a slice of 19YO punani, I'm sure we'd all agree!
Count me out. Annoyance is the #1 deal breaker for me.

Part of the attraction of p4p is to me the lack of drama. Drama is just another cost figured into "freebies" and I regret wasted time more than spent money.

Money I can make up on - lost time, never.

[Applecrate]

Count me out. Annoyance is the #1 deal breaker for me.

Part of the attraction of p4p is to me the lack of drama. Drama is just another cost figured into "freebies" and I regret wasted time more than spent money.

Money I can make up on - lost time, never.Precisely.

The true cost of drama and its many forms is hard to calculate. But it usually has the potential to be high.

Because it embodies many forms, drama has an unpredictable component to it. Exits can become tricky and morph into all sorts of "interesting" scenarios. For example the "ex-freebie" staking out the lobby of a five star hotel with two of her friends covering alternate entrances. This happened to a friend of mine who had recurring business meetings at that hotel. The "stalker stakeouts" lasted for more than a month.

P4P can be expensive in terms of money. Yet, it is to some degree predictable in that you can "pay the girl to leave" or settle your check at the sauna counter.

In short, P4P largely adheres to the rule of the No Drama Exit.

[OldAsiaHand]

In my experience, the younger they are; the more the drama. I manage a mix of freebies and P4P, albeit far more P4P with the younger set to avoid the drama. Most of my freebies are in their late 20s to early 30's which is still a 20+ year difference. There is much less drama in this age group.

All that said, most young Chinese girls are not doing "older foreigners" because we are handsome and charming and they want to get laid. Sorry if I bust any egos here. They always have an ulterior motive. And, think about the loss of face when its over. Thus, the drama.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Exile]

In my experience, the younger they are; the more the drama.

Yes, yes, yes. I have been more into freebies than P4P recently and 30 and up is generally a good are for being drama free. Under 25 and something always seems to happen, not that I ever really learn my lesson.

[Boss]

OAH:

Some time ago you mentioned you were married. Do you tell your freebies you are married upfront when you meet, or not at all? I was wondering how this affects your ability to get them in the sack.

I have found that by telling them either (a) I have a girlfriend, or (b) I'm not looking to get married, almost all potential freebies run. And I am reluctant to lie due to drama later.

Boss


In my experience, the younger they are; the more the drama. I manage a mix of freebies and P4P, albeit far more P4P with the younger set to avoid the drama. Most of my freebies are in their late 20s to early 30's which is still a 20+ year difference. There is much less drama in this age group.

All that said, most young Chinese girls are not doing "older foreigners" because we are handsome and charming and they want to get laid. Sorry if I bust any egos here. They always have an ulterior motive. And, think about the loss of face when its over. Thus, the drama.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Loveasiangirls]

In my experience, the younger they are; the more the drama. I manage a mix of freebies and P4P, albeit far more P4P with the younger set to avoid the drama. Most of my freebies are in their late 20s to early 30's which is still a 20+ year difference. There is much less drama in this age group.

All that said, most young Chinese girls are not doing "older foreigners" because we are handsome and charming and they want to get laid. Sorry if I bust any egos here. They always have an ulterior motive. And, think about the loss of face when its over. Thus, the drama.

Just my POV.

OAH

There will be drama with the freebie if you were not upfront with her and made some vague promises to get into her pants.
I agree with your comments It reminds me of a famous list circulation called "you know you've been in China too long when.." Another list called "you have not been in China long enough if..." On of the items is "...if you still think it is about your good looks"!!!

[Kajos]

I have found that by telling them either (a) I have a girlfriend, or (b) I'm not looking to get married, almost all potential freebies run. And I am reluctant to lie due to drama later.

Boss

I always tell them, to avoid drama. Letting them know up front, they then are willing participants and are less likely to want to get angry or vindictive for having been "tricked" or taken advantage of. Kind of empowering you know? It also keeps it more simple and the mutual expectations more clear and in the open. Very early on they almost always ask, "do you have a girlfriend?" and I answer "why, are you looking for a boyfriend?". The cool ones laugh and know it means yes. The dense ones might ask again to get a direct answer so I'll say "yes, does it matter?". If it does then it's probably not a good idea anyway. I think a lot of the Chinese KTV girls are good at compartmentalizing, taking things are they are, having fun, and moving on. As long as you don't start inferring that things are more than what they are, or making promises you can't keep.

[Blacklisted]

Guys, I lie to 95% of the girls because I know

1. they will definitely run if you tell the truth
2. Most are managing 3 or 4 other dudes anyway (part of the game)
3. I've taken specific insurance measures to ensure if it all goes south I can extricate myself from the situation with a minimum
of fuss. Not foolproof, but pretty close to it.

There are a few cool ones that I think u can usually spot quickly are
fine if u are married etc. And some enjoy the thrill of that for some reason but most have plenty of options, especially in Shanghai and won't waste time
with a guy already off the market.

I agree it's usually not about the looks, but sometimes it is damn hard to work out what it IS about, hence my earlier post!!

[Loveasiangirls]

The thing about telling the truth reminds me of a story I heard from a freebie I met on Adult Friend Finder in Beijing.
She said that she previously had a profile on Asian friend finder but the guys were too boring. They were contacting her and all talking about marriage. All the wanted was getting f***d. I made me laugh because I know western guys do not generally go on these websites looking for a wife, they were just telling the girls what they think the girls want to hear so they can get in their pants.
I am sure it works sometimes and then they end up with stalkers though.

[Bnlee2]

OAH:

Some time ago you mentioned you were married. Do you tell your freebies you are married upfront when you meet, or not at all? I was wondering how this affects your ability to get them in the sack.

I have found that by telling them either (a) I have a girlfriend, or (b) I'm not looking to get married, almost all potential freebies run. And I am reluctant to lie due to drama later.

BossBoss, I tell them upfront that im married with two college age kids. I find that telling them the truth will get a a lot of mileage. Lying will only get you into more trouble.

Just my POV

[OldAsiaHand]

OAH:

Some time ago you mentioned you were married. Do you tell your freebies you are married upfront when you meet, or not at all? I was wondering how this affects your ability to get them in the sack.

I have found that by telling them either (a) I have a girlfriend, or (b) I'm not looking to get married, almost all potential freebies run. And I am reluctant to lie due to drama later.

Boss

Boss,

I usually tell the truth (if they ask) and I lose 80+% of those opportunties. I've had troubles when I did not and they found out later. That said, many of the older group are still keen and there is less drama with them.

IMHO, not looking to get married, is not a disadvantage since many will think they can change your mind but still a risk of drama.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Douglas23]

I must say I enjoy playing with my gal with a toy or two once in a while.

Saunas are usually best - the girl usually brings her own stash though she is often seen sneaking them into me.... Zoinks !!

In hotel room with KTV girl or BBS girl I usually bring out my trusty electric toothbrush - cover it with condom...... put some rubbing oil (nice scented kind from tits to ass and start the vibrations on her nipples, descending to her clit.

I have had one squirter, one gal who took my toothbrush home at the end of my week happy as can be, and one gal - - a real pro who table danced at Zapata's in Shanghai, breathlessly tell me that "I was one of the best"... LOL - good ol' toothbrush and some imagination.

Anyhow - - seeing as Donguuan is Sex Toy mfg capital of world, I'm thinking of bringing a little stash with me and potentially adding to the arsenal once I arrive.

I'm looking for thoughts and advice - - once I put condom on toothbrush the anxiety level of girl falls and curiosity takes over. Would a smallish vibrator be too scary or in general are the girls game ?

All this stuff about conservatism, but I swear, there was a 6 inch vibrator right by the cash where the impulse items are at a 7-Eleven in Shanghai a few years back.

Tips and strategies appreciated.... including - god forbid - - don't go there....

Thanks in advance.

Field Reports coming - in two weeks.


D23

[SE Asia Joe]

Boss,

I usually tell the truth (if they ask) and I lose 80+% of those opportunties. I've had troubles when I did not and they found out later. That said, many of the older group are still keen and there is less drama with them.

IMHO, not looking to get married, is not a disadvantage since many will think they can change your mind but still a risk of drama.

Just my POV.

OAH
IMHO and my previous practices - I ALWAYS tell the truth when asked. I've had very few outright - "get outa my face" - and in fact, have had quite good experiences and worthwhile relationships.

But as an aside, I ALWAYS also insist on paying gals - whether in cash or in kind as
1. The sums involved is so small - realistically
2. I do know that even if they're genuinely interested in being with me for myself, that their situation is usually much worse than mine.
3. For those who do have $$ themselves, it's always a nice gesture to give them a little present or another - and it does set the boundaries with them - especially with them knowing full well that I AM married.

Chinese Gals are usually NOT as fazed with the marital status of guys as in more developed countries as they know that even if a guy is married, he usually does have "others' on the side - and for these "others," it can be a very fruitful relationship in that they get supported WELL and yet they don't have to bother with the usual dregs of actually being married; not a bad deal at all for them!

IMHO

SEAJ

[Santa]

At the LA airport, after returning from China, I had a problem going through security xray machines. The female attendant asked me to empty my bag because there was something at the bottom of the bag causing a problem.

I had forgotten about an electric dildo that I had purchased in Dongguan. Try to imagine the situation when she found an electric cock. :D

[Scoubidick]

Well, Ira's turnover system is a classic in modern dating, allowing, as many as us do or did COUNTLESS ongoing revolving fucking. When the countless point is reached, (very easy to know: you even don't remember half of the gals you banged dating) I think one have to consider back on earth ground, make a check-up on what are the leading trends make him still alive. It does mean retire from the hobby but look a bit further into the quest: the origin, the catch and the satisfaction recieved. It is crystal clear that for gal lovers, a year is made of 300 session at least. I just leave you calculate the number for a guy stay in hot spots like China or sea for 2, 5, 10 or 20 years.

[Bnlee2]

At the LA airport, after returning from China, I had a problem going through security xray machines. The female attendant asked me to empty my bag because there was something at the bottom of the bag causing a problem.

I had forgotten about an electric dildo that I had purchased in Dongguan. Try to imagine the situation when she found an electric cock. :DSanta,

Its okay, you're Santa and you always have goodies in the bags you are carrying. Just tell customs that you are testing out products to give to good boys and girls on your this year's list.

Custom officers were probably upset because you did not clean it and it still have some body fluid residue on it. You should have let them take it into their private office and try it out.

Just my two rmb on this. BTW, am I still on your 'good' list? I have been good on my recent trip into the motherland.

[Radical Guy]

At the LA airport, after returning from China, I had a problem going through security xray machines. The female attendant asked me to empty my bag because there was something at the bottom of the bag causing a problem.

I had forgotten about an electric dildo that I had purchased in Dongguan. Try to imagine the situation when she found an electric cock. :D

I'm sure that, in their jobs, they've seen it all, so they probably just took it in stride.

[Santa]

I'm sure that, in their jobs, they've seen it all, so they probably just took it in stride.

I was the one that was embarrassed by the vibrating sex toy. She held it up high for all the security people to see. Maybe they thought I used it on myself! They probably joked about it for weeks.

[Weelock]

Chinese Gals are usually NOT as fazed with the marital status of guys as in more developed countries as they know that even if a guy is married, he usually does have "others' on the side - and for these "others," it can be a very fruitful relationship in that they get supported WELL and yet they don't have to bother with the usual dregs of actually being married; not a bad deal at all for them!

IMHO

SEAJ

I few working girls and normal girls in China that I met did NOT believe I wasn't married or in a serious relationship. After getting to know them, some even wanted to be my girlfriend or wife. I am sure many will say that to most average looking single guys that's a foreigner. I try to be nice and give them the run around. I will think about it and let them know......



I was the one that was embarrassed by the vibrating sex toy. She held it up high for all the security people to see. Maybe they thought I used it on myself! They probably joked about it for weeks.


Are you stocking up for XMAS gifts...

[South Gate]

The official line of the party and the govt is that p4p is a degenerate form of exploitation. It is to be abolished.

The heart of CHina says that p4p is a normal enjoyable part of every day life. It is to be cherished.

There is a coffee and tea shop in the city I live in. It is in the center of town near the train station. The coffee is bitter instant. The tea is worse. That is because the waitresses dont sell coffee. They sell blow jobs and full service sex in a back room for 150 yuan and 300 for take out. Last time I went there, there was a sign on the window advertising for the hiring of waitresses. I sat down, ordered a cup of their lousy coffee and conversed with the laoban (mamasan). Our conversation went something like this:

I: I see you are hiring waitresses.
She: Yes Xi Xi quit and went home and Mi Mi is getting married next month. We need new girls.
I: Do they know that they have to give special service massages to the customers here?
She: Everybody knows what we do in this place. If they dont know, we tell them right away.
I: How many girls that dont know, turn the job down?
She: Maybe half. We usually turn them down. There are so many girls that want to work here.

Imagine this conversation in a similar establishment in the US. Not even close to possible. Secret apartment brothels in LA' Chinese suburbs advertise on the pages of Asian language magazines with discrete ads in order not to attract attention. Others are even more timid and only use word of mouth from friend to friend.

In some respects, it is China that is the land of the free.

[Sammon]

the official line of the party and the govt is that p4p is a degenerate form of exploitation. it is to be abolished.

the heart of china says that p4p is a normal enjoyable part of every day life. it is to be cherished.

there is a coffee and tea shop in the city i live in. it is in the center of town near the train station. the coffee is bitter instant. the tea is worse. that is because the waitresses dont sell coffee. they sell blow jobs and full service sex in a back room for 150 yuan and 300 for take out. last time i went there, there was a sign on the window advertising for the hiring of waitresses. i sat down, ordered a cup of their lousy coffee and conversed with the laoban (mamasan). our conversation went something like this:

i: i see you are hiring waitresses.
she: yes xi xi quit and went home and mi mi is getting married next month. we need new girls.
i: do they know that they have to give special service massages to the customers here?
she: everybody knows what we do in this place. if they dont know, we tell them right away.
i: how many girls that dont know, turn the job down?
she: maybe half. we usually turn them down. there are so many girls that want to work here.

imagine this conversation in a similar establishment in the us. not even close to possible. secret apartment brothels in la' chinese suburbs advertise on the pages of asian language magazines with discrete ads in order not to attract attention. others are even more timid and only use word of mouth from friend to friend.

in some respects, it is china that is the land of the free.
in many countries courting a working girl for sex is accepted. however it is mainly reserved for locals. in china almost all the men with money who i met doing business had young mistresses. sometimes it is so blatant that they sit at the board meeting acting like a secretary for that person. more often the girls come for lunch or dinner or night club after the meeting. i was asked many time if i had a chinese gf and why i did not bring her with me. i did have a chinese gf but i will never dare to take her to meetings. the same thing applies to establishment whether it is a coffee shop, barber shop , ktv, massage etc. everybody knows it is a front for prostitution. the government tolerates it as part of local entertainment.
the problem arises when foreigners get involved in frequenting these places. then the government which does not want to be known as sex destination and the stigma comes with it tries to crack down. this is what happened in shenzhen. before everything was tolerated including hk chinese coming there to have fun. once foreign businessmen and punters like us came often it got the attention of the government and started cracking down.
most of these crackdown is limited to bigger cities. i have gone to smaller towns and sex business is not affected at all mainly because the customers are local. these establishment never hide the fact and openly tell the girls what they have to do in order to be employed there.
many a times **** girls are employed here but for locals it is no problem.

[South Gate]

six months ago, i was walking with my girlfriend (not a working girl) . she gets a text message and shows it to me. one of the most elegant of km hotels is asking for help in its new sauna/massage establishment. they want girls who are "pretty and open minded". pay is good up to 10000 rmb per month.

now my gf never participated in p4p sex and is relatively conservative. how did the hotel get her cell number to send such an ad? the answer is that they buy lists of numbers from dian xin, lian tong and yi dong and send openly to all the females in the age group they are looking for.

can you imagine this happening in the us? even craig s list erotic services got shut down.

if the chinese govt continues to be more and more responsive to its people as they have been doing since mao died, this openness will grow. chinese people, including non wg women have been living in a polyamorous society for centuries and are very open to p4p. during the summer "crackdowns", people were outraged when the police paraded working girls through the streets to make them ashamed of their profession.

sammon's observation regarding taking your courtesan to the business meeting is an example of this growing openness.

in many countries courting a working girl for sex is accepted. however it is mainly reserved for locals. in china almost all the men with money who i met doing business had young mistresses. sometimes it is so blatant that they sit at the board meeting acting like a secretary for that person. more often the girls come for lunch or dinner or night club after the meeting. i was asked many time if i had a chinese gf and why i did not bring her with me. i did have a chinese gf but i will never dare to take her to meetings. the same thing applies to establishment whether it is a coffee shop, barber shop , ktv, massage etc. everybody knows it is a front for prostitution. the government tolerates it as part of local entertainment.
the problem arises when foreigners get involved in frequenting these places. then the government which does not want to be known as sex destination and the stigma comes with it tries to crack down. this is what happened in shenzhen. before everything was tolerated including hk chinese coming there to have fun. once foreign businessmen and punters like us came often it got the attention of the government and started cracking down.
most of these crackdown is limited to bigger cities. i have gone to smaller towns and sex business is not affected at all mainly because the customers are local. these establishment never hide the fact and openly tell the girls what they have to do in order to be employed there.
many a times **** girls are employed here but for locals it is no problem.

[Rob Raxcal]

Hello,

I was hoping that someone can help me find any type of 'services' as I have been unable to as of yet. I live in Xiamen and I have posted on that thread but on one has responded. It has been 3 months and I still have no idea how to find these places. Can someone help please? Maybe I need to print something in Chinese and give to a taxi driver? I don't know, I think the fact that I don't know any Chinese isn't helping. Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

[Chill Out]

It has been 3 months (...) the fact that I don't know any Chinese isn't helping (...) suggestions appreciated.Maybe.

Learn some Chinese?

[Waldeck2]

Don't have an issue. Get into a taxi, smiling (with a leer on your face) the driver will want to know where he/she should go. Make a fist with your left hand, take the forefinger of your right hand and stick it into your fist. Leer, move your hips a little. He/she may kick you out. If that happens try another taxi. When you get to the location, determine the cost before you commit. Look you've got a choice, fear in one hand and a dick that wants to fuck in the other. Take your pick. This is China after all. Best pussy in the world. Well maybe Korean or Thai or Brazilian.


Hello,

I was hoping that someone can help me find any type of 'services' as I have been unable to as of yet. I live in Xiamen and I have posted on that thread but on one has responded. It has been 3 months and I still have no idea how to find these places. Can someone help please? Maybe I need to print something in Chinese and give to a taxi driver? I don't know, I think the fact that I don't know any Chinese isn't helping. Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

[Stegram]

Don't have an issue. Get into a taxi, smiling (with a leer on your face) the driver will want to know where he/she should go. Make a fist with your left hand, take the forefinger of your right hand and stick it into your fist. Leer, move your hips a little. He/she may kick you out. If that happens try another taxi. When you get to the location, determine the cost before you commit. Look you've got a choice, fear in one hand and a dick that wants to fuck in the other. Take your pick. This is China after all. Best pussy in the world. Well maybe Korean or Thai or Brazilian.If you want pussy - you can't BE a pussy.

Get out there and make it happen.

[Blacklisted]

Hello,

I was hoping that someone can help me find any type of 'services' as I have been unable to as of yet. I live in Xiamen and I have posted on that thread but on one has responded. It has been 3 months and I still have no idea how to find these places. Can someone help please? Maybe I need to print something in Chinese and give to a taxi driver? I don't know, I think the fact that I don't know any Chinese isn't helping. Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks


No offense, but you sound a bit like an accident waiting to happen. First of all, I'd suggest reading extensively on the China boards. Never go with touts, ever, at all. Even be a bit careful with the taxi suggestion.

DO learn some Chinese, some basic stuff.

Everywhere u go at night in a taxi, keep an eye out for pink lights indicating a BBS. don't pay more than 200 for full service in these places.

Make friends ASAP. there are sure to be other guys in Xiamen, even if not on the board who are like-minded in chasing girls.

You're sitting on a gold mine and you don't know it - many smaller cities like Xiamen are still full of p4p girls, you just need to know where to look.

Make the most of it, but know what NOT to do as much as you know what to do or you could be the one who ends up getting fucked. And not in a good way.

Good luck! Wish I was stuck in Xiamen for three months!!

[Rob Raxcal]

Geez, some of you guys are ruthless. Thanks for the advice Chillout to learn some Chinese. Such an astute observation (you should be able to pick up sarcasm here). Of course learning Chinese is much easier said than done. Thank you Blacklisted for your advice. I have scoured this website and I am on the lookout but it is still hard. So subtle but I am beginning to see signs. By the way what exactly is a BBS? I know, look for other posts but they never really explain what they are, just reports. Sorry but I am new to this but you can be sure that if and when I score I will report here to let others know. Do these BBS have chinese characters? Perhaps if I knew the characters I could find them. I think that I have seen some possibilities but I cant be sure. These places are all so dark and I dont just want to walk in on something that is not what it seems. Anyway I appreciate the suggestions, keep em coming. In the meantime, I will keep looking. Thanks


No offense, but you sound a bit like an accident waiting to happen. First of all, I'd suggest reading extensively on the China boards. Never go with touts, ever, at all. Even be a bit careful with the taxi suggestion.

DO learn some Chinese, some basic stuff.

Everywhere u go at night in a taxi, keep an eye out for pink lights indicating a BBS. don't pay more than 200 for full service in these places.

Make friends ASAP. there are sure to be other guys in Xiamen, even if not on the board who are like-minded in chasing girls.

You're sitting on a gold mine and you don't know it - many smaller cities like Xiamen are still full of p4p girls, you just need to know where to look.

Make the most of it, but know what NOT to do as much as you know what to do or you could be the one who ends up getting fucked. And not in a good way.

Good luck! Wish I was stuck in Xiamen for three months!!

[South Gate]

But we dont mean a place to get a hair cut. There are barber shops where you get a hair cut and there are BBS where you get sexual services. The latter are distinguished by pink lights, young women with tight fitting clothes sitting around doing nothing but looking out the door or chatting with each other and nobody getting their hair cut inside. You dont have to know Chinese. All you have to do is go in. If they start saying "massagee, massagee", you are in a BBS. If they lead you to a chair and ask you something about your hair, you are ready for a haircut.

Usually the BBS places are all in the same street or neighborhood. This is frequently but not always near a train station or near a neighborhood with a lot of hotels. BBS can be very dirty but some are relatively clean. If you dont know Chinese, your experience will be a bit clinical and the girls usually try to upsell with additional services like two girls or three girls or four. Some BBS just offer hand jobs, some blow jobs, some full service.

I have never asked a cab driver where girls are though that is certainly a resource. Just keep your eyes open for BBS places when you are traveling around town. You will find them.

I prefer saunas to BBS but there also it helps to speak a little Chinese. In saunas, you must be open with the management about what you want. You WILL NOT BE ARRESTED for asking for full service or for gesturing with fist and finger as suggested by another post. If they dont have that service, they will tell you and you can leave. If they do have that service, they will be very happy that you are interested and will lead you to a room with a large bed, a bath and sometimes some strange paraphernalia like a big beach ball and bars over the bed. Then they will bring in a few angels for you to choose from. I recommend choosing the one who gives you eye contact and shows interest. After you pick her, they will leave you alone with her and she will discuss the price of services. If there are more than one full service items on the menu, I suggest taking the cheapest one. Then the fun starts. Let us know how it comes out.

Geez, some of you guys are ruthless. Thanks for the advice Chillout to learn some Chinese. Such an astute observation (you should be able to pick up sarcasm here). Of course learning Chinese is much easier said than done. Thank you Blacklisted for your advice. I have scoured this website and I am on the lookout but it is still hard. So subtle but I am beginning to see signs. By the way what exactly is a BBS? I know, look for other posts but they never really explain what they are, just reports. Sorry but I am new to this but you can be sure that if and when I score I will report here to let others know. Do these BBS have chinese characters? Perhaps if I knew the characters I could find them. I think that I have seen some possibilities but I cant be sure. These places are all so dark and I dont just want to walk in on something that is not what it seems. Anyway I appreciate the suggestions, keep em coming. In the meantime, I will keep looking. Thanks

[Sammon]

China maybe intimidating to many first time punters looking for fun. I hate BBS but I have taken some for LT to my place. BBS rooms are dingy and dirty.The challenge is how to go into BBS and ask for sex if you do not know some Chinese words. If you go and show signs about sex ofcourse they will say no, go away. In spite of modern China, many do not like foreigners. It is not like Thailand or Philippines where they openly like foreigners.
The trick is to get friendly first without going and asking for sex right away. BBS shops do haircuts also. When the say massage and you say OK, it maybe only head and neck and some shoulder massage right there on the chair. Best thing to do is go in there and tell them you do not know Chinese and only know english. They will find somebody from around who speaks broken english. Now you can negotiate and tell them what you want and how much you are willing to pay.

[Pushkin13]

... Of course learning Chinese is much easier said than done. ... Do these BBS have chinese characters? Perhaps if I knew the characters I could find them. I think that I have seen some possibilities but I cant be sure. ... Thanks

But having said that it is easier said than done ... make a start to learn Chinese.

The Chinese language (pu tong hua = Standard Chinese) (or some close variation of it) is the mother tongue about 800 million people and not all of them are geniuses. :)

Just my observation (that not all of them are geniuses).

Just my experience ... that the more Chinese (pu tong hua) that you know, the easier it is to get your dick wet.

Enjoy and report.

P13

[Diveguy69]

Hello,

I was hoping that someone can help me find any type of 'services' as I have been unable to as of yet. I live in Xiamen and I have posted on that thread but on one has responded. It has been 3 months and I still have no idea how to find these places. Can someone help please? Maybe I need to print something in Chinese and give to a taxi driver? I don't know, I think the fact that I don't know any Chinese isn't helping. Any suggestions appreciated.

ThanksNear Sheraton Hotel in Xiamen there are some SW. A few massage establishments as well all over the city. Taxi can take you but usually end up at the ones offering comission.

[Blacklisted]

But having said that it is easier said than done ... make a start to learn Chinese.

The Chinese language (pu tong hua = Standard Chinese) (or some close variation of it) is the mother tongue about 800 million people and not all of them are geniuses. :)

Just my observation (that not all of them are geniuses).

Just my experience ... that the more Chinese (pu tong hua) that you know, the easier it is to get your dick wet.

Enjoy and report.

P13

but doesn't really help the guy in the short term...

Chinese is a bastard of a language to learn for any non-Asian, and for many Asians for that matter due to the fact it's all tonal. Japanese seems to pick it up quick.

Try also other mongering websites since ISG is thin on info for Xiamen. A good sauna is the best, but you are up for 500 to 800 RMB for that. Well worth it though.

Characters aren't gonna help u find a BBS- honestly, you'd be blind not to spot them due to the pink light and scantily clad girls in them. The common written words for BBS on Chinese FYI anyway are 美容美发店。

make some friends and hunt in packs. We expect reports because we're eager to laugh at a newbies clumsy experiences at first tome
mongering in China!

Do not disappoint!!! :)

[Sammon]

but doesn't really help the guy in the short term...

Chinese is a bastard of a language to learn for any non-Asian, and for many Asians for that matter due to the fact it's all tonal. Japanese seems to pick it up quick.

Try also other mongering websites since ISG is thin on info for Xiamen. A good sauna is the best, but you are up for 500 to 800 RMB for that. Well worth it though.

Characters aren't gonna help u find a BBS- honestly, you'd be blind not to spot them due to the pink light and scantily clad girls in them. The common written words for BBS on Chinese FYI anyway are 美容美发店。

make some friends and hunt in packs. We expect reports because we're eager to laugh at a newbies clumsy experiences at first tome
mongering in China!

Do not disappoint!!! :)
Chinese is not easy to learn. I lived in China. In spite of my GF teaching me I fell short many a time. It is not only what you say but how you say is what matters. Many of the same sentences have double meaning depending on how you say it.
Unless you live in China forget learning Chinese. Casual visitor monger it is not hard to find girls.

[DoItUnderwater]

Help for Newbies. BBS

I can't specifically help you with Xiamen but here are some thoughts from a guy who has come to China many times, is a regular lurker but an infrequent poster.

Learning some basic Chinese will help immensely. It doesn't need to be much. Just being able to say Hello, (Ni hao), excuse me (Dway boo chee), thank yu (shay shay), and "don't want" (Boo yow), will make a huge difference in how people treat you. For the purists reading this, I know I am not spelling using proper pinyin – I am spelling to help a newbie know how these words actually sound. Also, learn numbers 1 to 10 and 100. Carry a small calculator and you can use that to communicate price. Smile and be friendly. Act like a guest in their country – because you are! Remember that Chinese people are like western people when it comes to sex. It is not some taboo here.

BBS – They range all over the map in terms of quality, cleanliness and service. Expect you will have some good times and some disappointments. You will not find these on the main roads. They are usually in the smaller grid roads interspersed with various small shops. Go to a train or subway station and just start walking a grid search around it. Things to look for:

Pink lighting

Barbershop pole type rotating lights

Signs in English that say "massage"

Shops with several girls sitting around looking bored.

Sometimes these girls scantily dressed, sometimes not.

If you see more bare legs than anything else, you can be sure of extras.

If there are people getting their hair cut, this is not the right place.

Carry with you:

Only as much money as you are prepared to give up.

Condoms that will fit you if you plan to get full service.

A photocopy of your ID card or passport. Never give up the original.

Small calculator.

Name card of your hotel with Chinese in case you get lost.

Expect:

To be led into a back room that may only have curtains for privacy.

To keep most of your clothes on unless they give you cheap pants to change into.

A lousy massage. If you get a good massage it may just be a legit massage place!

To be asked if you want more girls. Often a lot of upsell pressure.

After a few minutes of massage they will touch your dick looking for your reaction.

Once they have your dick in their hands the negotiating is in their favor.

You can use hand gestures to indicate what you want.

Only pay when you are done.

Some times you will hit the jackpot, sometimes you waste your money. That's BBS.

Mostly, get out there. Look around. Try some places. Find one you like and be a repeat customer. Believe me the payoff for that is great!

Have fun. Play safe.


Hello,

I was hoping that someone can help me find any type of 'services' as I have been unable to as of yet. I live in Xiamen and I have posted on that thread but on one has responded. It has been 3 months and I still have no idea how to find these places. Can someone help please? Maybe I need to print something in Chinese and give to a taxi driver? I don't know, I think the fact that I don't know any Chinese isn't helping. Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

[Gualtier Malde]

Sammon is right, it isn't easy to learn the language. I'm living here now, hope to start picking it up.

But so what? it is so damn easy to find women here. I'm not even out mongering yet, and I already have one on IM that wants to be my driver (naked, she said, hehe), another was my caddy at golf, and by the 13th hole she was holding my hand as we walked the fairway, now sends me SMS messages every day. She's damn cute too.

Ah, China. They can crack down on the venues, but they can't suppress the sex.

GM


Chinese is not easy to learn. I lived in China. In spite of my GF teaching me I fell short many a time. It is not only what you say but how you say is what matters. Many of the same sentences have double meaning depending on how you say it.
Unless you live in China forget learning Chinese. Casual visitor monger it is not hard to find girls.

[DoItUnderwater]

I can't specifically help you with Xiamen but here are some thoughts from a guy who has come to China many times, is a regular lurker but an infrequent poster.

Learning some basic Chinese will help immensely. It doesn't need to be much. Just being able to say Hello, (Ni hao), excuse me (Dway boo chee), thank yu (shay shay), and "don't want" (Boo yow), will make a huge difference in how people treat you. For the purists reading this, I know I am not spelling using proper pinyin – I am spelling to help a newbie know how these words actually sound. Also, learn numbers 1 to 10 and 100. Carry a small calculator and you can use that to communicate price. Smile and be friendly. Act like a guest in their country – because you are! Remember that Chinese people are like western people when it comes to sex. It is not some taboo here.

BBS – They range all over the map in terms of quality, cleanliness and service. Expect you will have some good times and some disappointments. You will not find these on the main roads. They are usually in the smaller grid roads interspersed with various small shops. Go to a train or subway station and just start walking a grid search around it. Things to look for:

Pink lighting

Barbershop pole type rotating lights

Signs in English that say "massage"

Shops with several girls sitting around looking bored.

Sometimes these girls scantily dressed, sometimes not.

If you see more bare legs than anything else, you can be sure of extras.

If there are people getting their hair cut, this is not the right place.

Carry with you:

Only as much money as you are prepared to give up.

Condoms that will fit you if you plan to get full service.

A photocopy of your ID card or passport. Never give up the original.

Small calculator.

Name card of your hotel with Chinese in case you get lost.

Expect:

To be led into a back room that may only have curtains for privacy.

To keep most of your clothes on unless they give you cheap pants to change into.

A lousy massage. If you get a good massage it may just be a legit massage place!

To be asked if you want more girls. Often a lot of upsell pressure.

After a few minutes of massage they will touch your dick looking for your reaction.

Once they have your dick in their hands the negotiating is in their favor.

You can use hand gestures to indicate what you want.

Only pay when you are done.

Some times you will hit the jackpot, sometimes you waste your money. That's BBS.

Mostly, get out there. Look around. Try some places. Find one you like and be a repeat customer. Believe me the payoff for that is great!

Have fun. Play safe.


Geez, some of you guys are ruthless. Thanks for the advice Chillout to learn some Chinese. Such an astute observation (you should be able to pick up sarcasm here). Of course learning Chinese is much easier said than done. Thank you Blacklisted for your advice. I have scoured this website and I am on the lookout but it is still hard. So subtle but I am beginning to see signs. By the way what exactly is a BBS? I know, look for other posts but they never really explain what they are, just reports. Sorry but I am new to this but you can be sure that if and when I score I will report here to let others know. Do these BBS have Chinese characters? Perhaps if I knew the characters I could find them. I think that I have seen some possibilities but I can't be sure. These places are all so dark and I don't just want to walk in on something that is not what it seems. Anyway I appreciate the suggestions, keep them coming. In the meantime, I will keep looking. Thanks

[SE Asia Joe]

Sammon is right, it isn't easy to learn the language. I'm living here now, hope to start picking it up.

But so what? it is so damn easy to find women here. I'm not even out mongering yet, and I already have one on IM that wants to be my driver (naked, she said, hehe), another was my caddy at golf, and by the 13th hole she was holding my hand as we walked the fairway, now sends me SMS messages every day. She's damn cute too.

Ah, China. They can crack down on the venues, but they can't suppress the sex.

GM
Tiger.
Tiger!
TIGER....!!!!

Is that you??

SEAJ

[Gualtier Malde]

Tiger.
Tiger!
TIGER....!!!!

Is that you??

SEAJ


HAHA, I wish! But this little caddy seems like she'll be happy with my putter...

GM

[Rob Raxcal]

All right now that is some great advice. Thanks to all for your help. It really has helped. Keep in coming.

So why do you say that I should bring a copy of my passport? To a massage place?
Anyway, I have posted a trip report on the xiamen page of my first experience. It was great. Check it out and thanks again.

[DoItUnderwater]

When traveling I always want to have some sort of identification just in case something happens. I mean, people get sick, hit by cars, and all kinds of things every day. Imagine what a headache it would be if you had no ID in a foreign country and something happened.

Mostly, I want to keep my original passport safe so I carry a photocopy. I also carry only one credit card.

Mind you, I have never had any problem in China. I think it is a very safew place and walk around day or night. Of course keep your wits about you, don't follow touts and don; t be stupid and you should be fine.

Play safe!


All right now that is some great advice. Thanks to all for your help. It really has helped. Keep in coming.

So why do you say that I should bring a copy of my passport? To a massage place?
Anyway, I have posted a trip report on the xiamen page of my first experience. It was great. Check it out and thanks again.

[Csun213]

Chinese is not easy to learn. I lived in China. In spite of my GF teaching me I fell short many a time. It is not only what you say but how you say is what matters. Many of the same sentences have double meaning depending on how you say it.
Unless you live in China forget learning Chinese. Casual visitor monger it is not hard to find girls.

I agree that Chinese is very hard to learn. The sound of the word has a lot to do with the meaning. This is why you will see Chinese sub-titles on just about all Chinese videos.

[Csun213]

All right now that is some great advice. Thanks to all for your help. It really has helped. Keep in coming.

So why do you say that I should bring a copy of my passport? To a massage place?
Anyway, I have posted a trip report on the xiamen page of my first experience. It was great. Check it out and thanks again.

It is always a good idea to keep a copy of your passport on your person in a foreign country just in case anything that may happen.

[Loveasiangirls]

It is always a good idea to keep a copy of your passport on your person in a foreign country just in case anything that may happen.

In China, it is the law that you must have your passport (not a copy) with you at all times.

[South Gate]

I am a foreigner. I live in China for more than five years. When going out to a massage place or sauna or to buy a coke or a meal, I never carry my passport or a copy. Have I been stopped by police? Once or twice but never any problem. If they really want to see my documents, they go with me to my hotel or home and look at the documents there. So I am not sure why this is an issue. I prefer not to have my passport for fear of loss or theft. I could carry a copy but dont understand why I have to.

In China, it is the law that you must have your passport (not a copy) with you at all times.

[Forbidden Kid]

I am a foreigner. I live in China for more than five years. When going out to a massage place or sauna or to buy a coke or a meal, I never carry my passport or a copy. Have I been stopped by police? Once or twice but never any problem. If they really want to see my documents, they go with me to my hotel or home and look at the documents there. So I am not sure why this is an issue. I prefer not to have my passport for fear of loss or theft. I could carry a copy but dont understand why I have to.

Normally I would prefer if cops did not follow me to my home. So while I do keep a copy, I sharpie out all important information ie my passport number and visa number. If they need those I will give it to them if the situation deems fit.

[Santa]

It is always a good idea to keep a copy of your passport on your person in a foreign country just in case anything that may happen.

Reasons to Carry Your ID:

I agree with Csun. If you are caught up in a raid, accident or something, and you have to deal with police, they are more likely to let you go on your way if you have ID. If you have no ID they may need to bring you in for some reason and hold you, and then you are more likely to dragged in to what ever the problem is.

Also, "if something happens to you" they will know who you are.

I also agree with South Gate. I don't want to conform to authoritarian rules. I prefer a peaceful resistance and non co-opperation, when i can. Resistance to conformity.

Take your choice.

[Chill Out]

Geez, some of you guys are ruthless. Thanks for the advice Chillout to learn some Chinese. Such an astute observationWell I had to point it out because you mentioned being there for 3 months. How long does it take to learn "take me to prositutes" or something similar in Chinese (or any language)? Probably about 2 minutes. That's really all you need, and a willing/knowledgeable taxi driver. You can change drivers multiple times until you find the one who laughs and who knows. Any price negotiation afterwards can take place using sign language and a calculator etc. It's part of the fun. My comment wasn't really ruthless, just pointing out to you that you are limiting yourself for no good reason. It's not that hard. Especially in provincial cities. Have fun with it.

[Weelock]

Reasons to Carry Your ID:

I agree with Csun. If you are caught up in a raid, accident or something, and you have to deal with police, they are more likely to let you go on your way if you have ID. If you have no ID they may need to bring you in for some reason and hold you, and then you are more likely to dragged in to what ever the problem is.

Also, "if something happens to you" they will know who you are.

I also agree with South Gate. I don't want to conform to authoritarian rules. I prefer a peaceful resistance and non co-opperation, when i can. Resistance to conformity.

Take your choice.

I recall LE was behind the Lucky Hotel in CP checking for ID for everybody. If you didn't have an ID, you were put into a paddy wagon. It was for both males and females.

I was with 2 other ISG guys and we were standing there for about 1-2 hour. We were watching LE pulling in girls/guys left and right. It was like a road block with about 10 LE. I think it was just before CNY.


Going into Shenzhen once required an ID to enter and they checked everyone. Now it more relaxed but they still check the buses coming from BoaAn into Shenzhen from time to time.

[SE Asia Joe]

I recall LE was behind the Lucky Hotel in CP checking for ID for everybody. If you didn't have an ID, you were put into a paddy wagon. It was for both males and females.

I was with 2 other ISG guys and we were standing there for about 1-2 hour. We were watching LE pulling in girls/guys left and right. It was like a road block with about 10 LE. I think it was just before CNY.


Going into Shenzhen once required an ID to enter and they checked everyone. Now it more relaxed but they still check the buses coming from BoaAn into Shenzhen from time to time.
No its not more relaxed now - at least not during the Asian games period.

ALL passengers checking into the CRH trains in Shenzhen and everybody, just going into the Guangzhou East Station (even before buying a ticket) has to go through an ID check, Bag scan and full body search. PRC citizens have to give their ID card entered into a lap top which matches the physical ID card to the image/details that comes up; foreigners need to only flash their Passport/HK Id card.

Arriving in Chang Ping, you will be looking at 6 or more PSB officers some manning semi automatic weapons at a desk now set up at the exit.

SEAJ

[AsnDragon]

SEAJoe,


Although it does get a bit nerve-racking when there are guys carrying semi automatic rifles round, but in some sense, doesn't that feel a bit more...comforting or safe that if there were anybody from Xingjiang coming over to plot an attack, they will be prepared for it?

I think this also drives away some, not a lot, but some criminals seeking to cause trouble around the Southern China (guangdong region)

On a side note: at least the Asia Games has forced the local officials to start painting, renovating and making the buildings and infrastructure look nicer.


AsnDragon



No its not more relaxed now - at least not during the Asian games period.

ALL passengers checking into the CRH trains in Shenzhen and everybody, just going into the Guangzhou East Station (even before buying a ticket) has to go through an ID check, Bag scan and full body search. PRC citizens have to give their ID card entered into a lap top which matches the physical ID card to the image/details that comes up; foreigners need to only flash their Passport/HK Id card.

Arriving in Chang Ping, you will be looking at 6 or more PSB officers some manning semi automatic weapons at a desk now set up at the exit.

SEAJ

[Douglas23]

Joe

Been reading about the mammoth census being undertaken right now in China and when I saw all the requirements at exit and entry to trains I wondered if maybe it is part of census ? Certainly not a complete questionnaire by any means but perhaps a decent sampling of population that the big supercomputers can do some modeling of population ?

Whaddya think ?


No its not more relaxed now - at least not during the Asian games period.

ALL passengers checking into the CRH trains in Shenzhen and everybody, just going into the Guangzhou East Station (even before buying a ticket) has to go through an ID check, Bag scan and full body search. PRC citizens have to give their ID card entered into a lap top which matches the physical ID card to the image/details that comes up; foreigners need to only flash their Passport/HK Id card.

Arriving in Chang Ping, you will be looking at 6 or more PSB officers some manning semi automatic weapons at a desk now set up at the exit.

SEAJ

[SE Asia Joe]

Joe

Been reading about the mammoth census being undertaken right now in China and when I saw all the requirements at exit and entry to trains I wondered if maybe it is part of census ? Certainly not a complete questionnaire by any means but perhaps a decent sampling of population that the big supercomputers can do some modeling of population ?

Whaddya think ?
Nahhh.. IMHO/I think its got everything/only to do with the Asian Games.

The security doesn't seem to have been intensified any where else but around Guangdong.

Joe

[Jamie5063]

In China, it is the law that you must have your passport (not a copy) with you at all times.
True it is the law, like the driving laws, but You would be crazy to carry your real passport. I would prefer the fine to losing it. I keep a copy and been checked around 4 times in three years with no problem even in a large police station.
I used photo-shop to shrink to business card size and on the back I have a copy of my visa. Fits easy in the wallet or take a picture on your mobile instead. Maybe in GZ during the games I would perhaps recommend carry the real one.

[OldAsiaHand]

No offense, but you sound a bit like an accident waiting to happen. First of all, I'd suggest reading extensively on the China boards. Never go with touts, ever, at all. Even be a bit careful with the taxi suggestion.


Generally, I have good luck with taxi drivers in towns I am in for the first time and I have no intelligence from ISG or other sources. The only risk is that you get a scammer that is after a commission from the places he takes you. It is a good idea to catch a taxi away from your hotel since the scammers usually work the better hotels. Most guys are just keen to keep the meter running while you are hunting.

Most BBS allow takeout or will deliver to your hotel if you are not keen on the "walk of shame". Sometimes, takeout is a little more expensive and you should expect to pay the return taxi fare. IMHO, it is worth the little extra to have the girl in the clean, comfortable and safe environment of your hotel.

A little Chinese does help but is not absolutely necessary. If you can speak some, you are less likely to get ripped off since they know it is not your first time doing this.

All that said, BBS is still hit or miss in terms of service.

Just my POV.

OAH

[The Rooster]

I am a foreigner. I live in China for more than five years. When going out to a massage place or sauna or to buy a coke or a meal, I never carry my passport or a copy. Have I been stopped by police? Once or twice but never any problem. If they really want to see my documents, they go with me to my hotel or home and look at the documents there. So I am not sure why this is an issue. I prefer not to have my passport for fear of loss or theft. I could carry a copy but dont understand why I have to.I've been living off-and-on in China for about 6 years, and NEVER carry my passport; I do carry my driver's license. I've been checked a few dozen times by police (even when I was riding in a taxi that was hit by another car), and most recently 3 times on the bus ride from Ningbo back to Shanghai. In every case my driver's license was accepted without worry.

If an authority demanded a passport, like you said. They can come back to my house or hotel and see it. But so far, as a US citizen, a driver's license is more than enough proof that I'm who I say I am.

[Red Rock II]

I've been living off-and-on in China for about 6 years, and NEVER carry my passport; I do carry my driver's license. I've been checked a few dozen times by police (even when I was riding in a taxi that was hit by another car), and most recently 3 times on the bus ride from Ningbo back to Shanghai. In every case my driver's license was accepted without worry.

If an authority demanded a passport, like you said. They can come back to my house or hotel and see it. But so far, as a US citizen, a driver's license is more than enough proof that I'm who I say I am.

What kind of driver's license do you carry? Chinese driver's license or US driver's license?

[Fast Eddie 48]

I travel alot all over China if I am new to a city looking for BBS and sauna actions ,I will ask friend or taxi driver most of the time BBS are located near train or main bus stations ,most of the report in ISG are outdated crack down and closure of sauna happen alot here and thing change very fast in China .

Fast eddie 48

[Fast Eddie 48]

What kind of driver's license do you carry? Chinese driver's license or US driver's license?Red Rock,

Any photo ID is good and a copy of your US passport is also good ,I alway carry my US driver lic and my HKID both have my photo .

Fast Eddie 48

[Jeff Tv]

I used to carry my passport until a Beijing police officer told me it would be safer for me to carry a copy instead. Since then (4 years) I've been checked only twice, each time showing a copy of the temporary residence slip from my hotel/apartment was sufficient. Original/copy passport was not asked.

[Red Rock II]

Red Rock,

Any photo ID is good and a copy of your US passport is also good ,I alway carry my US driver lic and my HKID both have my photo .

Fast Eddie 48

Fast Eddie,

Whe you say "Any photo ID is good, A copy of US passport is also good" do you mean they are good for hotel or airport check in? I always have to show them the real passport eveything time when I check in a hotel or in the airport from one city to another. May be I do not have to?

RR

[Loveasiangirls]

Fast Eddie,

Whe you say "Any photo ID is good, A copy of US passport is also good" do you mean they are good for hotel or airport check in? I always have to show them the real passport eveything time when I check in a hotel or in the airport from one city to another. May be I do not have to?

RR
There is a difference between the law and what you can get away with. It often depends on circumstances and who you encounter. I am certainly aware of some who ended up at the police station for not having their passport. It also depends on the time of the year and if some event is happening in town (in which case they are more sensitive).
If you travel then what is wrong with showing your pasport at the hotel and airport? I know some people are afraid of having their passport stolen but frankly the thieves are a lot more interested in my money but I still carry my wallet every time I leave the house.


I used to carry my passport until a Beijing police officer told me it would be safer for me to carry a copy instead. Since then (4 years) I've been checked only twice, each time showing a copy of the temporary residence slip from my hotel/apartment was sufficient. Original/copy passport was not asked.

That works if you are a resident but tourists don't have a residence certificate.

[Sammon]

There is a difference between the law and what you can get away with. It often depends on circumstances and who you encounter. I am certainly aware of some who ended up at the police station for not having their passport. It also depends on the time of the year and if some event is happening in town (in which case they are more sensitive).
If you travel then what is wrong with showing your pasport at the hotel and airport? I know some people are afraid of having their passport stolen but frankly the thieves are a lot more interested in my money but I still carry my wallet every time I leave the house.



That works if you are a resident but tourists don't have a residence certificate.
I have stayed in Beijing For long number of days and went everywhere. Never was stopped and asked for I.D. Only during the Olympics many mongolians were stopped and jailed that I know of. Mainly for overstaying the visa. It is better to take the Hotel card with you so that if there is a problem they will call the hotel. remember all hotels in China make copies of your passport and Visa efore registering you. so there is no need to carry anything.
On the other hand if you are staying in an apartment, friends house etc, I suggest carry a copy of passport and visa. If the polkice are very strict passport copy alone will not be sufficient. Their checking is mainly to see if you have a legal entry permit , not to check your identity.
By the way actual law is all foregners are supposed to stay in hotels unless they have residence permits. Law also says interaction with locals should be limited to business.
Nobody dared to ask them if mongering business qualify!

[Philippebj]

To make long story short and complete:

1) you definitely need a passport in case you want to take the plane or check in at a hotel

For these purposes a copy is more or less toilet tissue, only less useful.

In case you want to stay somewhere overnight without to register, just look for a bath house (?) or sauna (?) or SPA with VIP-Rooms (cheaper than hotels, no registration). Many of them also offer food.

2) You do not need a residence permit to stay anywhere else than hotels.

You can stay by friends or rent an own apartment with any kind of valid visa but you must register by the local police station. Depending on the area you stay, the police station will request different documents (passport + rental contract or an address attest from the residence administration office (?). You must register within 24 hours after living at a place. The police will give you a so called "Registration form of temporary residence".

You just have to find out which police station is responsible for your area.

In case you stay at a hotel, the hotel will do that so you do not need to care about that.

During your stay you must go to the local police station once again in case

-you get a new passport

-you get a new visa

-you come back to the same place after having being abroad

You do not need to go there before leaving China.


I have stayed in Beijing For long number of days and went everywhere. Never was stopped and asked for I. D. Only during the Olympics many mongolians were stopped and jailed that I know of. Mainly for overstaying the visa. It is better to take the Hotel card with you so that if there is a problem they will call the hotel. Remember all hotels in China make copies of your passport and Visa efore registering you. So there is no need to carry anything.

On the other hand if you are staying in an apartment, friends house etc, I suggest carry a copy of passport and visa. If the polkice are very strict passport copy alone will not be sufficient. Their checking is mainly to see if you have a legal entry permit, not to check your identity.

By the way actual law is all foregners are supposed to stay in hotels unless they have residence permits. Law also says interaction with locals should be limited to business.

Nobody dared to ask them if mongering business qualify!

[Loveasiangirls]

I have stayed in Beijing For long number of days and went everywhere. Never was stopped and asked for I. D. Only during the Olympics many mongolians were stopped and jailed that I know of. Mainly for overstaying the visa. It is better to take the Hotel card with you so that if there is a problem they will call the hotel. Remember all hotels in China make copies of your passport and Visa efore registering you. So there is no need to carry anything.

On the other hand if you are staying in an apartment, friends house etc, I suggest carry a copy of passport and visa. If the polkice are very strict passport copy alone will not be sufficient. Their checking is mainly to see if you have a legal entry permit, not to check your identity.

By the way actual law is all foregners are supposed to stay in hotels unless they have residence permits. Law also says interaction with locals should be limited to business.

Nobody dared to ask them if mongering business qualify! I don't know where you get your info but it is wrong. Read the post below for a clear explanation of the rules.

I was never stopped but I am aware of many tourist being taken to the police station while they send a family member to the hotel to retrieve the passports.

Limited interactions with locals?

[Crazy Jim Wood]

I have stayed many times in a girl's place.

You should register with the police if you will be staying there for any period of time.

Suppose you stayed with one girl for one week, then went to stay the next week with a different girl.

The police discover you have not registered while staying with girl no. 2. So you and girl no. 2 go down to the police station and she explains everything to them. Until they see your passport and realize that girl no. 2 has accounted for only one week!

Now you must think very fast how to explain to the police where you were the first week while girl no. 2 is listening!

So you never know when it will bite you in the ass. In most cases girls do not want to talk to the police. So let her wait outside, you explain everything to the police, incase there are some issues with nights you spent at some other girl's place. The cops will call the girl to hear her explanation. They may make her come in and show her papers also. But best to explain any awkward situations first, then let them call her in. They are usually ok, they don't want to get into your private life, they just want to account for you, so like you get hit and killed by a car in their precinct they don't have to explain to their superiors how unregistered foreigners are dying in their precinct, and they know who to contact about the body or where to find your shit.

The penalty for not registering is like 50 RMB or something when I did it at leas, it must have been 2008. They also make you write a little self-criticism in chinese to explain how you have been a bad boy and next time you are in china fucking chinese girls in their appartments you will register with the cops. it was very funny i wonder if one day when i become famous my self-criticism will surface. don't play the i-dont-speak-chinese game it will make everything take twice as long.

Some very small hotels will not register you. Technically they should not let foreigners stay at such a small hotel.

But you can sometimes manage it.

If you have a one night stand at some girl's house don't worry about it. You can just explain to the police you stayed out all night.

If you arrive on a holiday or there is a snowstorm or volcano erruption and you cannot get to the police station they will understand. I think there is like a 24-48 hour grace period.

Just remember that they could fine your host, which would cause a huge hassle.

Also the 50. 00 RMB fine can only be paid at certain places.

But once oyu have stayed a few times you are in the police system you just give them same name same passport no. They remember you.

So just register with them if it I smore than 24-48 hours, especially if you want to avoid trouble with your hosts.

Police are also usually happy to back date your registration a few days.

Just be polite with them try to avoid any discussions of morals or politics don't let on you are fucking Chinese girls left and right, they know but don't rub their noses in it. They may even try to joke with you just be careful sometimes they are playing with you for their own jokes, just be polite. There are som hot cops also I would love to fuck a Chinese cop. Maybe one day.

The registration paperwork itself sometimes is necessary for renting a car, doing other activities that your usual tourist does not engage in.


To make long story short and complete:

1) you definitely need a passport in case you want to take the plane or check in at a hotel.

For these purposes a copy is more or less toilet tissue, only less useful.

In case you want to stay somewhere overnight without to register, just look for a bath house (?) or sauna (?) or SPA with VIP-Rooms (cheaper than hotels, no registration). Many of them also offer food.

2) You do not need a residence permit to stay anywhere else than hotels.

You can stay by friends or rent an own apartment with any kind of valid visa but you must register by the local police station. Depending on the area you stay, the police station will request different documents (passport + rental contract or an address attest from the residence administration office (?). You must register within 24 hours after living at a place. The police will give you a so called "Registration form of temporary residence".

You just have to find out which police station is responsible for your area.

In case you stay at a hotel, the hotel will do that so you do not need to care about that.

During your stay you must go to the local police station once again in case.

-you get a new passport.

-you get a new visa.

-you come back to the same place after having being abroad.

You do not need to go there before leaving China.

[Sammy_T]

In case you want to stay somewhere overnight without to register, just look for a bath house (?) or sauna (?) or SPA with VIP-Rooms (cheaper than hotels, no registration). Many of them also offer food.In Beijing they are now strictly requiring you to present your passport if you want to stay over night at a Sauna. In addition, the last time I visited my favorite sauna I was asked for my passport just to use a VIP room for a few hours.

Not all saunas may be abiding by these rules, but things are certainly strict in the city right now.

Sammy

[John Liu]

No cop has ever checked my passport yet. Maybe I'm just lucky, but a copy is good.

[Clandestine782]

This is something that I have been thinking about a lot.

1. The first part of this question is for the Chinese guys. If you had to guess, what percentage of you are willing to do it? And for that matter, does it vary with where the Chinese guy comes from? I could guess that Mainland guys are not willing to do it (though I don't know why) and that maybe Chinese guys from the States / Hong Kong are more willing so to do.

2. I have not been able to understand what some of my women friends / working girls think when a guy does this for them. One woman used the word &35722; &24907; ("abnormal"/"weird") and others seem to enjoy it. Since my Chinese is not very good with emotional words, then I'd ask the guys (Chinese and otherwise) what impression they get of women's feeling toward that act. Do most think it abnormal? Or submissive? Or gentle? Or loving?

3. I have heard more than one story on cunnilictus. I remember teaching some guys the word "cunnilingus" (&33300; &38512. In English and they were like "Oh, it is so dirty." (These were two young Chinese men.) For the Chinese men who won't offer this service, what is the reason that you aren't willing to do it?

4. For those of you that do offer that service, do you get the impression that a lot of women feel upset / underwhelmed when you do it but pretend to like it for your benefit? Or have they never had it and don't quite know what to think? Or do some actively seek it out?

I'm asking these questions out of general curiousity (1) and to guess what it might be like if I ever got around to hiring two (unshaved) working girls for role play to Force Me To Give Them Oral Pleasure (2). This is an idea that I got from watching a show on CCTV where there was a woman who hired some thug to kidnap a guy and then she tied him up and tried to force her attentions on him. He acted like he was afraid and felt violated (yeah, right). I am not sure if most Mainland girls would think that they were "forcing" me to do something dirty and feel shy / ashamed. Or if they would have sense enough to fall into the role play and act like "You like this, don't you, you dirty little boy!" (I would).

[Eaglestar]

This is something that I have been thinking about a lot.I am going to watch this post's replies as I have often wondered the same things he asked.

ES

[Mtraveller]

This is something that I have been thinking about a lot.

2. I have not been able to understand what some of my women friends / working girls think when a guy does this for them. One woman used the word &35722; &24907; ("abnormal"/"weird") and others seem to enjoy it. Since my Chinese is not very good with emotional words, then I'd ask the guys (Chinese and otherwise) what impression they get of women's feeling toward that act. Do most think it abnormal? Or submissive? Or gentle? Or loving?

4. For those of you that do offer that service, do you get the impression that a lot of women feel upset / underwhelmed when you do it but pretend to like it for your benefit? Or have they never had it and don't quite know what to think? Or do some actively seek it out? Not being Chinese but being an eager DATY provider to Chinese girls I choose to comment on 2) and 4).

I enjoyed a range of Chinese women over the last two years. Ranging from an "almost virgin" 19yr old to divorced housewives in their 30s. Some professional WG and some real beginners at the game (including some of the housewifes). Non of them were particularily dominant or submissive beyond the general passive / submissive stance women on avaerage prefer.

2) I think they feel its gentle, loving and possibly a bit kinky. Its not perceived as submissive by them. Never had a Chinese girl trying to dominate me. I usually switch from DATY to a slightly dominant role in penetration, which never was a problem.

50% of the girls I tried enjoyed it. Some enjoyed it VERY MUCH.

4) Never upset. Slightly surprised (because its not expected) to the positive. The ones who liked it generally become very passionate. I guess a few of them did not have (many) orgasm for a long time. They very clearly say they like. While its not common in China they do not feel ashamed about it either.

Some girls start to prefer European / American men who care to service them over the average Chinese guy. Very much the same way we (Caucasians on this board) prefer Asian girls. As some of the girls were divorced I guess they can compare quite well.

BTW: For those reading this, who seriously think about marrying a Chinese (or Japanese, Korean etc) women my recommendation is to go for a divorcee. They know what the want, their expectations have been adjusted by reality, they have standard to comapre to and you can negotiate the terms and conditions of married life with them without emotional hassle.

[Bob Builder]

I have stayed many times in a girl's place.

You should register with the police if you will be staying there for any period of time.

Suppose you stayed with one girl for one week, then went to stay the next week with a different girl.

The police discover you have not registered while staying with girl no. 2. So you and girl no. 2 go down to the police station and she explains everything to them. Until they see your passport and realize that girl no. 2 has accounted for only one week!

Now you must think very fast how to explain to the police where you were the first week while girl no. 2 is listening!

So you never know when it will bite you in the ass. In most cases girls do not want to talk to the police. So let her wait outside, you explain everything to the police, incase there are some issues with nights you spent at some other girl's place. The cops will call the girl to hear her explanation. They may make her come in and show her papers also. But best to explain any awkward situations first, then let them call her in. They are usually ok, they don't want to get into your private life, they just want to account for you, so like you get hit and killed by a car in their precinct they don't have to explain to their superiors how unregistered foreigners are dying in their precinct, and they know who to contact about the body or where to find your shit.

The penalty for not registering is like 50 RMB or something when I did it at leas, it must have been 2008. They also make you write a little self-criticism in Chinese to explain how you have been a bad boy and next time you are in China fucking Chinese girls in their appartments you will register with the cops. It was very funny I wonder if one day when I become famous my self-criticism will surface. Don't play the I-don't-speak-Chinese game it will make everything take twice as long.

Some very small hotels will not register you. Technically they should not let foreigners stay at such a small hotel.

But you can sometimes manage it.

If you have a one night stand at some girl's house don't worry about it. You can just explain to the police you stayed out all night.

If you arrive on a holiday or there is a snowstorm or volcano erruption and you cannot get to the police station they will understand. I think there is like a 24-48 hour grace period.

Just remember that they could fine your host, which would cause a huge hassle.

Also the 50. 00 RMB fine can only be paid at certain places.

But once oyu have stayed a few times you are in the police system you just give them same name same passport no. They remember you.

So just register with them if it I smore than 24-48 hours, especially if you want to avoid trouble with your hosts.

Police are also usually happy to back date your registration a few days.

Just be polite with them try to avoid any discussions of morals or politics don't let on you are fucking Chinese girls left and right, they know but don't rub their noses in it. They may even try to joke with you just be careful sometimes they are playing with you for their own jokes, just be polite. There are som hot cops also I would love to fuck a Chinese cop. Maybe one day.

The registration paperwork itself sometimes is necessary for renting a car, doing other activities that your usual tourist does not engage in. Why would you register at all?

And how many times have you done this? I can just see how any happy any Chinese girl would be to go to a police station with you and register that she is being shagged by a foreigner. No stigma there.

You must be joking, LOL!

[AsianLover]

In response to the above question from Clandestine, I can add that I am an American who travels over to China quite frequently. I have a 35 yo freebie who I meet with regularly and we have talked about this. She is Chinese and has a Chinese BF. My freebie is not a working girl. I met her through work.

She says that Chinese men generally do not like to DATY. They view it as dirty. She knows that western men don't view DATY as dirty and enjoy giving it to women. At first, she has no objection in receiving it. The first time I did it to her, she really got off on it and said that she never realized how good it felt. Since then, she is always open to it and will DFK me right after.

I hope this helps. I would like to hear from others about this.

AL

[Mister Pink]

In response to the above question from Clandestine, I can add that I am an American who travels over to China quite frequently. I have a 35 yo freebie who I meet with regularly and we have talked about this. She is Chinese and has a Chinese BF. My freebie is not a working girl. I met her through work.

She says that Chinese men generally do not like to DATY. They view it as dirty. She knows that western men don't view DATY as dirty and enjoy giving it to women. At first, she has no objection in receiving it. The first time I did it to her, she really got off on it and said that she never realized how good it felt. Since then, she is always open to it and will DFK me right after.

I hope this helps. I would like to hear from others about this.

AL. Correction: western white man enjoy DATY. My dark skinned Brothers have always told me if God meant for man to dine at the Y he would have put a knife and fork there! Haha. The truth!

I have had many China lady refuse my finger but never my tounge! The filipina maids of HK go crazy when I dine. But now I am not so keen to dine on a WG, too much risk, I only dine on fresh chicken just in from the country side.

[Mister Pink]

[QUOTE=Bob Builder; 1116202]Why would you register at all?

When I am at sauna in China after midnight the manager takes my passport and records all the info. Sauna is required to register all guests after midnight with the local police. After I give up pp I am then free to stay and sleep till morning, no charge! I love China. I have visa now for 3 years, it is better to register than risk losing visa.

[Mister Pink]

I don't know where you get your info but it is wrong. Read the post below for a clear explanation of the rules.

I was never stopped but I am aware of many tourist being taken to the police station while they send a family member to the hotel to retrieve the passports.

Limited interactions with locals? I always carry Passport, I never risk carrying a copy. I interact with locals 24/7, Chinese I know are impressed with my willingness to be one of them and my acceptance and admiration of their culture.

I walk the streets all hours of day and night, I go for weeks never seeing a Westerner. I have never been stopped by police. I did once have my exit visa stamped so light it could not be read, that was very uncomfortable being questioned. Now I always watch immigration police to verify entrance and exit visa stamp is clear and can be read.

[Mister Pink]

All that said, BBS is still hit or miss in terms of service.

Just my POV.

OAHOAH speaks words of wisdom. Every night after 10 I set off in different direction with eyes and ears open. I rely on senses to locate open BBS. I never trust a tout or taxi man. Local friends and internet have old info and places open and close like the wind. I speak no Chinese and never have a problem. Most women I have at BBS are very young, attractive and aggressive. On lucky nights the Mama will bring a new recruit back to my hotel for training. Those nights I will never forget. Then some nights all ladies are over 30, a little older but make up for it with the skill of a Pro, I love China!

[Stegram]

. Correction: western white man enjoy DATY. My dark skinned Brothers have always told me if God meant for man to dine at the Y he would have put a knife and fork there! Haha. The truth!

I have had many China lady refuse my finger but never my tounge! The filipina maids of HK go crazy when I dine. But now I am not so keen to dine on a WG, too much risk, I only dine on fresh chicken just in from the country side. Reminds me. Back in 05 I was with a Mongolian Girl in BJ, and after I had finished and was ready to go to sleep, she points at her cooch and says,"I didn't come yet". Now that's a true GFE. I was then expecting her to tell me to go take out the trash before going to sleep.

[Jamie5063]

No cop has ever checked my passport yet. Maybe I'm just lucky, but a copy is good.I was robbed once and the company staff dragged me to a police station to report it. Copy was fine, L visa working, no questions. I also had a real nasty Shenzhen I'd inspector give me a hard time one day at a Shenzhen checkpoint after he had sent almost everyone else of the bus to the checking hall. My visa copy was an old one so did not show it at first but and even he did nothing except grunt a few times when I did show it to him and told him in English I had a new one. Most before that just used to smile and say Hi to you. Carrying your passport all the time means one day you will lose it, or it will be so worn out you will miss your flight as it looks fake.

On the overnight registration with friends I never used to, I did when I had to renew my visa in China but they did not care were I had been before that and have been in and out many times. I go once a year for a new form. This is China there is many rules which are broken, you may interrupt the card game or afternoon sleep at the LE if you do. Compared to why your reading this site think about it

[Crazy Jim Wood]

Why would you register at all?

And how many times have you done this? I can just see how any happy any Chinese girl would be to go to a police station with you and register that she is being shagged by a foreigner. No stigma there.

You must be joking, LOL! No joke, I often go to China and stay with several different women, and I don't want them to know I was with other women. Of course the woman normally does not want to come in the police station, but if there is any problem with your paperwork (such as one week missing, or you conveniently "forgot" to register) they will call her. Or they may just call her anyway to confirm. The police were ok, they just made me pay a 50. 00 rmb fine. But, when the girl I was with found out I had been there for a whole week before I went to see her (she thought I had come straight from the airport) caused a lot of trouble for me. I also needed the registration in order to rent a car. So, if you have a "complex" life in China, such as fucking multiple different freebies and staying at their homes or want to cruise arouind town in your rental car without having to deal with taxis, make sure you register properly, since it can cause a problem at the most inopportune time. You are much better off to register properly if you stay with someone for more than 24 hours. Remember, they could get a serious fine, their landlord might be fined, much worse than the one you get. Also, if you don't want to register for some reason, or it is a very small/cheap hotel and they can't register foreigners, let your girlfriend get the room (you are registered as being at her place so no problem). Some little hotels don't care either, or there may be no alternative in very rural areas, so if you are not with a local, just ask around eventually some place will let you stay, off the books no doubt, pocketing the money. I suppose you can always tell police you slept in your car. Little tricks of the trade to keep in mind when living on the cheap with freebies in China.

[Bob Builder]

No joke, I often go to China and stay with several different women, and I don't want them to know I was with other women. Of course the woman normally does not want to come in the police station, but if there is any problem with your paperwork (such as one week missing, or you conveniently "forgot" to register) they will call her. Or they may just call her anyway to confirm. The police were ok, they just made me pay a 50. 00 rmb fine. But, when the girl I was with found out I had been there for a whole week before I went to see her (she thought I had come straight from the airport) caused a lot of trouble for me. I also needed the registration in order to rent a car. So, if you have a "complex" life in China, such as fucking multiple different freebies and staying at their homes or want to cruise arouind town in your rental car without having to deal with taxis, make sure you register properly, since it can cause a problem at the most inopportune time. You are much better off to register properly if you stay with someone for more than 24 hours. Remember, they could get a serious fine, their landlord might be fined, much worse than the one you get. Also, if you don't want to register for some reason, or it is a very small/cheap hotel and they can't register foreigners, let your girlfriend get the room (you are registered as being at her place so no problem). Some little hotels don't care either, or there may be no alternative in very rural areas, so if you are not with a local, just ask around eventually some place will let you stay, off the books no doubt, pocketing the money. I suppose you can always tell police you slept in your car. Little tricks of the trade to keep in mind when living on the cheap with freebies in China.Wouldn't life be easier if you just asked a male buddy if you could use his place as a registered address.

My question is how likely are the police going to catch you? The old days of the LE breaking into apartments in the middle of the night to catch unregistered residents have been long over in Shenzhen although they still irregularly go through buildings getting residents to register.

[Gilby]

Well I don't like to just ask a question without contributing much. I was wondering what some the seasoned freebie hunters can suggest in comparing the various cities in China. I would think in the 2nd and 3rd tier cities it is harder to find freebies due to them not being so open-minded etc. On the other hand there is less laowai for them so may be spoilt for choice? In the main cities like BJ, Shanghai, Guangzhou etc is there any noticable difference? In Shanghai the women may be spoilt for choice. From my experience in BJ there is so many foreigners there is plenty of choices for them. So what would you guys think? Any noticeable difference between the North or South China as far as finding freebies go?

I know that for example Shanghai women are quite fussy and being foreign is no longe enough for many would be freebies as it may have been in the past.

[Crazy Jim Wood]

Wouldn't life be easier if you just asked a male buddy if you could use his place as a registered address.

My question is how likely are the police going to catch you? The old days of the LE breaking into apartments in the middle of the night to catch unregistered residents have been long over in Shenzhen although they still irregularly go through buildings getting residents to register. This is info from a few years back, but it is not a problem if you crash at someone's house one night, it's not a problem where police break into appartments looking for you, but it can sometimes cause annoyances and delays in your itinerary if you get caught and police bring you back to the station make you fill out paperwork lecture you make you go to the bank and pay a 50. 00 rmb fine then come back to the police station to show them the receipt etc. Or when you try to do some business that requires you to show your registration paperwork, and you don't have it, then you have to find the right police station go through the whole process etc. If you are on a tight schedule it could be a big headache. If you don't really have a schedule and don't mind loosing a day to deal with bs if you get caught, go ahead. But if I was staying with someone more than 48 hours I would just register. If you do it right, it only takes few minutes, and no problem. If you are in China for more than a few days or have to do any type of business with local authorities I would definitely just register like a good boy.

[Gualtier Malde]

Just got to love China women. Met my first Badoo girl in Beijing after someone somewhere on ISG mentioned the site. Badoo is not a sex site, its a casual dating site. As such, one might assume the seduction process is a bit more involved than for women you meet at Maggies, or on AdultFriendFinder.

With that in mind, I began an online chat with a seriously cute girl on Badoo. She agreed to meet at a coffee shop. As expected, this first meeting was very traditional, friendly, talking, no touching. At the end of the "date", as we walked back to the subway, we briefly held hands, casually, at my instigation, but that was it. And she was as cute as her picture.

We continued to chat online, at this friendly level, and agreed to a second coffee "date".

On my arrival, the first thing she said to me was this: "my best friend left town for a few months, and her apartment is empty and available for me. We can use it to be alone together if you like."

They never cease to amaze me here.

Since this is "Opinions and Advice", here's my advice. Badoo is a great site for residents. I don't think the traveler will have as much luck there. Don't proposition the women there, instead, start with a nice comment about their profile, their photo, or something else totally nonsexual. Don't ask them for sex. Just start a chat. Be a little patient, let their chat guide you. If they flirt, even subtly, you can press it a bit.

I now have three Badoo girls, two of which (including the one above) are now "sexually open", and a third is in the works. With a little finesse, this site works almost as well as the hardcore, fee based sex introduction sites. And it is free, though they do provide premium services. But they were not necessary for meeting these women.

GM

[Fuzimiao]

I now have three Badoo girls, two of which (including the one above) are now "sexually open", and a third is in the works. With a little finesse, this site works almost as well as the hardcore, fee based sex introduction sites. And it is free, though they do provide premium services. But they were not necessary for meeting these women.

GMThanks for the lowdown on Badoo, I joined unintentionally last year, searching for a long lost family member, turned out she was a member! They've been hounding me regularly to submit a photograph. I understood this to be a requirement, am I incorrect?

Fz

[Gualtier Malde]

Thanks for the lowdown on Badoo, I joined unintentionally last year, searching for a long lost family member, turned out she was a member! They've been hounding me regularly to submit a photograph. I understood this to be a requirement, am I incorrect?

FzYou are correct, that seems to be the basic ticket to ride.

GM

[Bob Builder]

This is info from a few years back, but it is not a problem if you crash at someone's house one night, it's not a problem where police break into appartments looking for you, but it can sometimes cause annoyances and delays in your itinerary if you get caught and police bring you back to the station make you fill out paperwork lecture you make you go to the bank and pay a 50. 00 rmb fine then come back to the police station to show them the receipt etc. Or when you try to do some business that requires you to show your registration paperwork, and you don't have it, then you have to find the right police station go through the whole process etc. If you are on a tight schedule it could be a big headache. If you don't really have a schedule and don't mind loosing a day to deal with bs if you get caught, go ahead. But if I was staying with someone more than 48 hours I would just register. If you do it right, it only takes few minutes, and no problem. If you are in China for more than a few days or have to do any type of business with local authorities I would definitely just register like a good boy.I was just thinking many women would be too embarrassed to go to register as opposed to the chances of you getting caught. Times have been changing and in Shenzhen if you are living in newer high rise apartments, the chances of the police doing midnight raids is almost zero. And when they do show up during the day, if you don't answer the door they just go away. I was visiting a friend one afternoon who lives in an old village low rise apartment with his girlfriend a few years back when the local security showed up registering all residents. One guy asked for my documents but not being to read English he mumbled, geve me back my docs and left. And the only reason they were doing that was during that week a suspected serial killer had killed a young WG in one of the apartments in the village.

[Gualtier Malde]

This is something that I have been thinking about a lot.

1. The first part of this question is for the Chinese guys. If you had to guess, what percentage of you are willing to do it? And for that matter, does it vary with where the Chinese guy comes from? I could guess that Mainland guys are not willing to do it (though I don't know why) and that maybe Chinese guys from the States / Hong Kong are more willing so to do.

2. I have not been able to understand what some of my women friends / working girls think when a guy does this for them. One woman used the word &35722; &24907; ("abnormal"/"weird") and others seem to enjoy it. Since my Chinese is not very good with emotional words, then I'd ask the guys (Chinese and otherwise) what impression they get of women's feeling toward that act. Do most think it abnormal? Or submissive? Or gentle? Or loving?

3. I have heard more than one story on cunnilictus. I remember teaching some guys the word "cunnilingus" (&33300; &38512. In English and they were like "Oh, it is so dirty." (These were two young Chinese men.) For the Chinese men who won't offer this service, what is the reason that you aren't willing to do it?

4. For those of you that do offer that service, do you get the impression that a lot of women feel upset / underwhelmed when you do it but pretend to like it for your benefit? Or have they never had it and don't quite know what to think? Or do some actively seek it out?

I'm asking these questions out of general curiousity (1) and to guess what it might be like if I ever got around to hiring two (unshaved) working girls for role play to Force Me To Give Them Oral Pleasure (2). This is an idea that I got from watching a show on CCTV where there was a woman who hired some thug to kidnap a guy and then she tied him up and tried to force her attentions on him. He acted like he was afraid and felt violated (yeah, right). I am not sure if most Mainland girls would think that they were "forcing" me to do something dirty and feel shy / ashamed. Or if they would have sense enough to fall into the role play and act like "You like this, don't you, you dirty little boy!" (I would). 1. I'm not Chinese, but it is my impression from many women here that Chinese men just don't do it. I would say it is at best "most" don't do it. Can't hang a percentage on that though.

2. I think most WG's just tolerate it, as they do everything else their customer does to them. I have had some that do really get into it, and have asked me to meet with them again for more. But I think like WGs everywhere, they are doing it for the money first. On the other hand, the freebies, from my experience, are mostly a bit surprised, maybe a bit shy, some say it tickles and have a bit of a time getting into it, but for the most part once they've been though a session they want it, and want it a LOT. I think most first timers think it is at least kinky, maybe weird, but after that, they just WANT it.

3. Not for me to answer. I think its cultural. I would suspect if you are trying to get inside their head, think how you would feel if asked to suck a cock. I presume you'd be disgusted at the thought (unless you are a switch hitter. Not that there's anything wrong with that.). I think that's the level of disgust a local Chinese guy experiences with the thought of licking pussy. Who am I to judge? More opportunity for me. .

4. I have had women (freebies) ask me outright if I will lick their pussy if we go to bed. They definitely actively seek it from westerners. In my experience, its one reason sexually liberated Chinese women seek western men.

GM

[Meiguoguizi]

1. I'm not Chinese, but it is my impression from many women here that Chinese men just don't do it. I would say it is at best "most" don't do it. Can't hang a percentage on that though.

GMThe short answer to any question about sexual behavior in China is: NOBODY knows.

It is literally illegal to 'survey' individuals about a variety of social activities, including sexual.

Additionally, our working girl confidants and a 'lao wai's' freebee are not an indication of what happens in the general population. They are outliers.

One word of advise for the eager diver, do not accept initial minor protestations as a true indication of her willingness to participate. The Chinese female's cultural response to any sexual request is routinely: "Lao Gong, bu yao! Ni hao huai!"

This is just part of the dance. Mumble: "Zhi yao qinqin waimiande" (I only want to kiss the outside).

Persist a few moments and my experience is that 80% will end up grabbing your hair and mounting your empty western dome.

[Gualtier Malde]

One word of advise for the eager diver, do not accept initial minor protestations as a true indication of her willingness to participate. The Chinese female's cultural response to any sexual request is routinely: "Lao Gong, bu yao! Ni hao huai!"

This is just part of the dance. Mumble: "Zhi yao qinqin waimiande" (I only want to kiss the outside).

Persist a few moments and my experience is that 80% will end up grabbing your hair and mounting your empty western dome. Brilliant!

GM

[Pushkin13]

In my small experience...

Because I LOVE dining at the "Y", and often see it as equal main course, I almost always take my time (if lots of time is available). And never directly start dining.

Slowly, slowly...

Kisses and nibbles from head to toe, carefully avoiding her "little sister". A few times up and down, each time drawing closer to the little sister, but not giving any indication that that is a goal.

Carefully, I note the reaction. At this point, I often spread her knees, just to nibble the inside of the knees and surrounding skin. Everytime there is a knee spread, she will feel a "rush", because of the physiology and psychology involved. Then, usually ... a few more passes, with legs spread, and she is mine. Success: more than 80%.

Just my experience.

P13.