2002 Sao Paulo Reports [Archive] - InternationalSexGuide

J Wadd

05-21-02, 07:25

(Here's a synthesis of all my old reports from the archive section. I hope they are of use.)

SAO PAULO:

The main areas of street-walkers, quick-time sex hotels (with girls lounging in front), pick-up drink night clubs (called Boites) is just behind a a little to the left of the Sao Paulo Hilton -- as you face it.

Street walkers abound, but aren´t that appealing. Price was about 30-40 USD for an hour (or so), not including about an extra 10-ish USD for a hotel. Oral w/o condom no problem.

The Boites (here) are dire. About 20USD entry-minimum drink charge, another 20USD for a use-fee and a room for the girl, then the girl´s price (about 50-70 USD)/hour. I guess it´s not that expensive, but the places are dirty and the girls fat and dirtier.

I didn´t try the sex-hotel (which, in this case, is not a hotel-by-the-hour, but a hotel that actually stocks women in front on the street and in the lobby) here. It´s within a block of this area further away from the Hilton and looked clean enough -- and the women I saw were cute (6-7.5) Its name is Caliph Hotel, or something, and sports a suitably Arabic decor.

Club Aquarius is right here, too. Just behind the Hilton. Didn´t try it (too jet-lagged). Nothing starts there until 11-midnight. Looked nice and low-hassle. Probably your best bet.

There is also a massage parlor around here. About 70USD for one hour´s massage + sex. About 6 girls that I did not see. Clean and polite.

The two Sao Paulo sex institutions, "Cafe Foto" and "Bahamas" Club, are WAY OUT of town. About a half-an-hour´s cab ride into the anonymous suburbs. They were both closed at 830pm (both, as Aquarius, open late).

Foto is a take-home lounge-disco environment, sorta like Help Disco in Rio. Bahamas is either, with rooms above, etc. There is a cafe-restaurant right up the street from Bahamas that had a lot of classy working girls lounging around.
__________________________

The entrance to Cafe Foto is 158 reals (not a misprint). It includes two drinks. It also covers the exit fee if you decide to leave with a girl.

On any given night, Foto offers about 150-200 women. Most are pretty good looking; a few are drop-dead. All seem to quote 500 reals are their price for 2 hours. None seemed too eager to negoitiate.

Bahamas has a similar entry fee, but offers rooms for sex on site. It's close-ish to Foto.

These two reports don't even scratch the surface. If you pick up a Sao Paulo nightlife guide, you'll see adds for literally hundreds of venues, many of them as high-end as Cafe Foto. It would take pages of reports to even describe half of the Sao Paulo scene.

Incidentally, the main street scene seems to be (if your looking uphill towards the Hilton) to your left here on the only main (6 lane) street underneath all the highway overpasses in this area. Sorry I don't have a name. It should be easy to find. Just keep the Hilton about 5 blocks to your left as you walk uphill in this area, heading straight.
________________________

Re. "Hilton": Weeeel, the Hilton is on kinda a slope, her back facing the down-angle. This "backside" opens up into a fairly seedy area -- i.e. lotsa rip-off bars, tranny streetwalkers, indies, muggers, "quick-time" hotels -- all the low-end fun stuff. There's actually one (supposedly) fairly large venue one block down directly behind the Hilton that's relatively reputable. Can't remember the name but you can't miss it.

Foto and Bahama are about a 30 min. cab ride from here. Both absolutely impossible to find for a visitor (regardless of address). Take a cab. Many cabbies, even (in my experience), won't know them.

I think it's [Foto] the best place in town (if you've got the ammo to cover the prices). There are manymany other high-end clubs that boast of competitive selection. Be wary. After you pay the 75$ U.S. to get in, it's a well-dressed horse-show. Persevere toward Foto.

Note: Foto has no sign. It's a large pale-yellow building sitting behind a gated semi-circular driveway. It's easy to miss. It'll be on your right on a large (medianed) one-way street. Have fun.

_____________________

...Not sure. The area is fairly seedy [the backside of the Hilton] -- sorta like an American skid-row. There's another area to the lower-left (with your back to the hotel) that has more clubs, but is even more dangerous. Paulo is tough to figure out; pick up a copy of the ubiquitous "nightlife" pamphlet and you'll see that there're HUNDREDS of sex clubs in town.

Happy Hunting,
JWadd

Member #1465

05-21-02, 16:35

OFF2GOLF
Birosca was 7 or 8 reais from Hilton. So its very close. I don't have the adress. Will tell you the name of the Samba place later.

Hulk

05-21-02, 18:45

Could anyone suggest a four or five star hotel close to Cafe Photo? I've stayed at the Hilton in Sao Paulo before and it is a long ride out to Cafe Photo.

I'm traveling a lot to Argentina on business lately and would like to go to Sao Paulo over a weekend strickly for hobby purposes so I'd like to stay as close to Cafe Photo as possible.

Kinesics

05-22-02, 02:22

To: Sabio

Thanks for your help on Rio board.

Following up on your questions..

Cafe Photo: Attitude of girls are vary. I had great success with a girl from Cafe Photo. I treat women in the clubs with respect and kindness. This goes long way and real long way. I'm certain that you would know this. Must try place!

Fazendinha: 10% might be 9's and 10's and majority would in 7's and 8's. When I do business in Campinas, this is the place in my iteniery. Great shows, good food, a great selections of women with willing to please attitude. R$150 will do a women. If you offer this, not much negotiation is necessary.

Contatos: I ordered one and different one showed up at the door. That was my first try and last. Based on my experiences with my brazilian friends and subordinates and girls, this might rather be exception than norm.

Romanza: One notch below Cafe Photo but still great place to hang out. Louise speaks good English and took care of me when I was there. Worthwhile to check it out.

I have not visited any massage places but will visit them when I go back Brazil in late July for mini vacation.

Hope this helps.

J Wadd

05-23-02, 06:31

I think we're doing a pretty good job with S.P. If you look at this board and the archives, most of her info. is pretty well described. A S.P. novice could hit the town pretty well.

Buuut, I'm looking to make the transition into ex-pat status, and would like to ask a few of her true veterans a question or two:

DOES THIS HYPOTHESIS WORK?:

Assuming I get a multiple-reentry 5-year visa -- crossing the border every three months to re-new and ne-enter -- can one hope to live fairly large on 2000 USD per month?

I want to save up about 50K and move there for two years, keeping to a monthly budget of about 2400. I figure rent and basic expenses are about 5-700 a month, leaving the rest for play.

Is this right? What hidden costs are there for a person looking to do this kind of extended-but-temporary relocation?

I'm saving now for another 2 month stay next Spring, with the longer 2 year stay planned for 2005 or 2006.

Thanks for any thoughts any of you have in advance.

Happy Hunting,
JWadd

Prosal

05-23-02, 08:30

Jwadd, excuse me to answer beside your question, but why chosing SP (if you made your choice already), SP seems more expensive in term of accomodation and general cost of life than the rest of the country....not talking of attitudes of many SP chicks, a little arrogants (anyway some i met).....if i had a choice to do for living in Brasil (i wish!:)), i'd consider to live maybe in Belo Horizonte, third town of the country in population, nice countryside, close from Rio, more 'human' than SP, and surely friendlier and cheaper...
It's just a thought, maybe Curitiba is perfect...(waiting for Max advices !)...

Tomb

05-23-02, 21:30

Jwadd:

Nice plan. Couple of points, some already mentioned in the Rio forum:

Keep a reserve, at least enough to keep you afloat for a month and/or buy a plane ride home. Find a "safe" place to put that reserve money (American bank? Easily wireable? or if you have a GOOD friend whereever you are living?). Keep this money in dollars. You never know what crazy sh-t the government might dream up (Collor plan of 1990 being the mostnotorious) and you'll be left high and dry with no money. Be prepared.

$2000 is fine, as you must know, most families get by on $500 or so (and that's middle-class). But it makes a big difference if you are trying to live in Rio/Sao Paulo or somewhere else. I'd reccomend somewhere else. Speaking of whioch, the Nordeste in general and Recife in particular are very expensive to live in "decently" (nice apartment, car, decent food), although it's very cheap to live there on rice and beans in a hut (been there, done that,lotsa fun, but I don't think that's what you are looking for). How about Floripa as a nice balance of everything (one of your own suggestions, remember?). It's somewhat chilly in the winter, but so what? Grab a *catarina* and head up to the mountains ;-) I love the Barra da Lagoa village,check it out! Of course, you'll need a car...

Thanks again for all your help via email,

Tom B.

J Wadd

05-24-02, 04:12

...Thanks, guys. Of the cities I've visited, I'd be most sure of a consistent good time with the scenes in Recife and Sao Paulo. Of those two cities, only Sao Paulo seems diverse enough to be fun for non-sex, too. Maybe I'm just deluded with my Sao Paulo views.

Curitiba seems like it'd be more expensive than Recife. Dunno. Is rent for an adequate apartment really 700 USD/month? Seems like a lot.

Belo Ho. is an option -- but it's so under-reported here and I've never been to it. Maybe the thing to do is to take a trip to the country, visit Belo and then decide between S.P., Recife and Belo. Belo might have a monster scene that no one knows about: Bars, Clubs, SWs, Termas, etc. I have no idea.

Buuut, too, it might be like those large -- and comparatively lame -- scenes to be found in Belem, Fortaleza and Salvador. I know these cities are to the north (and therefore unlike Belo), but they me similarly so-so to each other.

Sigh. I need to take another prepatory trip to answer this.

Any other advice? Thanks in advance.

JWadd

Tomb

05-24-02, 15:14

JWadd:

What Brazilian city you want to spend two years in really depends a lot on what you like to do in life (besides mongering.... no matter what we all like to fanatsize, you can't do that 24/7/365).

If you like big city life, Sampa definitely has the most action. Except for a beach, Sao Paulo has everything you can think of (and Guaruja is just a hop away). It's on par with any other international city (NYC, Milan, London, Paris, Tokyo). If you are teh type of person who would enjoy living in Mahattan, then you will love Sampa (personally, I prefer to just visit). Then again, it's also expensive, crime-ridden, horrendous traffic, etc. etc..

Of course, the same holds true for Rio (except that it DOES have a beach) and BH, They are just less "internationally" cosmopolitan. Both have just about anything you'd want in a big city. Rio probably has more crime than SP, BH has less, but all are dangerous. Dunno about the "scene" in BH, but it does have plenty of culture, music, arts, etc. The attraction around BH are the historical towns (Ouro Preto, etc) and the "country" lifestyle (imagine a brazilian Texas).

If I had to compare these cities to cities in the US, I'd say that Sampa is New York, Rio is LA, BH is Chicago. Continuing that analogy, Salvador is Boston (as a matter of fact, they are officialy sister cities), Porto Alegre is Philly, Brasilia is Washington (of course), Floripa is Charleston, Goiania is Denver, Recife is Miami (without the Cubans), Curitiba is an idealized Houston, Vitoria or Belem are San Francisco.

Despite my comments below about relative prices in these cities, I'm sure that you can carve out a reasonable lifestyle for $2000/month in any of these burgs (including your "play" money, of course). The real question is still, what do you plan to do in the other 23 hours of the day? And, let's be honest, what are you going to do when you get tired of pros and settle yourself down with a local "namorada" or two (or three)? Personally, I hate big cities. If I had $50K and a spare two years, me and a surfboard would be in Itacare, Bahia (check it out, www.itacare.com.br). Finding some cutie to warm your bed shouldn't be a problem anywhere (except Pelotas, RS, hahaha). Then again, nobody said you can't spend 6 months in one city, 6 months in the next (I did that for 3 years).

One last point to touch on - pratical matters. Renting an apartment, getting a banking account, buying a car, buying on credit, getting a phone, and all those pratical things are a royal pain in the a-- in Brazil as it is, and practically impossible without a CPF and a RG number. Check this out: http://www.bootsnall.com/cgi-bin/gt/samericatravelguides/fortaleza/jul00fortaleza.shtml for some idea of what you are in for. You apparently were fortunate enough to have your employer take care of all this while in Brazil. I always stayed with friends and just paid my share of expenses to them, borrowed cars on semi-permanent basis, etc.. That maybe your best solution - make friends! Of course, it'll be hard to bring pro's home, but you shouldn't do that anyhow - that's what motels are for....

Best of luck, and feel free to email me with any more detailed questions (we're getting kinda off topic for the WSG forum).

Abraco,

Tom B.

Saint

05-24-02, 16:42

I just visited Buenos Aires, Argentina. Going to Argentina from the US you don't need a visa. I do know that you need a Visa to go to Brazil from the US. Does anyone know if you need a visa to go to Brazil if you are a US Citizen in Argentina going to Brazil on vacation?

I'm headed back down to Buenos Aires in December and I wouldn't mind stopping in Porte Allegre or Sao Paulo if I have time but I don't want to get a Visa if I don't need one.

Thanks in advance to those that respond.

Dcrain

05-24-02, 18:20

Saint, I am not absolutely sure, but I believe you still need the visa. Brazilian embassy told me they charge Americans for Brazilian visas because America charges Brazilians for American visas. So it appears to be a tit-for-tat thing. I don't believe it matters what country you enter from if you have a US passport.

You can email the Brazilian embassy to be sure. They took 3-4 days to answer my questions.

http://www.brasilemb.org/

asiaman

05-24-02, 18:44

Visas are required based on the passport you hold, not where you are arriving from. Brazil always requires visa for U.S. passport holders.

Saint

05-24-02, 20:51

Thanks guys. That's what I thought but I was having a brain fart. I am so tempted to fly down there for the long holiday weekend. If the flight wasn't so darn long I would.

Haven't been to Brazil yet but hope to soon. Thanks again.

Johan

05-25-02, 07:20

visa is required for all U.S. passport holders. you can mail your U.S. passport to the visa section of the nearest brasilian embassy or consulate. it usually takes up to one week to process your visa. expedited service is available at no additional charge (my experience in 1997, not sure if this policy is current). the expedited service takes 1 day. however, if you live outside the city where the consulate/embassy is located, it may take much longer since you cannot personally visit the embassy to process the visa application.

to get a tourist visa, you need to file an application form (available from the embassy), provide a copy of your credit card, , visa fee, your airline ticket and two passport size picture and of course your passport. you may want to request a five year multiple entry visa.

Kinesics

05-25-02, 21:17

To: Sabio

What you were informed about Fazendinha is fairly close to my experience. The show begins between 9:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. and some strippers are quite good. 20 minute interval is more liberal side.

I was told the room is rented hourly based at least during eveing. I paid R$30.00 per hour but I heard the published rate was R$40.00 in March 2002.

The room is clean, simple and roomy with a shower stall. The room has a multi-position seater that is specifically designed for different intercourse positions. Instructional diagrams are posted on the wall for maximum use and fun.

They provide the shuttle services to/from local hotels in Campinas. I have not used the services but seen people shuttled back and force.

This is the first place to visit when I get to S.P. on 29th of July.

By the way, you have exceptional writing skill as I read your postings on Rio board - adequate details, logical and smooth flow and topic transition, proper balance of own opionion vs. attempt to be objective.

Kinesics

05-27-02, 00:57

To: Sabio

When I visit S.P. and Campinas for business, our Brazilian subsidiary arranges my transportation - airport runs and Campinas-S.P. runs. His rate is R$140.00 from Campinas to S.P. Centro for my last trip in March 2002. He drives a mid-size (in US standards) Chevy (clean and air-conditioned) and would be in mid 50's. He does not speak English but extremely nice guy and has been always flexible to accomodate my schedule. Just wanted to give you a reference point if you plan to use a car service. If you need his number, I'll be more than happy to provide it to you. If you don't speak Portuguese, you may have to put someone in middle for interpretation.

Saint

06-05-02, 04:13

I read this the other day online. I had such a good visit to South America last month I'd like to try some other cities. Is there really a sense of this much danger there? Or is this an exaggeration?

SAO PAULO, Brazil (AP)-- Michael Klein, a 52-year-old executive known as the Home Appliance King, switched off the lights in his cavernous office, took a private elevator to the gusty rooftop of his fortress-like corporate headquarters here and caught his evening ride across town -- in a helicopter.
Beefy bodyguards guided Klein into the dimmed cabin of his midnight blue Agusta A119 Koala. Within moments, it lifted off, joining other airborne limousines darting over the hazy skyline. Klein is one of hundreds of new helicopter commuters in Sao Paulo, the world's fourth-largest metropolis, where the rich and powerful soar high above exploding urban ills.

En route to his mansion in Alphaville -- a walled city where the privileged live behind electrified fences patrolled by a private army of 1,100 -- Klein quietly stared out the window. His pilot clipped low over the honeycomb-like slums and clogged highways below. More than halfway through a nine-minute commute, the copter grazed over a cluster of inner-city prisons. A squad of machine-gun-toting guards stood near a perimeter wall, their gaunt faces squinting upward as Klein's copter buzzed by.

"The perspective is different from up here," remarked Klein, a graying hulk of a man and executive director of Casas Bahia, one of Brazil's largest electronics retailers. Over the din of the blades, he told a reporter that "it even looks beautiful sometimes. Up here, however, it is safe. Down there -- ." He paused, staring across the metal and glass horizon. "Well, it's another story."

Sao Paulo -- a city of 18 million, populated by the fantastically wealthy and the severely poor with little in between -- is, by some accounts, a vision of future urban life in the developing world. As homicide and kidnapping rates have soared to record levels, civilian helicopter traffic here has become what industry executives describe as the busiest on Earth. Helicopter companies estimate that liftoffs average 100 per hour. The city boasts 240 helipads, compared with 10 in New York City, allowing the rich to whisk to and from their well-guarded homes to work, business meetings, afternoons of shopping, even church.

It is, sociologists here say, a sign of the way urban society in Latin American's largest nation is changing. Amid rising crime and overpopulation, the rich are retrenching into hyper-insulated lives.

In this sprawling nation of 170 million, sociologists call it the price of social inequity. Brazil has one of the most marked disparities of wealth in the world, with the richest 10 percent of the population controlling more than 50 percent of the wealth, while the poorest 10 percent control less than 1 percent. The disparity is particularly visible in Sao Paulo, a financial and commercial capital where many of Brazil's richest people live and work.

One result is city life dominated by fear. The homicide rate in greater Sao Paulo, South America's largest city, has more than tripled during the 1990s, to about 60 murders per 100,000 residents, compared with 7.4 in the Washington metropolitan area and 7.8 in New York. Already 63 kidnappings have been reported this year in Sao Paulo, up from only 15 during the same period last year, according to police statistics. The surge in abductions has produced a cottage industry of plastic surgeons who specialize in treating wealthy victims who return from their ordeals with sliced ears, severed fingers and other missing body parts that were sent to family members as threats for ransom payment.

Despite a lackluster economy, a $2 billion-a-year security industry is thriving across Brazil. Brazilians are armoring and bulletproofing an estimated 4,000 cars a year, twice as many as in Colombia, which is in the midst of a 38-year-old civil war. A wealthy Sao Paulo businessman, who spoke on the condition his name be withheld, said he allows his daughter to boogie at nightclubs only under the eyes of a commando turned bodyguard. In a city where the wealthy are known for ostentation, many are now buying low-profile economy cars to fool kidnappers and thieves.

"We have become prisoners in our own homes," said Ellen Saraiva, the elegant wife of a construction magnate, as she sat in her tasteful living room in a heavily guarded building in Sao Paulo's fashionable Jardims neighborhood. After a series of high-profile kidnappings on nearby streets last year, she and her husband paid $35,000 to bulletproof their understated gray Volkswagen. The armoring cost twice as much as the car.

"I pray to God every time I leave my building," she said. "I live in fear for myself and my family. One of my daughters is studying abroad right now, and as much as I miss her, it makes me feel at peace to know she is not here living through this nightmare."

Sao Paulo experienced an industrial boom over the past century, luring millions of poor Brazilians from the destitute northeast to settle here. Most traded destitute rural lives for urban misery, piling into ever-growing slums that have become dens for gangs dealing in drugs, kidnapping and arms.

Many of the wealthy have responded by moving into guarded, walled communities such as Alphaville. Only 7 1/2 miles from the city center, Alphaville is home to 30,000 of Sao Paulo's most privileged residents. It has three helipads and four entrances and exits, all monitored 24 hours a day.

Inside the compound, visitors are recorded by cameras at guard checkpoints in residential zones. In the communal areas, children can attend well-guarded schools and enjoy afternoon sports on fenced-in fields watched over by Alphaville's black-clad security guards. At night, on "TV Alphaville," residents can view their maids going home for the evening, when all exiting employees are patted down and searched in front of a live video feed. The local gym, which specializes in self-defense classes, is called CIA. To enter the local shopping center, customers must first pass through a guarded gate.

"The elite have made a decision. Instead of looking to better Brazilian society in general, they are abandoning it and finding their own personal protection behind guarded walls," said Teresa Caldeira, a noted Brazilian anthropologist and author of the book "City of Walls: Crime, Segregation, and Citizenship in Sao Paulo." "The rich are retrenching, restricting their lives in incredible ways and living their lives in an increasingly paranoid fashion."

Carlos Polacco, a Sao Paulo sailboat dealer, calls his decision to move his family to Alphaville in 1998 an issue of survival. The family bought its elegant, nautical-themed home here after the Polaccos' grown son, Rodrigo, was kidnapped while driving in the city. After he faked a heart attack, his abductors stripped him of all but his boxer shorts and threw him from a moving car.

"This is not about sealing yourself away from the rest of the city," said Polacco, who enjoys sailing to ports across the Atlantic seaboard. "But the violence has forced us to change our lives. When I thought about the chance of losing my son, I realized that we had to do whatever was necessary for our protection. This place gives you a chance to exhale."

A recent study by Veja, Brazil's largest newsmagazine, found that the number of Brazilians living in walled communities doubled to 1 million over the past five years. Sao Paulo has more than 300 such communities.

Heloisa Leuzinger, 40, an English teacher whose husband is a banker, moved into another closed community just beyond Alphaville about 18 months ago. As a woman who grew up in Rio de Janeiro and revels in urban life, she worries that her two young children "are growing up in a bubble."

"They go to school here, they play here, their friends are here," she said. "When we go into the city, the older one sometimes asks, 'Mommy, why is that man begging?' or 'Why do those kids live on the streets?' I try to explain to them about the social injustices, but I worry sometimes that they are living sheltered lives.

"But I have no choice but to risk that," she continued. "Their safety comes above all else."

The helicopter craze here started in the early 1990s, initially in response to safety concerns, but also to frustration with traffic. Public transit is woefully lacking -- the subway system is far smaller than Washington's while serving a population four times as large -- and highways are clogged and narrow.

As organized crime in Sao Paulo has increased, with the rich almost always the target, helicopters became a way to safely travel across town. Owning your own helicopter, however, is only for the wealthiest residents. The most basic models cost more than $400,000, and more lavish ones run $2 million and up.

But "helicopter collectives" have popped up. At Sao Paulo's Helisolutions, more than 100 members share the costs of purchase, maintenance and pilot time on a fleet of copters. It brings the price down to a one-time fee of $40,000 along with monthly expenses of about $1,500.

Klein uses one of his family-owned company's two helicopters. He hops in for daily commutes, trips to the company's distant warehouse and excursions to business lunches in the city, where nearby helipads are sometimes easier to find than a good parking space. Convenience is one reason, but safety more so.

"Here in my building, I know I'm safe," he said. "At home, I'm safe. But once I leave, I need other ways to have peace of mind."

Johan

06-05-02, 05:21

my friend. You worry too much. As a regular tourist, if you mixed in, dress down, no watches, no money, not going into dangerous areas to buy drugs, you are pretty safe. i say, as safe as you would be in NYC or LA. key is, most crime victims in brasil are rich folks who live and work there. the fact that they live full time in the community expose them to all these crimes against the rich, the wealth. also, many of these killings are drug related. so calm down. i am amazed that many gringos who have no problem walking down main street, cow town suddenly got so nervous. relax. crime happens for a reason, i.e. money, wealth, properties, drugs. if you have none of this, it's a waste of the criminals time.

Prosal

06-05-02, 09:13

Saint, thanks for this informative article which is a good photography of the state of mind of the richest brasilians....
But i agree with johan, all this doesn't concern the tourist, even if you have to keep in mind that SP is surely with Rio and Salvador the unsafer city of Brasil.
Situation is very different inside the country, both South (Curitiba, Porto Alegre) and West (Brasilia, Goiania..), where for us as many beauties can be found.

Saint

06-05-02, 15:32

Thanks Johan and Pro. Worry....um..Yeah I worry a little. I just wanted the opinion of those that have been there. I do find it kind of strange though when people post that big cities in Brazil are no different than any big city in the USA. The murder rate in some cities in Brazil are astronomical. Compare the murder rate of New York vs. Sao Paulo.

In any event, I appreciate the feedback. I love women probably more than anyone and would go that extra mile to meet them. I didn't post this to scare anyone. I only posted because I think it's important to post all factual sides of things.

Good luck all.

Saint

Member #1465

06-05-02, 21:18

For Saint.
I'm a regular visitor to Sao Paulo. I am very much interested in the nice girls and places where I can find the girls. I normally stay at the downtown Hilton hotel. That is very close to lots of "dangerous" areas if I believe everything I read and hear. Its also close to lots of bars and Boates and lots of fun. I have been to many of the outdoor bars having beers with the locals and with the working girls and nothing have ever happened to me there. On the other hand a Saturday lunch time I was walking at the center where a lot of people were walking and shopping and I was robbed by some guys. One of them jumped up and put his hands in my pockets and grabbed everything I had in the pockets. Some others were looking out for him I think. I started screaming and he stopped and throwed some money on the street so I stopped and picked it up but of course it was not all but he got away. Nobody was helping me of course. Did that stop me from going back to Sao Paulo? No. I still love the city and the girls there. Last time I spent 6 days with my half pro girlfriend going to restaurants, bars and boates. She also brought me home to her family in one of the suburbs where I would never have gone by myself (I normally rent a car). It was a place where poor people live. It was not a Farvella but one step above that. I had a wonderful time there too and they were very fiendly and treated me very well. Was I scared of doing this or did anything scary happen? No of course not. (she is black and I'm white)
This inf just to show that its possible to have a good time in Sao Paulo whithot being scared. Just be careful.

Saint

06-09-02, 17:52

Again, not trying to scare anyone...Just posting an article that was in an online newspaper article that I read. Even if some of you say these "things" don't apply to us tourists I still think it's good to read them and get a mindset of what some people in Brazil have to go through. Good luck all and be safe.

'Pay or Die' in Brazil

Kidnapping is on the rise in Latin America, fed by the falling economy. Bodyguard services and sales of bulletproof vehicles are booming.

SAO PAULO, Brazil -- Sergio Bezerra sat on the sidewalk a defeated man, the prisoner of two young gangsters who were letting him take a breather after keeping him locked for hours inside the trunk of a car.

The sun rose and the neighborhood around him stirred awake. His kidnappers told him to keep his eyes trained on the ground, but Bezerra could hear footsteps going past, the men and women of the slum, or favela, heading to work.

"Good morning," they called out, "bom dia," as if it were a normal thing to see a business executive in suit and tie in their favela, being held at gunpoint. Dozens of people walked past. No one was brave enough to call police. Bezerra isn't angry with the people of the favela. He understands the fear that kept them from helping him. He understands, too, that kidnapping has become something almost normal in Sao Paulo, as much a part of the fabric of life in favelas as it is in the high-society gatherings where people exchange kidnapping horror stories.

"You get together with friends at social events and people say, 'Such and such just married off his daughter, and such and such is kidnapped, and such and such just paid a big ransom,' " said Bezerra, a 42-year-old banker. "We live in golden cages, surrounded by bodyguards, wondering if the kidnappers are watching us."

Last year, 240 men, women and children were kidnapped in Sao Paulo state, which surrounds South America's largest city and is the epicenter of a kidnapping epidemic that has seen outbreaks in other Latin American cities, including Buenos Aires and Mexico City.

A regionwide economic crisis--which has increased the ranks of the unemployed and hit hard at police budgets--appears to be feeding the crime wave. In greater Buenos Aires, home to 11 million residents, one person is kidnapped every 36 hours, according to a study by the daily Argentine newspaper Clarin. Most are released unharmed after a few hours, the victims of what are known as "express kidnappings."

In Sao Paulo, kidnapping prevention has become de rigueur for the city's elite. Private citizens employ 3,500 bodyguards. About 15,000 bulletproof vehicles transport executives, politicians and family members around the city.

Bezerra had no bodyguards or armored sport-utility vehicle when he fell into the hands of a large kidnapping band, a group of at least a dozen criminals operating with the ruthlessness and secrecy of an Al Qaeda terrorist cell.

For 11 days, he was an object with a value, his price set by Sao Paulo's kidnapping market. Fear, family love and the duration of the kidnapping were all part of the final business equation that determined his ransom, which his brother paid in daylight on a Sao Paulo street corner to more than a dozen criminals armed with submachine guns.

Bezerra, a divorced father of two, is an executive at Bicbanco, a regional bank owned by his family that posted $11 million in profits last year. He is a shy, unassuming man with long eyelashes and a tall, lanky physique and didn't think of himself as a target. "I lived a very quiet life," he said.

He was driving home, after a busy Wednesday with clients, when three men in police uniforms ordered him to pull over on a crowded avenue. It was the beginning of a surreal journey into a nether world of cruelty, violence and absurdity.

One day, a blindfolded Bezerra would overhear the mother of one of his captors arguing with the teenager: "When your father gets home, I'm going to tell him what you're doing!"

After a few days, Bezerra came to understand the businesslike logic behind even the more demented aspects of his kidnapping. For example, only once did his captors threaten to kill him--just before they put him on the phone with his brother.

They cocked a gun to his head. "They wanted me to sound completely destroyed," he said. The fear in Bezerra's voice when he talked helped drive up the price of his ransom. Once he got off the phone, they left him alone, blindfolded on a lumpy mattress, where he would spend up to 20 hours at a stretch.

Sergio Bezerra's kidnapping was an ordinary one by Sao Paulo standards, garnering no headlines during his captivity and a single magazine interview after his release. A handful of the city's most prominent kidnapping victims have paid ransoms reaching $1 million. Bezerra's likely was a fraction of that amount. For reasons of personal safety, he declines to say how much.

According to police, an increasing number of Sao Paulo's kidnapping victims are middle-class residents who pay $15,000 to be freed. During a recent typical day, eight people were being held by kidnapping gangs: four men, three women and a 15-year-old boy.

"Eight are not so many when you stop to consider that there are almost 40 million people in the state of Sao Paulo," said Saulo de Castro Abreu, the region's secretary of public security. "This is a problem we are beginning to get under control."

De Castro was appointed in January, with a mandate to get tough on kidnappers after the notorious two-month abduction of a prominent advertising executive last year. De Castro has since broken up several kidnapping bands, including one led by a pint-sized criminal whose band, or quadrilha, often pulled off two or three abductions in a day.

"They started robbing freight trucks and banks," De Castro said of the kidnapping gang. "But when that dried up" because of increased security measures, "they started taking people."

The criminal bands have their origins in the political abductions of the 1960s in Brazil, Argentina and other Latin American countries. Since then, kidnapping has been a crime fad, coming into fashion every decade or so, dying out in the face of police crackdowns, then reappearing.

In Mexico, kidnapping has once again reached the peak levels of the 1990s, with 200 to 300 cases reported in the last 12 months. (The exact number is uncertain because many people refuse to contact the authorities.) The victims include high-ranking police officers and the relatives of soccer stars and movie actors.

In Sao Paulo, kidnapping came back into vogue two years ago. Only 19 people were kidnapped in the state in 1999. A year later, the figure had jumped to 267. The criminals had learned that taking humans hostage was infinitely safer than robbing banks--and, when done right, it could be just as profitable.

"The most organized bands will operate with 10 to 20 people," said Jose Jacobsen Neto, president of the association of private security companies in Sao Paulo. The abductors operate in cells, dividing the work into separate tasks: One group researches potential victims; another pulls off the capture; others hold the victim and collect the ransom.

"The different units will communicate with each other on cell phones or on the Internet," Jacobsen said. "One unit doesn't know who's in the other. So if one is captured, the others will be safe."

Bezerra's abductors operated that way. The head of the kidnapping band was an educated, well-spoken man. Separate teams abducted and released him. The tedious work of guarding him fell to teenage criminals, most of whom had never met before. Bezerra spent hours listening to them get acquainted, trying to outdo one another with stories about their exploits as "bandidos."

Bezerra was following his usual route home in November when he was abducted during the bright late afternoon of a Southern Hemisphere spring. The three "police officers" who pulled him over were part of a band of kidnappers, although Bezerra didn't realize that at first.

"We're arresting you for receiving stolen automobiles," one of the men said. Something didn't seem right about the three, Bezerra thought, but because they were pointing guns, he didn't have any choice but to obey as they handcuffed him and led him to their car.

They ordered him into the trunk, forcing him to bend his 5-foot-11 frame into the smallish space. "If I had known this guy was so big," one kidnapper said, "I would have gotten a bigger car."

Bezerra spent an hour inside the trunk as they drove back and forth across Sao Paulo's notoriously traffic-clogged streets. Finally, the car stopped. The kidnappers took Bezerra's cell phone and called his brother.

The brother contacted the police. From that moment on, the Bezerra family's actions would be guided by police negotiation experts. The family filed no formal complaint--and told employees at Bezerra's bank that he had taken a vacation--so that the story of the kidnapping wouldn't appear in the media. News coverage drives up ransom demands.

The police offered another, odd piece of advice: "Don't pay right away. Wait a few days." Why? the family asked. "Because if the kidnappers see that you pay $100,000 in two days, they'll think you can pay $200,000 in four days and will ask for more."

Any rescue by the understaffed Sao Paulo police was out of the question. "It's either pay or die," Bezerra remarked later.

The kidnappers took him to a small basement room in a cinder-block favela home, where the only furniture was an old bed with a dirty, frayed mattress. He spent three days there, often blindfolded, guarded by groups of young men.

"The people who are guarding you are adolescents; they are 18, 19 years old at most," Bezerra said. "They have a desire to prove to themselves, and to the people that hire them, that they can kill."

One of his young captors told him, in chillingly direct language, "Look, if I get to kill you, it's good for me, it's good for my reputation."

On the third day, Bezerra heard the leader's voice again, instantly recognizable because he spoke a more articulate, educated Portuguese than his underlings.

The leader wanted to talk about Bezerra's ransom. He knew that his captive had a medical degree and addressed him as "doctor," although Bezerra had long ago given up any notion of being a physician. The kidnappers also knew facts about his family life, work habits and the financial details of his small bank.

Bezerra estimates that it must have taken them a month to gather so much information. But there was one thing they didn't know, and Bezerra thought that it might work as ransom-reducing leverage. "You got the wrong guy," he said. "I'm not even a real member of the family. I'm adopted."

The kidnapping leader mentioned this the next time he talked with Bezerra's brother. By now, the brother had learned from the police to play it cool: "You're right, he's not my real brother.... So listen, call me back in 30 minutes," he told the kidnappers. "I'm on my way to work now, and I can't talk."

The leader started to query Bezerra about his finances. The money in his checking account wasn't enough. The problem, Bezerra said, was that most of his assets were tied up in real estate that was hard to sell because of Brazil's economic crisis.

"Yes, yes, I know," the kidnapper said, sounding a rare note of empathy. "I've invested in real estate too."

Later, the young underlings put him in the trunk of another car and took him far away from Sao Paulo. He spent seven days in a windowless room from which he could hear cows mooing.

"We're going to send you back by mail," one of his captors announced finally. They began an execution ritual that involved driving him to another location and clicking a gun near his head. Then they stopped. "We're going to give you one more chance," one of the captors said.

They put him on the phone with his brother.

"I was going to die five minutes earlier," Bezerra recalled. "I wasn't in any condition to speak."

Finally, he managed to sputter: "They're going to kill me. Give them what they want."

On the 10th day of Bezerra's ordeal, his brother made the payment in a Sao Paulo neighborhood, facing 16 men with machine guns.

The next morning, the kidnappers turned friendly and chatty.

"You know why we did this, right?" one asked. They launched into a series of explanations about needing money. That evening, they put him back in the car; when it stopped, they told him to stand up and walk straight ahead and not look back.

When the car had driven away, Bezerra took off his blindfold and found himself on a darkened road. He was free. But before he had much time to think about precisely where he was, he heard a motorcycle approaching. The sputtering engine sounded familiar--it belonged to one of his kidnappers.

He had become the target of a "kidnapping within a kidnapping." Some kidnapping bands are so large that one group splits off and tries to snatch the victim right after he's released, to collect a second ransom.

Bezerra hid in a ditch near the darkened roadside. Finally, the kidnappers left. But he still had one last indignity to suffer. A pack of dogs chased him. He climbed up a utility pole to get away from the animals, staying there until daylight, when it was safe to come down and try to find his way home.

When he reached a taxi stand in a nearby town, one driver turned away. After 11 days in captivity, Bezerra looked like a wandering ghost, unshaven, wild-eyed and shallow-faced. He finally got home that evening.

His former wife had told their two daughters that he had been on a business trip to Japan. But as soon as the girls saw their gaunt father, they knew that it was a lie. Everyone in the family is guarded now, 24 hours a day.

Since his ordeal, Bezerra has spent a lot of time thinking. He holds little rancor toward his kidnappers and even feels a bit of pity for them. "These people won't have long lives," he said.

From behind the bulletproof windows of his car and the security doors at his apartment, Bezerra sees people who have never been kidnapped go about their lives the way he once did. They window-shop; they take long walks at night. "Are they crazy?" he thinks. "Don't they know?"

P.S. Oskar, thanks for that informative post.

Jackson, I don't know if there is a better place to post these kind of posts. I didn't see a General Info section for Sao Paulo. Feel free to delete it if you feel it's off topic.

Tomb

06-10-02, 20:52

Saint:

Jeez, what a depressing post! Unfortunately, the article is %100 accurate in describing kidnappings in Sampa, but.... where does it apply to our fellow forum members? Answer is, it doesn't. These gangs research who they will kidnap for weeks. We won't be in Brazil for weeks, these gangs are after big, easily obtained money.. they know they won't get it from us, even if we are gringos (how the hell are they going to negotiate with an American family)? And, not that the US government will come storming in to save your ass if you do something stupid in Brazil, kidnapping an American is definitely more risk than these gangs want to take on. As the article pointed out, the kidappings are strictly business.. and kidnapping forieng tourists is bad bussiness. Botom line, Sao Paulo is not a nice place to live - hasn't been since about 1950. On the other hand, let's be realistic, if Sampa had an equal distribtion of wealth, then the girls wouldn't be "working the night."

I meant to write this post last week in response to your first postings, but let me try now. Real risks to us "travellers" in Sampa: #1 petty holdups/pickpockets/petty mugging. This happens all the time and to anyone. You are walking down the street, someone runs into you from behind and in the confusion stick his hands in your pockets and rips you off. Or simply points a gun/knife at you and takes your wallet. Or sticks a gun in your open window while you are driving along and tells you to hand it over. Or a small gang boards a bus and robs everyone, or enters a restuarant and ditto. Yes it's more prevalent in Sao Paulo than in the States or Europe, but it happens here too. What are your chances of this happening during your one or two week long stay? Very low. It might happen once in a lifetime of visits to Brazil. Yes, it's a pain, but hardly life or livelihood-threatening. Do as the Brazilians do. Don't carry large amounts of cash or credit cards, have a "decoy wallet" with a bit of money in it ($20 or so in reais) just for handing over to the crooks. Be inconspicuous - don't use flashy jewelry (or any at all), wear a cheap watch, dress like a Brazilian, not American (i.e. no flowered shirts!). Be aware of your surroundings and who is around you. In restaurants. sit at teh back ,facing the front and be aware of the rear exit (sounds liek a bad western, don't it?) Although these kinds of crimes may appear totally random, in actuality the criminals are scoping out heir victims and going after the easiest prey. Usually, just walking confidently (walk tall!) and like you know were you are going and what you are doing is enough to make criminals look elsewhere. Use common sense and you will be fine. (BTW, don't carry a gun, or try to fight back if you are robbed! There is nothing in your pockets that is worth getting killed for, is there? If there is, then leave it a home!). Speaking of common sense, as a "fellow traveller", your most vulnerable moment is when you are walking out of a bar/boite with a gatinha on your way back to your hotel room... you obviously must have cash, so you are a target, and you are very distracted... simple common sense - don't walk back to your place, hop in a cab! That kind of thinking ahead will keep you safe in Sampa, just as it would in New York or Frankfurt or anywhere else.

Your next biggest vulnerability is while getting cash from the ATM machines (after all, if you are not carrying large amounts of cash, where are you goign to get more?). yes, US ATM cards work in Brazil, and they give excellent exchange rates.. it's not worth it going down there with a wad of dollars anymore. Again, when using ATM's, be aware of your surroundings.. use the ATM's in malls, or find out beforehand which ones are considered safe (Brazilians have the same worries). If possible, go with a buddy to watch your back while you make a withdrawal. If alone, face outwards to watch your own back while the machine is clicking and whirring.. only face it to type in your request. Most have mirrors so you can see behind you. Don't count your cash, shove the money in your wallet and GET OUT FAST! Lastly, consider opening a seperate bank account in the States with only your travel money in it, so if you DO get jacked (gun to your head, withdraw all your money), your not hurting your main bank account. Of course, you'll need some way to get "emergency money" in case that happens. Your chances of any of this happening are low, but be prepared and aware.

Lastly, the absolute worse that CAN happen to you, and the absolute worst thing that is probable. (I hope this makes sense.. as in the worst that can happen is that a nuclear bomb falls on your head, but the worst thing that probably can happen is that you get hit by a truck... either one is within the realm of the possible, but the truck is way more probable). The worst possible is that you get killed by some lunatic in a holdup... happens here in the US too. On the other hand there aren't any drive-by shootings or madmen opening fire in the McDonalds in Brazil, so dont' worry about it. Another worst possible is you get specifically targeted for death as a tourist. Happened this year in Fortaleza to abunch of Portuguese bussinessmen - they set up a sex tour with a local portuguese expat, who met them at the airport with a van, took them to Praia do Futuro, got them "likkered up", killed them, took everything they had and buried them in the sand (he was caught three days later). Horrible yes, butthey (the businessmen) were dumb. They set up a time and place to meet someone that they didn't know, while practically advertising that they were going to be loaded with cash! I don't mean to be callous, but they reallly were not using their common sense. BTW, that's why I would be wary of using any of these services that advertise that they will "guide" you in Brazil. You can get a guide when you get there! Why let them know you are coming? If you feel you want to set up a guide beforehand, use some common sense, don't give them a date, tell them you'll phone them when you get there. And then phone them after you've checkedout the scene yourself.

OK, on to the most probable worst thing - "blitz kidnappings" or, as they called them in the article you posted "express kidnappings" (in portuguese, sequestro relampago). A variation on carjacking (happens at ATM's also) - criminal spots a likely target, jacks their car, makes them drvie to ATM's to make maximmum withdrawals, makes them go into jewelry stores, etc, to run up their credit cards with loot (at gunpoint, hidden in a jacket!), steals everyting they have, dumps them (usually naked, but alive) on some outlying road, takes the car. The criminals have no way of knowing that you are a gringo, so you are just as vulnerable as the next guy. In fact, moreso becuase you are hanging out at "rich men's" clubs, their prime hunting-ground. Again, realistically, your chnaces of it happening are very slim. As usual, if you aren't stupid, you will survive this. Start talking English fast and terrified (this won't be hard). They'll probably just dump you then and there. Otherwise, do what they tell you to, and if you are suing a decoy wallet, decvcoy bank account and decoy, low-limit credit card, your damages won't be too high. Better yet, avoid the whole mess by travelling exclusively by taxi.. I've never heard of a taxi getting jacked (no guarantees).

Well, that's it. Yes there are dangers in Brazil. You can't be a fat, dumb tourist. But your not going there to take snapshots and visit Sugarloaf are you? So use your head and you'll be fine.

Abraco,

Tom B.

Fat Bastard

06-10-02, 22:17

I'm a Buenos Aires and Rio regular and will start the Sao Paulo trips soon. Can anyone please direct me to a good massage that will end in a HJ or BJ? I'm looking for more than a "massage parlor" where the only thing she knows how to do is rub lotion on my back before she rolls me over for sex. And I don't mind an older woman either. Good massage with relief at the end.

Sabio had asked this about a place called FranceBel. Any words or wisdom about this particular establishment?

Thanks

J Wadd

06-10-02, 22:29

Fat Bastard: Check the archives section for this year. There was a lengthy run on S.P. massage parlours about 3 months ago. It'll answer all your questions.

As for security: Great repsonse. You should post it in the Rio section to give everyone the heads-up.

HH,
JW

Saint

06-10-02, 23:05

Tomb,

GREAT post. That's why a post like that one I posted (while not probable) is good to read on the board. It causes posters to post valuable tidbits of information like you presented.

Thanks for taking the time to post. Hopefully I'll be posting a report in the near future from Brazil. I promise no more articles....LOL.

Saint

Johan

06-11-02, 03:51

too bad, brasil does not have our second amendment. everybody should carry a gun and ......

on a serious note. guys, don't let this take it off proportion. let's face it. you are a gringo w/o family, usually alone and single in brasil, the kidnapper is wasting their time (sorry to say) to invite you for private coffee. all they are targeting are established business people who live and work in brasil, somebody with asset and family in brasil. kidnappers are in this for easy money, gringos ain't worth the trouble. it's all economic.

also, in terms of tourist getting hurt. most of these cases are drug related as the guy is out there attempting to buy drugs etc. if all you do is to spend a few weeks in brasil and go after some pussies, the worst you would expect is some petty street crime. but then, if you run around in a tang top, short pants, the petty thieves know you are a poor gringo on welfare. they have better things to do than to bother you.

so calm down.......

Tomb

06-11-02, 23:55

Just following up on my last post....

First of all, my apologies for the gawdawful typos and organization, I was writing in a hurry and very tired.

Anyway, I want to respond to Johann. Whatever you all do, please DO NOT carry a gun in Brazil. Leave aside the question of how you are going to obtain a gun in Brazil... you can't carry yours to Brazil on the plane, and you can't legally obtain one as a non-citizen, so you'll have to deal with the same criminals that you are trying to AVOID in the first place, and then you'll be breaking the law, big-time (to quote a certain US vice-president). Brazilian prisons suck..... Assuming you have this hypothetical gun, what will happen when you are held up? Same as here in the States - you reach for your gun and the criminal who is pointing his gun at you will plug you. What if he is just holding a knife to your belly? Let's assume you can pull your gun out without getting stuck. What happens next is that his two partners, who you didn't see, simply shoot you. To make matters worse, a large portion of the holdups that happen in Brazil are comited by street kids - adolescents who don't know the meaning of life and death and have nothing to lose. They won't kill you for no reason, but don't give them a reason either. In Brazil, kids under 15 can't be prosecuted for adult crimes, so gangs use adolesents to do their "dirty work." People have been killed by 12-year olds. As I wrote before, their is nothing in your pockets worth dying for (or killing for either).. if there is, leave it at home.

That being said, I agree with Johann (and others) that you should not exagerrate the risks in Brazil. In 30 years of traveling back and forth to Brazil, and 5 years of living there, the only things that ever happened to me is that someone broke the side mirror off my car and I once let a guy into my house to give him some food and he proceded to swipe a few things that were lying around in the foyer while my maid prepared a plate of left-overs for him. Call me crazy, but I'd rather be ripped off once in a while than stop being charitable. My father had a watch stolen off his hand once.. he was riding the trolley in Lapa, RJ when a kid latched onto his watch, trying to break the wristband and take it. The band didn't break, but the trolley was about to go over a bridge (with the kid hanging over the side by my Dad's wrist).... so he opened the band so the kid could get away. That's the kind of thing that usually happens...shitty, but makes good small talk later on. Yes, the big cities have gotten much more dangerous, and the influx of drugs have made the big-city favelas into war-zones (that's why Brazil's murder rate is so high). Most people in Sampa and Rio expect to get robbed at least once a year... but you won' t be there for a year. There are horrible stories in the news every day, but Greater Sao Paulo has 20 million people (!) and Greater Rio has 12 million, so shit is bound to happen - i.e I think that the present statistic is that there are 8 people being held for ransom in Sampa on any given day.. horrible, but 8 out of 20 million?? Your chances of scoring free pussy are much greater... worry about that!.

In general, just use your head. Stay OUT of the favelas. And don't do drugs (OK, you can probably find a safe way to get some weed if you ask around... I don't partake, but I don't consider MJ a drug either). Other than that, you're chances of becoming a "statistic" are very, very low, especially as a tourist. Honestly, you are much more likely to get hit by a car on your way to the airport in the U.S..

So enough security talk, enjoy your trip!

Tom B.

peter panochito

06-12-02, 03:35

greetings gentlemen. I will be visiting s. paulo 16 days. does anyone have any reports on club w? also, when I was last there, december/jan, i saw a huge billboard for a place called club millenium, but when i asked around, no one knew where it was or what the lowdown is on that place. My friends and I are planning on visiting cafe photo, and romanza for sure, and maybe bahamas. the other clubs on nestor pestena are not to my liking, in my humble opinion, the quality of the girls there is a lot lower than romanza, bahamas, etc, etc. I did read the article in the brazilian playboy about club w, but i think that R$600 for a you brazilian ladies company for an evening is a little steep. i was hoping that someone here would have some different experiences from this place. after reading here and checking the website on fracebel, i'm thinking of going there also, but i'm somewhat hesistant because of the mixed reviews, and the lack assurance of FS. Although there are some incredible looking ladies on their website.

Hulk

06-16-02, 01:29

I'm reposting a question I posted about a month ago. Sorry about the repost, but I didn't get any answers and I could really use one:

Could anyone suggest a four or five star hotel close to Cafe Photo? I've stayed at the Hilton in Sao Paulo before and it is a long ride out to Cafe Photo.

I'm traveling a lot to Argentina on business lately and would like to go to Sao Paulo over a weekend strickly for hobby purposes so I'd like to stay as close to Cafe Photo as possible.

Kinesics

06-16-02, 02:00

Hulk,

Cafe Photo is in the Moema section in S.P. which is fair and nice area but a bit out of way from 'centro and business district' perspectives. Even though I'm not an expert in geography of S.P., I don't recall to see any high-end hotel (i.e. Inter-Continental) in that area. I could be wrong on this but want to share what I know.

Hope other regular contributors from S.P. help you out on this.

J Wadd

06-16-02, 09:51

Yes. It's about 20 mins. out from the regular tourist hotel strip. In fact, I don't remember seeing any hotels at all out there.\

Cafe Foto is located in a busy street (with nothing but bars and restaurants on it) in the middle of a quiet condominium suburb. No hotels.

Same for Romanza and Bahamas.

Don't worry -- stay at the Hilton (or wherever) and take a taxi to Foto. Once there, take the girl back to your place in Centro, OR take them to a "quick-time" motel NEAR centro. Either way, once you've found your girl, you'll be heading back to centro one way or the other (unless you go to her place).

JW

Nvr2L8

06-16-02, 19:12

Originally posted by Hulk
I'm reposting a question I posted about a month ago. Sorry about the repost, but I didn't get any answers and I could really use one:

Could anyone suggest a four or five star hotel close to Cafe Photo? I've stayed at the Hilton in Sao Paulo before and it is a long ride out to Cafe Photo.

I'm traveling a lot to Argentina on business lately and would like to go to Sao Paulo over a weekend strickly for hobby purposes so I'd like to stay as close to Cafe Photo as possible.

Hulk,
Once when I was in S.P. on business, the company I contracted with put me in a place named Campobelo Plaza:
http://www.campobeloplaza.com.br/english/index.htm
The web site says that they're located next to Moema, so you might want to check it out if you have a chance.

I never visited Cafe Photo while I was there, but I did order a couple of "room service" girls, and there was absolutely no problem with the front desk.

The place is an aparthotel, the rooms are actually mini-suites. You get some noise from the airport (the metro one, not the international), but the rooms were pretty nice, and the beds were comfortable.

Hope this helps.

Hulk

06-23-02, 19:24

Nvr2L8:

Thanks for the hotel recommendation, it's exactly what I was looking for!

06-28-02, 23:29

Well here goes guys, I get fed up with people just posting simple questions and not putting any live reports up. So this is my experience of my period in Sao Paulo and Rio starting from when I arrived on 17 June 2002. I was working in Brazil and naturally wanted to find some action after checking the postings for a number of weeks prior to my arrival which was generally poor (less questions more useful information). I was staying in an area that is quite far from Paulista Ave, so this involved taxis everywhere. Sao Paulo is also a very big city, which is congested at the best of times. I did try to find local guides or magazines for the city but unfortunately for me I could not find out where the action was, in terms of private and apartment girls.

I first went to the American centre, which has its own web site: www.amcenter.com.br and I e-mailed them prior to my visit asking about any special offers. Like most of the earlier posting have said they do have someone who speaks English and are very helpful they got back to my enquiry within three days. I went down to the American Centre where I was offered a drink, shown to a room and then had all the available girls come in one at a time and present themselves with typical Brazilian greeting, a kiss on the cheek. Being a gentleman I got up out of my seat each time. Once all of the girls have been presented to you then have to decide which one you want; to help you are given a photo album with their photos from the web site included. I did not need the photo album because the girl I wanted was Gabriela, who is about 5’ 3” with a super fit body (check out her photos). I went for a super relax which comes in at R$100 (U$35) for one hour, you can get 30 minutes but costs R$ 80 (U$ 28).

The massage itself was great, you shower and get oiled up and Gabriela rubs her breasts all over you then gives a BBBJ for as long as you want, inside your time, then when your ready to fuck puts on the condom. Having tried massages literally all over the world from Bangkok to Prague I would have to rate this as one of the best because it was not mechanical and Gabriela was not in a hurry to get it over with and she also wanted to kiss during the session and reactive oral. You get one hour for the massage and ten minutes to shower up afterwards then you proceed to pay. They are currently running a special offer where if you have five massages you get the fifth one free. The only thing that lets down the American center is the facilities could do with a bit of a sprucing up a bit, but on the whole its one of the best massages you can get in the world today, especially for the price.

I went back to the American Centre and wanted to try a two girl special at around R$ 200 (U$ 70) I had met Camila the on paying the night before and wanted to try her and Gabriela. The only problem is that girls don’t get on, several of the girls I wanted for an Indian massage (two girls) would not work with each other. So I settled for just Camila, she was a nice girl and once again the massage was not rushed although the massage was as good as Gabriela’s. Plenty of kissing, bbbj and sex, which she seemed to enjoy as much as myself. Even with my poor Portuguese Camila still gave me her mobile and offered to show me around if I was free. American Centre is very good value for money worth a visit.

During my time in Sao Paulo I wanted to try as much as I could and tried another agency that came to your hotel found in Sao Paulo este mLs (this month) I called up and arranged a girl to come to where I was staying, which was a hotel come apartment. I had to try a few agencies as I can’t speak Portuguese and despite some agencies claiming to speak English it is often very poor to arrange any details. I arranged with As Amigas tel:5573 1291 they also claim to have a web site but I could not find it. The agreed price was R$ 100 (U$ 35) for two hour plus the taxi and be warned the so-called twenty minutes the girl would arrive turned into 55 in reality. The girl was 19 average looks and not really big breasted which I had asked for but the total price including taxi was R$ 150 (U$ 53). The sex was average the girl really seemed to enjoy the session with bbbj and kissing but her mobile rang several times and she said it was her mother and had to go after an hour, which I did not mind.

Also I should add I had no problem bringing a girl into my hotel, as this was the night when Brazil were playing England in the World Cup from Japan at 3.30am, 21st June, and if there is only one thing Brazilians like better than sex its football (soccer). On that night I could have brought half a dozen girls back to my place and a horse because all they were talking and thinking about was the game.

I did not get to try out www.Francebel.com.br because it was a bit too far out of town especially when you have to rely on taxis. Taxis in Sao Paulo are not like in other cities every time I went back to my place by taxi I went a different route after they got lost. I would strongly recommend the American Center when in Sao Paulo as the service was first rate, they also do an out call to your hotel and the girls are the ones posted on their web site I did want to try out Bianca who was sitting in the reception as she was also very sexy and had a nice completion and body, but I wanted to try out new experiences for this post. Another useful site is the www.contatos.com.br the only problem with this is that I don’t speak enough Portuguese and the girls tend to speak little English- so its worth investing a some language training. Another useful web site is www.ipenema.com for general information on Brazil.

On the Saturday 22 June 02, I went over to Rio and if I can offer some good advice I would recommend anyone flying between to the two cities to use the domestic airport Congohos. This flies into the domestic airport Santo Dumont, in Rio and will not only save you time, because you don’t have to go through passport control, which is hectic at all times, but money also, as the taxi fares will save you in total around R$70.00 over using the international airport.

Visually Rio is a much nicer city than Sao Paulo and I also found much easier to navigate you way around compared to Sao Paulo. Sexually Rio has more to offer the sex tourist or seems to be better organized on this front. In the newspaper O Globo you can find in the classificados sections, contact details of girls, Motels amd swing clubs but you need to speak the language.

On my first night in Rio I had planned on going to Help Disco, I have read so much about it and was looking forward to the experience. Plus it was 15 minutes walking distance of where I was staying on the Copacabana. The only thing is Help doesn’t start until midnight, so what to do until then? I decided to check out one of the many termas available in Rio and after a quick bite to eat went to Centaurus in Ipanema, www.centaurusnet.com.br at around 8pm, I had several to choose from but I choose them because they understood English when I called up earlier. You pay R$290 (U$102) entrance and get 40 minutes with any girl or R$305 (U$107) with a credit card, you can just pay an entrance fee and then decide on a girl later but you have to pay before you go up to a room. On drinks you can order on your locker number and settle your bill before you leave so you don't need to carry cash in the club. If you have never been before it’s a little bit intimidating on your first visit to get your bearings. You have to change into a some flip flops and a bathrobe, then go up stairs into the main smoke filled room. I was told there are something like 80 girls available and to be honest I would not disagree with that figure. There are girls off all shapes, colour and sizes in there but I did not see any old or fat women in there apart from the madam who controls the girls. My best advice on entering is too get a drink and then wait around before deciding on the girl you want – why rush? The girls will approach you to engage you in conversation or make eye contact with you because that is their job. If you sitting at the bar the girls will also rub themselves up against you trying to get you aroused and remember that your only wearing a short bathrobe. When you look around the room you will see a lot of kissing and cuddling going on because the girls obviously want you to take them upstairs; to be honest I was not pressured by any girls to buy them a drink or take them upstairs they are happy to sit and chat, with my limited Portuguese and their limited English. Some of the girls wear a sort of transparent hipster trousers, and bear midriff, you can clearly see their thongs. The clientele were 80% Brazilians from other cities eavesdropping on the conversations going on, I also got the impression that Brazilian men like slim pert breasted women, whereas I like big booty and big breast so I had no problem spotting the girl I wanted, sitting talking to her friend.

I went upstairs to a room with her later, which was fairly basic but all I wanted to do was fuck so it didn’t matter. The girl showers changes into some sexy lingerie comes back in ten minutes. She performs bbbj and any other request you have, sex is with a condom and no anal sex as far as I am aware. Although you get 40 minutes it actually lasted near 50 minutes and was good because the girl enjoyed the session also especially when I was eating her clit.

After the session I went down to recuperate in the steam room and sauna for about 40 minutes then came back for more. In the bar I observed a little more and saw that around the sides, some guys were being rubbed up by the girls under their dressing gowns. The rule is that girls are not allowed to engage in any sexual activity in the club this should be done upstairs in the rooms and the madam does walk around to keep an eye on her girls to make sure their not giving too much away. Two and half hours later after striking up a conversation with a Brazilian and French national at the bar (guys not girls also their first visit – so they claimed?) I thought what the hell -you only live once and decided to go for two girls. One of them had been striking up conversation with me earlier, and had been trying to attract my attention most of the evening and the other reminded me a little of Anna Kournikova, its was the closest I was going to get to the real thing. I could not decide on which one I wanted and decided to have them both. The cost is R$380 (U$ 135) for 40 minutes but for an hour the price goes up too R$500 (U$175). The sex was good to have one sitting on my face whilst the other was giving me a bbbj, we tried several positions with several condoms and after an exhaustive 40 minutes time was up, hence I could not make it to Help at now 3am I was shattered. One of the girls wanted to meet me on the beach the next day but I got there late doing the tourist thing.

I tried another agency in Rio, Barra girl www.barraqueen.com on the Sunday, this involved me getting a taxi as the location was quite a distance, I agreed R$100 (U$35) with a local taxi to take me to the house in Barra di Tijuca and wait two hours against the R$45 (U$16) one way visit. My impression of this agency was not very good, they do an out call coming to your hotel or motel but I would have had problems with this girl in my room, you can try the love in motels which cost from R$30-80 (U$ 11-28) for two hours but you have to know the right ones to go too. The girl was not that good and in fact this is the worst sex I had had in Brazil since I’d been there; even if the girl charged R$150 (U$38) for two hours there were only five girls to choose from. Including the taxi to Barra di Tijuca worked out at R$250 (U$88) for R$40 (U$14) more I could have had much better sex.

My final night in Rio I went back to Centaurus and again had two girls one of them from the Saturday night. In the week Centaurus is very quiet and the only problem, if you can call it that, you will face is deciding from all of the available girls which one you want. The girl I had gave me a bbbj and I came in her mouth, which she said she liked, she also gave me her mobile number and asked me to stay in touch and write even thought she understood very little English. The session went over the hour but there did not seem to be any rush on both our parts. Summing up I would have to say that although I was only able to try just one termas in Rio its something that all guys should try at least once, in their life. I have tried various clubs in Europe and Asia and the sex here was the best I have had, the women seems to enjoy it, unless Brazilian girl and first rate actresses.

All you have to remember is that always practice safe sex, treat the women with respect, you will enjoy yourself. My final tip is credit cards are accepted but try to use cash as my credit card company suspended my card after I used it twice there because they thought it had been cloned or stolen and this is a problem in Brazil with cards so be careful. In future I will use cash. On crime apart from credit cards, if you take taxis at night and don’t wear flashy jewelry and flash your cash, stay off the beach at night you should be OK.

Sorry for the long report but I wanted to share the useful information.

Juniour

peter panochito

07-09-02, 22:03

hello gentlemen. just got back from my visit to sao paulo yesterday. during that time, i visited romanza, bahamas, and cafe photo. but my post is to share a diamond that i found in the form of a massage parlor. it's called clinica my way. the website is www.clinicamyway.com.br a 1 hour massage costs R$120.00. this includes a handshake. for an extra R$50.00, you can get oral, or R$100.00 for full service. Check the website for some pics, there are about 10 - 12 girls that work there. It's in Itaim Bibi, in a nice neighborhood, 2 security guards at the door. Nice place, clean, and the women are extremely good looking and nice. Cafe Photo, bahamas, and romanza were also a good time, but we all know the deal with those places. Also, at clinica my way, you can have 2 girls massage you for 1 hr. 20 minutes for R$200.00, but you'll have to pay the extas fee to each girl.

Charleyman1

07-13-02, 20:36

SANTOS, I will be in Sao Paulo week of July 15..but would like to go to Santos for several days on the week. Anyone can tell me nice hotel, bars, disco, and of those fun places.

regards

Golds

07-14-02, 21:16

Please some info about www.francebel.com.br, only massage or more....

Big Johnson

07-16-02, 16:28

Your Mileage May Very at Francebel. Strict rules is that you get a massage + HJ for your R$100. Normally, they will ask to "Relax" you at the end of your massage. This is after great normal (nearly swedish) and a Thai (Nude body to body) massage. This is your opportunitity to ask for more or more aggressive girls will ask you strait out if you want more. Francebel is considered the creme de la creme of the Sao Paulo massage places most of the girls don't want to get fired from here and the story seems to be is they all cross the line but if they are obviously caught, they get kicked out. But most will do the R$50 Oral, R$100 FS, R$150 Greek program. But if she refuses. Let her know you are planning to give her a little tip for the special attention and she'll normally take it. If that doesn't work, take the HJ and try someone else the next time. It is unlikely you get two no's in a row. The best thing is to make her feel comfortable with you and things will progress. I would say the refusal rate is less than 5%.

I love Francebel. I have been there at least 10 or 15 times on different trips to SP. The girls are friendly and beautiful. Except on Saturday morning, the place is busy. So if your heart is set on one of the girls on the gallery page, email for an appointment. They understand English by Email. Don't count on it working once you are there. The receptionist/owner's English is pretty limitted. It normal with locals. Plan on the appointment being about 30 minutes late but drink a cerveja and relax until it is your time. If you are willing to take the risk on who ever is available, you can always show up and take your chances on who ever is available. There is also a saying in Brazil, "Don't pick the prettiest girl because she is the most used." Some words of thought as you make your selection but they are all beautiful.

Good Luck.

Athos

07-17-02, 07:28

I am new to this board but not new to Brazil having gone the Rio route a couple of times. I have a few questions on Sao Paulo which I intend to visit for several days in Nov before heading to Rio for a third trip.

1. Looks like SP is basically Centro, Ave Paulista, Boema where Foto, Romanza are. Can someone recommend a decent hotel, good combo price and facility? I am thinking Ave Paulista is best location as metro available for day travel to mp's. Night cab ride to Foto would be at night so can I assume traffic has died down by 10:00 pm?

2. What are there options for Sun hobby as mp's seems to be all closed as well as Boates?

3. Is Fazendinha worth the extra effort to get there? and how much is cab ride from SP?

4. For talent, is selection best at Foto, then Romanza, then Fazendinha then Bahamas? Do I have order right? Is talent level superior to Rio or about the same as Centaurus/Barbarella on a good night.

5. I understand prices to be higher in SP but can I expect bbbj and deep french kissing like in termas in Rio or hit and miss like at Barbarella/Help where I have had mixed sessions from mediocre to excellent.

6. Has anyone tried Agencia Roberta in SP. They have a book you can check their line up of escorts and it should include models, playmates and magazine cover girls besides local talent. Also what is the cost for short time?

Thanks on any info

Athos

07-21-02, 16:35

Ronnie,

Following your comments, you are forgetting that Brazil is a multi cultural country. You are obviously under the impression that every country is like your own, finding an area where you can just find white women. Even the Brazilian males I met there actually like the fact that there is such a wide contrast in different women available to them; as one said to me, where in the world could I find this? All men are attracted to different things in life but just because you like one thing doesn’t mean you should hate what you not attracted too.

The second is with your poor attitude I doubt any woman of any race would be too interested in you once your money has run out. I wonder why you bother travelling to Brazil when you should really just stay at home.

I feel sorry for guys like you, your obviously seeking some attention denied to you by your merger lifestyle.

RONNIE756

07-22-02, 07:11

Dear junior,
your right I did not know that there was such a multiculture of languagages in Brasil thank for the information I have been racking my brains trying to learn as much Portugues as I can and your comments relaxed me a little bit. As for the other comments we never met and lets just leave it at that. My situation is this I am renting an appartment for 30 days in Copacabanna and plan to be cooking my own meals, as for picking up women I will just try to adapt to the situation.
Your shoot strait (not a homosexual statment) how much would you bring (PLEASE BE MODEST).

Your name from junior to The Gardian of RIO
rACK THIS GUY

curioustraveler

07-28-02, 22:53

I am in SP now and am at the Renaissance. I have read some posts and would like to try a few places or get hotel service. Anyone have experience at the Renaissance Hotel and which places are close.

Also, I saw a web address for American Center but it did not seem to work. Can anyone repost a good web address for this place.

Thanks

Athos

07-29-02, 02:41

Here is the American Center url:
http://www.amcenter.com.br/
Good luck while in SP.

Big Johnson

07-29-02, 20:45

Curious. What part of SP is the Renaissance?

Hulk

08-08-02, 21:33

Can anyone tell me which is closer to Cafe Photo: the Hilton or the Sheraton?

I've stayed at the Hilton before and it's along ride to Cafe Photo. I'm thinking of staying at the Sheraton during my next trip, particularly if it's closer to Cafe Photo.

Big Johnson

08-09-02, 13:57

I would say the Sheraton. Last time I checked on the rate there is was outragegous, like $400 per night. That was for a regular room. With devaluation, it might be cheaper, now. For Cafe Foto, try like Ceasar Park (not Palace) or something in Jardins section of the city. Just my opinion.

Hulk

08-09-02, 18:20

Could someone please give me the website address for the Bahamas Club?

I looked for it in the archives and on Yahoo Brazil but came up empty. Do they have a website?

Hulk

08-11-02, 04:42

I've seen some escorts advertise that they are available for "sexo bizarro" in Sao Paulo. Does anyone know exactly what that means?

Athos

08-11-02, 07:28

Hulk
Here is Bahamas url:
http://www.cyberbahamas.com.br/
Click on sexo, then look for Bahamas on the top menu.

Kinesics

08-13-02, 04:08

I was in S.P. between 7/29 and 7/31 and moved to Rio. Good friend of mine (native Brazilian) afforded me a car with the driver so I was able to move around. According to friend of mine, that is least he can do for his friend visiting his town from 7000 Km. His family wealth can afford him to do such.

Explaining of such tells you that I would not be able to tell you about directions or distance to clubs and massage places from specific places like hotels or landmarks.

I was able to visit AmCenter, Bahamas and Fazendinha while in S.P. As this was my first non-business trip to Brazil allowed me to visit AmCenter during daytime.

It was about 3:00 p.m. when I arrived at AmCenter. The building has no sign and only way to locate the building is the number of the street. I met Eric who I believe the owner of the outfit - very very nice guy. Even though the place was not Ritz and the ladies were not Playmates, those ladies showed elegant and non-rush attitude which counts for me.

Complete full service for one full hour was one hundred reais, about $30.00 at rate of $1.00 = 3.2 reais. A lady (her name was Any?) gave me a very good massage from toe to head and then gave me breast massage. Who can resist such sensual flesh contact? She put a cover on it and gave soft, slow and great BJ which was followed by great and passionate sex. As the allotted time was left a few more minutes (she used the timer), she gave me another great massage with her soft and slow hand until the full hour was reached. I had great time and relaxed very well so gave her a small tip for token of appreciation. Again, it was neither Ritz nor Playmates but experience was the class of these.

In the evening, friend of mine, his brother-in-law and I went to Bahamas club. Even though I would not be able to know the exact location, it is my guess that it might be in Moema section of S.P. Friend of mine booked a flat near his house in Moema and the distance from the flat to Bahamas was short drive.

The flat (I would not know the difference between flat and hotel) was brand new. The room was divided into two by the wall - bedroom and bathroom, and sitting area, workspace with modem connection, minibar along with microwave oven, and balcony. Daily rate was R$90.00 which was US$30.00. On my business trip to S.P., I usually stay at Hilton in Centro at daily rate of R$450 or so. Even though Hilton has far better facilities and restaurants, quality of the room of this flat was no less than Hilton.

In any case, cover for Bahamas was R$97.00 and nothing comes with the cover. However, as US dollar was very strong, cost of the drinks including premier Scotch would not merely dent the money clip.

Three story building: Entrance level is main level which has completely and well stocked bar, very comfortable sofa's pool table, very small stage for strip shows, real wood burning fire place as July in Brazil is winter, stairways to second floor for those rooms for relax. I believe the room rate was either R$60 or 70. There is a basement where there are another bar, tables, locker rooms for men and women but each has no door or curtain. If you hang around the locker area, you would be able to see working ladies get changed for their "uniforms". Atmosphere of entire club was well lit, clean, tasty deco, courtesy staff - very relaxing and has its own class like Cafe Photo.

According to friend of mine, ladies in Cafe Photo on Monday are not as good as those in Bahamas on Monday. So we ended up in Bahamas.

There were a lot more ladies than men at main level, I would say at least four to one ratio. Some were knock out's, majority was very good looking in great shape, a few made me wondering how they made to Bahamas. I met a little petite foxy who was able to converse in English at decent level. She was at least 8 or 9 with great GF attitude. We cuddled and played around an hour or so over a few drinks. She was all over me with locking tongues while her hand was over my grouch while mine was on her breast. She quoted R$300.00 for overnight at my hotel.

I spoke to her about my plan of going Rio on Wednesday morning with a couple of Brazilian friends and asked her whether she would come along. She said no problem if I gave her some spending money about R$300.00 or so while in Rio. I told her that we would be in Rio until Saturday and I would fly back home from Rio and she would have to ride back to S.P. with my buddies and her reply was 'no problem'. This sums up why I love Brazilian woman.

Next day's plan to visit FranceBel for massage somehow did not work out. However in the evening three of us headed to Fazendinha in Campinas - my favorite place. One of my staff joined us at the club. Without knowing the detail breakdown of the total bill, entire evening cost us R$540.00 which includes the cover and all drinks plus charges for three rooms. Then each of us paid each lady at rate of R$150, 160 and 200 which tells you about negotiation with ladies. If I remember correctly, the entrance fee was R$70.00 about four months ago and you drink the fee.

Quality of ladies are more sporadic in comparison to Cafe Photo or Bahamas however uniqueness of the club compensates that. Again, many folds more women are at each man's disposal. At least my experiences of previous visits, these ladies leave their attitude behind at home. I know I can count on Fazendinha and it was there for me to serve me right as I wanted.

My driver took about 90 minutes or so from Moema section to Campinas' down town where we had dinner. As Fazendinhas was on the way to S.P. and driving 2:00 a.m. helped us to get back to hotel at rate of 70 minutes or so.

I gave a bottle of great wine which I brought from home and R$200.00 as a token of appreciation to my driver who drove me for two full days. Next morning we headed north to Rio via Ford Explorer!

This has been my trip report to all of hobbyist out there. I'll post my Rio experiences in Rio section.

Athos

08-13-02, 04:47

Thanks for fantastic report off2golf.
I am thinking of spending 5 days in SP in Nov. After your glowing report on Bahamas, I am thinking of adding it to my boate circuit.
Fazendinha in Campinas is real far from SP.
After checking Brazilian Maplink, it is obvious to me I will stay in Moema as all boates in that area, mp's fairly close, only day time outdoor pool club a bit far.

mister ej36

08-13-02, 17:47

I am going to Sao Paulo on August 25 and staying at the Hilton International on Avenida Ipiranga. Can anyone tell me of good night clubs that are close to the hotel? Are the clubs walking distance or is a car/taxi needed? Particulary club Bahama or Fazendihna or any like those. What about masage establishments? Is the city safe to walk around? Thanks for your advice.

Kinesics

08-14-02, 01:35

My disclaimer is I'm no expert on S.P. My account is only based on my limited experiences. Other's opinion should be shared for our international venturing buddies.

I have stayed at Hilton several times on my business trips. The club you can go by 10 minute taxi ride is Romanza which is very nice and elegant club. I personally don't like big show places attracting tourists. Romanza would be a couple of inches below Cafe Photo, Bahamas or W but still great place to visit. Last time when I was there about four months ago or so, the cover was R$137 which comes with a few beers. When you go there, look for Eric who speaks very good English and is nice man. Little bit of advance tip always helps.

You can take your woman to Hilton who let you bring your lady to your room with appropriate paper work which is good for you. Hilton did not even ask me to pay any fee for the lady at last trip.

I would not walk around aimlessly alone in the evening. If you have a buddy or so and know towards where you are heading, I would not too much worry about it as long as you stick to major avenues or streets.

There are many clubs in S.P. were commented and reviewed on this board. If I were you, I would explore and conquere these clubs first and then venture to Campinas for Fazendinha.

Hope this helps!

Athos

08-14-02, 07:57

Mister ej
I am too a complete newcomer to SP scene but found by luck the Brazilian maplink, http://maplink.uol.com.br/index.htm
Check it out as I was able to place every boate, mp's, terma and outdoor club.
I have decided to stay in Moema for the boates at night, several mp's are within striking distance and local airport CGH is like 15 min drive.

mister ej36

08-14-02, 13:41

OK thanks for the information about Romanza. Is it easy to meet weomen there? How about in the Hotel itself? Is there a bar or a club? Are the women friendly and accomodating? Since I've never been to Brazil, you speak of having to pay to bring women to your hotel room, I'm not sure whom you mean, the woman or security at the hotel? Anyway thanks for your feedback so far. I'm very excited to be going. Please keep the information coming.

Hulk

08-14-02, 23:24

Could someone give me the website and/or street address for W? I've heard very good things about it and would like to visit it during my next trip to Sao Paulo.

Kinesics

08-15-02, 00:43

To: Hulk

The address of club W (3845-2725) is Rua Alvorada, 550 - Vila Olimpia. It is still on major avenue or street (I don't know the name) but is located a bit off from the avenue. It is difficult to find it after dark as it has fairly low key entrance and when you see two or three well-built men in black suites, you know you are right place.

There is a great Brazilian steakhouse (Jardineira Grill) in walking distance from the W club on same side of the street. It is one of well-known grills in S.P. so taxi driver should be able to take you there and then you can walk over to the W or take a taxi for one minute or so.

I have not been in the W for a while so I could not comment current information in terms of quality of women or money matters. I'm certain that you would not be disappointed at all as it is at same quality of Cafe Photo and Bahamas IMHO.

To: mister ej36
Romanza like any other good clubs in S.P. and for that matter in Brazil has plenty of women who's sole purpose is to please you for money. Even though it is commercial transaction between you and your woman at the evening, you will be entertained by very accommodating and great personality, what many called girlfriend experience.

Speaking of paying moeny goes, I meant to pay additional fee for the woman whom you bring back to your hotel room. Whatever the price that you agree to pay her will be given to the woman when you consider the business is done. The rate is on wide range on the scale. I would think you would be expected to pay somewhere between R$200 to R$500 depending upon quality of the woman and quality of the club. Of course, it is absolutely negotiable.

I would suggest you to go to this type of club around or after 10:30 or 11:00. Most (if not all) of the clubs in S.P. close on Sunday.

Kyck_stand

09-12-02, 01:34

Hey, Guys.

Had to post this because things like this happen alot but this has to be one of the best:

Just got back from Sao Paulo yesterday afternoon. Was in the city for only 2 days. I have friends there and we spent the weekend at Juquehy (spelling?). Beautiful place for beach type activities. About 2 1/2 hours from the City.

First night (Friday), my friend takes me to Bahamas (Rua Dos Chanes 571). Lots of girls. Some very nice ones. A rainbow of colors.

I decide on a light skinned brunette Basilera with the Brazilian body that I love. I speak enough Portuguese to tell them that I don't speak Portuguese. My friend, Pting, is from Sao Paulo, so I let him do the talking.

I tell him to make sure she realizes that I'm, uh, "gifted" so that there want be any problems later since I don't speak Portuguese. She says in english "No problem!"

We negotiate $250 Reals for an hour and go to the room. I spring for Pting some entertainment since he's been such a gracious host. We go to take care of business.

She starts undressing and her body is everything I thought it was EXCEPT...for the tattoo of pegasus on one of her butt cheeks. Oh, well. It still very nice.

She starts undressing me and she's making comments about my, uh, laser pointer. To this point, she hasn't removed the Fruit of the Looms. Well, she takes those off.

She says "Uh-oh." In English.

I couldn't stop laughing. After I wiped the tears from my eyes, we got started.

One thing I noticed about Bahamas is that the girls try to get you off as quickly as possible. This is my first time in a place like Bahama in Sao Paulo, so maybe this is the norm. She was obviously fake moaning and I was losing my "motivation". So I had an idea.

I lay on my back so that she could see what she was doing wasn't working. She began oral resuscitation which solved both problems: I got motivated again and it stopped her fake moaning. Brilliant, I thought.

When "Stanley" was ready, I motioned for her to get on top. That way I would have more control. She did so. And I let her try to get me off fast. The reason I do this is because it never works on me. What it does is tires her out while I conserve my energy. Kinda like a "Rope-A-Dope".

When I felt her slowing down, I grabbed her hips, planted my heels, and let her have it.

Uh-huh. Resistance is futile.

I think we both enjoyed it. I know I did.

We bumped into my friend on the way out. BTW, guys, you pay the girl in the room. Since I was paying for him and he only had $100 Reals on him, I had to give his girl $150 reals. No biggie.

Okay experience. I had a much better one at Monte Carlo in Rio de Janeiro.

Weeknights seem to get better looking girls in. We went back on Monday night and the selection was much better.

I picked 2 cute blondes for $400 reals. After much negotiation. One was beautiful with an awesome body but was a waste of time in the bed. One was a cute, a little heavier than I liked but made up for it with enthusiasm in the bed. 20/20 Hindsight, I would've picked the heavier girl for a one-on-one instead.

Just my experience yours may be different.

Enjoy

Kick Stand

Saint

09-15-02, 15:43

Kyck Stand,

Sounds like you had fun! I had fun hanging out with you in Buenos Aires. It will be fun spending some more time there in November and Rio for New Year's should be a blast.

How would you compare the girls of BA to the girls of Sao Paulo? I'm just curious.

Kyck_stand

09-16-02, 03:57

Saint,

I'm not sure if I can make a good comparison based on only two trips to Sao Paulo, both of which were only for a couple of days. Next time I go to Sao Paulo, and , OH YES, there will be a next time, I plan to spend more time there so that I can make a decent comparison.

Now a comparison between BA and Rio de Janeiro. That's another story. Performance by women of both areas were incredible. That's why I'll see you in BA AND in Rio later this year.

Kick Stand

MoonDog

09-18-02, 02:04

Originally posted by saint

How would you compare the girls of BA to the girls of Sao Paulo? I'm just curious. [/i]

Saint,

Brazilian girls are beautiful as are the BA girls. The Brazilian girls are more natural with their looks and breasts, and yet many of them have to have their hair straightened to get the soft silky smooth look.

Anyway, I don't care, they are both beautiful, excellent lovers, and a fantasic experience no matter which city that you see them in.

Enjoy the life

webgpsp

09-20-02, 03:20

I'm from Brazil and I would like to give some information about cheap sex that you can find in São Paulo.

There are some small houses in Sao Paulo that we call "Prives" , I can call them "fast fuck houses", from outside they look as normal houses and generally work inside these houses from 5 to 15 girls.

The prices start from 20 R$ , about 7 US$ , for half an hour oral and vaginal sex , for anal sex you have to ask the girl and spend more 7 or 10 US$ more. Of course you will not find beautiful ladies inside these houses, to have an idea what you can find you can see a site from one of these 7US$ houses

http://www.fabricadoprazer.com.br/boate/boatesp/422/422.htm

If you want to spend a little more you can find some houses where you will spend around 80R$ (25 US$) for one hour sex and find better options ,here is a site sample

http://www.gatavip.com.br/venus/massagem.htm

http://www.gatavip.com.br/venus/

You pay nothing to enter these houses, the girls are presented to you and if did not like any the girls you simply get out , pay nothing , and look for another place.

There are more than 100 houses of this type spread in Sao Paulo city and they announce at Brazilian Newspapers like

"Diario de Sao Paulo "
http://www.diariosp.com.br/classif/resultado.asp?cat=1&tipo_anuncio=49&45=85&Pesquisar=Pesquisar

and

"Folha de Sao Paulo"

http://classificados.folha.com.br/folha/classificados/negocios/acompanhantes/

You need some knowledge of Portuguese to visit these places , at least know how to ask and understand the prices.

These houses open about 10 AM until 23 pm , I recommend , for security reasons, go between 1 PM until 6 PM and do not take much money , credit cards and travel checks. These places are not dangerous, but from time to time one or other house get robbed and these little precautions can avoid too much trouble to you if something bad happen. This is not to scare people, probably you have more chance to be robbed in the streets of Sao Paulo than inside these houses.

Probably for the majority of people here spending 300/500R$ 100 to 200 US$ is not so much and prefer to get the best girls and go to expensive night clubs , but I think that this forum can present all types of options that you can find in Sao Paulo. I can put more addresses if there are people interested.

J Wadd

09-20-02, 06:06

RE: Below.

Yes please (to more addresses) and thanks for what you've put up already.

Best,
JW

Prosal

09-20-02, 09:06

Webgpsp, thanks for this helpful info......can you include in your future recomandations the places (bars, discos, casas noturnas...) where freelancers can be met.......on the old board some talked about a boite where night clubs or bars girls go partying after working , called 'Love Story', is it still good ?

Thanks for it

Pro

DogDays

09-20-02, 18:23

Webgpsp--Do they have these cheap sex houses in RIO?lf they do l would like to have some addresses of those houses.

webgpsp

09-21-02, 05:11

You can visit Malicia www.malicia.com.br , site specialized of escorts ads. There is section about prives:

http://www.malicia.com.br/free/acompanhantes/freeprives/freeprives.htm

Click any of icons and you will see the addresses. Click the word “Garotas” (girls) to see the girls.

One house that usually have beautiful girls for the price you pay , 80R$ ( 30US$) for one hour , is

http://www.malicia.com.br/free/acompanhantes/freeprives/02137/main.htm

Unfortunately the majority of these houses have ads only at Brazilian newspapers , links that I already posted.

Some address that I know, these addresses are not near the center of the city,

(Rua = Street)

North side of the city:
Rua Jovita, 237 - Santana - São Paulo-SP
Phone: 55- 11-6959-2686 10 US$ / 30 minutes

Rua Gabriel Piza,515 - Santana - São Paulo - SP
Phone: 55- 11-6975-2181 15 US$ / 30 minutes

South Side:
Rua Ouvidor Peleja,111 – Sta Cruz - São Paulo – SP
Phone 55 – 11 - 5589-8620 7US$ / 30 minutes

Rua Senador Casemiro da Rocha, 468 - Praça da Árvore- São Paulo – SP
Phone 55 – 11 - 5584-5250 30US$ / 60 minutes

There are many more address, but these house some times close , as I metioned, from outside there is no sing if is a residential house or little sex business house . I think that can be a very embarrassing situation if you knock wrong door. Probably you need some assistance to make a call and always confirm the address before going to any place.

I did not like night clubs because the price, too much for me, and I prefer Mc Donald’s style of paid sex: pay , fuck and get out.

Love Story still the same for one who asked:

http://www.danceterialovestory.com.br/home.htm

You can try , Nestor Pestana Street, places like

Vagao Plaza
http://www.fabricadoprazer.com.br/boate/boatesp/vagao/vagao.html

I do not know Rio, but you can find some apartments where works some girls that post some ads at “Jornal O Dia” ( Rio de Janeiro newspaper). The prices also starts from 7 to 10 US$.

Jornal o Dia Sex Ads

http://www.garotasdeprograma.com/links/GotoLink.aspx?Url_id=260

Some links that I found in tthe ads:

http://www.destack.com.br/hollywood.htm
http://www.destack.com.br/stellas.htm
http://www.centrodacidade.com.br/mzmassagem
http://www.gatasvipscentro.kit.net/page1.htm
http://www.centrodacidade.com.br/girlsegatas
http://www.twistgirls.kit.net/index1.htm

avis

09-21-02, 05:35

Superb information webgpsp! Thanks a lot. I plan to be in Sao Paolo for a few days from Oct. 4-8 and would be interested in meeting you for a drink. Maybe you could share more of your in-depth knowledge with this first-time visitor to Brazil?

Athos

09-21-02, 21:36

webgpsp
Thanks for info on prives.
I am looking for day time activities as night time has been well covered.
Can you recommend any place that offers good selection, price is not an issue, for day time fun?
I am aware of mp's like FranceBel, American clubs like Bomboa.
I am aware of couple of Thermas Do Square and Eu y Elas but have not seen any report on them.
Can you also comment on Connection Club if you have heard of it?
Do you know the address of the pick up pizzeria located in Moema as opposed to the one in Pinheiro?
Thanks on any info

Paolino

09-29-02, 08:23

Hi everyone,

regarding the internet ads i can tell about a small deception i experienced once. I called a girl that i found on contatos.com.br and when she knocked on the door of my room i had the bad surprise that she absolutely didn`t look like the girl on the internet site. Just ask the girl before if the picture she put on the site is recent or not.
Nevertheless, i found 2 morenas that do threesome. I think they look like if they could act in a Jay-Z video; check: abusado.com.br/manuemel/index.htm
BTW they can be found single on the morenas 18-20 years on the same site......tell me how they are!!!!

Ricobd

10-01-02, 07:48

I.m traveling to Sao Paulo on business this month, and I will staying at the TRANSAMERICA HOTEL SAO PAULO, Downtown, Nações Unidas Avenue, 18591 (Santo Amaro).

I'm certain I can't bring females back to the room. Can anyone suggest a clean cheap motel close to the Transamerica that I can take female companions?

Thanks

Rick

DogDays

10-01-02, 23:39

ln this forum everyone that travel to Brazil goes there for business and not for hobbying?l ain,t goin there for business but to sample what Brazil the Land of SAmba has to offer

Big Johnson

10-04-02, 19:50

Ricobd,

I used to stay at the Transamerica Hotel and I not only had a girl back to my room, she stopped at the front desk and I told them to send her up. She was there in two minutes. I would try it before you consider it not a viable solution.

If not there are two or three motels on the Marginal right near shopping Morumbi that you can use. All are clean, safe and nice.

webgpsp

10-05-02, 04:57

If are you looking for great quality day time activity I think you could try the TOP and most expensive mp's that you talked:

Fancebel : http://www.francebel.com.br/galeria.cfm

CelCennter : http://www.celcenter.com.br/

Dra. Oyama: http://www.dra-oyama.com.br/

Connection Night Club is good place to visit, but for nigth time.

http://www.connectionvip.com.br/garotas.asp

Av. Dr.Eduardo Cotching, 1.178 - Tatuapé - São Paulo –
Phone: (11) 6674-4702
160 R$ ( 45US$) for one hour of sex , there are rooms inside the night club.

Another alternative during day time is to look for independent escort girls that announce at brazilian sites like http://www.contatos.com.br/femsp.htm.

I did not visit any of the above places , but I know some people that visited Connection and Francebel and recommend them. I’m fan of cheap sex and Prives and cannot give my personal point of view of these places.

You can also visit a good directory of Brazilian Scort Links garotasdeprograma.com , some direct links because the site is in Portuguese.

São Paulo Links: http://www.garotasdeprograma.com/links/page.asp?Page=5&State=1&Category=0&NewSites=0

Rio de Janeiro Links:
http://www.garotasdeprograma.com/links/page.asp?Page=3&State=20&Category=0&NewSites=0

Originally posted by Athos
webgpsp
Thanks for info on prives.
I am looking for day time activities as night time has been well covered.
Can you recommend any place that offers good selection, price is not an issue, for day time fun?
I am aware of mp's like FranceBel, American clubs like Bomboa.
I am aware of couple of Thermas Do Square and Eu y Elas but have not seen any report on them.
Can you also comment on Connection Club if you have heard of it?
Do you know the address of the pick up pizzeria located in Moema as opposed to the one in Pinheiro?
Thanks on any info

Subaculture

10-07-02, 18:00

Hi webgpsp
Thanks very much for the information on SP "Prives" - very much appreciated. Its an area much under valued, as many like me ** young & poor :)**, cant afford (and would not waste) the high (100 US) US dollar scene.

I shall be in SP next February for a month. If you were to choose one or two privie to visit (with 10/20 girls to choose from) ... ladies for 10/15 US$.. which one would you pick..

Do you know any information on Night Augusta (street)

http://www.geocities.com/nightaugusta/

or the Afrodite Club (SP)
www.afroditeclub.com.br

Cheers
SC
Ireland

Ricobd

10-08-02, 05:23

Big Johnson,

Thanks for your information on motels.

Can anyone share with me the protocol for paying:

1) a massagista at a clinic - pay before or after?

and or

2) an acompanhante (contatos-type)-pay before or after?

Lastly, what is a reasonable range for "completo" at the American Center or acompanhante (contatos-type)?

Thanks Again.

Big Johnson

10-08-02, 14:03

For the MPs, what normally happens is you either pay first or after for the room and the massage. This normally includes, a massage, thailand massage (the garota massages you with every conceivable part of her body), and hand release (relax.) The quality of both the massage and the thai massage typically depends on which level of MP you go to. The better ones, you will get a better unrushed (30 minute) massage. The lower tier will give you about 5 to 15 minutes of a token massage and want to get strait to your release. When she asks you about relax is your time to ask her about the Programa (extras.) Low end places will normally charge 50 for OS/FS, high end places will charge 50 OS or 100 FS. Low end places the girl will have her own condom. High end places, it will be hit or miss, bring one to be safe.

For escorts, you can also pay before or after but I normally pay after unless she requests it upfront. I wouldn't worry about being cheated and normally the are ok being paid after unless they work for an agency. If the work for an agency, the agent normally asks them if the have been paid. If you mean a club girl, she will normally wait until after.

Hope this helps.

Big Johnson

10-08-02, 14:15

Sorry, completo. It is about 60/40, 60% will and 40% won't. If you are interested, with an escort or club girl, include it in your set of qualifing questions.

In a MP, it is hit or miss, again. In low end places, the girls will come in to meet you and you will kiss each on the cheek. You might wisper it in their ear as you kiss them and see if they answer. Be discreet. For high end places, don't ask. Most of the time the receptionist doesn't want to know what is going on in the back. I have heard rumors that the girls get fired if the management finds out about sex, this is also why they may not have a condom.

I don't know where you are heading. Let me know if you need someone at the high end MPs.

webgpsp

10-13-02, 00:18

subaculture

I wrote some address in my previous message that you can try:

(Rua = Street)

North side of the city:
Rua Jovita, 237 - Santana - São Paulo-SP
Phone: 55- 11-6959-2686 10 US$ / 30 minutes

Rua Gabriel Piza,515 - Santana - São Paulo - SP
Phone: 55- 11-6975-2181 15 US$ / 30 minutes

South Side:

Rua Senador Casemiro da Rocha, 468 - Praça da Árvore- São Paulo – SP
Phone 55 – 11 - 5584-5250 15US$ / 30 minutes

These prives at Santana region are near subway station. São Paulo subway is small , but have a good quality , is fast , clean and very cheap compared to a taxi. These prives are located near the station called “Santana”. You need some luck when visiting prives, sometimes you do not find any girl attractive. The worst day to visit a prive is Sunday, very few girls.

Giving some information like “Big Johnson” , at prives you almost always pay before, but at prives they only sell sex , no “soap massages” and similar services. You can freely ask the girl, before you make any payment, if you want anal sex, kiss her mouth and other kinds of interests that you have, no false moralism of some MP’S where they say that they do not sell sex services.

Augusta is a traditional street of Sao Paulo with many small night clubs and the majority with rooms inside , the prices are not so cheap, maybe you will spend 100R$ ( 30 US$) for entrance fee , 1 or 2 beers , and half an hour of sex. The quality is not so great , but you can try.

The last time I visited Augusta Street I went to “Maison Augusta Nigth Club” , Augusta Street , 648 Phone: 11-3258-5195 , 70R$ ( 20 US$) for half an hour service.

Sao Paulo also have some exotic places , one of them is a small and old building , 8 floors, near the center of the city. You enter and take a small elevator , only 3 people capacity, and go up to the 8th floor. After you left the elevator you begin to go down using the stairs. At each floor there are 5 to 10 girls in front of the apartments doors on in the middle of staircase. This is very low end place, 10 R$ ( 3 US$) for 15 minutes of sex , many girls are ugly , but a few can be fine for price. It is not an easy walk inside the building, at each floor all the girls try to grab you , one hold your arm other can hold your neck, you feel like a rock star surrounded by crazy fans, but of course the girls here want your money and grab you to the room. It is not a recommended place for tourists, but maybe there are some “idiana jones” sex travelers here that could try this building.

The address of this building is

Avenida Barao de Limeira , 134

The building is called “Edificio Itatiaia”.

The building is opened at business hours , visit before 5 pm. It is not recommended to use expensive watch , cellular phone or carry much money when visiting a place like this one.

Subaculture

10-13-02, 20:44

Thanks webgpsp for the information - very much appreciated. I will let the board know how I get on! Thanks.

inet007

10-14-02, 18:40

Hello,

I am wondering if these escort girl in Brazil can/understand English. I have no knowledge of Spanish or Brazilian language. I am planning my trip in Dec. Can someone advice how much does an escort service cost on average?

Also, can you guys recommend whether I should get a hotel or find apartment. I am going there for 1 month on a training basis

Thank
inet007

Tomb

10-14-02, 19:13

inet:

You are going to Sampa for a month in December? OK, here's some quick opinions/commentary:

You should get a flat (short-term lease apartment, fully furnished), should be about US$30/day (ballpark figure, I could be very wrong). There a plenty of these in Sampa. Depending on who's paying/how much you can afford/where your training is get one in Jardims, Morumbi, Brooklin, Sto Amaro, or generally any of the neighborhhods between the Centro and the Marginal Pinheiros.

Escorts (outcall) generally don't speak English, but between a phrasebook on your part and mutual understanding, you'll get by fine. After all, your both interested in the same things (sex and money).... It should cost about R$200/2hrs, (that's about US$50), but what with the inflation that's about to happen thanks to the devalorization of the Real, who knows? It may go up about 30%. As long as you are in Sampa for all that time, explore the "clinicas", the "prive"s (pree-vey), and the boites....

If you have free time on the weekends, take the opportunity to hop to Rio ($75 or so by air shuttle), and/or go to the Litoral Norte - Guaruja, Ubatuba, IlhaBela, etc.. Sao Paulo's strip of beaches. Once you make friends, they'll orient you. If you like colonial towns, mountains, forests, farms, whatever - all that is also available for weekend jaunts. If you are good with maps, don't mind driving, and can afford it, rent a car, otherwise go by bus, the inter-urban busses are very good. BTW Sampa-Rio is 8 hours by bus, an overnight. Get out of town and explore Brazil! Maybe take a gatinha with you...... ;-)

Have Fun!

Tom B.

Athos

10-15-02, 06:22

Inet007
First wow 1 month looks like on the company...great deal.
Concerning escorts, this it not the USA there 's a lot more available.
You're looking at telephone conversation with an escort. You speak English, she speaks Portuguese she will end up hanging up.
Why don't you try other venues like MP's, FranceBel has been well reviewed on this site.
Prives have been reviewed recently.
You can try American Bars which have rooms so you do not need to bring the girl back to your apartemnt/hotel room.
All of the above options are prepackaged so communication is not that important.
In the American Bar, just make eye contact with garota you are attracted and she will move to make the kill.

OldGuy

10-21-02, 02:46

Hello Brazil Mongers,

This is my first post to this site, although you'll find some current ones in the Buenos Aires and Santiago forums. I've got a simple problem: in three days, I'll be spending a couple of days in Sao Paulo. All of my time except one evening are taken up by business. In that one evening, I want to sample what I can of the famed warmth of Brazilian women. My problem is, while I'm fluent in Spanish, no falo portugues. Hell, for all I know, falo has two LLs. I will also be on my own, and SP doesn't have the finest image, safety-wise. I'm interested in the best experience I can have, not the cheapest. I'm staying in a five star hotel (business travel does have its advantages), so I'd probably just like to have someone sensation to my room. Any suggestions? I've actually read back in the forum, and haven't found an answer to my question. Thanks, I'm sure requests like this by newbies are a pain.

Ricobd

10-21-02, 05:44

1) Can someone comment about the difference in Brazilian women (non pros and pros in Sao Paulo) during "Carnival" versus the non-Carnival season?

and

2) Which city (Sao Paulo or Rio) is hotter for Brazilian women during "Carnival" and during the non-Carnival season?

Thanks

Tomb

10-21-02, 16:02

oldguy:

W. Clube in Itaim Bibi (Sao Paulo Zona Sul) may be of interest to you. Email me at tombSPAMTRAP@simarchitectSPAMTRAP.com (without the SPAMTRAP of course), if you need any help or have specific questions.

Have Fun!

Tom B.

Big Johnson

10-22-02, 13:18

Ricobd

Carnival.

Non-Pros. Take sexually open women give them a lot of alcohol and dress them in scanty cloths. I guess your chances improve.

Pros. Take a lot of tourists. Take out the part timers because they are parting too. Give the tourists a lot of alcohol. Supply goes down, demand goes up (even though there is plenty of free pussy around there are still those that think they would need to pay for it or will pay for the best.) If the free market system works this should mean prices go up (and usually do.) The biggest problem you might have is finding pros during carnival.

Rio or Sao Paulo

Both have celibrations but Rio is much bigger and more Famous. Most residents of Sao Paulo use the long weekend or extended holiday to leave. Definitely Rio.

Old Guy

Club W, I hear is good. Cafe Foto is probably the most famous and reliable. Try either which ever is closer. You find them creme de la creme of bar girls. You may find an ex-Playmate from Brazillian Playboy or minor celebrity from Brazillian TV.

You might find the good escorts in Folha do Sao Paulo also. Call the numbers under acompahantes. Look for those with adverised high prices. Most of these are really private (non-internet) agencies. Most will come to your hotel with a book of escorts. Again, these are going to be on the highest level. Most of these agencies are more discrete than the internet ones. I have this info from a friend who used to work with a Japanese car manufacturer. He used to be in charge of finding Pro's for Japanese execs and would often spend $1000 or $2000 US (before devaluation) for VP and Directors. I think you could convert those numbers to Reals and get an idea of the price range. Again this would be the very best and famous.

XXL

10-22-02, 22:04

Couples, strippers and wicked *****s

Has someone tried out calling in a couple from the ones who advertise on the Web? I don't mean two women ("duplas"), I mean a girl with her boy ("casais"). I get a kick from sitting down and watching when a good-looker gets it from her stud.

On thing I would like to know too : do motels have picture books with girls you can call? The idea would be to ckeck into a motel for a few hours instead of just for a quickie, and call one girl, then another, then maybe still another depending on how the first two turned out.

I'm planning to stay in a private flat, so I wouldn't have problems inviting girls in. All the same, the sex scene in Brazil is pretty wild drug-ridden, and some girls are likely to make trouble. I'd rather this happened in a motel where they can deal with such cases.

Thanks for any tips. I'll be in Sao Paulo the first three weeks of November, in case anyone would like to have a night on the town with me one day (I speak the lingo).

my e-mail : xxl_male@yahoo.fr

xxl

Big Johnson

10-23-02, 13:23

the couples are not really for you to watch (although you could do that) normally it is for you or you and a significant other to participate. not, my thing.

i asked one time about the abundance of transvestites coroas, bonecas, etc. why would you want sex (bj/anal) from a man dressed like a woman. what i was told is for the most part those that are interested want to catch, rather than pitch with the boneca. (if you catch my drift.) again not my speed.

in sao paulo, i haven't seen a lot of drugs in the upper end places or anywhere for that matter. never once has a garota offered, suggested, or gone to do drugs while she has been with me.

motels, at times, will offer company if you go to check in alone. i don't know if the upper scale ones will have a book. you can try. there are so many levels of motels from "drive inn" (just a parking space and a curtain) to super delux (pool, spa, fire place, etc.) that i think it is hit or miss. but a friend of mine told me if you really want a strange look, check in alone and say you don't want any company. he has done so to fend of the policia (his wife) by saying he went out of town on business, when he normally just went to some of the late night places mentioned all over this board.

drew2002

11-01-02, 19:38

I will be in Sao Paulo for a few days, and have gathered a lot of information from this forum. Thank you.

I have decided to spend what little time I have enjoying the massage parlors around Sao Paulo. It looks like the best ones are FranceBel, ClinicaMyWay, and CelCenter.

My question is, where is the best place to stay that is near these massage places? I am booked at the Hilton right now, but is there somewhere more convenient to these locations (the best hotel, aparthotel, or even just a neighborhood)?

Also, any other good massage parlor reccomendations would be appreciated.

Thanks
drew2002

Big Johnson

11-01-02, 21:18

There are two Hiltons in S/P but both are convient but expensive. But if you get points and enjoy the gringo service level then go for it.

Reserve your girl at France-bel in advance. There is an email and the receptionist reads and writes passable English. When you get there she may understand you if speak slowly but the process is simple enough to go through without any Portuguese.

Have a great time and give us a report. Thanks.

lookingforcutie

11-02-02, 08:17

Is prostitution legal in Brazil. I've seen street walkers in downtown SP and they're propositioning a few feet away from policia militar. I even got propositioned one.

Tomb

11-02-02, 21:45

prostitution is perfectly legal. procurement - pimping - is not.

that's why termas/saunas/clinicas work the way that they do, the houses are for "therapeutic services" and any sexual transaction that goes on is between you and the girl, not you and the house (as opposed to the traditional *****house, where you ae paying the house, not the girl).

tom b.

Athos

11-02-02, 22:09

Drew2002
You're in SP, try to make a bigger effort to get more time.
You can possibly add MilleCento, Aborabora to your mp's list.
If you can find more time, go to Bomboa, Bacos or soon to open Cafe Millenium. Good for Happy Hour or late night.
FranceBel seems to have the best lineup and good rep. It is BYOC (bring your own condom) or you will not get FS as sexo is not discussed by its management.
CelCenter has an awesome lineup on their web site.

Paolino

11-04-02, 22:23

1 question to you big experts (Athos, Tomb and BigJohn):

i went on the site of Francebel and Celcenter and asked them if the girls shown on the site were in the MP all day every day and they answered me YES; is that information reliable or do they have another lineup in reality than they show on internet?

I also asked about the prices and what they answered was "massagem relaxante 130R,....", in other words the prices shown on internet. Is a massagem really just a massage, or has it the full-service included in the price? what extras you have to pay (suite, FS)?

...and those 2 massage parlors have a really stunning lineup!!! made me wanna spend some more days in ugly SP during my next trip!

tanks alot guys!

Member #1698

11-05-02, 00:06

Athos, I'm going to be in Ba, Sampa, Rio in Feb.-March...can you favour the board with the web site URl's you referred to in yr. last Sampa post--eg Mil Cen, etc.?

Athos

11-05-02, 06:22

Paolino
I was a bit too vague about BYOC at FranceBel. It's a massage place as far as management is concerned. Garotas can be fired if any talk or proof of sex occured. Hence BYOC (bring you own condom). Garotas will offer extra after massage. So sex is very probable but not guaranteed.
Yes all the girls on the site do work but again the pictures are professionally done, FranceBel has good reputation for having a solid selection. Not all the girls are pictured.

A few mp's urls:
www.amcenter.com.br
www.advancevip.com.br
www.brooklinmassagem.com.br
www.berrinimassagem.com.br
www.clinicamyway.com.br
www.francebel.com.br
www.celcenter.com.br
www.dra-oyama.com.br
www.labellefemmemassagens.hpg.com.br
www.abbobora.com.br
www.millecento.com.br
www.eaubelle.com.br

Athos

11-06-02, 05:01

Paolino
130R is for massage and possibly manual relief. If you need oral or FS, garota will ask for extra. You pay her directly from 100 to 130R for FS.

MoonDog

11-06-02, 12:14

Gentlemen,

I heard some news about Cafe Foto that is not good. I have yet to verify it.

I met a girl from Foto about 6 months ago, and saw her again yesterday. She stated that business has been so slow that the owner has started charging the girls R$125 just to enter the club to be seen. This is for every girl and every time they enter, so that he can make up his losses.

Three girls from Foto have died this past week. One from being run over by a bus, another was killed by her boyfriend when she posed for photos for someone else. I have forgotten the reason for the third death.

At any rate, business has supposedly slowed down considerably. I have yet to go there since all of this has happened, but will report back in the next few weeks.

If anybody has any more information, please pass it on.

Moondog

Tomb

11-06-02, 22:23

MoonDog:

Yes, your information is correct. The big question is where have the Foto-quality girls gone to? No idea, but one possibilty is Romanza. One of our esteemed colleagues was asking me about it, here's a mini-review that I sent him:

OK, here's the scoop on Romanza. #1 They are expensive and generally the their cost is not worth the level of girls that they HAD there i.e. you can get better for less elsewhere. But, I say had because at least some of the girls there used to hop between there and Foto, so there is at least a possibility that the Foto exiles have gone to Romanza, certainly worth checking out. Now that being said, Romanza has two nasty habits - #1 they heavily discourage girls from giving out their phone numbers or doing deals on the side, they apparently have a price table that they "encourage" girls to work from (if true, they are on the hairyedge of the anti-pimping laws) #2 and worse, they tend to be creative with your bar tab, adding things that you didn't order and saying that a girl ordered them with your approval. So watch it. I'd give it a shot, but be careful.

That's it. Something to explore.

Tom B.

MoonDog

11-07-02, 00:58

Tomb,

I was in Romanza twice earlier this year, and made friends with a pretty girl who I still see from time to time. I always had a great time there, and never was over charged.

Times may have changed, and your advice is good for all clubs.

I will try a visit to Foto and Romanza next month,and will report back. There is also a new club that was supposed to open yesterday, called Cafe Millenium. I will have to check it out as well.

Moondog

Tomb

11-07-02, 01:53

Yes, Millenium opened the facilities are fantastic (a little bit over-the-top.. a manicurist?!?! waht for?), they have a great bar too, but the girls are so-so. All in all, Bomboas in Pinheiros is probably better. Nevertheless, once things settle down, it should be great.

Tom B.

MoonDog

11-07-02, 02:21

Ok, thanks.

Moondog

Kinesics

11-17-02, 03:31

I have not been in the loop for last three months or so. How does recent devaluation of Real impact the cost for evening hobby activity - cover charges (i.e. Cafe Photo or Bahamas) or fee for FS?

Exchange rate was approximately 2.9 to 3.0 to US$1.00 during my last visit in August. Pricing appeared to hold good as those of at the rate of 2.00 to 2.3 to US$1.

Now it is running at 3.6 to 1. I'm just curious as I'll be Sao Paulo for a few days starting this Friday for a week or so.

Please advise and thanks in advance.

MoonDog

11-17-02, 13:38

Off2Golf,

The prices for the hobby are the same in Real as before. It is just less expensive for us now.

Moondog

Fat Bastard

11-24-02, 06:05

Visited Cafe Foto for the first time ever and wanted to debrief all as well as clarify some things I have read in the last few posts.

The cover is R$158 and includes four drinks. I visited this past Tuesday night and the place was packed...men and women. Since this was my first time, I admit I have nothing to compare it to, but the women were plentiful and beautiful. Very.

They do not approach you and claim you as their own as they do in the Kilt, but if you without a woman, they will openly look at you. I was trying to check out about three hotties at once and was trying to do so without making eye contact....I just wanted to watch for a while and drink with my brother.

Moondog had heard from a friend that Foto had started charging each lady R$125 to enter. According to a tall asian (Luiza) employed my Foto, the ladies and Foto have a symbiotic relationship and nothing passes between the two parties.

The place has three floors. Ground and second have live entertainment (bands and floor shows) and the top/third has a huge screen TV and was quiet like a men's club with big soft chairs for talking a smoking cigars. A lot of these ladies spoke english and/or spanish. So if you "no fale portuguese," you probably can still find one to talk to....and if she doesn't, her friend will translate.

All in all...a great place.

Fatty

Paolino

11-24-02, 21:10

How can i get a date with one of the girls working in CelCenter or Francebel??? i understood that there was a more or less strict policy for what's going on INSIDE those MPs, but i think it should be possible to make up a RDV with one of the girls let's say paying here something like 100 or more for a couple of hours, or no? how about a GF-experience with those girls? anyone got some experience? any info welcome!

Tschuss

MoonDog

11-25-02, 00:20

FB,

Glad to hear the Foto was still good. Thanks for the info.

Moondog

Big Johnson

11-26-02, 15:15

Paolino,

YMMV. First, I think Celcenter will be easier than Francebel. If you want outside service, you are going to need a develop a trust. Yes, they are not supposed to offer on site services but they are available. It is important to BYOC (Bring your own condom.) If you talk alot during your session, you can develop this trust perhaps in 1 session but it will be hard. But, the best thing you can do is ask.

Remember a second thing most of the girls are committed to Francebel during all business hours so you need to plan on looking for this service outside of those hours which means Sunday or before 10 AM or after 9 PM.

Good luck and let us know how things work out.

XXL

11-28-02, 22:52

Back from SP.

1 US $ = 3.56 real

First tip : forget about Internet call-girls. I had worked up an appetite collecting phone numbers from many of the girls advertised on the Web. Most numbers were no longer valid.

Second tip: call-girls who advertise in Folha de Sao Paulo or Diario de Sao Paulo (acompanhantes) are not a good choice either. Problem is, you don't see the girls before you order, and they know that. I called one who advertised herself as a "bold Japanese" (japonesa=nissei=Brazilian girls with Asian blood). She was just plain ugly. Much better to go places at night and see the goods beforehand.

There is an upmarket place called "Kiuti" or something like that (rua Nestor Pestana, Consolaçao district, from the outside the place has an architecture that makes it look like a medieval castle). Lots of stunning girls (though much silicon). There are strip shows and girls can be invited upstairs for a private strip (50 reals, but you have to pay the girl a drink first so that the house gets its cut). I guess you can exchange phone numbers once you're alone with the girl, though I didn't do that. Mine had acid eyes and stopped at the toilet on the way up (to get another sniff, most probably). Be careful with paying drinks around because this is what drives the final bill up. There are two or three other places in the same street. I visited two, but they can't compare to Kiuti.

If you like sleazy sex like me, SP has a surprise in store: X-rated cinemas where girls walk around the rows to offer services. Very cheap. Some cinemas have makeshift rooms somewhere in the building where you can retire with the girl for more comfort (though Spartan it remains, and not too clean either). There is even some activity in toilets. Some cinemas have strip shows alternating with the movies. Others again are in the hands of transvestites. TV and women are mutually exclusive in Brazil (this also applies to street prostitution): where you find the ones, you don't find the others. Those cinemas are in the Praça da Republica area: go to the crossing between avenida Ipiranga and rua Sao Joao and walk in any direction from there. One last tip: the cinemas that advertise "dark rooms" are gay places (men only, or men+TV).

These cinemas are cheap places for locals, so don't expect anyone to speak English. They open early (9 a.m., though the girls may not be there before noon) and can be visited in the daytime. A good thing if you're paranoid about crime after dark.

In summary, SP is a place teeming with commercial sex. The emphasis, however, is on commercial. Even if you speak Portuguese, it is not easy to get the girl interested in anything except sex-for-money so you may be disappointed if you look for a girlfriend type of relationship. Also: King Condom reigns supreme, even in the sleaziest of places. Indeed, it seems that using a condom is the very essence of sex and that you're actually having sex in order that a condom can be sacrificed to whatever Gods relish in such things. I called one of the couples from a WebSite to my room just to see them fuck and -surprise, surprise- they wanted to fuck together with a condom, although the guy told me he was living together with the girl. Motels show some Brazilian X-rated movies: very good scenes, but fucking is with condoms! Do Brazilian men use condoms with their sweethearts? Wouldn't be surprised.

A bit sad. So many stunnung girls in Brazil and to think that virutally none of them has done a real blowjob in her life, let alone take the load in her mouth.

Let the Arabs fuck without condom, have ten children each and take over the world. We Christians are on the way out.

xxl

Kinesics

11-29-02, 06:26

I just got back home this morning, timely for Thanksgiving!

I was in S.P. for five days - Saturday arrival and Wednesday departure. As I have been benefited through this forum, I would like to report the trip. Advance apology for lengthy write-up.

Background of this trip

I have a personal friend of mine who is Brazilian. He owns business, or accurately runs family business in S.P. My evening entertainment in S.P. has been led and shown by him most of cases, except a few occasions which were led by the local staff of my company’s subsidiary.

Saturday

Had a lunch with his girlfriend and her family in appearing authentic Japanese restaurant in Japanese town in S.P. She went home with her family and he suggested rejuvenation through good massage. He drove to FranceBel.

I would guess that at least 30 or so women were working and about 20 or so were busy. This was about 3:00 p.m. or so. Most of them were great looking ladies, at least in picture. Even the staff told my friend that most of pictures were somewhat enhanced. I said honesty counts and adjusted my expectation. I found the difference between the pictures and the real not disappointingly wide. The cost of one full hour was still R$130.00. The lady whom I picked had no problem to provide me full services without going into details of pricing of such. However, She was more interested in making sure that the door was locked so no one could come in while nothing but massage was going on. She also wanted to make sure that I did not talk about this extra service. Surprisingly, she hid a condom in her bra. This confirmed many reporting of the rule of no sex with the clients but having sex with the clients goes routinely provided mutually discussed and agreed. Her service was 10 and worked hard from massage to FS to show together to more massage for one full hour. I offered her R$100.00 which was taken by her with a big smile on her face and a juicy kiss on my lip. The place was clean, big, run professionally by courteous staff.

Had a dinner at Figueira. Great outdoor place to have a dinner with friends and family. I could tell the place is for well-to-do folks in S.P. Food appeared pricey in S.P. standards but no big deal for strong US dollars. Bill for great food and drinks was R$160 ($46) for two. If you need details (phone number and address) of this place, please post on this board, I will let you know.

He took me to his home base – Café Photo – around 10:30 p.m.
Entrance fee on Saturday is R$100.00 which comes with two national drinks – this was clearly and visibly posted as you get off your car. He was welcomed by just about everyone from valet staff to the counter at the door to various waiters inside. I also was welcomed as his guest. He walked in free, so did I.

He stocks his various liquors and a waiter know what to bring out – frequent loyal client has some advantage in this place. Not many ladies worked on Saturday, as many of you hobbyists know. Not many married man with money would be able to find the business excuses leaving lovely wives and kids behind at home.

My buddy found me a girl – 27 years old, natural dirty blond, about 5’5” with no fat on any part of her body which has small parts – breast, hips, and there down below as well - suits me perfect. This was the case of ‘what goes around comes around’. I treated her with utmost care at the club and in my hotel room as I normally do with the women of the night. She initially agreed to go to my hotel and stayed for two hours at R$350.00. She ended up staying with me till next morning. I’m kind of an old guy and one passionate making love is good enough for me, so we did the exact led by her. After 30 minutes or so, she shyly asked me whether I would like to do it again. What a silly question and she led yet another great session. I gave her R$400.00 for such great GFE time.

She left me with her real name (first and last), home number and mobile number. She wanted to make sure that I call her when I return to S.P. Don’t ask me to share her information as I agreed not to do so with her.

What a great day to start a quick trip to S.P!

Two things for you hobbyists out there.
Treat a woman like your own then you will get many folds of dividends for your emotional investment.

Going rate at the club was about R$400.00

I’ll post Monday and Tuesday outings later.

Kinesics

11-29-02, 06:56

Monday

Had a very long and busy day at work and then took most of the local staff of the subsidiary, which took me into 10:30 p.m. I was too tired to drive another 45 minutes to visit Fazendinha in Campinas and knew another full schedule ahead of me next day but wanted to have some action, which led me to Café Trevi. I reported this place many months ago in old forum.

Nothing has really changed since my last visit in early this year. Entrance fee and bar fine were reduced to R$30 on each from R$40 on each. I could not make it out of why, may be unstable economic situation?

It is small but nice place for definitely local folks while those foreigners visiting their subsidiaries and branch plants go to Fazendinha. Most of the ladies appeared nice and younger crowd. I spent some time with a young lady who was able to communicate with me in English and she was easily agreeable to come to my hotel for an hour or two at R$150. The lady asked me to take a shower together, voluntary BBBJ and then enjoyable final action.

If you will be in Campinas and want to have simple and quick entertainment (strip show and ladies), this might be the place for you. If your evening can stay as young as you would like to, Fazendinha is the place. The Café Trevi does not provide on premises facility, only option is either motel or own hotel room.

There is one massage parlor in Campinas near the soccer stadium. The place was not my cup of tea from the perspectives of ladies and the place in general. If you are bargain hunter, this might be the place. R$30 for one hour massage and FS is to be negotiated with the girl. I never got to neither massage nor the negotiation part. I turned around and left.

As usual of the massage places, this place has no sign of any kind. Again, this appeared to be the place for local folks. If you are interested in the information, please post such. I’ll get the information for you.

There is also sauna place in Campinas, which I had no opportunity to visit per the advice from a local staff. What was described to me about this place reminded me of the termas in Rio, might be in grandier and nicer setting. I’m not too fond of straight ***** houses.

J Wadd

11-30-02, 10:44

Excellent reports, OFF2GOLF. I look forward to returning to S.P and try this aspect of her that I missed last time.

Thanks for your work.

Happy Hunting,
JWadd

Kinesics

11-30-02, 23:47

Reporting for Tuesday outing – last installment

At the dinner, I suggested friend of mine to visit the club W for the evening’s entertainment as the club was fairly close from the restaurant. He indicated that the club W is still one of the high end clubs in S.P. but the club has been slow and empty lately. He said that ladies in the club W are fine ones and typically demand about R$600 for FS. By the way the restaurant where we dined is one of my favorites in S.P. - Jardineira Grill which is supposed to be one of the best churrascarias in S.P. If you are interested in the place, I’ll post the information.

So we ended up in Café Photo again around 9:30 p.m. Hobbyists and ladies were arriving in rapid pace. I found an interesting scene.

There was a question on this board many months ago of whether ladies in Café Photo would pay the house to get in. Answer was unanimously negative. Similar question was raised again recently and the answer was also negative.

Since the friend of mine was such good and well-known client in Café Photo, he was shooting breeze with the folks at the counter right outside of the entrance door. So was I standing by him. As ladies were arriving, they gave a folded color paper to a guy behind the counter. Then the guy gave a few Reais back to the ladies. I assumed what’s inside of the wrapper was money whatever the purpose of it was and I would not even guess the amount. As the change given to ladies was small, I again assumed that money ladies paid to house is also relatively small amount.

The place was filled well already with men and women, may be ratio of four to one. The club’s scene on Tuesday was many folds better than that of Saturday and I enjoyed the scene and conversation with several women.
A friend of my buddy came in and had mutual introduction. He asked me whether I was in Bomboa club before and answered no. He said Bomboa club was his base and would like to buy me a drink in his club.

It was opened a little bit more than a year ago and was a combination of terma (which is popular in Rio) and the clubs in S.P. A young lady gave me a tour of the facility. It has Japanese sushi bar and Brazilian food as well. It has a fair size whirlpool and resting chairs while 40 suites over two floors for the client’s pleasure. Each suite is again good size and clean as well. A man with Japanese heritage owns this club and I were introduced to him. He was soft-spoken and well-mannered guy.

The Bomboa had a four-men band playing various music throughout the night and also dance floor for clients and ladies. Quality of women in the club is one half click below Café Photo or Bahamas but they showed a lot more skins and were expressively more suggestive. In other words, ladies had no issue to wrap men around, kissing, touching and the likes. This club had atmostphere of ‘let’s have great time’ which was a bit different from Café Photo, W, or Bahamas.

Waiter found me a young girl who was able to communicate with me in English. I ended taking her for pleasure at my hotel. R$70 for cover and $50 for bar fine which I found as I was taking a girl back to my hotel. I would not be able to tell you about the drinks as the friend of my buddy had his own bottle at the club. Going rate for FS at premises was R$200.00 so I agreed to give R$400.00 for the evening at my hotel.

As I reported a couple of days ago, she was also great GFE all the way around. She agreed to stay until 6:00 a.m. and ended up leaving hotel at 10:15 a.m. by my request as the car service was supposed to pick me up at 10:30 a.m. We had great sex three times. Two were per my request and the third per the girl right before her departure. She gave me her mobile and home numbers for future meetings. Again, treating woman with genuine care would make the evening more enjoyable.

A few more things and then I’ll go away until next trip reporting.

My buddy and his friend were bragging about the club “connection’ which I never seen or heard in this board. They promised me to take to the Connection upon my next trip to Brazil. If they bragged about it, I know it would be great place to visit. Any intelligence on this club?

The girl I was with said that a new club “Millennium” is also very good. It might be too young but worthwhile to check it out.

If you need any detail information (address, website, telephone number), please let me know. I’ll be more than happy to post them in here.

Iseki

11-30-02, 23:57

Off2golf, Did you get to golf any? Sorry, it may not be the right subject matter, but sure is nice to do both.

MoonDog

12-01-02, 01:02

OFF2GOLF,

Thanks for the indepth report. Good information. :)

Kinesics

12-01-02, 16:58

To: Iseki

Even though I did not have time to play a round, I visited Paradise Golf and Resort located in Mogi city. Mogi is located about one hour or so, I would say north from S.P. Going from S.P. is to take the major highway towards Rio which passes the S.P. International Airport, and then another 30 minutes or so.

When I visited the place, not a single soul was planing golf which was beyond my imagination. Layout of the course appeared very nice and the course condition including greens were surprisingly reasonable, which you would find at reasonaible public courses in US.

As it is the resort type of facility and the course should be available to public. I did not ask the green fee and can't help you. At current strong dollar exchange rate, the green fee would not be terribly expensive for me.

I don't believe there are many golf courses in or near S.P. as the sport has been limited to very small number of people. My buddy has begun to practice the game. He asked me to bring my clubs next visit so we can hack around a little bit.

What is really ideal for me is to take a few days off in S.P. so I can play a round or two of golf during the day, relax in the afternoon and then go out in the evening. Repeat this a few days then I would be in heaven. I had done this in Malaysia and Thailand a few years ago and the experience was awesome.

If you need the information about this golf club, I'll get it for you.

peter panochito

12-02-02, 05:13

off2golf,

great reports. I'll be going to brasil in less than 3 weeks. I'll be in rio and s. paulo. Please let me know where bomboa is located and also, if you can find out, where this club "connection" you write about is located also. I'm very interested in these 2 places. I've been to romanza, cafe photo, and bahamas before, and would like to check out W, millenium, and bomboa this time around. I appreciate the help.

Kinesics

12-03-02, 05:48

Peter,

Bomboa is located at Rua Capote valente 222 - Pinheiros - S.P.
(11)3064-6494 and (11)3063-2944. As the street name indicates, it is off the main road which I have no clue as my buddy drives me around in his car way into the night. I know one thing that it is located in fairly afluent area (Pinheiros) and is also fairly close to Ibirapuera park near from which my hotel was.

Club W is lcoated at Rua Alvorada, 550 - Vila Olimpia - S.P. (11) 3845-2725. It is a couple of block off from the Jadrineira Grill (one of my favoriates in S.P.) located at Av. Dos Bandeirantes 1001 - Vila Olimpia - S.P. (11) 3845-0299. I think you would be even able to walk to the W from the grill.

Milenium is located at Rua Coronel Diogo 1199 - Jd da Gloria - S.P. Telephone number is 0800-7756969. This club has been open only for a month or so and I never been there. Therefore, I would not know what to expect even though the girl I was with said it is good club. I'm looking forward to read your report.

I'll get you the information for the Connection. This may take a while as I have to get it from my buddy in S.P.

Hope the information helps and enjoy when you can!

peter panochito

12-04-02, 01:05

off2golf,

thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated. let me know if you find out anything about club connection.

Kinesics

12-04-02, 04:14

Peter,

Connection Night Club is located at Av. Dr. Eduardo Cotching, 1.178 - Tatuapé - S.P. and phone number is (11) 6674-4702.

This club was described to me as an entertainment complex gear towards hobbysts. It has Chuascarria, swimming pool, pool tables and games, and of course American bar for strip shows and girls, about 120 of them. The cover is somewhere $R40 or so but this number seems somewhat low compared to other facilities in S.P.

I don't think the club would not be elegant and classy as Cafe Photo, W or Bahams, but would be appropriate place for having fun by eating, drinking, playing, and personal entertainment with the girl of your choice.

Hope this helps and would like to hear about your take on this place.

lookingforcutie

12-04-02, 10:33

Where are the low cost sw in SP and how safe are they to fuck.

Big Johnson

12-05-02, 21:01

off 2 golf

great report and i agree with you on francebel and bomboa. i had several great experiences there as well. which girl did you go with at francebel? by the way the cover at bomboa includes upto 70r of drinks. but i had the simular gfe there.

cuties

you can find sw on augusta just near the paulista after 10 pm. as a point of reference use the brazilton hotel. there should be 100 or 200 out there each night. although tv activity is low in this area, i would be cautious around anything that looks too good to be true. you might find extra baggage or someone ****. most of the decent looking girls from this area will probably migrate to the clubs on nestor pastor, like kilt (kiuties) or cocktail. you might want to look in places like the newspapers or the saunas near there rather than approaching the sws. your choice.

Kinesics

12-06-02, 05:24

Big J

I had great time with Kelly at FranceBel.

BTW, the buddy of mine told me while we were in FranceBel that there is another great place (like FranceBel) in Morumbi area and he suggested we should visit them before my departure, but unfortunately I had so little time to cover such vast beauty and pleasure at my disposal. I had to leave them behind and list them for next visit. Would you know this massage place in Morumbi?

Big Johnson

12-06-02, 14:51

Was the place in Morumbi Advance Vip? I love that place. Same as Fracebel but with the girl I selected, no massage. The girls of Fracebel are beautiful but they also give a great "real" massage. That is the differentiator. Here is the web link for Advance VIP

http://www.advancevip.com.br/

Dudeman

12-09-02, 20:10

Was in Sao Paolo overnight to catch a plane early the next morning. I did not want to try to go downtown and then back so stayed at a hotel near the International Airport. I knew that I was going to miss out on the hot SP garotas but did not want to take the hour cab ride downtown (and did not want to pay for the cab ride either).

Lucky for me, the bartender at the hotel hooked me up with a boate that was nearby. The place was called Monika or something like that. The place sent a car to pick me up (at no cost). The girls were all ugly and fat. I knew that I was in for a rough night. Drinks were reasonable for me but expensive for girl drinks. Was getting ready to leave when I spotted a cute petite blonde. I like brazilian women a lot but have a particular fondness for petite blondes and this chick fit the bill. Her name is Fernanda and she is from somewhere along the coast of the state of Sao Paolo.

After some petty conversation, I decided to take this girl to the sack. The boate had decent rooms (tv, shower, decent bed, etc). I decided upon two hours since I like taking my time.

I had some of the best sex I have had in my life with this girl. The two hours went by very quickly and we did everything that was possible between man and woman. This chick was hot and just likes sex. I have seen very few garotas actually get wet but she was dripping. She gave excellent head (took it all to the base).

Since this was my last night in Brazil for a little while, I decided to splurge a little bit and asked if she would do a threesome. She was obliging and called for one of her friends. In came, Vanessa a blonde with big breasts. We quickly got down to business. You know sometimes in a threesome the girls do not interact with each other but rather are independent. Not these two chicks, they got off on each other and I was the lucky guy stuck between two horny garotas.

Needless to say, this experience ranks up there as one of the best. If you are in the vicinity of the Sao Paolo International airport, then I would definitively recommend giving Fernanda a call. Fernanda is a typical southern Brazilian garota, blonde and petite. Her cell number is (011) 99915820. She is willing to meet somewhere else which should reduce the price since you are not paying the house now. If you call her, tell her David from Bolivia sends his regards.

Fat Bastard

12-10-02, 14:55

Dudeman,

Nice post and good info. Sometimes I stay close to the airport. How much did these two ladies ask for their services?

Thanks

FB

Dudeman

12-10-02, 17:57

FB,

I think the price was something like 150 reais per hour. Keep in mind though that the money was paid to the house for their kickback, then for the rental of the "room," and then finally whatever the house pays the girls.

I am certain that they would charge less on the outside. This boate seemed to be cool with the chicks leaving so I would assume that if you give Fernanda a call, she would meet somewhere. I stayed at the Caesar Park and I think they only wanted 50 reais to bring a girl up to the room.

Since this was really my first time dealing with garotas in SP, I was not sure what a decent price was. That said, I would gladly have paid double for the experience that Fernanda and then Fernanda and Vanessa gave me. It is one of those things that you will always remember in your life.

Forgot to put this in the first post, but if you like a slightly stockier girl then give Vanessa a call at (013) 97876544. She is not the petite blonde that Fernanda is but different strokes for different folks.

Hope that helps.

Adam Bomb

12-11-02, 07:20

Help me, please.
I am a semi-frequent visitor to Rio, but haven't yet experienced Sao Paulo, save for the airport.

I am planning a short stay there in January - 3 or 4 days. Can someone provide a synopsis/breakdown on where i should be staying and what is absolutely necessary to see/do there? I'm currently reading the archives, but is there a consensus on what are the ultimate clubs, termas, boites, etc.? Areas/(guestfriendly) hotels? Going rates?

As a frame of reference, in Rio I've been staying at the Roiss, Debret, Marriott, and Luxor.... And frequent Centaurus, Monte Carlo, 4x4, Barbarella, etc.

Also, I don't get a good feeling from what's been written about the internet agencies. Are any good/reliable?

Thanks, in advance,
ADB

Adam Bomb

12-11-02, 08:34

Ce Jay:

You posted a query about a "model" on a site (http://www.onemodelplace.com/model_list.cfm?ID=8802). I know the post is old (July?), but i haven't seen a response to it. Just wanted you to know, in case you haven't found out already - the girl in the photo is a (super)model named Megan Douglas. She's not Brasilian, and certainly not an escort.

J Wadd

12-11-02, 09:07

Adam Bomb:

Sounds like a lot of fun. In three-four days, you can (reasonably) do it all). Though I can afford it, I don't generally stay in the nicest hotels because there seems to be less acceptance on bringing a girl back. Therefore: I stayed at Hotel Itimarati a coupla blocks up from the B of A. Unlike Rio (where you can walk around at night under reasonable security), S.Pl. is not quite as safe. I took taxis everywhere so location wasn't vital. I got this hotel out of Lonely Planet. Don't worry about a hotel too much, there're plenty of sex-motels about in every corner of S.P.

As for sex: Definitely go to Cafe Foto. It's maybe the best clubs of its kind in the world. It really is that bigtime. Also check out Bahamas.

For me, a nice plus was a vital and safe street walking scene (as scene I love). Check out my old (original) post on S.P. a few years ago for a better discussion of that.

As for the other bar/clubs, I never went to them. I was satisifed w/ Foto and the streets.

Campinas, though, does sound like fun. Next time I'm down there I'm going to hire a driver and go to that club for the evening.

Have fun and let it all roll. Great sex/accomodations in S.P. are a cinch.

One man's opinion,
JWadd

Big Johnson

12-11-02, 15:26

A/B

J Wadd gave you some good places. Here are some more.

Bomboa is good. Here is their website. www.bomboa.com.br.

It is a terma like Rio. 70R entrance but it applied to your bar bill, 50R for the room or salida, and 150 - 200R to the girl. The selection is very good from Monday - Friday. Weekends are slower. My take out from here stayed from midnight until 1 PM the next day for 250R.

Francebel is a great massage. It is BYOC (Bring [and dispose] your own condom.) 100R tip will get you FS or possibly complete. The massage is about 120R. The massage is real and it always includes hand release.

Other good places are:

Club W
Romanza
The Pizzaria
Kilt

Kilt has onsite rooms and a sex show on the stage and the bar. Except for Club W, the cost will be about the same 150 - 200R. Club W costs will be 600R+.

This will give you the best action. If you are looking to go lower end, check out clubs and MPs on Rua Augusta and Santo Amaro.

Hope this helps.

CeJay

12-11-02, 21:07

Adam Bomb

Thanks for answering that old question. I did not know that was Meghan Douglas (didn't know of her till now) though I should have been suspicious seeing the differing quality of the photos. My assumption is the high quality non-nude shot is MD while the the other three pictures (nude) are the brazilian girl.

My trip this year got cancelled but I remember fondly my initial trip to SP back in 2000. I did my first double with some girls from an unknown club on Rua Agusta. Took them back to my hotel the Maksoud. $50 to each girl for all night and it is true what they say about the brazian women...and I could not keep up. I was proud of the three pops I delivered but the one girl was not satisfied. The hotel presented no problem for the girls. They took their ID and charged me $10 or $15 additional.

On my return trip I was hoping to go upscale but didn't get the chance. My real question was about the clubs the "model" mentioned, Cafe Photo, L.OVE and LOVESTORY. Photo is well know but the others I have not heard about.

Have fun

CeJay

Athos

12-14-02, 09:29

CeJay
Love is a non pickup boate but music is considered the best in Sampa among garotas.
Love Story is a pickup boate where you can find left over garotas at the wee hour.

Adam
Was in Sampa recently for first time.
Yes always stay away from agencies as a general rule but do not eliminate free lancers from Malicia web site altogether.
BigJohnson and J Wadd have covered the main places for Sampa. My favorites were Bomboa and W.
I had a very good time overall in Sampa and recommend for mongering. 4 days is perfect for Sampa, you'll be busy and will want to come back for more.
Most or all hotels are garotas friendly...stay in Pinheiros, Moema or Jardims.
No need to pay more than 200R for any garota so it will require some haggling at Photo and Bahamas.
Hope you spreak some Portuguese.

drew2002

12-17-02, 16:35

I found two good links here that have reviews of massage clinics, night clubs, independents, basically a little of everything. It is all in Portuguese, but its not impossible to find your way around. The first link also has a section with the names of all massage clinics in Sao Paulo, a link to their websites and any associated reviews. Check them out:

http://freeforum.forumgp.hostpacket.net/gpguia/phpbb2/

http://br.*************************garotasdeprograma/

I also have three questions. I will be in Sao Paulo for a couple of days after the new year - my first trip there.

1. I want to check out Cafe Foto, et. al., but hear these places are dead on the weekends. Unfortunately, I'll only be in Sao Paulo from Friday through Sunday. Should I forget about Foto and others like it if I can only go on the weekend?

2. I want to experience the 4 hands massage at Francebel, Celcenter, Advance, etc. Is it possible to pick any two girls, or are there only certain girls that will do a double massage together?

3. Finally, anyone have a recent experience with a particularly hot girl at any of the massage clinics whom they might recommend?

Thanks for the information, and I hope those links provide some fun.

Drew2002

Tomb

12-18-02, 00:41

Guys:

Who just had a session within the last week with Meyre Gueixa in Sao Paulo? She sent me an email today thanking me for the "referral." Damn, I should start taking a comission... well, I'll get it out of her in BJ's ;-) . Anway, whoever it was, your name is "Fr----", you are from SoCal, and of Korean descent (just to jog your memory next time you see yourself in the mirror). I'm glad you had a good time, and you owe us a trip report! Start writing, buddy! ;-)

Cheers!

Tom B.

Kinesics

12-18-02, 02:48

To all S.P. night scene experts

I would welcome your opinion or experiences on my thought below.

While I love to go out and have great time every evening, it is sometimes not possible due to various reasons - work schedule next morning, don't feel good, catching up work in the evening and the likes.

Then I conceived a thought that find a fine girl who suites me like a glove (beauty, body figure, personality, crazy about making love) and let her be my local girfriend when I visit S.P. a few times year. Of course, I'm wiiling to provide generous financial rewards to her for the service. It is outside of my concern what she does with her own time while I'm not in S.P.

If I can find a garota de programma who works part time in one of high-end clubs, this proposition may work. One whom I met at Cafe Photo about three weeks ago was part timer there. I had great time with her and she gave me her home number and mobile number and so on (it is not relevant to go into the details here). She or someone like her fits my bill.

I thought it is great for me that a beauty is readily available while being in S.P. or warms up the bed when I return from work. Then if I'm in mood to taste something different, then I move on which is an equal opportunity to the girl as well.

Only one minor problem that I can see is my inability to converse in Portuguese. Having this type or arrangement may need more that pure desire of having sex.

Has anyone done this or is this feasible for a gringo who can't speak Portuguese?

Tomb

12-18-02, 06:05

Off2Golf:

You need to learn portuguese... if nothing else, just to nbegotiate the arrangement, and then to keep her in line while in SP. Other than that it's a perfectly common arrangement, as always, Uncle Benjamin will pave the way....

If you want any further help, I'd be happy to discuss it "offline", my email is tombSPAMTRAP#simarchitectSPAMTRAP.com (without the SPAMTRAP, of course).

Tom B.

DogDays

12-19-02, 17:03

Tombs- Would l be able to get a book at the airport duty free shops that has portuguese and English phrase/passable portuguese that will help me conduct my everyday mongering bussiness while in Brazil?Please help?

XXL

12-19-02, 18:38

here are some bits you won't find in a phrase book:

garota = girl

garota de programa = (polite phrase for) hooker

o programa = what the girl will do for money (litteraly: "the program")

cuanto custa o programa? = what will it cost me?

cual è o cachê = same as above

o cachê = the actual price, the "fee"

completa = who does anal

você è completa? = (polite phrase for) do you do anal?

boneca = transvestite who looks just like a woman

transar = to make love

camisinha = condom

transar com (sem) camisinha = fuck with (without) a condom

faz dominação? = do you do "domination"? (in brazil, this usually means the woman puts on a dildo and f**ks the man)

bumbum = butt

bumbum gostoso = nice tailend

corpo violão = hour-glass figure (litteraly: body like a guitar)

popozuda = big-butted

com cinturinha fina = thin-waisted

bater punheta = do a hand job

chupar = do a blow job

o caralho, o cacete = cock, dick

a xereca = pussy, fanny

dedo na bunda = finger in the **se

gozar = to come, to orgasm

porra = cum (slang word)

nissei = brazilian girls with asian blood

morena = brunette

loira = blonde

coroa = mature woman

ninfetinha = [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901), teen

tem identidade? = do you carry some i.d.?

of course, this still leaves the pronounciation to be negotiated. portuguese phonetics is not as straightforward as spanish phonetics.

MoonDog

12-19-02, 23:57

Off2golf,

Find one who speaks English as well. They are out there,and when you find one, it is a challenge and a lot of fun.

Enjoy the life,

Moondog

Vampyr

12-20-02, 00:18

The pimsleur cd's in portuguese are a real help and you can get it for a pretty good value it your buying a used set. You can also get by if you know spanish, but you will still have a hard time(still better than english, i guess). I'm sure you will find one OFF2GOLF, maybe you should also try picking up girls from the trendy local discos, or any of the local discos and bars, if you don't want to have a hardcore professional as a brasilian girlfriend, depending on your taste.

Kinesics

12-20-02, 04:54

I appreciate your input and feedback. Verdict is for me to learn Portuguese and I'll try.

Vampyr,

You brought up a very good point which I'm certainly interested in keeping a semi-pro or non-pro as my local girlfriend. Granted it is largely up to me, however what would be success probability to secure one with fairly tight schedule - typically five day trip? In other words, what level of investment (time) would induce the interest from the girls?

Please recommend a few nice trendy disco clubs or bars for next trip.

Surfer

12-30-02, 08:57

JUST BACK FROM A GREAT TIME IN SAMPA

Not being able to afford the Renaissance ($176 plus tax was best deal I found, and many websites asked $250+), I looked for a good 3 star close by and found an absolute gem on travelocity for $40. The Comfort Hotel on 363 Alameda Casa Branca (Tel. 5511-283-0066,m fax 5511-283-0181, Email chpaulista@atlantica-hotels.com, website atlantica-hotels.com ) is TERRIFIC value at $40 a night, and I think the location is even better than Renaissance (about 5 minutes away). In room safe, cable TV, great AC, the best shower ever in a hotel, internet (R1.25 per 15 minutes though). HIGHLY recommended. The dreaded R50 garota charge is applied here as well. Nonetheless, IMHO a great value for $40 (the sign said rate was R200 for regular room), so you can imagine my surprise (pleasant) when I got the bill and I was only charged R80 per night (about $21). A steal at that rate, and they gave it to me for both nights I stayed even though I had booked the first night at the higher travelocity rate. VERY pleasant indeed.

Walk one block up the hill and you are at Triannon Park, a large & lovely urban green zone. Walk one block further up the hill and you are at the MASP (Museum of Art Sao Paulo) on Avenida Paulista, THE swankiest shopping street in the metro area and full of nice restaurants & stores. MANY absolute stunners walking, shopping and chatting here. There is a MacDonalds on Ave. Paulista about 2 blocks to your left that offers free internet access (3 terminals available) to all customers (never seen that at Mickey D’s before).

The highlite of my visit to Sampa was Club Bomboa, one of the very best “nightclubs” I have had the pleasure of visiting. 222 Rua Capote Valente (Tel. 11-3064-6494 & 11-3063-2944)in the Pinherios area, adjacent to the University of Sao Paulo (close to the start of Avenida Paulista where it intersects with Avenida Reboucas-a 5 to 7 minute taxi ride from Comfort Hotel). Consolocao is nearest Metro station.

R70 minimum consumption (I never exceeded it), plus R50 cabine charge. OK Buffet, live music (which was quite good, Brazilians are the World’s most musically inclined nationality IMHO), periodic sex shows where some guy in the audience would kiss the kitty of the featured dancer (so to speak). There is a sauna and jacuzzi room upstairs, many semi-private VIP rooms and booths, and TONS of friendly and scantily clad GORGEOUS GAROTAS! Some English is spoken in this so called “American Bar”. The girls adeptly tread the fine line between being interactive and forward yet without being pushy. GREAT ambiance with a group of quality punters in a place packed with available talent, a fine evening indeed.

By all accounts, Sampa clubs are better during the week than on weekends because so many Paulistanos (inhabitants of the city, to be contrasted with the more common “Paulistas” which describes everybody from the STATE of Sao Paulo) bail on the weekends to go to beaches near Santos or Guaruja, or to go to farms & ranches in the cooler highlands areas (“campos do jordao”). I was quite impressed with the Friday night offerings, but am not opposed to returning midweek for comparative research purposes.

After remaining noncommittal despite several intriguingly indecent proposals, I locked eyes with the very alluring Mary Ann from Belo Horizonte (pronounced, in her cute Mineira accent, as BELL-ow Hori-ZONCHEE). Once my friend went upstairs to see if he could heat up an ice princess whom had remained somewhat frosty despite major inbar lip locking, I realized that the time to act decisively was at hand. This dovetailed nicely with Mary Ann’s apparently concurrent decision to pull out the stops in convincing me to be her namorada pra noite (BF for the evening), which she succeeded in by offering a quick sample of certain pleasures to be rendered later so we were quickly off to the Comfort of Comfort Hotel. And boy was it comfortable. For what it is worth, I asked her how much for all night and she replied R300 (I thought the offer reasonable and did not bargain-I was not disappointed).

An awesome & active night and morning was had by all (she left at noon). As the pictures will reveal, she was not shy about showing her beautiful body except for her great (and substantial) breasts, of which she was VERY self conscious. If she only knew how much American women paid to have hooters like hers, alas she covered the lovely lumps in every photo. But they sure felt and tasted delicoso. We REALLY clicked & I got her cell number (When she left she called me “Otimo”-I asked if it meant good (“bom”) and she said “better than good”. Found out later it means something like “cool”. I fully expected to honor my promise to spend my last night in Brasil with her (my return flight was from GRU), but then Rio intervened.

Saturday dawned with amazingly blue skies (for an industrialized city of 17 million). My luck on the weather had been great so far. Had lunch with a friend while we watched MANY scantily clad stunners pass by on the sidewalk inches from our table. We flirted with a couple and they were very friendly and snuck glances back at us over their shoulders as they passed. Brazilian women, from the unlawfully young to the unnaturally old, all seem to have no compunction whatsoever about going about dressed like total sluts. God bless them!

We discussed where to go and he suggested trying Bomboa in the daytime. During the daytime, Bomboa becomes a terma where you wear robes and sandals. Not as happening as the night before, IMHO, but still not halfway bad. Same cost, BUT be advised that they close at 9 pm on Saturdays! Closed on Sundays. I ended up with a cute 21 YO blonde from Sampa with whom I had a nice time, albeit not as spectacular as with Mary Ann the night before. My friend left that night, and I used the chance to get my first real night’s sleep since arriving. It started POURING rain just as I started walking back to the hotel, so I hoped in a cab to keep from getting too drenched.

Sunday was another lovely day, and I made plans to catch the 4 pm flight to Rio from Conghonas (the domestic airport in SP which is MUCH closer to the hotel than GRU). But having the early afternoon free, I wanted to go wandering around and boy was that a fortuitous decision.

The experienced traveler knows that it is a truism to say many of the best experiences are totally unplanned and arise from happenstance. These are places or events not written up in any tourist guide. The Sunday Antique & Craft fair under and across from the MASP is just such an event. As I reached Avenida Paulista on my daily walk up the hill, I noticed 100s of small artisan booths lined up on either side of the Avenue. The diversity of items on sale was incredible, from antique jewelry, military decorations, swords, currency, silverware, scrolls, books etc, to paintings, sculpture, clothing, plants, hammocks, glass objects, music CDs, you name it and it was there. There were also many food stands offering a variety of items ranging from chow mein, feijado (Brazilian national drink), caldo do cana (sugarcane juice)to all sorts of tropical fruits. I LOATHE shopping mall shopping, but this fair is great fun for both the people watching, and for the eclectic range of items on sale.

[FWIW-After writing this I noticed that Lonely Planet has a brief mention of this craft fair, but it sounds uninteresting in the book.]