2004 Moscow Reports [Archive] - InternationalSexGuide

Snowy

01-09-04, 01:12

Good man, the knight!

I've been meaning to initiate the Kiev/Moscow discussion for a couple of weeks.

I've only been to Kiev the once and to Moscow a couple of times, so this is somewhat of a novicey answer, but I personally much preferred Kiev. The women are indeed beautiful (maybe not models on every corner, but there are stacks of stunning women), but for me it's just that Kiev is more of an on-the-rise city than Moscow, which in many ways is a city that's well and truly arrived. Kiev seemed more unaffected, the people friendlier, being a tourist there who spoke a bit of a Russian and English seemed to be more of novelty and the whole city generally felt a little newer and undiscovered. I still felt it had the feel of a "hidden gem" - I know that's not entirely true, but it definitely isn't a place which has reached saturation. It seemed to have the same feel that Prague had a few years back.

I had to go to Moscow on business on both trips and really couldn't wait - I couldn't believe I was being paid to go!, but on both times the city didn't quite grab me - I thought I was going to love it, but it seems to have become westernised in terms of the attitudes of many people living there and the money available so quickly that it just struck me as just another big city. I live in London and spend around 3 months a year in NY too, and whilst I love the big city atmosphere, I just didn't get a particularly unique vibe to the place. Admittedly I hated the work there and had limited alone time, so this may have tainted my opinion.

My opinion is probably that Kiev is possibly for the more adventerous and I reckon the next 12 months is really the best time to go; it seems to be an absolute gold mine if you can speak a bit of Russian too. Based on all the wonderful reports on this board though, Moscow does sound truely out of hand. I'll admit I've booked to go on holiday to Moscow nearly purely based on the enthusiasm for the city from several posters here. Stellar work everyone! It obviously sounds like a really sound place to go, maybe particularly for the novice traveller to EE.

CA Traveler

01-09-04, 04:09

Well boys and, err, boys... I want you to know that I arrived last night with only one bag lost so I headed out to eat with plans to hit the CF tochka immediately for an early evening. However, with it being a Thursday and all, I had to hit CF just to see if doc's Red was there. Unfortunately, I think she's staying at home lusting after the doc...

So, hit the lineup and picked a very cute, pert and very loving 20 y.o. Russki. $100. But, that's another story when I can post pictures! She's definitely "spinner" material as the pics will show. Turns out she loves threesomes and offered to bring her 21 y.o., tall beautiful girlfriend for the next visit... film at 11!

These situations are always VERY cost-effective, since they only expect 50% of the going tocka price or 2 for $100. Not a bad deal!

RE: Kiev/Ukraine vs. Moscow. I have yet to visit the Ukraine, even though I currently have a valid visa, but I will say that the vast majority of girls that I take from a lineup are from the Ukraine! Read into that what you will.

rm... thanks for the challenge, however, you've got to keep in mind that I was drinking legally and flying Navy jets before doc was even a wet spot in his daddy's pants! :) So, I will defer to the younger generation and will simply lust after some of doc's freebies!

Glad to hear that you'll be able to make it while doc and I are both here this week! See you then.

CA Traveler

01-09-04, 04:55

But, since we're on the subject... Here's my girl from last night! Many more pics of her, but I'll only give a glimpse at this point because there's a story here someplace but I'll wait until later.

CA Traveler

01-09-04, 04:59

OK, one more, but then I've got to get some sleep...

Roger Mellie

01-09-04, 06:48

BBAJ - Stories of Moscow being dangerous are usually exaggerated for effect. Exile does the same. You will be lucky to even meet a russian in Night Flight.

CAT - Nice pics. Looks like a nice girl. I like the sound of your threesome plans. When were you planning to line that one up?

Roger Mellie

01-09-04, 07:08

Bukudala (30 Dec) : I definately recommend seeing a few Tochkas. Get a driver to show you a minimum of 3 of them.

Tochka girls generally do more, but I kinda rely on working it all out with the girl back at your apartment. Alcohol helps there. I have never heard of anyone successfully negotiating with the mama as to what the girl will and wont do. But CAT is the king of the tochkas. He may be able to shed more light on that.

Its traditional if the tochka girl was nice to give her a small tip at the end. A hundred rubles or more as a "taxi fee" to get home. But the girls themselves will be very responsive if once you get them home you offer them an extra 10 or 20 bucks to do one thing or another extra.

As for the itinerary, a good mongering schedule was worked out taking into account what bars are best on what nights a few months back. I think Doc had worked it out. Seek and ye shall find.

And dollars vs ATM. I rely mainly on ATM, but always carry a few dollars / euros as a backup.

Visas you will not get from your local travel agent, and the embassy is no likely to be helpful either for that matter. You have to go through a specific russian visa agent who will issue you with an invitation to russia for a fee (usually $50 - 60) and once you have that then you can apply to the embassy. Do a google search for "russian tourist visa". From there I tend to se the post. Applying in foot at an embassy typically results in queueing for several hours to submit the application and the same process a few days later to pick it up. Thats a waste of 2 full days.

Doctor_Skank

01-09-04, 10:56

Visas:

RM is right, using an agency is easiest unless you've got business connections or friends in Russia to help you out. A great site for visa assistance and info is:

www.waytorussia.net

Ca_T and MM:

Great pictures guys. Really like MM's chick...I like thin girls.

Vegamars:

You've convinced me that Kiev is not Moscow...but I knew that already! :) And yeah, beauty of the experience with a woman goes way beyond mere sex or a couple of pictures, I think most guys who post here understand that, we are all obsessed with women and like Ca_T, RogerMellie and a number of other guys, I ADORE women...whether Russian, Ukrainian, Brazilian, German, Moroccan..whatever... and whether my time is with a p4p pro, a naive amateur, a 27-year old divorcee looking for some fun or some lovestruck girl I dragged home from the bar I will try to get the best possible experience out of it for me AND for her. I try to avoid paying $100, $150 or whatever to merely get my rocks off. I want to have an experience that is memorable. This is of course the ideal and doesn't always occur, but these kind of great experiences are what keep me coming back for more. So I think we are speaking the same language, and trying to offer a comparison of whether or not Kiev or Moscow is better or worse is certainly interesting when considering planning a trip to one or the other destination, but in the end the experience had will depend a lot on circumstance and the individual involved's mood, attitude, skill etc.

CA Traveler

01-09-04, 11:53

rm/bud... I started out negotiating beforehand at the bar. Now, I never negotiate before. Especially with a tochka mama... at a tochka I go home with the attitude that everything is possible AND EXPECTED! Anal is probably the exception to the rule but that's not on my list of high priorities anyway.

My Alias

01-09-04, 12:35

I just wanted to let you know I appreciate how many photos you post on your board. It's great. Most of the boards have few or no photos at all, and this gives us a chance to visually sample the merchandise, so to speak. Anyway, keep up the good work and one day I'll be able to participate in the Moscow scene.

Bez Bezarra

01-09-04, 13:40

What about multiple entry/business visas? All I need is an invitation from a legitimate businessman, who I don't know yet, and then I have to list where I'll be staying, what I'll be doing while I'm there, bla bla bla. Right?

What about the part about listing every country that you've been to for the last 5 years? Can't they just figure that out looking at your passport?

Bez Bezarra

01-09-04, 14:08

One thing I can say, which we we're discussing a few months ago, is the difference between Kiev now and Kiev in 2000, and how much that city alone has changed in just 3 or 4 years.

Another topic that I'm very interested in, is the difference between the p4p scene in Moscow and the regional cities, everywhere from Irkutsk to Murmansk, and in between.

Roger Mellie

01-09-04, 16:07

VISAS: http://www.infinity.ru/ do tourist invitations same day for $40.

And they are selling rooms at the Katerina Hotel for $110 a night.

Does anyone have experience staying at the Katerina? At that price I am tempted to try them out. A gym, sauna and jacuzzi are things you dont get for that price in an apartment.

The key question is: Are they girl friendly? It is swedish run, you you would think so.

Pavlohh

01-09-04, 21:55

Can anyone tell me where exactly the CF Tochka is.

Thanks

Stravinsky

01-10-04, 01:35

CA Traveller,

Your Jan Tochka dyev is exceptionally nice, even by Russian standards. Is it possible you just picked her out of a lineup? Will we see more of her?

Cpacebo ogromno,

Stravinsky

Mohctep

01-10-04, 18:21

If you need all kinds of visas to Russia and other countrys of former USSR. Locate Russian Travel Agency in your city. They would usually advertise in yellow pages.
Or even better do search in Yahoo/Google.
They will make any type of visas for you with no headache, for very little extra like 30-50 bucks.
If you US citizen you dont need visa to Ukraine. You just have enter and exit through the same port. And you can stay for around 10 days.
As for babes. I always thought that Ukranian women are more beautifull and hot then Russian. Especially if you into latin type of women as they remind me a lot of Latin chicks:dark hair,dark eyes tanned skin,etc. Climate should be milder as well.

Jes007

01-10-04, 21:26

Hi guys!

I'm not the most experianced guy about the visa or hotel. But I used www.visatorussia.com for the visa invitation. The guy Serjei is very friendly and he charge 30USD for next day service and 45USD for same day service. Never had any problem. Actually recommended by Kiril from www.kirnat.ru (appartments).

Roger Mellie:

I found this website offering following hotels cheaper. The website is

http://www.alphaomega-travel.com/hotels_offers.phtml

Marriot Tverskaya for 120USD incl tax (no breakfast)
Aerostar for 120USD incl tax and breakfast.

This sounds like a very good deal for me.

They do have offices im Moscow and UK. Moscow phone number is
095 960 3119 or 095 244 7016.

I never tried this agency but they advertise at www.kirnat.ru

I never stayed at Aerostar but Marrriots are extremely girl freindly.

Enjoy your trip and give me feedbak about the agency and hotel if you use it!

Fenster

01-11-04, 02:13

Mangus Man,

You're wrong on all counts in terms of business visas requirements. In fact, acquiring a business visa has nothing to do with any business you might have or not have in Russia/CIS, it has to do with length of stay and number of entries into the country. Most people choose business visas to Russia because they can stay longer and not book accommodations in advance, unlike tourist visas.

Ultimately, The Russian authorities could give a rat's ass whether you've legitimate business in Russia or not, they just want the visa fees. So direct your browser to waytorussia.com or similar service site, pay them $90 for a 90 days double entry visa and they'll take care of the rest. You could name your company "Love to AssFuck in Russia" if you like, and you'll get that invitation in above company's name cause, again, no one gives a shit what business you aim to do while in the CIS.

As for the addendum for American men under 45, this is a retaliatory measure to similar US procedures, no one reads it and no one gives a fuck what your write in it, just make sure you don't lie about countries that have stamped your passport in the last few years, that's all. So stop worrying, finish with the red tape shit, get there and report back with them fine pictures.

CA Traveler

01-11-04, 06:22

monster... is this rule for the Ukraine new? It used to be that a business visa doesn't require invitation letter but a tourist visa required something as an invitation. But, you still needed a visa. I have a current tourist double entry visa, but it required an invite.

Roger Mellie

01-11-04, 09:51

Pavlohh

A few hundred yards north of Kurskaya metro is a tiny side street (off the Garden Ring) called Sadovii Tup. Its in that street.

Roger Mellie

01-11-04, 09:55

Try this map link

http://map.afisha.ru/scripts/ymap.dll/dmap.html?name=1073810919843&w=400&h=300&map=Msk_afisha

And just use the red and white bar down the bottom to zoom in

CA Traveler

01-12-04, 07:30

TO: the Moscow crowd and wantabees... There is a group of friends and fellow mongers, primarily from the UK and the USA, getting together in Moscow the week of March 5th through the 14th, or whenever.(some are only staying 3 days, others up to the entire time.) I'm attempting to get a group discount for the crowd, so if anyone out there is interested in joining us, please PM me as soon as possible and I'll send you all of the details.

MichaelGage

01-13-04, 18:27

Long time no post. Sounds like everyone has been having fun. Fortunately, I've some free time to spend in Moscow from January 20 until early Feb. Anyone want to hook up?

Scanman2

01-15-04, 12:44

I hadn't been to CF for a few months but went back last Friday and 2 incidents occurred which I wanted to know if anyone had heard or experienced.

I picked up a decent looking ***** - we negotiated $100 for the night and left. We got a taxi outside and as we drove away, the militsia came from nowhere and followed us. They stopped us a bit further along. After checking my documents, which were fine, they checked the *****'s documents - even though she had registration - they told her to get out of the car, which she did, and they were all standing outside. After 5 minutes, one of the militsia knocked at the window and said they wanted to "chat" to me. I asked him again if there was a problem with my documents - he said no, so I told him to fuck off and then told the taxi to drive. So I left the ***** and the militsia behind and saved myself $100 + bribes. Someone told me this is becoming quite common - militsia waiting outside CF. Anyone heard of this ? I hate paying militsia any money.

On the same evening, a friend of mine who works at the European Medical Centre said he treated a guy who was drugged by a ***** who he picked up at CF. At his apartment she fixed some drinks and then spiked his - they traced the substance and it is readily available at any pharmacy as it is for treatment of high blood pressure. The drug basically lowers your heart rate so you become lethargic and sleepy. He woke up in the morning needless to say minus wallet, passport, watch, cellphone. So be careful out there. Never let the *****s make the drinks and always keep your drink in site. Also its best to lock your apartment door and hide the key - so even if she wants to leave she will have to get you up first. Normally anyway before I let the ***** leave, I check my wallet to see if any money is missing, passport, cellphone etc. If all looks fine then I unlock the door and let her go.

Larmes

01-15-04, 20:03

Hi,

I will be visiting Moscow for the first time in 15 years in 10 days. I guess things must have changed quite a bit since my last visit ! I will be staying at the Metropol (not my choice) for only a couple of nights and am not quite sure what I will be able to do from there. So here are my questions:

1) Is the Metropol girl friendly ?
2) can online escort agencies such as http://www.moscowescort4u.com be trusted ?

Thanks

CA Traveler

01-16-04, 01:37

sm... this info has been posted many times, but it is always good to refresh the info. I've made the journey from the CF area to my apartment near Metro Belarusski probably twenty times in the past two months with girls with no problems. However, last night I picked a girl from a tochka and headed back to the apt. No prob, until I got back to my place and the girl refused BBBJ and kissing, so we packed up and headed back to the tochka. Picked the girl from last month with the unbelievable vagina and headed home. Unfortunately, the driver took a route through the residential area before heading to my place and sure enough the militia pulled us over. As sm indicated they wanted money and I only had $20 bucks which worked to my advantage. That is one of the down sides of a tochka vs. CF/club girls in that you pay for the tochka girl up front and you don't the club girls. So, it is much easier to let the club girl go. So, what began as a $100 evening became a $180 night. Likewise the girl would not do a bbbj, but did kiss a little. Wound up going to sleep at 0600. If I had it to do over again I would have let her go and lost my $100.

Apparently, the new tochka rules require covered bj and no kissing unless the girl relents.

I would not make this assumption, but I've been with both girls within the past 6 weeks with great results which I've reported on. So it wasn't a case of a shy girl, but rather a case of a change in rules from the boss. This was really apparent with the first girl which I had less than one week ago and she was the same girl that pulled my fingers from her vagina and shoved them into her ass, yet this time would not kiss or perform a bbbj. So, it looks like the days of bbbj at the CF tochka are over for a while.

Jimbehr2000

01-16-04, 06:30

Scanman2: I am told miltia watches CF very closely. From their point of view its an ideal place to make some bribe money. Lots of foreign men with money in a somewhat compromising position. Perfect to extract bribes. They got me for a few hundred rubles about six months ago. The scam work as you described it. The took the girl to their car for a while then came back to me to inform me of a problem with the girl's documents. The problem could be fixed by paying a fine on the spot.

I've never rented an apartment anywhere but I wonder if any have safes. No matter where I travel I try to find a room with a safe. I always wonder how girls steal money out of your wallet if you pay for their services after the session. If you pay after, they know you're going to check your wallet when taking money from your wallet for the girl. Its just another reason to pay after services are provided whenever possible.

Roger Mellie

01-16-04, 07:48

No BBBJ??? Oh my! This is a very unfortunate development. We need to find a new favourite Tochka

CA Traveler

01-16-04, 09:36

jb2K... good point. In fact, I always hide my money/passport/watch while they are in the shower. I've never lost anything from a tochka or even a club girl with one minor exception along the way.

I have a friend in Spb that actually lost a camera to a TG and went back to the T and the head enforcer went with him to her apartment and came back down with the camera for him. I really think that the Tochkas try to keep their customers safe and happy because they don't need the bad press. Of course, you can't say that about a club girl, but you have less at risk if you pay them after the service.

MichaelGage

01-16-04, 12:20

One thing to remember -- and I learned this from a girl at Night Flight, is that some of the girls are paying off "debts" to the police, and they actually telephone the cops to let them know they have a good "customer." This girl described in detail things that had happened to me, and I had not considered what was going on...

I picked up a girl at a club once who went to the bathroom before we left, and we were picked up not a minute after leaving. You pay the bribe and go on, or you leave the girl and loose your investment.

From one touchka near the bus station we were picked up,and I am convinced the mamachka called in the license plate numbers to the cops -- a way to pay for their "cover" -- as we were picked out of a pretty steady flow of traffic. Those guys knew what car to look for.

As for girls in the room -- always follow the advice listed below, and lock the door, hide the key. Check your important stuff before she goes out. If you have to -- get pissed and make her show you her purse. They are just trying to survive.

Also, earlier seems to be better... later pick ups are more prone to busts by the cops.

MG

PS. I'm traveling and don't have my laptop, so if my friends wonder why I'm not emailing, its because I don't have any address book with emails. Can you write me?

Bez Bezarra

01-16-04, 13:47

Passing out in total exhaution after an hour of screwing a dyev's brains out? Hey that's normal, so of course you can't relax if you're worried about her finding your stash of cash and helping herself to more than your generous sponsorship that you've offered her for little treasures!

In a travel of a section of a discount store I found a little $10 device, about the size of a small remote control. It runs on one 9V battery, and you put your cash stash, or anything else, under this little "First Watch" device, then set the motion alarm, and simply place it on top of your money. Then you can cover it all up with clothes or anything.

If your dyev gets her hands in where they don't belong, this thing will let out such a scream, she'll have a fucking heart attack, and it will wake you right up so you can stick it back in her. Anything she moves in your suitcase that is anywhere close to the alarm will set if off, I really doubt that even most pros would be able to pull some James Bond shit and find the switch to turn it off, before accidently moving SOMETHING and setting it off.

Of course there are some that you can trust, but this way, you can sleep too. Getting slipped a mickey? Oh, that's so fucked up!

Jes007

01-16-04, 14:03

I have to agree with Michaelgage. I have visited line-ups twice. First time at Leninsky prospect, second time Tverskaya. We were stopped by the militia both times. I have to admit that it was too late the first time. I was at the line-up around 3AM. We saw couple of militia cars around but never thought this was a problem. We picked up a girl and the driver told the girl to lie down in the back seat so the militia not saw her. Few minutes later two cars followed us and stopped us. Unfortunately I forgot the passport in my coat and this error cost me 50USD. They told the girl to sit in their car and the thing I noticed is that the girl was laughing and chatting with the militia in the car. The whole thing seemed to be arranged for me.

The second time we picked up the girl and the militia stopped us in Tverskaya street. I think this is only possible if they have the licence number of the car. It was around 10.30 and crowded. This episode cost me 500 rubles. It seems like both mobs and militia cooperate so both can earn some extra rubles.

I have heard the stories later that one of my friends was stopped by militia and he didn’t want to pay. So militia took the girl. This guy went back to the line-up and found the girls there. You don’t need more evidence to prove that they cooperate.

I have been to CF and NF numerous times, last time in aug.03, but never stooped by militia. I never pay in advance and usually take the phone number of the girls from NF & CF. If any thing happens with militia they can come to my hotel/apartment later.

About the stories about drugging and stealing, I heard from the guy I rented apartment that I have to be careful cause it happened in their apartment twice. I usually stay at Marriot and don’t have to worry about that. But when I stayed in the apartment I hide passport, money and the creditcards. I never a allow any one to mix my drinks.

Take care and enjoy guys!

CA Traveler

01-17-04, 07:06

jes007/mg/et.al.... Lest everyone think that jes007's experience is normal. I've probably been to the lineups 100 times in the past 18 months and I've been stopped about 5 or 6 times. I lost the girl and my $100 one time and that was primarily because I choose to walk a long distance with the girl and at the time I suspected that the militia took the girl back to the tochka.

It is true that you definitely become more of a target the later it is, but that in itself is not the defining factor in the militia stops.

At the same time, I've been stopped more times with club girls than I have with tochka girls maybe because they focus around CF either on foot near the street underpass or on the Garden Ring in autos.

Cicciolino

01-17-04, 13:04

Larmes,

The Metropol Hotel is NOT girlfriendly at all. At least you have to tip the security there to take up a gril to your room. I can recommend you the Baldschug Kempinski, in my opinion the best hotel in Moscow.

Ogman

01-17-04, 19:33

I had the chance to visit Moscow in sunny December for a few days. I tried to use my limited language skills to call a couple escorts but learned quickly I was not up to the challenge (they don’t teach you those words I guess in school). After several failed attempts to hook up with a couple ladies living in apartment off Ul. Sadovaya (near the Mayakovskaya Metro - Actually seemed like there were several incall girls there). I ended up missing out on them since I could not figure out the payphones. You had to get a calling card (only sold by the Metro) to use the phones and then once the person you were calling picked up the phone, there was a button on the handset you pressed to initiate the call. Otherwise they could not hear you.

I also tried to get a spa to send a car to take me to their location but again no English and they would not quote any prices over the phone so I chickened out.

Thankfully, the Tverskaya Metro underpass tochka (near Pushkinskaya Metro) was hopping. My first experience proved a horrible failure and showed that even with experienced punters, a fast-talking babe can take your money. There were several obvious SWs in the underpass and at both exits. I looked around and talked to a couple in broken Russian. Then this incredibly beautiful woman with tight pants and a stretched angora sweater approached me and started to speak German. I told her with my minimal german that I could not speak and she immediately slipped into almost perfect English. She said lets walk and talk towards my hotel. Immediate hardon time! She waxed on about getting her degree in economics and how she only did this once a month just to make ends meet. She then says the most beautiful words, $100 US for the entire night. I then asked her about anal and she said that was her personal favorite but was shy to mention it. My zipper popped then. As we are about a block from my hotel, she turns to me and says her pimp was standing behind the xotdog stand next to us and he would need the money before he let her go into the hotel. While I know full well never to show any real money before getting into the room, my pecker practically handed me my wallet. She actually gave me a little kiss and said to wait there for 1 minute. She went around the stand and the rest is history . . . .

Dejected but throbbing, I went back to the Tverskaya Tochka and picked up another dark eyed beauty from Minsk. Tatiana - darker eyes, long beautiful hair, glasses and the biggest real boobs I had ever seen on a slimmer girl. Actually, I engaged a older woman to help me find what I was looking for and she had brought me a couple of 3-5s before this one (a 6-7) so I negotiated the price from $150 to $80 rather quickly. I explained my money was back in the room and we headed there quickly. A great experience all in all, very GFE and she even enjoyed trying to give me grammar lessons between sessions. She actually got me off 3 times (longtime rim, Russian, and 2 BBJ all the way, no anal) before I said it was time for her to leave. Never asked for a tip and the only bad side is she was a chain smoker (even needed a couple puffs during the otherwise great long BJ.

The next night I went back and was aiming for another girl but Tatiana spotted me a latched on big time. I spoke to her manager again and got her to go $50 for the entire night since I was a reliable return customer. Tatiana was again great but right after the first longtime rim and bbbj, she went to light her cigarette and her lighter did not work. She proceeded to rapidly go into withdrawals about needing a cigarette and I lost interest and sent her on her way. So a $100 screw-up followed by two wonderful nights for a $120 total with tips. Moscow is a punter’s dream!

CA Traveler

01-18-04, 11:10

ogman... nice report! However, I think you glossed over the most important item in your story without much fanfare...

Here, everyone learns from everyone else's mistakes and I have not heard this scam before... You paid the money to the SW on the street and she disappeared? This is a great lesson of the little head thinking for the big head and a great example of one being born every minute.

As you read through these postings about Moscow, I think the one consistant thing about them is that there is NO mention of street walkers because the lineups are there in place of SW. The girls around the Tverskaya/Pushkinskaya underpass are the rare exception and now we discover that they are probable just working a scam... nice to know!

One question though... I thought I knew most of the lineups in and around the center. I am not aware of the Tverskaya/Puskinskaya lineup you mentioned. Where is it exactly?

Sorry you had to jump the grenade for the crew, but we appreciate the info... both good and bad!

Jes007

01-18-04, 19:51

CAT!

I wrote about this line-up some time ago. This line up is in some alley around Tvetskaya Yamskaya St. Usually there is a girl at the opposite side of the Marriot Grand with some handsfree device connected to her ears. The exact location may vary. If you start walking from Puskinskaya sq towards Metro Belaruskaya you will find the girl from 8-9 PM. I also noticed that an Audi parked not so far from the girl.

As far as I know this is the most expensive line-up. In august the prices was 100, 150 or 200USD. May be I got ripped off. Take a look at the photo gallery to see the 150USD line up girl.

Doctor_Skank

01-18-04, 20:57

BBBJ vs. CBJ policy from tochka girls:

Ca_T's report on this trend corresponds with my experience, although I have been able to convince the girls to give me a BBBJ nonetheless. My experience is both with the CF tochkas and the Marriott Grand one. I can't remember being refused kissing with a tochka girl, at least in recent memory. In any case the vast majority will and most seem to enjoy it tremendously.

If CBJ and nonkissing become the rule rather than the exception, I'll quit going to tochkas....there would be no point for me anymore.

Militia shakedown:

My bad experience were all when walking at night, never in a car. Knock on wood. Guess I've been lucky.

Ogman:

Am not at all familiar with an underpass tochka at the Pushkinskaya/Tverskaya metro underpass and walk through there all the time. There are always girls standing around looking sexy, but I always assumed these to be normal dyevs. As for the scam, don't feel too bad, I probably would have fallen for it too. I am a bit naive when it comes to such things. And working girls often have to give the pimp the money first, CF and NF being exceptions.

Girls who speak English fluently:

Are usually very experienced and cold... I'd be wary of them in general. I mean, if they are really so educated and intelligent, what are they doing in the mongering biz? Am pretty sure she learned her great English and German in the FKKs of Germany and working tricks in Russia... before figuring out she can get a $100 without opening her pants by running a scam.

Pushkin underpass area II:

Come to think of it, walking my new GF home a couple of days ago we passed the militia shaking down two girls and two guys near that area and my GF told me "prostitutki, bad girls"... I wouldn't have guessed...they looked like average Pyramide clientle. I asked how she could tell and she said "everybody knows." as if I had asked a ridiculously stupid question. She then asked "Do you sleep with prostitutes?" I replied shocked "...are you kidding?" :)

CA Traveler

01-19-04, 05:34

doc... who has time to sleep???? :)

Doctor_Skank

01-19-04, 12:17

Viagra in Moscow:

Being the responsible person that I am, I did some research and bought some Viagra in Moscow. After several sex-filled days I wanted to have a safety net in case I would have to perform again at 3 or 4am with my body already pretty brutalized by these insatiable women. Ca_T is right as always...with prostitutes you don't get and sleep and the normal girls are even worse....or better? :)

In any case I found Viagra to be quite expensive, paying 540 rubles for a 50mg tablet at the 3.6.6 pharmacy across from McDonalds on Tverskaya near Red Square. 540 rubles is almost $20.

I actually thought I was getting a few tablets for this price, but when I got home it was a single 50mg tablet and I felt really ripped off.

Swiss Tiger

01-19-04, 12:34

Dr Skank

I think the best line in English I have heard from Ukranian and Russian Girls is : (imagine the Accent)

"I vant too kees heem, vizout condom, oh pleese leet mee kees heem!"

... if they beg me like that what can I do but let them! :-)

Regarding your GF asking "do you sleep with P..." , I had to laugh,
I have had similar questions posed my way,and my reaction was exactly the same! "Jeez, what do you think I am, a sado who can't get a GF?" (I had fingers crossed when I answered that though!)
The thing about GF's is one can't just "use" them the same way!

Good reports on here mongering dudes!

Larmes

01-19-04, 16:11

Thank you Cicciolino. Unfortunately, the Metropol is "imposed" on me for several reasons. Guess I will have to go for incall then.

Larmes

Ricardo Cabro

01-19-04, 17:15

Cicciolino / Larmes

I stayed in the Metropol in December (same time as when the suicide bomber blew her head off across the square outside the National). The Metropol is VERY girl friendly as long as she has ID. I took two girls back - one from CF and one a GF. Both had their ID checked at the front door and were asked to sign in at reception. No bribe was asked for or given and, even better, no extra charge was added to my room for my "guests". Girls in the Metropol bar are mediocre in looks (4-6) and expensive at $200 per hour.

Doctor_Skank

01-19-04, 18:48

swiss tiger,

very true, you lucky guy! i trust she treated heem very vell.

i'll follow with a pic and a proper report soon, but my most recent tochka girl wouldn't even let me sleep last time. having fucked her in a multi-position lengthy session already, i really wanted to crash mumbling "ya hachu spat..." (i want sleep) but it was only about 2 am and her day was just beginning, so she proceeded to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) me and i was literally trying to fight her off but she kept kissing me everywhere until i finally submitted and fucked her again. having done that, i thought i had done my duty...but about 45 minutes later she woke me again for round three. i had remembered the "ubai menya" (kill me) from last time and repeated this to her. she laughed and continued to molest my helpless body. i'll give her credit though, she resurrected the dead with unparalleled skill. and who said russians don't know anything about service?

jes007,

i think you are refering to the marriott grand tochka that has been reported on several times, but ogman seems to be reporting on girls working the underground passageway directly under pushkin square where all the little shops are and where the bomb went off a couple years back...any pro action there would be new to me.

Roger Mellie

01-19-04, 23:32

DrSkank
The old regular freebie girls mocking prostitues seems to be a new development. It never seemed to be an issue but now the non-p4p girls (or should that read EX-p4p girls) now frown upon their cash earning cousins. IN the last 2 months, 2 of my regular freebies have asked me that very same question: "Khev yoo ever yoozed a prastitoot?"

I just give 'em a puzzled look and shake my head as if bemused.

Fenster

01-19-04, 23:59

Doc,

You may find this inquiry a bit silly, but who to ask other than the one and only Doc: now for those of us who find it difficult to get real and deep delta sleep with a stranger in the house, will it be hard to get rid of a tochka or CF babe after the deed is done? I â€˜m figuring that past midnight and maybe in the middle of a snow storm the dievush would be reluctant to leave the warmth of better accommodations than she's used to. Any suggestions on how to persuade the no longer desired package to scram?

Bez Bezarra

01-20-04, 01:45

RM

Maybe they, in their fucked up English, were actually trying to ask, "Doze yere deek hov ooze, after deerty nasty ***** in street?"

No? Well, I just thought... nevermind. Forget it, must be a Miami thing.

Mangus

Bukudala

01-20-04, 15:17

Great reporting everyone.

Anyone care to add comments favorable/unfavorable about girls on omen.ru or playcity.ru? Pricing seems to be anywhere from $50/hr-$100/hr and 150-300 for the night. What's the false advertising scale?

I figure some of the ladies are indy and some are "houses."

English seems to be negligible to none though I managed to find one who spoke English quite well. In fact, I've decided to see her and her friend on my upcoming trip to Mother Russia. For anyone interested, she's on playcity.ru/3640200. Anyone get to her before I do would love to see a report.

The militia stuff's kinda alarming. If one were to succumb to paying a bribe....what's the going rate? Taking along the passport makes sense; what about other documents like the visa?

It was reported several threads ago that Tochka girls were very liberal, but now that's changing (cbj vs bbbj, kissing etc). Is this policy restricted to certain Toshkas? Or are there specific Toschkas that have reputations for girls where the YMMV is...well....up to you?

Finally, if one were to shop the Toshkas early (9-11pm or earlier -- anyone try an afternoon tour), what's the selection like and will there be less of a chance of being stopped by the militia?

Thx and happy hunting! Buku$

Super G

01-20-04, 22:42

Hello Everyone,

I have been reading your posts and learning quite a bit. Thank you. I'm planning a trip to Russia for early 2005 and I am wondering if anyone might have a suggestion. Where might I find a girl willing to stay with me for several days, playing tour guide and translator during the day, and more erotic activities at night? Has anyone met someone in there travels that might fit this bill? The escort sites charge by the hour or night, but not for 2 to 3 days and nights. I suspect that there are many girls willing to make a private deal for much less and not have to share with the house.

Thanks again.

Super G

Doctor_Skank

01-21-04, 02:14

Fenster,

You can ALWAYS kick the girl out if you want, you are the boss of the situation, not her.

CF and NF girls will usually want to leave on their own accord after about 3 hours, but some will stay til morning.

Tochka girls will almost always prefer to stay til morning, as you mentioned especially in winter.

If a girl really refuses to leave, give her 200 rubles for a taxi and boot her ass out. In a hotel obviously no problem, in an apartment she my try to make a scene and you'd have to assert yourself. Threaten to call the militia. She'll give in.

I used to always prefer sleepovers but am adjusting my policy, since I usually have to work the next day and booting them makes sense. I have no trouble sleeping next to strange girls (too much practice I guess) but many girls WILL keep you up all night wanting sex or them just not being able to sleep as they are on a different schedule. Once they are asleep though, getting them to wake up is like waking the dead. Dyevs cherish their beauty sleep.

Jimbehr2000

01-21-04, 07:10

I saw pros at the Pushinskaya underpass every night of my stay in Moscow. They seemed pretty hard and surrounded by some unsavory looking men and I was turned off by the scene there. I am also guessing ogman is referring to SWs there instead of an actual tochka being there.

ogman thanks for sharing. I fell for that scam back in the late 60s during one of my very first mongering experiences. In New York City of all places.

Doctor_Skank

01-21-04, 09:44

JB2000: out of curiousity I'll check out the SWs around Pushkinsky Metro underpass without actually using one, but anybody who would take a true SW in Moscow is taking more risks than necessary IMHO. AS Ca_T rightfully stated before, the tochkas replace the SW scene and are remarkably safe, with the further advantage of reducing the SW scene to a few collection points and keeping true SW more or less off the streets.

Doctor_Skank

01-21-04, 11:23

MM:

Great pics by the way, that chick's ass rules.

Buka:

Would be interesting to hear Ca_T's take on this, his experience is more vast than mine. Nonetheless, here is my view.

Militia bribes:
If something is wrong with your papers such as a missing visa registration, 300-500 RUR will do it. Often there will be some discussion and you'll have to give the oldest militia man present the bribe when the younger militia policemen aren't looking. They don't like to openly accept bribes. However if your papers are in order they'll let you go without paying or problem in most cases. To avoid having to pay such bribes, you should always have with you:

passport incl. visa (I carry my original, some guys carry only a copy)
visa registration (make photocopies of this in case it gets lost)
your immigration card you get when entering the country (you'll only have the departure card showing when you entered and plan to leave)

Bribing to keep your girl is trickier and you may just have to let her go and cut your losses. Formerly 300-500 RUR would cover this as well, but other guys are now reporting that $100 is the going rate, which isn't worth it. Just a thought, it may pay to take a "real" taxi to avoid being stopped...anybody have experience taking a "real" taxi to a tochka? I think I've always been in gypsy taxis.

Change of BBBJ policy:
I've had girls from different tochkas ask for CBJ but never been refused kissing in recent memory. BBBJ was provided after I insisted. Nonetheless, it does appear that word from above has started demanding this change of policy. In a completely wacky contradiction though, I've had girls at first insist on CBJ, then succumb to my demands for BBBj and then get all emotional later and start asking me to fuck them uncovered, which I won't.

Time to go to tochka:

The earlier the better. Better selection, less militia hassle before midnight. After 8pm all girls should be working.

Dick Travel

01-21-04, 16:07

Hi all.

Heck it's four months since I was in Moscow and as I regularly read the posts here, I'm a bit green eyed of you guys who seem to be there more than at home !

Nevertheless Ca_T, Doc and all, sterling work and reports as normal, thankyou !

Doc -

I took a "real" taxi on my very first tochka visit on the first night I was in Moscow. (I hadnt figured out gypsy taxis at the time !)
Well, about 2 mins after leaving with girl we were stopped. The Tochka was just off Lubianka, small affair with girls in a minivan on side of main road- not the best of choices but i found a superb girl. Anyway i digress...
The driver didnt seem at all surprised, the girl was chatting with one of the militia (after initial worried looks in car she was chatting quite happily and smiling) while i talked to the other one. My papers were in order but "apparently" hers were not. Some rubles changed hands and off we went. I got the impression stopping cars from that lineup was organised.
Of course it may be the militia just spotted us pulling away from the lineup and followed a few blocks - after all it was on a main road.
So, "real taxi" does not guarantee a militia free journey but if its a back street lineup then I'd think once you have driven a couple of streets you are probably a lot less likely to be stoppped by militia chancing their luck.

What we need to do guys is club together and buy ourselves our own militia car- we wont get stopped then.

DT

Bez Bezarra

01-22-04, 01:22

Dick T

Can I ask how much you had to pay the militsia, what does it come out to in dollars? Do they start high and you talk them down?

Also, if you feel like sharing, about the superb girl, what set her apart, and what did she cost?

Just curious.

MM

Bez Bezarra

01-22-04, 04:57

Hey Doc.

I had one Kharkov girl who hadn't slept for a few days, she was just partying/ drinking very hard very long with her friends when my girlfriend found her and brought her to my flat and left her with me. She was nice, ooh! Very sweet and great GFE I was surprised as tired as she was, she still had enough energy for a good session, but after, that was it, she was out cold!

Had to throw water on her, drag her into the shower with clothes on, and push her down 3 flights of stairs.......well, it was more like I dropped her, you know, she was like stumbling around and I lost my grip on her. At the bottom she looked up and asked "Why you throw me down stairs? You no like me?" Oh God Nyet nyet, ya nravitsa, oochin mnoga!!

Another blown chance for a nice friendship, I'm such a dumb ass. I gave her my number, when she woke up and saw all her bruises, well no wonder she never called me. My bad!

EDITOR's NOTE: This report was reformatted to remove the unnecessary indents and word wraps.

CA Traveler

01-22-04, 21:27

buku$$... It's too early to tell if the no kissing/cbj is standard at all of the tochkas or not. Time will tell and it could just be a knee jerk reaction to a girl getting herpes or something. Sometimes one provider supplies girls for multiple tockas, we'll know more in the next few weeks after a few more reports. I return in Feb, so I'l report then.

Militia bribes... for the most part the militia are VERY professional and will salute and smile as they tell you "problem". I've always immediately asked to pay the fine... it's all a game and it is not something to worry about. Of course, that's easy for me to say and if you've never been stopped with one or two militia guys with AK-47s at port arms standing by while you speak with the "senior" guy. On my last trip, I was stopped by the militia in a regular taxi and I almost thought that it was planned before hand. Since I only had $20 they settled for it. I've been asked for as much as $100 and I passed and lost my tochka money. The general rule is... Tochka, pay upfront -- You're at risk and must weigh the cost/pussy quality ratio and make a decision. Club girls, pay later -- You have NO risk and then must decide how much you want her or if you'd rather start all over! Either way, it's your decision!

doc is correct... go early and you will have less chance of being stopped. The later the more chance that the militia will be on the prowl.

Regarding getting rid of the girl... I've only had one problem getting rid of her and finally just told her to leave. I prefer to sleep alone simply because I have difficulty sleeping with a strange girl. I think is is also a little more of a risk to have a deep sleep with a strange girl, but I've never heard of a problem.

sG.. I like someone that plans ahead! :) I used to plan and do many sessions for 4-7 days in exotic locations. It can be fun, but I've since changed and now prefer the variety and options available for P4P and reg girls. I think there are many websites that offer girls for extended periods. There are several in Spb and one or two in Moscow. The first criteria is the langauge compatibility. Passing that test, I'd suggest writing some of the girls listed in some of the websites with girls and ask for a 72+ hour quote. You should be able to find many girls for $200+ per day at the most. However, IMHO you will be missing some of the best features of Moscow if you spend all your time with one girl.

Dick Travel

01-23-04, 07:31

Mangus Man -

the bribe on that occasion was $20 plus 300rbls. It isnt always the same as you will note from Ca_T's last and other postings.

If you'd like to read more about the bribe stop experience etc see my postings around 19 sept 03.

DT

Fenster

01-23-04, 12:05

Guys,

I wonder whether these Militia shake downs of tochki punters are carried out against westerners and foreigners only. As far as any of you know, do Russians and their dievushks get shaken down too? I just can’t picture a Russian fella relinquishing his hard earned cto dolarov, so they must get off lightly.

I’m thinking if tochkis are predominantly patronized by Russians, the militia would expect to shake down Russians mostly, and if a lone, confused westerner comes their way, all the merrier and better purse I guess. Or is it a case of blatant collusion between mamassan, xozien and militia to take westerners who dare play the game to the cleaners? Ultimately, are the tochkis on the way to airport, like near the IKEA store less patrolled and probed than downtown’s?

Stravinsky

01-23-04, 20:10

Mangus Man,

The next time you throw your dyev down the stairs, instead of saying,"Oh God Nyet nyet, ya nravitsa, oochin mnoga!!", the correct form would be, "Bozhye moi, nyet, nyet, tui min-YAY nravitsa, ochyen mnoga!!"

Prosta ya xochy pomogat.

Stravinsky.

Swissman

01-24-04, 06:20

Hi all,

Sorry for keep silence so long time....

I'm back in Moscow in End of March, anyone there to hook up for a beer?

Take care guys
Swissman

MichaelGage

01-24-04, 10:36

Thursday night CF was sad... I've seen better girls on lineup, so about 1am I went out to look, and landed a new girl... 3 days in Moscow and so fresh. She repeated all the lines about no kissing and condoms, but after I told her how it was going to go down, she smiled and said okay. She was awesome, but although she didn't like the anal she never said "no" or resisted. So my take is that it is a "policy" they are trying to bring in force. I wouldn't make much of it, though.

I did learn alot from her about the how and whys of the lineups. Her "soutenir" is a 24 year old Ukrainian man. He has 3 apartments of girls that make up the entire tochka. He has her passport, and she will get it back when she pays of her "minimum" -- which she still owes 4,500 rubles. She has to work every night until that is paid off, and she earns only about $20 every trick until the minimum is paid. Then she literally gets a raise, and the right to say she doesn't want to work. She wants to go home as soon as she has paid that debt, as she didn't realize how bad it would be. Her worse trick was 4 men in a flat, but she has heard worse "horror" stories.

She has been beaten twice by her "soutenir" and the bruises were on her back. Each time it was for being late in the morning -- she says she is suppose to get back and report in by 10am. She has never visited the center of the city, and can't go with me until she has paid her minimum. She gave me her soutenirs phone number, and asked if I would buy her passport back and then she could belong to me. She said if I called him the price might be higher. She said I was much kinder than him. What an amazingly screwed up world.

I'll post her photo later. At an cafe at the moment.

MG

Doctor_Skank

01-24-04, 12:47

mg:

thanks for the tochka insight, i am still piecing together all the pieces of the p4p puzzle. i've had several tochka girls who did choose to stay in moscow and work on...their mobile numbers were also really their own and some of them are still there after more than a year. most disappear sooner or later, presumably they go home, or find a sponser, change their phone number or simply aren't interested in maintaining contact.

are you of the opinion that all tochka girls go through the ritual beatings/rapings (black saturday) at the beginning of their tour? i realize that the tochka girls have it rougher than their more glamourous sisters at nf, cf or elsewhere and occassionally i have seen mysterious bruises etc, but i have not gotten the impression that all girls went through this "training session". a lot of the girls are in perfect shape, bubbly and friendly and seemingly carefree...in no way do they seem to be traumatized. i realize that for the russian poor it is in their nature to suffer and still maintain a positive outlook on life, yet with most girls even my superficial questions yielded no clue of any "black saturday". i am certain it is reality for a lot of girls, but am curious if it is true for most or all of them. unfortunately my russian is still not adequate enough to probe the intricacies of the business. maybe i'm better off that way.... :)

any insight from you would be greatly appreciated.

as for cf, i was there about a week ago on a wednesday and found only a single girl that was up to my standard and she wanted $200. she was really cute, but obviously i am not going to pay $200 at cf. when i left at 2 am she was still customer-less and as the crowd thinned she was starting to look a little desperate. i'm sure a "discount" would have been possible, but i didn't feel like giving her anything... as always cf is hit and miss but is still on my regular "to do" list, if you get lucky there it can be a gold mine.

keep up the excellent work!

mm: i wouldn't have called you back either! :)

Dick Travel

01-24-04, 14:58

MG.

excellent report, thankyou.
By my calculations if the girl only earnt $20 a "trick", and I assume some of that is probably paid to the soutenir as rent/lodgings etc, then paying back the ~$160 would take some time.
You said she'd been there 3 days, did she suggest how long it might take?

Were you tempted to give her the money to pay the "minimum" and gain her freedom, in exchange for spending a few days with you?

I took a few tochka girls on my visit and none had bruising or scars that i noticed, but i dont doubt beatings happen. I wonder if anyone knows if there are great differences between the treatment girls get from the "managment" of different tochkas?
How many "organisations" are there running them etc?

Doc,
I think you may be right, for those of us with a conscience, it might be better not to know too much.

thanks again MG,

DT

CA Traveler

01-24-04, 18:34

IMHO, if I ran a stable of girls... the absolutely last thing I would do is beat them. It would be like selling tomatoes, but first you go out and play soccer (OK, football) or basketball with them first!

I've only seen one girl with significant bruises or burn scars, in this case and fortunately she wasn't my "girl". I have no doubt that there is some recruiter that helps the girls make it to Moscow and I'm sure that the money must be paid back in spades, but I also suspect that some of the pimps are more nasty than others and it is the luck of the draw for the girls as to which one hooks up with them.

I think there is so much about Russia and the sex business that we as Westerners will never know and as everyone has said, probably don't want to know!

sm... I'll be in Moscow until the 25th of March if you're around.

doc... photos on the way!

Bez Bezarra

01-25-04, 04:45

Stravinsky.

I didn't throw the dyev down the stairs! I wasn't holding her tight and she wiggled around a little and the next thing I knew, there she went! I didn't realize she was basically sleepwalking at that point. But it was only 6:00 in the evening, so she caught me off guard. Anyway, it was only one flight, and she bounced right up.

And I admit my russian totally sucks, its oozhis kashmar! I don't think I've ever said anything in the correct form, I can barely say anything at all, my mouth just doesn't easily adjust to the weird way they combine letters in russian words. It took me 3 days to say zdrasvoytye'. Hi is so much easier. My problem is that I'm lazy, I finally found my oochitel at a wine shop close to where I live, but I don't take advantage of her offer of free lessons, I'm just dumb I guess.

Back to the bruises, no one has mentioned an even more likely source of abuse that I'm certain is much more common, and I have definitely seen evidence of it with 2 dyevs. One girl had very bad bruises that came from her stepfather at home, balck and blue finger marks on her arms and legs. Another girl had terrible knife scars on her arms and abdomen from some ghastly abuse from her drunken father when she was young. It was really horrible, that bastard deserves a fucking firing squad, though she said he died from drinking, which was way too good for him.

Time for more pics, don't you think?

Doctor_Skank

01-25-04, 12:50

Here is a small report on one of the things I like to do to add variety to the normal p4p experience.

Tochka parties:

In the never-ending pursuit to optimize the tochka experience, several months ago I hooked up with RogerMellie and we went to Night Flight together to get a bite to eat and check out the selection. We had both more or less agreed beforehand to not select a NF girl, but once in that place you never know what is going to happen. After some strategic discussion upstairs at the restaurant, we went downstairs to the bar and checked out the girls. An average selection but an entertaining one. I somewhat jealously observed RM tease the dyevs and collect several mobile numbers of girls he would never call and I myself had my hands full with a big-titted Korean hottie who was lustily nibbling on my neck and whispering dirty things into my ear while she rubbed my hardening johnson through my pants and pressed her swelling tits against my chest. Later we would christen her „korean porn star“ because she seemed horny as hell. And she made me horny as hell as well…I was very tempted to select her despite the high price tag of $250 as I am certain that she fucked like a maniac. But we had earlier decided to have our first „tochka party“, meaning quite simply picking out girls together and taking them back to an apartment and having a few drinks with the girls and fucking both of them. As I am sure Roger can attest to, it was a big success and a very rewarding evening.

Several months later and this time I being with Ca_Traveler, we again decided to throw a tochka party of sorts. Having been to CF together and being somewhat disappointed in the selection and turned off by the drunken and boisterous crowd of slovenly guys there (can sometimes happen at CF), we elected to stroll down the street to the nearby tochka. There we made our selection at about 1am from „the leftovers“… fortunately there were still a few very fuckable girls there. I even saw a girl I had selected earlier from the Grand Marriott tochka, the SmolenskChick I posted on a while back. She smiled and whispered something to her girlfriends when she saw me. God knows what she said, I hope it was positive! Somehow in moving from the Grand Marriott tochka to the one near CF she had also jumped in price from $100 to $150. In any case I wanted a new girl so she was out of luck. Both of these tochkas are now the „no BBBJ“ kind, so I think they are obviously linked.

I picked a short 22-year old brunette with a cute face, a lovely smile and a petite figure who was supposedly only 3 weeks into the game. Ca_T picked a taller girl, a fair-haired 19-year old cutie with a very impressive rack. Having both selected $100 Ukrainian girls (is that all that there is left in these tochkas?) we went back to Ca_T’s pad and proceeded to warm the girls up, but not before having an argument with our Georgian cab driver, who wanted 1000 rubles for a seat in his shitty Lada which we had supposedly broken. It was both sad and comical to observe our dates rip into him verbally and mock him, knowing that we were in charge of the situation. We gave him 200 rubles for the trip and were on our way. His broken seat really wasn’t our fault and I am sure he could fix it with some metal wire and some chewing gum, as Russia is a country in which everybody seems to be some unemplyed rocket scientist or something.

Certainly we are not the first guys to come up with this idea and I am sure that all tochka girls have been through tochka parties of a different kind in which 3 or 4 guys have their way with a single girl, but our democratic version seemed to again reap the same benefits of my first such experience.

The girls seemed relaxed and happy to be able to speak with one another. Although there is some latent danger that they could have plotted something against us, we were both quite wary and I think the presence of 2 men in the room made them understand their position. After a few drinks and a whole tobacco field’s worth of cigarettes (do all hos smoke Parliament?) we ended up in separate bedrooms and worked our girls over. After round one we met up again and Ca_T’s 19-year old cutie looked very satisfied. She was loud as hell in bed too, and would continue to be so through the night. Ca_T did me the great favor of popping in to my room at the beginning of my session and snapping a couple of action shots, of which I will post some PG-13 pics here and in the photo gallery.

This was a night in which I really reconsidered my preference to have the girls stay over, as I ended up with no sleep. I could have dealt with the other girl’s incessant moaning and screaming as Ca_T hit her again for his round 2 or 3 at 4am, but my own efforts to just SLEEP were foiled by my little Svetlana, who kept waking me and demanding more sex. I don’t know what Ca_T put in her drink but I hope he has had it patented. Curiously (as I mentioned in a previous post) she began the night insisting on CBJ but soon was happily sucking away BBBJ, and allowed my fave the face fuck and later even asked me to fuck her coverless for round 3, which I declined to do and instead fucked her from behind with a condom before collapsing into a sex-induced coma.

Anyway, we all somehow survived the se-filled night and I gave her 100 RUR for the taxi ride home at about 9am. We’ve SMSed a few times, but I doubt I’ll see her again.

The advantages of a tochka party are simple in my opinion:

• everybody is more comfortable, a party atmosphere develops
• especially for those who speak little Russian, the conversatons don’t dry up as quickly
• switch-a-roo is possible, more bang for your buck
• surprise photo ops, once the pic is taken there isn’t a damn thing she can do about it
• there is less chance of her going cold, the pressure factor on her with more men in the room is higher

In any case, it is a nice alternative to going it alone. Here is Svetlana, regrettably the pic had to be cropped as I am in it.

CA Traveler

01-25-04, 23:02

doc... I appreciate that you're trying to compliment an ol' man, but, really guys, it was doc that kept waking me up pounding her head against the living room wall! In fact, since this was my second night in my new apartment, I was afraid that I'd get kicked out because doc and svet were pounding away at 0500.

Anyway, I'll contribute my "late-night beauty" to the mix. Although, I wouldn't normally have picked her, she turned out to be very accomodating and receptive to anything I had to offer!

Actually, doc should have let me crop his photos... he cut out all of the good stuff!

sentry20124

01-27-04, 13:33

I am headed to Moscow in March. From reading the reports (which are great - thanks) I've got a pretty good idea about the P4P scene.

I was wondering if anyone could point me to some places to find the "freebies".

Stravinsky

01-27-04, 16:23

Mangus Man,

Understood.

I have found the Russians to be remarkably forgiving of people, such as myself, who regularly mangle their language. They are so amazed to hear an American speaking Russian that they seem to regard you from an entirely different perspective. Plus, as Doc has pointed out, when you get your dyevs back to the gosteeneetsa, and they start chatting away, it's nice to know if they're insulting you or complimenting you.

If zdrastvooeetseeya is too tough, try pree-VYET. It's basically "Hi" in Russian and can be used in most day-to-day situations, unless, of course, you are meeting gospodeen Putin.

And yes, more photos! Ukrainian dyevs are my favorite too!

Stravinsky

Shostakovich

01-27-04, 20:21

Dear Members,

I have seen this great forum 2 weeks ago for first time and I am very impressed about your detailed reports.

Thanks to all for the very usefull information!

Since six Years I travel now to Russia for about 4-5 times a year.

Many of your reports remember me the goods times I had there and help me in that times I am not in Russia.

Its a plessure for me to share also my experience with you.

Moscow December 12. - 18. 2003

Visited CF more less every night and learned that quality of girls is less than in August during my last visit. Price level was almost 100 US but all were asking for 150 US at the beginning.

Have taken only 1 night a girl from this place and found only a very professional one and got no GF.

All the others a was afraid of the same shit could happend to me and did not try again.

Second night found a medium looking girl from the line up near CF and was very happy.

Full service including BBBJ, ATM with CIM.

Girl was staying all night until 10 a.m.

Got telephone no. and meet her again last evening.

The days after I was in Kazan where the service is very low but found within 10 minutes a freebe in a steakhouse.

Will write more detailed reports soon but I am hurry today.

About the general questions about Police controled line ups i have no bad experience but perhaps will change next week!?

BBBJ was allways possible without negioations.

Will be from Friday January 30 in Moscow and of course will provide more informations up to date.

If somebody likes to get a beer with me in Moscow please send pm i woul appreciate.

One more time sorry for the short report. Have to learn how to write interesting reports but will be only question of timeand today is last day with internet before Moscow.

Also on my english I will work!

Best regards

Shostakovich

sentry20124

01-28-04, 06:17

I believe I more or less answered my own question about where to find freebies by doing a little more attentive reading and looking at exile.ru, etc. Any current recommendations would still be appreciated - kinda lookin for the 25-30 year range.

I am not staying at a high-priced american hotel, so most likely I will have to deal with security when bringing anybody in. In the likely event that I can't talk my way out of it - how much is expected for a tip to these guys?

Doctor_Skank

01-28-04, 09:07

Sentry 20124,

The freebies are everywhere, in every club, bar and on every streetcorner. Don't be shy. If you get shot down, try another. The supply is endless. That secret dyev factory just west of the Urals is still cranking them out at record pace. I even hear production is up this year. Viva Putin!

The most common expat places that come to mind are Karma Bar, Papa Johns, Hippopotam, Voodoo Lounge, Real McCoy, Propaganda, Phlegmatic Dog... I am sure I have forgotten a few top addresses, but there are cute available girls really just about anywhere and everywhere.

My only advice is to keep trying and don't be shy, you will succeed sooner or later...most probably sooner.

Example: I just got an SMS from a girl I had chatted up and basically mauled on the dancefloor (Ca_T may remember her) ... I left home alone that night and had written her off... now she's begging me to call her. I doubt I will, but she'd be a sure thing.

Or a couple of weeks back at Real McCoy I spoke to a girl asking "Do I know you? Is your name Masha? " It was a real question, but also simultaneously the oldest and lamest line in the book. Guess what, it worked.

The real question for those on a short trip is whether or not it is worth the time and effort with no guarantee of success vs. just paying $100 and having your evening made.

Nothing is worse than coming back to reality as the club closes at 5am and noticing you are alone... and its cold outside...and you are lonely. Your options at 5am are...well, you have no options.

If you really are interested in both worlds and don't have time but do have energy, try going for a tochka or CF or NF girl early (like midnight) and then go clubbing at 2-3am. On a weeknight the clubs will be really in full swing at that time and you can maybe take home a freebie. I am in the enviable position of having a new girlfriend that has to be home at 2am...leaving the rest of the night for hunting!

Another thing, if you don't score a freebie...don't fret. Nobody scores all the time. Nonetheless, unless you are used to and spoiled by other Eastern European countries, the availability of babes in Moscow will knock you on your ass.

MichaelGage

01-28-04, 10:24

And don't forget just riding the metros and talking to girls... I pick up at least one that way every time I'm in Moscow. You can pull half a dozen phone numbers in one trip through the center, then call them throughout the week. A coffee here or there allows them to trust you. I was shopping for some food for my flat yesterday, and started talking to one in the aisle. We ended up at a small cafe for about 2 hours, which was genuine fun and met again later that night for a walk down tverskaya to see the city at night. I took her home for a great night of simple sex, no head banging, but lots of affection and love. So freebies are easy, enjoy.

MichaelGage

01-28-04, 10:33

for those guys who are a bit older, or think you are not so handsome, don't lose heart either.. there are tons and tons of single moms who are desperate for boyfriends... I've flirted with many grocery shopping and when they see that you are not bothered by their children, they are very open to meeting with you. I've had a few home cooked meals that way. One was with a very intelligent doctor who was living alone with her 2 daughters. Very wonderful time. She was love starved.

CA Traveler

01-28-04, 18:53

Just to add to doc's comments... If I'm planning a night out looking for regular girls, I tend to order in during the late-morning or early afternoon just to relieve the pressure of the evening. So, I don't become so "desperate" that I go for anything available. However, just in case I get lucky, I'm still rested enough to enjoy my evening!

Stoney Bee

01-29-04, 00:25

Hi,

I am new to the forum, so could someone explain to me what does "tochka" mean?

Ogman

01-30-04, 13:10

Tochka had me for a while too. Put simply Tochka means a line-up or where the streetwalkers hang out. An active corner, a metro stop. Some are organized with a pimp or madam managing the situation but most seemed independent that I saw.

Ogman

01-30-04, 13:17

Hey CA_Traveller:

I have appreciated your posts as well. From your description of tochkas, I may have answered incorerectly. the tochka or gathering of hookers I found was in and around the pedestrian underpass crossing under Tverskaya near the 2 metro stations of Pushkinskaya and Tverskaya. There must have been 15-20 girls working and most seemed loosely affiliated with a lady madam who was very understanding and willing to deal. The one that took me did not seemed connected to the lady I dealt with but she did know her.

Bez Bezarra

01-30-04, 13:59

CaTrav is very correct in his method of "Get the baby batter off the brain".

This is always the way to go, because of two reasons. You have the swagger of having finished off some trim, so that your personality exudes not only sexual power, but also that if your freebie girl won't put out after making out, you're balls won't explode due to earlier release.

You'll actually be able to pick up a vibe from some of the dyevs that they see that you don't care that they want to stop, and it sometimes can make them give in by working in reverse against them, which is very cool

This has always worked well when I've been chasing shy University students for dinner dates. Just be careful with your timing, in case the afternooners are running late. You end up running them together a bit. Such problems! I wish I had them now!

Doctor_Skank

01-30-04, 15:42

Ogman,

From what I have been able to gather, ALL tochkas are all very organized and controlled by the mafia. They import the girls, generally house them in various apartments, take care of them, "clarify" their residency issues, control them, trade them and make a hell of a lot of money off of them, eventually releasing the girls from their debt...kind of like indentured servants. There are likely some girls trying to be independent streetwalkers, but I have never personally met one. Any group of girls hanging out in the game is defintely under the watchful eye of someone. CF and NF girls as well as many internet girls are more or less independents and make a lot more money than the tochka girls. Tochka girls, who seem to be almost entirely non-Muscovites and most even non-Russian, will either go home after their tour with their earned cash or stick around Moscow and try to either become a more profitable independent ala CF or NF, work in a salon or in the internet or try to make an honest living...although I imagine many will continue to turn tricks as there is more money to be made there than working some regular job. Given the tochka girls relative lack of education or vocational skills (beyond blow jobs and butt fucking) their career opportunities in the "bolshoy gorod" are very limited. Many of them are downright adorable, but their life is a rough one. Their resilience and ability to maintain a positive attitude is more than remarkable. Being the players that we are, we sometimes forget that every one of them is somebody's daughter, sister or even wife. Like the Thai girls who support families back home, many of the girls are working to pay for a child or parents back home in the Ukraine or Moldova or in some Russian dump in the middle of nowhere. As much as possible and certainly without spoiling them, I try to treat them with respect and hope that WSG members do the same. That said, it doesn't mean you should let them manipulate or push you around. Many will try to get away with as little effort as possible...we WSG members should also be united in expressing our "right" to an uncovered blow job, kissing and most any other demand that we have sexually.

Whoops, I'm off topic, sorry.

I'm off now and will attempt to pull off a threesome with two bisexual teens...wish me luck.

I'm writing from a great internet pub called "the Phlegmatic Dog" located near Red Square in the underground shopping complex there (where the first Chechen bomb went off several years ago). You can't get to it from the inside, you have to go around to the back side where the fountains are and you'll find the door there, one level below MacDonalds and close to the English Pub. Great place and full of babes, most chatting ICQ or writing e-mails to some suitor somewhere...hopefully to some of you guys out there!

CA Traveler

01-30-04, 17:27

doc... very well said and saved me many keystrokes! :)

Your hoped for 3some weekend is this weekend? I thought it was last week. Keep me posted... I'll thinking about it as I prepared to make the return trip eastward on Wednesday!

ogman... I must say that I've never seen any sign of a lineup around Pushkinskaya or Tverskaya metros, but that only means that I may not have been there late enough to see the action. Since I have been staying up near metro Belarusski in a temporary apt and now with my permanent apt up there, there is no need for me to be in that area late at night.

I'm meeting a group of fellow mongers at NF in early March for dinner so I may try to check out the action that you've reported.

ALSO, if anyone wants to join a group of 7-10 fellow mongers in Moscow anytime during the week beginning March 5, let me know via PM and I'll give you the info. You'll have to get your own apartment because my guy flaked on me and I no longer can recommend him as a good source.

OttoGraham

01-30-04, 18:28

Rastaman, you will find some girls with what Spike Lee called "Jungle Fever," but others will prefer not to go with someone other than their own race. It depends on the girl.

-Uncle Otto

Kafka

01-30-04, 18:56

DSkank, LOL. wish I was there.

Shostakovich

01-30-04, 19:43

Rastaman,

I have a very good friend which is black in Moscow and he is enjoying the live there very much!

But take care some places such as famous clubs löike Circus and Zeppelin are afreid of black guys because in Russia all black guys are drug dealers.

Sorry for this but you should go for Papa Johns or Cabana where most of the black guys of Moscow are and finaly the girls know what for they are there.

If you need further questions please sen pm will provide you more detailed informations thrue my friend.

Russia is very big with different kind of ethnic groups but against black guys they are little bit shy.

Good luck!

Shostakovich

CA Traveler

01-30-04, 23:20

rm... You find some clubs that cater to black guys and are frequented by alot of hot chicks and also some working girls. CF has a mix of every flavor available and no one seems put off by anyone.

Of course, as Otto said, each girl will make the decision and YMMV. Meet the right girl and you'll have a ball... meet a jerk and your night will be hell. Probably the same as anyplace else!

If you visit Moscow, be sure to register your passport/visa and never leave home without it!

Stravinsky

01-31-04, 05:28

Doc,

That underground shopping complex you mentioned near Kracnaya Ploshod, where is that exactly? Is it underneath GUM? On which street is the entrance?

Thanks,

Stravinsky

Vegamars

01-31-04, 12:46

New claim-- ALL girls from Russia have been involved in some kind of prostitution in one way or another.
Just think a little bit before you object right away,as far as I'm concerned ALL women from Russia have more than one boyfriend including those who're married,which is great at first sight for you guys???

Bez Bezarra

01-31-04, 16:42

Vega,

This is apparently true also for women of Ukraine. The very first Ukrainian monger I spoke to the very first time I came to Kiev, I asked him about Ukraine women. He was very sure, he told me, that every woman in Ukraine is a prostitute, every one, young, old, student, married, doesn't matter, the whole country. Each has her own price, a little or a lot, but every one has a price to give her punany to a buyer. Money's too hard to come buy for them, so they all accept gifts in exchange for what we want.

CA Traveler

01-31-04, 17:26

vm... IMHO, it depends on your definition of prostitution. Broadly defined you could be right, but couldn't you say the same thing about a beautiful 20+ woman, gainfully employed, sitting at a bar in NYC or LA asking a male, young or old, about his job... his auto... his income... his house? All trying to get a handle on his status in order to decide if it is worth making a play?

It is a widely accepted fact among frequent visitors to Russia that the typical RU girl is always looking to upgrade. Of course, if you're going to upgrade it always make sense to take it for a trial run... doesn't it?

You only have to search omen.ru for women with "married" as a criteria and you realize that there are many married RU women that are looking... of course, that number may be multiplied many times over for the single RU female!

Of course, this attitude is good for the mongers looking to "play" with real girls, but it also is important to keep in mind so you don't lose you head and do something crazy! From this monger's view, it all has to be kept in perspective.

Stravinsky

01-31-04, 17:44

Does anyone have any recent experience with the Hotel Rossia? I understand that there are dyev's working in the hotel, but I'm wondering about bringing them in from NF or a tochka.

Cymru T posted that he was staying there on his trip, but nothing further.

Thanks,

Stravinsky

Doctor_Skank

01-31-04, 21:43

Stravinsky,

The underground shopping complex is connected to the Okhotny Riad/Teatralnaya metro stations and its outdoor entrance is located in front of the Moskva Hotel, or across the street from the National Hotel. There is a big glass dome on the top and it is a popular place for young people to hang out in winter and in summer. They used to have a tochka right smack on top of it, but that was removed by an image-conscious Putin.

Threesome:
As fo my threesome, it didn't work out. :( Girl one seems to be putting her claws into me and I think she isn't letting girl two get too close. I've fucked them both individually and we've even had a threesome makeout session together, but I have yet to pull off the elusive threesome. damnit! Last night girl one showed up with a different girlfriend, also a grade B model and a singer. We had a great time last night and ended up at my pad, with the singer singing beautiful love songs while I made out with girl one. Eventually new girl crashed on the couch while I boned girl 1 in my bed, but I still haven't reached my goal. BTW: I went to Garazh last night, a wannabe elitny club. Babes o'plenty...even at 5am!

Russian girls:
Russian girls all prostitutes? C'mon guys, don't be so bitter and jaded. There are certain factors all girls are interested in...WORLDWIDE. In developing nations this is more prominent...but let's face facts, their attitude is to our advantage... if they didn't want to upgrade, many of them wouldn't give us the time of day. I say look at it positively and let your dollar-fueled mojo work it's magic, and I still maintain my opinion that they are girls just like any other girls.... except 10x as good-looking and more than happy to go to bed with you without the annoying long courtship period. They want to have fun and they want to have it NOW. Maintain that attitude yourself and you'll do a lot better than you would if you bring your Western emasculating dating attitudes with you.

I am off again...I slept all day (I didn't even see daylight today...) and am rested for an all-nighter...

Doctor_Skank

01-31-04, 21:59

Rastaman,

As for race issues, you'll have to judge for yourself. None of us white guys really can predict the girls reaction. Some will love black guys, some won't. There are certain clubs in Moscow frequented by black African students. These clubs are shunned by some, others flock there... in general American black guys will do better than Africans...especially if you can fulfill the MTV and Hollywood stereotypes. Judging from what I have seen and read, it isn't the top market for black guys that Scandanavia, Australia or Northern Europe is.

Seek Rus

01-31-04, 21:59

I wanna know in what part of omen.ru you guys search? I see everything in ciryllics and cant understand, I know their is a part when are photos of girls with emails address. Its that the part you guys go?

As for my view, and counting stories of you guys, you guys got to have so much money to spend 100$ here and 100$ there, can apply in any of your jobs?

CA Traveler

01-31-04, 22:46

doc... your point re: prostitutes was exactly what I was trying to say, but perhaps a little too subtlely.

Sorry to here about the double.

I've heard that Garage is or was one of the places that the NF head to after the nights at NF is over. Sounds like a spot to visit.

DeepInTexas

02-01-04, 01:50

Rastaman. I don't know if this work for you, but here it is.

I used to work with this guy who was a former navy man and as it's relevant, black. He was mostly stationed in carrier groups both in the pacific and in the med.

He told me that for the first several foreign port stops, he was hard pressed sometimes to even get a working girl to go with him. Finally he asked some of the other black guys to help him out.

He was told that the reason he was having trouble wasn't because he was black. It was because he was black American.

They told him that most people around the world assume only two things about a black American. He's a drug dealer and hung like a horse.

That's because they only see a black American in either a porn flick or a main stream movie. like the gangster flicks which were so popular back in the early 90's. They were scared they would either get shot by him, and that would negate the large penis stereotype benefit.

That's when they helped him with his accent. His british accent.

Yup, it seems that they think a black man from America is a thug, and a black man from Africa is to primitive or uneducated, but a black man from Briton is all right.

It's that whole stereotype thing again, but he said it worked for him. He said that then they figured he was just like all Britons. (Forgive the following if your British) Uptight. Anal. Conservative with a gentleman upbringing.

He said when he started faking a British accent and lost the uniform for the afternoon, they loved him. Especially the local girls.

He said that even some of the chicks he would hook up with would try and spank him to please him, thinking that all Britons wanted that. LOL Oh the stories he would tell.

Anyway, I hope that the above helps and doesn't offend you. Having to pretend and all. Personally I do it all the time in other places. British accent or Australian. Deep southern drawl even though I'm not a native Texan. What ever they want to hear is how I talk.

Hell, I picked up a drunk chick in Dallas once by smoking my cigarette euro style and faking that I was french. She loved it! :)

DIT

Vegamars

02-01-04, 13:14

It's also true for every woman from the States or any other country on the wide sense of prostitution.
I just wanted to point out the discussion for girlfriends vs prostitutes on this particular forum doesn't fit in at all.

Doctor_Skank

02-01-04, 13:17

Ca_T:

Garazh is supposedly a club that NF girls go to when off duty or when their night doesnt yield any work... couldn't tell if there were working girls there, but there were quite a few cute girls and some skanky yet attractive women...25+ in age, dancing there and seemingly looking for company.

It is more or less across the street from NF and in a cellar. Nice place, but small and can get really crowded... I think it is a great place to go at 5am or so when the other clubs close...Garazh is open 24 hours.

Vegamars:

I understand your point, but I think the discussion is interesting, as anybody who spends any amount of time in Moscow will weigh his options girlfriend vs. prostitute. One thing is for sure though, a girlfriend can easily end up costing more than a prostitute, but she doesn't have to. The simpler girls, especially those not living in the center of Moscow, are remarkably modest in expense and I have found some to be even intimidated by upscale Moscow clubs and "big city" Moscow prices. Anyone who has a chance, the inclination and the time...and EVERYONE has a chance, should try normal Russian girls just to learn more about Russian women and to judge for themselves. There is a lot speaking for both options, I prefer the mix.

Street Sleuth

02-01-04, 18:36

Just thought I'd chime in here, breifly, regarding the whole "all Russian/Ukrainian women are prostitutes" ordeal.

There are certainly a lot of Slavic women that are, well, sexually liberal. And there are many that are attracted to wealth. If you go to nightclubs and such, these are the women you will find. Bear in mind, there are lots of Slavic women that wouldn't go to nightclubs, are highly intellectual, sincere, and deep (not highly interested in a superficial life-style). Slavic women, of this nature, I find to be even more sincere than their Western counterparts.

Also bear in mind, American women are known as the hoes of the planet. And for good reason. If you go to nightclubs in major U.S. cities, and observe their behavior, you'll understand why this is the perception. I'd venture to say the average American girl has more one-night stands under her belt than the average Russian girl. And no one can possibly say that American women aren't superficial and financially motivated, we aren't the wealthiest nation in the world for nothing.

Hedonist

02-01-04, 22:43

If you hang out in clubs that are not elitnyi you have much better chances for meeting such girls. Last summer I met such a girl in Dirty Dancing on a Friday night and got her phone number. We had dinner on Saturday in Genatsvale, a mid-scale Georgian restaurant, and then went to Karma Bar for dancing. That night she didn't wanna come to my apartment. On Sunday afternoon we met and went to the Gorbushka for some pirate CD shopping. It was really cold outside, and she accepted having tea in my apartment. She was still not fully trusting me to that point. We watched some TV and had tea and went out to eat. I think there I guess I gained her trust since I was letting her out of my apartment without having tried to jump on her. Anyways, after the dinner at "McDonald's" we decided to go back to my apartment, and she never left my apartment that night, went to her job in the morning directly from my place. After our first session, nearly for one hour, we discussed what excuse she should tell her mom...

I kept seeing her. Later on whenever I proposed to eat in a restaurant she refused saying "Why to go to a restaurant, I'll cook better and it will be cheaper!". I learned a lot from her about how "normal" Russians live and got a chance to practice my Russian.

Even though these "normal" Russian girls don't want your money or gifts in return, they want actually more, they want your love. She'll be thinking of you during the day at her work while you are fucking just another Natasha in a salon or in the comfort of you apartment. Since we are lightheartedly looking just for play there's a risk of breaking hearts in the process...

Vegamars

02-02-04, 13:05

That's the point actually,just as you're having many short-term encounters out there,any normal Russian woman is doing the same thing,either for just love or just presents or both or none,whatever the reason is they have the morals for it.
Never get into the false impression that you're the only guy around,especially on the short run and of course this not limited to only Russia.

Doctor_Skank

02-02-04, 17:40

Street Sleuth and Hedonist, thanks for your comments. You are of course both right and that is what I have been saying all along, Russian girls can be remarkably normal and most are like girls all around the world who fall in love, build dreams in their head and have their hearts broken by guys like us who just want to fuck them for awhile. Some are able to handle it better than others. Some know the score from the beginning, others are naive or simply loving enough to trust us.

Love is a hazard and over the last few years it has given Doc_Skank a moral crisis or two. I am certain that there are some girls and some girls parents out there who just despise me for clumsily stomping all over some girls heart. Especially with the younger and poorer girls, you have to ask yourself if you are ready to put yourself in the position to be "THE guy", the knight in shining armor, whom she tells her parents about and her friends, where she waits desperately for an SMS or a phone call, where she starts dreaming of a life with you (these girls are often looking to marry young)...you show her heaven and then unceremoniously take it away from her. It can be a collosal embarassment for her as well, magnifying the pain.

Vegamars: Sure some girls are playing with us too... that is also the nature of the game and we have to accept that, fair is fair.

Bringing this back to the focus if the forum, the lack of emotional connection is a central appeal of p4p... fire and forget.... as someone once said, "you don't pay them to stay, you pay them to leave".

Explorer8939

02-02-04, 19:19

So, I have made it to freezing Moscow, and all you guys are talking about is love. Did I mistype and end up some feminist web site?

OttoGraham

02-02-04, 20:50

Indeed, Explorer. I want to wretch! :p

Having had me a number of Russkie girlfriends, I am now the first one to contend that they are desirable chiefly for their overall beauty, sluttiness, and ability to please their man in the sack.

Out of bed is COMPLETELY a different story!

-Uncle Otto

Eros74

02-02-04, 21:52

Hi All Guys,

I want to keep on talking about this time. I was in Moscow for the first time, not only for sex, but also with a little hope to find a girlfriend, crazy?

Probably, but I am sure that can exist a russian woman, different from the others or not?

I think you are mainly from the UAS, right?

So how the situation in The States?

Here in italy I know only a few number of my friens married with russian woman and all of them are divorced. How is in USA?

A big greeting to ALL, from the city of Giulietta and Romeo, city of ONLY platonic love. Sigh: O(

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to add a space after commas and after periods. To avoid delays in future reports, please include one blank space after commas and one blank space after the period at the end of sentences. Thanks!

Stravinsky

02-03-04, 03:15

Dya-dya Otto,

Sounds like you just had the wrong Russkie girlfriends.

Doctor_Skank

02-03-04, 08:54

Explorer and OttoGraham:

Sorry to have strayed from the path and to have allowed the more sentimental side of me to take charge... please don't hold it against me! :) I had kind of a shit weekend in which dyevs screwed with my head. I can't get enough of them, in and out of bed, for me they are the most desirable women in the world (Slavic women in general actually) even though they do occassionally drive me crazy. I'll continue my research into all facets of the Russian female.

BTW: Was at CF on Sunday and it was DEAD. Really don't remember ever seeing it so empty on a Sunday, which otherwise can be a really great night. Curiously enough there were about 10 Asian girls there, some very cute, but none of them working and very hard to communicate with...they were almost defensive in their posture.

RedDog

02-03-04, 11:37

I have not so much expearance with girls from Russia but I have to say it is the same everywhere. Maybe in russia more girls are prostitutes or sexually open . but it the USA or in Italy if you run after a girl chacing her with a fist full of dollars and a arm full of presents most will take you fro a ride to bankrupcy. I think it is not so hard to see a girl who is after your money and one who is really looking for love. And they are all to some degree out for both. If you see all of the mail order brides sites on line it is clear not all of these women are looking for trun love. and to meet a woman on line and then get maried 2 months later or something like this i think leaves very little chance for real sucsess. I know I would not think to mary a girl here after knowing her for 2 months but If i was hard up for sex and think withthe wrong head after a great night with a moscow woman marriage would almost sound rational I just hope i never fall into that trap.
sorry to perpetuate the on going arguement but i could not help my self

Swiss Tiger

02-03-04, 14:03

Consider this, if, in the first time you visit the north pole you see a polar bear or two, you may be inclined to think that the north pole is populated by many many bears, this of course is not the fact!

If your first experience (or first few experiences) are with Russian girls whom you pay for having sex with, then you will of course subliminally train yourself to stereo-type many other girls to be the same! In reality it is not a fact!

Don't fall in the trap, it is easy, but insulting to a nation of big hearted beauties otherwise!

I would finish by saying that the Russains have their own "quirks" and their own ideas of how relationships should flow. These differ in standard and also action from the habits of western women. The Chinese have their own way, as do Japanese...why shouldn't Russians, they are after all nearly Asia too!

For my part, I enjoy the Russians and their style.

Don't judge a book by its cover alone, and certainly look the gift horse in the mouth if you can!

Thats it from me.

ciao

Graybar

02-03-04, 15:14

I feel I need to add my 2 cents worth here.

Russian women in my opinion have definitely changed recently mainly due to the collapse of the former Soviet Union but also due to the dire financial straits they are in. The idea that they are the kind of women that are to sit home, just looking after the kids, doing the housework etc is now a myth. A lot of them are proud and many times frown upon Westerners taking a very patriotic stance. They may not show it but I believe that's how they feel. Surely they are more sexually liberated because they have probably been introduced to sex at a younger age but also because they have little taboos towards it unlike the West. One thing I have also found out is that they can also be extremely manipulative if they want.

Just in case I get flogged here for the above, I stress once more that this is my opinion and not a general issue.

Graybar

OttoGraham

02-03-04, 15:48

I appreciate Russian girls too, Tiger - but marry one?

I ain't gonna do it!

I know exactly one guy who has married a Russian/FSU girl who has stayed married with her. In every other case he was simply a meal ticket and she was a green card girl.

Cheaper to just cut out the interim steps and just pay for sex with them. ;)

-Uncle Otto

CA Traveler

02-03-04, 18:24

doc... It was dead on Sunday at CF because the American football Super Bowl was scheduled and the girls know that it would only be football fans in the house. Since the game didn't even start until about 0230, it makes sense.

OTOH, last year, I was there waiting for the game to start and I noticed two girls standing against the wall looking bored. So, I went over and began talking to them. I discovered that they came for the dancing and now the metro had stopped running and they were wondering what to do. I suggested to the best looking one that we could go back to my apt and dance to MTV. She told me she was with her friend and immediately invited her to join us. She talked to her friend, but they didn't seem very interested so I told her my name and told her to come get me if they wanted to go.

Finally the kickoff and I felt a tap on my shoulder and she said, "CT" we're ready to go... So, off we went to my apt where we filled the night with a 3way to top them all. At about 0700 they said they had to get home or they'd get in trouble and off they went. I gave them taxi money, 100 r. each.

Moral of the story... Just when things look the darkest, an opportunity presents itself!

Actually, I didn't mind missing the game at all...

Otto... I agree... Fun to play with, but a headache to bring home to keep!

Actually, I do like a mix of P4P and regular girls. Either way... it's going to cost you. I do like the short term rental option.

As my ol' daddy used to say... If it flies, floats or fucks... Rent it... Don't buy it!

Tufux

02-03-04, 18:32

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

Uncle Otto, if you'd like to find men who've been married to a Russian woman for more than the two years it takes to get a green card, join the RWL, the Russian woman mailing list.

If you go to the Golden Ring Hotel, don't bother with the strip club. They wanted something like $100 (or was it $200?) or more for a three-minute dance. Drinks overpriced also. Good-looking girls, though. I spoke with one, and she said she was just doing this for the money (natch) for college.

As for the working girls there, it is $100 an hour. They get only $25 of that. The rest goes for letting them live in the hotel. To reverse the old saying, in communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it is the other way around. The one girl I spoke to said there are about 11 girls in the hotel, though this was around New Year's and there might be more at other times of the year.

Stravinsky

02-03-04, 19:29

OK, OK, alright already, enough of this silliness.

Dya-dya Otto - If you cast your line into a tank of barracuda, you certainly must have some reasonable expectation that what you are going to catch is, well, a barracuda.

If you go looking for a girlfriend in a Moscow nightclub that is full of women who use their sex to take advantage of men, then it's only reasonable to expect that you will find a woman who is looking for a meal ticket and a green card.

But, please, let's not cast all Russian women in light of a few unfortunate experiences you may have had, particularly when they were very probably the result of less-than-perfect judgement on your part. And we all know which part I'm talking about. I think we've all been guilty of that.

Doc, don't apologize for talking about love. It's a noble cause that deserves consideration. After all, the holy grail of most mongers is not the BBBJ or the DFK or DATY but rather the GFE. We just don't want to have to wade through all the BS to get to it.

Stravinsky

MichaelGage

02-04-04, 05:16

couple interesting tid bits...

I spent 4 days in saratov, where the going hotel rate is 700 rubles an hour for top girls (night flight quality). Language is a plus, but the girls are plenty. Several salons listed on the internet (just search saratov and dosug). Also, you will find plenty of dosug phone numbers posted on telephone poles. There is a new BP partnership going on in Saratov, so the dyevs are reaching out for the foreigners like never before in hopes of eternal bliss in the land of opportunity.

Back to Moscow -- I took 5 friends to Nightflight. It was their first night in moscow, they had one night on the town before heading back state side... so I chose Nightflight for the quality. What was interesting is that I went through the crowd of girls explaining my situation -- that I was not important, but I wanted to make sure my friends had a good time. Every girl in the place gave me her phone number to call her when I was free, including two waitresses that are just typical students. Prices are much more negotiable over a cup of tea and I've been having quality fun ever since.

Interesting metro experience... I've found that whenever I need to speak to someone in english, if I choose a younger person they are more likely to be able to speak. So the other day I noticed a pretty girl so I asked her if she spoke english. She had no clue what I was asking... total blank stare, after which she turned and walked onto the waiting train. I hadn't taken 2 steps before a man accosted me, flashed a badge and in russian demanded to know why I was talking to the young girl.

Now remember rule #1 -- NEVER even attempt to speak russian to any authority. Play the dumb american. I asked the guy with a look of relief on my face, "Do you speak english? Where is metro blah-blah-blah." He went on in Russian until he was convinced i had no idea what he was saying. He then took me by the arm and led me to the police station at the top of the escalators where he introduced me to two militsia drinking coffee. Donuts have yet to get it on in Moscow.

These guys were cool. You american? sit here please! We love america! It is a great country!

The plainclothes who grabbed me for asking a girl if she spoke english was waved off, they checked my visa, and laughing told me to go.

Lesson learned? There must be men hitting on little girls in the metros. Can you imagine? Good to know they are protecting their assets.

OttoGraham

02-04-04, 06:36

Originally posted by Stravinsky

But, please, let's not cast all Russian women in light of a few unfortunate experiences you may have had, particularly when they were very probably the result of less-than-perfect judgement on your part. And we all know which part I'm talking about. I think we've all been guilty of that.

Who said they were unfortunate experiences? Those experiences were some of the best sex of my life, tovareesh!

Just not going to marry one and don't recommend anybody else do either. Exceptions happen, but they're exceptions! :D

-Uncle Otto

Doctor_Skank

02-04-04, 13:00

Ca_T,

Super Bowl: Way to take one for the team and take two dyevs on Super Bowl Sunday.... a true patriot! Last Sunday I met a very cool fellow WSG member there that night as well who also commented on the lack of selection. I hope it really was just the Super Bowl.

Still, the Super Bowl worked out for me too as I met an Asian girl I picked up at Karma Bar several months ago who just happened to be at CF. It was very comical because she wasn't really happy to see me at first (I "misplaced" her number") and she was insanely curious about how often I come to CF and if I was alone blah blah blah. Every freebie I have ever pulled from there asked the same question...guess the place's reputation is well-known! I really wasn't happy to see her either since I was bent on finding something new, but since the CF selection was nil, I took what the market offered that night. Wasn't anything to write home about though.

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about CF when you arrive, I haven't been happy with the selection there lately.

Stravinsky,

I won't stop worrying about love and emotions and what these girls are feeling as this is my nature and I much prefer being a passionate lover or even a naive dreamer to being a jaded pessimist. I get much more mileage out of it this way, for me and most often for the girl as well, both with pros and non-pros. GFE with pros is very possible and feels very real at times, which I think has 90% to do with the john's attitude and the way he handles the evening. Obviously nobody should ever fall in love with a pro girl, but doing a good job pretending over the course of an evening can yield some great results.

But yeah, I do worry about the normal girls sometimes. Certainly not about a one night stand freebie who knows what she is doing or a normal working girl, but I do take concern for those normal girls who fall in love and fall hard. I can't be completely callous about it.

MichaelGage:

Militia in metro: That is kinda scary, thanks for sharing. I am not intimidated by the militia but the notion of some goon with a badge lecturing me on morals while filtering through my passport because I chatted up a girl is a most unpleasant and embarassing situation. On several occassions older people have made comments to me after hearing me speak English to a young and cute gf, but I just shrugged it off and the gfs usually found it most amusing, almost as if proud to provoke the older people.

But your point is ABSOLUTELY right (everybody should follow this advice) in stating that one should avoid speaking Russian to the authorities, your chances of getting into worse trouble or maneuvering yourself into the quicksand of Russian bureaucracy are much higher if they think they can communicate with you. Sometimes being the "ignorant American" will save your ass. I've used this strategy of non-lingual skill (usually I wasn't faking it!) in several countries with the desired effect.

OttoGraham

02-04-04, 16:13

Originally posted by Doctor_Skank

I can't be completely callous about it.

Yes you can! Work harder! :D

-Uncle Otto

DeepInTexas

02-04-04, 19:05

Just wanted to say I'm all for this group getting back to talking about the sex adventures, the info on that, and of course pics of the women you just banged. :) The main purpose of this group.

However I would like to say a few quick things that are my own opinion. One being that for men, sex is the way we express love, where women find love in the relationship. For women, sex is sex, and we rarely hire a gal to just hang out with her. Ever paid a NF girl just to show you the sites? Exactly.

There for if were talking about paying women for sex, then I feel it's all right to talk a bit about love. Every guy who's paid enough women for sex can't help but think about the love part every once in a while. It's human. I think the fact it gets mentioned here every once in a while makes this group seem less like a collection of bullshit sex stories, and more like stories written by real people. (Not that the sex stories aren't deeply appreciated. :)

Also, if you don't like the quality of the women, sex aside, that your meeting, that's most likely your fault. (No offense intended)

Think she's greedy. Just into money or wouldn't make a good wife. Well were did you meet her? Want to meet a nice women? Go where nice women hang out. Go to church or somewhere similar. You can't crack on the women if the only place your meeting them is at clubs, bars, ect. I mean I for one don't look for women to date in the same part of Dallas where I'm trolling for easy sex, paid or otherwise. It's just common sense.

Especially sense most of the girls you talk about usually under twenty five. Ones with a lot of options, not enough life experience to know what they really want, and just want to party. I personally only fuck the girls under twenty five, but never date them for anything serous. (And that includes Russia, America, or wherever.)

Marrying Russian Women?

I do have three relatives married to Russian brides. No bullshit. All of them are for the most part happy. Any problems are the normal ones that. Nothing serous at all.

I don't' claim to know the most about the prostitutes in Russia. Many people here know way more then me about that. That's why I like to read there posts. (Keep them coming.)

I do though know a ton though about Russia it's self, the culture, history, the day to day life of what they live in, expect, and are looking for. The ones over twenty five that is. The ones who do want to get married.

There sensual. Loving. Want to just have a stable guy who wants kids, won't cheat on them, and will be nice. Money is money of course, all girls everywhere prefer that, so it doesn't apply. (If I was a women, I'd want a wealthy husband over a poor one too.)

I do though have seven years of "mail order bride" research, backed up with a ton of conversations with three actual, average normal, russian relative who were "russian brides. Russian brides being nothing more then really long distance dating. It's not like a stamp was put on there back and they were mailed off. LOL

I won't discuss it here, not appropriate, but of course you could email me with questions. Just PM me for my email address.

I guess what I'm saying is. This place is for discussing about sex with Russian women. However, I find it interesting that an entire population of women are thought of as lousy marriage material based on encounters based on getting some. Paid for or even pick up's.

Fact is, if a person was to post here that they found a girl to marry in Russia, they probably don't have any useful info based on her for mongering.

It doesn't amaze me though at all that you don't want to marry the girl you just paid to have sex with, or the twenty two year old you picked up in a cafe and then banged with in 48 hours. Why does then seem to amaze so many of you?

I don't' know. Maybe I'm just rambling. Bring on the sex reports with a lot of hot pics. :)

DIT

Doctor Skank. You provide so much great info, I for one support you for every once in a while interjection and reflecting. Go right ahead. It's those quality's that make me trust your reports. That's why I know your advice on getting the GF experience from a paid girl is real.

GF factor ironically being the one thing most guys here mention, but then claim shouldn't apply or be talked about. I mean lately everyone is claiming that emotion shouldn't be mentioned at all in here, but most of them have brushed on it in almost every report.

But don't' take my word for it. Look back at how often the reports talk about the importance of GF, and how rarely any one every said the girl who just laid there, but was cute and tight, was still really good and worth the dough. WTF

Tattooed Guy

02-05-04, 00:54

Hi all,

Just registered, but been following this board for a while, and I must say,I'm amazed how open some people are, it's great. The reason of my post is that I'm off to Moscow in a couple of weeks, just had my invitation. I'm a tattoo-artist and invited by another tattoo-artist (female). Now I don't know where I gonna get with her, lol, but do want to explore some others aswell while I'm there. The thing is, I'm not a typical guy in a suit (no offence, but it's not my style), I wear jeans, T-shirts -well will be a bit cold now- suntanned (I live in Spain) and have a shaven head, but can cover all my tattoos. The thing is now that hearinig and reading things about Russian girls, is that I don't think I'll get some help of my female invitè to score somewhere else. I should understand that I guess, but hey I'm a guy with needs lol. I do know that Moscow is getting more liberated, but don't know how the girls feel about that, pro's and non-pro's. To be honoust I like the idea more to get a non-working girl then a pro, even if I have to give her a tip lol..I'm just not the quick honky-bonky type, and like to have some fun aswell, and feel some emotion (I read more about this here and it seams that guys aren't as un-passionate as woman really think) Now ofcourse I will be spending time in a tattoo-shop wich is a good start for chat-ups (just experience in my own shop lol, but that's in Spain). But I could use some advice from the more experienced Russian travellers here, where, how, what, oh and privet is about the only Russian word I know, except a few parts of the body from a Russian girl I used to see overhere then, lol.

Thanks in advance and who knows there will be some pics following.

EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to remove the multiple periods throughout the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please consider using a comma to separate the phrases in your sentences and a single period at the end of each sentence. Thanks!

TQ Rider

02-05-04, 04:31

I am just back from a quick trip to Moscow. Given the short amount of time I had, I went for the tried and true NF. No complaints.

A while back there were posts regarding a Salon called Katenka which I had the pleasure of visiting on one of my previous trips. Does anyone know if this place is still open? I lost the phone number and the web page seems to have been dropped.

Andy J

02-05-04, 10:06

(moved thread from the st pete forum)

when was the last time i stayed in the rossia? i seem to remember staying in it about 12 or 18 months ago and did indeed pull a dyev from one or other of the coffee "bars" which are rep001tered up and down the corner stair shafts of that grim, square structure. not being in the mood for a long round of negotiation, i offered $50 and was accepted immediately and off we went.

not sure 'bout bringin chicas from nf or elsewhere, but i'd imagine you'd run into trouble real fast with the guys minding the lifts and stairs who check the papers of all those passing by. likewise with the floor-ladies who aren't *too* easy to get past, but it can be managed with some careful timing, a quick walk and a bit of luck :-) btw, has anyone pulled a floor-lady? some of them were quite cute, but i couldn't quite bring myself to ask them. their fearsome reputation is not undeserved in my experience.

strange thing #61 in the rossia -- has anybody booked in after midnight? i did some years back and was given a room for two nights, for the price of one, since, i was told, the booking system considers a 'night' to be any period from 2330h to 0030h for which you're booked in, so they booked me in for the following evening, then let me have the room immediately which i could have stayed on in for the following evening for free, if i'd wanted to.

there are plenty of modernized rooms in the 6,000-odd room hotel and these are available at, i suppose, around $70 per night, but it's hardly $70 well spent. go to the hotel for the convenience for one night if you're pressed for time, otherwise you'd be much better going to something like uncle pasha's surreal website at http://www.unclepasha.com/ and kipping at one of his places where there are no floor ladies, cops, or dodgy-looking security goons. you might even have a laugh, which you're most unlikely ever to do in the rossia.

Doctor_Skank

02-05-04, 14:00

DIT:

Thanks for the wise words. It is all about appreciating women.

I'd love to hear some mongering stories from others as well...I know they are out there...

The vampire-like dyev gfs sucked all the mongering strength out of me on my last trip, so I came back missing any new mongering pics or stories! I should be demoted! Will be back in Moscow soon, so more will follow...

Member 1621:

Tanned tattoo artist from Spain? If you aren't careful, you'll have to beat the girls off with a stick! Moscow isn't just designer suits and Mercedes S-Class limosuines, although that is the dominant image in upscale places. The club/bar scene is incredibly vibrant and varied. I wouldn't underestimate the women here, their tastes vary wildly I suspect once you tell the girls you are a tattoo artist, you will have already won the battle. Lots of tattooed girls here in all social classes... the pickup line possibilities for you are endless. Use your imagination.

I've stopped telling most girls that I am chatting up in clubs that I am a businessman... the "who cares, you and everybody else" stare I get from them reveals to me that I need a better approach. Particularly the younger girls are all interested in something more adventurous. So I have become more creative (Vegamars is right that creativity will go a long way in the game) Now I tell them whatever I feel like and can vaguely back up with some superficial knowledge or skill... photographer, novelist... once you've gained their interest the rest of the work becomes remarkably easy. Maybe I'll start telling them I am a tattoo artist?

My favorite line for pretentious Night Flight girls, who are so tactful as to ask such polite questions as "are you a REALLY REALLY rich?" or "do you have a big dick?" is that I am a race car driver, from CNN or on the professional rodeo tour... They don't even blink an eye. I think they've heard everything before.

By the way, here is a pic taken just outside of Night Flight at 09:30am looking North towards Pushkin Square. Bring a coat, a hat and some gloves. Costa Brava it ain't.

MichaelGage

02-05-04, 17:50

Okay, I've been having fun but I'm going to be quiet about most of it as I do have some common sense, but yesterday I decided to see just how many numbers I could collect on one walk from the center (ohotny Ryad) up to the under pass at Pushkin, finishing at the cafe in the MacDonalds. I nabbed 13 phone numbers and not one girl was over 21, and they all were wonderful looking. As I believe a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush, I set up tons of meetings, but if one goes well I forget the others. There are always more numbers to collect. I'm averaging about 3 dates before they spread, but a few are ready immediately. It's a great way to spend the noon hour when I'm really too tired anyway. I'd rather look at a beautiful face than drink my coffee alone.

The interesting thing is I do write and I do take photos. I don't have to act, and I must agree with the early post that it does draw smiles and girls become very willing. I generally scope out the model types, and can usually hit the ones who have some modeling experience. One hint - if they are with an agency currently they are easy to spread as it comes with the territory. I can attest that when helping with the Miss University at MGU the top 10 runner ups were all voted for because of their willingness, and every judge was rewarded accordingly. We actually drew straws.

One funny experience -- I chatted up one young doll, and because I was tired, I just blurted out, "Do you want an american boyfriend?" She blushed, said "yes," I took her hand and we went for coffee. I bought her some perfume, sent her home. The next afternoon she was screaming real loud in my flat.

You guys want stories? My God, the stories are endless. Someday I'll write a book about experiences in Siberia, but for now I'm keeping a little quiet due to connections there. I like my life.

I'm off to visit a tochka!

Fenster

02-05-04, 21:50

Michael Gage,

When you're chatting up babes, are you doing it in Russian? And where specifically are you meeting them Ruskayas? You’re stopping them on the street and working your mojo? Or is it in covered malls, cafes, etc? Tell us more and spread the wealth MG.

Opus Dog

02-05-04, 23:30

How safe is Moscow? I read a little here and there about militia and being cautious to avoid getting ripped off, is there an F.A.Q. on safety? Also, what is the drug situation for viagra, pot, and other "casual" drugs?

Thanks.

Tattooed Guy

02-06-04, 18:43

Doctor_Skank,

Thanks for your reply, it sounds really promissing, and this to hear from a real expert on the front, I'll do my best, or let them do their best haha, and keep an eye open on the photo section.

Stravinsky

02-06-04, 19:24

MichaelGage,

So. . . are you, like, a Brad Pitt lookalike, or what?

Stravinsky

OttoGraham

02-06-04, 23:40

Russia in general is pretty safe - safer than most U.S. cities, I think.

That said, I wouldn't carry around a bankroll or all my credit cards at one time.

Also, some of the petty criminals in Russia wear militsia uniforms. ;)

Of course, today's despicable act of Chechen Muslim terrorism is a dreadful thing to see, and not the only incident but one of several over the past few years. Even so, one would be wrong to think of Moscow as a dangerous place.

-Uncle Otto

P.S. As for marijuana and other illegal drugs (Vitamin V is legal in Russia), if you're caught with them, all bets are off. A U.S. citizen found with pot and a GPS device a year or so ago was given a still jail sentence and accused of espionage. If you want to have an inside view of the Russian prison system, carry around a dime bag and see for yourself!

Stravinsky

02-07-04, 01:40

Andy J,

Thanks for the info on the Rossia. Sounds as if it hasn't changed too much. I do remember the dyezhoornaya's (floor ladys). Ochyen strashnee.

I'll try Dya-dya Pasha's website.

Stravinsky

Eros74

02-07-04, 22:21

Hy All,

With a little delay my report of my first time in Moscow.

I was there from 15 to 25 January and use to live in Italy. I was immediately surprised by beauty of Moscow women.

I was about 7 times in the Hungry Duck, 150-200 rubles entrance, only 20-30% are regular, the other about 100 USA dollar all the night long. Girls are about 6,7.

First night I took a woman for 80$. It was not a gfe, but only the first day.

Then I was in Propaganda: A little place in my opinion.

Karma Bar: Quite good, I like latin dance and a lot of regular beautyful women.

Gippopotam: Hard to find, really cheap, I think only regular young girls,

Parizkaja Zizks: Or something similar, a little more expensive, but good restaurant disko where I dance all the night, 2 phone number, meeting with one, no sex:O(.

When I was not in Doug and Barry I was in Hungry Duck. In Hungry I really enjoy myself, dance all the night, great strip show, when there's a men strip show, full of girls!

Chesterfield: Women about the 2am are not so beautyfull, about 7, and I never been there early in night.

I took a tochka 4 times, I think it's a better choice for quality-prices!

But my best experience it was when in Chesterfield's. I had the lucky to meet a Italian gut that work in Moscow. It was Saturday night about 4pm, after Karma and Hungry Duck. I was really tired and drunk, but it was only the beginning. We tried together to have some good price from women, no more than 50$, more to have fun than for really desire to take one, the girls were about 6, only a 2 or 3 they were a 7.

At 5:30am we go out to flat my new friend, to search on net. We tried dosug.ru prostitutki.ru and some other that I dont remember. He read the web page, I wrote the phone number. We were looking to have anal with a beautiful woman for about 100$. We were in Russia, not in italy right?

So at least, on about 7am, we started to telephone, he started. We find a privat club where woman in phone told us about 10 woman, she gave us the address, and we went out in the border of street to take a chastnika.

We arrived on the street, the number was 25, yet I dont understand how can be possible, there were only 23 and 27 house street number. My friend call again and woman told us to wait. In few minutes arrived a man, he asked if we phoned. We followed him walking for about 15-20 minutes, and then we arrived in front of very very old, high comunist building with, I am honest, a little of fear and trouble about the beauty of women inside. He opened the main door, and at first floor it was the flat of we was looking for. Immediately when he opened the door in the end of passage. I saw I big aquarium. Crazy Moscow!

So the women were 12, many 8, and I want to say 2 or 3 that I wanted to give a 9! I choose one blond, about 175cm, thin with a fabolous ass. We drank a coffee and then for ONLY 100$ I had one hour of super sex, BBJ, no anal, but fench kiss as she was my girlfriend! She was in city 2 hour by plane far from Moscow, and she suggest me to go out of Moscow to find beautiful women with better friendly-mind! I went to sleep when it was 10am Sunday morning!

So, I think Russian woman are really very beautiful, but for quality of sex, I was unlucky or not, I dont know, but only woman BBJTC when this is normal in CZ and SK! The same for anal, and easy to have regular.

I prefer Czech and Slovak Republic, where I was 37 times in last 4 year. Surely I will be again in Russia, but in some city out of Moscow, I have no problem to pay, but I go out of my budget if I have to pay every day!

So one of us has some feedback about Novgorod, I mean Novgorod about 100 miles far from Saint Pete?

I want to go there in July, and then some days in S.Pete, I hear is more easy to have sex with regular than in Moscow, is it true?

I thank you all in advance for every information about it,

Luca

EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited to meet the Forum's Posting Guidelines (http://www.wsgforum.com/postingguidelines.html).

Mulligan Stew

02-08-04, 02:35

here is one for you "russophiles":)

is there any way to rent an apartment in russia, specifically siberia but i would assume that the info would be pertinent anywhere in russia, without going through a middleman "agency"? as most of you know, they add at least $100 to the cost. i have my contact working on it in barnaul but she says that all the apartments listed in the local newspaper are ****ncy control. i can rent an apartment there for $160/month but i have to pay an additional $100 in fees to the acency in control of it. i would prefer to negotiate directly with the apartment owner. any ideas?

mulligan

Stravinsky

02-08-04, 23:14

Lukasek,

Can you give us an idea of where is this private club you visited and how to contact them?

Thanks,

Stravinsky

CA Traveler

02-09-04, 14:17

lukasek... Thanks for your report on Moscow. It's always nice to hear someone elses experiences. I am a little surprised that you enjoyed the Duck so much because my limited experiences there have been terrible both for quality and environment. I personally don't recommend anyone of my friends even visit it.

Strav... I suspect that lukasek visited one of the hundreds of apartments (brothels) around Moscow. Unless you speak or have a friend that speaks English it will be very difficult to experience it. I've heard very good things about the apartment scene, but I never seem to be with anyone that speaks Russian when I have an urge to visit one. If anyone ever finds an apartment that has an English speaking person... please pass it on for the crew.

Explorer8939

02-09-04, 15:27

A general request for you Muscovites: If you ever get the chance to try one of the Internet devochkas, please provide the link and a report (with rating). As much as it is interesting to learn of tochkas and picking up girls in bars, the most useful information is about Internet girls, since we all could find them. Plus, the Internet girls have photos on line.

Stravinsky

02-09-04, 16:39

Originally posted by CA Traveler

Unless you speak or have a friend that speaks English it will be very difficult to experience it. CAT,

I think you mean. . . unless you speak Russian. I do speak Russian, passably well, so the apartment scene is something I could take advantage of. If I get there again.

Hopefully, you may be in Mockba at the same time and then I could show YOU around. LOL

Stravinsky

Noah Chapin

02-09-04, 19:33

I noticed someone asking a question about safety out in Russia. I don't really agree that its that safe for a foreigner. I was in Saint Petersburg about a month ago. I had bought a token and was about to get on the subway. I was stopped by the police and brought into a small room that was immediately locked and bolted in to secure privavy for the police. They asked me questions like where I was staying which I answered. They asked me why my visa was not registered and I told them that I was going to register it when they stopped me. It was only my second day in Russia. They started searching me for "drugs and weapons." They came across my wallet, and demanded to search it as well. When you are in a small room with 3 Russian cops with a bad attitude one should not say no. So I allowed them to look through my wallet. They took $200 form me and left me with about 150 rubles. I told them I wanted my money back and they said they never took any from me. I threatened them with calling the consulate and they told me to go right ahead and call them. I knew I was never gonna get my money back. The cops out in Russia are not there to help you. They are criminals on the look out for naive foreigners like us. I wish everyone else out there better luck than I had, but the police are not worth the trouble for me. I can monger other places without that kind of hassle.

OttoGraham

02-09-04, 19:41

Noah,

As one of our most esteemed posters said here a few days ago:

Originally posted by OttoGraham

Also, some of the petty criminals in Russia wear militsia uniforms.

:D

Sorry to read of your experience. The lesson is, don't carry around too much money. And I think that's good advice for going about in just about any country, including your home!

-Uncle Otto

P Chaser

02-09-04, 21:21

Uncle Otto:

So, do you pay the girls with your credit card?

Sorcerer

02-10-04, 02:51

I am looking for a SURE BET way to have some quick fun in Moscow. Those of you who know me my reports on Germany know I am serious about the sport.

I'll be in Germany in May for a couple of weeks. I though I'd take a few days off and try the sport in Russia. I figure I could fly from Frankfurt to Moscow or some other Russian city. I looked though the posts here, found a lot of interesting stuff, but nothing that is spelled out as simple as "A" "B" "C".

So
- What is the best city in Russia to play
- Looking for some inexpensive overnights
- Where is the best place to stay
- How do you do business if you do not speak Russian

Thanks for the info - and check out my post on Germany. It is Karvenal time in a couple of weeks!

Sorcerer

Vegamars

02-10-04, 03:22

The best place to stay is surely Germany and have KARVENAL all throughout the year!!
There's no alphabet of the business,it's so serious that I'll publish a handbook of user's guide???

One O Nine

02-10-04, 05:44

Long time lurker, thought I'd contribute with my own report for a change.

I just came back from Moscow last week. This was my second time there, but really the first time I've had the opportunity to actually explore the city.

After working like a dog for 12-14 hours a day for 7 straight days I've finally gotten a chance to go out last Friday night. I've asked one of my Russian buddies about the spots I've read about here, and he recommended to start with Chesterfield's since it was literally next door to our office. He said the place should be packed by the time we finished working (around 10:30) so I went right in. The place was indeed packed, but I was really disappointed by the quality of women there. Mostly 4s and 5s at best, and mostly the older seen-it-all types who did not seem a bit attractive.

I've hung around for about half an hour and thought of leaving, but then noticed this one girl who didn't look all that bad. Maybe it was just the cheap beers they were selling though. She was no knockout, a 6.5 or so, but definitely more attractive than most other choices: a tall girl with a nice slender body, short brown hair and a nice smile. We've talked for a little while, and she said I could have anything I wanted for a hundred bucks. I didn't feel like taking her to the place I was renting though since I've had lots of expensive stuff laying around in the open. I've asked her if she had a place to go, and she said she knew a room we could rent for 800 rubles. We flagged down a chasnik, and she promised it'd only be a 5 minute ride. However the guy had absolutely no idea where to go, and neither did the girl, so we drove around town for at least a half an hour, stopping to ask for directions multiple times before we finally got to the place.

Finally we got to the apartment, a very sleepy guy opened the door and went right back to sleep on a little couch by the entrance. We went to a rather small room with an old bed, an ancient arm chair and an equally antiquated B&W TV. The girl quickly undressed and got to work. Unfortunately she didn't look all that good naked, and I was a little put off by her unkempt appearance. It must have been at least 2-3 days since she last shaved her cooter, and she was so skinny that from the back she looked like a holocaust victim. She did look good from the front though, and I really liked her small breasts with thick dark nipples. Unfortunately for the girl that wasn't enough, and I tortured her for almost two hours before completion. She really went above and beyond I have to say, and we went through every trick in the book in every position. I think I've made quite an impression on her; I've even surprised myself with some of our kama sutra aerobatics.

Anyway, as I was getting dressed I've realized that I really wanted more, but I was already tired of this girl. So, lo and behold, I walked out, got a car and headed right back to reconnoiter CF one more time.

It was around 2:30 am by that time, and now the place looked much better. Lots more younger attractive girls, much less seasonal pros, and a few real knock outs walking around. I saw one girl who was absolutely incredible sitting by the bar and started walking towards her, and just then some other dude came up to her the second before me. He was blown off very quickly though; she told him she wasn't interested in Russian men. I speak pretty good Russian, but right then I pretended to forget it completely just to be on the safe side, and I only spoke to her in English.

The girl's name was Zheniya, but she wanted to be called Jane. She told me she was Jewish and she certainly looked it. She was about 5'7", with long legs and a perfect ass, long thick black hair, big beautiful eyes, and to top it off a great set of Bs deliciously exposed under an open shirt. She told me she was 20 but I didn't quite believe her; she looked even younger. We talked for a little while; she very quickly told me she was $150 but I easily negotiated it down to $100. I asked her if she had a place to go, she said she knew a very nice place for 1,000 rubles; and then as if one gorgeous girl wasn't enough for me I asked her if she had a friend we could take along. She said I could pick from a few, we walked around the place in a Goodfellas-like fashion, and she introduced me to a couple of different girls. I asked her to take the one she liked the best, so we grabbed along this Spanish-looking girl who I guess was from one of former USSR's southern republics. I didn't really catch her name; she was a 6 or 7 depending on your taste, a rather short and skinny girl with a pretty face. She said she was 25 but might have been a little older. The price for the both girls was going to be $200.

We left the club, flagged down a car, and drove literally half a block down the main street; this cost the same 100 rubles as my previous 30-minute tour of the city. We got to a really huge apartment, where it turned out I had to pay 1,500 rubles and not 1,000 because I had 2 girls and not 1. I didn't much care, gave the money I was asked, and the 40-ish woman who owned the place brought us some clean towels and 3 silk robes. The girls both took quick showers, then the older one waited in the bathroom while I showered - apparently to keep me reassured they weren't going to run away. I haven't paid them anything yet so I wasn't really afraid, but the girl insisted on staying. She just stood there with a distant look on her face though.

When we got back to the room the girls quickly dropped their clothes, rather anticlimactically, and led me directly to the bed. I quickly realized they had a somewhat different idea of what a threesome is, and had no plans or desires to do anything to each other. They coldly kissed each other on the lips when I asked them, but did not seem to enjoy it at all so that was the end of that. I guess I was simply expected to take turns with the girls doing all the work. They started by giving me two separate CBJs, and found my suggestion of doing it together very funny apparently having no idea that such things could seriously be done.

The older girl had a rather professional attitude, while Jane seemed to be much more into it. I fingered her while I was banging the other girl, she was watching us and squeezing her tits, then started kissing me on the mouth very passionately and had a rather strong loud orgasm which I believe was very real by the amount of moisture under my fingers. I can't quite remember the sequence of events, but it was a somewhat frustrating experience because the girls just didn't want to work together, and especially the older girl kept trying to roll over and get some rest when I was inside Jane. Jane however was really wild and she really seemed to enjoy sex. In the hindsight I should have just taken her alone, and avoided the frustration of the second girl. She was more of a distraction than help, even though she did give awesome head.

Anyway, I've tortured these girls for a rather long time as well. By the time we were finished it was early morning already, Jane told me she was hungry and she was really in a mood for sushi. I didn't have the money on me for a tip I wanted to give her, so I took both girls to some 24-hour sushi place which turned out to be half a block away from Red Square. We had a very nice time here, and Jane seemed to really warm up to me. In this informal setting even the older girl seemed to open up and show her human side; she just turned out to be really sad and really tired of her life. Thinking I spoke no Russian they've openly talked about some professional details, and I found out some really interesting things about them and myself. We've finally left the place, I've walked the girls to the metro, took a car down to my place and fell asleep a very happy man.

Wow this ended up being way too long! That's it for tonight - will write about two more threesomes I’ve had later if you guys want.

A general comment though, is that at least in my experience a Russian threesome simply means 2 heterosexual girls taking turns on one guy, and not the type of thing I expected from my college years. Maybe I just wasn't looking in the right places. So if somebody has some recommendations for how to get the real "one-for-all-all-for-one" thing going with two girls in Moscow I'd love to hear it. I am going back in April, and I'm really looking forward to more adventures with the beautiful Russian ladies.

John Quakman

02-10-04, 09:41

I'm coming to Moscow in June or July for my first trip and have been reading about the adventures of you guys. I read one report that listed prostitutki.ru as a website and of course I had to look. My first thought was "this isn't real" I did see some older less attractive women but by and large they were all models. The highest asking for overnite was about 500 some at 150 and most at 200. For the life of me I could not distinguish between the highest and lowest.

So tell me, this ain't for real is it? If it is then Holy sh*&! I'm there.

Dick Travel

02-10-04, 16:45

One O Nine,

Thanks for the nice long report.

It's a shame your threesome was more like two simultaneous two-somes, better luck next time and I hope some of the regular guys can advise.

I wonder, you mention that as the girls didnt know you spoke Russian, that you heard some interesting chat between them along profesional lines. Is it worth adding in another report? I'm sure the readers would be interested in any added knowledge about the "behind the scenes" life of these girls.

Thanks again, looking forward to more.

jealous of all in Moscow as normal !

DT

Stravinsky

02-10-04, 17:31

One O Nine,

7 nights in Moscow and only 1 night for chasing dyevs. Bummer.

Thanks, for the detailed post. Interesting that she did not want to talk to the Russian. I guess that gives us Westerners the advantage.

It would be interesting to know what other info you picked up while the girls were chattering away in Russian.

Thanks,

Stravinsky

One O Nine

02-10-04, 17:47

Dick Travel,

Well it wasn't really anything all that special. I found out that Jane was a real Muscovite, she was a first-year law student at some prestigious university, and lived with her parents. She couldn't stay out so late every night, and her immediate goal was to make enough money to get her own place, and then be able to work at CF more often and make more money.

Jane was apparently just starting out, I was one of her first clients. The older girl has been doing it for a few years so she was telling her about the ins and outs of the business. Apparently out of $100 I was paying each girl they only kept $30, and the rest was going to CF. They've got a pretty well organized thing there, all girls are being kept track of, and the apartments we went to were also a part of the same organization with apartment owners making sure the girls were not cheating the clients and vice versa. Apparently the girls who did not make clients happy could find themselves in trouble just as quickly as the clients who mistreated the girls.

There are apparently a lot of cases of the clients cheating the girls. Since nobody pays up front, they will often run into a guy who does his thing and then ends up not having the money he promised to pay them. But if CF staff saw a girl leave with the client, she's gotta bring them their $70 or whatever, even if it comes out of her own pocket. Apparently Russian guys do this much more often than the Americans.

And then they basically were talking about what clients are better to pick up. One of the two best categories seems to be older fatter guys who usually come very quickly, a girl can have several of these a night and make a hundred bucks or more. The second category is middle-age guys who seem to have plenty of money, and by putting on her charm a girl can hope to make him a regular client and get money and things from him on the side without paying CF anything. Apparently I wasn't in a very desireable category since a younger fitter guy like myself takes a long time to please, and is rarely interested in a prolongued relationship.

So the older girl talked about this for a while, and about her techniques of picking clients with the best earning potential for herself. Jane really seemed to be in a different state of mind though, at least when it came to me. She seemed to genuinely like me and talked about wanting to see me again not just because it could bring her extra money but because she was interested in me. The older girl told Jane that she was too young and silly if she had ideas like that, and that she should learn not to care for these guys and not even try to think of them as human beings. They've had a discussion about that and finally agreed to disagree. I really felt bad for Jane at that time, I knew her illusions would soon dissapear and this sweet young girl would quickly become as jaded as the other one.

That was it I guess. Another interesting thing I picked up is that the drivers, at least the ones who hung around CF, were all associated with some brothels of their own. When they drove us around they tried to recruit the girls for themselves pretty heavily, promising them better pay, better security and internet advertising.

CA Traveler

02-10-04, 18:06

strav... right you are. The world changes for fluent Russki speakers. I'll welcome all of the assistance you can provide. The one thing that you soon learn about Russia is that as much as you think you know... You've only stratched surface.

Noah... Bad luck! I've never heard of that happening, except to some Asian tourists. However, I have heard that Spb has had a long string of problems with both the militia and crooks, which are the same thing many times!

109... nice report. I'm going to print it and read it at my leisure.

AZN Monger

02-10-04, 19:17

CA Traveler,

Why would Asian tourists have more trouble with the cops than other races?

Any explanation for this?

Hedonist

02-10-04, 19:19

CA Traveler:

Actually Russian is not all that hard to learn once you get comfortable with the alphabet. Before my first trip to Moscow I used the Pimsleur Russian I and was able to pick up the phone and make appointments with salon girls. If you are willing to invest more time you can get private lessons or attend one of the many courses at MGU. Even 4 week classes will make a big difference... Once you get the basics you can continue your education with tochka girls if you like...

One O Nine

02-10-04, 19:49

all right, while i have some time on my hands here's my second report since you guys seem to have liked the first.

after my previous night's wild time with the three cf girls i've slept like a log. finally i got up around 4 pm and went looking for some moscow souvenirs. was really my first time in moscow shops, and i saw that everything was incredibly expensive and usually of inferior quality compared to what i can get here. especially the souvenir selection was extremely poor, with barely anything worth a look and never worth its price. my time wasn't completely wasted though since there seemed to be quite a few nice ladies walking around who didn't mind exchanging looks. i struck up a few conversations, and i'm sure i could have walked away with some phone numbers easily if i didn't have to fly away in less than 36 hours.

anyway by around midnight i was ready to go look for some more action. i've figured i was going to go to some place other than cf, but then i changed my mind since i was just a few blocks away. i've decided to go in for a quick peek to see what was going on. the place was not as packed as on friday night, but the quality of girls was the highest i've seen yet. the second i walked in i knew i didn't want to go anyplace else, and i was definitely walking out with somebody from here.

the search didn't take long. right at the entrance stood two inredibly striking girls. one was a 10 if i ever saw one: about 5'9", dark blonde with highlights, perfect model face, perfect legs, beautiful set of boobs. her friend was a very close 9: about the same height, short dark hair, an oriental face - she could easily pass for japanese - and a great little body on her. i didn't even look beyond them. unfortunately i have a horrible memory for names, besides i didn't much care to remember them, so i can't tell you what the girls were named. they've asked for $150 each and would not negotiate. i quickly gave in and we walked out. the 10 spoke very poor english, but the oriental girl spoke very well so she translated for me. i again pretended not to speak a word of russian since first of all there was a possiblity of meeting yesterday's chicks and giving them the surprise of a lifetime, and secondly i really liked the added benefit of hearing the girl's sincere opinions without them knowing it.

anyway, off we went to a place they said they knew. a very short ride in a car, and lo and behold we went into the same buliding where i've been with the other two girls the other night. the appartment owner had a really funny look on her face when she saw me walk in with two more girls. she told my two dates about my adventures last night and how long i had been with the girls, and that gave my girls a really sad desperate look in their eyes.

we went into the room and the 10 immediately said she wanted money upfront. the other girl tried to reason with her but the 10 said she got cheated three times in a row and she didn't like the look on my face, so she wasn't going to take any chances. i didn't quite mind giving her the money and parted with it easily. big mistake.

anyway, we went through the same shower routine as the day before with the oriental girl staying with me in the bathroom. then we went back in the 10 dropped her bathrobe and revealed a really incredible body. the other girl commented on it in russian and said she looked great for her condition, that you couldn't even tell. to my shock i've discovered that the 10 was 4 months pregnant! i don't know how i managed to keep a straight look on my face, but then a few more looks at the girls body convinced me i didn't really care and she was still as gorgeous as could be.

the oriental girl dropped her clothes, and unfortunately turned out to have a pair of really flat saggy titties which absolutely did not match the rest of her body. the girls again quickly talked this over in russian, and i found out that the girl had two children; and she was only 24. she must have been wearing one hell of a push up bra, because when she was dressed her boobs looked really great. oh well.

i took my clothes off, and the 10 commented that i had a very big penis. it kind of surprised me because i really have an average member, and she said it in russian to the other girl which she didn't think i understood. the other girl said something to that effect, like come on, it's not big, it's totally average; and the 10 said i'm sorry, but it's big for me. that plus the pregnancy thing left me with a really strange taste in my moth.

we got to the bed and the 10 started with an excellent cbj while the other girl licked the surrounding area. she knew about her boobs well enough i guess since she tried to position herself to hide them and show her nice cleanly shaved cooter isntead. the oriental girl then got on top of me and turned out to have an incredibly tight pussy, while the other girl sucked my nipples. the two of them overall seemed to work much better together; they didn't interact between themselves at all but at least i didn't have to beg to have them both working on me at the same time.

the 10 was turning out to be incredibly sensitive to the touch though, and she screamed and pushed my hand away with a very displeased look on her face after i squeezed her boob very slightly. i do mean slightly by the way, i just placed my hand on it and felt it ever so softly, and that was enough to set her off. the 10 told the other girl in russian that she became extremely sensitive after she got pregnant, and she couldn't stand being touched at all. the other girl did some creative translating and told me that the girl didn't like being touched because her period was coming up and she had horrible pms. i'm not sure which explanation was better actually.

two seconds later as i placed my hand on the 10's crotch she pushed it away and said she didn't want her pussy touched. i really started to understand while the girls' 3 previous clients did not pay her, and started to regret my own decision to give her money up front. she tried to be helpful though and gave me some kisses and let me suck on her boobs, but about 10 minutes later she coldly commented in russian that she really really hates it when she sucks or fucks a guy for more than 5 minutes and he doesn't come. the situation was beginning to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) me off, but the other girl was really excellent, and she kept me distracted enough with her wonderful tight pussy.

anyway, a few minutes later i've realized that the 10 completely lost any interest in what was going on, and she stopped even trying to do anything. i decided i wasn't going to get anywhere good by arguing with her, so i asked her to go have some rest somewhere out of my sight. i wouldn't care much if she left altogether, but she insisted on staying for some reason, spending the rest of the evening on the couch smoking and watching tv. it pisses me off just to write about it.

after that i've had a very long session with the oriental girl. she didn't do anal, but we did pretty much everything else. the bitchy 10 asked her quite a few times if she's had enough yet, and the oriental girl's answer every time was that she's loving every minute of it, and she can never have enough sex anyway. so off we went and went, i believe she had a few orgasms, and by the time we were finished i was absolutely exhausted and we both were drenched in sweat. just the way i like it. altogether that girl alone was one of the most memorable fucks i've ever had. she was absolutely insatiable, and if i've had anything left in me i'm sure we could have gone for another 4 hours.

she gave me a very nice massage as i lay there resting, and when she was done i was so damn happy i didn't even feel any animosity towards the pregnant girl. i said a very nice goodbye to her, and then i took the oriental girl to the nearby atm and gave her a nice tip. she didn't expect that at all and was very pleased. we said goodbye, and i went to sleep with a huge grin on my face.

i really wish i had not forgotten to bring my camera on the trip with me. i'm sorry i can't post the photos of the girls here, or as much as remember their names. of course the pregnant girl i'd tell everybody to avoid like the plague, and the other girl i'd holeheartedly recommend to all of you. still this was the lesson for me, and from now on i'll discuss all the terms before going anywhere, and make sure the girl understands she only gets paid after the fact. never again am i paying anyone up front.

all right, i'll do the report on my final and best threesome tomorrow i guess, gotta get back to work here.

CA Traveler

02-10-04, 20:39

hed... you said the magic words... "take the time"!

sorcerer... I answered on another thread that you posted with the same question. Let me know if you don't get it.

John... (great name!) Believe it... it is very true.

109... glad you had a great time. However, IMHO I would never ever go somepace that a girl suggests. Simply put, while I have never had a bad experience from a safety point of view, I've heard horror stories of guys going to girls apartments and having unwelcome visitors later. Personally, I'd suggest planning better and hiding your good china and sliver before you head out. Otherwise, you're entering into the unknown every time you get a girl and try to find a short term apartment. At least when you are in your apartment you are somewhat in control of the situation. Especially if you lock the door with a key and hide it!

One O Nine

02-10-04, 21:36

CA Traveler,

Thanks for your concern! I actually wasn't too worried. First of all, as I wrote in the message that hasn't shown up yet, the whole system seems to be pretty well organized, and the club, girls and appartments are all part of one network controlled by the same people. It's in their best interests to keep the security tight and the clients happy. The monitoring is organized very well, it's precise and almost invisible to the naked eye.

Secondly, in my case I have the added benefit of having "krysha" or protection from the people I am working with. I don't want to call them mafia because they are mostly a legitimate business, but they do have some scary security people working for them. The main guy there is a well known and very well connected person. In Moscow everything is divided and at the same time connected, and all the right people know each other. People robbing foreigners in girl's appartments would almost always be a part of a larger organization, and me dropping a couple of names to them would have certainly gotten me an immediate apology. Even in an unlikely case of me being hit by some rogue guys acting on their own, I'm quite confident they would still have heard of my krysha, and in the worst case a phone call to the right people would quickly convince them to get me off the hook.

I would agree with you at least partially, that when picking up a tochka girl or responding to an internet or newspaper ad it's best not to go to a strange place. However, while I don't have nearly as much experience with these things in Russia as you do, I do believe that taking a club girl to a club apartment is as safe as can be.

However as my Russian friends had told me (and they definitely know what they're talking about) taking a girl to your place is also not the safest thing. She might very well be a lookout scoping out potential targets, and as much as a nice watch on your hand and a nice label on the back of your shirt would be an indication to her that this apartment could be a nice place to visit later. I may be totally wrong, but my gut feeling is that armed robberies are much less common in Moscow than apartment robberies.

Across69

02-11-04, 08:14

Strav,
I have stayed at the Rossiya hotel twice. Once in june 2002 and recently in Dec 2003. I stayed the first time in a renovated room on the River(south) side of the hotel for $80 a night. I asked about a massage (real, non sexual) in the billiard hall and was told the heath spa was closed. I went to my room a short while later a had a knock on my door 10 minutes later from a early 30's Ukranian women offering me a "special massage" for $100 for 1 1/2 hours.
I went to the upstairs lobby bar on the west (kremlin) side on both visits and found working girls both times, did not partake though. This last time I found a $88 a night renovated, Kremlin view room online. Ended up staying an extra day and payed ~$73 for a unrenovated east tower room last minute.
The security at Rossiya is strict so unless the girl you take back tells you she knows how to get past them, don't bother with pros or non pros unless you are willing to pay extra and register the women at the lobby like a regular hotel guest. Also, remember getting past security so they can get your money is the woman's problem more than yours. If they can not get past the door you may just say goodnight, go upstairs and they have to find a way back to the bar you found them at. That is why pros at bars always seem to ask what hotel you are staying at (in addition to knowing how much to charge, I am sure).

Novgorod,
Their are 2 Novgorod's in Russia. The first is the 1200 year old one about half way between Moscow and St. Petersburg. I visited this one and stayed at the Berista Palace in early December 2003. There were no Pros in the hotel but I took a taxi to the local hot spot called "Talasman". There seemed to be a few working girls there but I went there with a female friend so I could not get too close to find out. This city only has like 350,000 people so your options are limited. I know nothing about the other "large" Novgorod east of Moscow.

Tatooguy
The Hungry Duck will definately like a guy like you. I could not imagine wearing a coat and tie to this place in a million years.

Finally, my 2 Roubles about speaking the language is that SOMETIMES the less Russian you speak the faster a regular girl has to get you home and get to business because you have less ground for idle chit-chat. This is especially true in suburbs and anywhere outside Moscow and SPG. I have gotten lucky with women in both cities for free a few times when we spoke only a dozen words in common. The more Russian I spoke during my 3 month stay in SPG the more the women seemed to look at me as a potential boyfriend that a one night stand.
Happy Hunting!

Doctor_Skank

02-11-04, 13:22

109:

Thanks for the reports, fascinating to read. Sounds like you are doing very well. Shame about the so-called "10". In my opinion some of the girls most likely to go "cold" are beautiful expensive blondes. They often have the attitude that they are "too good for this business" and should be on some catwalk somehwere or riding in the back of somebody's Mercedes on the way to the First Class Lounge at the airport flying out for their winter getaway to Mauritius.... rather than sucking your cock in some seedy apartment room for $150. Not all blondes by any means, but this is just my observation. Did you even get any penetration on the "10"?? If there was ever a case where you should have gotten at least half of your money back, that was it. Thankfully the Oriental girl made up for it, nothing beats a girl who really loves fucking.

$150? I am not blaming you by any means, as it seems that some of the cutest CF girls are trying to set a new price category for "premium" above the standard $100. I have been given the $150 quote a few times in the last few weeks at CF, the girls being remarkably resilient in their demands. Hope this price hike doesn't stick. Just 4 years ago premium price was $100 and very decent standard fare was $70. I for one will stick to paying $100 as long as possible.

As for safety, I also prefer to be in my own apartment where at least I control who comes in and out of the room. Tochka girls are under very strict organisation and control, IMHO much more so than a club independent.

Dinghy

02-11-04, 15:30

109 - depending on the "souvenir" type you want - if it's the "Russian craft" type (painted lacquer, etc) go out to Izamylova and the Vernasazh craft and flea market. Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun admission 10R - metro Izamylovsky park and follow the crowd (who are probably going to the open air market next door Sat Sun) - Vernasazh sort of resembles an amusement park from the outside. 1/4 or so the prices downtown (or it was last time I was there) and some hi, some lo quality.

yeah, yeah, not mongering info

LuvumBare

02-11-04, 16:34

I spend most of my monger time is Asia but Moscow seems to be in my schedule for March/April. I will probably arrive on a Friday so I can enjoy the weekend before seeing clients on Monday.

My company requires I stay at one of the Marriotts.

What I want to do is find a nice, shaved 3 holer on Friday and keep her for the weekend if we like eachother. I speak zero Russian.

Is it possible to find a tochka girl with some English ability and make a deal with mamasan - the deal is - we go Friday night, if the girls likes me and I like her, she stays until Sunday morning.

If the tochka deal is not possible, what other options exist.

I will be glad to provide a few drinks to any Moscow monger who can help me.

'bare

Stravinsky

02-11-04, 16:53

109 - Thanks for the post. Sounds like the convenient option (CF) is not necessarily the best and what you see is not necessarily what you get.

Interesting to hear about how the club apartments work. Is it safe to say that all the major clubs have these apartments available?

I imagine the "krysha" you have is probably pronounced more like "kruisha", the Russian word for roof. Which would make sense since you are under the protection of your particular organization's "roof".

Across69 - Thanks for the info on the Rossiya. Sounds like, if you want to bring a dyev back to your hotel, better look elsewhere for a place to stay.

General question. Is it standard procedure in Moscow to always pay the dyev after the session?

Thanks,

Stravinsky

One O Nine

02-11-04, 17:06

Dinghy,

Thanks for the advice! I'll check it out on my next trip

Doctor_Skank,

Yeah, it seems that especially on busy weekend nights $150 is the standard asking price. Maybe we need to boycott the place and start some picket lines going to get the word out!

==============================================

Anyway, and to conclude my posting spree, here's the final report. After hooking up with 5 girls in 2 nights, and 2 of them being great, 2 being so-so, and 1 being absolutely horrible, I decided to end my visit on a high note and hook up with two more girls.

As I lived close to CFs, I first walked in there to check the place out. It was right before midnight, and the place was virtually empty. I hung around for a few minutes and did not see a single girl worth my time. Left and went to NF. Same story. Being the smart man that I am I've realized that I forgot to bring the piece of paper on which I've written down the places I've read about here. I remembered the name Cabana, but when I've asked a couple of drivers to take me there they've had no idea what I was talking about.

So back home I went, and on the way there I've decided to check out CF one more time. There seemed to be a bit more people there this time, but definitely more men than women. I sat there with a beer and I saw a real cutie walk in and go towards the pool tables in the back. She looked like a brunette version of Charlize Theron. She sat down, saw me looking at her and gave me a long stare back. However I didn't even have time to get up when some middle-aged gentleman already was talking to her, and then they started playing pool. Damn. I kept watching her for a while hoping maybe that deal wouldn't work out and she'd be free.

Just then I saw another new girl come in and float by towards the dance floor. She was just amazingly ridiculously good looking and I did a double take to make sure I was really seeing such a gem in a seedy bar. She however walked right through the place without looking at anybody, and I assumed she was just meeting somebody in the back. A few minutes later I've realized my mistake. Apparently she just clocked in with somebody there, and when I looked in her direction a minute later she's apparently already made the deal with two Indian gentlemen who had been sitting there chugging beers the whole time. 30 seconds later she was walking out with both of them. Couldn't have been more than 2 minutes from her walking in to her walking out, and I'm not surprised. She was just incredibly good looking, you don't even see girls this striking on half the billboards.

So then a third girl walked in, and I just wasn't going to let yet another one get away. She came up to another cute girl who was sitting at the bar and the two started talking. Just what I was looking for! I wasted no time walking towards them, upsetting some fat dude who was literally a few seconds late. One of the girls was I'd say a 6 or a 7, a nice typically Russian open face with long platinum blond hair, and a nice slim body. The other one had a very unusual face, probably a mix of the northern, southern and asian blood. Her face certainly wasn't the "standard" beautiful face you see everywhere, she had a very interesting exotic thing going on, but for my taste her face was at least an 8. She had short black hair, and as I later found out an absolute killer body with absolutely perfect breasts. She's the only other girl whose name I remember: Katya. You can actually see the first girl's photo made by CA Traveler here:
http://www.wsgforum.com/vforum/attachment.php?postid=166537

I've asked them if they just knew each other from work, or if they were real friends. They told me they've known each other since 7th grade, and were best friends. The girls wanted $100 each, plus $50 for a place to go. Seemed like a good price, so after talking for a few more minutes we walked out and got a car. Apparently we've had a long way to go, and we got the worst driver in the world. It was an absolutely crazy lady in her early 50s who's been lecturing the girls the whole trip. She never drove faster than 50 km/h (30 mph), and got lost several times. Katya was riding the shotgun and appeared to really like talking as well, so the two of them just went on and on and on and on about politics and economy and spiritualism and anything you can think of. Me and the blond girl in the back were laughing about it for a little while, and then sensing that I wasn't very happy she started entertaining me with little kisses which got pretty passionate by the time we finally got to our destination.

As it turned out we actually went to Katya's real apartment where she lived, on the outskirts of Moscow. She had a really small place with cheap furniture, and an empty clothes rack. I guess like most other Russian girls she just had the clothes that she was wearing: one coat, one pair of boots, one pair of nice jeans. They apparently save money the whole year to buy next year's set of winter clothes. Katya said she was hungry and if I would mind if she fixed herself something to eat. I said of course not, she opened her fridge which turned out to have two eggs on a little plate, a cucumber and half a pepper. That was literally it. She was just going to boil the eggs, but I recommended her to chop up the vegetables and make an omelette; even though I've never heard of eggs with fried cucumber. She did just that, but had no milk so instead of an omelet she just got two eggs sunny side up.

Anyway, after that all three of us took turns taking quick showers, and while Katya was in there the blonde took me to the bedroom. The bed had its legs broken off and was supported by piles of old textbooks. The blonde told me that if I break the bed again then I"d have to buy Katya a new one. As soon as I sat down the blonde produced a condom and went straight for the cock giving me a reall excellent CBJ. Katya walked in and things got even better. Since you guys are into abbreviations, I've had CBJ, DATY, DFK, FS with each girl, and during the whole time I've had something on my cock, near my lips, and in each of my hands. The girls teamwork was really excellent, and even though I still didn't get any girl-girl interaction which so turns me on, it was still the best experience by far with all my Russian girls.

When we were finally done I gave the girls a nice tip, and then they saw a few lonely 1,000 ruble notes in my wallet and asked me if I've had anything smaller. I didn't which was an oversight on my part, because I needed to take a car back and the drivers were likely not to have the needed change. The girls were very nice; while they didn't have 1,000 in small bills they just gave me a few hundreds and absolutely would not take the 1,000 I tried to give them. Then they both got dressed, walked me to the road where we were more likely to get a car, flagged one down for me and made sure the driver would take me for the money I've had on me. Throughout the whole experience the girls were extremely nice to me, and I felt really sorry about having to leave Moscow in less than 8 hours.

By the way, here's the tip for the guys like me who like to do more than one girl, and are not satisfied with one or two orgasms a night. Always have plenty of condoms on you. The girls will usually insist on switching condoms when you switch girls, so just getting two CBJs and one FS means you going through 3 condoms already. So always have a plentiful supply of condoms at hand, and when you hear the girl say "oh that's the last condom we have dear", you can go "ta-da" and produce 10 more packs out of your pocket. Makes the girls laugh, although I'm sure they'll be crying on the inside.

CA Traveler

02-11-04, 20:59

d... actually that is good advice. I mean you can screw 24 hours a day... can you? I do have one question though... Is the flea market side of Izmailovo open on Thursday and Friday? It's a great place to pick up things, but I thought they were only open on Sat/Sun.

CA Traveler

02-11-04, 21:03

NEW SUBJECT... I was told by my visa guy today that as of February 1, If yo are own a multiple-entry visa and registering in an apartment, the new rules for registration of a visa requires two pages of paper work to be filled out by your apartment owner AND he must pay some fee for the free services provided residents, something like 100-200 rubles per month.

This new rule doesn't apply if you are staying in a hotel because they register it on the spot.

He also told me that the rules are going to get tougher and will probably require a persona visit to the local militia station so they can see you personally.

With the recent bombings I think we can expect the rules to become tougher for us Xpats spending a lot of time here!

Fenster

02-12-04, 00:12

CT,

That's sad, the landlord I'm dealing with is concerned about furnishing a regular notarized letter, let alone 2 pages and dues. Landlords are under the false impression that if they divulge rentals publically, the taxman will come a knockin, and good luck convincing them such is not the case, ignorant fucks.

As far as you can tell, can one still buy a room at Hotel Rossia or any other for one night, then tip the clerk to register a business visa for the duration of one's visit? Or is this out the window too?

Kapalika

02-12-04, 08:16

Elections:

Cast your votes for the "best clubs of the world".

See current thread in Buenos Aires - 2004 reports section for details.

Kapalika

Zergut

02-12-04, 09:59

Little more info about Moscow:

I just got back from my trip to Moscow, Kiev, and Kharkov. Moscow is different from what I remember 3 months ago. CF girls are more choosie now. I came in on a Saturday and headed straight for CF. The girls there were not exceptional and all wanted $150/night. None would lower the price. I stayed there until 1AM to see if I can find a cutie walking in and to see if any of the girls would lower their price after the metro stopped. No such luck.

I decided to try the line-up across the street. Remembering that it was a bad idea to walk to the line up, I got a car in front of CF and had the driver drove me there. There were only four girls standing around but, I found one that I liked. Paid my $100 and had her in the car. While I was checking the girl out, I noticed that the momma made a phone call while standing behind the car. I did not think anything about this but, when the driver drove me back to my apartment, 5 blocks later, I was stopped by the policite. Now I understand who the momma was calling. The police started to run through the motions of searching the car which seemed to scared the driver. They wanted my passport and then the girl. The girl did not have her passport and the police wanted $400 Rubblies. I was mad and I told them no. They started to take the girl to their car so, I told them $200. They agreed and we drove off.

When I got back to my apartment, I found that the girl was 18 and it was her 5th day working. We were going at it for about 40 min and she started to try to explain something to me in Russian. I told her I don't understand each time and she started to cry and begged me to let her call her mom. I was getting irritated with her service so, I told her ok. It turns out that her mom spoke excellent English. We talked and her mom told me that she is sick with fever. I told her that I paid for her to stay the night and had her talk to her daughter again. After some Russian, the girl, Tanya, was willing to stay the night but, she sobbed the entire time and I could not get any sleep. So, I let her go after an hour of this. I called her mom complaining about her service and was told that she has an older sister and that the sister is much better.

The next day I decided to head back to CF and I found an Asian girl here for $100. She wanted to bring her Asian friend along but, I told her no, since her friend was a dog. She was not al that great in bed and keep complaining that I take to long and that her session are usually over in 30min or less. She told me that she just came to Moscow 3 days ago and that an American slob she met gave her a cell phone. She was trying to ask me for a present and I told her no. She wanted to leave but, wanted me to take her back to CF to meet up with her girlfriend there. I asked her why and she told me that she is afraid of the police stopping her for walking out late alone. I felt bad and walked with her to the street and got her a car back to CF.

The night was still young so, I decided to call Tanya's mom about her older sister. I was told that both of her daughters are at the line up in Prospeck Mira. I was too tired to go there so, I asked her if she know of any other girl that is good. She said that she has a 21 year old friend who is very good and would come over for $150/night. I told her to bring her friend over. When she arrived with her friend, I ended up paying $150 for the girl plus $50 for the roundtrip taxi. I was not happy about the amount but, it was my second day in Moscow and I am still tired from the flight so, I paid. Her friend turned out to be quite good. We did not sleep that night and she left at 8AM the next day and I just crashed and did not get up until 2PM only because I was hungry.
I decided to call up some of the girls I know. Two decided to meet with me after their school is out around 5PM and one wanted to meet me at 4PM. The one I met at 4PM was a 3rd year law student with falming red hairs, Irina. I love redhead because pretty ones are rare. We decided to meet at a local cafee shop on Tverskya. All she wanted to do is to talk and to hit me up for espresso and sweet cake. After two hours of this, she told me that she has a boyfriend and that she does not want money from me. I was late for the other two girls so, I told her to call me if she ever change her mind. I told the other two that I would meet them inside McDonald's on Pushkin square. I got there around 7PM and found one of them to be very cute. They told me that they were hungry so, I got them some food. After this we head back to my apartment. We were just smooching a bit when they told me that they have to get home by 8PM because their parents did not know that they stayed out late. One of the girl was really hot and I was really worked up at this point. I told them that I will call them earlier next time and told them to go. After they left, I got a car and went to prospect mira. When I got there it was passed 9PM and line-up was closed. I told the driver to drive around to see if I can find a street walker. There were a few but, nothing I would want to take home. I went back toward my apartment and found a line-up near the Marriott. I picked a girl for $120 and took her home. Her name was Nastya and was 19. She had nice pure white skin but, would not kiss and was cold as a fish. I tried my best to get into it but could not. So, I just talked to her most of the night. I sent her away at 5AM, packed my bags and got some sleep so that I can wake up in time for my flight to Kiev.

I'll continue about Kiev and Kharkov in the Ukraine section. I'll upload some photo tomorrow of Tanya, Irina and the two girls.

Rus Love

02-12-04, 21:56

Guys,

I'm looking for friends who is interested in videoshooting with Russian girls. It`s my hobby. I'll be glad to find friends with same interests.

[Email address deleted by Admin]

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Hedonist

02-12-04, 22:01

Moscow Times article about the new visa rules:

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/02/12/002.html

Doctor_Skank

02-12-04, 22:27

New visa rules:
What a nightmare. My visa is registered for the next 3 months through an agency, I'll speak to them to see if they can arrange something. As with every new regulation that comes along, Russians will find a way to get around it, it is just a question of what you pay. Hedonist's article suggests this is going to get complicated however. Thanks Hedonist for posting it. In any case, registration or not, I'll be avoiding the militia like the plague.

109:
Great post again,it was a real pleasure to read about your adventures. I personally have enjoyed most of my trips to "real" Russian apartments in the suburbs. Puts everything in perspective for those who think that, based upon the relatively European center of Moscow, that Moscow is a normal European city and up to European standards economically. It ain't. Liked your comment about the girl having one set of "good" clothes... every notice how if you know some "normal" girls that they are always wearing the same thing? That's our market folks. Those two girls sounded great. If you want to find Cabana BTW, it is in the same building as the Baltschug Kempinski Hotel.

zergut:
Thanks for posting, even though you had some bad luck with moody hos.... and overpaid. Sorry, but $50 for round trip taxi is insane. Looking forward to your posts on the Ukraine, hope things go better for you there...some of the best pro Russian women I've had were actually Ukrainian...so I'm sure you'll do just fine...

Strav:
Forget bringing a girl back to Rossia Hotel. The security there by the elevators..usually at least 2 guys... stops everybody. You couldn't get your grandmother to your room without hotel registration, let alone a sexy dyev.

CF prices:
Has everybody been experiencing this $50 price hike? Due to poor selection and circumstance it has been a while since I've paid at CF and the last girl I spoke to insisted on $150 as well. The $150 price tag, if it sticks, will be a reason for me to stop going to CF... merely out of some ridiculous principal I have. Anybody talked to the management about this? I don't know their influence on prices, but if the crowds start thinning, they'll correct the situation I am sure. I'll be in Moscow next week and will check it out for myself and see what I can get for $100... and not a kopeck more. If the prices really do go up, other options such as the internet will become much more attractive. I was looking at the mail.love.ru site today and saw some very decent looking girls for $70 for 2 hours or $120 a night.

Zergut

02-12-04, 22:58

Moscow pictures.

As promised. Here are some pictures of the girls during my trip to Moscow. Tanya, the one who keep calling her mom.

Zergut

02-12-04, 22:59

Asian girl from CF.

Zergut

02-12-04, 23:00

Girlfriend of Tanya's mom.

Zergut

02-12-04, 23:01

Two girls I met in McDonald's near Pushkin Square.

Tattooed Guy

02-13-04, 19:28

Hi all,

Reading about the new rules of visa, a last-minute booking to Moscow is deffinatly a NO.

I had my personal invitation last week, when I wanted to get my visa, (5hours driving by car oneway to the Russian Embassy from where I live) I phoned to check if I had all the documents before I drove off. The girl said I needed my flight tickets and insurance, and it will take from 7 to 30 days for the visa to be ready. Now my invitation papers are from 15-02 till 15-03. On the question 'How can I book my tickets if I don't know when I'm going to get my visa, as I want to go ASAP?' She could not answer. She said that I could get an urgent visa in 3 days, but on the price of 200€ as normal visa would be 50€. My friend who invited me allready paid 40 $ for the invitation and there they said it wouldn't be a problem to get it quick as they knew it was between 15-02 and 15-03 I wanted to go.

So I started counting, going with the train, 4.5 hours oneway is 44€, so bringing in my papers and picking up the visa, is 18 hours on the train and cost me 176€ + 200€ for urgent visa. I don't know about your experiences guys, but that was above my expectations and silly!

So booked yesterday flights to BKK for 12 days for that money, I can enter LOS for 30 days without problems as I'm Belgian from nationality, and will be heading to Pattaya instead.

I might go to Moscow after the summerseason but better start planning it now the way it goes.

So if you want to know if a tattooed guy can pull in Pattaya aswell you gonna have to check the Pattaya section, thanks to the ones who answered my questions anyway.

Take care

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CA Traveler

02-14-04, 08:29

tg... you are certainly correct that Russia is not a spur of the moment place to visit. Next time, you might consider an overnight delivery service such as FedEx or DHL to send and retrieve your visa/passport to and from the RU Embassy. It is cheaper and takes less time.

For example, for me last year I paid $150 for a multiple entry visa invitiation valid for one-year. I carried the visa invitation out with me and FedEx'd the invitation and my passport to and from the SF Consulate, for about $15 each way. Then, I paid the consulate $100 for a 7 day turn around. It took me a total of about 4 weeks from start to finish.

A pain in the ass for sure, but it helps keep out the competition! :)

Next time, PM me and I'll give you my visa guy's number, he'll issue the invitation letter for you in one-day for $25. He'll then register it for you when you return for $40. Expensive but not for the the end result!

Snowy

02-15-04, 14:53

Apologies if this has been covered before, but I couldn't find an answer elsewhere on the forum.

As I understand it, tochkas exist more for the locals than for the tourists - is this true?

If it is true, does anyone know if they are just unique to Moscow? I've been to SPB quite a few times and Kiev and I've never seen or heard of a tochka scene in either city. They don't appear to be mentioned at all in the forums for these cities.

Do tochkas exist in other cities? If not, does anyone know why? Not an important question in the grand scheme of things, just one that's been bugging me!

Oetziboy

02-15-04, 18:27

Snowy
I was few years (5-6) ago in Alma-Ata, my customer insisted offering girls, he stopped in the middle of nowhere within in the citycenter, after few seconds some 30/35 girls show up, (my buddy and me) selected 2 of them, shedid not speak about Tochka butsomething like mama, and mention that out of dela she would receive USD 4.- so (at least in Kazakhstan) they exist. I believe safty (in this regard) shall not be compared with Moscow, I would never go to pick up a girl by myself (or with a taxi driver) in Alama Ata, all the matter was a real adventure (not the best indeed)

Stravinsky

02-15-04, 20:55

Speaking of Russian visas....

Does anyone know... if you buy real estate in Moscow, say an apartment, do you still have to go through all this visa silliness when you want to visit? Do they wave the visa requirements? Do they issue you a permanent visa? Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Stravinsky

SexyMiky

02-15-04, 22:00

Hello Snowy,

Tochkas do exist in SPB , I was in SPB twice once in April and another time in August, You can find them near the Main train station I forgot the street name but it is parallel to Nevsky prospect, I had a choice of 5 girls they charge $50 for the hour and $70 for two hours, the quality of the girls are not as good as Moscow, i had a better time at the Peter hotel Sauna :)

Roger Mellie

02-15-04, 22:18

Stravinsky:

No you get no breaks even if you own an apartment in Moscow. You still have to get visas ... and you still have to queue for them.

Late Night

02-16-04, 07:31

Dear Dr. Skank,

You said <<I'll do more research and conduct a field test. I'll post the results in a couple of weeks...>>

I'm interested to know how your research is going along.

Thanks in advance!

Doctor_Skank

02-16-04, 08:30

Late night:

Gladly will conduct a field test, I arrive in Moscow tomorrow. But what was I talking about? I can't remember. Maybe you can remind me? Thanks!

CA Traveler

02-16-04, 10:45

doc... I think the reference was to a lineup near Pushkin Square. Hope to see you this week... call me.

strav... rm answered your question as it was asked, IF you own an apartmnt. true it is handled the same way, but if you own the apartment you have an IN with the owner so it makes it a little easier and the tax consequences are not a problem.

However, I think the followup to the question is IF you live full time in Moscow is your visa handled differently? Yes, if you live and work in Moscow your visa must now be issued as a work permit and not a multi-entry visa as in the past, it is actually more restrictive because you must apply for a permit to leave! I'm not sure of all of the details, but it's not really something that I want because I'm not going to be in a position to have to apply 45 days in advance for an exit visa.

If you have an interest, I strongly suggest that you read the article that hedonist posted a few days ago...

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/02/12/002.html

CA Traveler

02-16-04, 10:47

snowy... I'm pretty sure that tochkas do not exist in Spb. However, I've been told that there are a few in Kiev, but I don't know from personal experience. I think the large numbers of lineups and quantity of girls only exists in Moscow.

Doctor_Skank

02-16-04, 11:24

Ca_T:

Will contact you tomorrow, keeping CF, tochka or Cabana in mind.

Snowy:

I have never seen a tochka in St.Pete and my attempts to figure that part of the scene out in St.Pete have proven fruitless. Apparently (based on WSG reports) there IS a street scene there, around the Moskovsky train station and I am certain at other places as well, such as on the highways. Nonetheless, this scene is seemingly inaccessible to the monger and really reserved for locals or those who have the time and inclination to pursue this venue. For us, a waste of time and effort and I doubt the quality of girl in this scene is worth consideration anyway. If you are looking for an alternative to the pickup bars try salons or the internet, as detailed in the St.Pete section.

The Moscow tochkas are not just for locals, they are really quite practical for tourists as well, as proven by the countless reports form numerous mongers here.

CA Traveler

02-16-04, 11:51

doc... I've got date with a guaranteed overnight scheduled for tomorrow night... Are you planning a night out with either M or K? I'd be up for a a pass at a club with my girl, but I don't want to spend the entire night on the dance floor when she's ready to hit the sack at 2200!

I'm keeping Wednesday open but it definitely have to have an early night since I have to leave my apartment at 0500 on Thursday.

Doctor_Skank

02-16-04, 12:28

Ca_T:

We'll have to touch base tomorrow by phone, as I don't yet know my exact plans. If you've got a sure thing Tues, that should take priority and I'll try to schedule M in for my Tues night. I'll give K Thurs and try to hold Wed open.

I'll also need to call it an evening early on Tue and Wed due to work. In any case, it'll be fly-by-wire and we'll touch base Tues night around 10 pm.

Stravinsky

02-16-04, 16:55

RM and CAT,

Thanks for the info.

Zergut

02-16-04, 22:20

Tochkas in Moscow vs Kiev:

I just wanted to put in my 2 cents since i have been to Moscow, Kiev and Kharkov concerning Tochka. The line-up in Moscow is really unique to Moscow. There is no such thing anywhere else that I can find.

In Kiev there smaller tochkas. What you see are about the same thing. One girl standing in the open near the road or near a grocery stand while the momma and most of the other girls would be in cars nearby. You wuld drive up to the girl and she would tell you how much. If you don't like her, you ask if there are more girls. The mamaniska would come over to you if ther are more girls. If not, she is working directly as a street walker. This is the same in all of the other cities. The biggest group I found where about 5 girls and I think that they were just friends from school who are out for some quick cash.

It is hard at times find these girls yourselves. Many of the taxi drivers just pretend to not understand what you want. 'Yah hachu dyvuska' would just produced a blank look from many of the drivers. I found that the majority of the girls in Kiev and in Kharkov are working through an agency. Very few would post on the Internet. There are many postings in the classified of the loca paper but, I was told by a friend of mine not to call. Many of the numbers are switch and bait or they are posted by special task force.

Zergut

Labadi

02-16-04, 22:22

back from moscow with conflicting feelings: i got warm with this pulsating city even at temperatures around -15 ° celsius on sunny days anc in chilly nights. this city offers a variety, which i could only foresee in these 2 days. i will come back soon.

after a long day, i didn't want to wait a long time till midnight to go to CF, so i decided to find any line-up. i asked a taxi-driver waiting in front of the hotel, he told me 1000 rubels for finding a girl. same price with the other taxis. so i walked a bit and found a gipsy-taxi which offered to bring me to one, two or three places for 600 rubels. i (or better my best friend :)) agreed, so off we went. he was the worts taxi driver i ever experieced. it took us 1 hour to find the right place smag in the middle of the town in front of the state history museum. i was offered 4 girls and choose a tatarian girl for 120 $. i got a bit nervous, since the taxi driver for the first time used his mobile, so i said, we'll change the taxis. it was my mistake, that he convinced me to stay with him; no, the militia didn't stop us, but again, it took ages until we reached the hotel. since he made a big noice, it ended that i paid him 1000 rubels. i wasn't able, to tell him the truth in hin language. and i did not want to get any problems with other taxis drivers in the cold russian night.

NATACHA was a quite nice girl, and very funny in the beginning. we twice had good sex experience, she was passionate - and she smoked avery 10 minutes. crazy. after that, i needed something to eat (next, but my last, bad experience with a taxi driver, who didn't want to find the YOLKI POLKI), so we had a nice dinner with some beer.

coming back to the hotel, speaking about this and that (her english was quite good), laughing, she suddenly refused to give me a BJ without condom. there was no room for discussion, she insited, so i threw her out of my room.

Next day i changed my mind and called a number, i had found in the internet: http://www.vipdosug.msk.ru/individ.php. many nice girls on that site. i phoned ANJA, 18 years, very friendly and funny with a nice bodys, quite big and firm breast. we had a god time, i paid 100 $ for 2 hours (one night would have been 150 $, anal additional 50 $). Again, we had a good conversation in english, so i was happy i choose her. but, only CBJ !! i can recommend her, but today i didn't find the picture and number form ANJA on the homepage.

some remarks to my hotel UKRAINA. nice building, historical, special atmosphere. the room was clean, old-fashioned (i like it), 2 beds inside, 90 cm width and a bad matress (the reason, i stopped sexual action after 2 hours :)). security at the entrance didn't ask at all while entering with ANJA and NATACHA (first time), but wanted to see the papers of NATACHA after returning from dinner. so actually no problem. UKRAINA is a bit far outside, but only 10 min to metro kievskaya and a 40 min walk to tverskaya. since i like to walk, no problem for me.

for my opinion, nice, but mostly average experience with the girls, but i had only 2 of them (not the right choice?). certainly i will come back to moscow - i like the city. but i will prefer african ladies by far for the rest.

suum cuique

Oagre

02-17-04, 03:05

Rookie seeks "Guide to Moscow".

I'm an experienced North American hobbyist who's thinking about hitting EE this spring for sexual and general tourism. Is there are general overview of the Moscow scene that I could look at to get a sense of prices, quality, etc?

Also a list of websites would be good too.

Labadi, what's the standard menu for the girls on the website you quoted? Are the photos accurate and genuine?

T I A!

CA Traveler

02-17-04, 11:01

oag... no offense intended but your question is almost like... "Describe the meaning of life"... the information you're asking for as a "Guide to Moscow" is all on this website.... I suggest that you do your homework and then you'll find many people more than willing to answer specific questions to help you out.

Explorer8939

02-17-04, 15:24

A not too informative synopsis of my recent business trip to Moscow: my actual work got extended so that I really only had an afternoon to get in my mongering. Unfortunately, about 10 girls off the web were unavailable at that precise moment, so I was out of luck. After 10 unsuccessful calls, I figured it was not to be.

Hedonist

02-17-04, 19:22

Guys,

This is off the topic, but whom else can I ask such a question :) When I call or send SMS to my significant other in the US on her cell phone when my cell phone is roaming, let's say in Russia or any other foreign country for that matter, can the other party understand where I'm calling from? Does anybody knows whether or not my usual US number will appear on her cell? Since my call will be handled by the local mobile company I'm afraid that the code of the country I'm calling from might be appended to my US number or some random number hinting that I'm calling from Russia might show up on her display... Any info on this "important matter" is appreciated...

Vegamars

02-17-04, 20:30

Same as Ukraine as it is in Russia.Wherever you send an SMS your complete number will appear on the other side.
On the contrary if you call from US or within Russia your number will be appearing on the other side 90% of the time due to the weird communication lines(You might recognize this from how difficult it is to talk on regular phones into Russia) unless a special operation has been exerted on your mobile no in the US.
In short never ever send SMS unless you wanna to disclose where you are and never ever call from your mobile if you're number is a special one.

OttoGraham

02-17-04, 22:23

To the best of my knowledge, my Nextel phone shows my domestic U.S. number as the source, even when I am calling from traveling abroad.

I use a Motorola i2000 phone with "Nextel Worldwide Service" as the company of choice. U.S. callers need only call my normal phone number to be able to reach me wherever I am, worldwide. I've used this phone in the UK, Russia, Hungary, Spain, Italy, Belgium, and Argentina.

I hope this information helps.

-Uncle Otto

Kali Banc

02-17-04, 22:30

Otto,

You're a brave man! Isn't it illegal to bring a cell phone into Russia from abroad?

Fck Dick

02-17-04, 22:59

Does anyone here know about any hotels in Moscow center which provide their girls as room service ? If so, how much they charge for room and girls?

I think this avoids all problems related to LE and hotel management.

Thanks in advance

Hedonist

02-17-04, 23:24

Thanks a lot guys!

If what Otto is saying is correct than there are no problems. I can use my US cell phone in Russia and keep sending SMS's or make phone calls without worrying about disclosing where I am.

Vegamars: I didn't really understand what you meant. I have sent SMS's from Moscow using a Bee-Line # and in that case my Bee-Line # was showing up as the source. That's OK! I wonder what would happen if I sent an SMS roaming with my US cell phone in Moscow...

Late Night

02-18-04, 00:06

Doctor,

The test was training yourself to increase your load reserves by taking zinc, ect..

Thanks again!

Oagre

02-18-04, 00:50

I appreciate your point, CA Trav. At the same time, there are 81 pages of posts on Moscow - many of them quite off-topic. But I'll focus in.

1. Are the photos on the girl websites usually accurate or bait and switch?

2. Is there a list of those websites somewhere?

3. What is the "standard" service in Russia? Does it include dfk, bbbj and daty? Or is there no standard at all?

Again thanks for any help.

CA Traveler

02-18-04, 10:02

hedonist... I think Otto is correct that the original number on the SIM will show up in the SMS. As a test, I suggest you find a monger in the USA and send them an SMS and see what happens. The results may be interesting to alot of folks. When I get an SMS in Russia from a friend in Germany, his number in Germany shows on my phone.

kb... I think someplace there is probably a law on the books that probably dates back to the USSR that makes it illegal to import an "communication device". However in the real world today there is not problem. You don't even have to declare them if yo don't want. In fact, as I went through customs two weeks ago, I was on my phone at the time! If they started enforcing a law like this, they would have to put everyone on the airplane in the Gulag.

1398... I imagine that the rule in every hotel in Moscow is "If you've got the money, they've got the time"! However, why pay 3 or 5 times more than is necessary and be limited to their room service menu when there is an all-U-can eat buffet out there for you.

oag... 81 pages... No one ever said it would be easy! :)
1. depends. I've had ringers and I've had the same girls. Most people report they are accurate
2. yes, most, mixed in those 81 pages
3. depends, tochkas usually includes all, club girls, it's up to them.

My Alias

02-18-04, 12:54

Mongers, I saw this story http://www.adn.com/24hour/healthscience/story/1150433p-8015703c.html and wanted to remind you guys to be careful. Wrap that rascal.

Vegamars

02-18-04, 13:32

Of course I'm talking about your US phone that you use in Russia.
It's out of experience that an SMS always shows its source and a phone call is almost as dangerous,though I've never considered it so.Let me remind you that the telecommunication system in Russia is the weirdest in the world.

Epicurus

02-18-04, 16:10

Regarding the SMSs. THe number that is displayed is always the number of your SIM.

When I call or send an SMS from Russia to people in Holland, they always only see my number and the SMS central that dispatches the SMSs is the one in Holland. THe same with numbers from Italy.

And it's quite logical when you think about it. Cause how else would they be able to charge you? THat is why it is not advisable to use your US number to call somebody in Russia on their US number. SInce then you will call the Russian provider first who redirects you to your US one and charges your US provider for that and then your US provider tries to connect with the other US number by contacting the US provider of that number and charges you for that as well and then that other US provider redirects it back to the Russian provider and the Russian provider charges then charges the US provider for that.

And like CAT said, I too had no problems with bringing my phone into Russia. And I disagree with Venga, the US mobile phone system is the weirdest :) Unlike the rest of the world, the US providers somehow charges both the caller and the called for the call, instead of only the caller, even when the called is in its domestic region. THe sound quality was good. In fact the only problems I had with my mobile phone was when I was visiting the US, Illinois and Wisconsin... coverage and soundquality was pretty dire at times. Anyway, you only have to make sure that your phone and US provider is able to handle (E)GSM triband operations.

Stravinsky

02-18-04, 17:09

I used my T-mobile phone in Moscow last summer. If you are planning on travelling in Europe, particularly eastern Europe, T-Mobile is a good option. Because it is a European company, it IS your local phone provider in Europe. I think the connection in Moscow was actually better than here in the U.S.

I have received SMS messages here in the U.S. that originated in the Ukraine and Moscow and the originating address is just the local phone number. There was no way to tell the geographic location of the sender. But they came from another T-Mobile phone, so they were all within the same network.

If you try to send SMS messages across networks, that may not be the case.

Stravinsky

Big Bro AJ

02-18-04, 17:26

The problem about the cell phones is the system. US uses different coding system, Europe uses another. But the latest phones have both systems therefore, you can use your cell every where, but don't forget the roaming. When you use your US phone in Moscow, it's gone cost you more.

Good hunting all,

AJ

P Chaser

02-18-04, 23:04

Lets close this subject.

1. The caller id transmitted by a cellular phone to a phone call receiver or an SMS receiver can not be altered by the location of the phone. This is part of the roaming infrastructure. You will allways have the same caller id displayed on the receipient's phone. + Your real Country code (Your real Area Code) 555 1234 The only exception is if you are dialing the same area code while within the same area, then you may/may not have the country code inlcuded in the caller-id. Needless to say, to be able to dial someone without your do that you need to be where you live anyway.

2. It is not possible for a network to assign a local country code and area code to main number, and display that as caller id on the receipient's phone. The network protocols specifically don't allow that. It would create chaos. The caller id is transmitted as a return path. Imagine what would happen if the network added local country and area code: it is very likely that 555 1234 exists in the roamed network as well. So how would the network know which number is being called.

Don't be paranoid.

Zergut

02-19-04, 02:53

Has anyone actually been through the new registration process? Anyone noticed if there is an increase in apartment cost because of the added work the manager has to go through for regitration?

I want to make sure that I am prepare for my next trip to Russia.

Is this new rule true for all of Russia or only Moscow?

TIA

Mohctep

02-19-04, 18:33

On a subject of Phones.
If you have GSM international phone: GSM 900/1800
All you have to do is: When in Russia, buy SIM card for 5-6 dollars.They sold in most Cell stores. Replace SIM card inside your phone.
Done.
Now you have local Russian phone number and you can refill your available minutes by buying calling cards of different value 10-15-30 dollars etc.
Calling cards availbale in any kiosk on a streets. You have to use them only once to refill your account with minutes.

If you dont want your number to show up on your wife cell phone send her messages through Internet,not through your phone.

OttoGraham

02-19-04, 18:43

Originally posted by Mohtep

If you dont want your number to show up on your wife cell phone send her messages through Internet,not through your phone.

One point - if you are in Russia and don't want your wife/girlfriend to know about it, I would not recommend sending a normal email. If she has any web savvy at all, she can review the header on the email and might discover the source IP is from Russia.

-Uncle Otto

Mohctep

02-19-04, 19:23

I was not talking about e-mail, Otto.
I am talking about SMS :web page to phone .
ICQ, MSN messenger, AAOL messenger, Yahoo messenger.
Any phone company offers free SMS messaging from their web site to the cell phone. Free up to 150 characters usual deal.

If you have been paying roaming charges while using your US phone in Russia I just saved you a bunch of money.

Vegamars

02-19-04, 21:13

To end up the confusion I have a better idea,you can use your Russian card in the US.

OttoGraham

02-19-04, 23:11

Thanks for the tip, Monster! :D

-Uncle Otto

Hedonist

02-20-04, 06:06

Guys,

Thanks very much for the tips.

Mochter:
Last time in Moscow I couldn't buy a SIM card because my visa was expiring soon. They have some restrictions on this. I had a GF of mine buy it for me... But the whole point is that I don't want my American GF know that I'm enjoying myself in Moscow, that was the whole point. So calling her with a Russian SIM would be harakiri :)

I feel bad about pushing the thread off its topic. Let's get back where we were...

CA Traveler

02-20-04, 12:35

OK, just to add a little more confusion to this... I am with MTS in Russia. However, unless you meet certain criteria, including some billing issues and length and type of your visa, you will not be able to set up your phone for International roaming. This is because of a Russian law to help combat terrorism. Just like you will not be able to get a SIM card in RU unless you have your passport and visa with you(unless you take the approach of Hedonist). I don't know all of the rules, but I went the easy way with my SIM card/MTS plan and it doesn't provide International roaming.

In addition, I purposely changed my USA cell phone to one that uses GSM technology so that I could switch SIM cards as I travel around the world. When you call, SMS, or MMS within or out of your home country, the telephone number on the SIM card in your phone will show up on the other end. That number, SIM card in the phone, will show up on the other end.

BTW... GSM reception in the USA generally sucks compared to the old standard. It may be OK in major population centers, but it is terrible elsewhere. Maybe this deal with Cinqular and ATTW will help to more the technology forward in the USA.

z... apartment prices are going up because of the drop in the dollar. Many apartment sources will not register your visa anyway. You'll have to go to one of the visa sources who will go to a hotel or someplace and get it registered for you.

sentry20124

02-21-04, 01:31

In preparation for my upcoming trip to Moscow, I decided to try and establish some relationships via email/icq, hoping to make some "friends" before I arrive. Needless to say, after a few weeks of effort I am about to give up and just take it as it comes when I get there.

I decided to use both dating.ru and omen.ru. Now my Russian is fairly good so communication isn't a problem. So out of the 20 that I started an icq chat with and the 2 (2 replied out of 10 emailed) that I started an email exchange with - I am now down to 2 on icq and 0 on email. It's alot of effort for such results. (Well actually one of the two on ICQ I really like and vice versa, but unfortunately she is in the Ukraine)

Here are some of the problems with going this route .

1. Time difference. I am -8 hours from Moscow time. Since almost none of these women have internet access at home finding overlapping times to chat is difficult.

2. Since the women are chatting at work they either can't fully participate in the chat or the chat sometimes ends abruptly as they have to go back to work when a co-worker approaches them.

3. As with any "virtual" relationship what is advertised and what is reality can differ alot. After a second round exchange of photos with one dyev it looks like she aged 20 years from the posted photo.

Email is just tough to get a relationship going. One nice enough dyev (but later the bait and switch photo routine) and I exchanged 7 or 8 emails. Even though I kept trying to get her to warm up - she stayed cold as ice - never once switching over to the "ty" form and kept addressing me using "vy". Nah, it wasn't my lack of charm - some things just need a blow torch to get heated.

Doctor_Skank

02-21-04, 19:19

CF update:

Based on several reports here of a price increase at CF or rather the emergence of a separate $150 price category at CF I decided to investigate. This price increase had been attempted in the past by the girls and succeeded as the $70 price category disappeared, but the $150 category never really solidified, which I hope it doesn't. Conducting my investigation last Wednesday however, I discovered the following after "interviewing" a few girls.

* Most "hot" girls in the 6-8 range will ask $150-200 and will not dip below $150 on busy days until the wee hours of the morning when there are few customers left. Almost always, the hot chicks will find work for $150. Many of the hotter chicks won't even come to CF on traditionally slow days.

* Girls in the 4-7 range will go for $100.

* EVERY girl I spoke to mentioned a new scam 500 rubel "security charge" that they have to pay the bouncers/security. It is expected that the customer will pay this charge as well. That is about $17. I am not sure if this is sanctioned by the club or if they even know about it, but since all the girls mentioned it, I assume it is a real charge collected by the bouncers as a cover charge for the girls. Anybody else experience this?

All in all these are both negative developments, nor was I impressed by the quality of women I saw there last Wednesday except for 2 or 3 hotties who all wanted $150, which I am sure they ended up getting as well.

The $150 category may be unavoidable, as we WSG members are too few to dictate the prices and Moscow tourists on their first and often only trip to Moscow will regretfully pay just about any price the girls demand. I do hope however that the prospect of earning $150 will attract prettier girls to ply their trade there.

Doctor_Skank

02-21-04, 22:04

Tochka blues:

About 1 am Thursday morning I was looking to get laid and thought it a good idea to check out Hard Rock cafe and hope for some single women to woo. Asked the girl working the door if there was any action upstairs and she said it was pretty full and I paid the 150 rubels cover charge. Walked upstairs and saw exactly 2 non-descript girls dancing and a couple sitting around with their boyfriends and or friends. Walked downstairs and confronted the girl at the door and told her she lied, it was empty upstairs. She apologized with a somewhat shocked look on her face and gave me a refund of the 150 rubels cover. I usually am not nit-picking about something like that, but in a town like Moscow where you are getting ripped off right and left by overpriced everything I definitely wasn't going to throw money out the window... at least not money that could be spent on hos. :)

So I grabbed a taxi and we arranged for 300 rubels for a tochka tour.

Tochka one on Mira Prospekt. 3 girls, all homely.

Tochka two on Sukharevskya. 5 girls, all homely.

Things were looking very picked over, I was worried about opportunities. I didn't want to go to CF again and see the girls I had chatted with the night before and didn't want to seek a freebie as I didnt feel like wasting 3 hours chatting somebody up with no guarantee of success when I could buy a sex toy for $100.

Tochka three near CF (but not your favorite one Ca_T, another one) : 20girls, 18 homely, 2 passable.

I chose a curly-haired petite and lithe girl, her black hair giving her a Black Sea look, but in fact she was from Belogorod. About a 5 or 6 in the face but a petite body, which is what I was in the mood for after my voloptuous girlfriend from 2 nights previous.

Paid 80 Euros + 200 rubels, which I calculated to be about $100. The mamachka counted and converted the currency out loud, consulting another girl about the exchange rate dollar=euro=ruble. Like a G-7 summit.

I had seen a lot of militia patrolling the neighborhood and my taxi driver was Georgian, so I was worried about the militia and their "your chick's not regisitered" scam. We drove and got on the ring road. Looking good, no militia. Even as I sighed an audible relief, a car pulled along side us, it's lights flashing and the microphone blaring for our car to stop. I muttered "atlichna.." sarcastically and started fumbling around for my passport. I was interviewed and I half-heartedly muttered answers to the routine series of questions the young miltia policemen asked, knowing that nothing would happen anyway until his sergeant came to collect the bribe or approve the registration. My registration was ok, we chatted cordially. The girl was hauled in the car. I sat in taxi again and I told the taxi driver to offer 500 rubels. He walked to the blue and white Lada behind us. There were 4 cops and the girl in there, like a circus car where another clown keeps piling out. The cops countered with 1000. The driver came back. I offered "600 last offer". The flashing lights were turned off and they released her into my custody. I really wonder how often the mamachkas purposely send the cops a new sucker?

I asked Alla the 26-year old mother of one (have I heard this story before?) how often she was stopped. About once a month. not more. She had been working 8 months which in tochka girl time is about 8 years.

She was kind of used up, disspirited. I was in a bad mood because of the militia and her relative average looks.

We got out, I bought 3 beers and some apple juice. In the ten minute walk to my apartment the beers and juice froze. It was -21 degrees outside.

I turned on a desperate charm offensive as we arrived close to my apartment in an effort to hopefully save the evening.

We talked for an hour and watched MTV. I needed to get back in the mood. I did. We went to the room and after getting her into the mood she transformed for plastic blow up doll to sex dynamo and got really into it. One of my better p4p sex romps in a long time. We both got into it. It wasn't GFE at all, just really good physical animalistic sex. I really wouldn't have expected it, she seemed pretty used up and cold, but in the end she was kissing passionately and moaning.

You never know.

Doctor_Skank

02-21-04, 22:15

Here she is again.

Her face. 26. From Belogorod, near the Ukrainian border, but "STILL RUSSIAN!" she said accusingly. One daughter.

Asked for a "preservativ". I said "nyet". She started sucking.

Total damage:
80 Euros
200 rubels
400 rubels taxi
600 rubels bribe
60 rubels 3 Stary Milnik beers
20 rubels 1 apple juice
=
$133

Sorry about the lack of nude pics with her, I honestly forgot until morning and then I only felt like a documentary cameraman capturing a morning in the life of a tochka dyev. Her favorite song is "Unforgiven" by Metallica by the way.

Late Night

02-21-04, 22:25

Dr. Skank,

Can you also please update us on your diet to increase load reserves. Did it actually work by taking Zinc, ect..?

TIA

Doctor_Skank

02-21-04, 22:32

Late night:

I haven't really adjusted my diet. I take zinc but haven't noticed anything different. There are supposedly products on the market that do increase load.

The only thing I found that works is caviar. I eat a ton of it when in Russia and I swear it increases load. As it is mostly protein, I think protein must increase load.

So raw egg whites?

Other than that I regret to report anything significantly load altering other than the slavic female. :)

Big Bro AJ

02-21-04, 22:44

Ginseng has no side effects. If you go to a GNC store, you can easly get 500mg Gold ginseng or Triple Ginseng. After a long night(dinner and lots of drinks), it always help me to give pleasure to my girl friends. I take one in the morning and two rest of the day. Later that night it's gone be a rocket.:)) It's more natural than other chemicals.

Doctor_Skank

02-21-04, 22:56

Here's the Siberian CF selection. $150 + 500 rubels. The most I`ve paid at CF by far.

I know I hypocritically violated my own call to maintain the $100 prices.

I felt I had no choice. :)

Seriously, there was not much available at all, and that which was cost $150 + 500 rubels. I bargained down from $200 to get that. I fought, it wasn't possible.

Still that's $167 and very discouraging price-wise... I might as well pay $200 at NF. That is also seriously pushing the envelope on what I think is worth paying for. $150-$200 is at least 3 very good dates or nights out with excellent chances for at least 1 freebie.

Performance however was excellent. Very passionate, very active and very sensual. And very memorable.

She is from Omsk. I must go there. After stopping at the pharmacy for condoms and spermicide, we went to the apartment. From then on she was 100% GFE and a sexual dynamo. Wow. We went at it hard core for two solid hours of almost position possible, me finishing once on her tits after a face fuck and once from behind. She didn't want me to finish in her mouth (she was very health conscious) and didn't want a facial to screw up her makeup or $300 hairdo (!!!). She sold her inhibitions well, as otherwise she was very accepting, even taking the initiative and "demanding" other positions. The best was doggy style, she arching her back so I could get very deep penetration. She had a beautiful little asshole I fingered as well. Being the gentleman I am, after round 2 I redressed to take her to the street and grab a taxi. Didn't want her out alone, as she was wearing a very very mini miniskirt and looked like a tart harlet...albeit an expensive one. She must truly be Siberian, it was under -20 at night and she was wearing a miniskirt...

Fenster

02-22-04, 00:45

Doc,

Can’t go to a tochka without being ratted on and embezzled from, rates at CF gone up while selection and quality have slimed, Hard Cock Café not happening in the least. So Doc, would you still recommend Moscow for a mid March trip? I’m starting to get cold feet based on what you had to say so far. Add to the latter – 21 degrees, and you’ve one grim prognosis. How about some advise Doc?

Doctor_Skank

02-22-04, 10:15

Fenster,

You should definitely go. Tochka is fine if you go early, I went too late for a busy night like Thursday. Go to tochka before midnight, at best around 10 to avoid all potential militia hassles and get the best selection. Mid-March COULD be warm again. The weather was bitter cold at night, but only about -10 during the day and sunny. Really quite beautiful, see the attached pic. Taken from just in front of Hard Rock BTW. Hard Rock hasn't really caught on yet, there are better places to go, much better places. Karma Bar on Thursday is a meat market if you are good at the freebie scene, I just didn't feel like staying out so late on that particular night and wanted the quick sure thing score.

As for CF, still decent girls for $100 to be had, but I am looking for other options now, as I am pissed about the 500 rubel security fee and even though I am sure that on a slow night you could make the girl pay the fee, I hate it when negotiation becomes the central theme, sapping away all the "romance"... :) CF goes through phases, I think it is in a bad phase now...doesn't mean it won't be really good again by March. You'll have to see.

Big Bro AJ: I will buy Ginseng tomorrow. Thanks for the tip.

Kremlin King

02-22-04, 14:04

Pool or Pond? (Part I).

This is going to be a long walk, but if you can understand it – you will learn much - and importantly, you will find it to be a specific and detailed report. It means nothing to me either way, but after reading these testimonials over the past week, thought to try to help. To start, I submit that WSG readers modify their perspective on [Sex in Moscow]. This will improve things.

We all know that the “service sector” in the FSU did not exist. Foreigners believed and could expect that: the quality of goods and services is very low, but the price was very cheap. The reality of life in Moscow today, is that the quality of goods and services in much higher than in the rest of the world, and significantly more expensive than all places except for London, Tokyo, New York, San Francisco, and a handful of my favourite Suisse ski resorts, notably Verbier (but please don’t go there, nor to the Farm Club, if you passed feis-control on your way up the mountain).

This is evidenced by the 70% luxury tax which I paid on my new S-class – yet you will notice that anyone with two nickels to rub together here, has one of only three types of cars: an S, A-8, or 7 series (or they drive a Lada, Voga, or Niva). Don’t tell me about the big SUVs – those are strictly reserved for staff. There is no middle-market. How many middle managers are driving Volkswagens (the largest automobile manufacturer in Europe) or Fiats (#2)? None!

The same is true in clothing, jewelry, etc. It is Gucci, D&G, Hermes, Bulgari – or some Turkish scraps bought at the open-air market next to the burning dumpster behind a Vokzal. Identical for restaurants. You can only choose from “the list” and go to Ulei, Vertinsky, Bed Café, Snobs, Marios, Vanil, Chocolate, Syr, Boulvard, Veranda, etc (there are at least 30), or you claw down into the mire of Yulkie Palkie. In hotels, it is either Ararat, National, Aurora, etc. at $300 - $400, or some $50 Sovietsky dive.

Life in Moscow is “Pool or Pond”, so where so you want to swim? You pay more, you get the best. You pay less, why come here at all? From Leeds to Cleveland, there ARE prostitutes in every “major” city! Don’t come to Moscow to get laid. Come for the best that the world has to offer.

It is exactly the same for Russian women. What is real the difference between $70 and $100 at the Tochka, when you spend so much “money” in the form of your opportunity costs just to get here. What is your time worth? Then add aeroplane tickets, hotels, visa, meals, etc. This becomes a very large number for the average (jeans, tee-shirt, and tennis shoe wearing) foreigner. A typical man’s trip in Moscow is probably not more than a week and he gets laid probably not more than two or three times, so that is going work out to a minimum of $1,000 a girl.

More importantly, it is less about the money, and more about the quality. Does +/- $50 in price really matter, when you are shopping in some “mud market” like Chesterfields? I hope that I do not hurt CA T “senior members” feelings again, but dirt at 65 cents is still dirt at 50 cents.

Advice: don’t ever go to some asylum for dullards and fools like Chesterfields or Night Flight or (my God say it isn’t so – Hard Rock Café!!!) or any other egregiously stupid establishment. This is like flying all the way to Russia to dine at TGI Fridays and stay at the Holiday Inn! Unless you were raised in a barn and breast-fed by a goat, consider that what I am telling you is true. It is; I said so.

So here is my spiff to WSG readers which I am positive to regret in only a matter of weeks. What the hell, my friend Jean Michel is the owner, so at the very least, he might appreciate the business. In English the name of the club could be transliterated as Chandra or Shandrah. It is not exactly “new new” as I went to the opening night in November, so unless you show up wearing dockers, a polo shirt and baseball cap, you will probably get in.

This club is in the dead centre near Tverskaya and the Kremlin (1/12 Gazeti Per. Tel 229.66.13). It is a most unusual club consisting of twelve rooms, three bars, one restaurant, and many tiny passageways and dark corridors. Designed in a North African theme of blood orange and black, with low ceilings, curtains, black leather, candles, incense, and exotic archways – it is an H-house like no other. The cuisine in fusion and you can dine uninterrupted – or proceed straight to the nether chambers for erotic company.

The rooms are in different shapes and sizes, could be described as catacombs. Some rooms are as small as an elegant closet with a blow-job chair and a mirror on the door to watch her kneel on the floor below you. Some rooms are pillows and beds and sheets and flowers and delight. One room has a swimming pool, two saunas, and a steam bath, with stereo and bar! How much money do you have?

(continued).

Kremlin King

02-22-04, 14:05

Pool or Pond? Part II

Like all high-end places in Moscow, there are VIP cards. Here, there are two types of club cards: RED – will get two (2) past the security and BLACK – will get four (4) inside the door. If you don’t have a club card, then you will have to pay 500 pp a man. If you either have money or just act like you have money, (again, like most clubs in Moscow) you will almost always be able to simply “Egoiste” your way in. Trust me and don’t accept “HET” as an answer, ever (and don’t show up drunk).

Remember: they are as afraid of you as you are of them. It is just perception: They are strong and violent, but you are wealthy and important, (neither is more than 60% real).

Although teaming with naked and semi-naked girls, it is not a strip club. Think of it as YOUR harem in a Moorish castle overlooking the Mediterranean with imported Russian slaves for your dark desires. There at three types of girls who work there: 1) waitresses and staff, 2) a few models who are simply paid by Jean Michel walk around and create ambiance, and 3) professionals. The latter will sit on your lap, strip for you, dance for you, or suck your dick as you desire. The first three pleasures can be arranged for small money in any of the rooms (100-300 pp). You may also buy them drinks.

To arrange a private room for the full menu, do exactly the following: 1) approach the best looking girl in the place – don’t be afraid, that is what she is there for, 2) tell her that you want to have sex with her (just like that) and 3) that you want to have a tour of the rooms to see what is available. 4) She will smile and give you a tour of the rooms and ask you which one you want. 5) Tell her which one and she will arrange everything and come back to you in 10-15 minutes. 6) Pay for both the room and for sex. Enjoy her charms for one hour, two hours, as you wish and then tip her. 7) Treat yourself like the Tsar you should be. This is Moscow so live large. Come out, have dinner and drinks. Take a new girl and a different room. Life is beautiful.

Prices! Of course, you need to know the prices. Rooms $40 to $1,000 (size and duration). Girls $100 to $200 per hour. Yes, it is possible to net out at +/-$150 without booze. As usual, NEVER accept a condom blow job – too many soft foreigners are wrecking this cherished Russian tradition. If your girl tries that BS, tell her no problem – “give me my money back now and I will ask the manager for another girl.” That will solve it.

My favourite girl is a bullet-proof 19 year old, natural blonde from Moscow (not Moldovia) named Sveta. You can’t miss her – she is that hot, but she is currently dancing in Ibiza, Spain until May 24th, so you will have to find your own favourites.

Authors note: I have spent the last nine years living in Ashgabat, Beijing, Tbilisi, Almaty, Macao, Ulaan Bataar, Baku, Tashkent, Bangkok, Kiev, Bishkek, Donetsk, Manilla, the Bahamas and beyond. Take my advice, or disregard, but in either variant don’t post anymore pathetic, cry-baby complaints like last time. Seriously, no one (especially me) gives a rat’s ass about your heightened sensitivities, emotional frailty, or your 399 posts from Sacramento.

Regards,

Kremlin King

CA Traveler

02-22-04, 18:48

kk... You write very well and provide excellent information. But I must ask, why you have to lower yourself to try to get a dig in and potentially ruin a rather informative report with an attempt at a slam?

Now, we may have gotten off on the wrong foot, so at this point, I will attempt to right the boat.

As many folks on WSA who know me personally will attest, I am not a desk-laden wanna-be as you may wrongly assume... I will gladly, in private, match my mongering resume, my personal financial statement and my life experiences head-to-head with anyone. HOWEVER, I personally do not think that this is the forum for a financial/life experiences face off.

So, I will commend you for providing some very valuable information to the forum. At the same time, I will also state that the vast majority of people that come to Moscow are not in a position to drop $1,000 a night for the experience you describe.

In fact, I personally think that one of the most enjoyable things about Moscow is the extreme variety and options of sexual pleasure available from the low-end to the very high-end.

At the same time, I also suspect that the club that you describe is actually only the tip of the iceburg for the high-end of pleasure which Moscow offers. Most Westerners will never be able to tap that market without an invitiation and/or a connection.

So, for the average monger visiting Moscow, it is important to know about CF/NF, tochkas, internet girls, apartments and various clubs, both "common folk" and elitny, that offer opportunities for "freebies". That variety is, In My Humble Opinion, what makes Moscow so unique.

I'm not clear from your postings if you live in Moscow or if you just visit frequently. If you live here or on one of your trips, I'll be happy to meet you at any time that is mutually convenient for us both. I live about 50 meters from Marios, so we shouldn't have any problem finding each other.