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third american charged with sex crimes in cambodia
phnom penh (afp) - a us national on monday became the third american man in two weeks to be charged by a cambodian court with sex crimes against children, and faces up to 20 years in prison, officials said.
frank kent, 47, was charged with debauchery -- a legal euphemism for sex -- and taking pornographic photographs of **** girls.
"if convicted he will face up to 10 to 20 years in jail," deputy phnom penh court prosecutor nget sarath said.
the californian was arrested thursday when police raided his hotel room in phnom penh on a tip from a child rights network that he was having sex with four vietnamese girls as young as 15, said keo thea, phnom penh's deputy chief of anti-[CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908).
thousands of vietnamese women and girls work in the sex trade in cambodia.
police confirep001ed a digital camera containing more than 400 pornographic pictures, keo thea said.
local and international rights groups often work in tandem with cambodian police in order to catch people who procure sex from children.
another american, 61-year-old richard arthur schmidt, was re-arrested on saturday while in the company of a young boy after he had earlier been released on bail as child sex charges against him were being investigated.
meanwhile us citizen blake alan respini, 47, was charged friday for committing debauchery and [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) two boys aged 14 and 16.
that guy who was with those **** girls should be drawn and quartered. i hope he goes into a cambo prison and doesn't get deported back to the states.
robux
Robux,
Don't you realize that this sort of 'bust' in such a country is always a set-up? Any reasonable monger should give his brother-in-hobby the benefit of the doubt in a case like this, not the corrupt State. Besides, the story indicated the girls weren't even very young.
Keep in mind also that the local Kmer men are committing 'debauchery' with girls much younger than 15 and no one cares a bit about that. This sort of thing is just an attempt to ruin sex tourism for the typical white 'imperialist'. Every oppressive political group in the world, from Christian and Muslim fanatics to left wing feminists are out to get us. Face it man, we Euro/American mongers (aka white males) are the single most hated minority on the earth.
El Ricardo
01-19-04, 15:26
Hi guys,
My international mongering has been confined to South America and Europe, but have always been interested in Asia. The following link to a New York Times editorial written by Nicholas Kristof about these Cambodian girls being sold into slavery gives me pause. Is this sort of thing exclusive to Cambodia, or am I going to find it all over Asia? http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/17/opinion/17KRIS.html
Here's the text of the editorial:
POIPET, Cambodia
One thinks of slavery as an evil confined to musty sepia photographs. But there are 21st-century versions of slaves as well, girls like Srey Neth.
I met Srey Neth, a lovely, giggly wisp of a teenager, here in the wild smuggling town of Poipet in northwestern Cambodia. Girls here are bought and sold, but there is an important difference compared with the 19th century: many of these modern slaves will be dead of AIDS by their 20's.
Some 700,000 people are trafficked around the world each year, many of them just girls. They form part of what I believe will be the paramount moral challenge we will face in this century: to address the brutality that is the lot of so many women in the developing world. Yet it's an issue that gets little attention and that most American women's groups have done shamefully little to address.
Poipet, 220 miles on bouncy roads from Phnom Penh, is a dusty collection of dirt alleys lined with brothels, where teenage girls clutch at any man walking by. It has a reputation as one of the wildest places in Cambodia, an anything-goes town ruled by drugs, gangs, gambling and prostitution.
The only way to have access to the girls is to appear to be a customer. So I put out the word that I wanted to meet young girls and stayed at the seedy $8-a-night Phnom Pich Guest House — and a woman who is a pimp soon brought Srey Neth to my room.
Srey Neth claimed to be 18 but looked several years younger. She insisted at first (through my Khmer interpreter) that she was free and not controlled by the guesthouse. But soon she told her real story: a female cousin had arranged her sale and taken her to the guesthouse. Now she was sharing a room with three other prostitutes, and they were all pimped to guests.
"I can walk around in Poipet, but only with a close relative of the owner," she said. "They keep me under close watch.They do not let me go out alone. They're afraid I would run away."
Why not try to escape at night?
"They would get me back, and something bad would happen. Maybe a beating. I heard that when a group of girls tried to escape, they locked them in the rooms and beat them up."
"What about the police?" I asked. "Couldn't you call out to the police for help?"
"The police wouldn't help me because they get bribes from the brothel owners," Srey Neth said, adding that senior police officials had come to the guesthouse for sex with her.
I asked Srey Neth how much it would cost to buy her freedom. She named an amount equivalent to $150.
"Do you really want to leave?" I asked. "Are you sure you wouldn't come back to this?"
She had been watching TV and listlessly answering my questions. Now she turned abruptly and snorted. "This is a hell," she said sharply, speaking with passion for the first time. "You think I want to do this?"
Another girl, Srey Mom, grabbed at me as I walked down the street. She wouldn't let go, tugging me toward the inner depths of her brothel — but she looked so young and pitiable that I couldn't help thinking that she really wanted me to tug her away.
So I did. I paid the owner $8 to spring her for the evening and then took her away for an interview.
The owner let Srey Mom go out unsupervised, it turned out, partly because she had been a prostitute for several years and was trusted to return — and partly because her dark complexion meant that she was of little value anyway. The brothel sold her to men for just $2.50, compared with the $10 commanded by the lighter-skinned Srey Neth.
I asked Srey Mom what her freedom would cost. Payment of about $70 in debts to her brothel owner, she said. Two girls in her brothel had been freed after they found boyfriends who paid their debts, she said, and she spoke of her longing to see her sisters and the rest of her family in her village on the other side of Cambodia.
"Do you really want to leave the brothel?" I asked.
"I love myself," she answered simply. "I do not want to let my life be destroyed by what I'm doing now."
That's when I made a firm decision I'd been toying with for some time: I would try to buy freedom for these two girls and return them to their families. I'll tell you in my column on Wednesday what happens next.
ER
That Asshole
01-20-04, 04:33
Things like these have always happened. Will always happen. No one cared much about them.
Until now. Why? Because women have a voice now. No one used to listen to them, dismissing as 'just stupid womantalk' but now people are listening.
Women are now owning businesses, are managers, politicians, own real estate and want more.
No man in his right mind would care much for these issues unless was nudged continuously by a female. Now in the West to get pussy is by the way of licking arses. Khmers still do it the traditional way like men always used to do.
I remember my grandpa belting up granny quite regularly and so did every able man in town. No one cared. Yet she was respectful to him and loved him devotedly. Now they call it abuse. Domestic violence. It wasn't. Just teaching respect.
Khmer cops are after the foreigner not for moral reasons but for the cash. What do you think will happen to the imprisoned's assets?
Missionaries (NGO) are also making a buck. Most of these people are unemployable in the private sector so they do this. For living. For food. They are not volunteer workers. Clinging to their jobs for food to the family, their kids, wives.
Real morality has little to do with it. Many of the most zealous persecutors have done the deed themselves. They feel they get some kind of remission by persecuting others for it. Remember the holy inquisition?
About the girls ages: How old is a viet/khmer girl? It depends how old you want it to be. If you ask for a fourteen year old they bring you a fourteen year old. If you ask for eighteen, they bring the same girl. How would you know? How did they know the girls ages in the report? Most of them have no ID of any sort. Some of them don't even know their own age.
Were they just guessing then? Will guessing stand up in court? They look misleadingly young and they can be made up to look even younger (or older) as you wish.
I did a test. In our town there is a sizeable Vietnamese population. I very politely asked some young women's ages who just looked too young to have the kids they walked. To my surprise they answered 21, 22, 24. Why would they lie here? It's a free country. Yet they could easily be mistaken for 14 year olds.
In fact the very first girl I met in Thailand looked just too young to me. I asked for her ID to make sure she was at least 18. It turned out that she was 28 and had two kids, aged 9 and 11. She had been working in that bar for 6 years.
This issue is little about morals. It's about cash, cash and power. Which just means food, shelted, and jewellery, clothes, cosmetic surgery for some. Guess for who?
That Asshole
01-21-04, 10:42
additionally i would like to make some notes of elricardo's report and that of the young journalist's:
this is just ridiculous. every time some asian female says something it is all taken at face value. for example the confinement, forced labour, kidnapping, etc, etc.
dear colleagues,
if you have spent any reasonable time in asia you would know this by now: eyes swimming in tears and she is telling you about this heart rendering story. her mother died when she was three, they had to work in the ricefields instead of play, forced into prostitution at the young age of 12, abusive clients, maffia, [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) and so on and on and on.
we have heard this a million times and it brings no news. you just don't understand what's really going on. it takes a while to get used to it. the point is this: you are a foreigner. you are an outsider and will always be. your name doesn't matter because it is always the same :"mr. cash".
that's right. you are just food, dinner ticket. if they can't get you laid then they part you from your money in other ways. by heart rendering stories of hardship and abuse and whatever else may work.
that's their way of life, that's how they survive. don't believe one single word they say. it's the same everywhere in the philippines, thailand, cambodia, brazil. certainly don't try to prosecute another foreigner on the grounds of what they say. if you do, you may be the next.
guess what will happen if that poor young inexperienced journalist pays for the girls and "rescues" them so to say. they send half of the money back to mama, spend the other half on some glass beads or ear-ring and the very next week they are back in business, crying to the next foreign reporter who is willing to listen to them.
it's happened a billion times and will again happen till eternity. it's really funny to me that people still get caught by them. but yet it has happened to me too and possibly will happen again if i am not on guard.
take care
alexander
Maybe we shold move this to another location. I dont want to get into a moral debate but prostitution is a case by case basis. As Cambodia becomes more liberated and educated maybe it will be more like Thailand and have some girls with choices, and eventually just like the west with us literally begging for some ass. BUT, Alexander I must say that your Grand Pa hitting your Grand Ma is not a form us respect but control similar to what we dont like to see. Respect is given to those who deserve it not taken by force.
El Ricardo
01-23-04, 04:45
I appreciate the comments, and I'm not into the moral debate either. Personally, I'm interested in following this story, and would be more interested in a follow up story from Kristof in about six months and tell us all how it turned out.
Also, I thought about just putting the link in here, but its only available from the NYT for a day or two. But if its of no interest, I don't want to add clutter to the site...we get enough of it. I expect there will be more installments coming from Kristof, and if anybody's interested, they know where to find it.
My only experience with the asian ladies (other than the AMP's with Koreans here) was a Thai girl in Geneva, Switzerland. God she was beautiful! Incredible body, and would do most everything except kiss. That she saved for her husband back in Thailand. She was only going to work in Switzerland a little longer. Just long enough to get enough money to buy her husband a car that he'd always wanted. That left me talking to myself! I was clearly naive about understanding this culture but would sure like to give it a try.
ER
That NY Times article caused quite a stir. Just wait until you see this! http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/
Dateline NBC just aired a big piece on child prostitution in Cambodia. It includes an interview with Colin Powell.
I know that this forum has a high standard of not talking about child prostitution. However, this is a major embarassment to Cambodia and I think it will make it difficult for mongering.
Tooch
more on ny times article.
going home, with hope
by nicholas d. kristof
published: january 24, 2004
battambang, cambodia
as we bounced along rural cambodian roads, away from the wild brothel town of poipet, the two teenage prostitutes i had just purchased told me how they had come to be 21st-century slaves.
as described in my last couple of columns, i had visited cambodia to write about one of the great scourges of the third world, [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908), which ensnares some 700,000 people worldwide per year. at its worst, the trafficking system takes innocent village girls, often sold by relatives or kidnapped by neighbors, imprisons them in brothels to be raped repeatedly and leaves them dead of aids by their early 20's — and yet there is far less international effort to save these children than to, say, save the brazilian rain forest.
i ended up buying the freedom of two girls, srey neth for $150 and srey mom for $203. srey neth, a 17-year-old with short hair and increasing sass as she left servitude behind, is a third-grade dropout. her family owns five acres of farmland, but her father caught malaria and they had to mortgage the land to pay for treatment to save him. the family risked losing the land altogether, so an older female cousin, mam di, suggested a solution.
"mam di said, half-seriously, half-joking, 'your family is in debt, so you'd better go make some money by selling your virginity,' " srey neth recalled. "at first i didn't understand what she meant. but she kept explaining."
in a third world country like cambodia, where girls are second-class citizens and steeped in the notion that they must sacrifice for their families, mam di's argument was persuasive.
"i agreed because i knew my mom was in debt and i wanted to help her," srey neth said. "i didn't care what kind of job i had to do to help her."
so mam di told the family that she would get srey neth a job selling fruit and then took her to a brothel, which sold her virginity to a casino manager. a doctor examined srey neth to confirm to the casino manager that she was not infected by the aids virus and that she was a genuine virgin. then, for $750, srey neth spent a week with the casino manager. he did not use a condom.
afterward, srey neth was confined to the brothel and sold for $13 a session. she worked as a prostitute for a month, until i met her and freed her.
srey neth grew more animated as we finally rumbled down a dirt road and reached her home, a thatch-roofed hut on stilts. but her family showed more interest in our car than in srey neth; she was treated as no more than a lost cat that had shown up again.
i could see how a girl with gumption like srey neth, unschooled and naïve, could yearn to get away. it is precisely this low status of peasant girls in so many countries that makes the trafficking possible. for trafficking to be wiped out, the low status of girls needs to be addressed through literacy and job programs and other efforts.
to keep girls from being trafficked again, aid workers had told me, two things are necessary. first, their past must be kept secret, for otherwise they will be stigmatized and can never marry. second, they need some alternative way of earning a living.
we had discussed business possibilities on the long drive, and i left srey neth's family with $100 so she could build and operate a small grocery shop on the village street outside her home. i also arranged for american assistance for cambodia (www.cambodiaschools.com), an excellent aid organization experienced in helping cambodian children, to visit srey neth periodically, help her open the business and train her in reading and perhaps other skills, all as a pilot effort to help teenage prostitutes start new lives.
that evening, srey mom's cellphone chirped, and it was srey neth, excited and joyful in her restored freedom. "i've already bought the wood to build the grocery store," she declared.
so one girl was back in her village, seemingly adjusting well. but the one we really worried about was srey mom, who had been a prostitute for much longer, and whose family did not even know she was alive. we got back in the car for the long trek, clear to the other end of cambodia, to srey mom's village. stay tuned.
Greetings everyone. I looked in here to say hello and whose name do I see? Nicholas D Kristoff. Hmm. What a name? Could this, I said to myself (for I talk a lot to myself in my padded cell) be the same NDK (a journalist) who wrote Pink Samurai, about s-e-x in Japan many moons ago? That was a funny book, well written, witty but little of substance in it. (Japs are like bunny rabbits, always at it giggle giggle) Thought he had died.
One of the beauties of traveling is to fuck women. Little else worth doing really. Many journalists have bought hookers their freedom (set them up in their village with $200). The BBC, with which NDK would be familiar, did it some years ago in Thailand. They usually fail. Same as the guys here who send $200 or $200,000 for that matter.
Sex traficking makes good copy. Especially when kids are involved - and it is great this issue is now being raised here and in Thai Photos, but it might be much better in the Opinion spot Jackson reserved for it. Maube it should also be raised inthe German-Czech section too. Many of the NGO guys are legit; others don't know Jack shit. There is a LOT of sex exploitation of kids in Cambodia (anyone like Garry Glitter?) Thing is, my Pattaya friends told me, when the media run a shock and outrage story, business booms. Every time!
Let's be adult about this conversation. We are not saints (well maybe Saint is a Saint but....) No need to flame NDK etc. Just the facts gents, just the facts.
Skinless,
Actually, Pink Samurai was written by Nicolas _Bornoff_.
Sho
Travis Bickle 2
01-25-04, 07:45
Skinless, What section is that? I didn't know there was an opinion spot reserved for that discussion. Are you referring to the editorial section? I believe that thread is closed to all but Jackson. Let me know.
Civ2K
Child prostitution needs to be wiped out at all costs.
I know a little bit bit about SE Asia. I lived there continuosly for six years. I did plenty of mongering while there. I'm married to a beautiful Thai girl and we are now living in the US with our daughter for the last four years.
This article and story are for real as are the authors credentials. I'm all for girls over eighteen doing as they please if not forced into prositution.
You guys need to get your heads out of your asses and start living in the real world. Below is biography of NY Times author. It was gleaned from the NY Times website. Do some investigation before you start spouting rubbish and misinformation!
Nicholas D. Kristof was appointed as a columnist for The New York Times in 2001. His columns appear each Wednesday and Saturday.
Previously, he was associate managing editor of The Times, responsible for the Sunday editions. Mr. Kristof joined The Times in 1984, initially covering economics. After that, he served successively as a business correspondent based in Los Angeles, Hong Kong bureau chief, Beijing bureau chief and Tokyo bureau chief. In 2000, he covered the presidential campaign and, in particular, Governor George W. Bush.
In 1990 Mr. Kristof and his wife, Sheryl WuDunn, jointly won a Pulitzer Prize for their coverage of the Tiananmen Square democracy movement in China. They are the only married couple to have won a Pulitzer for journalism, and they also won various other journalism prizes including the George Polk Award for foreign reporting and the Overseas Press Club award for international reporting.
Born on April 27, 1959, Mr. Kristof grew up on a cherry farm near Yamhill, Oregon. He attended Harvard College and graduated Phi Beta Kappa in 1981, then won first class honors in his study of law at Oxford University on a Rhodes Scholarship. He also received a diploma in Arabic from the American University in Cairo.
Mr. Kristof and Ms. WuDunn are authors of "China Wakes: The Struggle for the Soul of a Rising Power" (1994) and "Thunder from the East: Portrait of a Rising Asia" (2000). They are the parents of three children
Dear Mr Z: Yes, you are right on both counts. I confused Nicholas Bornof, the journalist, with Mr Nicholas Kristof, the journalist. Thank God, we have the NYT to tell us child prostitution exists for how else would we know (especially as, with regard to your second point, we keep our heads fimly in our asses). Still, it was a good story, eh? Pulled the old heart strings, so the Newspaper of (Long Playing) Record will be happy as subscriptions might go up.
And thank you Civ. You are indeed right. No one can post there, besides our genial host, Mr Jackson. Child prostitution is an interesting story and, for what it is worth, I previously posted about how I came across it (male boys) in LOS and how LE questioned a farang who was there for it.
Cambodia is particularly sad, given all the shit that country had to go through. The solution, however, is not the NYT or the BBC doing a very cheap (in dollar terms) piece on it. I wish I knew the solution but we are probably all part of the problem.
I am glad this section has started and I hope it stays within Jackson's guidelines. We do not want it to be a NAMBLA bulletin board. There is something pretty sick about anyone preaching morality but there must be rules about what people do. Children have the right to be children and there is no excuse to go round fucking them literally or metaphorically. I was actually very interested to see those BA boy kids had never kicked a football and thegirls had never owned a doll. That's where kids should be at: playing ball and playing with toys.
The Internet and the collapse of Communism has opened up a lot of new doors. It does not make fucking kids right in the least. I hope we can discuss the issue, learn and not help spread that scourge.
Amen to that Skinless. Btw when did you post that report on dirty old men with little boys in Pattaya. I've searched your old posts, some hundreds of them to find it. Would be curious to read about your experience.
To all the child mongers here(and I'm sure there's probably a few lurking), may the law catch up with you and may you find a big bubba as a cellmate.
Good post Skinless,I would hope all the pediophiles of the world meet there dying doom one day.Most of you as well as myself have children so,you know where I'm coming from.Let the children be just that......Children.
God bless em!
Take care
MeatMan
Tube Steak
01-28-04, 07:54
On NPR last night " Fresh Air" did a piece on the sex slave trade. It was pretty tough stuff, describing kidnappings, luring of young Russian girls, and stealing children. Now, I've been a monger for probably 25 years and I like to believe that all the providers were independents, there of their own free will, but we all know that is not the reality.This article really put things in a different perspective. The NY times writer being interviewed spoke strictly of girls (and boys) forced into the biz. Not ,as many of the providers we know, there to support a drug habit . The most likely victims were either Mex or Russ girls. I habituate the Northwest and I don't believe it is big business here, but I don't particularly want to contribute to that ugly side of the biz.
I'm just throwing this out there, wondering if anyone else heard it and wants to comment. I'm not going to stop mongering but I don't wish to support slavery.
S.
I posted the piece about young male boys some time ago but I subsequently removed it. It was not Pattaya but somewhere else in Thailand. The kids were on glue and living rough. In one sense a question of supply and demand but in another not. A wealthy Dutch guy was preying on them and the cops took his details but he bs his way out. I later saw him in Pattaya, after the gay guys. There are lots of apples to pluck but there must be limits.
Organicgrowth
02-06-04, 00:04
I’m no snitch, but I would urge reporting this Dutch guy to the local ‘boys in blue’ if he was preying on kids. I hold no hard-line beliefs on anything other than my zero-tolerance of paedophilia.
There is no place for such people in our world. No place at all. Enough said.
I thought the sex slavery story in the NY Times Magazine was exaggerated.
It primarily detailed mexican girls being imported and provided for Mexicans in the United States, and is not indicative of the over-all sex business in the mainstream.
Anyway slavery implies some sort of legal ownership-- these are really "kidnapping" or "hostage" situations.
As for the child sex in Thailand......it is going on and its pretty obvious if you go to Pattaya. It is on the fringes of the more typical sex tourism, but if you look far enough, it is unfortunately there.
Anywhere there is great poverty and a fairly open sex trade, I think this kind of thing is inevitable under those circumstances.
What is even more unfortunate is deviants who prey on pre-pubescent children in these locations-- that is just shocking and criminal, and can't be tolerated.
Joe Zop Where are you when we need you. Give this thread a blast if only to move the Thai stuff foreard. You are always going on about the morality of prostitution, a strange term. What do you think of our latest problem on the Thai page? Maybe Jackson should ban all of us?
What is all this about GFE? All we are doing is trying to relive our adolescence. Pony tailers in our 50s and 60s taking some teenage idiot around to boost our egos. We still have to draw a line somewhere but we must also recognize the hypocrisy in our own actions.
The Thai chick works thing because guys get off the plane praying that anyone of fuckable age will say I love you to them. Many of them pay out big fortunes to hear those words. I odn't particularly want to hear it from a Thai hooker.
Mongering will never have major appeal for the same reason main stream middle class religion will never die out. Imagine the repercussions. The gay lobby hate the way Nambla tack on to them. There are all sorts of gay guys. There are all sorts of mongers. But having a Nambla platoon on your back will win mongers no friends.
To everyone in the Thai section, let us move on. And let us also post relevant stuff here in this place which the ever patient Jackson has provided. Jackson has opened up this important thread.
We all live with hypocrisy and with our own baggage but various threads here - the American women, Morality of Porstitution and many more - allow us to spin ideas around, sometimes in an inteligent way. Let us sieze the day.
BTW, Traveller, to make bold type [ baaold] and close the highlighted piece with [/ boallld] wqiht collect sperring.
Hey Skinless who is she and where did this happen?
Agree with you about the Thai board. We can be a bunch of grandmas sometimes carrying on like we do. :)
Skinless the dead poet.
ok, skinless, i'll bite.
i agree that "morality of prostitution" is a strange term, but it's threads like this one that call it into question. somewhere in the equation, if you're someone who doesn't believe that prostitution is innately any big deal or wrong, there's gotta be a level of responsibility that falls on the monger, and the whole **** thing definitely has to be one of them.
i've some sympathy about traveler's experiences, in that dealing with women of a different culture, who have different physical and social features than one is used to, can make it harder to differentiate age. heck, we've had high profile instances with porn stars in the states (tracy lords, etc.) where many people have been fooled. i think traveler is taking a heavy amount of grief for trying to do a reasonable thing, which is point out how easy it is to get fooled in a culture where bar girls are all supposed to be of age and some who look the part are not.
but somewhere along the line responsibility still has to fall to the monger to know what he's getting into, and that's true in terms of the age of his partner as much as it is the circumstances. most of us would be horrified to know that we're frequenting a place where the workers are virtual slaves, who have been duped into working there are are held by force, and we'd stop going once we knew that. so i don't see how mongers don't have to feel an extra sense of care or caution if they know that **** sex workers are wandering around.
as i said in the thailand thread, i'm not someone who's particularly into teenagers regardless, not only because of this issue but because i think women at least in their twenties simply tend to be better sex partners, but if i'm at all unsure or uneasy i'm walking away. my caveat on traveler's situation is why he, as an experienced monger who speaks fluent thai, didn't do the same, and i can only conclude it was either the little head speaking or alcohol clouding his judgement unless it's just the thrill of making it with someone far younger than he.
Skinless,
Unlike Joe Zop, I won't take the bait:D!
And I'm going to stick to smileys too and none of that '[ baaold] and close the highlighted piece with [/ boallld] wqiht collect sperring.'
BTW Is it very obvious that I don't buy The_Traveller's bullshit:D?
:DHave fun:D
Cozy little group here. Interesting others have not joined in. Oh well.
1.Freeler: I made the [baold] to allow some people to do this shit . However, it stuck me and some others to see the problem of making :(:) getting equal billing as the topic of this thread:(:(:(
2. I put some graphic photos up which reinforce Jackson's editorial line. In answer to Sainter's question, go read up on it by google. Here is one more photo.
3. Joe: Thank you for coming in here. The thread is dangerous but important. Have a look at the Looking for Lefty thread in Milwaukee. Everyone could benefit by reading the pros and cons in that thread.I would go so far as to say everyone should be made read it.
4. Everyone of us should also question our own involvement in this entire industry/hobby and lots of other guys in many threads have made great points about this. I have met lots of mongers in LOS I believe should be put to death; I do not want to be on vacation with any of them, except it is is to bring them down The Long Mile to Old Sparky. The common thread of Thailand which binds us is: cheap women and tragedy. We all feed off the tragedy but there has to be limits. Age has to be a defining factor and I do not need some teeny bopper to boost my ego.
5. Because I like good sex, the ideal sex partner should be at least 25 years of age. Although a late night orgy party with some younger sluts might be nice, I don't need a girl who does not know wtf she is doing with an old man (as we all are to teenagers).
6. Cheap destinations like Thailand - more so Cambodia and places now - allow us to buy in to any sex perversion we like. That includes kids, SM and lady boys. All of those things lead only down imho. Same as Eden. Two hired helpers and a dildo. Fucking boring. I now find women in their 40s-50s sexy!! I find kids are kids and they make me laugh watching them hunt each other. I am no part of that and do not want to be a part of it.
7. Firedick. I do not not need the BB One. Or Oprey. Gimme a break. The tradedy is my my form of R&R.
8. Havanaman: The cops were on to the Dutch guy and they asked him for his details. That guy was just one guy but I subsequnetly found out things had got a lot nastier there. Anyone thinking of fucking the Thais around should know if you fuck them around, the don't take prisoners.
9. Jackson. thank you again for putting up with all of us and [bld][red} Tell Laura I Love Her.[/red] [/bold]
PsyberZombie
02-14-04, 14:11
some terminology needs to be clarified here because it seems that some of you guys aren't talking about the same thing.
****philia is an intense and recurring desire to have sexual relations with sexually immature children. ****philia is a psychiatric disorder and is abnormal and illegal.
ephebophilia is the perfectly normal desire to have sexual relations with a sexually mature individual who just happens to legally ****. while normal, acting on ephebophila is also illegal, and is called statuatory [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) in the u.s. legal system.
you can be an ephebophile in one jurisdiction and perfectly legal in another. also important to note is that with any given individual desired, relations cease to be illegal at some 'magical' moment [ typically, midnight on the the person's 18th birthday ]
here's an example:
take a look at these images of the 17 year old bridgette bardot:
http://*******.com/3c2p2
any normal man will find this beautiful woman sexually attractive.
if you were to act on those desires where i live [rhode island , u.s.a.] , it would be perfectly okay because the age of consent here is sixteen.
but if you were to act on those desires just a few miles away in boston, where the age of consent is eighteen, you would be considered a criminal and if prosecuted and convicted would most likely be sentenced to a prison term.
i only point this all out because some people here call apparent ephebophiles, ****s; and there is a world of difference between the two.
Travis Bickle 2
02-14-04, 23:28
psyberzombie, excellent points and ones i've made in the past myself. i use the example of traci lords in the movie "new wave hooker's". in that movie she was fifteen but everyone including the producers thought she was eighteen. did that make us all ****s because we were sexually excited while watching that movie? heck no!. were we ****s because we got excited watching that movie when we learned her real age? again no. your definition of ****philia is exactly the same as psychologists use to define it. which is a sexually immature child; usually under the age of twelve. i don't believe it is okay to have sex with someone under 18; it's just not ****phila however.
one thing to note however: the age of consent is misleading in many states. although the age of consent is 16 in my state (washington) it is a felony to patronize a 16 or 17-year-old prostitute. in addition, sex with a consenting 16 or 17 year old is considered "communication with a minor for immoral purposes" which is a gross misdeanor. i wouldn't be at all surprised if rhode island had a similiar law. most states do. thinking the age of consent means its okay for an adult to have sex with a gal under 18 has landed many a well-intentioned guy behind bars. best not to go there.
finally, ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. if the sw looks like she's thirty; has legitimate i. d.; and says she thirty -- you're still guilty if she turns out to be 17.
i was seeing a counselor about ten years ago and was telling him about my mongering and he asked me if i had any ****phila type desires. i answered that sometimes when i passed the local high school and saw those young hotties wearing their short skirts i got a bit excited and fantasized a bit. his answer was "join the club" and said that was perfectly normal behavior as long as i didn't act on it. i never have.
be careful out there!
civ2k
PsyberZombie
02-15-04, 01:11
To : Civ2000
Know Yer Laws !!
Here's the Relevant Statute here in “ Li'l Rhody ” =
TITLE 11
Criminal Offenses
CHAPTER 11-37
Sexual Assault
SECTION 11-37-6
§ 11-37-6 Third degree sexual assault. – A person is guilty of third degree sexual assault if he or she is over the age of eighteen (18) years and engaged in sexual penetration with another person over the age of fourteen (14) years and under the age of consent, sixteen (16) years of age.
PsyberZombie
02-19-04, 00:58
I think that we ALL agree that having sex with CHILDREN is *Reprehensible*
The Question comes down to = At What Age is a Female able to be accountable for her Own Actions ??
Where I live [ Rhode Island , U.S.A. ] the Age of Consent is
*Sixteen Years*
Is that Un·reasonable ??
When Yours Truly was 16 yrs old = I could drive a Truck with a standard transmission; was drinking beer and Martinis; smoking tobacco and pot; Going to Bars and Strip Clubs [ using Fake IDs ] ; having Sex; and generally doing EVERY·THING an 'Adult' was doing [ except Vote ]
The LAW said I was a 'Minor' , but I knew that 'Adult·hood' was just an Arbitrary Line on the Calender
ALSO = when I was younger, I worked as a LifeGuard for several Summers; and quickly learned that MANY of the Bikini·popping Babes I met were as young as ** 13 ** !!
And Many of THEM were more 'Socially Advanced' than I was !!
So therefore I find it Very Hard to accept the View·Point of the faction of posters here that write that a WOMAN who happens to be 16 yrs old is in·capable of making Life Decisions for HER·SELF !!
PsyberZombie, while I agree with you that some and perhaps even many of those 16 year-old or even below are as capable as many adults in making such decisions, I'd also say that there's a pretty high percentage who simply are not developed to the degree that they can truly understand the consequences of their actions. Plenty of 15 or 16 year-olds think the idea of having a baby, for example, is really cool, but they have no real understanding of what it actually takes to live in the adult world and not only care for but support a child. Your list of 16-year-old accomplishments isn't really a comfort -- the fact that you did them and survived is great, but, for example, teenage drinkers are more likely to drink and drive than adults, are more likely to commit suicide, are more suceptible to brain damage and memory loss than adult drinkers, etc. Teens make up one quarter of all reported STD cases, contraceptives are not only used less often but they are more often used incorrectly and ineffectively, with teen pregnancies accounting for about one quarter of all accidental pregnancies in the US each year. And there are plenty of other stats about disproportionately negative consequences of "adult" activities on teens -- the 16 year-old you driving that truck was far more likely than most to get in an accident, for instance.
I think the intent underneath the law is clearly to try to find an age where, on average, people are able to make informed decisions about how such behavior will affect them. If there's error, it should be on the side of protecting those who are potentially vunerable.
I've got friends in their forties who seem incapable of this :), but the vast majority seemingly are. Can't say that for most of the teens I know, especially those below eighteen.
Rubber Nursey
02-19-04, 06:09
I'm with Joe. I don't think age of consent laws are about whether or not the child is capable of MAKING decisions...I think it's more about whether they are capable of LIVING with those decisions. They may be old enough to have sex, but are they old enough to deal with the consequences? (And this from someone who was a teenage Mum, herself).
Travis Bickle 2
02-19-04, 06:25
Psyberzombie, I know the laws fairly well, albeit not for all fifty states. My point was however that the age of consent doesn't necessarily mean its legal. Quite a few places including Wa State and Vancouver B. C. have ages of consent being fourteen and sixteen respectively, however patronizing a prostitute in these age groups is a crime.
Joe Zop, Good post from you. I agree with all of it.
Society is responsible for protecting it's vulnerable members. Somewhere an arbitrary line has to be drawn. Is this line applicable to everyone? Of course not. But generally it is eighteen where a person is considered to be an adult. At this age they are old enough to sign a contract; live on their own; most have graduated high school, etc. It just makes sense. Anyone who has kids knows there is a huge difference in maturity between 16 and 18. As Joe stated there is a huge amount of negative consequences from teens engaging in sex.
Also Psyber, Know yer laws. Legally a person is considered eighteen or twenty-one the day before their birthday, not on midnight as you stated.
Civ2K
PsyberZombie
02-20-04, 22:42
if you *hate* ****s as much as i do , you'll find
this site quite entertaining !! =
http://perverted-justice.com/
here's just one example =
a '****' at <manu11081971@yahoo.com>
[ feel free to e-mail him with your opinions ]
... turned out to be a fricken leo !!
or , as he is now = an ex - leo !!
check out the story of his bust at =
http://www.kptv.com/global/story.asp?s=1651577
the video link there with him all teary·eyed and *swearing* he didn't intend to have sex with the girl , is directly contra·dicted by his own im's !! =
http://perverted-justice.com/index.php?archive=manu11081971
[ his home phone # is given in this link , for what it's worth ]
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