View Full Version : Samus Aran in Thailand
Samus Aran
07-24-04, 21:23
SA is on the comeback trail.
Too much nonsense going on for SA to stay out of the game.
Firstly, Sex Review getting all high and mighty about guys helping these poor girls screw over an innocent farang by helping her write sappy emails is unnecessary. SR, as SA has always said, "Do not get involved in the lives of these girsl in any way, shape, or form." Let them do what they do. It isnt any of your business. Thats right, do em and move on. Who cares if they lie to the farangs. Who is more stupid here, the girl or the guy for falling in love with a hooker who has given him a couple of orgasms? Ask youself that. Juices comment about believeing nothing that these girls say is what you all should be heeding.
This big schlong guy is silly. But if he is doing the game correctly good for him. However, after seeing pics of his wrinkly wood, SA would say that it looks more like a sapling instead of the mighty oak that he so proclaims. As we all know, things like memory loss, hair problems, shortness of breath, [CodeWord112] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord112) problems, etc... come with older age. Oh, did SA forget losing eye sight and numbness in the fingers and extremities. CAuse that is certainly is the case for Schlong. When he looks down there without his bifocals he sees a blur and with little feeling left in his fingertips he thinks he is really touching the trunk of an oak tree.. And, maybe he doesnt where his hearing aid when he is out partying and cant differentiate between the words liltte and large.. Schlong, didnt you know everybody has large packages in Thailand!
SA is back from the USA where it seems that everybody is getting bigger around the waist and growing a second and third chin. How can they not. When you go out to eat they serve you portions truly fit for a king. Its not a plate of food they serve you but more like a trough of it. It literally looks like we USA people are burying our heads in these plates and chomping away like pigs!
The photo section is still not worthy of second looks. SOme of you even give the photographers the "two thumbs" up for their subjects! Yuck.... Maybe something wrong with the lenses being fogged up cause there isnt anything in their getting above a one star on the SA scale. And one star is generous only because no stars is not a choice. And, SA still has a difficult time with you guys wanting fotos of these girls to torment yourselves when you go back home. If you need fotos of girls to masterbate too, get a good quality xxx movie. Hell even bad quality will be better than anything SA has seen in the photo section.
Well SA is back. MAybe in a little more toned down manner but SA will keep everybody straight.
Samus Aran
PosterLion
07-25-04, 03:20
SA,
Thanks for the read. It's good to have a laugh so early in the morning. Glad you're back.
poster...
Welcome back, SA, and do you have any pearls of wisdom about American women now that you've spent a small bit of time among them in their native habitat as opposed to in your neck of the woods?
SA:
Good to see you back:
On the positive side, it is good to see you slap down some serial offenders like the pathetically mixed up Sex Review. Unlike you, however, I feel Big Slong is a breath of Viagra laced fresh air.
Some negatives:
Had you no pizzas back with your mommy?
Speaking of PL and writing, go check out www.cgmoore.com. Is Moore the very worst writer to write about Thai skanks and the losers who use n abuse em; if not, he must be very very close. Maybe PL has a chance after all. If C G Moore can get away with it, why not Posterlion.
Hey, I also posted those photos on the Thai Photo board to move it forward and not as some form of homage to Pattaya's sperm catchers.
JuiceSpike
07-25-04, 06:49
Samus,
Right on.
juice
Samus Aran
07-25-04, 11:10
Furthermore,
Recently there was an article in the Bangkok Post concerning the beautifying of Bangkok streets. The PM of Thailand was so impressed by cities such as Singapore that he is interested in removing the unwanted and eye sore street signs that crowd the sidewalks in Bangkok. You know the ones right in the middle of the walkways that you must walk around and if short enuff can walk under. Usually you can find beggars and stray mangy dogs using them as sun relief on occasions. Now, SA agrees with the PM that these signs should be removed. But, is this really going to beautify the city? What about those unsightly electrial wires that are at face level and just dangling with electricity? Who was watching these people install these signs in the first place? Was anybody thinking? Is this all that will take to make Bangkok look like Singapore? Part of Bangkok's charm is its lack of order and planning that makes for good talk and laughs. If the streets in Bangkok are to be truly cleaned then the PM could also add on the "to do" list the following items:
1. Love sick aging farangs walking hand in hand with his "thai great granddaughter" in public should be immedaitely rounded up and packed away in the paddy wagon. SA prefers the unsightly signs.
2. Shirtless men and even worse shirtless big gutted men prancing around the streets of Pattaya should be fined and ordered to put their XXXXXXXL shirt back on and given an immediate 3 day in house confinement without any Big Macs or Large Supreme Pizzas.
3. Finally, those dressed downed, un showered, tied dyed young guys who get their wigs drealocked must be ordered to attend a weekend market and at least spend more than 100 baht on their wardrobe. This is a real disgiusting eye sore in the city. ITs really sad cause you very rarely ever see a Thai dressed like this. If so, it is usually the ones who are drugged out and homeless under those unsightly street signs. So, by removing the signs in effect you may be getting rid of someones house. But these tie dyed marijuana smoking dudes gots to go.
Domino:
SA has never read C Moore book. But from the reviews given in this forum SA doesnt see the need to waste the cash. Cause, SA doesnt buy into that kind of fantasy world. SA knows the truth on how to handle Thailand. CMoore books are for the tourist who wants some type of fantasy and a script to follow when in Thailand. His books are for the wimps. Tough guys come to the Samus Aran section fo the WSG to get the real deal on how to do Thailand. Shlong is cool. SA likes his style but there is room to give him crap. All that should have been taken lightly. ANd, your pics were nasty! :-) But, everyine needs dick so SA is glad it was u fulfilling her dream.
Joe Z:
SA isnt sure if the girls in USA have sex anymore. SA was told they just aint into it. At least in SA's neck of the woods. Dont get me wrong some of the women are fine but SA thinks that having fun isnt in their agenda. Looking good, shopping, attending country club events seems to be more of their liking. Getting naked isnt soemthing they think about. Unless, these wives are bored with their hubys and have taken on the pool cleaner as their lovers. Hell, their hubys work so much they dont have enuff energy for their wives so they are probably fucking around. But, the people in USA are good eaters. They now advertise 3 dominos pizzas for $15. Wow! Used to be 2 for 1 now its 3 for 1.
A little side note, on the flight back to USA, SA was seated next to a rather large USA woman. She was complaining because on the other airline she usually flies they serve you 2 meals while crossing in the Pacific instead of the one on this airline. So, if any of you big eaters need those extra calories cause you feel you might slim down and that you you are burning the calories too quickly being crammed into some skinny airline seat, fly Asiana cause they feed you all the time. A smorgasboard in the sky!
SA was at the emporium again today. And, still the amount of "couples" is growing. Signs should be posted at the entrances of the building stating, "Overaged men and young thai girl fraternizing not allowed on premises." SA thinks it turns off buyers.
Anyways, just another weekend in Bangkok gone by.
Samus Aran
JuiceSpike
07-25-04, 16:44
Samus,
Remember this: it is not what you say but how you say it. You have a good message but how you say it is almost more important that what you have to say...
There are many guys out there that despite the warnings about Thai bar girls and some having being "screwed" with lies and taking their money will be defensive and sensitive to your message. Maybe this is because they want to believe something that is not true. They don't want to beleive that a prostitute just took them for a ride. Its been said in many forums that it is incredible how many Farangs with education and means fall for the bar girls so easily and so deeply.
To me, when you are in Thailand you cannot look at things from a western perspective, you have to look at it from their perspective: get as much as you can, lie to get what you want, tell them what they want to hear to get what you want and use sex to get what you want.
Good to see you back....
juice
Terry Terrier
07-25-04, 19:00
SA
WB
What a f*****g breath of fresh air.
Samus Aran
07-25-04, 21:19
Juicer,
SA is in total agreement with you. When SA bashes on the scene in Thailand in effect SA is ruining someones fantasy. A newbie or for that matter even experienced dudes dont realize that they mean nothing to these girls other than a means to an end. That is fine.
What are the girls thinking about during the moment. Are they thinking that this guy is a terrific fuck? Or he is such a hansum man? Or I want to have babies with this portly farang? No, they are thinking that this is some...
"pathetic white dude who flies all the way around the world to get off and I am going to find a way to get as much money off this guy as possible. I will tell him I am new so he think I am clean and not have many men. And I wish he would cum quickly cause he is squishing me. And his dick is really small but I will tell him it is huge. (Schlong) I will fake some moans and grunts to think he his giving me pleasure. And, I will fake an orgasm cause that is what they want to do to me. He wants me to tell him he gave me multiple orgasms. He probably wants fotos of me so he can take them home and whack off to them. Sick guy. But I will do it for him for extra cash. Why do we have to eat this western food crap when I would be happy with a plate of noodles. He could give me the xtra cash instead of some big restaurant. I am embarrased to be in public and have to hold his hand so all my countrymen will label me as a working girl. I will play the Julia Roberts for him though. I will tell him he is the best cause he will pay me to be his little girlfriend."
OK, SA took the hookers persepctive.
The love sick guys perspective:
"This girl is the first chic I've been with in a long time. She loves my penis and cant get enuff of it. Look she is moaning with pleasure and is really into it. She tells me she loves me. Should I quit my job and move to Thailand to spend my life with this little girl? Should I drop my $100k job and move to some rice village in BFE Thailand. Oh she is looking so lovey dovey at me with those eyes. Because she offered to have sex with me she must love me. I kiss her better than anyone. She is so passionate about her work. I will give her anything she wants. I will take her shopping at the Emporium and sit and eat a meal in some fancy restaurant. She must be poor and sad to have to be doing this kind of work. I am worried about her. When I go back home I will make sure she is taken care of. She won't screw around on me if I send her money each month. She won't have to work. She will be mine cause I send her money. I will claim her. She wouldnt lie to me. She is so honest with her feelings. I give her orgasm after orgasm. She wants to lie in bed and cuddle with me. A wifey experience. No other guy makes her moan like I do. I am the best fuck she has had. (since 2 hours ago). I will take her all around Thailand and make her my guide. She wants me to fotograph her naked so I wll have memories of her and display my trophies on the wsg. She is the one for me."
Obviously, this is not case for all the guys. Those experienced guys and know the game are thinking "OK get down to business. I have an appointment in 30 minutes. Start performing on me. Dont talk, dont complain. I want head and then I will turn you over and we will have sex. There are no shopping trips and dinners. When your time is up you will take the cash and walk out of mylife. There is no cuddling or kissing. No phone numbers, addresses or emails. Huh, I dont even want a foto. You are a true prostitute and as such I will treat you as one. You will perform sexually on me and I will pay you for it. Contract terminated."
Now this is really what is going on in the minds of the players in this game. You can choose the one you want to be. Some love sick dude who cant believe that any girl having sex with him would actually lie about anything. Or...
The guy who knows the scam and isn't going to take part in it in any way shape or form cause he knows the little tricks that these girl pull and doesnt want to be caught up in it. He is a love em and leave em guy and truly knows the outcome in getting involved with a bar girl relationship. He treats her like any sexually act with a hooker in any other foreign country. Sex and pay. He stays clear of all the entanglements.
SA is not saying to stay away from Thailand. Not at all. Just warning what the sex game is all about. SA doesnt advertise to be nasty to these girls. No, in fact be nice but don't be schmuck about it. It is ok to have loveless sex, pay for it, then forget about it. There is no shame in it all. Of course Juice, this is where SA is exposing the fantasy for these guys and where fiction books glamourizing the scene in Thailand can actually be dangerous.
SA has to mention GettingTangs post in one of the sections calculating the size of Schlongs penis by performing mathematical equations by looking at posted fotos to actually prove that schlong is more like a cocktail weenie. Excellent work GT. Had SA laughing.
Samus Aran
PosterLion
07-26-04, 00:48
I've never read any Moore books either but hey, if it's all about appeasing a fantasy then I might as well take an Eastern attitude and provide every humble service possible. I mean jeeze, the closest thing to being a Thai Ho must be being a falang writer. I hope everyone utilizes the 3F procedure with my books. After all, I only need you to buy them once. What!
I'm starting to think I might have seen Samus on many occaisions because he seems to make it to the Emporium quite frequently. I go there to check the books at K bookstore and I also see the growing population of unmatchable couples. Samus is correct on this observation.
On a side bar, I don't think I'll be going to the Emporium too much longer. I've discovered a used bookstore on Khoasan Rd. that is so much more (not to be confused with Moore) better.
I recently unearthed a hardback copy of "The Prophet" by Kahlil Gibran (fucking A fantastic book) for B150. Besides, there are plenty enough unmatchable couples loitering at Khoasan to satisfy my needs.
poster...
PL: The Prophet was a good book for the 1970s. Went well with Leb Red, free sex, acne and Aghan black. But most of us have grown out of our adolescence.
I think your writing needs a lot of work. But so does C G Moore's. You shouild browse his shit at a bookstore. There cannot be a worse writer in Thailand.
Thai hookers, after a while, resemble used cigarette butts, or the morning after dregs in a wine glass. Think about it.
Actually, I'll recommend one book from Moore -- that's "Heart Talk" which is an interesting collection of Thai language phrases about emotion. PL, you might find it a useful addition to your language study, and if nothing else it might lead to some intruguing conversations with your girlfriend about which of the phrases in it are actually in use and which are archaic.
Samus: I feel you would be better in the Thai Women section. I also thought you were a bit heavy on Domino's pizzas ( a low shot that, shame on you). Have you ever been at one of those feeding fests, called Pattaya buffets? Actually, I now think Pattaya is the best place in Thailand, except for pussy and the beach and the people who go there. The food could also be better.
SA: I want to do a video of you. A day in the life. SA goes to Pattaya, meets pregnant beer guzzlers, buys bar girl a present, gigolos female American tourists in Domino's, falls in love. That kind of thing.
I also think we should have a Samus Aran Memorial Prize. Only Thai hookers are eligible to enter and all they have to do is take Juice Spike, SA or Freeler for a ride. Failing that, we should have a Thai GFE scam of the month.
Samus Aran,
I thank the puzzy Buddah that you made it back. And not a minute too soon.
As you can see, YOUR forum has recently been polluted with poetry, love stories, and other falsehoods.
There was even a fool who said that some thai skanks would walk in front of a train for a falang.
What B.S.
What a sucker.
Don't adjust your style for anyone, SA.
If your gonna go, Go hard, Go long, and Go strong!
Old Thai Hand
07-26-04, 13:55
sa,
i've been wearing my hairshirt and whipping myself senseless for throwing a scare into you. i took myself too seriously and was a jerk. i realized after our pms that your were a regular guy, very much speaking with 'tongue in cheek' most of the time. i pm'd domino to tell him who i think the real danger is, but won't start another war by naming names. let's just say that ****philia, unlike other things is not a joking matter.
in honor of your humor and at times sensible warnings, i will walk shirtless, in speedo shorts and flip-flops with braided hair, hand-in-hand with a little brown monkey from surin down the center of emporium, joining the crowd of farang fools your point out all the time.
welcome back. so very sorry i shook you up so badly.
oth
PosterLion
07-27-04, 05:10
Domino,
Yeah, my writing always needs work. It's a constant evolution. I've never read a book about Thailand written by a Non-Thai National. I didn't want my intial viewpoint of Thailand to be tainted by an outsider. But I think I might browse a couple of this Moore fellows books now that he is being so widely criticised on WSG. It's must be time to read some foreigner fiction.
I'd recommend "Four Reigns" or "Many Lives" by Kukrit Pramoj or "Mad Dod & CO" by Chart Korbjitti for those interesed in reading Thai literature.
Your suggestions for the SA file sound interesting. I especially like "A Day in the Life of SA."
Oh Yeah, one last thing, not that it matters, but... "The Prophet" by Gibran was written in 1923. Is it the same book you refer too? I picked it up as a suggestion from the GF that said she read it when she was 14.
===
Joe Zop,
I'll give a look at your suggestion next time I make it to Khoasan. I like the idea of reading a few idioms. Thanks, I always like suggestions for a book. :)
poster...
PL:
The Prophet, same book, was very popular in the 1970s with people of my generation. I have fond memories of making love after reading it with the love of my life. That is something I would never get wrong.
As regards Thailand: you are an outsider, so it probably makes sense to see what other outsiders think. It is also easy for people like me to hatchet your writing, from a distance. But it is your writing, and your journey.
Just don't waste too much time on CG Moore. Or the Prophet unless you can get some reincarnated hippy chick to shack up with (Now that would be nice, very nice:)
And don't take too much heed of literary praise on this board, which is hardly a good cross sample of Middle America (or maybe it is;)
Also, it would be interesting if you could find out what makes people like Philo and SA tick. It is interesting for all the bs he gives and takes that SA soldiers on while others fall by the wayside.
Domino - I don't think SA would take too kindly to a "memorial prize" in his name - that means he would need to be DEAD (that's why it's MEMORIAL) :-) 3F-I-HATE-PATTAYA prize, maybe
JuiceSpike
07-27-04, 18:11
Samus,
You got it.... you said it well, even better than before. Thailand is a great place to get laid, play but leave it at that. I just love the sluts there...
juice
The Traveler
07-27-04, 18:32
SA
LOL, good points and I appreciate your new style.
You are straight on but there is something in between. I sometimes do a quick shot, pick a girl from a bar or beach road, fuck her and wave her goodbye. Just as you say.
But sometimes I prefer to have an all nighter or even stay more than one day with the same girl, that doesn't mean that I am a love sick dude. Same rules apply like for the quick shot.
But again, good points and you are straight on. Guys should think with their brain and not with their pecker.
Dinghy: My mistake. Let us start a new section. This is the SA section, so let us all grade out of ten SA's posts. I give his most recent a 7. I feel he is a little harsh on the lady and the "down to business" guy is Juice Spike, which is kind of cheating as he is only one guy.
PL: My take, for what it is worth. Thai writers are Thai (duh) and expats are expats. I don't know if an expat can go native as s/he is not native to begin with and so cannot catch the nuances. Do NOT buy CG Moore but merely scan him. He is that bad his writings belong in the Thai Photo section.
SA: Nearly missed your post.I should be away for the best part of 10 weeks with not much web contact. I will probably come up for air in Pattaya of all places. You keep those guys on the 3F and narrow, you hear.Your last rant gave me a few laughs.
As I was posting this, I noticed the it is back:(
SA,
Your report was somtimes funny but true.
you are definitly right when you write
about prostitutes or about the proffessionals girls in Thailand or in another country but there are also other TG 's you cannot lump them all together.
LOS has so many contradictory things. It is sometimes really hard to find out and understand it. But do we have understand it? Yes or NO ?
However,
as you know, the culture, the mentality, the belief, the way of thinking etc. is very different to us. Is our way better?
I don't think so. We prostitute ourself in one way
and we have to deserved the outcome
Sting
Samus Aran
07-27-04, 20:39
Sting,
Please notice that SA refers to these girls as bar girls or prostitutes. Not lumping the whole lot of them together. However, if you stick with the right attitude even if with a "non working " girl then you should be fine. But in some way they all want something. SA does agree with you on your second point. we all are prostitutes in some way shape or form. Working for some company, plugging away for some paycheck, when you really cant stand your profession or your boss. But, you stay anyways cause it puts food on the table. Is "our" way any better. Is selling your soul to some company the way to do it? Is taking out huge loans for a house, car, etc... the way to live? Working just to pay off the debt... Not sure. You slave away at some job for 15 years and then suddenly you wake up and realize,"Where has the time gone?" "Do people really care that I am the president of some compnay?" "Is my life any better by surrounding myself with material things?" "Will people remember me when I leave this job?" (You just replaced and forgotten.)
In SA's last trip back to USA, this is what SA saw. People accumulating more shit to put in their houses. People buying larger cars. Joining country clubs with astronomical prices. What is this all about? (Again SA is generalizing) People are buying these things to give themselves some instant gratification and to make themsleves feel better and superior than their neighbor. It is truly sad. Wanting and is a very powerful drug. Unfortunately, this is the way Thailand is headed. Very litle of this stuff will make you feel content. Why are the Thais always telling everybody how much something cost? My house was this much. This shirt was this much. My car cost this. Must be a cultural thing to show off and put others down who cant afford it or havent recieved their cut on some corruption scheme yet.
SA was watching some late nite tv in the USA. (Jet lag) All that was on were those infomercials on how (ho) to get rich. (Oh and the Girls Gone Wild stuff) To SA, this was saying that if you dont have wealth, you are nothing. The people who work their asses off for $40 k must be doing it wrong. Everybody should get involved in real estate and become rich and then you dont have to work. This is the meaning of these tv spots. Happiness does t come from within. (SA has been doing yoga for a year and it has made a difference. Getting involved in that ancient eastern religion stuff is great) Now SA isnt getting soft or anything like that. Finally, why do guys work? To get pussy! Even if it means flying to Thailand. In SA's opinion that is why we work.
Now Philo in the other section has left Thailand dissilusioned. SA has been disillusioned for years. Turned off by the whole scene. But, SA likes his work and the other things in Thailand. This shows that if one is coming to thailand for an extended length of time solely for sex, then you will be in for a rude awakening. Believe that this point has been hashed around before. Even PL sees the light that SA warned him about before his move. Again, SA is ruining the fantasy by exposing the realities of Thailand.
TT: Sooner or later SA will touch your nerve again and send you off scurrying for some shelter. But, in the meantime, SA is glad that you are not crying or throwing up a shit storm of insults.
Juice:
Just saying the truth.
Domino:
10 weeks? Where you going? Down into some Isaan Sadam spider hole? will you have a beard when you come up for air? Cant get 30 minute delivery from down there.
Samus Aran
PosterLion
07-27-04, 20:42
A THEORY ON WHAT MAKES SA TICK
I was lying on the bed reading a few pages of Chuang Tzu when a theory about SA popped into my head. How did this happen? I do not know. I can't for the life of me figure out how reading Chuang Tzu made me develop a theory about SA. Hmmm...
Maybe it is SA's persistence in reporting BS and taking BS. Chuang Tzu is chock full of persistent men looking for the WAY and I perceive SA in much the same light. He wakes up each day and is inundated with the eyesore of so many falang men walking hand in hand with their paid for love fantasies that he simply can't take it anymore. I can understand this as I must witness the same sight each day myself.
For instance, just today I saw this guy on the skytrain with his arm around one of these loving fantasies. They were so cute. She was dark brown (ala chocolate) and he was white as sheetrock with many beautiful tattoos decorating his shoulders (sic).
Their arms were both adorned with those little friendship bracelets that the BG's like to tie around their victim's wrist. It was pretty bad I tell you. It was not just one bracelet nor two, but it was three or four of them on each arm! The forlorn look on both their faces gave away not one hint of their undying love. It was like reading a book. He was thinking (why am I paying for this) and she was thinking (when is this going to be over) and the Thais on the train were all doing mental eye-rolling.
After recollecting this disgusting episode some five or ten seconds after reading Chuang Tzu, my theory about SA became obvious! He is simply tired of seeing the same eyesore I just described. He doesn’t really give a rat’s sphincter about the 3F method for himself. He just wants the rest of you guys to adapt it so he won’t have to look at you anymore!
I have to give him credit as an idealist of grand proportion. He has cut a very lofty goal for himself.
Chai Mai? :)
Poster...
Posterlion:
I was lying on the bed reading a few pages of Chuang Tzu when a theory about SA popped into my head. : Now that is a great start, a fucking great start. OK? But stop using the first person singular. You go rapidly downhill after that.
Chuang Tzu is chock full of persistent men looking for the WAY : who cares about this dude?
I perceive: bad word, as 1ball etc won't understand it.
SA ... wakes up each day and is inundated with the eyesore of so many falang men walking hand in hand : Wrong. He wakes up and reaches for his video game.
I can ... I must .. myself.... today I saw
They were so cute. good line
white as sheetrock ?????????
with many beautiful tattoos decorating his shoulders (sic). bad dude
Their arms were both adorned with those little friendship bracelets that the BG's like to tie around their victim's wrist. This sentence has potential.
It was not just one bracelet nor two, but it was three or four of them on each arm! Get the firing squad.
a rat’s sphincter: = rat's ass?
You gotta work harder on that wriitng dude? Have you funds for me to tutor you? I reckon if you pay me 1000 baht an hour for 20 hours a week:) Considering what I normally get, that is a real bargain. Grab it while you can.
On a more serious level, I think you and others have a lot to learn from SA: not his 3F bs but simply surviving and thriving in an alien culture which he has done quite well. It was interesting to hear from Philo again. These journeys are good if you survive them and don't get fucked up by them.
I spent a lot of my time looking for business opportunities in Thailand. And I looked hard. Guess how many I found? One. A big one.
Oh! The great American Thai novel. With Leonardo de Caprio in the lead. Spekaing of which: Samus: what books do you read? Do you get any tips on pussy hunting from Hollywood (Pretty Woman?)
Poster: Are you working to a time deadline? Have you thought of getting out of Bangkok? There must be more convivial places in Thailand for what you want to do.
Juice Spike: I am rather disappointed in the poor view you have of Thai women. Many of them have good hearts. The Beergarten ladies had your number anyway: two hookers, lots of extras to go.
SA: I think you are wrong. There is love to be found in Thailand. Exactly where I don't know but it is there. Somewhere! maybe over the rainbow.
JuiceSpike
07-27-04, 22:10
PizzaMan,
You wrote: "There is love to be found in Thailand. Exactly where I don't know but it is there. Somewhere! maybe over the rainbow..."
Very funny. You are one crazy dude.... lots of pinned up energy, the type a writer carries everywhere they go, eat, fuck and shit. Put it work: write short twisted stories about Thailand and send them to me and I will develop them into a movie...(no Leo on this one please)
Hey, I adore the Thai girls for short time only. Nothing wrong with that. My views are only directed to the slutty bar girls not to the general Thai woman population of course.
juice
Mr Spike
I am glad I met you as our meetings were very positive. Things are going very well for me. You will know I am trying to give Posterlion good advice, our poor lost soldiers, both of him. I am off soon and am "busy" packing. I will be signing off here in about 36 hours for a few months. If you are in Thailand later in the year, maybe we can meet up, same as last time.
Thailand, fukky fukky land, is not a challenge. Maybe I will go to Argentina: I hear there is pussy there. Bad karma. But what you told me about SA is good karma. He leads his life.
JuiceSpike
07-28-04, 13:16
Domino,
We shall meet again... in the meantime, have a good time travelling and stay sane.
juice
Spikey: Sometimes it is better to go insane, in an insane way.
SA: I am leaving you in charge of the shop while I am away. I wasted a few minutes today, reading the start o the SA thread. I got some good laughs. A few requests as we have never really been in big battles aganst each other (kinda odd that;)
1. Help the suicidal farang living in Thailand.
2. If ljohnson decides to make good on his promise to suicide, please do encourage him.
3. Please know that love exists, it is perennial and like me, herpes and God, it is everywhere. It looks like I have met a new gf so I might even play a lower profile than you when I reemerge. She is professional, nice and presentable. She is not a common Thai prostitute, the type the Thai photo trolls get escorted to the airport with. (Maybe there is a scam there with the Thai immigration dudes.
4. What is all this about Battle Royale. Why are kids killing each other after wartching a dumb (oops) video game?
5. How is the little piece of white American tail? Can Skinless ooops Domino have a cut of the pizza pie? (the pizza jokes realy [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) 1ball off now, poor guy)
6. Fancy meeting up in Pattaya later in the year?
7. Please go easy on Generation V.
JuiceSpike
07-29-04, 00:03
SA,
Nice post. I see that you are getting a little more philosophical about things...
Not all people work to get more things or to enslave themselves with debt. I work hard for the satisfaction I get not just the money. There are people out there that enjoy what they do (yourself) and money it's just a means to an end. One thing money can give you: freedom. As corny as it sounds, money is a way to buy freedom for yourself as it gives you options. The key thing for me is to like what you do.
Yeah, in some ways going all the way to Thailand to play and buy pussy it's a waste of money but a nice way to treat yourself to a vacation. I always try to combine my trips with play and some biz or something else so it makes more sense justiying the expense. Sometimes I look at my expenses for 3 weeks (4 times a year) in Thailand and I wonder... But, you only get to live once.
juice
SA - there is an old saying that you are invaluable to a company if you leave a hole behind when you remove your hand from a bucket of water.
Pesonally, I go to Thailand for entertainment. Just exactly what entertainment is the question. AND - The weight loss thing is pretty good too. I usually lose average about .5kg/day there. (That's sort of entertainment, too)
What with no good shows anymore... (but the lack of touchy-feely shows won't make me stop going either...)
SA:
I had to scroll down to get to your post and that is work. When I emerged as Domino, I took refuge in this santuary of saneness. Maybe we should all meet, Budda like, under a big tree. As long as we don't smoke the hash pipe.
Life! Been there, done that.
Isaan Saddam hole: Not this time, compadre. I have grown out of that and Juice Spike was a help. He is a focused dude and he has a reputation with the Beergarten dames. There was a funny incident when one of them presented him with his charge sheet. He is double pizza to go.
Life, money. You are right. It is all shit. I have enough money to live three lives, more if I am reincarnated as a Thai peasant. And for what? When I am with the Thai skanks, I feel sorry for them as I genuinely like them. But really only as a master likes his dog. If a guy is lucky enough to find love with one, I wish him well. In Pattaya, I noted the deaf and dumb talkers. I think it possible. If one gets the right lady, she will see, as many Pinays seem to, what the deal is and will give it all she has. But dreams are for others.
SA: My first stop is Siberia and I will see little of this board or any such shit. Dostoyevsky went to Siberia. He said a guy would return from there believing in either God or nothing (??). I think Thailand is similar, maybe "worse" for some. Juice Spike is firmly anchored. For those who are not, it can be a rough and dangerous ride. They have a few baht in their pockets, a few beers in their bellies, babes on their arms and they think "Life is perfect".
And so it is. For some of us.
Domino -
That last post of yours (just below) is a very nice piece of writing.
Seriously. In the right context, you are probably okay.
(I'm sure that is just what you want to hear from me.)
Have a good trip. Really. Enjoy. Relax. Have fun.
Ljohnson
ljohnson:M Please get the fuck out of this thread. OK?
Whatever you say, my love.
But I will miss you.
LJ
P.S. I'm telling you, dude. You are WAY too easy. Predictabililty will be your downfall. You gotta learn to keep people off balance.
I'd offer to teach you but I'm afraid I'd have to hurt you. (-:
Samus Aran
07-29-04, 10:17
Juice: was one of those days. Thailand getting less and less inspiring by the day.
The good news is that Sa got some new video games and couple of boxes of ju ju bees. Yummy.
Anyways, back on track now. SA read that Leather story Private Dancer. SA knows its been around awhile.
Well SA has got to say that if anybody has any inkling of getting attached to any bar girl for what ever reason, they had better read this story. We at this section can relate to so many of the charcters in the book. Bottom line on the story is that these girls are hookers and not girls to be romantically involved with. It had SA going yep... uh hum... exactly. even had the wording of sperm recepticle in the story a few times. These words get TT upset. TT is still under the impression that these girls like his company. Its all a crock of shit. They are paid to fake that they like you. They fake their orgasms. They make sounds that you want to hear. SA sugeests that you guys who have argued with SA over the years that the bargirls are really nice people and would never lie to you should read this story.
If you arent gonna trust in SA's advice to 3F these girls cause you think they love your company, then at least read this work of fiction and ask yourself if you have been a Pete character. Use these girls for your pleasure, be kind, pay them, and then let them go. What is so difficult with that?
SA seen a whole slew of relationshipping going on in the BTS that it just hurts me to see the guys doing this to themselves. Losers every one of them...
If you arent gonna subscribe to the love em and leave em style of fun in Thailand then at least read this story and hopefully you will have second thoughts about starting a relationship with a thai bar girl.
Samus Aran
JuiceSpike
07-29-04, 13:11
Domino,
Sometimes you are brilliant and there is no logic in insanity... Like a mountain bike with no brakes. Wear a helmet.
Siberia? LOL. Love it... And so it is for you.
juice
PosterLion
07-29-04, 13:44
DOMINO, I’D HIRE YOU TO TEACH ME CREATIVE WRITING BUT...
I can see that you are analyzing and critiquing excerts of my prose already. Why would I want to pay you 1000 Baht per hour to whitewash my fence when you are doing it for free? Is this why you have lost so many business opportunities (save one)? Do you always do the work before you get paid? This sounds something akin to paying with the buck before the bang.
Maybe you should read a little “Tom Sawyer.” It was written a while back by Mark Twain. :)
I must admit that while I am not working on a schedule, (well okay, I’ve got an easy twenty years), I am planning to exit Bangkok on 26 August. I’ll be going to Laos to check out the goods and the lifestyle for a spell, probably a month (Nueng Duen).
Don’t lay too low from the board now that you got yourself a girl. It appears wimpy. You should take a stand and tell her you gotta post on here and let the consequences fall where they will. Who knows? You might find another way to accomplish the 3F relationship method. After all, the triangle is the strongest geometrical form.
All you gotta do is tell her that you are saving the world from the likes of Traveler and ljohnson. I’m sure she'll understand. :)
Chai Mai?
Poster...
P.S. I am glad to hear that you have read some decent literature. I just read a couple of chapters from "Notes from Underground" today.
SA: Sorry for hijacking your thread. Some dudes want to put me in solitary as well. But that would leave the board to the Buddhist novices who can only goo Auuuuum in all their posts.
Juice: Insanity, like greed, is good. But now that old age makes my ego bigger and my dick smaller, it is time for some sanity, for a change. As a kinda holiday. Until I get back in shape.
Posterboy: I have read all the Russian classics. Dostoyevsky is my man. Try The Brothers Karamazov and you will see me in one of my earlier incarnations. Try Crime and Punishment and you will see a one dimensional hooker (and a kf who does the right thing and kills himself). Good smart ass points about the fence. Yes, a nice respectable lady is on the way. Love, l'amour:)
So Samus goodbye, I never found out your views on Battle Royale but I can live with that. In this incarnation at least.
Dinghy: I like your posts.
Domino the Duck.
PosterLion
07-29-04, 14:22
Dear Mr. D,
It has been good chatting with you. I respect your opinions and I hope you find a good path in Argentina if you are really going there. :)
One more Dostoyevskian suggestion: You should read "The Idiot." It has your name (and mine) written all over it. :) :) :)
Take care
poster
Postertlion: You still don't get it, do you? Dostoyevsky based all his stories and best characters on me. I broke my baby teeth on The Idiot, The Devils, The Gambler and all his other epileptic trivia. To make it easy for you, I am the father of The Brothers. Now, go and read the fucking thing and you will see. But stay way from Lonely Planet types as that will [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) Freeler off.
The triangle btw is only part of Euclid. And yes, I am also a big fan of Euclid, and the Islamic culture it spawned. However, I was a Jew in Grenada but got out before the real shit started. This explains why I like by The Penitent by Isaac Bashevis Singer.
I also like The Leopard because I rode with Garribaldi. I like Thomas Mann becasue I am intelligent and Balzac because I am God.
If you are not dropping too much yabba, also read Joseph Heller's Picture This.
Dickhead, Samus Aran: H-E-L-P
I can't swimmmm (and I hate Joseph Conradddddddddddd)
Posterlion: are you really RN? Man, this fucking acid is too much. Do I hear wedding bellllllls?
Nibu, are you there. I got a bad tab man.
Domino the Duck
PosterLion
07-29-04, 15:25
DOMINO
What is there to get my man? Are you trying to explain to me that the walls fall down? Jeeze. You seem to be quoting titles like Cliff's Notes. I have a sincere feeling you've never read any of these books.
You speak of Balzac like a real pro. You must have been the character that lost his ass to the prostitute only to be redeemed (much much later, after you were broke) by your wife because you were lucky that someone actually loved you. :)
Well there is nothing wrong with that, being that you broke your teeth on these stories, I have no doubt you are right!
Now: Go and read:
Sexus
Nexus
Plexus
Looking Backward
Beneath the Wheel
City of God
Life is Elsewhere
Immortality
Death in Venice
Satyrica
The Joke
Beneath the wheel
The Glass Bead Game
Stand Still Like a Hummingbird
Sons and Lovers
and
The Rainbow.
(Pardon my Cliff's Notes).
Once you've done that we can talk, because you will realize that I do get it. You ain't no different from the rest of us. :)
poster
Posterlion At least, this is a sensible flame war the only problem being SA. But you will have to suffer that as I will be away.
As regards your list: Miller: pure and utter shit.
Hesse: not much better. I did him in my acid days.
Mann: Wrong book. I like Faustus, very much, and The Magic Mointain to a lesser extent.
Futuristic bs: not my thing. Who was that dickhead we used to drop acid to, when not reading The Prophet? Oh well. Loong time ago.
DH Lawrence: Pure and utter shit. That guy sux big time. You drop big bronie points there dude.
St Augustine: Read him very many years ago. I liked him then, as he was fond of hookers:)
Ancient Greek shit. Yeah, roll on the Olympics.
I like Balzac's The Earth and Cousin Bette.
You write: "I have a sincere feeling you've never read any of these books."
I write: Yeah, I read none of them. I only wrote them;)
So that is it. Time to go out in the rain. No more quacking her for me.
Good luck in Thailand and Laos. Try to meet up with SA.
Domino the Duck.
Samus Aran: Thank you for your hospitality. Please find it in your heart to forgive me.
Byeeeeeeeeeeeeee
PosterLion
07-29-04, 16:10
D...
Ok, you are up to snuff. I kind of wish you would have liked Miller, but it's not the end of the world, just the possibility of a mutual satisfaction. Many critics critiqued him as someone that could not stop writing about hiimself. Sound familiar? Maybe that is why you want to critique my writing. I must admit that Miller was an influence on me.
Now I am thinking you might be the genuine article, a real and true literary major, or more precisely, someone that has had the luxury of having to much time on their hands.
Please take this as an utmost compliment. The only person I've ever met (besides you) that knew of these books was a woman in Bucaresti, Romania. She is the shit. You must be too. :)
Okay, I am finished with the false flattery and insincere flirtations. I'll meet you if you pay 2000 Baht, short time!
As for SA, I haven't decided yet. :)
PL...
P.S. One guy you forgot to rebuke me on was Milan Kundera. Maybe you have not read him. He is a Czeck author and you might just like him!
once again: Good luck in Argentina!
now get over yourself. :)
Posterlion
I ma not a literary major. I am a literary General (I have for long been a petty, if pedantic patron of the arts, or of certain artistes to be more precise). I like The Good Soldier Svejk and His Fortunes in the World War by Jaroslav Hasek, Czech and a fucking good one. You will see a thread in all the books I like. Go read Picture This.
I also love Romania, especially the part the Hungarians clain. If you do read The Brothers, you will see me in the father. "Everyone" does.
SA is a good man. He is a kind man. Go meet him.
Domino the Duck.
SA: I am really sad I am going to miss your thoughts on all this as I am sure they will make lively reading. As you rightly say, real men read Samus Aran, the real men's C G Moore.
SA: Why not invite RN into this select circle?
Domino,
You really have the hots for RN:D
With all due respect, Posterlion, please give me a break. If you've not met people who have read these then you've been hanging out with distinctly the wrong folks if you want to be a writer, as your list is the special 70s flashback edition of Literary Bohemia 101!
Let's see, you're missing Knut Hamsun, Camus, Nin, and Kosinski, to name only a very few who are usually on the same lists. Glad to hear that you know that Notes from Underground is "important" to a writer, but, jeez, that's baseline stuff.
And a real question, since you write an immense amount of poetry (which is, btw, nowhere near as well-crafted as your stories, no disrespect intended) is who else you're reading in that genre other than Gibran, who is a favorite of poetasters everywhere as he makes it all seem so easy to do, and nowhere nearly as deep as someone like, say, Tagore or Kabir, or Rumi, to name only a couple from the same general area of the world.
I thought PosterLion wanted to be a writer, not a critic or lit professor. There is zero requirement to have read any effing previous author in order to be a writer. A Big Round Goose Egg for the mandatory reading list (MRL) before putting pen to paper.
Do anyone seriously believe that if Camus goes unread, everything that person writes will be drivel? While exposure to various authors has its rewards, some of which can benefit a writer, there is no single "must read" list before you set down to your typewriter. I include Shakespeare and Dickens and Hemingway. I'll add Austen, Thackery, and that lot. Plus Tolstoy, Chekov, and Dostoevsky. Not a dang one of them is a mandatory read. Or any other single individual author. (Any author more recent isn't worth the time to type out.)
I will repeat: I won't argue that reading them isn't beneficial. It very well can be. But it just isn't some sort of absolute necessity. Lit teachers and posers come up with that gotta read or else all is wasted.
A well written story requires no credentials. It is it's own proof.
Tatoosh
Samus Aran
07-29-04, 23:42
Fellas:
Since we are naming famous literary subjects, SA would like to put his up his all time favorite list to see if any of you guys can match it. Here it goes:
Link
Mario
Yoshi
DK
Pikmin
Mewtoo
Pikachu
Captain Falcon
Kirby
Peach
Star Fox
Ganondorf
Banjo Kazooie
Truly some of the greatest characters of all time.
This is just the beginning. This was SA's true eductaion growing up. HAd not itme for Famous 19th century writers in college. SA was plugging away in Nintendo 101.
Amyways, can see that the SA section is heating up again and SA isnt even involved.
Posterlion: Stick to the english. You dont need to impress us with your limited thai. Most of us know what one month is so giving us a thai translation is unnecessary.
Its early AM and SA has got a yoga class to go to. Good news is SA will be moving closer into town over the next few weeks. The bad news is SA will have to see more of those love sick, heart pounding, glassy eyed "white as sheetrock" farangs proudly prancing around the streets of BAngkok with their hired great grand daughter. This is the ugliest site in Thailand and a big eyesore. Losers every single one of them and SA dont want to listen to any of you telling him that they are in love and that it is ok. Yucky.... Stinks up the city. Use the girls for what they were meant to be used for, paid sex. Shame on you fellas who have fallen for the charms of some hooker. Shame on you.
Samus Aran
PosterLion
07-30-04, 23:58
JZ,
I have read "Hunger" by Knut, but I have not read any of the others on your list. Hey man, I'll look them up now that you've listed them. They sound better than this Moore fellow.
Don't worry about offending me. I don't get flustered too easily and I admit that most of the stuff I write is just for passing time when I should already be passed out.
I started out late in life to be a writer. In other words I started about three years ago. It's just something that I do. I had a goal to get published and that has happened. Now I want to write a novel and maybe that will happen. I do appreciate your comments about my craftsmanship and I agree with them. It's pretty rare that I come up with something really good but that's ok. It's all about persistance!
I guess I have been hanging out with the wrong folks now that you mention it. But that's fine my me. People come and go, just like always. :)
===
Mr D.,
Thanks for the polite flame war. I was bored and needed something to provide interest for my day. I have not read "Brothers". It is sitting on my shelf as I have been saving it for last for about a year now. I have read all the other books by Dost that we dicussed. I'll look for you in its pages and will probably see you there.
By the way, you'd like the girl I mentioned from Romania. She is a "perfect" biatch. I fell in love with her for that. :)
poster...
Tatoosh, no disagreement on the mandatory reading list issue -- my comment was more about naming a couple of others who are usually in the same list as PL gave. Certainly no one's going to be unable to write well because they've missed reading "The Plague" but on the other hand most of the working writers I know (and I know a fair number) are absolutely voracious readers as well, and are seriously interested in hearing about new folks they've not read before. And that includes all the ones who have nothing whatsoever to do with the "academy" as they're still interested in their craft, and look to incorporate whatever they can beg, borrow, or steal. I'll politely disagree with you on your "more recent" comment, as I think there are plenty of fine writers working now.
PL, if I were you I'd not worry in the least about when you started wanting to be a writer -- it's not like mathematics or chess where you'd better have reached the top by the time you're thirty or so because you start going downhill after that. The list is long and honorable of those who started writing or publishing late. Hell, it just means you've got life experiences to draw from! Passion, regular work, something burning to say, and the ability to administer and take a good dose of balanced self-criticism are really what's required. And there's also a long tradition of writers pounding it out after they've pounded a few. The question is always what you do with it after that.
"Growth of the Soil" by Hamsum is really one to read by him, as it's fucking great, though "Hunger" is also interesting, especially when you consider it as a first novel and as the birth of modernism. "Growth," as an strange piece of trivia, was the inspiration for Dire Straits frontman Mark Knopfler's song "Telegraph Road" which I love hearing both because of that and because I drive along the exact road in the song every month or so. (Hmm, I'm making myself want to reread it now, as it's been a couple of years. Too bad he was such an idiot politically.)
And what I meant about hanging out with the wrong people is simply that it's really useful to have people who share in, rather than are baffled by, your interests. Writing may be a solitary thing, but most of the writers I know are hungry for company and love to talk shop, same as anybody else who's really into something.
And thanks, SA, for your list as well. All-time favorite literary subjects -- I'm gonna have to chew on that one a while.
SA,
Some of us appreciate the thai/english translations, not being the accomplished multilinguist (amongst other things) that you are.
Zop,
Okay, sure, fine fine. Oh, and yes, I agree there are some peachy keen writers toiling away today. Considering the growing human population of the world, there damn well should be. But none of them have been tested against the abrasion of time. They meet our fancy at the moment. But we are a fickle lot at best.
And when someone starts putting lists together, as you may have noticed, I start getting, well, surly. Reading lists are to writing much as a self-administered hand job is to sex: an indulgence in one's own handiwork.
Tatoosh
PosterLion
07-31-04, 18:40
Tatoosh,
I agree. But I am glad that I started to read (what they call the classics). I mostly read adventure stories that dealt with canines as a child. White Fang, Desert Dog, etc, etc.
It was actually that girl I mentioned from Romania that got me reading the classics. She is the smartest person I have ever met when it comes to the usage of her second language, English.
I also like Hemmingway. :) I've got most of his books.
===
SA,
You might top the Romanian. I've never heard of these characters. Are they from comic books? I wouldn't be surprised. I am not saying that as a cut either. I've just read some comics that appeared to be as genius as anything else I have read. :)
As for the sprinkle of Thai words, come on man! Give me a break. I'm just excited I'm getting somewhere with this crazy language.
===
JZ,
Thanks for the encouraging word. I've been feeling low about my writing lately. It's just one of those times when nothing seems to jell on paper or in my mind.
poster...
Samus Aran
07-31-04, 22:14
PL:
Never heard of these characters? Wow, really showing your age. These arent some comic book heroes anyways. Check out your nearest video game store and you will find that these charcters have sold millions of video games. SA will allow you a smidgeon of thai, but just a wee smidgeon.
SA was walking downtown yesterday and had to weave his way through the handholding crowd. Saw this couple having a little bit of a tiff cause the "associate" wasnt satisfied with 5 pairs of 2300 baht shoes. She insisted that she need 2 more pairs. She temper tantrumed until she got her way. The guy caved. More and more guys are getting roped into this GFE with these thai humpers. SA is in awe. Guys falling for the sexual charms of some paid spreader. In 3 days they want to marry her. It is real ugly. And, to boot, most of these girls are real ugly. SA is not impressed. Not one bit. Not only are they fools but they are also blind. Oh what can SA do.
SA got his new crib set. Will be close to downtown off Sukumvit and withinh 5 minutes of nice health club and swimming pool. Nice set up for SA.
Samus Aran
PL, certainly nothing wrong with White Fang for someone of any age -- London's always worth a go. And don't worry about a dry spell here or there; the trick is just to keep at it, then look back a bit later on and see if anything good turned up. It's tough, because most writers feel they're only as good as the piece they're working on right now, but you've got to get past that feeling unless it's useful. Everybody goes through fallow periods.
Oh, and SA's list is of vid game characters, of course.
Tatoosh, I agree regarding the test of time, but of course time also has a way of burying the worthy as well as the unworthy so you basically pays your nickel and takes your chances. In the same way there's no required list to be a writer there's no big deal about spending time on a modern who may turn out not to be immortal. Heck, most things aren't and that doesn't mean they're not worth doing -- including many encounters with TGs. :)
JuiceSpike
08-03-04, 14:47
SA,
Congrats on the new crib. Now you will be closer to the action on Suk...not necessarily a good thing for you :D, imagine the sights you will have to deal with...
juice
PL - the real challenge in Thai comes when you start to read the 44 consonants (42 common use) and the 32 vowel combinations (30 common use). And then there are the tone rules that go with pronunciations of consonant vowel combinations... etc etc... At least written Thai doesn't have upper and lower case (but they do have FONTS - even I can't figure out ... so ...) The difference (not actual "words" of course) between Thai and Viet is that Viet used the Latinate alphabet (which eliminated the need to learn a "new" alphabet. The "romanizations" of the words do more harm than good for the average farang. IF the transliterations were written out in Int'f PHONETIC Alphabet, though you could at least pronounce the Thai correctly (tones included)
And, of course, none of this has ANYTHING to do with the underlying purpose of this board...
Kindergartener level speaker, here (and the kindergarteners are STILL better than I am - but they get to speak it every day) But at least I can read (slowly) better than they can
Thank you to SA for mentioning the unpublished book, Private Dancer, by Leather. I found it online, downloaded and printed it out. I'm only 50 pages into it and finding it fascinating.
A true cautionary tale for anyone tempted to get attached to one of these strange and exotic beauties.
Ljohnson
Samus Aran
08-03-04, 22:40
LJohnson,
Your welcome. No longer will anybody who reads this work of fiction support the GFE in Thialand. SA has been saying this over and over agin that these Thai hump machines are for screwing and nothing else. This is one of the themes of the. The minor characters warn the main character to treat these girls as sperm tanks and nothing else. But, because Pete went back for second helpings, he became hooked. One of SA's cardinal rules: Never, ever see the same hooker twice. So if you aint gonna follow SA's advice, at least read this piece of fiction. It was almost as if the author was quoting SA. TT and all these other guys who honestly believe that these girls care about any paying customer are sadly mistaken. And, you perv who photograph a hooker are another sad lot. Dont argue with SA about this point.
Dinghy,
SA dont know where you learned to speak Thai. Some advice: Dont try and sound out the words. See the wwhole word and memorise it. SA never ever took a lesson in Thai. Thats a mistake. Get immersed in the language and learn it naturally. Any time you spend at a school before you have the basics in place from just being around the language, will be a forced way of learning. It wont be natural. It is said that it takes 12 years to speak a language fluently and thatis being totally immersed in it. Pick up some music and what SA found beneficil is getting karaoke vcds. So, this way you can read along as they sing. And eventually you isng. Music is a great way to learn. But this worked for me.
Juice,
NAw it wont make a difference to SA. SA is sick of the whole scene and the real bad part of moving is tahtI will have to see more love sick farangs walking these thai hump machines up and down sukumvit rd as though they were grandpa and grand daughter. SA will be closer to work and yoga and the swimming pool. Those are SA's outlets.
SA
S.A. -
If we disagree on the GFE v. FFF issue, it might be just a matter of semantics. I have said that I enjoy the GFE. But, by that, I do not mean going back to the same girl repeatedly and, thereby, acquiring a so-called "girlfriend." When I speak of enjoying the GFE, I am referring to the way we interact while I am with a particular girl. My last fuck in Pattaya, I would consider a GFE. But I was with her a total of less than 4 hours, including the time we spent in the go-go club before and after doing the deed.
But the time we did spend together was like a date with two people who enjoy each other's company. (As if she was, for that short period of time, my "girlfriend;" thus, the term.) The way the girl and I interact while we are together, even if only a couple of hours, makes the experience a GFE, or not. This is not the case with all the TGs. Some are more sweet and affectionate than others. Some kiss on the mouth and others do not. Some take my hand or my arm as we are walking in public (I do not impose this gesture on the girl, believing it to look, and be, lame and pathetic.) Some are more attentive than others. Some seem to care (note I say "seem" to care; of course it's an act) about my pleasure more than others. Etcetera.
I have enjoyed the GFE with most of the girls I have fucked in Pattaya, Bangkok and Cambodia. But I was only with one of them more than one time. (And yes, I did refer to her, at one time, as my "girlfriend" based on the way she treated me.) In this way, I have enjoyed the GFE in a two hour mid-morning session, followed by lunch together and then goodbye; as well as an entire evening, night and morning of eating, drinking, partying and screwing; and then saying goodbye. Forever.
That is how I define the GFE and, therefore, submit that I practice the FFF method while enjoying the GFE.
LJ
SA - sounding out words in Thai? Just reading the THAI. It is, after all basically a monosyllabic language. true, a bunch of imitating (but then that's how we ALL learn to speak initially, isn't it?) The teacher insisted that we learn the written language in order to be able to communicate. that's the way it's done. Still trying to get around the silent letters, 20 special words with sala ai-mai-muan, and the entire rule set for hi-middle-low plus short and long vowels and then add in the tone marks. Syntax seems a bit strange, too - "Yoda speak" so to say.
So why do I want to actually learn Thai? Easier to get exactly what I want if I know how to ask for it. (No, not women - don't need to know Thai for that but in the words of Curley Stooge "it can't hoit, neither") Commerce - there are opportunities out there
LJ - SHORT TIME GFE then FFF is OK in my book. Depending on how happy you are in the interim day or week or so, as long as you don't want a "permanent" relationship it's all the same. Don't need a clingy poo-ying.
Migrant One
08-04-04, 15:51
GFE vs FFF
For me GFE just means a little more warm and cuddly with some conversation thrown in.
I like both, dependent on the lady. If she is nice, and intelligent, I may look for a all nighter and my version of GFE.
Other times I want to do the deed and "see ya honey".
Depends on the girl, and my frame of mind.
As for the GFE that I want for weeks on end with me, aint gonna happen.
migrant
Samus Aran
08-04-04, 15:52
Dinghy,
You have a bad teacher. When you learned English did your mom flash cards of the alphabet in front of your face at 2months? No! You lied in your crib, up to your ears in your own shit and were just absorbing the sounds you were hearing. Then one day you said "Mom". Followed by, " Mom, I shit my pants."
Honestly you will take a mauch longer time your way. SA just bought music, listened to tv, and over time added the letters. SA spent time in the markets listening to the conversations cause this where Thai life and the language is most colorful. Your teacher is just not putting in the work and being just another lazy Thai. Listening and comprehension is utmost. Reading is 2 or 3 years away.
But, if you want to still be on your abc's 4 years from now keep at it. And, SA just accepted the letters as they were and just looked at the words and site recoginized them and not get frustrated and try to reason why this letter or vowel goes there. You cant do that. If you worried about the rules of the language you will always be asking "Why?" SA couldnt tell you the rules in English at all. Japanese students who study for the SAT know the rules better than most native speakers, but they can't say 10 words fluently. Thai is a simple language. Let it come to you. SA could probably not tell you the whole Thai alphabet but SA can tell you the word from reading it and recognizing the combination. But then SA is going on 7 years here.
Fellas:
SA has a real difficult time when you guys put "Hooker" and "GFE" in the same sentence. Just find it stange that you guys cant toughen up and be true warriors. And then when SA reads that you actually spend time taking a hooker out to dinner and walk in public as a couple, you violate all the rules. Justifyiing hand holding with a hooker cause she initiates it? COME ON. What are you doing in public anyway with one of these humpers?
Samus Aran
Cloud Seeker
08-04-04, 16:03
Ljohnson's got it right.
The Traveler
08-05-04, 06:20
Samus Aran
Just a correction : I never said that a P4P girl will care about a payng customer. Why should they ?
They don't know each other good enough and usually don't spend enough time together to develop any feelings for each other. Sad to say - here I agree with you - that many guys fall in love after a couple of hours or a few days, just because sex was good or the girl charmed him. Damn, that's her job and things will change if you stay with a girl much longer. Seeing her every day life, meeting her family and satisfying all the needs of the family (TV, fridge, motorbike, surgery for the sick buffalo ...) will immediately change it.
But there are exceptions. I have more than one friend who not only developed a relationship. Many of them are married and it's often better than being married with a white girl. Thais do care much more about their husbands than any european or american girl will usually do. Yes, some break up and some are happy. Why should it be different from the rest of human mankind ?
SA,
I do not really understand the cardinal rule: “Never see the same hooker twice”.
If you find a girl involved in the naughty night life, and she delivers good service, why not see her again? That doesn’t include necessarily a grandfather/granddaughter promenade on Sukhumvit or shopping tours to Emporium…
I found during the time that many of the bar girls matches exactly with your idea about the Thai hooker – they want quick money, get the deed done and go back to the bar. But there are some who learned within the time, that the customers come back if they deliver good service, and they only need a number of good customers to reach their income expectations.
During the years in Bangkok I met girls with different capabilities:
There is one 30 year old girl working basically in the Soi 7 area, which gives an excellent Thai massage and final handjob including a prostate massage. She told me that she was working as a “massage healer” in a hospital in Udon Thani before, and she learned to fix muscle tension and pain problems with her massage. Her service is really excellent – you cannot get a better massage even in a specialized Thai massage place. Why should I use this service only once?
Another girl I know is into blowjobs, and she over the time she not only learned how to do in general, she knows especially how I like her to do it for me. She could only learn that because I saw her again and again.
Another one delivers a real hot FS, that noisy, that all other rooms of the ST hotel get at least a good sound show. Whether it is faked or not – who cares – it is really good, and turns me on.
Whenever I decide to go out I have several choices now. I think about what I prefer for that day, and I know then what I can expect. And the option to try something new is still there.
To treat those girls as GFs for the time you stay together makes sense. To keep a good relationship and take phone numbers gives you the option to develop them into a kind of “specialized mobile service centers”, which are always available if you need them.
Giotto
Samus Aran
08-05-04, 23:18
Giotto:
The "never see the same hooker twice" rule is a very important one. Once you go back for seconds, then a sort of relationship is startingto develop. Somehow you like the hooker and want to spend time with her. After going more and more, feelings are beginning to develop and suddenly you have begun to take an interest in her life. Soon, you getting fone number, arranging to meet, dinners, etc... And then you dont know where this can lead and the problems that may start to erupt. Seeing the same hooker more than once is in direct violation of the 3f method and it doesnt matter what type of service she provides. SA hopes that this clears things up for you and that you can see SA's point.
Anyways, this is SA's take and perhaps good for the love sick tourist coming to Thailand for the first time. Maybe you experienced pros can handle it differently.
SA
Marco Pole
08-06-04, 08:04
Guys,
I think we should all stop arguing with Samus and let him do what he's good at; Training the new recruits!
If Thailand could be compared to a war, then the WSG is our boot camp and Samus is the drill seargent. Everyone knows you can't send troops to war without any training. If you did, they'd get their asses shot the minute they stepped foot off the plane.
So like a good drill seargent, Samus teaches that the ratio between friendlies (genuine thai chicks) and enemies (manipulating street girls just looking to take your money) that most mongerers will run into is heavily weighted in favor of the latter.
Instead of spending time telling us all how complex the war is, he teaches the quickest and best method to take out as many enemies as you can while avoiding being shot in the heart.
A majority of the people reading the boards will go to Thailand for maybe a few weeks every couple years if they're lucky, and why should they spend their time and hard earned dollars getting duped by a few ladies that don't really give a shit about them? Its a vacation! When you get off that plane, come out firing!
And those that are blessed (or crazy) enough to live there longer term, you don't need SA's advice as you've probably grown tired of the NP, SC, and PP scene after a few months and have found yourself a more stable girl.
It's all a fantasy and don't ever forget that. Listen to the wise words of Samus Aran (Aka. Mr. Miyagi)
Wax on, Wax off.....
MP
S.A. -
Once again, thank you for the tip about the book by Leather, Private Dancer. I just finished reading it and it was VERY interesting and entertaining.
I highly recommend it to anyone who involves himself with Thai bargirls at any level. I submit that every incident in the book is absolutely true to life. The way the author has each character speak separately and in the first person is clever and quite effective.
Interesting twist at the end; so it was a random cement truck and not the hired guns that did the deed? Weird.
To download the book, I just did a Google search, "Leather 'Private Dancer'" and got the author's website. One click and you can download and print the entire book for free. 220 pages. Recommended.
LJ
LJ,
it is a true story, only the final is fiction, for some dramaturgy reasons.
Giotto
LJ,
It is a true story, only the final is fiction, for some dramaturgy reasons.
Guitto
Yes same as Alice in wunderland
Best Regards Steen
Ljohnson,
I understood that the hitman did shoot Pete down.
The cement truck version is just one more lie that Sunan told Vernon, the sucker who was taking her to the US.
Steen22,
Nice first post. Believe it or not, it is a true story.
Giotto
Samus Aran
08-07-04, 01:52
Giotto,
Of course its a true story and in fact it is being played out live for all of us to see on the streets and bars of Bangkok everyday.
Silly men wasting their lives away for some Bangkok bar hooker.
If SA takes a stroll into the Emporium, SA cant help notice the number of "Petes" falling for the Joy's. Taking their little Thai humpers on shopping trips just to keep her happy and sucking his dick. Truly very sad.
This is why Giotto, that the rule of "never ever seeing the same hooker twice" should be strictly followed. Just stay away from these girls. Have sex and be done with it. SA strongly recommends that you guys follow this as to not end up another loser statistic in Thailand.
SA
Gladiator -
Exactly. I went back and reread that section. It was Vernon telling that version, as told to him by Sunan. I missed that on the first read. And it makes sense that she also said he had been cremated, etc.
What a movie the story could make!
Thanks,
LJ
In www.pattayamail.com this week:
Farangs duped by Thai wives
Dear Sirs,
Has any individual or organization ever taken any action to protect farangs from being duped by Thai wives or girlfriends? I would have thought that this should be a high priority since I am very concerned that others might have been taken in as I was myself. I would think that there could be a support group with someone (an ex-patriot) having Thai and English fluent language skills and legal knowledge to advise gullible farangs. The group could even charge fees, creating a job for a competent person.
Personally, I was unaccustomed to being lied to face to face by someone who I loved dearly. For four years, I was bled of cash and more painfully, feelings. After my wife admitted the scam, I was devastated. She had stolen four years of my life along with millions of baht. I have tried to get some legal action, but I am advised by a good friend in Bangkok that I would be throwing good money after bad. The divorce laws in Thailand are biased toward the Thai wife, so the farang always loses. The Thai lawyers at the law firm which I contacted in Bangkok are incompetent and slow to act.
A support group could publicize the vulnerabilities of such unions and try to foster some support in the legal and law enforcement cooperation in bringing justice. They could also recommend detectives and attorneys who have proved their worth. As it is now, I feel that the Thai legal system and the Thai police adopt an attitude of ‘Farang against Thai’, rather than in any interest in the pursuit of justice.
Best regards,
Michael J. Bowens
It may be a good idea to create a sort of information centre for suckers, as Michael suggests.
He is thinking of a 'support group with someone (an ex-patriot) having Thai and English fluent language skills and legal knowledge to advise gullible farangs'.
SA, do you have Thai fluent language skills? Have you got a good legal knowledge? Are you good at advising gullible farangs?
I hope so. I can't think of any other better candidate for that position.
The General Information & Advice Centre, headed by SA, should be located in Bangkok International Airport, so that suckers are properly advised and warned even before they take the Sukhumvit-strip-bound taxi.
Samus Aran
08-07-04, 09:33
Gladiator,
Nice idea but no thanks. SA has been peddling this advice for years for free! SA takes hits, jabs, flames etc. from many posters for SA's nonchalant attitude towards these bar hookers. SA's can't have some sorry ass, love sick farang laying on his couch in some office on Sukumvit rd trying to give hiw advice about maintaining a relationship with some humper. The only advice SA can give is the one he has always been saying, "fuck em and forget em." What is that 5 words. If SA charge by the words SA be starving. They aren't going to listen. SA offering adivce for couples when one of them is a hooker! That is hysterical.
Its not even the older unsuspecting tourist getting taken by these girls. No, it sthe young guys as well who SA sees "relationshipping" with these girls. They think they everything walking hand in hand with a thai humper all around Thailand. Showing off their wares to the rest of the crowd. Give SA and the rest of us a break. Sometimes, they even worse than the older gents.
SA dont even think a warning should be posted. Why? These guys should know better! They are trying to maintain a relationship with a humper from a different land, different culture. It just isn't going to happen. Some succeed, a very, very small amount. Is it worth the risk? Do you want to be duped by like Mr Bowens?
Mr Bowens just another sorry ass statistic in Thailand. If he would have come to the SA section in the WSG he would have thought twice. However, SA knows that some of these guys are living in a fantasy world and no matter what SA tells them they arent going to listen. SA would be ruining their fantasy!
And, if SA is giving out such advice, SA mite be target for bad things to happen to him from bar girls who make their living duping these customers.
Mr Bowens went in to his relationship with this girl knowing full well all of the troubles ahead. SA was sure he was told by his friends that he must be crazy. But, he did not want to hear it. Now, he learned the hard way. And what did he get out of all of this. Hundreds of orgasms! Wow, big deal! HAving hundreds of 3f encounters would have saved him $$$.
Another example why fellas should have no second helpings with any bar humper. One time and move on. Bust it and leave it.
SA
SA,
I see your point and (surprisingly for me) I agree with you. The rule might make sense for those tourist which come to Thailand one or two times and do not know the game.
But - there are other methods to prevent those tourists from the bar girl trap than 3F. It's enough to warn from long term relationships to bar girls as well as from sending money to them or taking care of them in any kind. To limit the relationship in time, and to define the rule "Only pay for the service, and for nothing else" should be same effective and allows to repeat satisfactory night life experiences to a certain extend.
For me this rule doesn't make any sense - I have better experiences with developing service centers for special occasions, equipped with special capabilities. To treat this girls as ladies and handle them on GFE level is a conditio sine qua non to succesfully operate that game.
Giotto
PosterLion
08-07-04, 17:04
I agree with all you guys that are now praising the wisdom of SA. I remember when I first started reading him and how it made me chuckle. Not because I had any experience in Thailand, but because me and my mates (in Oklahoma when I was a teenager) used to always say find 'em, fuck 'em, and forget 'em. His words were truly a blast from the past.
I heed his advice with bar girls for the most part. Although I did have one two-week travel adventure with an "Angel Disco" fleelancer in my more inexperienced days and I have also gone back (up to three times) with some girls. But it was strictly business and no giving up the heart.
I would say that there is a good arguement for finding a discrete girl that is reputable and sexy/hot-in-bed par excellence if you are someone like me, an Oblonsky. The trick is to make sure that the affair is nothing more than wham bam thank you mam, which is in reality, the same thing as 3F, only modified. Giotto has a good point in this respect.
But I'll assume that Giotto is a pro with the pros and he is not the audience that SA is preaching too. SA is a good man for trying to keep the newbies away from harm. And believe me, I also visit the Emporium and see the same thing that SA sees. I was there just yesterday to buy a book from Kinokuniya, "Baudolino", by Umberto Eco.
poster...
gladiator - and the "sa education and consulting agency" should either sell copies of private dancer (200 pages is a lot to "give away") or provide the download address. should be required reading for (male) farangs entering thailand. sa could have written it based on "advice" from his current incarnation and "previous lives".
of course, then we might not have as many "discussions" here.
:-)
how many more farang have arrived after just falling off the turnip truck?
pl - as long as you read private dancer...
sa - the issue about 'ho and gfe in the same sentence has to do with the experience - rather like going to a movie and experiencing a "willing suspension of disbelief". sort of like the difference between starfish and wiggle. even if it is faked, a wiggle is better than a limp dishrag. (as long as the difference is recognized) oh, i agree - might as well lie to them, they do it to us enough. always think with the brain not the dickhead and never let them get to you. how do you make a bg love you? show her the money.
changing the subject to something entirely different - the thai teacher i learn with (and several other learners as well) takes the approach that since we are adults, we can learn the language directly from being literate. after all, it's not like we have to learn to "read" (because we can read english - at least hopefully) vocabulary comes as a result of usage (little usage in the us except if you seek it out - need to find a concentration of thai to converse with) i suppose i might have been better of learning mandarin chinese but the thought of learning a different construct for each word appears to be too much of a challenge.
i do wonder, though, what level of language competancy is necessary to understand what is being said. as an example, i can speak some spanish (enough to get by and the pocket translator picks up the necessary words i don't use enough to remember) but - i get frustrated in mexican border areas because of the "slang". i wonder how much thai is "enough"?
oh, and as to shit - i have been told stories by mum and aunty about how when i was kicking the slats in the crib, i took off a [CodeWord132] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord132) and played in the shit. roflmao - been there ,done that , washed the t-shirt. it was a monumental clean-up job according to reports - shit everywhere
PosterLion
08-07-04, 18:42
PRIVATE DANCER
I've read it. I appreciated the writers attempt to pull off a multiple character first person narrative. It was a noble effort but it does not and never will be good writing. Faulkner did a much better job.
Okay, Okay. I'll stop being the English critic that I never was nor ever could be. I've been drinking a while. :)
PD is a good idea for novice *****mongers to study, I'll agree with you. But hey, all life is the same thing and no different from this novel. People have been jumping in front of trains for love since the dawn of time and they aren't always men.
But I must agree that nowadays, most people have a very limited education of life. For that reason, I recommend that everyone read PD or just listen to SA. They are both the very essence of reality. :)
poster
PosterLion,
Praising SAs wisdom - don't let us start the old discussions again. As long as reasonable language is used, and a minimum respect for the bar girls and Thai women in general is shown, there should not be any problem to discuss 3F in this thread.
I simply would never generalize the issue in the way SA is doing it. There are many girls you can only deal with using 3F, but there are also girls you can meet again and again, and you can have satisfactory GFE experiences.
Still remaining the question about cause and effect: may be we mongers generate with 3F exactly the species of girls which we afterwards describe as piranhas, and which nobody really likes so much.
Giotto
White Tiger
08-08-04, 11:59
Giotto,
Thanks for showing me to this thread. I think it has knocked some sense into my head. 3Fs huh, its a pity it has to be done. I would have given the lady anything if only she asked, but she didn't. She is a nice girl, just borned to a bad enviroment and now stucked in a world that will kill all goodness in her. sighhh
But I'm still coming back to Bangkok in either sept or oct, maybe I'll still look for her, maybe not. We can meet up for a drink if you are keen.
Regards,
Alex
JuiceSpike
08-08-04, 17:20
I think SA should be praised for having a better approach to his public message... Sure, breaking the bad news that the real deal with the bar girls (and I dare to say many "regular" girls wanting to meet farangs) is all about the money. They will be sweet, funny, charming and lie to get what they want: money. Nothing wrong if this is in the context of money for sex but many girls dupe farangs beyond the service they provide to get more money while they really don't care for the guy. Hard to beleive for some of you guys but it is the way things are. And it's has been like this for a long time...
There is a clear distinction in going to Thailand in the persuit of sex and in the persuit of love. Persuing love with a Thai hooker is a bad idea. Persuing love with a money hungry woman it's also a bad idea.
Giotto,
I think you make a good point to call a girl that provides a good bj or fuck for a second/third round but would you take her out to dinner, shopping just because of this? I would not. I would pay her for the service and let her go. Hire her for one hour then fire her. Then call her again if you want to and hire and fire again...
I think SA is very specific about guys not getting their feelings in the mix. Being westerners we are taught to be compassionate towards people that have less than us. No problem with this. But, we are talking about money for sex, a service and not a charity or a business investment.
There are a lot of charities in Thailand that farangs can contribute to show compassion if so they desire. I have and it makes me feel good.
juice
Samus Aran
08-08-04, 20:04
Juice:
SA checked out your latest pic. PArticularly liked those stains on the bedsheets. Did you and your little associate produce those or were those part of the staggering price of the hotel room? What did you pay for a humping den room like that? SA's guess, 200 baht! Reminds SA of the joke he heard. What really upset the Hilton's when they saw their daughter performing in that sex video? The fact that the towels in the background said "Econolodge. " Couldnt even get clean sheets Juice?
In addition Juice, your assumption is correct that many of the "good"girls that many of the men talk about here and think arent in the game, are best into steering a guy into leaving all of their cash with them. Sorry to say but this is the most dangerous girl. To protect yourself, include them into to the mix of 3f also.
Juice you have been to Thailand enough to know that better to be cautious and stick to your guns, then open up your heart to the Thai girl. The thai men are very good as you said, to hire a girl and then fire her. Follow their lead. Remember that these bar hookers are on the bottom rung of Thai society and as such there is no reason for a foreigner from 10000 miles away to think he is going to play Richard Gere and make the life of some bar ho better. That was the movies and Hollywood. Real llife is something different. Unfortunately, this is what happens. Private Dancer had many exercepts from a sociologist explaining why westerners care for these girls and treat them more than just hookers.
Moreover,
SA makes the move next weekend. Hated taking the bus, BTS, and any other form of transportation to get into to town. SA calculated that is was taking 15 hours/ week in traveling to get into work and town. SA finally said that was enough! Now it will take me 3 minutes to get work and 5 minutes to get to the pool/ weight room/ yoga class. Can you give me advice on what SA can do with all of this extra time?
People like Giotto are still trying to justify why they have sex with hookers. They think a cumshot with a hooker is a moving experience one that should be remembered and cherished. They still believe that they should have connection with these girls in order to make the experience relevant. If that is what makes it for him then he can continue. SA doesnt think Gio falls in the category of love sick foreigner but SA might be wrong. SA doesnt want to rain on his parade or fantasy.
Sex with a hooker and notice that SA has been using hooker and not generalizing, is like stupid high school sex. Just for fun! Forget about it when it is over! Back seat sex, skinny dipping sex, parents bed sex, neighbors couch sex.... whatever but it was for fun and meaningless. Next day it was forgotten. This is how sex with a bar girl hooker should be like. There should be no lovey dovey after you finished. No trips to the shopping center, mall, or for some of you Walmart, Walgreens, and Home Depot.
SA gets pissed off cause some of you characters are blocking the walkways along Sukumvit Rd with your hired "help" as you walk all giggly and dooey eyed side by side, arm in arm down the street. Let SA through so he can get to his favorite Indian food restaurant, please. SA is also off to Singapore next week. Going to visit the zoo and other sites. SA has noticed in the past, while hoing is evident in Singapore, there isnt the lovey dovey hand holding shit going on between a pro and some white dude in public. SA thinks that these sex workers and the visitors have a litrle more class than the bar hookers and sex seekers of Bangkok. Why is the scene in Bangkok so different? Do men just come to Bangkok and just fall off the wagon and get roped into making the biggest mistakes of their lives by being saddled up with some Thai bar girl hump machine?
SA
SA,
Can you believe it - I recommended to read your thread to somebody...this are extraordinary developments, and I will go to Burumgrad next week to have a check on my remaining brain cells...
Alexboy,
You are welcome. If you get SAs general message - OK. But don't make 3F to your general philosophy of dealing with Thai women.
BE CAREFUL: All bar girls are born in a bad environment and will tell you heart-breaking stories. And many of them are clever - some are using the strategie of developing feelings and a relationship first, and ask for money therafter - in much higher amounts. Give me a PM when you come to Thailand.
JuiceSpike,
As I said in my posts, I would of course NOT take them for dinner or shopping. I would also not take a violin teacher, TV technician or cleaning maid out for dinner. That are also specialized service centers. Of course there are exceptions over the years, as for violin teachers, TV technician and maids, too. It's just normal life.
Giotto
PosterLion
08-09-04, 16:28
Giotto,
"Still remaining the question about cause and effect: may be we mongers generate with 3F exactly the species of girls which we afterwards describe as piranhas, and which nobody really likes so much."
This is a good question and most likely a case in point. To give any example of how one thing leads to another is merely to say the word "humanity."
We are almost the only creature on earth that leads others into their undoing without realizing it. I have done so and am not happy about it but only mention it to say, "Yes, I realize that my actions have consequences."
I have somehow caused certain women to contemplate slicing their leg with a knife to hurt me and show me how I hurt them. I never intended to create this result but I did, all in the pursuit of the ideal of love. And I emphasize the term "IDEAL", because more often than not what many believe to be love is not love and just an acting out of their IDEAL of what love should be, etc, etc.
I would like to take this moment to emphasize that all relationships are nothing but grey matter floating in a void that can hardly be contemplated, much less comprehended.
To categorize anything is a highly dangerous affair, whether it be the 3F method of dealing with prostitutes or the way one should goes about doling out charity.
Categorization is said by many to be the only way we have to distinguish one thing from another, but I say it is a trap that we have fallen into, namely, that we believe that we must distinguish things.
While it may be true that to avoid falling into a hole one must recognize a hole so as to avoid it and SA does a good job of distinguishing and categorizing one such hole. But the fact of the matter is that most everyone can see a hole and knows how to avoid it.
The real problem is in the grasping, we see the hole coming and we want to avoid the hole but for some GOD-FORSAKEN-REASON (very possibly through the friend we might name as "distinguished categorization", we do everything that is within our power (or not) to fall into the very hole that we have been trying to avoid!
So I simply sum it all up in my own categorization and call it humanity. And what I have said is very dangerous indeed! Because I have contradicted my very argument by making it. Another case in point!
SA's 3F is tried and true to keep one party out of trouble. As for your question... I'd say that it remains: unanswered.
Now... I would take a bar girl to dinner. Why not? I have done it before and it is highly possible that I might do it again. There is nothing wrong with eating food. Unless of course you want to discuss the morality of eating meat or something like that. Hopefully you don't because I don't want to either.
One thing is certain. There are many holes out there and many of us will fall into them. The 3F method is one way to avoid them. There are of course others and the number of methods to stay out of trouble are most likely as numerous as the amount of trouble that we should try to avoid.
That said, to everyone a good night and to everyone... Good luck.
poster...
Thai Barmaids and Danish men.
The history is told in the aircraft between Bangkok and Moskow
Danish man Erik. Tell my:
Her name was my, she was 25 year old and i so her first corridor in a Bar in Nana Plaza in Bangkok. A Germans had already paid her 400 baht bar fine= free purchase - and in the bars in Bangkok it first comes first becomes first served. I went back many times to the Bar in Nana Plaza, My was always busy engrossed most with Germans. The was always round if her, purchased her drinks, pays her bar fine and train her with to a "short-time" Hotel. I got many times ophthalmic contact, with her. the Bar is identical with all the others go-go bars in city's red-light areas. Girls dancer and the customers buyer them drinks for70 baht, of the sheep the girls ½ the part. If the customer taker them with, shall the customer pay 500 Bath for that purchase them out of the bar. And the girl goes to the hotel with the customer. She sheep from 1,000 to 1, 500 baht. On mitt fifth visit, was my free and i purchased her drink and talk with her. And she told me that she work in it bar the last two months. She told that she cam from a village in north-east Thailand and that she had the work together with two older sisters. I visited her many times in the weeks and she was always very happy for see me. I began taking her to a karaoke bar, where her song Thai loves songs to me. She call to me every day, wanted to know what i made and if we not soon should met, she told also that she got 6, 500 baht if the month for that dances. When i raised again, 3 months later, got I flat to that visit her village, she bath me if that pay her free of the bar the 4 days the trip 2000 Bath. My was very different from others barmaids as i in times running had see and I became very enamoured in her on it trip. When we cam back to Bangkok. Was she very sorry of the there expected her, so we agreed that she should be min completely private dancer. I paid the fee to the bar. She began carry two photography’s of me in her wallet. I was so fortunate that in my firm should the use a man to job in Bangkok and i got the position. My said good-bye to bar dancer and we got a 3 room flat in central of Bangkok on Suhumvit Road Soi 41 the flat 10000 Bath if the month as my firm paid. The next 8 months was the happiest time in my life, we had the splendid and I was certain on that my and I wanted to residue of our life together. My got work in a firm there was neighbour to the place where I work, with klining.We purchased a car and train tit on visit among family and to different places by the coast in week-ends and vacations. After 8 months should i to London and work in 3 months and then should I back to Bangkok again. We agreed that keep the flat and self pay the 3 months. My was happy for its work and if she train with me to London wanted to she. In the 3 months we in telephone every day, the was terrible for me that no see her, so long time. I call on different times of the evening also for that controller her, but she was always at home and she so TV as she like very of. When i cam back to Bangkok discovered i that our car was been stolen, the was not a new so there was not assurance on it. I find fast an other older car to 60000 Bath same price as i had given for it first. When we next week-end visited the family, became i received as a son there was turned home. A good month time later told my me that now should i be father. I should hear the more before the went up for me what the was that she straight had told. I met a Germans as i known from earlier, and he told that while i had been in London had My been on a Bar in Nana Plaza, and when i confronted My with the, told she that the was rightly, she had visited a girl-friend there steady work there. We purchased reason and performed a house on the reason, by since of Mys family in village. The price 1½ million Bath. We had received the reason very cheap, when it was owned of a family ember. The whole the family helped to with that few performed the house. My was now 6 months and we get marry, but wanted to wait with that hold the party. to the child was born. We train on a short vacation in Denmark and i got presenter min vife for my family, there train in toward her with open arms.
I should back to London again and work in 1½ month and I reached straight that stay finished to that the was the time that my should have baby. We got a girl there should sounds the name Samron. There was a smaller celebration for the family. On mitt work became I contacted of the Germans, there told that he had meet a compatriot there had told him that in it last period where I had been in London had "purchased" My on a Bar in Nana Plaza. I became very angry on the germander and bath him if that hold itself away from me for posterity. His terminating remark was that he only wanted to warn me. I went in a pair weeks and thought on Germander and the he had told, but slog the to last over as bullshit.
The Wedding party. There was over 500 guests and the price over 125000 Bath with transportation of the many humans. If the morning cam Mys brother over to me and said: You shall go now. The is not your wedding but my and the is not your child, but my. When he had said the, was min first reactions that the was a joke, but the was the unfortunately not. I became out of the home and had to leave the village Him as i believed was he brother, was sweetheart/man The first days after under took me not some thing, i was powerful shocked .I train contact to a attorney, there could tell that i was been cheated and that there nothing was that quiet up. I set a private discoverer on the case in a month 43000 Bath and the sole it got out of the was that it car there was stolen picked he up, it was in family garage. I call the to the police there not wanted to roofs the case when the was "famely"problems.It collective bill running up in over 2 ½ Million Bath.
I has later found out of that I not is it sole there has received” the trip".
EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to capitalize the word "I". To avoid future delays, please use a capital "I" to refer to yourself in future reports. Thanks!
Migrant One
08-09-04, 17:50
My 2 cents into the fray,
I've been hobbying many years, primarily Central America, but some Asia and also close to home in the states.
In younger days I've been taken down the road by bar girls, but have learned much (and paid for that learning!)
I classify the ladys in two parts,
1) The hardcore worker, there to seperate your money from your body, and to do so in any way possible
2) The part timer, working maybe a couple days a month to feed the family. They need the money but aren't generally as shark like.
Even though many "1's" claim to be part time, or new, I think many of us can tell. With these women the 3F's definately prevail.
The "2's " are the ones that one must watch, they are still "soft" around the edges. I've met many part timers that turn into a GFE and expect little after the initial night. I've learned to make no promises, be 'honest' with them, and keep it 'business'.
I've enjoyed some ladys enough that I went with them more than once, but at this point in my life, it is for the sex, not the love.
Personally I'd also take either category out to dinner, out to drinks if I enjoyed their company. I've also taken them on side trips and bought "little" gifts, but generally negotiate terms beforehand.
Forewarned is forearmed and that is one reason why we are here.
migrant
JuiceSpike
08-09-04, 19:45
SA,
That was bottle water on the sheets and not body fluids you saw on that pic...:D
Good joke about the "Econolodge".
juice
Daddy Lows
08-10-04, 09:24
Steen,
Even the garbled and mangled English didn't diminish the moral of your story (it was hard to read though). As harsh as Samus' absolute 3F advice is, it would've prevented all your sufferings.
Peace
Samus Aran
08-10-04, 13:51
Steen,
Yea, The english a little bit difficult but SA got the jist of it. Uhhhm, all SA can say is get out and chalk it up to experience. Money is lost. You just another sorry statistic in Thailand. You thinking with your penis and not your brain and refused to listen to the advice that your friends and the people in the SA section of the WSG would give you.
These girls are for sex and that is it. All of the girls are the same one way or the other. SA dont care if it college girls or bar girl, they are to be avoided for any type of relationship. Please get yourself cleaned up and come to Thailand for the fun and leave it at that. Let it go. You can make the money back and you can get a new car.
If this is a true story, then let it be further support of the fuck and leave em method. What is so difficult fellas? SA just dont get it. Still see tons of these guys supporting these girls for no reason.
Steen is not alone and SA is sure that more cases like his are happening daily in Thaialnd. SA been here for 6 years and never had any inkling in getting inolved with these bar hos. It was quite apparent after the first few weeks here what the whole scene was all about. This is paid sex guys. Paid orgasm, Paid cumshot. You make the choice. But please be smart and think with your brain that sits on your shoulders!
Dont let anybody tell you that there is a different way to behave and act in Thailand. 3f sex is your only choice.
SA
Steen - maybe a copy of Private Dancer auf Deutsche? Same problem different day...
JuiceSpike
08-10-04, 20:23
steen,
the only part i understood well about your report was that you lost 2 1/2 million baht in such a "on your face" way. i'm sorry to hear your story but i'm not surprised at all. the one thing that i wonder about you is how could you not see any signs of what was coming to you.
if i were you, i would pay top baht to some high ranking cop in the town you lost your money to begin a collection system of your money. you would maybe get only some money back if any but you would make a point about.... nevermind... find a new girl.
a somewhat related story:
when i was in pattaya in july a friend and i and 2 "regular" girls from bkk hired a speed boat to the island for the day. we found a nice almost empty beach with a restaurant. we ate and when it was time to leave my friend got charged 400 baht for a fish they fried for him. he told me this when we were ready to board the boat back to pattaya. i was really pissed off but he asked me not to say anything...
right before we were about to leave, a woman (wife or sister of the restaurant owner) came to us and asked if she could get on the boat to go to pattaya with us to visit family. i said no way at first then i said ok. as we are ready to leave, another woman, her friend shows up and also wanted a ride. i asked one of the girls with us to translate how these people expected us to give them a ride after screwing us with the lunch bill. after some silence, the boat driver spoke and said he had told the women that we could take them if they asked.
i told the driver to take off and we left the two women standing on the beach. the 2 girls later told me we did the right thing. the boat driver looked pissed off and i thought we might have a few thai guys waiting for us when we got to pattaya.
when we got back i told the driver there was no tip. we paid him the agreed amount for the rental and walked away. the guy said "sorry, thank you."
when i'm in thailand i tip really well to people that are honest and treat me, my friends with respect. i think that if farangs don't say anything when they get screwed then it will continue to happen. it is their country but it is our money. mutual respect works both ways.
the next day, we were going back to the island (different beach) and when we were looking for a boat to rent the same driver of the day before shows up all smiles. i said "no, thanks" and he said "ok, no problem." i smiled back.
juice
Juice Spike -
Thanks for the report of your experience and how you handled it. It seems you did everything right; standing up for yourself, not letting them take undue advantage of you, while maintaining a smile and nonconfrontational demeanor. You and the Thai guy both saved face; very important.
And you and your friend let the 400 baht fish charge go without protest. Probably the smart move under the circumstances. (But you didn't let them rub salt in the wound by giving them a free ride.)
Well handled, and good information for the rest of us.
Ljohnson
SA,
Thanks for you being worried about me. Hopefully I do not belong into the group of love sick foreigners, but who knows? Regarding the result of the old “parade or fantasy”: I am still taking care of that girl, and she is still going to school. No complaints from my side.
Don’t know, why you have the impression that I try to justify why I have sex with hookers. I have sex with hookers, and I know what I am doing. And I know what I want. And I know when I have to practice 3F, or when I can have a GF experience. I always prefer GFE.
PosterLion,
I have read your statement reg. “cause and effect”. I admit – I did not understand it completely, but that might have to do with my limited English knowledge. What I (hopefully) understood was this part:
“The real problem is in the grasping, we see the hole coming and we want to avoid the hole but for some GOD-FORSAKEN-REASON … we do everything that is within our power (or not) to fall into the very hole that we have been trying to avoid!”
I absolutely agree on that. We are our own enemies. But – to practice 3F because we are NOT able to deal with our own weakness – is that really it? And then – coming back to cause and effect – we practice 3F, developing those piranhas, which afterwards convince us that it is was right to practice 3F – that means to accept a spiral leading to a negative development, instead of supporting a positive spiral eliminating 3F necessities AND the development of bar girls from regulars to piranhas…
Steen22,
Sorry to hear your story. That was obviously a professional rip-off, what happened to you there. It happens sometimes here in Thailand, but – I again warn to generalize – this is NOT happening every day, and not all girls are like this one. Normally guys behind the girls plan such a thing, and girls simply accept decisions of boyfriends/husbands.
I recommend to anybody who really wants take the super-high risk to get involved into a SERIOUS relationship with anybody connected to the sex industry (bar girls, mamasans, bar owners, street walkers, massage girls etc. etc.) to invest the money to check out the girl first. That is easy to do, and there are specialized detectives which are doing that job every day, and very professional. You need to know which agencies you can trust, but you can send me a PM, and I can give you some addresses.
I did the same thing with the girl I am taking care of in the moment (mentioned above), 1 week in the first month, and 3 more days the second month. I simply wanted to know what she is doing all day, and whether she still participates in the naughty night life. This agencies can give you detailed reports on what the girls are doing, and they can also check out the family structures, existing boyfriends or husbands etc. . It costs a bit, but you will not loose 2.5 Mio. then.
All,
I do not want to forget the most important recommendation:
- DO NOT GET EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED WITH A BAR GIRL. IT WILL NOT WORK IN 99.999% OF ALL CASES
- DISTINGUISH BETWEEN SEX AND LOVE, AND BETWEEN FALLING-IN-LOVE AND LOVE
- ENJOY THE TIME YOU HAVE, BUT DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY KIND OF FUTURE WITH THAT GIRL
Those girls are sex workers. Treat them with respect, as ladies, as girl friends for the time you stay together, and if they are good girls they will pay you back much more than you invest. If they do not – practice 3F. Then they are lost anyway, already destroyed by us.
Giotto
White Tiger
08-11-04, 13:02
I'm so glad I'm reading this thread, it has knocked so much sense into my head. Guess my next trip to LOS will be more fun now I know what to expect, but damn some of those TG are really beautiful. Pity they are not to be treated as they should be due to their motives.
Thank you SA, Giotto, PosterLion, etc for sharing such valuable info. Really educate first timer like me not to fall into these horror traps.
Regards,
Alex
Cloud Seeker
08-11-04, 13:17
Steen22,
2.5 million Baht?? You can buy a brand new Mercedes for that kind of money out here, all fancy gimmicks included.
Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Cloudy
The trick in PL's statement is this: "we want to avoid the hole." Do we? I don't know if that's really true -- we may know we should avoid it, we may know going in the hole is going to get us hurt, but that doesn't mean we really want to avoid the hole. Read back through Philo's field reports or some of Skinless' musings from long ago and I think it's clear that for many wanting to avoid the hole is offset by wanting to explore the hole.
SA, I echo Juice's comment -- your message has been stated in a much less inflammatory way of late and it's clear it's being understood. Keep it up.
Of course, as is often the case, I'll disagree to some extent. It is quite possible to have a GFE experience with a bar girl over a longer time and there are some benefits to doing so. However, to do so requires the guy involved keeping his silly head on straight, and working to make sure the TG involved knows that it's straight. My last trip I spent the majority of my time in Chiang Mai (about six weeks) primarily with one TG and had no problems and an absolutely wonderful time. How? I simply kept reinforcing the fact that I was a customer, and that she was being paid to keep me happy, and that as long as that happened things would keep going. No love stuff, no boyfriend stuff -- she was being paid to keep me company and screw whenever I wanted, and in return she got a steady income and I'd help out with her problems as I saw fit. I paid her rent (directly to the landlord), some of her tuition (saw a dated receipt in her real name from the Uni), bought food for her family and baby for a trip home, (got some of the best "thank you" sex I've ever had when she returned) and so on, but it all still added up to standard LT prices, as some days I didn't pay her at all. No jewelry, one 250 baht jacket because I got sick of watching her shiver, some occassional pizzas because she had a thing for them and it was a nice break once in a while from Thai food. She was happy to have a steady customer and steady income as opposed to going with different guys every couple of nights, and, since she was a student who was quite concerned about her reputation as well working in a bar she wasn't into public displays.
The benefits? Well, one of my basic disagreements with SA is with the idea that sex is just all about getting your rocks off in the most efficient way possible. I don't particularly like efficient sex all the time. (Of course, there are times I very much do like it.) I like being with a partner who knows my likes and dislikes, how to push my buttons, and having the ability to push some of hers back. I like spending more that fifteen minutes and then moving on. I like deciding, in the middle of something else, that I'd like to have her right this instant, and then doing so. I like having a female body next to me sleeping. And I also like those rare occasions where I've got a parter with a brain who can carry on a conversation as well as fuck, and sometimes doing both things at once. And I could care less if any of it's real -- I'm not there for reality; I'm there to enjoy.
I've used the same approach with other less lengthy liasons, where I'll keep the same TG for a few days. Doesn't mean I'm parading around, sure as hell doesn't mean I'm falling in love -- just means I've found a good sex partner and someone I don't mind being around when the sex isn't happening. (Or sometimes just having a good repeat sex partner, period.)
The simple approach: I will be a good customer for you as long as you are good to me. If it starts to get messy, it's over. Of course that's the only relationship possible, as I will get on a plane and go away, likely forever.
And then the key thing is to stick to it. End it right away if she gets overly clingy or starts manipulating, insists on talking love or boyfriend/girlfriend after you correct and say customer, or starts being overly moody.
Naturally I don't do this all the time, as it takes identifying a good partner for this and being in the right mood and situation.
This doesn't mean 3F isn't a good approach for newbies or others, as it's absolutely the safest approach, (as Steen22's cautionary tale makes amply clear) but simply that for some of us, who can keep perspective, it's quite possible to nibble from the same cake for longer periods of time without going berserk.
The Traveler
08-11-04, 18:29
Joe Zop
well said.
It's simple, just keep control of your emotions and money.
The Traveler
08-11-04, 18:39
Steen
just a question : How many times have you been to thailand ?
I hardly can understand how anybody with just a tiny bit of common sense can act like you did.
An old car stolen, a house upcountry for "just" 1.5 million, being away for quite a while and she gets pregnant, 500 people invited for marriage party and so on.
That not just smells like a scam, it stinks.
There is no secret, it's all just common sense.
Think with your brain, not with your dick.
BTW, I wouldn't throw good money after bad one by hiring a private investigator. They will tell you what ever they like. Do you really believe that they will be after her, following her in the heat or rain ? You usually have to pay in advance, so why should they work for it ? You can't prove the opposite if they report a fictional story. It would also mean that you have to trust a total stranger without any reputation. Maybe he will also charge your girl to report innocent behaviour. So you better forget it and move on.
Steen22,
Don’t listen so much to people who can “hardly understand” how this could happen to you. They will also hardly understand that such statements could hurt you, and that those statements will not help you now, it’s just salt in your wounds. Simply heartless.
I think the loss in money is anyway not the biggest problem you have after that story. As I understood you also invested a lot of feeling and trust in that girl, and lost that too. That hurts like crazy – the more you loved her the more it hurts. Whatever comments you get here – it will not change anything what is going on in your heart, and only time can heal the wounds. But you can be sure – time WILL heal that wounds, it always does.
I agree with TT not to hire a PI in this case. If you want to do something you should contact Thai organizations which are specialized in bringing in money from unpaid invoices. Most of those “companies” have connection to the Thai military. To get back some of your money the family must be forced to sell the car, to sell the house, and they must be set under extreme pressure. You cannot do that, you are a foreigner, don’t even try it. But the military can do that easily. Nobody in Thailand likes conflicts with the military.
Those organizations get paid up to 50 % of what they bring back. Normally nothing in advance. The contact should be made by a Thai friend of yours, and not by you as a farang. But you should be aware then, that the methods those people use are sometimes not really legal, and you may not want to get involved in such a thing.
The best solution in your situation is to let go, to give it time, to let the wounds heal – and then to start over.
Joe Zop,
I think it is human nature to try to explore those holes, we are somehow magically gravitated by those holes. And it is also human nature to develop feelings and love, especially if there is already an existing mental and sexual relationship to somebody.
If I read your report on your last trip to Chiang Mai, and how you handled that girl I realize that I somehow admire your approach, but I also want to raise word that is quite unrealistic to implement such a technocratic “thank you”-sex relationship. I encounter the same problems sometimes with my service centers. Newcomers to the hobby, newbies in Thailand will come with the experience, that sex and love is somehow connected in life, and they only had sex with women they also loved, on the different levels love can develop. And even today I experience sex still as more satisfactory if feelings are involved.
I think the disconnection of sex and love is the biggest challenge those people face if they get involved with somebody from the Thai (may be Asian) sex industry. Prostitution in Europe, USA, Australia is very different from what we can experience here in Asia, and we are not or insufficiently prepared for GFE we can receive from those girls especially here in Thailand. That makes us vulnerable to investing feelings and developing love.
I believe that most of the preachers for 3F have experienced similar stories like Steen22 before, and out of that they developed this philosophy – as a kind of self protection. May be they did not loose so much money, but they were hurt, sometimes more than once, until they understood that most of those girls working in the industry have much more experience in dealing with customers than we have in dealing with girls. So – if we get into connection with the WRONG girl we are always in danger to loose the game, and to get hurt.
Reg. the disconnection of sex and love:
Some years ago I read an analysis from a German university regarding the sexual behavior of single men traveling to Pattaya. The results were interesting. 1.) More than 70 % of the travelers return within the next two years. 2.) During the first year to Pattaya most of the men had ONE women for all their vacation. During their second trip to Pattaya more than 50% of the men already changed and had sex with 2 or 3 girls. In the following years the men changed the girls more and more, staying with each girl only a few days, or may be only one night (Don’t take the numbers for granted, they might be wrong, too long ago that I read the report).
The general result of the analysis was, that men participating in the sex tourism are loosing their ability to develop long term relationships to women, they disconnect sex and love in their minds and develop the behavior to treat women as sex objects.
If I now take a look at my own life – I experienced somehow the same thing. During my first trips to Thailand years ago I had 2 similar love stories like Steen22, and I was endlessly hurt. I thought the pain would never end, but it did. I then started to treat the girls more as objects, and tried to protect myself from falling into love again. Today I am able to develop my service centers, and protect me better from getting hurt, but – is that really what I want? Did I win something, or did I loose something?
As TT says: “…just keep control of your emotions…”. Wao!! Is that so easy? Is it even possible? And – do I really want it? Is it not the experience of upcoming love, too, that I want? Is it not that I want to feel that I am alive? Don’t I want butterflies in the stomach? Is there no aspiration to feel that pain of missing somebody in your heart again, which everybody experienced much stronger when he was younger?
As for today I try to dismantle the protection wall around me again, step by step. I try to trust again, I am looking for GFEs, real GFEs, but I am watching closely all details, and I am checking out those girls which touch my heart. It anyway does not happen many times, the ability to develop some kind of intellectual level in a relationship is very limited here, which is in my point of view the conditio sine qua non for developing love. Its talking, not sex.
The real danger for me does not come from bar girls or other sex workers. Most of them are easy to understand, and do not fit into the scheme of girls I am falling in love with. The regular Thai girls are dangerous for me. Those, who combine the attractiveness and beauty of Thai women, the strong sexual desire of Asian woman and a high level education and intellectual abilities of western women. The perfect women. And – to close the ring of this comment now – those girls are my “holes”. And I will always fall into those holes again. I want to fall into those “holes”, because if I stop doing that I will be dead in my heart, as all those people which practice 3F WITHOUT EXCEPTIONS. Better being hurt sometimes than being dead.
Don’t know why I am so honest about myself here in this forum. I already see the vultures of this forum writing their comments about Giotto being pathetic. I imagine SAs triumph of Giotto having proved now to be a love sick foreigner. Go ahead, everybody. But – from the emotionally point of view - I am a happy man 3/4 of my time, and I am hurt and suffering the other quarter. And – that’s not too bad, I guess, and it makes my life moving in waves.
Steen22 (and all others), don’t forget – you will never be able to experience how happy you can be if you are not unhappy sometimes.
Giotto
The Traveler
08-12-04, 07:26
Giotto
I can understand that it could hurt him, but that wasn't my intend. I just wonder if there wasn't any warning sign, didn't he have any doubts and if yes, why he didn't follow those doubts and checked back if possible. He was even warned by someone else.
There is no secret to it, it's all common sense. 3F is one method to protect yourself from a scam like that, but as already pointed out below, that way we teach them to be piranhas. We show them that we do not care about them so why should they care about us ? Steen's story is just an example what some girls will do then. Seeing nothing more than a walking ATM machine instead a person with feelings and sorrows.
GFE or a relation like PL has is no prob at all as long as you keep in control. Watch your wallet and keep your eyes open. Again, no secret and no need to be an experienced monger, just use your brain and common sense.
I myself have spend a lot of money for my LT girl friends, altogether even more than Steen, but not becauase they asked for, just because I wanted to do it. It should always be fair for both sides so I set up an daily amount that I am willing to pay for her - depending on quality of provided services and attitude - and keep a virtual account in my mind where I calculate her income and expenses for her. The outcome is fair for both.
Anyway, everybody should be aware, that all money spend for a TG is gone ! PERIOD.
Having that in mind you only got to ask yourself if you want to spend the money or not. Simple and easy. If you like to invest something - like car, house, condo - open a company and buy it on the company name. Would you trust any prostitute back home ? I guess not, so why should you do in LOS.
Maybe my approach isn't that much different than SA's one, I just do not pray 3F, I pray common sense and being cautious.
BTW, do you tell Steen to enforce "russian encashment" like we call it ? He does seem fit to handle LOS at the current point of time and those guys will cheat him too. He would also have problems to find people like that and retaliation by the girls family is still a possibility even though I doubt it. There are no legal means to get back his money and I would avoid any illegal ones. It's gone.
It might hurt but probably will help him to avoid any further scams in the future if he had learned from it.
JuiceSpike
08-12-04, 14:28
Giotto,
You are a true romantic at heart. Nothing pathetic about this. True love hurts, it should be that way and it will always be that way. Your views are based, it seems to me, on true love, the type that we have all felt (I hope) at one point. True love is unconditional. Is it really?
Here is a question for you: What happens with your Thai sweethearts if you take the money out of the "love equation?"
It seems to me that you are renting women for your personal satisfaction, whatever this might be. But is this true love? Is this your convenient way to project your feelings of love on the situation when in all probability if you stop the money the woman will leave you?
In the context of paying a hooker for sex I think the woman is an object for sex and we are the objects for money they get. Nothing negative about this. But do not confuse this with love. This is the one thing that Thai hookers know very well but it seems that many guys don't get it. Just because she is sweet, gentle and charming it means she has feelings for you. Just because she is easy to be with and will go anywhere you want to go does not mean she has feelings for you. There has been studies done with Thai hookers and farangs relationships (done by Thais) that shows women don't feel love but become dependent for the man taking care for them, in other words, love is not the reason they want to be with the you but their dependence on your money is. It looks like love, it feels like love but it is not love...
Thai hookers are strong emotionally. They know the weakness of men; they know that men are impulsive, think with their dicks and not with their brains. They know that if they are sweet they will get what they want: money. What makes Thai hookers appealing is that they are fun, easy going to be with. Maybe this is the GFE that so many talk about. Is the GFE an illusion or the real thing? It is real when you are paying for it. It's a service.
The 3Fs is not a method to prove you are a macho guy. The 3Fs is a way to avoid getting confused about what is going on when you pay for play. Put it this way: if you don't pay you don't play. Simple and straight forward. The 3Fs does not mean you are cold bastard. It means you pay for sex and for the company and then you move on. If you don't then you run the risk of really confusing the situation.
The regular girls that come in contact with farangs have an agenda. All women do and men do as well. What makes it different is what their agenda is. I have had 3 "real" relationships with professional Thai women and we had a great time and friendship and of course great sex too. My motivation for seeking them out was sex and friendship. Theirs was the same until the relationship progressed and talks turned into the topic of marriage.
In all 3 situations I was quoted some high dowry demands followed by how their families would need to be taken care forever as well. I know about the Thai tradition and dowry but I was also told by all 3 women that farangs pay more because we have more. I told all 3 women that I would not negotiate a dowry but I would give the family something so as to not to insult anybody. I also told them that I would have a pre-nuptual agreement and would only marry officially in the US and not in Thailand. The talk of long term relationship stopped and we kept seeing each other until one of us got bored or moved on. I told them what my intentions were and never promised anything to get free sex. I paid for all the expenses for going out, travel and I bought one woman a digital camera because she liked taking pictures. I'm still friends with all of them and hope to continue that. Was my relationship for long term with these women based on money? No money, no honey.
When going to Thailand don't look for love in the wrong places. Same, same around the world.
juice
Interesting, Giotto. Personally, I've gone kind of the opposite route, as it's seemed that with every trip to LOS I end up going with fewer rather than more partners, although there's nothing hard and fast there and things vary by trip. I did the "kid in a candy store" thing my first few times there and had multiple partners each day but I find myself tending to less of that as visits go on and looking more for hookups that last a couple of days or more. I'd say that overall my "hit rate" in terms of finding a good and enthusiastic sex partner is somewhere around 50% or so (there are always the starfish and the mechanical "you no come yet" business-like ones who show up when you think they're going to be something so completely different) so once I find a good one who I like it just seems to me to make sense to keep her around a bit longer as opposed to head out for another hit-or-miss attempt. Maybe it's also the idea that since you can have pretty much anyone in the areas we're talking about with no great difficulty, the trick is to figure out what you really want and why.
Don't misunderstand me -- there are emotions involved in my LT assignations, but there are simply clear boundaries for them. I don't spend multiple days with someone unless I truly like them and am interested in them. I have genuine affection for most of the ladies I spent longer periods with, hope they are well, and occasionally will look them up or see them again on future trips (if they're around and it's not a big deal.) I very much like having situations where I can relax and let an affectionate bond be there, but you've always got to keep in mind that the affection only lasts as long as you're keeping the meter filled and the affection you're feeling is for your money. As TT noted, it's about keeping control of your money and emotions -- it doesn't mean you can't use either, just that control is the key.
To me, it's like a relationship with a co-worker while at work -- you can share things, have an affectionate connection, spend time together and can tell each other things, but it's usually (and in the case of bar girls, always) a work friendship as opposed to a real one, even if you go out for drinks later. If they or you get another job or one of you gets moved to another office, that's usually it. It's basically a friendship of convenience and proximity. (And, yes, such work things may develop into more, but that's generally a bad idea in the TG/farang work relationship.)
I've got very fond memories of the TGs with whom I've had LT relationships and had emotional attachments to them on some level, but that also doesn't mean I am somehow blind to the fact that some/many have told me outright lies about their personal circumstances, such as whether they were married or not or the various travails in their lives, or that they're around me because I'm providing them money, as that's the true bottom line. There are a few TGs who I've seen trip after trip who I like talking to and who I've never boinked or given money, and who appear to like the same situation, but those are rarer and those are also ones where my radar would start jangling in a major way the moment anything changed.
Of course, I've got regular friends who fit the same description -- who are basically so full of shit it's not funny, but they just can't help it because that's who they are, as opposed to doing it because it's their job to do so. Some of these folks would have a much higher percentage chance of taking advantage of me, because I'd knowingly let them. The difference is that I'd help those friends at the drop of a hat with anything they needed, even if I didn't expect to get it back, because I'm confident I know their hearts, flaws and all, and have confidence they'd also be there for me if I needed them. When you start involving sex in the equation all those lovely endorphins start churning in your system and you can make decisions based on the high you're feeling. That's why boundary systems such as the 3Fs are necessary.
I agree with you absolutely that westerners in general are unprepared for the disconnection of sex and love that they will experience in places such as LOS, which is precisely why SA's banging on the 3F method is useful, and which is why it's the absolute safest practice to follow. I also agree that my general approach is not a good one for newbies to follow, though I think there are pieces it can be useful to incorporate. Indeed, it's not a good idea to follow it at all unless you truly do have control over your emotions, and can recognize that the western concept of love does not at all apply in this situation -- so even if you were to be so foolish as to "fall in love" it really doesn't mean a damn thing. It's not some kind of trump card. Instead, it's kind of like realizing that you were overdressed for an occasion after arriving home once it's ended. Ain't nothing you're gonna do about it that's at all useful, so you may as well just forget about it.
PosterLion
08-12-04, 15:56
some more grey for the fray
first off, wow! thanks to tt, giotto, and jz for some excellent replies. i think i'll throw my writing shingle in the toilet.
last but not least, props to sa for creating this thread single handedly with his never ending and repetitive approach. a humble bow from me to all.
oops! hey steen! i should thank you the most for your heart-breaking story. take the advice of the other readers and learn a lesson, albeit a hard one, and one that is likely to scar you for life. but it is life we are living and life is a scar waiting to happen. you are still healthy and alive, be glad!
one of my better friends here in thailand lost b400,000 when transferring money to his girlfriend's account for her university expenses. she broke up with him after the money cleared.
i feel for you guys that have tried and lost. i have my own developing story and maybe (if i can stay focused) i should try to relate it now.
i appreciate the guys with the softer modified 3f approach (g and jz). i am quite certain we have some things in common. my story (as many know from this board) seems to be reaching a climax. and not a really good one either. oh well, if it pleases the gods and i hope it does, let our bygones be friends.
===
my gf and i seem to be at an impasse. i don't know where to start with the explanations and the delineations and the what nots, but i can say that it is highly possible our days are numbered. this is not a story like steens, but i can tell you that for me it is no less easy, being that i am the one at fault.
giotto. it was touching to read your understanding of what i said and your comments about it are the very person that i have become. i long for the hole, i want to fall in because it is something that has become impossible for me to do.
many of you have been reading my posts since i first met the spoiled daddy's girl (which is of course not who she was at all, but the person i made her into to defend myself from harm).
as it turns out, i have come to realize that life has already done it's damage to me. i am beyond repair and i said those very words to my current girlfriend. we are both cut from the same cloth so it is completely exasperating for me to think that our relationship might fail. the day we decided to get together she told me, "you are to be my last boyfriend."
to which i replied in kind, "and you will absolutely be my last girlfriend. i will never try this again."
and so here it is some 1.5 years later and it looks as if we should have never began. i was so sure i might change but i did not change and now... let our bygones be friends.
===
i have been burned and fried a few times in relationships. i guess the first one that got me was my first one. in it, i caught the love of my life with another guy. i was 13. after many years of hindsight i can see that her infidelity never left me and in fact created within me the very same monster. you can call this an excuse if you like. i won't mind.
for those of you that have read me with scrutiny, you know a bit about my past. i started everything at the age of 13: smoking pot, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, and having sex.
by the age of 15 i was popping acid, valium, demerol, seconal, nembutal, placidills, qualudes, smoking angel dust, and an assortment of other things, including speed of all varieties: black molly, white cross, and two really powerful prescription pills i can't remember the name of, drats!
at the age of 17 i was dealing in cocaine (an ounce a week), qualudes (500 tabs a week), and pot (five pounds a week), all fronted of course. i bought a 1979 suzuki gs 1000 that year and paid in cash ($3,300).
i became addicted to drugs and was saved at the last minute when i decided to go to university. it was not the schooling that saved me but the fact that i got away from the crowd that was giving me all the hard stuff. i still stayed with the trade to finance my education (although pot only, which i started growing and cultivating on federal land at the age of 18. i've got pictures! lol).
and blah blah blah, and so on. it is a true story and nothing more. i fancy the title to be something like, "we all do what we gotta", or "the capitalist agenda." maybe you guys can recommend something a little more catchy and marketable. :)
now i am living in thailand with my last girlfriend. she is pissed off at me because i can't stay away from the gogos and the pink bars. i don't know what to do! i have spent my entire life mixed up in sex and drugs and just can't seem to find a way out of it. the shit turns me on!
hell, i don't even do drugs anymore (unless someone offers, which is to say that i never officially quit anything), all i do is drink and smoke and hit the places where the easy women are. it has been my life for the last 29 years. old habits are hard to break.
===
it should be understandable that i don't trust anything or anyone after a review of my life. it should also be understandable that trust is my keenest desire, because i can't.
my hats off to all of you that have thrown your hearts to the swine. i wish to feel their trampling hooves, and i have, just like everyone. it has tainted me for life.
===
what it cost me:
b32000 for a computer for her
b4000 a month for rent
b8000 for the kitchen i posted pictures of
b5000 for a new phone
b80000 for other unremembered items
=====
total: let's just round up for the hell of it and say b200,000 in all. it's not much. and i gotta thank her because it was her that gave me the courage to set out on my own and forget about the everyday life. now it's high time i start on the novel. i hope i can do it. it is my dream. :)
===
just last night, after a week of struggles because i stayed out all night, she told me that she has made up her mind and that i should move out.
i hung my head and did not reply. then we started talking and here is the jest of the conversation. this should be in the thai women opinion and advice section, but it is not.
"i talked to my sister today", she said.
"what about?"
"well, she just wanted to know if you were still going to bring me to america."
"uh huh."
"i told her you wanted to stay in thailand."
"what did she say?"
"she said that she thought it was not a good thing because she knows i want to go to america. she said that she thinks you have calculated it all out and that you are staying with me because it is convenient."
i swallowed hard, thinking her sister very smart. she continued, speaking of the thoughts of one of her friends named joe.
"even joe thinks you aren't good for me. he was surprised that you aren't giving be saving money. he asked me what i would do if one day you dumped me, start all over from scratch?"
it was then that i truly understood the thai mentality. none of their fixations on money are meant in a bad way. they are just concerned for their future as we all are. hence, the 3f method.
now i am sitting here unable to love because i am a broken man that has calculated everything out, watching the stock market and hoping to double my money. if i do then i will buy this girl a b2,000,000 condominium in the sky, just for giving me the chance.
after it is all over you can find me in the nearest brothel, doing the same thing i've been doing...
all my life.
poster out.
PosterLion
08-12-04, 18:28
A CULTURAL EXCHANGE
Tonight my girlfriend and I had a talk and I played her some songs from one of my favorite Oklahoma Artists, Garth Brooks. Well hey guys, what are you going to do, condemn me because of my roots?
He went to OSU in Stillwater at the same time that I did and we used to go down to Wet Willies Bar and listen to him play while we searched for girls to take home or someone to sell our wares to (and now you know what those wares were).
So tonight I grabbed a CD and stuck it in the computer and booted up Garth's Lyrics page and I told my girl this, "Baby, you've been teaching me about Thailand for 8 months and now it's time that I taught you a little about Oklahoma."
Personally I don't think the culture is so much different, but what would you expect from the likes of me.
After the songs were over we both had tear stained eyes and we had both become a little bit closer through the culture of music.
She understood that the RODEO was my desire to be a writer (which she knows I need the privacy of my experiences to accomplish). It shouldn't take to much imagination to understand my friends in low places nor the river which runs to where it can. By the way, my Thai nickname is Narm. :)
Cheers!
Poster...
The Songs:
FRIENDS IN LOW PLACES
Blame it all on my roots
I showed up in boots
And ruined your black tie affair
The last one to know
The last one to show
I was the last one
You thought you'd see there
And I saw the surprise
And the fear in his eyes
When I took his glass of champagne
And I toasted you
Said, honey, we may be through
But you'll never hear me complain
'Cause I've got friends in low places
Where the whiskey drowns
And the beer chases my blues away
And I'll be okay
I'm not big on social graces
Think I'll slip on down to the oasis
Oh, I've got friends in low places
Well, I guess I was wrong
I just don't belong
But then, I've been there before
Everything's all right
I'll just say goodnight
And I'll show myself to the door
Hey, I didn't mean
To cause a big scene
Just give me an hour and then
Well, I'll be as high
As that ivory tower
That you're livin' in
'Cause I've got friends in low places
Where the whiskey drowns
And the beer chases my blues away
And I'll be okay
I'm not big on social graces
Think I'll slip on down to the oasis
Oh, I've got friends in low places
3rd Verse:
I guess I was wrong
I just don't belong
But then, I've been there before
And everything is alright
I'll just say goodnight
And I'll show myself to the door
I didn't mean to cause a big scene
Just wait 'til I finish this glass
Then sweet little lady
I'll head back to the bar
And you can kiss my ass
===
THE RIVER
You know a dream is like a river
Ever changin' as it flows
And a dreamer's just a vessel
That must follow where it goes
Trying to learn from what's behind you
And never knowing what's in store
Makes each day a constant battle
Just to stay between the shores.. and
I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry
Like a bird upon the wind
These waters are my sky
I'll never reach my destination
If I never try
So I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry
Too many times we stand aside
And let the waters slip away
'Til what we put off 'til tomorrow
Has now become today
So don't you sit upon the shoreline
And say you're satisfied
Choose to chance the rapids
And dare to dance the tide.. yes
I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry
Like a bird upon the wind
These waters are my sky
I'll never reach my destination
If I never try
So I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry
And there's bound to be rough waters
And I know I'll take some falls
But with the good Lord as my captain
I can make it through them all.. yes
I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry
Like a bird upon the wind
These waters are my sky
I'll never reach my destination
If I never try
So I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry
Yes, I will sail my vessel
'Til the river runs dry
'Til the river runs dry
===
RODEO
His eyes are cold and restless
His wounds have almost healed
And she'd give half of Texas
Just to change the way he feels
She knows his love's in Tulsa
And she knows he's gonna go
Well, it ain't no woman, flesh and blood
It's that damned old rodeo
Well, it's bulls and blood
It's dust and mud
It's the roar of a Sunday crowd
It's the white in his knuckles
The gold in the buckle
He'll win the next go 'round
It's boots and chaps
It's cowboy hats
It's spurs and latigo
It's the ropes and the reins
And the joy and the pain
And they call the thing rodeo
She does her best to hold him
When his love comes to call
But his need for it controls him
And her back's against the wall
And it's "So long girl, I'll see you"
When it's time for him to go
You know the woman wants her cowboy
Like he wants his rodeo
Well, it's bulls and blood
It's dust and mud
It's the roar of a Sunday crowd
It's the white in his knuckles
The gold in the buckle
He'll win the next go 'round
It's boots and chaps
It's cowboy hats
It's spurs and latigo
It's the ropes and the reins
And the joy and the pain
And they call the thing rodeo
It'll drive a cowboy crazy
It'll drive the man insane
And he'll sell off everything he owns
Just to pay to play her game
And a broken home and some broken bones
Is all he'll have to show
For all the years that he spent chasin'
This dream they call rodeo
Well, it's bulls and blood
It's dust and mud
It's the roar of a Sunday crowd
It's the white in his knuckles
The gold in the buckle
He'll win the next go 'round
It's boots and chaps
It's cowboy hats
It's spurs and latigo
It's the ropes and the reins
And the joy and the pain
And they call the thing rodeo
It's the broncs and the blood
It's the steers and the mud
And they call the thing rodeo
===
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
me...
PosterLion, Joe Zop, JuiceSpike,
Oh my god! What is happening to this thread?
It is 1.21 AM, 13.08.2004, the day after Queens Birthday. I am just coming home, after having dinner, walking through the empty streets - all bars closed, only restaurants open - but somehow I did not find my way home earlier. Tomorrow I have to leave Bangkok for some days...
I check my mails, and then read the forum - long posts in this thread, serious posts. People talking about themselves, giving something to others, something real... - I remember, how I was disgusted when I read the posts of this thread first, some months ago, and now this!!!
I am surprised. I am impressed! Really. I expected surprises, but not this. I am very impressed. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU.
I will go sleep now, and read all the posts again tomorrow. I will try to find some answers, and I will try to give comments as good as I can. Tomorrow. Not now. I would not work. I am too tired.
But - let's get rid of the easy and necessary replies:
PosterLion,
I will send you a PM right now. It's time to meet somewhere, having a beer and talk. I will be back soon. Next week on Wednesday.
TT,
It does not matter whether you intend to hurt somebody or not, if that "somebody" gets hurt. It also does not matter whether you intend to shoot somebody or not, if he is dead afterwards.
PosterLion, Joe Zop, JuiceSpice,
Tomorrow. I hope that's OK.
SA,
Please, don't kill this discussion.
Giotto
Are we having some kind of contest for the longest post? (-:
Carry on, my friends.
LJ
The Traveler
08-12-04, 20:37
Joe Zop, Giotto, JuiceSpike
I find myself in all your posts more or less.
I guess Juice is correct in his estimation that many guys mix up love with the fun of good sex and physical attraction to those cute girls.
I have spend the last 20yrs mostly with Thais, had a few LT girlfriends, hundreds of ST, I lived with them upcountry, traveled with them, brought them back home and spend my time with them day in and day out. I believe to have a very good understanding of how they think.
Poster is correct that many of them try to get a lot of money because they are concerned about their future, but not all. I also have met girls who do not care about money at all, just wanted to stay with me because they liked me. Those were the ones I had the most fun and was very happy with. Sure, there are some bad ones out who only see your wallet and as soon as it is empty leave you in an instance. The trick is to avoid them and I believe it's easy to sense them. Play safe regarding money and you will see if they still want to stay with you. True love doesn't care if you are rich or poor.
I also had fallen in love on a few occasions, but what always rescued me was the fact that I am a very rational guy. I do not get lost in a relation, I do question things I see and use my brain. If my GF would need a house, condo or car and if I want one too, ok let's buy it, but never on her name. It should be on my name or if that's not possible I must have at least control over the investment. I might give it to her later on as a present but only if she really deserves it.This way I can't get cheated and won't have bad feelings because it was my free will to give it to her without any conditions. She already earned it somehow and as long as it's fair for both sides it will be ok.
Acting that way doesn't mean to be cold hearted, calculating everything. I am generous and do not like to count money, but if their demands get bigger and bigger I gonna ask myself what they really are up for, me or my money ? As soon as I believe that they are just aiming for my money I close my wallet. Simple and easy. ST is somewhat different, frontiers are clear, I am out for fun and good sex, she wants money and nothing else. Straight and easy. No place for dreams.
Giotto, thinking and acting that way I do not get why Steen fell into that trap so deep.
He surely had heard about scams before, he was already warned by someone else, he caught her lying but still went on without any consequences. That's really not very smart. OK, he was in love and forgave her, but those incidents should have made him more cautious. But he went on like a blind men. That sounds to me like someone who turns off power at his brain to have more left for his dick. It might sound harsh, but he gives that impression. Just a small portion of common sense could have saved him a lot of money and a bad experience.
BTW, your comparison with the shooting is nonsense, no harm done to him. Sometimes a straight "you have been stupid" is more helpful than a "I am so sorry my little boy". He won't learn from it if you only blame the girl. Yes, she played him, but she couldn't if he wouldn't be playable.
Samus Aran
08-13-04, 00:47
Juice,
Its all about how the girl makes the guy feel. It has nothing do to with the way the man makes the hooker feel. Dont ever forget this cause the girls are numb to the advances of these farangs. They just do their job. These love sick guys are purchasing the affection of these bar hookers. Its plain and clear to see. The hooker fill this service. Its ok. As long as you know that this is what you are getting. Purchasing the fantasy. Really, you are purchasing a cum shot. That is all. MAny guys purchase for the fantasy of being with an exotic asian girl. Although, SA disagrees that this is the reason you should be paying for the service of a Thai hump machine. SA just thinks some of the guys posting are a little bit off track. They come back on one day. Its all a game anyways. Juice you have a nice way of putting it. Your many trips to Thailand have taught you well and you know what is up.
Giotto,
SA knows that somehow you think you mean something to the Thai hos that you date. That your weatern upbringing is some how ok to force on to these humpers. Dude, drop the charade and just be a player in the game. This is about sex. Emotions and feelings should not be in the equation. Its all a mind game. SA never advocates to be mean to these women. No, let her do her job and them move on.
SA is off to Singapore next week. A great city. Let me ask you guys this. There certainly is a lot of hoing going on in Singapore. But what SA does not see is the before sex and after sex handholding, shopping, etc. No, SA thinks that the men visiting Singapore are in a higher class. They know the score and well aware of the game. The girls must be from a higher mold. Rarely, and SA means rarely do you see any foreigner in public showing any kind of emotion with a hooker. It just doesnt happen. It is a straight business transaction with no GFE involved. SA thought that this is the way its supposed to be done. SA visited the Singapore section and many other sections and none of them have the type of discussions that go on in the Thailand section about long term relationships with bar humpers or sex workers. TT, is the sex scene in your part of the world similar to Thailand where you have love sick men fawning for some young sex worker? Cause SA doesnt see this type or relationshipping between a ho and a man happening on the streets of USA! Just doesnt happen. Why is it then that men come to Thailand and cant keep their emotions and affection in check? What the f--k?
SA
Samus,
Your thread is getting out of hand.
Guys talking like girls, getting all emotional about love and honesty and relationships and other bullshiit.
So called Poetry that too me is borderline gay.
Can't you be your own moderator of the thread in your name?
Can't you get rid of these softees or turn them into real men?
Hump, pump and dump!
TT,
Let me comment on your last post first, as for me it is full of contradictions.
I agree with you that “True love doesn't care if you are rich or poor”. You use that in context with TGs staying with you without wanting money. JuiceSpike is describing the same thing with “True love is unconditional” and is questioning that statement.
But obviously this statement is not valid for yourself. You are “rescued” because you are rational, because you use your brain. Rescued from falling in “true love”? You keep control over all your investments for your GFs and will only give it as a present if she “really deserves it”. Does that mean, that you can only develop “true love” under the condition that your brain approves it? Do you really believe that you can control that? As soon as you realize that “their demands get bigger” and “they are just aiming for” your money you turn the true-love switch to “off” in your brain, and everything is fine?
Again your comments on Steen22, you “do not get why Steen fell into that trap so deep”. Yes, I can understand that you don’t get it, with your understanding of “true love”. I have a very clear picture about what happened to Steen22. And the last thing he really needs in the moment is somebody who tells him that he was a “blind man” and “not really very smart”. If you read his post you can find, that he knows that already.
Comments like this came only from you, nobody else in this forum wrote such a comment, clearly missing any TACT which would be appropriate here!
Considering this missing ability of being polite in the right moment and simply NOT to write what you might think I also understand, that you do not get my “shooting” comparison, and describe it as nonsense. How do you know that your comments on Steen22 did not do any “harm” to him? Not only bullets can hurt somebody, as we all know words can hurt much more sometimes.
Giotto
Silly Puppy
08-13-04, 03:30
Well, TT seems to be a very calculating man. He loves Thailand because he can excercise his money relatively at ease with great return for sex, almost free. I find it ironic and hilarious at the same time for this type of personality. I am 100% sure that in his country where he's originally from, there is no way he can say or excercise such pathetic things because he has no chance. I feel so sorry for him. To me he is not REAL!
JuiceSpike,
You are the first one who tells me that I am a “true romantic at heart”. I was never titled to be romantic, not from GFs, not from anybody in my closer environment. Always described to be too rational, too brain-driven. Now – I was thinking how to deal with this assignment – and I really prefer to take it as compliment in this forum, especially in this thread. Surprised about myself, again.
“True love is unconditional”. Yes, it is for me. It is unconditional regarding the strong wish to be together, to make the loved one happy, to care about everything in her life, to miss her, to think about her if she is not around, to get her out of problems, if she has some.
True love has NOTHING to do with sex. True love has NOTHING to do with money. True love has NOTHING to do with that what we experience with hookers in Bangkok, whether it is a GFE or practiced 3F.
We really should distinguish between “falling in love” and “love”. Falling in love describes the first period of a developing relationship, in which you can feel that what I described below as “butterflies in your stomach”. This period always ends after a few days, weeks or months, and either the relationship dies down, or something like “love” is developing.
Love needs long time to develop, in my point of view. It needs trust, detailed knowledge of your partner, the many small things in life you love or hate on that specific girl, experiences (journeys, parties, discussions) together etc. etc. . Before I do not stay together with somebody for around a year I would never use the term “love” for what I feel.
For that it is impossible for the standard Bangkok traveler to experience love in Bangkok, within the time he normally stays here. The dangerous thing is to fall in love with somebody, and then NOT give that relationship time to develop, to wait whether it is really love one day or not.
I think it is possible that you start to fall in love with a bar girl if you go for GFEs and see that girl again and again. And – it can happen to you that you start to fall in love with a regular girl you always see in a disco in your hometown. This is first of all the same thing, and the fact that you pay money for the bar girl does not switch off the possibility that this happens. It happens in your heart, if you have one, and it has nothing to do with money.
Now – you would never buy a condo, car etc. for that regular girl in your hometown, after seeing her a few weeks, you would date her, you would try to see her as many times as possible to develop a relationship. So – WHY SHOULD YOU BUY A CONDO, CAR ETC. FOR A BANGKOK BAR GIRL AFTER A FEW WEEKS? That’s also the same thing, as I understand it, I simply would not do it.
Now - the differences:
Your regular girl in your hometown dates only you, and she has a well-paid job. Your bar girl in Bangkok will sleep with somebody else tomorrow to make money, for whatever reasons (sister drives with motorbike against tree, sister injured, motorbike damaged, tree falls on house, mother in house injured and trapped, father gets water buffalo to take the tree away, and water buffalo dies on heart attack and falls on father. Please send 2,000,000 baht for new motorbike, house, water buffalo and the hospital invoices for sister, mother, father.).
Your regular girl in your hometown connects love and sex, and she only sleeps with you if she at least start to fall in love with you. The bar girl has completely disconnected love and sex, necessarily, otherwise she could not work. She WORKS. That’s it. But she can fall in love, too! (I recommend a discussion with a bar girl to everybody, about the issue “men are butterflies”. If you admit that you take other girls, that you have sex with more than one girl you are a “butterfly”. But – a bar girl never considers herself to be a butterfly, she WORKS. Because she is working she usually does not have a boyfriend of husband, but even if she has, she will NOT consider herself to be a “butterfly”.)
Coming back to the point: You allow yourself to fall in love with a bar girl, and you have to make a decision immediately: Can you accept the idea that she will be touched by another man tomorrow night (and there are no limits about your fantasy of ugly, old, fat farang men, just read SAs Emporium experiences) or will it drive you crazy?
There you are, that’s the point on which the money problem joins the game. And you HAVE TO make a decision then.
Coming back to your question now:
<What happens with your Thai sweethearts if you take the money out of the "love equation?">
Easy to answer now:
If you are in the “falling in love” period the BG needs money, otherwise she would not work. If you exclude that problem, if you cannot find a solution you both can live with, if you “take the money out of the “love equitation” there will not be any future, there will be no love, no relationship, and the BG will go back to work. It’s that easy.
If you somehow manage to really “love” a BG you will not care about money anyway, you will simply want get her out of the shit. And if she really loves you, she will simply only take what she really needs, and will try to save your money for you and for your both future. It’s that easy, too.
The dangerous combination is that you really love a BG which is a piranha and does NOT love you, just makes a movie (Steen22s story is a good example for that). Then you loose a lot of feeling, trust, money, and you will be endlessly hurt. But as long as you allow yourself to fall in love you will NOT be able to avoid that.
3F for me is only a method to avoid falling in love with somebody. That’s all. Finally it depends on each individual man: Does he like to have a GFE and emotions to get involved into his hobby, does he allow himself to fall in love? Does he generally take risks in life? Isn’t that what all life is about, taking risks and chances?
Now the contradiction in what I wrote: I do not believe that it is possible to allow or not allow yourself to fall in love. It happens. It cannot be controlled.
Next question:
<It seems to me that you are renting women for your personal satisfaction, whatever this might be. But is this true love? Is this your convenient way to project your feelings of love on the situation when in all probability if you stop the money the woman will leave you?>
With regard to my service center factory – yes, of course I am renting women for my personal satisfaction, even if it is a 3F experience. And – IT IS FOR SURE NOT REAL LOVE. It has nothing to do with that!
Money: Service centers are contract partners, and if you do not pay your violin teacher you will not get violin lessons.
Dowry and long term relationships:
I had 2 LT relationships with TGs since I stay in Thailand, both with regular girls. I still live in a good relationship with my GF. In both relationships money was not an issue. Of course I took care for the girls, when they had no own income. I would do the same thing in my hometown. And – TT – after now 5 years staying with my GF I bought many things on her name. A car for example, I WILL NOT DRIVE A CAR IN BANGKOK ANYWAY, why should it be bought on my name? We founded a company on her name, to run a business – and she is making money with that company now. As I would do it on my hometown for my girlfriend.
My GF wants to marry – of course. But I strictly said NO already in the beginning of the relationship. She accepted that. What she does not know is that I will marry her one day, simply to make sure that everything is prepared for the time when I will not be on this earth any more. And I will pay a very high dowry, because I want to pay a very high dowry, because this means something for her and for her family. But – I know, I will get back all that money the day we get married. And for one day she will be the happiest woman on earth – all the other days she has to suffer, living with me.
Giotto
PS: Did I really write all that?
Is it really necessary to derail into whether someone's comments were polite or not in what has otherwise been a decent discussion? Let's not devolve into personal stuff again, please, just let the issue drop! All here completely lack context to know what Steen22 does or does not know or understand about the scene or how he does or doesn't take the comments he's received -- he's only got two posts for heaven's sake! In any event, from my reading of his story, it's not even absolutely clear that he is the character who is the victim as opposed to someone who is relaying someone else's tale of woe.
PL, it seems the essential question for you would seem to be the one you asked in another thread -- what is your purpose? Or, to put it a way I've used with clients, if you get everything you realistically can of what you want, where do you actually see yourself in ten years or so? Do you see yourself in the same situation, in the Big Durian, hitting the hot spots, with the major difference being that you've been successful with your writing? Settled in with a single Thai honey somewhere? Or what?
I think it's human nature -- not Thai or anywhere else specific -- to not only worry about what the future holds but to want to consider ways to prepare for it. This is especially true if you feel yourself in a tenuous or powerless position. In the case of your girlfriend/ex-girlfriend, insecurity about her future is certainly a reasonably normal reaction when you're out hitting the hot spots and banging other chicks in lieu of hitting it with her. You've as much as admitted that to some extent you've been staying with her because it's convenient -- she'd be a fool not to feel that and worry about what it means to her situation. Anyone in a relationship would worry about the same thing.
As far as bar girls and getting money, and Steen's tale, well, let's face it: some are like sales reps who will do absolutely anything to get the most money out of a sale, and who have no real concern or worry about methodology or what the outcome is for the customer, as the job is do whatever is needed to generate high sales. Others take a less extreme approach, but it's still ultimately a variation on the theme, as the idea is to make money. The behavioral difference could be summed up as the difference between making sales and creating a good customer base. In the former the happiness of the customer is of little concern -- the presumption is that there's always another so burnt bridges aren't really a problem. In the latter the goal is usually to create steady long-term income with targeted clients.
We all worry about falling in with the former category unless it's strictly on a ST basis, in which case that "do anything to get as much money as possible" aspect can be a very stimulating thing. :D
JuiceSpike
08-13-04, 05:02
Giotto,
Hmm, I kind of lost many of your points in your zig-zag thinking process... I did get something though. You seem to have a good understanding of the bar girl's perspective. I don't really have it but I don't think I'm missing out too much.
Yes, you did write all that... :D... Good luck with everything.
Poster,
It's looking like you will need to do some damage control with your GF... :) Ready to start your novel now?
Joe,
You wrote: ..."do anything to get as much money as possible" aspect can be a very stimulating thing..." Yeah, it works even with ST and regular girls looking for a husband... :D
juice
Joe Zop,
Many things said already in the post to JuiceSpike. No need to repeat it.
I disagree with you in one general point: I simply believe that everyone is limited in controlling emotions. Thats the basic difference between rationality and emotions, indicated also by “motion” inside the word. You are “moved” from outside, or from inside your heart, with only limited options to control it.
You learn over the years to control it more and more. Especially in business meetings I must control my emotions many times, if a customer talks nonsense, or provokes, not to react. That’s an example of emotions which can be controlled.
I think love is not controllable. May be falling in love is more controllable, but also not completely. It happens to you, or it does not happen.
Years ago I was on your track. I always asked myself what love is, when I stayed together with GFs/wife a longer than a year. I missed that “butterfly in my stomach” feeling from the beginning, which I considered to be love, and always thought that something is wrong with me, regarding love, why do I not feel anything if I now think about my partner?
I was developing my life, building a home for my family, having kids, running my business, driving nice cars, accumulating some wealth – so busy, that the days were filled, everything was organized, the life insurances were paid and the life dropped away somehow, day by day. I never asked myself whether I was really happy doing all that.
Years ago I met somebody. I was trying to avoid a catastrophe, but it was impossible. Though I thought I was a rational and responsible husband, father, business man – after a year I realized that I could not deal with that. I moved to Asia and started new.
That time I felt love, the only time in my life up to now. But I am still sure that it was love. It was so different from all what I felt before. And - absolutely unexpected, and absolutely not controllable. But today I still know how love feels like, and I will never forget that.
It did not work with that girl, but it changed my life. Today I would not like to miss that experience, though I was endlessly hurt that time when she left. And today, when I write this, I still feel tears coming to my eyes, and I have to fight to avoid crying. SA - I think I am a love-sick foreigner, right?
Now – I doubt that it is that what the normal Thailand visitors experience in Thailand. And I agree that 3F is a simple method to avoid those problems. But it is also a method to only get may be 10% of what you can get if you take the risk to go for a GFE. My god, this is life, and we only have that one life. Why not taking a risk and have feelings, being hurt, but learning something, being alive, enjoying the minutes?
Yes, there are piranhas out there. But – do you really want me to pass on all emotional experiences and simply reduce those mongering activities to an physical act of sex? Really, then I can better use my left hand for that.
I like the protection aspect on that 3F discussion, for all those who want to protect themselves and their LT relationships at home. That is absolutely OK for me, and very very understandable.
I don’t like all justifications of 3F which discriminate all hookers, bar girls, sex workers to be heartless piranhas, which are only interested in money. It is simply not true, if I look back on my experiences. It is definitely wrong. This are women, some of the extremely sensitive and honest, some of them paying you back 100 times what you give to them (except money, because they don’t have money, otherwise they would not work).
Don’t know, whether anybody can understand what I think.
Giotto
White Tiger
08-13-04, 06:40
Giotto,
I understand perfectly well what you are saying. If only it's as simple as that, life would be perfect. There is too many twist and turns that tends to complicate things, sighhhh.
Regards,
Alex
Samus Aran
08-13-04, 08:52
Fellas,
P U!!!!! The word "Love", phrases like "Unconditional Love" in the SA section of the WSG! Oh my what is happening! SA cant believe that someone would go out and use those words in the same sentence with hooker, Thai hooker, bar girl. SA has asked repeatedly why is their even a discussion about carrying on a relationship with a Thai hump machine or even using words like "love" and "commitment" with a thai bar hooker?
SA just doesnt understand it. You know, SA just thinks the level of mongerer coming to Thailand is getting lower and lower. SA doesnt see this kind of love sick behavior happening in Singapore where guys seem to get the whole idea of paid sex. Help me out here.
Why is this GFE handholding type of relationshipping with a thai hooker happening in Thailand? Is it the type of men or the low class type of women that exists here?
SA has even asked his white female friend about all of this courting happening on the streets of Bangkok. Her answer, "It makes the whole idea of paying for sex tolerable by saying she is your girlfriend. And takinghe rto fancy restaurants and shopping trips and supporting her schooling makes the guy feel he isnt really paying for sex cause he is supporting her in other more socially acceptable areas. But the girl doesnt like the guy. She like sthe things he buys her and gives her for spreading her legs and opening her mouth and taking his dick and making him orgasm. Its about the way guy feels not the girl. She doesnt want any attachments either with some white skinned rather large man." Nicely put.
Long term relationships with a Thai hooker... Now that is a contradiction in terms!
Giotto, u seem like a nice guy and even after reading your posts and trying to decipher what you said, SA feels that you reading too much into the hooker scene and should just get out there and start living the single life. Be a warrior not a wimp.
SA
Migrant One
08-13-04, 15:46
Love and sex, issues that may be related, maybe not.
I was married for many years, and felt I found true unconditional love. Family life, sex, companionship, everything was great, but circumstances, and people, change and I fell out of love.
While married I mongered. Not a great amount, but I did. I never fell in love with the ladies, never lost control. I wanted sex, they were pretty, and available, and different. Sex life with the wife was good, but sometimes we crave a change.
Before my marriage, and since, I've been involved with both working girls, and non WG's. I have fallen in love, not the heart ache, blind love, but a feeling I get deep inside when I see the lady of my desire. Is it love? (won't open that box) or lust?, either way I enjoyed it. The anticipation of 'can't wait to see you'. The way my breathe would catch when she walks in. The new feelings, and discoveries with her. But I felt I did control the feelings.
But in these loves I have not lost control. Sure I've given gifts, money (sometimes a large amount) but within budget. Am I getting played? yes and no, I know not everything I was told was true, but it was ok because it was within budget and I was in love (or perhaps in the other order).
When the relationships died, I felt remorse (even if I did the ending) but was not desperate, other fish in the sea....
Maybe it wasn't love but whatever it was I enjoyed it. I paid for it, in many ways, but I knew that.
Maybe with an outlook like that I'll never truely fall in love, or perhaps one day I'll fall so heavily my story will be like Steen's but I don't think so at this stage of my life.
I don't begrudge the ladies asking for money, it's the way they provide for themselves, and family. They have a commodity, sex, and they sell it. As with any good salesperson they have a sales pitch, and use it. Eddie Murphy (i think) once said women have half the money in the world, and all the pussy, so it's only a matter of time before they have all the money.
The real barracudas I stay away from, or if hot enough, strictly keep it ST, but the softer pro's, semi pro's I enjoy. I try to make it clear up front that they can try, but I've heard stories from some of the best, but hey give it a shot.
But I do enjoy that feeling, whether or not it's love.
Any way that's my 2 cents if anyone cares.
migrant
The Traveler
08-13-04, 18:42
Giotto
you didn't get what I tried to say, maybe I should have expressed myself more clear.
It sounds that you believe that falling in love necessarily comes with losing your mind and a total lack of control. This is not the case, at least not for me. Falling in love means to have very strong feelings for someone, not switching off brain. I steadily question the things I see and if they give the impression that it is not true love from her side then I will bail out. I didn't say that it won't hurt but I tend to believe it is better for me to finish it, otherwise I would end up like Steen.
Migrant One below said it all and what I got to say would just be a repetition of his post.
JuiceSpike
08-13-04, 22:17
SA,
LOL, "love" is in the air and it stinks for you... C'mon man, I think it has been a good discussion... admit it.
I still don't get why would a hooker in Thailand deserves something more than paying for her services because she is in need (we are all in need: money is relative to how much or how little you have).
Maybe it works like this: "you gave me a great blow job last night so today I will buy you a new car. Thank you"
Serioulsly, I think that many farangs arrive in Thailand for the first time and are completely taken by how good company and fucking these girls are. Then they mix the cash for sex thing with love (or something that resembles this) and forget what is going on. I also think that many guys go there feeling a little lonely or troubled and the Thai pussy is the best answer to their loneliness or problems. Sometimes it is but keep it in perspective because falling into a "hole" of trouble after you just paid to fuck a hole doesn't make much sense...
I always tell guys going there for the first time that they will be hooked for the right and the wrong reasons but they will be hooked. It is how you get hooked that will make a huge difference in the end.
I'm waiting to see when Domino gets a hold of this discussion... Maybe all hell will break loose or he will brake down into tears. We will see. It's a good thing he is fucking in Siberia right now.
juice
It is so pathetic to read about guys who are too ugly, short, small dikked, geeky, socially unskilled, fat, old or just losers who actually think they might find love in Thailand. They can't get it in their own country, what makes them think they can find it here?
They like to fantasize that the Thai bar girls smile is sincere and actually think the girls are listening and care what they have to say.
The key word is fantasy.
The losers can hardly believe a young girl will talk to them, fukk them, smile and take only 1000-1500 baht. Only about $25-$40. It must be true affection or love. Why else would she stay with me?
Only romantic retarded suckers believe.
The truth is 1500 baht is 75 meals at a Bkk food stall. Even more in the countryside. 75 meals at a Mcdonald's back home starts around $150. Can you understand the logic?
Do you dummies realize the avg. thai is poor and the exchange rate of baht for dollar suks from the thai's perspective?
The girls smile because if they didn't they would probably puke or cry at the sight of you.
Poverty and drugs can make a person do desperate things.
I for one capitalize on this reality and love it! The freedom to safely suk and fuk thousands of thai hookers no matter who or what I am for relatively few U.S. dollars is one of the greatest draws of Thailand.
Samus Aran
08-14-04, 00:58
Bill,
SA had to scroll down a bit to see his posts. As you know SA sets the record for the number of posts for a regular member. MAkes SA special. Bill, SA is agreement with you. If SA had some deleting privileges some of these posts would be sent into deep cyber space. Hey, SA isnt advocating or supporting any of this love with a hooker stuff. Not one bit and SA's posts show that. It drives SA up a wall. SAw that new movie yesterday. Alien vs. Predator. Horrible. when are they going to put those 2 monsters to bed?
Oh wait this section is not about movies reviews.
Bill, dont know what tosay about all this love talk. Love and Thailand.... Hhhmmm...
Juice,
Domino would not be happy with all of this love in the air talk. SA has to pull out the tissues when he reads Giottos posts. Dont know whether to wipe the tears from my eyes or the shit in my pants form reading his kind of sappy and heartbreaking posts about Thai humpers.
SA
SA,
I can agree with your white female friend. It is a problem for newcomers to that hobby to pay for sex, and they might try to make the P4P thing tolerable in converting their hooker into a girlfriend.
Don't understand your advice to be a warrior instead of a wimp. If I basically understand how the P4P scene in Thailand works, does that necessarily mean that I am a wimp?
Singapore: I can assure you, you are absolutely wrong reg. this. The same thing happens in Singapore. I even meet Thai hookers there in business dinners.
Migrant One,
Sounds good, quite similiar to my life. Hopefully you will always be able to keep control.
TT,
I believe that falling in love CAN cause loosing your mind and loosing control. I don't believe that this happens NECESSARILY.
But I think there is a risk. May be Migrant One and you are lucky, that this did not happen to you up to now.
Giotto
Giotto,
I think, if I understand you correctly, what you are calling love is often described as "infatuation":
1. A foolish, unreasoning, or extravagant passion or attraction.
or
2. An object of extravagant, short-lived passion.
Definition 1 meets your criteria of "love". It may or may not be foolish, but it is unreasoning. As if the center of the universe shifted and everything rotates about the object of your affection.
Infatuation is not a long lived phenomena. If the individuals concerned are lucky, it can become a deeper, more mature love, but often it decays into heartbreak. And it is not the only path to real love. Sometimes simple association with another person over time leads to love. No thunderbolt, no unreasoned passion, just a growing sense of appreciation that carves it's own space in the heart.
Tatoosh
Tatoosh,
I learned a new word now: infatuation.
I would use that word to describe what I called "falling in love" before. It has nothing to do with love, and I would agree with you that it is not a long lived phenomenon.
I also agree that it CAN change into stronger feelings, but that it not NECESSARILY does.
Giotto
PosterLion
08-16-04, 17:01
The argument is never ending. Can love be found in Thailand? I am glad that this debate has not died and I predict that it never shall. To tell the truth, the question should be: can love be found anywhere?
Ironically, it is obvious that it still exists, otherwise there would not be so many people taking sides on the issue. Love is like a ware in the marketplace, it will be around as long as there are traders.
Only a fool will believe that this question can be settled on this forum. And I am the perfect fool as I believe this question will outlive us all! :)
===
JuiceSpike,
Damage Control? That happened today. I am moving out so as to keep my penis and other body parts in tact, and so that she can find someone else to by her a Condo.
Please do not start a stereotypical campaign against this girl. She possesses more valor than almost anyone I've known. That is absolutely no bullshit, meaning, I believe it to be the truth.
===
JZ,
As always, you are the epitome of logic and control. I believe that you have actually studied psychology or... you have read to many self help books.
Now sir... I know that sounds like a cut and I do apologize, sir. But to ask someone like me where I see myself in ten years is like asking the Grand Canyon where it sees itself in ten years.
"Grand Canyon, Sir. Where do you see yourself in 10 years?"
"Well, a... I don't know. I reckon I'll be a little lower. But really... It isn't up to me. It depends on whether it rains or not... And then there is the question of the wind.
"So sir, should I tell my listeners that the mighty Grand Canyon says his future depends on something as omnipresent as the weather?"
"Well yes sir. I can't think of anything else more powerful to base my existence on."
"Thank you GC. Well folks! You heard it live from WJZ talk radio! It is the weather that directs your future and nothing else! Until tomorrow, thank you and good night!"
poster...
JuiceSpike
08-17-04, 00:55
Poster,
... good luck.
juice
Well, PL, if the Grand Canyon was to envision itself being a little deeper or wider in ten years or so I'd say that's a realistic view of the future, but the point was simply that in order to fulfill desire one usually must first articulate it to some degree. One can place themselves in all kinds of weather, or prepare for certain kinds which seem to be prevalent. After all, weren't you the one who posed the "purpose" question?
And while I'll admit to having studied and read far too much psych stuff in the distant past, I've never read a self-help book in my life :) though I know a couple of people who've written them.
Thai Barmaids and Danish men.
The history is told in the aircraft between Bangkok and Moskow
Danish man Erik. Tell my:
Ok I am not easy meat!
Best Regards Steen
Samus Aran
08-18-04, 18:58
Fellas,
SA is not going to get into this love conversation. U guys know where he stands.
Just got back from Singapore. You got to check this city out. While the scene exists in Singapore, there is not this hand holding relationshipping going on with a white pasty beast like you find in Bangkok. Singapore has class. Seemed like a lot of chinese girls sitting around waiting to get picked up as well as the thai regulars who seemed to be asking the lowest of prices. If you goto Singapore, check out the zoo. They had a beautiful polar bear.
This love conversation is real sad and diheartening. Save it for the Cosmo and Vogue mags.
Samus Aran
I had some time to think about some of the latest posts in the SA section, and I came to the conclusion, that I will not continue to post in this thread.
Many things happened here in this thread, since I read it first a few months ago. Some flame wars, many personal attacks, SA retiring, SA reappearing from the virtual nirvana, and now since a week an interesting discussion about love vs. sex, in the context of GFE and 3F – not a bad development. But one moment, please, are there really changes?
In this thread everybody came to the conclusion, that SA should be praised for hammering 3F into the heads of newcomers to the Thai sex industry. But I think it doesn’t work this way, may be he reaches exactly the opposite of his target.
The first thing I would question is that newbies are really reading this thread. They will normally select Bangkok 2004, Pattaya, Phuket, Koh Samui, but not so sure “SA in Thailand”.
More important is that even if they read the thread they will hardly get the message. Why not? The level of generalization and simplification in this thread is way too high!!
How does it work in real life:
A newcomer comes to Thailand, and he prepared himself to meet “The Thai Hooker”, defined and described in SAs posts, and he of course wants to practice 3F, when he meets one of those “things”.
Then that guy goes to the go-go bars, beer bars, discos, massage parlors, and he meets the Thai sex workers in reality. If he is lucky he selects a piranha first time, and practices 3F, and praises SAs wisdom afterwards. But – what happens if he meets a nice young lady, beautiful, funny, talking English quite well, easy to stay with, more sexy than everything he could ever find in his home country, and she really gives him a good time? Hmm, SA never wrote about those girls. He must come to the conclusion, that this girl cannot be one of those “Thai Hookers”.
Up to today, after years in Thailand, I never met “The Thai Hooker”. All women / sex-workers I met in Thailand were different. I met the type of piranhas SA describes, I met a more softer type of piranha, more starfishes, only letting a man do what he wants and hoping that it is over soon, I met the shy newcomers to the business, without experience, not really prepared for what will happen to them in the first months of their activities, crying sometimes about what they have to do. I met strong girls who learned that giving good service makes a customer come back, and better to have a few good customers than to change men every day. I met girls who went for free because they hoped to get out of the scene and find a boyfriend, or somebody who takes care. I met so many different girls, good and bad ones, honest girls and extreme liars, giving good or bad service, caring about a customer, or treating him as if he does not exist…I met so many different types of girls as you meet in the regular girl world as well. There is no difference between those worlds, especially not in Thailand.
I also met many girls which were complaining about farangs, about us. Men promising to take care, disappearing then, men talking about how much they love a girl, and taking out another one next day. I tried to start a discussion about cause and effect here, but it was not really that successful.
Are we not able to discuss, that WE could be the reason for some of the bad developments in the scene?
Another simplified story:
A man is traveling to Thailand first time, and getting emotionally involved to a Thai sex worker. He starts to dream about having a nice sexy mia noi in Thailand and visiting her sometimes on his vacation- or business trips. Of course he wants her only for himself, not being “used” every day by those other farang monsters he watches in the bars every time he goes there. He then must leave, vacation over, business somewhere else, and he has to keep what he promised before. He discovers that he cannot spend that money for himself any more what he had promised to send to that girl every month, that it costs time to go to the bank to send the money, and after 2 months of not seeing his mia noi the strong feeling is also somehow disappearing. So he decides not to send any money any more.
His mia noi had meanwhile stopped to work in a bar, she had started to learn English, and she must pay for the apartment and the English course every month. Suddenly – no money on the bank – what else will she do than starting to work in a bar again immediately? And she learned a lesson – NEVER TRUST A FARANG.
Do all of you promoters of 3F not understand, that it are those girls which then really start to practice 3F? They find customers, f… customers and forget customers! And if the customer talks nicely – forget it, he will anyway not keep his promises! Forget him, as soon as possible. Do not listen to his nice talking, this are only empty words, meaningless. This is what the girls learn in the first months of working in that scene.
Do you people really think, that ONLY YOU decide which girl goes with you for a night? May be you can decide about the left-overs, the not so beautiful girls, which cannot select their customers so easily. The beautiful ones can! The interesting ones can! The happy girls can! They can go with 10 CUSTOMERS every night, they are 100 times more experienced in selecting the right man for the night than you can ever be, as long as you do not go to those bars every night to pratice the selection process. They decide whether they choose a handsome younger man for that night, because they want to have more fun, and they know, that they probably will NOT get so much money that night, and they decide too, if they want to go with the old ugly fat bad smelling farang with the big money in his wallet! And if they not want to go at all – they simply NOT GO that night, and sleep alone.
Furthermore another phenomenon was never mentioned in this thread.
There is a species of customers which is playing the girls, and their hopes to get out of the scene. This is the worst phenomenon of all. Those men are telling the girls that they are not married (but they are) , that they have no girlfriend (but they have), they are talking about how much they like the girl, and how good it is to stay with her. And if the girl is not working that long, is not completely dead in her heart, she starts to respond. He makes her laugh, joking all day, buying small gifts for her, and she starts to stay with him for free. She starts to hope that the dream prince on the white horse has come to get her out of that shitty life. She knows that she should not believe him, but somehow – HE IS DIFFERENT, for sure, he will do what he says ?!?!?
We all know the end of that story. Very few men keep their promises, many men play the girls, and the girls experience one disappointment after the other. Can we really be surprised then to find piranhas out there, which we have created? I think we can only be surprised, that there are still so many nice girls in that scene, which are willing to trust again and again, which are not dead inside their hearts, and which really give us a good time.
I also read here many times comments about Thai hookers to be the bottom of the Thai society. Guys, you have really no idea what you are talking about, you clearly show a lack of knowledge about Thailand and Buddhism. Of course those hookers, which are not successful in their job, which are not making money, are classified to belong to the lower level of the Thai society, but also for sure not to the bottom. There are others (criminals, alcoholics, even maids, farm helpers etc.) taking this place. If a hooker makes money, and she can show her wealth afterwards, she gains in her social standing in the Thai society, and nobody really cares about how she made that money. Even the Buddhism does not forbid prostitution if it is performed for a higher human target such as taking care for parents, sick people or kids. It’s all about money, and as long as the hookers are successful they are well respected members of the Thai society later.
Everybody knows the stories about the socalled “Swiss villages” in Isaan, with all the houses built and renovated with the money of girls working in Switzerland. Those girls are running the show there now, and they a well respected, too.
This general view within the Thai society is in a changing process in the bigger cities, especially Bangkok (which is not really Thailand), with a more European point of view, within the middle and upper class. But we are talking about a maximum of 20 % of the Thai society here. May be men from that social group would not marry an ex bar girl, if they knew about it.
We should not forget, that most of the Thai women (except those of the mentioned 20 % group) are raised by their mothers to get married to a Thai man one day, educated and prepared to “serve” that man, and they get only a small or no school education which would enable them to find a well paid job. They are always selling their bodies in a way, either selling it for all life to get married, or selling it to a boyfriend taking care of them as long as it lasts, or selling it to Thai men as mia noi, or selling it to tourists in Pattaya for a vacation period, or selling it for a single night or even ST in the sex industry. The main differences between those options are: the length of the sold service period - and the price. Somehow everywhere in the society women are selling their bodies for money, for making their living, and it is really not worth to mention that in the Thai society. It is generally accepted. The dowry system is another money flow system around the Thai woman, sufficiently discussed in other threads.
BTW: all that is not a Thai phenomenon, you can find that in other parts of Asia (and also other parts of the world) as well.
I thought about what happens to SAs thread if nobody opposes to his posts any more, and he is alone with his buddys which anyway do not contribute anything but supporting SAs message. Without our posts, flame wars, discussions this thread would be meaningless – boring 3F posts, minor attacks on farangs walking with Thai women on Sukhumvit or in Emporium – if somebody would read 10 posts he knew the thread, and he would stop reading because he was getting tired about it.
Now many posters praise SA that he changed his writing style!! He now writes a style we can accept, a style which shows a basic understanding of the rules of behavior, a basic education... Guys, is that really worth to mention? Isn’t that a standard condition for all of us, so to say the minimum requirement we have to fulfill as adults if we give public statements?
SAs thread lives because some members oppose and others support, and especially if we oppose we give him and his buddys a forum. SAs contribution to real discussion in that thread is – ZERO, and so is the contribution of his buddys. I furthermore believe that SAs message is too simple and generalized, it misleads newcomers, and does not reach the described targets.
I don’t want to be part of a machinery any longer which gives this message a forum.
=====
Finally some words directly addressed to SA, assuming that he is a real existing person and not a virtual figure.
SA,
When I first read this thread I was really disgusted by your posts, especially by the language you used, but also by many comments you made. You will remember my question about all Thai women being *****s, and you answer to that question, with all the following discussions. Then the dispute around OldThaiHand, your retirement and you returning to the board after a few weeks.
Since then your writing style has changed (though it is already starting to change back to the older style a bit(“…shit in my pants…”)), praised by nearly everybody in the thread, but the message is still unchanged. It basically contains three parts: you are hammering the 3F philosophy into the heads of others, your describe love sick farang men walking on Sukhumvit or inside Emporium with the young Thai GF (or whatever), and as a result of that you are again and again questioning why the hooker scene and the men’s behavior in Thailand is so different from USA or Singapore.
That are your messages. That’s really all.
I can say now for my person, that I got your message, and as long as you cannot add anything new your posts are a bit tiring for me, not interesting, boring. I asked you questions sometimes, others did as well, but normally you do not answer. You repeat your three messages.
Shocking is the simplicity of your messages. Can life or parts of it really be that easy? Can a phenomenon like the success of the Thai sex industry and the behavior of its participants be described in 3 basic messages? No, of course, it cannot.
If then discussions start about disconnection of love and sex, about the reason why so many farang run into the trap of being ripped-off, then you return meaningful messages like “love and Thailand” (as if would be impossible to fall in love in Thailand) etc. etc. . If it comes to feelings, to thoughts about a deeper background – SA is out of the game, immediately. That’s exactly that point where the thread starts to become interesting for me.
SA, why you never give any input into serious discussions? Why you never give comments, if emotions get involved? Are you scared? Scared to talk about your feelings? Unable to express what is going on in your heart? You don’t want to have a heart? Oh, sure, even you have one! Have you been hurt by those girls before? Is that why you now protect yourself with 3F, that you cannot be hurt again?
And then this your question: Why is the scene so different in Thailand, why the men behave so “funny” here? You live here in Thailand, and you don’t have the answer on that question?
The question itself is a confirmation already, that the scene in Thailand is obviously different! It is NOT comparable with the sex scene in USA or Europe, with the cheap street-hookers, expensive call girls and the club- and disco scene. Nobody I know participates in that scene outside Asia, but most of the men I know enjoy the naughty night life in Asia. Why is that? It is easy going, doesn’t give us the feeling that it is this kind of “dirty prostitution” we know from outside Asia, many girls treat us like friends first, the girls have fun, too, it is a different kind of agreement, of contract which is done here between men and women in that business. And look at the socialization process of the Thai woman I described above. That’s why the Thai model is so extremely successful, that’s why so many men come here. For me it is easy to understand, if I only go to the specific areas, and look around. I would never raise such a question. That’s why I for sure would practice the 3F philosophy outside Asia, if I ever got involved in something there, but I always try to avoid 3F in Thailand.
You once gave me the recommendation to move on, because you thought I am too strongly connected to the Bangkok sex-worker scene. Did you somehow move on in all this months? Did you change a single detail of your opinion? Are you taking any post, any reply to your posts seriously, agree on a different opinion and move somehow forward in your personal development? I don’t think so, I cannot see it.
You once complained about all the tissues you need, when you read my posts. Be careful, SA, that you do not wake up one day, and you realize that all your “easy” picture of Thailand and Thai women (sex workers or regulars) is wrong, and you have missed something, what you could have enjoyed for years. Not only that simple 3F sex thing what you obviously prefer, suddenly you could realize that you have missed your chances to have real experiences with humans, whatever the result could be then: exciting, touching, hurting … but may be you missed the life! And you cannot roll back anything, you will not get back a single minute of the time you lost. Then – you might need much more tissues for your tears.
=======
That was my last post in this thread. Thanks to everybody who took the time to seriously reply to my posts in the past months.
Giotto
Carpenoctum
08-19-04, 06:11
Giotto,
I found myself standing and applauding at your views, and yet at the same time, I found myself giving you the finger for other points of view. Either way, I have respect for you, sir.
Carpe
Samus Aran
08-19-04, 10:25
Giotto,
Nice commentary. Get a sense of humor while you in retirement.
Samus Aran
Migrant One
08-19-04, 14:25
Giotto,
Quite a post!
My thoughts for what its worth.
SA's 3F is fine for guys (ladys too) but we gotta play fair. I've played with the sharks, and the dolphins.
I've paid ladys that we both know we will never see each other again, and had incredible sex. I've also taken a liking to ladies and kept them with me for days/a week.
In all cases I was honest, when married I'd say so, when not I'd also say so and that I wasn't looking for a wife, not interested in love, only sex, fun, and sure, passion.
I believe there are many hardcore ladies in the profession that wouldn't know love under any circumstances, but I also believe that most of the ladies still desire, and are looking for love.
Think how we appear to them, perhaps bigger and funny looking compared to who they grew up with, and their role models (except me, of course). But we have money to obviously spare, vacations, restaurants, nice clothes, homes and from their point of view, no worries.
For many our worries are, can we pay for this new set of clubs, or ouch the house payment this month is tight, or the boat I want will take a couple more months.
For them it very well could be, where am I going to find the $'s for food today. The family is counting on me.
I think many of these ladies can, and do, fall in 'love' with us.
What is the point of my jive? I guess treat the ladies honestly and have a great time. We have some money for fun, they will give fun for money, keep it on that level.
One last statement and I'm off to the salt mines, I'm not down on love, just careful. I would love to fall in deep love, as long as my object feels the same way. I probably never will because I'm careful of my feelings, but who knows. It could be a Issan girl from Nana, but probably not.
migrant (tired of typing)
JuiceSpike
08-19-04, 15:14
Giotto,
You are a man of contradictions but you are a happy customer. You understand bar girls (pretty & ugly ones) better than most in here or maybe you think you do. It doesn't matter, it is your money that buys sex and relationships. Just because some guys prefer to find, fuck and move on or forget it means we are assholes or lack cultural understnading.
Not long ago you wrote:
"All,
I do not want to forget the most important recommendation:
- DO NOT GET EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED WITH A BAR GIRL. IT WILL NOT WORK IN 99.999% OF ALL CASES
- DISTINGUISH BETWEEN SEX AND LOVE, AND BETWEEN FALLING-IN-LOVE AND LOVE
- ENJOY THE TIME YOU HAVE, BUT DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY KIND OF FUTURE WITH THAT GIRL"
To each his own.
juice
PosterLion
08-19-04, 17:25
JZ,
You are such a good bastard! :) I really liked this last sentence as well!
"I've never read a self-help book in my life though I know a couple of people who've written them."
I figured as much. :)
Well my man, I must say that your thoughts on articulation and the relevancy of doing so so that one might meet their true desire face to face is the basis of truth.
I did not mean to appear to be running for a canyon. I just know myself quite well and well... I probably do make a dash for the canyon more often than not and I also figure you know that already. :)
My point about the weather (and I think you realize this also), is that desire is like the wind and the rain.
And if that is true, how can our attempts at obtaining our desires be any different?
I have found a satisfactory approach in being happy with the humidity and the wind velocity. But on the other hand, I have also articulated that it might be nice from time to time if there weren't so many thunderstorms. But what can be done about it? The elements are eternity and we are just a mere fragment of their lives.
poster. :)
PosterLion
08-19-04, 18:15
Giotto,
Your last post is so damn long I can't finish it, although I swear on my honor... I will.
But it came to a point where I wanted to comment before I finished your spiel.
I read all this 3F-never-fall-in-love-with-a-bar-girl-crap before I ever met my first bar girl and I agree with you that every one of them is a human being. Personally, I've never met one that tried to wrong me and I think I loved them all in a unique and special way.
It is probably because I looked at them as human beings from the get-go.
Now I have had girls ask for my number and my email and so forth and I have had some of them call me or email me and ask me to send them money. I've never sent a bar girl money. I've merely paid for them for the service rendered and nothing more. I do not say this to prove anything about my manhood or what not, it's just a fact.
I was once a newcomer to Thailand and as I have said I had read all these never-fall-in-love-posts. But on my first encounter I found it difficult not to feel something, love or not, it was love-like. I think it was mostly a deep felt sympathy for the girl and a certain sense of guilt for having a much easier life. I believe this is merely a normal feeling. I remember how I wanted to help the girl obtain something better than what she had and I remember thinking to myself how impossible it would be to truly help her in that way, except of course for the payment for services rendered. It is actually possible to be a conscientious business man.
I'm not a complete asshole. I just can't sit still for too long. I mean to say that I am not the type of man that makes a good husband. I do have a savior quality yes, but that is just a wham-bam-thank-you-Mam kind of quality, much like the quickening of the Holy Spirit when it is recognized by your soul.
I can look her in the face, I can kiss her on the cheek, I can give her her money, but then we are done. I try to be a complete gentleman and make it as easy as possible for her to sell her body to me without losing face. I forgive her her sins without even considereing her actions to be sin, much as I hope she will forgive me my sins as if there were no sin.
That my friend is the best I can do because I am not a good man for any woman long term. I have tried it many times and as almost all of you know, I am trying it with my TG at this moment. And as you all also know, I have all but admitted defeat.
So what? I am just a charity case. I am not good for one girl for the long term, but that is okay, there are many girls that need to be saved in the near term, one short time after another.
And I swear on my honor... I WILL TRY TO SAVE THEM ALL!
poster...
PosterLion
08-19-04, 19:25
Dear Mr. G,
Just got to this part:
If a hooker makes money, and she can show her wealth afterwards, she gains in her social standing in the Thai society, and nobody really cares about how she made that money. Even the Buddhism does not forbid prostitution if it is performed for a higher human target such as taking care for parents, sick people or kids. It’s all about money, and as long as the hookers are successful they are well respected members of the Thai society later.
You are correct! Prostitution is not looked down on in Thai society if you are successful at it. My GF was just commenting on how her sister (the one mentioned in a previous post) was so respected because she has a car and a fancy apartment and because she has the ability to get what she wants. Then my GF made the comment that no one cares how she got it, it only matters that she was able to get it.
In effect this must make me a Buddhist and I should be garnering MUCHO respect from the people of this world because i got what I wanted and I got it my way! :)
Thankfully all those freakin' famous (or soon to be famous) American football players like drugs. They paid me for them and I in turn got a college education and became a professional computer programmer cum not so good poet that is still trying to learn about line breaks and visualizing where I see myself in 10 years. :)
CHING CHING!
poster...
PosterLion
08-19-04, 19:57
Mr G,
One last thought.
You said this in your 100-year-post (it took that long to read it),
"SA's thread lives because some members oppose and others support, and especially if we oppose we give him and his buddy's a forum"
You are exactly correct. I recommend that you continue to post here and keep this thread alive. Let SA and company have the glory. Let them feel they are the reason for this thread, it's okay.
Just trust me on this one, it is people like you that make this thread what it is. I simply acknowledge that so that you no longer need too. Keep up the fight because it is "the good fight" and those that are "good" will reckognize it as so.
Do not worry about deception, love never does, why should we?
poster...
I've got a slightly different take than PL's.
Giotto, since you started posting in this thread precisely to have it out with SA and that hasn't happened to your satisfaction, it makes perfect sense to stop interacting here. Certainly, holding out hope that SA will "change" is hardly worth bothering with -- he's busy doing the prophet in the wilderness thing and doesn't much care if you think he needs a bath as it's simply not the issue on which he's focusing.
Naturally, that doesn't mean exactly the same issues you've been bringing up here can't and shouldn't appear elsewhere -- such as in the "Thai Women" thread, which is where they were usually discussed before SA was banished to this ghetto for not playing well with others. All you need do is post there.
(And personally, I don't get the problem with noting SA's been a better player -- positive reinforcement has been shown to be more effective than negative.)
There will always be divergent opinions and perspectives in a forum such as this, and it's the clash of those that can truly inform folks, as those involved in debate are compelled to provide examples and facts to justify their take on things, that allows thinking readers more on which to chew. Others become forced to examine their own sensibilities as opposed to passively reading a standard take on things.
But, really, why even worry about whether this thread lives or dies? SA's basically stuck here, so it is what it is. If you don't like a particular store, there are plenty of others to visit as opposed to worrying about whether that one should be redecorated or torn down.
G - in response to your (mistaken) statement about SA - the reason he keeps hammering (the nail that sticks up gets hammered down) is because too soon MOST of us start thinking with the SMALL head and FORGET the message (3F forever - or at least FER SURE with BG's)
The Traveler
08-21-04, 05:23
Giotto
good post, even though I do not agree 100%, I still find myself in 98% of what you say.
You asked why SA never get involved in "real" discussions and avoids to answer questions. I myself have raised and asked him many questions and can confirm that he avoided to answer all of them. The reason why he acts like that is very simple, HE DOESN'T HAVE THE ANSWERS. He lives there, does the scene his way but seems to know little of the "real" Thais and Thailand.. Doesn't mean that he is an asshole or stupid, maybe ignorant but that's his prob. As OldThaiHand said, most people who believe to know it all, live in their bubbles knowing shit about the real world. He has a certain picture of Thailand and the Thais, especially sex-workers. Nothing wrong with it, again his prob. Just wonder where his wisdom comes from. Only prob I see is, that he tries to sell his (very limited) view as the ultimate wisdom.
You also warn him that he might "wake up" one day. I guess he now knows that he already missed a lot. Do you remember how excited he was doing kinky stuff with his white trash ? LOL, if he would have done the scene the way many of us do, he could have already done that very same kinky stuff a thousand times before. But he prefers to get the "bad seeds out as fast as possible". His loss, not mine.
The Traveler
08-21-04, 05:41
SA
since you just have been to Singapore I would like to know where you saw or even picked those chinese ladies you refer to. I will be in Singapore next month and looking for some variety other than Thai. I am familiar with OT (Orchard Tower) and the most common places, Geylang is not to my taste but seems to be perfect for you. Haven't seen any post from you in the Singapore section but hope you are able to provide anything valuable besides your steady (and boring) repetition of the 3F. Or do you have to pass on that as well ?
Samus Aran
08-21-04, 15:37
Traveler,
Anywhere along Orchard rd infront of the Meritus MAndarin or Hilton will have tons of chinese girls sitting on these little park benches ready for pick up. SA didnt bother. But they were sitting there. Orchard Towers seems to be the place but once again SA didnt bother. Most of the girls are Thai. So again SA didnt bother. Singapore is just a nice place to sit outside and just watch the scene pass by. Singapore has class and style. Dont see too many scumbags walking a hooker on the street. It just isnt there. So, the street scene is clean and enjoyable. At nite, it is limited to the area around Orhard Hotel. Stayed at the Royal Plaza Hotel on Scotts rd which is prime location to everything. However, it isnt the kind of place that rents rooms by the hour.
By the way, take some time out and visit the zoo!
Hey travelr, easy on the knock downs of SA. Be nice. SA's message is important and should have no reflection on his opinion about the thais or his knowledge of Thailand. Once again, SA is talking the sex scene and bar girls. They are to be handled with the minimum of personal contact other than getting your rocks off. SA also advocates playing fair and being nice to these humpers.
Always play the game!
SA
JuiceSpike
08-21-04, 19:21
Giotto,
Thanks for the PM. I will respond to your PM in her because it belongs in this thread.
You wrote:
"there is no contradiction between my last post in the SA thread and that one you mention in your reply."
I think you do contradict yourself, just my opinion.
You wrote:
"I would warn everybody to get emotionally involved with sex workers in Thailand. I would recommend to distiniguish between sex and love, and to check out upcoming emotions, if you are really able to do that."
Exactly. I don't understand why would anybody consider having a love relationship with a hooker. This has nothing to do with a moral thing but more to do with the fact that these women are damaged and used too much for my liking. Besides, aside from good sex I have nothing in common with a hooker. Just my preference.
You wrote:
"But - I realize that emotions are involved in sexual experiences. And I doubt that sex can be satisfactory if it is not involved."
I don't know what kind of emotions you are talking about. When I fuck a hooker, a stranger, I feel nothing in terms of love and they don't either for sure. I do feel horny and enjoy her body but I don't have any emotional attachment to her because I don't know her. My cock is not my bridge to emotions. Maybe this is different for you.
You wrote:
"I recommend to everybody to have a realistic view about what is happening to a person if he gets into contact with Thai sex workers, and to honestly deal with sex, emotions - and also honestly deal with the girls involved. Many of them are worth it. "
Many of them worth it? I disagree. There are so many other women that don't fuck for money I would consider worth my interest for a longer relationship. There are many ways to relate to a woman (regular type) and even seduce a woman without having to pay her.
You wrote:
"3F is not an alternative. If you are able to actively live that philosophy with ALL girls (not only the piranhas) you are dead already, but you haven't realized it. Nobody (in my opinon) can switch emotions on and off."
In the context of paying for sex to a hooker in Thailand I think 3 Fs makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe not to you but that's OK. I'm not looking for love when I fuck a hooker, I guess some people are but not me.
I'm still able to have good friendship and sex realtionships wiht regular women. I think for you to assume I'm dead because I practice 3Fs with hookers it's just silly.
You don't need to convince me that what you do with your life its OK. Maybe you need to convince yourself not others.
juice
JuiceSpike.
A PM is a PM. And you are an asshole, whatever you write, if you publish it. No limits, man, eh??? May be the spelling is incorrect (my dictionary doesn't know that word somehow), but I mean that hole, where that brown bad smelling stuff is coming out, which you are made of.
Jackson, please put me into the hall of shame, before I have to coexist with people like JuiceSpike in this forum. Please. I promise, I will be proud to be there.
All,
Sorry that I broke my word not to publish in this thread any more. But that's too much.
Giotto
JuiceSpike
08-21-04, 23:03
Giotto,
Wow.... First, your PM was unsolicited and you sent me nothing personal or that you have not written in here already a few times over. Second, I do mind people trying to carry over their discussion into my PRIVATE message box especially when I don't solicit it. Third, you are the asshole for sending me your bullshit spam.
Yeah, you belong to the hall of shame, you are one sorry ass guy.
juice
JuiceSpike,
You published a PM I sent to you. Do you really think that this is OK?
Giotto
JuiceSpike
08-21-04, 23:37
Giotto,
I make the rules for my PM box. In your case, yeah it is OK.
:D
juice
Samus Aran
08-22-04, 00:37
Juice,
SA got similar PM stuff from Giotto. No need to re post it. SA don't get it. What G posts in the general forum isa much different post in the PM section. Is he f&*^ing with SA's mind? Dont understand where he feels its ok to flame SA and then in the next stroke of the keyboard be all buddy buddy. Should SA just ignore his ramblings? SA been stoked in here so many times but now SA sees that there are many posters in here that make SA look like a choir boy!
Anyways, it poured like a mother last nite. Went to some Tibetan meditation get together. It was kind of cool other than the fact that SA's long legs fell asleep from sitting in the floor cross legged for 2 hours! SA has a nice place fo any of you work out types who would like a nice gym to use and a swimming pool. Interested parties let SA know. Keep in shape for your real "exercising."
SA
S.A.,
The same pitiful Chester pulling the same old shiit. "I promise not to post again" The same MO as his other make believe self. Same contradictions, same lies, flip flop flip flop. I can't wait until the law catches up with it. Then and only then will we witness its last post.
Samus Aran
08-24-04, 02:13
Fellas:
Saw an interesting site yesterday. Was down at Subways near Nana when SA saw this elderly gent with a walker and oxygen tank trying to meander his way along the street. SA gives this man credit. IT appeared that he had two thai, very young, sexy and beautiful and not in hospital -gown"nurses" helping him along. Every step of the way they supported him. Then a few yards further up there was a man in a similar predicament. Walking with a cane and a noticable limp. He was being supported by only one not so attractive, older, heavy set "nurse." Once in a while they "nurse" offered to help him. Most of the time she ignored him. He appeared upset and confused as he he saw the other guy with a bevy of thai "nurses.". But he kept going along checking out the street scene on Sukumvit and choking on the exhaust.
Why was the second guy confused and upset? SA figured it out. The first guy obviously had a better insurance plan that allowed for him to have 2 round the clock sexy "nurses." So fellas, if you think of dying in Thailand in the arms and legs of these "nurses" make sure you have that Gold Plan up to date on your Blue Cross/ Blue Shield policy.
SA
Jeez, are we really posting and talking about people's PMs now?
And, Bill, despite your inferences, those are very clearly two distinct and separate people.
Samus Aran,
You are correct, I sent a PM to you, as I sent a PM to everybody who commented on my long post. But – it was NOT really similar to that what JuiceSpike published here, I remember me writing specifically about the issues you raised in your reply to my post in your thread.
Anyway, if you don’t want to reply to my PM – fine with me. Hopefully we can end all this now on a level of a common understanding, that my retirement makes sense and does not really hurt anybody.
I don’t really get your point, that my PMs are different from what I post in the forum. JuiceSpike published one of my PMs, so you can easily check that I was continuing the discussion, based on the same facts and opinions I have always posted in your thread. May be you should re-read that.
It was never my intention to “flame” you, whatever that means. I always tried to argue based on facts and without personal attacks. If I crossed the line somewhere – please take my apologies for that.
Bill,
If you see contradictions in my posts I also recommend you to read them again. For me there is no contradiction in my basic statements: to accept those sex workers in Thailand as women, to respect them, to realize that emotions are involved in any kind of sexual relationship, even if it only lasts 2 hours, and also to warn not to get emotionally involved with the bar girls. It is one thing to deal with emotions, but another thing to develop a serious long term relationship with those girls. Many statistics and stories prove, that those attempts fail in most of all cases.
Lies? That’s a strong word, my friend. I am usually not telling lies, and I don’t know to which part of my post you refer to. But I am sure, that you know what you write, because history has shown, that you contribute a lot information to this forum, and everybody takes your writings seriously.
A law regulating posts on anonymous handles in internet forums? Please, don’t make me laugh!
BTW: I cannot remember your post criticizing the resurrection of SA, after he announced his retirement some weeks ago. Did I miss something? Don’t you think we should let the legislators know, that a law regulating the “SA in Thailand” thread is valid only for a specific group of people, but not for others? That must explicitly be mentioned, otherwise it will not work the way you want it to work…
PM receivers,
I sent a PM to everybody who replied to my long (and planned last) post in the SA thread. I wanted to finalize the open discussions, and my decision not to post in this section any more only allowed this communication channel.
If somebody feels offended by receiving a “unsolicited” PM please delete it and accept my apologies
PM senders,
I received a huge number of PMs regarding my post. Thanks to everybody who wrote to me, no matter whether you agreed with me about the post, or you criticized it. I appreciate all your PMs, “unsolicited” or not.
Giotto
Samas: I see you are busy with the split personalities and those Rip van Winkles who have recently discovered Private Dancer.
I am enjoying some of the contestants at the Olympics. The Romanians are nice and they like doggy.
Why do Greeks grow mustaches?
To look like their mothers:)
Some of these babes have serious amounts of facial hair. You should see their pussies. Indiana Jones would find it hard to machette his way through the undergrowth.
Many here think I am Odysseus returned, Calypso and the Sirens well banged. I am in my element at Mount Olympus, a god among demi gods. Now to find Penelopy:(;)
It is good to see well honed and toned bodies like my own perfect body. It sure makes a change from the tubbies who pepper Pattaya and your thread with their presence.
Joe zop,
"Jeez, are we really posting and talking about people's PMs now?"
So we can talk about Po-eMs but not about Pe-eMs?
Domino,
You won yourself a gold medal: You are the first American who writes 'van' in a name in all small caps.
Well done!
Terry Terrier
08-24-04, 21:54
Domino
Glad to hear that you are enjoying your jollies.
Please feel free to continue them indefinitely.
This section has been almost civilised for the last few weeks, apart from the occasional half-hearted interventions from your deputies.
In other words: "Fuck Off". Meant in the politest possible way, of course.
PosterLion
08-24-04, 22:02
A NICE WINE (ER, I MEAN WHINE)
I was thinking about a nice Chardonnay until I came across these whiney posts. Suddenly, I lost my innate alcoholic drinking ability and made myself a coffee instead. Some of these posts are so sobering that they killed my perfect drunk! (I hope I spelt this French word (Chardonnay) correctly. If not, then please accept my apology (especially if you are French) and pardon me as I am just an ignorant boy from Oklahoma.
Okay... so I lied, I didn’t make a coffee, but poured a Singha instead. Come on people! It’s really quite impossible to drink a Chardonnay while reading these posts because the sophistication level of these posts simply cannot match that of my preferred vino. Hence, I poured myself a beer so that I could stomach this crap. I think I like this forum because it does in fact remind me of my beloved motherland, Oklahoma. Everyone talks real loud and for the most part doesn’t get anything said. It’s the kind of environment that would make a born tee-total-er pick up a bottle again. Damn... As a matter of fact, it’s just like Oklahoma. Oh yeah, I believe I’ve already said that.
The other day I was asked by someone (that reminded me of a gentleman) why I post on this board. I scratched my head and decided that the only reason possible must be my arrogance. Well... Actually... I have reconsidered. What it truly and plainly is is plain ‘ole vanilla vanity. Yep, that’s it, VANITY!
But you know what? That’s okay. And as for me, it’s completely expected because now we have people whining because (heaven forbid) they got themselves a private message. It’s almost as if they associate a private message with a private dancer and feel the need to run away from it as quickly as possible, lest they get some sort of emotional attachment with the thing. Jeesh! This is most obviously a 3F forum.
“Hey Hank.”
“Yeah?”
“Did ya find her and fuck her and forget her last night?”
“Well Duuuuuhhhh. Course I did. After she guided it in for me, cause after all ya know, them lil pussies are hard to find, I had myself a good cum and then I kicked her out the door right after I chewed my friggin’ arm off.”
“Ah, so it was a good night eh?”
“Eh mate.”
“Well coyote boy, I gotta go. I got a hooker I wanna meet and she makes me like real emotional and stuff so I am gonna go check her up and down and in and out.”
“Boy! Don’t you go and fall in love with a hooker man! It could ruin you.”
“Not to worry mate. I ain’t talking ‘bout love. I was just talkin’ bout them emotions ya know.”
“Oh yeah, I know! Why the hell ya think I chewed my damn arm off?”
“Well I was wonderin’ bout that but I still can’t figure it. Why did ya chew it off anyway.”
“Well she started to talk a bit serious and stuff and I just had to get away.”
“Uh huh. I see. Well you be careful tonight and be sure and save the arm you’ve got left.”
“Okay Ed. You too! And don’t get any on ya.”
“Don’t worry Hank. I always get a little if not plenty.”
===
Poster out...
The Traveler
08-24-04, 23:32
SA
I got no prob with your message, especially since your wording is much more civilized. But I do not find your message as important as you do, since I deeply believe in "to each his own" and I have no prob if a customer walks "hand in hand" with a thai ho. It doesn't harm me in any way, so why should I care, none of my business.
Anyway, you seem to be full of prejudices. Every Farang who is walking hand in hand with a thai girl must be a tourist accompanied by a hooker. In your world it seems to be impossible that he lives in Thailand and that the girl is his GF or even wife.
You often also gave the impression that you have a very limited view on things, avoiding straight answers to straight questions, ignoring them. In my opinion you seem to have a mostly western approach on many issues, not understanding or ignoring that Asians see many issues from a different perspective. Nevertheless, as long as you are happy with it, it should be fine and if you miss something it will be your loss, not mine.
So all in all, I do not care much about what you say. I see that the 3F might help newbies to prevent being fooled.
That's it. A bit common sense would do the same.
I also practice the 3Fs quite often, otherwise I would get stuck to one girl. I like variety so 3F is the way. But I do not have a prob with taking the same girl more than once if her attitude and performance was great. It's always nice to have a guarantee and knowing that the upcoming night will be satisfying. BTW, I like to have nice company and prefer to go eat with some friends or cute girls rather than eating alone. Does it make me a sucker because I spent a few extra baht and go eat with a thai ho ?
I know that you hyperbolize most of the time. If you do not like to walk hand in hand or go eat with a ho, ok, don't do it. But why call everybody who prefers some GFE a sucker ? I guess most guys take that long way to Thailand just because of that. As long as they keep their senses together, being aware of scams and just pay as much as they think it was worth it, everything is fine. Overpaying is relative. So if someone likes to buy presents for his rented GF, making her happy and in exchange she gives him a good time, why not, fair deal.
Also do not forget that you HAVE to do the scene in a different way than a tourist. You live there and if a girl sticks to you it might be a lot of hassle to get rid of her. All tourists have to leave sooner or later and that will end any relationship without any hassle. You only have to step out and take a 5min ride to get a girl for a cheap bonk. Tourists have to fly around half of the globe and therefore want to celebrate their holidays, making the most out of it, whatever that means. So take a step back and try to see it through their eyes.
Cool if you want to warn newbies or guys who start to think with little Willy as soon as they see a cute girl who literally fuck their brains out. But do not generalize, not everybody has to prefer your way. Different people, different likings and dislikes.
At least thanks for the hint regarding Singapore. I know that many girls at OT are Thais. I have met many girls there which I bonked in Thailand before. BTW, that was the first time you answered one of my questions. Thanks
GAD guys - what is this SSDD? Same shit, different day??
NONE of US can stand a bit of FLAMING messages? ROFLMAO
SA needs to OCCASSIONALLY remind us 3F is "the way"
PL - still don't understand why he chewed his arm off, though
(I might be dense)
LOL, Freeler, well said. However, at least the Po-eM discussion was in reaction to something posted in the forum. I still find the posting of PMs to be a breach of etiquette, same as posting someone's email messages.
JuiceSpike
08-25-04, 05:29
Poster,
You must be from Oklahoma, loud and brave with a beer in your hand typing what you can... Ah, what a few beers can do to the bitter taste of a writer. Cheers to Oklahoma! I salute your alcohol.
Domino,
The olympians? What's next? Welcome back to split-ville. Humor is back.
Samus,
I was going to ignore the rambling preacher's PM but, you know, he was preaching to the wrong choir... Now he's all pissed off... Still, your thread is the most interesting one and hope it stays that way.
Are you supposed to fall asleep during yoga?
juice
Joe Zop,
To me, anyone can handle their mail as they please.
I posted one or two PMs myself, which helped - no more PMs from those folks.
But I also remember keeping your name a secret when you accidently sent it to me:).
I'm sure I did the right thing on all counts and I see the legitimacy in Juice's action.
Juice,
PosterOkie?
Poster,
:D!
JuiceSpike
08-25-04, 17:17
Joe,
I know you are one of the most well behaved persons in here and hopefully you will understand that I cannot be a gentleman all the time... You know, I'm not perfect but I mean well.
Freeler,
Maybe... :D
juice
Like all you guys, I simply have my opinions and state them -- everyone's certainly free to take or disregard them as they see fit, since I'm sure as heck not Jackson (nor do I make the "close personal friend" claim!) I know you two are both good guys, and I just hope to see the forum continue to be useful and productive for all.
But if I prefer not to get PMs from someone I generally just tell them so and it's quite rare that doesn't do the trick.
Terry Terrier
08-25-04, 23:23
Juice Spike wrote:
"...humor is back."
Nobody in this forum has a problem with good-natured humour.....
Samus Aran
08-26-04, 00:16
Fellas,
Seems my latest post is late coming forward. MAybe it got last in approval waiting list. ANyways, SA will tell it again.
Several days ago SA sees this poor white guy on a walker and oxygen making his way up Sukumvit. Helping him were 3 beautiful, large breasted, sexily dressed thai "nurses." They were lending him a hand. Keeping him upright and carrying his belongings for him. It was a beautiful site. Funny, a few yards behind, another man in the same physical condition was meandering up Sukumvit. He also had a "nurse" but she was chubby, overwight, dressed for shit, and basically ignored the poor guys needs. She laughed as he stumbled several times on the uneven pavement. And the poor fella was carrying his own bag! So SA was trying to figure out what the difference was between these two situations. Then it hit SA! Insurance!
Guys, if you coming to Thailand to die between the arms and legs of a Thai "nurse", make sure you have a real good insurance policy! Dont settle for the basic plan from Blue Cross, upgrade to that Gold Policy and you can have wonderful and beautiful "nurses" to administer to your wounds 24/7. Dont be caught with a bad insurance plan. Be like the first guy and carry better insurance.
SA
Terry Terrier
08-26-04, 21:23
Just noticed this from Domino:
"Samas: I see you are busy with the split personalities...."
For newbies and occasional users of this section, Domino used to post under the name of 'Skinless', and pretended to be a newbie under his new name (complete with bizarre 'ham' Italian writing style). That was until a combination of his inability to control his outbursts, and the vigilance of board members, gave away his real ID.
I'm with Stupid
08-28-04, 01:50
Samus Aran,
I've been reading the board for about 6 months and last night it dawned on me that your handle was very familiar. No disrespect, but is it just coincidence that your name is the same as the girl from Metroid? Or is there a reason you chose her name as yours? Simply curious.
Samus Aran
08-30-04, 21:55
Hey Stupid,
Very good observation. The reason for SA is that someone has to patrol the Thailand section making sure none of these guys come to Thailand and fall in love with a hooker. SA takes the tough stance that a hooker is for screwing and nothing else. They arent for casula dining, photographing, taking on trips, etc... If you have read these boards carefully, you will see that there is a party of posters who feel that loving and supporting a Thai humper as a "girlfriend" is the way to behave in Thailand. SA is here to "eliminte" that thought, a sort of "bounty hunter" if you will. Since SA is one bad ass game character with a multitude of weapons and moves to eradicate pests and weaklings, the name fits for the purpose of this mission. A Metroid game based in Bangkok would be great! A multitutde of missions based on wiping out the love sick farang enemy in different scenerios would be of utmost fun.
By the way since we on names, how much thinking did you put into the name "I'm With Stupid?"
SA
JuiceSpike
08-30-04, 23:10
SA,
A big LOL.
I'm with Stupid
08-31-04, 01:00
LOL. How much thought? Absolutly none. Didn't think it important enough to waste thought on. Besides, it takes away pining for TG's time :)
And thanks for answering my question. Knowing that you think of yourself as a female character in a video game has cleared up any misconceptions I may have had about you. Though I'm still considering the third-person thing :).
On a VG note. Ever play Waverace? Kick-ass game.
Terry Terrier
08-31-04, 22:32
Terry Terrier (TT) is of the view that most people who take the time and trouble to seek out and read these types of message boards develop a mental block when they get to the SA section.
TT also knows that it is impossible for experienced P4P users to to engage themselves in GFE encounters with prostitutes and walk away when they have had their fill.
TT also knows that that when he witnesses a falang-Thai girl relationship in the street he can analyse and sum it up immediately after one quick glance.
But what really bemuses TT is the fact that most male farangs who come to Thailand to pay for a personal fantasy (as part of their tourist holiday) can then post on a message board which caters for men who seek the services of prostitutes.
How very bizarre!
Since everyone is reffering to themselves in the third person....
Hey TT, 1ball liked your post.
I normally stay away from this thread as most of it is drivel, but I feel I have to chime in once in a while.
For someone who has never left Ohio, 3F is probably the only way to go, though I think a little self control is not that difficult, and a little GFE is OK. For some of us, who have traveled, who have a brain, who are able to see WGs for what they are, 3F is stupid.
So for those of you who have never experienced Asia, and the delights of the LBFM, 3 F or a little bit of GFE, it doesn’t matter, as long as you let it go when you get into your taxi, as you head out for the airport. Get in, tell the driver to step on it, don’t look back, don’t get an email address, don’t give an email address, just savor, remember, and enjoy the memories.
But there are some of us who get over to LOS or Indonesia, or the PI, or Vietnam, on a regular basis, and having a few in your quiver is very nice. You land in BKK, you are tired, you have already contacted a girl you like, she is waiting for you at your hotel, or at the airport, you get together, have a nice time, wake up together, have Bfast, etc.
If you are enjoying her company, and there are a lot of girls who speak English fairly well, who CAN carry on a conversation, and use a knife and fork at the same time, then have dinner with her. I have eaten diner alone, and I have eaten dinner with a TG. Believe me, diner across from a pretty face is better, especially if you have just fucked her, and you are going to fuck her again in a hour or so. Same thing goes for the islands. You want to take a girl with you, take a girl with you, you are guaranteed a cute warm body, it won’t cost you much more than if you were to pick up someone there, and from what I have read of the Samui board, it is slim pickings there. Just don’t go off with the first TG you meet, if it is your first time there.
On the subject of guys walking down the street with a TG on their arm, who are we to judge? We all will be 60 – 65 years old one day, and when I am, if I decide to walk down the street with a TG on my arm, and somebody makes a snide comment, I think my reply will be: “Go fuck yourself, you’ll be old too one day. Where will you be when you’re 65? Having a good time, enjoying your retirement, or still working?”.
To close on this subject, do whatever you want, do whatever feels good, I met a fellow WSGer who was in LOS for the first time, and spent 90% of his trip with one girl, the first girl he picked up. He had a great vacation, he is home now, and he has moved on to greener pastures. So have a good time, BUT LET IT GO WHEN YOU LEAVE, AND NEVER, NEVER, NEVER SEND HER ANY MONEY, EVER.
NEVER.!!!
NEVER, EVER, EVER.
Scotty Monger
09-01-04, 03:33
1Ball,
Excellent common sense post, and rather unusual for this thread. I suppose it is human nature for those who are "experienced" to think their's is the ONLY correct way of doing something. This entire thread is dedicated to this concept, is it not? Samus's cause is perhaps well intentioned, & can potentially save the novice punter from getting in over his head. But, I see no need for the 3F method to be expoused as an universal principle for the monger populace as a whole.
How a punter spends his time with TG's during his trip, is his own business. He should do as he pleases, and enjoy himself. I myself have had everything from 15 minute BJ's to 2-3 day LT's. NONE of these providers obtained any of my personal information, nor any sucker money afterwards. What is important is that once the TG leaves, regardless of how long you were together, you must move on without falling prey to the emotional tricks & traps some of these girls may attempt to play on you. Don't fall in love & don't send them money, period.
For the retired dudes who strut down the streets with their young TG's on their arm, I have only one thing to say: FLAUNT IT BABY, FLAUNT IT! And if you get some ugly looks, Fuck em. It sure beats sittin at home watching the grass grow. Just make sure that you remember WHY she is being so good to you, its all about the baht.
Luego
Mmm.... Now I have to chime in.
I agree with the principal of not sending a working chick money. I think it is doomed to fail, although have known two men that are happy with their 'ex' working wives.
There are numerous other people, like myself, who have at one point in their mongering lifetime have been sucked in to 'helping' someone for one reason or another.
I succumbed to the foolish pressure just this year. Me. After 13 years of travel, speaking the Thai language, having had TWO regular girls and countless bar/street/go-go chicks played a willing participant in my own deception.
I'd like to put part of the blame on the circumstances I got involved in, I was accompanying a good friend who was dying of cancer. I got into that whole 'life is transient, what does it matter' kind of existential thing. But the truth was that I did what every person should not do, I smothered the truth with too much of my expectations, and ignored the reality underneath.
I met a street gal that seemed very inexperienced. Four of us traveled together. I, she, my friend, and a very raunchy go-go girl from Angel Witch. We went to Sukothai and Chiang Mai, and I have to confess to a little smugness when they insisted on my friend paying a guest fee for his chick and I didn't have to.
We spent the better part of 3 weeks together. Things were different, SHE was different. I was 90% sure of it.
In a moment of stupidity, weakness, or confusion I asked her what she really wanted out of life. After a bit, she came up with 'learn English and computer'. That night I promised her I would take care of her if she (a) would actually go to school and (b) understand that any bullshit with work would result in termination.
Anyways, when I got back I told my friend and his Thai wife my plan. They told me I was crazy and said they should meet Aon and see what she was about. Nok (her name has been changed, not Aon's though, f+ck her). Nok was one of the two chicks that has actually worked out and had the most suspicions about Aon. Even so, she and her husband agreed to help me out with my plan. They did insist on having a way to monitor her school and bank account which turned out to be a good thing.
They got a great rate at a good school (where a lot of the Chula students go for additional education, Nok got me a rate for 350 bucks for six months). Again, Nok and her husband had a talk with Aon where they basically told her I'd never done this before and how she should not blow this chance.
She got enough for herself and her family and initially was taking money out of the bank as someone who needed cash intermittently should. This went on for about 3 months.
Then one day I called and thought for sure I heard a dude with her. I freaked out but somehow got talked out of cancelling the whole thing. Why I don't really fucking know, but I just wasn't sure. Now I realize I should have trusted my instincts but chose again to ignore them.
Gullible as I appear now, at least I had the presence of mind to have Nok do a spot check on the bank. Turns out she'd taken all the money out the day I sent it. She had done that the month previously as well. When I called her she didn't know I had access to the account and totally lied to me. That was it.
The money wasn't the issue. It just didn't amount to that much. The part that got me was that I GOT TOOK. I got burned for a few months and the only lucky thing was I had the presence of mind to know I had to kick this chick to the curb. Immediately. And I did. The sad thing is, I know she was back working but she was actually going to school. She had 100% attendance. It can happen, I boned a chick like that not too many years ago.
Now I'm going back for five weeks of kickboxing, language, cooking, and many, many ho's. If I want to look for something serious, I will look where there are women available for a serious relationship. If I need a working girl I know where to look. I just won't mix the two of them up again.
I still maintain there are working girls out there that can change, but I suffered the illusion that the odds weren't just as bad against me as anyone else. I knew this and forgot that a sexual vacation is like a ride at Disneyland. Enjoy the fantasy but don't forget it's a ride that ends.
Two things I take from this. Don't give money to a 'ho unless you are getting it for immediate services rendered. Any other money given should be considered a non-obligational gift, because I can assure you that is how the majority of them view it.
The other thing is; don't get too smug. You may find yourself in a moment of emotional weakness, let the side of you that wants to find love in unusual places overwhelm the rational side of you, and you too can make the same mistake I did. I think I'll have just a smidgen more compassion and understanding for all those guys who succumbed like I did.
JuiceSpike
09-01-04, 15:53
My 2 cents...
There seems to be some contradictions and confusion going on when it comes to the 3Fs and the GFE terms.
As 1ball wrote, he advocates and likes GFE but at the same time he says that once a guy gets on a plane going back to farang land he must move on and let it go and never, ever send money. Well, this is 3Fs. Isn't it?
As Poobah tells, it is a bad idea to send money and try to rescue a working girl. It sure is.
So, it seems to me that find, fuck and forget also applies to the GFE and to having one girl for many days or weeks. Ultimately, even the guys that like to have a girl for days advocate the FORGET part too. So it is 3Fs for everyone. Right?
To me it comes down to this: I think it is a really bad idea to support a working girl by sending her money becaue most likely (95%) it will not work and she will continue to fuck other guys (behind your back) or waste the money in many ways. Plus, a future with a woman that has been fucked a zillion times and even though in the surface she looks fine, she is damaged emotionally.
Working girls work on one thing only: Money. Yeah, yeah, they have fun doing it but they are as focused on the money as a top stock trader is. Make no mistake about this with 95% of the working girls. The "smile" is cultural thing and a tool to make money.
This is not a cynical view. Nope, it is realistic one.
The thing with taking girls (hookers) for many days (I prefer not because I like variety) is that she might think you are going to support her and she is really working you to do that. They are with you because you are paying them nothing more and nothing less. Yes, they like you and nothing wrong with this either...
With regular girls (not hookers, women that have a real job) the 3Fs is a different thing but another topic altogether.
juice
Migrant One
09-01-04, 16:18
My 2 baht (less than 2 cents)
I think the person who engages in P4P needs to be aware, that seems to be the idea of this thread (although there is a slight tendancy to get off subject at times)
SA says the 3F's, one nighters, and nothing more. Others say (my agreement) that it's OK to look for a GFE. BUT with the knowledge that these ladies are professional at what they do and they do it well (seperate us from our money).
James Clavell wrote a lot of fiction about asia and in one book (Noble House I think) had a Farang business man in Hong Kong fall for a lady. When he made the move for bedding her she declined and eventually offered to help him pick out a pro lady to ease his condition. He said I want you, not her and how can you do this? Her reply (butchered by my besotted memory) was that we (Farangs) are giving something that we have a lot of and they need, money, for something they have a lot of, beauty and sex and that we want, no love, only business. Nothing more, nothing less (now theres a woman!!).
I guess what I practice, and hear is to control ourselves, be aware of the situation. Poobah, with all your years still entered into a 'relationship' but he was aware, he checked out the situation and followed up, and he did so willingly. He got burned (Sorry to hear Poobah) but he knew the chances going in. Thats why we are here, for those that are newbies.
My relationship was in Central America and I checked, double checked and triple checked, and things were on the level, but I knew the risks.
Personally I also think there are diamonds out there, but do your homework!!!
Anyway whether the 3F's or the acceptance of a lady multiple times and seeking a GFE, to each there own. I like variety, but also enjoy some of the ladies company for more than a night.
I guess it's the beancounter in me, when I gamble, I never bet more than I can afford to lose, I know the odds are against me, When I see a bar girl, I only spend what I can afford to lose also since the odds are no better.
Again my baht on the 60+ guys, more power!! I want to go at age 80 by the hands of a jealous husband, while I am en flagrante, on the up stroke, so when I'm dead I fall back in, and then I get one last stroke when the paramedics pull my dead body (and member) out.
migrant
Samus Aran
09-01-04, 16:49
Fellas,
SA just poking fun at a real silly situation. SA is not cutting anybody down and not hear to make enemies. Just having fun in a video game type of way. And, some of you take screwing hookers and humpers just too damn seriously!
Does SA care what u do with girls? NO.... Do what you want them. They just catchers and backboards for you cumshot. Dont mean this in a negative way but this is a simple fact. So, when SA sees a man walking a ho SA feels this guy has fallen for her charms and is on his way to being taken to the cleaners. SA just hates to see men fall for this trap. But you guys right... It sthere business!
Hey, did you like the little scene that SA saw with the older men and the three thai nurses? SA seriously saw this on Sukumvit Rd. Hysterical. Any comments?
Anyways, anybody out there know what would be a good way to meet swinging couples in Bangkok who would like to get together for a 4sum? Are there any good websites to subscribe to that advertise couples interested in some "fun?" Just throwing this out there.
PM SA if you have any suggestions.
And 1ball, this section is drivel! But certainly comic relief and sometimes more palatable than looking at the Thai photo section depicting some not so pretty thai humpers.
SA
Guys,
Thanks for reminding me about the 3f rule because I almost forgot to remember to make a call to my new found love C!
Migrant One -
Two baht is between five and six cents US; so your contribution was more valuable than you realized.
LJ
Terry Terrier
09-01-04, 22:14
well,
i'm almost (but not quite) speechless.
we can actually debate a topic in the thailand section without it deteriorating into flaming/obnoxious personal insults.
my faith in the humanity of this section is restored.
Juice, you write: “As 1ball wrote, he advocates and likes GFE but at the same time he says that once a guy gets on a plane going back to farang land he must move on and let it go and never, ever send money. Well, this is 3Fs. Isn't it?”.
Well if you look at it this way, then every relationship you will ever have with a woman falls into the 3F category, right? I mean, you could have a 2 year relationship with a girlfriend, it ends, and there you have it, 3F. if you are saying that hooking up with a girl for several days, having a great time with her, and leaving her after having spent a great week with her is 3F, then this whole thread is redundant. Let’s close it up like the “skinless and Traveller discussion” thread, and finally put it to rest. But I don’t believe you are saying that.
What I was saying is ridiculous, is the 3F advocated by SA. 15 minute encounters, with the “sperm Tupperware” that is the Thai ‘ho. I find it ludicrous that a man would fly half way around the world for what he has been dreaming is going to be a vacation of a lifetime, to spend his vacation alone, except for 15 minutes a day, holed up in a seedy room in the back of a MP, “humping some skank ‘ho”. No thanks, even if I were a newbie, this is not for me.
3F, as described ad nauseum in this thread, consists of finding, fucking and forgetting, usually in 15 minutes or less. A sexual encounter of 15 minutes holds absolutely no appeal to me, or for that matter, I am sure to most guys who are landing at Don Muang today for the first or 100th time. It is simply not enjoyable. If the one and only purpose is to bust a nut, then stay home, use your hand, and a magazine. My purpose is not focused on the ejaculation, followed by the immediate exit to the street, to immediately forget all about it.
To me, as is it to many others, judging from the PMs I have received giving me kudos for my original post on this subject, P4P consists of a lot more, which will more than likely include going to dinner if I have decided on taking the girl LT, and in many instances developing a “relationship” of some kind over the next day, or 2, or 3, and for some guys here, over the next 30 days. (correct me if I am wrong, JZ, but didn’t you have the same girl for around 2 months, last time you were in CM, and you are none the worse for the wear.) Provided she understands you are a customer, you are paying her, and I make sure I pay her EVERY day, not a lump sum at the end of the week, so we can BOTH be reminded this is a business relationship, then I find it rather easy to let it go when I get into my taxi.
When I say I let it go, what I mean is I am done with the whole thing until I return. I am fortunate that I visit LOS every month to 6 weeks, so once I have found a “keeper”, and what I mean by that is she is someone whose company I have enjoyed, and plan to enjoy again upon my return, then I will contact her again a week or so prior to my return, let her know when I will be there, and would she like to get together. Invariably she is delighted, (or fakes it well, I am under no illusions here), to hear from me, and this particularly delicious creature I met last time I was there, has told me that she will be at the airport to pick me up when I arrive this week end, as her farang boyfriend is out of town again. (if I make it, as I have the flu).
Now for those of you who don’t get to LOS on a regular basis, this route is not a good one. First of all, they can smell new blood, and they are masters at creating an illusion and making a man weak in the knees. If you’ve gone through this as many times as I have, you can laugh it off, but if you are fresh off the boat, beware, she will win, and you will lose. You might think that because you weigh twice as much as she does, and you have a college education, and make piles of money that you have the upper hand, but you are sorely mistaken.
You will find yourself after less than 24 hours with a TG, heading off to Emporium, or Chinatown, to drop some hard earned cash on her. Completely unnecessary, and completely foolish. She will not service you any better after you have bought her that gold bracelet, of that nice new pair of shoes. You might think she is, she might cry out your name a little louder, (how do they remember all our names, it never ceases to amaze me), but she will feel nothing inside, even if she is wearing 2 baht worth of new gold on her wrist. Remember you hopefully negotiated her fee prior to her accompanying you to the hotel, and after you decided to keep her for a few days, her fee is still the same, it has not gone from 2,000 baht a day, to 2,000 baht a day, PLUS all sorts of new stuff for her wrist or closet.
Poobah, sorry to read about your misfortune, being taken for a ride is much worse than losing a bit of money, but you have learned your lesson. Traveler has said many times, if you are in this situation, if you feel you want to help, just give them the money, with absolutely no expectation whatsoever. Then you will not be disappointed when you finds out you have been lied to. I agree to the principle, though I have NEVER sent money, or paid in excess of the negotiated fee.
There are a lot of girls out there, some are literally “sperm Tupperwares” as they are starfish once you get them to the room. But there are a few who take their work seriously, and want to make you feel good. Over a several day period, she will learn your likes and dislikes, both in and out of bed, and you will be greatly rewarded by the sexual and non sexual favors she will afford you. Who will not agree that a girl who knows that you like to &%^(&$ her $%() while she @#&%$ your &@#! is better than a girl who is watching the clock. She will also take you to local restaurants, which you would never find alone, and you will end up with a feast which would probably cost you less that the tourist place you were planning on going to ……..alone.
Why you would kick that gem out after 15 minutes, to go look for someone else who could turn out to be a dud, is beyond me.
Anyway, some might think this lengthy dissertation is not worth $.05, so that was my 1 baht worth.
Terry Terrier
09-02-04, 00:36
For those that are confused by all this 2 baht/dollar business:
www.oanda.com/convert/classic
JuiceSpike
09-02-04, 01:12
1ball,
Nice post. I don't use the 3F with a regular girls if the relationship is going well for both of us. I use the 3F with thai working girls. I'm restless with women and haging out with a working girl for too long it drives me off the wall. That's just my preference. But, I love to spend time and travel with the regular thai girls because they are great company... :D. On my trips I try to combine both so I enjoy the best of both worlds.
Yeah, the 15 minute BS is an exageration of SA to get people to listen or maybe he does it in 15 minutes. Don't know. That's hardly time to get things going for me. I like making the girl juicy then go at it for a lot long time. Also, it really depends on the guy's sex drive and for some guys it just might be 15 mininutes...
If you found girl that you click with that's great but as you say for many newbies spending too much time with one girl could lead to a danger zone.
You wrote a great sentence that really says it all for newbies: "First of all, they can smell new blood, and they are masters at creating an illusion and making a man weak in the knees." Yeah, they are great at that and they play the game right. I love it. I give them credit for knowing how to do it but the deal is not to let them win. I never believe anything they tell me and I enjoy myself because I don't have to worry about it. It's a game, make it fun but always play to win.
I once flew to Thailand with the flu and it is no fun. On the bright side you will have a pretty sexy girl nursing you if you get sick there.
juice
Scotty Monger
09-02-04, 02:19
I agree with Terry. It's nice to see some civil debate on this thread. It seems most are in general agreement, and I think 1Ball has summed up things best.
Just want to make it clear that when I said "never fall in love & never send money", that this is simply my OPINION. I have NOT said, nor will ever say "people who fall in love with TG's and/or send them money are idiots". Poobah's story demonstrates that even experienced mongers may make decisions that they later regret. His story should be a cautionary tale for the rest of us, and reminds me of an overused but still appropriate saying: "No good deed goes unpunished".
I always shake my head when I hear mongers talk about having developed a "relationship" with a provider. This is not exclusive to those mongers that frequent the LOS, as I have heard these words from fellow NLBT mongers. I have never developed a relationship with a provider, but I have developed a "rapport" with them. After employing their services over a period of time, things become less business-like and more sexually trusting. This often leads to better & longer service & PERHAPS lower prices. Where I feel some mongers make the mistake, is in convincing themselves that this "rapport with a wh**e" is in fact a "relationship". Once this line has been crossed, the monger is susceptible to being played for a chump.
Luego
The Traveler
09-02-04, 06:05
1ball
kudos man, kudos.
Just repeating what I am saying for ages, but with much better words than I could ever done it.
Especially the fact that SA is constantly hammering on any farang who is walking with a thai girl besides him. He must be a tourist, she must be a ho, can't be his GF or even wife. How does he know ? And even if she is a ho, if the guy plays the game like Juice or any other experienced guy, what's wrong with it ?
We all will get old one day and respect to all those 60+ and 70+ who still go strong. SA is still far below that age but I would like to see what he will do when he gets older. Maybe his approach would be less arrogant, if not he will end up lonely. Not a nice outlook if you ask me.
1ball, Scotty, Juice, nice to see that there are people who are able to discuss that matter in a decent way and who do not feel entitled to set up their views on the rest of human mankind. Give advice but if someone does not want to take your advice, fine, let him make his own experiences. As long as he doesn't step on my foot, why should I care ? Who are we to set up rules or judge on other people ?
Well, personally, I want a relationship with a provider -- a good working business relationship. As with many of those, there can be aspects of a personal and even to some degree emotional connection, but it only extends so far. I mean, my heart can go out to my plumber when I hear his kid's been hit by a car and has a broken leg, but that doesn't mean I'm going to say, "Awww, gee, that's tough -- why don't you inflate your bill still further." I've got no problem hearing about the tragic water buffalo, the many illnesses, accidents and operations, and so on, and it can even make things more entertaining. (Sometimes "thank you" sex isn't a bad thing, though I agree it's overrated.) But the bottom line is that I'm paying for services and the crux of the issue is whether I feel I'm getting proper value for my money. I've got no problem paying for someone's rent -- as long as I still end up paying going rate overall, with that included.
And yes, 1ball, it was pretty much two months, with a couple of weeks in the middle off when I was toodling around. And while I'd certainly be thrilled to see her again when I'm next in Chiang Mai, it's not going to break my heart one way or another -- I had a good time, enjoyed her company, and wish her nothing but the best, and she had steady income from one specific customer for a long stretch, but no one was in any danger of being in love with anyone else.
The bottom line is simple -- I'm the customer, and the TG is being paid to keep me happy, not the other way around. If we can't agree on what it takes to keep me happy, or if what it costs to make that happen becomes exorbitant or tiresome, then it's time to find someone else who can do the job. But as 1ball so eloquently said, it makes no sense to kick someone out who's a gem, unless you just like prospecting.
And I could utterly care less if I'm being told the truth -- I'm just hoping very much that whatever I'm told is believeable enough to carry me along with it for a while. If I'm watching a play I can believe in and care about the characters and the action without forgetting that I'm watching a play. Same here -- of course it's mostly bullshit, but it's more entertaining bullshit if you have a degree of suspension of disbelief and get carried along with it to at least some extent. If, however, you're one of those people who thinks there are actual murders taking place on stage night after night, well then, idiot, stay out of the theatre.
Samus Aran
09-02-04, 11:28
Fellas,
Maybe the board can help SA out. See SA just cringes when the word "girlfriend" and "hooker" can be easily interchnaged when it comes to sex in Thailand. Do some of the members actually have "girlfriend" experiences with "hookers" in the USA or elsewhere? Is it only in Thailand that this occurs?
What is the difference between GFE and just a regular romp with a sexy humper who performs well for an hour. What are some of the different emotions or feelings that some of you experience between GFE and a quick hump? Do you feel that the ho is more accomodating or into you? Dont mean to be stupid or naive but SA has a difficult time understanding this concept of GFE with a thai humper who spreads her legs for anything that has a few baht.
SA
I think it would be interesting if one could do a search of the individuals who have posted the most, in a particular thread, or country. I think we would find that LOS has 15 to 20 regular posters, let’s face it, we know who we are. We check in every day or so to see what shit has been posted, and we post our own opinions. Then there must be literally hundreds of members with 1 to 5 posts in a particular country.
So basically these discussions are all between about a dozen or so guys, most of whom are LOS veterans. It is strange that we rehash the same thing day after day.
Instead of the constant, repetitive, boring and fairly worthless pounding of the 3Fs, how about we vets make ourselves available to newbies, and I don’t mean that in a derogative way at all, in the same manner a sponsor makes himself available to a new arrival into AA, or NA. We could call ourselves the sponsors of “help me, I’m about to take a TG shopping”, or something similar, and any of us who happens to be in LOS at the time someone needs our help to set him straight, we would answer the cry for help, meet the guy for a drink, and bash him over the head until he comes around. In other words, if these guys are about to screw up, and they ask for help, how about giving it to them. I have spent a few, not a lot, evenings talking to guys fresh off the boat, who are in love after being in LOS for 36 hours. Don’t know how much good it did, but it felt good trying to help them.
So I am officially making myself available to fellow mongers in need, if I happen to be in LOS at the time, I will meet you for a drink, and tell you a few stories of BGs. PM me if you want some help.
Of course the other thing to do is to keep typing about sperm Tupperwares and humping LBFMs
Joe Zop,
"I want a relationship with a provider"
But RN is an EX-provider...:(:D
LOL! Somehow I rather doubt I'll be spending enough time in the Perth area to make it an issue. :)
1ball,
"I love you like monkey loves banana" works on me every time ! But, thankfully, the only shopping I've done with a Thai bar girl is in 7/11.
Clearly, you need no help defending your position, but I too agree that there is a time for an extended service. Traveling to out lying areas often requires it, if you wish to boink.
One thing I've noticed with the Filipinas (I have yet to travel with a Thai BG) is they can't keep up an act for very long. If they are gojng to act like a little shit, it usually comes out on the drive from Angeles to Manila, so it's easy to say "F" this and put her on a bus home. But a couple of them have proven to be truely enjoyable traveling companions.
Your points of letting a good one go and going back for a possible dud (or worse, a dude, yikes) and having an impromptu tour guide are quite valid.
My two piso (just to continue the coin thread).
FD
FD, you big spender you. Shopping in 7/11, knowing you, it was for condoms :)
BTW, PM box now empty, you can send again.
I figure if I buy the flavored ones, I'm off the hook for a meal too ! :)
Damn typo !
FD
ROFLMAO
That was REALLY FUCKING FUNNY !!!
Samus Aran
09-07-04, 18:07
Fellas,
Was wondering if any of you guys can recommend one of those "adult Friend" finder services on the internet? Are any of them worthwhile? What can SA expect? SA is looking for adventurous couples or swingers in Thailand. If any info is available please share it with SA.
SA isnt in the mood to start any wars so SA will post in his section. It was SA's intention to have his last few posts in the SA section but somehow they were accidentally typed in the Thai Woman section. If you notice , that was the heading. Apologizing for any of the feelings that might have been bruised.
SA
Rolly Polly
09-08-04, 12:31
SA,
The adult friend finder type sites are a bunch of bull shit here in the US. There are stories of people who have "scored" using them, but the amout of rejections and sham postings far exceeds the very few decent ones. I would imagine the ones in Thailand are the same. A lot of them are probably american websites that just advertise having Thai women, but in actuality it is just a cash cow for poor naive men.
Samus Aran
09-08-04, 13:05
Rolly,
SA will look into it. SA has his doubts also. Just asking cause SA is keen on some gorup sex in Thailand with a friend of his. Does anyone know of any such thing going on in Thailand? SA is throwing it out there to the general public and the board. Of course it would be 3f style.
SA
The Traveler
09-08-04, 21:04
sa
i had a few girls from http://adultfriendfinder.com/ but just for curiosity and best, it's free. no need to pay for anything, find, fuck, fuck again, forget. just the way you like it.
but i wonder why you are looking for candy when you are living in the candy store. i used it when being back home to prepare a few dates beforehand with girls out of the scene. all in all it was no different than having sex with a bargirl or gogo-girl. some cuties there but lots of medium looking or even ugly girls (to my standards).
only if you are into disgusting stuff like pissing and the like that might be something. i once met a girl who was into it but i refused and did not do her for obvious reasons. if you like i might check if i still got her mobile phone number.
forget yahoo and msn as domino pointed. there are a lot of scams, girls who are just looking for a sugar daddy. sure you can find lots of regulars and even girls from the sex biz, but you have to behave yourself, spend some time with them, have dinner, go to the cinema or disco and for the latter you have to pay, one way or the other. since you do not want to interact with females more than necessary for the act (max 15min) and hate to walk around with them or invite them for dinner, it's an already lost game for you. but if you are able to behave like a human being and also treat them like humans instead of "sperm receiving tupperware" you might have a chance.
btw, i believe in freedom of speech and therefore also reserve the right for you to post in every section as well even if jackson has different intentions. but please watch your wording. we had that before and you are definately capable of expressing your message in a well behaved manner.
JuiceSpike
09-11-04, 01:29
SA,
The **************.com site has a classified section with all kinds of ads, from the strange to the bizarre... It's free.
Domino,
I liked this one: "Find a proper girlfriend for fuck's sake...."
juice
Samus Aran
09-12-04, 10:49
Fellas:
Interesting read in the Thai Opinion section on fighting in Thailand. Well, it just goes to show that you should have absoulutely nothing to do with these hunnies other than a quick hump session pay them and move on. SA can't stress it more. Even keeping them around for a few days in dangerous but we have our group of posters who believe that its ok. These girls can do a number on you even if they lie. What are you going to do? As the saying goes, "Dont be a rat and live in the shit or you become rat." The farang ghettos of Nana, Sukumvit, Cowboy are some of the biggest rat infested corridors in Bangkok and you should expect trouble if you make that your home. But u regulars know that.
And SA agrees most of the chumps fiting in Thailand are your drunk porky farang guys. They are looking for trouble and the embassies are sick and tired of bailing these guys out of trouble. Better they deal with he Thai authorities. No reason to make a scene in Thailand. Just do your business and head home.
Domino, all the people who have read Private Dancer to get lessons in dating a thai ho could have spent 20 minutes in the SA section to get the same information. Yet, there are still tons of guys walking these humpers all over Bangkok like lovebirds. Just today SA saw nasty groping session on the BTS and just about tossed his cookies. Some white pasty dude about 250 slobbering over somer thai hottie. Yuckk. They should have their visas revoked!
Samus Aran
Samus Aran
09-13-04, 14:59
Fellas,
Today is SA's birthday. No, SA is not going out to get a ho for party time. SA acquired some new video games and is content staying in and playing with himself. Bdays are no reasons to go out and get stupid.
Samus Aran
JuiceSpike
09-13-04, 23:35
SA,
Happy B day... Hope all is well in Samus land.
juice
Samus,
Happy birthday:) and here's a present:
http://www.seethru.co.uk/zine/south_coast/helicopter_game.htm
JuiceSpike
09-16-04, 00:08
Freeler,
That helicopter game is fucking annoying... I can't get pass 1,000 points... :D
juice
Juice,
Crash & burn...
That's what you get for playing with other kids' toys:D.
JuiceSpike
09-16-04, 13:57
Freeler,
funny...
Samus Aran
09-18-04, 02:37
Fellas:
SA has to take care of some business.
Duckman in the photo section posts a picture of some thai bar girl and then in the next posts asks members if we have seen this girl? Yea, Dickman SA has seen this girl. She is your typical looking thai bar hump. Answering your question SA has seen her and approximately 20,000 other looking bar humps dressed the same, acting the same, etc. Why in the world are you asking such a stupid question? Delete her photo from your desktop and move on!
Love 22 that has to be the dumbest idea anyone has suggested since SA has been a member of the WSG. And if you are one of the many guys sending cash to some thai bar humper then you are not following the rules. Maybe its time SA repeats the 3 cardinal rules of sexing in Thailand so u dont get romantically invovlved with a humper.
Here they are:
1. Always pay the girl no matter the service.
2. Never take the girl to your hotel room. This is your haven. Get a ST room
3. Most importantly, never see the same hooker twice. You go twice you are hooked. 3f sex guys no matter what the service. We only talking a cumshot and a recepticle for the cumshot.
Samus Aran
Love Sex 22
09-18-04, 23:56
when is the last time you fucked a bar girl, that you such an expert? i think you are a preacher. with nothing else to do in his life but to spend 10 hours a day infront of the screen. what the hell you are doing in thailand? come back home and make somthing of life, exept repeeting yourself on and on and on about the 3 rules .
I'm with Stupid
09-19-04, 02:27
Dude,
Suggestion 2 is a waste of money and the 3rd suggestion is rediculous. If SA can't see the same girl twice without becoming her b*tch, SA needs to grow a pair before he leaves his haven. Not hacking on ya bro, just reality.
Samus Aran
09-19-04, 23:32
LoveSex,
Hey these are just the three safe rule of keeping safe in Thailand. SA knows you an expert but cant figure out sometimes how you guys come up with these crazy ideas of claiming some Thai hooker as your own that you would want someone to "check up" on her? SA gets nervous that some of you guys just hanging on cause of a few orgasms. By the way, what is the signifcance o of banging some bar girl? Certainly is nothing to brag about. Cant really tell your friends back home what u do. And, if SA chooses to be computer nerd so be it. Rather be here playing a video game then prowling the streets looking for some fucked 10 times a day bar ho. No challenge in that. And just because SA isnt out humping bar girls like you, doesnt mean he needs to pack things up and move home. There are tons of more exciting things than where SA's next sperm deposit is going to be.
Hey Stupid,
You new here with a real catchy and not so smart name. Better get some posting experience in you before you come barking at SA. No reality is fucking a ho one time and getting a new one. And yes, is a 400 baht 2 hour humping den worth the risk of having the girl rip you off in your room off or worse bringing the police back to your room for some shake down money. Of course it is! Not hacking on ya bro, but this is the reality in Thailand.
Samus Aran
Love Sex 22
09-20-04, 09:00
Do you know how many bar girls got robbed by the customers? Were we can put their photos?
I'm with Stupid
09-20-04, 18:10
Hey named after a girl, I wasn't barking I was expressing an opinion. Here's another: Your reality is being scared, my reality is being able to enjoy the company of a female without being a paranoid little boy who projects their fears through a caricature. And as to getting more posting experience, OK, I'll repeat myself 258 more times and I'll be as experienced as you :). Over and out Shamus.
Love Sex 22
09-20-04, 21:11
The significant is that you know that they are not trash cans and the are human being as you and me with feelings and emotions. And I hate to go to look for them like a piece of meet as you describe it.
Domino,
"dumb chopper game":D
You did use the LEFT mousebutton, did you?
Samus,
Howmany points did you score:)?
Good show there Meatman. I haven't got past eleven hundred summin'. Usually I crash and burn in the seven hundreds. Of course my mouse has a weird Icarus mode. If I happen to hit the right mouse button during my enthusiatic tapping, it causes the copter to start rising and nothing I do can stop it from crashing into the top of the tunnel.
Tatoosh
JuiceSpike
10-11-04, 14:46
Domino,
LOL...! Perfect.
juice
Samus,
I tried to phone my New Found Love C, but she didn't answer...
Any ideas?
SA
I seem to have missed this section .... but having read it I am shocked.....yes shocked...that people are still using this GFE phrase. What does it mean? That their GF's elswhere are pay for play Ho's. I am confused. I am clearly missing the point here. Are these people coming to LOS to get a girlfriend who is a prostitute? Or do they want their Pay for Play to behave like a very dull sweetheart.
When I pay I want to play! And that means filth and debauchery to the max.
Also I have noticed that while escorting these girls to shortime establishments they keep wanting to hold my hand. Why do they do that? It is not as if they do not know the way to most ST joints. Perhaps they are insecure or it is part of the Suk therapy to get more cash out of the poor fools who buy that sh*t.
SA what is going on? It is us paying them ...right?
I saw a poor fool in the Emporium yesterday with a right 'little scrubber' on his arm try to buy some clothes. She was really giving this guy-who looked like a serious businessman- a load of verbal sh*t. Much to the amusement of the assistants.
Would he let people in his work behave like that? I think not.
Also I would like to point out that the Thai men really treat their girls terribly. They cheat, hit them and usually borrow or steal money off them. These girls are used to this and love it. Really...check out the soap operas on the tv. They really can not believe a serious businessman twice their age will actually do the things they ask him and really care about them.
Pay to play and then move on. If you want a girlfriend dont look to a Ho to fill that void.
And just to bring all down to earth I visited a food factory yesterday that had 1,500 staff. 1,300 were women and their monthly pay was Bht 5,000 - that is for a 60 hour week.
Wayne
Samus Aran
10-12-04, 09:13
Wayne:
This is the only section in the Thailand board worth spending any time at. This is the only section that has got it right. If you want to read about love between a foreign man and a thai hooker dont come here. SA has only one way to handle these little bar hos and that is for 30 minutes of less. Heck, 15 is fine also. There is no GFE in this section. LT experiences are not what this section is about. SA has his enemies but sooner or later they come around and beg to be forgiven and praise SA for his efforts.
Yes, Wayne it is a real ugly site to see a grown man being berated by some 4th grade educated thai bar ho. He takes her crap and cowers in fear like a little boy being punished by his father. SA has seen it many times. Employees like that would certainly be fired for that kind of behavior. But a thai ho stringing some sap along can do as she plesases. See, if he treat her like the employee that she is she would have been out on her ass!She works him cause he allows it. It is a remarkable site to behold.
We dont have to treat the thai women like thai men do but the idea is still the same. Give them very little and just hump the sh^t out of them and then release them back into the wild! Is this really difficult? And Wayne, fun and debauchery is the way to behave in Thailand. And as you put it, "Why keep a dull girlfriend around?"
So many men down on Soi 5 at Gullivers yesterday looking all doey eyed with their hired hole. SA couldnt even keep the cheeseburger down. It just a sad day in Thailand when we have grown men being scolded at by a thai skank! Stay home and let your wife do that! The Skankaholics meeting took place. Read Domino post.
Furthermore, wayne, these men are looking for a girlfriend in a hooker. They really are! SA has had so many arguments that a hooker is for sex and nothing else. But, some fellas insist that these bar hos are worth getting to know and support. Come on!! There is no other way to stay out of trouble in the Thai sex scene but to hump and pay and move on out! Do not fall for this GFE talk. It is crapola.
Wayne, stay away form the Thai photo section. There are some real scary photos posted by some posters. And why post fotos of some humper? What you trying to prove? Throw away the memory! Thai bar scrubbers are not conquests to brag about! Some guys just need the pat on the back from the rest of us to show what they did. Uh Uh, Not for SA.
SA
JuiceSpike
10-13-04, 04:41
Domino,
The "hooker friendly experience" (I like this one) can have in it the GFE element and still be ST or a LT but I would not go for more than that.
SA
I think the photo section reminds me of those shocking magazines caled "Readers Wives" - Just V Nasty indeed. Its like 'look at the girl I have just shagged, I am so clever!" There is nothing clever about paying a girl to shag...perhaps it is clever to be able to afford it. I guess it is clever to find a very beautiful girl...but to parade them around the Emporium is just plain embarrassing. Whenever I see these mugs I just think that the girl is laughing about getting something extra on top of the agreed price. However I guess it is their money so they can spend it how they like.
I think people arrive in Thailand and think because a girl can speak a bit of English, Fu*k and does not give too much trouble (at first anyway) they are perfect wife material. But trying to compare what is going on in a Thai girls head and a Ferangs head is like comparing a Tom Yung Gung with a Cheese Burger.
What i really enjoy are the posts saying 'I have fallen in love etc...should I send money etc... do you think they are really at home every night...she says she loves me...and then the surprise and shock when they check out their little sweethearts and find they are married with three kids and have a dozen or so suckers sending them a couple of grand every month.
It just happens SOooooo often that it really makes me laugh.
I am certain that 99% of all working girls are more than happy to jump on, have a ride, grab the cash and walk out of the door. (As quickly as possible) if they stay it means that they think they can get more money.
People who give you grief on this board should really think about what you are saying. And actually you say the right thing...(however you do chose to be a little brash about it) Pay, enjoy and move on.
Whenever I head out of BKK I check my knob, my wallet and my good luck to be out in one piece. With so many to chose from surely this is the only way to go. By the way if you do 'hang-out' with one of these girls it is not financially a good move. They will hit you for food, phone cards, clothes, taxi fare +++ the list is endless.
Is it sexy to be in a hotel room and see the little cute bird you shagged have a dump? Especially after you see what bugs and roaches these girls eat each day.
My advise to you all is scroll right back to the very beginning of this SA section and read the whole thing.
Good luck to you all
Wayne
Aces In Hole
10-13-04, 19:51
I'm with Wayneking in saying thank you to SA and this thread. While I'm not a 3F purist (spent the better part of a month with 2 of about 3 partners a night being the same freebies), I get the message and agree that, if most of the saps on the Thai board would heed it, they'd save themselves a lot of heart- and wallet-ache.
And, yes, the pictures posted are, for the most part, disgusting. I've realized, lately, that I tend to get the same pleasure from them as from a horror movie: It's the shock value.
Keep posting man. When I make it back to LOS, I'll bring you some video games.
SA
Can you believe it. You are getting a fan club!!
Could get some t-shirts knocked up and some hats too!
'We have Money...give us Honey!'
Keep up the good work SA
Wayne
SA pood jing jing, just that many don't want to LISTEN (I believe in 2-1/2 F, though, - seldom forget good experiences)
Domino - interesting thing about your post but might be lost on some - in the vast scheme of things (particularly) Americans are trying to apply American values to the "trade" as opposed to "Asian" values. This results in a "culture clash" of mega proportions.
I find it utterly amazing the gullibilty and plain ox-headed stubborness of many Americans who won't accept SA's words at face value. But this thread will endure regardless
Wayne - would be nice to do it in Thai (but the direct translation might be lost in the "shuffle") "Mee dtang - ow num peung (krup)" - that would get you lots of HONEY (real HONEY - mai pooying) - anyone know the corresponding term in Thai?
(Using thai characters I mean)
Samus Aran
10-16-04, 00:13
Fellas:
Firstly, KJ Vegas(pattaya section), save us all the drama, none of us interested. We all can tell ur boyish and newbie excitement and ur ordeal has you holding your breath and not coming up for air. Chill out dude we only are talking a cumshot. Why dont u just say, " Fucked girl in morning, slept, woke up, fucked again, slept, fed my fat ass, fucked again. HAd 3sum, fucked again. Old friend came to visit while with girls one. Fucked her. Went out again to feed my fat ass. Fucked more girls. etc... Get the point. You make it sound like your ordeal with old and new girlfriend is supposed to have relevence. You are making the rookiest of mistakes. Oh yea KJ, go ahead and believe that you are a handome man. Keep believeing all of the shit that these thai humpers tell your sorry ass! Get yourself checked for diseases also. Stupid for sticking ur cock into one of these recpeticles without minimum protection. Pure amateur.
Great nite last nite. HAd a nice dinner (not a pig swill fest either) along Patpong with my friend. Sat by the window. Mistake. HAd to watch the scariest of sextourists walk back and forth looking for a piece of all nite pussy. Shit, SA saw girls actually duck into corners hoping some of these guys wouldnt eye them. HAd trouble concentrating on my meal as these pig swilled fed mongerers went on"shopping trips" for a recepticle.
Anyways, after dinner headed to boy bar so my friend could choose a thai boy to join us for 3sum fun. Great fun. we filled her holes over and over again. Thai guys have small dicks. Regardless, we gave her a great nite. It ended with both of us giving her a sperm lathering covering her whole body and face. Best part, was we gave him 3 minutes to get his clothes on and leave. Gave him cash and his ass was out the door. Great 3f experience. None of this shopping trips, dinners, etc ... Just pure sexual fun. This is what Thailand is all about.
Reports like KJs are dangerous. This is an example of not how to do Thailand. Getting invovled with a hooker, sleeping with them overnite, not wearing a condom, is so rookie. 30 minute sex sessions and then send them home. What seems to be the big deal?
Today, SA is off to MBK to load up on new video games. Looking into the new Bloodrayne 2.
Samus Aran
Can you give us ADD patients the Cliff Notes version, please?
Old Thai Hand
10-17-04, 00:17
domino
touche! beautifully written. i'm speechless. i agree and couldn't have said it better. also, it made me feel somewhat guilty. although a university teacher, i've never been on the english teacher/ girlie bar merrie-go-round. (i don't teach english, btw ;-). but, i now feel that my posting of the various student pics over the last six months tars me with the same brush, in many respects. in fact, perhaps i and those like me are worse because the girls weren't ho's but actually good girls from good families who were taken advantage of by the posting their pics. your article convinces me never to post a pic of any thai girl, especially non-ho's, again. although i haven't shown their faces, i realize it shows an incredible lack of respect for a people that i have tried to understand and integrate with over the last 8 years and genuinely care about. perhaps because i'm away from the country for the next year, i have even more respect for the thais. they are an amazing people which, as you say most farang simply don't understand or appreciate.
as for stickman, i've met him once, but don't claim to know him. one of my best friends, however works in the same school and knows him extremely well. you were dead on. since discovering 'respectability' in the arms of a regular tg, he's abandoned his life down at cowboy (especially) and nana to become sanctimonious and preachy about the mongering life. hypocritically, however, he still promotes it, gives advice on it and publishes those pathetic letters from so many sorry-ass wankers.
i've nothing more to say, except to repeat that your well-written piece gives me pause.
oth
SA: 1. I hope you made sure that Thai guy wrapped up very very well. 2. Some dude on the Jap board did a 2m 1f 3 sum and got hell to pay over it. I hope no one comes in here a'flamin you for doing similar. For such a gentle, laid back type of guy, wtf areyou into video games?
Also, forgive my newbie question, but is Panthip Plaza not the place for video games?
I would say Thai male hookers are a much bigger STI risk than the females. I would also be careful with your American friend. Women like that are basically crazy and you have to know where to get off the carasel
Hi Dinghy,
Are you asking for this?
¹éÓ¼Öé§ (naahm pheung)
Or you want to translate the whole sentence
'We have Money...give us Honey!'
àÃÒÁյѧÊì.....ãËéàÃÒ¹éÓ¼Öé§ (rao mee dtang .... hai rao naahm pheung)
Well, I am not so good in thai, so it would be better to ask some girls. It would be a nice T-shirt
Leo - if you notice I said that "num peung" would get you HONEY - the sticky stuff that bees produce. This machine doesn't do Thai characters (which I could read if I could SEE it). What I meant was that all of the honey vendors (they are out on the street there selling old whiskey bottles full of the sweet sticky stuff) would "bee" very happy to see you - the girls probably wouldn't understand the use of "num peung" for "moi"
The Traveler
10-20-04, 21:21
Wayneking, Aces In Hole
Even though I too believe that 99,9% of all girls displayed in the photo section are dead ugly I do not feel the need to express my feelings about them. It's just my taste and who am I to set up rules for others regarding the looks of girls ? There is no way to argue over taste.
So why do you feel the need to criticize other posters for their taste ?
Be happy that others take the "ugly" part of the workforce and that therefore are more "pretty" ones left for you. Just imagine what would happen if all mongers would be after the handful of real cute ones !
Terry Terrier
10-21-04, 22:38
those two sisters that i rented...
... i walked hand-in-hand with both of them from nana parking lot, up sukhumvit road, and all the way to the gp on soi 11. the assorted looks from the thais and mongers were absolutely fucking hilarious. were you one of them? will you come to my polygamous, [CodeWord130] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord130) wedding? i'm very happy. maybe you'll be the best man.
Traveler
It is like a magnet...I get drawn to the photo section like a moth to a flame...I am interested to see if I know any of these girls.
I actually find it hard to believe any Thai hooker is prepared to have a minge shot taken. It is such a huge loss of face. The student photos are really out of order as these girls could get kicked out of college. I think it is really great that they are happy to have a quickie for a small fee. Much better than pounding the tired old holes that are usually available!! Keep their face out of the pics and we will be fine.
I think I am getting used to some of the 'Horrors' - good luck to whoever wants to stick their tackle into them!
Terry - Although holding hands with Hookers is an offence - sounds like a good laugh!! I am actually looking for twins...any ideas??
Wayne
By the way we criticize the quality of the pics..not the posters. We do it because this is a forum...open to all opinions. lets keep it that way!
Wayne
The Traveler
10-22-04, 06:44
wayneking
i would never post a pic of a student - even with blurred faces. real thai gfs, regulars, students and the like are "off limits" for posting. p4p girls are different. the fact that they can be seen at their workplace and the way many dress qualifies them for posting, nevertheless, faces blurred.
regarding critics : do you really believe that you do not criticize the poster if you criticize the looks of the girls he payed for and bonked ?
i have no prob with critics and believe in freedom of speech, i just can't see the benefit of such critics. if you feel the need to express your feeling for the posted pics then do so, but remember, it's just one opinion and others might have another one. there is no way to argue over taste. one girl who might look like crap to you might be miss thailand for someone else.
also do not forget that men pick women not just on looks. what is a beauty queen worth if she got no attitude and lies like a dead fish in your bed ?
maybe the displayed girl had great humor, was a good talker, very skilled and provided great services. you can't judge a book by the cover, right ?
so again, if you believe that your opinion (regarding taste) is so important that others should know about, post it. even if you might disencourage members to post more of their pics. i just can't see any benefit from doing so, but maybe that's just me.
Samus Aran
10-22-04, 17:52
Fellas:
What is with this blue format? Strains SA's eyes! SA is not sure which is worse for his eyes: the blue tint of the browser or the 100% ugliness of the hookers posted in the photo section. For once Traveler is right! The skanks in the photo section are dead ugly. Not one of them is worth 10 baht or the bandwith that Mr Admin allows. Geez, some of you fellas should keep the crap that you are banging to yourselves. Downrite butt ugly! SA believes Mr Admin should set up a screener to weed out the garbage on that section.
Well SA was down around Asoke last nite. Watched the regular lard ass crowd courting their 2 baht "rentals" through the shopping stalls on Sukumvit. SA was watching the scene while eating at a real nice Italian bistro. HAd trouble keeping concentrating on my ravioli as some beheamouth was having a heated discussion with his 16 year old"grandaughter". SA's take was that she was in favor of a bowl of noodle soup and rice and couldnt figure out how to sit with her feet on the floor in a chair or the proper technique for using a fork and spoon. Try eating spaghtti with chop sticks! When the waiter went to put the napkin in her lap, she grabbed his arm and said," to touch me their is 1000 baht!" What class!
Anyways, the selection of girls is getting worse and worse. The dregs coming in from the country side are pathetic! Mom and Pop just arent churning out good wares. Must be the cousins screwing each other out in teh rice paddies.
Hey... playing that new Sims 2 game. HAve my female sim dressed and looking and acting like a Sukumvit hooker. Foul mouthed is her most appealing feature. Her aspiration is cash. Love is not what this sim is about. And SA has her mingling with some obese, pale skinned, love seeking, soccer shirt wearing, unshowered and unshaved farang sim. SA cant wait for those traits to be passed down. SA's baby sim will be born in a few days. What can SA expect it to look like?
Remember fellas.... Love does not exist in Thailand. Being happily involved in relationship with a hooker is bad news. Visited thaivisa website. That forum section is bad reading. Actually has a discussion board about guys looking for advice and help on whether they should marry a bar hooker. SA couldnt be bothered with that nonsense discussion. Just a bunch of newbie english teaching dudes having their first orgasms in years who cant seem to differentiate between sex and love. Sorry fellas.... Hookers are for screwing and nothing else. Release your seed and then move on! And there are plane loads of these sorry assed, looking for love in the laps of a thai bar hooker men. Oh u guys are the weaker sex! Get tough.
SA
I'm with Stupid
10-23-04, 04:32
"Anyways, after dinner headed to boy bar so my friend could choose a thai boy to join us for 3sum fun. We gave him 3 minutes to get his clothes on and leave. Gave him cash and his ass was out the door."
Now I understand the reason you took a girls name. To each their own Aran.
Terry Terrier
10-23-04, 23:41
Samus
focus
yes focus
that last post was sloppy to say the least.
Maybe one of the choir can help you out? (c'mon Domino, I know the internet is shit up in Isan, but, surely you're not going to let a pal down?
PosterLion
10-24-04, 16:04
SA,
Although your post about eating spaghetti was quite humorous, even you should see the similarity of eating spaghetti to that of a bowl of noodles! The only difference is the sauce! :)
Come on man, you've been in Thailand too long for such trite remarks. Hell, I've been here long enough to know that a fork and a spoon are the only implements necessary for dining in high style, of course chopsticks are a nice back up :)
poster...
Traveler
I am pleased to hear that you will keep the Students who have to do a little extra 'off limits' - I hope all take your line on this.
Still confused to why someone would want to admit to shagging some of the birds on the Photo section. I guess it makes interesting viewing for guys back in US or Europe. Its just that it makes the hair on my neck stand up!!
SA - Thais dont 'get it' with Farang food. A total waste of money. They would rather have a glass of water, a bag of bugs and keep the money that the poor foolish Farang is about to pay the waiter. IMHO just skip food.
I have been eating at the Italian in Patpong between Soi 1 and 2 I think. Expensive but dinner for one is cheaper than two...and it is right next to a ST hotel with loads of Katoyes working the pavement. Great street entertainment...cluless tourists being dragged upstairs by some 'fella' whith big fake tits. Too funny for words!
Wayne
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