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Member #3200

07-25-06, 16:27

I plan to come to Thailand & maybe Vietnam via Laos for 12-18 days in late Nov/early Dec & as a complete newbie to the post here in Thailand,i am a monger in Canada who travels to Cuba alot,there is tons on info i desperately need to know before i book my trip.
I will not bore you all with the 100s of guestions here,but it would be great if some of you reply to me in a PM some ideas i am going to know:for example,how much would i need which includes $1500 in airfare,very modest accomadations in bangkok,pattaya,phuket,laos & vietnam,food,some drinks & of course a woman or 2 per day.
Thank you in advance to all who PMs me.
For a solo newbie i love this site,but theres just way too much info for 1 man to read & get a unbiased opinion from member who have there preference towards certain bars & hotels,and have an endless supply of funds to play with.

Duniawala

07-25-06, 19:25

The Traveler

07-25-06, 21:03

Member #3200

07-25-06, 21:18

for someone from north america who might have 1 chance in his life 2 afford to experience a trip to the other side of the world,i miss 1 day online & i might miss 3 pages of info on bangkok,there's more 2 travelling for us here if going 2 thailand that it might be 2 the more experienced/wealthier & who live closer than some of us, it is not because i am lazy,there is just more involved when planning such a trip.
compared to doing homework on such places as cuba,dominican republic & or costa rica compared to thailand,thailand is a novel to read while those places are as simple as a poem 2 read.
if most of you this i should just RTFF then fine i will do so,i asked nicely & i see what the responses were & the kind of society we live in nowadays.

The Traveler

07-25-06, 21:35

Member #3200,

Traveler1234 gave you some good advice via PM how to start from scratch.

If you have any specific questions feel free to ask, you will get answers.
But don't expect us to write a complete "Thailand for Newbies" guide in response to a question like "what to do in LOS ?".
You must do your part of the trade.

I also kindly ask you to stick to Jackson's Posting Guidelines (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=156273&postcount=91), chat style is not allowed (reads quite ugly), being a senior you should know.

Thank you

Meaty

07-26-06, 03:40

...with all due respect, but I wonder what that RTFF advice is good for....

I totally agree, as you well know, RTFF these days means going through pages and pages of individual member flames/arguments/disagreements just to find a single post of actual info. Hardly time well spent.

SidTheSexist

07-26-06, 03:48

Theres always reports of distinction & FAQ

1Ball

07-26-06, 03:56

I totally agree, as you well know, RTFF these days means going through pages and pages of individual member flames/arguments/disagreements just to find a single post of actual info. Hardly time well spent.
Flames? Arguments? Disagreements? Where? when? how? by whom?
:D

Traveler1234

07-26-06, 05:28

This is not directed per se to Member # 3200 but to any newbie or senior member. I pm rather than posted a reply, per his request. It is quoted below along with his reply:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My PM
Re: Newbie

Originally Posted by Traveler1234
Welcome to LOS threads.

You may or may not get pm from others. From me, a polite RTFf. This site has probably the most information (except for possibly China but that's because China has more places).

Start with FAQ - it has all the essentials and is one of the few countries that has a good FAQ.

Then read a couple of the reports of distinction....by then you'll be an expert before even visiting.

Reason for this advice is because you don't tell us what you're into? There are MP, go go bars, FL, escort services, and literally tons of 'opportunities' for pussy. Probably the only place as concentrated in one area and easy in Asia is Indonesia, eg.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His reply
i wanna do all,but there is more 2 planning a trip than pussy-how much cash 2 bring along/what travller's cheques/malaria shots?/travelling within certain countries/personal security & other issues including accomodations--its a wide arrange of questions i am asking & looking 4 help--thats why i am doing it now-3 months b4 i book
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the FAQ answers most of his questions. So I leave it to each individual to draw his own conclusion re how we should reply to similar future 'queries'?

Brain Damaged

07-26-06, 09:30

This is not directed per se to Member # 3200 but to any newbie or senior member. I pm rather than posted a reply, per his request. It is quoted below along with his reply:

--Traveler's stuff deleted--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His reply
i wanna do all,but there is more 2 planning a trip than pussy-how much cash 2 bring along/what travller's cheques/malaria shots?/travelling within certain countries/personal security & other issues including accomodations--its a wide arrange of questions i am asking & looking 4 help--thats why i am doing it now-3 months b4 i book
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the FAQ answers most of his questions. So I leave it to each individual to draw his own conclusion re how we should reply to similar future 'queries'?

Two ideas popped into my head when I read the query: 1) the use of chat room style typing and 2) the nature of the query. Let me discuss my 2nd thought first. Regarding travel to Thailand, there are numerous travel sites that offer comments/suggestions about health, personal security, transportation, money, traveller's checks, cash etc. These range from Fodor's to Lonely Planet to the infrequent comment in Stickman. Thus, I would suggest that the noob either read the web or go to a knowledgable travel agent in his (I assume that the noob is a he) neighborhood. That thought was reinforced by the chatroom style of typing; my impression--based on albeit very limited data--is that the noob is lazy and wants people to give him a bunch of advice that he just doesn't want to look up on his own; he has admitted having three months to search for information.

Well. I suppose that I could suggest that he take only cash, pay THB8,000 LT at Thermae or Grace, get a room from Giotto for THB4,000/night, and try some of that
keng rot action that the girls are up on.

BTW--I'll be arriving LOS Tuesday for a week, staying over on Suk Soi 20. If anyone is up for a beer, PM me. I'll also stop by Giotto's to check out the rooms!

Duniawala

07-26-06, 15:19

Duni,

with all due respect, but I wonder what that RTFF advice is good for.
Nobody forces you or anybody else to reply to him. He politely asked for some advice via PM and I can't see anything wrong with it.

Also keep in mind that infos do change over the time.
Traveler
He may have asked politely, but that is the minimum one should do, ask politely. However, if he had RTFFed he would have some idea of wht to do and where to stay, and what kind of budget he should make. Now, if he has more questions, he should post those specific ones and we all would be glad to help a fellow mongerer out.

I also come from North America and when I went on my first trip, I RTFFed the long way (did not know how to use the search function), by reading the reports, and then asked my questions. In the old days when this was paranoia.com one really had to do research.

So my conclusion as others have come to see it, he is one lazy b*****d, with an gimme, gimme attitude who does not deserve any help.

Traveler1234

07-26-06, 15:33

Brain Damaged

07-26-06, 16:32

1Ball, The Traveler, Meaty, Duni and everyone else, including Member # 3200!

I'm as guilty as the next guy and sincerely apologize to all for wasting good bandwidth and space on this thread. It won't happen again here or elsewhere from me.

I noticed the level of flames/tension rising lately...maybe cuz it's summer months and most of us are stuck at home and not getting enough.

See what we ALL started...LOL.

So from now on when a silly and/or lazy query is posted:

1. if newbie, ignore it for others (i hope everyone else also just ignores it)
2. if from a senior member, put the lazy bxxxxx on my ignore list

Cheers

Well...for the benefit of the old(er) mongerers (e.g., Asian Gambler, Asian Rain, Old China Hand, Raz., etc.), I would most gladly offer suggestions (probably via PM) if the guy said:
1. Help! I've got a 24 hour layover in [pick a really good mongering city] and my plane
leaves in two hours.
2. What are the places to go to in that 24 hour period?
I thinkt that I would suggest a hotel and places to which the guy should go. These guys have been around, know the cost of different types of hotels and have an idea of how much they want to spend. They are asking simply to be pointed in the right direction.

I've done it myself, and have appreciated the feedback from fellow mongerers.

Then again, I've had to shave my tongue and use a bottle of Clear Eyes after such experiences!

Cheers,
BD

Jimbehr2000

07-27-06, 05:28

Phuquer

07-27-06, 11:41

An option to deal with newbie (or senior members) RTFF questions is to send them to a specific post that has the answers to most of the questions they might need. That is why I wrote the 5 nights itinerary (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=364994&postcount=328). I strongly suggest that somebody work on a document that answers most of the RTFF questions even better than the itinerary, and when somebody finally asks what we feel is a silly question that has been asked over and over again, we can refer them to that post. Unfortunately, we are going to come across members who are lazy, who are not computer savvy (don't know how to search, or even PM), who don't care to read rules, or whatever. I feel that it is wrong to ignore them because then they will feel excluded and they won't know why. You never know, perhaps one of these members might become a very productive poster in our group. I know when I started here, I didn't know squat. The thing that helped me was that I was so psyched about my first trip that I kept reading report after report, and that kept me from posting a newbie RTFF post. I am sure it would only take a couple of hours to research the document I propose, and another 1/2 hour to type it up. If anybody is interested in working on this, PM me and we can write it up. The more veterans that pitch in on this, the better and faster the document will be written up. Then we can point the RTFF posters to the document. Let me know what you all think about my idea.

Traveler1234

07-27-06, 12:18

Phuquer

In theory, what you suggest is a great idea. If one tries to go through the multiple threads, it would take forever. And someone in the Shanghai thread (david zzzz) actually did that, but just for Shanghai (and they still get numerous lazy queries).

However, as I tried to politely point out to Member # 3200 in my pm (again not singling him out per se), a hour or two reading the above two threads would be helpful.

I actually quickly went through the FAQ and RoD recently. The FAQ is 'old' but still provides a real roadmap to a newbie or senior re almost everything you need to know in terms of security, money, hotels, transport, where to go, etc. etc. It is one of the most comprehensive ones done on ISG. Some enterprising monger could update it if they had a few hours to spare......

And the RoD now totals 4 pages - and many of them are clearly marked by topic. for instance, there is your infamous 5 nights, the first RoD on the site that is great reading. There are specific ones written about MP, different parts of Thailand, buying land, how not to get burned, etc. etc. The list goes on. Since there are so many 'options' in LOS, a newbie could choose whatever turns him on.

Maybe a more practical suggetion is that for those who wish to reply to a newbie post - provide them with direct link to FAQ and a couple of representative RoD to start them off.

IMHO

PS: As a start, here's a summary for newbies of all types to start with:

Thailand FAQ: start here for basics
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement.php?f=253

Mike’s advice for Bkk newbie
http://internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=421417&postcount=20

Tiger’s take on the infamous Biergarten (Beergarden) soi7:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=477397#post477397

The venerable Giotto’s Lodge, aka Livingstones:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=478768&postcount=1235

And last for those less fortunate, how to negotiate:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=481463&postcount=892

If you find this useful, the tag/link to this post is
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=489724&postcount=516

Save it for future reference or just ignore my ramblings....

ThaiLearner

07-27-06, 13:11

Duniawala

07-27-06, 18:15

searches OK'd
By Declan McCullagh, CNET News.com
Published on ZDNet News: July 26, 2006, 5:06 PM PT
------------------------
"Police blotter" is a weekly CNET News.com report on the intersection of technology and the law.
------------------------
What: A business traveler protests the warrantless search and seizure of his laptop by Homeland Security at the U.S.-Canada border.
------------------------
When: 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rules on July 24.
------------------------
Outcome: Three-judge panel unanimously says that border police may conduct random searches of laptops without search warrants or probable cause. These searches can include seizing the laptop and subjecting it to extensive forensic analysis.
------------------------
What happened, according to court documents:

In January 2004, Stuart Romm traveled to Las Vegas to attend a training seminar for his new employer. Then, on Feb. 1, Romm continued the business trip by boarding a flight to Kelowna, British Columbia.

Romm was denied entry by the Canadian authorities because of his criminal history. When he returned to the Seattle-Tacoma airport, he was interviewed by two agents of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement division.

They asked to search his laptop, and Romm agreed. Agent Camille Sugrue would later testify that she used the "EnCase" software to do a forensic analysis of Romm's hard drive.

That analysis and a subsequent one found some 42 child pornography images, which had been present in the cache used by Romm's Web browser and then deleted. But because in most operating systems, only the directory entry is removed when a file is "deleted," the forensic analysis was able to recover the actual files.

During the trial, Romm's attorney asked that the evidence from the border search be suppressed. The trial judge disagreed. Romm was eventually sentenced to two concurrent terms of 10 and 15 years for knowingly receiving and knowingly possessing child pornography.

The 9th Circuit refused to overturn his conviction, ruling that American citizens effectively enjoy no right to privacy when stopped at the border.

"We hold first that the ICE's forensic analysis of Romm's laptop was permissible without probable cause or a warrant under the border search doctrine," wrote Judge Carlos Bea. Joining him in the decision were Judges David Thompson and Betty Fletcher.

Bea cited the 1985 case of U.S. v. Montoya de Hernandez, in which a woman arriving in Los Angeles from Columbia was detained. Police believed she had swallowed balloons filled with cocaine, even though the court said they had no "clear indication" of it and did not have probable cause to search her.

Nevertheless, the Supreme Court said police could rectally examine De Hernandez because it was a border crossing and, essentially, anything goes. (The rectal examination, by the way, did find 88 balloons filled with cocaine that had been smuggled in her alimentary canal.)

Justices William Brennan and Thurgood Marshall dissented. They said the situation De Hernandez experienced had "the hallmark of a police state."

"To be sure, the court today invokes precedent stating that neither probable cause nor a warrant ever have been required for border searches," Brennan wrote. "If this is the law as a general matter, I believe it is time that we re-examine its foundations."

But Brennan and Marshall were outvoted by their fellow justices, who ruled that the drug war trumped privacy, citing a "veritable national crisis in law enforcement caused by smuggling of illicit narcotics." Today their decision means that laptop-toting travelers should expect no privacy either.

As an aside, a report last year from a U.S.-based marijuana activist says U.S. border guards looked through her digital camera snapshots and likely browsed through her laptop's contents. A London-based correspondent for The Economist magazine once reported similar firsthand experiences, and a 1998 article in The New York Times described how British customs scan laptops for sexual material. Here are some tips on using encryption to protect your privacy.

Encryption Tips
http://www.politechbot.com/2005/05/10/technical-privacy-tips/

Opebo

07-27-06, 18:51

Like most mongers, I live in fear of police, crackdowns, religious NGOs, and the Forces of Social Control generally, but this is what will kill Thailand as a mongering destination - lack of population growth:

Thai population grows by 300,000 a year, but fewer babies
BANGKOK, July 16 (TNA) - A leading social research centre said Thailand's population has grown by 300,000 people during the past year, reaching 62.5 million at present.

Associate Professor Pattama Wawattanawong of the Institute of Population and Social Research at Mahidol University, who presented her study on Thailand's future population at a recent seminar on the topic, said the Thai population would increase to 65 million in the next 15 years before it declines due to the country's smaller birth rate.

The study, which the academic had jointly conducted with Professor Pramote Prasartkul, looked into the country's population growth during the next 30 years.

It said with a present birth rate of 0.6 per cent, Thailand's population has grown by 300,000 persons a year. It has predicted that the birth rate would regularly decline every year and would get to the same level as the death rate 15 years from now which would cause no change to the size of the country's population.

The study said after the year 2022, the population will begin to fall, as there will be a larger proportion of aging citizens compared to the population of infants. By then, the birth rate would gradually fall below zero percent.

The researchers said Thailand is producing fewer babies year by year, which will adversely affect the country's social and population structure in the long run when there would be more aging persons than in the younger work force.

Old people constituted 10 per cent of the population last year, and the number will increase to 25 per cent in the next 30 years--or about 16 million people--higher than the projected number of infants.

The study warned that such a foreseeable change would have an impact on the country's economic structure as there would be more older people than babies to look after which would cause some changes in the country's policies in education and health care.

The researchers also predicted that Thailand would have to import foreign workers in the future, as it would face a shortage of younger able-bodied workers.

They said the government needed to begin now to think of creating a welfare system to care for the country's growing older population in the future. (TNA)-E110

http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=23355

Phantomtiger2

07-27-06, 19:06

Phantomtiger2

07-27-06, 19:22

Don't answer. Disregard the post. I know sometimes you want to say rtff but today's newbie may be a valuable contributor down the road. Even if he asks a stupid question now. I don't mind reading hotel or massage questions that have been asked before. I appeciate getting updated info.

Let's not be too rough on new visitors. Just my .02.

Have to somewhat agree here as I am one that never refused any PMs/posts for info (whether from seniors or newbies). Its the cost of doing business for being a member of this forum. I sometimes think it will take me just as much time to type and flame someone than to answer. Not the reason why I dont flame as anyone here will tell you I'm not into flaming or putting anyone down. Not my style--I'll joke about someone but never flame. I get enough flaming on the job and at home so dont need to take it here.
Also agree with Phuquer and Jimbe that being a newbie is tough as not all are savy computer people.Also some other bro pointed out maybe 80% of threads dont contain real monger info. and not all have the time to read 1 year full of BS to find several post that they need.

Still, after a month or 2, newbies get use to forum and then not so bad but in the beginning--lets have a little patience and help out if we can. A small % of all newbies that survive to mongerhoodom here will be very active and fruitful members that may even remember you for your help and respond in kind with new and better knowledge and also offer for the rest of us members insight into details only they are able to perceive. Lets not forget that being a newbie here does not mean they are virgin mongers as I've found from newbies Ive help that some have monger elsewhere in the world for years and have offer help if I ever venture on their turf.
Sometimes its not all bad.--just my POV so peace to all.

PT

The Traveler

07-27-06, 20:42

... today's newbie may be a valuable contributor down the road...
jimbehr2000,

yep, exactly what I think.
We need some "fresh blood" in the forum. The majority of the posts originates from only a handful of senior members. Since those members aren't seeking for any info anymore they mainly post chit chat containing no info at all.

I also don't mind to see an already answered question being asked again. Info changes over the time, otherwise we could simply sample a huge FAQ and wouldn't need the forum at all. There are (almost) no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

The Traveler

07-27-06, 20:47

... who don't care to read rules...
Phuquer,

not necessarily don't care to read. Even senior members don't know/remember all the rules as T1234 just did. It's not allowed to post in blue, it's reserved for Jackson. And if you would ask me, I couldn't name all of the rules either.

They aren't that easy to find too, they can be found under "Proposed Site Improvements" even though one would expect to find them under "Comment On Site Rules".
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1515

Member #2041

07-28-06, 02:16

Thai population grows by 300,000 a year, but fewer babies
BANGKOK, July 16 (TNA) - A leading social research centre said Thailand's population has grown by 300,000 people during the past year, reaching 62.5 million at present.

Associate Professor Pattama Wawattanawong of the Institute of Population and Social Research at Mahidol University, who presented her study on Thailand's future population at a recent seminar on the topic, said the Thai population would increase to 65 million in the next 15 years before it declines due to the country's smaller birth rate.

Personally, I do my part - I enjoy having uncovered sex with as many Thai ladies as I can find who are certainly in their prime childbearing years. I do this whenever I am there, and I most definitely enjoy coming inside them. It's surely not my fault that they are not having babies.

Fox Two

07-28-06, 13:26

Outcome: Three-judge panel unanimously says that border police may conduct random searches of laptops without search warrants or probable cause. These searches can include seizing the laptop and subjecting it to extensive forensic analysis...
------------------------
Thanks Dun. Just wanted to add my two baht...

I use Portable Firefox in an on-the-fly encrypted flash drive. Truecrypt mounts a virtual drive that contains the Portable browser and all personal files. Once I'm finished browsing, I dismount the virtual drive and everything is securely encrypted in an innocent looking file on the flashdrive. It is possible to use software to figure out whether Truecrypt and Portable Firefox was run or not, but won't yield any information beyond that.

Truecrypt has many nifty (devious and sneaky) options to protect your data and best of all it's open source freeware. No ad/spyware.

http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable

http://www.truecrypt.org/

Cheers!

The Traveler

07-28-06, 20:46

Member #2041,

I hope you realize how stupid and dangerous your behaviour is. Have a look at the "Safe Sex" section if you don't know what I am talking about.

Member #2041

07-28-06, 22:23

Member #2041,

I hope you realize how stupid and dangerous your behaviour is. Have a look at the "Safe Sex" section if you don't know what I am talking about.

Sorry, I guess humor laden with irony doesn't always communicate itself clearly in the written word - especially online.

As an aside though, I might observe that trying to lecture an anonymous someone whom you have certainly never met and have no idea where they are coming from (nor they you), on the way that they may or may not choose to carry out their lives, over an internet forum dedicated to all manner of conduct that nearly everyone ourside of this little community finds immoral and inappropriate, certainly doesn't strike me as all that intelligent nor a very productive use of one's time.

The Traveler

07-28-06, 22:34

Member #2041,

I did not lecture you but hoped you realized that you would put yourself and others at danger by going bareback. So do you go bareback or not ?

If yes, I stick to what I have said.
If no, then there is nothing to talk about.

Member #2041

07-29-06, 04:07

I agree that there is nothing to talk about, but that has nothing to do with what I or anyone else does in my private behavior.

The Traveler

07-29-06, 16:56

Dinghy

07-29-06, 17:42

Member #2041,

Going bareback will increase the overall risk for the rest of us.

My thoughts exactly (of course, assuming you get checked and she gets checked...)

Member #2041

07-29-06, 18:32

Member #2041,

of course it's nobody else business what you do in your private life "AS LONG AS IT ONLY AFFECTS YOU !"

But in times of HIV - Syphilis, Hepatitis and other nasty deseases come to mind too - we must take responsibility for our actions and the effects it may have to others.

Sure, the girls have a choice, but they often don't know about the risks involved and even if, are often forced to comply with customers requests by their economical situation.

One of the following customers might be careful but have bad luck and condom breaks, bingo, next victim.

Going bareback will increase the overall risk for the rest of us.

Anyone who thinks one other person who publicly posts something on a public forum that they may or may not actually be doing actually affects their own risk probabilities, is, plain and simple, an imbecile.

You are in control of your own risks, and you need to act with the knowledge that it's a moot point what any one other hobbyist claims to be doing with pros. Whether or not I post what I am actually doing, or alternatively, that I might be consciously jerking around people who seem to think that my business is their business, you would have to be incredibly stupid to assume that a hundredfold of others are not still doing whatever they are doing, without posting it one way or the other with the same pros. If a pro allows me to go bareback, then it makes no difference whether or not I actually do, because surely, dozens of others will.

Anyone who participates in this hobby without the implicit knowledge that wherever possible, SOME hobbyists, and probably ALOT of hobbyists, are going unprotected, whenever the opportunity presents itself is in denial. And your own behaviour has to be determined based on that knowledge, or else you are sufferring from blatant stupidity. I don't know how to put this any more plainly. To believe that you might somehow diminish your own risk by lecturing an anonymous someone on a public forum whom you have no knowledge of what they are actually doing, might somehow improve your own risk factors (as opposed to how you conduct your own business impacting those risk factors) is nothing short of dillusional.

Giotto

07-29-06, 19:27

Anyone who thinks one other person who publicly posts something on a public forum that they may or may not actually be doing actually affects their own risk probabilities, is, plain and simple, an imbecile.

You are in control of your own risks, and you need to act with the knowledge that it's a moot point what any one other hobbyist claims to be doing with pros. Whether or not I post what I am actually doing, or alternatively, that I might be consciously jerking around people who seem to think that my business is their business, you would have to be incredibly stupid to assume that a hundredfold of others are not still doing whatever they are doing, without posting it one way or the other with the same pros. If a pro allows me to go bareback, then it makes no difference whether or not I actually do, because surely, dozens of others will.

Anyone who participates in this hobby without the implicit knowledge that wherever possible, SOME hobbyists, and probably ALOT of hobbyists, are going unprotected, whenever the opportunity presents itself is in denial. And your own behaviour has to be determined based on that knowledge, or else you are sufferring from blatant stupidity. I don't know how to put this any more plainly. To believe that you might somehow diminish your own risk by lecturing an anonymous someone on a public forum whom you have no knowledge of what they are actually doing, might somehow improve your own risk factors (as opposed to how you conduct your own business impacting those risk factors) is nothing short of dillusional.Member #2041,

On the spot. Good to read this issue to be thought to the very end.

Giotto

Member #2041

07-29-06, 19:41

And of course, none of you actually know whether or not I am going bareback. The fact is, I am completely cognizant of the issues involved.

Member #2041

07-29-06, 19:52

Anyone who actually believes that lecturing me about behavior that I might or might not actually be doing, but which I most assuredly already understand with respect to all of it's consequeces, somehow alters their own risks and in any way their own behavior and THOSE consequences is an idiot. I really have nothing more to add on this subject, as my prior post #532 really said it all. These discussions and the direction that they invariably take are utterly pointless, and THAT is my point.

1Ball

07-30-06, 00:14

2041, you are 100% correct, and it is a highly enjoyable read. Your cat and mouse game is amusing. You can be assured, however that there will be several more posts, claiming your foolhardiness for doing or not doing something which of course you know very well to be foolhardy

The Traveler

07-30-06, 08:37

You are in control of your own risks, and you need to act with the knowledge that it's a moot point what any one other hobbyist claims to be doing with pros. Whether or not I post what I am actually doing, or alternatively, that I might be consciously jerking around people who seem to think that my business is their business, you would have to be incredibly stupid to assume that a hundredfold of others are not still doing whatever they are doing, without posting it one way or the other with the same pros.

Anyone who participates in this hobby without the implicit knowledge that wherever possible, SOME hobbyists, and probably ALOT of hobbyists, are going unprotected, whenever the opportunity presents itself is in denial. And your own behaviour has to be determined based on that knowledge, or else you are sufferring from blatant stupidity. I don't know how to put this any more plainly.

Member #2041,

I totally agree with the above.

If a pro allows me to go bareback, then it makes no difference whether or not I actually do, because surely, dozens of others will.

You are completely wrong on that, you can make a difference !
Do you know the saying : "Save one man's life and you safe the whole world" ?

If everybody would think like you, nothing would matter anymore. Who knows, maybe you are the first one who goes bareback with her. Remember, someone has to be the first. You also said that nobody should act depending on other people's behaviour but now you use their behaviour as an argument to justify going bareback. This is inconsistent.

This way of thinking is the root for most evil in the world.

Anyone who thinks one other person who publicly posts something on a public forum that they may or may not actually be doing actually affects their own risk probabilities, is, plain and simple, an imbecile.

....

To believe that you might somehow diminish your own risk by lecturing an anonymous someone on a public forum whom you have no knowledge of what they are actually doing, might somehow improve your own risk factors (as opposed to how you conduct your own business impacting those risk factors) is nothing short of dillusional.

We can only refer to what you have said about your sexual behaviour. This sort of behaviour bears the potential for spreading diseases and a higher throughout disease rate will improve the overall risk for everybody partaking in this hobby.

I agree that everybody is responsible for his own behaviour and has to take in count that others are going bareback - never denied that or said otherwise - but it doesn't change the fact that the more people are going bareback the higher is the risk of getting infected yourself even when being careful. Condoms can break just like planes can crash.

But if you only post to post something, don't do as you say and don't say as you do, not meaning what you are saying, any discussion is indeed use- and senseless. But then your below posts are also nothing but empty words.

The Traveler

07-30-06, 08:54

Member #2041,

On the spot. Good to read this issue to be thought to the very end.

Giotto
Giotto,

even though I agree with most of what he has said, I dare to disagree, as he doesn't thinks it to the very end.

He completely denies the responsibility of those who actually are going bareback. Of course everybody is responsible for his own behaviour and has to take his own precautions regardless what he might think about other people's behaviour. But as already pointed out, those precautions can fail, condoms can break. Call it bad luck if you like. But if it happens your chances of catching HIV or any other disease will largely depend on the overall ratio of infected people. Having bad luck you will of course still be able to hit the jackpot.

He also denies the fact that many girls don't know about all risks involved and are often forced to comply with customers requests due to their economical situation. Many girls are still ill-informed about HIV and most have never heard of Syphilis, Hepatitis, Clamydia and other nasty stuff. Due to this the girls don't make their decision to agree on going bareback as the well informed and (hopefully) mature persons we are. This makes us mongers responsible for them and all who will follow in the chain.

And what about the partners of those who go bareback ? Read your own post regarding that issue http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=456182&postcount=577

In short : We all should be careful regardless our expectations and assumptions regarding other people's behaviour and we should condemn going bareback.

Giotto

07-30-06, 12:04

Giotto,

even though I agree with most of what he has said, I dare to disagree, as he doesn't thinks it to the very end.
...
And what about the partners of those who go bareback ? Read your own post regarding that issue http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=456182&postcount=577
...
Yes, The Traveler,

You are right, The Traveler, for sure and as always, and we all appreciate to be advised again.

For me and my personal understanding of the post of Member #2041 you are not even close to understand what he has written. But it is not up to me to explain that to you, may be Member #2041 will do.

If I read my own post which you thankworthy researched out of the stacks of old report I realize, that I also did not think that part of it to the end before - but yesterday, when reading the post from Member #2041 I learned something.

Today I would write that report slightly different.

Giotto

The Traveler

07-30-06, 12:36

Giotto,

I got his point, but you don't get mine.

He says far more than just be as careful as you can because others aren't careful. We agree on that.
He also says that it makes no difference if he would go bareback or not, because others do anyway.

Didn't we just agree that we all have to make our own decisions without depending or relying on our expectations and assumptions of other people's behaviour ?

We don't know about other people's behaviour and therefore we (possibly) can make a difference.

You are also not in complete control of your own risks - ok you are, you can decide to not partake in this hobby, but if you decide otherwise - there is still a residual risk you can't control no matter how careful you are. Even though this residual risk can never be eliminated, it could be dramatically decreased if everybody would refrain from going bareback.

In this context it doesn't matter if he actually goes bareback or not as long as he justifies going bareback by saying that it makes no difference, others will do too.

If you still think that I did not get it I would be glad if you could explain me what I have missed.

You are right, The Traveler, for sure and as always, and we all appreciate to be advised again.

This remark clearly shows that you aren't able to keep it a factual discussion.
Why can't you refrain from any personal attacks ? Remember your own analysis and stick to your own advice.
You again show exactly the sort of behaviour you are criticizing others for.

I realize, that I also did not think that part of it to the end before - but yesterday, when reading the post from Member #2041 I learned something.

Today I would write that report slightly different.

Member #2041 and I are only exchanging our points of view. They may differ, but I can't see anything wrong with it, that's the nature of discussions and why not agree to disagree. If you have a problem with discussions pers se you should ask Jackson to prohibit them in this forum. But I think you should rather be grateful, didn't you just admit that you have learned something as a result of this discussion ?

I also noticed that Member #2041 wording ("imbecile", "stupid", "blatant stupidity") indicates some sort of aggression, but ignored it. Wonder why someone who is able to express himself so eloquent needs to do that.

JuiceSpike

07-30-06, 13:09

Giotto

07-30-06, 15:02

the traveler,

speech is silver, but silence is golden.

giotto

Horatio

07-30-06, 15:36

I also noticed that Member #2041 wording ("imbecile", "stupid", "blatant stupidity") indicates some sort of aggression, but ignored it. Wonder why someone who is able to express himself so eloquent needs to do that.

Maybe he doesn't like you.

Member #2041

07-30-06, 19:07

If everybody would think like you, nothing would matter anymore. Who knows, maybe you are the first one who goes bareback with her.

LOL! This is one of the funniest statements I have seen on this forum.

You also said that nobody should act depending on other people's behaviour but now you use their behaviour as an argument to justify going bareback. This is inconsistent.

What makes you think that any of what I am posting has the slightest bit to do with my behavior? I have already stated that it's my private business, and for all you know, I'm simply playing Pavlov to your pooch.

My point was very specific - that if ANYONE actually uses the posts of other anonymous sorts on an internet forum that purport to describe their own practice or lack thereof of safe sex to make decisions about how they conduct their own business is an imbecile.

Member #2041

07-30-06, 19:22

You are also not in complete control of your own risks - ok you are, you can decide to not partake in this hobby, but if you decide otherwise - there is still a residual risk you can't control no matter how careful you are. Even though this residual risk can never be eliminated, it could be dramatically decreased if everybody would refrain from going bareback.

The point, of course, is that by lecturing someone's anonymous handle on an internet forum, you make a contribution to this goal which most certainly asymptotically approaches zero, hence, said lecture is utterly pointless, and in fact, the actions of anyone who is the slightest bit thoughtful would recognize that fact. And if you genuinely believe that such a contribution in any meaningful way alters your own course of behavior, you are a fool.

BTW Traveler, do you spend the rest of your time lecturing Grand Prix racecar drivers that they are endangering themselves, as well as the general public that chooses to attend a race, because they drive so fast?

And of course, the reason I bring up the last point is that this entire discussion up to know has dealt with risk and how to mitigate it. But of course, there is also varying reward that goes along with varying degrees of risk. Just as the aforementioned Grand Prix driver has, by driving fast enough to win, knowingly incurred additional risk, AND added a de minimus incremental risk to the general public at large through their behavior, they most certainly have done it because they perceive a greater reward opportunity at the end. And your assumption that they act because they do not appreciate the risk is entirely invalid - they probably fully well understand the incremental risk, and have judged for themself that the incremental reward justifies the taking of that added risk.

Member #2041

07-30-06, 19:32

The new airport is being tested and some speculate if it will work... It has to work and it will. juices

Hopefully, the airport itself will remain firmly on the ground, and only the planes coming in and going out will fly.

The Traveler

07-30-06, 19:46

Maybe he doesn't like you.
Horatio,

fat chance, that's an option I was already thinking about :D

The Traveler

07-30-06, 20:33

My point was very specific - that if ANYONE actually uses the posts of other anonymous sorts on an internet forum that purport to describe their own practice or lack thereof of safe sex to make decisions about how they conduct their own business is an imbecile.
Member #2041,

as I already said, we agree on that.

What makes you think that any of what I am posting has the slightest bit to do with my behavior? I have already stated that it's my private business, and for all you know, I'm simply playing Pavlov to your pooch.

In your first post you said you do, but I am well aware of your "cat and mouse game" as 1ball called it.

The point, of course, is that by lecturing someone's anonymous handle on an internet forum, you make a contribution to this goal which most certainly asymptotically approaches zero, hence, said lecture is utterly pointless, and in fact, the actions of anyone who is the slightest bit thoughtful would recognize that fact. And if you genuinely believe that such a contribution in any meaningful way alters your own course of behavior, you are a fool.

I never said that it will have an impact on my own behaviour. what makes you think like that ?

I am well aware that a post directed at an anonymous handle on an internet forum most likely won't have any effect on his behaviour, but opposite to you, I haven't give up hope that he may at least think about what I say.

People, who have already resigned and given up hope will never change anything. Therefore I keep trying even though it might be in vain. It's like bargaining, if you don't try, you won't get a lower price and it doesn't cost you anything, you can only win.

And of course, the reason I bring up the last point is that this entire discussion up to know has dealt with risk and how to mitigate it. But of course, there is also varying reward that goes along with varying degrees of risk. Just as the aforementioned Grand Prix driver has, by driving fast enough to win, knowingly incurred additional risk, AND added a de minimus incremental risk to the general public at large through their behavior, they most certainly have done it because they perceive a greater reward opportunity at the end. And your assumption that they act because they do not appreciate the risk is entirely invalid - they probably fully well understand the incremental risk, and have judged for themself that the incremental reward justifies the taking of that added risk.
I never made that assumption. I know very well that many people knowingly choose to take risks for their very own reasons. But isn't it selfish ?
Don't we have responsibilities ?

Member #2041

07-30-06, 20:46

But isn't it selfish ? Don't we have responsibilities ?

According to Adam Smith, self interest is what motivates the world.

The Traveler

07-30-06, 21:21

According to Adam Smith, self interest is what motivates the world.
True, but in nowadays world - at least in most parts of it - there are limits for that self interest for the good of all. Otherwise factories for example would pollute our environment even more, just to maximize their earnings.

Same applies here, knowingly spreading HIV e.g. is a crime and will be punished with imprisonment.
Do you remember the case of the one-legged German in LOS ? There also have been other cases throughout Europe and the USA.

Oldbuthappy

07-30-06, 22:37

The new airport is being tested and some speculate if it will work... It has to work and it will. It is a huge accomplishment for Thailand and the new airport is much needed...

From the Post:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/30Jul2006_news01.php

juicesJuice,

It seems that the URL no longer exists. So. for members info the new BKK airport (called Suvarnabhumi and pronounced Sawatapoon) will open on Sept. 29, 2006. Yes, I hope it is a great success and that its startup will be problem free.. especially since I will be flying into it from Koh Samui on it opening day

Member #2041

07-31-06, 00:16

True, but in nowadays world - at least in most parts of it - there are limits for that self interest for the good of all.

Just curious, who appointed you as the arbiter of those limits for all mongers? Certainly, there are other folks who would draw those boundaries at different points, such as engaging in any type of commercial sex whatsoever. And those folks might outnumber you. Certainly, I see no good reason that you should not acquiesce to their desire to control your behavior, any more than I ought acquiesce to your desire to control mine. That's why I take the position that it's not anyone else's position to try to impose their views on others. I do make sure that all of my activities are with fully consenting partners. And I don't bother to consult anyone else for their opinions about it.

I agree that knowingly spreading HIV is a form of assault and ought well be subject to criminal sanctions as such. But that's not what we are talking about, and it's an entirely irrelevant point.

JuiceSpike

07-31-06, 03:59

Oldbuthappy,

You ae right the link to the post article does not work. I went to their site and the article was gone, could not find it. I was going to copy and paste but it was a long article and did not want to take too much space.

The article talked about how the progress is coming along but many doubted it would be ready and safe as an operational airport by Sept. The article was somewhat critical of the operation and maybe they had to take it off...

juices

Meaty

07-31-06, 04:32

...The article was somewhat critical of the operation and maybe they had to take it off...
Surely not ? I thought Thailand was a democratic society enjoying freedom of the press :D

Fox Two

07-31-06, 09:14

Day 9 or so

Things have been going well the past several days. I’ve settled into a routine of waking up around noon, going downstairs for breakfast (sometimes with, sometimes without companion) and then checking my email. After that, it’s a trip to one of the nearby massage parlors. I’ve been to Aviva on Soi 8, Thonglor II on Soi 24, and Love Teen Massage on Soi 33. After that it’s back to Giotto’s for an evening meal and a game or two of pool with a few of his charming girls. Then it’s time for trip to NEP, Soi Cowboy or just hang out at one of the painter’s pubs on Soi 33 to look for some horizontal refreshment. Of course, I’ve sprinkled in some sightseeing around the area to keep some respectability with colleagues and relatives back home who aren’t aware of this particular hobby of mine.

In this post, I just wanted to focus on oily massages I’ve had here so far.

Aviva is a small massage place that is on a side street to the right, as you walk on Soi 8, going away from Sukhumvit. The rooms are small and the beds are low to the ground. There aren’t too many girls there, less than a dozen. The girl I was recommended wasn’t there, so I picked Lisa from the picture album. She was shorter than I expected (4’ and change) and a little chubbier than when her glamour picture was taken. She didn’t speak much English so I used some imaginative hand gestures and that worked well enough. Rather than give a blow by blow exposition, I’ll just say the massage was good. I almost fell asleep at certain relaxing points. The sex, on the other hand, was just fair, as she tended to be more passive and needed prompting. Damage was 600 to the house and I gave 1500 for the special service.

Thonglor II is another Oily place on Soi 24. It’s right by the Emporium and easy to find. It’s a classier place with a Japanese motif and soft music piped in throughout the building. I was asked for my shoes and issued a pair of slippers when I entered. I was then offered a drink and given an album to make my selection. A girl came out with a choice of lotions to sample and smell too. I thought it was a nice touch. They have a large selection of girls, but only about half were working there at the time I visited (around 4pm weekday afternoon). I was going to ask for Pu based on past reviews, but she was busy. Didn’t really see anyone I was interested in but I finally went with Umi. She looked a lot older than her album picture suggested and I almost thought I was a victim of a bait and switch, but she did have a nice athletic figure with a full, enhanced chest. Thinking I might get better action since she wasn’t all that attractive facially, I went for the 2 hour aromatherapy session for 1500 (kinda pricey in my book). This was the wrong choice, but I’ll address that later. As it turned out, the massage wasn’t all that great and the sex was just a mechanical release of tension. I enjoyed my session with Lisa at Aviva much more. Umi just wasn’t very cheery to start with and we didn’t really have any chemistry going during our “get to know you” chat. Wound up giving her 1500 and made as quick an exit as politely possible. In retrospect, I should have gone for a 1.5 hour trial session and upgraded later if things had gone better. Well, live and learn. I won’t be seeing Umi again.

Love Teen on Soi 33 is just up the street from Livingstone’s, same side. Here I had my best session to date in BKK. It’s not as well furnished as Thonglor II but the rooms are larger than Aviva. Love Teen has a “balls massage” specialty where the girls spend some extra time massaging your “meat and two veggies”. I went around 4pm on a Wednesday and there were about 15-18 girls that came out for a line up. I didn't see any stunners and thought the girls were about average to just above average. Fees were 600 to the house for a 1.5 hour session and 1500 to the girl, which I thought it was reasonable. I chose a slender girl named “Pookie”. She has shoulder length brown hair, nice smooth skin with small perky breasts. Things started a little slow, but she gradually opened up as we chatted. Her English wasn’t great, but again, imaginative hand gestures work quite well. Her technique wasn’t too bad and it was a fair massage. The balls massage part felt quite good though and I’d definitely recommend trying it. She used a combination of oils, fingers, palms and her chest to create a really enjoyable sensation. As the massage progressed, I started giving her a massage as well and she really responded to it. We went back and forth for quite a while. Then we started some DFK, licking, and before long sex became a natural part of the massage. Neither of us was watching the clock, and here in this case, that wasn’t quite a good thing. We were just starting to get into the main event when we realized we only had about 15 minutes left. We rushed through several positions but in the end I couldn’t finish. The more pressed for time I feel, the longer it takes for me to come. Just the way I am I guess. I don’t blame Pookie for any wrongdoing. We just had great chemistry, enjoyed massaging each other a bit too much and forgot about the time. Although I didn't come, overall I thought it was a fantastic session and I definitely plan to go back for at least 2 hours to finish the job properly.

I’ve had a few talks with several of the punters I’ve met while staying here and the general consensus is that the goal should not be about finding the right massage place. The goal should be about finding the right girl, at whatever place she may happen to be working.

More to come…

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for directions for posting a link to a specific report.

JuiceSpike

07-31-06, 14:05

Bangkok airport might not open on schedule
Beth Jinks
2006-07-31
BANGKOK'S long-delayed new airport may not be ready for its September 29 scheduled opening, the International Air Transport Association said on Saturday.

Suvarnabhumi International Airport mustn't take over from the existing Don Muang airport until "robust and comprehensive testing" ensures all systems are working, the group, which represents 260 airlines with 94 percent of world air traffic, said over the weekend, according to Bloomberg News.

"What is important is to have Suvarnabhumi Airport begin commercial operations only when it is operationally ready," the transport group said. The airport must consult airlines to agree on a "go or no-go decision for the opening date of the airport."

The opening of the 155 billion baht (US$4.1 billion) airport has been delayed three times from its official September 29, 2005, launch amid construction delays, cost overruns and corruption scandals. Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said the facility will take over all of the Thai capital's commercial air traffic in two months and replace the ageing Don Muang airfield, Asia's second-busiest airport.

On Saturday, Thaksin reiterated during his weekly national radio address that the airport will meet the opening deadline. He also boarded Thai Airways International Pcl's first test flight from Suvarnabhumi.

The state-controlled airline is the biggest of six Thai carriers enlisted to fly with passengers through the facility on Saturday to test the readiness of its runways and systems including baggage, passenger check-in, and security screening.

Trial flights undertaken on the weekend do "not test the airport's ability to handle heavy traffic," said Albert Tjoeng, IATA's Asia Pacific spokesman.

Thaksin has staked his reputation as a "chief executive" prime minister on progressing with projects including the Suvarnabhumi airport.

He faces an election in October in a country that has been without a functioning parliament since February, when he called a snap election after near-daily protests in Bangkok demanding his resignation. The April poll was widely boycotted and later annulled by a court, leading to a political stalemate.

Suvarnabhumi is already overdue. Don Muang was first used as an airfield in 1914 before being expanded into a commercial airport more than 60 years ago.

---------
juices

JuiceSpike

07-31-06, 14:08

AIRPORT SCANDAL
Inquiry into TAGS books urged by top Democrat

Questions raised over political links of ground services firm's shareholders

Veteran Democrat politician Kobsak Sabhavasu yesterday demanded the auditor-general probe the accounts of Thai Airport Ground Services (TAGS).

Kobsak's demand follows allegations that TAGS' new shareholders are nominees of a politically linked Thai interest group.

As the first commercial flights to Suvarnabhumi Airport touched down on Saturday, Kobsak revived claims about TAGS' allegedly dubious shareholding.

In December last year TAGS won the Suvarnabhumi Airport ground-services contract offered by Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT). There was no tender.

Questions over mysterious TAGS shareholdings remained unanswered, Kobsak said.

AoT owns 28.5 per cent of TAGS' shares.

AoT awarded a controversial 10-year contract to an obscure Singapore-based company that, through TAGS, would manage the new airport's 40,000-square-metre free zone logistics centre (FLC).

Kobsak claimed Singapore's Frobisher Pte Co Ltd was suspected of being a nominee of a politically linked Thai interest group.

Frobisher owns 48 per cent of TAGS' stock. The company's track record remains a mystery.

He said Frobisher had a registered capital of Bt2.4 million. The company identified its shareholders as a Singaporean lawyer, Thai investor Rawadi Jantawit and a trust fund.

Frobisher's accounts going back three years showed income in the first year of just Bt120. It increased to Bt200 in the second year.

"But media reports had Frobisher snapping up shares of British Airways and Lufthansa worth more than Bt200 million," Kobsak said.

Kobsak suspected large amounts of money were being spirited out of the country through TAGS. Evidence showed that before TAGS shares were purchased, TAGS spent Bt400 million to hire a consulting company for five months.

Consultant Detek was registered in the British Virgin Islands but its Singapore address was the same as that for Frobisher.

"We suspect the money was siphoned out of TAGS, which is not an ordinary private company but a company in which Thai state enterprises hold shares. The money was used to buy shares from the former shareholders. When a ghost company took up a major stake, it won the contract from AoT without having to bid,'' Kobsak said.

Relevant officials could not be reached yesterday for comment on Kobsak's allegations.

But, in December last year, Transport Minister Pongsak Ruktapongpisal dismissed the concerns.

He claimed no knowledge of Frobisher's shareholdings. But, its ownership was irrelevant as long as the company could do the job it was contracted to do, he said.

At that time an AoT source defended the decision to award TAGS the ground-services contract without holding a tender. The work was outsourcing, so bids were not necessary, the source said.

Kobsak yesterday called on Pongsak to take responsibility for allowing a ghost company to operate a business with a state enterprise.

The TAGS contract required reconsideration by the Cabinet, he said.

Kobsak questioned whether AoT knew about the Bt400 million TAGS spent hiring consultant Detek.

"The company meeting minutes for December 11 last year were altered. There was no report of the Bt400 million expense. But later that expense was detected in the accounts,'' Kobsak said.

Kobsak said the auditor-general had the authority to check TAGS' accounts because it was partly owned by Thai state enterprises.

-------
juices

The Traveler

07-31-06, 20:22

Just curious, who appointed you as the arbiter of those limits for all mongers? Certainly, there are other folks who would draw those boundaries at different points, such as engaging in any type of commercial sex whatsoever. And those folks might outnumber you. Certainly, I see no good reason that you should not acquiesce to their desire to control your behavior, any more than I ought acquiesce to your desire to control mine. That's why I take the position that it's not anyone else's position to try to impose their views on others. I do make sure that all of my activities are with fully consenting partners. And I don't bother to consult anyone else for their opinions about it.

I agree that knowingly spreading HIV is a form of assault and ought well be subject to criminal sanctions as such. But that's not what we are talking about, and it's an entirely irrelevant point.
Member #2041,

we weren't talking about self interest too, but you brought it forward to support your point of view and in my response I only pointed out that self-interest has it's limits set by the lawmakers. In other words, even the lawmakers say that we are responsible for our behaviour, which brings us back were we started off.

Our discussions started by you saying, that you enjoy going bareback. I responded, that we should refrain from doing so, as it will increase the overall risk for everybody partaking in this hobby and that we have to take responsibility for the possible consequences of our doing.

In this context it doesn't matter if you really do go bareback or not, it also doesn't matter if it's a personal matter or not and it also doesn't matter if anybody should make his decisions on his expectations and assumptions about other people's behaviour or not. So far all your objections and demurs were entirely irrelevant points as they were missing the spot, which is, that the overall risk will increase and that we have to take responsibility for our doing.

I also do not impose my views on others, as such would imply, that I have means to enforce them, which isn't the case. All I do is to point out to the consequences of such behaviour and hope that those who really engage in bareback sex might at least think about it and hopefully change their behaviour, even though it isn't very likely.

Furthermore I have no desire to control your behaviour, never said I have. I would like to see a change of it in case you really do go bareback, but I have no control about it. It seems that any criticism about anything that you consider as "private business" only causes your resistance instead of really thinking about that matter.

Due to this and the somehow emotional way you were responding to me, I assume that you indeed go bareback. In case this assumption is correct, I appeal to you to think about your behaviour, you may spread diseases and increase the overall infection ratio by it and many girls don't know about all the risks involved. Are you really ready to take responsibility for your doing ? Maybe one day you will find out that you have infected others with HIV and are therefore responsible for their suffering and death. All that just to maximize your fun.

Oosik1

07-31-06, 22:41

My intention is not to insert myself into this discussion between the two contributors, but only to add that it is satisfying to read Traveler's contributions in here, because they seem always to be reasonable and well considered by him. I, too, am quite nervous and jerky about the thought of going bareback with strangers, and it should be for them, too. Yes, it feels much better, but consider the guilt and fear you must deal with for months, years to come should you inherit some disease. One of three things will occur. 1.) Future sex WILL/SHOULD be done with a condom if you are infected, so then you'll have to forgo the full pleasure anyway. 2.) You will knowingly infect others. 3.) You will be forced to abstain. Use a condom.

Member #2041

07-31-06, 23:30

Actually Traveler, our discussions started with me making a sarcastic joke about liking to go bareback to help solve the baby shortage in Thailand, which you mistook for a factual statement about my behavior, and then also which you arrogantly took as an opportunity to preach to me about how I ought to conduct my own private business. At which point I decided that your opinions were more worth mocking than actually paying attention to.

The Traveler

07-31-06, 23:38

Member #2041,

joke or not, as I pointed out several times, it doesn't matter if you go bareback or not as long as you defend it as being a "personal business"
You also still avoid to answer those below mentioned questions.

OK, so you have made your point and I have made mine.
Let's agree to disagree and try to relax.
We are just talking here, exchanging opinions and arguments, no need to get personal.

Seems that we have again reached a point where one of the participants runs out of arguments and turns to flames. Therefore I guess it's better to stop here as your aggressions seem to take over and who needs another stupid fight ?

Why not also move into the "Safe Sex" thread to lecture MarcoStraight and Rubber Nursey that they should mind their own business instead of criticizing Johnson994 ? There is absolutely no difference between them and me.

Member #2041

08-01-06, 00:01

Member #2041, .... You also still avoid to answer those below mentioned questions.
As I said below, first of all, it's not any of your concern, and 2nd of all, I decided quite early in this discussion that your opinions and questions were much more worthy of mockery than a serious response. You've not given me any reason to alter that opinion.

I guess it's better to stop here as your aggressions seem to take over and who needs another stupid fight ?
We can only hope. I would add that that I don't believe tugging on marionette strings is an act of aggression.

Meaty

08-01-06, 03:00

The Traveller & Member #2401
DFTT (Don't Fuck This Thread) - Fight Club please children

Meaty

08-01-06, 03:03

Excellent report, full of info, nice one. Would be much better suited in the Massage Parlours thread though, wouldn't want the info to be missed.

Meaty

08-01-06, 08:09

The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) has questioned the readiness of Suvarnabhumi airport for its official opening on Sept 28.

The ICAO report, based on its information collected and observations made between last month and early this month, identifies 29 high-risk areas - or about one-third of the 93 items on its checklist.

Forty-three are rated as medium-risk and the rest low-risk.

It defines a high-risk item as one which "will most probably not be possible to resolve" before the opening date and could delay the opening plan.

Its report, sent to Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT), a copy of which was obtained by the Bangkok Post, was leaked to the press yesterday ahead of key landing and operation tests for local flights set for tomorrow .

However, Suvarnabhumi airport general manager Somchai Sawasdeepon and caretaker Deputy Transport Minister Chainant Charoensiri yesterday confirmed the readiness of tomorrow's tests when Thai Airways International, Bangkok Airways, Thai AirAsia, One-Two-Go Airlines, Nok Air, and PB Air will service 20 local flights in and out of the new international airport in Samut Prakan's Bang Phli district.

"Everything is ready [for the test flights]," Mr Somchai said.

AoT president Chotisak Asapaviriya refused to comment on the ICAO report, saying he had not seen it yet. Some people were trying to derail attempts to open the 155-billion-baht airport for commercial flights in September, he said.

The group's tactics included releasing false or fabricated information to serve their purpose, said the chief of AoT, an agency under the Transport Ministry overseeing international airports, including Suvarnabhumi.

Mr Somchai and Aviation Department chief Chaisak Angkasuwan said the ICAO report was an internal document used by airport officials to check on the progress of the project.

Both were confident that all problems identified by the United Nations-affiliated agency responsible for airport safety and security would be fixed in time for the official opening.

The report was made by the ICAO for AoT to check-list problems that need to be corrected, Mr Somchai said.

"It's like a warning for us to know which areas need to be improved.

"None of the listed problems are new.

"The report comes out every month for us to evaluate progress, and alert us to emergency issues," he said.

The airport agency also hired an independent firm, FAEZA, to double-check the readiness of all systems, said the Suvarnabhumi airport chief.

Outgoing Senator Chirmsak Pinthong said he was worried about the risks mentioned in the ICAO report, especially with landings taking place at the 155-billion-baht airport tomorrow.

He saw tomorrow's tests as events designed to boost the image of caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

He called on Mr Thaksin to take responsibility should any accident occur after all flight operations, both domestic and international, are moved from Don Muang to the new airport on Sept 28.

Among the high-risk items identified by the ICAO in its report are the "airfield visual aides" including taxiway, apron and airside road signs, lights and markings.

Failure to address them could lead to unsafe ground operations which "may contribute to an aircraft incident or accident", the report says.

Other identified risks outside the airport's terminal include a high antenna tower at the King Mongkut Institute of Technology's Lat Krabang campus which, the report says, could pose safety risks for planes approaching a runway, inadequate lighting for illuminating obstacles around the airport, insufficient safe areas at runway extremities, and the lack of an effective wildlife hazard control programme.

The institute's tower should be lowered and safe areas at runway ends expanded, according to the report.

Problems inside the building were identified as the baggage handling system and preparations for emergency situations, especially the fire alarm system.

Suvarnabhumi is being run under a temporary certificate issued by the Aviation Department.

It needs a permanent one approved by the ICAO for the Sept 28 opening.

FKKguide

08-01-06, 08:47

The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) has questioned the readiness of Suvarnabhumi airport for its official opening on Sept 28.

.........

Suvarnabhumi is being run under a temporary certificate issued by the Aviation Department.

It needs a permanent one approved by the ICAO for the Sept 28 opening.So what else is new? TIT (This is Thailand)! Mai pen rai (no big deal, who cares?)!

The new airport will open sooner or later and this will be good news for Pattaya mongers, cutting off at least one hour from driving time. BTW: There are buses running BKK-Patty on the nearby Bangna-Trat expressway like every 15-30 minutes and cost about ~50 THB.

Good riddance, Don Muang airport!

Asian John

08-02-06, 19:21

I've had an interesting couple of experiences I'd like to share and get some feedback. Twice in the last 2 months or so, I've encountered a RED condom at 2 different establishments in Chiang Mai. My sexy provider supplied a strawberry condom that I thought was kind of cool. At first. We started the deed, then as I withdrew my dick to slap it around some on her pussy, I noticed my hand was stained a bit red. Yup, she was on her period! The first time, I thought this was a one-time "woops" by my provider. However, yesterday, it happened again. She happened to supply me with another RED condom. She sat on me for awhile, then as I rotated up on top of her, I pulled out for a sec. Then as I reinserted myself, I noticed some red on my hand. Once again, she was on her period. It kind of freaks me out to see the blood for obvious reasons. I immediately got up and washed up. The girl was very apologetic, but then the RED condom has my suspicions.

Here's my suspicion -- Either they know they are very close to having their period so they use a RED condom as a "just in case" -- or, they know full well they are on their period and try to get a quickie in hoping I don't notice. Either way, they purposely use a RED condom for deception.

Anyone else have a similar experience?

SidTheSexist

08-03-06, 03:33

BTW: There are a/c VIP buses running BKK-Patty on the nearby Bangna-Trat expressway like every 15-30 minutes and cost about 50 THB.
Find this hard to believe. Can you expand? The public bus is more than 100bht nowadays.
cheers

FKKguide

08-03-06, 06:35

Find this hard to believe. Can you expand? The public bus is more than 100bht nowadays.

CheersThis is not the ferang sucker penalty and prices vary, also can be negotiated. Bang Pli is >1/3 the way to Patty. You might get an even cheaper fare on the rattly old public "rot-maes" w/o a/c that go all the way BKK to Jomtien Bch with many stops. It can be fun to mingle with the locals (many working girls).

FKKguide

08-03-06, 06:43

wednesday, august 2, 2006

english squire murdered, then burned

petchaburi (the nation): an english country squire was killed and his body burnt on a charcoal fire after he divorced his thai wife because of her gambling debts.

after being burned, the body of toby charnaud, 41, was then dismembered and parts rep001tered in kaeng krachan national park, a court in phetchaburi was told on monday.

charnaud had sold latimer farm near chippenham in wiltshire, after falling in love with a bargirl in bangkok. he went to live in hua hin, where he bought two bars to run with his new wife, pannada.

but after he took pannada home to visit his parents in britain, the marriage began to fall apart. charnaud eventually divorced pannada because of her gambling debts, giving her a 777,000-baht settlement. they shared custody of their five-year-old son.

in april last year pannada, 35, reported charnaud missing to police, but in court on monday she admitted she had lied; on march 27 last year she had in fact helped five relatives and friends from her home province of yasothon in the northeast to dispose of his body.

pannada denied premeditated murder and being an accomplice to murder but boontin puipong, sattri sripatum and nipit satabut admitted murder with provocation. they have said they were provoked because charnaud had interrupted them while they were drinking whisky.

pannada said, “i was at the market and returned home to find my ex-husband dead.”

all four were also charged with possessing a gun in a public place, deceiving police, and concealing the body.

two other defendants, somsak papai and wisan samaksri, denied all charges. their only involvement, they said, was that they moved charnaud’s car after the murder.

in britain, after charnaud was reported missing, his sister hannah allen and his parents, jeremy, 67, and sarah, 65, became suspicious. they hired a thailand-based scottish private detective, who checked mobile-phone records and discovered that toby had been at his ex-wife’s house on the day he supposedly disappeared.

when police raided the house, two of the defendants confessed and led police to where they had dumped the body parts.

toby charnaud had arrived to visit his five-year-old son daniel, phetchaburi provincial court was told. at first the relatives and friends of pannada tried to kill him with a long-barrelled hunting musket but it misfired. they then clubbed him to death with an iron bar and wooden staves.

they burned his body on a charcoal fire, using 20 kilograms of charcoal they had bought earlier in the day. they then cut up the charred body and distributing the parts around kaeng krachan national park on the thai-burma border.

the charnaud family’s lawyer, boonchu yensabai, who is jointly prosecuting the defendants said: “the only motive can be that pannada expected to inherit everything through their son. if she is acquitted of conspiracy to murder, we will appeal.”

in a letter to the court, mrs sarah charnaud said: “for me, his mother, one of the worst horrors of his death is the fact that the first attempt to kill him failed and he would have been aware of his murderers making their fatal attack. his fear and concern for his son would have been overwhelming.

“toby was a wonderful father to his son and it is so unfair that a small boy has been deprived of a great father and a father has been deprived of seeing his son grow up.

“ it is difficult to come to terms with the fact that this woman was behind the murder of the father of her child.

“i trust the court will judge fairly and also understand that i cannot be there to hear the defence downgrade the value of human life and to hear more details of my son’s horrific death.”

gentleman farmer toby charnaud predicted his own death in a short story competition organized by a magazine in bangkok, his sister hannah allen believes.

the story, entitled rainfall, is about a british man called guy who falls in love with a thai woman and whose life then falls apart.

she does not come home at nights. she builds up gambling debts. eventually he is murdered by his best thai friend, who – though guy does not know this – is one of his wife’s lovers.

the story won first prize.

said his mother, “the story is eerie. i am sure he had his suspicions.”

the case was adjourned until september 6.

SidTheSexist

08-03-06, 06:50

This is not the ferang sucker penalty.
Im still lost.

Meaty

08-03-06, 08:54

Im still lost.
Sid, i think FKKguide is trying to advise you to take an extremely slow, un air conned bus that stops at every little bus stop on the way, and probably arrives 4 hours after it leaves Bangna (as you know mate, i know Bangna very well). The only benefit of doing this, over the government run, air con coaches that stop outside central Bangna and Lotus Bangna every 20 minutes and take just over an hour to arrive in Pattaya would be the saving of about 50 baht on the ticket price.
Fellow mongers, the choice (whilst blatantly obvious) is all yours !

SidTheSexist

08-03-06, 10:14

Ive got it sussed meaty, no probs. FKK the sneaky devil has edited his post which clears everythingup. Go and check his original post and then check my post where I have quoted him.
FKK- Theres no problem, just i was a bit curious when you first posted "VIP a/c" busses every 15 mins for 50 bht. I know what you mean now tho. Still lost on "ferang sucker penalty", but never mind :D
Sid

Jayagopal50

08-03-06, 16:32

Can some vetrans throw light on problems i might face in thailand due to ethinicity.
I am US citizen of indian descent professional and have visted thailand with family and stayed Upscale but never mongered.I am passing through BKK and may have 2 or 3 nights transit.I read that there are problems for indians in BKK.Of course being used to prague and sanjose i know how to treat girls but looking at me one would assume I am from india and rightly so ,What to do ?skip BKK and go to PNHor yangon,

Thanks,

jayagopal50

The Traveler

08-03-06, 18:51

This is not the ferang sucker penalty and prices vary, also can be negotiated.

FKKguide,

what, prices for either bus - a/c VIP or non a/c "rot mae" - can be negotiated ?
Never heard of that. Prices are quoted and fixed to my knowledge, no way to negotiate.

Dinghy

08-03-06, 20:29

The "sucker penalty" is probably what the farang pay over and above what Thai pay for "similar" service (like the extra 50B for "eh" (Thai quick for "AC") )

Nothing quite like the milk run - pass everything on the road but a potential passenger - BEEP BEEP!!

Meaty

08-04-06, 06:55

i hope nobody minds, but i came across this article on prospect magazine, dated may 2005 and found it an interesting read, i hope others do to..
(jackson, its a very long article, if its too long, let me know and i will delete and post a link instead)

thailand generates fantasies, both for tourists in search of sex and for aid workers peddling lurid tales of trafficking. the tsunami created more false horror stories. what are the facts of the trade?

alex renton

january was ugly in our part of bangkok. we live near soi nana, off sukhumvit road, a famous tourist site catering for a specific sort of visitor: middle-aged western men. they come to nana for one reason—to have sex cheaply. november to january is high season in thailand for holidaymakers from northern nations, and the bars and pavements of nana are packed with hundreds of people buying and selling sex. january was busier than ever this year. it took a struggle every evening to get through the ranks of skinny thai women and the pale men in shorts picking them over.

it was the tsunami, of course. patong beach, one of the worst hit parts of phuket island, is among thailand's best known destinations for tourists seeking sex. so the men transferred their holidays to bangkok. happily for them, there was a drought in northeastern thailand at the end of 2004. the poor rice crop that resulted sent more young girls than usual down from their impoverished villages on the plains of isaan to harvest the tourists in the big city. this seasonal migration goes back, historians of the sex trade will tell you, to the vietnam war and the establishment of thailand as a brothel for american gis on leave. prostitution for foreign visitors developed into a major industry, although official thailand shrouds its economic and social significance in misinformation and a variety of interesting hypocrisies.

for a start, no one knows how many foreigners come to thailand every year to buy sex. many people have opinions on the matter—not least thailand's government, which understandably resists the label "brothel of the world." it has threatened to expel journalists who impugn the honour of thai womenfolk, and forced longman's dictionary to change its 1993 edition, the entry for bangkok which included the line "a place where there are a lot of prostitutes." thailand, in its turn, has been considerably abused by statisticians and ngos. claims that there are 2m or more prostitutes in the population of 64m, as was once stated in a time cover story, are absurd. this much-quoted figure was drawn from the statistics of the coalition against trafficking in women, an international ngo. if true, it would mean that one in four thai women between the ages of 15 and 29 in thailand was a prostitute. another anti-trafficking organisation, ecpat (end child prostitution, child pornography and trafficking of children for sexual purposes), claimed in the mid-1990s that there were up to 800,000 thai child prostitutes—a lunatic figure that still circulates in the us state department.

the trade in humans across the borders of southeast asia is a real and ugly story, but it continues to throw up incredible statistics—perhaps because it is an issue that generates large amounts of aid dollars. there are 21 un agencies and ngos based in bangkok which concern themselves with trafficking. the boxing day tsunami predictably generated a trafficking angle. within a few days, aid agencies led by unicef were issuing grim warnings of orphans being sold for adoption or the sex trade. the western media got particularly excited by the picture of an angelic nordic child, supposedly stolen from a thai hospital. this proved baseless, and there has yet to emerge a single credible example of a tsunami child, blond or brown, being sold. but the story has flourished in the global consciousness, leaving the few facts from which it seeded far behind.

the sex industry in thailand generates fantasies. there are the fantasies of pliant girls which draw the western sex tourists, and then there are the fantasies of lurid exploitation which draw the western moralisers and ngos. but what is the actual scale of prostitution in thailand? and how serious is the trafficking problem?

selling sex has been illegal in the kingdom since 1960, but longman's was right—there are a lot of prostitutes. ask most sensible analysts in thailand and you will be told that the number of women employed in prostitution, though a long way short of 2m, is between 150,000 and 220,000 (male prostitutes are a tiny fraction of that). you will also hear that western sex tourism is not economically significant, that most prostitution in thailand is for local men, and that most of the people who do come from abroad for sex are asian. there is some truth in this. sixty per cent of thailand's 10m visitors in 2003 were from elsewhere in east asia, and certainly the brothel-lined towns on thailand's malaysian border, and the entire streets in bangkok that are devoted to sex clubs for "japanese only," are evidence of the sex trade designed for the region.

but the proof is there—in pattaya, in phuket and on my own street in bangkok—that huge numbers of non-asian visitors buy sex in thailand. but how many? sex tourism is notoriously difficult to measure. how can you ask at immigration if tourists have arrived in thailand primarily for the prostitution? how do you know if a man on a business trip is likely to visit a sex venue with his thai colleagues? yet while the government, and the tourist and aviation industries, resist attempts to measure the significance of the sex trade, there is one way to gauge the extent of sex tourism, even if in fairly crude terms. a look at the thai immigration department's statistics, culled from the cards foreigners must fill in on entry, reveals an interesting discrepancy: 60 per cent of visitors are male and only 40 per cent female. the gap grows when you look at arrivals from the rich countries who come to thailand on holiday in large numbers—the us, japan, britain, france. for these places, nearly two males arrived for every female in 2003.

more british citizens visit thailand than those of any other non-asian country. in 2003 (the last year for which full figures are available) some 545,000 british residents arrived on visits. if you remove the children, and the british citizens visiting for business or reasons other than a holiday, you arrive at about 489,000—314,000 men and 175,000 women. that is 139,000 more british men than women coming to thailand for a holiday—a gap of 28 per cent. the french gender disparity—60,500 more men than women—is 32 per cent, about the same as that of visitors from the us. the japanese, at 35 per cent, is the highest—over 300,000 more men. if you take europe as a whole (though there are some countries, like finland and sweden, with virtually no disparity) the gap is 25 per cent—494,000 more men than women.

a look at the major rich-nation visitors—those from the us, australia, europe and japan—shows that 952,000 more men than women visited thailand on holiday in 2003, a disparity of 28 per cent. (the 2004 statistics, not yet complete, will show a slight narrowing of this gap, but a leap of overall numbers of around 20 per cent.) this pattern is unique among major tourist destinations. take, for example, the caribbean, another popular tropical destination for economy tourism. here, the disparity runs at 2 or 3 per cent—the only country with a significant gap in favour of men, nearly 11 per cent, is cuba, the caribbean country most notorious for sex tourism.

do nearly a million men from the rich world come to thailand to buy sex every year? the proposition deserves challenge. men are capable of holidaying for reasons other than fornication with strangers. there is golf, after all. i asked sasithara pichaichannarong, director general of the thai government's office of tourism development, how she accounted for the discrepancy. "businessmen!" she said promptly. "they're counted as tourists in the statistics." but i had factored them out—and in any case, only 31,000 britons stated business rather than holiday as the purpose of their visit in 2003, less than 6 per cent of the total. so did sex explain the extra 950,000 men that arrive from wealthy countries? "probably," she said. "but sex tourism exists everywhere, not just in thailand." not in such numbers, however. these extra men represent 10 per cent of all international arrivals in thailand.

so what are these men doing in thailand? i took the problem to john koldowski, managing director for strategic intelligence at the bangkok-based pacific asia travel association. he was understandably cagey: pata is funded by government, airlines and the hotel industry. but yes, he confirmed, the gender discrepancy is unusual for the global tourist destinations. so these extra men are coming here for sex? "it's that, or the golf," said koldowski.

and why so many brits? he thought that the backpacker tourists might account for the gap—young british males, following the traditional trail through southeast asia to see mates or relatives in australasia. but the average british arrival is aged 40, i pointed out. "backpacking is a state of mind, not an age thing," pronounced koldowski. that's an advertising slogan, not an explanation, i said.

he became tetchy. "look, if you are really researching the social factors of this, you should consider if men might come here because they're fed up with the ball-breaking females they have to deal with at home. maybe they want to meet the sort of gentle, beautiful, kind-hearted women they'll find here." this seemed to answer my question. the men are here for sex and, of course, golf. or both. female golf caddies who double as prostitutes are, anecdotally, one of the special features of the courses of thailand.

sex tourism is a significant part of thailand's economy. tourism overall has been the country's major foreign currency earner since 1982. in 2003, international tourism alone accounted for 309.26bn baht (£4.56bn) in receipts—about 6 per cent of gdp—ranking thailand 15th in the world. that year, the extra adult male holidaymakers from around the world probably generated almost £1bn—over 1 per cent of thailand's gdp.

but prostitution in thailand is much bigger than just the trade for tourists. there is no official measurement of the economics, but the clues are there. many thai men are habitual users of prostitutes, and the trade, while illegal, carries less stigma than in most countries and is acknowledged by the government as a source of revenue. in january, the thai excise department announced that it was going to seek a larger take in the so-called "sin tax" from massage parlours, a common brothel front. but thai tax collection is notoriously inefficient. a better indicator of the money around in the prostitution business came last year from chuwit kamolvisit, who was employing 2,000 prostitutes in six luxury massage parlours in bangkok (which he liked to refer to as "semen collection centres"). chuwit, the "tub tycoon," is an amusing rogue—"very un-thai," they say here—who in february 2005 became an opposition member of parliament with an anti-corruption agenda. during his campaign he opened his books to the press, revealing to a largely unsurprised nation that his monthly bill for bribes and payoffs to the bangkok authorities came to £160,000. separately, thailand's national economic and social advisory council (nesac) said that massage parlour owners pay £62m a year in police bribes. the income directly generated by prostitution was estimated at 100bn baht (£1.5bn) by the respected thai economist pasuk phongpaichit in a 1998 study. this is about a third of the value of the agriculture sector, which employs more people than any other in thailand.

westerners form an important—albeit not the major—part of this economic picture. a few have settled here because of it, calling themselves "sexpatriates." in towns like pattaya on the gulf of thailand, on phuket island and in the sex trade districts of bangkok, they run bars, hotels and brothels, mediating the transactions between male tourists and thai women. they are vocal on websites and in local publishing ventures, churning out guides for sex tourists. some of these men see themselves as exiles, refugees from the "feminazis" who are crushing the spirit of the western male. here, the old order of the sexes still reigns. women know their place, they wash your feet before they have sex with you, they say thank you and help you in the shower afterwards. and, of course, westerners' savings and pensions go a long way. beer is a dollar a bottle, and a woman for the night available for £10 or less. it's the "last place you can be a white man," says one bar-owning sexpat on his website.

their guidebooks picture a world of grasping, stupid peasant girls, known as "lbfms" (little brown fucking machines), out to entrap and rip off the honest, randy male visitor, who must treat them firmly and be sure to stamp out any nonsense for the sake of the next bloke who comes along. books like sex, lies & bar girls are available in mainstream shops, including at bangkok airport. they are full of robust advice on "scrogging" as many thai women in as short a time and for as little money as possible.

one of the self-justifications put forward by the sexpats is that the business makes everyone happy—the exploitation is two-way. it is not like normal prostitution, you hear. all the girls are smiling! ("all smile, all the time!" is an official tourism slogan). but you don't have to be a feminazi to see that the power relationship is grossly unbalanced. the real choices lie with the man with the wallet.

the famous thai smile hides a lot. the women of rural thailand who descend on the tourist areas are driven by poverty. around a third of the thai population lives on less than $2 a day; in the agricultural northeast, where farmers are beset by drought and collapsing prices (chiefly because of the dropping of trade barriers with china), one in six people lives on less than $1 a day. a high proportion of prostitutes—over 60 per cent, according to some surveys—have left children at home in the countryside. in traditional thai society, a girl's first duty is the support of her family. seventy-five per cent of prostitutes, according to one study, entered the trade after the failure of a relationship—"damaged goods" in a society that still puts a high premium on female virginity. another common reason given for entering prostitution is the pressure of family debts.

and the gains to be had are fabulous. the price of sex from a street prostitute in nana starts at perhaps 500 baht, a little over £7. that is a fortnight's living costs in the countryside, or half a week's salary for a thai police constable. there is little doubt that the sex trade is vital to the economy of the poor northeast, which is another of the well-rehearsed justifications of the sexpats. tales of bar girls who retire rich and happy to their home villages—some of them with a farang (foreign) husband—are many, and there is no social disgrace attached. "the land a girl child ploughs lies between her legs," goes a saying from rural thailand. but some women are broken in the process, and on my street, occasionally, you can see the damage that results.

still, there is a grain of truth in the sexpat argument. soi nana is not like the grim red light districts of london or new york, with their backdrop of organised crime, violence, and drug use. the only fight i have seen on nana was between drunken englishmen. amphetamines are widely used by the prostitutes, it is said, but not heroin. i have spotted one used syringe in the gutter in our four years here: there was worse to be seen nightly on the crack-infected street in west london where we used to live. most women soliciting rich-world foreigners are relatively free agents. their worst affliction appears to be the corrupt bangkok police. in thailand, the industry is not generally pimp-driven and, although technically illegal, its openness undoubtedly provides some protection for women. the sex tourist is more likely to visit a bar or a massage parlour than a traditional "closed" brothel (these appear to be more common for the domestic sex trade). ngos say that condom use is close to 100 per cent, and hiv infection has been in decline in thailand for a decade.

my family and i have become blasé about the street over the four years since we rented a house off nana. we used to stare, transfixed by the grotesque beauty and the beast scenes: slender girls being slobbered over by beery skinheads, the doddery grandfathers being escorted to hotels by tiny teenagers. but you come to realise these objections are chiefly aesthetic. the tourists, as opposed to the sexpats, are not so bad—often ignorant, yes, but lonely and innocent too. we have only once on our street seen a girl who was plainly ****. she was being bundled into a car by two western men—we tried to get the police to stop the vehicle but they were not interested. (of the 21 agencies and ngos working from bangkok on the trafficking problem, not one has managed to set up a 24-hour hotline where foreign visitors can report it actually happening.)

on my street you get snapshots of sadness—the look of a woman as she turns her face from her elderly male escort, her smile slipping to reveal what she is really thinking; the desperate patience of the older women, not pretty enough any longer to be attached to a bar, who must patiently wait in line under the glaring lights of the nana hotel sign. these can make you feel like crying for humanity, but, rationally, you must think, this is what globalised tourism and the laws of supply and demand will produce. what specifically should we object to? to stamp out the sex trade would cause enormous harm in a country that fails abjectly, despite its relative wealth, to provide for its poor. after four years, i find that the only aspect that can get me really heated about sex tourism in thailand is the hypocrisy, from both the trade's apologists and its enemies.

there is another sex-related industry in bangkok—run by those who survey and lobby, preach and analyse and argue endlessly with each other about how to stop or curb prostitution and [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908). there is a harvest here, too, for cultural anthropologists and social historians. the books on why people have sex in thailand line the bookshop shelves next to those on how to have sex in thailand. there are socioeconomists analysing the "incomplete dialectic between tourist and prostitute"; anthropologists on the foucaultian relationship between a thai prostitute and her body; social historians on the growth of the myth of the exotic orient, as promulgated by puccini, gauguin or the young british men who ran the trading posts of the east india company. there are, as pasuk phongpaichit points out, many people beyond the prostitutes themselves who make a living on the back of thailand's sex trade.

and there is one aspect about which everyone agrees something must be done: "trafficking," the sale of women and children into the sex trade. worrying about trafficking is another business, employing its own community of expats in bangkok, which is the southeast asian hub for many international ngos. thirteen un agencies and eight international ngos are involved in anti-trafficking work, so many that a further un body (uniap, the united nations inter-agency project on [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) in the greater mekong sub-region) was established in 2000, employing 18 people, to co-ordinate them and all the international ngos (save the children, oxfam and so on) which run programmes or policies on trafficking in the six countries through which the mekong river flows.

donors—particularly the us and british governments—throw millions of dollars at trafficking every year. spending on the issue has shot up during the bush administration—it was $50m in 2003—for which the trafficking of women and children for sex is an ideal target for foreign aid. "it fits the demands of an ideological morality that says that in essence all sex issues should be dealt with by abstinence. and it's about defenceless kids and teenagers," said one former unicef worker. another who was involved in the agency's anti-trafficking programmes in east asia told me that within unicef they are seen as "a great collecting bucket," a reliable method of raising funds that can then be spent on less donor-thrilling projects, like education or immunisation.

thus hardly a fortnight in bangkok goes by without another seminar, conference or children's forum, organised by uniap or others. in november, i dropped in on the "post-yokohama mid-term review of the east asia and pacific regional commitment and action plan against commercial sexual exploitation of children," held by unescap (un economic and social commission for asia and pacific), unicef and ecpat. this three-day meeting, attended by delegates from more than 20 countries, was to report on what had happened since the last such meeting three years earlier in yokohama. the only concrete development, it seemed, was the signing in burma a month earlier by ministers from cambodia, china, laos, thailand and vietnam of a "memorandum of understanding to co-ordinate action to prevent trafficking." this was being hailed as a big achievement. but it was also noted that "a lack of reliable data remains a major hindrance to the implementation of well-targeted and effective measures to stop the commercial sexual exploitation of children."

that is an understatement. everyone in the anti-trafficking industry is painfully aware that there is no real data at all. there are gruesome anecdotes and a few unimpressive figures for arrest and prosecution, but hard facts do not exist. you are told that each year many thai women are sold into the sex trade in japan, that they arrive thinking they are going to work as nannies or waitresses and find themselves saddled with "debts" of $25,000-45,000 and forced to work them off by yakuza gangsters in brothels known as "black jails." such was the report of human rights lobbyist kinsey dinan, published by the harvard asia centre in 2002. but that article, like so many others, made no attempt to attach numbers to the stories. dinan's "several-year long research project" with human rights watch merely says she "found that thousands of women from thailand were being trafficked into… japan each year." that is it. the truth is there are no useful statistics on this issue in japan, other than some on the female visa overstayers (10,000 from thailand in 2001). but the ngo lobbyists need better than that to tickle the donors. there are much more frightening ones around, and they are widely quoted: unicef's estimate, for example, that 1.2m children (meaning under-18 year olds) are trafficked every year, a third of them in asia.

at a recent anti-trafficking meeting of international ngos, i met a woman from oxfam india who told the meeting that in delhi alone [CodeWord913] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord913) was a business worth $1m a day. no one raised an eyebrow. another agency claims the child sex trade has a $7bn annual turnover in asia (a figure the us state department gives as the global value of the [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) trade). these numbers are endlessly parroted by lobbyists and journalists, and never, it seems, challenged. the trade in humans is an area where anyone seems pretty much able to say anything. david feingold, international co-ordinator on hiv and trafficking for unesco, analyses the statistics on these issues, but even he has not been able to get unicef to explain its figure of 1.2m children. "trafficking is a dangerous word," feingold says. "it stops the brain working."

if you ask the agencies how they get these figures, you get a weary response: "why are you journalists so obsessed with statistics?" at the post-yokohama mid-term review, i put the question to anupama rao singh, regional director of unicef for east asia. she replied that she understood the journalistic "compulsion" for figures, but added, "i must make one point: the trafficking of children for sexual exploitation is one of the worst and most abhorrent abuses, one that cannot be condoned, irrespective of the numbers!" for this, she earned a cheer from her colleagues. question the figures and you will be told you are helping the exploiters. a researcher i know who has worked in east europe and west africa on trafficking surveys for unicef and save the children says that the problem lies in the fact that the data everyone wants are near impossible to come by. "it's not like measuring hiv infections, or seeing if children have access to safe drinking water. how do you extrapolate from the anecdotes? how do you separate a woman whose uncle gave her a lift to the big city to help her find work from a woman whose uncle paid her mother money to be allowed to put her to work?" but the commissioners of reports demand hard statistics. "the pressure to fudge them is enormous."

feingold has a favourite example: the commonly used figure of 5-7,000 girls trafficked each year from nepal to india. "it dates from a 1986 ngos' seminar, when it was, i gather, a wild guess, and it was published in the times of india in 1989. it has been in use ever since." after we met, i searched for the terms "5,000-7,000 nepali girls" in google and got 110 results, most of them relevant and appearing in documents by eminent organisations, including the world bank and usaid. the most recent references to this 19-year-old "wild guess" were dated february 2005, and appeared in a unicef paper and on the website of the catholic aid agency aphd.

bad statistics have a habit of reproducing and mutating. "the us government," says feingold, "recently revised its figure of 700,000-2m people trafficked worldwide—a figure which no one could possibly know. on the state department website, this is now down to 600-800,000. then they say that 80 per cent of these are female and 50 per cent minors. how could anyone possibly know that? i've been given a private explanation of their methodology and it's ludicrous."

i asked anne horsley for statistics. she is project co-ordinator for the international organisation for migration, working on "long-term recovery and reintegration assistance to trafficked women and children." based in phnom penh, horsley seemed more hands-on than most trafficking lobbyists. cambodia to thailand is meant to be a big export route for women and children. there is migrant labour going, legally and illegally, across these borders in the hundreds of thousands. horsley, though, was also reluctant to be specific. her rehabilitation project dealt with "a few hundred" cambodian children each year, repatriated from thailand. some 25 per cent had had sexual experience, and two per cent said they had been involved in prostitution. if "a few hundred" were, say, 400, then 2 per cent would amount to eight under-18 year olds.

shortly after the tsunami, unicef started raising the spectre of orphans from the disaster being preyed upon and sold for sex, quoting "reports" of this having already happened. this was seized on by other agencies, and doubtless brought more money into appeal funds that were, as some organisations will admit, already subscribed beyond the organisations' ability to spend the cash. (privately, the agencies are staggered at the success of their appeals. one international ngo says it will take eight years to spend the money donated in the first month after the wave hit.) no one at unicef has come up with a credible example of a tsunami orphan being sold for sex—despite journalists' repeated requests. a british aid agency worker returning from the devastation in aceh said to me: "well, i heard that only one case of that actually having happened has been proved. but the good thing about that story is that it made the indonesians wake up to the fact that there could be a problem, and that their people needed training to look out for it."

the statistics are seductive: a powerful tool for raising money, but also, as in aceh, for embarrassing complacent governments whose women and children are demonstrably vulnerable. some shocking stats and opprobrium in the media have got the thai government to beef up its laws and policing, and in thailand, arrests on trafficking or child abuse charges have risen a little. in may 2004, thailand's autocratic prime minister thaksin shinawatra announced a "war on trafficking and prostitution," shortly after the international labour organisation (ilo) announced that 200-300,000 children were trafficked for sex into thailand annually (though it is hard to see how they would fit into an existing population of 200,000 prostitutes), and shortly before the us state department released a report putting thailand on its "watch list" of countries not working adequately to prevent [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908). special police squads now exist to track the trafficking gangs, which are said to number about 30 in thailand, and to have links to 70 or 80 in other countries; and in april 2005 a deputy prime minister was put in charge of a new [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) control board. but arrests and prosecutions remain few. in december 2004, in a report on one of the special 36-man anti-trafficking squads now patrolling 1,165km of the northern thai-burmese border, it was revealed that not a single arrest had been made, nor any victim rescued. in fact, in the first year of operation, on the entire burmese border only four arrests had been made and four suspected trafficking victims freed. many things can be deduced from this—not least the inefficiency of the thai police. but a worrying question remains: how can you stop the trafficking of children for sex if you cannot find out where or how or in what numbers they are being trafficked?

some of the agencies are beginning to admit that bad numbers can undermine their credibility. ecpat, the child prostitution agency, does impressive work at the "demand side," including the training of hotel staff in thailand to report on customers who may be using **** prostitutes. formerly one of the worst offenders with exaggerated numbers, ecpat now bases its statistics on figures provided by national governmental bodies, which are likely to be underestimates. in 2003, the ilo started a $10m, five-year project to combat trafficking in thailand and four neighbouring countries, largely funded by britain's department for international development. allan dow, communications officer for the project, partially disowns that ilo figure of 200-300,000 children trafficked into the region. "we've stopped using numbers now. we know the problem is serious: there's no point coming up with unreliable statistics. not having numbers doesn't mean we don't know what we're doing… but we have to admit that the current methodology for getting statistics doesn't work."

trafficking is a real problem and, though there is little prospect of it being measured accurately, circumstances suggest that it will grow. tourism into southeast asia is forecast to increase by 14 per cent a year. even after the tsunami, 13m people are expected to visit thailand during 2005, and the kingdom plans to push that to 20m by 2008, which would make it the world's seventh most popular destination, just after britain. and sex is demonstrably one of thailand's major tourist attractions. what must concern those who, like me, take a liberal view of the sex trade is that **** prostitution is an inevitable part of it. teenagers, research shows, are brought into the trade not principally because of the dedicated paedophiles we read so much about, but because youth is a valuable commodity. men like to buy sex with young women: the young poor are the most easily obtained for them.

a few in the anti-trafficking community admit they have to reassess their approach. amid the self-congratulation of the post-yokohama meeting, there was one note of caution sounded. vitit muntarbhorn, a law professor and former special rapporteur for the un secretary general on child prostitution and trafficking, told the meeting: "we've focused a lot on supply issues. it's time we placed as much focus on demand." the professor is a thai, but his own country is set, if anything, to increase the demand for prostitutes. "the thai government is committed to quality tourism," said sasithara pichaichannarong of the office of tourism development, "and that includes being anti-sex tourism." she gave no details of exactly what the kingdom is doing to oppose sex tourism—though if you tried to set up a sex tourism business today you would probably be discouraged. it was not always thus. in the 1980s, overt sex tourism flourished with considerable government encouragement. doctors were even asked to play down the threat of aids in order not to put off tourists.

quietly, though, thailand appears to have accepted its role as provider of sexual services to the rest of the planet. all that can be realistically asked is that it sets about doing it as cleanly and kindly as possible: that means tackling poverty in the rural north and corruption in the police force, as well as properly addressing the problem of the trafficked and the ****. the country would be aided in the latter by more honesty from the ngos who have been given so many millions of aid dollars to tackle these problems.

travelling to thailand for sex will continue. the brand is established. the beautiful young woman wrapped in silk with her demure but inviting smile is a feature of thai travel posters across the world. the promise is of "happiness on earth"—the delights of paradise just a cheap flight away. most of the traditional tourist attractions are disappearing. the country's beaches are overexploited, its forests shrinking and the islands poisoned by tourists' waste. but thailand and its neighbours retain one renewable resource for the tourists that is not in danger of running out—the supply of poor, smiling women.

Duniawala

08-04-06, 08:13

It was a very interesting read, Meaty. Can you provide a link, so I can send it to a few people I know. Thanks.

Meaty

08-04-06, 08:49

The link for the below report is http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=6889

But i came across it by being in here http://www.asianpicturesandvideos.com/ which has other interesting links to reads.

JuiceSpike

08-04-06, 16:51

Meaty,

Good article about the naughty industry... It might become their most lucrative market if investors continue to bail out of investing in Thailand. Just recently the PM was making an appeal to the Thai media to not portrait the country in a political chaos as it would hurt the country's image for investors. Meanwhile he is not doing anything meaningful to correct the political vacuum. Go figure...

juices

JuiceSpike

08-05-06, 15:30

Don Muang Airport to become market--partly

BANGKOK: -- When flight operations cease at Don Muang Aiprort, Thailand's Ministry of Commerce plans to convert at least a portion of Don Muang International Airport's existing departure areas into a central market after the new Suvarnabhumi International Airport is opened for commercial use on September 28, Deputy Commerce Minister Preecha Laohapongchana said Saturday.

The Don Muang Airport has two international terminals and one domestic terminal.

Departure areas are on the upper levels of the three terminals.

Arrivals are on the ground floor of the three terminals, while parking facilities are available for prospective shoppers.

A feasibility study has been conducted and will be soon given to Commerce Minister Somkid Jatusripitak, also a deputy prime minister, for his consideration before being submitted to the cabinet for a final approval, Mr. Preecha said.

The ministry plans to use 5,000 to 10,000 square metres of the airport's departure section for use as central market which will enable people to buy goods at fair prices, Mr. Preecha said.

Manufacturers will be allowed to display and sell their merchandises at the area, but their rights will be revoked if their goods are found to be overpriced or the quality is poor, he added.

--TNA 2006-08-05
--------------------
juices

Duniawala

08-08-06, 23:44

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thai cultural watchdogs have banned a line of condoms whose name translates as "Good Penetration," saying the suggestive label could draw youngsters into having sex earlier, newspapers reported Tuesday.

The condoms are actually named "Tom Dundee" after the stage name of a popular country singer, but Culture Ministry officials said this was inappropriate and offended good norms and culture, the Thai Rath tabloid said.

"Dundee" in Thai means "Good Penetration."

"Although the name is not vulgar or rude, it is ambiguous, boastful and provocative," said Ladda Tangsupachai of the Cultural Watch Center.

"It could entice excessive consumption and lure children and youths with little maturity to start having sexual activities before their appropriate age," she added.

Dundee, whose real name is Puntiva Poomiprates, defended lending his stage name to the condom brand.

He said he was merely following a government policy to promote safe sex in a country where over 500,000 people have HIV or AIDS, and indicators point to climbing infection rates among the young.

"You can't stop human desire, no matter how old they are, so it is better to protect them," Puntiva told Reuters, adding that he had been telling his audiences about the risks of AIDS and unwanted pregnancy for years.

In Thailand, condom producers have to seek approval from both the Health and Culture ministries.

Freeler

08-12-06, 11:46

hi,

this should make clear, once and for all, that tourists drive up prices, thanks:

>>>>>paradise lost

the [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) of samui
locals pay the price for rapid development as they were unprepared for the changes

story by anjira assavanonda

younger generations of samui residents have lost the chance to live in a beautiful natural environment with serene surroundings like their forebears, as uncontrolled tourism development has rapidly destroyed the island. — pattanapong hinrunard

in emerging as one of the country's top tourism destinations, koh samui has paid a high price.

gone are its serenity and lush green surroundings, the credentials that made the island much sought-after by holiday makers, both local and foreign.

buildings like hotels, resorts and real estate projects, have been mushrooming too quickly over the last decade. the coconut trees that once lined the island beaches have all vanished.

now that the beach-front areas are fully occupied and land developers are eyeing mountain land, concern is growing over the environmental impact.

"samui never had a development plan. we never thought the growth would be so fast and extreme, and local people were never prepared for the changes when tourism was being promoted. they never learned to manage their own resources. in the end, the power of money won, and we've seen the islanders lose their land to foreigners," said dr suvit nanthapanich, a retired physician who is a native of samui.

the two fully-developed areas are chaweng and lamai beaches on the eastern coast, which are renowned for their beautiful white sand. much of the area is occupied by foreign developers and the islanders have unknowingly lost their rights to the natural resources.

"so many hotels and resorts have occupied the areas, blocking much of the way to the beaches, which are public property. at chaweng and lamai beaches, for example, we have only one small public path each to get to the seashore," said an islander who declined to be named. with tourism booming on samui, the island these days attracts more high-end visitors than foreign backpackers. room rates have risen sharply from 700-800 baht per night a decade ago to 2,000 to 20,000 baht today.

statistics of the samui tourism promotion association show that about one million tourists visited the island last year, a 20% increase from 2004. there are currently 20-30 domestic flights a day to the island, monopolised by bangkok airways, and over 30 ferry trips operated daily by two companies, seatran travel and racha ferry.

traffic on the island has become a serious problem as well. the island's 53km-long main road is crammed with all kinds of vehicles - passenger cars, motorcycles, pick-ups and trucks ferrying construction materials that run all day. the rate of road accidents is high, particularly motorcycle-related cases.

"in the past, the road was so empty i could close my eyes and drive without hitting anyone, but today it's so busy. driving around the island today can take almost an hour," said senee phuwasetthavorn, president of the samui tourism promotion association. she said materially, samui has everything a major city would want to have - tapwater has reached even the remotest areas - convenience stores as well as megastores.

however, the islanders are not enjoying the fruits of urban development. local people are struggling hard to survive due to high commodity prices. population growth has also affected the quality of well water, a major water resource for locals, and made them more dependent on bottled drinking water.

food is also sold to locals at the same prices being offered to tourists. "the price of pork has risen from 36 baht a kilo in the past to 80-100 baht, rice to 300 baht per container. before, we could buy a fish in pieces, but today vendors prefer to sell the fish as a whole because it is regularly ordered by resorts and bungalows," said suchart ruangnam, an islander.

charges for the public pick-up truck services to get around the island have doubled in the past decade. there are meter-taxis on the island - which start at 50 baht, but drivers simply refuse to use them. a taxi trip covering half the island can cost as much as 300 baht, an unaffordable sum for the islanders.

there are four private hospitals with modern equipment and facilities on the island, but most of their customers are foreigners. most locals have no choice but to turn to the koh samui hospital for medical treatment, the only public hospital on the island, and which has only 11 doctors and 166 beds to cater to the 40,000 locals and another 100,000 migrant workers, mostly from the northeast.

dr poonsawat somboonpanya, the hospital director, said many doctors and health workers had quit their jobs because they could not afford the high commodity prices as the salaries they were receiving from the government were very low.

a large number of native islanders have sold their land and relocated to other nearby provinces such as chumphon and ranong.

"the close-knit community has been torn apart. in the past, we used to know each other so well, but things have changed with the influx of isan people. now we don't know who is who on the island," said 77-year-old fangpol boonliang, an islander and father of popular folk singer su boonliang.

"criminal and drug activities are also on the rise because youngsters have grown up unsupervised as we don't know whose children they are, and don't dare to interfere when they do something wrong. if they were the children of islanders, we would not have hesitated to inform their parents or grandparents what their children were up to, and that would have made a lot of difference," he said.

for an islander like dr suvit, it is painful to see how samui has changed for the worse. "it's like seeing our daughter being raped," he said.<<<<<

1Ball

08-12-06, 13:48

Freeler, I went to Samui in 1982. It was paradise. I have not gone since, and will never go again.

The Traveler

08-13-06, 23:52

Freeler,

true, tourism has a lot of negative sides and you can hear the very same argumentation at most tourist spots around the world but who sold the land to those hotel chains ? Many islanders made a fortune and got rich by selling their land at a price they would never got without tourism.

Alistair

08-16-06, 16:25

A very trusted friend of mine has proposed to me to open a bar in Pattaya, the money is not what you would call big money and he seems to have the “right” girls to place, my concern is: none of us will actually settle there (at least for the immediate future) and I wanted to know if anybody has tried this. Farang not there, the till is always open and we will have to assume that petty theft and rounding will be done on a daily basis. Nobody opens a bar with the purpose of getting rich, but still, waste money is not my aim either.

Does any of you run or know someone that runs a bar from their home country or would that be perceived to be a tad too naïve?

Now a rhetorical question: A comprehensive guide, website or other where I could get fully acquainted with all the laws, options, dos-and-donts of buying your own business in LOS?

Thanks

1Ball

08-16-06, 16:46

Alistair

08-16-06, 17:21

I know Stickman's website by heart, chapeau to him.
He does however say at some point that some make it happen, despite the odds.
Anyway, I am definitely aware of the riskiness of the situation and your advice was much appreciated, thanks.

Phantomtiger2

08-16-06, 17:49

Alistair, Stickman has some thoughts on that. You might have to search his site, but I remember reading about it.
or you could just send me the money you were going to invest, coz you'll never see it again. Not trying to be negative, but you don't have a prayer. You will lose it all. Dozend of guys have done this, and still lost their shirt, even though they were on site. You being gone...............
Do yourself a favor, and get that idea right out of your head!

Agree here.
Bars are hit or miss (mostly miss). Better chance of losing money than making any. Most will barely break even---meaning you'll be working for free (nothing to show for it).
I've been to many beer bars (patts and CM) and come back year later some will have changed hands already.

PT

The Traveler

08-16-06, 19:45

A very trusted friend of mine has proposed to me to open a bar in Pattaya,
Alistair,

seems he doesn't earn your trust. :(

Nutso

08-17-06, 03:04

Alistair - check out the publications section of Tilleke and Gibbons' web site. It has just about all the information you need on doing business in Thailand. http://www.tillekeandgibbins.com. In particular, check out the one titled Lex Mundi - Guide to Doing Business in Thailand.

Now a rhetorical question: A comprehensive guide, website or other where I could get fully acquainted with all the laws, options, dos-and-donts of buying your own business in LOS?

Thanks

Daring Mood

08-21-06, 11:02

Retired Army

08-21-06, 12:59

Easy... just go the the Erawan Shrine and stand on the street corner looking like a tourist. One of the helpful local citizens, probably a doctor, policeman, lawyer, etc., will be more than happy to recommend a shop owned by a relative or friend of theirs who just so happens to be having a special sale. They will even arrange transportation for you.

Dinghy

08-21-06, 16:07

POSTED ON PHILIPPINES, THAILAND, MALAYSIA, CAMBODIA, CHINA FORUMS

Guys
I want to buy a ring with one of the above precious stones (don't ask me why?).
In your travels can you advise which country / city in your experience offers best quality / prices?

TIA
Daring Mood

What do you want cut rocks or finished product? There are gem markets for ruby over near the Mayanmar border (Konchanaburi). If you go to Chantaburi (between Rayong and Trat), there is a gem market FRI, SAT and SUN (just ask at the bus station - they can tell you where - BUT I WARN YOU - you had better have more than a passing knowledge of gems before you try to buy in talad ploi (gem market) - synthetics abound. One more thing - not much action in Chantaburi - they seem to close up the town about 10 or so. Not much in Cambo - they mine sapphires in Paillin area - not much cutting activity (almost all there is cut in Thailand). Don't waste your time trying to find diamonds (ploi pet) - the availiability is in INDIA. So... IF you want a ring, just go find a nice store and buy it. (That part is easier than finding a chang tong IF you want to be serious about gemstones, the equipment cost will be in the $1000 range (just to get started - and that's as a NOVICE)

Member #2041

08-21-06, 17:28

Daring, Dinghy is correct. if you REALLY know what you are doing, and are qualified to examine the stones and know how to tell fakes or seriously flawed stones from good ones, the answer is Thailand. If, however, you do not have this expertise, I am willing to bet that you will get scammed. And Myanmar is even better still than any of the countries you listed. But again, it is purely a buyer-beware type of market, and buyers lacking in expertise in what they are buying will almost surely be conned.

BTW, the only stones that are best to purchase in Thailand and Myanmar are Rubies and Sapphires, as those stones mostly come from this region. Diamonds mostly come from Africa and India, and are traded in Belgium and Israel. Emeralds mostly come from Brazil and neighboring South American countries.

Of course, if you actually knew what you were doing to the degree necessary not to get ripped off, you would already know where these markets are, and not need to ask on an international hooker board.

Phantomtiger2

08-22-06, 00:31

Buying Gems in SEA are "buyers beware", bring along an expert or you WILL get cheated--either in price or in fake gems.
But, there is one large gem store in BKK thats run by the govt (the name escapes me but its near the Kings Palace-- and it garantees ALL gems to be real, but prices are not cheap(mainly because of the high govt taxes) except for one -two days a year that they offer all their gems tax free, then buying the gems are a bargain. The tax free days are usually in late Oct or early Nov.

PT

Daring Mood

08-22-06, 08:58

Thanks guys for all the extremely helpful comments and PMs, much appreciated

Member #2041 your point about this being an "international hooker board" is what?

Daring Mood

Dinghy

08-22-06, 18:12

2041 / PT - even WITH the knowledge(and the equipment) it's possible to get scammed.

Gems are "tricky" ... like some women. Sellers even more so. For "quantity" go to the talad ploi (Chantaburi is about the best and find a good broker as a middleman - they will watch out for you - "Pax and Na" seems pretty good). For "singles" go to a "good" jewelry store (avoid the World Gems on North Pattaya road - the store (not same owner but similar name) at corner of Beach and south is OK if a bit hi priced. Best gems just off Beach on Soi 6 is OK.

Beach road is good for the major pursuit in the forum as well...find some diamonds in the rough there frequently...

Member #2041

08-22-06, 19:10

Thanks guys for all the extremely helpful comments and PMs, much appreciated

Member #2041 your point about this being an "international hooker board" is what?

Daring Mood

The point was, if you want information about buying gemstones, this is not the place to find that expertise. This is the place to find expertise about scoring hookers in asia. I believe that in seeking advice on the purchase of gemstones in Asia on this forum, you are entering into a mission for which you are ill prepared, and ill-informed about how to become prepared. On the other hand, if you want advice on getting P4P companionship in various asian locales, then, you've come to the right place.

Traveler1234

08-22-06, 19:15

The point was, if you want information about buying gemstones, this is not the place to find that expertise. This is the place to find expertise about scoring hookers in asia. I believe that in seeking advice on the purchase of gemstones in Asia on this forum, you are entering into a mission for which you are ill prepared, and ill-informed about how to become prepared. On the other hand, if you want advice on getting P4P companionship in various asian locales, then, you've come to the right place.

What a silly place to ask such an important question - if the author is qualified to distinguish real vs. fake/artificial gems, he would also know the answer to his own question and not ask on ISG (not to say we don't have our own set of gems on this board).

LOL

PosterLion

08-27-06, 17:17

Thailand under a familiar glare - Sunday August 27, 2006

The arrest of John Karr has revived depictions of Bangkok in the international press as a place where even the most taboo of perversions is easily satisfied, but in fact a lot of progress has been made in shutting down the child sex market in Thailand, writes ERIKA FRY

The way "Purple" is going to spend his five-hour layover at Don Muang Airport was up for discussion at InternationalSexGuide.com earlier this week. By the end of an afternoon his ambitious plan to get to NEP (Nana Entertainment Plaza) and get a girl in five hours or less, has drawn a handful of comments and helpful hints, and been resoundingly rejected by the ISG online community.

He has underestimated the delays of Bangkok traffic and Thai immigration lines, chides one poster. He has not allotted time for currency exchange or the 15 minutes it takes the girl to get dressed, says another. One fellow suggests he save time and just arrange for a girl to be at the airport hotel.

But the matter isn't completely settled until Senior Member (32 previous posts) "Wolf"' breaks in with a post that says "Purple's" best bet is to skip NEP, skip the pre-arranged tryst at the airport hotel, and skip on up to an MP (massage parlour) on the second floor of Don Muang, where, with a wink and the shucking of his clothes, he can get a girl without even leaving the airport.

That these matters are known, that these matters are discussed, and that these matters command the energies and attention of at least five different individuals on a Tuesday afternoon says something about the nature of sex tourism and the sex tourist in Thailand.

The Thailand file folder on InternationalSexGuide.com is stuffed full with 40,000 such posts (twice that of the next most-commented-on sex destination, China, and 40x that of most other Asian countries).

Who has this kind of time?

Yet as sex websites go, this one is incredibly benign. There are no naked pictures, no comments trying to lure young children into sex. There are even rules, asking vaguely for "general politeness" and strictly for grammatical precision (standard capitalisation and full spelling of the word "you", a must). It is a comment board - a space for sex tourists to swap stories (some in tedious bar-by-bar detail) or simply share information on the best places to eat in Pattaya.

The monitor, a strict grammarian, but apparently not a strict linguist, calls the site somewhat redundantly, a "permanent archive of travel records."

That there is the kind of interest to maintain such an archive speaks to the more-notorious-than-ever zeal with which some regard Thailand as a destination (or as for "Purple", a destination between destinations) for sex.

Thailand has taken a lot of heat for this image in recent weeks. Ever since American JonBenet Ramsey murder suspect and paedophile, John Karr, was discovered to be living in Bangkok, foreign media has made much of why he had chosen to live in Bangkok.

In just several days, and in far more reports, Bangkok was branded a haven for sex tourists, and worse, a paradise for paedophiles.

2Bangkok.com, a locally run website, monitored the "bad news about Bangkok"and plucked and posted quotes from the worst of it. USA Today ran a story all about the "seamy side" of Thai tourism, Time held a quote from someone saying that "the way Wall Street is to finance - Bangkok is to paedophiles," and an Associated Press story, now inescapable on Google searches, is headlined with mention of "lax laws."

It did not help matters that Karr was a teacher here, nor that he had been previously hired by two elite Thai schools, nor that when he had been fired from one, it had been, for of all things, being too strict.

Little mercy was given for the fact that before Karr was arrested as a teacher and paedophile in Bangkok, he was a teacher and paedophile in America, Honduras, Korea and a handful of Western European countries.

That Karr was found here, in a city with a sex tourist reputation that often precedes itself, was enough to inspire reports that were unfair or uninformed in their dismissal of the past decade of progress the Thai government and a handful of NGOs have made in addressing the country's child sex tourism and prostitution problems.

These efforts have been aggressive and extensive, and while accurate statistics are impossible to gather, experts believe the number of children being sexually exploited and the number of sex tourists exploiting them has fallen.

INITIATIVES AND COMMITMENT

"There is a definite commitment," says Anthony Burnett, Information Officer with the Bangkok-based international NGO ECPAT (End Child Prostitution, Child Pornography and Trafficking of Children for Sexual Purposes).

"The situation has improved over the past 10 years because the government of Thailand initiated policies and legislation; introduced and made punishment for people who exploit children more severe, and strengthened protections for the rights of victims. At the same time...Thailand has moved the age for completion of secondary education to 15 years old, introduced education loans for students and vocational training for poor families, and is arresting and punishing tourists who offend."

He says the government is also working to set up a trafficking database and is engaged in an anti-trafficking programme with other countries in the Mekong Sub-region.

Among a long list of other initiatives are efforts to better train law enforcement personnel in handling child sex crimes, to improve information sharing with foreign law enforcement agencies, and to rebrand Thailand as an up-scale and family-friendly tourist destination.

The Ministry of Tourism is also working with ECPAT to develop an Anti-Trafficking Roadmap that will work to stop trafficking and prostitution as they relate to tourism.

Meanwhile, much of the world has woken up to the issue of child sex offences committed abroad, and in recent years a number of countries, including the US, Australia, Canada, and the UK, have developed laws to prosecute citizens that commit such crimes abroad.

To help implement and enforce these laws, foreign governments have begun placing agents overseas and in problem countries. Australia has around a dozen such agents placed in various locales in Thailand, the US has an active contingent working on Operation Predator within its Immigration and Customs Enforcement office, and a large number of other embassies have at least one officer assigned to child sex crime issues, says Luc Ferran, ECPAT's Programme Officer for Combatting Trafficking and Child Sex Tourism.

The US has convicted nearly 20 people (a handful for crimes in Thailand) under the 2003 PROTECT law, while Australia has prosecuted four under its version.

These laws have also become the basis of a deterrence campaign by NGOs like ECPAT and World Vision that have created in-flight advertisements and billboards declaring "Abuse a child in this country, go to jail in yours."

Even with all that has been done, Ferran says, "there is still a long way to go" to ending child sex tourism in Thailand.

And as evidenced by the spate of recent paedophile arrests, and in spite of in-flight advertisements, travel brochures, and cautionary posters hanging in hotels, foreign child sex offenders are still coming.

INFORMATION EXCHANGE NEEDED

It is relatively easy for paedophiles to travel to and through Asia undetected, living tourist visa to tourist visa and finding cheap sex to be had with children. It is also relatively easy, as further evidenced by the spate of recent arrests, for such offenders to come to Asia, find teaching jobs (with or without easily obtaining fake passports, teaching certificates and diplomas) and position themselves in a classroom with 50 children.

"There is a need for countries to exchange information regarding known child sex offenders," says Burnett. He mentions that currently no such information is available, making it impossible for authorities to know when an offender travels into their country. Few countries restrict the departure of offenders to another country, he adds.

This makes the region an attractive one to offenders, who in the West are publicly registered, closely tracked, and often ostracised.

While Southeast Asia promises relative anonymity for previous offenders, it also provides comradeship through the huge community of other sex tourists and sex offenders.

Plus, Thailand is warmer, cheaper and half a world away.

But the draws for Thai sex tourism are hardly new - the lid having been lifted off this Pandora's Box long ago, when the commercial sex trade was ushered in with American soldiers taking "R and R" in Pattaya.

It was not long after that Thailand's sex tourism turned into the big, sordid, and lucrative business that it is, involving knowingly and unknowingly - and in addition to brothels, bars, massage parlours and sex workers - hotels, restaurants, taxi services, and tourism companies.

It seems natural, particularly in a lesser-developed country like Thailand, that a commercial sex tourism industry would eventually beget a child sex tourism industry. Children or parents, seeing prostitution as a means of survival enlist themselves or their children.

Meanwhile, sex tourists making use of these trades are, in the nature of tourists, more likely to explore and less likely to discriminate in their sexual encounters. Burnett says child sex tourists are often not regular child sex offenders, but "situational abusers." In other words, these individuals are put in a place where they can, and so they will.

While Ferran says the correlation of the two vary country to country (Cambodia and Sri Lanka, he points out, have had strong child sex markets, while comparatively small adult ones), the existence of a commercial sex industry certainly has some implications on the existence of a child sex tourism industry.

Because of the aggressive efforts in the last decade to crack down on the problem, child sex tourism is not nearly the problem in Thailand that it once was. While it is still happens in places like Bangkok, Chiang Rai, the Patong district of Phuket, and most visibly in Pattaya, child sex tourists are more likely to go to Cambodia, Vietnam, the Philippines, or Indonesia, where law enforcement is less strong.

But while child sex tourists may be engaging in activity elsewhere, Ferran says they often use Bangkok as their hub. "There are always a lot of them arriving," he says. Thus, there is always a steady stream of child sex tourists coming, going, and circulating through the capital city.

FORCED UNDERGROUND

Children exploited in Thailand's commercial sex trade are often trafficking victims from Thailand's impoverished North (sold wittingly or unwittingly into prostitution) or from surrounding countries of Burma, Laos, Cambodia, and regions in China. Children in tribal and refugee communities are at special risk of becoming trafficking victims and child prostitutes because of their lack of citizenship rights, and the relative ease in which they can be exploited.

Other children, like those that Graham Tardif of the NGO, World Vision, works to rehabilitate, are street children that independently elect to work as prostitutes. These children will often mask their sex work by selling other items on the street, but will engage in activities when approached, he says.

Child sex tourists most often come from Western European countries and Australia, though there are an increasing number coming from Russia and East Asian countries, Burnett says.

Among the Asian tourists are "virgin seekers," or men, usually from China and Taiwan, that are less interested in having sex with children than they are in having unprotected sex with girls that they can be certain are STD-free. The practise is particularly common in Cambodia, though Ferran says it is also happening in Thailand's northern provinces and along the Cambodian border.

This experience almost invariably marks a girl's initiation into the sex trade, and while Ferran notes that the virgins are sometimes over 18, this is exceptional and in general the demand for virgins is leading to younger and younger prostitutes.

Even so, "In Thailand it is more difficult than before if you are looking for 12 or 13-year-olds," Ferran says. "Especially if you are coming in as a tourist without speaking the language, and not knowing the areas, it's not a given that you'll find places where a child is made available for sexual exploitation."

Tardif echoes this, saying that because of past years' brothel raids and the strengthening of Thai law enforcement, most of Thailand's child prostitution has been forced underground.

Instead, Ferran explains child sex crimes are more likely committed by resident foreign paedophiles, like Karr, that move here and are often employed in education or childcare.

More often than that, child sex crimes are committed by natural citizens. Burnett notes that it is a minority of the country's child sex crimes that are committed by foreigners.

Not that this, or the many measures Thailand has taken to rid itself of child sex tourists and child prostitution, is making its reputation as a child sex destination any easier to shake.

The coverage of the Karr case has left Thailand, however unfairly, in its aftermath, looking pretty ugly to much of the world.

What is doubly disappointing is this publicity (aside from that it was brought on by an American paedophile that Thailand never asked for) is that it perpetuates an image that Thailand has spent much of the last 10 years trying to undo.

While the government and NGOs will keep pressing on with those efforts, they will be getting help from the tourism industry as well. Encouraged by "The Code," an initiative developed by ECPAT and UNICEF to promote a socially responsible tourism industry, a number of hotels and tourism companies have begun to train employees and adopt policies to become child-safe organisations. Ferran says there have been 230 signatories of "The Code" thus far, and that he expects that such policy will become a standard incorporation into hotel ratings in a couple of years.

Ferran adds that he senses a shift in the way the tourism industry handles such issues, and its nature as a whole.

"The customer is not always right anymore," he says. "And that's a good thing."

This is the first part of a series on child sex crime and tourism.

Jimbehr2000

08-27-06, 18:33

This is the first part of a series on child sex crime and tourism.

Unfortunately the author implies an association between this site and child sex crime. I wish she would have dug a little deeper and noticed we are completely against any type of exploitation of children. We are not benign regarding this issue. We are 100%, cut their balls off, against this type of behavior.

P.S.
Hope Purple had a pleasant layover in BKK.

M P Lurker

08-27-06, 21:03

.....As it turned out, they checked me out, thought things were okay and brought out two girls. Neither girl was particularly attractive to me but I asked how much for the taller and skinnier of the two was. The guy in charge initially wanted 3000, I countered with 2000, and that got him down to 2700, which included barfine and the LT itself. Not much of a LT since it was already 4AM and told him so. We haggled some more, but I wasn’t really interested and more than a little on edge with 4 other guys standing around watching me. Eventually I just asked the cabbie to drive me back. As we left, one of the guys tried to get me to tip him for parking in the spot. I refused and asked him what he was talking about. I eyed the cabbie and the cabbie said something to this clown then waved him off. I asked the cabbie to drive me back to the hotel. At this point, I just wanted to get some rest and lay off hunting until I got some better advice from Giotto and other local fellow mongers.
More interesting encounters to follow…
....
Just a tip for newcomers to Thailand and other asian countries. Its not considered polite by the to bargain a price for something unless you actually want to buy. The reason isn't totally clear to me. "Fox Two" was O.K. because they never got the price he wanted. Fair enough. But once they agree to your price you are sort of expected to buy. If I was Fox Two, I probably wouldn't have risked showing any interest in the girls at all, regardless of how low the price was going to go, unless I had made up my mind that I wanted to buy.

Westerners are used to being able to ask the price with absolutely no intention of buying whatsoever. But asking the price in Thailand effectively implies that you want to buy. Otherwise why would you want to know the price? Some Thais will be annoyed if you don't make a counter offer to their price and continue bargaining.

Martians

08-28-06, 05:18

Ye guys/fellas/blokes are looking at the Karr story all wrong. If you break it down into its constituent parts, it is very lazy journalism.

Erika Fry needed an opener and something that showed she was on the ball. ISG was perfect for that and the fact that Purple's "odd" request got a few replies on a lazy afternoon was interesting. So far so good. The comment about admin being a strict grammarian was only a filler in the context of the story. It would have been much more useful, in the context of the story, to make a few local phone calls in Bangkok or to talk to people in the know. So, as regards ISG, all we have is a weak opening.

As regards Karr, well he was in the news, so no kudos there. But why not interview hoteliers, cops etc to get the lowdown? Why not phone up Nana, Grace and/or a cop contact or even go to Blooms where he stayed and get the scoop? Jesus, I could have given her the scoop for 5,000 baht. So far so weak.

Then she contacts ECPAT who are all over the Net, and UNICEF who are all over the world and place. That is very lazy journalism. Then World Vision get a major plug. Now, in the realm of arseholes, World Vision are the world's leaders. They have been given a lot of money (tens of millions) by George Bush to fight Aids in Africa and other places. But what they do is use that money to adopt kids to their fundamentalist brand of Christianity. THey are major scam artists and are known as such. World Vision should not be in that article at all as they have nothing to do with the issue. They are Johnny come latelys to it. Visit their web site which is a hard sell site.

Erika Fry could have phoned up the Bangkok Hilton to get facts and figures of foreign sex crimnals in jail. She could have phoned the Thai police to get facts and figures to see how many were arrested and/or deported for sex crimes. She could have done lots of things. Instead she did a very very lazy article. For shame Erika.

The article was cached here http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=500020&postcount=601 I am sure it will end up being cached in news sites as well.

The only difference it might make to this site is a few more hits. Also, Erika, by her own admission, confuses several things. She links this site in with other web sites and says this one is relatively benign. Then she should write an article about websites (but do some legwork). She then spouts on about sex tourism and Karr but does not develop her theme except to talk to wankers from NGOs with no credibility. Two or more issues confused into one weak article. For shame Erika.

It is like confusing Everton FC with the Queen's corgis. Both are important but have little to do with each other. For shame Erika.

(nice name by the way)

Priamos

08-28-06, 12:40

Martians,

I agree with you that the journalism may be lazy, but I think that behind it lurks a much bigger threat against this forum and our common hobby. The majority of "decent people" consider P4P as either a harmless vice, something regrettable-but-unavoidable or, at most, something that one should do something about one day - but not now. The feminists and abolitionists know this. So, to land deep blows on the hobby they link it with something much more sinister. The "prostitution equals slavery" position is an old friend. And now an even more insidious "sex tourism equals child abuse" postulate seems to be gaining momentum. Presumarly, by tarring the hobby with the same brush, they hope to get overseas solicitation prohibited too?

I strongly commend Jackson for having removed the controversial photos and made it clear that he will tolerate no ambiguity about this issue. Otherwise ISG and my fellow US-based hobbyists might soon find themselves in the midst of a nasty controversy.

Diyexplorer

09-03-06, 10:24

Callers to mobile phones now should start dialling "08", followed by the existing eight-digit number, as the new national numbering plan takes effect today.
Fixed-line telephone numbers remain the same.

For example, mobile phone numbers that start with "01" should be switched to an "081" prefix. The number (01) 234 5678 becomes (081) 234 5678.

Callers from abroad will have to add "8" after Thailand's "66" country code. For example, +668-1234 5678 would replace +66-1234 5678.

However, callers have until November 30 to get used to the new cellular dialling scheme. From December 1, only the 10-digit mobile-phone numbers will be valid.

All mobile-phone operators are now offering a free service at shops nationwide to convert numbers stored in handsets to the 10-digit format, regardless of the customer's service operator.

They will also send teams to busy shopping areas, such at Victory Monument and Silom as well as the offices of their customers to offer the conversion service.

Users also have to reconfigure the code of the short message function in their devices, which they can do by themselves or at operators' shops, to enable them to send and receive short messages. But they have a grace period until March 30.

Sigve Brekke, CEO of Total Access Communication (DTAC), said he would join more than 300 of his employees in spending the day in the Silom, Sathorn and Victory Monument areas to help people update their numbers.

The numbering plan aims to increase the total of phone numbers to 300 million from the present 90 million, which is expected to be enough to serve surging demand for 30 years.

Cellular-service providers have spent a combined Bt400 million upgrading their systems to comply with the new numbering plan.

The National Telecommunications Commission spent Bt30 million to publicise its new policy.

Reported in The Nation

Member #3409

09-04-06, 11:32

Diyexplorer,

Thank you for this very important information.

I do not understand when you say "only 10-digit" as you give
an example "+668-1234 5678" with 11-digit ??

His example is a little confusing isn't it. Just to clarify in what is called national format mobile numbers are 10 digit, inlcuding the leading 0. In full international format with country code, sans leading 0 it is 11 digit, Eg:

National 081 234 5678
Full International 66 81 234 5678

Landlines still remian as 9 digit in national format and 10 in international format.

Duniawala

09-06-06, 00:15

I know this is not a mongering question, however, it is a question for fellow mongerers who like to fish more than just thai pussy. Anyone fish at Bungsam Lan in BKK. You can PM me any info and not take up this valuable space. Many thanks.

Praise The Loard

09-06-06, 06:41

Just thought I'd check, though I think there no working Viet girl in Thailand, but maybe someone come across.

Phantomtiger2

09-06-06, 22:39

Just thought I'd check, though I think there no working Viet girl in Thailand, but maybe someone come across.

Thailand is a big country so dont know where in LOS you are referring to?
BKK do have some Viet gals as I've seen them(never many) in some of the MPs but not SW or FL.
Haven't come across any in Pattaya and CM--usually have Thai, Laos and cambo.
Better chance of finding Viets near the Cambodian border towns.
In general, if you are only looking for Viet gals, LOS is the wrong country for you.

PT

LittleBigMan

09-06-06, 22:59

Duniawala

09-07-06, 00:48

1Ball

09-07-06, 01:13

Retired Army

09-07-06, 08:19

Just thought I'd check, though I think there no working Viet girl in Thailand, but maybe someone come across.

I've met some in Galighers on Suk Soi 5

Tiger 888

09-07-06, 08:50

I've met some in Galighers on Suk Soi 5May I guess that you meant Gulliver's?

Retired Army

09-07-06, 09:30

May I guess that you meant Gulliver's?

Yes, Gulliver's. Galigher's is another place, but no Viet girls there. Thank you.

Piratepete

09-07-06, 10:36

Hello Priamus,

There are some very effective responses to the "prostitution is slavery" claim.

The first is a number of books released recently written by current or former prostitutes which show very clearly that they were not slaves, they made conscious decisions to get into the business, and they continued of their own free choice. Most became quite wealthy, if they did not get into the drugs system.

The second is that by definition, a slave is a person who has no choice, and receives no payment for their efforts. This is clearly not the reality.

However, when it comes to the slave trade industry, my response is "find them and hang them publicly". This has generally shut the protagonists up, because they are also against all forms of capital punishment.

Best wishes, keep at it,

Pirate Pete

Dinghy

09-07-06, 17:22

Pete you ignore the 2 sides of the coin - there IS slavery in some locations but in an "open" location, it's not likely - where the ladies can go off and about, it's a matter of "choice"

Phantomtiger2

09-07-06, 18:38

Hello Priamus,

The second is that by definition, a slave is a person who has no choice, and receives no payment for their efforts. This is clearly not the reality.

Pirate Pete

Yes, Slavery it does exist in LOS as I've seen it 1st hand. Was not looking for it so Not intentional as the tuk tuk took me to a small house just outside of BKK when I told him looking for *****houses . There were thuggy men at the door/gate with knives--thought I was going to be rob by them, but not the case. Walked me inside and there were no Fishbowl or lineup, walk me into each room (about 5-6 I think) and in each were young gals CHAINED to the bed--to prevent escape. It was depressing to see and really turned off by this so left (wasnt sure if they were still going to rob me on the way out as I didnt take a gal). I ask driver later if gals were allowed outside and he said some have not seen the outside for years!!!--yes , there is slavery in the modern world.

PT

Horatio

09-07-06, 21:44

Yes, Slavery it does exist in LOS ... and in each were young gals CHAINED to the bed--to prevent escape.... some have not seen the outside for years!!!--yes , there is slavery in the modern world.

PT

Did you do anything about this? Report it to the police or someone. Wouldnt the Thai police put a stop to this? I dont know. It sounds terrible. I would have a hard time seeing something like this and not trying to affect an end to it.

Regards Horatio

Phantomtiger2

09-07-06, 22:31

Did you do anything about this? Report it to the police or someone. Wouldnt the Thai police put a stop to this? I dont know. It sounds terrible. I would have a hard time seeing something like this and not trying to affect an end to it.

Regards Horatio

Can I do anything about this?---No, I couldnt even find the place if I tried.
Did this bother me to witness all this in person?--Yes, I'm not a heartless thug.
Will the police stop this?---No way, From what I had heard afterwards, the police is ALWAYS in on this. They all know about these places and are often paid "protection money=bribes" and use police resourses to track down and return girls that runs away.
Try to affect an end to it????----Like it or not, its part of the Thai society we will never see. I only accidentally saw one house but there are thousands of them all over Thailand as gals are often "sold" to sex slavers by their own family for money and drugs and many others are kidnapped, never to be seen again. We may find all this depressing but its all normal and accepted business for the local men as they use these houses all the time, They are the main and only customers.

It's the Dark Side of P4P.

Before you become a hero and "try to affect an end to this" in another country. Think about what you are asking as sex slavery exist in your own countries.--just pick up a newspaper and once in a while you'll read about so and so sex traffikers caught in so and so cities at home. We cant even clean up our own act, how can we possible clean up the rest of the world.

PT

LittleBigMan

09-08-06, 00:32

1-BAll,

sorry was only trying to clarify an answer! didn't think anyone would notice!

The Traveler

09-09-06, 09:46

Gentlemen,

Lets go a little further with the clarification if I'm in the U.S. and I've been calling a mobile number for example. 011-66-9-123-4567 is the new format now to be 011-66-89-123-4567?

Thanks,LBM
LBM,

absolutely correct, but the new numbers aren't in effect by today.
I am calling LOS on a daily basis and neither DTAC nor 1-2-call have changed to the new system so far. I assume they will do so in Nov.

The Traveler

09-09-06, 09:57

Petemcc

09-09-06, 10:25

Phantomtiger,

yes you can do anything about it. Please don't get me wrong, I don't blame you but you should have reported it to police, no matter what you think. It's correct that local police often collects bribes, but there are special units which try to crack down on it.

Maybe you should have tried to remember the name of the Soi, any street close by, a landmark or simply the licence plate of the tuk tuk that brought you there. If you don't dare to get involved, pass that info to me via PM. I have a couple of police friends, some are CID and they will do what is necessary to find the girls, free them and get those guys behind it.This whole thread is shocking. I think we on this forum consider ourselves as reasonable men who pay for consenting sex- or get it for free if you are that good. We should do anything and everything we can to stamp out sex slavery, ie we should report it. If there are no trusted sources, use this forum, as we have already seen, there are people here with contacts. Well done for highlighting it, and let's get these scum bags behind bars.

M P Lurker

09-10-06, 01:39

LBM,

absolutely correct, but the new numbers aren't in effect by today.
I am calling LOS on a daily basis and neither DTAC nor 1-2-call have changed to the new system so far. I assume they will do so in Nov.TT,

Not correct, as of yesterday I couldn't my girlfriend any longer without adding the 8.

M P Lurker

09-10-06, 01:50

Can I do anything about this?---No, I couldnt even find the place if I tried.

Did this bother me to witness all this in person?--Yes, I'm not a heartless thug.
Will the police stop this?---No way, From what I had heard afterwards, the police is ALWAYS in on this. They all know about these places and are often paid "protection money=bribes" and use police resourses to track down and return girls that runs away.

Try to affect an end to it????----Like it or not, its part of the Thai society we will never see. I only accidentally saw one house but there are thousands of them all over Thailand as gals are often "sold" to sex slavers by their own family for money and drugs and many others are kidnapped, never to be seen again. We may find all this depressing but its all normal and accepted business for the local men as they use these houses all the time, They are the main and only customers.

It's the Dark Side of P4P.

Before you become a hero and "try to affect an end to this" in another country. Think about what you are asking as sex slavery exist in your own countries.--just pick up a newspaper and once in a while you'll read about so and so sex traffikers caught in so and so cities at home. We cant even clean up our own act, how can we possible clean up the rest of the world.

PTA search of the internet will show that sex slavery occurrs all over the world. e.g. UK, USA, Australia, Dubai, just to name a few.

The girls often can't escape because they are illegal immigrants.

But I'm referring to any held against there will who wish to get out.

I remeber a big raid on a pace in Ranong a while back.

Many young girls freed.

I hope the "thousands" of places is a massive exaggeration.

Naturally any known places in Thailand should be exposed to both police and media to ensure something is done. We can always find non-corrupt people somewhere. So information must be given to multiple recipients.

Its hard to imagine the locations staying secret for long with all the modern day GPS equipment available.

Cannot be justified by just saying that corruption exists.

Freedom is supposed to basic human right.

Dinghy

09-10-06, 02:28

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/10Sep2006_news04.php

Thailand intends to stop the "permanent visa on arrival"

Brain666

09-10-06, 02:57

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/10Sep2006_news04.php

Thailand intends to stop the "permanent visa on arrival"

But is does not affect most of the frequent visitors coming to Thailand for mongering. It only affects the ones who more or less in fact are residents here and just don't go the officiell way. These also don't pay taxes on their hidden business etc.

So I can't see any bad thing in that. There are the same rules e.g. for Japan. There it is not allowed to stay in the country for more then 90 days in a year without beeing registered. And the 90 Days count as collective, however often you enter and go out.

So probably the new Thai rule with 3 entries needs some time limitation.

But the new rules only cause some inconvenience for the ones using this obvious leak of immigration regulations. Some simply need to register.

regards
Brain666

Sukhumvitter

09-11-06, 08:02

Check out the Thai dancers on http://sexicuties.********.com

Old Thai Hand

09-11-06, 14:50

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/10Sep2006_news04.php

Thailand intends to stop the "permanent visa on arrival"

Personally, I think this is a good thing and too long in coming.

There are too many people doing this visa run thing and circumnavigating the law. Given the hoops those of us who are legit have to go through to get proper visas, work permits and pay taxes, these guys who are living here on the margins, essentially for free deserve to be sent packing, if they don't get a proper visa to stay here for whatever reason they are living here. I know of many Farang who are doing business in Pattaya or upcountry, teaching English illegally, running various online businesses, including doing online trading; all earning money while living in Thailand, but doing so on essentially a tourist visa and without paying taxes. The law is if you are a resident for more than 6 months, you are required to get a TIN tax number and pay taxes.

Given the huge amount of taxes I pay (at least compared to your average Thai), I want to see these guys either brought to account or thrown out of the country.

The Traveler

09-11-06, 19:10

trav, I am sure Giotto, Piper, T1234, Vandalnn, Juice, Duni, OTH, Brain, Chalky, and a slew of others will join me in offering our most hearltfelt and humble apologies to you.
You are right, I am wrong, as are all the others, so let's just agree to disagree.
ROFLMAO.
1ball,

fine that you finally see the truth :)

But I wonder how you can speak for all the others you mentioned. You named at least two members I stay in contact with via PM who do not necessarily share your point of view. Better only speak for yourself and don't try to pretend to have their support. Or do you feel lost without it ?
They will speak for themselves if they want to.

Phantomtiger2

09-11-06, 23:06

I hope the "thousands" of places is a massive exaggeration.

Its hard to imagine the locations staying secret for long with all the modern day GPS equipment available.

Cannot be justified by just saying that corruption exists.

Freedom is supposed to basic human right.

Thailand is a big place and as almost every town and city in LOS may have these places, who really knows but thousands may not be an exaggeration (but exact count will never be known). The tuk tuk originally took me to over 5 places but I was simple not let in as I was not a Local, only the last one let me in for a look. So that was already about 6 places in only 45 mins time with just ONE driver.
As I pointed out, the locations of these places are NOT secret. It is only a secret to us foreigners as we are not intended to use them so we are never told about them. Most local Thai men who also monger will know them. Its a matter of economics. Local Thais all over the country cant go mongering to places we do as its too expensive for them (700-1500b for a gal is not much for us but it could be a week salary for them) so they use their own local mongering places on the cheap and nothing cheaper than slave labor.
Corruption is just one of the problems why these places will never go away as they are "protected". Yes, I'm sure raids are done when reporters/NGO get word of locations, but as reported , local police already know of them and do nothing as its often extra income for them to remain silent. The other problems have to do with social acceptence of these places by all the locals so they wont reported it as its their only mongering holes they can afford.
Just try to remember Prostitution is actually illegal in LOS and none of us foreign mongers will insist to the govt and police to shut all the MPs, go-go, beer bars, SW etc. that we all love. So we have our own places and locals have theirs. We may not like it but sure its been going on long time, way before we started mongering.
Finally, basic human rights sounds great on paper but its still a dream worldwide. Many civilized countries and govts still detain and torture people for just speaking out or just being in the wrong places etc. So in many places, the lack of basic rights is accepted as normal. We can only look outward and realize no matter how badly we think of our own countries, it's not so bad afterall.---IMO

PT

Old Thai Hand

09-12-06, 00:55

Its a matter of economics. Local Thais all over the country cant go mongering to places we do as its too expensive for them

This is not the reason. It's a matter of taste. Lots of Thai men have money and still wouldn't go to the places you guys monger at because they consider the women at places like Nana, Soi Cowboy and Pattaya, etc. to be butt-ugly.

There is a whole Thai go-go bar scene, for example that caters to them and it's almost the same cost, if not more expensive than it is at Nana. It's simply that the girls are white-skinned and beautiful, as opposed to what you find in the Farang-oriented P4P scene.

Phantomtiger2

09-12-06, 01:26

. It's a matter of taste. Lots of Thai men have money and still wouldn't go to the places you guys monger at because they consider the women at places like Nana, Soi Cowboy and Pattaya, etc. to be butt-ugly.

.

Yes, I do agree on this as I've met a few Thai men that were on levels with our Western standards of living. I met them mostly waiting at MPs and started chatting while we waited for the gals. They were paying the same 1800-2000b/session and wanted only fair skin gals to come out. But, most of these higher class Thais are only in the bigger cities (ex: BKK)
So just to clarify: The locals I was refering to on my post are the poorer, everyday workers all over the country (ex; construction workers, farmers, everyday laborers etc making perhaps 150-250b/day working 10 hrs/day.) They cant afford any of the venues we all visit, but can have the "slave brothel" as an option in their local towns/cities etc..
The one slave place I was let into only quoted me 100b for 1 hour.--I couldnt believe the price at first so I had repeated it and he said "chai=yes". And I assume this is already the mark up price for an outside foreigner so local men get even cheaper prices. Therefore, like I said, its something cheap enough for local Thai mongers to indulge. But even with the cheap price (less than $3) I was so totally turned off by what I saw that I didnt want any part of it.
BTW: I should have included a disclaimer as I'm NO expert in this matter( nor do I want to be) but just reporting what I've seen for myself and what others have told me when I inquired about this whole "underground trade" out of curiousity when all this happened to me.

Peace all

PT

1Ball

09-12-06, 05:14

I spoke to Coma Boy about 2 months ago. He told me he had grown tired of ISG, the bickering, and found the whole thing pointless.
He and I however will probably hook up for a drink in 3 weeks. I will tell him you all say hello.
(OMG, I hope this is considered to be real info. I would hate to be given 40 lashes for posting worthless banter).
Oh, who cares.............cucumbers, towel holders, Jacuzzis, dungeons, hahahahahaha (maniacal laugh).
Is it Ok to talk abt cucumbers in this thread? (Rhetorical question....)

Petemcc

09-12-06, 12:08

Hey guys,

Those of you who have read my postings( probably in the China thread) will know that I am doing a degree in nursing here in OZ. One of my modules is something called health sociology- and it is pure shite, but I need help with an assigenment:
This stuff is all about how society influences people's actions etc, and I am interested in how governments promote health awareness, particularly sex health awareness. I am posting this on many sites, including here, where it is obvious that condom use should be as much a part of Thai life as prostitution is, given the government condones it. I have RTFF and know that western- style condoms are hard to get, impossible to get, and/or very expensive, but how much so? Not all Thai men can have small dicks, and the young guys especially must be very sexually active, given the gorgeous Thai girls I have seen, so does the government allow the sale of cheap, decent sized, themed ( liked ribbed, flavoured) condoms, etc, or not? Especially ex pats, how do yuo get your man-sized condoms?

Please guys, a price, if they are available would be good. I'll not quote you as references in the bibliography, but this would be a really good angle. Before 18 Oct please, as assignment is due in by 20 Oct.

Thanks guys

Pete

The Traveler

09-12-06, 18:44

I have RTFF and know that western- style condoms are hard to get, impossible to get, and/or very expensive, but how much so?

Pete,

if you have really RTFF you should know that western-style condoms (Durex) are easy to get at any 7/11 and other supermarkets like Tops etc. all over the country. A package contains 3 pieces and will cost between 35-50 baht. Several sizes are available 49, 52 and 54, flavoured (mostly strawberry) and others.

Several years ago (in the 1980's) condoms were heavily advertised by Senator Mechai Viravaidya, also called Mr. Condom, and given out for free.

Admin

09-14-06, 01:26

Greetings Everyone,

As it has become increasingly obvious that a small number (one?) of Forum Members just can't observe the basic rules of civility that I have developed for everyone's benefit, I have decided to place the Thailand Forum under the "No Crosstalk" restrictions. Effective immediately, any report that directly addresses another Forum Member by name or reference will be deleted without comment.

If you feel that you need to exchange comments directly with another Forum Member, then do so in the designated Fight Club so that the rest of us can you and return to the purpose of this forum, which is:

"The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange of information between Men on the subject of finding Women for Sex."

Thanks,

Jackson

Diyexplorer

09-14-06, 19:28

I do not know whether anyone else had posted this in the forum, but I think this info is important and this is the only thread that I think is appropriate for such news.

PHUKET: -- The Royal Thai Consulate in neighboring Penang, Malaysia, has stopped issuing double-entry tourist visas for Thailand. The only tourist visa currently available there is a 60-day single-entry one.

An official at the consulate this afternoon told the Gazette that Consul Pramote Pramoonsab had issued an order to cease issuance of double-entry tourist visas.

Other visa categories are unaffected by the order, the official added.

The Royal Thai Consulate in Kota Bharu and the Royal Thai Embassy in Kuala Lumpur are, for the time being, still issuing double-entry tourist visas.

Fareeda Chewae of the Royal Thai Embassy in Kuala Lumpur warned that this may change in the near future, however.

The Gazette contacted the consulates following the news that from October 1 Thai Immigration will limit to three the number of visas on arrival it s officers will issue at Immigration checkpoints in Thailand.

To cope with the new policy, many long-stay “tourists” who currently do ‘visa runs’ every month are looking for alternative ways to spend more than three months with their families or friends in Thailand. As a possible short term solution to the problem, some foreigners had been contemplating short trips to Penang where they would obtain multiple-entry tourist visas that would not go against their limit of three visas “on arrival [in Thailand]”.

The chiefs of all Immigration offices will meet in Bangkok tomorrow to discuss the details of the new Immigration policy, after which they will make a much-awaited statement.

While intended as a crackdown measure on foreigners working illegally in the county, the policy has created widespread concern across broad segments of the foreign community in Phuket, particularly among the large numbers who do not work and have no interest in working.

Perceived correctly or incorrectly as a move to discourage foreigners from spending much time here, the new policy has alarmed local residents, both Thai and foreign, about the future of Thailand’s all-important tourism and property development industries.

--Phuket Gazette 2006-09-14

Diyexplorer

09-14-06, 19:32

BANGKOK: -- Thai Airways International (THAI) is ready to begin commercial operations at Suvarnabhumi Airport on Friday.

“Everything is now ready to serve passengers,” said Mano Sapayanon, Director of THAI’s Ground Services Support Department.

The first commercial flight out of the new airport will be TG 8860, a Boeing 737-400, from Bangkok to Phitsanulok at 6.30 AM.

On Saturday, some of THAI’s flights between the capital and Chiangmai and Ubon Ratchathani will also begin operating at Suvarnabhumi. Passengers are advised to check their tickets in advance and plan accordingly.

An “NBK” code on a ticket means that the flight is at Suvarnabhumi Airport, while “BKK” is at Bangkok International Airport (Don Muang).

When arriving at the new airport, Mano said passengers should go to island number 2 at the west end of the departure hall where the airline’s domestic check-in counters are located. After receiving a boarding pass, passengers will proceed to either concourse A or B where the domestic departure gates are situated.

THAI will begin servicing six daily flights between Suvarnabhumi Airport and Phitsanulok, while low cost carrier Jetstar will operate six of their own flights between Bangkok and Singapore from the new airport.

To provide the best service to both domestic and international passengers, Airports of Thailand Plc. will assign staff to provide information at the terminal.

Inquiries can also be made at the airport’s Call Centre at (02) 132 – 1888, which will have 24-hour service starting Friday.

--TNA 2006-09-14

Bolongo

09-14-06, 20:17

Run Mann

09-14-06, 20:25

I hope its ok to answer this question, if not then I'm sure Jackson will delete it.

Bolongo,

You landed in the Thailand thread to ask about Brazil, try posting your question in the Brazil thread.

Guys,

I am looking to take a trip to Brazil around March/April when I get back from Iraq. It may just be me or 1 or 2 other guys. What should we do to enjoy our time and the women? Whats the best area/hotel/clubs to go to? Thanks for the help.

Bolongo

09-14-06, 20:27

Yeah I edited it. Thanks for the catch.

Terry Terrier

09-14-06, 22:01

My link to Coma Boy's excellent blog somehow ended up in the Fight Club thread after Jackson's recent cull. The blog is very on-topic and, I'm sure, of interest to many readers of the Thai section. So I'm re-posting the link:

http://morallydiminished.********.com/

Coma, if you're reading this, when do I get my cheque?

Rebad

09-14-06, 22:46

My ex-wife (american) loved me licking and sucking on her toes.

I know Thai's consider the foot dirty.
Does this apply to the little piggies as well?

I'd hate to offend my future ex-wife.

Giotto

09-15-06, 13:13

Here we go! Thailand tightens visa regulation starting 01.10.2006!

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=112925

Giotto

Retired Army

09-15-06, 14:18

My ex-wife (american) loved me licking and sucking on her toes.

I know Thai's consider the foot dirty.
Does this apply to the little piggies as well?

I'd hate to offend my future ex-wife.
Depends on the girl. A girl fresh from Issan might be offended; but ,my Thai G.F. loves it.

Cumtoau

09-17-06, 07:20

Yo bros,

Landed at the dreamland yesterday.

Bloody waited almost an hour at the immigrantion queue.

They had to take pics off everysingle one. Damn.

Anyway.

Headed off to Beirgarden Soi 7 for some action last nite.

80baht for a beer. Not bad.

And you can chat with any girls around you. For that price.

Can't complain.

Met some new frens "farangs" haha at the bar, and they showed me around. Ended up at a dance party. Don know the name. As I was so bloody drunk already. Couldn't careless.

Anyhow. Was dancing with some young 19 year old student. She still has a dental "braces" on her teeth. Thats how young she is. Was touching all ova her. I forgot what happened. I was so drunk. Forgot my intention was to get them LAID. Haha. This is my lesson. NEVER GET DRUNK.

I ended up on the street till 6. 30am in the morning.

A pretty chic woke me up. She is an ANGEL. I'll say she is around early 20s. So I offer to drop her home by taxi. And took her no. So I'm gonna date her out tonite! Haha Thai ppl are very friendly.

Not every chics are $$$ hungry. If they are having a good time with you, I don't think $$$ is the major concern.

Come on, couple of thousand baht, it doesn't hurt. Does it? Haha

Jeff46

09-17-06, 13:42

Guys,

I am looking to take a trip to thailand around March/April when I get back from Iraq. It may just be me or 1 or 2 other guys. What should we do to enjoy our time and the women? Whats the best area/hotel/clubs to go to? Does any one know about this place? http://www.clubfantasyformen.com/en/executive.php ? Thanks for the help.Hi Guys,

Personaly I recommend you just forget this club they just ripp you off. ENJOY FREE STAY IN THAILAND AND MAY USE EDEN AND OTHER AND ALL THE FREELANCE in every corner.

Isg Not Msg

09-18-06, 08:01

recently, the planets aligned (pluto was even in line) and i found myself with some free time. i booked a ticket to bangkok and began reading this and other boards more thoroughly. on several occasions, i was tempted to post a question online, but seeing as how that’s rightly frowned upon, i instead kept digging further back in the forums for my answers. while some of the chitchat between the regulars proved tedious, i was able to find answers to most of my questions and by the time my plane touched down at bkk, i was ready.

the walk through immigration and customs was quick and uneventful. as promised, i found the taxi booth just outside the arrivals area. showed the attendant the address of the town lodge on sukhumvit soi 18 and got into an appointed cab. “meter please, toll way okay.” seconds later we were racing towards sukhumvit at 140kph – two tolls at 20 and 40 baht respectively. the plane landed about 11:15pm and i was in my hotel room by midnight.

i liked what i’d read about the town lodge both from reviews on this as well as on one other site. with high hopes for the jacuzzi suite, were i to come even remotely close to reliving some of evil’s exploits, i would have considered the trip an ultimate success. unfortunately though, my stay here was probably the most disappointing part of the whole trip. the construction surrounding the hotel began at 6 am and didn’t end until well into early evening, making any attempts at sound sleep nearly impossible. the air conditioning unit in my room wasn’t working properly, the jacuzzi’s drain wouldn’t plug and the showerhead broke twice. maybe i had an atypically bad room or maybe pluto was falling out of line, protesting its demotion as a planet? i changed rooms on the second day and hotels on the third day.

back to the first night. i was pretty tired but very excited about my options. i considered stopping at either nana or cowboy, but instead headed over to [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901)’s. someone in an earlier post mentioned that these women know what they are doing and take pride in their jobs. i can definitely confirm that they know what they are doing. i have had my share of blowjobs but this was hands down the best blowjob i have had! halfway through, while the tip of my cock was massaging nam’s tonsils, i had my own serendipitous moment of confirmation, realizing as so many of you have, why we come here. by the time i was leaving, the girls were coming inside and closing shop. total damage including a drink and a modest tip, was about 750b. throughout the rest of my stay in thailand, i visited [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901)’s again both in bangkok as well as in pattaya, i am sad to say that, while above average, none of the consequent visits rivaled nam’s first-night performance.

on the way back to the hotel, my body was demanding a massage. no shortage of massage parlors in this city. one hour traditional thai massage, half a block from the hotel was 200b. she offered to massage ‘everything’ for an additional 500b but i passed. stopped by the hotel bar for a beer, no one else there, so i headed to my room looking forward to a nice, long and rejuvenating night of sleep. the bulldozers started up at 6 am!

breakfast on day two was pretty standard, no buffet, but the girl at the front desk did scramble some eggs for me. later that morning, i went for a walk, down to nana across suk and back again to soi 31. i walked down 31 for about 15 minutes looking for any sign of livingstone’s. no giotto, no lodge and no dead artists. i was pretty tired, sweaty and hot. so i headed back to the hotel where after checking my notes i kicked myself. the lodge is on soi 33 and not 31. more on livingstone’s lodge later.

after a bit of rest, i decided to look up giotto’s thorough massage parlor report. i didn’t want to walk too far, so i headed over to the korean style sazanka massage off soi 22. his description of the joint is pretty dead on so i won’t go into too many details. i took the two hour complete package. while the whole salt slap and hot towel wrap experience was interesting, i don’t think i’ll repeat should opportunity presents itself. her name was nana and total damage for two hours of skin scrubbing, back walking, hard massage, happy ending, a drink and a tip was around 1500b. some lunch and back to the hotel for a battle of wills between me and the bulldozers.

patpong has certainly received mixed reviews. most recent articles i found on the place were negative and cautioned against the hawkers and the upstairs bars. but the place is legendary and i didn’t feel right ignoring it. on sukhumvit i flagged down a cab and asked for patpong, the driver chuckled and gave me an all knowing smile. about ten minutes later he dropped me off on suriwong road in front of patpong soi 1. the meter was just shy of 50 baht. as far as people watching goes, this place beats nana and cowboy hands down. i found the juxtaposition of dismayed middle aged men, with their families in tow, checking out the street market while at the same time being propositioned by the countless hawkers and girls, well… amusing.

walked around for a bit, took a drink at one of the bars, i think it was kings corner. a handful of lookers but the vibe was a little off. i headed for silom to look for a cab back. someone in a previous report had alluded to some organized groups controlling the cabs. i couldn’t find a ride back to sukhumvit for less than 100b, most offers were for about 200b and none of the fine taxi drivers were willing to use their meters. luckily, the bts station sala daeng was about a block down the road. congratulations to bangkok for such a comfortable, easy to navigate and efficient sky train system. 15 minutes, 25b and one transfer later, i was at asoke station.

took a walk through cowboy and after checking out a couple of the bars, i negotiated a night’s worth of activities with a decent looking spinner. on the way back to the hotel we were both hungry. town lodge doesn’t have room service or a restaurant nearby. halfway down soi 18 on the left side though, is the rembrandt hotel, a luxury 4 or 5-star type hotel. one of their restaurants was open so in we went. duniawala’s hotels' database has no notes about the girl friendliness of this hotel, but we walked past several uniformed hotel staff on our way to the upstairs restaurant with nary a stray look. (for the same database, i might recommend a star-rating of 3 for the town lodge.) we had a nice dinner with a couple of drinks for about 1500b. at a nearby table, some rather impatient south asian guests made asses of themselves by treating the poor wait staff like lower caste folk. back at the hotel, an average night of sex was had and a pleasant goodbye in the morning as well. total damage (bar fine included) was about 2500b.

day three. finding a ride to pattaya and trying out another one of giotto’s reviewed massage establishments. after another too-early breakfast, i caught up on some work and then headed out to orchards just off soi 31. i guess i was a bit early and they had just opened, since there was only one girl there and she didn’t look ready yet. the reviews suggested an actual 90 minutes massage and an optional 30 minute testicles massage.

the gal, whose name i can’t recall, began the massage but after about fifteen minutes had my shorts off and was straddling me ready for action. i had actually hoped for a decent massage but her enthusiasm woke me up and what followed can best be described as an hour of raw sex. she was uncharacteristically wild and aggressive. not what i had anticipated but thoroughly enjoyable. damage – 300b for the 15 minute massage and 1000b for her. on the way out i noticed that the regular lineup of girls had arrived.

with the massage and the second morning round out of the way, all i had on the old agenda was finding a ride to pattaya and arranging accommodations for my return to bangkok. with the soi 31/33 confusion behind me, i set out for livingstone’s lodge to make the final arrangements. my first impressions and gut feeling for a place have rarely let me down, and my first impression of this place was very positive. i was warmly greeted by an absolutely stunning lady at the entryway out by soi 33 and escorted to the reservations desk. friendly, smiling and relaxed, the manager stopped at the reception desk to introduce himself and welcome me. he couldn’t have made a better first impression. within minutes, the room was reserved, the car to pattaya was hired and i was pool-side enjoying a late lunch.

the ride to pattaya took a little over 3 hours. future travelers will be wise not to leave during the afternoon rush hour. in pattaya, i checked into the queen victoria inn and was quickly greeted by the proprietor, vic. my room was clean, quiet and comfortable, though a bit cozy. the bar downstairs served as the reception for the hotel, gathering place for some of the local ex-pat community and proved to also provide a nice variety of delicious food at reasonable rates. vic himself provided a basic intro to pattaya and the different neighborhoods. the standard room at 600b came with ac, satellite tv, fridge and water but no telephone. incidentally, i picked up a pre-paid thai sim card early on in the trip for about 500 baht, used it quite a bit for mostly local calls but also an occasional call to the states and i still have some time remaining on it.

what can i say about pattaya that hasn’t already been said? my first impression as the taxi turned on soi 6 to drop me off at the hotel was akin to my first visit to las vegas, or the first time i remember going to a theme park – like a kid in a candy shop. this street and many others nearby are packed with a number of short-time parlors with the ladies standing outside and enticing passersby to join them inside.

a note about soi 6 and some of the other sois close by, as martians has so eloquently alluded to in some of his previous posts, is the abundance of katoey bars. reading all the posts describing run-ins with the lady boys, i never felt i would mistake a guy for a girl, no matter how well costumed. that first night, as i was walking down soi 6 towards the beach i decided to stop at one of the beer bars to have a drink. they all looked so good, too good really. (s)he sat next to me as i ordered a drink. at the 2 minute mark i began having suspicions and at the 4 minute mark i was convinced. at the 5 minute mark i was out of there.

pattaya was wonderful. i spent the days relaxing on the beach, getting foot or traditional thai massages, napping and mourning steve irwin. at nights, i would find a woman and fuck her silly. i can’t understand the people who write and ask all these questions about where to say and what to do. in pattaya, especially, the agenda is pretty easy to follow. for those with more time on their hands the city offers a variety of other more traditional pastimes such as bungee jumping, parasailing, fishing, etc. not really why i was there.

from its body sliding soapies, walking street go-gos and the many many many many beer bars pattaya offers a little (a lot) for any taste. the only thing i will recommend against is the dream teen massage on soi 21 of soi bua khao. their website advertised a balls massage and seeing as how my last attempt did not actually produce an adequate massage, i decided to give the whole balls massage another go. in readings before my trip, i had come across the term balls massage or testicle massage but couldn’t find an adequate description. so any other newbies searching for ‘balls massages’, it’s nothing more than a glorified pre-hand job. the girl gives you a massage, oily or traditional or whatever you’ve asked for then starts tickling your balls and arousing you. with dick in hand she then asks if you want the special. at this joint, i was offered 500b for a hand job, 1000b for a blow and 2000b for ‘boom-boom’. i call it a pre-hand job since it stops if you refuse the extras. i bargained her down to 650 for a blow with a promise of another 100 if she was really good. she wasn’t. on the way out, i thought i heard her call me a charlie. i don’t think i was and frankly at that point couldn’t have cared less. i was just happy to be leaving. this place is also a little off the main circuit. it took me about 20 minutes to get there by foot.

as i sit here by the window of my room in the queen vic, typing this update, i count 42 women lining the street across from the hotel on soi 6, at their respective short-time bars. a couple of them see me in the window and yell out my room number. what a life they lead.

the ride back to bangkok was uneventful – 950b door-to-door, included tolls.

back at livingstone’s that evening, i checked into a nice room with a double jacuzzi. i called the front desk for a wake up call, which either never came or i slept right through. until this point, i had avoided nana but wanted to make up for lost time. i took the bts two stops to the nana station and stopped into several different bars finally settling on a nicely endowed northern beauty, mei from (i think it was) lollipop. back at the hotel, she rocked my world again and again. a jacuzzi was finally put to good use.

the next night, the lodge had a french maid’s theme party. it was suppose to start at 7 but at 7:30, aside from the maids there was no one else there. i decided to walk down a few blocks to akane’s fashion massage to see what all the fuss was about. i chose miki who proceeded to give me a very nice 30 minute foot massage, since the upstairs rooms were in use. later upstairs the routine was pretty much as has been described in this forum. i should say that while i didn’t see it, i certainly felt that she had a tongue cover of some sort. the experience all together was not as pleasurable as i had hoped, nevertheless, an average experience. the cost for an 80 minute fashion massage, which included some hardcore rimming, was about 1500b. miki earned her 200b tip.

by about 10, when i arrived back at the lodge, the party was in full swing – smart crowd, beautiful women and a good time. i need to find a job like yi ren, and base myself out of bangkok! that night and into the next afternoon, i was properly introduced to the world of threesomes. this was without doubt the highlight of the trip. round one from about midnight until 2, out to the street corner for the best tasting (and spiciest) thai food i’ve ever eaten, round two until about 3:30, after which we all passed out. those last 30-some hours, from the time of the party until my departure for the airport, i received better gfe-type attention from these two women than i’ve received from any other of my previous girlfriends. is this a sad statement on the state of my previous relationships or a compliment to the girls and their skills? i don’t want to think too much about the answer.

i had planned on spending my last day at the eden club, but seeing as how i had already found two hard-working and eager friends with near-perfect chemistry, i passed on the club. in all honesty, i am not sure if i had any energy left for the eden treatment anyway. next trip, it’s sure to be one of the first stops.

3 am –a warm good-bye and on to the airport for my very early flight back to reality.

a final note about livingstone’s lodge, although i had my hesitations about the place prior to arrival, i will stay no where else on my next trip to bangkok. outside of the maybe-missed wake up call that first night i could find no fault with my stay there. the staff was professional, relaxed and accommodating. the management was welcoming and friendly. the women, at least the two i got to know a little better, were fantastic!

editor's note: i certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the reports of distinction thread. please click here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Meaty

09-19-06, 03:43

...[CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901)’s....total damage including a drink and a modest tip, was about 750b........a final note about livingstone’s lodge, although i had my hesitations about the place prior to arrival, i will stay no where else on my next trip to bangkok. outside of the maybe-missed wake up call that first night i could find no fault with my stay there. the staff was professional, relaxed and accommodating. the management was welcoming and friendly. the women, at least the two i got to know a little better, were fantastic!.....
excellent fr, very informative with a mix of info, very enjoyable read. [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901)'s was cheap though, did you drink tap water and tip the girl 'a modest' 20 baht :d the bj is 700 baht already !
have yet to hear from a serious brother that they haven't enjoyed a stay at g's place - still haven't made the maids party, my outfit is usually in the wash.
like your nick, for a new member you seem to have done very well not only in reading the threads but understanding them too !

Isg Not Msg

09-19-06, 07:08

excellent fr, very informative with a mix of info, very enjoyable read. [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901)'s was cheap though, did you drink tap water and tip the girl 'a modest' 20 baht :d the bj is 700 baht already!

have yet to hear from a serious brother that they haven't enjoyed a stay at g's place - still haven't made the maids party, my outfit is usually in the wash.
like your nick, for a new member you seem to have done very well not only in reading the threads but understanding them too !thanks for the nice feedback. i am glad the read was enjoyable. the write and the related 'research' were also quite enjoyable.

as for [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901)'s, i did drink water, and i think i tipped her 100b. it was late at night. i had just received the blowjob of my life and may have forgotten the exact damage. it was close to 700b though.

Member #3409

09-19-06, 11:57

Walked around for a bit, took a drink at one of the bars, I think it was Kings Corner. A handful of lookers but the vibe was a little off. I headed for Silom to look for a cab back. Someone in a previous report had alluded to some organized groups controlling the cabs. I couldn’t find a ride back to Sukhumvit for less than 100B, most offers were for about 200B and none of the fine taxi drivers were willing to use their meters. Luckily, the BTS station Sala Daeng was about a block down the road. Congratulations to Bangkok for such a comfortable, easy to navigate and efficient sky train system. 15 minutes, 25B and one transfer later, I was at Asoke station.Good report that one. Just two bits of advice. First with the taxi's in Patpong the best way I've found is to cross Silom and hail one on the corner near Soi Convent. Never had one not use a meter. The ones who seem to loiter are the ones who cause a bit a trouble and want a fixed price, but for some reason the other side no problems.

Also if you are going from Silom to Cowboy, you can also use the underground train. The station (think its called Silom) is about 150m futher down Silom, but a little closer when you get to Cowboy. The station there is called Sukumviut. Price is usually just a little higher, but no need to change at Siam and usually not as crowed as the BTS.

Admin

09-20-06, 15:38

Greetings Everyone,

I have created a new thread titled "Thailand Politics" for discussing said subject.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=2526

Thanks,

Jackson

Carrick

09-21-06, 04:08

The United States government will begin issuing passports with RFID (radio-frequency identification). If you don't have a passport and you anticipate traveling internationally in the next 10 years, get one NOW. If you have a passport and you anticipate traveling internationally in the next 10 years, get yours renewed NOW (whether there is time left on it or not).

The RFID passport stores an electronic copy of the passport holder's information, and it may store fingerprints and digital visas in the future. By itself, this is no problem. However, according to Bruce Schneier security expert) in an article through the Washington Post Service, "the RFID chips don't have to be plugged in to a [reading device] to operate. Like chips used for automatic toll collection on roads, these chips operate via proximity."

"This means that an RFID passport could be read without your knowledge or consent by a government trying to track your movements or, worse, by a criminal trying to steal your identity." Some safety precautions are being adjusted by the U.S. government stemming from complaints by experts. Such adjustments include shielded covers and access-control and encryption mechanisms. (quoted and paraphrased from Schneier's Washington Post article of September 21, 2006)

But experts say these changes don't go far enough to secure a passport holder's privacy. The RFID is in its infancy, and radio frequency technology is sure to out-pace the now feeble chip which will be placed in America passports starting at the end of this year. (ibid)

Security risks have already been demonstrated. One researcher found he "could identify individual chips via unique characteristics of the radio transmissions. Another researcher successfully cloned a chip."
Dismissed by the U.S. government as a "meaningless stunt," pointing out the researchers couldn't read or change the data. These security breaches were demonstrated after only two weeks of trying. (ibid)

The greatest risk to you is this: the RFID chip must last the lifetime of the passport (or 10 years of validity which ever comes first).
"Improvements in antenna technology will certainly increase the distance at which they can be read and might even allow unauthorized readers to penetrate the shielding." (ibid)

If you already have the RFID style passport, you can disable it by "popping [it] into a microwave...." Schneier reported that "the United States has said that a nonworking chip will not invalidate a passport." (ibid)

"The Colorado passport office is already issuing RFID passports, and the State Department expects all U.S. passport offices to be doing so by the end of the year." If you get a new passport now (from another passport office other than the Colorado office), 10 years can lapse and the technology can mature to better understand security risks. "You don't want to be a guinea pig on this one." (ibid)

Please pass this on to others whom you believe can benefit from the information.

Duniawala

09-21-06, 13:48

Yi Ren

09-21-06, 15:30

I am confused. First you exhort all, to get the new RFID passports and in the same breath you point out all the pitfalls of having it. Do we/should we get new passports? As for me, I will wait another 9 years when my passport expires.
Duni,

I think he was saying to get new passports NOW - before the new system is in place. As for me, I have a microwave, and know how to use it! :)

Cheers,
-Y

El Greco

09-21-06, 17:10

Very nice post. Keep up the good work and go back asap.

El Greco

Duniawala

09-22-06, 01:40

Duni,

I think he was saying to get new passports NOW - before the new system is in place. As for me, I have a microwave, and know how to use it! :)

Cheers,
-Y
Well, Duh!

Bigguy4469

09-22-06, 16:19

How many times are you allowed to entry into Thailand I entered three times this year is that the limit?

Thank you for your help.

M P Lurker

09-23-06, 04:21

How many times are you allowed to entry into Thailand I entered three times this year is that the limit?

Thank you for your help.Never noticed any limit nor ever been concerned that there would be a limit. I have entered well over 3 times in a year.

You are limited to not too long at a time, but can keep leaving and entering.

Of course I assume you are not involved in illegal activities that would bring Customs interest.

Bigguy4469

09-23-06, 18:37

Never noticed any limit nor ever been concerned that there would be a limit. I have entered well over 3 times in a year.

You are limited to not too long at a time, but can keep leaving and entering.

Of course I assume you are not involved in illegal activities that would bring Customs interest.Thank you for yor help no illegal stuff just went once in Feb and then here in Sept, went to China for 4 days got bored and returned to Bkk, meet a couple of girls off asian friend finder and would like to return to see them again before the end of the year.

Thanks for your help. I will look into some plane tickets and prices.

Shamas

09-24-06, 23:02

Thai monks soothe angry spirits at new airport

BANGKOK (AFP) - The control tower is built and the luggage carousels are operating but one thing officials at Bangkok's new airport had not expected was the late arrival of Poo Ming, the guardian spirit.

After a spate of ghostly sightings and unfortunate accidents, 90 monks massed inside the shining new complex Saturday to chant rites ensuring good luck ahead of Thursday's official opening.

During the religious proceedings, a shaking man appeared crying and speaking in a strange voice claiming to be Poo Ming (Grandfather Ming), the guardian spirit of the land on which the airport was built.

He demanded a spirit house to be built at the airport -- a fixture in many homes and work places in Buddhist Thailand -- before promptly fainting.

"Even if it's unbelieveable, we will not insult something we cannot prove," said senior airport official Surajit Surapolchai. He said the authorities planned to build a spirit house soon.

Supernatural events had long been talked about at the new Suvarnabhumi international airport built on land that once been home to a centuries-old temple and a cemetery.

Workers had spoken of seeing a woman in Thai-style costume at the construction site in the evenings and were unnerved after frequent car crashes on a road parallel to a runway, the Bangkok Post reported.

Airport general manager, Somchai Sawasdeepon, said the monks chanted rites at 10 places in the airport for Saturday's ceremony.

"The rite is to help promote and lift the people's spirits before the new airport opens since there were many bad things that happened during its construction," he said.

Last week the roof started leaking. Then Premier Thaksin Shinawatra, the man who had made the airport's construction a priority project, was unseated in a military coup nine days before the official opening.

Thailand's turbulent politics and repeated corruption scandals have delayed the airport's opening since it was first mooted four decades ago.

Thai officials hope the airport, capable of dealing with 45 million passengers a year, will become the new hub for regional air travel.

The Thai population is 95 percent Buddhist and a belief in ancient spirits remains strong, particularly in rural areas.
_________________
Shamas O'Dognasty
Gourmet Catering & Septic Tank Cleaning

Phantomtiger2

09-25-06, 23:37

How many times are you allowed to entry into Thailand I entered three times this year is that the limit?

Thank you for your help.

No set limits for now if you are a tourist.
But starting next year, the govt have set strict limits on the number of visa runs allowed--this is meant to discourage ex-pats and others from overstaying. New limits will be 90 days allowed in LOS then you must leave the country for set amount of time before being allowed to enter again.

PT

Brain Damaged

09-26-06, 03:06

I guess the summary would be: you can spend less than one-half of your time in Thailand using the visitor visa that you obtain on arrival.

--begin broadcast message from US Embassy

Subject: American Embassy Warden Message - Change in Thailand's Visa Policy

Attention American Citizens:

The Thai Immigration Bureau recently announced a change in Visa Regulations that is scheduled to go into effect on October 1, 2006. This change will affect citizens of 39 countries, including American citizens, who are exempt from obtaining a Thai visa prior to entering Thailand. Effective October 1, 2006, American citizens who enter Thailand without a visa will be allowed to stay in Thailand for 30 days per visit as before. However, the total duration of stay in Thailand for American citizens who enter Thailand without a visa cannot exceed 90 days in any six-month period, counting from the date of first entry.

American citizens who wish to remain in Thailand for longer than 90 days during any six-month period will be required to obtain a valid Thai visa from a Thai Embassy or Consulate that is authorized to issue visas. The U.S. Embassy advises all American citizens who wish to obtain a Thai visa to contact the Thai Immigration Bureau for exact visa requirements and regulations. Persons who do not comply with the new visa regulations risk being denied reentry to Thailand at the border.

The U.S. Embassy has been attempting to seek clarifications and additional information from the Thai Immigration Bureau regarding the change in visa regulations. To date the Embassy has been unable to determine whether American citizens who have been in Thailand for 90 days or longer without a visa before October 1, 2006 will be considered
to have reached their 90-day limit on October 1, 2006, or whether the 90 days will start from the first time the American citizen crosses the border into Thailand after the new regulation goes into effect. When/if the Embassy receives a definitive answer to this question we will post that information on the Embassy's web site at:
http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/index.htm.

Petemcc

09-27-06, 01:38

I didn't know where to post this, and I'll probably get a right slagging off, but it's just a bit of humour.

I was out on my daily bike ride, and was listening to the song 'Angels' by that good old Manchester boy Robbie Williams. I hope he doesn't sue me for this, but I was thinking that when he originally wrote the song, he was in fact writing about Thai bar girls, but obviously he changed the lyrics when he realised he couldn'make 10 billion pounds from the original version.

Anyway, here's the chart-topping version and in brackets, along side it, is the version that he probably actually wrote.

The man is a genius!

I sit and wait (I sit and wait)
Does an angel contemplate my fate (Does a bar girl contemplate my fate)
And do they know (And do they know)
The places where we go (The places where we go)
When we´re grey and old (When we’re grey and old)
´Cos I´ve been told (Cos they have been told)
That salvation lets their wings unfold (That pattaya lets our wallets unfold)
So when I’m lying in my bed (So when I’m lying in my bed)
Thoughts running through my head (Thoughts running through my head)
And I feel that love is dead (And I feel that love is dead)
I’m loving angels instead (I’m loving Thai girls instead)

And through it all she offers me protection (And through it all, I do her with protection)
A lot of love and affection (A lot of love no infection)
Whether I'm right or wrong (Whether that's right or wrong)
and down the waterfall (And down the Walking Street)
wherever it may take me (Wherever it may take me)
I know that life wont break me (I know the fine won’t break me)
when I come to call ,she wont forsake me (When I go longtime, she won’t forsake me)
I’m loving angels instead (I’m loving Thai girls instead)

When I’m feeling weak (When I’m feeling weak)
And my pain walks down a one way street (And my pain walks down that Walking Street)
I look above (I look above)
And I know ill always be blessed with love (And I know I will always be blessed with love)
And as the feeling grows (And as my hard on grows)
She breathes flesh to my bones (She sucks me ‘till I blow)
And when love is dead (And when my manhood’s dead)
I’m loving angels instead (I’m loving bar girls instead)

And through it all she offers me protection (and through it all, I do her with protection)
A lot of love and affection (a lot of love no infection)
Whether I'm right or wrong (Whether that's right or wrong)
And down the waterfall (and down the Walking Street)
Wherever it may take me (wherever it may take me)
I know that life wont break me (I know the fine won’t break me)
When I come to call ,she wont forsake me (when I go longtime, she won’t forsake me)
I’m loving angels instead (I’m loving Thai girls instead)

©Petemcc 2006

Sorry I couldn't do it in colours or bold.

Pete

Shamas

09-27-06, 02:15

Brain Damaged

09-27-06, 03:59

From what I've read the new visa rules were the first thing the military coup changed (other than taking over). The King didn't like the new rules, many rich and influential farangs didn't like them, many Thais would lose lots of money, All Samo Samo again.

Just my best rumor of the day

Shamas O'Dognasty

Yeah, the rumour mill has been spinning wildly lately (Shamas is correct in that the rumour mill in Thailand often knows what's going to happen before it happens, and I think that I heard that the head of Thai immigration under Thaksin got booted on Tuesday). On the other hand, I've been trying to get clarification ever since the visa changes were announced since the new rules, if enforced, would screw me up business-wise. As far as I know, the US embassy's broadcast message is the only quasi-official statement that I have been able to find. The embassy's statement was issued Monday, September 25 at 10:52 AM Bangkok time.

Thailand's Immigration Bureau has posted visa requirements that become effective October 1, 2006 at http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/newpro.html. (I had checked the site previously on Monday, September 25 and this announcement had not been posted.) The web posting reflects the US embassy's announcement.

However, as these are uncertain times regarding entry into Thailand, and there is a difference between laws/regulations and enforcement of said laws/regulations, I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has found any other quasi-official statement or reasonable rumours (such as at http://www.thaivisa.com), a non-mongering :-) farang forum that is pretty good regarding the feeling on the streets), as I just returned from BKK last week and need to go back in October. (PM me so that Jackson doesn't get bent out of shape about cross talk!)

YMMV

BD

Tiger 888

09-30-06, 03:49

overstaying is dangerous

i just found this. a warning to anyone not to overstay the visa.
it may not be done with just paying 500 per day.
story of a guy who ended up in a overcrowded 3rd world jail (thai in this case) for overstaying a single day with a ticket on hand to fly out the next day.

any guidebook that contains a visa information section will tell you that if you overstay a visa in thailand, you will be fined 100 or 200 baht for every day you have overstayed. you can pay this money to the immigration officer upon your departure at the airport.

can you imagine a situation where a man overstays his thai visa by one day, is unlucky enough to be picked up by the immigration police doing a spot-check, and thrown into a thai jail without food and water for five days, in a cell containing 260 people with barely room to stand up. sounds ridiculous doesn’t it. let me tell you that it isn’t. because seven years ago, i was that man.

it was a saturday morning in october about 7.45 am. i had overslept due to a rather late night, and was awoken by a loud knock on the door. normally, i would have been up and dressed and on my work to my office at the silom rd gemstone company by 7.15, but it was sheer fate that on that particular morning, my routine went out the window. i opened the door somewhat groggily to be confronted by half a dozen young thai guys in plain casual clothes. my initial reaction was that they had got the wrong room. i was living at that time in a rather seedy apartment building in the soi sri bamphaen area of the city, and there were always groups of dodgy-looking thai lads wandering around. they muttered something in thai that i couldn't quite catch, and i politely told them that they had the wrong room. it was at that moment that one of them uttered the magic words "immigration, passport", and they came into my apartment.

i stood there somewhat bewildered as they proceeded to open drawers, check the clothes in my wardrobe, and flash a torch under the bed. i started to become somewhat angry when one of them grabbed my arms to check for needle-pricks. i rushed over to where i kept my passport and held it out for scrutiny. perhaps that might be the key to live me in peace.the guy who appeared to be the head man flicked through the passport until he arrived at the visa page, looked at it carefully, and exclaimed "overstay, you come immigration". i have to say that i wasn't the slightest bit worried at this point. i knew about the 100 baht a day overstay, and i also had a flight ticket to singapore for the following day. it had been my intention to pay 200 baht at the airport when i left the country. at least they knew it was my intention to leave.

i called my boss at work to say i would be late, and was escorted downstairs to the front of the apartment building. i was told to get in the back of a pick-up truck along with a young french guy and an israeli. they had been rounded up just 10 minutes earlier for not being in possession of a passport at all. we made nervous conversation as we rode through the streets to the police station on soi suan phlu next to the immigration office.

at the police station itself, i was made to fill in several forms, and generally sat around for what seemed like hours. the tension of the whole situation was heightened by a vicious argument going on between two policemen. it was something we didn't need. just adjacent to the room we were in was a large holding cell with iron bars. there were about 100 people in it just staring out into space . teenage motorcycle joy-riders, the odd prostitute and pimp, and a good handful of farangs rounded up for passport violation. i certainly didn't belong with them. i had just overstayed a visa by one day. i'll be on my way to work before too long how wrong you can be.

one of the immigration police produced a bunch of keys. you know the sort of keys that you see in robin hood films. he inserted the key in the iron door of the cell and gestured to the three of us to step inside. by now, i'm getting really worried. my thoughts were drifting toward my family back in england, and a more law-abiding family you could never meet. funny how all sorts of mental demons begin to play in your head at times like this. we were held in that cell for a further hour, just generally chatting and wondering what fate awaited us. there are several moments that i recall in this story when time stood still under the sheer weight of 'this abso-f*cking-lutely can't be happening to me' and the first of those moments came next. a copper emerges with a long chain of leg-irons, and he actually wanted the 8 farangs in that cell, including me, to put them on. after they were secured, we hobbled and shuffled the short distance from the immigration police station to the immigration detention center (idc), which is directly behind the immigration office. not in your wildest dreams could you ever imagine the degradation of having to do that in full view of the folks in soi suan phlu going about their daily lives, parents pointing us out to their kids. humiliation beyond belief.

the idc at that time had been featured in the international news. apparently, amnesty international had been campaigning to have the place closed down, and they still are to this day. i joined amnesty shortly after i was released from here. i've never really been a political person, but it fights causes that are worth fighting. but back to the story. the idc consists of an open courtyard with about 6 huge cells surrounding it. first of all you have to go through a processing system before you are incarcerated. we were divided up into three groups; farangs, guys from the sub-continent of india and pakistan, and burmese. that day the immigration had rounded up over 300 passport violators. we sat in that open courtyard for over an hour with the midday sun blazing down, while the thai police wandered around importantly, barking orders at anyone who so much as coughed. but they weren't really the ones to be feared. there were a couple of huge african guys who i later learned were in their for 10 years on drug charges and holding false passports. they had somehow been given the job of overseers by the thai police, who allowed these two schwarzenneger-like figures to carry batons and use them whenever they felt the need. watching these two guys strutting around with their psuedo-authority almost became the moment when i decided enough was enough. a little man inside me was screaming and imploring me to stand up and just say 'excuse me, but i'm british. i'm going to walk out of those gates now, and there ain't no motherf*cker gonna stand in my way'. but i sat down and remained silent.

an austrailian guy behind me could see i was starting to lose it and put a re-assuring hand on my shoulder. it's difficult in these kind of situations not to interpret that as a homosexual gesture, but i knew he meant well. eventually after being fingerprinted and weighed, we were taken to the cells. the 8 or so farangs were put in cell b, along with about 250 burmese and indians. a cell barely big enough for a 100. as it came to pass, all thoughts of sleep were out of the question. when 120 people sat down, 120 people had to stand up. that's how it continued for five days.

each prison cell was run by chinese mafia. they organized the cleaning, the distribution of food to the prisoners, and made any decisions such as when half of the cell's turn to sit down had arrived. i became quite friendly with the main-man, a chinese guy called kenny. he spoke excellent english and had lived in london for a number of years. it wasn't my place to ask him what he was there for, but i needed the guy on my side. the cell itself was third-world to the extreme. a small toilet block overflowing with [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) and excrement, and a totally window-less room with no indication of when night became day.

i learned valuable lessons in prison. lessons about how much every nationality can get along when their backs are truly against the wall. i talked politics with burmese, debated football games with germans, and laughed and joked with indians, arabs, and pakistanis. without their support i would never have got through it. i recall a thai guy approaching me, his hair shaved from having recently completed his monk hood. he basically wanted to bum a cigarette from me, but he reached out to me and grabbed my hand, and with an almost psychic sense told me that i would be leaving tomorrow. he was right, and the next day the british embassy had been informed by my boss, and they came to get me out. when the prison guard called out my name and freedom beckoned, all 260 people in that cell stood up and clapped ( a traditional prison gesture). it was an overwhelming moment that i will take to the grave. i was taken by police escort to don muang airport and put on a plane to singapore. i stank. i hadn't showered in 5 days, and the smell of prison hung all over me. i really don't know what the well-dressed woman in the next seat thought, but i was too busy tucking into the airline food.

later that evening, i was sitting in the merlion park in singapore. if you've been there, you'll know that at night the view is something else as thousands of tiny lights dance across the harbor waters. and i remember thinking about what freedom really means, and yes, i do remember tears streaming down my face. i don't suppose there is an objective to this story really. thailand lies about its visa overstay law. it says that you can pay a fixed amount for every day that you overstay, but what they don't tell you is that if the police catch you first, you're in deep shit. i've never forgiven thailand for what it did. the mental scars have never healed. 7 years later, i still get nervous when i have to go to the immigration office in suan phlu for even the most trivial reason.

on one of the last visits there, i chanced to see one of the black guys who had acted as overseer on the day i was imprisoned years ago. perhaps rather stupidly, i gave him a mouthful and then some. he stood there and took it. he just smiled, but perhaps i had exorcised one more demon. if you've read warren fellows book about his 12 years in a thai prison, he hits the nail on the head when he says that thai prisons are 'robbers of the soul'. they are not even worthy of being classed as 'third-world'. there are farangs rotting away in these places, and i'm not sure all of them deserve to be there.

Dinghy

09-30-06, 17:57

Now lets be blunt - SOMETHING he did aroused the suspicion (IRE?) of the immigration police. For that 1 day, they must have a REASON to come down on the "Poor unsuspecting arsehole" the way they did - so anecdotal evidence aside, while it is a good idea not to overstay, this represents the "hidden agenda" portion of enforcement.

Lovesnihon

10-01-06, 01:56

Whatever the case, Bangkok Phil certainly paints an almost surreal picture of what can happen if you do overstay. Let's face it, any rough looking lad in need of a few baht will do something to get it...

Unbelievable Story

LN..

Tiger 888

10-01-06, 02:47

... any rough looking lad in need of a few baht will do something to get it...

Unbelievable Story

LN..Be it that or not, as he wrote he even had an office to work.
Anyway such stories are necessary to remind us that things don't always go the smooth way, be it such an extreme or not.

Meaty

10-03-06, 08:02

Overstaying is Dangerous
day.

It was a Saturday morning in October about 7.45 am....I opened the door somewhat groggily to be confronted by half a dozen young Thai guys in plain casual clothes. ...."Immigration, passport", and they came into my apartment....I stood there somewhat bewildered as they proceeded to open drawers, check the clothes in my wardrobe, and flash a torch under the bed. I started to become somewhat angry when one of them grabbed my arms to check for needle-pricks. ... the head man flicked through the passport until he arrived at the visa page, looked at it carefully, and exclaimed "overstay, you come immigration".
I didn't bother reading any further, it's quite clear that this guy pi**ed someone off and that someone had him 'visited'. They kept looking till they found something, IMHO he was lucky he had overstayed, if they hadn't found something who knows what they might have planted to achieve their goal. Again, IMHO this is not something your average monger, who plays by the rules is going to experience.

JuiceSpike

10-03-06, 15:38

New Airport

I flew out on the first day it was open last week. My first impression: a big nice looking airport. A big accomplishment for Thailand and a much needed new facilities.

I arrived at the airport at around 4:00 AM and I found certain parts inside to be dark and with few or limited signs for directions. My airline had people holding signs for passengers with directions to the departure gate. In some places the atmospheric lighting works great but in others it looks like they forgot to put a light...

Looking at the detail construction of the airport it looks cheap and in a few parts not finished yet. It still looks great but you can tell that it was rushed or just not made with detail finish in mind. Also the structure material for the roof will in about 2 or 3 years look like shit and dirty. I think it will sag in some areas and will be really tough to clean up and maintain. Maybe not.

The taxi from Suk and soi 11 took 40 minutes to get there and the meter was around 250bt. I think the driver took the longer way but maybe not.

Freeler

10-03-06, 16:21

Juice,

"I think the driver took the longer way but maybe not."
Been had and afraid to admit it. Hehehe:)

Nice pics btw.

Seeko

10-03-06, 16:59

on my outbound flight from los on last sunday, i came across this article in the nation. it has already been referenced by another mongering newsletter...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/10/01/pda/national_30015084.html

published on october 1, 2006

as flight tg 401 touched down at the futuristic-looking suvarnabhumi airport on friday night, the inefficiency of this new bt150-billion facility took me and other passengers by surprise.

the impressive view from the outside, of architectural structures bathed in blue light, gave way to appalling design flaws and apparent mismanagement by officials.

"it's a new airport, so why did we have to board a bus [after deplaning]?" asked a fellow thai traveller from singapore.

less than two minutes later we were stuck in a bottleneck at the only escalator from the ground floor up to the first floor. we wondered why more planning wasn't put into such a crucial matter.

then after a considerable hike past a few duty-free shops, i arrived at the hi-tech immigration desk. it was speedy and convenient. but as i got through the counter and proceeded to find out where to reclaim my luggage, my eyes were dazzled by four flashing tv monitors with letters so tiny that anyone over 40 or with reading difficulties would have a hard time deciphering the messages.

after a few minutes of eye-straining search, i discovered that i had to go to carousel 18. but wait! when i got there, the overhead display said the luggage coming through belonged to flights from siem reap and seoul, not singapore!

there weren't enough luggage carts and it took me 10 minutes to get one.

so which computerised monitors should i trust?

i hung around with other passengers whom i recognised from our flight until one westerner finally got his luggage. "amazing," he said to me, as i asked if he was on that thai flight from singapore, to make sure that this was where my suitcase would emerge.

then there was a sign on a pillar next to the conveyor belt printed on a4 paper. "temporary toilet". the lack of enough toilets appeared to be haunting the new airport on day two.

but there was more travail to go through. the arrival lobby is too small.
people squeeze together forming a wall so you can't see if someone came to
pick you up.

then i couldn't figure out where to hail a metered taxi. there was no sign and i ended up having to ask for information at an aot counter. the woman there was pushing a pricey limousine service, but eventually caved in and told me to head one level down.

"but the queue down there is very long," she warned me. the taxi queue was actually twice, if not thrice, longer than those at don muang.

why? partly bad coordination and partly because this is a single-terminal airport. the taxi pick-up points must actually be fewer than at don muang, which has one domestic and two international terminals. and there was no proper sign telling you this is where you should wait!

while in line, two thai passengers complained to me. one, an elderly gentleman who flew in from brisbane, said he waited an hour and a half for his luggage to arrive. when he inquired about it with thai ground staff, they didn't have a clue as to how long he had to wait.

"it was a long walk," he said, referring to the mega-long terminal and hall.

another thai passenger said the exit gate at the arrival hall was simply "miniature", which didn't make any sense.

nobody seems to want to explain why this new gateway is not laid out better and more conveniently than the 92-year-old complex at don muang. i couldn't help wonder why aot has to force thousands of travellers to undergo such a trying experience.

in the first few days they may claim that many things are not functioning properly because it's still new. but the management's attitude was self-congratulatory even though they should be profusely apologetic and do their best to meet travellers' expectations.

i couldn't see or feel a sense of excellence and a service mindset from them.
suvarnabhumi may end up becoming just another expensive airport that's better to look at than to use.

perhaps a new management team that is more concerned and attentive to travellers' needs and satisfaction, comforts and convenience might improve things. a few executives deserve - not only to be shifted or reassigned - but fired.

pravit rojanaphruk
the nation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seeko

10-03-06, 17:58

here's my departure via suvarnabhumi last sunday (4th day after opening):

from sukhumvit soi 15, the taxi ride took 30 mins and 185 baht (+25 bt for tollway). it was around 10am on sunday, so not too much traffic. it took about 10 mins to get from soi 15 to the toll booths at motorway no 7 (the driver turned left onto soi 19, then, crossed over to soi 21/asoke, and right onto rama 9). my taxi averaged 140kph on the freeway, so it might take up to 45 mins at slower speed. :o

the departure area is easy to find, but there are no advance warning sign to indicate which entrance you should be dropped off. luckily, i was flying thai, so i knew in advanced that i'd be at #4. for other airlines, i've attached entrance sign photos.

check-in wasn't a problem, since there are plenty of counters. no issue with baggage weight (mine scaled 31kg). note: like other international airports, there is no baggage screening before the check-in counters (done internally somewhere else), so your tg can accompany you till you enter the entrance for immigration. ;)

for added security, you can wrapped your baggage in clear plastic sheets for 100bt each. this would prevent pilfering and bust-open luggage.

i did not see any electronic airport tariff dispensing machines. but, there was no line at the manned booth, so no issue here.

at immigration, there are more foreign passport lines than thai passport, but apparently, thai's can use any line, which causes delays for the foreigners. there were several groups of 10 each in front of me using the foreigners' lanes. and, they were all bunched up like lemmings, i.e. no waiting behind the red line--a security issue. i mentioned these facts to the supervisor and the stamping agent. (1) they stated that thai's can use any line. (2) they don't see it as a security issue to have someone look over another's shoulder. :(

oh, btw, i didn't see any of those cybercams, like at don muang. maybe they are hiddened, or haven't been installed, yet. more likely the latter case...

then, it's a long walk to your gate. if you only have 30 mins before departure, you'd better hussle. don't bother to shop/browse through the duty free stores.

the security screening is set up right before you go down to the 3rd level (for thai flights) or to other individual wings. here i faced the slowness of first-time traveling ladies who didn't want to take off their jackets and didn't remove all metal from their pockets, clothes, or bodies. simply stupid and not pay attention to the security attendants.

then, it's more long walk as you double-back to try to find the right stairway or escalator to get to your gate. :(

finally, you are faced with the stupidity in design of attempting to accomodate handicapped and wheeled baggage: 4 long ramps to get down to level 2. doesn't the designer(s) realize that by this point most travelers only have a carry-on/laptop, so no need for ramps. short staircase is better. and, the occasional handicapped/elderly persons can use the elevators. see photos...

summary: i'm not impressed at all with the new airport. yes, it's huge and modern. and, the growing pains (computer glitches, baggage system) are gone, but there are obvious design flaws to inconvient the travelers and reduce personnel flow. the thai's may feel proud of the overall design and construction, but they don't know anything about international air travel. sad...

seeko

Seeko

10-03-06, 18:25

The arrival area is funneled similar to Don Muang's. See photo.

There are long lines at the center/main public taxi pick-up area. However, when I was checking out the Airport Express Buses, I noticed a small scale taxi pick-up area. Not sure if it's for BKK or for other cities. I'll inquire next time...

The Airport Express Lines & Stops:

AE1: Petchaburi Soi 30/Pratunam, World Trade Center/Central World Plaza, Rachdamri BTS Station, Lumpini Park, Saladaeng/Rama 4/Robinson Silom, Montien Hotel/Patpong, Tawana Ramada Hotel, Plaza Hotel, Surawong Soi Kamjai/Manohra Hotel, Charoen Krung Soi 47/1 Silom Road, Lertsin Hospital, Central Silom/Holiday Inn, Silom Soi 26, Narai Hotel/Silom Soi 18, Sofitel Hotel/Soi 12, BKK Bank/Soi 6, Saladang BTS Station.

AE2: Petchaburi Soi 30/Pratunam, Platinum Fashion Mall/Amari Watergate/Pantip Plaza, Petchaburi Soi 20/First Hotel, Petchaburi Soi 10/Asia Hotel, Urupong, Sapan Kao, Thai Airways/Royal Princess Hotel, Wat Rachnatda, Democracy Monument, Royal/Ratanakosin Hotel, National Theatre, Pra A-Thit Road, Phra-sumen, Khaosan road.

AE3: Sukhumvit Soi 52-50/Onut BTS Station, Prakanong Market/Klongton, Eastern Bus Terminal/Ekamai/Soi 63, Thonglor BTS Station/Soi 38, Soi 34/Rex Hotel, Emporium/Prom-Phong BTS/Soi 24, Soi 20/Novotel Hotel, Soi 18/Westin Hotel/Robinson, Soi 10/BKK Bank/Ambassador Hotel, Soi 6/Amari Boulevard/Landmark, Soi 2/JW Marriot Hotel, Central Chidlom, World Trade Center/Isetan/Zen, Phetchaburi Soi 25/Pratunam Center, Phetchaburi Soi 35/BKK Palace Hotel, Soi Nana/Grace Hotel.

AE4: Victory Monument, Soi Rangnam, 99 Hotel, Phayathai BTS Station/Florida Hotel, Live Stock Department, Rachatewee BTS Station/Asia Hotel, Siam Discovery Center/Siam Center, Maboonkrong(MBK), Chulalongkorn University/Rama 4 Road, Mandarin Hotel, Bangkok Centre Hotel, Hua Lumpong Railway Station.

I haven't taken them, yet, but I'll soon. Standby...
Seeko

Phantomtiger2

10-05-06, 22:03

Member #2041

10-05-06, 22:28

Thanks Seeko for the info.
I havent looked at all the details yet on these new airport bus routes but at a glance it all seems same or similar to the old airport A-bus routes. Only thing is they up the price 50% as the old bus price was 100b and from the new airport its 150b. Just thats progress for you.
Only thing missing is the hours of operation for these buses (when does the last bus leave the airport) and how frequently they are running? So keep us informed Seeko or others who have taken these buses.
Cheers.

PT

Well it is a significantly longer trip. I think 150 Baht is pretty reasonable, all considered, although I'd probably rather spend 350-400 on a taxi.

Japan

10-05-06, 23:55

Meaty

10-10-06, 05:00

I am going to be in Ubon Ratchatani soon, for reasons unrelated to mongering--but I was wondering--has anyone been there since the coup? I have not been there before at all, and would appreciate some advice on how and where to find prime pussy there. Any bars, etc? In particular, is bareback sex available for farangs in Ubon? Thanks for your help!
The coup took Ubon R by total surprise, there were lots of street fights and bloody confrontations that never made the press, unfortunately, now that the military have full control here (and are still on the streets, i can see them from my bedroom window) the girls are not allowed to offer bareback sex, but i understand that BBBJ is still okay but only with COT, no CIM is allowed. I would advise you to avoid the scene here, its totally changed since the coup.

Petemcc

10-20-06, 14:06

Gentlemen

I know the immediate response may be RTFF, however as many of you realise, it is a huge database and it is not always easy to find answers.

By reading various threads, one gets a feeling for Thai culture and what is or is not allowed/tolerated, but what is the complete story?

I have gathered that loss of face, portraying the Buddha in a bad light, taking the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) out of the King, and many other things, are not the way to win friends and influence people in Thailand.

However, to most westerners, where basically anything goes- except open, safe, beautiful, fantastic prostitution- like in Thailand, there exists a problem.

Take for example tipping, and the funny way that you always get 40Bht somewhere in your change designed for a tip. I only understood this because I was with a BG and she told me that it was custom- and then the Korp kun ka/krap with the folded hands and bow came. In my first few encounters I kept the change because I didn't realise, because tipping is not common in the UK or Aus, and of course the Thais are too proud/nice/shy/relegious, whatever to make a fuss.

What's my point? Well, for countries such as Thailand- or indeed other countries, is it worth creating a thread about customs that is easily searchable? I am sure many people here can tell us about Thai culture, and let's face it, the story seems to be treat the girls well, and you get rewards. Knowing how not to upset them must be very important.

If there is a decent response, I will post this in suggestions to Jackson to see if it is worthy of a seperate thread not only here, but on other forums.

So what do you think?

Phantomtiger2

10-20-06, 18:47

Gentlemen

tipping is not common in the UK or Aus,

So what do you think?

Anywhere in SEA tipping is not common among the locals. If you dont tip at home then chances are you will not need to tip here -tipping is just a nice gesture as small change left over means alot to them but almost amounts to nothing for us (I mean general services and not P4P). So make them happy if service was good by leaving something=small change. Its really up to you.
Note:I always tip in LOS because its a habit I've grown up with --so its automatic for me, as everyone and everywhere at home almost everybody gets a tip.

PT

Finrod

10-20-06, 20:25

Old Thai Hand

10-21-06, 13:37

GentlemenI am sure many people here can tell us about Thai culture, and let's face it, the story seems to be treat the girls well, and you get rewards. Knowing how not to upset them must be very important.

What part of Thai culture/customs are you actually interested in? Are you just concerned about not "upsetting" the girls...you mean hookers? They are not exactly representative of Thai culture. So, I don't get your interest in the topic. Could you explain what it is you are eactly after?

BTW, here's a general tip for all those guys who walk in the bars and "wai" the staff and the girls: stop doing it. It's really not appropriate and you look like jerks for doing it.

Terry Terrier

10-21-06, 21:20

Zde

10-22-06, 02:57

Hello: I got an offer to fly to the following destinations:
Bangkok
Singapore
Tokyo
Bombay
Johannesburg
Nairobi
Sao Paulo
Table end
I was wondering whether I could get an advice as to what destination to choose. My criteria are as follows: since I live on a fix income I am looking for a reasonably cheap place, since I am disabled I am looking for a place which might be friendly towards people with disabilities, for a place with relatively low crime and cheap accommodation. I am looking for a place with low std rate and cheap service providers, I am willing to branch to other cities or countries from the destinations mentioned above so I am looking for a place which can be interested in a traveler as well. Thank you very much for your help.

Giotto

10-22-06, 04:37

Gentlemen

I know the immediate response may be RTFF, however as many of you realise, it is a huge database and it is not always easy to find answers.
...If there is a decent response, I will post this in suggestions to Jackson to see if it is worthy of a seperate thread not only here, but on other forums.

So what do you think?Petemcc,

Let's give it a try. I created a thread "Thai Culture and Customs". Feel free to start it up.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=521224

Giotto

Old Thai Hand

10-22-06, 05:20

OTH,

Pete may have hit on something IMO.

You cannot drive us moronic sextourists away from the Kingdom singlehanded, but maybe you can at least provide a little education inside a dedicated thread for those of us who hang out in this virtual cafe.

Goot ideah, mai?

I think it's a good idea too. I just wanted some clarification of what his point was...i.e. ways of respecting Thai culture, or just ways of not pissing off the hookers.

Petemcc

10-22-06, 08:15

What part of Thai culture/customs are you actually interested in? Are you just concerned about not "upsetting" the girls...you mean hookers? They are not exactly representative of Thai culture. So, I don't get your interest in the topic. Could you explain what it is you are eactly after?

BTW, here's a general tip for all those guys who walk in the bars and "wai" the staff and the girls: stop doing it. It's really not appropriate and you look like jerks for doing it.My reasoning is as follows:

Girls, whether or not they are hookers are Thai, and apart from the obvious- ie fucking men for money, probably pretty much follow their culture. The girls I was with did the bowing thing, and the respect to Buddah, and the pity for afflicted people bit.

When I am with a Thai girl, I don't think of her as a prostitute. perhaps I am a moron, or kidding myself, but I treat her like a normal human being, albiet one who wouldn't normally give me the time of day if I wasn't paying her.

That means doing normal things with her, like having a meal, or breakfast, or a drink, or walking around the markets with her. I have no problem whatsoever keeping a girl happy in the bedroom, but it's the bits outside that I am concerned about. Everyone accepts that if a girl is treated well, she will treat you well. I would like to be able to interact with Thai girls, before and/or after I fuck them, without unintentionally upsetting them.

Up until yesterday I thought tipping was part of Thai culture, and now I am informed it isn't, but when I am with a bar girl, does the act of me leaving a tip for someone make me a better man in her eyes and therefore possibly deserving of extra special treatment? I just don't know. I wouldn't go out of my way to impress a girl, but I certainally wouldn't want to insult one, or make her lose face in public etc. If a BG is walking with me hand in hand down the street- and obviously not my GF, if I give her a peck on the will that insult her, or make her lose face?

There are so many questions that I don't know the answers to, and I would have liked those who understand Thai culture to give us the benefit of their wisdom. I know there is a thread on Thai women, and perhaps my reply isn't making it very clear, but this goes beyond just Thai women. It is more about Thai people and how not to upset them, and the BG in your company.

Then there is the MB taxi driver who I had the altercation with- remember? In my culture if a taxi driver doesn't fulfil his part of the contract- take you to your requested destination, he gets fuck all. Clearly, from my experience in Thailand, Thais expect something for just taking part!

You may ask how that is related to mongering, well all of us from other cultures who go to Thailand to enjoy the country and fuck the girls also have to do normal things like get taxis, buy food etc. I apreciate that doing a lot og 'Googling' may reveal teh answers to some of these questions, but first hand experience from the preverbial horse's mouth is what I prefer. OK?

Also, what the hell does 'wai' the staff and girls mean?

Pete

Old Thai Hand

10-22-06, 10:04

Pete

The fact that you've already been in Thailand and still don't know what a "wai" is, clearly shows you need help. BTW. It's that funny thing Thais do with their hands when they greet you.

It's good that you treat BGs as human beings. That's only to be expected. But, to think that they are the same as other Thai women is a huge mistake.

OK. Some incidentals...
Thais tip, just not a lot. Also, I never give a taxi driver anything if he doesn't get me where I'm going. And, I'll rip him a new one in Thai, just for causing me trouble. Thais have bad tempers. Don't let anyone tell you all about face saving and how you shouldn't argue with them or lose your temper. Thais can be as hot-tempered as Latins.

The fact that you are walking hand-in-hand with a hooker marks her and you anyway in the eyes of Thais. Unfortunately, BGs have a "look" that instantly identifies them and therefore, by connection identifies you as a monger.
But, anyway, kissing in public is generally frowned upon, although lots of younger Thais will do a little peck in combination with the "sniff" thing that TGs do. My GF kisses me and does the "sniff" thing sometimes in public. But, somehow it's different. She doesn't look like a BG, so it rarely turns heads when she does it. It's hard to explain the difference. It just is.

Check out Giotto's thread. He created a Thai Culture board that should start to answer your questions.

SweetAndBitter

10-23-06, 10:02

Montecristo

10-26-06, 01:50

Hi!

Does it makes sense to buy a Digicam (Fuji Finepics/Panasonic FZ) in BKK? I know a electronic market in chinatown a few years ago with a lot of stuff and Pantip Plaza - but is it real cheaper? And what about guarantee things?

Thanks, SAB

You can find 6 megapixels and plus, from 7.000 baht,all around Bangkok who cares about guarantees for that price ?

When it brokes (if it brokes), you buy another one .

Player2

10-31-06, 12:27

Hi Guys :

While I am in BKK I also want to try other nationalaties like russians or Indians.

Where is the hang out place to find other than Thai's in BKK.

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Retired Army

11-01-06, 23:20

Hi Guys :

While I am in BKK I also want to try other nationalaties like russians or Indians.

Where is the hang out place to find other than Thai's in BKK.

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

CM2 at the Siam Novotel.

Nuevo

11-02-06, 03:08

1Ball

11-02-06, 12:22

Retired Army

11-02-06, 12:48

Can someone who understands currency conversions please shed some light on this for me?

I don't think anyone understand the process. All I know is it's a rip-off. That's why I recommend using an ATM to get THB. The rate is about the best you are going to get anywhere.

Piper1

11-02-06, 12:53

1Ball - exchange rates can vary due to supply and demand in a particular country. UAE Dirhams are not in demand in Thailand, so you get offered less for them. Better to exchange in Dubai, where both Dirhams and Baht are in demand (or hang on to them for next visit here). ;)

BTW - none of the exchanges at BKK airport had Dirhams, so I had to exchange my TB back in Dubai.
_____

PS - leave my personal banker out of this! (The only reason I haven't mentioned my "Giotto's Bank" story is out of concern that suddenly he'll find himself in the same sitiuation with 100 other guests!)

Brain666

11-02-06, 15:44

Can someone who understands currency conversions please shed some light on this for me?
I tried to exchange 2,500 AED (United Arab Emirates) into Thai Baht. I was offered 19,000 THB and some change. I thought that was much too low. i was expecting around 25,000 THB.
Here is my reasoning. I understand there is a difference in the buy and sell rate, but it shouldn’t be that huge.
1US$ = 3.6 AED
1US$ = 36 THB
( I am rounding off the numbers for ease of calculations.)
So, in essence, it is 10X exactly.

I took 2,500 AED, and came up with 694 US$
Then I took 694 US$, and converted it into THB, and came up with 25,000 THB.

Why would I be given only 19,000?
XE.com, by the way, shows that a direct conversion, not converting first into US$ should be 24,962 THB.
I went to 3 different money changers along Suk.
(I took my money back, and went to the Bank of Giotto).
Thanks G

1 Ball, according to your reports you come around in the world. However budget planning seems not to be your strengh. As Retired Army said, the direct cash exchange is a rippoff.

I thgought it is common praxis to pick the local currency from ATM's. If you have to much currency of a country you might not go back soon, then you should pay part of your hotel bill by such cash (and only keep what you need for Taxi etc.) before leaving the country. Never change back.

Thought this was common praxis.

regards

Brain666

who would never rechange his remaining baht as I will ome back for sure.

Sevastopol1

11-02-06, 17:34

1 Ball, according to your reports you come around in the world. However budget planning seems not to be your strengh. As Retired Army said, the direct cash exchange is a rippoff.

I thgought it is common praxis to pick the local currency from ATM's. If you have to much currency of a country you might not go back soon, then you should pay part of your hotel bill by such cash (and only keep what you need for Taxi etc.) before leaving the country. Never change back.

Thought this was common praxis.

regards

Brain666

who would never rechange his remaining baht as I will ome back for sure.
What chance do I stand withmy local currency!!!!!

Tiger 888

11-02-06, 22:23

Can someone who understands currency conversions please shed some light on this for me?
I tried to exchange 2,500 AED (United Arab Emirates) into Thai Baht. I was offered 19,000 THB and some change. I thought that was much too low. i was expecting around 25,000 THB.
Here is my reasoning. I understand there is a difference in the buy and sell rate, but it shouldn’t be that huge.
1US$ = 3.6 AED
1US$ = 36 THB
( I am rounding off the numbers for ease of calculations.)
So, in essence, it is 10X exactly.

I took 2,500 AED, and came up with 694 US$
Then I took 694 US$, and converted it into THB, and came up with 25,000 THB.

Why would I be given only 19,000?
XE.com, by the way, shows that a direct conversion, not converting first into US$ should be 24,962 THB.
I went to 3 different money changers along Suk.
(I took my money back, and went to the Bank of Giotto).
Thanks G
1Ball, the best rate you can get at Superrich. that is where all the small money changers change themselves. For the US Dollar they normally have a spread of 10 to 15 Satang, means they buy USD at 37.10 they will sell at 37.20. Call them for information.
With an "exotic" currency the situation might be not as pleasant.

Another place is Vasu on the corner of Suk soi 7/1. But with larger sums I have heard of scams there. So be aware.

A very nice tool is
http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic
there for today it says :
Thursday, November 2, 2006
1 Utd. Arab Emir. Dirham = 9.98844 Thai Baht

you can see the real rates between any currency pair at any given day in th past or today (even years back).

ThaiLearner

11-03-06, 00:30

ThaiLearner

11-03-06, 00:32

1Ball

11-03-06, 03:11

1 Ball, according to your reports you come around in the world. However budget planning seems not to be your strengh.
Brain, I am one of the lucky ones. I don't have a budget!.
So, I just stuck the money back into my pocket, and will use it next time in DXB, as I take out Wildcat for a romantic dinner, while Piper is in BKK, or Oz !
;)
But just to clarify, I had already paid for my hotel, when I was given the cash. So I really had no choice. I had actually asked for payment in US$, but the gentleman didn't have any. So I took the AED. Not a big deal really. Even though I don't have a budget, I am not 100% stupid!

Tiger, the rate you show is very similar to the one on XE.com. However, it just doesn't work out that way when you are in front of the exchange booth. They offered only about 7.85 or so.

Tiger 888

11-03-06, 04:14

Brain, I am one of the lucky ones. I don't have a budget!.
So, I just stuck the money back into my pocket, and will use it next time in DXB, as I take out Wildcat for a romantic dinner, while Piper is in BKK, or Oz !
;)
But just to clarify, I had already paid for my hotel, when I was given the cash. So I really had no choice. I had actually asked for payment in US$, but the gentleman didn't have any. So I took the AED. Not a big deal really. Even though I don't have a budget, I am not 100% stupid!

Tiger, the rate you show is very similar to the one on XE.com. However, it just doesn't work out that way when you are in front of the exchange booth. They offered only about 7.85 or so.
Since you don't seem to believe me, I just called Superrich for you and they give 9.8
They are located in the back alleys opposite of the World Trade Centre. For a small amount a bit too far, but in your case well worth it.
The Oanda page just shows how much the interbank real rate is, so that you can work out their markup.

Tiger

Fivebahtwiz

11-03-06, 05:20

First report ever, will do my best:

-Oct 11-17 Pattaya. Jasmine Hotel on Soi BJ off of Walking St. Good place to stay. Thought I saw Lily Thai on motorbike. Mongering good: bar fines 200-500BHT, LT 1000-1500.

-Oct 18-25 Patong. As always, stay at C and N Hotel (Great location, $, staff, clean, girl friendly). Best special massage: Wanida MP near Starbucks. Best daytime bar: the Shipwreck on Soi Bangla. Best burger: Aussie Burger at the Aussie Bar. Mongering very good. Fines 200-500BHT, LT 1000-2000. Great selection of beautiful ladies.

-Oct 26-Nov 1 Koh Samui. Green Guest House good. Best Music: Coco Blues Sexiest Girl in Thailand: Blonde #21 at the go go bar just west of Moby Dick (she finshed me off in less than 15 minutes including 2 showers). Mongering poor, girls not hungry. Will stay away from Samui.

1Ball

11-03-06, 09:10

To put a close to my little problem, I did call Super Rich. They indeed gave me a rate of 9.8. The little alley they are in, is behind the Bangkok City Inn hotel.
I went in there, and they gave me a rate of 8.3 !!!
I told them I had called earlier, and had been given a rate of 9.8.
They then gave me a rate of 9.8.

Moral of the story, if you are not 100% sure of all the facts, you will get screwed.

Thanks Tiger, for the tip.

Tiger 888

11-03-06, 12:46

1Ball

11-03-06, 15:04

thanks tiger, I got an extra 4,500 BHT.
of course, as I said earlier, I had already decided to keep the money, and use it at a later date. I need the AED for my romantic date with Mrs Piper1 ;)

But, I changed the money, and plan on blowing it tonight!

Piper1

11-03-06, 15:30

I need the AED for my romantic date with Mrs Piper1 ;) In your dreams buddy! :D (although she did mention you last night. I'm starting to get worried!)

Last night out on the town, a work/mongering pal asked me the same question you asked me in Dubai: With such a honey of a wife, why would I ever want to go mongering? When you have caviar at home every day, sometimes you feel like going out for fish'n'chips. And whenever travelling, one should always try the local exotic cuisine. ;)

1Ball

11-03-06, 17:59

In your dreams buddy! :D (although she did mention you last night. I'm starting to get worried!)

Piper, I am curious. What was the context of her mentionning me? Was it in the throes of passion, as she whispered....... " oh yes 1ball, you bad boy you"?
;)

Tiger 888

11-04-06, 03:15

Piper, I am curious. What was the context of her mentionning me? Was it in the throes of passion, as she whispered....... " oh yes 1ball, you bad boy you"?
;)Guys, please don't carry the Giotto's Lodge thread chit chat over here.

1Ball

11-04-06, 03:34

Tiger, all this happened in Dubai, not Livingstone's, so this is not Giotto chit chat ! this is Dubai chit chat, which is why it is in the Thailand thread ;)

Question for you cell phone people. I have an "orange" SIM card, and just realized it has an expiry date of november 17. I was going to top it up so it remain valid until my next trip, but forgot. When I return in January, after it has expired, can I top it up again, or will it be dead? Will I still have my address book intact, or will everything be gone? I am taking it out of the phone to install the SIM card I use in Indonesia.
thanks

Traveler1234

11-04-06, 04:18

Question for you cell phone people. I have an "orange" SIM card, and just realized it has an expiry date of november 17. I was going to top it up so it remain valid until my next trip, but forgot. When I return in January, after it has expired, can I top it up again, or will it be dead? Will I still have my address book intact, or will everything be gone? I am taking it out of the phone to install the SIM card I use in Indonesia.
thanks

If you top off your Orange card, it should extend term; at least in most other countries that is how prepaids works.

Ask G or someone to buy top off card (rub off to get pin number), pm your number to him and he'll top off for you.

If you wait till Jan, again depends on carrier; in most cases, it's dead but address book should still be intact. I would back up sim card address to your phone just to make sure!

You should be able to do the same from overseas but I assume you don't have customer service contact, etc.

Gaienmae

11-05-06, 10:21

Tuned in just now for my weekly dose of Stick, and it appears the entire site has been taken off air - and evidently not for technical reasons.

Terry Terrier

11-05-06, 20:35

1Ball,

Don't know if all the networks have the same policies in Thailand, but I've never had any probs with my Cheap Charlie DTAC sim card. On arrival, I just 'fill her up' and she's good to drive :).

Jatan

11-05-06, 20:36

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the content of the report was largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

Piper1

11-05-06, 20:41

Tuned in just now for my weekly dose of Stick, and it appears the entire site has been taken off air - and evidently not for technical reasons.Interesting - Coma Boy's morallydiminished.********.com is also off-air as of today. Who's next?

Buzz00

11-05-06, 20:54

I have always used 1 2 call sim cards that have eventually expired. All the info remains current on the sim as do SMS messages. Messages will be wiped out once you remove the card from the phone.

Dinghy

11-06-06, 01:02

Pattaya beach road -

Interesting thing though is that the beach road scene seems to be back up - like they were just doing the extensive patrolling for some media even in pattaya. At least there were significant numbers out there after 10pm saying "Halllooo"

Giotto

11-06-06, 06:25

Interesting - Coma Boy's morallydiminished.********.com is also off-air as of today. Who's next?Piper1,

just checked it - it is up again.

Giotto

Gaienmae

11-07-06, 05:15

Stick has been getting his ass kicked lately by notstickmanbangkok.com. Quite fun to read really. Besides, old Stick can't write English to save his life. Just another loser falang in BKK.hohum, thought the old Stick was getting rather full of himself in recent months. I read it mainly for the reader's contributions (have to get my titillation somewhere). Though I must say it gave me my first theoretical introduction to Thailand's fun side which I am now finally able to try myself.

Nhscotsman

11-07-06, 11:46

Hi,

I'm planning a trip to Bangkok in February/March and I'm curious what a good airfare would be. Right now I'm getting $900.00-$1000.00 fares from both Boston and New York. Is this a fair price or is this high? I'd like to think I could get a $600.00RT fare, but I may be dreaming too. Haha. You people see the rates all the time, what's the average fare and what's a good fare?

Thanks and I really enjoy reading all of your postings.

Have a great week!

Nhscotsman

Oyster Lover

11-07-06, 21:36

[QUOTE=Nhscotsman]Hi,

I'm planning a trip to Bangkok in February/March and I'm curious what a good airfare would be. Right now I'm getting $900.00-$1000.00 fares from both Boston and New York.

Try this link I just got a quote of $600 for Feb 1 departure SFO to BKK on EVA Air $655 on China Airlines. Return date was May 15.

http://www.asia.com

Capt JB

11-09-06, 04:52

In February you should be able to get a round trip direct flight from JFK to BKK for around $1,000. This is a non-stop 17 hour flight on Thai Airways and beats the hell out of flying to the west coast first then to Japan or Korea, changing planes and then onto BKK. I had rather pay an extra $100 and shorten the flight by about 7 hours. The Thai Airways flight arrives in BKK around 5 PM while most of the others get thjere around 11 PM to midnight. I have booked this flight for Feb. 1st.

[QUOTE=Nhscotsman]Hi,

I'm planning a trip to Bangkok in February/March and I'm curious what a good airfare would be. Right now I'm getting $900.00-$1000.00 fares from both Boston and New York.

Try this link I just got a quote of $600 for Feb 1 departure SFO to BKK on EVA Air $655 on China Airlines. Return date was May 15.

http://www.asia.com

1Ball

11-09-06, 06:10

Oyster lover, the Thai air website shows the non stop to cost 1156US$.

As Capt JB says, the extra 100 or so will be well worth it. 1 flight instead of 3, it is a no brainer.

Cheaptickets, and Orbitz are 1165$.

Have fun.

Nhscotsman

11-10-06, 01:25

lucien

11-10-06, 05:39

Other than the 7 or 8 hour saving by flying non stop NewYork to Bangkok, what is Thai Airways like? Are they decent or are they just another slap you in the seat, give you some nuts and a can of Coke type of airline?

NhscotsmanIts a great airline. I flew on them from Japan to Bkk, Really great service. One thing I love about international airlines is the uniforms they wear. Im from the US and hate the complete asexual style uniforms they have on most major arilines. But the Thai air service is superb. Its all about your comfort.

Naughty

11-14-06, 02:55

Khunk

11-14-06, 06:33

I haven't been to Phuket or Samui for about 12 years, although I've been to LOS about 10 times in that period.

Which of the islands or beach destinations would you guys rate the highest for hobbyists other than Pattaya, which I don't really like so much anymore. I'd rather stay in BKK than go there, but I want to get to a beach and still be able to pull some beauties without too much hassle.I was in Phuket in March and really liked it. The beaches are nice and the women were of good quality. Met several that were very nice. That would be my nod. Just make sure you stay near Patong Beach. Bangla Soi is where the action is. They have a Holiday Inn right by Bangla Soi.

Capt JB

11-17-06, 02:15

Other than the 7 or 8 hour saving by flying non stop NewYork to Bangkok, what is Thai Airways like? Are they decent or are they just another slap you in the seat, give you some nuts and a can of Coke type of airline?

Nhscotsman

Thai Airways is great. The seats seem to give you a little more room than those on Cathy Pacific and the service is 2nd. to none. Nice looking cabin crew. I flew JFK to BKK and back in February and have booked them again for my 2007 February trip. One plus is that the flight arrives in BKK around 5 pm and there was not that many at customes & imigration. The Cathy Pacific, Northwest, & one other airline all have jumbo jets arrive between 11 pm & midnight causing long lines at imigration. One other plus is on a direct flight there is a lot less chance of your bags getting lost.

The food on Thai Airways is good and you can always go to the galley for snacks ect. It will save you several hours of flight time and one change of planes as well.

Buzz00

11-19-06, 21:56

I don't know if this is the right place but anyway.

http://travel.news.yahoo.com/b/rolf_potts/rolf_potts10387

1. Americans: Ignorant. Loud. Oblivious to surroundings. Insincere.

2. French: Rude. Bigoted. A trifle out of touch with reality.

3. Germans: Humorless. Rule-obsessed. Unfriendly. Stubborn.

4. Israelis: Rude. Cheap. Arrogant. Cliquish.

5. Canadians: Exactly like Americans, but more soft-spoken, more polite, less ignorant, and twenty times more boring.

Evil Penivel

11-20-06, 17:20

I don't know if this is the right place but anyway.

That's just one guy's opinion, seems about 20 years out of date.

Evil

Evil Penivel

11-20-06, 17:38

Try this link I just got a quote of $600 for Feb 1 departure SFO to BKK on EVA Air $655 on China Airlines. Return date was May 15.

http://www.asia.com

Problem with the prices on www.asia.com is that they don't include taxes and fees, which amount to $242 for the EVA flight on the dates you specified. Total price for SF0-BKK-SFO would be $900. Also, until you actually try to buy the ticket, you don't know if that price holds. Asia.com often says in the final booking and payment step that no seats are available at that price and suggests a higher price.

If you can get ar/t from the East Coast for under $1,000, you are very lucky. Right now, best all-inclusive prices seem to be between $1,100 and $1,200, at least for reasonable travel dates.

Evil

Samu Ray

11-21-06, 02:44

Are those prices one way? round trip?

Fred Gold

11-25-06, 08:53

Well, I have had some interesting experiences to share regarding meeting and dealing with a thail gf.

I joined asiabynight.com and asiafriendfinder.com in hopes of 'meeting' a friend prior to leaving for the land of LOS. I found that I received MANY more rsponses from asiabynight BUT the girl i finally met up with was a friend of someone at asiafriendfinder.

I had high hopes for one from asia by night until I found out that she lived in her uncles house with her sister..... her uncle was away for a year or so, and she lived on a military base. For the sake of my physical wellbeing, I decided to NOT meet her and her sister, regardless of how much she wanted to meet me.

Another from asiafriendfinder responded back saying she was not available to meet me, but a friend would be available. We exchanged pictures and chatted via phone and email. We met at my hotel and from there we traveled together for a few days.

It took a little time, but I learned the importance of being patient and understanding when we had language problems.

One problem was I like a/c she didn't. I won that one.

She had two notebooks in whcih she had both thai and english expressions. she really wanted to impove her english. In her book I founbd some interesting expressions, 99% were typical touristy daily expressions that were good to know. Then there were others, such as "my vagina is sore, no more please" or "no condom, no sex" or "your penis is too big" and yes, she was VERY tight. I did suggest a few additions to her book.

I assume many Thai girls have books like this. I'd be interested in any feedback.

It was difficult to break some of her habits. When I wanted to go some places she INSISTED on going by bus, that taxi was too expensive and she refused to let me waste my money. I was shopping at a market and found a nice scarf for a friend back home, perfect colors, I let her do the negotiations (I always let her negotiate and am certain I saved some money). The price was 600 thb. I felt it was very reasonable considering the quality and colors of the scarf. I went to buy its, she pulled me away and yelled at the person telling me how the person was a thief and I should never buy anything from them. So much for a nice present.

When I tried buying her presents she refused. Said they were toooooo expensive!!! Can you imagine an American girl saying that?

Other experiences included after getting back to our room, I would take off my shoes. Within moments my shoes would be neatly placed in the closet. A few minutes later I'd take off my socks, and yes, you guessed it, my socks were neatly folded on top of my shoes. Can you imagine an American gf doing that LOLOL

While going out to dinner one night she ran into an old friend she had not seen in a few years. While the two were chatting I chatted with her friend's Aussie husband. I told him some of my experiences and he asked if she was my first thai gf. I told him yes and he assured me that they were all that good. He has been married a few years and she still does everything for him. Amazing!!!!

I guess i wasn't in Kansas anymore.

Not sure what to conclude, other than I had a great time. Only downside was being with only one girl... life could have been worse.

I tried to take a few ISG quality pixs, but she refused. Please don't ask for contact info, she asked me not to give out her mobile numbers. Amazing, they all seem to have 2 or 3 cell numbers.

If I sound a little rambling, sorry.

Traveler1234

11-25-06, 09:52

Terry Terrier

11-25-06, 10:48

Are you a yob or a chav? :)

Can you recommend a nice GF hotel on or near Soi 33?

Freeman 418

11-25-06, 12:07

Interesting info.. I'm interested in the success with asiafriendfinder, though never tried asiabynight. I HAVE tried adultfriendfinder, which personally I find a complete waste of time.. I have had much higher % success with simple yahoo, or friendster type websites.

As for the military base thing.. this is not as scary as it sounds.. I had/have a thai gf whose sister works in a medical job in a military base in BKK, and they are pretty easy going.. anyone can go in/out by car, and it's not what you would think.. in any case if you were accompanied by her, there would be no prob., and if on your own, nobody really questions what a lone farang is doing walking around the permissable area of a complex.. but i guess it all comes down to following your gut.

I joined asiabynight.com and asiafriendfinder.com in hopes of 'meeting' a friend prior to leaving for the land of LOS. I found that I received MANY more rsponses from asiabynight BUT the girl i finally met up with was a friend of someone at asiafriendfinder.

I had high hopes for one from asia by night until I found out that she lived in her uncles house with her sister..... her uncle was away for a year or so, and she lived on a military base. For the sake of my physical wellbeing, I decided to NOT meet her and her sister, regardless of how much she wanted to meet me.

If I sound a little rambling, sorry.

Dinghy

11-25-06, 18:29

EVA and China air both add the fees and taxes to the "advertised" price. They usually amount to $200 or so.

Depending on where you are, you can get better deals by going thru the various Asian travel agents in your area. If you can't find one, take a look at a Sunday paper from LA, NY, SEA or SFO (maybe even LAS - but the "local" Asian population is pretty limited compared to the others) travel section and there should be lots of ads there.

Fred Gold

11-25-06, 19:42

United has a sale, from east coast to Singapore (close to bkk) 796usd including all taxes and fees!!! Not bad dep dec 5 or 6 return dec 11 or 12.

Evil Penivel

11-25-06, 23:07

I have trip EWR-BKK-EWR on EVA confirmed at $1,304 in Evergreen Deluxe, including all taxes, service charges, etc. Outbound second week January, returning two weeks later. Best I could do on any carrier in economy from NYC in that time frame was $1,050 and I'll gladly pay an extra $250 for the comfort of Evergreen Deluxe. Plus EVA has a great departure time from EWR - 11.15 p.m., which means I have a good chance of sleeping quite a bit of the flight (natural tiredness is the best sedative). arrival time in BKK is also good, around noon local time.

Evil

Traveler1234

11-26-06, 04:24

Member #2041

11-30-06, 04:20

Freeman 418

11-30-06, 06:33

Yeah I noticed the Baht going up.. surely it has to hurt their export market??! I noticed Vietnam just slashed the price of their Dong to make exports more competitive.. the Thai economy is going well, but if their exports become too expensive, they will loose out to China, VN, etc.

On the monger front, yeah those little increments make a difference!! lol..

Got here yesterday, and the Thai Baht has been climbing like crazy against the dollar. Can't even get 36 Baht to the dollar anymore - this sucks! Last time I was here, I was getting 41. My $17 BJ is costing me 20 now!

Jeff46

11-30-06, 09:28

Got here yesterday, and the Thai Baht has been climbing like crazy against the dollar. Can't even get 36 Baht to the dollar anymore. This sucks! Last time I was here, I was getting 41. My $17 BJ is costing me 20 now! Interesting question. May be some expert here can advise us. From my side I can ad that in 1996 the baht was 25 US then after the financial crasch in Thailand 50 US then back today 36. The new baby currency the euro started 36 today 47. 5. I am not a expert but looking some price in Thailand and living cost and considering the minium weidge of Baht 6000. The average salary of a good mid range job in Bangkok Baht 30. 000 TO 40. 000 for thais and considering that the half of the population 30 Millions thais leave on minimum 6000 per month this thai baht is to high and some insiders consider again a crash in the thai baht as 1996.

As I said I am not a expert but something is wrong with the Thai Baht. But what? Somebody know?

ThaiLearner

11-30-06, 14:10

Got here yesterday, and the Thai Baht has been climbing like crazy against the dollar. Can't even get 36 Baht to the dollar anymore - this sucks! Last time I was here, I was getting 41. My $17 BJ is costing me 20 now!

It was 39bht in October when my American friend changed his $. I was getting around 69-70bht for £ and we still are.

If you don't go then it will give me more girls to have fun with.