View Full Version : Giotto's Stories
i woke up this morning, and it was sunday! and what is so special on sundays? no, it is not swimming pool party day – it is the day i usually eat a goulashsoup in biergarten soi 7 :) ! and have a massage afterwards :d !
so i checked my mails, visited the construction site (aaarrgghhh, had a short heart attack and have the workers break down one misplaced wall), did all the usual daily paperwork – and it was 1:30 pm, when i was ready to go. the most difficult problem to solve is then – where do i go today? i had a coffee on our hotel bar – and discussed this issue internally with me, and decided then to go to darling massage today. hadn’t been there already for a longer time.
i took a motorbike taxi to soi 7 first, to have my goulashsoup first. i realized that it was quite empty there. i could easily find a place at the main bar, which is usually packed on sundays at 2 pm. i remembered my report about the renovation of biergarten, and my thoughts that time, that the place somehow lost ambience. today i could feel more clearly what the reason for that might be: the ceiling is way too high! and not enough wood and plants in there…
anyway, the goulashsoup was good as usual, and i moved on to darling’s. arrived there at around 3:30 pm. when i walked in i met one of the papasans at the car park. two papasans are working there since years now, one is taller (but not really tall) and skinny, and the other one smaller and has a bit more weight (not really corpulent). the papasan who usually takes care of me is the taller skinny one, and within all those years i know him now he never gave me any reasonable recommendation. today i walked in with the smaller fatter one, and he directly lead me to the fishbowl.
around 15 girls in the fishbowl. and, for darling, an unusual high number of lookers in there – for my taste of course. and things got even better, unexpectedly. “you like skinny girls”, the papasan told me, as if he knows me since years, “take no. nnnnn!” (haha, and now you want to know the number, right?). i looked at him, completely surprised, either he mixed me up with somebody else, or he guessed – or he watched me over the years and knew my style. i looked at the girl, skinny, sporty, not too young, for sure from isaan, darker skin ( with best regards to oth :) ), nice smile – btw. black hair and brown eyes, very unusual ! – i immediately decided to give it a try.
paid at the cashier and off we went to a room – next surprise, a room on the ground floor! in there a new bath tub, a new tv, new towels, the wall paper still looked a bit run-down (they could have renovated that, too) but all in all – surprise, not bad! the usual mirrors on the walls and – over the bed! i like that.
we ordered drinks, my masseuse prepared the bath. all her necessary tools, bottles, etc. etc. were brought in by some service staff, she did not leave the room one single minute (which was the next surprise). after 5 min. i was in the bath tub, and watched my masseuse undressing – a perfect slim body, made for me, nothing to complain. she moved into the bath tub - and the “torture” started. to be honest - i was not prepared on what would happen in the next 90 minutes. everything was different.
instead of simply being washed and receiving the standard darling body rub it started with a sensual underwater massage of my legs. i closed my eyes and enjoyed. what followed was always a combination of washing and sensual massage, very slowly, from the feet up to my head. i usually never allow my hair to be shampooed in a massage place, but this time i did. and i received a combination of hair wash and head massage in the bath tub. it was – really good! i was completely relaxed, i nearly fell asleep!
she then returned to the darling program and concentrated on the main male part. washing and sensual balls massage, followed by bbbjtc – perfectly performed. i usually prefer action at the end of the session after a massage, but today darling and the masseuse had taken over the initiative, and i followed their directives – who am i to oppose? – all that happened within the first 30 min. of the session.
so far, so good, that girl was good with the extras, so i prepared myself for a lousy massage. usually it is like that, you never get all services on a high quality level (and if you get – don’t tell anybody about that specific girl and keep her for you only!).
shower, wipe off with towel - we moved over to the bed. i was ordered to turn around and received a massage, basically thai style. when she started i could immediately feel, that this skinny person had really strong hands. she knew the pressure points, the muscle anatomy – this lady knew how to massage professionally! but even better – in between she even walked on my back, she also knew this (is it chinese???) technique! – unbelievable!!
after half an hour back and leg massage she ordered me to turn around. i was completely happy and relaxed. --- but what disappointment (:)), she did not immediately proceed with the massage, she was more interested in – my main male part, which at that time seamed to be dead. so she took measure to reanimate it – and i was raped! really true. and though i thought in the beginning that she made it up a bit with all the moaning – i think she really enjoyed was into it. i should have asked the darling staff afterwards, they must have heard it.
after i was cleaned up there was not much time left, but i was ordered to sit up and receive the final shoulder massage – performed with her arms and elbows. wow, good. and then the final shock: “you want one more time?”, after the time was already up!
panic! - “no, no”, was my reaction, and i decided to organize my getaway from this room and darlings – that woman was unbelievable talented, but way too much for me. shower, get dressed – and then i tipped her with thb 1,000.00 for this extraordinary service.
on the way outside, i met the papasan. he did not asked anything. he only smiled. seams that he knew what he was recommending. and for me it was the first time that i tipped a papasan in darling massage.
what a horrible sunday afternoon – now you know how much i have to suffer here in bangkok! btw.: how was your day out there :) ?
giotto
I guess that we probably need to pick up this number directly in the Lodge to have advantage of this service as well.
I am fine with that, if the girls recommendation would be somehow exclusive to your guests as otherwise the service may go down when the girls is then supposed to have no rest time anymore.
Recommend to stick to this also in the expected PM wave where especially the 0 posters might ask for this number.
Just my two cents
regards
Brain666
<...> around 15 girls in the fishbowl. and, for darling, an unusual high number of lookers in there – for my taste of course. and things got even better, unexpectedly. “you like skinny girls”, the papasan told me, as if he knows me since years, “take no. nnnnn!” (haha, and now you want to know the number, right?). i looked at him, completely surprised, either he mixed me up with somebody else, or he guessed – or he watched me over the years and knew my style. i looked at the girl, skinny, sporty, not too young, for sure from isaan, darker skin ( with best regards to oth :) ), nice smile – btw. black hair and brown eyes, very unusual ! – i immediately decided to give it a try. <...>
giotto
so, how many drinks will it take to get her number? :) :)
while not quite as sensuous, i had a fine afternoon racing karts at ptt speedway in rca, then later met a friend at biergarten.
i have the same impression of the remodel, and the choices were limited and not so good at 11pm. i decided to go home early - maybe i should've ventured a bit further down sukhumvit! :)
-y
So, how many drinks will it take to get her number? :) :)
What do you offer? May be I would exchange the number against a number :) !
Giotto
What do you offer? May be I would exchange the number against a number :) !
Giotto
Such serious negotiations can only take place face-to-face. But I like your opening gambit! :)
Cheers,
-Y
Such serious negotiations can only take place face-to-face. But I like your opening gambit! :)Yi Ren,
No way :D, but I will be with you and Sir Duniawala next monday.
Anybody else out there to join us? All newbies are welcome, too!!! Sir Duniawala will inform us about the results of his work in the TQM department :).
Giotto
Girls / Hostesses are coming and going. Most of the times they come in groups, stay as long until one member of the group has problems, and then they all leave together – next bar.
Since approx. 2 months a girl is working part time here in Livingstone’s, which in the beginning was nearly unnoticed. She came alone, applied for the job, but got the information about us from a friend she obviously worked together with in another bar before (hearsay). She was very shy in the beginning, tried to hide in the darker parts of the bar, and watched all the procedures and bar activities, before she slowly integrated and warmed up.
Let’s call her Starlet. She is around 25 years old (estimation, I could check her record to find details), has at least one kid, and for that the body of a woman – a bit bigger bottom, but overall skinny, beautiful straight shoulders, small sized hips. The body of a woman. But then she carries two dangerous weapons with her: a smile showing all her blinding white teeth, and her eyes, for which she should need a firearms license.
After watching her during the past few weeks I came to the result, that she is one of the most dangerous women I have seen in our bar up to now.
The danger results from the combination of behavior and beauty. When she approaches a customer, or the customer establishes eye contact with her, she seams to be one of the shy well educated well behaving Thai women we all like so much. She never gives the impression to be a professional bar girl, being only after money – no, then men will not expect professional sex techniques with her, but an intensive GFE.
All that starts already when she is invited for a drink – she first does not come close to the customer, sits next to him, communicating as good as possible in her average English, and if he fulfills her minimum requirements she starts to smile. Many customers are already lost then, this smile is so warm and convincing, both then come closer. First hugs, touching, dancing together a little bit…
And then it can get worse, the weapon “eyes” were still not used. She has a kind of switch for that, and in the right moment she can switch her eyes on. I don’t know what happens to the customers, when they are hit from one of this deep looks from her, out of the dark eyes, a kind of energy flow takes place, high voltage … I see the hardest and experienced customers melting away then.
And if he still can resist in this moment both weapons are switch on simultaneously, smile and eyes beaming at the customer, and the resistance breaks. I have seen a young handsome bar owner last week, married to a beautiful Thai woman since 1 year, never touching any girl in the Sports Lounge before, not even talking to somebody – completely lost until 3 am in the morning, only holding, hugging, touching this girl, buying drinks, talking, dancing – and if he was not aware of that everybody knows him and the news would reach his wife somehow he for sure had paid bar fine for this girl and had taken here somewhere to a hotel.
Another customer comes in nowadays, every day at 7 pm. He walks into the bar, asks for here – and if she is not there he leaves immediately. He only comes for her, nothing else can keep him. And if she is there he stays – all night long.
I first though she is really that innocent, needs some time to get warm with a customer, and then things are developing naturally. Today I am not sure about that any more, I somehow feel that she is able to control all that much better than I thought, and that she can switch her weapons on and off whenever she likes. Or may be it is a combination of both, innocence and professionalism, trying again and again to give nice customers a chance, and being disappointed then later that there is no long time commitment following…who knows what she feels.
Those girls are dangerous. Not many customers fall for professional bar girls. Those girls provide a service we expect, and then we say “Good Bye”. This kind of girls need to be saved from the bad bar girl life, they need the support of customers, they need our help, they don’t want to work in a bar – “Please, can you send some money every month and I will wait for you coming back to me next year?” This kind of girls break hearts. They are waking up the father / protector instinct in the men, and combined with this natural beauty and more or less perfect bodies – they have really everything we hunters want. OK, she might not do a blow job as professional as others … but who cares?
I will watch Starlet, and I know she will not stay long in Sports Lounge. She will have a new lover soon, quit working, taking care of him for a while, and when he moves back to USA, Europe or Australia she will receive the monthly payments besides all the other monthly payments she already gets from other customers before – and start working in another bar to find the next victim…
Life is dangerous sometimes – even in bars.
Giotto
Traveler1234
10-06-06, 15:24
My question to you to pass on to Piper1 - will she pass his 'hard-on' test? Then she'll be more dangerous than a black widow :)
My question to you to pass on to Piper1 - will she pass his 'hard-on' test? Then she'll be more dangerous than a black widow :)Traveler1234,
Oh yes, she would pass the 'hard-on' test, be sure about that.
Giotto
Most of you know the story around Teens Massage, and the management promising to improve the service of their three places. I was invited to try it out again, and that’s what I did. The story:
It was Monday, and I woke up at 10 am. Read the newpaper, checked the E-Mails and the stock market – and then the construction site. A damned busy day :) as everybody can imagine, so I decided to take a break at 2 pm – massage. Why not try Teens massage again, they promised so much… OK, Teens 2 in Soi 24/1 . The choice of the day. They (the owners) had invited me, but asked me to wait for one week – ok, that was 8 days ago, everything should be prepared for me.
Entered the place, directly to the reception counter, flowers, nicely decorated, clean, first impression very good. And – the receptionist was the lady which had visited me already for a dinner in Livingstone’s, when we were talking about the problems of those places.
Asked for the photo album and realized that many girls had their day off, but this is not unusual for a Monday. So I asked for a recommendation. The receptionist checked the availability in the ladies waiting room, and came up with her suggestion: X (name changed).
I checked the look of X in the photo album, and was not really convinced. So I asked the receptionist again whether she was skinny – my type of girl, flat stomach etc. etc. . “Yes, of course”, was the answer. OK, who am I not to take the recommendation of the management seriously.
The door opened and X appeared, looking quite different from the pictures of the photo album – and a nice ring of overweight around her hips – exactly that what I do NOT like. And – she was much older than a teen usually is. Here we go, problem no. 1, 2 and 3:
#1) There might be a difference between what a farang thinks that could be described as “skinny”, and what a Thai receptionist thinks. A Thai receptionist of a massage place should be aware of this difference.
#2) Why not publish pictures with the real look of the girls in the photo albums, there are for sure customers which like this kind of girl. As a result of this selection based on unrealistic photos the customer is disappointed already in the beginning of all the experience.
#3) I thought the name of the place was Teens Massage, so some customer might expect that younger girls are working there… but may be I am wrong.
Then a fast information exchange between receptionist and X took place – but I could not follow it so fast. What I heard was the mentioning of the word “VIP” – and the scared face of X when she heard it. She immediately stepped back a bit – and was very careful with everything during all the session. Problem No. 4.
#4) If information must exchange before a session it can be done after the customer was brought to the room, and the massage utensils are fetched by the girl. Then the customer cannot listen.
The room was over average big, clean, shower and all technique ok. But – problem No. 5 and 6.
#5) It would be nice to have a mirror somewhere, especially to reinstall a decent look of the hair after the massage.
#6) Music? Some places really offer music, it is sometimes really relaxing!
Now, I skip the non-existing room decoration, I don’t really need that during a massage, but – some flowers would be nice, a picture on the wall (eg. the pope), why not a bit more wood instead of all metal … but no, equipment needs to be cheap.
The girl disappeared for about 2 min. and came back with all the massage tools and drinks. That’s ok. Other massage places organize that differently – the tools are brought to the room by a maid. Worth to think about it.
Shower. Big shower, real hot water. X appeared in the shower, fully dressed! Yikes! Did she want to wash her dress? Problem No. 7.
#7) During the meeting I was told that the girls are instructed to join the customers during the shower. OK, if the girls shall offer that service they should do it complete, or skip it. To do it half – undressed – is nonsense.
I enjoyed the shower, drying with good towels, back to the massage bench. Oil massage. X had experience in Oil massage, but no professional training. She used too much oil, and she never asked whether I (the customer) liked a stronger or softer massage. So – the massage was average. Mediocre - but became more and more sensual during the session - that’s what I like.
And then – balls massage. That was the absolute plus of this girl. She was good with the balls, she knew how to do, really one of the best balls massage I had up to now. I think that was the reason why the receptionist recommended her.
She was still dressed. And she massaged the balls. And I felt quite good and thought about more, and she was really performing a long balls massage. So it happened as it had to happen – there was no way out any more. “You want special?” Expectec question. “Yes, of course!” To be expected answer. “OK, I take shower...” --- Shit!!!!!!!
I hate that! I hate it! And I will always hate it! And with me most of the customers will hate it! You get me, guys from the management??? We talked about that here, when you asked me how you could improve. We talked exactly about this issue, long time! Did you listen? Did you understand? Do you speak English??? Problem #8.
#8) If a girl wants to give a special massage she should be prepared for that. She should be showered and as far as possible undressed, to avoid unnecessary breaks in all the experience.
X took a shower, wrapped herself in a towel, and tried to fix the mess as good as she could do. She did not ask what kind of service I liked, she simply expected full service. I then guided her into the right direction to finalize all the procedure – my mood was down to zero anyway. I really had expectations, before I went there...
It was not her fault, she tried to do her best.
When I left the receptionist looked at me, smiling and full of expectations how perfect my experience must have been. I simply smiled back – and asked for the E-Mail address of the boss. She could not even give me that E-Mail address. So – most likely you boss will read the result of my test run here in this forum now.
Except the balls massage I did not see any improvement in the important issues we were discussing before. You have a lot of work to do there – there are many places with a lot better service than what I experienced there last Monday.
Let me finally give you a small advice where your root of the problem seams to be:
It starts at the reception. The receptionist should know something about the girls, should give honest recommendations about their qualities and their weaknesses. Customers expect different things, like different types of girls, a receptionist can really help to find the right girl for the customer. Try to understand the customer!
A receptionist should be communicative, try to find out the preferences of the customer in a light and easy talk in the beginning, and the suggest the right girl. Why not telling the customer that X was a bit bigger, but she was balls massage specialist, and gives a sensual mediocre-strong oil massage. And then there is this other girl, younger, skinny, perfect body, Oil massage is good, but balls massage – not so experienced, too young for that. Simply the truth. And then - the customer can decide.
YOU SHOULD NOT RECOMMEND THE FAVORITE OF THE RECEPTIONIST, YOU SHOULD TRY TO FIND THE GIRL THE CUSTOMER MOST LIKELY PREFERS!!!
In the moment I will NOT change the rating about that place. But I will go there ONE MORE TIME. If the experience is again like last Monday this place will appear on my No-No list.
Giotto
And then – balls massage. That was the absolute plus of this girl. She was good with the balls.
GiottoExcuse me for being ignorant, but what is a "Balls Massage"?
Is it:
a) A Massage using chinese medecine balls?
b) Massaging your testicles?
c) A massage from a Katoey using his/her "balls"?
Please enlighten the ignorant.
Ozzy Indo
What a horrible Sunday afternoon – now you know how much I have to suffer here in Bangkok! Btw.: How was your day out there :) ?
GiottoBestard!
Excuse me for being ignorant, but what is a "Balls Massage"?Ozzy Indo,
A balls massage usually takes place on a couple of basket balls, on which your back is rolled back and forth until your backbone is elastic again like that one of a 4 year old child :D .
Giotto
Ozzy Indo,
A balls massage usually takes place on a couple of basket balls, on which your back is rolled back and forth until your backbone is elastic again like that one of a 4 year old child :D .
GiottoI just read more reports by you on "massage places" and I think I worked out what it really is.
Is that kind of massage potentially dangerous? What happens when they do Shiatsu on your nuts?
Ozzy
Old Thai Hand
10-16-06, 17:26
I been under the weather for more than a few days from some dodgy clam(s) (haha), or something and lost track of Nige somewhere in Pattyland. It seems he set off on a bender all on his lonesome, doing a bunk the other night and I thought for cert he’d gone for a Burton.
Then, early yesterday morning ran into him toddling down Beach Road, all wonky-like, going nowhere fast, not givin a monkey, a bit whiffy, to be sure, no shoes, almost bare-arsed, just wearing a pair of those shiny Thigh boxers, showin a bit of a builders bum on him, and goin commando, it seemed, judgin from the free-wheelin nature of his goolies and tadger. His dosh was around his neck in some over-priced bag he’d got off some Thigh gannet. No footie shirt in sight on our Nige, though and loads of Thighs gawping at him. Trying to gen what he’d been at, I asked, “What’s the crack there, Nige!”
He waffled on and on, like a right wally for a bit, as is his habit, but finally, with a gleam in his young eye, Nige went off… “T’other day, I was gaggin for some cheap gash and [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) and went on a mission. Don’t remember much. Ended up in some [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) palace on Soy Post Orifice (haha, good one, Nige), I think it’s called, off my face with the whirlies and my head wreckin. There were loads of trogs with faces like kites and gashes like welly-tops, but cheap and worth a squirt. Remember some wrinkly Doris with a face like an old boot with my knob in her gob – quite a willy warmer, she was, though. At one point, I was in some frothy tub with a couple of brill birds, and I reckon that’s where I lost me footie kit. All in all I was pretty well bevvied up and remember I had a few moments talkin to God on the white telephone. Bunked up with some buff Thigh birds on me adventures, all nicely put together with loverly jubblies with serious Bruce Lees on ‘em. I copped these boxers off some Thigh bloke, as I couldn’t be fucked sussin out where me own clobber got to. Woke this morning, with me noggin bangin something fierce lyin on the beach. Least wise, still got me dosh.”
Quite an adventure for a bright-eyed lad from Lutton.
Anyway, I got Nige back to the gaff so he could get the whiff off with a wash and grab a bit of kip. After, so as to be kitted out proper, I took Nige to buy some knock-off footie clobber so he’d be a right shirt with the Thigh birds at all the gogos.
That Walking Street is blinding. Makes Bangers look a right, overpriced shithole. Loads of stunning slappers all fancyin Nige and I, telling us we’re handsome and the like. Never get that back in Lutton, eh Nige? Birds there are just as likely to tellya to fuck off as look at ya. Not like these brilliant Thigh birds, smilin and grabbin our knobs at every turn. Wicked! And, they all want to go with us, too! They said as much. Must be Nige’s new kit gettin them all weak n wet. Anyway, me still not bein right from the clams and all and Nige bein, well Nige, we were soon off our faces and screamin and laughin our arses off at various gogos, when suddenly we stumbled into a place called Covent Garden Complex. Fuck me, if it didn’t just look like the Covent Garden of me dreams. London could do with one of these, I told Nige. But, just then, breakin my reverie, we fuckin, ran into some lads from home, all pissed up lookin for some agro, done up in that shite Chav-globber, thinkin they’re the fuckin dogs bollocks and all. One of these little pillow-biters got all up in Nige’s face, spoutin some cack, for no particular reason as is their fashion. So, Nige being Nige, head-butted the geezer, put the boot in, and generally fucked this Chav bum bandit every which way but Sunday. His mates, seein that you don’t mess with the likes of Nige and I, pissed off outta there, too fucked to fight. A bit full of [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) and vinegar by this point, Nige dragged me into some place called Boesche. That place is the fuckin dogs bollocks, ain’t it? Birds in a bath, all lathered up and doing the bump and grind while Nige and I gawped at em sitting on a couch like the one in me Auntie’s bed-sit back home. Next thing I know, our Nige’s got his kit off and in the tub with the birds. The birds started screamin and laughin as Nige tried to get a leg over right then and there, but was too fucked to manage it and just kept slidin back in the tub. Suddenly, outta nowhere, a firm of those little Thigh fucks you see at all the gogos came at Nige to get the geezer outta the water. Nige tried to do a duck and dive. But, for little fuckers, those Thigh gits are tough as old Harry. Not wantin any grief from the old bill, we fucked off, without so much as a by your leave before these Thigh gits could give us any agro. Nige can be a bit of a headcase when he’s on the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) and since he’d gone all mental on that Chavscum, already, I thought it best if we legged it back to the gaff. We’d already had a wicked night out on the tiles, but things were goin all pear shaped and we were too fucked to pull any prossies, anyway.
So, right now, I’m just sittin at some bar with some fat, ugly Dorises drinkin some Thigh [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140), tryin to make my noggin feel right, starin out at the lovely Thigh sea, while Nige grabs a bit of well-earned kip. Fuckin paradise Pattyland is. Beach, birds, [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140), pub grub (good sarnies and chip butties) and plenty of lads and Chavscum to fuck up. What more could a couple of blokes ask for?
Old Trafford Hand
<...> Anyway, me still not bein right from the clams and all and Nige bein, well Nige, we were soon off our faces and screamin and laughin our arses off at various gogos, when suddenly we stumbled into a place called Covent Garden Complex. Fuck me, if it didn’t just look like the Covent Garden of me dreams. London could do with one of these, I told Nige. <...>
Old Trafford Hand
Doesn't sound a bit like the Covent Gardens I know in London. Perhaps we could talk to the management of Punch 'n Judy's? :)
-Y
...Is that kind of massage potentially dangerous? What happens when they do Shiatsu on your nuts?...Ozzy Indo,
Potentially yes, but I found it most enjoyable up to now...:) . It might depend on the size, the 4.36 kg ball from Mr. Vice President might be a target to Shiatsu ... . The providers can feed all the family in Isaan for one week with it :D:D:D !
Giotto
“T’other day, I was gaggin for some cheap gash and [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) and went on a mission. Don’t remember much. Ended up in some [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) palace on Soy Post Orifice (haha, good one, Nige), I think it’s called, off my face with the whirlies and my head wreckin. There were loads of trogs with faces like kites and gashes like welly-tops, but cheap and worth a squirt. Remember some wrinkly Doris with a face like an old boot with my knob in her gob – quite a willy warmer, she was, though. At one point, I was in some frothy tub with a couple of brill birds, and I reckon that’s where I lost me footie kit. Dear OTH,
I do love your stories, but geeezzzz, are they hard to read.
As English (if that is what you call it) is my 3rd language, it does take some time for me to digest your verbal incantations. I am learning. Slowly.
Keep up the good work. Please tell me if I have translated correctly.
Attempted Translation:
----------------------
The other day, I had a desire for an inexpensive "available lady" accompanied with a libation; thus embarken on a search. I ended up in a drinking establishment on Soi Post Body-Hole. I recollect being, drunk, my head spinning and a headache. There were a significant number of unatractive females with faces shaped like paper airplanes with huge vaginas, but they were inexpensive and worth a cheap thrill. I recollect an older woman who resembeled aged footwear in whom I had stuck my penis - she was adept at warming my "johnson". At one point, I was bathing in suds with a few beautiful ladies, which I realised, must have been the juncture at which I had mislaid my attire.
Did I understand you correctly?
Ozzy Indo
Old Thai Hand
10-19-06, 15:15
Dear OTH,
I do love your stories, but geeezzzz, are they hard to read.
As English (if that is what you call it) is my 3rd language, it does take some time for me to digest your verbal incantations. I am learning. Slowly.
Keep up the good work. Please tell me if I have translated correctly.
Attempted Translation:
----------------------
The other day, I had a desire for an inexpensive "available lady" accompanied with a libation; thus embarken on a search. I ended up in a drinking establishment on Soi Post Body-Hole. I recollect being, drunk, my head spinning and a headache. There were a significant number of unatractive females with faces shaped like paper airplanes with huge vaginas, but they were inexpensive and worth a cheap thrill. I recollect an older woman who resembeled aged footwear in whom I had stuck my penis - she was adept at warming my "johnson". At one point, I was bathing in suds with a few beautiful ladies, which I realised, must have been the juncture at which I had mislaid my attire.
Did I understand you correctly?
Ozzy Indo
Yes. perfect. So, what seems to be the problem? ROFLMAO
Dear OTH,
<...>
Attempted Translation:
----------------------
The other day, I had a desire for an inexpensive "available lady" accompanied with a libation; thus embarken on a search. I ended up in a drinking establishment on Soi Post Body-Hole. I recollect being, drunk, my head spinning and a headache. There were a significant number of unatractive females with faces shaped like paper airplanes with huge vaginas, but they were inexpensive and worth a cheap thrill. I recollect an older woman who resembeled aged footwear in whom I had stuck my penis - she was adept at warming my "johnson". At one point, I was bathing in suds with a few beautiful ladies, which I realised, must have been the juncture at which I had mislaid my attire.
Ozzy Indo
OMG! And I thought the original post was a hoot! Ozzie, my man, a toast to you. And who says the forums have gone to the dogs? :)
Cheers,
-Y
It was a normal Bangkok working day – and after stressful 2 hours I decided to go for a massage. Now I deeply regret this decision. The story:
It was Wednesday this week. I was ready for a massage, and decided to go to Akane 33, I had not too much time.
I entered, selected the V3 “torture” from the menu, and realized, that my standard providers were not in, either busy or day off. So I selected a new provider, which I never had before. Off we went to the room, I got a coffee, undressed, moved to the shower room wrapped in a towel. Business as usual in Akane, everything seamed to be good.
Back to the room the first unusual event happened – the provider diappeared for taking a shower herself. Usually one gets a massage first – but I appreciate if the provider is prepared for everything, and no delays occur in the later stage of the action. She returned 5 min. later, wrapped in a towel. “Massage first?” she asked with a smile, but she concentrated already on my manhood which immediately showed an increase if its size.
So things went on unusual, the start-up massage ended fast, and all activities from the lady were concentrated on my best part. I liked it somehow, so I let her proceed. My hands were everybody around on her body, and I could feel here being more and more excited, too. She then got a condom out of her handbag and put it on the sideboard to have it available, if necessary.
She proceeded to give me BBBJ, and she did an excellent job. Her oral penetration was supported by a strong grasp from her hand around my penis shaft, and she started up-and-down movements there, synchronized with her oral activities. I myself was busy with making her enjoy as much as I could do, under this unfavorable working conditions. And then I decided to simply enjoy, and let her do – she was really into it and very keen to make me come this way.
And then it happened. Readers without strong nerves should stop reading now…
I started to come, and she felt her success. With a strong downward movement of her hand she tried to optimize my sensation. This movement was too much for frenulum, this narrow membrane on the underside of the foreskin. And it broke!
Pain! Pain!! Pain!!! Yiii-hiiii-hiiii-hiiiiiii-hiiiiiiiiiiikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I came – and in the same second I virtually jumped under the roof of the building, trying to control not to express this pain too loud. There are only open cubicles in Akane, and next to my room were customers in other cubicles. My body was shaking and shivering from the pain and the attempt to control the pain.
Blood everywhere. A real strong flow of blood, I had to use a towel immediately, supported by pressure of my hands, to stop the bleeding. And please don’t make me remember how her face and mouth looked like…
She was completely shocked, “Sorry, Sorry, I did not know!” She thought I was injured before, and she hand opened an existing wound again, but no, she simply had ruptured the frenulum from the penis head. A clear cut – I still don’t understand how this can happen, may be it was supported by a sharp finger nail or tooth – I don’t know it.
I needed approx. 10 min. to get the bleeding and the pain under control, to accept the situation and calm down. Pain, so much pain. But – I also remember that the pain boosted the orgasm to an extend I had never experienced before – but to be honest, I also don’t want to experience it this way again. SM is obviously not my thing.
We had at least 45 min. left, and she proceeded to give me a massage ( I needed to get the tensions out of my body ), but she did that very very soft – obviously scared that my skin would break now everywhere. May be she also knew that there would not be a good tip today, and she lost motivation.
I got out of Akane later then, and moved carefully back to my office. That day I many times went upstairs to my room, to examine the injury and fight with the pain. Sometimes I had problems to find my best part – it was so small, I have never seen it in that size before. I think it had enough, was in complete strike, and I will have to send it to a psychiatrist to motivate it to take risks of intercourse or any other sexual activities again.
And the next problem were of course predetermined: Mrs. Giotto is a horny woman. And worse, the days before she had her menstruation and this day was the first day afterwards – and performance was expected and required.
Oh, I was sick that night, I really felt bad, and then I got all those E-Mails and had to work until 5 am in the morning. Coming back to the room the TV was still running, and I thought, that I did not wait long enough. But luckily she was sleeping.
Last night then I went to the room early, and pretended to sleep already when she came upstairs. But she obviously wanted to give it a try, and her hands were searching for my manhood to make it wake up - Yiii-hiiii-hiiii-hiiiiiii-hiiiiiiiiiiikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bleeding again. Pain again. You want details ? No…
Mrs. Giotto felt extremely bad, she thought she had caused the problem. And – to prevent this from happening again, and to give my manhood some time to recover I could not tell her the truth. I feel bad about that, but it is the best solution for everybody in the moment.
So – my sex-life has come to an abrupt end. A follow-up on massage parlors – only to think about it causes massive pain. I consider moving back to Europe or other sex-free zones, to stay here in Thailand amongst all this beautiful horny ladies is – under this circumstances – torture pure.
Giotto (:(:(:(:(:()
PS: If somebody comes here, laughing or joking about this story, I will rip of his balls and eat them for breakfast!
PS: If somebody comes here, laughing or joking about this story, I will rip of his balls and eat them for breakfast!
G, I will see you Sunday for a good laugh. I only have 1, hope you're hungry! (4.36 kg)
:D :D :D
(in all honesty, I felt my manhood recoil in horror as I was reading this, but it is too good a story to NOT give you a "hard" time about it. hehehe)
Hi Giotto,
I am very sorry for you, i can feel the pain
here in Holland.
All the best......!Thanks, Paulothai,
You are obviously the only human being out there who still has a heart ...
These BESTARDS below are real BASTARDS!!!
Giotto
Hi Giotto,
I am very sorry for you, i can feel the pain
here in Holland.
All the best......!Fuck, poor bastard. I had a mate in school once who ripped his frenulum while having a wank over Chris Evert-Lloyd during Wimbeldon ( Yeah, a fucken long time ago), he was never the same!
Are you going to get it repaired? If so, be quick, otherwise it won't take, if not, let us know how it goes!
Better not let the cook near your frenulum, G.
She might have a new special on the board for tonight!
Better not let the cook near your frenulum, G.
She might have a new special on the board for tonight!Thanks, Mr. Vice President,
You mean Thai Beef Salad :) ?
Giotto
Thanks, Mr. Vice President,
You mean Thai Beef Salad :) ?
Giotto
Yes, but a very small serving. ;)
Thanks, Mr. Vice President,
You mean Thai Beef Salad :) ?
Giotto
But wouldn't that be German Beef Thai Salad? :D
Couldn't resist.
but I do feel your PAIN!!!
good one Duni. :D
actually, I have decided to never order the catfish salad again. For those of you who have eaten it, you will know what I mean :(
Petrol Pete
10-20-06, 16:04
It happened t me some 20 years ago. OK agree, painful, surprising, unknown, all of that. But Dr. gave me an ointment put on for a couple of days. ....and it was fine, cannot recall if completly torn off or what. But my biggest problem was having sex again, I was terrified. So I started very slowly, with a condom.
P.S. Its OK usually you dick falls off in couple of weeks and you grow another.
...Are you going to get it repaired? If so, be quick, otherwise it won't take, if not, let us know how it goes!Oh, no, Petemcc,
Don't tell me that I need to go to a hospital to get it repaired - I see the doctors with their smiles in their faces and the needles in their hands already.
FUCK!!!
Giotto
I had a mate in school once who ripped his frenulum while having a wank over Chris Evert-Lloyd during Wimbeldon
Petemcc, your friend didn't get out much, did he? :(
G, you haven't seen a doctor yet? WTF are you waiting for?
Ask Guido. Maybe he has a special ointment to help it heal. :D:D:D
... I started to come... With a strong downward movement of her hand she tried to optimize my sensation. This movement was too much for frenulum, this narrow membrane on the underside of the foreskin. And it broke!
Blood everywhere. A real strong flow of blood, I had to use a towel immediately, supported by pressure of my hands, to stop the bleeding.Ouch! With frenulums like that, who needs ...
Dr. G, time to be circumspect and consider a circumcision - you'll never have that problem again. And now is the time to do it - you are damaged goods anyway. Time to give your woody wood-pecker a surgical face-lift! :D
... consider a circumcision ...a surgical face-lift!Circumcision :(:(:( !
And I thought I had friends here in the forum. The Vice President, the Head of the TQM Department, Pipeman ... I see you all sitting behind your screens and laughing your asses off!!!
BESTARDS!
Giotto
:D :D :D :D Sir,
We will have to talk about this. Seriously!
BTW: Do you want to buy back all the "medicine" you brought from India - I DON'T NEED IT ANY MORE :) !!!
Giotto
...
P.S. Its OK usually you dick falls off in couple of weeks and you grow another.Petrol Pete,
Welcome to the forum. This was your first report - well done!
ROFLMAO! YOU BEASTARD!.
One day you will come to the Lodge. And I hope you have 3 balls. Because - two of them are already mine now, for breakfast after the day you arrive.
LOL! :D:D:D!
Giotto
Sir,
BTW: Do you want to buy back all the "medicine" you brought from India - I DON'T NEED IT ANY MORE :) !!!
Giotto
I'll be down Saturday night to pick it up, since you don't need it. I don't even know what it does, but if it's half as effective as 1Ball's purple pills (according to Piper1), then I'm game! :)
BTW, do you think The Persistent One could be farmed out somewhere for Saturday and Sunday night? I've just got word one of my regular Thai ladies is coming to visit tomorrow. I *really* want to come down and watch F1 qualifying and the race, but things could get a bit, uh, crowded with my friend and The Persistent One. :)
Cheers,
-Y
Yi Ren - 1Ball's purple pill really was a sleeping pill (I'd mentioned to 1Ball that I'm a chronic insomniac, and he tried to help me out). The girls and I still had a laugh when we saw the folded piece of paper under the door of room 114 with what I thought was a blue pill wrapped inside (I actually am color-blind). When I read 1Ball's note on the piece of paper, I realized what a thoughtful bestard he is. I still have 2/3 of the pill left if you want it!
As for the Indian "medicine" - what is it? I bought some Kamagra Jelly (generic viagra) for a couple of fellow Dubai mongers 6 months ago in BKK, but kept them hidden in my home office. New housemaid found them the other day and gave them to Wildcat. I had some explaining to do. The maid is too efficent, but she looks like Jungle Girl, so I forgive her :).
I actually tried some of the gel - yuckkkkk! Tastes bad, bitter after-taste - and didn't have any extra effect on the towel holder.
I actually tried some of the gel - yuckkkkk! Tastes bad, bitter after-taste - and didn't have any extra effect on the towel holder.
I don't believe you are supposed to eat it, Piper, unless maybe miss Wildcat wanted your tongue to grow harder longer..... ;)
Yi Ren, I'll be there Sunday night. Point out "The Persistent One" to me, I might be strong armed into occupying her for a fee of course.
Sir,
We will have to talk about this. Seriously!
BTW: Do you want to buy back all the "medicine" you brought from India - I DON'T NEED IT ANY MORE :) !!!
Giotto
SOLLY. GOODS ONCE SOLD NOT RETURN:D
But, the Bestard Sharks are already circling at your door for the genuine stuff.
BTW. did you take a full or half of the Vitamin C when you went to Akane. It's 20 mg not the 10 mg they sell in the BKK pharmacy for which a punter paid 1000B for 4. (See BKK reports). Maybe that was the problem. Your thing went XXXL instead of L.
ROFLMAO
...BTW, do you think The Persistent One could be farmed out somewhere for Saturday and Sunday night? I've just got word one of my regular Thai ladies is coming to visit tomorrow. I *really* want to come down and watch F1 qualifying and the race, but things could get a bit, uh, crowded with my friend and The Persistent One. :)Good Morning,
Up to now a pain free day! :)
Yi Ren,
I think we can arrange that - she will not be so "persistant" when you come here with a friend. She knows the rules.
Giotto
Yi Ren - 1Ball's purple pill really was a sleeping pill (I'd mentioned to 1Ball that I'm a chronic insomniac, and he tried to help me out). <...> I still have 2/3 of the pill left if you want it!
heh. Sorry, I wasn't clear: I meant that if Sir D's Indian medicine did what it's supposed to do half as well as the purple pill you wrote about, then it must be GoodStuff (tm). :)
As for the Indian "medicine" - what is it?
My guess is generic Vitamin V or C pills
I actually tried some of the gel - yuckkkkk! Tastes bad, bitter after-taste - and didn't have any extra effect on the towel holder.
If it's a gel, shouldn't you be applying it to the area you want to affect? :)
Cheers,
-Y
Yi Ren, I'll be there Sunday night. Point out "The Persistent One" to me, I might be strong armed into occupying her for a fee of course.
Why, 1Ball, I'm touched by your thoughtfulness. Is this a great group or what? :)
Cheers,
-Y
She tried to optimize my sensation. This movement was too much for frenulum, this narrow membrane on the underside of the foreskin. And it broke!Poor G-Man.
Every person in this forum feels for you.
No one true male would feel anything but complete and utter sympathy.
Upon reading about your dilemma, I am sure everyone in the forum clutched their groin and whinced in complete sympathy.
Who says that men know nothing of the pains of childbirth?
Ok, breaking a frenulum is not like pissing a bowling-ball, but we all get the idea.
Ozzy Indo
...Every person in this forum feels for you.
No one true male would feel anything but complete and utter sympathy.
...Ozzy Indo,
Thank you, thank you, thank you - for all your caring words... Why is it that I have this vision of you sitting smirking and grinning behind your computer when you wrote this?
BESTARD!!!
Giotto
i read all that reports in the fight club, the bangkok thread and also a bit longer ago in the thai woman thread. and i sometimes ask myself whether i have a completely wrong impression of this country – i see things completely different. let’s start with some quotes:
it is amazing to me how many really nice looking young thai girls are willing to seriously entertain the thought of meeting a much older guy.
it's quite simple really. as you mentioned, a lot of thai women have had it with thai men who not only butterfly, but are drunks, lazy and bad-providers. they don't want young farang guys generally either because they know that they are similar to young thai guys, except that they treat women better.
…
the bottom line is, "good" tgs dig older, white farang guys (of a certain type) for whatever reason...
when i came to thailand years ago i also brought my experiences from the western world over here, separating the bar girl scene from the normal society, distinguishing between “good” and “bad” girls. bar girls were prostitutes, and a well educated western family father should not get into contact with them.
during the time living here in thailand i completely changed my mind about this issue. yes, there are some real bitches working in the bars, experienced women who rip farang off, having many boyfriends sending money every month. but – there are also many thai women not working in bars who are doing the same thing!!!
what i really don’t like any more is the generalization between “good” and “bad”, based only on the fact that somebody works in a bar or not. thai women in general have this understanding, the women not working in bars are looking down to bar girls. but – even the ladies of the night working in discos like spasso or cm 2, doing the same thing as bar girls, are looking down to the other women. you will hear them saying: “no, i am not a bar girl. i am working!”
“good” or “bad” - can it be used as an expression for girls partaking in the “game” against those living a regular life as we know it in our home countries? my answer would be “no”, too. as everybody knows i am running a bar, and for that i have contact to bar girls every day.
- most of the bar girls i know are nice warm-hearted “bar girls”, besides a few experienced “bitches”, who learned in the years of their bar life to squeeze as much money/support out of a farang as possible.
- on the other hand i know many nice warm-hearted “regular” girls, besides a group of regulars which are experienced bitches dealing with men as such, who learned in the years of their regular life to squeeze as much money/support out of men as possible.
huh – aeehhh – what have i written there, where is the difference :) ? there is no difference, you find “good” and “bad” ones everywhere in the thai society.
i don’t have access to chulalongkorn university girls or daughters of hiso families, but here some examples of real thai women i know:
- i know a good number of students from bangkok university playing the game in gulliver, cm2, spasso’s and q-bar. i know lots of them who are participating in the internet dating game.
- i know lots of rhamkamhaeng students and students of other universities working in bars here in soi 33 making money for studying. lots of them who are participating in the internet dating game, too.
- i know daughters from high ranking army and police officers working in orchard tower in singapore or banana in phuket, but leading a completely “normal” life in bangkok.
- i know lot’s of working girls from singapore and hongkong, the international traveling scene, which generally avoid working in their home country. but some of those can be found in spasso or tiger/banana in phuket, when they run out of money and cannot travel overseas for some reasons.
- i know at least 20 office girls and lots of sales personal of shipping centers making additional money in bars and discos, going with farang.
- i know lots of office girls and sales personal of shopping centers who will try approach any farang coming to their office/shop for a date --> dinner --> dancing --> sex.
- i know actresses (thais call them “movie stars”) going to spasso working, a bit more expensive than others (thb 10,000.00 and up lt ).
- i know a number of female lawyers, accountants, marketing officers who today lead a completely “regular” life, but they financed their studies with working in bars or discos.
and - then i know so many farang / thai love stories:
funnily 99.9 % of those stories are about farang men meeting thai women. i also know one single story about a thai man with a farang woman (!).
funnily never ever one single woman associated as a girlfriend / wife to a farang was a “bad” girl working in bars or discos before, nor were they participating in the game in other ways. no, all “regulars!” working in shopping centers, offices or studying somewhere. all daughters from thai midso or hiso families… isn’t that interesting :) ? nobody ever marries a bar girl, or takes her as a girlfriend…with finding a farang boyfriend / husband the past of those girls changes – mysteriously :d, or may be not…
guys, i am quite sure that more than 90 % of all thai/farang relationships were established in bars, clubs or discos. and no argument will ever be able to change my opinion regarding this. only – the real number might be 99.9 % …
i listen to the stories about internet dating. young thai women then meet older farang men first time for a dinner, and either they stay together in the same night, or the girls return next day to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) the farang? sorry, but i have my doubts that a traditionally educated thai woman would do something like that. in my opinion they would not even think about it. but – there are lots of thai women participating in the game the “internet dating” way.
the conclusion i came to during the years is:
there is no clear separation in this society between “good” and “bad” girls. you can find woman which are in a way “working” in all parts of the society, except amongst those who are so rich that their pocket money for a week is higher than my yearly income. today i would even go so far to argue that by far most of the thai women are available for farang men for money, support, security, future, whatever (but basically financial) reasons – but that does not mean those women are “bad” of even close to being *****s!
why do thai women like farang men so much? is it the old story about the kickboxing thai men [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) women, being drunk all the time, having small dicks and butterflying around like crazy? if i talk to thai women i hear that in as a reason for their interest in 90 of 100 cases. and it might be true in very few cases, where the woman really had bad experiences with men. a good number of thai woman was raped in their youth, and had experiences with losing a thai man to another woman. but – except the argument of being raped – farang women are losing their boyfriends to other farang men, too – do they now only look for foreigners as boyfriends in our home countries? nonsense!
there are many reasons why thai women like farang men. a small one is, that they like white skin! they also like their babies to have a light skin, as light as possible. they like to whiten the skin color of their kids – and this is not a joke. but there are far more important reasons. the financial reason is and stays the most important one: farang men usually can provide a higher income than thai men. they offer security for the future. farang men are furthermore by far better educated than the average thai men, behave well, they are polite, talk nice, make compliments to the ladies – bakhwaan, how many times do we here this word?
back to the financial issue: we should not forget that those let’s say around 25 year old interesting young thai women were born in the early 80th. that time thailand just developed to be an economic “tiger” country, there was much more poverty in this country than today. most of the girls farang can meet remember this time of poverty and uncertainty, whether they work in bars today or in shops or offices. they still have this financial aspect much more in their mind than farang women have! most of them know how it feels to be hungry – they remember the desperation of their parents if there was no money at home. many of those thai women are still today taking care of their parents because the parents don’t have an own income or any insurance / rent paying in their old age! thai women appreciate financial security more than anything else! they want their babies to have a good future, and not the same difficult life they have experienced in their youth.
next - why do we see so many relationships between older farang men and younger thai woman? is it because “good tgs dig older?” that might be correct, in my pov – but why? the reason for it is a bit complex.
young thai women are interested in young men – as it is everywhere in the world, as life should be, as it is quite normal! young thai woman want young men’s strong bodies in their arms, they don’t necessarily prefer to touch the fat bellies and soft skin of older men. this are young healthy horny woman, the want young healthy horny men! boom-boom all night!
i see love stories here on a daily basis, when one of our ladies of the night suddenly sits somewhere in a corner crying, does not want to go with customers any more, approaches me to send e-mails to somebody (because she cannot write english) etc. etc. . then she usually fell in love with a younger customer, handsome, good looking, sportive body in her own age group. she then has met her dream partner … the prince on the white horse!!!
love stories with older men are completely different – the girls are reluctant, and the older man is persistant. a friendship develops, besides the paid sexual activities, trust develops – and then may be a relationship! suddenly both of them find out that it can work! and respect for each other develops, and then later – love!
this relationships are based on strong interests from both sides: the older farang can be together with a beautiful young women he could never get in his own home country, and she is willing to care about him at least the same way but most likely much more than a farang wife would ever do. that young thai woman finds a stable older man, financially in a secured position, experienced in life, understanding the meaning of taking over responsibility – this man is able to give her and her kids a future! he might not be adonis, but he is jai dee, he has a good heart!
the interest situation of young farang men dating young farang women is different. the young man might not be established in life, still studying or developing his career. he might not have that steady high income an older man has. may be he is also just got married, some young kids in the family – no way to leave the family in such a situation. he also has so many options, all the young thai women are looking at him, want him – he can play around and butterfly as much as he likes to! it is not difficult for thai women to find this out, and to discover, that serious relationships with younger farang men are much more difficult and risky than relationships with older farang men.
and that’s why so many young thai women show interest in older farang men, and many of those relationships really work fine – for a certain time period.
money is always a factor in this relationships, wherever they were established, in bars, shops, universities or via internet dating sites. and it is nothing wrong with that, in my pov. don’t we take care of our farang wifes, too?
finally: to a certain extend the bar girls are much more honest than the so-called "regulars" which are in a way involved in the same game. bar girls charging their nightly fee. a clean deal, the man knows what he takes, what it costs, where he found the girl. the real big rip-off stories are created by another group of thai women, who are playing the big game. making a farang man falling in love, in some cases even getting pregnant, and then going for the big money – this is not a standard bar girl story, but the story of those experienced thai women who know how to really play the hearts of the farangs, and not only their dicks.
giotto
Freeman 418
10-28-06, 10:02
Absolutely unreal post. 10/10. Thanks.
I can fit each of my previous TG relationships exactly into the below descriptions.. (I am "younger" myself).. and I've also heard the exact words from TGs mouth's about why they prefer more mature guy etc.
Related to other points, I'm still good friends with a TG who works in a good medical job and from a good family.. and she has the same thinking as many bargirls-- so i also agree that there is no "good"/"bad" distinction for females there.
One curious point I noticed recently on my visit to Pattaya-- I never met one bar-girl who would admit to having worked in the bar longer than 1-3 months.. they all seemed to be "new".. the longest one I met was a freelancer in a disco bar who admitted she'd been in Pattaya for 3 years, but was liking it.
F.
I read all that reports in the Fight Club, the Bangkok thread and also a bit longer ago in the Thai woman thread. And I sometimes ask myself whether I have a completely wrong impression of this country – I see things completely different. Let’s start with some quotes:
Giotto
Giotto, I think you have a lot of it right. Until my recent adventures at your place, I had never barfined a girl in 15 years of coming to Thailand. All of my previous encounters and they were many were escorts that I weaned away from the agency, girls off of the internet, or girls met in either CM2 or Spasso's.
My first girlfriend, K1 and the second one, K2 both vigourously denied that they were working girls. I met K1 as an escort but she was in complete denial. I remember having a long conversation one night about whether she was really a prostitute or not. It really upset her that someone could think that. She was just doing what needed to be done. And this was a girl with a good university degree who later went on to get her MBA.
My latest ex-gf, E3 really looked down her nose at bar girls. Called them dirty. But I met her on the internet and she told right up front she wanted a boyfriend who would take care of her. I told her no way, and then ended up supporting her for 2 years. I will have to put her story in there as to what I bought for her.
I could go on and on about the girls I have met along the way here. While some are openly working girls and admit it, there are lots that go around fooling themselves. But you know what, who cares. I like this system, it works for me. One of these days I will settle down with one of them. And the age difference is going to be huge.
Dr. G
A great report. And right on target. It is surprising how many farangs are in a state of denial about their relationship. I have never considered one profession good or bad over the other. In fact, I consider that our mongering profession on an equal par with this P4P profession.
A little known fact, is the girl I call my Thai GF. You have met her on my last visit. Anyway, sometimes I think of marrying her and take to the US. She has always treated me well and is quick to catch on if I give her any BS. Unfortunately, she does not want to go there. However, one time I talked to a friend about this issue of marrying her. His response was, if you do that what do you think the rest of the Indian community will think? marrying a *****? that's a no-no.
Does the farang community think the same way? Is that why they partake the sins of the flesh and go back to their wives and girlfriends back home? Just a thought.
Retired Army
10-28-06, 18:45
Giatto,
I read your post and while I agree with some of it, other parts I disagree with.
I think you are being a little general with your comments towards Thai women. What about two people who just are happy together and get along. Using myself as an example: I had to pursue my GF/wife for a long time before she warmed up to the idea of dating a farang. Her going out with me was beneath her social standing. But we got along well and she finally decided that being with a farang wasn't that bad. She has her own business and doesn't rely on me for anything. She knows that her family is her responsibility, not mine. In fact, I know several farangs with similar relationships. In one case the Thai woman has a very successful real estate agency and takes care of the Farang man. Another friend is dating a Thai woman who makes considerably more than he does. And his annual income is close to six figures US$. So, I don't think that money is aloways the motivation. Sometimes two people just like each other and get along. Now, all that said, my friends, like myself, have been married to White Witches from the West. Therefore, finding a good Thai girl who takes care of us and doesn't give us shit about everything little thing is the best feeling on earth.
Old Thai Hand
10-29-06, 04:02
Giatto,
I read your post and while I agree with some of it, other parts I disagree with.
I think you are being a little general with your comments towards Thai women. What about two people who just are happy together and get along. Using myself as an example: I had to pursue my GF/wife for a long time before she warmed up to the idea of dating a farang. Her going out with me was beneath her social standing. But we got along well and she finally decided that being with a farang wasn't that bad. She has her own business and doesn't rely on me for anything. She knows that her family is her responsibility, not mine. In fact, I know several farangs with similar relationships. In one case the Thai woman has a very successful real estate agency and takes care of the Farang man. Another friend is dating a Thai woman who makes considerably more than he does. And his annual income is close to six figures US$. So, I don't think that money is aloways the motivation. Sometimes two people just like each other and get along. Now, all that said, my friends, like myself, have been married to White Witches from the West. Therefore, finding a good Thai girl who takes care of us and doesn't give us shit about everything little thing is the best feeling on earth.
I concur 100%.
G, although you got some of it right, I have to take my rather considerable experience as my only source of reference and agree with RA. Although I've had a few that were with me for support, the vast majority have been with me simply because they like me and want to be with me. Almost every GF I've had in Thailand has been non-P4P, all have had jobs and have taken care of themselves. But, I will admit that I also had P4P GFs in the early years and they were usually a problem. So, there is a big difference between regular TGs and P4P, even if you seem to think that the vast majority of TGs are on the game in one form or another.
As I mentioned in another post, my last GF in Canada before I came to Asia was 21 years younger than me and didn't take a dime from me. Maybe some of us geezers have something that attracts younger girls. I don't know. But, I'm not going to question it. Also, don't forget that here, it is very much a part of the culture and there are often age differences in Thai relationships, as well. For example, my GF's father is 20 years older than her mother. And then, there's my boss. How would her story fit into your theory? She's about as HiSo as you can get, unbelievably rich, MA from MIT, PhD from UC, father a general, brothers and sister senior administrators at Chula, and she's married to a middle-class Farang, 19 years older than her. So, it's obviously not about money, or status. So what, then?
I had a wife in Canada, (3 years older than me) for almost 10 years, who when I met her had far more money than I did. I eventually became quite successful and well-off. By the time it all ended, she'd cleaned me out and I was all, but broke. So, later, when I arrived in Thailand I was cautious of money in relation to women. In all but one case, I have been a bit of a "cheap charlie" with regards to my Thai GFs. But, almost all have stayed with me anyway. The ones that didn't weren't worth a damn.
But, at the end of the day, even if I am deluding myself, so what? I still have a young GF, who even my younger friends, in their 30s envy. Should I dump her for one in my own decade? Not on your life!!!
Re: Farang women and Thai men:
I have also known several Farang women married or dating Thai men. I worked with one English women, who was even married to a Thai prince. One of my student's mothers is from England and married to a Thai general.
I have worked with several Farang women who were married or, in the case of younger women dating Thai men. I even worked with a 37 y.o. American woman last year who dates 20-something Thai guys. She isn't very attractive. But, she seemed to be quite successful in getting young Thai guys to like her and she's not rich.
It's very difficult to ever figure out what really motivates people to be together. The truth is that since the beginning of time, women have been with men for some kind of support, whether based on money, power, protection, emotions or whatever and men are with women for probably a lot simpler reasons. A good deal of it illusion at any given time, whether here or elsewhere. Life has too much reality. A little illusion is a nice escape from that.
Giatto,
I read your post and while I agree with some of it, other parts I disagree with.
I think you are being a little general with your comments towards Thai women. What about two people who just are happy together and get along...Retired Army,
I don't see where we disagree :).
Of course a report like that is always a generalization. And exceptions confirm the rule. And exactly the two people who are happy together and get along ... that is the kind of relationship described in my report, where friendship, trust, respect and love develops.
Also mentioned that the financial aspect does not exist in some cases when women from rich Thai families are involved.
Btw.: Not all women from the West are White Witches :D ...
Giotto
...
G, although you got some of it right, I have to take my rather considerable experience as my only source of reference and agree with RA. Although I've had a few that were with me for support, the vast majority have been with me simply because they like me and want to be with me. Almost every GF I've had in Thailand has been non-P4P, all have had jobs and have taken care of themselves. But, I will admit that I also had P4P GFs in the early years and they were usually a problem. So, there is a big difference between regular TGs and P4P, even if you seem to think that the vast majority of TGs are on the game in one form or another.
...
Old Thai Hand,
May be my report was not clear enough - I don't see a clear difference between P4P and regular Thai woman. And I consider it highly unlikely that young girls (which are mentioned in your posts) have jobs which create an income that they can build their future on.
Some might have but the vast majority can just make there own living from that income - without being able to buy any of the luxury goods we Westerners use to own, without being able to visit the expensive western style restaurants and discos . And for sure not enough to found a family with that.
The target to find financial security is for sure one root for the good number or Thai/farang relationships with high age differences. And I find nothing wrong with that.
Giotto
...She knows that her family is her responsibility, not mine. ...Retired Army,
That is an interesting point.
This is basically westernized thinking. My experience is that Thai women expect that their boyfriends / husbands take over responsibility for their families, too.
But whether she considers it her responsibilities or yours - it does not really matter. SHE will take over this responsibility, and if she has an own income she will use it to support her family, if she is a traditional educated Thai. The money outflow is there, whether from her pocket or your pocket - where is the difference, if you live together in a relationship?
Also nothing wrong with that, in my POV.
Giotto
Retired Army
10-29-06, 07:04
She's about as HiSo as you can get, unbelievably rich, MA from MIT, PhD from UC, father a general, brothers and sister senior administrators at Chula, and she's married to a middle-class Farang, 19 years older than her. So, it's obviously not about money, or status. So what, then?
This brings up an interesting point. I think being married is very important, socially and culturally, for traditional Thai women to be married
Re: Farang women and Thai men:
I have also known several Farang women married or dating Thai men. I worked with one English women, who was even married to a Thai prince. One of my student's mothers is from England and married to a Thai general.
I have worked with several Farang women who were married or, in the case of younger women dating Thai men. I even worked with a 37 y.o. American woman last year who dates 20-something Thai guys. She isn't very attractive. But, she seemed to be quite successful in getting young Thai guys to like her and she's not rich.
This is true. Some of the Western women where I work also engage is the same activities that we do. And there are plenty of young Thai men who are economically motivated to provide such services.
I also think there is some status among Thai men to be sleeping with a Western woman.
It's very difficult to ever figure out what really motivates people to be together. The truth is that since the beginning of time, women have been with men for some kind of support, whether based on money, power, protection, emotions or whatever and men are with women for probably a lot simpler reasons.
Yes, I think this is the basic rule of male female relationships. Women want to ensure their children are secure and men want relief from the pain of backed up sperm.
Retired Army
10-29-06, 07:12
I don't see a clear difference between P4P and regular Thai woman. And I consider it highly unlikely that young girls (which are mentioned in your posts) have jobs which create an income that they can build their future on.
Two seperate arguments here. There is a big difference between regular Thai non P4P and P4P women. If I get what you are saying is that: all women are *****s, it's just a matter of price
Some might have but the vast majority can just make there own living from that income - without being able to buy any of the luxury goods we Westerners use to own, without being able to visit the expensive western style restaurants and discos . And for sure not enough to found a family with that.
I think this is human nature and not isolated to Thai women. We all want something more than we have.
The target to find financial security is for sure one root for the good number or Thai/farang relationships with high age differences. And I find nothing wrong with that.
Neither do I; however, I prefer a girl a little closer to my age. Cudos to OTH for having such a young GF, but I probably don't have the stamina to give her what she needs on a regular basis. I also like older women because I don't want to drop my drawers only to have the girl look at my schlong and not know what to do with it.
Two seperate arguments here. There is a big difference between regular Thai non P4P and P4P women. If I get what you are saying is that: all women are *****s, it's just a matter of price ...
Retired Army,
No, that is exactly NOT what I want to say. This is the negative interpretation of the general life situation of women.
Life simply is like that, and some specialties of the life situation of women in Thailand were described in my report. These "reasons" to look for a farang man should not only be valid for regular women but also for bar girls! To be supported by a man in one or the other way does NOT make a woman necessarily to act like a who**!
The behavior and attitude can make women to be *****s, and you can find this behavior not only in bars.
Giotto
Old Thai Hand
10-29-06, 11:38
however, I prefer a girl a little closer to my age. Cudos to OTH for having such a young GF, but I probably don't have the stamina to give her what she needs on a regular basis. I also like older women because I don't want to drop my drawers only to have the girl look at my schlong and not know what to do with it.
Trust me. Although 21, my GF knows exactly what to do. Also, my being a teacher, she's a willing student for anything new I might want to teach her...LOL
BTW. I dated one woman 43 and another 38, last year because I thought I should try something closer to my age, for a change. Both were crap in bed. The younger generation has it all over the older one.
Old Thai Hand
10-29-06, 12:56
As a new aspect of this age-old analysis of the subtle and not-so-subtle differences between "good" girls (notice we always put 'good' in quotes...that says something in itself), bad girls, P4P girls and everyone in between is the "Internet Girl", as Stickman called her awhile ago. His take on it was that "Internet Girl" could become a force to compete against the traditional BG, P4P girls. Of course that's already happening. There are lots of P4P girls, and those who would never think of themselves as such using the Internet as a means to hook a virtual meal-ticket.
I've had a lot of experience with this online dating stuff. If I ever have enough time, I'll write some stories here about my wacky experiences. I've been doing the online thing for about 3 years, have chatted with hundreds of Thai women and just in the last year alone have hooked up with over 50. I would say that the score runs about 50-50 between outright girls on the game, or at least opportunists looking for some sort of monetary gain, to genuine "good" (there's that word, again) TGs looking for a BF/husband. There are some also in-between, sort of small p - small 4 - small p/girls in need, who are looking, out of some sort of desperation, for a sponsor, usually to pay education expenses or whatever...a variation on the time-worn sick buffalo, my mother needs a new lung scenario.
I generally have grown rather cynical about a lot of these girls, even the so-called "good" ones, (some of them are a real pain in the ass, and fucking nuts!). So, when I was doing the online dating game, I became just as much of an opportunist as some of them. I think the suggestion that they may be a little more liberal or sexually open than the traditional TG (do they even really exist that much anymore? I wonder) is putting it mildly. Maybe we should just call them all the "New" "Good" Thai girls.
It's a phenomena that's growing and may well be the way to go even for visitors wanting to set up a number of dates with various girls, before they arrive here, in the hopes that they may get lucky with some. They will get lucky, of course with a lot less effort than they'd have to put in on a Western girl, especially one in her 20s. But, it's still a longer haul than the safe bet of P4P. And, there can be many false starters and game-players, some that are psycho head-cases, some that are liars, some that stalk you after they've met you and you've dumped them (maybe not a problem for visitors, but for guys like me---yikes!!!), some that are just not what they appear to be on their profiles (using a pic from 5 years ago or 20 kg. ago) etc. etc.
But, I've had some amazing fucks from some Internet Girls. I met both my Gig and GF this way and both are the real deal and I have no regrets with either of them. Maybe they're both after something in the long-run and it just hasn't kicked in, yet. But, I don't care. I'm enjoying myself, at the moment, and that's all that matters.
Retired Army
10-29-06, 14:22
Trust me. Although 21, my GF knows exactly what to do. Also, my being a teacher, she's a willing student for anything new I might want to teach her...LOL
BTW. I dated one woman 43 and another 38, last year because I thought I should try something closer to my age, for a change. Both were crap in bed. The younger generation has it all over the older one.
Well crap, maybe I've been wrong all these years and I should go for younger women. I just don't want to waste time explaining why there is air and who the beatles were.
Retired Army
10-29-06, 14:29
Isn't that pretty much the same with dating in general? You have to weed through a lot of frogs before finally finding a princess.
I did the same as you and dated online for a while. Met some interesting ladies that I went out with and had sex with. However, some of them I gave a fake name and phone number and ran as fast as I could. Excused myself to go to the toilet and crawled through the window to get away.
But I would say that if you are careful and selective you can meet some pretty decent girls. One guy I know nailed 10's of girls this way. Some on the same day they met for the first time. But then again, he is a much smoother operator than I. Wound up marrying a Thai Airways flight attendant.
Old Thai Hand
10-29-06, 14:44
Well crap, maybe I've been wrong all these years and I should go for younger women. I just don't want to waste time explaining why there is air and who the beatles were.
The Beatles????? Who????
I listen to Thaitanium, 50cent and occasionally Tata Young. So, my GF and I are on the same wavelength. One of the advantages of perpetually having 17-21 y.o. students is that you can keep up on the latest trends and therefore, be marginally "cool". Funny thing, though. I seem to get older and they stay the same age every year.
...
I seem to get older and they stay the same age every year.Old Thai Hand,
LOL! Next year you need a new 21 year old girlfriend! Otherwise you get older :) ...
Giotto
Jungle Bluebird
10-30-06, 13:20
The Beatles????? Who????
I listen to Thaitanium, 50cent and occasionally Tata Young. So, my GF and I are on the same wavelength. One of the advantages of perpetually having 17-21 y.o. students is that you can keep up on the latest trends and therefore, be marginally "cool". Funny thing, though. I seem to get older and they stay the same age every year.What I discover when reading the various posts, is that my local existence with all it's daily highs and lows is pretty much what OTH and Retired Army express. Must say, interesting read this forum and a great insight into various mindsets. Truly enjoy this.
In an attempt to broadly generalize the discussion on 'good' versus bad girl, I must state that just about all women have real issues when it comes to sex. 'Good' girl or not, tell them what they want to hear and u will be a happy camper. But for us ‘real’ guys, we are just too thick, just to narrow minded to understand this simple principle.
I mean, for gods sake, I read on adultfriendfinder that girls looking for love and husbands. Hallo, lights are on, but no one home?;-)
It's all part of the local evolution I figure. Bars, MP's, then the first 'good girl' GF. Separations, more 'good’ girl's. The skin gets whiter, better education, better jobs…. Finally after years in Thailand we adopt the Gik scheme. For the last few years the interest turned online. Mind you, with the right bandwidth flipping through ‘good girl’ profiles on match.com, they just about all read, look the same.
Hey, maybe I am well on my way to convert into a typical Thai male sleaze bag. Serves me just fine. Not that I respect Thai guys very much, I think most of them are just bum’s. But when it comes to Thai women, they are certainly smooth operators.
I wrote about Starlet some time ago and predicted that she would not work here for a long time. On Wednesday was her wedding day. The Story:
Within the 2 months Starlet worked in Livingstone’s she learned a lot. In the beginning you could sometimes find her sitting somewhere in a corner of the bar and watching all the action, and one could have had the impression that she was shy … but things changed fast. She had then customers nearly every night, though she did not go out every night, but she made a lot of money with lady drinks.
The shy polite so very Thai woman turned into a fun girl. She was drunk many nights, and when she reached a specific alcohol level the female desires took over control. She had many victims, but the guys returned and returned. I remember the customer who was coming every night at 7 pm only to check out whether she was there, and leaving immediately if not. The bar owner, usually once in 3 months in Livingstone’s suddenly returned 3 times a week. Other customers traveling into Bangkok, hoping that they could built up a serious relationship with her.
About a month ago I heard first time that she was getting married soon. She had a boyfriend supporting her, and when he came to Bangkok in November the wedding should take place. Starlet then informed us that she would stop working end of October 2006 – to prepare to get married.
And – she stopped working, but she was back in the bar one day later, in normal clothes, drinking, playing pool, paying by herself – and even going with one of our hotel customers up to the rooms.
Then another customer returned to the Lodge - with serious intentions, and I asked Starlet to tell the customer the truth. He would anyway find out, so why not tell him before. She first disagreed, but as I know now she later decided to do as I told her. So both had the chance to deal with that situation and get used to the idea.
Starlet went with customers until the day the groom arrived in Bangkok.
Next day she was in Livingstone’s again, together with the groom and a group of Farang men/Thai women friends. I got to know the groom, and he told me that she was a good girl, that he knows her about 3 years, that he takes care of her ever since he met her, and that she does not work any more. This guy did not know that she worked in our bar before! And she took the risk to bring him here.
Starlets story was slightly different. She told Mrs. Giotto, that he had met that man 5 months ago, when he was talking in her old bar (before Livingstone’s) that he was looking for a woman to marry and take her to his home country. Somebody in this bar introduced then Starlet to him, because she was also looking – for somebody taking care of her, or whatever she was looking for, who knows Thai women… She had only met him there in the bar, never stayed with him longer than a few days, and now she was getting married to him.
The groom asked me about my experience with Thai women. We were talking about marriage, the monks procedure and the official Thai wedding. He assured that he was only marrying in the Buddhist tradition, only a monks procedure.
Starlet told Mrs. Giotto that it was a legal paper based wedding.
The days before the wedding they showed up many times in Livingstone’s, and there was not a single day that Starlet was not drunk.
The day of the wedding came, and Mrs. Giotto was invited. Furthermore the couple had rented a room to allow guests to change their clothes. The bride had invested THB 700.00 for her wedding dress (brides outfit is usually at least THB 50,000.00 for a wedding in Thailand). She left together with all other guests to participate in the procedure in one of Bangkok temples. Then the couple and all the guests were leaving to a boat restaurant for celebrating the wedding. And - no dowry was paid.
That was it. That was the most important day in the life of a Starlet.
Good luck to both of them, I hope that they can get separated peacefully within the next four weeks without having too many fights and problems with each other.
Not sure that Starlet will be back in Livingstone’s, because of the “loosing face” problem. But she will be back in one of the bars in Bangkok soon.
Giotto
I do hope you managed to give that poor guy some sort of warning. Starlet was in fact very, very good and knew how to make a man feel really good. Unfortuanately she knew how to make too many guys feel really good. I agree with your assessment of how long it will last - not long.
When you were talking to this guy, didn't you feel like telling him the whole story? I know that is a really tough call and I doubt he would have listened, but you might have saved him from some major problems down the road. It just amazes me that a guy could marry a girl like that when she is bonking every guy in sight up to the day of the wedding. Was he totally blind?
Anyway, I have to thank Starlet for waking me up and precipating my change of mind about where I was going and what I was doing. She was fun, but she also reminded me all of this was just an illusion. Comparing her to my ex who really wasn't ex, convinced me that I was on the wrong path and needed to appreciate what was always right in front of me.
And let's face it Thor, for a short period of time, you were smitten !
...When you were talking to this guy, didn't you feel like telling him the whole story? ...Thor93,
To be honest, no. It is not my story. I have no right to get involved.
I talked a bit about Thai women, and signals he should watch for. That's what I can do, not more than that.
In this case: Both get what they wanted, and what they deserve.
Giotto
And let's face it Thor, for a short period of time, you were smitten !
I can not deny that I was smitten and why not? There was lots there to be smitten by. But when the whole story with getting married and all came out, it quickly helped clear the head. There was no way this girl could ever be trusted and in Thailand being smitten with a girl you can not trust is dangerous indeed.
So the choice is never be smitten or be smitten with someone you think you can trust. And I do realize that in the end, no one can ever totally trust anyone about anything.
Still the whole episode was instructive and fun. I had a chance to see other opportunities from the non-ex ex. And in the end I ended back where I started more confident about that choice than I had been previously.
I still feel sorry for the guy she is marrying. If he only knew the whole story, do you think he would go through with it still?
I still feel sorry for the guy she is marrying. If he only knew the whole story, do you think he would go through with it still?
Yes he would. It sounds like he has a bad case of "one-itis".
I for one, think G did the right thing, by not saying anything to this guy, it was not his business.
In Asia, even though there is tons of gossip, most believe that things which do not affect them are not their business, and therefore, they do not get involved. They will, however, very much enjoy talking about it between friends, out of earshot of the people involved.
Would the guy have believed him anyway, or would he have believed Starlet, as she cooed and snuggled into his arms, saying it is all a lie?
Exactly!
Let sleeping dogs lie.............
To me, the funny thing would have been to listen to the conversation between G and Mrs. G, when they both relate completely different stories to each other.
Her cousin works in the bar, so I am sure Mrs G will find out the date of the seperation. I say december 21, 2006. Any takers for another date? G is buying a beer for the guy who guesses the correct date! :D
Come on, why should he be warned. The groom is an adult who is marrying a BG whom he paid for sex, paid into the dowry all these months prior to getting married. I think any adult who thinks otherwise in these situation may be dumb or a moron or a martyr saving a soul. It is his choice and maybe he will win or maybe not.
If the guy is a teenager, then a warning maybe necessary. But an adult? Who has been visiting this fantasy land many times. Who cares if the bride's dress cost 700 B. And according to all the Thai experts on this board, she doesn't desrve a dowry because of her social status.
So I think, Dr. G made the right decision in not telling anything. It's not that the groom is a close friend of him, in which case a warning might be warranted.
So let them be happy or otherwise. If she comes back to the bar, i am sure Dr. G would be happy to get back a profitable employee. :)
My first time in this forum (my first time on the board in several months, actually, and now just briefly while I avoid other things) so this is just a bravo, a hello and a small comment on the thread here regarding the "nature" of Thai women: in my experience, in Thailand and anywhere else, it is a core mistake to look at *any* woman exclusively through a cultural (or sexual, or beer-goggle, for that matter) lens, as it tends to distort the view. Anyone, anywhere, who dives headlong into a relationship with someone without really knowing exactly who that person is and what makes them tick generally gets surprised and distressed. The only times I've been unpleasantly surprised with Thai women were in situations where I've already received (and either ignored or not cared about) pretty good indicators such surprise was a possibility. Outside of that it's all basic man and woman stuff -- and in that you either get where she's coming from and adjust accordingly or you get it wrong and it gets messy.
I'm essentially a nice guy who looks for basically nice girls and treats them accordingly -- regardless of whether they are bar girls and/or boinking machines or not. I've met many who are actually nice, and many more who pretend to be, Thai or not, pro or not, and if you look enough you get to know the difference between what's real and what's not regardless of the game. (And, yes, I know there are a million Stickman duping stories, among others.) If you can't tell the difference, you get stomped, regardless pf whether you're in your own culture or one less familiar, though the latter definitely makes the stomping easier and more likely.
... Anyone, anywhere, who dives headlong into a relationship with someone without really knowing exactly who that person is and what makes them tick generally gets surprised and distressed. ...Joe Zop,
Welcome back to the forum.
I am always surprised again when I hear about those marriages. Especially if cultural differences are involved the two involved man and woman should check themselves twice. After all a marriage should be for all life.
Giotto
As some might know – we are building some new rooms. That is basically not that bad, but – we are completely booked on Friday. The Story:
This are those last few days of the construction work, and Livingstone’s looks alike an ant-hill of all different crafts these days. 3 and a half month it was a quiet construction ongoing, and now all involved companies / craftsmen have obviously realized, that there is not much time left any more.
Up to now not a single subsystem is tested. The first craftsmen who made it were the guys from the A/C company today (which is btw. German). The found one of the compressors broken – we might have a problem with one room now. There were smaller coordination problems with the electrician – he was in yesterday, but the A/C guys were not ready yet, and today, when they wanted to do the tests – no electricity.
But – there are others much more efficient than this guys. We agreed with all workers that we start to finalize the 3rd floor first, to make sure that we have those 3 rooms available. The wood pickers obviously understood that wrongly – we have now all doors ready in the ground floor, but no doors in the third floor… btw. , in the ground floor there is not even the parquet grinded…
Water – we have water in the bathrooms. Really. The water pressure is – not existing. We have those huge double Jacuzzi’s, and if a guest want to use them we have to open the water two days before he arrives…
Today we ordered 4 extra maids for a night shift to clean the third floor. They arrived at 7 pm. At 6:45 the parquet company had decided to varnish the parquet in the 3rd floor the second time. I was really happy – the parquet looks great! But nobody could go upstairs...we sent the maids home.
Wallpaper. There is no wallpaper installed in the rooms on the ground floor yet. The wallpaper company told us, they will do it as soon as the parquet is grinded. That was done today – looking forward to seeing wallpaper in those rooms tomorrow.
Windows? We have double windows. First they delivered all windows with dark glass. If you close both windows it is always night in the rooms. So – we exchanged the glass of one of the windows. But – they exchanged the outside window glass!!! Good idea, the isolation against sunlight is then not really so effective – but OK, you don’t need brain to install glass.
We have bathroom doors. Yes! Yes! Yes! But – no doorknobs. Wrong. We have doorknobs somewhere, but nobody knows where. We all remember them…
Tonight – the wood pickers offensive. Installation of the handrail at the staircases. 4 guys showing up at 8 pm for a night shift. But – the handrails did not show up! The 4 guys were sitting there, and drinking beer, and drinking beer, and drinking beer…
We are sure that we had given the fans for the bathrooms to the installation team a few days ago. Today we checked the rooms – no fans installed. And nobody can find any fans anywhere. But I am sure, that many of the homes of our construction workers have now new fans in their bathrooms…
TV’s. Delivered today. Very good. But – the antenna net is not connected to the satellite room. Reason: No money for buying 70 m antenna cable. 50 m = 500 baht, 70 m = 700 baht. Without us prepaying everything nothing will be bought. If we only knew what they need – then I would go ST one time to make the money for that damned antenna cable…
Oh yes, the ceilings are painted already. When I (personally) ordered that I asked the painter to keep at least 20 kg of pre-mixed color for us to fix the ceiling at the end, when all the light and A/Cs was installed… Today then, there were a lot of finger prints on the ceiling in the 3rd floor, after the A/C was installed – I asked the painter to fix it. “No more color, and if I mix new – color different!” – I turned around and cried…
Oh – good news – the furniture was delivered on Monday. Exactly the date the company had confirmed. But – the rooms were not ready. 5 furniture installation guys were send home – I apologized to the boss of the company and confirmed that he had done a great job. He thanked me, and told me that he were sorry, but his guys had not time this week any more, too busy with other projects, and they cannot come to install the furniture this week.
Mini-bars. Fridges. We ordered them 6 weeks ago. We called 2 weeks ago to get the delivery confirmed. We called 3 days ago to get the delivery confirmed. They confirmed – delivery yesterday. Yesterday – no fridges. We called. They checked. We called. They checked. They then called back – delivery 26.11.2006. – I crept through the telephone line, ripped his balls off – but still no fridges…we have no means, we paid already!
So far so good.
2 more days to go. Everything will be fine.
This is Thailand.
Giotto
2 more days to go. Everything will be fine.
This is Thailand.
Giotto
Damn, you are an amazing optimist. I never met a German with such an attitude. Usually they are all dark and brooding, but here you are so optimistic in the face of such adversity. I applaud your attitude.
I am not back there for another 3 weeks so I can rest assured that everything will be done by then. If things go wrong though and you suffer a total breakdown or perhaps just commit suicide, will Mrs. G. be able to continue running things? And do you have a favorite charity or should we just send flowers?
...but OK, you don’t need brain to install glass...Obviously you don't need brain to install or do anything all over Asia. Be that Thailand, China or other places. The only thing you need is friends who put you into the position you want to be. Brain is some dump we used to have in Europe in the good old days.
And when was the original opening date again? :D
This is Southeast Asia, Doktor. Don't worry. It will happen.
Short update (Wednesday, 15.11.2006, 22:45):
- 5 guys install the handrails right now.
- there is light in the floors
- the switchboard for computer/telephone is installed
- parquet in 2nd and 3rd floor finished
- wallpaper installed except in 1.5 rooms
- all fans in the bathrooms are installed (!!!)
- some bathroom doors have doorknobs
Wow. Not bad.
- no antenna net connection
- no water pressure
- no fridges
- no telephones
1 more day to go. We will make it!
Giotto
Giotto,
I'm a project manager by profession now. Have learned that no matter how well the planning is:
"If it wasn't for the last minute, nothing gets done."
Good luck for the next couple of days and stay sane.
16.11.2006: 9:45 am
All hands on deck. Except: the wallpaper guys. Where the hell are they?
Giotto
Starting today Livingstone's Lodge has 27 rooms.
Still some problems to be fixed next week. But - today and tomorrow we are completely booked.
God shave the queen. I go sleep.
Giotto
Traveler1234
11-18-06, 03:44
Starting today Livingstone's Lodge has 27 rooms.
Still some problems to be fixed next week. But - today and tomorrow we are completely booked.
God shave the queen. I go sleep.
Giotto
Hmmm. god 'shave' the queen...
Congratulations...now that the 'hardware' is completed, make sure to debug all the software....see you soon ;)
The days following the pay days are always exciting for the Management. The question is: Which staff members are showing up for work? The story:
We pay the salaries twice a month, quite usual in Thailand. There are other companies paying 4 times a month (!)… If we paid salaries only once a month the majority of the staff would starve or borrow money and get more and more into debt every month.
On the 20th of each month the staff gets advanced salaries for the month, an amount based on that what they enter into a advanced salaries list, which is handed to the staff a few days ago. But – the advanced salary is limitied to a maximum of 1/3 of the monthly salary. On the 5th of a month we then pay the complete salary for the month before, but deduct the advanced salary.
We do it the right way for our staff, do we? --- I am not so sure any more. We should pay on a daily basis…:)
Pay day – wow, that is a happy day for Thais. And – what could be more fun than – immediately spend as much money as possible? Why not, it is their money, and money is for spending, and if it is spent – then you cannot spend more! That means – no more problems because of spending! That is basically – good!!!
Everybody is happy after receiving their money on one of those pay days, and all staff is also happy if not too many customers are still in the bar at 1 am, that we can close in time. And then – Ton Thong Thai restaurant in Rhamintra / Rama 9 road. A cheap Thai restaurant, with an indoor Karaoke room. Good food, lots of Whiskey – and a bit Thai singing and dancing – being happy twice a month, that’s what all the Thai life is about!
This parties take place since the opening of Livingstone’s Lodge 2 years ago. Some staff work here ever since, and you should expect that they learned something – no, of course not. There is always the next day after the party – headache, headache, headache, the decision to go to work or not, and the horror that the money is gone, how to make it now until the next pay day?
In the first month when I was running Livingstone’s I was always surprised that some staff came 3 days after pay day and asked for advanced salary again. They always had some reasons – bar girl like reasons, mother sick, father accident, motorbike broken, water buffalo dead. After watching that for some months – the received advanced money for some of our staff started to exceed the payment of the next pay day – I brutally stopped that trend and ordered that no more advanced salaries are paid except that on the 20th of the month.
This decision caused some serious trouble for some of our staff – and it needed some month to adjust it. They were simply without any money for a time period, and they did not know how to survive. We then the staff borrowing money amongst each other back and forth – whoever had something was the source, and of course the borrower of tomorrow. That caused the next serious problems, because that staff members who did not see any chance to every pay back what they had borrowed disappeared over night, and were never seen again. So some of the small “banks” got into serious trouble because of their good heart to help others. Then – we helped again, to avoid the problem to spread further – and lost the money then.
I intervened again and prohibited the staff to borrow / lend money amongst each other. First I only talked, and it did not help much. Then I acted and definitely kicked two staff members out which were openly seen during such a borrowing transaction. Ever since each pay process is again combined with the warning words: Don’t spend the money tonight, don’t borrow it to others.
The borrowing is now under control. But the pay-day parties never stopped.
The last months either me or Mrs. Giotto joins the staff for their Drink-Either-As-Much-As-Possible-Or-As-Long-As-Having-Money party. We try stop the parties at 4 am in the morning and convince the staff to go home then.
It worked in June and July. BTW: I am talking about our regular staff, not about the ladies of the night. They deal much better with money.
I remember the advanced salary pay day of August. Staff --> Ton Thong Thai restaurant! Mrs. Giotto was tired and left at 4 am, no chance to convince the staff to go home. Next day 5 staff members did not show up for work. Service staff, chefs, one front desk staff. I had a meeting with them next day. I gave 4 of those 5 an official staff warning. One of the guys gave me a sick-leave paper from a hospital. I looked into his eyes, crunched it with one hand and threw it to the ground. The 5th person – if I had given her another warning it would have been her 3rd one. That would mean – it’s over, job lost! So I only cut her service charge – that also hurts a lot. I somehow wanted to give her the last chance, she worked well during the past few months.
2 days ago was advanced salary pay day again. The staff went – to Ton Thong restaurant. Mrs. Giotto went with them.
I got a phone call at 6 am in the morning. Our staff was involved into a fight with the Ton Thong staff - everybody completely drunk. One of the Ton Thong guys had lost control, took a bottle, shattered it and caused a deep facial cut to one of our kitchen helpers. Mrs. Giotto accompanied this guy to the next hospital, where the cut was fixed with several stitches…She was back at 10 am in the morning.
This is Thailand: The Days after Pay Days, the Days of Horror.
Giotto
After reading of the 690 ladies' drinks in the other thread, it's good to see the other side of your business so we don't get too many ideas about going into competition with you...
The chef hurt in the incident on the 20th of this month returned yesterday and wanted to work. He was scared to lose his job.
He looked like Frankenstein's monster. The cut in his face starts at the corner of the mouth and leads up to the zugomatic bone. Another cut is on his head, from the ear to the top of his cranium. The third cut is on his back, it was hidden by clothes.
All together he received 28 stitches during the surgery to fix the cuts.
You really want to be close to Thais losing control. There are no limits.
He can be happy that no artery was hurt, he could have died.
Giotto
Traveler1234
11-25-06, 05:58
If you start this thread, I would nominate this post!
The days following the pay days are always exciting for the Management. The question is: Which staff members are showing up for work? The story:
This is Thailand: The Days after Pay Days, the Days of Horror.
Giotto
A taxi tour through Bangkok can be fun. It is not so much fun if you are under time pressure, and accidentially meet a crazy taxi driver. The Story:
Last Tuesday I was on my way to Singapore. As always last minute events occur, and though I had planned to have sufficient time to check out the new airport my time buffer vanished due to late departure from Livingstone’s.
The taxi driver took the expected route to Petchaburi Road, Rhamintra, Rama 9 road. Traffic was heavy, but acceptable. It was around 2:30 pm in the afternoon. We needed approximately 20 min. to be on Rama 9, so things were going quite well. Until – the taxi driver told me that he needed to fill up gas…
After years in Bangkok I am used to that in a way. It is not that the taxis are buying fuel when they don’t have customers on board – they adjust their routes to pass by those fuel stations (the don’t use gasoline, the engines run on auto gas, and there are not too many auto gas stations in Bangkok) when they have a customer on board. And there, in Rama 9, there was one of those fuel stations for taxi gas.
I had a time buffer of approx. 15 min. left, and the driver told me he would need approx. 3 min. . So - after first shaking my head again about this for me usually unacceptable service orientation of that guy I finally agreed.
Surprisingly the driver stayed in the very right line of Rama 9 and made a U-TURN !!! Before I even realized it we were on the opposite side of Rama 9, on our way back. I nearly got a heart attack – but it was too late. And – of course – the driver had no understanding for my blood pressure going through the roof.
After driving back approx. 2 km (!) we reached the fuel station which was packed! 6 stations, and 20 cars waiting. I expected the decision to give up the idea and proceed to the airport. But no – the driver started to wait.
I tried it the friendly Thai way – we don’t have too much time left, otherwise I will miss my flight. No problem, we will be in the airport in 20 min. . – Are you sure? – Sure!!!
- 10 min. later we were stuck in the middle of the waiting queue, no chance to move backwards. I knew – it would be close. The driver became a bit nervous, too. He started to talk to other taxi drivers whether they would let him pass…
- After another 10 endless min. we got a place at one station, but there was no service staff available.
- After another 3 endless min. we tried to leave the station, but the way out was blocked by other taxis.
- After another 3 endless minutes we were about to enter Rama 9 (still into the wrong direction), and the traffic was slow – Rama 9 had changed into a kind of huge parking lot.
- After another 5 endless minutes we entered the queue on Rama 9 parking lot and slowly moved forward to the next U-Turn option.
- After another couple of endless minutes we reached the next U-Turn option – blocked with concrete blocks (!!!)
I don’t want to proceed – all that was horror pure, I had given up the flight to Singapore already, and hoped to get the next one. We had to go back with the slow traffic to close to Rhamintra, where Rama 9 crosses over to Rhamkamhaeng. And then back on the other side of the road, kilometers, passing by the fuel station on the other side and finally reaching the airport 45 minutes too late.
I killed the taxidriver, was arrested, and stay now in an institute for mental disturbed people. No, I rushed to the check-in counter, received the message that the flight was delayed 30 min., and – I could still check in! I was lucky – this time…
This is Thailand. The Land of The Smile.
Giotto
Aaagh! My blood pressure rose just reading this (and I don't even have a blood pressure problem)! Sounds like a typical "easy" drive in Dubai, so I can empathize.
A taxi tour through Bangkok can be fun. It is not so much fun if you are under time pressure, and accidentially meet a crazy taxi driver. The Story: ...
A taxi tour through Bangkok can be fun. It is not so much fun if you are under time pressure, and accidentially meet a crazy taxi driver. The Story:
........
Giotto
How did you agree on the taxi fee?
You paid the extra loop as well?
regards
Brain666
Aaagh! My blood pressure rose just reading this (and I don't even have a blood pressure problem)! Sounds like a typical "easy" drive in Dubai, so I can empathize.Pipeman,
Before I used taxis in Bangkok I also had no blood pressure problem. And if I read your comment - better I do not visit you in Dubai :) .
Giotto
Yea G, did you end up paying the fare on the meter? That would be the icing on the cake.
Yea G, did you end up paying the fare on the meter? That would be the icing on the cake.Mr. Vice President,
The meter showed 283 or so baht. I paid 220 and left him. He was happy to survive.
Giotto
Mr. Vice President,
The meter showed 283 or so baht. I paid 220 and left him. He was happy to survive.
Giotto
What? No tip? :D
What? No tip? :DSir,
He got a big tip. He was allowed to stay alive!
Giotto
my annual christmas trip to germany was shortened this year. i had to be back in 28.12.2006 – staff party. the story:
usually thai companies invite their staff once in a quarter year for a short trip to somewhere, or at least a party with good food and lots of alcohol. up to now we never did that here at livingstone’s, but it was time now to start with it.
the kanchanaburi boat tour – that was the first idea. hire a disco boat on river kwai, raft down the river, stay one night, dancing, drinking, getting ballistic – wait, we cannot do that, who is taking care of our hotel customers?
after a longer discussion in the management about splitting up the staff into two groups, making two tours, we came to the result, that this was for several reason not a good idea. to split up in two groups was exactly that what we did not want. a staff party should build up livingstone’s cooperate identity, and not separate two groups of staff. the only solution: a staff party in livingstone’s.
i came back in the afternoon, and the first information i got was that i was expected to deliver a speech later that night. ok. and that mrs. giotto was expected to deliver a speech. not so very ok, but – ok. and that our gm was expected to deliver a speech. ok – what boring shit was expected there, i thought we were going to have a party?
we did not expect many customers that night, the time between christmas and new year is usually very quiet, the expats are not in bangkok, and there should not be many customers in the restaurant and sports lounge. ---- yes, theory. at 8 pm the restaurant was packed. at 10 pm still customers in the restaurant / bar. but – green light for a start. the kitchen cooked food for the staff – real quantities.
one keg of beer, and 8 bottles of whiskey was prepared for the staff. and an all-you-can-eat buffet. 11 pm. still customers around the pool. a few inside the bar. we switched to thai music, and within minutes the staff was dancing.
the speeches:
i was first. basic content: thank you for everything, have fun tonight, please don’t drink too much that you can work tomorrow.
mrs. giotto. basic content: thank you for everything, have fun tonight, please don’t drink too much that you can work tomorrow.
gm. basic content: thank you for everything, have fun tonight, please don’t drink too much that you can work tomorrow.
around 11:30 pm the first female staff threw up and fertilized the flowers in front of the sports lounge. it was approx. the same time when the staff informed us that there was nothing to drink any more.
ok, another keg of beer, 6 more bottles of whiskey.
a nice hotel guest who enjoyed the party with the staff bought another bottle of whiskey for them.
presents for the staff were distributed. extensive photo sessions. everybody together with everybody. i had to drink with all staff – cheers, cheers, cheers…
dancing got more excessive – and the staff decided that they needed some striptease performance. but – not what you would expect as readers, that one of our beautiful ladies of the night would strip – wrong! service staff striptease! the staff went ballistic. i was blinded, and i promise, i will never open my eyes again to see something like that. god of all horrors…
afterwards we saw some more strips, men, women – believe me, nobody wanted to see it. but it was good fun for the staff, and the bar was rocking. more and more customers came in – and stayed! what could we do, we left them suffering (or enjoying?) with the staff.
during all this party the staff managed to keep up the basic service for the customers. every 5 – 10 minutes one of our service staff was walking around the swimming pool taking care of the restaurant guests. and in the sports lounge it also worked – somehow. i remember a guest coming in at 1 am with two ladies, ordering drinks and waiting…because there was no bar tender outside at the bar the service staff had to prepare the drinks, too. i went over there, informed the guest that today he could only expect lousy service, it was staff party day. and it was ok.
we had a lot of bar fines that day – surprisingly. many customers coming in saw our ladies dancing, with so much alcohol in their blood the girls got horny! they did not want to sleep alone, so they were looking for good nightly service! that could be a reason to organize a staff party every day … let me think about that. i really think that some customers were raped that night…
3 am. police came. we were lucky – outside at the car park close to our building was another party, and we could convince them that we were closed long time already, and the noise came from that party…
3:30 am. i saw one of our front desk staff (she had to work next morning) hanging at the bar and fighting with a strong desire to give back everything she ate and drank that night – i know those pale-green faces and the suffering eyes – oh god, not feeling so well … i talked to the front desk night shift to be prepared that she had to stay longer in the morning.
it was a great party. next morning the early shift was there, customers had their breakfast. the front desk was also working. the staff seamed to be – a bit tired. ok, we can live with that.
damage: 2 kegs of beer, 19 bottles of whiskey, some soft drinks, 20 glasses (broken), food, several flowers/plants outside dying of alcohol poisoning.
good fun! let’s do it again – but please, only once a year!
giotto
if you have the strong desire to put an end to your life - the easiest way to die in bangkok is to use a motorbike taxi. the story:
they are everywhere. at the junctions of the smaller sois and the main roads, around shopping centers, close to bar- and massage place areas and even in the residential areas within the small sois: motorbike taxi stands. you never have to walk more than 500 m. to find one of the men with a motorbike and his orange uniform.
there is only one reason to use them: you must be under extreme time pressure. and the usual bangkok traffic jam everywhere in the city makes it impossible to get to your destination with a taxi. and your destination is not close to a skytrain or mrt station, so there is not alternative transportation option. then – you might take the risk and go by motorbike taxi.
i sometimes really don’t want to know how it looks like when a farang is a pillion rider on a motorbike. those seats are usually higher than the driver seat, and farangs are usually also taller than thais. if you sit there on the bike you are usually look at least one head taller than the driver ... it always looks funny.
the ride starts, and there are different types of drivers. the new ones, just starting their business, very carefully, hitting the breaks too many times, which shakes you back and forth on the seat. the experienced ones who drive fast but relatively safe (as far as that is possible), skipping lines to find free areas of the street wherever it is possible, slipping through the smallest space between two cars, and the risk takers, drivers without any sense for danger, going at high speed, not even breaking before the speed bumpers on the streets (you need a new backbone after such a ride).
such a ride might be fun for some of you, who enjoy to ride a bike. to drive on a (nearly) free petchabury road with speed 100 km/h, air cooling in the sunshine – that is really not bad! if it were really free, but it never is, there are always some cars on the road…and if there were profile on the tires to create some grip (which is usually not the case).
very special is also the experience on sukhumvit road when it is raining. the driver tries to use the dry parts of the road below the skytrain bridge – but sometimes he has to change the lines, and it gets slippery. if you have heart problems – never use a motorbike taxi.
the usual injuries of a motorbike taxi ride:
- a burn at the lower right leg, caused by the exhaust pipe during placing yourself on or dismounting the bike (damned shorts).
- wounds at the knee when hitting a car and the estimation of the driver about the width of the distance between two cars was wrong. the driver estimates usually based on his body size, but not based on the body size of his farang guest.
- wounds at your hands or even broken fingers if you are not careful enough and move your arms during the ride– and crash against a side mirror of a car
- backbone injuries because of hitting street bumpers or chuckholes with full speed
the usual ways of dying:
- a car changes the line and does not realize the motorbike next to it and hits it, or the motorbike cannot stop fast enough and crashes against the car.
- the drivers estimation of space between two cars is wrong, your knee hits the car and you are knocked from the bike. the driver survives.
- rain or dirt on the road, and the driver overestimates his abilities to deal with it, looses control over the bike, and crashes.
you also need to know how to get to your destination, and to be able to explain the way to the driver – never ever try to simply tell the motorbike driver the name of a hotel or a shopping center. he will start going anywhere, driving around, making money – whether he knows the destination or not. in the worst case you might end somewhere in a total different part of the city, have to pay for the motorbike taxi and then you will be left alone – because the driver is thai, and thais make no mistakes, it was you who told him the wrong place to go. do not even think about not to pay in this case - then things get really nasty, may be the police gets involved, but usually this drivers are used to fix that problems with their fists.
but there are other risks involved if you take a motorbike.
imagine you have a date with a young beautiful horny lady waiting for you somewhere in her apartment or a hotel. and whilst sitting on the motorbike your thoughts are already with her, and your fantasy is painting pictures about what will happen soon. you can virtually feel her already – and you might then realize some physical changes, something like an erection, supported by the way you sit there on the motorbike, with spread legs, pressure of street bumps on the root of your dick – and in front of you the motorbike taxi driver.
now there are the rules of the mechanics, acceleration and deceleration. a jam occurs, the driver hit the breaks, and the guest on the pillion seat is moved forward by the forces and pressed against the driver… --- if you are lucky he ignores what he feels at his back. if you are not so lucky he feels offended and turns into a kick boxer – and you will end up in a hospital. and if you have very bad luck he is gay, misunderstands something and changes the destination of the tour to the next short time hotel…
in any case a motorbike ride in bangkok is an adventure – you never know whether you reach your destination or not. but if you reach it in good health - it was for sure the fastest way to get there.
giotto
If you have the strong desire to put an end to your life - the easiest way to die in Bangkok is to use a motorbike taxi....
GiottoNothing could ever be urgent enough for me to justify a motorbike taxi. I have never taken one and I never ever will. The risk to catch aids barebacking with a known HIV positive might be at par. The more often you do it the more likely you will die. In both cases the risk of a death sentence exists from the first minute, but with motorbike taxis executions just happen faster.
NicFrenchy
01-15-07, 10:50
If you have the strong desire to put an end to your life - the easiest way to die in Bangkok is to use a motorbike taxi.
GiottoI have to disagree with that.
It's not that easy to die using the moto-taxi. I have been using them minimum twice a day for the past 2 years (comes to about a good 675 rides total) and not counting the times I myself rented a bike (Phuket, Samui, HuaHin, ChiangMai, ChiangRai).
I'll say the easiest way to die in Thailand is to insult a Thai man in front of others (preferably his friends or his family), the loss of face will be too obvious for him to let you live another second! He will probably kill you, and not worry about the eyewitnesses :
1. Thai people never think about the consequences of their actions.
2. Thais will never help a Farang over another Thai in case of an accident.
Well, that's my point of view anyway.
Fun Times69
01-16-07, 07:43
But there are other risks involved if you take a motorbike.
Imagine you have a date with a young beautiful horny lady waiting for you somewhere in her apartment or a hotel. And whilst sitting on the motorbike your thoughts are already with her, and your fantasy is painting pictures about what will happen soon. You can virtually feel her already – and you might then realize some physical changes, something like an erection, supported by the way you sit there on the motorbike, with spread legs, pressure of street bumps on the root of your dick – and in front of you the motorbike taxi driver.
Now there are the rules of the mechanics, acceleration and deceleration. A jam occurs, the driver hit the breaks, and the guest on the pillion seat is moved forward by the forces and pressed against the driver… --- If you are lucky he ignores what he feels at his back. If you are not so lucky he feels offended and turns into a kick boxer – and you will end up in a hospital. And if you have very bad luck he is gay, misunderstands something and changes the destination of the tour to the next short time hotel…
In any case a motorbike ride in Bangkok is an adventure – you never know whether you reach your destination or not. But if you reach it in good health - it was for sure the fastest way to get there.
Giotto
A very good reason to not use a motorbike taxi when horny girls are around! lol ;D
Next weeks installment, Giotto tells us what happened after he arrived at the short time hotel on that particular day.
I have to disagree with that.
It's not that easy to die using the moto-taxi. ...
Snookynic,
you are probably right. I did not mean it that serious.
To make a Thai man loose face in front of his friends or his family is dangerous, too.
Giotto
In the ISG we can find reports about the THB 500,00 Pattaya Beach Road girls as well as the THB 5,000.00 SPASSO or Pegasus Club hostesses. Running an establishment like Livingstone’s Lodge adds many experiences to ones life. Here a complete different POV to the “Prices for P4P” discussion. The Story:
Dinner was agreed for 7 pm that night. The customers had been visiting the Sports Lounge the night before that dinner, and discovered one of the flowers of the house: the Mamasan. Yes, she told them during that first night already, that she never goes out with customers, as the Mamasan. But she can have a dinner, of course, outside in Livingstone’s restaurant.
Not that anybody might think that this is an exception – the Mamasan has nearly every day a customer inviting her for dinner. Sooner or later she will want to eat somewhere else, because to eat the food of the same restaurant every day is also somehow boring. But bringing customers in, keeping them in Livingstone’s and introducing them later to the girls is her job. And for sure – she does her job very well.
The customers came in, two men in their early forties, a table was prepared for fine dining. Another lady of the Sports Lounge joined those 3 for the dinner, two couples dining, the basic set-up for a romantic night was arranged, and the major attempt of one of those customers to seduce the Mamasan could start. How to get her into the right mood, make her relax – and make her feel be a bit horny?
Of course, Champagne. The wine list, please!!
What? Livingstone’s doesn’t have Dom Perignon? What a lousy restaurant… – Our service supervisor reacted fast. “No problem, we can organize that for you, just 10 minutes.” After 15 min. we definitely opened the first bottle of Dom Perignon at that table, bought in the close-by Villa market within minutes. Dom Perignon is not that cheap, especially not here in Thailand.
Food was ordered, Thai and farang food, steaks, everything the menu could deliver for making the Mamasan happy. One bottle of Dom was gone fast, and the ladies started to feel good already. Giggling could be heard, intensive conversation, jokes and laughter – one more bottle of Dom, please! That must be the right way to break the resistance…
Things went well for about an hour, 4 people dining, having a good wine with the food, desert, coffee – and then some long drinks. The Mamasan felt the champagne, and behaved accordingly. Both came closer, teasing each other – time to come to the point: Let’s go out! What is the bar fine?
Without taking the smile out of her face the Mamasan insisted that she does not go out with customers. She were the Mamasan here in Livingstone’s, responsible for all those girls working in the bar. She would not go out.
The customer realized that his attack no. 1 had failed. A strategy change was needed to impress the Mamasan. And being aware of the customs here in Thailand he knew, that nice talking and politeness was the only remaining chance he had. What’s about if the Mamasan goes home, and does not work today any more?
The Mamsan answered, that this would only be possible if all girls also went out before, and that usually does not happen. But if – then she could go home early.
The Mamasan-customer made a fast decision: Let us barfine all girls, and send them home! The mamasan got serious: Are you aware how much money that costs? There are many girls in the bar, and it is not even 11 pm?
The Mamasan-customer did not care. He ordered a drink for all girls including the receptionists outside. Rumours about a highly lucrative table were spreading around in Livingstone’s and everybody was watching what would happen next. All girls got a drink and went to the table of that customer. They were sitting on chairs around the table, on the rim of the Swimming Pool, girls all over that place.
Cheers! You are all barfined! Go out and have fun!
19 girls barfined. The boss was informed about the unusual events. The boss ordered the Service Supervisor to go to the customer and tell him how much he had to pay for that, and to ask again whether he really wanted to do that. There was NO REASON to do so. The boss also ordered the Mamasan to again tell the customer that she was not going out with him, that all this was only to allow her to go home early.
The customer insisted in bar-fining all girls. The boss shook his head, gave up – and smiled.
A second round of lady drinks was ordered, fun around the table, big laughter, good mood – why not, what the hell, we all only live once, why not having a crazy night one time, if that man wanted to spend all that money…
Then the customer took out a bundle of bank notes of his pocket and handed THB 1,000.00 to every girl. 19 girls received financial support. He finally handed THB 4,000.00 to the Mamasan. She immediately refused to take it, and after a short controversial mix-up she slipped the bank notes back into his pocket. No discussions about that, please. She was happy that the girls received some money. She was not for sale.
Our customer in the Sports Lounge started to leave. No ladies in the Sports Lounge. The customers felt lonely and isolated. The Mamasan realized that and asked if some of the girls could return to the Sports Lounge to entertain their customers in there. The mamasan-customer generously allowed that. You don’t have to pay barfine for those girls…but he insisted!
After another hour the big group dissolved step by step, some girls went back to the Sports Lounge, some went home, some went out for dancing, drinking and immediately spend the money they just had received. The dinner came to an end.
Check, please! The total amount was close to THB 60,000.00 . The Mamasan checked the bill, and it was OK. The customer paid, without showing any sign of pain. The boss smiled.
Now the Mamasan had to go home. That was what all that was about. She changed and came back to the table. Finally the same group were sitting at that table which originally had started the evening – two customers and the Mamasan. Mobile numbers were exchanged. The final step of the customers strategy!
Drinks for the road, on the house, the boss ordered not to charge anything to that customers any more. After some more drinks – around midnight – the customers decided to leave. All the staff, the remaining girls queued up and accompanied the customers to the road. Good bye – and come back soon!!!.
The Mamasan left, too. – 10 quiet minutes followed. Everybody in Livingstone’s was talking about this main event of the evening.
Then the boss got a phone call. The Mamasan: The customer had called her, he opened another bottle of Champagne in Novotel. He wanted her to go there. What shall she do?
The Mamasan and the Boss came to the conclusion that if the customer opened the bottle downstairs in a public bar she should go, simply to make him happy and show respect. It is nothing wrong with drinking a bottle of Champagne in the bar.
15 min. later the next phonecall: Wrong Novotel, it was not Novotel Lotus in Soi 33, the customer stayed in Novotel Siam Square, and he had opened the bottle of Champagne IN HIS ROOM. This time the Mamasan did not ask what to do any more, she was already on the way home. She refused to go to his room.
He called her all night, all next morning, until he finally arrived at the airport, leaving Thailand for his home country. He was angry during that night, but finally, at the airport, he had calmed down: I will send a ticket to you, that you can come here! He never gave up, and up to today he still calls, and still wants to send the ticket.
He met the Mamasan the night before that Gala Dinner Night. He knew here only a few hours.
--------
In the ISG we talk a lot about men spending money here in Thailand. Some are looking for the cheapest option to spend some time with a girl, and others have obviously no limits if it comes to paying for somebody they like. They don’t even care if their attempts then finally fail.
What I know today is that the most successful girls are those who are not immediately available for money. They wake up the hunter in the men, and a obviously never gives up. He spends more and more money on that girl, in his attempt to succeed and with whatever means convince the girl to end up with him in the bedroom. And most of the girls will finally agree, but there are still some girls left, who won’t.
This story is not an exception. A lot of other stories could be told. Condos and cars are offered to those girls, who are not easily available. Another girl from Livingstone’s which does not go out with customers, got USD 1,000.00 tip for just talking to a customer one night. I never got USD 1,000.00 tip in my life…damned, what is wrong with me?
P4NP – Paying For Not Playing, that is the real big business for the girls, and for the bars/restaurants either.
Giotto
NicFrenchy
02-19-07, 10:19
Wow. I'll be damned.
I am sure if that man spent the money he spent (close to 100k) he could easily afford it. Some people get more thrill out of flirting than actually fucking. What is easily accessible is not worth it to a hunter.
And maybe the gentleman bet with his buddy that he would bed the Mamasan?
Who knows? but a very entertaining story. I will make the BG7 500/st dudes get a Heart Attack LOL
Giotto,
Thanks for the story. Some people need more practice at not getting what they want. They don't realize that the key to a woman's heart isn't always money.
...
And maybe the gentleman bet with his buddy that he would bed the Mamasan?
...NicFrenchy,
Of course I cannot be sure, but he is still in contact with the Mamasan, he did not give up yet. Doesn't look to me like a bet.
Giotto
"Whoa!" is all got to say about that! Sheesh! I wish I had been there to watch all that transpire...
...Who knows? but a very entertaining story. I will make the BG7 500/st dudes get a Heart Attack LOLNicFrenchy,
LOL - thanks.
Surprisingly this is NOT an exceptional story. It happens once a while, again and again.
Giotto
Giotto,
Thanks for the story. Some people need more practice at not getting what they want. They don't realize that the key to a woman's heart isn't always money.
I don't think he was looking for the key to her heart, just her panties!!!! :D
Giotto, since I am down and out in Angeles City with nothing to do, I have been revisiting all your stories with relish. Not all of us post replies, but they are being read by many with great enjoyment, so keep them coming (pun intended). I am now subscribed to this thread. Almost makes me feel like I am still there in the happiest place on earth (for us, a headache for you, I know!).
Cheers!
2J
...Giotto, since I am down and out in Angeles City with nothing to do, I have been revisiting all your stories with relish. Not all of us post replies, but they are being read by many with great enjoyment, so keep them coming (pun intended). ...Too Jaded,
This city generates so many stories, I could write one every day. But not enough time, and it would be boring, too. But, from time to time there will be a new story to keep you and all the BESTARDS out there connected to the Lodge.
Meanwhile the Monster Bestards arrived: EU Contractor. He will keep me busy and coming...I have no doubts about that. What a hard life here in Bangkok :) . But I am quite sure that you also suffer a lot in Angeles City...I have never been there up to now.
I can provide a new thread: "Too Jaded's Stories!" What's about that :) ?
Giotto
During the first year of running Livingstone’s we had no incidents like this, and since the beginning of this year already three. The story(ies):
Case No. 1
A new customer came to the Sports Lounge in January, as it happens every day. Sitting down, ordering a drink and getting used to the unknown environment. A well dressed man in his 50’s , a customer the girls like. No wonder that he found accompany soon, sitting with 3 of the girls first, and playing pool with one of the girls later then. Everything seamed to be fine, both got closer, joking, smiling, having fun. The customer contacted the Mamasan then. He wanted to take the girl out for the night, and take her to Pattaya the following 2 nights. He paid the barfine, a smiling girl with him, and everything seams to be fine.
3 days later the girl came back. Lot’s of tears. They had spend two “perfect” days and three “very active” nights in Bangkok/Pattaya. The last day the girl was sent to make the arrangements for the transfer back to Bangkok, Airport. When she came back with a taxi the customer had already checked out and left the hotel.
He did not pay a single THB for the lady.
Case No. 2
The basic story is similar like the first one, a customer came to our bar that we did not know. This customer was younger, handsome, dressed like a younger man, not that sort of man the girls usually are looking for. They know that these customers are “butterflying”, and that they usually do not take out girls from bars.
In this case things went differently, the customer got into contact with one of our most experienced lady, a girl which does not like to stay alone in the nights. He made a deal for the bar fine with us, for 5 nights, and off they went.
5 days later the girl came back. No tears, but clear statements. Not a single THB was paid, the customer send her away after waking up the last morning. Cold as ice, she could go to the police and file a complaint, he would not care. She were anyway only a *****. She came to us, talked long time to the Mamasan, and returned to work the same evening.
Case No. 3
This is the worst case I have heard of up to now. A customer called one of our girls, which he had met the year before, when she did not work in Livingstone’s. That time she worked in a small hotel in a side road of Sukhumvit, and the customer returned to that hotel. He came to see her the first night after he arrived, to hook up with her and stay with her for all his vacation in Bangkok, as he promised.
She negotiated a deal about the bar fine with him, for 8 days, and he paid. Both the immediately left, 8 days paid bar fines, plus two days the lady had days-off – all together they were not seen for 10 days. That is basically already a very dangerous signal, because then obviously Livingstone’s Sports Lounge is too expensive for his budget.
They had some good days together, crusading around the Sukhumvit beer bar area, but after some days they started to fight. Our girl wanted to go out sometimes, buy food, go shopping, but the customer did not give her any money. He preferred to sleep long, have a lot of service, stay in his hotel. In the nights then they went out for street food and some beers.
The day came when she requested money, and his ATM card did not work. He apologized many time, nice talking, and he would come to Livingstone’s that night to give her the money for the 10 days they had stayed together, or leave it with the boss or the Mamasan.
Of couse he did not show up.
The girl came to Livingstone’s that night and asked whether somebody had left some money for her - with me. I knew nothing. The Mamasan knew nothing, but she heard about the problem and told the girl to come back to work. Nobody expected how bad this case would turn.
The girl decided to fix that problem by herself. She knew the hotel, she knew the customer would stay until the end of this month. And she took a friend and waited for him until he came back to the hotel late night. Of course he was not alone, he had another new girl with him.
She first asked for the money, and after he apologized again in the beginning, talking about his problem not to have any access to money he changed the argumentation, being more and more angry – why should he pay? He suddenly did not want to pay any more. The girl then blocked his way to the hotel entrance, starting to push him back a little bit, and arguments were heating up the situation. Finally the friend of our girl lost control and started to attack that customer, his new female friend for the night ran away, and and and … I don’t know details, but there must have been a medium heavy fist fight. Luckily nobody was seriously hurt.
The next day I got a phone call from the Mamasan, the girl had informed her what had happened. We had a meeting, and I was informed that the girl had taken away gold chain and the credit cards and other documents during that fight. Luckily again – she did not take the passport.
When she told us all the story the girl was sitting opposite to me, and she was crying and crying. It was not so much about the money, it was the humiliation she felt. Why this customer did that to a Thai woman, he also wanted to get paid for his work, his job. She wanted him to somehow suffer that he would not do something like that again to other Thai working girls. With no means of argumentation I could cool her down, make her understand that she had done the wrong thing, that she made everything worse, and that it was HER now who could be arrested - not him. The police will never support a working girl to get her nightly fee from a customer, but they will help the customer to find her after she took his credit cards and the gold chain, and treat her as a thief. That’s the reality.
We contacted the customer and managed to avoid more problems for the girl. We also informed our police connection about the incident, made a protocol, to avoid that the customer would take any action after things were settled. He promised to come and bring the money to me, but up to today he did not show up. I don’t want to comment on such a low-life behaviour.
But the worst thing is, that I had to fire that girl to avoid that such an incident happens again in the future, and to send a clear message to all other girls.
Giotto
Cases like these makes me both furious and sad. But after the fact there is not much that can be done or is there. In these three cases, the girl can't go to the police, as you said. They are basically SOL.
One thing comes to mind, and this is just a thought. When the time comes to take the girl, the customer HAS to pay the bar fine upfront. He has no choice, pe se. No BF, no Girl. So the bar has already made its money. But the girl is now left to the mercy of the customer and has no recourse. So the suggestion is
1) Have the customer pay upfront, and if the things don't work out he can get a refund. Of course, this means the bar would be an official brothel. Ok, throw this idea out.
2) Start a pool of funds from bar fines etc. In cases like these, some compensation can be made from this fund.
3) Have a firing squad for these A-holes, or at the very least get the dungeon going.
NicFrenchy
03-21-07, 04:44
Very interesting Stories.
I am actually reading these stories with mixed feelings... on one hand I feel sorry for the ladies, they provided a service and did not get retribution for it. These lame ass Farangs give all of us a bad name.
On the other hand, I am not so sorry for them because, when you think about it, how many cases of guys ripped off by Working girls are also out there? probably more.
don't get me wrong, This is unacceptable behaviour from a Farang to play such games with a lady. Especially when they know these girls are poor and doing this only for the money.
what interests me, is that, when you think about it, there can never be a Win-win situation 100% of the time...
1. if you pay all in advance, the girl might play tricks on you and not perform what was agreed
2. if you pay after, the stories below might occur again.
Let's hope these cases are not going to repeat themselves too often because it will end up spoiling everyone's fun.
Definitely a bad story. Unbelievable.
The question is what could be done?
Are the customers proved by an ID (Copy passport) to take out a girl?
If their ID is taken, at lease some protective measures could be done. e.g. remind that in Thailand the payment may not be legally asked for, but it could be asked in his homecountry probably.
Also it could be mentioned that in the last case a girl was reporting such things to one of the customers homecountries newspapers, and they are alway keen on those stories.
It will be a difficult balance between somehow protect the girl, but as well follow the policy not beeing involved in the girls - customer direct financial transfer.
I will think about it, but difficult.
A lot of cheep charlies around. However they make our 'honest' members life more difficult, as the girl will act differently next.
regards
Brain666
1) Have the customer pay upfront, and if the things don't work out he can get a refund. Of course, this means the bar would be an official brothel. Ok, throw this idea out.
2) Start a pool of funds from bar fines etc. In cases like these, some compensation can be made from this fund.
3) Have a firing squad for these A-holes, or at the very least get the dungeon going.Sir,
reg. 1)
Correct, we cannot do that, it would be illegal.
reg. 2)
That's an idea, I will discuss that with the Mamasan.
reg. 3)
That would cause big trouble for Bangkok/Thailand, too many dead tourists. Let's rule that out, too.
Giotto
...
On the other hand, I am not so sorry for them because, when you think about it, how many cases of guys ripped off by Working girls are also out there? probably more.
...
NicFrenchy,
I understand your thoughts...but then the question is whether those girls ripping customers of are not our own developments. May be it starts with this kind of experiences that the girls learn not to trust customers, and a negative spiral of events follows.
And I don't know, who was first, the hen or the egg?
The only thing we mongers can do is to make sure, that we behave correctly and fulfull our part of the deal.
Giotto
...
The question is what could be done?
Are the customers proved by an ID (Copy passport) to take out a girl?
...
Brain666,
Interesting idea. I think about bars taking the ID cards / passport copies of the customers who bar fine girls...those bars would be out of business within weeks, breaking the most basic rule: discretion.
Giotto
Herewith is a discussion between a Mamasan, in ANY BKK bar, and a prospective punter.
Mamasan: yes sir, you wish to BF Noi?
customer: yes I would, she is quite lovely, and I am sure she loves me.
Mamasan: Certainly sir, the BF is ....bt please.
Customer: ok, here you go.
Mamasan: thank you, Oh, by the way, I need your passport please, so I can run upstairs, and take a photocopy of it, to keep for my records.
Customer: Are you fucking shitting me?
Mamasan: I assure you sir, I am most certainly not shitting you.
Customer: Well, you might as well be, coz I am fucking out of here !!!!
Yup, that bar, IF that info doesn't get posted on ISG withing 1 hour, would last 1 week. If it did get posted, it would last 3 days.
There is also the fact no WG would agree to it either, as they would all know the immediate outcome.
Bad idea, next ?
...
Bad idea, next ?Mr. Vice President,
We could ask for the E-Mail addresses of the wives of the customers. If they then not pay - we send an E-mail to the wife and ask them to pay for their husbands obligations :) !
Giotto
NicFrenchy
03-22-07, 08:41
Mr. Vice President,
We could ask for the E-Mail addresses of the wives of the customers. If they then not pay - we send an E-mail to the wife and ask them to pay for their husbands obligations :) !
GiottoBrilliant idea! LOL and for those who are not married, the email of your mother would do the trick!
Happy mongering LOL
Brilliant idea! LOL and for those who are not married, the email of your mother would do the trick!
...NicFrenchy,
there are wives, girlfriends, mothers, grandmothers, sisters, daughters...we take the E-Mail addresses of all of them, no problem.
BTW: When you come to have a beer here with me, we can write a massage parlor report together...Bangkok Massage Parlor Dissertation :) .
Giotto
Hi Giotto !
During my last Trip in January, your Manager convinced me to stay at Livingstone next time.
I will check in on 30.03.07 noon time and will stay 1 night.
Maybe we will find some time to have a beer together ( or two )
BTW : Is there any Party planned for Friday night ?
...BTW : Is there any Party planned for Friday night ?Shorty1,
The Swimming Pool Party this month is on Saturday, 31.03.2007 ... as I see it in the moment you will miss it, one day too early.
Anyway, come over here, see you on Friday.
Giotto
Father’s birthday is an important day here in Thailand. If the parents still live together it is the day when all children visit home to celebrate the event. The story:
The days before the event were tense. The couple had fights again and again, mainly because of minor misunderstandings. No real reason for trouble, but again and again the verbal argument escalated and ended with the famous imaginary wall in the middle of the bed – one sleeping far on the left side, and the other one on the right.
The real background of all this was the decision Thai woman had to make: Shall she bring her boyfriend home - she knew him already a year now, and lived together with him since 6 months – and present him to her family? No, the family was OK with that, for sure – it was about the father. Should she bring the farang boyfriend to meet the FATHER?
The problem was that she had already shown two other men to her father within the last 15 (!) years. The first relationship broke up after just a year, she couldn’t make it as the second wife of a Thai-Chinese man when she was just 17 years old. That relationship left a child living with this man now. Later then there was this man from England, and that relationship lasted 7 years. After a few years she brought him home to see her parents, and the father never liked that man.
And now – she should bring the next man home? And what if that relationship would not work again on the long term?
The mother has visited the couple a month ago, after she hadn’t heard from her daughter for a long time. The family was worried, and especially the mother knew how much the father was suffering not to know how his beloved daughter was. So the mother decided to travel to Bangkok to talk to her daughter. During this meeting the mother requested first time to bring the boyfriend home. The father was sick since a year, and this birthday could be his last. Nobody really talked about this, but the message was clear. The father wanted to get to know this man his daughter was living with, he wanted to be sure that somebody was taking care of his daughter - his condition would get more serious in the future.
Ever since this visit of her mother Thai woman got phone calls from sisters, reminding her to bring her boyfriend home for Father’s birthday. At least 3 phone calls a week with the question: Will he come? Will you bring him?
--- The decision was made in the night before the birthday. No sleep at all, a major argument, in which everything was said. They came to the point – to go and meet the father is like a marriage. The question: Were they ready for that commitment? After both wanted to leave, and nobody loved the other one any more, and selfishness was discussed endlessly – the real facts were unpacked, and there was no chance anymore for sideward movements. He had waited all the time to be asked to meet her father, and she had waited all the time that he asked to go there. A deadlock situation which had to be resolved.
She finally made the decision: “Do you want to go with me tomorrow to my Father’s birthday?”
His answer: “Let’s sleep, and if you ask me again tomorrow morning I will go!” And she asked again next morning …
They left Bangkok at around 11 am, after receiving two more calls from the mother and a sister. Nakhom Pathom, approx. 60 km to the west of Bangkok, one and a half hours by taxi. And the briefing started, as many times before. Her father was a serious old man, he never smiled, good Thai behaviour and politeness was a absolute necessity. The clothes were already determined by her – easy Thai style, no farang pants and white shirts, nothing which could indicate that the boyfriend had money. Do not give any money to the kids there living in the house. Do not talk about the businesses you are running. Do not offer any help to my family. Do not complain about anything you see in my house. Do not … the bottom line was: Do exist. But please don’t talk!
Nakhom Pathom – rice fields. Famous for high quality rice, and beautiful daughters of fathers. She was nervous when they left the highway and entered the small roads leading to her home. Her father was the most important person in her life. It was not her boyfriend – it still was her father. How would he react? What would happen?
Rice fields, some palm tree hedges separating them, cultivated agricultural area – nice countryside, but poor! The boyfriend had not expected that Thai woman came from such a poor family. The houses all self made, only a few real stone buildings, most of the buildings with a mix of stone- and wooden walls and corrugated iron sheet roofs. The taxi finally stopped in front of one of those buildings – the house of her family. In a way not one house, to house joined together on the first level, and the older part of the house had a wooden made second floor. Spacious and rooms for all the children – father and mother had 5 daughters!
They took off their shoes and entered the house. Simple concrete floor – nobody was there at the entry room, but when the walked to the living area, the only area with tiles on the floor – the father, standing on a table (!) fixing some festival decoration material at the ceiling! The father did not look at his daughter, he immediately turned towards her boyfriend. The boyfriend smiled – and wai-ed. The unthinkable happened – the father smiled back, and wai-ed back! He had never smiled to the other men before. – Then he turned around and went ahead with his decoration activities.
Two sisters were there already, preparing food – what else can a Thai family do to prepare a festival. And the mother in the middle of all activities – wai, wai, wai. The boyfriend knew he was observed by everybody, he could feel the scrutinizing looks again and again. A farang, an alien – but, he looks quite normal, how come ?!?
The boyfriend was shown around – all rooms of the house, the kitchen (if it can be called a kitchen), bathroom (no flowing water in the house), the Buddha room upstairs, the land around the house, and the only room with a/c – the parents bedroom. Yes, for the boyfriend the house was poor, but it was warm, full with family memories and the history of building up house and family. The right place for kids to grow up, so much space in and around the house, so many things to learn and to experience, a safe place. --- Safe? The boyfriend asked for snakes around the house. Answer: Lots of them, they are even coming into the house when it is raining … outside it started to rain. --- But only during the nights! The boyfriend looked at his watch. 3 pm. Good!
The father was back in serious mode. He was active. Moving things from here to there. Doing the dishes, preparing glasses. Cooking. Soya bean sprouts with bean curd. Shrimps in red sauce. Pork and beef sausages. Sour duck feet soup. And, and, and…Things were ok for the father, for the moment, his so much beloved daughter was there with the alien, that was THE birthday present for him. He sat down in a corner of the house later, and suddenly turned around, that nobody could see those few tears of happiness, when all his daughters had finally arrived.
The eldest daughter was 35 years old, the youngest one just 19. Four children of the daughters were there. A happy and complete family – was it? Complete? How different Thailand is…it was by far not complete.
The father had 5 wives. The mother was actually the 4th wife in the line, but when he met her 36 years ago the relationship with the first two were already finished. The 3rd wife that time was “mia luang”, the official first wife. The mother was then “mia noi”, the small wife, the second wife. The father had all together 12 children, 5 daughters with the mother, 5 sons with the 3rd wife, and 2 children with the other wives (Author’s remark: Lost the overview). That birthday 6 children showed up – only one son from the 3rd wife, though the other sons were also living close by. In a way the family with the 4th wife was complete, but all the family around the father was much bigger.
That lifestyle had obviously also had an impact on the lives of the children. The first daughter had no husband, and had spent most of her life in temples. The second daughter lived alone, she was the second wife of a rich old Thai man before, and she was taking care of her two children now. The third daughter in line was the Thai woman with the farang boyfriend. The 4th daughter was there with her husband, but she was also the second wife of this husband. After the festival the husband, a Thai Chinese working for the local government, would return home the to his first wife. He had two kids with his first and two kids with his second wife. The 5th daughter was still studying and living alone. The son came with his second wife and would return later to sleep at home, too – back to wife no. 1. – And if somebody has lost the overview now – don’t even try to understand it, this is Thailand!
But everything was quite normal. Husbands and wives dealt very nicely with each other. No problem at all. All second wives knew about the first wives, and the first wives also knew about those second wives!
The family owned an old Karoke machine, which was then switched on. Everybody except the father was singing, eating, drinking Whisky and beer, and the mood became more enthusiastic. Jokes, laughter, old stories, sing-a-song … .
One daughter had worked before in a high-class sing-a-song place in Nakhom Pathom. Old pictures were showing her during one of her birthdays, in a dress pinned with THB 1,000.00 banknotes from the top to the bottom. The boyfriend asked about the amount of that, it looked like a huge amount of money. He got the information that it was around half a million baht (!).
He could not believe it. He discretely asked Thai woman for details. Why should Thai customers give so much money for a simple birthday? Did she go out with men? --- No, of course not. The father would never have accepted that. She was singing there, and sitting with the customers, but not even touching was allowed. --- How come, is this area so rich, that the men have too much money to give it to those sing-a-song girls, instead of spending it for their wife, second, third … n wives, gigs etc. ? --- There are many rich men around, and they support those sing-a-song girls. --- Hmmmm, the boyfriend did not really believe that. But – who knows…
At around 7 pm things changed. Father, mother and Thai woman left the party table and sat down aside to discuss family issues. The alien, of course – one thing to talk about. But then there was the problem with the 5th daughter. Thai woman had taken responsibility for her professional education, and that daughter had obviously no intention to study as the family had decided. She had her own ideas, and in the moment her love life was obviously more important. 5th daughter was asked to join the family council. Serious discussions – and tears. Hefty arguments followed.
After a while the father left the council and sat down in a different corner. The mother left too and came back to the party table. Daughter No. 1 joined – No. 1, 3, and 5 argued. The mother joined again. And it went on like this for at least one hour. Family council, family tribunal! Finally – Thai woman had enough, she gave some straight guidelines to daughter no. 5 – and the council was terminated.
The mood had changed. The family was serious and thoughtful, everybody more and more quiet. Everybody was relieved when it was then 8 pm - birthday cake time, birthday song time. Singing, cutting the cake, a few tears here and there … and the party was over. Time to catch a taxi to return to Bangkok.
Wai’s in all direction, some words from the boyfriend to the father, “Good Health”, the main wish - and again some tears in fathers eyes. Again nobody knew – was it because the party was over? Was it because daughter no. 5? Was it because of being worried about Thai women and the alien?
It was not easy to find a taxi out there, a motorbike ride to the next bigger street first, and then … but that is a different story. Finally they were back in Bangkok late night. The mood of Thai woman – difficult to explain. Being relieved about having her boyfriend presented to her father, and having made a decision for her life – but then this story with sister no. 5 – she was very worried about that. They did not talk much in the taxi, everybody was very much digesting that eventful day.
---
Next day the father was on the phone. He was obviously really happy – good news: Sister no. 5 had decided to follow the recommendations of the family council, she had not slept all night, cried – and then made a decision.
And the father told Thai woman what he thought about the man she brought yesterday. “He has a good heart, and he helps when he is asked for, and when he recognizes that help is needed. He is a butterfly, but he takes over responsibility for what he does. He is a good man.”
It took a load off her mind. She had not expected that. First the good news about sister no. 5, and then: her father liked this man, though he was a farang and had other wives before her.
This (!) – is Thailand.
Giotto
NicFrenchy
05-09-07, 18:14
WOW, that was quite a story!
Thank you Giotto.
ArchieLeach
05-10-07, 06:42
Great story
Very nice story Giotto. It helps me understand Thai family life a bit.
Great story! Gives us westerners some insight into Thai culture. Thanks...that took some time to put together!
Giotto: Your posts are entertaining and very much appreciated. As Xdentx said, this report would have taken a lot of time and effort to prepare and indicates a pretty good insight into the culture of a land that is foreign to you. And well written in a language that is not your native tongue.
Do you think any of us would recognize the farang in the story?
Giotto: Your posts are entertaining and very much appreciated. As Xdentx said, this report would have taken a lot of time and effort to prepare and indicates a pretty good insight into the culture of a land that is foreign to you. And well written in a language that is not your native tongue.
Do you think any of us would recognize the farang in the story?Karaoke,
Thank you.
Yes, it takes some time to write this stories. But somehow it is fun. I did not know before that I one day would like to write stories like this, but now I really enjoy it - sometimes, when I have time for that. And - you need a story first, otherwise the result is boring nonsense.
Hmm, can somebody recognize that farang? Yes, if you follow the threads of this forum since longer time you will know who that farang is.
Giotto
Tamurlane26
05-11-07, 16:03
You may find our Farang friend in many places the only difference is the sound of his voice - the melancholy one as he reflects on the moments and the wasted opportunities and of course the search for the Holy Grail the ultimate experience.
The irony is that fact is far more interesting than fiction and reading through your charming tale one can also say "there but for the grace of what go I".
Now after this latest literary feat perhaps one should considered taking the more sensible stories - are there any ? - finding a publisher and then sharing such wisdom with a wider audience.
Am dragged back to the bookshelves of the airport where some poorly written stories masquerade as the life behind the bars of Thailand. Much more amusing to read a more "warts and all tale".
Congratulations and best wishes from the Singlish - yes it took many hours to look up all these long words in a deperate attempt to demonstrate some credence that once upon a time there was an englishman in there - albeit that Cornishmen never consider ourselves as English anyway !
You may find our Farang friend in many places the only difference is the sound of his voice - the melancholy one as he reflects on the moments and the wasted opportunities and of course the search for the Holy Grail the ultimate experience.
...
... albeit that Cornishmen never consider ourselves as English anyway !Tamurlane26,
ah, a Cornishman - I needed the dictionary to find out what that is. Thanks for your comment.
I think you do not find so many Farang here in Thailand in search of the Holy Grail - and that is why I write those stories. Thailand has more to offer than only girls. No publisher - I better write my small stories here in this forum, to make a difference. Otherwise nobody would read them anyway.
Giotto
Is this Livingstone's thing the real world? Sometimes you don't know for sure. The Story:
Sometimes I don't know where I am. Tonight, for example, it was a busy day, we fixed some computer problems, and I watched the trading at the SET. 9 pm - I walked towards the Sports Lounge.
The bar was basically full, all tables occupied, and I sat down on a single chair in the middle between the big screen and the pool table...
Why are all those people here? What do they want?
There was this tall guy, hotel guest since a few days, very much in love with one of our girls. He was here every night, buying drinks for that girl, playing pool - and he will be in trouble once he leaves! I can see it! The girl controls the situation, and that is "red alert" already! But - he doesnt realize it.
A group of Japanese business guys, suites, ties - one never played pool before, and then sends a perfect stop shot to an object ball - hmmm ... what was that? I watched it for a time, again and again he pretended that he never played pool before - but then he shot precisely, and win both games easily - a hustler! OK, for those who need that...
That indian guy came in again, complaining about that all other bars in Soi 33 have no customers. OK, good, what can I say? - I ask why we do have customer. He said because we are different, we have this swimming pool, this special ambience. - We had that last year already, and had no customers. And now it seams to be that there is only one bar here at Soi 33 - I cannot really believe that.
One customer talked longer to me, he likes to drink a glass of wine here! It is not possible to drink wine in Nana or cowboy - the cultivated way. I basically agree. I also drink wine. But - there are other places here in Bangkok where you can drink a glass of wine...
- It was peace -
- I was sitting there -
------
And then the management came in and told me that a suitcase had disappeared!!! A customer checked out yesterday morning, checked in today late - and his luggage gone.
I said: No, not possible, what is the SOP? --- (I looked into a question-mark face!). Now, I did not exspect an answer... I have talked about SOPs so many times during the past few years. And - this is Thailand, and whether Thai management or Farang management - there is no difference. There are no SOPs. Forget about SOPs.
Where is that damned suitcase?
The maid is responsible!!! ---- I said, "Yes", for sure, the maid - we will kill her, burn her, drown her --- but where is the suitcase??? --- Let's modify the question, where can the suitcase be???
I checked the hotel storage room, the basement, lost-and-found area --- the management had gone crazy - brain switch-off mode...
The customer left early in the morning, we called the night shift of that day. She told us that the suitcase was stored in the luggage room, exactly where it belonged, where it should be - I grapped the key to check the room myself. " It is not there !!!! " was the comment of the management.
Opened the door of the room, and there was - behind some laundry bags, cleaned clothes and other stuff - the suitcase!!!
Good! Perfect!!! Here we go - luggage to customer, nothing went wrong ... NOTHING?
Now, we have to sort this out... There was a problem, there was huge pressure!!!! I remember that. And now - nothing left? Nothing? For what did I take all that pressure?
-----
I went back to the Sports Lounge.
The guy in love had left - and he "loved". Hopefully it will not be too expensive for him - the aftermaths...
The Japanese group still played pool - and always the same guy won the games...
The Indian guy told me how good this bar was, and that all other bars in Soi 33 had no customers...
I drank a glass of wine.
-------
What happens in the real world?
Giotto
Suitcases - and The Real Word....
...What happens in the real world?
Giotto
It seems you had a sentimental moment in the middle of the night. What you get there is exactly what you get in every step of walk in the real world. Amazing Thailand.
Sentimental Moment? Sheesh, that was his first exciting thing of the day. Looks like he is bored to his skull. :)
Sentimental Moment? Sheesh, that was his first exciting thing of the day. Looks like he is bored to his skull. :)Bored while getting rich, what a dream. Or maybe a nightmare ???
It seems you had a sentimental moment in the middle of the night. ...Tiger 888,
May be sentimental - right. This microcosmos Livingstone's is sometimes - a very small world!
Again and again I see people creating problems for themselves which they would not have if they not came here! Getting drunk, love affairs with our girls, trying to escape from home but then the wife finds out...
In a way unreal.
Giotto
... Looks like he is bored to his skull. :)Sir,
To a certain extend - yes. If this guy comes in every second day and talks about that the other bars in the road have no customers - then it is somehow boring.
But on the other hand - new and interesting customers every day, too. That never gets boring.
Giotto
G, after reading "Private Dancer", (online, as when I read it, was not yet plublished), and "off the rails in Phnom Penh", it seems you see enough strange things on a daily basis to write a book.
"The fascinating goings on, of a small boutique hotel on soi33".
or
"Insider's guide to helping a newbie not fall in love with the first BG he meets".
or
"How to avoid the pitfalls of BKK nightlife."
or.........
Sir,
To a certain extend - yes. If this guy comes in every second day and talks about that the other bars in the road have no customers - then it is somehow boring.
But on the other hand - new and interesting customers every day, too. That never gets boring.
Giotto
True, Dr.G. The boredom I was referring to, however, was the exciting times of a missing suitcase. A missing BG, maybe.
True, Dr.G. The boredom I was referring to, however, was the exciting times of a missing suitcase. A missing BG, maybe.Sir,
How true! What is wrong with me if I am already excited about a missing suitcase. I shouldn't give a shit :), especially if it is yours.
Giotto
Heres a story for your Stories section
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BalLrSG-xIU&mode=related&search=
M P Lurker
08-07-07, 11:39
G, after reading "Private Dancer", (online, as when I read it, was not yet plublished), and "off the rails in Phnom Penh", it seems you see enough strange things on a daily basis to write a book.
"The fascinating goings on, of a small boutique hotel on soi33".
or
"Insider's guide to helping a newbie not fall in love with the first BG he meets".
or
"How to avoid the pitfalls of BKK nightlife."
or.........
Would be good to go interview bargirls who have been reported on by the Forum members and get the girls side of the story about what an arsehole, weirdo, nice guy, or super stud, he was, with lie detector connected.
This comparison would make interesting reading just to see how much exaggeration and bullshit occurs on the forum.
This report is delayed. The story happened nearly 3 weeks ago. The author needed some time to calm down after the events, to be able to write a relatively unemotional report. Summary: If it is necessary for you to run a hotel in Thailand – then don’t do it! The story:
Monday: Day 1
After a longer night in the Sports Lounge with a couple of good friends, pool and sufficient drinks I was still sleeping when a thunderstorm hit the region. It was a around 7:30 am in the morning, when 3 loud thunderclaps woke me up. The second one was in a way different – the a/c went off, power failure! Now – not that I was too worried, that happens sometimes here and does not last longer than minutes. So I turned around and tried to sleep again.
Power came back, and failed again after a while. This happened 3-4 times – and then it was off. And I knew – now something more serious had happened. I got up and heard that some of the transformers at the road had been blown up. That had caused this loud explosions. The electricity company repaired / exchanged them step by step, and nearly all the road had power again – except Livingstone’s. We talked to the electricity company, and they told us that if they switched on our line again it would immediately fail – something were short in our building. We checked our main breakers – they were not even off! So the immediate conclusion was that the main power supply line from the road to our breaker room was “short”.
We got our emergency electrician in. He arrived after an hour, and started to check “everything”. Especially – the rooms upstairs, the satellite room in the back of the building – I watched it a while and then I asked what he was doing, because the problem was for sure somewhere else, if our main breakers were not even down.
He then checked the main lines to the road, and came to the conclusion that everything was ok. We called the electricity company and asked them th switch on the power again. After an hour or so the electricity company came in, and told us that they were NOT going to switch the electricity on again, because something in our building were “short”. And anyway – the cables were cut already.
I listened – cables cut? What?
I went to the road, checked the lines, and I was nearly struck by lightning (virtually). The lines were cut – all four of them, our main power cables, and – they were cut directly next to the 200 A breakers which were sitting 50 cm. above it! There was definitely NO REASON to cut the lines, just the breakers had to be switched off!
Inside Livingstone’s the discussion between electrician and Electricity Company went on. What to do? Where was the problem? Where was the power line broken? A part of the main line runs in a pipe along a fence to the neighbour building, and then it disappears in the ground, for some meters in a garden area, and then leads into our building, below a outdoor terrace. They opened the pipe in the area where it disappears into the ground and tried to smell – smoke. And they smelled – smoke. I smelled – nothing. But they smelled – smoke. I checked the inside of the PVC pipe, for some accumulation of smoke – my fingers came out clean. But – the specialists concluded that they smelled smoke, and that somewhere in the ground, where nobody could follow that pipe, the line was “short”.
I asked why not on the other side of the pipe, that what was running along the fence, why that part in the ground – no, it must be there, in the ground, where it is “short”.
--- I had my first nervous breakdown of the day.
I went to the (hot) office for a moment, and relaxed. I reviewed the situation. The electricity company had cut the cables, and they insisted that something was wrong on our ground. Most likely there was nothing wrong, a “short” could not be measured/found from our side, but the electricity company would not reconnect the cables without that we do something. Losing face problem. Deadlock. No power forever. Livingstone’s with candles – ok, but water pressure would be good, sometimes our guests need to take a shower.
So far so good, there was no way out. I asked our electrician to give me a quotation for making a complete new line (outdoors and visible) from our main breaker room to the street! This are 60 m, 4 cables, 240 m cable!!! I immediately saw the smile on his face – money, money, money. The guy from the electricity company smiled too, and left.
Our electrician made some phone calls – and came up with the price. He would do that for – the very special price of THB 1,500.00 per m incl. material and work. 240 * THB 1,500.00 = THB 360,000.00 !!!
--- I had my second nervous breakdown of the day.
How long would he need? At least two days, he could not start that day anyway (it was 3 pm in the afternoon on Monday), because it was a holiday, and no shop open where he could buy the cable. This was a special cable, 150 sqmm cable strength.
We started calling building material companies, and after another our we had found one which gave us the price: THB 700 per m, and for 240 m we would get 25 % discount. So, we realized that we were going to be ripped of by the Thais again, but of course we had not much options to negotiate!
Parallel to all activities we started to call hotels around here, we had 19 guests staying at the hotel! And it got more and more clear that we would not get the electricity back this day. We furthermore activated and tested the water pump for the new building – would it create enough pressure that we could leave the guests in at least the 9 rooms of the new building? – Yes, not too good, but good enough. We started moving our guests either into the new building or our to another hotel.
One of our guests checking out late got hit hard then – we had no options any more, and when he came back to the hotel to prepare his journey back to Europe we could not even offer any place where he could take a shower. Improvisation with water bottles – this guest wasn’t happy, for sure.
We bought cables and brought in some electricity from the new building – this has a separate power supply, completely new! We could restart some computers, and had light in the hotel lobby.
On the electrician front the fight was over for the time being – after we had found out how much he tried to overcharge us he had simply left. He would send a quotation to us, only for his service, if we would order the cable somewhere else. We immediately ordered the cable to be delivered next day before noon. But we had to expect that our emergency electrician also had lost face, and would not show up again.
We contacted another company, some friends had recommendations. They promised to come immediately next morning to check everything and make a proposal what to do. Next morning, 9:30 am. They would come with a huge number of people, and would be able to even make a new power line within this day – now, it is easy to talk but we had to wait and see what the next day would bring.
7:00 pm, it got dark, customers in 9 rooms, no power, low water pressure. We send most of the staff home. It was a Buddhist holiday anyway, so we place a sign outside that we were closed. The first time since we opened on 31.12.2004 Livingstone’s was closed. What a shame!
Some girls stayed, and customers joined the girls around the bar. The beer of the fridges (bottles) was still cold. We moved a table to the hotel lobby and started a spontaneous “Livingstone’s in Complete Darkness” party. Nearly all our customers joined. We brought in food from outside, wine and beer was available from our bar – we made the best of it. It was fun. Parties like this are usually good fun .
Around 2 am in the morning we called it a day. What a day! But whenever you think it cannot get worse – life will show you that it can!
Tuesday: Day 2
I spent the night in one of our rooms in the old building, no water, no a/c . I jumped into the swimming pool before I slept… but of course it is nearly impossible to sleep in those hot rooms if you are used to sleep with a/c. But anyway, somehow the night passed by, and early in the morning I was downstairs again to stay updated about the development of the catastrophe.
At 9:30 am the new Electric company showed up. I was happy, they came as announced on time. A good start of the day. We explained the situation, and they started to check every thing. I let them do and organized coffee for our guests and us from Starbucks.
After an hour I still had no feedback. After 2 hours I got nervous, and we found them gathering in the main breaker room – discussing. Nothing was wrong on our side, they told us, everything ok. We somehow knew that. But now – how to proceed, what to do? They told us to call the Electricity Company in again. The Electricity Company came in, another hour later. Discussions again. They stood in from of the open PVC pipe again – and smelled smoke. And again the Electricity Company insisted on that something had to be done before they would connect the cable again outside at the road.
We asked them: Why were the cables cut, why did you not only switch off the breakers? – No answer, of course.
Again – deadlock. The Electricity Company refused to reconnect our building, and our electricians could not find any reason why there should be a short on our ground. – Yikes. - I realized that we would not get electricity back if we did not change anything on our ground. We had to pretend that we fixed the problem to avoid that the Electricity Company would loose face. That was the problem – loosing face.
I ordered the boss from our electricians to my office and told him to exchange the underground lines, from that point where the lines disappear into the ground, to fix it above ground and make it new all the way to our main breaker room. I asked him to give me a material/item list of what he needed to do that.
I gave me the list about 30 min. later, it was now nearly 2 pm in the afternoon. On that list specifically mentioned: 4 cables @ 30 m, 150 sqmm cable strength. We immediately called the company which can deliver all those materials and got the price – all together including cables, PVC pipes and other material around THB 70,000.00 .
I was just immediately sent some staff to get there and buy all material – when the boss of the electricians approached me and offered to buy all the material, get some more people in and install everything by today – for all together THB 100,000.00 . I was impressed, we negotiated a bit, and made a deal at THB 90,000.00 + THB 5,000.00 bonus if he could really make it the same day.
All electricians then left to buy the material and get more workers in. I got a bit more optimistic that we could fix the problem on that Tuesday.
They came back at 5 pm. And the first thing I realized that they had bought a cable with the strength of 95 sqmm. I nearly got a heart attack. The ripped us off with the materials they had bought. This thinner cable is not even half of the price the 150 sqmm cable costs. Even worse, they bought only 22 m length, instead of the calculated 30 m per cable we needed. The second way of ripping us off – though the 22 m were sufficient, we did not need all the 30 m. But – cheating is cheating, and I was in a bad mood.
I again discussed with the boss, nearly loosing my temper, the Farang way – exactly the way you cannot win anything here in Thailand. He told me the old cable was also only 95 sqmm, that was enough for this building. I argued as before: I had told him very clearly that I wanted the thicker cable, because this building was sucking more electricity than it did when it was constructed, and if we do something new we should think about the future and increase the cable strength.
The electricians played poker, pretending they would load the material to the cars and leave. I played poker too – I knew that they had spent too much money for the material, they would most probably not leave. – After a while one of our staff came with a message from the boss to me (we did not talk to each other any more) that he would do all the work for THB 75,000.00 . I agreed, though it was still a rip-off --- but I had no choice.
The work began – it was 6 pm and already getting dark. After 30 min. of work – THE RAIN STARTED. It rained cats and dogs – until 10 pm. But the guys were working, they did not care, they tried to make it. They fixed the PVC pipes first, installed the connection box (in which the old and the new cable was to be connected), and then worked in the side area to connect the cables to the breaker center.
Around 11 pm they called the Electricity Company to reconnect the power cables outside at the road. They arrived around midnight.
The relationship between the boss of the electricians and me was still cold as ice. He talked to the guys from the Electricity Company, and then send me a message that all of the (4 guys) wanted THB 500,00 to reconnect the power cables. I know that the Electricity Company only charges THB 500,00 for coming here and doing the work. I answered that if they give us an official receipt – I don’t have any problems to pay for their work. But they only offered to give us an official receipt for THB 500,00 … they wanted a kind of bribes.
Background of course was that the boss of our electricians went to those guys and informed them about the Farang owner of this hotel, who urgently need the power back – so just ask for money, HE MUST PAY. Let’s rip-off Farangs wherever we meet them!
Farang did not pay, he was not in the being-ripped-off-and-closing-the-eyes mode any more. He just informed the boss of the electricians that he himself could pay for that if he wanted, if the power not came back this night he would not get his money. Dangerous game, but I had reached the state of being completely pissed off of what those involved Thais were doing to me during that two days, and I DID NOT CARE ANY MORE.
They reconnected the cable, phase by phase. And believe it or not, with doing that they proofed somehow that all the action was not necessary: THEY COULD DO THAT WITHOUT SWITCHING THE POWER OFF at the transformer on the other side of the road (so that the other bars would not have power for some time), THEY USED THE BREAKERS 50 cm above the area where they had CUT our cable. Unbelievable! There was NEVER any reason to cut the cable…they could have used the breakers to temporarily disconnect us!
At 1 am on Wednesday morning the electricity was back. We paid the Electricity Company and our Electricians.
Epilogue
Various light bulbs were broken and had to be exchanged. But that was the smallest problem.
The phases of the 3-phase system had be reconnected differently. When we switched on our water pumps (3 phase pumps) we first not realized that, but then one of the older pumps blew up. The other pump could obviously deal with that problem and readjusted itself. One guest was just taking a shower when this happened, the water pressure down again. He had stayed with us during the crisis, but checked out angrily after this final incident because he had lost faith that we had really fixed the problem. I can understand how he felt.
We took the old cables out of the ground – and as expected we found NOTHING. Not a single sign of burning, and I think, if 200 amp cables are short you will see some damage, burning, melting. Nothing at all. - The boss of the electricians had asked to take the cable out before, but I rejected. I knew, he wanted to do that for two reasons: Firstly he can sell those cables for a good price on the second hand markets, and secondly he wanted avoid that we would find out that the cables were ok, and we did all this – for nothing.
We had nearly a full house (hotel) during that time, and we lost a lot of business. Bar and Restaurant closed for 2 complete nights. And we had to move many guests to other hotels – and we could keep only 9 rooms open for our customers. The total damage of all this was estimated – I don’t really want to think about that.
And all this only for one single reason: The Electricity Company had made a mistake, by cutting our cables, and they wanted to cover it up. Nobody should loose his face.
This (!) – is Thailand.
Giotto
NicFrenchy
08-20-07, 06:53
This (!) – is Thailand. How you managed to stay cool despite all that, I don't know but I applaud the way you handled things.
As you very well said, This is Thailand and Farangs who own businesses or are in Management positions are faced with little annoyances like these regularily.
Fortunately for me, the staff I manage do not give too much hassle, in fact, they are very nice and although not the sharpest tools in the box, they always try and do their best to help. This is what I love about this country!
How you managed to stay cool despite all that, I don't know but I applaud the way you handled things.
As you very well said, This is Thailand and Farangs who own businesses or are in Management positions are faced with little annoyances like these regularily.
...
NicFrenchy,
I don't know either. But somehow I survived, as always.
Little annoyances? That was quite expensive for a "little annoyance" :) !
Giotto
Giotto,
Cutting the power lines does seem a bit extreme. Maybe they cut it purposefully so that you couldn't just toggle the breakers back on when they left. Would it be possible that your electrician and someone at the electric company were working together to make a little extra money?
Giotto,
Cutting the power lines does seem a bit extreme. Maybe they cut it purposefully so that you couldn't just toggle the breakers back on when they left. Would it be possible that your electrician and someone at the electric company were working together to make a little extra money?Fox Two,
Possible, but unlikely - the electric company did not know our electrican, we have several companies which work for us.
I believe cutting the lines was a mistake by somebody from the electric company. Everything which came later was the attempt to rip off a farang and make as much money as possible.
Giotto
Loyalty – undoubtedly a staff quality which is very appreciated by employers everywhere in the world. And of course one of the cornerstones to run a successful business. Does it exist here in the bar business here in Thailand? The story(ies):
It does not make too much sense to discuss the issue of “Business Ethics” with Thai women working in bars. Of course not. They all have their own business ethics, or should we say their own business model, and the easiest and most common is: Make as much money as possible as long as you are young and good looking. Though we sometimes find a special girl, with a higher education level and some life experience, and we start to believe that something like loyalty for the bar and the understanding for its problem could exist for those special girls even those cases usually end up with disappointments. One negative side of this general problem is that one as a bar owner may start this business with some idealistic ideas about fairness, support for the ladies in mental, health and safety issues, financial support in crisis situations (kids, family) etc., but sooner or later you realize that all that does not help the business, cost real money, and you stop caring and expect nothing else than problems from the female bar staff.
The standard case - you immediately learn to accept it as normal if you run a bar - is: Customer comes in, either as hotel guest or Sports Lounge customer, and meets the same lady again and again. First she is bar fined, and then after some days costs saving measures from the developing couple are implemented. That can either mean that the customer want to save money, or the lady comes after hours of concentrated thinking to the result, that she could also be interested in getting the bar fine – for herself alone. A mix of both is possible, too. She then suddenly does not show up for work any more for some days, she either stays away, and nobody knows where she is, or she talks to the Mamasan that she has to go upcountry for family issues for some days.
If this coincides with a disappearing customer – then we know what is really going on in the background. We have then not only lost a customer and his turnover but also a girl knowing our rules and system of the bar … but who cares! The customer does not, why should he care about the bar generating profits? And the girl follows her business model: Better I have the money than anybody else. Life is that easy.
Some cases are more complex:
A long time Livingstone’s customer returns to the Lodge, welcomed as usual – and spends a night of fun in the Sports Lounge. In that night he meets one of our girls working long time at Livingstone’s. They somehow develop very fast a closer relationship – but nobody realizes it. The next day this customer, who had before booked the hotel for 2 weeks, checks out – after one single night. He gives us the reason that he had to go for urgent business somewhere, and he will let us know when he will return.
The lady – working at Livingstone’s for over a year, does not show up for work for the next few days. We – concerned that something had happened, because she always showed up when she worked here – try to get some information about what has happened to her. After a few days the rumours spreads that she stays with that customer in her own apartment. We cannot not believe that, we have only good experiences and positive customer feedbacks from her during all the time she worked here at Livingstone’s. Even here at the forum she was mentioned many times.
After approx. 2 weeks she suddenly comes back to work, as if nothing has happened. Getting dressed with the other girls she is suddenly sitting in the Sports Lounge again. The Mamasan informs us about that, and we ask the Mamasan to talk to that lady. The Mamasan directly confronts the girl with the rumours, and she admits that the rumours are true. She somehow feels that she had done something wrong – but she is by far not aware of our point of view. With her actions she has erased a hotel income for one room for 2 weeks, some turnover for the restaurant and the bar – and we do not even want to discuss the bar fine issue here, because if a customer books a girl for a longer time we usually anyway make a deal with him. All together we are talking real money in this case.
“But the customer was happy! That is good for Livingstone’s, too.” She looks at the Mamasan with innocence in her eyes. Yes, that is good for Livingstone’s, but it is so difficult to pay the salaries with the happiness of our customers… But – why should a bar girl think about this aspect of a bar, somewhere, downstairs in the basement, the money print machine is constantly rotating, can’t you hear it? – Sabai, sabai, everything will be ok :) ! Why is the boss always so serious? – What nobody should forget – we never expected such behaviour from this girl, after she was working here for over a year!
Another story: A customer stays here at the Lodge for some days, and enjoys it. Playing pool every day, buying drinks for the girls, bar-fining a girl some nights. He sometimes goes out, meets other girls, brings them in – normal customer of Livingstone’s He then leaves for another place in Thailand for some days, to return afterwards – and suddenly a closer relationship with one of our girls develops. He bar-fines her every day, and spends more and more time only with her.
He is a long time Thailand visitor, stays around 2 months, and has to leave the country after 30 days to renew his visa. After his return he suddenly does not book a room at Livingstone’s any more, but stays in a smaller guesthouse – more in the lower budget range. Rumors were going around that he had met a girl outside Livingstone’s who had told him about Bangkok, how to avoid spending too much money and being ripped off in places like – Livingstone’s. Now it is basically understandable that travellers watch their budgets, and especially if you spend longer time here in Thailand you might spend more money in the beginning than you have expected – too many beauties here, and that causes a permanent output stream of money. Nothing wrong with staying at a cheaper hotel, if the budget runs low.
But that customer still likes our lady a lot – and contacts her again. He wants her to stay with him in that specific guesthouse. The lady likes him too, but she also wants to do business for the bar. So she insists on bar fines if she goes out to see him. That usually happens now after the bar closes, low bar fines. So far so good, still nothing wrong with all that.
And then – suddenly and unexpectedly – the telephone rings at 3 am at night, and my wife is requested to accept a phone call. 3 am in the night from outside. That breaks rule No. 1 of Livingstone’s – don’t call the boss’ room after 2 am, death penalty on that! There must be moments of privacy, even in the hotel business. But who cares, of course a bar girl does not. She is in trouble – the customer wants to go to an island with her, next morning at 8 am. Can she go?
Wife asks why she calls so late, that lady knew that already longer. But she felt to be caught between a rock and a hard place – she wanted to go, sunshine, beach, a nice customer, that’s a life most of this girls prefer to the boring daily bar environment. But she knew that it was not ok to simply leave, there were this damned rules. But the customer did not want to pay bar fines for all that 14 days.
Wife asked me what to do. I said – do nothing, I would be interested to know what both of them would decide. It was not a standard case, here was some feeling – at least strong sympathy - involved, and it is not my business to interfere. I predicted: They will NOT go next morning at 8 am, before the issue is clarified, for several reasons. She was the girl mentioned before in some reports already, pregnant, trouble with the other girls in the bar. We protected her, we supported her during that time. Then she did not work for some weeks and had no money. Finally no place to stay. We fixed all that, gave her a place to stay at Livingstone’s. But still – she was fighting with herself of leaving all that behind and going with this customer to the island.
Next day both come to talk. We asked ourselves why not the day before, to honestly discuss the issue. My wife was somehow so disappointed from that girl that she wanted to insist on our standard bar fine – but we finally proposed a lump sum, more as a symbol that the rules are followed, and let both of them leave. We did not want any problems, neither with the girl nor with that customer. But overall – the bar again lost a lady for some time, and a considerable amount of money. The customer wanted it all – a cheaper room of a guesthouse but not the low quality of the cheaper girls of the lower Sukhumvit area, he was used to Soi 33 quality. But – why pay for that, if you can get that nearly for free?
How to deal with all that? What’s about the business ethics of a bar owner?
That’s a good question, isn’t it? The bar business itself is morally and ethically questionable, at least as it works here in Thailand. I can understand the ladies and the customers. I can still remember the times when I was a simple customer at Soi 33, making dates with the ladies after the bar closes to avoid the bar fines. I did not care whether that bar made money – why should I? Was it my bar? Did I lose money? No, it was always better to give the money to the girl, who needed it much more than the anyway already rich bar owners, and she will then be more happy, for sure, and that increases the performance level!
I just had an interesting dispute in a different forum, in which I was accused to be a pimp. Reason was our rule to charge bar fines for the ladies when they go out with customers after work. And – to a certain extend I understand that argumentation. As long as a bar charges bar fines for girls going out during the working hours we can argue that she does not work in that time, does not create turnover for the bar – and the customer must pay for that. But after the working hours this argument is unsustainable. These dates after the bar closes can be considered as part of the privacy of the ladies – the employer should not interfere. Now – we are not really interested in the ladies private live after work – but our rules insist on paying the bar fine even then if she dates a customer she met in the bar. If we do not implement that rule most of the girls will make dates for the time after the bar closes – to avoid the bar fine, and make it easier / cheaper for the customer to take her out. Anyway – this procedure is morally questionable.
What surprises me again and again is that even experienced girls get involved in this kind of stories, though they know that most of the times they are the losers – besides the bar. A customer who starts to save money (bar fine) will most likely not give too much money to the girl either. We have many cases during Livingstone’s Sports Lounge is up and running in which the girls return from those customer trips with just a small tip, or even nothing at all!
That reminds me of the best of all those stories:
Our good friend, the customer who stayed here for a while, and decided then to leave and to forget to pay his invoice. All food, drinks, pool, bar fines (for every single night) were on his hotel bill! We paid the provision for the girls already – so in that case we do not only have a loss of income – we really lost money!
He took one of our best girls at the beginning, who came to us after around a week and complaint that she had not received any money from him since she stayed with him. We generally do not get involved in this cases, we always tell the girls that this is their business, they shall talk to a customer first, they shall make sure that the customer pays at latest next morning. But – after getting the information – we arranged a small meeting and warned our girls, if the customer want to go out with you be careful, talk about money, and make sure that you get it. That time we still did not know that all that was a more or less professional set-up from that specific customer.
He then changed the girl, for one night, and the new girl definitely followed our recommendation and insisted on payment next day. And – he did not take her again. Instead of that he opted for the third girl, while the first girl was still waiting for her money.
The third girl now started to dream – he implanted some rosy outlook for her future into her peanut-sized brain. He would buy a bar for her – her own bar, like Livingstone’s. She already started to talk to our girls whether they would like to work there, once she had it. And she told everybody that she had received money from him – every day more and more.
This information also misled us here at Livingstone’s – if that girl had received money that customer would be able to pay for his invoice, and our doubts were fading away – a huge mistake, a very expensive one. After a while we then increased the pressure towards that customer again, to pay for the time he stayed already – and he found reasons again and again to postpone the payment, until I definitely told him to pay until tomorrow noon – and he disappeared, taking the lady (and future owner of a 'virtual' bar) with him.
You think this cannot be topped? It can: This lady still calls here sometimes, and tells everybody how perfect her new husband is taking care of her. The amount she already got from this customer increases and increases! The number is now THB 700,000.00 already, and many of the girls in the bar really believe her! The customer did not pay his invoice up to now, but he gave THB 700,000.00 to that girl? But now it comes – she wanted to come over to pick up her salary for last month…yes, that fits! She understood herself still working for the bar, out with a customer (from which she knew that he did not pay). Hundreds of Thousands of Baht richer already (LOL), breaking the rules of the bar, but in need of money, her monthly salary! --- Most likely both of them live from her savings now, until the huge immense gigantic money transfer from outside Thailand will arrive – and everything will be fine. Why do we put pressure on her husband? Why can we not wait? He will pay – for sure! He is a good man. And - the new bar is waiting already, it just needs to be bought!
---
After running the Sports Lounge for nearly three years now I don’t see any chance to get this problems under control. I can understand all parties. The customers who want to enjoy but also watch their money outflow, and that collides with an idea of loyalty towards that specific bar business. The girls who are working for money but still dream about a future with one single man dream prince, and give it a try again and again. And – some are lucky and get married, and find a good man who is taking care of them. And as long as this happens all other girls will dream of a future like that, and give it a chance, even if all of them have the experienced to only being used by some customers - but if they have to chose between money in their pocket/ an option to secure their future – or loyalty for the business they work for – they will always chose the money and the chance for a future. As for a bar owner I can say, that the best option to deal with this kind of business is to run it without any emotions, don’t care about all that too much, implement strict rules, warn the girls and finally kick them out if they break rules – and expect nothing else than problems from the female bar staff. Forget any form of business ethics.
Let’s come to an end: The low season / high season phenomenon.
The high season is coming up now. Many returning customers visit Thailand again, and they like to meet their part-time GFs from the years before.
During the low season lots of girls want to work in the bar. When the high season comes up many girls ask for leave. “A month or two, can I. Or – better three months…? But afterwards I want to come back working here!” The bar is the main income source of the girls during the low season. They need us then – it is not so easy to find customers. But when the “boyfriend” returns to Thailand he shall not be charged with bar fines, and because he has send money from time to time last year or he was at least a good payer when he visited Thailand the last time he must be taken care of when he returns. Otherwise – may be he stops paying next year, or he does not return any more!
In the high season we usually need the girls in the bar, we really could make money then as well as they could make money. But most of the girls don’t care about the bar then. In the high season nobody needs the bar, there are customers everywhere! And all the old "customer-boyfriends" are coming back, E-Mails and SMS – dates can be arranged! And most of the girls have more than one “customer-boyfriend” coming in during the high season.
The next low season will come. Then – the girls return to the bars. They will say: "Of course I go back to work in 'my' bar: Livingstone’s. They always pay salary on time! A good bar!"
That’s what is called: Bar Girl Loyalty!
Giotto
Yeah, Giotto, amazing Thailand.
You gotta deal with those things.
All I can say is if you don't want to be bitten, you shouldn't swim with the sharks. But its good to let everyone know how things work if you scratch a bit deeper than the surface
Traveler1234
10-03-07, 02:36
Giotto's stories and insights presents an interesting perspective. Let me play devil's advocate for the moment and suggest the following for thought.
G's place is unique because he runs both a hotel and bar (actually more than that for most of us, but more on that on another post:) ) in the same premise and therefore has a unique business model. Because it's a bar and not say a MP, the girls have a certain amount of lattitude in how they 'do business'.
Several potential problems/dilemmas that I have never been able to offer a perfect solution include the barfine at closing time and making a private side deal with one of the bar girls. Any of us know that you can go to any bar in town, buy a couple of drinks, get a phone number and/or make a deal with a girl for when she gets off work, whatever and avoid paying the house their barfine. A one night stand is pretty common, getting her for a longer period sometimes presents a problem, depending on what the policy of her employee - is she fined for not coming to work the next day(s) or what.
As G correctly points out, its problematic if you stay at his lodge and try that with one of his girls. You either move out or pay the barfine(s)....
So, while G's Lodge is and will always remain for many of us home when we're away from home, it ain't a place for 'freebies'.
:)
ArchieLeach
10-03-07, 04:01
I often think what a different place the world would be if everyone owned a business. It's impossible. Most people are truly not capable.
But how different everyone's perspectives are when you are in business and all depends upon you. Even with my own employees, and even those with amazing talent and ability, I am amazed by how they are incapable of thinking things through and seeing them from the business' perspective. I like to play teacher and walk them through the thought process of how their actions affect so many more things and many more people than they realize. Many of them can understand, but are still incapable of thinking this way from now on. And some are just permanently in the "employee" mindset and never will even understand.
But even being a business person does not ensure that you will have the best interests of someone else's business in mind. I have little regard for whether or not a large company makes a profit. I don't wish them losses, but I don't concern myself with their profitability. And some random company that does not concern me will also draw little regard and consideration.
But a small business, run by someone who treats me well as a customer, will find me as an advocate for them far beyond even what they get from their employees. I can sympathize. And I have respect for the respect they show me as a customer. They have earned my loyalty. It doesn't mean I will continue to patronize them if they quit providing good service, and it doesn't mean I will be a sucker and pay whatever they want. But I will support them, and actively encourage others to do so.
Example: There is a man here who owns a small sandwhich shop. He and I have virtually nothing in common. We're different races, ages, and he supports my favorite team's arch enemies (from his hometown). But he makes a great product and always remembers me and treats me well even though we give each other a hard time. I have sent countless numbers of people there over the years. So many that he comments constantly on how many new people have come in and said I recommended the place. And now he treats me even better. Last week I went in and he wasn't there. Some stupid woman was working there alone and she told me he had taken a vacation to go home. She made my food just like I like it and then never charged me. She got busy and forgot. I didn't realize until that night. I got a free meal. Lucky me. Normally that would be the end of it. But I didn't feel right since it was his shop and he was a small business owner, and one that always treated me right. So three days later when I was in the area I went back in and told the man behind the counter (some different man) what happened and gave him the money. He looked at me like I was crazy. He said, "So are you ordering now?". I told him no, and that I was just paying for last time and leaving now. He still thought I was crazy. So did the two people who were with me. But I felt better.
I wouldn't care though for the plight of some unknown bar owner when I was negotiating with a girl. It's my duty to get the best price. And if that means cutting out some guy then I can understand why guys would do that. But I don't think it would be right to cut out a business owner who had treated you well and had given you good service. Then he becomes someone to respect. And you should help him by returning the respect he showed you as a customer.
But the number of people who think that way is limited. And that's disappointing.
I sympathize with you Giotto. And that's one reason I'm staying at your place in about 10 days. You run a business like I do, and I would rather stay in such a place than a nameless, faceless hotel. Sometimes, as a business owner, you want to look around and ask "Am I the only one with eyes and a brain here?".
Yeah, Giotto, amazing Thailand.
You gotta deal with those things.
All I can say is if you don't want to be bitten, you shouldn't swim with the sharks. But its good to let everyone know how things work if you scratch a bit deeper than the surfaceTiger 888,
Thanks, I am going to become the huge white shark now :) ...
Giotto
NicFrenchy
10-03-07, 05:35
Giotto,
Your story is nothing short of Fantastic!
Thank you,
Nic
Giotto's stories and insights presents an interesting perspective. Let me play devil's advocate for the moment and suggest the following for thought.
...
Mr. Marketing Director (or shall I say Devils Advocate),
Of course the transparancy of the connected bar / hotel business can be a problem for some customers. If they don't want to pay for the bar fine for one of our girl but they stay in our hotel - that does not really fit together :) .
But - in those cases there are always two options. The first one is to find the girls in other bars her at Soi 33 or elsewhere. The second is to simply go the honest way and talk to us! If a customer stays longer, and he wants to bar fine a girl every night - let's make a deal, and everybody benefits of that. The girls will most likely agree, too!
I usually like this honest approach! A long staying customer overseeing his budget, seeking a discussion with us how to manage that problem, trying to find the best solution for everybody ... that's it. There is nothing wrong with discussing this issue.
Giotto
PosterLion
10-03-07, 12:38
Hey G,
Great Report Sir. It really got me thinking. I began to compare and contrast the business ethics of your bar in relation to my general experience in Thailand and came to some amazing conclusions. I am going out on the limb of generalities with this post and am well aware that there will be those on this board that disagree with me. That said, I agree to disagree with all opposition until I believe I have been proven incorrect.
I will begin with a premise:
“Thai people do not understand right and wrong because they don’t have the ability nor the inclination to see things as black or white. Thai’s live their lives in a grey area. They are not concerned so much about who does what if it is wrong. Thai’s are first and foremost concerned with who does what if it is good for them.”
This premise is not something I developed so consider this a footnote. I learned this opinion from an interview I saw last night on Thai TV. The opinion came from a very rich Thai man that is believed to be one of the top five wealthiest Thai people in the world. The moment I heard his opinion everything changed for me concerning how I understand Thai culture.
Bar girl loyalty seems to fit the bill. I believe all your bar girls are concerned for you because you do good for them, but as soon as someone else comes along that can give them more good or the dream of more good, you’re second on their list.
Let’s forget about bar girls and look at a HiSo example. The people that voted Thaksin into office were more concerned for him than the other candidates because he gave them money. They are still concerned about him to this day and choose not to see ANY of his alleged wrongdoings. But I’ll bet you three hundred baht that his constituency would desert him altogether if someone else came along and offered them a higher (tangible) good.
Now, before anyone gets confrontational about my premise or my examples, let me stress that my generalities are not meant to make any moral judgements concerning Thai people or Thai culture. In fact, even though unintended, my generalities should provide some clues as to why our westerns morales incorrectly discern the what’s and why’s us western people conclude when analyzing the actions of Thai culture. Our morales are not chiseled from the same stone as the Thais and cause us to draw the wrong conclusions.
Now I am going to present some basic terms that are near and dear to all Thai people. We learn about these Thai words from our travel guides, our English Thai dictionaries, and other books and publications attempting to illustrate Thai culture in our Western minds. The main problem with these books is that the Thai terms are defined and described using the English language. That is why I say western morales are not chiseled from the same stone. We must use our language to understand Thai culture and there are hundreds and thousands of Thai words that would take an entire sentence or more of English to define.
Greeng Jai - The Art of Saving Face
Thai people use Greeng Jai to avoid conflict. I subtitle it as the art of saving face because no one can lose face until a conflict comes along that causes a loss of face during its resolution. You might say that Greeng Jai is also the main cultural phenomenon causing Thai people to live in an eternal state of grey. It is the most important element that keeps my premise from unraveling. Greeng Jai is what allows Thai people to not be so concerned about who does what if it is wrong. If everything is Greeng Jai-ed no wrongs are brought to attention and no faces are lost.
Naam Jai - The Art of Winning Friends and Influencing People
Naam Jai is said to be generosity by my English Thai Dictionary, but I think it is much more than that. I think it is the equivalent to Western Cultures, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Thai people show generosity by doing good things for others. Therefore, it’s not much of a stretch to see how this relates to my premise. Thai people do good things for others because they want the same thing. Giving Naam Jai gains merit and also something else and that something else is oh so very important. Naam Jai is a way to get Saam Nuk Bun Kun.
Saam Nuk Bun Kun - The Art of Paying Your Debts or The Art of Getting Return on Your Investment
Saam Nuk Bun Kun is the obligation all Thai people must shoulder for any Naam Jai they receive. The level of Saam Nuk Bun Kun is generally equivalent to the level of Naam Jai received, which explains why poor Giotto is relegated to number two so often. People must repay the Naam Jai they receive through Saam Nuk Bun Kun in many ways.
Let’s say that khun A has received Naam Jai from Khun B. Khun A might honor this Naam Jai by speaking politely with B, giving B the best seat at the table, being patient with B’s mistakes (also Greeng Jai). Khun A will avoid hurting B’s feeling and avoid contradicting B in any way. As you might have guessed, Saam Nuk Bun Kun is the third and final element necessary to binds my premise.
There are many other ways to honor Naam Jai with Saam Nuk Bun Kun and that is why I subtitled Naam Jai as The Art of Winning Friends and Influencing People. I don’t think you’ll ever see Naam Jai defined that way in an English Language book, but you’ll definitely learn about it that way from talking with Thai people.
I’ll never forget the first time a Thai told me to be careful when accepting Naam Jai from someone else, “You never know what they might want in return.” I think the Western equivalent to this can be found in the Bible, “When eating at the table of a King, be careful when you accept what is offered. You will one day be expected to offer the same thing.” Well . . . I am sure I am paraphrasing that one out of the Bible. I haven’t looked at one for a long time, but I know it’s in there!
Let’s take theses three Thai words and integrate them into the Thaksin example.
Naam Jai - Thaksin gives money to the pheasants
Saam Nuk Bun Kun - The peasants vote for Thaksin
Greeng Jai - The peasants close their eyes to Thaksin’s sins.
All is well and the world moves on.
That’s my two cents!
Poster . . .
Traveler1234
10-03-07, 15:24
Mr. Marketing Director (or shall I say Devils Advocate),
But - in those cases there are always two options. The first one is to find the girls in other bars her at Soi 33 or elsewhere. The second is to simply go the honest way and talk to us! If a customer stays longer, and he wants to bar fine a girl every night - let's make a deal, and everybody benefits of that. The girls will most likely agree, too!
Giotto
My personal opinion (not Devils' Advocate here) is exactly as you write. If you stay at G's Lodge, please abide by the house rules. If they don't agree, they should then go find a TG at any of the other bars in town :)
...
Great Report Sir. It really got me thinking. I began to compare and contrast the business ethics of your bar in relation to my general experience in Thailand and came to some amazing conclusions. I am going out on the limb of generalities with this post and am well aware that there will be those on this board that disagree with me. That said, I agree to disagree with all opposition until I believe I have been proven incorrect.
...
PosterLion,
Interesting follow-up.
I have to admit that Mr. Thaksin never came to Livingstone's up to now, so I am not aware of his business ethics (if he has some). But anyway:
I can agree on the Making Friends behavior - that fits into the general picture of the bar girl behavior. It is not only about making money but also about making friends for - may be - making money in the future! It definitely happens that some girls go out with customers (or even stay with a customer for weeks) without charging anything.
Losing Face is a general phenomenon, and if we project it on the bar business it definitely occurs when a girl went with a customer and something went wrong - e.g. she did not get paid. Many times she will not even tell us because she does not want to lose face.
I disagree completely that idea of paying back debts exists amongst the bar girls. Neither financially nor morally - it depends a bit how long the ladies are in the business, but the longer they are the more this idea disappers from the minds of the girls. They do not even remember if we treated them well, helped them in critical situations, supported their families - all that can be easily forgotten if an opportunity to make money emerges for those girls.
I agree with your report in general, the rules can be applied for the overall Thai society - but not for the small part of the society the normal farang tourist get to know - the bar girl scene.
Giotto
.......................
I disagree completely that idea of paying back debts exists amongst the bar girls. Neither financially nor morally - it depends a bit how long the ladies are in the business, but the longer they are the more this idea disappers from the minds of the girls. They do not even remember if we treated them well, helped them in critical situations, supported their families - all that can be easily forgotten if an opportunity to make money emerges for those girls.
...........................
Giotto, agree with you on this. However, look at it from their side. They are never going to make the kind of money (say you) are making. As it is, most of them are getting by on a day to day basis. And being among the poor makes them dream about getting to be in the rich class.
An analogy would be like for a US college kid aspiring to get to play for an NBA team. There are thousands of these kids but only a paltry few make it.
So when they see a hope that some farang may be a ticket out, they will try to do their best to make him want her. And there goes the bar fine out of the window. It is only when they lose out, they come back to the bar.
The question for a businessman is what would you do different in their case. And remember most of them have hardly any education, used by their boyfriends and left adrift once the baby is born.
Some thoughts to consider.
Duni
...
So when they see a hope that some farang may be a ticket out, they will try to do their best to make him want her. And there goes the bar fine out of the window. It is only when they lose out, they come back to the bar.
...Sir,
Agreed, exactly what I wanted to say. This is one main reason for the non-existance of loyalty.
The second reason is that the more experienced girl don't give a shit at all.
Giotto
a few days ago an old bestard returned to the lodge - after not being here for nearly a year. and one could immediately see the missing practice - his mongering ability got obviously a bit “rusty” over that time. the story:
after weeks of announcements and looking-forward sms to my mobile the bestard arrived at the lodge. and - he brought his father(!). can one believe it? he is somewhere in his 40ies, and his father in the early 70ies. now - both arrived, big hello, checked in - all the girls in the sports lounge excited already! a bestard back at the lodge. as expected it did not take long for him to come down to the sports lounge - ordering a tea (!!!). it was around 11:15 pm. tea!
we chatted a bit, and i saw him turning around towards the door again and again - he was waiting for his father (who needed a bit longer to prepare himself for the bar life). there were still lots of girls in the sports lounge, though some were already bar fined - but there was still a selection.
the father arrived, sat down, ordered a beer - looked around, smiled at a girl, and 3 min. later he was in a deep discussion (for sure about about philosophy, politics and stock market) - with one of our most attractive ladies, having a good time. the bestard still sitting there with his - tea.
his eyes suddenly focused miss j., who was playing pool with another customer. immediate question: is she bar fined already? will that customer take her? --- (how can i know?) --- i asked somebody to find out - just a short chat with miss j., no, not bar fined yet, but the customer had bought many drinks... bestard was sitting, and watching - and drinking tea. i reminded him that there were some other ladies in the bar ... but he ignored my message.
after another 30 min. miss j. left the sports lounge to get dressed - a clear indication that she was bar fined. i saw the disappointment in his face - but what could i do? just minutes later he fell in love a gain - this time with miss n., one of the stunners of the sports lounge, but a very picky one, she does not go with customers very often. and if - only very selected younger well built men in their early 30ies ... i immediately warned the bestard - you are losing time, don't even try it.
he bought miss n. a drink, and miss n. sent a clear message: "but only a drink!". as usual the hunter in the man woke up, and he could not believe that he had no chance. i had come to the point where i considered my consultancy work to be useless - and simply started enjoying the situation.
his father had made his point already - he bar fined his lady and decided to be tired and retire to bed. the bestard then approached miss n. more directly with the clear statement whether she wanted to join him in his room later, which she countered with her remark [something like] “only a drink, nothing more, please”.
the loneliness of a long distance runner. bestard sat in the sports lounge, miss j. was gone, miss n. not really in love – and he had to start over again. his eyes focused another lady, nicely dressed, beautiful smile – a woman from another star. he started talking to her, smiling, nicely chatting, trying to joke a bit, make her feel good. and then the attack – what to do when the bar closes, would she be interested?
seconds later he turned to me, his face as pale as ashes. he had tried to bar fine mrs. giotto … [and that she was only his third choice was another affront, but we don’t want to go into details here.][btw: later she told me that she did not really understand what he wanted, his english was so 'strange' - singlish?]
bestard turned towards me, whilst i was laughing my ass off, nearly falling from the bar stool. he was running out of options at the sports lounge, nearly all girls were bar fined already, and the leftovers were not so much his taste. and – it was late already …
i mentioned: “nana parking lot?” – a big [ugly] smile on my face … bestard was speechless, sipping his tea. he saw himself sleeping alone already, and that after all his effort to get away from home for a few days.
of course i put my fingers in the open wound: “your father is much more professional than you, right?” – icy silence… “there are some late night spots, tunnel, spicy – and … nana parking lot!” (i had to mention it again and again, it was too much fun!). some discussions about options of the road (soi 33) evolved, but the only place which might still be open was renoir, and their girls quality is quite low at the moment.
after some more discussions the bestard made his decision to leave the sports lounge and try his luck elsewhere. the following events are based on the information he gave to me later:
he left livingstone’s, crossed the road – and met the receptionists from renoir. they of course tried to convince him to “come inside, hansum man!” (translation: it's late, go home, but leave your wallet here!) they sent their most beautiful lady to discuss this issue with him – let’s call her “buffalo on heat!” - 150 kg raw thai girls material. he immediately realized that his only chance was – to run…
he ran, crossed the road to the safe side ( = no buffalos), walked towards the 7/11 at sukhumvit – and in front of the novotel lotus he suddenly met a nice looking attractive young lady. after a short discussion he found out – that was miss t., one of our girls from the sports lounge. she was bar fined before, but the customer did not want to use condoms. so she left and was on the way back to the sports lounge to report the incidence (because we then sometimes have customer complaints, unbelievable, but true).
he saw his chance. he did not hesitate. and – finally he managed to succeed!
next – he stormed back to the sports lounge, triumphantly smiling, jumping at me and telling me his story. what mongerer he was, he had not bar fined the buffalo!!! no nana parking lot! --- i was happy for him, finally a good outcome for everybody.
next day i recommended that he takes mongering training lessons from his father. or should livingstone’s open a “rusty bestards training center” ?
is this – thailand ?
What a story. I had to make many many excuses to my partner as I nearly laughed my ass off reading this one. "why are you laughing if you are doing your accounts" I can only hope that at mid 50s I will have more luck then the bestard. I am working on my technique as we speak.
The wine is laying on its side reading for consumption.
This story is not an exception. A lot of other stories could be told. Condos and cars are offered to those girls, who are not easily available. Another girl from Livingstone’s which does not go out with customers, got USD 1,000.00 tip for just talking to a customer one night. I never got USD 1,000.00 tip in my life…damned, what is wrong with me?
P4NP – Paying For Not Playing, that is the real big business for the girls, and for the bars/restaurants either.Evidently there are some cranially challenged farang in LOS.
What is wrong with you? You need bigger tits.
It is so much fun to be a pimp – or may be not? The story [may be wrong, this time it is not really a story, it’s an analysis paired with a bit fiction, to make things clearer …]
Did I ever run a bar in my life before? Or a restaurant? Or even a hotel? --- Of course not. Once I had a serious job :) ! So, how to do it? How to start all that up, and how to make money with it? I got involved in the Livingstone’s Lodge project years ago, a long story, so let’s skip that part. Suddenly I was sitting on this object, so better to do something with it, better somehow make money with it.
In the beginning I had a partner, he developed the African concept. We first built the restaurants and bar on the ground floor. That was in 2004/2005, and the wife of my partner was basically taking care of the bar. Mrs. Giotto was running a restaurant in Thong Lo. We had not more than 10 girls working in there, the hotel was not finished, and we had massive problems to start up the restaurants. The Thai restaurant was that time managed by a Thai friend of mine, and he tried to attract late night customers, eating and drinking there when all the Bangkok bars were closed already. Especially people with smaller budgets. Our African Restaurant (African concept, African dishes) attracted some customers, but obviously the food was not so attractive that the customers returned. And the chefs/cooks changed the recipes again and again, the food tasted differently every day.
We lost money every single day. That concept had no chance. I lived from water and bread :) .
I realized that the success of Livingstone’s Lodge depended on opening the hotel, asap, bringing customers in which stayed in the rooms, and then would also eat in the restaurant and having drinks in the bar. We concentrated all our energy towards the construction of the rooms. And - we changed the African restaurant into a Steak House (with some African dishes left) and integrated the Thai restaurant into our poolside restaurant, same prices everywhere (before the Thai restaurant sold drinks much cheaper than the African restaurant) and same closing times (late night business did not really comply with sleeping guests upstairs).
Finally, in September 2005 we opened the rooms for our guests.
Now – I am very catholic (joking), and I thought about my other businesses, customers would know me, and what the people then would think about me, and my mother, my kids – and of course it was completely impossible to have girls working in the bar. We took a few from the girls which worked here before, and tried to change them to service staff, that was it – our female staff. We opened the hotel, no girls in the bar, and we even charged joiner fees!
We had some complaints (“Why do we have to pay a joiner fee?”), but not many customers. The restaurant was quite ok, the bar empty, and we had a few customers in the hotel. OK, it is never easy to start up a business, and we had to give it some time. And we cancelled the joiner fee immediately. The result was, that the hotel picked up slowly, the restaurant was quite ok – and the bar was empty. And all our customers went out to the bars around here, why should they sit in our bar only with music, pool table and TV screens? Quite understandable, the other bars had everything we had – and they had girls!
I looked at the road, with all the hostess bars in there, and I understood: we needed girls in the bar! So I changed my religion and became protestant – let’s look for girls! But how do we find them? All my ex mia-nois and ex gigs??? --- No, my dick would not survive that (Wife: --> cut-off, sliced, given to the ducks…). Sending some slave traders / human traffickers to Isaan to capture them or buy daughters from their parents? No, of course not. So, how is the easiest way to “make some money out of the misery of the girls” ?
We decided to pay them! We offered a higher salary than other bars in the road (some of the owners hate me now). And we decided to give them a higher share for each lady drink. And they can have staff food here. And we pay taxes for them. And, and, and …
And they came. And with the girls the customer came. And with more customers more girls came. And when we had more girls again more customer came. And so on and so on…We tripled the turnover within 3 months – and we had more and more customers in the bar.
We started with a bar-fine of THB 1,200.00 all-night. No bar-fine when the bar closes. And after a few months we changed this system again – we increased the bar-fine to THB 1,500.00 until 11 pm and THB 1,000.00 after 11 pm. No bar-fine when the bar closes. The reason to increasing the bar fine were simple – we got the better quality girl then. I somehow connect this phenomenon to my memories about studying Marketing, 1st semester, “Snob Effect”: There are definitely groups of girls coming in, intending to apply for a job and asking first(!) how high the bar fine is. If it is lower than THB 1,500.00 (or too low in their POV) the stunners / “highest qualified” will not start working in that bar. They can select their customers, why should they go for a lower bar fine? And what kind of customers would be in the bar if the bar-fine was low?
The bar-fine, from the girls POV, has basically two functions: it pre-selects the customer clientele and either attracts (if low) or keeps out (if high) “Cheap Charlies”. And it generates income for the girls, as they get a share of the bar-fine. After we had learned that – we used the tool and increased the bar-fine to THB 1,500.00 , even THB 2,000.00 for the receptionist (which are usually the most beautiful and best English-speaking girls).
Then there were two reasons of decreasing the bar-fine at 11 pm to THB 1,000.00: firstly a customer, who had already spent some money for drinks should be awarded with a lower bar-fine, if he then wanted to take a girl out, secondly the remaining time to find a girl – and for the girls to find a customer – gets shorter, so the decision making process of a customer shall be supported with a lower bar-fine, and thirdly the girls which cannot find a customer so easily shall also have their chance.
After some months we had really a good number of girls, and the problems began. Some girls were more successful, other not. The latter addressed their wish in a meeting to us to decrease the bar fine to make it easier for them to find customers. They found their strong opposition in the group of girls which insisted on higher bar-fines. I want to clearly point out here, that this is not a classification of better or worse girls, it is simply about how much the customers were attracted to them – how successful they operated with customers. I am quite sure that some of the not so successful or not so beautiful girls might provide a much better experience for customers than those of the other group. But who knows?
When we were approached with the proposal to lower the bar-fine we were at the point to make the decision which way the bar should go. And it was then quite easy for me to make that decision: We will NOT lower the bar-fine, but if necessary we will take HIGHER bar-fines. Clear message to the girls. Some girls left then and work in Nana / Cowboy now. We were going for an upscale hostess bar.
Up to this point all that were – simple business decisions! We learned how to run this business, and how to attract higher quality girls to work and customers to visit our bar. Most likely all newbies of the bar business would have done the same thing. And we still did not charge any bar-fine after the bar closes. That time – I was simply not a pimp :)! LOL. Is it really that easy?
No, it is not. Let’s come to the point – the bar owners perspective of the bar-fine. Firstly the bar-fine keeps the customers and girls inside the bar, it is not the fast and easy decision to take a girl out. That is the reason why many bars increase the bar fines on special holidays – to keep the girls and with them the customers longer inside the bars. Secondly (and mainly) the bar-fine is charged because the girl leaves the bar and cannot make money (= selling drinks) for the bar any more. That also supports the general structure that a bar-fine should be higher early in the nights, and lower later then. Fine – that fits with the perspective of the girls. But – when the bar is closed this reason for a bar-fine is obsolete. No bar open – no drinks to be sold – no bar-fine. I found (and still find) it unethical to take bar-fines for the girls going out with customers when the bar is closed. It is simply not the business of the bar what the girl does in her private time.
And then it happened. We got a group of new girls in (girls always come in groups, but that is something for the next story), and after a while we realized that the turnover (drinks, bar-fines) of the bar dropped sharply. We watched it for a time – first we thought that not so many customers came to the road – but obviously it was a phenomenon only in our bar. We had no idea what happened until one day some girls approached us again …
Those girls informed us that they would quit to work in our bar soon, if we would not stop other girls to meet the customers after work outside somewhere and if we would not bring more customers in. What happened that time was that this group of girls ask the customers NOT to pay bar-fine – better give that money to them (additionally to their service fee). They could meet outside at the 7/11 (corner Sukhumvit / Soi 33) after the bar closes. And – they exchanged cell phone numbers with the customers and ask them not even to come here to the bar before, to avoid problems, just send a SMS, and a date could be arranged.
We checked it out – we placed “James Bond” at the 7/11 after the bar closed, and a friend of mine - who was never in the Sports Lounge before – came in and played the game with one of the girls. Both confirmed that this group of girls made this arrangement. Now – I was a long-time Soi 33 customer before I decided to take over Livingstone’s, and I also tried to skip the bar-fine and meet a girl after work. That time the bars still opened longer, and it was more difficult to make such an arrangement work. But that time and today – the bars closing at 1 am – this is easily possible. Everybody has a mobile phone. And all that it is not an exception – I am quite sure that some girls are still making this arrangements today.
The problem for us that time was that a group of 5 girls did this permanently and systematically, and also encouraged other girls of our bar to do so. The turnover crashed to 1/3 of what it was before… and the bar was nearly empty. But even worse – those girls did not break any rules, so we had no option to stop the actions of the girls!
We discussed with some more experienced girls and the Mamasan what we can do, and finally came up with the proposal to implement a rule that bar fine has also to be paid after the bar closes, if a girl goes out with a customer she had met in our bar (!). Then we should enforce this rule and kick those girls out who broke this rule. We arranged a meeting with all girls, presented this new rule and ask the to vote about it. And the majority of girls voted to implement this rule.
We implemented this rule in the beginning of 2007. And if I look back today – it was the right decision and a very important step forward to increase the quality of the bar. Though I still have my personal problems with this regulation (ethical reasons) – for the business it has had two effects: It removed a lot of “difficult” girls from the Sports Lounge, and it allowed us to implant the idea of developing something like a “corporate identity” in the brains of the girls – and encouraging them to be honest, in all aspects of their working activities. You will tell me now that I am out of my mind – no, I am not, I really mean it.
Many of girls today have understood that we give them an environment to work safely, that Livingstone’s care about them if they have problems, that they always get their salary on time, that they can count on us. They have also understood that we want to count on them – that they don’t cheat customers, take good care of them, entertain them in the bar, that they don’t cheat us, that they make money not only for themselves but also for the bar, and that they try to work as hard as possible for themselves and for us. The idea: If we make money with the bar the girls make money too – and if the girls make money the bar should make money too. The bar provides the environment the girls need to find customers.
On the other side of the coin this rule is somehow unclear, difficult to follow up and creates lots of problems. A regular customer, returning again and again to the bar, buying lots of lady drinks and staying all night long in the bar – shall he finally really pay the bar-fine? Girls meeting customers in the morning, which they have met first here at Livingstone’s, does that customer have to pay bar-fine? It is very difficult to do everything right – the life is not white and not black – it is grey!
Nevertheless, the girls still support this rule! In many cases now we leave it to the girl whether bar-fine after the bar closes is charged or not, and in many cases the girl decides to charge the bar-fine. She is then sure that the customer will also pay for her services afterwards, and she already has made some money with the bar-fine then. Girls want to be safe, and they want to make money.
I am quite sure that this regulation helped us a lot to get there where we are today: Today we really have many exceptional motivated girls working in the Sports Lounge. Livingstone’s is not simply a bar, it is their second home. They care about us, and we care about them.
Does this “bar-fine at closing time” rule make me a pimp? Nonsense, either the overall business makes me that, or nothing. Only people without in-depth knowledge about the business can reduce the discussion to this simplicity, it’s not worth to even discuss it.
Now – suddenly we had good girls, hard working, customers in the bar - everything was perfect! It would be perfect – if there were not YOU – our customers. You are a permanent headache, too. You bastards and bestards!
You come in here, having read about us in the internet or heard about the place from friends. And many of you like the ambience, the music, the girls, the pool table. You have your drinks, you sometimes buy drinks for the girls, you sometimes decide to take a girl out – and you leave with a smile on the face – good, that are the customers I like. I don’t complain about you.
But then there are those customers for who everything is too expensive. Not so much complaints about drinks prices, but the bar-fines, and the price the girls ask for. Some of you then come to me and ask me to talk to the girls about the price – am I a pimp, or what :) ? Is that my business? You know the bar-fines of this area before you came here, you can talk to the girls, and you know that Soi 33 is not Soi Cowboy – so please, take it of leave it! But do not complain about that. Soi Nana / Soi Cowboy offers cheaper prices.
Then there is the (admittedly very small) group of customers who really come back the day after and complain – and want their money back! Girl was not good! Yikes! Please, guys, don’t come to me with this issue. I will only kick your arses! It’s really not my business.
BTW.: we sometimes pay the bar-fine back. Our girls have our 100 % support to leave the customer if he requests service WITHOUT CONDOM! Some customers really do that, and we tell our girls in EACH MEETING: You have our support to leave then, despite the fact that the customer paid bar-fine, come back to the Sports Lounge and report the case, and if the customer then complains we will give him his money back! And this happened already a few times. --- I realize now that I am a real pimp, and that I “make some money out of the misery of the girls”. How bad I am!
OK, we have some problems with this customer groups, but these problems are usually easy to fix. Some more serious problems are caused by the customers who really have money and don’t care about spending it on the girls.
Those customers come in, find the quality of our girls ok or good, find a girl, spend some time with her – and stop the girl working! They are not really interested in that girl, but they don’t want to share it. Most of the time this customers have not only one girl on one bar – and they are talking about the experiences and girls they have in different countries and cities.
Most of our girls still dream about finding their dream prince, and it happens again and again. Girl meets a customer, the chemistry is good, they fall in love, and then of course the girl doesn’t want to work any more, and the customer doesn’t want “his” girl to go out with other men. I can understand that very well, and this is absolutely ok for me. There are two people going for love – nothing wrong with that, nobody should stop them.
It is a different issue if the man is simply financially potent enough to keep a harem of girls worldwide only for himself – for some time. The girls start to dream about a safe future, and will have their horror disappointment experience a few months later. They are only used by the rich – and guys, that is not ok! It is mainly not ok for the girl – you are playing with human feelings here. And it is also not ok for the bar owners – we are trying to build up a good team, to create an environment for entertainment – and you take the best ones out again and again, just to throw them away a few months later. Those girls usually don’t come back to our bar – they have lost face.
I should come to an end, after all of you may now have learned something about the bar business! May be not … but - it is not easy with the girls, and also not easy with you customers! The life is hard anyway, if you run a bar – if pimp or not does not really matter :) !
This is Thailand!
Giotto
Good, entertaining story, G.
Thanks.
So are you a pimp or not? :D
Member #3428
02-07-08, 22:00
Interesting report but way too much info in there to digest all at once.
From my standpoint, in the service industry you are always getting into the lives of employees and customers. If you don't get into the lives of customers and employees then you're not going to be in business very long. And no matter what you do, as employer, you are always ultimately at fault and you only get headaches. Personally I hate to hear my name called because whenever I hear it, it is not for someone to give me something or someone to do something for me, it is always someone wanting something from me. So even though we work in way different industries I actually can understand the frustration and effort you've put into the place.
You can only try to improve every day and you will never solve all issues or problems. When dealing with people, a lot of the issues are not black and white decisions, sometimes rules can be bent a little or ignored, so your never going to find it easy. I say, if what I do was easy then every idiot would be doing it, but since no one else has put me out of business yet then I think I'm doing OK.
I am not sure I agree with everything you wrote as I have my own experiences but we all know I'm not normal ;). I might touch on some of the experiences later, just not sure what all should be public, but all in all I agree that the people working there are happy and do care more then most places. And that's probably a good reason for the relaxing atmosphere. Yes Livingstones won't suit everyone, but if you try to please everyone then you will end up not pleasing anyone.
Of course G... you are one who got into a field that involved women, on top of that they are asian women, and more specifically Thai women. You'd think one lady would give you enough headaches but no..... you have to have 30 or so... So good luck. You dug your own grave on this one.
M P Lurker
02-08-08, 03:27
It is so much fun to be a pimp – or may be not? The story [may be wrong, this time it is not really a story, it’s an analysis paired with a bit fiction, to make things clearer …]
<cut>
It is a different issue if the man is simply financially potent enough to keep a harem of girls worldwide only for himself – for some time. The girls start to dream about a safe future, and will have their horror disappointment experience a few months later. They are only used by the rich – and guys, that is not ok! It is mainly not ok for the girl – you are playing with human feelings here. And it is also not ok for the bar owners – we are trying to build up a good team, to create an environment for entertainment – and you take the best ones out again and again, just to throw them away a few months later. Those girls usually don’t come back to our bar – they have lost face.
Giotto
It amazed me that TT was so passionate on this subject since it all seems very normal for Thailand, and really the system of bar fines clearly has some logic to it.
But logic and emotions don't mix that well.
Its fortunate that I decided right from the start to always make it clear that I have a GF somewhere else, so that nobody gets confused.
How much face is lost when a customer switches to another girl is always a problem? Best to be a "Jao Choo" (butterfly) always.
...
So are you a pimp or not? :DMr. Vice President,
Do I care? You tell me :):):) !
Giotto
NicFrenchy
02-08-08, 06:09
G,
Excellent report, a fun and informative read!
Mr. Vice President,
Do I care? You tell me :):):) !
Giotto
No, you don't care. However, if you are a pimp, you are the only pimp in BKK without a frenulum, so that must be worth something......
...
However, if you are a pimp, you are the only pimp in BKK without a frenulum, so that must be worth something......Mr. Vice President,
Wait, wait, wait - it is still there! And functional again (after 1.5 years now).
Hmmm...does that make me a pimp now :) ?
Giotto
Mr. Vice President,
Wait, wait, wait - it is still there! And functional again (after 1.5 years now).
Hmmm...does that make me a pimp now :) ?
Giotto
Well, Giotto, if the frenulum is working again, (I am surprized, I thought I remember it being on the "specials" board as the soup of the day 18 months ago, but I must be mistaken), then I gather you are back in the sports lounge, throwing a huge plastic sheet over the pool table, and test driving the new talent that comes applying for the job?
Keep up the good work.
;)
...(I am surprized, I thought I remember it being on the "specials" board as the soup of the day 18 months ago, but I must be mistaken), then I gather you are back in the sports lounge, throwing a huge plastic sheet over the pool table, and test driving the new talent that comes applying for the job?
...
Mr. Vice President,
I remember that soup ... but anyway, it grew again, and now things are ok.
Reg. test drives of new talent - that is definitely not my job, please contact Sir Duniawala.
Giotto
...
You can only try to improve every day and you will never solve all issues or problems. When dealing with people, a lot of the issues are not black and white decisions, sometimes rules can be bent a little or ignored, so your never going to find it easy. I say, if what I do was easy then every idiot would be doing it, but since no one else has put me out of business yet then I think I'm doing OK.
...
Tansak KTV,
That is correct - we are permanently reaction on problems and customer feedbacks and try to adjust the rules accordingly, and I am quite sure that this process will never end.
Rules are necessary, especially here in Thailand. The employees are happy to work within clearly defined borders, the biggest management mistake you can make in Thailand is not to set the rules straight. The Thais will then consider the management to be weak - they expect and appreciate leadership.
Giotto
PassinThrough
02-22-08, 20:29
Thanks for the great stories. After spending some time at the Lodge and talking to you quite a bit I can see that you easily could write a story each day. Even while I was sitting chatting with you I heard 3 or 4 great stories from other customers.
I wanted to post about my recent experience and how your story prepared me for it. I am referring to the story of visiting the father of Mrs. G on his Birthday. I have a person that I spent a lot of time with on my recent trip and that I have feelings for. She also has feelings for me and after spending a lot of time together she asked me one night if I would come meet her father and sister in two days. Her father is in Bangkok to see a doctor because of an injury he got in a motorbike accident. Immediately I remembered your story and broke out in a cold sweat. I didn't feel that I could say no, it would really disappoint her, but I was afraid that saying yes would be a commitment that I wasn't ready for. Given those two choices I said "Yes". This made her very happy and made me want to take some Tums.
The night before we went I asked her what she was going to tell her family. Was she going to say I was her "Friend", her "Boyfriend" or something more serious? I think she sensed my nervousness and said she would tell her family that I was her "Friend".
We got a taxi to her sisters. I am lucky in that I have been to other Thai apartments and was not surprised but it could have come as a shock to a westerner that was not prepared. The apartment consists of one small room with a bathroom out back. There is a single mattress in the room and one chair and small desk for my friend’s niece to study. It was clean but very small. We get there and I wai everyone and say hello. No one speaks English but I knew that before I got there. We talk a little through my friend then she and I go to the store to buy some food. We buy a bunch of treats and bring them back. While we were gone her sister cooked some really good squid and prawns over some hot coals in front of the building. We all sat in the room and ate and smiled at each other. I used the hot sauce that she made and ended up drinking a lot of water which I think they found amusing. The niece who could speak a little English was to shy to even look at me and concentrated on her home work.
After a couple hours we said good bye and got a taxi back to the Lodge. I asked her in the taxi what she said and she confessed she told them I was her "Boyfriend". I was glad to meet them and I really enjoyed the experience. I know it made her happy that I went with her and for that I am also glad.
My question, based on your previous report is "Am I engaged?"
All joking aside, and I do hope it is joking, thanks for your report which prepared me in part for the experience.
PIT
Vinny_Viagra
02-23-08, 00:31
I enjoyed your story, but must warn you to keep looking over your shoulder. If she wants to take you to a Wat or if you see a Monk coming your way, run and hide. Its a sure bet she is trying to marry you.
vv
Thanks for the great stories. After spending some time at the Lodge and talking to you quite a bit I can see that you easily could write a story each day. Even while I was sitting chatting with you I heard 3 or 4 great stories from other customers.
I wanted to post about my recent experience and how your story prepared me for it. I am referring to the story of visiting the father of Mrs. G on his Birthday. I have a person that I spent a lot of time with on my recent trip and that I have feeling for. She also has feeling for me and after spending a lot of time together she asked me one night if I would come meet her father and sister in two days. Her father is in Bangkok to see a doctor because of an injury he got in a motorbike accident. Immediately I remembered your story and broke out in a cold sweat. I didn't feel that I could say no, it would really disappoint her, but I was afraid that saying yes would be a commitment that I wasn't ready for. Given those two choices I said "Yes". This made her very happy and made me want to take some Tums.
The night before we went I asked her what she was going to tell her family. Was she going to say I was her "Friend", her "Boyfriend" or something more serious? I think she sensed my nervousness and said she would tell her family that I was her "Friend".
We got a taxi to her sisters. I am lucky in that I have been to other Thai apartments and was not surprised but it could have come as a shock to a westerner that was not prepared. The apartment consists of one small room with a bathroom out back. There is a single mattress in the room and some chair and small desk for my friend’s niece to study. We get there and I wai everyone and say hello. No one speaks English but I knew that before. We talk a little through my friend then she and I go to the store to buy some food. We buy a bunch of treats and bring them back. While we were gone her sister cooked some really good squid and prawns over some hot coals in front of the building. We all sat in the room and ate and smiled at each other. The niece who could speak a little English was to shy to even look at me and concentrated on her home work.
After a couple hours we said good bye and got a taxi back to the Lodge. I asked her in the taxi what she said and she confessed she told them I was her "Boyfriend". I was glad to meet them and I really enjoyed the experience. I know it made her happy that I went with her and for that I am also glad.
My question, based on your previous report is "Am I engaged?"
All joking aside, and I do hope it is joking, thanks for your report which prepared me in part for the experience.
PIT
...
My question, based on your previous report is "Am I engaged?"
...
PassinThrough,
Hmmm, no joking.
You have to keep in mind that a woman like Ms. Y. does not easily bring men home and introduce them to her parents. She will most likely only do this with men she is seriously interested in.
She knows all the story and involved persons, she might not feel engaged yet. But - the parents will think that you are the future husband. And that can one day be a problem for her.
I was very surprised when you told me about that meeting. Quite unusual, this behavior, after such a short time.
Giotto
Sometimes chains of unpleasant events occur in life, and sometimes you are watching the incidents, you are shaking your head, and you are unable to understand why all that has to happen. The story:
The internet is an interesting but dangerous medium, especially if you have good friends out there in the cyber space who are full-heartedly doing everything to support the development of your business. On 02/26/2008, 2:18 am in the morning, I received a PM in which I was reminded by a good friend that he had asked me some days before to delete one of my reports, because he felt attacked by it. He then added:
German:
„Bitte bedenke, daß das Web nicht nur aus dem ISG besteht. Den Rest überlasse ich deiner Phantasie“
English:
„Please bear in mind, that the web is not only made up of / consists of the ISG. I leave it to your fantasy [how to understand this].“
In case that my English translation is faulty – the message in German is clear for a German, and the message was: There are more websites out there, in which somebody can write about your business in Thailand. It does not need too much fantasy to understand the meaning of this message...
The PM ended with “Have fun” :) …
---
I immediately remembered a short discussion I had with this good friend some time ago, about handles on websites, and the difference between his and mine approach of writing in the internet. He was completely protected by his handle, and if he does not meet others nobody will ever be able to find out who he was. I am the owner of Livingstone’s Lodge, and if somebody wants to find out who Giotto is – easy! And of course Livingstone’s Lodge definitely exists here in Thailand, Bangkok, Sukhumvit Soi 33 …
---
On 02/27/2008, 5:23 am the following review about Livingstone’s appeared on the Agoda website. Agoda is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) internet hotel booking website:
http://travel.agoda.com/blogs/reviews/archive/2008/02/27/Livingstones-Lodge_2C00_-Bangkok_2C00_-Thailand_3A00_-Overpriced_2C00_-noisy-and-unfriendly-staff.aspx
The report was written by a StephenMiller, Agoda member since 02/26/2008, 10:00:40 am, last visited on 02/27/2008, 5:33:35 am, a new member for just one day, and he had written only one report up to now – about Livingstone’s. StephenMiller indicated in his report that he stayed here in January 2008, in a Superior room. I think I don’t need to mention that a guest named “Stephen Miller” never stayed here in January…besides the fact that we had in January only very few Agoda bookings, because we were completely booked most of the time with our regular customers, so we informed Agoda that we had no free contingent for that time. We then checked which single traveler from Agoda stayed in a Superior room, and we came down to two individuals, and we know both of them, they would never write such a report.
Here a bit from the text:
Needs Improvement:
Unfriendly staff, neither maids nor (german) management care about complains. The room looked clean at first sight but a closer look revealed the opposite, found pubes below the toilet seat, hair + stains on the sheets and lots of dust on the boards.
…
Now, I believe that some of our Front Desk staff has some problems with smiling at the moment, personal problems, but our maids – they don’t even speak English, they are shy, greeting customers all the time and immediately come down and ask for help if there is any customer request.
That I am bad with customers – yes, but even I listen to customer complains, because that is the key to having success in this business. A customer does not care so much if he has a problem, and we can fix it, but if he has a problem and we ignore it and do nothing the customer will feel bad and not return. Now, it might not be my strongest side to listen to customers, but I am sure: Auntie Guido is taking care of this perfectly, he listens to everything and all complains guests have, and he personally takes care of fixing problems.
That our rooms are dirty – wow … unbelievable to write something like that. It is simply not true. The dust thing is interesting too – I know our maids are not tall, and they have problems to clean the top of the cabinets. So I am personally going to the rooms sometimes, when they are cleaning up, and check whether there is dust on the top of the cabinets. They know this game already, and they smile, and they are proud when I don’t find anything :) .
That review is just - Bullshit!
---
The same report popped up on timberkae.********.com, on [02/27/2008[/b].
http://timberkae.********.com/2008/02/livingstones-lodge-bangkok-thailand.html
One more sentence was added there: “Would have check-out after the first night, but paid in advance.” Nobody pays to us directly in advance, and one young couple complaint to us in January, booked by Agoda, they could not work, the Mac (:)) could not connect to the internet. We offered immediately to look for a different hotel for them, and clarify the issue with Agoda – no problem at all. But then we found a different solution, we gave them my [older] laptop that they could connect and work – and then they even stayed longer than they originally had booked.
---
On 02/27/2008 a similar report in Tripadvisor.com, member name Yani0987, member since … 02/27/2008!. Again a new member:
http://www.tripadvisor.de/ShowUserReviews-g293916-d604359-r13892744-Livingstone_s_Lodge-Bangkok.html
But this time the staff was friendly, thanks God :) !
---
And if you think that things cannot get worse – you are wrong. It always can get worse …
On 02/29/2008, 2:25 pm we received the following E-Mail from Agoda Thailand:
Dear K. *****,
Below, is the feedback from one of our customers about your positioning on a sex forum website. As a courtesy, we often share specific feedback for our hotel partners that comes from visitors to our site. Agoda takes no responsibility for the accuracy of the comments, nor do these comments reflect the position of Agoda. We cannot verify the identity of visitors to our site. Visitor comments are different from actual guests reviews which are presented to customers on our site. Visitor comments are not shared with other customers. Visitor comments are sent to us privately. These comments are shared with hotels as a courtesy. Hotels are also welcome to read the actual guest reviews by visiting our site.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=2537
--- A screen shot from the visitors comment here. ---
Should you need any information, please don't hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,
…
The visitors comment was (screen shot attached “Agoda.jpg”):
Comment:
Dear Sirs, the manager/owner of Livingstones Lodge in Bangkok/Thailand heavily advertises his hotel on a sex forum and supports prostitution in the attached bar.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=754
http://www.agoda.com/asia/thailand/bangkok/livingstones_lodge.html
I strongly advice you to not list this hotel any further. Kind Regards
The link points directly to “Thailand - Giotto’s forum”. Not easy to find this forum for outsiders, btw., even if you google “Livingstone’s Lodge Bangkok” you will not find it on the first pages (I did not check more than 5 pages), that was the reason why I named the forum “Giotto’s Lodge” and not “Livingstone’s Lodge”.
The screenshot showed the timestamp when the E-Mail was sent to Agoda:
Date created: 02/28/2008, 3:29:25 am
---
I remembered the above mentioned PM… Could that really be possible that somebody lowers himself to this level?
I checked the user profile of a good friend:
Last activity: 02/28/2008, 3:36 (attached screen shot “timestamp.jpg”)
---
This is a real story. There are strange people out there in this world. And sometimes they teach you a lesson. I learned something again in the last few days: I learned the deeper meaning of the word “Coincidence”.
This is Thailand!
Giotto
NicFrenchy
03-02-08, 12:50
This is very sad G, and from a Good Friend?
If you want, let me know the Handle and I will get my IT Manager on him. in less than an hour, you will get his IPs, Name, Address and even Phone number! Internet is not a secure/safe as people think it is.
Traveler1234
03-02-08, 14:58
This is serious stuff and goes beyond merely attacking your establishment. I was going to pm you but thought, what the hell. Post this for all to read. My suggestion would be to put this good friend on your ignore list, stop trying to have any rationale dialogue with him and just pray he goes away quietly.
I would suggest everyone else do the same thing. Just ignore him. If not one replies to him, his only resort is to write more and more bullshit. But at some point, even his fingers will tire
On a different matter, but close to all of our hearts, many of us who stay at your place regularly and who are also ISG place a great deal of trust in your discretion. That's called real 'friendship'.
Go to bed and stop worrying about this cockroach ;)
T1234
Well, G, a vast majority of the usual readers / contributors to your thread know exactly who this good friend is. I doubt that any of us who know him through the forum, or worse, have had the misfortune to meet him in person, as I have, are surprised at his behavior.
It is clear, as he languishes in his cold and bleak country, that he envies you to no end.
Since he is not capable of winning a war of words against you in an open forum, he has to lower himself to a level below that of cockroach excrement, and write lies in travel web sites.
I guess we should feel sorry for him. With any luck, he will not be gracing the pages of "Giotto's forum" in the near future.
Stiffoak 571
03-02-08, 20:44
Having been a member of Trip Advisor for years I would always check the history of someone who writes a bad review to see if it is a plant - but normally TA can check via the site/hotel to find out if its real
So anyone looking at my profile on there will see mostly good reviews with one stinker from Tallinn last year when the hotel double booked then me and my mate were sent to an inferior place out of town
hope after my stay I will be able to add another positive to your reputation by adding a good review and stuff the Irish guy who says otherwise (assume it is he?)
The Traveler
03-02-08, 20:46
MODERATOR’S NOTE: The report was deleted, as history has shown, that discussions with this author tend to escalate. Not in this forum any more.
I guess we should feel sorry for him.If it's who I think it is, what a sad sad man, and I do feel sorry for him. Also disappointed.
Now we all feel sorry ... I am sitting here at the swimming pool, it is dark, 25 deg. Celsius, so peaceful...can drink beer again, after the election is over ... what a bad life.
Shall I delete all this shit? That would make sense, wouldn't it? Why not simply delete it and let it go?
Giotto
PS: Somebody sent me a message. What is a "scorned egotist from hell" ?
If it's who I think it is, what a sad sad man, and I do feel sorry for him. Also disappointed.
Piper, you have traveled this great world of ours, you are a wise man, you know exactly who it is.
And, G, why delete this? it is not a bad thing to know that there are serial antagonists around, who hate to the point of trying to destroy.
I have no idea what a "scorned egotist from hell" is, I however do know that someone who writes that shit over the internet, is not well balanced, and needs a spanking from his mummy, and a time out in the corner.
This is very sad G, and from a Good Friend?
If you want, let me know the Handle and I will get my IT Manager on him. in less than an hour, you will get his IPs, Name, Address and even Phone number! Internet is not a secure/safe as people think it is.NicFrenchy,
Not from a Good Friend, from a good friend.
And thank you for the offer, but no, that would not be the right way of dealing with this issue!
The right way is ... aeehhh, what do I know, damned, it is 4:40 am in the morning :) !
Giotto
Member #3428
03-02-08, 23:03
I would like to believe that the report to Agoda did not come from one of the members here.... unfortuantely with the direct reference to the sites and such it is given that one of our very own ISG members is doing this. That is crossing a line. 1Ball and Piper1... you are more senior and you can assume (from past history I guess) who did what but I just don't want to believe that a senior member would pull such a childish act... Talk about tacky, classless, tasteless, imature... I wanna hold out my judgement until someone is man enough to stand up and take credit for this... which I doubt anyone will have the balls to do since they took such a immature action in the first place...
People can disagree and not share the same viewpoint however when you cross the line that this person did and purposely try to cause harm and damage to others can not be undone and honestly... I don't think a person like that should be allowed to continue to be a member here. Unfortunately I doubt that Jackson will police the site (wish he would take a stand in some of these situations, when it goes beyond a "fight club" issue some stand must be taken IMHO) like that and so it must be left to the members to take a stand now and then.
It's one thing to disagree "face to face" or directly and openly on line but when a person has to go behind another's back and hide in the shadows to purposely try to cause harm and damage.... well that just shows how insecure and childish some people are. Petty is a good word, jealousy is a good word, there are many good words to describe someone who would sink to such levels... unfortunately Manly is not one of the words... I just don't want to accept that a person in our group could do such a thing.
Giotto is upfront, he doesn't hide his identity or such... and he tries to help guests and just plan old folks when they visit Thailand... and this is the thanks he gets from some member out there. When members start personally going after another member's family, work, life, etc... outside online disagreements is the day that will cause this site to shut down and stop. No one will be willing to post anything anymore and all because of one little insecure person. It's for this reason that Jackson should consider removing such members for infractions like this.
I just hope that whoever did this will realize that they crossed a line with this act and realize that it was wrong what they did. And no I'm not going to assume who it was.... But whoever it was they can go ahead and attack here.. but when anyone takes it outside this boundry it is wrong. So hopefully this type of behavior will stop and not continue. No good can come from starting things like this.
It's a sad sad day.... I realized the group here (ISG) is infected with a virus (anyone who would act so childish can only be a virus)... I just hope they get treated so it does not spread and ruin this site... Time to be adults and grow up folks... Whoever did this act against Giotto was bush league...
Member #3428
03-02-08, 23:14
On a different matter, but close to all of our hearts.many of us who stay at your place regularly and who are also ISG place a great deal of trust in your discretion. That's called 'friendship'.
Yes.. Giotto could really cause me some harm if he chose too, as well as some members on this site who's shared items, times, and info with. It's that discretion that I think is being torn apart here by one member. It's a shame.
The funny thing is... you've got some members that use info for harmful actions and then you got some members that use it to help others. Giotto has too much info about me but he only uses it to help me.
It's reasons like this that I return to LL and not to other places. In fact.. these attacks only want to make me support LL more and more. And to think... next week I'll most likley be sitting there with a lady and having a drink...
Traveler1234
03-02-08, 23:21
Yes.. Giotto could really cause me some harm if he chose too, as well as some members on this site who's shared items, times, and info with. It's that discretion that I think is being torn apart here by one member. It's a shame.
I have posted, time and time again, that the Lodge is like "home away from home".
For some of us (you and I included) who travel extensively on business, the allure of a 5 star hotel has long been lost. It's nice to be able to stay at a place where you can lay back, not have to hassle with 'things' after a long day at the office and meet some really nice folks.
The occasional cockroach, the lack of slippers/robe and the dungeon are minor distractions ;)
And AGAIN, I suggest all of you put 'the friend' on your IGNORE LIST. We all know who his identity.....
The Traveler
03-02-08, 23:34
MODERATOR’S NOTE: The report was deleted, as history has shown, that discussions with this author tend to escalate. Not in this forum any more.
I guess we should feel sorry for him. With any luck, he will not be gracing the pages of "Giotto's forum" in the near future.
I was wrong. Cockroach excrement rears it's ugly head.
Traveler1234
03-03-08, 00:54
Ignore, ignore, ignore....
MODERATOR’S NOTE: The report was deleted, as history has shown, that discussions with this author tend to escalate. Not in this forum any more.
ROFLMAO.
G has squished moron for breakfast. LOL. I read the report prior to it being deleted.
The rantings of a madman. bladebiblablibadumbladibah.
Enjoy your breakfast, G.
PS. Actually, guys, imagine going through life despised by so many. Sad, very sad. Sad, to the point of pathetic, don't you think?
I remember when Juicespike, Firedick and I met him. we howled at the moon at how pathetic he is. Good looking, but what an asshole. We couldn't get away from him fast enough.
just got a PM from a buddy of mine, describing him as " Insecure Psychotic who probably has Bi Polar. Not a good combo".
PERFECT DESCRIPTION.
PPS. Yes folks, in real life, he is EXACTLY THE SAME AS HE APPEARS IN THIS FORUM. Scary.
...
hope after my stay i will be able to add another positive to your reputation by adding a good review and stuff the irish guy who says otherwise (assume it is he?)stiffoak 571,
positive reputation? you should read the latest reviews :) !!!
no, the irish guy has nothing to do with all this. he was here, we had some beer, we really had a good night - and now he booked a for his next trip. here at livingstone's lodge.
we will be prepared for your visit. we will exchange the furniture (everything will be plastic soon), all local cockroaches are ordered to your room, the water pressure will be reduced to a minimum (why that, let's switch it off), emmy prepares her g-strings, auntie guido his whip...and btw., the name of livingstone's lodge was changed to "peep inn" :):):).
giotto
ps: forgot to mention that we are not cleaning the toilet any more, from now on until you arrive. we call this measure: preparing the "special aromatic ambience" for our guests :)!
...
The occasional cockroach, the lack of slippers/robe and the dungeon are minor distractions ;)
...
Mr. Marketing Director,
Sorry to inform you, that I made a [lonely] decision last friday, left alone from all board members (BESTARDS :) !!! You are never here when I need you!):
We ordered robes and slippers for all DeLuxe rooms and higher room categories.
I am not sure whether the cockroaches will like them ... but we will find out sooner or later :) .
Giotto
Had a serious discussion with my wife this morning.
She asked me: "When did you come to bed last night?"
I answered: "Around 5 am in the morning. Why do you ask?"
May be that question at the end was the wrong answer...she reminded me of my duties as her husband, walked away and stopped talking to me all day.
I have no choice, I cannot join you for all the fun tonight. I have to suffer :(, I don't know in details right now, but I know that she plans horrible things for tonight. She is a young woman, what can I do? Can you feel my pain? :D:D
I promis, tomorrow morning I will join the party here in this thread again, delete some reports, moderate here and there ... and enjoy the morning sunshine+coffee package at the swimming pool!
What a hard life ... [Damned, starting to repeat myself] :) !
Giotto
Had a serious discussion with my wife this morning.
She asked me: "When did you come to bed last night?"
I answered: "Around 5 am in the morning. Why do you ask?"
May be that question at the end was the wrong answer...she reminded me of my duties as her husband, walked away and stopped talking to me all day.
I have no choice, I cannot join you for all the fun tonight. I have to suffer :(, I don't know in details right now, but I know that she plans horrible things for tonight. She is a young woman, what can I do? Can you feel my pain? :D:D
I promis, tomorrow morning I will join the party here in this thread again, delete some reports, moderate here and there ... and enjoy the morning sunshine+coffee package at the swimming pool!
What a hard life ... [Damned, starting to repeat myself] :) !
Giotto
Wow, G, you are really funny today, you must have taken funny pills.
So, let me see if I have this straight.
You are busy tonight in the dungeon with mrs G from 10.30 PM, until 10.32 PM. Then what? Remember, don't overdo it, it is your 70th birthday next year.
:D
Traveler1234
03-03-08, 17:36
Had a serious discussion with my wife this morning.
She is a young woman, what can I do? Can you feel my pain? :D:D
Giotto
I suggest you bring her slippers and robe before her warm bath :)
Some guests are always in a good mood – they are easy, smiling, having fun around the swimming pool. I you then suddenly happen to see them sitting quietly somewhere, with a serious face and a cup of coffee – you know that something is wrong. The story:
I had never seen this guest so serious. Usually we talk only a few minutes every day, but there was always a joke within the communication. I never saw him sitting alone in the restaurant, he had always either service staff around him or some girls from the bar, buying them some drinks, joking, having fun, drinking white wine … and now he sat there, serious face – drinking coffee (!) …
Something was wrong, I watched him for some time and went over to his table, and sat down without asking. We talked a bit about business, hotel occupation, the bars in the road – and I finally asked him why he was so serious. After denying it for a while he suddenly asked me whether I had ever been to a fortune teller here in Thailand.
I immediately had a slight idea what might have happened. I told him that I don’t believe that nonsense, and that I had never been to a fortune teller up to now. But most of the Thais I know are going there on a regular basis, and even many farang guests are using their services – either just for fun or because they really believe in that.
He asked me whether I knew an older Indian fortune teller who obviously works here in this road and walks into bars to “acquire” customers – and of course, I know this guy since years. He even came into my office once (that one with A/C :)) . This one, my guest told me, is an extraordinary person, he really has supernatural abilities, he is a real one – a fortune teller!
I first did not say anything – I had to develop a strategy how to proceed within this discussion to resolve the problem. Inside I was rolling on the floor – this Indian had found his next victim, and if nobody would stop that this would cost our guest a lot of money at the end …
He continued to tell me his story. He had met the Indian guy in the bar next to Livingstone’s. The Fortune Teller had approached him with a bright smile: “You are a lucky man!” – the usual start-up procedure, the guests question “Why?” – “Well, I can see it in your face … “ and so on, but then coming to the point: “But there are some problems, I can see through your frowns … “. Fortune Tellers SOPs.
Basically he did not want the fortune teller’s services, but he asked for the prices. “Well, Jack (that means “Cheap Charlies”) will pay THB 1,000.00 , a regular customer gives me THB 1,500.00 and if you are wealthy I would appreciate THB 2,000.00” – not cheap at all! Can it be worth it? – The Fortune Teller attacked: “Don’t worry, I can prove that this is not a rip off - that I can tell you something about you first – for free!”
He ripped a piece of paper out of his notebook and handed it to our guests together with a pen: “Write down the name of your mother and the name of your wife!”
No money involved up to then, there was nothing to loose. The fortune teller would never be able to guess the names. It was impossible. Was it? --- Of course it was…hmmm…
Our guest decided to give it a try: He wrote: “Mother: Dorothy, Wife: Kathrin (names change by the author)”. He then was ordered to fold the paper 3 times – and to hand it to the Fortune Teller. The Indian did not unfold it – he held it with both hands for about 10 seconds, and then ripped the paper in pieces. He then put all the scrap of paper into the right (not the left, the right :)) hand of our guest, and asked the guest to close his eyes and concentrate on his right hand. “Think only about your right hand, do NOT think about the names, only about your right hand!”
Our guest closed his eyes and thought about his right hand.
Fortune teller: “The name of your mother is Dorothy. The name of your wife is --- Catharina!”
Our guest: Silence, Surprise, Horror – how could the fortune teller know, Kathrin or Catharina was basically the same name, how the hell could he know that??? – And he was caught! He paid, he wanted to know more. The fortune teller had his customer.
They then talked for nearly 45 min., and our guest heard more about his life, his problems, his future – nearly everything was so real, so "true" – fascinating, our guest had never believed that something like fortune telling would really make sense to him – but this Indian guy was different. He was supernatural. He was enlightened, or something like that, he knew – “nearly” everything.
I jumped in when I heard the word “nearly” … “Why are you so serious, did he tell you some bad news about your future?”
Our Guest: “Not really, he was not really predicting bad luck, but he gave me an indication, that something could happen – and that I better do something right now to avoid it!”
Me: “What is it – what he recommends to do?”
Our Guest: “He will think about it, and tomorrow he will tell me!”
I could hardly stay serious. But I had to. So – it was all about the next session, more money, and our poor guest was thinking about what possibly would go wrong in his future.
Me: “I can tell you what to do!”
Our guest: “How can you, you are not a fortune teller!”
Me: “But I know what he will tell you tomorrow – it is not the first time that I hear this story! This man tricked you! ”
Our guest, his body language changed, coming closer to me, hands and arms on the table: “How, he knew the first name of my mother and my wife – there is no way that he can know that. Not even if he checked that out here before, you don’t know that names either!” – He was still on the wrong track.
Me: “It’s much easier. But let’s start with tomorrow…” and I told him that tomorrow this guy will ask for some more money for the second session, and then would tell him to go to Chinatown and buy some caged birds, and let them fly…or alternatively by some living fish and let them swim somewhere in a lake of in a river . “You can check it out, if you want!”
“And the way he gained your trust is a simply magician trick: He already had one piece of paper hidden in one hand when he approached you at your table. In the moment when he started to rip the paper apart he exchanged it and kept your paper in his hand – and when you closed your eyes and thought about your right hand he unfolded your paper and read it, below the table, very fast, you would never realize what he did! –”
I looked into the eyes of our guest, who did not show any reaction – he had his “stone face” on. Very self-controlled.
“Even the wrong pronunciation/slight modification of your wife’s name was on purpose – it gave you the impression that his knowledge came a bit unclear via intuition – from you thinking about your right hand!”
“Don’t worry too much about what he told you – after you started to trust him he had an easy game, talking to you, getting some information from you, and returning that information later in the discussion as something he could not know, mixed with some likely assumptions and good rhetoric skills – fortune tellers know how to talk and make you believe…forget it!” I did not tell him that a standard Thai “fortune teller” charges only THB 200,00 per session (!).
I still saw doubts in the eyes of our guest, but also the first signs of recovery … a bit shame of being so naïve, but more and more disbelieve came up. I told him again that he did not need to worry, this guy was very skilled, and our guest was not the only one who had fallen for his trick. No need to think about all that any longer. – “Let it go!”
After a while I left him and returned to my office at the swimming pool.
It did not last too long when step by step the smile returned into the face of somebody sitting around the pool, and a glass of white wine was ordered – and a bit later he then got a shoulder massage from one of our service staff. - Good! We were back to normal :) …
Amazing Thailand!
Giotto
Indo Phile
03-11-08, 00:01
The trick to knowing the names written on the torn paper is in basic human behaviour. When asked to write something on blank paper people are always writing in the very middle. The paper is folded so that middle of the paper is being held between thumb and finger. When tearing up the paper the bit with writing is safe. Remaining bits are blank and handed back to victim. When the victim closes their eyes to concentrate on the scraps, fortune teller has chance to read the bit of paper that is hidden between fingers.
If Indo Phile do this trick paper is burnt in an ashtray and Indo Philes magic fingers read the smoke. More impressive so reading costs an extra 500 baht :)
Damn, I told my brother-in-law not to go to Soi 33, but did he listen. Noooo. Now I have to find him a new gig. :eek:
Damn, I told my brother-in-law not to go to Soi 33, but did he listen. Noooo. Now I have to find him a new gig. :eek:Sir,
Now I understand - you trained him how to run his business. You are behind all that :) ...
Queston: How much money do you make with this business every month :) ?
Giotto
PosterLion
03-13-08, 14:08
I just asked my wife what she pays her fortune teller on soi 5 and she replied, "99 Baht."
Granted, soi 5 is not soi 33 and asking prices must be upgraded accordingly to let's say, 199 Baht.
I am continually amazed with AMAZING THAILAND! :)
Sir,
......................
Queston: How much money do you make with this business every month :) ?
Giotto
Not enough. If I did, don't you think I would be sitting next to your pool everyday? :)
Terry Terrier
04-16-08, 02:21
He asked me whether I knew an older Indian fortune teller who obviously works here in this road and walks into bars to “acquire” customers – and of course, I know this guy since years. He even came into my office once (that one with A/C :)) . This one, my guest told me, is an extraordinary person, he really has supernatural abilities, he is a real one – a fortune teller!
Quite the scammer! But here's an example of the genuine article:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph-vEN2DlPk&NR=1
You fellas are far too cynical.
I think I wrote about this phenomenon already, some months ago: The 6th of each month is a day full of surprises – the day after we pay salaries. The story:
Today is the 6th of August. And today we got hammered again. After months with only a few problems today it struck us again, it was something like the day of truth. Learn that this is Thailand, and learn how Thailand is.
2 years ago we had problems every 6th of each month, after paying salaries the day before. Usually then the staff had some money available, and they went out in large groups after work and celebrated until ...late, late, late. Next day then some of the employees were very sick and did not show up for work. Others were still so sick that to work was nearly impossible for them. We stopped this then, when we went out with them, controlling the alcohol consumption and sending them home at 4 am or so. And – if somebody did not show up the next day he got a staff warning. 3 warnings - termination of employment.
Ever since this problem is nearly under control, and the 6th is usually the day when staff who wants to leave do not show up any more – without giving us any notice before. So we are suddenly in the position that staff for a specific shift is not there, and that is always a critical situation then. Usually the staff has to give us at least a 15 days notice if they want to stop working here, but for some reasons only very few people have the decency to do so. Most of the staff which wants to leave simply disappear the day after the salaries are paid.
Today we were hit hard. 3 separate stories, beside the fact that at least half of the staff is running around here like dead bodies – they were out again yesterday night and were extremely drunk, as we heard. But let us forget about this minor problem, the other 3 incidents are more important, very sad for some staff and for us, and if somebody wants to learn something about Thais and Thailand – here an example how things work in this country.
Case 1) Staff missing
2 of our staff did not show up for work, and they will not come back. Other staff members were informed, friends of them, so we got the final message at 4 pm when they were expected to start their shifts. The sad thing is that these two persons were specially supported and trained by us, they got chances to change their lives and develop their future here in Livingstone’s.
Both are are a couple, and they met here at Livingstone’s. She worked in the bar, and he behind the bar. They met, they fell in love and they wanted to be together. Now we have a general rule here that couples / relatives cannot work here together, to avoid problems when there are private problems and to avoid exactly the problem we encounter today – that 2 people leave the company same time. But we from the management here are stupid – we always believe that we should make exceptions from rules, and that in this specific case everything will work out fine.
No, of course it will not. We gave the women the chance to work at the front desk. We trained her in English writing, how to use a computer, all the statistics, behaviour etc. etc. . She did not need to work in the bar any more, should have an entry point to a normal life together with her boyfriend.
We knew that they would have a problem with money, because she was working successfully in the bar before, and she earned much more there than she earned as a front desk officer. We increased her salary earlier than usual, and we increased his salary because he stayed with us already some time, and we knew that he urgently needed money to support their life standard.
Just last week I talked to him about marriage and plans, and whether they had plans to move upcountry and start a family. Nothing came up, no hint – no information about a plan to quit the jobs. Only happiness, everything was ok, they were glad to get those chance and they would work in Livingstone’s long time.
Long time was another 8 days. They had made their specific plans already:
Last night they sold all their household and left their apartment. Rumours tell us that her sister has a wealthy Singaporean boy friend, and both of them are moving to Singapore now. This is for sure her idea – as usual, you can take the bar out of the girl, but not the girl out of the bar. Or was it the other way around :) ?
She had to work for the “few baht” she made at the front desk (normal salary) – and in Singapore she can stay for free [really?]. He has to follow her. He is in a weak position anyway, because he cannot afford to give her the life standard she had before. So – how shall all that work out?
My projection: We will never see her again, she knows that she has misused our trust, that she has lost face here – but he will be back within a month or so. It is not so easy to stay longer in Singapore, to find a job there, to get a work permit – he will be back soon. He will apologize on his knees – and I have to make up my mind whether I want him back here at Livingstone’s or not. He was very good in his job, dealing with customer perfectly – but he simply loved the wrong woman.
Case 2) Brother Missing
One of our central staff members, working here since the opening nearly 4 years ago, came early in the day and had a nervous breakdown. She cried her eyes out, and step by step we got the picture what had happened.
She lives with her brother and her kid, and more or less she supported all of them with her work – the brother had no income. But he had obviously borrowed money, and the lenders wanted their money back. So he disappeared, today in the morning, after he asked her last night to give him the money, because the lender was already threatening him with violence. She only has her salary to pay for rent, food, school for the kid – so she declined.
Today in the morning her brother was gone – but the lender was there. They made clear that she had to pay now instead of her brother, if she and her kid want to live safely in the future. It could easily happen something to them, if the money was not paid.
In some countries people would now go to the police to get the things sorted out and being protected, but this does not happen in Thailand. The police is also not really interested in this cases – they cannot really generate their own profit out of that. So she paid, and the salary she got yesterday was gone. And even worse – she needed another THB 10,000.00 to pay to those guys – they were waiting in front of Livingstone’s. And – she also needed some money to pay for food etc., she had nothing any more.
She was crying and crying – we could feel her pain, her fear, her desperation. She finally sank down to her knees begging us to help her – in the name of her child. She completely lost face.
Rule at Livingstone’s is that we don’t borrow money to the staff, except two specific reasons (we even have this rule in writing :) !!!):
- Parents or kids are sick and need medical treatment, then we pay hospital bills (we check it as good as we can, but there is still the option that we are cheated). Not for brothers, sisters, grandfathers, grandmothers and any other relatives...
- And we pay the school fees for kids of our employees (invoice from the school needed). We pay a maximum of THB 10,000.00 and deduct that from the salary in the following six month. This system basically works, we had only 1 runner in the last two years.
The rules did not leave us any option to help in this case. We (the management) cannot break rules. And I also know what will happen – she will get into bigger trouble now, borrow money here and there, have to pay back the money to us (if we borrow it to her), and sooner or later her trouble will cause so much problems that she will simply disappear. There is no way to fix that problem for her – within the rules.
I decided that Livingstone’s will NOT borrow the needed THB 15,000.00 to her.
Of course – I could not live with this decision. She is working here for 4 years, and she helped me starting up this business. I went to an ATM machine, got the money and simply gave it to her – privately. That’s it then, forget the money, hopefully she does not get into more trouble now.
What has all this to do with the payment day yesterday?
Very clear to me – the brother was waiting for this day, he knew that she got money evey 5th of a month. He was waiting, asking for the money, did not get it and disappeared then, knowing that his lenders would then immediately turn to his sister. This is how it is.
Case 3) Money Missing
Another staff member did not show up for work today. But she called, and we are very worried about her.
She went home after receiving her salary last night, she did not go out with the others. She went home, and her husband was already waiting for her. Completely drunk he demanded to give him all money; they fought, and finally she was of course not strong enough to win this physical fight against her husband.
He disappeared with all her money. Up to now he is not back yet.
But - she made something right – she called us! I have very much respect for this woman. We sent one of our staff over to her apartment, somebody who knew her a bit better, to take care of her. We sent this staff member with the message, that she shall return to work tomorrow and talk to us, how she can get through the month without any money.
Tomorrow I have again to think about how I can manage this situation without breaking our own rules. I have no idea how to do that – and I will most likely walk to the ATM machine again.
...
Now you can all ask whether I should believe this stories or not. Even the stories to borrow money, parents sick, money for school - to be honest, I don't know either, I am never sure. I check the plausibility of the stories as good as I can, and then I decide something. I might be right, I might be wrong. I simply try to do the best I can do.
This(!) is Thailand.
Giotto
SexWithSmile
08-06-08, 23:46
Very moving, thanks for sharing this. Human stupidity and nastiness has no border. But sad to see it happens so much inside a family.
Great analysis. And no easy solution, except to act like soulless corporate: work, get paid, f. K off with your problems, those are not mine.
Good luck
... But sad to see it happens so much inside a family.
...
Good luckSexWithSmile,
Thanks.
Family. It is definitely difficult to understand, what is sometimes going on in Thai families, especially if we then hear so many stories from everybody how much they respect their parents, brothers and sisters - how important family seams to be in the Thai society.
The reality is [sometimes] quite different. May be I should write the next story about family incidents I know about. That would be a really long story. I wouldn't even know where to start.
Giotto
Member #3428
08-07-08, 17:51
And no easy solution, except to act like soulless corporate: work, get paid, f. K off with your problems, those are not mine.
But then LL would be same as every other cut and paste hotel operator in BKK. Either it is a home or it is a corporate enterprise. Obviously he tries to make it in between which is an impossible road to operate. Almost as impossible as taking a girl out of the bar. It can be done but not often and probably not for long time or forever.... You just gotta take things one day at a time...
Terry Terrier
08-08-08, 02:22
I think I wrote about this phenomenon already, some months ago: The 6th of each month is a day full of surprises – the day after we pay salaries. The story:
Today is the 6th of August. And today we got hammered again. After months with only a few problems today it struck us again, it was something like the day of truth. Learn that this is Thailand, and learn how Thailand is.
2 years ago we had problems every 6th of each month, after paying salaries the day before. Usually then the staff had some money available, and they went out in large groups after work and celebrated until ...late, late, late. Next day then some of the employees were very sick and did not show up for work. Others were still so sick that to work was nearly impossible for them. We stopped this then, when we went out with them, controlling the alcohol consumption and sending them home at 4 am or so. And – if somebody did not show up the next day he got a staff warning. 3 warnings - termination of employment.
Ever since this problem is nearly under control, and the 6th is usually the day when staff who wants to leave do not show up any more – without giving us any notice before. So we are suddenly in the position that staff for a specific shift is not there, and that is always a critical situation then. Usually the staff has to give us at least a 15 days notice if they want to stop working here, but for some reasons only very few people have the decency to do so. Most of the staff which wants to leave simply disappear the day after the salaries are paid.
Today we were hit hard. 3 separate stories, beside the fact that at least half of the staff is running around here like dead bodies – they were out again yesterday night and were extremely drunk, as we heard. But let us forget about this minor problem, the other 3 incidents are more important, very sad for some staff and for us, and if somebody wants to learn something about Thais and Thailand – here an example how things work in this country.
Case 1) Staff missing
2 of our staff did not show up for work, and they will not come back. Other staff members were informed, friends of them, so we got the final message at 4 pm when they were expected to start their shifts. The sad thing is that these two persons were specially supported and trained by us, they got chances to change their lives and develop their future here in Livingstone’s.
Both are are a couple, and they met here at Livingstone’s. She worked in the bar, and he behind the bar. They met, they fell in love and they wanted to be together. Now we have a general rule here that couples / relatives cannot work here together, to avoid problems when there are private problems and to avoid exactly the problem we encounter today – that 2 people leave the company same time. But we from the management here are stupid – we always believe that we should make exceptions from rules, and that in this specific case everything will work out fine.
No, of course it will not. We gave the women the chance to work at the front desk. We trained her in English writing, how to use a computer, all the statistics, behaviour etc. etc. . She did not need to work in the bar any more, should have an entry point to a normal life together with her boyfriend.
We knew that they would have a problem with money, because she was working successfully in the bar before, and she earned much more there than she earned as a front desk officer. We increased her salary earlier than usual, and we increased his salary because he stayed with us already some time, and we knew that he urgently needed money to support their life standard.
Just last week I talked to him about marriage and plans, and whether they had plans to move upcountry and start a family. Nothing came up, no hint – no information about a plan to quit the jobs. Only happiness, everything was ok, they were glad to get those chance and they would work in Livingstone’s long time.
Long time was another 8 days. They had made their specific plans already:
Last night they sold all their household and left their apartment. Rumours tell us that her sister has a wealthy Singaporean boy friend, and both of them are moving to Singapore now. This is for sure her idea – as usual, you can take the bar out of the girl, but not the girl out of the bar. Or was it the other way around :) ?
She had to work for the “few baht” she made at the front desk (normal salary) – and in Singapore she can stay for free [really?]. He has to follow her. He is in a weak position anyway, because he cannot afford to give her the life standard she had before. So – how shall all that work out?
My projection: We will never see her again, she knows that she has misused our trust, that she has lost face here – but he will be back within a month or so. It is not so easy to stay longer in Singapore, to find a job there, to get a work permit – he will be back soon. He will apologize on his knees – and I have to make up my mind whether I want him back here at Livingstone’s or not. He was very good in his job, dealing with customer perfectly – but he simply loved the wrong woman.
Case 2) Brother Missing
One of our central staff members, working here since the opening nearly 4 years ago, came early in the day and had a nervous breakdown. She cried her eyes out, and step by step we got the picture what had happened.
She lives with her brother and her kid, and more or less she supported all of them with her work – the brother had no income. But he had obviously borrowed money, and the lenders wanted their money back. So he disappeared, today in the morning, after he asked her last night to give him the money, because the lender was already threatening him with violence. She only has her salary to pay for rent, food, school for the kid – so she declined.
Today in the morning her brother was gone – but the lender was there. They made clear that she had to pay now instead of her brother, if she and her kid want to live safely in the future. It could easily happen something to them, if the money was not paid.
In some countries people would now go to the police to get the things sorted out and being protected, but this does not happen in Thailand. The police is also not really interested in this cases – they cannot really generate their own profit out of that. So she paid, and the salary she got yesterday was gone. And even worse – she needed another THB 10,000.00 to pay to those guys – they were waiting in front of Livingstone’s. And – she also needed some money to pay for food etc., she had nothing any more.
She was crying and crying – we could feel her pain, her fear, her desperation. She finally sank down to her knees begging us to help her – in the name of her child. She completely lost face.
Rule at Livingstone’s is that we don’t borrow money to the staff, except two specific reasons (we even have this rule in writing :) !!!):
- Parents or kids are sick and need medical treatment, then we pay hospital bills (we check it as good as we can, but there is still the option that we are cheated). Not for brothers, sisters, grandfathers, grandmothers and any other relatives...
- And we pay the school fees for kids of our employees (invoice from the school needed). We pay a maximum of THB 10,000.00 and deduct that from the salary in the following six month. This system basically works, we had only 1 runner in the last two years.
The rules did not leave us any option to help in this case. We (the management) cannot break rules. And I also know what will happen – she will get into bigger trouble now, borrow money here and there, have to pay back the money to us (if we borrow it to her), and sooner or later her trouble will cause so much problems that she will simply disappear. There is no way to fix that problem for her – within the rules.
I decided that Livingstone’s will NOT borrow the needed THB 15,000.00 to her.
Of course – I could not live with this decision. She is working here for 4 years, and she helped me starting up this business. I went to an ATM machine, got the money and simply gave it to her – privately. That’s it then, forget the money, hopefully she does not get into more trouble now.
What has all this to do with the payment day yesterday?
Very clear to me – the brother was waiting for this day, he knew that she got money evey 5th of a month. He was waiting, asking for the money, did not get it and disappeared then, knowing that his lenders would then immediately turn to his sister. This is how it is.
Case 3) Money Missing
Another staff member did not show up for work today. But she called, and we are very worried about her.
She went home after receiving her salary last night, she did not go out with the others. She went home, and her husband was already waiting for her. Completely drunk he demanded to give him all money; they fought, and finally she was of course not strong enough to win this physical fight against her husband.
He disappeared with all her money. Up to now he is not back yet.
But - she made something right – she called us! I have very much respect for this woman. We sent one of our staff over to her apartment, somebody who knew her a bit better, to take care of her. We sent this staff member with the message, that she shall return to work tomorrow and talk to us, how she can get through the month without any money.
Tomorrow I have again to think about how I can manage this situation without breaking our own rules. I have no idea how to do that – and I will most likely walk to the ATM machine again.
...
Now you can all ask whether I should believe this stories or not. Even the stories to borrow money, parents sick, money for school - to be honest, I don't know either, I am never sure. I check the plausibility of the stories as good as I can, and then I decide something. I might be right, I might be wrong. I simply try to do the best I can do.
This(!) is Thailand.
Giotto
Make this male 'dependant' come in and spend a day doing the grottiest job in the hotel. Funds released in cash immediately upon completion of his work. Nobody loses face :).
...
Obviously he tries to make it in between which is an impossible road to operate.
...Tansak KTV,
"He" - is that me? If yes - what would have been a "possible road to operate" in this case? I am always willing to learn.
Giotto
Member #3428
08-08-08, 11:48
Tansak KTV,
"He" - is that me? If yes - what would have been a "possible road to operate" in this case? I am always willing to learn.
Giotto
Yes of course is it you... and I do not know a possible road as such you will always have such issues. If you want LL to be a home atmosphere (which it is for many) then you will always have issues like this.
And if you can learn anything... share it with us... but not everyone is the same, sometimes people can change and sometimes people get what they deserve (good or bad). We'll see about taking a new road and what happens. And that's not about you...
SexWithSmile
08-08-08, 13:36
But then LL would be same as every other cut and paste hotel operator in BKK. Either it is a home or it is a corporate enterprise. Obviously he tries to make it in between which is an impossible road to operate. Almost as impossible as taking a girl out of the bar. It can be done but not often and probably not for long time or forever.... You just gotta take things one day at a time...Fully agree with your statement: it is a tightrope. But oneself should also ask: "if I am in problems, do I go and beg to others? "; "do I beg to my employer? "; "if I (Giotto in this case) am by myself in problems, will that person (the employee) help me to his/her capacity? "
The gem to find is the person who keeps his/her problems to him/herself, does not ask for anything, even less mention them. And if you find that they are in problems, then you know you can extend your hand, and it will be rewarded by his/her loyalty.
That would be a reeaaalll diamond, but they do exist. Somewhere. And that makes your heart harder when dealing with the others.
A nice African fellow told me that saying:
"Ask, you will be given; knock the door, it will open; slam the door shut, you will be respected".
Fully agree with your statement: it is a tightrope. But oneself should also ask: "if I am in problems, do I go and beg to others? "; "do I beg to my employer? "; "if I (Giotto in this case) am by myself in problems, will that person (the employee) help me to his/her capacity? "
...
SexWithSmile,
Well said! Reg. the lady who works here since 4 years I would immediately answer with "yes"!
She is a diamond.
Giotto
SexWithSmile
08-10-08, 06:21
Mmmhh, interesting moral challenge, I would consider the situation as follows: 1) If the guy comes back, I would be inflexible, for 2 reasons:
- love the wrong woman or not, he has abused our trust;
- an example must be made to the others that they cannot abuse the trust of their employer;
- even if an employee is good, the employer must show that he is ready to make efforts to replace such employee.
2) The woman with the brother: if you trust that she will stay, then lending money is no such issue as her circumstances seem very specific (the betrayal of a brother), and as she is likely to pay back. As you said, there is a good chance that the brother will not come back, or the woman would not accept him in any case?
3) The woman with the husband: this will be a bottomless pit, the bastard will do it again next month if he can get away with it. You are not responsible for the usual "man beats his wife" stuff, it is up to her to make her mind and get rid of the useless drunkard. She should have done it long time ago, as it is surely a repeated incident, maybe to a lesser extent before. As long as you pay or lend the money, the wife will remain with the husband as she is more afraid of him than of losing her salary. She will act only under a desperate circumstance: to leave her flat, bring the kid to her mum, live without money one month.only then will she think: I CANNOT live with this guy anymore (instead of: I do not want live with this guy anymore).
Well, I would hate to insult Dr G. Great human resources capacity. You are the guy who manages a big staff at the end. So please accept the above only as a personal thought, and not as any kind of advice.
Good luck, see you for a beer later.
SWS
Mmmhh, interesting moral challenge, I would consider the situation as follows: 1) If the guy comes back, I would be inflexible, for 2 reasons:
- love the wrong woman or not, he has abused our trust;
- an example must be made to the others that they cannot abuse the trust of their employer;
- even if an employee is good, the employer must show that he is ready to make efforts to replace such employee.
...
SexWithSmile,
In general agree. The small problem here in Thailand is that if you followed those rules you had no staff at all.
2) The woman with the brother: if you trust that she will stay, then lending money is no such issue as her circumstances seem very specific (the betrayal of a brother), and as she is likely to pay back. As you said, there is a good chance that the brother will not come back, or the woman would not accept him in any case?
...
The brother will come back - he is family. She will accept him back, for sure.
3) The woman with the husband: this will be a bottomless pit, the bastard will do it again next month if he can get away with it. You are not responsible for the usual "man beats his wife" stuff, it is up to her to make her mind and get rid of the useless drunkard. She should have done it long time ago, as it is surely a repeated incident, maybe to a lesser extent before. As long as you pay or lend the money, the wife will remain with the husband as she is more afraid of him than of losing her salary. She will act only under a desperate circumstance: to leave her flat, bring the kid to her mum, live without money one month.only then will she think: I CANNOT live with this guy anymore (instead of: I do not want live with this guy anymore).
...Correct, too,
This lady is in deep shit. But - I cannot get involved, it is her private life. Useless drunkards - there are so many of this kind of men in this country ....
Giotto
M P Lurker
08-12-08, 15:01
This(!) is Thailand.
Giotto
Giotto,
Why does all this shit happen in Thailand.
Similar crap or worse in my GF's family. Seems to theaten to end our relationship from time to time.
She is staying at the temple for 3 months at the moment.
You weakness ("jai dee") reminds me of myself.
Bought a motor-bike (and paid a few bills) for a girl recently who is not my GF and I'm not even screwing her (but long time friend).
hey, where is that story about the Dancer?
...
She is staying at the temple for 3 months at the moment.
...
Mick Licker,
3 months at a temple.
Yep, I am not sure that I believe that. Definitely not.
Giotto
M P Lurker
08-13-08, 16:14
Mick Licker,
3 months at a temple.
Yep, I am not sure that I believe that. Definitely not.
Giotto
Giotto,
Surely you know this is common place in Thailand for someone to run away to the temple when serious disasters have befallen. They are paying penance hoping that the punishment for their bad thoughts/deeds or bad luck is finished. "mot wane gam".
Well I will go to temple to check just to be sure, even though I believe her. She has never been caught lying in 4 years which is more than I can say for myself.
I have even sent others (independent) to check out her most improbable stories and they always turned out to be true (unfortunately). The truth is often a bigger disaster than a made up story.
My GF and her family are just disaster prone it seems.
My prev GF was like a dectective so she caught me out several times.
Giotto,
Surely you know this is common place in Thailand for someone to run away to the temple when serious disasters have befallen.
...Mick Licker,
Yep, I know that, 3 days or may be a week is ok ...
May be it's not the right place to discuss this in public here. We can do that when you are here.
Be careful, my friend. Do not trust anybody in this country! DO NOT DO IT! NEVER!
Giotto
M P Lurker
08-14-08, 08:02
Mick Licker,
Yep, I know that, 3 days or may be a week is ok ...
May be it's not the right place to discuss this in public here. We can do that when you are here.
Be careful, my friend. Do not trust anybody in this country! DO NOT DO IT! NEVER!
Giotto
Don't worry. I will take every opportunity to verify that I am not being fooled in any major way.
I am not clear that there is a permanent relationship going here rather than just a casual meeting from time to time.
So I need to find out soon.
I am a pessimist and a skeptic at heart. So I don't expect a rosy outcome.
I'll catch you on Sunday.
SexWithSmile
08-14-08, 11:34
I've seen Giotto dressed as a monk and preparing to visit some temples - since I am hearing that they are full of women who go to temples "to forget", I think I shall emulate this good idea.
Keep smiling,
SWS
I've seen Giotto dressed as a monk and preparing to visit some temples ...SexWithSmile,
That's correct - preparing to stay at Tulip Temple for some days / weeks / months :) ...
Giotto
There are many stories already about the Thai way of dealing with farang businesses – today let’s add another one. A good example about how things work here in Thailand. The story:
As some may know I was in Pattaya for a few days to check out some business opportunities – and it hit me like a stroke when I came back and found the colour of our swimming pool completely changed : from the clearest light blue to thick dirty green. After I recovered from a spontaneous heart attack I tried to find out what had happened. I had only been away for 4 days ...
The only answer I could get was that the Swimming Pool maintenance company had put a specific chemical into the pool, and within a day the pool had turned green. We asked them what chemical that was, and why they did that without informing us before doing so, and what in general causes this colour change – now answers. Something for killing bacteria and algae – but we put those chemicals into the pool all the time, and the colour of the pool was clear since we renovated it last December.
The company tried a lot to fix the problem, but they succeeded only partially. A slight greenish tone was present ever since – and after 3 weeks I had enough. I asked Guido to call the management and make a date to discuss the problem. Surprisingly they showed up two days later – today I know why, they had just sent their yearly invoice, and they knew that we would not pay a single baht before that problem was fixed.
The real story starts now: The day before the meeting with the management the pump of our pool filtering system – broke. I was called, there was water everywhere in the maintenance room, and the pump was short. I asked where the water was coming from – no answer. Clear for me, they had opened the filter, water swapped towards the pump and the electric went ballistic. Clear what followed next – the management tried to argue that the pump was most likely not running well any more since long time, and this pump was the main reason that the pool was green. And exactly that happened.
Of course we did not let them get away with that – they are cleaning the filter twice a week, and they have to notice if suddenly there is no dirt in the filter any more – means, no sufficient water circulation, no cleaning ... . After they realized that we would not accept that as a reason they suddenly changed strategy and admitted that the pool did not look good, and it anyway was their fault, and that they had to do something. Surprise – I agreed ! But – we first had to buy a new pump. They quoted THB 40,000.00 (ONLY) !!! Plus VAT. Installation for free, they want to make up something for us, because the pool looked that bad! – Nice guys ...
What they did not know was that we had already checked out prices for new pumps. The other Swimming Pool Maintenance company down the road had quoted THB 27,000.00 for a top and THB 21,000.00 for an average model. Then we contacted an engineer from a hotel we are working together with – he helps us sometimes when our engineer needs support. He quoted after an hour: THB 9,500.00 for a cheaper Japanese model, THB 15,000.00 for an average quality model, and THB 19,500.00 for top European technology. All prices including everything, VAT, installation. We also called our electric company to check whether the pump can be repaired – and they quoted THB 5,000.00 to repair the pump!
So far so good, I immediately made a decision: We buy the new Japanese pump for THB 9,500.00, it does not make sense to buy anything expensive here in Thailand – it will break anyway. And – we have the pump repaired for THB 5,000.00 to have a spare system.
We called that engineer again to deliver and install the pump --- after 15 min. we got the feedback that the pump was not available – the company cannot deliver. But there were an alternative, another Japanese brand, for THB 15,000.00 .
We order pumps from the same company as he does (he had recommended that company to us before ) – so we called that company and ask how much a pump was, and whether they could install it. They also had a Japanese pump for THB 15,000.00 – but they had nobody any more to install it (hmm, they usually have a lot staff), we should ask that engineer from the other hotel to install the pump. Clear – they had contacted each other already and struck a deal – both would benefit and make money, and nobody would push the other party out of business.
We had to make a fast decision, if the water was not cleaned soon the pool would turn into dark green again. We called the engineer and ordered that pump for THB 15,000.00 including everything - but please, delivery in an original carton with warranty documents and invoice for our company name showing VAT! That was already requested when we initially asked, same procedure as always. That guy knows how we do business.
The next call back to us as expected – he was not sure that the pump would be packed in the original carton and had warranty papers. OK, I understood that too, this was a pump which was broken already somewhere, then repaired and cleaned up, and now sold as new to stupid farang customer. Decision: No original packing, no warranty documents – no deal! I asked him: make a fair quote, for an original packed new pump, an invoice for that including VAT – and charge your own own fee for the installation separately, no problem at all, the guy works for us, he gets paid for that, or course ... no answer! We heard nothing any more. To get paid for two hours installation is simply not attractive, he cannot make serious money with that, but if he sells a repaired old pump as a new one he can make thousands of THB.
We got the next company involved, and did not ask for installation any more. Just the delivery asap. Originally packed. Warranty documents. Tax invoice for the company. They quoted: A top European pump including delivery to Livingstone’s – THB 13,500.00 plus tax. We ordered. Delivery next day, 9 am.
Next day – 9 am, no pump (what the hell did I expect ???) . We called – and were requested to come to their shop to pick the pump up. We had no choice – we had to give it a try. There was a pump, in an original but open carton, it looked new, but there were no warranty documents. And we could get an official tax invoice. But – still no warranty documents ...
We were running out of time, so I gave up. We bought that pump – I don’t know whether it is new or repaired, but we bought it. We called our Pool Maintenance Company and told them that we have a pump now, and we would appreciate them to install it – as they told us before for free as a favour for all the trouble we had ... and surprisingly they came the same day and installed the pump!
Now the pump is up and running, and the pool looks cleaner and clearer every day. Let’s wait what happens next. What needs to be remember is that in all this process nearly all participants had tried to rip us off.
This (!) is Thailand.
Giotto
SexWithSmile
08-18-08, 03:58
Next day – 9 am, no pump (what the hell did I expect ???) . We called – and were requested to come to their shop to pick the pump up. We had no choice – we had to give it a try. There was a pump, in an original but open carton, it looked new, but there were no warranty documents. And we could get an official tax invoice. But – still no warranty documents ...
We were running out of time, so I gave up. We bought that pump – I don’t know whether it is new or repaired, but we bought it. We called our Pool Maintenance Company and told them that we have a pump now, and we would appreciate them to install it – as they told us before for free as a favour for all the trouble we had ... and surprisingly they came the same day and installed the pump!
Now the pump is up and running, and the pool looks cleaner and clearer every day. Let’s wait what happens next. What needs to be remember is that in all this process nearly all participants had tried to rip us off.
This (!) is Thailand.
GiottoI am learning every day ----- you should give Management 101 lessons.
Just wondering, assuming that you were not under emergency pressure: would it be possible for you to import directly a pump from overseas?
Thanks for those interesting stories, and for keeping my pool clean. But when I was there I was the only guy actually using it, therefore to save you time and money, I suggest you make a nice jacuzzi somewhere, and change the rest of the pool to a swamp with frogs :) - SWS
...
Thanks for those interesting stories, and for keeping my pool clean.
...
SexWithSmile,
Good news: Pool colour back to normal. No green any more.
Giotto
Sometimes life is ... there is no word for what I want to say. The story:
On Wednesday we paid the last respect to X. . In a temple in Pattaya. 2 of his ex-wives were there, his mother and his sister had come in from Europe. Most of his ex-colleagues were there, too, even his ex-boss.
Sometimes it is difficult to understand and stand Thai traditions. They opened the coffin before the burning procedure - to allow relatives and friends to take a last look. I saw some of the people living here in Thailand trying to prevent the mother and the sister to go closer and look, but it did not work. Both hadn't seen X. for years, he did not travel to Europe since he moved to Thailand. They wanted to see him one last time.
The mother collapsed next to the coffin. She had seen the 35 kg body - that what was left from what was her son before, the fight against the deadly disease engraved in his face.
---
I had met X. in 2000 in a major IT project in Laem Chabang. He was running the operations, an energetic strong man, who worked his arse off to start the project up. We were sitting in a corner of a warehouse, only some fans available for cooling, and tried to fix the bugs. He was organizing the operational processes, suffered the bugs, did not complain at all, and delivered what had to be delivered. He worked 20 hours a day.
After 2 weeks or so the IT was running smoothly and the operational processes were up and running. We then optimized the application, and after a few more weeks the project was finished and approved by the customer. The IT team left Thailand and returned home. X. stayed and ran the operations. He was undoubtedly the king of that warehouse. No question: his effort and commitment was the key factor for the success of this project.
After I had moved to Thailand I got the message in 2001, that X. was very sick and hospitalized in Sri Racha. Liver failure, was the diagnosis...hmm. I planned to visit him, but never made it, business issues - we were not that close friends. One day I was informed that he was moved to Bangkok Hospital – so I went to visit him. I was completely shocked when I saw him there - he had lost half of his weight, couldn't walk without help, his skin was dry and gray, some leasons on his arms - he looked more dead than alive.
I met one of his colleagues outside of his room, one of the staff which had worked with us in the Laem Chabang project.
She asked: "Do you know already what's wrong with him?"
I answered: "I heard something about liver failure, but I cannot really believe that."
She whispered: "No, he has AIDS!!!" ----
It was not the first AIDS case I had to do with, but it was shocking. A team partner! European! Family father! The first person in my closer environment who was infected with the unspeakable disease!
X. stayed more than 3 month in the hospital, and recovered quite well. When I visited him again he looked much better, had gained weight, walked around, told me about his drug cocktail he had to take every day from now on, and how he was going to deal with the disease from now on. Only family and kids were important, preparations for their future had to be taken, working and making money as much as possible, no smoking and no alcohol, a lot of sleep - and then everything would be fine. Optimism - good!
We talked about where he thought he had got it - and he said that he had always used condoms, when he was actively hunting in Pattaya, Sri Racha or Chonburi. No exception, always condom! --- But sometimes the condoms were broken, of course, shit happens. Bad luck. I asked about his Thai wife ... and he turned away and did not answer.
The rumours were spreading fast - his wife was infected, too. After major confrontations directly after getting the test results of the wife the couple tried to fight through it. The wife was hospitalized for some time, though she did not show any symptoms, and adjusted to her drug cocktail. For some time things seamed to work out well.
In 2003 then the next news - his Thai wife had left. Major fights, completely destroyed equipment, furniture of his apartment, they couldn't deal with the burden of guilt, with the pressure. The marriage was over.
Later that year I met X. again, during a maintenance visit in Laem Chabang. He had lost weight again, was not that energetic, sat most of the time in his office, did not really care about what was going on outside in the operations, and invited me to a beer later. Somewhere in Pattaya, 3rd road, his standard waterhole. They knew him there. The waiters. The girls. We talked. About his kids, about the girls, about the massage parlours in Sri Racha and Chonburi, the cheap places, because he had not that much money. It was already late, and after many beer and long talking then the mental collapse, and the words came out of his mouth flowing like a river, tears ... - he needed to talk. Desperation, self reproaches, why did this happen to me, why did I not use condoms - why, why, why... ---- What could I answer?
I reminded him on his plans, only the family was important, the kids(!!!), no alcohol!!! This new drug cocktails were good, they can change the disease from a deadly to a chronic disease – take the drugs cocktail, every day!!!
The next day I talked to his best friend, who was aware of X.s situation. X. was out in the Pattaya girly jungle every night, drank every night, did not show up for work sometimes ... His friends tried to help him as much as they could help.
The last time I saw X. 2 years ago. He planned to retire, cash in a package from his company, and he indeed did that 6 months later. He started up his own small business. There are opposing information about how it went, some friends told me it was ok, others told me that X. did not really care and lost a lot of money.
In the beginning of this year I met his best friend again, and we talked about X. . The friend prepared me for the worst case - X. had somehow given up, did not take his drug cocktail any more, and was expected not to survive this year. I couldn't really believe it ... I think I simply did not want to believe it.
He was finally hospitalized 3 weeks ago, after he collapsed at home. He obviously suffered different infections, but the killer at the end was pneumonia. The days before last Saturday he gained strength again, the doctors were optimistic. May be it was not too late to again start with a drug cocktail. May be they could get the infections under control, though the immune system was completely down.
Last Saturday his heart failed. Doctors reanimated. Defibrillator. Heart massage. The heart started again, 3 or 4 times, but after a few minutes it failed again. The doctors tried as hard as they could, but X.s heart did not want any more. He died at 6:40 pm.
We burnt his body last Wednesday. He was 55 years old. He leaves 4 ex-wives and 6 children behind.
May he rest in peace.
Giotto
Hello Giotto & Everyone!
I've been in Thiland, Samui for 1 month and I'm finding very interesting reading through your forum. I've already have had some "histories" with bar girls, and it's nice to know about other people experiences, although luckily my experiences had been very soft for my pocket. (Not for my heart, but well, that's life.
Ever since this problem is nearly under control, and the 6th is usually the day when staff who wants to leave do not show up any more – without giving us any notice before. So we are suddenly in the position that staff for a specific shift is not there, and that is always a critical situation then. Usually the staff has to give us at least a 15 days notice if they want to stop working here, but for some reasons only very few people have the decency to do so. Most of the staff which wants to leave simply disappear the day after the salaries are paid.
Maybe you could contemplate the idea of giving an incetive to the workers who tell they are leaving 15 days before they do so.
I know you don't have to, but avoiding the problems and the stress, of staff missing the place of work I think it will be worth for you. Specially for the ones who are going to be more difficult to replace.
Somekind of last final payment at the end of the job. This will also, give you the possibility of negotiating with workers who otherwise would simply disappear but maybe they would stay with little better conditions. Or just stay one more month, or something like that, until you find someone else.
Did I ever run a bar in my life before? Or a restaurant? Or even a hotel?.-- Of course not. Once I had a serious job ! So, how to do it? How to start all that up, and how to make money with it? I got involved in the Livingstone’s Lodge project years ago, a long story, so let’s skip that part. Suddenly I was sitting on this object, so better to do something with it, better somehow make money with it. Very interesting article. Could I ask, what do you think is the necessary investment to open a succesfull upscale bar girl at Bangkok?
Right now I live at Samui and make my income through internet, trading stocks, (good income if I wasn't lazy as hell), and always thought there wasn't really that much opportunities at Thailand, but I hadn't thought in the obvious, the love industry!
But I guess the market will be very saturated.
We implemented this rule in the beginning of 2007. And if I look back today – it was the right decision and a very important step forward to increase the quality of the bar. Though I still have my personal problems with this regulation (ethical reasons) – for the business it has had two effects: It removed a lot of "difficult" girls from the Sports Lounge, and it allowed us to implant the idea of developing something like a "corporate identity" in the brains of the girls – and encouraging them to be honest, in all aspects of their working activities. You will tell me now that I am out of my mind – no, I am not, I really mean it. I think you were right doing this. As long as the girl works at your bar, she is getting her customers thanks to your "structure". As long as the money is correctly shared (The girls get a good piece of the cake.) this follows the same logic as any other business.
Also, I think bars gives confidence in the market. I mostly go with paid girls from bar girls (not freelancers) because of this. You have a solid point of reference in case the girl decides to rip you off. Customers should be glad to pay this "fine" for the security it gives to them.
.----------
It also suprised me a little at the beggining the amount for the barfine, but like any other industry (who is not about basic things like food or housing), you just NEED to offer higher prices to the customers who want to spend that money.
I mean wealthy people don't worry paying much more, as long as they get good and honest service in exchange. So why charge less? It would be dead money otherwise who some else would be taking.
Anyway it is still much cheaper that what you would pay at Europe for a poorer service.
Then there is the (admittedly very small) group of customers who really come back the day after and complain – and want their money back! Girl was not good! Yikes! Please, guys, don’t come to me with this issue. I will only kick your arses! It’s really not my business. I understand that you try to do the best for the girls working with you, in this "delicate" business, but if a girl is getting consistent complains from customers I think you should contemplate firing her.
BTW. : we sometimes pay the bar-fine back. Our girls have our 100 % support to leave the customer if he requests service WITHOUT CONDOM! Some customers really do that, and we tell our girls in EACH MEETING: You have our support to leave then, despite the fact that the customer paid bar-fine, come back to the Sports Lounge and report the case, and if the customer then complains we will give him his money back! And this happened already a few times..-- I realize now that I am a real pimp, and that I "make some money out of the misery of the girls". How bad I am! This is great.
Most of our girls still dream about finding their dream prince, and it happens again and again. Girl meets a customer, the chemistry is good, they fall in love, and then of course the girl doesn’t want to work any more, and the customer doesn’t want "his" girl to go out with other men. I can understand that very well, and this is absolutely ok for me. There are two people going for love – nothing wrong with that, nobody should stop them. This is something that I'm finding amousing here, at least at Samui where I stay. That most of the girls are very amateur and get in love with you more than you do! I expected experienced WG, with whom was going to be tricky to deal emotionally with, but nothing more far from reality.
It is a different issue if the man is simply financially potent enough to keep a harem of girls worldwide only for himself – for some time. The girls start to dream about a safe future, and will have their horror disappointment experience a few months later. They are only used by the rich – and guys, that is not ok! It is mainly not ok for the girl – you are playing with human feelings here. And it is also not ok for the bar owners – we are trying to build up a good team, to create an environment for entertainment – and you take the best ones out again and again, just to throw them away a few months later. Those girls usually don’t come back to our bar – they have lost face. Don't understand why you say they have lost face. They went with a man and discovered he didn't love them nothing extraordinary.
Hi Giotto,
I wrote a short piece today, mainly to satisfy my urge to write from time to time. I am posting it here if I may, I hope you don't mind.
The theme is that all the LL girls are special in my eyes, the customer's eyes. Even though we all know the job we all do and the role we all play.
I thought Mrs G may find it appropriate to share it with my girl and all the LL girls. It's a fictional piece told from the view of a customer, don't mention who the customer is, as it's not important.
fly
disclaimer: It's fictional, ok?
Somewhere in Thailand, December 2008
I put my hands in my pockets, take a deep breath and slowly walk away, my head hung low sadly, staring at the ground as I walk. Thankfully the December night air is cool enough for me to walk home. I slowly walk past all the neon lights and ignore the smiles and the greetings by the girls sitting outside the bars along the way. I do not want to look back.
A few moments ago, I was standing outside my regular haunt where I hung out too many nights a week to rest my tired feet and my tired soul. I was standing there with my favorite girl, not wanting to leave, knowing I would never see her again. I finally squeezed her hand, gently stroked her soft bare arm, leaned over and kissed her lovingly on her cheek, and told her to go back inside.
I so much wish I am in another space in another time, where she is mine and will always be by my side.
I know for the girls, life is hard, it’s all a numbers game, a few drinks, a few dinners, a few games of pool, and see you later, next customer please. And I know for me or any other visitor to this part of the world, it’s also a numbers game, a few drinks, a few dinners, a few games of pool, and see you later, next bar and next girl please. I wonder how many even remember each other’s name or face. Intimacy, attention, love, smiles, sweet talks, they are all bought and sold, no more, no less.
Or are they? Are they really bought and sold with no emotional attachments? Or is it that money just happens to be an incidental part of this equation, for we are fragile creatures who crave intimacy, attention, love, smiles, and sweet talks which weight heavily in our mind and in our heart? At least it is true for me, I think. May be I am just hopelessly sentimental, overly melancholic, and with a restless soul.
Yes, there are thousands of girls working in this hustling and bustling city, and my girl is just another one of those thousands. Yes, I am just another faceless customer who comes and goes. Yet the fact is somehow she crossed my path, and for a fleeting moment, her beautiful smiling face and her sweet laughter captured my attention. My eyes snapped her image clearly, better than the camera of a photographer, storing her image permanently in my mind and in my heart.
I want to tell her that the few short times we spent together made me very happy. I want to tell her I was happy to have her cuddling up to me trying to make conversation, I want to tell her that I was happy she always noticed how I like the same Isan food she likes, although I never eat very much of it.
I want to tell her how happy I am to take her photographs and make her look beautiful. I want to tell her how I enjoy teasing her about bar-fining the many other girls in the bar if she is not nice to me, and I love the way she pretends not to care and always say “Up to you”.
I want to tell her she will always have a place in my heart. I want to tell her that even though I will feel a little sad, every time I think of her I will smile and my heart will be filled with love and warmth.
I can’t give you all my dreams
Nor the life I live.
You and I won’t friendship miss,
That’s all we got to give.
Who will take your dreams away
Takes your soul another day.
What can never be lost is gone,
It’s stolen in a way.
Please, don’t stand too close to me,
Can you hear my heart ?
Take my woe and lean on me
When we’re not apart.
Now our mission is complete
And our friends are hid.
Evil things brought down by the light,
Life goes on until the end.
I play a few of my favorite sad songs. I close my eyes. The sad lyrics and the soft music somehow sooth my soul. Tears swell up in my eyes.
I feel myself floating up above the city, the night is dark and the air is cool. I look down at the millions of lights below me, blinking like the millions of stars in the sky. I feel a hand touching my arm, I look over to see my girl snuggling up close to me. She smiles sweetly at me, I lean over and kiss her gently on her cheek. I am in another space and in another time. I feel happy because I know my girl would always be near to me. She is surely my favorite girl.
--o--
Somewhere in Thailand, December 2008
...
shortened the quote. Giotto
--o--
I guess I am a sentimental old toad but I cannot help but wonder and what she would say, what she would think if she saw this.
Hang in there Flyhere........
ES
I guess I am a sentimental old toad but I cannot help but wonder and what she would say, what she would think if she saw this.
Hang in there Flyhere........
ES
Hey, ES, thanks for noticing.
Good question. Let me see, what would she think?
- There goes my ATM!
- Only if I had tried a bit harder, he could have been my sponsor.
- What a sweet guy, I love him even more.
- I'm going to cry.
- I don't deserve this, he's been so good to me.
- I hope he doesn't come by on Fridays, I have another guy.
- Crazy guy.
- I have no idea he likes me that much
- I have no idea what he's saying.
Must say I have no idea what she would think, I am also of the opinion that Thai people don't think, so it's a moot point.
I still love my favorite girl though.
fly
...
Good question. Let me see, what would she think?
- There goes my ATM!
- Only if I had tried a bit harder, he could have been my sponsor.
- What a sweet guy, I love him even more.
- I'm going to cry.
- I don't deserve this, he's been so good to me.
- I hope he doesn't come by on Fridays, I have another guy.
- Crazy guy.
- I have no idea he likes me that much
- I have no idea what he's saying.
...
Flyhere,
LOL, I think it would be "I have no idea what he's saying".
Nice story, btw., you are a writer! If you want to write more stories I will create separate thread for you - just let me know.
Giotto
...Nice story, btw., you are a writer! If you want to write more stories I will create separate thread for you - just let me know...
Oh oh, everyone dreads the offer of "a separate thread" from Jackson, I hope your offer does not have the same meaning of banishment ;) just kidding.
Thanks anyhow, but no need. I'll ask once I have enough stories to tell.
fly
PS. I do miss my girl though, did I say that already? LOL...
Traveler X
02-23-09, 09:31
Don't understand why you say they have lost face. They went with a man and discovered he didn't love them nothing extraordinary.
That's actually extremely embarassing. They opened up and trusted someone that much, and they find their trust was broken from day one.
ok, first off this is about my medical life. so please take it seriously even though i will try my best to be funny! this is a 5 part blog, you will understand shortly as to why. so sit back, relax and stop eating lol!
i need to give a bit of history on my/this medical condition as well as some climate lessons for the place i live. so ok kuala lumpur is 3 degrees out of the equator, that means it is always hot and humid. the temperature is a steady 93 degrees f and the humidity is either 100% or raining! so that makes the heat index, or how it really feels about 149 degrees f...thats hot! so this makes this white boy sweat like a crack dealer at the yearly police ball. now here in beautiful se asia they have different bugs then we, white people, are used to. our immune system is not setup to deal with these little bugs. this all leads to me getting boils, in difficult locations lol. i will not get into what a boil is but if you want to know more here is a link to wikpedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/boils and a link to perform your own heat index (coz maybe you don't believe me lol): http://ggweather.com/calc.htm now onto the fun stuff!
i have been getting boils now for the last 7 years. my wife has been kind enough to help me 'pop' and drain them. please note that this is not a fun event, but i think she was tired of hearing me wine like a rapped horse over the pain, as they are verrrrrry painful! i have seen western trained doctors since the onset of this and all they seem to be able to do is lance them, which hurts like hell!
all of this (plus the last time she got squirted in the face!) has lead my (soon to be ex) wife to not want to help me 'pop' my boils. so now i have developed another one on my left armpit. she felt very bad about not wanting to help me, so 2 nights ago she goes and gets some 'medicine' from the chinese traditional doctor.
she gets home from the office, calls me to the kitchen and asks me to help cook. as we are cooking, well me mostly as we are having hamburgers, she say "i went to the seng sei and got you something for your boil." then i am like "ok, what is it?" she tells me it a patch, i'm like i'm not trying to quite smoking you know lol. she pulls out this yellow box that has a bunch of chinese writing on it and this toad on the front, pulls out a little package that looks like the box, opens it up and pulls out this 'patch' which has a blob of shit on it, it really looks like shit, or molasses depending on your frame of mind! the blob is sitting on something like wax paper with this clear plastic sheet on top. she tells me "get your lighter take of your shirt and sit down" now i'm like i get taking of my shirt, the sitting down part but wtf do you need my lighter for? so i do as i am told, with a little apprehension! she peels of the clear sheet and puts a flame to the 'shit' for about 5 seconds, then tells me to put up my arm. well i am a little worried about this 'hot shit' that she wants to paste on my armpit, but i comply in remembrance of my mothers warnings about angry asian women and their knives! (remeber we are in the kitchen cooking!)she puts it onto my arm pit, on top of where the boil is, it burns but not to bad. she tells me to go back to cooking and by tomorrow the boil will not hurt and i then can pop it by myself. i am little skeptical, but think ahh hell this wont kill me, well it didn't kill me but came close!
so i am now dicing up onions and garlic to put into the ground beef, and (to put it bluntly) my balls start to ache a bit. i go over to the sink to wash my hands and on the way back to the counter to finish up the meat i double over in pain and start looking around. where is it, there has got to be a truck around here, it will be easy to find, it has my balls attached to it. just out of the blue my balls start to cramp and spasm as if someone had kicked the poor boys! i am breathing like a 450 pond guy at the end of the night at a all you can eat place! my wife looks over at me like, wtf is wrong with this guy. i start to walk in a bow legged waddle, ok just take a minute to picture someone walking bow legged and waddling, over to the kitchen table. at some point in this waddle of pain, the pain got worse, it started to feel like someone had my balls in a vice and was moving it up and down, up and down, up and down (guys out there reading this, try not to puke lol) i couldn't breath, was sweating something fierce! my wife cam over and and asks me, in a weird defensive kinda of voice, what in the hell is wrong. at this point i am out of my mind, scared and fearful. i stand straight up, scaring the shit out of my wife, from my bow of pain. unzip my pants, drop them to the floor, grab my balls and start to look for the demons who must have ahold of em! to my surprise, the boys look fine, so i'm like wtf the fuck is going on! i get some of my sense back and ask my wife "what in the fuck is going on, my balls feel like they are being crushed" and she says "ohhh, you must have alot of toxins in you, the stuff is pulling out your toxin." im thinking to hell with this vodoo shit, this stuff must be full of salt peter or something. but then the pain starts to move, slowly, up! just like i am in some vice and the guys in control are like, "hey bill is that enough on his balls yet?" "ya jim, lets now fuck up the rest of him!". so the pain starts moving up my back, my back only not my front (yet!). i howl out in pain, collapse into the chair. look at my wife and tell her "wake the boy, we are going to the hospital" she didn't move, she pretend not to understand me, mind you i still can not really breath, so she might of only heard grunts and moans, but i am not sure, remember she is soon to be ex! to give her credit she did start to get a concerned look on her face, and then said "stop fucking around, this never happened to my brothers" i am thinking, ohhh great, so its just the white boy going thru hell. the pain has made it up to my upper back, right between the shoulder blades and just as fast as it started it stopped! bang no more pain, bill and jim must have gone for lunch! so i look at my wife after i caught my breath (it has been about 15 mins of hell) and ask her "what in the fuck is this you gave me?" she looks at me deadpan and says "toad puke, like the one you lick to get high." before i can reply the pain came back, this time in my stomach, ohhhh goooooood i am going to die, i now know what childbirth feels like! i fall out of my chair, hit the ground moan and grunt for the next 10 mins.(remeber my pants are still around my ankles) to give my wife credit, she didn't laugh, i would of if was not me, i looked look some kind fish out of water flopping around. as the pain started to subside i started laughing and chuckling...now at this point my wife looks really scared. i look at her and say "don't worry the pains over, and i am high as a fucking kite now. this is some greeeat shit man!" i got so fucking high that i saw black and white streamers when i closed my eyes! ok, so this basically ends pt i...i do not think the "medicine" made me high, i think it was the idea that i was going to live!
ok, now this shit is a 5 part process, you gotta take 5 'patches' over 5 days, why i don't know. so yesterday i decide its time to change my meds. i try to pull of the patch and find out that the mother fucker is glued on, did i mention that it is attached to my armpit. so i am kinda like jim from american pie 2, you know had his hand glued to his cock, but instead i have toad puke glued to my pit. so i get into the shower and try to figure out how to get this off without removing the hair. but alas, im fucked! i end up shaving off my arm pit hair. then i start to pull...ok for everyone out there, if something is glued to your hair, shaving does not remove the glued on hair! so i end up havening to pull it off. the pain was not as bad as the night before, but it was bad.
now i am out of the shower looking at my armpit, to add insult to injury, i have shaved my armpit, then still had to pullout the problem hair. ok, so here i am, no hair, heated up toad puke in my hand....i work up the courage and bang on it goes. i put my shirt on,sit down and wait for the devils rollercoaster. 5mins, 10mins, 20mins...belchhhhhhhh, just like barney from the simpsons, and oh my god it tastes like rotten eggs!!!! ahhh fuck, this just isn't right. no pain, thank god, but i am now having barney like belches every few mins that taste like rotten eggs! so to make this story a little shorter, this lasted all night, nothing would make it go away. i couldn't sleep, and at about 3:30 am i blow up like a hot air balloon!!! i finally fall asleep about 5 am....i am awoken by this boooom, it sounds like a plane crashing....but then another one comes....boooom..ummm no thats not right....riiiiiipppp.....ok thats more like it. no plane, no trains, no automobile...it was me. i am farting like there is no tomorrow, each fart is like 15-20 secs long.....with a huge volume of air! you could fit all of last years farts into just one of these. that started at 6 am, it is now 1 pm and i am still going!!! ok, i will be taking the third one in a few hours and post about its effect on poor old me! i really hope this is worth it....
jeremy
Member #3428
03-02-09, 11:09
OK, first off this is about my medical life. So please take it seriously even though I will try my best to be funny! This is a 5 part Blog, you will understand shortly as to why. So sit back, relax and stop eating LOL!
Jeremy
You're getting hosed.... I'm 4 degrees north of the equator in an equitorial rain forest, boils happen to everyone out here, and we have a local medicine that is painless and will make it oooze out itself in no time....
Assuming you are already doing it but antibacterial soap and phisoderm while using a loofha brush helps a lot but if you are on any anti immune med for other reasons then you're kind of screwed either way.
I'm on my way to BKK in a few weeks if you'll be around I'll bring some.
And for those of you lucky bastards that have never had a boil... hope to god you don't get them, they can come up everywhere on your body and hurt like a ***** and can take up to 21 days to heal....
You're getting hosed.... I'm 4 degrees north of the equator in an equitorial rain forest, boils happen to everyone out here, and we have a local medicine that is painless and will make it oooze out itself in no time....
Assuming you are already doing it but antibacterial soap and phisoderm while using a loofha brush helps a lot but if you are on any anti immune med for other reasons then you're kind of screwed either way.
I'm on my way to BKK in a few weeks if you'll be around I'll bring some.
And for those of you lucky bastards that have never had a boil... hope to god you don't get them, they can come up everywhere on your body and hurt like a ***** and can take up to 21 days to heal....
Well thats what this stuff is supposed to do! thats why my wife said her brothers never had pain, lol. I think it is just me. AND yes I use detol, llifeboy and so on with a scrub brush. But this big old bear is normally from the 45th parallel! Never had them before I moved to Asia, even when I was stationed in PI and Thailand during my navy days I didn't get them. I just wish there was some kind of preemptive meds to take.
Thanks for the help!
Slylock
Member #3428
03-02-09, 11:22
I just wish there was some kind of preemptive meds to take.
Thanks for the help!
Slylock
For chronic cases there is, you can run an alternating course of antibiotics but you have to watch your build up of resistance and I don't know your prior medical history or fitness range. If you are a big old bear a change of dietary habits could also help. For example boiled bananas instead of rice etc... There's lots of things you can do as preventive to reduce the severity and the number of outbreaks.
If you didn't get them before then I'd say there was a change in your physical condition, diet, and general location that is causing the outbreaks. They are also highly contagious so someone near you, (doorman, someone one in building, etc...) could be contagious and spreading it to you often.
But it's a real bastard ain't it...
OK, first off this is about my medical life. So please take it seriously even though I will try my best to be funny! This is a 5 part Blog, you will understand shortly as to why. So sit back, relax and stop eating LOL!
...
So I am now dicing up onions and garlic to put into the ground beef, and (to put it bluntly) my balls start to ache a bit. I go over to the sink to wash my hands and on the way back to the counter to finish up the meat I double over in pain and start looking around. Where is it, there has got to be a truck around here, it will be easy to find, it has my BALLS attached to it. Just out of the blue my balls start to cramp and spasm as if someone had kicked the poor boys! I am breathing like a 450 pond guy at the end of the night at a all you can eat place! My wife looks over at me like, WTF is wrong with this guy. I start to walk in a bow legged waddle, OK just take a minute to picture someone walking bow legged and WADDLING, over to the kitchen table. At some point in this waddle of pain, the pain got worse, it started to feel like someone had my balls in a vice and was moving it up and down, up and down, up and down (guys out there reading this, try not to puke lol) I couldn't breath, was sweating something fierce! my wife cam over and and asks me, in a weird defensive kinda of voice, what in the hell is wrong. At this point I am out of my mind, scared and fearful. I stand straight up, scaring the shit out of my wife, from my bow of pain. Unzip my pants, drop them to the floor, grab my balls and start to look for the demons who must have ahold of em! To my surprise, the boys look fine, so I'm like wtf the fuck is going on! I get some of my sense back and ask my wife "What in the fuck is going on, my balls feel like they are being crushed" and she says "Ohhh, you must have alot of toxins in you, the stuff is pulling out your toxin."
...
Slylock,
Thanks for your story! Nice one! I really enjoyed it! Suffer more, please, write more stories :) !
Somehow I was all the time waiting for a different outcome. I thought this was the Malaysian version of the "cut-it-off-and-give-it-to-the ducks" story...
ARE YOU SURE YOU BALLS WILL RECOVER ???
Giotto
PosterLion
03-06-09, 04:39
This is a very old story from back in 2005. Although it is an old story, it is a true story. So I hope you all will forgive me for contributing stale material. If it helps to justify my cause, and even if it doesn't help, this one is near and dear to my heart:
I COULD BE PLAYING RUMMY BUT I’D RATHER BE PENSIVELY REFLECTIVE
I wrote the title to this post after catching up with my literary pursuits via reading the WSG board. There was not much thought involved with writing it because it is a reflection (possibly a pensive one) of the reality of this night.
Two ladies are playing gin rummy on my bed while I hang out with you guys and my computer, much like C-B does in CM except My laptop is not positioned upon someone’s ass. Hey man, I love my laptop and I don’t want it getting too hot on top of some chick’s hot ass. Laptops need love and attention and good ventilation.
I’m not having a twosome tonight (thumbs up Duniawala). A friend of my new girlfriend dropped into Bangkok tonight to pick up some money that her European boyfriend wired to her. She claims to be living on the straight and narrow in Phuket while taking care to pinch every penny her “Love” sends her. She went so far as to claim that she spends a mere 4,000 Baht a month. I gave her a straight-faced-smile as she told me this while secretly rolling my eyes in the bowels of my imagination. Yeah right.
My girlfriend’s friend is a classic example of the Bar Girls you read about in books like “Private Dancer.” I knew she was the type of person that can’t be trusted the moment I met her. My girlfriend calls her a snake and also doesn’t trust her. I’ve often wondered why she keeps snakes for friends, but I figured it out after a while.
Bar Girls are not necessarily friends with everyone that appears to be their friend. Many times the relationship is formed because one girl has a client that likes to do twosomes or threesomes or some other specialty such as anal. As in any profession certain people possess certain skills or specialties. I’ve had similar friends in some of my former professions and I kept the relationship because of what they could do for me and they kept relations with me for the same reason.
The girl (snake) in question has so many specialties you can almost call her a general practitioner. She will fuck any man as she is without any biases, racial or otherwise. Wait! She does have one bias and it is “No money No Honey.” She does anal. In fact, she practices all forms of what we like to call perversion. She is also a natural born liar and possesses no scruples whatsoever.
I know all this because I fucked her on one occasion before hooking up with my girlfriend who is also aware of the incident. She didn’t like it when she found out but declared no harm no foul since we were not together at the time. It still causes friction between us because my girlfriend had a crush on me that I was unaware of at the time. The snake was aware of it though and that is one reason out of many my girlfriend calls her a snake. Needless to say, I don’t feel very comfortable when these two get together. Thankfully it is not often, especially now that the snake is shagging guys in Phuket while waiting for her boyfriend to return to Bangkok next month.
There is a feature of Thai culture that is known in the West as gaining face and it is for that very reason my girlfriend invited the snake to our room. I don’t think that gaining face is something unique to the Thai tradition as I’ve seen people do things for people they don’t like for the same reason where I come from. In the west we call it sucking up and it is generally detested when people talk about it. I think it is probably not liked much by the Thai people as well but it is such a common practice that nobody is publically embarrassed by kissing someone’s ass to gain favor.
My girlfriend keeps in touch with her old friends/associates because I did not become her boyfriend to “save” her from her profession. We had a talk about this before she moved in with me. During that talk she told me I was required to pay the rent and buy the provisions and that I must allow her to go with customers if she felt it necessary and I agreed to those terms. She has gone with two customers in ten weeks and I don’t mind such infrequent excursions.
She is a prostitute but I don’t feel sorry for her and she doesn’t feel sorry for herself either. One day we were drinking a beer somewhere on Sukhumvit just before sunset and all the people with normal jobs were queuing at the train station or the food stalls and she told me that she felt lucky to be a prostitute. She explained that she knew she could not work in an office because she had no training for that kind of work nor the personality for it.
“I can’t do a normal job because all I know is sex. I am lucky I know sex because I never think serious or worry about tomorrow. I can find customer quick quick everyday. Men from everywhere come to Thailand for boom boom so even though I lazy I fuck around the world. I thank my Buddha for that. That’s why I not understand Thaksin. Why he not like me? I like to make man happy and man come back Thailand many time for spend money. I know I good for Thailand, you believe me?”
“Of course darling.”
Anyway, here I am, sitting in my room (reflecting), while two girls play rummy on my bed with the television banging out some MTV tunes at low volume. It’s not exactly what I’d call an enviable position because it’s 05:18 and we are trying to be quiet because my gay neighbor likes to complain to management when sHE deems the decibels are too high. I guess sHE’s grown weary of the weekly fights my girlfriend and I need to keep our love flowing.
Sometimes I wonder if our love making is louder than our fights or if our neighbors confuse our nightly romp on the pillows with our boxing matches Maybe they think we are the street dogs howling at the passing ghosts. Who can know but it is a damn nice thing to reflect upon because our multi-hour sex sessions have recently ventured into the realm of fantasy and illusion.
My favorite thing is the blindfold. There is something marvelous about not being able to see the person that is ever so perfectly fucking my brains out, or as is often the case, sucking them out. Oh yes... I am not kidding. I appreciate every single hour of those 13 lovely years my new girlfriend spent learning her craft. I hope with the purest of intentions to one day wield my words as exquisitely as she wields my cock.
There are not many women on this planet (or in heaven for that matter) that can give you an orgasm that CUMS as effortlessly (not to mention as compulsively) as a yawn. Oh yes! YES YES YES YES YESSSSs! My dear boy, it is true. There is no doubt in my mind that I am experiencing the truest, most sincere, most sublime love that is humanly possible. After all, I am not a God (yet), and I require no alters.
Having a girlfriend with a craft that doesn’t bore me when we’re not having sex has its advantages. The main one I can think of is that I don’t need to waste time haunting Soi Nana or Soi Cowboy looking for a new skank every night that might tell me she is on her period or attempt some other well known hazard of the hunt after arriving at my room . Hell, maybe I’m just lazy, but I’ve done my share of hunting and when you stumble across a hapless prey that sucks and fucks better than the God’s deemed possible, it makes you take pause and consider alternative religions.
For instance, one might stroll down to Soi Three simply to dine on Tandori Chicken instead of following their penis to the Grace Hotel hoping to pork a leftover relic from Jurassic Park. Ali Baba must be grimacing in his grave at the thought of someone paying his castaway jewels for sex. On the other hand I think charity is a good and selfless act and I say “God bless” to each and to all that spend their time and their effort in search of those in need. It is truly gratifying to witness the miracle of the Christ-Child in such unlikely places.
Don’t get me wrong fellas. I enjoy sniffing out and flushing out P4P Poon-tang as long as I consider it a recreational event, but when you live here, when you do it on a daily basis, it no longer seems like recreation to me. I consider daily hunts almost as boring as a nine-to-five job. I realize that there are many of you (definitely one or two), that thrive best utilizing the tried-and-true hunting and gathering techniques passed down from our ancestors. Everyone has their own style and my style is trying to prove that the impossible is possible.
The girls are still playing cards and MTV is still banging out the tunes. They are in the middle of a Glam-rock segment and I am getting tired of hearing that genre but I’m too damn lazy to get up and change the channel. Besides, it’s near the bed and the girlfriend is almost out of money. She’s on a big losing steak and has been threatening to raid my wallet to pay her losses. Thankfully I stashed the large bills in my secret money sanctuary when I got wind that her friend would be dropping by.
It’s a tricky game keeping these girls out of the honey pot after they have given you the key to their kingdom, but it’s not impossible. The secret is to allow them small victories along the way to give them the feeling they can win the war. In a nut shell, it’s a little bit of luck combined with constant and relentless strategy. Be sure and take note of my tip from the last post. Eating Isaan food everyday not only gains you their favor, it is the absolute cheapest food you can buy in the Land of Oz and I think it tastes, “Grrrrreat!”
Excellent! My girl finally won a hand with a handsome pot. Good. I don’t need to think too much about my wallet for the time being.
I noticed a few cynical posts in the recent batch so this is a good time to change segments. I’ll call this the “I can’t believe it’s the cynical hour - hour.” I could also call it “The Hour of Unpublished Recent Scribbles and Reprints.” I dedicate this segment to the poster that penned “My 2nd Cynical Story About BKK.”
Dear Mr. Rugby Man,
It is highly appropriate that you are a hard cynic. It pays invaluable dividends to be a cynic when hunting for a prey that can maim you and kill you in ways far less desirable than death by Tsunami. At least drowning is a fairly easy death, or so I’ve heard. I somehow doubt that you are as “hard” a cynic as you need to be if this is the first time you have witnessed a disregard such as you just experienced. This infraction is of a minor degree in the grand scheme of the grand of schemers, but it contains very real and tangible hints of the brutal inclinations that have been ingrained in the psyche of most if not all of these girls.
Your cynical awareness needs to be hardened to the level that you realize the fact that a Bar Girl never lies. Once you have obtained the ability to grasp this physical truth your comprehension of the world will be altered as much as the comprehension of those brave souls that accidentally discovered that the earth is not flat, but round. A Bar Girl that has mastered the art of lying has accomplished something akin to an out of body experience.
You must understand that when a Bar Girl speaks she intrinsically believes every words she says. They have crafted the skill of manipulation to such a degree that they have no qualms about leading their victim to slaughter because that is their objective. It is akin to a lion or a tiger that stalks and kills and eats its prey. There is no guilt because they are guilty of nothing. In fact, there is every reason to feel good about themselves for they have proved they can survive. They have proved that they can hunt. They have proved that they can kill. It is the stuff that makes for a healthy appetite. When the feline carnivore eats it eats heartily. It is the same story with a Bar Girl.
Most humans call this animal behavior an instinct because they believe it is intrinsically wrong for one human to take advantage of another human via the art of deception or any of the other Seven Deadly Sins. This type of action is labeled as sin for most humans, but it is not labeled as sin for the animal kingdom. It is labeled as wild and Bar Girls really should be classified as something that is wild, even when they aren’t performing their most well known and desired acts.
I am not saying that you should treat them as less than human. It is considered immoral to treat a wild animal unjustly so I am not implying that you should treat them like a chicken being raised for slaughter. It’s not easy to explain what I am trying to tell you but believe me, you will understand this after you have tried to accomplish what is considered impossible once or twice. All I am trying to tell you (and it’s more like I’m trying to convey a sense of feeling or intuition) is that you need to treat Bar Girls as something more than human.
At the core of this intuitive knowledge is the ability to know when the killer has no inclination to kill. Wild animals have little fear of their predators when they know the predator is not hungry. It is something they have learned to sense and it is much the same type of thing you need to master with those wild things known as the Thai Bar Girl. I hope this makes some sort of sense.
Farewell and good luck, especially when defying all things impossible.
Poster
Now that I’m done with my letter writing practice I ought to write the letter to my Dad that I haven’t written for the last three months. Oh well, as my girlfriend once told me concerning her style with customers, “I try for finish quick quick. I never go long time with customer. I always think about time. I not want to lose time.” Then she snaps her finger while raising her left eyebrow and says, “You believe me?” Her style with customers has nothing to do with me not writing my Dad except that it conveys the feeling of helplessness one feels when you realize that time passes too quickly to accomplish every thing you want. The emotional angst of this realization is a common rationalization when rushing a customer or neglecting to write a letter to Dad, that’s all.
If you’ve read this far you might consider that I have been sitting here for five hours and the girls are still playing cards as if they just started. Thai women play cards with the highest level of gusto imaginable. I am convinced they are the card players card player. They play to win and they play until they have run out of energy or money or time. I could never have that much enthusiasm for the game, but then again, for them it’s not about playing a game nor is about energy or time, it’s all about the money. After they’ve fleeced their quarry with a quick screw the girls meet and play cards in an attempt to fleece each other for more money still.
The life of the Thai Bar Girl is an amazing phenomenon. I’ve been studying them first hand since November with complete and utter fascination. I am once again attending a university, sponging up every ounce of information I can get my hands on. All I can say is I am happy to have been accepted for undergraduate studies at Bar Girl University.
Now I have but one question left to ask. Will I graduate or not? That can’t be it can it?. It doesn’t sound right. It’s too simple, way too simple. Maybe the better question is this: Will I survive? That doesn’t sound much better either because no one survives. We all have to die sometime.
Maybe I can determine the right question if I think about what I have learned so far from the curriculum. Trying to formulate a question is a funny business. It’s a hell of a lot different than trying to answer a question that has already been asked. It now seems to me that most of the questions I’ve answered in my life were somehow unreasonable and should never have been asked in the first place.
I’m completely stuck inside this current line of thought. I can’t actually remember how I stumbled upon the question of what is the most pertinent question, but I have stumbled and now I can’t get up. The girls are still playing rummy. I’ve been sitting here for six hours and I am getting tired but I have to come up with an answer to this most pertinent of questions. Aha! Have I discovered it? I’ve been asking myself the most pertinent question all along and didn’t even know it. The most pertinent question one can ask themself is, “What is the most pertinent question?” Brilliant!
I was sitting on my couch for about five minutes with a big smile of triumph on my face for solving the riddle I’d created by accident when the ball fell and I was again crushed under the weight of another riddle that sprang into my head. What is the answer to the most pertinent of questions? Jesus H Christ! I have inadvertently created a more difficult riddle by solving the previous riddle. What a fucking mess. Why am I making up unsolvable riddles? What have I ever accomplished by asking and answering all these fucking questions?
I can’t say that I’ve really accomplished anything other than to stay alive and try to be happy, whatever that means (to stay alive and try to be happy), but it now seems a very sad fact that I haven’t got a clue. I look over at the girls and marvel at the amount of effort they put into playing cards to keep themselves occupied and I wonder if they are happy. It looks as if they might be? It also occurs to me how they would answer the most pertinent question, but I don’t think I’ll ask either one. I’m afraid they might think me crazy for asking such a thing. What would you think if out of the blue someone said to you, “Do you think you are happy? And by the way, what do you think is the most pertinent question you can ask?
I crack a smile that I imagine to be the smile of someone genuinely insane when my girlfriend puts her cards down and says, “I win!” Then she snaps her finger and raises her left eyebrow at her friend who is frowning because she did not win. My girlfriend sees that my glass is empty and asks me if I want a beer and I say, “Sure thing.” She comes over and gets my glass and looks at me in a questioning manner before going to pour my beer. After putting my beer on the coffee table she looks at me again and asks me if I’m happy. “I think so," are you okay?”
“Yes! Have many happy. Play cards with friend.” Then she looks at me again with a questioning look. "Are you okay, sure? I don’t like you look serious."”
“Yep yep. I’m okay. Don’t worry to much for me or I’ll think you serious too.” She laughs. We always joke with each other like that. It’s our style.
She goes back to her game and I stretch out on the couch and light a cigarette and have myself a long drink of the beer. Am I really happy? Damn! That’s it! Why didn’t I think of it? It must be the most pertinent question of all time. Then my mind throws another wrench at me when I wonder how one knows if one is or is not happy. I conclude that I obviously think too much and it is no wonder my girlfriend thinks I look too serious. I decide to resign myself to the wondrous act of sleeping.
Another day in Bangkok has come and gone. I’m lying on my couch trying to sleep and I’ve gotten to the point where I’m pretty sure sleep will be possible. I can hear the girls drawing and discarding their cards and after a few minutes my girlfriend wins another game and the image of her snapping her fingers and raising her left eyebrow pops into my head and I also recall the day she told me she doesn’t like to lose time when she goes with a customer. “I never go long time with customer. I not like to lose time.”
I open my eyes and look over at my girlfriend and she is also looking at me. “Are you happy?”, I say.
“Yes! Are you okay?” I could tell by the look on her face that she was happy.
“I’m very happy.” I said.
“You Sure?”
“Yes Ma’am.”
“You sleep now?”
“Yeah, I’m tired.” She pats her hand on the bed next to her, “You sleep here while I play cards then I sleep next to you when I finish.
It was then that every thing I had thought of during the last six hours came together as an understandable whole. I had an answer for everything. What is the most pertinent question? Easy! “Are you Happy?” How do you know you are happy? Piece of cake! “Do I feel like I’m losing time?” Right now I don’t feel like I’m losing time therefore I must be happy. Right?
Right or wrong things aren’t bad. I’ve got a warm body next to me. The air conditioner is working and there is plenty of food in the icebox. I’ve got money in the bank for now and I have a girlfriend that can make money if she wants too. I can’t think of much else that could make someone happier. Can You?
This is a very old story from back in 2005. Although it is an old story, it is a true story. So I hope you all will forgive me for contributing stale material. If it helps to justify my cause, and even if it doesn't help, this one is near and dear to my heart:
"Right or wrong things aren’t bad. I’ve got a warm body next to me. The air conditioner is working and there is plenty of food in the icebox. I’ve got money in the bank for now and I have a girlfriend that can make money if she wants too. I can’t think of much else that could make someone happier. Can You?"PL: Thanks for posting this (again). I was getting a little frustrated with some nonsense from my BG GF/gik and this helped me to realize that it's all "okay" and I just need to stop thinking too much. Cheers.
Slylock,
Thanks for your story! Nice one! I really enjoyed it! Suffer more, please, write more stories :) !
Somehow I was all the time waiting for a different outcome. I thought this was the Malaysian version of the "cut-it-off-and-give-it-to-the ducks" story...
ARE YOU SURE YOU BALLS WILL RECOVER ???
Giotto
Sorry for the late reply Giotto but my internet was down.
OK, no It is most certainly NOT a cut anything off story! lol.
So now to finish my story. First my balls are still attached, recovered and working better then ever...near death experiences will do that. My boil didn't go away :( and it is not Toad puke, it happens to be Herbs, lucky me! So I went into the normal doctor and got it lanced. I may have to take Tansak up on his med offer.
So Giotto when I final make it up to LL you and I can discus which hurts more, Ball crushing or partial circumcision by a massage girl! (personally I think just having a hot girl there during the pain would make it more bearable...but maybe not LOL)
Slylock
PS - Giotto you are a sadist!!! LOL
Slylock,
Thanks for your story! Nice one! I really enjoyed it! Suffer more, please, write more stories :) !
PosterLion
03-28-09, 01:10
PL: Thanks for posting this (again). I was getting a little frustrated with some nonsense from my BG GF/gik and this helped me to realize that it's all "okay" and I just need to stop thinking too much. Cheers.
. . . dept store?
Member #3428
03-28-09, 01:34
. . . dept store?
Reminds me of Zen but the orange uniforms are not right
PosterLion
03-28-09, 01:53
hmmm . . .
maybe American productivity in one or two years
Flamboyant Bob
03-28-09, 20:29
Well what can I say.
Nice meeting you Mr. Giotto.
I ended up back at my hotel alone. And the lesson learnt is never to go out with colleagues (with the wrong mindset) so late. I just have to wait until tomorrow for some action.
All the best
Flamboyant Bob
Sometimes things develop differently from what you expect, even in standard situations. The story:
If was time for an exciting experience, besides the normal routine of the relationship. Time to activate a MSC (Mobile Service Center).
I scrolled through the numbers of my phone, and made my choice: X, a spinner from Isaan, excellent massage skills and exactly the type of girl I like. Besides that – a permanent horny woman – she simply likes to perform. I know her since years, but I had no contact for over a year or so.
So I decided to send a text message: “Are you working?”
It lasted not longer than two minutes, and I had a reply. “No, not working.”
Hmm, what to do now ... ok, try to find out what she is doing right now: “Where are you working now?”
Immediate answer again: “Me not working, me take care kids of sister!”
OK. Let’s come to the point: “Where can I see you?”
Again the answer came fast: “I not know, only hotel! I want to see you!”
Good, X still seemed to be interested, so I proposed an ST hotel and a time, one and a half hours later, and everything was prepared. I sneaked out giving Mrs. Giotto some necessary explanation and caught a motorbike taxi to the area around the ST hotel. The last 500 m I walked, a bit excited, I had not been with that girl for a very long time.
I was already 15 min. late, and when I arrived nobody was there. But – that is normal, TGs are never in time, they are always late. Strong sunshine that day, early afternoon, I looked for a shadowy place around the hotel, I did not want to wait in the lobby. Some motorbikes stopped, pickling customers and girls up ... and then a taxi stopped at the entrance of the hotel, 15 m. away from where I was waiting.
A huge black guy was getting off the taxi – not my girl. --- He looked around a bit, saw me standing there ... wow, what a man, body builder style, a mixture of Michael Jordan and Mike Tyson, 2 times my size, arms of the size of my legs ... hmm, why did he turn towards me and walked over?
Serious face, and a serious question in American English: “Are you the guy who was texting my girlfriend X ? “ --- Ohhh, Sssshhhhiiiiittttt!!!!! ---- Pulse frequency rising, RED ALERT ...
Oh my god! The mountain of a man stood directly in front of me. Things would get nasty now. I virtually said good bye to my dick, my health, my life... My eyes checked for possible escape routes ... OK, there was no way out, running was not an option.
I turned my head up (my god, this guy was huge), looked into his eyes and answered: “Yes, I know her long time!”
Expecting the worst his answer was surprisingly civilized: “Would you please stop texting my girl friend? We are together over a year now!”
I was still tense: “Ohhh ... OK! “ --- not much of an answer – I forgot to add “I did not know!”
The guy was very polite: “Thank you. Have a good day!” – turned around, walked back to his taxi (I had not realized that the taxi had waited), and off he was.
----
I started to relax. I was wet – sweating like a pig. I walked down the road to the next coffee shop, ordered a Latte and smoked a cigarette. Blood pressure was normalizing ... sweat output levels sinking ...
What an exciting afternoon :) ... but - This is Thailand!
Giotto
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