China Women - Opinions and Advice

[Gualtier Malde]

In my small experience.

Because I LOVE dining at the "Y", and often see it as equal main course, I almost always take my time (if lots of time is available). And never directly start dining.

Slowly, slowly.

Kisses and nibbles from head to toe, carefully avoiding her "little sister". A few times up and down, each time drawing closer to the little sister, but not giving any indication that that is a goal.

Carefully, I note the reaction. At this point, I often spread her knees, just to nibble the inside of the knees and surrounding skin. Everytime there is a knee spread, she will feel a "rush", because of the physiology and psychology involved. Then, usually. A few more passes, with legs spread, and she is mine. Success: more than 80.

Just my experience.

P13. It's good advice. I will say I got a bit of a surprise recently with one very open freebie friend. After an enjoyable time dining, and watching / feeling her nearly self-levitate as she responded, I asked her about her feelings. (This is the one who I mentioned previously, who came right out and asked me before our first meeting if I would lick her pussy when we met.)

She said she loved oral, but had stronger orgasms from being f*cked. We explored this further, because she also is open to anal sex. When I asked, she said she had her strongest orgasms of all from anal sex. However, the conditions have to be just right for her to enjoy the anal sex at all. Right guy, right preparation, right mood. We happen to hit all three together.

I found this to be surprising, because she is most visibly affected by the oral (she glows almost beet red, vibrates like a violin, and arches her back, shoving her pussy into my face to the point that as I said, it seems as if she is levitating). She said the oral is the most intense, but that's not necessarily the best full body orgasm for her.

This is a woman who has a very strong g-spot response, but as clits go, has a very tiny one. So I'm guessing most of her sensitivity is more inside than out.

Every girl is different, but this one taught me not to completely correlate visible response with the invisible pleasure she is receiving. I give her a little less oral now, and a lot more pumping and g-spot focus. I pay attention now when, while dining, she calls out "I need your cock!"

GM

[Able Baker]

In my small experience.

Because I LOVE dining at the "Y", and often see it as equal main course, I almost always take my time (if lots of time is available). And never directly start dining.

Slowly, slowly.

Kisses and nibbles from head to toe, carefully avoiding her "little sister". A few times up and down, each time drawing closer to the little sister, but not giving any indication that that is a goal.

Carefully, I note the reaction. At this point, I often spread her knees, just to nibble the inside of the knees and surrounding skin. Everytime there is a knee spread, she will feel a "rush", because of the physiology and psychology involved. Then, usually. A few more passes, with legs spread, and she is mine. Success: more than 80.

Just my experience.

P13. I could not agree more: it's a matter of seduction. Even if she would let you f*ck her without any hesitation, getting her to relax her guard and enjoy a "forbiden pleasure" such as this can be a thrill in and of itself, plus she will welcome you back another day.

[Jamie5063]

The first time this happened I just put it down to my dirty mind but its now occurred two times on crowed buses to me. Given the fact I try to avoid the seats facing the centre I wonder if anyone else had had this happen too them.

First time the woman was not that good looking but I could feel her pubes and private parts quite firmly against the top of my knee. Then the other night this 10 gets on the bus wearing a skirt so short she had to keep pulling it down long legs slim the lot. Next thing I know she has her pussy pressed against my knee and her handbag sitting on top of my knee for about 30 mins, The seat next to me became empty and there was plenty of space, but she just stood in the same spot still with the firm pressure until someone else took the seat. Unfortunately she was on the phone the whole time so did not get the chance to talk with her or even discover if she knew English. I did get the nice smile treatment though. They were not moving much or groaning in passion but if a guy did that we would be locked up or suffer pain due to sudden upward movement. I do not think it would be possible to do it by accident. Of course being a nice guy I just acted if I did not notice and was quite happy for her to help herself. Shame it was so late I was temped to get of at the same stop. True story. This is China I'm stuck here cannot leave.

[Pushkin13]

The first time this happened I just put it down to my dirty mind but its now occurred two times on crowed buses to me. Given the fact I try to avoid the seats facing the centre I wonder if anyone else had had this happen too them.

First time the woman was not that good looking but I could feel her pubes and private parts quite firmly against the top of my knee. Then the other night this 10 gets on the bus wearing a skirt so short she had to keep pulling it down long legs slim the lot. Next thing I know she has her pussy pressed against my knee and her handbag sitting on top of my knee for about 30 mins, The seat next to me became empty and there was plenty of space, but she just stood in the same spot still with the firm pressure until someone else took the seat. Unfortunately she was on the phone the whole time so did not get the chance to talk with her or even discover if she knew English. I did get the nice smile treatment though. They were not moving much or groaning in passion but if a guy did that we would be locked up or suffer pain due to sudden upward movement. I do not think it would be possible to do it by accident. Of course being a nice guy I just acted if I did not notice and was quite happy for her to help herself. Shame it was so late I was temped to get of at the same stop. True story. This is China I'm stuck here cannot leave. Always travel with a few "business cards" with your name, telephone number, and maybe some information about "private English lessons" blah blah blah.

Next time you feel pubes (female, of course) pressed against your knee, smile, and give her your "card".

Hope it works.

P13.

[Jamie5063]

Always travel with a few "business cards" with your name, telephone number, and maybe some information about "private English lessons" blah blah blah.

Next time you feel pubes (female, of course) pressed against your knee, smile, and give her your "card".

Hope it works.

P13. True I was in the lucky seat one time when a 10 got on the bus wondering how I could chat her up knowing I got off at the next stop in around 90 seconds. So I smile and give her my seat and she sits down hands me her card. God can be a dirty sod some days. She is 28 and I'm still seeing and bonking her a year later with no complications. Few more women like that there would not be any traffic jams in China. I like taking the bus.

[Middleway]

Can anyone explain how KTV girls become that rather than say, at the BBS? Is a KTV-er essentially different from a BBS-er? By social class or education? Or something else?

[Middleway]

Can anyone explain how KTV girls become that rather than say, at the BBS? Is a KTV-er essentially different from a BBS-er? By social class or education? Or something else?If I am not mistaken, KTV girls must pay some sizeable fees and so they become like independent contractors. That requires some resources and if the KTV is attached to an upscale hotel, it could be much more. But they get more money for their services, and they are likely to service richer men in upscale places. One of these men might even take them away from it all. Seems the KTV girl might be more ambitious than the BBS one and has more resources. Does not always apply though because some WGs prefer not working at KTVs. But overall it would seem KTV-ers might have more resourcefulness then BBS-ers, which comes from their background, class, education, or both. Hmm, would this come down to urban-rural differences found among the WGs at KTVs and BBSs respectively? There's a good way to find out.

[Pushkin13]

Can anyone explain how KTV girls become that rather than say, at the BBS? Is a KTV-er essentially different from a BBS-er? By social class or education? Or something else?KTV gals, in general are more beautiful (perceived to be more beautiful) , and have a more desirable body shape than BBS gals.

Of course, there are exceptions, depending on (I) independence of the gal involved (move towards BBS) , (ii) determination of the girl to try to "strike it rich" (move towards KTV) , (iii) overall KTV numbers (move towards BBS) , (iv) local working conditions, and knowledge of how to move into the trade.

Any more?

P13

[Middleway]

KTV gals, in general are more beautiful (perceived to be more beautiful) , and have a more desirable body shape than BBS gals.

Of course, there are exceptions, depending on (I) independence of the gal involved (move towards BBS) , (ii) determination of the girl to try to "strike it rich" (move towards KTV) , (iii) overall KTV numbers (move towards BBS) , (iv) local working conditions, and knowledge of how to move into the trade.

Any more?

P13Thanks P13 for the intel. Like you, I am biased in favor of the KTV about looks, but some here at ISG have said not much difference. It seems then the image each of us has of the KTV (and BBS) may differ. Afterall, KTVs range widely. If my understanding is correct about KTVs etc, the WGs there have more pressure about conditions and production, and similar to the world of models, they must really care about their appearance as well as age. So eventually they get farmed out to other levels (BBS, etc.)? Yet, some humorous ISG accounts tell about some fellow bros having to entertain KTV girls of just 2 or 3 on the 10-scale. You hit the beauty mark but I think there is also a social difference between the WGs at the KTV and the BBS. And probably I won't get much response to this because "beauty" is sexier and the sociology of it may not appeal to people. But anyway it fascinates the hell of me and I appreciate your input on it. Thank you.

[SE Asia Joe]

Thanks P13 for the intel. Like you, I am biased in favor of the KTV about looks, but some here at ISG have said not much difference. It seems then the image each of us has of the KTV (and BBS) may differ. Afterall, KTVs range widely. If my understanding is correct about KTVs etc, the WGs there have more pressure about conditions and production, and similar to the world of models, they must really care about their appearance as well as age. So eventually they get farmed out to other levels (BBS, etc.)? Yet, some humorous ISG accounts tell about some fellow bros having to entertain KTV girls of just 2 or 3 on the 10-scale. You hit the beauty mark but I think there is also a social difference between the WGs at the KTV and the BBS. And probably I won't get much response to this because "beauty" is sexier and the sociology of it may not appeal to people. But anyway it fascinates the hell of me and I appreciate your input on it. Thank you.Actually, IMHO, its not what you're thinking.

Even KTV's have all sorts of standards, pricing and quality of gals. Let's take the situation in Chang Ping as it IS basically Monger Central for Southern China if not for the whole of China; here KTV gals ranges from 1-3-6 at the low end. 2-5-8 to 3-6-9 as the middle / majority, to 5-15-20 etc and even 10-50-100 (They're named Barbies! LOL). Obviously such a price disparity also results in a wide range of gals available in each category. Now you ask why would any gal want to work at any other place than a KTV? Why do they work at BBS's, saunas, or even as a KDJ?

Well, it of course mostly depends on the gal's own preference and tolerances. OK, generalization:

Saunas are highest mileage and must use their bodies full time, doing some of the most degrading. And tiring. Acts just about all day long. But they make the most money.

BBS's gals can rack up the customers too, but a lot of them will not work at KTV's because they just cannot handle the drinking and being nicey nicey all night long. And because they do have multiple clients a day, some of these BBS gals can make as much money there as at a KTV. Especially if they're not that pretty / pales in comparison to the other gals if working at a KTV. And may end up NOT getting any customers many a night.

KTV gals - Yes, to work at a KTV, the gal does need to have some money to put down as a security deposit, uniform fees etc. So before they become KTV gals, a lot of them need to work at a BBS first to make the initial money. Then they run the risk of Not being picked by clients. And if this happens too many nights in a row, then they've got no choice but to go back to the BBS. And then there is the fact that they need to be able to drink and put aside their pride etc to really entertain the customer; enough so as that he will take her out. For sitting fees alone ain't going to cover her expenses.

Actually the gals at the top of the food chain are the KDJ's. They've got the WHOLE KTV room to source from, pick and chose which ever one she wants to target. And at the end of the evening still decide whether she will go out with a client or not, or just string him along a bit more with just giving her contacts etc to play him out longer. And hopefully larger, longer term pay-out.

Anyway, just giving you some of my perspectives BBS vs KTV VS Sauna Vs. KDJ etc. Hope of some use to you.

SEAJ

[Sammon]

Actually, IMHO, its not what you're thinking.

Even KTV's have all sorts of standards, pricing and quality of gals. Let's take the situation in Chang Ping as it IS basically Monger Central for Southern China if not for the whole of China; here KTV gals ranges from 1-3-6 at the low end. 2-5-8 to 3-6-9 as the middle / majority, to 5-15-20 etc and even 10-50-100 (They're named Barbies! LOL). Obviously such a price disparity also results in a wide range of gals available in each category. Now you ask why would any gal want to work at any other place than a KTV? Why do they work at BBS's, saunas, or even as a KDJ?

Well, it of course mostly depends on the gal's own preference and tolerances. OK, generalization:

Saunas are highest mileage and must use their bodies full time, doing some of the most degrading. And tiring. Acts just about all day long. But they make the most money.

BBS's gals can rack up the customers too, but a lot of them will not work at KTV's because they just cannot handle the drinking and being nicey nicey all night long. And because they do have multiple clients a day, some of these BBS gals can make as much money there as at a KTV. Especially if they're not that pretty / pales in comparison to the other gals if working at a KTV. And may end up NOT getting any customers many a night.

KTV gals. Yes, to work at a KTV, the gal does need to have some money to put down as a security deposit, uniform fees etc. So before they become KTV gals, a lot of them need to work at a BBS first to make the initial money. Then they run the risk of Not being picked by clients. And if this happens too many nights in a row, then they've got no choice but to go back to the BBS. And then there is the fact that they need to be able to drink and put aside their pride etc to really entertain the customer; enough so as that he will take her out. For sitting fees alone ain't going to cover her expenses.

Actually the gals at the top of the food chain are the KDJ's. They've got the WHOLE KTV room to source from, pick and chose which ever one she wants to target. And at the end of the evening still decide whether she will go out with a client or not, or just string him along a bit more with just giving her contacts etc to play him out longer. And hopefully larger, longer term pay-out.

Anyway, just giving you some of my perspectives BBS vs KTV VS Sauna Vs. KDJ etc. Hope of some use to you.

SEAJTo add to this,

1. Many a saunas who offer extras are closed down by the authorities. Those who are still doing it are very carefull.

They will offer to their regular customers.

Girls make more money by tips only. Their salary is very low. Almost all are provided rooms upstairs and basic food. Nowadays the girls mostly offer HJ only.

If you speak Chinese you can ask her for her number and call her and arrange a session at your place. Most of these girls are lonely and jump at a chance to have a BF although most of these Chinese country girls are looked at in a different way by the society if they are with foreigners.

This is a step up from BBS girls. They need some training in massage etc.

2. BBS girls who cut your hair, manicures, pedicures and all the way up to full sex work very hard. Rooma are basic upstairs. They service many clients a day if they are pretty. Otherwise they can be had for a lower price. It is a wham, boom, thank you ma'm type of deal for one shot only. If you are done in one minute that is it. Very rarely the girls will cuddle with you after you are done. These girls make money according to how many they service and by tips. Basic salary is very low.

This is the first job the willing girls get who come from the provinces. Does not really need any sort of training.

3. KTV girls are way up there in terms of looks and singing ability and being a good smiling and drinking company.

There are two kinds of girls. One is resident girls who are on salary and freelancers who come by every night for a line up. Freelancers are paid only if they are picked.

Whoever gets picked make good money. Mainly because lots of business clients are taken to KTV by their local business partners. Many a Chinese people go to KTV just for drinking and singing and not interested in taking a girl home. These people leave large tips to the girls apart from regular charges.

KTV girls tend to be young and pretty with singing skills.

4. Streetwalkers are the ones working for themselves. I have not heard of any streetwalkers having pimps in China unlike in other western countries. These are the who have made money working in other establishments either got fired or got dejected and want to try to make money themselves.

Many of these girls have regular daytime jobs and want to make extra money. They are not drug crazed unlike in western countries. They usually go with Chinese men and they charge low amount. Those who go with foreigners tend to be more hard core. There are few ladyboys but hard to detect on the appearance. So beware!

Streetwalkers also go to KTV line up as I found out. In the begining I met these two pretty girls and I took them to my room in the evening. After both service me I asked them to stay the whole night. At about 9 PM they told me they have a contract with a KTV to show up there and they will be back by 11 PM if they are not picked. It turned out that they are not picked and stayed with me whole night.

5. Mamasan or papasan girls on the street. These are the ones who want to make extra money on the side. They give their phone numbers to mamasan and the mamasan will call as many girls as she can get hold of so that you make your pick. The girls vary from really pretty to really ugly. Most have other daytime jobs. Service is cheap and once you have them you can get their phone number and call them directly for future meetings. Some I have found out are really friendly and give good service.

[Firecap]

Having never been to China I have read this whole section and must say I feel prepared for my upcoming 11 day 3 cirt China tour! Thank all of you for the information you provided here for us NOOB's! The abbreviations alone have my head spinning!

[What Just Happen]

Question on where to find internet freebies.

I've had plenty of luck meeting and connecting with Chinese women on Badoo and DateInAsia, but I'm just wondering what other sites people are using to meet them. Aside from these and the obvious (thebeijinger, craigslist, adultfriendfinder, asiafriendfinder) , is there anywhere I should be looking?

[Praj4]

I had excellent experience with many Chinese women in X'ian, Wuhan, Macau.

Many of them were young, tall good featured and strong bodied.

Most of them participated with openness, enjoyed a long lasting sexexercise.

Openly gave a good performance certificate if U-turned out be a good clean man with lasting strength and size.

They could be triggered into good GFE by neck petting soft kissing, suckling etc.

\Except anal they were coperative for any position.

Still one thing perturbs me aren't they clean shaved? All port a Bush there. That's let down

[Azertiefou]

Hello, do you know this site?

Hongkongvipmodels.

Thank you answer me

[Tiger 888]

Hello, do you know this site?

Hongkongvipmodels.

Thank you answer meWho needs to go all the way to Hong Kong to pay those insane prices?

[SahinAga]

Question on where to find internet freebies.

I've had plenty of luck meeting and connecting with Chinese women on Badoo and DateInAsia, but I'm just wondering what other sites people are using to meet them. Aside from these and the obvious (thebeijinger, craigslist, adultfriendfinder, asiafriendfinder) , is there anywhere I should be looking? I had some luck with Chinese Love Links also for Shanghai smartshanghai is good

[Fuzimiao]

I had some luck with Chinese Love Links also for Shanghai smartshanghai is goodI tried CLL, but was immediately swamped with really nice ladies, all fluent in English, all were mothers of daughters, most were teachers, divorced because of failure to produce a son. Several told me that, as teachers, they were state employees, and flouting the one child policy would have dire consequences.

(Swamped = more than 50 hits a day.)

The place to meet a really nice lady with long term intentions. I'm afraid I found it very depressing and closed my account after three days.

[SecretAgentMan00]

I tried CLL, but was immediately swamped with really nice ladies, all fluent in English, all were mothers of daughters, most were teachers, divorced because of failure to produce a son. Several told me that, as teachers, they were state employees, and flouting the one child policy would have dire consequences.

(Swamped = more than 50 hits a day.)

The place to meet a really nice lady with long term intentions. I'm afraid I found it very depressing and closed my account after three days.Why do you consider it depressing when you get 50 hits a day when you tried CLL? That sounds pretty cool. I think I'll give it a shot.

[Rastalo]

Why do you consider it depressing when you get 50 hits a day when you tried CLL? That sounds pretty cool. I think I'll give it a shot.I *think* he meant 50+ women saw his profile. In CLL you have this window that shows who has read your profile. It doesn't mean they are interested in you. If they're interested they'll drop you a line or give you an interest.

For all it's worth, I've toying around with CLL (young, Asian, profile in English) and I've noticed that for the first few days there're like 5-10 people that see your profile, but after one week, the number drops because most of the people that could have been interested in you have already seen your profile.

I'd imagine that my age would have been an issue (he's too young and probably only looking to fool around, not serious).

[Fuzimiao]

I *think* he meant 50+ women saw his profile. In CLL you have this window that shows who has read your profile. It doesn't mean they are interested in you. If they're interested they'll drop you a line or give you an interest.

For all it's worth, I've toying around with CLL (young, Asian, profile in English) and I've noticed that for the first few days there're like 5-10 people that see your profile, but after one week, the number drops because most of the people that could have been interested in you have already seen your profile.

I'd imagine that my age would have been an issue (he's too young and probably only looking to fool around, not serious). I'm afraid I'm older than most on this board, perhaps my success was down to seeking contact in all China, with an extremely wide age range. I did however stay in contact with a really nice English teacher in Hainan, expect to meet up with her in the Summer holidays!

Fz

[Fast Buck Artist]

Browsing the world factbook, I was shocked to discover China has the world worst ratio of women to men and it gets much worse in the coming years.

Men to women ratio in China.

For Adults: 1.06

For Teens: 1.17

At Birth: 1.19

If these numbers are to be believed, this is disturbing. There should be over 100 million "extra" men in the country right now with that number scheduled to double in the near future.

Does that make China a horrible destination to find a girl that will only get worse in the coming years? What do you see on the ground?

[Lost In Shanghai]

There should be over 100 million "extra" men in the country right now with that number scheduled to double in the near future.

Does that make China a horrible destination to find a girl that will only get worse in the coming years? What do you see on the ground? What I see on the ground: People really want to have sons to carry on the family name. There is a one-child policy. There is no moral imperative against abortion. Obviously, sex selection is going on which accounts for the data.

I also see many, many Chinese women with western boyfriends / husbands. There is no problem for a westerner to pick up a Chinese girl. Chinese women are upwardly mobile. The extra 100 million men don't matter to them; they just look for the wealthy ones. As a westerner, you are likely very wealthy compared to most Chinese men. Lots of Chinese men may not be able to find a girl, but that is not your problem.

Curiously, I almost never see a Chinese man with a western girlfriend. There are lots of single expat women here.

[Csun213]

I also see many, many Chinese women with western boyfriends / husbands. There is no problem for a westerner to pick up a Chinese girl. Chinese women are upwardly mobile. The extra 100 million men don't matter to them; they just look for the wealthy ones. As a westerner, you are likely very wealthy compared to most Chinese men. Lots of Chinese men may not be able to find a girl, but that is not your problem.

Curiously, I almost never see a Chinese man with a western girlfriend. There are lots of single expat women here. I agree. It doesn't matter what the ratio of men to women. If you don't have any money, a good education or a good job, you are just not going to find a nice looking women.

Just like the rest of the men here on the board, it doesn't matter if you go to a KTV with 10, 000 women, if there are no good looking women there, you just won't go back there again.

[Loveasiangirls]

I agree. It doesn't matter what the ratio of men to women. If you don't have any money, a good education or a good job, you are just not going to find a nice looking women.

Just like the rest of the men here on the board, it doesn't matter if you go to a KTV with 10, 000 women, if there are no good looking women there, you just won't go back there again. Actually there are a lot of rich Chinese guys (not in percentage terms but in absolute numbers). The typical expat cannot compete with the wealthy Chinese man. But there are still a lot of Chinese women available for westerners but generally not the top of the line girls.

[Csun213]

Actually there are a lot of rich Chinese guys (not in percentage terms but in absolute numbers). The typical expat cannot compete with the wealthy Chinese man. But there are still a lot of Chinese women available for westerners but generally not the top of the line girls.My point is that if you have a good education, money and treat the girls well, you will never have any problem finding a nice girl regardless of the ratio of Men to Women. There can be 1 million men to 1 woman but if you are on top, the woman will pick you over the rest.

I do agree with you that if everything being equal, the Chinese men will USUALLY win over the foreigners.

[Meiguoguizi]

A decade ago in Beijing I asked a good Chinese male friend, who is now a director at CCTV: "What do Chinese men think when they see so many Western men with Chinese girlfriends and wives in Beijing?"

He smiled and answered: "It's not a problem, you guys always pick ugly girls."

Western men do not have the same standards of beauty, tall thin and pale are not particularly appealing to our eye.

In Chinatown in New York, I recognize the reciprocal phenomena. Chinese men with extraordinarily ugly western women.

So the next time you cruise downtown with your local girl, the stares you get may not be jealously but sympathy.

[Loveasiangirls]

A decade ago in Beijing I asked a good Chinese male friend, who is now a director at CCTV: "What do Chinese men think when they see so many Western men with Chinese girlfriends and wives in Beijing?"

He smiled and answered: "It's not a problem, you guys always pick ugly girls."

Western men do not have the same standards of beauty, tall thin and pale are not particularly appealing to our eye.

In Chinatown in New York, I recognize the reciprocal phenomena. Chinese men with extraordinarily ugly western women.

So the next time you cruise downtown with your local girl, the stares you get may not be jealously but sympathy. Yes, actually I remember the comment about a Chinese girl who thought she was average looking. Then she got a foreign BF, she said "then I must really be ugly!"

I have often hear this comment about westerners having ugly girlfriends to which my response to my Chinese friends is, either:

1. She is not his GF;

2. She may have 'special talents"

3. She is 30 years younger so it doesn't matter, or.

4. Maybe white guys are not so shallow and she has a great personality (yeah, right!)

[Clandestine782]

browsing the world factbook, i was shocked to discover china has the world worst ratio of women to men and it gets much worse in the coming years.

men to women ratio in china.

for adults: 1. 06.

for teens: 1. 17.

at birth: 1. 19.

if these numbers are to be believed, this is disturbing. there should be over 100 million "extra" men in the country right now with that number scheduled to double in the near future.

does that make china a horrible destination to find a girl that will only get worse in the coming years? what do you see on the ground? brother, you said it about the sex imbalance. a year or two ago, there was a big blow up on this board because i happened to mention that to someone- who then took it as a personal insult.

here is an article that talks about just that. and a new book.

the war against girls

since the late 1970s. 163 million female babies have been aborted by parents seeking sons.

by jonathan v. last.

mara hvistendahl is worried about girls. not in any political, moral or cultural sense but as an existential matter. she is right to be. in china, india and numerous other countries (both developing and developed) , there are many more men than women, the result of systematic campaigns against baby girls. in "unnatural selection," ms. hvistendahl reports on this gender imbalance: what it is, how it came to be and what it means for the future.

in nature. 105 boys are born for every 100 girls. this ratio is biologically ironclad. between 104 and 106 is the normal range, and that's as far as the natural window goes. any other number is the result of unnatural events.

yet today in india there are 112 boys born for every 100 girls. in china, the number is 121—though plenty of chinese towns are over the 150 mark. china's and india's populations are mammoth enough that their outlying sex ratios have skewed the global average to a biologically impossible 107. but the imbalance is not only in asia. azerbaijan stands at 115, georgia at 118 and armenia at 120.

what is causing the skewed ratio: abortion. if the male number in the sex ratio is above 106, it means that couples are having abortions when they find out the mother is carrying a girl. by ms. hvistendahl's counting, there have been so many sex-selective abortions in the past three decades that 163 million girls, who by biological averages should have been born, are missing from the world. moral horror aside, this is likely to be of very large consequence.

ma liuming / sotheby's.

'no. 23' (2005-06) , a painting by ma liuming.

in the mid-1970s, amniocentesis, which reveals the sex of a baby in utero, became available in developing countries. originally meant to test for fetal abnormalities, by the 1980s it was known as the "sex test" in india and other places where parents put a premium on sons. when amnio was replaced by the cheaper and less invasive ultrasound, it meant that most couples who wanted a baby boy could know ahead of time if they were going to have one and, if they were not, do something about it."better 500 rupees now than 5, 000 later," reads one ad put out by an indian clinic, a reference to the price of a sex test versus the cost of a dowry.

but oddly enough, ms. hvistendahl notes, it is usually a country's rich, not its poor, who lead the way in choosing against girls."sex selection typically starts with the urban, well-educated stratum of society," she writes."elites are the first to gain access to a new technology, whether mri scanners, smart phones—or ultrasound machines." the behavior of elites then filters down until it becomes part of the broader culture. even more unexpectedly, the decision to abort baby girls is usually made by women—either by the mother or, sometimes, the mother-in-law.

if you peer hard enough at the data, you can actually see parents demanding boys. take south korea. in 1989, the sex ratio for first births there was 104 boys for every 100 girls—perfectly normal. but couples who had a girl became increasingly desperate to acquire a boy. for second births, the male number climbed to 113; for third, to 185. among fourth-born children, it was a mind-boggling 209. even more alarming is that people maintain their cultural assumptions even in the diaspora; research shows a similar birth-preference pattern among couples of chinese, indian and korean descent right here in america.


unnatural selection: choosing boys over girls and the consequences of a world full of men.

by mara hvistendahl

publicaffairs. 314 pages, $26. 99.

ms. hvistendahl argues that such imbalances are portents of very bad things to come."historically, societies in which men substantially outnumber women are not nice places to live," she writes."often they are unstable. sometimes they are violent." as examples she notes that high sex ratios were at play as far back as the fourth century b. c. in athens—a particularly bloody time in greek history—and during china's taiping rebellion in the mid-19th century. (both eras featured widespread female infanticide.) she also notes that the dearth of women along the frontier in the american west probably had a lot to do with its being wild. in 1870, for instance, the sex ratio west of the mississippi was 125 to 100. in california it was 166 to 100. in nevada it was 320. in western kansas, it was 768.

there is indeed compelling evidence of a link between sex ratios and violence. high sex ratios mean that a society is going to have "surplus men"—that is, men with no hope of marrying because there are not enough women. such men accumulate in the lower classes, where risks of violence are already elevated. and unmarried men with limited incomes tend to make trouble. in chinese provinces where the sex ratio has spiked, a crime wave has followed. today in india, the best predictor of violence and crime for any given area is not income but sex ratio.

a high level of male births has other, far-reaching, effects. it becomes harder to secure a bride, and men can find themselves buying or bidding for them. this, ms. hvistendahl notes, contributes to china's astronomical household savings rate; parents know they must save up in order to secure brides for their sons. (an ironic reflection of the indian ad campaigns suggesting parents save money by aborting girls.) this savings rate, in turn, drives the chinese demand for usa treasury bills.

and to beat the "marriage squeeze" caused by skewed sex ratios, men in wealthier imbalanced countries poach women from poorer ones. ms. hvistendahl reports from vietnam, where the mail-order-bride business is booming thanks to the demand for women in china. prostitution booms, too—and not the sex-positive kind that western feminists are so fond of.

the economist gary becker has noted that when women become scarce, their value increases, and he sees this as a positive development. but as ms. hvistendahl demonstrates,"this assessment is true only in the crudest sense." a 17-year-old girl in a developing country is in no position to capture her own value. instead, a young woman may well become chattel, providing income either for their families or for pimps. as columbia economics professor lena edlund observes: "the greatest danger associated with prenatal sex determination is the propagation of a female underclass," that a small but still significant group of the world's women will end up being stolen or sold from their homes and forced into prostitution or marriage.

all of this may sound dry, but ms. hvistendahl is a first-rate reporter and has filled "unnatural selection" with gripping details. she has interviewed demographers and doctors from paris to mumbai. she spends a devastating chapter talking with paul ehrlich, the man who mainstreamed overpopulation hysteria in 1968 with "the population bomb"—and who still seems to think that getting rid of girls is a capital idea (in part because it will keep families from having more and more children until they get a boy). in another chapter she speaks with geert jan olsder, an obscure dutch mathematician who, by an accident of history, contributed to the formation of china's "one child" policy when he met a chinese scientist in 1975. later she visits the nanjing headquarters of the "patriot club," an organization of chinese surplus men who plot war games and play at mock combat.

ms. hvistendahl also dredges up plenty of unpleasant documents from western actors like the ford foundation, the united nations and planned parenthood, showing how they pushed sex-selective abortion as a means of controlling population growth. in 1976, for instance, the medical director of the international planned parenthood federation, malcom potts, wrote that, when it came to developing nations, abortion was even better than birth control: "early abortion is safe, effective, cheap and potentially the easiest method to administer."

the following year another planned parenthood official celebrated china's coercive methods of family planning, noting that "persuasion and motivation [are] very effective in a society in which social sanctions can be applied against those who fail to cooperate in the construction of the socialist state." as early as 1969, the population council's sheldon segal was publicly proclaiming the benefits of sex-selective abortion as a means of combating the "population bomb" in the east. overall ms. hvistendahl paints a detailed picture of western malthusians pushing a set of terrible policy prescriptions in an effort to road-test solutions to a problem that never actually manifested itself.

there is so much to recommend in "unnatural selection" that it's sad to report that ms. hvistendahl often displays an unbecoming political provincialism. she begins the book with an approving quote about gender equality from mao zedong and carries right along from there. her desire to fault the west is so ingrained that she criticizes the british empire's efforts to stamp out the practice of killing newborn girls in india because "they did so paternalistically, as tyrannical fathers." she says that the reason surplus men in the american west didn't take native american women as brides was that "their particular anglo-saxon breed of racism precluded intermixing." (through most of human history distinct racial and ethnic groups have only reluctantly intermarried; that she attributes this reluctance to a specific breed of "racism" says less about the american past than about her own biases.) when she writes that a certain idea dates "all the way back to the west's predominant creation myth," she means the bible.

ms. hvistendahl is particularly worried that the "right wing" or the "christian right"—as she labels those whose politics differ from her own—will use sex-selective abortion as part of a wider war on abortion itself. she believes that something must be done about the purposeful aborting of female babies or it could lead to "feminists' worst nightmare: a ban on all abortions."

it is telling that ms. hvistendahl identifies a ban on abortion—and not the killing of tens of millions of unborn girls—as the "worst nightmare" of feminism. even though 163 million girls have been denied life solely because of their gender, she can't help seeing the problem through the lens of an american political issue. yet, while she is not willing to say that something has gone terribly wrong with the pro-abortion movement, she does recognize that two ideas are coming into conflict: "after decades of fighting for a woman's right to choose the outcome of her own pregnancy, it is difficult to turn around and point out that women are abusing that right."

late in "unnatural selection," ms. hvistendahl makes some suggestions as to how such "abuse" might be curbed without infringing on a woman's right to have an abortion. in attempting to serve these two diametrically opposed ideas, she proposes banning the common practice of revealing the sex of a baby to parents during ultrasound testing. and not just ban it, but have rigorous government enforcement, which would include nationwide sting operations designed to send doctors and ultrasound techs and nurses who reveal the sex of babies to jail. beyond the police surveillance of obstetrics facilities, doctors would be required to "investigate women carrying female fetuses more thoroughly" when they request abortions, in order to ensure that their motives are not illegal.

such a regime borders on the absurd. it is neither feasible nor tolerable—nor efficacious: sex determination has been against the law in both china and india for years, to no effect. i suspect that ms. hvistendahl's counter-argument would be that china and india do not enforce their laws rigorously enough.

despite the author's intentions,"unnatural selection" might be one of the most consequential books ever written in the campaign against abortion. it is aimed, like a heat-seeking missile, against the entire intellectual framework of "choice." for if "choice" is the moral imperative guiding abortion, then there is no way to take a stand against "gendercide." aborting a baby because she is a girl is no different from aborting a baby because she has down syndrome or because the mother's "mental health" requires it. choice is choice. one indian abortionist tells ms. hvistendahl: "i have patients who come and say 'i want to abort because if this baby is born it will be a gemini, but i want a libra. ' "

this is where choice leads. this is where choice has already led. ms. hvistendahl may wish the matter otherwise, but there are only two alternatives: restrict abortion or accept the slaughter of millions of baby girls and the calamities that are likely to come with it.

[Slaveowner]

Much has been made of the gender imbalance issue and along with it dire predictions of "extra men" and their "frustrations." In reality most of these "extra men" will be those coming from the extreme bottom of the social strata who generally come from the poor and rural interior of China.

In fact, at he high end of the dating pool, there's in fact the opposite problem of white-collar professional women in their upper 20s and early 30s who are unable to find their significant others. For them, no matter how many "extra men" there may be, there's no way these women would marry those men.

[OneWay]

Hey guys, I need your advice!

I will go alone to a China trip for 2 weeks, , in December.

So I thought, before I go there, I should get to know some Chinese people and girls to show me around, and have some fun.

I got QQ and there were a lot of girls adding me up, and most of them would want to meet up when I am there.

Anyway, So I met this one girl a month ago, her english was pretty good, and we often made voice calls too.

The thing is, She has a BOYFRIEND, with whom she will marry in a year, but she rarely mentions him, they live together, at his parents house!

She keps telling me that she wants to meet me so much and we can travel, she even said she would travel with me to other cities.

I asked her if that is ok with her boy, she said, might not be ok, but he will not know a thing.

So anyway, I thought WTF, she wants me so much, would I be able to hit her? Does she want me in a horny way or really just for travel?

And more comes. We talked more about my trip, she made already plans to show me some cities and travel. I asked her about the hotels, if 2 rooms or 2 beds or something, she said, just 1 room.

So now she made a plan to visit with me 5 cities, in 2 weeks, only we both.

She said she surely will make something up to her boyfriend, so she can leave without his attention.

Anyway we didn't talk about sex or horny stuffs, because I don't want to make her scared or smething.

She kept saying how handsome I am, and she always wanted to meet a foreigner, and have a foreigner friend, and now calls me her best friend.

As "joke" I said, too bad I can't marry you, she said "I would!" even though she had marriage plans with her boyfriend LOL.

Do you think, she wants to do "everything" with me? Because I am some special foreigner? If so, it could be a vacation with lots of fun.

[OneWay]

Hey guys, I need your advice!

I will go alone to a China trip for 2 weeks, in December.

So I thought, before I go there, I should get to know some Chinese people and girls to show me around, and have some fun.

I got QQ and there were a lot of girls adding me up, and most of them would want to meet up when I am there.

Anyway, So I met this one girl a month ago, her english was pretty good, and we often made voice calls too.

The thing is, She has a BOYFRIEND, with whom she will marry in a year, but she rarely mentions him, they live together, at his parents house!

She keps telling me that she wants to meet me so much and we can travel, she even said she would travel with me to other cities.

I asked her if that is ok with her boy, she said, might not be ok, but he will not know a thing.

So anyway, I thought WTF, she wants me so much, would I be able to hit her? Does she want me in a horny way or really just for travel?

And more comes. We talked more about my trip, she made already plans to show me some cities and travel. I asked her about the hotels, if 2 rooms or 2 beds or something, she said, just 1 room.

So now she made a plan to visit with me 5 cities, in 2 weeks, only we both.

She said she surely will make something up to her boyfriend, so she can leave without his attention.

Anyway we didn't talk about sex or horny stuffs, because I don't want to make her scared or smething.

She kept saying how handsome I am, and she always wanted to meet a foreigner, and have a foreigner friend, and now calls me her best friend.

As "joke" I said, too bad I can't marry you, she said "I would!" even though she had marriage plans with her boyfriend LOL.

Do you think, she wants to do "everything" with me? Because I am some special foreigner? If so, it could be a vacation with lots of fun.

[Pushkin13]

Hey guys, I need your advice!

I will go alone to a China trip for 2 weeks, in December.

So I thought, before I go there, I should get to know some Chinese people and girls to show me around, and have some fun.

I got QQ and there were a lot of girls adding me up, and most of them would want to meet up when I am there.

Anyway, So I met this one girl a month ago, her english was pretty good, and we often made voice calls too.

The thing is, She has a BOYFRIEND, with whom she will marry in a year, but she rarely mentions him, they live together, at his parents house!

She keps telling me that she wants to meet me so much and we can travel, she even said she would travel with me to other cities.

I asked her if that is ok with her boy, she said, might not be ok, but he will not know a thing.

So anyway, I thought WTF, she wants me so much, would I be able to hit her? Does she want me in a horny way or really just for travel?

And more comes. We talked more about my trip, she made already plans to show me some cities and travel. I asked her about the hotels, if 2 rooms or 2 beds or something, she said, just 1 room.

So now she made a plan to visit with me 5 cities, in 2 weeks, only we both.

She said she surely will make something up to her boyfriend, so she can leave without his attention.

Anyway we didn't talk about sex or horny stuffs, because I don't want to make her scared or smething.

She kept saying how handsome I am, and she always wanted to meet a foreigner, and have a foreigner friend, and now calls me her best friend.

As "joke" I said, too bad I can't marry you, she said "I would!" even though she had marriage plans with her boyfriend LOL.

Do you think, she wants to do "everything" with me? Because I am some special foreigner? If so, it could be a vacation with lots of fun. Follow the money.

Follow the money.

When she wants money from you to make the bookings, bail out! Until then, and if you make the bookings, everything is sweetness and light. .

Just my experience!

Ouch!

P13

[Marty47]

I have a girl friend who I travel with in SH. She lives with a boyfriend, She is hot and fun. She pays for the airline tickets in China and I give her the money back when I see her. She does not ask for money from me. Actually when I paid her back for the first trip, she thought it was "gift" and really got pissed. But when I told her it was reimbursement for the tickets-then okay. Don't send money by wire-if you want to pay her for her time that is okay if it is okay with her.


Hey guys, I need your advice!

I will go alone to a China trip for 2 weeks, in December.

So I thought, before I go there, I should get to know some Chinese people and girls to show me around, and have some fun.

I got QQ and there were a lot of girls adding me up, and most of them would want to meet up when I am there.

Anyway, So I met this one girl a month ago, her english was pretty good, and we often made voice calls too.

The thing is, She has a BOYFRIEND, with whom she will marry in a year, but she rarely mentions him, they live together, at his parents house!

She keps telling me that she wants to meet me so much and we can travel, she even said she would travel with me to other cities.

I asked her if that is ok with her boy, she said, might not be ok, but he will not know a thing.

So anyway, I thought WTF, she wants me so much, would I be able to hit her? Does she want me in a horny way or really just for travel?

And more comes. We talked more about my trip, she made already plans to show me some cities and travel. I asked her about the hotels, if 2 rooms or 2 beds or something, she said, just 1 room.

So now she made a plan to visit with me 5 cities, in 2 weeks, only we both.

She said she surely will make something up to her boyfriend, so she can leave without his attention.

Anyway we didn't talk about sex or horny stuffs, because I don't want to make her scared or smething.

She kept saying how handsome I am, and she always wanted to meet a foreigner, and have a foreigner friend, and now calls me her best friend.

As "joke" I said, too bad I can't marry you, she said "I would!" even though she had marriage plans with her boyfriend LOL.

Do you think, she wants to do "everything" with me? Because I am some special foreigner? If so, it could be a vacation with lots of fun.

[OneWay]

Follow the money.

Follow the money.

When she wants money from you to make the bookings, bail out! Until then, and if you make the bookings, everything is sweetness and light. .

Just my experience!

Ouch!

P13No, it's not about the money, she just wants to see me so much and show me some cities, which she hasn't seen herself either.

About the money, we said we share the hotel price, and everyone buys train tickets themself of course.

All I want to know, even though she has that bf and stuff, does she want an affair with me?

I mean 2 weeks just with a foreigner, in one bedroom. Sounds like she doesn't care about her bf.

[Sammon]

It is kind of a fashion in China to say that they have a BF. The girl feels it is a shame to tell anyone that she does not have a BF especially for casual meeting or relationship.

Many girls love to travel with you as long as you pay. If she is ok with sex it does not matter but if she crosses her legs on these trips it is a headache for you.

There is nothing worst than taking a girl on tripos who is not romantic with you.

Make your intentions clear. I would suggest meet her first and see how things go. Do not make make plans from here.

Except for trains there is no need to make advance reservations. All travel agents do these reservations quickly for train, plane etc. You can book hotel reservation yourself online.

Go to elong. Com or ctrip. Com.

There should be some romance between you and the girl for you to enjoy the sightseeing and travel.

I think this girl is a gold digger. Do not send any money for any reason.

[OneWay]

Ok thanks for the tips guys.

I will keep that in mind with the gold digging.

And it's sure that she has a boyfriend because she lives there, when we made voice calls, I sometimes heard him too,

She told him that she just practises english with me, but now I try to only call her without him being there, because she said he got sometimes curious and jealous.

And for the money, I won't let her book anything, and we said we buy ourself what we need, train tickets, and in the hotel we will share the price there.

But you seem right, it would be a headache if she isn't up for anything then, I will have to ask her if we will be in the same bed or not, but I will ask it when the right time comes. If she says yes, it would clearly point for some romance.

And@Marty47, that girl you mentioned, did you have some romance going on too? Or was it just for traveling.

[Loveasiangirls]

Hey guys, I need your advice!

I will go alone to a China trip for 2 weeks, , in December.

So I thought, before I go there, I should get to know some Chinese people and girls to show me around, and have some fun.

I got QQ and. Can't marry you, she said "I would!" even though she had marriage plans with her boyfriend LOL.

Do you think, she wants to do "everything" with me? Because I am some special foreigner? If so, it could be a vacation with lots of fun. Based on my broad experience with freebies all of which I found on the internet, I don't give this one more than a 10% probability that something will happen.

When trolling for freebies on the net you need to learn to cut the line sometimes so as not to waste your time. If it is not clear, do not have high hope for shagging her, boyfriend or not.

[Gualtier Malde]

Having been with many freebies in China, I don't think she is a gold digger, at least not at this point. She may later want to go shopping. That is when you will pay, if you start buying her things. But don't go shopping until after you've accomplished the shagging part! Based on that, you can decide whether and how much you want to buy her.

I would have a slight concern about the fact that she has called you with her boyfriend present. There was a couple in Shanghai a few years back who would invite guys for sex and then mug them. They used to advertise in Adult FriendFinder (aka FacebookOfSex). I would meet her first locally, before going on a trip.

I have been with many girls who have either boyfriends or husbands. It is very common here for them to secretly fool around.

Don't ask her if you are going to have sex. I think it is obvious you will, she booked you two in the same room. But, perhaps you can ask her a less direct question: ask her if she considers herself a "traditional" Chinese girl. If she says no, she is going to jump your bones as soon as the door closes to the hotel room. If she says yes, she probably will want to be treated like a lady for a few minutes before jumping your bones.

Also, you are a foreigner. You better be willing to lick her p*ssy. That's the other reason (besides money) that Chinese girls, especially with boyfriends, seek out foreigners.

GM.


Ok thanks for the tips guys.

I will keep that in mind with the gold digging.

And it's sure that she has a boyfriend because she lives there, when we made voice calls, I sometimes heard him too,

She told him that she just practises english with me, but now I try to only call her without him being there, because she said he got sometimes curious and jealous.

And for the money, I won't let her book anything, and we said we buy ourself what we need, train tickets, and in the hotel we will share the price there.

But you seem right, it would be a headache if she isn't up for anything then, I will have to ask her if we will be in the same bed or not, but I will ask it when the right time comes. If she says yes, it would clearly point for some romance.

And@Marty47, that girl you mentioned, did you have some romance going on too? Or was it just for traveling.

[Jamie5063]

Based on my broad experience with freebies all of which I found on the internet, I don't give this one more than a 10% probability that something will happen.

When trolling for freebies on the net you need to learn to cut the line sometimes so as not to waste your time. If it is not clear, do not have high hope for shagging her, boyfriend or not. I've wasted so much time on "freebies" with little success, I live here and have a wife which may be most of the problem the extra company is nice and China girls do tend to buy you meals to study English (at 20rmb an hour) so its not that bad. I've had quotes I can do anything I like on the phone and on arrival told it did not mean that. You can book hotels on Ctrip with quite a late cancellation policy but if your in China a short time forget it. Paying is cheaper and less dramatic although even P4P get lazy or dramatic after a few visits, Even had one accuse me of cheating on her haha. After a year I've had some success with friends maybe on there horny week. I still keep working on it never give up on the new chase there is lots of opportunity and expect the next disappointment soon. Just smile and pop in my favorite place on the way home.

[Jamie5063]

No, it's not about the money, she just wants to see me so much and show me some cities, which she hasn't seen herself either.

About the money, we said we share the hotel price, and everyone buys train tickets themself of course.

All I want to know, even though she has that bf and stuff, does she want an affair with me?

I mean 2 weeks just with a foreigner, in one bedroom. Sounds like she doesn't care about her bf. Sharing a room is quite normal here she might bring her mum, brother, sister, and uncle better check.

[Fuzimiao]

, and in the hotel we will share the price there.Seems to me, you let her pay half the hotel bill, you are in for quite a disapointment!

The actual cost of a second person in a room is zilch.

Two people pay, they get two rooms!

Fz

[Loveasiangirls]

Seems to me, you let her pay half the hotel bill, you are in for quite a disapointment!

The actual cost of a second person in a room is zilch.

Two people pay, they get two rooms!

FzGoing dutch! For sure you won't get laid. You are just a friend. Even if you pay the room the probability of getting laid is not 100.

[Red Rock II]

Here is a hint: At night, when you two sleep in one room in a hotel, if she changes to a night gown after taking a shower, most likely, you will get a laid. After you two sleep together, you had better to pay the hotel in full instead of splitting the bill, same advice applies to food, train / airline tickets, and fees required getting into park, museums. No matter how handsome you are, how badly she wants to have sex with a foreigner, she expects you to pick up the bills everywhere you go. It is not just a matter of the money, she wants you to treat her like a lady. In Chinese culture, if she really wants to share the cost, normally you two are taking turns to pick up the bill instead of paying half and half each time.

[Marty47]

She flat wears me out-too much of good thing. Last trip we said our goodbye and the next day I was leaving that nite-she calls at 11 am and wants to come over for lunch. You can imagine the fun lunch we had-she is too good to lose-in August another 4 day vaction.


Ok thanks for the tips guys.

I will keep that in mind with the gold digging.

And it's sure that she has a boyfriend because she lives there, when we made voice calls, I sometimes heard him too,

She told him that she just practises english with me, but now I try to only call her without him being there, because she said he got sometimes curious and jealous.

And for the money, I won't let her book anything, and we said we buy ourself what we need, train tickets, and in the hotel we will share the price there.

But you seem right, it would be a headache if she isn't up for anything then, I will have to ask her if we will be in the same bed or not, but I will ask it when the right time comes. If she says yes, it would clearly point for some romance.

And@Marty47, that girl you mentioned, did you have some romance going on too? Or was it just for traveling.

[Stegram]

Ok thanks for the tips guys.

I will keep that in mind with the gold digging.

And it's sure that she has a boyfriend because she lives there, when we made voice calls, I sometimes heard him too,

She told him that she just practises english with me, but now I try to only call her without him being there, because she said he got sometimes curious and jealous.

And for the money, I won't let her book anything, and we said we buy ourself what we need, train tickets, and in the hotel we will share the price there.

But you seem right, it would be a headache if she isn't up for anything then, I will have to ask her if we will be in the same bed or not, but I will ask it when the right time comes. If she says yes, it would clearly point for some romance.

And@Marty47, that girl you mentioned, did you have some romance going on too? Or was it just for traveling. One more word on this. Don't commit to spend your whole trip with a girl you've never met. Definitely have an escape plan in place. I've traveled with a girl that I thought I wanted to screw for a week, and by the third night I was dying to get rid of her. You're going to check into a hotel on the fifth night and you'll see the "massage" or "spa" sign and you won't be able to do a damn thing about it.

[AussieGaigin]

I have been reading with interest the recent threads on westerners travelling in China with local girls: I seem to be getting a problem with the 'reverse direction'.

I am a 60 year old Australian living in Sydney. I am married with a couple of young kids, but a 'stale' marriage. I played around with quite a few younger Japanese and Chinese girls in my single years, and would now like to try out some mature women for the occasional sortie. My 'market research' indicates there are a lot of reasonable looking local divorced or widowed ladies in the late 40s to early 60s who would like some company. Just for the fun of it I put a listing in a Chinese dating / marriage agency website, stating quite clearly where I was and what I was looking for.

Needless to say I have already been inundated with dozens of marriage proposals, obviously written by agency 'translators', which in no way address my criteria. However a couple did stand out. One was a woman with a daughter living in Melbourne who she visited regularly, and offered to come up to Sydney and meet me. The other was a mid 40s widow whose endearing features include 'liking to walk around the house naked; horny most of the time; lots of sexual energy waiting to be released; get hot and wet easily'. She seems quite willing to jump on a plane and come over here, after exchange of only a couple of e-mails, and not even a decent photo of me. Both women assure me that although they are really looking for permanent relationships (which I have told them I'm not) , they feel there is nothing wrong with having an extra 'friend' in the meantime.

There is an old saying business 'if a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is', and these proposals have set my alarm bells ringing. Neither woman has made suggestions of my 'funding' any part of their trip yet (they appear to be independently well off), but I can't help feeling that it is all a bit too easy. The first one I feel reasonably comfortable about, but the second one is a bit 'scary'.

Any past experiences or suggestions from other subscribers?

[Sxyman]

Here is a hint: At night, when you two sleep in one room in a hotel, if she changes to a night gown after taking a shower, most likely, you will get a laid. After you two sleep together, you had better to pay the hotel in full instead of splitting the bill, same advice applies to food, train / airline tickets, and fees required getting into park, museums. No matter how handsome you are, how badly she wants to have sex with a foreigner, she expects you to pick up the bills everywhere you go. It is not just a matter of the money, she wants you to treat her like a lady. In Chinese culture, if she really wants to share the cost, normally you two are taking turns to pick up the bill instead of paying half and half each time.Thanks for this. This is really important to know when dating Chinese girls!

Any more important tips one should know about Chinese culture? How to find out the girl isn't really interested in money. That's what I'd love to know more about!

[Mmlouie]

She seems quite willing to jump on a plane and come over here, after exchange of only a couple of e-mails, and not even a decent photo of me. Both women assure me that although they are really looking for permanent relationships (which I have told them I'm not) , they feel there is nothing wrong with having an extra 'friend' in the meantime.Cannot speak for Japanese women but Chinese women in the mid 40's have a different meaning of "love" than westerners. Being that said; that does not mean that you cannot get them as sex buddies. What was that saying "be careful what you wish for, you might get it". The easy part is to get them, the hardest is to get rid of them. Always trust your instinct.

Mmlouie

[Member #4689]

Need some advice from the experienced members here on dealing with Chinese girls (non-WG). The recent events :

A) The other day I was at Nanjing Lu (Shanghai) near Peoples Square, when I saw a cute petite girl with legs / feet to die for (I am a leg / feet man.). With my superzoom camera I took some nice pics from a safe distance (15-20m!) without her noticing and therefor acting unnatural. After taking quite some pics (she was waiting for someone and using her mobile) , I approached her and asked if I could take a picture of her. She look somewhat susprised, but not uncomfortable and agreed. I took a few pictures but she kept her face turned away from the camera, so I only have her sideways and only a mediocre frontal shot. Does not matter since I have great zoom shots, which she did not know of course, he, he. I started a small conversation and it turned out that she did her masters degree in business in the UK and recently returned to work in Shanghai. She is originally from Chongqing (lately I have met some nice Chongqing gals both WG and non-WG) and was waiting for some friends to appear. Her English was quite good (she studied in the UK) ans she seemed OK to talk to me but not over engaging, hmmm. After a few minutes she had to go see her friends and I asked if we could meet again and share mobile nrs. She did not hesitate, gave me her nr which I immediately dialed on my phone to make sure it is the right one and to give her my name (of course not Changelelu.). I shook hands with her and we said goodbye. When I left I had a good feeling, met a nice girl with potential quite unexpected, so was looking forward to the follow ups. That evening I send her a text message saying how nice to meet etc, got no reply, OK. The following day I tried to send the legit (!) pictures by phone, but they were too large (5MB) so it did not work, hence I texted her to aks her email address. Again no reply, send 2 follow up messages to no avail. Then she replied saying she was very busy, had no time and did not want to communicate with me. And ended with : "sorry". So after this long story, what do you think happened, why did she change her mind, if ever, perhaps she was overwhelmed when we met and never intended to contact me in the first place. What did I do wrong? I want to learn from this case and improve my chances.

B) Entered a Wagas cafe and spotted a nice girl with beautiful feet sitting alone eating pasta. This immediately made me chance my intention of sitting outside and I sat down next to her! Ordered some food and while waiting observed her a bit. Then I asked her about the food, whether she liked Western food, bla, bla. She spoke reasonably English, was friendly but somewhat distant. This 'ice queen' attitude brought out the best in me, of course I had to break the ice, so more small talk followed. She was from Hefei, studied English and now worked for a construction company in Shanghai. When I jokingly asked her whether she was designing all these high rises, she said that she worked in admin and did not look happy. For someone who had studied 4 years English at university (not a very famous one though) , her English was rather so-so, I have met Chinese her age who majored in other subjects who are more fluent. During the talk I had to contantly engage her and following came out : she did not well at her high school exam (gao kao) so could not go to a "good" university which had limited her career so far, she felt left behind in todays rat race. She compained about her overbearing parents who wanted to control her all the time, she was very unhappy. Hearing this. While staring at her well manicured feet, yummy.) I tried to cheer her up. But to no avail, she said life had no meaning and she thought about committing suicide! At that point I did not know what to say, she looked serious and was very distressed, so I tried to offer bright prospects but she questioned me, why would a stranger like me want to talk to her, help her etc. She said that she liked to talk to me since she could not talk to her family and friends, she was thinking about returning home etc. Since I lost a dear friend many years ago (suicide) I seriously wanted to help and mentioned this to her, upon which she was most intrested in learning how my friend had chosen to die. Quite macabre and so out of the ordinary. She became uncomfortable with the stares from the cafe staff (Chinese girl talking to a stranger sitting at an adjacent table) that she wanted to leave. I proposed to continue our conversation in another cafe (where we could enter as friends, I. E. Save face!) and so we left. We sat down in cafe nr 2 and continued the conversation, but things turned downhill from then on, we perhaps only spoke for 10 min when she told me that there was no point in further talking to a stranger and that her mother (yeah, always the overbearing influence of Chinese mothers) had always warned her against talking to strangers etc. At this point I wanted to ask whether she would always follow her mother's advice (remember her complaints about her parents) but tought it inappropiate given her state of mind. So within 5 seconds, she packed her bag and left and did not want to exchange mobile nrs so we could talk again. Never saw her after that and now I am seriously wondering how she is doing. What do you think, did I make a mistake, please understand I just wanted to help and not hit on her after hearing her story.

So these are my recent non-WG experiences in the last week alone, life is complicated, better stick to my favorite BBS, quick simple and fun.

Thanks for all you input, I really look foward to learn from your collective wisdom and experience.

Changlelu

[Gualtier Malde]

Need some advice from the experienced members here on dealing with Chinese girls (non-WG). The recent events :

A) The other day I was at Nanjing Lu (Shanghai). [long, pointless story clipped]. What did I do wrong? I want to learn from this case and improve my chances.

B) Entered a Wagas cafe and spotted a nice girl with beautiful feet sitting alone eating pasta. [another long, pointless story clipped]. What do you think, did I make a mistake, please understand I just wanted to help and not hit on her after hearing her story.

So these are my recent non-WG experiences in the last week alone, life is complicated, better stick to my favorite BBS, quick simple and fun.

Thanks for all you input, I really look foward to learn from your collective wisdom and experience.

Changlelu1. Check your meds, you probably missed some doses / got a bad batch.

2. Stick to the BBS, until the I AM THE ONE YOUR MOTHER WARNED YOU ABOUT tattoo on your forehead fades away.

Imagine there is a smiley here if it helps.

GM

[Sammon]

Gone are the days when Chinese girls were interested in foreign men to speak to and sometimes go with you. Nowadays they are not much interested because of the economy and generallyy more knowledge and contacts with western world. Chinese girls are willing to speak with you but in a casual manner most of the time. It is not like the girls in the western world. Western girls, if they decide to sit with you and chat it means they are interested and maybe willing to date.

It is still kind of taboo for Chinese girls to be seen with western men. Very few non-working girls are interested.

When I lived in Shenzhen few years ago, I got few non-working girlfriends but it takes time and effort. Yes, sometimes I met girls in bars, shared drinks, danced etc but when it comes to take them home it is a dud.

One of my GF was a massage girl. She did only Legitimate massages. Since I was friendly with her, I asked her to have dinner with me. But it took couple of dinner only dates to get her in bed. Once we were intimate she was in my apartment every time she was not working.

I had atleast 6 girlfriends. Two office workers I met while eating in restaurent, one girl worked in mall, another worked in fast food place.

If you live there it is possible to score with normal girls.

Otherrwise Stick to working girls and have fun.

[Member #4689]

1. Check your meds, you probably missed some doses / got a bad batch.

2. Stick to the BBS, until the I AM THE ONE YOUR MOTHER WARNED YOU ABOUT tattoo on your forehead fades away.

Imagine there is a smiley here if it helps.

GMDear Gualtier, just the serious and informative reply I was looking for. Common, you can do much better than that! By the way, why do you call these stories 'long and pointless', I took the time and effort to give you some background. But I agree with sammon that Chinese girls are less interested these days, compared to 15 years ago when I lived in China for the first time, then girls were perhaps more shy but also more curious to have contact with foreigners, I guess the novelty has worn off, although the girls from that time are now in their 40s, so not my current target.

Cheers

[Pushkin13]

Dear Gualtier, just the serious and informative reply I was looking for. Common, you can do much better than that! By the way, why do you call these stories 'long and pointless', I took the time and effort to give you some background. But I agree with sammon that Chinese girls are less interested these days, compared to 15 years ago when I lived in China for the first time, then girls were perhaps more shy but also more curious to have contact with foreigners, I guess the novelty has worn off, although the girls from that time are now in their 40s, so not my current target.

CheersChanglelu: keep trawling. When your needs coincide with the woman's / girl's needs then you have a winner. You are in charge of your needs, and the women you randomly meet are in charge of their needs.

If there is no "coincidence", or insufficient "coincidence" either you will know, or the woman will know.

In both of these cases you mentioned, their needs / expectations were not met.

They have moved on.

You will too.

Just my (painful, learning) experience.

P13

[Gualtier Malde]

Dear Gualtier, just the serious and informative reply I was looking for. Common, you can do much better than that! By the way, why do you call these stories 'long and pointless', I took the time and effort to give you some background. But I agree with sammon that Chinese girls are less interested these days, compared to 15 years ago when I lived in China for the first time, then girls were perhaps more shy but also more curious to have contact with foreigners, I guess the novelty has worn off, although the girls from that time are now in their 40s, so not my current target.

CheersYou are right, I was harsh with "long and pointless". It's not that your descriptions were pointless, per se, but they were far more detail than needed for the question at hand. And frankly, your behavior sounds a little creepy to me. I think the average Chinese girl would not respond well to your heavy handed approach.

It is not that difficult to cultivate a freebie in China, Sammon's comments notwithstanding. But these are for the most part, intelligent, intuitive, thinking women, and your approach was too strong for them, in both cases.

Cultivate the women that show interest in you, don't try to impose yourself on one who has paid you absolutely no attention. Fish where the fish are feeding. You went after women who weren't looking for anything, and assumed they would respond. That's a very low odds approach. Look for eye contact, a subtle smile, or something that invites you to approach.

When you get a nibble, chat, but not too much, exchange contact info, then wait for her to make the next move (wait for her to text or email you). Then you know you have something to develop. And do it gently.

I do think your approach screams "stalker" to these chicks. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

GM

[Loveasiangirls]

Need some advice from the experienced members here on dealing with Chinese girls (non-WG). The recent events :

A) The other day I was at Nanjing Lu (Shanghai) near Peoples Square, when I saw a cute petite girl with legs / feet to die for (I am a leg / feet man.). With my superzoom camera I took some nice pics from a safe distance (15-20m!) without her noticing and therefor acting unnatural. After taking quite some pics (she was waiting for someone and using her mobile) , I approached her and asked if I could take a picture of her. She look somewhat susprised, but not uncomfortable and agreed. I took a few pictures but she kept her face turned away from the camera. Mobile nrs so we could talk again. Never saw her after that and now I am seriously wondering how she is doing. What do you think, did I make a mistake, please understand I just wanted to help and not hit on her after hearing her story.

So these are my recent non-WG experiences in the last week alone, life is complicated, better stick to my favorite BBS, quick simple and fun.

Thanks for all you input, I really look foward to learn from your collective wisdom and experience.

ChangleluYou can't expect that girls that you approach randomly will have an interest in you, even less that they will sleep with you. Seems to me they were just being polite. It's all about the face thing.

I think that with this kind of approach, your odds are extremely low.

[Expat001]

Gone are the days when Chinese girls were interested in foreign men to speak to and sometimes go with you. Nowadays they are not much interested because of the economy and generallyy more knowledge and contacts with western world. Chinese girls are willing to speak with you but in a casual manner most of the time. It is not like the girls in the western world. Western girls, if they decide to sit with you and chat it means they are interested and maybe willing to date.

It is still kind of taboo for Chinese girls to be seen with western men. Very few non-working girls are interested.

When I lived in Shenzhen few years ago, I got few non-working girlfriends but it takes time and effort. Yes, sometimes I met girls in bars, shared drinks, danced etc but when it comes to take them home it is a dud.

One of my GF was a massage girl. She did only Legitimate massages. Since I was friendly with her, I asked her to have dinner with me. But it took couple of dinner only dates to get her in bed. Once we were intimate she was in my apartment every time she was not working.

I had atleast 6 girlfriends. Two office workers I met while eating in restaurent, one girl worked in mall, another worked in fast food place.

If you live there it is possible to score with normal girls.

Otherrwise Stick to working girls and have fun.I am a middle aged white guy, not attractive at all, who has worked in China on and off since 1980s. I speak basic Mandarin. I completely disagree that it is now harder than before to get free sex in China. Back in the day, yes, lots of girls were curious to follow westerners around and do language exchange, but it was really hard and risked jail and other punishments if a girl was caught having sex with a foreigner. Hotels required you show marriage certificates. There was a floor monitor on every floor to make sure no hanky panky. It is so much easier now to meet and have sex with Chinese girls it is ridiculous. Chinese girls are now more than ever interested in hook-ups with foreigners and it is irrelevant that the sex ratio is 120 guys to 100 girls because we have a 2000% advantage over Chinese guys for those girls who want to meet foreigners. The only skills you need are to invest the time to get to know the girls and treat them with respect. The latter does not necessarily translate into a BMW. It depends on the background of the girl. A farm girl from Hunan working as a sales girl will appreciate a box of chocolates. A university student will enjoy flowers and a meal. But a TV talk show host who looks like a movie star will expect more. The wonderful thing about China is the DIVERSITY. There are so many different body types and faces. Someone for everyone. Now days, most Chinese study English in school so you don't need to know much Chinese to get by. Just don't be shy. Go for it and the percentages will work in your favor.

Whether in Shanghai or out in the boonies. There are tons of girls who are hot to hang with foreigners and an age gap of 20 years younger is not a big deal for many.

Sure the WGs are great too and fill a niche for guys who are too busy and only in a town for a couple of days. But who really feels comfortable kissing a massage girl who has been giving BBBJs all day long every day for the last 6 months?

[Meiguoguizi]

Imagine if you will a Chinese guy in your hometown supermarket, wearing an expensive camera, asking your sister or daughter if he could take her picture.

What do you think his odds are of getting lucky? Slapped? Arrested?

What is it about the expatriate western male psyche that assumes that any non-Caucasian women is easy prey? Miss Saigon flashbacks?

[Pussycheck]

Which city in China do you recommend when you want to pick up beautiful and tall Chinese girls for free?

The city Dalian in the North East of China is said to have the tallest and most beautiful girls in China.

Is Dalian a city too where it is easy to pick up beautiful and tall Chinese girls?

I'm not interested in KTV or BBS girls.

I'm looking for regular Chinese girls who are open-minded, interested in a foreigner and want to have fun too.

[Gualtier Malde]

Which city in China do you recommend when you want to pick up beautiful and tall Chinese girls for free?

The city Dalian in the North East of China is said to have the tallest and most beautiful girls in China.

Is Dalian a city too where it is easy to pick up beautiful and tall Chinese girls?

I'm not interested in KTV or BBS girls.

I'm looking for regular Chinese girls who are open-minded, interested in a foreigner and want to have fun too.I think Shanghai is easier than Beijing. I found Shenzhen to be pretty easy too, but I don't know if you'll find as many tall women there. I can't speak for Dalian, never tried there.

GM

[Pussycheck]

I think Shanghai is easier than Beijing. I found Shenzhen to be pretty easy too, but I don't know if you'll find as many tall women there. I can't speak for Dalian, never tried there.

GMAre there any special places in Shenzhen you can recommend such as cafes, clubs or malls to pick up either regular girls who are looking for a boy-friend or some fun or freelancing girls who work on their own and want to make some money?

I did not know that Shenzhen is pretty easy too because I thought most of the single women in Shenzhen are occupied by Hong Kong men already.

[Gualtier Malde]

Are there any special places in Shenzhen you can recommend such as cafes, clubs or malls to pick up either regular girls who are looking for a boy-friend or some fun or freelancing girls who work on their own and want to make some money?

I did not know that Shenzhen is pretty easy too because I thought most of the single women in Shenzhen are occupied by Hong Kong men already.It has been a while since I've been there, but I just went to the nightclubs. At the time the women were not only approachable, but they were approaching me. These were freebie women, not pros seeking a transaction.

GM

[Meiguoguizi]

I suspect that a greater percentage of Chinese mongers are experimenting with cunnilingus.

One technique that western men use is 'drawing the alphabet' with their tongue. Quick random patterns are often effective.

Many of us western mongers are now learning Chinese characters. A difficult task.

To support my studies, I have substituted Chinese characters for the alphabet when 'going down'.

I have discover that the character for 'money'. &38065; is particularly powerful on working girls.

[Bob Sacamano]

I suspect that a greater percentage of Chinese mongers are experimenting with cunnilingus.

One technique that western men use is 'drawing the alphabet' with their tongue. Quick random patterns are often effective.

Many of us western mongers are now learning Chinese characters. A difficult task.

To support my studies, I have substituted Chinese characters for the alphabet when 'going down'.

I have discover that the character for 'money'. &38065; is particularly powerful on working girls.Ha-ha-ha! Good one, Meiguoguizi! Or how about "writing out" the word "money" in English over and over? I'd read that thing about "drawing the alphabet" before. It relieves the challenge of,"What am I supposed to do down here?".

[NoHablaZh]

I had this one WG, er, masseuse, come up to my hotel room. She was really friendly and talkative, which was great except that my Chinese isn't very good so my mind was racing to keep up with what she was saying and how to answer her questions. Oh yeah, she was also really hot.

Anyway, after she got dressed and after she counted the money, she asked me if I wanted a daughter (nv3 er2). At first I thought I misunderstood, but she repeated it so I'm sure that's what she asked.

Anyone have any guesses as to why she would ask that?

Thanks.

[Konsul]

Anyway, after she got dressed and after she counted the money, she asked me if I wanted a daughter (nv3 er2). At first I thought I misunderstood, but she repeated it so I'm sure that's what she asked.

Anyone have any guesses as to why she would ask that?Congratulation. You bonked her with a broken condom and she asked for the outcome (smile)

[Dynamic]

I have been reading with interest the recent threads on westerners travelling in China with local girls: I seem to be getting a problem with the 'reverse direction'.

I am a 60 year old Australian living in Sydney. I am married with a couple of young kids, but a 'stale' marriage. I played around with quite a few younger Japanese and Chinese girls in my single years, and would now like to try out some mature women for the occasional sortie. My 'market research' indicates there are a lot of reasonable looking local divorced or widowed ladies in the late 40s to early 60s who would like some company. Just for the fun of it I put a listing in a Chinese dating / marriage agency website, stating quite clearly where I was and what I was looking for.

Needless to say I have already been inundated with dozens of marriage proposals, obviously written by agency 'translators', which in no way address my criteria. However a couple did stand out. One was a woman with a daughter living in Melbourne who she visited regularly, and offered to come up to Sydney and meet me. The other was a mid 40s widow whose endearing features include 'liking to walk around the house naked; horny most of the time; lots of sexual energy waiting to be released; get hot and wet easily'. She seems quite willing to jump on a plane and come over here, after exchange of only a couple of e-mails, and not even a decent photo of me. Both women assure me that although they are really looking for permanent relationships (which I have told them I'm not) , they feel there is nothing wrong with having an extra 'friend' in the meantime.

There is an old saying business 'if a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is', and these proposals have set my alarm bells ringing. Neither woman has made suggestions of my 'funding' any part of their trip yet (they appear to be independently well off) , but I can't help feeling that it is all a bit too easy. The first one I feel reasonably comfortable about, but the second one is a bit 'scary'.

Any past experiences or suggestions from other subscribers?One thing I was told before I came to the great 'Middle Kingdom' and has always rung true, is that Chinese will never tell you everything. But be assured, you will pay. Women of this age who are divorced and have a kid, have little or no chance of scoring a Chinese guy. They are probably thinking that once you get a taste of their oriental charms, that you will be putty in their hands, and if you are paying, they have nothing to lose. Play the game, try them out, have some fun, but keep your guard up Chinese women have all the tricks to beguile you. Might be easy to get, but difficult to get rid of. Store your conscience in a safe place and enjoy the experience.

JMHO

[OldAsiaHand]

I don't see any decline in the interest of Chinese women for foreigners, rather to the contrary. I am doing better now with freebies than I ever have in the 16+ years I have been living in China.

OK, if you are looking for the 18-23yo super stunners in the major cities, you are facing too much competition from the new rich locals and BSD overseas Chinese guys that shower them with money, apartments, cars and lavish gifts. I set my sights on the 28-35yo age group. In this age bracket, I am not competing with the BSDs and have great success.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Mmlouie]

I set my sights on the 28-35yo age group. In this age bracket, I am not competing with the BSDs and have great success.

Just my POV.

OAHAnd if you set your sight for the MILF's, then it will be really the wild, wild east. LOL!

Mmlouie

[Loveasiangirls]

I don't see any decline in the interest of Chinese women for foreigners, rather to the contrary. I am doing better now with freebies than I ever have in the 16+ years I have been living in China.

OK, if you are looking for the 18-23yo super stunners in the major cities, you are facing too much competition from the new rich locals and BSD overseas Chinese guys that shower them with money, apartments, cars and lavish gifts. I set my sights on the 28-35yo age group. In this age bracket, I am not competing with the BSDs and have great success.

Just my POV.

OAHAgree. Tons of women in their 30s, especially the divorced ones, are easy to pick.

[Bnlee2]

I don't see any decline in the interest of Chinese women for foreigners, rather to the contrary. I am doing better now with freebies than I ever have in the 16+ years I have been living in China.

OK, if you are looking for the 18-23yo super stunners in the major cities, you are facing too much competition from the new rich locals and BSD overseas Chinese guys that shower them with money, apartments, cars and lavish gifts. I set my sights on the 28-35yo age group. In this age bracket, I am not competing with the BSDs and have great success.

Just my POV.

OAHHey guy, you are moving into my hunting ground. I find 30-40yo freebies much less complex than the 18-23 yo stunners. Much less money and sometimes if they are married, horny and lonely (their hubby having a problem with working 24/7/365) makes it much more convenient for me

[Bnlee2]

I don't see any decline in the interest of Chinese women for foreigners, rather to the contrary. I am doing better now with freebies than I ever have in the 16+ years I have been living in China.

OK, if you are looking for the 18-23yo super stunners in the major cities, you are facing too much competition from the new rich locals and BSD overseas Chinese guys that shower them with money, apartments, cars and lavish gifts. I set my sights on the 28-35yo age group. In this age bracket, I am not competing with the BSDs and have great success.

Just my POV.

OAHHey guy, you are moving into my hunting ground. I find 30-40yo freebies much less complex than the 18-23 yo stunners. Much less money and sometimes if they are married, horny and lonely (their hubby having a problem with working 24/7/365) makes it much more convenient for me.

[Bnlee2]

I don't see any decline in the interest of Chinese women for foreigners, rather to the contrary. I am doing better now with freebies than I ever have in the 16+ years I have been living in China.

OK, if you are looking for the 18-23yo super stunners in the major cities, you are facing too much competition from the new rich locals and BSD overseas Chinese guys that shower them with money, apartments, cars and lavish gifts. I set my sights on the 28-35yo age group. In this age bracket, I am not competing with the BSDs and have great success.

Just my POV.

OAHHey guy, you are moving into my hunting ground. I find 30-40yo freebies much less complex than the 18-23 yo stunners. Much less money and sometimes if they are married, horny and lonely (their hubby having a problem with working 24/7/365) makes it much more convenient for me.

[OldAsiaHand]

And if you set your sight for the MILF's, then it will be really the wild, wild east. LOL!

MmlouieMmlouie,

I tend to stay away from this category. There is an abundance of bored, housewives married to powerful guys in China who are left alone with LV bags full of money to look after the children and do whatever they desire. That said, I would not like to be caught doing one of them by the husband who loses face and decides to do something about it.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Mmlouie]

Mmlouie,

I tend to stay away from this category. There is an abundance of bored, housewives married to powerful guys in China who are left alone with LV bags full of money to look after the children and do whatever they desire. That said, I would not like to be caught doing one of them by the husband who loses face and decides to do something about it.

Just my POV.

OAHOf course it is dangerous to go after those, they are only the minority. There are still plenty to go around, more than enough for me and you to handle!

Mmlouie

[Bnlee2]

Mmlouie,

I tend to stay away from this category. There is an abundance of bored, housewives married to powerful guys in China who are left alone with LV bags full of money to look after the children and do whatever they desire. That said, I would not like to be caught doing one of them by the husband who loses face and decides to do something about it.

Just my POV.

OAHOAH.

I usually do some background check on them making sure that hubby is no a senior PLA, triad or a bit craze. I usually find out who their workaholic husband are and have a recent pic of them, just to be sure. They usually want more discretion than you. They don't want to screw up their fable life. Definitely they do not want to take you out shopping and all the crap that comes with bedding a 18-23 yo stunner. The crap that some 18-23yo stunner put you through is mindboggling. Most of the 30+ MILF looks great and can pass of 5-7 years younger.

Just my POV (sorry to take your tag line)

[Member #4689]

Most of the 30+ MILF looks great and can pass of 5-7 years younger.Given my recent experiences with young princesses. I would be very much interested to focus on the MILF category. But it seems difficult to approach these experienced ladies, could you give me some tips on fertile hunting grounds, methods etc, should I try my luck in bars?

Thanks for the tips!

[Mmlouie]

OAH.

I usually do some background check on them making sure that hubby is no a senior PLA, triad or a bit craze. I usually find out who their workaholic husband are and have a recent pic of them, just to be sure. They usually want more discretion than you. They don't want to screw up their fable life. Definitely they do not want to take you out shopping and all the crap that comes with bedding a 18-23 yo stunner. The crap that some 18-23yo stunner put you through is mindboggling. Most of the 30+ MILF looks great and can pass of 5-7 years younger.

Just my POV (sorry to take your tag line) Damn, totally forgotten about you and your MILFs. Step aside for the man!

Mmlouie

[Bnlee2]

Given my recent experiences with young princesses. I would be very much interested to focus on the MILF category. But it seems difficult to approach these experienced ladies, could you give me some tips on fertile hunting grounds, methods etc, should I try my luck in bars?

Thanks for the tips!Changelelu,

You will NOT find them and bars or KTVs' or sauna. I usually find them in business / social events. The great thing about this category is that they usually have more money that you and they demand discretion. These hot gals just want some attention. I few sweet words goes a long way. MMLouie can definitely tell you that I'm neither an Asian Brad Pitt or some young Asian Hunk either. I'm just a normal joe (with a few extra pounds) that knows how to charm them with a few sweet words.

[Bnlee2]

Damn, totally forgotten about you and your MILFs. Step aside for the man!

MmlouieMM,

I'm just a normal joe with a few xtra pounds. I just been lucky to find easy targets.

[Horneblower]

I posted a plea some time ago and got some nice encouragement from the brothers but no hard leads so I am back trying again, hoping that someone has the key to unlock the box.

I live in Beijing and my Chinese wife is absent much of the time. She has offered me the opportunity to find a woman to sleep with me (and sometimes us). She has presented me with two candidates but I did not like either one. Of course we'the pay the girl, house and feed her, etc and she might have to perform some other services as well, like housekeeping. Now, I want to do some 'recruiting' of my own! I think fellow members might have some thoughts that could help me and us.

Now most of the BBS girls and WGs here must be recruited from their villages and small towns. A friend of mine even met an Australian guy in HK who claimed to be a 'recruiter' but the schmuck lost the guy's business card. I would like to find a recruiter, or a trusted mamasan or papasan who can help me in my search. I know my wife would prefer a young girl, who has been trained in how to please, including massage but is not yet a WG.

Can anyone introduce a 'recruiter', or a mama or papa? Does anyone have any thoughts about if this can work?

Thanks.

[OldAsiaHand]

Changelelu,

You will NOT find them and bars or KTVs' or sauna. I usually find them in business / social events. The great thing about this category is that they usually have more money that you and they demand discretion. These hot gals just want some attention. I few sweet words goes a long way. MMLouie can definitely tell you that I'm neither an Asian Brad Pitt or some young Asian Hunk either. I'm just a normal joe (with a few extra pounds) that knows how to charm them with a few sweet words.Bnlee2,

Bravo for being so brave!

I see them all the time while conducting my business in China. They usually pull up in a brand new German luxury car and are packaged in designer clothes and jewelry. Sometimes, they even have a young duck with them, but not usually. What I worry about is that all this newfound wealth did not come from hardwork or their own business although some of them pretend to do business. Most of the time, there is a rich hubby supporting this either because he feels guilty or just does not want them bothering him since he already has a new model. That aside, most men have a double standard in China, and most rich hubbies will lose face if their wife is screwing around. I get a lot of offers but always turn them down for fear of repercussions.

It might be different if I was just a frequent visitor and did not have to stay in China long term.

Stay safe my friend!

Just my POV.

OAH

[OldAsiaHand]

Hornblower,

First of all, I envy your position.

I might look in the legit massage places. Young girls go this route because they do not want to be a WG, but it is hard work and many would rather do something easier than work in a factory or rub feet all day.

Another place to look is for factory girls. Many BBS girls I know came from the factory because they could not hack the long hours and hard work. Some even do BBS work part time to earn extra money but are not willing to be a full time BBS girl. If you find a factory girl that has been deflowered by some young bloke full of bullshit at the factory who dumped her and looking for an easier life before hitting a BBS, you may have a winner.

Just my POV.

OAH.


I posted a plea some time ago and got some nice encouragement from the brothers but no hard leads so I am back trying again, hoping that someone has the key to unlock the box.

I live in Beijing and my Chinese wife is absent much of the time. She has offered me the opportunity to find a woman to sleep with me (and sometimes us). She has presented me with two candidates but I did not like either one. Of course we'the pay the girl, house and feed her, etc and she might have to perform some other services as well, like housekeeping. Now, I want to do some 'recruiting' of my own! I think fellow members might have some thoughts that could help me and us.

Now most of the BBS girls and WGs here must be recruited from their villages and small towns. A friend of mine even met an Australian guy in HK who claimed to be a 'recruiter' but the schmuck lost the guy's business card. I would like to find a recruiter, or a trusted mamasan or papasan who can help me in my search. I know my wife would prefer a young girl, who has been trained in how to please, including massage but is not yet a WG.

Can anyone introduce a 'recruiter', or a mama or papa? Does anyone have any thoughts about if this can work?

Thanks.

[Mock A Bee]

Mmlouie,

I tend to stay away from this category. There is an abundance of bored, housewives married to powerful guys in China who are left alone with LV bags full of money to look after the children and do whatever they desire. That said, I would not like to be caught doing one of them by the husband who loses face and decides to do something about it.

Just my POV.

OAHI agree with OAH.

MILF's can be dangerous for obvious reasons. However, there are all kinds of 30+ single girls who are what is known as "leftover women". They are comfortable with the fact that they may not ever get married. Many are office girls with careers and some are business owners.

These girls are prime targets for me. Many only want TLC, and there are many types to choose from. I target the ones who are not after anything but TLC. I avoid the materialistic ones and they are almost always very easy maintenance. Inexpensive simple gifts go a really long way with these girls. Many of these girls also insist on paying for dinner and drinks, or take turns paying.

The best part is, they are usually very GFE.

MAB

[OldAsiaHand]

these girls can be dangerous in another way. I think all these girls would like to get married and have children. Case in point: I have one freebie that I have been seeing for 4-5 years. She is now 36 and thinks she is running out of time. She is putting pressure on me to shit or get off the pot. Obviously, there is nothing I can do about it given my circumstances of which she is aware. I just hope that she does not take matters into her own hands and does anything stupid and / or desperate.

Best to cut them loose soon enough to avoid this dilemna.

Just my POV.

OAH.


I agree with OAH.

MILF's can be dangerous for obvious reasons. However, there are all kinds of 30+ single girls who are what is known as "leftover women". They are comfortable with the fact that they may not ever get married. Many are office girls with careers and some are business owners.

These girls are prime targets for me. Many only want TLC, and there are many types to choose from. I target the ones who are not after anything but TLC. I avoid the materialistic ones and they are almost always very easy maintenance. Inexpensive simple gifts go a really long way with these girls. Many of these girls also insist on paying for dinner and drinks, or take turns paying.

The best part is, they are usually very GFE.

MAB

[SE Asia Joe]

Bnlee2,

Bravo for being so brave!

I see them all the time while conducting my business in China. They usually pull up in a brand new German luxury car and are packaged in designer clothes and jewelry. Sometimes, they even have a young duck with them, but not usually. What I worry about is that all this newfound wealth did not come from hardwork or their own business although some of them pretend to do business. Most of the time, there is a rich hubby supporting this either because he feels guilty or just does not want them bothering him since he already has a new model. That aside, most men have a double standard in China, and most rich hubbies will lose face if their wife is screwing around. I get a lot of offers but always turn them down for fear of repercussions.

It might be different if I was just a frequent visitor and did not have to stay in China long term.

Stay safe my friend!

Just my POV.

OAHThe old risk to reward equation!

Me-thinks the reason Bnlee has got the balls to go after these wives / mistresses of the powerful is that these women are usually much better turned out than their counterpart with Laogongs of lesser stature!

Let's face it. Powerful rich guys do NOT have ugly, lousily dressed wives / mistresses!

Just my. Yeah MY. POV!

LOL!

SEAJ

[Mock A Bee]

[QUOTE=OldAsiaHand; 1180867]these girls can be dangerous in another way. I think all these girls would like to get married and have children. Case in point: I have one freebie that I have been seeing for 4-5 years. She is now 36 and thinks she is running out of time. She is putting pressure on me to shit or get off the pot. Obviously, there is nothing I can do about it given my circumstances of which she is aware. I just hope that she does not take matters into her own hands and does anything stupid and / or desperate.

Best to cut them loose soon enough to avoid this dilemna.

Just my POV.

OAH. [/QUOTE.]

OAH, I agree. When they get a little too close for comfort, yes, you MUST cut them loose asap, keep it clean, or sh*t happens. This is also why I like to keep low cost pro-friends on the back burner in case a no fuss no muss quickie is called for. Strictly business. There is a reason saunas are popular in China.

As a precaution, when it comes to my single "leftover" girls, I try to size up the girls pretty well, and make sure they know the program. We are strictly friends with benefits, that's all, don't expect anything more. Again, keep it all clean.

[Loveasiangirls]

these girls can be dangerous in another way. I think all these girls would like to get married and have children. Case in point: I have one freebie that I have been seeing for 4-5 years. She is now 36 and thinks she is running out of time. She is putting pressure on me to shit or get off the pot. Obviously, there is nothing I can do about it given my circumstances of which she is aware. I just hope that she does not take matters into her own hands and does anything stupid and / or desperate.

Best to cut them loose soon enough to avoid this dilemna.

Just my POV.

OAH.After all these years she must think she is your GF. Less pressure with the divorced ones.

[Bnlee2]

The old risk to reward equation!

Me-thinks the reason Bnlee has got the balls to go after these wives / mistresses of the powerful is that these women are usually much better turned out than their counterpart with Laogongs of lesser stature!

Let's face it. Powerful rich guys do NOT have ugly, lousily dressed wives / mistresses!

Just my. Yeah MY. POV!

LOL!

SEAJGuys.

I'm actually careful with my prey. I make sure I do some recon on their hubby. I try not to make this a permanent thing. Several in their early thirties have their biological clock ticking and wants my seeds. For me, there is less chance of getting discover since some of you guys that I have met knows that I'm asian and the kid will not look suspicious. To date, I do not think I have gotten any of them pregnant. In OAH case, it would be embarass for the freebie to pop out a blue eye kid. In all cases the longest I stayed in relations with one is almost three years. I tend to move on after it start to get a bit sticky.

The part that I like is the low maintenance $$$, and in most situation very little with the exception of few cheap gifts. Most of the time when we have dinner, it is in the privacy of a hotel room. I love it when they care more about discretion than you do. GFE to the max and cost almost $0.

SEAJ. I just checked, my original balls are still intact. Thanks for worry about my welfare.

Bnlee

[Mmlouie]

To date, I do not think I have gotten any of them pregnant.As far as you know. LOL!

Mmlouie

[Onadlos]

it would be embarass for the freebie to pop out a blue eye kidActually it would not, that would be like the most wanted kid in the country.

I mean I know what you mean but the example was not good, blue eyes is the one thing asian kids can never have even if their daddy does.

[Marty47]

I have freind I see when I get to SH.

She is married, but separated, lives with an Australian guy, but gets out to see me. Figure that one.


Guys.

I'm actually careful with my prey. I make sure I do some recon on their hubby. I try not to make this a permanent thing. Several in their early thirties have their biological clock ticking and wants my seeds. For me, there is less chance of getting discover since some of you guys that I have met knows that I'm asian and the kid will not look suspicious. To date, I do not think I have gotten any of them pregnant. In OAH case, it would be embarass for the freebie to pop out a blue eye kid. In all cases the longest I stayed in relations with one is almost three years. I tend to move on after it start to get a bit sticky.

The part that I like is the low maintenance $$$, and in most situation very little with the exception of few cheap gifts. Most of the time when we have dinner, it is in the privacy of a hotel room. I love it when they care more about discretion than you do. GFE to the max and cost almost $0.

SEAJ. I just checked, my original balls are still intact. Thanks for worry about my welfare.

Bnlee

[Loveasiangirls]

Just a reminder to all that Saturday is Chinese Valentine's day. Even just a sweet SMS could be enough to make your freebie or other regular happy and pay you back in some way next time you meet.

[Rob Jacobs]

Hey guys, have been lurking around the forum for a few months now. I have noticed that there seems to be the general consensus that Chinese men and mandarin speakers have an advantage, so here is my question. I am planning a trip to BJ in the next few months (pending work schedule) , and I am Chinese and can speak mandarin, but since I live in the States, so I am not up to date with any of the lingo or any of the locations. I was wondering if anybody had any advice for somebody in this relatively unique situation, or if anybody who is in BJ long-term would mind showing me the ropes or hang out when I can get there (PM me)? Thanks for any advice you guys can offer,

[Admirer007]

For those who work or plan to work in China several months a year or shorter, my advice is: find a er nai or second wife. For a reasonable price and living expence, you can live with a woman and get all the joy of sex. China women are obediant and she will treat you like a kind. Do no go to brothal, hair salon, call girls and freebies on the street. They are dangerous and under strict police survailace these days, and you do not know she is healthy or not. I had good experience. If you want more info. Please write to me by private message.

[AsnDragon]

Admirer,

Please do share your experience with an Er Nai? As I have heard Er Nai are very troublesome and they don't come cheap these days, especially if you are located in a large city like Shanghai, Beijing etc.

These days Er Nai have very high expectations! It's not as easy as it was a few years back, these days they won't even want to be with you unless you pay them 20, 000-30, 000 RMB a month in addition to paying for their rent and some other personal bills as well. I think most guys here monger for the variety. So if you have an Er Nai, it just shackles you down to only be with one woman, it's no different than getting a second wife who's going to nag and take away all the fun of what mongering is all about. Unless you have sources and contacts of pretty girls willing to be an Er Nai without the high costs, expectations and commitment, then please do share with us all.

AsnDragon.


For those who work or plan to work in China several months a year or shorter, my advice is: find a er nai or second wife. For a reasonable price and living expence, you can live with a woman and get all the joy of sex. China women are obediant and she will treat you like a kind. Do no go to brothal, hair salon, call girls and freebies on the street. They are dangerous and under strict police survailace these days, and you do not know she is healthy or not. I had good experience. If you want more info. Please write to me by private message.

[Clean Gene]

Admirer,

Please do share your experience with an Er Nai? As I have heard Er Nai are very troublesome and they don't come cheap these days, especially if you are located in a large city like Shanghai, Beijing etc.

These days Er Nai have very high expectations! It's not as easy as it was a few years back, these days they won't even want to be with you unless you pay them 20, 000-30, 000 RMB a month in addition to paying for their rent and some other personal bills as well. I think most guys here monger for the variety. So if you have an Er Nai, it just shackles you down to only be with one woman, it's no different than getting a second wife who's going to nag and take away all the fun of what mongering is all about. Unless you have sources and contacts of pretty girls willing to be an Er Nai without the high costs, expectations and commitment, then please do share with us all.

AsnDragon.Reasonable 'Er Nai' are more easily found in the country-side near a larger city. I do not usually hire one as I have a young man here in Hefei, who can provide me with young country girls. But I have acquaintances who hire young country women as 'maids'. These are usually married women 25 to 35 who will cook and do house-work during the week and return to their husbands and kids on week ends. They usually give extra 'benefits. If not to one's liking, get another one.

[Bnlee2]

You guys are making this "er tai" subject way to complex. I spend about 30% of my time travelling to and from China. At times I do spend more time than I should and can get a bit lonely. Going to KTV, bbs, sauna can add up.

I found a better way of finding the company of lonely trophy housewives that needs discretion and are usually quite loaded $$$. Bottom line, great GFE, low cost, no need to take them shopping (since they do not want to be seen in public with another guy) and Total discretion. Yes really. Easy no hassle and you get more pu$$why than you any guy can handle. Usually, they are slightly older. 25-35 and hey since I'm asian, if they get pregnant with some of my swimmers, it would not be so obvious. This age group is great, they are very experienced sexually and I usually get my brain fu&k out after each session.

When they get a bit sticky, I just dump them.

BTW, I usually do a background check to make sure that their wandering husband are not more crazier than them or a senior member of the PLA or Triad. That, I cannot deal with.

Just my two rmb on this complex matter. Hey guys enjoy the beauty and pu$$why in China.

[AsnDragon]

BnLee,

It must have been almost 2-3 years that I've been so curious as to how you get these er tai. I mean I really need to see you in action with these trophy wives. They way you describe it just so sexually exciting. It's almost this whole forbidden fruit type of conquest that turns me on. I always ask the same question as to how you know that their husbands are not some crazy well connected government or triad guy, but you don't ever seem to be too concerned over all of this or perhaps you believe that your sources are correct.

Now, I've asked before, and I'll ask again, but you must be a tall good looking lad in order to bag these trophy wives. I don't see how you can have such high probability of success with these trophy wives. Is it your looks, or you are just really smooth in your game. Or do all of these trophy wives cheat all the time anyways?

I don't care what age the trophy wives are, if they are between 25-35 (and I know these rich trophy wives are hot no matter what age they are) I would be definitely interested.

What kind of events do you attend to order to narrow down on your target?

I am impressed and also curious as to how you get all of these trophy wives.

AsnDragon.


You guys are making this "er tai" subject way to complex. I spend about 30% of my time travelling to and from China. At times I do spend more time than I should and can get a bit lonely. Going to KTV, bbs, sauna can add up.

I found a better way of finding the company of lonely trophy housewives that needs discretion and are usually quite loaded $$$. Bottom line, great GFE, low cost, no need to take them shopping (since they do not want to be seen in public with another guy) and Total discretion. Yes really. Easy no hassle and you get more pu$$why than you any guy can handle. Usually, they are slightly older. 25-35 and hey since I'm asian, if they get pregnant with some of my swimmers, it would not be so obvious. This age group is great, they are very experienced sexually and I usually get my brain fu&k out after each session.

When they get a bit sticky, I just dump them.

BTW, I usually do a background check to make sure that their wandering husband are not more crazier than them or a senior member of the PLA or Triad. That, I cannot deal with.

Just my two rmb on this complex matter. Hey guys enjoy the beauty and pu$$why in China.

[AsnDragon]

Clean Gene,

I think the er-nai that you are talking about is different from what BnLee is talking about. The ones that you are talking about is just some countryside housewife that comes out to work as a housekeeper and you nail them for giving them something additional. But the Er Nai that BnLee is talking about is some rich guy's trophy wife. That is a completely different game. Bagging some guy's trophy wife is in a completely different ballpark here. We are talking about women whom are more refined, sophisticated and elegant. It would be a completely different experience, So that's why BNLee says that he gets a real Mind f*ck after each session because they don't just physically stimulate you, they stimulate you emotionally too because these are women who can carry on a deep conversation about life etc.

AsnDragon.


Reasonable 'Er Nai' are more easily found in the country-side near a larger city. I do not usually hire one as I have a young man here in Hefei, who can provide me with young country girls. But I have acquaintances who hire young country women as 'maids'. These are usually married women 25 to 35 who will cook and do house-work during the week and return to their husbands and kids on week ends. They usually give extra 'benefits. If not to one's liking, get another one.

[Bnlee2]

AsnDragon.

I will try to keep this short and answer more in detail via PM if you need more details.

Clean Gene is somewhat correct in his analysis of the er nai / trophy housewives that I bagg. They are quite sophisticated and are married to guys that work literally 24/7/365. They spent there money showing off that they can have the trophy mistress but once they get them, after several month or a year, they get bored and party to find another one and continue to pay or support their mistress to show that they got the $$$ to do it. I just find it a total waste of money. It is the whole forbidden fruit conquest. I usually have sources to do a detail check on the guys just to be sure. I am careful.

I have met a few ISGer and they can attest that I am no "Brad Pitt", maybe a "Choy Yun Fat" with a few extra pound and a few extra grey hair to boot. It is easier to connect with this group of women. The trick is to understand them. Because they are kept women, they are usually very lonely with a big fat wallet. Most of them wants attention but can not have it. I usually open up a conversation by using a few choice words to see how they react and to see what I need to say to her next. I do use some charm on them. Sometimes being an ABC with limited mandarin is actually an advantage to me.

If they are known to be having an affair with another man, their boyfriend / husband will cut off the financial support. They are human like anyone else and thrive on social and physical needs. That is why they want more discretion than you. Of course they do NOT need you to take them shopping. They have money. They just want companionship but need to make sure that it is discreet.

As for where I meet them, I usually meet them at social functions where some of these guys takes their wives, mistress / gf to. It could be at a dinner, wedding (yes, weddings) , Holiday dinners, definitely NOT at a KTV or BBS.

I hope this answer some basic issues.


BnLee,

It must have been almost 2-3 years that I've been so curious as to how you get these er tai. I mean I really need to see you in action with these trophy wives. They way you describe it just so sexually exciting. It's almost this whole forbidden fruit type of conquest that turns me on. I always ask the same question as to how you know that their husbands are not some crazy well connected government or triad guy, but you don't ever seem to be too concerned over all of this or perhaps you believe that your sources are correct.

Now, I've asked before, and I'll ask again, but you must be a tall good looking lad in order to bag these trophy wives. I don't see how you can have such high probability of success with these trophy wives. Is it your looks, or you are just really smooth in your game. Or do all of these trophy wives cheat all the time anyways?

I don't care what age the trophy wives are, if they are between 25-35 (and I know these rich trophy wives are hot no matter what age they are) I would be definitely interested.

What kind of events do you attend to order to narrow down on your target?

I am impressed and also curious as to how you get all of these trophy wives.

AsnDragon.

[Mmlouie]

I have met a few ISGer and they can attest that I am no "Brad Pitt", maybe a "Choy Yun Fat" with a few extra pound and a few extra grey hair to boot.Asian Harrison Ford or George Clooney perhaps! Chinese women are not into looks however, just IMHO and for what it is worth. It is the same how Caucasian look at beauty verses to how Chinese look at as beauty.

Mmlouie

[AsnDragon]

Asian Harrison Ford or George Clooney perhaps! Chinese women are not into looks however, just IMHO and for what it is worth. It is the same how Caucasian look at beauty verses to how Chinese look at as beauty.

MmlouieMmLouie,

I don't really think that is true, that Chinese women are not that into looks. It may be true, if they were trying to find a sponsor or a sugar daddy, for the money aspects, sure a girl could over look many external flaws of a man's face for monetary gains.

But in BnLee's situation where he's out there to attract these trophy wives and take them to bed, he's got to be somewhat attractive physically in order for a trophy wife to want to be with him. Sure I'm sure BnLee also has a charming personality and that helps him a whole lot in getting these girls as well. But physically he's got to be good looking in order for girls to want to be with him. He's already concluded his a Chow Yun fat, and he's a good looking guy who's tall.

Just my opinion.

AsnDragon

[Mmlouie]

Sure I'm sure BnLee also has a charming personality and that helps him a whole lot in getting these girls as well. But physically he's got to be good looking in order for girls to want to be with him. He's already concluded his a Chow Yun fat, and he's a good looking guy who's tall.You are certainly entitle to your own opinion but we are talking about two different situation. You are speaking about sponsor and sugar daddy and I was not. But as far as BnLee's MILF mistress; is discretion.

BnLee have a charming personality? LOL! Sorry BnLee, you might be Asian Harrison Ford but that's about it my friend but I am sure you have your own ways with the ladies. No pun intended!

Mmlouie

[AsnDragon]

Mmlouie,

I don't think you are getting my point. The point I am making is that you have to be somewhat good looking to get these mistresses. They aren't going to be attracted to some ugly looking, overweight guy who stutters just because the guy can be "discreet" about their affair.

Now Asian Harrison Ford would be a good looking guy, so you prove my point. In the end you still have to be somewhat good looking to attract these MILF Mistresses.

AsnDragon.


You are certainly entitle to your own opinion but we are talking about two different situation. You are speaking about sponsor and sugar daddy and I was not. But as far as BnLee's MILF mistress; is discretion.

BnLee have a charming personality? LOL! Sorry BnLee, you might be Asian Harrison Ford but that's about it my friend but I am sure you have your own ways with the ladies. No pun intended!

Mmlouie

[Mmlouie]

Mmlouie,

I don't think you are getting my point. The point I am making is that you have to be somewhat good looking to get these mistresses. They aren't going to be attracted to some ugly looking, overweight guy who stutters just because the guy can be "discreet" about their affair.

Now Asian Harrison Ford would be a good looking guy, so you prove my point. In the end you still have to be somewhat good looking to attract these MILF Mistresses.

AsnDragon.Absolutely not and only in my opinion and for what it is worth. Since I am Chinese, I know that as a fact but you are certainly allow to have your own opinions and conclusion. As I mentioned; everyone got their own opinion about beauty and I don't think Harrison Ford is a good looking guy.

[Bnlee2]

Mmlouie,

I don't think you are getting my point. The point I am making is that you have to be somewhat good looking to get these mistresses. They aren't going to be attracted to some ugly looking, overweight guy who stutters just because the guy can be "discreet" about their affair.

Now Asian Harrison Ford would be a good looking guy, so you prove my point. In the end you still have to be somewhat good looking to attract these MILF Mistresses.

AsnDragon.Mmlouie / AsnDragon.

The key to my success is a combination of discretion and charm. Just remember, most of these gals can not go back and hang out with their old friends. They are actually very lonely and starving for attention, that is the real key. They know that I come to China business often but lives in the US with a wife and family. I am not out to wreck their marriage and they are not out to wreck mines either. My financial concern is of little value to them, these gals have money from their hubby and they want to protect it. Bottom line is that they do get horny and a dil&do just can not satisfy them. They do need to have this fulfilled. I try not to make each situation a long term relationship. Most of the time I just keep it short, no more that 18 months max and just move on to the next target. Sometimes I see them at other social events and if a friend or their husband introduce me to them, they pretend to have met me for the first time and tries to just add a smile to the introduction. Bottom line is that these gals do offer extreme GFE and sometimes do get their kinks out in private to you and that is somewhat mind blowing. A great bennie is that a few present and past gals found out my birthdate and I have gotten some very nice presents to boot.

A little charm will go a long way. As for looks, I'm just one notches above "butt ugly", and I wear elevator shoes to make me look tall like "Choy yun Fat" and have a talented tongue to boot.

Just my two rmb on this.

[Mmlouie]

Mmlouie / AsnDragon.

The key to my success is a combination of discretion and charm.

Just my two rmb on this.BnLee, you don't need to tell me how to use my charm. I have more then enough of my share, my problem is not getting them but rather how to get rid of them.

Mmlouie

[Clean Gene]

Clean Gene,

I think the er-nai that you are talking about is different from what BnLee is talking about. The ones that you are talking about is just some countryside housewife that comes out to work as a housekeeper and you nail them for giving them something additional. But the Er Nai that BnLee is talking about is some rich guy's trophy wife. That is a completely different game. Bagging some guy's trophy wife is in a completely different ballpark here. We are talking about women whom are more refined, sophisticated and elegant. It would be a completely different experience, So that's why BNLee says that he gets a real Mind f*ck after each session because they don't just physically stimulate you, they stimulate you emotionally too because these are women who can carry on a deep conversation about life etc.

AsnDragon.It's not altogether a bad idea to have a healthy country woman at home. She keeps you comfortable and well groomed. She shops for the food and takes care of the laundry. This allows you to enjoy fine company in a calm manner, ie without being forever on the make. Furthermore I am not sure that I have ever succeeded with a 'trophy' without her first choosing me.

Best of luck.

[Horneblower]

It's not altogether a bad idea to have a healthy country woman at home. She keeps you comfortable and well groomed. She shops for the food and takes care of the laundry. This allows you to enjoy fine company in a calm manner, ie without being forever on the make. Furthermore I am not sure that I have ever succeeded with a 'trophy' without her first choosing me.

Best of luck.I agree about the virtues of having a country woman at home BUT the big question is: how do you find one? Aren't we talking about a really poor and remote village? Some foreigner can't just go there and say that they're looking for a "housekeeper" who's 19 and beautiful. Are there agents?

Interested in the brothers' thoughts.

[Great Muta]

Does anyone know any free dating sites in China? Particularly any where you can send messages without paying or giving out any phone numbers. I love Chinese girls but am having trouble finding any online.

[Gualtier Malde]

Does anyone know any free dating sites in China? Particularly any where you can send messages without paying or giving out any phone numbers. I love Chinese girls but am having trouble finding any online.Tagged. Com and Badoo. Com (at least the latter requires VPN inside China) are free. They are dating sites, not sex sites. But plenty of girls on there are seeking freebie style, girlfriend sex.

If you read and write Chinese I'm sure there are other domestic ones.

GM

[Tallish]

Tagged. Com and Badoo. Com (at least the latter requires VPN inside China) are free. They are dating sites, not sex sites. But plenty of girls on there are seeking freebie style, girlfriend sex.

If you read and write Chinese I'm sure there are other domestic ones.

GMYou can also try using QQ chat, there are lot educated Chinese online willing to do business with you, and may get good domestic insight.

[Tallish]

You can also try using QQ chat, there are lot educated Chinese online willing to do business with you, and may get good domestic insight.But QQ chat if you accept any image / link from unknown, watchout for spam, and computer controlling hacks etc.

[OldAsiaHand]

I was chatting online with a Chinese girl from Jilin now living and working in Hong Kong. She is a highly educated, professional, single, lady with a good job.

Being from N. China, she was very straightforward. Without thinking about it, she said, and I quote,"I am not so desperate to have to date a westerner." Afterwards, she said she should not have said that and she tried to soften the blow a bit by explaining that some Chinese girls do like foreigners but this does not apply to her.

I believe that the message she conveyed does apply to the vast majority of normal Chinese girls. All things being equal, most prefer to be with locals or overseas Chinese, not foreigners. There are always exceptions to every rule, but, IMHO, this only applies to a very small minority of regular girls in China. This is why you see so few Chinese girls with western guys compared to The Philippines and Thailand for example.

One can argue that it is because of language and / or cultural differences but the bottom line is that most Chinese girls go for westerners out of desperation e. G. They have no other choice or have ulterior motives such as money, your foreign passport, etc.

I will never forget about one case I heard about from a Visa Officer at a Consulate in China. There was a case of a Chinese girl that went through the whole process of an extended relationship and visa application with one poor fellow only to bolt immediately after passing through USA immigration in LA with him.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Bnlee2]

I was chatting online with a Chinese girl from Jilin now living and working in Hong Kong. She is a highly educated, professional, single, lady with a good job.

Being from N. China, she was very straightforward. Without thinking about it, she said, and I quote,"I am not so desperate to have to date a westerner." Afterwards, she said she should not have said that and she tried to soften the blow a bit by explaining that some Chinese girls do like foreigners but this does not apply to her.

I believe that the message she conveyed does apply to the vast majority of normal Chinese girls. All things being equal, most prefer to be with locals or overseas Chinese, not foreigners. There are always exceptions to every rule, but, IMHO, this only applies to a very small minority of regular girls in China. This is why you see so few Chinese girls with western guys compared to The Philippines and Thailand for example.

One can argue that it is because of language and / or cultural differences but the bottom line is that most Chinese girls go for westerners out of desperation e. G. They have no other choice or have ulterior motives such as money, your foreign passport, etc.

I will never forget about one case I heard about from a Visa Officer at a Consulate in China. There was a case of a Chinese girl that went through the whole process of an extended relationship and visa application with one poor fellow only to bolt immediately after passing through USA immigration in LA with him.

Just my POV.

OAHOAH.

Most girls still cares about the "face" and "whispers" that how they are perceive among their family and friends. Dating westerner, can imply that they maybe WG. Dating an ABC is still much more preferable in the eyes of their friends and family. As you know, I get a fair amount of offers from some of these gals (especially the one on the fringe of working as a wg at night) to take them as an "er tai / mistress. I usually just smile. I got a better deal as you know from other sources.

As for the girls that bolted right after passing immigrations in LA, I send my condolences to the poor fella.

I found my niche in playing for minimal cost.

Just my two rmb on this.

[Mmlouie]

I will never forget about one case I heard about from a Visa Officer at a Consulate in China. There was a case of a Chinese girl that went through the whole process of an extended relationship and visa application with one poor fellow only to bolt immediately after passing through USA immigration in LA with him.

OAHThat's pretty much the norm.

Mmlouie

[OldAsiaHand]

As you know, I get a fair amount of offers from some of these gals (especially the one on the fringe of working as a wg at night) to take them as an "er tai / mistress.Bnlee2,

The girls I am talking about have absolutely no intention of working as a WG at night, nor being a mistress. They are normal, single, middle class, girls with regular jobs and careers.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Meiguoguizi]

I was chatting online with a Chinese girl from Jilin now living and working in Hong Kong. She is a highly educated, professional, single, lady with a good job.

Being from N. China, she was very straightforward. Without thinking about it, she said, and I quote,"I am not so desperate to have to date a westerner." Afterwards, she said she should not have said that and she tried to soften the blow a bit by explaining that some Chinese girls do like foreigners but this does not apply to her.

I believe that the message she conveyed does apply to the vast majority of normal Chinese girls. All things being equal, most prefer to be with locals or overseas Chinese, not foreigners. There are always exceptions to every rule, but, IMHO, this only applies to a very small minority of regular girls in China.

OAHIn my opinion, this is certainly true. The question then is: how to locate the exceptions?

My observation among college students is that there is a subset of students who are in love with western 'culture', generally media, and have an attraction to everything Western, including men. They routinely speak at least some English and are anxious to improve it. They will frequent restaurants, bars, etc, that attract Westerners. This does not include 'working girl bars'. It helps if these places are in areas near college campuses.

If you are young and / or handsome you just have to locate the places. If you are older your approach requires patience, cultural sensitivity, discretion and 'indirect' money in the form of entertainment and shopping.

[PlayaPan]

I've now encountered Chinese women in several countries. (I do not live in China.) A lot of them come across as very genuine, interested in enduring relationships, marriage and green card. I have now fallen for one of these in a big way. I think she would make a great wife. Clearly the green card and jump to a better lifestyle are a big incentive for her. She is 18 years younger than me. I wonder whether she would commit to me permanently. Views, anyone?Not sure if troll or just stupid.

[Clean Gene]

I agree about the virtues of having a country woman at home BUT the big question is: how do you find one? Aren't we talking about a really poor and remote village? Some foreigner can't just go there and say that they're looking for a "housekeeper" who's 19 and beautiful. Are there agents?

Interested in the brothers' thoughts.I've not had luck with agencies. Women want to often extra favors.

My last housekeeper has been passed to me by an acquaintance. My present one was a girlfriend a couple of decades ago. We don't have sex. But she gives BJ now and then to get didi up.

I'll write later how I find lady friends.

CG

[Onadlos]

"I am not so desperate to have to date a westerner." Afterwards, she said she should not have said that and she tried to soften the blow a bit by explaining that some Chinese girls do like foreigners but this does not apply to her.

I believe that the message she conveyed does apply to the vast majority of normal Chinese girls. All things being equal, most prefer to be with locals or overseas Chinese, not foreigners. There are always exceptions to every rule, but, IMHO, this only applies to a very small minority of regular girls in China.

OAHwhile i agree for th most part with what you say, i believe that few single chinese girls are actually out of reach if you know how to proceed.
See it's common, in China, to criticise girls who date foreigners and dismiss them as being ugly, desperate, uneducated etc.
As a result, Chinese society managed to implement the idea that real nice girls prefer Chinese guys, and foreigners only date ugly stupid ones.

SO whenever you speak to a girl, she never feels a part of these "bad seeds", she is of course different, special, and doesn't care about foreigners.

Now believe me when I say that whatever bullshit they say to try to convince themselves, they all end up in your bed regardless. Of course some girls show no interest at all in foreigners, but they are not that many. Usually when I smile to a girl in the street, she smiles back (maybe it would be different if I was old and fat)., and once you figure out a way to start a conversation and isolate her from her other chinese friends (which definitely is the hardest part), things can turn to your advantage.

There is basically little difference between a regular Chinese girl and the one you end up with, except that regular girls don't speak english so foreigners are de facto out of their league, so they don't even consider them as an option. If any girl starts talking about Chinese guys being nicer and better at understanding their "true heart", just listen for a couple of hours and try to have her talk about her dad, you 'll pretty quickly make her see that there is a contradiction between her unrealistic expectations and the real image she has of Chinese husbands, therefore the idea that was implemented that foreign husbands are "no good" will pretty quickly become "but on the other hand Chinese men are such pigs, after marriage they never help at home and spend their free time out drinking or at the KTV".

More often than not, their dad ignores them (usually not involved the children's education) , which leaves an emotional weakness that you can adress easily. For example, one way to do it that always stuns me, is by using the long forgotten occidental art of cheesy lines. Cheesy lines don't work here anymore since the 1960's. Well in China, it works and goes a long way, since girls get addicted pretty wuickly to having someone tellling them nice things. She might smile at first, but believe me, they love it, and the more you say it, the more she starts to get addicted, soon enough she will stop seeing you as a foreigner and start seeing you as the nicest person around her. If you don't believe me, just listen to the amount of crap a French guy says on a date with a chinese girl, it's mind blowing ! Yeah ok, you can smile, but let's face it, they get the girls. They just know how to tell them what they want to hear.

Believe me, once you make her believe she is so special, and manage to maintain a certain level of tension (if you become to nice it dosn't work; you have to play good cop bad cop) you create a bond between you and her, she'll become addicted pretty quickly and forget about her local friends "who have been waiting for her since high school". Even if she was a "traditionnal girl" "no speak english" at the beggining.

[Pinaypounder]

[QUOTE=Onadlos; 1225756]while I agree for th most part with what you say, I believe that few single Chinese girls are actually out of reach if you know how to proceed.

See it's common, in China, to criticise girls who date foreigners and dismiss them as being ugly, desperate, uneducated etc.

As a result, Chinese society managed to implement the idea that real nice girls prefer Chinese guys, and foreigners only date ugly stupid ones.

Thanks for this. I am headed to China soon and will spend 4 months there net year working and I was seeking ithis kind of imput. All women and all humans or 99. 8 are indeed centered around their hearts and the need for love and acceptance.

Every girl wants their father to love them and to more importantly take care of them. Hello, that is where us "older established " gentleman can shine.

It costs nothing to compliment and their traditional ways alone make them superior to Western Women. So it all boils down to my manners in College, smile and wave and be the big brother to all women and you won't sleep alone much.

Good job

[Gualtier Malde]

. Usually when I smile to a girl in the street, she smiles back (maybe it would be different if I was old and fat). .Nope, I can attest, even if you are old and fat, she smiles back.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post. Compliments do go a very long way. Also, oral sex done well will addict most of them to you. They may tell you they don't want it at first (its a cultural thing) , but they sure are happy to get it once you get past that small barrier (most really do want it even if they say "don't") , and it will be a primary reason that they want to see you again.

GM.

[Loveasiangirls]

[QUOTE=Onadlos; 1225756]while I agree for th most part with what you say, I believe that few single Chinese girls are actually out of reach if you know how to proceed.

See it's common, in China, to criticise girls who date foreigners and dismiss them as being ugly, desperate, uneducated etc.

As a result, Chinese society managed to implement the idea that real nice girls prefer Chinese guys, and foreigners only date ugly stupid ones.

Thanks for this. I am headed to China soon and will spend 4 months there net year working and I was seeking ithis kind of imput. All women and all humans or 99. 8 are indeed centered around their hearts and the need for love and acceptance.

Every girl wants their father to love them and to more importantly take care of them. Hello, that is where us "older established " gentleman can shine.

It costs nothing to compliment and their traditional ways alone make them superior to Western Women. So it all boils down to my manners in College, smile and wave and be the big brother to all women and you won't sleep alone much.

Good jobHa! Ha! You make it sound like you are an expert. Why is it that your other post under China is seeking advice saying you have zero experience with Chinese girls?

[Gualtier Malde]

Ha! Ha! You make it sound like you are an expert. Why is it that your other post under China is seeking advice saying you have zero experience with Chinese girls?LAG, I think that was poor quote editing on his part. About half of his post was a quote that was not properly identified. His text starts about halfway down the post.

Pinaypounder, suggest you preview your reports before submitting.

GM.

[ShangHangin]

Also, oral sex done well will addict most of them to you. They may tell you they don't want it at first (its a cultural thing) , but they sure are happy to get it once you get past that small barrier (most really do want it even if they say "don't") , and it will be a primary reason that they want to see you again.

GM.GM,

I could not agree more. Recently had one massage girl I do take out with who texted me to hook up. When we met, she basically stripped and demanded I go down on her. Previously, she was of the "no, don't" variety, but now a convert. I have had many like that.

SH

[Blacklisted]

I agree with this post pretty much. I think oral sex is less of a hook for the girls than a few sweet words and since I know you GM, I can attest you give them those as well as the oral sex bit! .

[Gualtier Malde]

I agree with this post pretty much. I think oral sex is less of a hook for the girls than a few sweet words and since I know you GM, I can attest you give them those as well as the oral sex bit! .You are surely right about the hook of sweet words, BL! And you are the master (it helps that you know a helluva lot more Chinese than I do!)

GM

[SE Asia Joe]

If you guys don't mind. Another take on this question as to DATY and the Chinese WG's.

Ok, yes DATY had not been "popular" amongst Chinese in the past; most Chinese guys just will not go down on their gals, civvie or WG's, as to a Chinese, such act lowers the status of the male and is just too much subjugation to their manly pride.

And thus the low (er) prevalence of afficianadoes to the art of cunningulus in China, at least up to now.

Then take into consideration the very professional guile of WG's.

WG's knows that the most effective "hook" they can have on a guy is when the guy himself feels that he is "the Man" to her; that if the John thinks that he's "proven" himself to be the BEST lover that the gal ever had, that he's going to come back time and time again. It's just the Male pride in all of us males.

Well, what's more convenient than allowing a guy to DATY, feign extreme and "At Last" satisfaction, whilst telling the John that she's NEVER had such a perfect lover.

And then to have him become HER slave?

LOL.

SEAJ

[Freepeaks]

Well, what's more convenient than allowing a guy to DATY, feign extreme and "At Last" satisfaction, whilst telling the John that she's NEVER had such a perfect lover.

And then to have him become HER slave?

LOL.

SEAJJust not buying that. Too many girls are very uncomfortable with that area not being 'clean' as they have been told for 18+ years. So the idea.

That now they use that to slave a guy. SEAJ. Really.

But there are more girls that are into having an orgasm rather than just having sex to appease the guy. More aggressive, more demanding.

Wanting to come that is if they like you. If they don't you can expect the dead fish.

[Freepeaks]

try to have her talk about her dad, you 'll pretty quickly make her see that there is a contradiction between her unrealistic expectations and the real image she has of Chinese husbands, therefore the idea that was implemented that foreign husbands are "no good" will pretty quickly become "but on the other hand Chinese men are such pigs, after marriage they never help at home and spend their free time out drinking or at the KTV".

More often than not, their dad ignores them (usually not involved the children's education) , which leaves an emotional weakness that you can adress easily. For example, one way to do it that always stuns me, is by using the long forgotten occidental art of cheesy lines. Cheesy lines don't work here anymore since the 1960's. Well in China, it works and goes a long way, since girls get addicted pretty wuickly to having someone tellling them nice things. She might smile at first, but believe me, they love it, and the more you say it, the more she starts to get addicted, soon enough she will stop seeing you as a foreigner and start seeing you as the nicest person around her. If you don't believe me, just listen to the amount of crap a French guy says on a date with a Chinese girl, it's mind blowing! Yeah ok, you can smile, but let's face it, they get the girls. They just know how to tell them what they want to hear.Ok so now let's ask the question.

Does anyone know a single WG (or Chinese girl civi) that has a good close relationship with their father. Most WGs clearly do not and are much closer to their mothers with often distant fathers or missing fathers. Having spoken to a few, they seem to talk of their mother, sisters, but rarely brothers and almost never fathers. Recently a friend of mine for a few years was drunk and told me her father hates her. She has hidden this for years and rarely spoke of him, but hates her was extreme and her walls were down and soul bared.

SEAJ where do you fall on the my daddy hates me WG. We all know that strippers stateside often fall in this category.

[SE Asia Joe]

Ok so now let's ask the question.

Does anyone know a single WG (or Chinese girl civi) that has a good close relationship with their father. Most WGs clearly do not and are much closer to their mothers with often distant fathers or missing fathers. Having spoken to a few, they seem to talk of their mother, sisters, but rarely brothers and almost never fathers. Recently a friend of mine for a few years was drunk and told me her father hates her. She has hidden this for years and rarely spoke of him, but hates her was extreme and her walls were down and soul bared.

SEAJ where do you fall on the my daddy hates me WG. We all know that strippers stateside often fall in this category.Know what?

Now that I'm thinking of it,

I think You're right!

I can right now NOT think of any PRC WG's that loves their Dad more than their Mom. In fact, thinking about it, I've hardly ever heard any Chinese WG's tell me that they're even close to their dad. Provide for him, send him money, buy clothes / presents for him, even worried about his health etc. But really, not any gal I can think of at this moment who's expressed she really loves her dad.

But this is just TOO bizarre! Too incredible!

I mean Really? No Chinese WG's love their Dad?

SEAJ

[Freepeaks]

I mean Really? No Chinese WG's love their Dad?

SEAJI have to think it is a bit cultural that girls are not as close to their dad as to their mom, but most if not all WG seems

Like they have a complete non-relationship with their father. I had that revelation when a puking WG friend was crying.

About her father hating her, telling her very very harsh things (I wish you were dead, you are useless, etc).

And this girl has probably sent them 100k rmb over the past few year. I say at least. 2k / month x 48 months.

My guess might be that since her family is only an hour from CP that someone figured out what her job was.

Not that hard if they know you live in CP.

But even remote girls I can't recall one saying anything about their father, and often even the photos I see of their.

Hometown and family does not include a father.

[AsnDragon]

I do agree that most WG are not that close to their father. However, I do hear more often these days how girls are closer to their fathers now. Just this trip alone I met two girls who told me how close they were to their fathers. They revealed that their Mothers wanted boys and was disappointed in having daughters instead, but they were glad that their fathers really cared for them and they were their "daddy's little girl" One even told me that her father liked her so much that her mother got jealous and forced her to leave their home to go out and find a job at a factory far away from home.

Fathers genuinely loving their daughters more than their mothers is a rarity. But I believe that in future generations with the financial capability to only have one child, fathers will learn to treasure their daughters more.

It's interesting how daughters are never treasured in China, even though they work twice as hard and are 10 times more responsible and filial than their male counterparts in China. With time, I believe that this will change and the opposite will be true soon. As so many capable men in the next generations to come cannot find brides, daughters will be valued a whole lot more than sons.

Only in due time.

AsnDragon.


Know what?

Now that I'm thinking of it,

I think You're right!

I can right now NOT think of any PRC WG's that loves their Dad more than their Mom. In fact, thinking about it, I've hardly ever heard any Chinese WG's tell me that they're even close to their dad. Provide for him, send him money, buy clothes / presents for him, even worried about his health etc. But really, not any gal I can think of at this moment who's expressed she really loves her dad.

But this is just TOO bizarre! Too incredible!

I mean Really? No Chinese WG's love their Dad?

SEAJ

[Onadlos]

[quote=pinaypounder; 1225879]ha! ha! you make it sound like you are an expert. why is it that your other post under china is seeking advice saying you have zero experience with chinese girls?zero experience with chinese wg's maybe, not chinese girls.

i've been dating chinee girls for 10 years, why would i say i have zero experience?


when i say chinese girls are not close to their dad i mean most chinese girls, not just the wg's.
and i don't mean anything about the dad wanting a son and being dissappointed.

it's just that chinese dads are not involved in the children's education.
just look around. do you see chinese guys carrying a baby, feeding it or holding their hands ?
not much. they just play majong while the women are left behind with the [CodeWord116] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord116) and the diner.
is this really what girls want ? of course not. and that's where you become her knight in shiny armor.

[SamCan]

[quote=loveasiangirls; 1226040]it's just that chinese dads are not involved in the children's education.

just look around. do you see chinese guys carrying a baby, feeding it or holding their hands?

not much. they just play majong while the women are left behind with the [CodeWord116] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord116) and the diner.

is this really what girls want? of course not. and that's where you become her knight in shiny armor.this is also where laoweis do well with chinese girls in general.

1. we are not afraid to show them we care,

2. when we treat them a little nice, it is 10fold what they are used to.

3. when we pay a couple complements, we are saying " beautiful words"

it kills me how they swoon on some knuckle dragging laowei (me). i can only imagine what they are used to.

[Loveasiangirls]

[QUOTE=Onadlos; 1231204]This is also where Laoweis do well with Chinese girls in general.

1. We are not afraid to show them we care,

2. When we treat them a little nice, it is 10fold what they are used to.

3. When we pay a couple complements, we are saying " beautiful words"

It kills me how they swoon on some knuckle dragging laowei (me). I can only imagine what they are used to.You cannot generalize based on a small sample. This may be the kind of girl that you meet or the kind of girl that a foreigner will meet. But this is a small minority. You may have a different idea if you meet "regular" Chinese. When it comes to dating, Chinese boyfriends are a lot more generous and caring than most westerners. I have lived in China for a while and most of my friends are Chinese and I am amazed at what I see. Chinese girls who have no experience with western men generally find the adaptation difficult. A while back one of them complained that she had been sick at home and her BF (European) called to see how she was doing and told her to take medication. She felt he did not care about her as a Chinese guy would go over, bring medication and bring her some meals while she is at home. And it would be pretty common for the BF to give his GF a credit car or buy her a car.

[SamCan]

[QUOTE=SamCan; 1231222]You cannot generalize based on a small sample. This may be the kind of girl that you meet or the kind of girl that a foreigner will meet. But this is a small minority. You may have a different idea if you meet "regular" Chinese. When it comes to dating, Chinese boyfriends are a lot more generous and caring than most westerners. I have lived in China for a while and most of my friends are Chinese and I am amazed at what I see. Chinese girls who have no experience with western men generally find the adaptation difficult. A while back one of them complained that she had been sick at home and her BF (European) called to see how she was doing and told her to take medication. She felt he did not care about her as a Chinese guy would go over, bring medication and bring her some meals while she is at home. And it would be pretty common for the BF to give his GF a credit car or buy her a car.Are you Chinese? Just kidding. OK, I knew someone would probably flame me for my generalizations. Ifigured it would be some insulted Chinese guy. And yes, my sample size is small (I. E. 1).

I was out with my Chinese girlfriend and meeting two of her friends for dinner. She was talking about some of the inconsequential (I thought) things I had done for her and how wonderful I am. The other two girls, who are dating / married to Chinese guys stared at me with these big envious eyes. I did not know what my girl had told them until she translated on the way home. I knew they though I was pretty cool though. I felt like I was on display as some wonder boy. My girlfriend is 24, her friends are 26, 29 and looking at this 50 year old bald laowei as some wonderful catch. Maybe I read too much into it.

Anyway, I will say I do agree about the medicine thing. It boils down more to commuciation than actual issues. Sometimes I feel she tells me not to do something and really wants me to do something else to show I care. It is like it is some kind of test that I don't know the rules for. I think it is her age though not something cultural.

[Red Rock II]

[QUOTE=SamCan; 1231222]You cannot generalize based on a small sample. This may be the kind of girl that you meet or the kind of girl that a foreigner will meet. But this is a small minority. You may have a different idea if you meet "regular" Chinese. When it comes to dating, Chinese boyfriends are a lot more generous and caring than most westerners. I have lived in China for a while and most of my friends are Chinese and I am amazed at what I see. Chinese girls who have no experience with western men generally find the adaptation difficult. A while back one of them complained that she had been sick at home and her BF (European) called to see how she was doing and told her to take medication. She felt he did not care about her as a Chinese guy would go over, bring medication and bring her some meals while she is at home. And it would be pretty common for the BF to give his GF a credit car or buy her a car.Tollaly agree! I have seen people in this forum said: a little care goes a long way, I just can not belive it. Most of Chinese girl expect a lot more than just a little care from theire BF.

[Purex4]

How people figure the whole phrase of the abbrv such as CP, GFE?

I appreciate if you can show me how to search and get them.

[Loveasiangirls]

How people figure the whole phrase of the abbrv such as CP, GFE?

I appreciate if you can show me how to search and get them.See here: http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/faq.php?faq=faq_wsgforum_01#faq_faq_terms

[FernandoAlonso]

[QUOTE=Loveasiangirls; 1231363]Tollaly agree! I have seen people in this forum said: a little care goes a long way, I just can not belive it. Most of Chinese girl expect a lot more than just a little care from theire BF.Gents,

This puzzle is so easily solved, and again this is stereotyping and generalizing. Chinese men care before marriage and first (and mostly only) child born much more than we imagine, afterwards this turns into pure financical care, no more emotions. Why are there so many unsatisfied MILFs on one hand and an army of mistresses and SP on the other?

Also Chinese have a different concept of beauty than most foreigners so you fish in a pool of neglected aka perceived ugly girls, so a little affection here goes a long way. Everything is relative here in beautiful middle kingdom paradise.

FA

[SamCan]

[QUOTE=Red Rock II; 1231494]Gents,

This puzzle is so easily solved, and again this is stereotyping and generalizing. Chinese men care before marriage and first (and mostly only) child born much more than we imagine, afterwards this turns into pure financical care, no more emotions. Why are there so many unsatisfied MILFs on one hand and an army of mistresses and SP on the other?

Also Chinese have a different concept of beauty than most foreigners so you fish in a pool of neglected aka perceived ugly girls, so a little affection here goes a long way. Everything is relative here in beautiful middle kingdom paradise.

FAA good point on ugly girls in China. Girls over 29 are considerred old. Chinese mothers get nervous when daughters don't have boyfriends or husbands by 25. They are seen as old maids. ON the other hand, in the US, many girls don't even think about marriage until 30. In China, they may be considered "old" and ugly, in the US, Maybe considerred smart.

[Infomatic]

No Chinese man would marry a +29 years old woman, unless:

*She is loaded with cash.

*The daughter of the guy that will definitely promote him to even.

*He got her pregnant and has no other choice (beside death or paying money which he doesn't have)

*The wife of his dead brother.

That said, I have never met a Chinese women which couldn't turn into a real mean ***** in less that 5s.

[Jon von Neumann]

Ok. Given your premise:

- Is it worth it chasing after a 29+ Chinese woman who might turn into a be* in 5 sec.

- Or not bother because she is likely to be x or y?

I like the physical appearance of many Chinese women, especially the ones that know how to dress and have a beautiful face and eyes. I dated a Chinese woman in graduate school. In general, is it worth pursuing these women or is it a lost cause bound for failure?

For the record, I've been only to Hong Kong and Macau. My trip to Hong Kong was especially memorable. I remember seeing couples arguing in public on several occasions. On one memorable occasion I saw a man arguing with a stunningly beautiful woman whom I assumed was his wife on the way to the train station (I think she might have been doing a westerner despite his disapproval from the way she dressed and the blissful satisfaction on her face despite his berating her). I thought to myself, at that moment, that these women must know what they want and would'nt hesitate to act on their impulses when it suited them. Of course, my experiences in the states with Chinese married women might have colored conclusions about what might be going on with these couples. I kind of thought that the idea of the one couple arguing on the breezeway to the train station was sexy. I am sure the dude would've forgave her soon after she f*ed his brian out when they got home. I know I would've.

I am just curious about the opinions of you expats who have lived in China for some time. Can you share some of your insights about the culture (and general make up of the people's psyche)? Was my initial impression of the couple arguing on the way to the train station not likely true? Are Chinese men more or less as jealous as most of us westerners are? How often do the average Chinese married woman cheat with a hot western man when the opportunity presents itself?

BTW: I think I am probably going to marry a Chinese lady one of these days given my attraction to their look and attitude. But I think my ignorance of them and Chinese culture in any meaningful detail might just be that-a blissful ignorance.

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

-BL2010.


No Chinese man would marry a +29 years old woman, unless:

*She is loaded with cash.

*The daughter of the guy that will definitely promote him to even.

*He got her pregnant and has no other choice (beside death or paying money which he doesn't have)

*The wife of his dead brother.

That said, I have never met a Chinese women which couldn't turn into a real mean * in less that 5s.

[Mmlouie]

(I think she might have been doing a westerner despite his disapproval from the way she dressed and the blissful satisfaction on her face despite his berating her).

Are Chinese men more or less as jealous as most of us westerners are? How often do the average Chinese married woman cheat with a hot western man when the opportunity presents itself?

BTW: I think I am probably going to marry a Chinese lady one of these days given my attraction to their look and attitude. But I think my ignorance of them and Chinese culture in any meaningful detail might just be that-a blissful ignorance.Wow, you came up with that all by yourself? That must be it then!

Incredible!

Best of luck to you, you will need it.

Mmlouie

[Niteluvr]

No Chinese man would marry a +29 years old woman, unless:

*She is loaded with cash.

*The daughter of the guy that will definitely promote him to even.

*He got her pregnant and has no other choice (beside death or paying money which he doesn't have)

*The wife of his dead brother.

That said, I have never met a Chinese women which couldn't turn into a real mean * in less that 5s.Are you serious? I Chinese guy would marry his dead wife's brother? Can't imagine anyone doing that.

[Niteluvr]

See here:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/faq.php?faq=faq_wsgforum_01#faq_faq_termsCP isn't on the list. What does it mean?

[Mmlouie]

CP isn't on the list. What does it mean?RTF-South China. Dongguan-F!

Mmlouie

[Jon von Neumann]

From my post, it should've been quite obvious that I thought it was a BIG speculation on my part. If it wasn't that obvious, I apologize. I didn't mean to rub you the wrong way. Sorry if you think my post was intended as something of a personal insult or something like that. No need for the snarky remarks. I don't need it. Sheesh!

BL.


Wow, you came up with that all by yourself? That must be it then!

Incredible!

Best of luck to you, you will need it.

Mmlouie

[Blacklisted]

From my post, it should've been quite obvious that I thought it was a BIG speculation on my part. If it wasn't that obvious, I apologize. I didn't mean to rub you the wrong way. Sorry if you think my post was intended as something of a personal insult or something like that. No need for the snarky remarks. I don't need it. Sheesh!

BL.Don't worry BL2010 (nice handle by the way). Some people can be sensitive to postings that sound somewhat ethnocentric, even if not overtly so. Word of advice though, is don't assume this forum is full of 'us westerners'. There are loads of people from all ethnic backgrounds, including lots of Chinese, or ABC, or whatever. It's always tricky with a thread that in its nature inspires some level of stereotyping, considering we are talking about 'advice on Chinese Women'. Which are not one kind of women, but thousands of kinds of women.

You sound like a young guy, quite new to China and that's cool, there's a lot to love about women living here and they are very addictive. You won't look back!

[Niteluvr]

RTF-South China. Dongguan-F!

MmlouieCP somehow means South China. Dongguan? Still don't get it.

[ShangHangin]

CP somehow means South China. Dongguan? Still don't get it.GuangDong Province, DongGuan City, ChangPing Town = CP aka one of the best mongering spots in China.

[Infomatic]

Ok. Given your premise:

-BL2010."No Chinese man would marry a +29 years old woman."

[Infomatic]

GuangDong Province, DongGuan City, ChangPing Town = CP aka one of the best mongering spots in China.Not really, anyway Chanping is one of Beijing"s many districts. Chinese: &26124; &24179; &21312; ; pinyin: Ch&257; ngpíng Q&363, formerly Changping County (&26124; &24179; &21439, is situated in the suburbs of northwest Beijing.

[Gualtier Malde]

Don't worry BL2010 (nice handle by the way).Well, Blacklisted is a gentleman, and as such would never complain that someone stepped on his identity. But sheesh, can't people be a bit more creative than attaching a date to a well known handle and claiming it as their own? What's next? Old Asia Hand 2012? Jackson2012?

BL2010, I'm sure you mean well, but the original Blacklisted is a long time Shanghai hand, and probably deserves full rights to his handle.

Maybe I should claim Gualtier Malde 2012 before someone beats me to it!

GM.

[Jon von Neumann]

Gualtier Malde,

You make a good point. I picked a name I thought was decriptive in more than one way at the time to explore the board. I wasn't sure I would hang around the board at the time. However, after reading many good reports from members of the Philippines and Thailand boards and after my first visit to Philippines, I decided to keep the handle. I hadn't planned to participate in China board until now. I have posted several reports with my handle. If there is any confusion about who I am (as opposed to the orginal Blacklisted himself) , I'd change my handle. Perhaps, I should consider Gualtier-Malde-2012 or GM2012 at that time. Thanks for the suggestion. .

BL2010.


Well, Blacklisted is a gentleman, and as such would never complain that someone stepped on his identity. But sheesh, can't people be a bit more creative than attaching a date to a well known handle and claiming it as their own? What's next? Old Asia Hand 2012? Jackson2012?

BL2010, I'm sure you mean well, but the original Blacklisted is a long time Shanghai hand, and probably deserves full rights to his handle.

Maybe I should claim Gualtier Malde 2012 before someone beats me to it!

GM.

[Gualtier Malde]

Gualtier Malde,

You make a good point. I picked a name I thought was decriptive in more than one way at the time to explore the board. I wasn't sure I would hang around the board at the time. However, after reading many good reports from members of the Philippines and Thailand boards and after my first visit to Philippines, I decided to keep the handle. I hadn't planned to participate in China board until now. I have posted several reports with my handle. If there is any confusion about who I am (as opposed to the orginal Blacklisted himself) , I'd change my handle. Perhaps, I should consider Gualtier-Malde-2012 or GM2012 at that time. Thanks for the suggestion. .

BL2010.You miss an important point, BL2010. When I first saw your post, I assume my friend Blacklisted had updated his handle name (it is not hard to do). Several long standing members of ISG (and I mean very long, with much real life history) know Blacklisted personally. Someone could confuse you with him, pop off a PM to you instead of him, revealing personally identifying information about them or Blacklisted. That would not be good for either side of the erroneously sent PM.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but I think common courtesy suggests that you choose a handle that is unique, not something so close to someone who has been on this board for over 5 years and is known by so many. Many of us aren't just board posters, we actually know each other offline and watch each others backs on the prowl. Perhaps it would serve you well not to be so cavalier about the community. If you're in China, you might enjoy running into some of us in RL, and a good relationship can start here.

GM.

[Gunkaman]

No Chinese man would marry a +29 years old woman, unless:

*She is loaded with cash.

*The daughter of the guy that will definitely promote him to even.

*He got her pregnant and has no other choice (beside death or paying money which he doesn't have)

*The wife of his dead brother.

That said, I have never met a Chinese women which couldn't turn into a real mean * in less that 5s.Well, from my experience in the PRC. 28 yrs old seems to be the magic number. If the woman is older than 28, she is either not a virgin or there is something wrong with her. I think this is changing though.

Rich Chinese women now, so maybe the cash angle comes in, but I don't see that different than any other country.

The wife of the dead brother? This can happen elsewhere as well. Provide and take care of the family.

[Gualtier Malde]

Are you serious? I Chinese guy would marry his dead wife's brother? Can't imagine anyone doing that.I had to read this twice before I saw the twist. Good one, whether intentional or not! (And I heartily agree.)

GM.

[Jon von Neumann]

Are you serious? I Chinese guy would marry his dead wife's brother? Can't imagine anyone doing that.Many non-european cultures have this practice. It was a way to make sure women (especially women in child bearing ages) and children of dead relatives are taken care of. Many African and Asian cultures have (or had) this practice.

[Jon von Neumann]

You miss an important point, BL2010. When I first saw your post, I assume my friend Blacklisted had updated his handle name (it is not hard to do). Several long standing members of ISG (and I mean very long, with much real life history) know Blacklisted personally. Someone could confuse you with him, pop off a PM to you instead of him, revealing personally identifying information about them or Blacklisted. That would not be good for either side of the erroneously sent PM.

GM.I am not trying to cause any confusion here. If you can point me to instructions on how to change ones handle here (short of starting a new account) , I'd be happy to do it. I know we are all busy people outside of the hobby and are prone to get forgetful.

BL2010

[Gualtier Malde]

Read NiteLuvr's post carefully, BL2010. A Chinese GUY would never marry his dead WIFE's . BROTHER.

GM.


Many non-european cultures have this practice. It was a way to make sure women (especially women in child bearing ages) and children of dead relatives are taken care of. Many African and Asian cultures have (or had) this practice.

[Gualtier Malde]

I am not trying to cause any confusion here. If you can point me to instructions on how to change ones handle here (short of starting a new account) , I'd be happy to do it. I know we are all busy people outside of the hobby and are prone to get forgetful.

BL2010BL2010, see the FAQ (link on the bar at the top of the page). There is an entry for "How do I change my Username?". It is a relatively simple process. I've done it. This is not my original handle.

GM.

[Loveasiangirls]

"No Chinese man would marry a +29 years old woman."I have many female friends over 29 who have married, even over 40. But most foreigners only get to meet the desperate ones who cannot get married due to some flaw.

[Niteluvr]

BL2010, see the FAQ (link on the bar at the top of the page). There is an entry for "How do I change my Username?". It is a relatively simple process. I've done it. This is not my original handle.

GM.If you change your username, do you keep your number of posts?

[Gualtier Malde]

If you change your username, do you keep your number of posts?Yes, this is all covered in the FAQ.

GM.

[Jon von Neumann]

Yes, this is all covered in the FAQ.

GM.The FAQ was updated a few hours ago. There is a new process for changing names now.

[Kbj2010]

The FAQ was updated a few hours ago. There is a new process for changing names now.That is the same process I used two years ago to change my User Name. Took a day or so for the change to occur.

[Niteluvr]

Yes, this is all covered in the FAQ.

GM.Thanks GM, you're a great wealth of information. Keep the posts coming! I think I even remember hitting you up for info the first time I visited China in 2007. Glad you're still contributing to the forum.

[Niteluvr]

I have many female friends over 29 who have married, even over 40. But most foreigners only get to meet the desperate ones who cannot get married due to some flaw.Have to agree with you. First, I have to agree with the other poster that, in most Asian societies, women over 30 are considered over the hill; however, times are changing and with the additional economic power Chinese, Korean and other Asian women have enjoyed over the last decade or so, they're either not as desperate to find a husband for security reasons or can more easily bide their time in looking for a quality husband. In addition, many foreigners tend to forget that we rarely get the cream of the crop. We tend to get the B-list women or worse. That said, there's always that hidden niche of fine. 30+ plus women that most foreigners do not have access to. YMMV, but that's been the general rule of thumb that I've seen over the last 30 years.

Case in point: I have a good Korean male friend who is 41 and whom I have known since 1999. His new wife is 31 and a real hottie, well-educated, successful, etc. She would never consider marrying a foreigner and told me she'd rather die a single woman than ever marry a foreigner as her mindset is too "Korean." Sad, but true.

[Jon von Neumann]

That is the same process I used two years ago to change my User Name. Took a day or so for the change to occur.I got a note from Jackson that the forum's "Change User Name" function is not functioning at this time. He doesn't know when it will.

As much as I want to take GM's suggestions and change my name, I think this is too much trouble for very little benefit. Please live with my handle being what it is for now. Don't send me stuff meant for Blacklisted. Ok? Bye for now?

[Gualtier Malde]

I got a note from Jackson that the forum's "Change User Name" function is not functioning at this time. He doesn't know when it will.

As much as I want to take GM's suggestions and change my name, I think this is too much trouble for very little benefit. Please live with my handle being what it is for now. Don't send me stuff meant for Blacklisted. Ok? Bye for now?Whatever works. It's really an issue between you and Blacklisted, frankly. I know some others are also considering name changes, I guess they'll all have to wait. Jackson usually gets things done, eventually. Hang in there.

This should be the end of this in this thread, this is the wrong thread for this discussion anyway.

GM.

[Purex4]

I just want to ask some brothers here this question. What type of girls will lead to a good long term relationship and eventually marriage in your experience? I know some people said that dating WGs or BBS girls should be avoided at all time because they are only good for pleasure. What about freebies or girls that you met online?

[Blacklisted]

Whatever works. It's really an issue between you and Blacklisted, frankly. I know some others are also considering name changes, I guess they'll all have to wait. Jackson usually gets things done, eventually. Hang in there.

This should be the end of this in this thread, this is the wrong thread for this discussion anyway.

GM.You seem like a nice enough chap, so no harm done as I'm frequently a bit of an asshole on the board. Therefore you're probably worse off than I for the handle!

My handle was previously Tripper In Town until another poster in the DG thread asked if he should refer to me as TIT. Although probably quite an accurate acronym, my modest and shy nature required I make the necessary adjustment.

[Blacklisted]

I just want to ask some brothers here this question. What type of girls will lead to a good long term relationship and eventually marriage in your experience? I know some people said that dating WGs or BBS girls should be avoided at all time because they are only good for pleasure. What about freebies or girls that you met online?Based on my experience in this highly regarded field, I can say with absolute certainty that the type of girl you should be seeking for 'a good long term relationship AND eventually marriage' must be drawn from the following pool of females:

- Born under the starsigns Horse, Rooster, Hamster or Snake (Girls under the other starsigns are more likely to provide only Bad or Average long term relationships and in some cases, only good 'short term' ones.

- A firm believer in the Egyptian Sun God Ra (you'd be surprised how many there are in China. They may even attend an underground Church of Ra. If you could join I imagine it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel)

- Eyes must be between 1. 5 inches and 2 inches apart. Any closer means there is high likelihood of 'gold diggery' and any wider high likelihood of 'skull duggery'. Avoid.

Freebies and girls met online should also be avoided at all costs, as there is a high chance of mental irrationality, given that they're willing to be enjoyed by us without adequate and well-deserved payment.

Sincerely hope it helps!

[Kajos]

Hahahaha, funniest thing I've read this year. A fitting answer to the original question!


Based on my experience in this highly regarded field, I can say with absolute certainty that the type of girl you should be seeking for 'a good long term relationship AND eventually marriage' must be drawn from the following pool of females:

- Born under the starsigns Horse, Rooster, Hamster or Snake (Girls under the other starsigns are more likely to provide only Bad or Average long term relationships and in some cases, only good 'short term' ones.

- A firm believer in the Egyptian Sun God Ra (you'd be surprised how many there are in China. They may even attend an underground Church of Ra. If you could join I imagine it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel)

- Eyes must be between 1. 5 inches and 2 inches apart. Any closer means there is high likelihood of 'gold diggery' and any wider high likelihood of 'skull duggery'. Avoid.

Freebies and girls met online should also be avoided at all costs, as there is a high chance of mental irrationality, given that they're willing to be enjoyed by us without adequate and well-deserved payment.

Sincerely hope it helps!

[FruitNinja]

No Chinese man would marry a +29 years old woman, unless:

That said, I have never met a Chinese women which couldn't turn into a real mean * in less that 5s.I can attest to this. Add alcohol to the mix and you have a total unreasonable be*ch. I dated one for 2 years. She was very cold, loving when she needed something but B in a second. Total sub in bed though. The best I've ever had and I've had. Bitter sweet parting.

[Gualtier Malde]

Sincerely hope it helps!Like!

GM.

[Beijing Fox]

Hey blacklisted,

What is this? Are you excluding yourself?

Take it easy.

The Fox.


Based on my experience in this highly regarded field, I can say with absolute certainty that the type of girl you should be seeking for 'a good long term relationship AND eventually marriage' must be drawn from the following pool of females:

- Born under the starsigns Horse, Rooster, Hamster or Snake (Girls under the other starsigns are more likely to provide only Bad or Average long term relationships and in some cases, only good 'short term' ones.

- A firm believer in the Egyptian Sun God Ra (you'd be surprised how many there are in China. They may even attend an underground Church of Ra. If you could join I imagine it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel)

- Eyes must be between 1. 5 inches and 2 inches apart. Any closer means there is high likelihood of 'gold diggery' and any wider high likelihood of 'skull duggery'. Avoid.

Freebies and girls met online should also be avoided at all costs, as there is a high chance of mental irrationality, given that they're willing to be enjoyed by us without adequate and well-deserved payment.

Sincerely hope it helps!

[Shikkar]

Based on my experience in this highly regarded field, I can say with absolute certainty that the type of girl you should be seeking for 'a good long term relationship AND eventually marriage' must be drawn from the following pool of females:

- Born under the starsigns Horse, Rooster, Hamster or Snake (Girls under the other starsigns are more likely to provide only Bad or Average long term relationships and in some cases, only good 'short term' ones.

- A firm believer in the Egyptian Sun God Ra (you'd be surprised how many there are in China. They may even attend an underground Church of Ra. If you could join I imagine it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel)

- Eyes must be between 1. 5 inches and 2 inches apart. Any closer means there is high likelihood of 'gold diggery' and any wider high likelihood of 'skull duggery'. Avoid.

Freebies and girls met online should also be avoided at all costs, as there is a high chance of mental irrationality, given that they're willing to be enjoyed by us without adequate and well-deserved payment.

Sincerely hope it helps!Ha ha. Nice find bro.

Hearing first time anything like this.

Support your finding on online freebies.

Long time relation ship only will lead marriage for young and 20 plus girls. Prefer more yhan five years. My fellow friends experiance!

Mature finding on dating sites are very clear of foreign visa.

[Member #4145]

I just want to ask some brothers here this question. What type of girls will lead to a good long term relationship and eventually marriage in your experience? I know some people said that dating WGs or BBS girls should be avoided at all time because they are only good for pleasure. What about freebies or girls that you met online?I would counter this and say just because she's a WG or BBS girl doesn't mean she's a slag.

The exeriences I've had with WGs have been honest and the girls have expressed their interest in long-term relationships with foreign men, in particular caucasian men. I was asked by most WGs if I have a girlfriend or wife. Most have been disappointed when I said yes. My regular WG has said she's emotionally holding back on me because I'm married. When she stayed with me she cooked, cleaned, ironed my shirts. She brushes of dirt from my jackets and adjusts my collars in public. She always holds my hand and wraps herself around me. I think it's just what kind of connection you make.

As for freebies, then it depends on how it's applied.

They could be slags, divorced, married, lying about how many kids they have. Wanting a ticket to a 1st world country. Or they could be a great girl.

I've learnt loads about people since coming to China. I come from a home of privilage and have seen WGs who live in poverty but who have big hearts and are honest and kind.

Best of luck.

Sinclair

[Niteluvr]

I was asked by most WGs if I have a girlfriend or wife. Most have been disappointed when I said yes. My regular WG has said she's emotionally holding back on me because I'm married. When she stayed with me she cooked, cleaned, ironed my shirts. She brushes of dirt from my jackets and adjusts my collars in public. She always holds my hand and wraps herself around me. I think it's just what kind of connection you make.

SinclairSounds like you have the charm. It's always nice to find a woman on the side who will cook, clean, etc. That said, was that particular woman trying to charm you due to economic reasons or for pure love reasons? Also, wondering how many of you based in China are married and how your wives treat you in general? I've been married to Korean women twice and really hate their hot tempers. If any of you have long-term experience with both, please chime in.

[Member #4145]

Sounds like you have the charm. It's always nice to find a woman on the side who will cook, clean, etc. That said, was that particular woman trying to charm you due to economic reasons or for pure love reasons? Also, wondering how many of you based in China are married and how your wives treat you in general? I've been married to Korean women twice and really hate their hot tempers. If any of you have long-term experience with both, please chime in.I know about those Korean women, the Italians of Asia. I worked with one in Tokyo, indubitably one of the most beautiful woman I've had the privilage of knowing. However, I witnessed her short temper on several occassions. Ouch.

I've been married for 6 years and I'm bored to death. I married a Japanese. She generally treats me well, though sometimes like a child. I'm just quite simply bored with the matter.

Regarding hot tempers, my regular WG (Chinese) has one and gets very jealous when other women approach me or call. But only with other women which is natural enough. She doesn't want me to go with other WGs and takes me to her bar to 'show me off' as she puts it to the other girls. Oh dear. This only makes matters worse as everytime she goes to the loo, the other girls approach me.

So was she trying to charm me for economic reasons or for love? Well it's a question of romance and finance, as it is with all women I assume.

She stays with me without asking for a cent, enjoys my company, always calls. However, I pay for everything and rightly so, when we dine, go out, I paid for her hair and nails and I've brought her clothes. At times she wants to be intimate with me, not the other way around.

She called me over Chinese New Year everyday in secracy as she doesn't want her family to know she has English friends (they know nothing of the matter). So I guess there is something there.

I've experienced the following with Chinese girls in bars. When they encounter me, they ask if I'm married or have a girlfriend. I'm an honest sort of chap and give them a straight answer. This changes their stance from one of potential partner to a simple but enjoyable business transaction. However, this hasn't stopped some of them wanting to take it further.

The civilians I think are worse.

I've had a few stalkers, peculiar text messages, madness really.

Sinclair

[Pinaypounder]

I have many female friends over 29 who have married, even over 40. But most foreigners only get to meet the desperate ones who cannot get married due to some flaw.ROFLMAO.

Having chatted to a number of Asian ladies almost ALL KNOW an Asian man will cheat. The women over 30 are not flawed sadly they are smarter and have real expectations.

Western man is seen as far superior in almost every way (hey I am not saying I agree, thank you Bradley Pitt) but non the less we are viewed are richer, more romantic, better lovers and far far far more polite and respectful which quite frankly the last part is true.

We are a better catch for sure.

PP except me I am a prick just ask my 2 ex wives.

[NewChinaHand]

Have to agree with you. First, I have to agree with the other poster that, in most Asian societies, women over 30 are considered over the hill; however, times are changing and with the additional economic power Chinese, Korean and other Asian women have enjoyed over the last decade or so, they're either not as desperate to find a husband for security reasons or can more easily bide their time in looking for a quality husband. In addition, many foreigners tend to forget that we rarely get the cream of the crop. We tend to get the B-list women or worse. That said, there's always that hidden niche of fine. 30+ plus women that most foreigners do not have access to. YMMV, but that's been the general rule of thumb that I've seen over the last 30 years.

Case in point: I have a good Korean male friend who is 41 and whom I have known since 1999. His new wife is 31 and a real hottie, well-educated, successful, etc. She would never consider marrying a foreigner and told me she'd rather die a single woman than ever marry a foreigner as her mindset is too "Korean." Sad, but true.I'd say they are STILL Christmas cake. Nobody wants Christmas cake after the 31st. Instead of all single women in their 30's being stuck up shit creek without a paddle a tiny percentage are able to demonstrate they can be financially successful without a husband. Such women stand out because they are the exception and not the rule.

And such women are still subject to the reproductive reality that says they can wait as long as they want to find a husband but if they wait too long they are going to have trouble bearing him healthy children.

If a woman is in her mid 40's before she starts trying to have a family she better be rich, because good fertility specialists cost good money.

[Bnlee2]

ROFLMAO.

Having chatted to a number of Asian ladies almost ALL KNOW an Asian man will cheat. The women over 30 are not flawed sadly they are smarter and have real expectations.

Western man is seen as far superior in almost every way (hey I am not saying I agree, thank you Bradley Pitt) but non the less we are viewed are richer, more romantic, better lovers and far far far more polite and respectful which quite frankly the last part is true.

We are a better catch for sure.

PP except me I am a prick just ask my 2 ex wives.Pinaypounder.

Did you come up with this all by yourself? Just wondering.

You should apply for a job in Disney studios as an imagineer. You will do great. Seriously.

[Pinaypounder]

Just a heads up to all here. I am working with several Chinese Manufacturers and a few chat mates.

It seems standard that Chinese women use a fake picture.

I just made a large mistake with a long time chatmate who when she appeared on Cam was nothing like the pic I was enamoured with.

Even the Business Reps use fake pictures.

Odd I have not encountered this much before.

PP

[Mmlouie]

Pinaypounder.

Did you come up with this all by yourself? Just wondering.

You should apply for a job in Disney studios as an imagineer. You will do great. Seriously.You are wasting your breath, you talk talking to Brad Pitt.

Mmlouie

[Loveasiangirls]

Just a heads up to all here. I am working with several Chinese Manufacturers and a few chat mates.

It seems standard that Chinese women use a fake picture.

I just made a large mistake with a long time chatmate who when she appeared on Cam was nothing like the pic I was enamoured with.

Even the Business Reps use fake pictures.

Odd I have not encountered this much before.

PPYou just figured this out? I guess we won't rely on your advice if this is your level of knowledge!

[Onadlos]

Hi everyone,

Recently I was reading about Chinese students doing sex for money in Motel 168, and how they were not even poor girls but rather middle class who where addicted to shopping, were bored and wanted to do something extreme, or wanted to get back at dad for not buying them LV bags.

Girls in China today are extremely materialistic.

That's why fat old and ugly Chinese guys have stunning er nais.

So my question is: does anyone here have one too?

There's a girl I know seeing that is a 10, and I clearly understand that she won't go out with anyone unless the guy showers her with presents. I'm tempted to offer her that in exchange for. Well you know, exclusive unprotected sex.

But I have a lot of questions!

- Is there like a standard, like say, paying for the flat and the car?

- What should I expect her to do, sexually? Because I get the feeling that ernais in China are mostly ripping of businessmen but not giving much in return.

- How do you meet potential candidates, or "propose" a girl?

I am extremely curious about this and pondering the pros and cons.

PLease answer if you have any experience, stories and know China very well.

[Loveasiangirls]

Read this: http://blog.minitofu.com/2010/11/chinese-college-mistress-price-list-and-contract-exposed-online/


Hi everyone.

Recently I was reading about Chinese students doing sex for money in Motel 168, and how they were not even poor girls but rather middle class who where addicted to shopping, were bored and wanted to do something extreme, or wanted to get back at dad for not buying them LV bags.

Young girls in China today are extremely materialistic.

That's why fat old and ugly Chinese guys have stunning er nais.

So my question is : does anyone here have one too?

There's a girl I know seeing that is a 10, and I clearly understand that she won't go out with anyone unless the guy showers her with presents. I'm tempted to offer her that in exchange for. Well you know, exclusive unprotected sex.

But I have a lot of questions!

- Is there like a standard, like say, paying for the flat and the car?

- What should I expect her to do, sexually? Because I get the feeling that ernais in China are mostly ripping of businessmen but not giving much in return.

- How do you meet potential candidates, or "propose" a girl?

I am extremely curious about this and pondering the pros and cons.

PLease answer if you have any experience, stories and know China very well.

[SamCan]

Read this:

http://blog.minitofu.com/2010/11/chinese-college-mistress-price-list-and-contract-exposed-online/
As you can see this is 2010. I have a 24 year old Chinese girlffriend for my trips to SH. I don't pay her (other than the occasional gift of jewelry or perfume.) She has a friend who is an ER Nai. Her friend is getting 20, 000 RMB per month or $3000 . My girlfriend was offered (if I remember correctly) 20, 000 to 30, 000 RMB. She did not take him up on it as she is seeing me and I am her first real love. She is quite beautiful. She is probably a 9. But then again, I am attached to her and may not be the best to say.

Overall it is more than listed in the ad. These are the only prices I know and it is Shanghai pricing. I have no clue how you do this. I believe you need to find a friend of a friend. My girl's friend was offered a finder's fee to get this guy a girl.

And of course, skip the contract! Who in god's name would document and sign their illegal activity? That is just stupid. Pay the girl by the month and if she walks, find another.

[AmericanThief]

You said 20, 000 per month, which is insane. The internet ad says 20, 000 per year.

Can you confirm your friends is earning 240, 000 per year to be a mistress?

[Knotawake]

Actually, I am good friends with a "retired" er nai in Shanghai. She's a bit out of the ordinary because she didn't get into the business until she was 32, but she was a "looker" and still looks mighty tasty in her late 40's. Like a lot of good looking Chinese women, she headed from the countryside to Shenzhen in the mid 90's and found a "wealthy" businessman. About 3000 RMB per month at the time. He ran into some cash flow (and real wife) issues and dropped her so she did the KTV thing for awhile, then found another Chinese supporter for around the same money for three years. That played out and she ended-up with a Japanese factory manager for 10, 000 HK dollars for 2+ years. Eventually, she found her way to Shanghai which is where I met her. Rule #1, don't offer more money or emotions than you can afford to lose. Rule #2, you ain't the only dude, she may say she's faithful, but there ARE others. Rule #3, see rule #1 & #2.

I've had some wonderful times with my gal in Shanghai. She's been straightforward (most of the time) and has given me some interesting insight to the whole "er nai" business, as well as the WG business in general (she's floated back and forth through various segments) , but understand; it is a business for them. That doesn't mean they don't have real feelings and don't deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, but they are looking out for #1. If your wallet and your heart gets damaged in the process, oh well.

Knotawake


Hi everyone.

Recently I was reading about Chinese students doing sex for money in Motel 168, and how they were not even poor girls but rather middle class who where addicted to shopping, were bored and wanted to do something extreme, or wanted to get back at dad for not buying them LV bags.

Young girls in China today are extremely materialistic.

That's why fat old and ugly Chinese guys have stunning er nais.

So my question is : does anyone here have one too?

There's a girl I know seeing that is a 10, and I clearly understand that she won't go out with anyone unless the guy showers her with presents. I'm tempted to offer her that in exchange for. Well you know, exclusive unprotected sex.

But I have a lot of questions!

- Is there like a standard, like say, paying for the flat and the car?

- What should I expect her to do, sexually? Because I get the feeling that ernais in China are mostly ripping of businessmen but not giving much in return.

- How do you meet potential candidates, or "propose" a girl?

I am extremely curious about this and pondering the pros and cons.

PLease answer if you have any experience, stories and know China very well.

[SamCan]

You said 20, 000 per month, which is insane. The internet ad says 20, 000 per year.

Can you confirm your friends is earning 240, 000 per year to be a mistress?These are Shanghai prices. Outside Shanghai could be a different set up. There is a lot of money there. Yes. Her friend is at 20, 000 RMB per month. My girl (who works at some high end hotel in the massage spa) was offerred 30, 000 per month. I am not making this up. I don't know when the girl was getting 10, 000 per month in HK (in the other post) but if it was a couple years ago, the numbers are in line.

[Onadlos]

Thanks everyone for the info. Now that I think about it the 20000 a month Price seems reAl but its not a stndard. I mean its not uncopmon to see ernais driving bmws so.

[Loveasiangirls]

Thanks everyone for the info. Now that I think about it the 20000 a month Price seems reAl but its not a stndard. I meAn its not uncopmon to see ernais driving bmws so.Yes there is a lot of money in China. I know several Chinese women whose boyfriends or boyfriend hopeful would give her one of his credit card, buy her a car or buy her an apartment.

These women are not sex workers. Just normal professionals who happen to have a reasonably rich guy chasing them. And they were not students but between 30 and 42 years old.

I have a lady friend who was manager of a high-end store and more than once a week would a guy walk in with his younger girlfriend and buy her a 50, 000RMB+ watch. This happened nearly every day in her shop.

Possibly students can be cheaper. It is all about supply and demand.
Not sure how you can tell that a woman driving a BMW is an ernai and not the real wife or a rich businesswoman.

[Bnlee2]

Yes there is a lot of money in China. I know several Chinese women whose boyfriends or boyfriend hopeful would give her one of his credit card, buy her a car or buy her an apartment.

These women are not sex workers. Just normal professionals who happen to have a reasonably rich guy chasing them. And they were not students but between 30 and 42 years old.

I have a lady friend who was manager of a high-end store and more than once a week would a guy walk in with his younger girlfriend and buy her a 50, 000RMB+ watch. This happened nearly every day in her shop.

Possibly students can be cheaper. It is all about supply and demand.

Not sure how you can tell that a woman driving a BMW is an ernai and not the real wife or a rich businesswoman.It does not always have to go in that direction. If you play it right, it can go the other direction.

[Loveasiangirls]

Here is an article about this subject on the Shenzhen mistresses. Even HK truck drivers who used to all have a mistress on the China side have been squeezed out of the market.

http://www.wenxuecity.com/news/2012/03/11/1674272.html

[Sammon]

Here is an article about this subject on the Shenzhen mistresses. Even HK truck drivers who used to all have a mistress on the China side have been squeezed out of the market.

http://www.wenxuecity.com/news/2012/03/11/1674272.htmlI have had a mistress when I lived in China-Shenzhen few years ago started 2006. The girl was from Hubei. Very pretty 19 year old. Just came to Shenzhen looking for a job because her mother's sister worked in a KTV.

When I met her she has been in KTV business for 2 months. This was not a high end touristy KTV. Only locals or HK Chinese go there. Very few foreigners. I had gone there with my business associate after a deal.

Business associate knew one mamasan who worked there. While we were walking to the room I noticed this girl and beckoned her. She came with us and sat with me in the room. Ofcourse in a KTV lots of girls come and sit in the room as well. My friend picked another girl and told the mamasan to get rid of all the other girls. We had a very good toime drinking, singing, eating. When asked my girl if she wanted to come with me she declined saying she never goes with anybody. However she wanted my phone number and put it in her phone. She could speak few words of english but can write down on paper what she means. I just wrote her off as casual meeting.

Next day in the morning she calls me and wants to come over to my room. Somehow the chemistry was right.

To cut the long story short we found a studio apt for 1200 RMB per month. She wanted 4000 RMB per month for everything and she will keep the apt clean, cook, wash clothes and ofcourse good sex.

She was one of the most economical girls I know. Would never ask for anything extra and always appreciative of what I gave her. We travelled to lots of places in China including yangtse cruise. Tried to get her a passport for her and it was denied. It is very hard to find a mistress cheap anymore. Economy has improved for everybody. Even the mistresses now ask for min 10, 000 RMB per month and other expenses.

Gone are the good old days.

Thank goodness for Philippines. It is still quite cheap to keep a girl.

[Kamsau]

I've now encountered Chinese women in several countries. (I do not live in China.) A lot of them come across as very genuine, interested in enduring relationships, marriage and green card. I have now fallen for one of these in a big way. I think she would make a great wife. Clearly the green card and jump to a better lifestyle are a big incentive for her. She is 18 years younger than me. I wonder whether she would commit to me permanently. Views, anyone?Shred some more light? Where are you from? Her age and her location?

[Bnlee2]

After following the story about Bo and his wife, I really should do a full background and MENTAL check on these trophy housewives that I'm doing. Cyanide poisioning and craziness is getting me a bit worry. When I read in the Daily Telegraph that she wanted Heywood to divorce his wife and take an oath of allegiance to her, I know that she had an affair with him.

Its cheap to these lonely, neglected and rich housewives and I get more in return but they can get a little nutty. Then again the KTV and bbs gals could sometimes get "psycho" too. Maybe it time to join the priesthood and check out the new nuns coming through the pipeline. Just a thought.

[Clandestine782]

Making a market of "leftover" women?

In some situation or another, Chinese people are always saying to me "foreigners date women that we think are ugly." And I'm always replying "Well, then doesn't that work out best for everyone involved? You avoid something you don't want and he gets something that he does?" Silence usually follows. (Of course the purpose of making that statement was not to actually comment on the taste of foreigners.)

But it has gotten me to thinking. What would happen if a foreign man wanted to make a market out of what Chinese men did not want? How do go about doing that?

What they won't accept:

1. Darker skinned women.

2. Women with freckles.

3. Women with hips.

4. Women that are. Rubenesque.

5. Sometimes, they don't want to be bothered with women over 28 (which I don't understand, because the vagina does not start to dry out until around 45- it should function just fine up until about then).

If you wanted to live the life of a scavenger, how would you do that? (I only care that the woman doesn't smoke and is not a "white tiger", nor missing pubic hair for any reason.)

There is one thing: I don't smoke or drink. I don't like bars. What I do do is: Read, Run, Weighlift, Play Piano, and follow SOME current events. How would you go about making a market out of leftovers if you were me? I was thinking about starting to scavenge at English corners (but past experience has shown that they were students who were mental-12-years-olds-trapped in the young, nubile bodies of 22 year olds).

The other thing is: I make a pretty good living teaching Chemistry and translating (on the side). I would like to find a college student / woman and give her SOMETHING LIKE an allowance. The amount that I would be willing to spend would be equivalent to however much it would be to have a hooker who was about a 6-7 overnight 4x / month.

What do you think, brothers?

[SHMongerer]

Dateinasia.

Italki.

Go to those websites and sign up, I think you'll find what you're looking for.


Making a market of "leftover" women?

In some situation or another, Chinese people are always saying to me "foreigners date women that we think are ugly." And I'm always replying "Well, then doesn't that work out best for everyone involved? You avoid something you don't want and he gets something that he does?" Silence usually follows. (Of course the purpose of making that statement was not to actually comment on the taste of foreigners.)

But it has gotten me to thinking. What would happen if a foreign man wanted to make a market out of what Chinese men did not want? How do go about doing that?

What they won't accept:

1. Darker skinned women.

2. Women with freckles.

3. Women with hips.

4. Women that are. Rubenesque.

5. Sometimes, they don't want to be bothered with women over 28 (which I don't understand, because the vagina does not start to dry out until around 45- it should function just fine up until about then).

If you wanted to live the life of a scavenger, how would you do that? (I only care that the woman doesn't smoke and is not a "white tiger", nor missing pubic hair for any reason.)

There is one thing: I don't smoke or drink. I don't like bars. What I do do is: Read, Run, Weighlift, Play Piano, and follow SOME current events. How would you go about making a market out of leftovers if you were me? I was thinking about starting to scavenge at English corners (but past experience has shown that they were students who were mental-12-years-olds-trapped in the young, nubile bodies of 22 year olds).

The other thing is: I make a pretty good living teaching Chemistry and translating (on the side). I would like to find a college student / woman and give her SOMETHING LIKE an allowance. The amount that I would be willing to spend would be equivalent to however much it would be to have a hooker who was about a 6-7 overnight 4x / month.

What do you think, brothers?

[Nice Guy 99]

Making a market of "leftover" women?

Women that are. Rubenesque.I grok Rubenesque.

[Blank Check]

I messaged some girls via a Social website and one of them responded back. When I visited China recently, we met for the first time. Have to say she is a stunner. Beautiful, well educated, english speaking, self employed. For whatever reason, she was single. We spent a couple of hours together at dinner. She insisted to pay taxis, dinner everything and did not let me pay.

The Chemistry between us was magical. She invited me home the same evening. And we talked, and talked, and talked into the wee hours. We did not have a physical relationship at all, but I found myself enamoured with her. I slept in her apartment for the rest of the night, we woke up in the morning and were off shopping.

When it was time to say Good bye, it was emotional. She is one of the nicest, warmest and honest girls I have ever met. We are still in contact via email and messenger. And I long for that next trip, fearful of the unknown and what may come next.

So to those posts I have read about requiring 20 Grand to maintain a relationship, it is difficult to generalize that everyone behaves the same way. Not over the hill, fiercely independent. Such gems exist in the real world. I am neither caucasian nor rich, so that is not a factor by any means as some posters contend.

[BruceTea]

I messaged some girls via a Social website and one of them responded back. When I visited China recently, we met for the first time. Have to say she is a stunner. Beautiful, well educated, english speaking, self employed. For whatever reason, she was single. We spent a couple of hours together at dinner. She insisted to pay taxis, dinner everything and did not let me pay.

The Chemistry between us was magical. She invited me home the same evening. And we talked, and talked, and talked into the wee hours. We did not have a physical relationship at all, but I found myself enamoured with her. I slept in her apartment for the rest of the night, we woke up in the morning and were off shopping.

When it was time to say Good bye, it was emotional. She is one of the nicest, warmest and honest girls I have ever met. We are still in contact via email and messenger. And I long for that next trip, fearful of the unknown and what may come next.I'm sorry to hear that, buddy. I hope you two are still communicating and perhaps in the near future can be together.

I'm asian and I got to admit, I'm still looking for Miss Available. Haha, not Ms. Right, and definitely not Ms. Right-now, but a good and potential mate to have my kids. Your assessment of beautiful, well educated, english speaking, and self employed are perfect. I mean, get me one who's younger than me and I'll most likely talk marriage with her on the third date.

I feel for you, man. In China, finding one's mate is harder than getting arranged to what one's family feels is a good match. Not for the educated, modern, internet reliant young adults. Good luck and get er' done!

Wikki wikki wild wild west

[Sammon]

I messaged some girls via a Social website and one of them responded back. When I visited China recently, we met for the first time. Have to say she is a stunner. Beautiful, well educated, english speaking, self employed. For whatever reason, she was single. We spent a couple of hours together at dinner. She insisted to pay taxis, dinner everything and did not let me pay.

The Chemistry between us was magical. She invited me home the same evening. And we talked, and talked, and talked into the wee hours. We did not have a physical relationship at all, but I found myself enamoured with her. I slept in her apartment for the rest of the night, we woke up in the morning and were off shopping.

When it was time to say Good bye, it was emotional. She is one of the nicest, warmest and honest girls I have ever met. We are still in contact via email and messenger. And I long for that next trip, fearful of the unknown and what may come next.

So to those posts I have read about requiring 20 Grand to maintain a relationship, it is difficult to generalize that everyone behaves the same way. Not over the hill, fiercely independent. Such gems exist in the real world. I am neither caucasian nor rich, so that is not a factor by any means as some posters contend.With Chinese girls you are expected to make the first move towards sex. When I was living in China I made the same mistake initially. I had met this beautifull young girl working in the mall who could speak passable english. I started talking to her and she gave me her number. To cut the long story short I took her to dinner, clubbing etc for a few dates without making a move except some kissing and touching.

After a week or so we had dinner and walked to the nearest club. The club was not to open till 9PM. So I suggested getting a foot massage to while away the time.

The girl massaging her was asking about me. I could understand Mandarin although not fluent. Massaging girl wanted to know this girl's sexual experience with me. She replied that although we went out few times I never made a move to bed her. And she added saying maybe I was not sexually interested in her.

That night I made the move and was reciprocated nicely. We had a relationship lasted more than a year.

After that I did meet few other girls and I always made the first move and none said proverbial not till the 3 Road date.

So I would suggest go for it because in Chinese culture men make the move.

[Csun213]

I messaged some girls via a Social website and one of them responded back. When I visited China recently, we met for the first time. Have to say she is a stunner. Beautiful, well educated, english speaking, self employed. For whatever reason, she was single.I have actually met a girl almost just like your girl. I was introduced to her by a friend of mine who works in China. I am Chinese-American, have never been married and speak fluent Chinese. We hit it off right away, she was fun to be with and funny too. She does speak some English however we talked mostly in Chinese. She is well educated and owns a small dress shop. Where ever we go, I can see the guys just tripping over their tongue just looking at her which was great. When we go to a restaurant you can see the guys' head snapping around to watch her. I didn't think she was for me since she looks so young that I thought she was 24 or younger. It turned out that she was 29. I asked her why at her age she was still single. It turned out that both her parents were dead and she only have an older brother who was in the Chinese Army therefore do not put pressure on her to marry.

She said that since she makes a good living, she will not consider marriage unless she found someone who she really cares about and is also very picky. She wants someone with a college education, is kind, doesn't drink or smoke nor gamble, has a good temper (do not hit women) and if she can not find someone like that, then she is happy to be single.

I thought that it would be easy to find someone like that however I have found out that in China, it turned out not to be so easy.

[Blank Check]

I have actually met a girl almost just like your girl. I was introduced to her by a friend of mine who works in China. I am Chinese-American, have never been married and speak fluent Chinese. We hit it off right away, she was fun to be with and funny too. She does speak some English however we talked mostly in Chinese. She is well educated and owns a small dress shop. Where ever we go, I can see the guys just tripping over their tongue just looking at her which was great. When we go to a restaurant you can see the guys' head snapping around to watch her. I didn't think she was for me since she looks so young that I thought she was 24 or younger. It turned out that she was 29. I asked her why at her age she was still single. It turned out that both her parents were dead and she only have an older brother who was in the Chinese Army therefore do not put pressure on her to marry.

She said that since she makes a good living, she will not consider marriage unless she found someone who she really cares about and is also very picky. She wants someone with a college education, is kind, doesn't drink or smoke nor gamble, has a good temper (do not hit women) and if she can not find someone like that, then she is happy to be single.

I thought that it would be easy to find someone like that however I have found out that in China, it turned out not to be so easy.My life is a bit more complicated. Hence uncertainty looms large on my face. I do not speak any Mandarin, and only visit China. Today, I have no plans of settling down in China. Yes, we are in contact by email. She says she misses me a lot, and I do think of her quite a bit myself.

Even in this case, there is no pressure on her to marry. Seems like she is happy to be single until she finds Mr Right. She makes good money as she runs her own enterprise, and is not opportunist unlike most girls you meet. Certainly a first time for me where the girl paid for everything. Shame on me.

If business does not take me to Beijing soon, she will I reckon. Will figure out a way out of this conundrum.

[LukeSkywalker]

Looks like Charlie fits her requirements perfectly. He should go for it.

I found Chinese men, even the wealthy, up and coming younger guys, treat their girls terribly.


She said that since she makes a good living, she will not consider marriage unless she found someone who she really cares about and is also very picky. She wants someone with a college education, is kind, doesn't drink or smoke nor gamble, has a good temper (do not hit women) and if she can not find someone like that, then she is happy to be single.

I thought that it would be easy to find someone like that however I have found out that in China, it turned out not to be so easy.

[Loveasiangirls]

Looks like Charlie fits her requirements perfectly. He should go for it.

I found Chinese men, even the wealthy, up and coming younger guys, treat their girls terribly.I am not sure I agree. I think that most foreigners in China end up meeting the leftovers or the ones who have bad relationships. China, having a huge population, has a lot of everything. But I would not make that generalization.

I live in China and most of my friends are Chinese and many happily married. In general the girls have much higher expectations than western girls. I have some Chinese lady friends who sometimes date western guys and have my advice. They find western men stingy (want to go dutch on a dinner date) and not as caring (if the girl is sick the western BF may give her a call and tell her to take care while the Chinese guy will go over, bring medication and food). I am not counting the case where the BF (not husband) will buy the girl a car or an apartment, which a western guy will never do for a GF and hardly for a wife.

Most western guys in China only get to meet the unhappy ones.

[Clandestine782]

If you're a guy who is from the Slapaho tribe, maybe you'll find something in China. I would agree that most of the Chinese men are abusive.

I think the women here just like a lot of suffering. There is dick on every corner here. By rights, women should have stables of manhos built up.

But, much as in other countries, you will see women pass over decent men (who are not perfect but are not abusive and are willing to make some concessions) in order to find someone that beats their ass or is abusive in some way. Four examples just in the last year.

1. A guy in our office was a working guy, but didn't make much money. He had a girlfriend. She wasn't the softest to look at, either. But her parents split them up because they were not satisfied with his salary (and possibly with the fact that he didn't have property). If you know like I know, you know that most Chinese men do hit their women. If you know like I know, you know that most people can't afford property here. 15-20 years' of salary for a moldy little apartment? Does anyone want to calculate the probability that this guy's girlfriend was repartnered was a man who is going to beat her ass (and be able to get away with it because, as a propertied man, he has his choice of women)?

2. A woman that was one of our students was complaining that she and her husband had not had sex in two years (she had a 10 year old son with her husband) and that he was a big so and so professor and that he was always out sticking his finger in someone else's pie. I told her that she had two choices: She could have her parents introduce her to someone or find a sex partner (like the person in whose ear she was whining and who is typing this post). She said that she didn't want to do it, because she didn't want to become an "immoral person." So, she would rather try to win back the affections of someone who lost interest long ago, when there are OTHER CHOICES.

3. We have a teacher here in the office. He is a Chinese man, and a nice guy. So far as I know, he is single and I have never known him to be partnered with another person. He doesn't have the best salary, but he is an honest man and I think that he would be grateful to have a woman. We also have a girl here in the office who says that she does not have such a good situation with her boyfriend. Now, put it together: There are men all over this city- and even one that this stupid hobi. Tch sees in the office every day. She is still young, and she is passing over other choices to be with someone that she may regret being with at leisure.

4. There was a student at our school who was tall and darker. She didn't have such a nice face, but she had a really nice body. She suffered from a debilitating case of lazy assed niggeritis (even though she was a Chinese girl). She lived (and still lives) with her parents and is dependent on them in the same way that a 2 year old is-even though she's getting past her shelf life (nearly 28). Now, she has a body that is built for making babies, and even if she doesn't have the nicest face, I know that there would be SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE who would be willing to put up with her shit because she is at least able to bear children.

5. Every person who has stayed in China more than 12 days has seen a woman getting slapped around or mistreated in some way. I've lost count of how many times I've seen a woman getting her ass beaten. And ALWAYS by a Chinese man .

--http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/stories/girl-escapes-boyfriends-abuse-covered-with-infected-cuts.html

And yet you see such women going back for more. And yet I never yell or raise my voice or hit women, and I have really scavenge to find women.

[Gualtier Malde]

If you're a guy who is from the Slapaho tribe, maybe you'll find something in China. I would agree that most of the Chinese men are abusive.

I think the women here just like a lot of suffering. There is dick on every corner here. By rights, women should have stables of manhos built up.Very interesting observations, Clandestine. While the generalizations quoted above ("most Chinese men", and "women here just like a lot of suffering") are likely to be overly broad, I get your point and do see the sorts of things you are witnessing here.

I think there are a fairly large number of women here who will cross that "immoral" line when faced with a finger dipping husband and are otherwise unsatisfied at home. I have encountered many here. It is a rich (but dangerous) source of freebies.

Frankly, I think as a society, China is afraid of its women. With all my unhappily married freebies, I have found women who are incredibly smart, know what they want, and are willing to take risk and go for it. To me that is exactly what one looks for in a leader. The typically less smart, more risk averse, paranoid men will never let that happen. It's too bad, because China would be better for it if led by some of these women.

GM.

[Go Bass]

Hello,

I have never checked the China part of this site before.

Not to do with finding sex but want to know what is it like dating a Chinese women? I have date other Asian women but never Chinese.

[Admirer007]

I have experience with Chinese woman if you want to know please I'm me.


Hello,

I have never checked the China part of this site before.

Not to do with finding sex but want to know what is it like dating a Chinese women? I have date other Asian women but never Chinese.

[Teltel]

I have experience with Chinese woman if you want to know please I'm me.Admirer007 please tell us all, with your apparent vast experience with Chinese women we are all wanting to benefit from that experience.

I also note that most of your posts are offering to arrange Chinese women to live in with foreigners, is this your business as an agent?

Teltel

[BionicMan]

Admirer007 please tell us all, with your apparent vast experience with Chinese women we are all wanting to benefit from that experience.I also note that most of your posts are offering to arrange Chinese women to live in with foreigners, is this your business as an agent? TeltelSomebody has to do something for a living. Admirer007 has chosen to be a cyber pimp.

[SE Asia Joe]

If some body wants more info about Chinese woman, just PM me. If not, do not guess. I do no answer.WTF?

Cyber pimping all over the China threads instead of just posting on the classified ads section. And now you're getting shitty on us just because somebody called you out?

Amazing!

SEAJ

[LukeSkywalker]

As long as the women remain attractive enough, and know how to play the games, for guys to bring them presents, dinner dates, vacations, lots of hot sex etc. For free, it would be stupid of them to give up their freedom of choices to marry some guys who would impose constraints then lose interests in them sooner or later anyway.

When they can no longer attract anyone, they can always sleep with their rubber dolls and their huge vibrators.

[Moody]

5. Every person who has stayed in China more than 12 days has seen a woman getting slapped around or mistreated in some way. I've lost count of how many times I've seen a woman getting her ass beaten. And ALWAYS by a Chinese man.

--http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/stories/girl-escapes-boyfriends-abuse-covered-with-infected-cuts.html

And yet you see such women going back for more. And yet I never yell or raise my voice or hit women, and I have really scavenge to find women.Everybody knows, chicks dig the bad boys. It's nothing new and it's not exclusive to China.

[WildWily]

I will be in Bejing and Shanghai in the middle of October. Can anyone give me some advice of hotels to stay and clubs to visit.

[ToBeDetermined]

Very interesting and I totally agree with your point on "Chinese girls having much higher expectations than western ones".

Ethnically, I am half-Chinese and I have dated both Chinese and western girls, quite a difference but I cannot figure out which I would like to spend my life with. Always trade-offs, you know. But with freshness, any woman with an above-average looking and a smart brain can be fun.


I am not sure I agree. I think that most foreigners in China end up meeting the leftovers or the ones who have bad relationships. China, having a huge population, has a lot of everything. But I would not make that generalization.

I live in China and most of my friends are Chinese and many happily married. In general the girls have much higher expectations than western girls. I have some Chinese lady friends who sometimes date western guys and have my advice. They find western men stingy (want to go dutch on a dinner date) and not as caring (if the girl is sick the western BF may give her a call and tell her to take care while the Chinese guy will go over, bring medication and food). I am not counting the case where the BF (not husband) will buy the girl a car or an apartment, which a western guy will never do for a GF and hardly for a wife.

Most western guys in China only get to meet the unhappy ones.

[Ikksman]

I was browsing the forums, and chanced across an old discussion regarding why some Chinese girls sit sideways on western style toilets. An ex-girl friend of mine used to do this. I asked her and the answer is simple.

Some Chinese girls have very slim hips and the width of many western toilets is so wide that they feel uncomfortable (they feel as if they are going to fall in!). So they sit sideways as the width is less than the length, and their thighs easily straddle across the width!

Cheers,

Ikksman

[Pita123]

Such gems exist in the real world.Did you make it back to see her? If not, what's her number. HAHA

[Loveasiangirls]

I was browsing the forums, and chanced across an old discussion regarding why some Chinese girls sit sideways on western style toilets. An ex-girl friend of mine used to do this. I asked her and the answer is simple.

Some Chinese girls have very slim hips and the width of many western toilets is so wide that they feel uncomfortable (they feel as if they are going to fall in!). So they sit sideways as the width is less than the length, and their thighs easily straddle across the width!

Cheers,

IkksmanActually, the girls I know sit "over" the toilet without touching it when in public restrooms.

[ShangHangin]

actually, the girls i know sit "over" the toilet without touching it when in public restrooms.i've had overnight guests who will stand on the seat and squat versus sitting and peeing. yes, my toilet is clean. go figure.

sh

[Pita123]

I looked through the forum a bit and didn't find much information on a few things I'm curious about.

First, I work for a multinational company. One of the local employees is cute, good personality, we seem to have some good chemistry. I asked what she was doing for dinner and she said she had plans to go visit her (female) friend who was cooking dinner. But she suggested the next time I am here we should get some dinner and do some drinking. We drank before in a group of co-workers and she knows I can drink. So how prevalent is it for a Chinese woman to hook up with a visiting foreign co-worker? I mean is it something I should consider? If I were to make a bit of a pass when we are both drunk and out by ourselves, is this likely to become internal gossip if she declines the advances?

Second, I met a Chinese engineer in Singapore on Badoo. She relocated to Singapore and is working for a local company. Good English. Been in Singapore a bit less than a year. Face is about a 6. 5 but body is a 9. We went out a few times and then she came to my place. We watched a bit of Sex and Zen 3D and started to fool around. Ended up in bed. She's a starfish. Doesn't move much. I have to guide her to the little' guy. BJ skills non-existant.

About 2 months later she asks me what I'm doing at 10PM at night. I tell her having some dinner near my place. She says she finished shopping. I ask if she wants to come see me. She does. So we meet at the train and walk back to my place. I open a few beers. We watch a bit of subtitled Seinfeld at her request. We end up making out and then moving to the bedroom. Again, starfish.

So I think she enjoys being with me as just a friend with benefits. That would be fine if the benefits were as good for me as they are for her. So any ideas as to how to get a Chinese girl to be a bite more randy?

[Blacklisted]

I think the first girl will likely be discreet, but it would help a lot if you provided age details. Especially for the second one. If she is young then starfish is not abnormal. If older, then prob won't change. If young lot of potential.


I looked through the forum a bit and didn't find much information on a few things I'm curious about.

Been in Singapore a bit less than a year. Face is about a 6. 5 but body is a 9. We went out a few times and then she came to my place. We watched a bit of Sex and Zen 3D and started to fool around. Ended up in bed. She's a starfish. Doesn't move much. I have to guide her to the little' guy. BJ skills non-existant.

About 2 months later she asks me what I'm doing at 10PM at night. I tell her having some dinner near my place. She says she finished shopping. I ask if she wants to come see me. She does. So we meet at the train and walk back to my place. I open a few beers. We watch a bit of subtitled Seinfeld at her request. We end up making out and then moving to the bedroom. Again, starfish.

So I think she enjoys being with me as just a friend with benefits. That would be fine if the benefits were as good for me as they are for her. So any ideas as to how to get a Chinese girl to be a bite more randy?

[Lurkingdog]

I followed some of the thread about Chinese women having high expectations (which seems to translated pretty directly to "materialistic" expectations). I have been posting some of my experiences in P4P but had a very recent experience that sort of mystified me (alternatively, maybe I'm just over thinking this and I should just take it at face value) and so I wanted to ask for the collective wisdom of the group.

I've had several visits with a "foot massage" girl (I'm half-Chinese and not a very good Chinese speaker) and we've developed some chemistry where we have fun spending time trying to communicate with one another (usually successfully) with the help of my phrase book and her smart phone that has a translation app on it. I've seen her in her business place three times now. The first time she came to my hotel (last March) , it was at about 2:00 AM after her shift was done. We "chatted" for awhile and then when I asked her if she wanted to stay, sleep, play, all of the above, she said "no" and left. I was very curious about this behavior, that is, if she wasn't interested in seeing me or making any extra money, why did she make the considerable effort to visit me at the time she did and then leave shortly thereafter. I posted my experience on the Hangzhou board where some of the contributors offered their thoughts, but I was still puzzled. I returned back to Hangzhou this week and I thought to text her. She immediately responded, told me her new location, and after a modest bit of translation work, I caught a cab and visited her (by the way, her massage is to die for. It's really, really good). This "reunion" massage was even better than the two outstanding massages I had from her in the past. During our time, I asked her if she wanted to get together outside of the massage facility and she readily agreed to come to my hotel the next day. She arrived right on time and we started to communicate in our awkward but still enjoyable way. When it came to trying to become more intimate, she stopped me. So, in trying to respect her boundaries, I stopped and asked if she didn't want to have sex because she was "morally opposed" (however that might awkwardly translate). She had mentioned wife and husband and stuff like that in her replies but she's told me very clearly that she likes me and that she does NOT have any partner. She probably in her late 20's early 30s. Her response sort of baffled me. Rather than say anything of the sort, she asked if I would buy her a gift. So then I thought, okay, this is just P4P, and I'm obviously not opposed to that, so I asked her how much her "gift" was going to cost. Thinking that she was being euphemistic. She wasn't, she was really interested in a gift. And even still when I tried to pin her down on cost, she really didn't provide any figures. It was only when I suggested what I thought was a reasonable amount of money and suggested what gift she might be interested in buying with that money, that she consented. And we had a great session.

So after that somewhat long-winded intro. My question remains was this just a "non-pro" not knowing how to go about setting her price or was this a Chinese woman wanting a new boyfriend to give her a gift. Any thoughts or sights would be very welcome.

LD

[Pita123]

I think the first girl will likely be discreet, but it would help a lot if you provided age details. Especially for the second one. If she is young then starfish is not abnormal. If older, then prob won't change. If young lot of potential.The former is around 28-32 and the latter is 26. Both are well-educated professionals in the IT industry. Very good English.

[Sammon]

I followed some of the thread about Chinese women having high expectations (which seems to translated pretty directly to "materialistic" expectations). I have been posting some of my experiences in P4P but had a very recent experience that sort of mystified me (alternatively, maybe I'm just over thinking this and I should just take it at face value) and so I wanted to ask for the collective wisdom of the group.

So after that somewhat long-winded intro. My question remains was this just a "non-pro" not knowing how to go about setting her price or was this a Chinese woman wanting a new boyfriend to give her a gift. Any thoughts or sights would be very welcome.

LDThis girl is really playing you. She is pretty old by Chinese standards where she knows the in and out of the deal. Having lived in Shenzhen and dated several young girl friends I should know who is non-pro and pro. She is definitely playing you trying to see what you know. When you offered money she readily jumped in the sack. This clearly shows she has done this before many times.

In Shenzhen I have met several young province girls who are naive. In general they are looking for steady bf who supports them and their family. Sex is not a problem for them as long as they are not virgins.

These girls also get corrupted after a while. Clear case is I used to get regular full body massage from a pretty girl with big boobs. After getting to know me she used to deliberately rub her boobs on me as an act of regular massage. Later I asked her if she wants to for dinner and she agreed. First date was dinner only. Second date was to a club and dancing only. Third date we went to a massage place to get foot massage. The guy massaging asked her about our relationship etc and also asked if she slept with me. I know it is bold but that is the culture. To which she replied she does not know why I never asked her. Although I could not speak perfect mandarin I could understand some. Later I asked her to come to my place and we had sex. No money was mentioned and none given. After that we had a good relationship and whenever she is off she used to stay with me.

Fast forward to about six months. During this time she got a lucrative position at Macau casino. It was on contract basis and she made lots of money sleeping with guys on the side.

When she called me I asked her to come over. Right away she asked me how much money I would give her. After that since I already had other girlfriends I did not bother.

[Jj1973]

HI there, this may seem like a bit of a silly question but I am intrigued how so many of you go about finding these freebies or regular service providers that offer better rates for going directly to them rather than through a sauna or such like.

The reason I ask is that I spend about 10-15 days a year in China, mainly shanghai, guangzhou and qingdao and am getting tired of the old standard service from girls at manhatten etc. What I would ideally like is to have someone there (I don't really care what they do when I am not around) that I can call upon when I am there who will come round and give me a great service at my hotel and then perhaps spend some time with me during the day as well enjoying the city. Shopping, site seeing etc.

Prices should be reasonable.

I am british born but of indian origin. Could that be the problem.

The way some of the forum members write their reports it may appear that being caucasian is a big advantage in Chinese eyes as many seem content to have a foreign "white" boyfriend.

Hope someone can shed some light or am I missing a trick.

Jack

[Jj1973]

Sorry, just following on from my earlier email.

Ideally someone married or just looking for a friend with extra benefits (both ways)

I am 40 years old and I've been told that I am good looking.

[Lurkingdog]

This girl is really playing you. She is pretty old by Chinese standards where she knows the in and out of the deal. Having lived in Shenzhen and dated several young girl friends I should know who is non-pro and pro. She is definitely playing you trying to see what you know. When you offered money she readily jumped in the sack. This clearly shows she has done this before many times.Sammon. Thanks for your thoughts. Your explanation was pretty much what I thought, but the thing that still puzzles me is that she had ample opportunity to "name her price" and she never did. I would have assumed that "having done this many times before", she would have known exactly how much she wanted and what amount was expected and I didn't get this impression at all.

LD

[Pita123]

Sammon. Thanks for your thoughts. Your explanation was pretty much what I thought, but the thing that still puzzles me is that she had ample opportunity to "name her price" and she never did. I would have assumed that "having done this many times before", she would have known exactly how much she wanted and what amount was expected and I didn't get this impression at all.

LDI don't know how we have determined that she has "done this many times before". My guess is that she doesn't see herself as a hooker. Hence she won't name a price and perhaps doesn't even know what the going rate is. I don't think she's playing you as in she isn't trying to trick you.

[Mmlouie]

"name her price"Name her price would constitute her as a hooker, yes? It is her way for trying to determine just how serious you are with her with the amount of the present that you will give her, it is the Chinese way. IMHO, of course.

Mmlouie

[Lurkingdog]

I don't know how we have determined that she has "done this many times before". My guess is that she doesn't see herself as a hooker. Hence she won't name a price and perhaps doesn't even know what the going rate is. I don't think she's playing you as in she isn't trying to trick you.Thanks for your thoughts, Pita. I don't know whether or not she has "done this many times before", that's why I left the statement in quotes from Sammon's reply. I think I agree with your statement that she wasn't trying to trick me but I guess I could still be "being played" in the larger sense.

LD

[Lurkingdog]

Name her price would constitute her as a hooker, yes? It is her way for trying to determine just how serious you are with her with the amount of the present that you will give her, it is the Chinese way. IMHO, of course.

MmlouieSo, Louie, what you're saying is that if you buy the girl and "expensive gift", it's an indication to her of how serious I am about wanting a relationship rather than just a "roll in the hay?"

LD

[Pita123]

So, Louie, what you're saying is that if you buy the girl and "expensive gift", it's an indication to her of how serious I am about wanting a relationship rather than just a "roll in the hay?"

LDSounds about right. And even if it is just a roll in the hay, it allows her to feel that she isn't a cheap hooker.

[Mmlouie]

Sounds about right. And even if it is just a roll in the hay, it allows her to feel that she isn't a cheap hooker.U got it! The more $ you shelled out, the more she could think herself out of the "hooker" category. Don't do it, is not worth it. IMHO of course.

Mmlouie

[Pita123]

U got it! The more $ you shelled out, the more she could think herself out of the "hooker" category. Don't do it, is not worth it. IMHO of course.

MmlouieNo, that isn't the point. The amount of the gift isn't the real key unless it is too small. The key is gift vs outright money. Taxi money vs payment for sex. Not saying he should do it, but the idea is maintaining face.

[Mmlouie]

No, that isn't the point. The amount of the gift isn't the real key unless it is too small. The key is gift vs outright money. Taxi money vs payment for sex. Not saying he should do it, but the idea is maintaining face.To each his own and like I said, IMHO!

Mmlouie

[Genuis8]

Lurkingdog, IMHO you are being played by the foot massage girl. You behave like a gentleman, and that is correct and good for you, as a person in China (and anywhere). The important thing is that (like anywhere else in the world, especially in China) THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. As long as you are willing to spend the money, and you feel that you are getting value for money spent, then there is no problem! If you do not play their game, just be yourself, and spend your money however you like. You are in control. If you start spending money because they demand it, then, cut your losses and go find the next one.

[Lurkingdog]

Lurkingdog, IMHO you are being played by the foot massage girl. You behave like a gentleman, and that is correct and good for you, as a person in China (and anywhere). The important thing is that (like anywhere else in the world, especially in China) THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. As long as you are willing to spend the money, and you feel that you are getting value for money spent, then there is no problem! If you do not play their game, just be yourself, and spend your money however you like. You are in control. If you start spending money because they demand it, then, cut your losses and go find the next one.Thanks for your thoughts, Genius. I feel that I received sufficient value for my money. It wasn't a bargain but it wasn't outrageous and, even if it were a polite fiction, it seemed as though there was a connection there. That's sometime all one is looking for in this type of activity.

LD

[Lurkingdog]

To Genius and all of the others who have provided me with your insights, if you want to entertain yourselves by reading the gory details, it's on the Hangzhou board. You might want to go back to March when the story really begins. If not, that's cool, too.

LD

[TomyWood]

Based on my experience in this highly regarded field, I can say with absolute certainty that the type of girl you should be seeking for 'a good long term relationship AND eventually marriage' must be drawn from the following pool of females:

- Born under the starsigns Horse, Rooster, Hamster or Snake (Girls under the other starsigns are more likely to provide only Bad or Average long term relationships and in some cases, only good 'short term' ones.

- A firm believer in the Egyptian Sun God Ra (you'd be surprised how many there are in China. They may even attend an underground Church of Ra. If you could join I imagine it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel)

- Eyes must be between 1. 5 inches and 2 inches apart. Any closer means there is high likelihood of 'gold diggery' and any wider high likelihood of 'skull duggery'. Avoid.

Freebies and girls met online should also be avoided at all costs, as there is a high chance of mental irrationality, given that they're willing to be enjoyed by us without adequate and well-deserved payment.

Sincerely hope it helps!Sincerely I admire the one who made this reply and his belief seems a little ancestor.

[Silk789]

Hi guys,

I am going to to tavel to China tomorrow for two weeks, and therefore I look forward to meet some girls, hopefully freebies.

It will be my first trip to China, and for that do you know some god Internet datingsites to help me to get contacted with some girls?

Best regards,

Frank