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Mill Just
01-01-05, 01:00
Thread Starter.

Mill Just
07-26-06, 07:02
Just to put my 2 cents in- I put any and all pills that I bring into the US from Mexico mixed inside exisiting over-the-counter medicine bottles.

For example, I've brought back into the US from Mexico sizable amounts of Morphine in tablet form several times without a prescription and I put a few in the bottom of the Advil bottle, a few in the Dramamine bottle, a few in the allergy medicine bottle, etc...

Customs doesn't care to inspect all of your Advil- tablet by tablet unless you're Rush Limbaugh!

Have fun, be safe and I'll be coming to Monterrey soon!!!!!!!!

Mill Just
08-11-06, 21:26
Hey Brother Carlos, The gals in the middle of Mexico are like wooden stoves- it takes a little longer to heat them up, but when you do they're hot like the sun...

I have been living near or in Morelia for about 6 years now and I can safely say that I much prefer this area than almost any area in mexico. The girls at the clubs have been great to me and the owners treat me like a king. I have had countless comps with the ladies and many times I go to the clubs and grope and chat with the ladies without the slightest hint on their parts about buying drinks.

These girls, depsite their professions, are still doused in the Catholic guilt and you have to win their confidence before things get really interesting :)

I'm just speaking from my point of view, though, and as someone who has been to the beaches, DF, most of central Mexico, The border towns, and some of Southern Mexico. I'll be heading to Monterrey soon, to see what's up there.

So, While the girls from my neck of the woods aren't as polished as in some partsand there aren't as many places to get busy, you can still have a great time with some gorgeous girls and, after some grunt work on your part, you can be treated like royalty while spending much less money than in many parts of the country.

Keep chugging along guys and I hope I'll cross paths with some of my bros when I pass through Monterrey and if anyone of y'all are in Morelia, drop me a line and I'll buy the first beer and plate of tacos al pastor.

C'ya

MonterreyDude
08-12-06, 08:49
Thing is is Mill, like myself, you are a regular to the club scene, almost a local guy.
That is why you know "the way".
Unspongebob, Wasted and several other of the guys only have hours or scant days in Monterrey so they concentrate their efforts on 2 or 3 clubs at the most where they have had the best results money wise.
Me, being a local, I check the action at 10 clubs (out of double or more that amount) with all the time of the world, same as you do in the Morelia area.
Now, I don't agree at all with the "still doused in the Catholic guilt"... the girls fully check you out before letting you in within their circle. It's their way of knowing that they are not wasting their time with you and that you are willing to spend money on them.
Also, if you are a regular customer meddling with regular club girls, the kind that have been there for a while, they are likely to be slower in opening up, knowing that you are there as a repeat customer for, a) another girl that might be her "property"or b) quick fun with a girl and that the next time you are in, you'll switch for another one.
But whatever the choice, etc, etc, we both you and I Mill, have an excelent advantage over visitors.
We really know what fun is... right?




Hey Brother Carlos, The gals in the middle of Mexico are like wooden stoves- it takes a little longer to heat them up, but when you do they're hot like the sun...

I have been living near or in Morelia for about 6 years now and I can safely say that I much prefer this area than almost any area in mexico. The girls at the clubs have been great to me and the owners treat me like a king. I have had countless comps with the ladies and many times I go to the clubs and grope and chat with the ladies without the slightest hint on their parts about buying drinks.

These girls, depsite their professions, are still doused in the Catholic guilt and you have to win their confidence before things get really interesting :)

I'm just speaking from my point of view, though, and as someone who has been to the beaches, DF, most of central Mexico, The border towns, and some of Southern Mexico. I'll be heading to Monterrey soon, to see what's up there.

So, While the girls from my neck of the woods aren't as polished as in some partsand there aren't as many places to get busy, you can still have a great time with some gorgeous girls and, after some grunt work on your part, you can be treated like royalty while spending much less money than in many parts of the country.

Keep chugging along guys and I hope I'll cross paths with some of my bros when I pass through Monterrey and if anyone of y'all are in Morelia, drop me a line and I'll buy the first beer and plate of tacos al pastor.

C'ya

Mill Just
08-15-06, 06:03
No doubt about that, amigo. Por eso quiero tanto a Mexico y a las Mexicanas.

I guess what I meant by the "Catholic Guilt" line was that they, like most working girls and churches, are ultimately only interested in the donation plate despite the passionate sermons they deliver.


Talk to you later, brotha.

Mill Just
09-04-06, 09:06
Hi UnospongeBob, I just want to say first that you are one of my favorite posters on the ISG and I always look forward to reading your posts. Although, I mostly post in Morelia, I check in here because I'm planning a trip this year to Monterrey.

Now to the matter at hand. A few years back, I was in almost the exact same situation you are in. It got so bad that there were at least two good clubs that I had to make off-limits because of the drama. I monger because I want to have sex with different women without feeling guilty and without the drama of sneeking around and watching over your back.

Sure, I make friends, but I now make it clear that no one girl is my exclusive. These girls are sharp and they are hungry for the kill- combine that with the natural possesiveness of a woman and you have a mighty beast in front of you.

I see your "angry girl" in one of three categories:

1) she sees you as a steady customer and she will fight to keep your money rolling in- whether it be through guilt or great sex.

2) she sees you as a ticket out of the life she's in and will try to press all of your buttons in an effort to get what she wants- a better life. Maybe you will marry her and bring her to the USA where she can make more money and get away from the sex industry.

or

3) she really likes you and wants something serious in the future. If this is the case and you don't want anything serious, cut it off immediatley because things will get progressively worse.

My advice to you is to talk with her directly and say that you like her and her service and that you want to keep a relationship going, but that you also will see other girls. If she doesn't react right- cut her off and don't look back.

A couple of years ago I got real close with a bar girl here in Morelia. She was to the point, also, of wanting to give me freebies and visiting me at the apartment I was keeping. I liked her a lot, but I couldn't see myself getting serious with a girl who sleeps with dozens or hundreds of men a year. Anyway, I made myself disapear from her life and I got a real, non-pro girlfriend who began to live with me.

Well, what do you think happened? My bar girl decided to surprise me one day, after not seeing her for like 8 months. She saw that I had my girlfriend with me and she went nuts, breaking my window and screaming at the top of her lungs. Then, there began a few months of harrasment and stalkings that eventually cost me my legit girlfriend and my apartment.

I'm not saying that "angry girl" is like my crazy girl, but who knows? My girl was great with me for a long time too, but the more I got to know her, the more I was seeing negative traits. What they do in the club is an act. It is an act to get what they want: money or help.

But, I'm just adding my two cents here. I hpe everything works out a lot better for you.

Take care and be safe,

Miller2k

Member #3453
09-04-06, 15:46
Hola Mill Just,

Nice to hear from you, and thanks for relaying your experiences. It really helps to have a fellow monger relate some of the same drama, if not for the purposes of hopefully developing a winning strategy, then at least for moral support.

First, I have a life back in the States, and would NEVER contemplate a serious relationship with a bar girl. It is simply a recipe for total, unavoidable, disaster. But, I am a romantic, and would like there to be some "sincerity" in my liasons. So, that is why I care about the way the girls perceive their time with me.

More specifically, that is why I was originally curious to determine my girlfriend's true feelings. If she had true feelings, I would prefer to be honest with her up front, and divulge my personal circumstances to her so she is not "working" on me for any long term objective. I just wanted the "relationship" to be on a more honest level. In order for that to happen, I needed to know her true feelings and apparent objectives. So, I kept pressing her to get to the truth, and my relentlessness has apparently backfired, hopefully causing only a temporary issue for the two of us.

I believe that the truth lies somewhere between #2 and #3 of your response below. Frankly, after last months session with this girl, I concluded that she really loves sex, and that sex is her primary desire for seeing me, over an above the money.

Last time I was with her, prior to her little episode, we were in the room and I was just joking around, not in any particular hurry to have sex, but just kidding her, being stupid, taking my time, etc...I enjoy being with the girls, all sex aside. I just enjoy their company, and I enjoy the freshness that these young girls bring to the table. I would sometimes be content just to have them by my side in the room, to talk, caress, smooch, etc...It is not all sex with me, quite the contrary.

Anyway, when we were togther this last time, apparently she had enough of my fooling around, joking, etc..., and got a big smile on her face, and blurted out my name, and said "COMON, I WANT SEX!!!" And, it wasn't because she was in any hurry other than being "HOT." She stayed with me after we had sex for at least another two hours.

That is one of those things that fondly lingers in one's mind forever. I don't think I have ever had a girl actually beg me for sex. I have had them obviously want it, but not beg me for it. This was also the same occassion where I was short on cash, and not in a position to pay her. I told her I didn't have any money, and she told me the money was not important. I decided it was important to pay her, so I came up with an adequate amount to give her, an amount that was consistent with what I normally pay. But, had I not had the money, or not given her money, she would have been ok with it.

Carlos once told me that many of the girls see us as dildos (in the literal sense of course), and they only care about getting off on us. After my last session with "angry girl" I believe she sees me as a "dildo," and in the literal sense, and now in the disparaging sense too, hahahaha!!!

I never really thought I would be complaining like a woman, complaining that they only see me as a sex object, but I am really beginning to wonder whether I like that very much. I never thought I would ever be slightly offended at the prospect of being thought of by a woman as a sex object. I always assumed it would be quite the opposite if one were to find one's self in that enviable position. But, the reality is, I would prefer to be thought of with a little more romance and affection attached to it than to be desired as a dildo, hahahaha!!!

But, here is the big question for the board...In regular straight life, within the context of the legitimate relationships of the world, is there really much more to what motivates people to have "serious" relationships than really good sex, plus a general acceptable compatibility of personality?

And, how many marriages are based on money? A whole bunch of relationships are based almost solely on money, sex, and very general compatibility, if your lucky. Money marries Money, Money marries Sexual Prowess, and Sexual Prowess marries Money.

The element of "power" is also an important reason relationships take place. Power begats more Power. Power begats money. Money and Power begats more sex. It's a vicious circle, hahahaha!!!

So, in conclusion, I believe she is looking at me as a "sugar daddy" opportunity, and she probably figures I am the better candidate for a decent life, plus she gets to have good sex, from a guy she can tolerate, and may actually like. Not too far off of real life romance situation is it? The only thing missing from the ultimate equation up to this point has been the element of "Power," and she is attempting to establish her power within the relationship at this juncture.

So, now, maybe the "relationship" is going full tilt, and she is attempting to impose the Power of her femaninity on me.

Perhaps I have stumbled upon the answer to my dilemma, at least upon the explanation for her behavior, SEX, MONEY, AND POWER.

So, what do you guys think of that hypothesis?


I see your "angry girl" in one of three categories:

1) she sees you as a steady customer and she will fight to keep your money rolling in- whether it be through guilt or great sex.

2) she sees you as a ticket out of the life she's in and will try to press all of your buttons in an effort to get what she wants- a better life. Maybe you will marry her and bring her to the USA where she can make more money and get away from the sex industry.

or

3) she really likes you and wants something serious in the future. If this is the case and you don't want anything serious, cut it off immediatley because things will get progressively worse.

My advice to you is to talk with her directly and say that you like her and her service and that you want to keep a relationship going, but that you also will see other girls. If she doesn't react right- cut her off and don't look back.

MonterreyDude
09-04-06, 17:19
Wow!!!
You and Mill Just really fall TOA for the girls!
Mill Just let me quote you on your 1-2-3:

1) she sees you as a steady customer and she will fight to keep your money rolling in- whether it be through guilt or great sex.
A: this is the correct answer. Not 2 or 3. Business is business for the girls. Yes they are human beings and they can be offended. Yes they prefer for you to spend lots and lots of money on them and not another girl. Yes they feel offended if you choose to spend on another girl, even if it is your right cause it's yuor money. This has happend to me tons of times. As a matter of fact it is happening right now at one of the clubs and Unspongebob has been a witness to this, but the thing is I don't care if the girl is offended or not. It is my money, and I will not get involved in stupid fights with said girl.

2) she sees you as a ticket out of the life she's in and will try to press all of your buttons in an effort to get what she wants- a better life. Maybe you will marry her and bring her to the USA where she can make more money and get away from the sex industry.

A: if this were true, the girl would not charge anything. You wouldn't be their customers, they would star working you as a lover. They would stick to you night and day and then press you to take them to the USA.

or

3) she really likes you and wants something serious in the future. If this is the case and you don't want anything serious, cut it off immediatley because things will get progressively worse.

A: again, if this was the case, the girl wouldn't charge you for services rendered.

"Angry Girl" in a sense is a very possesive girl. One that wants full control over things.
Am having that problem with a girl from the same club right now, but from the night shift. She gets angry cause I don't call her on the phone. She's upset cause I don't check on her more often.
I don't do it cause am busy with other girls at other clubs. And she just realized that I go in the afternoon to check on 2 girls of the afternoon shift... she went ballistic.
But it all comes down again to the same thing: she likes me as a good paying customer. She likes my money and wants it in HER pocket, not in some elses.
Period.
By the way UBob... Angry Girl was not present on Saturday. My Lamb of my Sacred Flock, the G girl (the one you dared lay hands on) informed me that once again she has taken a week off.





Hola Mill Just,

Nice to hear from you, and thanks for relaying your experiences. It really helps to have a fellow monger relate some of the same drama, if not for the purposes of hopefully developing a winning strategy, then at least for moral support.

First, I have a life back in the States, and would NEVER contemplate a serious relationship with a bar girl. It is simply a recipe for total, inavoidable, disaster. But, I am a romantic, and would like there to be some "sincerity" in my liasons. So, that is why I care about the way the girls perceive their time with me.

More specifically, that is why I was originally curious to determine my girlfriend's true feelings. If she had true feelings, I would prefer to be honest with her up front, and divulge my personal circumstances to her so she is not "working" on me for any long term objective. I just wanted the "relationship" to be on a more honest level. In order for that to happen, I needed to know her true feelings and apparent objectives. So, I kept pressing her to get to the truth, and my relentlessness has apparently backfired, hopefully causing only a temporary issue for the two of us.

I believe that the truth lies somewhere between #2 and #3 of your response below. Frankly, after last months session with this girl, I concluded that she really loves sex, and that sex is her primary desire for seeing me, over an above the money.

Last time I was with her, prior to her little episode, we were in the room and I was just joking around, not in any particular hurry to have sex, but just kidding her, being stupid, taking my time, etc...I enjoy being with the girls, all sex aside. I just enjoy their company, and I enjoy the freshness that these young girls bring to the table. I would sometimes be content just to have them by my side in the room, to talk, caress, smooch, etc...It is not all sex with me, quite the contrary.

Anyway, when we were togther this last time, apparently she had enough of my fooling around, joking, etc..., and got a big smile on her face, and blurted out my name, and said "COMON, I WANT SEX!!!" And, it wasn't because she was in any hurry other than being "HOT." She stayed with me after we had sex for at least another two hours.

That is one of those things that fondly lingers in one's mind forever. I don't think I have ever had a girl actually beg me for sex. I have had them obviously want it, but not beg me for it. This was also the same occassion where I was short on cash, and not in a position to pay her. I told her I didn't have any money, and she told me the money was not important. I decided it was important to pay her, so I came up with an adequate amount to give her, an amount that was consistent with what I normally pay. But, had I not had the money, or not given her money, she would have been ok with it.

Carlos once told me that many of the girls see us as dildos (in the literal sense of course), and they only care about getting off on us. After my last session with "angry girl" I believe she sees me as a "dildo," and in the literal sense, and now in the disparaging sense too, hahahaha!!!

I never really thought I would be complaining like a woman, complaining that they only see me as a sex object, but I am really beginning to wonder whether I like that very much. I never thought I would ever be slightly offended at the prospect of being thought of by a woman as a sex object. I always assumed it would be quite the opposite if one were to find one's self in that enviable position. But, the reality is, I would prefer to be thought of with a little more romance and affection attached to it than to be desired as a dildo, hahahaha!!!

But, here is the big question for the board...In regular straight life, within the context of the legitimate relationships of the world, is there really much more to what motivates people to have "serious" relationships than really good sex, plus a general acceptable compatibility of personality?

And, how many marriages are based on money? A whole bunch of relationships are based almost solely on money, sex, and very general compatibility, if your lucky. Money marries Money, Money marries Sexual Prowess, and Sexual Prowess marries Money.

The element of "power" is also an important reason relationships take place. Power begats more Power. Power begats money. Money and Power begats more sex. It's a vicious circle, hahahaha!!!

So, in conclusion, I believe she is looking at me as a "sugar daddy" opportunity, and she probably figures I am the better candidate for a decent life, plus she gets to have good sex, from a guy she can tolerate, and may actually like. Not too far off of real life romance situation is it? The only thing missing from the ultimate equation up to this point has been the element of "Power," and she is attempting to establish her power within the relationship at this juncture.

So, now, maybe the "relationship" is going full tilt, and she is attempting to impose the Power of her femaninity on me.

Perhaps I have stumbled upon the answer to my dilemma, at least upon the explanation for her behavior, SEX, MONEY, AND POWER.

So, what do you guys think of that hypothesis?

Lion Killer
09-04-06, 22:09
I am a participant in many of the sites here in WSG, but I do have to agree that our MTY board is probably the best in reading and information that I am a part of.

Uno if not now, was probably a literary/english professor in his present/past life.

Porker I don't know as well in his writing but, Carlos tells me he is a connoisseur of Asia as I am.

Wasted, he will get there one day, he is still young in the art of mongering, its not about how much money you spend, its about the quantity/quality you get for your money. Mongering is an art.

Mill Just, nice to see a new face.

Carlos is Carlos, he is the King of MTY.

Keep up the reports guys, I hope to get back there before the end of the year.

LK

El Cabron 007
09-05-06, 17:03
I want to argue so bad but I think LK is a good judge of characters.

Still having fun thu .. Lotta fun :)

But I hope my "he will get there one day" will be the day I decide to quit. I am addicted to girls. I think I was supposed to be a lesbian. Hot dammm.

Wasted.


I am a participant in many of the sites here in WSG, but I do have to agree that our MTY board is probably the best in reading and information that I am a part of.

Uno if not now, was probably a literary/english professor in his present/past life.

Porker I don't know as well in his writing but, Carlos tells me he is a connoisseur of Asia as I am.

Wasted, he will get there one day, he is still young in the art of mongering, its not about how much money you spend, its about the quantity/quality you get for your money. Mongering is an art.

Mill Just, nice to see a new face.

Carlos is Carlos, he is the King of MTY.

Keep up the reports guys, I hope to get back there before the end of the year.

LK

Mill Just
10-02-06, 09:47
Congratulations, Uno! You just got yourself bumped off the "dummy" list. That's the real reason for the cold shoulder on her part- She no longer feels that you can be played . If these girls wanted to be in a relationship they wouldn't ask you for money, EVER, and they wouldn't be screwing strangers for cash. Most prostitues are emotionally incapable of being in a serious relationship. These girls just want to pay their bills. I'd even bet a stack of Benjamins that the "intimacy" she has displayed with you is a well-rehearsed act that she has used time and time again with kind-hearted foreigners, although, in the moment one would swear it to be genuine.

I say leave her behind and keep on moving. Would you really want to get involved with her again? Who needs the drama? And with the way she has behaved you know that the next time there's a problem the drama will be greater.

The way I see it- If I wanted head-trips, power plays and frustrations I would just stick with a normal, non-mongering relationship. I pay to have sex with hot women who will be part of my fantasy. A fantasy that at no moment involves confusion or stress.

By the way, after living in Mexico for about 7 years now, I have learned a little about Mexican women. The doting, sensitive American idea of masculinity gets real old real fast in the eyes of the Mexicanas. Mexican women want a man with machismo who is capable and willing to screw half the block. So, if you want to keep playing with this girl, keep in mind that you've already won her respect and respect goes a long way here in Latin America, especially in the whole male/female dynamic.

Member #3453
10-02-06, 13:13
Thanks everyone for your comments and opionions. I know my writings might suggest that I have an emotional attachment here, but more accurately, my writings contain a bit of poetic license for entertainment value and effect.

Mill Just hit the nail on the head. I may find it very hard to have the same "fantasy encounter" with her that I had in the past. If there is an emotional component to my psyche, it's a kind of melacholy over a formerly good thing gone bad, not an emotional loss.

Truth be known, my motivations are primarily monetary here. There are only two clubs in Monterrey where bar fines are the cheapest, and where, for the money, the girls are the best looking, El Infinito and El Cielo. Matehuela is a close second, but the bar fines cost around 1500 pesos, versus 1350 Pesos at El Infinito and El Cielo, and the selection of "doable" girls in Matehuela is more limited than the other two according to my taste.

So, while there is a number of girls available at El Infinito, many, many, many of them, are skaggs, and/or have NO personality or "act" to fall back on. Believe me, I have met them all, interviewed them all extensively, and the decent candidates are far and few between, or they are girls that have been previously claimed by my compadres that either live here in Monterrey or are regular visitors, girls that I do not, on principle, generally tread on.

Secondarily, I enjoy "long time" encounters. Most of the girls will not stay with you for more than the prescribed 1.5 hours, if that. So, when you find a gem that is willing to sometimes spend 3-6 hours with you, for the same price as you would normally get for the 1.5 hour price tag, she is a keeper, if she pushes the right buttons, which "angry girl" does...and, she is valuable monetarily in a venue where "long-time" encounters are very, very, rare.

So, you see, my motivations are more motivated by money as it relates to overall value. If you do find a girl willing to spend a relatively long time with you on salida, at a cheap price, then she is a relative rarity in Monterrey, and a good value.

So, sure, I could pull from countless other clubs here in Monterrey, and I have, even if they are more expensive. Fact is, I have may other options in the other bars. But, for example, in Harem and Casino, the cost to take a girl out of the clubs is around 1700 pesos. It costs 2000-2500 pesos to take a girl out of Pasarelas, TVO, Extasis, or Bahamas. It costs an exhorbidant amount, probably 4000-6000 pesos to take girls out of the higher end clubs like Obsession, Prestige, Amnesia, Premier, etc...So, those high end clubs are "out of the freakin' question."

So, the truth be known, my frustrations in this sceanario are not so altruistically romantic as might be interpreted in my post. If, in fact, angry girl's motivations are not primarily monetary, mine certainly are.

It takes me a long time to find the right girls here, the ones that push my buttons, and are in the right price range. The problem is, I have very specific "fantasy encounter" criteria, and frankly, most of the girls here DO NOT measure up. My "requirements" go far beyond appearance, and their "act" IS their livelihood with me. Without a maintainence of the proper "act" they're virtually are out of business with me anyway.

Over the past year and half, I have gradually noticed "cracks" developing in "angry girl's" act. And, I began to increasingly pay attention to other girls working at El Infinito as a consequence, sometimes with "angry girl" fully aware of it, and sometimes not. So, perhaps she is trying every tactic but the right one to solidify her position. But, unless she can "get her "ACT" together," she will be out of a job with me anyway.

All have suggested that I "move on," but what you don't realize is that I never "stopped" looking to begin with, hahaha!!! I am constantly on the prowl for girls that push my buttons, but at the right price. When I finally find the right ones, they are part of a range of girls that keep me entertained while I am here, but at the right price. So, the loss that some may interpret as emotional is more accurately akin to my being disappointed that one of my star players has been benched, and that my costs may be escalating as a result.

This scenario occupies my thoughts for only one reason, because I am intellectual confused by her tactics, and I can not figure out her angle. I am not emotionally concerned with her behavior, just intellectually confused. Can anyone really figure how she intends to turn this into a Win/Win situation?

Mill Just
10-09-06, 21:20
...if you needed that job as a gigolo desperately and you learned over time that a certain type of woman will pay out big dividends if you treat her a certain way, then you would do whatever it takes.

A prostitue, over time, and out of neccesity becomes numb and begins to just play act with respect to their "relationships" with us. She treats us relative to the amount of money we can cough up to her either in the moment or over time. If we could change bodies with a poor Mexican farmer and we treated her with respect, as we do now, you can be sure that the act of being a nice guy would be thrown out the window almost as fast as we are kicked to the curb

I'm not saying that these girls don't enjoy their time with us, but its all relative. We may treat her nicer than her other customers and we may be able to give her more money than the next guy, but we're still customers. Customers to a difficult profession that she probably resents greatly, at least on a subconscious level. It would be like if I was run out of business at my school and my competitor hired me at a lower pay. I would be forced to work for him out of neccesity and I might be pleased to at least have a job, but I would never be friends with that man. As nice as he would treat me, he'd still be the symptom and/or cause of my suffering at the same time as being my savior. I would pretend to like him and, if he invited me to his house I'd take the invitation and show up, but never confuse neccesity with affection.

Prostitutes are actually very easy to figure out: They want our money and they get it because they give us sex. That's it. The car salesman likes us because we buy the car, but outside the dealership he couldn't care less about us.

Mill Just
11-18-06, 10:06
Once again my 2 cents:

If you want to go classic, very few girls (pro or non-pro) can resist some of the old, romantic serenade music by Pedro Infante. I don't know any song names in particular, but there seem to be quite a few that really appeal to the chicas. Also, Vicente Fernandez is good.

Modern romatic starts and stops with Mana.

For more traditional modern romatic music try Marco Antonio Solis or Banda Recodo or Luis Miguel

For the rocker chicas: Panda or QBO

For the older rocker chicas: Molotov or Cafe Tacuba

Reggaeton seems to be real popular here (Daddy Yankee, Don Omar)

In my area there is a type of music that is called Duranguense and its for dancing primarily. The music sounds like a demented mexican circus, but its extremely popular in central Mexico (not sure about Monterrey). The best group is called K-Paz de la Sierra and their song "Pero te vas arrepentir" is actually pretty good.

"Durmiendo con la Luna" by Elefante is one of my favorite Spanish songs used primarily for putting chicas in "the mood."

Sorry I don't know too many song names, but if you have a file sharing program like Limewire, then just do search. If not, pick up a bunch of pirata cd's in a mercado near you ;)

Have fun, buddy.

Miller2k

MonterreyDude
11-18-06, 10:19
Mill: I agree with everything except Pedro Infante.... no, that guy is dead for the younger generations.



Once again my 2 cents:

If you want to go classic, very few girls (pro or non-pro) can resist some of the old, romantic serenade music by Pedro Infante. I don't know any song names in particular, but there seem to be quite a few that really appeal to the chicas. Also, Vicente Fernandez is good.

Modern romatic starts and stops with Mana.

For more traditional modern romatic music try Marco Antonio Solis or Banda Recodo or Luis Miguel

For the rocker chicas: Panda or QBO

For the older rocker chicas: Molotov or Cafe Tacuba

Reggaeton seems to be real popular here (Daddy Yankee, Don Omar)

In my area there is a type of music that is called Duranguense and its for dancing primarily. The music sounds like a demented mexican circus, but its extremely popular in central Mexico (not sure about Monterrey). The best group is called K-Paz de la Sierra and their song "Pero te vas arrepentir" is actually pretty good.

"Durmiendo con la Luna" by Elefante is one of my favorite Spanish songs used primarily for putting chicas in "the mood."

Sorry I don't know too many song names, but if you have a file sharing program like Limewire, then just do search. If not, pick up a bunch of pirata cd's in a mercado near you ;)

Have fun, buddy.

Miller2k

Mill Just
11-18-06, 21:53
Mill: I agree with everything except Pedro Infante.... no, that guy is dead for the younger generations.


Hate to disagree...especially with you, but it all depends on the girl. My last girlfriend was 24 years old and she melted with the romantic Pedro Infante songs and the girl I'm seeing now is 23 years old and she likes his music too- Maybe not to listen to casually, but it is definitely something that appeals to her sentiments.

Uno, I also forgot to mention Ricardo Arjona. He's a smart, romantic trova artist from Guatemala and the girls melt for him.

Mill Just
01-02-07, 22:52
I was recently presented with a unique business opportunity and I need some info on the following company: Caribbean Corp. SA de CV (Elite Escorts Management).

I would appreciate hearing about any info you have on this company. Answer me here or PM me.

I will let you all know why I want to know this after I cross a few T's and dot a few i's.

Thanks in advance, brothers.

Bbond
01-03-07, 06:59
I was recently presented with a unique business opportunity and I need some info on the following company: Caribbean Corp. SA de CV (Elite Escorts Management).
I would appreciate hearing about any info you have on this company. Answer me here or PM me.
I will let you all know why I want to know this after I cross a few T's and dot a few i's.
Thanks in advance, brothers.

You and thousands of others.......good luck on that scam.....

Mill Just
01-06-07, 05:51
...But, if you try that night after night, wild orgies, two or three girls at a time, two or three girls a day, similar to what you get away with in Pattaya or AC, you will NOT be welcome in the hotels of MTY. Just a word to the wise.

This happened to one of my favorite hotels in Morelia...Everything was fine and sweet until one monger came to town and had a wild party in his room with multiple girls over the course of a few days. Now, mongering is no longer allowed and even the slightest hint of it will result in you being kicked out. Aside from offending the other guests and ruining their image as a family-friendly place, being so closely related to prostitution can be loosely considered "pimping," which is ilegal here in Mexico.

It was a horrible thing that happened to a really nice place and I would hate for the same thing to happen to the famous PDA.

MonterreyDude
01-06-07, 07:12
It also happened to the Best Western Madero where Unspongebob used to stay.
Had a sex scandal within their premises AND that was the day they stopped allowing lady visitors to the rooms at night.



This happened to one of my favorite hotels in Morelia...Everything was fine and sweet until one monger came to town and had a wild party in his room with multiple girls over the course of a few days. Now, mongering is no longer allowed and even the slightest hint of it will result in you being kicked out. Aside from offending the other guests and ruining their image as a family-friendly place, being so closely related to prostitution can be loosely considered "pimping," which is ilegal here in Mexico.

It was a horrible thing that happened to a really nice place and I would hate for the same thing to happen to the famous PDA.

Mill Just
02-05-07, 08:04
Wasted asked me, when he was here, how could I not mend my relationship with my Obsession Lamb after so much time. Let me point out that she went ballistic when I bought another girl a drink (I sent her the drink, not even sat with her)... real part here is that she is not entitled to be angry. After all, Iam the guy with the money and they are the ones that need it.
My Lamb, on the contrary, should have made a better effort of me noticing her, not the other way around, killing the friendship.
Am I going to miss her? Yes, and a lot, but Iam not going to mess my life because of her.
That is the point... it's supposed to be fun, after all, we are paying.
Am not into clubs and club girls to screw my life up... cause their life is not my life.


Beautifully put, Carlos. Being too involved with the chicas puts you in a situation that will not be fun for you in the long run. They are providers-pure and simple. We can respect them and treat them good, but in the end we are their clients and putting such an emotional element into it will ruin our enjoyment AND our economics.

It would be like if we fell in love with the guy who sold us toner for our copiers and we limited ourselves to him being our sole supplier. You can bet that he will take advantage of that situation because his livelihood depends on making money from you. The same with the club girls. They want your money. It's just that simple. If they didn't care about money they wouldn't be screwing strangers for cash.

On a human level, I care about a chica's sad life and I probably do as much charity work as anyone, but I don't want to hear about her hungry kids or her past relationships while I'm sitting at the table with a chica. Leave the drama with your mama! Fun is what our hobby should be. All the jealousies and entanglements and drama just wear a brother down. If I wanted all that grief, I'd be married.

MonterreyDude
02-05-07, 09:52
Well said too Mill Just.
I have had so many girls with me that just sit and start telling me about how their sister is pregnant, their mom is with another guy, that they are getting married next week or that their boyfriend just is not good enough to her.
You know what I do?
"Check please!!!"
Next club... as fast as I can!



Beautifully put, Carlos. Being too involved with the chicas puts you in a situation that will not be fun for you in the long run. They are providers-pure and simple. We can respect them and treat them good, but in the end we are their clients and putting such an emotional element into it will ruin our enjoyment AND our economics.

It would be like if we fell in love with the guy who sold us toner for our copiers and we limited ourselves to him being our sole supplier. You can bet that he will take advantage of that situation because his livelihood depends on making money from you. The same with the club girls. They want your money. It's just that simple. If they didn't care about money they wouldn't be screwing strangers for cash.

On a human level, I care about a chica's sad life and I probably do as much charity work as anyone, but I don't want to hear about her hungry kids or her past relationships while I'm sitting at the table with a chica. Leave the drama with your mama! Fun is what our hobby should be. All the jealousies and entanglements and drama just wear a brother down. If I wanted all that grief, I'd be married.

Member #3453
02-05-07, 22:38
Carlos,

That's funny...I had that same line about "I am getting married next month" from our friend "V" at the "H" place. Needless to say, this last time, after you left, she told me that the waiter she was "engaged" to was mal, and that they were no longer seeing each other. Remember, there was all the other baggage and circumstances surrounding her situation, circumstances that are too involved to detail here.

Anyway, a couple of months ago, while she is on salida with me, todo la noche, willing to do with me anything I seemingly want to do with her in the privacy of my hotel room, she tells me that she is getting married to a guy working in the club, and that they are planning to marry in one month.

When I return to the club in three months, she is still working the club, and she is playing her same role to a "T."

Anyway, I realized after going on salida with her, that the more I learned of her personal life, the more turned-off by it I became. On salida she is talking to me well into the night, telling me about her affair, and her serious engagment with this guy working in the club, all this after we have just had sex in my hotel room.

Guys...I don't know about these girls...It boggles the frickin' mind. But, frankly, that kind of shit turns me off. I like "V" very much as a friend, and I may even break down and see her again. She apparently has some affection for me, asking me this last time to call her the following day around 10am so we could get together, austensibly so she could pick up a CD of my Gringo music from me. I forgot to call... :-)

I have to say, she is such a great actress that upon knowing that she IS such a great actress, and a girl with such an unbelievably compicated life and human debry in her interactions, and seemingly with such little regard for whatever fallout occurs in her wake, that it's just kind of a turn-off.

La Cuenta, Por Favor!!!!!!!!!


Well said too Mill Just.
I have had so many girls with me that just sit and start telling me about how their sister is pregnant, their mom is with another guy, that they are getting married next week or that their boyfriend just is not good enough to her.
You know what I do?
"Check please!!!"
Next club... as fast as I can!

Mill Just
02-19-07, 07:08
The USA is 200 years old. I would not call that history. But 4000 years of history is in fact 'history'

Wasted

The Country of the USA is only about 250 years old (counting the years of the pre-revolution), but the history of the Native Americans goes way further, actually earlier than the Mexican civilizations (although on a much lesser scale).

The independent country of Mexico is only about 200 years old. Before that, the country was just a set of warring indigenous tribes with no real national identity until being unified under the Spanish Conquista.

MonterreyDude
02-19-07, 07:20
Iam going to sound like a moderator, but I think this "history" posting is way off what we should be posting here....
We should stick to stuff like I guess... sex?
Girls?




The Country of the USA is only about 250 years old (counting the years of the pre-revolution), but the history of the Native Americans goes way further, actually earlier than the Mexican civilizations (although on a much lesser scale).

The independent country of Mexico is only about 200 years old. Before that, the country was just a set of warring indigenous tribes with no real national identity until being unified under the Spanish Conquista.

Mill Just
02-19-07, 07:26
Iam going to sound like a moderator, but I think this "history" posting is way off what we should be posting here....
We should stick to stuff like I guess... sex?
Girls?


what with all the personal messages, when was the last time sex was actually discussed here in this forum? I agree, though, and I would like to see a trip report here with some updated prices and names so that us future visitors will know the current prices and trends instead of the " My "I" girl is at the "M" place so that "P" can see that "L" was really mad......" reports. You know, that's why the PM function exists...With the exception of UNO, our hobby is almost NEVER even discussed here any longer.

If you are ALL gonna post off-topic then my post shouldn't be the only one pointed out.

TRIP REPORTS PLEASE!!!! We want to know about sex in Monterrey, not about what you like for breakfast. Thanks.

And, Carlos, as the self-inducted Mayor of Mongering in Monterrey you should share your "wisdom" more. The last time you even remotely posted on-topic was in November, 2006.

Mill Just
02-22-07, 23:24
I still find it shockingly disgusting for guys to perform oral sex on working chicas. Yuck!

As an American living in Mexico for 7 years, I have never, ever even considered going sans-condom with a pay-for-play chica- And there have been many chicas who have offered me that option.

Many of my Mexican friends do not use condoms with street girls, club girls or escorts. Not me. No pussy is good enough to die for. Well....Maybe Shakira's....

El Cabron 007
02-23-07, 02:07
That was cool. How much do you think she would charge for a salida?

USB: I understand you are arriving tomorrow the 24th. I want day-by-day report. The good, the bad and the sexy.

Make sure to say hello to my cute little girls and tell every single one of them that I love her. Especially my 'P' girl and 'X' and , well, all of them but don't go any further than that. You touch them and I'll deal with you :-)

Have fun out there. I'm waiting for things to calm down here so I can take a long weekend off and come fix the damage you're gonna leave behind.


Wasted


I still find it shockingly disgusting for guys to perform oral sex on working chicas. Yuck!

As an American living in Mexico for 7 years, I have never, ever even considered going sans-condom with a pay-for-play chica- And there have been many chicas who have offered me that option.

Many of my Mexican friends do not use condoms with street girls, club girls or escorts. Not me. No pussy is good enough to die for. Well....Maybe Shakira's....

Mill Just
02-23-07, 23:47
MillJust,

hola, mi amigo...

With respect to cuntilingus and performing same on pros, I speculate that the practice is actually less risky than any other act you could perform on them, not withstanding deep french kissing, a peck on the cheek, shaking hands, etc...Facts are, the risk of STDs from cuntilingus, with the single exception of Herpes, is the least risky of all, certainly less risky than barebacking them.

According to the San Francisco City Clinic, a reknowned resource for all things to do with sex acts of all kinds, and the resulting potential diseases from same, Cuntilingus is extremely safe, even with respect to Herpes, provided there are no sores that might actually come in contact with your own mucus membrane.

This is plainly stated on their website. I always take what I hear about risks with a grain of salt. But, I have to admit, if I were to consult with a sex clinic, the San Franciso City Clinic, amidst all the decadence and depravity of San Francisco, would be one of my first choices. Can you imagine the stuff they must see on a daily basis?

I knew a guy that worked at the Matehuela. He always worked the stairway down to the privados. This guy was from Chicago, a Gringo, a fellow countryman as it were. Anyway, he once told me, very seriously, and with complete disgust and trepedation..."USB, do not kiss them, not ever....I see what they are doing in the privados...I would not kiss them...not ever!!!!" hahhahaha. Pretty funny!

LOL. As a Mexican local who has seen a lot of depraved stuff, I would whole-heartedly agree!

Actually, I was just referring to the just, plain disgust factor as opposed to the medical risks. Knowing that I'm sucking and licking on a place which has been pounded, beaten and cremed upon by hundreds and hundreds of hombres, some clean and some, most definitely, not. That's what makes me shy away from it. And for those special chicas that I want to pleasure- I use my fingers, a nice massage or I pull out my handy-dandy pocket rocket.

El Cabron 007
02-24-07, 01:40
LOL - Mill, it used to be so nice, it used to be so good. But now you ruined it for all of us. Yuk. :-)

I think I just lost my appetite.

Wasted



LOL. As a Mexican local who has seen a lot of depraved stuff, I would whole-heartedly agree!

Actually, I was just referring to the just, plain disgust factor as opposed to the medical risks. Knowing that I'm sucking and licking on a place which has been pounded, beaten and cremed upon by hundreds and hundreds of hombres, some clean and some, most definitely, not. That's what makes me shy away from it. And for those special chicas that I want to pleasure- I use my fingers, a nice massage or I pull out my handy-dandy pocket rocket.

Mill Just
03-01-07, 23:37
When I first started to visit Mexico, before I made the move here, I had the same outlook on mongering as you do. I didn't really feel 100% satisfied in a P4P adventure without at least somewhat of a hint of emotional comittment on both of our parts. In the short term, I was really rewarded and my first 4 or 6 months in Mexico were quite the pleasant adventure. But playing the game like that has a short shelf life. Things get old real quick and the level of GFE attitude from the chicas would always just burn itself out and you get stuck in the role of "Fairy Godfather." You become someone who the girls go to for favors or emotional support and the sex becomes secondary. Eventually, the GFE romps in the hay that made you fall for this chica disappear because either she thinks of you as someone "above" the level of her ordinary customers or she no longer feels the need to put much effort into her sessions because she has you hooked already. Whatever the case, you don't get what want and things just become needlessly complicated with little or no pay-off. Mexicanas are beautiful and gracious women, but they have a way of getting what they want without actually demanding it of you. Very hard to resist.

Anyway, over time I developed a simple strategy on these chicas that may help you or other mongers with the same sensibilities as us. I just see them as buddies. I think we sometimes confuse the sex with the closeness. Really, they are two very different things. It's like having a friend like Carlos. You get along with him and have a great time and have developed a matually rewarding relationship, but I'm sure you don't pine for him when your back home and I'm sure he doesn't give you any guilt trips for seeing other friends. Basically, that's what you have to do with the chicas. Treat them like buddies with whom you have a mutually beneficial relationship.

These chicas are party girls, plain and simple. They drink and dance and fuck for a living. They can and will give you the same quality GFE whether they think of you as a future husband or a good, fun-loving buddy. I always assumed that I had to dangle at least a hint of a promise of a relationship to these girls to get good service, but that's not the case. I didn't have to act like their boyfriend for them to rock my world. Now, I just tell them that I'm not looking for anything serious and I just want to have fun with a good amiga. That works like a charm and I actually get better, more passionate service than I did before and I never get stuck in the role of "provider" or "eternal shoulder to lean on." I have had friends for 2 or 3 years who I go to occasionally and have a good time and then feel no obligation to see them again until I feel like it. And, best of all, they don't feel like I absolutely belong to them when I step in their club. They call me occasionally to get something to eat or go see a movie or play that they think may interest me, but it doesn't become that level of clinginess that I felt before.

That's more or less the attitude that a lot of Mexican nationals have on mongering. And that's also the reason that many of them who are married get the most play of all. Listen to and digest everything Carlos has to say because he doesn't just understand the culture, he IS the culture of Mexico. What he knows inherently is something that I had to learn through a lot of uncomfortable and difficult times.

MonterreyDude
03-02-07, 03:48
Mill Just says: It's like having a friend like Carlos. You get along with him and have a great time and have developed a matually rewarding relationship, but I'm sure you don't pine for him when your back home and I'm sure he doesn't give you any guilt trips for seeing other friends.

wow!!! Noooooooooooooo! am inocent!!!!!!



When I first started to visit Mexico, before I made the move here, I had the same outlook on mongering as you do. I didn't really feel 100% satisfied in a P4P adventure without at least somewhat of a hint of emotional comittment on both of our parts. In the short term, I was really rewarded and my first 4 or 6 months in Mexico were quite the pleasant adventure. But playing the game like that has a short shelf life. Things get old real quick and the level of GFE attitude from the chicas would always just burn itself out and you get stuck in the role of "Fairy Godfather." You become someone who the girls go to for favors or emotional support and the sex becomes secondary. Eventually, the GFE romps in the hay that made you fall for this chica disappear because either she thinks of you as someone "above" the level of her ordinary customers or she no longer feels the need to put much effort into her sessions because she has you hooked already. Whatever the case, you don't get what want and things just become needlessly complicated with little or no pay-off. Mexicanas are beautiful and gracious women, but they have a way of getting what they want without actually demanding it of you. Very hard to resist.

Anyway, over time I developed a simple strategy on these chicas that may help you or other mongers with the same sensibilities as us. I just see them as buddies. I think we sometimes confuse the sex with the closeness. Really, they are two very different things. It's like having a friend like Carlos. You get along with him and have a great time and have developed a matually rewarding relationship, but I'm sure you don't pine for him when your back home and I'm sure he doesn't give you any guilt trips for seeing other friends. Basically, that's what you have to do with the chicas. Treat them like buddies with whom you have a mutually beneficial relationship.

These chicas are party girls, plain and simple. They drink and dance and fuck for a living. They can and will give you the same quality GFE whether they think of you as a future husband or a good, fun-loving buddy. I always assumed that I had to dangle at least a hint of a promise of a relationship to these girls to get good service, but that's not the case. I didn't have to act like their boyfriend for them to rock my world. Now, I just tell them that I'm not looking for anything serious and I just want to have fun with a good amiga. That works like a charm and I actually get better, more passionate service than I did before and I never get stuck in the role of "provider" or "eternal shoulder to lean on." I have had friends for 2 or 3 years who I go to occasionally and have a good time and then feel no obligation to see them again until I feel like it. And, best of all, they don't feel like I absolutely belong to them when I step in their club. They call me occasionally to get something to eat or go see a movie or play that they think may interest me, but it doesn't become that level of clinginess that I felt before.

That's more or less the attitude that a lot of Mexican nationals have on mongering. And that's also the reason that many of them who are married get the most play of all. Listen to and digest everything Carlos has to say because he doesn't just understand the culture, he IS the culture of Mexico. What he knows inherently is something that I had to learn through a lot of uncomfortable and difficult times.

Member #3453
03-02-07, 14:45
I don't know...he's a pretty "sweet" guy. I could really go for him....NOT!!!


Mill Just says: It's like having a friend like Carlos. You get along with him and have a great time and have developed a matually rewarding relationship, but I'm sure you don't pine for him when your back home and I'm sure he doesn't give you any guilt trips for seeing other friends.

wow!!! Noooooooooooooo! am inocent!!!!!!

El Cabron 007
03-02-07, 16:22
Mill cracks me up with his comments. RTW will testify that Carlos tried to molest me last night had I not been aware of his intentions. :-)

But seriously, he really showed what a cool dude he is last night. He gave up one of his 'best' lambs to me last night. I asked his permission and he did not mind.

I liked his "D" girl but always knew she was off limits simply because she belongs to Carlos. I remember when I tried to take one other girl from the line up once, all the girls, my girls, on the stage were trying to stop me saying: "No, She's Carlos' girl, no, she's Carlos girl". They know we do not touch each other’s girls.

Anyways, back to "D" girl. I remember the first time I met her. She sat down, "Hello" and the next words from her were " .. and Carlos?" That's when I knew. Oppss, bye. NEXT.

Same happened about a year ago when I was looking for a girl to take out. Mr. "L" and Clay recommended one girl from the line up. She had a tight body. She sat with us after the line up, then she goes "Y Carlos?" … What the heck? So I passed. That was the "G" girl, by the way, Carlos and USB!

So, Good morning to you Horney Chickens. I needed the rest, I tell you. Details? You ain't getting none. lol. Carlos thinks he now has the upper hand. But I'm gonna make him beg for details. :-)

I'll see you all at lunch.

Wasted



Mill Just says: It's like having a friend like Carlos. You get along with him and have a great time and have developed a matually rewarding relationship, but I'm sure you don't pine for him when your back home and I'm sure he doesn't give you any guilt trips for seeing other friends.

wow!!! Noooooooooooooo! am inocent!!!!!!

Mill Just
03-13-07, 22:12
I think that the general laziness of the bar girls in all the Mexican venues is due to so many of us horny gringos coming down and laying basket-fulls of money at their feet just for being pretty. We are so appreciative of the mexican mongering scene as opposed to the horrible american scene that many of us get carried away and spoil these chicas. I know before I moved to Mexico I was guilty of this during many of my mongering trips south of the border. Now I just make the chicas beg for me :) and not the other way around.

Mill Just
03-15-07, 12:02
With all due respect as someone who has been guilty of waxing poetic a few times too often--This Monterrey area has become a total mess and has succeeded in driving people away from posting real reports. This thing reads like Charlie Brown's teacher speaks "wahhh wahhh wahhh wahhh wahhhh." Not that USB's insights or Wasted's sexcapades aren't interesting, but this board is for specifics that would direct us towards good chicas at a good price, something that I at least try to do in the Morelia section (hence being a senior member with extensive experience and less than 200 posts.) I will only post things that are of interest to the general reader thinking of coming to Morelia. I usually refrain from giving specifics like phone numbers to people I don't know, but all else is fair game. There is no purpose for me to post when I don't have any info to share (or no info that I wish to share.)

What has bothered me for a while is the whole "My girl" attitude that Proko mentioned. If you don't wish to direct us towards a specific chica, then what the hell is the purpose in mentioning her, whether in code or not? To prove that you get laid in a bar full of prostitutes? I don't get it. This is what the PM feature is for- to share info not intended for the general public to see, to arrange meetings with other members and to share tidbits of your personal interactions with the chicas.

I haven't learned anything from reading this Monterrey area of the ISG that would make me have an easier time in Monterrey. Nothing. USB was the only person to help me out in a PM when I just didn't feel like dealing with all the verbage from reading these long, meaningless posts that fester here. I am a veteran in Mexico and I lost interest in visiting Monterrey. I can just imagine a newbie coming in and leaving disgusted after reading 20 pages of nothing useful.

And with all due respect, RTW, we shouldn't have to scroll through pages of filler just to find something even resembling a trip report. Many of us download this info provided or print it out to take with us on a mongering trip. I will not bother going through 1,500 posts just to find the one that actually contains useful information. I shouldn't have to. And, as a responsible member, I wouldn't want others to have to either. Also, I don't buy the "protecting the women" thing. Most of what has been mentioned using the silly codes, takes place in the bar and on a salida and wouldn't hurt them. And even if it would, I think most of us here are trustworthy enough to get a very general chica name and description without trying to stalk them. Other specifics like phone numbers can be given to trusted members through the PM system. Why all the codes? The whole purpose of this board is to exchange INFORMATION that would benefit fellow members and using the codes cuts off all but 3 or 4 people here and adds nothing to the Monterrey section of the ISG. These are not your girlfriends, they are sex workers being written about in a message bord dedicated to sharing information about sex workers.

Awhile back, I was upset when Jackson initiated the no cross-talk rule. I must admit, though, that I was wrong and this Monterrey area is a testament to what can happen when pen pals get control of what used to be a public forum. I will visit Monterrey and I will post the info I get, but I will be starting practically from zero because, other than the fact that someobody went to a gay bar with a chica and that Carlos likes ugly girls with big asses, I learned almost nothing here.

MonterreyDude
03-15-07, 17:55
Mill, Iam totally dissapointed with you.
Have I ever given you the run-around?
Have I ever given someone the run-around?
Never.
If they come down to Monterrey, I help them if they ask questions... specific questions like you did, and Prokofiev did.
Reports...
This is intresting cause the board now stands divided.
People coming down here just love Unspongebob's posts.
Now it turns out they are soaps...
And Mill and Pro... you just don't get the "my girl" thing.
If you could only see us, both Wasted and me, sitting at the Infinito 7 PM line up, you'd understand the meaning of "my girl".
In a sense they have become "our girls", but it's impossible to explain, cause I don't think you understand the point of view of a "loyal" customer. One that sees the same girls week after week as I do or as Wasted does.
You just won't get it till you do the rounds with us.



With all due respect as someone who has been guilty of waxing poetic a few times too often--This Monterrey area has become a total mess and has succeeded in driving people away from posting real reports. This thing reads like Charlie Brown's teacher speaks "wahhh wahhh wahhh wahhh wahhhh." Not that USB's insights or Wasted's sexcapades aren't interesting, but this board is for specifics that would direct us towards good chicas at a good price, something that I at least try to do in the Morelia section (hence being a senior member with extensive experience and less than 200 posts.) I will only post things that are of interest to the general reader thinking of coming to Morelia. I usually refrain from giving specifics like phone numbers to people I don't know, but all else is fair game. There is no purpose for me to post when I don't have any info to share (or no info that I wish to share.)

What has bothered me for a while is the whole "My girl" attitude that Proko mentioned. If you don't wish to direct us towards a specific chica, then what the hell is the purpose in mentioning her, whether in code or not? To prove that you get laid in a bar full of prostitutes? I don't get it. This is what the PM feature is for- to share info not intended for the general public to see, to arrange meetings with other members and to share tidbits of your personal interactions with the chicas.

I haven't learned anything from reading this Monterrey area of the ISG that would make me have an easier time in Monterrey. Nothing. USB was the only person to help me out in a PM when I just didn't feel like dealing with all the verbage from reading these long, meaningless posts that fester here. I am a veteran in Mexico and I lost interest in visiting Monterrey. I can just imagine a newbie coming in and leaving disgusted after reading 20 pages of nothing useful.

And with all due respect, RTW, we shouldn't have to scroll through pages of filler just to find something even resembling a trip report. Many of us download this info provided or print it out to take with us on a mongering trip. I will not bother going through 1,500 posts just to find the one that actually contains useful information. I shouldn't have to. And, as a responsible member, I wouldn't want others to have to either. Also, I don't buy the "protecting the women" thing. Most of what has been mentioned using the silly codes, takes place in the bar and on a salida and wouldn't hurt them. And even if it would, I think most of us here are trustworthy enough to get a very general chica name and description without trying to stalk them. Other specifics like phone numbers can be given to trusted members through the PM system. Why all the codes? The whole purpose of this board is to exchange INFORMATION that would benefit fellow members and using the codes cuts off all but 3 or 4 people here and adds nothing to the Monterrey section of the ISG. These are not your girlfriends, they are sex workers being written about in a message bord dedicated to sharing information about sex workers.

Awhile back, I was upset when Jackson initiated the no cross-talk rule. I must admit, though, that I was wrong and this Monterrey area is a testament to what can happen when pen pals get control of what used to be a public forum. I will visit Monterrey and I will post the info I get, but I will be starting practically from zero because, other than the fact that someobody went to a gay bar with a chica and that Carlos likes ugly girls with big asses, I learned almost nothing here.

Prokofiev
03-15-07, 19:23
" Is this Thread useful?
Are our comments helpufull?
Do I or do not help the visitors coming down here to Monterrey?"

Yes, I already thanked you for your maps and info. But that doesn't mean you should turn a public forum like ISG into a little penpal club. You guys seem to be missing the point. How can you possibly think that posts about "angry girl at "the I place" etc, etc could be of ANY use to more than 2 or 3 personal friends? That is what the PM function is for. And if you can't fit it in a PM, then just exchange group E-mails with the 3-4 guys. Is writing Infinito more difficult than " the I place"? It appears you guys are bragging about stuff that the rest of us should not know about. THAT is what is not helpful and has others upset.

" Bottom line...we are not pimps for lazy lurkers that want the information delivered to them on a silver plater"

Posts like this are insulting. I wouldn't characterize Mill Just (formerly Miller2K) as a lazy lurker. And if delivering info makes you a pimp . . . so be it! That is the PURPOSE of this forum! It is NOT a chatroom. I think that may be the basic cause of the problem. Mill has made over a 1000 posts over the years on this the the previous forum and has helped me and many others with his info about Mexico. Plus he's a good guy. Like myself and others, he is frustrated by your style of communication. Too much like a private little club. Too much "We are Vets", "my girls", "his girl" stuff. If these girls are REALLY just your private girlfriends and wont go out with anyone else, then there is no need to talk about them here. But I also think you guys give yourselves a bit too much credit. I may be wrong, but somehow I doubt these ladies are in love with you. They are pros and work for money. They can never do a salida with us because you don't post any names or info. Rather self-fulfilling prediction.

" Lastly, RTFF if you need info, if you don't like reading someone's report keep scrolling"

That would work if there wasn't SO much extra stuff. Just to get thu Mar and Feb 2007 you need 16 pages of reading with 15-20 post per page! Guys PLEASE quit using the QUOTE function to copy USBs posts in total. Everything ends up being printed 2 or 3 times - and these posts are enormous. Just copy and paste an important line or better yet just start out USB. . . and write your reply. It would keep this much more readable

" . . .and don't assume that the info provided here by Senior members is for your sole benefit"

Well, I don't. But neither should it be for the benefit of 1 or 2 members. That is for the PM function. Posts here should be for the benefit of ALL. Agreed?

Finally, just as Nibu Rafael has his own little section maybe USB could have a thread just for him? That would cut out 70% of the words and make finding info so much easier. Those who want to chat with him can post there and the rest put hard info on the forum.

-P

Mill Just
03-15-07, 20:55
Please don't try to talk down to me because, as I thought you knew, I have been living in Mexico for quite a long time as well and know my way around a tittie bar or two.

But thanks anyway...


You both know am a local boy.
Lived in Monterrey for 48 years, 25 of those dedicated to the night life.
Both of you in a sense posted that no information is being placed here in this Thread.
Information is indeed placed here on a "need to know" basis.
This information has helped many, including both of you to have a good time here in Monterrey.... or am I wrong?
Back to me being a local.
You both know that the clubs are here to make money. To squeeze the wallets of those that do not know how the clubs work, raise the prices to exploit the inocent and how the girls manage their clients to rip them off.
Clubs do not rip off me nor my friends, nor my out of town friends and visitors cause I make sure of that.
What do I do as a local? I stir them away of clubs that are tourist traps, girls that are troublesome, girls that have sticky fingers. Waiters that are thieves.
Help them if they are in trouble in these matters.
In person if the visitor whishes too.
Let me ask you something to you guys that just come down here for quickies and then go back to the confort of your homes.
Do you think the clubs agree to me assiting "dumb gringos" in not spending their money, throwing it away stupidly and aimlessly?
Of course not, the house is geared to get your money without mercy.
Just 2 Fridays ago we watched as 2 Amercians were conned by 2 Five star club girls out of 1000 dlls each.
You know what the comments were on Monday? "oh those stupid gringos that fell for every jarra the girls asked" Oh yes, the guys complained about the tab, the service, that they were bieng conned... uselessly.
I wanted to go over to them and tell them that they were bieng robbed. You know what would have happend to me? I would have been kicked out and banned from the club.
You know what the managers, the one's I am friend too, tell me? "Why the f**k do you help them, let them throw their money, they have plenty"... meaning you guys coming down here, thinking that you are rich.
You know how many insults I have to dodge from the girls that I do not allow to come even near to my friends from this Board and other boards mainly coming from the US?
No you don't, cause you go back home, back to your lives.
Not me, I live here.
My life is bumping into the girls at the malls, some times while being with my wife or maybe at a restaurant or movie theater.
Or better yet, finding out a brand promoting girl at the HEB food center one minute away from home, where you do your weekly shopping is a retired club girl.
And you know why nothing happens in those brief moments of panic you never get to live, cause you are not from here?
Cause the girls respect me. Thankfully.
Now, coming back to the point in mind:
Is this Thread useful?
Are our comments helpufull?
Do I or do not help the visitors coming down here to Monterrey?
Do the visitors coming down here leave Monterrey dissatisfied after getting advise from this Thread?
If the answer is yes, good.
If the answer is no... I'll guess I'll just retire .... NOT!
We have a nice helpful family over here... hopefully it'll stay this way.

Member #3453
03-15-07, 21:38
Prok says...
"Posts like this are insulting. I wouldn't characterize Mill Just (formerly Miller2K) as a lazy lurker. And if delivering info makes you a pimp . . . so be it!"

First off, Prok, I would not categorize you or MJ as "lazy lurkers," nor did I make that statement. I don't feel that either of you are lazy lurkers. Quite the contrary. As for suppying you, or anyone else, with specific information on girls, that is pimping, plain and simple. I don't need a pimp myself, and neither do you. We give you plenty of detailed information to make your own "arrangements."

I have been known to supply information directly to mongers I know, and to guide them with specifics, usually through PM system. But, frankly, I don't like pointing any "unknown" types toward my harem of girls. I have worked too hard to assemble my harem, and would never foolishly jeapardize it with such carelessness.

Prok says that...
"Too much "We are Vets", "my girls", "his girl" stuff.

I can not begin to relate to you the numbers of PM inquiries I receive from members who read this board asking me for detailed information about Monterrey. Those numbers of inquiries are a direct result of my contributions made to this board, and directly related to my visibility here.

I am not ashamed to refer to my friends as "vets." As for me, I am a vet, especially with respect to Monterrey, but not only Monterrey, but Bangkok, Pattaya, Manila, Angeles City, Jakarta, Batam, Singapore, Cambodia, Colombia, Costa Rica, and Panama. Whether you want to except my self proclamation or not, I think my experience qualifies me to proclaim that status, not that I really give a shit about proclaiming that status or not. I guess my point is that I think that for you to bring my choice of symantics up in this discussion is extremely petty, and to be so petty is the very thing that scares off whatever lurkers that might ever contemplate making inquiries, comments, etc...

As Carlos indicated, none of the Monterrey "vets," frequent the massage parlors. That's not meant as a criticism of those who do, it's just a reflection of our own personal preferences. If we can be of assistance to those visiting the massage parlors we surely would, but we are not "vets" in that arena, and we admit honestly to it.

Prok Says...
" If these girls are REALLY just your private girlfriends and wont go out with anyone else, then there is no need to talk about them here. But I also think you guys give yourselves a bit too much credit. I may be wrong, but somehow I doubt these ladies are in love with you. They are pros and work for money. They can never do a salida with us because you don't post any names or info. Rather self-fulfilling prediction."

You have no comprehension about the extent to which we have cultivated relationships with some of these girls. Nobody ever said these girls were not in the business of going out for money, because they do, some more readily than others. You are totally missing the point of our posts with respect to the nature of our relationships with these girls. We, the "vets," receive a level of performance from our "girlfriends" that most visitors to Monterrey will never, ever be fortunate enough to experience. It isn't that we are so good at it, it's merely a matter of experience in the Monterrey venue, and it's directly attributable to our own willingness to learn from our mistakes, our willingness to learn from the experiences of the other vets in our midst, and to constantly be honing the skills necessary to achieve "worldclass" performances in a Mexican venue, a venue that is otherwise regarded by most professional mongers as quite poor otherwise, myself included. I suspect that if you paid more attention to our exploits you might learn a thing or two, instead of doubting the veracity of our claims. As I mentioned, we are not gloating over our successes, we are attempting to guide other visitors to Monterrey so they will not be gyped in the process of learning the ropes.

Prok says...
"Finally, just as Nibu Rafael has his own little section maybe USB could have a thread just for him? That would cut out 70% of the words and make finding info so much easier. Those who want to chat with him can post there and the rest put hard info on the forum."

You can rest assured that those inquiring individuals that are PMing me regularly with questions about Monterrey receive an absolutely huge amount of useful information back from me, in much the same prolific manner as you're used to reading from me here in the public forum. It's funny that when they needed that information, they never complained that I was giving them too much information.

There are many lurkers that read this forum, and they are reluctant to post, not because they can't get a word in. It is easy for them to post an inquiry. There is literally nothing to stop them from doing so, not our prolific blather, nothing. I suppose they are reluctant because they are bashful. Why are they bashful??? It's generally because they run the risk of receiving ridicule from overzealous self proclaimed moderators, an all too common circumstance on too many boards, and certainly within some of the other individual sections on ISG.

Your comparison of me to Niby Rafael is a ridiculous analogy. All of my comments on this board are made generally in response to some statement made by another member aimed directly at my circumstances, as a response to a direct appeal for information, or as a rebuttal to...well, you know.

The bottom line is that I am frustrated with some members that criticize the few regular contributors this section does have, a forum that would have surely died had not a select few number of us kept it going over the past several years...and for what. What will replace our blather? I don't see anything new or interesting being posted by anyone other than the "vets," or by the occassional visitor, buddies to the "vets," most of which have gained the majority of their experience in our direct company, or with the information we have provided them in advance of their visits.

I can get behind reasonable critque. I agree that we can limit our cryptic notes to one another, try to reduce some of our blather, etc...But, the bottom line is, we have a right to post, provided we are not in violation of the rules of the board.

For your informatoin, here is a direct quote from Jackson himself...You can access this on the home page.

"Using Ignore Lists (02-08-06)
I just finished responding to more than 100 reported posts, a task that in itself will give anyone a headache, but this particular batch struck me has having an unusually high number of complaints that essentially amounted to one member not liking another member's writing style or report content, which leads me to offer this general suggestion:

If you don't like another Forum Member's reports, then simply add them to your "Ignore List" and you'll never see their reports again.

You can access your personal "Ignore List" under your User CP. Just login, select "User CP" from the top menu bar, then select "Buddy / Ignore Lists" from the left side column."

There, that solves everything guys...

I am still waiting for some of the complainers to post some interesting pertinent information.





"Bottom line...we are not pimps for lazy lurkers that want the information delivered to them on a silver plater"

Posts like this are insulting. I wouldn't characterize Mill Just (formerly Miller2K) as a lazy lurker. And if delivering info makes you a pimp . . . so be it! That is the PURPOSE of this forum! It is NOT a chatroom. I think that may be the basic cause of the problem. Mill has made over a 1000 posts over the years on this the the previous forum and has helped me and many others with his info about Mexico. Plus he's a good guy. Like myself and others, he is frustrated by your style of communication. Too much like a private little club. Too much "We are Vets", "my girls", "his girl" stuff. If these girls are REALLY just your private girlfriends and wont go out with anyone else, then there is no need to talk about them here. But I also think you guys give yourselves a bit too much credit. I may be wrong, but somehow I doubt these ladies are in love with you. They are pros and work for money. They can never do a salida with us because you don't post any names or info. Rather self-fulfilling prediction.

MonterreyDude
03-15-07, 22:10
Mill
Are we now up to point where we falsely express the proverbial sentence "mine is bigger than yours"????
That means the discussion has exhuasted itself...
No more.... finally.
I will not cycle myself to death.

PS: Sir, I do not try to talk anyone down. My colorful ranting was only for the purpose of explaining that I do have some experience here in Monterrey... one that has proven helpful to many, more than once. And I do hope that your experience in your neck of the woods will be helpful to me when I vist your town... as mine did when you came to my neck of the woods.

PPS: By the way guys, have you noticed that Ghostbuster only posted a couple of times, I offered help as in "please ask your questions" as I always do and he has asked none? No specific questions, not even a whisper? For someone that demands a lot, sure is not looking for something at all.






Please don't try to talk down to me because, as I thought you knew, I have been living in Mexico for quite a long time as well and know my way around a tittie bar or two.

But thanks anyway...

Mill Just
03-15-07, 22:43
For your informatoin, here is a direct quote from Jackson himself...You can access this on the home page.

"The Forum is not a chat room, it's a permanent archive of TRAVEL REPORTS."

'nuff said.


Proko, What's most frustrating is that they just don't see what's wrong with the way they have been using this forum like a private MySpace homepage. But I do feel that I have to address some things before I get the hell out.

Uno said: "But, I must also point out that not all the posted blather is worthless meaningless drivel, not if the reader is sharp. Frankly, there are too many lazy lurkers, too many bitching wanna be's, and too few legitimate contributors here. Some of what is posted within the blather is meaningful and useful strategically. But, it takes an especially discerning reader to process it as such....Bottom line...we are not pimps for the lazy lurkers that want the information delivered to them on a silver plater, most of which we gladly do anyway when asked directly...I will attempt to limit my blather in an effort to be a "good citizen" of the board. But, if we all agree to do that, I suspect the board will be very, very, quiet indeed. I for one, will probably lose interst in checking it. It will be up to the rest of you to populate these pages with all this meaningful information that is apparently lacking then."

So what if few people post? What's important is quality, not quantity. I would prefer 50 really precise, informative reports as opposed to 100 pages of garbage that means nothing to nobody except for 3 people. Why do you think people send you PM's and not just ask for info on the board? Its because with all the off topic blubbering, one almost feels uncomfortable asking for info. You guys are just so far into your own world that a guy feels like an idiot for trying to stay on topic. Then Proko posts a legit report and gets lambasted, basically called an idiot in an indirect way for providing the info because it doesn't gel with what you guys feel is really important (like how you miss a certain girl and how carlos likes fat asses). Proko's report was a long time ago and there hasn't been a legit report in the Monterrey section since. So what if this board is quiet? Let it be an area where people come to get specific information about mongering in Monterrey in a precise manner. When only 3 people post on a message board that has over a 100,000 members, that means people are just staying away and that the board is dying a slow death.

And with respect to not being a pimp and not being willing to hand out information: Then why are you a member of ISG? I'm sure when you were new here, you reaped the benefits of some helpful posts and some specific information. And now that you got what you wanted, you refuse that same courtesy to the next generation? That's just being selfish.


Carlos says: "Mill, Iam totally dissapointed with you.
Have I ever given you the run-around?
Have I ever given someone the run-around?
Never.
If they come down to Monterrey, I help them if they ask questions... specific questions like you did, and Prokofiev did.
Reports...
This is intresting cause the board now stands divided.
People coming down here just love Unspongebob's posts.
Now it turns out they are soaps...
And Mill and Pro... you just don't get the "my girl" thing.
If you could only see us, both Wasted and me, sitting at the Infinito 7 PM line up, you'd understand the meaning of "my girl".
In a sense they have become "our girls", but it's impossible to explain, cause I don't think you understand the point of view of a "loyal" customer. One that sees the same girls week after week as I do or as Wasted does.
You just won't get it till you do the rounds with us.
This thread benefits from the posts of those that participate, not from the ones that think that they are participating reading and getting all the benefits with nothing in return."

Carlos, you just don't get it. It's not about you being a nice guy. I'm sure you are. And there is nothing so mystical about Monterrey that just leaves you without words. There is nothing to stop you Monterrey regulars from posting informative posts, mentioning specifics. The fact that there aren't any specifics EVER mentioned makes me start to think that maybe there are a lot of exaggerations going on. I also suspect that maybe you have a little more interest in getting the gringos to the clubs than just wanting to "protect" us stupid gringos. Maybe your interest is a lot more selfish than you would like them to believe. Can anyone say "kickback?"

Regardless, do you actually believe that all the "G" girl at the "I" place posts is helping anybody? If all the posts on the ISG were like that, then nobody would ever now anything about anything. And if you think that you are better than the rest and deem us untrustworthy or stupid, then keep your thoughts and abbreviations in private e-mails and leave this board to those that want to learn something useful.

Like I said to USB, all the off topic, inane banter has created an atmosphere not conducive to on topic talk.

Now, I'll just go back to being a lazy lurker who still has no idea why the "I girl at the "M" place is angry with the "P" girl...


P.S.

Ghostbuster is most likely an idiot, but even idiots sometimes hit the nail on the head.

Mill Just
03-15-07, 22:58
Wow Porko, although Carlos and USB are my very very good friends, I can not, for the life of me, argue with what you said. <-- Period

One piece of advice, if you must address USB's long posts, you should expect a longer reply from him. I learned that the hard way. But USB is a great writer and many readers look forward to his reports. At the risk of being rude, I'd say, if you do not like his reports, add him to your ignore list. This will cut your search by 60% or 80%. You yourself obviously do read his reports.

Another point, and I am surprised Carlos did not bring it up yet, is that some visitors, get this, print out a report and take it to the club. They will look for the girl in the report and read it to her asking for the same service. Do you think I will ever declare a girl's name knowing what 'others' might do? Especially since I am, I think, the most frequent visitor to MTY and I have my circle of girls? No way my friend. The last thing I want to hear is, ok here it comes, my 'X' girl shaking her finger at me because some dude has a full report of what I did with her. No thanks. If you only knew 'X" you'd understand. She would cut my balls off. I'm sure the group who knows me, and, her will agree.

Anyways, It's refreshing to see other post here. Be it an argument or comments. This is a public board and we are all entitled to our own opinions.

I have yet to try a MP in MTY. I don't even know what they look like on the inside. If others like them, there must be something good about them.

And finally, I will confirm Carlos' comments about 'our' girls. You MUST hang out with us to understand. It is unlike any other mongering adventures you have ever seen. It is, with the full meaning of the word, SPECIAL. For some odd reason, the word ‘Harem’ comes to mind. I mean, come on, during the line up at Prestige last time I was there, all but 3 girls shouted out my name when they realized I was there. The 3 others were new.

Oh, one final-final word. I tried to grab one girl once at the Infinito during the lineup. My girls, on stage, yelled '"No, no, She is Carlos' girl". Does that give you an idea? Of course I knew that but the son of a fish, Carlos, grabbed one of my girls, followed me upstairs and switched girls with me. Grrrrrrr.

Wasted

Thanks for mentioning that, wasted. Now I won't have to go to Monterrey since all the girls have already been taken and reserved for one of you 3 guys. I guess no body else can get laid in Monterrey unless one of you 3 retire. (Tongue firmly in cheek)

El Cabron 007
03-15-07, 23:03
I give up .....


Thanks for mentioning that, wasted. Now I won't have to go to Monterrey since all the girls have already been taken and reserved for one of you 3 guys. I guess no body else can get laid in Monterrey unless one of you 3 retire. (Tongue firmly in cheek)

Mill Just
03-15-07, 23:11
Here's a specific question for Carlos and I will leave this nuthouse forever.

Carlos, can you honestly say that you get no monetary benefit from having these guys go the clubs? On second thought, theres no need to answer. Never mind. Have a nice life.

El Cabron 007
03-15-07, 23:13
Cute .. so very cute.


Here's a specific question for Carlos and I will leave this nuthouse forever.

Carlos, can you honestly say that you get no monetary benefit from having these guys go the clubs? On second thought, theres no need to answer. Never mind. Have a nice life.

Mill Just
03-16-07, 05:27
Uno, I don't need anybody's personal advice on how to monger, but others without our experience might.

And while indirectly doubting my ability, you should look at yourself. A really experienced monger wouldn't be all sappy and fall in love with a prostitute like you do. Man, you are an extortion and/or kidnapping ready to happen. Real, experienced mongers like to trade info on girls if not for personal use, at least to know and get a general feel of the area.

Now get back to that bar hooker who really loves you...;)

MonterreyDude
03-16-07, 09:12
oh my god, this is really the best of the lot for last...
i do not get a single penny from the clubs as payback... you really insulted me with this one.
well, insulted me... not!!!!
really, what you just said is a biggie... a nice little joke. made me grin. crack in laughter and i am just back from my regular club hopping (2:15 am). best joke of the day.
mill it's the other way around... i help the guys personally not to get ripped off but it seems you are now swiming in another channel.
do you think iam trash?
do you think iam lower mexican trash class?
(thank god i live in mexico where we have freedom of speech)
you are way off by a light year.
god, am gonna post this at my local monterrey yahoo group... you are going to be the laughing stock of my friends and members...
or better yet, come on over to monterrey, we'll meet, shake hands, smoke the peace pipe, have lunch at the clubs and enjoy life...





here's a specific question for carlos and i will leave this nuthouse forever.

carlos, can you honestly say that you get no monetary benefit from having these guys go the clubs? on second thought, theres no need to answer. never mind. have a nice life.

Mill Just
03-16-07, 23:59
No reports are better than the drivel and pap written here sometimes.

And, Uno, for your information I think we pretty much enjoy the same type of mongering with plenty of GFE and what not. As a local in Morelia, I get that service quite often, but I don't feel the need to drone on and on about it. It's just not fair for 99% of the readers out there who can't get that service because they don't live here or don't visit enough to establish relationships. So, then what's the point of commenting on something that you know is atypical and out of the reach of almost everybody? The only reason would be to stroke your own ego. I don't particularly enjoy the massage girls, either, but they are a real economical option for people that don't spend your kind of obsessive time in Mexico.

Also for your information, I didn't get angered until you and carlos started talking down to us like we are newbie idiots when we say something for the betterment of the board. You are the worst type of monger- one who lords his knowledge over others and looks down on the rest. And to be honest, you have to admit that your long drwon-out posts are more about you than trying to educate anybody. Have a nice life.

Mill Just
03-17-07, 05:59
Mil says: Also for your information, I didn't get angered until you and carlos started talking down to us like we are newbie idiots when we say something for the betterment of the board.

Talking about betterment...
Well, I don't see you posting anything new on your all your trips to Monterrey... nothing at all. I just checked your posts and yes, you are very active in the Morelia section.
But I just don't see any trip reports from our good city of Monterrey.
Have you been here? Am I wrong or what?
If am wrong and you haven´t been here and you just don't plan in coming to Monterrey, why do you care if we post or don't post?
What is your intrest in Monterrey? business... good. Talk to me and I'll point you in the right direction: good honest lawyers, areas for businesses, who are the strongest ones et al.

About being a Newbie... yes Mil you are a newbie compared to me.
And Iam proud and love to boast that I have more experience than anyone around me at the clubs. The girls, (they are surprised to hear me talk about 3somes when they weren't even born) the managers, the owners are surprised to hear my stories of old.
I think you didn't read my post that I have been doing clubs since 1981 and up to the 2007, nonstop. That sums up 25 years going on 26.
Not even pausing for a happily marriage that has lasted 15 years last month.
You... 7 years... please. You wern't even here in back in the 80's when the *****houses ruled, when everything was done bareback even with prostitutes. You wern't a witness in the early 90's to the demiss of the *****houses when they were displaced by the strip clubs of today.
You weren't here when American girls came in the mid 90's to work at the Amnesia club cause there was more mony here than in the USA.
You weren't here when I was part of a town hall meeting and I spoke defending the rights of the girls to their jobs and the clubs.
Yes indeed, you can only dream all of what I have seen...

I know I know.. yes Mil, you are going to counter this with: "I just don't care... it is not in my intrest". Nothing is in you intrest... As a matter of fact, nothing posted in the Monterrey Thread is in your intrest, cause nothing ever posted by anyone triggered a Trip Report from you and that's the bottom line.

I'll strike a bargin with you Mil: Post a Monterrey trip report a good one, not yesterday news nor a simple visit to the MPs and I'll personaly convice everyone to move the conversations to PMs.
BUT USB postings stay, cause maybe you hate them, but there are MANY that like his reports... yes many, and they out weight you totally.

Deal?

:::Yawn:::

MonterreyDude
03-17-07, 07:43
"Yawn"????
Oh, I see... no deal.

and due to your one word answer...
Mil, please refrain from posting if you have no valuable information to us Monterrey thread posters.
We just ended a couple of days of cross posting in a usless fight that ended in nothing thanks to your "yawn".
To no avail it turns out that in reality you have nothing to report, nothing to add to the database that can help visitors to Monterrey.
If we are traveling to Morelia and need information from Morelia, we'll check out the Thread where you post and be asured that if we travel to Morelia, we'll post our trip report and if not, we will not bother you at all.

Thank and good night sir.






:::Yawn:::

Mill Just
03-17-07, 08:23
To all you guys that know the Infinito MC, today Friday was kind of wild at the floor, more than at the privados as it is use too.
New girls are coming in, a couple that are really new to the scene, like Sol (in future references she'll be S2) that refuses to be groped at the stage and is really really serious girl at the privados.
Although she sticks to the 300 FS price, she seem not to be content at charging this.
Why do I mention her? Cause she is pretty, nice face and body. I hope she adapts well to the Infinito scene.
And yes there are others... dunno the names yet.
J girl (Janice, to those that just joined us, and not part of my Sacred Flock), was angry that I on the spot found out the names and how they conduct themselves in private... told her that I just adore anything with a big ass (as posted way below).
Tomorrow I'll get the names of the 3 or 4 new girls in town.
Meanwhile, at 8:30 PM they had NINE girls dancing at the 2 stages. 5 and 4. At the stage where they had the 5, there are only 4 poles, so 2 girls were fighting to gain control of one.
Total girls at the club at that time: 35 between the afternoon and night shift girls...
Great to see the Infinito up to grade after being so slow in the month of February....

See? A nice, concise and informative post. Was that so hard? I'm so proud of my little Carlitos! Good boy!

I feel that I stand vindicated at least to a slight degree that my OPINIONS on the direction of the Monterrey board at least resulted in one on-topic post. I guess Carlitos was feeling that maybe all the confrontation here would hurt the kickbacks he gets for bringing you guys down.

It was almost (and I mean almost) worth having to deal with little Carlitos for the last couple of days.

Good night my dear Carlitos and keep up the good work! And you know what you can do with that peace pipe, right?

By the way, I deleted all my offending posts. I feel a certain loyalty to the ISG for usually providing such a great informational tool for us mongers and I wouldn't want to waste bandwith on things that don't have to do with getting laid. (Ahem, Uno?)

Good night to all and to all a good night. My job is done here.

Mill Just
03-21-07, 11:49
Hi Fellas, I was thinking things over and decided to make my first real, informative post here on the Monterrey board after a brief 2 day excursion. Please read every word. You won't be disappointed. I have jam-packed this trip report with a lot of specific information. Enjoy!


Day 1- Longings and Misgivings in Monterrey

I had come in to "?" before "C" arrived, and informed the waiter that I was going to pay the salida for her and that we would be leaving as soon as she arrived. When she showed up, they told her to take me upstairs and I was asked if I wanted a Jarra (pitcher of whatever for the girl). I told the waiter that I was paying the salida, and we were wanting to leave immediately. Next thing I know, the waiter is bringing me a Jarra. I decided that perhaps they wanted me to buy at least one Jarra first, and then they would let me go. You know, I thought they wanted to bleed the gringo a little before letting him loose. So, I paid for the Jarra, and my girl was sitting next me, and she says something like "what is the problem? What are they doing?". She tells me to wait a minute, and she takes off upstairs somewhere. I guess she went to find out what was going on.

She had asked me to watch her purse, and I noticed she had been gone for a very long time. Later, I notice one of the waiters picking up her purse and heading downstairs. I thought this was suspicious so I followed the waiter with the intent of trying to keep track of her stuff. I entered the stairwell to the first floor, and I see her talking to two management types. She is visibly angry and arguing with these two guys in very passionate Spanish.

Later she told me they were pressuring her to milk me for all she could. I don't know much Spanish, but she said they wanted her to stay there and work. I guess she meant they wanted her to stay there and work me over for as much money first, and then get my salida. She got mad at them because they had insisted that she get dressed for work and keep me there for as long as possible before leaving.

She got really pissed at them for trying to work me over, and she quit her job right there on the spot. They weren't going to pay her anything for her weeks work, and she really got mad at them. They finally paid up, but they still didn't pay her for a least a couple nights work. She was really mad at them and she swears she will never work for "?" again. This girl has proved to me that she genuinely cares for me. I am absolutely astounded that she lost her job over not wanting to milk me. Anyway, we left "?" and went to my hotel.

During the day on Tuesday, I had purchased a gift for her, and I had it wrapped in very pretty paper with a nice pretty red bow. I had it sitting on the chair in my room. When we arrived she was so distracted by what had happened that she didn't acknowledge the beautifully wrapped, relatively large package sitting almost immediately next to her on the chair next to the couch. We talked briefly about the nights events, and I told her I had a surprise for her. I pointed to the gift on the chair, and she started to cry. She speaks very little English, but she said "I so happy!". This girl just lost her job, and she's happy!

Anyway, she said she would not charge me anything to be with her, and she said that she loves me. I believe she does, or thinks she does anyway. We are really good together. It's not your typical mongering situation. However, I'm having second thoughts about whether it is wise of me to romance these girls any more. I really care for this girl now, and I can see that my desire for romance may be ultimately creating emotional dilemas that are difficult for me to deal with, not to mention the effect it has on the girl, who I have come to adore. She has some close friends at another club, and later Tuesday night she had already worked out an arrangement to work at the other club, and she was on the job the next day. She asked me to come with her Tuesday night to the new club for one drink, which I agreed to do. After I arrived there, it became obvious to me that she was introducing me to all her friends and kind of showing me off. She was calling me her novio and everything. By the way, I do consider myself to be her novio too because we are so good together, and it doesn't cost me anything to be with her. I mean the cost is no more than an average GFE where you buy gifts, dinner, etc... I never thought I could get into this much trouble after only two visits to Monterrey. Amazing isn't it! "C", I probably should have met with you Tuesday night...I need a chaparone don' t you think?

Day 2 - Tragedies of the Heart and Awakenings of the Mind.

I met my good friend, "C" for lunch and some good conversation. "C" took me over to "McD's", which is a fast food restaurant. I had a Big "M" with lots of "F's" Thanks to "C" for a really great afternoon of amusing discussion about work, girls, play, girls, business, girls, and more girls, and more girls (HA HA HA). "C" and I stayed together until about 7-7:30pm, but he had to take off to attend to family matters Saturday night.

Well, the first place I visited Saturday night was the "E" place. I have been trying to get a girl to see me outside of "E" for literally weeks. This girl is a really charming and beautiful flaca morena (my favoritas). She has promised to meet me outside "E" no less than four times, and each time she has stood me up. But, even with all the abuse, I still love being with her. She is one of the girls I find to be the most fun, and it has to do with the way we relate when I am with her more than her appearance, which is perfect too. There are literally thousands of very beautiful flaca morenas here in Monterrey, but they do not all have the charm I'm looking for. This girl has what I want. She is truely a professional in her job, and she knows how to charm me beyond my ability to reason. I know I have been a fool to continue to patronize her, but she knows how to push all the right buttons. I have looked for another girl who is capable of this same charisma, but the only other girl that even came close was my girl, "G", from "?".

Anyway, this girl at "E" had stood me up one time too many, and she kept promising to meet me outside the club. Undoubtedly, her motivation was to get me to continue buying Harras. But, I finally became fed up with her treatment last night, and decided to teach here a lesson. I went to "?", and instead of patronizing my girl, I went with another girl, and I vowed not to patronize my girl at all. In the past, I had tried this before but always buckled under the pressure of her charms. But, tonight would be different. I bought a Harra for this new girl, and my other girl got wind that I was in the place patronizing another girl. All of a sudden my cell phone starts ringing off the hook. So, I ran out onto the street to get away from the deafeningly loud music to answer the cell phone, and guess what, it is my girl asking me where I am, etc...Wow, what a coincidence. Obviously, a waiter must have told her I was there, but she acted like she had just called me out of the blue.

You see, I am very well known there at "E", and I usually drop at least $75-$100 on Harras, and I am an important customer to the management So, when I started to act like I was going to leave early because my girl wouldn't see me outside of "E", and do a salida with me, the waiter started to panic. So, that is when I started to get phone calls on my cell phone from my girl. She had not come out on the floor of the club yet. I guess she was still in back getting dressed, but as soon as I was talking about trying to leave, they brought out the big guns by having her call my cell phone to try to get me to stay.

What a bunch of crap!!!! They must think we are totally stupid. I may be foolish, but I am far from stupid. Anyway, my girl finally came from upstairs and sat with me on one of the padded couches against the front corner of the building. She tried everything to get me to stay, but I was strong. I politely told her she had been dishonest with me from the start, and that I really liked her very much, but that I was done being manipulated by her. I told her I would not spend another freakin dime on her. I told her that if she wants to reverse the trend, she should call me the next day so we can arrange to meet outside the club. I gave her my room number and and a brochure from the hotel. But, I´m still waiting for her call...And, I really don't expect her to call me.

Actually, it probably isn't really her fault because she told me up front in the very beginning that she does not do anything on site, nor does she do salidas with anyone. But, like a hard headed monger, I thought I could change her mind. Just a word of warning, if they tell you they do nothing, move on right away and don´t waste precious time on false promises (time is more valuable than money).

Well, I have moved on now after last night, and I am seeking a girl who has sufficient personality to take her place. They are not easy to find, but I'm looking.

OK, that's the "E" installment...I have much more to tell. On my next stop, I saw my old flame, "G", originally from "?", over at the "P" place for the first time in 4 or 5 months, and it was like a double edged sword. Those of you who know me will think I am imagining things, or that "G" is insincere, but I think she is sincere with me...at least I want to believe it, and she had me convinced. But, as there has been more time between these events, I wonder if I am merely caught in one of the intoxicating webs these girls spin. Afterall, they are professional manipulators, and con women.

When I first went into the club, I was walking to a table, and "G" and I almost bumped into each other. When our eyes met, I had feelings that I really can't even put into words. It was like I was seeing my daughter and my lover all in one person. Yikes! Did I really say that? We had been emotionally attached over the last several months, and I think our relationship surpassed that which is typically experienced by most mongers. I relate the depth of my feelings as a warning to other mongers not to seek a romantic and emotional relationship with these girls.

It hurts to realize that you were engaged in a relationship with someone that you can never really have a true relationship with. It is very sad, but when our eyes met, not a word had to be spoken to convey the strong emotional feelings that I know were there between us. Not only an emotional attachment, but also a very strong amount of regret. We will never really be able to take it to the level of a traditional relationship. How very sad...but true. My advise...don't head down that road.

Anyway, "G" had to leave me to go do her dance sets, then when she was done, she went into the bathroom immediately after finishing her dances.

Guys, when I saw her dance, it reafirmed why I love her. She has the body of a porn star...she is the best looking I have ever seen her. She is the most beautiful girl I have ever seen in Monterrey. But, in addition to her face and body, she has a personality that is the most intoxicating I have ever found, and I have looked for replacements. She has a very mystical way that is really hard to explain.

When she came out of the bathroom after finishing her dance sets, I could tell that she had been crying. She was worrying about her eye makeup and drying the corners of her eyes so as not to smear everything up.

Anyway, I took her to a privado booth, and she blurts out that she is married now, and that she had been married for about 4 months. She told me that prior to marrying, she loved two hombres, me and her boyfriend, who she met after I left Monterrey the last time I saw her in September. I could see the pain of that reality in her eyes, and it seemed real to me.

Anyway, "G" told me she loved me with tears in her eyes, but that she is committed to her husband...I am fine with that because it is the right thing for her to do, but, as I said, I am deeply saddened too. I will always love this girl...and she knows that. She told me she was so disturbed because she loved us both at the same time prior to getting married. She said she knows I am married, and that we would never have a chance at a real relationship so she chose her husband over me.

As I said, our relationship had become extraordinarily emotional, and I could tell that she liked being with me a lot. So, when she met her present husband, about a month after I had left Monterrey. she was in turmoil because she said she still loved me. At one point, I remember she saw me again several months later, we met for just a couple of hours (no sex, just dinner), and she tried to tell me about her circumstances then, but she was not able to. She was crying then too, but she wouldn't or couldn't tell me why. I don't know if she was ready to slam the door on seeing me at that time, but it must have been right before she decided to marry.

Man, this is such a painful thing to have to go through. I relate the vivid details so some of you might be able to avoid the pain of a similar situation. Seeing her again was like heaven, but having to say goodbye last night was sooooo hard. She asked for my email and asked me to call her. She was very sincere, and every time we looked into each others eyes she had tears.

I know, many of you are cold after years of mongering activity, and you will say she is merely an actress. Of course, I realize that is always a possibility, but I don´t think so. I think her emotions were genuine. It was a priviledge to have been with her, even for a short time., and I will never forget her.

In the morning of my third day in Monterrey, I stopped back at "McD's" and had the breakfast. Not bad. I had the "H" Cakes with the "E" McMuffin and a glass of "O" Juice. I will never forget the love I shared on my two brief days in Monterrey. A special thanks to "C" for his maps and his backrubs.

El Cabron 007
03-21-07, 15:32
For heaven's sake... One USb is enough :-) now two?

Is this what they call a taste of your own medicine?

Mill - the "I" place aint got no couches. They got chairs with wrinkled cushions that'll make your ass sore. And neither do the girls go to the backroom. Their dressing rooms are upstairs.

And to think that I actually read the entire post. What was I thinking?

Welcome back Mill. I always loved your posts. Although your comments were funnier. I would rather see you make sarcastic remarks and call us names than this. Your comments have always been cool.

Hey USb, you know I love you man.

Carlos, here's a challenge for you: Get Mill, Proko and USb to come down together and I will come down for a final trip. I want to hang out with these two guys. I think we'll have the craziest time of our lives. I'll even bring Mr. "L" to seal the deal. You will have your hands full.

Want better incentives? I'll book and pay for Mill & Proko's room (1 room) at the PDA for the weekend. This is in addition to another room for you, Carlos, for 1 night to salida a special someone.

But wait; if you call now, I'll even have a group of the Infinito girls to come out with us to a dance club on Friday and/or Saturday night to make sure we get blasted. Be ready for one hell of a night.

Wasted


Hi Fellas, I was thinking things over and decided to make my first real, informative post here on the Monterrey board after a brief 2 day excursion. Please read every word. You won't be disappointed. I have jam-packed this trip report with a lot of specific information. Enjoy!

.

Mill Just
03-21-07, 19:15
I'm sorry if some of you guys feel that my posts are too cryptic or vague, but I can't tell you how many people have written to me with great compliments and, if Jackson comes to his senses and raises the PM character limit to 25,000, I will be able to help all my fans even more. Now, back to my posts. While they are indeed directed toward a Monterrey "Vet" audience and contain some info intended primarily for them, the sharp observer can get a whole lot of useful information

For example, I just remembered a very funny thing that happened to me on my last trip to Monterrey, and I've been promising myself to relate this to the board when I finally remember such trivia as I'm sitting in front of my keyboard.

Last time I was in Monterrey, I took a girl back with me from "?" (not my favorita either, "C" and "P", but a new girl).

Anyway, I had three or four of these breath strip packs sitting on the dresser. So, this girl is messing with my breath strips, and taking the breath strips out of my partially used containers, the ones that only have a few breath strips left in each, and restocking one of my empty containers with the strips from all the other containers. In other words, she was in the process of consolidating my partially empty breath strip containers into one full and completely well stocked, and virtually overflowing container.

Now, while she was doing this, I wasn't paying any attention to what she was actually doing, and I didn't fully understand what she was up to. I was engaged in playful banter with this chica, who was trying to convince me to give her more money because of her baby's doctor's visits, etc... Of course, I was being a hard sell, and she was continuing to distract me with playful conversation as she consolidated my breath strips into one, easy to lose track of, container.

Now remember, I had just come back from my home a couple of weeks earlier, where my wife waited on me hand and foot, and treated me like a king. So, I had lost my edge on what to expect from our precious Mexicanas. So, you will have to excuse me, because my guard was down, and I didn't really think about what she was up to.

Anyway, later on, I went to get a breath strip...and low and behold, there is not a container to be found anywhere in the room.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I couldn't believe it!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry for being such a dumb, socially retarded putz...I know she ripped me off, but once I realized the amount of discipline and entreprenuerial commitment that was required to rip me off for a full, rather than a partial, container of breath strips, I just couldn't stop laughing. I still can't stop laughing about it to this day. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I better lock up my underwear next time. Don't worry, there won't be a next time with this one, but I might bar fine her just for a few laughs because I love her and she loves me. Maybe you might doubt it, but I KNOW what true love is like and we are just so great together.

Now, for the life of me, I just can't see how someone would say that this post isn't informational. I don't get it! It provides great insider info to all those who come to Monterrey and use, have used or will use breath strips. Great stuff!!!

Mill Just
03-26-07, 10:05
hey guys, i came across this article in the san antonio newspaper website and thought it might interest you. be safe, guys.

monterrey reeling as 10 slain in week of bloody cartel battles

web posted: 03/16/2007 08:51 pm cdt

sean mattson
express-news mexico correspondent

monterrey, mexico — tough-talking politicos and army-patrolled streets have not stopped drug-gang killings that are increasingly targeting law enforcement in mexico's leading northern city.

five police officers were among 10 people slain in a half-dozen attacks in monterrey since tuesday. in the most brazen, at least three gunmen stormed a jewelry store on a busy downtown avenue wednesday, killing a police commander, his wife, a customer and a security guard.

the assailants escaped.

the latest wave of killings has this proud industrial center just two hours from the border wondering just how bad things can get.

"if we continue at this pace ... we're going to surpass 100 (execution-style) homicides," said rodrigo plancarte, the director of the nuevo león chapter of coparmex, one of mexico's leading chambers of commerce.

"in all of history we haven't had situations of this nature," he said.

monterrey had been largely unrep001hed by a bloody turf war between drug cartels that erupted along the texas-mexico border more than two years ago.

but at least 13 law officers are among the 28 people killed in 2007 in and around monterrey. more than 50 executions were registered in the state of nuevo león last year, according to media tallies.

few arrests have been made and authorities have become increasingly tight-lipped, refusing to comment friday on the killing of two police officers in separate attacks in the early hours of the day.

state attorney general luis carlos treviño told local media on thursday that the police killings could be revenge for disrupting gang activity, for "an active or passive participation" or to "send signals to police departments to try to intimidate them."

authorities agree the violence stems from a dispute between the gulf and sinaloa cartels, a battle that the gulf cartel appears to be winning on the border.

the gulf cartel's armed wing, army defectors known as the zetas, are attacking the sinaloa cartel's monterrey trafficking stronghold. an additional dispute is over local distribution for a growing number of mexican drug users, say authorities.

despite a federal and state crackdown, "the problem is if there aren't any arrests, we can't apply the law," said fernando kuri, a state legislator with the national action party, or pan, who said it was difficult to understand how killers repeatedly escape from daylight shooting scenes in the middle of a congested city.

kuri, like many, worries about the city's image in the run-up to a major international exposition and conference it will host later this year.

"what face are we going to show the world if we have a city plagued with crime and murders?" he asked.

=================================================

and then , i came across this from the same website's blog

march 20, 2007

monterrey's 30th execution "is only the beginning"

the 30th presumably drug-cartel related execution in nuevo león state this year was one of the most macabre to date.

a man in his mid-thirties was found last night on the city outskirts. he was bound with duct tape, reportedly tortured to death and a written threat was pinned to his chest with an icepick.

the large rectangular piece of fluorescent cardboard threatened the state attorney general and the secretary of government, who is the top state official after the governor.

a photo of the retaliatory-sounding note was published by milenio newspaper.

the threat accused the state of protecting sinaloa cartel boss joaquín "el chapo" guzmán.

it ended: "p.s. this is only the beginning."

police have not commented on the gruesome killing.

last week, after a stretch of months during which authorities made no arrests of consequence in connection to the cartel turf war, at least three individuals of interest were taken into custody.

two men were arrested with an arsenal of high-powered weapons after ramming their suv into the back of a truck trailer. they were hospitalized and shipped off to mexico city as federal authorities took over the case.

a police raid on a home resulted in arrests.

local media cited anonymous sources saying that at least one person arrested in the raid had connections to the recent wave of violence, but police have refused to comment.

so, officially, there are no advances against organized crime here to report.

update: nuevo león gov. natividad gonzález told reporters this morning that this threat is not the first one government officials have received.
monterrey has similar slaying 24 hours later

============================================
march 21, 2007

monterrey — 24 hours ago, a body bound with duct tape and shot through the forehead was found on a dirt road on the city's western outskirts.

pinned to the victim's chest was threat penned on cardboard promising "this is only the beginning."

apparently, it was.

another body with a threatening letter was found just minutes ago, 20 yards from where yesterday's corpse was discovered, according to breaking tv news reports.

authorities, as appears customary, have not commented on the latest slaying, which could be the 31st organized crime-caused death so far this year in this border state.

they still have not publicly cleared up yesterday's killing. was he a police officer? was he mixed up with a drug cartel?

worse yet, was he just a guy on the street who the bad guys used as a messenger boy?

tabloid newspapers ran full-page photographs of the victim showing the letter that threatened nuevo león's attorney general and the government secretary.

aldo fasci, a top prosecutor, told reporters today that yesterday's killing was carried out by the gulf cartel, which somehow believes that the state is protecting the rival sinaloa cartel.

the procurador, or a.g., who was threatened, did not face the media today.

government secretary rogelio cerda, who was threatened along with his "children" in yesterday's letter, brushed off reporters earlier today.

who would blame him?

=================================

sources: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/mexico/stories/mysa031707.07a.bloody_week.305bac8.html

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/mexico/archives/2007/03/

Member #3453
03-27-07, 15:05
This guy needs his own thread Carlos...like someone else we know of. By the way, we will meet today at the wildly expensive, 60 pesos lunch extravaganzy at El Prestige? I will kiss your ring when I arrive, but, first, in preparation for your arrival, I will have "Sammy the Bull" secure a table for us. I also have a briefcase full of US dollars to secure your cooperation in getting me girls. Talk about nuts...


No, No, No...please...I don't want any trouble. I will leave quietly. Just letting you know, though, that I have instructed my loved ones to not pay any ransom whatsoever for me...but I'll leave now.

Mill Just
04-13-07, 22:02
The boxer Mike Tyson once said "Love? How can anyone love me when I have so much?" Now, aside from the fact that he is a lousy person overall, he did speak the truth with that statement- at least as it pertains to bar girls and "working" chicas in general.

We are certainly an oddity for the girls, a curiosity. We look different, act different and have a completely different outlook on how they are seen. The typical Mexican sees them as "trash." We don't. We are actually quite appreciative of them because we know how crappy the P4P scene in the states is.

But love? Doubtful. 99% of the chicas that choose to give us GFE see us as a ticket out, either via romantic relationship or through a series of favors that we can provide for them. Many Mexicans of the lower class seek to be friendly with us gringos because we can be a huge asset for them. We are a lifeline to another world, a world where there is more money, more opportunity, better quality products, etc...

I used to feel pangs of guilt for feeding into the industry that is "exploiting" the girls that I care for. I don't anymore because, through years of practical experience, I have found out that they are trying to use us a lot more than we try to use them. I don't mean to sound negative because I am absolutely in love with most of Mexico. However, you must be realistic in the fact that what Mike Tyson said was right. We have so much in comparison to many working girls. How can someone really love us when we have what they so desperately need; and how can we really love them when we know this? It's like if we were standing in the desert with a cup of cold water and a woman, dying of thirst, approached us. She would be looking at the cup of water and not at us, no matter how charming and respectful we are. We could see how much relief we are giving her and how happy she is while drinking the water, but we can't mistake that for love or even affection. I guess what I'm trying to say is that despite our best efforts, it is only natural for the chicas to see us more in terms of what we can give them and not how we are. And, if we are great people, all the better- just the goal for them is to see what they can get from us.

This is not to say that, over time, one can't make a decent relationship with a working chica. it just means that it would be very difficult and you could never be sure if she was with you for you or for what you can provide. It's the reason so many famous, rich celebrities choose to be with prostitutes when they can go to any club and bed practically any girl they want. It's because these guys know that they are the "prize" and love is put way on the back burner.

Take these working chicas in Mexico and offer them nothing other than your respect and charm, and see how long they'll stay. Take away the money, the gifts, the food and the future possibilty of benefit and 99.9% of these chicas would be gone in sec. That's not love.

So, have fun, and be cool. Respect all, but trust none.

Mill

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

El Cabron 007
04-15-07, 01:06
Beautiful observation and damm correct.

I recommended your post to the whatchamacallit thingy, reports of distinction. You translated the scene much better than I did. But the addition of the fact that they are using us more than we are using them is something I did not think about when it came the selected few girls that I see in them clubs.

I recall I was taking out money from an ATM once to pay one of the girls when the stupid ATM showed my balance even though I selected not to "print a receipt". The girl managed to catch it and I watched her freeze for a split second. It was too late to hide it. She did not say a word and I wished she never saw it. Reminded me of when I was having a nice dinner at a nice San Francisco restaurant on Van Ness Ave by the opera house once when a homeless man on the sidewalk stopped and looked at me through the window while I was eating.

I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

Wasted





I used to feel pangs of guilt for feeding into the industry that is "exploiting" the girls that I care for. I don't anymore because, through years of practical experience, I have found out that they are trying to use us a lot more than we try to use them. I don't mean to sound negative because I am absolutely in love with most of Mexico. However, you must be realistic in the fact that what Mike Tyson said was right. We have so much in comparison to many working girls. How can someone really love us when we have what they so desperately need; and how can we really love them when we know this? It's like if we were standing in the desert with a cup of cold water and a woman, dying of thirst, approached us. She would be looking at the cup of water and not at us, no matter how charming and respectful we are. We could see how much relief we are giving her and how happy she is while drinking the water, but we can't mistake that for love or even affection. I guess what I'm trying to say is that despite our best efforts, it is only natural for the chicas to see us more in terms of what we can give them and not how we are. And, if we are great people, all the better- just the goal for them is to see what they can get from us.

Mill

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Mill Just
04-15-07, 18:47
We must make sure they understand....that they are still "trash", but the kind of "trash" we are willing to like...Sorry, maybe I misunderstood.

Anyway, as I was saying: I think that us as mongers should all be aware that while we only want their sex, affection, time, etc; most of them want everything and anything they can get from us. If you're smart, however, the cosmos are in line and everything balances out.


Have fun,

Mill

Mill Just
04-15-07, 23:37
I recall I was taking out money from an ATM once to pay one of the girls when the stupid ATM showed my balance even though I selected not to "print a receipt". The girl managed to catch it and I watched her freeze for a split second. It was too late to hide it. She did not say a word and I wished she never saw it. Reminded me of when I was having a nice dinner at a nice San Francisco restaurant on Van Ness Ave by the opera house once when a homeless man on the sidewalk stopped and looked at me through the window while I was eating.

WastedLOL. That reminds me of the time I brought a young "lady" back to my apartment. She got a glimpse of my pad in an exclusive area, my satellite dish, all the appliances, etc. And she offered me as much sex for as long as possible. Against my better judgement, I let her stay the night because she was such a hottie and in the morning she didn't want to leave. I practically had to push her out the door. Then she began to cry. She was crying about her lousy life and how I had so much. She wanted to know what it was like to live in comfort and she said that she would stay in my apt. While I was working so that she could clean. She promised to leave when I came back. It was about a 30 minute affair and I eventually had to literally push her from my building. Now, I forgot to mention that she was almost half naked while this confrontation was going on. Needless to say, my neighbors never treated me the same way again.

MonterreyDude
04-16-07, 02:47
That, I fully agree with.
It is a balance of forces. A silent war.
One false step, and you are in their hands....



Sorry, maybe I misunderstood.

Anyway, as I was saying: I think that us as mongers should all be aware that while we only want their sex, affection, time, etc; most of them want everything and anything they can get from us. If you're smart, however, the cosmos are in line and everything balances out.


Have fun,

Mill

Mill Just
04-16-07, 07:45
But the real question is, how does their society categorize them...My final say on this matter is that nobody, regardless of their socio-economic level, choice of profession, education level, etc is trash. All of us, born of mothers and red of blood are equals. It's just that some of us were dealt better hands in life. But all of us, from the very richest to the very poorest are doing what we can, what's within our power to make this world a little better for us.

A gringo must remember that, although Mexico is our neighbor, they are very different form us socially and traditionally. Really, worlds apart. Mexico is very, very class-conscious; its a way of distinguishing the us v.s. them concept in a country were there are no different races and all share pretty much the same history. What they do socially, is what we do racially.

And with regards to the Mexican legal system's strategy regarding vice. Well, their strategy is basically one of avoidance. Laws that often contradict eachother and , if probed, really have no teeth whatsoever. It's really the perfect way to deal with vice, especially in a "conservative" country. It sure makes a helluva lot more sense than our puritanical American laws on the matter.

Mill Just
04-23-07, 05:13
Hey Brothas, I just ran across this article about the US State Dept. advising against travelling to Monterrey, among other areas of Mexico:

April 21, 2007, 10:05PM
U.S. issues Mexico travel alert

WASHINGTON — The State Department warned Americans on Friday to be careful while traveling in Mexico — including the Texas-Mexico borderlands, Monterrey and Acapulco — because of recent drug-related violence and kidnappings.

"U.S. citizens residing and traveling in Mexico should exercise caution when in unfamiliar areas and be aware of their surroundings at all times," the department said in a statement that fell short of an official warning against traveling to the country. "Though there is no evidence that U.S. citizens are specifically targeted. (But) Mexican and foreign bystanders have been injured or killed in some violent attacks, demonstrating the heightened risk in public places."

The advisory said drug violence was present in many parts of the country, urban and rural, in recent months, including the execution-style murders of Mexican officials in Nuevo Laredo.

Do a Google search for the complete story and be safe...

Mill

MonterreyDude
04-23-07, 17:38
Let me add a couple of things here.
Also included in a previous advisory is the State of Michoacan where Mill Just posts...
I would like to know if that fact has altered the way of life in Morelia, where MJ lives, or has he in any way detered Americans going his way?
If you check his posts in his section, he doesn't even mention what goes on over there, cause in reality, yes there is violence going on, but not where one threads along.
Same thing happens here in Monterrey, a city of 3.9 million so spread out that some of the executions happen more than 30 minutes away form where I live.
And no, NO Americans have been targeted, no civilians either, but unfortunatly in the 5 months of drug wars here, 3 innocent bystanders have been shot and bought the farm.
Which by the way is considerable less than the 32 shot dead at Virginia Tech in a single hour.
What is happening here is what Bugsy Siegel once said: "we only kill our selves" and that is precisly what is going on.
Every single one of the people killed was in one way or another related to drug traffic, drug sale or drug transport.
Let me tell you people that in no way this has stopped me from doing my club night rounds twice a week, or from doing the afternoon clubs either.
Let me also tell you that since the kilings started, not a single day has my wife told me "be careful out there", not a single one nor do we fear for our lives in general.
(Contrary to living in a country where people are allow by law to bear arms)
Ok, am a local partial to Monterrey.
Let us wait for our good friend Unspongebob to place his most recent trip report here... let's see what he has to say.







Hey Brothas, I just ran across this article about the US State Dept. advising against travelling to Monterrey, among other areas of Mexico:

April 21, 2007, 10:05PM
U.S. issues Mexico travel alert

WASHINGTON — The State Department warned Americans on Friday to be careful while traveling in Mexico — including the Texas-Mexico borderlands, Monterrey and Acapulco — because of recent drug-related violence and kidnappings.

"U.S. citizens residing and traveling in Mexico should exercise caution when in unfamiliar areas and be aware of their surroundings at all times," the department said in a statement that fell short of an official warning against traveling to the country. "Though there is no evidence that U.S. citizens are specifically targeted. (But) Mexican and foreign bystanders have been injured or killed in some violent attacks, demonstrating the heightened risk in public places."

The advisory said drug violence was present in many parts of the country, urban and rural, in recent months, including the execution-style murders of Mexican officials in Nuevo Laredo.

Do a Google search for the complete story and be safe...

Mill

Mill Just
04-23-07, 18:13
I have passed along US State dept. warnings about other areas in Mexico before. It is to be taken into consideration when the US govt advises us Americans against visiting certain places. Can you go there? yes. Will you be safe? Probably. But people need to know these things...especially people who are unfamiliar with Mexico and the potential dangers.

I understand that it is not in the interest of Mexico or other interested parties to say something that would potentially diminish the amount of people going to certain areas of Mexico, but I value my brothers on the board more than the potential blow to Mexico's pockets. Sorry.

I think that what's so scary about the violence in Mexico is not the actual violence, which of course exists in abundance in the US. Rather, its the way nothing every gets done by the Mexican authorities, how they are either unwilling or unable to confront these rogue elements. That places one at the mercy of luck...and sometimes a person's luck runs out. Just like those innocent bystanders at the jewelery store in Monterrey who were gunned down because they happened to be in the crossfire of some drug battles. These people were not involved in drugs, they were just shopping. And the killers will never be caught, just will never be served because the Mexican police are inept and/or corrupt.

Anyway, I will be fair. When the US State Department issues such a strong warning against visiting Morelia, I will post it in that section. I do daily searches regarding the safety of various parts of Mexico because I travel a lot. Do a search for yourself and you won't find any such reportings about Morelia. However, when/if something comes up that would affect the safety of my brother mongers, I will post it.

MonterreyDude
04-23-07, 19:55
Doubt, asides from the fact that I don't agree with people bearing arms, I do totally agree that at Virginia Tech maybe an armed teacher or another student would have stopped him or slowed him down.
But am sure and I can extrapolate from the facts that the man that did the masacre was fully aware of the "no weapons" policy at VT and that is why he was only armed with hand guns.
If he knew that people could have been carring guns around the campus, am sure he would have done the same, but with an assault rifle.
An assault rifle makes any gun a cap pistol.
Someone might have stopped him, but with a higher number of fatalities....

Any way, Monterrey is still here and I am still doing the clubs with no fear for myself as Mill Just is doing his night rounds in Morelia.
The difference between both Morelia, Monterrey and the border towns of Nuevo Laredo and Reynosa is that the authorities of the state of Tamaulipas left those cities alone a long time ago, be it because of corruption or burocratic negligence, and they fell right into the hands of crime in any of it's forms.
Both Morelia and Monterrey are in control of petty crime, that is why there is a sense of order, not of chaos, even in the midst of the drug wars going on.





Violence is a part of any city. The drug trade is fueling a majority of this. I have changed my view of recreational drug use "not harming anyone" after watching Nuevo Laredo lose it's tourist traffic. Alot of hardworking merchants lost thier shops because of "recreational drug use" created a market which people are willing to kill to protect.

But, as far as Virginia Tech. That was a gun free zone. It was illegal for a gun to be on campus. Same with the drug lords in Mexico. Those are not legal guns. But, back to Virginia Tech. It wasn't that he had a gun, it was he had the ONLY gun. One armed teacher or student could have stopped or slowed the killings until the police could take over.

I know it is a silly sound bite but "if guns are illegal only criminals will have guns."

Mill Just
04-26-07, 06:54
first, one thing to keep in mind about selecting night shift girls in the lower end bars like el infinito, givenchy, el cielo, matehuala, versus afternoon girls, is that my experience is that the afternoon girls have much sweeter, gfe kinds of personalities, than the girls working the night shifts. i don't know why this is, but because of it, lately, at least over the last couple of years, i've avoided bar fining girls from the night shift. i am changing that strategy because i want to sample what the night shifts have to offer, and i concluded that perhaps i should keep all of my options open.

one thing i noticed in particular, for example, was a profound personality change in "angry girl" when she moved from the afternoon shift to the night shift. i noticed a pointed difference in her attitude, a personality change, a coldness, a totally pro attitude, etc...one that was not there formerly when she worked the afternoon shift. i don't know what to attribute this distinction to other than perhaps the late hours make them much crabbier, much more hardened due to their biological clocks being off, perhaps the crowds of men are much more mercenary to them...i don't really know why it would result in such a noticeable difference, but there are different kinds of girls on the night shifts versus the afternoon shift.you touched on something very key in this part of your post, uno. you see, there really is no difference between the night shift girls and the afternoon girls. they are the same. exactly the same and with the exact same intention- to separate you from your money. they just adjust their act depending on their client base at the time.

basically, the afternoon shift is for the chicas who are either too ugly to work in primetime or not yet good enough at scamming horny men. the afternoon shift is a training ground for the girls, a way for them to ply their craft. eventually, when they get good at it, they get sent up to the majors at night, already a hardened pro who can and will say anything to get a guy to hand over money to them.

these girls are good, they are experts at pleasing their customers, giving them what they want and saying what they want to hear. after you've spent some time around the working chicas you learn that your little angel, who is so sweet to you, is a total ***** to certain customers and a scam machine to others. this is the same girl, adjusting her game to fit with the client she is serving. a shy girl becomes a horny tart depending on how her customer at the time wants her. some of these girls appear at times to be completely devoid of their own personality, choosing to role play at all times, at least within the confines of their work.

these girls are all things to all people. they will tell you what they think you want to hear. they have us foreigners pretty much sized up and they often execute their act flawlessly, letting us buy into their illusion so that they can get our cash from us. around them we are suddenly the funniest guys in the world, the greatest lovers, the sweetest gentlemen, etc. they will let us believe that we are wooing them and conquering their frigid hearts, when all they really want is money for their next fix, the baby's [CodeWord131] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord131), the rent, etc.

that's why you can never, ever take a working girl's word at face value. by nature, they are con-women. because, if they weren't good at lying to men and scamming on them; if their game wasn't near perfect, they wouldn't be able to work in that profession- their bosses wouldn't tolerate it. these girls must be adept at running game on us or else they would not stay working. if a girl has been working in this profession for over a month, you can bet that she is a mercenary looking to take everything she can from you. she's working at the club to make money and not to fall in love with a guy who is there to pay for sex with her.

these girls see dozens of men a day, hundreds and possibly thousands throughout their career...do you honestly think that of all the people in the world, that we are somehow the ones who the chicas really love and have affection for? c'mon.

treat these girls with respect, but when it comes to our "business" transactions, treat them with the same cold, deliberate style with which you deal with a car salesman. they may give us their sex for a reasonably low price, but their love and respect is out of our reach.

editor's note: i certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the reports of distinction thread. please click here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

MonterreyDude
04-26-07, 17:28
I must point out that there IS a whale of a difference between a girl that does the afternoon shift and one that do the night shift and then a agina a stark difference in all levels of clubs.
Of course, known to readers that acces this thread, there are 10 main clubs that have an afternoon shift:
5 star clubs: Amnesia, Obsession, Prestige.
Moderate priced clubs: Womans and Pasarelas.
Working class clubs: La Cava, Givenchy, Matehuala, Infinito and El Cielo
There is a very noticable difference between the girls at the 5 star clubs and the rest that I have tried to make USB noticed, but of course, it is easier for us Mexicans to catch it than any outsider can.
And that is class. Of course I mean class as in "stripper class".
Afternoon girls, all of them, enjoy a simpler less complicated shift with no pressure from managers that are in turn not hard pressed to get the most amount of money as their counter parts at night have to suffer.
Being that, afternoon girls are easier to have at the table, easier to break down their barriers, easier to convince to see them after hours.
Night shift girls always have a manager or supervisor on their backs pressing them to exploit the customer. Night customers are rough, afternoon customers are almost regular joes and the girls act accordingly.
Also night shift girls, at almost all clubs, make more money within the premises, than outside. That is why Unspongebob almost always gets a cold shoulder from them.
I must point out that Mill Just living in Morelia is now a local boy. He himself has posted in his thread info that if you read between the lines, you'll notice that can only pertain to someone that time has favored with experience.
What he does I do, but like him, I don't post cause it is not usefull for guys coming in to Monterrey or Morelia for a couple of days.
For him and me, there is no difference between girls cause we know where to look, how to treat them and how to make them move in our favor.
But that difference is still there and here in Monterrey it is defined as a vast coldness.

Mill Just
04-26-07, 23:40
I totally agree in what Mill Just more or less said a couple of post down: *****s will always be *****s the moment you turn your back to them, and if you don't look out, working girl instincts will come back on automatic and they will stab you in the back without a second hesitation....Despite our "colored" past, I couldn't have said this better myself. And that's a rule that's true 100% of the time without hesitation. Getting too close to a working chica will turn out bad for you. Period. It just takes some girls a longer period of time to see the best place to stab you in the back, but make no mistake about it, you WILL get stabbed.

MonterreyDude
04-27-07, 08:04
Mill, no "colored" past... please.
Let's keep going at what we know best.
You and I know quite well that it is really dangerous to let a girl get out of ones control.
I've always tell they guys coming down here that without a moment's warning the girls will try to suck you deep into their messed up lives.
We have to be on the look out for that or we will be foder in their hands.
It's best just to move to another girl in a hurry.... if not, that's when the "knife in the back" part comes along!

Explanation of "messed up lives":
1. When they start talking about former boyfriends or husbands.
2. When they start talking of how their family life (mother, father, sisters, brothers) is a mess and they all hate her.
3. When she works and works as a slave at the club and she doesn't even make money for taxi fare and she just keeps going on and on with this subject for all night.

Mill... please. Add your own insight.....






Despite our "colored" past, I couldn't have said this better myself. And that's a rule that's true 100% of the time without hesitation. Getting too close to a working chica will turn out bad for you. Period. It just takes some girls a longer period of time to see the best place to stab you in the back, but make no mistake about it, you WILL get stabbed.

Mill Just
05-18-07, 11:04
Hey guys, just got back from a business vacation in one of my least favorite cities- Los Angeles and I'm just dying to get back in the swing of mongering in Mexico.

Maybe I'm talk about apples and oranges when I compare my experiences in Morelia with those in Monterrey, but I don't think so. I've mongered in dozens of Mexican cities and I've been to Monterrey a few times with an ex-novia of mine who happened to be from Monterrey (a non-pro, so no chance for mongering).

Anyway, the chicas of Mexico can be lazy, not respectful of our time, and, at times non-responsive IF you condition them to be so. That's why we, as the customers, have to walk a fine line when it comes to us looking for that GFE. The same time and energy that we use to cultivate the GFE can also make the chicas even more complacent than they already are. They take us for granted and eventually the attention that they paid us begins to dwindle and the sex gets colder. In order to get a consistently good performance from these chicas you must constantly keep them on their toes, rub their faces in the fact that we see many other girls and keep them guessing about when you will decide to see them next. With the idea in their head that a bad performance on their part might cost them a client, they will perform better. If they know that they have you wrapped around their little finger, they will exploit you and mistreat you, eventually expecting top dollar for bottom of the barrel service, or no service at all.

I make it clear to my preffered chicas that I simply have no time for girls who don't show up on time and don't give me what I want. It is very important for a Mexicana to respect you as a man before they can respect you as a person. Being a bit bull-headed and aggresive goes a long way with these chicas. I still treat them lovingly, romantically and we always have a great time, but being a sappy mandilon will get you absolutely nowhere. As a result, I have at least a half-dozen A-list chicas who provide GFE to me and quite a few others who are a notch below but also give me what I want. Over time, I have actually saved money on my sessions, often having to pay a fraction of what I used to have to pay for the same chica in the past. Freebies also happen very occasionally. But none of this would've happened if I had not won their respect first.

Now, my chicas are on time and my calls and e-mails get answered when before, every chica seemed to mysteriouly "lose" their cell phone when they were supposed to call me. I even have a chica that checks in on me every morning when she leaves the club where she works because she knows that I also stay up all night. We chat like friends, get together once a week and she gives me incredible GFE for a marginal amount. We are friends who expect nothing more than a good time from eachother. She gets paid, I get laid. I like her company, I think she likes my company and the sex is great-all without the drama that sometimes comes along with the GFE.

Having said that, though, some of these chicas are very flaky and you have to do a lot of recon work up front to find the right girls. If you want to have a great time in Mexico you need to have a ton of prospects to fall back on when one girl eventually flakes out on you. For the newbie its essential to not put all his eggs in one basket. Because if you single in on one chica only you will almost always get burned and be forced to either sit in the hotel alone that night or overpay for some last minute chica just out of desperation.

USB is very decisive about what he wants and that works for him precisely because he is very specific in his likes, but there is a big danger for the newbie to focus so hard on one chica at a time. You really need to shoot as many arrows into the air as possible to see which ones stick.

Remember, you have the cash and you're there to spend it on what you like. They need your money more than you need their sex. It really should be a buyer's market- especially when there are so many other options out there.

Mill

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Mill Just
05-18-07, 11:17
It just ocurred to me that we use the abbreviation GFE a lot here. I'd be curious to hear from you guys just what constitutes a Girl Friend Experience for you. I think our answers might differ more than we expect.

For Example, I define a GFE as the following:

* Lots of caressing and foreplay

* a good, long BJ with plenty of teasing and "ball play"

* Sex in various positions

* Multiple sessions

* A good act on her part. Moaning, groaning, grinding, etc. Whether its real on their part is irrelevant. I really could care less about giving a hooker an orgasm. I only care about giving orgasms to my legit novias and amigas. In any case, the working chicas enjoy the money much more than any orgasm.

* A good conversation between romps.

* Ejaculation outside the condom

* And I really do prefer that the chica get the hell out when she's supposed to. I don't want a chica lingering around for 2 hours more than what was promised without sex.

* No drama

* Please no TLN. I can think of nothing less appealing than having a working chica spend the night with you regardless of how many times you have sex.
I usually get bored with a chica (unless she is truly exceptional) after 2 or 3 sessions and I usually just want them to leave so that i can do other things. If I want to spend more time with them, I'll ask them on a real date off the clock.

So, share your definitions of the famous GFE.

Have Fun,

Mill

MonterreyDude
05-18-07, 17:37
To many undemanding and newbie customers a GFE is:

1. A girl that smiles.
2. A girl whose eyes twinkles
3. A girl with a bubbly attitude
4. A girl that hugs a lot
5. A girl that kisses a lot
6. A girl that cuddles
7. A girl that seems "hot" in the privado area
8. A girl that after all this is good in the sack.

I have read 100's of post quoting "this girl was soooooooo hot", "this girl offered the best GFE".
I mean, they ARE getting paid for that and some girls are better doing their jobs than others....

Mil Just has to agree with me that 100% of the girls are only doing an act, a performance on the first try with them.
You have to see through them and make them drop the act to see if they are what you are looking for.
Some girls are so good, that they can maintain the act over and over again even in their sleep, within or outside the club premises, even when doing a simple afternoon salida with the girl like a lunch date, where she'll be all laughs, all twinkles, all hugs...
This is FGFE or Fake Girlfriend Experience
This is what many people fall for.







It just ocurred to me that we use the abbreviation GFE a lot here. I'd be curious to hear from you guys just what constitutes a Girl Friend Experience for you. I think our answers might differ more than we expect.

For Example, I define a GFE as the following:

* Lots of caressing and foreplay

* a good, long BJ with plenty of teasing and "ball play"

* Sex in various positions

* Multiple sessions

* A good conversation between romps.

* Ejaculation outside the condom

* And I really do prefer that the chica get the hell out when she's supposed to. I don't want a chica lingering around for 2 hours more than what was promised without sex.

* No drama

* Please no TLN. I can think of nothing less appealing than having a working chica spend the night with you regardless of how many times you have sex.
I usually get bored with a chica (unless she is truly exceptional) after 2 or 3 sessions and I usually just want them to leave so that i can do other things. If I want to spend more time with them, I'll ask them on a real date off the clock.

So, share your definitions of the famous GFE.

Have Fun,

Mill

Mill Just
05-18-07, 21:14
Mil Just has to agree with me that 100% of the girls are only doing an act, a performance on the first try with them.

You have to see through them and make them drop the act to see if they are what you are looking for.

Some girls are so good, that they can maintain the act over and over again even in their sleep, within or outside the club premises, even when doing a simple afternoon salida with the girl like a lunch date, where she'll be all laughs, all twinkles, all hugs...
This is FGFE or Fake Girlfriend Experience.

This is what many people fall for.True. It's an act. I have been able to penetrate the inner sanctum of some working girls, winning their trust over time. Believe me when I say that they get together and laugh at the poor guys who fall for them and fawn all over them. Calling the guys, "viejos pendejos" and mocking the gifts given to them when, at the moment they received the gifts from the guys, they were most probably all misty-eyed and emotional. These aren't isolated moments among hardened old pros, they are the rule and not the exception.

The emotions of their clients mean nothing to most of them. They only play the game and give their clients what they want. They will tweak the emotions and pull at the heart strings of guys that they see as emotionally vulnerable so that they can get the most benefit for themselves. Once the well dries up, they ditch the guys like bad habits and work on the others. Most working girls juggle many guys at the same time, often giving them GFE and leading them to think that they are the only one, making it appear that they are making sacrifices to see their man, hinting at a more serious relationship to be had later, etc.

The only way to defeat their strategy is to appeal to their greed and their natural jealous nature as women. Make them compete for your time and make sure that they know that they are in a competition for your money. They will work harder and more earnestly. In the end you'll be getting real GFE from 6 chicas instead of the occasional GFE from one who will eventually discard you in favor of a richer, more generous client.

And with regards to USB, he seems to be happy with his tactics, but I understand how he would occasionally get frustrated- his choice of one chica at a time is frustrating and bound to fall apart and leave a guy right at the beginning again. For the life of me, though, I just can't see how his strategy would be fulfilling over the long haul, but to each his own, right?

As for me, I like the GFE as well as the mechanical romp with a hot, disinterested chica. It's all good for me. It's all about getting my nut...

Mill

MonterreyDude
05-19-07, 00:45
Mill, this is so true...

"It's an act. I have been able to penetrate the inner sanctum of some working girls, winning their trust over time. Believe me when I say that they get together and laugh at the poor guys who fall for them and fawn all over them. Calling the guys, "viejos pendejos" and mocking the gifts given to them when, at the moment they received the gifts from the guys, they were most probably all misty-eyed and emotional. These aren't isolated moments among hardened old pros, they are the rule and not the exception."

Seen the same thing... worst part is they don't care if you hear them say that.... they BOAST that they have the upper hand and the customer's money is theirs to keep.
That is why they must know that we as customers know they have a bad act... once we take that away, they are in our hands to do as we wish.






True. It's an act. I have been able to penetrate the inner sanctum of some working girls, winning their trust over time. Believe me when I say that they get together and laugh at the poor guys who fall for them and fawn all over them. Calling the guys, "viejos pendejos" and mocking the gifts given to them when, at the moment they received the gifts from the guys, they were most probably all misty-eyed and emotional. These aren't isolated moments among hardened old pros, they are the rule and not the exception.

The emotions of their clients mean nothing to most of them. They only play the game and give their clients what they want. They will tweak the emotions and pull at the heart strings of guys that they see as emotionally vulnerable so that they can get the most benefit for themselves. Once the well dries up, they ditch the guys like bad habits and work on the others. Most working girls juggle many guys at the same time, often giving them GFE and leading them to think that they are the only one, making it appear that they are making sacrifices to see their man, hinting at a more serious relationship to be had later, etc.

The only way to defeat their strategy is to appeal to their greed and their natural jealous nature as women. Make them compete for your time and make sure that they know that they are in a competition for your money. They will work harder and more earnestly. In the end you'll be getting real GFE from 6 chicas instead of the occasional GFE from one who will eventually discard you in favor of a richer, more generous client.

And with regards to USB, he seems to be happy with his tactics, but I understand how he would occasionally get frustrated- his choice of one chica at a time is frustrating and bound to fall apart and leave a guy right at the beginning again. For the life of me, though, I just can't see how his strategy would be fulfilling over the long haul, but to each his own, right?

As for me, I like the GFE as well as the mechanical romp with a hot, disinterested chica. It's all good for me. It's all about getting my nut...

Mill

Mill Just
05-20-07, 10:15
Wasted-

All I can say is Amen to that, brotha. It's a bitter pill to take, but knowing the game liberates you and allows you to get more bang for the buck- so to speak. An honest working girl is the biggest oxymoron in existence. However, were you wasted just now when you posted your last comment? I think I may be wasted too because I understood everything you wrote.

Uno-

I think that our differences as mongers have more to do with the fact that I live here and have 24 hour a day / 7 day a week access to these chicas. Also, I am single and have a job that allows me a lot of free time when I'm not out of town. Most guys, like yourself blow into town and then leave. Your extended GFE experience is limited to the good times. You never get the unannounced visits to your apt. at 3 am, the weepy phone calls and the excessive neediness that sometimes come with your definition of GFE. Believe me when I say that this gets old fast and has you longing for an anonymous BJ in a privada.

Truth be told, I am up to my eye balls in GFE. Not to brag either, but I get GFE that meets your listed criteria quite often. Recently, since I've learned the game, it is actually more the norm for me to get this attention from the chicas than not - That is if I let it happen. Many new girls that I session with here in Morelia actually invite me out to eat or dance after our time together. I usually refuse unless they are very hot and/or very interesting.

I've gone out socially with working girls numerous times over the years and some I would now consider to be good friends, but I have to take into consideration that I live here among the people. Having girls of ill repute hanging on your arm kind of limits the amount of real, non-pro girls you can meet. It also doesn't look good in the eyes of my neighbors and business associates. You can come to town, screw your heart out semi-anonymously and go home to your family. I have to live here.

I also just don't want to deal with their dramas. For 5 days at a time, a chica can give you only her good face. After 5 months straight, she can't help but let her flaws come out and you begin to see the real chica behind the happy face. Not a pretty picture.

So, I just prefer to get the girls, spend a small amount of time with them and send them on their way. I like to keep things fresh and interesting. All my regular girls know that I see other girls and that motivates them. They'll say, "I know you like seeing _______, but does she do this to you...?" I get my fill of real GFE, so maybe I've become jaded. While its nice and all, sometimes I just prefer the non-drama of having a quickie with a chica who wants nothing more from me than my money.

I guess it just boils down to the fact that I love women and I love sex. I want to have sex with as many hot women as possible. I love variety and I love being pampered by the occasional special girl- two things that are not mutually exclusive if you know how to do things right... ;)

Not to sound too critical, but I think your expectations relative to the chicas in Monterrey and Mexico in general are a bit unrealistic. You want so much from them and expect so much in extras just based on the fact that you're a swell guy. The truth is that these chicas makes good money and what you offer them is not much more than they would get from a less demanding customer for 1/2 the time and 1/3 the effort.

These chicas are not as needy as chicas from poorer nations who will climb all over you for 100 bucks. I know that the stereotype is that Mexicans are poor, but the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of very wealthy people with tons of disposable income here. Chicas make good money for providing service that only involves sex and not a whole role-play fantasy of a GFE. The fact that you even found one girl who will provide you with what you're looking for over such an extended amount of time is amazing.

Now that is not to say that you can't get exactly what you're looking for in terms of the GFE, but you just have to modify your approach. You can't just expect the girls to fawn all over you for hours at a time and parade you around town for a few pesos, no matter how nice you treat them. They will not just hand themselves over to you because you're a nice guy who is thoughtful. Like I said earlier, you have to appeal to them as jealous, greedy women instead of love interests. Most of these girls are spiteful and would rather spnd the night with you for 500 pesos instead of seeing that 500 peso bill in the hands of one of your other chicas. Use that to your advantage just as the clubs often leverage prices over us.

This approach will not look bad on your part. They will respect you and with respect comes the GFE. Frankly, I'd be concerned about the mexican chica who so readily attaches herself to you without a significant feeling out and testing process. I know you are happy with your style USB, but I just wish you would try my strategy and Carlos' for awhile so that you can see just how much more GFE you can get with the way a local does things as opposed to the foreign visitor/tourist. Now, after 7 years in the game, I can get anything I wnt from any number of chicas. I actually have a date with a working chica later on tonight and I know I'll get exactly what I'm looking for because I have my chicas conditioned. She just called about 20 mins ago to confirm our date and told me what she wanted to do to me in very explicit terms. I will have her for the price of a movie, a dinner and whatever I choose to give her at the end of our date. This was not the case when I first started making "dates" with her through an escort service. She was always a nice girl who gave good service, but she would overcharge me and blow off our dates or decide to leave after just 30 mins on an hour date. Over time I wore her down and won her respect to the point that money is almost never discussed between us and we spend sometimes hours on a date. She knows that I see many other girls and that's about 90% of the reason that she works so hard to keep me happy. All of my regular chicas know about their competition, and a couple even work at the same club. I don't mistreat them or disrespect them and we all have a great time together, but in the back of their minds they all know that a bad performance on their part will result in me taking out their competition next time.

That's the way things have to be if you want consistantly good GFE here in Mexico. It could be that things are different in Monterrey than in Morelia, but I think it's all pretty much the same.

I really think that there should be a section in the ISG about the psychology of Mexican working chicas so that we don't fall for their tactics and learn how to get better service from them.


Have Fun,

Mill

El Cabron 007
05-21-07, 05:41
I wondered why USB qouted me twice and why he had all the typos in my quote until I read my own post. What the hell? I was 'WASTED'.

I had to re-read my own post a couple of times ro remind myself of what I was talking about. oh yeah, and then I tought I was right too :-)

Yeah, that's it. It did not bother me and it cleared things up for me. She would tell the guy on the phone when ending the conversation "yo tambien". I wonder what that meant. Just go ahead and tell him you love him too. I won't mind. Then turn over and let me get a last release before I fall asleep.

I too had my shares of 3 and 5 AM knock on my door. Had girls collapse on me and others wanted 200 pesos for a taxi fare. Right, taxi fare with little bags. How many times did I have to send them away and when my wild tiger girl yelled in the hallway for 'stuff'.... I am shocked the hotel lets me come back.

Wasted


Wasted-

However, were you wasted just now when you posted your last comment? I think I may be wasted too because I understood everything you wrote.


Mill

Mill Just
05-21-07, 09:06
Wasted,

As I believe Bill Murray said to John Candy in Stripes, "You're a wild man...I want to party with you!"

I think I may have to take a trip up to Monterrey one day and have a Summit with you...We'll tear down that city.

Carlos,

I've always felt that a good portion of the club chicas would do real GFE, similar to what USB describes. I say about 50% of the chicas would give that great personal service if a guy really learned to push their buttons. The other 50% are just too jaded and too cold to care or they have a legit relationship outside of work and simply don't have the time for extended GFE, but I think at least half of the chicas would respond to the right stimuli. From what I've done and seen here in Morelia, where my home base is, the GFE is a lot more achievable than one might think. You can't just go searching for that one perfect chica who will fulfill your fantasies right off the bat, you have to mold a receptive chica into what you want her to be. Some of my best GFE "novias" were initially just a half step up from a cold, mechanical experience, but they got better over time as I learned the ropes on how to pull game on them. Now we are in a mutually beneficial relationship where everyone gets what they want. This took time, but it was well worth the wait.

What's your take on this?

MonterreyDude
05-21-07, 17:40
Mill
And I quote you: "I've always felt that a good portion of the club chicas would do real GFE, similar to what USB describes. I say about 50% of the chicas would give that great personal service if a guy really learned to push their buttons."

I totally agree... I might dare say that it is less than 50%, but that would be my opinion for Monterrey, not Morelia. But yes, the "pushing buttons" is true. Many customers just don't care, they want a girl just to squeeze their boobs and pinch ass.


"The other 50% are just too jaded and too cold to care or they have a legit relationship outside of work and simply don't have the time for extended GFE"

This is very true... you know the business, the mechanics and the dynamics too... and very observer. Few tend to pay attention to this detail and use it for his own benefit.


"Some of my best GFE "novias" were initially just a half step up from a cold, mechanical experience, but they got better over time as I learned the ropes on how to pull game on them."

OK, Mill, spit it out... how many novias do you have?!?!?!?!


And Mill, yes, you should come to Monterrey...




Wasted,

As I believe Bill Murray said to John Candy in Stripes, "You're a wild man...I want to party with you!"

I think I may have to take a trip up to Monterrey one day and have a Summit with you...We'll tear down that city.

Carlos,

I've always felt that a good portion of the club chicas would do real GFE, similar to what USB describes. I say about 50% of the chicas would give that great personal service if a guy really learned to push their buttons. The other 50% are just too jaded and too cold to care or they have a legit relationship outside of work and simply don't have the time for extended GFE, but I think at least half of the chicas would respond to the right stimuli. From what I've done and seen here in Morelia, where my home base is, the GFE is a lot more achievable than one might think. You can't just go searching for that one perfect chica who will fulfill your fantasies right off the bat, you have to mold a receptive chica into what you want her to be. Some of my best GFE "novias" were initially just a half step up from a cold, mechanical experience, but they got better over time as I learned the ropes on how to pull game on them. Now we are in a mutually beneficial relationship where everyone gets what they want. This took time, but it was well worth the wait.

What's your take on this?

Mill Just
05-21-07, 20:52
OK, Mill, spit it out... how many novias do you have?!?!?!?!

And Mill, yes, you should come to Monterrey...Not to brag, but I will. I have 6 real GFE that are my preferred "novias" who are down for almost anything for little money involved. I have another 5 who are great workers, but are limited in time so we can't see eachother that much and a couple of merely emergency chicas who are hot as hell, but kinda flakey.

I'll even tell you about the "date" I had Sunday with one of my favs. We spent about 6 hours together and had sex twice at the end of the date. It only ended up costing me about 700 pesos, including the movie, meal, ice cream and 300 pesos that I gave her, just for being my special gal. Now, this is pretty amazing considering that just about a year ago she was upselling me on everything and charging me 1000 pesos for a 45 minute session.

This girl would've been cast aside by UNO as a cold fish with a bad attitude, but she turned out to be a great GFE. That's the point that I feel that I'm failing to communicate to UNO. Great GFE chicas aren't born, they're made. Only one in a million chicas will be so warm after first meeting a guy and you'd be just beating your head against the cement trying to find that chica. With the time and energy (and money) that UNO has spent going to Monterrey he should have at least 3 or 4 chicas giving him the service he demands instead of just the one. Maybe he's happy with just the one, but I imagine he'd be happier with a half dozen

I'm not trying to beat up on him, I just want to say that what he wants is right under his nose. He's just going about getting it the wrong way. He needs to take a handful of chicas who are at least receptive to him and cultivate them over time. How can they get to have affection for him when he casts them aside after a first impression? These chicas burn slowly, but the fire gets very hot over time. And I respecfully disagree with the "why" not being important. A guy must understand why these chicas do what they do and act how they act in order to begin to get better service. All working girls are not alike.

Carlos, talk to him. I want UNO to get more incredible sex and affection from these Mexicanas ardientes. That is my dream for the remainder of 2007; ) If not. I'll just get laid in his honor.

And with regards to Monterrey, I think I'll pay a visit to you guys pretty soon. You bring your notes from the Norte and I'll bring my notes from the Sur and we'll have a Mongering Summit.

Have Fun,

Mill

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.

Mill Just
06-20-07, 07:27
But, guys, frankly, because "Angel Girl" is making less and less of an effort lately, I believe she takes my loyalty for granted, just as Carlos and MJ warned me would happen, an eventuality that I also expected to happen. My affections for her have always been 100% legitimate, and I show her in so many ways.

But, she has been full of excuses lately, and seemingly less attentive. Perhaps we have been married too long, and "necesito devorsiarme." For example, she has the time to attend Taboo with mis amigos, until 4am after work, but she doesn't have the time to go with me after work, or to allocate time for a guy that has more or less given her exclusive rights to his business in the club. She is blowing it.

I wish there were some sort of graph that would draw a correlation between the loss of interest from a bar girl and the lack of benefit she gets from knowing that customer. With or without the graphic demonstration there is a definite relation between how good a service a chicas gives and how much she thinks she can benefit from giving that good service (and vice versa).


But, when I start to think about why she would do it, and I consider the money side of the equation, it does not make sense. How does a girl profit from establishing an exclusive situation when there is little or NO money involved in our relationship outside the club.

...but I think you've come up with the answer yourself...

There are so many ways, aside from direct payment, that a girl can get benefit from being with a nice, older gringo gentleman. Moreso than a lack of passion from knowing eachother too long or being "married too long," she is probably slowly realizing that she does not, and probably will not ever, benefit from knowing you as much as she thought she would. When a working chica realizes this, her "loyalty" to you starts to wane and you get blown off (not in the good way :) ) more and more. Then you lose interest in her for not providing the GFE. When all is said and done, you've lost a good provider and you have to start all over again. That's why its important to learn how to play these chicas and learn what motivates them. You must always keep them on their feet and never, ever allow them to think that you are exclusively theirs.

Sad realization, yes, but very liberating for you in the long run. Believe me when I say that the whole "exclusivety" thing will just ruin a good club for you. There were a couple of good clubs here in Morelia that I took off my list just because my "exclusive girlfriends" ruined my chance of ever getting laid there (without a war) again.

Mill

El Cabron 007
06-20-07, 12:52
You should write a book dude. I will be the 1st one to buy it. Call it "The Gringo Effect" or how about "I'm in love with a stripper"?

Well-said MJ, as always.

Wasted.


I wish there were some sort of graph that would draw a correlation between the loss of interest from a bar girl and the lack of benefit she gets from knowing that customer. With or without the graphic demonstration there is a definite relation between how good a service a chicas gives and how much she thinks she can benefit from giving that good service (and vice versa).



...but I think you've come up with the answer yourself...

There are so many ways, aside from direct payment, that a girl can get benefit from being with a nice, older gringo gentleman. Moreso than a lack of passion from knowing eachother too long or being "married too long," she is probably slowly realizing that she does not, and probably will not ever, benefit from knowing you as much as she thought she would. When a working chica realizes this, her "loyalty" to you starts to wane and you get blown off (not in the good way :) ) more and more. Then you lose interest in her for not providing the GFE. When all is said and done, you've lost a good provider and you have to start all over again. That's why its important to learn how to play these chicas and learn what motivates them. You must always keep them on their feet and never, ever allow them to think that you are exclusively theirs.

Sad realization, yes, but very liberating for you in the long run. Believe me when I say that the whole "exclusivety" thing will just ruin a good club for you. There were a couple of good clubs here in Morelia that I took off my list just because my "exclusive girlfriends" ruined my chance of ever getting laid there (without a war) again.

Mill

Mill Just
06-20-07, 18:22
IMHO, these strategy discussions are much more beneficial to the mongering hords than play by play reports about how many times we may have cum, or cum splashed reports about how hot this or that particular girl is.

I think, at least to the experienced monger, just plain, logistics are preferred and these theory sessions are for the relative newbie. But every honest discourse is of value.




But, for some reason, when I articulate that I am pleased with my selections, it is immediately construed that I have fallen hopelessly and madly in love with a hooker, that I have some kind of expectation for a future with her, that I am planning to settle down with her, etc...

To be honest, without knowing you first-hand, I think there is an element of genuine affection for the girl when you find one that you like. I think you do indeed fall for these girls and that's what makes the GFE for you- legit feelings for a chica that makes you think that she has legit feelings for you. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think all of us have fallen for a working girls against our better judgement at one time or another. But I think you're being a bit disingenuous when you say that you only care about the service she provides you when that GFE that you crave is totally dependant on the affection and "feelings" that you have for that chica that seems to be corresponding with those feelings for you. Again, there's nothing wrong with any one of our personal mongering styles or pathologies. Whatever floats your boat is fine...

However, the only thing that you are guilty of is that you perhaps ascribe characteristics to these chicas that they simply don't have. "Loyalty, Affectionate, Sincere feelings, Respectful" are characteristics that working chicas don't have. It's all about the game for them and when they can't see a way to win that game anymore, they just stop playing. Despite any sort of "Pretty Woman" idealism that we may have, nice women don't become hookers and the nice women that may occasionally become working girls, don't stay nice for long.

It's possible that you may find the pearl amongst the swine, but the search will drive you mad and take any joy away from mongering. Instead, have a laugh with the girls- as many as possible. Don't be loyal to them, because they won't be loyal to you. And don't ascribe to them the same noble feelings that you may have in your heart. Then you will be free. You'll still get the GFE...and a lot more of it. You just won't have the hassle of dealing with the negative side of their personalities.

Mill

Mill Just
06-20-07, 21:22
It's simply that the girls of Mexico conduct themselves with little attention paid to providing GFE encounters.

Not true at all, my friend. I have GFE coming out my ears. My statistics are now as follows: 80% GFE and 20% regular service, but it took me time to cultivate these GFE's. You are being a bit unrealistic if you expect to come to town and get these chicas to open up to you completely just because you're a swell guy. Mexicanas don't work that way.

A Mexicana is like a crop; You have to plant the seeds and cultivate the land over a period of time before you can reap the harvest. You can't just plop in a seed and immediately pull out an ear of corn- even if you're the greatest farmer ever. But when you cultivate the land properly, there's no finer tasting harvest...

I just came back a few days ago from a trip to Ixtapa with a club chica. We spent 4 days together on the beach and humped all day long. Great, perfect GFE. But this chica started out as a cold fish that was purely a trophy fuck because she was so hot. In the beginning she was a clock-watcher, one-pop-and-out-the-door hustler. She warmed up over time and now she is the best. 4 Days of humping in the sun=0 pesos. My only expenses were just the usual vacation expenses that I would've spent anyway (i.e. food, hotel, entertainment, travel).

Now, if you were me, you would've tossed her aside for lacking the charm necessary for GFE and you would've lost out on a great provider. Drawing on your comparison to "real" non-pro women. How many women are completely into you from the first moment they meet you? Unless you're Brad Pitt, not many. You need to woo women over time and get them to lower their defenses- working girls are no different.

I don't mean this to sound confrontational, because it's definitely not meant in that spirit. On the contrary, you seem to be a good guy, who for the time and money invested, should be reaping much better service. It's not the chicas that won't loosen up, it's your approach. You need to be more of a bastard like Carlos or Wasted (kidding...sort of ;) )

Mill Just
06-21-07, 06:43
another thing that may influence whether one gets gfe or not is the age and disposition of the monger. a younger guy just has a lot more in common with the chicas and that allows a certain area of compatibilty to develop outside of the regular business relationship.

i'm no teenager by any means, but i would assume that i'm younger than a lot of guys who post here. i still like loud hip-hop music, club-hopping all night and racing the car down empty streets at 5am while getting a bj from a club girl. i like the loud lifestyle that many of these chicas are addicted to. maybe 15 years from now, i won't. i will lose one of the aspects that i share in common with the chicas. then, i'll only have the money to keep them with me; thus, severly limiting the quality of gfe i would be able to get from these 20-something chicas. by the time i get old, i'll just have money, a few good stories to tell them....and, of course, i big, giant weenie :) .

sorry for the lack of focus in this post. i was just noticing my first gray hairs this afternoon and i realized that i'll be too old for these girls in the not-too-distant future.

and i do agree that my living in mexico is a big advantage for me. but, with all the visits to monterrey, you could also be classified as a local. and i would hazard to guess that in an average year, you spend more time in the clubs of monterrey than i do in the clubs in morelia.

but if i overstepped my bounds, sorry. if you're happy with your current situation, then nothing needs to be changed. just keep on having fun...

mill

i don't mean to argue with your conclusions, which i believe are quite valid for you. but, my former post was to illustrate what the average gringo visitor to mexico can anticipate realistically based on my own experiences, and to report what i find even as a relatively frequent visitor to mexico, one that knows at least where to look for the vegetable patch.

and, frankly, i don't even believe that their percentages, those of average occassional visitors, will yield a success rate as high as mine, 20%, because i do have the opportunity to at least revist the venue relatively often in comparison.

i can see where it's possible for you to have better statistics than what i quoted, but for the most part, were i to apply such statistical probabilities to the average reader here, and to suggest that they might have such a rate of success, will only set them up for higher expectations and certain disappointment.

you have a huge advantage living in mexico, where you have the time, the patience, and the significantly reduced cost associated with cultivating and maintaining those gfe encounters.

this is the source of my frustration. when i find good gfe girls, i am aggravated when, after all the effort made, i lose my ability to influence them by being away from the venue. my absence contributes to their overall demise. it takes so much work to find and cultivate the best plants, that i am totally and completely frustrated when i return only to find that the skunks have dug them up, and rep001tered them to the wind.

my point in comparing mexico to other venues is that you do not need to live in those other venues in order to have the gfe encounters because the girls themselves have different attitudes right out of the box. there is no having to mold them into your preferred gfe over time. total abject poverty shapes them for us before we ever get there. those laws of short demand and a huge abundant supply make the harvest so much easier. it's amazing the effect total abject poverty has on the way in which the girls relate to their prospective benefactors from the get-go in these foreign venues, the pi, thailand, indonesia, colombia, and even costa rica and the dr.

i have no doubt that your success rates are valid mj, it's just that most of the gringos coming to mexico, probably the majority of our readers, will have a very hard road when it comes to finding our brand of gfe without considerable time being invested, myself included. we simply do not have the time on the ground, or the money to make it happen with such painstaking precision.

with respect to tossing girls aside, you're absolutely right. i first bar fined my angel girl back in 2005, and after the first time, she really didn't impress me. frankly, i thought at the time that she was relatively good in comparison, but i just sensed a hardness in her demeanor that suggested she was perhaps a little too ripe. it required a two year lapse of time for the stars to reallign, and for me to actually discover her hidden talents.

you're absolutely right, some of the girls don't exhibit evidence on the surface that they might be decent gfe candidates. and, that is where you have your advantage over most of us by living there 24/7. we simply don't have the time to divide the wheat from the chaffe with any kind of reliable methodology. and, as you so accurately pointed out too, the attitudes of the girls change as their profession spoils them by the day.

so, it's so important that you harvest them when they are ripe, not before, not when they are still green and and sour, but at just the appropriate time, before they turn to mush and/or go to seed. with your being on the ground 24/7, you can also cultivate them, keeping an eye on them constantly, perhaps even shaping them into your desired ultimate result.

the window of opportunity is very narrow, and being on the ground 24/7 provides you the opportunity to plant the seed, water, cultivate, prune, keep the vultures away, and harvest them just at the appropriate times.

the rest of us are like raccoons invading the corn patch, taking whatever is revealed as we peal away the husks, worms and all. :-)))))))))))

MonterreyDude
06-21-07, 17:32
Pay attention to what Mill says here:

"It's possible that you may find the pearl amongst the swine, but the search will drive you mad and take any joy away from mongering."

I have said almost the very same here in posts long past.
Mill is quite right.....




I think, at least to the experienced monger, just plain, logistics are preferred and these theory sessions are for the relative newbie. But every honest discourse is of value.





To be honest, without knowing you first-hand, I think there is an element of genuine affection for the girl when you find one that you like. I think you do indeed fall for these girls and that's what makes the GFE for you- legit feelings for a chica that makes you think that she has legit feelings for you. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think all of us have fallen for a working girls against our better judgement at one time or another. But I think you're being a bit disingenuous when you say that you only care about the service she provides you when that GFE that you crave is totally dependant on the affection and "feelings" that you have for that chica that seems to be corresponding with those feelings for you. Again, there's nothing wrong with any one of our personal mongering styles or pathologies. Whatever floats your boat is fine...

However, the only thing that you are guilty of is that you perhaps ascribe characteristics to these chicas that they simply don't have. "Loyalty, Affectionate, Sincere feelings, Respectful" are characteristics that working chicas don't have. It's all about the game for them and when they can't see a way to win that game anymore, they just stop playing. Despite any sort of "Pretty Woman" idealism that we may have, nice women don't become hookers and the nice women that may occasionally become working girls, don't stay nice for long.

It's possible that you may find the pearl amongst the swine, but the search will drive you mad and take any joy away from mongering. Instead, have a laugh with the girls- as many as possible. Don't be loyal to them, because they won't be loyal to you. And don't ascribe to them the same noble feelings that you may have in your heart. Then you will be free. You'll still get the GFE...and a lot more of it. You just won't have the hassle of dealing with the negative side of their personalities.

Mill

Mill Just
06-21-07, 21:33
MJ, many of your posts rang true, while others ring quite hollow. You seem very jaded about your dealings with Mexican bar girls. I know Carlos and his perspective and know his perspective of working girls. YOUR persepctive, though, sounds a little bitter, like you were jilted on several occasions.


No, Porker, I have absolutely no resentment towards the working girls. On the contrary, I have a great deal of respect for them and how they are able to do what they do- I have several whom I consider friends. However, never confuse being bitter with being a realist. These girls do, almost 100% of the time, have certain personality disorders that make them generally undependable and unstable. They are, as any experienced monger will attest to, habitual users; users of people, drugs, etc...

I have never, ever been burnt or jilted or scammed by a working girl (aside from occasionally being stood up - which is somewhat normal with club girls). As an American living in Mexico for the last 7+ years I have been around these girls long enough to know how they think and why they do what they do- and it's not a pretty picture. I've also seen too many wide-eyed, overly romantic mongers get eaten alive by these girls. They often see the smiley, perfumed, manicured American as an easy target; just bat their eyelashes and grab their thighs and the gringos will hand over their wallets to them. That's how they think- regardless of how much you want to romanticize or overly idealize them or their actions. Sorry.

I'm extremely happy living here and mongering my ass off. I get great service almost all the time and have nothing to be bitter about. Actually, I used to sign off on my posts as "The Happiest Man Alive" and that's still the case. But just because one is happy, doesn't mean that he has his eyes closed to the world around him. You may visit for a few days at a time, every so often and can afford to idealize things, but I live here and have to live in the world of reality.

Ask Carlos, as the only actual Mexican here, if I'm off in my assesment of working girls. He is in the best position to say if what I say is based in reality or based out of being jilted.

My advice to all mongers coming to Mexico is the following: Love them all within the confines of their work/service, but trust NONE of them.

See, they are working to get as much as they can from us. When we have nothing to offer them , they disappear just as if our preferred chicas stopped having sex with us, we would disappear from their lives.

When you realize this and come to the girls from a position of strength, the girls respect you more and you'll get much better service from them. No Mexican, pro or not, likes a mandilon.

The Happiest Man Alive,
Mill

MonterreyDude
06-22-07, 08:25
Mill
I have read thru the course of time your posts and I think I posted this some time back, that you ARE a local Morelia boy now and you know how the girls tick
I read no biterness towards them, except a little coldness in the way you write... maybe more "detached" than cold.
But there is one thing I read somewhere from you that I support 100%:
Mill is local to his city (as Iam to Monterrey) so the girls treat us locals 200% differently as opposed to a monger that comes to town for a 3-5 day stretch.
Same thing, WE handle them differently cause WE KNOW how they really are.
3-5 days are no match to see them on a weekly basis.
I think that us knowing them quite well, makes us write differently, but not in a bitter fashion, but always watching out for the Tricks in the Book they would like to lay on us, but we don't let them.






No, Porker, I have absolutely no resentment towards the working girls. On the contrary, I have a great deal of respect for them and how they are able to do what they do- I have several whom I consider friends. However, never confuse being bitter with being a realist. These girls do, almost 100% of the time, have certain personality disorders that make them generally undependable and unstable. They are, as any experienced monger will attest to, habitual users; users of people, drugs, etc...

I have never, ever been burnt or jilted or scammed by a working girl (aside from occasionally being stood up - which is somewhat normal with club girls). As an American living in Mexico for the last 7+ years I have been around these girls long enough to know how they think and why they do what they do- and it's not a pretty picture. I've also seen too many wide-eyed, overly romantic mongers get eaten alive by these girls. They often see the smiley, perfumed, manicured American as an easy target; just bat their eyelashes and grab their thighs and the gringos will hand over their wallets to them. That's how they think- regardless of how much you want to romanticize or overly idealize them or their actions. Sorry.

I'm extremely happy living here and mongering my ass off. I get great service almost all the time and have nothing to be bitter about. Actually, I used to sign off on my posts as "The Happiest Man Alive" and that's still the case. But just because one is happy, doesn't mean that he has his eyes closed to the world around him. You may visit for a few days at a time, every so often and can afford to idealize things, but I live here and have to live in the world of reality.

Ask Carlos, as the only actual Mexican here, if I'm off in my assesment of working girls. He is in the best position to say if what I say is based in reality or based out of being jilted.

My advice to all mongers coming to Mexico is the following: Love them all within the confines of their work/service, but trust NONE of them.

See, they are working to get as much as they can from us. When we have nothing to offer them , they disappear just as if our preferred chicas stopped having sex with us, we would disappear from their lives.

When you realize this and come to the girls from a position of strength, the girls respect you more and you'll get much better service from them. No Mexican, pro or not, likes a mandilon.

The Happiest Man Alive,
Mill

Mill Just
06-22-07, 21:24
I also think that whether girls are mothers has a huge effect on whether they have been softened up by motherhood. They may not be as tight, but generally, they seem a lot more affectionate once they have had a baby and left their immaturity behind.


Actually, I've almost always seen that in my experience the best GFE are from chicas without children. The mothers among the group, rightfully, have a burning desire to put food on the table for their kids. A chica sans children and with no crucial need to get paid or get home early is more likely to actually get to know you and spend a good amount of time with you (The chica who accompanied me to Ixtapa is a working girl without children, thus her time is completely her own). Also, a mother may have a husband/boyfriend in the picture or may still have a desire to get back together with the baby's daddy- thus further limiting her emotional comittment to you. I've gotten invitations to stay the weekend at the houses of these working chicas without kids. I've never received such inviations, obviously, from chicas with kids. A working girl without kids has nothing to lose by spending time with an unknown foreigner. A mother, on the other hand, has everything to lose.

Again, though, this may all come down to the difference in age and lifestyle. Uno, you are an older and obviously more conservative gentleman than I am. I can see how a girl that comes off as loud and brash may turn you off. But these girls with the "Fuck The World" attitude actually turn out to be the best GFE providers in the long run. Of course: YMMV greatly.

Again I must disagree somewhat with your assesments; I think most working chicas 18-30 are similar in the lifestyle they share. The fast-paced club lifestyle is addictive and when not working, they enjoy other high-adrenaline activities.

As for me, I'd much rather go out clubbing with these chicas after a romp in the hay than stay in my apartment, making brownies or some such activity. (of course, all the while, as UNO said, treating them like real and valuable women) And it seems to work for me because I very often get the GFE that I want within 2 "sessions", even when they are new chicas.

But to each his own. Remember, though, that there aren't too many mature, stable, conservative hookers.

Have Fun,

Mill

Mill Just
06-25-07, 05:15
MJ and Carlos: You guys can congratulate each other all you want about how ell you understand the local working girls, but IMO, each of you have flawed M.O.'s: You both think hookers are beneath you, and give them 0 respect. While I will freely admit that most are exactly as you peg them, there certainly are plenty that don't deserve your scorn.

Wow, there was nothing ever said on the ISG more incorrect than what you just said. I absolutely do not think these girls are beneath me. And to be honest, it's really unfair to make a statement like that when you don't even know me.

This board is for mongering advice when travelling abroad. And one valuable piece of advice is to not get too emotionally attached to these girls because the vast majority, as you said yourself, are con artists and professional users. Their jobs require them to be that way. Their future at their club depends on them getting as much $$$$ from us as possible. And regardless of how charming you see yourself, the first thing that any working girl sees when you walk in is $$$$$ and the possibility of more $$$$$$$. Like I said earlier, when you come down every so often for 3 or 5 days at a time, you can afford to fool yourself into thinking that the chicas really like you. We, the locals, know better.

If the dillusion is part of the game and reward for you, then so be it. Great. More power to you and have a great time. However, I've seen enough of our brother mongers get torn up emotionally and financially by chicas who were real women and had "real" feelings for them; they were one of the good ones, one of the ones just doing it because their kids were sick, father was dying, etc...

I have no reason to scorn any chica. Quite on the contrary! Telling the truth about a group of people is not scorning them, its merely telling the truth. If I say that most mechanics overcharge for simple proceedures, I'm not saying that all are guilty; nor would I be saying that they are somehow beneath me for trying to make a few extra bucks. I'd just be giving you a heads up for when you bring your car in for a repair.

My goal here is just to let the newbie and more naive monger know that they absolutely have to be on their toes. Most working girls in the US are done and out the door; the Mexican working girls are more personable and that leads many a newbie into thinking that what they share is legitimate and beyond the bounds of normal hooker-client relations.

Am I saying that EVERY working chica is a heartless scumbag? Of course not. I would even say that none are scumbags- they are just doing what they have to do to put food on the table. It is important when dealing with a culture different from your own to err on the side of caution. Getting too personal with a working girl will ALMOST always have a bad result in the long run. That's not an opinion based on my personal experiences; that's a fact based on reality.

Don't trust a single working girl. When I say that, I'm playing the game of percentages. Most working girls have a deadly combination of being very mercenary and extremely charming. People put their guards down when they go on mini mongering vacations, but putting your guard down over the long haul will almost always turn out bad.

Again, to make things clearer, I make no aspersions as to the humanity of working chicas in Mexico. Being on your toes and slow to trust does not mean that you feel superior; it means that you're being a realist in places where girls are paid money to spend time with and give affection to strangers. For example, Porker, if you came up to me and suddenly wanted to be my best friend, I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you- but that doesn't mean that you aren't a good guy; it just means that a certain air of suspicion is necessary to protect me and my ends because I don't REALLY know you just as you don't REALLY know a chica just because you've had sex with her and she's made you feel all gushy inside.

Being a sucker doesn't make you more respectful of the chicas- it just makes you a sucker.

Mill Just
06-25-07, 05:20
I'm gonna run for cover while I say this .... out of all of you guys, I think the one who understands the girls the best is .... drum roll ..... simple little ... me.

haha .... but seriously, putting way too much thoughts into any of this will give you, me, them, the neighbors .... nothing but a headache. The best attitude I found so far has been to hang out, have fun, enjoy yourself and if at the end of the night you get to pop one or 2 or even 4 (wink) then you move on and do what comes naturally the next day.

Why complicate the hell out of it all? Enjoy yourself and let the chips fall where they may.

Then again, that's just my opinion.

Wasted

Exactly. Why all the complications of "does she really have feelings for me?" Just have fun, don't put yourself into dumb situations and....GET LAID. That's all there is to it. Kinda easy when you spell it out.

Mill

Mill Just
06-25-07, 05:41
Anyway, her mother is part of the reason she works in the bar. The other is her son, and her desire to make a good life for him. She is saving to buy a house, and start a business, something separate from the clubs, and I believe she is getting closer to doing it, supposedly only 2-3 months away from buying a house closer in to El Centro MTY.

She had told me that her dream is to quit the bar. She is not one of these girls that MillJust refers to, a girl that is addicted to the "life." I have found that there are two kinds of girls in that biz, the ones that MillJust refers to, and the ones that have to work in that biz to get anywhere in their lives. It is their ONLY option being females in Mexico, IF they want to have anything.

Man, if I had a peso for every working girl who was going to quit the biz, I'd be able to buy my own chica bar. I haven't met a working girl yet who wasn't quitting the biz within a few months. If these chicas don't get addicted to the lifestyle, they certainly get addicted to the money. When they eventually retire they find that they are back in the real world with no real work skills, little or no education and a social stigma that haunts them; they usually unretire the first time they get their 450 peso salary for their 80 hour work week.

A good test, if you were so inclined, is to take your girl under your wing and give her some money each week so that she could live a decent life without working at the bars. In other words, allow her to retire. In the long run you'd save money because the chica would essentially be "all yours" and you could have her whenever you come to town- No more salidas or chica drinks or taxis to the clubs- you'd have everything at your whim. 600 bucks a month would put her smack dab in the middle class and be plenty to raise a child. (And those 600 dollars would save you money from the usual 1400 dollars that you would spend in a week, club-hopping and bar fining chicas that don't fit your needs.) However, If you would come to town without advance warning, I would hazard a guess that you would still catch her working at the clubs- but I could be wrong.

Anyway, good luck with your Angel Girl. I guess her real motivations are immaterial as long as you're getting the service you like from her. Keep us abreast of the situation even though I know how your story will eventually play out. Whatever the case, have fun while it lasts.

Keep in mind, though, that it's often dangerously faulty logic to take the , "Yes, but my girl is different.." approach to mongering.

Mill

El Cabron 007
06-25-07, 15:54
When I was a newbie to MTY, it killed me to see a new girl join the club. One of my first questions to her would always be "How long are you planning to work this line?". Every single one said '1 year" while she saves for this and saves for that. Every single one had a son to feed and a sick mother.

I still see those girls. Hardened pros and leaders of the pack. I wonder if my days-counting method is different than theirs. A day is a day, right? Does Mexico have a different calendar than what we use?

"S" told me she wants to buy a laptop because she want to get out of the club business. That was over a year ago. They spend more on cell phones than it would cost to buy a a laptop. Devany said she wanted to buy a house. Judith said she owed taxes. She's back in the business after she was out for almost 4 months. I now find out she simply could not work in MTY so she now goes to Laredo. "P" wants me to take her back to the US with me. She is getting her passport and will apply for visa next time I'm in town. "X" wanted to be transported.....

Do I care for them? Yes. But Carlos can rest assured now that I have given up on establishing a non-profit organization to get all these girls out of this line of work. Yes, I still have the email.

Wasted


Man, if I had a peso for every working girl who was going to quit the biz, I'd be able to buy my own chica bar. I haven't met a working girl yet who wasn't quitting the biz within a few months. If these chicas don't get addicted to the lifestyle, they certainly get addicted to the money. When they eventually retire they find that they are back in the real world with no real work skills, little or no education and a social stigma that haunts them; they usually unretire the first time they get their 450 peso salary for their 80 hour work week.
Mill

Mill Just
06-26-07, 07:27
With all due respect, Uno, I think I have you pegged and let me know if I'm 100%.

Most of us see GFE as passionate sex with a chica who really seems passionate about the sex and foreplay, etc...(among other attributes). Uno sees GFE as all of the above characteristics, but that the chica in the GFE actually BE his girlfriend. Am I right? Do I win a prize?

Whatever the case, have fun. Sometimes an illusion is just as sweet as the reality. I just can't for the life of me see how an experience so tense and full of jealousies and uncertainties on your part can be rewarding. What with all the drama, it's like having a real girlfriend. I like to live the dream and not just go from one frustrating reality to another with so many potential ups and downs...but c'est la vie. To each his own and more power to ya.

On a side note, I have a monger friend who stops down in Morelia several times a year and we always share war stories and grab a handful of chicas (long time lurker on this board who I will soon force at gunpoint to become a contributing member). He is constantly going on and on about Southeast Asia, much like some of you guys do.

Personally, SEA holds 0 interest for me. I don't care how easy the girls are or how accomodating they are, I refuse to travel 24hrs by plane, on the other side of the world to hook up with a frying pan-faced, broomstick bodied Asian girl. Give me a succulent latina over a matchstick-looking Asian any day of the week.

Everything you want, by way of chicas can be had in Mexico. You just have to know how to play the game. Mexico really has the most realistic GFE- complete with all the power plays, head trips and drama of having a real girlfriend....But 7 years and counting and I'm still loving it!

If this is a dream, please don't let me ever pinch myself...

Mill

Mill Just
06-26-07, 18:56
I think the service you want is readily available in Mexico. I get it all the time and never suffer from a lack of sex, dinner companions or dates.

To use terms that Carlos will surely understand and if you don't, let me know. Mexican women, especially of the socio-economic level of most working girls, don't want a mandilon (pussy-whipped, for lack of a better term); they want a guy who is a bit of a cabron. A guy will fit into the macho stereotype that many women find attractive here. Even wealthier, more refined women have a general distaste for guys that aren't "real" men.

In my case, the little gifts and thoughtful gestures got me used more than loved. It wasn't until I became more of a cabron that I started hauling in the GFE chicas. Sure, before, as Miller the Mandilon I got decent sessions, but Miller the Cabron got GFE-a-plenty.

Part of being the cabron is to make sure that every chica you're with knows that she is probably not the only one. Mexican working girls do get lazy, but only if you let them or only if they see no real reason to give you good service.

And with regard to Carlos' use of the term "clase," I believe in the Mexican context its more like personal dignity and not acting in a way that disgraces your personal dignity. A chica with no "clase" will be all over a guy, basically like a lap dog. A chica with "clase" will make you earn her affection over a period of time.

And referring to legit girlfriends in Mexico- yes, I've had quite a few. Usually, when I find a "legit" girlfriend I take a break from mongering. But non-pro Mexicanas can be very mercenary too. I was recently dating a very hot non-pro chica (5ft2, 36 c chest and very little body fat), but she was pushing things way too fast, trying to get married and have kids. Just from my own personal experiences, I've found many legit chicas way too eager to latch onto a gringo and get out of their personal situations. YMMV. Working girls, on the other hand, are very blatant with what they want- and that makes them a lot easier to deal with. But I definitely hope to settle down with a Mexicana some day...just let me get the craziness and lust out of my system first. ;)

Mill


So, doesn't "clase" mean the same thing as "class" in English? If not, Carlos and/or Mill, please make the distinction. Actually, MillJust might have a better grasp of how that word might correlate to an English equivalent, him being from the US and having all that US born and bread context to draw upon.

I use that word to describe my "J" girl at Prestige (not to be confused with WastedG's Lady J). When I told my "J" girl she had "clase" I meant it to mean she has "class," and according to my WEBSTER's AMERICAN/SPANISH Dictionario, it has equivalent meaning to the Spanish word "clase." She seemed impressed with my telling her that. At least, she did not act as though I hold just told her she stinks.

But, I have visited Mexico long enough to realize that true definitions of translated words, even words with similar root construction based on the original latin, have significant influence upon them from Mexican sociological influences that make the true meaning in Spanish different than what we would interpret it to be in the US.

"Class," for me, means that a girl has a refined look and manner about her that makes her appear to be of a higher social position. Meaning her choice of clothes, her hair style, her make-up, her demeanor, the way she stands, etc...all make her appear to have a refinement that is usually indicative of the wealthier, higher classes.

With respect to my wanting a "girlfriend," I can agree with your assessment if you want to define it as in the "SEA" sense, where a girl will latch onto you and stick around, be available for your every whim, and be appreciative of the opportunity to spend time with you with little more no regard for overall cost. Then, yes, I agree that a "girlfriend" is what I am looking for...I call it sincere GFE.

My problem is...I realize I am trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear in most cases, looking for sincere GFE among a bunch of hookers in Mexico. I think I may have found it to an extent with Angel Girl, and maybe even to an possibly lesser extent with both Pasarelas girls, although it is too soon to tell with the Pasarelas girls.

I guess you are both telling me that I CAN NOT get that in Mexico. Of course, I already knew that. I can not find in Mexico, what I know first hand I can easily find in Asia, like falling off a log.

I am suprised you guys would admit such things about Mexico. Uhmmm...???

Mill Just
06-26-07, 21:29
She has regularlly told me she wants to find a man that is faithful to her. I guess she doesn't really know what she wants then.

Because, if all women wanted Cabrones, all the legitimate girls out there would be looking for men who screw around on them. And that, IMHO, is not a behavior I have ever witnessed, not from any member of the female sex, regardless of culture and/or nationality.

Therein lies the tragic dichotomy of Mexican women living in a machista society. Every woman wants a loyal, faithful man who will support her and share in the chores, etc...but when they find a man like that, they feel that there must be something wrong with them, they don't seem like men at all; There father's weren't like that, neither their grandfathers nor the husbands and boyfriends of their friends. It is a strange pill to swallow if you come from a different background. All the married men that I know in Mexico cheat regularly on their wives; many keep mistresses, with their love children, on the side. I even know a few non-pro girls who say flat out that they expect their men to cheat on them and when the idea of a good, homebody of a man is brought up they'll also flat-out say, "Ay que aburrido!" All the chicas want a romantic, caring man...but our idea of romantic and caring often appears stifling, boring and less than manly to them.

Of course, this is not saying that all Mexican women are the same, but enough are like this to certainly see a pattern.

And another thing about "clase:" The chicas having clase and not being willing to act in a way that may constitute begging to a chica, is what prevents you from getting that GFE right off the bat from a chica. They may have sex with you, but their affection has to be earned. It is an odd chica indeed, and one deserving of some level of suspicion, who will give of herself so freely after just one salida.

Mill

MonterreyDude
06-27-07, 01:45
That's it Mill:

"And with regard to Carlos' use of the term "clase," I believe in the Mexican context its more like personal dignity and not acting in a way that disgraces your personal dignity. A chica with no "clase" will be all over a guy, basically like a lap dog. A chica with "clase" will make you earn her affection over a period of time."

Right on the nosey...




I think the service you want is readily available in Mexico. I get it all the time and never suffer from a lack of sex, dinner companions or dates.

To use terms that Carlos will surely understand and if you don't, let me know. Mexican women, especially of the socio-economic level of most working girls, don't want a mandilon (pussy-whipped, for lack of a better term); they want a guy who is a bit of a cabron. A guy will fit into the macho stereotype that many women find attractive here. Even wealthier, more refined women have a general distaste for guys that aren't "real" men.

In my case, the little gifts and thoughtful gestures got me used more than loved. It wasn't until I became more of a cabron that I started hauling in the GFE chicas. Sure, before, as Miller the Mandilon I got decent sessions, but Miller the Cabron got GFE-a-plenty.

Part of being the cabron is to make sure that every chica you're with knows that she is probably not the only one. Mexican working girls do get lazy, but only if you let them or only if they see no real reason to give you good service.

And with regard to Carlos' use of the term "clase," I believe in the Mexican context its more like personal dignity and not acting in a way that disgraces your personal dignity. A chica with no "clase" will be all over a guy, basically like a lap dog. A chica with "clase" will make you earn her affection over a period of time.

And referring to legit girlfriends in Mexico- yes, I've had quite a few. Usually, when I find a "legit" girlfriend I take a break from mongering. But non-pro Mexicanas can be very mercenary too. I was recently dating a very hot non-pro chica (5ft2, 36 c chest and very little body fat), but she was pushing things way too fast, trying to get married and have kids. Just from my own personal experiences, I've found many legit chicas way too eager to latch onto a gringo and get out of their personal situations. YMMV. Working girls, on the other hand, are very blatant with what they want- and that makes them a lot easier to deal with. But I definitely hope to settle down with a Mexicana some day...just let me get the craziness and lust out of my system first. ;)

Mill

Mill Just
06-28-07, 07:02
On another more controversial note, my sweetheart texted me today with her everylasting devotion, telling me that she missed me, that she loved me, and that she was enjoying the chocolates her Cabron Bastard had given her. I called her on her cell and talked to her for a while this afternoon, telling her that she was not worth a shit, and that I am fucking everything that walks back here in the States...That should make for pleasant memories when I return.

Don't take my sarcasm too seriously...just having fun :-)



Would it surprise you, though, that her actual boyfriend probably ate most of those chocolates while talking about the strange, older gringo that comes down from time to time and has a little "crush" on her?



Obviously, I realize that if I were to try to be cheap and not pay her, I would be tempting fate, because I also realize that she would evenutally believe I was using her.

I don't want to send such a message because I value her. So, we have agreed that I will "help" her (notice I said "HELP" her and not "PAY" her for services rendered), and with whatever amounts of money I can give her. These symantics are hers, words that make her feel more comfortable with our little arrangement, so she feels that we are not client and provider, but amigos romanticos, which I believe we are.

Most of the time, it's actually a pretty good amount of money, even by "going rate" per session standards, not because I am trying to pay her more than going rate in order to buy her loyalty, but because I really want to help her.



Now, let me get this straight...your actually PAYING the girl to sleep with you? That sounds like mongering! It seems that if you have to pay, its not GFE after all, but more like really, really good mongering sessions...Your Angel Girl actually seems to be a pretty good sales women- making her pitch aimed directly at the weaknesses and desires of the client. It would be interesting to hear from other brother mongers out there who have been with your "Angel Girl" just to see if her approach is much different.

As Carlos said, money is what drives your whole deal; it's what's at the heart of your relationship. Take the money factor out and everything fades away. If you don't pay her, she won't be thinking that you're using her; she'll be out the door in search of someone who will. Like you said, though, "why tempt fate when your happy the way things are?" So, then if money is a driving factor in your relationship (something that is rightfully an issue with you), then how is it much different from any mongering relationship where a guy pays money for the attention and affection of a lovely young lady? Bastard or Nice guy means squat. All she wants is the Sor Juanas, but if she can get some nice gifts from a nice older guy in the process...Sorry, Oh yeah..."My girl is different..."

I'm just trying the sarcasm thing myself. It feels kinda good...:)

Mill

MonterreyDude
06-28-07, 08:15
Mill, one of the things I've told USB to stop doing is bringing cookies for the girls... main thing is to stop him from going around the clubs with a Tuperware.
They do not deserve them.
(Of course the cookies should be for me... Mill, USB's cookies are GRRReat!)
I have told him to change his image and be more the proverbial Cabron customer, the one that gets away with a lot with the girls.
That will need a lot of tweeking and adjusting.
And I still need to bang his head a little, make him see through the girls.. he still lacks the nack for it.
USB is still a sucker for a pretty face.... but there is hope!





Would it surprise you, though, that her actual boyfriend probably ate most of those chocolates while talking about the strange, older gringo that comes down from time to time and has a little "crush" on her?



Now, let me get this straight...your actually PAYING the girl to sleep with you? That sounds like mongering! It seems that if you have to pay, its not GFE after all, but more like really, really good mongering sessions...Your Angel Girl actually seems to be a pretty good sales women- making her pitch aimed directly at the weaknesses and desires of the client. It would be interesting to hear from other brother mongers out there who have been with your "Angel Girl" just to see if her approach is much different.

As Carlos said, money is what drives your whole deal; it's what's at the heart of your relationship. Take the money factor out and everything fades away. If you don't pay her, she won't be thinking that you're using her; she'll be out the door in search of someone who will. Like you said, though, "why tempt fate when your happy the way things are?" So, then if money is a driving factor in your relationship (something that is rightfully an issue with you), then how is it much different from any mongering relationship where a guy pays money for the attention and affection of a lovely young lady? Bastard or Nice guy means squat. All she wants is the Sor Juanas, but if she can get some nice gifts from a nice older guy in the process...Sorry, Oh yeah..."My girl is different..."

I'm just trying the sarcasm thing myself. It feels kinda good...:)

Mill

Mill Just
06-28-07, 22:45
First, welcome to the ISG, P. One. I wish I could convince my mongering buddies to actually post here...

Second, I think there's a misunderstanding when I use the term, "Cabron." Being a cabron doesn't necessarily mean that you behave in a mean, degrading way towards the chicas. It doesn't mean acting aggresively or being rude and hateful. Being a cabron doesn't mean you walk into a club, throwing tables around and rubbing cookies into the faces of the chicas. Being a "cabron" means being a man's man; being a man capable of anything and one whose passions need the passion of a good chica. I have never mistreated or degraded a working chica i my life. A cabron is simply someone who can "conquistar" any number of women- just because he is so damn macho.

In the pro world, as well as the non-pro world, in Mexico, displays of testosterone are very well-received. A man with "huevos" is a very attractive thing for a Mexican chica.

Coming into Mexico is like stepping into a time machine, at least when it comes to social expectations, and being transported to America in the 1920's. How well would a metrosexual man with a tray of brownies be received in rural Indiana, 1919? Well, that's how well received one is in Mexico, 2007.

Now, this is not to say that some chicas may respond to the quiet, respectful, kind-hearted gentleman approach to mongering, but those chicas who respond in the right way may be less than 1%- thus severely reducing the available talent pool.

Being a quiet, respectful, kind-hearted gentleman is a great thing to be...in the real world. Mongers in the pay 4 play world, among the mexican bar chicas, need to have an edge.

Have fun,

Mill

Mill Just
06-29-07, 05:25
No, I don't think there's any rush to portray you as a sad sack or have a competition to give the best advice- at least there isn't on my part.

Basically, to be fair:

YOU come on the ISG griping about how bad Mexico, and Monterrey in particular, is for getting GFE.
- I say that you are wrong and that there's a lot of the service that you crave to be had in Mexico. Then you come back with a million reasons why you don't want to change.

YOU gripe about how your Angel Girl is leaving you hanging.
- We tell you why, or at least give theories as to why, and you suddenly make an about face and say that she is the best and you have no complaints about her.

YOU say that your current tactics aren't yielding results and are open to others.
-We offer some suggestions, just to have them all shot down because suddenly your tactics and strategies are the best and yield the best results for you, all the while taking a sarcastic tone

And now, You come on the ISG and directly complain about the advice given from well-meaning brothers in the "hobby"

So......are you happy with the status quo? Do you want to yield better results? What is it? If everything's just peachy and in your heart you feel that you know best, great, but don't keep giving contradicting statements as to your feelings about Mexican mongering. Nobody has ever put you into a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation because everybody's given you basically the same advice. It's you who directly and indirectly ask for help and then blow off everything that doesn't strike your fancy. So, great, you know best and just leave it at that. What do we get from trying to help you? Nothing. We, who love Mexican chicas, just want you to get more of what's out there and not just get stuck with one chica at a time.

I understand the withdrawal period after coming back from Mexico. I used to go through it as well before I moved here, but things need to be more cut and dry with you because we all want to help a monger in distress, but when you suddenly stop being in distress and then claim that your strategies are the best and refuse to change them it just sorta pulls the rug out from under a fella.

I post in response to you because I see a bit of myself in you- a nice guy with good intentions, craving GFE and not getting as much of it as can be had. My intentions are not to inflate my own ego- I get enough of what I want to never even think about posting here. My intention in responding to your posts is to say that what you want is right at your fingertips and by employing a better strategy, you can get all the GFE you want. What I say is not the result of my rolling out of bad and saying to myself, "I know what I'll post now..." My conclusions come from 7+ years of actually being in country, seeing what works and doesn't work. Carlos is in the same boat...I can't believe that you haven't taken what Carlos says to heart more because, of us all, he is the one in the best position to KNOW what works here if you don't want to believe others. If I come off as egotistical, I don't care. I just read your posts and respond to them when you seem to be struggling for better service...and then I pull my hair out when you do a 180 and say that nothing's the matter.

In an anonymous forum, this is definitely the wrong place to try and stroke your own ego. If your strategies are the best how come you can only get GFE from one girl at a time when many of us get it quite frequently? Your argument is always that what you want is unique to you- it most definitely is not. In our cases, what we want is very similiar, but if your not getting it in abundance after spending so much time and money in Monterrey, then there has to be something wrong...and not with the chicas.

With all due respect, you don't really want to have a two or three or four way conversation...you just want people to confirm that what you do is the best...And when they don't, "well, I'll just agree with everything and keep doing the same because, in reality, I know best." You know what the definition of insanity is, right? -doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? If you wouldn't so often write about your displeasure with the Mexican venue, people wouldn't be so quick to try and help...notice I said the word HELP? Not preach or belittle, but HELP. Especially when you talk about your displeasue in the Mexican venue in the presence of men who are very, very happy with it.

Now, if you were to invest some of the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) and vinegar that you displayed just now to mongering in Mexico, you'd be beating the chicas off with a stick instead of just beating off in your office in Middle-America.

I now bow out gracefully...You know best and are the master...can you pass me your cookie recipe?

Have Fun,

Mill


"What we have here is a failure to communicate...."

Movie: Cool Hand Luke
Year: 1967 (Before most of you were probably born :-))))
Actor: Struther Martin

I love that line..."Whhhhat we hauuuve heauua is a faaaaluaa to comunicte."

Precocious One,

I will simply ask the question, and everyone else can form his own conclusions. Was I, or was I not, very well received by those chicas in Pasarelas? And if your answer be "YES," then I rest my case as to the effectiveness of my strategies and tactics. My amigos do not frequent Pasarelas. I have many options there, and all of them won over by being a "nice" guy versus a Cabron. I am still a Cabron inside, but I am devilishly nice to them, but in a sly way. You see, there are all kinds of Cabron, IMHO, and not just one-way to skin the proverbial cat. I like to think I use some degree of intellect to win those over that are worth a damn, and frankly, I could not care less about the rest of them.

It occurs to me that there is a friendly rivalry of advice givers on here, all competing to out do the other with respect to criticisms of USB's approach to finding his brand of GFE, ones that certainly mean well, mis amigos every one, but amigos that also seemingly enjoy believing that USB is a total failure with respect to the chicas of Monterrey within a P4P context, and more importantly, within the context of finding and obtaining GFE kinds of encounters that satisfy me.

Some enjoy the advice giving and prefer to see USB mired in a funk of ineffectual pussy-whipped confoundation, seemingly for the benefit of the advise giver's own inflated "Don Juanian" egos.

These accusations are not directed at anyone in particular, but it seems that no matter what USB does, Cabron or Nice Guy, consumate baker of cookies or not, nothing will ever finally win their individual respective approvals of USB's unique, tried and true tactics. They prefer instead to maintain their own dilusional superiority, even in the face of USB's over 1000 satisfied customers on five continents, verdad?

So, it is starting to occur to me that if I am damned if I do, and damned if I don't with respect to following the advice of all the advice givers, then I might as well discount most of their prolific recommendations because nothing I do will be correct, even if following their advice to the letter.

My advisors enjoy the course of criticism too much to ever admit that USB might understand what he has been doing all along, and that their advice is merely their own biased "opinion," having little or applicability to USB's specific preferences for USB's unique brand of GFE.

MonterreyDude
06-30-07, 15:52
My friend, am going to contradict you in many aspects...
For starters you are not the same guy that I met a couple of years back.
You used to take out fabulous girls like Gina at the Pasarelas, Vanessa at the Matehuala, girls I didn't even consider cause I saw them above my capacity.
And then some I don't remember just right now that were just stunners.
Then, as both Mill Just and I have mentioned, at some point you did a total "about face" and instead of spreading out, you started spending too much time concentrating on girls that would take you no where.
I remember I used to joke that you had more novias than I did.
Remember?
Some where along the path you lost yourself.

USB says: "I am not the only monger in Monterrey that goes away from Monterrey frustrated. Mostly, the newbies visiting Monterrey leave frustrated because it is a complicated, expensive, and relatively difficult venue for mongering. "

I say: You leave Monterrey frustrated because of yourself. You are coming to Monterrey, and you have told me, with extra baggage, that you are spending too much and you are placing this way on top of your list during the trip.
(I have told you many times that you are staying way too long in Monterrey compared to your first trips.)
This is going to be a hard one, please excuse me my friend: I don't see frustrated newbies leaving Monterrey... I only see you leave frustrated.
Like I said, you are not the guy I met years ago who worked like a fine oiled machine getting the girls all to himself.
And I still insist, I blame your long stays in Monterrey for everything that is happening.







I CAN understand your frustration with me...My emotions and commentary vacilate with respect to my attitudes toward the Mexico experience. But, I don't mean any disrespect to those that have offered the advice, nor am I unappreciative of it, nor do I want them to stop giving the advise and making commentary here on the board. God knows the board is otherwise dead, and without the commentary we may have to do something "intellectual" like read a book or something.

I probably mis-spoke with respect to my comments regarding "ego." I believe that a more accurate assessment is more akin to "blind alegiance" to the Mexico experience rather than anything actually being motivated out of ego. My apologies for that misunderstanding. I will cover this issue in more detail later on in my...uhhh...thesis?

Compared to my amigos, I am every bit as successful as they, and some have had significantly more time on the ground to cultivate those relationships, so in that regard, I feel pretty good about my success rate in Monterrey comparatively.

First, I must offer my sincere appreciation to Carlos, without whose guidance over the years, I would never have been able to achieve the level of satisfaction I do have on the ground in Monterrey. I am truly greatful. He is a great friend.

But, that all having been sincerely said...

I am not the only monger in Monterrey that goes away from Monterrey frustrated. Mostly, the newbies visiting Monterrey leave frustrated because it is a complicated, expensive, and relatively difficult venue for mongering. Without the direct assistance from Carlos, WastedG, myself, and others, a newbie's chances of coming to Monterrey and enjoying one's self to the fullest extent are minimal. Not that we're indispensable, we're not, nor am I trying to pander to our own egos...but to a true newbie to the area, especially a first timer, non-spanish speaking, gringos, the logistics are complicated, as is the venue itself, including the proper strategies to use.

Not everybody leaves Monterrey with a clammering to return. Most, frankly, enjoy the venue, but realize that they must spend a lot of time on the ground to get good performance for a relatively high price...and they are right! If the newbies return, it is usually a result of the comradre we foster with them on the ground...'cause, there are better places to spend your money and your time for the ultimate experience that we all seek.

But, more importantly, even for a veteran of Monterrey, GFE experiences are still NOT widely available. So, even for a veteran that has the venue totally figured out. I have concluded that NO strategy can turn a sows ear into a silk purse. I travel to Monterrey because of logistics and because I like to visit with my amigos. I also have a favorita that I like seeing. Beyond those factors, I know first hand that I would be more satisfied in other venues.

So, if I seem to have an overly committed alegiance to my Angel Girl, it is simply that I prefer spending time with her because her GFE is a sure thing, less work, less expensive...Worldclass. At least, that is her performance with me. I strongly suspect your mileage may vary with respect to her performance, just as they all do based on chemistry, and one man's "junk" is another man's "treasure."

That having been said, the source of my frustration is that while I am just as successful as they in the Monterrey venue, I am simultaneously aware, because of my travels, that what I am experiencing when I'm there is not Worldclass mongering, but expensive and complicated mongering, better than the USA certainly, thankfully, but that ain't saying a whole lot in the Worldclass arena.

My other point is, and this is the point of my former frustration...When I modify my behavior in an effort to respect the advice of my handlers, mostly in an effort to assist them in proving that the Mexico venue really does have something superior to offer in comparion, and also to hope against all odds that maybe I am doing something wrong and there is "more" to be gleened from the Mexico experience in comparison to other Worldclass venues...

No matter what I seemingly do to modify my behaviors to the letter of their advise given, and in a manner that is totally and completely open to trying their recommendations, it is always judged as not quite enough, not quite right, not quite effective, not quite what is required to achieve this far superior service that is supposed to be such an intregal part of Mexico mongering.

That is the source of my seemingly, but unintended, confrontational former post. Even when I employ their methods in exactly the same manner as I personaly witness them implementing their own strategies, strategies that are sometimes directly contradictory to what they say is their preferred methodology, I am told that I am employing the wrong strategies, and that I just don't get "it."

But, these are stretegies they themselves utilize all the time, publicly displayed for all to see, apparently ones they themselves practice on a regular basis and believe will work fine for them. But, somehow, according to them, my implementation of those same methods is judged to be ineffectual, poorly executed, just not quite right, etc...

It is not "Mexico" per se, but USB that has the problem..they say. But, in reality, USB is as successful as they are. The difference is, USB is not satisfied because USB knows what more is available in the Worldclass arena, whereas mis amigos are blissfully ignorant that anything is even wrong with the Mexico venue in comparison.

I have concluded that their blind alegiance to the Mexico venue has them clammering for excuses why USB's methodology fails to yield larger numbers of GFE sessions for him, failing to meet his unrealistic expectations for Mexico, but USB's GFE sessions are just a prolific as theirs. It is more convenient for them, and psychologically comforting to espouse that USB is just not able to implement the necessary strategies that make Mexico, for them, the Worldclass mongering venue they dilusionally believe it is, and I "wish" it was.

Therefore, I have started to conclude that my amigos enjoy believing that no matter what methodology I adopt, it will never have their approval, not because it does or does not work, or because the Mexico venue is what it is, but more because they prefer to believe that USB is just not able to grasp the implementation of their superior methodology, and is mired in his own "unsuccessful" failed strategies...thereby supporting their dilusional alegiance to the Mexico venue as a good mongering destination.

But, the reality is, USB's funk is a direct result of comparing Mexico mongering to mongering on a Worldclass scale. They simply do not have the experience in other venues, and are so loyal to the Mexico experience that they prefer to point fingers at what they perceive as USB's failed strategies rather than admit that the venue itself is contributing to my overall frustrations.

Mill, with respect to GFE from only one girl at a time, that is simply not the case. Currently, I know of at least 4-5 girls that I can get good GFE from in Monterrey. But, that doesn't discount the superior performance of one in particular over the others, and my preference to be with her because of her "performance." I just prefer to spend time and money on one that matters to me instead of on others that don't.

Also, with respect to the numbers of good providers in foreign venues, it is an extremely low percentage of good GFE providers compared to the huge number of available chicas in Monterrey, so I sometimes complain about that. It just makes the search for satisfaction that much more work, and it makes Monterrey significantly more expensive than other venues where the availability of superior performance and providers is prolific in comparison.

Mill Just
07-24-07, 00:21
This brings up an interesting debate that I've been having with my mongering buddies: Strip Club with "benefits" vs straight-up casa de citas.

Whether it be in Monterrey or Morelia, while you may be getting FS with the chica for 1000 pesos, you also have to factor in drinks, privadas, your consumption, transportation costs, etc. However, in the casas de citas, you basically just pay for your time with the chica and other consumption, while encouraged, is not a must.

IMHO, its just about the same when it comes to the price you pay. It's just about personal preferences. Do you like the loud music and social atmosphere of the strip clubs or do you just want to get in and get out in a more relaxed atmosphere? I like 'em both...because when it comes to horny Mexicanas, It's all good....

Mill


Huhhhh??? 2000 pesos would get me at least 3-4 sessions with several hot strippers in MTY. However, if she were really, really, HOT, then I might consider paying 800-1000 pesos each, AND NO MORE.

Of course, at 800-1000 pesos, that would mean also having her on my own turf, and for twice the amount of time. If we permit recommendations to proliferate here with respect to overpaying, it will only mean a price increase for all of us. That, I will not tolerate. Everybody has to make a living, but I just can't sit idoly by and let this go...no matter how hard I try.

But, Misses is a nice facility if you need a discrete location, don't want a hotel environment, and are prepared to pay a comparatively high price for a good looking chica. Up to you...

I feel I've done my civic duty for the week. :-)

Mill Just
07-26-07, 01:00
Hey, why doesn't Jackson just make 20 seperate threads so that every poster has his own personal thread and nobody has to feel the need to confront eachother?

Seriously, without trying to flame, I think that you (Carlos and USB) do have a real contempt in your responses to those who have different perspectives than you. Differing viewpoints are seen as stupid and ignorant or as a direct attack against you and part of conspiracy to belittle the strip clubs in Monterrey.

What Master simply wrote was that he went to the strip clubs and didn't like them. He preffered the MP scene. I don't think there was any intention on his part to cast aspersions on you except to point out that you guys have blinders on and a general intolerance toward differeing viewpoints. I don't think that not liking the strip clubs makes him suspicious just because everybody HAS to like the strip clubs that you like. I have friends in Morelia who swear by the street girls and I think they're a little batty, but I don't think less of them because they have a different outlook on mongering. I don't take it personally when they refuse to go with me to the clubs because they simply don't like them. To each his own.

What works for you is great, what works for him is great. As long as you're both getting what you want, there's no need to argue.

If I decide to head up north and don't immediately fall in love with the strip clubs, am I wrong for not liking what you like? Of course not. It's like what Wasted said about the steak. You may have your favorite restaurant and he may have his, but its a real ignorant thing to question a person's intelligence and honesty just because he doesn't like your favorite restaurant.

Now, I will go back to my little corner of the ISG.

MonterreyDude
07-26-07, 01:11
MJ, did you read my post #1864 ???

To avoid any further confrontations, am not posting anything more on the subject.
Your 2 cents are in too late.




Hey, why doesn't Jackson just make 20 seperate threads so that every poster has his own personal thread and nobody has to feel the need to confront eachother?

Seriously, without trying to flame, I think that you (Carlos and USB) do have a real contempt in your responses to those who have different perspectives than you. Differing viewpoints are seen as stupid and ignorant or as a direct attack against you and part of conspiracy to belittle the strip clubs in Monterrey.

What Master simply wrote was that he went to the strip clubs and didn't like them. He preffered the MP scene. I don't think there was any intention on his part to cast aspersions on you except to point out that you guys have blinders on and a general intolerance toward differeing viewpoints. I don't think that not liking the strip clubs makes him suspicious just because everybody HAS to like the strip clubs that you like. I have friends in Morelia who swear by the street girls and I think they're a little batty, but I don't think less of them because they have a different outlook on mongering. I don't take it personally when they refuse to go with me to the clubs because they simply don't like them. To each his own.

What works for you is great, what works for him is great. As long as you're both getting what you want, there's no need to argue.

If I decide to head up north and don't immediately fall in love with the strip clubs, am I wrong for not liking what you like? Of course not. It's like what Wasted said about the steak. You may have your favorite restaurant and he may have his, but its a real ignorant thing to question a person's intelligence and honesty just because he doesn't like your favorite restaurant.

Now, I will go back to my little corner of the ISG.

Mill Just
07-27-07, 23:51
Why not just check the Reports of Distinction thread right here on the ISG? Proko's information on the MP's seems solid.

Somehow, though, I sense a very negative report coming up from you....Kinda like Fox News reporting on the Democratic National Convention....:)


I am going to be visiting the MPs next week. One problem...El Sol, the source for all the exact locations of the MPs, is only pubished a certain day of the week. I think it may be mid-week, and I don't really want to be delayed in visiting the MPs until mid-week. I would like to work them in with my normal routine visiting the clubs.

I want to check out the 6-7 best ones, but not necessarily the most expensive ones. I would expect to find superior quality of selection in the high end ones like Missess. I am interested wih respect to the moderately priced MPs for quality of selection. God knows...the lower end clubs DO have "some" pretty ugly girls...so, if I can find an MP that has superior selection to what is available in the selection of ugly girls in the clubs, superior selection for the price, then I am totally willing to give them another try.

Oh, what the hell...go ahead and advise me the top 4 high end MPs as well, and their locations. Mastermind's report has me intrigued with respect to Misses. I will check out the best of the high end MPs too while I'm at it.

Which are recommended, and can someone supply their exact locations? I don't want to be in MTY and have to wait for El Sol to hit the newstand to begin visiting them. And, secondly, what is the best times of day, evening, or night to visit them? What times will I find the best quality of selection in abundance?

My intentions are legit. I promise to assess them once again with a totally open mind. But, there are literally 50 massage parlors in MTY, and some are quite honestly, based on my prior research, a waste of time with respect to selection. I need some guidance in narrowing my focus so as to be more efficient, and to give them an honest opportunity to redeam their respective reputations with regard to my currently negative perceptions of them as having potential with respect to selection. I am totally open to being convinced.

And, what is possibly even more intriguing to me with respect to my GFE preferences is the possibility of MP "fining" them. I know in the past, that the girls are permitted to leave the MP if you pay their salida. If I find a diamond, or diamonds, in the rough, this strategy could have significant potential. Especially if I get to eventually know a few of them like I know the club girls. Arrangements can usually be made on the side at a reduced rate. Anyway, I want to test the full range of potential within the MPs, and that will be my focus, at least for the first part of the week next week. But, it will all hinge on quality of selection. Personality and charm??? Well, that will be up to them. I promise a full report upon my return if I am given the guidance here first with respect to logistics.

El Cabron 007
07-28-07, 01:01
MJ, how do you come up with this? :) and so true... don't get me started.

I, on the other hand, expect Bob to come back with GFE @ a MTY MP. How much do you ant to bet? ....

Just kidding ... we love you USB.



Why not just check the Reports of Distinction thread right here on the ISG? Proko's information on the MP's seems solid.

Somehow, though, I sense a very negative report coming up from you....Kinda like Fox News reporting on the Democratic National Convention....:)

MonterreyDude
07-28-07, 01:23
Solid and out of date MJ.
2 places in that report have already closed.
I will direct USB to the MP's... I been coaching him for his next visit, incluidng telling him that his best aid is the El Sol afternoon newspaper.
USB didn't even realized that there are almost 10 MPs in a one block radius from the Infinito.




Why not just check the Reports of Distinction thread right here on the ISG? Proko's information on the MP's seems solid.

Somehow, though, I sense a very negative report coming up from you....Kinda like Fox News reporting on the Democratic National Convention....:)

MonterreyDude
08-14-07, 08:09
Mill, Catholic guilt has almost vanished here in Mexico... might be traces and exceptions on the level you point out, but what you see today is NOTHING compared to what I was witness 20 years ago and back.

Upper mid 90's up everythings changed and a lot.
For example, no one dared question Catholic authority.
No one dared speak against Pro Life (you just can't believe the power Pro Life had here)
No, life is different from 10 years ago.
Believe me, Catholic guilt right now is just a whimper, a sigh.

We are debout Catholics, but debout faithwise, not for following others that take the word of God in their own design...




If I may add, there is plenty of Catholic guilt here in Mexico. However, The Catholic church has had such a strangle-hold on the Mexican culture that their words mean almost nothing to some- much like the way an overly-strict mom's threats lose their impact over the course of 18 years. But make no mistake that Catholic guilt drives a great portion of the Mexican culture- just not the 1% that we may see in the mongering world.

When I first started to come to Mexico, and Morelia in particular, I was so in love with the place, too, and I marvelled at the way everyone seemed to know their place and accept their lives, such as they were. I told this to my Mexican friend, an older guy who really took me under his wing, and he said, "No, there is a big difference between acceptance of who we are and the truth, which is that Mexico is a land of quiet resignation. We were told who to be and saw no way out...so we are who we are."

In any case, though, Mexican mongering sure beats the hell out of anything the States has to offer.

Mill Just
08-23-07, 21:54
...but, of course, they are also "females" first, and sometimes, if one can catch them in an unguarded moment, they stop acting like hos, and project a depth of sincerity...

Ummm...No, no and NO! NO...NO...NO...and once again, NO! What you should say is that they are good at providing the kind of service that their clients like. And, I can say without doubt, that the majority of the chicas actually prefer a cold, quick and mechanical "relationship" with a client because they simply will never see a client as a BFE. Of course, though, there are the more wicked ones who attempt to be all things to all people...(and those are the ones that the more impressionable foreign mongers tends to fall for).

There, my friend UNO, is where your formula veers off course and into the abyss. Ken has 100% the right attitude on mongering, an attitude that will yield years upon decades of satisfying experiences whereas your approach eventually fizzles out because the idea at the base of your approach is flawed. Simply put: there are no honest hookers. There may be honest women working as hookers, but when they are in the role of sexoservidoras, none are to be trusted (unless they have like 1 or 2 weeks on the job and haven't changed yet).

El Cabron 007
08-23-07, 23:42
My Hopes And Dreams Are All Shattered. I am crushed. I am now aimless.

There are no honest hookers?

Obviously, MJ, the Republicans do not share your opinion: http://blog.radioleft.com/blog/_archives/2005/2/6/304533.html

Hey, if a hooker can make it into the white house, why can't she make it into our hearts? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1422545/posts but she is an "Honest Hooker" http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44918 at least when compared to the white house. A hooker will tell you she is screwing you.

I just came up with a joke. What is the difference between our government and a hooker?

Wasted


There, my friend UNO, is where your formula veers off course and into the abyss. Ken has 100% the right attitude on mongering, an attitude that will yield years upon decades of satisfying experiences whereas your approach eventually fizzles out because the idea at the base of your approach is flawed. Simply put: there are no honest hookers. There may be honest women working as hookers, but when they are in the role of sexoservidoras, none are to be trusted (unless they have like 1 or 2 weeks on the job and haven't changed yet).

Member #3453
08-24-07, 01:46
NO....nonononononononnn, no,no,no,no.....

You see, without the GFE, there is just no reason to go on. The GFE must prevail, whether acted out or not, or I am simply NOT INTERESTED. Oh well, we are beating a dead horse. :D


QUOTE=Mill Just]Ummm...No, no and NO! NO...NO...NO...and once again, NO! What you should say is that they are good at providing the kind of service that their clients like. And, I can say without doubt, that the majority of the chicas actually prefer a cold, quick and mechanical "relationship" with a client because they simply will never see a client as a BFE. Of course, though, there are the more wicked ones who attempt to be all things to all people...(and those are the ones that the more impressionable foreign mongers tends to fall for).

There, my friend UNO, is where your formula veers off course and into the abyss. Ken has 100% the right attitude on mongering, an attitude that will yield years upon decades of satisfying experiences whereas your approach eventually fizzles out because the idea at the base of your approach is flawed. Simply put: there are no honest hookers. There may be honest women working as hookers, but when they are in the role of sexoservidoras, none are to be trusted (unless they have like 1 or 2 weeks on the job and haven't changed yet).[/QUOTE]

Mill Just
08-29-07, 20:56
As MJ once suggested, I am seriously considering paying her to get out of the biz. We will see what that entails. But, frankly, when I come to MTY lately, I routinely spend about $1200 on entertainment, entertainment that is nowhere near the satsifaction I get from my G girl. I would gladly give it to her were she to work a regular job and take my supplemental income each month, seeing me for the week I am here.

Uno, let me just say that when I offered that advice it was meant as a way to smarten you up- tough love ,as they say. You would be giving that money to her to retire and she would be, without a doubt, cashing your checks while still in the business. It was a way to point out that these girls are there because they WANT to be there. Well, maybe not "want" in the sense that we want a new car or a nice meal, but they "want" in the sense that they have made their decisions and there is very little turning back.

Think logically here: She says that she's stopped going on salidas, but she also says that the only reason that she's working in the clubs is that she needs money for her sick mom. So, in essencene, do you believe that she's stopped making that same money, the reason she's there in the first place, just because you come to visit her? Sounds to me like the ol' squeez play routine...and even if it isn't:

How many of us have felt the desperate need for money (for sick family members, tremendous debt, etc..)? and how many of us have robbed a convenience store or sold drugs to get that money? Only those predisposed to doing such things will do them. Same thing with the working chicas. Those well-adjusted people in desperate need of money, don't sell themselves (in any culture). Do you know what desperately poor people do here in Mexico to make money? They go to the United States to work. There are many ways that money can be made, but she entered into a lifestyle that fed into her specific pathology.

That pathology is what steers them into the business- not need of money. The money just makes it easier for them to stay put and to justify what they do. In essence, these girls are damaged goods before we ever get to them. And no matter how nice we treat them when we are with them or the attention we shower upon them, we can't be so naive as to think that we would ever be able to "save" them. Impossible. We are, after all, their clients; clients who are feeding into the industry that feeds their specific pathologies, etc...It would be like a drug addict trying to straighten out a drug dealer and put him on the right path while all the while still buying drugs from him.

Plus, as Carlos mentioned, you don't really have an idea of Mexican culture and, especially, Mexican culture at the lower socio-economic level. Give one of them a big check for the month and it will be gone by the end of the first day...and most of it would be wasted on dumb things and loans to family members who never intend to pay them back.

I have known a few people who have made it their goal to make a working girl an "honest" girl and all of those girls invariably returned to the business and left the guy with empty hands and a devasted bank account.

Their world is not so simple. And it is a black hole. It's futile to even try to understand what they go through. Imagine a European, for example, a well-off French man falling for a big, fat, crack-addicted street walker and then trying to save her from herself because he loves her so dearly. Ridiculous, verdad? Impossible, veradad? Well, that's what you sound like.

The best we can ever hope to do is to treat these girls with respect when we are with them and be happy in the knowledge that while we are with them for that limited amount of time, at least they are not with some abusive and violent client who may do them harm.

MonterreyDude
09-08-07, 17:21
Mill Just passed along several questions that are valid.
(See post and questions further down)
But I have some observations.

Monterrey has been visited by many mongers that have consulted this Thread, not to mention other mongers from other forums.
Here and in the other ones, I have been asked to help them out on their visits, so has USB.
I think both USB and me have tried our best to pull them thru.

It is their prerogative, but coming close to none, no one has posted their experiences here in the city.
It is vital to see fresh point of views, but it is also the choice of the monger if he wants to post or not.
More or less I have always prefered to see the interpretation of this experience, to know what he thinks of the city, the clubs, the girls, than to read posts on the specific adventure with a girl.
You know, a human being will act different with me and will act different with Wasted. I have girls that do not like Wasted, girls that adore him (above money and a FS), and so do I. I had a girl at the Prestige that would leave whom so ever customer she is sitting to come over with me.

I have been asked for names, and I do give out names, but only when PMed, never in the open.
Here is why: As usual, there are those that print the forum page and carry it to the club and show it to the girls and tell them "look, the club in the web and here it says that you do such and such things".

You guys know how many times I've heard this? TONS, not many, TONS.

My Harem girls told me 2 weeks ago that one of my members of my Monterrey Yahoo group (like the ISG, but local) aproached her with not one print out, but with 5 pages worth of info and he was going throught the girls mentioned there AND showing her and telling her that they were famous cause all the guys were sharing their info.
My girl asked me "do you know that in the internet their is a webpage that has club info" and comissioned me to search it and come back and tell her about it.

This is one of the reasons why I opt not to do names, hell I should opt not to do anything, but I still do it cause I want to help guys coming down here.

I'll be back... gotta run.
Any thoughts on this?????






Originally Posted by Mill Just
It has been brought to my attention via PM by several of my virtual buddies on the ISG that they want more info brought forth by the most knowledgeable posters in the Monterrey section: Carlos, Uno and Wasted. Now that Uno has his own private detention hall here, maybe you guys can post this info on the regular Monterrey thread.

The info they have mostly requested is:

1) How much are your drinks/chica drinks at the various clubs (Can you even believe that after thousands of posts by you guys, most people have no idea how much certain things cost in the clubs? C'mon guys...).

2) Reviews of the clubs (#of chicas, quality of chicas, etc.)

3) Reviews of the chicas (something that you all refuse to do because of the whole, silly "my girl, your girl" selfish mongering)

4) Safety issues at the clubs (rip-offs, short-changing, etc)

5) A full run down of prices (Salidas, privadas, FS, BJ, HJ, etc)

I just thought I'd pass this on to you guys. It could be a way for Uno and Wasted to overcome their MTY withdrawals and, at the same time, actually contribute some logistical info to the board. Or would you all just like to continue high-fiving eachother for bagging a hooker?

Mill Just
09-25-07, 08:27
Porker...

Maybe I understood wrong from a previous post, but are you an American living and working in Mexico? If so, then, you'd understand better than anyone just how important all this boring price stuff is. So, thanks, man...

As for me: When I was an American tourist bringing dollars to spend in Mexico, the money thing wasn't a big issue at all. Now that I'm living here and making pesos, money is a crucial element...So the money issue is essential when scoping out a new mongering destination and it hasn't been discussed enough in certain areas of the board.

We, the gringos working in Academia in Mexico have to either find other, cheaper sources of actvity (i.e. MPs, SWs, etc) or simply settle for having our 5-star service a lot less often. But I guess that you take the good with the bad because our living here also provides us with a better chance to get a real GF or get a better working arrangement with providers. Plus, year-long 80 degree weather and cheap Mexican food? Who can complain...?




Haven't read much here for awhile, behind on my homework, but some stuff:

Drink prices: YOUR beer will usually cost between $1.75 and 3 bucks, with the average at the mid-range clubs 2 bucks or less. Ladies' drinks range from 5-15 bucks usually. Be careful in the "higher class" places because girls often are brought a double drink whether you or the girl asked for it or not. Most customers are extreme pussies and won't say a word about this because they don't want their high-class prostitute to think they are cheap. These same guys almost NEVER get laid by those girls.

Sex prices: You can get laid in the massage places for 150-300 pesos. The sex ranges from average to bad. But for some here that are RAH RAH MTY, it surely IS a much better value than what you can get in the States. Sex in the truly private dances (not those conducted in a semi-private area like the medium-priced ripoff places specialize in) can be had from 20-30 bucks plus the cost of the privados. The girls you will find in even the lower end strip clubs can be quite attractive. USB has done a great job of talking about the costs of his "salidas" from the strip clubs. If you are willing to spend it, 150 bucks will get you some good GFE in MTY with a pretty hot girl.

Thanks to all of the guys here for keeping up their posts.

Re: Wasted's comment about MTY girls becoming "hardened pros", it all depends on your perspective. I'd bet most wouldn't seem that way to someone used to dropping 300-500 USD a day, but to ME, they make Asian girls look like altruistic SAINTS.

Re: girl friendly hotels, andybody ever stay at the Holiday Inn Express? With their parking lot setup, seems like it's be easy to get a girl to one's room without the front desk knowing anything. Of course, maybe they have parking lot security extorting bribes -- I've never stayed there, so I don't know.

MonterreyDude
09-25-07, 16:33
Mill, as you say, living here as a local (as you are local in Morelia) really gives you the truely GFE some can only dream and others that only get a small sample.

Our friend Porker lives in Saltillo, 40 minutes away from Mty, a desert for his tastes so he used to come to Mty for fun.

Now he hoards money just to go to SEA for fun 3 times a year.
I do agree that SEA might be a paradise, but for those whose travel habits take them over there. SEA is to damn far away to do those trips as routine just for a couple of days of fun to justify that it is cheaper than Monterrey.




Porker...

Maybe I understood wrong from a previous post, but are you an American living and working in Mexico? If so, then, you'd understand better than anyone just how important all this boring price stuff is. So, thanks, man...

As for me: When I was an American tourist bringing dollars to spend in Mexico, the money thing wasn't a big issue at all. Now that I'm living here and making pesos, money is a crucial element...So the money issue is essential when scoping out a new mongering destination and it hasn't been discussed enough in certain areas of the board.

We, the gringos working in Academia in Mexico have to either find other, cheaper sources of actvity (i.e. MPs, SWs, etc) or simply settle for having our 5-star service a lot less often. But I guess that you take the good with the bad because our living here also provides us with a better chance to get a real GF or get a better working arrangement with providers. Plus, year-long 80 degree weather and cheap Mexican food? Who can complain...?

Mill Just
09-25-07, 20:48
I don't want to say anything too controversial here because I don't want to risk Uno not bringing me cookies when he comes to Morelia, but...

Finding a good GFE (and I mean really good GFE) is a bit of a catch-22 situation because you're not going to get it if the chicas see you as a customer, but you'd never get to meet them unless you were a customer...Go figure! The only solution, as Carlos said, is either to set your standards lower and go for a less beautiful chica who knows she HAS to give better service than her stunner amigas OR get ready to work a chica for years in order to get what you want from her.

Whatever the case, though, you will never, ever see me in SEA for mongering. I'd rather have an expensive meal that tastes great than a bland meal that is very cheap and readily available.


Porker, check your email...I am back to MTY 9/29-10/6.

With respect to Asian girls, the only Asian girls these guys know of Porker, is the ones that have wildly, but attractively, deluted blood lines from ancestors that may have come to Mexico 150 years ago to do the labor that the Mexicanos would not do. Uhmmmm, dejavue...

They do not fully appreciate the "altruistic sainthood" that we know exists in Asia, verdad. It is NOT all price gentleman...but, admitedly, the travel time will kill ya.

I'm not complaining about my precious Mexicanas. Frankly, I prefer their looks, and the charm of their culture to all other nationalities...

BUT, and this a big BUT, it only took me SIX FRICKIN' YEARS to find (1) Mexicana that comes even remotely close in her delivery of attitude and attentiveness that is routinely available in Asia from 95% of the girls. But who's counting???

If I factor in the price points, travel time not withstanding, it just starts to make me cry, so I try not to think about it. :D Have a nice day :D Carlos, MJ...

MonterreyDude
09-26-07, 03:05
MJ says: "Whatever the case, though, you will never, ever see me in SEA for mongering. I'd rather have an expensive meal that tastes great than a bland meal that is very cheap and readily available"


BINGO!!!



I don't want to say anything too controversial here because I don't want to risk Uno not bringing me cookies when he comes to Morelia, but...

Finding a good GFE (and I mean really good GFE) is a bit of a catch-22 situation because you're not going to get it if the chicas see you as a customer, but you'd never get to meet them unless you were a customer...Go figure! The only solution, as Carlos said, is either to set your standards lower and go for a less beautiful chica who knows she HAS to give better service than her stunner amigas OR get ready to work a chica for years in order to get what you want from her.

Whatever the case, though, you will never, ever see me in SEA for mongering. I'd rather have an expensive meal that tastes great than a bland meal that is very cheap and readily available.

Mill Just
09-27-07, 05:56
Porker...

I guess it all comes down to taste. I have very rarely seen an Asian girl who has appealed to me physically. Just not my thing. Many Mexican girls are also not my thing...but take the hottest Latin girl and stack her up to the hottest Asian girl and there's absolutely no debate who comes out on top...at least in my opinion. I think as mongers we all have "our thing" and no amount of nay-saying can change our minds. It's not stupidity to not go somewhere when the chicas just don't appeal to them. Would you go to a Chinese restaurant when you don't like Chinese food?

And, therefore, a 24-hour flight across the globe does not hold any interest for me when what I want is just at arms length. Duh!

And with regard to the submissive attitude that many like in SEA...also not my thing. I like to bite a chica that will bite me back. I want a real, live human being and not a blank-headed sperm depository who would probably eat that DOG FOOD if you gave it to them...again, just my personal tastes.

Have Fun


Any of you bashing Asia without ever having gone their are exercising extreme stupidity. And as USB mentions, it's not even really price that's the factor, it's attitudes. And I have seen the looks that some of you are calling "expensive meals", and all I gotta say about that is that DOG FOOD would probably be a very satisfying meal if you had never had anything better! Mexican prostitutes are really, really poor substitutes for their Asian sisters in any category you care to mention.

Mill Just
10-01-07, 20:35
LOL. I'd like to see the poor slob who tries to withold payment after getting "bad" service...I think the whole "paying the girl afterwards" deal is just a way to make the customer feel better, like he's getting the upper hand in the deal.

However, we have to realize that from the very first moment we decide to pay a chica for sex, THEY have the upper hand, no matter what. That's why we have sites like this where guys discuss girls, their scams and the scammy clubs they come from...and that's why its so frustrating to see knowledeable guys go out of their way to NOT share info. We need to look after eachother, brothas, and make sure that the next guy doesn't step into the steaming pile of shit that we narrowly avoided.



There are a couple of things here... you are withelding the money thinking that way you'll get a better service???
You are pretty wrong there.

And if you get a bad service... what?
You are not going to pay?

I just don't get it... what is the difference of paying up front or later???

I mean, you have to pay... if you don't pay, you are pretty getting into deep trouble next time they see you around.

Precocious One
10-01-07, 23:16
LOL. I'd like to see the poor slob who tries to withold payment after getting "bad" service...I think the whole "paying the girl afterwards" deal is just a way to make the customer feel better, like he's getting the upper hand in the deal.

However, we have to realize that from the very first moment we decide to pay a chica for sex, THEY have the upper hand, no matter what. That's why we have sites like this where guys discuss girls, their scams and the scammy clubs they come from...and that's why its so frustrating to see knowledeable guys go out of their way to NOT share info. We need to look after eachother, brothas, and make sure that the next guy doesn't step into the steaming pile of shit that we narrowly avoided.Try heading onto the streets of LA and pay up front or even half down for a service based professional. Regardless if it's a hooker, plumber or contractor, you will eventually come up short sooner rather than later.

I have only once in my 150+ MP visits ever had to stiff a provider. This Korean hounded me to hurry when she performed the HJ. Well, I hurried alright. Right out of the fuc_ing door along with my customary $40 tip. The only "poor slob" is the monger that allows the provider to control the situation. Of all my visits, both US and MX, I have never been told to pay the tip up front. Only the fixed costs of the house fee.

Don't know if it's different here in Central Mexico, but the universal proverbial statement is.

"He who holds the gold makes the rules."

Unbelievable. Letting a hooker have the "upper hand" or control my financial situation? If I wanted that, I would go get married.

Mill Just
10-02-07, 07:37
You can keep thinking that you have the upper hand in the transaction, but that doesn't make it so. LOL. Unbelievable! Keep thinking you're in control, Sparky. And just try withholding payment to a Mexican club girl and you will get real hurt, real fast...just try it. This is not the Mickey Mouse world of US Korean Happy-Ending Land. This is Mexico and you better believe that as nice as they treat you when they get what they want, that's how bad they'll treat you when they're not getting what they want.

By "upper hand" I meant that they have what we want and we are entering into their world. They know where we stay or they have us in their MP, we are the foreigners, we are the ones with most to lose, we are the vulnerable ones- not them. So, that's what I refer to when I say upper hand. Sure, we can decide to pay them or not, but we really have ZERO control no matter how much you'd like to believe that we do.

Now, for example, lets say that you walk into a MTY MP and get shitty service from a chica. Now, you, as the one in CONTROL (lol) decide to not pay her up front and then decided to not pay her at all because she was rushing you. Do you think you're getting past that front door without a tussle? That whole American attitude of the Indignant Customer does not float here in Mexico. You will be a self-righteous indignant customer with a baseball bat across your head and your pockets emptied out. And even if it doesn't turn out so violently, you have essentially made yourself persona non grata in that particular part of the scene.

The point that Carlos was making and that I was making was that it makes no difference when you pay because you will HAVE TO PAY anyway. A good provider will be a good provider and a shitty provider will be a shitty provider. Period. The good chicas know that good service will bring you back as a regular customer, but the bad ones won't change their service if they think you might not pay them...because they know that you HAVE TO pay them.

What do you think Uno's chica would've done if he decided that her performance wasn't worthy of a payment? LOL. Uno wouldn't have fingers anymore to post his reports. And what if you refused payment on an MP chica? The dental work you'd need would be more expensive than paying for the lousy service. What're you gonna do, call the policia and say that the chica was using too much teeth when giving you a BJ?

Precious, you have a lot to learn about Mexico. You're not in America anymore. It's every man for himself here and the police will NOT bail you out. Wild West, buddy...

And, yes, the statement of "He who holds the gold makes the rules" applies here as well, but it is THEY who hold the gold. We are merely visitors on THEIR land. It is their (the Mexican Mongering scene's) game and their rules and we MUST play by those rules unless we want to get kicked out.

By the way, here in Morelia, the MPs don't ask for the money up front, but all the escorts and club girls do (unless you are off the clock). There's no difference in the level of service among the girls who ask for the money up front and the ones who don't. Because, again I must write, that you HAVE TO PAY THEM ANYWAY, NO MATTER WHAT!!!

That's why you guys need to be posting with details so we will know who the trustworthy chicas are and which chicas to avoid.



Try heading onto the streets of LA and pay up front or even half down for a service based professional. Regardless if it's a hooker, plumber or contractor, you will eventually come up short sooner rather than later.

I have only once in my 150+ MP visits ever had to stiff a provider. This Korean hounded me to hurry when she performed the HJ. Well, I hurried alright. Right out of the fuc_ing door along with my customary $40 tip. The only "poor slob" is the monger that allows the provider to control the situation. Of all my visits, both US and MX, I have never been told to pay the tip up front. Only the fixed costs of the house fee.

Don't know if it's different here in Central Mexico, but the universal proverbial statement is.

"He who holds the gold makes the rules."

Unbelievable. Letting a hooker have the "upper hand" or control my financial situation? If I wanted that, I would go get married.

Mill Just
10-02-07, 10:47
Well, I think that you guys live under the illusion that you operate in a bubble; protected and untouchable. A world where you have ultimate control and where the little Mexicans worship and bow at your mighty gringo powers. But its just that- an illusion. I hope that that bubble never gets burst. Never forget that you are not in the USA and the rules are different here than in the States. Pushing the limits with regards to the chicas' and the clubs' livelihoods is truly a dangerous endeavor.

Of course, after becoming a known entity and a recognized customer, you get cut some slack and are allowed treatment that a new guy wouldn't. The chicas would also be less likely to pull a fast one on a regular customer and, anyway, by the time you become a regular at a club, you pretty much know who is and who isn't a good provider.

Here in Morelia, at least, I have never been scammed or ripped off when I paid up front. Most chicas who demand money upfront are only trying to protect themselves from being ripped off, something that any decent guy would realize- a suspicious chica doesn't make for a good lay. A chica will provide the service that she feels like providing and, as Uno can attest to and has commented on many times, no amount of psychology or pressure can turn a bad or mediocre provider into a GFE Queen. A good provider will be a good provider and a bad one will be a bad one, regardless. So, again this technique of paying afterwards really only serves to soothe the mind of the monger and has little, if any, positive affect on a chica. However, the "holding the money back routine" may work if the chica is relatively new to the business and/or you are very well known at the club or with the agency. But I think that a real, experienced monger wouldn't need to resort to that type of coercion in order to get a chica mas caliente, verdad? Kinda goes against the concept of the "real" GFE don't ya think? ;)

And, anyway, all this is a moot point seeing that you WILL have to pay anyway and they all know this.

Have Fun.

P.S. Don't take this personal, Precious, this is just how I write. In real life, as Uno and Carlos will soon find out, I am a lot more fuzzy and cuddly- like Hunter S. Thompson sniffing an Ether-soaked dish rag. Maybe one day we'll meet and share a laugh or two...


The fees are NOT paid up front as a general practice in most parts of the world, with the exception of the fees paid to the house for their cut only.

Frankly, they will all gladly take your payment up front, but here in Mexico in the clubs, is a rarity for me. I am almost never made to pay the house the full fee if I tell them I will pay the girl afterward. But, remember, they will always take your money. I always explain to the girl in advance that I have the money to pay the house, and that their cut is in my hotel room, period. If they want to earn the money, they can take the plunge.

I do not pay the house the full fee at El Infinito, El Cielo, or Pasarelas. But, the standard practice seems to be to pay the full fee at Matehuala, and some other clubs. So, there IS NO standard anything. The rules are left up to the managers. If the girl wants the money, you simply inform her that she will be paid upon completion,and most of the managers will go along with that if you don't throw your money at them...Paying for salidas is something I know a hell of a lot about. The only way I would ever choose to pay a girl upfront, is to pay her through the management so she realizes that she does not have the money in the bag quite yet. It is a psychological advantage for you as a monger to control the money.

Frankly, I prefer to hold the psychological cards rather than part with my money with no degree of "influence" being present whatsoever. Oh, the stories I could tell about the wisdom of holding the money in your possession until you are at least partially satisfied with the outcome.

It has nothing to do with whether you are actually intending to pay. It has everything to do with playing the psychological game, negotiating your position when she is wanting to get lazy, or trying to run a game on you by cutting time or using some BS excuse to hold back this or that. With the lazy ones, while they are acting up, you simply tell them that you are paying for their performance, and that they have yet to be paid. Most of them will jump on the band wagon rather than have you hit the frickin' roof over poor performance issues, or worse yet, take your complaints to their bosses where they will have to answer to their behavior.

Once she is paid, you have nothing to bargain with when she won't deliver the promised goods. It simply gives you an opportunity to pursuade her during the course of her stay with you, the merits in delivering to your expectations. The threat of non-payment is always a psychological motivator. Plus, you have the threat of making a scene with their boss over your complaint, the nasty propsect of they having to address an escalated confrontation with a client in front of their manager.

I don't say that you should attempt to stiff them, but that you should keep yourself in a bargaining position at all times until you are relatively satisfied.
I have had a number of them that are a total disaster in Monterrey...I just got done with one from the night shift at El Infinito. I will relate the detail of that story soon, and you will not believe it. And, you will not believe how I handled it, and how much it cost me to handle it with and eye to the future. She was paid in full...and for NO SEX. The situation dictates the tactic.

And, with respect to getting your money back. Don't forget that I did that exact same thing at the Old Givenchy when the girl delivered poor service. I saw the manager of the bar, and while they would not part with their salida fee, they DID impose on the girl to make a refund, which she did.

So, while it is not common, getting them to hold the girl to some reasonable standard of performance is possible because I personally did it. I don't say it's common, but it is doable. Now, imagine if you showed up at the club, not having paid the girl, and they know you are a regular, and a good customer, one of credibility with respect to your long standing record of being a buen cleinte, and you complained about her service, and could back it up, such as I did at Givenchy. You would be in a much better position to bargain with the manager, and appeal to his business sense, hopefully so he will intervene on your behalf with the girl, just as the manager did for me at Givenchy, pursuading her that she was wrong, and that she should make it, if not completely right, then at least partially right.

They do have some leverage with the girls that are under their employ. And, provided you can back up your claims, and provided you have credibility in the bars, your reputation can be of immense value in getting the bars to intervene on your behalf with some influence over the girls.

But, again, it isn't with any intention of holding back their payment in the end unless service is just absolutely horrible or mis-represented. It is more a matter of psychology, which I have been preaching here from day one, and a subject that seems to be given little or no legitimate consideration on the boards.

Psychology is the key to everything, and that includes P4P in spades.

Precocious One
10-02-07, 15:15
Well, I think that you guys live under the illusion that you operate in a bubble; protected and untouchable. A world where you have ultimate control and where the little Mexicans worship and bow at your mighty gringo powers. But its just that- an illusion. I hope that that bubble never gets burst. Never forget that you are not in the USA and the rules are different here than in the States. Pushing the limits with regards to the chicas' and the clubs' livelihoods is truly a dangerous endeavor.

Of course, after becoming a known entity and a recognized customer, you get cut some slack and are allowed treatment that a new guy wouldn't. The chicas would also be less likely to pull a fast one on a regular customer and, anyway, by the time you become a regular at a club, you pretty much know who is and who isn't a good provider.

Here in Morelia, at least, I have never been scammed or ripped off when I paid up front. Most chicas who demand money upfront are only trying to protect themselves from being ripped off, something that any decent guy would realize- a suspicious chica doesn't make for a good lay. A chica will provide the service that she feels like providing and, as Uno can attest to and has commented on many times, no amount of psychology or pressure can turn a bad or mediocre provider into a GFE Queen. A good provider will be a good provider and a bad one will be a bad one, regardless. So, again this technique of paying afterwards really only serves to soothe the mind of the monger and has little, if any, positive affect on a chica. However, the "holding the money back routine" may work if the chica is relatively new to the business and/or you are very well known at the club or with the agency. But I think that a real, experienced monger wouldn't need to resort to that type of coercion in order to get a chica mas caliente, verdad? Kinda goes against the concept of the "real" GFE don't ya think? ;)

And, anyway, all this is a moot point seeing that you WILL have to pay anyway and they all know this.

Have Fun.

P.S. Don't take this personal, Precious, this is just how I write. In real life, as Uno and Carlos will soon find out, I am a lot more fuzzy and cuddly- like Hunter S. Thompson sniffing an Ether-soaked dish rag. Maybe one day we'll meet and share a laugh or two...MJ,

I am too old and too far ahead to take things personally at this point in my life. And as the disconnect between the have and have not's increasingly widens in the next few years, either through hyperinflation or deflation, it is best to simply ignore those type's unless seriously pushed.

In the year and a half I have lived in MX, I have only had a problem ONCE in that time. Once. And we were both drunk and the problem was quickly diffused. This also includes probably more than 60 other days I have spent vacationing here. Now maybe it is the way I carry myself or how I look, but I get the feeling that most mexican nationals pretty much physically see me as a straight up dude. I have only had to stand up for myself a few times in MX and it has never been a problem. I feel more comfortable here than I do in the states.

I do not know your situation both financially and physically, but I am old enough to know that I am still young enough to get attractive non-pro's. So no, at this juncture in my life, hooker or not, I have no need to allow a woman to get the "upper-hand." Not gonna happen. If I had a US wife and children yes, I would be fuc_ed financially and she would most certainly have the upper-hand.

As for my monicker, it is not precious which I certainly am not but precocious, which I certainly am.

MonterreyDude
10-02-07, 17:42
There a couple of things USB writes without giving a couple of seconds to thought.

USB is known at the clubs as a returning American customer, one way or another, the House and the girls know that he is trustworthy.

Up to now, USB is so at home at places like the Prestige, Obsession, TVO, Pasarelas... all the moderate priced clubs, BUT, here you have to check your soul at the door and the House owns it till you pay your bill and exit the club.

At this places you don't pay any service up front, they go to the tab. Never mind if you don't pay upfront, you HAVE to pay. There is no option.

I guess none of my American friends have seen what happens to a customer if he refuses to pay or is in disagreement with the tab. After getting one hell of beating, they hand you over to the police.
Worst part is you still have to pay the House.

What Mill Just and I are trying to get through is that what ever your thoughts, even if you think you are "withelding" payment, you already PAYED up front the moment you decided to take a girl out (or doing her in the club).

Let me see: has any one reading this post "witheld" payment from a girl even if he recieved a shitty deal, "lay flat on bed" girl, "cadaver" type, no emotion, no GFE, no nothing?

You see? you are paying up front on all conditions....

I know USB got a refund once, but I keep thinking an angel was on his side that day... usually they just play dumb and turn their back on you and if you insist, they surround you with security and kick you out.

And I just don't want to contradict USB, but my friend sees himself as a good customer, a reputable one...
Oh damn... USB, you are having real misguided thoughts here.
I am making them public, just for the sake of other mongers: a reputable customer at the clubs is one that spends tons of money with out second thoughts, not one that takes a girl out once or twice a week every each other month.
It is one that leaves a mark at the club, one that will be remembered by managers, waiters and girls.
One that spends 5000 pesos and up and leaves 1000 pesos tip to spread around.
(5000 pesos is a conservative figure... I've seen guys pay 350,000 peso bill without blinking)
Even me as a local, as a guy that spends 1000 pesos per visit, am a regular customer, but Iam not a good customer for the clubs.

Please take the latter in consideration, do not think that by paying a 350 peso salida, that makes you a good customer.
Remember that the 1000 pesos (or whatever you pay the girl) is not for the House...
The House loses on those kind of deals.










The fees are NOT paid up front as a general practice in most parts of the world, with the exception of the fees paid to the house for their cut only.

Frankly, they will all gladly take your payment up front, but here in Mexico in the clubs, is a rarity for me. I am almost never made to pay the house the full fee if I tell them I will pay the girl afterward. But, remember, they will always take your money. I always explain to the girl in advance that I have the money to pay the house, and that their cut is in my hotel room, period. If they want to earn the money, they can take the plunge.

I do not pay the house the full fee at El Infinito, El Cielo, or Pasarelas. But, the standard practice seems to be to pay the full fee at Matehuala, and some other clubs. So, there IS NO standard anything. The rules are left up to the managers. If the girl wants the money, you simply inform her that she will be paid upon completion,and most of the managers will go along with that if you don't throw your money at them...Paying for salidas is something I know a hell of a lot about. The only way I would ever choose to pay a girl upfront, is to pay her through the management so she realizes that she does not have the money in the bag quite yet. It is a psychological advantage for you as a monger to control the money.

Frankly, I prefer to hold the psychological cards rather than part with my money with no degree of "influence" being present whatsoever. Oh, the stories I could tell about the wisdom of holding the money in your possession until you are at least partially satisfied with the outcome.

It has nothing to do with whether you are actually intending to pay. It has everything to do with playing the psychological game, negotiating your position when she is wanting to get lazy, or trying to run a game on you by cutting time or using some BS excuse to hold back this or that. With the lazy ones, while they are acting up, you simply tell them that you are paying for their performance, and that they have yet to be paid. Most of them will jump on the band wagon rather than have you hit the frickin' roof over poor performance issues, or worse yet, take your complaints to their bosses where they will have to answer to their behavior.

Once she is paid, you have nothing to bargain with when she won't deliver the promised goods. It simply gives you an opportunity to pursuade her during the course of her stay with you, the merits in delivering to your expectations. The threat of non-payment is always a psychological motivator. Plus, you have the threat of making a scene with their boss over your complaint, the nasty propsect of they having to address an escalated confrontation with a client in front of their manager.

I don't say that you should attempt to stiff them, but that you should keep yourself in a bargaining position at all times until you are relatively satisfied.
I have had a number of them that are a total disaster in Monterrey...I just got done with one from the night shift at El Infinito. I will relate the detail of that story soon, and you will not believe it. And, you will not believe how I handled it, and how much it cost me to handle it with and eye to the future. She was paid in full...and for NO SEX. The situation dictates the tactic.

And, with respect to getting your money back. Don't forget that I did that exact same thing at the Old Givenchy when the girl delivered poor service. I saw the manager of the bar, and while they would not part with their salida fee, they DID impose on the girl to make a refund, which she did.

So, while it is not common, getting them to hold the girl to some reasonable standard of performance is possible because I personally did it. I don't say it's common, but it is doable. Now, imagine if you showed up at the club, not having paid the girl, and they know you are a regular, and a good customer, one of credibility with respect to your long standing record of being a buen cleinte, and you complained about her service, and could back it up, such as I did at Givenchy. You would be in a much better position to bargain with the manager, and appeal to his business sense, hopefully so he will intervene on your behalf with the girl, just as the manager did for me at Givenchy, pursuading her that she was wrong, and that she should make it, if not completely right, then at least partially right.

They do have some leverage with the girls that are under their employ. And, provided you can back up your claims, and provided you have credibility in the bars, your reputation can be of immense value in getting the bars to intervene on your behalf with some influence over the girls.

But, again, it isn't with any intention of holding back their payment in the end unless service is just absolutely horrible or mis-represented. It is more a matter of psychology, which I have been preaching here from day one, and a subject that seems to be given little or no legitimate consideration on the boards.

Psychology is the key to everything, and that includes P4P in spades.

Mill Just
10-05-07, 07:57
Good point, we are NOT considered good and valuable customers when compared to the others who throw around money. There are many, many Mexican business men who spend thousands of pesos in a given club every week.

In comparison, we who order a couple of drinks, get a couple of privados and take a chica for a salida, are not that high up on the food chain. I would compare us to the guy who goes to the OXXO a couple of times a week to buy a Coke and a bag of chips. Sure, they appreciate the patronage, but they are not staying up late thinking about how we may have been offended by something they did.

And Uno, these are not very good business men- none of them from the waiters right through to the chicas. They are aggressive business men, but not smart ones. They can afford to be aggressive because they always operate in a seller's market and can afford to be careless. There is never a short supply of horny men who can be duped into paying shitloads of money. But put these same club owners and chicas into any other business situation and they would get their heads handed to them.

Sometimes it does get frustrating...

The only possible way to get around being ejected for not drinking is either to find the head waiter or floor manager and tip him generously beforehand or get better at hitting and running.


I had a chat with USB in the afternoon, told him his point of view is wrong.
There are guys at moderate priced clubs whos job is to catch people not drinking. Such people are told whether he drinks or leaves.
After all, imagine if everyone can go into a club an just stare at naked ladies.

You have to ran a tab at the 5 star clubs. Same thing, if you stop drinking, they bring you the bill so you can leave.
(USB hasn't suffered this at the high end clubs cause at least one of us is drinking, anteing up the tab).

The club's business is making money, not entertaing pedestrains for free.

Iam mostly surprised that USB feels this way, when he is a veteran of Monterrey. And yet with all his years of coming down here he has not payed attention of the people ejected from the clubs cause they are not drinking, just gawking at the girls.

That is why I always carry a drink in my hand, cause I know the consequences.

Again guys reading these posts: Do not be overconfident... you have to order drinks at clubs (be it alcohol, beer or soft drink), be seen drinking and not nursing an empty glass.

Like I said before many times, we are not good customers, we are just regulars with some knowladge of the girls.

Mill Just
10-05-07, 20:32
I think Uno is guilty of what other people on this board are guilty of- trying to apply logic, American business logistics and the American concept of "the customer is always right" to the Mexican venue. These concepts do not apply here.

True, the club people often have no idea of how to run a "real" business, but this is not a "real" business. And anybody with real business accumen would be working for one of the many legit businesses.

The Mexican business sense on the lower level is notoriously short-sighted and, just plain dumb at times. And you don't get much lower than the strip clubs. The truth is that they just don't care if we get pissed off at them. They don't think of the future, they only think in the present and, for them, 200 pesos in their pocket is much more valuable than the promise of 20,000 over the course of a year.

Uno, for what its worth...I'll try to not get you kicked out of any club in Morelia :)

MonterreyDude
10-06-07, 03:13
Mill. I met USB and Porker in the afternoon at Prestige, a 5 star club.

I asked the manager, a lady manager, what happens if for example, USB is a perfect stranger and he comes in and only orders one drink and nothing else.

She with all correctness of a high end club, told me what I posted down below: "our business is not catering people that come in to watch the girls... our business is drinks. If the gentleman does not pay for one, he is shown to the door"

By that time USB and Porker had left (I had to drive straight home) but I would have loved USB to do some arguing with a wall about the hypotetical analysis of a potential customer with money in his pocket, opposed to one with a drink in his hand.






I think Uno is guilty of what other people on this board are guilty of- trying to apply logic, American business logistics and the American concept of "the customer is always right" to the Mexican venue. These concepts do not apply here.

True, the club people often have no idea of how to run a "real" business, but this is not a "real" business. And anybody with real business accumen would be working for one of the many legit businesses.

The Mexican business sense on the lower level is notoriously short-sighted and, just plain dumb at times. And you don't get much lower than the strip clubs. The truth is that they just don't care if we get pissed off at them. They don't think of the future, they only think in the present and, for them, 200 pesos in their pocket is much more valuable than the promise of 20,000 over the course of a year.

Uno, for what its worth...I'll try to not get you kicked out of any club in Morelia :)

Whome69
10-06-07, 13:08
The Mexican business sense on the lower level is notoriously short-sighted and, just plain dumb at times. And you don't get much lower than the strip clubs. The truth is that they just don't care if we get pissed off at them. They don't think of the future, they only think in the present and, for them, 200 pesos in their pocket is much more valuable than the promise of 20,000 over the course of a year.

:)This is very true. I have seen it time and time again in business in Mexico. The "typical" Mexican would sacrafice an existing relationship generating an income of $10G's a month for a quick $30G's today. However, there are exceptions to this rule.

The solution that I have found that works is to build a good solid relationship with the one that "you depend on". Get to know their secrets. Like where and how they cheat on their Taxes. Their Slush fund! Who their G/F is and where she lives. Ect, Ect, Ect. You don't have to be so crass to say anything about what you know, except to maybe to say, "This is a no win situation".

I try to spend as little time in these "Show Bars" as possible. I am not a big drinker and I am there for the women. However, I am also guilty. I have paid Tabs that went well over a thousand bucks even after getting the Bill straightened out for Server Fraud. It pisses me off that these Bars really take advantage of these Girls and they really don't appreciate their Customer. If it wasn't for the Girls, who would pay their exorbitant prices and tolerate thier "Billing errors" and 10% surcharges for Credit Card payment? When I will fully retire and my youngest kid is out of the house, perhaps I will start a Union for these girls? : Maybe even contacting the Credit Card companies and back-charging them for their surcharges accross the Board for ever Customer over the past 2-3 years which is a violation of their CC agreements? These Clubs NEED Credit Card support.

MonterreyDude
10-16-07, 21:37
i still insist it is easier mj.
like right now, freedom of speech is more to the point here in mexico than in the us.
the catholic religous right now has limited power as compared to the christian religous right in the us.... and wow, did our religous right made us suffer!!!
interest rates for housing and cars and credits are, might be high, but right now there no traps as the housing bubble that just recently burst in the us (thing that happened in 1994 for us).
it's easy for you as a foreign guy to work in mexico, than me going to us and find a job.
the list is long mj...

might be that i chose the wrong word... not easier... less complicated?
is that better????



carlos, i agree with everything you just said except for the part where you say that "living in mexico is easier than in the u.s." you are waaaaay off on that one. american life is more expensive, but it is a lot more convenient.

p.s. you forgot to mention that getting laid is also waaaaay cheaper in mexico. :)

Mill Just
10-17-07, 05:38
i guess i'm thinking in a more practical way when you say "easier."

easier as in having clean drinking water, steady and consistant garbage pick up, cooking gas at your ready disposal and a predicatable legal/ law enforcement system...


i still insist it is easier mj.
like right now, freedom of speech is more to the point here in mexico than in the us.
the catholic religous right now has limited power as compared to the christian religous right in the us.... and wow, did our religous right made us suffer!!!
interest rates for housing and cars and credits are, might be high, but right now there no traps as the housing bubble that just recently burst in the us (thing that happened in 1994 for us).
it's easy for you as a foreign guy to work in mexico, than me going to us and find a job.
the list is long mj...

might be that i chose the wrong word... not easier... less complicated?
is that better????

Mill Just
10-17-07, 07:00
Without veering too off-topic, I just mean that the daily conveniences are what makes life easier in the US, stuff that we take for granted as Americans that are special privileges for Mexicans. Just in the area of basic government services, Mexico, as a whole, is nowhere near as efficient as the US.

But its all relative because life in the US is easier for me as an American just as life in Mexico is easier for you as a Mexican. We learn how to live off what we have.

My standard of living in the U.S. had never changed, despite any sort of stock market or real estate problems. Everything is steady in the States whereas I just sense a lot more volatility in the Mexican way of life. There is a certain confidence in the American way of life (cockiness?) where we feel, that despite any sort of problems, we will always be just as rich and just as privileged as always and there's always the concept, however abstract, that the government is our servant and at our command whereas in Mexico, it is not like that at all.

But, again, we will see things differently because we look at the world from different reference points.




you do have that at Morelia, don't you...?
I mean, look at life's benefits... could you relocate so easily and so cheaply to any other city in the US?????

Member #3453
10-17-07, 12:29
I just mean that the daily conveniences are what makes life easier in the US...basic government services, easier for me as an American just as life in Mexico is easier for you as a Mexican...a lot more volatility in the Mexican way of life....there's always the concept, however abstract, that the government is our servant and at our command whereas in Mexico, it is not like that at all. But, again, we will see things differently because we look at the world from different reference points.

Very well articulated, and I also agree 100%. But, as you said, much of it has to do with cultural origins. Our origins may make our home countries seem easier for us respectively, when in reality, each has it's advantages and disadvantages, advantages and disadvantages that from our colored perspective may be interpreted quite differently between us based on our being of origins that originate in different societies and cultures.

Mill Just
10-19-07, 08:49
carlos, you are a smart guy and a fine patriot but i know you aren't comparing mexican samitary standards to us sanitary standards...the reason most americans are so succeptible to stomach infections when compared to our brothers down in mexico is that we have never been exposed to the tribes of bacteria that are common place in mexico. there was a reason i had continuous stomach infections for the first 4 months i lived in mexico...and with regards to the "standard headline" comment about e-coli concerns: can you imagine a headline in mexico that reads "taco stands in downtown area contain high counts of dangerous bacteria and dried animal [CodeWord113] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord113)?" the mexican republic as a whole would put down their newspapers and let out a collective, "no shit, sherlock...duh!" that would not be a headline at all here in mexico because its common knowledge that sanitary conditions are horrendous.

and when it comes to dumb politicians like our idiot president bush, just take a look at vicente fox's recent press tour in the us. i thought we cornered the market on dumb politicians, but there was president fox trying to say that mexico is doing such a great job at stopping the drugs from coming into the us that those drugs are staying in mexico and corrupting their children...or when he said that the mexican army on the border with guatemala was there to take the illegal guatemalans crossing into mexico, feed them, keep them safe and escort them back to their own country...or his insistence that having 10% of your nation's population living and working outside your country is a good thing...or when he said that, right now, 98% of the mexican children finish high school...etc...bush is just, plain dumb; fox is truly delusional.

one thing we can learn from this is that we shouldn't judge a country based on the idiots we sometimes elect.

carlos, don't believe the hype. things in the noticias (on both sides) are never quite the real story...despite what you hear about us living in absolute, mind-bending fear, just remember that only about half of our population is so idiotic...and our idiocy as a nation grows as we get closer to the border.

you know, sometimes its worth dealing with a few stupid code red, code orange stories that few believe in exchange for a glass of tap water that won't give you the squirts...

but having said that, it is cheaper to get laid in mexico...



anyway..
i prefer mexico over a country that lives in total, absolute, integral, day after day, fear of terrorist attacks...

... which will or might not come... but your actual goverment is having a field day using that to pull the strings of a once great country.

i love the following: "mission acomplished" and "we are at war".

up to today, the us has not been able to explain what "mission was acomplished" and who the us is at "war" with.

ps: am so sorry everyone in the world is better fit to resist e-colli over you guys states side... but does that excuse the poor level of sanitary conditions that are starting to prevail in the us???
back in 92 in the us, when the jack in the box e-colli scare went up, no stone was left unturned to finish and stop any possible outbreak like the one that happened.
now it's standard headline in the news, not even top headline news (might be a little box down in the corner front page)...
... or am i wrong???

Mill Just
10-24-07, 18:51
Hola Rapito,

I'm just going to give you one general rule seeing that Uno and Carlos have already given specifics:

Act with respect and general common sense in any mongering venue in Mexico and you'll be ok and safe. If you act with a degree of class and decorum, the chicas and the management will do their best to accomodate what you want. Most girls and places are NOT clip joints.

However, if you act like an arrogant asshole and try to either: 1) Not pay the chica or 2) demand and force things that the chica doesn't want to do, you will get either beaten and/or tossed in jail.

The degree of service and acts usually depends on the chicas. Some will be more open to touching and fingering and even kissing. Some will just want to give you the basic BJ/HJ/FS service. Again, go with the flow if you are new to the club and feel things out. After getting your feet wet, you'll get a sense of how far you can go with each chica.


Strip clubs may be a bit tough on a newbie with no mongering experience, so the high-end MPs might be the way to go for quality service with a cute chica in a relaxed atmosphere.

Have Fun,

Mill


Hi everybody. I've been reading this forum for a while and I wanted to get from you some advice. Some do's and don't's for a newbie. First of all, let me tell you that I have never been in a SP or MP. So, I'm a total rookie, a newbie, a novice. I know, some of you will think that I should read the rookie section in the forum. I read it, all of it. However, they talk about places and situations that may not have anything to do with Monterrey. I am also aware of the split opinions what's best between a MP and a SP. I personally prefer try first a MP because it seems to be more discrete and quiet.

MonterreyDude
11-05-07, 22:20
Mill

It isn't free publicity, we are actually tricking the House.

As in telling what is the real price to pay, what to expect from girls, rates and all, meaning we are not allowing the house to scam you.

If we don't post here that the Infinito girls charge 1000 pesos, you as an American will be charged 1500 pesos.

More examples: regular charge for a full service is 200-300 pesos. Girls see an American and on the spot charge them 500 pesos.

Ask me if a visitor from this thread has been overcharged and I ask the same question to you: has any visitor to Morelia been a victim of scams at the clubs or MPs?

No, cause they got you to help them out.

The House never ever likes some one to talk behind their backs. The House is always paranoid, so are the girls.

The girls hate when some one has the upper hand over them.

Worse part, imagine me, going to the Prestige and the Obsession where I know all the owners, one of them is my close neighbor, the other I meet at soccer games at school.

Imagine the reaction if they know that I tell gringo-candidates-to-be-scammed to be on the look out for surcharges, girls that ask for double drinks and jarras, girls that charge extras where none are needed.

I don't think they would be happy at all to suddenly realize that one of their regular customers, one that is favored by them is back stabber.

Mill Just
11-06-07, 21:12
Whom,

What amazes me still is that ANYBODY would take a working girl's word at face value. These girls will tell you anything that you want to hear. I have no doubt that the "G" Girl put down Uno to Master and I have no doubt that she will put down Master to Uno or even deny his existence. What people need to understand is that these girls are in the business of fulfilling fantasies and creating the illusion that they care about you. Many working girls like to cultivate relationships with guys just to have a system of support in case they need favors in the future. A gringo who is putty in their hands is a great tool to be used in the future. The key is to get those benefits of being a preferred customer while being able to keep your head above the BS being chucked at you.

I don't understand how some real experienced mongers who can see through the BS of the American strip clubs seem to get sucked up by the Mexican strip clubs. Maybe they really don't understand the culture or the language? But, I'll tell you this as someone who lives here in Mexico- Mexican strippers are of the exact socio-economic level as their American counterparts and just as reliable. The difference for us is that here in Mexico we are often considered the high-rollers.




2. These "investigative reports" are totally meaningless. Is MM that naive (I am being nice here) to think that he can a honest answer out of one these girls about a "customer" or a friend of theirs? Wow. MM must be the coolest operator in the World. He should join the CIA, they could use his "great" gift. If he is this good in getting answers, he needs to quit his job and do investigative work, I can him lots of work. Anyone who has ANY experience KNOWs that this type of behavior is a JOKE but a a mean spirited joke. I bet if a trusted person, who has known G for years would ask her about him, she would report something very negative. Why does MM assume these girls are idiots? USB, I bet G knows MM's attitude about her. How can you hide the attitude when you call them hos?

Bbond
11-22-07, 16:27
What amazes me still is that ANYBODY would take a working girl's word at face value. These girls will tell you anything that you want to hear.......................What people need to understand is that these girls are in the business of fulfilling fantasies and creating the illusion that they care about you. Many working girls like to cultivate relationships with guys just to have a system of support in case they need favors in the future. A gringo who is putty in their hands is a great tool to be used in the future.This is very true, and it is also common for them to be stringing several guys along at the same time. Each one thinking the girl actually cares about him.

The affection given is normally directly porportional to the amount of money spent on them.

Mill Just
11-23-07, 22:06
EDITOR'S NOTE: The commentary posted here was deleted because Mill Just is limited to posting information only and is specifically not permitted to post comments, opinions, stories or any other text regarding other Forum Members or the Forum Membership in general.

Mill Just
11-25-07, 10:07
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because I do not allow "Goodbye Forever" posts in the forum, generally because these posts amount to nothing more than a public "Kiss Off" from Serial Antagonists who are trying to stir up one final round of trouble before they switch to another alias. Thanks!