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Hi Folks,
You remember "BELGUEL" who was posting these amazing pixs last year.
I just returned from Agadir. I was told a Belgian is in prison. But its not him.
It was in the local news, the whole town is speaking about pixs taken by foreign Sex Tourists, and time is over taking pixs from naive girls.
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This is the information from an newspaper in Morocco, translated by a www.systranet.com from French to English, quite funny language:
Three girls have been just condemned to sorrows going three months to two years of prison by the court of first authority of Agadir. Their crime: catch of photographs in a state of nudity, in pornographic positions. More than one ten of other girls are required for the same reasons. According to declarations' of the defendants, the photographs which had circulated on Internet for more than three months, were taken at the time of very private evenings whose director is a Belgian of the name of ******. Truth or false name? Nobody knows it. The police force was focused in its investigation into heroins of the photographs and the place of the orgies. The raid was started grace, paradoxically, with a complaint deposited by one of the condemned girls. According to its declarations with the police force, it discovered its photographs by viewing CD bought in a public trade. Outraged by its own images, it carried felt sorry for to stop the sales of the other copies of CD. Business to be followed.
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But anyhow, I had some great time in Agadir again and I will post some pix soon.
john
Attention all.
The following article appeared today on the Alalam (daily Moroccan newapaper in Arabic). I translated the article herebelow.
Please all (JohnAuro included), keep a low profile nowadays, and do not post any photos. Islamic fundamentalism is gaing territory and it is the only reasons influencing this kind of attitude by the police/society.
Keep safe
T.
Alalam new paper www.alalam.ma (23/05/2005)
"Quote:
Headline: New developments regarding the pornograpic CD's issue .
The case regarding the pornographic CD’s discovered recently at Agadir is continuously developing.
The police is still searching for all those who are implicated in the case. The police recently arrested some people involved in the matter, and the district attorney accused them of encouraging the sexual tourism, pornography, and producing pornographic material, causing huge disrespect to society and tradition.
People involved in the matter are: (list of abbreviated initials of some girls & birth dates) all arrested + ( 2 abbreviated initials of 2 gentlemen –owners of a CD and cassette shop) free on caution.
One of the arrested girls informed the police about a rented apartment situated in the Alhadary district, where all the photo sessions and filming have taken place. In the meantime she also denounced (an abbreviated man’s initials) who sold CD’s that show her naked &/or having sex with. She denied that she knew anything about the shooting/filming. After some intense interrogations, she finally confessed that she had a relationship with a Belgian gentleman (abbreviated initials) who deceived her by telling her he was a journalist. The police found out later that he used o do the same with many girls promising them that he will marry them, and asking them to shoot some photos while having sexual intercourses with them. All the events happened at a rented apartment for the daily price of 300 DH + 50 DH for the concierge to close an eye.
Later another girl was warned by one of her friends that a porno movie with her being the subject is on sale all over town, in addition to some porno and naked photos of her on the internet. She went to denounce the event to the police, who after interrogating her confessed that she had a relationship with a Belgian gentleman (same one above), where she started chatting with him via internet in 2001, and when he came to Agadir the same year he promised to marry her in the future, and he asked her to shoot some photos of her to keep his company while he is away to avoid missing her so much, and afterwards around end 2002 she had no sign of him.
Another girl who confessed that she had sexual relationship with lots of tourists, mentioned the same Belgian gentleman, and she remembered that once he photographed her having sex with another girl friend of hers.
All the material, related matters, police reports and the arrested people’s confessions are in the magistrate’s posses who ordered severe control on the city’s apartment rental business, and to search for more people implicated in the matter.
Uquote".
==============================================
Attention all.
The following article appeared today on the Alalam (daily Moroccan newapaper in Arabic). I translated the article herebelow.
Please all (JohnAuro included), keep a low profile nowadays, and do not post any photos. Islamic fundamentalism is gaing territory and it is the only reasons influencing this kind of attitude by the police/society.
Keep safe
T.
Heh heh... you obviously didnt go far back enough in this forum to know who they may be talking about.
A gentelman from Belgium was a frequent poster here in the Moroccan section (about a year or more back) and was posting pics of his conquests in Agadir. There was a big debate here about whether he should show the girls faces or not (which he was showing in the pics). Finally Jackson wised up and said their eyes should be masked. A few weeks later, the Belgian wrote that he was busted by the Agadir police for possessing nude photos of the girls. Ever since, we never heard from him again.
Hmmm, I wonder how "recent" this article is and which Belgian fellow that may be.
Heh heh... you obviously didnt go far back enough in this forum to know who they may be talking about.
A gentelman from Belgium was a frequent poster here in the Moroccan section (about a year or more back) and was posting pics of his conquests in Agadir. There was a big debate here about whether he should show the girls faces or not (which he was showing in the pics). Finally Jackson wised up and said their eyes should be masked. A few weeks later, the Belgian wrote that he was busted by the Agadir police for possessing nude photos of the girls. Ever since, we never heard from him again.
Hmmm, I wonder how "recent" this article is and which Belgian fellow that may be.Hi JP2U,
This article is more than obvious recent. I've heard about the story from moroccans that just returned from Agadir. The guy they caught now is definitly not our friend belguel. If your looking for him, check Cameroon and the Dom Rep. with his reports after getting banned from morocco. T_Bozen is right to inform everybody not to take pictures there. By the way, even arabic members ( qmusic ) wrote about problems being caught by the police with pictures showing naked women on your mobile phone or digicam.
Nez99naz
Hi JP2U,
This article is more than obvious recent. I've heard about the story from moroccans that just returned from Agadir. The guy they caught now is definitly not our friend belguel. If your looking for him, check Cameroon and the Dom Rep. with his reports after getting banned from morocco. T_Bozen is right to inform everybody not to take pictures there. By the way, even arabic members ( qmusic ) wrote about problems being caught by the police with pictures showing naked women on your mobile phone or digicam.
Nez99naz
Thanks for the info Nez. I didnt want to mention belguels name in case it was him. It was quite a coincidence the article mentioned a Belgian fellow and Agadir (belguels place), so I thought it was him and the article was dated or something.
I was among those who suggested to belguel to mask the girls eyes in the pics here, but many had argued in favor of not doing so. I think one of the girls was detained by the cops and belguel was busted. But he seems to have gotten off lightly as he posted afterwards recalling his experiences.
Good to know he's alright somewhere else in Cameroon or wherever.
Hi folks,
T Bozen,
I'm sorry, but I don't have the same opinion as you.
In Morocco, European and American tourism is very important for Morrocan economy, and the touristic policy is to take care of tourists for their security. It's hard to believe it, but a tourist is more important than a Moroccan.
So, nobody would harass a tourist for mongering, but anyone has to know that respect in this country is important: Behave correctly with chicks when you are outside, and never enjoy doing porno or illegal activities.
But you may go out with a chick (restaurant, disco) as you want and pay her to spend the night with you without any problem. Morocco is very liberal and lotta western people live their like this.
Have fun
Tik
greeting everyone.
i received the following news report by email. it has been translated form the original french version.
====================================================
investigate. scandal porn agadir. the net tightens
philippe servaty, to the local ones in the evening. since that the matter has burst, the newspaper took its distances with his former journalist (dr)
the belgian pornographe to causes of which 12 moroccan women are in prison is at two fingers to fall. philippe servaty, the suspet n°1, was heard by the brussels police. an indictment should follow.
this is done, the belgian police at last heard philippe servaty, former journalist to the newspaper evenings. that itself past wednesday in the local ones of the judicial police of brussels. a verbal process was established and, the moment these lines are written, belgian justice had to decide of the after to give to this first contact with servaty. two possibilities offer themselves to belgian authorities: to open a judicial inquiry on the interested (the eventuality more probable), or entrust the file to an examining magistrate. in any case, belgian justice, as we confirm it this source that follows by very near the matter to brussels, "has access to sufficiently facts being able to constitute an offence to the law (publication of photos leaving to suppose that certain girls would be minors)". this track all the more serious one since it officially is established than the one of the twelve victims of the tourist, today in prison, is a minor of 17 years. without forgetting that certain postures adopted by the victims of the pornographe can have a religious meaning, this that the would drop under the blow of the belgian law. in fact, and as the signal strong judiciously our colleagues in the evening, "so certain photos effectively had to present elements relating to l! to muslim religion, pursuits could be engaged"…
philippe servaty, on which weigh henceforth all the presumptions, does not speak anymore, even to its near ones. "since that it was invited to resign, confides the one of its former colleagues, it relates back to us the communiqué that it had made public (editor's note: in this document, servaty, all while remaining evasive on the bottom of the matter, says itself ready to defend his private life and his dignity) and to his lawyer". anything else to signal, if this is not the fear and anguish (" i fear for my life", confided recently servaty to telquel, by telephones) that begin embracing the interested since that twelve of its feminine partners were stopped and condemned to penalties going until a year of prison, by the court of first agadir instance. on the forum pornographique where it so had shined, throughout the first part of the year of 2004, through tens of photos pornographiques taken to agadir, "belguel", that corresponds according to all evidence to philippe servaty, equally disappeared from the circulation. his last apparition in the site dates back to june 20 2004. it there invited the moderating one forum to withdraw the photos of the young gadiries, and related also how it had done himself to shout at by the agadir police little beforehand. extracts: "i ask you (editor's note: belguel addresses to itself the moderating one site) to withdraw all the pictures that i broadcasted on the site. i was stopped, last week, by the moroccan police, probably on the indications of the an of my girlfriends. they know all at present. they were said me that i risked getting five years of prison, according to the moroccan law. the policemen were particularly nervous because of the photos of veiled women and picture of the morocco as destination of sexual tourism. i had to cross certain red lines. my stay to the police station lasted 18 hours, they relaxed me because i am (…), that morocco has good relations with (…) and that i am known in (…). the moroccan police wanted to avoid the scandal. she did not wonder me to withdraw the photos, but she could stop those that would be attempted to follow my track. i am afraid for those that would not be as lucky as me. i always receive malls of persons that desire to remake my experience. i realize that all that becomes dangerous. withdraw my photos and the one taken by the others, done we this favor. that also could protect the girls on the photos. the police confirep001ed my portable telephone, the numbers of the girls are in the catalog. these girls can be in danger, this are not prostitutes (mostly). i hope that this is not too late for them…".
the last mall of belguel provoked a debate within the community of the pornographes. certain some protested the authenticity, deducing that the text did not resemble the profile of belguel, previously insensitive to the warn members that invited it to mask the eyes, and the identities, of its feminine preys. the sending nevertheless was validated and certified authentic by the administrator of the forum. belguel he been stopped, between may and june 2004, by the moroccan police? this is him that the says. where he has stopped and how? a sure source to the agadir police headquarters adamantly denies information: "we, one does not know belguel. with regards to philippe servaty, this individual was not stopped by the judicial police of the city, we pointed his identity on our centralized computers, it has not any compartment at our place". even his of bell to the agadir floor: "there was not any complaint, no pursuit, no judicial file concerning the person known as philippe servaty". to folds back, a near source of the ministry of justice confirmed us the same information. nevertheless, the one of the victims of servaty (and that keeps today again its personal coordinated ones in his diary), today in prison, asserts, in the one of its manuscripts, that "servaty was stopped in 2004 by the moroccan police"…
the same uncertainties surround the goes out that awaits the former journalist in the evening, to the morocco as in belgium. the official moroccans, to agadir but also to folds back, we replied to the unison: "if servaty puts back the feet to morocco, one will proceed immediately to his arrest, his signalement already is communicated to the police of the borders". the even official one nevertheless refused to confirm the existence of a research opinion. this that is sure, at least, this is that an instruction (oral) has given well being. what it already was stopped in 2004, or not, philippe servaty is not anymore an unknown one for moroccan authorities, that have access to all the pieces of information to his subject. "one knows that it is in belgium, one knows his pedigree and practically all of him…". for the moment, to agadir, the floor and the police seem to play at hides hides, sending back itself constantly the bullet, doubtless while awaiting flap instructions. "this is the minister of justice, in coordination with the director of the dgsn, that truly have the strength to activate an official procedure against servaty", admits this agadir magistrate. it exists a second possibility, more random: the one of a complaint deposited by the victims of the tourist. but it would be necessary, as we explained it this very near source of the file, that the complaint directly is addressed to a moroccan examining magistrate, that this one judges it recevable and asks to hear servaty in the framework of a commission rogatoire. the procedure is slow, she engages a perfect coordination between judicial authorities moroccans and belgian, as well as their respective diplomatic representations. a victim has just crossed the step while depositing, thursday, a complaint against philippe servaty for "swindle and broadcasting of pictures pornographiques". a second victim keep in step for him at the start of the week...
faouzia bensalem and claude demelenne
belgium. indignation and action
for the first time, political persons in charge and actors of the belgian civil corporation react to this matter. indignant. the minister of the equality of luck adopts a definite position.
if to morocco, no defense organization of the human rights did not again mobilize himself for the imprisoned women after the agadir scandal, in belgium one not a lot more is advanced. the press covered the event with a certain discretion (to read below). in this context, it is not at all astonishing one that the defense organizations of the human rights and woman not some be that to the stadium of the taken one of conscience. but already, the reactions are indignant. lawful counselors to the league of the human rights, manual lambert exclaims itself: "if the facts that are accused this journalist are proved, it is scandaleux that it is not worried while its victims are in prison by his fault. as one of the girls is 17 years old, the law on the protection of the minors can be invoked. from that time, the inaction of the belgian state would be unacceptable". most of the women that fell in the trap of the "hunter" belgian are major. the tourist not does it risk therefore to reply in front of belgian justice of the acts concerning the major women? "if one of the women carries complaint in belgium against this journalist, estimates manual lambert, on the basis of the non-respect of private life and right to the picture, the belgian court would be competent".
christian dupont, belgian minister of the social integration and equality of luck, corroborate. "the facts retrieved in the item of telquel are unacceptable, does it comment on. this behavior type, if it proves itself that it well did it a belgian, likely east to be followed by the justice of our country. in the belgian one, there exist law the disposals that allow following whoever hires, induces, exploits a person regarding prostitution, even with his consent, and not only in belgium". christian dupont heavily is involved itself. "in this matter, if the facts are proved, they are liable to be followed, and they will have to be it. besides, in the domain of sexual tourism, we started countries of sensibilisation of the internet suppliers and trip agencies. these countries will have to be stressed".
besides this explicit official engagement, the actors of the civil corporation are indignant. for the director of the federal institute for the equality of the women and men, easter vielle, that shows to which not at all "it is easy to exploit the human misery, in the reports north south, and again easier when this is a man of the north that addresses to itself women of the south, with all the promises than it can do for them. these women had a sexual relation of their own free will with someone that fooled them while broadcasting proofs of this sexual relation, itself unworthy she. it abused their confidence and this not at all is normal that they meet again in prison!".
president of the association "citizens, citizens of here and besides", souad ben abdelkader equally "outraged by these arrests while the manipulative one always runs". but beyond the attitude of the fooled women, the associative actors and belgian political put themselves serious questions on the attitude of the state and moroccan corporations. they know pertinemment that to morocco, sexual tourism does not date any yesterday. "it does not be necessary to veil itself the face, irritates itself souad, morocco does not do nothing to protect its children of perverse comings of the four corners of the planet. and authorities close the eyes".
the socialist delegated fatiha saïdi worries, as for her, of the goes out of the women usually. "i fear this matter to be instrumentalisée by the reactionary ones. and that the women usually some be the principal victims. this matter falls one cannot anymore poorly, some times after the moudawana, reforms that allowed some advances, still too shy, improving the goes out of the women in the moroccan corporation. i fear certain men to say: ‘the moroccan women are not again ready for liberty. see this that they some do: they accept putting to bed with does not import that! '".
the priority of another representative, rachid madrane, this also went out of it the women that, in this matter, were stopped and condemned to heavy penalties. "that has a thought for these women? how will they be able to reintegrate their families? the fact that one throws women in prison because of photos, this is not normal. it is times to dare to put a look criticizes on certain laws demote".
"i am very worried, concludes fatiha saïdi. the moroccan women imprisoned in the framework of this matter must be supported. feminist associations and collective of women, in belgium, are reflecting to this subject. let us take initiatives. of grace, let not us leave to fall these women!". isabelle during, a leader of the belgian greens, dividing the same feeling, launches a call: "it is times that the women, at our place, itself remobilisent. the latter times, i find rather tired feminism. it has himself remobiliser notably in favor of these women of the poor countries that are the target of sexual tourism. this business sordide becomes very preoccupying. it is the one of the faces of the domination report north south. the issue, this is also the emancipation of the women in the countries of the south. do we mobilize in their favor". the tone is given. the action will she follow?
© the newspaper on tuesday, belgian in a hurry brussels. the scandal arrives
the newspaper evenings chose, very quickly, to take its distances with philippe servaty. june 9, be some days to pains after to have invited the journalist to resign, evenings published an item where the essential one is announced as early as the title: "an in the evening suspected journalist: the targets of a sexual tourists put in prison". the text, that resumes the news published by telquel, reveals, in addition, that "moroccan expatriates promise, on certain forums of the internet, to wash in the blood the insult done to their religion and to the moroccan woman". it goes back over the case of the minor of 17 years, that could be worth pursuits (for pédophilie) to servaty in belgium. the newspaper adds: "belgian justice could follow the presumed author of the facts, if it there has complaint, boss of attained to the mœurs to a determined moment (…) the young moroccan women, of which the photos were broadcasted without their agreement could equally file an action for attained to them right to the picture". three days after the publication of the item, the newspaper, doubtless concerned to preserve his picture, broadcasted a communiqué where it considers himself as "indirect therefore intolerable victim". "the last elements of this file make public did nothing but to increase the écoeurement", concludes notably the text. two days later, the weekly one the newspaper on tuesday consecrates his cover file to the same subject, while entitling: "sexual tourism: a belgian journalist sends 12 women in prison (70 other threatened women)". the same day, a belgian television, rtl tv, broadcast a report on the agadir scandal, in his principal flash of information while declining the identity of philippe servaty as suspicious number one, a broadcasting that was followed by hundreds of blows of indignation sons emanating so belgian viewers that moroccans. the last hour, the free belgium, as well as various titles of the flemish press are themselves ég alement seized of the matter.
k.b
chadwane bensalmia, special sent
agadir. justice and injustices
(dr)
victims or guilty? beyond the sentence of the court, the charged in the scandal pornographique agadir everyday are condemned by the near ones, the neighbors, the friends and the passes in the street.
hay al amal, to some 8 kilometers of agadir. the neighborhood breathes the misery. to the ground floor of one of the multiples buildings to the anarchic architecture, behind a big door in green iron, the parents of samira, the youngest one of the victims of the scandal pornographique, jump to every blow to the door. distrusting, they dare to pains to open. the look extinguishes and the resigned expression, the father cries the goes out of his girl in a succession of fatalistic explanations. "person cannot nothing for us. one there cannot nothing. this is the destiny, the mektoub". his small samira, 17 years, already accumulated more dramas in his life than his mother quinquagénaire. married to 13 years against his will and the one of its parents, to an imbalance, she the héroïne of a history sprinkled superstitions, of run away unexplained and of bad sorts. behind the bars of his geôle to inezgane, and to every visit of his family, she reiterates the same complainte, indefinitely, désespérément "i am afraid. the women fight to blows of bottles broken. i am afraid of to approach them. they have the scarred faces of scars". she collapses in tears "i want go out of here". his mother, mortified by the powerlessness, does not find nothing to reply: "this is my granddaughter. this is a child. it was again a child when she knew this patient. i do not know why she did that". holding in its arms his small niece, she squeezes it strong and leaves to escape a despair cry: "i do not dare anymore go out. in the neighborhood, i am the discussion subject of all. i know it, i see it in every look". the leaned head forward, she dives next in the silence, about ten minutes, before to question itself "why it do they keep in this prison? this is a minor. she is all small one, all frêle. what can one do?". deposit a complaint against philippe servaty for minor misappropriation. the parents having no lawful knowledge, and in the absence of an assistance of the civil corporation, there again never had not thought. henceforth, they know it. on time where we put under in a hurry, they prepare themselves to file a complaint. "and the other girls?", ask the mother. they have each his history that was drowned under the generic and often unfair title of prostitution. they all lost, until their families, for certain of them. majdouline was exile by its six brothers. five of them folded luggage and left the house to the day following his arrest. the alone to have remained at the house does not address anymore the word to the parents or to the on. besides, confide his on wafaa "one did not relate the truth to our father. one said for him that it was photos mountings. it is 70 years old and it is sick. it some would die". wafaa, in true on courage, decided to challenge the world for his younger daughter: "i know my on, i see it grown, i believe all that she is said me. i will defend it always. and if my brothers drop it, so worse for them". to the arrest of majdouline, and during a month, wafâa did not dare to go to his work. "i heard the people to whisper on my passage. i heard them to laugh. today again, i avoid going to the hammam, or to the market. the people have no compassion". wafâa nevertheless resumed the work since some days. this is his superviseur that some convinced it. "i have for him a lot.
this is thanks to him, to his support, that i hold standing. him also knew majdouline since one worked together". and the mother to follow "the people condemned it well before justice. they condemned me me also. what do they want? what i drop my girl? what i send it to the street for that she prostitutes herself for true one? this is that a family? i like my girl. i will support it always".
in an of its letters, majdouline relates a last time his drama. she there evokes a certain helena, unknown to the battalion even there. " (…) i knew philippe and helena through the net one. one wrote oneself for 3 months. they had been said me that they were married (…) i remember that helena served me a juice of orange one, next, more nothing. i do not know even how i returned at my place. it was in january 2003. i next more had not again to june 2004. helena called me. she me required pardon without explaining me why. i wanted to know when she came to morocco; she replied me that philippe had been stopped by the agadir police and that it had been forbidden stay to morocco (…). they destroyed my future". in prison, in his despair, majdouline did silence vœu. she remains in collection, refuses to mix with the other girls, flees their dramas to them. the one of a sâadiya that believed a love history and that the marriage promise done by the person known as philippe ended up to blind. this same sâadiya of which the diabetic one recently amputated father flirts with the death and of which the brother does not cross anymore the threshhold of his house and does not dare to do the ten meters that the separate salesman of cigarettes to the detail. or again of this other family that wants to move but that not in has the means… they do not hold anymore in front of the inquisitive look of the near, neighbors and friends. judged everyday, tugged between their love for their girls and their anger against them. because they delivered them nude to a corporation of which the verdict is hundred times, thousand harder times than the one of a court.
mysteries. the questions that remain
• philippe servaty he been stopped in 2004 to morocco, as corroborating elements seem to indicate it, despite the denial of the official moroccans? if yes, how itself does it that his compartment be virgin, as the claim these even official one?
• why or justice, or the moroccan police did not officially ask to listen servaty?
• why the american administrator of the forum pornographique believed good to withdraw the explanations of belguel on his liberation surprised by the moroccan police, in 2004, and to what correspond the crosses (to the number of six) that replaced, on the forum, these same explanations
• why all the questions relating to the identity of the tourist were they erased, as that seems to be the case?
• all the photos (193) figuring on the fine cd were they taken by the alone belgian tourist or, as several testimonies seem to indicate it, with the assistance of other accomplices (notably a certain helena, that would have presented itself, at least once, as the companion of servaty)?
• how to explain that servaty, or belguel, was able to hold sway to agadir, during at least three long years (2001-2004), practically without stopping?
• why this that the hypothesis of a drug managed to the victims (at least one of the twelve imprisoned women about it speaks in its confessions) never was taken to the serious one, since police even the pv seem to have concealed it, excluding thus office the hypothesis of a [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)?
• which is the identity of the mysterious one "color man", accomplice and partner of the belgian tourist in several taken pornographiques?
k.b
last word. first victim (by karim boukhari)
àagadir, a reflex response pulled out to a representative of the floor some says long on contempt and injustice of which the victims of the belgian tourist are currently the object: "these girls are guilty (of lays off) with respect to the moroccan law, one will not entertain us to treat them in victims, be serious!". a reflex, pulled out other to a noncom of the police hierarchy, deserve the attention: "me, i see that the civil corporation gadirie and moroccan did not falter, i do not see therefore where is located the scandal…". there is nevertheless scandal. these women are maybe guilty to the eyes of a moroccan law that is, as each the knowledge, particularly demotes regarding liberties individual. but, in contrast to the say floor and police, in contrast to this that can give to understand the guilty silence of the civil corporation, these women are first victims. victims of a pornographe without vergogne, and of an unfair corporation and finally very not very united. leaving, it is intolerable that moroccan authorities continue to put inside the women without being very interested in their butcher, and that the numerous ngo of the place continue to do as if the agadir scandal happened elsewhere, abandoning 12 women (and of tens of others, in the expectative) to goes out for them.
For you French speakers; attached is an article on the Agadir sex "scandal", which includes some of the photos taken, and posted.
http://www.imilchil.com/koutoubia/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=157&Itemid=1
Segment translation:
In Agadir, a European tourist makes circulate photographs porn without the authorization of appearing. More than 80 women, all Morrocan women, would be concerned. 7 are already in prison, and the tourist disappeared. Inquire into a scandal on the way to become national.
"All left the complaint deposited by Samira *. If there had not been of complaint, there no would have been business, nor people thrown in prison" (note: a man, seven women of which the plaintiff!). It is a source very close to the file which makes us this surprising statement. April 22, Samira, a 42 year old teacher, single person, residing at the popular district of Sidi Youssef in Agadir, learns, by one of his/her friends, that CD including/understanding of the pornographic photographs, of which them his, is put in circulation, at the price of 25 dh. Samira goes in certain an Hassan, supposed to engrave and resell famous CD. It does not find CD, but an address Internet is indicated to him from which all the photographs were taken. No the chance, the site in question, www.marocsluts.tk ("sluts" wants to say "English *****s") from now on is closed and Samira ends nevertheless up getting a copy of CD of the one of its close relations. The price is already gone down to 10 DH, all the district does not speak any more that CD, and Samira then chooses to take the initiative, by addressing a complaint to the parquet floor of Agadir, on the subject "of pornographic photographs relating to it, taken and marketed without its assent". The prosecutor immediately seizes the Criminal Investigation Department of Agadir which convenes the girl and invests the room of the retailer.
April 28, already, the business takes a new turn. Samira changes its testimony: "Yes, these photographs are not faked, they were taken with my assent by 36 years a Belgian tourist, who presented himself under the name of Philippe Sarfati, and said journalist to the daily newspaper" the Evening "(...) I knew Philippe in January 2001, via banal Chat Internet. It promised the marriage to me and moved to Agadir, a few weeks to later pass its leave there. We left much, we made love freely, I yielded with all his requests ". One year later, Philippe returns to Agadir, re-examines Samira and asks him, this time, to pose for him, in clearly pornographic positions. "I accepted, tells Samira, because it convinced me that these photographs were intended for him exclusively, to remember ego when it would be in Belgium...". The history of love, and sex, is spread out thus over two years, during which Philippe carries out several return tickets in Agadir. "Even when it was at his place, in its country, it sent malls to me to maintain our history and I opened in my turn with him to tell him all my secrecies. I never suspected nothing and, to prove its good faith to me, it went until me to send, once, one of the photographs which it had taken of me. I believed it until the day when I discovered, almost by chance, thanks to one of its telephone SMS, which it was again in Agadir "
Article in various languages:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=fr_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fboujdournet.free.fr%2fboujdour%2fmodules.php%3fname%3dNews%26file%3darticle%26sid%3d516
Member #2001
06-19-05, 10:41
Its a good thing I copied all of those pictures on my hard drive before they all got deleted. They are nice for me to have on file. Maybe I might upload them in a year or so, jsut as a reminder of Begiels exploits.
Feel bad for those Morrocan women though, being put in jail and all and for the lives of the families that have to suffer through all of that unwanted pubilicity.
As far as Begiel goes, I wish him all the best. He was a good photographer though. I really do enjoy all of his pics. The ones of the table were really interesting, but with all due respect, Begiel new what he was getting into when he took all those pictures. I think he will be alot safer in the DR now. The thing about Morroco really sucks though, but I for one really do admire his guts and photographic skils.
I think I will have to take another look at those pictures now and reminise.
GoodEnough
06-19-05, 23:51
I just went to the site and read the article, and it seems to me a fairly typical reaction of a state which has had the lid blown off of its own hypocrticial facade of sexual morality. That prostitution exists, and apparently flourishes in Marocco could not have come as a major surprise to the authorities, but to have the practice made public necessitated the appearance of public outrage by the same government that has tolerated the practice for decades.
I guess it's always easier (and a lot more convenient) to obsess about the "deviant" behavior of others (which harms no one) than it is to fix the structural injustices of your own society. Hell, Bush and his administration are extremely proficient at doing the same thing, so why should it come as any surprise that the political powers of a country like Morocco indulge in such behavior?
GE
The Belguel Story, executive summary-style:
(For people not inclined to wade through endless pages of translated French)
After enjoying Belguel's Moroccan pictures on this site, two opportunistic Moroccan brothers thought this type of material would sell like greased lightning in Morocco, and decided to make & distribute a CD documenting our friend's exploits. This CD became an instant hit, selling nationwide for $5-$1.
Unfortunately, one of the CD's stars (a 42 year old teacher) recognized herself on the CD, and filed a complaint with the authorities. The Moroccan police quickly tracked down the CD's distributors + the girls involved. Many confessed and received prison sentences up to one year in a Moroccan (!!) jail.
The thing which horrified Moroccan society the most however, was that the authorities made no attempt to find or prosecute the western sex tourist. A few grassroots bloggers, in close cooperation with the daily 'Telquel', were able to track down the culprit.
Our friend Belguel allegedly turned out to be Philippe S, a respected journalist working for the Belgian daily 'Le Soir'. Until recently, he wrote lofty articles about such things like Tsunami relief and the importance of microcredits to the third world.
When the scandal finally hit Belgium (June 14), Belguel resigned from his job. While consenting, legal-age sex tourism is legal in Belgium, Moroccan authorities will file a complaint against him with the Belgian courts for the Belgian offense of 'Inciting Racial Hatred'. While the charge will probably not hold up in court, the case may force Belguel in the open, which might not be advisable as some voices within Belgium's Moroccan immigrant community have called for traditional revenge.
Our friend is however very likely to escape prosecution or harm. This cannot be said of the women in jail. Numerous Moroccan newspaper articles write that the ladies confessed after 'more intense interrogation'. Everyone knows what this means in Morocco.
Some people may want to interprete this story as a warning, and be a bit more discreet.
ebonylvr
True good research and journalism.
Belguel or better Phillippe S. might still be a hero for some mongers out there. For me i can not find much admiration from his deeds. He was always able to cover his face in all the photos. he did not seem to show the necessity to cover any of the girls faces. Nor does it appear that he had any approval of the girls to have them exposed on the net.
You will never find him doing this typ of photos from girls of his country.
Evaluatation of the marrocan society and its legal views does not put away the fact that he has ruined the life of others, be it due to their naive nature, or through his cuninging lies.
ebonylvr
True good research and journalism.
Belguel or better Phillippe S. might still be a hero for some mongers out there. For me I can not find much admiration from his deeds. He was always able to cover his face in all the photos. He did not seem to show the necessity to cover any of the girls faces. Nor does it appear that he had any approval of the girls to have them exposed on the net.
You will never find him doing this typ of photos from girls of his country.
Evaluatation of the marrocan society and its legal views does not put away the fact that he has ruined the life of others, be it due to their naive nature, or through his cuninging lies.TeeGee,
You are absolutely right, i totally agree with you. Even if i liked the pictures i hated the guy to expose the girls faces. WHAT A DAMAGE HE DID TO THEM.
Hi folks,
The misfortune of Philippe Salvaty is a lesson for all of us.
As I mentionned in all my reports, respect and discretion is the most important step to have fun in morocco.
Working chicks in Morocco don't have the same status than in western country. In fact, the social context where a girl can't have a boyfriend as they want because of their education or family bring them to meet tourists to satisfy their frustation. This is why anyone must not treat Moroccan chicks as *****s like in western country. When you meet a chick in Morocco, she behaves like your girlfriend, she's kind with you and you almost give her love. When you give her money, it s a gift and not a transaction. With this money, she doesn t buy drugs or else, she spends this to live, to buy clothes etc. When they accept to be taken in pics, this is because they trust any friend they meet (I'm talkin of friend and not customer!). Try to ask any working chicks in US or Europe to be taken in pics, they ll put furious!
This is why I think that showing pics like Philippe S. is like showing your own friend pics : there is not morality and i can't believe that Philippe S. could be a repectable journalist, specialized in world economy and finance who defends the poor countries cause.
To Jackson and the members who read this post: In repsect of the WSG rules and the right of discretion for the world wide chicks, please delete all the pictures with showed girls face from this forum.
In respect for the human kind.
Tik.
GoodEnough
06-23-05, 11:35
I doubt seriously that Philippe S. meant for any harm to come to these ladies. If he's guilty of anything, it's underestimating the hypocrisy of the local authorities, or perhaps naivete. Give the guy a break. He did nothing that hundreds of other guys on this board and others didn't do and continue to do. I'm quite sure he did not realize the consequences for the women, nor did he (probably) anticipate that his photos would be exploited by local entrepreneurs.
The whole episode is unfortunate, but it says a hell of alot more about the local judiciary than it does about the guy who was taking the pictures.
Frankypanky
06-23-05, 13:44
I doubt seriously that Philippe S. meant for any harm to come to these ladies. If he's guilty of anything, it's underestimating the hypocrisy of the local authorities, or perhaps naivete. Give the guy a break. He did nothing that hundreds of other guys on this board and others didn't do and continue to do. I'm quite sure he did not realize the consequences for the women, nor did he (probably) anticipate that his photos would be exploited by local entrepreneurs.
The whole episode is unfortunate, but it says a hell of alot more about the local judiciary than it does about the guy who was taking the pictures.You're right!
Espacially, because Belquel DID cover the eyes later on, after an other member explained that it was not such a good idea to place the pics like he did before.
I do not think that Phillippe / Belquel just has been noticed for putting the pics online, as an Arab from Saudi also was charged after a girl warned the police.
But indeed, there is a lot of hypocrisy going on in this matter, both in Morroco as well as in this topic!
Excuse my English
I doubt seriously that Philippe S. meant for any harm to come to these ladies. If he's guilty of anything, it's underestimating the hypocrisy of the local authorities, or perhaps naivete. Give the guy a break. He did nothing that hundreds of other guys on this board and others didn't do and continue to do. I'm quite sure he did not realize the consequences for the women, nor did he (probably) anticipate that his photos would be exploited by local entrepreneurs.
The whole episode is unfortunate, but it says a hell of alot more about the local judiciary than it does about the guy who was taking the pictures.It's the outcome that matters and he did a lot of harm to the girls involved.
That's the fact. Another thing is (talking about hypocrisy) he knew very well to cover his face? Right?
Well then, I am proud to live in a country where it is not allowed to publish even a normal picture from someone without permission. Sweden.
Any Moroccan who reads newspapers has now the web adress of our forum. Yet, the pictures of the girls are still exposed. Please Mr Jackson, when will they finally be removed? Even Belguel asked them to be removed!
Belguel is OK, I've read on a Belgian forum that somebody has met him in Brussels. But the girls are not. They are sentenced to prison, and anybody can imagine what they are doing to those girls in jail.
These girls where no hardcore pros. They were just normal girls dreaming like any Moroccan girl about the Western world, in order to escape poverty and muslim conservatism. Their dreams make them thrust blindely any Western man. I have to admit that I have watched all those pictures, and I was afraid of recognizing anybody. I personaly care a lot for a few girls who live in Morocco. And yes, it could have been any girl.
Blaming the Moroccan authorities or the muslim conservatism on this board will be of no help. Educating the fellow members on how to behave while hobbying in such country is much more usefull. This board is not only a sex forum, it's about having sex all over the world, and travelling is trying to understand different cultures. Yes, Belguel probably didn't intend to make harm, but he didn't follow the basic rules of mongering in Morocco. The first one is discretion. Fellow members knowing better Morocco should have warned him about this. We are all responsable about the Belguel case.
Political opinion put apart, in the Irak war thousand of people have been killed for mass destruction weapons that have never exist. But the biggest scandal were the pictures of a few naked prisoners taken by a US female military. Yet, the pictures of Abou Graib are soft pictures compared to the Belguel pics. Don't underestimate the effect of pictures on public opinion.
For a group of people in Morocco now, any WSG member is a dangerous pervert, any girl pictured on the forum is less than a piece of shit. They've found out what's the real name of Belguel. Any WSG member active on this thread may be found the same way.
I love the WSG forum for it's genuine info without any flashing effects and pop up sex pics. Attaching pictures with the reports may give additional info, but is in my humble opinion risky. What used to be a forum of true hobbyists trying to share info, may bring in all kind of surfers attracted only by the sex pics and that have nothing to do on this board. There is no need putting this forum in the spotlights, and being the target of all kind of anti sex perverts: muslim and other religious fanatics, right wing organisation, feminist organisation and so on...
I do not pretend to have the solution. But we probably have to add rules in the forum policy about the pics. My opinion is that we simply can not agree that on our forum we are exposing worldwide pictures of naked identifiable girls (and worse in sexual positions) without their consent. No matter if it is Thailand or a conservative muslim country.
I agree with Routard.
If there is one lesson to draw from the Belguel case:
No woman should be identifiable on pictures posted.
There are tons of tools available to easily blur/blacken faces on jpeg pictures.
Local Expert
06-29-05, 07:29
Viewing pictures should be allowed ONLY for senior members ! Such a rule would keep off perverts from ruining this site and encourage serious mongers to add info to this board... and get "promoted".
I cannot imagine a senior member going to the police and complaining about Belguel's posts after having posted detailed reports himself on this board in the past, ..... but I can very well imagine this action by any other guy.
Any Moroccan who reads newspapers has now the web adress of our forum. Yet, the pictures of the girls are still exposed. Please Mr Jackson, when will they finally be removed? Even Belguel asked them to be removed!Yes, these pictures are still exposed ! How is it possible Mr Jackson ? Dont you understand that you also are guilty for the harm done to these marocan girls?
Greetings everyone,
There's been a lot of discussion on The Forum regarding the continued presence of Belguel's photos in The Forum. Some forum members (mostly new, one time posters) have suggested that the photos should be deleted. Personally, I'm neutral on the subject, other than a general interest in building the Forum's photo collection. Therefor I've decided to open up a poll on the issue in order to better gauge the feeling of the membership before I make a decision.
This poll will be open for voting for just one week ending July 7th in order to prevent vote packing by Muslim fanatics.
In addition to taking the poll, you are welcome to post your written viewpoints in this thread.
As always, I look forward to your observations.
Thanks,
Jackson
I think the pix should be deleted, at least the one with faces visible.
---------
Everything went wrong in this case.
We should admit this and be consequent.
Some of the girls on the photos are in prison (under most miserable conditions I guess, rumors about sucide is also around), and this fact alone should be enough to delete the evidence.
----------
And the pixs are not lost. Some have copied them already for there private collection.
If others want the CD, they can find the CD on the black market in Agadir.
----------
There are enough sexy pixs of other girls from other countries in the forum, so we do not need these which did and still can do harm to our forum.
---------
Regards,
John A.
Daddy Lows
06-30-05, 10:38
I say leave 'em. If it's offensive to someone then they have to simply not go to this website. I don't get some people. But I understand opinions are opinions. ANd mine is to leave 'em be. As... a historical record, per se.
Peace
Local Expert
06-30-05, 12:17
If the pics are erased, THESE self declared "religious" or "nationalist" blackmailers in Morrocco and the rest of the world have won. We should not give them this satisfaction ! The pics show, that sexuality in ALL its versions, colors, etc. is part of being a homo sapiens sapiens, regardless of the religion, cultural, social heritage, etc.
If we do not erase the pics, we will cause probs to the girls even beyond their prison sentence, what WE certainly do not want.
Therefore, it might be the best solution to cover each girls faces, but leave the pics on-line. I know that this will cause another afternoon of work for Jackson, but it will be worth it.
Neyzen Tevfik
06-30-05, 13:24
I am Muslim.
I say LEAVE THEM AS THEY ARE.
There are twisted minded people in every religion.
I do not believe this has something to do with religion.
It's just "NOT BEING ABLE TO DIGEST" what they see (or eat)...
Carpe Diem.
please read carefully the moroccan thread before polling. this matter has taken a dramatic issue, far beyond the limits of this forum. while we are polling confortable sitting behind our pc, some innocent girls (again, they were not even pros) are raped in prison, their complete life destroyed, while others not yet catched fear the same. we are all responsable.
don't mix it up with liberty of speach. in any free country it is forbidden to publicly expose pictures of identifiable people naked in sexual positions without their consent. be glad that the law protects individual privacy. even in an open minded society, would you agree if your daughter or your sister was publicly exposed in a sexual position, just because she had met the wrong boyfriend?
please, we all love sex. it doesn't mean that we don't respect mankind.
Neyzen Tevfik
06-30-05, 15:38
After reading the forum and witnessing what a mess this situation has become; I changed my mind.
I do believe that BELGUEL's photos (and posts,too) must be deleted.
I also put my signature under LE's comment that, picture viewing should be retricted to Senior Members only...
Jackson: Your note below lacks objectivity on at least the first two counts:
1. you say mostly new members support removing Belguel's photos. This might be construed as an attempt to influence voters and to make potential voters believe that those senior members who cheered Belguel on are more open or something.
2. You make comments about Muslim fanatics: the photos deliberately insult all Muslims. He pisses and comes in the faces of veiled Muslim women. He was asking for trouble. Do it outside a mosque and see what happens.
3. Most members here only look at photos and do not post. Sure, his photos were unique and helped make this site a fuck zoo but that is not the intention of the site, which is to help men find women to fuck.
4. Also boasting about paying Cameroon women one euro stockings for a fuck shows a degenerate mind. Belguel's game was degrading women, not fucking them.
5. Posting such photos is a deliberate provocation to Muslims and many others.
6. I am not voting. Nor am I getting Muslim fanatics to stack the vote. They are probably simply into fucking women, not fucking women over.
7. Have you ever been to a proper Muslim brothel Jackson, not one of those "bare fanlight of a bulb" BA bj places. I have been to Bursa's (Turkey - lots of big titters for Nibu). It is bigger than BA and is a wonderland. But Muslims do not [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) on veiled faces.
8. And if they did, they could use the feeble excuse that they were Muslims, not fucked up Europeans with a disreputable history towards Muslims.
9. I got that Bali Ocker babe checked out with Homeland Security by the way. Their take is: as she was caught with the dope, she is reponsible. That, you will admit, is better than the anti Muslim crusade the Aussies went on over her. Are we to also go on an "anti Muslim fanatic" crusade over a guy who pisses, shits and comes over them?
Sweetboy07
06-30-05, 18:03
On one side if the girls are pros, this means for me that they are somehow "public" girls and should assume what they are doing but this is only possible in a country where prostitution is accepted.
The only reproach we can have against Belguel is that he publish pictures from this girls against their agreement and he knews what the consequences could be. The reproach that he was with a 17 years old girl is a bit light when you read that this girl was married by force at the age of 14!
I believe that a good decision (as local expert proposed) is to leave this pictures but to hide the faces that no one can recognize the person. This protect the girls and keep the interest of this forum. (Jackson: I can help you to do it if you want).
We should not take in account that the girls was Muslim or/and in a muslim country, this has nothing to do with religion. Basically it has no reason to forbid prostitution: every one is free to do what (s)he want with her body.
If you check the situation in the world, you can remark that more a country is a state of right and better is the situation of the prostitutes.
The Muslim people should evoluate and start to consider the women equal in right to the men and accept their freedom.
Bori Begin
06-30-05, 19:01
Why should one country be given special preference? Please leave the Moroccan pictures.
Marconista
06-30-05, 22:57
My view on this is that Belguel when reading the forum contact you to give his view on this.
I am sure he is monitoring this thread, and I think he might have some thoughts about the consequense of doing one thing or the other with the photos.
Me - I'm neutral, and have not voted.
For a first post, I have to say that the problem is not the pictures.
If we are veridic, they are not very nice, nor artistic, nor even exciting.
The problem is the USE other people did with it.
To day any how the "bad" is done. The CD was made and it is in circulation but no need to put more weight on the shoulders of the girls and most of them are not pro.
So in my side, only for this reason I suggest to delete it.
One question for the administrators: this forum is to learn, to get informations or to improuve some kind of ego of some members ?
In all the cases problems may happen to the girls, it is better to delete it or minimum to make the persons not easy to recognice.
Thank you
Hi Jackson,
You don't need a poll!
You are the admin, and we rely on you to use your best judgement. The opinions of other members, myself included, who are not personally effected are totally irrelevant.
I run a few other websites and forums, I would like to offer my opinion as an admin if I may: When in doubt, delete the posts/pictures. The reason being that the pictures are there only to serve a marginal purpose of sharing an experience, no real harm is done by not having the pictures, nobody is going to die tomorrow. On the other hand, if showing the pictures (or divulging other personal info) may mean harms, or problems, or even embarrasments to the parties involved (who did not volunteered it in the first place) then we should always err on the cautious side, and remove these pictures.
I go so far as saying, even if the people involved simply ask without giving me a really good reason, I would still take the pictures down.
Vegas
GoodEnough
07-01-05, 01:05
it's always tempting to view a debate such as this in absolute moral terms such as the universal right of women to decide what they do with their own bodies, or the universal principle of freedom of speech or individual freedoms in general. however, while there exist oppressive political systems that are capable of whimsically denying individual rights, and committed to narrow-minded, retrogressive persecution of those who injure no one, then the ramifications associated with being morally correct have to be balanced against the damage done to those who are victims of unjust systems. it's for this reason; for the harm that can come to these and other young women, that i advocate deleting the pictures.
if this is construed as a victory for the religious zealots and self-rightous moral arbiters of morocco, then so be it. their victory is at best pyhrric, and they must know, somewhere in their narrow little minds that, in the end, they can never win.
ge
I’m an atheist and a sincere Muslim sympathizer. I know that this is not an easy question to answer. Prostitution and even nudity are substantially offensive in a number of cultures. It is up to each person to choose their values, and I respect every person’s right to do so.
Being a minority religion, I know what my values are, and I am also aware that not everyone else in the world shares my values. Living in the bible belt for years has proved this to me. Indeed, most Christians living in the bible belt would find the contents of the usasexguide forum most offensive.
WSG is a community where people who value enjoying themselves in a certain way can meet and share experiences. We are forced to use computer mediated communication, in the form of text and pictures. This is not a community for preachers or catholic priests (although who knows…), it is for us, men who enjoy the company of women with minimal strings attached.
I hope that my fellow mongers are not racists or bigots, so I would encourage Jackson to remove any racist, hateful or ignorant postings. (say, a photo of a prostitute holding a sign with a derogatory slur). I hope that he would not allow any photos taken of women without their knowledge, as the argument can be made that the safety of these women might be in danger if their image gets out.
The only parties who’s opinions matter should be the people in the photos and the members of the WSG community. Those who are offended do use the forum, but they are not members of the community that I described above. If the subjects of the photos are willing, then this forum should be “viewed at your own risk” in terms of being offended. Infact, I believe the sign up screen may have language to that effect.
In summary, while I know what we discuss and share here is offensive to a number of people, in a number of places, this is a forum for people who enjoy the company of women. It only follows that we will use whatever means we can (text and photos) to communicate our experiences, and this is where we do that. Censorship should only follow our values, and I do not believe that by in large we disapprove of nude photos of women. As such, I respectfully submit one vote to allow the photos to stay.
Neyzen Tevfik
07-01-05, 08:57
Please red the post of VEGAS#2 very carefully. He is absolutely right.
I am getting more and more worried about where this discusions are leading to.
We are HUMAN and GENTLEMEN at first, then mongerers.
I see that the votes are constantly moving towards "NO" choice. This may be because most voters do not have time to read the Moroccan forum and realize the facts behind this poll.
I strongly suggest Jackson to use his authority as the moderator, examine his own values and decide freely, without taking the poll into account.
What if all the perverts of the World are voting and the gentlemen are not ? Will evil win ?
Carpe Diem
Hi Jackson,
You don't need a poll!
You are the admin, and we rely on you to use your best judgement. The opinions of other members, myself included, who are not personally effected are totally irrelevant.
I go so far as saying, even if the people involved simply ask without giving me a really good reason, I would still take the pictures down.
Vegas
Jackson,
I agree with most of the comment of Vega #2 and Domino.
However, while we are discussing and pooling on the need to let or not these photos on the site, it is actually already too late.
Many people have had time enought to download these pics and, as I have read from Belgian newspapers, even in Morocco, guys have downloaded these photos for making CD-roms that were sold under the counter.
Worse, since this is now discussed openly in the Belgian medias (I have even seen an interview of Belguel - with masked face, though - two days ago on a Belgian TV network), many people try to get copies of these pics. Some of them (fortunatelly enough, those with masked faces) have already been put on the Banker's site be a guy who probably had dowloaded them here.
If you are not decided to remove them right now, at least would it not be technically possible to prevent a download of these pics.
Finally, I think that these pics tell much more about Philippe Servaty's (i.e. Belguel's real name) obsessions than what can be found in Morocco. Please note that Servaty also stated in his interview that he is now under therapy for his sexual behaviours.
Sweetboy07:
These girls where no pros, so no "public" girls. Nobody has the right to publicly expose naked pictures of those girls without their consent.
Marconista:
Yes, Belguel had officially asked to M. Jackson to remove his pictures. In a way, he has the copyright of it.
(Mr Jackson, apart from this specifical issue, what is the legal situation about all the reports and pictures of this forum, is the copyright belonging to the member that has posted them or to the forum administrator, or have they all become public like "shareware"?)
Hi Routard,
The answer is both. By posting a report or photograph, you give me a limited copyright to those items, which allows me to re-publish them as I may wish. However, this is not an exclusive copyright, and as the original author you still retain a copyright which allows you to sell, give, distribute or otherwise re-publish them as you may wish. You may also bring copyright infrigement actions against anyone else who might sell, give, distribute or otherwise re-publish them except me.
Thanks,
Jackson
Marauder:
The pictures have not been taken against their knowledge, but have been exposed on Internet against their knowledge and agreement.
Please, read carefully the Moroccan thread before polling, and you may change your mind, like Neyzen Tevfik did.
Beau Bob:
You gave us additional info.
Belguel under therapy for his sexual behaviour. I will not judge Belguel, as he is a WSG member. Just read also his adventures in Cameroon and make your personal opinion.
After the Moroccan newspapers, Belguel on Belgian TV. This makes me shivering. An international trial based on the fact that one of the girl was a minor...Just enter "Belguel" on any search engine, you will be surprised about the result (I've even seen a picture of Belguel' face, he indeed has a "Belle Gueule", which means nice face). All this unecessary publicity about our forum...
Mr. Jackson, it took you years of hard work to build up this forum, world's best sex travel forum by far. Just read some sections like the Thailand section or the USA section, it's not easy to get everything under controll and keep a high quality forum. In my opinion, one of the reason of this success apart from the excellent job you do to keep it under controll, is that the board has no flashing pics and pop up screens that could attract all kind of people that have nothing to do on this board. The belguel pics are getting too famous and will attract all kind of perverts and anti sex perverts that may ruin this forum!
It´s not a question of religion. (Good enough) You are completely wrong and make it easy for you. We have to respect all people and Belguel DID NOT. A coward who used innocent girls. For what reason? To remove the pictures now I do not have any opinion since it is too late, the damage is done.
This is the headline of a Belgian news service yesterday.
(if interested, go to this website and click on "translate this page"):
www.dhnet.be/dbinfos/article.phthl?id=124824
Belguel further explains that he regrets his actions. He is seeking mercy from the authorities, as he is now being charged. He is in hiding from the public (with his wife and child), but the Moroccan and Belgian authorities are working together to prosecute him. It is likely he will spend a significant time in jail.
It appears true that a number of the girls he photographed are in jail, and their families are trying to get them out.
By the way, my own opinion is that no-one (the girls or Belguel) should go to jail for consensual sex, paid or otherwise.
As for the photos, I'm against censorship, but in this case, I believe that removing the full-face photos is the right thing to do, at least for the girls involved. The explosive publicity with the upcoming trial will expose them to many more viewers in Morocco who will easily recognise them.
Hi fellow mongers,
As an muslim member of this forum living in europe and knowing the scene in morocco since long time I would like to state this:
The posting of the pics did harm to young girls that surely would not have agreed to be put into the world wide web.
This made it possible for so called (Moroccan? ) business men to sell them on cd's and to make things more worse then they have already been after Belguel being arrested last year by Moroccan police (Moroccan officials obviously seem to deny this for what reason ever). Belguel both as an intellectual writer of a famous newspaper and an insider of what is going on in Morocco should have respected the privacy of his girls. First not to bring them close to prison and destroy their private lifes, second not to upset certain kind of persons that already last year tried to find out what's the real personality behind "Belguel", and third not to give the impression to non-members that we members of WSGForum are not human beings.
As an other member already wrote those pics upset Muslim/moroccan public in a propably stronger way than those pics of Abu Ghraib that anybody who travells around the world and does not make a difference between black or white, muslim-christian- jew or what else, rich or poor, can't accept. This attitude does not mean to make a difference between an Muslim country, Europe, Asia or USA. As we all should respect the privacy of other people / especially girls we met it's not O.K. just to cover our faces to keep our privacy, we also should avoid anything that could bring trouble, shame or even in the case of the moroccan girls punishment to our partner girls. I know a lot of muslim countries as very open and tolerant to people like us, belguel also did but he crossed the red line by probably not thinking about the consequences of posting his pics.
In this free world of the world wide web everybody should know how easy and quickly things can go into the wrong direction, so let's delete belguels pics even though it's already to late for his girls but anyone that made a financial profit from copying those pics and selling them to some "voyeurs" esp. in morooco or in countries where pics like that are not allowed should be hit by the justice of allah / god.
After just coming back from Aga/morocco I can strongly recommend this. People are upset seeing veiled girls having sex etc. Those pics obviously gave a wrong im-pression about what most of our co-members are doing or looking for. Have a look into moroccon websites discussing this issue. As an other member already wrote, posting pics without permission in his country ( sweden ) is illegal. So it is in most european countries and propably also in the USA. The moroccan girls now imprisoned they do not have a chance to claim their rights in Europe and have lost much more than an european girl could loose in a similar case.
So please accept the will of the girls that can't talk to us, accept the will of Belguel / Philippe Servaty and furtheron have more respect for the girls we meet and think about the reaction of those people that might know them.
Nez99naz
Frenchhero
07-01-05, 23:26
Belguel's pictures should have been removed as soon as he asked them to be removed. He would not be in deep trouble now and those girls would not be in jail if he had the possibility to delete them previously.
Some Belgian politicians have travelled to Morocco asking the girls to sue him for posting their pictures. Feminist organisations might do the same in other countries in order to erase sexual tourism.
Ferolga777
07-02-05, 01:04
I feel for the man. He is being persecuted by the repressive forces of the Moroccan government. No longer an anonymous poster, he must face this persecution.
I would do the prudent thing and delete his photos.
http://www.dhnet.be/index.phtml?content=http://www.dhnet.be/dhinfos/article.phtml?id=124824
the above link gives a beguel photo, complete with his real name, and a blanked out face of one of the women kneeling astride his infamous coffee table. for the francophobes: belguel admits he is a sexual pervert (check the sub editor's title), that he loves islam, that he has worked for muslim causes and that he pisses, shits and cums on veiled muslim women out of respect for islam and all muslims. the above link and many more like it make sure this is not the end of the story. same as the traveler and his infamous child [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) photos.
the only mitigating factor from this site's point of view is that, as belguel is a journalist (probably feelancing or stringing right now), his fellow hacks might go easy on him - and this site. otherwise, his desire to mainstream his perversions and the desires of others to jerk off to them will cause future problems. this story will not go away and it paints all sex travelers, not just belguel and the traveler, as the lowest of the low. expect stories like those to do the rounds for many more years to come.
I think that Belguel is courageous it pays for its courage ila published photographs of Moroccan girls in positions humilliantes it is true but it is necessary to see what the seoudiens do and in general the Eastern ones in Morocco it is worse. And there it is true a humilliation but the seoudiens are intelligent they do not publish their acts wretched on the Net.
Chocho Negro
07-03-05, 17:49
http://www.dhnet.be/index.phtml?content=http://www.dhnet.be/dhinfos/article.phtml?id=124824
The above link gives a Beguel photo, complete with his real name, and a blanked out face of one of the women kneeling astride his infamous coffee table. For the Francophobes: Belguel admits he is a sexual pervert (check the sub editor's title), that he loves Islam, that he has worked for Muslim causes and that he pisses, shits and cums on veiled Muslim women out of respect for Islam and all Muslims.The info given in this quote is a least a very free translation from the original french text at the link, and certainly blows up the french text.
The original french text does not say the he loves Islam. It says he said he never wanted to insult Islam.
The original french text does not say that he pisses, shits and cums on veiled Muslim women, and even less that he does so out of respect for Islam and all Muslims. Not a single word that could even be seen as related to this wording.
Translation must be fair and limit itself to to original text.
Myself I did vote to remove the photos.
Regards,
Carpe diem,
CN.
Chocho Negro
07-03-05, 18:16
A google search with "philippe servaty" produces 600+ links, and some of these are really interesting, at least if you can read french. Several references to this forum and Jackson.
http://www.aujourdhui.ma/servaty-agadir-justice-belge-details763.html
http://www.lagazettedumaroc.com/articles.php?id_artl=6792&r=2&sr=830
http://www.infosdumaroc.com/modules/news/article-139.html
and a very extensive text a this forum
http://forums.avmaroc.com/archive/o_t__t_3068__scandale-porno-d%E2%80%99agadir.-sur-la-piste-du-coupable.html
Also photos of him.
Regards,
Carpe diem,
CN.
Ferolga777
07-03-05, 21:44
governments and people dictate what can be seen in WSG. I enjoyed the photos and would have wanted for everyone to enjoy them and be cool about it.
However, now we face the situation of unintended consequences. Belguel lost his job over the photos. He maybe even faces judicial proceedings against him. He's certainly banned from Morocco. If that happened to any valuable contributor, would Jackson's position be, "Tough luck, buddy. Deal with it and don't ask me to remove the source of your problems."
I say this as someone who hasn't contributed one single photo to WSG. As someone who has contributed a few posts, hopefully informative. This will be my last post on the subject.
God bless,
Ferolga
Marconista
07-03-05, 22:04
........A coward who used innocent girls. ....
I refuse to accept such terms when categorizing our member Belguel!
The ladies in question knew photos were taken, and should have refused, but did not, as far as we know.
You can not call the ladies "innocent", as they participated freely, and were paid for what happened.
From the information stated here, that Belguel has requested J to remove the pictures, I vote for the removal.
Belguel, friend, I hope you are doing OK.
what's truly scary to me is that the pictures are still here long after the AUTHOR of the pictures has requested they be taken down and long after the author indicated that they are being removed not because of a whim, but because of real and serious legal ramifications.
If I were "Belguel" my comment would be along the lines of "look you fucking idiot, I'm in deep shit here and I want my pictures offline, what about this request do you NOT understand??
instead we are having a protracted discussion about this and even a stupid "poll" has been put up.
This should be a non negotiable discussion. If they're my pictures and I want them off, they're off (though I recognize many webmasters don't look at it this way)
Which is of course why you'll never see a single pic of mine grace the webpages of this and such forums. It's like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute.
not to mention that fact that there is an understanding between myself and almost all of the girls who I photograph, that the pictures are meant for my private consumption, rather than having them freely posted on a completely open and public site, with access available to anyone with a computer and the ability to type in a certain URL.
questions about Belguel's ethics aside (and there are some questions), the bigger question now surrounds the ethics or COMMON SENSE of this site's administrator/webmaster.
the silver lining is that those who post pics here can now be fully aware of just what COULD happen.
you kids have fun.
everyone is missing the point here, which is...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what's truly scary to me is that the pictures are still here long after the AUTHOR of the pictures has requested they be taken down and long after the author indicated that they are being removed not because of a whim, but because of real and serious legal ramifications.
If I were "Belguel" my comment would be along the lines of "look you fucking idiot, I'm in deep shit here and I want my pictures offline, what about this request do you NOT understand??
instead we are having a protracted discussion about this and even a stupid "poll" has been put up.
This should be a non negotiable discussion. If they're my pictures and I want them off, they're off (though I recognize many webmasters don't look at it this way)
Which is of course why you'll never see a single pic of mine grace the webpages of this and such forums. It's like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute.
to to mention that fact that there is an understanding between myself and almost all of the girls who I photograph, that the pictures are meant for my private consumption, rather than having them freely posted on a completely open and public site, with access available to anyone with a computer and the ability to type in a certain URL.
questions about Belguel's ethics aside (and there are a LOT of questions), the bigger question now surrounds the ethics or COMMON SENSE of this site's administrator/webmaster.
the silver lining is that those who post pics here can now be fully aware of just what COULD happen.
you kids have fun.
It's not only that the "author" wants the pics to be deleted, it's the girls! Everybody who knows arab countries and esp. morocco knows that no ***** would accept to be photo graphed ( esp. in positions like Belguel did ). In any other country I think it's similar, bitches refuse photos, non-pros accept because they wish / believe in the promises their male-partner probably gave to them before (Prince Charming from a rich country to speak in Belguels language) or what they wish he would do.
At all, nobody should have the right and in most of the modern-western countries nobody has the right to post pictures like Belguel does without permission. It's not that sex / prostituion disappears in morocco (or in any other country) due to belguels photos, but it destroyed the lifes of - so my point of view - real innocent girls that did a step across some red lines with a nice looking, educated, intelligent and eloquent guy like belguel ( the well-know belgium journalist ). Do you think that those girls and women ( even a teacher !!!) would have made love with any drunken, unshaved, big-belly sex-tourist and even more accepted being photo-graphed ? Morocco is still a country where people are very proud of themselves and their culture and nobody would dare to bring shame to their families.
I think instead of polling about deleting those pics every gentlemean in this forum should do whatever he can to help those girls out of their miserable situation. Those girls have been seduced/abused and made visible to a world wide public, what would not be to harmful for them, but being made " public " in morocco to their friends, neighbours and esp. their families means a punishment that western people can't imagine.
I hope that everybody who can talk about this subject with moroccans ( people on the street, moroccans living abroad, journalists, doctors, lawyers, members of the admini-stration or goverment or even with the royal family ) tries to help those poor girls out of their situation.
For me as an muslim / moroccan being born in Europe, educated and not at all any kind of fundamentalsit - but believing in equal rights for men and women - can state that Belguels deeds did harm to us all. I don't want to say "shame over Belguel " because it's him to cope with the situtation and I believe he's now aware what he has done -to his girls, his family and to himself.
All relations between men and women should be on a level that nobody from outside can make an intervention but this demands that we show respect to one another not only when having fun/sex, but also after that. As I would never accept to be posted in any forum naked for people that probably have no chance of having sex with a girl and therefor tend to voyeurism, I did always respect my partners interest of keeping things secret between them and me and therefor pics are kept private. That does not mean that you can not contribute to this forum but it means that you don't bring someone else into a bad or dangerous situation.
nez99naz
BJ Clinton
07-04-05, 00:19
I voted no before I read the comments and now I wish I could change my vote. Jeez what a mess! One thing bothers me though. This seems pretty straight forward---Belguel coerced these women into taking humiliating photos while we cheered him on (in a Muslim society no less) and now he's in a world of hurt. But why are the women in jail? They are victims, no?
What kind of backward, stone-age society punishes victims because they (the society in general) are humiliated. I'm starting to think Ann Coulter had it about right. "Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity."
That's my 2 cents worth. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I feel better
Member #2001
07-04-05, 02:30
Alot of people here, including me have the pics on thier hard drive. If the pictures were to be taken down I am sure that someone else, or even me would repost them on the thread.
I even had some guy already ask me for them, but I did not give him any of the pics. I did not know who he was and had ZERO posts. My guess was that he was morrocan and want to do his own type of busness with them, either that or some official that wanted to use the pics for some type of perscution of Begiel, another monger. Not sure the reason why, but he did not get them from me.
Regardless the genie is out of the box and once they are on the net then its free game for anyone to post on websites like this, with or without 2245 complience.
this discussion is simply amazing me. when these photos turned up at another site i used to be a member of (i guess the cuba fans remember me) i issued a strong warning against publishing any recognizable photos of porn quality involving women in muslim countries. it's clearly irresponsable.
in the last years i have been obliged to travel to many muslim countries, including iraq, iran, syria and others. i also know morocco very well. as a frequent traveler to morocco, belguel must have been fully aware of what he was doing. young women exposed like this face public shame, prosecution, honor killings or may suicide themselves. this is no fantasy, that's real.
some may have been pros, some were regular girls. it doesn't matter. their photos were published on the web without their consent, in humiliating poses, with cum or [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) on their faces. a muslim girl exposed like that has just lost any future she might have had. and this is a small world. i was absolutely sure back then that this would cause huge problems.
i have absolutely no sympathies for the belgian guy who is exposed now in the francophone press. it simply amazes me that there could be a "poll" whether those pics should still be available online, on a free site.
the girls were betrayed, and they pay a heavy price for it. it seems to me a simple act of decency not to expose them further. don't hide behind the fact that there is a cd out there. you ignored the belgian's plea to take down the photos and i wonder about the attitude you show when one of your members is in danger of spending years in jail for some stupid photos you refuse to take down.
but that you won't consider the plight of those girls is beyond any understanding. whether it makes much of a difference now is completely irrelevant. i found them in 3 minutes. any moroccan will find them in 3 minutes.
i read up on the girls in the francophone press. "only" some girls have gone to jail, about 70 are still researched by police and have obviously gone into hiding.
when will you take them down? how many suicides, how many honor killings, how many years in a filthy jail does it take? yes blame morocco for being so backward. is that the girls' fault?
the belgian guy did hide his face. no such privileges for his victims?
have you no shame, at long last?
I voted no before I read the comments and now I wish I could change my vote. Jeez what a mess! One thing bothers me though. This seems pretty straight forward---Belguel coerced these women into taking humiliating photos while we cheered him on (in a Muslim society no less) and now he's in a world of hurt. But why are the women in jail? They are victims, no?
What kind of backward, stone-age society punishes victims because they (the society in general) are humiliated. I'm starting to think Ann Coulter had it about right. "Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity."
That's my 2 cents worth. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I feel better
yes, the countries are "backward" and the society is a fucked up one.
But that's the way it is/they are and bitching about this fact isn't going to change "the facts on the ground" as they are.
and is certainly not the slightest bit of an excuse for justifying exposing the women in the pics to the consequences of being portrayed on camera in such a manner.
Try to stuffing a sock in your gf's mouth in the United States, jizzing on her face and posting those pics on a public Internet forum without her expressed consent.
We'll see how "progressive" any Western society is about such things when you get hit with a lawsuit.
the difference being that at least your gf won't be put in jail or get honor killed by members of her family.
there are two aspects to this story.
The first are the rights of the author, which is what I focused on in my post.
The second is simple common sense or better said, a sense of "humanity" and mercy when it comes to the girls in the pictures.
to be ignorant to what happens to women, especially in Muslim countries in such situations is to be inhumane or flat out downright daft and stupid.
it's dangerous to put normal full clothes pics of them in a forum such as this one, but to post pics where they have a sock stuffed in their mouth while they're getting buttfucked or with jizzshots all over their face, even more so when wearing their veil.
I mean - just how fucking STUPID can you be?
I would also question Mr. Belguel's intelligence in this matter. I don't have a problem with his "kicks", we all have our own. But he seems to have taken his worship of Max Hardcore a bit too far, in blatantly publishing such material on what is probably the most public and easily accessible of all sex travel forums on the Internet.
Max pays his women for all the things he does to them, pays them well, and has multiple model release forms so he can indeed show off, and make money doing it.
Maybe Belguel secretly yearned to be buttfucked.. in a figurative sense.
Apparently he got his wish.
I have no sympathy for him, but I do have tons of sympathy for the girls/women.
it's a fucking travesty.
Ferolga777
07-04-05, 09:42
from his editorial on not allowing talk about sex with minors. my goal in pasting the excerpt is not to be unfair to his position, but to point out a few similarities with the argument that says that the photos represent a real and present danger to the girls and to belguel.
the more i think about this topic, the more distant i get from my original position on belguel's photos. and the more information i get on belguel, the more reckless his behavior appears.
from jackson's excellent editorial.
[my comments appear in brackets.]
1. as men, it is our responsibility to protect women and children.
2. young girls, as the most vulnerable members of the human race, are especially deserving of our protection.
[women living in repressive societies are vulnerable to abuse by law enforcement and the irrational herd.]
4. as educated, intelligent, civilized men, we are expected by our peers to operate on a higher moral plane in these matters than other cultures may tolerate. therefore, we do not participate in the exploitation of emotionally **** girls, regardless of the behavior of others.
[deleted stuff that doesn't support directly my argument.]
let me see if i understand this argument: it's okay to victimize somebody who's been victimized before? so i guess it's okay to rob somebody who's already been robbed, and i guess it's also okay to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) a woman who was raped before? come on guys, just because a young girl is already a victim doesn't give you license to continue the abuse.
please remember, this is a website for men looking for sex with women.
as always, your comments are welcomed.
thank you,
jackson
1. As MEN, it is our responsibility to protect women and children.
[Women living in repressive societies are vulnerable to abuse by law enforcement and the irrational herd.]
Thank You,
Jackson
I repeat:
to be ignorant to what happens to women, especially in Muslim countries in such situations is to be inhumane or flat out downright daft and stupid.
it's dangerous to put normal full clothes pics of them in a forum such as this one, but to post pics where they have a sock stuffed in their mouth while they're getting buttfucked or with jizzshots all over their face, even more so when wearing their veil.
I mean - just how fucking STUPID can you be?
and the pics are still up after a request by author of removal and there's a fucking poll on the matter.
playing to the mob is a time accepted recipe for failure.
playing to a mob of self proclaimed "mongers" is a catastrophe of epic proportions.
Local Expert
07-04-05, 11:19
Looking at the current poll results, I am astonished to still see an overwhelming majority of 70% who want the pics to stay online, but more or less a 100% majority of actual survey commentors who agree to remove the pics, respectively have changed their minds after having read the arguments below.
This anonymous "poll" not asking voters to justify their decission is ridiculous. I hardly find logical reasons anymore in support of leaving the pics online.
Jackson says: "This poll will be open for voting for just one week ending July 7th in order to prevent vote packing by Muslim fanatics". What I see now, is not the latter, but irresponsible voters who "just press a button" without carefully thinking about the impact their vote may, or better WILL, have on the girls.
Anonymous voting certainly is a vital part of democracy, but as Eleanor Roosevelt said in 1938 "The only danger to our democracy is that people will not carry their share of responsibility. Therefore, as a citizen of a democracy, (what we actually have here on WSG) one is compelled to understand what is meant by responsibility."
So, let us leave our cock inside our pants when voting on this topic and think first, then press the mouse button !
Once an egg is cracked and it's contents scrambled, all the kings soldiers and all the kings men cannot return the egg to its original state.
Belguels photos were released into cyberspace, and there is no way to delete them from the webs future, regardless how much any person may threaten, beg, [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) or moan.
To those contributors that denigrate the voters choosing to keep the photos on Jackson's site:
Where is the outrage directed at the Morrocan muslim society that subdues and belittles it's female population?
Are Belguels photos more egregious than Sugar Bubbas?
Or is because of the treatment the women are receiving from their repressive government?
What if a father, or husband, or boyfriend, or brother of a woman depicted in this forum finds the woman in a sexually exposed photo on the web, and then proceeds to beat the shit out of her (or, perhaps, even worse)? Do the naysayers then attack the poster? Or is it the provider of the offensive punishment that bears the greater condemnation?
I find those whom express inconsistent opinions to be less than convincing.
A person is measured and judged by their actions, not by their feelings or supposed beliefs.
Brother Belguel, I wish you quick relief from your tormenters.
Ferolga777
07-04-05, 16:50
Once an egg is cracked and it's contents scrambled, all the kings soldiers and all the kings men cannot return the egg to its original state.
I am glad to find another Lewis Carrol fan. Like Humpty Dumpty told Alice, "The question is which is to be master -- that's all. "
And that's the question, is it not? Must our enjoyment of photos of women trump any REAL concerns for their safety and the safety of contributors? Belguel --and everyone with an intent to do harm knows his name now-- is at risk. The women --and anyone with an intent to do harm knows what they look like-- are at risk.
The question...
the question is," said alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
sorry about my french. maybe i should pay more time in french and iraqi mosques praising belguel's temperate and tolerant attitudes to muslims to the believers there.
some people would prefer to have cheap shots at muslims than use common sense and get this site out of the firing line when the belgian, moroccan and ngo authorities go after belguel big time. sure his face and family and those of his victims are in the firing line. anyone want to join them there?
i wonder whaht the islamic fighters in iraq think of those photos at jerk off time.
someone mentioned sugar baba's denigration of women on the china board. besides noting that he has a lpathetically limp dick, it should be recalled that the chinese recently gave life sentences to chinese hookers and hoteliers who organized a gang bang for japanese mongers, several of whom they named and put on an interpol list. tolerance is not for everyone.
the belguel story, which also involved the statutory [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) of a minor [a la the (notorious) traveler] is tailor made for ngo fundamentalists who will use muslims and others to stir up a storm. look at all the stories they have here from looking 4 lefty to the traveler to belguel. it is make your mind up time for jackson.
one day alice came to a fork in the road and saw a cheshire cat in a tree. which road do i take? she asked. where do you want to go? was his response. i don't know, alice answered. then, said the cat, it doesn't matter.
hey, i just voted, bringing the good guys, all 63 of us up to an even 30% of this great exercise in the futility of majority rule. (please note the numbers online here at any one time and compare it to the total votes cast).
While I absolutely agree that the photos should be removed, more than that this entire incident should serve as an object lesson to all users of this site as to what can happen to women when their pictures get posted on this site with their faces visible. This is not simply an issue of safety but of basic respect -- these women provided pleasure for us, and the absolute least we can do is clearly understand the impact that posting such photos can have on their lives. There have been various statements about whether or not one should have consent to post, dismissal of the rights of the women -- if they are paid to have sex, they get what they deserve, which is a truly pathetic argument from people who pay them money for their services, indignation from mongers whose photos have been shown to the women in question, and so on, but this incident should really put all that to rest.
A dozen women (so far) sent to prison is more than enough validation, in my opinion, for ending display of photographs entirely, as there's certainly nothing to prevent something like this from happening again. Indeed, the attention this site has received in the wake of this incident makes it far more likely that other women will fall under negative and hostile scrutiny. Surely that cannot at all be what this site is about.
it's my understanding that the original request by Savaty to take the pics down was made about a YEAR ago?????
and this is being endlessly discussed NOW?
yes, Kimosabe, let's post more pornographic pics of Muslim women, especially in veils, so their lives can be destroyed, (sometimes literally) so that we can highlight out the injustice and unfairness in treatment of women in Muslim societies. I'm sure this "monger initiative" will be highly publicized and praised and rally endless masses to our side. We'll be spearheading REAL CHANGE.
you're an idiot. Like I said, put up a pic of your gf with a sock stuffed in her mouth while you're jizzing on her face and let's see what happens to her (and best yet) YOU, in our progressive society.
This guy Belguel is an idiot of epic proportions. There is a sizable Muslim Moroccan community in Belgium. Just wait until some of the fundamentalist towelheads get "offended". He'll have to hide like Salman Rushdie for a decade. All because he felt the need to publicize in the most public manner his Max Hardcore fantasies in places where they'd carry the biggest shock value. Now he'll have to lie in the bed he made for himself.
as an aside, I predict WSG will be the first of the so called travel sites to be charged with lack of compliance to U.S.C. Law 2257.
largely because of the Savaty affair, which hasn't hit the English language press yet..... but surely will.
Sanctimonious blather complete with sophomoic insults do not make a persuasive argument.
Still I feel honored to be targeted with such bile.
Taste and decorum are valued on every plane, yet this particular forum encourages sex (in many, but not all, forms) and the male traveler. There are many societies that consider public practice or discussion of sexuality taboo. Are we, as perusers of this forum, to single out all muslim societies?
Sexuality as practiced by consenting adults, whether purchased or otherwise, regardless of color, creed, or language has been practiced throughout recorded history. If sex is purchased complete with photos or video, does not the image become property of the purchaser?
Perhaps laws have been violated, and the legal bodies with jurisdiction may persue action against the perpetrators. Also, perhaps by administering this forum, Jackson may be at risk.
It's all part of this brave new world.
What a tangled world wide web we weave!
p.s. Have you any pictures of your (girlfriend, wife, mother) with a sock in her mouth in a compromising position? No? Wanna buy some?
Lighten-up dude.
Sanctimonious blather complete with sophomoic insults do not make a persuasive argument.
Still I feel honored to be targeted with such bile.
Taste and decorum are valued on every plane, yet this particular forum encourages sex (in many, but not all, forms) and the male traveler. There are many societies that consider public practice or discussion of sexuality taboo. Are we, as perusers of this forum, to single out all muslim societies?
no but you are supposed to have intelligence beyond that of an amoeba and recognize the very special and enhanced risk that women in Muslim societies are under. However, I would agree with you that posting pics of any woman in a pornographic situation on a public forum such as this one without her consent should be grounds for a lawsuit or perhaps even some jail/community time. If that's too strong for you, I'd accept some caning with a bamboo stick for being such an insensitive dickwad, or maybe allowing the girls in the pictures to bitchslap you non stop for at least 5 mins. Don't worry, like I said, I have a funny feeling this site will be a test case for USC Title 18 #2257.
Sexuality as practiced by consenting adults, whether purchased or otherwise, regardless of color, creed, or language has been practiced throughout recorded history. If sex is purchased complete with photos or video, does not the image become property of the purchaser?
That depends on what agreeement has been reached regarding the taking of the photos. Professional pornographers have special release forms and there is no illusion what's going on. In about 95% of the cases on this forum, I'd be willing to bet all the tea made in China that any photos taken are meant for the private consumption of the individual, not for public publication on a site such as this one (or any site for that matter). Finally re your last point, in this particular instance the property owner asked a year ago that the pics be taken down/off, yet apparently his "property rights" don't matter at all?
Perhaps laws have been violated, and the legal bodies with jurisdiction may persue action against the perpetrators. Also, perhaps by administering this forum, Jackson may be at risk.
It's all part of this brave new world.
you may choose to think Jackson's brave, but I'll choose to think he's more like an ostrich with his head in the sand. The sand/shit storm over this has yet to begin, and believe you me, should this story break in the English speaking press, then we'll just see how "brave/courageous" everyone finds it all.
If this site were a publicly traded company I'd be buying every single PUT I could get my hands on.
Like I said, you kids have fun. LOL
Adios catlitter.
Until we meet again.
Where are the questionable pics. Can anyone guide me to the link?
Thanks!
You just got your ass kicked in this debate.
As punishment, you're the one who ought to post said photos.
Member #2001
07-05-05, 06:47
I think Begiel is my hero.
I only wish I could go to Morroco and buttfuck these girls and post them on the internet.
Maybe I will still bost them on the internet on different sites, just to show others what a great artist he is. After all I still have them on my hard drive. I hope he continues to post girls beings fucked in the ass from other countries like Saudi, DR, or any other country.
LONG LIVE BEGIEL!!!!
I think Begiel is my hero.
I only wish I could go to Morroco and buttfuck these girls and post them on the internet.
Maybe I will still bost them on the internet on different sites, just to show others what a great artist he is. After all I still have them on my hard drive. I hope he continues to post girls beings fucked in the ass from other countries like Saudi, DR, or any other country.
LONG LIVE BEGIEL!!!!
He won't be able to post much from the jail cell where he'll be spending some time.
but
this means you could be his worthy successor!
If we're all lucky, you'll be caught with such "artistry" on your camera when exiting a country, and then you'll get a chance to experience buttfucking in a foreign jail cell.
Sexuality as practiced by consenting adults, whether purchased or otherwise, regardless of color, creed, or language has been practiced throughout recorded history. If sex is purchased complete with photos or video, does not the image become property of the purchaser?From what I have read in several Belgian and Moroccan newspapers, I seems that Belguel has more than once promised to these girls to marry them. Knowing that for many Moroccan girls, the mariage with a foreigner is the best way to be able to leave Morocco and to get a much better life abroad (at least, that is what they believe), there is no doubt that they were ready to agree to many things they would perhaps not do under normal circumstances. This approach was also clearly for Belguel a mean to minimise his costs (i.e. what he had to pay to the girls).
I leave to everybody on this board his own opinion on this way of proceding.
However, in that context, the question of the consent on the photos taken and their publication on this site (or other ones) remains.
I don't think there are many countries were the law gives the right to someone to make public nude photos without the prior and explicit consent of the subject. I doubt any of the girls taken in photo by Belguel has ever given her consent to this publication.
And even if it would be the case, I am not even sure that such a consent would be valid from a mere juridical point of view. Indeed, Morocco - and, by the way, the other countries were Belguel took his picture - is still an underdevelopped country. I am not sure that all the girls taken in photo...
(i) know the existence of the web, or
(ii) if they know, are really in position to evaluate its audience and impact and
(iii) really realise what the consequence might be of having their pictures published on a website.
In that way, one could easily argue that they didn't really know to what they have given their consent, which should normally make their consent void, because there was a dupery.
Beside all the arguments that have already been displayed here, this one should as such be sufficient for removing all pictures taken by Belguel, not only on the Moroccan part of the site, but also on the other threads.
Because there is no doubt in my view that when this story will be known outside of the Belgian/Moroccan circle (or out of the French speaking area), the authorities of other countries could investigate whether Belguel has travelled on their territory. And since no country wants to be known as a destination for sex travels...
And when I read that others, on this site, are ready to spread Belguels photos all over the Net, without having any right on them, I have really doubts about their mental health.
BTW, the thread about the Moroccan girls photos that was to be found on the Banker's site has been removed.
2001: i am glad you have enjoyed the forum so far, especially the photos, some of my own included. please read the rest of my post and then fuck off.
1. you have never posted a photo yourself. nor have you posted one field report from kiev, colombia or chicago.
2. read some of your posts below: when the traveler, another notorious abuser, said that someone was showing his posted photos to the women/whatever he fucked, you issued a warning that someone else was doing it on the dr board. although that will never happen to you as you do not post photos (do you jerk off to them by the way?), yet you applaud, from a safe distance, your hero belguel.
3. you also like to go bareback. why no photos of you barebacking skanks?
4. post with no picture in the quito section, complaining about mongers sharing information instead of jack off photos.
5. post on kiev thread, saying you know where cheap piussy is but will not say where. (why not post a j/o photo?)
6. rate of exchange query on madagascar board. have you cheap, secret pussy there too?:) any butt fucking, jerk off photos? or does madagascar's rate of exchange give you a hard on?
7. dumbass post, seemingly condoning [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) as non p4p. no photos.
8. recommending some internet babe you don't know for a [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) party for looking 4 lefty and his fictional friends.
9. pakistan post (no photo): complaining about guys reusing photos, including ones you have had on your hard dick for years. good j/o material?
10. post on proposed trip to sd but you never subsequently posted information on your trip.
11. nz thread: "i suggest that no one should complain about harry unless you post pictures here yourself and i see that those that criticiize are not posting pictures." and we see you do not post photos either, or even bother getting a name. how about using jerk as a name?
12. "nasty picture of herpes. why did you post this?" (would you prefer domino just posted other photos for you and other barebackers to jerk off to in the future? you liked the nong khai and pattaya ones. i enjoyed fucking them)
13. philippine board, photo section: asking for more hard core photos (but giving none).
14. complaints section: declaring interpol have no place on this board. but interpol investigate international crime and belguel fits into their brief (if not your briefs).
...........................
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=289082&postcount=327
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=303036&postcount=2409
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=287936&postcount=78
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=286675&postcount=761
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=285222&postcount=82
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=283104&postcount=1915
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=282662&postcount=1903
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=280686&postcount=61
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=277119&postcount=913
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=270551&postcount=326
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=259072&postcount=1858
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=255601&postcount=302
http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=252577&postcount=381
If we're all lucky, you'll [2001] be caught with such "artistry" on your camera when exiting a country, and then you'll get a chance to experience buttfucking in a foreign jail cell.
Catire: if you care to read my post below, you will see he will never be caught as he does not monger. Over 100 posts, most of them in photo sections, and not a single photo or field report.
He bears out the contention that Jackson must take the photo sections in hand, as it were. Voyeurs like 2001, who have never posted worthwhile information or a single photo, should not be dictating policy. When the shit hits the fan, they will be where they always are, safely tucked up in their homes. With friends like 2001, Belguel does not need many more enemies.
"Winning" this juvenile poll will be a great boost to him and will probably end the campaigns of the world's "Muslim fanatics".
Member #2001
07-05-05, 20:37
I feel so privliged to know that I have been officlally flamed my you. As you are well aware of there is nothing that makes a mongers day then being flamed by you.
Not to worry though. I will not get into anothor flame war with you as you so elequlently like to do with other members of the board. (I prefer to give and recieve information as I see fit and not cludder up the board an masterbation agrument. with your nonsence ramplings) Besides you have been truely been revieled several times and you continue to do so over and over again.
best of luck and on to the next guy that you want to antagonize
while I'd like to think that the silent majority in this matter would agree that that the pictures were obtained under fraudulent means and what's worse, posting them in such a manner on an extremely open and public Internet site is a complete breach of any trust/understanding one might have had with the girl, maybe I'm just overly optimistic.
I'm afraid the vocal minority is the one that drives the dicussions and according to them?
it doesn't matter! I paid and she's just a W.H.O.R.E. right?? and I want to post off jerkoff material to my monger 'brothers' so they can salute me!
not to even mention the very special problem faced by a Muslim girl in their fucked up societies. Pictures which are the biggest "taboo" imaginable, for e.g. jizzing on the face of a veiled girl. This is where someone's complete cultural ignorance comes into play and most of the vocal clowns here are cultural ignoramuses (plus they like to whack off to such pics)
(this actually holds true for girls in any country, but clearly special attention should be paid to Muslim ones, or countries in the midst of a govt crackdown, like Cuba, for e.g.)
not to even mention that in Savaty's case, the pictures aren't even of "W.H.O.R.E.S." - which ruins the typical clown's argument that since he paid the ho for sex and he took pictures, he also paid for the pictures, and this means he can do anything he wants with them.
These were pictures of so called "normal girls", as admitted by Savaty. He mentioned in his removal request that this was one of the major reasons he wanted them removed as the shit was hitting the fan (he should have thought about possible consequences before, but we're past that point now)
Then we get the moral equivalency rambings of so callled kimosabe, who's new handle should be kimonosabenada.
Like I said... this has reached absurd theatrical heights of the macabre.
anyone know where I can buy some puts on this "stock" of vocal clowns who will take the site and its seemingly clueless administrator down with them?
Catire: Don't worry too much about this poll. There are 133,585 members of this site with combined postings of 353,400 as and from today. Many, if not most members just want to jerk off to the photos: membership rates actually shot up when membership was required for photo viewing. Also, when there were problems veiwing photos, Jackson got a bunch of messages complaining about it. Discussion threads are generally unsubscribed to: maybe philosophers should probably follow the examples of the non voting Muslim fanatic majority and monger more. Mongering is, in any event, probably a selfish act for most people, nihilists like me and caring philanthropists like Belguel excepted. A lot of the votes cast might be just to see what will Jackson do when the vote goes the more dangerous but infinitely more interesting yes way. The final call on this is up to Jackson: it is his ass which will be first in the line of fire when the wires get hold of this tailor made story and blow it up into something really big.
FWIW, my opinion on this big stink is as follows:
1. Jackson fails to realize the gravity of situation in terms of both possible legal complications and the risk of being targeted by defenders of the reputation of Islam (AKA violent fanatics);
2. More attention in the press equals bad news for websites like WSG, for lower profile adult travel websites, and for the hobby in general.
3. The pictures, while novel, do NOT justify the risk to this site, to Jackson or to mongering.
4. Refusing to honor the request of the contributor to delete HIS fotos will have a chilling effect on foto contributions. Most members will think twice before posting ANY fotos on this site knowing they have granted irrevocable right of use to WSG regardless oif any change in circumstances. This will DEPLETE the archives, not enhance them.
5. Tropi is the smartest, most connected, member of any monger board I have ever participated in (which is many). People should listen to him.
6. 2001 lacks the maturity, track record as a contributor and common sense to particuipate in this discussion. His senior membership should be converted to "juevenile membership". By the way, I figured out that his handle number is merely the year in which he turned 10 years of age.
7. Domino is a smart guy with lots of free time. His indictment of 2001 as a leech who contributes nothing of value was quite impressively researched and footnoted. If the DA in Michael Jackson's case had been half as competent, the gloved one would already be in his second tube of KY.
this discussion is simply amazing me. when these photos turned up at another site i used to be a member of (i guess the cuba fans remember me) i issued a strong warning against publishing any recognizable photos of porn quality involving women in muslim countries. it's clearly irresponsable.
in the last years i have been obliged to travel to many muslim countries, including iraq, iran, syria and others. i also know morocco very well. as a frequent traveler to morocco, belguel must have been fully aware of what he was doing. young women exposed like this face public shame, prosecution, honor killings or may suicide themselves. this is no fantasy, that's real.
some may have been pros, some were regular girls. it doesn't matter. their photos were published on the web without their consent, in humiliating poses, with cum or [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) on their faces. a muslim girl exposed like that has just lost any future she might have had. and this is a small world. i was absolutely sure back then that this would cause huge problems.
i have absolutely no sympathies for the belgian guy who is exposed now in the francophone press. it simply amazes me that there could be a "poll" whether those pics should still be available online, on a free site.
the girls were betrayed, and they pay a heavy price for it. it seems to me a simple act of decency not to expose them further. don't hide behind the fact that there is a cd out there. you ignored the belgian's plea to take down the photos and i wonder about the attitude you show when one of your members is in danger of spending years in jail for some stupid photos you refuse to take down.
but that you won't consider the plight of those girls is beyond any understanding. whether it makes much of a difference now is completely irrelevant. i found them in 3 minutes. any moroccan will find them in 3 minutes.
i read up on the girls in the francophone press. "only" some girls have gone to jail, about 70 are still researched by police and have obviously gone into hiding.
when will you take them down? how many suicides, how many honor killings, how many years in a filthy jail does it take? yes blame morocco for being so backward. is that the girls' fault?
the belgian guy did hide his face. no such privileges for his victims?
have you no shame, at long last?
i thought i would take a minute out of my life and repost tropi's post without comment.
Doctor_Skank
07-06-05, 14:24
Regular posters all recognize that most members of WSG couldnt care less about actual information (and the vast majority of viewers/pirates dont have any info to offer anyway) but are only interested in PORN. Compare the number of hits on the photo galleries with those on the actual information threads.
WSG was not created to be a porn site, but rather an information forum for sex travellers/mongers/tourists/enthusiasts.
At its best, WSG is a community. An exchange platform for people with similar hobbies and interests. WSG has been a great resource for me in my travels (thanks Jackson), and not only from the standpoint of sex. There is a ton of great info on WSG that would take years to collect individually. Unfortunately since the picture posting/viewing feature was added it devolved into a porn site for many.... and became a community where most "viewing" members dont pay taxes, i.e. provide pics and info.
I like the pictures like anybody else, but certainly could live without ANY pictures on this forum if that would get rid of the idiots and bring WSG back to being primarily an information exchange.
Belguel should have known better? No, we all should have known better.
IMHO: I think its better to remove the pictures because of the very high political preasure that it is creating against traveling Single-Male-Tourists in Agadir and Morroco in general. I currently would not go to Agadir knowing that Morrocans would be watching me as a western European Tourist traveling alone. This creates a very bad situation. The pictures that Belgel made are absolutey not worth that! Actually, while kind-of amusing, I do not think the pictures have any value in any sense, artistic erotic or otherwise, (my opinion), the girls are not pretty and putting themselvs at an enormous risk with that kind of publicity.
Furthermore it creates political preasures for Legislation against WSG type Websites, and again it is just simply not worth that. There are a lot of politicians out there looking for excuses to create new laws to regulate and censor the Internet, lets not help them. Some descretion is needed, and some political common sense.
Regards,
4102
Local Expert
07-06-05, 14:50
Right ! Well said !
And therefore I want to repeat what I have always said:
1) Pictures should ONLY be visible to Senior Members !
2) All current Senior Members' posts should be reviewed according to the "Senior Membership Rules" and hence not properly contributing guys (in other words: parasites) like "Member 2001" or many other I know of (CGBG Conn., etc.) should be downgraded to "Regular Members".
Well, that was my idea of it when I started posting in the late 90s, at WSA. When this site started to publish photos, I issued some warnings as well concerning Cuban girls. This was before the crackdowns happened. Cuba was a "paradise"... it no longer is.
People replied, no worries, Cubans don't have acces to the web, which was true at that time. Well, they do have now, especially the "wrong" people. Girls have been sent to jail. The picture of a nude Cuban girl would cost this girl 2 years at least in a "reeducation camp".
Yet, Muslim countries have a different culture. Yes, fun can be had, but with discretion. It was the lack of discretion that pretty much killed Cuba as a destination. Belguel's lack of discretion has made Agadir a ghost town, as Moroccan papers report. So what was gained?
I stand by my earlier posting. And I do know what I am talking about. I know about the dangers the owner of this site is facing and I gave him a fair warning. Whatever he decides he should know by now what kind of risks he faces.
When I read up on the Morocco thread, I came across Belguel's email with the plea to take down the photos. If I understand it right this was a private email which the owner decided to publish. You should know that it was this publication that got the ball rolling as Belguel practically indicted himself by confessing what he had done. Instead of deleting postings that incriminate the poster and do incredible harm to girls that never knew that they were exposed here, the owner, by his stubbornness, did actually contribute to the plight of everyone involved.
He now faces the following risk:
1) Action by radical Muslims (please remember what happened to the Dutch filmmaker who "offended Islam").
2) Action by Homeland Security. This is no joke. They are trying to apply the Patriot Act to "[CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908)" and if they want to play hardball, this is a good site as any to try. I see a diplomatic row between Morocco and the US about this coming up and hell, I do know about those.
3) This site could be shut down by applying § 2257. Record keeping requirements. While this law could be applied to most porn sites, It will only be if a site REALLY causes problems. WSG could be a model case.
4) Private lawsuits of the Moroccan girls. Belgium has already encouraged the girls to sue Belguel, and the next step is WSG, that can't pretend ignorance anymore.
All this can and will probably lead to the shutdown of WSG (unless you host that site in Anguilla and live in some offshore location). So consider that.
How would you react if a girl posted pictures of YOU, in degrading poses? How long would these pictures remain online?
Have the decency to do the right thing.
Dollar Bill
07-06-05, 16:27
Jackson,
It is not our asses on the line. Unforturnately, it is possibly just yours. You need to make the call on this and not listen to those that just want to see naked pics.
All of the guys voting to keep the pictures are NOT thinking of your possible future troubles with the LAW or the Muslims.
Please - MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION ON THIS. Delete them and keep yourself free from trouble.
I, for one, support you! I am sure that almost all Senior Members don't want anything bad to happen to you or WSG.
Please think about it!
Thanks and good luck!
$Bill
Well said Doctor Skank, couldn't agree more. Tropi, I'm afraid you are right in everything you said too.
My first reaction about the Belguel case was very emotional. Yes, I care a lot for these girls, as for all the girls I have met during my hobbying. I've always treated the girls not only with the respect they desearve, but as if they were my girl friends. And most of the time, when you are sincere (and when you know how to avoid the Barracudas, thanks to WSG), the girls open up their heart too (not only their legs), offering the best GFE imaginable. Those girls are not only "working girls", they are human beings, and if you try to discover who they are really, you may discover sometimes very interesting persons. Of course, I'm not naive, I would never recommend anybody starting a serious relationship with a "working girl". But I felt so many times in love (even if it is for a very short time), I remember so many magical moments, I've experienced sex with the most gorgeous looking girls coming from all over the world, making all my sexual dreams come true, it is as I have had several lifes in one.
Most guys, including those frustated voyeurs that are WSG member only to look at the pics, didn't have as much young and beautifull girls in their entire life as I've had in one single FKK tour.
In the name of all the girls that gave me so much happyness, I ask to remove the Belguel pictures. This is the least I can do for them.
My second reaction is about the future of this board. Thank you Mr Jackson for having created world's best travel sex forum. Thank you also fellow members for all the info that allowed me to live several lifes in one, and this without putting my family in danger. I'm so gratefull for that, that I try to be the best contributor I can, sharing all the info I have.
When I saw the first results of the poll, which will probably not change for tomorrow's last day, I was very disappointed. I didn't feel myself anymore being part of the community. Everybody can have different opinion, but this is against my strong beliefs. Everything regarding sex can be acceptable, as long it is between adults with their consent. I can not accept that in the name of a so called freedom of small entertainment for some, we destroy the life of others. Security matters go first, all people facing responsability in their normal life know this. I was seriously thinking of writing my very last goodby report (the number 100 report!). At the beginning, I was together with Local Expert the only Senior Member asking to remove the pictures. The other were newbies, and even if they had very interesting opinions, one could have some doubts if they were real hobbyists. I'm feeling now a bit more confident, nearly all the reports, including those of famous Senior Members agree to remove the pics.
I start to believe also that the 70% are not real contributing members, but just voyeur members. As for proof, 350 000 reports, with an average of 100 reports for an active member (some go up to 5000!), this makes about 3 500 active members. But there are in fact 130 000! I'm not against those who prefer only reading the forum. But I'm afraid that a lot are not even hobbyists, just frustrated voyeurs trying to keep the pics available, which may explain the results of the poll. Mr Jackson, in order to clear up a major concern, is it technically possible to analyse the results of the poll by separing the Senior and Regular/viewer members or by number of reports?
Mr Jackson, you have made previously lot of efforts trying to educate mongerers, especially against minor abuse. You are a godfather for most of us, and your decision will have major impacts, not only for the Belguel victims (for them it will unfortunately be too late), but for the future of this board and for general behaviour of hundred thousands of mongerers. As a responsable community, we should all agree about the fact that even if we all love sex, as men we have to protect women and children.
Let's keep this board clean from all the perverts and anti sex perverts. There are thousands of porno sites showing porn pics, we don't need them really on our board. But nowhere can be found as much usefull info as on the WSG. This is unique, and we can not take the risk to mess it up only for the pics. They are not worth it.
My opinion is to remove all the pics of this board, not only Belguel's. I PMed Belguel, asking him to react on the board. I'm quite sure he will agree also about this now. There is no answer, I'm afraid he's hidden and in big trouble. By the way, I can't believe it, his name has changed in...this will be of no help.
I can agree with a restriction, like pics available only for Senior Members or pics only if the girls are not identifiable. I will even agree if this must become a paying site, in order to make the necessary access restriction. But if we keep exposing worldwide pics of identifiable naked girls without their consent, sorry to say, it will be my last report. I don't want to put more pressure on your decision Mr Jackson, I believe it will be difficult enough to face such a responsability, it's just that I won't feel myself anymore being part of the WSG community.
Let's the Belguel case be a lesson for us.
any fucking bid...
or buy some puts..on this enterpise!!!!!
and you're not helping by blatantly re-stating all the points I've already hidden in my previous posts!
can't a brother try to make some dough??
1. Tropi's latest post is scary.
2. Jackson has removed pictures before when requested to: there was some dude whose wife or whatever accessed his account, read of his exploits and was not amused.
3. Jackson is caught up in being Mr Nice Guy. He is on record as saying he is not really into photos himself (even though he did post some nice and classy ones). However, he wants to provide this unfocused service to the voyeurs of the world. By doing so, discretion, the better part of valour, must be lost.
4. Although the Belguel issue is a portend of things to come (read Tropi's accurately scary post), the photos are a bigger issue needing attention.
5. There is no question that the photos have led to a major deterioration of information to noise.
6. On the plus side, this thread has shown that there are intelligent posters out there.
7. Jackson is one of them. He should give some serious thought to where he wants this site to go. If he wants quality of posts and information, the photos have to go. Think of it as TV versus radio.
8. Restricting viewing porno pics to senior members wil not solve the problem; it will merely lead to more people pushing for senior member status or Pming senior members to forward them pics for their Maturbation 101 classes.
9. Better to be safe than sorry Jackson. Listen to Dr Laura and do the right thing;)
10. The photos have been a major logistical pain, with the voyeurs writing in in droves whenever access was denied. Now they will be a bigger pain when the NGOs etc get Homeland Security on to the case. Hye, but as long as the cruisers have them saved on their HDs why should be care, right Belguel?
Tropi, btw is of course 100% correct with everything he says.
but my take on Jackson's position is that he genuinely feels he's defending something that should be defended.
For e.g.
remember his line about "does this mean we shouldn't allow pic from any Muslim destination", etc I can find his exact wording, but I don't feel like wasting my time.
I think he thinks he's taking a righteous stand against intolerance of sex tourism and prostitution discussions, and supporting this imaginary concept of "monger rights", which even spills over to clearly pornographic and culturally offensive pictures (which of course don't carry any permission to be posted anywhere, much less, or ESPECIALLY so - "here".)
as a businessman, he's also catering to his viewing customer base.. aka "the masses"-a historically proven recipe for failure in the long term.
This would be a truly notable and courageous stand.. if you had the intelligence and perception of an amoeba and didn't see the world around you for what it is, and your position in it, as precarious as it is, for what it is.
That's why I prefer the ostrich with head in sand theory.
or the three monkey see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil concept.
which is amusing, until it's too late
Which it might already be, I dunno, for his own personal sake I hope not. I just can't believe this is an ongoing matter from a year back. Morocco hushed up the matter back then, but now, once three of the girls came out and news broke out in the Franco press and Savaty was revealed... now no way will it be hushed up and this site is right there in the thick and middle of all of it. Quotes from "Belguel" and various responses from others to various pics are now widely copied, quoted and translated on francophone forums. If you have any basic Latin language recognition skills, you'll quickly see for yourself if you google it and click on some forums/links.
This site is completely in the midst of the shitstorm. It cannot hide.
That's why I'm still interested in buying puts on the enterprise, especially given the ongoing "judgment" (I use that word with the utmost sarcasm) of its administrator.
if there is a SINGLE lawyer in the Justice Dept that has gotten whiff of this story, I bet all in tea in China he's knocking on his boss's door every single morning PLEADING for permission to "go after these guys".
It's a no lose proposition. Lots of publicity. No downside, all upside. He'll/she'll be a bigger hero to the public than anyone putting away Milken, Martha Stewart, ENRON, you name it.
and the case is incredibly easy to win, pick your poison/way to nuke it all.
making this a lot easier is the incredibly explicit nature of most of Savaty's shots. Anyone who will know "obscenity" when they see it, will see it when they see most of those shots.
Maybe it's a good thing I'm not a lawyer in the Justice Dept. This would be my number one way for fame and career advancement. I'd be all over it.
Local Expert
07-07-05, 07:02
Although I agree with nearly everything you said in your posts, allow me to underline "my" issue of limiting photos to senior members:
For me, photos on this board are just the chocolate layer ontop of an anyway delicious cake. WSG was already running very well before pics could have been up-/downloaded. The MAIN point of this board is the provision of "real time" information where to get laid for which price.
Now, after having studied the Buenos Aires section of this board and the related escort websites from 2003 onwards, I thought: " Wow, what a place ! Must be better than Rio and Bangkok together. Where is the travel next agency, gotta buy a ticket and screw all these models form Area-Vip and EscortsArgentina for 40 USD/h". After Jackson enabled photo sections, and I saw the REAL, not paintbrushed pictures of these ladies, I pretty quickly cooled down. So, in brief: The photo section saved me about 5.000 USD :-)
As an information board, the WSG is open to everybody. Regular members and outsiders can go and read every report they want to, from New York to Timbuktu. Senior Members on the other hand, are the ones that make this board valuable through posting the neccessary detailed info. Now, the latter have invested time and effort into this project, they shall be rewarded in a distinctive way, not only with the title "senior" but also with the privilege to view pictures. If I were a regular member who had just discovered WSG, I would give great effort to gather the promotion to Senior Member status and hence would enrichen this site with more detailed reports.
If anybody can view the pics, WSG attracts also only "anybody". "Anybody" in means of "perverts, wankers, voyeurs and trouble makers". We certainly do not need these "parasites" !
I am very sure, that a REAL (according to Jackson's definition) senior member won't play fast and loose with his privilege, or can you imagine a guy having posted 30 and more detailed info messages will save pics onto a CD and sell them in Agadir or anywhere else on the street for 2 USD a piece ?
On top of that and to put your argument into perspective: "If a guy with 2 posts, both like "where can I get laid in xyz" sends you a pm and asks you to email him your last 10 pics, would you waste your time in even answering his pm ? In the Turkey section, we have established a non-written rule as handing out phone numbers and more detailed info on girls ONLY to senior members. This works pretty well.
So, finally: Seniors contibute the most, they get rewarded. Regulars can already read all info available anyway and are hence actuated to post INFORMATION and contribute to this board. I believe with such a rule, we can WSG better and safer !
i would like to frame this issue differently, although all the statements made by tropi and others certainly are dead on.
jackson, you have put in place rules for this board which censor specific words "that are commonly used to denigrate women." you have also both banned and segregated users (see the samus arum in thailand) for repeatedly posting misogynistic statements. is there any doubt whatsoever, especially in light of the unfolding of the specifics of belguel's story, that the photographs in question denigrate and harm the women involved? why is there a different standard for photos, which clearly are about actions, than for words, which are about sentiments or thoughts? shouldn't photos bear an even higher burden?
further, in your photo guidelines you tell people not to submit photographs that are "pornographic, as in showing sexual intercourse" as you don't want to deal with displaying pornography and the age-verification issues that brings up. again, many of these photos directly violate that, and i'd say the others do at least in spirit, with their fetishistic approach.
you said in the past that concerns that posting such photographs could be "putting these women in danger for their lives" seemed to you overblown, and questioned the motivations of those who wished to see them removed. but a score of women in jail and dozens of others being sought by authorities as a direct result of the display of these photos simply cannot be seen as anything but real and actual, not theoretical, harm. surely that cannot be what this site is about -- i can (and have) debated the morality of prostitution ad nauseum, but it's impossible to see any moral justification for allowing harm to come to women simply because people on this site wish to view photos of them.
i am not a monger trying to protect a specific geographical hunting ground, nor am i a religious fanatic who has that kind of agenda. i am someone who has concerns about being associated with a site that promotes practices that negatively impact the very women about which it seeks to share information. by contributing within such a context i am implicitly saying that i'm ok with the idea that my contributions can lead to such harm.
finally, i cannot see how allowing these photographs to remain can at all be consistent with the statement you made in your editorial regarding sex with minors -- "as men, it is our responsibility to protect women and children."
i urge you to ignore the statistical result of this poll and instead take note of the voices discussing the issue, which for the most part have been clear and cogent. after all, as you yourself very cogently said, "as educated, intelligent, civilized men, we are expected by our peers to operate on a higher moral plain." there is no harm in removing these photos other than disappointing some users, but the decision to leave them up certainly doesn't allow wsg any room at all to claim that higher moral arena.
Hello Jackson,
Additional to the Reply that I already posted I have a few more conceptual comments about this Website.
I remember the early Days of WSG, I think this was back in 96-97. If my memory is correct, it was hosted back then on paranoia.com. In those Days it was a no frills text only Website. I liked it, because it provided a lot of good and essential information. I still llike it, for the textual travel information.
I am sure you know Wikipedia, it is self editing and self policing award winning information repository, and it works really well. Consider that concept. The result would be very high quality Information, with an occasional Photo adhering to strict guidelines. The additional work that it would take could be done by the community, Senior members could do the editing and policing.
If you just want to run a 4th rate porn site that is up to you. I don't think the Photos have much value, all they do is eat up your bandwith.
An occasional really well done Photo, which does not have to be pornographic, would probably make more waves than all the other questionable stuff.
Regards,
4102
GoodEnough
07-07-05, 13:08
Having expressed my strong opinion that the pictures should be removed, I thought I had written my last word on this subject. However, the articulate, reasoned arguments made by the last few posters--while reinforcing my belief that the pictures must go--has also sparked the thought that it's time to distinguish between Senior members and others in terms of responsibilities and priveleges. I wonder, for example, if the poll had been limited to Senior members, if the results would have been different. I suspect so. Like many others out there, I suspect that most Senior members, who have invested time and energy to bring information to this site, do not browse this board for the sake of sexual titillation, but for real information. I contrast this to those who have few experiences, make few substantive contributions, and live their lives somewhat vicariously through the experiences of others.
Jackson has implied strongly, as have the rest of you, that we are not here to cause harm to anyone, least of all young women who have no legal recourse and cannot defend themselves. We cannot be associated with any actions that knowlingly inflct such harm, and now that we know that continued posting of these pictures is a clear and present danger to some women, we must remove them. The likelihood of doing harm should, I think, be the most important criterion in deciding whether to allow such postings.
If I could vote again to remove them, I would do so.
GE
Belguel no longer "exists".
Belguel is now "Achmed"!
fucking brilliant!!!
I bet that will fool them!! a year later with the genie long gone out of the bottle!
hahahahahahahahahahaahhahahaahahahahahhaahahahahahaha
show me a bid any bid...... puhleeaaaze!!!
Neyzen Tevfik
07-07-05, 22:11
This brings another question to our minds :
Sorry to think about this; but...
If it is not any decent monger brother who would think about making some dough out of the pictures.
Who can it be ?
Who else owns all of these pictures ?
Wow ! Can this be true ? Why not ?
Has this site earned any money till now?
And how in the world do you think is it up and running? Will it last for ever?
Have any of us contributed anything other than "BLA BLA" or "CLICK"s to this site, that realy can buy or pay for the bandwith, protection, servers, etc. ?
Gotta give some serious thought to that, boys...
I say : This site ought to become a PAY SITE.
Not only a pay site that any dick who has the money can become a member...
It must have strict rules of a gentlemen's club.
Jackson can work out the details...
any fucking bid...
or buy some puts..on this enterpise!!!!!
and you're not helping by blatantly re-stating all the points I've already hidden in my previous posts!
can't a brother try to make some dough??
though it already exists and has been implemented elsewhere! :)
Greetings,
Although the poll is running at approximately 2 to 1 to keep the photos, after considering the opinions of the Forum's Senior Members, I have decided to remove the photos.
I appreciate everyone's comments.
Jackson
Chocho Negro
07-08-05, 07:53
... Senior members, who have invested time and energy to bring information to this site, ...There has been in this thread several comments about Senior Members vs. Regular Members. Although I agree with some of these comments in some cases, others are definitely exagerations, but OK, that's a minor problem, ...
However, after reading the Senior Membership Criteria
http://www.*************.info/seniormembercriteria.html
Really I do not understand how there is now a new Senior Member (Davi1) with 1 tiny post (no info, just a comment) in the Poland Photo Gallery thread, ...
http://www.*************.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1604
Look for yourself.
Carpe diem.
CN.
MichaelTheOne
07-08-05, 13:10
Keep the pics on.
Dollar Bill
07-08-05, 15:55
Jackson -
Thanks! I know that many of us feel that you made the right decision. Not only for the girls, but also for WSG.
Saludos,
$Bill
Local Expert
07-08-05, 16:12
Thank you Jackson
IMHO the pics should have been removed a year ago (when the author first requested it). That being said, I give Jackson credit for admitting his mistake and LISTENING toi the consensus. If only the head of the US government could be so enlightened (but he NEVER makes mistakes-GAG ME!).
I say it on the private sites, but I will say it here too: Tropi for President in 2008! Sorry Trop, I know you couldn't afford the pay cut LOL!
Hi Surfer,
I appreciate yoru comments, but for the record, I did not make a mistake here. Remember: It wasn't me that traveled to a sexually repressive country, took photos of my sexual activities and then post them on a public forum.
As educated, intelligent members of this forum, you are responsible for what you post, not me.
BTW, Liberating 36 million people from a repressive, murderous dictator and then helping them create a democracy is not "a mistake"
Thanks,
Jackson
I don't know how to best tell you this, but before you go on patting each other on the back about saving the world. Did any of you check the cameroon forum?
I don't mean to be nittpicky, but considering that, I do not know anymore what this whole Poll and subsequest discussion was actually about.
Hi #4102,
Damn you guys are tough.
The night the poll ended, I stayed up intil dawn identifying and removing all of Beguel's photos and most of his reports from the Morocco section, and I changed his user name just as a temporary additional measure until I could review his remaining reports.
Of course, after a long night doing all this work, I get the pleasure of reading Catire's report making a mockery of my efforts, followed by this post.
Today I'm in the middle of a 24 hour series of flights, but tomorrow I will finish the job.
In the mean time, I would appreciate it if everyone would just give me a break!
Thanks,
Jackson
I skimmed it and saw no explicit pictures of Muslims nor any great controversy. I DID, however, learn that Cameroon sounds DAMN GOOD as a mongering destination (especially from posts by Frank Africa). Bummer there aint no surf!
I can only applaud - wise decision.
Now I would like to invite anyone who wants to post photos of girls to think about the following.
1) Could the photos cause you problems?
2) Could the photos cause the girls problems?
3) Could the photos cause Jackson problems?
4) Could the photos cause the destination problems?
Agadir, as you may or may not know, is dead because of the scandal. Without photos that wouldn't have happened.
Think about it.
Ferolga777
07-09-05, 00:25
Yes. Kudos!!!
Jackson
You got a crappy job: Administrator of a site that caters to horny men.LOL
You do a great job, most of the time.
Sometimes your best judgment fails you. Your life experiences are not wide and deep enough to understand that not every country is the same and that repressive regimes are called that for a very good reason.
NOW, you hopefully realize that you made a mistake when you refused to delete the photos when that Belgian dude asked you to. But, today you are learning that there were then real risks to the man that begged you to remove those photos and to the women that would have begged you to do so if they had access to this site.
But, you are learning, we all are learning. Hopefully, you will never have to learn the hard way the power and wide discretion that law enforcement has to pick and choose its fights.
Kudos again and best of luck.
Ferolga
Jackson
24 hours adds to a lot of flight time. However, you must know by now that bitching against you will always far outnumber both pats on your back and actual help.
As regards removing Belguel's photos: might I just suggest zapping all his posts as that is the easiest for you? So, what will you lose? The thread will not be quite continuous or coherent but so what? You have done similar actions in the past. References have been posted to the French stories and I am sure English ones will follow. Just zap all his posts and be done with it.
I think your rationale in all this should be: what suits Jackson both in terms of time and objectives? One poster mentoned about paying taxes - contributing photos, words and general bs. The only guy who really contributes is you. So do what is easiest for you. And make sure your butt is always legally covered.
The Belguel controversy is not all wasted effort. It raises a number of logistical questions as to how you intend to manage the sheer volume of work associated with running this site.
Again, I suggest you get your BA dudes to help you. Start your Tuesday fuck fests a little earlier, then give Dickhead, Cpt Dave etc jobs to do in cleaning up various threads: just deleting all the crap, to improve the information to noise ratio. As it is your ball you don't have to give explanations, ever, about anything. Maybe start a general moan in page so you guys an have a laugh on Tuesdays too.
If the board continues to run as it is, with a large number of voyeurs, a few hundred active posters and a tiny team running the show, more bottlenecks will have to arise.
This site is almost unique in the www world. But there is always room for improvement. Just make sure the improvement suits you, the big taxpayer.
Of course, after a long night doing all this work, I get the pleasure of reading Catire's report making a mockery of my efforts,
Jackson
to help right a sinking ship by the virtue of how one's stock is valued in the marketplace. It awakens boards which then put their CEO's on notice or simply replace them.
Just think of me as that 'helpful' hedge fund.
sincerely
Catire
Catire: Metaphors, your one of the market place included, should be kept short for maximum impact. Your metaphor is out of place here as there is only one shareholder, it is a privately owned company and the shareholder/CEO is not responsible to anyone, LE perhaps excepted.
Jackson is easily the most interesting guy on this entire site. He breaks his balls, for his own reasons, making this the best site of its kind in the world. He wastes thousands of dolllas (in his own words but I reckon it must be tens of thousands) allowing photos etc to be put up at his expense from places he will never visit because of time constrictions. Anytime his site runs into logistical problems, he gets deluged by "hey asshole wtf, I can't see the fucking pictures, you lazy prick" pms ordering him to jump to.
In this thread, he probably got an unprecedented amount of criticism and he took a brave decision by stepping back after issuing a short statement. As it is his ball, he can do whatever he likes and, as he said in response to the Thai choir boys when he upgrsded me to Senior status, he does not have to explain his every minor move to the wankers of the world.
There are bigger issues besides Belguel and his many faces. These revolve around the profile and direction JACKSON wants the forum to take and the role the photos should take in that. Give Jackson room to breathe.
but as dictatorial as Jackson's role can be, he, alongside with any other person who runs any kind of website, where content is provided by someone else, is essentially beholden to his content provider(s).
the power always belongs to the "rain-makers", which in the case of this forum/business would be your Senior Members.
no content= no forum= no "Jackson"
What I now want to know is who is "Raoul"?
is he the Brother of "Achmed"?
You've made your point ages ago and got your wishes, it's time to back off now, there is no marketplace here, to a large extend we are free loaders being taken care of by the Government (Jackson), after all we are not taxpayers to this company/country. The services being offered here are for free. It's acceptable to offer constructive criticism, disrespect crosses the line conflicts with the original point of your post.
Jackson's tolerance level for taking crap is way off the charts, just find any other place on or offline where you can slam the owner/CEO and get away with it. On many other sites or institution, censorship by management would have ruled the land.
to help right a sinking ship by the virtue of how one's stock is valued in the marketplace. It awakens boards which then put their CEO's on notice or simply replace them.
Just think of me as that 'helpful' hedge fund.
sincerely
Catire
You've made your point ages ago and got your wishes, it's time to back off now, there is no marketplace here, to a large extend we are free loaders being taken care of by the Government (Jackson), after all we are not taxpayers to this company/country. The services being offered here are for free. It's acceptable to offer constructive criticism, disrespect crosses the line conflicts with the original point of your post.
Jackson's tolerance level for taking crap is way off the charts, just find any other place on or offline where you can slam the owner/CEO and get away with it. On many other sites or institution, censorship by management would have ruled the land.
last time I checked Jackson wasn't "taking care of me" and I've provided my share of "content" which basically means "I'm taking care of Jackson".
As to what Jackson "gets", it kind of comes with the territory.
that said, yes I think you're right that I've made my point and it's time to shut up.
though I still want to know if Raoul is Achmed's brother.... or what?
Dear Jackson,
great to see that the photos have been removed regardless of the outcome of the vote. Surely the vote was an interesting experiment to see what a substantial amount of viewers want.
Better so it was also clear what the contributers of this forum want, which was clearly shown in the overwhelming support to have the photos removed.
The forum lives from quality contributions where the photos of that particular degrading nature only create the attraction of the nonqualified member.
many thanks again
Neyzen Tevfik
07-09-05, 09:41
Thanks to Jackson, for not disappointing me.
I drew the image of Jackson in my mind, for all the years I've been reading this forum.
He's though, he has his own ideas and measure that are hard to bend or break, he's an old hard d*ck !
However, he's a GENTLEMAN ! He's a servant of the public, and he's a fellow.
Let's all get back to basics and go on enrichening our sections of the forums, abiding the rules better from now on (while it is still FREE)...
Carpe Diem
This whole brouhaha has resurrected my previous fascination with Morocco (started by a 1982 issue of Surfer magazine that ran a foto spead of Agadir's Anchor Point) and I hope to visit next winter. So, from a personal point of view, I hope the Belguel incident will not have a chilling effect on people posting here.
Further discussion of the incident is NOT what the board needs now. Rather, the focus should be redirected towards where and how to meet women in Morocco without offending local sensibilities. Don't be a "wolf", the predators that Belguel described as the target of local authorities.
While special care and tact is required due to local sensitivites, let's not shut down the flow of information entirely. OBVIOUSLY, any picture posted should obscure faces and not be degrading to Islam nor feature any clothing or objects associated with Islam.
Finally, I urge Jackson to impose a firm rule against fotos or text degrading to women, other cultures, religions etc.. This will cause an outcry, I am sure, but I personally think it a matter of survival that WSG ban all X rated fotos and limit it to Playboy genre (rather than the Hustler genre exemplified by Belguel's fotos). In this politivcal climate, you are going to take LOTS of heat in any event and there are tons of porn sites for the guys who want to see hardcore pictures. IMHO having those pictures really attracts an undesireable element (scary how much I sound like one of the moral majority types I SO despise).
Not all mongers are ant****ial misfits unable to attract "regular" girls, despite that perception among the general public. I hope Jackson, and WSGers, will assiduously avoid reinforcing that perception.
Mr Jackson.
Once again, you have shown your leadership skills by taking the right decision against the poll results.
I hope to meet you once, as BA is on the top of my next destinations list, and the WSG mansion on the top of my best dreams list.
The question was about what to do with the Belguel pics, and we have now the answer. Yet, I don't want to appear pushy, but as soon a major problem has been solved, the next question to face is how to prevent the problem to occur again.
This question has been anticipated by most of the previous posts. I agree it is not the right thread for it, as it is not concerning only Morocco.
Even if my personal opinion is to remove all the pics from the WSG for the reasons I've previously explained, I understand most of the members would not agree about this. At least, some necessary Site rules have to be added, easy understandable by all.
These are my suggestions:
1- Photos and reports degrading women, other cultures, other religions are strictly forbidden.
2-Photos my not show persons in sexual or degrading positions:
- We can not control if they are not minors
- We can not control if it is exposed with their consent
- We are not a porn site (at least on a porn site it is published with the consent of the involved people).
3-For the safety and privacy of the girls AND the members, Emails, real names, identifiable faces or any other clues that my lead to identify persons are forbidden in the reports and the photos.
Hope this will help
Leparticular
07-18-05, 11:13
I'm glad Jackson removed those photos and I think Belguel got and is getting what he deserved specially in the light of the damage he caused the women involved, their families and to a lesser extent a monger's destination. I remember looking at those photos way back in the day and thinking to my self, this guy is sick!
I also personally think he was fully aware of the ramifications of his actions (as he had intimate knowledge of Morroco) but still went through with them.
Anyways, I personally don't even enjoy the hardcore shots that I find here once in a while. I appreciate the the nude shots of women though, where they're not in the act but just standing there, posing, etc. I don't know about anyone else but what I like seeing is the different looks and body types that a particular nation produces. I shared a few shots in the Cuba thread, non were Hardcore although I had few HC shots that I kept to myself. I don't see the urge of showing my dick entering some pussy CLOSE UP!? I'd rather show you what the woman looked like.
Local Expert
07-22-05, 08:53
avenging muslims seek to kill belgian journalist
from the desk of paul belien on wed, 2005-07-13 19:03
for decades tintin has been the world’s most famous belgian reporter. but now it looks like he may have a competitor. philippe servaty is the 42-year old chief economics correspondent of le soir, brussels’ most influential newspaper. this modern tintin’s adventures took him to morocco several times over the past years. there dozens of women ended up in his bed and naked in front of his camera lens.
one of them is 42-year old samira, a teacher in agadir. servaty told her that he loved her and asked her to pose nude for a souvenir picture. he had her stand on all fours with a leash around her neck while he took her doggy-style. “these sluts are so naive. if you promise to marry them and take them along with you to brussels they do whatever you ask,” servaty wrote on a website where he posted samira’s picture. another woman, 23-year old amina, was photographed while servaty urinated on her. he had promised her that he was going to help her flee the husband of her arranged marriage and use his media connections to make her a movie star.
once servaty had gone home, however, the women never again heard of their brussels “manneken pis.” neither did they know that he made them stars on the internet. samira eventually abandoned her dreams of a new life in the heart of europe as the wife of one of its major journalists and got engaged to a local agadir man whom she was to marry later this year. on 22 april, however, her fiancé recognised her on a cd-rom that had been made of the modern tintin’s moroccan adventures and was for sale in the souks of agadir. he beat her up and threw her out. servaty’s photo collection contained over 80 moroccan women aged between 17 and 45, some tall, some fat, some beautiful, some ugly, some single, some married, and all but one depicted in the most degrading poses.
samira went to the police to lodge a complaint against servaty. this was only the beginning of her ordeal. to pose for pornographic pictures is a crime in morocco and she was immediately arrested. a judge sentenced her to a heavy fine and a prison sentence of one year. her school fired her, her family cast her out, all her friends abandoned her, while the police began a search for servaty’s other models. so far, 13 have been convicted to prison sentences, the husband of one of them went insane, two attempted to commit suicide in gaol and some, whom the police cannot find, are thought to have killed themselves or to have been murdered by their disgraced family. even 30-year old hafida, the only woman in the pictures who had not taken her clothes off, has become a social outcast. the neighbours call her a ***** and the local shops refuse to let her enter.
when the moroccan police authorities asked their belgian colleagues to arrest the new tintin, they were told by thomson and thompson in brussels that this was impossible. i would say even more, according to belgian law servaty had done nothing wrong: the women had freely consented to having him take the pictures.
le soir, however, forced servaty to resign in early june when it became known that servaty had added “anti-islamic remarks” to some of the pictures, like “there is no better drug than to ejaculate on the veiled face of a woman” or “i met her walking down the street in her djellaba. a few minutes later the f***ing ***** did everything i wanted. miracles do happen, even in a muslim country!” abusing the credulity of women to get them to engage in obscenities is one thing, “insulting” islam is another. last year le soir, the voice of the brussels francophone establishment and a pillar of the belgian regime, had loudly applauded the suppression of belgium’s biggest party, the flemish-separatist vlaams blok, as a criminal organisation because some individual vb members, including a turkish-born woman who criticised the treatment of women in fundamentalist muslim societies, had made remarks which according to the belgian judiciary “contributed to a campaign of racial hatred.” since one of its senior writers has been proved a “racist,” le soir even claims to be “one of servaty’s victims” along with the poor moroccan women.
the racist remarks might possibly get the new tintin into a belgian gaol after all. since the affair has deeply shocked morocco the belgian authorities are under pressure from the moroccan judicial, political and diplomatic authorities to prosecute servaty. the latter himself realises that he might currently be better off in gaol than out of it. moroccan families desiring to avenge their daughters have put a price on the journalist’s head. the reason why they want him dead and why their daughters are committing suicide has nothing to do with servaty’s mockery of the naivety of muslim women dreaming of a better life in europe, but everything with his sexual abuse of them – the very thing for which he cannot be prosecuted in brussels. the servaty affair is basically a sex scandal, not a racist crime. however, in contemporary europe making rude remarks about a group of people is a crime while willfully and malignantly wrecking the lives of individuals is not if these individuals have been so stupid as to trust sweet words and empty promises.
a second observation needs to be made. morality has gone berserk all over europe, but nowhere to the same degree as in belgium. there are, of course, sexual perverts everywhere, but philippe servaty was not an ordinary sex tourist. he worked for the most influential newspaper in his country. he was a member of the brussels incrowd, an acquaintance of politicians, academics and businessmen, whom he regularly met and interviewed. though he posted his photos under a pseudonym – “belguel” – the new tintin did not hide his identity as every sensible non-belgian involved in similar “adventures” would do. he gave the moroccan girls his real name and address and he told them he worked for le soir.
in the summer of 2004, servaty had been arrested by the moroccan police. they discovered pornographic pictures in his possession and told him that he risked imprisonment for this. he related his story on the internet: “the police kept me in for 18 hours, but they released me because morocco has good relations with belgium where i am a well known person.” one of his internet fans, however, suspected that his nationality was exactly the reason why the moroccans had searched servaty for pornography in the first place: “they probably detained him because he is a belgian.”
like servaty, i am a belgian journalist. since i started my career in journalism in 1982 i have wondered why belgium is being plagued by so many scandals – corruption, sex scandals, political murders, abductions, extortions, gangs extending into the police, the judiciary and the political parties. i have come to the conclusion that it has to do with the nature of belgium, which is an artificial state combining dutch-speaking flanders and french-speaking wallonia. belgium is not a genuine nation; it is nothing but a political construction. political power corrupts. to keep the country together the regime has to buy the adherence of a significant part of the population. corrupt voters do not care about corrupt politicians and corrupt politicians do not care about organised crime. brussels is marked by an absence of morality. there is a lesson here for everyone. if europe ever “belgianises,” i. e. becomes a state without a real nation, it will end up as the same moral cesspit that belgium is today.
the history of belgium reads like a long list of scandals. in the 1970s, belgium’s present king albert ii, then still the crown prince, was implicated in a sex affair involving the bribery of saudi officials. in 1990, police officers revealed the existence of photos and videotapes of sex parties to members of a belgian parliamentary inquiry committee investigating the malfunctioning of the police and the judiciary. the mafia is said to have used the tapes to blackmail high ranking officials. in 1997, officers declared to a second parliamentary inquiry committee that the tapes had “mysteriously disappeared” from the police files. ordinary belgians have come to suspect that there are people belonging to the establishment who can do whatever they please. philippe servaty undoubtedly thought he was one of these. it is only because moroccan hit squads are now hunting for him, that he has discovered there is a price to be paid for immorality.
I personally think Belguel is getting what he deserves. What was he smoking or drinking posting full pics of Muslim women or any woman for that matter without their permission. I can't even begin to imagine the trouble these women are in, especially in a Muslim country. I agree with another poster that he was probably fully aware of the ramifications of his actions (as he had intimate knowledge of Morroco) but still went through with them. Stupid, stupid stupid. He is probably safer in a Belgian jail that being out on the streets.
Since you honour my memory by noting that I'm "...strangely silent now, by the way!" I don't mind piping up. (If not for other reasons, to show I'm not a coward...) I don't want to engage in (yet another) lengthy polemic, so let me just make three brief points:
1) My "lightning bolts" last year were not motivated by a value judgement regarding the taste or appropriateness of Belguel's posting, but by your reaction to his predicament. Call it a "female" reaction on my part, but when a fellow poster on a board I frequent gets into trouble, my instincts are to try and support him (regardless of his faults). Responding with vindictiveness and schadenfreude I hold to be unsympathetic. I stand by this position.
2) If you, I, a Moroccan semi-pro or Paris Hilton allow a bloke to produce pornographic photos of you then you know (or should know) that he holds the copyright and is free to publish them where he wants. There's not much point in claiming afterwards that "it was all his fault": it takes two to tango.
3) I understand and support Jackson's decision to delete the offending photos. For a long time he upheld the basic principles of point 2 ("let us assume adult people know what they're doing..."), but with storm that is now blowing he needs, in his own and all of our interest, to shield WSG from being drawn into the controversy.
CBGBConnisur
07-22-05, 22:35
Belguel is a fucking retard to post pornographic photos of Muslim women living inside a Muslim country. Even if he posted photos of Muslim women who live in Western countries(like Europe), it is foolish, and puts these women in danger.
No more coffee tables?? Whaaaaaaaaaahhh ha ha ha!!! :( :( :(
Member #2001
07-23-05, 04:23
i got the cofee tables and i will be glad to repost if someone wants to see them. Well I might have to think about it and maybe i can sell them on ebay. I have to think about it
gentlemen, read this:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/66
and if you do french, this:
http://www.aujourdhui.ma/servaty-ag...-belge-rub.html
and for the forum’s response:
http://www.internationalsexguide.in...65&page=9&pp=15
belguel’s mad stupidity and cruelty are breathtaking. he told the girls his real name, he told the world theirs, he pissed on them, literally, then wrote gloating arrogant hatefulness. this, from an ‘homme du monde’ journalist, not a provincial half-wit. he has lost his celebrity job, risks extradition, faces death threats from the jihad battalions, and is belgium’s latest sleaze scandal. worst of all, horrifying, is that some of these poor girls have been imprisoned for offending public morality, in a country that treats its women like dirt but will sing and dance about a foreigner doing so in public.
he has destroyed his own life, and those of perhaps 80 unfortunate women, who for money or an escape from their stifling existence, did his bidding for an hour and will always regret it. he must have had a death wish, but like the arsehole who drives at 180km the wrong way down the motorway, he needed to take others with him.
mur remembers seeing the photos months ago, disliking the sneering comments more than the pics. reactions on the forum varied: there was applause, sorry to say, but also voices telling ‘belguel’ that he was putting the girls at terrible risk and that he himself would soon be in trouble.
but now we should all ask ourselves if we are ‘belguels’ in the making. ‘there, but for the grace of god, go i…’ mur has just read the entire lisbon board from beginning to end, and browsed many other countries.
like belguel, murilloa would lose everything if exposed. he would be crushed by the scandal. many who know him would be shocked and disgusted beyond words. but he believes that none of his own words have denigrated, humiliated, and much less endangered a woman. on the contrary, apart from some disgust and some frustration, most of his shit demonstrates that mur is an adoring respectful worshipper of femininity. unlike ‘belguel’, mur could perhaps face his aged mum and try to explain.
the same goes for the other regular writers here. perhaps it’s because lisbon is not a genuine ‘sex tourism’ destination. hobby visitors always enjoy the city, while residents - well, by now you know what we get up to. but nobody comes to lisbon only for prostitutes, and our section has not yet attracted the obsessive woman haters who are elsewhere. look at the china board, look at the thai board, and others: you will see the grim evidence. the photography buffs seem especially prone to triumphalist close-ups and sadistic “take that, b*tch” attitudes.
the point of this? not to be complacent. of course, but of course, our feminist friends are not wrong when they tell us that we are exploiting economically disadvantaged women in giving free rein to our ignoble sexuality. point conceded, if we must, although it never felt that way during today’s loving and glorious encounter with martinha of alges-via-são paulo, the tiny, plain, absorbing, orgasmic fifty-euro leading lady in mur’s life just now.
http://www.portalprivado.com/marta2/index.htm
no, mur’s only aim is to invite comment, to beg lisbonites to post more, but to do so with tolerance, respect, humour and above all, appreciation of our girls. look at some of the merciless misogynists elsewhere, and do otherwise. don’t expect jackson to hammer them: censorship and suchlike authoritarian practices never work. what works, is the civilised consensus among honest peers that we shall do what we do in a kind and decorous manner.
sorry to bore on. truth is, the servaty story has been food for much painful thought.
anyone tried most-expensive portal privado chica bianca yet?
or will muri, “..sigh..” have to shoulder this heavy responsibility for the common weal?
Well said Mur!
I completely agree with your comments.
Organicgrowth
08-16-05, 22:10
What a complete bastard he turned out to be...
We play, we pay, we might post... We do not degrade women. That is wrong; I'm sure every gentleman here agrees with htis.
Regards, Havanaman
Furryscott
08-18-05, 15:23
I was thinking I had logged onto a Sex Tourist website. Not the Morality Militia website.
Did you guys ever stop and think that prostitution is illegal in 49 states. (And you are here looking for some illegal tail). But you're looking out for women who willfully get theor photo taken by someone?
I don't see the point to your arguements. I really don't. If these girls knew that their lives would be in jeopardy if pictures were taken of them getting fucked in the ass and posted on the internet, he babe it's called free will. You agreed to hop up on the table. You took it in the ass while watching a camera go *click*. It's time to think. hmmm maybe this isn't such a good idea.
But now some of you want to try and ruin the "sight seeing" for the rest of us. I, for one, am happy the pictures were posted. A place I never would have thought was "fertile" is now on the top 4 places I will be traveling this season. (I may even pick up where Beguel left off. An "Homage" of sorts.)
For those of you that wish to censure this whole experience: I think it's about time that you quit mongering all-together and go find Jesus. I think it's quite hypocritical of you to preach in the defense of women being paid to perform what is considered illegal in the states. Why else would you be on this Forum right now?
Thats my two cents. Don't change a thing. The majority spoke, the pictures stay! Hell, I say post them all!
now that the btk pervert is behind bars, one has to wonder how many other such people frequent this site. there is no doubt that the traveler (who [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) thai children but only in the safety of his hotel room) and belguel were two btk's in the making but we have to wonder how many others are out there. although the choirboys (uneducated trailer trash morons like iball who posts nude photos of children on this site) might get a fool's pardon in some quarters, yet americans and others who believe the desperation of third world women and little boys and girls give them carte blanche to abandon themselves to their lowest perversions (pissing on their faces like belguel and [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) their children like the traveler) should be given no quarter. irrespective of our views on perverts and predators like the traveler and belguel (and they have their supporters and fellow travelers), we should not be surprised that others, muslims and thais for example, hate us and want to kill us because of what these btks in the making do to their sisters, sons and daughters. people who get off on their photos or on women having sex with pigs and other animals should ask themselves some serious questions before they too become another btk/belguel/the traveler.
Organicgrowth
08-20-05, 10:54
Degradation of women, in any context, is wrong.
Regards, Havanaman
Degradation of women, in any context, is wrong. Regards, Havanaman
But most of us do pull in our horns and are not BTKs in the making. Indeed BTK is interesting in that the guy gets/got off on any remembrance of his horrible crimes, so much so that they do not want to give him crayons or anything else to summon up his demons while in jail. Most of us here are easily pleased and most fuck hookers just for relief. I regard them as a night cap and I am genuinely interested in their lives as it opens up doors (not trap doors) I would not otherwise see. However, there is a very dark side to this hobby as can be seen on the Thai Traveler board and with Belguel. It is to stop their poison spreading that vigilance is essential. We might degrade women by paying them for sex but that is a far cry from what BTK and The Traveler do. Although jail time would not worry me as it would allow me to catch up on my reading, yet I would not like to do the things BTK or The Traveler get off on. Moderation in all things, I guess.
This is where I terminate my long-standing support for Belguel. NOT because I agree with many of the posters on this thread: most people on WSG have been egging him on (kindly look at the poll on the top of the page; more than 70% thought that they Agadir photos should remain posted) and I find it unsympathetic to come back now, when the whole thing has exploded in Belguel's face, shake ones head wisely and say "it went too far". That's the kind of middle-class hypocricy that George Bernard Shaw derided in the 1920s. He was right then, he still is.
Why, then, am I getting disgusted with Belguel? Because I have been making some enquiries of my own, and even talked with a lawyer friend of mine. A guy is allowed to produce pornography and post it on the internet without prior consent of the models. They know, or should know, that he has the copyright and can do with the photos what he wants. That is the law. If the porn that the models consent to is of the BDSM type then he can post text of the type "that THAT b*tch!" as well, as this is in the character of the exposition. That too is the law.
However, the comments cannot rise to the level of defamation of neither women, races nor creeds. And HERE comes the problem I'm having with Belguel: he did not (as I now know) limit his rants to the congregation on this board. He posted them on discussion boards for ordinary Moroccans with no interest in pornography, accompanied with text like "follow this link and see how I treat Arab women..."
I'm sure we can all agree that shoving porn under the noses of people who don't want is tasteless in the extreme. If the purpose is to denigrate the target audience by means of phallocratic comments then it's probably racist as well - which is precisely why the Belgian justice is now taking an interest in the matter. (BTW, "Belguel" is not just a word game with belle guele, "beautiful face", it is also a phonetic prank on the main Moroccan newpaper TelQuel... a little joke among journalists.)
Belguel has not done a great favour to us here on WSG either: I wouldn't have a problem with Moroccan fellow mongers taking a butchers at his photos on this site, where they come freely and of their own account. However, peddling them to the general public is hardly the kind of publicity we (and Jackson) would want.
he did not (as I now know) limit his rants to the congregation on this board. He posted them on discussion boards for ordinary Moroccans Were those later posts his? I mean, the Maroccan louts in Belgium or elsewhere were perfectly capable of faking his identity. On another note, it is a pity the Belgians don't raise hell every time a Moroccan in Belgium posts pics of his Belgian girlfriend on a swinging site. It would be about time we start giving those arm-chair jihadists a taste of their own medicine.
All the same, the man's passion for pic posting and role playing was stronger than was good for him. Besides, in the circumstances rules of fairness were broken. So it was that he visited one of the African countries after I briefed him on that country. He didn't stay long and didn't like it half as much as he'd enjoyed Marocco but he did make some pics of the same genre as the Agadir pics (don't ask me where or if he posted them, the least I want to do is to trigger another hunt for Belguel pics). More importantly, so he told me himself, he had several girls posing for him under the pretence that he was a porn movie producer who could get them a career in the West. At least one of the girls travelled 500 miles from her home town and back to meet him and do a session, and, on his own admission, it was all he could do to give her some travel money: and this is where I start to get fidgety. Taking poverty-stricken girls for a ride in this way means drawing on a credit other mongers like me, who tend to overpay slightly rather than the reverse, have been consolidating over the years in less well-known mongering destinations like the African country -- the name of which, you may have guessed, I prefer to withold in case outsiders spying on this forum tried to use the information to add a sequel to this whole affair. This is a side-issue compared to the sadder implications of the whole affair but it is one that got me thinking. Apart from that, the removal of the pics from this forum was the best course of action for all concerned.
I agree with Mur and the Captain.
Hi folks,
I've just stumbled upon the story and downloaded 87 of Belguel's pictures (I think it has been removed from this site).
Would anyone know where I can find the rest? (I've heard there are about 193). A link would be much appreciated.
Cheers
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