View Full Version : Kyiv Escorts
AColonizer
02-09-08, 11:49
A lot of people say Czech girls are the best sex machines in the world. So what is your opinion, who are worth in sex and travel cost: Czech girls or Ukrainian girls? Please, don't write Ukrainiain are cheaper.
AColonizer
02-09-08, 12:00
Who knows that? I like very tall girls because I can dive in their pussies with no problem :-P :-P :-P
http://flirt.com.ua/anketa.phtml?oid=178674992
Who has experienced their prices and services?
Cruiser,
Actually in the Odessa forum this is what I said about this sl ut:
"This Vera has stolen photos on her site. She is probably an ugly, fat, drug addict.
The worst part is that her services seem to amount to nothing more than a $100/hour boring missionary cum one time event.
Her site is typical of the worst attitudes of Ukrainian girls: "Here are my do's and don'ts, mostly don'ts, and you can pay ME to screw you out of your money!"'
If the attached is her actual photo, which I seriously doubt, then if you go the web site, NONE of the photos that she says are hers do not match. Not even close. That also means that the photos of her "friends" are also fake. To top it all off, her location on the site is "Russia" and not Ukraine.
Since we now know that Deeplover is this lady from Odessa, she is also way overpriced ($150 for the first hour, $100 afterwards) and her list of services leaves much to be desired. At this price, her asshole should be available. However, the only asshole that is available for her is the guy who actually would use this service provider.
If you look at her Kiev rates of 500 Euros for 12 hours plus transport costs plus hotel costs (for 12 hours????) then you see just how much of a total rip off that she is. Good lord, you can find dozens of other ladies in Kiev for $100 per hour, including anal!
OK, Vera, how do you explain that site of yours now? So be sad girl, you are a total waste of time and money.
Verochka,
First, you broke a very basic rule of this forum. You cannot advertise yourself in any way such as posting a link to your website. Jackson, the owner of this site, will ban you. There is another forum for advertisers such as yourself. I suggest you go there to tell us more lies about yourself. In case you doubt me, from the forum rules:
No Self-Promotion: Please do not post any messages anywhere on this site that are primarily for the promotion or advertising of any website, forums, email address, business, multi-level marketing activity, or other entities that you have an affiliation with EXCEPT in the classified advertising section
IF and it is a BIG if, that is your picture, then why are all the pictures on the website fakes. They do not match you and they are all of Western porn stars or models. In the pictures on the web site, faces are shown but your "real" picture has your face covered. Are you ashamed of something?
Forum members here want value for their money. You know that for Ukraine and especially for a backwater city such as Odessa, you are severely overpriced. I am sure you think highly of yourself but let me tell you, you have a tremendous amount of competition, both paid services and many for free.
I have been here for more than 15 years. I am sorry to tell you that you are just an average girl, nothing special.
In addition, your services are also very ordinary and boring. No BBBJ, no anal, nothing much more than a quick suck and fuck. And all of this for $150. What you provide for this extraordinary price is worth no more than $80 in Kiev. For Odessa such services are worth no more than $70.
Feel free Verunka to post in the forum but do not advertise or promote yourself. It is against forum rules and you really are not worth the money you want.
Vera, really, are you stupid?
I will say it simply so even you will understand.
For a Ukrainian girl you are average - actually for a girl anywhere you are average. Average as in average looking. Do you understand?
$150/hr for Odessa is over priced. You are charging too much money. For a girl like you I would only pay $60/hr in Kiev. Do you understand?
Every time you or some one like you posts here Uke Boy or myself will bash you. Just go away.
Hello!
My name is Vera and I would like to represent Me and my Friends on this web.
Someone said on this web site that I'm "Not Real" girl or "Stole Pics".
Guys!
I AM VERY SAD cose this is NOT TRUTH. Perhaps, guys who say like this just are jealous:) I am Real Girl, very attractive, honest and I provide professional Escort Service. I added my real photo from "real" life, made in Summer 2007.
For this reason look at me and my friends here, please:
http://www.xspussies.professionalescort.com
Tell me, please, what do you think?
Regards,
Vera.
Hello Vera,
Nice photo. I have some experience in Kiev and Sinferopol and planning soon a trip maybe to Kiev or Kharkov. Furthermore, long experience in countries like Thailand with the best sex performance girls and with the blondies in Czech Rep; however, the Ukraine young sexy women are excellent too.
I wonder what can you offer me in your services? Oral and anal too? And how are your rates for all night?
Thanks for your prompt reply
Hello Vera,
Nice photo. I have some experience in Kiev and Sinferopol and planning soon a trip maybe to Kiev or Kharkov. Furthermore, long experience in countries like Thailand with the best sex performance girls and with the blondies in Czech Rep; however, the Ukraine young sexy women are excellent too.
I wonder what can you offer me in your services? Oral and anal too? And how are your rates for all night?
Thanks for your prompt reply
Hello Vera
If all this is genuine perhaps you should explain Dasha. This girl's photo is quite common amongst porn sites for some years now.
LifeSavour
02-10-08, 09:54
Lighten the fuck up! Give the poor 'ol working girl her chance.
1) If a guy is wanting this (her) let him. What does it hurt ya?
2) You guys have too much time on your hands, get your hands doing other things. RUBBING PUSSY!
3) You write and act as if it is a personal ABASH to you, like its your site, like SHE is doing you all manner of HARM!
Life is too short.
Just my 2-kopecks worth.
LS Guy
Ps. I love the fact that the 'girlfriend' is having passport/registration troubles and keeps going to her native city to solve matters. Gives the old bastard time to 'host dinner parties'!
Check out Nadia. A 'free-bee'! Met once for a free english lesson and then INVITED her and another couple for my 'world famous' BEJING KAPUSTA wraps. Hot, Hot, HOTTT!
AColonizer
02-10-08, 15:24
I want to talk about the subject of this thread: real kiev escorts!
We haven't to chat about silly things.
The most important problem with escorts is the price! We haven't to waste our sweated and bloody money!
So smart mongers should never pay more than a standard price: read posts by master mongers like hecker and it travel and you understand 250$ for 8 hours all-kind sex is a honest price.
You understand girls older than 20 years should decrease their price because they are old girls.
You understand ukrainian economy is not a wealthy economy and so it is absurd that foreign mongers contribute in ukrainian inflation!
Therefore I propose an association of kiev mongers, more we are, more we pay the same price and more we decide which price to pay. This is the same system used by prostitutes and pimps because they understood when all of them ask for the same price, all customers pay that price.
We must break that "anti-competitive trust system" and we must choice prostitutes with lower prices.
There are a lot of nice prostitutes working with 40-60$/hour. It is very important that we talk about those "cheap" prostitutes and we never write about "expensive" prostitutes.
Furthermore we can assure a quantity of customers for cheap prostitutes as a bonus for their "fidelity".
The law of market rules everywhere!
And I thought Vera was stupid...
AColonizer
02-11-08, 17:18
Cruiser D,
Stupid is to waste money. I am continuing to read in this forum, people paying a lot for a fuck with no beautiful girls. Instead you prefer prostitutes rule the market and they decide the price. You are a master monger but also you will meet girls asking high prices and so you will go to Thailand.
I want to talk about the subject of this thread: real kiev escorts!
We haven't to chat about silly things.
The most important problem with escorts is the price! We haven't to waste our sweated and bloody money!
So smart mongers should never pay more than a standard price: read posts by master mongers like hecker and it travel and you understand 250$ for 8 hours all-kind sex is a honest price.
You understand girls older than 20 years should decrease their price because they are old girls.
You understand ukrainian economy is not a wealthy economy and so it is absurd that foreign mongers contribute in ukrainian inflation!
Therefore I propose an association of kiev mongers, more we are, more we pay the same price and more we decide which price to pay. This is the same system used by prostitutes and pimps because they understood when all of them ask for the same price, all customers pay that price.
We must break that "anti-competitive trust system" and we must choice prostitutes with lower prices.
There are a lot of nice prostitutes working with 40-60$/hour. It is very important that we talk about those "cheap" prostitutes and we never write about "expensive" prostitutes.
Furthermore we can assure a quantity of customers for cheap prostitutes as a bonus for their "fidelity".
The law of market rules everywhere!
good statement !!! I fully agree; however, could you give some information where to find the girls with the best value for our money? maybe places and phones numbers too?
Does anyone know whether Royal Kiev Escort is a genuine escort agency or has taken the services of this agency.
Also does anyone know whether picture of the girls are 'real'.
http://www.royal-kiev-escort.com/kiev-escorts-models.htm
Thank you
Hi,
Does anyone knows whether Royal Kiev Escort is an genuine agency.
Are the girls as shown on the website 'real'?
See link http://www.royal-kiev-escort.com/kiev-escorts-models.htm
Thx
Hi,
Does anyone knows whether Royal Kiev Escort is an genuine agency.
Are the girls as shown on the website 'real'?
See link http://www.royal-kiev-escort.com/kiev-escorts-models.htm
ThxI would be very interested to know if they are genuine too.
Seems to good to be true and has the same girls listed for months which is unusual as they come and go. (Girls also appear on several sites)
Fox7717
AColonizer
03-03-08, 13:23
Please, whatever are this site and agency and prostitutes, look at their prices! For 200 euros/hour, you could get everything in every part of the world, in your own country too! In Italy, you could get sex/2 hours and sometimes all without condom! swallow blowjobs included!
Hi,
Does anyone knows whether Royal Kiev Escort is an genuine agency.
Are the girls as shown on the website 'real'?
See link http://www.royal-kiev-escort.com/kiev-escorts-models.htm
Thx
Two hours in Kharkov $80. Kiev is pricing itself right out of the industry. Why in the world would anyone go someplace to pay €200-300? I cannot think of any place in the world that you could not get laid for that price! It is only sex for God's sake, not heart surgery!
Please, whatever are this site and agency and prostitutes, look at their prices! For 200 euros/hour, you could get everything in every part of the world, in your own country too! In Italy, you could get sex/2 hour sometimes all without condom! swallow blowjobs included!
NetViking 2008
03-07-08, 18:03
Hi,
I will be Tuesday in kiev for the first time, can somebody suggest me a nice blond young escort lady?
I'll be in President hotel, there is any problem there?
Hi,
I will be Tuesday in kiev for the first time, can somebody suggest me a nice blond young escort lady?
I'll be in President hotel, there is any problem there?There are tons of posts with reviews and everything else in this forum. Never got an escort in Kiev but the big ones are Gia and Vodka escorts. Both are not too cheap.
You could also go to RP and know what you are getting for probably less.
Two hours in Kharkov $80. Kiev is pricing itself right out of the industry. Why in the world would anyone go someplace to pay €200-300? I cannot think of any place in the world that you could not get laid for that price! It is only sex for God's sake, not heart surgery!Excuse me 80 dollars in kharkov there? Maybe in the newspapaer with low quality. I never try because when I go to kharko I go with only free girl but I don't see many pro in the city.
Sultano, there are very few place in Ukraine like Kiev (River Palace, Arena, Decadence) where it's fairly obvious what is going with the working girls. But semi pro's are all over the place. You just need the right approach and connections. And out of all the cities in Ukraine that I have been in I've never failed to see an abundance of girls hanging out by the side of the road looking for a 'ride'. Sure the majority of these girls are pretty fucking scarey. But I've also seen quite a few extremely good looking girls.
I remember visiting Kharkov a few years ago with the long departed (from this forum) Traveling Male. We visited about 3-4 apartments and never saw a girl that I would even fuck for free - never mind pay. Of course it was during the winter holidays during the coldest winter since 1938 so talent was probably lacking. Also, out of the 20 or so SW's that I saw during that trip I only saw one that was hot. A blond who didn't want to go back to my place without her (ugly) friend. The trip was a wash for p4p but the freebie market was quite exceptional.
Oh my point - $40/hr sound pretty reasonable for some quality talent in Kharkov. :D
AColonizer
03-13-08, 17:29
Dear gentlemen,
Write your girls' reviews here! This is the best way to get good sex with no troubles and frauds!
Everyday ten users of this forum fuck a girl in Kiev and therefore it should be at least five reports per day.
Please, help us to help you!
AColonizer
03-13-08, 21:02
Yes, I wrote the same opinion: so why did you quote my opinion?
Two hours in Kharkov $80. Kiev is pricing itself right out of the industry. Why in the world would anyone go someplace to pay €200-300? I cannot think of any place in the world that you could not get laid for that price! It is only sex for God's sake, not heart surgery!
Does anyone know whether Royal Kiev Escort is a genuine escort agency or has taken the services of this agency.
Also does anyone know whether picture of the girls are 'real'.
http://www.royal-kiev-escort.com/kiev-escorts-models.htm
Thank youI think you are their manager Tonia. Just I wrote you.
Brian Who Can
03-18-08, 20:54
Does anyone know whether Royal Kiev Escort is a genuine escort agency or has taken the services of this agency.
Also does anyone know whether picture of the girls are 'real'.
http://www.royal-kiev-escort.com/kiev-escorts-models.htm
Thank youHave a look at 'Dasha' in the models section.
Now look at this girl who I hired in Warsaw (paid her too much but thats another story) and reported on in the Poland section of this forum.
http://www.escort-poland.com/48/Laura/polish-escort.html
'Vera' looks sort of familiar as well. Maybe this agency does have the 'Playboy' centrefold Kimberly Holland on their books and she'll knock on your hotel room door for €200 an hour. I doubt it very much though.
http://glam0ur.com/gals/playmates/kimberly_holland/kimberly_holland.htm
I hate agencies that use false photo's (which is 95% of them unfortunately)
Avoid this one like the plague.
AColonizer
03-19-08, 14:52
I will give 10$ to who finds the best prostitutes or the best brothels in Kiev!
I will give 10$ to who finds the best prostitutes or the best brothels in Kiev!Better make that $20, the monkey boy dollar isn't worth much any more.
I am not sure why anyone even responds to the postings of web site owners such as this latest entry Eskadron. I cannot even begin to comprehend the naïveté of anyone who would even use this site believing that what he sees is what he will get.
Looking at his site, it is painfully and clearly obvious that many if not most of the pictures are fake.
Eskadron's comment that these are real is quite an obvious lie.
If you use this site, and to be honest, most of the other Ukrainian sites, you must be very careful. Common sense will in most cases tell you what pictures are real. All the rest, at least 90%, you MUST assume are fake.
Eskadron and his site is no different. It is just the usual series of lies and falsehoods designed to take your money for the ugliest looking girls and the worst and least services.
Tonight I was at a loose end. I had the number of a girl from RP, but couldn't wait, so I thought I'd try top models (www.top-models.com.ua). I searched by address and found five that do call ins near my flat. I think they all work together. Anyway I called and was told that Victoria was available. I went round and paid 500 gr. She was not a top model, but her photos on the site are real and she gives a good GFE, kisses and allows DATY. I had a good time and after I came, she was in no hurry to throw me out. I was waiting for a call from my RP girl, so I left anway. 30 minutes later RP girl wants to go to RP, so I go back to Victoria. This time Nastya is there too (real pictures, but better in the flesh). Thye make me a cup of tea and ask me to translate their English SMS messages. For 1,000 gr they then take me to the bedroom and give me the works. Again, no hurry to throw me out. So 1,500gr, but now I'm relaxed and happy.
I used a few topmodels girls this winter. Thought I would check out the link after the most recent report to see if anything has changed..and yes it has.
Prices are in UAH! Thank you W for destroying the American economy. And around $150 for the good looking girls. No need to leave home for that pricing.
Anyone know any good online escorts with real pictures and who will send girls to whole of europe
I have been in kiev last weekend and on sunday I tried to get some girl from that web-site.
I can say, that I have called nearly every girl, but only one of them understood something in english.
The most girls closed the telefon with the words "no english".
Every girls had a different name, as written on the web-site.
So it seems, there is everything fake!
I am really disappointed and will not suggest anyone to call girls from that site!!!
Tits_Lover
06-21-08, 09:11
Hello sexpert mongers from UKR .... Do you recall this girl being working at GIA in the past ? Any idea/memory about her services ?
I saw her appearing in Vilnius recently ... see her pic in the "Dnipropetrovsk" area, I did put them there by mistake.
thx
TL
AColonizer
06-21-08, 12:16
You never read my posts! However, you was lucky because you haven't tried some foreigner sex services. You should be more disappointed!
I have been in kiev last weekend and on sunday I tried to get some girl from that web-site.
I can say, that I have called nearly every girl, but only one of them understood something in english.
The most girls closed the telefon with the words "no english".
Every girls had a different name, as written on the web-site.
So it seems, there is everything fake!
I am really disappointed and will not suggest anyone to call girls from that site!!!
Speed Touch
06-21-08, 19:23
neo
yes, i agree. even some of the pictures that they say are real pictures are fakes or have been "photoshopped". i also noticed the price going from grivna to usd.note, that some of the independents on that site operate through a agency of some sort who can speak english. when you turn up at the address, the girls doesn't speak english! go figure.
gia, is reliable, the price is going up all the time!
speed touch
i have been in kiev last weekend and on sunday i tried to get some girl from that web-site.
i can say, that i have called nearly every girl, but only one of them understood something in english.
the most girls closed the telefon with the words "no english".
every girls had a different name, as written on the web-site.
so it seems, there is everything fake!
i am really disappointed and will not suggest anyone to call girls from that site!!!
AColonizer
06-24-08, 09:27
Please, give information about her and where she is now.
Alucard101
07-07-08, 15:38
Hello,
Does anyone have contact information from NILIA who worked months ago for Gia.com.ua?
Thanks for any info!
Joe Capitano
07-10-08, 16:54
Hi,
Do you have experience with this site? Are pictures real? Is it worth?
xgirl.com.ua
Thanks a lot
About this site is fake or not ?? http://escort-models.kiev.ua/
Its some one that have take any girl from there?
Im goint to Kiev for work and I stay 3-4 days if you know any girl 18-28 that is nice sexy and make anal pls send me a PM.
Thanks
AColonizer
08-01-08, 20:24
OK, I repeat how "system" works!
Those Internet sites, advertising ukrainian prostitutes, have got a lot of fake photos and fake services. It is hard to find the same prostitute that you see in advertisement. The only real information are about prices, crazy prices for just a pussy fucking.
I called some girls of those sites and I always received different, older and bad girls. In fact, there is one or two "agencies" that decide which girls to send to you.
Moreover, when you call a prostitute, the most important thing is about her service and she has to make a swallow blowjob at least. No cock kissing, no cock licking, no cock blowing (without condom, of course) mean no service. I am sure it is stupid to pay 100/150 $ for a pussy fucking only. For more information, look for my previous posts.
About this site is fake or not ?? http://escort-models.kiev.ua/
Its some one that have take any girl from there?
Im goint to Kiev for work and I stay 3-4 days if you know any girl 18-28 that is nice sexy and make anal pls send me a PM.
Thanks
Try http://top_models.com.ua. Many girls on this site offer anal, but only go for the ones in the real photo section. I have used this agency several times and had mixed results, once very good, and other times average. The ones offering their services for 400 Grivnas, even if they look quite good in the photo, are best avoided. As with everything you get what you pay for.
Actual address is:
http://top-models.com.ua.
I also had mixed results with this, pretty good girls some times. Sent back the other ones that I didn't like.
Try http://top_models.com.ua. Many girls on this site offer anal, but only go for the ones in the real photo section. I have used this agency several times and had mixed results, once very good, and other times average. The ones offering their services for 400 Grivnas, even if they look quite good in the photo, are best avoided. As with everything you get what you pay for.
Top Models isn't an agency, it's just a website.
AColonizer
08-05-08, 17:46
Ok, but where are reports and reviews about these sites and prostitutes???
It is more important to know which girls have real photos and good services, to avoid frauds and wastes!
I put three reviews, now it is your turn!
When I was in Kiev and I needed a girl quickly, I spent hours in phone calls to look for somebody of those sites, but photos were often fake and services were low level.
Moreover, in last six months, is your wage/salary doubled? No? Why should we pay for a double price in comparison of six monts ago?
I am 28 and I have done my fair of travels around the world and I have to say the Kiev sex industry is not as open as Prague, Germany, Brazil or any Asian country I have travel too. The first night in Kiev I travel the center looking for some action nothing. I came back to my apartment and found some websites. I should have learn my lesson the 1st time. I used these websites avoid them like the plague!!!
http://escort-models.kiev.ua/en-Agency-Escort-Girl.event_43.html
http://sexbomb.com.ua/en-index.html#start
http://dreamescort.com.ua/index.html
The 1st girl that arrived looking nothing like her picture on the website, but she was decent so I fucked her. I didn’t get a good nut so I order another girls and someone else came. I was like you have to be kidding me so I sent her back. I was like fuck it let me try one more time and again a totally different girl showed up only this time the girl claimed she was the one in the pictures. I said ok and then she said “ok ok I confess girls on site are fake Kiev big scandal “I smile and sent her back. I found this review site which has given me a lot of information.
The second day I just wonder and picked up a girl working in the mall : ) name Anika total hot girl! I invited her to dinner that night and ended up fucking her. I been fucking her for almost every day except for one, that night I ended up traveling to the River Palace because of this site. I almost used the GIA website but when I saw the prices I thought twice.
In the River Palace I saw a few girls who were decent and 4 knockouts! I got two for the night for $300 for one hour but I guess the girls liked my company and they stay the whole night.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Toptraveler1
08-14-08, 12:25
Gia increased their prices again and now it is among very expensive agency in the city.
Thanks to this website I check out the Dnipro Hotel and went to the strip club Millennium. Yes the strip joints are extremely expensive and thank goodness I read the post on here. I believe there were 12 girls and about 8 were very good looking. If it wasn’t for the information on this website I would have thought the girls only strip. One of the girls sat down next to me and we talked, I asked her how much and she said $600-800. I almost fell of my seat!
I was about to leave when another girl started to dance and I decided to stuck around and started to talk to a girl name Anna. Very adorable, sexy, and nice ass on her about 5/5… On the stage another girl name Kristina got my attention because of her long legs. I wanted both of them and tried and tried to bring the prices down but no go.
I wanted Anna because she was cute! Kristina goes “how about you take us both when we get off work and you pay 300 each for the day and we don’t have to pay the club.” $600 for two I was like mmm, OK! Yes I know it’s a lot of money but I m a contractor so no biggie. I recommend both of these girls! The sex was great! No BBJ, but their bodies and their oral skills were magnificent!
I have to agree GIA is a very expensive website but my dick got the best of me. A new girl name Ira was on the site and she barely had any pictures until now. Her regular pictures looked great which got my attention but the price was the problem. It was my last day and I had to be in the airport by 2 AM. I called Ana and Kristina from the Dnipro hotel but they were working. No time to head out hunting or going to the River Palace.
I called GIA and cross my fingers and ask for Ira, she was available and I asked to have her for an hour. I didn’t want to commit to spending $400! She came over to my hotel and I was breathless she looked good, long legs and beautiful eyes! We talked and got to business, first we stated with a BBJ which was awesome! I almost finished right there and then we stop and I got her to ride me, apparently she has only been in the business for a month I asked her because she was super tight.
I got on top and hit it as much as could before I finished on her mouth. Took a rest and started again doggie style and that got me off quick this time I wanted to finished in her mouth and she was hesitant but after asking and asking I did. The hour finished and she stay for a bit longer until she received a call for a new client. Overall Ira was worth every penny, than as morning came and I was on the plain I was like dam $900 on ass! LOL
Jose, you paid $600 for two strippers for a day - 24hrs?
Jose, you picked up a girl working in a mall? what was she doing? as in was she a working girl? or she was working there as a shop girl?
Gia........ are you mad?
And two strippers for so cheap? for 24 hours? man you are a great negotiator, my hat off to you.
Toptraveler1
08-31-08, 10:53
It is very strange because this girl was sick all the last week, as Diana the manager told every client! She had to be out of the buisness for "at least one week", so this week included!
anyway I have tried her but I don't like at all this agency. Do you know that 60% of the money is for the agnecy and just 40% for the girls?
I have some moral problem for that kind of exploitation.
I have to agree GIA is a very expensive website but my dick got the best of me. A new girl name Ira was on the site and she barely had any pictures until now. Her regular pictures looked great which got my attention but the price was the problem. It was my last day and I had to be in the airport by 2 AM. I called Ana and Kristina from the Dnipro hotel but they were working. No time to head out hunting or going to the River Palace.
I called GIA and cross my fingers and ask for Ira, she was available and I asked to have her for an hour. I didn’t want to commit to spending $400! She came over to my hotel and I was breathless she looked good, long legs and beautiful eyes! We talked and got to business, first we stated with a BBJ which was awesome! I almost finished right there and then we stop and I got her to ride me, apparently she has only been in the business for a month I asked her because she was super tight.
I got on top and hit it as much as could before I finished on her mouth. Took a rest and started again doggie style and that got me off quick this time I wanted to finished in her mouth and she was hesitant but after asking and asking I did. The hour finished and she stay for a bit longer until she received a call for a new client. Overall Ira was worth every penny, than as morning came and I was on the plain I was like dam $900 on ass! LOL
Cruiser D,
No, no I spent the day with the girls for about 5 hours. I didn’t pick them up in the club because it was too expensive. Outside the club they ask for 300 each which was better than $600 for one.
Q-Jump, I picked up the girl working in the underground mall selling magnets. I pretended to by some magnets which I did and asked for her phone numbers and that were it. It wasn’t cheap : ) I still spend $600 for two girls and had fun for 5 hours.
Top traveler 1, I met Ira on the 13th of August, my post are not current with what I been doing.
That's a fairly normal arrangement for agencies in the FSU. Even in the West it can run 20-50% for agencies.
anyway I have tried her but I don't like at all this agency. Do you know that 60% of the money is for the agnecy and just 40% for the girls?
I have some moral problem for that kind of exploitation.
Toptraveler1
09-01-08, 22:58
Yes my friend but 20% is not 60%.
That's a fairly normal arrangement for agencies in the FSU. Even in the West it can run 20-50% for agencies.
Just used this site for the second time.
http://www.royal-kiev-escort.com/index.htm
The first Girl Inna was quite good and did more or less what I wanted the second girl for tonight just left (Katia) who quite frankly was rubbish. Don't do this don't do that I don't like to much sex !! Guess what darling you are a Pro. I got bored sent her off and called the agency to let them know.
I know GIA is more expensive than previously but at least there is a menu, the girl will do this or that which cuts out all the guess work and hard work of getting them to do something.
I just want them to turn up, fuck me for 2 hours as advertised and then go.
I'll beat everyone to it and say, a bit pricey to say the least. You can get the same quality Ukrainian girl in NYC for $200-$300.
Being a fan of breast implants it's nice to see about 70% of the girls on the website have them. Nice to know they are putting their money to good use. :)
Orange Leo
09-06-08, 11:47
[QUOTE=Rum Coke]Just used this site for the second time.
http://www.royal-kiev-escort.com/index.htm
QUOTE]
When the girl work in kiev 200 euro in warsaw 200 zl, why that differents?
TheGuyFromNY
09-06-08, 18:15
But were the pictures accurate?
Just used this site for the second time.
http://www.royal-kiev-escort.com/index.htm
The first Girl Inna was quite good and did more or less what I wanted the second girl for tonight just left (Katia) who quite frankly was rubbish. Don't do this don't do that I don't like to much sex !! Guess what darling you are a Pro. I got bored sent her off and called the agency to let them know.
I know GIA is more expensive than previously but at least there is a menu, the girl will do this or that which cuts out all the guess work and hard work of getting them to do something.
I just want them to turn up, fuck me for 2 hours as advertised and then go.
NY, this is Ukraine we are talking about. Do YOU think those pictures are real? If you do, give me your phone number. There is a bridge or three that I want to sell you, they are in all in your neighborhood.
As for Royal Escort, at those prices, the only real "royal" you get is a royal screw. 200 Euros per hour? Are you guys nuts?
Don't pay these prices for ladies who you can also find on other web sites for a lot less. Paying anything more than $150 per hour in Kiev right now is insane. Worse yet, it feeds the notion that they can charge more and more, making the sitution even worse.
I agree with Cruiser. There a tons of Russian and Ukrainian ladies in NY who do it for as much or even less.
All photos are unreal because its strongly photoshoped, all their girls worthly than old horses, they really tired of their job. I will never book somebody from this agency again! Money does not matter!
http://www.gia-escort.com/
http://www.gia.com.ua/
http://sex-kiev-escorts.com/
http://www.ukraine-escorts-girl.info/
http://kiev-tour.com/
Guys dont book their old tired horses
Gregs, all you had to do is read the forum and you would have saved yourself from calling GIA.
Just Arrived in Kiev today and roomed at the Hyatt. A few extremely hot girls at the lobby when I was checking in but couldn't decide whether they were pros or Fashin TV was having a shoot!! Not taking any chances on my first night so I am having a girl from Gia to visit. They are telling me that the security won't be letting her in and I have to walk her in and out and tip the door man! What nonesense! I will post a review soon!
OK first things first. The pictures in Gia are neither fake nor touched up, mabe taken by professional photographers as opposed to snap shots us amateurs take!
I had seen pictures of Yarina (at least that is the name on the website) and being an ass man I had to see her- and what a nice ass! Booked the date for 2 hours, had to go to the street and get her past he security. We entered he room she showered and we went at it. It was pleasent but mechanical. Definitly no GFE, moreover no serious kissing, and the BBJ was so so. BUT the actual sex was very good as she has a nice way of going through various positions naturally as opposed to some others that you have to give directions to. The second time after a nice 69 the sex became even better. She is a nice girl both physically and appealing due to her laid back attitude. What made it special is that after the 2nd time she asked me to lie down and gave me a PERFECT massage which lasted about 30 minutes and took all the tension of the days travelling and ehaustion of the raw sex afterwards out of me. Will I call her gain? Maybe, but now that the pictures are real there is another one I want to see first!
Unless someone can give me a recommendation on a specific girl here in Kiev (one of those must see max GFE sort of deals) as I will be here for 2 more days before lying back home to Dubai.
Enjoy mongering gentelmen!
I booked a girl from Gia when I was in Kiev... She had a hot body, and will definately give you a good BBJ. The sex I thought was great and she is really sweet. I had a good experience with her.
Northsurvivor
09-19-08, 17:11
After googling through Ukrainian escort web sites it seems that only those are reliable.All of them are in English and have well-organized structure + decent design. Above that all of them has domain .COM.
While all other websites in russian are very messy and the same girls pop up all over.
Here is the link to list of those agencies mentioned above http://kiev-golden-escorts.com/links/
Have anybody arranged a meeting through those agencies? Are services good as a glossy websites?
Northsurvivor
09-19-08, 17:14
OK first things first. The pictures in Gia are neither fake nor touched up, mabe taken by professional photographers as opposed to snap shots us amateurs take!
I had seen pictures of Yarina (at least that is the name on the website) and being an ass man I had to see her- and what a nice ass! Booked the date for 2 hours, had to go to the street and get her past he security. We entered he room she showered and we went at it. It was pleasent but mechanical. Definitly no GFE, moreover no serious kissing, and the BBJ was so so. BUT the actual sex was very good as she has a nice way of going through various positions naturally as opposed to some others that you have to give directions to. The second time after a nice 69 the sex became even better. She is a nice girl both physically and appealing due to her laid back attitude. What made it special is that after the 2nd time she asked me to lie down and gave me a PERFECT massage which lasted about 30 minutes and took all the tension of the days travelling and ehaustion of the raw sex afterwards out of me. Will I call her gain? Maybe, but now that the pictures are real there is another one I want to see first!
Unless someone can give me a recommendation on a specific girl here in Kiev (one of those must see max GFE sort of deals) as I will be here for 2 more days before lying back home to Dubai.
Enjoy mongering gentelmen!Is it possible to meet on of those GIA ladies at her apartement ? Do they provide incall service?
Northsurvivor
09-19-08, 18:07
Just Arrived in Kiev today and roomed at the Hyatt. A few extremely hot girls at the lobby when I was checking in but couldn't decide whether they were pros or Fashin TV was having a shoot!! Not taking any chances on my first night so I am having a girl from Gia to visit. They are telling me that the security won't be letting her in and I have to walk her in and out and tip the door man! What nonesense! I will post a review soon!Is it possible to meet a Gia girl at her place? Does Gia-agency provide incalls?
Anyone believe this crap? GIA gets a few recent bad reviews and suddenly there are a couple of guys with 2-3 postings telling us how great GIA is. You want the real scoop RTFF.
GIA - over priced below average girls.
AColonizer
09-19-08, 23:42
Thanks guys. At last, somebody has understood the "system".
Anyone believe this crap? GIA gets a few recent bad reviews and suddenly there are a couple of guys with 2-3 postings telling us how great GIA is. You want the real scoop RTFF.
GIA - over priced below average girls.All new accounts as well, hmmm, I never tried Gia myself. I called once and could not get them to come to my apartment because they said it was outside the city center.
GIA has been covered a million times in the forum - overpriced below average girls. Five years ago it used to be below average girls at below average prices. After the US election when oil goes back under $50/brl and the Russian and Ukrainian economy and banking system collapse it might return to that. Until then you are better off going to River Palace if you are a business man in Kyiv looking for a quick fix.
GIA has been covered a million times in the forum - overpriced below average girls. Five years ago it used to be below average girls at below average prices. After the US election when oil goes back under $50/brl and the Russian and Ukrainian economy and banking system collapse it might return to that. Until then you are better off going to River Palace if you are a business man in Kyiv looking for a quick fix.The russian economy will not collapse after the US election.Opposite to this the oil price will get up after the election to 130-150$ per barrel.They keep it low now to improve the standard of living of voters till the election.
Hecker, master of statistical analysts. Recheck your figures and history of the oil market. Unless a new market paradigm takes over my analysts is as sure and easy as 1+1=2. The current Russian economy can not survive oil below $50/brl - look what happened when oil went/is under $100.
If the standard of living gets any lower for the middle class in American it will be called the Second Great Depression and as the American economy goes, so goes the world. W will be out of office soon and Big Oil is trying to grab anything they can before the party is over. There has been no pre election relief on consumer gas or oil prices in the US.
Be careful and recheck, I don't want to Roger Millie you.
Hecker, master of statistical analysts. Recheck your figures and history of the oil market. Unless a new market paradigm takes over my analysts is as sure and easy as 1+1=2. The current Russian economy can not survive oil below $50/brl - look what happened when oil went/is under $100.
If the standard of living gets any lower for the middle class in American it will be called the Second Great Depression and as the American economy goes, so goes the world. W will be out of office soon and Big Oil is trying to grab anything they can before the party is over. There has been no pre election relief on consumer gas or oil prices in the US.
Be careful and recheck, I don't want to Roger Millie you.O.K. Let it be a bet between us. I wrote that oil prize will increase after US elections,you wrote that it will decrease.The time to see who is right is not far.
Bunkush Bunkush
09-24-08, 22:54
I've read most of the posts here and I came out with 3 important results:
(1) all escort websites are shit, with nothing to offer but fake photos and overpriced girls in a city where beauful women are in rediculous abundance!
(2) Independant escorts are there, but rare, and pimps, who take 60% of the money, have a stranglehold on the market.
(3) English speaking escorts are very expensive, although good articulation is not exactly what we are paying for.
In the light of this bleak picture, I decided to follow a different approach; which is to try and reach whatever independants available on the scene without attracting the attention of the pimps. I tried a simple plan that seemed to work (or so I hope). I emailed all escort agencies and erotic massage parlors and in Kiev, telling them about my special requests and asking them to find me a girl who could fullfill them, leaving my mobile numbers at the end of the email.
A couple of days latter, I received phone calls from several girls. With the help of the few ukranian phrases I knew, I managed to communicate with one of them who claimed she was dialing numbers at random. She made many other interesting claims, one of which was that she was 20, then we exchanged photos (she looks pretty, not so stunningly pretty as models on escort sites, but as beautiful as the girls you see on the streets of kiev. Which is quite nice. She looks about 25 or 26. She said that according to my photos I looked like Moldavians (I don't know if that is good or bad or whatAfter several phone calls, we agreed that she will meet me in my appratment and that I will prepare her dinner.
All seems nice, but somehow I am a bit worried about how easy everything went. We did not talk about sex, we did not talk about meeting her for a fee or paying anything. It was all like arranging a normal internet semi-blind date, although, of course, it isn't that.
I know, of course, that the girls is most propably a working girl who found my phone numbers in one of my emails to the excort or massage websites, and decided to call me directly so that she can circumvent the pimp. Buit I am also worried, could the girl be dangerous in anyway? Or am I too paranoid to think that way?
I gave her my adress. She asked if I was married or had children and knows I don't. Could she, for instance, bring someone with her and rub the appartment? Have any such incedents been reported before? DO such things happen in Kiev? Please give me your feed back.
Another quesation: have any of you tried Anzhelika from http://www.top-models.com. Ua/? Is she as the photos suggest? Is she good in bed?
Thank you, and I am staying in Kiev for 3 more years, so I will be experimenting a lot and giving you lots of fed back.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
LifeSavour
09-25-08, 05:25
I've read most of the posts here and I came out with 3 important results:
I gave her my adress. She asked if I was married or had children and knows I don't. Could she, for instance, bring someone with her and rub the appartment? Have any such incedents been reported before? DO such things happen in Kiev? Please give me your feed back..[/blue][/size]In my experience most girls want to meet in some neutral atmosphere, a cafe close to your flat (then go to the cafe after you both feel OK). I would suggest this if I was you. If she refuses and just wants to come directly to you. RED FLAG! (unless of course you are paying $, which you said there was not mention of).
I would be certain to watch my drinks, never leave her alone (like if ya go shower), keep the door locked and don't answer it if there is a knock!
Things have and do happen. There are reports on the site.
Good Luck!
(1) all escort websites are shit, with nothing to offer but fake photos and overpriced girls in a city where beauful women are in rediculous abundance!
NOT ALL, JUST THE ONES WHERE THE GIRLS LOOK TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE
(2) Independant escorts are there, but rare, and pimps, who take 60% of the money, have a stranglehold on the market.
RARE? AS IN STEAK RARE? HELL NO THEY ARE EVERYWHERE INDEPENDANTS IN NEARLY EVER BAR IN THE CITY READ THE FORUM MAN THERES ALL THE INFO YOU NEED TO FIND THEM
(3) English speaking escorts are very expensive, although good articulation is not exactly what we are paying for.
NOPE
A couple of days latter, I received phone calls from several girls. With the help of the few ukranian phrases I knew, I managed to communicate with one of them who claimed she was dialing numbers at random. She made many other interesting claims, one of which was that she was 20, then we exchanged photos (she looks pretty, not so stunningly pretty as models on escort sites, but as beautiful as the girls you see on the streets of kiev. Which is quite nice. She looks about 25 or 26. She said that according to my photos I looked like Moldavians (I don't know if that is good or bad or whatAfter several phone calls, we agreed that she will meet me in my appratment and that I will prepare her dinner.
DID YOU NOT ASK WHAT SITE SHE GOT YOUR NUMBER FROM?
All seems nice, but somehow I am a bit worried about how easy everything went. We did not talk about sex, we did not talk about meeting her for a fee or paying anything. It was all like arranging a normal internet semi-blind date, although, of course, it isn't that.
PERHAPS SHE HAS THE SAME INTRESTS AS YOU AND IS A FREEBIE?
I know, of course, that the girls is most propably a working girl who found my phone numbers in one of my emails to the excort or massage websites, and decided to call me directly so that she can circumvent the pimp. Buit I am also worried, could the girl be dangerous in anyway? Or am I too paranoid to think that way?
PARANOID ? WHO'S THAT BEHIND YOU?
I gave her my adress. She asked if I was married or had children and knows I don't. Could she, for instance, bring someone with her and rub the appartment? Have any such incedents been reported before? DO such things happen in Kiev? Please give me your feed back.
YES BUT WHEN SHE COMES TO YOUR DOOR LOOK FOR A SECOND PERSON THAT MAY BE A GIVE AWAY
Another quesation: have any of you tried Anzhelika from http://www.top-models.com. Ua/? Is she as the photos suggest? Is she good in bed?
I WOULD SAY YES HER PICTURES ARE REAL AS SURELY THEY WOULD PUT BETTER SCAM PICTURES UP!
Thank you, and I am staying in Kiev for 3 more years, so I will be experimenting a lot and giving you lots of fed back.
3 MORE YEARS? GET YOURSELF TO RP, HELL PM ME I WILL HOOK UP WITH YOU NEXT TIME I AM IN KIEV!
Please guys tell me apart from shipping costs has the oil price got to do with the ukrainian economy, last time I looked it has none! Its is a net importer!
Perhaps you should follow iron ore prices more, or coal prices, to get a better picture of the UA economy, as thats where the money is made in Ukraine, hence the need for Kiev to keep the east of Ukraine on side as if this end of the country decided to do a South Ossetia, Ukrains economy would for sure not be so attractive any more!
Thanks and now back to the escorts!
Bunkush Bunkush
09-25-08, 08:37
Please guys tell me apart from shipping costs has the oil price got to do with the ukrainian economy, last time I looked it has none! Its is a net importer!Yes, but the biggest importer of Ukranian goods is Russia, and the volume of Ukranian exports to Russia is almost directly proportional to the increase in oil prices (High oil prices=better Russian Economy= better ability for Russia to buy stuff from other countries). Also most of Ukraine's foreign investments are in Russia, and those investments yield more profits when the Russian eceonmy is fourishing. In other words: The ukranian economy is highly dependant on Russian economy, which is highly dependant on oil prices.
What has that got to do with escorts? Well, a sharp drop in oil prices means Ukranian economy will be like Alice in wonderland, right after she drank that stuff that made shrink to bunny-size. Also, any conflicts with Russia which could threaten to extend to ukraine would have the same effect on the economy. The result is that the Good Old Dollaroff would buy you more stuff in ukraine, and the escort service, like all other services in all sectors of ukrainian economy, would have to reconsider their extremly stupid prices.
Or so I hope
Oh, and let me know when you visit Kiev the nxt time. I hope by then I would've gathered enough data about that tempting city. I've only been around for 10 days.
P.S. To LifeSavour: Thank you, I'll try going to a cafe first and see if I can trust the girl.
By the way, the girl is not from kiev, but from a city whose name is very hard to pronounce or remember or even hear properly (conains quite a bunch of Zs in it, or so it seemed) and is about 120 KMS from kiev. She said she will come and return to her town on the same day.
Funny thing is that when I asked her what would she like to eat and drink (two of the few phrases I know how to pronouce correctly in Russian) she suggested "Pizza and coffee"! And from the way she said it, I got the impression that Pizza is propably one heck of a delicasy here! Is that so?
As far as I know, the concept of junk food is not so wide spread in Kiev. The only resturant chain I saw here is Mc-Fuckin-Donalds, and it serves the worst stuff of its kind anywhere. All other resturantsdo not do home delivery, except for some very few pizza joints!
As for what she liked to drink, she said, after some serious pondering" Whisky! ". I asked her which brand, and she didn't seem to know any brands. I thought maybe she didn't understand me, so I started receiting all whisky brands available and she said "niznayou, niznayou" then said something that propably means I might chose what I like as long as it is whisky.
I told her "Pizza and Whisky na moy Doma? " and she seemed to understand what I meant and went "hmmmm, nyet nyet" for some time, then, after some effort went only "hmmmm" then finaly gave me a "khrashoa". I guess I would sound stupid now asking her to go to a cafe instead, but I guess when one is newbie, safe is better that fucked-up.
Sevastopol1
09-25-08, 10:07
Please guys tell me apart from shipping costs has the oil price got to do with the ukrainian economy, last time I looked it has none! Its is a net importer!
Perhaps you should follow iron ore prices more, or coal prices, to get a better picture of the UA economy, as thats where the money is made in Ukraine, hence the need for Kiev to keep the east of Ukraine on side as if this end of the country decided to do a South Ossetia, Ukrains economy would for sure not be so attractive any more!
Thanks and now back to the escorts!
You forget "The Bread Basket of the former USSR"
If you need more info can supply.
Regards Sev
Please guys tell me apart from shipping costs has the oil price got to do with the ukrainian economy, last time I looked it has none! Its is a net importer!
Perhaps you should follow iron ore prices more, or coal prices, to get a better picture of the UA economy, as thats where the money is made in Ukraine, hence the need for Kiev to keep the east of Ukraine on side as if this end of the country decided to do a South Ossetia, Ukrains economy would for sure not be so attractive any more!
Thanks and now back to the escorts!There is flow of oil money from Moscow to Kiev.You also know that Russia pays for steel from Donbass in fixed prices which are set according to numbers correlated to oil prices since ukrainian factories are still not modernized and Russians have agreed to buy according to what they can afford,and what they can afford depends on their profits from oil and gas exports.
So if Russian economy collapses due to decrease in oil price,ukrainian will immediately follow as well as belarus.These economies are very strong tied to each other(baltic economies were also tied to russian but now they are much more independant).
I dunno, since 1991 the Ukrainian market has followed the Russia market like a puppy dog. Something change recently? Seems like Russia still dominates Ukraine.
There is flow of oil money from Moscow to Kiev.You also know that Russia pays for steel from Donbass in fixed prices which are set according to numbers correlated to oil prices since ukrainian factories are still not modernized and Russians have agreed to buy according to what they can afford,and what they can afford depends on their profits from oil and gas exports.
So if Russian economy collapses due to decrease in oil price,ukrainian will immediately follow as well as belarus.These economies are very strong tied to each other(baltic economies were also tied to russian but now they are much more independant).
I think you will find the Russians do buy steel at fixed prices, the same as the rest of the world its called a market price!
I should know............ I sell it to them ;)
And the same goes for coal!
The Ukrainian economy is not so tied to Russia as you may think!
But over this weekend theres been a rush to prominvest banks people getting there money out as it looks like the first bank here to hit trouble and no doubt not the last.
You know banks have no money here some are offering 24% on grevna savings! and even 16% on USD/ Euro
Not to continue this thread...but...
Is there a bank in the Ukraine still owned by Ukrainians or Russians?
Poor Europeans, first Fortis, now this.
Looks like the American government just bought Wall Street - if only...
The finance markets as they stand have never been nothing more then a shell game. It's time we moved on to another model. I'm sure Banker24 will slap me hard when we meet again - that is if he still reads this forum.
All you finance guys start humming a few bars of 'it's the end of the world as I know it and I feel fine'.
On to more practical matters.
Ah B, I just saw your message...it got snuck in between us senior posters.
No, pizza is not a delicately (let me refer you to my classic posting 'the 750uah pizza'), from what I could see in the Ukraine. Although I met this girl from Zaporizhzhya with her father (don't ask), went out for pizza and it was the first time the old man had seen such a thing. He was suitably impressed and I think upset when I didn't marry his daughter. This was 3 years ago. I'm sure they have quite a few pizza places in Zap now, but I'm also sure the 40+ set aren't going to them. :)
The only junk food place you spotted in Kyiv was McDonalds??? Do you want around the city with your eyes closed? Mr Snack, Potato House, all the Ukrainian cafeterias and I'm sure dozens and dozens of place I know nothing about. My favorite food joke in the Ukraine is, 'would you like some fat sauce on top of your fried fat?' And actually quite a few places do home delivery. Not that I ever partaken in it. Home delivery for me is calling a girl and asking her to come over with some food.
Not to continue this thread...but...
Is there a bank in the Ukraine still owned by Ukrainians or Russians?
Poor Europeans, first Fortis, now this.
Looks like the American government just bought Wall Street - if only...
The finance markets as they stand have never been nothing more then a shell game. It's time we moved on to another model. I'm sure Banker24 will slap me hard when we meet again - that is if he still reads this forum.
All you finance guys start humming a few bars of 'it's the end of the world as I know it and I feel fine'.
On to more practical matters.
Ah B, I just saw your message...it got snuck in between us senior posters.
No, pizza is not a delicately (let me refer you to my classic posting 'the 750uah pizza'), from what I could see in the Ukraine. Although I met this girl from Zaporizhzhya with her father (don't ask), went out for pizza and it was the first time the old man had seen such a thing. He was suitably impressed and I think upset when I didn't marry his daughter. This was 3 years ago. I'm sure they have quite a few pizza places in Zap now, but I'm also sure the 40+ set aren't going to them. :)
The only junk food place you spotted in Kyiv was McDonalds??? Do you want around the city with your eyes closed? Mr Snack, Potato House, all the Ukrainian cafeterias and I'm sure dozens and dozens of place I know nothing about. My favorite food joke in the Ukraine is, 'would you like some fat sauce on top of your fried fat?' And actually quite a few places do home delivery. Not that I ever partaken in it. Home delivery for me is calling a girl and asking her to come over with some food.
Although it does not matter as CD usually has something interesting too say. Current 'crisis' is deliberate? Bush was trying not to laugh at the recent press conferences. Try youtube and look at some videos on the central (Fed) Bank scam, which is an eye opener to put it mildly! 'Debt slaves' just became even more enslaved as US national debt just doubled in a couple of weeks! It will also continue to get worse. 5 trillion USD and counting.
This stuff is a good alternative to thinking about the mother in law when on the 'vinegar strokes!' Works for me anyway.
Fox7717
It's time we moved on to another model
What, like communism? One more for you, Obama
People make money, increase their net worth doing nothing productive, by being nothing but parasites. Like I said, it's time to move to another model of doing business. If you disagree one really has to wonder where your intellect is.
People make money, increase their net worth doing nothing productive, by being nothing but parasites. Like I said, it's time to move to another model of doing business. If you disagree one really has to wonder where your intellect is.
The old business model seems dead. We need a new system. I read that in Barclays Bank only 2 people understood one of the 'derivatives' they lost a shit load on recently. Hardly surprising then!
You should watch a couple of videos on YouTube about the scam behind the fed and so called 'fractional reserve banking' which has resulted in 300m debt slaves. (American national debt has doubled in only a couple of months to 5 or 6 trillion I believe: Good luck!)
Anyway.......back to the hookers!
Unfortunately there is no 'other way of doing business'. If you think people who make money from financial transactions are 'parasites' because they're not doing honest, 'real' work like building bridges, planes or choo choo trains then you're no different from the sort of socialist that's become all too prevalent on both sides of the Atlantic. Increase regulations and restrict business and it will move to Switzerland, Dubai or even Mumbai and take its tax revenues with it. You need financial markets more than they need you.
Foxy, glad you mentioned hookers, as they know all about servicing demand, free market prices, and working for themselves as self employed business people. Somewhat like cabbies, I daresay.
Unfortunately there is no 'other way of doing business'. If you think people who make money from financial transactions are 'parasites' because they're not doing honest, 'real' work like building bridges, planes or choo choo trains then you're no different from the sort of socialist that's become all too prevalent on both sides of the Atlantic. Increase regulations and restrict business and it will move to Switzerland, Dubai or even Mumbai and take its tax revenues with it. You need financial markets more than they need you.
Foxy, glad you mentioned hookers, as they know all about servicing demand, free market prices, and working for themselves as self employed business people. Somewhat like cabbies, I daresay.
Capitalism is probably the least worst option, but just needs some refining/ better regulation? As I said to CD I read that only 2 people in Barclays understood one of the 'derivatives' that they lost a shit load of money on. Hardly surprising then! A few people made a shed load and now 1,000's suffer this cannot be a good thing. If so, Dubai or where ever is welcome to it, as it can only get worse with weaker regulation.
Anyway.......about those hookers!
The paradox with regulation is that the market losers cry for more of it (blaming a lack of it for their losses) and the winners just don't want to know. I suggest shareholders regulate their own stockholdings by occasionally asking "does this company employ people that have some idea what the fuck they're doing?"
Interestingly, in a country like Ukraine where the common man actually expects his government to screw him rather than protect him, we see the same old thing. The more credit that's available, the more it gets snapped up.
Capitalism is a natural mechanism for transferring wealth up the pyramid, BUT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE A PART OF IT. Go figure.
Thank God the hookers in Ukraine aren't regulated, eh? Let's see if minimum wage applies in the next few months :)
You say 'transfer wealth UP the pyramid'
I thought it was supposed to 'trickle down'
Anyway, the girls in Ukraine are generally very good at marketing and get top dollar or over what their worth. Good for them.
The paradox with regulation is that the market losers cry for more of it (blaming a lack of it for their losses) and the winners just don't want to know. I suggest shareholders regulate their own stockholdings by occasionally asking "does this company employ people that have some idea what the fuck they're doing?"
Interestingly, in a country like Ukraine where the common man actually expects his government to screw him rather than protect him, we see the same old thing. The more credit that's available, the more it gets snapped up.
Capitalism is a natural mechanism for transferring wealth up the pyramid, BUT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE A PART OF IT. Go figure.
Thank God the hookers in Ukraine aren't regulated, eh? Let's see if minimum wage applies in the next few months :)
Either they're good at marketing or we're poor at negotiating. I don't know which predominates. The fact that most RP girls would rather go home with nothing than make half or two thirds of their asking price suggests they know less than Mr Dick H. Fuld about economics.
Capitalism is certainly 'trickle down' in the sense that the richest 10% getting richer will do more discretionary spending which will boost the incomes of people lower down. However when it comes to *investing* people at the bottom make mistakes and believe lies that lead to their capital flowing towards the smarter people at the top. These are both good things and should NOT be 'regulated'.
Ash, I'm way beyond you. The fact that it's about 'winners and losers' shows where your mindset is. Trickle down economics - now I'm really having my doubts about you. An unregulated market and legal financial 'scams' is what lead us to the point we are at now and in 1929. Hence my comments about parasites – both political and financial. The only hope the world has of avoiding another great depression is if the US Government bails out failing and failed financial institutions. People like you bray on and on about the evils of socialism holding capitalism as your shining light and Holy Grail. But isn't this case in point of failed capitalism and socialism coming to save the day? Idiots in the US for the last ten years or so went on and on about how Social Security should be privatized – a super 401k put in the ‘stock market’. What these idiots fail to realize is that the Social Security program in the US came about because the stock market failed in 1929. No chances of something like that happening again, eh? Of course I shouldn’t call all these people idiots. Some are just the above mentioned parasites looking to feed on something like the privatization of the US Social Security system.
Trickle down economics Bubba? It’s time to start sharpening the blade on the Guillotine, that's the ultimate result of trickle down economics.
Scientific and social progression is much more important then economic progression in any 'advanced' society. I'd like to advance, obviously you are more interested in brightly colored stones and shiny metal.
Back to hookers...:)
AColonizer
10-04-08, 17:30
Yes, you are right, this is the problem but what about its solution? Do we leave beginner mongers inflationating girls' prices? What is your advise to solve this huge problem in Ukraine?
Either they're good at marketing or we're poor at negotiating. I don't know which predominates. The fact that most RP girls would rather go home with nothing than make half or two thirds of their asking price suggests they know less than Mr Dick H. Fuld about economics.
Capitalism is certainly 'trickle down' in the sense that the richest 10% getting richer will do more discretionary spending which will boost the incomes of people lower down. However when it comes to *investing* people at the bottom make mistakes and believe lies that lead to their capital flowing towards the smarter people at the top. These are both good things and should NOT be 'regulated'.
Either they're good at marketing or we're poor at negotiating. I don't know which predominates. The fact that most RP girls would rather go home with nothing than make half or two thirds of their asking price suggests they know less than Mr Dick H. Fuld about economics.
Capitalism is certainly 'trickle down' in the sense that the richest 10% getting richer will do more discretionary spending which will boost the incomes of people lower down. However when it comes to *investing* people at the bottom make mistakes and believe lies that lead to their capital flowing towards the smarter people at the top. These are both good things and should NOT be 'regulated'.
Why spread yer legs for half, when a day or two later she will probably get lucky and get 'full' price? This seems to be how they usually think, unless desperate for the money.
The 1929 'crash' was DELIBERATE with the intention of removing the gold standard once and for all; to be replaced by the 'Fiat money' system. Tons of stuff on YouTube about this.
Back to the hookers.......especially those with big tits!
Ash, I'm way beyond you. The fact that it's about 'winners and losers' shows where your mindset is. Trickle down economics - now I'm really having my doubts about you. An unregulated market and legal financial 'scams' is what lead us to the point we are at now and in 1929. Hence my comments about parasites – both political and financial. The only hope the world has of avoiding another great depression is if the US Government bails out failing and failed financial institutions. People like you bray on and on about the evils of socialism holding capitalism as your shining light and Holy Grail. But isn't this case in point of failed capitalism and socialism coming to save the day? Idiots in the US for the last ten years or so went on and on about how Social Security should be privatized – a super 401k put in the ‘stock market’. What these idiots fail to realize is that the Social Security program in the US came about because the stock market failed in 1929. No chances of something like that happening again, eh? Of course I shouldn’t call all these people idiots. Some are just the above mentioned parasites looking to feed on something like the privatization of the US Social Security system.
Trickle down economics Bubba? It’s time to start sharpening the blade on the Guillotine, that's the ultimate result of trickle down economics.
Scientific and social progression is much more important then economic progression in any 'advanced' society. I'd like to advance, obviously you are more interested in brightly colored stones and shiny metal.
Back to hookers...:)
Fox, I think the 1929 Crash was a direct result of the deregulation of the then stock market and people thinking what was basically a Ponzi scheme wouldn't implode.
Now, I can shed some light on the River Palace scene and you are right, the underlying reason is that the girls simply aren't as 'desperate' as they used to be. Right up until 2005 you would see happy couples leaving RP at a brisk rate for $100-$200/night. Now more Ukrainian men can (temporarily) afford their services or give some of the semi pro's the kind of life where they don't need to sell themselves (to many men).
Fox, I think the 1929 Crash was a direct result of the deregulation of the then stock market and people thinking what was basically a Ponzi scheme wouldn't implode.
Now, I can shed some light on the River Palace scene and you are right, the underlying reason is that the girls simply aren't as 'desperate' as they used to be. Right up until 2005 you would see happy couples leaving RP at a brisk rate for $100-$200/night. Now more Ukrainian men can (temporarily) afford their services or give some of the semi pro's the kind of life where they don't need to sell themselves (to many men).
The 1929 was caused by the Bankers calling in their loans that millions had used to buy shares during the 'boom' These loans were secured by these shares and so most punters had no choice but to sell these shares to repay their loans. Millions of people selling= A crash in values (very quickly.) The bankers cleaned up, for any loss on these 'share loans' were more than covered by the companies/Banks they bought at cents on the Dollar. (Especially when the market/values recovered later.) One of the biggest players in this scam was JP Morgan who are now one of the few Banks not in trouble and who have bought the remains of several other Banks/competitors for peanuts. (eg. Merill Lynch) Coincidence? I don't think so!
Agreed about RP. I have noticed a change since I first visited 3 years ago. Most girls seem far more relaxed and less desperate. They also now seem more picky and aim to get $300-500 from far less punters. (ie. To earn same or even more overall.) Ratio of WG to regular girls has also decreased a bit?
What do you mean ratio of working girls to regular girls has changed?
From what I've seen RP is still generally 99% working girls. You might get a regular girl who is there with a date. But no girl or groups of girls are going there just to dance.
It was funny, last year I was there with an ISG member and in walks a girl I had met through another girl friend. She was so embaressed. She tried to ignore me at first but I wouldn't have any of that. She gave me a story about how it was her first time there, she had just came there for the disco because it was so close to her place. I said yeah, that's what I tell people too. Just to make sure I had my buddy go up to her (he wasn't sitting with me when she walked by) and ask the ol' RP question - How much? The reply was $400. Guess she didn't just go there for the disco. :) Also, I closed the place out because it was my buddy's first trip to RP and he was having a hard time choosing. I ended up sitting on the couch out in the lobby because I was so bored. Guess who walks by with a 'client' in tow. I said hi, but she didn't even acknowledge me. Her friend (she was with a second girl) said hi. From what I understand she got married or enganged this year (she was also a professional foreigner dater). I wonder if he knows about her past. :) 7.5 for a body 6.5 for a face.
AColonizer
10-05-08, 12:50
Good question! Maybe you are joking? ;-)
I wonder this question a lot of times and my reply is: males don't usually want to know the truth, they are boyfriends or husdands, they want just to fuck, therefore love doesn't exist, just sex (and money) exists.
In those situations, the real problem is about width of pussy and ass because a medium-average penis goes into too easily and males feel just a too large hole unable to fill completely.
. . . From what I understand she got married or enganged this year (she was also a professional foreigner dater). I wonder if he knows about her past. :) 7.5 for a body 6.5 for a face.
One of the biggest players in this scam was JP Morgan who are now one of the few Banks not in trouble and who have bought the remains of several other Banks/competitors for peanuts. (eg. Merill Lynch)
JP did not buy Merrill Lynch
JP did not buy Merrill Lynch
JPM bought what was left of Lehman Brothers. (My mistake)
What do you mean ratio of working girls to regular girls has changed?
From what I've seen RP is still generally 99% working girls. You might get a regular girl who is there with a date. But no girls or groups of girls are going there just to dance.
It was funny, last year I was there with an ISG member and in walks a girl I had met through another girl friend. She was so embaressed. She tried to ignore me at first but I wouldn't have any of that. She gave me a story about how it was her first time there, she had just came there for the disco because it was so close to her place. I said yeah, that's what I tell people too. Just to make sure I had my buddy go up to her (he wasn't sitting with me when she walked by) and ask the ol' RP question - How much? The reply was $400. Guess she didn't just go there for the disco. :) Also, I closed the place out because it was my buddy's first trip to RP and he was having a hard time choosing. I ended up sitting on the couch out in the lobby because I was so bored. Guess who walks by with a 'client' in tow. I said hi, but she didn't even acknowledge me. Her friend (she was with a second girl) said hi. From what I understand she got married or enganged this year (she was also a professional foreigner dater). I wonder if he knows about her past. :) 7.5 for a body 6.5 for a face.
I said number of WG's seems to have gone down a BIT! (Maybe 97% now)
Any girl who isn't with a guy in RP or part of the staff is for sale. No doubt about it.
Ash, I'm way beyond you. The fact that it's about 'winners and losers' shows where your mindset is. Trickle down economics - now I'm really having my doubts about you. An unregulated market and legal financial 'scams' is what lead us to the point we are at now and in 1929. Hence my comments about parasites – both political and financial. The only hope the world has of avoiding another great depression is if the US Government bails out failing and failed financial institutions. People like you bray on and on about the evils of socialism holding capitalism as your shining light and Holy Grail. But isn't this case in point of failed capitalism and socialism coming to save the day? Idiots in the US for the last ten years or so went on and on about how Social Security should be privatized – a super 401k put in the ‘stock market’. What these idiots fail to realize is that the Social Security program in the US came about because the stock market failed in 1929. No chances of something like that happening again, eh? Of course I shouldn’t call all these people idiots. Some are just the above mentioned parasites looking to feed on something like the privatization of the US Social Security system
It's up to individuals to decide where and how they're invested. If those individuals make mistakes and lose, it's not the fault of either the government, 'rich' people or lack of regulation. The people who complain loudest about any stock market crash are those that bet the biggest and lost the most. The same people who spent years bragging about how well their shares were doing. It's an irrefutable fact that NO-ONE loses in markets unless he was initially 1) Greedy 2) Stupid.
For your information, the source of the current crisis was Bill Clinton's legislation to - and I kid you not - prevent mortgage lenders 'discriminating' against poorer borrowers. Good ole Bill thought not having a dime to your name shouldn't stop you owning your own home - and woe betide the banks that thought otherwise. Hence they were forced to lend to poor folk (who are now bankrupt) and spin off loads of subprime bonds and their associated derivatives to cover their own risk. GW Bush tried to reverse this on several occasions but failed. But I know you won't hear a good word said about him.
Trickle down economics Bubba? It’s time to start sharpening the blade on the Guillotine, that's the ultimate result of trickle down economics
It's typical of communists, fascists and Islamic fundamentalists to threaten violence when they run out of logical arguments. And, apparently, the International Brotherhood of Taxi Drivers, Newark branch.
Scientific and social progression is much more important then economic progression in any 'advanced' society. I'd like to advance, obviously you are more interested in brightly colored stones and shiny metal.
I've misplaced my copy of Das Kapital, can you remind me which bit that's from? Then again Hitler would have been equally proud of that thinking, he knew what to do with the 'brightly colored stones and shiny metal' chasers
Now, if only the hookers could be weaned off the loathsome shiny metal.. Seriously, what on earth makes you a socialist when you've had more experience than most seeing what 70 years of it has done to a country? You know socialism sucks, that's why you earn your $ in the world's richest, free-est country and spend it in a basket case of a country. I rest my case.
Why spread yer legs for half, when a day or two later she will probably get lucky and get 'full' price? This seems to be how they usually think, unless desperate for the money.
It seems to me they live for being able to brag to their friends that someone paid $500 for them. Even if it happens twice a year.
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Ash is as clueless about the p4p scene in the Ukraine as he is the US economic/politican scene. So does that count? :D
And it's actually just economics, not micro, if it was micro we'd be talking about something like umm, RP ho's.
As most could see I was trying to let this thread die. But just like the nonsense you posted about the cause of the Great Depression I also couldn't let Ash's nonsense go uncorrected. Ash2 might be reading what Ash wrote and with his easily brainwashed mind believe it. And another easily fed information zombie would be born, and that's just wrong.
Now that it's term time, and a new academic year, what do we have in the way of newbies at RP?
Who's up to date on this? Cruiser, care to share your wisdom on something you DO know something about?
Come on now, don't be shy :)
I have been meeting women through singles. Ru, with the first meeting in a cafe. Today for the first time, I tried to make arrangements for a first meeting at my apartment. The girl insisted that I meet her downstairs and pay her there before we went upstairs.
This arrangement seems designed to allow her to hand off the money immediately to her friends below. I declined.
Do any of you have any comment on this type of arrangement. I realize that Kiev is not Las Vegas, but I did not expect this. It seems to easier for the girl to take the money and simply leave with her friends.
Thanks for any experienced advice.
Moliere
Doctor_Skank
10-12-08, 19:24
The girl insisted that I meet her downstairs and pay her there before we went upstairs.
This arrangement seems designed to allow her to hand off the money immediately to her friends below. I declined.
Do any of you have any comment on this type of arrangement. I realize that Kiev is not Las Vegas, but I did not expect this. It seems to easier for the girl to take the money and simply leave with her friends.
Thanks for any experienced advice.
MoliereI also prefer to pay in the apartment or even afterwards, but that won't always fly. She probably wanted to make sure you had the money... who knows what kind of experiences she's had before.
In any case, even though not ideal, I probably would have paid her. I have never had a girl run away on me (knock on wood). Has anyone here had a girl actually RUN AWAY with the money?
AColonizer
10-12-08, 20:34
You were right, Moliere!
Good service means reciprocal trust. When girls want just to cheat men, they invent a lot of sweet lies. When there is a reciprocal trust, sometimes but not always, men can pay after service. This is the right and well-known behaviour. Different behaviour means fraud per 95% cases.
Never give money to mamascka or "friend" and never give money outside own flat.
What could have happenned? A lot of bad stories, for example before she agreed to make unprotected blowjobs, after she would refuse to make them, so you will get no service and you will loose your money!
In general, prostitutes in Kiev are not professional. I tested a lot of phone numbers that I found in www.flirt.com.ua and in the most important Ukrainian prostitution sites, and I seldom get a professional service. In 95% cases prostitutes in Kiev are free-lance prostitutes, the worse prostitutes, that come just to cheat customers, to get money, to waste time and to have very little sex. They don't mind to go again to the same customer because they always find new silly customers.
Moreover, I am not sure the Ukrainian recession can decrease pussy price. All of us know that Pussy is the new world commodity.
I have been meeting women through singles. Ru, with the first meeting in a cafe. Today for the first time, I tried to make arrangements for a first meeting at my apartment. The girl insisted that I meet her downstairs and pay her there before we went upstairs.
This arrangement seems designed to allow her to hand off the money immediately to her friends below. I declined.
Do any of you have any comment on this type of arrangement. I realize that Kiev is not Las Vegas, but I did not expect this. It seems to easier for the girl to take the money and simply leave with her friends.
Thanks for any experienced advice.
Moliere
Explorer69
10-12-08, 20:58
I have never had a girl run away on me (knock on wood). Has anyone here had a girl actually RUN AWAY with the money?I experienced that in Washington DC!
Yeah AC, it's brand new - ever read this newly published book called the bible?
Moreover, I am not sure the Ukrainian recession can decrease pussy price. All of us know that Pussy is the new world commodity.
Doc - all. I have simple rule for dealing with pro's, upscale or street walkers, they get the money just before the act. This is the only way it should be. You are still risking lousy performance but at least you are still getting the product. :) Out of all the pro's I have experience in the Ukraine not one has asked for the money until after. Actually technically none of them has ever asked because I've always paid them just as they were leaving. If a girl is so spooked due to a bad experience that she won't get paid you really think you are going to have a good time?
Has anyone here had a girl actually RUN AWAY with the money?
Yes, it's called divorce.
That reminds me of a funny quote about the current financial crisis. Overheard on the trading floor: "This is worse than divorce. I've lost 50% of my net worth and I've still got my wife.."
I haved used GIA many times over the last nearly 4 years without incident. That streak and my business with them ended today. I called earlier to see who was available. At first I had a hard time getting through and my message was ignored. I finally get through to someone who tells me to call a number not listed on their site. This exhange was rushed and I got hung up upon when I wanted to ask something. Bad sign. I then call the new number several times before I get through to a nasty excuse for a person. I get a bad additude from the start and it became worse for for simply asking who is available at a certain time. For some reason she expected me to know who was around or something. I tried explaining I was an existing customer and that I had recently changed telephone numbers. Didn't help. Anyway, of all the ones on the site only a few were available and it was like pulling teeth getting information. Then I started getting questioned in such a way that led me to believe that they did not want my business and I finally hung up. I don't know what to make of this. Maybe the operator has bad PMS or whatever, but what I was put through was unreal. What the hell happened to them? Are they under new ownership? First the crazy price hikes and no cuts since the HRN is back down, not this shit attitude. It was classic Soviet-era customer service at its best.
What are the tested alternatives for someone who does not want to go to RP? The dating chat sites have been unrealiable for me. Comments, suggestions? I am here in Kiev for two or so more weeks and can't face the prospects of watching TV or playing XBox games each night- alone. HELP.
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I haved used GIA many times over the last nearly 4 years without incident. That streak and my business with them ended today. I called earlier to see who was available. At first I had a hard time getting through and my message was ignored. I finally get through to someone who tells me to call a number not listed on their site. This exhange was rushed and I got hung up upon when I wanted to ask something. Bad sign. I then call the new number several times before I get through to a nasty excuse for a person. I get a bad additude from the start and it became worse for for simply asking who is available at a certain time. For some reason she expected me to know who was around or something. I tried explaining I was an existing customer and that I had recently changed telephone numbers. Didn't help. Anyway, of all the ones on the site only a few were available and it was like pulling teeth getting information. Then I started getting questioned in such a way that led me to believe that they did not want my business and I finally hung up. I don't know what to make of this. Maybe the operator has bad PMS or whatever, but what I was put through was unreal. What the hell happened to them? Are they under new ownership? First the crazy price hikes and no cuts since the HRN is back down, not this shit attitude. It was classic Soviet-era customer service at its best.
What are the tested alternatives for someone who does not want to go to RP? The dating chat sites have been unrealiable for me. Comments, suggestions? I am here in Kiev for two or so more weeks and can't face the prospects of watching TV or playing XBox games each night- alone. HELP.
[Email address deleted by Admin]
EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited to remove email addresses in the text. Please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. Thanks!Subject to your negotiating skills, you will find something you like at sensible money and probably no more than GIA. Plus in my experience MUCH better to see what your getting beforehand and test the chemistry etc. I will never 'go blind' again.
That is too funny. ;)
Try going to one of the dozen or so apartments in the center.
Stripclubs.
Semi pro and pro clubs like Arena.
Hey, ever since 112 closed is their a club that took up the semi pro slack?
Is this your first time in Kyiv?
Mauriceyep
10-21-08, 17:45
Hey, ever since 112 closed is their a club that took up the semi pro slack?I was 3 weeks ago in Kiev ... 112 is open.
There were only a few people in this club, but also Arena was almost empty.
True there is a club where 112 used to be, but it is not 112. 112 closed and a new club opened there unless that club renamed itself 112.
Still miss popcorn night at 111, Dr S? ;)
Doctor_Skank
10-22-08, 13:08
True there is a club where 112 used to be, but it is not 112. 112 closed and a new club opened there unless that club renamed itself 112.
Still miss popcorn night at 111, Dr S? ;)I mostly miss the 22 grivny half-liter cosmopolitans. It was impossible not to get drunk at that place.
Don't get me started. 111 in the day was Xanadu.
Hopefully the opening of 113 will coincide with the full force of Ukraine's economic collapse. And barely of age girls will use the full force of their strappy stiletto sandals, halter tops and pert chests to vie for our attention..
Hopefully the opening of 113 will coincide with the full force of Ukraine's economic collapse. And barely of age girls will use the full force of their strappy stiletto sandals, halter tops and pert chests to vie for our attention..
Can't wait. Every cloud has a solver lining, even the econpmy going to shit!
Hopefully the opening of 113 will coincide with the full force of Ukraine's economic collapse. And barely of age girls will use the full force of their strappy stiletto sandals, halter tops and pert chests to vie for our attention..And to think, I was so pissed off with Bernanke everytime he took a bit off the interest rates, undermining our precious resources. He is my hero now.
Thank you! Thank you!
Bez Bezarra
10-24-08, 07:00
Hey, yesterday driving aorund, I saw one exchange bank selling hrivnas for US dollars at the rate of 580gr/$1!
That's by far the highest I ever remember, going back as far as 2000. And its been going up every day, in correlation with the worldwide economic collapse.
My 200 grivnas for one hour with 18 year old beginner super tight slobbering wonderful BBBJ Anya at Yana's cat house is going A LONG WAY now!!!
Of course, that feeling is gonna quickly wear off Monday when i wake up in Malibu and see 40% of my portfolio has vanished into Bernanke's Wall Street black hole.
And the worst part that NOBODY EVER talks about, is that all this principle cash that disappered out of every dumb schmuck's account, including mine, didn't actually cease to exist. IT DID end up in someone's pocket, mainly the exec's and traders that keep making money on every transaction, good or bad, high or low, sell or buy, they get their commissions and bonuses and parachutes and retirements and and and and, oh yeah, AND WE GET THE SHAFT.
Welcome to hell. (I mean capitalism at its finest)
I guess I should say, welcome to 1929-1934!
Hasn't anybody figured out that history ALWAYS repeats itself. What comes around goes around, what goes up must come..........oh you get the picture!
Well methinks there'll be some nice little real estate opportunities in K-ville.. say, this time next year?? Assuming my Polish portfolio doesn't evaporate first! :)
580 !!!! I guess you mean 5.80
Its gone over 6 around here now.
Ash property is not as boyant but its not nose dived either just leveled, reason being the mortgage ownership thing here is still not in full flow, so most still own for cash, so no need to bail, they will just sit it out ;)
but 100% sure the $10k apartments are long long gone esp in Kiev.
Q, apartment prices leveled off last year in December, they have been in a small but steady decline since then. The government has been trying everything they can to keep hyper inflation in check. The IMF also just loaned Ukraine $16.5 bil this Sunday to keep the banking industry from collapsing. I think it will buy them 2 more months, then it's man the lifeboats.
Q, apartment prices leveled off last year in December, they have been in a small but steady decline since then. The government has been trying everything they can to keep hyper inflation in check. The IMF also just loaned Ukraine $16.5 bil this Sunday to keep the banking industry from collapsing. I think it will buy them 2 more months, then it's man the lifeboats.
Just a quick note to make sure I must go outside my front door and see whats happening from time to time, I defer to your so obvious greater knowledge to me.................... what the hell do I know about property ownership in Ukraine? ahh that's right I leave that to the wife! :)
Doctor_Skank
10-28-08, 15:15
Well methinks there'll be some nice little real estate opportunities in K-ville.. say, this time next year?? Assuming my Polish portfolio doesn't evaporate first! :)Question is, will you want Ukrainian property?
No. Not really. Better to spend the money on Ukrainian girls.
Q, I have a 6" thick stack of papers that say I'm a little better informed about the Kyiv real estate market then you. I've been tracking it since 2004 and not as a hobby. The last 6 months is just conjecture because I don't have any hard data in my possession but I feel safe saying the market hasn't been going up. The real estate and construction professionals I have been conferring with the last few years also confirm this. But if it makes you feel better and to avoid another dreadful real estate argument/discussion I will agree that you are completely right or I should say that your wife is right. How’s the steel market in the Ukraine, that popping right along too? ;)
Dr S, I was seriously searching for an apartment the summer of 2005 and found a 3 room Soviet with a Western remodel studio for $110k. It was over by Artema. But then I asked myself that same question - do I really want to own an apartment in Kyiv? I could have flipped it for 3x it's value after a quickie remodel of the 3 room but then I asked myself, why do I want to bother flipping real estate in Kyiv. So I remained a seasonal renter. :)
Oh bugger, I've only gone and started you all off again.. Sorry guys!
And by the way, when I say real estate opportunity I mean purchasing a kvartira that comes with the dyev included. She cooks, sucks and fucks and is grateful that you don't make her homeless ;)
Doctor_Skank
10-28-08, 23:27
Oh bugger, I've only gone and started you all off again.. Sorry guys!
And by the way, when I say real estate opportunity I mean purchasing a kvartira that comes with the dyev included. She cooks, sucks and fucks and is grateful that you don't make her homeless ;)Let me ask another question Ash... why would you want a regular Ukrainian girlfriend? I'm serious.
I think they are super sexy and hyper fuckable and all that, but I wouldn't want to call one "my girl" for more than a day or two a month.
Russian girls are another story. Five or six days a month for them. :)
Just out of interest does Ukraine (finally?) have a land registry that enables one to track the prices at which property sales are transacted?
Skank, I'm not sure if a girl who came with the apartment would legally count as a girlfriend. I think the technical term here is 'chattel'....
Seriously though - why not? 'Regular' does not mean 'exclusive', right? ;) They're a breed apart, certainly - wily, flipping from hot to cold, very feminine, often entertaining, often a pain in the ass... as long as we men continue to be visually driven, Ukrainian girls will do very well with us!
I really don't have much experience of Russian girls per se so can't comment. You seem to prefer them by quite some margin from what I gather?
Doctor_Skank
10-28-08, 23:58
Skank, I'm not sure if a girl who came with the apartment would legally count as a girlfriend. I think the technical term here is 'chattel'....
Seriously though - why not? 'Regular' does not mean 'exclusive', right? ;) They're a breed apart, certainly - wily, flipping from hot to cold, very feminine, often entertaining, often a pain in the ass... as long as we men continue to be visually driven, Ukrainian girls will do very well with us!
I really don't have much experience of Russian girls per se so can't comment. You seem to prefer them by quite some margin from what I gather?In my opinion Russian girls are superior in every way except looks. Ukrainian are top drawer and at least as good as Russian in the appearance department.
But yeah, you're right. There is no such thing as exclusive when dating/screwing Ukrainian/Russian girls. God bless them.
Amen.
Would you care to elaborate on how Russian girls are better? And by the way, do you consider girls from the East of Ukraine to be Russian?
Doctor_Skank
10-29-08, 00:25
Amen.
Would you care to elaborate on how Russian girls are better? And by the way, do you consider girls from the East of Ukraine to be Russian?Well, many girls in eastern Ukraine consider THEMSELVES to be Russian... but certainly not all.
Differences between Russian and Ukrainian. They are very similar in many ways, and the subject deserves a more substantial post than this, certainly requiring more in depth analytical thought... but these are the points that come to mind spontaneously:
Russian girls are more worldy/cosmopolitan/up to date
Russian girls are less superficial
Russian girls are more faithful
Russian girls are more sexually open, with fewer hang ups
Russian girls are cleaner
Russian girls have more self-confidence
I'll admit my research pool is considerably larger in Russia than Ukraine and largely based on Moscow/St.Petersburg girls vs. Kiev/Odessan girls, so my data may be skewed. So far however, that is the way it has played out for me.
Basically Russian girls are more western? In a good way rather than the crappy feminist way.
The 'cleaner' bit is interesting. East European girls in general tend to have really smelly feet I find. I wonder if it's because they wear cheap heels and boots all the time?
Q, I have a 6" thick stack of papers that say I'm a little better informed about the Kyiv real estate market then you. I've been tracking it since 2004 and not as a hobby. The last 6 months is just conjecture because I don't have any hard data in my possession but I feel safe saying the market hasn't been going up. The real estate and construction professionals I have been conferring with the last few years also confirm this. But if it makes you feel better and to avoid another dreadful real estate argument/discussion I will agree that you are completely right or I should say that your wife is right. How’s the steel market in the Ukraine, that popping right along too?
:)
As I said I defer to you obvious greater knowledge a pile of paperwork goes a long way.............but I know on all our rentals we still get on average over 10% PA against the peak property price........ I don’t think that’s too shabby do you? Especially if you compare it to say the stock market?
If you read my post it actually said it has leveled not gone up and thats what it has done, as I also pointed out very few people will need to have a fire sale as they wont have a huge mortages killing them, so therefore if the prices do drop it wont be a crash like say in the USA or UK.
Steel is really great, in fact silver linings do happen I am making a shed load out of the price collapse as I have contracts that are fixed priced for 3 years that started earlier this year, and I buy on spot! The collapse had nothing to do with the russian oil collapse as someone on here said it would though, but other markets forces ...... But I guess that’s me being a half whit as well? I am sure you will tell me I do that wrong also as you have a magazine that says its not the way its done ;)
As to property and whats good investement and bad, we plan to sell our portfolio in about a years time.... wait till 2012 and then we will be able to buy California the way the USA is about to go ;) (BTW Cruiser thats a joke I know we wont be able to do that as mexico will have beat me to it!!!!)
My idea of a forum is to air you own thoughts and ideas. Not to demand everyone sees it your way........ or no way.
Ash I think the good Doctor has it right.
But bear in mind Ukraine as you know is not Kiev, if you ask most girls in the east of ukraine they will tell you they are Russian.
And as such in my opinion (until Crusier tells me I am wrong again as he does not agree with me) he's correct Russian girls are more fun... etc etc... perhaps religion has something to do with it also? as the west of Ukraine is all catholic.
DJ FourMoney
10-29-08, 12:13
Well, many girls in eastern Ukraine consider THEMSELVES to be Russian... but certainly not all.
Differences between Russian and Ukrainian. They are very similar in many ways, and the subject deserves a more substantial post than this, certainly requiring more in depth analytical thought... but these are the points that come to mind spontaneously:
Russian girls are more worldy/cosmopolitan/up to date
Russian girls are less superficial
Russian girls are more faithful
Russian girls are more sexually open, with fewer hang ups
Russian girls are cleaner
Russian girls have more self-confidence
I'll admit my research pool is considerably larger in Russia than Ukraine and largely based on Moscow/St.Petersburg girls vs. Kiev/Odessan girls, so my data may be skewed. So far however, that is the way it has played out for me.
Interesting....
Is this based on Escorts or Non-Pros???
And are we talking about women born after 1980???
Dr S, you sound just like any Russian girl I would call in Russia while I'm wintering in Kyiv. The aggregate of the conversation about Ukrainian girls from a Russian girls perspective is, 'crazy sl uts from the south.' I really don't find much difference between them. My Russian dating pool comes mostly from dyevuskha's in the US.
Ash, girls with smelly feet? You met a Russian/Ukrainian girl who didn't take a shower before she had sex with you? You need to set your target a little higher then Odessa port ho's. :P (it's just a joke)
Q, I corrected you when you said prices have just started to decline, that's not true. That trend started the first of the year. The Ukrainian steel market is tanking due to lack of global demand. If you have locked in contracts (that won't be canceled) and can buy steel on current deflated market prices you are indeed a lucky man.
You plan on selling your real estate in Ukraine in a years time? Buy high and sell low? Any apartments in Kyiv? ;)
My idea of a forum is to air you own thoughts and ideas. Not to demand everyone sees it your way........ or no way.
No, you are wrong - the purpose of a forum is to provide a place for me to bait you into expressing an opinion so that I can contradict you, beat you over mercilessly over the head with my opinion and publicly bend you to my way of thinking..... isn't it? ;) (Just kidding and having a jab at Cruiser D).... (Sorry D, I am weak and could not resist the temptation.)
Ash I think the good Doctor has it right.
But bear in mind Ukraine as you know is not Kiev, if you ask most girls in the east of ukraine they will tell you they are Russian.
And as such in my opinion (until Crusier tells me I am wrong again as he does not agree with me) he's correct Russian girls are more fun... etc etc... perhaps religion has something to do with it also? as the west of Ukraine is all catholic.
Couple of data points to support your position. I know a girl who lives in Moscow (not a Ho) who was born in Kharkov in 1982. She carries a Ukrainian passport but considers herself Russian. In fact, she went to a Ukrainian speaking school but spoke Russian at home with her family. Had she lived less than a kilometer away, she would have gone to a school that taught in Russian. Accident in geography.
I met a girl in Kiev in September who was fresh off the bus from Lviv (Lvov). Yikes, talk about a little rough around the edges. But she was a sweetie in a really wholesome farm girl sort of way. I made the mistake of asking if she was Catholic or Orthodox and received a 30 minute lecture on theology (she was Catholic) right before she screwed my brains out as she was a Salon girl that my friend had brought to the apartment for me.
Back to the point - I would not say that she was unclean, but it was clear that she had not yet embraced "fancy city type toiletries" of her more cosmopolitan colleagues. Probably a fact of economics. And sexual hangups? Oh boy - more than just a few. I will leave it at that.
In general, I wonder if Ukrainians are still suffering from a bit of a complex that's rooted in economic disadvantage (when compared with Russia) which spills over into their sense of worldliness and sophistication. I have actually only been to Ukraine once so I am hardly an authority on the place, but my initial impression was that Russians tend to be quite well traveled compared to their Ukrainian cousins. This may explain some of Skank's opinions of Russian girls being more cosmopolitan and self confident.
Having said that, I will say that the wildest, most depraved sexual experiences I have had in Moscow have been with girls who told me that they were Ukrainian - so "go figure".
Oh - and I almost forgot. Last June I sponsored a Provincanka from Siberia to stay with me in Moscow for a week of fun and games. She told me that her father was Ukrainian and whenever her mother wanted to admonish her for any of her careless or promiscuous behavior, she would blame it on her Ukrainian roots!!!!!! :)
Gentleman Travel
10-29-08, 16:37
I don't have enough data points to make a reasonable comparison myself -
frankly any girl half my age with great tits and willing to fuck me is a
priceless treasure to me, and I don't stop to smell their feet...
But one girl I was with in Kyiv expounded the theory that Ukrainians
(and I think she saw herself as Ukrainian) were genetically inferior to
Russians because so much of the best Ukrainian stock had been
removed from the gene pool by the great famine and other purges
of the upper class and intelligensia, over time.
I don't know if there is any real basis to this, or only a way of
justifying their feelings of inferiority to their Russian masters...
GT, that was empire wide, not just in the Ukraine. I don't think Stalin particularly favored any region, including Georgia. Some regions were just ‘re-educated’ more harshly and often. The educated suffered harshly everywhere in the SU.
Doctor_Skank
10-29-08, 21:13
Interesting....
Is this based on Escorts or Non-Pros???
And are we talking about women born after 1980???Based on non-pros... and girls between 18-30 years of age, averaging about 22-25 I suppose. Maybe sometime I'll use my database to put together some statistics.
I don't have enough data points to make a reasonable comparison myself.
Frankly any girl half my age with great tits and willing to fuck me is a priceless treasure to me, and I don't stop to smell their feet.
But one girl I was with in Kyiv expounded the theory that Ukrainians (and I think she saw herself as Ukrainian) were genetically inferior to Russians because so much of the best Ukrainian stock had been removed from the gene pool by the great famine and other purges of the upper class and intelligensia, over time.
I don't know if there is any real basis to this, or only a way of justifying their feelings of inferiority to their Russian masters. Ukrainian gene pool is clearly superior to Russian gene pool and this is obvious to anyone visiting these regions that appearance of ukrainian girls is superior. I will try to explain why.
1. The original Rus were in Kiev. This was the region where Slavs came from, so it has kept the original slavic character
2. Western Ukraine was Polish for hundreds of years, so appearance of girls there is closer to Polish and Polish appearance is superior to Russian because Poles are 60% slavic while Russians are 40% slavic. (by haplotype R1a distribution).
3. In Ukraine there were no mixes with Asians which took place in Russia. There were no mixes with Germans like the Germans of Volga and far fewer mixes with Tatars like the Tatars of Tatarstan. These mixes took place in Russia. So genetically the ukrainian population is more homogenous than Russian population, is more slavic although it is less homogenous slavic than Polish population.
In Eastern Ukraine, Kharkov, Lugansk girls look very much like Russian girls from Rostov na Don.
In West Ukraine, Lvov, Ternopil girls look very much like Polish girls from Krakow. In south-west Ukraine, Uzhgorod girls look like Hungarian girls while in Cernivtsi they look like Moldovan girls.
In south Ukraine there is mix with Turks especially in Crimea.
In Mariupol there is mix with Greeks.
In central Ukraine, Donbass area and Dnipropetrovsk girls look like girls in Kiev some years ago, they are totally slavic, let's say 20% Polish, 80% Russian. (hardcore Russian without mix).
In Kiev now they look 70% Polish-30% Russian because a lot of western ukrainian girls who look like Polish have arrived in Kiev.
The main difference in mentality and appearance between Russian and ukrainian girls is in reality the difference between Polish and Russian girls. Or more specifically the difference between 40% Polish-60% Russian and 100% Russian girls, that is the differences are not so great, they are smoothened because ukrainian girls are also close to Russian girls genetically. (Kiev Rus came to Russia from Kiev).
The whole issue is complicated and it does not make sense for somebody outside the slavic cultures although it is quite obvious to Slavs.
What Russian and belarus girls think about Ukrainians:
Ukrainians are sly, manipulative, have no culture, try to take advantage of you and are greedy, they want everything. Ukrainian girls have no soul, they are sold to everyone, they show their breast because they have no culture, they are primitive. Ukrainians are bad, not trustoworthy, thieves, no soul and very dangerous.
Opinion of ukrainian girls about Russians:
Russians are very bad. They impregnate ukrainian girls and leave them. They are touch, they don't care. Ukrainian girls are the best. Russian girls are gold diggers, they want money. Ukrainian girls feel love, Russian girls feel no love. Russians are better educated because they live in cities while Ukrainians lived in villages mostly. Russians have better humour and better culture. Ukrainians are poor. Ukrainians work hard, Russians only drink. Ukrainians are more dangerous. Russians are smart.
This is some of what they say. It greatly depends on the part of Ukraine because girls in Crimea love Russians and hate Ukrainians.
Odessa port hos? Hey, don't knock them, there's a recession on! Maybe one day I'll find one that doesn't actually scare me :)
Actually Ukrainians are traditionally known in Russia for their craftiness. The Russians have a saying: "When a Ukrainian comes to town, even the Jews have to watch out!" (which is exactly the sort of un PC thing Russians would say :))
Q, I corrected you when you said prices have just started to decline, that's not true. That trend started the first of the year. The Ukrainian steel market is tanking due to lack of global demand. If you have locked in contracts (that won't be canceled) and can buy steel on current deflated market prices you are indeed a lucky man.
You plan on selling your real estate in Ukraine in a years time? Buy high and sell low? Any apartments in Kyiv? ;)
Yep rock solid 3 year steel contracts and I am now buying at half price and selling for the market price from May and June ;) even better shipping has dropped by over half also :) O happy days!
It was a joke about selling up and buying all of all of California, I own one bit of real estate in California and thats enough as it just about covers costs!
Buy high sell low? we have been buying here since 2000, some we bought in Donetsk that cost $15k and now we get $2k a month rental on them.
Kiev you ask? not long ago I posted pictures of an apartment in Kiev I was offering for short term rental for fellow ISG posters, but there was not much reaction, so its back up on long term again.
The whole issue is complicated and it does not make sense for somebody outside the slavic cultures although it is quite obvious to Slavs.
No kidding, your whole post got confusing to an idiot like me half way through I got lost and had to read it again :) I guess what you meant was they have an idea, the rest of us might as well just hope we have an idea?
Actually Ukrainians are traditionally known in Russia for their craftiness. The Russians have a saying: "When a Ukrainian comes to town, even the Jews have to watch out!" (which is exactly the sort of un PC thing Russians would say :))
As you know Ash that leaves me right up the river without a paddle , I am married to a Ukrainian Jew!
How much are you renting it for Q? After three years I now find myself long term apartmentless in Kyiv.
Being from the uptight PC urban northeast of the US I always chuckle thinking about how anti semitic the mainstream is in the Ukraine. It’s so rooted in the culture I think deep down even the Jews in the Ukraine are anti semitic.
Very true, and the fact that all of Russia's oligarchs are Jewish merely adds to that feeling of resentment.
You might say the lack of political correctness is refreshing, but with the upside comes the downside - although you won't get any feminism / sexual equality nonsense you will find casual racism is pretty common and regarded as being of no consequence. Kind of like Britain in the 1970s.
Q - have you bought that 6 seater jet yet?
How much are you renting it for Q? After three years I now find myself long term apartmentless in Kyiv.
Being from the uptight PC urban northeast of the US I always chuckle thinking about how anti semitic the mainstream is in the Ukraine. It’s so rooted in the culture I think deep down even the Jews in the Ukraine are anti semitic.
The one I offered has long gone on a term to a corp renter, it was very nice 1 room, it has the lot, plasma, nice bathroom, independant heating even! it is far more than normal ukrainian "euro standard"
We have a two room perhaps comming up in Pechersk some time soon I think I will ask the boss on that ;)
Ahh anti semetic you are quite right even my other half is............. she does tell the best jokes though! ask Ash! he's met her!
Q - have you bought that 6 seater jet yet?
The Big move hasn't happnend yet, and looks it like the biggest move now will be only to Kiev so no need right now, but netjets was looking the best direction.
Cruiser just to show you an idea of the standard of our rentals heres one we have just rented out:
And yes that is a sauna in the bathroom! typical jewish princess :)
Nice place Q but I'm guessing I'd be far too 'greedy' for you. I can still get a good place on Mandarin or Madian for $70/night short term (couple of weeks)
Gentleman Travel
10-31-08, 15:37
Let me ask another question Ash... why would you want a regular Ukrainian girlfriend? I'm serious.
I think they are super sexy and hyper fuckable and all that, but I wouldn't want to call one "my girl" for more than a day or two a month.
Russian girls are another story. Five or six days a month for them. :)Well, everybody has a different cost/benefit balance, but personally I am in this for maximum sex and GFE - that is going to be more real if she is a "real" girlfriend. And frequency and reliability count for something also - the idea of having to go hunting for my pleasures every night seems rather wearing to me. Unfortunately I am not "in theatre" often enough to cultivate on-going relationships, or that would be my first choice.
I cannot understand you guys who only monger and do not enjoy "home comforts" as well. It all very well for Skank and Cruiser, who seem to travel very often and score most nights, but for most there must be long, bleak patches between nights of joy. For me, I get adequate sex 2-3 times per week always, plus that frisson of excitement from new/young/adventurous pussy whenever I travel out-of-town.
I guess it would be tough to have an EE girlfriend at home and still go on "extended business trips" to Moscow or Kyiv - she would know exactly what you are doing. But my wife or most American women would not have clue - they have no idea that you (or I) can be a babe magnet in EE, or even that EE is such a Candyland for sex-starved men.
Nice place Q but I'm guessing I'd be far too 'greedy' for you. I can still get a good place on Mandarin or Madian for $70/night short term (couple of weeks)
I plan to make it to the next super bowl blow out at RP, if your'e there we will have a chat!
For me, I get adequate sex 2-3 times per week always, plus that frisson of excitement from new/young/adventurous pussy whenever I travel out-of-town.
Glad you finally got the little lady at home to pull her weight! Tell me, do you think your extra curricular exploits gave you a certain 'aura' that she picked up on, and deep down realised she had better start making you happy? :)
Q, I should be head to Kyiv around the time of the Superbowl, so I won't be burned out from having been in country for six weeks already. I should be frisky and fresh. :)
The Big move hasn't happnend yet, and looks it like the biggest move now will be only to Kiev
Good idea. Southern Spain is really only Britain with better weather. And the hos are mainly Moroccan from what I've heard.
Now, Kiev is where a married man can have the best of both worlds.. AND you can get a half decent curry too - what more does a man need?
Q, I should be head to Kyiv around the time of the Superbowl, so I won't be burned out from having been in country for six weeks already. I should be frisky and fresh. :)
Sounds like a plan! see you there then! in the bar infront of the projector screen? mine is a stella!
Good idea. Southern Spain is really only Britain with better weather. And the hos are mainly Moroccan from what I've heard.
Now, Kiev is where a married man can have the best of both worlds.. AND you can get a half decent curry too - what more does a man need?Don't know where you get that idea... there are stacks of girls from all over the EE all along the Costa's! I'm no particular fan of Spain, but don't agree it's just the UK with more sun...and the sights & sounds are very different.
No not only Moroccan, just significantly more so than... well, Kiev. Not that there's anything wrong with them.
And by "Britain with sun" I was referring to the Costas with their legions of British expats, not the sights, sounds and culture of Grenada, Seville and Cordoba.
No not only Moroccan, just significantly more so than... well, Kiev. Not that there's anything wrong with them.
And by "Britain with sun" I was referring to the Costas with their legions of British expats, not the sights, sounds and culture of Grenada, Seville and Cordoba.
Incidentally, my favourite place in Spain (so far) has been Valencia.
I found it's easy to avoid the Brits in the Costa Del Sol if you know where not to go. If you want a slice of British culture head to Gib. When I think about it I can't think of a place in Spain I don't like. All of the regions have different charms. I noticed in the Costa Del Sol there are quite a few bordello's spread out on the major roads. And of course who hasn't been to the Fridays in Marbella? :)
I found it's easy to avoid the Brits in the Costa Del Sol if you know where not to go. If you want a slice of British culture head to Gib. When I think about it I can't think of a place in Spain I don't like. All of the regions have different charms. I noticed in the Costa Del Sol there are quite a few bordello's spread out on the major roads. And of course who hasn't been to the Fridays in Marbella? :)
What's 'Friday's' in Marbella all about?
It's a TGI Friday's in Marbella, not much to say. I've driven by it a few times but never went in. It would be a sin against the food gods to eat at such a place while in Spain.
Unlike Kiev where TGIF's is sometimes essential to survival!
The Friday's in Kyiv was the place to be 3 years ago. Now it's an easy place to meet in the center that everyone knows.
I was merely referring to the food. My appreciation for borshch, vareniki, blini and salo (ok not salo) knows no bounds. But sometimes you've just got to bite into something familiar.
Been in Kiev for 2 days now. Thought I give everyone an update.
First of all, I've been a silent member of this forum for over a year. And even met a few of you a year ago but have been reluctant and too lazy to post. This is my second time in this interesting city so I thought a share my experience this time. And if anyone wants to meet up while I'm in town drop me a PM.
Went to RP last night at around 11:40 and. The place was dead. I thought WTF? ! Did the action moved somewhere else? There were literally 10 people in the entire club. 3 girls and 7 guys. By 12:30 girls suddenly started showing up and then it was business as I remembered from a year ago.
Asking price is $300-400 for 1 night which is about same as last year but with the global recession it seems girls are quicker to lower price this time around.
One thing I have come to realize is that there are so many other resources than RP to find girls with a fraction of the price. It does take some surfing and research but there are plenty of hotties outside of RP to be had. Although the RP scene is undeniably fun. Nothing else like it in the world.
Anyway I'm here for a few more days. Drop me a PM if any of you want to meet up.
BT
Nice to see some new blood BT, keep us informed.
I'm somewhat new on the board...
I exchanged the following emails with Gia:
Hello,
I will be in Kiev once again in March next year, and I can't wait!
Actually, last time Zhannna said that she wouldn't be able to have orgasm...In next March I'd like to see one or more Gia girls who are able to have multiple orgasm :) . A screamer (a girl who screams in bed) would be even better :) Do you have any suggestions? Am I asking for too much?
Please advise.
Mike
Hello Mike,
Nice to hear again from you!
Unfortunately we don't have girls who get orgasms.. Sorry.
Gia
Any thoughts? Has anybody brought Gia girls to orgasm before, of course?
Mike
Please note that orgasms are charged at 25% over and above the normal Gia rate. Failure to pay the surcharge will result in the absense of orgasm.
Regards,
Gia
FYI,
Interesting to see that Gia dropped it's prices. Girls that were $250 are now $200 and those that were $200 are now $160. That is about a 20% drop.
RP prices seems to be dropping a bit as well lately. Looks like the global economic crisis as well as the recent strength of the dollar in Ukraine is finally being reflected in this industry.
BT
GIA girls are high volume and a bit umm, used. I don't think orgasms are on the agenda, for either party involved.
GIA girls are high volume and a bit umm, used. I don't think orgasms are on the agenda, for either party involved.I have to agree, Gia girls are used they barey change and when they do change previous girls are back again. I haven't seen Rita glad to know I had 1st dives lol well from GIA hehe
I am very much enjoying the downswing in the grivna exchange rate. Just a few months ago, a 600 grivna per hour lady cost approximately $120 per hour (5 grivna to the dollar).
Today, that very same 600 grivnas now costs me $85 (at 7 grivna to the dollar). I expect it will drop even more.
The only question now is when ladies will once again start quoting rates in dollars as they did two or so years ago.
Ladies make most of their money off locals, not foreign mongers. It should be interesting to see how much the financial crisis affects locals and how many foreigners now have the cash reserves to spend and time to travel here or anywhere else to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh.
By the way, I went dinner at a very nice local place with a lovely lady tonight. It was almost full but no lines out the door as it was in the past. The other, cheaper, local places seem a bit less peopled and less lively. If you are a monger with money very good times here may be just ahead.
I now am being called to to lick up my dessert or maybe it is to provide the cream filling!
I am very much enjoying the downswing in the grivna exchange rate. I don't often get calls from previous girlfriends out of the blue telling me they want to get together again. Having gotten more than a couple in the last few weeks, I was certainly curious about the phenomenon. Like many on the this forum, I concluded it's related to finance. Specifically:
p = probability that an old girlfriend will call on a given day
X1 = exchange rate in grivna per USD on the day you last saw the girl
X2 = exchange rate in grivna per USD today
n = number of days since you last saw the girl
Then,
p= k [(X2 - X1)**2 ] / n
k is a constant related to how you treated the girl in the first place.
I've been chanting '1998' for several months. :)
The past 2 years the snobbishness and standofishness of ukrainian women towards foreigners was too becoming much!
They were stating to show total indifference, even contempt towards anyone not rich Ukrainian!
Nothing like a nice international financial crisis to turn things around.
Street Sleuth
12-01-08, 16:10
Nolies,
You are spot on - the masses of money thrown at Ukraine the past few years lead to Ukrainian girls looking at European/American men as almost being poor - it was if they were disappointed to learn you weren't Ukrainian, as you thus wouldn't be able to spoil them with ridiculous amounts of cash/gifts.
The situation is, naturally, changing. It will probably take a few more months to really settle in upon what are a rather stubborn people that they aren't as rich as they seem to think (many recent conversations with locals have revealed their concept of the economic crisis as a short term, 30 day problem - they seem to think all will be back to normal in a month or so!).
6 months of $1 = 7+ griven will change that.
Throw in a very cold winter, with gas cutoff from Russia, and, well, you get the picture....
Street Sleuth
12-01-08, 16:13
Moliere,
I've been getting the same calls :)
What is probably even more chilling to them is my indifference towards them (payback for their indifference in different economic times....)
Doctor_Skank
12-01-08, 16:21
It will probably take a few more months to really settle in upon what are a rather stubborn people that they aren't as rich as they seem to think (many recent conversations with locals have revealed their concept of the economic crisis as a short term, 30 day problem - they seem to think all will be back to normal in a month or so!).
The ignorance of the local biznessmen is indeed hilarious. Proves once again that they were never business men in the first place, but more like thugs.
It'll take a month or two for reality to set in among the dyevs, but sooner or later they'll realize their sponsored lives are living on borrowed time. At least I hope so... I will be happy to be the shoulder to cry on... :)
I wrote about an Odessan gf I screwed the day before she got married... she says her wages are down to about $150/month... and she is one of the lucky ones. Also made it no secret that she was up for another poke if I hit town again.... and she is a so-called "good girl"!
The ignorance of the local biznessmen is indeed hilarious. Proves once again that they were never business men in the first place, but more like thugs.
Dr You are so right, there are so many "businessmen" here and many now have that o shit did I really need that diamond encrusted Vertu in the summer look on there face......... I know at least 3 of them, and they are for sure fiddling whilst Rome burns as they have not a clue what to do!
Actually the girls (players) were just looking down on the older sexpats. Who had spent the last umm, what 12-13 years abusing them.
The older sexpats? Ah, you mean the pioneers :)
Doctor_Skank
12-04-08, 09:12
The older sexpats? Ah, you mean the pioneers :)I think he meant the pervs... :)
Yeah I know I was just trying to cut them some slack. It seems a shame that appreciating 20 year old hotties is fine when you're in your 30s (or 40s) but as soon as you get to your 50s it becomes 'pervy'.
Still, money always clears up any little misunderstandings between the generations :)
Explorer69
12-06-08, 14:16
It seems a shame that appreciating 20 year old hotties is fine when you're in your 30s (or 40s) but as soon as you get to your 50s it becomes 'pervy'.
Still, money always clears up any little misunderstandings between the generations :)I am in my 50ies. Most 20 year old hotties prefer you to be under 40. However, I am surprised by the number of girls that say they prefer the man to be 50 or at least much older than themselves. Of course money helps a lot to cause this "preferance". But for some girls it is true, others don't care as long as they are treated well. They regard older guys to be more predictable. But to get contact and catch freebies becomes more difficult. But once they have been caught, it is no problem). At this age, however, semipros or sponsorship is usually the best way!
Well, all girls are secretly in love with their father anyway!
It seems a shame that appreciating 20 year old hotties is fine when you're in your 30s (or 40s) but as soon as you get to your 50s it becomes 'pervy'.
Still, money always clears up any little misunderstandings between the generations :)
Hey - I resemble that remark.;)
Gentleman Travel
12-09-08, 16:09
Well, all girls are secretly in love with their father anyway!
I know what you mean, Ash, it is a common cultural phenomena.
But I wonder if it is true in Russia, where so many fathers have been absentee or otherwise not great role models.
I think it is just a genetic interest in powerful (i.e. mature) men.
LifeSavour
12-19-08, 11:02
Messaged a girl on love. Mail. Ru
8 066 526 8623 was replied
Called, got Ira from www.kievprivat.com/ She speaks english. Alexandria does not work until 7pm and she gets 1000 uah / hr was what Ira said.
I countered that there is a crisis! She said WE have other, cheaper girls.
I looked. They have MANY girls, and the photos are REAL!
'because no one would put up such 'doggy' photos if they were fakes!
(but I like dogs! )
Ps. Ira seemed nice, it was fun talking to her!
AColonizer
12-28-08, 21:52
I repeat some easy matters:
Maybe pictures are fake or photoshopped or old, and you have to analyze pictures very much to understand what is "strange" or "wrong".
If text in English, this means expensive and unprofessional service.
In fact, they always lie about prices with foreigners! There's the global recession, but I am starting to see Slavic women cheating Slavic men too!
Part-time prostitutes don't mean passion sex at all!
In former Soviet Union, when a woman is 25, then she is old: the best working age is between 1X (I can't write, but it is normal in Slavic culture background) and 20/21, the so-so working age is between 21 and 24, more than 24 means "granny".
Also the profile age is often fake, for the reason I explained above.
That's strange but true, more women are old, and more women are expensive.
I never suggest to try more-than-24-years-old women because they are not beautiful like under-21-years-old women and they are very annoyed by their lives.
The last but not the least, maybe the most important matter: Slavic teen women are very experienced in sex and they don't need to learn anything else about sex, therefore men shouldn't go with more-than-24-years-old women.
Messaged a girl on love. Mail. Ru
8 066 526 8623 was replied
Called, got Ira from www.kievprivat.com/ She speaks english. Alexandria does not work until 7pm and she gets 1000 uah / hr was what Ira said.
I countered that there is a crisis! She said WE have other, cheaper girls.
I looked. They have MANY girls, and the photos are REAL!
'because no one would put up such 'doggy' photos if they were fakes!
(but I like dogs! )
Ps. Ira seemed nice, it was fun talking to her!
Colon,
With your extreme generalizations, it is no wonder you are such a loser and a huge whiner. I am not sure just why I am replying to you but someone has to say something about your constant complaints about conditions here.
Let me tell you some of the best sex I have had here has been with women in the 28-35 age range. Some of the worst has been in the 18-22 range.
That's not to say that I have not had great sex with an 18 year-old. I have and still smile about it. I have also had horrible sex with a 30 year-old.
I simply don't worry about age or most any other thing. I want to have a good time and I do. I put no artificial barriers to my enjoyment as you seem to do all the time. I also try to negotiate the lowest price and then when we reach that bottom line for both parties we either go for it or not. I even sometimes walk away if it seems much too excessive. I don't cry as you do about money or about anything else.
I simply want to enjoy my life here and not be a huge baby crying about all things as you do.
If things are so bad here for you all the time, just stay at home with mama. Leave it to the rest of us to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh of Ukraine in all its glory.
George Red
01-09-09, 19:16
FYI,
Interesting to see that Gia dropped it's prices. Girls that were $250 are now $200 and those that were $200 are now $160. That is about a 20% drop.
RP prices seems to be dropping a bit as well lately. Looks like the global economic crisis as well as the recent strength of the dollar in Ukraine is finally being reflected in this industry.
BTDear friends
How long time it will last to understood that it is a lot lot of money anything more than 30-50e a fuck in ucrain?
Locals fuck for free or giving hope and some 150-300hrivnia[me also many times]
Ok. You don't speak Russian but you just see what is real world outside there
Girls already know
Don't overpaid them, nobody else will do it
Thanks
Dear friends
How long time it will last to understood that it is a lot lot of money anything more than 30-50e a fuck in ucrain?
Locals fuck for free or giving hope and some 150-300hrivnia[me also many times]
Ok. You don't speak Russian but you just see what is real world outside there
Girls already know
Don't overpaid them, nobody else will do it
ThanksI completely agree with you. Do you think local ukrainian can afford an escort?? Of course not. They still have their regular blowjob for $5 or $10 buck. Escort ask more because they know you can't speak their language and ask a street ***** from a poor neigbourhood.
here is an article originally submitted to kiev post for publication. it was declined by the managing editor.
ukraine is now the sex capital of europe!
prostitution, sex tourism, corruption at the highest levels, and the internet in kiev
by richard buckley
there is a booming internet business in kiev ukraine, this business generates millions of dollars annually for the owners, provides “retirement funds” for government officials and brings in millions of dollars into the economy. it is internet based prostitution using the internet to reach thousands of western buyers. this business is growing by our calculations at 20-30% a month. there are a plethora of internet sites advertising prostitutes directly focused at western buyers. you can use any search engine and obtain 100’s of these sites. although this is not something new, the focus is now on western men and sex tourists from foreign countries. it is able to exist due to large payoffs to high level government officials, the police and law enforcement who’s job it is to crack down on these sites. we take a close look into this daylight mainstream business which makes millions of dollars a year.
first of all it is not a crime to be arrested as a prostitute in kiev. the fine is about 20 euro, and akin to a traffic ticket. it is more of an inconvenience then a crime. since there are no real penalties for the prostitute there is little motivation for them to stop and is easy for them to justify with the income of $50-$150 an hour.
as for the agencies there are much bigger stakes, if an agency has 40 girls, each girl works 2-3 hours a day and pays the agency 50% of what they make of $200/hr (average) the agency makes $360,000 a month. this story is about just such an agency.
the agency known as gia (www.gia.com.ua and http://www.gia-escort.com/ ) is just such an agency focused at western men. gia openly advertises itself in england on many websites to sex tourist and provides sex junkets to ukraine. they advertise that the pictures of the girls are real photos (and this is true to our experience) and most of their girls speak english well. gia has been around for years and operates openly, does not try to conceal anything, their girls all have webpages with a “menu” of services, prices and a bio with enticing introduction.
we went undercover to try and expose this operation and this is what we got. we rented a flat by the day in kiev, called gia’s telephone number from their website and spoke with diana. she was friendly, spoke english perfectly, and was very helpful. we asked her to make an appointment with one girl we saw on the site and dianna said this girl was not available today, so we quickly chose another. dianna asked my name and told us she would call the girl to confirm, asked me how long i wanted her for, what time i wanted her to arrive and where she would be going. then dianna said she would call me back in a few minutes. shortly there after the phone rang and dianna told me the girl was available and would be there at the appointed 14:00, asked me the address, door access code and flat number which i gave her.
at 14:05 the bell rang at the door and i opened it to find the girl we ordered standing in front of me wearing white jeans, a pink top and pink “bebe” sunglasses, high pink and white striped pumps with a big black bag. i have to say she was gorgeous. about 170 cm tall, with blonde hair, grey eyes and carried herself like a model. we will call her “v”( http://www.gia-escort.com/girl/vlada) . “v” greeted me and asked if my name was john (my adopted name to protect my real identity), i told her it was and i asked her in. “v” was smiling and proceeded to start chatting. her english was good, not perfect but good. she asked me where i was from, how long i had been in kiev and how long i would be staying. “v” then asked if i understood the rates and payment and what kind of services i had in mind. i told her i did understand the rates but i did not want sexual services, that i was a writer and was doing an article on sex for money in kiev and just wanted to talk to her. “v” became very quiet. i told her it was an interview, i would pay her for her time and she would be safe, i would not use her name. “v” thought about it for a minute and told me i would have to pay $750 for the interview and it would be one hour. i told her this was a lot of money since i had only planned for 1 hour of her time. her response was that i would pay $750 or she would leave. i agreed and asked her to make herself comfortable and asked if she wanted anything from the kitchen. “v” said some champagne (there was a bottle on the table) which i opened. she asked for the money and i went to my wallet and got it, handed it to her and “v” placed it in her bra which didn’t have much room in it anyway. “v” now smiled and was much more outgoing.
as i was filing her glass, “v” started to talk. “v” said she was married to an american, and had a 1 year old daughter. “v” said she was from nikolaev originally and lived in kiev for about 3 years. i said i was surprised she was married and had a baby. “v” said she was separated from her husband and she did this work to support herself. i asked her why she was separated and she said her husband discovered that she does this work and she left him. she said she had done this before and she was lucky to work at such a good agency and make so much money. she would find another rich man to support her soon. i asked if this was her goal and she said yes it was and it would not be that difficult. maybe two or three men even. she seemed to have a plan already in motion.
i brought the bottle and her glass into the living room and sat next to her on the couch. i asked her if i could turn on my tape recorder and she looked uncomfortable again. i told her i needed it for my notes and i would destroy the tape after i was done with it. “v” agreed and asked if she could smoke, i told her sure and got an ashtray from the kitchen. she took some cigarettes from her bag and lit one, her bag was filled with different sexy costumes, she seemed prepared for all occasions. she finished the glass of champagne and her cigarette, i filled her glass again.
i asked her if she likes what she does and “v” said she likes sex very much, getting paid for it is great, and said she could not make such money any other way and she wanted to be independent.
i speak fluent russian but wanted her to believe i did not so we spoke english all the time but i could understand her when she did not have english words which she filled in with russian to answer the questions.
i told her i wanted to ask her questions and she should answer them so i could structure our conversation, she said “ok”.
tell me about gia? gia is a great agency, they mostly only get western men looking for english speaking girls, they charge much more then the other agencies i worked for and they keep me really busy and we get good protection from the police.
how does gia get their clients? from their internet sites. men look at the girls, they read the information and feel safer then with other agencies. they have many regulars and repeat clients.
do you know who owns gia? no, but there are 3 women who run it from their flats with cell phones, dianna, zhanna, and the boss.
is the “boss’s name elena gudz'? i think this is it, but i am not sure about the surname. “v”’s eyes got big immediately, she looked surprised and a little frightened.
we have found that the owner of www.gia.com.ua is publicly listed as elena gudz', do you know this person? “i will not answer that”, she said, her voice notably shaken.
do they have an office? no, they work from their flats.
we have found an address for www.gia.com.ua of khreshatik 1 kyiv ukraine, what is this place? i do not know, she answered.
how much money does gia make? i don’t know, but a lot. they have many girls and we all are busy all the time.
how does the money work, how much do you keep? it is a 60 – 40 split, but some girls give 50% i think. it is different with every girl. i wish i could get more but i make up for it on my own.
how much do you work? five or six days a week, i spend sunday with my daughter unless there is real money to make. everyday is different, sometimes several guys a day, sometimes just one for several hours, it is always different. sometimes several guys at one time, it depends. but i only work from 10:00 to 22:00 or so, i need to be home with my daughter so i am usually home much earlier if there are no clients.
do you see the boss and the other girls regularly? no, just talk to them on the phone and sms. i meet the other girls only when a client orders several girls, or at parties or gang bangs and orgies. we do not socialize much, it is nice to see the other girls and we all get along good, they are friendly and nice. we have to be friendly since we make sex together often.
“v” had another glass of champagne and a cigarette, she smokes almost constantly and seems to like the champagne.
if you don’t see the bosses how do you give them money? we send it through the banks, through like western union, but it is only for ukraine and costs very little to use, we send small amounts so it will not be very suspicious, a few hundred dollars all the time after we get paid from the clients, sometimes every day or every few days. this way there is no risk to gia if we are followed or watched.
how does the “protection” work? gia pays a lot of money to the highest police and government officials and the girls are required to perform services for them for free when called to do it.
how much money does gia pay for protection? it is many thousands per month, like $20,000 or more i was told by the boss, so i was told not to worry about the police at all. if we do get in trouble which is very rare, all record of the problem will disappear in a few hours so there is no record at all on the girl, this is what we pay for and for the police not to bother us.
so you have sex with high level government officials and police for free? yes, we go to parties and have sex with different men in the government. it helps pay for our protection, sometimes it is just one man, sometimes it is many at one time. they do not treat us as well as the clients, like we are property or cattle. usually they are drunk and just want to have intercourse and be sucked or watch us do lesbi show and use us, sometimes it is a gang bang and not much fun.
does this happen often? well i can only speak for me, but every girl has to do it, i have had to do it a few times. i think new girls have to do it more then the ones who have worked here for a while, or they just like me. besides everyone likes the new girls more as they are fresh and not so familiar. i don’t know about how many times others do it since we don’t talk about it or to the other girls, we are just told to go to a party or meet a man somewhere take “special care of them” and not to take money.
who are the officials, can you tell me some names? no, i won’t do that, but many of them you see on the television news shows or advertisements for political offices.
ok, i understand, can you tell me what government offices they represent? well, many times we are not introduced to these men, but you hear many things and you can recognize many of them. the ones i have been introduced to come from the mayor’s office, the rada, the highest police offices, the prosecutor general’s office, and the special operations police office who’s job it is to break companies like gia, they are highly placed officials. many times they will introduce themselves and brag how important they are. that is why gia is so successful and safe agency to work for.
can you tell me more about these “parties” with officials? sure, it is simple, we go to where gia tells us to go, maybe restaurant or club where the party is private or private house or a gia flat, there are always big machines (cars) with drivers outside. there are men there, we have sex with them, they try to get us drunk and make us do things. it is usually not much fun. they like to show off as i make fake orgasm and they think they are such good lovers. i think it is funny, but they think they are so good, i always give them a great show, something to remember. clients are better, they treat us better, we get paid by the clients but not to go to these parties.
how does gia pay these officials? with one hundred dollar notes i would guess. (“v” laughed and lit another cigarette and drank some champagne)
most of the agencies try to hide what they do or don’t use real photos of the girls, how can gia operate so freely? they are connected at the highest levels in the government and police, they pay lots of money and give free services. gia has been operating for many years with no problems.
why are there so many agencies like gia in kiev? there is big money in this business, lots of customers, and girls work cheap. if you pay the right people, there are no problems.
why are there so many girls? girls need money, kiev is expensive place to live, maybe they like have sex, they want expensive clothes, nice makeup, good food, to have better life. the money is the best a girl can get, no jobs pay this kind of money.
how much money do you make? i won’t tell you that, but it is a lot.
do you have “regulars”? yes, several, but i do business with them myself, only the first one or two times through gia, then i make my own business with them.
so you give them your telephone number? yes, once i can trust them not to tell gia and i can keep all the money myself.
how long will you do this work? i am not sure, for a while until i find really good sponsors or rich new husband.
do you look for a sponsor from gia clients? well it is a good place to meet rich men.
what do you do when you are not working or between clients? i go to restaurant, i look in shops, i buy clothes, i meet my friends, lots of different things.
do your friends know what you do? no, they think i have real job as secretary.
“v” helped herself to another glass of champagne (the bottle was now empty) and lit another cigarette.
will you give gia half of this money? are you kidding? she answered. i only give them what they expect to get, sometimes when i have a client and it is supposed to be for just one hour, it goes longer, i keep the extra money, i only give them what they expect.
tell me about these “sex tours”: gia does this themselves. they advertise abroad, and on the internet , they have many sites not just gia and men from foreign countries come here just to have sex with us. usually it is with one girl for 2 days. it is very profitable and more comfortable when it is the same guy for a couple of days. i don’t do this, i cannot stay for more then several hours, but if a client wants to pay extra, i will do it just for the day. they provide everything, a car meets them at the airport, takes them to one of gia’s flats here in the center, the girls are waiting in the flat.
gia owns flats in the center of kiev? yes, several. we use them when a client does not want us to come to his place or if there is a party. they are really nice flats. they rent these flats to clients.
how much do these flats cost to own? exactly i am not sure, but many of them are more then $300,000 - $700,000 dollars and more.
how many do they own? at least 12, maybe more.
so gia owns $6,000,000 dollars of real estate? yes, maybe more.
do you know any other girls who work for gia that would talk to me? possibly they would if you paid them like me, but you will have to do this yourself, i don’t want anyone to know that i talked to you.
how about girls from other agencies? i do know other girls sure, but like i said, i don’t want anyone to know i talked to you or i will never work for an agency again, they don’t like girls who talk.
tell me more about your goals and life in the future? i am the elite of elite, the best of the best of escort girls in kiev. i am beautiful and i am sex goddess. my clients love me and ask for me again and again. i make great money now and it gets better everyday. i am the most clever girl at gia and will find rich men to pay for me and not do this work soon.
have you answered my questions truthfully? i tell you truth, only what i know or see and hear myself.
“v” seemed agitated, she was not smiling anymore and looked nervous.
“v” checked her phone and said our hour was up and she needed to go. she asked if i really did not want to have sex, she said she thought i was a good looking man and she would enjoy it. i asked her if it would cost more money just to see her reaction, she smiled and said “of course”. i told her thanks but no thanks, i was a writer and this is my work and i need to keep a clear understanding of my professionalism. she made a short call on her phone in russian. she called someone and told them she was finished and ready to work again.
she gave me a card with only a telephone number on it and said if i or my friends wanted “the best sex in their life” to call her. i said thanks and might want to have another interview with her again, she winked at me and said “sure, anytime, bring big money”. she took the money from her bra and put it in her bag, got up and headed for the door. i opened the door for her and told her it was a pleasure to meet her, thanked her for the great interview and she was wonderful. she smiled and said “you don’t know how wonderful i am” and walked out.
this was our interview with an “escort” from the gia agency. i will continue interviews with girls from other such agencies as i can get them to talk, there are several “elite” agencies in kiev. there are many websites which just many different girls and charge the girl for the advertisement. these girls are free agents or work for a small agency with only a few girls. we are most interested in the larger more visible agencies like gia that fuel the corruption in the highest levels of the government and police. they all operate somewhat the same, paying large sums of money to avoid scrutiny. gia is the largest of these agencies and has been operating in kiev for several years. from what “v” has told us it is quite a well organized operation with far reaching connections. from our calculations, the owners and operators make several million dollars a year from this operation, pay no taxes on this income and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to high level government officials and high level police. the owners have complied millions of dollars of assets. corruption is rampant in ukraine and does not seem to be slowing, only accelerating at a fevered pace as the country’s economy continues to boom.
it is surprising how many prostitutes are advertised on the internet in kiev. several hundred different girls have explicit photos openly offering various services and list the prices which average from $100 an hour to the likes of gia at $250 or more, these agencies are directly focused at western men as the sites are in english and have no russian language. many photos are not real, but some say “100% real” and at sites like gia, the girls are advertised as authentic and “v” proved that to us, she is just the girl in the photos on the site. the number of girls going into this business is growing rapidly, at about 20%-30% per month as we have seen. this group is made up of girls from the age of 18 to maybe 24. i suspect that many of the girls who advertise their age at 18 are most likely much younger.
as an example of young girls active in the prostitution industry in ukraine, a close friend was in one of the better known expat bars in kiev, he met a girl who came in and sat next to him at the bar, she ordered a mojito. he started a casual conversation with her, she spoke english well and they chatted for a long time, after a while and another mojito, she said she was going to another club, which he knew and would he be interested in joining her. he said yes and they left, once outside of the bar, she said she would like to have sex with him but it would cost him $80. he was surprised but accepted as she was “really hot”, about 172 cm and maybe 50 kilos with a great body draped with see through top and short miniskirt (this is pretty average dress of any girl in kiev and not indicative of prostitutes). so they returned to his flat nearby and had sex for a couple of hours. as they were finishing they started to talk and he asked her how old she was and she told him 16. he almost had a heart attack as he felt she was surely in her 20’s. he immediately asked her to leave. the legal age of consent in ukraine is 16 but this shows that there are many young girls actively engaged in the sex for money business in kiev.
there are many sex tourism sites in england, ukraine and western europe featuring “packaged” tours to kiev for sex. gia advertises these “sex tours” to foreigners on another website they own dedicated to sex tourism (http://www.kiev-tour.com/tour ) for the sole purpose of soliciting western men to come to ukraine just to have sex with their girls, so they are even importing their clients with the express purpose of breaking the laws in ukraine for a mere $1200-$1600 for 2 days. some of them (including gia) include the cost of the girls (or boys), airfare and apartment rental. they show explicit pictures of the girls to entice the men and seem very well organized. these “sex tours” range from a weekend in kiev (2 days) to week long sex junkets. many of the girls advertised on the sex tourism sites are the same girls advertised on the many sex sites in kiev. this is a huge business and is only getting bigger and more popular.
there are not many girls over the age of 26 in this industry especially focused at western men and the average age seems to be 20 or so. it seems that western men are more attracted to the younger of the age range. in this article we do not even address the freelance girls in clubs and bars or “staff” girls in most hotels. most hotels in kiev have girls that work only in these hotels and are on “call” for customer’s “needs”. freelance prostitutes are not allowed in hotels and if you were to hire a girl to come to your hotel room, you would have to meet her on the street and then bribe the door man or security to get her into the building which costs up to $50.00.
we have seen the far reaching degree of corruption in officials relating to this industry in kiev and can only assume many people are getting rich by abusing their positions. this has always been a problem in ukraine and there is no end in site as government officials and police openly promote this business. it seems no one wants to put a stop to it or can. this type of activity is particularly distasteful to a government who is so pro-western and verbally outspoken to stop corruption. it is evident that the government’s claims of enforcing laws and cleaning up corruption is only “lip service” and there will be nothing done to curb the growth of this multi-million dollar industry that operates openly and freely in kiev.
it seems that ukrainian women are prostitutes all over the world from europe to hong kong. where ever there is a tall leggy blonde prostitute she will most likely be from ukraine. this will only become more prevalent as ukraine comes closer to entering the eu.
with the astronomical increase in aids in ukraine and the fact that westerns have to have an aids test to enter russia these days and ukraine just turns a blind eye to this, it is no wonder the western world has a dim view of the morals and values of this country and worth of ukraine ascending into the eu. western governments should protest these business practices and operations and hold the government of ukraine responsible and accountable for allowing this degree of corruption to flourish in the daylight much less the darkness.
this is a shameful record for ukraine’s government as it does nothing to stop this activity and the officials tasked to stop this criminal activity are criminals themselves actually helping it succeed. ukraine has made no effort to stop the corruption in the government, there are no efforts to investigate and charge these officials as the criminals they truly are. if ukraine can end the corruption, then the next step would be to bring the owners and operators of these agencies to justice but it is an impossible task without the support of the government and the mechanism of law enforcement which exists only in name and of course the uniformed presence is truly a joke.
as they are showing by the actions professed in the above article, telling the parents of these "girls" may not do much as their parents are probably in need of the additional income their hard working daughter is providing. again ukraine continues to astound me. maybe if laws were passed in ukraine like those in the usa where the funds seized by law enforcement was allocated to the agency which preformed the arrest, one might see some action by the police. harassment, prosecution, and continued enforcement by police can make a statement, but the real way to effect this industry is to go after these agencies and officials they support who are the ones really profiting.
AColonizer
01-17-09, 01:30
Spandex and George Red, you're right! This is the reality! This is the logic! I wonder why a lot of men are happy to pay a lot of money to women: that's definitely silly! About two years ago, I talked about this problem and I tried to find a solution: pay less or change woman, if there is no good woman, then move to another country.
It seems economical crisis is hitting Ukraine very hard, but I am stil hearing crazy prices from girls in Kiev. And, above all, bad services for foreigners!
I can't finish to read that article, that's unbelievable men are so stupid to go to Kiev and to pay 100/150/200$ per hour for a vaginal fuck. Think, flight 500$ + flat 500$ + woman 500$ = 1500$ I am sure in every part of the world everybody can fuck every luxury escort for 1500$, but at home!
This is a safe way to change a paradise into a hell.
LifeSavour
01-18-09, 10:17
Why? The girl obviously stated that she did not want anyone to know she talked to YOU!
[Do you know any other girls who work for Gia that would talk to me? Possibly they would if you paid them like me, but you will have to do this yourself, I don’t want anyone to know that I talked to you.
How about girls from other agencies? I do know other girls sure, but like I said, I don’t want anyone to know I talked to you or I will never work for an agency again, they don’t like girls who talk. ]
Not so professional in my view!
Colon (and I use the term in the anatomical sense, not the grammatical), Spandex and George Red, you guys simply live in on another planet or in an alternate universe. It would be best if you opened your own forum and not pollute this one with your utter trash.
I have been here for more than ten years. I have had lots of fun here with expensive P4P and more freebies than I will even count. I even had the pleasure of enjoying a number of times with today's Wiska when she was just plain Mila and charged $50 per hour!
As for your all your P4P comments they are utter nonsense.
The prices are what they are. They are reflected on the various web sites such as top-models. The rates there are anywhere from 450 grivna (about $55) to 800 and some cases even 1000 grivna. However, I also notice that prices are dropping due to likely lower demand at the higher process. Market forces do sometimes work here.
Even Gia has dropped its prices somewhat.
As for what locals pay, you guys have absolutely no idea. If you want to find out go and read ebi.te.ua (it is only in Russian) which is the local sextalk.ru equivalent. The prices the locals pay are what foreigners pay. Sometimes they do negotiate a slightly lower price but that is "soemtimes" and only "slightly" lower. It is not significant and with P4P it is not free as you three seem to expect.
The real bottom line on rates are what you can negotiate with the lady. She has an idea of what she wants and you should have an idea of what you want to pay. If that negotiation can't come to a successful conclusion you should just go on with your life.
The only hell is what you put the rest of us through reading your nonsense. Try and add to this forum with facts, not your overwrought and imagined opinions that have no basis in the reality on the ground here.
If you cannot do this, then don't bother the rest of us, please.
Colon (and I use the term in the anatomical sense, not the grammatical), Spandex and George Red, you guys simply live in on another planet or in an alternate universe. It would be best if you opened your own forum and not pollute this one with your utter trash.You are talking like a agency owner who does want anybody getting a better rate on girls and falsly keeping the price up by your post. Do you know in my city how many tourists who come for girls and look in newspapers, internet, striper bars or known red light district and pay big bucks for girls? Maybe you are one of them? The same city where I can have the same services for 20$ in a poor neibourghood. Don't tell me that it's OK to pay hundreds of dollars. Maybe yes if you want a 10+ bombshell in Kreshiatik for the entire night but anyone here who as a car, drive up to a poor neigbourhood and speak Russian can get a blowjob from a babushka or junky with condom for less than $20. If you didn't know that, you know it now.
LifeSavour
01-20-09, 07:34
You are talking. But anyone here who as a car, drive up to a poor neigbourhood and speak Russian can get a blowjob from a babushka or junky with condom for less than $20. If you didn't know that, you know it now.Babushka OR junkie? Wow, I am excited! I have NO car and speak no Russian and I get BBBJ's from 22 to 26 year olds regularly. For less than an average dinner.
Babushka OR junkie? Wow, I am excited! I have NO car and speak no Russian and I get BBBJ's from 22 to 26 year olds regularly. For less than an average dinner.
My God, a junkie would have to pay ME a lot more than $20.00!!
Maybe the 'thrill' of catching something (horrific) adds to the excitement?
Doctor_Skank
01-21-09, 00:49
Babushka OR junkie? Wow, I am excited! I have NO car and speak no Russian and I get BBBJ's from 22 to 26 year olds regularly. For less than an average dinner.Oh rrlly? Do tell... will be in Kiev soon and need inspiration.. :)
Bez Bezarra
01-21-09, 05:19
Western governments stop the government of Ukraine.
The next step bring owners and operators to "justice", and like in the USA the funds seized by law enforcement was allocated to the police, the real way to officialy profit.Once again, the difference between East and West.
In the West, by dishonesty and deceit, through lying in the name of morality, the police abuse their power, to steal money, and keep it for themselves.
Its always the same.
Western "justice" means, you will do what the police and judges tell you to do, because they said so, because they have the guns, so they can simply take your money, and keep it.
And pretend that its all legal, because they said it was.
The biggest criminals of all.
LifeSavour
01-21-09, 07:17
Don't think you need inspiration!
So what's your REAL point?
Ps. You won't like my 'village' looking / acting girls. As MOST know I have lower standards for BJ's. 'because I don't spend the $$$ YOU do!
colon (and i use the term in the anatomical sense, not the grammatical), spandex and george red, you guys simply live in on another planet or in an alternate universe. it would be best if you opened your own forum and not pollute this one with your utter trash.
i have been here for more than ten years. i have had lots of fun here with expensive p4p and more freebies than i will even count. i even had the pleasure of enjoying a number of times with today's wiska when she was just plain mila and charged $50 per hour!
as for your all your p4p comments they are utter nonsense.
the prices are what they are. they are reflected on the various web sites such as top-models. the rates there are anywhere from 450 grivna (about $55) to 800 and some cases even 1000 grivna. however, i also notice that prices are dropping due to likely lower demand at the higher process. market forces do sometimes work here.
even gia has dropped its prices somewhat.
as for what locals pay, you guys have absolutely no idea. if you want to find out go and read ebi.te.ua (it is only in russian) which is the local sextalk.ru equivalent. the prices the locals pay are what foreigners pay. sometimes they do negotiate a slightly lower price but that is "soemtimes" and only "slightly" lower. it is not significant and with p4p it is not free as you three seem to expect.
the real bottom line on rates are what you can negotiate with the lady. she has an idea of what she wants and you should have an idea of what you want to pay. if that negotiation can't come to a successful conclusion you should just go on with your life.
the only hell is what you put the rest of us through reading your nonsense. try and add to this forum with facts, not your overwrought and imagined opinions that have no basis in the reality on the ground here.
if you cannot do this, then don't bother the rest of us, please.
uke, got to agree with you all of them spread miss information and colon just spreads his own brand of woman hating, a [CodeWord126] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126) in waiting i think ;)
I think that the guy writing the article down here is completely crazy…
As we say in Italian he discovered warm water…
An believe to stupid ***** stories…
Just some points.
Usually the splitting is 60/40 and 60 is for the agency taking care of everything including taxi.
Obviously Gia makes a lot of money… they are affordable for westeners, specially for long time and the girls do what they write. Just a little bit overpriced, if 10 hours where at 300 and not at 450… Obviously they got “protection” it’s an illegal business here: we are not in Holland or Germany. None of the gia girls will hand out their telephone… if they want to last in the business…
Even more obvious that you find 16 and 17 y.o. girls… just go on mamba, flirt or what ever it is… hundreds everywhere in FSU searching for a sponsor… found even two crazy ones… (pigs) I saw one searching for a guy at least 22 cm and one for two men for being sandwiched, but these are just out for fun so as soon they get what they want the cancel the ad… This not for speaking on 18-19 y.o. teens! In the second parts of their albums you often see pussies and what ever you are going to buy!
Do not forget that FSU girls morality on sex is different than American or European one… for instance in Holland you can be the main actress in a hard film at 17! Whatever your daddy thinks! An in FSU countries they fuck as rabbits at 16…
I can imagine the “V” girl problems… simply stupid… click on the link… and look…
For closing with Gia (I used it in the past) is that you see what your get (just some obvious photoshop)… if you are in your room and just want to order (no hassle no problem, no River Palace or Arena) just do it, a little bit more costly, but if you take a girl for 24 hours not so much… and if it’s written she does BBBJ and CIM it’s so… unfortunately few anal ones…
For 750 USD this stupid guy could have had the girl, fucking the brain out of her and knowing the same things… he do not show professionalism he shows how stupid he is…
Just my two cents…
IT
You are talking like a agency owner who does want anybody getting a better rate on girls and falsly keeping the price up by your post. Do you know in my city how many tourists who come for girls and look in newspapers, internet, striper bars or known red light district and pay big bucks for girls? Maybe you are one of them? The same city where I can have the same services for 20$ in a poor neibourghood. Don't tell me that it's OK to pay hundreds of dollars. Maybe yes if you want a 10+ bombshell in Kreshiatik for the entire night but anyone here who as a car, drive up to a poor neigbourhood and speak Russian can get a blowjob from a babushka or junky with condom for less than $20. If you didn't know that, you know it now.
I am not sure what your city is but mine is Kiev and you need not tell me about it. I have been here for more than ten years and have had many more experiences than you could imagine with many freebies.
That being said, I also like to sample the P4P. I also do not pay hundreds (last week I spent 400 grivna or $50, she was a 7 in my book) but I do negotiate and pay the rate I want to pay. My earlier post mentioned that those who can should read (but perhaps you do not know Russian) ebi.te.ua and you will see just what locals who have this same hobby pay on a daily basis. Prices are definitely going down but they are certainly not what you and your pals falsely claim.
Not too many of us (me included) want to get blowjobs from junkies and babushkas for $20 as you do. You can continue in your lonely search for such victims but I much prefer sex with Wiska (Mila) as I have in the past or ladies such as her. To each his own but I hope you regularly get an AIDS test.
Just one more comment in that perhaps you should RTFF. You will see that I have often, consistently and loudly criticized Gia and all other agencies that I think are overpriced and provide low quality ladies and services. I will continue to do so.
George Red
01-22-09, 16:04
I am not sure what your city is but mine is Kiev and you need not tell me about it. I have been here for more than ten years and have had many more experiences than you could imagine with many freebies.
That being said, I also like to sample the P4P. I also do not pay hundreds (last week I spent 400 grivna or $50, she was a 7 in my book) but I do negotiate and pay the rate I want to pay. My earlier post mentioned that those who can should read (but perhaps you do not know Russian) ebi.te.ua and you will see just what locals who have this same hobby pay on a daily basis. Prices are definitely going down but they are certainly not what you and your pals falsely claim.
Not too many of us (me included) want to get blowjobs from junkies and babushkas for $20 as you do. You can continue in your lonely search for such victims but I much prefer sex with Wiska (Mila) as I have in the past or ladies such as her. To each his own but I hope you regularly get an AIDS test.
Just one more comment in that perhaps you should RTFF. You will see that I have often, consistently and loudly criticized Gia and all other agencies that I think are overpriced and provide low quality ladies and services. I will continue to do so.Look my "friend"maybe you can bullshit our american or italian friends here but don't try to do it with me
If you are not in this bussines, that I think 99%, you must to be very stupid, being 10 years in ucrain and saing these bullshits
Where they come from, "gia girls"? Are they some royal kint? Or just devuski who fuck as many as posibil in their personal life and for some reason they now offer "pro" service?
In my opinion kiev is overprised, sometimes locals helped to that, but mostly naiv and overexciting foreiners did that its very usual or not, fact that many somewealthy local married people have very nice "girlfriends ' for 200$ salary per month or some "secratary" fuckable anytime, for 300$ a month? Or you have not fucked many student or school girls, for some taxi money, new mobile phone 50-150$?
I can tell you was a time, when I speak no Russian at all, that I had to pay 30-50$for a nice tall girl for 3-4 hours, that many times have to leave me going to some hotel for 200$ an hour! Is it clear now?
So my friend don't try to explain us why you have to pay hundrends of dollars to fuck in ucrain, because just simple there is no reason, you can do it the same things with the same girls for 50-70$ even if you don't speak Russian and look not so good because if you do look good and speak Russian and you hung out you just don't need any money to pay the girls, as long as you pay the drinks and the dinner I am sorry but your skill is very low to trick me, with these advises of yours, must pay like an idiot, to fuck average girls in kiev s "2 cent" pro-scene.
I hope some american friends and otalians to believe me and next time to think twice if these low quality girls from river palace worth more than 100$ a night, because they have no alternative (for me they worth 0)but ok, not everybody has time to learn Russian and hung around
Ciao boys, I hope I helped
Look my "friend"maybe you can bullshit our american or italian friends here but don't try to do it with me
If you are not in this bussines, that I think 99%, you must to be very stupid, being 10 years in ucrain and saing these bullshits
Where they come from, "gia girls"? Are they some royal kint? Or just devuski who fuck as many as posibil in their personal life and for some reason they now offer "pro" service?
In my opinion kiev is overprised, sometimes locals helped to that, but mostly naiv and overexciting foreiners did that its very usual or not, fact that many somewealthy local married people have very nice "girlfriends ' for 200$ salary per month or some "secratary" fuckable anytime, for 300$ a month? Or you have not fucked many student or school girls, for some taxi money, new mobile phone 50-150$?
I can tell you was a time, when I speak no Russian at all, that I had to pay 30-50$for a nice tall girl for 3-4 hours, that many times have to leave me going to some hotel for 200$ an hour! Is it clear now?
So my friend don't try to explain us why you have to pay hundrends of dollars to fuck in ucrain, because just simple there is no reason, you can do it the same things with the same girls for 50-70$ even if you don't speak Russian and look not so good because if you do look good and speak Russian and you hung out you just don't need any money to pay the girls, as long as you pay the drinks and the dinner I am sorry but your skill is very low to trick me, with these advises of yours, must pay like an idiot, to fuck average girls in kiev s "2 cent" pro-scene.
I hope some american friends and otalians to believe me and next time to think twice if these low quality girls from river palace worth more than 100$ a night, because they have no alternative (for me they worth 0)but ok, not everybody has time to learn Russian and hung around
Ciao boys, I hope I helped
If some dude wants to pay $500+ to get his rocks off and another pay some (disgusting) 'druggie' $20.00 for a grotty BJ then THATS THEIR CHOICE!! All this endless bollox about 'ruining' the market for other mongers by 'overpaying' is just that.......bollox!
Back to pussy I say, which is what we're supposed to be here for!
Look my "friend"maybe you can bullshit our american or italian friends here but don't try to do it with me
If you are not in this bussines, that I think 99%, you must to be very stupid, being 10 years in ucrain and saing these bullshits
Where they come from, "gia girls"? Are they some royal kint? Or just devuski who fuck as many as posibil in their personal life and for some reason they now offer "pro" service?
In my opinion kiev is overprised, sometimes locals helped to that, but mostly naiv and overexciting foreiners did that its very usual or not, fact that many somewealthy local married people have very nice "girlfriends ' for 200$ salary per month or some "secratary" fuckable anytime, for 300$ a month? Or you have not fucked many student or school girls, for some taxi money, new mobile phone 50-150$?
I can tell you was a time, when I speak no Russian at all, that I had to pay 30-50$for a nice tall girl for 3-4 hours, that many times have to leave me going to some hotel for 200$ an hour! Is it clear now?
So my friend don't try to explain us why you have to pay hundrends of dollars to fuck in ucrain, because just simple there is no reason, you can do it the same things with the same girls for 50-70$ even if you don't speak Russian and look not so good because if you do look good and speak Russian and you hung out you just don't need any money to pay the girls, as long as you pay the drinks and the dinner I am sorry but your skill is very low to trick me, with these advises of yours, must pay like an idiot, to fuck average girls in kiev s "2 cent" pro-scene.
I hope some american friends and otalians to believe me and next time to think twice if these low quality girls from river palace worth more than 100$ a night, because they have no alternative (for me they worth 0)but ok, not everybody has time to learn Russian and hung around
Ciao boys, I hope I helped
George where the f*** did you come from? to start demanding you know best?
Where are your reports on what you have done? apart from price stories on how we are all pimps? or how we over pay and make it expensive for you?
How about showing us pictures of the "high quality" you get for so little!
Put up or shut up!
George Red
01-24-09, 01:05
george where the f*** did you come from? To start demanding you know best?
Where are your reports on what you have done? Apart from price stories on how we are all pimps? Or how we over pay and make it expensive for you?
How about showing us pictures of the "high quality" you get for so little!
Put up or shut up! I come from greece
If you want keep paying 300$ for every stupid low quality *****, if thats ok for you, I don't care if you keep going on
I don't do hookers lately, cause I am not sexturist, I have bussines here, ukraine and moldova, neither junkies
It is very easy to do it for free in this place called ucraina, you have to believe it
I go for normal freebies, very happy to be with a nice goodlooking guy, far better for their ucrain boyfriend, fuck them much better also,
I have no posibility to post up pictures, because these women I have been with last 2 years there are not hookers
I ll try to help you change, your stupid attitude in overpaid but you are a free man pal
Enjoy your way of life, maybe one day you will understand better.
George Red
01-24-09, 01:25
If some dude wants to pay $500+ to get his rocks off and another pay some (disgusting) 'druggie' $20.00 for a grotty BJ then THATS THEIR CHOICE!! All this endless bollox about 'ruining' the market for other mongers by 'overpaying' is just that.......bollox!
Back to pussy I say, which is what we're supposed to be here for!My dear friend "back to pussy" byt not like stupid
I tell you for sure I don't fuck junkies, also I did not fuck hookers last 2-3 years, cause I have no reason anymore to pay for something as long as I speak some Russian and can pick up many freebies easy enought (2, 3 new girls/week)
I just tell you one more and the faster you get it, the better, the girl of 500$ you mentioned before is the same like the 0-50$ girl some Russian speaking, average guy fucks also you just overpaid the same girl, just like this you can pay her also 1000$ but the quality remain the same or many times worst than a freebie of 15-50$ (drinks or diner also)
Thats the one and only truth good luck.
I come from greece
If you want keep paying 300$ for every stupid low quality *****, if thats ok for you, I don't care if you keep going on
I don't do hookers lately, cause I am not sexturist, I have bussines here, ukraine and moldova, neither junkies
It is very easy to do it for free in this place called ucraina, you have to believe it
I go for normal freebies, very happy to be with a nice goodlooking guy, far better for their ucrain boyfriend, fuck them much better also,
I have no posibility to post up pictures, because these women I have been with last 2 years there are not hookers
I ll try to help you change, your stupid attitude in overpaid but you are a free man pal
Enjoy your way of life, maybe one day you will understand better.
George, its all very odd to me..... as you don't even read posts, only your own!
Where in all of my posts have I ever said I paid $300 for a girl here?
So you have been with your free girls for the last 2 years? and they are not hookers? so what do you want a medal?
RTFF before you post sweeping statements.
Enjoy my life? maybe I will understand better? man you are a joke....... those that know me and have met me know who I am and what I do.
Good looking guy? congratulations, funny as most Greeks I have ever met thought they where good looking as well ;) national trait is it? :)
My dear friend "back to pussy" byt not like stupid
I tell you for sure I don't fuck junkies, also I did not fuck hookers last 2-3 years, cause I have no reason anymore to pay for something as long as I speak some Russian and can pick up many freebies easy enought (2, 3 new girls/week)
I just tell you one more and the faster you get it, the better, the girl of 500$ you mentioned before is the same like the 0-50$ girl some Russian speaking, average guy fucks also you just overpaid the same girl, just like this you can pay her also 1000$ but the quality remain the same or many times worst than a freebie of 15-50$ (drinks or diner also)
Thats the one and only truth good luck.
Bully for you if you are knee deep in feebies as you claim.
Why do you feel the need to keep slagging off blokes who P4P ?
$50 or $1,000 it's THEIR choice!!!!
ISG is not for you and so best go somewhere else!
The Beginner
01-24-09, 13:31
George, its all very odd to me. As you don't even read posts, only your own!
Where in all of my posts have I ever said I paid $300 for a girl here?
So you have been with your free girls for the last 2 years? And they are not hookers? So what do you want a medal?
RTFF before you post sweeping statements.
Enjoy my life? Maybe I will understand better? Man you are a joke. Those that know me and have met me know who I am and what I do.
Good looking guy? Congratulations, funny as most Greeks I have ever met thought they where good looking as well national trait is it? George,
A man I respect greatly once said to me "if you had a greek on one side of you and a tiger on the other and only one bullet in your gun what would you do? Shoot the greek and take your chances with the tiger! "
Also said "lets face it, the greeks invented Greek style centuries ago and they have been fucking people up the arse one way or another ever since!"
Street Sleuth
01-24-09, 22:01
"An in FSU countries they fuck as rabbits at 16…"
I like Slavic women - at least, physically....but gotta make a point regarding a prior post.
It is generally thought in the West that Slavic women are easy, and fuck like rabbits. True about some of them - but, if I had to generalize, I'd say:
1) American girls, on average, start having sex at younger ages than Slavic women.
2) American girls have more sex partners than Slavic women.
3) One night stands are more common for American girls than Slavic women.
This is all in respect to non-working girls. The skewed vision comes from the P4P that is available in the Slavic world - young, hot, clean, educated girls available to older men for a fee (near non-existant in the US). This is in large part due to economic differences, but also due to mentality differences.
Getting totally free sex in the Slavic world, by a Western guy, is near impossible - despite what many ego-centric posters will go on about here. You may not pay a direct P4P fee - but you'll pay for expensive dinners, gifts, trips - something....unlike with American girls, where truly free sex can often occur. The main reason, as best I can describe it, is that Slavic women have a bit of a chip on their shoulders, and feel the need to get something from foreigners in exchange for sex - they feel cheated otherwise.
If you are around extensively, and can play the role of a standard boyfriend, then, of course, all that changes. But I'm talking quick, one-off encounters.
Just don't want new guys coming to the region to be dissapointed when they go out on the town, expecting to score easily, and end up falling flat on their face....
Street Sleuth
01-24-09, 22:14
One observation regarding pricing of P4P, again harking back to the Greek dude, and his responders:
I see multiple levels of pricing for P4P:
Most Expensive: Generally hot girls, who speak English, and gear themselves towards foreign market (RP, some internet sites). These girls are, indeed, by my standards, over-priced - but they are often the hottest girls as well, despite what some posters may go on about - so, if money is no object, you want one of the hotter girls, and you'd like to be able to communicate a bit with her, this really is the best alternative.
Mid Range: Mamba, a host of Russian-only internet sites, and oodles of apartments (generally same girls found on russian-only internet sites). Decent looking girls - sometimes hot, but generally not as hot as you'd find in the Most Expensive category. Its a good trade-off, if you can speak some Russian.
Low End: Same venue as mid-range, but consist of butte ugly, overweight girls. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but come on....
I won't post prices, as the meltdown of the griven has got to be skewing things a bit - but, my only point would be - anyone who says you can consistently get Ukrainian P4P for $50 and under is referring to the 'low-end' category above. If they say they got hot girls for $50 and under - they are still referring to the low-end category, they just have a very different definition of 'hot' than what most guys do.
Once in awhile, you may get lucky, and find a hot, new girl to Kiev in the low end category - but, within a few weeks, she'll bump up to at least the mid-range.
Doctor_Skank
01-24-09, 22:22
"An in FSU countries they fuck as rabbits at 16…"
I like Slavic women - at least, physically....but gotta make a point regarding a prior post.
It is generally thought in the West that Slavic women are easy, and fuck like rabbits. True about some of them - but, if I had to generalize, I'd say:
1) American girls, on average, start having sex at younger ages than Slavic women.
2) American girls have more sex partners than Slavic women.
3) One night stands are more common for American girls than Slavic women.
This is all in respect to non-working girls. The skewed vision comes from the P4P that is available in the Slavic world - young, hot, clean, educated girls available to older men for a fee (near non-existant in the US). This is in large part due to economic differences, but also due to mentality differences.
This is absolutely true in my experience.
Getting totally free sex in the Slavic world, by a Western guy, is near impossible - despite what many ego-centric posters will go on about here. This is only partially true in my experience.
The main reason, as best I can describe it, is that Slavic women have a bit of a chip on their shoulders, and feel the need to get something from foreigners in exchange for sex - they feel cheated otherwise.Again, I really don't think the "rules of sex and dating" are that much different for locals and foreigners. Talking to local friends, it often seems that we have it even easier than they do in terms of their girls demanding things.
This is of course completely separate from the notorious serial daters... many of whom are on Mamba or hang out at places where expats go. Those women are truly mercenary and evil.
"An in FSU countries they fuck as rabbits at 16…"
I like Slavic women - at least, physically....but gotta make a point regarding a prior post.
It is generally thought in the West that Slavic women are easy, and fuck like rabbits. True about some of them - but, if I had to generalize, I'd say:
1) American girls, on average, start having sex at younger ages than Slavic women.
2) American girls have more sex partners than Slavic women.
3) One night stands are more common for American girls than Slavic women.
This is all in respect to non-working girls. The skewed vision comes from the P4P that is available in the Slavic world - young, hot, clean, educated girls available to older men for a fee (near non-existant in the US). This is in large part due to economic differences, but also due to mentality differences.
Getting totally free sex in the Slavic world, by a Western guy, is near impossible - despite what many ego-centric posters will go on about here. You may not pay a direct P4P fee - but you'll pay for expensive dinners, gifts, trips - something....unlike with American girls, where truly free sex can often occur. The main reason, as best I can describe it, is that Slavic women have a bit of a chip on their shoulders, and feel the need to get something from foreigners in exchange for sex - they feel cheated otherwise.
If you are around extensively, and can play the role of a standard boyfriend, then, of course, all that changes. But I'm talking quick, one-off encounters.
Just don't want new guys coming to the region to be dissapointed when they go out on the town, expecting to score easily, and end up falling flat on their face....I don't have experience of american women in a great extent but if we compare slavic women to western european women,there are certain differences regarding behaviour.
First difference and most important is that slavic women are far more horny,they always crave for sex,boyfriends,they want penis.On the other hand western euro women seem to be happy with dildos and their desire is much lower.It is obvious by behaviour of western girls vs slavic girls that slavic girls ar emuch more horny and excited.
2.Western euro girls are more intellectual and rational while slavic girls are more emotional and irrational.Again with lots of consequences.
3.In the western world there is conception of mutual rights,feminism and a lot more which is non-exsitent in the slavic world where the woman has to prove her value as sex material.So in slavic world men are the desired sex and women compete for them.
To see how full of illusions feminism is,you would be surprised if you heard polish girls,ukrainian girls or czech girls opinions about prostitutes.More or less they are proud that their nations produce the best prostitutes in the world.They consider western european women as unable to be pros since they look so ugly that they fail to cause erection.It is funny to hear czech girl(not pro) explain why czech pros are superior to russian ones and why they should be prefered.
So we are talking about a totally different concept of relationships than the one which is rampant in the rotten West.Of course the basis is as I already wrote the horniness of slavic women.They simply cannot stand long without penis inside them.
Street Sleuth
01-25-09, 08:05
This is absolutely true in my experience. This is only partially true in my experience.Again, I really don't think the "rules of sex and dating" are that much different for locals and foreigners. Talking to local friends, it often seems that we have it even easier than they do in terms of their girls demanding things.
This is of course completely separate from the notorious serial daters... many of whom are on Mamba or hang out at places where expats go. Those women are truly mercenary and evil.
Well, yes, I would agree with the idea - the dating rules are fairly similar for Slavic to Slavic and Slavic to Foreigner. It is true, there are financial demands placed on the local guys, every bit as much as placed on foreign guys - its just we aren't as used to it, at least not in such a direct, conspicuous fashion.
Western women, ultimately demand even more financial payout - its just more discreet and indirect.
You make a more key point though - separating out the mercenary girls on Mamba and Expat locales - these are the girls that give a false generalization image of Slavic women. When you are able to speak the language, and get beyond these locations, into more regular life, you find the girls are often as I described.
George Red
01-25-09, 11:32
George,
A man I respect greatly once said to me "if you had a greek on one side of you and a tiger on the other and only one bullet in your gun what would you do? Shoot the greek and take your chances with the tiger! "
Also said "lets face it, the greeks invented Greek style centuries ago and they have been fucking people up the arse one way or another ever since!"Very very funny I just enjoyed! I speak for the "tiger" story second thought is not correct, greeks invent civilisation and all the principals of philosofy, modern greeks are not the best but either the worst people living outthere I am not greek american, like these that you maybe know, I am native greek there is much difference in mentality and for the e. Europe is better to know you come from greece, than from usa, you have to know that.
George Red
01-25-09, 12:19
George, its all very odd to me. As you don't even read posts, only your own!
Where in all of my posts have I ever said I paid $300 for a girl here?
So you have been with your free girls for the last 2 years? And they are not hookers? So what do you want a medal?
Rtff before you post sweeping statements.
Enjoy my life? Maybe I will understand better? Man you are a joke. Those that know me and have met me know who I am and what I do.
Good looking guy? Congratulations, funny as most greeks I have ever met thought they where good looking as well national trait is it? Somebody asked me where I come from, thats why I said I come from Greece.
The Greeks don't look good in the states cause they eat like Americans do! Milions of europe (and USA) women been in greek islands for sea sex (with greeks) and sun don't agree with you, about the way greek looks like except of all this, I am fost basketball pro, in very very good shape and I forgot how many skandinavian mostly and greek girls meet in my life in islands until my 30+.
Last 8 years I have bussines in romania and ukraine so I live mostly there and you have to know that if you look good (like greek or italian type goodllooking guy, they don't like a lot white red face goodlooking guys, because they have russians looking like this) you can fuck as lot as you want nice sexy girls, because they also like sex!
But you have to speak some Russian and to make them believe you stay there or you go on regular basis.
Ofcourse I had a very very goodlooking friend, not greek, younger thn me about 32 y. O. , who many aaa devuski insist to go with him just for one time, because they like him so much.
Ok this is not very common but you just think a little more, I speak for younger goodlooking guys not for all, before imediatelly offer money to an ucrainian average looking girl.
Bottom line, pay as much as you like for any kind of stupid bitches, my opinion more thn 100$ is very stupid move, but you already know sex is enjoy only if the girl is for somekind of free (offcourse you pay good money to hang around, many times more than 100$ per night) or at least if does not humilates you making pay some hundrends of dollars, telling after her friends how superior is from you, that you have paid these money (2-3 months normal salary) just to lick her pussy go on maybe you have wright and I am wrong, this is my "greek " point of view.
Ginkgo Bear
01-25-09, 18:20
Getting totally free sex in the Slavic world, by a Western guy, is near impossible. Despite what many ego-centric posters will go on about here. You may not pay a direct P4P fee. But you'll pay for expensive dinners, gifts, trips. Something. Unlike with American girls, where truly free sex can often occur. The main reason, as best I can describe it, is that Slavic women have a bit of a chip on their shoulders, and feel the need to get something from foreigners in exchange for sex. They feel cheated otherwise.
If you are around extensively, and can play the role of a standard boyfriend, then, of course, all that changes. But I'm talking quick, one-off encounters.
Just don't want new guys coming to the region to be dissapointed when they go out on the town, expecting to score easily, and end up falling flat on their face.Well, free sex with American girls in the end cost me much more than paid sex with slavic women.
Have never been to Kiev, but planning a trip very soon. Could anyone fill me in on the details which brothels and clubs are the best at the moment?
I was also wondering if pages like this is reliable with real photos.
http://escort-models. Kiev. Ua/en/models/page: 2/
The girls look amazing. If this site is only a scam, I would love to hear wich ones I should use.
Thanks in advance!
Street Sleuth
01-26-09, 08:09
Kiev girls like darker skinned Greeks and Italians?!
Sure, it can happen. Not saying Greek or Italian guys can't get laid in Ukraine...however:
Ukrainians and Russians tend to be very racist, combined with a dash of ignorance, and a splash of arrogance - and you have them labelling everyone darker than snow as 'chorni'.
I haven't seen many Greeks bumping around Kiev, but have seen some Italians - they are often refused entry to clubs - 'no arabs/turks allowed'.
Street Sleuth
01-26-09, 08:14
Again, trying not to over-generalize, but, in general :), from what I have seen:
Between a choice of either
1) a young, educated, good-looking, physically fit, generous, kind, succesfull darker skinned Italian
or
2) a middle aged, bland, overweight, lazy, white as snow German/Brit/American
Most Ukrainian girls will take #2.
I'm not saying the girls aren't retared for their decision - they are. But it is what it is.
Kiev girls like darker skinned Greeks and Italians?!
Sure, it can happen. Not saying Greek or Italian guys can't get laid in Ukraine...however:
Ukrainians and Russians tend to be very racist, combined with a dash of ignorance, and a splash of arrogance - and you have them labelling everyone darker than snow as 'chorni'.
I haven't seen many Greeks bumping around Kiev, but have seen some Italians - they are often refused entry to clubs - 'no arabs/turks allowed'.
Ahh seems that stereotypes of Italians are everywhere... I more often can be taken as Russian, or nord European... and I'm Italian.. It depends from where you are... and for where your family arrives!!!
Some southern guys look like swedes or so (blond, blue eyes, they have been invaded by Vikings) a guy living on the next house can be dark, with short hair like africans, because they have been invaded by arabs too...
So there is no "Italian type" it's only in ads you see it!
Just my two cents...
IT
PS I have never been refused anywhere, in Russia o in Kiev this have alsto much to do with how you are dressed... If the guy at the entrance looks and see expencive Italian shoes and an expencive Italian siut he will let you in, do not matter how ugly you are!
Ok this is not very common but you just think a little more, I speak for younger goodlooking guys not for all, before imediatelly offer money to an ucrainian average looking girl.Is this really that remarkable? Young good looking guys can fuck Ukrainian girls? Why even go to Ukraine if you're young and a former basketball player? I'm pretty confident you could fuck girls in any country in the world.
AColonizer
01-26-09, 12:08
Dear Street,
I hope you are right but I meet enough Ukrainian women who like dark-skinned men and therefore I tried to find a logic reason: Ukrainian women, like Italian women, have their own erotic dream, that is fucking a dark or black guy (better if more than one at the same time).
That signal "no arabs/turks allowed" was put there by Ukrainian men, not by their girlfriends ;)
For your information, north Italian men are not usually dark-skinned band they are pretty "cold".
Cheers
Kiev girls like darker skinned Greeks and Italians?!
Sure, it can happen. Not saying Greek or Italian guys can't get laid in Ukraine...however:
Ukrainians and Russians tend to be very racist, combined with a dash of ignorance, and a splash of arrogance - and you have them labelling everyone darker than snow as 'chorni'.
I haven't seen many Greeks bumping around Kiev, but have seen some Italians - they are often refused entry to clubs - 'no arabs/turks allowed'.
AColonizer
01-26-09, 12:16
Is this the reason for which marriage agencies go fast in U.S.A.?
The sucking preference for penis horribilis?
Again, trying not to over-generalize, but, in general :), from what I have seen:
Between a choice of either
1) A young, educated, good-looking, physically fit, generous, kind, succesfull darker skinned Italian
or
2) A middle aged, bland, overweight, lazy, white as snow German/Brit/American
Most Ukrainian girls will take #2.
I'm not saying the girls aren't retared for their decision - they are. But it is what it is.
Doctor_Skank
01-26-09, 13:28
Last 8 years I have bussines in romania and ukraine so I live mostly there and you have to know that if you look good (like greek or italian type goodllooking guy, they don't like a lot white red face goodlooking guys, because they have russians looking like this) you can fuck as lot as you want nice sexy girls, because they also like sex!
That's a pretty inane statement, at least it hasn't been my experience. I think there are actually Ukrainian girls for everybody if you play your cards right, and obviously being better-looking, more successful (status) or being a frequent visitor or resident will improve your chances greatly.
Some Ukrainian girls definitely like the way latin guys look (this is a worldwide phenomenon actually), but there are at least an equal amount who go for whiter than white. Mostly they prefer successful and fun guys IME.
Do latin guys have it easier in EE? Perhaps to a certain extent among certain girls, but it cannot be said categorically. It is like saying Greek or Italian women prefer Africans. Or that Brazilian women prefer blonde blue-eyed guys. An African in a club, provided he's got some game, is definitely going to get some attention anywhere. It hardly means that the local devage on average prefers them.
Beyond that, I suspect that the same girl who is telling you she prefers Greek (or dark-skinned guys) is telling some English guy that she prefers white Anglos a week later. Everything is relative.
In Ukraine the more money you have the hotter you are regarded to be by the local female population.Hotness is directly related to amount of money in disposal.
But it is possible to have girls for free,a lot of girls because simply there are not many rich men to fulfill all the girls' needs,so many girls have to compromise.
As a foreigner you offer the foreign penis which is quite a thrill for the local girls,it is called the thrill of the western penis.
Street Sleuth
01-26-09, 14:49
Ahh seems that stereotypes of Italians are everywhere... I more often can be taken as Russian, or nord European... and I'm Italian.. It depends from where you are... and for where your family arrives!!!
Some southern guys look like swedes or so (blond, blue eyes, they have been invaded by Vikings) a guy living on the next house can be dark, with short hair like africans, because they have been invaded by arabs too...
So there is no "Italian type" it's only in ads you see it!
Just my two cents...
IT
PS I have never been refused anywhere, in Russia o in Kiev this have alsto much to do with how you are dressed... If the guy at the entrance looks and see expencive Italian shoes and an expencive Italian siut he will let you in, do not matter how ugly you are!
Yes, I perfectly well understand that not all Italians are darker skinned. But my comments were geared toward the Greek guy, who claimed Ukrainians preferred darker skinned guys over whiter skinned - which is generally not the case.
You mentioned you are Italian, but mentioned you are of the type that could be recognized as Northern European, as you aren't darker skinned. This is why you've never had problems getting into any club - its not that they don't like Italians - its the darker skin (which some Italians have, some don't). If you are a light skinned Italian, you won't have a problem. If you are a darker skinned Italian, you could be wearing a $5,000 suit, and get rejected. It is not all about clothes....racism is quite high in the region...although clothing is very important to Ukrainians.
Street Sleuth
01-26-09, 14:54
PS I have never been refused anywhere, in Russia o in Kiev this have alsto much to do with how you are dressed... If the guy at the entrance looks and see expencive Italian shoes and an expencive Italian siut he will let you in, do not matter how ugly you are!
Further to my point - its not about general appearance, regarding entry refusal - its about race. If you are light skinned, fat, ugly, and decently dressed, you can get into any club in Kiev. If you are dark skinned, of model looks, wearing the best clothing available, you can, and often will, be rejected.
In any event, you do have to dress well. But race is a very important factor.
My original point was that the main race issue is that Ukrainians don't like Turks, Arabs, Magrebs, etc. If you are a Greek, Italian, or Swede for that matter, and have dark skin, they'll take you for a Turk, Arab, or Magreb, and reject you.
Street Sleuth
01-26-09, 14:56
Is this really that remarkable? Young good looking guys can fuck Ukrainian girls? Why even go to Ukraine if you're young and a former basketball player? I'm pretty confident you could fuck girls in any country in the world.
A young, good looking dark-skinned Greek or Italian (disclaimer - I am NOT saying ALL Greeks and Italians are dark-skinned!...I am referring to those that are!), would actually have much more success in Scandinavia and the US getting laid than in Ukraine.
I have no doubt that such types would bang countless numbers of girls in the resort areas of Greece, or in the main cities of Northern Europe and the US. I would question their success in Ukraine.
Getting totally free sex in the Slavic world, by a Western guy, is near impossible - despite what many ego-centric posters will go on about here. You may not pay a direct P4P fee - but you'll pay for expensive dinners, gifts, trips - something....Hello all,
I gotta disagree with you. In my time here either visiting or living I've experienced the following:-
1. Arrived at a club, went to the bar, said hello to the girl beside me asked if she was a good kisser, she said "yes", I kissed her then took her home. 0 cents.
2. At home one evening and got a call from my mate as he had a spare girl and could they all call over. 30 mins later I'm in the sack with Olga. 0 cents.
3. After accepting a challenge to "pull on Kreschatyk" I talk with Natasha who works in Metrograd and has just finished work. She asks what I am doing in Kiev and keeping a straight face I replied "looking for you", took her hand and brought her to my place. 0 cents
However, my definition of "freebie" does extend to "a reasonable amount of money spent on courting a girl without in effect paying directly for sex, but falls a long way short of expensive gifts and trips etc" and I can assure you that my success ratio here is 10 times that of anywhere else I have been. Perhaps a multiple of 30 considering the age bracket targetted.
The ego-centric guys here do get the results claimed as indeed they are ego-centric. I know many guys here who don't get success because to quote "these girls should come to me"!
IL
George Red
01-26-09, 22:04
A young, good looking dark-skinned Greek or Italian (disclaimer. I am NOT saying ALL Greeks and Italians are dark-skinned! I am referring to those that are! ), would actually have much more success in Scandinavia and the US getting laid than in Ukraine.
I have no doubt that such types would bang countless numbers of girls in the resort areas of Greece, or in the main cities of Northern Europe and the US. I would question their success in Ukraine.what is the difference in europe s big northern cities? They have more money also in w. Europe so we supose no financial motive, don't QUESTION, it is something like the same ATTIDUDE Ucraina & Skandinavia women, if you look difirent and good and dark skin, not "gipsy", and also you look like "I have money to spent", you have great succes because it is logic is it true that all we try to get taned in summer to look better?
I also like brazilian girls better than the spainish girls!
LifeSavour
01-26-09, 22:11
I agree with ya! (ya, is not in the Russian sense as ME! ) xa xa (ha ha)
George Red
01-26-09, 22:15
Further to my point - its not about general appearance, regarding entry refusal - its about race. If you are light skinned, fat, ugly, and decently dressed, you can get into any club in Kiev. If you are dark skinned, of model looks, wearing the best clothing available, you can, and often will, be rejected.
In any event, you do have to dress well. But race is a very important factor.
My original point was that the main race issue is that Ukrainians don't like Turks, Arabs, Magrebs, etc. If you are a Greek, Italian, or Swede for that matter, and have dark skin, they'll take you for a Turk, Arab, or Magreb, and reject you.
Your point is true but...
1. We are not "gipsys"(greeks and italian and spanish men)
2 usually we dress much better than the average men, of europe and states
So I don't see any reason to get rejected anywhere, never happened to me, except of our clubs in athens, but there was other reasons there! (somekind of showoff politic, only vip persons alowded, but was just a lousy marketing policy, failed 1000% anyway)
Street Sleuth
01-27-09, 01:09
Hello all,
I gotta disagree with you. In my time here either visiting or living ....IL
Again, I know I didn't make it perfectly clear, but my comments were geared towards visiting types - not those that have had the chance to live extensively in country.
I have lived extensively - and, yes - have had total freebies.
However, for someone coming to town for a week or two, who is going to be exposed to central Kiev, it is unlikely. It may have happened that you said to a girl, "are you a good kisser", and within minutes you were in bed - congrats. Problem is, you are giving a very false sense of hope to guys who read this board and are going to Kiev for short trips. Generally speaking, and I stand by this statement, one night stands are much less common in Eastern Europe than in Western Europe/North America.
Street Sleuth
01-27-09, 01:14
"a reasonable amount of money spent on courting a girl"
You are also, thus, referring to a reasonable amount of time courting a girl - something visitors don't have. And you are also playing on a girls expectation of future benefits of being your boyfriend - which you may or may not intend to become, but she doesn't know that, and, if you effectively courted her, she will sleep with you, and end up with nothing.
I too would count that as a 'freebie'. However, its a freebie that you got away with (as the girl didn't really intend it be thus - she was hoping for a boyfriend), and it wasn't a one-night stand, which is what I am really referring to.
AColonizer
01-27-09, 01:24
You all, guys, are right but pretty confusion with mixing freebies and P4P.
A nice, fit, young man with the right approach can get freebies in all over the world, and in easier way than not-nice-not-ugly men with a "good-boy" approach. The requirement "nice-fit-young" (and a lot of "bastard") is usually necessary with freebies.
But with the P4P women, the only requirement is the skill to negotiate with money. It is a sad laugh to read people looking for P4P in jacket and tie.
About women's behaviour, in general, both freebies and P4P, first they suck as many cocks as possible for pleasure and/or for money, but when they need to stop their adventurous lives, then they choice economical-steady men, with an important job carrer and/or a considerable capital.
AColonizer
01-27-09, 11:00
Yes, that's true: unreal hopes.
The trick is, about freebies: if you fuck easily in your own country, then you fuck easier in FSU. If you don't fuck in your own country, probably you don't fuck in FSU too.
Again, I know I didn't make it perfectly clear, but my comments were geared towards visiting types - not those that have had the chance to live extensively in country.
I have lived extensively - and, yes - have had total freebies.
However, for someone coming to town for a week or two, who is going to be exposed to central Kiev, it is unlikely. It may have happened that you said to a girl, "are you a good kisser", and within minutes you were in bed - congrats. Problem is, you are giving a very false sense of hope to guys who read this board and are going to Kiev for short trips. Generally speaking, and I stand by this statement, one night stands are much less common in Eastern Europe than in Western Europe/North America.
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