View Full Version : Buying Property in Colombia
Here is a link for information on new apartments in Laquito. For more information, contact Olga in the sales office, she is the primary architect, and now handling sales. The sales office is in Mirador Laquito (new building that is now under construction.
http://www.poseidondelcaribe.com/
Feel free to contact me with questions, (Olga also did the remodel for my apartment in Laquito) Dogman
Cream on Top
01-15-06, 10:52
Maybe it is connected with a FREE chica ?
Oh YES !! in this case please inform us Aussie :D !!
AddictedToWomen
01-16-06, 18:10
So I guess you all want me to start this thread off ?
The Aussie.
Wouldn't mind some basic information on the gotchas!
Latina Passion
01-16-06, 18:37
Fill out the proper forms, to bring in your investment Capital Legally! You buy property and you have no record of bringing in you money thru the proper channels, when you got ot sell it you can get hit with 50% tax on the sell price of your property!
Actually the problem is not taxation upon sale, but taxation upon expatriation. Even without a sale, you can be fined big time for not registering with Banco de la Republica.
Find a good attorney.
I agree with "Cream on Top".
What is this thread doing here on this forum?
This forum is about sex and not about buying real estate.
Aussie Greg
01-16-06, 21:01
Tom 33 is right,
Find a good Attorney and thats going to cost you money, if you find one and if he´s not good then he´ll cost you more in the long run, but !!!!! then you will find out the real way and then your an expert, but by then you have already lost money.
A good Atorney, he´s in Bogota, he knows every thing, his name is Juan and his private number is 3117729472.
He will also tell you if you qualify for a Residente Visa.
HE REQUIRES MONEY UP FRONT
The Aussie.
I recently got a good look at the housing market in medellin, but I don't know what to make of it.
There are literally thousands and thousands of newly constructed, in construction and land cleared for apartments and homes that are for sale in the hills ringing the city right now.
I have never seen that much new construction in one city at one time outside of vegas.
I personally witnessed that two different properties in the - just breaking ground on construction - phase were over half sold already with move in times not estimated until april 2007.
I don't know if this means its time to jump in while there is lots of competition or if its time to stay out because the market is being saturated...wish I had stock in whatever company is supplying the bricks for the mostly brick and concrete construction in the area.
http://www.cemexcolombia.com/index.asp
I just watched a Discovery channel program about possibility of giant earthquakes in the Pacific Northwest (of U.S.) - and about how unreinforced brick masonry buildings are at great risk for collapse with such quakes. Got me thinking about the building in Colombia - does anybody know if Colombia is at risk for such natural disasters, and more specifically Medellin?
I just watched a Discovery channel program about possibility of giant earthquakes in the Pacific Northwest (of U.S.) - and about how unreinforced brick masonry buildings are at great risk for collapse with such quakes. Got me thinking about the building in Colombia - does anybody know if Colombia is at risk for such natural disasters, and more specifically Medellin?
Countries along the pacific coast are subject to a average of 50 or so earthquakes every year. They happen even in the Amazon region of Colombia. Most newer construction of high rises use anti-seismic construction, be sure to ask before you buy!
AddictedToWomen
03-29-06, 16:21
A terrible earthquake hit Armenia in, iirc, 1999. Destroyed the town. It was felt in Bogotá.
I believe Bogotá also has some, but nothing major I know of recently. Monserrate is a dormant volcano by the way: not dead, just sleeping. Don't know about Medellin I'm afraid, check Google?
But what this program may have been about -- I didn't see it -- was the overdue eruption of the super volcano that's currently that tourist hot-spot (no pun intended), Yellowstone. When that blows there's a very good chance it will take life on this planet with it. Different league all together.
And on that happy note, I return you to regular programming!
I just watched a Discovery channel program about possibility of giant earthquakes in the Pacific Northwest (of U.S.) - and about how unreinforced brick masonry buildings are at great risk for collapse with such quakes. Got me thinking about the building in Colombia - does anybody know if Colombia is at risk for such natural disasters, and more specifically Medellin?
Peter Solano
04-11-06, 02:27
Maybe it is connected with a FREE chica ?
Oh YES !! in this case please inform us Aussie :D !!I have to agree with COT on this.
These two topics are not related. Pussy, P4P, SW, and Real Estate.
Except for the fact that potential customers get to meet hot Colombian secretaries at the Real Estate Agencies, public Notaries etc. When they sign the papers.
But it is surprising the amount of SERIOUS emails I received when I was selling the Condo.
One guy from this site actually came down and looked at it. Was not what he wanted. OK, and also did some mongering on the side, sure.
But the point is that even though this is an all pussy oriented site, most men here, do look for a steady girlfriend or wife, and a place to invest and retire.
And some even look for a house or Condo for sale for their girlfriend here. That is not unusual at all. Peter.
I am looking at buying an apartment in Medellin,with the possiblity of moving there in 1year.But i am having a nightmare getting help and information at my end (United Kingdom).And i do not know anyone in Medellin that could really help me apart from Greg and Robert,but i am sure they have there own things to deal with.
Does anyone know anyone that could help me out in United Kingdom or Medellin?
And what is the best way to start the ball rolling?
I know there could be problems becouse I am not Colombian and that I may have problems opening a bank account there.
I would be so greatful for any help anyone can give.
Superboy
Australiano Greg
05-05-06, 15:38
Superboy,
Here is Davids telephone number, he will help you, he bi-lingual and you can trust him, regards.
The Aussie. 316 2576194
I am looking at buying an apartment in Medellin,with the possiblity of moving there in 1year.But i am having a nightmare getting help and information at my end (United Kingdom).And i do not know anyone in Medellin that could really help me apart from Greg and Robert,but i am sure they have there own things to deal with.
Does anyone know anyone that could help me out in United Kingdom or Medellin?
And what is the best way to start the ball rolling?
I know there could be problems becouse I am not Colombian and that I may have problems opening a bank account there.
I would be so greatful for any help anyone can give.
Superboy
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the info ,i will call David soon,Hope to be back at the Mansion in July.
Cheers mate
Marcus
Superboy,
Here is Davids telephone number, he will help you, he bi-lingual and you can trust him, regards.
The Aussie. 316 2576194
Smooth Talker
05-28-06, 19:32
I'm also considering buying a condo in Medellin. I will be looking at condos when I'm there in September.
Greg has posted a contact person, David. Which I'm sure he is good.
Does anyone else have any first hand recommendations on who to use for an agent / lawyer / architech / ect.?
Names of people I should avoid dealing with, would also be helpfull. And any horror stories or happy ones, if people wish to share.
I will post a summary of what I find out when I return from Medellin.
Thanks,
ST
Australiano Greg
07-20-06, 22:18
Gidday Smooth
David is also a qualified Architech, you can also see his work with other Gringos here in Medellin.
Another guy who does real estate here is Andres, his number is 3136127831
Lawers who are bi-lingual,
Juan who lives and works in Bogota, but comes to Medellinat least once a week (he is my personal lawyer) he knows every thing that will consern you.
Fernando, another bi-lingual lawyer here in Medelllin who knows every thing, please pm me to obtain his number
Sergio, not bi-lingual, is here in Medellin and who you can trust, please pm me to obtain his number
The Aussie.
I'm also considering buying a condo in Medellin. I will be looking at condos when I'm there in September.
Greg has posted a contact person, David. Which I'm sure he is good.
Does anyone else have any first hand recommendations on who to use for an agent / lawyer / architech / ect.?
Names of people I should avoid dealing with, would also be helpfull. And any horror stories or happy ones, if people wish to share.
I will post a summary of what I find out when I return from Medellin.
Thanks,
ST
Smooth Talker
08-06-06, 09:54
Thanks for the additional info Greg. I look foward to experiencing all the good things in Medellin soon.
Texas Slim
08-09-06, 22:05
I would like to find out just how mant TRUE real estate investors there are in the Colombia Forum of the ISG. The reason I ask is that there may be an opportunity that exists beyond that of sole proprietorship and partnership B&B's here in Medellin. I am aware this post may be in the wrong place, so my apologies in advance should this need to be moved.
Who I Am: A US businessman who has relocated here to Medellin for multiple reasons. My background is real estate and finance. I have personally originated in excess of 1.2 Billion in 1st lien residential mortgages for various banks in the US. Not tooting my own horn here, just qualifying my background. There are individuals who put my numbers to shame in the US. However, none of them currently live in Medellin.
2 years ago I started my own commercial real estate business. I have since closed 14 properties in excess of 100 million US dollars. I now run my business from Medellin. I am also looking for Colombian based opportunities. These opportunities cover the gambit from import/export to development.
I too would like to own a proper place here in Medellin. However, because my business is still tied to the US, I really need a home that become an investment property whenever I need it to be.
Without going into details, I would like to see if there are other investors (big and small) here who would be interested in collaborating on a truly unique and high end opportunity in real estate here in Medellin. I'm not sure exactly how to tally the results as there are alot of individuals who read, but do not participate in discussion (much like myself, for various reasons).
There would need to be approximately 30-50 individual investors or a combined 5-10 million in allocated funds. This means that larger investors could take down more opportunity. Obviously interested investors would need to qualify funds to participate. Investment slots would range anywhere from $35-50k on the low end to $150-300k on the high end. This is of course open to ALL readers and participants in the Colombia Forum and is not meant to be nor should it be derived that I am attempting to create COMPETITION for current business owners in Medellin. The more collaboration and cooperation here, the better.
I'm sure the real estate savy community can see where this is going and how this could play out to be something really special for the right minded people. I will entertain questions should this post drive enough interest to warrant such. I hope this falls on open minded and business oriented ears and does not ruffle any feathers.
* Looks like I will be tallying interest based on the number of PRIVATE MESSAGES(PM's) I receive. I will update the number below as I receive interested PM's.
4 and counting (including myself). * I need estimates of pledge capital gentlemen.
Slim
AddictedToWomen
08-21-06, 20:30
Anyone got any idea if buying an apt in Bogotá would be a good investment or not?
Seems to be that it would be risky -- the peso isn't the strongest currency around and we must assume its current strength against the us dollar to be temporary. But what really concerns me here is to get any idea of how apt prices have moved in Bogotá.
Anyone know where there's any data?
Peter Solano
08-21-06, 20:57
Anyone got any idea if buying an apt in Bogotá would be a good investment or not?
Seems to be that it would be risky -- the peso isn't the strongest currency around and we must assume its current strength against the us dollar to be temporary. But what really concerns me here is to get any idea of how apt prices have moved in Bogotá.
Anyone know where there's any data?
I don`t see why it would be a risky investment as long as you do everything properly and legal. The peso has already lost value to the US dollar, that was just a temporary faze, caused mainly by the Uribe re-election. The way things look, it will not be long before we see COL$ 3.000 to US$1 again.
Although I can not speak for the rest of the country, here in Barranquilla real estate and construction are on the rise.
Here, depending on the area you can expect to pay COL$ 1.400.000 per SQ/Meter used property and COL$ 1.900.000 or more per SQ/Meter NEW.
Buying in a good area has the highest return, and you can expect to double your investment in a few years.
I personally know a couple of Americans who bough property here and in Cartagena.One of them a recurring customer, wants to buy another house here.
Like everything in life, HONESTY is the best policy, in business the legal way, is the way to go. Peter.
Australiano Greg
08-21-06, 21:08
I guess I´m a idiot if property prices go down in Colombia
Aussie Greg
VipMedellin
08-22-06, 18:18
To those that want to buy properties you could contact Alejandro or myself my cel number in Colombia is 3102901719 or my vonage is 2402359488 I am an expert here in Colombia, I have also lawyers that speak english that could help you make the right decision, I also work with the banks to make it easier to bring your money.
P.S. any questions pertaining this matter please feel free to contact me
Thanks,
Albert Licht
AddictedToWomen
08-23-06, 07:32
I don`t see why it would be a risky investment as long as you do everything properly and legal. The peso has already lost value to the US dollar, that was just a temporary faze, caused mainly by the Uribe re-election. The way things look, it will not be long before we see COL$ 3.000 to US$1 again.
Although I can not speak for the rest of the country, here in Barranquilla real estate and construction are on the rise.
Here, depending on the area you can expect to pay COL$ 1.400.000 per SQ/Meter used property and COL$ 1.900.000 or more per SQ/Meter NEW.
Buying in a good area has the highest return, and you can expect to double your investment in a few years.
I personally know a couple of Americans who bough property here and in Cartagena.One of them a recurring customer, wants to buy another house here.
Like everything in life, HONESTY is the best policy, in business the legal way, is the way to go. Peter.
It will be legal and totally above board.
My understanding is that the recent weakness in the COP (http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=COP&amt=1&t=1y) was due to hedge funds pulling out and that effect is now subsiding. The continuing weakness of the US Dollar (or "US Peso" as I see The Economist described it last year) surely should see the COP continue to hold its current 2300-2400 level in the near term.
Ultimately though, unless the Bush administration succeeds in destroying the planet of course, I would think you're right: the COP will eventually return to its weaker levels as the US recovers -- though that may be some time off.
But when it does, the value of any real estate I hold in Colombia will therefore decline and I'm not sure its reasonable to expect a level of growth in property values that will maintain its value in USD terms.
Hence I'm trying to find some historical price data or experience.
(Albert -- Thanks for your offer but I'm still very much in the research phase)
Peter Solano
08-23-06, 08:21
But when it does, the value of any real estate I hold in Colombia will therefore decline and I'm not sure its reasonable to expect a level of growth in property values that will maintain its value in USD terms.
Property value in Colombia seldom declines, unless you buy in a real bad area, and even there, chances are the property will be worth what you pay for it. Unless you over paid or something out of the ordinary happens.
I bought my house 9 years ago. I paid Col$45.000.000, today with some upgrades it is worth Col$180.000.000. The key is to know where to buy. Good luck in your endeavor. peter.
VipMedellin
08-23-06, 16:16
I would like to give you guys some pointers.
1. As long as we have good security in Colombia real estate will definetly go up I bought a house four years ago and trust me it has tripled in price since then another example I bought about four acres of land near by medellin a beautifull lake that is called "Guatape" four years ago and it also has tripled in price why
SECURITY as long as we continue to have "Uribe the President" which he has four more years, prices in Colombia in real estate are going up 15 to 20 percent per year now.
2. Obviuosly you have to know where to buy and make sure they dont give you a gringo price but instead a real value for your money example old constrution if you get it for less than a million pesos a square meter you are doing good in Poblado my expertise lay in Poblado area and new construction finished 2.200.000 not finished 2.000.000 pesos cop.
3. Will the boom stop I dont think so because Medellin has not even began in the boom I call Medellin Costa rica fifteen years ago with beatifull women.
look at Costa Rica now in Escazu property is begining to cost as much as Florida why TOURISIM
4. I have been living in Colombia a total of 13 years in Medellin a total of 4 years when I first got here you could barely find one american now they are everywhere and buying a lot too. That along with everything is going to make the market go up believe me anyways I hope tis information is helpfull to you guys and remember if you need any helpmpurchasing or bringing your money here I have vast knowledge is in these areas my email is ilcalbert@gmail.com or look at my website www.clubvipmedellin.com
or call me on my vonage line 2402359488 colombian cel number 011573102901719.
VipMedellin
08-24-06, 00:06
This will be more directed towards a question Superboy had.
My name is Albert I am a partner at V.I.P and the owner of International Language Center for you guys out there that want to open a bank account in Colombia let me explain the easiest way to do that. I have a language Institute therefore I can get you guys a student visa by obtaining the visa they meaning "DAS immigration in Colombia" gives you a colombian I.D. that is called cedula de extranjeria the full process takes about ten working days and my cost to do this is $350.00 dollars.
I work with a bank in order to make the process here a lot faster.
Thanks,
P.S. I also do all other visas as well
Albert Licht
Medellin Mike
08-24-06, 14:02
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because appeared to be a commercial message and/or it contained links to a commercial website. Please post reports consisting primarily of a commercial nature and/or reports with a link or links to commercial websites in the Classified Advertisement section of the Forum. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines and the Forum's FAQ for further information.
The roaches are really starting to come out of the woodwork now. Reminds me of South florida in the 60's or Costa Rica in the 90's.
Visa's, bank accounts, real estate, dental work. Ahhh! Fools and their money, so easly separated.
I am currently offering to savy investors your very own "Mini Medellin Mansions" these 50sqm ultra luxury mansions are available with only $99.00 down and the rest can be financed!
SMALL PRINT: $99.00 down, $99.00 a week for 99 years! This offer is only valid for Americans living in the states of Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennesse or California
LB
In a effort to help mongers who are interested in Colombia as a real estate play, I suggest you read the following paper which is informative regarding past trends and the influences that effect the housing market. In light of the collaspe of England and the clear indications of the long forcasted collaspe in the USA, I would be especially wary of R.E. speculation.
Of special note is that during the last bust prices in Colombia declined by 37%.
Well nuff said, here is the link:
http://www.iadb.org/res/publications/pubfiles/pubWP-522.pdf
Thanks for the info .
How long can you stay in Colombia with a Student visa?
Also what other visa`s do you do?
I am looking at getting a Resident Visa do you do that too?
You seem to be the guy in the know,Do you know of anyone that does long term rentals of apartments.I have change my mind and decided to rent first rather than buy.
Superboy
This will be more directed towards a question Superboy had.
My name is Albert I am a partner at V.I.P and the owner of International Language Center for you guys out there that want to open a bank account in Colombia let me explain the easiest way to do that. I have a language Institute therefore I can get you guys a student visa by obtaining the visa they meaning "DAS immigration in Colombia" gives you a colombian I.D. that is called cedula de extranjeria the full process takes about ten working days and my cost to do this is $350.00 dollars.
I work with a bank in order to make the process here a lot faster.
Thanks,
P.S. I also do all other visas as well
Albert Licht
AddictedToWomen
08-25-06, 08:20
Peter, Albert -- Thanks for the information.
LB -- Looks an interesting paper. I need a more careful read of it but first impressions suggest that Col might have risen with the world RE market, so when that cycle starts on its downward path we might be able to see that effect in Col too.
Or in Colombia, in the future, after URIBE leaves office, the poor people of Colombia revolt, like in Venezuela, and elect and maintain another HUGO CHAVEZ.
Just a thought.
Or in Colombia, in the future, after URIBE leaves office, the poor people of Colombia revolt, like in Venezuela, and elect and maintain another HUGO CHAVEZ.
Just a thought.
Superboy,
LT rental is the way to go anytime you move to a knew area. I rented a old restored colonial in Lima for a year before I bought (new luxury highrise). The laws on visa's, banking and R.E. investment are much easier here(But still a royal pain in the ass)if coming from a developed country.
Addicted,
I have no real interest in Col. R.E. and at first blush believe they are still in a recovery cycle. That being said they were affected by the Asian contagion a few years back so there are many unforeseen risks that can and do affect SA R.E. As investors you can only assign risk based on political and economic factors. For now Colombia is politically safe but the economy is not nearly as robust as Peru's. Oil exploration and Mining (the backbone of SA economies) lags because ex-pats are currently forbidden from working outside the offices in the cities. Tourism is on the upswing but will never compete with Peru as far as cultural sights and the cities do not have the same draw as a Buenos Aires.
Ricker,
You are dead on! I have friends that can't get out of Bolivian R.E. and David33 & myself had to sweat out the Garcia-humala contest a few months ago. Living in SA is always a adventure but change here is faster and more brutal than the USA for sure. I sold in NYC 2 years two early but still made 100% in two years. At least we expats were able to see the writing on the wall, here there is no writing on the wall they just come one day put you up against the wall and shoot you (financially speaking).
LB
Australiano Greg
08-26-06, 21:19
I´ve got all the info you need as I have done it, and it will not cost you anything, just ask.
Aussie Greg.
A while back I remember it was a problem for you Greg when a couple individuals asked you for information on buying property in Colombia, as you stated and I quote you "I had to learn the hard way and I had to pay an attorney to gain my knowledge so I am not about to give any of it out. If you want it you can get it the same way I did and I will provide you the name of an attorney". You even resorted to calling a couple members here derogatory names because they called you out on it! Why now the change of heart?. Could it be because of Albert? :)
Australiano Greg
08-27-06, 01:29
I´ll point you in the right direction then its up to you, as far as other people go, I dont know what they will tell you.
The Aussie.
A while back I remember it was a problem for you Greg when a couple individuals asked you for information on buying property in Colombia, as you stated and I quote you "I had to learn the hard way and I had to pay an attorney to gain my knowledge so I am not about to give any of it out. If you want it you can get it the same way I did and I will provide you the name of an attorney". You even resorted to calling a couple members here derogatory names because they called you out on it! Why now the change of heart?. Could it be because of Albert? :)
VipMedellin
08-29-06, 17:44
Superboy:
Sorry that I havent written any earlier I just have been quite busy, but let me answer your questions:
I do all of the visas meaning investment, buss, student. The student visa is for one full year
I can also help you with the residemt visas I am related with the person in charge of the ministry of exterior relations.
That makes easy because if I don't know something I certainly can find out and I also workmwith a company in bogota that takes care of the visas for me.
If you would like give me your american number and I will call you and explain the whole process.
Also for any body that needs to buy real estate or brong money into the country I will be more than happy to explain the process.
VipMedellin
08-29-06, 17:47
By The Way Superboy I Also Work With Agroup Of People Here In Medellin That Does Long Term Furnished Rentals Obviously Depending On The Location And The Size Of The Apart,ments The Prices Definetly Vary.
Albert Licht
Hi,
I sincerely appreciate your reports, but...
Would you please STOP capitalizing the first letter of EVERY word in your reports!
It's difficult to read, it's time consuming to fix, and it takes you more work to write like that.
On behalf of myself and your fellow Forum Members: Thank You!
Jackson
Australiano Greg
08-30-06, 01:17
A step by step course to purchase property in Colombia.
1)
Its best to open your own bank account so when you find your property you can wire your money into your very own bank account in your name, to do this you need a visa other than a tourist visa, business, student will do. The reason for this is, to open a bank account here in Colombia, you need a Colombian Cedular I.D. card and number.
Number 2 tomorrow.
Aussie Greg.
JudgeSchmails
08-31-06, 03:18
AMEN! That has been the biggest mistake I have made in this purchasing process. I did not have ana account opened. There is now a chance that I am going to have to fly back just to open an account.
AMEN! That has been the biggest mistake I have made in this purchasing process. I did not have ana account opened. There is now a chance that I am going to have to fly back just to open an account.
Lots of luck. Conavi required a copy of my cedula(no cedula-no account), a copy of my Colombian tax return, and a personal interview with a bank manager. Then they referred my application to committee. By the time they got around to approving my account application, I was back in the US for the summer. Now I can't open the account until I return in Oct.
I have lived in Colombia for over 3 years and owned my own apartment for 2 1/2 years. I bought my apt. with no account in Colombia and had no problems. Of course I used good people and had a large law firm in Bogota representing me.
Lots of luck. Conavi required a copy of my cedula(no cedula-no account), a copy of my Colombian tax return, and a personal interview with a bank manager. Then they referred my application to committee. By the time they got around to approving my account application, I was back in the US for the summer. Now I can't open the account until I return in Oct.
I have lived in Colombia for over 3 years and owned my own apartment for 2 1/2 years. I bought my apt. with no account in Colombia and had no problems. Of course I used good people and had a large law firm in Bogota representing me.
Guy's,
Tom33 is offering good advice here! The most important thing is to have a reputable law firm. They will set up a escrow account for you to wire the money into and only release it according to the terms of the contract. If you are buying "pre-venta" make sure the builder has solid finances and a good reputation.
LB
MiamiHeatLuver
08-31-06, 18:20
Guy's,
Tom33 is offering good advice here! The most important thing is to have a reputable law firm. They will set up a escrow account for you to wire the money into and only release it according to the terms of the contract. If you are buying "pre-venta" make sure the builder has solid finances and a good reputation.
LB
Good Info Tom, Lima and EVEN Greg! Thats my next step for my CASA in Colombia! I think I will go the LB route with the lawyer and escrow, because I can just forsee all kinds of problems ahead, like giving a $20k deposit on a casa to a contractor then he all of a sudden disapears or something shady along those lines AND then having no-one or nothing to turn too for help in this foreign land! Peace "Chino"
Good Info Tom, Lima and EVEN Greg! Thats my next step for my CASA in Colombia! I think I will go the LB route with the lawyer and escrow, because I can just forsee all kinds of problems ahead, like giving a $20k deposit on a casa to a contractor then he all of a sudden disapears or something shady along those lines AND then having no-one or nothing to turn too for help in this foreign land! Peace "Chino"
I, personally never had a bad experience (Never used a lawyer and did not have a bank account)but I did my homework on builders and got lucky!I did get screwed by the homeowners association who were able to double my maintenance because I was a "Gringo" with a penthouse! I guess I use more electricity because the elevator has to go up another floor!
I have a friend who has bought 4 apartments (used a lawyer) and still got screwed. (Two apartments were never finished and even though there was a clause that the builder had to pay a $100.00 a day fine if they were not completed on time) you can't get blood from a rock! There are guy's in Lima (GyM) is one who will sell out a highrise before ever breaking ground. There reputation is so solid they now put there name on other projects as a consultant/guarantor.
I am an american male with some advise to all who want to live in Colombia. I have aquired my cedula, gold insurance policy , and bank accounts with no problem. I went thru the cedula process in 1 day, insurance acceptance, and bank account opened in 20 minutes. The advice I give is simple, make the right contacts, propina the service people, and be kind and remember this is not America, sometimes its better , sometimes its not. For example , blood work for blood type required for Cedula, blood drawn and typed in 10 minutes at the Lab. Entry into the DAS office/ immigration offices/ in 5 minutes, no appoinment.All with the help of a service provider who was very good at working the system, all the people here know and like him, a big plus. The country is similar to most latin american societies, its not what you know but who, same as USA but we do not like to admit it.
Peter Solano
09-04-06, 20:59
I am an american male with some advise to all who want to live in Colombia. I have aquired my cedula, gold insurance policy , and bank accounts with no problem. I went thru the cedula process in 1 day, insurance acceptance, and bank account opened in 20 minutes. The advice I give is simple, make the right contacts, propina the service people, and be kind and remember this is not America, sometimes its better , sometimes its not. For example , blood work for blood type required for Cedula, blood drawn and typed in 10 minutes at the Lab. Entry into the DAS office/ immigration offices/ in 5 minutes, no appoinment.All with the help of a service provider who was very good at working the system, all the people here know and like him, a big plus. The country is similar to most latin american societies, its not what you know but who, same as USA but we do not like to admit it.
I could not agree with you more. Peter.
VipMedellin
10-03-06, 22:47
I just wanted to let you know to all of the members that I have a lot of expierence in real estate and visa processes so whatever I can do to help please let me know.
Hello, I am moving to columbia,and I am betweeen medellin or cartegana.
What is the expensive/trendy neighborhood in medellin called so I can find apts. in the paper? Reading the forum I think it is called "el poblado" but want to make sure.
I live in a community now that is very relaxed and laid back. I know all my neighbors and is not difficult to walk out of my house and on the beach and talk to people. I know medellin does not have a beach, but is there a similar "vibe" in medellin?
Hello, I am moving to columbia,and I am betweeen medellin or cartegana.
What is the expensive/trendy neighborhood in medellin called so I can find apts. in the paper? Reading the forum I think it is called "el poblado" but want to make sure.
I live in a community now that is very relaxed and laid back. I know all my neighbors and is not difficult to walk out of my house and on the beach and talk to people. I know medellin does not have a beach, but is there a similar "vibe" in medellin?
hey Jon32,
Yes the suburb is el poblado, its nice there and leafy, high end place but I think the people there are snobby.
Go there and see for yourself and travel aroud the area and Colombia before buying and see what suits you the best.
TheShadow2
11-12-06, 05:12
I tried sending you a PM but you were not accepting them.
Saw your post and wondered if you had a name or contact info for the person who helped you get your cedula.
I tried it the old fashioned way, and only made it to having a temporary cedula after a lot of hassles and time wasted. They never did give me my permanent, and my temp is no longer valid.
At some point I'll want to pursue it again, and would sure like to do it the easy way.
Please send me a PM if possible.
Thanks!
Hello everyone,
I like to know if anyone knows any apartments for sale in Cartagena or Santa Marta?
T.man
VipMedellin
11-15-06, 01:38
My name is Albert and if you want contact me at my email [Email address deleted by Admin] and I will explain in details how to obtain it.
That is my field of expertises.
I tried sending you a PM but you were not accepting them.
Saw your post and wondered if you had a name or contact info for the person who helped you get your cedula.
I tried it the old fashioned way, and only made it to having a temporary cedula after a lot of hassles and time wasted. They never did give me my permanent, and my temp is no longer valid.
At some point I'll want to pursue it again, and would sure like to do it the easy way.
Please send me a PM if possible.
Thanks!
EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited to remove email addresses in the text. Please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. Thanks!
Jellyballs
12-18-06, 23:29
Albert will charge you $400 for his help. If you tell me what type you want I will explain how do it for free.
My name is Albert and if you want contact me at my email [Email address deleted by Admin] and I will explain in details how to obtain it.
That is my field of expertises.
AddictedToWomen
12-22-06, 00:14
Jellyballs (or anyone else):
You know what the correct procedure is for bringing money into Colombia in such a way that I take take it out again easily in the future? Preferably without being stung by the massive official difference in the COP/USD and USD/COP rates?
Jellyballs
12-22-06, 00:36
Bring it in through a bank and then fill out formulario 4 and 11. You will need a bank account for this. In order to have a bank account you need a cedula. In order to have a cedula you need a visa other than a tourist visa.
Jellyballs (or anyone else):
You know what the correct procedure is for bringing money into Colombia in such a way that I take take it out again easily in the future? Preferably without being stung by the massive official difference in the COP/USD and USD/COP rates?
Bango Cheito
12-22-06, 06:37
Filling out Forms 4 and 11 doesn't protect you against currency fluctuations, nothing on earth does that, sorry.
Those forms allow you to repatriate the funds at a later time if so desired without having to pay an extra tax on money leaving the country, which could be anywhere from 10 to 47%!
AddictedToWomen
12-22-06, 23:55
So there's no way of getting money into the country for investment without having a visa?
Bango Cheito
12-23-06, 00:33
There is if you don't mind your money going into somebody else's bank account.
If you have $18k USD in the bank you can get an investor's visa, and then open up your own bank account.
You can also buy property in Colombia from NYC or Miami from Mupi Corporation. You can even take out a mortgage here for property down there. They are on Roosevelt Av in Queens NY and their # is 718 639 1286
Jellyballs
12-23-06, 01:03
If you bring the money in through other means, like $9,950 in your pocket, then there is no record that you legally imported the money. This means when you want to bring the money out in the future it will be considered money made inside Colombia, and therefore taxable at 40%.
So if we are talking more than $20,000 I would take the time to get the visa and a valid bank account.
Listen, there is something else that is very important here. There is no shortage of idiots who will give you bad advise about money issues in Colombia. I would guess over 90% of the gringos have ABSOLUTELY no idea about money issues in Colombia. Many of the bank managers do not even know the rules because they never deal with foreigners. However, there is no shortage of foreigners who will give you the wrong advise since they think they know what they are talking about.
Most people on this board would fall into the category of not being too smart, but like dumb people everywhere, they all think they know it all. If you are considering importing any significant amount of money then this board is the last place you want to be getting advise from!!
So there's no way of getting money into the country for investment without having a visa?
Hello fellows,
One Lawyer in Cali told me all U.S citizens must have an investor visa to obtain a bank account in Colombia. There are different types and it is worth to contact the Colombian embassy to know more about it.
I inquired about this subject since I am thinking to buy real estate in Colombia.
I spoke with Another lawyer for second opinion, and was told the same, but he added that many gringos buy property without any visa and it is by law legal, but to open an account in your name you need a Colombian residency or have a company registered in Colombia.
I have found many interesting and useful tips on this forum, but when it comes to money issues, you need to ask the right person for it.
If you need any of the lawyers info, let me know.
One in Cali is Immigration lawyer.
Second one is in Cartagena and does real estate primarily.
T.man
Normally you can only open a bank account in Colombia if you have a Colombian ID Card (Cedula), which you get after you have recieved your visa (there are many types of visas).
You can buy property in Colombia on your passport alone.
There are many ways of purchasing a property without opening your own bank account, you can pay cash in one go (a lot of bills though), cash in instalments (using dollars brought with you and/or your Debit/Credit cards), sending the money from abroad to a third parties bank account (need to trust the person though), deposting the money in a bank account outside of Colombia (again some trust involved here, but less if you do it correctly), I have heard quite a few people doing this one as there are a lot of Colombians in the USA.
If you don´t use the banking system to bring in the money, you can not declare it with regards to form 4 & 11, so you would be liable to pay tax if you tried to move the money out of Colombia using the official banking system, obviously you could take it our with you, unless it is a large amount of money this is pretty easy to do over a few trips.
If you are buying in a place where other foreigners are also buy, you will probably be able to sell your property to another foreigner and have him deposit the money in his home Country, presuming you have a bank account there.
Hunter
LocoGringo
12-26-06, 02:14
I have bought 4 properties in Colombia over the last 4 years. I also have 3 bank accounts, Citibank, BankColombia f/business a smaill savings account at what was the Tequendama. You need a cedula that requires a Visa, may be any kind of Visa, business, retirement, etc. Most Visas is only good for 1 year and must be renewed as such. I finally have enough investment to qualify for an investor type Visa ($100,000 minimum) reported to the National bank as an investment). I have used 3 different lawyers in Colombia and they all give different answers to most questions and represented themselves as "experts". I think that they truly believe their own liws sometimes and as some know I have 0 tolerance for total incompetence shown by these assholes. Read the laws, they are posted on the website or find someone that has actually been through the process.
Jellyballs
12-26-06, 03:04
Fire this lawyer right now. He has abolutely NO idea what he is talking about. Even Albert knows more than this.
You cannot obtain an investor visa until *AFTER* you make the investment. And you cannot make the investment without a bank account first.
Hello fellows,
One Lawyer in Cali told me all U.S citizens must have an investor visa to obtain a bank account in Colombia. There are different types and it is worth to contact the Colombian embassy to know more about it.
I inquired about this subject since I am thinking to buy real estate in Colombia.
I spoke with Another lawyer for second opinion, and was told the same, but he added that many gringos buy property without any visa and it is by law legal, but to open an account in your name you nee lawyer d a Colombian residency or have a company registered in Colombia.
I have found many interesting and useful tips on this forum, but when it comes to money issues, you need to ask the right person for it.
If you need any of the lawyers info, let me know.
One in Cali is Immigration lawyer.
Second one is in Cartagena and does real estate primarily.
T.man
Bango Cheito
12-26-06, 08:13
Jelly is right.
For more info go to www.colombianblog.com and check on the forum there. There is a complete section on moving to Colombia with loads of details on getting visas and buying property, including first-hand accounts of how people have screwed up and what NOT to do. ABSOLUTELY do not trust a Colombian lawyer, once again Jelly is right, many of them simply do not know what they are talking about.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES bring money into Colombia without filling out formularios 4 first and formulario 11 SHORTLY thereafter. And NO YOU DO NOT need any type of visa to buy property in Colombia.
To get a small investor visa you need $18k and it doesn't have to be in Colombia at the time, they will accept a statement from an American account, along with a buttload of other paperwork. To get automatic permanent residency you need to have $100k to invest. IIRC in both cases you need a business plan and a bunch of other PITA shit.
JadeWarrior
03-31-07, 12:05
Continual posting of something you have for sale or rent that are not women would be a drag. Please cease and desist. I for one would consider it spam on this site.
AddictedToWomen
04-03-07, 18:14
Continual posting of something you have for sale or rent that are not women would be a drag. Please cease and desist. I for one would consider it spam on this site.
It *is* the "Buying Property in Colombia" section. What did you expect to find here?
Why buy a place in Colombia?
Unless your going to go expat, but then why do that?
People are going to know you have money.
Member #3418
04-04-07, 05:45
Paisita05:
Interested in both the properties AND the women you have for sale.
Details?
I have been the victim of a paternity suit in Colombia for the past year. Guess what would happen to me if I entered the country? At the airport DAS would detain me until I paid $$$$ to the woman's lawyer for the costs of the child being born and enough for the future support for 18 years. Then I would be released from jail.
I almost bought a condo in Cartegena MANY times. I thank the good Lord now that I did not. If I had bought one, I would not be able to use it until the paternity lawsuit gets over. And do you really think I want to go to a Colombian Court and play by their rules over paternity? Can I trust their doctors to do a fair test, or will someone slip them $100 to change the results? How about the Colombia Judge? Can you trust them?
Why buy when you can rent?
You don't have the same protections of the court system that you do in the US!
In Florida we have the right to a jury Trial over paternity!
Fortunately the girl is softening up and has agreed, after one year, to drop the lawsuit. I will then travel to Colombia and voluntarity have a DNA test done!
Davidb3069
05-03-07, 14:40
I am an american male with some advise to all who want to live in Colombia. I have aquired my cedula, gold insurance policy , and bank accounts with no problem. I went thru the cedula process in 1 day, insurance acceptance, and bank account opened in 20 minutes. The advice I give is simple, make the right contacts, propina the service people, and be kind and remember this is not America, sometimes its better , sometimes its not. For example , blood work for blood type required for Cedula, blood drawn and typed in 10 minutes at the Lab. Entry into the DAS office/ immigration offices/ in 5 minutes, no appoinment.All with the help of a service provider who was very good at working the system, all the people here know and like him, a big plus. The country is similar to most latin american societies, its not what you know but who, same as USA but we do not like to admit it.In DR I was able to buy a DR cedula for $100US from a govt guy (went direct to the gov't office). Got it the same visit. Know anyone in Colombia you'd be willing to introduce that could do the same in Colombia?
Thanks,
David B.
Cork Sucker
05-04-07, 14:41
I have been the victim of a paternity suit in Colombia for the past year. Guess what would happen to me if I entered the country? At the airport DAS would detain me until I paid $$$$ to the woman's lawyer for the costs of the child being born and enough for the future support for 18 years. Then I would be released from jail.
I almost bought a condo in Cartegena MANY times. I thank the good Lord now that I did not. If I had bought one, I would not be able to use it until the paternity lawsuit gets over. And do you really think I want to go to a Colombian Court and play by their rules over paternity? Can I trust their doctors to do a fair test, or will someone slip them $100 to change the results? How about the Colombia Judge? Can you trust them?
Why buy when you can rent?
You don't have the same protections of the court system that you do in the US!
In Florida we have the right to a jury Trial over paternity!
Fortunately the girl is softening up and has agreed, after one year, to drop the lawsuit. I will then travel to Colombia and voluntarity have a DNA test done!
Another good reason always use condom ,lol...
In DR I was able to buy a DR cedula for $100US from a govt guy (went direct to the gov't office). Got it the same visit. Know anyone in Colombia you'd be willing to introduce that could do the same in Colombia?
Thanks,
David B.
I'd bet that it can be easily done. However, if you do it wrong, you are fucked big time. It is much better to do it the right way.
Another good reason always use condom ,lol...Doesn't matter, even if you used a condom, you can still be named in a paternity suit. The pope could be named by a pregnant girl too! Even after a vasectomy. In Colombia there is a presumption of paternity, if the woman names you. The Court can appoint a lawyer for you and the court will find it is your child, even if you do not get served with any papers. BTW it takes at least a year or two before the papers get up to the Colombian embassy in Miami and then they are mailed to you by Certified Mail, RRR. I have been very careful about which certified pieces of mail I accept.
If you do not accept service of process thru the mail, then you can defend the lawsuit in the US by claiming you were never a properly notified party in the action in Colombia and they cannot levy against your assets in the US.
Ask someone who had it happen to them!
I have been the victim of a paternity suit in Colombia for the past year.Npaul1,
I'm not preaching here but help me (and possibly others) understand why you are the "victim". Did you get the girl pregnant or not? If not, then I understand. If you did, then how does having a baby make you the victim?
Cheers,
Cubanut
Papi Que Rico
05-05-07, 13:40
I never understand mongers who give out personal information to hos! Isn't that part of the reason to monger? Cum and go home! I never give out my address, full name, phone # ect. I pay so that I don't have entanglements!
If I'm with a chica I like and want to repeat I get her #.
Oliver 0205
05-15-07, 15:13
Hello,
After searching the web without big success I hope somebody can help me. I am looking for a house in Pereira. Does anybody know a website where I can look for this. I found a lot for Bogota or Medelin, but it seems that there is quite less for Pereira.
Thanks.
Oliver
Latin Bound
05-16-07, 04:42
Hello,
After searching the web without big success I hope somebody can help me. I am looking for a house in Pereira. Does anybody know a website where I can look for this. I found a lot for Bogota or Medelin, but it seems that there is quite less for Pereira.
Thanks.
OliverIf you can understand Spanish go to www.latarde.com. That is one of the local Pereira papers, and the only one with the classified ads online that I know of. Look under "clasificados," and then click on "venta finca raiz." There you would see different listings of apartments or houses for sale. Good luck.
Kit Karson
05-16-07, 14:45
Hello,
After searching the web without big success I hope somebody can help me. I am looking for a house in Pereira. Does anybody know a website where I can look for this. I found a lot for Bogota or Medelin, but it seems that there is quite less for Pereira.
Thanks.
OliverGood advice from Latin Bound. As an add to his advice you will find a lot of the homes listed are with real estate salespeople so when you arrive call a couple of the ads and you will soon have some local knowledge and experience to show you some homes.
You can buy a home for $10,000 in Cuba to a penthouse in Pinares for $200,000.
There is a great selection and prices are quite reasonable.
kk
Kit, Try Metrocuadrado.com They Have Listings For All Cities In Colombia
Member #4427
05-21-07, 01:24
I went to Medellin in March and had a good time. I am now thinking about buying or building a place of my own. If your purchase or build a place in Colombia do youu own it or do you own the building and do a 50 year lease on the land, something like in Mexico. Does anyone know if there are any restrictions to areas of Colombia an person can not buy. (I. E. Coastal property, near the border ect.)
I went to Medellin in March and had a good time. I am now thinking about buying or building a place of my own. If your purchase or build a place in Colombia do youu own it or do you own the building and do a 50 year lease on the land, something like in Mexico. Does anyone know if there are any restrictions to areas of Colombia an person can not buy. (I. E. Coastal property, near the border ect.)
You can own outright with only a US passport. There are no restrictions like Mexico. I own a place right on the beach.
Poor But Horny
05-29-07, 20:43
Hello,
After searching the web without big success I hope somebody can help me. I am looking for a house in Pereira. Does anybody know a website where I can look for this. I found a lot for Bogota or Medelin, but it seems that there is quite less for Pereira.
Thanks.
OliverIf you don't have luck with any of this, PM me. I have a friend who was born Colombian, lived in the US, and spends about 1/2 time in each place. He has a condo in Pereira, goes a lot, and can probably help find the unlisted deals. He is not a realtor, just a retired guy who may want to do something.
Another good reason always use condom ,lol...Don't be so afraid about Colombian law. If your "enemy" is a millionar or narco of course he has the influence to buy the judges, but a pooheto Colombian girl is not so powerfull and if you are not the father you can quickly show it during the process, thanks to DNA.
Bye
What's up Gents?
A friend wanted me to check and see if anyone on here knew of this area. He is heading to Bogota to check out a couple of apartments for sale. The agent said the place was close to the hotel Dann Carlton on transvarsal 23. From what he was told it is suppose to be a real cool and safe area for Americans to live. Thanks in advance for any help. Otown
VatosLocos
07-14-07, 22:14
Hello there people,
Would anyone know what the real estate market in Cali has done over the last couple of years and maybe even know what the prognoses would be for the short and long term future?
Just trying to see if my future can lead me to Colombia.
Thanx to anyone who can give me some details.
Vatoslocos
I would like to explore any business opportunities in Colombia, such as partnering with some one to open a business, Subway or any other franchise.
I would appreciate thoughts and input, should we open a thread.
VatosLocos
07-22-07, 18:19
Where are the wisemen on this thread?
No reactions to last question regarding real estate situation in Cali
Give us your input, feedback and so on.
There is a company in Jackson Heights, Queens (NY) that handles foreign purchases of real estate in Colombia including financing.
www.union-andina.com (site looks to be down right now)
They are located at 81-02 Roosevelt Ave, Jackson Heights, NY 11372
Tel: 718-639-1286
Contact: Luzmila Gelpis (doesn't speak English)
I have to be honest though, I did not find their financing terms to be very attractive and they only deal with new construction projects, not existing properties.
Jelly is right.
For more info go to www.colombianblog.com and check on the forum there. There is a complete section on moving to Colombia with loads of details on getting visas and buying property, including first-hand accounts of how people have screwed up and what NOT to do. ABSOLUTELY do not trust a Colombian lawyer, once again Jelly is right, many of them simply do not know what they are talking about.
Whoever owns that blog (the admin) is like the Soup nazi. Just read the few threads he makes available for all the read without registering.
I registered at that site in the AM. By the afternoon of that same day, he sent me an email to say my account had been deleted, with no explanation.
I had never been on the site before. He must be like that guy AWS from Americanwomensuck. I.e. A loser.
Here are some comparative figures taken from recent apartment sales in Medellin...
I've listed it as follows (all prices are in pesos per square meter):
Area *** Min Price *** Max Price *** Median Price
Belen *** 1.313.000 *** 2.030.167 *** 1.646.863
El Poblado *** 1.750.667 *** 2.754.754 *** 2.267.060
Laureles-Estadio *** 1.112.069 *** 2.013.415 *** 1.642.606
Envigado *** 896.875 *** 2.369.231 *** 1.781.280
For my purposes, if I wanted to purchase a place in Poblado, the price per sq. ft at the high end is 257,453 pesos (approx USD$130). So a 1,500 sq. ft apartment in a presumably very high end building would run around $195k. In the midrange, you could probably pick up something similar in size for around $105/sq. ft. or around $160k.
Dan,
I saw Melissa last nite and she said you are a Father! She ask me how to contact you ASAP, or should she wait till the baby is born. You are right bare backing has its risks and you are now an owner of one of them, Suerte, she asked me when and how to contact the American Consulate. PM me.
To have a first idea on prices look in www.fincaraiz.com.co, and don't believe overprices of some friends"posting here.
Out of Cartagena price are very low if u are a able buyer.Used decent property cost also only 1million /mq., or less.
VipMedellin
10-23-07, 06:20
My associate and I wanted to let you guys know that our realstate office will be opened November 15th for ny further info on realstate in Colombia please do not hesitate to pm me.
Traylor Park
11-17-07, 23:19
PURCHASING A SECOND HOUSE IN COLOMBIA
Colombia has a great potential to become one of the favorite destination for retired and financial foreigners by purchasing a second house. A bill seeks to develop this market.
Colombian Government decided to boost second house market, attending private sectors interests. The objective is to attract retired and financial foreigners and the Colombians who have established their lives abroad, in order that they purchase a house in Colombia to live seasonally, spend vacations, or even to settle permanently in our country.
Through a bill, to be submitted to the Congress in the coming days, and some changes on foreign investment regime, the government plans to grant tax exemptions to investors, developers, and buyers of great housing projects to be built in free zones destined exclusively to this kind of initiatives.
Although, it hasnt been decided which will be these areas, the Caribbean, Coffee Zone, Antioquia and Santander are shaping up as the most attractive places for development of these projects that it is expected to bring investment and consumptions in complementary sectors of the economy, as it has already happened in Central American countries.
If anyone interested in sharing a property or purshasing together for renting and self use, please let me know.
Also appreciate if you can let me know , any investment opportunties in Medellin.
Far Medellin
12-23-07, 02:02
Albert moved with his family from Medellin to Falls Church VA when he was two years old. He grew up in the Virginia/Maryland area and attended George Mason University where he specialized in Business Administration. At age 18 he was the youngest U. S. Owner/operator of a ServiceMaster disaster restoration franchise. Six years later he was a partner in an imported car dealership in Baltimore, MD.
In 1995 he returned to Colombia and worked with the Ministry of Education as well as being a Director of the National University in Bogota. Five years ago he founded the International Language Centers in Bogota, Cali and Medellin. In 2005 he became the managing partner of Hotel VIP in Envigado (Calle 41 location) and owner of the Hotel VIP Medellin (Calle 5 location). Since 2003 he has been actively involved in real estate sales, property management and remodeling for his own farms and homes, as well as for visitors, primarily from the United States.
Albert brings not only successful and proven real estate experience for U. S. Citizens but also has extensive knowledge and resources to provide assistance in quickly obtaining visas, cedula cards (Colombia national ID card), opening of bank accounts in Colombia, legalization of funds and legal assistance (bi-lingual attorney's) for sales contracts and closings.
Albert also thinks that the Medellin real estate market is undervalued compared to Panama and Costa Rica. Also, like Rich, he believes that the Medellin lifestyle is superior to Central America in terms of climate and culture and more beautiful in terms of scenery, views and people
Rich purchased an apartment in Medellin in October 2007 and then moved there full time in November 2007. He also maintains a home in Naples, FL. His background comes from the real estate, mortgage, securities, publishing, Internet and investment banking industries. His undergraduate degree is in Chemical Engineering Management from the University of Texas and he holds an MBA from the Ohio State University. He has lived in Florida for 14 years, Atlanta, GA for 11 years, and Los Angeles for 8 years and is originally from Texas where he resided for 12 years.
Rich began traveling to Medellin in 2006 and quickly realized that Medellin may be one of the world's best kept secrets primarily due to the misperceptions caused by the international press. Not only is Medellin one of the best places to live in the world but Rich believes it may also be one of the most undervalued real estate markets. And prices should rise as the world discovers what a true paradise Medellin really is. He notes that in 2007 there has been more positive U. S. News regarding Colombia than in the previous 40 years combined.
Rich understands that American buyers in Colombian real estate need a true trusted resource. They want honesty, integrity, experience, credibility and good value. That is why Rich has teamed up with Albert Licht to form First American Realty Medellin.
The company's goals are to answer questions, minimize risks, make the process easy, provide value and to share the dream. Whether your goal is to retire early, to enjoy a better social life, to have a great second home or to make a timely real estate investment First American Realty Medellin is ready to assist you
We are at your service we our new company Firstamericanrealtymedellin please pm us for any information.
Latina Passion
12-23-07, 17:51
Now guys are posting fucking Resumes???
Albert moved with his family from Medellin to Falls Church VA when he was two years old. He grew up in the Virginia/Maryland area and attended George Mason University where he specialized in Business Administration. At age 18 he was the youngest U. S. Owner/operator of a ServiceMaster disaster restoration franchise. Six years later he was a partner in an imported car dealership in Baltimore, MD.
In 1995 he returned to Colombia and worked with the Ministry of Education as well as being a Director of the National University in Bogota. Five years ago he founded the International Language Centers in Bogota, Cali and Medellin. In 2005 he became the managing partner of Hotel VIP in Envigado (Calle 41 location) and owner of the Hotel VIP Medellin (Calle 5 location). Since 2003 he has been actively involved in real estate sales, property management and remodeling for his own farms and homes, as well as for visitors, primarily from the United States.
Albert brings not only successful and proven real estate experience for U. S. Citizens but also has extensive knowledge and resources to provide assistance in quickly obtaining visas, cedula cards (Colombia national ID card), opening of bank accounts in Colombia, legalization of funds and legal assistance (bi-lingual attorney's) for sales contracts and closings.
Albert also thinks that the Medellin real estate market is undervalued compared to Panama and Costa Rica. Also, like Rich, he believes that the Medellin lifestyle is superior to Central America in terms of climate and culture and more beautiful in terms of scenery, views and people
Rich purchased an apartment in Medellin in October 2007 and then moved there full time in November 2007. He also maintains a home in Naples, FL. His background comes from the real estate, mortgage, securities, publishing, Internet and investment banking industries. His undergraduate degree is in Chemical Engineering Management from the University of Texas and he holds an MBA from the Ohio State University. He has lived in Florida for 14 years, Atlanta, GA for 11 years, and Los Angeles for 8 years and is originally from Texas where he resided for 12 years.
Rich began traveling to Medellin in 2006 and quickly realized that Medellin may be one of the world's best kept secrets primarily due to the misperceptions caused by the international press. Not only is Medellin one of the best places to live in the world but Rich believes it may also be one of the most undervalued real estate markets. And prices should rise as the world discovers what a true paradise Medellin really is. He notes that in 2007 there has been more positive U. S. News regarding Colombia than in the previous 40 years combined.
Rich understands that American buyers in Colombian real estate need a true trusted resource. They want honesty, integrity, experience, credibility and good value. That is why Rich has teamed up with Albert Licht to form First American Realty Medellin.
The company's goals are to answer questions, minimize risks, make the process easy, provide value and to share the dream. Whether your goal is to retire early, to enjoy a better social life, to have a great second home or to make a timely real estate investment First American Realty Medellin is ready to assist you
We are at your service we our new company Firstamericanrealtymedellin please pm us for any information.
Rico Fashizzle
12-23-07, 18:31
"....Now guys are posting fucking Resumes???..."
LMAO. I have to agree with Latina Passion on this one.
I'm sure the guys listed on the resume are great guys that run a top notch operation along with the other hotels run by gringos in Medellin that have links to them.
They all look great and offer their own unique styles.
But can we keep the resumes and touting of specific hotels to the proper threads so that the other threads keep pointed in the right direction and not veer off into back and forth drama and competitive oneupmanship?
Albert also thinks that the Medellin real estate market is undervalued compared to Panama and Costa Rica. First American Realty Medellin is ready to assist you
We are at your service we our new company Firstamericanrealtymedellin please pm us for any information.There is a logical reason for the undervalued real estate prices in Colombia. Capital fears political and social risk.
If anyone is thinking of investing real estate in Colombia, please give some thought to the long term future political stability. South Florida is full Colombians who will not return back to Colombia. They know, one election could change everything backwards. If that happens, good luck trying to sell your real estate.
Escort King
12-23-07, 19:46
As the US economy gets worse buying into other countries is not a bad idea. I will be looking for more real estate investments outside of the US in the coming year. Colombia is on my list to check out.
Cornhusker
12-23-07, 19:52
Now guys are posting fucking Resumes?I think Jackson should open " A public advertisement section" for Colombia, that would keep morons like this with bullshit trip reports and phony internet pictures from bitching. Good to have options, chusker
I think Jackson should open " A public advertisement section" for Colombia, that would keep morons like this with bullshit trip reports and phony internet pictures from bitching. Good to have options, chuskerGreetings Everyone,
There is a Classified Ads thread in the Colombia forum.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1279
Thanks,
Jackson
Medellin Rum
12-24-07, 01:19
I've listened to people brag that their property in Medellin is worth twice as much as what they paid for it. When I ask them how much it will cost to sell their property including agent fees, taxes etc. , most have no clue, or just say I will make a lot of money. When asked about the cost of taxes, and taxable gains, they look at me with a blank stare and say oh not much. Bottom line if you think your going to make a killing on property sales, know the facts. There is not one Colombiana who would pay these individuals what they think their property is worth. A gringo, maybe.
I've listened to people brag that their property in Medellin is worth twice as much as what they paid for it. When I ask them how much it will cost to sell their property including agent fees, taxes etc. , most have no clue, or just say I will make a lot of money. When asked about the cost of taxes, and taxable gains, they look at me with a blank stare and say oh not much. Bottom line if you think your going to make a killing on property sales, know the facts. There is not one Colombiana who would pay these individuals what they think their property is worth. A gringo, maybe.
Is that you, UC? Welcome to a real board.
Nobody ever gets what they think their property is worth. That applies to the US as well. And there are many in the US who know nothing of capital gains or selling costs.
In Colombia very few government officials even know what Colombian law says. When I sell something, I'll get what I get, and it will cost what it will cost. Ya.
And then I'll hassle with Colombia over taxes and repatriation. The only way to avoid that is to never buy any property in Colombia in the first place.
BeersTerry
12-24-07, 14:57
Gentlemen, I have an opportunity that I want to share with you (being of the same bretheren). Being aware of the rising economic forturnes of Latin America, I have carefully nutured a high level relationship with upper class Colombians.
As a result of my work, I now have gained the right to act on an agency basis or proprietor of publically owned engineered properties. Yes I am talking about bridges!
Previously, I had the good fortune to be associated with African royalty. The relationship proved beneficial to both parties, as I helped them to gain release of their monies being held by other governments due to tax difficulties.
I have two college degrees from the southwest and a doctorate from England. None of that education has helped me to recognize the opportunties in front of us. Act fast as I will not present this for long.
Sailor2006
12-24-07, 17:23
Beersterry. Thats a funny post!
And again I agree with alot of those who spoke up about that, those types of advertisments belong in their proper thread.
Medellin rum, is right, many people are buying with out proper knowledge of the tax code, and property rights. Mainly becuase they think with their little heads and see the inflated gringo prices as cheap when compared to american realestate. All that pretty much makes for good hunting ground for scammers and alike. Can I say "robbinson" evertime I see that guy hes always trying to sell an apartment or something.
Always ask yourself who are you dealing with, are they licensed in realestate in Colombia. Is this your only source of information on prices and regulation, wouldn't hurt to get a translator and and a lawyer if your plainning on spending big bucks. Stuff like this matters unless your really rich and just don't care like TOM over there, what I wouldn't give to be you!
www.informeinmobiliario.com
Is a very good source of information on new apartments, which actually is cheaper per square foot, and the most expensive apartment in poblado listed go from 600, 000million COP to 800, 000 million COP for brand new 230M2 to 300M2 many very nice new construction projects. Use what the construction companies are asking for price basing.
I honestly don't see a realestate boom, I see a building boom, I also see many "se vende" signs that have been up for a year PLUS. I think poblado prices are on the rise, and its my opinion that many would like to see a two price market one for gringos and another for locals. All the signs actually remind of coasta rica many for sale signs there, and many high asking prices, too
FlaFun
Your looking at the BIG PICTURE and a few years down the road, and thats pretty hard for us americans to do. But your right, Colombia has improved but there is still danger, look at ecuadore and venezula both countries next door to Colombia and both countries took a left "commie" turn with an election and not much trouble, Colombia is improving for pobaldo and some middle class but still remains poor and the FARC has some support, along with disgruntled poor class. And if the US economy continues to decline along with the dollar, colombias economic boom might go with it, just some thoughts to share.
Stuff like this matters unless your really rich and just don't care like TOM over there, what I wouldn't give to be you!
This rich guy spent less than 1 million per square meter for his place in Laureles(MDE). And I bought it to live in. Other than that my money stays in the US.
That shit matters if you are investing. I would not invest in Colombia. It's hard enough to simply live here. Of course the benefits outweigh the hardships.
Sailor2006
12-24-07, 21:14
Wow, rich and smart, what a catch! Merry Christmas and happy holidays.
[QUOTE=Sailor2006]Stuff like this matters unless your really rich and just don't care like TOM over there, what I wouldn't give to be you!/QUOTE]
This rich guy spent less than 1 million per square meter for his place in Laureles(MDE). And I bought it to live in. Other than that my money stays in the US.
That shit matters if you are investing. I simply would not invest in Colombia. It's hard enough to simply live here. Of course the benefits outweigh the hardships.
Casa Medellin
12-24-07, 21:31
i have been involved in about 15 million usd in real estate transactions in colombia so l probably know a little more than some of the nmgs who give out free bad advice on the beach in cartagena.
first, i want to make it clear here that this is not some sort of advertising. i do not sell real estate for a living, at least not yet. i just happen to have lived in colombia for 4 years and looked at a lot of properties. ofter i have just helped people by giving my opinion without charge as to weather or not they are getting a good price.
here are some points for people interested in buying.
avoid dealing with a real estate agents who speak english. the only exception to this would be juan ventura who was my agent on two apartments i bought in cartagena.
most people selling a property will have a dozen agents so do not think anyone has exclusive rights to sell you anything. if you do not like the agent just go find another as they will show you the same properties.
bring a colombian along to do most of the talking.
don't always think you are getting the gringo price. if in doubt just have a colombian call the owner directly or send a colombian before the final transaction. there have only been a few times where i was quoted more than the colombians. most of the "gringo pricing" things you hear are made up by nmgs who will never own anything any way.
always bring in the money with forms 4 and 11. there are lots of guys who sit on the beach who will tell you about their "cool" way of bringing in money in the suitcase but avoid these people at all costs or it will cost you.
never take advice of someone who bought a $20,000 apartment 5 years ago. these people are not investors, they were just lucky. if they were as smart as they like to act they would have bought 20 apartments when they were priced like that.
colombian law is ambiguous and extremely confusing about repatriating the money. lawyers and bank managers will tell you conflicting things. any time a gringo says "i know because my lawyer said....." be very worried about anything else that gringo tells you because he trusts his lawyer. never trust a colombian lawyer with things concerning foreign law because they simply do not know and will make things up. i have had 12 different lawyers in colombia. every single one of them will say different things so never think you found the one who "knows".
if you are going to invest more than a few hundred thousand i would suggest forming a colombian corporation. this is really not necessary for the small investors but it can help. the corporation will own the properties and you will own the corporation. if there was ever some sort of emergency (like a fidel) you could avoid confirep001ion fairly easy.
colombian property can be owned by panamanian corporations as well. most colombian lawyers will say this is not true since they simply do not know how to do it. there are advantages in owning stuff in the name of a foreign company but i am not going to explain these things here.
every year real estate has gone up especially in the strata 5 and 6 areas. as more and more colombians make money they are moving into the higher stratas. these stratas are not getting bigger so the prices are going up. poblado is almost full now with buildings which are largely presold. once it is completely full then it will truly be a sellers market.
uribe has an 80% approval rating. this means the largest percent of the people who like uribe are actually the poor or middle class. the mayor of medellin also has an 80% approval rating. the leaders who follow these two men are going to keep the same path since it is working very well. there is no chavez here who can get even 5% of the vote.
real estate prices have gone up in some areas 50% per year. this is no exaggeration by any means. i know several people including myself who have made hundreds of thousands of dollars buying and selling real estate. i get offers on one of my properties almost weekly that are 300% of what i paid for it 3 years ago.
the prices are not controlled by gringos. some people seem to think the prices in medellin are increasing because there are "lots" of gringos here. comments like this are so stupid that you should run away from anyone who says this. medellin has a population of over 2 million people. there are probably less than 100 gringos who live here full time not including those who are married. the gringo market is incredibly tiny. the prices are going up all over colombia due to security changes and a strong economy. it is colombians who are pushing up the prices not gringos. a few small exceptions are some of the smaller apartment buildings in cartagena where many gringos are living but even this point is negligible.
there are billions (that is with a b) of dollars (not pesos) being invested in medellin right now. these billions are being invested by mgs not nmgs. mgs will protect their investments. in medellin there are 5 huge shopping centers either recently completed or will be completed soon worth hundreds of millions of dollars. with everyone investing in the same location it is hard to imagine that prices are going to go down.
bringing the money out is not as hard as some people would like you to think. most of the horror stories are from people who did not file the proper forms. the fact that no one understands the law can be used to your advantage just as easily as it can be used against you. there are several loopholes, indeed huge gaps, that can be utilised.
colombia is spending a lot of money trying to change their image. they want more and more investment here. they know how fucked up their laws are for foreigners and are trying to make it more easy. congress is already working on new laws to make investment more easy.
i think with any foreign investment you should only spend your play money and not invest too much of your overall worth. unfortunately, a lot of the nmgs invest all they have and then try to scare other people when they do not make the mint they were expecting. nmgs always love to dole out advice on the one thing they understand the least. unfortunately there are a lot of very vocal nmgs in colombia, so be very careful who you listen to.
finally, i do not think colombia is a rock solid investment. there are definitely better places in the world to invest. it is like the wild west. some people are going to walk away with fortunes and others are going to lose their shirt.
i am starting to see more and more cockroaches and parasites working in the investment area now. they are just waiting to eat the flesh off of the bones of the more stupid gringos. just be careful, follow the laws as best you can, and never listen to someone owns less than you are willing to invest.
ps: i want to empathise that i am not selling anything here. i know i am going to get flamed by the nmgs but i get flamed on almost everything i post so i do not really care.
Cornhusker
12-24-07, 22:07
Casa Medellin,
I would not worry about those losers with bullshit trip reports and phony internet pictures, they have a habit of busting anyone who makes money and is successful. We have seen it happen here too many times before.
It is always one or two with different ilks.They can`t even afford a plane ticket, yet they have been every where LMAO. My advice to you is keep your posts in your proper thread and leave these clear for them to talk about what they know nothing about and give their stupid advice. If you have noticed, every day a newcomer pops up and asks the stupidest questions, they are always prompt to answer.gee 1+1=2. They just love to have their nicks talk to each other.
It is always good to have options and as a successfully businessman that is my point of view. Good luck to you. Chusker.
Sailor2006
12-25-07, 00:16
Facts by the numbers.
I agree with some of the stuff casa Medellin is saying.
I don't really wanna argue cuase I am not a sucessfull real estate agent licensed to do bussniess in Colombia, or a hotel owner, or bussniessman but I will reply with some facts becuase I feel, that post was directed at me.
FACT #1 who's renting rooms out of a home, and advertising it every where? Doesnt sound like something a successfull guy in real estate would need to do.
FACT#2 you will meet more "sucessfull bussniess men" in Colombia then any place eles in the world, its like millionaires just flock there, to rent/sell apartments and set up shop.
FACT#3 being white and speaking english will get you a diffrent price, there are hundreds of people in Colombia who will rip you off, its the culture.
FACT#4 there are millions in Colombia who are dirty poor there not exactly high on the polling list.
FACT#5 anybody who says the population of Colombia is completely satisfied is DEAD WRONG. THERE IS A CIVIL WAR GOING ON! , in a country where civil strife and conflict have been going on its considered normal!
(this is my personal opinion but its these guys who live in poblado, driving cars, owning homes, nailing hotties going out drinking everyday that confuse themselves to the reality of the poverty around them that say everything is fine and Colombia is on the verge of a boom)
FACT#6 Colombia is a country of "haves" and "have nots". The "haves" run the country
Finally FACT#7 the reason you get flamed is becuase you try to ram your hotel down the throats of the members of this board.
Medellin Rum
12-25-07, 03:00
I have yet to hear from any US Citizen who has actually sold property in Colombia and took the money out of Colombia and back to the USA. One might want to take a look at Costa Rica's recent property tax increase (3000%) yes that's 3000% is some areas. Now what are you going to do if the Colombian Government raises your property tax 100%, 200% or more? Write your representative? I think not and you will be screwed! I still love to hear one of my gringo associates brag about the huge increase in equity on his apartment. When asked about capital gains or residency status that allows the Colombian government to collect taxes on his world income he is clueless, but has a big smile and no knowledge.
Colombia is a great place to live and I enjoy the people and the culture. The biggest issues come from other gringos who are selling snake oil and promissing the world if you buy something from them. Its a Country where you can lose a lot of money in a very short period!
Lucky Strike
12-25-07, 03:41
There are BILLIONS (that is with a B) of dollars (not pesos) being invested in Medellin right now. .... With everyone investing in the same location it is hard to imagine that prices are going to go down.
While I'm absolutely not qualified to comment on specifics of real estate market in Colombia, and in no way questioning your expertise, I have to disagree with your statement regarding PRICES. I think your statement contains a fundamental error.
I'll just say what every investor ought to know: if and when "everyone is in", the asset stops appreciating, and it's value is about to go down. It happens every time with every type of asset (to a greater or lesser extent.) Whether it's "nifty 50" stocks of the 70s, dot-coms in the late 90s, or Florida real estate right now...
This is not to say that today's prices will never be topped. Eventually they will be. The question is whether or not you can survive getting stuck in a prolonged bear market, while there are better opportunities elsewhere. I also have concerns regarding SPECIFIC risks for foreign nationals during the bear market/recession. The risks during recession can be significantly different from risks during the "good times" (call it "the blame game" if you like...)
The big questions I have is this: is EVERYONE in? I'm not talking about individuals who are buying a house or an apartment. I'm talking about developers and major speculators who are pouring in billions of dollars.
Would you be able to give your clients a qualified answer?
Casa Medellin
12-25-07, 04:16
I think it is early in Medellin similar to what Cartagena was 2-3 years ago. For instance, you can still find prices in Poblado in the 1 million a meter price range for a 5-10 year old building. In Cartagena the minimal now seems to be 2.5 million with new stuff topping 4 million. Of course Cartagena is a completely different type of city than Medellin but we started seeing people investing in Cartagena 3-4 years ago because it was perceived as a safe (as in little violence) place to live. Now as Medellin is becoming increasingly more safe the real estate prices also keep going up.
I doubt anyone could really say if this is the beginning or the end in absence of a crystal ball. I would bet though that everyone is not in yet. A couple of large American hotel companies just announced they will be building hotels in Medellin and Bogota. Trump just started a 500 million dollar project close to Cartagena. Burger King and a couple other fast food companies just entered the Colombian market. Congress is trying to pass a law to allow foreigners to come here with much less taxes. Major foreign investment is being seen in companies like Exito and Carrefour. New oil and gold reserves are being found as exploration becomes a little safer. 2007 was a record year for the amount of money sent back to Colombia by Colombians living in other countries. Medellin is becoming the city of choice for foreign businesses to put their headquarters whereas only a few years it would have been considered too dangerous. Things are really changing fast.
I would think more people will follow the lead of those here now so I doubt very much that everybody is in.
But I am probably not qualified to answer this question. I really do not have much invested in Colombia other than my mansion and penthouse.
You ask if I could give my clients an answer but it is a strange question since I am not selling real estate. What clients do you mean?
The big questions I have is this: is EVERYONE in? I'm not talking about individuals who are buying a house or an apartment. I'm talking about developers and major speculators who are pouring in billions of dollars.
Would you be able to give your clients a qualified answer?
The larger question lies with Colombia. Can she continue to stabilize? If the answer is yes, there is a lot of room for growth and price appreciation even in Cartagena.
There are too many variables to know the future of Colombia: FARC, paracos, narco-trafficing, lousy infrastructure, lousier laws, a total lack of respect for those lousier laws, and Tio Hugo. Add to that a populace that seems to accept waiting in bank lines for hours and near-total inefficiency in all things. The Colombian mind fuck is alive and well.
There is a logical reason for the undervalued real estate prices in Colombia. Capital fears political and social risk.
If anyone is thinking of investing real estate in Colombia, please give some thought to the long term future political stability. South Florida is full Colombians who will not return back to Colombia. They know, one election could change everything backwards. If that happens, good luck trying to sell your real estate.
Unfortunately, this is the common problem with all of Central and South America. If not, there would be tons more of investors. Excellent point Mr. Fla Fun!
Aussie Greg
12-25-07, 15:04
I´m happy in Medellin !!
Aussie Greg.
Unfortunately, this is the common problem with all of Central and South America. If not, there would be tons more of investors. Excellent point Mr. Fla Fun!
i´m happy in medellin !!
aussie greg.
but i would lease a place on yearly basis if i decided to spend lots of time in medellin. this way i would have the flexibility of packing and leaving right away without any stress. if the shit hits the fan, i do not have to worry about selling. let's say nothing negative happens, i can still move on to another location around the world.
as much as i love medellin ( god knows i have had my share of fun there and will continue in the future), i hate to break it to you........there are also many other places around the globe that offer amazing women as well as incredible scenery. trust me, i have also done my fair share of travel as many other members of this forum.
by the way, lets not kid ourselves, even though some people here might consider colombia or medellin a great investment oppurtunity ( which it might be to a certain extent ), there are many other better and safer investments around the world.
i love medellin and its weather, women, and my paisa, calenos, and rolos friends. i can relate very well and feel extremely comfortable there. hopefully someday colombia will have the stability that will make many more investors take a peek and a gamble. but i doubt it, just too much corruption.
bottm line, its fine to make an investment in medellin, but don't even come close to putting all of your eggs in one basket.
greg, i am also happy in many other cities around the world just as you are happy in medellin. but i don't stick to just one particular dessert all the time, i enjoy a variation of them. continued success for you in medellin sir.
Sandman0011
12-25-07, 17:10
The big questions I have is this: is EVERYONE in? I'm not talking about individuals who are buying a house or an apartment. I'm talking about developers and major speculators who are pouring in billions of dollars.
Medellin is experiencing a building boom. As of October, 2007, there were 145 high-rises under construction in Medellín, including 29 being approved, and 25 being proposed. That is more than NY, Philadelphia and Los Angeles combined.
Rumors are running around that Wal-mart plans to open a Super Wal Mart here. Pan America just opened it's first Medellin Location. The new Centro Comercial Premium Plaza just opened, two blocks away from San Diego, Oviedo is expanding across the street with a 5 story addition.
A French casino group is expanding it's investment in Exito/Pomona.
Yeah, I'd say the big boys are "in".
but i would lease a place on yearly basis if i decided to spend lots of time in medellin. this way i would have the flexibility of packing and leaving right away without any stress. if the shit hits the fan, i do not have to worry about selling. let's say nothing negative happens, i can still move on to another location around the world.
as much as i love medellin ( god knows i have had my share of fun there and will continue in the future), i hate to break it to you........there are also many other places around the globe that offer amazing women as well as incredible scenery. trust me, i have also done my fair share of travel as many other members of this forum.
by the way, lets not kid ourselves, even though some people here might consider colombia or medellin a great investment oppurtunity ( which it might be to a certain extent ), there are many other better and safer investments around the world.
i love medellin and its weather, women, and my paisa, calenos, and rolos friends. i can relate very well and feel extremely comfortable there. hopefully someday colombia will have the stability that will make many more investors take a peek and a gamble. but i doubt it, just too much corruption.
bottm line, its fine to make an investment in medellin, but don't even come close to putting all of your eggs in one basket.
greg, i am also happy in many other cities around the world just as you are happy in medellin. but i don't stick to just one particular dessert all the time, i enjoy a variation of them. continued success for you in medellin sir.
very well put senor. my sentiments exactly.
i believe the guys that live in medellin are very fortunate. what a great city!
i'm too much of a vagabundo to stick in one place though :)
but i sure love to visit!!
feliz navidad!!
Aussie Greg
12-25-07, 18:16
I guess every body looks for different things in life, as I have said, I´m happy here in Medellin but I also get away to to other places.
I carnt think or know of a better place with the quality of life for the price and the beauty/numbers of the women.
Investment in Colombia, every body said three years ago I was mad, I guess they still do !! some time I do to.
AG.
Very well put senor. My sentiments exactly.
I believe the guys that live in Medellin are very fortunate. What a great city!
I'm too much of a vagabundo to stick in one place though :)
But I sure love to visit!!
Feliz Navidad!!
Texas Slim
12-25-07, 18:29
I've been here in Medellin for almost two years and have looked at in excess of 60-70 properties all around town including Poblado, Envigado, Sabaneta, La Estrella, Itagui, Laurelles, Belen & El Centro (commercial). His advice is spot on.
* P.S.. I am not a patron or client of his establishment. I live in a rented apartment of 2 years in Poblado/Envigado. My background is 10 years of mortgage banking, residential & commercial real estate investments.
My mistake was not investing 2 years ago when the exchange rate was 2600 to 1. I have made the same mistake in the US a few times waiting.
By the way Casa Medellin, if you want to let me know where those investments at $200k per meter are in Poblado, please send me an email. I would be willing to pay you a fee for the right investment. I just missed out on a 750 meter fincacasa in Loma de Escobero (Envigado) for $450 million ($27 a square foot). I don't know what the hell I would do with all that space, but it does not matter now.
Casa Medellin
12-25-07, 20:04
I spend about 50% of my time in Medellin and 25% in Cartagena. I try to get to Argentina for a couple of months each winter when it is warm there but this year is not looking great. I also plan to take a few side trips to Asia when time permits.
The fact is I can live anywhere in the world I want. I chose to live in Medellin because it is fun for now. If the fun stops I will move on. I have lived in other countries that got all fucked up. When that happens you pay a guy named Jose to live in your house, put a "for sale" sign on it, and tell Jose to call you when it is sold. It is really very easy.
There is still a lot of negativity about Medellin but it always seems to come from the NMGs. This has its advantage because it scares away the hoards of NMGs. I have lived in other places that got overrun by NMGs and when that happens I usually move on. Pattaya, Angeles City, Sosua all suck for me because almost everyone there is a NMG and I will not return to any of them.
By the way Casa Medellin, if you want to let me know where those investments at $200k per meter are in Poblado, please send me an email. I would be willing to pay you a fee for the right investment.
That was one million per square meter. You can find things for 200K per M2, but it won't be in Poblado, and you won't like the neighborhood.
I have yet to hear from any US Citizen who has actually sold property in Colombia and took the money out of Colombia and back to the USA. One might want to take a look at Costa Rica's recent property tax increase (3000%) yes that's 3000% is some areas. Now what are you going to do if the Colombian Government raises your property tax 100%, 200% or more? Write your representative? I think not and you will be screwed! I still love to hear one of my gringo associates brag about the huge increase in equity on his apartment. When asked about capital gains or residency status that allows the Colombian government to collect taxes on his world income he is clueless, but has a big smile and no knowledge.
Colombia is a great place to live and I enjoy the people and the culture. The biggest issues come from other gringos who are selling snake oil and promissing the world if you buy something from them. Its a Country where you can lose a lot of money in a very short period!
If property taxes are raised, you pay them.
There are many exemptions from taxation of your worldwide income, and that generally doesn't apply until you have lived here for more than 5 years. AND Colombia seems to have trouble collecting from its own citizens who earn all their money in Colombia. Why do you suppose that the IVA(sales tax) is as high as it is? How is an extranjero supposed to understand Colombian income tax when DIAN does not?
FACT#5 anybody who says the population of Colombia is completely satisfied is DEAD WRONG. THERE IS A CIVIL WAR GOING ON! , in a country where civil strife and conflict have been going on its considered normal!
This "fact" is your opinion only. In my opinion, there is no civil war.
Aussie Greg
12-26-07, 22:50
I must back Tom33 up here, I lived here for 4 years and I have never seen any civil war going on, yes alot of Military/Police check points around.
Ive also driven a far bit of the country many times, had no problems but those fucken holes in the roads have caused me a few.
Aussie Greg.
This "fact" is your opinion only. In my opinion, there is no civil war.
Medellin Rum
12-27-07, 02:29
One only has to look at a few neighboring countries including Costa Rica who have recently signed agreements with the US Government to share information with the IRS. Additionally, several countries have hired corporations in the good old USA to automate their tax collection process.
If your property taxes increase by 100%, 500%, or 3000% I guess You could handle and pay the increase but others might have difficulty.
Dont fool yourself. If you purchase/sell property in Colombia you might not pay today but you will pay tomorrow in both taxes and capital gains.
If property taxes are raised, you pay them.
There are many exemptions from taxation of your worldwide income, and that generally doesn't apply until you have lived here for more than 5 years. AND Colombia seems to have trouble collecting from its own citizens who earn all their money in Colombia. Why do you suppose that the IVA(sales tax) is as high as it is? How is an extranjero supposed to understand Colombian income tax when DIAN does not?
Texas Slim
12-27-07, 02:59
Tom33,
My apologies. I can't seem to get cost per square foot (psf) out of my head.
Here is another deal I found in San Lucas. It was a 5 year old, 2 story, penthouse unit with 3 bedrooms, 2.5 bath, 2 parking spaces. 2 nice sized balconies, a nice sized walk in closet in the master - great views, open floor plan, etc. The unit needed no repair work and really not much upgrading either. I believe the admin fees were about $350,000 per month.
150 m2 or 1614.6 sf
$288,000,000(at the time the exchange rate was 2050) div 150 = $1,920,000 m2
$140,488 USD div 1614.6 = $87 psf
I thought this was a pretty good deal based on the fact most everything else is saw in the area was closer to $115 psf (new or up to 1 year old).
* So, I assume any property that could be found in Poblado for 1 million per m2 would need extensive upgrading or rehab work?
* I have seen some nice property (house) in Belen Rosales for 1 million per m2.
One only has to look at a few neighboring countries including Costa Rica who have recently signed agreements with the US Government to share information with the IRS. Additionally, several countries have hired corporations in the good old USA to automate their tax collection process.
If your property taxes increase by 100%, 500%, or 3000% I guess You could handle and pay the increase but others might have difficulty.
Dont fool yourself. If you purchase/sell property in Colombia you might not pay today but you will pay tomorrow in both taxes and capital gains.
The US cannot share my income tax info. with any foreign country. What part of unreported Colombian income and near total lack of enforcement do you not understand?
If my property taxes go up, so do the taxes of everyone else in my estrato. Do you suppose that they would even attempt a 100% increase in estrato 4?
Capital gains taxes are paid on any investment that you sell. Why should Colombia be any different?
Your posts are beginning to make less sense.
Tex,
Like anywhere else, you get what you pay for and location is everything.
I have no interest in Poblado nor do I have any interest in investing in Colombia. Belén is generally a good area. I live in Comuna 11, Laureles Estadio, which borders Belén. La América and San Javíer are also nice in general.
TheShadow2
12-27-07, 14:05
Good info for the most part, thanks for sharing your opinions.
2 questions:
1. You speak of the huge 500 million dollar Trump project near Cartagena which I've heard about ad nauseum. Can you post a link to a story confirming this construction? I've looked and looked on the net and can only find people talking about it, nothing proving it actually exists. It really looks to me like just a rumor, or something he came and looked into but decided against.
If that is the case, why would he decide against doing the project?
Just food for thought....
2. What the hell is an NMG?
Sailor2006
12-27-07, 17:12
You are entitled to your own opinions. Or whatever, but I'll have to dissagree Colombia is in a civil war, despite what other "intrest parties" say on the subject. I hope it ends, I hope the hostages get returned. I see its getting better, but don't kid yourself, there is still an armed conflict, and again I will say this its the "haves" who live in penthouses, casas, and nice apartments, that are buying cars, going out to dinner, and have hottie girlfriends that fool themseves into thinking life in Colombia is GREAT! (I have heard and seen these drunk fools boost) when its "there life" in Colombia thats good, life in Colombia is still hard for many millions of people.
And becuase I simply enjoy the thrill of an argument I'll say my FACT is still a FACT according to the CIA fact book, most world news organizations, and common knowledge that people are killed every day in Colombia, are still being held hostage by armed groups against the government, and security is still high becuase of all this.
This "fact" is your opinion only. In my opinion, there is no civil war.
Casa Medellen was gracious enough to inform me that NMG meant "no money guy".
I don't really agree with his assessment of guys with and without mucho money.
I've met just as many schleps with money as without in my travels.
We're all entitled to our opinions though. :)
TheShadow2
12-27-07, 18:55
Thanks Ricker. I guess I'm a SMG (Some money guy).
And I've actually stayed in the Penthouse of Casa Medellin before, so he must be a MMG. (Much money guy.)
Suerte!
Casa Medellin
12-27-07, 20:19
There are several articles about Trump in Cartagena. I cannot confirm if they are legit but I will post some links. Trump has not denied it.
http://www.elcolombiano.net/news.php?nid=1441
http://www.elespectador.com/elespectador/Secciones/Detalles.aspx?idNoticia=440&idSeccion=86
http://mensual.prensa.com/mensual/contenido/2006/10/15/hoy/negocios/766287.html
As for the NMG, I am going to post that in the proper forum since Jackson wants this area to remain on topic.
The link is here:
http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=2764
Good info for the most part, thanks for sharing your opinions.
2 questions:
1. You speak of the huge 500 million dollar Trump project near Cartagena which I've heard about ad nauseum. Can you post a link to a story confirming this construction? I've looked and looked on the net and can only find people talking about it, nothing proving it actually exists. It really looks to me like just a rumor, or something he came and looked into but decided against.
If that is the case, why would he decide against doing the project?
Just food for thought....
2. What the hell is an NMG?
Casa Medellin
12-27-07, 20:55
You have to pay capital gain taxes in many countries including the US and Canada. So how does this make investing in Colombia any worse than buying in NYC or Toronto?
Dont fool yourself. If you purchase/sell property in Colombia you might not pay today but you will pay tomorrow in both taxes and capital gains.
Casa Medellin
12-27-07, 20:56
Anyone who rents the penthouse is an official MG. :)
Thanks Ricker. I guess I'm a SMG (Some money guy).
And I've actually stayed in the Penthouse of Casa Medellin before, so he must be a MMG. (Much money guy.)
Suerte!
Sailor2006
12-27-07, 21:32
I think the main theme of this argument is one should use cuation, and becarfull when investing or purchasing property in Colombia, I think this point was proven.
I think people should be aware that there are people on this board hoping to take advantage of members looking to buy in Colombia, rushing buyers into contracts and deals, and even overcharging them all the while not providing real information on tax code or how they would get their money out of the country upon selling. Some good questions were asked, and I saw no answears of fact, becuase nobody knows. And that to me is dangerous ground.
Casa Medellin
12-27-07, 21:54
Before buying anything in Colombia I suggest watching this video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qgW8Y7F8DN8
Casa Medellin
12-27-07, 22:14
That is not necessarily true. I have seen apartments in Poblado that were in the 1 million price range that needed little work. You just have to look around and keep your eyes open.
There was a penthouse that sold a couple of months ago to I believe a gringo. I looked at it when it was sale. The building was about 9 years old which was about the only reason it was priced so low.
It was about 400 meters and prices around 420 million. I do not know what it sold for.
It had three floors, most of the bathrooms were marble, the master bedroom had giant walkin wood closets, there was a lot of very nice wood fixtures and a bar.
The only thing it really needed was a fresh coat of paint and some new light fixtures. I think if someone put $5,000 into the place it would look brand new.
It was in Pobaldo with an outstanding view. I really considered buying it just to fix up and flip for an easy $100K profit in 6-months. However, at the time I was still remodeling my mansion so I passed. I kind of regret it now.
Anyway, once in a while places like this go up for sale. There are still great deals to be found.
So, I assume any property that could be found in Poblado for 1 million per m2 would need extensive upgrading or rehab work?
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the content of the report was largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!
Medellin Rum
12-28-07, 01:41
Hello Tom and hope your doing well. Anyone, including me, can FOIA your tax returns from the IRS. The IRS has numerous agreements with other countries to share tax information. If you don't know what a FOIA is you can google it. If you don't believe the IRS agreements are true you can verify it with ease. Additionally, DAS probably has more info on both of us then we ever imagined.
Medellin is a great city and I enjoy the climate and the people. My plan is to pass on buying property or becoming an automatic resident after living in Colombia for 5 years. Like a friend of mine said, Medellin is only one bombing or one election away from becoming a place to avoid.
By the way what group are you in, 1 or 2?
I'm sure DAS already has all the information they need on both of us.
The US cannot share my income tax info. with any foreign country. What part of unreported Colombian income and near total lack of enforcement do you not understand?
If my property taxes go up, so do the taxes of everyone else in my estrato. Do you suppose that they would even attempt a 100% increase in estrato 4?
Capital gains taxes are paid on any investment that you sell. Why should Colombia be any different?
Your posts are beginning to make less sense.
Medellin Rum
12-28-07, 02:40
What is your yearly property tax and how much capital gains tax do you pay when you sell? Today that is. How long have you been in Colombia and when do you automatically become a citizen? What is the world tax rate on your income after you become a Colombian Citizen? I have a friend that is a so called NMG who is actually wealthy. He is cheap and would not spend more then 80K on a chica or more then $60 on a room. Would class would he fall into, 1 or 2?
I'm sure he has a lot more money then both you and I combined.
You have to pay capital gain taxes in many countries including the US and Canada. So how does this make investing in Colombia any worse than buying in NYC or Toronto?
Hello Tom and hope your doing well. Anyone, including me, can FOIA your tax returns from the IRS. The IRS has numerous agreements with other countries to share tax information. If you don't know what a FOIA is you can google it. If you don't believe the IRS agreements are true you can verify it with ease. Additionally, DAS probably has more info on both of us then we ever imagined.
Medellin is a great city and I enjoy the climate and the people. My plan is to pass on buying property or becoming an automatic resident after living in Colombia for 5 years. Like a friend of mine said, Medellin is only one bombing or one election away from becoming a place to avoid.
By the way what group are you in, 1 or 2?
I'm sure DAS already has all the information they need on both of us.
You can file an FOIA request for my tax info. But you will either not get it or it will be so severely redacted as to be useless.
DIAN handles taxation, not DAS. And anyone in Colombia can have as much information as they want. They need to know what to do with it. They seem to have a enough of a problem collecting taxes from people who live here and generate all their income here.
Casa Medellin
12-28-07, 15:08
Once again, the guys who really have no money trying to expain money situations to those who do.
What is your yearly property tax and how much capital gains tax do you pay when you sell? Today that is. How long have you been in Colombia and when do you automatically become a citizen? What is the world tax rate on your income after you become a Colombian Citizen? I have a friend that is a so called NMG who is actually wealthy. He is cheap and would not spend more then 80K on a chica or more then $60 on a room. Would class would he fall into, 1 or 2?
I'm sure he has a lot more money then both you and I combined.
Precocious One
12-28-07, 15:43
you can file an foia request for my tax info. but you will either not get it or it will be so severely redacted as to be useless.
dian handles taxation, not das. and anyone in colombia can have as much information as they want. they need to know what to do with it. they seem to have a enough of a problem collecting taxes from people who live here and generate all their income here.
if you are a foreigner that owns property in colombia or any other country, and they claim that you owe taxes, that particular government will have absolutely no problem collecting it from you. like the us, they will simply slap a lien on your property. but unlike the us, probably at usury interest rates in the high twenties not including penalties. and yes, you will pay it. the us consulate and international law will be of no help to you. i have nothing but respect for aussie greg and casa medellin for having the balls to throw down, but [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off a government official there and your 100 percent paid-off property could be in great peril. ditto that for any alleged criminal charges against you such as statutory [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) or trying to collect on a debt such as an insurance claim.
Casa Medellin
12-28-07, 16:01
I would like to discus stuff actually related to buying property in Colombia. I am more than welcome to share here with others the process involved in doing so, and my experiences, good and bad.
I would also like to discus real estate prices and where to find good deals.
However, I am getting tired of people who have never bought anything coming in here with all the negativity. If you do not want to invest in Colombia then why are you in the buying property forum?
Sure there are taxes everywhere. Sure there can be risk. But if someone is not interested in taking risk then why try to scare off others? Is there some other ulterior motive?
So what if someone blew up a bomb and scared all the gringos away. I would just sell to a Colombian. Or if the one in a million chance the country went like Venezuela, I would just rent the property out for 5, 10 or 20 years until things were better. I only spend the play money in Colombia. It is not like I would go without.
My world income, my taxes, my residency and citizenship are all my business and no one else's, especially people I do not know on a forum.
I would like to explain to people here how to legally setup offshore trusts, investments and banking things. But there is just too much negativity from the NMGs to have a serious conversation about these complicated things.
if you are a foreigner that owns property in colombia or any other country, and they claim that you owe taxes, that particular government will have absolutely no problem collecting it from you. like the us, they will simply slap a lien on your property. but unlike the us, probably at usury interest rates in the high twenties not including penalties. and yes, you will pay it. the us consulate and international law will be of no help to you. i have nothing but respect for aussie greg and casa medellin for having the balls to throw down, but [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off a government official there and your 100 percent paid-off property could be in great peril. ditto that for any alleged criminal charges against you such as statutory [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) or trying to collect on a debt such as an insurance claim.
umm, you are right, of course. but what does that have to do with my statement?
the problem lies not with the collection. it lies with enforcement. it is common in colombia to not report the full amount of a property sale. no one, including dian, seems to care.
Sailor2006
12-28-07, 17:00
Any one have any experience selling a property in Colombia being a US Citizen only?
Precocious One
12-28-07, 18:19
Umm, you are right, of course. But what does that have to do with my statement?
The problem lies not with the collection. It lies with enforcement. It is common in Colombia to not report the full amount of a property sale. No one, including DIAN, seems to care.
Sorry Tom, I should have elaborated. I was referring to income as opposed to capital gains tax. I have looked at some these properties in 2007, and the CAP rates were no better than the US.
That, for an american investor, is simply crazy. Fortunately for some such as Aussie Greg and Casa Medellin who got in early (pre-2003), they have done extremely well. But the same case could be made for SoCal RE in that same time frame.
Investing right now in a volatile and overbuilt third world country at a CAP rate of six or less seems very, very risky. Florida, which is almost in itself it's own melting pot country, is currently a prime example when demand does not meet supply.
Any one have any experience selling a property in Colombia being a US Citizen only?
I know several US citizens who have sold property in Colombia. What do you want to know?
Traylor Park
12-28-07, 23:04
I have been involved in about 15 million USD in real estate transactions in Colombia so l probably know a little more than some of the NMGs who give out free bad advice on the beach in Cartagena. Your post, which I will not quote in its entiriety, has got to be one of the most informative post I've ever read about "investing in Colombia."
Why anyone would want to attack you, instead of asking more important questions, which hopefully you would be able to answer, is beyond me.
I, for one, appreciate you valuable contribution to this topic.
Casa Medellin
12-28-07, 23:37
But I did not buy anything in Medellin until 1 year ago. The value of my stuff in Medellin is up at least 50% in that one year. The stuff in Cartagena was purchased in 2004 and is up 300%. There are still good deals out there.
[QUOTE=Precocious One]Fortunately for some such as Aussie Greg and Casa Medellin who got in early (pre-2003), they have done extremely well.[QUOTE]
Sailor2006
12-29-07, 02:16
You didn't listen to my question I'll repeat it again for you.
Has anyone sold their purchased property in Colombia and returned the monies back to the United States?
I wasnt looking for this answear
Yeah my best friends, cousins, sisters, roommates, godson, did. How is anybody supposed to take any "2nd hand" answear.
I am sorry to offend I don't wanna be rude, but I think the base of the argument or conversation here is tax code, laws, and what a "gringo" would be able to take out of the country and back to his own country, and all I get for an answear is percents, and arrogance. Why is asking this question on the RE thread considered offensive or negative? I think its an important question for anybody intrested in home purchase or investment.
I know several US citizens who have sold property in Colombia. What do you want to know?
Medellin Rum
12-29-07, 03:48
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the content of the report was largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!
You didn't listen to my question I'll repeat it again for you.
Has anyone sold their purchased property in Colombia and returned the monies back to the United States?
I wasnt looking for this answear
Yeah my best friends, cousins, sisters, roommates, godson, did. How is anybody supposed to take any "2nd hand" answear.
I am sorry to offend I don't wanna be rude, but I think the base of the argument or conversation here is tax code, laws, and what a "gringo" would be able to take out of the country and back to his own country, and all I get for an answear is percents, and arrogance. Why is asking this question on the RE thread considered offensive or negative? I think its an important question for anybody intrested in home purchase or investment.our response is quite rude. You have earned an ignore.
You are asking for experiences of strangers on the Internet. Yet anything that anyone knows from close friends is in some way meaningless?
Medellin Rum
12-29-07, 16:32
Sailor,
No one can answer because no one has done it!
You didn't listen to my question I'll repeat it again for you.
Has anyone sold their purchased property in Colombia and returned the monies back to the United States?
I wasnt looking for this answear
Yeah my best friends, cousins, sisters, roommates, godson, did. How is anybody supposed to take any "2nd hand" answear.
I am sorry to offend I don't wanna be rude, but I think the base of the argument or conversation here is tax code, laws, and what a "gringo" would be able to take out of the country and back to his own country, and all I get for an answear is percents, and arrogance. Why is asking this question on the RE thread considered offensive or negative? I think its an important question for anybody intrested in home purchase or investment.
Bango Cheito
12-29-07, 21:19
IF you filed Form 4 and Form 11 at the appropriate times with the Banco De La Republica, you will be allowed to repatriate your dinero without penalty. Otherwise you will be taxed and taxed HEAVILY under Colombian capital control law, up to 47%.
I know ONE person who managed to get the money back out without losing his shirt. His situation was really unique and complicated though, mainly because he wanted to repatriate the money BEFORE the signing of the Promesa de Compra y Venta.
If you're doing a real estate transaction in Colombia and worried about having to repatriate the funds later, DO file Form 4 with the Promesa and Form 11 within the proper time frame after. Do NOT let anybody tell you they are not necessary, THEY ARE! Most people buying real estate in Colombia from outside the country are BIG foreign investors who work out their own deals, or returning Colombian citizens who have no plans to take that money back out.
Casa Medellin
12-30-07, 04:08
Thank you. But I am not going to post in the forum any more since it is just too much dealing with the flamers. If you are interested in buying something I will be happy to give you some tips for free. My email address is on my web site. I want to help all the gringos move here just so it pisses off the guys on here who do not want more people in Medellin. So from now on everyone is welcome to email me directly.
The reason they attact anyone who tells people how to invest here is because they want no gringos here. Several of them are posting things just to make people scared. For instance, repatriating the money is easy as long as you do the right paperwork. They are trying to say no one has done it but many have.
Your post, which I will not quote in its entiriety, has got to be one of the most informative post I've ever read about "investing in Colombia."
Why anyone would want to attack you, instead of asking more important questions, which hopefully you would be able to answer, is beyond me.
I, for one, appreciate you valuable contribution to this topic.
Sailor2006
12-30-07, 20:47
1. Finding orginal report titles is getting difficult.
2. Nobody is going to scare away anybody, the gringo invasion has begun, period.
Thank you. But I am not going to post in the forum any more since it is just too much dealing with the flamers. If you are interested in buying something I will be happy to give you some tips for free. My email address is on my web site. I want to help all the gringos move here just so it pisses off the guys on here who do not want more people in Medellin. So from now on everyone is welcome to email me directly.
The reason they attact anyone who tells people how to invest here is because they want no gringos here. Several of them are posting things just to make people scared. For instance, repatriating the money is easy as long as you do the right paperwork. They are trying to say no one has done it but many have.
Sandman0011
12-31-07, 18:45
I got a PM asking for a link to the info I posted. Here it is;
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/sk/?id=101122
The big questions I have is this: is EVERYONE in? I'm not talking about individuals who are buying a house or an apartment. I'm talking about developers and major speculators who are pouring in billions of dollars.
Medellin is experiencing a building boom. As of October, 2007, there were 145 high-rises under construction in Medellín, including 29 being approved, and 25 being proposed. That is more than NY, Philadelphia and Los Angeles combined.
Rumors are running around that Wal-mart plans to open a Super Wal Mart here. Pan America just opened it's first Medellin Location. The new Centro Comercial Premium Plaza just opened, two blocks away from San Diego, Oviedo is expanding across the street with a 5 story addition.
A French casino group is expanding it's investment in Exito/Pomona.
Yeah, I'd say the big boys are "in".
Anybody know some good websites listing property (apartments and penthouses) for sale in Medellin? Preferably non-gringo oriented. The kind that Colombianos would look at if they were looking online for nice properties. Spanish language ok, preferred actually.
Anybody know some good websites listing property (apartments and penthouses) for sale in Medellin? Preferably non-gringo oriented. The kind that Colombianos would look at if they were looking online for nice properties. Spanish language ok, preferred actually.Colombianos use the web for very little. Any web site you find would not really be geared toward them.
Sandman0011
04-18-08, 15:41
www.medellinpenthouses.com
Also, www.medellintravelguide.com/medellin_aptlistings.html for rental apartments
Anybody know some good websites listing property (apartments and penthouses) for sale in Medellin? Preferably non-gringo oriented. The kind that Colombianos would look at if they were looking online for nice properties. Spanish language ok, preferred actually.
Sailor2006
04-18-08, 17:23
www.informeinmobiliario.com
Colombian magazine with new contruction and some used apartment listing, beware prices are high, as in one month edition the same used apartment was 330 million and then 370 million in 6 months and is still not sold!
You can pick up the magazine in any supermarket.
Thanks for the links. www.informeinmobiliario.com was the kind of site I was looking for. Just want to get an idea of what is available and what the asking prices are.
Here's a couple of other sites I found:
http://colombia.inmobiliaria.com/
http://www.cdoconstructora.com/
If your looking for an exclusive property in Medellin, Colombia please check this link:
http://www.medellin-rentals.com/medellin-homes-for-sale.html
We will be adding more Penthouses, Casas, Fincas and Apartments for sale in the near future along with a new Web-Site for Real Estate.
VIP Hotel & Mansion
If you wanted to buy a condo in the heart of a city, Medellin or Bogota, how much would it be? No more then 40,000 usd.
Traylor Park
05-22-08, 03:47
Anybody know some good websites listing property (apartments and penthouses) for sale in Medellin? Preferably non-gringo oriented. The kind that Colombianos would look at if they were looking online for nice properties. Spanish language ok, preferred actually.
http://www.carrosmotosybienes.com/casas_list.php
Traylor Park
05-22-08, 03:53
Real Estate for sale in Antioquia, sans gringo prices.
http://www.compra-venta.org/colombia/inmobiliaria.phtml?zona=Antioquia
Traylor Park
05-22-08, 03:59
http://www.ibgcasas.com/col_listings/
If you wanted to buy a condo in the heart of a city, Medellin or Bogota, how much would it be? No more then 40,000 usd.In your dreams. That may have been true in 2003, but certainly not today. With the peso at less than 1800, you would be lucky to get a very small condo for US$80K in a good neighborhood.
I am currently asking 215 million COP for a 3-bedroom condo in an older building near the center of Medellín. If that apartment was in a new building in Poblado, it would sell for about three times more.
AddictedToWomen
06-04-08, 21:22
In your dreams. That may have been true in 2003, but certainly not today. With the peso at less than 1800, you would be lucky to get a very small condo for US$80K in a good neighborhood.
I am currently asking 215 million COP for a 3-bedroom condo in an older building near the center of Medellín. If that apartment was in a new building in Poblado, it would sell for about three times more.Agreed. There's nothing in Bogotá (at least any part of Bogotá you'd want to live it) for much less than that. The market's been hot for some years now.
For instance check out:
http://contenido.metrocuadrado.com/contenidom2/ciudyprec_m2/inforbog_m2/informacindesectores/6.html
and
http://contenido.metrocuadrado.com/contenidom2/ciudyprec_m2/inforbog_m2/informacindesectores/IMAGEN-WEB-PL_DET_IMAGEN_M2-2009582.html
The news is that transaction volumes are now falling, though this hasn't fed through into prices. If that's just a matter of time or if the Colombian market is somehow different I don't know.
Theories welcome.
El Vagabundo
06-05-08, 05:44
Agreed. There's nothing in Bogotá (at least any part of Bogotá you'd want to live it) for much less than that. The market's been hot for some years now.
For instance check out:
http://contenido.metrocuadrado.com/contenidom2/ciudyprec_m2/inforbog_m2/informacindesectores/6.html
and
http://contenido.metrocuadrado.com/contenidom2/ciudyprec_m2/inforbog_m2/informacindesectores/IMAGEN-WEB-PL_DET_IMAGEN_M2-2009582.html
The news is that transaction volumes are now falling, though this hasn't fed through into prices. If that's just a matter of time or if the Colombian market is somehow different I don't know.
Theories welcome.The Colombian market and mentality is different from the US market. Colombians in general do not lower prices. They just hold at the price they want until the market, inflation or the exchange rate catches up. The pain of loosing a single peso is so deep for them; they will cut off their nose despite their face.
You can apply this to most small business here and then it all makes sense. A restaurant serves you a bad meal and they say I sorry, but never comps you. The taxi gets lost and you have to take another taxi, but he wants to get paid. A 10 year old car cost 3 to 5 times as much as a car in the US. They paid 12 million for it new in 1997 and want 12 million 10 years later (A new one now cost 30).
This is also one of the reasons the price of pussy is so high in the usual places. One girl, one time gets 300 thousand and then next time she is offered 150 thousand. She thinks "I do not want to lose 150 thousand". Again, this is only one of the reasons, but a large part.
I hope this helps
For Medellin Property listings, sales and rentals check http://www.rentapartmentsmedellin.com
AddictedToWomen
06-07-08, 11:56
They paid 12 million for it new in 1997 and want 12 million 10 years later (A new one now cost 30).I don't know about the property market, but the car market I do, and this is just not true: there's serious depreciation on (private) cars (less on taxis due to inflation in the value of the operators license).
Check out El Tiempo classifieds for evidence.
Bango Cheito
06-07-08, 12:59
Totally wrong. I've had taxis not be able to take me to destination and they did NOT charge me. And the price of used cars has been PLUMMETING in Colombia over the past 2 years. Used car prices in South America are typically high because used cars are better taken care of than used cars in North America and associated costs like repairs and insurance are cheaper but at the same time the cars themselves have been less available, so all of that conspires to keep the price up, but now with new cars flooding the market in major cities prices have gone down rapidly.
Stupid girls holding out for a high price happens everywhere in the world. I've seen the same phenomenon many times at underground parties in NYC too!
Fact is in Colombia people are MORE likely to lower their prices than in the USA IN GENERAL. They just may not lower their prices for YOU if they think you've got it like that.
AddictedToWomen
06-11-08, 15:02
More thoughts on property prices in Bogota...
Has anyone heard it suggested that there's a price bubble? I searched Google but couldn't find anything, but the number of "invest in Colombia" property fairs would be consistent with that.
Would that suggest that, apart from the value of dollar, now is a bad time to buy? Anyone know how Bogota prices compare with those in other LA/SA capitals?
There is a real estate bubble in some parts of Colombia. People that refuse to acknowledge the bubble are the same sort of people that were in a state of denial regarding the U.S. real estate bubble in 2005, the U.S. stock market bubble in 2000, the dual Japanese bubbles in 1990 and every other financial bubble in world history.
The Colombian economy has had a good run for a variety of reasons, but currently it is much closer to the end than the beginning.
AddictedToWomen
06-12-08, 11:59
There is a real estate bubble in some parts of Colombia. People that refuse to acknowledge the bubble are the same sort of people that were in a state of denial regarding the U.S. real estate bubble in 2005, the U.S. stock market bubble in 2000, the dual Japanese bubbles in 1990 and every other financial bubble in world history.
The Colombian economy has had a good run for a variety of reasons, but currently it is much closer to the end than the beginning.I'm not so sure. If Uribe can crack the guerrilla problem Colombia could become a really nice place, and a good place for thousands of Americans to retire to. Hence my interest in comparative pricing with other SA/LA countries. Should we be investing in Colombia now? It could be a bubble. Or it could be a reaction to growth.
I'd love to see some hard evidence.
I'm not so sure. If Uribe can crack the guerrilla problem Colombia could become a really nice place, and a good place for thousands of Americans to retire to. Hence my interest in comparative pricing with other SA/LA countries. Should we be investing in Colombia now? It could be a bubble. Or it could be a reaction to growth.
I'd love to see some hard evidence.All bubbles begin with a "reaction to growth" initially. The inevitable bust begins when the growth slows. There is growth in Colombia, but that growth will slow eventually.
Uribe won't be president forever.
What has followed almost every economic boom in Latin American history?
It's your money.
Bango Cheito
06-21-08, 04:35
I think there will be a correction, but a relatively small one.
Sailor2006
09-25-08, 03:30
Ok, lets get this party started. I use observation as a key to understanding the world around me.
My first observation and this is global, that with the increase in tourism comes crime, period. Anybody want to challenge that? I think this is common sense.
Crime, Murder and theft. Majority of colombians live in poor barrios some of these barrios come under the control of local gangs whom wander around on sundays collecting protection money, some of these gangs have even placed curfews on barrios, and killed homo sexuals at will. This is fact pick up a newspaper. However you are correct; murders in Medellin have come down greatly, more police presence, no Narco-wars ect. But not all crimes in Colombia get reported especially in the barrios, the police don't show up to take a report, and barrios normally take care of problems on their own, IE protection money.
I would not walk around centrol at night, with out speaking spanish and knowing where you are going, chances are nothing will happen to you, as their is some police on patrol but why take a chance like that? Again do not go walking around centrol at night by yourself.
Wow, real estate. I don't throw figures around but again use simple observation, logic and the rules of " supply and demand" to support my claims. All you need to do is look around at all the new construction and see ample supply, if you look closer you see many "se vende" signs these signs stay up for YEARS at a time, however some how, prices continue to rise, how is that so? Asking prices for the apartment across the way has increased from 330 Milliones, to 415 Milliones, in less then a year, the unit remains unsold, again I ask why? Doesn't seem to follow the logic of supply and demand, but more the laws of speculation to me. But again this is my observation and doesn't mean anything
I realize this is Colombia, there is much influx of drug money being invested and hidden in construction and real estate. History shows that these venues are the easy way to hide money. Again Colombia is improving and many banks aboard are investing in construction, malls, stores, apartments and housing. I belive this is what will create the collapse, there arnt that many sales (observation), and when projects built with credit need sales they will lower their prices, and POP goes the bubble! Its easy for projects backed with solid money to hold off and keep prices high, shit the purpose of the projects is to hide money not sell apartments.
As for gringo buyers, I add all outside money as "gringo money". I think I'll try and make my point about gringos buying real estate in Medellin this way. Since everybody on here I assume has negotiated with hookers, and if your on this thread probly have done so with colombians. As you know some of these lovely gals will quote extremly high prices, even in establishments with prices already set, they will try to rip you off more then double or triple the asking prices. If you don't meet their price they litterally walk away. Becuase ripping you off is the standard; you are a gringo, and you must pay more period. The stakes when talking to a hooker are only a matter of few dollars maybe even hundreds of dollars and this tough little lady lives in culture taught to respect and fear men, colombian men that is. Now I ask a question do you expect fair treatment from a colombian male, or seller in this culture where hundreds of thousands of dollars are at stake? You can answear that.
As for the number of gringos buying apartments, you probly right on, its low. But as low as it is don't you think its every sellers dream to encounter a american buyer? A costa rican family once told me "that I can currently sell my home for 100K Dollars, or I can wait 2 years for a gringo to pay me double or triple my price" wouldn't you wanna wait? Especially after the point you made with facts and figures; most colombian homes are owned out right or with little borrowed money, no reason to rush a sale here. We can keep that for sale sign up for 1-2 years we can afford to wait.
As for the job market, and growing middle class, increase in wages I agree with you, its simple pay more people spend more, it improves the economy. You can e-mail some of the colombians about that, wages don't go up here, not to match inflation or even come close to it, things are more expensive then ever, poblado is nice, but poblado is not Colombia, GDP is not the only measure of economic growth wish it was. I see more credit options coming into play, for autos and housing and visa is advertising like crazy, why pay more wages when we can loan them more money.
The circle of wealth that gringo see in poblado comes from two things, drugs and real estate, land owners, and now speculators these guys have sold their moms house in poblado to a construction company for 500K USD, they take that money and reinvest it back into rental property and apartments then go out and buy a new car.
All this is my opinon and isn't really worth anything, its just my observation and thoughts. But then again I am not trying to sell anything on here
You bring up a lot of interesting points but I believe some of them need clarification. As far as crime goes the murder and crime rates have dropped here significantly over the past seven years and in fact the murder rate for Medellin is now lower than a number of US cities including Wash DC, Baltimore, St Louis, Atlanta, Detroit, New Orleans, to name a few. I feel safer walking at night in El Centro than I do any of those cities and others. Will the crime rate go up as tourism increases here, nobody knows but we do know that Colombia and Medellin have been working hard to improve security here and reduce crime. Are they going to throw all that away as tourism increases?
You seem to be concerned about rising real estate prices here and the rich Americans are the blame now and more so in the future. Well the nice steady price appreciation that is occurring here (unllike the speculative debacle that recently occurred in the US because of poor lending practices and greed on the part of the banks) is occurring without US buying, which represents well under 1% of sales in Medellin. Conversely here you pay cash or put at least 30% down with a 17% interest rate 15 yr amortization mortgage if you are a Colombian. No speculative frenzy here. But more importatanly is the $ per sq meter for property here. Medellin is one of the lowest priced cosmopolitan cities in the world bsed upon that metric. And the other higher priced cities pale in comparison to what Medellin has to offer.
Finally your concern about continuing higher real estate prices. Yes they probably will go up as more US and European buyers and corporate interests enter the market. But this international particpation will also be doing something else. Creating higher paying jobs (and new jobs) so more of the poor people can move up to the middle class. Creating a growing middle class is the key to shedding a third world status. The educational infrastructure is here and the people are motivated. So they deserve the chance and international investing here will be a major key.
The downside to this scenario is that you sold your aptartment too cheaply and left several million pesos on the table and the rest of us have to pay more for meals, drinks and pussy. It still beats the US.
I would not walk around centrol at night, with out speaking spanish and knowing where you are going, chances are nothing will happen to you, as their is some police on patrol but why take a chance like that? Again do not go walking around centrol at night by yourself.
Wow, real estate. I don't throw figures around but again use simple observation, logic and the rules of " supply and demand" to support my claims. All you need to do is look around at all the new construction and see ample supply, if you look closer you see many "se vende" signs these signs stay up for YEARS at a time, however some how, prices continue to rise, how is that so? Asking prices for the apartment across the way has increased from 330 Milliones, to 415 Milliones, in less then a year, the unit remains unsold, again I ask why? Doesn't seem to follow the logic of supply and demand, but more the laws of speculation to me. But again this is my observation and doesn't mean anything
I realize this is Colombia, there is much influx of drug money being invested and hidden in construction and real estate. History shows that these venues are the easy way to hide money. Again Colombia is improving and many banks aboard are investing in construction, malls, stores, apartments and housing. I belive this is what will create the collapse, there arnt that many sales (observation), and when projects built with credit need sales they will lower their prices, and POP goes the bubble! Its easy for projects backed with solid money to hold off and keep prices high, shit the purpose of the projects is to hide money not sell apartments.
As for gringo buyers, I add all outside money as "gringo money". I think I'll try and make my point about gringos buying real estate in Medellin this way. Since everybody on here I assume has negotiated with hookers, and if your on this thread probly have done so with colombians. As you know some of these lovely gals will quote extremly high prices, even in establishments with prices already set, they will try to rip you off more then double or triple the asking prices. If you don't meet their price they litterally walk away. Becuase ripping you off is the standard; you are a gringo, and you must pay more period. The stakes when talking to a hooker are only a matter of few dollars maybe even hundreds of dollars and this tough little lady lives in culture taught to respect and fear men, colombian men that is. Now I ask a question do you expect fair treatment from a colombian male, or seller in this culture where hundreds of thousands of dollars are at stake? You can answear that.
As for the number of gringos buying apartments, you probly right on, its low. But as low as it is don't you think its every sellers dream to encounter a american buyer? A costa rican family once told me "that I can currently sell my home for 100K Dollars, or I can wait 2 years for a gringo to pay me double or triple my price" wouldn't you wanna wait? Especially after the point you made with facts and figures; most colombian homes are owned out right or with little borrowed money, no reason to rush a sale here. We can keep that for sale sign up for 1-2 years we can afford to wait.
As for the job market, and growing middle class, increase in wages I agree with you, its simple pay more people spend more, it improves the economy. You can e-mail some of the colombians about that, wages don't go up here, not to match inflation or even come close to it, things are more expensive then ever, poblado is nice, but poblado is not Colombia, GDP is not the only measure of economic growth wish it was. I see more credit options coming into play, for autos and housing and visa is advertising like crazy, why pay more wages when we can loan them more money.
The circle of wealth that gringo see in poblado comes from two things, drugs and real estate, land owners, and now speculators these guys have sold their moms house in poblado to a construction company for 500K USD, they take that money and reinvest it back into rental property and apartments then go out and buy a new car.
All this is my opinon and isn't really worth anything, its just my observation and thoughts. But then again I am not trying to sell anything on here[/QUOTE]You again make some interesting points many based upon emotion and inuendo but some with fact and obvious street experience.
First I agree, never go to El Centro at night by yourself. When I go there it is in a group of 2-4 large dressed down gringos who know where to park and know who to watch out for you and your car.common sense obviously important here. But I would not go to Liberty City, the Bronx, East LA, etc. With any amount of gringos at night.
As far as real estate goes I will try to give you some facts to temper your emotions. You talk about supply and se vende signs. Well the supply is substantial yet the market keeps moving up. I have puzzled over that. You mentioned drug money involvement. Well are they the sellers or buyers? Most of the purchases that we see in Stratus 5-6 areas are from Colombian, Venezuelan, Brazilian and other latin and central american buyers. So the supply is being absorbed and interestingly the buyers are paying a 30% premium to purchase new construction. Part of this is due to the fact they can buy over time. However there is a big difference between the Colombian buyers and the American buyers. The Colombians want new. It is a status thing. The Americans want value, view and location. They do not vind existing real estate which is often better built and larger. Colombians don't appreciate views because the poorest people in Santo Domingo and Buenas Aires here have million dollar views. Because of this we are able to find excellent values in El Poblado between $550-$900 per square meter, well below any other cosmopolitan city in the world. A year ago El Poblado passed a moritoruim on new building permits so any construction now is grandfathered in. Plus there is not much land left. So my question to you is "waht happens to prices when the inventory is depleted and the Americans and Europeans start buying"?
Another old wive's tale that we need to dispel is that the seller sees the gringo buyer coming and starts likcing his chops. Well it is just the opposite my friend. We just lost a deal last week because the seller would rather sell to a local even though we had funds in hand. They get nervouse dealing with foreigners and bank wires, etc. Prices are what they are. It is either priced right or it isn't. You can always make an offer. You bought your place and now have a nice profit. Are you the only gringo smart enough to negotiate a good deal. Hopefully a good realtor can assist in that process. It is value, view, location, amentities, admin. Fees, taxes, etc. Not rocket science.
We seem to sort of be in agreement about the economy and the need to improve the conditions for the average person. I believe if Colombian and Medellin can attract responsible quality foreign investment and corporations everybody will benefit and the influence of the drug money will gradually diminsh over time. A vibrant economy and higher wages could transform this country into something truly special. They have a big head start by being an energy exporter. The paisa culture is something truly unique. We should be proud and honored to be a part of this. Some are helping the street girls take care of their familys, educations and boyfriends while others are trying to create meaninful companies that create jobs and add to the local economy.
Lets all work together, have a good time, respect the culture and the people, give something back and start dealing in facts.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Sailor2006
09-25-08, 22:18
"Well the supply is substantial yet the market keeps moving up. I have puzzled over that. " Soooo you don't have an answear?
Economics seems very simple to me "supply and demand" If supply is high and ample then demand is low, which means there are not many buyers to fill vacancys. Am I wrong on this? I am young only 28 and only an observer in matters of real estate, but when supply is ample, and demand low prices should fall inorder to entice a sale no? Again am I wrong? With new construction projects all over town, "se vende" signs every where along with sales desks at every new construction site in addition to units still avilable to me there is ample supply. As for prices, which we both agree on, continue to rise despite having to wait 1 or more years to make a sale.
Now with my observations of ample supply and continued price increase I am going to asssume a few things, one assumption is that Medellin has asking prices for property that are overinflated, many sellers will not negotiate on price and rather wait years for a potential buyer to meet their price. I personally don't think thats a healthy economic attitude, and you said something wich will lead off to my next point.
"in El Poblado between $550-$900 per square meter, well below any other cosmopolitan city in the world. A year ago El Poblado passed a moritoruim on new building permits so any construction now is grandfathered in. Plus there is not much land left. So my question to you is "waht happens to prices when the inventory is depleted and the Americans and Europeans start buying"?
Wow, lets begin on this one. You want to compare prices in Medellin to that in other cosmopolitan cities which is fair, yes its cheaper, but trying to justify price inflation and price gouging by saying well its not at the price level of london or san fransico is crazy. You pay what the local market will bare right? Politics, and economics are local no? Gallon of gas cheaper in some states then others right? Housing in texas cheper the most other states. There are many reasons for this, 1. Supply and demand, 2. Location and costs of transportation, 3. Local economy what people earn and can afford to spend.
So if supply in Medellin is ample, and demand low, why do prices continue to increase? Becuase the attiude of sellers is "I will wait for a buyer to meet my expectation of what I think the value of my property is" this creates price inflation and price bubbles, everybody wants top dollar for their place, this is true. What keeps prices in check is "what the actual market is" what do people around you buy and sell in Medellin.
LOL. I think what you said in the end is really funny, basically if you think prices are high now wait till theres no more construction then prices will really sky rocket? Thats the point you tried to make, saying wait till supply is tight then prices will climb. Well supply is loose prices still climb, defiying the logic of supply and demand, speculation thats all this is simple speculation and high hopes of profit.
Now I am going to continue with some assumtions, about wealth and construction inorder to reason why prices are so overvalued and why so much construction and limited sales, lots of new pretty buildings around yes? These buildings used to be personal homes right, if you rember the location of the old "lutron" closer down the hill it used to be a pretty house right? And next door was a personal home as well right? Well today they are building a new apartment building, offices ect. How much do you think that family sold the land and house for? Regardless of weather the first construction projects were funded by drug traffickers (which I think this is the case) the sale price was probly in the 800 million in COP PLUS. I will ask another question how many apartment buildings in poblado use to be personal family homes? Hundreds right? Hundreds of homes and lots being purchased any where from 200 million to a billion in COP by construction companies to build apartment complex's. Whats a colombian family from Medellin to do with all that money? Purchase property, investment apartments for rental maybe or resale? Hey look at all this construction must be a boom!
"Most of the purchases that we see in Stratus 5-6 areas are from Colombian, Venezuelan, Brazilian and other latin and central american buyers"
Heres some more observations to rattle around, how many apartments in poblado were purchased for investment? The building next door is about 70% occupid the rest of the units empty for sale or rental or both!
"Another old wive's tale that we need to dispel is that the seller sees the gringo buyer coming and starts likcing his chops. "
Does anybody here really think you are going to get a fair market value price from a colombian seller who purchased a unit for the sole purpose of investment? But when compared to the value in other cities you got a fair deal! So its not soo bad.
Your not the first person to call me emotional, or to challenge my assertions and I respect your position and thoughts but I will ask you where your intrests are? Do you sell apartments for a living? And if so, how can anybody trust facts and figures with the sole purpose to make sales. In todays world honesty is the only thing in short supply especially in the third world.
Colombia has a tough culture, its harsh and there are many many people out there whom want to take you down. Becurefull out there. I may dissagree with you, and I may be wrong again all this is my opinion and it isn't worth much.
Good luck
Too much rambling to comment on. Simple fact. Prices ration markets. Prices are gradually increaseing here because buyers, not Americans, are willing to pay them for whatever reason. New construction is in the $1200-$1500 per sq meter range while existing is in the $550. $1000 for El Poblado. Colombians buy new and while the Americans and foreigners are mostly buying existing. Yes there has been, and is a lot, of new construction which does not seem to be bringing prices down, but it could. However even if that occurs, it will have less of an impact on the already discounted existing market.
Most American buyers just want to get a good value in this market and much of their decison is a life style decision not an investment decision. This is not a great investors market because there is no leverage. On the other hand it is a good investors market if you look at ROI's and cap rates where rentals are concerned. But bottom line is you do not have rampant speculation in markets where you have to pay all cash or at a minimum 30% down.
Medellin is still cheap compared to the world markets. And especially cheap when this year prices just dropped 35% for Americans when the peso went from 1626 to 2188 in four months. Now that is something important and dwarfs all of your concerns about se vende signs and sellers sitting on their prices. So some Colombian investors have no mortgage and want to sit on their properties and raise their prices. So what. We don't have to buy their unit.
This is a different market from the US. Find a good place at a good price and enjoy it. If we don't get a jump in prices like what happended in Panama and Costa Rica, and the world never learns what a great place this is, you still got a nice place for a nice price and are living better than you did in the US. And you are not worrying about an adjustable ARM and rising mortgage payments, increasing insurance payments, hurricanes, tornadoes, rampant tax increases, condo commandos, foreclosures, etc.
Worst case is good and best case which you don't seem to like, having to worry about taking a big capital gain.
Aussie Greg
09-26-08, 17:40
Just my view Senor Lotto,
I agree with you about prices rising with property and yes, its not Americians, its the fast rising middle class Colombians and for example.
The Mansion property has trebbled and El Castillo has doubled.
Down on Ave Poblado, new construction is closer to 3,000,000 per meter and just two blocks away old construction is 2,200,000 (top floor penthouse)
You must remember, Colombia is no normal market because of so much dirty money and carnt be judged by any other normal country or market.
Tourism is going through the roof here in Colombia, even with the Mansion being robbed!
All in all, life is good here in Colombia and I here it from all the Mansion guests, they would live here if they could.
Aussie Greg.
Too much rambling to comment on. Simple fact. Prices ration markets. Prices are gradually increaseing here because buyers, not Americans, are willing to pay them for whatever reason. New construction is in the $1200-$1500 per sq meter range while existing is in the $550. $1000 for El Poblado. Colombians buy new and while the Americans and foreigners are mostly buying existing. Yes there has been, and is a lot, of new construction which does not seem to be bringing prices down, but it could. However even if that occurs, it will have less of an impact on the already discounted existing market.
Most American buyers just want to get a good value in this market and much of their decison is a life style decision not an investment decision. This is not a great investors market because there is no leverage. On the other hand it is a good investors market if you look at ROI's and cap rates where rentals are concerned. But bottom line is you do not have rampant speculation in markets where you have to pay all cash or at a minimum 30% down.
Medellin is still cheap compared to the world markets. And especially cheap when this year prices just dropped 35% for Americans when the peso went from 1626 to 2188 in four months. Now that is something important and dwarfs all of your concerns about se vende signs and sellers sitting on their prices. So some Colombian investors have no mortgage and want to sit on their properties and raise their prices. So what. We don't have to buy their unit.
This is a different market from the US. Find a good place at a good price and enjoy it. If we don't get a jump in prices like what happended in Panama and Costa Rica, and the world never learns what a great place this is, you still got a nice place for a nice price and are living better than you did in the US. And you are not worrying about an adjustable ARM and rising mortgage payments, increasing insurance payments, hurricanes, tornadoes, rampant tax increases, condo commandos, foreclosures, etc.
Worst case is good and best case which you don't seem to like, having to worry about taking a big capital gain.
Sailor2006
09-26-08, 18:40
You haven't even come close to answearing my simple question, and you seem to be a professional. You say I am rambling, My CO said the exact same thing when I was trying to talk him out of trying to kick out all the midshipmen who had a CGPA of less then 2. 5, he especially didn't like it when I asked him what the average CGPA at the Academy, Your rambling too much Mr. Goulas (2003 CGPA at school was 2. 7 with average course load of 170 Semester hours in 4 years). Anywaz back to my point. Since your only answear to my question confuses me becuase it doesn't seem to be true
Prices are gradually increaseing here because buyers, not Americans, are willing to pay them for whatever reason.
Well this isn't true, "se vende" signs are up for years or more, years to make a sale, how many years would it take to currently sell all the vacant apartments in Medellin, not too mention the new construction? Obviously buyers arnt coming down in bunches fighting over each other to buy at these prices, and if they do buy its in the hopes to sell to somebody outside the market who doesn't know anything. Ie Gringos, and sex tourists.
Everybody wants a good value period, but whats good value when prices are inflated, sellers are gouging sitting and waiting for a sucker, and most buyers think with their thier second head and come from outside the market, with only a limited understanding of the country/economy of the place. Makes for a prefect enviorment for "unethical behavior".
Everything has a cuase an effect, the increase of gringo tourists will bring crime, the increase of outside investors will bring speculation and increase prices to a point where a bubble is created, then brusts. How is that healthy for Colombia, steady upward sloop of value is good, natrual and healthy it matches inflation but price spikes, and artifical booms are created by greed, and in the end only cuase problems for individual buyers and the whole economy.
Most of your post sounds like a sales pitch then a conversation and you can't win those. Good luck
Too much rambling to comment on. Simple fact. Prices ration markets. Prices are gradually increaseing here because buyers, not Americans, are willing to pay them for whatever reason. New construction is in the $1200-$1500 per sq meter range while existing is in the $550. $1000 for El Poblado. Colombians buy new and while the Americans and foreigners are mostly buying existing. Yes there has been, and is a lot, of new construction which does not seem to be bringing prices down, but it could. However even if that occurs, it will have less of an impact on the already discounted existing market.
Most American buyers just want to get a good value in this market and much of their decison is a life style decision not an investment decision. This is not a great investors market because there is no leverage. On the other hand it is a good investors market if you look at ROI's and cap rates where rentals are concerned. But bottom line is you do not have rampant speculation in markets where you have to pay all cash or at a minimum 30% down.
Medellin is still cheap compared to the world markets. And especially cheap when this year prices just dropped 35% for Americans when the peso went from 1626 to 2188 in four months. Now that is something important and dwarfs all of your concerns about se vende signs and sellers sitting on their prices. So some Colombian investors have no mortgage and want to sit on their properties and raise their prices. So what. We don't have to buy their unit.
This is a different market from the US. Find a good place at a good price and enjoy it. If we don't get a jump in prices like what happended in Panama and Costa Rica, and the world never learns what a great place this is, you still got a nice place for a nice price and are living better than you did in the US. And you are not worrying about an adjustable ARM and rising mortgage payments, increasing insurance payments, hurricanes, tornadoes, rampant tax increases, condo commandos, foreclosures, etc.
Worst case is good and best case which you don't seem to like, having to worry about taking a big capital gain.
Just my view Senor Lotto,
I agree with you about prices rising with property and yes, its not Americians, its the fast rising middle class Colombians and for example.
The Mansion property has trebbled and El Castillo has doubled.
Down on Ave Poblado, new construction is closer to 3,000,000 per meter and just two blocks away old construction is 2,200,000 (top floor penthouse)
You must remember, Colombia is no normal market because of so much dirty money and carnt be judged by any other normal country or market.
Tourism is going through the roof here in Colombia, even with the Mansion being robbed!
All in all, life is good here in Colombia and I here it from all the Mansion guests, they would live here if they could.
Aussie Greg.Good acurate post. Thanks for the clarifications. I agree totally.
You help make one of my points. If we are buying in the 1, 000, 000 to 1, 800, 000 peso per square meter range, we are not going to get hurt much no matter what the correcition is, if any, and if the market takes off we stand to gain much. You know that as well as anybody.
Everything has a cuase an effect, the increase of gringo tourists will bring crime, the increase of outside investors will bring speculation and increase prices to a point where a bubble is created, then brusts. How is that healthy for Colombia, steady upward sloop of value is good, natrual and healthy it matches inflation but price spikes, and artifical booms are created by greed, and in the end only cuase problems for individual buyers and the whole economy.
Most of your post sounds like a sales pitch then a conversation and you can't win those. Good luckI've been following the back and forth between yourself and Mr Lotto, I have a simple question - In Canada before they break dirt on a Condo. at least 80% of the Condo must be sold - do they have similar rules in Medellin? or does a construction company simply build on the hope that they will be able to sell them subsequently - the reason I ask is that the last time I was in Medellin (a few months back) there seemed to be a lot of cranes building apartment buildings.
This is really just a question for my education. Thanks.
You haven't even come close to answearing my simple question, and you seem to be a professional. You say I am rambling, My CO said the exact same thing when I was trying to talk him out of trying to kick out all the midshipmen who had a CGPA of less then 2. 5, he especially didn't like it when I asked him what the average CGPA at the Academy, Your rambling too much Mr. Goulas (2003 CGPA at school was 2. 7 with average course load of 170 Semester hours in 4 years). Anywaz back to my point. Since your only answear to my question confuses me becuase it doesn't seem to be true
Prices are gradually increaseing here because buyers, not Americans, are willing to pay them for whatever reason.
Well this isn't true, "se vende" signs are up for years or more, years to make a sale, how many years would it take to currently sell all the vacant apartments in Medellin, not too mention the new construction? Obviously buyers arnt coming down in bunches fighting over each other to buy at these prices, and if they do buy its in the hopes to sell to somebody outside the market who doesn't know anything. Ie Gringos, and sex tourists.
Everybody wants a good value period, but whats good value when prices are inflated, sellers are gouging sitting and waiting for a sucker, and most buyers think with their thier second head and come from outside the market, with only a limited understanding of the country/economy of the place. Makes for a prefect enviorment for "unethical behavior".
Everything has a cuase an effect, the increase of gringo tourists will bring crime, the increase of outside investors will bring speculation and increase prices to a point where a bubble is created, then brusts. How is that healthy for Colombia, steady upward sloop of value is good, natrual and healthy it matches inflation but price spikes, and artifical booms are created by greed, and in the end only cuase problems for individual buyers and the whole economy.
Most of your post sounds like a sales pitch then a conversation and you can't win those. Good luckWow, don't know where to begin except in paragraph one I have no idea what GPA's have to do with this discussion.
Now the broken record. Se vende signs. Sounds like you have been walking around for several years looking at the same se vende signs. What you are not seeing is all the places that are selling and not even putting a sign up. You should probably go and call one of those three year old se vende's and ask him or her about their apartment. Maybe it is priced to high, maybe it has a bad view, small bedrooms, is trashed out or any number of things that might affect a sale. But it sounds like those signs are driving you crazy.
You think they are holding out for dumb gringos and sex tourists. Well my friend the gringos aren't as dumb as you may think and the only thing the sex tourists are buying is pussy.
You keep talking about inflated prices. Well the existing market priced between $500.$800 per sq meter it is cheaper than 49 or the top 50 cosmopolitan cities in the world. Send me a PM and I will senf you a copy of the Business Intelligence report that explains this. By the way the only city cheaper than Medellin is Cairo Egypt. Maybe you should move there?
Next you switch back to the gringo tourists and how they are the bain of all evil and will create a crime wave. Well I hope that you are wrong but since they are not influencing this real estate market that is much ado about nothing.
You need to look at the facts and not get too wrapped up in the fact that there may be some more Americans that may also discover your little paradise here and that they may want to move here also. Obviously none of us want what happened like the gringo invasion in Costa Rica but I think the paisas can hold their own. Meanwhile get your facts straight about the real estate here and quit lookin up at the se vende signs. I think you will be a lot happier unless one of the signs is yours.
Sailor2006
09-28-08, 08:22
Wow, don't know where to begin except in paragraph one I have no idea what GPA's have to do with this discussion.
I was trying to make the point that people who are self intrested often dont listen or think things through, IE in this case you are so intrested in making sales pitch you can not answear a simple question about the world around you, and reply with a sales pitch instead.
Now the broken record. Se vende signs. Sounds like you have been walking around for several years looking at the same se vende signs. What you are not seeing is all the places that are selling and not even putting a sign up. You should probably go and call one of those three year old se vende's and ask him or her about their apartment. Maybe it is priced to high, maybe it has a bad view, small bedrooms, is trashed out or any number of things that might affect a sale. But it sounds like those signs are driving you crazy.
Not really, it would take alot more then "se vende" signs to drive me crazy. God gave me eyes so i use them, i observe whats going on around me and think about it, thats all. I use those eyes to read too, so i posted alink to a colombian website for real estate they provide a free magazine monthly listing used apartments and new projects
http://www.informeinmobiliario.com/index.php?NombreTo=HOME
I would advise you to check them out (if you can read spanish without your little translator) as they will show over the course of a year alot of trendy poblado apartments on the market for a year plus, I will post a few pictures of the two buildings next door with multiple "se Vende" signs, these units are just as nice as mine, not run down but yes over priced. These units were mostly listed for sale, but some are for sale or rent and have been soo for more then a year. i wake up to them everyday.
You think they are holding out for dumb gringos and sex tourists. Well my friend the gringos aren't as dumb as you may think and the only thing the sex tourists are buying is pussy.
Isn' your busniess plan about showing "gringos" a good time with a sundy BBQ, filled with 25 paisas then pitching them real estate? Isn't that you?
You keep talking about inflated prices. Well the existing market priced between $500.$800 per sq meter it is cheaper than 49 or the top 50 cosmopolitan cities in the world. Send me a PM and I will senf you a copy of the Business Intelligence report that explains this. By the way the only city cheaper than Medellin is Cairo Egypt. Maybe you should move there?
There you go again, comparing one local market to another in order to justify price inflation, sorry man that doesnt make sense, i know alot of cheaper places then medellin, they lie in the United States, where home values continue to drop becuase of greedy real estate speculators. A healthy increase in prices is normal and good for economic growth, not price spikes and inflation, they cuase crisis.
Next you switch back to the gringo tourists and how they are the bain of all evil and will create a crime wave. Well I hope that you are wrong but since they are not influencing this real estate market that is much ado about nothing.
I dont just mean "gringo tourists" all tourism increase crime, this is a fact, I dont like it any more then you, but its a fact of life as a place become popular with tourists it will continue to see crime period. why are you soo bent on stating the opposit?
You need to look at the facts and not get too wrapped up in the fact that there may be some more Americans that may also discover your little paradise here and that they may want to move here also. Obviously none of us want what happened like the gringo invasion in Costa Rica but I think the paisas can hold their own. Meanwhile get your facts straight about the real estate here and quit lookin up at the se vende signs. I think you will be a lot happier unless one of the signs is yours.You hit pretty personal there, and as I know who you are I would tred lightly. If I insulted you or your bussniess I appologize. My intent is not to insult Medellin or bussniess owners, just stating a simple fact, supply and demand and that Colombia has alot of sharks out there. My facts are very stright, all I ever said was ample supply should decrease prices, which isn't occurring. The rest was my assumption and opinion and as I said before means nothing. As you seem to be some one who needs to make a living in Medellin I wish you luck, and understand your self intrest is personal, but I have enjoyed the argument and look forward to carrying one out in person if ever given the chance.
I've been following the back and forth between yourself and Mr Lotto, I have a simple question - In Canada before they break dirt on a Condo. at least 80% of the Condo must be sold - do they have similar rules in Medellin? or does a construction company simply build on the hope that they will be able to sell them subsequently - the reason I ask is that the last time I was in Medellin (a few months back) there seemed to be a lot of cranes building apartment buildings.
This is really just a question for my education. Thanks.Excellent question and we all may get educated if some experts chip in on this one. Although my experience is primarily with existing housing and I do not like the 30% premium paid for new construction here is what I have observed so far in my meetings with developers here.
There are very few construction loans here, if any. So the developers need pre-sales in order to build. Their primary initial costs are the lot and architectural and engineering plans, permits as well as some marketing costs. The money they take is from pre-sales will vary from 30% down, to very little down to 100% down. They offer nice 5-20% discounts for cash buyers up front. Then the people who pre-buy make payments based upon 18-24 months of payments with a 20-30% baloon at the end. The initial cash down and the monthly payments are what pay the on-going construction costs. I have seen some projects 100% sold before they break ground. I do not know what the minimum number is but I would guess it may be similar to the Canadian number that you quoted, 80%. They have a formula and know what their minimum monthly construction costs are.
One other interesting development that I have seen is the some of the poorer areas, Stratus 2-3 barrios, have complained about no cranes in their neighborhoods. The governmnet has instituted a program where they pay 30% to assist buyers in those areas. Thus for instance a $24, 000 condo in Bello would cost $16, 000 which would open doors for many who previously could not afford to buy.
So I gues the answer to your question is the builders are not building on a hope and dream but are using OPM (other people's money) to build. As long as the people keep signing up and paying for pre-sales the cranes will keep working. If they don't we will be seeing fewer cranes.
Any expert opinions are appreciated. These are my observations but it is not my area of expertise.
So I gues the answer to your question is the builders are not building on a hope and dream but are using OPM (other people's money) to build. As long as the people keep signing up and paying for pre-sales the cranes will keep working. If they don't we will be seeing fewer cranes.
Any expert opinions are appreciated. These are my observations but it is not my area of expertise.Thank you Sir, that makes sense (the concept of using other people's money to build).
You hit pretty personal there, and as I know who you are I would tred lightly. If I insulted you or your bussniess I appologize. My intent is not to insult Medellin or bussniess owners, just stating a simple fact, supply and demand and that Colombia has alot of sharks out there. My facts are very stright, all I ever said was ample supply should decrease prices, which isn't occurring. The rest was my assumption and opinion and as I said before means nothing. As you seem to be some one who needs to make a living in Medellin I wish you luck, and understand your self intrest is personal, but I have enjoyed the argument and look forward to carrying one out in person if ever given the chance.I have enjoyed the debate and glad you were not offended. Hopefully it was entertaining and educational.
I understand your concerns for unsavory business practices. I have seen it from both the paisas and gringos here. But it happens everywhere in the world. As my dad once said "integrity is the only thing in the world they can't take away from you. Only you can give it away".
As far as supply and demand goes you may be right. Time will tell. All we can do is look for value in an existing market or take our chances and wait for lower prices. But many of the purchase decisons we are seeing are more about lifestyle choices than investment choices. How do you put a price on happiness?
Sorry if the humor was taken personally. You threw some pretty good shots too. I would be happy to continue discussion in person. Next time I see you at Le Bon the coffee is on me.
Sailor2006
09-29-08, 06:53
Why couldn't you just say that in the first place. The only person who gave me a decent answear was the aussie, and he spells tripled, trebbled.
"This market is very differnt from normal markets and does not follow normal trends" as the aussie has been in bussniess here longer and owns property and is soooooo much older then me, I can understand that answear. Colombia has alot of catching up to do, and is booming, building and prices will continue to rise, not decline so you are very right in your views on Medellin. What we disagree on is political, and economic which is opinion really. Just rember when you guys die, those of us still around will have to live in the market you helped created.
I have enjoyed the debate and glad you were not offended. Hopefully it was entertaining and educational.
I understand your concerns for unsavory business practices. I have seen it from both the paisas and gringos here. But it happens everywhere in the world. As my dad once said "integrity is the only thing in the world they can't take away from you. Only you can give it away".
As far as supply and demand goes you may be right. Time will tell. All we can do is look for value in an existing market or take our chances and wait for lower prices. But many of the purchase decisons we are seeing are more about lifestyle choices than investment choices. How do you put a price on happiness?
Sorry if the humor was taken personally. You threw some pretty good shots too. I would be happy to continue discussion in person. Next time I see you at Le Bon the coffee is on me.
Bango Cheito
10-01-08, 07:41
From my personal experience.
The construction company that built the complex where we elected to buy did NOT offer any discounts for cash on the barrel. It was the same price no matter how and when you paid it. Another company we were looking at did offer discounts, but we thought it was too damn expensive to begin with :P
They had to have a bank acting as fiduciary by law and we had to pass the bank's requirements, once again, even if we had 100% cash in hand, which is something to this day I understand.
I have NEVER heard of anybody buying property in Colombia with less than 30% down. 40 or even 50% is more like it actually in many cases.
Hi everyone,
I'm visiting Medellin this past Feb shopping for a property. I new an agency that rents apartements (american owned) and went to see their listings. I was reffered to a colombian real estate agent of which the owner of agency spoke highly of and I was assured that no price hike from this agent or known as (gringo prices).
Arriving at the thrid listing, there was the owner of the apartment living in the flat. So we spoke and one of my question naturally was how much and the price I was given by the owner of the apartment was 25 million pesos cheaper then what the agent had told me. I understand there is the commission but I also know that when the prices are published in real estate magazine, that's the price you pay. The magazines are free at your local Carrefour grocery stores!
Many of the listings I visited offered cash discount deals or when in person they were also very negotialble. I also met a beautiful colombiana at one of the sales offices and went out that night. Not only I found what I was shopping for, it came with the bonus too!
Hi everyone,
I'm visiting Medellin this past Feb shopping for a property. I new an agency that rents apartements (american owned) and went to see their listings. I was reffered to a colombian real estate agent of which the owner of agency spoke highly of and I was assured that no price hike from this agent or known as (gringo prices).One of the best sources of information is ro talk to local residents they will give you some very good ideas on real estate pricing. Another great source is newspapers. I usually avoid "american owned".
In my last visit in Feb.FY 09, I noticed alot of prices are slowly coming down. If you are thinking about buying, I would wait till after their president takes office, see how the country handles the changes. Uribe was great, but who knos what their next president will be like.
It is tempting not to buy property now since the U.S. Dollar is so strong. On the other hand I agree with Fla Fun 100% and wait to see what the 2009 has for Colombia and rest of us in the next 6-9 month. Hopefully the Dollar won't loose its peak by then!
Locals say Poblado is the best place to invest, and I've been hearing this since I came to know Medellin. With the new construction of the mega shopping mall Santa Fe and the other one that is from Bogotá (forgot the name of it), and no plans yet to expand the Avienda Poblado, I think it's going to be pretty hard to get in and out of Poblado. Most likely the Property value will appreciate from these new comers.
If Poblado becomes like Manhattan, how many of you would like to stay or live in Poblado? Where would you move to next? Just a question?
I bought a property 8 months ago when the dollar was 2000 to one at the mesa, Banks offical offer to buy my dollars when transfered. If I would buy my same apartment today at the 2500 to one I would save 17, 000 dollars and watch my equity rise when the dollar falls again. So if you're waiting for the right time, well here is you're chance. Also, don't shy away from American Owners when buying, they are more creative when it comes to the transfer of the price paid, they can accept money in the USA for example, keep the price lower on the Tax roles in Colombia, and generally offer advise from the experience they have had owning in Colombia. Don't expect Colombia to show decrease in prices like the USA, as stated they have a lot of catching up to do. Cash is always king and the second market is the best example of this, I bought 40 million below asking price due to quick sale and transfer of cash, Seek a good realtor to help you when you find a property, they will protect you're interest when buying, its easy to get into a bad deal with people coming out of the wood work who try and claim an interest in the sale proceedes.
Good realtor, Good Notary, Good Banker = Good buy!
I was looking at a place in BAQ. Their were many financing options but the one common thread was 30% to 40% downpayment. The interest and repayment period varied due to who was making the offer. Repayment periods ranged from 2 years to 15 years.
I realize I should probably RTFF but, what documentation is needed to make a purchase? And, does anyone know about Bank Davivienda? Thanks in advance.
Dapanz1
Frank Casio
06-23-09, 00:54
Hi guys,
Does anybody know how to transfer income into the States from the sale of real estate properties in Colombia without loosing your shirt ?
Since my properties here in Colombia are high in value and low in Tampa, FL I might want to sell some here and invest in Tampa, FL before they go up again overthere.
Frank Casio!
Frank Casio,
Exchange your pesos for dollars, and have trusted friends bring the $ back to the US 10, 000 at a time.
In Envigado, go to the Davivienda branch one block north of the park. The office building adjacent (north) of Davivienda houses about 7 currency exchanges businesses. Cambios Envigado, Troppical de Cambios, etc, etc. They give the best rates I have found.
Or exchange pesos for dollars with the mafia for an even better rate.
Good luck,
Taser
Legal Tender
06-25-09, 03:30
Frank Casio,
Exchange your pesos for dollars, and have trusted friends bring the $ back to the US 10, 000 at a time.
In Envigado, go to the Davivienda branch one block north of the park. The office building adjacent (north) of Davivienda houses about 7 currency exchanges businesses. Cambios Envigado, Troppical de Cambios, etc, etc. They give the best rates I have found.
Or exchange pesos for dollars with the mafia for an even better rate.
Good luck,
TaserTaser,
My friend, your advice while I am sure was given with only the best of energy, what you suggest is a felony. If you bring more than $10, 000 into the USA Without declaring it, or you purposely make multiple entries transporting a lesser amount to conceal or evade the statute, that's against the law. If you want to bet on currency instability, then do it on line. In a word, don't even thinking about. Shit, think about it (and you have)- add just one OVERT act and the elements of a criminal conspiracy are meet. Overt means any act in furtherance of the conspiracy. It is scary what can constitute an overt act. Do not, I repeat, do not even think about fucking with the feds. Low, low percentage.
Only good energy for you!
Structuring by having "trusted friends" carry amounts that individually would be less that 10,000 but in total are over 10,000; unclaimed over 10,000. In truth, over time you will get most of it back but you will pay a fine and lawyers to help you get it back and there goes the profits (if cought).
Taser,
My friend, your advice while I am sure was given with only the best of energy, what you suggest is a felony. If you bring more than $10, 000 into the USA Without declaring it, or you purposely make multiple entries transporting a lesser amount to conceal or evade the statute, that's against the law. If you want to bet on currency instability, then do it on line. In a word, don't even thinking about. Shit, think about it (and you have)- add just one OVERT act and the elements of a criminal conspiracy are meet. Overt means any act in furtherance of the conspiracy. It is scary what can constitute an overt act. Do not, I repeat, do not even think about fucking with the feds. Low, low percentage.
Only good energy for you!
Frank Casio
06-25-09, 18:56
Hi Legal Tender,
I don't want to do anything ilegal. Just want to know how much will I loose, let's say, if I sell a property for 200 million pesos in Colombia, to buy another property in Tampa, FL. Will they tax it as income received in that year or is there some kind of allowance for investing it in a property? If I'm going to loose a good chunk of the money, I'll just keep it here, no problema.
Thanks, Frank Casio!
Taser,
My friend, your advice while I am sure was given with only the best of energy, what you suggest is a felony. If you bring more than $10, 000 into the USA Without declaring it, or you purposely make multiple entries transporting a lesser amount to conceal or evade the statute, that's against the law. If you want to bet on currency instability, then do it on line. In a word, don't even thinking about. Shit, think about it (and you have)- add just one OVERT act and the elements of a criminal conspiracy are meet. Overt means any act in furtherance of the conspiracy. It is scary what can constitute an overt act. Do not, I repeat, do not even think about fucking with the feds. Low, low percentage.
Only good energy for you!
LocoGringo
06-25-09, 21:13
If possible do the transaction with someone that has an account in the USA. Unless you are talking millions of gringo $ that eliminates some of the transfer problems. I have bought and sold properties (4) that way.
Aussie Greg
06-26-09, 00:37
Did you fill out a FORM 4 when you transfered the money into Colombia and regester that with the Banco Republic ? as a foriegn investment?
Usually when thats happens, you can take the same money out tax free, but your profit is taxed something like 35%
Aussie G.
Hi Legal Tender,
I don't want to do anything ilegal. Just want to know how much will I loose, let's say, if I sell a property for 200 million pesos in Colombia, to buy another property in Tampa, FL. Will they tax it as income received in that year or is there some kind of allowance for investing it in a property? If I'm going to loose a good chunk of the money, I'll just keep it here, no problema.
Thanks, Frank Casio!
Hi Legal Tender,
I don't want to do anything ilegal. Just want to know how much will I loose, let's say, if I sell a property for 200 million pesos in Colombia, to buy another property in Tampa, FL. Will they tax it as income received in that year or is there some kind of allowance for investing it in a property? If I'm going to loose a good chunk of the money, I'll just keep it here, no problema.
Thanks, Frank Casio!I don't know how international transaction works but from my accounting knowledge(BBA in Acc), if you reinvest your gain from sales of real estate property used for business in another property exceeding certain percentage(i don't remember lol you should look up) , you don't owe tax if you make the purchase within six month. Again this is only case of transaction within US and your case is international transaction, which is only taught at advanced taxation class for MAcc(master degree)
I suggest you talk to your CPA or tax professional since tax law will be different in Colombia and you are resident there.
However, if you were to purchase real estate property in US that qualify as residency and sec 121 exclusion(2yr occupancy, 2yr ownership, min 2 yr frequency), you will owe 15% tax on the capital gain on that property after sales, given that it qualify as 1231 asset( long term, own over 12 months.)
Market value - sales transaction fee - depreciation - repair/addition -original purchase value = capital gain - 121 exclusion(250k) and you owe 15% tax on that (capital gain - 250k) ,if you don't purchase another property within 6month that is of greater value than capital gain for certain % of gain. It's been like effin 1.5yr since my last taxation class so I don't remember the %.
I don't know the answer, but you might look here:
http://www.amazon.com/Principal-residence-international-executives-Taxpayer/dp/B000985VIY
And look here:
http://www.rpifs.com/vkjcpa/foreign-residence.htm
and look here:
http://www.rpifs.com/vkjcpa/foreign-residence.htmyah this is exactly what i was talking about. it only expand on more on foreign property case which is in direct relationship to you frank. however, this article does not state the requirement to qualify at sec 121 for your residency. that gain of $250k as single or $500k as married couple to be taxfree only applies if you qualify your property as sec 121 property.
1. you owned the property for at least 2 years.
2. you lived in the property for at least 2 years.
3. you didn't claim this credit for at least 2 years.
hope this helps. i know all these tax law shit sounds hella confusing.
damn irs always have to make things more difficult than it can be.
Frank Casio
06-26-09, 22:48
Hi guy,
All this sounds very confusing, but I have actually thought about what I think you´re saying. Are you saying that I can transfer the money directly into the sellers account in the US ? And if so, what would be the cost associated with that ? and do you still have to declare to IRS or is it automatic ? Have you actually sold a property here and purchased in the USA with a direct transfer to sellers account?
Thanks again for all the help !
If possible do the transaction with someone that has an account in the USA. Unless you are talking millions of gringo $ that eliminates some of the transfer problems. I have bought and sold properties (4) that way.
Frank Casio
06-26-09, 23:11
hi guys,
that article on the web link from chesrep001 was awesome. it made it very clear that i don´t have any tax liabilities for up to a $250k profit. all i have to worry is about the exchange rate. i have to buy in tampa, fl when the $us is down or my $cop will be greatly affected. but is clear that the tax issue will not be a problem. thanks a million guys, i knew i could count on a world of knowledge and experience out there. isg guys are the best !
frank casio !
yah this is exactly what i was talking about. it only expand on more on foreign property case which is in direct relationship to you frank. however, this article does not state the requirement to qualify at sec 121 for your residency. that gain of $250k as single or $500k as married couple to be taxfree only applies if you qualify your property as sec 121 property.
1. you owned the property for at least 2 years.
2. you lived in the property for at least 2 years.
3. you didn't claim this credit for at least 2 years.
hope this helps. i know all these tax law shit sounds hella confusing.
damn irs always have to make things more difficult than it can be.
yah this is exactly what I was talking about. It only expand on more on foreign property case which is in direct relationship to you Frank. However, this article does not state the requirement to qualify at sec 121 for your residency. That gain of $250k as single or $500k as married couple to be taxfree only applies if you qualify your property as sec 121 property.Have recently been in this situation and gone through it. Don't see anything here that looks factually inaccurate. However, an accountant is essential for this process. Mine seems to think the 15% gains rate is certain to go up.- at the first political opportunity.
Aussie Greg
06-27-09, 08:59
FOR SALE
39% of Down Under Group S.A. that runs the Hotel Medellin Mansion and Hotel El Castillo, I'll pass the info onto the owner, regards.
Aussie Greg.
Hilltopper
06-27-09, 11:57
frank, no part of your property in question has been treated/reported (depreciated) as a rental property in the past on your u.s. tax returns? if so, the section 121 exclusion isn't available to that portion of the gain attributable to depreciation recapture.
but before you get to the u.s. taxation, you should ascertain the answers to:
is there an income tax assessed by colombia on the capitial gain from the sale of real property? is it a progressive tax rate if the the property is sold after less than 2-years from the date of acquisition, but only a flat 1% rate (withheld at the time of sale) on property held more than 2-years?
also, is there a vat or sales tax in colombia to worry about at the time of sale?
hi guys,
that article on the web link from chesrep001 was awesome. it made it very clear that i don´t have any tax liabilities for up to a $250k profit. all i have to worry is about the exchange rate. i have to buy in tampa, fl when the $us is down or my $cop will be greatly affected. but is clear that the tax issue will not be a problem. thanks a million guys, i knew i could count on a world of knowledge and experience out there. isg guys are the best !
frank casio !
hi guys,
that article on the web link from chesrep001 was awesome. it made it very clear that i don´t have any tax liabilities for up to a $250k profit. all i have to worry is about the exchange rate. i have to buy in tampa, fl when the $us is down or my $cop will be greatly affected. but is clear that the tax issue will not be a problem. thanks a million guys, i knew i could count on a world of knowledge and experience out there. isg guys are the best !
frank casio !not a problem! you are very welcome. i think thats what isg is all about! sharing useful info with friends that share common interest. women of all nations, colors, size!
Frank Casio
06-27-09, 21:59
Hi Hilltopper,
Thanks guy, in Colombia when you sell a property the price registered is not the one agreed upon, it's strange, but the local practice. For example, I purchased a property for 74 million as stated on the purchase agreement, but the final purchase price registerd by the "notary" was only 30 million. I'm assumming that if there is any question as to how much I sold the property for, the purchase contract should be good or cover me. I've never rented this house and it has been my personal residence for over 2 years.
Frank Casio!
Frank, no part of your property in question has been treated/reported (depreciated) as a rental property in the past on your U.S. tax returns? If so, the Section 121 exclusion isn't available to that portion of the gain attributable to depreciation recapture.
But before you get to the U.S. taxation, you should ascertain the answers to:
Is there an income tax assessed by Colombia on the capitial gain from the sale of real property? Is it a progressive tax rate if the the property is sold after less than 2-years from the date of acquisition, but only a flat 1% rate (withheld at the time of sale) on property held more than 2-years?
Also, is there a VAT or sales tax in Colombia to worry about at the time of sale?
Paisalov99
06-28-09, 17:24
I am looking to invest in some properties or business in Colombia, I also have few ideas that I am working on, I am looking for a wingman to venture into Colombia, like a business partner, if anyone interested in business ventures or joining me as a partner, or have already some businesses and looking for partners, please PM. Realestate or others, I am open.
LuckyEddie
06-29-09, 15:06
hi guys,
that article on the web link from chesrep001 was awesome. it made it very clear that i don´t have any tax liabilities for up to a $250k profit. all i have to worry is about the exchange rate. i have to buy in tampa, fl when the $us is down or my $cop will be greatly affected. but is clear that the tax issue will not be a problem. thanks a million guys, i knew i could count on a world of knowledge and experience out there. isg guys are the best !
frank casio !of course you won't have any problems with the us taxes tha everyone has provided information on - this because you won't be getting all that much out of colombia.
frank everyone here is offering advice and articles as to how you will be taxed in the us.
simply stated, in colombia if you did not file form4 and then 90 days later form11 you are subject to 46% on the entire sale of your property - not just the profit.
i'm suprised you don't know this. most importantly it is not up to colombian banks to educate you as most don't know about the policies and procedures of foreigners purchasing real estate.
now you can read the other articles and information provided to you by us here on isg.
LuckyEddie
06-29-09, 15:14
Hi Hilltopper,
Thanks guy, in Colombia when you sell a property the price registered is not the one agreed upon, it's strange, but the local practice. For example, I purchased a property for 74 million as stated on the purchase agreement, but the final purchase price registerd by the "notary" was only 30 million. I'm assumming that if there is any question as to how much I sold the property for, the purchase contract should be good or cover me. I've never rented this house and it has been my personal residence for over 2 years.
Frank Casio!Firstly the local practice is so that the seller pays very little in Capital gains if he get a sucker.
Not that that matters as you are wanting to repatriate the funds and without knowing about Froms 4 and 11 you will most likely be paying the 46% on the total wire out transaction.
Otherwise if you keep the money in Colombia, resident or non resident, you will only be paying the cap gains tax which is normal. In your case that might be from the registered 30 millones.
Frank Casio
06-29-09, 18:21
Hi Lucky Eddie,
I´ve bought and sold a number of properties here and I have never had to pay 46% of anything, what I have payed was very little, next to nothing!
Frank Casio!
Of course you won't have any problems with the US taxes tha everyone has provided information on - this because you won't be getting all that much out of Colombia.
Frank everyone here is offering advice and articles as to how you will be taxed in the US.
Simply stated, in Colombia if you did not file Form4 and then 90 days later Form11 you are subject to 46% on the entire sale of your property - not just the profit.
I'm suprised you don't know this. Most importantly it is NOT up to Colombian banks to educate you as most don't know about the policies and procedures of foreigners purchasing real estate.
Now you can read the other articles and information provided to you by us here on ISG.
Hilltopper
06-29-09, 20:52
I would agree with the below observation that your first hurdle/concern should be with the regulations/laws in Colombia that pertain to the tax on sale of residential real property and then the proper registration/filings in order to be able to repatriate the money from such sale back to the you. S without incurring any penalty.
Firstly, what little I've read about tax laws in Colombia talks about there being a 1% cap gains tax withheld from the sales proceeds at the time of sale on residential property owned more than 2 years. If the residential property is owned less than two years, then the gain is taxed at the more progressive ordinary income tax rates. The tax laws on the sale of residential property in Colombia don't sound overly complex or complicated.
Then there's the 2nd issue---getting the money back to the USA Without incurring a penalty. I can't remember the percentage, but the 46% penalty that Fast Eddie mentions sounds about right.
It is this second issue that appears to be most confusing and not easily understood and it is what I believe Fast Eddie astutely warns you about.
I've read that when you originally bought the property you should have filed Form 4 (you had to prove that is was "clean" money) and then registered the foreign investment within 60-days by filing Form 11 and attaching the property's ownership history and no-lien certificate. I've read that this registration is mandatory if you as the buyer want to exercise your foreign exchange rights to remit the money back to the USA When you resell the property.
I would presume that there is also some type of "outgoing" filing as well in order to exercise your foreing exchange rights so that you aren't subject to the penalty/fine.
It is the proper use and filing of Forms 4 and 11 that are of major importance to avoid a penalty/fine when repatriating the money back to the USA To be overtly clear, this is a total separate and distinct issue from that of income taxation.
In closing, I don't know squat about the laws in Colombia. But from what little I have read, I do know that if I were you I would engage a competent attorney/public accountant in Colombia to guide me through the maze to ensure that all filings were done properly and timely so that I did not run afoul of the money exchange rules and regulations that would subject me to that hefty 46% fine/penalty. It might take you a few interviews to find the right professional advisor in Colombia, but ultimately you will want to engage one who is very familiar with Forms 4 and 11 and the whole money exchange out process in Colombia.
Don't be penny wise and pound foolish. Engage a competent professional in Colombia who is experienced in assisting foreigners in repatriating the money received from the sale of real property.
Firstly the local practice is so that the seller pays very little in Capital gains if he get a sucker.
Not that that matters as you are wanting to repatriate the funds and without knowing about Froms 4 and 11 you will most likely be paying the 46% on the total wire out transaction.
Otherwise if you keep the money in Colombia, resident or non resident, you will only be paying the cap gains tax which is normal. In your case that might be from the registered 30 millones.
I am looking to invest in some properties or business in Colombia, I also have few ideas that I am working on, I am looking for a wingman to venture into Colombia, like a business partner, if anyone interested in business ventures or joining me as a partner, or have already some businesses and looking for partners, please PM. Realestate or others, I am open.I would suggestion waiting until after the next presidential election in Colombia before investing. If you want advice, talk to locals read the newspapers for news, read the real estate ads. Good luck and remember the economy. Real estate trends will most likey follow the US. As income decreases, prices start to go down.
Here in CTG. Have begun at new construction projects. Would like to become familiar properties that have already been contructed. Where do I start?
Aussie Greg
08-18-09, 21:00
Come and buy the Mansion and El Castillo properties, they are for sale. Also 39% of the business that runs the hotel's is for sale.
Aussie Greg.
I am looking to invest in some properties or business in Colombia, I also have few ideas that I am working on, I am looking for a wingman to venture into Colombia, like a business partner, if anyone interested in business ventures or joining me as a partner, or have already some businesses and looking for partners, please PM. Realestate or others, I am open.
Come and buy the Mansion and El Castillo properties, they are for sale. Also 39% of the business that runs the hotel's is for sale.
Aussie Greg.You mean their will be no more Mansion or El Castillo soon?
What will happean to future bookings?
Superboy
Aussie Greg
08-20-09, 14:17
All depends on alot of issues, it hast to sell first, both properties have been on the market for nearly 6 months (not properly marketed) and only have had one nibble so far for El Castillo, they were a long way off though.
As for future bookings, if the properties did sell, I think the partners in the running of the hotel's will find other properties to lease, they won't let there guests down and they also like to live in Medellin in the future.
So has anybody got a million dollars for the Mansion and $850,000 for El Castillo? I can put you in touch with the owner's lawyers.
Aussie Greg.
You mean their will be no more Mansion or El Castillo soon?
What will happean to future bookings?
Superboy
Paisalov99
09-27-09, 11:53
I am looking to invest in some business in Colombia, I also have few ideas that I am working on, I am looking for a wingman /investors to venture into Colombia, or a business partner, if anyone interested in business ventures or joining me as a partner, or have already some businesses and looking for partners, please PM. Realestate or others, I am open.
I still do not know how to get form 4 and 11 filled out. They have no Idea at bancolombia--any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mel
I still do not know how to get form 4 and 11 filled out. They have no Idea at bancolombia--any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
MelMel, what are those forms for?
Why don't you ask a local attorney?
Aussie Greg
10-10-09, 15:25
Medellin Mansion building for $1 Million USD and the El Castillo building for $900,000 USD and I'll through in 39% of the company that runs both hotels, might even be able to through in 78%.
Aussie Greg.
I am looking to invest in some business in Colombia, I also have few ideas that I am working on, I am looking for a wingman /investors to venture into Colombia, or a business partner, if anyone interested in business ventures or joining me as a partner, or have already some businesses and looking for partners, please PM. Realestate or others, I am open.
GringoLoco2
10-11-09, 11:10
Wow. Castillo was 850k a month ago and already 50k more in horrible economy. Good luck with that one.
Medellin Mansion building for $1 Million USD and the El Castillo building for $900,000 USD and I'll through in 39% of the company that runs both hotels, might even be able to through in 78%.
Aussie Greg.
LocoGringo
10-11-09, 22:25
Contact Citibank. I brought $ in 10x through Citibank in Cartagena. Any attorney knows the procedure also, if they are worth a shit, many aren't.
Bango Cheito
10-12-09, 06:39
I dug up some info on an accountant who specializes in international stuff...
Yamile Alvarado <yalvarad@yahoo.es>
Hope she can help you.
I still do not know how to get form 4 and 11 filled out. They have no Idea at bancolombia--any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mel
AddictedToWomen
10-12-09, 14:36
I dug up some info on an accountant who specializes in international stuff...
Yamile Alvarado <yalvarad@yahoo.es>
Hope she can help you.What are these forms for?
Aussie Greg
10-12-09, 17:22
Gone up with the slide in the Yanky dollar.
Aussie Greg.
Wow. Castillo was 850k a month ago and already 50k more in horrible economy. Good luck with that one.
Paisalov99
12-06-09, 03:15
Colombian chica dating site with goodl revenue and cash flow is offering shares for anywhere from $5K to $10K in initial investment, site has 5000 members and will be expanding to Brazil, Dominican and Panama soon, interested investors can contact me via IM
We have lots of properties that are for sale in Medellin Colombia, ranging from 700K USD to $1M USD, we also have many business for sale in Medellin. Interested in investments PM ME
Aussie Greg
04-07-10, 01:19
Would you like to list the Hotel Casa Blanc 1 "Medellin Mansion" and Hotel Casa Blanca Medellin 2 "El Castillo" properties
Casa Blanca 1 $1, 000, 000 USD
Casa Blanca 2 $900, 000 USD
The properties are leased to the company that runs the hotels "Hotel Casa Blanca Medellin"
39% of the business that runs "Hotel Casa Blanca Medellin" is for sale to.
Aussie Greg
We have lots of properties that are for sale in Medellin Colombia, ranging from 700K USD to $1M USD, we also have many business for sale in Medellin. Interested in investments PM ME
Paisalov99
06-01-10, 19:48
Hello Aussie,
What is the asking price for 39% of the business?
Would you like to list the Hotel Casa Blanc 1 "Medellin Mansion" and Hotel Casa Blanca Medellin 2 "El Castillo" properties
Casa Blanca 1 $1, 000, 000 USD
Casa Blanca 2 $900, 000 USD
The properties are leased to the company that runs the hotels "Hotel Casa Blanca Medellin"
39% of the business that runs "Hotel Casa Blanca Medellin" is for sale to.
Aussie Greg
Paisalov99
06-04-10, 03:58
If you are planning to move into Medellin or looking to rent out a place in Medellin , we have perfect place in Poblado, we can sublease the 3 bedroom unit for $800 USD a month plus $10K for the furniture, you can live in or rent out, great opporunity to generate rental income for daily or weekly rentals.
PM me
On another board, someone said that divorce laws are changing in Colombia to allow the exwife to take 50% of the assets, and the same for a cohabitating spouse after the 2 year mark.
Does anyone know if this is true? It would definitely affect the buying of property in Colombia!
Fellows,
I have not been to Medellin since Sep 08 and like to know how is the Real Estate Market there.
Any feed back would be appricieated.
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