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Admin
11-09-05, 00:18
Thread Starter.

Soaring Eagle
11-09-05, 01:43
If you want to marry a "foreign woman" and are a US Citizen, I advise meeting them here in the states. That way, you can find out how well they are socialized to our way of doing things. If they have their green card, that helps (big time).

I married a so-called "foreign woman" who had lived in the US for ten years, spoke good English, and understood this country up to a point. It has worked out (so far), although there have been a few bumps on the road, but no worse than what anyone's regular experiences are like in a marriage.

Where to meet them.? Go to their national restaurants here in the states for starters. Worked for me, because I had worked and lived in her homeland a short while several years before I met her.

Wabbit
11-09-05, 09:41
I married a foreign woman, and we have been happily married almost 10 years now.

I believe it is important to realize that, like so many other things, it takes some compromise to share your life with somebody from a different cultural background. If you're not open to change, don't marry a foreigner (and probably better don't marry at all).

If she speaks a different language, try to learn at least the basics of it.

Member #2001
11-09-05, 10:21
If you marry an foriegn woman that has been in the states for sometime, you will not be marring a forign woman, because sooner or later they all become americanized to the culture. I have seen this happ0en many, many times.

If you marry a forign woman then sure they will take advantage of you if you let her, meaning that if you know what she wants and that she wants a greencard then its no problem.

If you want to marry a forign woamn for love it could work also, but I think you should know this person and live with this person for at least 2 years, otherwise you will set yourself up for a heartache, and a financial hit. That would not be worgh it in my opion.

Best option in my opion is to move to a forign woman and fall in love with one and stay with her for the rest of your life, in the country where she is from. That way you will be submurges in the culture and she will never be americanized. As far as p4p is concerend i guess you soucl still get away with it or you may not want to, but its always nice to have the option if you live in another country.

Jaimito Cartero
11-09-05, 11:15
I would not recommend marrying any woman! Talk about telling people to RTFF! :)

However, as someone who *was* stupid enough to both marry a woman, and in a foreign country, I would say to get to know the person well before you do it, just like you would here. I would think there would have to be some very persuasive reason to marry as well.

Lima Busy
11-09-05, 20:17
I imagine there are benefits to shooting oneself in the foot as well......

Having been married to both a AW and a foriegn women I have learned relationships are relationships and all require alot of work on both partners parts in order to be sucessful.

That bieng said I have found snippets of good advice in a few of the posts here. I particularly like the "hold on loosely" quote especially when you are talking 30 year age differences. My own wife who I trust a 1000%, goes absolutly crazy because the reigns are so loose. Women from "Machismo" countries are very confused by liberal gringo attitudes. For example; Today my wifes first boyfriend(only 2 lovers before me) got out of the hospitable after trying to commit suicide. I told her that I thought she should go visit him, because I knew it was going to be the next question. Now she probably will not go because I passed the test again.

I am a firm believer in living in the foreign womens culture and country. In most other cultures there is much more emphasis placed on family then the states. She has her family and you have your ex-pat friends and everybody is happy.

Besides then you have the home turf advantage if like me you live a monger's paradise

LB

Lima Busy
11-09-05, 20:21
Buddy, I hope you do not think I am stalking you, but i found you to be a interesting guy and I generally read your posts.

Buena Suerte!
LB

CBGBConnisur
11-09-05, 20:34
Lima's got the right idea, moving a woman from one country to another with a different culture and lifestyle could ruin her and the relationship. Living with her in her homeland is the better way to go.

Beavis
11-10-05, 00:45
It depends on the woman. If she was a bar girl it isn't going to work no matter where you live. If you find a down to earth girl that really wants to better herself but is not a gold digger it will work either place. The best way is after you have her convinced to come with you to your home country reverse your plans and tell her you would rather live in her country. The expression on her face will tell you a lot. I have been married to a Colombiana almost a year and would not change anything. She will go with me anywhere I want to go.

Felix The Cat
11-10-05, 02:26
It depends on the woman. If she was a bar girl it isn't going to work no matter where you live. If you find a down to earth girl that really wants to better herself but is not a gold digger it will work either place. The best way is after you have her convinced to come with you to your home country reverse your plans and tell her you would rather live in her country. The expression on her face will tell you a lot. I have been married to a Colombiana almost a year and would not change anything. She will go with me anywhere I want to go.I'd like to believe this and sometimes I do, others I don't. I married a Peruvian girl who I met in a bar, albeit one of the priciest in Lima. She's living here in the USA with me now along with someone who tagged along (you can draw your conclusion here - and its not someone older than her).

Beavis - did you meet your wife in a Colombian "bar"? And Lima - is your wife Peruvian?

Lima Busy
11-10-05, 03:41
that we are talking about girls that have never had any connection with the p4p scene. I am happy for you and your Columbiana, That was actually my first choice before I discovered Peruvian girls and subsequently got married.

My wife would like to visit the states in the future but does not want to live there. I know where you are coming from, My wife told me it was not important to her were we lived, only that we were together. For me that one line said it all!

It does not matter where you go in the pursuit of happiness as long as you find it. Leaving the USA was my first priority everything since has been gravy!

Bueno Suerte to you and your wife.

P.S. Before one of you young idiots criticsizes me for being on the boards, like many others I no longer seek information here, but wish to give back to all those who helped me in the past!

Member #2001
11-10-05, 04:07
I agree you all the way. My firlst priorty is to leave the country and move somewhere else, even if it means giving up my citizanship. I doubt that will be necessary, since I hope to seen get double citizanship so I can travel to cuba and other countries that are not so freindly to the american policies of today. It it will become necessary then I would give up my american passport to live in a normal (in my opoin america is not a normal country today) country.

so far there has been alot of good comments on this thread and I hope that they will continue.

Maybe one day I will get married, but that day is not today and I will never, never marry an american woman even if she is new to the country.

Jaimito Cartero
11-10-05, 04:35
Buddy, I hope you do not think I am stalking you, but i found you to be a interesting guy and I generally read your posts.

Buena Suerte!
LB

No problem. You've got a very enchanting wife, and it was pleasant to meet the both of you in Lima.

I got married when I was young and dumb(er). I'm not really sorry I got married, it made me get a bit more serious about business and such, but I should have cut it off rapidly when it was going south. If I announce that I'm getting married soon, just shoot me, okay? :)

Lima Busy
11-10-05, 04:44
great joy's of moving to another country is to have uncle sam pay for your young wife and children to live in luxury in your adopted country. if you think about it the average wage is about $200 a month in most 3rd world countries. i maxed out my ss by the time i was 40(52 now) so when i go (die)banging my wife who is 30 years younger, she will collect $2,000 a month and my 4 month old son $1,000 until he is 18. if every able bodied old fart did the same we could wipe out poverty in most of the world and leave our american ex-wives with the debt. actually more hyperbole than anything, but you guys get the jist.

there is a story here in lima that may or may not be urban legend, but i love the point of it.

supposedly last year there was a 90 year old guy who was the oldest retired worker from gm. his wife died and he came to lima in search of a new wife who would keep collecting his very generous benefits. he used to come to my friends place cafe z to meet these prospective women. as the story goes he married a 14 year old and brought her back to the states. before anyone screams ****philia it is perfectly legal here and the only one he was interested in fucking was gm!

lb

Lima Busy
11-10-05, 05:00
While we are tossing around compliments, I have two for you! First you are the first "ISG Monger" I ever introduced my enchanting wife too. Also I need to apoligize for introducing you as my buddy from "that SEX GROUP". How lame was that?

Secondly I saw "Mary" aka "M" yesterday and she told me how you guy's ran into each other at the Arabe restaurant and that in her words you were a real caballero "gentleman", I want to thank you for that! Speaking of thank you's she gave me another one today! Ja Ja!

LB

Beavis
11-10-05, 05:22
No Lima absolutely I am against the marrying a ***** routine. I have seen so many guys lose their ass because they were too stupid to see what was going on. We even know one guy who thinks he has married an angel and she is still doing the deed on the side. No excuse me I know 3 who are stuck in that realm of denial. My wife knew absolutely nothing about that life. She was poor but had pride and dignity. To those who just don't want to believe that is your option but remember when you wake up in the morning you are laying beside a *****. The guys who wake up beside her when you are gone know that.

Don Tonto
11-10-05, 05:39
I was just reading through this thread and don't have much to comment except to say if your foreign girl was a former sex worker, never have her admit it to U.S. Immigration. If she does, she will be automatically denied entry into the U.S., by law. The immigration forms specifically ask this question.

Lima Busy
11-11-05, 16:47
There is a interesting conversation going on over in the "American Women" thread, that I have asked the contributers to bring over here where it belongs. I am posting a bit of others conversation on that board in a attempt to bring it here where it belongs and to solicit input!


As someone who has gone out and brought back a foriegn wife, I would like to share a few thoughts.

1. Take the time to get to know her. If this means lot's of time on the chat
line and expensive phone bills, so be it.

2. Pick a girl that has decent english skills (or whatever language you speak)
Difficulties in communication will get VERY tiresome after awhile.

3. Go visit her in her own country, meet her family, friends and co-workers.
This will give you a better idea of her background and helps weed out the
pros and semi-pros. It also helps with point #1 as you get to know her
better.

4. Pick someone who is a bit older. If you're pushing 40 and she just turned
20, your cock may thinks it's died and gone to heaven, but things probably
won't work out. Not only that, but the younger the girl, the greater and
faster will be the process of assimilation. A 15 year gap is about the most
you can go and still realistically have a chance of marrying for love.

5. I told my wife that we'd be spending at least half the year back in her
country once I retired. If they are just looking for a visa, they won't be too
keen on this idea. It's also a good selling point for a genuine girl..... most
people who have feelings don't like the idea of leaving their friends and
family behind forever. You'd probably do well to be suspicious of any
woman who could leave everyone and everything behind so easily.

6. Encourage her to have friends who are from her own country or some
similar background. Eg. have your new Brazilian woman spend all the time
she wants with other girls from Brazil. This will help her retain more of her
own culture and attitudes..... the very things that made her so appealing
in the first place.

7. Be the man! This is the most important point by far. Normal women expect
the man to take care of them, make decisions and generally be in charge of
things. I talk to my wife, ask her for her opinions and advice..... but once
I've made a decision about something, that's it... done, over, end of story.
She accepts it, expects it and respects me for it.

There's still a chance that things could fuck up. There's no such thing as a perfect woman and none of us guys are perfect either. Even being as careful as possible, you still might get one of those rotten-egg visa hunters who will fuck you over and leave you the first chance she gets.

My wife is young and sexy. She's also very dependable, but she's not perfect by a long shot. Still, she's 10 times better than any woman I could have ever gotten here at home. More than anything else, just to have even a chance at a decent woman makes getting a foreign wife worth a try.

Rock Dog I hear you on every point! I have met girls on web sites that at first glance seemed OK, but after futher research, it has turned out that her entire family was on the same site! Nonetheless a damn good lay!

My current Colombian Gal is 13 years my junior and I have interviewed everyone in her life! Mommy, Grand Ma, Aunts, Uncle and friends!

I have made it clear to her that I have no plans on staying in the States and she is fine with that, because she is truly a proud Colombian woman and loves her country!

Rock, your most important point here is be the MAN! I have told my girl and her family alike this is how I feel a relationship should be! Baby girl will get herr way 90% of the time because LP just aint that picky, but when it comes to making a decision and we can not come to a common conclusion, then LP is calling the ball, plain and simple cut and dry!

Everyone agrees with me including Grand Ma!

Rock, one thing that you left out was do not open your wallet to these girls, even in their country! Hell my girl is from Colombia and to take her to a nice resturant is the same price as eating at McDonalds in the states!

I'm not cheap, I've seen her 4 times this year alone, and everytime I bring her a thing or two from Ross, but she is just as excited when I cook her dinner or make her a cup of coffee!

Lima Busy
11-11-05, 18:13
Rock, Latina Passion and others
I would like to add a few comments if I may?

2. Pick a girl that has decent english skills (or whatever language you speak)
Difficulties in communication will get VERY tiresome after awhile.

Important point! My wife has been studying English for a year now and converses extremely well, However we still have misunderstandings as a result of the lack of command of the others language. More than I care to remember a fight has ensued as a result of innocent comments taken out of context. I have to admit it is more my responsibility as I am the “guest” in her country.

4. Pick someone who is a bit older. If you're pushing 40 and she just turned
20, your cock may thinks it's died and gone to heaven, but things probably
won't work out. Not only that, but the younger the girl, the greater and
faster will be the process of assimilation. A 15 year gap is about the most
you can go and still realistically have a chance of marrying for love.

Originally, I took this out of context assuming we were all bright enough not to bring them home. I personally subscribe to the “Floating Gap” principal which I implemented when I was 23 (5 year gap) and like the FED have increased it at a measured pace to its current level of 27 years. If you and your spouse are both “Enlightened” you will realize Love has no borders or boundaries!

6. Encourage her to have friends who are from her own country or some
similar background. Eg. have your new Brazilian woman spend all the time
she wants with other girls from Brazil. This will help her retain more of her
own culture and attitudes..... the very things that made her so appealing
in the first place.

I must strongly disagree on this one! The foreign women will automatically seek out her “community”. There she will discover and be corrupted by the other “goldiggers” “Visa hounds”. In addition she will meet successful men her own age and ethnicity.

HERE LATINA PASSION ENTERS THE CONVERSATION.
Rock Dog I hear you on every point! I have met girls on web sites that at first glance seemed OK, but after futher research, it has turned out that her entire family was on the same site! Nonetheless a damn good lay!

My current Colombian Gal is 13 years my junior and I have interviewed everyone in her life! Mommy, Grand Ma, Aunts, Uncle and friends!

I have made it clear to her that I have no plans on staying in the States and she is fine with that, because she is truly a proud Colombian woman and loves her country!

Rock, your most important point here is be the MAN! I have told my girl and her family alike this is how I feel a relationship should be! Baby girl will get herr way 90% of the time because LP just aint that picky, but when it comes to making a decision and we can not come to a common conclusion, then LP is calling the ball, plain and simple cut and dry!

Everyone agrees with me including Grand Ma!

This has got to be my favorite comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I remember dating my current wife and espousing the same philosophies. Being older than my wifes parents I took the additional step of “raising the sword of Damacles” as well!
Being in a “Latin” country the mother is the “boss” and it is this person not your wife that must be controlled “mercilessly”. Every day of your life “the mother” will try to instigate trouble in your relationship for her own power trip and financial gain. The very fact that her daughter married a “gringo” increases her status amongst other family members.

Talking about family members my wifes mother and father have 9 brothers and sisters each! That is 36 aunts and uncles and legions of cousins all wanting a piece of the pie!
A week does not go by without rumors of some nephews wife having a affair with one of the rich uncles and I have had 27 year old mothers and their 13 year old daughters both hitting on me at the same party. For those of you who think “Soaps” were American phenomena, COME to Latin America it is real life down here!!!!!



Rock, one thing that you left out was do not open your wallet to these girls, even in their country! Hell my girl is from Colombia and to take her to a nice resturant is the same price as eating at McDonalds in the states!

I'm not cheap, I've seen her 4 times this year alone, and everytime I bring her a thing or two from Ross, but she is just as excited when I cook her dinner or make her a cup of coffee!

Excellent but often ignored point!!!!!!!
If you want to win the heart of a beautiful young foreign women, YOU MUST show her how much you appreciate her every day. In most countries it is unheard of for the man to cook for the women. When I first came to Peru I rented a hotel suite with a kitchen and Jacuzzi. When she arrived home from work the first day, I had a “Pisco Sour” her national drink ready and a perfume bubble bath in the Jacuzzi waiting.

While she had her cocktail I gave her a massage and then told her to relax in the Jacuzzi (never seen one) while I prepared spaghetti carbonara and a bottle of wine.
Not only did I have the best sex of my 52 year life but it gets better every day!

LB

George90
11-13-05, 02:18
Well, this is an interesting thread!

I started looking for a foreign wife not long ago. While mongering I would meet very nice sweet ladies who treated me MUCH better than I have been treated here by AW. I drop into Planet-Love once in a while. I browse some of the agencies that sell addresses.

At the moment, I cannot leave the US because I would lose my source of income. However, I would like to live abroad. The cost of living in some other countries just can't be beat.

The danger I see with THIS thread on THIS site is treating foreign wife seeking as sex tourism. Already, MANY agencies cater specifically to the sexual aspect of finding a young lithe 20 year old to marry. If the feminist groups get a hold of sex mongers discussing foreign wives on sex sites, then they will really run with that ammo.

Let's be careful and not wreck a great thing.

Sinanju Master
11-13-05, 02:46
i don't think you have to worry about the foaming-at the-mouth, man-hating, castration-loving feminists bashing the ideas espoused on this forum since they already do it everyday on college campuses all around the country. if they do bash this forum, they will be exposed as the hypocrites they are by trying to quash freedom of speech and dissenting thought. remember the feminist mantra: "what's mine is mine, and what's any man's is mine".

Wabbit
11-13-05, 17:04
Gentlemen,

I largely agree with Beavis and Lima Busy.

I would not marry a bar or P4P girl from any country, including my own. That having been said, there are many gems from other countries who could be just the one to make you happy.

I know this may sound romantic. I really love my wife, and actually it was me who talked her into moving to my country, basically because job prospects there were better for me in the longer term.

She is a very dedicated wife, who always supports me - much different from most women I know in the US and Western Europe.

With any potential partner, from any country, you should be careful before you know you can trust them.

Lima Busy
11-13-05, 19:54
There is nothing wrong with being romantic! Part of the problem with my first wife probably had something to do with that. Your not the first guy to bring a chica back home and have it work.... The term "warbride" was coined for that 60 years ago when some of our fathers brought back Philipina brides.

In the end although I do not believe in bringing a Chica back, If your life and responsibilities preclude you from moving, you still deserve happiness. It may even be easier for some to keep the marriage working without all that temptation running around. By my handle it is obvious where I live and the women I love, but I hate guy's running around saying the most beautiful live in *****, or the best wives are from *******. It is all such a load of crap!

There are gems in every town,city and country, finding them and having them fall in love with you is the bigger problem IMHO.

LB

Chocha Monger
11-13-05, 19:56
Marriage should be treated as the business arrangement that it really is whether or not one is marrying a foreign or local woman. In other words don't gamble everything that you've work hard for on the chance of finding the right or wrong woman. Would you gamble everything that you own to the flip of a coin? Probably not, so why do it when it comes to marriage? Get asset protection, have a secret stash and insure yourself against the worst possible outcome imaginable.

Women keep secret stashes all the time. Many who work allow their clueless husbands to spend heavily on the house, car, furniture and utilities while they squirrel away their earnings in an individual account. You'd be amazed at how many guys who leave themselves wide open to being cleaned out in the pre-divorce action and are unable to even hire a good lawyer. Women are experts at launching pre-emptive strikes on joint accounts and running up credit cards to the max before guys can even figure out what's hitting them.

Believe it or not, a woman does not need to know everything about you. Sharing secrets might sound romantic but it can come right back and bite you in the ass. If you've ever done anything that you don't want the IRS, the cops or your employer to know about you'd better be prepared to take it with you to the grave because in the event of a divorce everything is fair game. Don't rule out being accused of domestic violence, cruelty, harassment, fraud, child molestation, etc. If she has a really sleazy lawyer and she wants to wage a dirty war you may just find yourself in court gasping at the allegations against you.

If you are an older guy with a taste for just legal pussy and you just can't help blurting out about that account that you have in the Cayman Islands when your dick gets a taste of heaven, then maybe marriage is not for you. When marrying a woman that is considerably younger than you consider it a two year deal where she gets her green card in return for providing you with young pussy. If she sticks around after that and turns out to be a good wife then that's icing on the cake.

Peskadot
11-14-05, 06:38
The only business arrangement you should have with a P4P girl is that you pay them to leave when your done, not to fuck.

That is the true value.

Peskadot

Wabbit
11-15-05, 18:04
Guys,

According to the German philosopher Nietzsche, men like two things: playing and danger.

That accordingly is why they love women, as they are the most dangerous toys.

I just wanted to say: any relationship has its hazards.

Chocha Monger
12-14-05, 05:02
Today, I saw a program called "Russian Brides" on the Discovery Times channel. It documented the lives and relationships of Russian women who met, dated and in some cases married American men. Many of the women already had kids from local men who did not provide any financial support. The women talked about doing what was best for their children and stated that American men were much more likely to accept children that were not their own.

One of the women who had three kids really got my attention when she stated that she was not physically attracted to the older American man who she was dating but if he gave her everything else that she wanted then she could develop a physical attraction to him. At first she was impressed with the things that the guy gave her and the way he treated her, then he married her and took her to the US where she became a housewife in a very nice home. At the end of the documentary she stated that the kind of treatment that she recieved was new to her and she has "changed" now that she is in the US she realized that "it is the way things should be".

Trickbaby
12-14-05, 06:21
I can not make ant blanket statements. I was in the navy many years ago and many of the navy guys married their subic and angeles working girls, Almost all of the women like that were tricking as soon as their hubby went to sea, but in a low key pay my electric bill for this kind of deal.

I have been married to a Colombiana for a decade and a half, I met her in Miami when she had her student visa and married her when it expired. Of course I met all of her cousins that lived here none were dope dealers, Her parents came to visit her, I met her friends that flew up from Bogota and they all seemed like good people, some were a little too heavily religous for my heathen ass, but better religous and stable than a fractured family. I Lived in her country with her for a year and I met many pros mostly the bar girls .. and friends anyone that would marry a b-girl o casa girl is downright dumb. Those girls have deep issues to start with and by the time they are "retired" they dont have baggage they have cargo.

Now if my wife were to bail out on me I would go right back to BAQ , Cali, or STa Marta and find a replacement but not look for pro turn bride. There is too many girls down there that are decent hardworking that will treat you well and will make you happy. That does not mean I would show my bride my 401-K balance or iother things like it. It takes time to develop trust, I think it is best to keep your guard up but be open to love if thats what you want. Do not expose the family jewels on the honeymoon.

This is the opinion of a gringo that has gotten totally p-whipped by that sweet little shy Colombiana who now rules the roost.

Bart9000
12-14-05, 21:55
I saw that documentary about Russian Brides a while back. It was good...very fair and evenhanded. That accordian music that they scored it with 'haunts' me sometimes...you know what I mean.

This is probably the wrong thread for this, but let me put something out there since it just came up. I personally believe that the belief that a woman's sexuality is delicate, and that the act of CHOOSING to sleep with a man that a woman is not attracted to for financial remuneration somehow damages a woman is just bullshit Victorian/Puritan propaganda.

What do you guys think?

Chocha Monger
12-14-05, 23:34
Women have been choosing to sleep with men who they do not consider physically attractive for ages in return for money, power, status, food, shelter, protection, etc. In many cases they are taught this behavior since childhood when mommy tells them that they should marry a rich man when they grow up. What about fairy tales where the girl always ends up marrying a rich prince? Why doesn't the story end with the girl marrying an extremely handsome but poor shepherd and living happily ever after?

The idea that a woman's sexuality is so delicate that no price could ever be placed on it plays right into the hands of women. It allows them to demand the world in return for their sexual favors while they pretend that they are not selling those favors. All one has to do is to observe who women choose to date and marry, then the truth will be obvious. The wives and girlfriends of a lot of Western men must be suffering from severely damaged sexualities, perhaps that is why the quality of the sex diminishes so rapidly after marriage.

Lima Busy
12-15-05, 03:32
I was suprised too hear there were any Russian Brides left! That was big back in the 90's. Every one I know who brought back a Russian bride has since divorced and left the states. Trickbaby at least got it half right (marrying a Colombiana). I am not advocating marriage as it is difficult no matter where you live, but if you must !Marry a South American.

In SA women know the score, A good looking gringo regardless of age can have more hot young women then he could possibly sleep with. I see it time and time again:Forty year old gringo gets divorced comes to Peru. In the first six months fucks 5-10 girls a week. The second six months narrows it down to three bi-weeklies and a occasional on the side. Within a year he is married or has sworn off women completly! The latina women especially from the jungles will absoultly fuck you to death. I am not talking about the golddiggers or P4P girls. These are good "Chicas de Casa" who will not date their countrymen because there fathers were all fuckup's who drank there weekly paychecks away.

If you treat these women with love and respect they will make sure you never want for anything.

But that is IMHO only and YMMV!

LB

Beavis
12-15-05, 04:15
I agree 100%. I married a Colombiana last year and have an absolutely wonderful life. This girl knew nothing about the bar scene or the P4P and our lives are great. The chasing of the *****s and hearing all of the bullshit got old to me. If you marry a ***** that is what you have for a wife, a *****. They are always going to be one and you can't wash it off. The marriages to Brazilian girls does not have a great % of success but I have no doubt I will be with my Colombiana til the end.

TeenieWeenie
02-25-06, 04:32
"The danger I see with THIS thread on THIS site is treating foreign wife seeking as sex tourism. Already, MANY agencies cater specifically to the sexual aspect of finding a young lithe 20 year old to marry. If the feminist groups get a hold of sex mongers discussing foreign wives on sex sites, then they will really run with that ammo."

Too late! They've already passed some stupid-ass law that requires a major background check on any guy planning to use a service to meet foreign women to marry. Goes into effect this March, I believe.

Hey guys, what's your opinion of the dating sites, (such as blossoms.com), anyway? Would I be better off just to go visit another country myself?

Bart9000
03-03-06, 06:21
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,180487,00.html


Interestingly, the article is written by an appearent feminist, and is biased against the law.

I have somewhat mixed feelings about this:

On one hand, it may serve to help protect a socially dis-empowered group from exploitation. There have been some unfortunate incidents.

On the other hand, what is next? The slippery slope of this makes me nervous. Next thing you know, men may have to have their credit reports available on imbedded microchip, subject to inspection by American Women on demand.

I guess there is prescedent for this type of thing in the law, in adoption-monitoring the background of prospective parents, before placing a disempowered, easily exploitable individual (child) with them.

I guess I'm not too worried about this personally-I don't have anything serious to hide that would turn up on said background checks.

Cappadona
03-03-06, 07:49
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,180487,00.html

Interestingly, the article is written by an appearent feminist, and is biased against the law.

I have somewhat mixed feelings about this:

On one hand, it may serve to help protect a socially dis-empowered group from exploitation. There have been some unfortunate incidents.

On the other hand, what is next? The slippery slope of this makes me nervous. Next thing you know, men may have to have their credit reports available on imbedded microchip, subject to inspection by American Women on demand.

I guess there is prescedent for this type of thing in the law, in adoption-monitoring the background of prospective parents, before placing a disempowered, easily exploitable individual (child) with them.

I guess I'm not too worried about this personally-I don't have anything serious to hide that would turn up on said background checks.Another issue not mentioned is that businesses purporting themselves to be marriage brokers will have unfettered access to personal information perhaps including social security numbers or other information whereby personal identification can be acquired and subsequently exploited.

What is not mentioned is that two homicides have occurred over a 5-year span in time which have been linked to "mail-order" brides, whereas how many homicides occur on a daily basis in the United States involving native-born U.S. citizens in domestic disputes.

This is simply, not a very well-thought out law. Although, the United States has an interest in protection of all residents, citizens or alien residents, the burden rests with the marriage brokers for screening both candidates. A better consideration would be for marriage brokers to be registered in the United States, in addition to the country in which their business is based. This would allow regulation of the businesses and perhaps better psychological screening of preferably both parties, preventing both abuse and escape.

Lima Busy
03-03-06, 16:03
I personally do not believe in using a agency to begin with as they provide no real service and generally charge alot. I believe the best way is to just go live in the country that has the type of woman you are seeking. When I first came to Lima it was because of the following:
1. The women are hot and until recently undiscovered.
2. 3 to 1 ratio in Lima
3. There is no social stigma with 20-30 year age differences.
4. The women are hot! opps already said that. Actually I have stated this before Lima is the land of 7's. Although you will find the occasional 8,9,10 it is not the place you come for a "trophy wife", probably better off in EE countries.

Big Bubba
03-03-06, 19:01
I was married to a sexy brazilian lady ffor 5 years. treated her like a lady didn't cheat on her. did all my husband duties, kept roof over her head all bills paid food on table even gave her a nice car mazda protege 5 wagon. Even treated her son like a king. Well life was great until her temporary green card arrived then sex slowed down and life started getting crappy, and when the permanent green card arrived she left me in the dirt. Didn't even take shit just walked out of my life.

Now I treat all women for what they are tricks and ho's. And I do plan on bringing a foreign bride over and she will be my live in prostitute I will screw her so much that when her green card gets here she will have a bowling ball sized vagina and thats a fact.

If it sounds like I am sour yes I am and many of you are also thats why we are all on the sex web page discussing sex and sharing women.

i would just rather have *****s for the rest of my life. Not many headaches and I never have to say I love you.

Thats my 2 cents worth. don't even put me down because many of you are on same boat as me for feelings no matter where you live in the world.

Later
Bubba

Chocha Monger
03-03-06, 20:16
Big Bubba,

Look on the bright side of things, at least she didn't take all of your shit. For few years you got some decent sex with an attractive woman in return for putting food on the table and a roof over her head. You are relatively lucky because an American woman would have taken all of your shit and I do mean everything she could get her hands on! Yes, it sucks that she walked out on you but at least she had the decency to leave you with your money. It could have been worst.

Sinanju Master
03-03-06, 20:25
No disagreements here! If you take a chance to peruse the American Women Board, you may find like-minded dudes who are fed up with the same bullshit as you are. Myself, I no longer tap-dance and jump through flaming, barbed wire-ringed hoops in order to try to win the chance of jumping into the panties of sexually hung-up and selfish American barracudas. Welcome aboard!

Dashing Don
03-03-06, 22:24
I'm curious if anyone here entered into a prenup before marrying their foreign bride and bringing her here to the US.

I'm also greatly interested in knowing if any of these prenups were challenged in the event of a breakup and what the outcome was.

Anecdotally, a friend of mine recently married his Colombian girlfriend here in the US. She's been living here illegally for a number of years. He agreed to marry her just as a favor to her and they went to the lawyers and did the prenup and all. His lawyer said that the paperwork is so routine that in one case, this lawyer had a couple in his office, signing the contract just hours before their marriage.

There have been a lot of interesting posts on precautions to take when choosing a foreign wife, but what happens when the breakup comes.

Don

Adultj
03-03-06, 23:39
I am new to this topic and I wanted to add my two cents. I have a fiancee in Barranquilla. I have visited her and her family several times. Each time I visit I am treatied like a king.

What I have learned among my seven trips to Colombia and Latin America is many of the lower working class girls do not have the opportunity to do the things us Americans do regularly. IN GENERAL, most of the working class men I have met do not have the finances to take women out, so the women there do not expect that of them. All they use is their charm, and they get what we all want.

So, I say we must do the same thing. I charmed my fiancee and it worked. I sent her more words and poems than $$$. When I do take her out, I do not spend many pesos.

I do not think charm will work on a pro, so do not think of marry them.

Also, it was easy for my fiancee to adjust to American life becuase I live near LA and she was able to meet other Latin women, get a job, a still keep that women are second class citizens mentallity. This may be difficult if you bring a Colombiana or Brasilera to Lawrence, Kansas.

Finally, try some Latin dating agencies before you take a trip to a Latin country. I have had success with Latineuro, Latin-Wife, and Mejor Amor. Remeber, as Americans we have access to more information than these girls, so use it. Secondly, the stereotype among these girls is that Gringos have money, if that is your angle, sell them that premise and keep your dinero.

Rock Dog
03-04-06, 08:41
I just read that article the Bart9k referred to in his recent post. I could not believe what I was reading! It seems like the priority is to protect the safety of some foreign women who aren't even US citizens.

How to do this? Simple, require the guy to hand over a PILE of personal info to whatever agency the girl is signed up with. NOT smart. Some of these agencies are kind of shady to begin with..... the LAST place you'd want to send private, personal info about yourself.

I can't imagine how many potential scams and identity thefts will take place because of this. I predict that it won't be long before wedding agencies will be set up not for the purpose of getting people married, but for the opportunity to run scams based on exploiting this information.

Rock

Chocha Monger
03-04-06, 10:32
The "Mail Order Bride Law" may seem like it's about protecting vulnerable immigrant women from their abusive husbands but it actually goes beyond that. You see US immigration law already has provisions for protecting any immigrant wife who makes an allegation of abuse against her US citizen husband. All she has to do is make a report at the police station and this gives her all the necessary documentation she needs to get a permanent green card removing the requirement for the husband's signature after the two year conditional resident period. Some visa hunters have already used this provision in the law to skip out on their husbands shortly after arriving in the US.

Therefore, I doubt that this law is solely based on providing protection against the few psycho guys that may happen to seek a foreign bride. I think this is about discouraging men from seeking foreign brides through agencies entirely. The agencies pissed off American women by calling them fat, bitchy and domineering, it was only a matter of time before they struck back. The deaths of those two unfortunate women provided the noble cause to rally around. With Bush and the Republicans falling out of favor among female voters there was no way that they could have opposed that bill.

What the bill does in effect is make the man a lot more susceptible to being scammed by visa hunters, identity thieves or blackmail. They're hoping that men will decide that putting up with American women is easier than throwing all of their personal information out there for strangers to see in a foreign country. Expect to see a lot of con artists getting in line to go into the mail order bride business. I can see them posing as a potential bride to obtain the information and doing a little work with a contact in the US to put in for credit and empty bank accounts amount other things. Now men using mail order bride agencies have two choices, they can either get screwed by some foreign chick who they hand their personal information to before even meeting her or they can get screwed by an American woman who finds the information by snooping around.

I think that they have broken the back of the marriage agencies with this one. However, there is nothing to stop men from by-passing an agency and meeting women directly via dating sites or travel. The guys with something to hide will still be able to contact and marry foreign women if they're really bent on it. It's just like trying to stop criminals from owning guns by requiring gun shops to run background checks, felons don't exactly show up to do paperwork when they need a gun to commit a crime.

Anyway, I would like to see a background check implemented for American women. I want to know who they fucked before, if they had any sexually transmitted diseases, if they were married and divorced I want to know how it ended and how much they took the guy for in court. I also want to know about any kind of mental condition they may have, and they should undergo a complete DNA profile to detect any genetic predisposition to illnesses. All questioning will be conducted with full polygraph.

Sinanju Master
03-04-06, 16:17
You reminded me of a show I saw a few years ago where two people were in the beginning stages of dating. The guy came to the table willing to trust the woman by just interacting with her to get to know her and let things evolve naturally. If he made a mistake, or if she felt there was no chemistry, he would move on like normal, sane people do. HOWEVER, the woman IMMEDIATELY hired a PI to dig up any dirt on the guy in case there WAS any. There was some insignificant item that the PI turned up that she didn't like, and the relationship was dead before it could even get off the ground. The guy was disgusted that she would do something so underhanded, but he acted totally calm and rational and said his goodbyes without acting like a jerk.

My point is this: women will rationalize this as being "careful" in today's world. HOWEVER, if a GUY did what that woman did, women all over this country would be screeching like Howler Monkeys about how he is such a jerk and possibly a STALKER! As far as I'm concerned, this is ANOTHER nail in the coffin for AW's. Their defenders can HAVE THEM!

One poster made a comment about AW's snooping around for personal info regarding a mate or possible mate. I fully plan on putting a LID on any info (financial or similarly important) in case I (God forbid) hook up long term with a AW.

Rock Dog
03-04-06, 17:18
Chocha,

I suspected the same thing regarding the origin of this law. There's probably some women's group or a couple of politicians wives who suggested it in the first place. Those women may actually think they're doing to protect some innocent foreign woman, but at a subconscious-biological level, they are doing it to eliminate an outside source of female competition. Politicians will always pander to the female vote.... it's disgusting.

You'd think that the US gov'ts first priority should be to protect it's own citizens. In this case, they seem to have gone 180 degrees opposite.

I had mentioned to Bart9K that a lot of these girls online are scammers. A Ukranian friend of mine told me that the Russian mafia sets up teams of them online.... working guys for "small donations" over the internet. It's not a big stretch to say that the same folks will soon be setting up dating agencies for the sole purpose of getting guy's personal info.

Let's see how fast the government acts when it's some guy getting scammed. They'll probably tell him that it was a dumb idea to send out his personal info like that.

Rock

Bart9000
03-04-06, 18:20
"I think that they have broken the back of the marriage agencies with this one. However, there is nothing to stop men from by-passing an agency and meeting women directly via dating sites or travel. The guys with something to hide will still be able to contact and marry foreign women if they're really bent on it. It's just like trying to stop criminals from owning guns by requiring gun shops to run background checks, felons don't exactly show up to do paperwork when they need a gun to commit a crime."---Chocha

You know, before I read this, I was thnking just about exactly the same thing. For one thing, the use of an agency is......well kind of dorky. I would much rather tell people I met my hot young Ukrainian wife while she was sunbathing topless on the beach in Odessa, than to say "yea, I weeded through 15 fake profiles with some sleazy marriage agency'.

Having attempted to be a "middleman" in a couple of different contexts (I wasn't very good at it due to not lying very well), I can say generally that most frequently, the value that they add is miniscule relative to the cost. In this case, I am sure you could easily and inexpenively duplicate what they do by simply placing an ad in the local paper of a desireable location (if you don't want to risk not meeting any girls "just around')

Now that I am thinking about it, I watched a documentary about guys just going to the former Soviet Union for both dating, and marriage. One story featured was a gentleman, who could have been no younger than his late fifties. His fiance was a woman in maybe her early mid thirties. He met her ON THE STREET in I think St. Petersburg, when he noticed her taking great pains to avoid puddles on the street because her shoes had worn holes in them. He offered to buy her some, and she refused to allow him to....

Anyways, I'm sure my point is obvious. If the environment exists which allows a 'grandfatherly" gentleman to pick up a hot "MILF' on the street, in my estimation, who wants to spend time flipping through a bunch internet profiles. Just go.


"Anyway, I would like to see a background check implemented for American women. I want to know who they fucked before, if they had any sexually transmitted diseases, if they were married and divorced I want to know how it ended and how much they took the guy for in court. I also want to know about any kind of mental condition they may have, and they should undergo a complete DNA profile to detect any genetic predisposition to illnesses. All questioning will be conducted with full polygraph."


Amen

B9K

OwnaFord1994
03-05-06, 04:20
if the bride is a thai, her history will be thought of as dubious.

eastern european is not a lot different. i have seen a czech girl who escorts around europe. (it's just like girls travelling across the states.) she also visits the states on a 'boy friend' visa about twice per year. at the time i met her, she was about to retire, earning her last payment on her new house back home.

she was laughing at her peers who had just, or was about to, graduate from universities. there's very little opportunities for them. it's hard for them to afford a mortgage, not to mention owning a complete new house.

her way to preserve her pussy is to give me two very nice oral without condom, until i exploded completely into her mouth. she would carry all my genes into the bathroom without any mess. the first one surprised me. the second one felt so good that i didn't turn her down and went for her pussy instead.

bond street, london. that would be like rodeo drive in beverly hills. i have seen a chinese couple with genetic incompability. the wife is taller than the husband by a full head length. the wife is tall and slender, pretty in a very country way. the husband is just plain and not good to look at. the wife will be wearing plain classic jeans and plain clothes, but still attractive. they have a baby in the stroller. all of them looked happy, especially the wife. i was told you can spot these couples in many malls in the states.

when i know more about the chinese, i think that's the way if i were to do it. typically the husband still has connections like remote family members back in china, in a village or a small town where everybody still knows everybody. his remote family members will recommend someone for him. in that way, both the husband and wife's history are known to each other. the important thing is that their own remote family members don't lie, and won't easily vouch for the husnand or wife if they are not sure.

othewise, do you know how many are non-pros and semi-pros out there? my friend told me that in the states, many young immigrants play hooker instead of attending college class.

Bart9000
03-05-06, 07:33
(should anyone not be aware)is a 'throwaway' ID for James D 2004, a troll on the American Women board, who has recently been confined to his own thread as a serial antagonist. He is noted for his random non-sensical off topic babbling. He appearently believes that we are not smart enough to realize that this is him. I have previously estimated his IQ to be somewhere around 85.

Notice right now that he is attempting to "change the subject" (note the completely out of left field crack about Thai brides) from "marrying foreign women" to prostitutes, which he will begin to babble about. He appearently feels the need to post on an opinion thread about this subject, despite having the whole rest of the site devoted to that topic. Very probably, he is posting on an opinion thread about these things, because if he were to put his delusional fantasies on a geographically specific thread, his feet would be held to the fires of reality, and he would probably be immediately banned for dissemenating false information.


Also, in that he has (as pointed out by another member), absolutely no perspective on the subject of women in any context except for direct cash remuneration for sex-in other words, he has never ever had a girlfriend.

Dick Nasty
03-05-06, 20:24
I have been getting lots of advertisement from "Confidential Connections" who cater eastern european women and "Fiancee Connection" who cater Argentine women. Their fee is expensive for example to reply just one email you will be charge $7. They look organize and professional, but I doubt the girls themselves are the one who send you letters and claim they are attracted to you.
Has anyone try or know about these two International agencies, they appear to be one company. Appreciate your comment.

DN

Bart9000
03-05-06, 23:38
Dick,

There are about a billion agencies out there....in my personal opinion, they are mostly all shady. I don't have a lot of experience, but I've been reading up.

The only thing I have ever seen positive about any agency is Elana Petrova's. It is said that she is also full of bullshit and hype, but the person reporting said that all of her girls were at least real-something that cannot be said about many others.

As a statement of opinion, I am coming out against starting a relationship with correspondence via the internet. It seem ridiculous to spend endless hours writing, only to find that the girl you are speaking to is a scammer, doesn't exist, is actually a guy, has a dental situation you find unpalatable (I have seen black rotting teeth on the 19 year old son of USSR scientist and party member ), or just plain doesn't like you physically....things that can be determined in 2.3 seconds in person.

Now as previously mentioned, an agency may be useful once you get into the desireable area in lining up prospects but...

OwnaFord1994
03-06-06, 07:15
I have been getting lots of advertisement from "Confidential Connections" who cater[s for] eastern european women and "Fiancee Connection" who cater[s for] Argentine women. Their fee is expensive[:] for example[,] to reply [to] just one email you will be charge[d] $7. They look organize[d] and professional, but I doubt [if] the girls themselves are the one[s] who send you letters and claim [that] they are attracted to you.
Has anyone tr[ied], or [does anyone] know about, these two International agencies[?] they appear to be one company. [I'll] Appreciate your comment.

Chocha Monger
03-07-06, 04:22
I have to agree that the internet is a waste of time as far as looking for women goes, especially if you're looking for a wife. A couple of years ago I met this girl from Colombia on Amigos.com when it was still a free site. I chatted with her for a week or two with web cam to make sure that she did exist. I even got to see the tits and beaver.

Then I noticed that her mother had a profile online on the same site which struck me as odd. Anyway, soon the hard luck stories started about her not having money and not being able to continue chatting online. She was also very determined to marry and move to the US. She started calling me her "boyfriend", meanwhile I grew more and more suspicious so I decided to give her "the test". I created an decoy profile and chatted with her, of course she did not have a "boyfriend" but was looking and had fallen on hard times. Anyway, from what I was able to ascertain the females in her family made their living by attempting to scam as many gringos as possible to send them money.

I never made her wise that I was onto her game but I ceased correspondence shortly after that due to her repeated hard luck stories and her mention of Western Union. Anyway, she sent me an e-mail two days ago describing herself as "the Colombiana you were going to marry" along with her new e-mail address. Therefore be warned there are many like her out there just waiting for a sucker gringo. Anyway, I don't plan on deleting her e-mail address this time. The girl might be a liar and a scammer but she is an exceptionally well put together piece of ass and when I get to Baranquilla I'll tap that ass real good for a fair price.

Sinanju Master
03-07-06, 05:22
Remember, that it's much easier to manipulate appearances and info through the 'net than it is in person. Any woman can sit behind a computer screen and create a persona and keep suckers (whoops! I mean SUITORS) in line to be gutted of their monetary resources. Besides, meeting a woman in person and getting to know her face to face is a bit more reliable and interesting.

Rock Dog
03-07-06, 15:56
All these stories remind me of the very first girl I ever chatted with.

I'd just gotten a membership at this dating site that specialized in african women. One night I logged on thinking that the time zone difference would work to my advantage because everyone else in north america would be asleep.

Boy, was I right! Chat boxes started popping up every couple of seconds. Then one popped up and it had a picture of an extremely beautiful south african girl named XXXXXXX. I checked out her profile before I answered. She looked legit.... no hard luck story, normal sounding self-description with a job.

Well, to make a long story short, in the space of five minutes: she told me she was serious, that she loved me, that if I was serious about her I... should send money for a plane ticket so she could come see me right away.

Needless to say, I didn't. I told her that my policy was not to send large amounts of money over to internet to someone I don't know. The good thing was that it was such a shock, yet very educational. It was the kind of thing that put me on my guard when chatting with anyone else.

Rock

Sinanju Master
03-08-06, 00:34
this broad told you all that within FIVE MINUTES? DAYUM! That's cojones for you! I guess she employs the train of thought used by mass spammers: even a FEW bites out of many thousands of lines tossed is enough to bear fruit enough to continue the operation/scam. Rock, I hope you did like Homey the Clown and smacked her over the head with a sock the minute she tried to unsuccessfully play you for a fool, bro!

Chocha Monger
03-08-06, 01:49
scams are not the only risk when deciding to use the internet to meet women. there is also a large number of mentally ill women online. something about the anonimity of the internet seems to draw females with issues. apparently, the first place that [CodeWord128] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord128) victims, cuckholds, divorced women, post-traumatic stress victims, stalkers, and abandoned single mothers stop on the rebound is an internet dating site.

also, the percentage of males online is much greater than females. it is not unusual for women to receive hundreds of responses from men, providing they have a fairly decent profile, on a monthly basis. when you consider the time it takes to weed through fake profiles it is not worth the effort.

instead of wasting hours online responding to profiles of dubious authenticity, research your destination and go there. you will be meeting women with hours, if not minutes, of your arrival.

Rock Dog
03-08-06, 02:53
Sinj,
Yeah she had some kind of nerve! I actually admired that kind of boldness.... admired, not rewarded, but admired.

Chocha, you are right with your comment. Guys outnumber gals on these sites many to one. There seems to be three main categories of women online: homely ones, picky ones, and women with issues/baggage.

What do these women have in common? To them, the internet represents a kind of lottery. Put up your profile, let a thousand men look at it.... and hopefully one of those thousand will be your dream man, JACKPOT!!

Of course it usually doesn't work that way but that doesn't keep the dreamers from dreaming. That goes for the men out there too. I took a pic off of Hot-or-not dot com one time, and whipped up a phoney profile with it. Not a bad looking girl, early to mid twenties, average build but with tits the size of your head. Needless to say, that profile got over 90 reponses in less than 48 hours. So, for the more attractive women out there, the internet may truly be the jackpot.

What did I learn from this? Well, anytime I see a profile posted by an exceptionally attractive woman, I take it for granted that she will have received at least a hundred other reponses. After awhile, I got experienced enough to tell when they were BS'ing. One good way to tell if a girl has five other guys on the go.......just look at the length of her answers when you're chatting. It shouldn't take 2 or 3 minutes to write a three word reply.

A woman can BS you online, but once you get there the truth will come out. Online dating sites are a pretty good way to set yourself up with someone who can show you around, steer you away from trouble, and maybe give you some genuine non-pro GFE good times.

Rock

Member #1005
03-08-06, 21:46
Wow, I have been following this thread with some interest since its inception; however I do believe that many of the guys who have been adding their contributions are, to say the least, a little confused about this whole subject :-/

There are a number of assumptions around this thread that are simply not correct, which I shall list.


First: That to be foreign you have to be non-white, preferably Asian, African or Latin, because I wonder if you are actually including British, Australian or Canadian women as Foreign Brides?


Second: That only these women who use dating sites lie, that no guy who uses these sites would actually lie, exaggerate or stretch the truth a little? Based on this all guys would describe themselves as wealthy, looking like a cross between George Cloney and Brad Pitt and are all fit and they are all aged well under 40.


Third: All these guys seeking out these fresh 18 year old beauty queens have no problems communicating with women because in my experience if you don’t know how to chat to a woman in your hometown what makes you think that you can travel to the other side of the world and chat to women who’s second language is English?



If the bride is a Thai, her history will be thought of as dubious
I found this comment very amusing as I have a Thai female friend, she is attractive, intelligent has a Doctorate (Phd), she used to live in London for seven years, is director of her families business, drives a Mercedes C Class and travels overseas five times a year, and always makes an annual trip to Osaka, Japan just to buy the latest digital camera and camcorder – why because she can?

Now are you really telling me that this would apply to her if she was to marry some third rate hamburger flipper in Iowa?

Naturally, she is an exception to the rule and I write this more in jest than to be taken too seriously. Like many here I have met some strange girls in my time and one story I will share with you all is back when on AOL they used to offer a free dating site, I once signed up and just put up my details, never my photo, the way I see it if we meet in person it would be a nicer surprise. That I am fit, dress well, have my own teeth and hair (sometimes).

Anyway several girls started corresponding with me and one who described herself as looking like Janet Jackson and Missy Elliot wanted to meet up, so we agreed to meet in an underground station (subway) one Friday night. Phew, when I first met her, I actually walked passed because this girl was ‘big’, in fact when she said she looked like Janet Jackson and Missy Elliot what she meant was she looked like she had just eaten Missy Elliot and Janet Jackson, she was that big. So I went ahead with the meal, after all what harm could it do, - to an eat-all-you-can place with this girl. So we talked but this girl was one of these girls that was a bullshitter because throughout the meal she was one of these people that claimed she had done all these things but had never actually got past the talking stage, when pressed. Was next week going out to do this and that. I asked what her job was and she was between jobs but wanted to do so many things but wasn’t quite sure what exactly she wanted to do.

So time passed slowly, and at 10.30pm I was looking at my watch and now yawning, I paid the bill and tried to get away and she was like: “so what should we do now, let’s hit a club or a bar?” I make an excuse about having to get up early the next morning to work on a Saturday and she comes back with, “on a Friday night she never goes home before 3am at the earliest or her weekend is ruined! Which struck me as odd for someone on the dole. So we walked about London for a while with her trying to get me into a bar for a quick drink, fortunately, on a Friday night in London at nearly 11pm many of the popular bars are jammed packed & busy and there were queues outside.

I make my way back to my car and then she comes up with this idea of just going to an off licence (liquor store) buying some drink and going back to my place. Naturally, I declined her offer. Then I offered to take her home and she claimed that she couldn’t go back home now because her flat mate was out, with the only key and would not be back until 4-5am(?) So I am trying to get rid of her politely, we are driving around and she asks where I live, because she claims she has a friend who she can visit nearby, as we pass my house, she then claims she needs to use the toilet and is going to wet herself in my car if she cannot use the loo, as she is bursting.

Once in my place she comes out of the bathroom and into my living room and is kicking off her shoes and making herself at home. Then she is trying to make small talk asking me how many girls I have had in my bed room and wants to see my bed, dropping hints as big as a mountain, but fortunately one of my crazy arsed friends had spotted me coming in to my house and knocks on the door at now 12.40am to ask me: “what are you doing?” I use this as a pretext to get rid of this girl, by making out that I am involved with some nefarious activity and offer to drop her off to one of her friends, close by to where I live and her parting words were something to the effect of: “we can meet up tomorrow night if you want?”

So I hope when people ask why I enjoy paying some girl 1000 Pesos, 500 Reias or 2,000 Baht and have someone come into my room fucks my brains out and then once paid, walks out the door never to be seen again, unless I really want to see them, against one of these schizophrenic girl.

I know some of you are saying why didn’t you just tap that big ass? Well, the reason is many years ago my friend did just that and the following week this girl turns up back at his door with her suitcase and claims she is pregnant and has been kicked out of her home, and is also ill with morning sickness, yes in less than a week. She claimed to be pregnant for 20 months until she eventually had his child and by the way she was not working either. But was taking out loans in his place until eventually the debts built up bigger than the both of them.

So the moral of this story is there is no such thing as free and easy pussy, unless you really are Brad Pitt or George Cloney, but only just.

Bart9000
03-09-06, 01:54
Hi Juniour,

A couple of things-real quick...I need to get some work done:

1. Most important-ignore owna94ford. He is a delusional babbling moron (I can show you examples) that has in another identity been confined to his own thread-we are hoping that Jackson will shortly take all of his ID's and ban him from the site.

2. You have a point about the semantics of "foreign women". Perhaps a better expression would be "non-western women", which would exclude the countries you mentioned. The primary areas of interest to most of the guys on this board are Eastern Europe, Latin America, and Asia.

3. A lot of discussion preceded what you see on this thread. Most of the guys here in the last week or so are regular contributors to the American Women board. I assure you that no one believes that in say your example, an upper class 22 year old Japanese "Princess" will be had by some 54 year old obese slob who flips burgers for a living, just because he is from the US. It is however viable for an AVERAGE western guy to get a relatively young, attractive wife (who doesn't have her brain poisoned by feminism, materialism and puritanism-at least to start with) from the places mentioned above.

4. Communication-I can only speak from my own experiences. I barely get any attention in the US as a mid-30ish, severely underemployed guy with thinning hair, and a beer belly. My last trip to Prague, I had a hot very young girl from a former Soviet State all over me in a bar (kept rubbing my beer belly and saying "Is what man should look like). I have to shamefully admit that I ran out of cash that night, and she actually spent more money than I did, so obviously she wasn't just soaking me for drinks.

B9K

Rock Dog
03-09-06, 03:19
i got this from a dating site. this is pertaining to that new law that just went into effect....... here's what they had to say about it:




join an international dating service and soon a new law will require a comprehensive police background check on you.
want to say hi on the internet to a girl who lives outside the usa? good luck.
you have to prove to her first in writing that you are not a murderer, [CodeWord126] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126), sexual abuser, trafficker, kidnapper, spousal abuser, drug user, abducter , stalker, dui, or criminal of any other like crime. you will also have to state if you have ever procured prostitutes. if you have ever been arrested for controlled substances or alcohol.

you will have to state if you are currently married and your marital history and how man times you have been married. the date and how previous marriages were terminated and the ages of any childen you have that are under 18 years old. you will have to list all states and countries in which the united states you have resided since your children were 18 years of age.

the law requires us to do national public database search on you.
you can be a doctor, a mayor, an architect, police officer, soldier or just a nice guy who works for fedex or walmart.

it does not matter, you are guilty first.

you will have to prove your innocence before you can even say: hi! i 'm bob

who's great idea is this?

your own government.

it will not only deny american men of their constituional right of free speech, it implies that you are guilty before you are innocent.

it assumes all american men are monsters. it's bad pr for our country.

we can't even be trusted to send an email in the internet age.

meanwhile, everyone in the whole wide world are sending emails.

how can we get on our high horse and tell other countries how to behave like a free societies? if we assume half our population are criminals.

this law will require all our guys to be padded down, stripped searched, interrogated and humiliated before they participate in an international dating site. imagine that thought. you will have submit a written criminal background check before you can say a hi to a girl.

she will look at your history and reply in writing to the agency. only then will you be able to say hi.

science fiction? no. america.



how did this law happen?

two shock cases about 5 years ago, where sick american men killed their ukranian and russian wives in the state of washington has prompted senators maria cantwell and senator patty murray, from that state to write a law designed to put the international dating industry out of business.

( maria and patty... women's names no surprise there. rock)

they do not like what we are doing. they want us to go away.

it's a book burner mentality. if you do not like the content. burn the book.

their law even has a misleading name:

"international marriage broker regulation act of 2005", h.r. 3402, public law no. 109-162, title viii, subtitle d.

i have been aware that this bill was coming. recently, i had systematically called and emailed many senators and congressman offices before the bill was passed. they office reply was " no one ever heard of this bill / law ".
with one exception was not able to speak to anyone except a staff assistant.

my lobbying effort had no effect.

for a period of about 2 years, sen. maria cantwell's bill was not able to get through on it's own.

so in sneaky way , they attached it to a good bill : vawa.

they knew vawa was certain to pass.

they wrote the law in a misleading and confusing way that praises their view and demonized and distorts us. in fact, they never called anyone from our side to get our view. there were no hearings. nothing. in a cowardly fashion, they rammed the law through on a weekend session before christmas with just a voice vote.

to our knowledge, very few legislators really know about this bill.

if they understood the full consequences, i feel many would not have been signed it.

yet, the president signed the bill on january 5th. 2006. now it is law.




so there you have it, the culprits stand revealed. as i suspected, women were behind it. i quote from a recent post of mine......
[i suspected the same thing regarding the origin of this law. there's probably some women's group or a couple of politicians wives who suggested it in the first place. ]

turns out that the women are the politicians. it also turns out that they were willing to do whatever it took to try and put internet dating agencies out of business.

comments?

rock

Misinformation
03-09-06, 12:13
I have been reading these sites for the better part of 10 years and this is the best I have ever seen. I am printing it and framing it on my wall to remind me not to do something stupid. This poster should be given an award.


Marriage should be treated as the business arrangement that it really is whether or not one is marrying a foreign or local woman. In other words don't gamble everything that you've work hard for on the chance of finding the right or wrong woman. Would you gamble everything that you own to the flip of a coin? Probably not, so why do it when it comes to marriage? Get asset protection, have a secret stash and insure yourself against the worst possible outcome imaginable.

Women keep secret stashes all the time. Many who work allow their clueless husbands to spend heavily on the house, car, furniture and utilities while they squirrel away their earnings in an individual account. You'd be amazed at how many guys who leave themselves wide open to being cleaned out in the pre-divorce action and are unable to even hire a good lawyer. Women are experts at launching pre-emptive strikes on joint accounts and running up credit cards to the max before guys can even figure out what's hitting them.

Believe it or not, a woman does not need to know everything about you. Sharing secrets might sound romantic but it can come right back and bite you in the ass. If you've ever done anything that you don't want the IRS, the cops or your employer to know about you'd better be prepared to take it with you to the grave because in the event of a divorce everything is fair game. Don't rule out being accused of domestic violence, cruelty, harassment, fraud, child molestation, etc. If she has a really sleazy lawyer and she wants to wage a dirty war you may just find yourself in court gasping at the allegations against you.

If you are an older guy with a taste for just legal pussy and you just can't help blurting out about that account that you have in the Cayman Islands when your dick gets a taste of heaven, then maybe marriage is not for you. When marrying a woman that is considerably younger than you consider it a two year deal where she gets her green card in return for providing you with young pussy. If she sticks around after that and turns out to be a good wife then that's icing on the cake.

Bart9000
03-09-06, 18:39
Fascism...it's coming. And the way it looks, it will be sheperded in by American Women mostly in the name of protecting the innocent and defenseless.

Look at the bright side about the de facto loss of the marriage agencies-they are a reduction in competition for non-western women.

OwnaFord1994
03-09-06, 20:35
Juniour, be careful if you boils down everything at the end to promoting prostitution, they will accuse you of being another James, or are you?

Foreign is very simple, foreign to the poster, so one doesn't have to make troublesome definitions such as Western woman. What foreign women offer to these guys is claimed to be "relatively young, attractive wife, who doesn't have her brain poisoned by feminism, materialism and puritanism-at least to start with". So Japan and many Asian countries are excluded as foreign women, but they are not in any way Western.

But foreign women actually offers "attention to a mid-30ish, severely underemployed guy with thinning hair, and a beer belly", where no native women would do.

The two definitions, from the same horse's mouth, are contradicting. I'm sure in those foreign countries, they are not short of middle-aged, broke guys with a beer belly. So what's the difference between these guys with a beer belly? Those got attention are those who can offer material gains - and it's well known that just a visa or social welfare is sufficient.

I have a solid prove that talking to Bart is not fruitful as he doesn't read other's posts. Juniour's Thai friend turned Japanese in Bart's post.

I'm not sure Juniour finished reading my post. I was sowing the seed in these guys' mind that all 'foreign bride' are dubious, from Asia, Eastern European to USA. I started with as Thailand because it's easy. It's well documented in this forum that she's on many guys' top of the list for sex tourism. Prostitution is more acceptable as a form of occupation to feed the family compared to other cultures. There is a thriving sex industry and there must be hookers. Indeed many dating sites are lurking with hookers offering service openly.

If Juniour's Thai friend come to USA, she will look like a hooker indeed, as the first thing a hooker will want is a MBZ, and expensive gadgets. Of course she will also look like a woman with a rich family or husband, or a successful woman - they all look the same here.

Mahku
03-09-06, 21:50
Apparently a judge in Atlanta has issued a temporary restraining order on this ridiculous law. Apparently it's so full of constitutional holes and so biased towards the big companies that even a junior law clerk could take it to court and get it thrown out.

Bart9000
03-10-06, 02:14
I was considering contacting the ACLU.

B9K

Rock Dog
03-10-06, 21:59
Wouldn't it have made a lot more sense to do all the security checks/paperwork/info/clearances AFTER the guy has made contact with his prospective dream-girl?

Just make it a conditional requirement for being able to bring her over to the US. I don't know a lot about US immigration law, but it seems like this would be a much easier way to do things.

Of course, that is just the point. This law was cooked up by a couple of bitter, hardened, old cunts who DON'T want it to be easy. They deliberately structured things so that there'd be insurmountable obstacles for guys like us.

I'm GLAD to hear that this law may not stand up to a challenge!

Rock

Rock Dog
03-12-06, 18:53
This is an update from the same site that I quoted in a recent report.

In closing, there is an easy way to correct this horrible and un- american law.
Have the man present his past history in writing to the lady at the Visa application stage and not at the Hello stage. Before she comes here, she can see who the man is and then decided for herself.

American men will not have their constitutional rights violated. International dating services can continue their good work. Legislators can accomplish the exact same level of disclosure and protection for women.

One final thought, there is a about a 52% divorce rate here in the US between American men and American women. That is a statistic of epidemic proportions. If 10,000 American men want to marry foreign women each year from international dating services , let them.

In fact, we should encourage it. Given our track record here at home, maybe we can learn sometime to make our society better.


Couldn't have said it better myself.
Rock

George90
03-13-06, 03:07
Just make it a conditional requirement for being able to bring her over to the US. I don't know a lot about US immigration law, but it seems like this would be a much easier way to do things.

Rock

Rockdog,

The IMBRA section of the Violence Against Women Act is pretty long. It covers several issues, only one of which is the dating of foreign women. Another section relates to limitations on the use of the K-1 visa (for fiancees). Under this law, a US man DOES have to provide all of the criminal background stuff to the INS when he petitions for the visa. In addition, he is only allowed 1 K-1 visa petition every 2 years. I think there is a wait of 5 years if he used the K-1 petition before and later divorced the foreign lady.

Rock Dog
03-13-06, 15:59
George90,

So the question would be..... why the need for supplying all that info UP FRONT, when it's going to get looked at during the visa application process?

It doesn't seem to make any sense at first..... until one realizes that the authors of this law are WOMEN. Two nasty women from Washington who, deep in their hearts, got tired of seeing the local guys having a great old time with all the hot young foreign girls they were bringing over.

Here are the faces of the two middle-aged white women who tried to do this.

Rock

Chocha Monger
03-15-06, 02:39
I have little sympathy for the marriage agencies. They were not exactly well behaved in the past. Typical advertising fare on their web-sites and magazine ads ranged from a 350 lbs guy, or a 65 yrs old geriatric leering at a hot 18 yrs old foreign model to inflammatory macho insults against American women. Testimonials lauded the submissiveness of foreign women, their sexuality, and their hard work ethic. Guys on the web-pages and the glossy back pages of porn magazines crowed about the fact that they were bedding down each night with a woman 20 to 30 yrs younger. They stated how glad they were to be rid of their middle-aged wives who were cold and frigid. As a result of this sort of publicity international marriage brokers came to be associated with a certain kind of sleaziness.

Many agencies claimed to conduct background checks on the women signed up for their service, but did not in fact do so. A great number of the women on their sites were actually prostitutes, con artists, or hardcore visa hunters. There was very little truth in their advertising. They promoted foreign women as servile, docile, shy and existing only to please their husbands. I have traveled extensively, and I have never found this to be an accurate description of foreign women in general. It is true that most non-Western women are not hateful towards men as is often the case in the US, but they still have their own opinions desires and dreams. Hence, I can imagine Bubba’s surprise when a foreign female with her own mind shows up on his farm in Iowa.

The misinformation and misdirection did not stop with man anxiously awaiting his loyal foreign bride back in the US. The agencies marketed American men on the major selling point that marrying one was the key to getting a green card to enter the US. They furthered Hollywood’s impression that all American men are wealthy, drive nice cars, live in mansions, and are conveniently de-balled to allow their women to rule the roost. Imagine Natasha’s surprise when she arrives at Goober’s single-wide trailer in his beat up 1976 Chevy pick-up, and discovers that his word is law.

Therefore, you have two people meeting each other with their own pre-conceived notions about what to expect and their own agendas for entering the marriage. Doesn’t this look like a situation where things can get ugly really quick? Natasha meets a local banker and decides to bolt, and Goober by golly, he paid for her come over to the US and he ain’t going to take that lying down.

The agencies could have helped avoid this mess by being a being more truthful and realistic in their presentation, but when you get good old capitalism involved the main goal is making a profit, often at the expense of the individual. Now, the agencies are all pissing and moaning. Their profits are in danger of being dried up, but don’t waste your tears on them. They have had their fun.

On the other hand, the real target of the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act is not the marriage agencies. The real target is the American man who dares to pass up American women in favor of a foreign bride. The women who wrote this law were very clever, and took great pains to conceal the true purpose of the law. They wrote the law in gender neutral language and gave it a misleading name. The law places restrictions upon individual US citizens and penalizes them for divorcing foreign spouses. Limiting the amount of fiancé visas to one every two years seems to have more of a purpose in limiting the number of foreign women a man can date and bring into the country than providing any sort of protection against abuse for the woman. It would appear that this is a form of legislated monogamy designed to prevent American men from serially dating foreign women and bringing them into the country for 3 months at a time without marrying one right away. No sampling various offers before making a decision.

IMBRA, also requires that the man provide his marital history and information on all children under the age of 18 yrs old. I can’t see what purpose this serves in protecting a woman from abuse, but I can see it helping the woman to decide whether the man is a good financial prospect or not. The duration of pass marriages and the presence of children under 18 yrs old can all help to indicate the payment of alimony and child support. If the law primary concern is protecting women from abuse then why doesn’t it limit the background check to domestic violence and felony convictions?

I maintain that marrying in the USA is a bad idea whether the woman is foreign or not, therefore this law does mean much to me as an individual. However, this law creates a dangerous precedent for American males as a demographic group. If it is allowed to stand then it can be used as a basis for American women to demand that men turn over their personal history before the start of a relationship. How many of you want to turn over a dossier of your personal history and information to a strange woman and be judged on it with no chance for rebuttal? It’s bad enough that most American women believe that a man relinquishes all his rights to privacy upon marriage, having it written into law would be even more outrageous.

OwnaFord1994
03-15-06, 02:50
There's no surprise that somebodies attempt to pass these laws. Don't flame me but look at someone who claimed they are less than successful and less than good looking, who are looking to have a better chance abroad. If these guys want to have kids, the chance that they have a daughter about 50%. These girls really need some protection from foreign competition - not much good looking genes and not much inheritance.

Rock Dog
03-15-06, 03:05
Chocha,

A while back, I wrote a post regarding the tactics that these feminazis are using to get their own way. Tactics are as follows:

ID your target..... pick an easy target, so that there's no chance of losing.

If there IS a chance of losing, wait for the right time, or spend some time bad-mouthing the target, putting some "spin" into effect with the goal of making it hard for people to defend the target.

Use legislation, regulation etc. to enforce compliance.

Let's apply this to what happened.
The target.... guys who want to bring foreign women into the country as potential wives.

Not an undefensible target, there's a danger of resistance.... especially from men. Soooo, put a spin on things.... say you're doing it to protect women from violence. AHA, a lofty, noble goal.... who could argue against that?

Next, let's find a sneaky way to slip it into the law books...... do it in such a way as to minimize the chance of resistance. The following quote tells how this went down.

For a period of about 2 years, Sen. Maria Cantwell's bill was not able to get through on it's own. So in a sneaky way , they attached it to a good bill : VAWA. They knew VAWA was certain to pass. They wrote the law in a misleading and confusing way that praises their view and demonized and distorts us. In fact, they never called anyone from our side to get our view. There were no hearings. Nothing. In a cowardly fashion, they rammed the law through on a weekend session before Christmas with just a voice vote. To our knowledge, very few legislators really know about this bill. If they understood the full consequences, I feel many would NOT have been signed it.

Ahhhh female politicians..... I'm so SURE they have our best interests at
heart.

The good news is that this law probably won't stand up to a serious challenge. Even if it does, I've got a feeling that it's going to be hard to enforce.

Rock

George90
03-15-06, 21:41
I have little sympathy for the marriage agencies. They were not exactly well behaved in the past.

CM,

I agree that *SOME* agencies are unethical. I strongly disagree that most are unethical. Most agencies are small family-owned enterprises that serve other family members and friends. They are specific to a small country or region within a large country. The large multi-country marriage agencies such as A Foriegn Affair, Latin Euro, and Hearts of Asia, *MAY* have some unethical ladies in their profiles and have some unethical men in their clientele. I doubt that these agencies are run with the specifc intent to mislead and defraud men and women.

There are forums where men looking for foriegn women to marry discuss these types of issues. Agency owners are allowed to participate, so their point of view is expressed. Most of those owners have come across as sincere and honest. Only 2 owners in Colombia were consistently considered to be intentionally ripping off customers, and even they had their supporters. I heard of a Brazilian agency catering to Germans that the owner ran like a brothel.

Rock Dog
03-16-06, 02:36
What do you expect?

Take a couple of hundred women from ANYwhere and I guarantee you will find a few scammers in the group. you can't blame that on the agency.

The best policy is to keep your eyes open and always maintain a healthy level of suspicion about ANY woman wherever you are. That being said, at some point you have to open up and take a chance sooner or later.

BTW, what was the name of that Brazilian agency.... sounds like my kind of place!

Rock

Chocha Monger
03-16-06, 04:12
I am sure that there are some agencies that run an above board operation. However, if you read the notes from the hearing proposing the passage of the IMBRA, you will see that they used a few examples of the most atrocious acts committed by the agencies and their clients. Unfortunately, in US politics all it takes is a few sensational examples of women being abused or taken advantage of to pass blanket legislation affecting all men. If you have any doubt about this take a look at our domestic violence and sexual harassment laws. All it takes is a woman's allegation that you said or did something and that is enough to get the ball rolling on you. These laws punish men immediately while the legal process slowly grinds along before finally arriving at a determination of guilt or innocence.

Perhaps, IMBRA can be amended and made into a good law which protects both parties. It can help deter visa hunters seeking to marry American men solely for economic and immigration benefits, and it can keep the psycho men in our society from procuring foreign women for unnatural purposes. Also, it can help shut one of the loopholes used by organized criminal gangs engaged in the trafficking of humans. Surely, no one wants an unsuspecting foreign woman to end up married to someone like James D 2004. Someone who has never had a girlfriend or a normal relationship and passes his days antagonizing strangers on the internet. IMBRA will keep Israeli women safe from scary guys like that.

Another point of interest is that all the cases presented in favor of IMBRA involved women depicted as victims. What happened to all the cases where the women disappeared as soon as they got their green cards, cleared the immigration section at the airport or within a few days of arriving at their husband's residence? Are we to really believe that no American women used threats of deportation against their foreign husbands? I have actually heard an American woman use that threat against the undocumented Mexican father of her illegitimate child.

Granola Boy
03-16-06, 11:09
I travelled throughout Europe last year for vacation. I was in Budapest for only one night when I had two experiences in a bar: one was seeing gypsies try to con a guy and one was myself having a chat with a young Hungarian woman.

I'm in my late 20s/early 30s and fairly fit, but I'm of Asian descent, so wherever I go, I don't get the same attention as most of you guys I think might get (white, etc. etc.). I usually either get ignored or people aren't sure how to approach me.

The guy getting questioned by the gypsy woman actually had a guy nearby her writing down information! I have no idea what that was about, but I think they tried to get him to go with her. It was strange and almost scary because of the guy she was with.

My experience involved chatting with this Hungarian girl. She was attractive. I wouldn't say she was a stunner, but seemed to be a girl with a good heart and head on her shoulders, but attractive also. She told me she'd studied in the US for high school and her undergraduate degree, but came back home to study graduate school. She had no desire to live in the US again, but enjoyed meeting people from other countries. I suppose if she had the financial resources to study in the US as a student, she had no reason to get a green card.

She was a re-affirmation that while there are gold-digging hardcore visa hunting cunts out there, it is possible once in a while to meet someone from "poorer" countries than US, Canada, etc. who's genuine.

By the way, I'd go back there in a heartbeat. Eastern Europe was one of the most enriching experiences I'll ever remember.

Bart9000
03-16-06, 18:36
is not by any stretch of the imagination easy. However, from what I have seen, their society (at least from what I have seen in the Czech Republic)does a pretty good job of keeping a roof over everyone's head, and a reasonable amount of food in everyone's stomach. They may lack big screen TV's and Lazy Boys, but on the other hand, have close social ties. Also, they don't have to work nearly as hard as we do to maintain their standard of living.

My point is that life there isn't so bad...in some ways it is superior to our lifestyle, and consequently, not everyone is dying to move away from their families and all their friends.

George90
03-16-06, 19:11
BTW, what was the name of that Brazilian agency.... sounds like my kind of place!

Rock

I think it is called "Brazil - Exterior" or something close to that. Brazilian women I have spoken with say that the owner, a woman, encourages ladies to ask men to send them money and then makes the ladies give her a 30% cut.

George90
03-16-06, 19:23
I am sure that there are some agencies that run an above board operation. However, if you read the notes from the hearing proposing the passage of the IMBRA, you will see that they used a few examples of the most atrocious acts committed by the agencies and their clients. Unfortunately, in US politics all it takes is a few sensational examples of women being abused or taken advantage of to pass blanket legislation affecting all men. If you have any doubt about this take a look at our domestic violence and sexual harassment laws. All it takes is a woman's allegation that you said or did something and that is enough to get the ball rolling on you. These laws punish men immediately while the legal process slowly grinds along before finally arriving at a determination of guilt or innocence.

CM,

You are preaching to the choir regarding the deficiencies of IMBRA. We men know, often from painful experience, the bias in favor of women regarding some aspects of US society, especially family aspects. We also know that some women will exploit that bias to harm men. It is why many of us are looking abroad for wives.

Rock Dog
03-17-06, 15:49
George90,
when you said the owner ran that agency like a brothel, I thought that meant all the girls were expected to put out! :D

Chocha,
Of COURSE all the women were depicted as victims..... remember this part of the law was cooked up by two women. That's how they work, put a spin on something and make it look so bad that nobody want's to try and defend it.

It's also interesting that absolutely nothing is done with regards to women running off as soon as their immigration is finished. But then, that's the husband's problem..... and not a problem as far as those WOMEN politicians are concerned.

Sometimes you can learn more about someone's up to by what they DON'T do.

Rock

George90
03-17-06, 18:49
George90,
when you said the owner ran that agency like a brothel, I thought that meant all the girls were expected to put out! :D

Rock


Well, they are!!!

What do you think makes the men willing to send the ladies money?!?!?!?!?!?

OwnaFord1994
03-17-06, 19:39
dubious foreign bride (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=441739&postcount=63)

Chocha Monger
03-18-06, 00:31
While attending college many American young women are known to work for escort agencies; engage in casual sex, binge drinking and drug use. Wouldn't that make a college educated American woman a dubious choice for a bride?

See excerpt below from the American Journal of Health Studies:

Human Papillomavirus (HPV) is highly prevalent among young, sexually active adult women (Burak & Meyer, 1998). The level of sexual activity in a given population is a primary determinant of its sexually transmitted disease (STD) infection rate (Vail-Smith & White, 1992). The National Institutes of Health (1996) stated that HPV is transmitted through sexual intercourse, with peak prevalence in women of the 22-25 year age group. While many college students underestimate their risk of contracting various sexually transmitted diseases, HPV has become a common sexually transmitted infection on college campuses. College women have a greater risk of acquiring sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) than the general population because of the high-risk sexual behaviors in which they engaged (Burak & Meyer, 1997). One study round that as many as 60% of college-age women had some form of HPV, which is casually linked to cervical cancer (Alvey, 1995).

While many college women underestimate their risk of contracting various sexually transmitted diseases, HPV has become a common sexually transmitted infection on college campuses. The incidence and problems associated with contracting STD's are of great concern, especially in adolescents and young adults. A recent study showed that 40% of sexually active adolescent women had an STD (CDC, 1999). Each year approximately 3 million new cases of STDs are diagnosed in the U.S. (NIAID, 1999). One reason for file increase of STDs is risky sexual behavior including sexual contact without the use of a condom or barrier. Only 57% of sexually active students reported that they or their partner used condoms during their last sexual intercourse (CDC, 1999). These risky behaviors, a lack of knowledge and lack of preventive care including a pap test are leading to the high incidence of HPV among college women.

OwnaFord1994
03-18-06, 19:37
I'm so sorry for you Chocha, you are completely screwed at all sides. How about DIY HJ?

Luckily, I live in Downing st (#10). European health care and sex education are superior. Homework often starts at 12.

Sinanju Master
03-19-06, 00:34
OwnaPinto (or shall I say James D with the '04 IQ?) has so many lies out there that he can't remember them all and keept them straight.

Chocha Monger
03-19-06, 02:28
Ownaford,

I wouldn't be doing any DIY HJs because I wasn't the one complaining about the "dubious" origin of foreign brides, it was you! Therefore while you're busy gooing up your keyboard with spunk, I'll be blowing my load in a horny Arab chick's mouth. Have fun beating off at #10 Down's syndrome.

OwnaFord1994
03-19-06, 17:57
Which other post did I say where I live?

When did I say I want to marry a foreign woman?

Choca, your dirty mouth failed you any chance of meeting clean honorable women.

Sinanju Master
03-19-06, 18:15
Luckily, I live in Downing st (#10). European health care and sex education are superior. Homework often starts at 12.

Ooops! It seems I caught the stupid ******* in a blatant LIE! Now, everyone, sit back with your popcorn and Coke and watch this fucking weasel try to spin his way out of a quote of his own words!

Chocha Monger
03-19-06, 21:52
Ownaford,

You have been condemned by your own lies. Your own words betray you. Your arrogance, hipocrisy, dishonesty and cravenness are true testaments to your nature.

You speak about exploding your DNA into the mouth of a white EE girl who takes it to the bathroom (apparently to vomit), but you think when an American talks about unloading his glorious hot spunk into an Arab woman's mouth that he has a "dirty mouth" and the woman is not honorable. Yet, you speak of trolling the streets of London in search of white prostitutes.

You provide no useful information here or contribute to any constructive debate. The only thing that you do is quote words taken out of context from the posts of other members and twist their meaning in an attempt to harass other members of the forum. According to your last post you have no interest in marrying a foreign bride, so why are you posting on a subject that you have no interest in? Why are you denigrating foreign women when you are not North American, or even British for that matter? I will tell you why, it is because you are a pathetic little troll who craves attention.

You seek to degrade the very women that you lust after. You have no problem enjoying them as prostitutes but you have a problem with men marrying someone from their countries of origin. What is your position Ownaford? You have no position on any topic because your sole aim in life is to inflame conflict and sow dissent on internet forums. During the last discussion on inter-racial relationships you ejaculated in your trousers out of sheer excitement because you thought the forum would be torn apart.

Ownaford, if you do not get help for your sociopathic affliction you will never become a productive member of society and you will be doomed to trolling the photo galleries of internet sex sites while you masturbate onto your keyboard.

Bart9000
03-20-06, 06:02
....old james reminds me of the kind of guy who will fight to the death (online or in real life) to defend his favorite stripper.........while he is completely oblivious that the girl actually can't stand him, and laughs her head off about emptying his pockets as soon as his back is turned..

B9K

OwnaFord1994
03-20-06, 10:05
SinMaster, the Turing test tells if you are talking to a robot. My beta Ape test tells that an ape has no sense of humour, will only know about the geography of his immediate surroundings, and will try to track down his opponent in additional to staring down at the monitor.

Sinanju Master
03-20-06, 10:52
OwnaPinto must be running out of snappy comebacks, 'cos that last post of his had NO bite to it... more of a harmless bark. Could be that he's nearing the end of his desire to babble nonsense and criticize other posters without making useful contribution. Heheheheh! Keep up the good work, Bart and CM!

George90
03-20-06, 12:55
Can we get back to the proper theme of this thread, Marrying Foreign Women, PLEASE??!!??!!

Take your bickering private if you have nothing better to do in life!

Bart9000
03-20-06, 22:56
(should anyone not be aware)is a 'throwaway' ID for James D 2004, a troll on the American Women board, who has recently been confined to his own thread as a serial antagonist. He is noted for his random non-sensical off topic babbling. He appearently believes that we are not smart enough to realize that this is him. I have previously estimated his IQ to be somewhere around 85.

Notice right now that he is attempting to "change the subject" (note the completely out of left field crack about Thai brides) from "marrying foreign women" to prostitutes, which he will begin to babble about. He appearently feels the need to post on an opinion thread about this subject, despite having the whole rest of the site devoted to that topic. Very probably, he is posting on an opinion thread about these things, because if he were to put his delusional fantasies on a geographically specific thread, his feet would be held to the fires of reality, and he would probably be immediately banned for dissemenating false information.


Also, in that he has (as pointed out by another member), absolutely no perspective on the subject of women in any context except for direct cash remuneration for sex-in other words, he has never ever had a girlfriend.


George,

If you want to complain about off topic, the quoted post is the point where I stopped dumbshit from hijacking this forum to begin pointlessly, at great length babbling about ridiculous things like cleaning up a junkie streetwalker, taking her in for plastic surgery so she is "not recognizeable to her former life", and then having her be your woman. Don't believe me? I'll be glad to show you the post. Also, I will gladly show you the post which preceded this one.

B9K

Bigdan
03-21-06, 18:34
Calm down guys! Marrying a foreign women is a good thing that can happen. Especialy if she is Eastern European

George90
03-21-06, 19:48
George,

If you want to complain about off topic, the quoted post is the point where I stopped dumbshit from hijacking this forum to begin pointlessly, at great length babbling about ridiculous things like cleaning up a junkie streetwalker, taking her in for plastic surgery so she is "not recognizeable to her former life", and then having her be your woman. Don't believe me? I'll be glad to show you the post. Also, I will gladly show you the post which preceded this one.

B9K

No need, Bart. I just read on the American Woman thread that Jackson has contained Ownaford to his own thread. I think that is a good move. It was done with someone named Nibu Raphael and I think with Arecho Monger.

I skip over the posts from those types of guys. But when multiple pages of entire threads are filled with rants, it defeats the purpose of the forum.

Rock Dog
03-22-06, 02:46
Gentlemen,

Let's not congratulate ourselves TOO much. This JD/ownaford character has shown us that he's willing to use multiple ID's to circumvent the restrictions placed on him by Jackson. It shouldn't be surprising if he tries the same tactic again.

I'd be extra suspicious of any new-to-forum posters who submit poorly written, crappy reports at any time in the next few weeks. Remember, this guy has an almost pathological need for attention. He WILL try again.

Rock

Sinanju Master
03-22-06, 03:02
the good thing is that many of us have enough experience with said shithead to almost instantly recognize his (written) speech pattern, and pounce on him right then and there. it's the amount of time from exposure to extermination that is frustrating.

Bart9000
03-23-06, 03:59
Kidddyfucker will likely be back before too long. I was kind of shocked to see that no unused for the last year ID has shown up saying "hey, I just found these threads, by the way, you are big losers for planning to marry foreign women, not a big stud like me who pays hard cash to nail teenage runaways with my very small penis"

I hope at least that we got all of his senior member ID's. Having all of his posts reviewed by Jackson will have to take the wind out of his sails.

B9K

Chocha Monger
03-23-06, 04:37
He has gone into hiding in his troll hole. Obviously, he is terrified that the Feds will catch up with him and throw him in the pen; where the Orange County convicts will pack his fudge like none other.

Rock Dog
03-25-06, 06:18
i see two possibilities regarding jd/ford,

one, he is and has been full of crap.... all talk and no action. in which case, no big deal.

two, he likes his apples green (if you know what i mean). mainly because he has absolutely no chance with women his age or a bit younger.

if it is the second scenario, he'll run into trouble sooner or later. if he gets caught with any kind of kp on his computer, he'll be finished at his job, he will become a social outcast (probably already there) and yes, he'll learn what it's like to get his [CodeWord116] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord116) pushed in.

i for one, hope that he's done for good. here's looking forwards to not having to discuss this guy anymore.

rock

Bart9000
03-28-06, 05:03
ownajdpinto is full of shit...in his delusional willfully ignorant perception of reality.

i have been to the isg and seen his pictures. he is fucking young streetwalkers (no doubt in my mind that some are **** teen runaways), and taking their pictures.

both of these are subject to nasty social penalties-i can assure you it would break my heart to find that he gets caught patronizing a 15 year old prostitute, has his 78 pinto confirep001ed, and consequently his stash of de facto kiddie porn results in prosecution.

hopefully he just goes away and stays there.

b9k

DirkDingy
03-28-06, 06:34
i’m not sticking up for him per se, but see no bonafide reason for the grudges that many of you seemingly hold against him. something is surely amiss with this fellow, but if he is able to extract something of redemption from posting his rants on this board then so be it—it’s obviously quite important to him and plays an (apparently) significant role in his life. what do you all gain from depriving him of this pleasure? he likely has adjustment problems and god forbid that a physical impairment or mental handicap keeps him from establishing meaningful relationships. if you don’t want to read his incoherent missives then add him to your ignore list….everyone wins in that situation. there is really no need for “cyber-bullying.”

da, james is nuts, but i think that many of you are nuts too when you think that going abroad will be a panacea to all your pussy woes; i don’t know which fantasy is more far-fetched to be blunt.

if jd is a **** then that’s horrible—but prostitution as a whole is a terrible and exploitive business…shit, even dating in anyplace but the west is an exploitive endeavor.

i’m hardly mr. morals, but i often find myself distraught after a night with a prostitute in ee—they usually open up to me and i don’t like what i hear. almost universally, these girls have had really tough lives, hate their jobs, and are subject to abuse beyond most western imagination. every day i wake up i thank the lord that i’m an american.

Sinanju Master
03-28-06, 11:04
Da, James is nuts, but I think that many of you are nuts too when you think that going abroad will be a panacea to all your pussy woes; I don’t know which fantasy is more far-fetched to be blunt.

Please show me evidence where I personally said going abroad is a panacea to pusy woes. I may have said that it is EASIER than trying to get laid in the US, but I NEVER once recall having referred to it as a silver bullet.


shit, even dating in anyplace but the West is an exploitive endeavor. and yet you engage in the same activity as we do


I’m hardly Mr. Morals, but I often find myself distraught after a night with a prostitute in EE—they usually open up to me and I don’t like what I hear. Almost universally, these girls have had really tough lives, hate their jobs, and are subject to abuse beyond most Western imagination. Every day I wake up I thank the lord that I’m an American.
Then why do you subject yourself to such mental masochism? To wrap it up, if the guys wanna dance on the ashes of JD's "expulsion", so be it. I got it out of my own system after a few of posts and yes, it felt good, but if that bothers you so much, why not ignore said posts and move on? Dude, I'm not bashing you, but these are your own words.

DirkDingy
03-28-06, 12:32
1. did I mention your moniker in any of my posts? If not, then I was not referring to you. It’s like me going into a crowded room and saying “hay asshole” and you asking me why I called you an asshole….if you insist…But the gist of the am and mfw thread is: i am too broke, ugly, or socially inept to pull American woman so I will head abroad where I will no longer be viewed as broke, it doesn’t matter if I’m ugly, and they won’t notice that I’m a wanker. There is also outrage expressed that an aw wants...gasp…gasp…. a stable man who can provide for her and any offspring that occur. I can’t fathom why a woman wouldn’t want to fuck a broke fat man can you?

2. yes, but not really. Many, but not all, of my ee dates are either moneyed or western expats—particulary from Texas and the Netherlands. I don’t date date poor girls for more than a few weeks. I do have a current native ee girl—perhaps my future wife-- but she does quite well for herself and doesn’t really like America as she considers it unrefined and dull—she worked there as a model and currently works ee hubs to ny and dc —or Americans whom she mostly considers to be uncultured fucktards. She already has a work visa for the States and about a month ago SHE took ME to Rome for weekend…I spent no money save a few meals.. hardly exploitive in your mind. She could find a lot fatter cats than I to bed down with if that were her intentions.

3. don’t assume too much homie. While 70-85% of EEs are really broke, there are still quite a few that are loaded because of daddy or well off because they work for international companies or organizations. a woman on arbat ave once offered me money for a sex act out of the blue.

4. I never said I am opposed to exploitation....in theory yes, but... My employer exploits me daily. I save them and their clients millions a year yet I am not even a member of the six figure club. Furthermore, it’s not illogical to say stealing is wrong and still cheat on your taxes a lil bit.


5. re the exploitation of hoez by using them: yea, I do that…too much…if I could find a trusted shrink I’d ask him why I continually fuck hoez when I have a voluminous stable of readily available freebees who look much better than most of my hoez. I’ll tell ya what’s really fucked up … nothing excites me more than to get in a car fuckin pissed in some second or third world shithole and search for streetwalkers. ..I snuck outta the greezone in Baghdad, solo, with only a sidearm and a frag in my pants, and found two bitches to bang with no real Iraqi connections. And it’s not like I wasn’t fucking this aussie capt regularly along with my Iraqi staff.

6. re why don’t I ignore the others dancing on james grave? I should have been clearer. I was writing about using the ignore option. If I added most of those mentioned to my ignore list I would be bored….i would see nary a post.

7. not an analogous comparison anyway: I posit that some of what you all say interests me while those that I initially referred to declared that james’s babbles are all bs and have no value. Thus by ignoring him you lose nothing and he gains satisfaction; by ignoring those that I referred to I would lose something.

One should never hesitate to contribute to the well being of another if one sacrifices nothing in doing so.

Doctor_Skank
03-28-06, 13:11
DD:

"…if I could find a trusted shrink I’d ask him why I continually fuck hoez when I have a voluminous stable of readily available freebees who look much better than most of my hoez. "

Thats the EE curse and I have yet to find the cure. If the cure is marriage, and I doubt it is, I'll continue to let my affliction guide me through the night. So far it has always brought me luck... knock on wood.

I think it's because a certain breed of men, of which many mongers adhere, are hunters in search and in need of "strange". There is nothing like banging a girl for the first time, ho or otherwise.

I think the only way to stay faithful to an EE girl is to leave EE.

BTW: "doesn’t really like America as she considers it unrefined and dull"... the higher class the EE girl is, usually the less she thinks of America as, unlike most EE girls who dig America, she's actually been there. You can find EE girls who think Hollywood America is great, but generally speaking they are fairly ignorant on what America is actually like.

Generally speaking, EE girls are increasingly more keen on Europe than the US and considering the way things are going in the US, I can't blame them. We are definitely losing the propaganda war and EEs feel closer culturally to Europe than they do to an America which is doing everything it can to alienate itself from the rest of the world.

DirkDingy
03-28-06, 14:11
BTW: "doesn’t really like America as she considers it unrefined and dull"... the higher class the EE girl is, usually the less she thinks of America as, unlike most EE girls who dig America, she's actually been there. You can find EE girls who think Hollywood America is great, but generally speaking they are fairly ignorant on what America is actually like.

Generally speaking, EE girls are increasingly more keen on Europe than the US and considering the way things are going in the US, I can't blame them. We are definitely losing the propaganda war and EEs feel closer culturally to Europe than they do to an America which is doing everything it can to alienate itself from the rest of the world.

I'm sorry but I can't keep a straight face when I hear a Macedonian boast about Alexander the Great, a Kosovar brag about the Battle of Skendar, or a Froggie sneer about the superiority of Euro culture. Rome was sacked a while ago, Napolean was erased by Wellington, the Austro-Hungarian Empire is no more, and the once glorious Turkish empire is reduced to begging for EU membership when its clear that they are not wanted. And the attitude of upper class Ruskies...Don't get me started....they were all iliterate slaves (serfs officailly, but slaves functionally) until years into the 20th Century. The Russians had so little respect for their own culture that their own king and queen refused to speak his own tongue at their own court. Honestly, I think that flushing toillets came to EE only in the last 1/2 century.

While Americans can be crude and plain, we are also smart enough to know that blowing all our salary on expensive clothes and gadety cell phones--who really needs data tranfer?--does not make us refined. The clothes dont make the man; the man makes the clothes. Yea, I like jeans, a baseball cap, and trainers (gosh I've been here for too long). So what?

I think that they are just jealous. Is fucking Chisnau really better than Cali? No matter how rich a Russian is they still have to wait outside in the cold for hours and come hat in hand in order to take a week vacation to Vegas.

Doctor_Skank
03-28-06, 14:43
I think for EE girls it isnt about history, its about what's cool and what they understand. They understand D&G, Prada, Boss and LaCoste. They understand that Euro cities generally are more interesting than US ones and perhaps most importantly, they receive Euro television programs, specifically MTV Europe etc., on satellite TV. Moreover, a lot of them vacation in Europe and most can't afford to go to the US, let alone get a visa.

I also dont think Euroland is superior, or inferior for that matter, but have been finding most of my recent gfs are more in tune with Europe culturally than with the US. Euro fashions, euro music, euro holidays.

Sure that might rather live in Cali, but Amalfi aint bad either.

Beyond that, you've got a wider range of EE perspective than I... I havent been to the EU-wannabes (except for a glorious holiday in Bulgaria in 99) such as Romania, Moldava etc. as extensively as you have. Most of my exposure is admittedly Moscow/Pitr/Kiev, which are unique in themselves.

George90
03-28-06, 23:33
And the attitude of upper class Ruskies...Don't get me started....they were all iliterate slaves (serfs officailly, but slaves functionally) until years into the 20th Century. The Russians had so little respect for their own culture that their own king and queen refused to speak his own tongue at their own court. Honestly, I think that flushing toillets came to EE only in the last 1/2 century.


Not to nitpick, but there is more to that language issue than DD has implied.

Firstly, Russian kings and queens are called Tsars and Tsarinas. Secondly, it was only one tsar that refused to speak Russian. That was Peter the Great. He insisted on speaking French. He wanted to modernize Russia and spent many years in western Europe, especially France, getting ideas for a navy, army, and scientific / mechanical / engineering advancements. He hired lots of Europeans to work as aides in his court. As none spoke Russian, and the lingua franca at that time was French, his court spoke almost exclusively French during his reign.

After him, there was a backlash against foreigners and the court's language reverted to Russian.

George90
03-28-06, 23:42
I’m hardly Mr. Morals, but I often find myself distraught after a night with a prostitute in EE—they usually open up to me and I don’t like what I hear. Almost universally, these girls have had really tough lives, hate their jobs, and are subject to abuse beyond most Western imagination. Every day I wake up I thank the lord that I’m an American.


DD,

Do you sincerely believe ALL of what there ladies tell you about their lives???? Haven't all of us been beseiged by tearful pleas for extra money because a) my mother is sick b) my father is sick c) my baby is sick d) my niece/nephew is sick e) medicine is SO expensive f) [relative's name here] needs an operation g) anything else you can imageine.

Yes, they lead difficult lives, but their lives are not particularly more difficult than most other women's lives in their country. They are telling you those things because you appear sympthetic to them and likely to give them more money for the same service if they tell you a sufficiently convincing sob story.

Bart9000
03-28-06, 23:43
i find it interesting that you as a "stable income earner" are able to have a model grade girlfriend appearently in her prime. how often did this happen to you back at home. i suspect you are the kind of guy who generally did "pretty well", but c'mon.

let's face facts. this girl's counterparts in the us (i'll leave commentary about w. europe to someone more knowledgeable), throw themselves at the kind of guy who drives a lambo....and then, if failing to land one before her looks start to fade, settle for some "poor schlub" who drives a 7 series beamer.

could it be that the thing that allows you to date this girl is a cultural difference? could it possibly be that some of us 'pathetic wankers" desire, or at least want to explore the possibility of something other than the "have your cake and eat it" menatlity of american chicks. by the way, it sounds like i would agree with her-most americans are boring, unable to have discussion about anything except sports, and making money.

regarding upper middle class college educated girls (presumably your ex pats), there is a dirty little secret about them......the vast majority of them want to be soccer moms and housewifes, not "co-breadwinners" (i can cite stats about what percentage of female ivy league grads are working in "education appropriate" positions 10-15 years out...it is like 20% as i recall). this is absolutely fine. however due to "have your cake and eat it", these women feel that despite being provided by her man's labor a cushy life of light housework, watching fucking oprah, having coffee with her girlfriends, and playing with the children, they should be entitled to a full share+ of power in the relationship-"you can have it all baby"...and when she doesn't get it starts to use sex as a weapon to get her way. this is the kind of thing that results in divorce (aka financial ass [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) ruin for the man).

i could be mistaken, but wasn't it you who had a blowout fight with your russian ex-wife because you found out that she was putting out for you despite head splitting migraines because it was "her duty". sounds like that just might be a little different mentality there doesn't it? do you think that might be desireable as opposed to the afore mentioned.

yes, there are some pathetic wankers out chasing 2nd and 3rd world tail. i once read a testimonial letter from a guy on one of the mail order bride sites that caused me to say "what a schmuck!" i could tell just from his own writing that he was an ass backwards loser fuck. others however, are more or less "normal guys" who don't want the afore mentioned scenario.

off on something of a tangent by the way, there would probably be an assertion that i'm the kind of guy who "just doesn't have game" or the like. to that i would have to say "you are right-i don't". quite frankly, i find it ridiculous that as men we in this culture we are (in addition to the burden of being the potential provider/breadwinner), relegated to the role of "court jester", tap-dancing for the approval of women. being "entertaining" and "charming" have traditionally been female functions, at least until "modern culture" deigned otherwise.


moving on..

james d does not have a physical disability (i have seen pictures of him), although he is absolutely a socially retarded ass backwards fuck. yes, i (collectively w/ sin, cho, rd, marak) biatch slapped him down,and are now dancing on his grave. we did this, not because he is pathetic (witness another example on the aw board who is being mostly ignored-i'm sure you can figure out who it is), or because he legitimately disagrees with the consensus opinion (multiple examples-yourself included). we did it because he is an asshole!!! and being a pathetic socially retarded ass backwards fuck isn't an excuse for that.

b9k

Bart9000
03-29-06, 00:01
DD,

Do you sincerely believe ALL of what there ladies tell you about their lives???? Haven't all of us been beseiged by tearful pleas for extra money because a) my mother is sick b) my father is sick c) my baby is sick d) my niece/nephew is sick e) medicine is SO expensive f) [relative's name here] needs an operation g) anything else you can imageine.

Yes, they lead difficult lives, but their lives are not particularly more difficult than most other women's lives in their country. They are telling you those things because you appear sympthetic to them and likely to give them more money for the same service if they tell you a sufficiently convincing sob story.


Adding on to this:

TO THE EXTENT OF MY KNOWLEDGE, although it is difficult in EE to get a big screen TV, car, spacious homes, ding dongs, ho ho's etc, their society generally does a pretty good job at keeping a roof over everyone's head, food in everyone's stomach, and providing health care (yes, I realize it isn't the Mayo clinic but still free to all). My point is that life there isn't THAT bad, especially relative to some other parts of the world.

Where I live, there are a lot of Slovaks, Macedonians, and Croatians. I can tell you from personal experience that there is no greater bitter asshole than some poor guy who thought the streets were paved with gold here who susequently discovered that he has to work 15 hours a day at two shit jobs to hold the same standard of living he had back in Slovakia, which could be obtained with 35 hours a week, working not very hard.

B9K

Rock Dog
03-29-06, 02:38
I gotta say, the current round of discussion is interesting. The general thrust seems to be the relative pros and cons of Euro/ eastern Euro women/culture etc. vs how things are over here.

Dirk, there's a whiff of hypocrisy in what you write. One the one hand, you imply that someone who goes somewhere else looking for sex/love/happiness is a potential wanker. Yet, on the other hand, that's exactly what you yourself have done. Is that not ironic?

Is a guy who travels to a far-off place really a loser? That old nugget keeps on floating back to the surface time and again. Not true! The very act of travel implies a strong desire and demonstrates the willingness to fulfill that desire. This is far superior to the uncounted masses who complain every day, but never do anything to change their lot in life.

Is the grass greener on the other side of the fence? It depends on who you ask..... usually the people on the other side of said fence will say no. But, jumping the fence to take a look-see beats the hell out of sitting there and wondering what-if?

Last year, some guy wrote a post saying something about how the women in south america weren't that great. He went on to provide proof saying that this attractive, high class lawyer woman he was with didn't work out for him. But, the thing is, at least he got the chance to find out what she was like inthe first place. How often does that happen for any of us here at home..... almost never, I suspect.

I see average, to above average girls around all the time. Some of them are really hot...... some of them I recognize from their jobs or maybe the gym. Do any of them say hi? Do any of them even bother to indicate that they recognize me (which I'm sure they do...) or even make eye contact? Nope. When women are like this, how can anyone break through and make contact with charming and attractive young women? It's not easy for most guys.

EE, Latina, Asian, African or whatever..... when you go somewhere far away it seems like the barrier evaporates. All of a sudden you are superman and no woman is beyond you. All of a sudden, they all start making eye contact.... approaches are made with confident ease and the conversation comes easily.

If I see a guy with his disproportionately hot foreign girl, he gets my respect. He's NOT some wanker, a loser who had to go somewhere else 'cause he couldn't get himself a local girl. I prefer to see that man as the kind of guy who takes charge, makes his own destiny and gets what he wants in life.

Hmmmmm, there's this country called Slovakia. And this girl from there, named Melania.... she was pretty hot. Oh, that's right, she's not available anymore. Not since she got married to that loser from New York named Trump.

Rock

George90
03-29-06, 20:46
ee, latina, asian, african or whatever..... when you go somewhere far away it seems like the barrier evaporates. all of a sudden you are superman and no woman is beyond you. all of a sudden, they all start making eye contact.... approaches are made with confident ease and the conversation comes easily.
rock

you hit the nail 4-square on the head and drove it flush with the wood in one hammer hit!!!! bull's eye!!!

even though this forum is for p4p, what rock has said applies to non-pro's even moreso. i only know about latin america. women are so much more approachable there. average men are not viewed as potential criminals, [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127), losers, or otherwise scum not worthy of giving the time of day. we are potential friends, companions, boyfriends, lovers, husbands, etc. until we show cause for otherwise. the point is that at least we are given the opportunity to not meet the grade; we are not shot down before we even start. great post!

Rock Dog
03-30-06, 02:07
this is an email i got from a friend. this friend has some very good personal experiences regarding russian/ee women. on one hand, i want to respect the guy's privacy, but on the other hand, this letter has such insight, such feeling and honesty.... we could all benefit from reading it.

so, what i've decided to do is share a heavily edited version of the email. this will protect the guy's privacy while allowing us to maybe learn something.


here it is:

with ee women, the first time i went over there was in 1995. i was a dumb fuck...... just smitten. i got burned for a lot of money and it wasnt worth it.

i never married her, but we were together 1 month and it as a nightmare. i brought back a ***** with 2 kids, she was only 5 years younger than me so i thought it might work. turns out she just wanted out of the country.

i have known 11 other guys here where i live that took the plunge like me. all of them got fucked over when they brought their women back here. gee are all 12 of us that bad?

now the canadian immigration board has finally seen the pattern. the russian women have a bad track record thats for sure. not the philipinos, south americans or asians.. there you go .

city girls like the ones from moscow, saint pete etc. are mostly cunning, educated, and life there is not so bad. now when a moscovite wants to come to america watch out theres always an ulterior motive, unless you look like brad pitt or have a lot of money.

i went back to russia 5 years later after licking my wounds and got over the anger of being duped . i travel all over russia and fell in love with a poor girl from mordorvia, average wage is about $150.00@month. very poor and 1/3 of the homes don't have running water. saransk is where she is from and thats the capital. what a difference from a city girl from a country girl! like day and night.

we got married and she gave birth to my child last year. i have been with her for 4 years now. i work 6 months in canada and stay 6 months in russia. i am 13 years older than her. she is no raving beauty that's for sure but a 7 in canada. i am happy even though i was ass raped by the first russian woman, i never gave up and did not generalize that all russian women are bad. but you must be awfully carefull, they are more cunning than north american women. just food for thought its easier to fuck a nice looking dyevuchka than a good looking north american woman. but thats the problem.......they will cheat at the drop of a hat. food for thought when bringing the russian babe home to america.

i will be bringing my wife to canada this year. i know it will work out,she is a simple woman not educated russian name for that woman is ba ba meaning worthless just good for haveing babies cooking cleaning a simpleton. well guess what so am i. but i do make a lot of money for no schooling myself. if she wanted to leave me no big deal i wanted a child and she gave me one. no other woman ever gave me a child, i would gladly give her 1/2 of everything i own at least i have a son to carry my name. to tell the truth she would never leave me i do treat her good. even though she is a ba ba. i do love her.


so there you have it..... the real deal. the preceding email was written by someone who has talked the talk and walked the walk. no bs, just the truth as seen by a man who has been there and learned the hard way.

rock

Bart9000
03-30-06, 03:23
Let me ask you...knowing your friend, would you say that he would, be happy and compatible with a sophisticated girl from Vancouver, Seattle, Miami etc?

Although I could be mistaken, this situation, although the woman may very well have been a VISA Hound, and an unfaithful tramp, sounds to me more like a bad matching of city to country than east to west.

Conversely, I consider myself MODERATELY sophisticated, and hope someday soon to be living in an urbane atmosphere....I don't think I would be happy with a simple "baby machine"

B9k

Rock Dog
03-30-06, 04:49
Well yeah, of course the answer could be as simple as that. But, I ask you.... 11 other guys as well?

My suspicion is that these Russian girls aren't all they're cracked up to be. A friend of mine who is from the Ukraine said pretty much the same thing... watch out for those city girls, they're spoiled!

Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, Bulgaria or wherever..... these are all different countries and of course there's gonna be a fair bit of variation from girl to girl as well. I'm just putting this guy's story out there because I believe it's a real experience and not some made-up, wishful-thinking daydream like some of the info you see all the time.

Rock

Chocha Monger
03-30-06, 05:36
Bart,

The best option when dealing with Russian girls is to let them be your love sponge. Let them soak up all your seed and bear your sons in Russia where it's a lot cheaper to raise them. There is no need to bring the women over here; and you can afford to have as many as six children on a solidly middle class American income. You can confer US citizenship on your kids if they hold intellectual or athletic promise before their 18th birthday.

Any caucasian woman with above average looks and half the cunning of a fox will take you for your last penny shortly after entering the US. Don't do it dude! Stay single and spread your seed where you can. Love in America is an illusion or a barely tolerable condition at best.

The truth is a man's single purpose on earth is to pump his load into the woman with the best DNA he can find. The impulse to find and fuck beautiful young women is just nature's way of getting him to do his job. If it were not for this single fact men would stop working as soon as they had enough to eat and a place to shelter from the elements.

Please read the following books before going any further:

Ridley, M. 1993.The Red Queen: Sex and The Evolution of Human Nature. HarperCollins. New York, NY.

Barash, D. and Lipton, J. 2001.The Myth of Monogamy: Fidelity and Infidelity in Animals and People. W.H. Freeman and Company. New York.

DirkDingy
03-31-06, 04:05
you boys got me. i looked over my previous posts and realized that many of them are much more acrimonious than my thoughts on the subject truly are. and yes, there is some hypocrisy in my posts and definitely more in my actions…like most right wing zealots, there is a big difference between our philosophies and our actions.

george: you’re right about russian history. but i hope you got my drift. if you’ve ever dealt with russians—real russians, not ukes, poles, or whatever—you know that they suffer from the lost empire complex. they are still sore about the outcome of the cold war and view americans through a lens of awe, jealousy, and contempt. one of the guys who works for me as a porter was a russian officer during their afghan campaign and can’t help but belittle america and her armed forces every chance he gets. yes, russians are able to cope with more hardship than the average american, but it doesn’t make them superior. i constantly hear from my russian pals and gals that save a few---most americans are ignoramuses. maybe they are, but i don’t want to be told this every time the vodka comes out.

hoez and deception: no one wants to be a hoe. no one wants to be slave. and many ee hoes are slaves. they are not free to come and go as they please and are abused emotionally and physically by their pimp—the women are often just as brutal as the men. many of these girls are villagers who have no clue what they are getting into—either the profession or the working conditions. moscow line up girls are rightfully terrified every time they go with a client.

i had two bulgarians girl from a brothel run away with me to kosovo a few years back. both were from small towns and were sold to abroad (germany) by a trusted relative. one escaped, the other left, but when they returned home they had nothing to go back to: no home, no income, no family, they lived at the bordello in exchange for food and a bed shared between five girls. as much as i like to consider myself a charming and decent fellow, what sort of life do you think that those girls had if they opted to leave with a drunken foreigner to the war torn asshole of europe after a few hours with me? they obviously had nothing to lose.

admittedly, i have a soft spot for hardship stories, but if some girl gets a few more dollars out of me i figure she’ll probably put it to better use than i will. her life must be pretty morose if she sells her body to strangers. i’ve had some profound highs and incredible lows in my life and have been helped by others so i return the favor when i can. i believe in karma and thank that if you help someone out today you have something good coming to you tomorrow. do the girls know that i am a softy? yes. have i been taken for a ride probably? do i regret it? no. there are only two ways to get great service from a hooker: if she likes you or fears you. i prefer the former.

bart: first, my girl’s russian, 28 and in ee; in russian (read dog) years that’s about 35. if a woman is 25 and not married in this part of the world her peers question why she isn’t. i always tease her about being just another over the hill x-ruskie model. she’s also a flight attendant; while the job is cool and well paid for the region (1500-2500 euros a month), she’s smart enough to know that serving coffee at 7,000 ft is not what she wants to be doing in ten years. she’s also smart enough to know that while she can be the mistress, or perhaps wife, of a russian or european much richer than i am that she’ll be discarded because of her looks if she is chosen solely because her looks. rich ees change wives, girlfriends, and mistresses with the frequency that we buy a new pair of shoes. they may get older but their women remain the same age. so the catch is not quite as good as it appears. i’m content though. besides, not every hot woman goes after the fattest wallet they see—most women, i think, just want to be “comfortable” and respected.

i have no game and am somewhat doofy. my style and personality usually evoke responses that fall on the extreme ends of the spectrum. i’m still flummoxed why in so california or seattle i can date 8’s—like 3 dates with a clippers cheerleader-- with a bit of effort but on the east coast, especially new york city, i have a hard time getting the digits from a 6’s—the variance in quality is truly that pronounced. that being said, i’ve never had the general problem with american women that many posters seem to possess. i find it easier to get laid by hotter women abroad, but aw can be just as hot with a much better value system. i should also profess that i only dated outside of the college scene in america for about a year.

yes, my x-russian wife was a trooper and put out whenever i asked, but she also, unbeknownst to me, cheated on our taxes and committed insurance fraud without batting an eye—while i was working as a federal agent and she was making about 70-80k a year as a tennis pro in westchester. americans shun dishonesty and lawbreakers while russians couldn’t fathom existence without personally lying and breaking the law. she still doesn’t grasp the severity of her actions.

your assessment of the economic health and standard of living in ee is unfortunately wrong. don’t make the mistake of judging these largely agrarian lands by their urban capital cities. there are thousands of—many of which are stolen-- bmws and mbzs in bucharest but if you drive that beamer 30 miles south you will be shitting in an outhouse wiping your ass with the assistance of a flashlight…actually these villages have electricity a good portion of the day but lack running water. there is an incredible discrepancy between rich and poor and most people here get by any way they can. a cop and a high school teacher make 200 a month and a computer programmer makes $400-500. fine, but its cheaper there to live you say. no, not really. the fucking heating bill is about 50 euros a month for a family. take a look around the club…that hot girl in (fake) prada has been sipping that free drink she finagled from bartender for the past 3 hours and doesn’t have enough lei for the taxi home. free health care is also a façade. you have to “tip” everyone from the orderly to the surgeon to the pharmacist or they won’t clean your room or change your bedding, won’t operate on you when you need it done, or won’t give you the “free” drugs that socialized medicine allegedly provides.

ee is rotten to the core and capitalism and democracy has only brought poverty and unbridled greed to this part of the word. things were much better for most under soviet rule. they see the good life on tv and the $300 versace pants in the store but it’s beyond 90% of the population's reach. peep this: i occasionally fuck a resident doctor in bucharest who’s 25. she lives at home and sleeps in the same bed with her 28 yo married sister and her 14 month old nephew. this is not the exception. when you’re 10 sharing a room with your big bro is cool… keeps the monsters away…but sleeping in the same bed with someone else’s kid when you’re an adult is bullshit.

poland and the czech republic are better but not by a whole lot.

rock: you’re right. i find most of you posts quite sagacious. i don’t mean to imply that searching for a woman abroad makes the man a loser. if you get the right one and keep her away from a major metropolis you can be a very happy man. my comments were aimed at some posters on this board that, frankly, don’t have a fucking clue. they don’t have their shit together at home and think that running abroad for 2 weeks will solve their romance problems. foreign women will slap a broke man down quicker than an aw will, as the ones that hail from poorer countries place a greater premium on material things than american women do. i’ve gotten laid after going dutch with more than a few aw, if i tried that in ee or la i’d be immediately laughed away from her panties.

yes, you will get more play in poorer countries but it’s largely because of your wallet and novelty factor. having a gringo boyfriend who makes 45k a year in cartagena is cool. having an american husband in america who makes 45k is well…typical. many men go abroad and return home with women out of their looks league and are angered and heartbroken when they are cleaned out and lonely a few years later. from the moment a woman puts her profile on an international dating site catering to foreigners she’s got her scam just about figured out.

then again, maybe i suffer from the same mistake that i accuse others of: thinking that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. it’s just that i’m on the other side of the fence.

by the way, i’d bet a dollar that donald trump could get just about any women he wanted regardless of nationality and that his current fling was already in america and working when he met her.

Rock Dog
03-31-06, 04:08
Rock Dog,

I am well over 40 now. The truth is When a man turns 40 he gets lonely,if he is still single. and wants a mate not only for steady sex but for
COMPANIONSHIP. Believe me its nice to come home to some one and talk and laugh go for walks go to the movie theater go shopping with go out for dinners.
Now I have seen Foreign men that are FAT BALD + UGLY in Russia. with knock-out women. The truth is you can LIE to people BUT YOU CANT LIE TO YOURSELF. Now when this guy brings home to America his trophy wife, does he really think he can hold on to her? So what if he is a millionaire, she will still cheat I can tell you that. And I see a LOT of Foreign men with women 25 years their junior.

When I am 50 years old a woman who is 75 years old will not turn me on no matter how much money she has. I just think to myself Boy are you in for a lot of heartache once you bring your trophy wife back to America .

I also think men should not FOOL themselves they know how good looking they are or are not. And people call men LOSERS that go to Russia looking for a bride. Well most of them are, actually to be honest I would say 75% are mis-fits. This was even told to me by a Woman that owns and RUNS her own agency. I met my wife at a bazzar she was shopping for carrots.haha Funny isnt it. I notice most Russian men are not into fitness much. I never hardly ever seen any well built men there. Yes big guys with beer bellies. I think that is why my wife was attracted to me.


Just a few more words from my friend..... they're his opinions. I'm not trying to trash anyone's dreams, but rather, open a few eyes.

Rock

DirkDingy
03-31-06, 05:36
Wow.

i posted my diatribe before I read any of the later posts.

your friend is on point about Russian girls.

i know a bit about russian women as I was briefly married to a moscovite, spent a year after high school on a rotary scholarship outside of moscow, and interned in minsk.

simply put, big city russian girls have the same wants as urban women anywhere but the only difference is that they will do ANYTHING to get it.

no qualms, no hang ups, no reservations if their actions help them achieve their goals. i have deep reverence for russian woman as they often DO achieve their goals if given a sliver of opportunity....like the way one admires a particularly violent and astute boxer...as long as you are PERSONALY not the means to her goals or on the receiving end of his blows it's a work of beauty to observe.


blah blah blah blah.....russian women are the bomb. once you go russian you will never go back..or at least be happy with anything else. their beauty, their feminism, the way the suck you, the way they view you as a combination boss and father...it simply blows your mind.

the problem with most foreign men who date and marry russian (and to some extent all ee women) is that they don't truly understand the culture from which their lady comes from. they don't know that no matter how much they love her and how much she loves him that she will NEVER respect him. he's a fool... a nice fool...a caring fool...but still a fool who she gamed.

unless you've lived amongst these people you won’t understand them. going there for a week or two on holiday or even living there for years as a westerner among other expats will not lead to the requisite level of understanding. i doubt expats like Dr. Skank even completely understand the russian mentality. this level of comprehension can only be attained by forming unbreakable bonds with locals--like when a russian man calls you brother--, copious amounts of vodka, numerous sauna visits, and a COMMAND (not just understanding) of the Russian language.

If any of you have ever read a day in the life of ivan denisovich you will understand what I am about to write. the following is fucked up and I do not partake in or condone such activities, but it is a sine quo non of getting the respect of a russian women: domination. and this often entails physical abuse. For a russian women to respect you as a man she must fear you. This is a dirty little secret and no one admits it when they are sober but here is an example of what happens in this part of the world: You take your beautiful dyev to a club, sit her down with her friends, and go off in the corner with your boys to drink vodka. In the car home you ask her why she was looking at another man and accuse her of cheating on you. She emphatically denies this. The moment she walks in the door you lay into her for a good 5-10 minutes. After you’re done, you tell her to bring you a glass of tea, and then you have your way with her sexually. Surely she's upset and in physical pain, but before you pass out she cuddles up to you, apologizes for her "transgressions," tells you that she loves you, and falls asleep in your embrace.

most western men wouldn’t do this, and if they do they should rightfully be locked up, but ca la vie in this part of the world. You may be able to have a wonderful life with a russain woman if you don’t behave like a brute….but she will never respect you if you don’t.

Rock Dog
03-31-06, 06:32
dd,

whoa, i'm almost speechless here after reading your post. yet there is an undeniable honesty in what you've written. i think i'm inclined to believe it. a lot of women here look at guys like we're suckers to be played for their personal benefit.... so why not in many other countries as well?

as for the beatings...... well, not my personal style but it's true when they say "fear is the truest form of respect." who are we to judge another culture by our own standards?

rock

Bart9000
03-31-06, 06:36
Sorry for the silence-been trying to cut down on posting.....I got so much shit done today.

I advocate a maximum 15-16 year differential between you and the girl. PERSONALLY (YMMV), I think I could pull this off and keep her "down on the farm", even bringing her to the US, provided I get an education appropriate job (qualified and applying for 60-70K US$) and officially join the middle class. However, I absolutely agree with you Rock that some guy who at 45 looks like "Newman" on Seinfeld, and isn't a high income earner (or even if he is), is headed for a disaster by bringing home a 21 year old piece of ass. Conversely, even he may have some luck taking 37 year old MILF Olga and her 2 fatherless children.

By the way, Rock, you made me laugh out loud with "beer belly". My last time in Prague, I had a bit of luck with a gorgeous 19 year old FSU girl. She was rubbing my beer belly (I'm working on it) and saying "Is what man should look like."

Cho, I do hear what you are saying, and do sometimes get disgusted with females for being unable to overcome their "animal instincts" (but then my predilection towards perky 19 year old tits is the same thing) with the whole "give pussy to the jerk" thing because his predecessor 4000 years ago was the guy who would most ferociously defend her (or so the theory goes). However, there are most definitely benefits (if you can find a good woman), such as domestic support, cooking (married men live longer primarily due to relatively good dietary habits-I've been known to live on Chinese carry out and Mickey Dees), as Rock mentioned, companionship, and added social grace (something I most definitley lack-comes in handy at say the company function where they are considering promoting your nerdy awkward ass from mid-level manager to low level executive). But again, you have to find a good one.

B9K

Bart9000
03-31-06, 07:26
You were posting while I was still writing. Your post is interesting and very insightful.

Some time ago, there was an infamous post on either I believe the St. Petersburg or Moscow board about the way to handle a Russian Woman. It advocated as I recall, if you are able to bring yourself to nothing else, MAKING A PRETENSE of getting ready to hit her.

Along the same lines, I personally believe that my little bit of success with the 19 year old FSU hottie, was the result of me (not hard enough to hurt her) SLAMMING her into the wall of a disco to kiss her, THROWING her onto the bed......

Basically (nerd factor 11-possibly 12), it seems to some degree that you have to observe Klingon mating rituals (this actually kind of makes sense because Klingons were based on cold war era Russians-and I'm not a trekkie....except for a little Deep Space 9 now and then)

B9k

Adding on briefly-I need some Z time:

"Admittedly, I have a soft spot for hardship stories, but if some girl gets a few more dollars out of me I figure she’ll probably put it to better use than I will. Her life must be pretty morose if she sells her body to strangers. I’ve had some profound highs and incredible lows in my life and have been helped by others so I return the favor when I can. I believe in karma and thank that if you help someone out today you have something good coming to you tomorrow. Do the girls know that I am a softy? Yes. Have I been taken for a ride probably? Do I regret it? No. There are only two ways to get great service from a hooker: if she likes you or fears you. I prefer the former."

I am friends with a Czech girl who has provided personal services to me. She has a life full of material comforts, including a pretty healthy jewelry collection, and moderately frequent shopping trips in like London. She is also honest (I saw her go out of her way in high heels to return a borrowed lighter), and I have seen demonstration of her being faithful. She may be a big exception to the rule but....

Yes, the super hotties can actually be easier to get than 5-6's sometime. Although (before I decided they were beneath my standards) would get rejected by 5's, but last year came damn close to getting on an 18 year old "9" (I was just a little powerful and domineering to her, she loved it).....the reason I didn't get it was that she became a stripper, and found out that she could make men pay $8 a minute just to look at her little coochie.

OK, sleeping now....

Doctor_Skank
03-31-06, 08:48
dirk dingy:

really fantastic posts, great analysis of what makes ee women tick! definitely food for thought which i will take to heart, although i dont agree with the extent of physical force required to keep your ee babe in check, but then again i have my own market cornered there and am very happy with it using my own methods. loved your description of how ee couples work, it is something that most westerners dont understand.

go to any ee disco and you'll find the hottest babes dancing among themselves on the dance floor and wonder where their men are. then you'll spot a group of misshapen flatheads dressed in black sitting at a table with a few bottles of vodka, some appetizers and fresh fruit for the girls rep001tered on the table. first you'll think, "what a bunch of flathead losers" and just as you target one of the babes on the dancefloor you'll see her and her friends walk to the table and sit with the flatheads, who will completely ignore the girls except for maybe giving them a squeeze of ass. i always warn my newbie friends in ee to not assume that single girls are single. especially the hottest ones usually have a "sponsor" of some sort calling the shots.

i don't apply much overt physical force and normally i am usually not too interested in keeping my girls around for too long since i dont live in moscow and can't control the girls anyway, but still have a few very special ones which are part of the permanent stock and have been oncall bedmates for a couple of years. one thing is for sure, you have to have a russian girl's respect, otherwise ultimately you are nothing but a loser to her. russia (and ee) is all about win or lose.

thankfully i am a fan of rough sex, so that seemed to correspond well with my ee adventures. my first "real" ee girlfriend used to beg me to "be rough with her", which was an education i took to heart and which became the cornerstone of my sexual repertoire. she's since married some gazprom bigwig and lives a life of luxury, but confessed recently that she is very bored. i didnt take the bait as i really like my face the way it is.

i think a lot of guys who import an ee girl may have best intentions and she may even give him a fair chance, but he'll never quite be able to understand her nor "cross the threshold" into her mentality and give her what she as an ee female inherently requires, which is a really strong man.

curiously enough, the place where i had to get most "tough" with ee girls was in ukraine, moscow girls (which make up the majority of my market) are getting more cosmopolitan in their tastes and can be manipulated through other means, neither of which is physical force nor money nor love or promises of marriage. they are addicted to fun and adventure and enjoying life, if you can give them that and be firm and strong at the same time, not doting too much attention on them or succumbing to their every whim, you will get far. and if you get them addicted to sex with you, they'll stick around as long as you want them to.

as for me understanding russian culture and mentality, i don't consider myself truly integrated, nor do i want to be. but i am usually on the up and up and do well both in the business world and as a sexual predator.

i really enjoy and value your insight, which i will pool with my own and that of other esteemed members in my humble trek through ee... :)

DirkDingy
03-31-06, 13:12
Bart,

The best option when dealing with Russian girls is to let them be your love sponge. Let them soak up all your seed and bear your sons in Russia where it's a lot cheaper to raise them. There is no need to bring the women over here; and you can afford to have as many as six children on a solidly middle class American income. You can confer US citizenship on your kids if they hold intellectual or athletic promise before their 18th birthday.

Any caucasian woman with above average looks and half the cunning of a fox will take you for your last penny shortly after entering the US. Don't do it dude! Stay single and spread your seed where you can. Love in America is an illusion or a barely tolerable condition at best.

The truth is a man's single purpose on earth is to pump his load into the woman with the best DNA he can find. The impulse to find and fuck beautiful young women is just nature's way of getting him to do his job. If it were not for this single fact men would stop working as soon as they had enough to eat and a place to shelter from the elements.

Please read the following books before going any further:

Ridley, M. 1993.The Red Queen: Sex and The Evolution of Human Nature. HarperCollins. New York, NY.

Barash, D. and Lipton, J. 2001.The Myth of Monogamy: Fidelity and Infidelity in Animals and People. W.H. Freeman and Company. New York.


Are you just stupid or on crack? Your post is preposterous and reveals that you no nothing of substance on the subject you just wrote about.

What kind of man will frolic around the world impregnating poor women and leaving his children to grow up in poverty? Russian women are not feigning for a 1/2 yankee baby with an absentee father. If the women is from a poor province she would expect that you'd take care of her (in America) if she bore your child. Obviously if you were worth a damn you wouldn't be searching for ass in Russia while you live in America so it's an equitable exchange if she gets a better life and you get a decent attractive woman. If she's a wealthy city girl it's unlikely she'd go for you in the first place, but if she did, your "solid middle class American income" won't allow for a decent lifestyle for three in Moscow let alone allow you to maintain residences for six in Russia and a primary domicile in America. Obviously if you didn't take her and your first child to American she will not be hoodwinked into believing that three or four more children will induce you to spirit her off to the land of milk and honey.

whether or not Moscow deserves its ranking as the third most expensive city in world is debatable, but that city is made for the rich. living with anything that resembles a Western standard will cost 2.5x-4x as much in Russia than it does in the States.


don't try and be too cute with these girls either. ruin a girl's life and you may just come up missing...especaily if she's got Georgian or Central Asian blood in her. Her family will look the other way, or hardly look at all, if you cheat on her or slap her around, but if you abandon their sister or daughter you'd best be one paranoid muthafucka once you hit Sheremetyevo. While you're making your rounds to your six residences in the Motherland you will undoubtedly find a nice surprise when you walk through the door in a few of them.


"Love in America is an illusion or a barely tolerable condition at best."...you must've been burned man...and burned real bad to write such nonsense. I'm sorry.

Larsca04
03-31-06, 14:04
dirk,

if you describe chocha as an idiot you are quite polite.

i had a short overview on his last dozens of posts and he gives nothing of value. the majority of his posts consists of the discrimination of women.
also he seems to have no real experiences with russian women but believes to be in the position to judge about them.

a troll and gnom behind his keyboard.

larsca04

George90
03-31-06, 18:29
DD,

Your post on Russian women was very interesting and enlightening. While I have no direct experience with Russian women, I believe what you wrote to be accurate. I have heard similar things from men who have dated Russian women, and I have heard similar things about other nationalities and ethnicities of women.

Many men feel the main problem with AW is that they intellectually reject any notion of men dominating women, but emotionally desire in their personal lives some form of domination by a man. AW are not succeeding in reconciling this dilemma.

My experience with foreign women is they accept that men will dominate them in some fashion. In the process of interacting with them, I have discovered that foreign women expect reciprocation, and to dominate men in some fashion. Does this mutual domination lead to mutual respect?

Chocha Monger
03-31-06, 21:49
DirkDingy,

I see you still cannot disagree with others without resorting to personal insults. Perhaps, you would like to slap some sense into me like you do with your Russian hoes?


Larsca04,

Get off DD's dick before he slaps you around like he does his Russian b*tches. Then again, you would probably enjoy the beating so disregard that.

You want some useful advice? Find another another web site if you're so concerned about discrimination against women because at this point your hipocrisy knows no bounds.

Oh,watchout for DD's backhand, according to him, he has a lot of practice at handing out bitchslaps to your kind.

Best Regards,
Chocha Monger

Sinanju Master
04-01-06, 04:08
my bretheren, much of the previous posts have really intrigued me and I've made the posters aware of that, but it has been off-topic, sort of... let's get back to the subject of the board and cease the literary open warfare please...

DirkDingy
04-01-06, 18:07
choca:

you posted some ignorant and cruel shit and you were called on it.

what you said was particularly repugnant to me because you are a black man advocating this sort of behavior. I’ve personally witnessed the destruction of girls’ lives because some African piece of shit in the fsu or low class American black defense contractor in the Balkans left some poor girl with a black baby in racist ass eastern europe to be shunned by society. don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen Americans of all colors do this in the Balkans, particularly those that hail from the South, but when a black american does this it makes my blood boil, for unlike the African “students”, these guys often make good money and are able to provide financially for their child and baby’s momma.

there is a big difference in engaging in a free market, albeit illicit, economic transaction and intentionally and maliciously setting out to ruin a poor girl's life. thus, there is no inherent hypocrisy in paying a woman for sex and voicing opposition for the fathering of multiple kids by numerous women which you have no intention to provide for emotionally or financially. ....although you were kind enough to confer us citizenship on the kids if they had an above average aptitude for running behind a ball or shucking and jiving....beyond the pale man…to answer your question: yes. i would like to knock the fuck out of any man who seriously intended to enact the scenario which you described.

you also failed to read my entire post as I clearly stated that i do not condone or partake in domestic battery.

moreover, the russian mentality markedly differs from other slavic or ee mentalities. not every russian beats his wife regularly, but the specter of spousal abuse is much more prominent in russia than it is in the West.

Bart9000
04-02-06, 11:52
I'm friends with a mid-fiftyish Russian Ex-Pat. We both worked with a rich prettyboy early 30ish chick magnet who gets mad poon here in the US. My friend indicated that this would not necessarily be the case in Russia because Russian girls would view him as (more or less) "boy not man", "big girl", "wussy/candy ass" etc. He also used a Russian word which literaly translated means something like "one who marches the soldiers out to their posts, but does not himself fight"

b9k

DirkDingy
04-02-06, 12:59
I'm friends with a mid-fiftyish Russian Ex-Pat. We both worked with a rich prettyboy early 30ish chick magnet who gets mad poon here in the US. My friend indicated that this would not necessarily be the case in Russia because Russian girls would view him as (more or less) "boy not man", "big girl", "wussy/candy ass" etc. He also used a Russian word which literaly translated means something like "one who marches the soldiers out to their posts, but does not himself fight"

b9k

russian women are less concerned with looks than their western counterparts are. gender rolls are rigidly defined and inflexible as opposed to the west which tolerates an increasing number of girly men. russian women generally value status and adventure above all else.

come to think of it, i have never really noticed a russian pretty boy. nevertheless, rich good looking people generally do better than poor ugly ones do. lol.

Bart9000
04-02-06, 16:50
I think what my friend was describing was more a function of behavior than physical appearance......never "busting a move" (of course he didn't have to because gold digger bimbo's were constantly throwing themselves at him), and never being dominant/commanding.

Chocha Monger
04-05-06, 18:31
Associated Press
Updated: 7:00 p.m. ET April 4, 2006
NEW DELHI - A textbook used in western India compares housewives to donkeys — and concludes that the pack animals make more loyal companions, a newspaper reported Tuesday.

"A donkey is like a housewife," declares the Hindi language primer approved by the state of Rajasthan, according to The Times of India newspaper. "It has to toil all day, and, like her, may even have to give up food and water."

"In fact, the donkey is a shade better," continues the text meant for 14-year-olds, "for while the housewife may sometimes complain and walk off to her parents' home, you'll never catch the donkey being disloyal to his master."

The book, reportedly used in Rajasthani schools, has sparked protests from the women's wing of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, which controls the state government and approved the text, the Times reported.

Rajasthan is known to be one of India's most traditional states, where conservative attitudes toward women predominate, and state education officials said the comparison was meant to be funny, nothing more.

"The comparison was made in good humor," state education official A.R. Khan was quoted as saying.

He added, however, that "protests have been taken note of, and the board is in the process of removing" the reference.

Chocha Monger
05-14-06, 08:57
One of my friends recently married a girl from Latin America and it changed his life completely. After witnessing his present life first hand, I felt a profound sense of pity for him. Lately, I’ve not felt much motivation to post but after receiving a PM from another member I realized that this story needed to be told. ISG romantics get out your box of scented tissues for the true tale that follows.

Manolo was the sort of guy who ate, slept, and breathed pussy. He mongered in Europe, Asia, and Latin America. If there was a party and pussy somewhere, Manolo was there. Then while working in Central America he met Salome. She was one of those caramel skinned, doe eyed, big breasted, raven haired mestiza beauties with full lips. Things were about to change in ways that none of us could imagine at the time.

Salome was a glutton for cock and it seemed that Manolo’s every minute off the job was spent stuffing her with his tube steak. However, from time to time he would still find opportunities to oblige the other ladies when she was not around. Salome knew about his other activities but she said that she accepted him for what he was and did not intend to change him. She never asked Manolo for anything else besides a good hot sweaty fuck and he was always happy to grant her request.

This happy state of affairs lasted for several months until Monolo had to return to the US at the end of his assignment. Salome kept in contact with him by phone but he was fucking other girls back home and had nothing in mind beyond their occasional phone conversations. Then to our surprise Salome obtained a tourist visa to visit relatives in the US; the odds of a Central American being granted a visa to visit the US is probably less than the odds of winning the grand prize for the Florida lottery.

Of course, once Salome entered the US she called Manolo and requested a rendezvous. My friend could not pass up another opportunity to nail that hot pussy and flew over her location to recapture the old times. Apparently, his sessions with her put anything he currently had in the US to shame so he decided to move her into his place in order to fuck that pussy on a daily basis.

Life was good, Manolo could not be happier; he was fucking a beautiful slim woman and was the envy of all the guys when he went out in public. However, as the saying goes, time flies when you’re having fun. Salome’s six months in the US was drawing to a close and she had to leave or risk violating the terms of her visa and facing deportation with no hope of return for ten years. Manolo knew of her position but did not want to interrupt his ready access to her pussy so he encouraged her to over stay her visa.

Salome was now officially an illegal alien and subject to deportation if caught by the authorities. She was totally dependent on Manolo for support because she risked being apprehended if she sought employment. Tired of living in hiding, she pressured Manolo for marriage as a means of getting a green card which would allow her to remain and work in the US. He was reluctant to marry her due to his having been married twice before to American vultures that picked his bones clean for alimony and child support.

She finally gave him an ultimatum, marry her or she would find someone else who would. Manolo caved in to the demands marrying her and submitting the paperwork to legalize her status. Things still seemed to be going good until a few months ago when he finally succeeded in knocking her up.

Now, Manolo cannot go anywhere without taking Salome in tow; she even waits for him to get off work. All of his old friends are viewed with deep suspicion and he is not allowed hang out with the guys even during daylight hours. He sometimes makes an attempt to leave the house without her but she breaks down in tears and he always ends up having to take her along.

Her always ready and willing ways have changed too. She refuses to fuck Manolo when she feels pissed or simply not in the mood. Before she would pick up after him and cook without complaint, but now she bitches at him for leaving his paperwork on the kitchen counter or the dining table. She no longer irons his clothes and he must now take them to the cleaners to be pressed. His days are spent slaving away at work to pay child support for three kids and debts from his two prior marriages while Salome lives like a queen.

Manolo often tells Salome that she has changed and has become Americanized which results in his being warned to shut up before she throws a random object at him. She has joined a network of foreign wives from Latin America who converse in Spanish by phone on a daily basis sharing tidbits on how to keep their gringo husbands in line. As for Manolo, this has to be true love because after three wives and four children he can’t afford for it not to be.

George90
05-16-06, 03:53
There is a lesson in CM tale.

The rules are: Don't marry pure fuck material. Don't fuck marriage material.

Manolo didn't heed that rule and he is paying dearly. It has nothing to do with her being Latina. It has everything to do with his deciding with the wrong head!

Le Dragueur
05-16-06, 05:49
He was married twice, paying out alimony & child support, and he still chose to marry? Didn't he learn anything? NO pussy is worth giving up your freedom.

Chocha Monger
05-16-06, 07:01
There is a lesson in CM tale.

The rules are: Don't marry pure fuck material. Don't fuck marriage material.

Manolo didn't heed that rule and he is paying dearly. It has nothing to do with her being Latina. It has everything to do with his deciding with the wrong head!
George90:

You are absolutely right! With Manolo's vast experience in both marriage and mongering the blame for his current and future predicament rests solely on his shoulders. Women can only go as far as you let them when it comes to your life.

I guess even hardcore punters aren't immune to falling for a snatch with just the right grip and a set of lips that can suck better than a Dirt Devil.

Catmonger
05-21-06, 04:08
Manolo's tale warns, that no matter how savvy you are, there is always a woman out there who is taking it to the next level. It seems it's a numbers game and we all are spinning the wheel of fortune.

My instinct is urge Manolo to get cold on her ass before the forge is cooled.

XXL
05-28-06, 14:17
Looking back on over two decades of mongering and having had several foreign girls over on tourist visas, here's my general advice:

1) If you earn low wages and have no prospect of higher wages in the foreseeable future, go ahead and marry. Choose the most stunning girl you can get, no reason to settle for a "nice" girl. The girl will eventually leave you, of course, as soon as she has her papers, but she will not be able to get money from you because nobody can get water out of a stone. After she has divorced you, go abroad, find another stunning girl and marry again. Repeat until you die.

2) If you're a good earner, don't marry. Good-earners these days no longer marry unless they're fools. Some good-earners arrange paid marriages for their foreign mistresses, but remember that's against the law. I'm a relatively good-earner and I have decided not to marry. It's hard because I meet so many gorgeous girls on my trips and I must leave them where they are. But I know that there's no exception to the marriage/divorce scam: if I marry, I soon end up paying up all my life.

This general advice may become out of date soon, for over here in Europe, the Feminocracy (=the State) is already cracking down on pennyless men marrying beautiful foreign girls. Consulates are advised not to grant marriage visas if the prospective husband is unemployed.

One Wing Low
05-28-06, 15:35
I found even highly educated, high-achieving American girls would much rather find husbands with good earnings, so they can stay home, take it easy, taking care of babies, enjoying their home lives....

Some like to stay home to enjoy the company of their children. Some dont give shit about children, just want to stay home, lying in beds most of the time. Of course they all want great sex, lots of it, whenever they feel like it.

Some of these girls I knew were MDs, PhDs in Sciences, MAs, MBAs, JDs...How I found out? They confided in me. I found 50 years after the so-called liberation of American women, even the highly-educated and highly-skilled US women really just want to be housewives. Women generally do not like to deal with the problems of the real world. It's just their nature.

My observations may not be scientifically valid, as the girls I knew were the attractive, cultured types. The less attractive girls may have better work ethics. The hard-working professional women I know are usually raving bitches. You would never want to be their friends, left alone their husbands.

You would have a tough time trying to change women's nature. It's better just to accept their nature and try to work around it.

Both men and women will use whatever leverages they have to get what they want out of relationships. Just remember the laws in the US are designed to protect both parties from being exploited in marriages, especially when there are children. The legal system will favor the care and protection of children first. There is not much room to get around it. I know guys who moved to 3rd world countries to avoid paying alimony and child support. They were fairly quickly arrested and handed back to US authorities, facing jail time, big legal bills, and then having to pay all due alimony and child support with interest!

If you only want casual and sexual company from women, it's better and cheaper to pay for it. With a little bit of money, even American girls could produce excellent GFE. Foreign girls can even produce better GFE, hoping to marry guys with good jobs and big houses in the free, secured and prosperous America.

The women who insist on marriage are like the prostitutes who insist on up front payments. Their services are usually poor after the money is handed over. If 2 people truly love each other, they should be willing to live together and take care of each other without that marriage license. However, the right women for you may have high prices and may not be willing to go into such arangements.


One of my friends recently married a girl from Latin America and it changed his life completely.
Her always ready and willing ways have changed too. She refuses to fuck Manolo when she feels pissed or simply not in the mood. Before she would pick up after him and cook without complaint, but now she bitches at him for leaving his paperwork on the kitchen counter or the dining table.

Manolo often tells Salome that she has changed and has become Americanized which results in his being warned to shut up before she throws a random object at him. She has joined a network of foreign wives from Latin America who converse in Spanish by phone on a daily basis sharing tidbits on how to keep their gringo husbands in line. As for Manolo, this has to be true love because after three wives and four children he can’t afford for it not to be.

Proliberalist
05-28-06, 15:57
Good advice, thanks. Howver, It would help if you provided a bit more info as to who should be considering themselves a "good earner" . Some monetary reference to the level of wages or salary would help.

Thanks

George90
05-28-06, 17:21
This general advice may become out of date soon, for over here in Europe, the Feminocracy (=the State) is already cracking down on pennyless men marrying beautiful foreign girls. Consulates are advised not to grant marriage visas if the prospective husband is unemployed.

It is already out of date here in the US. The new International Marriage Broker Regulation Act limits the frequency with which a US man can petition a fiancee or wife. He has to wait 3 years between each petition. He has to provide INS with a history of his marriages. If he is a serial groom, as you advise, his petitions for visas for his fianceees / wives can be rejected. This Act was signed by Bush in January.

George90
05-28-06, 17:34
My observations may not be scientifically valid, as the girls I knew were the attractive, cultured types. The less attractive girls may have better work ethics.

I am not a pollster so I can't comment on scientific validity, but I do know that others have found the same thing you did. Last year, some polled female students at Yale University and found that almost half planned to drop out of the work force when they had children. These women, age 19-21, expected to have high earning husbands who could support them while they raised their children.

To me it seemed that they were doing what women over the ages have done, gone to college to get an MRS degree! The worked hard to get into a Ivy league college so they could get an Ivy League husband with an Ivy League salary.

Lima Busy
05-28-06, 21:53
i was reading recently that over four million americans have permanently moved abroad in recent years to pursue a new life. this trend does not seem to be abating and has generated particular concern with the i.r.s. so much so that they recently hired more than a 100 auditors to try and catch those of us who no longer pay taxes. while marrying that young foreign beauty is a no-brainer, there are many things associated with that decision that require planning.

in my experience the most intelligent man would choose the country or at least the continent he wished to live in before choosing his spouse. this decision would be based on a deep appreciation for a countries culture and people. this decision more than likely was influenced by prior business, vacation and military travel.

obviously cost of living and portability of income must be weighed. hobbies and interests also have a role as i met many an expat bored to tears and many others who have discovered new sports and activities to occupy their time.

other more important decisions regard family and finance!

old family- most of us realizes that we will be leaving our families behind. this has been mitigated to a great extent by the advances in technology but do not assume that every country has hi-speed internet available in your new home. we all have our own travel limits and my decision was to be no more than 8 hours from nyc. for most of us this will limit our choices to major cities with an abundance of direct flights,

new family- being in your 40’s or 50’s and marrying that 20 something beauty comes at a price. first it is implicit in the bargain that you give her children. second in most developing countries you will be expected to provide some degree of financial support for her family members. it is primarily the mother we are speaking about, unless there are other siblings.

(note) i married a girl with two equally beautiful twin sisters, knowing that i can marry them off to other “gringos” in the future and share the burden.

sex- the problem is reversed here as she is the one who wants it twice a day. while heaven at first it leads to longer term problems that can and will destroy the relationship.
we all know that sustained use of viagra will cause blindness and the problem was never ed to begin with. my wife solved that problem for me by introducing me to an amazon plant that men and women have been using in peru since the dawn of civilization. i have found this to be utterly amazing and often wonder why i never read references to it.

prejudice/racism- this applies to all countries and has two components (one bad, one good) the bad one is obviously to do with your own race and conditions in your chosen country.
the good one has to due with the racism within the country itself to the inhabitants.
in a latin american country the darker women are discriminated against. marrying a white man either american or european gives the women and her family higher status in the community as well as within the extended family.

customs- one should choose a country where the custom is to marry an older gentleman. even though throughout the world young women are more attracted to men in there 40’s than their own age group, most societies look down on the practice. we have all seen the american movies portraying the spring/winter romance. while romantic to the young girls in america, in practice it only works in those countries where it has been done for generations. i have had several serious relationships when living in nyc with women 20 or more years younger and eventually they succumbed to peer and societal pressures. i first realized this cultural difference when i was in my early 40’s and dating a very beautiful 18 y/o. in nyc restaurants we had become accustomed to the stares but when we traveled all over europe we noticed the lack of attention in both france and italy. my first time traveling alone in sa confirmed this for me as i walked down the street and received those admiring glances. in subsequent years this had an impact on my decision.

i realized i have only scratched the surface here but maybe it will stimulate further discussion or get somebody thinking.

lb

Chocha Monger
05-28-06, 23:21
Age is really not a big deal in Central America for both sexes. I've seen just as many older women dating younger men as well as the more publicized older men dating younger women. Perhaps, when sex is easily available in a society people look for more in a mate than the superficial things; or maybe US society puts so much value on youth and beauty that it is strange when we find a society that isn't so obsessed with the young.

Sinanju Master
05-29-06, 01:19
you presented a VERY intriguing subject for discussion. In fact, I was thinking that there should be a checklist for anyone thinking of making that leap. However, I'll be the FIRST to admit that I have NO knowledge or practical experience in the matter. It'd be nice if those who HAVE already taken the leap (for better or worse) could post their experiences on this board.

XXL
05-29-06, 17:12
The new International Marriage Broker Regulation Act limits the frequency with which a US man can petition a fiancee or wife.
Very interesting. The upshot of it is that there's practically no alternative to settling abroad these days if you want to have some sort of hetero sex life as a male. The next escalation will be to prevent Western men from travelling and/or settling aborad. Plans are already underway to adapt retirement pensions to the standard of living of the country where a pensioner chooses to live: if he settles down in a low-cost country, his pension will be reduced accordingly so that he can no longer afford the local girls. Squads of undercover Femdom agents are already at work in many pussy countries. Their mission: to get Western men in jail for alleged sexual crimes. I for one would only think of helping out a fellow countryman in a foreign and hostile country, never mind the crime he happened to be accused of, but the Femdom agents they are mutant beings, they have neither morals nor honour, they will do anything to cause a countryman to end his life in a foreign jail and they will brag about it and become famous for it in the media. Femdom is a Superbeing, a superintelligent form of life that emanates from the networking of millions of female brains throughout the Western World, plus hundreds of millions of hijacked male brains. For everything we men can think of as alternative to our plight, Femdom has already thought of a thwarting measure, ready to be passed into law.


Just remember the laws in the US are designed to protect both parties from being exploited in marriages, especially when there are children. The legal system will favor the care and protection of children first.
One Wing, do you believe this rubbish yourself or are you having people on?

The women who insist on marriage are like the prostitutes who insist on up front payments.
It's not really the women's insistence on marriage that's a problem, it is the fact that if you can't have your chica or garota over here on a tourist visa, marriage is the only way. And before long (see above), even marriage will cease to be an option.

Chocha Monger
05-29-06, 19:56
Robert J. Scholes, PhD with the assistance of Anchalee Phataralaoha, MA

This research was funded under purchase order COW-8-P-0233 from the Immigration and Naturalization Service. The analyses and conclusions presented do not necessarily represent the official position or policy of the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

The Industry

An American man seeking a foreign bride may avail himself of over 200 different services in which foreign women advertise for husbands. There are two types of such services. In one type, the so-called "mail-order bride" industry (representatives of the industry prefer the term "international correspondence service"), women's names, photos, biographical sketches, and addresses are presented in hard copy brochures or on the Internet. In these services, the agency provides the photos and descriptions of the women, who are not charged for this listing. Men who wish to obtain the mailing address of any of the women they would like to contact are charged a fee of from $2 to $5 for each of the mailing addresses.

The other way to contact potential spouses is through e-mail "pen-pal" clubs. These services are generally free of charge. In them, men and women provide biographical data, an e-mail address, and an indication of what type of relationship they seek. Some of the larger, more established of these pen-pal clubs are One-And-Only.com, Friendfinder.com, Match.com, Kiss.com, and Date.com. In these clubs, one can find nearly 10,000 foreign women seeking marriage or long-term relationships. Since these services require access to computers, the women tend to be older and better educated than those listed in the "mail-order bride" catalogs and to reside in more developed countries such as Japan and Russia.

The women are obtained through advertisements in local newspapers and popular women's magazines and, most commonly, through word of mouth.

Based on a scanning of the services listed and information provided by the agencies themselves, we may estimate that between 100,000 and 150,000 women from a variety of countries (including the United States, Canada, Europe, and Australia) annually advertise themselves as available for marriage. The great majority of these women are from two major areas: Southeast Asia, including the Philippines, and Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union.

The Philippines provides a large number of the Asian listings, despite the fact that "mail-order bride" activities have been illegal there since 1986, while Thailand, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Korea, and Japan are also seen often as the woman's native country.

In recent years, a large increase in listings has been due to the influx of services focused on women of Russia and the former Soviet Union. Nearly half (69) of the 153 services listed in one source feature such women. In addition to Russia itself, the Ukraine is the most common country of origin.

The agencies vary considerably in the number of women listed, the geographical origin of the women, and in the length of time they have been in business. One of the largest and oldest of them is Cherry Blossoms, which has been operating since 1974 and lists over 6,000 women at any one time. This company's listings reflect the general pattern of national origin of the women seeking husbands: of the 6,000, over 4,600 are from Asia (3,050 from the Philippines), 1,700 from the former Soviet Union (mostly from Russia and Ukraine), and others from Latin and South America and Europe.

These businesses can be highly profitable. Bob Burrows, president of Cherry Blossoms, reports that his agency serves over 1,000 men per month who pay up to $200 each.

The growth of these services has been phenomenal. Glodava and Onizuka (1994) report that there were 100 such companies in existence at the time of their writing. In mid-March of 1998, when work on this present report began, there were 153 listings in goodwife.com and in early May, less than two months later, there were 202. This list of links breaks down the agencies into four sections--Asian, Latin, Multi-ethnic, and Soviet--based on where most of the women currently reside. As can be seen in the table below, the current rapid growth is due largely to agencies representing women from Russia and the former Soviet Union.

March, 1998 May, 1998
Asian 38 55
Latin 20 24
Multi-ethni 26 28
Soviet 69 105
Total 153 202


The Women

An analysis of the listings in recent issues of five popular catalogs featuring 1,400 Asian women found that 70 percent were Filipino (despite the fact that Republic Act No. 6955 makes such listings illegal), many of whom are "in-service" as domestic workers in other countries, 16 percent Indonesian, 8 percent Thai, 2 percent Malaysian and Japanese, and 1 percent Chinese and Korean. In terms of age, 20 percent are 16-20 years of age, 41 percent are 21-25, 24 percent are 26-30, 11 percent 31-35, and just 4 percent are over the age of 35. That is, for the Asian women, 61 percent are under the age of 25. There is a large difference in ages between these Asian women and their counterparts from the former Soviet Union. For the 1,700 Soviet women listed currently by Cherry Blossoms, just 8 percent are under 20, 23 percent between 21 and 25, 25 percent between 26 and 30, 20 percent from 31 to 35, 14 percent from 36 to 40, 7 percent aged 41 to 45, and 3 percent over 45. That is, just 31 percent are under 25 compared to the 61 percent of Asian women.

Why do foreign women want American husbands? Many sources suggest that these women are searching for a "better life" in terms of socio-economic factors--they do, for the most part, come from places in which jobs and educational opportunities for women are scarce and wages are low. However, when the women themselves are asked this question, the answer generally indicates an attraction to American men (they look like movie stars) and an aversion to native men. Americans, they say, make good husbands while Filipino (Thai/Indonesian/Russian/etc.) men do not. Americans are thought to be faithful to their wives, while the native men are cruel and run around with other women. True or not, this is the perception.

The Men

David Jedlicka (1988, cited in Glodava and Onizuka, 1994) surveyed 607 American men seeking mail-order brides and received 206 responses. He found that the men were generally white (94 percent); highly educated (50 percent with two or more years of college, 6 percent with M.D.'s or Ph.D.'s, only five did not complete high school); politically and ideologically conservative; and generally economically and professionally successful (64 percent earned more than $20,000 a year; 42 were in professional or managerial positions). Their median age was 37. The men came from 44 states, with 22 percent from California, and 84 percent lived in metropolitan areas. Fifty-seven percent had been married at least once; most had been divorced after an average of seven years of marriage, 35 percent had at least one child, and 75 percent wished to father additional children. When asked about their religious affiliations, 48 percent of the men identified themselves as Protestant, 23 percent as Catholic, 15 percent as belonging to other religions, and 14 percent as having no religious affiliation.

Why do American men want foreign wives? Most of the personal reports from American men who have married women through these agencies talk about "traditional values." That is, American women are thought not content to be wives and mothers but seek personal satisfaction through their own careers and interests, while the foreign woman is happy to be the homemaker and asks for nothing more than husband, home, and family. Again, true or not, this is the perception.

Although Jedlicka states in his conclusions that his research shows the men who choose the mail-order methods for mate selection appear ". . . above average . . . certainly in their communication skills," and "exceptional in the sense that they are trying cross-cultural marriage to improve their chances for loving and enduring relationships," he cautions that such conclusions are thin at best and such interpretations from these data are not warranted. His experience and the observations of others show that, contrary to responses in questionnaires, those who have used the mail-order bride route to find a mate have control in mind more than a loving, enduring relationship.

Of the 30 mail-order bride couples Mila Glodava (Glodava and Onizuka, 1994) encountered between 1986 and 1993, only two were close in age (4 -6 years difference). In the other 28 there was a 20 to 50 year difference in age. Older men, says Glodava, often want women "they can mold" and therefore do not want those who are too educated. "They would just become like any other American woman," they said. She concludes that, "It is apparent that power and control are critical for the men."

It is interesting to note that the views above on native and foreign men and women are not limited to the Occident--a similar attitude exists in Taiwan. According to "Taiwan Moves to Boost Women's Marriage Prospects" (The Associated Press, Aug. 30, 1996, by Annie Huang), many Taiwanese men prefer brides from other Asian countries because they feel Taiwanese women--who tend to be better educated and more affluent--expect too much from their husbands. Due to this attitude, Taiwan has imposed a limit on the number of brides from certain countries that can enter Taiwan each year--360 from Indonesia, 420 from Burma, and 1,080 from China. On the women's side, many of them are seeking Western men since, they say, Taiwanese men want to marry only hard-working obedient drudges while Taiwanese women have discarded this traditional role and are seeking equality and mutual respect in marriage.

Success Rates for International Services

In a survey done for this report we sent e-mails to 102 of the services and received replies from 28. We asked what percentage of their female clients married U.S. men.

Few agencies kept any records of engagements or marriages; some because they are too new for their clients to have had time to marry, some because they have no interest in following up on their listings. Of those that provided estimates of marriages, the ones listing predominately women from Russia and the former Soviet Union countries provided the highest figures--10 percent to 40 percent. Those whose women were largely from the Philippines and Asian countries gave lower estimates--none to 5 percent. In most cases, these estimates were for marriages to men from any country, not specifically the United States.

The only agency that provided firm statistics was Encounters International. This agency has been in business since 1993 and presents 450 Russian women in its current listing. They report 102 marriages to date between Russian women and U.S. men and, in addition, keep records of births, divorces, and locations of the couples. If it is assumed that the agency's listings have remained relatively constant at about 500 women each of the five years of its existence, then 102 of the 2,500 women, or approximately 4 percent, have found and married American men.

According to a report from the Commission on Filipinos Overseas (Paredes-Maceda, 1995) mail-order brides constitute 10 percent of the marriages between Filipinos and foreign nationals. Between 1989 and 1994, 95,000 Filipino men and women were engaged to be married to foreigners, the great majority of whom met their partners through work or personal introductions. Of the foreign men who married Filipinos, 44 percent were U.S. citizens.

According to the women themselves (in written replies to a 1996 questionnaire from the author), approximately 10 percent of these women are successful--they find and marry a man through the service. There are, then, around 10,000 marriages a year between women listed by these agencies and men who use the services. Of these 10,000, around 4,000 involve U.S. men. The remainder is distributed among Canadian, Australian, European, and, increasingly, Japanese clients.

Based on these data, we may estimate that 4 percent of the 100,000 to 150,000 women seeking U.S. husbands through international services find them; that is, "mail-order bride" and e-mail correspondence services result in 4,000 to 6,000 marriages between U.S. men and foreign brides each year.

This figure, 4,000 to 6,000, represents an increase from previous estimates (e.g., the estimate of 2,000 to 3,500 given by Kadohata, 1990) due, no doubt, to the recent increase in both e-mail correspondence services and the agencies specializing in Russian and Ukrainian women.

Impact on U.S. Marriages

According to data supplied by the U.S. Census Bureau, there were 2,395,000 marriages in the U.S. in the 12 months ending June, 1997 (and 1,154,000 divorces in the same period). The 4,000 to 6,000 marriages involving international services represent, then, a tiny portion (.021 percent) of the women who marry U.S. men.

It is interesting to note that, based largely on data provided by the agencies themselves (along with the Commission on Filipinos Overseas report cited above), marriages arranged through these services would appear to have a lower divorce rate than the nation as a whole, fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for which reports are available.

Impact on U.S. Immigration

Statistics provided by the Immigration and Naturalization Service for the years 1994-96 show that there have been over 800,000 immigrants per year, of whom about 18 percent enter as spouses of U.S. citizens; e.g., 169,760 of 915,900 in 1996. An additional 14 percent (130,000) of the total immigrants involves parents and children of U.S. citizens.

In any case, the 4,000 to 6,000 women who immigrate through international correspondence agencies represent less than 6 percent of the new citizens. The majority of the women who gain permanent resident alien status through marriage do so through more traditional means, such as by meeting their spouse at work or in school or through marriage to U.S. servicemen stationed overseas.

Both U.S. citizens and permanent resident aliens may petition for their spouses. While spouses and minor children of citizens may enter without long waits once the paperwork is approved, entry for spouses and minor children of permanent resident aliens is regulated by annual ceilings. In 1996 about 54,000 spouses were sponsored by permanent resident aliens.

Fraud

There is no question that many of the alien women who advertise for U.S. husbands are far more interested in gaining permanent residence alien status than in gaining a good marriage. What portion of the women intend to use marriage to gain permanent resident alien status cannot be ascertained, of course, since we cannot know what is in the woman's mind, but a reading of the self-descriptions they offer and their willingness to marry men of advanced age and dubious character attests to this intention. The true character of the men is well expressed in Glodava and Onizuka (1994:26), who note, "those who have used the mail-order bride route to find a mate have control in mind rather than a loving and enduring relationship."

The most common times for mail-order brides to leave the marriage, according to Martin (n.d.) are "immediately, 3 months after marriage (receipt of the green card), and 2 years after marriage (receipt of nonconditional permanent residence)."

There are reports of a different kind of fraud--namely, one in which women are recruited into prostitution through the international matchmaking services. This new slave trade has not, however, to the author's knowledge, occurred in the United States, although it is a well documented trade involving Russian women imported into Israel (Specter, 1998).

Abuse

According to "The Health Care Response to Domestic Violence" (anon. 1994), "Within the last year 7 percent of American women (3.9 million) who are married or are living with someone as a couple were physically abused, and 37 percent (20.7 million) were verbally or emotionally abused by their spouse or partner."

While no national figures exist on abuse of alien wives, there is every reason to believe that the incidence is higher in this population than for the nation as a whole. Authorities agree that abuse in these marriages can be expected based on the men's desire for a submissive wife and the women's desire for a better life. At some point, after the alien bride has had time to adjust to the new environment, to make new friends, and to become comfortable with the language, her new independence and his domination are bound to conflict. The problem, according to Mila Glodava (Glodava and Onizuka, 1994) and Uma Narayan (Narayan, 1995), is largely due to the men's unrealistic expectations. While many state a desire for a submissive wife, they find that such dependence becomes a burden. To provide some relief, the husband seeks ways (friends, activities) that will get the wife "out of the house" on occasion. The resulting independence then angers the husband who manifests the anger on the wife, who may have only been guilty of trying to please her husband.

Current INS Regulations

Immigration law concerning marriage to foreign nationals contains numerous safeguards discouraging abuse of this means of gaining U.S. permanent residence alien status. In general, the couple must be serious enough to wait for several months, to file a number of forms, and to pay sizeable fees.

The procedures, as outlined by the U.S. Department of State Bureau of Consular Affairs, are as follows.

The Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended, provides U.S. citizens with two options for facilitating the immigration of future spouses to the United States: the K-1 fiancé visa and the alien-spouse immigrant visa. In many cases, the processing time for a fiancé visa is shorter than that for an alien spouse. Fiancé(e) visa processing can take several months from the filing of the petition to the final adjudication of the visa. Total processing time for the alien-spouse visa can take 6-12 months depending on individual circumstances. While the immigrant visa route may take longer, additional processing in the United States is not required, as is the case for the fiancé(e) visa.

Marriage In the United States: Fiancé(e) Visa

U. S. citizens may file an I-129F petition with INS for the issuance of a K-1 fiancé(e) visa to an alien fiancé(e). A citizen exercising this option must remain unmarried until the arrival of the fiancé(e) in the United States, and the wedding must take place within 3 months of the fiancé(e)'s arrival if he/she is to remain in status. Also, the alien and U.S. citizen must have met personally at least once in the 2 years before the petition was filed. For more information about K-1 visas see the Bureau of Consular Affairs' brochure Tips For U. S. Visas: Fiancé(e)s. Legal permanent residents may not file petitions for fiancé(e) visas. They must marry abroad and then file an I-130 petition for the immigration of a new spouse.

Marriage Abroad: Alien Spouse Visa

If a U.S. citizen marries an alien abroad, an I-130 petition must be filed after the marriage to begin the immigration process for the alien spouse. This can be filed either with the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) in the United States, or, under certain circumstances, at U.S. Embassies or Consulates abroad. U. S. Embassies and Consulates have differing policies on approving I-130s and should be individually contacted about the availability of this service. Many posts have their own web pages which include this information and which can be accessed through the U.S. Embassy and Consulate links page. Prior to departure from this country the U.S. citizen should contact the INS or appropriate foreign service post to ascertain exactly what documents will be necessary to file the immigrant petition for a new spouse. For more information about this option, see the Bureau of Consular Affairs' brochure Tips for U.S. Visas: Family-Based Immigrants. For more information on how to arrange a legally valid marriage abroad, see the Office of Citizens' Consular Services brochure Marriage of U.S. Citizens Abroad.

Procedurally, the process works like this. The U.S. citizen or permanent resident must submit a visa petition (form I-130) to appropriate local INS office to prove that the marriage is bona fide, that is, entered into for love rather than simply for the foreign-born spouse to obtain a green card. Attached to the visa petition are the following items: (1) Biographical forms (forms G-325A) for both the husband and the wife with photos attached; (2) Proof of the citizenship status of the petitioner. This can take the form of a U.S. passport, a Certificate of Naturalization or Citizenship or a certified copy of the citizen's birth certificate; (3) A certified copy of the marriage certificate; (4) Certified copies of the documents that terminated any previous marriages of the husband or wife, including final divorce decrees, and certificates of annulment or death; and, in the case of a permanent resident alien, proof of such status. Simultaneously, the foreign-born spouse must submit an application for adjustment of status (form I-485) which is an application for a green card. Items which must accompany the green card application are a completed fingerprint chart and green card photographs, and other INS forms may be required. The spouse can also file an OF-230 with the consulate and be issued an immigrant visa. In both the immigrant visa and adjustment of status cases, the petitioning U.S. citizen or Legal Permanent Resident must also complete an affidavit of support, INS form I-864, on behalf of the alien spouse.

In the case of a mail-order bride, a permanent resident alien would most likely marry the person abroad and then file the I-130. It would be possible for the woman to enter as a visitor or in another nonimmigrant category so the marriage could occur in the United States. The U.S. citizen spouse would then file the I-130 and the bride would file for adjustment of status using INS form I-485.

Conditions

If the marriage is less than 2 years old when the foreign-born spouse becomes a permanent resident, the green card will expire after a two-year period. Both spouses must submit a joint petition (form I-751) to remove the two-year condition within the 90-day period immediately preceding the end of the two-year period. Upon removal of conditions, a new green card is issued reflecting permanent resident status.

If the marriage has terminated by reason of divorce, death of the citizen spouse or spousal abuse, the foreign-born spouse may apply for a waiver of the joint petition requirement.

Recent Changes

Before 1986, when a citizen married a foreigner and petitioned for the spouse, the spouse was granted permanent residence fairly quickly and more or less as a matter of course. In 1986, as a result of concerns about alleged marriage fraud, Congress passed the Immigration Marriage Fraud Amendments (IMFA), which changed the legal process. Thereafter, the U.S. citizen had to petition for what is called "conditional resident status" for the spouse. The couple then had to wait for 2 years after conditional resident status obtained during which time they had to remain married, and then jointly petition INS to adjust the conditional status to that of permanent residence. Both spouses had to undergo a personal interview with the INS, to prove that the marriage was a bona fide one, before permanent resident status was conferred on the spouse (Anderson 1993). The two-year waiting period to apply for permanent resident status required by IMFA begins on the date the spouse obtains conditional resident status. Administrative delays can continue for four years or more.

In 1989, the House Judiciary Committee on Immigration, Refugees and International Law held a hearing on domestic violence in marriages between American citizens and foreigners. Representative Louise M. Slaughter testified that many battered conditional residents had no viable legal options. She introduced a bill, passed in 1990, which provided that battery and extreme cruelty, if alleged and proven, could qualify a conditional resident for a waiver during the waiting period. Initiation and termination of divorce proceedings was not required, if abuse could be proven. This legislation also terminated the condition that the divorce had to be for a "good cause." It held that the termination of a "good faith" marriage involving a conditional resident could itself constitute a waiver, without regard to the reasons for the divorce.

The petitioner, however, must present other evidence to support the application for waiver based on a claim of having been battered or subjected to extreme cruelty. Evidence may include, but is not limited to, expert testimony in the form of reports and affidavits from police, judges, medical personnel, school officials and social service agency personnel. The Service must be satisfied with the credibility of the sources of documentation submitted in support of the application.

Recommendations

Current INS rules and policies seem well intentioned in that they allow U.S. citizens and permanent residents to marry and bring to this country alien spouses while providing some safeguards against abuse and fraud.

The existing problems that appear to require some attention involve abuse. On the one hand, the potential husbands might need to be screened. As Sumiko Hennessy, executive director of the Asian Pacific Development Center (anon., 1996), notes, "What you have are older men, people with three divorces, alcohol problems . . .," some of whom have a history of "domestic abuse or problems with the law." To this end, I would strongly recommend that Uma Narayan (Narayan, 1995) be consulted before any new legislation focused on abuse and/or fraud is considered.

At the very least, alien spouses should be informed of their rights and be given names, addresses, and telephone numbers of agencies they may consult if they face difficulties in the marriage, agencies such as: Legal Aid for Abused Women and Children (703) 820-8393; AYUDA (202) 387-4848; National Coalition Against Trafficking in Women (814) 685-1447; NOW (707) 255-2516; and the Asian Pacific Development Center (303) 220-3398.

REFERENCES

Additional facts and opinion may be found in the following sources:

Anon. (1983) The Asian bride boom. Asia Week. 15 April.
Anon. (1986) Bill would punish alien in fraudulent marriages. Philippine News. [So San Francisco]. 8-14 Oct.
Anon. (1986) Mail-order brides face a bleak future. Philippine Midday. 10 May.
Anon. (1990) Philippine ban on mail-order bride business. San Francisco Chronicle. 14 June.
Anon. (1982) Philippines Popular for 'Export' Brides. The Denver Post. 17 Mar.
Anon. (1994) The Health Care Response to Domestic Violence. San Fransisco: Family Violence Prevention Fund and the Trauma Foundation (english-www.hss.cmu.edu/feminism/domestic-violence.html).
Anon. (1996) Seattle murder sparks debate on mail-order brides. Nando.net.
Agluca, Jacqueline (1994) Domestic Violence and the Filipina in an Abusive Relationship. Seattle: Seal Press.
Agus, Carol (1984) Fed up with U.S. women, single men turning to Asia for docile mail-order brides. Oakland Tribune 24 May.
Anderson, Michelle J. (1993) License to abuse: The impact of conditional status on female immigrants. Yale Law Journal 102 (6): 1401-30.
Belkin, Lisa (1986) Catalogs unite East with West in matrimony, New York Times. 11 May.
Bergin, Wendy (1988) Mail-order brides. 5-part series. KCNC-TV Channel 4. Feb.
Bhabha, Jacqueline, Francesca Klug, and Sue Shutter (1985) Worlds apart: Women and immigration and nationality law. London: Pluto Press.
Breslin, Rosemary (1985) Mail-order brides: Single men find lifelong mates in the catalogues. Daily News. 17 Mar.
Cacas, Samuel R. (1994) The Booming Business of Modern Day `Mail-Order Bride' Services. Asian Week, (14 January): 28.
Cahill, D. (1990) Intermarriages in International Contexts. Quezon City, Philippines: Scalibrini Migration Center.
Calvo, Janet M. (1991) Spouse-based immigration laws: The legacies of coverture. San Diego Law Review 28(3): 590-628.
Clark, Gary (1995) An Introduction to the "Penpal Bride" or so-called "Mail-Order Bride" Movement. On the Internet at www.upbeat.com/wtwpubs/intro.htm
Flynn, Trisha (1985) Mail-order brides. The Denver Post Sunday Contemporary Magazine. 23 June.
Fombi, Paula (1992) Mail-order marriages have high success rate. Pacific News Service.
Foster, Dick (1991) More foreigners marrying their way into U.S. Rocky Mountain News. 26 Mar.
Foote, Jennifer (1991) From Russia with love? Mail Order brides for lonely British bachelors. Newsweek. 27 May.
Gavzer, Bernard (1988) Would you order a mate through the mail? Parade Magazine. 7 Aug.
Glodava, Mila and Richard Onizuka (1994) Mail-Order Brides: Women for Sale. Fort Collins, Colorado: Alaken, Inc.
Heiserman, J. (1987) Family Law Newsletter.
Henneberger, Melinda. (1992) Well, the Ukraine girls really knock them out. New York Times, 15 November 1992, E6.
Hodgin, Deanna (1991) "`Mail-order' brides marry pain to get green cards." Washington Times, (April 16): E1.
Houstoun, Marion E., et al. (1984) Female predominance in immigration to the United States since 1930: A first look. International Migration Review, 18(l): 902-25.
Joseph, Raymond A. (1984) American men find Asian brides fill the unliberated bill: Mail-order firms help them look for the ideal woman they didn't find at home. Wall Street Journal, 25 January.
Martin, M. (n.d.) Why Marrying a Mail-Order Bride is a Weak Idea. Internet site gozips.uakron.edu/~mmartin/mailind.htm#top
Marvel, Mark (1993) From Russia, with love (mail-order brides). Mademoiselle. June.
Massaro, Gary (1989) May-December marriage fails for Denver man, Filipino woman. Rocky Mountain News. 18 February.
Mason, Diane (1993) Foreign-born brides at risk. Hers. Vol. I, No. 2.
Ibid. (1989) Trafficking in Asian Women. Peace and Freedom. March/April.
McQuay, David (1987) Colorado's wife import shop has bustling trade. The Denver Post. 20 Dec.
Mehle, Michael (1989) Honored volunteer aids mail order brides. Rocky Mountain News. 17 Nov.
Narayan, Uma (1995) Male-Order Brides: Immigrant Women, Domestic Violence, and Immigration Law. Hypatia, 10:1 (Winter): 104-120.
National Network of Asian and Pacific Women. Luluquisen, M. Proj. Dir. Equal educational opportunity for disadvantaged Asian mail-order bride and military brides: a self-help program. Funded by the U.S. Department of Education, Women's Equity Act 1988.
Paredes-Maceda, Catherine (1995) Data from Filipino women and intermarriages. Asian Migrant, 8:4.
Peterson, Karen (1982) They send away for the perfect wife. U.S.A. Today. 27 Sept.
Rae, Karen L. (1988) Alienating sham marriages for tougher immigration penalties: Congress enacts the Marriage Fraud Act. Pepperdine Law Review, 15(l): 181,205.
Rivera, Geraldo (1989) Mail-order brides. Geraldo. 15 Feb.
Scholes, Robert J. (1997) AF ISO WM: The mail-order bride. Immigration Review, 28.
Shenandobil, Randy. (1989) Mail-order brides. 5-part series. KTLA Channel 2, Segment 2. San Francisco.
Siew-Ean, Khoo.(1984) Why Asia's single girls head for the city on the double. The Wall Street Journal. 2 July.
Small, Michael (1985) For men who want an old fashioned girl, the latest wedding march is 'Here comes the Asian mail-order brides.' People Weekly, 24.
Specter, Michael (1988) Trafficker's New Cargo: Naive Slavic Women. America Online, January 11.
Tajima, Renee E. (1989) Lotus blossoms don't bleed: Images of Asian women. In Making waves: An anthology of writing by and about Asian-American women. Asian Women United of California. Boston: Beacon Press.
Taylor, C. A. (1990) Mail-order bride: marriage to a Montana cattle rancher. Good Housekeeping, Feb.
Thorn, Patti (1984) Colorado's mail-order matchmaker. Rocky Mountain News Sunday Magazine. 2 Sept.
True, B. (1981) Importing a Bride. Up the Creek.
Tu, Caroline (1987) Mail-order brides: a new product in the shopper's catalogue. The Urban Spectrum. 26 June.
Tucker, Joe A. (1989) Assimilation to the United States: A study of the adjustment of status and the Immigration Marriage Fraud Statutes. Yale Law and Policy Review, 7(2): 20-100.
U.S. Department of Justice. (1986) Memorandum: Immigration Marriage Fraud Amendments of 1986 19 Nov.
Villipando, Venny. (1989) The business of selling mail-order brides. In Making waves: An anthology of writing by and about Asian-American women. Asian Women United of California. Boston: Beacon Press.


Last Modified 01/20/2006

George90
05-30-06, 00:51
Interesting report, CM.

My only criticism is that it is out of date. It seems to have been written in 1998 or 1999 and has no data more recent than 1998. There have been a lot of changes in the last 8 years. Not insignificant is the impact of 9/11 on immigration policies. Still, it is a good post.

Bart9000
05-30-06, 05:15
Someone mentioned the "Mail Order Bride Act"....last I heard, A federal judge suspended it or something to that effect

George90
05-30-06, 05:43
Someone mentioned the "Mail Order Bride Act"....last I heard, A federal judge suspended it or something to that effect

I mentioned it. Its acronym is IMBRA. An introduction agency called European Connections sued the federal government over the Act in a Georgia federal court. IT IS A VERY, VERY NARROW LAWSUIT!!!! It alleges that certain provisions of IMBRA would be such a burden on it, that specific agency, that the law is unconstitutional. The agency also asked for and received a temporary injunction of those specific provisions.

The provisions in question are those that require an agency to obtain, criminal, marital, reproductive, histories of each man who wants to contact a foreign lady, translate that info into the language of the lady he wants to contact, and then ask her for permission (again) to release her information to that specific man.

The government asked for a continuance in March and the TI is extended indefinitely until the government responds.

NOTE VERY WELL!!!! Only the provisions of IMBRA that relate to introduction and marriage agencies is under the injunction. The other provisions that related to a man petitioning a fiancee visa are not enjoined so they are law effective as of March 6, 2006.

Bart9000
05-30-06, 06:17
Age is really not a big deal in Central America for both sexes. I've seen just as many older women dating younger men as well as the more publicized older men dating younger women. Perhaps, when sex is easily available in a society people look for more in a mate than the superficial things; or maybe US society puts so much value on youth and beauty that it is strange when we find a society that isn't so obsessed with the young.

I came to understand something recently....I had heard that Russian girls like to marry older guys.....I pretty much assumed that they were into getting his money. There is something else however......as Russia doesn't have draconian divorce laws the way that we do here, it is extremely common for a Russian man to ditch his first wife after 20 years of marriage, and re-marry one that is hot and young.....this puts the first wife into a bad position, as she is by this time, middle aged, with children, probably no mandatory child support or alimony, and a snowballs chance in hell of finding a new husband to support her into her old age.

Russian women are hip to this behavior......and in reaction, started marrying older men as the girl would much rather go through life as the young hot second wife, than the discarded first wife..

At least that is my understanding anyways...

B9k

Bart9000
05-30-06, 06:35
.... Plans are already underway to adapt retirement pensions to the standard of living of the country where a pensioner chooses to live: if he settles down in a low-cost country, his pension will be reduced accordingly so that he can no longer afford the local girls. Squads of undercover Femdom agents are already at work in many pussy countries. Their mission: to get Western men in jail for alleged sexual crimes. I for one would only think of helping out a fellow countryman in a foreign and hostile country, never mind the crime he happened to be accused of, but the Femdom agents they are mutant beings, they have neither morals nor honour, they will do anything to cause a countryman to end his life in a foreign jail and they will brag about it and become famous for it in the media. ....


Can you document any of this? If you are speaking in hyperbole (think I used that right) or whatever, that's fine, but this seems a little farfetched....I'm sure that there are feminist organizations working to export their doctrine, and have probably had some success, but I have a hard time believing that a government or private employer could get away with reducing pension payments due to a pensioners choice of retirement location.

B9k

One Wing Low
05-30-06, 07:46
Hi George,

Your polls is very significant and interesting.

If almost 50% Yale girls would readily admit their plans to be housewives right off the bat, then it is very likely the other 50% would also want to do the same thing, but are just concealing or lying about their real plans. If they did not plan it, they would probably drop out of the job market anyway and living off their husbands later on in their lives.

When some of the women with the highest level of education and earning capabilities would rather be housewives, then it is easy to extrapolate that those with lower skills and poorer jobs would be even more likely to quit their jobs and stay home to make babies.

Staying at home would also afford the wifeys more time to talk to their lawyers on how to fuck their husbands legally and financially...



I am not a pollster so I can't comment on scientific validity, but I do know that others have found the same thing you did. Last year, some polled female students at Yale University and found that almost half planned to drop out of the work force when they had children. These women, age 19-21, expected to have high earning husbands who could support them while they raised their children.

To me it seemed that they were doing what women over the ages have done, gone to college to get an MRS degree! The worked hard to get into a Ivy league college so they could get an Ivy League husband with an Ivy League salary.

DirkDingy
05-30-06, 12:26
I came to understand something recently....I had heard that Russian girls like to marry older guys.....I pretty much assumed that they were into getting his money. There is something else however......as Russia doesn't have draconian divorce laws the way that we do here, it is extremely common for a Russian man to ditch his first wife after 20 years of marriage, and re-marry one that is hot and young.....this puts the first wife into a bad position, as she is by this time, middle aged, with children, probably no mandatory child support or alimony, and a snowballs chance in hell of finding a new husband to support her into her old age.

Russian women are hip to this behavior......and in reaction, started marrying older men as the girl would much rather go through life as the young hot second wife, than the discarded first wife..

At least that is my understanding anyways...

B9k

russian men are notorious for ditching their wives for younger women; however, russian women seem to go for older stable father figures more than any other women I have been exposed to--looks don't really matter to them as much a security and status do. frankly, i doubt those girls are thinking that far in advance to contemplate being dumped. although it's a nice ancilary benefit for them to marry an older man. then again, slav women go south after 30 and I wonder if a man at 40 is any different to a woman than a man at 47/48. ivan can dump his 24 yo wife when she hits 30 and grab another young one with relative impunity.

i also find it specious that one's pension can be downwarldly adjusted based on one's location.

George90
05-30-06, 15:03
XXL is speaking in hyperbole. Nonetheless, there are current laws that may have a similar effect. When a US citizen moves overseas he/she is still liable to pay US income taxes. If he/she is receiving a US based pension, like SS, there can be withholding tax levied on the payment BEFORE it reaches you. That in effect reduces your pension.

In addition, some destination countries, Costa Rica in particular, are changing their laws to make it more difficult and less attractive for US expats to retire there. I remember reading in this or another similar forum that CR has or is going to eliminate the tax free status of US based income for US retirees. The status quo was that US expats were taxed only on their CR based income not any foreign income. That is going to or has changed, possible under US pressure.

DirkDingy
05-30-06, 15:33
XXL is speaking in hyperbole. Nonetheless, there are current laws that may have a similar effect. When a US citizen moves overseas he/she is still liable to pay US income taxes. If he/she is receiving a US based pension, like SS, there can be withholding tax levied on the payment BEFORE it reaches you. That in effect reduces your pension.

In addition, some destination countries, Costa Rica in particular, are changing their laws to make it more difficult and less attractive for US expats to retire there. I remember reading in this or another similar forum that CR has or is going to eliminate the tax free status of US based income for US retirees. The status quo was that US expats were taxed only on their CR based income not any foreign income. That is going to or has changed, possible under US pressure.

George:

US citizens living abroad are liable for federal income taxes on earnings over ~85K a year. I would suspect that very few people are receiving that amount or more via a pension.

How in the sam hell would a foreign country determine the source and amount of a us citizen's income? I assume that the retiree's salary is directly deposited into his or her US based account. The CR authorities would have to subpoena US bank records....I think you see the lunacy of enforcing such a law. If one is really worried simply have the funds deposited into an offshore, euro, or asian account. If SS has a US based deposit stipulation then do an online transfer for 20-40 (total) bucks from your US account to your foreign account.

i don't know shit about tax code, but are people actually taxed on their retirement income? It seems to me like the income would be subject to double taxation since one already paid taxes on one’s salary while working.

besides, what would a country have to gain by turning away american retirees? i'm sure that they provide a great boost to the local economy. if such an asinine law were to be enacted the guys would just pick up
and go to the next little yellow or brown paradise.

XXL
05-30-06, 15:54
Pensions funds in Europe are heading for bankrupcy. Too many retirees, not enough young people contributing into the system. Too many people (especially women?) getting invalidity pension at the age of 45 and drawing a pension for decades after that (women live on average several years longer, remember).

So governements are looking at ways of saving money, which these days usually means taking from men and giving to women (sorry, I'm ranting again). Anyway, they have schemes like indexing state-pensions to the standard of living of the country in which you retire. A frenchman retiring in France gets the full pension. The same frenchman retiring in Senegal gets one third because the standard of living in Senegal is one third that of France.

Now where does discrimination against men come into it? Simple: women never retire - or spend a holiday - in a low-cost country if they can help it. Women board the same plane as men towards South-East Asia, but they get off in Singapore and fly on to Auckland or Sidney. Men get off in Singapore and fly on to Bangkok or Jakarta. Men travel to do sex-tourism, while women travel for culture and friendship, that's a well-know fact, or at least a that's the official, hypocritical line (the truth, but who wants it these days, is that women do as much sex-tourism as men but they do it differently and elsewhere).

Reverting to this Machiavelic scheme to cut pension payments, if ever implemented it would hit retired men the hardest because the number of male pensioners settling down in pussy countries is high and soaring. Pattaya is full of German pensioners, and filling up with more each year. The only way to stop that is to cut their pensions. That way pension money is saved and, most importantly, sex-tourism is in trouble. As rightly pointed out below, such a law or regulation is difficult to enforce but that, in fact, may be the only reason why it is not yet in force. Significant here is that such laws are being studied and seriously put forward, without being rejected out of hand as they should. They are unjust, undemocratic, unconstitutional etc., but no less than preventing male citizens from marrying the woman they want. We men are in trouble and the trouble is not Ben Laden.

George90
05-30-06, 21:50
George:

US citizens living abroad are liable for federal income taxes on earnings over 85K a year. I would suspect that very few people are receiving that amount or more via a pension.

i don't know shit about tax code, but are people actually taxed on their retirement income? It seems to me like the income would be subject to double taxation since one already paid taxes on one’s salary while working.


Thanks for the info, Dirk. I didn't know about the income threshold. It is very nice to know!

Having recently done my taxes (6 weeks ago), I can decare that pension income is NOT double taxed. We are able to deduct our penion contributions from our total income in computing taxable income. This year $4,000 of IRA contributions wree deductable, or you can make contributions to an employee sponsored 401(k) plan which are deductable up to 10% of your total income. Only our Social Security deductions are not tax deductible.

As for the whether CR or other third world countries are making economic decisions that make sense, I can't say. Lots of countries have governments that make policies that seem to benefit only a small part of their population at the expense of most of it. Look at our own tax policies under Bush. When taxes are raised and services cut to bring down the deficit and government debt, do you really think Bush's oil buddies are going to be the ones paying through the nose?

Lima Busy
06-01-06, 03:30
Uncle Sam takes a bite out of expatriate incomes

By Sharon Reier International Herald Tribune

FRIDAY, MAY 26, 2006

It may have been sold as a tax cut package, but the document that President George W. Bush signed into law on May 17 will mean an extra tax bite for many Americans who live abroad.



Those expected to feel the most pain are expatriate workers who earn comfortable, but not lavish, livings and semi- retired workers earning some foreign income while drawing U.S. Social Security, pensions and other income from U.S. sources. Many of these expatriates will be pushed into higher U.S. brackets, as will employees and independent professionals in no-tax and low-tax areas like much of the Middle East, some Caribbean nations and Hong Kong.



As Steven Horton, a certified public accountant practicing in Paris, put it: "The middle class will get hammered."



Senior employees who collect generous expat benefits, like housing allowances and reimbursement for their children's school fees, also are expected to have bigger U.S. tax liabilities - but their companies probably will pick up the costs as part of their benefit packages, tax experts said.



The new law, however, does contain some good news. The foreign earned- income exclusion, which was under threat of extinction just three years ago, was maintained and will be indexed to U.S. inflation as of the 2006 tax year. That means U.S. taxpayers will owe no tax on their first $82,400 of income earned abroad this year, up from $80,000 in 2005. Indexing had been scheduled to start in the 2008 tax year.



On the negative side, the new law caps the exclusion for housing allowances - rent, utilities other than telephone, property insurance, occupancy taxes, maintenance and furniture rental - that U.S. corporations often provide to executives sent overseas. The cap is calculated as 30 percent of the foreign earned-income exclusion, minus the 16 percent that it is assumed would be paid in the United States. For 2006, it is set at $11,586; under the old law, the exclusion was virtually unlimited.



Another significant change is the treatment of foreign income and of ordinary income from U.S. sources, which includes Social Security, pension income, interest income, income from U.S. partnerships and other investment income, but does not include capital gains and qualified dividends.



The change, known as the "stacking provision," will tax any income beyond the foreign earned-income and housing exclusions at rates that would apply if the exclusions did not exist. Previously, any income beyond the exclusions was taxed as if it were the first dollar earned, and therefore at the lowest tax rate.



Bob Hudson, a senior tax partner with Baker & McKenzie in Miami, said the law essentially ends a "windfall" for middle-class people living abroad. It will have less effect on the wealthy, he said, because they are already taxed at a higher bracket.



The increase may be more hypothetical than real for Americans living in countries where the tax rate is higher than in the United States - a group that includes most of Europe, as well as Israel, Australia and Japan. The United States, as part of treaties to eliminate dual taxation, grants a credit for taxes paid to foreign countries. In high-tax jurisdictions, these foreign tax credits help soak up the extra U.S. tax liability. (The Alternative Minimum Tax used to contain a limit on the amount of foreign tax credits expats could use, but that was changed last year, Horton said.)



Expatriates in no-tax countries like Saudi Arabia and low-tax areas like Hong Kong, where the maximum tax rate is less than 20 percent, will feel the pain more acutely. While Americans who work in these countries are still eligible for the foreign earned-income and housing exclusions, their taxes on any additional foreign income, as well as on ordinary income from U.S. sources, will jump to the higher brackets.



U.S. retirees living abroad on U.S. Social Security, pensions and other investment income from U.S. sources, like interest, should see little change in their U.S. tax bills, Hudson and others said.



"Investment income has never been allowed to be excluded," Hudson said. "The philosophy behind the foreign earned-income provisions is they are supposed to support people working overseas, not people clipping bond coupons and sitting in overseas caf�s."



But the stacking provision means the increasing number of retirees abroad who are supplementing their U.S. retirement savings with part-time work will pay higher tax rates on their ordinary income from U.S. sources.



Multinational corporations, meanwhile, may find themselves paying higher tax bills for their expat executives. Kent Klaus, a partner in the international services practice at Deloitte Tax in Chicago, said that many employers offer either tax reimbursement or tax equalization. Under the former, the employer pays the tax on expat benefits such as school fees and home leave, which are considered income; under the latter, it pays the difference between actual tax liability and what the executive would have paid at home.



The difference could be considerable, since expats tend to have more expensive housing than they would at home, noted Paul Bodner, an international tax attorney in Great Neck, New York. "It is not unusual for the senior person to have a lavish house because the entertainment responsibilities are different from back in the home office," he said.



Up-and-coming managers who might benefit from international experience also have housing costs that typically outstrip those of a person in the United States, since "the person doesn't know the area," Bodner said. "You may have to be in an American enclave because the family needs to be surrounded by people who speak English." So even if the statistics say that housing costs more in the greater New York area than in, say, Lyon, the cost for the expat family could be higher. Horton said the lion's share of the $2.1 billion that the government expects in new tax revenue over the next 10 years would come from "clawing higher taxes away from the oil companies," which send platoons of workers to the Middle East.



How much of the additional tab multinationals will pick up is subject to negotiation. For the most part, Hudson said, employees enjoying posh accommodations "in general are really important people, and the corporations will pick up the bill." Professional staff in demand, like petroleum engineers, are likely to "have enough leverage with their employers" to negotiate a raise or bonus to cover the additional tax, Hudson said. The losers in no-tax and low-tax countries will be self-employed workers, like art dealers or computer consultants, who have no corporate subsidies to rely on.



Apart from renegotiating their benefit packages with their employers, Americans overseas have few ways of softening the blow, tax experts said. They might try to take a page from the very wealthy and rely on capital gains and qualified dividends for their investment income. The new law extends the taxation of this income at 15 percent until 2010 - one reason that some wags have nicknamed the legislation "No Millionaire Left Behind."




U.S. executives warn expatriate tax increase may backfire

By Keith Bradsher and David Cay Johnston The New York Times

FRIDAY, MAY 26, 2006

The sudden, and retroactive, imposition by the U.S. Congress last week of much higher taxes on Americans living abroad has left individuals and companies scrambling to regroup, while many executives and entrepreneurs assert that the move could backfire by hurting U.S. business interests at home and abroad.



The $69 billion tax cut signed into law May 17 raises taxes on Americans living overseas by $2.1 billion over the coming decade.



The law effectively forces many overseas Americans into higher tax brackets by imposing complex new requirements for calculating the value of housing allowances and then taxing the allowance at the lowest rates. Americans in no-tax or low-tax jurisdictions with high housing costs, like Bermuda, the Middle East, Singapore and Hong Kong, will be hit hardest, partners at two major accounting firms said.



The legislation will more than triple the U.S. tax bill for Kristine Kraabel, a gift shop owner in Singapore, and her husband, a former marine who is now the regional human resources director for an American company there.



Their tax adviser calculates that they will now owe more than an additional $17,000 in U.S. taxes, even as they continue to pay $20,000 in Singapore taxes.



Last year the law allowed most overseas Americans to exclude $80,000 of foreign earned income from the income taxed by the United States. The new law adjusts the exclusion for inflation to $82,400 for this year, but it raises taxes by adding complex new provisions on how the exclusion is calculated. The changes are retroactive to the start of this year.



Increasing taxes on overseas Americans was cited in a report last year on tax reform and improving tax compliance by the Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation.



The new law does nothing about the hundreds of thousands of Americans living overseas who have stopped filing income tax returns, even though Congress taxes Americans on their worldwide income regardless of where they live. "This law is targeted at those who are filing tax returns, not those who have stopped filing," said Peter Merrill, a partner in the national economic practice of PricewaterhouseCoopers in Washington.



Merrill also said that he could "see no deep tax policy reason for this change," which he characterized as a way to raise money from one group of taxpayers to offset cuts for others. Other tax experts said they concurred in that assessment.



Many overseas Americans say the measure will hurt exports and employment in the United States. Jack Whiteford, a regional sales manager in Taipei, said that in the past five years he had negotiated export deals that have created 75 full-time mining jobs in the southeastern United States.



But Whiteford said he was now worried that his employer, whom he declined to identify, might not indemnify him against the much higher taxes he will face under the new law, making it far less attractive for him to stay overseas.



"It's pulling money out of all of our pockets," he said.



Michael Abdalian, a tax partner in Ernst & Young's human capital practice, said he had spoken to many employers in the past week about the increased tax burden. "Most companies have programs designed to protect their employees from additional taxes," he said, so the expense will probably be borne by employers.



Paying the higher taxes and then the taxes on the higher income to cover the taxes is a costly proposition, Abdalian said. Because the new rules will push many Americans overseas into higher brackets, he said, many companies will spend $2 for each $1 their overseas employees pay in taxes. The entire $2 will be deductible by the corporation.



Because the tax is retroactive, many families are just starting to realize that they did not have their employers withhold enough tax from their paychecks for the first five months of the year. Many employers will have to adjust their budgets, cutting into capital available for investment.



A common worry among many American lawyers, investment bankers, executives and others living overseas is that their employers will start hiring citizens of other countries instead of Americans. Other industrialized countries do not tax their overseas citizens on foreign income, so these citizens can afford to work for less than Americans and still have higher take-home pay.



Abdalian said none of the many employers he had spoken with were "pulling up stakes and running out" because of the higher costs, but he cautioned that this could change.



Some experts also questioned whether the new measure would generate the tax revenues anticipated by Congress. If companies bring Americans home or some of those overseas renounce their citizenship, the revenue estimates will not hold.



The law may also encourage more tax evasion, especially by Americans who work for foreign employers, who do not pay taxes in the United States and thus may not file tax documents with the U.S. Internal Revenue Service.



The new legislation may discourage American entrepreneurs who have been heading to Taiwan and elsewhere in East Asia so as to be close to high-tech manufacturers while inventing new companies based on Internet phone companies, biotechnology advances and other innovations, said Philip Diller, the chairman and owner of Pristine Communications, a multilingual publishing company in Taipei that processes economic data and other information.



Many overseas Americans are especially upset because the tax increase was approved so quickly.



Lindy Paull, a PricewaterhouseCoopers partner who is a former chief of staff to the Joint Committee on Taxation of the U.S. Congress, said that, like many others, she had "heard the rumor" that taxes on Americans who work overseas would be increased just one day before language to reconcile differences between the House and Senate versions of the tax bill became public.



On the other hand, she said, the concept was raised last year by Senator Charles Grassley, Republican of Iowa and chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, and "we knew the hunt was on for revenue to make the bill work."



The suddenness of the move meant that American Chambers of Commerce in Asia did not have a chance to mobilize, as they did when the idea was floated during previous sessions of Congress. "We were held back by the U.S. Chamber because they didn't think it would be popped in this time," said Richard Vuylsteke, the executive director of the American Chamber of Commerce in Taipei.

DirkDingy
06-01-06, 09:51
fuck. i didn't know. i really don't want to know either. what really sucks is that before if you made 100K abroad you were only taxed on it as if you made under 20K as the first 80-85K or so was tax free. now, to the irs, it's like you are making 100K instead of 20K. Our HR people previously got creative with our partner level staff and minimized their tax liability with per diems and housing & auto allowences. Now it looks like this loophole is closed.

I don't make over 80K anyway, save last year when I was in Iraq, but it still sucks.

i tip my hat off to sen grassey's staff for some skillfull political play. those who are likely to complain are too busy dodging bullets in some warzone or are otherwise unable to muster and mount any sort of meaningful protest.

damn near every american has an elected representative looking out for their interests but the expat....maybe i'll start a pac to address this....nah, i'm going to law school next year so I really don't care...


for the record, I think that americans abroad should pay some amount of taxes to the motherland but i just dont know how much.

Cavechu
06-01-06, 14:54
has any expat heard about monger(s) renouncing their citizenship and gone native for good??

"Some experts also questioned whether the new measure would generate the tax revenues anticipated by Congress. If companies bring Americans home or some of those overseas renounce their citizenship, the revenue estimates will not hold."

Lima Busy
06-01-06, 19:27
has any expat heard about monger(s) renouncing their citizenship and gone native for good??

"Some experts also questioned whether the new measure would generate the tax revenues anticipated by Congress. If companies bring Americans home or some of those overseas renounce their citizenship, the revenue estimates will not hold."
No, It is too easy to get around the tax laws. Remember, Tax evasion is illegal but tax avoidance is a perfectly legal hobby. When choosing your personal paradise you should look for lower tax structure, plentiful beautiful young women, cost of living. I choose Peru (Lima) as they have the worlds youngest population and a 3x1 ratio, low cost of living and tax rates.

LB

Bart9000
06-01-06, 19:42
One of the big Financiers (Geroge Soros maybe?) did it....he renounced US citizenship and became a citizen of one of the carribean nations with no income or estate taxes (they will be back by the way-shouldn't have been repealed in the first place....this was Republican ass sucking to people who have last names like Hilton and Rockerfeller, disguised as "helping out family farmers").

By the way, don't hold me to this, but as I recall, Social Security is partially non-taxable because it is essentially a government administered lifetime annuity payment

You can set up your own annuity payment with cash...as I recall, you can purchase a contract from an insurance company for say 300,000, annuitize it, and have a lifetime payment stream of like 30K annually (some contracts come with COLAS also). They will amortize the payment to your life expectancy, and if you outlive your expectancy, they continue paying you after all of your principle is retuned to you....this is considered to be entirely interest, and is fully taxable. Conversely when you first start taking the payments, it is mostly your own money that is being returned to you (sort of then inverse of a mortgage where most of your payment at the beginning is interest), which isn't taxed.

By the way, check out:

escapeartist.com

for everything you would want to know about expatriation, dual citizenships, 2nd passports....they do want money for some things, but have a lot of free info..


B9k

Night Cat
06-02-06, 01:04
Regarding the research report posted by CM:

Why do American men want foreign wives? Most of the personal reports from American men who have married women through these agencies talk about "traditional values."
...
experience and the observations of others show that, contrary to responses in questionnaires, those who have used the mail-order bride route to find a mate have control in mind more than a loving, enduring relationship.
...
Older men, says Glodava, often want women "they can mold" and therefore do not want those who are too educated. "They would just become like any other American woman," they said. She concludes that, "It is apparent that power and control are critical for the men."
Like so many pseudo-scientific studies these days, this research report looks at the issue in black-and-white terms, and thereby fails to lead us to any truth or understanding.

The report makes no distinction between a man who wants to mold a woman to serve in a kind of master/slave relationship, vs. a man who wants to simply find a woman who has not yet learned to turn a relationship into a power game, and keep her away from those influences, and therefore maintain a mutually cooperative and harmonious relationship for as long as possible. Being an optimist, I am willing to assume (until there is evidence to the contrary, and none was given) that most of the men are the latter kind, and therefore we can conclude just as easily that their interest in traditional values is sincere. In other words, maybe many want control, but only to the extent of being able to avert a "control freak" situation, and no more. The study cynically failed to consider this possibility.

Considering that the evidence presented is open to subjective interpretation, no conclusion is certain. Too bad the scientific method has no way to control for investigators who are too stupid to understand their subject matter well enough to run a study that actually reveals any real truth.

Bart9000
06-02-06, 03:52
Regarding the research report posted by CM:

Like so many pseudo-scientific studies these days, this research report looks at the issue in black-and-white terms, and thereby fails to lead us to any truth or understanding.

The report makes no distinction between a man who wants to mold a woman to serve in a kind of master/slave relationship, vs. a man who wants to simply find a woman who has not yet learned to turn a relationship into a power game, and keep her away from those influences, and therefore maintain a mutually cooperative and harmonious relationship for as long as possible. Being an optimist, I am willing to assume (until there is evidence to the contrary, and none was given) that most of the men are the latter kind, and therefore we can conclude just as easily that their interest in traditional values is sincere. In other words, maybe many want control, but only to the extent of being able to avert a "control freak" situation, and no more. The study cynically failed to consider this possibility.

Considering that the evidence presented is open to subjective interpretation, no conclusion is certain. Too bad the scientific method has no way to control for investigators who are too stupid to understand their subject matter well enough to run a study that actually reveals any real truth.

This is probably the result of observer bias...which an academic should be aware of and guarded against.....also, political correctness-it would certainly be impolitic to dispariage a protected social class like females. At the very least, an academic should know that analysis of human behavior requires more than just a "T-Shirt answer" (it is postulated that any answer to a complex question that will fit on a T-shirt is inevitably WRONG. "They hate us for our freedom")

B9K

Chocha Monger
06-02-06, 06:56
Night Cat:

American women are always ready to brand foreign women as submissive and subservient when an American man happens to be interested in them. The AW who speak so "authoritatively" on the subject, most likely, have not ever had a close relationship with women in foreign countries. These same women when on vacation in foreign countries tend to very obnoxious and often treat the hospitality workers like slaves. They act bitchy, picky and even yell at service personnel. There is nothing even remotely approaching the illusion of worldwide sisterhood among women that they regularly crow about while back home in the US. Doesn't that make you wonder about their genuine concern for their foreign sisters being controlled by oppressive American men?

American women give new meaning to the word "control" with their bitching about toilets seats being left up; denying fathers their visitation rights; witholding sex in marriage; and being unbearably demanding when put in supervisory positions in the work place to name a few. Perhaps, what they really what to say is that control is the sole domain of American women.
Of course, women never want to control anyone, right? Those insane bouts of jealousy and vindictiveness have nothing at all to do with wanting to control men.

The article is a thinly veiled assertion that American men want to control foreign women who in turn exchange submissiveness for a better standard of living; therefore the relationship is a farce. While some cross-border marriages might be contracted purely as the means to an end, that does not mean that this is the case in every instance. American women marry under false pretenses everyday, yet, there have been no calls to tighten regulations on marriage and divorce in the US.

It is rather obvious that American women will accuse and point fingers at anyone who threatens their continued ability to be in control.

George90
06-02-06, 19:12
Men look abroad for wife material for 1 basic reason. AW's want INDEPENDENCE from men. Foreign women prefer INTERDEPENDENCE with a man. A marriage with a forien woman is much more cooperative and much less confrontational and combative than a marriage with an AW.

XXL
06-05-06, 18:45
Too bad the scientific method has no way to control for investigators who are too stupid to understand their subject matter well enough to run a study that actually reveals any real truth.
I think they know too well what they are doing. Much more men who marry are exploited by their wives than the reverse these days and the policy makers or social scientists know it, but the aim of such studies is not to establish either truth or justice but to make a case, so they only go on about men seeking submissive wives. Some submissive wives indeed who can sue for divorce after two year's marriage and get half of your wages during their entire life!

It is useless to argue with Femdom. You refute one argument, Femdom already has five more ready to be pulled out of the hat.

Likewise, I don't think it's a good idea to give explanations as to why we want to marry foreign women. Whatever our reasons, it should be our right to marry whom we want, and it is that right that is being questioned.

Sinanju Master
06-05-06, 23:12
I think it's hilarious when an AW finds that a guy prefers a foreign woman over her, especially when the reason is divulged. Imagine their dismay when their little secret (all the manipulative games and other BS) is out and the guy KNOWS IT. The AW is reduced to being exposed for the second-hand (at best) specimen she is AND her subterfuge is revealed as it was when the Great Oz was busted when Toto pulled back the curtain! It's weird when you no longer care, to catch the stares of those who would turn up their nose at you...

Rock Dog
06-08-06, 02:21
They hate it the same way a business owner hates it when one of his long-term customers decides to take his business to another place across town.

It's pretty much the same comments too. Oh, those other people give a cheaper deal but they suck compared to us. Then they try and make you feel guilty for not wanting to put up with their crap forever so that they can keep benefitting from you forever.

Let's make up a little "Service Comparison".

Local women.... mostly (50 - 75%) fat and/or out of shape.
Foreign women..... very few (5 - 10%) fat or out of shape.

Local women...... poisoned by feminist ideology.
Foreign women..... what's a feminist?

Local women...... view men as adversaries, at best.. someone to be exploited.
Foreign women...... View men as caregivers and therefore someone to be supported and respected.

Local women.... 60% chance of getting a divorce.
Foreign women.... Don't know for sure, but it's got to be less than that.

Local women...... want to marry one that's 10 yrs younger? Mission Impossible
Foreign women..... 5, 10, 15 yrs younger?..... not a problem!

Local women..... have expectations bordering on fantasy, when they look between their legs they see a million dollar asset.
Foreign women... tend to be far more practical and realistic in their expectations. For them, owning a vagina is no big deal, because they know every other girl has one too.

I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

Rock

George90
11-04-06, 23:56
There has not been a post here for almost 6 months. In the American Woman thread, there had been a series of posts about the low quality wives American women make. Several men bemoaned their divorces with AMs.

I objected to this on the grounds that only complaining about AMs is useless. DOING something, such as looking abroad for wives, is the better response to the current bad wife material situation in the US.

One poster wanted to start a flame war with me over that point. I would rather convince more men to start seriously looking over seas for wives.

So let's get this thread active again. Let's discuss how we can find better quality wives in other parts of the world, for those men who may want to eventually marry.

I suggest visiting the websites of various introduction agencies. I am familir with Latin American ones, but there are lots for Asian and Eastern European women. Check out Latin Social Network, My Latin Rose, My Latin Flame, Latin Euro, A Foreign Affair, Cali Charm, All Colombian Girls, Brazilian Romance, to start.

I think I am going to keep this thread alive with commentaries about various agencies, countries, and cities to meet wife material. Mongering is not incompatible with meeting non-pros who may be very good wife material. We need to walk our talk. If we say that American women make horrible wives, then we need to stop marrying them (and then complaining about it) and start marrying women who make better wives!

VoodooMan
11-07-06, 23:34
Hey guys,

I was just curious on what types of opinions i would get from this post. I live in South American now, and absolutely love latin chicas here.

But I am also very attracted to asian women. I've never been to Asia, but have been thinking of taking a trip down to somewhere in Asia for a few months, maybe Indo or PI.

For those of you guys out there that have experienced both Latin and Asian ladies, in your opinions, would you say Latin or Asian women make better wives/girlfriends? Just generally speaking in terms of passion, sex, loyalty, honestly, materialistism, domestic abilities, treating a man right, ect ect. I heard many asian girls can be cold in bed, whereas with latina chicas I've mostly experienced hot times in the sack.
Not all latinas are the same, and of course not all asians are the same, so maybe everyone has had different experiences.

Thanks!

George90
11-10-06, 05:04
Hi Voodooman,

Thanks for posting to this thread. I am not sure how many resopnses you will get. This thread is not so active. I'd like to get more posts on it because foreign (non-American) women are where it's at for wives and girlfriends.

What country and city are you living in? (If you don't mind asnwering.)

I have not had any Asian women from Asia. I am not very attracted to the Asian body shape. I did have a Brasilian of Chinese descent once. She was gorgeous, Brasilian body and Asian face! The best combination!

There are lots of Asian in South America. Brazil has more Japanese, outside of Japan, than any other country. Are there Latin Asian in the country you live in? How are they for attitude? Do they have Asian attitudes, Latina attitudes, or some hybrid?

Thanks for your answers and for posting.

Dodger Bulldog
11-10-06, 06:24
Prior to seeking out a cross-cultural relationship, I highly recommend that you read a great book on this subject, "Thailand Fever." You can find inexpensive used copies at Amazon.com.

Cultural differences and misunderstandings are sure to arise and may ruin relationships even for people who both have the best of intentions.

My own experience came from living in Central America rather than Asia. However, I saw many similarities between the Latin culture I have experienced and what I read about the views and expectations inherent in the Thai culture.

Both look at certain aspects of life far differently than we Americans do.

Don't assume that things will naturally work themselves out. You owe it to yourself to do your research.

Go in with your eyes wide open.

DB

George90
11-10-06, 15:57
Cultural differences and misunderstandings are sure to arise and may ruin relationships even for people who both have the best of intentions.

Don't assume that things will naturally work themselves out. You owe it to yourself to do your research.

Go in with your eyes wide open.

DB

Great advice, DB! I agree with you 100%. I would even go further and say that a man should do that level of research for relationships WITHIN his own culture too! Marriages between Americans are also not "naturally" working out
despite the common culture.

I, and other men who are searching for foreign wives, believe that marriage is between 2 individuals, more than it is between 2 cultures, or 2 languages, or 2 countries. If those 2 individuals can develop trust and very good communication, then the marriage has an excellent chance of lasting and being fulfilling.

So, YES, a man, and his potential mate, need to work at imporving communication and surmounting any obstacles to clear communication that coming from different cultures may present. If the 2 are prepared to do that work, then there is no other reason to discourage him or her from pursuing an inter-cultural relationship, and some to encourage him to pursue such a relationship.

Remember, most men who are seeking foreign wives WANT an inter-cultural relationship because the culture here in the US has become so much more anti-man and anti-family. There is little incentive for a man to marry the average American woman.

Vagringo2
11-25-06, 21:26
Finding a chica in their native country sounds difficult and very expensive. My question is if she is here illigael jumping the border or has a legal visa is it any easier, or about the same and money?

Sinanju Master
11-26-06, 00:52
Quite a while back, this very subject of marrying a foreign woman and living in her home country was discussed. In my eyes, it's a positive because you would be sending her a message that you'd be willing to meet her halfway (or more, since you're moving to HER country) and more than likely, your dollar will go farhter than it will HERE. Also, she will not be corrupted by the culture that has turned American Women into such unpalatable selections. My recommendation is that you DON'T renounce your citizenship, but see if you can pull off a dual citizenship, if possible. Even though there are many negatives about the US, it's STILL the place to live, regarding a standard of living and your personal freedoms (as they still exist). Also, such an undertaking requires research, so, don't wander into this without knowledge...

Robbaf
11-26-06, 01:29
Even though there are many negatives about the US, it's STILL the place to live, regarding a standard of living and your personal freedoms (as they still exist). Also, such an undertaking requires research, so, don't wander into this without knowledge...
I had a friend who was married to a Filipina for 15 years and after he retired (age 41) moved to the PI (a province) and opened a bar. Life was going good for about 6 months, then he had a heart attack and died. His wife thinks that if he had been near a more modern medical facility, he would be alive today. It took four hours to get him to a hospital.

That makes me think twice about retiring in a foreign country.

Chocha Monger
11-26-06, 01:41
I had a friend who was married to a Filipina for 15 years and after he retired (age 41) moved to the PI (a province) and opened a bar. Life was going good for about 6 months, then he had a heart attack and died. His wife thinks that if he had been near a more modern medical facility, he would be alive today. It took four hours to get him to a hospital.

That makes me think twice about retiring in a foreign country.
Whether or not it's still the place to live probably depends on your priorities more than anything else. If you want all the trappings of a modern capitalist society then it can't be beaten, however, if your goal is to enjoy plenty of prime pussy then it's at the bottom of the list. If a long sexless life is important then it would be best for one to stick close to home and live vicariously through the tales of others.

George90
11-26-06, 02:48
Finding a chica in their native country sounds difficult and very expensive. My question is if she is here illigael jumping the border or has a legal visa is it any easier, or about the same and money?

No! In fact it is MUCH more difficult. Why?

Well, if she is here illegally, that is self explanatory. Any spousal visa will be denied and she risks being banned from the US for 10 years.

If she already has a visa, such as a tourist visa, then the BCIS will be loking for visa fraud. If you enter the US on 1 type of visa and then request a change of visa ie. spousal visa, they assume visa fraud. You will have to prove that she did not enter the US as a tourist or student with the intention of marrying and gettinga spoisal visa. To marry a foreigner in the US you must request a fiancee visa (K-1).

It is best to meet her in her country and probably marry her there too. It is not that expensive depending on the country you are going to and te number of times you travel. Colombia is a very popular place for American men to find wives. It is a 3.5 hours from Miami. The Dominican Republic is another place close to Miami (2 hour flight).

Check out some of the introduction agencies for more details.

George90
11-26-06, 02:55
I had a friend who was married to a Filipina for 15 years and after he retired (age 41) moved to the PI (a province) and opened a bar. Life was going good for about 6 months, then he had a heart attack and died. His wife thinks that if he had been near a more modern medical facility, he would be alive today. It took four hours to get him to a hospital.

That makes me think twice about retiring in a foreign country.

While what you say is true for many countries, it is also true for many parts of the US. I guess you have never been to Manhattan. The traffic congestion makes the trip to the hospital very long. Studies have shown thathaving a heart attack in New YOrk or more likely to be lethal than in smaller cities due to the extra time it takes to get to the hospital.

Also, don't use an ambulance. They take too long to even arive. Take a taxi to the hospital.

However, in countries more developed that the Philipines, health care is as good or better than in the US, and more accessible due to universal health care. I have heard of Americans going to Colombia or Brazil for plastic surgery because of the much lower cost and high quality. 60 Minutes had a program describing how people were going to India for certains operations or to give birth to their children, mostly because their health insurance here didn't cover what they needed or wanted.

The concerns you bring up are a factor only if you move to a really backward country or live in the boondocks of any country.

Sinanju Master
11-26-06, 03:20
enjoying the trappings of a modern capitalist society is the benefit of never renouncing one's US citizenship. HOWEVER, to enjoy the marital benefits one wants to derive from marryng a foreign chica, having the event take place in HER country is best. To paraphrase what you said (quite liberally) if you are married to a foriegn chica and living in HER country, you're the "Upper Standard" that all other chicas in her country want to achieve. So, if things don't work out, there is a plentiful supply of others wanting to take her place. If I'm wrong, please feel free to toss a custard pie in my face Three Stooges style....

Robbaf
11-26-06, 20:56
Whether or not it's still the place to live probably depends on your priorities more than anything else. If you want all the trappings of a modern capitalist society then it can't be beaten, however, if your goal is to enjoy plenty of prime pussy then it's at the bottom of the list. If a long sexless life is important then it would be best for one to stick close to home and live vicariously through the tales of others.

I said that I would think twice about retiring in a foreign country. I am currently living/working overseas (not third world).

I will always travel for pleasure and if it is my time to go in foreign country, then I will die happy.

Chocha Monger
10-22-09, 09:02
There is little friendship in the world and least of all between equals. – Sir Francis Bacon

Many guys are still out there falling in love with paid pussy. When I say paid pussy I don’t just mean hooker pussy. Poor pussy that you support is paid pussy too. If you want a wife then you need to throw out all of the square shit you learned back in North America or Europe. What does a wife mean to you? If it means a female equal to you then you’re in for a hell of a lot of trouble. A house with two masters will always be divided, and a house divided cannot stand. Learn this. A wife should be a help mate. Think superhero and sidekick. The superhero always has more power and recognition than his sidekick. Make your woman play her role.

You didn’t suddenly become handsome or younger when you landed in her country. Your value is in your G8 status, wallet and passport. In that country you are the prize or the ticket out. Know you wouldn’t just give someone a prize without them having done something to earn it right? Make her earn the prize. Giving you the pussy does not qualify as having earned anything. Give yourself some respect man. Don’t go jumping in bed with that ho. Make her earn the privilege. After all, if you don’t place any value on your dick why should she? Wake up and stop acting like her pussy is gold. In her country her pussy is worth jack squat else some man of means would have had her working her ass off barefoot and pregnant in his house. Her seemingly sweet demeanor is due to the fact that her pussy brings her zero bargaining power in her country and all of the men there are from a tribe that rhymes with Navajo. They don’t take shit from females and you shouldn’t either. You might think playing big sweet pussy will get you her undying love and devotion. Well, you’re wrong. It will get you used like a pussy. She’ll then go off and find one of her tribesmen residing in your country leaving you holding the bag for the costs of importation.

Give her the test. How do you test her? Well, you’re going to need at least a year to do it right. So, prepare to stay in her country for at least that long. Don’t whine about it being too long. We’re talking about finding the woman to stay with you forever and that’s a long time. You should never even consider marrying a woman, much less taking her back home with you, unless she has passed the trials. We’re talking everlasting love and devotion here. This girl has to prove that she’s got the right stuff for admittance into G8 and your household. She’ll be there in the good times but what you really need to know is if she’ll be there in the bad times.

Make that ho go into her purse for you. Give her some story about problems with your account back home and not being able to get money for a while. See what she does. Does she go in her purse, borrow, beg or pawn her jewelry to help you? Remember that pimps get their hoes to sell their ass on the sidewalk in the sun, rain, sleet or snow. A good ho will beg, borrow or steal to make money for their pimp. She’ll be willing to go down in the dirt and die for him. How can you settle for less in a wife? Do not lie down with and fuck a woman who fails to pass this first test. Get rid of her fast. Let her know that G8 dick does not come cheap. Who does she think you are some transient sex tourist willing to pay her for that ass? Hell no! You’re searching for wife material. For every woman that fails this test there will be hundreds standing in line to take their turn. Don’t accept slackers.

If she passes the first test, test her some more. Get her into the habit of bringing home the money from her crap job and giving it to you. It doesn’t matter whether she’s waiting tables, slaving in a factory, or working in a shop. You will then manage all of the money and pay the bills. This is important to build trust and see if she is willing to relinquish control. If she doesn’t agree to this it shows that she still wishes to operate as an individual and forward her own selfish goals. Ditch her or she’ll ditch you after getting to G8 territory. If she doesn’t want to work and contribute to the household she is just another parasite looking for a free ride. Local men will not stand for this why should you?

Pay close attention. Does she clean, cook and wash your clothes without being asked? Lazy, slovenly behavior and a lack of initiative in housekeeping will only become worst in the G8 where sedentary lifestyles are common. If she passes these tests you may relent and give her some dick but this also is yet another test. Does she suck and fuck you before going to sleep and upon waking without complaint? Does she serve “tres platos” (3 holes)? A reluctance to please you absolutely will result in disaster if you marry her.

Observe her carefully when you go shopping or out on the town. Does she bargain aggressively with taxi drivers and vendors to make sure you’re getting the best deal or does she remain in quiet complicity while her countrymen rip you off? If she doesn’t try to protect you then she is dyed in the same wool as her countrymen. Lose her.

(To be continued)

ThatGuy865
10-22-09, 11:51
Many guys are still out there falling in love with paid pussy. When I say paid pussy I don’t just mean hooker pussy. Poor pussy that you support is paid pussy too. If you want a wife then you need to throw out all of the square shit you learned back in North America or Europe. What does a wife mean to you? If it means a female equal to you then you’re in for a hell of a lot of trouble. A house with two masters will always be divided, and a house divided cannot stand. Learn this. A wife should be a help mate. Think superhero and sidekick. The superhero always has more power and recognition than his sidekick. Make your woman play her role.(To be continued)How about the concept of a Team, Where both are equals, so you have to learn to compromise and state valid reason why something should be your way. As oppose to Im king, it is my way or highway. You know like Magic and Kareem, in hockey Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin, in football Brady and Moss. Venus and Serena in tennis.

As the world evolves Men are going to have to adjust to the fact that women are not going to be as subserviant as in the past. Oh yes you can still find countries where this still hold true, but in each it will slowly change and the enevitable is bound to happen there, its only a matter of time.

Westernize countries are only the begininng.

Of course all men like to be the king .. but them days are about over in Westernize countries. So one should learn to adapt, than try to escape the enevitable.

D Cups
10-22-09, 14:55
There is little friendship in the world and least of all between equals. – Sir Francis Bacon

Many guys are still out there falling in love with paid pussy. When I say paid pussy I don’t just mean hooker pussy. Poor pussy that you support is paid pussy too. If you want a wife then you need to throw out all of the square shit you learned back in North America or Europe. What does a wife mean to you? If it means a female equal to you then you’re in for a hell of a lot of trouble. A house with two masters will always be divided, and a house divided cannot stand. Learn this. A wife should be a help mate. Think superhero and sidekick. The superhero always has more power and recognition than his sidekick. Make your woman play her role.

You didn’t suddenly become handsome or younger when you landed in her country. Your value is in your G8 status, wallet and passport. In that country you are the prize or the ticket out. Know you wouldn’t just give someone a prize without them having done something to earn it right? Make her earn the prize. Giving you the pussy does not qualify as having earned anything. Give yourself some respect man. Don’t go jumping in bed with that ho. Make her earn the privilege. After all, if you don’t place any value on your dick why should she? Wake up and stop acting like her pussy is gold. In her country her pussy is worth jack squat else some man of means would have had her working her ass off barefoot and pregnant in his house. Her seemingly sweet demeanor is due to the fact that her pussy brings her zero bargaining power in her country and all of the men there are from a tribe that rhymes with Navajo. They don’t take shit from females and you shouldn’t either. You might think playing big sweet pussy will get you her undying love and devotion. Well, you’re wrong. It will get you used like a pussy. She’ll then go off and find one of her tribesmen residing in your country leaving you holding the bag for the costs of importation.

Give her the test. How do you test her? Well, you’re going to need at least a year to do it right. So, prepare to stay in her country for at least that long. Don’t whine about it being too long. We’re talking about finding the woman to stay with you forever and that’s a long time. You should never even consider marrying a woman, much less taking her back home with you, unless she has passed the trials. We’re talking everlasting love and devotion here. This girl has to prove that she’s got the right stuff for admittance into G8 and your household. She’ll be there in the good times but what you really need to know is if she’ll be there in the bad times.

Make that ho go into her purse for you. Give her some story about problems with your account back home and not being able to get money for a while. See what she does. Does she go in her purse, borrow, beg or pawn her jewelry to help you? Remember that pimps get their hoes to sell their ass on the sidewalk in the sun, rain, sleet or snow. A good ho will beg, borrow or steal to make money for their pimp. She’ll be willing to go down in the dirt and die for him. How can you settle for less in a wife? Do not lie down with and fuck a woman who fails to pass this first test. Get rid of her fast. Let her know that G8 dick does not come cheap. Who does she think you are some transient sex tourist willing to pay her for that ass? Hell no! You’re searching for wife material. For every woman that fails this test there will be hundreds standing in line to take their turn. Don’t accept slackers.

If she passes the first test, test her some more. Get her into the habit of bringing home the money from her crap job and giving it to you. It doesn’t matter whether she’s waiting tables, slaving in a factory, or working in a shop. You will then manage all of the money and pay the bills. This is important to build trust and see if she is willing to relinquish control. If she doesn’t agree to this it shows that she still wishes to operate as an individual and forward her own selfish goals. Ditch her or she’ll ditch you after getting to G8 territory. If she doesn’t want to work and contribute to the household she is just another parasite looking for a free ride. Local men will not stand for this why should you?

Pay close attention. Does she clean, cook and wash your clothes without being asked? Lazy, slovenly behavior and a lack of initiative in housekeeping will only become worst in the G8 where sedentary lifestyles are common. If she passes these tests you may relent and give her some dick but this also is yet another test. Does she suck and fuck you before going to sleep and upon waking without complaint? Does she serve “tres platos” (3 holes)? A reluctance to please you absolutely will result in disaster if you marry her.

Observe her carefully when you go shopping or out on the town. Does she bargain aggressively with taxi drivers and vendors to make sure you’re getting the best deal or does she remain in quiet complicity while her countrymen rip you off? If she doesn’t try to protect you then she is dyed in the same wool as her countrymen. Lose her.

(To be continued)I agree with everything you are saying here, CM. I am 54, single my whole life, and may start looking for a helpmate/sidekick, preferably a degreed nurse. I like Fililipinas but am aware of their moocher families (same thing in Vietnam and I suspect many other countries). Whatever happened to the dowry? Women have reversed the dowry and the rest is history...the decline of the happily married man.

I want a woman with a nice dowry, slim and stacked, educated, nice facial features, thrifty, domestic and a real man-pleaser (as you mentioned). Someone who appreciates my intelligence (I am an American business professor) and romantic side while I serenade love songs on my guitar to her. Someone who tolerates my snoring, and watching football, drinking beer and smoking pot. In return I offer my fidelity, thoughtfulness, appreciation, commitment, love and what wealth I have accumulated in my many years of working hard and wise investments. Do you think this is possible, CM? Are you married?

Gentleman Travel
10-22-09, 15:44
First, Chocha, congratulations on reviving this thread!
I was always amused to see that the "Marrying Foreign Women" thread got virtually no traffic (last post before yours was 3 years ago!) despite some guys alleged interest in settling down with a foreign bride.

I find your observations amusing, with a lot of truth in them, but beg to differ on a few key points.


You didn’t suddenly become handsome or younger when you landed in her country. Your value is in your G8 status, wallet and passport. In that country you are the prize or the ticket out. Know you wouldn’t just give someone a prize without them having done something to earn it right? Make her earn the prize...

Give her the test... This girl has to prove that she’s got the right stuff for admittance into G8 and your household. She’ll be there in the good times but what you really need to know is if she’ll be there in the bad times.

Make that ho go into her purse for you. Give her some story about problems with your account back home and not being able to get money for a while. See what she does. Does she go in her purse, borrow, beg or pawn her jewelry to help you? ... For every woman that fails this test there will be hundreds standing in line to take their turn. Don’t accept slackers.

If she passes the first test, test her some more. Get her into the habit of bringing home the money from her crap job and giving it to you....
I think it is a pretty big leap for you, with your G8 wallet, to ask your girl with her crap job to be financing your cohabitation and bailing you out of problems. This also diminishes your status as a reliable provider. Also, it is unrealistic to think that many of us can spend an extended time in said shithole country.

However I agree with your premise of testing her. Maybe a more realistic test is, instead of providing her with an allowance and paving her streets with gold, as I have heard some guys do while a-courting, make her pay her own way. I don't mean splitting the check at dinner or anything trivial, but paying her own way when she is not with you. If you are going to meet her in some central place, like the capital of her country, or Paris, or whatever, make her raise her own fare to get there to meet you. You may or may not agree to reimburse her after the fact. She pays her own rent and her own phone and has to figure out how to buy you presents.

I disagree that her pussy is worthless, but she should know that it is not enough. It is merely one tool in her man-pleasing kit, along with cooking, cleaning, etc. But her pussy and other sexual skills are an intrinsic part of her worth as a girlfriend or wife, and she should work to maximize their utility.

I agree with your final test - maybe it is the most important. Does she protect you and bargain for you against the predations of her countrymen? Or does she go along for the ride and enjoy seeing you spend money just for the sport of it? Wifey material will want to preserve your capital, to be spent on her at a later date....

Chocha Monger
10-22-09, 18:09
I agree with everything you are saying here, CM. I am 54, single my whole life, and may start looking for a helpmate/sidekick, preferably a degreed nurse. I like Fililipinas but am aware of their moocher families (same thing in Vietnam and I suspect many other countries). Whatever happened to the dowry? Women have reversed the dowry and the rest is history...the decline of the happily married man.

I want a woman with a nice dowry, slim and stacked, educated, nice facial features, thrifty, domestic and a real man-pleaser (as you mentioned). Someone who appreciates my intelligence (I am an American business professor) and romantic side while I serenade love songs on my guitar to her. Someone who tolerates my snoring, and watching football, drinking beer and smoking pot. In return I offer my fidelity, thoughtfulness, appreciation, commitment, love and what wealth I have accumulated in my many years of working hard and wise investments. Do you think this is possible, CM? Are you married?
What you're thinking about is very possible. It would be easier done outside of G8 though not totally impossible within G8 if you're willing to put in some work. Right now, my situation doesn't allow for matrimony due to golden handcuffs within G8. However, I've been able to put some things into place outside of G8 that will allow for that option should I choose to pursue it.

Chocha Monger
10-22-09, 19:09
I think it is a pretty big leap for you, with your G8 wallet, to ask your girl with her crap job to be financing your cohabitation and bailing you out of problems. This also diminishes your status as a reliable provider. Also, it is unrealistic to think that many of us can spend an extended time in said shithole country.

What you don't want to do is present yourself as a reliable provider. Shit any ho will be happy to jump on the train if free meals and a smooth ride are guaranteed. This is booth camp for hoes you want to prune out the ones who don't believe in self-sacrifice and taking one for the team. In all likelihood if she gets a local husband she'll have to work that ass to help bring home the bacon. Should you accept less just because you have a G8 wallet? If you start out giving good wallet you're going to get some real mercenary hoes vying for the wife title and G8 access. The goal is to present yourself as a manager, confidante and lover, not Mr. Deep Pockets. Lots of these girls sell their pussies to G8 citizens and turn the money right over to their unemployed local boyfriends. If she loves you like she claims then she'd be willing to put the money on the table. Women truly in love don't give a damn about how unreliable you are. I think there are plenty of examples out there that demonstrate this strange but true phenomenon.

Of course, what I expect from her is a tall order but she is expecting me to take her on as a potential lifetime liability so I don't think that my expectations are unreasonable. Many will fail the test but that's okay. I'm not expecting to have an easy time finding that diamond in the rough. Prospecting is hard work and many times you'll come up empty handed. Better empty hands than handfuls of worthless rocks good for nothing but dead weight.

You think up to one year trying to find your true love who will wipe your ass in sickness and work herself to the bone to help you should you ever lose your fortune within G8 is unrealistic? Ha ha ha! Gentleman, what is unrealistic is picking up a poor ho from some developing country after spending a few weeks with her, granting her G8 access and an easy life without putting her through the trials. I'm talking forever here, not a prepaid ho on a 2 to 5 year lease. Some guys put more effort into buying a house or car than they do when it comes to selecting a wife. That's part of the reason for the 80% failure rate.

IMHO if a guy can't invest at least a year in the wife selection process then marriage just isn't that important to him. He should stick to mongering and save his money.

Chocha Monger
10-23-09, 07:05
dear sex maniacs:

this is my second installment on finding a sweet gentle and devoted wife from nations outside the g8. this is for men only so if you’re a feminist, feminist sympathizer, or a panty waist now would probably be a good time to stop reading least i offend your sensibilities. there are plenty of other websites on the internet that teach men how to be subservient to women and to fear the sharp stab of a stiletto heel in the nut sack. i suggest you go there and learn how to lick female anuses. just remember in that paradigm there is an 80% failure rate.

now, there are some panty waists out there that actually believe that partners can be equal in a marriage. they can’t. the high divorce rate resulting from this social experiment gone amuck is proof that it doesn’t work. everyone cannot play the same position on a team simultaneously. there has to be defined roles. women only preach equality but they’ll pussy-whip a man in marriage and ass [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) him in divorce court if he lets them. she wants you to pick up the check for dinner because you’re the man. no equality there. she wants automatic custody of your children in a divorce. no equality there. she wants to marry a man with more money and social status than she has. no equality there. she wants you to pay the bills while she hides her money in a secret account and spends it frivolously as she wishes. no equality there either.

okay, on to the business at hand. so the last time you were carrying out trials in an attempt to find a diamond in the rough in the developing world. now, i like the word “diamond” in particular because everyone knows that diamonds are forever. they’re rare and they hold great value. this is what you’re seeking. today’s tip is from the country to the country. yes. get yourself a country girl. life in urban centers tends to be brutal and it hardens people. it makes them become uncaring and unsympathetic out of necessity for survival. get yourself a country girl and take her to the remote rural areas of your g8 member nation. make sure you hire a local detective to explore her past and present. avoid women with family in your country of residence. they are a potential source of bad influences.

keeping her rural is important. in highly populated areas you don’t even want to imagine how many times a day a beautiful woman gets offered some dick in g8. that’s why the beautiful ones develop b*tch shields. they need to do this to repel the constant cock offers. your imported wife will lack the defenses to protect herself against these seemingly friendly males in g8. we know that many males in g8 suffer from chronic sexual deprivation. they’ll think nothing of offering your young sweetheart a couple weeks of their salary just to get laid or whispering hateful things in her ear to turn her against you. the more you keep her away from them the better. the feminists are even worst. many are lesbians and they’ll like nothing more than to poison your young honey’s mind against you. once they get her to hate you they’ll act like concerned friends. before she knows what’s happening they’ll have her turned out licking their clits and getting hit in the ass with one of those huge dick rambone dildos.

you need to keep her in a protected environment. learn her language and discourage her from learning yours. provide cable channels in her language and block all feminist propaganda channels. you know the ones that show g8 hoes running from one man’s bed to the next and going on senseless shopping binges. install monitoring software and parental controls on your computer. install hidden cameras in your house that you can monitor remotely. do the same for vehicles with the added step of installing a hidden gps tracker. all of this should be done before she arrives in g8.

idle hands make for the devil’s work, so put that ho to work. don’t give her time to sit and think on things. have a vegetable and flower garden ready for her to tend to when she gets there. if she’s a chinese ho put her to work in a laundry. if she’s mexican ho get some domestic work with an old lady. make her break herself every payday. a broke ho is less likely to get ideas about taking off than one with money in her purse. any money going home to her family must go through you and limit those transfers to special occasions only. she’s living in your house and she has to earn her keep. don’t allow free rides. stash some of her money away secretly. if she ever decides to divorce and goes to court after your money use the secret stash as an incentive to settle. if she refuses to settle roll it over into your litigation fund. either way you’ll recover some of your importation costs.

DJ FourMoney
10-23-09, 10:49
What you don't want to do is present yourself as a reliable provider. Shit any ho will be happy to jump on the train if free meals and a smooth ride are guaranteed. This is booth camp for hoes you want to prune out the ones who don't believe in self-sacrifice and taking one for the team. In all likelihood if she gets a local husband she'll have to work that ass to help bring home the bacon. Should you accept less just because you have a G8 wallet? If you start out giving good wallet you're going to get some real mercenary hoes vying for the wife title and G8 access. The goal is to present yourself as a manager, confidante and lover, not Mr. Deep Pockets. Lots of these girls sell their pussies to G8 citizens and turn the money right over to their unemployed local boyfriends. If she loves you like she claims then she'd be willing to put the money on the table. Women truly in love don't give a damn about how unreliable you are. I think there are plenty of examples out there that demonstrate this strange but true phenomenon.

Of course, what I expect from her is a tall order but she is expecting me to take her on as a potential lifetime liability so I don't think that my expectations are unreasonable. Many will fail the test but that's okay. I'm not expecting to have an easy time finding that diamond in the rough. Prospecting is hard work and many times you'll come up empty handed. Better empty hands than handfuls of worthless rocks good for nothing but dead weight.

You think up to one year trying to find your true love who will wipe your ass in sickness and work herself to the bone to help you should you ever lose your fortune within G8 is unrealistic? Ha ha ha! Gentleman, what is unrealistic is picking up a poor ho from some developing country after spending a few weeks with her, granting her G8 access and an easy life without putting her through the trials. I'm talking forever here, not a prepaid ho on a 2 to 5 year lease. Some guys put more effort into buying a house or car than they do when it comes to selecting a wife. That's part of the reason for the 80% failure rate.

IMHO if a guy can't invest at least a year in the wife selection process then marriage just isn't that important to him. He should stick to mongering and save his money.

CM I couldn't agree more!

I think its more than reasonable to spend a year testing your potential bride. You didn't spend all that time online and all that money in traveling, in K1 nonsense and wasting your valuable time, only to end up in court in less than 5 years later.

100% of the reason why 80% of the marriages fail in America is because Men are not doing their due-diligence from start to finish. They get so excited to be getting pussy on a regular basis, they figure it will continue into the marriage and well after the first child is born.

They are usually in for a rude awakening, any woman that refuses sex for the tiniest of reasons before children, will refuse all the time because of the children, mark my words.

The 2 biggest problems in American Marriage are Sex Related and Money Related.

These extended into marriage of Foreign Women as well, but if you take the proper precautions this will not be an issue.

GT is right though CM, especially with women say in Russia or Brazil were you have to get a Visa to get in and go through a messy and expensive K-1 process to get them here, the last thing she'll think is your cheap. If she yells at the taxi driver for trying to rip you off or the waiter jipping you change, then she's being protective of you, all good signs.

If she's looking out for your best interest at all times, you have found a winner. But as you said I think it takes a year to find out if that is only so she'll get that pass or she's in it for the long haul.

I will also add those with "local" boyfriends have no intention of leaving, ever. Most women serious about leaving are not even dating locally anymore, they don't feel its worth their time or effort.

I think their some obvious keys that we as "mongers" might pick up that hopelessly lost buffoons miss, sort of like the Middle Linebacker trying to sniff out the run play or the run fake...

Chocha Monger
10-23-09, 15:23
Hi Again, CM. Thanks. Forgot to ask earlier: what is G8, please? U.S.?
The group of the world's 8 richest industrialized nations. It includes the U.S. Canada, Japan and several EU countries.

Gentleman Travel
10-23-09, 15:25
Hi Again, CM. Thanks. Forgot to ask earlier: what is G8, please? U.S.?
What he really means is the G7 countries - US, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and Canada. It became the G8 with the addition of Russia which, for the purposes of this conversation is a shithole country from which you are rescuing a grateful young dyev.

Other old-stock EU countries also count in this equation (Nethlands, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland if it was in the EU) they are just too small to sit at the G8 table.

Chocha Monger
10-23-09, 16:41
DJ:

True. The ho might think you're cheap when you make her break herself for you but are you the type of man who lets a ho's opinion dictate your actions? Once a ho figures out that you care what she thinks and you're trying to please her it's all over for you buddy. Hoes have natural abilities when it comes to mind games and if she smells the slightest weakness on your part she'll play your ass like a marionette. Instead of you breaking her she'll break you. Then she'll leave your ass when you're broke for some other sucker. Never let her think even for a minute that you can't replace her. Don't take shit off of her either. If she starts talking crazy make that ho explain herself real quick. Always remind her that she wasn't shit when you found her and she needs you to be somebody. Knock her ego down anytime it tries to climb that pedestal.

DJ FourMoney
10-23-09, 18:13
DJ:

True. The ho might think you're cheap when you make her break herself for you but are you the type of man who lets a ho's opinion dictate your actions? Once a ho figures out that you care what she thinks and you're trying to please her it's all over for you buddy. Hoes have natural abilities when it comes to mind games and if she smells the slightest weakness on your part she'll play your ass like a marionette. Instead of you breaking her she'll break you. Then she'll leave your ass when you're broke for some other sucker. Never let her think even for a minute that you can't replace her. Don't talk shit off of her either. If she starts talking crazy make that ho explain herself real quick. Always remind her that she wasn't shit when you found her and she needs you to be somebody. Knock her ego down anytime it tries to climb that pedestal.

Here, Here

I firmly believe in giving a woman her space and a right to speak freely. Most women outside America quote know their place. Where things get sticky is this increasing dependence on dual incomes to run a typical Western household. Fortunately many foreign women understand this and are willing to contribute, yet keep keep her house in order.

In my research any man over the poverty line should be able to afford this venture.

Men have things in their woman pleasing tool box as well, too bad many men think its just their dick and their wallet that have value.

DeepCover
10-23-09, 20:40
Of course all men like to be the king. But them days are about over in Westernize countries. So one should learn to adapt, than try to escape the enevitable.

I am reading this bullshyt Choca Monger is posting and bursting my sides! Of course we are gonna have to adapt. Even the men in Third World Countries have to adapt.

Chocha Monger
10-23-09, 23:30
Here, Here

I firmly believe in giving a woman her space and a right to speak freely. Most women outside America quote know their place. Where things get sticky is this increasing dependence on dual incomes to run a typical Western household. Fortunately many foreign women understand this and are willing to contribute, yet keep keep her house in order.

In my research any man over the poverty line should be able to afford this venture.

Men have things in their woman pleasing tool box as well, too bad many men think its just their dick and their wallet that have value.
DJ:

Of course, she can speak her mind as long as she doesn't do it around me or in my house. The b*tch can go preach under a bridge for all I care but she has got to give me my fucking respect when she gets home. As for space, you never chase a b*tch, you replace a b*tch! All I'm saying is that you've got to keep your ho in check. If you let a b*tch off her leash for too long without supervision sure enough she'll bring home fleas.

DJ FourMoney
10-24-09, 00:26
DJ:

Of course, she can speak her mind as long as she doesn't do it around me or in my house. The b*tch can go preach under a bridge for all I care but she has got to give me my fucking respect when she gets home. As for space, you never chase a b*tch, you replace a b*tch! All I'm saying is that you've got to keep your ho in check. If you let a b*tch off her leash for too long without supervision sure enough she'll bring home fleas.

Proper training is key, just like your dog does what its told and doesn't argue.

Men seem to think Women are more like Cats and less like Dogs. I think women can be "trained" just like Dogs and act less like Cats..

My ex Nicole was great in this respect. She would pick me up from work, on time or had a reasonable excuse. She did all the shopping, rarely asked me to go with her or even carry things in. She did dishes, I did them as well. She kept the apartment clean and allowed me to do my thing, she did her's.

She from a relationship standpoint was perfect. The only issue I had was lack of making decisions when needed but that's because women are used to thinking in a Gray Area and not live in a Black and White world as we do.

That and the fact that she's been heavy most of her life. I made her loose weight (or loose me) and she lost 70lbs quickly. Not unhealthy but quick enough. I just felt I could find somebody that was not only thinner to start with but more aggressive sexually. This is a sexually repressed country and it reflect with how women behave in the bedroom. This is one of the main reasons men seek fulfillment outside of marriage - DUH!

So I know how a "perfect" relationship should be, its just too diffcult to get that from American Women without holding something over their head.

With general Visa restrictions presented by much of South America and Eastern Europe, it makes it ideal.

I found this site "International Dating For Men" run by some dude from Sactown who married his 22-23 yr old Ukrainian wife on the first trip (he went to one of AFA's socials). He keeps saying "You are Golden to those women over there". Okay Alfalfa, I know we're "Golden" (Jill Scott) to EE women, but men are being foolish about it, as his wife put it. (another man at the social) "He was showing me pictures of his house, his car, his boat, etc, trying to impress me..." She asked "Why are you showing me this???"

Serial Daters can be avoided in EE, I don't think its too hard. If you have started talking to them months before your visit and their panties don't drop shortly after you touched down, kick that hoe to the curb. In fact after you touch down, if she's not there to greet you and even if she has an excuse but turns her head when you dive in for a kiss, kick that hoe to the curb.

I also think its much easier if your looking LTR, avoid most of the web sites and avoid the nightclubs scene as well. Agencies are overrated and overpriced. Many of those same women are available elsewhere on the net you just have to find them.

Helpmann
10-24-09, 00:51
Why get married at all, let alone to a foreigner? Unless you want kids or the lady is loaded, why bother?

A good stable income proceeded by a solid pension, reasonable proximity to an undeveloped country, and a vasectomy, and you're on your way to paradise.

-Helpmann :D

DJ FourMoney
10-24-09, 06:30
Why get married at all, let alone to a foreigner? Unless you want kids or the lady is loaded, why bother?

A good stable income proceeded by a solid pension, reasonable proximity to an undeveloped country, and a vasectomy, and you're on your way to paradise.

-Helpmann :D

Wait, isn't this the "Marrying Foreign Women" thread?

I want children, I don't know how many of my post you have read but I have spelled that out fairly well more than a few times.

Why a foreigner? Are you serious? Have you tired being married to a typical American Woman? You have a 20% chance of it succeeding inside of five years, 20 percent! If you happen to last that long, it goes up to 50/50 of it lasting beyond ten years.

Chances of me marrying a loaded woman are slim and none. A friend of mine is already a personal assistant/sexual object to a 50something hag of a Hollywood Producer (Steve Harvey Show). I could not be a "kept" man like he is, it could end on a funky argument, she could just grow tired of him, etc, etc. In other words you would be waiting for it to end someday.

How is that ideal?

I would like to find a woman that's well adjusted, mature, educated and knows her place. AW have this notion of being "equal partners" that leads all too often to relationship disaster.

And lastly, why are you here if you disagree with the institution of marriage?

DJ FourMoney
10-24-09, 06:31
Oh wait, I am near a underdeveloped country (Mexico) and while cheap, its hardly ideal.

Helpmann
10-24-09, 15:23
Wait, isn't this the "Marrying Foreign Women" thread?

I want children, I don't know how many of my post you have read but I have spelled that out fairly well more than a few times...1) You have NEVER stated that kids are a reason to get married, but if that's your ONLY reason, you should find some better ones!

2) You have to be the FIRST person to recommend marriage with a foreigner based on more favorable divorce statistics!!

3) Marrying a rich woman who has more money and assets (and no prenup) can be a BIG positive!!!

4) The reason this thread has been inactive for nearly 3 years is because a lot of men on this board aren't foolish enough to get married, let alone to a third world hooker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck Gringo! Because someone who would seek marriage advice on a "Hooker Board" is going to need it.

LMAO,
Helpmann :rolleyes:

Latina Passion
10-24-09, 16:54
The difference between a Gringa and Latina are night and day!

For what it is worth these are my experiences! I have been married three times twice to Gringa and I am currently married to a Latina from South America.

Gringa Wife#1 Not much to report she got pregnant we got married, I know for all of the wrong reasons. A few years later we got divorced, the only good thing is we are still friends to date.

Gringa Wife #2 Where the hell do I begin with this piece of work? It all started out great! She owned a furniture store in Destin Florida called Costal Furniture Designs, I owned a small transport company in Calif, so economically we where on the same level, and home girl had a brothers back. Two months in to dating her I was still going through divorce #1, so my head was up my ass drinking way to much not paying to much attention to my business, so one day I was 15K short on payroll. I called up the future wife crying on her shoulder like a little biatch and she wired me the money by the end of the business day!! That's my girl!

We dated for a few years and let me tell you thing where euphoric between us. We are in New Orleans just kicking it, go to a F---ed up neighborhood at night for some really good food, as we walk out of the restaurant and my ghetto radar starts to sound. I am thinking to my self son of a biatch some shit is about to go down.

Hommies to the left of me hommies to the right of me, I look at the future Mrs X and I tell her Ok this is about to go down so you run and do not look back till you get help! She looks at me and tells me we either run together or we fight together!!! Look I own a Repo company in Los Angeles Calif. so I am not really faint at heart, but I have to tell you guys that is the first time that I have ever felt secure in anyone's arm let alone a female, man after that night I was sold!!!!

A few more events happened that sealed the deal, we are in Vegas and my dump ass drops 5k on the craps table, well baby girl looks at me and tells me, don't worry baby it is only money (my money) we will just make more. Prior to marriage man it was sweet let me tell you,but after we got married her true color started to show!

Prior to getting married, baby girl was 5'8 size 8, 36 firm ass C cup, green eyes, long brown and blonde hair, and weight about a buck 25.

After we got married I got her a Lexus as a wedding gift, soon after we got married she moved to Calif and my nightmare begins! Her so called business, she left her pimp papa in charge of.

So we are as happy as two peas in pot living in sunny Calif, then she gets pregnant gains about 70 pounds yikes, it is all good being pregnant and all! A year after the baby she gains even more f--ing weight, my only problem with the weight is that we where always so active swimming in the pool, at the gym etc.

Two years into paradise the Law Suits start to arrive from Florida and she and. her pimp ass daddy expect me to flip the bill on debt that was her's prior to our marriage. I am like hell no, what you need to do is BK the fucking company or get a fucking JOB!!I am not paying for your parents debt. So princess gets pissed off and loads up the Lexus with every thing that is not nailed down, calls up daddy and sis and flies them the Cali while I am at work, and of course she charges it on my Amex.

A few years later, she gets a B.S. 20k a year Job still packing the pounds, so we decide to take a vacation to Cancun with my family and a few of he friends. The entire vacation is all jacked up and for the life of me I can't ascetain why, she is always in a pissed off mood but we are in Cancun at the Westin, she can at least fake it!

Come to find out that her lover 20 years her senior, wife had gone by our house while we re in Cancun with pictures of her naked. so her dad tells her Julie, Passion is going to be pissed! So she finally breaks down and tells me why she is in such a bad mood. I ask why did you do it? Well you told me I was fat I just wanted to see for myself, my response was damn just look in the mirror. I have to say the sex a few minutes later was GREAT! The rest of the story you guys can just fill in the blanks.

Towards the end the lease was up on her Lexus, so I tell her Ok time to look for another car but this time we are not going to spend over 25k on a car we can put the rest of the money in the bank so look at a Toyota or an American car! Wouldn't you know this little biatch was not having any of that, I want another Lexus, blah, blah, blah!

Needless to say the divorce was a living hell, the only good thing that truly came out of it was I found WSG and discovered that we as men have a hell of a lot more options then women! Men and women are like stocks when a woman is younger her stock is more valuable but when a man gets older his stock option goes up!

In my opinion American women are all about the bate and switch! When you are in dating mood, they look good make a half ass effort to keep themselves looking good, they appear to care about a brother hell they might even cook you a meal or two during the dating ritual, but after you move in together or get married it is all down hill from there.

Let me add this has been my experience and the experience of half of my friends, and we all come form a cross section of America all 6 figure guys. I have black friends in their 40's married to black women in their 40's, white friends in their 40's married to filipinas of the same age, and my nephew black early 30's married to a sister of the same age and education, but all of the above are a bunch of lazy ass stuck up biatches living on the success of their husbands

Part two will be my experience with dating Latinas from different countries and marring again. Be careful what you wish for you just might get it!

Every thing you here about Latinas are true but let me tell you, it takes a minute to get used too!

DJ FourMoney
10-24-09, 20:24
1) You have NEVER stated that kids are a reason to get married, but if that's your ONLY reason, you should find some better ones!

2) You have to be the FIRST person to recommend marriage with a foreigner based on more favorable divorce statistics!!

3) Marrying a rich woman who has more money and assets (and no prenup) can be a BIG positive!!!

4) The reason this thread has been inactive for nearly 3 years is because a lot of men on this board aren't foolish enough to get married, let alone to a third world hooker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck Gringo! Because someone who would seek marriage advice on a "Hooker Board" is going to need it.

LMAO,
Helpmann :rolleyes:

1) That's a lie, in this thread maybe but in others (especially the AW and LTR threads I have stated this)

2) I don't recommended based strictly on statistics, where did you get that from?

3) I don't know any "Rich" women, I don't know any business owners and frankly they all think they are better than me based strictly on what they put on their personal ads. I in their eyes am I loser, why even bother.

4) Foolish? As GT said, some men take more time considering a home or automobile purchase than the woman they are marrying. In that case, it could be very foolish. If you take it seriously I doubt you would get burned.

5) You're not being serious and thank you for posting

Dickhead
10-24-09, 20:45
Anybody who gets married three times is a pretty slow learner, I'd say.

Helpmann
10-24-09, 20:58
Anybody who gets married three times is a pretty slow learner, I'd say.Shit, I was thinking the same thing.

-Helpmann :D

Chocha Monger
10-25-09, 20:22
Anybody who gets married three times is a pretty slow learner, I'd say.
Or an optimist. ;) But seriously that number of attempts is not uncommon in the U.S. I know a lot of guys past the 40 yr mark who have attempted matrimonial bliss on at least three occasions. All would be considered successful in other aspects of their lives save that one.

Dickhead
10-26-09, 01:54
I knew an idiot when I worked for the post office who'd been divorced three timed by age 26. I asked him about it and he said, "I like being married; I just didn't like any of my wives." My guess is he is probably living in the Philippines now.

Chocha Monger
10-27-09, 00:55
I knew an idiot when I worked for the post office who'd been divorced three timed by age 26. I asked him about it and he said, "I like being married; I just didn't like any of my wives." My guess is he is probably living in the Philippines now.
Maybe he enjoyed the wedding ceremony and the reception. If you're poor with nothing to lose serial matrimony can be loads of fun. Marriage was invented by the rich but now only the poor can afford it.

Dickhead
10-27-09, 01:25
I dunno. He was Italian and was one of those guys who wanted to fuck virgins and then I think married them out of guilt. I've never fucked a virgin and wouldn't want to, but I've met a lot of guys like that (mostly Italian). I'm Irish; we're too lazy to try for virgins.

DJ FourMoney
10-28-09, 22:11
I dunno. He was Italian and was one of those guys who wanted to fuck virgins and then I think married them out of guilt. I've never fucked a virgin and wouldn't want to, but I've met a lot of guys like that (mostly Italian). I'm Irish; we're too lazy to try for virgins.

Who wants to waste their times banging Virgins I never understood it...

DJ FourMoney
11-01-09, 06:09
3889 K-1's (fiancée) entered the USA
54.0% left the USA within 6 months
28.2% left between 6 months to one year
17.7% lasted more than one year

1546 K-3 (spouse) entered the USA
70.3% left the USA within 6 months
22.6% left between 6 months to one year
7.1 % lasted more than one year

Can't seem to find more recent information, but its pretty stark.

ThatGuy865
11-01-09, 14:07
3889 K-1's (fiancée) entered the USA
54.0% left the USA within 6 months
28.2% left between 6 months to one year
17.7% lasted more than one year

1546 K-3 (spouse) entered the USA
70.3% left the USA within 6 months
22.6% left between 6 months to one year
7.1 % lasted more than one year

Can't seem to find more recent information, but its pretty stark.From these statistics it seems its better to marry an AW if you want to live in America.

At least the divorce rate is much lower so it seems you have a better chances of the marriage lasting longer.

DJ FourMoney
11-02-09, 12:35
From these statistics it seems its better to marry an AW if you want to live in America.

At least the divorce rate is much lower so it seems you have a better chances of the marriage lasting longer.

Actually the divorce rate among most Eastern Europeans is higher than America, but that's mainly because its much less complicated to get one.

I think the high rate of return (pun intended) is caused by many reasons, the least of which is likely an American Male "Jumped The Shark". As I have said in the AW, I think the main mistake is not doing your do diligence. I would understand working a regular job and her being 5,000 miles away mean you can't do the job properly, but then again the divorce rate is high here for marriages less than 5 years old (80%).

I've also said some men spend more time shopping for a car than putting a woman through the same scrutiny, it goes without saying its likely the cause for foreign bride K1 Visa to fail.

What I have seen from what data is available is that EE/AM marriages tend to be more successful.

ManonsanBoy
11-02-09, 13:37
1546 K-3 (spouse) entered the USA
70.3% left the USA within 6 months
22.6% left between 6 months to one year
7.1 % lasted more than one year

.

I am surprised so many left USA within 6 months. I thought many more would have stayed in USA but left the husband. Maybe it is less attractive than it used to be to be in USA.

ThatGuy865
11-03-09, 03:00
I am surprised so many left USA within 6 months. I thought many more would have stayed in USA but left the husband. Maybe it is less attractive than it used to be to be in USA.Its not that america isn't attractive, but that most women brought here don't speak the language very well. If they have been here less than 6 months they don't have a green card. Finding work without a green card, no real skills, and not speaking fluent english will be very hard. Then too, not knowing anyone, you have to remember they came with the man, not to their family so they have no support system. No transportation.

Even an american moving to another city would have a hard time under those conditions, let alone someone from another country who doesn't have a clue of how the country functions.

D Cups
11-05-09, 17:33
Why get married at all, let alone to a foreigner? Unless you want kids or the lady is loaded, why bother?

A good stable income proceeded by a solid pension, reasonable proximity to an undeveloped country, and a vasectomy, and you're on your way to paradise.

-Helpmann :DYou raise a good question, H. One that is frequently asked by all married men. For me, I guess I don't want to be alone and still mongering in my senior years. I want a sexy, young, intelligent wife that is a good helpmate, lover, friend and domestic partner. If she doesn't have the size tits I want I will bolt them on. If she is not degreed I will put her through school to become a RN. Both in affordable countries, naturally. Geez, the way things are going here in the U.S. I don't see how anyone can afford to retire comfortably here.

'Til then, I am going to f*** my brains out with as many busty beauties from as many foreign countries as I can though! Cheers!

DJ FourMoney
11-10-09, 10:09
I can say this about one K1 I know of personally...

She was desperate to -

1) Find Love

2) Get Out of Germany

Now granted, you don't need to use a K1 to get out of Germany generally but she was in debt in Germany and they won't let you out without some sort of agreement, interesting.

I was going to mention she loves Black Men, but found a connection with some White Guy in Maryland. He sponsored her to come here, got the K1 and K3 (her son is 16) and both flew here with basically just the clothes on their backs and a few belongings.

Turns out he's a complete looser and has threaten to ship her back. Last I heard she was trying to stay but if she went back she would be a statistic.

Its not related to lack of speaking English. Its more related to false promises made and disappointment.

I would say this is more of the root cause of K1's returning to their home countries, than the reasons ThatGuy sighted as those are the ones that are stereotyped.

I don't think many men go around marrying women that don't speak even workable English. That might have been the case shortly after the fall of the Wall in the 90's but that's just not the case anymore, I don't see very many post on the Russian Women Discussion Forum and others like it talking about sending their ladies to English classes, its fairly rare these days.

I think its more a case of men not getting to the woman's true intentions because they were too blinded by getting the pussy or women who have dreams that outstrip reality and are just aren't plain honest.

If you keep your mind clear and your intentions pure, I think its hard to end up in a situation where you're being taken for a ride...