Living in Brazil [Archive] - InternationalSexGuide

Jonny D

03-01-04, 15:18

Hello all,

Thought I'd add a few points to this section.

I'm an expat living in Rio, have been here for 5 years.

I'm living in Barra as well, but have seen most of the 'points of interest', as far as this forum goes, anyway.

Bullet points as follows.

- Non pros. Not too difficult to arrange. Many good nightclubs. I also live in Barra. As of now (March '04), the hot one is Nut (might be spelled Nuth). It's pretty busy at weekends, and a foreigner will always attract some interest.

My tip - remember you're the foreigner, not them. While the girls might find this 'fascinating' the guys might find this threatening. Brazilians are on the whole exceptionally friendly, but like anywhere else, they don't appreciate 'rich foreigners' waving dollars in their faces, so be discreet.

- Pros.

Several categories.

1. Street walkers. You will find these on most of the beaches. Copacabana is pretty famous for it, but you'll also find them on many of the others, including Ipanema and Barra (towards Pepe).

This really only works well if you have a car. You can, if you want, just arrange a BJ in the car, but usually you'll want to go to one of the local motels for an hour or two.

This will cost you probably around $40 for the girl, plus $20 - $30 for the room. (US$ - I converted them).

On Copacabana you can sit in one of the street bars, and the girls will wander around and sit with you - you can sit and chat with them if you want, there is no pressure to pick them up - if they spot a better prospect they will just say goodnight and carry on. can be quite fun! Again, be polite, I have seen a few foreigners just abusing the girls. That's asking for trouble.

2. Escort agencies. There are many agencies who will arrange for girls to come to you, or sometimes meet you at a motel (they prefer not to do this, for safety resons, but you will find some who will do it).

I don't know what the service is like, as I have never done this. Check out www.hotside.com.br to see what I mean.

3. Boates.

These are small clubs, which are pretty blatant about what they do.

They range from the sopisticated - anyone who has spent any time hunting in Brazil will know of Cafe Photo in Sao Paulo, who simply don't let anyone under a good 9 work there (Wow!), to small places with just a few girls.

My personal favourite is Ancora do recreio, which is a little way out of town (about 5 miles past Barra), but really nice and relaxed. They have I guess up to 15 - 20 girls working there, in a slightly scruffy, but perfectly adequate place with a pool, bar and private rooms.

You can go for a beer, and either pratake or not. No pressure. There is a cover charge, but it's not expensive - about $10.

If you want a gilr, you simply go to the cashier with her, pay the price (roughly $50 for an hour) and she will take you to a room. So far I haven't had a bad experience. The girls are all very friendly and enthusiastic, and although I'm not what you'd call a wild pervert, have never said 'no' to anything I want to do (condoms mandatory though, which is good for both of you).

One time I took 2 girls at once . . . Ah, memories!

I'm sure there are more things I can think of, which I'll add if I think of them.

If you have questions, please ask, preferably in the open firum so others can read, or PM me.

Cheers!

RCA Knight

03-03-04, 19:56

Undray,

I have to been to all parts of Brazil. If you like a mid sized fun city, I will have to recommend Floripa to you. It is my favorite city in Brazil. Very safe and has hundreds of beaches and lots and lots of nice ladies. Fortaleza is good for a few days but get boring after few days. Niteroi is basically a big favela. Natal is not a safe city and boring as well. You go check out Florianopolis and you will like it very much. I will go to Brasil again in July in the winter. Go to Floripa a few days to see some friends and then SP to see some more friends, then want to go to Bonito. Always like to visit Bonito for long time.

Undray

03-06-04, 01:37

RCA Knight

Thanks for the advice. I personally, like the mixed girls! The mulatas! I dont want to go to floripa, because I hear that its mostly white chicks. I can have the white chicks here in the USA, but its something about the mulatas that I LOVE.

Anyway, Im gonna try to say between 3-6 months in Brazil. I may go to Fortaleza, how can i obtain a apartment in Fortaleza?

If any of you guys have anymore information for me, I would like to hear it.

Thanks alot

-Dray

Tomb

03-06-04, 23:21

Undray:

There are TONS of flat/apartments in Fortaleza, you can just show up, stay in a hotel for a week (I like Mariana Park) and walk around looking at flats. If you want to look before you go: www.flatshop.com.br. As RCA pointed out, Fortaleza can get boring pretty fast, of course tehre are tons of great beachs up and down the coast. And Floripa is not "mostly white chicks" there are just more, percentagewise than in Rio. personally, for summertime, I'd stay in Floripa, for winter, Fortal. Check out my older reports.

Enjoy!

Tom B.

Undray

03-07-04, 06:35

Tomb,

Thanks for the advice man. You and RCA said that Fortaleza gets old pretty fast..what do you guys mean by that? Do the clubs get old, beaches, things to do...what do you guys mean? Also, out of Floripa and Fortaleza which city has the hottest and more laid back chicks?

Also, which place would I get more for my dollar? Fortaleza or Floripa?

Basically, I want to go to a place in which the crime is low, a place where there are ton of hot chicks, a clean city, and a place in which is least expensive.

Thanks guys

Dray

Also, which of the two cities has a good selection of ladies, for maybe wife material?

Prosal

03-07-04, 16:45

..... "Basically, I want to go to a place in which the crime is low, a place where there are ton of hot chicks, a clean city, and a place in which is least expensive" .....

Undray I heard about miracles in Lourdes but never in Brasil ;-)

About 'tons of hot chicks', unless you're in your 20's, if little older in the best shape of your life, more than reasonably good-looking, perfect samba/pagode/forro dancer and of course perfectly fluent in portugese you have almost NO chance to score a girl in Floripa (except pros of course);

IMHO ......

Cash Works

03-07-04, 23:49

Undray,

If you're going to Brasil for 3-6 months to check it out, why not try a number of different places? I'm not sure how long the Brasil Air Passes are good for, but you may be able to get one and travel around the whole country, stay 2-4 weeks in each city you're interested in checking out, then make your own decision on where best to settle down.

I would start in Manaus, then go clock-wise around the country to Belem, Sao Luis, Fortaleza, Natal, Recife, Maceio, Aracaju, Salvador, Vitoria, Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paolo, Florianopolis and anywhere else that strikes your fancy. If you prefer, feel free to start in the south (Floripa) and do the list backwards. I don't remember how the air passes work, they may not allow you to back track, this is why I suggest starting at one end of the country and work your way around to the other end.

CW

Pimpolho

03-08-04, 12:27

What are the requirements for an USA citizen to get legal residence in Brazil?

There is not a big chance to get a residence authorisation for Gringos apart from you fulfil one of the following requirements:

1. You get a job here. This is in the meantime almost not possible anymore in Brazil. Because the employer has to proof that there is no Brazilian available on the job market for this job.

2. You invest 200 000 US$ in the Brazilian economy. (e.g. you start your own business here in Brazil)

3. If you are a retired person and you transfer your monthly retirement pay (min. 2000 US$ !) to Brazil.

4. You get married with a Brazilian girl. Make here pregnant is not enough!

Até logo

Dr. Pimpolho

Call Me Goo

03-09-04, 03:43

Hey all! Fala gente!

Just wanted to drop a line. I'd love to make a move down to Brazil for an e few years. One to practice my Portuguese (come from a Brazilian family), but also to just get the fuck out of the US for a while and enjoy what the world has to offer.

Anyone have any tips or suggestions for landing an American job that will pay for my extended stay in Brazil? I love Brazil - especially Nordeste, but I'm not about to make a move without a job!

Either way - have a good one fellas!

Cash Works

03-09-04, 06:00

Goo,

When I worked down there right out of college, I just happenned to get the job by being in the right place at the right time - mostly dumb luck! I suppose it helped that I had experience in the type of work I wound up being hired for and that I had been to Brasil as a teenager (spent the summer down there between my Junior & Senior years of high school), I mentioned this in my cover letter & resume and I also mentioned my desire to work overseas. One of the hundreds of companies that I applied to just happenned to have an openning (entry level position) in Brasil and I spent most of the next 2 years down there - mostly in the Nordeste.

You say that you come from a Brasillian family? If you have dual citizenship, then having a Brasillian passport, I think, would be a bonus for potential employers since they wouldn't have to worry about getting a work permit for you (they cost money after all). If you're fluent in Portuguese (both written as well as spoken) you have another reason for a potential employer to send you to work in Brasil.

Unfortunately, at this time, I'm not in a position to tell you what companies to contact. If I knew who to talk to, I'd be trying to get the job myself! My verbal portuguese is quite rusty & my written portuguese is basically non-existant, nothing that a few weeks with a long haired dictionary couldn't fix though.

CW

Undray

03-09-04, 07:21

Hey guys, I'm back again

I'm 95% sure that I'm moving to Fortaleza. I figure I can have fun, enjoy the place..without worrying about getting shot, as in if I would have stayed in Rio.

I will only stay about 3-4 months, but how much US dollars do you guys think I should have in my bank account (the min. amount) that I should have in my account?

Anyone know of any bars,clubs, malls in fortaleza..that I should check out to pic up non-pros?

Thanks guys, and by the way: Bust one for me!

Undray

Fartknocker

03-09-04, 22:03

>What are the requirements for an USA citizen
> to get legal residence in Brazil?

I just got through spending about 4 months living in Cabo Frio, RJ. I was planning to stay longer, but, uh, those bills, ya know! Had to come back to the US and get a job. ;-)

My plan was basically just to stick around on a tourist visa and leave the country every three months or so. A Brazilian friend of mine assured me that there wouldn't be any problem with this. Since I was planning to head back to the States at least four times a year to visit family and friends, I didn't see the need to try for a different visa.

Does anyone know if this method will actually work? I've come to the realization that quite a bit of what my Brazilian pal told me was bullshit, so I'm wondering if this little bit of advice was bogus too.

Fartknocker

03-09-04, 23:08

A lot of you guys are talking about living in the big cities in Brazil. One piece of advice I have for you is not to overlook the smaller cities.

I can think of a lot of great places to live in the US, but New York, LA, and Chicago are not on my list. The reason I don't want to live in these cities are traffic, crime, pollution, and TOO MANY DAMN PEOPLE! As far as I'm concerned, the same drawbacks apply to Rio, Sao Paulo and the other Brazilian cities.

The last four months I spent living in Brazil, I was mostly in Cabo Frio, about 2 1/2 hours drive east of Rio. Small cities usually have less crime, traffic, and pollution. They also have a lower cost of living on day-to-day items (food, rent, beer, etc). The non-pro girls are usually more easily impressed, and the pros charge less.

I'll comment more on the girls, since thats what this forum is all about. If you are actually intrerested in not paying for sex, a smaller city can be easier hunting ground. If you have a car, an apartment to yourself, a television, and some money in your pocket, you greatly outclass 95% of the local 20-something guys that you are competing against. If you think these aren't important in picking up a Brazilian girlfriend, then you know nothing about Brazilian girls. ;-)

You don't need a BMW in a small city. To these chicks a VW Golf is a "carrão." I'm not kidding! A decent, used car that costs only R$25K is a pussy wagon in a small city. Hell, I got dumped by one of my ficantes for a guy who owned a damn motorcycle! A small-town girl would much rather be sleeping with an older, less attractive guy who can take her out of town for some fun than a hot 20-something who is going to take her nowhere but the same old places she's seen all her life.

If you still want to pay for play, small town girls are usually much cheaper than Rio or SP girls. If you are paying over R$100 for a girl in an interior city, you are paying too much. My friends tell me that the going rate for some of the local Cabo Frio girls is about R$60. My buddies who hang with the local pros sometimes get freebies just for the cost of dinner. Believe me, your money goes a long way in the smaller cities in Brazil.

Personally, I never bothered to find out. Inside of 4 months, with very rough Portuguese, this somewhat overweight mid-30's American scored with 8 different chicks, multiple times each, without paying anyting more than the occasional dinner. This is WITHOUT a car, a nice apartment, or really trying very hard.

Anyway, don't pass up the smaller cities in Brazil when you go looking for a place to settle down. Remember that if you settle down in the big city, you actually have to LIVE in the big city when you aren't drinking and whoring. The small cities, IMHO, are more livable, and the big city is usually only a few hours away when you feel the need for something a little more exotic.

Call Me Goo

03-10-04, 02:31

Right on Fartknocker and Cashworks! Looks like great advice. Yup, got the dual citizenship. And I'd definitely agree about the smaller cities.

Looks like I better start sending our resumes! Peace!

Pimpolho

03-10-04, 03:40

Fartknocker:

”My plan was basically just to stick around on a tourist visa and leave the country every three months or so Does anyone know if this method will actually work?”

As a tourist you can stay 90 days in Brazil. If you want to stay more you can extend your visa for another 90 days. You can do this extension in every office of the Policia Federal.

There is no need to leave the country and come back to get another 90 days.

The maximum duration of stay is a total of 180 day per year.

If you overdraw your visa the Polcia Federal will register your name in the “black book”. As a consequence you are not allowed to come to Brazil again or you have at least a lot of trouble. A lot of things are not working here in Brazil but unfortunately in this case they are well organized.

Dr. Pimpolho

Cash Works

03-10-04, 05:14

Fartknocker,

I never made it to Cabo Frio, but always heard good things about it. It'll have to go on my list of places to visit if I ever get back to Brasil.

Visas - I'm hardly an authority, but when I was transferred out of Brasil, the company transferred about 25 other guys at the same time. Some of these guys had been living in Brasil for 5-10 years on work permits, once they were transferred elsewhere, the company didn't bother renewing their work permits, so they had to get tourist visas whenever they went back. Some of them were able to get permanent visas due to wives and kids, but that isn't necessarily an option for everyone. The guys who used the tourist visas would work out of Brasil for 6-8 weeks usually, and then have 3-8 weeks in Brasil for their time off. I occasionally heard about people getting hassled at the airport coming in, but the hassles seemed to always involve large quantities of alcohol that had been consumed during the flight to Brasil so their visa/visits may or may not have been a contributing factor.

I had a problem getting a tourist visa for Brasil once when I was in Venezuela. The vice consule just flat refused to give me a visa because he thought I was heading down there to work. He had looked through my passport and noticed two expired work permits - no amount of discussion could persuade him otherwise. The real ***** of it was that I was planning on buying an apartment & this scared me off - I could just see dumping $30K on a place in Fortaleza & then never be allowed to go back due to visa problems. To make matters worse, 4 years later, I was working with an American who lived in Fortaleza - he told me that the apartment that I was going to buy for $30K had just sold for $150K!!! I think that was the only time I have ever wanted to truly beat the crap out of a public official.

I read somewhere on one of the Brasil boards last month (I think), where somebody was suggesting to somebody else that they get a "5 year multiple entry visa". It was the first time I had ever heard of this type of visa, but it would be worth investigating. If you live anywhere near Washington, DC you should drop by the Brasillian Consulate and tell them you're planning on spending a lot of time in their country - they should be able to fix you up with the appropriate visa - it's what they do after all. I dropped by there a number of years ago and was helped by an absolutely beautiful young lady, unfortunately, I was with my (then) girlfriend, so I wasn't able to talk about anything except visas.

Undray

03-10-04, 07:19

Hey Guys,

Do I have a higher chance of scoring non-pros in Fortaleza, since I am a black american?

Let me know what you guys think, because Im 95% sure I'm moving to Fortaleza sometime this year.

Thanks

Undray

Java Man

03-10-04, 09:29

Fartknocker:
How fortunitous!
I'm headed to Rio mar 25. I wanna spend sometime in Cabo Frio. I hear it's similar to Buzios, but cheaper. Can you recommend a Pousada?
Also is there a Banco do Brasil branch with a cash station there?
Actually can you write a trip report about it? I don't think it's ever been reported on.
Thanks

Testure

03-10-04, 14:42

Fartknocker,

I am living in São Paulo right now and for the moment on a tourist visa (or whatever to call it as we Europeans don't need a visa). As far as I knopw you are only allowed to stay for 6 months a year as a tourist and you don't have to go out of the country after three months to prolong your stay. You just go to Polícia Federal. After 6 months however you will have to find another solution. Either marry or (don't know if this works for Americans as you are being more thoroughly registered here now with fingerprints and photographs) just loose your passport and get an emergency one, when you have to leave the country and they can't track how long you have been here when you are leaving.

Suna

03-10-04, 23:13

Any thoughts on campinas as a place to live I really liked it there.

J Wadd

03-11-04, 00:34

Good forum, guys. I've been meaning to contribute for a long time. I go back and forth between living in a big city and living in a smaller one. I've been to about 30 cities in Brasil, including all of those listed in the great post of below (except Vitoria):

"Manaus, then go clock-wise around the country to Belem, Sao Luis, Fortaleza, Natal, Recife, Maceio, Aracaju, Salvador, Vitoria, Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paolo, Florianopolis."

The north is a lot poorer, for sure. But the women (IMO) are a little more "Brasilian." The problem with those northern cities is that they have a little of that post-USSR E. Europe feel: Cinder-block housing, poorpoorpoor, not a lot of vibrant culture, etc. They don't look anything like late 80s E. Europe, but (to me) they have a similar type of sorrow. Dunno.

I grew up in Hawaii, so the beaches aren't that big of a deal to me (though they certainly are beautiful). What's important to me in a city is culture -- nightlife, clubs (non-sex), music (trance, bossa nova, jazz, etc.), great restaurants, etc. The northern cities don't have this, and Flor and Curitiba don't (really) either.

Maybe a "small" large city like Belo Horizonte is a good alternative. I've never been there, however.

For me, it's a choice between Rio and S.P. (with S.P. have a slight edge). I've never found S.P. to be that bad.

For those of you kicking the tires about moving down to Brasil, the first thing to do is to get a CPF number -- attainable via a Banco do Brasil (or a Caixa Econonmica, depending on the city). Take the slip they give you, and then head to the gov. office they direct you to, and hand it in. The gov. office will mail you your CPF slip in about 2 weeks. One drawback is that you have to provide them an address to which to send the slip. This is the process I had to go through in Recife (the gov. office was in Recife Antigua). Very easy.

With this tax number you have one big advantage -- and that's viable legal leverage. No CPF and ownership (if legal) is tentative -- or so I've been told.

Citizenship (etc.) is a little more tricky. Get a lawyer and figure out the best way for you. I'm not sure how important it is, though. If you're on the 5 year-6/month visa, just leave the country and reenter, and you're legal for another 6 months. This is one way around that dilemma until you solve your visa situation.

Banking might be a little easier. There're many Citibanks all across Brasil. Perhaps an account intiated in Europe or the U.S. is a viable entity down here. Not sure. It should be, though. I'm not sure that opening a Brasil bank account is that good of an idea. Too much fluctuation. Remember Argentina? Dunno. Local checks would be nice, though.

Can anyone dispel the rumor about foreing ownership of beachfront property being impossible? I've heard people weigh in on both sides. Dunno.

What else? Let me think a little more.

Happy Hunting and what about Belo?,
JW

Fartknocker

03-11-04, 04:28

>Fartknocker:
>How fortunitous!
>I'm headed to Rio mar 25. I wanna spend sometime in Cabo
>Frio. I hear it's similar to Buzios, but cheaper. Can you
>recommend a Pousada?
>Also is there a Banco do Brasil branch with a cash station there?
>Actually can you write a trip report about it? I don't think it's
>ever been reported on.
>Thanks

Hmm. I'm not sure this is really the right forum for me to post a trip report for Cabo Frio, especially since I never used the services of any of the local pros.

In short:

Buzios is completely different -- more upscale, more nightlife, more touristy. Its only 30 minutes away by car, so you can visit both if you are in the area.

I don't know any pousadas -- but there are a ton of them all over town.

There is a Banco do Brasil downtown. I always used the Bradesco caixa electronica at the ABC Barateiro near the bus station. This ATM takes all US credit and debit cards as far as I can tell.

There really isn't much to tell about Cabo Frio. You have Praia do Forte (Fort Beach) on one side of town and the canal district (with most of the better bars/night clubs in town) on the other. If you can find these two spots, then you have found 80% of everything worth finding in Cabo Frio.

Hope this helps.

Cutting Edge

03-13-04, 01:13

Undray, a word of advice, i've been to forteleza and to sum it up...

Small beach town ==> direct 'sex tourist flights' from Italy ==> too many gringos in town looking for pay for play ==> therefore non-pros wouldn't be seen dead with a gringo. Of all the places I've been in Brasil, this one was pretty unfriendly.

Also, beware of non-pro stories on these boards, I've meet over 100 gringos in Brasil and I know of only 4 that scored TRUE non-pros. By TRUE I mean girls with no history of sex work. Of those 4, all were under 35, all in good shape, 2 spoke fluent Portuguese. Don't be dishearted by my stats as 95/100 gringos seem to get no further than Copacabana or other red light areas.

You need to find locations with very few gringos about, Brasilians are pretty snobby and most hate to be thought of as a piranha, hence the difficulties in the touristy areas.

CBGBConnisur

03-13-04, 02:30

Is Brazil even a safe place to live? Honestly from what I have heard beyond the beaches and tourist areas the country is from the words of a friend "fucked up". I'm really not too sure if I want to live in a country where they can slit your throat for $2.

Cash Works

03-13-04, 06:04

JWadd,

Do you know it the CPF (CFP?) numbers ever expire? An eternity ago (1986, I think), when I was working down there, the Policia Federal had all the estrangeros (foreigners) re-register their work permits (I think folks with permanent visas had to do this as well). Part of the process was to get a CPF. I actually went through the re-registration process twice, once on my own, with the help of a Brasillian friend who just happenned to be a Lawyer, the second time was with my company, who were convinced that the employees would have screwed it up if they tried to do it themselves (I didn't complain due to getting 3 day's off in the middle of my hitch which counted as work days). The funny thing about it is that both times, I went to the Policia Federal in Natal & they remembered me the second time, because the commandant was good friends with my Lawyer buddy & he was walking around with us the first time I was there. So I may have two numbers! The problem is, I have no idea what either number might be, so if I were to apply for one again, I may wind up with yet a third CPF, unless they expire after a certain period of inactivity.

Maybe I should take a trip to DC - they may have another cutie working in the visa department at the consulate.

CW

Fartknocker

03-13-04, 14:21

"Also, beware of non-pro stories on these boards, I've meet
over 100 gringos in Brasil and I know of only 4 that scored
TRUE non-pros. By TRUE I mean girls with no history of sex
work. Of those 4, all were under 35, all in good shape, 2 spoke
fluent Portuguese. Don't be dishearted by my stats as 95/100
gringos seem to get no further than Copacabana or other red
light areas."

Yeah, I get the impression that a lot of guys think the non-pros are going to fall into their laps just because they are Rich Tourists. Picking up a Brazilian non-pro is the same as picking up a non-pro back home in your own country. If you can't manage to pick up a chick back home, you are probably going to strike out with Brazilian girls, too.

Basically you have a 0% chance of picking up a non-pro if you don't speak any Portuguese. There just aren't that many girls who speak English, and the one's that do have their pick of any number of foreign tourists. You also have very little chance if you are only in the country for a few weeks on vacation. One of the first questions I was generally asked by the girls I dated in Brazil was "How long are you staying?" When I could answer two months or more, I had no problems. Once my time got down to weeks, most of the new girls I met weren't that interested.

That being said, Brazilian girls are still some of the easiest lays on the planet. I usually date Brasileiras even when I'm in the States, just because I no longer have the patience for putting up with American girls. Learn your Portuguese, guys! It's worth it.

Rezza

03-13-04, 18:08

Fratknocker,

I met some students in porto seguro and banged one of them the beach - one of the best sexual experiences of my life!

I don't speak the lingo and all I did was dance and drink with her in a club a little bit and away we go. It all depends on personal experience and what chances you get with non-pro action IMHO.

It helps if you get out of Rio and the hardcore scene and experience some other smaller tourist town. The girls there are always happy to meet gringos and to give up their pussy just like girls who go away on holiday in Europe :-)

Rezza

J Wadd

03-14-04, 00:07

Cash Works: I'm sorry, I don't know for sure. A Dutch guy I met in Recife still had his original CPF number for 15 years now. SO if I had to guess, I'd say they don't expire(?).

As for picking up regular garotas -- well, it's not that difficult, either. Try your handle in a smaller town. Go to the discos and mingle. I score occasionally, but it's an all-night effort. Point is, it's better and easier to score with the sex industry girls. They're often (ironically) the prettiest, too.

JW

Panman

03-14-04, 03:45

I lived in Brazil for many years and prefer the laid back northeastern capital cities by the beach. They not very far from eachother so you can always go visit another place if you get bored. Quality of life there could be very good if not better than bigger southeastern cities. Thats because life in Brazil is all about your economic status and if you got enough cash to live in a decent neighboohood, own a vehicle, and spend on clubs and restaurants, thats living large in Brazil. Trust me, feels great having the life of a king couple months a year in comparison to my 12 hour a day shifts in the military at the bottom of the food chain. Considering the fact cost of living in any capital south of Brasilia is by all means much greater I really dont care for some of the negatives JWadd mentioned before. Another great thing is the weather up there, never get below 25 C, only raining seasons which still bring sunny days in between. I agree with Cutting Edge on avoiding Fortaleza to settle unless you can bring some fluent portuguese to show you're not the everyday foreigner looking for some ass. Salvador and Recife have over 1million people and more dangerous so outsiders should apply some caution not to stand out, however they are fun places with lots to see and do. Joao Pessoa and Maceio have very nice beaches. Just my opnion, everyone will have some different ones and i respect that.

Fartknocker

03-14-04, 14:55

JWadd falou,
"As for picking up regular garotas -- well, it's not that difficult, either. Try your handle in a smaller town. Go to the discos and mingle. I score occasionally, but it's an all-night effort. Point is, it's better and easier to score with the sex industry girls. They're often (ironically) the prettiest, too."

I agree that when on vacation its easier and more fun just to stick with pros and forget trying to score with regular girls. However, if you plan to live in Brazil this gets to be an expensive hobby.

When I visited Brazil as a tourist, I thought nothing of dropping $$$ on garotas. After a month or two actually living in the country, I started to see how much I could buy with that same money. To a tourist with a first-world income R$ 200 doesn't seem like a whole lot of money, but its a lot of cash in Brazil. When I was living in Cabo Frio, my out-of-pocket spending cash usually wasn't more than R$500 PER MONTH! This included groceries, eating/drinking out, and the occasional touristy entertainment. I wasn't trying to conserve -- this is just what I wound up spending.

The non-pros I hooked up with cost me almost nothing -- the occasional dinner, small gifts, a few beers on the beach etc. Usually they were pretty happy just to be well-fucked.

Sure if you are looking for same-night sex it can be frustrating -- a lot of them don't give it up till the SECOND date ;-). But if you are actually living in the area, why is this a problem? I usually had two or three girls I was working on at any given time, and every week that went by one of them would finally give it up to me. So I had a regular supply of new ass, plus one or two steady lays.

My advice: if you live in Brazil, stick to the non-pros. Paying for sex in Brazil is like paying for sand on the beach. Use the $$$ to upgrade your bachelor pad.

Cash Works

03-14-04, 15:36

JWadd,

Thanks for the info. If I ever get my business sorted out here in the USA, I think I'll have to make a trip to DC and visit the consulate.

Straight chicks or non-pros:

This is a topic that I always found interesting, not only in Brasil, but anywhere. Depending on what you're after, a wife, a girlfriend that you wouldn't mind introducing to your mother, or a quick lay, it all boils down to your perspective. I was never out to get married, but it almost happened once. I'm sure we've all heard the argument that in many cases, you wind up saving money when going doing the P4P rather than the "free" sex - for the "free" sex, you have to do the wining/dining/clubbing, etc. and there's always a chance you won't get laid after all the effort. P4P cuts through all the crap and you get straight to the good stuff.

While I was living in Brasil, I was usually going after semi-pros, or program girls (garota de programma). I've seen the occasional mention of program girls in the Rio section of the forum, but the brief description sounded more like a call girl than what I experienced when I was there. In Fortaleza, in the mid to late 1980's, program girls would work in other cities (Rio, Manaus, Belem, etc.) as pros for a month or two, save their money, then live in Fortaleza until their money ran out. Some of these girls owned small businesses in Fortaleza (one I was with for a while had a some clothing stands in Centro that she rarely worked at herself, but would get a cut of the take since she owned the tables) or had part time/casual jobs (one worked at a dental clinic but she let it slip once that part of her duties included servicing the dentists on occasion). Most of these girls were uneducated and probably after a husband, but they rarely came right out and said it.

Non-Pros. I had a couple of girlfriends back then who I'm pretty sure had never been pros. They were either college students or had jobs that required at least some education. They varied in levels of "niceness", but they were all looking for a non-Brasillian husband. I found the college students to be generally nicer than the ones who were working (probably due to not having to worry about making the rent, etc). I once dated a Varig ticket agent for a couple of days - sweet as could be when she was in her Varig uniform, total monster when she was in her street clothes - treated waiters as something worse than scum. I almost married a college student - she was always the sweetest thing, but things just didn't work out, partly due to me not wanting to be tied down (I was only 24 at the time) but mostly due to her family, who were convinced that I was the "rich gringo" who was going to support them (I was making less than USD $30K at the time).

I had a friend who picked up a girl at a bar in Copacabana, paid her something like $50 for all night (can't remember the name of the bar, not Help, I'm pretty sure it was a strip join). In the morning, she said she had to go to "Brunch" and wanted to know if he would join her. She told the taxi where to go & it was a private, walled compound with a large house (mansion?) - turned out to be the girls family. She would hang out in the Copacabana bars with the pros and accept cash for sex, not because she needed the money, but because it turned her on. I never met her, but some other friends did & they verified his story, he wound up spending a week with her, but never told me if he had to continue paying for sex.

I have friends who wound up getting married to Brasillians (as well as women from other countries). Some are still married, others are divorced, some are still in Brasil, others have moved to other countries & some have gone back to Brasil after living abroad. They all have kids, most of the wives were knocked up before they got married, some weren't. Their wives are definitely a mixed bunch. Some were pros, some were programas, others were non-pros. I can't say that any of them put up with very much crap from their wives, but the ones that are still married are willing to "bend" a little. The point is, their wives were all Brasillian women, who were looking to hook up with a non-Brasillian man.

CW

Undray

03-14-04, 22:56

Fellas

Can you guys tell me about Natal, Brazil. I've read your stories about Fortaleza, being a "sex-cty" I really don't want that. I want to go to a decent place in which its safe, hot-warm weather and girls mixed with black, white, indian.

I've heard that Natal is a boring city can anyone clarify this for me?

Thanks guys.

Undray

Cutting Edge

03-16-04, 01:53

On the matter of costs Non - pro VS Pro, I'd say a TRUE non pro is much cheaper. Your typical TRUE nonpro is very economical and will actually go out of her way to help you save money. This is the main difference between the TRUE and the PSEUDO non-pro. The PSUEDO non-pro will always try and steer you to towards the mall and drag you in shops, try things on etc then sulk when you won't buy her everything she touches. These sort of girls WILL cost you more than a PRO who just gets her hourly rate and says goodbye.

All the TRUE non pro's I've meet in Rio have been out of towners, either on holiday or going there to study. The trouble with these girls is that you don't know if they are leading a double life(ie married/namorado). One girl I meet there(a student)from BH went to extremes to hide me when I went to visit her in her home city. It was so bad she wanted us to stay/live in the hotel room and have food sent up.

In a smaller town, a girl has to be upfront with you as there is nowhere to hide. I always make a point now of visiting her home, speaking with relations very early on as I've got tired of timewasters. The smaller towns also don't have the problems of the street kids, drug wars etc and you'll soon make friends with the locals.

If you go to Brasil to find a long term partner you need to find a smaller town away from the gringo areas. You also need to decide if you need the company of gringos, I think part of the reason many stay in Copa is that there is a constant supply of buddies.

Undray, what you need to do is travel around first and see how you like places, Brasil can be a funny place, something that works for one guy may not work for another. Some on the board rate Porto Seguro, however I found it one of the worst places for girl action and got called 'gringo' more times in 1 week than 1 year in other areas. I was there during carnaval , maybe this made the difference?

J Wadd

03-16-04, 06:21

Natal: Small, regional and boring after about 10 days. Good sex scene for its size, though.

Don't worry about safety so much! You'll be fine no matter how much you're worth if your low-key and easy going.

Anyone know anything about Belo Horizonte over a long-term stay?

TIA,
JWadd

Jonny D

03-16-04, 13:58

You know, this language thing might be a red herring. You don't need fluent Portuguese to chase girls.

I've found that (not just in Brazil) learning a few things in any language is very disarming. It's good manners, which we know always goes a long way.

First thing you have to learn is to say sorry, I don't speak xxxx - in Brazil, 'sinto muito, eu não fala Portuguese' more or less phonetic. I find it's much better than bluntly asking someone 'Do you speak English?'. Well, try that with a Frenchman if you want to know what I mean - even of they do, they'll say no.

You'll find people will bend over backwards to help you, and in fact the more you fuck it up the better - if your Portuguese is terrible, they won't worry so much about their English being poor!

A few others (I'm sure these have already been posted) simple stuff. Pronounciation if not phonetic in brackets:

Bom dia (in Rio, bon Jia) - good morning
Boa tarde (Rio = tarje) good afternoon
Obrigado, if YOU are male. Obrigada, if female - thank you
Voce tem . . . . = do you have (as in shop)
Voce quer uma bebida? - would you like a drink?
Oi - kinda generic, means 'hi', but also can mean 'pardon?'
Desculpe - sorry (descoop)
da licença - excuse me (lisensa - the ç always sounds like an s)
Fala devagar por favor - please speak slowly.

I find another useful one is to say 'to gringo' (pr. toe). It's a slightly self mocking way to say I don't understand you. Means (obviously I guess) I'm a foreigner. Normally gets a smile, which is what you're aiming for!

When all else fails, Spanish if you have any might help you, although I have to say it's not going to help you understand Portuguese. This is a hard language to learn, took me 5 years, and I was bilingual with French already.

Happy hunting!

Cash Works

03-17-04, 00:45

thanks for the good advice johnny d. especially the point about using spanish. many portuguese words are similar to spanish, but you should never assume that speaking spanish will be understood by a brasillian. many brasillians speak or understand spanish, but it is rather presumptuous to just start speaking spanish & expect people to understand you - you are, after all, in a portuguese speaking country.

i have to agree with you for the most part. if you go around expecting people to speak your language, when you're in their country, you're going to annoy at least a few of the locals. this is the case pretty much everywhere in the world, not just france. i was once discussing this with a brasillian friend, who said that he never had problems getting french people to speak to him in english while he was in france - he would say something like, "excuse me, i don't speak french, do you speak portuguese?" he said a very high percentage would say "no, i don't speak portuguese, but i do speak english."

i think that speaking very little portuguese can actually help in picking up non pros (pros as well) if you can make it obvious that you're trying to learn the language. i think it's part of the maternal instinct or something - teaching communication skills. most women are genetically programmed to teach babies how to speak, they seem to transfer this predisposition to adults who make an effort to learn. we used to refer to these women as, long haired dictionaries. they can actually make learning a language a lot of fun!

i spent about 2 years living in brasil. by the time i left, i was able to carry a conversation with pretty much any brasillian i came into contact with, most were polite enough to not scold me for my rude language, most of my teachers had little, if any education - i learned to speak street portuguese from the girls & other folks you meet on the streets (portuguese da rua) and fisherman's portuguese (portuguese do pescador) since i worked with a number of guys from small fishing villages. i never had any formal courses in portuguese and i never really tried to write it, i was usually able to discern the meaning of written portuguese, but would have to consider myself functionally illiterate. one thing i always thought interesting though, is that while i was able to converse with most brasillians i came in contact with, i had great difficulty in following the dialogue on the television (news programs, etc) or on the radio. this was, i'm sure, partly due to the speed at which they spoke, but was also good for reminding me that i had a lot more to learn.

cw

J Wadd

03-17-04, 02:38

Good points, Jonny D. I've never really needed that much Portuguese to have all the fun (both paid and free) I've ever needed with every strata of garota in almost every part of Brasil. You're right, man: all you ever have to do is get them to smile.

Ahhh, counting the days 'til I return,
JWadd

Fartknocker

03-17-04, 06:52

Jonny D said:
"When all else fails, Spanish if you have any might help you, although I have to say it's not going to help you understand Portuguese. This is a hard language to learn, took me 5 years, and I was bilingual with French already."

Well, I've done it both ways. The first time I was in Brasil, I had to rely entirely on my Brazilian buddy to help me out. After I learned a bit of Portuguese I found it infinitely easier to score regular chicks. (--and to score better looking ones. My Brazilian pal is the sort of fucking dog that will always try to score with the best looking chicks in the bunch and leave me with the ugly ones)

For me it took about 6 months of studying solo back in the States to get where I needed to be. I used Rosetta Stone every night for about 1/2 hour. The RS software is easy enough to where it isn't a chore to use. I actually looked forward to studying.

When I actually got to Brasil and tried speaking Portuguese I was really bad, but the studying built enough of a foundation that I picked it up rapidly. After my second week there I spoke well enough to score my first non-pro. After four months in the country, I was spending whole weekends with one girl or another and speaking nothing but Portuguese the whole time. I still can't understand rapidly-spoken Portuguese, and I still have a very limited vocabulary, but I can manage to get across just about anything I want to if the person I'm talking to is patient enough.

Anyway, this forum is for people interested in LIVING in Brazil. My opinion, for what its worth, is that anyone living in Brazil and not learning Portuguese is worst sort of lazy-assed coward. Its not that hard to learn enough to hold a basic conversation. Half an hour a day isn't much of a sacrifice considering how much pussy knowing the language can get you.

Prosal

03-17-04, 10:23

About language and regular girls :

- Regular (non mercenary) Brasilian girls can have sex whenever they want to with Brasilian guys, they aren't desperate enough to go with a non portugese-talking gringo with who they will not be able to communicate.

-Regular (non mercenary) Brasilian girls are not impressed at all with the fact that a man is a gringo BUT will be impressed with the fact that a gringo talk the language and know about Brasilian culture, Brasilian books, Brasilian films, Brasilian theater, Brasilian music : being able to talk about the latest hits of Capital Initial or the latest films of Walter Salles will give access to the kind of girls who wouldn't be interested only one second by a foreigner stupidly answering 'sou gringo' to every sentence he hears and knowing nothing about the country he visits.

-Regular (non mercenery) Brasilian girls need time to discover and cultivate relationships, and most will only do with a fluent portugese speaker.

Jonny D

03-18-04, 15:39

Pro,

Yes, I don't suggest you just repeat the same thing over and over again - you would look like an idiot.

And I think the idea of learning Fluent Portuguese and steeping yourself in Brazilian culture for a few years is a good one - for sure that way you can approach the more cerebral females with more confidence. A very noble plan indeed.

But I was really pitching my advice a little lower than that. We're talking about someone on a 2 week vacation / business trip who wants to make contact in a bar, or even a massage parlour.

For that, I think your plan might be a little long winded, but you know - whatever blows your hat back dude! I am definitely not saying don't learn the language if you have the opportunity, but many people DON'T have the opportunity, so my advice is for them.

To be honest, speaking fluent Portuguese and being up to date on the latest Novela doesn't really seem to improve my score in proportion to the effort. Some may have different experience. That's why life is so interesting, huh?

Fartknocker

03-18-04, 18:27

Pro falou,
"- Regular (non mercenary) Brasilian girls can have sex whenever they want to . . .

-Regular (non mercenery) Brasilian girls need time to discover and cultivate relationships, and most will only do with a fluent portugese speaker . . ."

I'd have to disagree with both of these statements.

First of all, I've met a number of quite attractive Brazilian women who don't have sex as much as they would like -- particularly 30-something women with kids. Often they don't want anything to do with young single Brazilian guys (and their bullshit), and they don't want to be a second woman to an older married guy. A charming single foreigner is just what the doctor ordered.

Second, I maintain that Brasilian girls, "mercenary" or not, are the easiest lays on the planet. I have yet to date a Brasileira that didn't give it up by the second or third date. I am by no means fluent in Portuguese, but with a very rough conversational ability in the laguage, I never had any trouble "cultivating relationships" (also known as "getting a garota in the sack").

I agree with Johnny D that shooting for fluentcy in the language is not worth the effort if your goal is scoring poontang. However, I think taking the time to learn how to make basic conversation DOES pay off hansomely. Knowing 20% of the language, you'll get 80% of the benefit.

Prosal

03-18-04, 19:59

JD : "Yes, I don't suggest you just repeat the same thing over and over again - you would look like an idiot" ....."We're talking about someone on a 2 week vacation / business trip who wants to make contact in a bar, or even a massage parlour."

Thanks from the tip, Mr 12 posts, and as you're on the board since one month, my own tip should be that you read more carefully the purposes of the threads before you argue and then you'll see that this one is about "LIVING IN BRASIL", this having NOTHING to do with "someone on a two weeks vacation who wants to make contacts with GDPs in bars or massage parlors" ;

As i said on this post which was about regulars Brasilian girls, most of them are not impressed at all by the fact that a man is a gringo, and my humble tips were for guys ( not for bright playboys as it seems you are) who'd like to have better access to 'patricinhas', and who'd like to date this kind of normal girls who would NEVER go with the stereotypical gringo .

So go lower on groundless flames and don't include the word 'idiot' in posts ; I could do so but i won't ;

Fartknocker, you're right about 30 something Brasilian women, some are sometimes desesperate about having sex : but IMO, most (and i think that's also true for younger girls) could go with a gringo because they find the guy 'interesting', and not necessary because they find the guy 'good looking' (with of course some exeptions for playboys like Mr JD) ;

Anyway, when i posted in this particular thread about what is (once more, IMHO) necessary (quite good portugese, interest and knowledge in the culture, ect ..) for 'cultiving relationship' with a regular Brasilian girl, i was talking about 'cultiving relationship' and not necessary about 'getting a garota in the sack'. I'm sure you understand the difference

Cheers

Jonny D

03-19-04, 19:32

Yes pro, you're right. This is about living in Brazil, but I was trying to be helpful to those in the thread who don't.

The fact I have 12 posts really only means I try to think before I post. I have been a member for about a year, actually. I don't really see the relevance - are you saying that this makes what I say less true?

But if you want to start a flaming match, which despite your disingenuous assurances that you don't, you clearly do want to, I will point out that what you said may only be your personal experience.

I've lived here for 5 years, I have never seen in this country or any other anything like what you describe.

Perhaps the only place like that is Japan, where the women do indeed tend to prefer their own nationality as sex partners.

I guess it is like I said - a few manners go a long way in any circumstances. It has served me well, and maybe explains your lack of success with the normally boutifully accessible Brazilian women. You should try it.

Good day to you sir.

Cutting Edge

03-22-04, 02:35

JD;

If anybody believes saying 'Soy gringo" is going to get them laid, they must have spent all there time outside Help. Any Brasilian with greater than two brain cells will have already realised that you are a gringo. Outside of that area, you are going nowhere unless lady luck is smiling that day. Its borderline racism to believe that ANY gringo is better than EVERY Brasiliero in the eyes of Brasilieras. How strange that you call termas, massage parlours after living in Brasil for 5 years.

After 5 years there, I think you would realise that you have to make friends with their friends and family as well for things to work. Saying 'soy gringo' Ad infinitum' is taking you anywhere.

As Pro mentioned as well as others, you need the language to fend off male Brasilian guys in the early stages. Often, when my Portuguese was crap, some guy would always want to help translate(really he wanted to steal her from under my nose or just screw things up like telling the girl I thought she was a GDP), now I'm close to fluent, its the other way around.

Brasilians generally go out in mixed groups, my tactic was to start talking with the guys in a group first then sneaking in under the radar and start chatting with the chicks. It makes things a lot easier than just going in like a sledge hammer on the prettiest chick in the group(which usually gets you nowhere).

Jonny D

03-22-04, 13:51

Not sure why I'm getting hammered like this.

If you read what I say in context, then it's not quite as stupid as you make it out to be. I'm not suggesting you walk up to every chick saying 'I'm a Gringo'. If I'm talking to somebody, and am having trouble hearing what they're saying, I might say it - like I said, it's self mocking, and quite disarming. I say it to guys as well.

But I think I've managed to tap into a vein of flamers here. I think this pointless abuse adds nothing to the argument. I shall take what works for me, and leave you guys to do it your own way.

Happy hunting guys!

Double

03-23-04, 22:09

I have a question. What does it cost to rent an apartment on a month to month basis in a nice and safe area? Can this be accomplished without a bank account in Brazil on a cash basis, and with little paper work or hassle?

Thanks

J Wadd

03-24-04, 00:45

2-300USD/month, depending on the specifics (this is the minimum range). And yes, it can be done without any of the things/hassles you mentioned.

JW

Fartknocker

03-24-04, 03:28

Weellll, how much an apartment costs depends on a whole bunch of things. Number one, where. Number two, what. Number three, when.

To give an example, a simple one bedroom apartment in Cabo Frio will run R$ 300 - 350 with a lease. If you are renting in the off season the owner might lease it to you for about twice that if you just want a month.

However, if you are renting during the summer (Jan - Mar), the price goes way up. If you are renting during Carnaval, you might pay ten times more. (No, I'm not joking)

So you need to explain where, what and when to get a decent answer.

Prosal

03-24-04, 11:07

A European friend who owns a restaurant in Sao Paulo, in the Jardims area, rent a nice 200 sq.m apartment rua A. Lobbo, the very upmarket part of South SP, and pays around 3000 reals/month.

BTW, JW, this lucky guy goes almost EVERY night in Love Story !!!

Kenn

03-24-04, 11:58

Ok, here is what I know about renting apts. in the Rio area.
If you want to rent long term (a 30 month lease is the law) you will most likely need a Fiador (co-signer). Almost every real estate broker will require one. The rentals laws here are so bad that it could take an owner over 1 year to evict someone for non payment ... that is why the require a fiador. You might get lucky dealing with the owner directly and get by with a 3 month deposit but that is not normally how it works.....

As for the costs, when you read an add in the paper it only gives the rent, you will also be required to pay the condo fees and taxes as well. So if an add reads 800.reais a month for a 1 bedroom apt. you can figure on about 200.reais for condo fees and another 50.reais a month for taxes.. so it is now 1,050.reais a month.

if you want to read some adds for rentals try here........
http://classificados.oglobo.com.br/retranca.asp

Jonny D

03-24-04, 19:44

Kenn is correct on all of that.

I can give you some specific numbers for Barra too, which are a little different.

A 2 bed penthouse apartment (cobertura) will cost roughly 2,500 reais / month, plus around 1,000 in condo fees - the fully serviced places are much heavier on these fees. That's around US$1,200 / month at the moment. This would be something like Alfa Barra, if you can Google it.

A 1 bed lower floor place would be around R$1,500, plus maybe 800 condo.

There are also houses for rent, not much more expensive - a good 4 bed place somewhere like Rio Mar (about 10 mins from the beach), will go for around R$3,500 - 4,000 / month, with much lower condo fees, about R$250. Not much difference in the end.

US$ 2- 3000, as mentioned elsewhere, will get you something pretty spectacular. You can do OK here (don't know about other areas) for a lot less.

Just out of interest, the house you rent for R$4,000 would cost roughly R$500,000 to buy, that's about US$175,000

Your problem when renting will be the fiador. You will also find that most of the agents (illegally) try to charge you a one month 'document' fee. Make sure you discuss that before you close the deal! Bear in mind they are already charging the owner fees, so don't listen to their 'my kids will starve' bullshit, they're just ripping you off.

Short terms lets can be done - most of the aparthotels will rent by the week, but as Kenn mentioned, you'll probably need a deposit.

J Wadd

03-25-04, 00:48

Every night to Love Story, eh? I've probably met or bumped into him then. Counting the days 'til I return...

JW

Rio Nut

03-29-04, 07:09

Yes, the report by Fartknocker is the most accurate one that I have found.

You see, I have lived in Brazil for many months at a time, and in 6-7 months during my last stay, I had sex with 2 prostitutes.

The rest (about 9 girls) were all regular girls, I met their families, would pick them up after school or work, take vacations in their family farms in the interior of the state, have house parties with their friends, etc. so I was 100% sure they were not prostitutes.

A few of them really did not care that I was a foreigner. In fact, I know they would never leave their homes and leave the country, and prefer to live in a small dirty house than live abroad in a fancy one.

But what is very important for these girls is that you are a stable man with a good job, living in Brazil, and interested in a secure relationship. Unlike a lot of propoganda, looks and age are also important for girls. If you do not have looks, you must be able to seduce with words. That is where portuguese is important.

So a car, an apartment, some money to spend on them to take them out for drinks and dinner, and good portuguese is all you need. I never dated these girls more than 1-2 weeks without getting sex.

For older men, I would recommend the northeast, where it is very common and accepted for young girls to marry older men. For example, my girlfriend, while this is extreme, was only 16 when she married a 45 year old brazilian. They got divorced after only 2 years though.

But if you want to date young patricinhas hotties, unless you are very very handsome and young, you must speak portuguese well! Think about it, if you are boring and can barely communicate, why would a woman of any nationality want to be with you? Well, Brazilian girls are no different. They cheat, they get jealous, they play different men, they *****, they whine, and yes, they will be domineering and try to control the man if she can.

So please do not put Brazilian girls on a pedestal. I love them because they are nice to sleep with and have as girlfriends, but really, have no special characteristics that make them better wives than others.

Well okay, actually they are at least better than American women, who I found quite picky without really deserving of such pickiness.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to add standard capitalization throughout the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using the "chat room" style of writing with no capital lettering. Thanks!

Darkseid

03-31-04, 19:07

I agree that learning Portugese is very important in picking up ANY girl from any nationality. I only started picking up regular chicks AFTER I learned my portugese from capoeira class. And the fact that I am a gringo that does capoeira also makes me stand out from the other gringos that come to the country and don't speak Portugese. They are easier to pick up than American chicks though IF you speak their language, or else you will have to search for one that speaks english from Barra de Tijuca (good luck finding those). I have however, dealt with the worst of the American women, the ones in the tri-state areas since I am from there. I loved my short half year stay in Brazil and appreciate Brazillian women many times more after meeting those bitchy monsters in New York. I even have a better time picking up chicks in the Midwest or west coast than at the East coast. However, Brazillian women still beat them in hospitality. Like any woman, Brazillian women like to be treated, listened to and like to have fun. If you are cheap and boring, then expect to go terma hopping.

Uninfun

04-08-04, 21:21

Just a question about specifics:

1. Anybody know how much a 2 bedroom condo in Rio might cost (in either Reis of US dollars);

2. If not Rio, how bout other places near a beach.

3. What's the average cost of living per month going to run (not including other female activities).

Fartknocker

04-11-04, 05:27

Uninfun,

Cost of living in Brazil is whatever you want to make it. Many single Brazilians manage to live decently on two salaries. ($R 480 / $160 USD per month). To do this you need to split a small one-bedroom with a roomate, cook your own food (mostly beans and rice), ride the bus, and drink nothing but Nova Schin out of the can. (Yuck!)

Once you "go native" and stop partying your ass off and doing touristy stuff, you'll probably find $R 3,000 - 4,000 per month is more than you can spend. For that kind of money, you can have a decent, small apartment to yourself, drive a "carro popular," eat out a lot, have your own phone and cable TV, pay someone to clean and wash laundry for you, and generally have a pretty good time.

On the other hand, if you insist on living the high life, you can spend just as much -- or more -- living in Brazil as you do in the US or Europe.

Striker

04-18-04, 02:23

Does anyone have ideas/suggestions on finding a job in Brazil? (Am assuming
Sao Paulo). Haven't found decent Brasilian job websites. What should a guy's expectations be for salary and opportunities?

Focus is on acturial and quantitative work. Is the hidden market the way
to go? Have no illusions about Brasil, but still am thinking/dreaming of relocating.

Thanks,

Striker

Kenn

04-20-04, 13:05

good luck.... just applying for a work permit is enough to make you pull your hair out by the roots...

Fartknocker

04-21-04, 04:56

Also keep in mind just how little you will wind up making with any legitimate job in Brazil. I met a college professor who only made R$ 1,400 per month. The minimum salary in Brazil is only R$240, and many FAMILIES live on only two salaries.

The experience of living in Brazil as a first-world tourist and the experience of living in Brazil like a Brazilian are two very different things. They simply do not have anything like the same standard of living as we do in the US (or Europe/Japan). A guy who has a full-time job flipping burgers at McDonalds in the US can have a better standard of living than the average college-educated Brazilian.

The best way to live and work in Brazil is to get hired by a first- world company who will send you to Brazil and pay you a first-world salary.

The second best way to live and work in Brazil is to save your pennies and start your own business down there. However, you had better know what the hell you are doing.

Getting a job with a Brazilian company would be my absolute last choice. If you love Brazil, it would be better to find a job in your own country where you can work part of the year for a decent salary, and then spend the rest of the year in Brazil living on your savings.

Rezza

04-22-04, 01:08

Guys,

Does anyone know of any decent websites where I can find property for sale in Buzios or Cabo Frio? I have done various searches on the Internet and there is very little available.

Thanks in advance.

Rezza

Travel Addict

04-30-04, 06:05

Huh? Put Buzios imoveis in Google and you get hundreds of hits, e.g.:

http://www.buziosonline.com.br/imoveis/scripts/imovel-list.cfm?EscopoBusca=Venda

http://buzios.niteroi.org/

http://www.wimoveis.com.br/lagos/

Rezza

04-30-04, 19:02

Thanks T A,

I found one that is really good - gives links to various real estate agents in buzios.

http://www.buziosturismo.com/indexingles.htm

and then go to Real Estate / Buzios tab on the left.

Cheers,

Rezza

Travel Addict

05-04-04, 04:48

You are welcome. Have you been to Buzios? I was there last week and did not find it very appealing. Ditto for Cabo Frio. If I was gonna live in Brazil, I would live in Barra de Tijuca, right outside of Rio.

Brazil Specialist

05-04-04, 11:31

First of all, I warn you of buying apartments. While some people have no problems, or can actually make good business renting their apartments to tourists, others get problems or might even lose all their money.

The legal system in Brazil is deplorable. Some lawyers are inept or crooks. Even if you get a valid title, what will you do if the roof leaks and the building manager refuses to fix it? Sue the building for 5 years while it drips on your bed? Come to Brazil for fun, avoid the problems.

How to find prices for apartments, to rent or to buy? Go to:

http://classificados.oglobo.com.br/

Tt is straightforward.

Now if you go to Casa e Voce, Voce produtos e servicos

Termas and/or Servicos de Acompanhantes

You can find other types of advertisements that might be of interest for you.

Other possibility

http://www.balcao.com.br/

A free advertising newspaper. I think you need to pay to actually get the addresses and phone numbers.

http://odia.ig.com.br/classificados/

Go to imoveis compra e venda (real estate to buy)

Imoveis aluguel (Real estate to rent)

or Casa Termas/massagens for the information on really cheap brothels for R$ 10 and up.

At some point you need to choose a day of the week, segunda feira till domingo. For Real Estate, domingo is probably best. For Termas, try Thursday or Friday.

Note: if you need an escort on a weekend or holliday, buy "O Globo" or "O Dia" newspaper and check the classifieds. Whoever spends money to advertise on this day probably is open and working.

=======

Here you find the covers of "O Dia" for every day. Don't be shocked by all the crime news

http://odia.ig.com.br/capas/capa.html

Rezza

05-04-04, 18:58

TA

I been to Buzios 3 times now and I love it. Its peaceful, safe, classy and beautiful beaches.

I love Rio too and its only 2hrs away, but property is cheaper in Buzios and I prefer not to live in big city as I have done now for 20 years.

Granted u need to take/have a girl there, but when you do, you wont regret it - never fails to bring out the true GFE in the garota ;)

Johan

05-06-04, 23:53

Jackson. This is from Stratfor. An extremely good global strategic analytics concern. The analytic below would be of interest to visitors or residents of Brasil.

Brazil: Da Silva Lacks Weapon Against Organized Crime
May 05, 2004 2105 GMT

Summary

Brazil's organized crime gangs are amassing significant amounts of firepower, making it painfully clear that President Luiz Inacio "Lula" da Silva lacks a strategy for controlling soaring levels of criminal violence. The security crisis likely will grow much worse during the remaining two and a half years of da Silva's presidency. It will hurt the economy's development and undercut government efforts to attract investment.

Analysis

Over the past year, Brazil's largest organized crime gangs -- the Red Command (CV) in Rio de Janeiro and First Capital Command (PCC) in Sao Paulo -- have acquired significantly more firepower, including antipersonnel mines, hand grenades, machine guns, tracer ammunition and body armor. Many of the weapons are being stolen from Brazilian military arsenals, some in brazen raids like one May 3 in which armed gunmen suspected of belonging to CV raided an air force arsenal and stole 23 KK-33 automatic weapons and 50 semi-automatic handguns.

Since the end of 2002, law enforcement sources have detected growing indications that top CV and PCC leaders are developing business and political alliances as they seek to consolidate their control over the country's lucrative domestic and international drug-trafficking. Both trends have serious political implications for President Luiz Inacio "Lula" da Silva's government.

The interstate alliances the CV and PCC are forming, for example, likely will expand their reach and influence across large sections of Brazil. Law enforcement is the political prerogative and legal responsibility of each of Brazil's 27 state governments. The federal government has no direct control over the state agencies, and there is no federal law enforcement policy that coordinates the fight against organized crime. Gathering and sharing crime intelligence is deficient at the federal level.

Although reliable figures are difficult to find, increasing levels of criminal violence and the growing sophistication of organized crime gangs clearly are having an impact on economic activity, based on reports from state law enforcement sources and local news media. Merchants in Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo routinely pay the gangs protection money. The CV and PCC even have the power to shut down entire neighborhoods -- including private businesses and schools -- for events like the funerals of slain gang leaders. Businesses that disobey an order to close for the day have been firebombed.

Large companies, including multinational firms as well as wealthy Brazilian and foreign nationals, spend billions of dollars annually on armored vehicles, private bodyguards and other security services. Many companies are believed to be paying protection money indirectly by investing in social improvement efforts in some gang-controlled neighborhoods, according to security consultants in Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro.

These payments could lull businesses into believing they have held the criminals at bay, which, in the short term, might be true. But as the gangs become more sophisticated, they likely will start to recycle their illegal drug-related profits into political and legal business ventures; the targets then become the very businesses that have been paying protection money. This is the pattern followed by organized crime cartels in Colombia, Mexico, Italy, Russia, Europe, Asia and other regions. Criminally owned legitimate enterprises undercut legal business activity, cost the government tax revenues and discourage private investment.

PCC has financed political candidates to the Sao Paulo state legislature and Brazil's National Congress on prison reform platforms. Moreover, PCC and CV have infiltrated state and federal governments and political parties, according to congressional investigations conducted as far back as 2000. While both crime syndicates have continued to expand over the past four years, the Brazilian government's efforts to keep up have made no progress at all.

Da Silva's government made little effort in its first year to reform the country's police and judiciary. Avoiding a debt default and projecting Brazil's assertive new foreign policy under da Silva's personal globetrotting leadership were perceived as more vital priorities. Any reform efforts now likely would be opposed in the Senate. Many senators are former state governors with long ties to state and military police and judicial entities that consistently have opposed law-enforcement reform initiatives. Also, because state governors are responsible for judicial and law enforcement institutions, they will likely oppose federal reform efforts that could threaten their power.

The rise of Brazilian crime gangs like CV and PCC has regional implications. For instance, CV has been swapping weapons for narcotics with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) rebel group since the late 1990s. These links were confirmed by the Colombian military in 2001 during "Operation Black Cat" in southern Colombia against the FARC's 16th Front.

The CV's top chieftain, Fernandinho Beira Mar, was captured in 2001 in southern Colombia in the company of several FARC bodyguards. He is now jailed in a maximum-security prison in Sao Paulo state, yet he continues to run his criminal enterprises and has managed to consolidate his power within the CV's top criminal hierarchy, according to published news reports and Brazilian federal law enforcement sources.

CV also has ties to Bolivian drug traffickers and Paraguayan arms smugglers, according to Brazilian law enforcement officials. These regional narcotics and arms-smuggling links, combined with CV's expanding influence inside Brazil, its growing firepower and its drug-related profits, could potentially make the CV-PCC alliance one of the most powerful criminal syndicates in Latin America within a very short time -- particularly if the Brazilian crime lords consolidate alliances with Mexican, Russian and European organized crime groups.

Based on the experience over the past decade of countries like Colombia and Mexico, Stratfor believes it is very likely this already could be happening in Brazil, which already has a 30-year history of providing sanctuary for Sicilian organized crime groups fleeing prosecutors in Italy and the United States.

As the regional and international reach of Brazilian crime gangs increases, it is also possible that alliances will grow between Brazil-based criminal enterprises and groups with political destabilization agendas in neighboring countries like Bolivia, Peru and Colombia -- particularly if Brazilian crime lords feel their own business interests are threatened by U.S.-backed efforts to fight drugs and militant activity in South America's Andean region. While Brazil's organized crime gangs have yet to specifically target Americans in that country, this possibility cannot be ruled out in the next year or two.

Brazil's government has yet to confront the longer-term national security implications of the increasing reach and sophistication of criminal enterprises. In effect, the government is more concerned with the immediate issue of stemming the increasingly murderous actions of the CV and other gangs in states like Rio de Janeiro.

Da Silva indicated last week that he was willing to deploy up to 1,800 troops trained in urban crime control into Rio de Janeiro city. However, past military incursions into Rio de Janeiro have produced very slight and short-lived improvements in terms of containing the CV. Moreover, military leaders have objected to the use of military assets for civilian law enforcement, partly because of budget restrictions, but also because of lingering historical concerns about using military forces for civilian law enforcement.

Da Silva will soon be ordering troops into Rio de Janeiro and will outline his new security agenda for the region on May 10, according to an unnamed government official. This measure likely will result in violent clashes between the troops and criminals if the troops venture into the favelas (poor areas). It is also possible that the troops could simply seek to seal off the worst gang-controlled favelas, as they have done periodically in past years. Regardless of which strategy is enforced, the troops eventually will be pulled out again -- the latest plan calls for troops to remain through 2004 -- meaning a return to business as usual for the crime lords of Rio and other cities.

As Brazil's organized-crime plague intensifies during the rest of da Silva's term, voters likely will assign the blame increasingly to his government. Da Silva has evaded direct criticism of his government's failure to revive the economy and fulfill his many campaign promises by blaming the previous government. However, da Silva himself said in January that the time for adjustment had passed and that sustained economic growth would materialize. He also promised progress on his social reform pledges -- including tougher law and order policies. He has failed to deliver so far, and voters eventually will hold him accountable.

Sir Hades

05-13-04, 13:52

Any one can give me infos about language insititutes teaching Portuquese to English speakers in Sao Paulo?

My job makes me to come to Sao Paulo at least 2~3 months a year, so I think Portuquese is a must to experiece more in Brazil.

Thanks guys.

Brazil Specialist

05-26-04, 15:01

Most people I know use Pimsleur Language course. A basic version is cheap, more advanced versions are quite expensive (3 courses of 300 dollars each). They can be found in some file sharing places.

You can try to find Brazilians in the US to teach you, like at Universities. Plenty of language schools can be found in Brazil. In Rio it is Brasas, Fisk, wizard etc. Search on google for it.

Brazil Specialist

05-26-04, 15:02

Johan,

Thanks for the informative report. It is interesting to see an overview from a non-brazilian source.

I hope this guy is not right!

Cutting Edge

05-27-04, 00:09

A couple of important questions that some of you guys may know the answer to.

1- Can a foreigner without residency own a property in Brasil, ie hold the title to the apartment/house?

2- What rights does a girlfriend have to your property if you have been dating her for a long time or she has been living under your roof?

Some guy in Rio told a friend of mine that if you date a girl for 1 year, she effectively becomes a common law wife and has rights to your property if you split(sounds exaggerated to me).

thanks

Photo55

05-27-04, 14:07

I'm not an expert on this but will give my impression. There definitely is common law marriage as I have brazilian friends who have kids who aren't married but aren't concerned because they know that they qualify for common law status. One of the reasons they skipped the legal wedding. divorce law is normally 50/50 unless you specify at the time of registering your marriage. guessing that common law status automatically throws you into that 50/50 bucket. not sure what the time frame is that kicks you into common law but my guess is that the law is going to favor the local brazilian girl over the foreigner that has gone absent any day.

Best bet is the get a reputable despachante who speaks english and can walk you through the details (peron who helps with legal things but normally isn't a lawer, they are usually a necessary part of the process of getting anything legal done). would like to know the definitive answer to your questions as well.

Johan

06-02-04, 06:38

Property Rights.

Yes, as a gringo, you can purchase properties and own the title. No issue at all. However, if you do not have trust worthy friends then better go through a lawyer and a respectable agent. I bought a small condo in Barra through a good friend (who is a banker at CitiBank Brasil). Her sister is a real estate agent and I had been helping her son on school etc. and we developed friendship over the years. So, she was quite enthusiatic to help me. Note that Brasil has lots of weird laws and business practice that can be quite strange to us from an American perspective.

As to the dating for one year and the woman becomes the common law wife and ownership of property, I suggest if you truly want to check it out, you have to consult a local attorney. My personal read is you were misinformed. I know lots of Brasilian friends dating the same girl for years and ended up separate, no property implications there. I think you should be careful when your "friends" told you things like this.

Lastly, why would you want the girl to stay in your place especially when you are hardly there. You don't want someone to takeover of your place in your absence. better lease it out to make some money.

Johan

06-02-04, 06:46

Brazil Expert.

The analytics on Brasil was produced by Stratfor. A research agency staffed by former intelligence expert/researchers from across the world. From ex-CIA guys to MI5. Their research are available at Stratfor.com on a worldwide basis. Many major corporation acquire their special research for geo political/econmic forecast. Their prediction may not always be accurate but their analysis is very unique. I checked with my colleague in our SP office who covers for macro economy forecast, he thinks that while the forecast can be a little too pessimistic however, it is quite accurate.

John

06-04-04, 14:18

From those of you living in brazil, can some one please let me know what would be a reasonable rent for a furnished one bed room apartment with air conditioning in the copa cabana area.

Kenn

06-06-04, 12:18

Hi John, that would depend on how long you rented it for....... How far from the beach and in what section of the city it was....
If you found one in Botofogo or Flamengo it would be less expensive than in Copacabana but I feel a bit more dangerous as well.

Cutting Edge

06-11-04, 00:00

Just an update;

Common law marriage in Brasil is only 6 months, the girl has to live under your roof for this period of time. This time can go quicker than you can imagine. I and others have decided the best thing to do is act semi-broke. Don't tell the girl its your property, tell her you rent it from a collegue. That way she won't expect to be allowed to stay there when you are away. It will also get rid of a lot of the gold diggers early.

You've got to be really careful with the girls in Brasil, I had a NP girl for many months, she was sweet, insecure and never asked for anything. However, when she thought she had got me under the thumb, she got really bossy, demanding and seemed to think my money was hers. The relationship dipped and I got rid of her.

On another point, rental costs are generally calculated as 1% of property value per month on a long term lease.

J Wadd

06-11-04, 05:22

Thanks for the report, amigo. Just saw "City of God" last night -- sigh: I wish I was in Brasil right now. I don't want this section to turn into a chat-room (there's enough of that on the Rio board). Buuuut, I wouldn't mind reviving the conversation as to which city is the best-all-around in Brasil to live. There're probably four categories: (good) Big, (good) small, beach and sex.

Rio: big, beach and sex.

Sao Paulo: Big (I like S.P. as a big city), best sex in Brasil.

Recife: small and big, great beaches, o.k. sex.

Fortaleza: small and big, good beaches, better-than-o.k. sex.

Maceio: etc., etc., etc.

Florianopolis: etc.

Belo Horizonte, Curitiba, etc.

I wish I could make up my mind. Could some of you come up with a category-rated list of your 5-favorite cities? Obrigad!

JW

Fartknocker

06-15-04, 05:18

I can't tell you much about the big cities, but here are a few medium-sized cities to look at. All of these are big enough to find decent restaurants and shopping, but still have all the small city benefits (less traffic, less crime, lower prices for the basics, etc.)

Buzios, Cabo Frio and Arrail do Cabo are all part of the "Regiao dos Lagos," an area about 2 1/2 by car east of Rio. Cabo Frio to Buzios is only about 30 minutes by car, so if you live in the area, you enjoy the benefits of all three.

Buzios: Decent shopping/nightlife on the Rua das Pedras. Tons of small beaches. Lots of foreigners (mostly Euros and Argentines). More expensive than Cabo Frio or Arrail. I'm told working girls are easy to find, but pricier than Cabo Frio.

Cabo Frio: Bigger than Buzios. Big Carnival celebration (unfortunately well-attended by every asshole in Rio). Forte Beach is nice -- lots of kiosks. Some nightlife down on the Canal. Lots of small-town girls -- generally not as good looking at Rio girls, but twice as bored. Paid sex is cheaper, but tougher to find. Biggest downside is all the small-town bullshit and gossip -- everyone knows or is related to everyone else in town.

Arrail: Small town, not well developed but very close to Cabo Frio. One of the biggest godamn beaches I've ever seen. Even more laid back than Cabo. A lot of nice houses on the hills that overlook the ocean. (Cabo Frio is pretty flat and doesn't have this). Good place to rent/dock a boat for sightseeing or fishing.

Novo Friburgo: This is NOT near the Regiao dos Lagos. Its a little city in the mountains of northern Rio de Janeiro state, toward Belo Horizonte. I've never seen another town like it in Brazil. Its more like a little Swiss mountain village than a Brazilian city. Has lots of outdoors activities neaby in Lumiar (rafting, rock climbing, etc). Gorgeous mountain scenery in and around the town. The downside is NO beach and you are a LONG way from anywhere, since travel through the mountains tends to be pretty slow. There may be paid sex in town, but I didn't find it during my brief visit.

Hope this helps out anyone looking for someplace a little more relaxed than Rio or SP.

CBGBConnisur

06-17-04, 00:51

Guys, I'm thinking of moving to Rio for a year. I am wondering how hard is it to get a VISA to live in Brazil for that long? I have about $12,000US budgeted for this trip, is this enough to live comfortably in Rio and enjoy the nightlife? What's a good area to live in over there that's fairly cosmopolitan and where I can meet regular young, educated, non-prostitute local women? What's the best places to meet regular Brazilian women(Ones that aren't hookers)? I want to meet a nice upper middle class Brazilian lady, this is my one year quest to meet the woman that I might actually marry or maybe not. Do I have any chance of pulling this off, I think I am a regular looking guy and not rich.

Bravo

06-17-04, 02:38

You should try and triple that amount in order to have a decent 1 year trip. I would try and budget about 100 bucks a day.

Brazil Specialist

06-18-04, 22:02

CBGBConnisur

$ 1000 per month puts you probably in the top 5 % of the population. Not many salaries surpass R$ 3000 after taxes.

If you know what you are doing, if you don't get 3 termas girls per day for a total of R$ 600, you can get by.

But, on low budget you might get by better in places like Philippines.

If you are young, blonde, etc you will find girlfriends. If you don't mind 35 year old girls, you will find girlfriends no matter how old and ugly you are. You must be willing to be jealously guarded (I am not willing)

Fartknocker

06-19-04, 02:16

CBGB,

First, getting a visa that lets you stay more than 6 months is a motherfucker. Check out this article on Brazzil.com

http://www.brazzil.com/2004/html/articles/jun04/p130jun04.htm

It goes into it in detail. A tourist visa that lets you stay for 6 months is very easy to get, though.

So you want an "educated, upper-middle class" girl? Well, chum, you have a lot to learn about Brazil. First of all, there isn't much of a middle class. Second of all, education is mostly reserved for people who have money. Third, your chances of hooking up with an upper-class Brazilian are between Slim and None (and Slim just left town).

Let me break it down for you. Rich Brazilians are the king-fucking-shits in their country, and they know it. Many are every bit as rich as the American and European upper class, but since Brazil is generally a poor country, they are twice as powerful. What do you think the chances are of some American tourist with $12K in his pocket going to France and hooking up with a daughter of the French aristocracy? Cut the odds of that in half and you have your chance of making it happen with a rich Brazilian girl.

Your $12K isn't going to go that far in Rio or SP. If you head for one of the smaller cities, and choose to "go native" a bit, you can have a pretty good time for $1K a month. Outside of Rio/SP You are much less likely to meet the educated silver spoon type you are so set on, but you may very well meet the girl of your dreams.

Education is great, but it is not on the top of my list of what I want in a wife. What I would want is a woman who is sweet, passionate, feminine, domestic, beautiful, fun-loving (and sex loving), and I've met a number of "lower class" Brasileiras who fit that description. If education is so important to you, teach your namorada English and send her to an American college after you have married her. You'll probably be happier with her than with some nose-in-the-air rich-*****.

Java Man

06-19-04, 07:51

Fartknocker:
Any pousadas you can recommend in Arrail do Cabo? I've been to Buzios and Cabo Frio. Also how much is the boat rental there? I'll be back in Rio end of july.

Fartknocker

06-19-04, 16:30

Chingon,

I never used pousadas anywhere in the Regiao dos Lagos. I have friends in the area and always staid with them. Just do a web search for pousadas in Cabo Frio. When you touch down, stay at the one you picked out before the trip, and then hunt around for a better one the next day. That's what I usually do on most of my little field trips outside of the Cabo Frio area.

Arrail do Cabo is not more than about 10-12 miles from the edge of Cabo Frio. You can actually stay in Cabo Frio and hop the bus to Arrail anytime you want to. The fare is something stupid-low like R$ 1.10.

I love the bus system around Cabo Frio. My wealthy Brazilian buddy wouldn't be caught dead riding the bus (my girl down there says he couldn't get his ego past the turnstile), but it works out just fine for me. It's dirt cheap (usually about $R 1 and change) and very regular (I rarely had to wait more than 5-10 minutes). In Rio and SP the buses are fucking nuts. During the busy hours they are absolutey crammed full of people -- standing room only, inhale when the guy next to you exhales. In Cabo Frio, if you have to stand on the bus at all you won't be standing for long before a seat clears up. The trick is figuring out where all these buses are going. I never did find a route map, but all the locals can tell you every stop for every bus in town.

Anyway, you don't have to stay in Arrail to party in Arrail. There are a lot more pousadas in Cabo Frio (and a lot more to do at night in Cabo).

As far as boat rental prices, it depends on how you rent it. They have these big cattle boats where 25-30 people pile on for a little trip around the cape and I think each person pays about R$ 5. The last time I rented a boat was March last year when I and two of my friends were down playing the "rich asshole American" game during Carnival. We rented the whole fucking 25-person boat just for the three of us. I think we paid R$ 275 for the whole afternoon. You should have seen the looks we were getting from the passing cattle boats -- priceless.

Kenn

06-20-04, 13:08

CBGBConnisur, just my opinion....

You will most likely NOT be able to get a visa to stay for a year. They don't just hand them out.......
That being said, try it for 3-6 months then decide what you want to do. It's a LOT different living here than visiting here...

You won't get far on 1,000.USD a month either... if you plan on living in Copa., Ipanema, Leblon etc. For a nice 1 bedroom furnished apt. expect to pay about 300-500.USD a month.. then add in about 150.USD a month for elect. gas, phone, internet. etc. You're already at 500 - 650.USD and you have not counted food, drink, entertainment. etc....
Even if you paid 150.reais for sex 3x a week..
150 x 3 = 450.reais x 4.3 = 1,350.reais / 3 = 450.USD you're busted.

Rio Nut

06-21-04, 00:26

Fartknocker is correct. You can probably forget about the very rich girls because being rich is Brazil is like being almost medieval royalty. You never really have to work and your life is guaranteed with luxury. In comparison, the average life of even an upper middle class American is a COMPLETE JOKE.

That is why life in the U.S. is a laughing joke among the rich of Third World countries...only the poor want to live in the U.S. The rich prefer to stay where they are and live the good life where labor (including pussy) is cheap and flows like a waterfall, and there are no limits on what you can do and get away with. With money in Brazil, you have total freedom.

Now $1000 per week is also too little money. I know some Brazilians in Sao Paulo who quit their jobs because they were insulted by that salary. It is like the starting salary for someone who graduated from a good university. Not enough to live a very good life with, especially if you are paying for rented pussy.

Fartknocker

06-21-04, 02:52

As a comparison, here's how it could work in a smaller city like Cabo Frio if you spent your money well:

Rent: R$ 600 - 1000 for an off-season short-term lease on a small apartment (which rents long-term for R$ 300-400). This is maybe 300 sq feet, one bedroom, kitchen in the living room. Not swank digs, but hell, if you are doing anything but fucking there you are missing half the fun of being in Brazil.

Food: R$ 25 / day eating all your meals out. That's R$ 4 for meat/cheese/bread for breakfast, R$6 for lunch at your local por kilo place, and $R15 at one of many decent eateries.

Booze: R$70 / week should get you drunk off your ass at the local bar at least every other day. A garrafa of cerveja only runs R$ 2-3 and mixed drinks go R$ 5-6.

Sex: R$240 / week should get you laid three times by the local small-town pros -- if you really want to pay for it. The same cash could get you laid every night by the local piranhas if you fala and have some panache.

Maid: R$ 40 / week to clean your place and scrub your dirty underwear. If she's cute you might get some discount action. Half the girls who work as a maids will turn a trick if offered the opportunity. (hell she's there anyway, might was well clean everything . . .)

Misc: R$150 / week for bus fare, beer & snacks on the beach, cover at the local boite once a week, and ocassional grocery shopping, etc.

Add that all up and I think you get about R$3500 -- which is about USD$ 1100 at current exchange rates. I've actually been fairly generous with all these costs. I never spent anywhere near this while I was living down there.

Is it as much fun as Rio or SP? Are the girls as beautiful? Is commercial sex as easy to find? Is the whole situation as "gringo friendly?"

Hell no on all accounts. But its a lot cheaper and still a hell of lot more fun than punching a clock anywhere in the US. And where is your sense of adventure? Guys that don't get out of Rio/SP are just plain lazy IMHO. There is plenty of hot ass in Brazil just waiting for the guy who is willing to go off the beaten trail a bit.

CBGBConnisur

06-21-04, 03:02

Okay, but I thought Brazil is some poor third world country with a lot of good looking women. I went to some Asian countries that are richer than Brazil(Japan and South Korea, they're citizens are the only people from non-white countries that can enter my country without a VISA, Brazilians need a VISA) and did pretty well with local women. I can definitely up my budget a lot, but since this is a third world country I was expecting things to be a lot cheaper. There was another person who mentioned that rich and upper middle class Brazilians are rich in Brazilian terms but are not rich in comparison to people in developed countries. It's strange because where I am people tend to look down on upper class Brazilians(if they were upper class in Brazil they get downgraded to lower class where I am), they deported some Brazilian student like he was nothing where I am not too long ago. I am a very well off upper middle class, guy in reasonable shape, I live in a civilized country, shouldn't it be easy to get a woman out of Brazil? A lot of people from Brazil, most of them highly educated an upper class types, try to come to where I am, but few of them get in.

Rio Nut

06-21-04, 06:30

CBGB first you must learn more about Brazil before you set foot there.

The "rich" in Brazil control most of the country's wealth. For many families in Rio de Janeiro, what a typical American makes in a year is something they would probably spend on their trips several times a year to Europe.

I know one Rio de Janeiro family that makes roughly $20,000 per month. Now I know that may not be much in Brazil, but I do not make $240,000 a year, and I doubt many people on this board do as well. So their daughter will not be exactly seeing you as some type of white knight.

Plus do not forget. Unless you are talking about *****s and gold digging poor girls, Rio de Janeiro is a body conscious looks conscious society. Ugly is ugly, old is old, no matter where you are in the world.

Photo55

06-21-04, 15:03

Two additional cents. Fartknocker (by the way, explain that user name for me!) is totally right about rich (Economic Class A) brazilians. they are indeed the king-fucking-shits here in this country.

Probably close to 100% of them have second European passports (Italian, German, Portuguese), they own close to 100% of the usuable land in this country, they go to very expensive private high schools and speak perfect english (and/or German and French), and then go to very good elite public universities (or go abroad, lots in Boston) which are free (only the rich get in because they do the best on the entrance exams), they have homes in the city and usually a beach house and/or a country home, and all those homes have at least one full time cleaning staff (usually at least a maid and a cook, not including the security detail). and because of PPP adjusted cost of living, their money goes that much farther.

Basically...to be born a rich brazilian is almost like being born a king or queen. As long as you have good liquid cash flow from your assets you can easily travel abroad. Anyone who thinks rich brazilians lag behind other top economic classes from the first world countries has taken a look at really what the rich of this country earn (an export agriculture powerhouse) and have to spend to maintain a ultra luxury standard of living.

biggest downside is of course security....standard is having an armored car but the risk of random violence and/or targeted kidnapping remains a concern for the Class A brazilians.

BTW, a decent salary here in Sao Paulo is usually $R10,000-$R12,000 a month. Again not a lot of money relative to a US salary but have to factor in the PPP adjusted cost of living.

Photo55

06-21-04, 15:12

Couple of other points;

1. most of the illegal brazilians in the USA are NOT representative of Class A brazilians (although very good people in their own right, just trying to earn a better wage for their families). Ditto for the japanese brazilians who go to Japan and work there for a couple of years earning money.

2. Brazilians need a visa because of the high number of illegal brazilians in the USA. That has nothing to do with the relative level of rich brazilians via other rich people from other countries.

3. the unequal income distribution is what makes rich brazilians so rich. Japan and South Korea are much more equal in their distribution of income. Income distribution is only wose in South Africa. the fact that Brazil never went through any meaningful land redistribution means that the economic assets of the country and highly concentrated.

CBGB Connisur. you need to do a little reading on Brazil. Esp. if you think you can land a nice upper middle class girl who will leave this country. doubt you are offering her a beach house and/or country home?

Shiny

06-21-04, 15:39

I have been considering a move to Brazil and just renewing a travel visa every 180 days.
Here is my impression so far of the Residence situation in Brazil.

Renting in Rio should probably be thought of like renting in New York in terms of price mark-up. Brazilians who want Rio jobs paying R$ 400/mo cannot afford to Rent a place to live in Rio. They can either risk the violence of favelas or actually buy affordable subsidized land with that salary and build a home approximately 2 hours of commute outside of Rio.

http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=23349

Therefore, if you are renting an apartment in Rio it seems to me you should be able to land a non-pro girl who normally commutes 2 hours each way to work in exchange for a place to live and some low level dating activities. It's kind of like prostitution anyway but more GFE. You would probably have to know at least some portuguese though I did this with a german girl whom I couldn't understand.

As U.S. citizens we might not qualify for the government subsidized plots of land to build on. If we do then that seems like an awesome option if a guy making R$ 400/mo can afford the land plus having a "modest home" built. This is probably how the Brazil government keeps foreign land buyers at bay while allowing it's average income citizens to survive...subsidies.

Fartknocker

06-21-04, 18:27

Shiny,

After having lived in Brazil for a time, I don't know why anyone would want to move there permanantly. Its fun as hell to go down as a tourist and be "rich" for a change, but after a while the place will grind you down. You get tired of all the sad stories and human misery before your eyes. You get tired of everyone trying to get their hand in your pocket. You get tired of the constant jockying for advantage in every business deal. You get tired of all the lying, bullshit and malicious gossip that people use to try to manipulate you. You get tired of the chaos and complete lack of working laws or social prohibitions. All of these things are subtle at first, but they build up over time.

There is a reason why most Brazilians of means spend a goodly amount of time outside of Brazil.

I think the optimal solution for any gringo is to get a job where you can make good money half the year, and then spend the other half down in Brazil. Go down, live like a king, get your Brazil fix, and then get your ass back up to gringo-land before you lose you mind -- or worse, before you "go native" and spend your life trying to scam a living off your fellow man.

Rio Nut

06-21-04, 19:15

Yes Fartknocker!! I too lived in Brazil, and in the beginning it is very nice because you can fuck many non-pro women and things are cheap. Then I started to hate Brazilian men, because I found them very ignorant and also very jealous and always trying to take advantange of people, including gringos, in every situation. They will do this with a big smile on their face, because that is their way. I would often ask somebody for help, and the first thing they would do is make sure they were somehow compensated or got a cut of the deal. It is like a chain of leeches trying to suck you on every business deal.

I really do think that living there every day all year would make me crazy. On the other hand, I think I could handle 6 months out of the year. The only problem is then that if you get married to a Brazilian girl, what do you do? Leave her in Brazil for 6 months? No, she will surely cheat on you then.

But to bring her to the U.S. for those 6 months also is bad, because they become spoiled and begin to hate the U.S.

CBGBConnisur

06-21-04, 23:45

Actually I make a lot more than $20,000 dollars a month, I'm a businessman and own a lot of different things. I got rich from the internet, but I am a stealth wealthy person, meaning most people don't know I am rich, not even any of my girlfriends know about it, because I like to avoid golddigging *****s. In some places I pretend like I'm an average guy and get the ladies that way, so I know they are pure. I live in a nice house in front of a fine beach but I don't drive a Ferrari. I am cheap, so American and British women are something I don't want because they want me to spend money on them. Why is it so tough to get a Brazilian women out of the country? My friend told me they are easy. I am looking for a woman that can cook, clean, provide good sex, and maybe a housewife. When I mean educated, I was overstating, I want a woman with at least a high school education that can read and write, that is all. I don't need an upper class girl or a heart surgeon, just some middle class lady, there must be some middle class over there? Right? I was reading about that Giselle Bundchen chic and she said her family was middle class but by American standards she said was poor and couldn't afford to eat at McDonald's, at least before she got into modeling and met Leonardo DiCaprio. I heard the same thing about Fernanda Lima and Laetitia, those two Victoria's Secret girls. How's the chance of me getting a 9 or 10 out the country, let's forget about social class( I was all confused because I thought upper class person in South America is equal to lower class person in the United States), I don't want to meet some superrich aristocratic type as long as she is attractive and knows how to cook, clean, fuck, and be a housewife. French aristocracy?? No way I don't like French women because they smell and don't shave their underarms and pussy. Otherwise if it impossible to find a gorgeous Brazilian housewife, I will go to Russia, Poland, or Czech Republic, a girl offered to live in my house for $600(she makes only $400 in the Czech Republic is good looking and is a good cook and a good fuck) a month and will cook and clean and give me some honey if you know what I mean. Any chance of bringing back an attractive housewife "rental"? I got an Argentinian chic as my housekeeper/mistress and she is living with me a for a few months now she is bored and wants to go back to her country. Previously I had a Greek-Italian women, before that a German-Turkish lady, before that a Spanish woman from Spain, and before that a Russian. Everyone says the Brazilian women are the best, although the Italian-Greek and the German-Turkish lady that I lived with me, everyone thought they were Latinas.

Germany does not allow dual citizenship but I heard of some famous banker who had dual Swiss and Brazilian citizenship. The UK definitely does not allow dual citizenship with Brazil, only with Canada and Australia, or other British commonwealth nations. How exactly can they get second passports from European countries unless they originally from those countries? I have heard that there are a lot of Italians and Portuguese that live in Brazil and other SA countries. So for what I am hearing about Brazil is not a good place to live unless your super wealthy and is very corrupt. Anyway I didn't want to move there, I just wanted to try what many people have told me is finest place to find pussy in the world.

Fartknocker

06-22-04, 00:22

Well CBGB, sounds to me like you've already got it figured out. Snag a short-term live-in for domestic and recreational use and kick her to the curb when you get bored with her. There are only . . . oh lemme think . . a few tens of millions of Brazilian girls who would work out just fine for that purpose.

Why the fuck would you want to get married if you have money? I have a good Brazilian friend of mine who made millions running a casino in Uruguay. The guy has been married three times and had many live-ins. I can tell you he has lost hundreds of thousands of dollars due to his wives and long-term live-ins. Divorce settlements, alimony, child care, keep-your-mouth-shut money, outright theft -- you name it. He's figured out about every way to get ripped off by a chick.

There is nothing in the world more expensive than cheap pussy. If you have the cash, play your game and leave the marriage gig for poor suckers.

Rio Nut

06-22-04, 02:12

CBGB supposedly makes OVER $20,000 per month, yet he previously wanted to know whether the $12,000 budgeted for a ONE YEAR stay in Rio would be enough to live on. Yes, this makes perfect sense. This is the problem with the Internet. People will lie and write gibberish just to make themselves feel better. You do not need to lie to get advice on Brazilian pussy, just tell the truth and people will give their opinions.

You also state that you like to avoid golddigging *****s, yet you are looking for women who will live with you and fuck you for money. It sounds to me like that is exactly what you are looking for: golddigging *****s

In which case, you just need to go to a ***** house in Brazil and invite one of them to marry you. Many of them will be happy to come to the U.S.

Prosal

06-22-04, 10:37

CBGB : you'd better go slow on schnaps, if you really think that a Brasilian educated stunner can be your 24 hours slave for a few hundred dollars per month .... you'll find only desesperate and undereducated girls, usually poor (and ugly) mulatas/faveladas, to be ready for this kind of life in a foreign country ; IMO you'd better stick to your Turkish *****s .....

Do you really think that a Fernanda Lima would want to have a miserable and sad life in your boring country, being the cooker/housekeeper/sex-slave ("gorgious housewife" !!) of a cheap gringo, with who she will not even be able to communicate, and this just to earn a few hundred dollars ?

You're dreaming : a gorgious and educated girl can have a good life in Brasil, even if she's not SO wealthy : she can have good sex whenever she want with sporting and nice Brasilian guys, with who she'll share the language, the culture, the taste for partying, ect ..... She can have fun going everyday to the beach, to concerts, to fine bars and discos with her friends, she can dance till drawn on the music she loves, she can party to death during Carnaval, she can have nice vacations all over her own country, ect : she surely has no desire to become a low-cost housekeeper lost in the middle of a boring western country ....

IMO you'd better try a desesperate (and certainly ugly) Ouzbeck or Turkish *****, who will be ready to be your slave for those miserable 500 $ per month .....

Anyway, and as RioNut just noticed, I also find quite strange that a guy supposedly making "a lot more" than 240 000 $/year could ask if 1000 $ per month (not even the budget of a backpacker !!) are enough to live in Rio .... really quite strange ....

And BTW French girls don't stink and do shave their underarms and pussies ......

Photo55

06-22-04, 14:22

CBCG

I don't know where you got your passport information from. BUT......it is totally wrong. European governments grant citizenship based on blood not where you were born so normally the parent who was originally German, British, Italian etc. passes on their citizenship to their children and so for. Lots of Brazilians have grandparents that were first generation immigrants and therefore secured passports via those family relationships. I have several friends that have German, Italian and British passports. and Germany definitely allows dual nationality these days. Even if they didn't officially allow it, they can't ask their citizens who claim citizenship via family relationship to relinquish their other passports (because those passports are the property of the other country). hence a gray area of international law.
It is suffice to say that holding Brazilian citizenship does not bar you from holding citizenship from a number of European countries or the USA.

You seem to have seem pretty limited and backward views of Brazil. Sounds like you don't speak portuguese either. Net is you will never find a middle class or upper class hot brazilian girl willing to spend any time with you. stick with the vacation package *****s who can be very hot and a fantastic way of spending some vacation money. pitty the poor non pro that ends up with you. you do sound like a cheap bastard.

Rio Nut

06-22-04, 15:53

Pro is correct. The life in Brazil for a beautiful girl, assuming she either has some money or marries rich (most beautiful Brazilians girls have no problems marrying rich) is better than anything you could get in the United States.

The United States is the country of suburban sprawl, fat asses as they sit in traffic, boring strip malls that are the same in every city, blockbuster video, and in general, a nice place to make money but a crap place for anything else.

Brazil is not a good place to make money but once you have it, it is a great place filled with free flowing pussy and as many parties as you want to go to.

I think Americans still have this ignorant idea that "everybody wants to live in america" No, only the poor immigrants want to live in America. If you are rich, American offers you nothing except for a souless suburban existence filled with boredom.

CaptainNemo

06-22-04, 16:07

Question on Brazilian ID

Does anyone know a Brazilian ID with a blue cover. This ID is in passport size, with many pages. It is almost a small book. What kind of ID is this?

I met a Help girl who uses this ID. The Help security guy does not even look into the ID when she showed this ID. When she came to my hotel, the hotel staff was surprised by her ID. The girl has to explain herself to the hotel staff. Of course, I did not understand what they talked about. When I tried to see the ID, the girl did not want me to see it. It is not an actual passport. So, I did not ask her about the ID.

By the way, the girl said that she is Italian who lives in Brazil.

Has any guys seen such Brazilian ID?

Fartknocker

06-22-04, 18:20

Rio Nut,

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who sees the dark side of Brazil. To the average gringo stepping off the plane at GIG, Carioca culture seems like a dream -- fun loving, carefree, smiling, friendly, sexually uncomplicated. After a while, though, you see the other side. You see a people that live by the Golden Rule: "He who has the gold MAKES the rules." The preferred means of social and economic advancement is getting connected to someone who already has money and power -- not through education, hard work, self discipline, or smart investing.

I was involved in a business deal with a Brazilian friend of mine while I was living there. He was always telling me shit about the girl I was dating, because he didn't like the fact that she was helping me figure out a lot of the bullshit he was up to. On the other hand, she was always telling me shit about him to try to keep me in her corner -- obviously with a more permanant relationship in mind. My other girls were always telling me shit about each other. My employees were allways telling me shit about the manager and my partner. The manager was always saying shit about ME behind my back. Hell, after a while I didn't have any fucking clue who was telling the truth, who was on my side, and who was just trying to use me. It just makes you feel slimy all over after a while. I have never experienced workplace/social politicing and manipulation like this anywhere in the US.

As far as the marriage problem you pointed out, I really could never see myself getting married anyway, and the idea of my steady girlfriend cheating on me while I'm away doesn't bother me -- mostly because I intend to cheat on her every chance I get. Monogamy is a sucker's game. I know very few married men who are really happy with their situation, and I know a LOT of men who eventually got divorced and were financially fucked as a result.

Face it gentlemen. We are men. We run the fucking world because we are stonger, smarter, more agressive and more ambitious. Monogamy was invented by women to try to usurp the power that is naturally ours. Don't fall for it.

Rezza

06-22-04, 23:33

CBGBConnisur

Anything is possible in Brazil!

You are never going to get answers by asking other guys in this forum if you can meet the right girl to meet YOUR particular needs. You want a 9 or a 10 and you are budgeting 12k! What makes you think any girl is going to be interested in this deal in any country? If your a young good looking guy and can speak the lingo I would say your chances are good. However, from the tone of your emails and the content of them, it seems clear no brazilian hottie will go with you unless you start to flash some money which you don't seem to want to do even though you make 20k per month!

Like Pro says, these girls don't want to leave their own beautiful country to go move in with some guy and cook, clean and take their shit for a few hundred bucks. Some guys expectations never cease to amaze me! One girl I know went off to Europe with a very rich guy and came back after 1 month cause she could not handle the people, culture etc. - money is not everything you know.

Even though we are all trying to give guidance, we don't have crystal balls to say what's going to happen. You should by now have pretty much all the info you are going to get from this forum so best advice, take a trip there and you will have a much better idea of what ur able to get from the market. If you insist on Brazil then I think your best chance is to learn the language and head to other parts (Not SP or Rio) for a few months in order to meet a more homely type woman.

Good luck,

Rezza

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to correctly spell the words "you", "are" and "because". To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using "u" instead of "you", "r" instead or "are", "em" instead of "them", and "cuz" instead of "because", etc. Thanks!

Rio Nut

06-23-04, 04:59

Hello Fart Knocker,

Well I agree with you about the monogamy. I would never just fuck one woman, even if I was married to her. But I do think that a man needs the "caring" one, who will be there when you are down, cook you the food (hopefully) when you are sick, be the mother of your children (if you want one), and just be the support. But of course, you must make sure she does not use this marriage as a way to suck you dry.

That is another problem with Brazilian women. If you meet one, she will immediately tell you how all the other women (including her friends) are evil bitches. All so that you will distrust everyone else except her. But if you talk to her female friend, then she will start saying bad things about your girl, especially if she is trying to land you in bed. basically, you will not know who to trust, and you will always have this sneaking suspicion that even the most innocent of non-pro girlfriends sees you as a big fat meal ticket.

Many gringo men do not care, and seem to think if they can whisk this Brasileira off to the u.s.a., then she will be forced to stay with me and not cheat on me. Not true! Brazilian women, especially the ones who marry foreign men, are very cunning. They may seem super sweet for 2 years, then be fucking behind your back while they "visit" their family back home in Brazil.

Also, it is not very easy to make brazilian men friends. They may be outgoing and easy to be "casual friends" with, but I can say I know zero brazilian men who I could call true friends and count on in times of trouble.

Hot Diggidy Dog

06-24-04, 06:29

Rio Nut,

You're right that you can't trust a Brasiliera to be faithful if taken to the US. But do you think you can trust her if you stay in Brasil with her?

Can she trust you, if she takes up with you?

Be fair, they're passionate and marriage (or anything else permanent) can be dull. Like you say, you'd never have just one. Why should you think she'll be satisfied with just one?

The biggest differences between Brazilian and American women are (1) at the beginning of the relationship, Brazilians try harder, and (2) if things go wrong, it's much more likely with a Brazilian that your tires will be slashed or your house torched.

Rio Nut

06-24-04, 22:41

Well the reason they are more likely to not cheat in Brazil is because of the power imbalance. the man has more choices in brazil, and can replace the woman really fast. in the u.s., it is harder, and if your wife is nice looking, there will be many men who would be more than happy to take her from you who are probably younger and richer than you.

Anyways, I am also a big double standard man. I think the women should be faithful, and the man can cheat. Also, I think the man should keep the power in the relationship, and the women should be the accomodating one.

That is just me of course. others are different.

CBGBConnisur

06-25-04, 01:59

The double standard exists because women use their sexuality to get their way from men. If a woman is having a hard time with a man she just has to who some cleavage or some legs and voila!! A man can't exactly stick his penis out at a woman to get her to do something for him, he uses money or something else instead.

Almotu

06-25-04, 08:31

CaptainNemo,

Of course I am not a 100% sure but it sounds like what you are describing is a sort of 'working paper' ID. It basically id's that your garota has a right to work in a certain state or 'estado'. It has no official capacity as an ID that can verify a person's age so that's why hotels and HELP do not pay attention to it. The other reason that a garota might not want to show you her ID besides it possibly being a forgery is that her photo does not look good ;-)

If I were you, just ask her for another form of ID before sealing the deal

Almotu

CaptainNemo

06-25-04, 19:33

Almotu

Thanks. If it is not ID, how can Help and hotel staff let her in?

Anyway, she came on to me and said she is Italian. She did speak fluent Italian and decent English. She was 1st time in Help and I am the 2nd man she even slept with. The story was fishy and I did not care about it at that time.

Maybe she told me the truth. She is a foreign in Brazil and she does not have a Brazilian ID. Maybe that's why Help and hotel don't care about her ID.

With her lanuage skills, I was wonder if I was with a pro to BS me or an real 1st timer.

Fartknocker

06-26-04, 01:16

Strange story, Nemo. An Italian coming to Brazil to be a hooker? Weird. Usually things go the other direction.

A Brazilian buddy hooked me up with a chick the Carnival before last who was ethnically Italian and spoke fluent Italian. (I couldn't speak Portuguese at the time, and still don't speak a word of Italian, but that didn't stop us from getting it on. ;-) ) He told me later that she has made quite a bit of money arranging for Brazilian working girls to go to Italy and make big money hooking.

Turns out that line of work went south on her and now she's turning tricks herself for an escort agency in Rio. I'm kind of surprised she didn't go to Italy herself to make the big bucks.

Hot Diggidy Dog

06-26-04, 03:32

Rio Nut,

No problem with your double standard. I lived in Brasil for two years, and my observation about the Brasilieras is simple.

While the affair is young and hot, so are they. And they'll cut your nuts off if they think your cheating on them.

Later, things change. If you marry one, remember this.

They. All. Cheat.

The non-hot ones cheat occasionally. The hot ones cheat often. And the hot upper-class ones cheat constantly.

If you mary a brasilian expecting faithfulness, youre making the same mistake as if she marries you expecting the same.

Rio Nut

06-26-04, 16:25

Hit Diggidy,

Where in brazil did you live?

Yes, I think you are right. Well, maybe not all Brazilians, but I saw that maybe 80-90% of them seem to be capable of cheating.

In other words, if there was a man putting enough pressure on them, then they would cave in.

What is really sad is I know many many men who brought their Brasileiras to the U.S. The only way to keep them from cheating it appeared was to keep them constantly pregnant. But even then, afterwards, they left their husbands and took half his money.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to add standard capitalization throughout the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using the "chat room" style of writing with no capital lettering. Thanks!

CaptainNemo

06-27-04, 01:52

Fartknocker

The whole thing was strange. I was in Help for 2 seconds. I saw her walking across the dance floor and came to talk to me. We were together for 3 days. She spent half of money I gave to her (200R) on the beach for our food/drinks since I did not have money with me. It seems that she did not care about money. At the end, she said that she love me, etc. I did offer to fly her to US. She did not want. I was bit cold to her and she was pissed. She said that she would go back to SP to her family and did not like Help.

Her family moved to Brazil when she was young. She said that she was in the Help for the 1st time. I took all of these with grain salt. I am younger than most of guys in the Help. But, I know that I am not a stud, especially with a girl I met in Help.

I am thinking about her from time to time. Just wonder if her story is true or not.

Well, if I see her again in the Help in the future, I know that she BS me. If not, I may break a girl's heart.

Hot Diggidy Dog

06-27-04, 02:56

Rio Nut,

I was in SP but I doubt it makes a difference. I traveled quite a bit, and it seemed pretty much the same all over. Bahia maybe seemed more traditional, but maybe it was just the folks I met there.

The amorality of brasilieras is part of their attractiveness. Basically, they're guided by their gonads, same as most men in the world. The fact that they'll cheat for a pretty (male) face or hot body just makes them a little more like most men in the world than like European or American women who will go for a guy with status or cash before they'll go for a guy with a tight bod.

Fartknocker

06-27-04, 05:55

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, Nemo. If there is one thing that Brazilians do more than cheat on their significant other, its LIE!! I have yet to meet a Brazilian of either sex I felt like I could really trust -- and I am the type who really WANTS to trust people. In particular, you can virtually never trust a Brazilian who wants something from you. So if you are "rich" foreigner that category includes the 75% of the population that makes up the lower class.

For working girls, lying is like breathing. They do it without even thinking. The art of a prostitute isn't really sex, its lying. A good prostitute can make you think that she actually wants to be with you, when the truth is she wouldn't give you time of day if you didn't have money . . . and Brazilian prostitutes are world-class in this respect.

If you get the vibe that this girl wasn't being straight with you, the safe money is that she wasn't. You just didn't figure out what her game was.

Kenn

06-27-04, 13:04

CaptainNemo

Please, Please, Please, Please....... don't buy into the BS........

They just had a guy from Switzerland murdered by his girlfriend... and some other guy.. Maybe her real boyfriend?
They tortured him for 30 min. to get him to open his safe before they robbed him of nearly 50,000.reais and then threw him out a 7th floor window.........

This is only one of MANY, MANY stories about guys buying into the BS.

Starfe

06-27-04, 14:54

Fartknocker,

Proboably the best post I have read regarding my favorite hobby.

It should be mandatory reading on every hotel room door just like " emergency exits in case of a fire. "

Starfe

Sleip

06-27-04, 15:26

Some have to learn it the hard and expensive way.

I have learned my lession already.

Wanderer1000

06-27-04, 16:23

Fartknocker -

I think there should be an introduction page that each member has to read before they can get into the general forum - basically a warning page with posts like yours --- great post - we all need to be reminded to keep our heads out of our asses. I´ve been in Rio for a week and a half, and I have several more weeks to go - good to have a reality check.

Nice Guy Ed

06-27-04, 20:04

Hello fellas,

I've read through the many of the threads here and taken some notes. Great insight. You are all doing a wonderful service.

I was hoping one of you could give me some specific advice. Here's my deal:

I'm a 27 year old American Indian male. My best friend/ girlfriend (very open relationship) of 10 years and I are planning on moving to Sao Paulo. Tentatively, we are hoping to live there for 2 years. We plan on moving in about 18 months from now and have just began learning Portuguese and studying Brazilian culture. We currently live in Brooklyn, NYC.

I understand that the VISA issue will be a problem for us since we would like to stay longer than 6 months. Does anyone have any insight on a way to make this work?

We are not going to need to find jobs as I'm a web developer and multimedia production specialist and make my living from the internet. Will I still need a CPF number?

Could any of you recommend a few safe neighborhoods in Sao Paulo that we could reside in? A way to find a suitable apartment? Nothing upscale or spectacular, just a relatively safe neighborhood. We could easily afford $750 USD a month for rent.

Thanks in advance for any insight!

Ed

btw. Are brazilian pro garotas generally cool with spending an evening with a couple? :D

Nice Guy Ed

06-27-04, 23:58

Oh, I want to ask one more thing about finding somewhat safe neighborhoods to live in. Is it possible to find one that is near an area with an abundance of restaurants, nightclubs (nonsex) and live music?

I realize that like here in NYC, there are probably some nice neighborhoods but they are far from any hot culture spots.

Thanks! :)

Photo55

06-28-04, 13:35

The best neighborhoods to live in for foreigners in Sao Paulo are the Jardins and Itiam-Bibi. They both have an abundance of restaurants with-in walking distance, not to mention cafes and supermarkets. Itiam has more some more nightlife (clubs) than the Jardins. You can exist in both neigherboods without a car initially but because the size of the city eventually you will need a car.

With regard the visa situation. Typically you can't stay more than 90 days per visit on a tourist visit but can apply to the federal police for an extension (you have to go there in person and it isn't free but not very expensive, I had to do it once when I first arrived). But they definitely count the total number days you have been in the country on a calendar basis and will kick you out if you exceed 180 days. There was one american girl at the federal police HQ last time I was there and she had run over the limit. They gave her till the next day to leave the country. She was crying. didn't help. Perhaps if you are taking portuguese lessons from a registered school you might be able to get some sort of student visa (just a guess). I would recommend finding out about whether student or cultural exchange visas exist prior to arriving (talk to the embassy).

You need a CPF to do anything financial (such as bank accounts). Renting apartments are a very tedious process (This country is based on TONS of paperwork. So I would recommend getting your self and your girlfriend situated in a flat (lots of them in Itiam-Bibi and the Jardins). And then figure out the real estate market while you are down here. BTW, you can rent a nice apartment for $R2000 to $R2500 (taking into acount taxes and utilities) so your $750 should cover you just fine. Again there are cheaper neighborhoods but I do think the Jardins and Itiam-Bibi are the best places for foreigners to settle. Find yourself a despachante to help you through the process of renting an apartment. Near always requires a guarantor.

On the sex side double teams are so easy. One of the best things about Brazil is watching two girls pleasure each other.

Cheers,

Photo55

CaptainNemo

06-28-04, 14:37

Well, guys, I did not buy her BS. That's why I did not care about her story when I was with her. I did not give her more money or anything. She even paid for the lunch when we were on beach since I didn not have money with me.

Since I left Rio, she did not contact me. She must be really pissed at me, Or I am too smart to be hit for money.

The rule: BS or not, never spent more money than normal. If anything, always less.

If the girl is pro, someone else should see that kind of ID.

Cash Works

06-29-04, 02:39

Ed,

The best place to find out about Brasillian Visas would be the Brasillian Consulate. Since you live in New York, you would use the following:

Consulate General of Brazil
International Building
1185 Avenue of the Americas, 21st floor
New York, NY 10036
TELE: (917) 777-7777
FAX: (212) 827-0225
E-Mail: consulado@brazilny.org - All matters
Office hours: Mon-Fri 9AM-6PM except holidays

In the past, I've dealt with the Brasillian Consulate in DC and found them to be quite friendly and very helpful.

Good luck.

For those of you from other states, the website

http://www.ladatco.com/bra-consu.htm

has the addresses for the various consulates serving the different areas of the USA.

CW

Nice Guy Ed

06-29-04, 16:32

Thanks so much Photo55 and Cashworks!! Great info.

A couple more questions.

"You can exist in both neigherboods without a car initially but because the size of the city eventually you will need a car."

Isn't it true that it's now impossible for an American to get a license in SP or Brazil period? Surely, an American license won't do the trick. Any suggestions? What about renting cars? What's needed to do that and what's the prices? How about mopeds? Is a license needed to rent them? If we were able to aquire a car and the paperwork to drive it, how does car insurance work in Brazil?

As far as the VISA renewals go: Great idea about looking into student VISA's. I hadn't thought of that and am going to look into it for sure. Can you explain to me how the whole "leaving the country and rentering country to renew your VISA" works? I'm a little unclear on that process that I hear so many people doing. Surely you aren't coming back to the US for a week and then returning to Brazil every 3 months?? The airfare would be rediculious! Is it possible to safely go into neighboring countries for a few days and then return? Any suggestions on which neighboring countries/cities to go to?

Another question I have is about health insurance and medical care. What happens if one of us need medical assistance?

Finally, what paperwork is needed to get an apartment? Is leasing an apartment like it is here in NYC where you have to pay 1st months rent, last months rent, security, and brokers fee? Is it possible to get around having to get a co-signer since we will know absolutely nobody when we arrive?

Thanks again for your expertise and advice!

Ed

Fartknocker

06-29-04, 19:35

i'll tackle part of these questions.

first of all, i think having a car in rio/sp isn't completely necessary or desireable unless there is someplace you have to go during the day (like a job). traffic is beyond horrible during peak hours, and anytime you go out you are probably going to spend 30-60 minutes staring at somebody's bumper.

however, since most brazilians don't own a car, neighborhoods are usually pretty pedestrian-friendly. every neighborhood has a local grocery store, bar, bakery, etc. during the day you can walk, bike, or motorcycle around your neighborhood to do your daily chores. at night you can take a cab to anywhere you need to go.

a word on cabs. cab drivers are almost all independent businessmen, and competition is fierce. if you meet one you like, get his card and use him regularly. then negotiate a discount with him from his regular price. this can cut the price of transport quite a bit.

drivers license? hahaha! you obviously still think brazil is a country that works on laws. let me disabuse you of that notion. first of all, law enforcement in brazil is a "for-profit" enterprise. no cop is going to bother pulling you over for speeding when he could be beating some change out of the local drug dealer. if you do get pulled over, a r$ 20 note along with your foreign driver's license (or your library card for that matter) should do the trick. afraid of bribing the cops? don't be. that's how the system works down there. i have a 40 year old brazilian friend who has been pulled over many dozens of times in his life for really excessive speed. only once did the cop refuse the bribe and ticket him.

okay, on to the visa thing. if you are on tourist or business visa, you will only be able to stay in the country up to 6 months/year. leaving the country doesn't help. (this ain't thailand). you can stay 3 months, then go to the federal police and have it extended 3 months. then you gotta go, and you aren't elibigble to return the same calendar year.

i believe that student visas only apply if you are studying at a university. the verbage on the visa ap says "institute of higher learning" -- ie, not a language school or vo-tec place. there are an number of ways to get a permanant resident visa, and all of them are difficult. i posted a link here to an article on brazzil.com. scroll down and have a look. also, visit your consulates web page. they have all the info you need.

somebody else will have to help tell you about medical insurance and apartment rental.

Fartknocker

06-29-04, 21:58

Intresting article on Brazzil.com

http://www.brazzil.com/2004/html/articles/jun04/p159jun04.htm

I'm sure many of you heard about the 56 year old Swiss expatriot who recieved a "flying lesson" from his 30 year old girlfriend and her thug boyfriend. Unfortunately the gentleman's "landing" didn't go so well -- when he hit the pavement seven stories below his high rise apartment.

Remember what I wrote in a previous post about trusting Brazilians? If you are even thinking about moving to Brazil, you need to know that this sort of shit happens. Brazil ain't Kansas, folks. You need to keep your wits about you, or you'll wind up joining the "Brazilian Air Force" too.

Nice Guy Ed

06-30-04, 20:17

Thanks for the great insight, FK! :)

I'm going to see the NYC Brazilian Consulate next week.

I wonder this: When you say a tourist VISA has a three month duration and can be renewed for another 3 months (up to 180 days) and after that you must leave the country, when can you come back? Is it the next calander year? If so, would it possible to go to Brazil say in July and renew the VISA to 180 days (which would make it end at the end of December) and then just start over with a new tourist VISA/extension for the following 6 months from January to the end of June?

Heh, probably not.

Oh, and this might sound ignorant but do need the VISA just to be able to work? Or do I need it for other things like banking, apartment, utilities or just to reside in the country. I ask because neither of us will need a job since our work is via internet.

One more thing. I've never gotten a passport before. How long is that good for?

Thanks again, fellas. I appreciate your expertise.

Ed.

Fartknocker

07-01-04, 04:31

NGE, my understanding is that the visa limit is by calendar year, so what you described should be possible. Check with someone at the consulate to make sure before you sign a long term lease.

A visa gets you in the country. Period. You do not have permission to work on a tourist visa, and you wouldn't want to anyway. Most jobs in Brazil are pathetically low-paying compared to the US. That's why the local women are willing to fuck us for pocket change, see?

Since you don't have a passport, I assume you've never been to Brazil. I hope you aren't one of these deluded romantic clowns who thinks Brazil is some kind of picture postcard paradise. Read some of my previous posts on the dark side of this beautiful country. Brazil will chew you up and spit you out if you don't keep your head on straight. A lot of things you probably take for granted -- like a working legal system, well-functioning government services, and a generally trustworthy fellow man -- simply do not exist there. My advice would be to take a few long vacations there before you even think about settling down.

Snooky

07-01-04, 14:12

US Passport is good for 10 years. Tourist visas are for 5 years. Sometimes they try to give you the 6 month visa (same $100 price) just tell them that you plan on making may trips to South America and Brazil will be one of the places that you will be traveling to a number of times over the next 5 years.

Nice Guy Ed

07-01-04, 19:58

Thanks again for your continued advice, fk.

"Since you don't have a passport, I assume you've never been to Brazil. I hope you aren't one of these deluded romantic clowns who thinks Brazil is some kind of picture postcard paradise. Read some of my previous posts on the dark side of this beautiful country. Brazil will chew you up and spit you out if you don't keep your head on straight. A lot of things you probably take for granted -- like a working legal system, well-functioning government services, and a generally trustworthy fellow man -- simply do not exist there. My advice would be to take a few long vacations there before you even think about settling down."

I'm definitely very well aware of all of this as is my girlfriend. We are fully prepared for this experience and intend on further studying the language and the culture for the next 18 months before we move. We also plan to take a 2 week trip there in about 9 months.

Coming from NYC (even back when it was bad here), I don't think we will experience an inherent amount of "metro-shock", that is, the shock of all of a sudden realizing you are in a massive, fricken city. I'm sure we will find it very hard to grasp and live with the government, legal system, social structure, etc. (regardless of the amount of reading/studying preparation) I guess to us that is part of the attraction. I may sound like a foolish American, but after having my fill of NYC, there doesn't seem to be any real place to move forward and experience something new and different unless we now move "backwards". Hence our choice in Brazil. oh, the garotas will be nice too! :D

Testure

07-01-04, 20:13

There is always this deate about whether the visa is valid for 180 days per calendar year or per period of 360 days. It would be good if it was per calendar year, but I believe the federal law is somewhat unclear on that point. When I renewed my visa last time in São Paulo for another 3 months they certainly counted the days per period of 360 days and so I only got 33 more days that time. As everything in this country this may very well depend on whom you are dealing with in PF that certain day. Some places may not be so hard on this extension, but I would certainly not count on it.

Photo55

07-02-04, 15:03

to Nice Guy Ed and others!

If you want to relocate to Brazil and are independent in terms of working and where you are based you probably should really explore the option of Rio. I live in SP and it really is an urban jungle and a tough place to live outside of the sexual options that the massage and boates provide which are only part of a full live experience. I have spent a lot of time in NYC and NYC is a much easier city. Sao Paulo really is packed on top of itself. If you do live here, try to join one of the city clubs. That being said, limited pluses relative to Rio do exist. Restaurant/nightlife scene (non-pro and probably pro as well) is much better in SP than Rio and the favelas aren't right on top of you although you still need to maintain the same security awareness.

I spent the first five months without a car and finally decided it was worth getting one. Again, you can definitely exist in some neighborhoods such as the Jardins and Itiam-Bibi without a car but it gets old. You definitely don't want to take the buses and walking is only an option in those neighborhoods and you are pretty limited as to what you can do (Really, this city is massive). Ask a maid and she will tell you she spends 5 hours on a crowded bus everyday getting to work and back to home. On the motorcycle option, something like 3 motorboys die each day. you'd be nuts to drive a motorcycle here, ditto with a bike (unless it was in the park). And cabs get very expensive (even with a discount) in terms of local money. Would you take cabs in NYC all the time. well, unless money isn't a problem. Probably not. and forget about the subway here. very limited.

Regarding Goettel's comments. yeah, very confusing over the per calendar year or the per period of 360 days. I never could figure that out. Sometimes it appeared they were counting on a calendar basis and other times per a period of 360 days. definitely is open to the Federal Police interpretation. I had to file some paperwork regarding my residency and the same guy at first rejected it and then another day accepted it (there were no changes in the documentation).

But I agree with your "adventure" mentality. I think it is good for people to live outside the US for a bit of time. Although I would say try not to get warped by the paid for sex industry here in Sao Paulo. There have been a lot of negative posts or better put "realist" posts on living in Brazil. Not sure I agree that all of the criticism is warranted. Living in the third world isn't easy. And Brazil is a country of extremes. The number of millionares is exploding due to the export boom but so is the number of have-nots. Most of the girls in the "industry" are have-nots just trying to compete in a society that spends more time showing of the other extreme. Walk around most parts of Berrini and you could easily be downtown in any US midsized city. But there is a favela just around the corner. So there is a culture of survivalism. A brazilian friend called is "survival capitalism". Just the edge of capitalism cuts a bit harder here than in most first world countries.

On a different Note-
Lastly, I must say that I can't stand it when guys moan about "over-paying" here or criticizing others that occasionally pay a little more than the "market" price. Usually we are talking about a differential of $R100 which is $US30. That $R100 usually means a lot more to the girl than you. Really, what is the big deal. yes, understand the fear of it cycling back into the market pricing. But really. "market pricing" is set collectively and related to supply/demand, alternative wage options etc.

Every negotiation is between one guy and a girl (or sometimes two girls). So let him pay what he wants. Let him take the advice of those communicating fair market value but also let me and girl sort it out. Some people just aren't good negotiators and will always overpay. But really, don't be a jerk and tear them to shreads for it. Heck. If anything congratulate the girl. just means she knows her pussy, ass and mouth are worth something.

Mongering doesn't inherently have to be about taking advantage of a girl. If anything should be about taking the pleasure of a girl while fairly compensating her for that act of her participation in that act of sexual pleasure. I hate it when a girl afterwards asks me for more money (I always say no) but I don't low ball her but try to pay fair market pricing and once the negotiation is done it is done. Don't I think there is anything cool or awesome about underpaying these girls. Really doesn't respect them.

And just because they are garotas de programas doesn't mean they don't deserve some respect. Like I said, the capitalism down here just cuts tougher and people have to do what they have to do. The ugly girls sell shit on the beach, work as maids, sell drugs, work as clerks in the stores making next to nothing or stay home popping out kids (sorry for the poor sucker that got her pregnant) work on someone else's farm (making less than next to nothing) and the more attractive ones have more options. land a suger daddy or at least get fucked and earn some good money.

Just because it is sunny, warm, and has lots of attractive girls, at the end of the day Brazil is a middle income developing country and all the good and bad that represents can either drag you down or make for a great life experience. Do what you will with it. But either way, you are in for a ride different than the ride in the USA or Europe. Of course not for all. Heck. no way I'm staying down here for the rest of my life. But for the time being, I'm not complaining and truly enjoy occasionally partaking in the sexual treats this mix of culture and economic circumstances has provided for me. like I said in an earlier post. nothing more beautiful than watching two brazilian girls pleasure each other, you and themselves. I sight I will happily repeat and fondly remember when I'm back in the USA.

Decent book to read is called "the Brazilians" by Joseph Page. Bit out of date, but does a great job exploring "Brazil". Myself, I'm just about to read Eleven Minutes by Coelho (been reported to provide insight on the garota mentality).

Nice Guy Ed

07-02-04, 16:55

Goettel,

So I'm assuming you tried to renew your 3 month tourist Visa at the end of November of that calendar year?

Fartknocker

07-02-04, 21:15

NGE, I'd second what Photo said. Sao Paulo is possibly one of the ugliest cities I've ever seen in my life. Rio is without a doubt the most beautiful. The reason people live in SP is because its the business hub of Brazil. When the weekend comes you'll find a lot of paulistanos trekking over to Rio or Guaruja to enjoy themselves. The only plus I see to SP is that they have some of the best restaurants in Brazil. However, the restaurants in Rio are perfectly acceptable, too. (and you get a view of something other than a concrete wall and an overpass)

As far as transport, my advice on using a motorcycle was limited to your local neighborhood. To take a moto out on the freeway is to tempt the Grim Reaper. That being said, the moto boys are known for the insane stunts they pull in the middle of traffic, so its no wonder they don't live long. Photo is right that taxis get to be expensive in Reis, but if you are earning income in dollars you probably won't care.

As far as pussy possibilities, maybe SP is better than Rio, but I have yet to find anyplace in Brazil where it isn't easy to get laid.

Nice Guy Ed

07-02-04, 21:49

Once again, excellent insight guys!

Photo & fk,

This is exactly why I'm asking these questions 18 months before my tentative leave date. Thank you.

I think I may have been struck with too much of the U.S. "Go Big or Go Home" mentality. I shouldn't have so quickly overlooked other cities in the country opting for the biggest, SP. I'm beginning some research on Rio and Fortaleza as we speak.

Let me ask you this. If you were my age (27) and:

-Had a girlfriend of 10 years (very open relationship) moving with you in 18 months

-Knew Portuguese at the level of 18 months of daily practice.

-Worked independently making around USD $50,000 per year

-Was interested in nightlife, good foods, music, a ethically diverse culture and of course, a place that is moderately safe. (I use moderate very loosely and am aware of the dangers in Brazil.)

-Partook in 1 garota per month on the sex end of things. (Yeah right.)

What would be the top 3 or 4 cities to investigate in your opinion? It's been taking me a lot of my time to research all of this, so any direction would be greatly appreciated.

I know it's a very subjective scenario because you are not me, and don't necessarily share the same interests, but hey, it's worth a shot. The insight I have gathered from this board has been far more straightforward and informative than many of the other resources I have been reading. I've really learned from many of the experiences and opinions posted on this board and find it (for the most part) to be presented with objectivity.

One final thing. I've read quite a bit about SP & Rio's rain seasons. What's the real deal with the weather down there? I mean, of course I know about the heat and humidity. But, I hear of extreme weather and flooding problems in the cities. How extreme is this? How hard is it to adjust to the climate changes coming from an area like the northeastern, US? Does the northeastern coast of Brazil offer a bit more of a relief when it comes to weather extremes and seasonal changes?

Thanks again for your comments and any addition insight. :)

Ed.

Testure

07-03-04, 13:41

Nice guy Ed,

I had stayed in Brazil in October and November 2003 and came back in January 2004. Then I renewed my visa at the end of March (remember - you get 90 more days counted from the day you apply) getting only 33 more days as the total added up to 180 counting the days during the last 360 days period.

One idea (at least for Europeans as we don't need a visa per se, but can enter and then stay 90 days automatically and aren't monitored as thorough as Americans with photos and fingerprints) is to go out when your 180 days are over and then go home and make a new passport, whereafter you enter again without the old stamps in the passport. Your data are kept by PF based on passport #, name, birtplace and mother's and father's name, but they rarely look you up in the system as this would be a very time consuming process considering the amount of people going in and out of the country.
Or you make an emergency passport while in Brazil and then go out of the country without the PF being able to see how long you have been there.

Yet another option is to overstay and then pay the fine of 8.5 reais per day up to a maximum of 850 reais, but this only works a couple of times until you are likely to get banned out of the country. I have friends, who have used the first two options for years without any problems whatsoever. Some ended up taking use of the visa-amnesty coming regularly every 10 years or so. The word is there is another one likely in the near future.

Goettel

Fartknocker

07-03-04, 18:36

NGE,

If you really like the big city atmosphere, you only have two choices in Brazil. You have SP, a city of about 18 million, and Rio, a city of about 11 million. All the other big cities in Brazil are a lot smaller -- usually 2 - 3 million. The cities in "the interior" -- as they call anything that isn't SP or Rio -- don't usually have the level of amenities you will find in the two megopolis's. The really top-notch shopping, restaurants, theaters, etc. are in the big two.

Sao Paulo is the commercial center of Brazil. There is more of fast-paced, "get it done" kind of attitude than you will find in the rest of Brazil. (although a "Sao Paulo minute" is still a hell of lot longer than a "New York minute." Brazilians are just not as time conscious as Americans are.) SP has the best restaurants in Brazil, and the service anywhere you go is usually excellent. The down side is that SP is a concrete jungle from hell. Traffic is insane. Coming from a reasonably well-functioning city like New York, I really doubt you can imagine that any city could be this poorly planned. The weather is quite a bit more extreme than Rio, since SP is at a higher altitude. SP is also inland and has no beach. You have to drive about an hour to get to Santos/Guaruja to get your beach fix.

Rio, on the other hand, is the cultural center of Brazil. It really earns its nickname -- The Marvelous City. There were times I would just sit for hours out on the veranda of my friend's Ipanema condo sipping a caipirinha and looking at the scenery. The contrast of the mountains going right down into the ocean is just stunning. Life in Rio is a lot more laid back -- laid back to the point that most paulistanos think that cariocas are lazy-assed beach bums. Cariocas live to party, and Carnival in Rio puts to shame anything that SP can come up with. The weather is usually very nice year round, although it can get a little rainy and windy during the winter. Rio also has some absolutely gorgeous beaches.

As for sex, its everywhere in Brazil. You can't go wrong with either city.

So there you have it. Decide for yourself. Personally, I would always chose Rio over SP unless I had a job in SP I had to go to.

Vitor97

07-06-04, 00:11

Nice Guy Ed, I think what you are trying to do(Moving to Brazil will be a great move), but like everyone is saying there are lots of things you will have to overcome. I would personally stay there for a long vacation and make sure this is what you want before you sell all of your stuff, pack up your bags and start a new life.

I am also worried about you bringing sand to the beach, bringing a long term girlfriend to a place with tons of beautiful women is asking for trouble. In all of the 3somes I have had with partners, typically one female feels like you either gave the other too much attention or you had too much fun with her. Its a catch 22, Best of luck,

As for the guys who sent me PM's, I would love to arrange a large travel group, rent out a few condo's and have a great time. Get some cooks, house keepers, save our money for clothes, women, and liquor :)

Take care

V

CBGBConnisur

07-06-04, 00:39

Does anyone have any info about Porto Alegre or Curitiba?

Lorenzo

07-06-04, 07:33

CBGBConnisur,

I was in Curitiba in March 2003, stayed at the Eduardo VII hotel, which is a classy old hotel downtown that is garota friendly. I called www.classisex.com.br, got a different girl on two successive nights. When I called to arrange for a girl to come to my hotel, I found it was necessary to speak Portuguese to the lady doing the booking, since she spoke not a word of English. Neither did either of the 2 girls.

Much to my astonishment, the first of the two girls wouldn't kiss! This is the first and only time this ever happened to me in Brazil. She have BBBJ and CFS, but no kissing; I guess she'd rather have a dick in her mouth than a tongue. When I booked the second girl, I complained about the first one not kissing. The booking lady said that some girls kiss and some don't, so I need to specify that I want this when I book. It's been a long time now, but I think the rate was about R$200 plus taxi fare, for 2 hours, which I think was a bargain, considering that the girls were young, pretty, and, except for the kissing incident, into sex. Girls in Curitiba tend to be much more European in appearance and less Latin than the girls in Rio. They also tend to have less personality, are less sophisticated and more stupid. I am pretty good at making small talk with Rio girls, but in Curitiba the small talk fell flat. They just didn't seem to have a lot to say.

One non-sexual experience I would strongly recommend, if you're going to stay in Curitiba for a few days, is the train ride from Curitiba to Paranagua, which is on the coast. There's nothing much to do in Paranagua, so you can just have lunch and take the train back to Curitiba. It's the ride itself you'll be going for, not the destination. You can find more information in the Lonely Planet guide to Brazil.

Lorenzo

Rio Nut

07-06-04, 23:06

That is because Curitiba girls, and girls in the south of Brazil generally, are much more cold and not impressed by foreign men. The service is similar to Amsterdam. Quick and business-like. In fact, if you want Curitiba girls, why not just go to Amsterdam? Curitiba and Parana girls especially have a reputation for being COLD FISH. Not recommended at all in my opinion. I enjoy Rio and north.

CBGBConnisur

07-06-04, 23:21

I just arrived in Rio today and I have three words to say: HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! This is the most fucking amazing place on the Earth!! The people here are nice too. I thought Mexico was cool but no more, Rio is the Shiznit!!!

Fartknocker

07-07-04, 07:20

Funny thing is that a lot of Rio/Sao Paulo guys go for the Southern girls -- mostly because you have a lot more natural blondes down south. What is it about latin guys and blondes? I swear its like waving a fucking red flag at bull. All the latin guys I know -- from Mexicans to Argentineans, from Cubans to Brazilians -- seem to have a fetish for blondes.

A guy I knew was making some extra cash running a little mini escort service on the side of his normal business running a bar. He was importing a few of those natural blondes from Porto Alegre up to RJ state and selling their asses at premium price to rich Brazilian men who were bored with the typical dark mixed-race girls that are so common around Rio. Worked out pretty well until he got busted by the local police. It sure cost him a pretty penny to buy his way out of that mess.

Member #4141

07-07-04, 19:01

To all,

I'm writing to express my interest to relocate to Brazil. I have a college education from an accredited four year university. I can't speak portugesse but willing to learn. I have two years of management experience as a lifeguard also posses (CPR, lifeguard training, and water safety instructor certificates). My primary focus is in the area of aquatics. However, my experiences encompasses in purchasing, safety, and quality management. Any help or information will be welcomed.

Thank you

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to add standard capitalization throughout the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using the "chat room" style of writing with no capital lettering. Thanks!

Almotu

07-09-04, 06:53

Fartknocker,

I think you answered your own question. The Carioca men get bored of the hot morenas and lust after blondes. Why do you think a lot of garotas are bottle blondes? People always want something that they normally can't have or don't get. Asian men tend to go for blondes as well while white guys get the yellow fever and go to Thailand, et al. I personally go for whomever I think is hot regardless of skin or hair color. Looks aren't everything as well. Having a good attitude and enthusiasm for sex can compensate for the lack of great beauty. Don't get me wrong - even the best attitude can't help UGLY, now :o)

Later,

Almotu

Dark Knight

07-10-04, 01:21

2216,

With all due respect, those credentials will earn you close to zero in Brazil.

You may want to consider signing on with a multi-national firm that does biz in Brazil and working in country as an expat. There are several websites that advertise for people who want to work/live overseas. Also, you can simultaneously develop your language skills while searching. You will be a MUCH more attractive candidate if you are bi-lingual.

Your degree in dogpaddling won't earn you megabucks.

Brazil Specialist

07-10-04, 14:05

Member #2216

it might be a good idea you learn the language of the country before looking for a job.

What would you suggest an illegal chinese, or a chinese tourist, that speaks no English but is looking for a job in the US??

Your only chance would be with totally tourist oriented work. Actually, you probably need to free-lance, as nobody would hire you without a work permit.

Find a rich gringo who needs a lifeguard for his pool. Still he would not want to give you a translator to communicate with the cleaning personell.

Or some diving or cruise company, Club Mediterrane (sp?) etc.

Fartknocker

07-10-04, 16:46

You know, the thing I can't figure out is WHY all these people who:

A. Don't know Portuguese
B. Haven't spent a significant amount of time in Brail
C. Don't have a clue what they will do once in Brazil

want to move to Brazil. Are all you people nuts? Why Brazil? I personally moved to Brazil for a short period of time due to a business opportunity. What I found is that Brazil is a lot like the rest of the world -- only poorer.

The thing I liked about Brazil was MY change in status. I went from being Joe Nobody here in the US to being a highly desireable "rich" American. The ease with which I got laid was probably the best thing about the experience.

But the experience did NOT make me want to stay in Brazil full time. It made me want to come back to the US and work twice as hard to upgrade my status HERE. Believe me, there are a lot of drawbacks to being a "rich" guy in a poor country. Being a rich guy in a rich country, though, . . . well that's pretty cool.

Elmo

07-10-04, 21:37

I agree with what Fartknocker says.

Brazil is so great for average middle class westerners because, for those few days or weeks while in Brazil, you suddenly become just like the rich elite back home. You get to live like rock/movie stars back home live for those few days/weeks. Then you go back home to your normal existence. And, as Fartknocker said, hopefully try and raise your standard of living back home to that of the rich elite level - or at least so you can afford more frequent trips to Brazil!

But daily life in Brazil is not the same thing as a quick fantasy vacation to Brazil. The average monthly wage in Brazil is something like $200-250 a month. For most of Brazil's 170+ million people, life is very difficult - hard work, long hours, low pay, and grinding poverty - with hardly any social services and a law enforcement designed to maintain order in society - not to fight crime or assist the public in need.

To everyone who wants to move to Brazil without:

1) Having visited there first , and...
2) Knowing hardly any portuguese.

I recommend renting the academy award nominated Brazilian film "City of God" and watching it with the subtitles turned OFF.

You will have no idea what is going on around you (just like if you were in Brazil with no language ability), and you will be depressed by the grinding poverty and crime you see. You will probably throw any idea about going to Brazil out the window.

Then watch "City of God" again, this time with the subtitles on so you can follow the movie. It is an excellent multilayered story - along the lines of Pulp Fiction - that well deserved it's award nomination. It offers a lot of insight into Brazil and Brazilian life.

On the other hand, if you can get a job for a year or two in Brazil with a multi-national corporation - and thus are able to lead the good life in Brazil for a while - go for it!

Vitor97

07-11-04, 19:19

I dont know if I was lucky or what, maybe it was where I stayed and who I was with, but I felt like I had to go out of my way to get into the bad areas or see the Ghettos. One Friend I visited there had a beautiful apt on the side of a MT with a great view of the largest flavellah in Rio. I stayed in Leblon and mostly relaxed and hung out there or in Barrah during the day and ran into Copa at night. I love helping people especially kids so make sure you buy some kids lunch, buy them some toys, and give them your left overs. I had a one armed kid juggle 3 tennis balls in front of my car while the light was red, I gave him 20R, and then some other little kid came over to the car couldnt juggle but he tried, gave him a leftover steak,and yuca. As he got about 10ft away from the car he was jumped by his buddys as 5 little kids tore into that steak like it was the first meal they have had in days.
I think the interest to live in Brazil is because of the idea that on 2-5000$ US you can be a king. I agree with everyone else though, if you live here it wont be as enjoyable, exciting, and you will eventully become an easy target. As for work or things there are quite a few schools in Brazil looking for english teachers, pay isnt that great but enough for an apt and food, and if you have savings can really help you out, but dont count on getting perm residence.

Rabo Verde

07-12-04, 11:22

convicted of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123),
brazilian doctor finds
way to remain free

under 1940s law, marriage
resolves the damage;
who paid for weddings?
by matt moffett
staff reporter of the wall street journal
july 12, 2004; page a1

trindade, brazil -- back in 1997, boadyr veloso, a politically prominent 60-year-old physician, was becoming well known to people in the rundown barrio of palmares. he was the man who paid young girls for sex, using the alias "dr. fernando."

one of the girls, gislaine carvalho da silva, 13 at the time, said in a statement to the district attorney that she agreed to a rendezvous with dr. fernando after friends promised she'd get $90, along with food and her favorite soft drink, guarana.

in november of the same year, undercover police caught dr. veloso taking a 14-year-old girl into a motel. in a rarity for a judicial system that often overlooks sex crimes involving influential people, a state court in 2000 convicted dr. veloso of what americans would call statutory [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123), involving seven young women. he was sentenced to 10 years and eight months in prison.

but then, in a thunderbolt decision in february this year, the state's highest court nullified the sentence. what got dr. veloso off the hook wasn't a newly discovered witness or a dna test. it was that all seven young women had since married. dr. veloso avoided doing time because of clause viii of article 107 of brazil's 1940 penal code, which says that a sex criminal's punishment may be canceled if the victim subsequently weds.

the marriage provision harks back to a time when "a woman's destiny was marriage, and a woman who was raped lost her chance to fulfill that destiny," says brazilian congresswoman iara bernardi. "so marriage was seen as resolving the damage of sexual abuse."

adding to the outrage over dr. veloso's case are the suspicious circumstances of the marriages. three of the women were married by the same justice of the peace in a 30-minute period on oct. 5, 2001. the justice performed the marriages of three others on oct. 17 that same year.

in may the office of brazil's attorney general said that canceling dr. veloso's jail time was "revolting and absolutely unjust." alleging that dr. veloso himself was behind these marriages, it appealed to a federal court to reinstate his punishment. the case is still pending.

dr. veloso, saying that he has been the victim of unfair press coverage, agreed to a brief telephone interview. he said his accusers have made inconsistent statements in describing his actions. he maintains that overzealous prosecutors are manipulating the young women. as for the marriages, he says, "there is nothing illegal about them." dr. veloso denies that he ever had any sexual contact with the young women who accused him. he says he is not guilty of the charges on which he was convicted.

the case is spotlighting a broader issue in latin america, where mistreatment of women is still reinforced by archaic laws, as well as by broadly accepted judicial customs. women's-rights advocates say that outdated laws set the tone for wider discriminatory practices by police investigators, judges and juries.

judges handling [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) cases often interrogate women about their skirt length rather than the violence done them, says juliana belloque, a sao paulo attorney specializing in women's issues. a recent study by ms. belloque and a colleague found that juries frequently acquit men in domestic violence cases on grounds of "legitimate defense of honor."

repealing clause viii has become a pressing issue for women's-rights groups. last year, ms. bernardi sponsored a bill to do away with it that may come up for a vote before the full house later this year.

police broke the veloso case in november 1997, when they followed a 22-year-old woman suspected of being a procurer for the physician and a young girl as the two were picked up by dr. veloso in his car and taken to a motel, according to the investigation report. the desk clerk stalled the officers when they entered, and the girl's subsequent testimony indicated that he had alerted dr. veloso. dr. veloso and the supposed procurer were arrested while trying to drive out of the motel parking lot.

later, police found the 14-year-old girl that dr. veloso had picked up hiding in a back room of the motel. she told police she had been offered $90 to have sex with dr. veloso, and that she had disrobed. but by the time the officers arrived, no sexual act had taken place, she said. in 1999, a state court acquitted dr. veloso of charges of corrupting a minor. one reason cited by the court was that the girl had later married the brother of the suspected procurer.

dr. veloso faced more serious charges in another state court. seven other palmares barrio girls came forward and told of sexual encounters with dr. veloso. several of them had identified dr. veloso after seeing him on tv after his arrest. since some of the seven were under the age of 14, brazilian law allowed prosecutors to charge him with [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123).

notwithstanding the charges, in october 2000, dr. veloso was elected mayor of goiás, a central brazilian colonial tourist town about 80 miles from trindade. he remains mayor today. "these are not the most well-informed voters," says rodrigo santana, an opposition councilman in goiás. "they voted for him because he was wealthy and they thought that would make him less likely to steal from them."

in december 2000, about two weeks before dr. veloso's inauguration, he was convicted of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and of inducing the young women to commit prostitution. (dr. veloso is still contesting a 30-month prison sentence on the prostitution conviction.) the state court in its opinion cast doubt on retractions of the accusations that were signed by the victims' mothers and presented during the trial by their attorney, eliane ferreira rocha. the court said there was reason to suspect that dr. veloso had paid the victims to change their stories.

since the conviction, dr. veloso, still a free man as he fights the ruling, has found a new legal tack. one of the barrio girls he was allegedly involved with in 1997 had married in 1998. in september 2001, the other six, with the help of ms. ferreira rocha, sought marriage licenses from trindade notary public márcio ricardo de oliveira freitas. mr. freitas says the women didn't seem to be coerced. indeed, some of them were already living with the men they were marrying and had children with them. but he adds that ms. ferreira rocha was clearly in charge of the paperwork, and of transporting the women and their family members to the notary's office. "she said she was the godmother and that paying for the weddings was her gift to the newlyweds," he says.

in an interview, cleucelene adorno de lima, one of the young women who was married in the second wave of weddings, remembers the ceremony as a "special moment." just 15 minutes after ms. lima was married that morning, her sister, another of the young women in the veloso case, tied the knot. the justice of the peace broke for lunch and then married the last of the young women in the afternoon.

in its appeal to have dr. veloso's sentence reinstated, the attorney general's office cites an article by the brazilian magazine época asserting that one of the young women had said ms. ferreira rocha funneled money to them from dr. veloso to get them to marry.

maria gorete alves, the mother of one of the young women and the mother-in-law of another, told the wall street journal that ms. ferreira rocha has served as a conduit for "installment payments" from dr. veloso. "but if i open my beak, i won't get another cent," she added. ms. ferreira rocha declined to be interviewed.

ms. alves's daughter-in-law, ms. carvalho da silva, now 20 years old, said she had no idea that her wedding would help dr. veloso evade punishment. for her, escaping the consequences of the [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) hasn't been so easy. neither she nor her spouse has a job, and they believe that has something to do with the stigma of her widely publicized case.

"we just want to live like normal married people," said ms. da silva, who was pregnant and puffing a cigarette while watching tv in her bare living room. "is that possible?"

Vitor97

07-12-04, 18:06

Does anyone understand the Mortage process In Brazil? I run a real estate company here in Washinton D.C, and from what I understand buying a home is extremely hard unless you come with cash? I asked a few of my lenders and None of them would want to sposor an out of country loan on such a home. Im trying to buy a vacation condo in Barrah.

Lorenzo

07-13-04, 08:47

Vitor97,

Regarding your question about mortgages in Brasil, I was told by a couple of GDPs who have been successful enough at their trade to buy their own homes that they had to put 50% down and financed the rest with a 20-year mortgage with interest rates about 4-5%. They also tell me that, unlike in the US, mortgage interest and property taxes are not deductible from Brazilian federal income taxes.

I have not checked this out, so I don't know how typical this is. I am just repeating what I was told. I have been trying to find out much the same thing myself, because I would like to buy a place in Rio. You can review real estate prices by checking the classified ads in the websites for O Globo and Jornal Do Brasil. Condos in Rio are, not surprisingly, much less expensive than in a comparable US city. It appears that you could buy something decent in Copacabana or Barra for somewhere between US$100,000-130,000, for something that would be near a million in, say, San Diego. If I find more I'll post it.

Lorenzo

Java Man

07-13-04, 19:29

Vitor97:
There is a site where you may be able to find the info you seek. Unfortunately it's a paysite:

www.lifestylesbrazil.com

It's run by an E. European ex-pat living in Brazil. He comes highly recommended by other ex-pats in Brazil. His business is helping people buy property, making sure they have the right paperwork, ect. He has a free message board. I suggest you post some inquiries. I think that he'll give you some general info and then you'll need to start paying him some how. His yearly subscription cost $79.95 BTW, with a 30 day money back guarantee.

also checkout his brazil real estate link.

Vitor97

07-14-04, 03:23

Thanks for the help gentleman, I was speaking to a Brazilian friend of mine and he tried to explain to me some sort of ownership lottery system they work there where you pay something each month and if you number comes up you get to buy the place and keep up on the payments. I just want to add another property to my portfolio, and I hate renting.

Fartknocker

07-14-04, 23:00

Vitor, the "financing" you are talking about is called a "consorcio." One of my gf's used to work for Consorcio Volkswagon, so I'm vaugely familiar with the concept. Its most common for cars, but virtually any asset that can be financed can usually be bought through a consorcio.

The idea is that you and everyone else in the consorcio make payments every month, just like regular financing, but only a few people in the consorcio actually recieve the goods. As you mentioned, there is a lottery to decide who gets to take delivery in any given month. Once you have made enough payments to actually buy the asset outright, you automatically are one of the people who take delivery that month. If you want to increase your chances of winning the lottery, you can make a bigger payment that month.

The reason for this crazy system of finance is that interest rates are insane in Brazil, and most people can't afford large payments. A typical rate of interest on a car loan is 25-30% APR. With a consorcio, everyone makes much lower payments since the consorcio is paying interest only on the assets that have been delivered. So its like a combination of a layaway plan with a lottery. The people who win the lottery get their item off of layaway before it is fully paid off.

To an American of European with access to a 1st-world credit system, a consorcio makes very little sense. The consorcio will be taking your payments and using your money without paying you any interest, and you will have no idea when you will actually recieve the asset.

You would be better off using unsecured credit (credit cards, signature loan, etc) or secured credit on your existing assets (2cd mortgage on property back home) to come up with a big down payment on the property you want in Brazil. (say 50% of the purchase price). With this kind of cash, you have the leverage to work some kind of financing deal with the owner of the property. Owner financing is very common in Brazil, but you need to have some real cash-in-hand to be taken seriously.

Raiders

07-16-04, 15:53

I don't understand what the fascination with Rio is for gringos looking to live in Brasil given the safety issues and higher cost of real estate. It is a given that the beaches are nice and of course the women are great but there are other cities where you can find great beaches and women without the hassles of Rio.

Raiders

07-16-04, 21:48

The north of Brasil has some great beach towns but it is too hot and humid for my tastes, others may enjoy this type of weather. Close to Rio, Buzios is pretty nice, however, i prefer some of the smaller cities in Santa Cantarina and Rio Grande do Sul such as Blumenau and some of the suburbs around Porto Alegro although these two areas are not on the beach. Some of the smaller beach towns north of Floripa have awesome beaches and reasonable living costs. Of course Floripa itself is great although it is even more expensive than many parts of Rio in the nice parts of the island.

Of course garatos de programas aren't as plentiful or usually as beautiful in these smaller towns as in Rio, however, most single foreign men who live in Brasil don't monger as much as those who are only in Brasil on short vacations. Also many of the gringoes I know who have been in Rio for a long time have ended up either living with a girl or dating non pros and don't monger that often. My point is that gringoes tend to fall in love with Rio based on it's positive attributes as a great short term mongering spot, but don't fully appreciate the negative attributes of living there before they purchase property in Rio.

IMHO the quality of life is better in many mid size and small brasilian cities, and even though you will definitely have much fewer mongering spots it's also likely that the importance of mongering spots and one's frequency of visits to them diminshes over time for those who live in brasil long term.

Bango Cheito

07-17-04, 05:58

Personally I like big cities. I'm not at ALL interested in anywhere with less than a few million people. The big cities are where the culture is.

Fartknocker

07-17-04, 22:42

basically i've said in previous posts the exact same thing that raiders said below. one can enjoy mosts of the benefits of rio without all of the problems by living in one of the smaller brazilian cities.

the reason most guys who live in brazil don't monger much is because pussy is just so dead easy to come by. once a guy can speak decent portuguese and is established with his own apartment and car, opportunities for non-pro tail abound. besides that, doing pros all the time kind of loses its appeal after a while -- too much like shooting fish in a barrel.

i guess i'm not "cultured" enough to appreciate the delights of rio. personally, i like to lie on the beach, go to bars and clubs, enjoy boating and [CodeWord117] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord117), and eat at good restaurants. that covers 90% of everything i do on a regular basis in brazil (beside chasing skirt). i can do all this in virtually any beach town in brazil. i'm sure rio and sp have more museums, artistic events, high society social gatherings, etc. my personal need for this sort of entertainment can be satisfied by a few weekend a trips a year.

so for me avoiding rio's traffic, pollution, cime and sheer size is worth the loss of "culture." i definitely prefer the smaller cities.

CBGBConnisur

07-18-04, 02:58

Does anyone have any intel on the skirt scene in Florianopolis? What's amount of money is neccesary to have fun in Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul?

John

07-18-04, 12:00

I moved to Rio on June 30, 2004. I am planning on staying here for another two months. Since I planned to live in Rio for at least three months I rented an apartment. I had planned on staying in a hotel for the first two nights and look for an apartment in those two days but as I was as at Apa hotel the reception guy (David) asked me how long am I planning on staying and I told him at least a week. David told me that he has a friends apartment which is available for rent. After negotiating with him some I rented a one bed apartment that can sleep up to 3 people for R$520 for one week. As my hotel was going to cost me about R$270 for the first two nights only I thought renting an apartment for one week is pretty good deal.

During this week I looked at several apartments and talked to several agents for a 2 bed room apartment. The problem in Copacabana is that most of the apartments have shitty furniture. By shitty I mean that you probably will see that kind of furniture in really low class by the hour kind of motels in America. The rent here is not cheap at all. Eventhough, I looked real hard I did not see anything decent one bed room for lesss than US$750 per month and nothing 2 bed room for less than US$1,000 per month.

I finally rented an apartment for US$1200 per month (that is R$3,600 per month) in Ipanema for a 2 bed room apartment that has decent furniture.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to capitalize the word "I". To avoid future delays, please use a capital "I" to refer to yourself in future reports. Thanks!

John

07-18-04, 12:11

I visited the following companies to rent my apartment.

Copacabana Holiday: Mostly apartments did not have any good furniture. Let me also tell you guys this that the furniture shown on the pictures look good but when you visit the place it is very very cheap quality.

Rent a Flat: I don't mean to favor a company but this is the company i finally rented my apartment with and they have very good service in my opinion. They have taken real good care of any issues i have had so far. There web site is: www.rentaflat.com.br

Raquel Souza: This lady also has very good prices and pretty decent apartments she is my second choice to rent an apartment from. She always has some apartment offerings at www.latelet.com. From what I saw she has some good prices for beach front apartments.

The rest of the companies I contacted mostly either did not reply promptly or they quoted there prices in dollars and some did not even thought about quoting me a decent price. It does not necessarily mean they have bad service but I think there prices were too high.

John

07-18-04, 12:24

For the purposes of communications. I strongly recommend that if you don't have an unlocked phone that you bring from U.S. buy your cell phone here in Brazil. I bought a used cell phone here for R$200.00 with the current exchange rate of about 1US$=3.04R$ the phone cost me about US$67. The price of the phone also included a R$25 prepaid card that is fed inside the phone for initial use. Some of you that don't need to make outgoing calls that initial card might even be enough since incoming calls are free here in Brazil. So in effect you can ask your friends and family to call you here.

On a side note the company that I bought my phone from also told me that they will buy my phone back from me if I wanted to sell it to them after three months for approximately R$80 to R$100. So my net cost for the phone might end up being very low.

I can not currently find the contact information for this company but I will post it later.

J Wadd

07-19-04, 12:10

This is great stuff, John. Thanks for posting all this meat-and-potatoes info -- please keep us updated on new info.

TIA and go get laid!,
JWadd

Fulanito

07-19-04, 18:55

I am in Ecuador right now. Does anyone know where in Brazil I can rent a decent apartment for a reasonable rate? reasonable does not mean 500 per month. I pay that in the states! I mean 100 or 200, 300 max. Come on, I thought the whole south american continent was a third world country.

Fartknocker

07-20-04, 04:15

Fulanito,

Do you mean rent an apartment for US$100-300/month? Certainly you can rent apartments all over Brazil for this price. Roughly 30% of the 180 million people living in Brazil live in families that make less than 2 minimum salaries per month (R$520 = US$173). Obviously these 54 million people are not living in the streets, so there must be a hell of a lot of housing for US$100-$200 per month.

The question is whether or not you, a first-world citizen, are willing to live in the kind of apartment you can rent for US$100 per month. Do you want a 300 sq ft, one-bedroom apartment with the "kitchen" in the living room, with no air conditioning, and no furniture? Do you want to live in the seedier side of town, with minimal security, far away from the beach and other tourist attractions? Did you want to sign the legally mandatory 30 month lease, with penalties if you move out early?

No, you probably want a nice, first-world quality, 1000 sq ft, two bedroom apartment, furnished with central heating and air conditioning. You probably want solid security, a nice view, and a short walk to the beach. Oh, and you only want it for a few months.

For this you will be LUCKY if you find an apartment for US$500/month, even in a smaller town. For such an apartment in Rio, on a short-term lease, you will probably pay well over US$1,000 per month -- that is unless you wanted to stay during Carnaval. If that's the case, you may wind up paying triple that price.

Suck it up. It's the price of playing in paradise.

Rabo Verde

07-23-04, 02:11

"How many people would take a shit in a bathroom that 40 people used before you did?"

The same people who would DATY a working girl!

Java Man

07-28-04, 22:49

john:
i'm currently in Rio. Did you locate the telephone information you posted about earlier?

Johan

07-29-04, 22:35

It's been a while since I last reported anything and make a contribution back to the community. However, there are enough information on the girlie pussie report so let me be a little unique to focus on some aspects of "Living" or "Having Fun" in Brasil which is not commonly found in most of the reportings.

I have been asked by many friends (including on this board), which is better, Brasil or Argentina? Also, which are the best cities to visit if it is my first time visit and on a certain budget. I myself had similar experience and asked the same questions. I did not quite get the answer until I decided to invest some capital on my own and really do the "research" myself.

First question, which was also the question I asked six months ago, Brasil or Argentina. My quick answer is definitely Brazil, Argentina is not even close however, if time and budget allow, Argentina is a good remote second choice. Personally, I found Brasilians a lot more friendly, outgoing, chatty and interested in gringos than Argentines. Compared Rio vs. Buenos Aires, even though both are great international cities, Rio is at least several notches better as a playland than B.A. Rio's beach, rich diverse international cuisine (difficult to get seafood, for example, in BA), dollar cost and finally, mongering option. BA is not at the same standard as Rio. Obviously, if you prefer a more European style city, more caucasian demographics, a beef/steak diet, more formally dressed locale, then you would love BA much better. However, if you are into multi ethnic, warm/hot girls, multi style play scene, then you can't beat Rio.

Now that we decided Brasil is the best, next question is what city in Brazil. In my asssessment (mostly the southern part of Brasil, never been to the Northeast except Recife), Rio again beats every other cities. Case in point, in Sao Paulo, it is still common to pay arm and leg for a girl would would stick to the clock, slash and burn and even no kissing. In Curitiba or Porto Alegre, whereas the girls are pretty, you are again, dealing with the professional clock watcher type. So, if your goal is mongering, nothing beats Rio, period. Or should I say, Rio is a no risk, win/win proposition whereas all the other places you are going to have some give and take.

What about regular girls. I read some comments from ths board that you don't need Portuguese and still pick up some local regular girls. I think the writers were referring to "working girls" as opposed to "regular girls". As most Brasilians do not speak English and if you do not speak Portuguese, I do not see how you even start to have casual conversations with the girls which is indispensible at any courtship. OK, if you have minimal Portuguese and not being shy to chitchat with people, again, Rio is your best bet. Whereas I had no problem picking up small talks with regular girls in south Brasil (Porto Alegre, Curitiba, Florinopolis), however, advancing to the next level is impossible especially given my limited time in their cities. For Rio, however, it's quite feasible. You can get the phone number of the girl, take her out to dinner and have a date with her all in the same day. Again, I am referring to regular girls, girls work in shopping mall, in a government office or in a bank. However, on most occasions, I seldom advance the casual date to the next level, again due to the time constraint. For example, if I stay in Rio for a week, I would be too busy running among all the fun places and spending time with the working girls (who treat me like their boyfriend) and to designate time with the regular girl is difficult as the regular girls usually keep a 9-5 job and only have time to hang out during the weekend. Thus, I totally concur with fellow members on this board who stated that gringos who live full time in Brasil usually do not monger as they have enough girlfriends. I can imagine that as getting girlfriends in Brasil is real easy but for us, short timers, our opportunity is limited by our time factor.

Last but not the least, what about Crime and Personal Safety? That, I have to give to BA (Argentina). Even CIA's World Fact Book states that BA's personal security risk level is two grades better than Rio or Sao Paulo. For me, as an uneducated gringo, walking down the street in BA, I feel no different from walking down Montgomery St. in San Francisco. Real safe. Although some local Argentine told me to be real careful as there were crimes against tourists. However, personally, I feel Rio and Sao Paulo to be a lot more risky than BA. May be this is just personal.

Not having made my posting for a long time, I hope this posting is useful to most of you. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions.

Boxing Rule 222

07-30-04, 07:46

johan
I did not know Brazil was know for their food?

Well to let other mongers know it is not kown for its food.

Another note Brazil has beaches but none are world class beaches.

If you want to make love to a woman with no education than by all means pick Brazil.

With Argentinan women you get women ( I am talking about women who are born in Argentina) who are intelligent and to some degree college educated. That is a rarity in Brazil.

Dollar cost BA have a better value. You can rent a nice apartment fo 500 US a month in a nice area. What would that get you in RIO. (again if you like beaches Brazil is not know for having the best beaches).

You can have world class food for a small fraction.
You can have great transportation for a cheap price.

You will feel safe in Argentina compared to RIO.

Panman

07-30-04, 08:35

Boxing Rule 222,

You can speak for yourself if all you've saw in Brazil were uneducated women. When mongers go to Brazil we are looking for pussy and fun. You can keep searching for brains if that really makes any sence to anyone spending few weeks in South America.

Bubba Boy

07-30-04, 11:41

Have to agree with Johan. Ba is my second choice, Rio definitely number 1. Johan forgot to mention the music, IMHO Brazilian music is the best there is and the woman know how to dance, man can they dance!

Trippleecks

07-30-04, 11:56

Boxing Rule 222

In Rio for $500.US a month you can rent a very nice 2 bedroom 2 1/2 bath apt. I know because that is what I pay for a very nice quiet apt. in Copacabana. I just signed another 30 month lease so I will be here for a while longer.

In Argentina you will find a different kind of woman. In BA, yes, a better educated type of woman but still with the typical Argentine attitude of superiority. I mean "stuck up big time". That seems to be the biggest complaint about Argentina. They are the French of South America.... Not too sure about other areas of Argentina but I would guess that in the outlying areas of Argentina, education is not a big priority either.

As for food, IMHO, Brazil's food is just fine. You are correct. It's not known for it's fine cuisine but it is known for it's very good plane and simple food. The kind of food that is plentiful on your plate and not too expensive.

Lorenzo

07-30-04, 21:11

Boxing Rule 222,

I couldn't disagree with you more about Brazilian food. One of the reasons I love Brazil is that it's a wonderful place to eat as well as fuck. The food is as choice as are the women. IMHO, feijoada is one of the world's great delicacies. That's why the Brazilians are smart and eat it only once a week, for the midday meal on Saturday. It's so rich that having it more often might kill you. (Then again, what a way to die that would be, one arm around a naked garota and the other feeding yourself feojoada.) For the best feijoada, go to the Saturday buffet at the Caesar Park Hotel.

The churrascaria is also a uniquely Brazilian invention. The best one is Mariu's in Leme. If you don't like meat or are health-conscious, Mariu's has an annex that serves only seafood. Porcao is an upscale chain where food is served buffet style and you can get meats cooked to order. There are 'lanches' all over the place, where food is priced by weight (of the food, not the person), and is relatively cheap.

But for my mind the best restaurant in Rio is Antiquarius in Leblon. It's very upscale, but reasonably priced by US standards. Take a very special garota there, one you me at a termas and made private arrangements with, who you would be proud to have seen on your arm. Definitely not a place for the trashy types from Help, they would definitely be out of place. Order the bacalhau (cod) or the cordeira (lamb), the two best items on the menu, and a wine to match. Pop your Viagra into your mouth just after you finish your appetizers and the entree has been served. Make a point of letting her see you do it and watch her beam from ear to ear, both of you thinking about the 'dessert' that awaits.

Brazilain food, Brazilian pussy. Ceu em terra.

Lorenzo

Johan

07-30-04, 21:29

Mr. Boxing and Mr. Nodd.

First of all, the opinion I wrote was purely my personal opinion. I certainly understand different people have different interests. For one thing, I myself loves fresh seafood, great dimension of vegetables and fruits and generally avoid red meat. I am not too much into "fine cuisine" but definitely adore fresh food from fresh ingredients. To that end, my experience in different parts of Brasil definitely provided me with the "hog heaven" experience compared with Argentina's. Quite honestly, during my last two weeks in BA, I was complaining to myself that it was all red meat and couldn't find a descent vegetarian and seafood restaurant, especially if you prefer the fresh food. So on the food count, this is quite personal and I do not expect everyone to share my palate.

Now that you raised this point, I found it awkward that some girls mentioned to me that they had some college and that they are "well educated". However, Mr. Nodd definitely articulated my observation that many of these girls are snobbish and eager to show you that they are not "your typical *****" (yes, I had girls talked exactly like this to me). This is during a time when we were just hanging out, sipping tea/coffee and making small talks. In my trips, I met many mongers who are highly educated and some did not go to college. I don't think many of us run around reminding everyone that we are educated persons. At the end of the day, it's the personality (be it men/women) that counts not the college degree. So, after a while, quite honestly, I got tired with this snobbish attitude. At the end of the day, we just want some GFE, hang out and fun time. If I want intellectual stimuli, I might go visit the Imperial Palace, Meuseum of Arts in Chicago or Ruins in Egypt. No need to hang in the night clubs in BA or Rio :)

Nonetheless, wherever you go, whatever you do. Keep safe and have fun.

Dickhead

07-30-04, 21:41

When evaluating Johan's opinion of Brazil vs. Argentina, keep in mind he is the same guy who spent four days with a gal in Buenos Aires and never fucked her.

Bango Cheito

07-31-04, 02:14

FWIW, Brazil and Argentina are known as the two best countries in the world for beef. Either way I don't think you could go much wrong for food.

CBGBConnisur

07-31-04, 02:36

Brazilian food isn't bad but its not the best food in Latin America, the best food is in Mexico, dishes like Puerco Pibil, slow roasted pork marinated in spices, Mmmmm, with a side of beans and rice, hot tortillas, and a tequila. The tequila might make you loco. I ate a lot of stuff from food stalls in Guadalajara and Mexico city and it was some good shit, better than the crap at Taco Bell. There isn't one Taco Bell in South America. However I kept a case of Pepto Bismos.

I have always tried to make Puerco pibil at home and it comes out like shit, its never the red tasty pork that you find in Mexico.

Fartknocker

07-31-04, 05:10

well, dickhead, if he stayed with an argentinian girl for four days and never fucked her, that just goes to prove how much better brazil is.

a rio hottie couldn't have denied herself dick for a whole 4 days in a row. she would have raped the poor bastard after 48 hours. ;-)

Boxing Rule 222

07-31-04, 06:04

Nodd_N
I meant short term renting.

Sorry for the confusion.

CBGBConnisur

07-31-04, 06:18

Boxing Australia's got the best beaches in the world but I think its the Great White Sharks that keep them that way.

Trippleecks

07-31-04, 14:21

Boxing Rule 222,
short term you will pay much more than $500.USD for a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom apt. for a month.

Mine was an unfurnished 2 bedroom apt. and I had to sign a 30 month lease to get it..... actually it's
1,100.r rent
338.25.r condo fee
68.86r IPTU Taxes
22.50.r seguro inc. ref (whatever the hell that is??)

1,529.61.r a month / 3 =$509.87.US a month.

Dickhead

07-31-04, 14:53

Fartnocker, Johan's buddy was not Argentinean.

Bubba Boy

08-07-04, 05:27

Does anyone have a internet solution when visiting Rio. I mean a place where you can take your own laptop and work. Internet cafes are fine for checking email but not for taking your own laptop.

Vitor97

08-07-04, 13:38

GoRIO,

On that note, isn't fried Yuca the most amazing side dish ever? Fried Yuca, Piccanah (Spelling) Bondequeso (Cheesebread) by the ounce, and dont forget fresh Coconut water.

Bango Cheito

08-07-04, 17:37

Many hotels will have broadband internet with the jacks in the rooms. Our hotel has it for free although its not steller service, it does work OK. I'm using it now actually.

Cash Works

08-11-04, 19:35

CBGB,

That seems to be one major misconception about Latin America - Everyone thinks the food should be Mexican!

18 years ago, I was working down there and one of the other gringos on my crew was livid because he couldn't get tequila in Brasil. His comment was "what kinda selfrespecting Mexican doesn't have tequila?" - he olny lasted one hitch.

Brasillians tend to be more into sweet stuff than spicy stuff (look at all the sugar in a caipirinha).

About 2 years after the tequila guy got shipped back to Texas, I was at a bar in Fortaleza that claimed to be an "American" bar - they actually had tequila and made a damned good Margarita - my Brasillian friends were shocked that the white crystals stuck to the rim of the glass was salt - they thought it should be sugar & refused to drink their Margaritas - being the thrifty young man that I was back then, I drank all 6 of them rather than let them go to waste - they had cuba libra's (rum & coke - nice & sweet).

There are parts of Brasil that have spicier food - Salvador in particular. I've had some chicken & rice dishes there as well as a number of seafood dishes that make me sweat every time I think about them. Sorry, can't remember the names of the dishes. They were very spicy, but nothing like Mexican food - more like Jamaican or African food.

CW

Sunset

08-12-04, 00:20

Bubba Boy

Most if not all inernet cafes wil let you plug your laptop into their LAN. Just show up with your laptop and ask of if necessary insist.

I suggest that you carry your laptop in a grocery bag. A leather case would make you a traget on the street.

Bubba Boy

08-14-04, 14:23

Thanks for the tip Sunset. I was actually thinking of doing that but a bit worried about security, not only would I have to be careful carrying it there, but would also have to be discreet within the cafe as someone will notice it and I may become a target later.

Sterling V

08-15-04, 10:29

bubba,

i brought my laptop the last time i was in brazil. i stayed that princess copacabana and would walk the two blocks to tudo e facil internet cafe on miguel lemos. they have three or four desks that don't have computers on them. they are just for people who bring in laptops. since you don't log in to their timer on a resident computer. it's an honor system. at the end of the session, you just tell them how much time you used.

for security, i would just carry my laptop in a college style nylon backpack. it was the same backpack i carried everyday in rio so i never looked like i was carrying anything unusual with me. it held my camera, terma gig bag, and maps, and sometimes a laptop.

this next trip i need broadband in my room for use of a vonage phone. i've opted for an apartment rental that has high speed internet. they are rare but you can find them. if you pm me, i'll send you the contact info for the two i've found.

sterling v

Latina Crazy

08-18-04, 15:57

Boxing rules wrote:

<quote>

ohan
I did not know Brazil was know for their food?

Well to let other mongers know it is not kown for its food.

Another note Brazil has beaches but none are world class beaches.

If you want to make love to a woman with no education than by all means pick Brazil.

With Argentinan women you get women ( I am talking about women who are born in Argentina) who are intelligent and to some degree college educated. That is a rarity in Brazil.

Dollar cost BA have a better value. You can rent a nice apartment fo 500 US a month in a nice area. What would that get you in RIO. (again if you like beaches Brazil is not know for having the best beaches).

You can have world class food for a small fraction.
You can have great transportation for a cheap price.

You will feel safe in Argentina compared to RIO.

</quote>

Hello to everybody!

I would like to give my own contribution to this discussion about Brazil vs Argentina.

I've travelled a lot in all Latin America, visited many times both Brazil and Argentina, mongered in Brazil and had some real GF in both countries. I speak very good Spanish and Portuguese and I know enough about the history and the culture of this 2 nations, I've also studied it when I was at the college.

My blood is 75% fully European (50% Italian, 25% a mix of Spanish and French) but the other 25% is Argentinian, 'cause my grandmother was from BA.

Last but not least, my actual GF is from latin America (Central America in this case) and one of my best female friends (which whom I have sex sometimes too ) is Brazilian, from Rio.

I have planty of friends from both countries.

For sure I will never understand totally the culture and the way of thinking of Latin American people as I was not born there, but every day I'm trying to get closer and closer to it, with no prejudices.

So here what I think about your topics:

About the Brazilian cuisine.

Brazil has not maybe the best cuisine in Latin America (IMHO the best and more fine cuisine in Latin America is the Peruan one) but I think that is much more varied than the Argentinian one.

Of course in BA you can find plenty of good Italian or Spanish or German and so on restaurants, but the pure Argentinian cuisine is not very rich, and if you don't like meat there's not a lot of choice.

In Brazil you have plenty of regional cuisines, from Amazonas to Rio Grande do Sul passing through Bahia and a lot of variety.

Buy "Quatros Rodas" Brazilian restaurant/hotel guide and try all the 1-3 stars restaurants you find there, you will change your opinion about food in Brazil.

About the beaches:

Just one month ago one very famous French tourism guide made a classifications of the best beaches in the world.

Brazil had a total of 4 beaches classified, the same number than France (don't forget that France owns ex-colonies like Thaiti or Guadaloupe), Italy, Greece and some famous tropical paradise nations (Maldives, Santo Domingo, Seychelles etc).

Go to Fernando de Noronha Islands, visit Morro de Sao Paolo, Mangue Seco, Canoa Quebrada, Jericoacoacora, Ilha Grande) and you will find some really beautiful beaches and unique landscapes, you will change your mind about Brazilian beaches.

Also think about Rio beaches: for sure they are not like Playa la Romana in Santo Domingo or Cayo Coco in Cuba, but how many cities of 10 million people can show a beach and a landscape like the ones you have in Copacabana and Ipanema? Just one in the world, Rio de Janeiro of course.

In Argentina there are no decent beaches, all the Argentinians with money go to Brazil or Uruguay when they want to go to a beach.
Argentina on the other side has very beautiful mountains and wonderful alpine style lakes, something you never find in Brazil.

About women and education.

For sure the average woman from Argentina is more educated than the average Brazilian one.

One of the good thing Argentina still has in spite of the economical crisis is a good educational system, more symilar to the European one than the Latin American one in general.

In fact Argentina is a strange country, a bit European, and a bit Latin American. Just think about the architecture of Buenos Aires and the Tango dance: both they have almost nothing to deal with South America.

A fuck is a fuck, but of course, before fucking maybe you prefer to go out to a fancy restaurant with a well educated college student from BA than a favela women that you can find in the Help disco in Rio. At least you will have something to speak about with the educated porteña girl.

But of course when the moment to go to the bed comes, the situation is different. Brazilian women are, IMHO, among the best in the world about sex. Sometimes a Brazilian hooker makes sex better than a real GF of another country.

I had various GF from Argentina and none of them was really hot about sex (probably I was unlucky). They were quite similar to some south European women (I mean, Italian or Spanish), so of course they were not a piece of ice like many nothern European women are, but nor they were a hot fire like some Brazilians girl you can meet sometimes are.

I prefer very hot girls, the type of girl who wants to have sex 3 times a day, who likes anal and likes to experiment all the positions, who loves to suck for a long time and always try to please you. This kind of girl IMHO is much more common in Brazil than in Argentina. Some GF I had in Brazil were really sex addicted, they liked sex more than me, and that's very strange LOL.

So, if you look only for well educated girls, for sure Argentina is the best choice in Latin America. If you look only for hot sex, Brazil is a good place to go. If you look for both qualities in the same girl, all the countries can be good, but you must be very lucky to find, and look for a long time.

Also if you have a real GF, sometimes girls from Argentina tend to be more faithful than girls from Brazil. I don't think I would marry a Brazilian woman.

About cost of living:

Both Brazil and Argentina are very cheap, compared to Usa and Europe.

Argentina, which used to be the most expensive country in South America, is now the cheapest one. Just consider that one Peso was equal to one Dollar just 3 years ago and now it's 3 pesos for one dollar.

Brazil tends to have very different prices from place to place, if you speak a good Portuguese and have Brazilian friends you can manage to save a lot of money.

About safety:

Rio is one of the most dangerous places in the world, also for a simple tourist, much more dangerous than Bogotà or Medellin or Mexico City, but safer than Baghdad maybe LOL.

BA was a fairly safe place until 5 years ago. Now it's as dangerous as Rio is in my opinion.

Rio and BA have now quite similar very high homicide rates (about 8 homicides per day in BA and 10-12 in Rio), with the difference that in Rio the 80% of the deads are among drug traffickers and policemen, while in BA it's easier to be killed just to take your money or steel your car.

Both cities are very dangerous, be careful, it's not a joke. It's interesting to know that in many years I have spent travelling in all Latin America the only 2 countries where I have been robbed and mugged are Brazil and Argentina.

So, concluding, I don't think that one place is better than another, they are just very different. Up to you to find your own paradise where you like to be.

Bye.

Johan

08-20-04, 00:20

Hi, Thanks for the Strong Response to my earlier posting concerning BA vs. Brasil.

First of all. Let's set the ground rule here. We know that, what "good" and "bad" can be purely subjective. Case in point, I prefer a seafood and "fresh" organic vegetarian diet, rarely eat red meat, especially beef, so, when I stated BA has very limited meal options, you have to take this into account. Obviously, for a red meat lover, he should discount all I stated (incidentally, I specifically pointed out that BA has lots of red meat oriented restaurant), however, for those seafood and vegetarian travellers, I believe my information will be extremely valuable to them.

I stand by my comment on the food choice, Brasil vs. Argentina. From my American gringo view point, Brasil's cuisine and diversity of food is like San Francisco whereas BA is like Omaha NE or typical American cities in the midwest. I would say, even Chicago has better restaurants and diversity than BA. Case in point, did not find many Indian, Chinese and Japanese restaurants in BA.

Education of the women. I have a different take on this. If we are interviewing for Ph.D candidate, may be BA women may win. Problem with BA women is, since they have "more" education, they manifest a degree of arrogance to those who are less educated. Truly educated people tend to be humble, modest and not anxious to show off. My experience was, the BA women were quite anxious to inform their clients that they have some college education. Brasilian are more modest and humble. I know personally, many of the WSG members are master, Ph.D background with professional standing, may be a woman with some college education may add some flavor to their encounter, I do not know. Personally, I wonder if you spend just a couple of hours with the lady, how the college degree kicks in.

One thing I do agree with many of BA lovers is, BA certainly, is a very nicely built and presented city. I do like the city a lot. However, the same can be said of San Francisco, New York, Toronto. However, for mongering, my personal preference is just not there.

Again, thanks for the strong support and comments.

Kenn

08-20-04, 13:56

Bubba Boy

why not just rent an apartment with Internet availability??

Bango Cheito

08-21-04, 02:08

I was born and raised in an Italian family. I can tell you Brazil does Italian food to a fucking T. They also have some of the best sushi you'll ever find, as well as meat and poultry on the same level as that of Argentina, which in either case you'll never find anywhere else in the world.

As for beaches, the best beach I've ever been to personally is Cabarete beach in DR. But I'm told that the best beach in DR is Playa Samana, but it's 4 hours each way, 2 hours in a car then 2 more in a ferry!

Fartknocker

08-22-04, 06:16

What is this nonsense about looking for an "educated" woman?

I spent most of my adult life in a classroom. One thing that I can tell you absolutely for certain is that not one day I spent on campus made me a better fuck. I have studied and worked with many brilliant, educated women -- many with advanced degrees -- and I can't think of a single one I would want take to bed with me.

The best sex I ever had with an American girlfriend was with a stripper I dated who barely made it out of high school. (I still get wood just thinking about her)

The best sex I've ever had in my life has been with Brazilian prostitutes.

The whole problem, IMHO, with romantic relationships here in the US is that everyone is trying to find that one person who meets his needs on every level. Guess what? She doesn't exist. You will never find a chick who is incredibily intellectually stimulating, likes all of your hobbies, is a responsible/nurturing mother for your children, and is also a world-class freak in bed. If you did find such a woman, chances are she wouldn't want to have anything to do with YOUR sorry ass.

If you want intelligent, interesting conversation, hang out with intelligent, interesting people (probably other men, to be completely honest). Then after you've had your fill of conversation, fork over the R$ 200 and go get your bells rung by the best fucks on the planet -- Brazilian putas. Why settle for a stuck-up ice queen just for the sake of a little conversation?

Gladiator

08-23-04, 00:25

Fartknocker,

I couldn't agree more with you. I find it funny when some guys prefer 'educated hookers', as if there was any correlation between their level of education and their sexual performance.

Yes, I know the conversations with educated prostitutes are not as stupid and basic as those with uneducated ones, but they are still stupid and basic: you can only talk about BS with a girl, regardless of her level of education.

In any case, I don't take long-haul flights in search of good conversation but in search of good sex, so to me the education of the hookers is absolutely irrelevant.

Kent747

08-23-04, 08:44

I would like to know how much I should expect to pay for monthly rental for a furnished apartment in Rio (preferably in Ipanema or Leblon). I don't need a luxury level place but would like a clean and efficient place. I would probably want a one bedroom unit with a kitchen and a bathroom.

Also, I would like to know where I should look to get a good deal for apartment rentals. I am sure gringo oriented agencies are more costly than Brazillian ones.

I need to find out housing expenses to make sure I can retire in Rio in the near future. I do not plan to live in Rio 12 months a year but plan to spend 8-9 months a year.

Anyone who can answer my questions will be appreciated.

Lorenzo

08-24-04, 20:41

A few words to those who may be thinking about retiring, or otherwise residing permanently, in Brazil: it's a lot harder than you may think. Let me go into a little detail.

I am an American nearing retirement age, with a Brazilian girlfriend I can't marry until at least 2006 because her divorce won't be final until then. (Because Brazil is a Catholic country, it takes five years from the time you file for divorce until the divorce can actaully be finalized; Brazil didn't even have divorce until the 1970s.) However, I would like to establish permanent residence in Brazil a.s.a.p. so I can reside there permanently. I'm currently here on a tourist visa for 3 months. This is my 10th visit to Brazil, so I know the place pretty well.

Now I have done my homework, so I know that there are a few ways to reside in Brazil permanently, or at least other than as a tourist. They are as follows:

--Marry a Brazilian; this will give you permanent resident status, but unlike a US Green Card, it doesn't give you the right to work. In fact, your Brazilian spouse has to sign a statement that she will support you.
--Father a child by a Brasileira. This will not only give you permanent status, it also gives the government the right to prevent you from leaving the country unless you can demonstrate that you can provide for the child's support until age 18.
--Retire in Brazil with an income of at least US$2000 a month. The money must be deposited directly in a Brazilian bank, or transferred there from an out-of-country bank. Retirement status does not give you the right to work. (More on this option below.)
--Invest a minimum of US$200,000 in a business in Brazil. In reality, this just means that you have to deposit that much in a Brazilian bank and keep it there; they don't really care if you start a business. This gives you permanent residence status.
--Work in Brazil doing something that a Brazilian can't do. This doesn't give you permanent resident status, but it does give you a work permit good for a certain period of time, usually one year, after which it can be renewed.

Now I had already decided on the retirement option. I had already decided that I could have my US bank transfer $2000 each month to a Brazilian bank account; this didn't mean that I would have to spend it. My GF, however, who is a very shrewd woman, has been telling me all along that it wouldn't be as easy as I think, so she arranged for the two of us to have dinner with a Brazilian lawyer who is a friend of her family. He lived in the US for several years and speaks fluent English. So we had dinner last night and I got a lot of free legal advice; all it cost me was a dinner at Antiquarius.

Here is what he had to say: If I choose the retirement option, I should be aware that the $2000 a month is taxable by the Brazilian government, at a rate approaching 30%. This means that I would be paying $600 a month in taxes to the Brazilian government. A totally unacceptable option, considering that the money has already been taxed by the US government. Marrying my GF is not an option at this point, and fathering a child is definitely not an option for me. We then went on to discuss other options.

I suggested that I just try to find a job teaching English, not for the money, since I know these jobs pay for shit, but just as a means of obtaining residence in Brazil. Meanwhile I would keep my money in a US bank and just withdraw it from an ATM when I needed money, thus avoiding Brazilian taxes.He explained the problem with this. When you work in Brazil, you have to obtain an identity number, called a CPF (mentioned elsewhere in this section), and deposit the money you earn in a Brazilian bank. He said that the Brazilian government keeps close tabs on bank accounts by computer, and when a person's expenses exceed what that person could possibly afford given their official income, the government will then call that person in and ask for an explanation of where that money is coming from. If you can't provide an acceptable explanation, then they will estimate what level of income you would need to maintain your particular life style, then tax you accordingly. Thus, not a good option.

We then proceeded to discuss the option of depositing US$200,000 in a Brazilian bank, ostensibly to "start a business." (I have app. US$300,000 in liquid assets, plus a retirement income, so I would have no problem doing this.) He strongly advised against doing this, because the account would be in reais, and the real is not a stable currency. This is indeed true, since I have seen the real fluctuate in value since 1998 from $1.01, down to $.25, and back up to $.33 as of today. Suppose I had deposited $200,000 in 1998 and kept it there; it would now be worth about $66,000. I also remember what happened in Argentina a couple of years ago, when the peso plummeted in value, there was a run on the banks, which had to close for a few days, and a lot of people holding money in pesos lost their shirts. Who is to say that this won't happen in Brazil? So once again, not a good option.

So what options does this leave? My new lawyer friend suggested that the best option for me would be to continue to come to Brazil as a tourist. After all, he said, you can stay 180 days a year, rent an apartment in my GF's name, stay there when I come to Brazil, and not have to pay any Brazilian taxes on money I took out of my US bank account at ATMs. He also said that they probably wouldn't check too closely to see that I didn't stay past the 180 days (something I'd rather not risk, actually). All in all not a bad option, although he did say that the taxman would get his due one way or the other, since if I sent my GF money to pay for the apartment during the six months I was out of Brazil, she would have to account for it if it exceeded what she could possibly pay from her job, which it would. And even if I marry my girlfriend in 2006 and obtain permanent resdience, this won't change a lot, because I'm still going to have to pay tax on whatever money I bring into the country.

So now I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do. My GF and I are meeting tonight to discuss options. But I have decided that the least desirable option would be to come to Brazil officially as a retiree, because that way they would be able to tax all of the $2,000 I deposited, whereas if I use one of the other options, I could probably hide a lot of it and they would tax less.

I would like to hear from others who use this website and read this section to let me know what their experience is. Has anyone ever tried to reside in Brazil officially as a retiree? Or come here to retire, in another legal status? And if yes to either of these, what strategies did you use to minimize the taxman's bit. Any help or comments would be appreciated.

Lorenzo

Fartknocker

08-24-04, 23:52

Lorenzo,

Nice post. Good info.

I'd say look into marrying someone other than your girlfriend if you really want a visa right away. A little cash (and I mean a very little cash) should do the trick.

Personally, I don't see the problem with leaving for six months every year. If I were in your shoes, with $300K in income-generating assets plus whatever retirement/social security you have, I would probably set up a second residence in some other South American country, like Argentina. I believe both Brazil and Argentina allow up to 90 days on a tourist visa with zero paperwork. So you could spend 90 days in Rio fucking the socks off your Brazilian girlfriend, and then the next 90 in BA boinking your Argentine girlfriend, and so on and soforth. Personally, I would probably jump back and forth every month or two and never tell my girlfriend(s) when I was going to show up. Brazilian girls cheat. Period. Showing up at irregular intervals will keep her on her best behavior.

If your gf cheats or gets to be a pain in the ass, sell the furniture and hang her with the rent. Set up in the the next city or next country over. You always have that second residence to fall back on. I know this plan isn't to everyone's taste, but that's my way of thinking. Then again, I'm a real sonofabitch when it comes to women. I love to fuck them, but I don't trust them worth a damn.

If you want to work teaching English (or whatever) in either country, just do so unofficially on a cash basis. Both nations have a huge underground economy and one retired American isn't going to show up on anyone's radar screen. If you are bouncing back and forth between Brazil and some other country, your financial transactions are going to be damn hard to trace. When you leave one country, just pre-pay your rent in cash for the next three months.

Don't even think of leaving that much cash with one of your girlfriends, though -- or even letting her know that you have it. Do an internet search for the story about the Swiss retiree who got thrown off his 7th story condo by his girlfriend of 5 years over about $16,000 US. Think your girlfriend would never do such a thing? So did that guy.

Realize that you were taking advice from a lawyer. Lawyers specialize in the right and legal way to do things. In Brazil, hardly anyone does things the right or legal way. You just do what you want to do, and in the unlikely event you get caught, a little grease on the right palm takes care of the problem.

Lorenzo

08-25-04, 00:29

Fartknocker,

Thanks for the response. Great suggestions! I especially like the idea of establishing residence in another South American country and going back and forth between the two girlfriends. Actually, I had a similar idea a while back, but I was thinking of Thailand, the world's other great pussy paradise. I had, or maybe still have, a Thai GF also, but I haven't called her in a while, so maybe she's forgotten me. I think her memory may be refreshed if I mention the green stuff, however. Six months in Thailand, six in Brazil. But you're right, another S. American country would be a little less exhausting.

Actually there is a third great pussy paradise, which is Cuba. Problem is the oppressive government there and the fact that they only allow 60 days maximum stay. Hmmm, let's see...6 months in Brazil, four in Thailand, 2 in Cuba. It would keep me young, all right. But I think your idea is a little saner.

Actually, the only reason I thought of teaching English was to find a legal way to stay in the country. If I don't need this, there's no point in teaching to get paid under the table.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Lorenzo

Fartknocker

08-25-04, 01:23

Lorenzo,

This is actually something I've thought about occasionally. A Rio/BA dual residence would cost you double rent, double utilities, two cars, and about $400 every two months for a round-trip ticket. All of your personal expenses (food, drink, entertainment, etc.) should be the same since there is only one of you. Obviously you are not going to live as well as you would with only one residence, but with US$50K+ per year after taxes, you could still live pretty well.

And there is a lot to be said for having a ready-made backup plan. You never know in life when the caga is going to hit the ventilador.

Personally, I'm a long way from retirement age. In a couple of years, though, I may have an opportunity to work an online job that would pay me about US$30K. A Rio/BA plan would just be too expensive for that income.

I've thought about living in southern Brazil and then just driving down to Uruguay or Argentina every couple of months. Eyeballing the map, Porto Alegre looks to be only about 700-800 driving miles from Buenos Aires (assuming there is some kind of ferry from Uruguay). I would probably take the coastal road down on a weekend and hit the casinos/resorts in Punta del Este, Uruguay -- make it a little weekend getaway.

By driving back and forth, I could lose the second automobile and the big plane ticket back and forth from Rio. Then I'd just be looking at double rent and utilities. Since the south of Brazil is generally cheaper than Rio, it should be possible. Obviously this plan needs a lot of research, but since I'm a few years away from making any move, I haven't really looked into it too much.

Bango Cheito

08-25-04, 03:18

Lorenzo,

You might wanna look into actually buying your crib in Rio. And maybe another crib or two. If you use the money to buy real estate right away it would hold its value way better and also generate other income, as well as cutting your costs. I don't know at all what the tax situation would be on that income, but you could always tell people cash on the barrelhead for rent. Or maybe buy one place in Rio, one in BA. I'm sure other mongers like myself would be GLAD to rent out your shit when you're away in the other place, like Jackson rents his.
:)

Vitor97

08-25-04, 03:44

This seems like more of a dream gentleman. Brazil will soon get played out after you live there for a long time, it is a wonderful place and spending 3 months there at a time is a perfect amount. Then you can head back to the states, for a while and so on. Brazil isnt the only place with beautiful cheap women, amazing beaches, good food, and your dollar goes far. I am an active real estate investor and if you were to purchase an american home and rent it out, or buy an inexpensive condo that was vacant half of the time you would have a nice investment and a place to come home too.

Just my 2 Cents,

J Wadd

08-25-04, 07:26

Fartknocker: There is a ferry from Uruguay to B.A. Cheap and quick.

JW

Rabo Verde

08-25-04, 18:23

Hey you guys should just cut a deal and switch apartments every six months! How long do you have to stay out of Brazil before you get a new entry visa? SO I told my Brazilian Girlfriend to give me a ring, and this is what happened:

Lorenzo

08-26-04, 03:20

Fartknocker,

You have some good ideas, but let me ask you this: I don't know about BA, but why do you need a car in Rio? I've actually looked into this, and I think that having a car in Rio is definitely not worth it. True, you can buy a car for 50-75% of what you would pay in the US, and probably an even lower percentage than what you would pay in Europe, but gas is sky high, about 2.5x US prices, even now. Moreover, Rio drivers drive like maniacs, so an accident sooner or later is inevitable. I'm from LA, which has some pretty crazy drivers, and trust me, Rio drivers make LA drivers look like little old ladies. And I haven't even looked into insurance. On top of which, taxis are cheap, safe, and reliable. The only reason I can see to own a car is to be able to cruise Av. Atlantica for streetwalkers, which is something I could easily forego. So doing without wheels is an easy way to cut back on expenses.

One thing I forgot to mention in my first post of 8-23. My lawyer friend strongly cautioned me against buying a condo or house, saying it was too easy to get scammed if you don't know the system. Forexample, title insurance certificates are often forged, and people have been known to lose their purchase when it is discovered that the place actually belongs to someone else. Moreover, mortgage interest rates are now around 18%, which is even higher than it was in the US in the carter years. So, best to rent. He also advised against shipping any furniture or personal belongings here unless they are something you really need, because the government will impose an import duty, and they are free to decide what your goods are worth, no matter how old. So best to buy everything here.

Chuponalgas: There's no such thing as an "entry visa." There are tourist visas, work visas, and permanent residency visas. If you have a tourist visa, which I imagine the vast majority of users of this website have, there is no restriction on the amount of time that must pass between visits. You could leave one day and return the next. There will be absolutely no problems if you are careful about two things: don't stay longer than 90 days on a single visit without obtaining permission to extend from the Federal Police, and don't stay more than 180 days in any one year. As to the latter, opinion seems to be divided, and I myself couldn't get a straight answer from the Brazilian Consulate in LA, as to whether the 180 day maximum means 180 days in a calendar year, e.g. 2004, or if it means that you can't stay more than 180 days in the year following the date you first enter. Actually, I have heard both, but it's not too hard to assume both are true, just to be on the safe side, and work your days around both assumptions. After all, they're not mutually inconsistent.

I've been here three weeks this time around, and I'm amazed at how cheap Rio is for basics such as lodging and food, at least as compared with a large US or European city. However, I made the mistake of saying this in front of a Brazilian, and it didn't take me long to realize I had been a bit insensitive. Yes, it's cheap to someone with a US income, but it's not cheap to a Brazilian. In fact, they consider it very expensive. The wages in Brazil are appalling. My GF, who is a high school biology teacher, makes R600 a month; that's US$200! She is a former GDP, at which she made a lot of money which she stashed away and invested prudently, but now at 43 she's a little too old for that. But to an old geezer like me, she's almost like jailbait. (Just kidding; I'll fuck an 18 or 20 year old any chance I get. You're never too old for the young stuff.)

If I hear any more useful information along these lines, rest assured I'll post it.

Lorenzo

Bango Cheito

08-26-04, 08:15

My first reply was still sitting in limbo when lorenzo wrote his response.

I agree with lorenzo regarding the car thing. It just isn't necessary, especially if you're near the subway. The zona sul is a bunch of long narrow neighborhoods that are very well serviced by it. Taxis are also good and cheap.

Funny thing though, coming from NYC i was surprised how POLITE and CALM Rio drivers are. Try taking a cab in Bronx or Brooklyn. I was horning and cursing my head off last time I was in LA because they drive SO DAMN SLOWLY. I thought I was gonna need a shave before they made their left turns!@ I'm really curious as to how these three cities would stack up as far as motor vehicle fatalities.

As for the house thing, the title fraud is a big problem. That also happens up here a lot BTW. I certainly wouldn't take out a mortgage at any rate. I actually heard interest rates were more like 25%. Apparently people who actually make any decent money down there just sock it away for years until they can buy it outright. My friend in the Zona Norte bought a 1200 sq ft 2 bthrm 3 bdrm house for R$35k (under USD $12k).

Personally, if I were to live in Rio I would wanna own my own crib. I'd just be very careful about it. I'm in total agreement about not shipping furniture down though. Besides, twice moved= once burnt down!

Cachorro

08-26-04, 16:48

Lorenzo, it seems you have definitely done your homework. I am not sure you have the right information about the investor visa though.

Officially you need a kind of business plan, detailing how many jobs you will create, what the benefits are for Brazil etc. I heard the application takes about 6 months from start to finish.
Details here: http://www.brazil.org.uk/page.php?cid=605

El Aleman

08-26-04, 17:22

Lorenzo:

Maybe what your lawyer friend said about taxation of your retirement money is not the whole story. Look at:

http://www.brasilemb.org/consulado/consular7.shtml

and maybe dig a bit deeper. Things might be not as bad as you thought.

Grenada 79

08-26-04, 20:28

Whats goin' on guys.

Got a couple questions that are probably a bit off topic and at a lower intensity that what is being discussed, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Depending on the outcome of the next few days, it is likely I will be trying to get to Brazil within the next 2, 2.5 weeks. (for up to six weeks, depending on mainly financial issues)

I know nothing yet as I am waiting on some thing before I look into passport, currency exchange, etc.

I probably wont be on more than $1500US budget, including airline tickets, but can possibly get free/discounted tickets, and can make money stretch nicely, and might be able to hook up with some folks I know, and maybe even find a job, under-the-table, short perioid of time.

I'm looking at really any urban area outside of Brasilia and Rio. And also at the possibility of traveling outside of Brazil when/if I arrive.

Any siggestions about places to go, cheep, temporary living, etc. would be great. Thanks,

Grenada

Lorenzo

08-26-04, 21:06

Thanks, gentlemen, for all your feedback; a few comments.

El Aleman: I read the link you provided. This applies to double taxation, which doesn't really apply in my case or to any retiree whose income will be coming largely from Social Security. This is because, in most cases, Social Security is not taxed by the US government, because the income based on which you receive Social Security has already been taxed while you were working. Moreover, to reach the monthly $2000 income, nearly everyone, if not everyone, would have to supplement Soc Sec with money from savings, investments, etc., which has also already been taxed (unless it's coming from a traditional IRA, which would be subject to US taxation, in which case the double taxation would apply). Foreign taxes are always deductible from US taxes, but if you aren't paying any US taxes, then you're shit ouuta luck as far as foreign taxes are concerned. But thanks for the info.

Cachorro: Thanks for the info. I already knew about all the shit you have to fill out, but the lawyer I talked to said that's all to make the bureaucrats look like they're actually doing something useful; in reality, once the money has been deposited in a Brazilian bank they don't care what you do with it. The point is that it has to be spent in Brazil. They won't let you take it out of the country. So don't choose this option unless you really plan to stay in Brazil till the final curtain drops, 'cause you'll never get it back.

Anyway, I've already made my decision: living in Brazil as an expat is just too much of a hassle. After my current 3-month stint here ends, I'm going to go back to South Carolina where I grew up (and property is cheap), buy an investment condo which I'll rent to students from September through May and live in myself June through August. The rest of the year I'll roam the world, which in reality means Brazil, Thailand, and Cuba enjoying the best pussy and food these lands have to offer. I'll do this until I get so old that I'll have to be taken care of by a grumpy Jamaican nurse who'll probably whup me upside the head for drooling oatmeal on my clean gown. But at least I'll be able to do it in my own place.

BTW, another thing potential US retirees should know is that Medicare is not valid outside the US. So if you live anywhere else, you'll have to buy insurance in the country you live in, or just take your chances and pay cash for any medical care you might need--not a good idea for anyone over 60, when who knows what might happen.

Thanks again for the help, guys, and good mongering.

Lorenzo

Ferolga777

08-27-04, 03:56

Lorenzo says

<<<<<I'm going to [...] buy an investment condo which I'll rent to students from September through May and live in myself June through August.>>>>>>

May I ask? Who is going to manage your investment while you are out travelling?

Students are notoriously destructive of other people's property. What steps are you taking to protect this investment? I am truly curious.

Ferolga

Fartknocker

08-27-04, 19:27

vitor97,

i agree that it's nice to come home, but living abroad is not just a dream -- at least not for me. i lived in cabo frio for 4 months last year and wasn't even close to getting tired of it. i just had too many bills to pay in the us, and the money i was making in brazil couldn't cover it. if i'd had the cash flow, i'd still be down there.

i don't know how brazil would ever get "played out" -- its just too big. when i got tired of cabo frio, i just took little trips around rj state. i went over to rio occasionally, and up to novo friburgo and lumiar to do some outdoorsy stuff. i was always going around to the nearer towns like buzios and arrail do cabo. i could imagine how a gringo could get tired of hanging out at help, fucking the copa putas, but get tired of brazil? never.

lorenzo,

i would want a car for the sort of trips i described above. i love taking little trips out to the country. cabs are a bit expensive for long trips, and the busses can be a real pain in the ass. on my trip to friburgo, the godamn bus driver took off and left me and my girl in macae. we had to catch a midnight bus that was deadheading back to the garage.

also, a car is a major status symbol that scores huge points with the non-pro women. status is ridiculously important in brazil. my natural tendency is to say, "fuck this bullshit brazilian status craziness," but i found that its better to use it than to fight it.

as a foreigner and an english speaker, you have an automatic status upgrade. the addition of your own apartment and your own car puts you on a level well above the masses. non-pro girls who would normally not have anything to do with you will be happy to be your girlfriend (or girl-of-the-moment) because your status upgrades her status. she gets to impress all of her friends by telling them about her american boyfriend who has an apartment and a "carrao," who takes her out of town for the weekends, etc.

hell, i "made out" with a girl i met at a bar in cabo frio and three days later it had already made it around the local grapevine. she told everybody about this american she hooked up with, because it gave her status a bump. i swear, its like being a fucking rock star sometimes.

to my way of thinking, a car pays for itself in free pussy.

Lorenzo

08-27-04, 20:35

Ferolga777,

I'll hire a management company to manage it. I've done this before. They will find the tenants, handle the paperwork, collect the rent, all for a fee, usually 5-10% of the rent, depending on the locality. Hopefully I'll never see the tenants. If they cause damage, that's what security deposits are for.

Fartknocker,

I didn't realize you lived in less chaotic areas than Rio, so a car makes more sense. How much do/did you pay for insurance? (I'm assuming you have it.)

Lorenzo

Fartknocker

08-27-04, 22:26

Lorenzo,

I didn't actually own a car down there. I was living with my business partner and he owned wheels that I could use whenever I wanted to. That's why I wound up on a bus to Novo Friburgo instead of driving. (Which by the way, I would never do again. The region is really mountainous and the bus is very sloooow. Drive or don't go)

So anyway I have no idea about insurance.

If I lived in Rio, I would still own a car, even if I didn't use it every day. Being able to grab a girl (or two) and head out to Cabo Frio, or Buzios or Angra for the weekend is just too cool. The non-pro pussy possibilities are endless.

Bango Cheito

08-28-04, 08:11

Lorenzo,

Just to clarify:

If you were to transfter $2k USD into a Brazilian bank account every month would they just gobble the tax out of the money as it came in or would they hit you up for it at some later point like the IRS does here?

Also what if you were self-employed in Brazil, how would they determine 'how much money you're supposed to make'. I remember they tried it on taxi drivers back when i was living in Canada and it didn't work at all.

John

08-28-04, 15:34

For those of us who plan to live in Rio either permanently or semi permanent (meaning 3 to 6 months period), try and get some kind of shots before coming down here if possible. I moved to Rio on June 30, 2004. The first week I was pretty ok but after the first week I started to get high fever and cold continuously. I spent almost US$250 on my first trip to the doctor. I was put on drips and had to stay in a clinic for almost one full day, that is I was in the clinic from 9:00 am to 5:00 pm.

Since then I found out another clinic in Copacabana which is a little less expensive on Rua Hilario de Gouveia, 49 - Tel: 2548-3479. The doctors here charge R$ 55 per visit and they are pretty good. The clinic has several doctors specializing in several different fields. Although, the receptionist don't speak English but all the doctors here speak mild to good English in Rio.

I know this report has nothing to do with mongering but people do get sick while travelling. After the experience I had here in Rio with my health, I would have appreciated a report about where to go for a good doctor.

Uninfun

08-28-04, 16:13

I have an alternative suggestion.

I'm not real keen on counting on the necessity of having to grease palms, when there is a legal way of doing things. Here's what I suggest.

Go with the six months on and off in Brazil for the time being. Set up an apartment in the US, or reside with a family member while you can.

In a few years when eligible, marry your brazilian girlfriend in the US. Get her to sign a prenup in the us (at least a month before the marriage), and keep the 300k in assets in your own name (better that she doesn't even know the bank) in the US. Thereafter apply for the permanent visa. As a trade off, she can get the us green card.

The prenup should protect your assets, because you can always file divorce in the US thereafter if she goes psycho.

Cash Works

08-30-04, 12:51

Lorenzo,

You may want to check and see if there is some sort of "personal presence" tax exemption in Brasil. It sounds like you are planning on spending about half the year outside of Brasil anyway & this 6 months may qualify you for tax exempt status there. To get this type of tax exemption in the US, the period of time you have to stay out of the USA is 330 days, the UK it's something like 180 days.

The reason I mention this is that I have friends (American, British and a few other nationalities), who I have lost track of over the years, that were living in Brasil for years, but only spending 4-6 months per year there due to work in other countries. Most of these guys had permanent Brasillian visas (married or divorced with kids and most of them owned property there as well) and I'm sure I would have heard something if they were paying 30% tax. After all, they were living there not only for the pussy, but for the tax benefits of not living in their home country.

CW

Lorenzo

08-30-04, 18:18

Bango Cheito,

Sorry, but I really didn't go into the details of how they collect the tax. I suppose I could easily find out, but my educated guess--and it's still only a guess--is that they have a system similar to the US if your income is other than from wages. In other words, file a periodic tax return--in the US it's quarterly--and pay what you owe for that period, then make up for the differences one way or the other when you file your annual return. I do know that Brazilians, or those owing Brazilian income tax, file an annual tax return, just as we do in the US. I'll try to find out more about this.

As for determining "how much you're supposed to make," I imagine that is a well kept secret, both in Brazil and the US, and probably everywhere else. After all, the IRS and its equivalents everywhere in the world aren't going to tell you how they figure those things out, just so you can figure a way around them. I do know that this is how the IRS caught many a tax evader, including some very famous ones like Al Capone. It's also how the CIA figured out that the spy Aldrich Ames must have had an extra source of income, which they correctly assumed came from espionage; i.e., he couldn't possibly have afforded his house, car, etc. on his CIA salary, and he had no other reported source of income. Ames is now serving life without parole, so this method does work.

Uninfun,

Thanks for your suggestions. I probably will do something very close to what you suggested. I would never put money in a Brazilian bank, beyond what is needed to meet expenses. And rather than have it in one US institution I have it spread around in diversified investments. I have made my Brazilain GF the beneficiary of all my accounts in case I croak--something she doesn't know but my executor does--and it will remain this way as long as she remains faithful, continues to provide excellent sexual services, and looks the other way when I cheat. If old Lorenzo does kick the bucket prematurely, you mongers will have to do your homework to find this newly rich (by Brazilian standards) brasileira who thinks gringos make better lovers than brasileiros (at least that's what she tells me). Sorry, you won't find any hints here.

Lorenzo

Bango Cheito

08-30-04, 21:12

Well here in the US I'm self employed and I don't do the quarterly thing at all. I just take whatever's left over after my business expenses and sock it somewhere they cant' touch it i.e. put it into my home or make an extra mortgage payment, IRA, etc. I haven't paid a dime in taxes since I bought property.

I'd imagine you could also work under the table in Brazil, probably a lot easier than in the US. Here people want your SS# if they owe you $20!

Fartknocker

08-31-04, 02:34

Nobody in Brazil with money pays the taxes they are supposed to be paying. NOBODY!

Brazilians are the undisputed law-making and law-breaking champions of the world. The Brazilian governments at all levels crank out laws and regulations as fast as they can, but even before the next silly bit of regulation leaves the politician's desk, some enterprising Brasileiro has come up with a bit of "jeitinho" to get around it.

I am a co-owner of a small business in Brazil, and I can tell you that we break virtually every tax and labor law there is on a daily basis. We just pay an accountant to fill out all the right forms and send in just enough money to keep the government off of our asses. The vast majority of small busineses in Brazil do the same (or worse).

Working off the books is not only do-able, it is much more common than working within the bounds of the law. The Brazilian people's willingness to dodge taxes every way they can (legal and ilegal) is the reason why the government is so hot on any tax that can not be avoided. Property and automobile taxes are their favorites, but some of the new taxes, like the "temporary" financial services tax, are the up-and-coming moneymakes. Any tax that involves voluntary compliance is doomed in Brazil.

So don't worry much about income taxes. I guarantee that no matter what your situation, there is a way around paying the tax.

Zidaho

08-31-04, 04:04

Hummmm. Damn I love tax work. Minimize damage maximise healing. Change with an objective, makes the world go a round, one way or the other.

Z

Cachorro

08-31-04, 08:47

John, thanks for the tip on the doctor's clinic. I'll make a mental note of it. Experience has taught me it's not so simple to find a competent doctor in Brazil.

Bango Cheito

09-01-04, 06:21

Fartknocker,

How bad are property taxes in Brasil anyway? I know here in the NYC area they are very low within the city but some suburbs are totally insane. Is there anywhere one would want to avoid owning property because of absurd tax rates?

Member #1461

09-01-04, 12:27

Hi everyone.

I am considering moving to brazil for 2-3 years.

I am 33, I've visited Brazil 3 times in the past on short holidays and I speak pretty reasonable portugueze (my grandmother was from brazil and I learned it from her).

I was able in the last 10 years to save about 100k American $, and its in a bank making me a steady monthly interest of about 350 $. in todays exchange rate value thats 1000 Rais more or less.

I am wondering, if I want to live somewhere in one of the state capitals of brazil (other then rio and SP which do not really interest me ATM), can I manage to live comfortably on that much ? By comfort I mean a nice 1-2 bedroom apartment in a white collar or higher end blue collar neighbourhood (Lets say about higher middle class neigbourhood), eat at home but go out and eat at a nice restaurants with a girlfriend about 2-3 evenings a week and maybe party a bit on the weekends (club, disco nothing too expensive). Nothing too fancy just basic comfort.

Is that doable on 1000 Rais in one of the capitals ?

I am also wondering which state capital is the SAFEST on a long term stay, if I live in a higher middle class environment and dont live in a risky manner where am I less likely to be robed or assulted.

One final Question on a different subject. I have 2 citizenships and 2 passports, from 2 different countries, will I be able to juggle my stay in Brazil by alternating my entrances between them ? I mean like entering on January with passport #1 and leaving at the end of June (after the 3 months + 3 more moths extention) and Re-entering from a different border point 3-4 days later at the start of July with passport #2 and staying 6 months until December. and then doing it all over again.

Anyone ever done that ? anyone know if its doable ?

Sorry for so many questions, this is my first post here, and any info you can help with is greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone,

Paul

Cash Works

09-01-04, 14:49

Gentlemen,

Rule of thumb on finding a competent doctor in a foreign country:

Call your consulate. Explain that you are in need of a doctor and they should be able to hook you up with a referral or at least give you the name of an "approved" hospital/doctor.

CW

CBGBConnisur

09-02-04, 14:29

Anyone who puts money in a Brazilian financial institution is 1)A fucking Idiot 2) Smoking crack.

Kent747

09-05-04, 06:45

HotTraveler

09-05-04, 16:55

Hello Member 1461!

I'm a spanish citizen and I also am considering to move to Brazil. I love this country. I was 3 times and visited Rio, Sao Paulo and Salvador.

About the theme of to put money in a bank, I believe is a good
option, because you can to receive a high rate of interest.

For example, in Spain I only can to get 0.54 % at month, but in Brazil is possible to get 1´2 % at month.

If you want to have in contact with me and to change ideas,
informations, etc, write me to my e-mail:

[Email Address deleted by Admin]

See you soon.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending removal of email addresses in the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system to exchange this information. Thanks!

Fartknocker

09-05-04, 22:26

Bang Cheito,

Property taxes vary enormously by location. The politicians know they can't tax the poor since they don't have anything. "Rich" areas, like Guaruja south of SP, have very high property taxes.

Of course all the asshole novo riche Paulistanos buy the$3 million condo in Guaruja ANYWAY because they just HAVE to impress all of their rich friends. (If you haven't figured it out, showing off is the national sport of Brazil. Futbol is a distant second)

Member #1461

Sure, you can live on $R 1000/month in an interior city, but just because you can DO it doesn't mean it is to be DONE. With that kind of cash you will live only a little better than most Brazilians -- which is to say like a pauper.

Look at this monthly budget:

R$ 300 a very small one bedroom apartment
R$ 200 food if you cook all your meals at home
R$ 200 1 night out per week with a girlfriend
R$ 100 utilities if you have a phone and an air conditioner
R$ 70 bus fare
R$ 130 leftover for everything else

= R$1000 per month

Notice what you don't have. NO car, NO health insurance, NO regular trips back home, NO hookers, NO new furniture or electronics, NO weekend getaways. Also notice you are only getting 1 night a week out with a girlfriend. (Personally, I find a restaurant date for two, with drinks, at a decent place runs around $R50.) If you do this, at least pick a city with a beach, because free entertainment is about all you are going to afford.

My personal advice is to wait a bit. Work another 7-10 years, and put together a much larger stack. I would shoot for at LEAST R$3000 per month, which at your current measly rate of return will require a stack of US$300K.

Alternatively, you could try to increase your rate of return on what you have. One good moneymaker is rental property. With your $100K and a solid credit rating you can probably buy $500K worth of rental units. If the units rent for 1.5% of value, you are looking at $7,500 per month. After paying the mortgage, bills and the rental management company, you should easily have US$2000 per month of free cash flow. That is more than enough to live decently in Brazil. If you take this route you could actually be living in Brazil in 2-3 years. However, this is a MUCH riskier route and you definitely more exposed to potential setbacks that would require a prompt return to the US and regular employment.

A hybrid approach would probably be better. Start investing a portion of your stack in rentals, but also invest in other assets. Keep working and saving for at least 5 years. With good investing you could have a pretty well-diversified portfolio that yields the US$1000/month you need to have a halfway decent life.

Rio Nut

09-06-04, 00:55

Fartknocker,

Let me ask you one thing.

Say one is a gringo. He is fit. He is roughly 36 years old. He speaks good Portuguese. He is "wealthy" for Brazilian standards.

(I am not describing myself. I was asked by my co-worker)

Do you think someone like this could date stunning 18-22 year old non-pros on a whim in Brazil?

I had a hard time answering this because it seemed to depend so much on the region. In the Nordeste, this went without saying. The women start dating very early there and do not generally have hang-ups about age (of course, the patricinhas do, but they are in a different world anyhow).

On the other hand, in the South like Porto Alegre, I met women who really did not seem to care that much about someone being gringo. Yes, there are golddiggers. But being a well-off gringo did not seem to yield easy pussy.

What are your thoughts?

I think this is relevant because let's face it, when I was living in Brazil, *****s got very old very fast. There is a certain sense of satisfaction in "hunting" women the old fashioned way, as long as they don't put up too much resistence.

And I think every man on here would agree. If they can get model-quality women who are non-***** sexually servicing them, they would usually opt for the non-*****s vs the *****s.

Lorenzo

09-06-04, 01:32

Member #1461,

Please tell me what bank you have your money in that pays $350 a month interest on a $100,000 deposit, and I'll close my Vanguard money market account and move my money to your bank! That's 4.2% annually, which is far more than any money market fund or bank CD is paying--and I've done a web search to find the best rate. The best I was able to find for a 6-month or 1-year CD was slightly over 2%. Are you sure you aren't exaggerating a little?

Lorenzo

Fartknocker

09-06-04, 03:15

Lorenzo,

I don't know that Member #1461 ever said he was invested short term. The other day when I dropped by my credit union I saw that they had a 60 month Jumbo yielding 4.18% If you have $100K and are willing to bet long-term you can get those kind of rates.

Personally I think CD's are a coward's way of investing, and shouldn't even be considered by anyone under 65. Then again I'm currently losing my ass on a business in Brazil, so I guess I'm at the other end of the risk spectrum.

Fartknocker

09-06-04, 03:55

Rio Nut,

Ok, this is third time I've started to answer this, but fucking Frances keeps knocking out the godamn power. I am so tired of this hurricane bullshit . . .

Anyway, I happend to know "a guy" who is very similar to your friend. He is in his mid-30's. He works out, but can never seem to get all the flab off ('cause he likes to eat too much), so he is usually carrying around an extra 30 lbs. Other than that he's a decent looking guy, but no fitness model. He's reasonably charming and quite intelligent, but is far from being a Don Juan. He speaks his limited Portuguese confidently, if barbarically.

This "guy" went down and lived in Cabo Frio, Brazil for four months last year. I know all this is true, because I'm pretty close to this guy. In fact I shave him every morning.

Yep. He's me.

I scored my first non-pro after two weeks. Silvia was a 32 year old single mom. She had a nice body, but not the prettiest face. However, she was so sweet and fun that I spent more time with her than any other, and still write her email regularly. He greatest redeeming value is that she is completely in love with ME. (crazy chick)

My second regular girl, Cynthia, was a petite 20 year old brunette. She was a European/Indian mix with cute "pixie" kind of face and figure. She also had this sexy way about her that just drove me nuts. I dated her regularly for about two months before my lack of wheels caught up with me. She dumped me for a guy with a motorcycle.

Then there was Vanessa, an 18 year old single mom. The girl actually got married when she was 12 (no shit) and was recently divorced. She had a cute face and nice little body, except for the inevitable stretch marks from her two kids. She was one of my steady girls for the last two and half months.

I slept with three others infrequently. Ana was a 26 year old brunette with a big ass, but a beautiful face. Renata was a cute 20 year old college student with a thing for backdoor sex. Then there was Amanda, a 21 year old hardbody visiting from Sao Paulo.

There were other girls I could have scored with, but frankly I just didn't bother as long as I had a couple of regulars on the line.

None of these girls were "stunning" or "model quality," but all of them were better looking than the girls I normally date back in the US. The great thing about them was that they were REAL. There was no bullshit, no pretense, no lies. The ugliest puta I've slept with in Brazil was better looking than the best of them, but I wouldn't trade one night I spent with any of my "real" girls.

So maybe the answer to your question is "yes" and "no." Could your buddy sleep with all the "stunning, model quality" girls he wants to? Probably not. However, he should have absolutely no problem scoring with as many above-average cuties as he can manage to get it up for. So I guess it depends on what he's looking for -- having fun, or racking up trophies. If he wants trophies, he should just pay for it. If he wants to have some great sex, he should get on a plane to Brazil.