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Giotto
10-22-06, 04:35
Thread Starter

Giotto
10-22-06, 04:40
...
BTW, here's a general tip for all those guys who walk in the bars and "wai" the staff and the girls: stop doing it. It's really not appropriate and you look like jerks for doing it.That's something that would belong here. I see it daily in my bar - customers "wai"ing to the girls, and the girls giggling afterwards.


Giotto

Member #3200
10-22-06, 05:14
i am newbie to the thailand forum as i usually do my mongering in cuba,i'm trying to learn thru reading the forum b4 my arrive in 4 weeks.
LOS-land of smiles
FL---?
what is "wai"
each place here has it's own sayings & to be more helpful,a general guide of short forms would be to newbies to the thailand board,instead of the ever so popular & rude at times--RTFF
thank you very much friends & happy hunting

Giotto
10-22-06, 05:22
...
what is "wai"
Member #3200,

Result of a fast google (better some specialists describe the "wai"):

http://www.1stopchiangmai.com/how_to/wai


Giotto

Old Thai Hand
10-22-06, 05:28
i am newbie to the thailand forum as i usually do my mongering in cuba,i'm trying to learn thru reading the forum b4 my arrive in 4 weeks.
LOS-land of smiles
FL---?
what is "wai"
each place here has it's own sayings & to be more helpful,a general guide of short forms would be to newbies to the thailand board,instead of the ever so popular & rude at times--RTFF
thank you very much friends & happy hunting

wai = traditional Thai greeting. Put hands together, as if in prayer, place the thumbs in your solar plexis so that the tips of your fingers are touching your chin, and bow slightly. it is meant for those of equal social status (in which case the bow can be dispensed with) and more importantly for those of higher social status. If the person is of much higher social status (such as a boss), thumbs go in the groove above your lip, so the that tips of the fingers are touching just above the "third eye" (between the eyebrows). The 2 additional forms of the wai are of little use to foreigners unless, a/ you plan to visit a monk, b/ you plan to meet the King.

Don't EVER...wai children, bargirls, barstaff, maids, shop people, hotel receptionists, flight attendants or basically anyone below you in status. It embarasses Thais and makes you look like a dope.

PeterPanCan
10-22-06, 08:35
To what extent is Thai culture the real thing?

I found that often the Thai girls fall back on Thai culture as a bastion in order not to allow the male visitor from engaging in something with the Thai girl. It seems to be like somekind of modesty protection for Thai girls.

For example, try as hard as I wished to get physically close to a Thai girl whom I knew after dating her for several months, she would not even physically hold my hand. Her defence : that it is not in keeping with Thai culture for a girl to physically touch a man.

Like the time when I was visiting her alma mater. I was not alert while trying to make a walk across the road. She caught my shirt sleeve between her index and middle finger and pulled me away from an oncoming vehicle. I was stunned for a moment or two when she did that. Apparently she meant what she said.

And back at the Office, I would always hear the Office girls repeat to me, "Mei dai, mei dai Khun Pete. Thai culture don't allow it", to a point where I began to feel that hailing their Thai culture was becoming an impediment to ever being a normal human in that country.

Old Thai Hand
10-22-06, 10:23
To what extent is Thai culture the real thing?

I found that often the Thai girls fall back on Thai culture as a bastion in order not to allow the male visitor from engaging in something with the Thai girl. It seems to be like somekind of modesty protection for Thai girls.

For example, try as hard as I wished to get physically close to a Thai girl whom I knew after dating her for several months, she would not even physically hold my hand. Her defence : that it is not in keeping with Thai culture for a girl to physically touch a man.

Like the time when I was visiting her alma mater. I was not alert while trying to make a walk across the road. She caught my shirt sleeve between her index and middle finger and pulled me away from an oncoming vehicle. I was stunned for a moment or two when she did that. Apparently she meant what she said.

And back at the Office, I would always hear the Office girls repeat to me, "Mei dai, mei dai Khun Pete. Thai culture don't allow it", to a point where I began to feel that hailing their Thai culture was becoming an impediment to ever being a normal human in that country.


Well, I essentially think this is bollocks (not what you're saying). But, what the girls were saying to you. It's true that there are some TGs that still adhere to the old-fashioned ways. Oddly enough, many come from Isaan, the source of most BGs.

But, in my experience, EVERY TG is available, even the "good girls". I've never been refused by any that I've made a move on and I'm most certainly not exactly Don Juan. But, the thing is that the culture requires that a good TG put up a front to show they're good girls.

I'll give you an example. I used to have a class of girls and one girl was ostracized by the others because she was honest, i.e. spoke about staying over-night with her BF. The other girls feined shock and wouldn't talk to her, or even work with her in class projects etc. etc. They'd say things like, "I'm a good girl. I don't drink or smoke or go out to the disco. I don't even have a BF." and so on.

One night I was out at Route 66 at RCA and who should I run into, but the so-called "good girls" off their faces drunk, dancing they asses off, and making out with their "non-BFs". Needless-to-say, that on Monday morning in class, they were a little subdued.

There is a double-standard here that requires a certain type of behaviour on the part of women. But, that doesn't mean that they in reality adhere to this.

Finally, I'd like to add that there is still a stigma being seen to associate with a Farang. This is changing rapidly, especially in Bangkok. But, in some more tradition-bound families, especially HiSo families and in certain conservative parts of the country, a girl is damned if she's involved in anyway with a Farang.

Fox Two
10-22-06, 13:14
Until someone must have discreetly related this to the person in charge of Human Resouce Department. I was summoned to the Head of HR Department and was told not to return a "wai" (like you just said) to any person who is below me in status.


That brings up a question I'd like to ask. As a foreigner, is there a typical way of assessing your personal status relative to other thais? Obviously, your status is higher than servants, but it gets a little unclear (to me) with regard to normal everyday folks, professional and business associates.

Cheers,

Fox Two

Old Thai Hand
10-22-06, 14:08
That brings up a question I'd like to ask. As a foreigner, is there a typical way of assessing your personal status relative to other thais? Obviously, your status is higher than servants, but it gets a little unclear (to me) with regard to normal everyday folks, professional and business associates.

Cheers,

Fox Two

Simple. If they are colleagues, and younger, wait until they wai you and then wai them back. If they are older, wai them first.

If you're concerned about what to do in the general population, basically consider as a Farang, you're above almost everyone, (except the HiSo crowd), and so they should all, young and old alike wai you. If they don't (and many don't), you most certainly shouldn't wai them. if you happen to run with the HiSo crowd, just act like you're one of them; i.e. the mutual wai.

I conplained to my students that they will wai a Thai professor right in front of me, but don't wai me. They said, "You're a Farang. We didn't think you would want or expect it. Do you want us to wai you?" Then one of the girls (a real cutie, actually) who went to International school before university said, "We always just hugged our Farang teacher in high school. Do you want us to do that?" and she gave me a little sexy, wink. So, I may have to select option 2. LOL

Terry Terrier
10-23-06, 00:18
Difficult one, this one.

A while back, I was in the VIP section of the Thai restaurant at Don Muang Domestic Terminal (don't ask why, it's a long, boring story). The clientele of this nice little enclave consisted of myself and my travel party, and a large group of khun Thai. About 15 minutes after the large group of khun Thai entered, two suits and two armed forces fatigues entered. Khun Thai all stood up and applauded the suits voraciously. The suits humbly acknowledged the applause and gestured their bodyguards to take their ease and, I presume, order some food, which said bodyguards did whilst thanking the suits profusely.

My first question is: Would the suits be armed forces or civilians?

My second (presumptious) question is: If the suits were governing politicians, would Thai society show the same respect after the suits' government had been ousted? What would the suits' positions be in the orthodox Thai heirarchy in this situation?

Old Thai Hand
10-23-06, 05:47
Difficult one, this one.

A while back, I was in the VIP section of the Thai restaurant at Don Muang Domestic Terminal (don't ask why, it's a long, boring story). The clientele of this nice little enclave consisted of myself and my travel party, and a large group of khun Thai. About 15 minutes after the large group of khun Thai entered, two suits and two armed forces fatigues entered. Khun Thai all stood up and applauded the suits voraciously. The suits humbly acknowledged the applause and gestured their bodyguards to take their ease and, I presume, order some food, which said bodyguards did whilst thanking the suits profusely.

My first question is: Would the suits be armed forces or civilians?

My second (presumptious) question is: If the suits were governing politicians, would Thai society show the same respect after the suits' government had been ousted? What would the suits' positions be in the orthodox Thai heirarchy in this situation?

The suits would most likely be government, not military.

It depends on who they were, meaning both the politicians and the Thais. If the politicians were TRT, and the Thais were Bangkok Thais, it's unlikely that they would have applauded even if TRT were still in power. Maybe the suits were something else, Democrats or the Governor of Bangkok, who's very popular. It's hard to answer the question, really. Politicians, even recently ousted rich ones have been booed by people of lower rank to them. If a Thai was confronted one on one with a politician, they would probably wai first, out of respect, even if not liking the politician just because of their position. But, it would also depend on the Thai's status. I know lots of HiSo Thais who would never have wai'ed Taksin when he was Prime Minister because they considered him below them in social status. Taksin is Chinese, not even Thai-Chinese, so is viewed by many true middle and upper-class Thais as not warranting respect. When Thais are in-doubt about when to wai, and it happens, they just end up wai-ing almost simultaneously. I see it happen all the time.

Petemcc
10-23-06, 16:38
Pete

"The fact that you've already been in Thailand and still don't know what a "wai" is, clearly shows you need help. BTW. It's that funny thing Thais do with their hands when they greet you."

Mate, of course I know what it is, I just didn't know what it was called and couldn't be arsed looking it up when I was tired.

It seems as though I will be recognised as a monger immediately by the entire Thai population when I am with my BG. Fair enough.

Now, tell me this. In two cases of no chance of a return match, my BG walked with me hand in hand as I dropped them off, actually three cases.

Having been fucked and being paid, are these girls not embarassed by being identified as prostitutes, or are they professionals, or do they just not care?
Shit, even my little 21 year old who I spent those days with held my hand on the Bhat busses and snuggled up with me. I was a bit embarassed for her- me a 42 yo white guy, she a 21 yo Thai girl, but yet she did it!

I don't expect you or anyone to be able to understand individual behaviour, but I just wondered what the take is on how BGs act with you and how you can make the experience as hassle free and acceptable as possible?

Am I making sense? Probably not- shouldn't have had those beers after a double shift. If anyone can understand what I am getting at, can i have the benefit of your wisdom please?

Pete

Yi Ren
10-23-06, 19:18
Pete <...>
It seems as though I will be recognised as a monger immediately by the entire Thai population when I am with my BG. Fair enough.

Now, tell me this. In two cases of no chance of a return match, my BG walked with me hand in hand as I dropped them off, actually three cases.

Having been fucked and being paid, are these girls not embarassed by being identified as prostitutes, or are they professionals, or do they just not care?
Shit, even my little 21 year old who I spent those days with held my hand on the Bhat busses and snuggled up with me. I was a bit embarassed for her- me a 42 yo white guy, she a 21 yo Thai girl, but yet she did it!

I don't expect you or anyone to be able to understand individual behaviour, but I just wondered what the take is on how BGs act with you and how you can make the experience as hassle free and acceptable as possible?

Am I making sense? Probably not- shouldn't have had those beers after a double shift. If anyone can understand what I am getting at, can i have the benefit of your wisdom please?
Pete
Pete,

It's probably not so hard to understand: all of us, have our little dreams and fantasies. Perhaps she was just indulging in hers a bit.

In my experience, at least two non-BGs - not at all in or around the business - have acted much more intimtately in public than I would've thought, even 6 months ago. To be sure, both were older than 21, but still... We're talking in very public places like pubs (maybe not such a big deal), but places like bowling alleys. (BTW, take a Thai bowling sometime - it's a hoot!)

BTW, I can't believe you're taking Baht-busses. Taxis are so cheap here, with a companion, I won't even take the BTS or MRT - it ends up being very close in cost (except when traffic conditions warrant).

Cheers,
-Y

Thor93
10-24-06, 05:36
In my experience, at least two non-BGs - not at all in or around the business - have acted much more intimtately in public than I would've thought, even 6 months ago. To be sure, both were older than 21, but still... We're talking in very public places like pubs (maybe not such a big deal), but places like bowling alleys. (BTW, take a Thai bowling sometime - it's a hoot!)

Cheers,
-Y

The "good" girl I was saw the other night was not afraid to hold my hand in public. She is probably a lot more self confident than most Thai girls though. She works hard and makes good money. She told me she thinks half-Thai and half-farang. But like all Thai girls, more than once she told me she was shy.

I do think there are no real stereotypes. The culture is changing here as in other places. Remember that these girls are exposed to Western TV, movies, books, etc. Think about what gets depicted there as normal. It does rub off. Blanket statements as to what a "good" girl or bar girl is or isn't just don't hold water. Each girl while similar to others, is also unique in her own way. They all hold surprises for the man who takes the time to know them.

Petemcc
10-24-06, 15:55
Pete,

BTW, I can't believe you're taking Baht-busses. Taxis are so cheap here, with a companion, I won't even take the BTS or MRT - it ends up being very close in cost (except when traffic conditions warrant).

Cheers,

YMate, it was Pattaya and all were 5-10 minute trips maximum on teh Bhat bus routes, so no point in taking a taxi!

Also, the girls who held my hand etc will have been indulging me in my fantasy, and in fact I would be less than a half wit if I thought otherwise, but they, and particularly my 21 YO didn't seem to care about the public image- that was the point I think I was trying to make, but with 10 more beers inside me than now!

Old Thai Hand
10-25-06, 05:14
The "good" girl I was saw the other night was not afraid to hold my hand in public. She is probably a lot more self confident than most Thai girls though. She works hard and makes good money. She told me she thinks half-Thai and half-farang. But like all Thai girls, more than once she told me she was shy.

I do think there are no real stereotypes. The culture is changing here as in other places. Remember that these girls are exposed to Western TV, movies, books, etc. Think about what gets depicted there as normal. It does rub off. Blanket statements as to what a "good" girl or bar girl is or isn't just don't hold water. Each girl while similar to others, is also unique in her own way. They all hold surprises for the man who takes the time to know them.

Yes, it is true that Thai culture is changing. But, there is still a HUGE gap between how a BG, freelancer etc. looks, speaks and behaves and how a regular TG looks, speaks and behaves. If you live here long enough, you can spot the difference.


Petemcc

Your 21 yo didn't care about her public image because

a. afterall, she's in Pattaya, the place is a pit and everyone is the same, anyway
b. she's not at home, so nobody knows her
c. everyone probably knows she's a hooker. So, she doesn't care anymore
c. she's a hooker and so, has surrendered her Thai-ness to the demands of her 'profession'

Thor93
10-25-06, 12:05
Yes, it is true that Thai culture is changing. But, there is still a HUGE gap between how a BG, freelancer etc. looks, speaks and behaves and how a regular TG looks, speaks and behaves. If you live here long enough, you can spot the difference.


I think you are probably overgeneralizing too much. I used to spend a lot of time in Spasso's and sometimes figuring out who was working and who was a regular girl out for a night with her friends was really tough. Sure there are those that scream working girl, but you can never be sure until you ask. That was always one of the things I used to like about that place, you never know until you ask the question where they work. Luckily there were always large numbers of working girls sprinkled in there, but it would be a huge mistake to think that every girl in there is a working girl.

The escort agency I used to use specialized in university girls. Almost all of the ones I met from there came from good families, just maybe not the super rich ones. No way you would peg them as a working girl just by looks.

I think what differentiates the girls is where they started on the economic scale. A Bangkok born girl from a decent family will almost look the same whether she freelances or is the regular girl. A go-go girl from upcountry will usually never have that same sophistication in dressing or speaking. Those differences are easy to spot normally.

Over the years I have learned it is very difficult to always predict what is inside based upon the outside. Yes, there are often clear signs, but just as often you can get it totally wrong just based on how she looks, talks, or behaves.

Duniawala
10-25-06, 13:51
Over the years I have learned it is very difficult to always predict what is inside based upon the outside. Yes, there are often clear signs, but just as often you can get it totally wrong just based on how she looks, talks, or behaves.
Sorry Thor93, but you got it all wrong. According to the master expat all Thai girls will fuck, regardless of their origin and backround. All it needs are the charming tactics employed. So the rest of us need to go to the charm school and learn from the master. :)

Old Thai Hand
10-25-06, 15:16
Sorry Thor93, but you got it all wrong. According to the master expat all Thai girls will fuck, regardless of their origin and backround. All it needs are the charming tactics employed. So the rest of us need to go to the charm school and learn from the master. :)

Yes, even you too can do it, with a little practice. LOL

Thor

I would very much doubt that quite as many uni girls are working for these agencies as they'd have you believe. The uni girl freelancing to make money to buy Gucci handbags, a new mobile phone or to pay her tuition is largely an urban myth. There are some, of course, but, not nearly as many as newspaper stories or these agencies would have you believe. It's simply a good marketing ploy and ups that value, to say the girl is a student. I think the same can be said of the Bangkok girl, born into a good family making a little on the side for whatever reason. I'm sure a few exist. But, I've maybe met 5 or 6 genuine student or middle-class working girls in 10 years. Others, when pressed for details admit that they aren't what they say they are.

About my so-called generalization...Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that BGs and the like are bad, or terrible or anything else in that vein. I've met lots who were quite nice. But, in terms of how they carry themselves, the way they speak the language etc. I just think there's a difference, certainly more noticeable in BGs and especially those in Pattaya.

Thor93
10-25-06, 15:56
Yes, even you too can do it, with a little practice. LOL

Thor

I would very much doubt that quite as many uni girls are working for these agencies as they'd have you believe. The uni girl freelancing to make money to buy Gucci handbags, a new mobile phone or to pay her tuition is largely an urban myth. There are some, of course, but, not nearly as many as newspaper stories or these agencies would have you believe. It's simply a good marketing ploy and ups that value, to say the girl is a student. I think the same can be said of the Bangkok girl, born into a good family making a little on the side for whatever reason. I'm sure a few exist. But, I've maybe met 5 or 6 genuine student or middle-class working girls in 10 years. Others, when pressed for details admit that they aren't what they say they are.

About my so-called generalization...Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that BGs and the like are bad, or terrible or anything else in that vein. I've met lots who were quite nice. But, in terms of how they carry themselves, the way they speak the language etc. I just think there's a difference, certainly more noticeable in BGs and especially those in Pattaya.

I might have a bit more experience in this area of escorts and agencies then you. My diminished bank account might back me up on that.

For a bunch of years I was using agencies. I actually got to know the woman that ran the place. One of my early Thai girlfriends who was an escort there ended up a partner there, so besides sampling the offerings I got to see what went on behind the scenes. I am not saying there are huge numbers, but there are enough to make it interesting and that is more than just a few.

As for differences between bar girls, my opinion is it really is economic and where they come from. I think they sort of segregate themselves out. The last go go dancer I got from Nana was a uni girl, no doubt about it. And yes, she did speak better than many of the farm girls working there. She started off at a higher level economically but was right up there on stage with them anyway. And you pay the same bar fine for her as one that barely speaks english.

I always look for the diamonds in the rough. They are out there. You just have to realize it may take a couple of tries to find them.

Old Thai Hand
10-25-06, 17:00
I might have a bit more experience in this area of escorts and agencies then you. My diminished bank account might back me up on that.The last go go dancer I got from Nana was a uni girl, no doubt about it. And yes, she did speak better than many of the farm girls working there. She started off at a higher level economically but was right up there on stage with them anyway. And you pay the same bar fine for her as one that barely speaks english.

I always look for the diamonds in the rough. They are out there. You just have to realize it may take a couple of tries to find them.

I'm sure you have more experience, as I've never used an escort service in Thailand. I'm also sure that there's the odd uni girl working as a gogo or freelancer. I wrote in another post that I had a student at Ramkhamhaeng U. many years ago who worked at Hollywood at NEP and another at Long Gun. I know a recently graduated student, from Rajabhat University who worked (and presumably still does) out of the Beer Garden. However, The fact that they're uni students isn't such a big deal, when they come from unis like Ram. or Rajabhat. Now show me a uni girl from Bangkok U., Chulalongkhorn or Thammasat dancing at a gogo or feelancing at Spasso's, and I might get interested. But, I somehow doubt you would find such a thing.

Giotto
10-25-06, 17:03
...Now show me a uni girl from Bangkok U., Chulalongkhorn or Thammasat dancing at a gogo or feelancing at Spasso's, and I might get interested. But, I somehow doubt you would find such a thing.Old Thai Hand,

Ohhh, I know a group of girls from Bangkok University in the game - and really really very professional!


Giotto

Old Thai Hand
10-25-06, 17:10
Old Thai Hand,

Ohhh, I know a group of girls from Bangkok University in the game - and really really very professional!


Giotto


LOL. OK. We need to talk! Maybe I know them!

Traveler1234
10-25-06, 17:18
Old Thai Hand,

Ohhh, I know a group of girls from Bangkok University in the game - and really really very professional!

Giotto

Nov 22-25 - book 1 or 2 of the uni girls for those nights for the Director of Marketing :D

Giotto
10-25-06, 17:19
LOL. OK. We need to talk! Maybe I know them!Old Thai Hand,

No! They are beautiful like hell. They are MINE!!!! :D:D !


Giotto

Petemcc
10-25-06, 17:52
Petemcc

Your 21 yo didn't care about her public image because

a. afterall, she's in Pattaya, the place is a pit and everyone is the same, anyway
b. she's not at home, so nobody knows her
c. everyone probably knows she's a hooker. So, she doesn't care anymore
c. she's a hooker and so, has surrendered her Thai-ness to the demands of her 'profession'[/QUOTE]

Good answer, and most probably correct. She actually was from Pats and she and her sister have a beauty salon there, but that's by the by. At least I understand now-Basically the girls don't give a fuck because they are acting out the role that people like me expect, like professionals.

Personally, and in all sincerity, I am glad about that. I know a lot about prostitutes from western cultures and know how they hav two lives. I appreciate that many Thai girls sell themselves for the same reason as western girls, but stuidly, I didn't think that these girls would be professionals, after all, they are only commanding a living wage as opposed to a western investment and retirement wage.

I am seriously not trying to come across here as anything other than genuine, but I felt that Thai girls were somehow less than professional *****s, more like part timers. Suddenly, I can see your point, and perhaps I was taken in by the LOS.
Ultimately, I don't give a fuck if my girl wants to do what she does and act professionally and please her clients by fulfiling their expectations. What I do care about is their feelings, and their loss of face, but it seems from the past couple of days of postings that these girls accept trading in their culture for their job.
Still, I have many more questions to ask,when I get around to asking them, and many may not be answered on this forum.

Seriously, I know, wherever I do it, that I am fucking a prostitue. In my limited experience Thailand gives not only the cheapest, but best GFEs . I fucked some babes in China, but they were shit, and not interested. I have fucked many girls for payment or not- mostly not, but I found that the best ones were the ones that offered the GFE. I love the GFE, and even though I know that it is all fake, for me it is more important than just a few pops.

Someone walking hand in hand with me down the street, before or after the deed, really does it for me. Sitting in a bar with her, or in a restaurant with her reall does it for me. I look across at this babe and remember shagging her, or look forward to doing so, without all the emotional baggage that goes with love.

Without a doubt, in Pattaya, what you put in ( pardon the pun), you get out. I am quite sure that even the most hardened Thai ***** would like to keep some aspects of their culture that hasn't been bastardised by Falangs.

Please, those of you who know know, tell us!

Old Thai Hand
10-26-06, 06:16
Pete

I think you have your head on straight and a good view of things. I would say that the GFE probably is at least partially genuine. Most BGs, even the most hardened ones are still Thai, afterall and it's part of their nature and ingrained in their soul from early childhood to look after the man. Many have learned to really take advantage of their skill at this and manipulate hapless Farang with their charm. But, it doesn't mean that some don't necessarily have a little genuine feeling of some kind. It's easy to get caught up in it, because they are very seductive. Just, maintain a certain common-sense and level of detachment.

I will reveal a little secret which, I'm sure will probably invite all kinds of derision from all those (and there are many) who hate me on this board.

Last Spring, (before I met my current GF), I sponsored a BG in Pattaya for a little while. Although I hate Pattaya, I had to go there, to meet a girl I had chatted with online, who works for that glass-bottomed submarine company. She turned out to be a complete idiot and a total flake. So, there I was stuck in Pattaya, not wanting to immediately turn around and come back to Bangers. So, I planned to stay one night and decided to go down to walking street for awhile. I went into Carousel and met an 18 y.o. girl from Udon, who seemed nice enough, cute enough etc. So, I took her out. She was a nice girl, truly stuck in the business (her friggin' aunt also dances in Carousel!!) and she really wanted to get out. She had enrolled in a well-known, local Vocational College to study IT and needed help. I checked on her story to see if it was a come-on to get money and it did check out. To confirm it further, she showed me her school ID, uniform etc. But, she was in need of new patent leather shoes for the uniform and a regulation school bag. So, I took her shopping, bought the shoes and the school bag and basically kitted her out in all that she needed. I also bought school shoes and a school bag for her young brother. She didn't ask me. I just did it. It wasn't like she was after money for drugs, or partying or whatever. She had a genuine need and I bought her what she needed. She never asked me for any more than that. I did give her a little cash for the first couple of months of school even though I knew she was going to continue working at the bar and might obviously hit on another guy for some help. I guess I'm a sucker for a student in need. But, I know at least there was something more than just opportunism in her, because she often still calls me just to chat and to tell me about school. She knows I have a GF, so never asks me for anything. She seems to just be grateful that I helped, likes me a little for being 'jai dee' and wants to keep in contact with me. I don't read anything more into it than that.

So, enjoy your GFE for what it is, if it makes you feel more than, the process just being a cold-hearted exercise in cash-and-carry. All romance is an illusion, anyway. And, Thai women are expert at the illusion.

Giotto
10-26-06, 07:53
...I will reveal a little secret which, I'm sure will probably invite all kinds of derision from all those (and there are many) who hate me on this board. ...
Old Thai Hand,

Glad to hear that you belong to the human beings :) ...well done, my friend!

It is nothing wrong with helping this girls sometimes, even if it costs us a bit pocket money. But there is always the option that some of the girls take the chance and seriously work on their better future.


Giotto

Petemcc
10-26-06, 09:42
OTH, wow, you have surprised me and probably everyone else on this forum. You are human after all.
I am impressed by your honesty and your story-thanks for that. And, thanks for the words of encouragement. A new side to you perhaps, or is that how you always were? Not perhaps as you would have had us believe!
Regards
Pete

Old Thai Hand
10-26-06, 10:06
OTH, wow, you have surprised me and probably everyone else on this forum. You are human after all.
I am impressed by your honesty and your story-thanks for that. And, thanks for the words of encouragement. A new side to you perhaps, or is that how you always were? Not perhaps as you would have had us believe!
Regards
Pete

HUMAN!!!!! Them's fighting words!!!!!!

I won't ever tell about the real me....ROTFLMAO!. As I said once, awhile ago, some drink, some smoke dope, some fuck lots of girls (well I used to, as well) to relieve frustrations, tension or boredom. I use ISG to vent when I'm having a particularly bad week. "Ah", you might say, "You've obviously been having many bad weeks, then." LOL. Yes, I have, especially lately. I have the quintessential, pyscho, ***** from hell for a boss. Surprise! Not all Thai women are the lovely things we think they are. Thai women, especially HiSo, older (she's 47) Thai women are probably some of the worst 'cunts' you could ever meet and make really terrible bosses. This women phones me at all times of the day or night and fucking yells at me about everything and anything: work, me, the job I'm doing, her Farang husband (who sounds like an over-bearing dick), her bosses and other shit too boring to mention. She had the nerve to tell me I was too fat, and that I had to lose weight because I was costing too much for my insurance premium...all true, BTW. But, her timing, (she did it in front of the office manager leading to my loss of face), not to mention her decibel level were a little hard to take. Don't get me wrong. I love my job. I love my students, they love me and I'm extremely good at what I do, which is why she can never fire me. I love most of my colleagues. And, of course I love living here. But, not all is perfect in LOS.

Still, I know I need to find another outlet (maybe I should just slap the *****) and tone down the rhetoric considerably.

I often joke that I date really young TGs, not just for the obvious reasons, but because if I finally marry one, by the time she's my age, I'll be dead and won't have to put up with a middle-aged, menopausal, psycho Thai woman.

Giotto
10-26-06, 11:41
... She had the nerve to tell me I was too fat, and that I had to lose weight because I was costing too much for my insurance premium...all true, BTW. ...Old Thai Hand,

ROTFLMAO!!!

OK, we will prepare a diet for you, no ribs any more on mondays! Green Salad, no sauce, and water - I drink the red wine alone :D:D:D !


Giotto (on the floor)

Duniawala
10-26-06, 12:17
…This women phones me at all times of the day or night and fucking yells at me about everything and anything: work, me, the job I'm doing, …
OTH, you ARE losing your touch. Can't you see that she is jealous of your GFs and she needs a good solid F**K from you. Once you make her your lover, she is going to be one pussy cat. Purrrr…… :)

Old Thai Hand
10-26-06, 12:22
OTH, you ARE losing your touch. Can't you see that she is jealous of your GFs and she needs a good solid F**K from you. Once you make her your lover, she is going to be one pussy cat. Purrrr…… :)



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You just made me lose my dinner. The image of that will stay in my head for days. God! I have to see her tomorrow morning. You Bestard!!!!!!

Opebo
10-26-06, 15:04
This is what is wonderful about Pattaya, not only for we customers, but for the poor Thai/Lao girls - it offers them a chance to escape from their horribly stultifying culture!

In many ways the joy experienced by a young Thai girl leaving the miserable boredom of village, farm, or small town to make easy money, stay up all night, and be somewhat independent is greater than that experienced by the monger escaping his own life-wasting anhedonic culture. True, most of them are still dumb enough to send money home and that sort of nonsense, but not all. And curiously - I know this is hard to believe, and I've always been a skeptic - it really seems that a few of them actually enjoy the sex!

Petemcc
10-27-06, 02:47
HUMAN!!!!! Them's fighting words!!!!!!

I won't ever tell about the real me....ROTFLMAO!. As I said once, awhile ago, some drink, some smoke dope, some fuck lots of girls (well I used to, as well) to relieve frustrations, tension or boredom. I use ISG to vent when I'm having a particularly bad week. "Ah", you might say, "You've obviously been having many bad weeks, then." LOL. Yes, I have, especially lately. I have the quintessential, pyscho, ***** from hell for a boss. Surprise! Not all Thai women are the lovely things we think they are. Thai women, especially HiSo, older (she's 47) Thai women are probably some of the worst 'cunts' you could ever meet and make really terrible bosses. This women phones me at all times of the day or night and fucking yells at me about everything and anything: work, me, the job I'm doing, her Farang husband (who sounds like an over-bearing dick), her bosses and other shit too boring to mention. She had the nerve to tell me I was too fat, and that I had to lose weight because I was costing too much for my insurance premium...all true, BTW. But, her timing, (she did it in front of the office manager leading to my loss of face), not to mention her decibel level were a little hard to take. Don't get me wrong. I love my job. I love my students, they love me and I'm extremely good at what I do, which is why she can never fire me. I love most of my colleagues. And, of course I love living here. But, not all is perfect in LOS.

Still, I know I need to find another outlet (maybe I should just slap the *****) and tone down the rhetoric considerably.

I often joke that I date really young TGs, not just for the obvious reasons, but because if I finally marry one, by the time she's my age, I'll be dead and won't have to put up with a middle-aged, menopausal, psycho Thai woman.

Welcome to online therapy OTH. Is there anything else you want to tell us- to get off your chest?

I don't know if you ever watched Star Trek, maybe you can't get it in LOS but there was one episode where Spok's dad, Sarek, was suffering from a disease and he lost the Vulcan ability to withold his emotions!

I don't think you are Vulcan (but you seemed to dislike the human bit!), but you are certainally letting everyone know your emotions. Keep it up, because inside your head you probably have loads of useful stuff that you have never told us about life in LOS and how it really is, not just how people want us to think it is.

Old Thai Hand
10-27-06, 19:20
I don't know if you ever watched Star Trek, maybe you can't get it in LOS but there was one episode where Spok's dad, Sarek, was suffering from a disease and he lost the Vulcan ability to withold his emotions!

I don't think you are Vulcan (but you seemed to dislike the human bit.


I'll think about if I have anything left to share. But, my experiences, particularly those in on-line dating, although actually quite interesting for the regular expat living here are of little value for the monger. So, I don't think anyone would want to hear about them, other than to perhaps live vicariously through my experiences. But, I think guys here want to know what's possible for them, not what the other guy has that they can't have.




Live long and prosper.

Old Trekkie Hand

Retired Army
10-29-06, 07:18
I often joke that I date really young TGs, not just for the obvious reasons, but because if I finally marry one, by the time she's my age, I'll be dead and won't have to put up with a middle-aged, menopausal, psycho Thai woman.


Good plan, I never looked at it that way. I went through menopause with a White Western Witch and won't ever do it again.

Petemcc
11-06-06, 10:50
I could have sworn I posted this yesterday but it didn't come up!

Frequently, I see Issan girls mentioned, like they were the only WGs in LOS. Is this trueish? A quick net search for the Thai unknowledgables like me reveals that it is a poor province in the NE of Thailand.

Is the implication that most WGs in Bk or Pats come from Issan as they are so poor and agriculture is the only employment?

Is there any sort of discrimination against people from Issan by other Thais? It would help me greatly if these questions could be answered.

Also, dark skinned Thai girls, they are around, but not in huge numbers. Where are they from? Do they suffer discrimination from other Thais?

Is Thai society culturally or racially biased against others or does the Bhuddist nature of the society mean that they are pretty tolerant?

Answers to all these questions, as I said above, would be helpful. I went to LOS the first time being pretty ignorant of its culture and customs, yeah, OK, very ignorant, and next time I go there I would like to be a bit more aware not only about Thais' general attitudes, but the backgrounds of WGs.

Many thanks

Pete

Old Thai Hand
11-06-06, 12:04
I could have sworn I posted this yesterday but it didn't come up!

Frequently, I see Issan girls mentioned, like they were the only WGs in LOS. Is this trueish? A quick net search for the Thai unknowledgables like me reveals that it is a poor province in the NE of Thailand.

Is the implication that most WGs in Bk or Pats come from Issan as they are so poor and agriculture is the only employment?

Is there any sort of discrimination against people from Issan by other Thais? It would help me greatly if these questions could be answered.

Also, dark skinned Thai girls, they are around, but not in huge numbers. Where are they from? Do they suffer discrimination from other Thais?

Is Thai society culturally or racially biased against others or does the Bhuddist nature of the society mean that they are pretty tolerant?

Answers to all these questions, as I said above, would be helpful. I went to LOS the first time being pretty ignorant of its culture and customs, yeah, OK, very ignorant, and next time I go there I would like to be a bit more aware not only about Thais' general attitudes, but the backgrounds of WGs.

Many thanks

Pete


Pete

All of this has been written about before in great depth by me. I have been taken to task in heated debates for being classist or racist, and perhaps my rather strident approach to this topic has come across that way, I will confess.

If you don't want wade through all of that in a search, I will be the first to answer you from my POV about your questions.

The vast majority of WGs (although by no means all) are from Isaan because it is the most impoverished part of the country and agriculture, in most cases doesn't even begin to be a sustainable source of income for many Isaan families.

The first thing you have to understand is that Isaan people are ethnically Lao or Khmer not Thai. There first language is either Isaan-Lao and to a much smaller extent, Isaan-Khmer. People in Khorat (Nakhon Ratchasima) usually viewed as the gateway to Isaan speak a completely different dialect specific to that city. So, when you are in a bar and you hear these girls speaking, they are most likely speaking Isaan, not Thai.

Many, particularly in the south of Isaan (principally Buriram and Surin) have quite dark skin and because of this are viewed as ugly by most Thais from the central plains around Bangkok, and in the north. People in the central region are ethnically Thai and people in the north are Lanna-Thai. In the south, are a mixture of Thai, Thai-Chinese, Thai-Malay and Thai-Indian. Included in the central and northern eithnic mix, of course are mixed Thais predominately Thai-Chinese, who form the economic elite of the country, but not always the social elite, which is reserved for the old Thai families. However, in most cases both the ethnic Thais and mixed Thais look disparagingly upon most Isaan people, because of their appearance, their poverty, their ethnicity and their culture. Thais don't consider Isaan people true Thais. They are often referred to by Thais in a bastardized, insulting use of the Isaan word "Bugsider" which the Thais mean as "village idiot", but which in Isaan actually means someone quite simple or innocent and is meant as a term of endearment.
Thais view Isaan people as the lower class and they are often treated with discrimination. Most low-end service jobs, factory jobs etc. are filled by Isaan people.
Ironically, a good deal of the food that Thais love, the music, comedy and entertainment that they enjoy and the customs that they adhere to often come from Isaan. Such is the hypocricy of Thais.
Thailand is a very strict heirarchy of social class based partially on wealth and partially on ethnicity. It's all about status and who you are and what you have. Like many places in the world the upper classes are divided into new money and old money. The old money tends to be the true Thai families and the new money tends to be the Thai-Chinese. But, obviously there has been a lot of cross-over in the last several hundred years between these two groups. They control a good deal of the country's wealth and hold all the power.
There is a solid middle-class that is the backbone of the country upon which a lot of day-to-day commerce depends and then below them are people from Isaan, who are the workers.

Thais will often ask why Farang like dark-skinned Isaan girls. So, as a visitor you are already condemned by your association with WGs, because they will most likely be these dark-skinned Isaan girls that Thais think are ugly and what makes matters worse will be immediately identified as prostitutes because of their appearance and their association with you. It's a lose-lose situation only if you care what Thais think about you during your short visit here. Otherwise, it's really not worth worrying about.

The most important thing to remember is to be polite, remain low-key in your endeavors and you won't go wrong during your visit.

Petemcc
11-06-06, 13:03
Pete

All of this has been written about before in great depth by me. I have been taken to task in heated debates for being classist or racist, and perhaps my rather strident approach to this topic has come across that way, I will confess.

If you don't want wade through all of that in a search, I will be the first to answer you from my POV about your questions.

Thanks so much, a very detailed yet concise insight into the subject. Now I understand the 'mai'.I take it than an Issan person will never get one in the rest of Thailand?

I suppose Thailand suffers from racism like everywhere else-sad. I will make it my duty the next time I am across to BF a nice dark skinned girl and maybe in my own sad way make her feel human for 8 hours- that sounds very patronising I suppose but it isn't meant to be.

Yep, I'll certainally keep my head low and try to respect their culture while I am there. I take my hat off to you mate, living in the west is complicated enough, but you have your work cut out there.
Pete

Old Thai Hand
11-06-06, 16:31
I will make it my duty the next time I am across to BF a nice dark skinned girl and maybe in my own sad way make her feel human for 8 hours- that sounds very patronising I suppose but it isn't meant to be.

I didn't mean to make it sound that Isaan people suffer horrible persecution at the hands of the Thais. Afterall, it is Thailand. So, it's not very overt. I'm sure the BG of your choice feels quite "human" 99.999999% of the time, especially when she's with her friends and certainly back home on familiar turf.

What I would suggest is don't make the mistake of a lot of Farang and haul her to Emporium or Paragon shopping or for lunch. She'll feel uncomfortable in such HiSo bastions and people will stare at you. Eat Isaan food or whatever with her on the street or if you want to take her to a mall, or whatever shopping etc., take her to MBK or better yet to Chatuchak. It'll be cheaper for you and she'll enjoy it much more.

If you want to splash out a bit on real Isaan type food in an restaurant, take her to Vientienne Kitchen on Sukhumvit soi 36. The food will be what she likes and they even have Isaan singing and dancing.

Oh...by 'mai' do you mean the 'wai' greeting? Of course an Isaan person would get a wai from someone younger than them, and depending on status, would get one from another Thai. There are actually many Isaan people who are not farmers, nor poor. My GF is a case in point. Her father is a mid-level government official and her brothers are cops in BKK. Her family own 2 cars, don't live on a farm, but in town and don't even have a buffalo...LOL

Petemcc
11-07-06, 04:57
I didn't mean to make it sound that Isaan people suffer horrible persecution at the hands of the Thais.

Oh...by 'mai' do you mean the 'wai' greeting? Of course an Isaan person would get a wai from someone younger than them, and depending on status, would get one from another Thai. There are actually many Isaan people who are not farmers, nor poor. My GF is a case in point. Her father is a mid-level government official and her brothers are cops in BKK. Her family own 2 cars, don't live on a farm, but in town and don't even have a buffalo...LOL

OTH. First of all thanks again. Second, I did mean wai, but either drunk fingers or a stupid brain made me type mai- that's a questioning word from my limited memory and Thai vocab.Silly me

I am certainally becoming more aware of things each time you post something, but I don't think I'll ever be staying in Bk, so I'll have to find a suitable location to take a girl in Pattaya. I am sure I will get many suggestions.

Pete

Old Thai Hand
11-07-06, 12:57
I am certainally becoming more aware of things each time you post something, but I don't think I'll ever be staying in Bk, so I'll have to find a suitable location to take a girl in Pattaya. I am sure I will get many suggestions.Pete

You can take her anywhere in Pattaya. She is the norm, rather than the exception there, so is not out-of-place in any local. The social class of Pattaya is decidely at the low end of the spectrum. Few if any self-respecting Thais would be caught dead in the place. So, in that respect it's a much more comfortable environment for a Farang to go out with his "date" without any disapproving looks.

Thor93
11-07-06, 13:29
What I would suggest is don't make the mistake of a lot of Farang and haul her to Emporium or Paragon shopping or for lunch.

OTH, any suggestions on what to do when my Bangkok born and bred TGF hauls me off to the Emporium or Paragon? I am the one that feels uncomfortable going there due to what it is going to do to my wallet.

Giotto
11-07-06, 16:58
OTH, any suggestions on what to do when my Bangkok born and bred TGF hauls me off to the Emporium or Paragon? I am the one that feels uncomfortable going there due to what it is going to do to my wallet.Thor93,

If you don't like to go to Emporium/Paragon just give her your wallet and stay in the hotel...:)


Giotto

Thor93
11-07-06, 18:43
Thor93,

If you don't like to go to Emporium/Paragon just give her your wallet and stay in the hotel...:)


Giotto

At least when I am there, I can sort of say no to some of the stuff. I guess it is my own fault for having a TGF who has expensive tastes.

And after she discovered my last indiscretions, there is no way she will leave me alone in the hotel.

Petemcc
11-08-06, 02:42
You can take her anywhere in Pattaya. She is the norm, rather than the exception there, so is not out-of-place in any local. The social class of Pattaya is decidely at the low end of the spectrum. Few if any self-respecting Thais would be caught dead in the place. So, in that respect it's a much more comfortable environment for a Farang to go out with his "date" without any disapproving looks.

That is good news. So I shouldn't really have to worry about the culture or customs in pattaya then seeing as everyone is 'at the low end of the spectrum'. It sounds like it was purpose built for ignorant western men.

Old Thai Hand
11-08-06, 03:33
That is good news. So I shouldn't really have to worry about the culture or customs in pattaya then seeing as everyone is 'at the low end of the spectrum'. It sounds like it was purpose built for ignorant western men.

Absolutely! That is Pattaya's 'raison d'etre'. It hasn't been culturally Thai in 30 years since the end of the Vietnam War. Except for the Thais living there, it just as well could be a crappy seaside resort anywhere in the Western world. There are blatant insults to Thai culture on a daily basis in the place. In fact the whole place is an affront to Thai culture. So, I wouldn't worry about being sensitive to proper Thai cultural behavior. It's a resort that caters to low-end Farang and cheap, low-end tour groups from Russia, Eastern Europe, China and Korea. I'm not implying you're low-end. I'm just stating that this is its target market.
Although I generally hate the place quite a bit, I occasionally go for a bit of anonymous R&R, which is extremely difficult for me to enjoy in Bangkok. It's easy to blend in there.

Petemcc
11-08-06, 10:51
Absolutely! That is Pattaya's 'raison d'etre'. It hasn't been culturally Thai in 30 years since the end of the Vietnam War. Except for the Thais living there, it just as well could be a crappy seaside resort anywhere in the Western world. There are blatant insults to Thai culture on a daily basis in the place. In fact the whole place is an affront to Thai culture. So, I wouldn't worry about being sensitive to proper Thai cultural behavior. It's a resort that caters to low-end Farang and cheap, low-end tour groups from Russia, Eastern Europe, China and Korea. I'm not implying you're low-end. I'm just stating that this is its target market.
Although I generally hate the place quite a bit, I occasionally go for a bit of anonymous R&R, which is extremely difficult for me to enjoy in Bangkok. It's easy to blend in there.

Ah, so it's easy for you to blend in amongst low-end Farang and low-end tour groups. Dear oh dear OTH, first of all you pour your heart out to the forum, even declaring that you sponsered a girl, and now you are saying that you wouldn't look out of place in Pattaya. I hope you're not in some sort of melt down caused by having too many young Thai girls running around you every day.

I suppose there isn't much need for this thread anymore as far as Pattaya is concerned, so if I have any more questions, I'll specifically not mention Pattaya, the Blackpool of Thailand!
All the best, and have one for me.
Pete

Old Thai Hand
11-08-06, 11:18
Ah, so it's easy for you to blend in amongst low-end Farang and low-end tour groups. Dear oh dear OTH, first of all you pour your heart out to the forum, even declaring that you sponsered a girl, and now you are saying that you wouldn't look out of place in Pattaya. I hope you're not in some sort of melt down caused by having too many young Thai girls running around you every day.

I suppose there isn't much need for this thread anymore as far as Pattaya is concerned, so if I have any more questions, I'll specifically not mention Pattaya, the Blackpool of Thailand!
All the best, and have one for me.
Pete

I'm Farang. Therefore, I automatically blend in. Thais in Pattaya can't differentiate. We all look the same to them. However, I don't have any tattoos. So, that probably differentiates me a little. I don't get the point of your sarcasm, however.

I will say this, though. You asked questions about Thai culture and seemed to express interest in it, then stated that you only go to Pattaya. If it's true that you only go to Pattaya, then you have no real interest in Thai culture because there's none to be had there.

Petemcc
11-08-06, 13:35
I'm Farang. Therefore, I automatically blend in. Thais in Pattaya can't differentiate. We all look the same to them. However, I don't have any tattoos. So, that probably differentiates me a little. I don't get the point of your sarcasm, however.

I will say this, though. You asked questions about Thai culture and seemed to express interest in it, then stated that you only go to Pattaya. If it's true that you only go to Pattaya, then you have no real interest in Thai culture because there's none to be had there.

The point of my sarcasm. Well you are clearly a very knowledgable and opinionated man and you have made clear your feelings about Pattaya. It seems as though you have dismissed the entire Thai population of Pattaya as lacking their own culture. You have run the place down, yet you are willing to pay the occasional visit, presumably for sex, knowing that one of your students of friends won't see you. I just find it slightly ironic that you would visit such a place, hence my attempt at sarcasm.

Before you denegrated Pattaya, I was not aware that it was not representative of Thai culture. The reason why I asked the questions was because I wanted to know how I could make my visits smoother and more enjoyable, particularly in the company of some Thai girl. It seems, as I have stated that there is little point in mentioning Thai culture and Pattaya in the same posting.
I'm not a rich man, and I haven't a lot of time on my hands, so when I visit Thailand again it will unfortunately only be as a sex tourist, and Pattaya is obviously the most concentrated area for such tourism.
I genuinely did want to learn a bit about the culture, for my own selfish reasons and for what its worth I have found some of what you said helpful and even if Pattaya is not the place to practice what I have learnt, I'll do it anyway. One never knows, perhaps there is some culture in Pattaya.

Giotto
11-08-06, 14:38
...Before you denegrated Pattaya, I was not aware that it was not representative of Thai culture. The reason why I asked the questions was because I wanted to know how I could make my visits smoother and more enjoyable, particularly in the company of some Thai girl. It seems, as I have stated that there is little point in mentioning Thai culture and Pattaya in the same posting. ...
Petemcc,

I also think that Pattaya is not really representative for Thai culture. A visit in Sukhothai or Chiang Mai would bring you closer to Thai culture than a visit in Pattaya. You can for sure find a girl in Pattaya who knows this areas and can show you around.

There is for sure some culture in Pattaya, but it is easier to find elsewhere in Thailand.


Giotto

Old Thai Hand
11-08-06, 15:17
One never knows, perhaps there is some culture in Pattaya.

Obviously Thais that are not directly involved with Farang would still practice their culture. If you visited areas like Bang Lamung, just outside Pattaya, you could actually still see Thai fisherman going about their business as they've always done. But, that's hardly why you're going.

Like many places in the world overrun with foreign visitors, Pattaya and the Thais that live their have been corrupted and a good deal of their culture bastardized. A good many of the so-called culture shows there are insulting, but are meant to please the tourists, not be authentic.

I don't particulary visit Pattaya for sex. Why would I? I can get plenty in BKK. I visit there because I have a few friends there, and it's close to Bkk; easy for a quick getaway. I usually go with a couple of friends, if I go at all.
It's true that I don't like a lot that goes on there. But, if I go there with friends, it can be a bit of modest fun for a couple of days. There are other things to do besides go to bars. Although, that's certainly some of what we do when we're there, just for something slightly different than what's on offer in BKK. Also, my friends and I get a good laugh out of watching tourists make complete asses of themselves. The nightly fights between drunken yobs is especially good for a laugh ot two.

Why I responded to you originally was a genuine desire to give you information about Thai culture and proper behavior when you're here to help you. I didn't realize that you would just be in Pattaya. However, my recommendation to be low-key and polite still stands. That will still get you a lot further in the long run, especially in a place like Pattaya where the norm is to be a badly behaved, ill-mannered, trouble-making low-life. If you're a real gentleman and are very good to whatever girl you're with, she'll be good to you. It sounds simple. But, you'd be surprised how badly some of the guys visitng Pattaya treat the girls.

Opebo
11-08-06, 17:28
I hope no one alters their travel plans or their behaviour because of this 'culture' nonsense. Thai culture, like all the others, is oppressive, stultifying, and has as its purpose to make slaves of some people for some other people. It is only when we begin to question tradition skeptically that we become free - and this is what is done in Pattaya on a daily basis, and in a spectacular scale. Men escaping the horrors of marriage, monogamy, and prudery, and women escaping their indoctrination into enhedonia and servitude. It is a joyful place, if ever there was one!

Of course, it is under massive attack by the Forces of Social Control. Visit soon and help to undermine all our ugly 'cultures'.

Giotto
11-08-06, 17:58
I hope no one alters their travel plans or their behaviour because of this 'culture' nonsense. Thai culture, like all the others, is oppressive, stultifying, and has as its purpose to make slaves of some people for some other people. ...Opebo,

Do me a favour and write you bullshit nonsense somewhere else. There are enough internet forums, and enough other threads.

In this forum (Giotto's forum) we respect the Thai culture and tradition; and especially I do that because I am a guest in this country.

You are entitled to your own opinion, if you don't understand the Thais and you don't appreciate the Thai culture. But you are NOT appreciated to write this shit here in this forum!

If you decide to go ahead posting nonsense like this here in this thread I will delete all your posts without further notice.


Giotto

Traveler1234
11-08-06, 18:07
Opebo,

Do me a favour and write you bullshit nonsense somewhere else. There are enough internet forums, and enough other threads.
If you decide to go ahead posting nonsense like this here in this thread I will delete all your posts without further notice.
Giotto

OK boss - time to start a new thread called Banned Members!

;)

Petemcc
11-09-06, 02:30
ot two.

Why I responded to you originally was a genuine desire to give you information about Thai culture and proper behavior when you're here to help you. I didn't realize that you would just be in Pattaya. However, my recommendation to be low-key and polite still stands. That will still get you a lot further in the long run, especially in a place like Pattaya where the norm is to be a badly behaved, ill-mannered, trouble-making low-life. If you're a real gentleman and are very good to whatever girl you're with, she'll be good to you. It sounds simple. But, you'd be surprised how badly some of the guys visitng Pattaya treat the girls.

Thanks OTH. I am genuinely greatful for the advice you have given. I appologise for the inference that you just go to Pattaya for sex- I shouldn't have jumped to that conclusion.

I was going to say that it surprises me that some men treat the girls badly, but then I realised that there are many forms of illtreatment, like a certain 'gentleman' who is not welcome here.

Some of the things yuo ahve said have surprised me, for example tipping. I really thought it was part of Thai culture, especially how they always manage to bring you a single 20B note in change which somehow stands out from the rest of the change and almost says 'tip, I'm a tip!' I was not aware about the use of the 'wai' ( not drunk this time) and although I have never used it, I honestly thought that there was a reply to a wai, like in other cultures where gestures are acknowledged. So you see, even though Pattaya may be culturally lacking, I have nonetheless learnt important things about the very basics of Thai life.
Thanks

Old Thai Hand
11-09-06, 03:21
opebo,

do me a favour and write you bullshit nonsense somewhere else. there are enough internet forums, and enough other threads.

in this forum (giotto's forum) we respect the thai culture and tradition; and especially i do that because i am a guest in this country

giotto

finally. you've done what jackson should have done with this guy ages ago. o**** is a dangerous person, with dangerous attitudes. he should be banned from the forum completely. if only he could somehow be banned from thailand.

Old Thai Hand
11-09-06, 04:17
thanks oth. i am genuinely greatful for the advice you have given. i appologise for the inference that you just go to pattaya for sex- i shouldn't have jumped to that conclusion.

i was going to say that it surprises me that some men treat the girls badly, but then i realised that there are many forms of illtreatment, like a certain 'gentleman' who is not welcome here.

some of the things yuo ahve said have surprised me, for example tipping. i really thought it was part of thai culture, especially how they always manage to bring you a single 20b note in change which somehow stands out from the rest of the change and almost says 'tip, i'm a tip!' i was not aware about the use of the 'wai' ( not drunk this time) and although i have never used it, i honestly thought that there was a reply to a wai, like in other cultures where gestures are acknowledged. so you see, even though pattaya may be culturally lacking, i have nonetheless learnt important things about the very basics of thai life.
thanks


most of what i have written against pattaya in the past has had a lot to do with the mongers there, not the thais. the girls, for the most part are ok, and more often than not, not as hard-edged as a lot of the bgs in bkk, which is surprising given the the volume of traffic they have to endure. although i've been somewhat harsh in the past about bgs, the truth is that i realize that a lot of them are just trying to get by and do the best they can for themselves and their families.
ill-treatment of these girls does come in many forms from the most extreme (murder, all to frequent in pattaya, unfortunately) to simply bad attitudes like those expressed by o****. guys like him are all too common here, viewing the girls, as they do, as "meat" and a mere commodity. in one of his posts, mr. o actually advocated keeping thailand poor and backward, so as to be able to continue to force more and more girls into the business to supply cheap sex for him and those like him. one wonders what kind of experiences a person like o**** has with these girls, when he shows such disrespect and utter disregard for them as people. one wonders and worries more what kind of experience these girls have at the hands of o****.

re: tipping

thais expect tips from farang because they know it's the norm in our countries. obviously, some farang long ago started tipping and now the thais expect it.
you should also know, however that thais themselves rarely tip, or if they do very little. i've been out with rich thais for dinner and the bill might come to 10,000 or more and they'll leave 20 baht. they rarely tip in bars, never tip taxi drivers or anyone else, for that matter. i usually tip everyone in the service industry because i've "been there" and i know what lousy salaries (except at livingstone's...lol) they make. btw, my first (brief) job in thailand was as a 4,000 baht/month bartender in krabi. it's a wonderful location for a job, but it was a really terrible salary. luckily i had my sabbatical salary coming from home to support me. otherwise, i would have had an incredibly hard time. some people here support families on only that much (or even less). that's why i always tip these people.

re: the wai

it's been written about a lot here. you could do a search or google it, for that matter. anyway, there's little chance that you as a tourist would ever need to use it. you shouldn't wai the girls, the bar staff, the receptionist at your hotel, the waiter/waitress at the restaurant or anyone else you're likely to encounter. they are all below you in status and don't expect a wai and would think it funny if you did it. for example, my students wai me on a daily basis because i am their teacher and therefore superior to them. i never wai them. i wai colleagues, but usually wait for them to wai me first as i am older than many of them. i wai my boss, first because she's higher in status than me. she will wai me back out of respect for my position as a teacher and because i am her colleague.
i was on a plane once to chiang rai and a farang couple wai-ed the flight attendant when they were leaving the plane. she looked startled when they did it. as i walked up the ramp with them, i explained that you "don't wai the help". we in the west are rather laissez faire and egalitarian with hand-shakes and greetings of any sort. but, here the wai, like so many other things is ritualistic and has many layers and permutations and therefore is best left un-offered by the visitor rather than doing it inappropriately.

Petemcc
11-09-06, 10:33
most of what i have written against pattaya in the past has had a lot to do with the mongers there, not the thais. the girls, for the most part are ok, and more often than not, not as hard-edged as a lot of the bgs in bkk, which is surprising given the the volume of traffic they have to endure. although i've been somewhat harsh in the past about bgs, the truth is that i realize that a lot of them are just trying to get by and do the best they can for themselves and their families.
ill-treatment of these girls does come in many forms from the most extreme (murder, all to frequent in pattaya, unfortunately) to simply bad attitudes like those expressed by o****. guys like him are all too common here, viewing the girls, as they do, as "meat" and a mere commodity. in one of his posts, mr. o actually advocated keeping thailand poor and backward, so as to be able to continue to force more and more girls into the business to supply cheap sex for him and those like him. one wonders what kind of experiences a person like o**** has with these girls, when he shows such disrespect and utter disregard for them as people. one wonders and worries more what kind of experience these girls have at the hands of o****.

re: tipping

thais expect tips from farang because they know it's the norm in our countries. obviously, some farang long ago started tipping and now the thais expect it.
you should also know, however that thais themselves rarely tip, or if they do very little. i've been out with rich thais for dinner and the bill might come to 10,000 or more and they'll leave 20 baht. they rarely tip in bars, never tip taxi drivers or anyone else, for that matter. i usually tip everyone in the service industry because i've "been there" and i know what lousy salaries (except at livingstone's...lol) they make. btw, my first (brief) job in thailand was as a 4,000 baht/month bartender in krabi. it's a wonderful location for a job, but it was a really terrible salary. luckily i had my sabbatical salary coming from home to support me. otherwise, i would have had an incredibly hard time. some people here support families on only that much (or even less). that's why i always tip these people.

re: the wai

it's been written about a lot here. you could do a search or google it, for that matter. anyway, there's little chance that you as a tourist would ever need to use it. you shouldn't wai the girls, the bar staff, the receptionist at your hotel, the waiter/waitress at the restaurant or anyone else you're likely to encounter. they are all below you in status and don't expect a wai and would think it funny if you did it. for example, my students wai me on a daily basis because i am their teacher and therefore superior to them. i never wai them. i wai colleagues, but usually wait for them to wai me first as i am older than many of them. i wai my boss, first because she's higher in status than me. she will wai me back out of respect for my position as a teacher and because i am her colleague.
i was on a plane once to chiang rai and a farang couple wai-ed the flight attendant when they were leaving the plane. she looked startled when they did it. as i walked up the ramp with them, i explained that you "don't wai the help". we in the west are rather laissez faire and egalitarian with hand-shakes and greetings of any sort. but, here the wai, like so many other things is ritualistic and has many layers and permutations and therefore is best left un-offered by the visitor rather than doing it inappropriately.

mate, i started writing a reply, but it was so long as to be boring. i agree with what you say, and anyone who mistreats the girls should be exposed and shot. similarly, the tipping- not par for the course in the uk or australia, but as you say, these poor people earn so little, what's 20b?

pete

Giotto
11-09-06, 12:24
...You should also know, however that Thais themselves rarely tip, or if they do very little. I've been out with rich Thais for dinner and the bill might come to 10,000 or more and they'll leave 20 baht. They rarely tip in bars, never tip taxi drivers or anyone else, for that matter. I usually tip everyone in the service industry because I've "been there" and I know what lousy salaries (except at Livingstone's...LOL) they make. ...Old Thai Hand,

correct, we are paying VERY lousy :) !


Giotto

Old Thai Hand
11-09-06, 13:32
Old Thai Hand,

correct, we are paying VERY lousy :) !


Giotto

Do U need a bartender? =-)

Giotto
11-09-06, 15:56
Do U need a bartender? =-)Old Thai Hand,

Sorry, I don't hire low life, but if I one day open a beer bar in Pattaya I will contact you and offer you the job :) !


Giotto

Old Thai Hand
11-10-06, 01:00
Old Thai Hand,
Sorry, I don't hire low life, but if I one day open a beer bar in Pattaya I will contact you and offer you the job :) !
Giotto



Ok, I'll get some tattoos, a Singha tank top, some shiny shorts and some shitty flipflops and I'm your man for the job.

Petemcc
11-10-06, 08:30
Ok, I'll get some tattoos, a Singha tank top, some shiny shorts and some shitty flipflops and I'm your man for the job.

Giotto, hire me- in about 3 years time. Then I'll be a qualified nurse. You buy a bar in Pattaya and hire me as a bartender/bar boy/nurse. I can do all the swabs for your girls and make sure they pass their regular services. OTH has taught me all the culture I need for Pattaya.
Imagine your marketing campaign. How many bars would have an onsight nurse incase a punter has a thromby, or just wants his dick checked.
All I'd ask, in addition to servicing the girls, is a small wage, some accommodation and all the beer I can drink.
By the way, I am not low life either, I have no tats, and I don't look bad in a pair of shorts and singlet. I speak English ( well I say I do, others wonder sometimes), a fair bit of French, even a wee bit of German, and I was learning Chinese. OK, not a lot of need for the Chinese, but I could learn Thai-same sort of language.
I would be an asset to your new bar.
My small wage- about 60K Australian a year- nothing to a man like you, or for a man with my qualifications.
Do you want my CV?

Pete

PS You supply the Visa- still a good deal

Giotto
11-10-06, 08:55
...
My small wage- about 60K Australian a year- nothing to a man like you, or for a man with my qualifications.
...Petemcc,

I see - you are highly qualified, especially as bar boy with your language skills (though I don't know whether I really want to run a gay bar).

As initially mentioned we are paying VERY LOUSY, and I assume you simply made a small typo when you wrote about 60 k Australia $ - a yearly salary of 60 k THB would be ok :) .


Giotto

Petemcc
11-10-06, 09:04
Petemcc,

I see - you are highly qualified, especially as bar boy with your language skills (though I don't know whether I really want to run a gay bar).

As initially mentioned we are paying VERY LOUSY, and I assume you simply made a small typo when you wrote about 60 k Australia $ - a yearly salary of 60 k THB would be ok :) .


Giotto

60kTHB? Mate, I am 42 years old, 1.75m high, weigh 85 Kg, have a decent body and a good personality and am as straight as the next man in Pattaya ( and that is obviously a subjective thing with all those LBs around). However I could earn 60K THB in one night here just sucking guys off, not that I want to! ( Did I mention the most beautiful blue eyes you have ever seen?)

Pay peanuts you get monkeys. Pay a decent wage you get better service. Your hotel hasn't rock bottom prices because you are an astute man and realise that quality attracts quality. And not a gay bar, I don't want to fuck men ( remember that Pattaya subjective thing however), but imagine having a bar man who some ugly slag with some horny farang could take out, and who would be a bouncer, and a nurse, and take care of the girls. For fucks sake man, you're a business man, see an opportunity when it arises, otherwise I'll have to sell my services to someone in Zimbabwe!
Pete

Giotto
11-10-06, 09:10
60kTHB? Mate, I am 42 years old, 1.75m high, weigh 85 Kg, ... Petemcc,

That's it then, 42 years old, 1.75 m and 85 kg - overweight already with age 42 . How will you look like in 3 years?

I was just about to raise my offer to 65 k THB - but I reconsidered :) . See you in Zimbabwe then.


Giotto

Petemcc
11-10-06, 10:05
Petemcc,

That's it then, 42 years old, 1.75 m and 85 kg - overweight already with age 42 . How will you look like in 3 years?

I was just about to raise my offer to 65 k THB - but I reconsidered :) . See you in Zimbabwe then.


Giotto

Giotto, darling

Have you ever played competitive sport? Rugby for example. At 1.75 and 85Kg, the outdated insurance and medical BMI stats may say I am overweight, but I have 8% bodyfat. The rest is muscle. If you can find anyone in any international rugby team with a BMI less than about 28, then I'll work for you for free. FYI, last year I weighed 105Kg, I lost 23, and people said I looked Ill! I have a 4-pack- can't manage the 6 and am fitter than the average 20 year old. I could bounce a tatood fuckwit ov every wall in your bar, tie the **** up in a million poses and then treat his wounds. BUT I am not there as a barfine, that is merely an optional extra. I am there as a bartender who will be there when all your girls are off getting laid. I'll take care of the place. I will also service your girls, rub the condom in a petri dish and get the results to you ASAP so you can report a clean bill of health and be sure that they provide the best service.
My wife reckons I get better with age. I haven't any wrinkles, well not on my face. Don't stereotype! You are so close to closing this deal, don't let prejudices cloud your judgement. Admit it, you'd hate to see me working in Zimbabwe. How many bars have you seen in Pattaya with a spunky, hunky, educated, witty barman who will do everything your bar needs.
Your time is running out. Don't say I didn't warn you!

Giotto
11-10-06, 10:48
...
Have you ever played competitive sport? Petemcc,

I sexercise sometimes.

Rugby for example. ...No, my IQ was not high enough for that sports.

At 1.75 and 85Kg, the outdated insurance and medical BMI stats may say I am overweight, but I have 8% bodyfat. The rest is muscle. If you can find anyone in any international rugby team with a BMI less than about 28, then I'll work for you for free. FYI, last year I weighed 105Kg, I lost 23, and people said I looked Ill! To be honest, I am not looking to find one in an international rugby team - let's talk about massage parlours.

...My wife reckons I get better with age. ...Don't really get the message - does that mean that you were so bad as a younger man?

...Admit it, you'd hate to see me working in Zimbabwe.To be honest, I was never there. And I doubt that I will go there within the next years.

... How many bars have you seen in Pattaya with a spunky, hunky, educated, witty barman who will do everything your bar needs. ...None. The reason might be that I never go to Pattaya.

And then I found this in the Thailand Fight Club:

...I'm lucky because I am an alcoholic so every night, or evening, or morning-depending on what shift I am on is Friday night to me ...Man,

An alcoholic as a bartender??? :D:D:D


Giotto

Petemcc
11-10-06, 10:58
Petemcc,

I sexercise sometimes.
No, my IQ was not high enough for that sports.
To be honest, I am not looking to find one in an international rugby team - let's talk about massage parlours.
Don't really get the message - does that mean that you were so bad as a younger man?
To be honest, I was never there. And I doubt that I will go there within the next years.
None. The reason might be that I never go to Pattaya.

And then I found this in the Thailand Fight Club:
Man,

An alcoholic as a bartender??? :D:D:D


Giotto

It was worth a try, see you in Zimbabwe, or if I fail there, Chad or somewhere!
Cheers
Pete

Retired Army
11-19-06, 14:53
finally. you've done what jackson should have done with this guy ages ago. o**** is a dangerous person, with dangerous attitudes. he should be banned from the forum completely. if only he could somehow be banned from thailand.

read what this guy wrote in the thailand fight club about drunk driving.

Giotto
11-20-06, 00:16
Read what this guy wrote in the Thailand Fight Club about drunk driving.Yes, shocking.

But obviously (and for understandable reasons) an internet forum like this does not give users the option to reasonably deal with such a problem. And that gives those guys the publicity they want.

To completely ignore his writings is in my POV the only chance to get rid of him.


Giotto

Giotto
12-17-06, 05:59
Thai culture and customs – a thread in Giotto’s forum on this board. Sounds too serious. Now here the bridge to the naughty nightlife customs of Thailands bar scene.

Some weeks ago I was sitting close to the swimming pool, my standard table, and observed two girls walking the way from the Sports Lounge entrance to the main entrance of Livingstone’s ( as far as I could see them ). They were walking behind each other, and the front girl had a small container in her hand from which she took a unknown substance (Salt? Sugar? Rice? Sand?) and spread it all over the way. Not huge quantities, more as a symbolic act.

Next day same procedure in the early evening. I realized that Livingstone’s had now its own daily Good-Business Ceremony. The idea behind it is to pave the way for customers to come in, to have good business in the bar…no! I don’t think that the girls identify themselves so much with the bar – they intend to have a successful hunting night for themselves, to find a customer for that night who gives them everything they want (food, drinks, good sex – and lots of money).

Long time ago I discovered that small altar fixed on one of the columns of our Sports Lounge. It looked like those sockets you find everywhere in Thailand, altars for Rama 5, that so much loved king, who drank brandy btw., and gets every day his fresh food and brandy. We of course have such an altar corner in the bar, and this socket must be fixed very high close to the ceiling, to symbolize how high this king is above everybody – how much he is still loved and respected.

This smaller altar was fixed lower, nicely decorated with flowers and statues – AND A GIANT WOODEN PENIS with gold decoration on it. If somebody now knows Thai temples, and the Buddha statues and pictures there, where the Thais fix their paper-thin gold plates as a symbol of love and respect – our bar girls do the same with a huge wooden cock.

That reminded me on a procedure I have observed years ago in a bar in Soi Cowboy. All girls lined up in a queue starting at the door of the bar, spread their legs … and the mamasan threw a wooden penis through the line of spread legs. It did not reach the door, so the girls picked it up and threw it further until it reached the door and ended up on the street – then the queue resolved and the penis was brought back to his original place – a small altar close to the bigger socket of Rama 5.

Would be interesting to know what Rama 5 had said about all that :), if he still were alive .


Giotto

Old Thai Hand
12-17-06, 17:37
This smaller altar was fixed lower, nicely decorated with flowers and statues – AND A GIANT WOODEN PENIS with gold decoration on it. If somebody now knows Thai temples, and the Buddha statues and pictures there, where the Thais fix their paper-thin gold plates as a symbol of love and respect – our bar girls do the same with a huge wooden cock.
Would be interesting to know what Rama 5 had said about all that :), if he still were alive.Giotto

He'd probably understand totally.

The phallus is called a "Palad Khik", and is what is known as a Class III (meaning it needs a spell to activate it) trade talisman, used by all businesses in Thailand. Bars activate the spell by doing the ritual of dipping it in a glass of water and throwing it between the girls' legs. If you notice, when they do this, the girl throwing the phallus bends at the waist and looks between her own legs and through the legs of the other girls behind her. This is because the Thais believe that you can see a ghost if you look backwards through your splayed legs. The wooden phallus is thus meant to ward off evil spirits and bad luck, to guarantee prosperity, power, protection, fertility, and generally luck in all things. Phalluses also often worn in rows at the waste like a belt attached to an auspicioulsy knotted chord. Large ones take the form of city pillars, or the central Prang of older style temples like Wat Arun and are often a part of festivals such as the "Phii Ta Khon" in Loei, at which 'ghosts' thrust large wooden phalluses playfully at local girls dressed up in all their traditional Thai finery. It is a merging of the original Thai animist fertility symbol and "lingum" of the Hindu god Shiva and is considered by most Thais as one of the most powerful and magical symbols, which is one of the reasons you see it everywhere and in every size. To say the least, it is very important to superstitious Isaan bargirls.

BTW, the "gold plates" to which you refer are called "gold leaf" or "Tong Kam Bpleo" in Thai, and are placed on anything to bring fortune and above all, protection.

Terry Terrier
04-22-07, 02:02
I was recently in a restaurant on Soi Langsuan in Bangkok with an Issarn 'skank'. The party of Thais at the next table kept giving us dirty looks. Eventually, the girlfriend of the group leader decided to kneel on her chair to eat her food. Was she taking the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)? Her boyfriend (who we think was a cop) had a high-pitched girly laugh that I repeatedly mimicked. He had plenty of opportunities to take me to task over this, including when we all waited outside for taxis. I'd also said in a loud English voice when the girl knelt on the chair: "Is she waiting to pick rice?"

Did I have a lucky escape?

Giotto
04-22-07, 08:16
...
Did I have a lucky escape?Terry Terrier,

LOL. I have no idea :) !


Giotto

Sukhumvit Sam
05-13-07, 20:28
This is what is wonderful about Pattaya, not only for we customers, but for the poor Thai/Lao girls - it offers them a chance to escape from their horribly stultifying culture!

In many ways the joy experienced by a young Thai girl leaving the miserable boredom of village, farm, or small town to make easy money, stay up all night, and be somewhat independent is greater than that experienced by the monger escaping his own life-wasting anhedonic culture. True, most of them are still dumb enough to send money home and that sort of nonsense, but not all. And curiously - I know this is hard to believe, and I've always been a skeptic - it really seems that a few of them actually enjoy the sex!

Opebo makes an interesting point here, at the end, about hookers who enjoy the sex.

There was a big news story out of France a few years ago about a senator's wife (if I'm not mistaken) who was "caught" working daytimes in a Parisian lupanar. Compelled to make a public apology, she explained that it was her prodigious sexual appetite which drove her to do it. No other explanation, seemingly, would work: she was well provided-for, well connected, and certainly not wanting for a few pennies.

My personal view, based (to be sure) on limited but not exactly negligible experience, is that women have a MUCH harder job of "faking it" than they, or we, tend to believe.

Physiological responses, I think, are hard to fake. Correct me, readers, if I'm wrong about that.

I've personally been with sex workers who:

1) faked it all the way (but courteously)
2) faked it until instinct took over, and then either fought hard to avoid showing their pleasure, or just plain gave in and let themselves enjoy
3) didn't even try to fake it, but just "starfished" on me
4) didn't even try to fake it, but instead scowled the whole time
5) openly enjoyed it, with every physiological indication (need I elaborate?) that the pleasure was mutual
6) moved back and forth among 1 through 5, as on a very memorable occasion with a Korean FL a few years back, who scowled at me and complained about my technique vociferously, until . . . well . . . suddenly her expression was starting to change, and then she was having to avert her gaze (lest I catch a glimpse of pleasure in her eyes), and then she was fighting it, fighting it, FIGHTING it, until finally . . . smile! smile! yes! YES! YES!

In case of (5) and (6), I've occasionally been tempted to ask HER to pay me, afterwards, especially when it seemed that she'd got more out of it than I had.

Sukhumvit Sam
05-13-07, 21:16
Opebo,

Do me a favour and write you bullshit nonsense somewhere else. There are enough internet forums, and enough other threads.

In this forum (Giotto's forum) we respect the Thai culture and tradition; and especially I do that because I am a guest in this country.

You are entitled to your own opinion, if you don't understand the Thais and you don't appreciate the Thai culture. But you are NOT appreciated to write this shit here in this forum!

If you decide to go ahead posting nonsense like this here in this thread I will delete all your posts without further notice.


Giotto

Well, Giotto, with all due respect, I really have to wonder . . .

So you respect Thai culture . . .

A culture which tolerates a coup d'etat every few years with a shrug of the shoulders and a "mai ben rai." We're a democratic autocracy here in Thailand, and how dare you farang question that!

Here in Korea, the local culture involves such things as

a) brutally beating students in school

Case in point: just a few weeks ago, a teenaged student showed me his badly swollen, bruised right hand. A teacher had beat him 90 times (NINETY!) for getting an English grammar question wrong. But hey! It's Korean culture!

b) beating a dog to death, so that the adrenaline released into its bloodstream in this way tenderizes the meat, and provides an adrenaline charge

And how dare you "waygoogin" question our Korean culture! We've been doing this for centuries!

And, in fact, Korean dogs are beaten to death every day. Korean kids are beaten to the point of bruising, sometimes permanently, every day. And, in fact, foreigners who dare question this Korean way of doing things are routinely belittled for their lack of cultural sensitivity.

And, in fact, a certain Southeast Asian country which I will leave unnamed is desperately, ******** in love with its own ******* father figure. Oh, we love him so much, it's our culture. Oh, so he lets the military take away our democracy . . . oh, ah . . . you don't understand our culture. Oh, you dare criticize, oh . . . we will we PUT YOU IN JAIL! (http://www.mangosauce.com/news/jail_for_thailands_youtube_fans.php).

In sum, if "culture" can't be questioned . . . what's the point? To anything?

P.S. Don't even get me started on my own United States of America. If ever there was a culture which needed questioning . . . !

Giotto
05-14-07, 03:36
Well, Giotto, with all due respect, I really have to wonder . . .

So you respect Thai culture . . .Sukhumvit Sam,

With all due respect: you are free to wonder. But check the context which initiated my comment:

I hope no one alters their travel plans or their behaviour because of this 'culture' nonsense. Thai culture, like all the others, is oppressive, stultifying, and has as its purpose to make slaves of some people for some other people.
...
Of course, it is under massive attack by the Forces of Social Control. Visit soon and help to undermine all our ugly 'cultures'.

It stays as I wrote: I don't want to read this shit here in this forum. It can be written somewhere else.


...
And, in fact, a certain Southeast Asian country which I will leave unnamed is desperately, ******** in love with its own ****** father figure. Oh, we love him so much, it's our culture. Oh, so he lets the military take away our democracy . . . oh, ah . . . you don't understand our culture. Oh, you dare criticize, oh . . . we will we PUT YOU IN JAIL!
...
And certainly we will respect The King of Thailand in this forum. You will find your report slightly modified.

You are free to discuss Thai (and other countries) cultural differences here.

It would be interesting to discuss the phrase "lets the military take away our democracy", but this should be done in the Thai politics thread.


Giotto

Sukhumvit Sam
05-14-07, 20:42
sukhumvit sam,

with all due respect: you are free to wonder. but check the context which initiated my comment:


it stays as i wrote: i don't want to read this shit here in this forum. it can be written somewhere else.

and certainly we will respect the king of thailand in this forum. you will find your report slightly modified.

you are free to discuss thai (and other countries) cultural differences here.

it would be interesting to discuss the phrase "lets the military take away our democracy", but this should be done in the thai politics thread.


giotto
giotto,

a seeming cultural difference is that we americans tend to take our freedom quite seriously. we fought and died for it in 1776. we fought and died to say that the king of england, or the king of t---land, for that matter, is a ridiculous lunatic bastard, if we care to say so, as free, sovereign men. that's the essential thing that makes america, for all its faults, not canada, not britain, not germany, not t---land.

thailand is not free and never has been. germany, i'm sorry to have to say, is a joke of a "free country."

without freedom of speech--something signally prohibited by law both in germany and in thailand, as it is, in fact, through most of the world--there is no real freedom. only slavery.

we'll agree to differ, i suspect, on this point. and to do so amicably, i trust.

PassinThrough
05-14-07, 21:02
a seeming cultural difference is that we americans tend to take our freedom quite seriously. we fought and died for it in 1776. we fought and died to say that the king of england,

sam,

i have to strongly disagree with you here. americans did fight for freedom and we probably had it at one time but we are slowly giving it up. are you familiar with the "patriot act" that robs americans of a lot of freedoms we used to have? were you aware that bush authorized the tapping of phones and the easedropping of calls without court orders or judicial review? were you aware that bush has said that our mail can be intercepted and opened without need for a court order? do you really think there is freedom of speech and freedom of press in the united states any longer? there may be with smaller organizations and online reporting by individuals but the big news corporations really worry about money and offending people rather than reporting all the stories.

now thailand is as free as i have seen most countries. granted it is illegal to say anything bad about the king or to deface his pictures etc. and while i don't agree with those laws it is not my place to. if the thai people felt strongly about them they could force a change. in fact what i have seen of the king and his family, they are worthy of the respect they get and the people love him, so who am i to judge.

i think as an american it would be better to spend your energies fixing the problems in the united states than trying to fix them in other places.

just my opinion

pit

Sukhumvit Sam
05-14-07, 22:11
sam,

i have to strongly disagree with you here. americans did fight for freedom and we probably had it at one time but we are slowly giving it up. are you familiar with the "patriot act" that robs americans of a lot of freedoms we used to have? were you aware that bush authorized the tapping of phones and the easedropping of calls without court orders or judicial review? were you aware that bush has said that our mail can be intercepted and opened without need for a court order? do you really think there is freedom of speech and freedom of press in the united states any longer? there may be with smaller organizations and online reporting by individuals but the big news corporations really worry about money and offending people rather than reporting all the stories.

now thailand is as free as i have seen most countries. granted it is illegal to say anything bad about the king or to deface his pictures etc. and while i don't agree with those laws it is not my place to. if the thai people felt strongly about them they could force a change. in fact what i have seen of the king and his family, they are worthy of the respect they get and the people love him, so who am i to judge.

i think as an american it would be better to spend your energies fixing the problems in the united states than trying to fix them in other places.

just my opinion

pit


passin,

you and i are far from disagreement.

i agree completely and utterly that the patriot act, in combination with other such legislation, has gutted the us constitution.

we americans are now far from being the free men we once were.

this bush dictatorship, in particular, must go.

still, i'm reminded of how "culturally" i remain american when engaging in conversation with a canadian (as i did a few weeks ago) who insists that "government knows best" (his words--kid you not!) and that our job as citizens is simply to shut up and do what the government tells us to do.

he spoke lots, too, about "canadian values." these seem to manifest themselves in meek compliance with whatever that all-knowing government deems best.

and here--patriot act or no--i find myself right up against a cultural divide which, well, means everything.

because bush or no, patriot act or no, a heck of a lot of us star-spangled americans, of whatever political stripe (mine being rather left-swerving, though i find common cause here with the right) will not consent to be told what to do by a father-figure in power.

and this has everything to do with a certain father-worshiping country in southeast asia.

let's be free, grown men, and not children. apart from god, we have no father.

------------

but to veer back to a thread-appropriate topic (pardon the abruptness, if you will):

i learned something, a few pages back on this thread, about waiing bar girls.

in the past, i've never initiated the wai, but have always conscientiously returned one when offered it.

in fact, just a few months ago, when returning a mamasan's wai at a patpong bar, i found myself being sneered at by a fellow farang punter, and just as quickly thought, "screw you, bozo. she wais me, i wai her back. just like returning a handshake. makes sense, doesn't it?"

but now, having read this thread, i'm prepared to submit to the superior wisdom and experience of oth and just plain not return the wai, when offered one in a bar, by someone in service, counter-instinctual as this may seem. (here in korea, you return a bow with a bow, however slightly, in most cases. after six years in country, i now bow unthinkingly to everyone, and so probably raise quite a few laughs in los by so doing, though it's a very slight, almost imperceptible ducking slightly forward, when dealing with sales clerks, and others in service, and is honest-to-god something i do reflexively after all these years . . .)

------------

edit: no, i'm now thinking that i was right all along. a wai deserves a wai in response. if that's not "culturally appropriate" in thailand, it only proves that thailand is culturally unevolved. by returning a wai, i symbolically place myself on the same class tier as the person waiing me in the first place, which is exactly what i should do as someone who believes in human equality.

i'm right back there, in memory, at the patpong bar, midday. some bozo farang had brought along his farang wife; the two of them seem to be speaking british english and norwegian (or another nordic language) in turn. i was there first, hooked up by the mamasan with a nice young bg; along came the euro couple with their order of beer bottles, their fixation on the tv, the occasional sociological glance in my direction, the unmistakable sneer from the euro-guy when i returned the mamasan's wai, accompanied by something semi-audible to his european ladyfriend/companion about waiing the help: and still, a few months later, i'm thinking, "screw you, ahole! you enter the single man's holy of holies with your brought-along foreign galfriend/wife in tow, you dare sneer at me, when i was only trying to show respect, you and your woman dare invade patpong, a place you have no place being, if you're truly so . . . proper . . . so righteous, and/or whatever . . . screw you too!"

i was right. they were wrong. ok, so maybe they were "right," but still--what's a farang couple doing descending on patpong, and then abusing the single out-of-country customer--the guy who rightfully belongs there?

Giotto
05-15-07, 06:14
...
germany, i'm sorry to have to say, is a joke of a "free country."

without freedom of speech--something signally prohibited by law both in germany and in thailand, as it is, in fact, through most of the world--there is no real freedom. only slavery.
...
sukhumvit sam,

i lived for 35 years in germany, and though i decided to leave that country and to live in se asia now missing freedom was not even a minor reason to do so. compared to many countries i know germany is in my pov a quite free country.

reg. the freedom of speach - i agree that this is essential for implementing freedom. but in our specific case here it is not about what the opinion is, it is about where it is articulated. and this is simply the wrong forum for that.


giotto

Giotto
05-15-07, 06:22
...
And this has EVERYTHING to do with a certain father-worshiping country in Southeast Asia.

Let's be free, grown men, and not children. Apart from God, we have no father.
...
Sukhumvit Sam,

No, this has not much to do with father-worshiping countries. This has to do with an ongoing sociological and political development of an old-fashioned aristocratic Asian society into a democracy of western style. And as all societies in the world Thailand will need time for that.

And regarding God instead of another father figure - where is the difference? "Religion is opium for the people!" one could say.


Giotto

Sukhumvit Sam
05-16-07, 18:07
Sukhumvit Sam,

I lived for 35 years in Germany, and though I decided to leave that country and to live in SE Asia now missing freedom was not even a minor reason to do so. Compared to many countries I know Germany is in my POV a quite free country.

Reg. the freedom of speach - I agree that this is essential for implementing freedom. But in our specific case here it is not about WHAT the opinion is, it is about WHERE it is articulated. And this is simply the wrong forum for that.


Giotto


Giotto,

Lacking unconventional ideas, you'll find yourself "free" more or less anywhere, Thailand and/or Germany not excluded.

What a shame that free thought is not everywhere tolerated, that something so essentially anodyne as this: http://www.matthewhunt.com/blog/2006/07/king-never-smiles.html may invite legal/police scrutiny;

though like you, friend, I'm game to trade it all for lots of wild sex . . .

which is fundamentally how Thailand, at this point in its history, differentiates itself from North Korea . . .

You've gotta hand it to the King of Thailand, though:

1) He's got a better singing voice than Sinatra
2) Composes better music than Johann S. Bach
3) Writes better English than Shakespeare
4) Entrepreneurs in a way that puts Bill Gates to shame . . .

Long live the King!

SS

Traveler1234
05-16-07, 18:37
Gentlemen: Can we switch channels and return to the purpose of this forum....which is how to get laid?

Director of Marketing

:) :) :)

PassinThrough
05-17-07, 05:44
Traveler,

Here you go
Step 1 - Make a reservation at Livingstones
Step 2 - go to the Sports Bar
Step 3 - Wave around lots of Thai Baht
Step 4 - Wave more Thai Baht and hide your face
Step 5 - Give up waving arund money and tell Mamasan to send any girl to your room then quickly head up there.
Step 6 - When she gets to the room tell her to leave the lights off and join you in bed
Step 7 - Use a condom...

I think that just about covers it (pun intended). :-)

PIT

Petemcc
05-17-07, 11:44
Passin,


------------

Edit: No, I'm now thinking that I was right all along. A wai deserves a wai in response. If that's not "culturally appropriate" in Thailand, it only proves that Thailand is culturally unevolved. By returning a wai, I symbolically place myself on the same class tier as the person waiing me in the first place, which is exactly what I should do as someone who believes in human equality.



Where the fuck has OTH gone? He'd berate you for that.
I have to agree with you, but I know fuck all about Thai culture. However in most cultures it is appropriate to respond to a thank you.

Yin Yang
05-17-07, 16:38
Where the fuck has OTH gone? He'd berate you for that.
I have to agree with you, but I know fuck all about Thai culture. However in most cultures it is appropriate to respond to a thank you.OTH seems to be on leave. But he'd probably respond that a Wai isn't a "thank you". It's a greeting. And while greetings in Western countries are mostly egalitarian (e.g. shake hands), they aren't in Thailand. They are meant to acknowledge and show respect to a person's rank (incl. age). Having said that, I still don't think that Thais are as upset as OTH once claimed if a Farang returns a Wai from, say, a receptionist or a sales clerk. After all, they know that we're culturally incompetent ;)

YY

Old Thai Hand
05-17-07, 17:57
Where the fuck has OTH gone?

Well, I'm too busy these days with work, my GF, my Gig and my other Gig and my life in general, to really get involved in most of the nonsense on here, such as the laughable and mostly off-track analysis of Thai women going on over in the Thai women's section. But, I will respond to the "wai" issue.

The wai is not remotely like a handshake or a bow or anything else. It is a very culturally and socially specific sign of respect broken down into 5 types depending on status and who is wai-ing whom. It has nothing to do with human equality. In fact, it is so far removed from such a notion that anyone trying to teach Thais equality, by getting down with the natives and wai-ing all and sundry shows himself to be simply an ill-informed, culturally insensitive boob. Any Farang who thinks he's striking a blow for human rights or whatever by wai-ing a bargirl, a waitress, a shopgirl, a flight attendant or (Gawd forbid) a child, simply has no understanding of what the wai represents. Thais would not be impressed with someone above them in status wai-ing them as a sign of solidarity and equality. They'd think the person was as I described above, a 'boob', an ignorant, stupid Farang and laugh at the person behind their back.

When I see a Farang tourist wai a street vender, for example, it makes me cringe.

There are very few people I actually wai. I wai colleagues, when they wai me first (I wait for them, because I'm the oldest). I wai the dean. I wai-ed a couple of the princesses, when I met them. That's it. Even if someone wais me, unless they are equal or above me in status, I don't respond in kind. It's simply not done. It's the culture, whether you like it or not.

Thai culture is a "suck-up" culture. The wai is the ultimate expression of "sucking up". That's it's purpose.

Petemcc
05-17-07, 23:50
Well, I'm too busy these days with work, my GF, my Gig and my other Gig and my life in general, to really get involved in most of the nonsense on here, such as the laughable and mostly off-track analysis of Thai women going on over in the Thai women's section. But, I will respond to the "wai" issue.

The wai is not remotely like a handshake or a bow or anything else. It is a very culturally and socially specific sign of respect broken down into 5 types depending on status and who is wai-ing whom. It has nothing to do with human equality. In fact, it is so far removed from such a notion that anyone trying to teach Thais equality, by getting down with the natives and wai-ing all and sundry shows himself to be simply an ill-informed, culturally insensitive boob. Any Farang who thinks he's striking a blow for human rights or whatever by wai-ing a bargirl, a waitress, a shopgirl, a flight attendant or (Gawd forbid) a child, simply has no understanding of what the wai represents. Thais would not be impressed with someone above them in status wai-ing them as a sign of solidarity and equality. They'd think the person was as I described above, a 'boob', an ignorant, stupid Farang and laugh at the person behind their back.

When I see a Farang tourist wai a street vender, for example, it makes me cringe.

There are very few people I actually wai. I wai colleagues, when they wai me first (I wait for them, because I'm the oldest). I wai the dean. I wai-ed a couple of the princesses, when I met them. That's it. Even if someone wais me, unless they are equal or above me in status, I don't respond in kind. It's simply not done. It's the culture, whether you like it or not.

Thai culture is a "suck-up" culture. The wai is the ultimate expression of "sucking up". That's it's purpose.

We missed you and your social and cultural analysis of all things Thai. Thanks for clearing up the wai thing, I think we now all understand it's meaning. It's a pity they don't just shake hands, that would be a lot easier, mind you in LOS, perhaps hand to hand contact with a stranger may get you more than you bargained for, so perhaps there is method in their culture.

Fox Two
05-18-07, 01:53
This talk of the wai made me interested in learning more, so I went looking around the web and found this interesting article from the Australian-Thai Chamber of Commerce:

http://www.icnvic.org.au/images/AustCham.pdf

It offers advice on how to deal with Thais and insight into how they see things from a business standpoint. A lot of this can be made personally applicable if you think about it. I'm sure many here know a few thai business women they'd like to win over for a night of horizontal refreshment.

Some interesting parts:

Concerning the wai...

"Thailand is a hierarchical society and interaction between people is determined by status - whether you are equal, higher or lower status to other people. The means to impress your colleagues by showing respect the Thai way is by the wai, but make sure that you wai the person who is more senior to you in term of status. If you wai a person with a lower status you will embarrass them. If unsure, a handshake would be welcome. If your colleague is of equal status, age is the next criteria. You can initiate a wai to an older colleague. Thais are expected to wai a monk and an image of Buddha, especially when entering a temple. Other signs of respect are to remove shoes before entering a temple hall or a Thai house, and to observe the triple wai on the floor, which represents Thai respect for the Buddha, his teaching and the monks."

-A quick question here concerning the last part to anyone who knows. Is it proper for Farangs to wai a monk or image of Buddha also? The removal of shoes is straight forward (just do it), but how about the triple wai?

Concerning the Thai view of status and authority...

"People with a higher status, given respect and recognition, also need to provide for and assist people who depend on them, and to be fair in return. Thais may hide their disagreement or anger for the sake of outward harmony, and so you need to always read the body language and don’t assume that you know anything or everything in Thailand."

Concerning English and making a presentation to Thais...

“Yes” does not always mean yes. ...“face” is important in Thailand and needs to be preserved at all costs. For Thais to admit that they do not understand is a loss of face. Also, Thais will avoid asking for clarification as it may imply that you have failed in your presentation. Thai people will want to spare you the embarrassment, and will respond with a nod, a smile and a yes."

There's more but I'll let you read the article.

Cheers,

Fox Two

Old Thai Hand
05-18-07, 03:14
-A quick question here concerning the last part to anyone who knows. Is it proper for Farangs to wai a monk or image of Buddha also? The removal of shoes is straight forward (just do it), but how about the triple wai?

Not unless you are a Buddhist. In any event, unless you know how, you would probably use the wrong wai for the monk. It's not the same as the general wai used everyday. It is proper for a Farang to wai the King or any member of the Royal family, if you ever happen to meet them.

I've met the Crown Prince, Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn (the King's favorite daughter and the most popular member of the family)

...and one other "virtually", so to speak. I once had to wai and "Rap Prarinya" a photo of one of the Royals because I was receiving a decoration. The person couldn't make the ceremony because of illness. So, they propped the Royal's picture up on the alter with the requisite gold serving tray in front on which were placed the decorations. When we went up we had to wai and bow and then do the "Rap Prarinya" as if the person was actually there before taking our decoration from the tray. Then we had to step backwards 3 times, to the right side, bow, wai and turn to the right to exit. Rap Prarinya is a single, right hand gesture of receiving from a Royal. If you ever watch Thai TV when one of the Royals is giving out degrees or anything else, you'll see this done. It's a formal gesture in which the hand is snapped vertically in the air, just above waste level and twisted up so the palm is facing forward (like a Buddha image) and then lowered palm up to receive whatever's being given. It's difficult to do properly the first time. Even many Thais screw it up when they do it.

The bottom line is Farang are better off not wai-ing at all, unless they really know when it is appropriate to do so. Otherwise they risk embarassing themselves and the person they are wai-ing.

Hk Dog
05-18-07, 03:23
sam,

i have to strongly disagree with you here. americans did fight for freedom and we probably had it at one time but we are slowly giving it up. are you familiar with the "patriot act" that robs americans of a lot of freedoms we used to have? were you aware that bush authorized the tapping of phones and the easedropping of calls without court orders or judicial review? were you aware that bush has said that our mail can be intercepted and opened without need for a court order? do you really think there is freedom of speech and freedom of press in the united states any longer?
pit


another bush basher who gets his info from cindy sheehan and oliver stones movies.


do you know that one of our 4 great presidents who is carved on mount rushmore suspended habeas corpus? the only president to do so.

that dictator was abraham lincoln.

Hk Dog
05-18-07, 04:00
I was incorrect. Lincoln was not the only President to suspend Habeas Corpus, it was done a couple more times.

However, Lincoln directly ignored the Supreme Court when they said his suspension of Habeas Corpus was Unconstitutional.


Anybody who has the remotest knowledge of the NSA wiretaping controversey knows full well it does not apply to every American. It only applied to known foreign terrorists (who the NSA does not need a court order) calling US citizens . It was not a domestic to domestic wire tapping as the Bush bashers lover to represent it .

Happy Fucker
05-18-07, 04:08
OTH, is it approriate to wai your GF's / wife's parents when they are much older than yourself, even if you have a much higher status than the parents? I'm thinking of farang man with thai GF / wife.

HF

PassinThrough
05-18-07, 05:11
HK,

Nice to hear from you but let me clarify a few things.

The wire tapping is not limited to "known terrorists" it applies to any calls. Though is mainly limited to international calls to ro from the United States. They can tap any phone all they have to do is suspect a terrorist connection but since there is no judicial oversight they don't have to any any reason for that suspicion.

As for listening to Cindy Sheehan and others, I am afraid you are sadly mistaken. I am however a fan of the likes of Thomas Paine "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" as well as Voltaire "I may not agree with what you say but to your death I will defend your right to say it".

I certainly don't like the direction the U.S. is headed and I am not afraid to day so.

PIT

Hk Dog
05-18-07, 05:20
HK,

The wire tapping is not limited to "known terrorists" it applies to any calls. Though is mainly limited to international calls to ro from the United States. They can tap any phone all they have to do is suspect a terrorist connection but since there is no judicial oversight they don't have to any any reason for that suspicion.

PIT


I don't know how to politely tell you but you are wrong. Read the details and not the headline soundbytes from Human Rights Watch.

A simple google will help clear up the issue. For example on Wikipedia they correctly state

"The NSA warrantless surveillance controversy concerns surveillance of persons within the United States incident to the collection of foreign intelligence by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) as part of the war on terror. Under this program, referred to by the Bush administration as the "terrorist surveillance program",[1] the NSA is authorized by executive order to monitor phone calls and other communication originating from parties outside the U.S. with known or suspected links to al Qaeda, even if the terminus of that communication lies within the U.S"


BTW, the suspension of Habeus Corpus is a much more serious issue than wiretapping.

Do you know that the right to privacy does NOT exist in the US Constitution but Habeus Corpus does?

Giotto
05-18-07, 07:39
OTH, is it approriate to wai your GF's / wife's parents when they are much older than yourself, even if you have a much higher status than the parents? I'm thinking of farang man with thai GF / wife.
Happy Fucker,

Yes, it is appropriate to wai the parents of your partner.

I see here in the Sports Lounge so many farang coming in and waiing to the girls in the bar. Please, guys, just don't do that. If they wai at you smile back, nod your head a bit - that's all!


Giotto

Finrod
05-18-07, 08:47
I was clued in when I got there so I never wai'd anybody and I didn't run into any monks. The only time I wai'd was at the big Buddha images at the Wat Prakeuw. But I have to say some Thai girls are just so cute when they wai you.

Old Thai Hand
05-18-07, 09:12
OTH, is it approriate to wai your GF's / wife's parents when they are much older than yourself, even if you have a much higher status than the parents? I'm thinking of farang man with thai GF / wife.

HF

Yes, because they are your GF's/wife's parents, so warrant respect despite perhaps being dirt-poor Isaan farmers. But, the fact that you would end up with a GF/wife from that social strata is another issue, altogether.

Old Thai Hand
05-18-07, 09:15
But I have to say some Thai girls are just so cute when they wai you.

That's a big part of it as well. Thais, particularly women are very graceful when they wai. Farang usually look like contortionists in pain when they do it.

A nice touch, if you have a regular Thai girl in your life is when she wai's you and then the headboard of the bed before she goes to sleep. I've never had a BG do this. But, lots of nice TGs do it. It's quite charming.

Happy Fucker
05-18-07, 12:37
Yes, because they are your GF's/wife's parents, so warrant respect despite perhaps being dirt-poor Isaan farmers. But, the fact that you would end up with a GF/wife from that social strata is another issue, altogether.Thanks for the info. It's exactly what I do everytime I see her parents.

It's true, she's from a very poor family, but has been brought up by her parents in a way which I don't believe any other could have done any better. I'm the first and only farang she's been with, and we have been living together now for 3 years. She's polite, smart and has good manners. It was a big coincidence how we met and I'm very happy I met her. I have been together with some "rich" and respected girls from LOS before I met her, and she is far better than any of those, but of course there are good "rich" girls too. And BTW, she's never worked in any bar or go-go. Her Parents have always had just enough money to provide for their kids. As a matter of fact, when I brought her to a go-go bar for the first time, she was really shocked and wanted to leave strait away. She said she became very sad to see what her fellow country girls had to do for a living.

HF

Slylock
01-08-09, 07:17
Hello all,

I have a question concerning a thai lady. I do think it is appropriate to this thread and not the thai women thread. so OK, I have been staying at the same Hotel for 8 years. I travel to Thailand once every 2 to 3 months, for the past 8 years. This girl happens to be one of the housekeepers for the floor I stay on. I am very interested in her, and she in me. Whenever I ask her out on a date she says yes, we decide on venue and time, but she never shows up! Now, I first thought this was a 'not loosing face' issue where should would not want to say no to me, but during the day, before she leaves work she will stop by to "check" I have everything I need, while doing so she will confirm the date, smile really big and then giggle her way out of the room. Then I thought ok, she must have been held back by her parents, as she lives with them still. but I have meet her parents when the captain of house keeping passed away. So I now do not know what the matter is! I know she likes me, she is always smiling, and not in the normal thai fashion, then after about 2 years she would grab my hand, then it culminated a few years back with her grabbing my ass! Any ideas?

OK, I would like to feedback on wai-ing. I do believe one of the reasons it is so hard for farang in this area of whom to or not to wai comes down to the fact that in our home countries we are not on a different class level then the people we deal with in Thailand. At least in the sense that we 'started' there, ie service industry or the like. Also western people are raised to be polite. We are always looking for the way to be polite in other cultures, and naturally without guidance we would tend to latch onto something that fills our need to be polite as soon as we find it and in Thailand we are Wai-ed too even before the first smile. (As immigration has never smiled to me before. LOL and next person i meet is the tout wai-ing to me and offering to take me to a great hotel) so my point in this is to ask those guys out there who live and work in Thailand, unlike us part timers and first timers. What can we do, short of just nodding, to cover OUR need to be polite and cover THERE need of not loosing face or feeling embarrassed?

Slylock
01-08-09, 07:22
BTW, I do not bring working girls to my hotel room.

I am a massage parlour person. This also in the south Hatyai.

Cheers

Giotto
01-11-09, 17:09
...
I have a question concerning a thai lady. I do think it is appropriate to this thread and not the thai women thread. so OK, I have been staying at the same Hotel for 8 years. I travel to Thailand once every 2 to 3 months, for the past 8 years. This girl happens to be one of the housekeepers for the floor I stay on. I am very interested in her, and she in me. Whenever I ask her out on a date she says yes, we decide on venue and time, but she never shows up! Now, I first thought this was a 'not loosing face' issue where should would not want to say no to me, but during the day, before she leaves work she will stop by to "check" I have everything I need, while doing so she will confirm the date, smile really big and then giggle her way out of the room. Then I thought ok, she must have been held back by her parents, as she lives with them still. but I have meet her parents when the captain of house keeping passed away. So I now do not know what the matter is! I know she likes me, she is always smiling, and not in the normal thai fashion, then after about 2 years she would grab my hand, then it culminated a few years back with her grabbing my ass! Any ideas?
...
Slylock,

Do I understand correctly: 8 years, many attempt to meet somewhere outside of the hotel, and she never shows up?


Giotto

Slylock
01-12-09, 14:40
Slylock,

Do I understand correctly: 8 years, many attempt to meet somewhere outside of the hotel, and she never shows up?

GiottoFor the First 3 years I never tried anything with the lady, thinking even if she was interested so would think I am only interested in sex and nothing more :). But over the last 5 years i ask her every time I am there if she wants to go out to eat or maybe shopping or a movie. The first time she said no, but I was persistent on my following trip up. She agreed to go and have something to eat. She did not show up at 8pm as per or arrangement. She also did not show up for work the next day either. I asked the old woman who works on the same floor what she thinks is going on, thru or broken english and thai she told me that the girl thinks that she is not good enough for me, and that her parents may not approve. The old woman also told me to keep trying. For the next couple of trips I left the matter alone, but about 8 months latter I asked her again and she said yes. Thats when she started trying to hold my hand and smile at me differently. I went to meet her at the bowling alley and she did not show up again. This time I tryed to call from a pay phone, she answered and when she found it was me she just started speaking in Thai and ignoring what I am saying. So I think she was at home and her parents where around. I then gave up for awhile, about a year I quess. Then I got a call from the old woman who also works on the floor I stay, she tells me the Head of housekeeping has died in a motorcycle accident and asks me to come up to the funeral. that was about a year and a half ago. At the house of this old woman some of the people from the office where there eating and talking, the girl I was interested in came over with her parents. I took the time to speak with her father through a 'translator'. We seemed to have gotten along, though that is much different then him thinking I am good enough to date his daughter! On my next trip up I asked her out again, she said yes! kept finding reasons to come to my room and kept trying to squeeze my bum! So I thought 'OK' this time its ON!

But alas she did not show up again. She was scheduled not to work the next day and I was due to go home, as I left my room she was waiting for me in her normal clothes. I did not stop to talk and just came home. That was the trip before I went back to the states for awhile. I will be going back up next week. I did not know what to do, but I like her and she seems to like me but something is holding her back?

Any ideas?

Slylock

Giotto
01-13-09, 06:51
...
Any ideas?
...
Slylock,

Not really. If this goes on for years now this girl is also not too young any more and should not have problems to leave home to meet you.

Looks to me that she has a boyfriend.

Another option could be that she looses her job when she meets you. Some hotels don't allow their staff to meet customers outside of the hotel.


Giotto

Slylock
01-14-09, 04:13
Looks to me that she has a boyfriend.

Some hotels don't allow their staff to meet customers outside of the hotel.

GiottoI do agree with you on the boyfriend part, or maybe even a husband as she is not a spring chicken anymore. Yes, her hotel does not allow their staff to associate with the guests outside of the hotel.

I as of yet may give up on her, but she is such a sweet lady.

Thanks, this has allowed me to think this out better and see it more clearly. Like hitting the refresh button!

Hope all is well with you and family,

Slylock

Slylock
01-28-09, 07:28
Slylock,

Not really. If this goes on for years now this girl is also not too young any more and should not have problems to leave home to meet you.

Giotto

Giotto and others do not laugh to hard ya?!

Well I finally meet up with my girl and had a unforgettable night! How did this happen you might ask, well heres the story.

I checked into the hotel, went up to my normal room and meet my wanabe girlfriend. So I had decided before I left I would just come straight out and ask if see has a boyfriend and if not why can she not meet with me. Well she started crying and said she has no boyfriend. she says she is embarrassed to tell me that she lives a few hours away in a small village and takes bus to and from work. I said that I do not care where she lives and that we should go out, have some drinks and really get to no one another. She then tells me she gets off of work at 5pm (which I know) but that the last bus leaves at 7pm! so if she stayed to go out with me she would be stranded! So to make a long story short. I changed hotels, we went out, had fun and she stayed the night! I feel so dumb, I guess I never asked the right questions.

Slylock

Giotto
01-28-09, 14:47
Giotto and others do not laugh to hard ya?!

Well I finally meet up with my girl and had a unforgettable night! How did this happen you might ask, well heres the story.

I checked into the hotel, went up to my normal room and meet my wanabe girlfriend. So I had decided before I left I would just come straight out and ask if see has a boyfriend and if not why can she not meet with me. Well she started crying and said she has no boyfriend. she says she is embarrassed to tell me that she lives a few hours away in a small village and takes bus to and from work. I said that I do not care where she lives and that we should go out, have some drinks and really get to no one another. She then tells me she gets off of work at 5pm (which I know) but that the last bus leaves at 7pm! so if she stayed to go out with me she would be stranded! So to make a long story short. I changed hotels, we went out, had fun and she stayed the night! I feel so dumb, I guess I never asked the right questions.

SlylockSlylock,

Nobody will laugh. Who can understand Thai women :) ?

Anyway - the outcome is good for you, congratulations!


Giotto

M P Lurker
01-28-09, 21:06
Slylock,

Nobody will laugh. Who can understand Thai women :) ?

Anyway - the outcome is good for you, congratulations!


Giotto
It also shows how pointless it can be to guess what is going on with Thai women. I get proved wrong, time and time again.

Slylock
01-30-09, 09:08
Thanks Giotto for your support, and Mick for sympathizing.

Women really have the guts to wonder why we monger? Too bad the only woman who can sympathize with us are lesbian. :(

Hermescali
01-30-09, 10:07
Thanks Giotto for your support, and Mick for sympathizing.

Women really have the guts to wonder why we monger? Too bad the only woman who can sympathize with us are lesbian. :(There are quite a lot of girls who like men, but sometimes also other women. They can sympathise with us. Luckely I am married with one. Sometimes we have fun in Thailnad together, sometime I have fun in Thailand alone.