View Full Version : Racism against foreigners in Thailand
Old Thai Hand
04-12-08, 16:57
Are other SE Asian countries in on this tally? :confused: I believe some others are reeling in on LOS, or ahead. Agreed?
No. The Thais are far ahead of the pack within the region when it comes to stupid, nonsensical thinking.
Originally Posted by Satrai2000
Maybe the attitude of the Thais has to do with the fact that they copied their culture and religion from us.
...end quote
not to start a flame war - perhaps it is superiority STATEMENTS/THOUGHTS like this that cause your se asiaan brothers to be seemingly feel the wrath of the thais when you visit their homeland.
btw-I am asian myself!
MilesToGo, respectfully, Satrai is certainly right about religion, and Thailand did borrow from Indian culture as well.
Old Thai Hand
04-13-08, 04:40
.... it is obvious where this is going - I am NOT going to comment on this any further, you believe whatever ....
same to tiny - and budhism originated in indai too I suppose?
Your ignorance is mind-numbing...
Yes. Buddhism did originate in India. Prince Siddhartha Gautama was a 6th century BCE, Indian prince who became the Buddha. The most sacred Buddhist sites in the world are in India, especially Bodh Gaya where the Buddha received enlightenment. Every Buddhist country has a representative temple in Bodh Gaya. Before I ever came to Thailand, Bodh Gaya was the first place I ever saw a Buddhist temple. In fact, the Dalai Lama usually spends the months of January and February in Bodh Gaya.
Satrai is perfectly correct about a good deal of the religion and culture of Thailand coming from India. Theravaddha Buddhism as practiced in Thailand is a melding of Buddhism and Hinduism. Thais worship several Hindu gods especially Rama, Hanuman and Ganesha. The king of Thailand is considered the reincarnation of Rama and is thus so named: The current king is King Rama IX. Thai language, traditional Thai dress, the Thai 'wai', a good deal of the food, especially southern Thai food, Thai dance and music and ancient Thai temples etc. all have strong Indian influence.
It should also be pointed out that the Khmer Empire in Cambodia, from which the Thais copied or stole a good deal of their culture was Hindu for a good portion of its history and copied most of its culture from India. Angkor Wat, the most famous temple in Cambodia originally a Hindu temple dedicated to Vishnu is a representation of Mount Meru home of the Hindu gods.
The influence of Indian culture on the region from Indonesia to Malaysia, Burma, Cambodia, Laos and of course, Thailand is pervasive and well-established.
The Thai dislike for Indians may in part be an attitude of (totally unfounded) superiority. But, they feel this way towards everyone who isn't Thai. Thais, woefully ignorant of their own history and culture and believing their culture to be original and unique, when in fact almost all of it is stolen from other superior cultures (Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, Laotian) express a current dislike for Indians centred on rather base reasoning: skin colour and smell.
BTW, I would suggest in the future, you know what you are talking about before you start attacking people.
LittleBigMan
04-13-08, 08:06
Non-Factual Statement!
Previous talks about Indians on this board had me ask a question awhile back how do Thai's feel about Indians? The response was that Indians reminds him of Muslims which he dislike!
The Chinese also uses the phrase in reference to a person that is black as
Black ghost! From someone that is white, White ghost! I'm sure every race within the region have something bad to say about someone!
LBM
Satrai2000
04-13-08, 15:34
Your ignorance is mind-numbing...
Yes. Buddhism did originate in India. Prince Siddhartha Gautama was a 6th century BCE, Indian prince who became the Buddha. The most sacred Buddhist sites in the world are in India, especially Bodh Gaya where the Buddha received enlightenment. Every Buddhist country has a representative temple in Bodh Gaya. Before I ever came to Thailand, Bodh Gaya was the first place I ever saw a Buddhist temple. In fact, the Dalai Lama usually spends the months of January and February in Bodh Gaya.
Satrai is perfectly correct about a good deal of the religion and culture of Thailand coming from India. Theravaddha Buddhism as practiced in Thailand is a melding of Buddhism and Hinduism. Thais worship several Hindu gods especially Rama, Hanuman and Ganesha. The king of Thailand is considered the reincarnation of Rama and is thus so named: The current king is King Rama IX. Thai language, traditional Thai dress, the Thai 'wai', a good deal of the food, especially southern Thai food, Thai dance and music and ancient Thai temples etc. all have strong Indian influence.
It should also be pointed out that the Khmer Empire in Cambodia, from which the Thais copied or stole a good deal of their culture was Hindu for a good portion of its history and copied most of its culture from India. Angkor Wat, the most famous temple in Cambodia originally a Hindu temple dedicated to Vishnu is a representation of Mount Meru home of the Hindu gods.
The influence of Indian culture on the region from Indonesia to Malaysia, Burma, Cambodia, Laos and of course, Thailand is pervasive and well-established.
The Thai dislike for Indians may in part be an attitude of (totally unfounded) superiority. But, they feel this way towards everyone who isn't Thai. Thais, woefully ignorant of their own history and culture and believing their culture to be original and unique, when in fact almost all of it is stolen from other superior cultures (Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, Laotian) express a current dislike for Indians centred on rather base reasoning: skin colour and smell.
BTW, I would suggest in the future, you know what you are talking about before you start attacking people.(About this history: You wrote here what I wanted to write!)
However, I doubt that the dislike has to do with skin-colour or smell. Like me there are lots of Indians, in particular from North-India, that are fairer than the average Thai. And there are plenty of non-Indian tourists in BKK that do not smell very good too.
I strongly have a feeling that there must be some economical reason for this. Has it to do with the relative economical succes of some Indian immigrants/traders in the past? Has it to do with the fact that in the past there were Indian money-lenders who asked high interest-rates?
Very often dislike for people from other countries has very much to do with the relative economical position of this people. You see this in some African countries like Kenia and Uganda who kicked out the (rich) Indians in last century. The Indonesians have done horrible things to wealthy Chinese. And don't forget the Jews.
Fascinating post OTH, thanks for taking the time to write it.
Your ignorance is mind-numbing...
Yes. Buddhism did originate in India. Prince Siddhartha Gautama was a 6th century BCE, Indian prince who became the Buddha. The most sacred Buddhist sites in the world are in India, especially Bodh Gaya where the Buddha received enlightenment. Every Buddhist country has a representative temple in Bodh Gaya. Before I ever came to Thailand, Bodh Gaya was the first place I ever saw a Buddhist temple. In fact, the Dalai Lama usually spends the months of January and February in Bodh Gaya.
Satrai is perfectly correct about a good deal of the religion and culture of Thailand coming from India. Theravaddha Buddhism as practiced in Thailand is a melding of Buddhism and Hinduism. Thais worship several Hindu gods especially Rama, Hanuman and Ganesha. The king of Thailand is considered the reincarnation of Rama and is thus so named: The current king is King Rama IX. Thai language, traditional Thai dress, the Thai 'wai', a good deal of the food, especially southern Thai food, Thai dance and music and ancient Thai temples etc. all have strong Indian influence.
It should also be pointed out that the Khmer Empire in Cambodia, from which the Thais copied or stole a good deal of their culture was Hindu for a good portion of its history and copied most of its culture from India. Angkor Wat, the most famous temple in Cambodia originally a Hindu temple dedicated to Vishnu is a representation of Mount Meru home of the Hindu gods.
The influence of Indian culture on the region from Indonesia to Malaysia, Burma, Cambodia, Laos and of course, Thailand is pervasive and well-established.
The Thai dislike for Indians may in part be an attitude of (totally unfounded) superiority. But, they feel this way towards everyone who isn't Thai. Thais, woefully ignorant of their own history and culture and believing their culture to be original and unique, when in fact almost all of it is stolen from other superior cultures (Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, Laotian) express a current dislike for Indians centred on rather base reasoning: skin colour and smell.
BTW, I would suggest in the future, you know what you are talking about before you start attacking people.
One of the few comments from OTH I agree with (except smell). For reasons I can't fathom everyone talks about Indian smells. Having lived in the US for more than 30 years, let me state categorically, that smelling bad is not the exclusivity of Indians. The whites, the blacks (oops African Americans) Vienamese etc. etc. also at times smell bad. As with any culture not all Indians smell bad either. I believe that rather than say the real thing they just use that reason to mask their dislike for Indians.
One of the main reasons for dislike is rooted in the past. When Indians first traded with Thailand, they were also money lenders. When the Thai could not pay back, they took over their properties. Indians have quite large real estate holdings in Thailand.
Another reason is the fault of the Thai government. Fares between Thailand and India is so ridiculously cheap, that for Indians it is cheaper to travel there, than traveling north to south within India. This brought a huge number of low, uneducated class of Indians to Thailand. What then did you expect?
Personally, the level of discrimination is no different than what I have encountered in England, Ireland, Germany, Singapore, Australia etc. And for those Indians complaining about Thai discrimination, chill out. It is your attitude, personal hygiene, and self presentation (i.e. dressing well) is what singles you out. Think about the discrimination within India itself.
IMHO, this issue of discrimination is being blown out of proportion.
AsiaTraveler2
04-13-08, 18:44
Racism can never be explained rationally. If this mindset is true (Thai opinions of Indians), it certainly is disappointing in light of the significant influence Indian Culture has played in Thai Culture. On the other hand, the Thai's would not be alone in this world, with regard to racism. Every country has more than their fair share of it. You don’t realize the depth of this problem, until you are the target of it or are another minority thrown into the mix and see it from the middle of both worlds. Google it, and you will see the tip of this huge iceberg. Travel and observe and you will see it and hear it, in the news and in person.
It is the reason I get on my soap box at times, regarding the stereotyping of others. It’s a precursor to racism. As an Asian who lived in North America for a while, I had to put up with my fair share in my own country. You see it on this board all the time. Some derogatory remark, that seems to slide by without the slightest protest, until someone from that country/race has to jump in to protest.
Hopefully, we can all learn from this. Start with removing stereotypes from your mindset. Judge and improve the behavior of your own race, before you judge too harshly another.
Peace,
AT2
AsiaTraveler2
04-13-08, 18:56
<cut>
One of the main reasons for dislike is rooted in the past. When Indians first traded with Thailand, they were also money lenders. When the Thai could not pay back, they took over their properties. Indians have quite large real estate holdings in Thailand.
Duni,
BINGO! The past has a major influence in all race/country relationships. Even when those that did the damage are no longer living. The damage continues. Each generation passes on the hate and the stereotypes to the next generation. After enough time the hate no longer makes any sense, but it continues.
AT2
Duniawala, AsiaTraveler, Satrai,
I'm going to play devil's advocate, because your thoughts do make sense, but how do you explain the Chinese in Thailand? Chinese control a LOT more wealth in Thailand than people of Indian ancestry.
Indians have maintained a distinct ethnic and racial identity in Thailand. I wonder if that's the reason for the prejudice. The Chinese are better integrated into Thai society, and intermarriage between Thais and Chinese is common.
It's interesting contrasting with Indonesia. I know some Indians in Jakarta, and they don't appear to have problems by virtue of their race. The Chinese on the other hand have been mercilessly persecuted through the years. There aren't that many Indians in Indonesia though.
Duniawala, AsiaTraveler, Satrai,
I'm going to play devil's advocate, because your thoughts do make sense, but how do you explain the Chinese in Thailand? Chinese control a LOT more wealth in Thailand than people of Indian ancestry.
Indians have maintained a distinct ethnic and racial identity in Thailand. I wonder if that's the reason for the prejudice. The Chinese are better integrated into Thai society, and intermarriage between Thais and Chinese is common.
It's interesting contrasting with Indonesia. I know some Indians in Jakarta, and they don't appear to have problems by virtue of their race. The Chinese on the other hand have been mercilessly persecuted through the years. There aren't that many Indians in Indonesia though.
The Thais has an history of extreme racism perpetuated by their royalty.
The Chinese share a common river with Thailand. Much easier to migrate to the south. The Chinese also came to the region for trade and businesses. While the Chinese were much closer the Indians were from a far off country. The Chinese businesses grew and were soon controlling the money (the ‘money farm’). The Thai Royalty saw them as a necessity. The Chinese needed the Thais for trade and the Thais needed their money. So it is a kind of marriage. However, that does not mean the Chinese don't maintain their ethnicity and racial identity. Their children are taught Chinese so they can do business with other Chinese.
However, the Chinese are also referred to as “towkay” or as “jek” by the Thais, a rather derogatory term. So much for Chinese assimilation. You can also read this book “Global Multiculturalism: Comparative Perspectives on Ethnicity, Race, and Nation by Grant Hermans Cornwell, Eve Walsh Stoddard” .
They are also of very fair skin. To a culture where fair skin is much in demand, it is much favorably look upon. But I am not sure how many Thai marriages are there between ethnic Chinese and ethnic Thais in terms of percentage of the population.. Maybe OTH can answer.
Indonesia was also a Hindu nation, before much of it converted to Islam. Even today one island is completely Hindu. However, the same Indians who traded with Thailand also traded with Indonesia. Ethnically they looked similar. I am not sure but maybe the Chinese were ‘farangs’ and were not welcomed. Ask OTH.
NicFrenchy
04-14-08, 02:18
One of the few comments from OTH I agree with (except smell). For reasons I can't fathom everyone talks about Indian smells. Having lived in the US for more than 30 years, let me state categorically, that smelling bad is not the exclusivity of Indians.
Duni,
With all due respect, please allow me to disagree.
While you are probably right about the History of Thais, Indians and land ownership, keep in mind that your garden variety Thai (or actually 90% of the population) does not have the first damn clue about their own history.
I know that the smell is not exclusive to indians, but is that going to change the Thai's mindset? I think not.
They will continue to dislike Indians for reasons of Skin Color and Body odor, and the reason for this is because that is what they are thought by their elders.
While your post was very true and informative, it is unfortunately not applicable to most of the Thai population
Old Thai Hand
04-14-08, 04:34
Duni,
With all due respect, please allow me to disagree.
While you are probably right about the History of Thais, Indians and land ownership, keep in mind that your garden variety Thai (or actually 90% of the population) does not have the first damn clue about their own history.
I know that the smell is not exclusive to indians, but is that going to change the Thai's mindset? I think not.
They will continue to dislike Indians for reasons of Skin Color and Body odor, and the reason for this is because that is what they are thought by their elders.
While your post was very true and informative, it is unfortunately not applicable to most of the Thai population
100% true.
Also, the Thai-Chinese control most of the country and have integrated well, through marriage with the ethnic Thai population. The Thai royal family even has Chinese blood. Also, the Chinese are mostly Buddhist. There is a differentiation between the Chinese here who remain largely ethnically pure and the mixed Thai-Chinese. The former are not liked by many Thais. My GF showed me a picture of her staff and in pointing out 2 girls who to me both looked Chinese, she noted one was "Jek" (100% Chinese, and not well-liked) while the other was Thai-Chinese and therefore considered 'acceptable'. The fact that the girl who was "Jek" had been born here, as had her parents meant little. So, there is a differentiation even between the ethnic Chinese in Thailand and the Thai-Chinese.
In contrast, the Indian population keeps itself quite segregated from the population at large both socially and through religion. There are few inter-racial marriages between Indians and Thais. While I see more mixing among Indian and Thai students, than I have in the past, the Indian students are far more clannish and still tend to stick with their own. The older generation of Indians is almost exclusively so.
So part of the problem, intra-culturally, is self-imposed segregation,which contributes to misunderstanding.
Throughout all these types of discussions. the point that really should be stressed is that Thais of all stripes are highly judgemental. I've often mentioned that for a culture that 'officially' stresses what is in fact, a false sense of unity and being homogenous, there is an incredible amount of back-biting that goes on here. Ethnic differences and even regionalism doesn't even begin to describe how Thais see each other. Unity only really comes into play when they face a common enemy - anyone who is an 'outsider' (especially Farang).
Other than that, they love to insult other Thais who are not the same as them.
The classic animosity is pretty well all Thais north of Chumphon looking down on southern Thais: the general view is that southern Thais are dark, loud, aggressive, dishonest, speak Thai too quickly and of course a lot of them are Muslim. The sectarian war in the deep south has only served to harden this view. Bangkok Thais look down on anyone, not from Bangkok, especially from upcountry (except the northern areas around Chiang Mai). Then you have ethnic Thais looking down on people from Isaan or Isaan people hating northerners, especially from around Chiang Rai - and vis versa. Even in Isaan, you have Isaan people who look down on those from Surin and Buriram because they speak Khmer, not Isaan-Lao and have very dark skin. Then you have those from Ubon Ratchathani looking down on those from Udon Thani because they are mixed race and dark-skinned (Ubon people are mixed too, but more Lao, Vietnamese, Chinese and therefore lighter skinned) and it goes on and on and on...
At the end of the day, trying to affix some rational explanation to it all (like any racism or xenophobia) is a lost cause.
Old Thai Hand
04-14-08, 05:20
For reasons I can't fathom everyone talks about Indian smells. Having lived in the US for more than 30 years, let me state categorically, that smelling bad is not the exclusivity of Indians. The whites, the blacks (oops African Americans) Vienamese etc. etc. also at times smell bad.
If it's any consolation, the Thais think that many Farang (especially Europeans) smell bad, as well. Like their opinion about Indians, they attribute this to diet, as well as personal hygiene.
AsiaTraveler2
04-14-08, 05:31
If it's any consolation, the Thais think that many Farang (especially Europeans) smell bad, as well. Like their opinion about Indians, they attribute this to diet, as well as personal hygiene.
This applies to all races. It comes down to "you are what you eat" (So some of you are definitely pussies .. ;)). Anything different is bad. It's unfortunate that the world can't get past this.
AT2
AsiaTraveler2
04-14-08, 05:39
100% true.
Also, the Thai-Chinese control most of the country and have integrated well, through marriage with the ethnic Thai population. The Thai royal family even has Chinese blood. Also, the Chinese are mostly Buddhist. There is a differentiation between the Chinese here who remain largely ethnically pure and the mixed Thai-Chinese. The former are not liked by many Thais. <cut>
At the end of the day, trying to affix some rational explanation to it all (like any racism or xenophobia) is a lost cause.
Interesting, but I still find it very difficult to apply one standard answer to millions of people. There are far too many complexities and layers. Really, what you described can be applied to any part of the world. I go back to my belief, that the Thai's are not unique in this regard. Color, smell, height, weight, looks, race, class, where you were born, etc. are all part of the judgement process in all parts of the world. It's only when you are in the minority, does it appear obvious. Look at how judgemental and racist many of our own members can be, and they hail from all parts of the world.
If there's one part I do agree with, it's that it's never rational. I do find it ironic that the Thai's are being singled out for racism and all of the supporting arguments in this thread are negative stereotypes.
AT2
a lot is being talked about racism against indians fron thais, and i would like to add abit of my own, being indian, i am from the northern part of india, have been brought up here, lived here all my life, have travelled the world over, usa, eurpoe, s. e. asia and australia etc. etc. , before my first trip to the us, i thought they were racist however i was totally proven wrong, they were the most friendlist nation, however new yorkers were mostly in a hurry i guress that was the pace of the city and not any other reason, i feel problems that the thais have are not smell or culture, but in the end like all other things money, an average india, makes way lesser money than an average america/eurpoean and it is a known fact that we indians are the 2nd highest in population when comparwed to the rest of the world, anyways, an average bar girl charges 2500 b, which is what asay 70usd (with the fallen dollar, used to be way lesser), how much in money yerms is it for a american or european, pocketchange i guess, for an indian it is like 3500 indian rupees, which is a lot, because of the is unfavourable exchange rate and lesser average income level, it turns out to be a lot to most indians, who resort to mostly bargaining and haggling, which i feel is the roott cause to all the dislike towards indians, indians i would admit are huge misers when it comes to taking out money, though i am not talikng about all of us, with the economy growing at huge pace, indians are far richer than mostly everybody else, however a country like thailnd who is pimping about everything whether is is girls, or taxi or maybe even a plain t shirt being sold on the streets, thai feel they can get more bucks out of a farang vis a vis an indian who will haggle his way out, hence the racism and discrimnation, and yes they do think indians mostly are muslims and hence are hated like arabs, anyway i would agree with all the friends here at the forum that thais need to be more open in thier appproach and need to understand that a person's qualites do not depend on his color or nationality but on him purely, and need to be less judgemental in thier thought process.
interesting, but i still find it very difficult to apply one standard answer to millions of people. there are far too many complexities and layers. really, what you described can be applied to any part of the world. i go back to my belief, that the thai's are not unique in this regard. color, smell, height, weight, looks, race, class, where you were born, etc. are all part of the judgement process in all parts of the world. it's only when you are in the minority, does it appear obvious. look at how judgemental and racist many of our own members can be, and they hail from all parts of the world.
if there's one part i do agree with, it's that it's never rational. i do find it ironic that the thai's are being singled out for racism and all of the supporting arguments in this thread are negative stereotypes.
at2
Ther new airport Suvarnabhoomi is also an indian word meaning Golden (suvarna)land( bhooomi), yes they did get a lot from our culture.
Your ignorance is mind-numbing...
Yes. Buddhism did originate in India. Prince Siddhartha Gautama was a 6th century BCE, Indian prince who became the Buddha. The most sacred Buddhist sites in the world are in India, especially Bodh Gaya where the Buddha received enlightenment. Every Buddhist country has a representative temple in Bodh Gaya. Before I ever came to Thailand, Bodh Gaya was the first place I ever saw a Buddhist temple. In fact, the Dalai Lama usually spends the months of January and February in Bodh Gaya.
Satrai is perfectly correct about a good deal of the religion and culture of Thailand coming from India. Theravaddha Buddhism as practiced in Thailand is a melding of Buddhism and Hinduism. Thais worship several Hindu gods especially Rama, Hanuman and Ganesha. The king of Thailand is considered the reincarnation of Rama and is thus so named: The current king is King Rama IX. Thai language, traditional Thai dress, the Thai 'wai', a good deal of the food, especially southern Thai food, Thai dance and music and ancient Thai temples etc. all have strong Indian influence.
It should also be pointed out that the Khmer Empire in Cambodia, from which the Thais copied or stole a good deal of their culture was Hindu for a good portion of its history and copied most of its culture from India. Angkor Wat, the most famous temple in Cambodia originally a Hindu temple dedicated to Vishnu is a representation of Mount Meru home of the Hindu gods.
The influence of Indian culture on the region from Indonesia to Malaysia, Burma, Cambodia, Laos and of course, Thailand is pervasive and well-established.
The Thai dislike for Indians may in part be an attitude of (totally unfounded) superiority. But, they feel this way towards everyone who isn't Thai. Thais, woefully ignorant of their own history and culture and believing their culture to be original and unique, when in fact almost all of it is stolen from other superior cultures (Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, Laotian) express a current dislike for Indians centred on rather base reasoning: skin colour and smell.
BTW, I would suggest in the future, you know what you are talking about before you start attacking people.
Old Thai Hand
04-14-08, 13:38
Interesting, but I still find it very difficult to apply one standard answer to millions of people.AT2
You clearly don't understand the group mind-set of Thai culture or, brain-washing nature of Thai education, not to mention Thai media and politics. So, in fact, in the case of the Thais, one can apply a standard answer to 60 million people.
I don't agree with your belief that what I describe could be applied to any part of the world. Thailand may not be completely unique. Other relatively homogenous cultures (at least in terms of official policy) may be similar in their "us and them" thinking( the Japanese come to mind). But, the Thai powers-that-be have been unrelenting in their indoctrination of the population to be insular, blindly nationalistic, anti-foreigner and to have an overall disproportionate, and unrealistic belief in the greatness of their country, culture and king at the expense of all others. The cornerstone of this, is the Thais' unwillingness or complete inability to question the nonsense that has been driven into their heads all their lives. To question is in fact viewed as anti-Thai. I can tell you that a Thai student, for example who dares to question anything a teacher says, even if what the teacher says can be proven to be incorrect will face severe punishment. This continues into the workplace where blind obedience is the order of the day. With this way of thinking drilled into Thais from an early age, obedience, collective thinking and being told by elders (who also went through the same system) who to trust and who not to trust, and you have an environment ripe for racism and xenophobia. As a result, the Thais remain one of the most ignorant people I've ever encountered. As a university educator, I'm astounded at the lack of basic knowledge, the warped cultural bias and the complete lack of understanding of the world at large displayed by Thai students coming out of 12 years of the Thai education system. While I try my best to counter the crap taught to them by ill-informed Thai academics, and to try to instill in them the necessity to think critically and question everything, it's almost a lost cause, so ingrained is the mind-control to which they've been subjected. All of this, more than anything else separates them from many other peoples of the world.
I deal with these attitudes, in a very direct way, every single day and therefore speak from very extensive experience. One thing that I hear more than any other is how "dangerous" outside forces are to the stability of Thai culture. Everything in this country revolves around control of the masses. Therefore, such things as the Internet, globalization and the resultant influx of foreign culture and ways of thinking is viewed with increased suspicion and fear by those in power and this suspicion and fear is disseminated to the masses, with the resultant xenophobia that is a very real part of Thais attitudes.
Ralph Kramden
04-14-08, 14:58
A long time Japanese acquaintance once commented to me that the reason the Japanese like to visit Thailand so much is because they feel the Thai culture is more similar to theirs than any other in Asia.
OTH, you know what you speak of. You just described the mindset of both the Thais and Japanese. I have lived in Japan about as long as you have lived in Thailand, and have observed them critically. They think they are highly sophisticated, but they really aren't at all. They continuously shoot themselves in their own foot and are their own worst enemy.
Sound familiar? It should because the Thais and Japanese both have the same warped way of thinking. The Japanese just work harder. The Thais let the Chinese do all the smart work for them.
AsiaTraveler2
04-14-08, 17:53
A long time Japanese acquaintance once commented to me that the reason the Japanese like to visit Thailand so much is because they feel the Thai culture is more similar to theirs than any other in Asia.
OTH, you know what you speak of. You just described the mindset of both the Thais and Japanese. I have lived in Japan about as long as you have lived in Thailand, and have observed them critically. They think they are highly sophisticated, but they really aren't at all. They continuously shoot themselves in their own foot and are their own worst enemy.
Sound familiar? It should because the Thais and Japanese both have the same warped way of thinking. The Japanese just work harder. The Thais let the Chinese do all the smart work for them.
Ralph,
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your thoughts on this and that you just insulted some of the nicest people I know and some of my dearest friends. I can't even fathom what you have seen in your "experiences", because they don't resemble mine at all. That's why it's pure lunacy to stereotype. You could be following your own blind brain washing and could simply be seeing what you want or were taught to see.
Please, by all means explain what that "warped" behavior is and also be kind enough to explain which superior country and race you belong to.
I would really appreciate it.
Peace,
AT2
AsiaTraveler2
04-14-08, 18:02
You clearly don't understand the group mind-set of Thai culture or, brain-washing nature of Thai education, not to mention Thai media and politics. So, in fact, in the case of the Thais, one can apply a standard answer to 60 million people.
I don't agree with your belief that what I describe could be applied to any part of the world. Thailand may not be completely unique. Other relatively homogenous cultures (at least in terms of official policy) may be similar in their "us and them" thinking( the Japanese come to mind). But, the Thai powers-that-be have been unrelenting in their indoctrination of the population to be insular, blindly nationalistic, anti-foreigner and to have an overall disproportionate, and unrealistic belief in the greatness of their country, culture and king at the expense of all others. The cornerstone of this, is the Thais' unwillingness or complete inability to question the nonsense that has been driven into their heads all their lives. To question is in fact viewed as anti-Thai. I can tell you that a Thai student, for example who dares to question anything a teacher says, even if what the teacher says can be proven to be incorrect will face severe punishment. This continues into the workplace where blind obedience is the order of the day. With this way of thinking drilled into Thais from an early age, obedience, collective thinking and being told by elders (who also went through the same system) who to trust and who not to trust, and you have an environment ripe for racism and xenophobia. As a result, the Thais remain one of the most ignorant people I've ever encountered. As a university educator, I'm astounded at the lack of basic knowledge, the warped cultural bias and the complete lack of understanding of the world at large displayed by Thai students coming out of 12 years of the Thai education system. While I try my best to counter the crap taught to them by ill-informed Thai academics, and to try to instill in them the necessity to think critically and question everything, it's almost a lost cause, so ingrained is the mind-control to which they've been subjected. All of this, more than anything else separates them from many other peoples of the world.
I deal with these attitudes, in a very direct way, every single day and therefore speak from very extensive experience. One thing that I hear more than any other is how "dangerous" outside forces are to the stability of Thai culture. Everything in this country revolves around control of the masses. Therefore, such things as the Internet, globalization and the resultant influx of foreign culture and ways of thinking is viewed with increased suspicion and fear by those in power and this suspicion and fear is disseminated to the masses, with the resultant xenophobia that is a very real part of Thais attitudes.
I have worked with Thai's and have gotten to know Thai's outside of Thailand. Recent transplants, so they have not had a chance to be "de-programmed" based on your view of the Thai world. They do not have any of the belief systems you mention, with the exception of love of their country (which everyone I know does too). They are open to new ideas and facinated by the other cultures in our melting pot. They date people from other races and have no issue with skin color. Sorry, but let's agree to disagree.
I think it's important to note, that in countries with a heavy hand, there's the surface behavior and their true feelings and attitudes that lie beneath the surface. Once you get to know them on a personal basis, you find out their thoughts and feelings are the same as ours. That's been my experience, everywhere.
In Hawaii, we get a steady flow of newbies to the islands. From those who lived in North America and Europe, to those direct from Asia. All of them have been very unique individuals and have become co-workers and friends.
I think it would be fair that those who post in this thread, maybe state their race and home country? Then we can get a picture of who the Thai's are being compared to. It would be interesting to say the least.
Peace,
AT2
I have worked with Thai's and have gotten to know Thai's outside of Thailand. Recent transplants, so they have not had a chance to be "de-programmed" based on your view of the Thai world. They do not have any of the belief systems you mention. Sorry, but let's agree to disagree.
I think it's important to note, that in countries with a heavy hand, there's the surface behavior and their true feelings and attitudes that lie beneath the surface. Once you get to know them on a personal basis, you find out their thoughts and feelings are the same as ours. That's been my experience, everywhere.
In Hawaii, we get a steady flow of newbies to the islands. From those who lived in North America and Europe, to those direct from Asia. All of them have been very unique individuals and have become co-workers and friends.
Peace,
AT2
I have to agree OTH. When I first got to Thailand I was taken back by Thai behavior especially my college educated... job at the airport having female friend. I thought they were just plain fucking weird. Once I brushed up on the culture got to checking out some sites I realize they were being Thai.
AsiaTraveler2
04-14-08, 18:42
I have to agree OTH. When I first got to Thailand I was taken back by Thai behavior especially my college educated... job at the airport having female friend. I thought they were just plain fucking weird. Once I brushed up on the culture got to checking out some sites I realize they were being Thai.
I know there will be others who will chime in like you. This is, after all a thread based on racist rants against Thai's. Please be kind enough to tell us what country you are from and what your race is, so we can understand how the "warped" Thai's compare with your way of life.
The system may be screwed up and maybe the powers that be (every country has gone through this), but I find the people are just fine the way they are.
Peace,
AT2
AT2 - I remember what Ben Franklin said in a famous epistle - "In praise of older women"
"In the dark all cats are black" ;)
Starchild2012
04-14-08, 20:00
You clearly don't understand the group mind-set of Thai culture or, brain-washing nature of Thai education, not to mention Thai media and politics. So, in fact, in the case of the Thais, one can apply a standard answer to 60 million people.
I don't agree with your belief that what I describe could be applied to any part of the world. Thailand may not be completely unique. Other relatively homogenous cultures (at least in terms of official policy) may be similar in their "us and them" thinking( the Japanese come to mind). But, the Thai powers-that-be have been unrelenting in their indoctrination of the population to be insular, blindly nationalistic, anti-foreigner and to have an overall disproportionate, and unrealistic belief in the greatness of their country, culture and king at the expense of all others. The cornerstone of this, is the Thais' unwillingness or complete inability to question the nonsense that has been driven into their heads all their lives. To question is in fact viewed as anti-Thai. I can tell you that a Thai student, for example who dares to question anything a teacher says, even if what the teacher says can be proven to be incorrect will face severe punishment. This continues into the workplace where blind obedience is the order of the day. With this way of thinking drilled into Thais from an early age, obedience, collective thinking and being told by elders (who also went through the same system) who to trust and who not to trust, and you have an environment ripe for racism and xenophobia. As a result, the Thais remain one of the most ignorant people I've ever encountered. As a university educator, I'm astounded at the lack of basic knowledge, the warped cultural bias and the complete lack of understanding of the world at large displayed by Thai students coming out of 12 years of the Thai education system. While I try my best to counter the crap taught to them by ill-informed Thai academics, and to try to instill in them the necessity to think critically and question everything, it's almost a lost cause, so ingrained is the mind-control to which they've been subjected. All of this, more than anything else separates them from many other peoples of the world.
I deal with these attitudes, in a very direct way, every single day and therefore speak from very extensive experience. One thing that I hear more than any other is how "dangerous" outside forces are to the stability of Thai culture. Everything in this country revolves around control of the masses. Therefore, such things as the Internet, globalization and the resultant influx of foreign culture and ways of thinking is viewed with increased suspicion and fear by those in power and this suspicion and fear is disseminated to the masses, with the resultant xenophobia that is a very real part of Thais attitudes.
I would agree with your earlier post on how Thais got most of their culture from India and now..its seems contradictory...cos if they are the way they are as you described in this post from generations..there is no way...that they could have allowed buddism & indian culture into Thailand.
I mean we are talking about religion being accepted into one owns life..greater than business, marriage or anything else being accpeted into a society.
I think its all about love and compassion, If buddhas deciple could do it and change the Thais as you describe them they were for centuries..why can't it be done now.:)
Men and nations are pigs now a days period :) ... ...People back then went to thailand with good intention and to spread spirituality and they were accpeted into their society...now we go with selfish needs and wants..how do you expect to be treated in thailand.
Even today..if some one like buddha is born and goes to thailand..he will be accpeted with open arms..... be it from africa or india or america, it will not matter.
I know there will be others who will chime in like you. This is, after all a thread based on racist rants against Thai's. Please be kind enough to tell us what country you are from and what your race is, so we can understand how the "warped" Thai's compare with your way of life.
The system may be screwed up and maybe the powers that be (every country has gone through this), but I find the people are just fine the way they are.
Peace,
AT2
I am not slamming Thais or their culture just saying it was weird to me. Dude I don't throw racist insults it’s not my style I am bigger then that. I had a Thai friend who promised to pick me up at the airport she came saw me and turned and went home. When I called her she informed she was now busy eating? While going around town with her she made comments about my skin color refused to show me where she lived made comments about how healthy she was and knew full well my whole reason for coming to Thailand in the first place was to see a Doctor.
She was just beaming with insecurity. I have friends all over the globe Pakis, Japanese, I live in Metro Manila most of the time if they say they are going to do something they do it. They are polite and got your back 24/7 especially when knowing you as long as I knew this girl. Went to a dentist I had corresponded with online before my arrival he played dumb and just ignored me. I can go on and on about my experiences all around the country to hammer my point. In my mind and from my perspective they are a weird lot. I am sure they think the same about us.
And as for my way of life a short biopic... I am in my late 20s and in the last 5 years I have lived in South Korea, Philippines, Japan, Afghanistan, spent a month in Dubai and now I am back in Metro Manila. That’s my way of life. :)
AsiaTraveler2
04-15-08, 00:10
I am not slamming Thais or their culture just saying it was weird to me. Dude I don't throw racist insults it’s not my style I am bigger then that. <cut>
And as for my way of life a short biopic... I am in my late 20s and in the last 5 years I have lived in South Korea, Philippines, Japan, Afghanistan, spent a month in Dubai and now I am back in Metro Manila. That’s my way of life. :)
D Etat,
We may be talking semantics here. Weird has a very negative connotation and would be considered a "slam" in my book. Interesting, fascinating, different would be how I would term some of the cultural differences. The behavior you describe from your friend, does not match any of the Thai's I know well. I just find it very difficult to assign a trait to an entire population of people. Just can't do it.
I too have travelled the globe. I can't comment on the Middle East (have not been there), but I have a friend who has been there. I have always found people to be people. Somewhat predictable, if you understand their circumstances but still very much individuals.
Racism is simply the belief that a persons own race is somehow instrinsically superior to another. Normally, the basis for that would be certain negative traits or stereotypes. I can't help but believe this is what's being discussed here. Not specifically by you, but the nature of this thread. The Thai's are quote "racist", but the arguments for this are inherently racist in nature too. The proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
Peace,
AT2
The Thai's are quote "racist", but the arguments for this are inherently racist in nature too. The proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
It is the reason I get on my soap box at times, regarding the stereotyping of others. It’s a precursor to racism. As an Asian who lived in North America for a while, I had to put up with my fair share in my own country. You see it on this board all the time. Some derogatory remark, that seems to slide by without the slightest protest, until someone from that country/race has to jump in to protest.
So then, from your first quote above, someone who calls attention to or provides examples of racism is practicing racism himself? If everyone believed that people with African blood would still be slaves in the Americas.
You've pointed out that you don't truly recognize racism until you're part of the minority that's being discriminated against. And that you've suffered this sort of treatment at the hands of North Americans. Are you of East Asian ancestry? If so, then by your own arguments you're not really qualified to judge whether Thais are racist when it comes to Indians, whites and blacks.
It sounds like you think you should be able to protest racism when it affects you, but the rest of us shouldn't be allowed the same privilege.
Old Thai Hand
04-15-08, 03:06
i would agree with your earlier post on how thais got most of their culture from india and now..its seems contradictory...cos if they are the way they are as you described in this post from generations..there is no way...that they could have allowed buddism & indian culture into thailand.
what i describe is the way the thais are now, a situation that has evolved over the last 100 years during which time the thais have moved from an absolute monarchy to an endless series of dictatorships that have had xenophobia and racism as a common theme and official policy.
i could bury everyone's arguments, including asiatraveler2's quaint take on things in a ton of cultural facts that would make your heads spin.
i stand by my belief that the whole population can be tarred with the same brush. in a culture that is such a rigid hierarchy, the populace at large can be forgiven their attitudes because they've been brow-beaten into all thinking a certain way by the relative handful of power elite. it is the power elite who are to blame for the sad state of this country.
i am assuming at2 that you don't live here, but are merely a frequent visitor. i'm sorry. but, if that's true, you are hardly in a position to rebut my arguments. unless you have in-depth, daily experience of dealing with thais and can come up with a convincing argument based on that experience that refutes my assertion that thais are both racist and xenophobic, then your opinions are not valid.
i live with a thai, and although she's fairly educated, and reasonably intelligent, she has gone through the system and therefore her attitudes, when i met her were pretty typically biased and warped. i have managed to educate her about the true nature of things, especially when it comes to other cultures and she's much more open-minded, now. but, old prejudices still come out, now and then, and at the very least she's a good source of information about what thais are taught growing up. it's quite alarming to hear the kind of nonsense that she learned in school and from her elders and peers.
i suffer thai prejudice in one form or other every day, both from interactions with average thais as well as with my so-called educated thai colleagues at work. admittedly, a lot of it is slight and somewhat inoccuous. but, still it's there and it's relentless. a lot of it is born out of shear ignorance and/or unfounded fear. but, knowledge of the causes doesn't dampen its effect. the sad thing is that because it is a top-down situation, chances are slim to none that thais will ever become enlightened.
SE Asia Joe
04-15-08, 05:03
I have on occassion read this thread as it really intrigues me how you guys can go on and on about this single subject.
Now, I'm not flaming anybody and I definitely am not in any position to judge the relative value of this topic in a forum dedicated to paid sex (and actually... also other topics equally vociferously debated on the Thailand forum for that matter!!). You've debated since 1-1-07, over 19 pages and it still goes on!
I am just really intrigued and curious to know what each contributor here hopes to put accross to the general reader. And if you guys really think that racism in thailand - whether it exists or not or even the "degree" of racism here - actually matters in general context of mongering?
Fact is, I notice that the Thai forum DOES seem to have such a multitude of topics covered - all for a country that is not any larger than one province in China!
Please, like I said, am not flaming anybody!!
Peace peace Peace to all of guys there!
SEAJ
...Please be kind enough to tell us what country you are from and what your race is, so we can understand how the "warped" Thai's compare with your way of life...
...I think it would be fair that those who post in this thread, maybe state their race and home country? Then we can get a picture of who the Thai's are being compared to. It would be interesting to say the least...
...It is the reason I get on my soap box at times, regarding the stereotyping of others. It’s a precursor to racism. As an Asian who lived in North America for a while, I had to put up with my fair share in my own country. You see it on this board all the time. Some derogatory remark, that seems to slide by without the slightest protest, until someone from that country/race has to jump in to protest...
Each of us have, and are entitled to, our own opinion. We share them (our opinion) on this board as such is what this forum facilitates. Some of us are able to rise above stereotyping others, in the same way as some of us defy cultural stereotyping, but the fact remains that the majority of us are intrinsically 'rascist' to one extent or another - whether we hail from a 'melting pot' country of different races and cultures (some N. American nations) or a fairly homogenous country (some E. Asian nations). The majority of us, to one extent or another, form some sort of opinion of someone or some group of people based on a certain amount of media 'programming', pre-conceived ideas and stereotypes, etc. It's human nature, accept it and move on.
Even your asking for someone's race and home country is presumably so that you can form some sort of judgement on that person's viewpoint based on his racial background / country of abode.
Ironic? Pot calling the kettle black? You name it.
Old Thai Hand
04-15-08, 05:36
I have on occassion read this thread as it really intrigues me how you guys can go on and on about this single subject.
Now, I'm not flaming anybody and I definitely am not in any position to judge the relative value of this topic in a forum dedicated to paid sex (and actually... also other topics equally vociferously debated on the Thailand forum for that matter!!). You've debated since 1-1-07, over 19 pages and it still goes on!
I am just really intrigued and curious to know what each contributor here hopes to put accross to the general reader. And if you guys really think that racism in thailand - whether it exists or not or even the "degree" of racism here - actually matters in general context of mongering?
Fact is, I notice that the Thai forum DOES seem to have such a multitude of topics covered - all for a country that is not any larger than one province in China!
Please, like I said, am not flaming anybody!!
Peace peace Peace to all of guys there!
SEAJ
You make a good point. But, this board is not just about mongering. There are a signficiant number of people on here who either live here or travel here frequently who are interested in other things besides the latest increase in S/T rates of Nana parking lot girls.
Perhaps the majority of the readers are not interested in this. So, simply don't read it. I personally don't care about the type of guys who come here for their little 2-week sex tour. They have zero understanding of the country and the culture and probably are happy in their ignorance.
But, the rest of us, however a minority we actually are, still are interested in various topics about this country.
SE Asia Joe
04-15-08, 06:00
You make a good point. But, this board is not just about mongering. There are a signficiant number of people on here who either live here or travel here frequently who are interested in other things besides the latest increase in S/T rates of Nana parking lot girls.
Perhaps the majority of the readers are not interested in this. So, simply don't read it. I personally don't care about the type of guys who come here for their little 2-week sex tour. They have zero understanding of the country and the culture and probably are happy in their ignorance.
But, the rest of us, however a minority we actually are, still are interested in various topics about this country.
Actually, some of you guyses postings are quite interesting and make for good reading when I get bored of staring at stock prices!
Your point about the "longer staying" guests in Thailand is very valid - but aren't there other forums that would be more appropriate to be having such a relatively hi-fallutin' discourse.... on racism. I mean, you're actually dicusssing racism amongst..... MONGERS!
Racism exists everywhere and its not only racism per se but also plain old prejudice/bigotry not limited only to race. It also applies to other factors i.e socio/economic/religious matters and takes on different patina and approach in each particular society. To me and only IMHO, the racism you've all been discussing is comparatively "kindergarten" in nature compared to other societies/places.... although of course more out in the open compared to places like the U.S. where its just rampant but necessarily suppressed for "political correctness."
Anyway, appreciate your reply and hope that others here would also do likewise as I am truly intrigued. THANX
SEAJ
AsiaTraveler2
04-15-08, 07:20
So then, from your first quote above, someone who calls attention to or provides examples of racism is practicing racism himself? If everyone believed that people with African blood would still be slaves in the Americas.
You've pointed out that you don't truly recognize racism until you're part of the minority that's being discriminated against. And that you've suffered this sort of treatment at the hands of North Americans. Are you of East Asian ancestry? If so, then by your own arguments you're not really qualified to judge whether Thais are racist when it comes to Indians, whites and blacks.
It sounds like you think you should be able to protest racism when it affects you, but the rest of us shouldn't be allowed the same privilege.
Tiny,
You missed my point. My point is simply that racism exists everywhere. Everyone is affected at some point in their lives by it. All races have racists. But not everyone is a racist. I am simply pointing out that it is NOT UNIQUE TO THAI'S! And it is not all Thai's that practice it, anymore than any other race.
You are right. I am not qualified to judge whether some Thai's have racist feelings against blacks, whites, or Indians. I can say for sure, no one can say all or even a majority of Thai's are racists. Why? Because I am 100% certain that no one has personally met every Thai.
Peace,
AT2
AsiaTraveler2
04-15-08, 07:32
<cut>
I am assuming AT2 that you don't live here, but are merely a frequent visitor. I'm sorry. But, if that's true, you are hardly in a position to rebut my arguments. Unless you have in-depth, daily experience of dealing with Thais and can come up with a convincing argument based on that experience that refutes my assertion that Thais are both racist and xenophobic, then your opinions are not valid.<cut>
LOL! OTH. Believe it or not, I do enjoy your posts. Hey, I'm sure that the Thai's that I have worked with or dated are not true Thai's, because they no longer live in Thailand. By some miracle, getting on a plane completely clears all the brainwashing they have had over their first 20 to 40 years of existence. The fact that they have worked, played golf, shared beers with a group of friends and co-workers who are caucasian, asian, polynesian, black, etc. were just figments of my imagination. No prejudiced actions to be seen, were simply my blind eye turning away from the truth. Inter-racial dating of all races and colors, again, just a dream.
Please OTH. Come up with something better than the "you have not lived here, so you wouldn't know" argument. I don't need to live in a desert to know that it can be brutally hot during the day. We have these things called books, the internet and yes, even friends who have lived in these places who can communicate their experiences. We can jump on a plane and experience each culture first hand. By the way, I have lived in the U.S. and Japan, so I guess that means I am qualified to say that there are absolutely no racists in either of those countries. Hmmmmm. Makes sense to me.
Anyway, actions speak louder than words. You are still in Thailand, so if it was really as bad as you say, WTF are still doing there? LOL! ;)
Peace,
AT2
AsiaTraveler2
04-15-08, 07:39
I have on occassion read this thread as it really intrigues me how you guys can go on and on about this single subject.
Now, I'm not flaming anybody and I definitely am not in any position to judge the relative value of this topic in a forum dedicated to paid sex (and actually... also other topics equally vociferously debated on the Thailand forum for that matter!!). You've debated since 1-1-07, over 19 pages and it still goes on!
I am just really intrigued and curious to know what each contributor here hopes to put accross to the general reader. And if you guys really think that racism in thailand - whether it exists or not or even the "degree" of racism here - actually matters in general context of mongering?
Fact is, I notice that the Thai forum DOES seem to have such a multitude of topics covered - all for a country that is not any larger than one province in China!
Please, like I said, am not flaming anybody!!
Peace peace Peace to all of guys there!
SEAJ
SEAJ,
Not trying to accomplish anything. This debate is just that .. a debate. This thread will not change anyone's minds anymore than talking about prices will stop inflation. Glad you enjoyed the show! LOL!
AT2
AsiaTraveler2
04-15-08, 07:49
Each of us have, and are entitled to, our own opinion. We share them (our opinion) on this board as such is what this forum facilitates. Some of us are able to rise above stereotyping others, in the same way as some of us defy cultural stereotyping, but the fact remains that the majority of us are intrinsically 'rascist' to one extent or another - whether we hail from a 'melting pot' country of different races and cultures (some N. American nations) or a fairly homogenous country (some E. Asian nations). The majority of us, to one extent or another, form some sort of opinion of someone or some group of people based on a certain amount of media 'programming', pre-conceived ideas and stereotypes, etc. It's human nature, accept it and move on.
Even your asking for someone's race and home country is presumably so that you can form some sort of judgement on that person's viewpoint based on his racial background / country of abode.
Ironic? Pot calling the kettle black? You name it.
Well said. My point exactly, by the way. I also agree that everyone has a right to their opinion. I would rather know up front, how a person thinks, so the internet provides the perfect vehicle for the exposure of these types of thoughts. My question of race and country of origin was simply to point out that racism exists everywhere. If you want throw blanket judgements on an entire country/race, have the balls to point out your source of perfection is all I ask.
This discussion has certainly reached the point where my thoughts are heading back to the sex related threads.
Peace,
AT2
... I can say for sure, no one can say all or even a majority of Thai's are racists. Why? Because I am 100% certain that no one has personally met every Thai...
I'd sure love to live in your world... LOL ;)
The majority, if not ALL my countrymen are racist. It's interwoven into our very cultural fabric, perhaps even intrinsically related, historically, to our very being. And no, I have not personally met every one of my fellow countrymen, nor do I care to or need to. Does that make me any more credible about my fellow countrymen than a long-term farang resident in Thailand about the Thais?
Oh wait, my Thai 'gig' is calling. Maybe I should ask her about her fellow countrymen...
AsiaTraveler2
04-15-08, 07:58
I'd sure love to live in your world... LOL ;)
The majority, if not ALL my countrymen are racist. It's interwoven into our very cultural fabric, perhaps even intrinsically related, historically, to our very being. And no, I have not personally met every one of my fellow countrymen, nor do I care to or need to. Does that make me any more credible about my fellow countrymen than a long-term farang resident in Thailand about the Thais?
Oh wait, my Thai 'gig' is calling. Maybe I should ask her about her fellow countrymen...
Raverboy,
Who needs credibility. And yes, I do enjoy my world. The world is what you make of it, they say. Travel, Golf, Sex, Beers, Beaches, Bitches and incredibly dumbass time consuming debates that lead no where. I have everything that I could ask for! ;)
Don't take my rants too seriously. Every now and then, it's healthy to blow off a bit of steam. All of the above are great ways to do it.
AT2
NicFrenchy
04-15-08, 08:17
Your point about the "longer staying" guests in Thailand is very valid - but aren't there other forums that would be more appropriate to be having such a relatively hi-fallutin' discourse.... on racism. I mean, you're actually dicusssing racism amongst..... MONGERS!
I respectfully disagree with that.
Yes, the primary role/function of this forum is to inform/share mongering experiences, one only needs to read the Forum's title to figure that out.
Having said that, for a lot of people here, the forum is a little more than that.
I am a regular visitor/poster in the Thailand forum and over time, I have had the pleasure of meeting a few members of ISG, conversing with some others via Threads so I guess what I am trying to say is that I feel a part of a community, not just some names talking about pussies and tits.
SE Asia Joe
04-15-08, 08:52
I respectfully disagree with that.
Yes, the primary role/function of this forum is to inform/share mongering experiences, one only needs to read the Forum's title to figure that out.
Having said that, for a lot of people here, the forum is a little more than that.
I am a regular visitor/poster in the Thailand forum and over time, I have had the pleasure of meeting a few members of ISG, conversing with some others via Threads so I guess what I am trying to say is that I feel a part of a community, not just some names talking about pussies and tits.
Hey dere Dude: (that's how one old guy greets another old guy I guess!!)
OK - I think I understand what you're saying - but it still goes back to the fact that you are having a serious discourse on a quite serious topic - Racism - in a forum dedicated to ..... mongering!
And even if you have met quite a few guys thru this forum (as have I BTW!) and now feel a part of a community....well dude - its still a community of ....mongers!
OK OK - you can say to me "[CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off, if you don't like it, you don't hafta read it." Yes, of course that is true - but actually I do periodically read it and do find it sometimes interesting - especially when OTH hammers it in - great stuff!! But am just really curious/intrigued at why is it that you guys find it appropriate to discuss such a topic.....here!
Surely there are other more 'suited' forums to discuss racism? And for it to "matter more" if indeed what you guys are trying to do is to bring about some change in Thailand in regards to Racism or even just to let other farangs beware/understand/know what it is they are walking into in Thailand when they come here to live, to work, to explore opportunities etc etc - areas where understanding this Racism DOES play a pivotal role in degrees of success etc.
Racism and whoring - nahhhh - cain't make the connection. Just IMHO of course.
Peace and out
SEAJ
Ralph Kramden
04-15-08, 15:07
here is a perfect example of blatant, uninformed, unsophisticated, xenophobic and warped racism against foreigners.
historical background: in 1995 three us marines abducted and gang raped a 12 year old school girl in okinawa. they got caught and received the punishment they deserved.
between 1995 and 2008 hundreds if not thousands of [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) by japanese on japanese were committed. no others were committed by a us serviceman during this time.
a couple of months ago a us marine was accused of [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) a 16 year old school girl in okinawa. the japanese press immediately tried and convicted the accused. while politicians of all stripes (including the prime minister) screamed "for a stop to this kind of behavior once and for all".
the charges were dropped a couple of weeks later.
to this day, the average japanese can't tell you the real facts of the case if asked. here they are:
the 16 year willingly got into the marine's car. kidnapping was never a part of the charges. the accused took the girl to his house where nothing much happened. the girl asked to be taken home, which the accused did. then he did a stupid thing by stopping near a park, held the girl down and kissed her. she got loose, ran away and made the accusation.
the charges were dropped for lack of physical evidence because there was never any [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123). after the prosecutors dropped the case they made it sound like the girl was so distraught she could not possibly carry on with the case. nothing was ever said about lack of evidence. it was later revealed that the girl hung out in bars frequented by us servicemen, which would explain how the accused was known to the girl, and why she willingly got into his car.
what i just described was reported in the english language media. you can imaging how much more hysterical the japanese media reacted, especially the powerful right-wing media outlets.
is is exactly this type of incident that brainwashes the way people feel about others. and racism inducing incidents like this commonly occur on a daily basis in japan, but in a much more subtle way.
would the same event play out much the same way in thailand? i would say there is a very good chance it probably would.
and are the thai people, like the japanese, exposed to the institutional training of racism against foreigners by the media and society in general? again, i would say the answer is probably yes.
Old Thai Hand
04-15-08, 15:55
LOL! OTH. Believe it or not, I do enjoy your posts. Hey, I'm sure that the Thai's that I have worked with or dated are not true Thai's, because they no longer live in Thailand.AT2
I'd say that's probably at least partially true, as I have known Thais who have moved to the States and have been completely enlightened by the exposure to western culture.
Please OTH. Come up with something better than the "you have not lived here, so you wouldn't know" argument.
Why? It's a very valid argument. Unless you've lived and worked with Thais in Thailand for at least a few years, you can never understand what I'm talking about.
But, there's no point in continuing this, unless I write an extremely long discourse full of empiral proof to back up my POV. I doubt even if faced with a ton of damning evidence, you'd change your mind. I also doubt if anyone really wants to read it.
Anyway, actions speak louder than words. You are still in Thailand, so if it was really as bad as you say, WTF are still doing there? LOL! ;)AT2
In fact, I'm planning on leaving. But, having re-located from here once before, I want to make sure I'm doing it the right way and for the right reasons. At my age, it's not that easy.
Traveler1234
04-15-08, 15:58
In fact, I'm planning on leaving.
Again? ;)
Old Thai Hand
04-15-08, 16:09
Again? ;)
As I said, I already left and then came back. So, yes. again. My current job has driven me to a point of hating just about everything here because of the way I've been treated. And, if I can manage to leave, I'll only come back when I don't have to work with Thais, anymore and can just live a fantasy life like Daddy07 is currently doing in Pattaya - i.e. retirement.
But, at 56, it's not going to be easy to go back home and try to re-establish myself after 12 years away. So, perhaps I'm just dreaming, and I'll be stuck here forever.
AsiaTraveler2
04-15-08, 16:55
here is a perfect example of blatant, uninformed, unsophisticated, xenophobic and warped racism against foreigners.
historical background: in 1995 three us marines abducted and gang raped a 12 year old school girl in okinawa. they got caught and received the punishment they deserved.
between 1995 and 2008 hundreds if not thousands of [CodeWord124] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124) by japanese on japanese were committed. no others were committed by a us serviceman during this time.
a couple of months ago a us marine was accused of [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) a 16 year old school girl in okinawa. the japanese press immediately tried and convicted the accused. while politicians of all stripes (including the prime minister) screamed "for a stop to this kind of behavior once and for all".
ralph,
lol! your example for "all japanese are racists" is political grandstanding? similar issues pop up all over the world everyday. i'm sorry you have issues with thai's and the japanese, possibly even hatred. i would hope you could rise above it and treat each person as an individual. i think you glossed over the fact the girls were 12 and 16, just a little too easily, but hey .. worth it to make your point hmmm. i'm assuming you don't have any thai or japanese friends. i mean, how could you, if you believe they are racists.
i wish you well .. this discussion will never go anywhere, since people will believe what they want to believe. it has hammered home the point that the world has not made any progress in a 100 years.
peace,
at2
You know what. At the end of the day, I don't care who did or did not like me. I paid them, fucked them and had a good night sleep at a hotel which also liked my money.
And for those punters who get rattled by the racism, you always have the option to leave.
Old Thai Hand
04-15-08, 17:21
You know what. At the end of the day, I don't care who did or did not like me. I paid them, fucked them and had a good night sleep at a hotel which also liked my money.
And for those punters who get rattled by the racism, you always have the option to leave.
You're 100% correct. You've got to the heart of the matter for the vast majority of the readers here. Everything else, including much of what I have written is only of interest to a comparatively small group.
The discussion has meandered back to the racism issue, as it always does. The catalyst for it, you'll remember was my correcting someone's ignorance of the Indian influence on Thai culture. That was interesting to some. But, the racism issue isn't all that important to most.
Perhaps it's time to retire this thread.
Actually, that would be more interesting than pussy to me. (I guess I'm getting old.)
But, there's no point in continuing this, unless I write an extremely long discourse full of empiral proof to back up my POV. I also doubt if anyone really wants to read it.
Ralph Kramden
04-16-08, 02:05
AT2
You missed my point entirely and that of OTH.
Racist attitudinal training is institutionalized in Japan and Thailand through the media and society at large, so many people cannot help but have racist feelings against foreigners.
I never said all Japanese and Thais are racist against foreigners. That is nonsense.
You apparently live in your own ivory tower and have never lived in a foreign country, so as a result, have never experienced racism against foreigners.
Terry Terrier
04-16-08, 02:36
Wasn't this thread created by Jackson to take off-topic discussions out of the on-topic threads, same same the ones Jackson created for Domino vs {whoever he happened to be trying to bully in that particular week}?
Btw, I agree with AT2: Lives and people (anywhere in the world) are never as simple and easy to categorise as some would have us believe.
Old Thai Hand
04-16-08, 03:11
Actually, that would be more interesting than pussy to me. (I guess I'm getting old.)
You're probably the only one. But, just for fun, I'll give you at least one rather amusing, albeit still annoying little anecdote that is very typical of the kind of institutionalized attitudes to which I have been referring.
There has been a recent infestation of various bugs, including roaches on several Thai Railway trains. The Minister of the Interior immediately came out and blamed it on "Farang travelers" because, as he said, "everyone knows they have poor hygiene and probably brought the bugs with them from a foreign country".
When the truth came out, it was revealed that the source of the infestation was actually the old Thai ladies with their raw meat and various other foodstuffs that cook for passengers on many of the 3rd class cars.
But, the story dies hard and many Thais are still only aware of and believe the pronouncement from the politician.
Ralph Kramden
04-16-08, 05:13
This discussion has been useful in my opinion because it informs those who are considering visiting or living in Thailand, and for comparison sake, Japan.
Racism against foreigners does exist in Thailand. But it will probably not adversely effect your mongering experience except in the case of places off limits to foreigners, foreign surcharges, or in the case that you are dark-skinned. However, I would think twice about living and working in Thailand. Living as a retiree is a different situation. About this matter, I respect the comments of OTH and others who report that overt racism exists in many places and becomes bothersome to deal with on a daily basis. This relevant information that was not known to me previously would probably cause me to not live and work in Thailand.
For comparison sake, racism against foreigners in Japan is also alive and well. It will adversely effect your mongering pleasure especially compared to Thailand. But from my standpoint of living and working in Japan for almost 10 years, I can say that racism will not so seriously effect you so much in the workplace and society at large. It exists, but is more subtle than in Thailand.
I have found great job satisfaction in two different fields and enjoy living in Japan. Mongering is readily available, but not on the grand scale as Thailand, which is why I enjoy visiting there.
Naked Gunz
04-16-08, 06:01
This discussion has been useful in my opinion because it informs those who are considering visiting or living in Thailand, and for comparison sake, Japan.
Racism against foreigners does exist in Thailand. But it will probably not adversely effect your mongering experience except in the case of places off limits to foreigners, foreign surcharges, or in the case that you are dark-skinned. However, I would think twice about living and working in Thailand. Living as a retiree is a different situation. About this matter, I respect the comments of OTH and others who report that overt racism exists in many places and becomes bothersome to deal with on a daily basis. This relevant information that was not known to me previously would probably cause me to not live and work in Thailand.
For comparison sake, racism against foreigners in Japan is also alive and well. It will adversely effect your mongering pleasure especially compared to Thailand. But from my standpoint of living and working in Japan for almost 10 years, I can say that racism will not so seriously effect you so much in the workplace and society at large. It exists, but is more subtle than in Thailand.
I have found great job satisfaction in two different fields and enjoy living in Japan. Mongering is readily available, but not on the grand scale as Thailand, which is why I enjoy visiting there.
I AM DARK!
Respectfully..as a bro my dick gets mucho satisfaction in all the world, except in my own home, the USA. And I mean by my own race--the infamous black woman! Now thats hard. USA women and esp my sistas expect your check, respect and properly place of lips near the ass m*therfucker!
Since I'm a 40 something man I'm pushed towards fat 40 something chicks that Oprah and Monique have convinced that I should love them for being them! Your wasting your time with this 3rd world not being treated right by a ho?? I still don't get this section!
All I know is when I travel, I get fucked liked I'm loved for the price of a tank of gas. Mr. Jackson pls remove this section because I'm tired of seeing these ISG women complain about how they are treated!
Old Thai Hand
04-16-08, 12:03
I AM DARK!
Respectfully..as a bro my dick gets mucho satisfaction in all the world, except in my own home, the USA. And I mean by my own race--the infamous black woman! Now thats hard. USA women and esp my sistas expect your check, respect and properly place of lips near the ass m*therfucker!
Since I'm a 40 something man I'm pushed towards fat 40 something chicks that Oprah and Monique have convinced that I should love them for being them! Your wasting your time with this 3rd world not being treated right by a ho?? I still don't get this section!
All I know is when I travel, I get fucked liked I'm loved for the price of a tank of gas. Mr. Jackson pls remove this section because I'm tired of seeing these ISG women complain about how they are treated!Naked. I'll put this to you bluntly. If you lived and worked somewhere and you were called a "Nigger" on a daily basis, how would you feel?
With respect. An ISG woman complainer
Ralph Kramden
04-16-08, 14:59
NG,
I am sorry if my over generalization offended you. It was based on recent comments made by our Indian brethren that were fresh on my mind, who complained of shoddy service.
Your posting jogged my memory that several African-American mongers have reported that they were treated like royalty in many cases in Thailand. So if you haven't partaken in the Thai mongering scene, then I have one more comment to make to you.
CUM ON DOWN!
I clicked on "Find more reports by Naked Gunz", and about 25% of your recent posts are in this thread. So if you don't like it why don't you quit reading it?
Mr. Jackson pls remove this section because I'm tired of seeing these ISG women complain about how they are treated!
Traveler1234
04-16-08, 17:13
I'll be stuck here forever.
Unfortunately I think you're right :(
NicFrenchy
04-17-08, 01:18
I clicked on "Find more reports by Naked Gunz", and about 25% of your recent posts are in this thread. So if you don't like it why don't you quit reading it?
Hahahahaha.... good point.
In any case, no one forces NG to open the thread so asking for it to be deleted is pointless.
I AM DARK!
Respectfully..as a bro my dick gets mucho satisfaction in all the world, except in my own home, the USA. And I mean by my own race--the infamous black woman! Now thats hard. USA women and esp my sistas expect your check, respect and properly place of lips near the ass m*therfucker!
Since I'm a 40 something man I'm pushed towards fat 40 something chicks that Oprah and Monique have convinced that I should love them for being them! Your wasting your time with this 3rd world not being treated right by a ho?? I still don't get this section!
All I know is when I travel, I get fucked liked I'm loved for the price of a tank of gas. Mr. Jackson pls remove this section because I'm tired of seeing these ISG women complain about how they are treated!
I am Dark too,
Guys I think this thread has been beaten too death on racism against farangs. As I type this, I am in a Internet cafe in Saphan Khwai and I am getting googled by a mature Thai woman!:D
Wish I could stay longer!
I have to admit, though, when I'm nai muangthai I hear the term "farang dum" bantied about quite a bit (yes, it's in bars mostly). It seems that "farang" is "farang" even if they modify the term with "dum" (BTW it's not about intelligence - the word means "black" in Thai - "black person of european/american extraction" for want of a better term - and YES they DO distinguish between AFRICANS and "others") So from my knothole, the only thing different in FARANG is the skin color. Now, when it comes to Indians, I have heard a Thai "joke" about "kill the Indian first" - so from that standpoint it isn't about SKIN COLOR. An American (Canajan, Brits too) person of color is treated as a "farang".
I'm not sure that if the treatment is "different" depending on skin color (like it is when dealing with "persons of Asian descent"
I guess racism is something that goes with the territory and is pervasive among the PEOPLE USED TO THAT FRAME OF MIND (and no matter what we "farang" or "farang dum" DO, we won't affect the Thai PSYCHE - so we might as well just put up with it)
I think it would make more sense to talk about XENOPHOBIA than "racism" because THAT is more of an issue in Thailand than "race".
Old Thai Hand
04-18-08, 00:55
I think it would make more sense to talk about XENOPHOBIA than "racism" because THAT is more of an issue in Thailand than "race".
I've been using both to distinguish the difference. But, the difference between xenophobia (against foreigners) and racism (Thai against Thai, Foreigner against Thai) seems to be lost on most posters here.
I do agree with MeatMan that the issue has been beaten to death. There is absolutely no question that the Thais are xenophobic and simply don't like a whole variety of different people (Farang, Kaek, Jek...you name it) for a variety of different reasons. And, they don't like each other a lot of the time, either. There's nothing more to be said, really.
Case closed.
SE Asia Joe
04-18-08, 09:04
Case closed.
Great!!! Case closed!!
Since its the racism thread - howzabout now discussing which kind of Thai gal/race makes the best WG, lover, friend (for short term stayers), wife, freebie, maid, friend, (for long term stayers).
Whaddya think? Appropriate for this thread?
Then I can watch/read on the sidelines again and enjoy you guys battling it out!!
Most of you guys are actually quite good debaters!!
SEAJ
ps. Note.... I wrote "most!"
On my recent trip to BKK, I met with 3 friends from California as I was returning from Singapore. We spent 5 days in BKK and 2 in Pattaya.
I am a Californian, 2 of my friends are Indians, and the last is a Pakistani guy. All of us live in Northern California. The Pakistani guy is a moslem, and the two Indian guys are hindus, and all of them have dark complexion.
During my mongering trips with these three friends, I must admit that I got more attention than the others, even though, I am 5'8", about 30 lbs overweight, and appeared older than the other three. But, I am clean shaven, blond, and green-eyed.
The Pakistani guy does not have any facial hair, tall, and with features that American girls love. He was rejected by 2 girls during our outings in BKK, just because he was a moslem! They asked him whether he is a moslem! Do Thai girls hate moslems or what?
One of the Indian guys had a beard, and he was rejected by girls at least 4 or 5 times at the Nana Plaza. One of the bars would not even let him in, but reluctantly did so after I spoke with the bouncer, as we were a team.
The other Indian guy was short, clean shaven, had a lighter complexion than the other two, better dressed, and he had no problems getting women!
All of us went out dancing, and only the Indian guy with the beard got rejected. It is interesting to note that most of the girls at the disco were not working girls! All of my friends appeared clean, with excellent personal hygene, and all dressed up for the event.
So the moral of the story seems to be that if you are clean, well dressed, and treat the girls nice, Thai girls will let you fuck them irrespective of your color, or race, so long as you have $$ to part with.
MD
Old Thai Hand
04-19-08, 08:43
So the moral of the story seems to be that if you are clean, well dressed, and treat the girls nice, Thai girls will let you fuck them irrespective of your color, or race, so long as you have $$ to part with.MD
Really? ALL Thai girls...every, last one of them...will let you fuck them for $$? Amazing! I didn't know that.
Really? ALL Thai girls...every, last one of them...will let you fuck them for $$? Amazing! I didn't know that.
Don't get so quickly upset, OTH! Muff did not say "ALL"... Whether you like it or not, he is right in saying that if you are presenting yourself cleanly and have money, SOME thai girls will let you f.....them. It is insulting to everyone's intelligence to suggest that one thinks that ALL girls are F.....ble for money. In case you had forgotten, this is a mongering forum, and comments apply to mongering.....and therefore girls within this world.
Lol!
M P Lurker
04-19-08, 11:53
Really? ALL Thai girls...every, last one of them...will let you fuck them for $$? Amazing! I didn't know that.
Yes as OTH says, many Thai girls have standards.
Plenty of Thai girls here in Australia get regular offers from rich guys to become their 2nd wives. These guys get surprised when the girls knock them back very promptly no matter how rich the guy is and how well looked after they might be.
Many Thais are culturally trained that sex for money is not an acceptable thing. But selection of a man includes having reasonable money as part of the selection criteria. They do not want to have to support their partner as well as other members of the family.
LittleTruths
04-19-08, 12:19
Hi All,
In theme of Thai tastes when it comes to partners, I find it safe to say that any fool would know that Thais
-both males and females-
Definately have a preference for light-complexioned partners.
Dark skin seems to be seen as somewhat of a non-desirable characteristic in a potential partner, within Thai society.
Bless
Old Thai Hand
04-19-08, 13:21
Don't get so quickly upset, OTH! Muff did not say "ALL"... Whether you like it or not, he is right in saying that if you are presenting yourself cleanly and have money, SOME thai girls will let you f.....them. It is insulting to everyone's intelligence to suggest that one thinks that ALL girls are F.....ble for money. In case you had forgotten, this is a mongering forum, and comments apply to mongering.....and therefore girls within this world.
Lol!
First of all, he implied 'all Thai women' with his comment. It is an established fact, based on ignorance and misinformation that not a small number of morons visit this country thinking ALL Thai women are fair game.
As well, this forum has gone far beyond just being about mongering. There are plenty of guys on the Thai board, alone who regularly post about non-P4P and issues to do with meeting regular Thai women. Don't be so narrow-minded.
...The Pakistani guy does not have any facial hair, tall, and with features that American girls love. He was rejected by 2 girls during our outings in BKK, just because he was a moslem! They asked him whether he is a moslem! Do Thai girls hate moslems or what?
One of the Indian guys had a beard, and he was rejected by girls at least 4 or 5 times at the Nana Plaza. One of the bars would not even let him in, but reluctantly did so after I spoke with the bouncer, as we were a team.
...
All of us went out dancing, and only the Indian guy with the beard got rejected...
So the moral of the story seems to be that if you are clean, well dressed, and treat the girls nice, Thai girls will let you fuck them irrespective of your color, or race, so long as you have $$ to part with...
The moral of your story as stated by you is clearly not demonstrated by the examples you cite.
NicFrenchy
04-20-08, 06:13
It is an established fact, based on ignorance and misinformation that not a small number of morons visit this country thinking ALL Thai women are fair game.
Absolutely!! 2 of my female Staff say they HATE (their words, not mine) Farangs because they get offered money many times for sex. They are young and very attractive. One girl told me that one german guy even offered her 5,000 for sex while she was at Siam Paragon Shopping! She felt highly insulted that the man would mistake her for a prostitute.
On my recent trip to BKK, I met with 3 friends from California as I was returning from Singapore. We spent 5 days in BKK and 2 in Pattaya.
I am a Californian, 2 of my friends are Indians, and the last is a Pakistani guy. All of us live in Northern California. The Pakistani guy is a moslem, and the two Indian guys are hindus, and all of them have dark complexion.
During my mongering trips with these three friends, I must admit that I got more attention than the others, even though, I am 5'8", about 30 lbs overweight, and appeared older than the other three. But, I am clean shaven, blond, and green-eyed.
The Pakistani guy does not have any facial hair, tall, and with features that American girls love. He was rejected by 2 girls during our outings in BKK, just because he was a moslem! They asked him whether he is a moslem! Do Thai girls hate moslems or what?
One of the Indian guys had a beard, and he was rejected by girls at least 4 or 5 times at the Nana Plaza. One of the bars would not even let him in, but reluctantly did so after I spoke with the bouncer, as we were a team.
The other Indian guy was short, clean shaven, had a lighter complexion than the other two, better dressed, and he had no problems getting women!
All of us went out dancing, and only the Indian guy with the beard got rejected. It is interesting to note that most of the girls at the disco were not working girls! All of my friends appeared clean, with excellent personal hygene, and all dressed up for the event.
So the moral of the story seems to be that if you are clean, well dressed, and treat the girls nice, Thai girls will let you fuck them irrespective of your color, or race, so long as you have $$ to part with.
MD
Guys kill me with all Thai/Filipino girls in their native country are *****s routine.
Old Thai Hand
04-20-08, 08:30
Guys kill me with all Thai/Filipino girls in their native country are *****s routine.
Yes. But, unfortunately with more and more ignorant idiots coming here and believing the hype fostered by Asian porn sites, not to mention a lot of crap written by certain types of monger on here and other sites, regular Thai women are routinely approached, and insulted with offers of money for sex.
I mentioned in a post awhile ago that one of the reasons I moved from my last place was because of its proximity to the bars on soi 22 which resulted in my GF being assaulted a number of times by low class Farang, too stupid to know how to behave properly.
Is it any wonder that a lot of Thais hate foreigners?
First of all, he implied 'all Thai women' with his comment. It is an established fact, based on ignorance and misinformation that not a small number of morons visit this country thinking ALL Thai women are fair game.
.
I fully agree with that! I also feel ashamed to see how sometimes miserable farangs behave. But I just thought you were a bit harsh on this guy.. never mind! I, as you and many others, I believe, do not think that all Thai women are for sale, and respect them. In fact I respect ALL women, *****s or not, Thai or not. That has worked well for me, I feel good, and probably the girls I have been with also...
And with regards to the topics discussed here, absolutely fine to talk about any issue, why not. peoiple are free rto read what they are interested in!
Peace
AsiaTraveler2
04-21-08, 00:12
Yes. But, unfortunately with more and more ignorant idiots coming here and believing the hype fostered by Asian porn sites, not to mention a lot of crap written by certain types of monger on here and other sites, regular Thai women are routinely approached, and insulted with offers of money for sex.
I mentioned in a post awhile ago that one of the reasons I moved from my last place was because of its proximity to the bars on soi 22 which resulted in my GF being assaulted a number of times by low class Farang, too stupid to know how to behave properly.
Is it any wonder that a lot of Thais hate foreigners?
That's just the tip of the iceberg. Some other things SOME foreigners do wrong .. they think money can buy everything, insult their hosts culture, their royalty or elected officials, their predominant religion, their food, their clothes, their air, their water, their countries infrastructure, label them and make blanket assumptions, step on toes and are blistfully ignorant as to why, think more money or a diploma makes them better, etc., etc., etc.
Maybe someone from your race/country at one time insulted or hurt their family or friends, was at war at one time with your country, had someone in their family in an internment/concentration camp, been mistreated in your country solely based on their race, etc. Life is complicated and there are a million reasons to dislike you without knowing you. Don't give them a reason to cement that belief. Just remember many people can be swayed based on how you behave with them. Be humble and be respectful.
I think it's best to remember, when visiting a country, you are just a visitor even if you are now living there. Their roots are dug deeper than yours. Don't go in with the arrogant notion that your way or countries way of doing things is better than theirs. Don't think for a moment, that they should somehow change things that they have done for decades/centuries, just because you don't like it. All you can do is be the best person you can be and if it's not working, go back to where you came from. You had a choice to visit their country and you have the choice to leave. If you chose that country to visit or live and then knock it at it's very core .. it's people, then who's the idiot or lesser man? Remember that some of the worst cases of racism and xenophobia have often occurred in your own backyard, so knocking another country sounds really hypocrytical.
I always enjoy my visits to Thailand and will continue to. One of the things I like about it, is that they have been able to retain much of what is Thailand. The culture, food, people, traditional dress, etc. It would be tragic if this is lost, due to a foreigner's belief that things must change for their own selfish reasons. When I have been wronged by a person, in Thailand or anywhere else, I don't think less of their race .. I think less of them as an individual.
I think there are many many foreigners who understand this. Those that don't are a very vocal minority, who continue to keep alive the notion of the "Ugly American" and you can insert any nationality in there. I know Ralph Kramden thinks that I live in an Ivory tower. On the contrary, I am very much ground in reality and yes I have lived abroad. I don't have blinders on.
Peace,
AT2
AsiaTraveler2
04-21-08, 00:27
this discussion has been useful in my opinion because it informs those who are considering visiting or living in thailand, and for comparison sake, japan.
racism against foreigners does exist in thailand. but it will probably not adversely effect your mongering experience except in the case of places off limits to foreigners, foreign surcharges, or in the case that you are dark-skinned. however, i would think twice about living and working in thailand. living as a retiree is a different situation. about this matter, i respect the comments of oth and others who report that overt racism exists in many places and becomes bothersome to deal with on a daily basis. this relevant information that was not known to me previously would probably cause me to not live and work in thailand.
for comparison sake, racism against foreigners in japan is also alive and well. it will adversely effect your mongering pleasure especially compared to thailand. but from my standpoint of living and working in japan for almost 10 years, i can say that racism will not so seriously effect you so much in the workplace and society at large. it exists, but is more subtle than in thailand.
i have found great job satisfaction in two different fields and enjoy living in japan. mongering is readily available, but not on the grand scale as thailand, which is why i enjoy visiting there.
ralph,
you of all people should know that racism has been "institutionalized" in the u.s. specifically and elsewhere too. any other explanation for how japanese baseball position players were not believed to be good enough to play in professional baseball until a few years ago? look at the major boardrooms or senior management positions in corporate america, or those of europe, or asia, etc. any chance things fall into place along the lines of race? yes, japan has some challenges for foreigners, and in p4p in particular (this is what this board is about). other countries have those same challenges. i think any foreigner or minority knows what they are and make their life choices knowing them. if not, they have no one else to blame but themselves.
have you exerienced trying to catch a cab in ny city if you are african-american? i have not, but my friend has, and i often need to step up to the curb first to speed up the process.
not trying to start a war here, but i think this thread is more about bashing and has not served as an avenue for constructive discussions. everyone needs to vent now and then, and if that's what this thread is about, then i guess it may be a healthy thing as long as that's all there is to it.
by the way, i do think japan's p4p scene rivals thailand, but much of it is just not available to most of us. i believe much of it is due to what terry terrier alludes to. there are problems with becoming a p4p mecca for foreigners just as becoming a gambling mecca has on it's citizens. you end up receiving a lot of "unwanteds" and a lot of collateral damage.
peace,
at2
Terry Terrier
04-21-08, 00:44
That's just the tip of the iceberg. Some other things foreigners do wrong .. they think money can buy everything, insult their hosts culture, their royalty or elected officials, their predominant religion, their food, their clothes, their air, their water, their countries infrastructure, label them and make blanket assumptions, step on toes and are blistfully ignorant as to why, etc., etc., etc.
Maybe someone from your race/country at one time insulted or hurt their family, was at war at one time with your country, had someone in their family in an internment/concentration camp, been mistreated in your country solely based on their race, etc. Life is complicated and there are a million reasons to dislike you without knowing you. Don't give them a reason to cement that belief. Just remember many people can be swayed based on how you behave with them. Be humble and be respectful.
I think it's best to remember, when visiting a country, you are just a visitor even if you are now living there. Their roots are dug deeper than yours. Don't go in with the arrogant notion that your way or countries way of doing things is better than theirs. Don't think for a moment, that they should somehow change things that they have done for decades/centuries, just because you don't like it. All you can do is be the best person you can be and if it's not working, go back to where you came from. Remember that some of the worst cases of racism and xenophobia have often occurred in your own backyard, so knocking another country sounds really hypocrytical.
I always enjoy my visits to Thailand and will continue to. One of the things I like about it, is that they have been able to retain much of what is Thailand. The culture, food, people, etc. It would be tragic if this is lost, due to a foreigner's belief that things must change for their own selfish reasons. When I have been wronged by a person, in Thailand or anywhere else, I don't think less of their race .. I think less of them as an individual.
I think there are many many foreigners who understand this. Those that don't are a very vocal minority, who continue to keep alive the notion of the "Ugly American" and you can insert any nationality in there. I know Ralph Kramden thinks that I live in an Ivory tower. On the contrary, I am very much ground in reality and yes I have lived abroad. I don't have blinders on.
Peace,
AT2
Plenty of good points, and I concur with them as far as you take them AT2. But countries get the tourists they deserve, and Thailand could sort out it's sextourism problems in a relative instant if it wanted to do so. Blaming the ignorant slobs who proposition GTG's is as daft as suggesting that a disease is caused by it's symptoms. Why did large-scale cheap charlie sextourism disappear in other SE Asian countries such as Korea and Japan? Like I've always said, cause and effect. The scumbags are only the effect. Thailand is now wealthy enough to move forward but it doesn't. It's a Thai problem, not a farang one.
NicFrenchy
04-21-08, 00:48
Some other things SOME foreigners do wrong .. they think money can buy everything,
so does the Thai Upper Class
AsiaTraveler2
04-21-08, 00:53
Plenty of good points, and I concur with them as far as you take them AT2. But countries get the tourists they deserve, and Thailand could sort out it's sextourism problems in a relative instant if it wanted to do so. Blaming the ignorant slobs who proposition GTG's is as daft as suggesting that a disease is caused by it's symptoms. Why did large-scale cheap charlie sextourism disappear in other SE Asian countries such as Korea and Japan? Like I've always said, cause and effect. The scumbags are only the effect. Thailand is now wealthy enough to move forward but it doesn't. It's a Thai problem, not a farang one.
Terry,
I understand what you are saying and you are a consistent voice of reason. Not trying to bash farang (I am just another foreigner in Thailand). It's not the Thai's who are grumbing on this thread, so I'm just trying to put things in perspective. Many problems in the world are self inflicted.
Peace,
AT2
AsiaTraveler2
04-21-08, 00:55
so does the Thai Upper Class
LOL! True, but isn't that how the world works in general?
Peace,
AT2
Old Thai Hand
04-21-08, 01:13
Of course the Thais (more correctly, the Thai-Chinese) are to blame for the sex industry.
But, I still don't think that justifies some moron going up to a girl who's minding here own business at MBK, or Parragon or on the BTS and offering her money for sex.
You wouldn't walk up to some girl on the London Tube, unsolicited and offer her 100 quid for sex. She'd probably knock your block off, not to mention call the cops and charge you with assault.
The point is that, Farang are brain-washed by media and garbage on the Internet into thinking that Thailand is one big brothel and all Thai women are *****s. Going up to one and harrassing her for sex is assault, pure and simple.
While definitive numbers are impossible to know. The official Thai government estimate is that there are 250,000 prostitutes, while the real estimates is something closer to 2 million. That's still only about 5-6% of the female population. So, the other 94-95% are NOT hookers. So, unless the girl is definitely looking for P4P (easy enough to spot), every visitor should ere on the side of caution and not assume that every TG thinks he's a "hansum man" and up for it.
Nothing could actually be further from the truth.
Old Thai Hand
04-21-08, 01:35
Further to this discussion...
My GF was in a 7/11 near Emporium one night, on her way home, when she was propositioned by some drunk Farang. Embarassed, she simply moved away from him. He pursued her and actually grabbed her, shoved money in her face, and angrily screamed at her something she didn't understand. She got away from him, ran outside and told a couple of motorcyle taxi guys what had happened. They came inside and grabbed him. My GF then called her brothers, both of whom are cops and who live closeby. The Farang was taken by police truck to ThongLor station where he was given a rather warm welcome Thai police style. He then had his visa revoked and was put on a plane the following day. I'm sure he still has quite "fond" memories of his sextour to Thailand.
Just because some of these guys see the ease with which they can get laid, and let it go to their heads doesn't mean that it's open season in Thailand. Visitors to any foreign country, but especially to a place like this should exercise caution and restraint, or they might get a nasty surprise.
Terry Terrier
04-21-08, 02:17
You wouldn't walk up to some girl on the London Tube, unsolicited and offer her 100 quid for sex. She'd probably knock your block off, not to mention call the cops and charge you with assault.
That's because 'you' (or Joe Scumbag) wouldn't travel half way across the world to London expecting to be able to fuck women left right and centre on the cheap. Does Joe still travel to Korea and harass the local good girls?
Do your bit and teach your hiso students to teach their parents to include Greater Thailand in the huge amount of money that is awash in the country. Well-paid jobs will be much more appealing than shagging Joe (just like it happened in Korea). Joe will go somewhere else, and problem solved.
But I expect you'll still be bitching about the 'symptoms' this time next year, while Thailand INC will still be behaving like a banana republic.
The point is that, Farang are brain-washed by media and garbage on the Internet into thinking that Thailand is one big brothel and all Thai women are *****s.
Nope. Farang simply know that there are huge numbers of prostitutes available in Thailand:
While definitive numbers are impossible to know. The official Thai government estimate is that there are 250,000 prostitutes, while the real estimates is something closer to 2 million.
If Thailand wants to reduce it's prostitution and sextourism problems, it has to give it's poor attractive alternatives.
If I hear expats bitching about 'symptoms' one more time on ISG, I think I'll need a sick bag.
NicFrenchy
04-21-08, 02:55
But, I still don't think that justifies some moron going up to a girl who's minding here own business at MBK, or Parragon or on the BTS and offering her money for sex.
OTH,
Do you honestly think it will stop there?
Can't you see a day coming when, a Farang will take his dick out in the BTS and offer a pink 500 note to the brave Female who will give him a BBBJCIM right there and then? In this sick fucking century? LOL I think it is bound to happen!
... the farang was taken by police truck to thonglor station where he was given a rather warm welcome thai police style...
he was lucky he wasnt given a very warm welcome 'thai police style', or rather, he was lucky he made it out of there alive!
i am not a fear mongerer, but i would caution anyone from messing with the thais. i have heard from local sources that one could contract a hired killer for little more than the price of a lt and a photo. there are enough willing yaba addicts out there desperate to score their next hit.
and don't even get me started on the hokey-pokey thai black magic stuff. i am mostly a cynic on this but there are enough people, movies and folklore/literature out there to sustain their belief in it. when was the last time you passed an altar adorned with figurines of a young boy? or the number of thais you see wearing charms around their neck? or the last time you got in a cab and saw 'gao-yord' hand drawn in chalk on the roof upholstery (right above the dashboard)?
spells or curses cast by jilted lovers will either have you loving them for life (!), vomiting razor blades or having a litter of baby reptiles chewing their way out from under your live skin. urban myths? you decide.
as for me, i believe in karma - what goes around comes around.
Terry Terrier
04-21-08, 04:12
i have heard from local sources that one could contract a hired killer for little more than the price of a lt and a photo. there are enough willing yaba addicts out there desperate to score their next hit.
2000bt aparently.
and don't even get me started on the hokey-pokey thai black magic stuff. i am mostly a cynic on this but there are enough people, movies and folklore/literature out there to sustain their belief in it. when was the last time you passed an altar adorned with figurines of a young boy? or the number of thais you see wearing charms around their neck? or the last time you got in a cab and saw 'gao-yord' hand drawn in chalk on the roof upholstery (right above the dashboard)?
spells or curses cast by jilted lovers will either have you loving them for life (!), vomiting razor blades or having a litter of baby reptiles chewing their way out from under your live skin. urban myths? you decide.
as for me, i believe in karma - what goes around comes around.
nah, you can't possibly believe that. you'd be on the next flight back to your farangland if you did. there's an apocalypse looming and oth's students are about to stroll fuckstreet to visit the sins of their fathers. any more threatening news?
...Nah, you can't possibly believe that. You'd be on the next flight back to your farangland if you did. There's an apocalypse looming and OTH's students are about to stroll Fuckstreet to visit the sins of their fathers. Any more threatening news?...
LOL Nope. Don't live in farangland either, btw. :)
AsiaTraveler2
04-21-08, 05:02
LOL Nope. Don't live in farangland either, btw. :)
Fuckstreet? Farangland? Can you guys provide some maps? ;)
AT2
NicFrenchy
04-21-08, 05:22
2000bt aparently.
That's for the snipers, you can get the clumsy knife fighters for much less than that ;)
Old Thai Hand
04-21-08, 11:50
If Thailand wants to reduce it's prostitution and sextourism problems, it has to give it's poor attractive alternatives..
Well, I do agree with that.
If I hear expats bitching about 'symptoms' one more time on ISG, I think I'll need a sick bag.
They will and I will again, because 2 wrongs don't make a right. So, get that paper bag ready.
Starchild2012
04-21-08, 22:09
he was lucky he wasnt given a very warm welcome 'thai police style', or rather, he was lucky he made it out of there alive!
i am not a fear mongerer, but i would caution anyone from messing with the thais. i have heard from local sources that one could contract a hired killer for little more than the price of a lt and a photo. there are enough willing yaba addicts out there desperate to score their next hit.
and don't even get me started on the hokey-pokey thai black magic stuff. i am mostly a cynic on this but there are enough people, movies and folklore/literature out there to sustain their belief in it. when was the last time you passed an altar adorned with figurines of a young boy? or the number of thais you see wearing charms around their neck? or the last time you got in a cab and saw 'gao-yord' hand drawn in chalk on the roof upholstery (right above the dashboard)?
spells or curses cast by jilted lovers will either have you loving them for life (!), vomiting razor blades or having a litter of baby reptiles chewing their way out from under your live skin. urban myths? you decide.
as for me, i believe in karma - what goes around comes around.
wow..thats really scary...i guess its universal or to an extent in asia...
bar girls here in india also....curse a lot..they curse left and right..even if you are good to them & if they like you...they will curse you with slightest discomfort and if you break up....then its curse plus magical spells etc etc...
spells and voodoo etc..works only on same species ...so a tourist is safe to an extent...cos....people born in the same area share same basic karma..so it is faster to cast a spell with minimum knowledge if you are of there own kind.
however, if she is really pissed..she may go to a higher tantric who specializes in black magics and get the work done..but the tantric will charge very high fees..cos ..its very hard to break the shield (sanskrit word kavach) of a person who is not of the same kind....plus the karmic crossover he has to do with the greater consequences he will have to face for going beyond the laws of nature when the bad karma he has done comes back to him with compound interest.
they also sometimes take the help of ghost and goblins to get the work done.
all higher tantric's and black magicians die a hellish death..the worst imaginable in the spiritual world and they go straight to 7 hell.
if the bar girls wants to cast a spell cheaply, she has to get hold of a blonde or a witch to do the work for her to get a western monger in her control :d
spirituality is all about personal experience and so is magic spells, due to its very nature, these magic spells cannot be demostrated in a lab or done on a mice or performed live to an audience plus with the issue of karma realted to a perticular area...the western scientists just cannot enter the zone and feel it and hence perhaps terms everything as baseless without any scientific evidence..which is also true ....hence as they say...science and faith can never become one :)
however, if one really wants digs deep and explore further..there are plenty of direction in any place in asia.
Mister Fusion
04-21-08, 23:10
For me this experience is a little disturbing because I'd like to take her to visit the US (my home) someday, and I know that our age, size, color and ethnic difference will definitely attract looks in some places. People in America sometimes are not as reserved as Asians when they notice something different.I'm a tall white guy, and I've been with my beautiful Filipino wife for nearly 20 years. We've travelled all over the world and have gotten our share of stares and hostility (mostly in the southern U. S.). You know what? Fuck 'them. Just make sure the car's properly maintained before driving through Klanville.
NicFrenchy
04-21-08, 23:21
They also sometimes take the help of ghost and goblins to get the work done.
Yeah right, how about zombies?
Keep thy religion and faith in that crap to thyself
My GF was in a 7/11 near Emporium one night, on her way home, when she was propositioned by some drunk Farang. Embarassed, she simply moved away from him. He pursued her and actually grabbed her, shoved money in her face, and angrily screamed at her something she didn't understand. She got away from him, ran outside and told a couple of motorcyle taxi guys what had happened. They came inside and grabbed him. My GF then called her brothers, both of whom are cops and who live closeby. The Farang was taken by police truck to ThongLor station where he was given a rather warm welcome Thai police style. He then had his visa revoked and was put on a plane the following day. I'm sure he still has quite "fond" memories of his sextour to Thailand.
What an awful overreaction! She had 'gotten away' from him and still thought it necessary to call in motorcycle taxi thugs and her cop brothers. Why?
Essentially a tourist will be beaten up just because he pestered someone a little.
(I always side with my brethren).
What an awful overreaction! She had 'gotten away' from him and still thought it necessary to call in motorcycle taxi thugs and her cop brothers. Why?
Essentially a tourist will be beaten up just because he pestered someone a little.
(I always side with my brethren).She moved away. He then followed and grabbed her. That's not assualt but battery. He got off easy. She was absloutely right to do what she did.
What an awful overreaction! She had 'gotten away' from him and still thought it necessary to call in motorcycle taxi thugs and her cop brothers. Why?...
... Because the guy "pursued her and acutally grabbed her," thereby comitting an assault and battery -- a crime recognized anywhere in the civilized world.
He got what was coming to him IMHO.
the guy "acutally grabbed" her, thereby comitting an assault and battery -- a crime anywhere in the world.
he got what was coming to him imho.opebo is obviously also one ot those who think it is ok to treat all thai women as *****s and a little [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) doesn't harm (that is the next step to grabbing).
he and cheap meat (see his manual in the pattaya thread of how to rip a tg off her deserved salary) are 2 representants of the real low lifes.
What an awful overreaction! She had 'gotten away' from him and still thought it necessary to call in motorcycle taxi thugs and her cop brothers. Why?
Essentially a tourist will be beaten up just because he pestered someone a little.
(I always side with my brethren).
I like to help my fellow tourist too unless he is being idiotic such as this guy was. He assaulted the girl and probably scared her shitless. Man what if that was your mother, sister or your ole lady. I would been dragging my foot out his ass.
Earlier I posted about my experience with 2 Indian and a Pakistani friend in BKK. (see below)
First, I stand corrected as to my descripton of "thai girls." I have NO experience with Thai girls other than P2P. All the events I described earlier were with P2P girls in BKK and Pattaya.
So, if I offended anyone who have construed from my statement that (ALL) "thai girls" are available for play in exchange of $$, I sincerely do apologize. I did not mean "good" thai girls.
As this thread dealt with racism in Thailand, I thought I was contributing to share my OWN experience (not hearsay) with P2P girls, because, this website is not intended for males who are looking for wives.
I will rephrase the crux of my findings. It is possible that P2P thai girls have standards such as they won't fuck moslems, or guys with beards. But, in general, if you are clean looking, with personal hygiene, well dressed, and above all, you have $$ to spend, then your race or color is not that important to a P2P thai girl. A P2P thai girl is merely trying to part with your $$. That's all. Whew! I said it.
As we had a lot of fun during our recent trip, we are now planning a trip to Cambodia OR Philipines in early October. I will post on the appropriate ISG forum sharing my experience again as to the race and color of the monger and the P2P girl reactions.
Peace!
MD
Old Thai Hand
04-22-08, 12:11
As this thread dealt with racism in Thailand, I thought I was contributing to share my OWN experience (not hearsay) with P2P girls, because, this website is not intended for males who are looking for wives.
MD
Actually, not necessarily. There are many on here looking beyond P4P.
It is possible that P2P thai girls have standards such as they won't fuck moslems, or guys with beards. MD
Thai women, in general certainly don't like any kind of facial hair and in fact don't really like much body hair at all, on a man.
Satrai2000
04-22-08, 20:27
...Thai women, in general certainly don't like any kind of facial hair and in fact don't really like much body hair at all, on a man.Well, I think women in general don't like much body hair.
However, in general a hairy chest is considered as masculine and sexy (I am not talking about the "ape-chest" bit let's say a normal amount of hair).
Even by SE-Asian women!
NicFrenchy
04-23-08, 00:37
However, in general a hairy chest is considered as masculine and sexy (I am not talking about the "ape-chest" bit let's say a normal amount of hair).
Even by SE-Asian women!
Very true! I have chest hair and my Non P4P giks love to play with them. They tell me it is sexy and even ask why Thai men don't have any?
Satrai2000
04-23-08, 17:54
Very true! I have chest hair and my Non P4P giks love to play with them. They tell me it is sexy and even ask why Thai men don't have any?Yeah!
East-Asian men seldom have chest-hair.
Street Fisher
04-29-08, 20:39
I did not partake in any P2P girls. I was there with a Thai girl I met in the USA and am now engaged too.
I can say the Thai's treated me well and were always friendly and caring towards me.
I am not a world traveler but have been around alittle and Thailand is definetly the most friendly country to Farangs there is.
I had read some reports about racism against Indians in Thailand. Whilst I am not doubting this, I have to say my experience was quite different. This was my second trip to Thailand. On the first trip I did not explore the nightlife much, but was training in muy thai. This trip was more about golf and go go bars. Both times I have been bowled over by Thai friendliness and courtesy. I am an Indian living in India, although educated in Australia and the US. Whilst I have somewhat fairer skin than most Indians I still consider myself very much a brown man. I visted about 20-25 go go bars in Pattaya and was only asked at the door where I was from twice, once at club boesche and the other time at the beach club. Each time I said India, secretly hoping I would be turned away so I could write a blog on those damn rascist Thais. But the door man look at some other guy who then gave him a nod and said "wey-come" with a gracious wai! Then inside when asked where I was from I would again say India, the girls would jump me, start kissing me, play with my chest hair, grab my crotch bump and grind their asses and pussies in my face, jacuzzi girls were all over me, all par for the course in Pattaya. But if they had any problems with Indians they sure had a strange way of showing it. On the other hand I did get the old "but you don't look Indian" line quite a bit as well, sometimes people thought I was greek or italian, other times Arab, in any case I always said I was Indian and I got a good reaction, people said they liked Indian music or sometimes girls were wearing nose studs which they thought were an Indian fashion. I only saw one other person who may have been Indian in a go go bar though. Which is fine by me, as I am unlikely to see anyone I know from Delhi or Mumbai! In any case I love Thailand. So I am counting down the days till my next trip.
Rana,
That is an excellent report from your perspective, and gives the most info needed for all. I have an indian frieind that also reports a similiar good time. Alot is how you handle yourself behaviour wise and deal with Thai culture.
Cheers!
I had read some reports about racism against Indians in Thailand. Whilst I am not doubting this, I have to say my experience was quite different. This was my second trip to Thailand. On the first trip I did not explore the nightlife much, but was training in muy thai. This trip was more about golf and go go bars. Both times I have been bowled over by Thai friendliness and courtesy. I am an Indian living in India, although educated in Australia and the US. Whilst I have somewhat fairer skin than most Indians I still consider myself very much a brown man. I visted about 20-25 go go bars in Pattaya and was only asked at the door where I was from twice, once at club boesche and the other time at the beach club. Each time I said India, secretly hoping I would be turned away so I could write a blog on those damn rascist Thais. But the door man look at some other guy who then gave him a nod and said "wey-come" with a gracious wai! Then inside when asked where I was from I would again say India, the girls would jump me, start kissing me, play with my chest hair, grab my crotch bump and grind their asses and pussies in my face, jacuzzi girls were all over me, all par for the course in Pattaya. But if they had any problems with Indians they sure had a strange way of showing it. On the other hand I did get the old "but you don't look Indian" line quite a bit as well, sometimes people thought I was greek or italian, other times Arab, in any case I always said I was Indian and I got a good reaction, people said they liked Indian music or sometimes girls were wearing nose studs which they thought were an Indian fashion. I only saw one other person who may have been Indian in a go go bar though. Which is fine by me, as I am unlikely to see anyone I know from Delhi or Mumbai! In any case I love Thailand. So I am counting down the days till my next trip.
Satrai2000
05-18-08, 20:41
I had read some reports about racism against Indians in Thailand. Whilst I am not doubting this, I have to say my experience was quite different. This was my second trip to Thailand. On the first trip I did not explore the nightlife much, but was training in muy thai. This trip was more about golf and go go bars. Both times I have been bowled over by Thai friendliness and courtesy. I am an Indian living in India, although educated in Australia and the US. Whilst I have somewhat fairer skin than most Indians I still consider myself very much a brown man. I visted about 20-25 go go bars in Pattaya and was only asked at the door where I was from twice, once at club boesche and the other time at the beach club. Each time I said India, secretly hoping I would be turned away so I could write a blog on those damn rascist Thais. But the door man look at some other guy who then gave him a nod and said "wey-come" with a gracious wai! Then inside when asked where I was from I would again say India, the girls would jump me, start kissing me, play with my chest hair, grab my crotch bump and grind their asses and pussies in my face, jacuzzi girls were all over me, all par for the course in Pattaya. But if they had any problems with Indians they sure had a strange way of showing it. On the other hand I did get the old "but you don't look Indian" line quite a bit as well, sometimes people thought I was greek or italian, other times Arab, in any case I always said I was Indian and I got a good reaction, people said they liked Indian music or sometimes girls were wearing nose studs which they thought were an Indian fashion. I only saw one other person who may have been Indian in a go go bar though. Which is fine by me, as I am unlikely to see anyone I know from Delhi or Mumbai! In any case I love Thailand. So I am counting down the days till my next trip.I have been doing Bkk since about ten years now and my experiences are very different from yours.
They spit on my, kick my ass, never let me go into RawHide, call me curry-eater, won't rent me any room to stay, laugh at me, not a single taxidriver that wants me in his car, shop-entrances are barred for me, no massage-lady that wants to massage me. It's terrible, I tell you!
I have been doing Bkk since about ten years now and my experiences are very different from yours.
They spit on my, kick my ass, never let me go into RawHide, call me curry-eater, won't rent me any room to stay, laugh at me, not a single taxidriver that wants me in his car, shop-entrances are barred for me, no massage-lady that wants to massage me. It's terrible, I tell you!
OMG. :D
Hey, I have been to LOS about 30 times in the last 6 years. I could never get treated like you, no matter how much I tried. What gives? Must be the scent you are wearing. :)
Satrai2000
05-19-08, 20:41
OMG. :D
Hey, I have been to LOS about 30 times in the last 6 years. I could never get treated like you, no matter how much I tried. What gives? Must be the scent you are wearing. :)Really?
That damn Hugo Boss aftershave.
AsiaTraveler2
05-20-08, 08:51
Really?
That damn Hugo Boss aftershave.
I prefer Hugo Baht personally. An unusual scent, but it seems to work well at NEP. ;)
AT2
OTH,
This is a little old, but I have a question about the incident you describe in your 4-20-08 report. This will probably offend you, but I have to ask: were there any other witnesses to the incident inside the store? Did anyone else see the farang actually grab your GF?
Old Thai Hand
06-10-08, 04:35
OTH,
This is a little old, but I have a question about the incident you describe in your 4-20-08 report. This will probably offend you, but I have to ask: were there any other witnesses to the incident inside the store? Did anyone else see the farang actually grab your GF?
It happened at the front of the store and was seen by the two cashiers.
Further to this discussion.
My GF was in a 7/11 near Emporium one night, on her way home, when she was propositioned by some drunk Farang. Embarassed, she simply moved away from him. He pursued her and actually grabbed her, shoved money in her face, and angrily screamed at her something she didn't understand. She got away from him, ran outside and told a couple of motorcyle taxi guys what had happened. They came inside and grabbed him. My GF then called her brothers, both of whom are cops and who live closeby. The Farang was taken by police truck to ThongLor station where he was given a rather warm welcome Thai police style. He then had his visa revoked and was put on a plane the following day. I'm sure he still has quite "fond" memories of his sextour to Thailand.
Just because some of these guys see the ease with which they can get laid, and let it go to their heads doesn't mean that it's open season in Thailand. Visitors to any foreign country, but especially to a place like this should exercise caution and restraint, or they might get a nasty surprise.Pull the other one. It's got bells on it.
Old Thai Hand
07-16-08, 17:34
Pull the other one. It's got bells on it.
What's that supposed to mean?
won't rent me any room to stay
I've seen this first hand against an arab man. There was vacancy at a small hotel in suk area and the receptionist flat out told the man that all rooms were full. I asked her in thai why she turned the the man down and she replied that the hotel would not rent to arabs, and that they preferred farang clientele. I was pretty shocked at how open she was about it. This is a true story, no bs!
I've seen this first hand against an arab man. There was vacancy at a small hotel in suk area and the receptionist flat out told the man that all rooms were full. I asked her in thai why she turned the the man down and she replied that the hotel would not rent to arabs, and that they preferred farang clientele. I was pretty shocked at how open she was about it. This is a true story, no bs!
I think there have been hard feelings between Arabs and Thais ever since Saudi Arabia broke off its diplomatic relations with Thailand and banned its citizens from travelling to Thailand over a dispute about the theft of Royal Jewels in Saudi Arabia by a Thai servant.
Rightly or wrongly, many Thais also see Arabs as supporters of the muslim rebels in southern Thailand.
Of course, the Arab man who was turned away from that hotel may have had nothing to do with these disputes between Arabs and Thais. But this kind of prejudice is not uncommon even in western countries. Some Arabs feared for their lives in the aftermath of 9/11 in USA, even when they had nothing to do with that terrorist attack.
Prejudice comes from unresolved conflicts that fester for a long time. And Thais are not the only ones who can be prejudiced like that. People of all nationalities can be like that.
NicFrenchy
07-17-08, 01:13
I asked her in thai why she turned the the man down and she replied that the hotel would not rent to arabs, and that they preferred farang clientele. I was pretty shocked at how open she was about it. This is a true story, no bs!
I have been to a lot of hotels (in Europe) where Arabs (from the middle east only) are also refused. The day I asked why, I was told that they reserve the room for 2 persons, show up with 4 kids, refuse to pay extra, cook in the room and let the kids draw on the walls.
The manager I spoke to said that the last room they rented to a saudi cost them 4,000 USD in repair adn repaint. And the Agent that sent the client refused to cover the expenses.
I have been to a lot of hotels (in Europe) where Arabs (from the middle east only) are also refused. The day I asked why, I was told that they reserve the room for 2 persons, show up with 4 kids, refuse to pay extra, cook in the room and let the kids draw on the walls.
The manager I spoke to said that the last room they rented to a saudi cost them 4,000 USD in repair adn repaint. And the Agent that sent the client refused to cover the expenses.
The Grand President on Soi 11 used to, (still might to this day) have a policy of charging Middle Eastern and Indian guests more than Westerners, for the very same reason. Since the GP has at the very least, a kitchenette in each unit, some of these guests would cook on a regular basis, and the smell from the ethnic food would take a long time to dissipate. I remember checking into a room that had an overbearing curry odor. I asked to be moved to a different unit, and was, with no fuss.
M P Lurker
07-17-08, 03:03
I have been to a lot of hotels (in Europe) where Arabs (from the middle east only) are also refused. The day I asked why, I was told that they reserve the room for 2 persons, show up with 4 kids, refuse to pay extra, cook in the room and let the kids draw on the walls.
The manager I spoke to said that the last room they rented to a saudi cost them 4,000 USD in repair adn repaint. And the Agent that sent the client refused to cover the expenses.
The Century Park Hotel (Din Daeng) had a policy of charging more for Australians than for Europeans.
I assume this mean't I had to subsidise other Aussies who had a bad reputation for stealing, damaging property, and not paying for minibar, Hotel room, spilling things when drunk, etc.
I am staying in the Mariott now on Sukumvit. I have witnessed nothing about racism here against arabs. On the contrary, the hotel has many of them. I have nothing agaianst arabs in general, but when the hotel is for 40% filled with women in black dress with covered faces this getting too much for me!
Yes I know I am close to the arab quarter here but I have stayed in this place many times at different times in the season and it was never like this.
Old Thai Hand
07-31-08, 12:23
I am staying in the Mariott now on Sukumvit. I have witnessed nothing about racism here against arabs. On the contrary, the hotel has many of them. I have nothing agaianst arabs in general, but when the hotel is for 40% filled with women in black dress with covered faces this getting too much for me!
Yes I know I am close to the arab quarter here but I have stayed in this place many times at different times in the season and it was never like this.
There are more and more Gulf arabs coming here all the time, especially for medical care. They aren't just confined to the middle eastern sois around Nana, either. I shop at Carrefour on Rama 4 and now see them even there, all the time now, and that's a predominantly Thai area. I was at Bangkok Hospital today and I'd say at least 30% of the patients their were Gulf arabs.
I've discussed moving to Dubai a number of times with Piper 1 and have wondered about the culture shock. But, there are so many here now that I may not notice much of a difference.
I was at Bangkok Hospital today and I'd say at least 30% of the patients their were Gulf arabs.
I've discussed moving to Dubai a number of times with Piper 1 and have wondered about the culture shock. But, there are so many here now that I may not notice much of a difference. You should feel at home then, as the Dubai population consists of approximately 25% Arabs. The remainder consists of 45% Indian/Pakistani and other subcontinentals, 20% Philipinos and 10% whitefellas.
Old Thai Hand
08-01-08, 11:13
You should feel at home then, as the Dubai population consists of approximately 25% Arabs. The remainder consists of 45% Indian/Pakistani and other subcontinentals, 20% Philipinos and 10% whitefellas.
Nothing to do with this thread, but...
When I was in Dubai, I was greeted by a stunning filipina sent by the uni to get me through customs and into my hotel, and I wondered how accessible she'd be (I didn't try). I was later told by an expat that despite the large numbers, they tended to stick to their own community and were not easily available.
Is this, in fact the case?
Nothing to do with this thread, but...
When I was in Dubai, I was greeted by a stunning filipina sent by the uni to get me through customs and into my hotel, and I wondered how accessible she'd be (I didn't try). I was later told by an expat that despite the large numbers, they tended to stick to their own community and were not easily available.
Is this, in fact the case?No, not the case. Many guys of all nationalities have steady Filipina girlfriends (and a few unsteady ;)). I know several guys who hit the Philipino or western nightclubs and usually go home with a freebie or two. They are far from home and lonely fun-loving girls. There are also more and more semi-WG Filipinas nowadays, working in hotels and malls full-time, and supplementing their incomes due to spiralling rents, either by being picked-up at a club or being 'suggar-daddied'. My own cup runneth over with beautiful young Filipinas from friendster.com (a relatively recent strategy I'm trying, and I haven't even tried some of the more full-on dating sites yet).
Cooling Guy
08-07-08, 08:15
Holy gizz, I didn't know Australian not welcome in Thailand. This is very sad.
What's that supposed to mean?It means that your story is unconvincing. I don't believe it. It has a beginning, middle, and end, but it doesn't ring true.
What's that supposed to mean?I should probably elaborate as to why I doubt the veracity of your story, quoted below:
"My GF was in a 7/11 near Emporium one night, on her way home, when she was propositioned by some drunk Farang. Embarassed, she simply moved away from him. He pursued her and actually grabbed her, shoved money in her face, and angrily screamed at her something she didn't understand. She got away from him, ran outside and told a couple of motorcyle taxi guys what had happened. They came inside and grabbed him. My GF then called her brothers, both of whom are cops and who live closeby. The Farang was taken by police truck to ThongLor station where he was given a rather warm welcome Thai police style. He then had his visa revoked and was put on a plane the following day. I'm sure he still has quite "fond" memories of his sextour to Thailand.
Just because some of these guys see the ease with which they can get laid, and let it go to their heads doesn't mean that it's open season in Thailand. Visitors to any foreign country, but especially to a place like this should exercise caution and restraint, or they might get a nasty surprise. "
First, it is entirely hearsay. Told to you by, presumably, your GF and perhaps her brothers. Second, your GF's reaction is not typical, in fact, it is quite an over-reaction especially when she really didn't understand what the farang was saying. Why wouldn't she simply leave? Third, the taxi guys are able to calmly interact with this drunken guy without further violence? They'd have an even poorer rapport with him than your GF would and yet everybody just stood around waiting for the cops without further ado? Fourth, your wife has two cop brothers both of whom happen to be sitting around with their thumbs up their asses and available to respond instantly to this farang insult (or whatever it was). Try to hook up with one person on short notice. Now try two. Fifth, the farang gets a warm welcome Thai police style. Who told you this- your GF? The Thai police? Sixth, for the crime of propositioning your GF the farang is instantly spirited out of the country. I think that was the conclusion in another of your tales, but in any event it is a remarkable efficiency in a country not noted for that. Seventh, it concludes with a moral that supports your thesis that sex tourists behave boorishly but the Thai's are ever-vigilant to correct them. This gives you a motive to make up or at least embelish events to fit your agenda. Finally, the aggresive drunken farang pushing money in a woman's face is not something I've encountered. I have seen many farang too shy to approach women, or barfine a go-go girl. I've seen them walk in to LL and walk out again too shy to sit down. I've never seen one behave the way you relate. Not even in Pattaya!
Terry Terrier
08-08-08, 00:49
Nothing to do with this thread, but...
When I was in Dubai, I was greeted by a stunning filipina sent by the uni to get me through customs and into my hotel, and I wondered how accessible she'd be (I didn't try). I was later told by an expat that despite the large numbers, they tended to stick to their own community and were not easily available.
Is this, in fact the case?
OTH,
If you appear to be boyfriend material, or anything even remotely close to it, many of the Filipinas will throw themselves at you in Dubai. Remember, even though most of them have boyfriends/husbands back home, they are earthy girls who are in Dubai for usually minimum six month stretches. But also remember, unless you are keeping things strictly P4P, your life could get quite complicated.
There are more and more Gulf arabs coming here all the time, especially for medical care. They aren't just confined to the middle eastern sois around Nana, either. I shop at Carrefour on Rama 4 and now see them even there, all the time now, and that's a predominantly Thai area. I was at Bangkok Hospital today and I'd say at least 30% of the patients their were Gulf arabs.
I've discussed moving to Dubai a number of times with Piper 1 and have wondered about the culture shock. But, there are so many here now that I may not notice much of a difference.
There is a booming organ transplant bizz here that many of the Arabs partake in.
TT is correct - they are earthy girls (very earthy). I keep things at least semi-P4P for my own reasons (I'm happily married, so I'm not boyfriend material, and I make that clear from the start - including my dating site profiles). This way, we all know the boundaries and we all stay happy. It means I lose out on a lot of potential cuties, but there are no complications for any of us.
OTH,
If you appear to be boyfriend material, or anything even remotely close to it, many of the Filipinas will throw themselves at you in Dubai. Remember, even though most of them have boyfriends/husbands back home, they are earthy girls who are in Dubai for usually minimum six month stretches. But also remember, unless you are keeping things strictly P4P, your life could get quite complicated.
OTH,
If you appear to be boyfriend material, or anything even remotely close to it, many of the Filipinas will throw themselves at you in Dubai. Remember, even though most of them have boyfriends/husbands back home, they are earthy girls who are in Dubai for usually minimum six month stretches. But also remember, unless you are keeping things strictly P4P, your life could get quite complicated.
Off the subject but had to interject... When I first hit Dubai finding Filipinas for p4p was kind of difficult. My have the times changed. As for non-pro pinays in Dubai they do tend to stick to their own if they have a decent job. In my 3 and half years of traveling to Dubai I have found it extremely rare to see them hanging out with other foreigners. Hell I even go eat at a nice Filipino restaurants and I just don’t see it. If they are earning good money why do they need you? Now for the lower tier ones working in the malls, clubs, hotels etc. You will probably get lucky as a Four Leaf Clover.
Terry Terrier
08-08-08, 05:16
Off the subject but had to interject... When I first hit Dubai finding Filipinas for p4p was kind of difficult. My have the times changed. As for non-pro pinays in Dubai they do tend to stick to their own if they have a decent job. In my 3 and half years of traveling to Dubai I have found it extremely rare to see them hanging out with other foreigners. Hell I even go eat at a nice Filipino restaurants and I just don’t see it. If they are earning good money why do they need you? Now for the lower tier ones working in the malls, clubs, hotels etc. You will probably get lucky as a Four Leaf Clover.
Well, we are starting to go offtopic now, but if you don't look like Dracula's uncle there is a very good chance you will have a nice encounter with a pretty Pinay, even if it's just ordering a steak and curly fries at The Jebel Ali Club when the Gooners are playing their opening premiership match on Star Sports.
There is a booming organ transplant bizz here that many of the Arabs partake in.
I thought it was the organ removal business that was booming in BKK.
never can tell - the "addadicktome" might be as popular for the arabs as the "addacracktome" is for some "others" :)
Well, we are starting to go offtopic now, but if you don't look like Dracula's uncle there is a very good chance you will have a nice encounter with a pretty Pinay...Yes, off topic. So check out Dubai thread and photo gallery instead. I do look like Dracula's uncle, but had a great time in a Philipino club last night, including a brief encounter with a cute Filipina (which unfortunately I couldn't follow up at the time).
I should probably elaborate as to why I doubt the veracity of your story, quoted below:
"My GF was in a 7/11 near Emporium one night, on her way home, when she was propositioned by some drunk Farang. Embarassed, she simply moved away from him. He pursued her and actually grabbed her, shoved money in her face, and angrily screamed at her something she didn't understand. She got away from him, ran outside and told a couple of motorcyle taxi guys what had happened. They came inside and grabbed him. My GF then called her brothers, both of whom are cops and who live closeby. The Farang was taken by police truck to ThongLor station where he was given a rather warm welcome Thai police style. He then had his visa revoked and was put on a plane the following day. I'm sure he still has quite "fond" memories of his sextour to Thailand.
Just because some of these guys see the ease with which they can get laid, and let it go to their heads doesn't mean that it's open season in Thailand. Visitors to any foreign country, but especially to a place like this should exercise caution and restraint, or they might get a nasty surprise. "
First, it is entirely hearsay. Told to you by, presumably, your GF and perhaps her brothers. Second, your GF's reaction is not typical, in fact, it is quite an over-reaction especially when she really didn't understand what the farang was saying. Why wouldn't she simply leave? Third, the taxi guys are able to calmly interact with this drunken guy without further violence? They'd have an even poorer rapport with him than your GF would and yet everybody just stood around waiting for the cops without further ado? Fourth, your wife has two cop brothers both of whom happen to be sitting around with their thumbs up their asses and available to respond instantly to this farang insult (or whatever it was). Try to hook up with one person on short notice. Now try two. Fifth, the farang gets a warm welcome Thai police style. Who told you this- your GF? The Thai police? Sixth, for the crime of propositioning your GF the farang is instantly spirited out of the country. I think that was the conclusion in another of your tales, but in any event it is a remarkable efficiency in a country not noted for that. Seventh, it concludes with a moral that supports your thesis that sex tourists behave boorishly but the Thai's are ever-vigilant to correct them. This gives you a motive to make up or at least embelish events to fit your agenda. Finally, the aggresive drunken farang pushing money in a woman's face is not something I've encountered. I have seen many farang too shy to approach women, or barfine a go-go girl. I've seen them walk in to LL and walk out again too shy to sit down. I've never seen one behave the way you relate. Not even in Pattaya!
Oh, and here's the clincher which I was saving for rebuttal, but since you apparently have no response here it is: it is impossible for you to know all of the above, especially the fact of the deportation, without also knowing the nationality of the farang. I suppose he is a national of the same imaginary country as that farang who was taking photos on your campus and also deported.
You're an intelligent guy, Old Thai Hand, and you provide some useful information about LOS once in a while, but please spare us the gratuitous farang-bashing in future.
Old Thai Hand
08-09-08, 08:49
Oh, and here's the clincher which I was saving for rebuttal, but since you apparently have no response here it is: it is impossible for you to know all of the above, especially the fact of the deportation, without also knowing the nationality of the farang. I suppose he is a national of the same imaginary country as that farang who was taking photos on your campus and also deported.
You're an intelligent guy, Old Thai Hand, and you provide some useful information about LOS once in a while, but please spare us the gratuitous farang-bashing in future.
I'm not going to bother to elaborate on this, as you've already made up your mind that you're extremely confident that you know the truth and that either I or my GF are full of shit. Frankly, I can't be bothered responding in detail to you.
I will say this, however. You're a newbie visitor. So what the hell do you really know about Thailand, it's police and and how they operate?
You called my GF a liar concerning this story and me a liar concerning the story of the photographer on my university campus. For someone with a handful of mediocre posts, and a newbie's knowledge of the country, you've got a lot of balls.
Also, my GF's brothers are not just regular 'beat' cops. In particular, one is an officer in the security service, and is directly connected (although I won't risk saying how) to the Royal Household Bureau.
I know the story to be true. What I post here is always true. That's all there is too it.
I was in BKK last year and had the common sense to not walk around so drunk I was being inappropriate to random woman I might meet. Some woman might just walk away and some cab drivers might not grab him and most woman don't have brothers who are cops, this is true in BKK or in the usa, but it could also go the other way and you could get arrested and since most do not want to be arrested in BKK don't do anything to risk that happening. It is not farang bashing to point out some fool who behaves like an ass and is unlucky enough to get called on it. He probably pulled that stuff many times and finally came across the wrong girl who had brothers who were cops and got his ass beat and thrown thrown out. So the lesson is don't ever behave like that and you won't have problems.
Oh, and here's the clincher which I was saving for rebuttal, but since you apparently have no response here it is: it is impossible for you to know all of the above, especially the fact of the deportation, without also knowing the nationality of the farang. I suppose he is a national of the same imaginary country as that farang who was taking photos on your campus and also deported.
You're an intelligent guy, Old Thai Hand, and you provide some useful information about LOS once in a while, but please spare us the gratuitous farang-bashing in future.
I'm not going to bother to elaborate on this, as you've already made up your mind that you're extremely confident that you know the truth and that either I or my GF are full of shit. Frankly, I can't be bothered responding in detail to you.
I will say this, however. You're a newbie visitor. So what the hell do you really know about Thailand, it's police and and how they operate?
You called my GF a liar concerning this story and me a liar concerning the story of the photographer on my university campus. For someone with a handful of mediocre posts, and a newbie's knowledge of the country, you've got a lot of balls.
Also, my GF's brothers are not just regular 'beat' cops. In particular, one is an officer in the security service, and is directly connected (although I won't risk saying how) to the Royal Household Bureau.
I know the story to be true. What I post here is always true. That's all there is too it.
I'm not calling your GF a liar, just you honey.
I was in BKK last year and had the common sense to not walk around so drunk I was being inappropriate to random woman I might meet. Some woman might just walk away and some cab drivers might not grab him and most woman don't have brothers who are cops, this is true in BKK or in the usa, but it could also go the other way and you could get arrested and since most do not want to be arrested in BKK don't do anything to risk that happening. It is not farang bashing to point out some fool who behaves like an ass and is unlucky enough to get called on it. He probably pulled that stuff many times and finally came across the wrong girl who had brothers who were cops and got his ass beat and thrown thrown out. So the lesson is don't ever behave like that and you won't have problems.
Making up BS about farang rudeness is farang-bashing, pal. WTF is motivating you to stick up for OTH in this (other than, judging by your syntax, possible retardation)?
Old Thai Hand
08-15-08, 02:39
I'm not calling your GF a liar, just you honey.
Another know-nothing wanker hits the road crawling, dragging his knuckles till they bleed.
Welcome to Thailand, tourist.
SE Asia Joe
08-15-08, 03:45
Gents:
Please allow me to interject a bit of perspective into your disucssion if you don't mind too much.
Would you guys act the same was you do in Thailand if you were out mongering - or even just living - in Japan?
Would you even consider it Farang/Gaijin bashing if you had to go through some of the rigamarole one does have to go thru in Japan as a gaijin? To get serviced AND even whilst going about your daily living? Or would you fall meekly in line with what is expected out of you as a foreigner in Japan??
I've posted a bit of reminder about some of the atrocious behavior by foreigners that I've witnessed in some of the more impoverished countries including China (China Zhuhai and Gen. Info pages) - juxtaposed against a re-post of a "Recommended Modus Operandi for mongering in Japan" that was posted in the Kansai board. Also my recommendation that all of us do really examine oneself's behaviour in Third World countries/how easily just about all of us get lulled into a sense of Economic superiority here.
Just my humble POV Gents - and apologies if I do offend anybody
SEAJ
Old Thai Hand
08-15-08, 07:04
Gents:
Please allow me to interject a bit of perspective into your disucssion if you don't mind too much.
Would you guys act the same was you do in Thailand if you were out mongering - or even just living - in Japan?
Would you even consider it Farang/Gaijin bashing if you had to go through some of the rigamarole one does have to go thru in Japan as a gaijin? To get serviced AND even whilst going about your daily living? Or would you fall meekly in line with what is expected out of you as a foreigner in Japan??
I've posted a bit of reminder about some of the atrocious behavior by foreigners that I've witnessed in some of the more impoverished countries including China (China Zhuhai and Gen. Info pages) - juxtaposed against a re-post of a "Recommended Modus Operandi for mongering in Japan" that was posted in the Kansai board. Also my recommendation that all of us do really examine oneself's behaviour in Third World countries/how easily just about all of us get lulled into a sense of Economic superiority here.
Just my humble POV Gents - and apologies if I do offend anybody
SEAJ
There is a long history of extremely bad behaviour by Farang mongers in Thailand. Unfortunately, certain ignorant, uppity newbies just don't get it. This isn't Farang bashing. It's simply how it is. Of course, the guys that are guilty of this kind of behaviour are in the minority. But, unfortunately in recent years with more visitors here, the incidents have increased dramatically. There have been reports of this on this board on numerous occasions over the years. I've personally witnessed several incidents since I came here 12 years ago, the most recent only last week in Pattaya. I was sitting next to a drunk Farang in a bar on Walking Street and suddenly, there was a struggle as a bg pulled away from him, while he was grabbing her. She then screamed, "You're not my boyfriend. I can do what I want!" I don't know the back story to their 'relationship'. But, a group of Thai guys (I assume they were bouncers) quickly appeared and hauled this guy outside.
My GF and I used to live on Sukhumvit 22, which has increasingly become a monger area. After repeatedly being hassled (mainly verbally) by Farang and also Indian tourists, which culminated in the assault in the 7/11 I reported, which Washburn in his ill-informed certainty believes is a lie, my GF begged for us to move to a safer area, which we did last year.
Hopefully with the increased costs of traveling to Thailand, the lowlife scum inflicted on Thailand in recent years will be unable to afford to do their little sex tours, anymore, and there will be fewer incidents of bad behaviour.
NicFrenchy
08-15-08, 08:14
My GF and I used to live on Sukhumvit 22, which has increasingly become a monger area. After repeatedly being hassled (mainly verbally) by Farang and also Indian tourists, which culminated in the assault in the 7/11 I reported, which Washburn in his ill-informed certainty believes is a lie, my GF begged for us to move to a safer area, which we did last year.
Sukhumvit soi 22 is really not my scene but I occasionaly go there because one of the street vendors, the one right before you turn to go to Rose MAssage (ex Kornwan) has a great Som Tam.
I have to pass by there every so often and indulge in his great food everytime. On the way back to sukhumvit you can see one of BKK's worst bar (from what I have sen) : Angel Bar, where staff as well as customers were probably all at sonme point in the past auditioning for a role in Star war's mutant bar.
Hopefully with the increased costs of traveling to Thailand, the lowlife scum inflicted on Thailand in recent years will be unable to afford to do their little sex tours, anymore, and there will be fewer incidents of bad behaviour.
While I think your sterotyping by economic class is probably useful when judging the risk of property crime, it probably is not so when assessing the risk of rudeness, crassness, groping, and other frightful sex crimes.
Keep in mind that while poors are driven to crime by economic necessity, they are generally far more fearful of authority and thus unlikely to risk a run-in for grabbing a boob when the one right down the street is cheaply rentable. By contrast the wealthier sort of traveller, particularly from outside Europe, are used to getting away with doing whatever they want to the help at home or abroad.
While I think your sterotyping by economic class is probably useful when judging the risk of property crime, it probably is not so when assessing the risk of rudeness, crassness, groping, and other frightful sex crimes.
Keep in mind that while poors are driven to crime by economic necessity, they are generally far more fearful of authority and thus unlikely to risk a run-in for grabbing a boob when the one right down the street is cheaply rentable. By contrast the wealthier sort of traveller, particularly from outside Europe, are used to getting away with doing whatever they want to the help at home or abroad.
Damn Opebo I disagree with you (beating base) American street slang for going Bare back but you always drop some superb knowledge. In layman terms your points are always prolific and valid.
Old Thai Hand
08-15-08, 11:35
While I think your sterotyping by economic class is probably useful when judging the risk of property crime, it probably is not so when assessing the risk of rudeness, crassness, groping, and other frightful sex crimes.
Your point is valid. But, there just seems to be have been a sharp rise in this sort of behaviour which has corresponded with the increased accessibility to Thailand in recent years, to your average Joes of modest means.
But you're right. That doesn't mean that bad behaviour is the exclusive domain of poor yobs. I'm sure that well-healed travelers might be worse because of a sense of entitlement. But, regardless of class, the idea of acting in a manor that would be unacceptable in their home countries because they're on holidays and feel somehow immune seems to be endemic among certain types of the monger mob.
Cunning Stunt
08-15-08, 13:01
Your point is valid. But, there just seems to be have been a sharp rise in this sort of behaviour which has corresponded with the increased accessibility to Thailand in recent years, to your average Joes of modest means.
But you're right. That doesn't mean that bad behaviour is the exclusive domain of poor yobs. I'm sure that well-healed travelers might be worse because of a sense of entitlement. But, regardless of class, the idea of acting in a manor that would be unacceptable in their home countries because they're on holidays and feel somehow immune seems to be endemic among certain types of the monger mob.
Big rise in snooty snobbish, lord of the 'manor' types who look down their 'cultured' long snouts at the rest of the seething masses of 'average Joes', 'poor yobs' and 'monger mobs' who defile and desecrate the harmony of this wonderful tropical paradise. But I think we get your point. Just need to start targeting nationalities now and you will have a stereotypical full house. Could start with the British?
Old Thai Hand
08-16-08, 07:14
Big rise in snooty snobbish, lord of the 'manor' types who look down their 'cultured' long snouts at the rest of the seething masses of 'average Joes', 'poor yobs' and 'monger mobs' who defile and desecrate the harmony of this wonderful tropical paradise. But I think we get your point. Just need to start targeting nationalities now and you will have a stereotypical full house. Could start with the British?
Actually, while I used to be quite bothered by the impact of bad behaviour by foreign tourists because I cared a lot about what Thais thought, I don't generally really care that much anymore, except when it affects me personally. This all started because Washburn accused me of fabricating the story about the assault on my GF, as a means for me to bash Farang. I don't need to make up incidents to give me ammunition for criticizing Farang behaviour. There's lots of material to draw on.
Oh, and here's the clincher which I was saving for rebuttal, but since you apparently have no response here it is: it is impossible for you to know all of the above, especially the fact of the deportation, without also knowing the nationality of the farang. I suppose he is a national of the same imaginary country as that farang who was taking photos on your campus and also deported.
You're an intelligent guy, Old Thai Hand, and you provide some useful information about LOS once in a while, but please spare us the gratuitous farang-bashing in future.
I don't see anything untrue about the story. Sounds quite reasonable if the gf came from a wealthy family. Be careful who you mess with in LOS. Farangs who misbehave can have problems if they mess with the wrong people (those with power and connections).
Cunning Stunt
08-16-08, 17:34
Actually, while I used to be quite bothered by the impact of bad behaviour by foreign tourists because I cared a lot about what Thais thought, I don't generally really care that much anymore, except when it affects me personally. This all started because Washburn accused me of fabricating the story about the assault on my GF, as a means for me to bash Farang. I don't need to make up incidents to give me ammunition for criticizing Farang behaviour. There's lots of material to draw on.
Why bash farangs - after all I presume you are one. What is the point of impresssing Thai's? I have always gained the impression that, outside the farang orientated entertainment and tourist industries, the general consensus is that foreigners are crude, hairy, neandethals with more money than sense. But I will stand to be corrected for although I lived in Thailand for 2 years and spoke passable Thai, like most farangs I never felt anywhere near any degree of integration into polite Thai society. Maybe you have achieved that and I applaud you if you have but I don't think many do. Like the Chinese, I think they can be an insular, narrow-minded and zenophobic race. But maybe they have good reason to be so when you consider that a fair proportion of visitors to their country come there solely to drink, party and fornicate. Consider how you would feel if the boot was on the other foot and Thai's were visiting en masse to UK, Germany or USA for the same purpose. Outraged I would imagine. So maybe after all they are much more tolerant than they are given credit for. Depends on your degree of cynicism, I guess.
I don't see anything untrue about the story. Sounds quite reasonable if the gf came from a wealthy family. Be careful who you mess with in LOS. Farangs who misbehave can have problems if they mess with the wrong people (those with power and connections).
Happily one is unlikely to meet such people schlepping around in the 7/11.
Satrai2000
08-16-08, 20:58
...Consider how you would feel if the boot was on the other foot and Thai's were visiting en masse to UK, Germany or USA for the same purpose. Outraged I would imagine. So maybe after all they are much more tolerant than they are given credit for. Depends on your degree of cynicism, I guess.I as a curry-eating person from the South-Asian subcontinent have indeed visited western places like Amsterdam for the purpose of bonking local girls. And I am not the only one: I know that there are quite a lot of Japanese that do the same.
Now I wonder if that would make the local people outraged.
Terry Terrier
08-16-08, 23:34
Not in any way trying to justify bad behaviour, but the only general aspect of Western farang behaviour in Thailand of which anybody should be shocked is that they cause so little trouble as a whole. Spend a few days in any mass-tourism resort in Farangland, and one will witness hundreds of multiples of the scenes of fighting and molestation of those seen in Thai tourist areas.
My theory is: Just about any guy on holiday in Thailand who is capable of breathing can get laid, and this keeps the hormone (and aggression) levels comparatively down.
On rising airfares: This is going to hurt Thailand in the worst possible way. TAT wants to move away from sextourism toward the family market. A single long-haul airfare going up from E500-600 ($1000-1200) to E800-1000 (which they all will, fairly soon) equates to a rise of several hundred euros/dollars for a sex-starved single guy, but equates to a large-ish four figure rise for a family with two or three kids and only one or two earners. Hello sextourists, bye bye families.
Cunning Stunt
08-17-08, 02:55
I as a curry-eating person from the South-Asian subcontinent have indeed visited western places like Amsterdam for the purpose of bonking local girls. And I am not the only one: I know that there are quite a lot of Japanese that do the same.
Now I wonder if that would make the local people outraged.
You have highlighted an amusing possibility. If the economies of the west went into a severe recession (as is happening) and the economy of the subcontinent boomed, imagine a scenario where there was an mass influx of monied, sex-starved Indian tourists to, say London. With Southend as the new British Pattaya, staffed by thousands of Essex girls who would be the British equivalent of Isaan chicks.
Amsterdam is a special case but I am suprised you were able to find local girls to bonk amongst the hordes of Eastern Europeans, South Americans, Thai's, Africans etc etc, that make it the most cosmopolitan fuckfest city on earth. And all spiced by a little legal herb!!
Hello sextourists, bye bye families.
Be like returning to the glory days of the 80's when the majority of visitors to Thailand were either backpackers or mongers (mutually interchangeable) and who between them kickstarted the roaring monster which is the Thai Tourist Industry we see today.
Old Thai Hand
08-17-08, 03:12
Why bash farangs - after all I presume you are one. What is the point of impresssing Thai's? I have always gained the impression that, outside the farang orientated entertainment and tourist industries, the general consensus is that foreigners are crude, hairy, neandethals with more money than sense. But I will stand to be corrected for although I lived in Thailand for 2 years and spoke passable Thai, like most farangs I never felt anywhere near any degree of integration into polite Thai society. Maybe you have achieved that and I applaud you if you have but I don't think many do. Like the Chinese, I think they can be an insular, narrow-minded and zenophobic race. But maybe they have good reason to be so when you consider that a fair proportion of visitors to their country come there solely to drink, party and fornicate. Consider how you would feel if the boot was on the other foot and Thai's were visiting en masse to UK, Germany or USA for the same purpose. Outraged I would imagine. So maybe after all they are much more tolerant than they are given credit for. Depends on your degree of cynicism, I guess.
Quite an accurate assessment.
1/ I'm not out to bash Farang, except to criticize bad behaviour of visitors in general. It's not, afterall the exclusive domain of Farang, as other groups are at times guilty, as well. Terry Terrier is largely correct. I think that incidents of bad behaviour are comparatively rare, if one considers the number of visitors here. But, because these incidents are well-publicized, they take on a disproportionate significance.
2/ While there was a time when I cared about what Thais thought, I care much less now, even though I'm in a position where this is actually a job requirement. It's a no win situation and not worth the effort.
3/ I do have more cache in polite Thai society than most Farang, but only so much, because as a Farang, I could never be fully accepted.
Your view of Thais as insular and xenophobic is dead on. This attitude is a result of conditioning in their educuation system and has only been strengthened by Farang bad behaviour and also the visible and well-publicized Farang involvement in the P4P industry. The latter, of course illustrates Thai hypocricy, given that they created the industry and profit from it.
Terry Terrier
08-17-08, 03:47
Your view of Thais as insular and xenophobic is dead on. This attitude is a result of conditioning in their educuation system and has only been strengthened by Farang bad behaviour and also the visible and well-publicized Farang involvement in the P4P industry. The latter, of course illustrates Thai hypocricy, given that they created the industry and profit from it.
And also that they enjoy the pleasures of some of the best fruits from it as well.
BTW, I just saw a new Thai movie last weekend in which the Thais were talking about "Negroes". I was quite taken aback by the use of this word. But, it just goes to show how Thais think: that such an unacceptable word would be used in this day and age in movie subtitles says a lot about Thai sensibility. It will be interesting to see what happens if this movie is ever distributed internationally.
In beggers belief.
I am curious what was the topic of discussion in this movie discussing “Negros.” I had a good Thai friend from a rich family who hung out with me for one day after almost two years of chatting. All that day she made comments about my skin color “I have another black friend but he is not as dark as you.” She made comments like “They think I am your girlfriend” The stares we got from people on the street were unbelievable after that one day she never hung out with me again. She just made excuse after excuse until she disappeared. I lost a lot of respect for Thailand and its people after that. I now look at them with disdain I am respectful but firm. I take the country for what its worth. Carry out my business and move on.
Old Thai Hand
08-19-08, 10:07
I am curious what was the topic of discussion in this movie discussing “Negros.” I had a good Thai friend from a rich family who hung out with me for one day after almost two years of chatting. All that day she made comments about my skin color “I have another black friend but he is not as dark as you.” She made comments like “They think I am your girlfriend” The stares we got from people on the street were unbelievable after that one day she never hung out with me again. She just made excuse after excuse until she disappeared. I lost a lot of respect for Thailand and its people after that. I now look at them with disdain I am respectful but firm. I take the country for what its worth. Carry out my business and move on.
It's awhile ago. But, I think the context was something to do with sports and hip-hop music, if I remember. It ran along the lines of..."Negroes are good at sports, hip-hop..." something like that. pretty standard, but still shocking to me.
Hi,
First, I was surprised to see this thread, but is probably the best place for this question.
I am travelling to Bangkok late sept.
My question is about how I will be treated and should I avoid any places.
I am a British Born Indian.
Apart from the way my face looks, everything else is British.
I have travelled to many countries, so know that I different reactions where ever I go.
I find that in most places, so long as you are not pushy and act with respect, it does not take long for people to accept you as you are.
I have been introduced to the Term Ferang and I guess that makes me one.
TSL
Lover Boy #2
09-01-08, 07:48
Hi,
First, I was surprised to see this thread, but is probably the best place for this question.
I am travelling to Bangkok late sept.
My question is about how I will be treated and should I avoid any places.
I am a British Born Indian.
Apart from the way my face looks, everything else is British.
I have travelled to many countries, so know that I different reactions where ever I go.
I find that in most places, so long as you are not pushy and act with respect, it does not take long for people to accept you as you are.
I have been introduced to the Term Ferang and I guess that makes me one.
TSL
You will be fine.....but you will be either a "farang" or a "visitor"...so remember that a fistful of Baht (walking ATM) makes everyone very happy, happy!!
Hi,
First, I was surprised to see this thread, but is probably the best place for this question.
I am travelling to Bangkok late sept.
My question is about how I will be treated and should I avoid any places.
I am a British Born Indian.
Apart from the way my face looks, everything else is British.
I have travelled to many countries, so know that I different reactions where ever I go.
I find that in most places, so long as you are not pushy and act with respect, it does not take long for people to accept you as you are.
I have been introduced to the Term Ferang and I guess that makes me one.
TSL
Put those natural negotiating skills that folks from the subcontinent are born with to work and NEVER NEVER pay too much for the booty!!! Don't fall for the girl's cabfare request in Bangkok. They usually head right back to their perch anyway. Just shrug at the Sob stories they tell to extract more money. Tell them you will be buying ladies drinks after the services are performed at the bar, but it helps to order one beer and scope the girls out. ALWAYS ask how much beverages, food, massages, manicures, haircuts, and other services are up front. Will she buff the knob? With or without a bag? It is like a job interview. If you jump in a cab don't put your feet in and close the door until the cabbie has the meter running. If the pooying ain't out of the shower in 10 minutes bang on the door and tell her to get to work. Never let them take control. Don't talk about religion, politics or Royalty (especially Royalty).
They have a general contempt for all foreigners, but your chances of being accepted by Thai society (husband of upper class Thai) are far greater than a European or American. Many of the successful businesses are owned by people from India, Nepal or Bangalis.
Terry Terrier
09-01-08, 23:56
Hi,
First, I was surprised to see this thread, but is probably the best place for this question.
I am travelling to Bangkok late sept.
My question is about how I will be treated and should I avoid any places.
I am a British Born Indian.
Apart from the way my face looks, everything else is British.
I have travelled to many countries, so know that I different reactions where ever I go.
I find that in most places, so long as you are not pushy and act with respect, it does not take long for people to accept you as you are.
I have been introduced to the Term Ferang and I guess that makes me one.
TSL
As has been mentioned by others, it's about (1) you spending your money freely (2) you being polite with the locals in all situations.
If your racial background worries you, the Majestic Suites is Indian-owned and had some Indian front-of-house staff when I stayed there (the more upmarket Majestic Grande is owned by the same family, but I've never stayed there so don't know the setup). The Royal Asia Lodge at the bottom of Soi 8 is owned by a different Indian family, some of whom (including a rather aloof daughter) worked the front-of-house when I stayed there.
If you have ISG Forum private messaging privileges, I'm sure Duniawala (who is of Indian ethnicity and is a seasoned visitor to Thailand) won't mind me suggesting you fire a PM to him.
Cunning Stunt
09-02-08, 03:04
I have been introduced to the Term Ferang and I guess that makes me one.
TSL
Hi TSL, You will not generally be referred to as a farang (or falang) as that is the term reserved for a white visitor. You may, however, hear yourself being
referred to as kaek or khak which is the Thai word for an Indian.
There is a large, largely integrated Thai Indian community in Bangkok largely centred around the Yommarat area where they appear to have the garment business all stitched up (sorry :().
Although skin colour has a great status meaning to Thais (including amongst themselves where traditionally field workers have the darkest skins) it is unlikely you will encounter any direct discrimination. Although saying that there are growing numbers of newly affluent visitors arriving from the sub-continent and largely heading for Pattaya. They have seemed to have quickly garnered a reputation, amongst the girls, for being rude, cheap and boorish. But I'm sure that if you are polite, generous and unpushy, you will do just fine. GH
Old Thai Hand
09-02-08, 04:27
as kaek or khak which is the Thai word for an Indian. GH
Khaek actually means "guest".
It doesn't just refer to Indians, but anyone who looks swarthy and who isn't black. Arabs, of course and even people from the Mediterranean are sometimes mistakenly called khaek.
Hi,
First, I was surprised to see this thread, but is probably the best place for this question.
I am travelling to Bangkok late sept.
My question is about how I will be treated and should I avoid any places.
I am a British Born Indian.
Apart from the way my face looks, everything else is British.
I have travelled to many countries, so know that I different reactions where ever I go.
I find that in most places, so long as you are not pushy and act with respect, it does not take long for people to accept you as you are.
I have been introduced to the Term Ferang and I guess that makes me one.
TSL
TS don’t let these guys fool you Thailand is a white man’s playground. If you are just going there to fuck hookers then it is a great place for anyone. But if you are looking for the quote and quote good-looking decent women being an Indian you can forget it. Those Indians running the tailor shops for the most part are scorned by the Thais and tourist alike. I had one Indian tailor come out try to sale me a damn suit while I was on my motorcycle in Pattaya at the red light in traffic can you say what the fuck?
Lover Boy #2
09-02-08, 05:46
Khaek actually means "guest".
It doesn't just refer to Indians, but anyone who looks swarthy and who isn't black. Arabs, of course and even people from the Mediterranean are sometimes mistakenly called khaek.That's right...in my post below I referred to the word as "visitor", it is "guest" as stated by OTH. But, can you imagine being a third or fourth generation Indian (citizen of Thailand) and having a homeless person (Thai) refer to you as a "guest"?
Oh boy
Good and bad examples.
I'm all booked up now, but I'm more concerned about what is on the news about Bangkok, than how I might be looked at.
From my side, I only go for the GFE, and as a result I have to be the BFE, so I hope that is treated with mutual respect.
Thanks for the honest advice guys.
TS
Satrai2000
09-09-08, 21:25
Oh boy
Good and bad examples.
I'm all booked up now, but I'm more concerned about what is on the news about Bangkok, than how I might be looked at.
From my side, I only go for the GFE, and as a result I have to be the BFE, so I hope that is treated with mutual respect.
Thanks for the honest advice guys.
TSDon't worry about this news. It's not the first time that Thailand has these kind of problems. Tourists always keep flocking to Thailand. Just avoid particular places.
A question: what is your age? Consider going as a trader/businessman and forget about false GFE's.
As a holiday-destination Thailand has much more to offer in comparison with most other countries (well, that is MHO...)
Don't worry about this news. It's not the first time that Thailand has these kind of problems. Tourists always keep flocking to Thailand. Just avoid particular places.
A question: what is your age? Consider going as a trader/businessman and forget about false GFE's.
As a holiday-destination Thailand has much more to offer in comparison with most other countries (well, that is MHO...)Hi,
Im 40,
what do you mean about being a trader or businessman?
I was intending to always be smart and presentable, if that is what you mean.
TSL
Terry Terrier
09-14-08, 00:11
TS,
As a smart and clean guy you will not have too many problems unless you create them yourself: If you stay relaxed with the girls; smile a lot; haggle firmly, politely but not excessively; you will get along fine. The racism problems alluded to are only really noticeable to people who live there (isn't that the same pretty much everywhere?). If you are unlucky enough to encounter any sort of bad experience in a bar/restaurant during your visit, just politely walk away. There are many other establishments nearby which will accept your spending power much more politely.
Now, stop worrying, and go have the time of your life :).
Oh boy
Good and bad examples.
I'm all booked up now, but I'm more concerned about what is on the news about Bangkok, than how I might be looked at.
From my side, I only go for the GFE, and as a result I have to be the BFE, so I hope that is treated with mutual respect.
Thanks for the honest advice guys.
TS
TS, quite a few Indian born Britishers visit LOS and have met a few. They have been quite the gentlemen as compared to a lot (not all) white drunks who come from there.
Conversely, a lot of Indians from India visit LOS due to the cheap airfares promoted by Thai Airways. A majority of them are rude, stinking and el cheapos.
For a first time visitor, please do dress well, use colognes and perfumes, and act as a gentlemen. If you do become a frequent visitor, you will find that the good attitude will pay off in big returns.
Be polite and courteous even if you don't like the TG who is pushing herself in your face. If you like a certain girl, treat her well. A few extra bahts as tips will get you more mileage. I am not saying to overpay, but pay the going rate and tip only if you are happy.
Short time as it is called, will vary from a quick half hour to a few hours, depending on how well you get along with her. My short time with a great girl (well a woman really) I know is about 3-4 hours. Check the forum for current rates. Long time also varies between her getting up and leaving at the crack of dawn or to late afternoon.
You can have great sex from nymphos to starfishes. You will have hits and misses. Don't let a bad experience deter you. You will always find the one you would like to spend with, if you have the patience.
As a first time visitor, I would suggest two places you can stay in. These are my preferences, and others may disagree.
One is Livingstone's Lodge on Soi 33. See his thread "Thailand - Giotto's Forum ". It is great boutique hotel with a friendly staff and a great owner. The hotel is in a quiet neighborhood and his Sports Bar has some great women. Dr. G can provide you with all the local info. He is usually down at breakfast around 10-11 am sitting with his laptop checking his stock market value.
There are good massage places in walking distance. The Akane, Ceffle, Sazanka, and Love Teen Massage to name a few. Sports Bar in his hotel with great girls.
The other place which I also frequent is The Ruamchitt Plaza Hotel. The upgraded rooms are quite nice at 1600 Bahts (reserve thru Asiatravel. com). The reason I like this place is more central. The Thermae Coffee shop is in it's basement. A freelancer bar, where you can get lucky sometimes to find gems. My last visit a week ago, I found quite a few now getting jaded with Japanese and have started to go back being normal. Best time is around 10-11 p.m. and stand on the steps outside the front door of the hotel. You can go inside. The rear stairs lead you upto the hotel lobby.
This is a great place if you want to do multiple girls the same night. From basement go straight up to the room, finish the deed and come down again to get the next one. Don't be surprised to see the girl you just left. They also have similar agendas. Just give her a smile.
There is also a bar with pool tables on the ground floor called Bush Garden. Nice relaxing place. Free wifi at the lobby level. Same with Livingstone but wifi is also available in their rooms.
Ruamchitt being centrally located is close to Cowboy on one end and Nana Plaza on the other. Lots of places to eat from McDonald's to Indian to Italian etc. etc.
So have a good time and don't worry about being called farangs or khaeks or whatever. Being from London, you know it all. Bottom line: Courtsey and money talks.
Duni
Terry Terrier
09-15-08, 00:14
TS, quite a few Indian born Britishers visit LOS and have met a few. They have been quite the gentlemen as compared to a lot (not all) white drunks who come from there.
Also, if you want to avoid aggressive white German drunks, stay away from Hua Hin. And if you don't like extremely mild-mannered white Scandinavian drunks, stay away from Kao Lak and northern Phuket. And if you don't like white Murcans...... . On the other hand, you could just bring your good self and your good manners and have a great time without even noticing all the prejudice :).
NicFrenchy
09-15-08, 03:55
Also, if you want to avoid aggressive white German drunks, stay away from Hua Hin.
Actually, there are loads of Scandinavians in HuaHin too.
Actually, there are loads of Scandinavians in HuaHin too.
Actually, I was in Hua Hin a few weeks ago for a couple of days. Just stayed at this small resort, did not venture out to the town and avoided all the drunks.:)
Shankhar Shans
09-17-08, 15:58
TS,
As a smart and clean guy you will not have too many problems unless you create them yourself: If you stay relaxed with the girls; smile a lot; haggle firmly, politely but not excessively; you will get along fine. The racism problems alluded to are only really noticeable to people who live there (isn't that the same pretty much everywhere?). If you are unlucky enough to encounter any sort of bad experience in a bar/restaurant during your visit, just politely walk away. There are many other establishments nearby which will accept your spending power much more politely.
Now, stop worrying, and go have the time of your life :).I think that can work worldwide not only in Thai.
Tslondon,
I am a British of indian origin. I am flying off to Bangkok for my third visit on Wednesday.
I can honestly say I have never faced any racism I BKK. Infact I have found the locals to be nothing but polite and courteous.
Just like anywhere else, if you treat people with respect, you will receive respect. If your a drunken lout, then expect the cold shoulder.
I'm sure you'll have a fab time. If your in BKK during 25th Sept. 1st Oct your more than welcome to join me for a beer at Stable Lodge on soi 8.
Tslondon,
I am a British of indian origin. I am flying off to Bangkok for my third visit on Wednesday.
I can honestly say I have never faced any racism I BKK. Infact I have found the locals to be nothing but polite and courteous.
Just like anywhere else, if you treat people with respect, you will receive respect. If your a drunken lout, then expect the cold shoulder.
I'm sure you'll have a fab time. If your in BKK during 25th Sept. 1st Oct your more than welcome to join me for a beer at Stable Lodge on soi 8.
Some people don’t notice when they being treated badly. If your interactions have only been with bar girls well that speaks volumes. They don’t like dark skin either but they will jump through a ring of fire like a terrorist training camp when baht is involved.
Some people don’t notice when they being treated badly. If your interactions have only been with bar girls well that speaks volumes. They don’t like dark skin either but they will jump through a ring of fire like a terrorist training camp when baht is involved.I am very light-skinned, this may have been a factor in my lack of racist encounters. However my interaction with the locals was not restricted to bar-girls. I made the effort to learn enough of the language to make polite small talk and be generally pleasant to the people i met, which i believe was appreciated.
No doubt flashing a wad of baht helps in garnering a smile, but the fact that i'm young, fit and (without blowing my own trumpet) am quite good looking certainly plays a part in attracting a little attention.
I'm sure there are many racist thais, but in propertion i doubt there are any more racist thais than racist yorkshireman.
TSLondon, go and enjoy yourself....and don't forget to tell us all about it.
I am very light-skinned, this may have been a factor in my lack of racist encounters. However my interaction with the locals was not restricted to bar-girls. I made the effort to learn enough of the language to make polite small talk and be generally pleasant to the people i met, which i believe was appreciated.
No doubt flashing a wad of baht helps in garnering a smile, but the fact that i'm young, fit and (without blowing my own trumpet) am quite good looking certainly plays a part in attracting a little attention.
I'm sure there are many racist thais, but in propertion i doubt there are any more racist thais than racist yorkshireman.
TSLondon, go and enjoy yourself....and don't forget to tell us all about it.
Ok so basically you don’t fit the description of the “typical Indian.”
TS go and have a good time I will be in town in two weeks if you are still around hit me on the hitter.... (thats slang for PM me bruh....)
Ok so basically you don’t fit the description of the “typical Indian.”
TS go and have a good time I will be in town in two weeks if you are still around hit me on the hitter.... (thats slang for PM me bruh....)Well, I'm pretty much "typical" when it comes to the Indians I know, and I happen to know quite a few!
Once again TS you know where to find me if you need a friendly face. Daddy, you are also more than welcome to join me for a cold one.
If I don't catch you guys, have a great time.
Satrai2000
09-22-08, 19:58
Ok so basically you don’t fit the description of the “typical Indian.”
TS go and have a good time I will be in town in two weeks if you are still around hit me on the hitter.... (thats slang for PM me bruh....)What is this description of the "typical Indian"?
I met dumbo's in Thailand who mistook me for an Israeli or Italian.
They just don't seem to get that the subcontinent with over 1 billion people has a larger diversity of people/looks than their relatively tiny Kingdom (no offense meant here).
Yes, and in our eastern states there are even people that resemble Thais.lol.
M P Lurker
09-22-08, 22:02
I think that racism is a belief that all people from a country or ethnic origin are the same and we cannot like a person from that country because he/she has to be put in a labelled category.
Now most of us has certain preconceived ideas of what characteristics are often found in a certain race but while I don't think this is exactly racism others may think it is.
I would not consider it safe to go to certain places on earth, e.g. the Afganistan/Pakistan border, but I allow for the fact that many people living in these areas may be perfectly nice people.
Today four Indians get into the skytrain and I am standing next to them. The dark colour of their skin or looks do not bother me at all. In fact i have a close work mate back in Australia that is Indian.
But then something happens that is not unusal for people from many countries outside of Thailand including westerners (it just happened to be Indians today).
Their body odour (or could have been just one of them) wafted over and irritated my very sensitive nostrils. I and most Thais are just not used to being with these odours.
So I gradually move away to escape this irritating stink. Some may think I exaggerate but I am sensitive to smells. I rarely have problems with Thais having much body odor but am acutely aware that non-East-Asians can have body odours that are not nice to Thais.
So super-fastidious cleanliness and frequent showering to get rid of underarm odours, mouth odours, etc. is very important in this Country.
This could be a significant factor in some predudices.
I hear that Indians have a reputation for being "Cheap Charlie" but I am rarely in a postion to be able to sample enough things to say whether this is true or not.
I am not sure whether skin colour is really the biggest part of it or not. I probably have predudices against fanatics of religions with beliefs that are very strange to me. But allow that some of the people in a particular religion can be good people even if misguided.
I would say Thais are predudiced against Vietnamese. This cannot be skin colour based, but maybe Vietnamese predudice is not so strong as for some other countries.
I have a female friend (GF of another Aussie) iwho is black and she calls herself black. Its no big deal even though her skin is not exactly black.
If she has got some body odour, I can tell her and she will fix it. She seemed to do quite well with mixing with Thais (perhaps not all) but she does make extra special efforts with being clean and odour free.
So I think that predudices can be over come with many Thais by addressing some of the pre-conceived problems.
So dress well, keep odour free, don't be too disrespectable of local customs or people, don't look for trouble.
I know that I fail the politeness standard here in Thailand at times. I am also aware of occasions when I could smell bad so closely check armpits and other things regularly. So be aware of what behaviour will not look acceptable to a Thai.
I recently heard that Italians have a reputation for smelly crotch areas, so beware. Australians and English have a reputation for bad drunken behaviour.
So be aware and be different to the negative preconceptions.
But if I am not receiving huge amounts of predudice of a negative sense, can I really understand?
LittleBigMan
09-22-08, 23:53
M.L.
Oh no, here we go again with the B.O.!
LBM
So I think that predudices can be over come with many Thais by addressing some of the pre-conceived problems.
So dress well,........
I hear guys all the time say you should dress nice in Thailand. Well I am in my 20s black American and I am a hip hoper what that means baggy jeans, baggy t-shit, diamond and platinum jewelry. Most of my clothes though are high fashion Gucci etc…last time I was in Bangkok I wanted to do an experiment I wore a nice Lacoste collared shirt and slacks and easy sneakers to see how they would react with me walking around with this Uni student. They stared at us like hell everywhere we went. She was shocked at the amount of people staring at us in the mall and on the streets. It seemed the business casual look was ineffective and seems I get more admiration when I have on all the bling and baggy clothes I guess Thais watch MTV too.
M P Lurker
09-23-08, 04:12
I hear guys all the time say you should dress nice in Thailand. Well I am in my 20s black American and I am a hip hoper what that means baggy jeans, baggy t-shit, diamond and platinum jewelry. Most of my clothes though are high fashion Gucci etc…last time I was in Bangkok I wanted to do an experiment I wore a nice Lacoste collared shirt and slacks and easy sneakers to see how they would react with me walking around with this Uni student. They stared at us like hell everywhere we went. She was shocked at the amount of people staring at us in the mall and on the streets. It seemed the business casual look was ineffective and seems I get more admiration when I have on all the bling and baggy clothes I guess Thais watch MTV too.
My GF likes trendy style. I of course no style whatsoever.
Old Thai Hand
09-23-08, 04:40
I hear guys all the time say you should dress nice in Thailand. Well I am in my 20s black American and I am a hip hoper what that means baggy jeans, baggy t-shit, diamond and platinum jewelry. Most of my clothes though are high fashion Gucci etc…last time I was in Bangkok I wanted to do an experiment I wore a nice Lacoste collared shirt and slacks and easy sneakers to see how they would react with me walking around with this Uni student. They stared at us like hell everywhere we went. She was shocked at the amount of people staring at us in the mall and on the streets. It seemed the business casual look was ineffective and seems I get more admiration when I have on all the bling and baggy clothes I guess Thais watch MTV too.
They were staring at you because you are black and with a TG: not because of what you were wearing. You could have been wearing a business suit and they would have stared. Was the girl wearing her uniform? If so, that would increase the stares to glares, exponentially. The stares were simply because a black man and TG is not a sight commonly witnessed by Thai people (or approved of, for that matter). It must have shocked and intrigued them, I'm sure. The girl is very brave to be seen with you.
Every guy in public with a TG, unless he's Thai is going to be stared at by the locals. Farang fare better than any other outsider, but not by much, especially if the age difference is great, and/or the girl appears to be an obvious BG. I recently saw a young Farang guy at Emporium, your age and dressed in jeans and T-shirt walking with with a uni student in uniform. Everyone (including me) stared at the two of them. Even now with all the outsiders in the country, it's not something that Thais generally are used to seeing, or in fact want to see.
The over-riding mindset in this country is "Thailand for Thai people". If they "had there druthers", there would be no foreigners of any kind in this country. If asked this, they would deny it. But, one needs to listen to Thais speak among themselves about these things, watch Thai TV and follow the Thai media to get the real picture.
BTW. Hip-hop fashion is generally not overly popular here and represents a fringe culture even among teenagers. The music has gained popularity, with the advent of Thai hip-hoppers like Joey Boy and Titanium, but not the fashion, except in a toned-down way. 'Bling' is definitely not something you would see here (except for gold chains and Buddha amulets, of course).
My GF is really into hip-hop music. But, when she goes to hip-hop clubs like Slim at RCA to dance, she dresses more Japanese teen-style than anything else, as do her friends.
BTW. Hip-hop fashion is generally not overly popular here and represents a fringe culture even among teenagers. The music has gained popularity, with the advent of Thai hip-hoppers like Joey Boy and Titanium, but not the fashion, except in a toned-down way. 'Bling' is definitely not something you would see here (except for gold chains and Buddha amulets, of course).....
Thanks for the info. I checked the guy out on YouTube. He is definitely a bonafide hip hop head. All the criteria is in place baggy clothes, jewelry and last but not least sexy ass ladies in his videos. I can’t understand a word he is saying (no desire to learn Thai) but the melodies or as we call them in hip hop circles the beats are illy (slang for great) I think he has some western (black) influence or assistance.
Old Thai Hand
09-23-08, 12:07
Thanks for the info. I checked the guy out on YouTube. He is definitely a bonafide hip hop head. All the criteria is in place baggy clothes, jewelry and last but not least sexy ass ladies in his videos. I can’t understand a word he is saying (no desire to learn Thai) but the melodies or as we call them in hip hop circles the beats are illy (slang for great) I think he has some western (black) influence or assistance.
Well, Daddy, since you're interested...
He was in the States for awhile, both in NY and LA working with hip hop artists there to hone his skills. You should also check out Thaitanium (not Titanium as I groggily mis-spelled it, this morning), who worked in NY for awhile, as well before returning to Thailand. These guys are quite "illy", too and probably more hard-core than Joey Boy. They cleverly mix Thai and English together in their work.
check this out...
http://www.imeem.com/ewancluckie/playlist/Nceh2H87/joey_boy_vs_thaitanium_thai_hip_hop_music_playlist/
Since this is the racism thread and we're on the music topic...
Veteran Thai nationalist singer/song-writer and seller of Carabao Daeng power drink, Aed Carabao is decidedly anti-Farang.
His most famous, not-so-subtle, anti-everyone who isn't Thai rant was in the well known war-cry, "Khon Thai reu bplào" (Are you Thai, or not?) in Beer Chang commercials. The commercials begin with Aed pumping his fist into the air with the famous Carabao thumb and little finger raised while he shouts this rant, followed immediately by a shot of some dumb-looking Farang tourists shaking their heads "No".
The message was very clearly understood by all Thais - Thais good, Farang not (and stupid, to boot).
Well, Daddy, since you're interested...
He was in the States for awhile, both in NY and LA working with hip hop artists there to hone his skills. You should also check out Thaitanium (not Titanium as I groggily mis-spelled it, this morning), who worked in NY for awhile, as well before returning to Thailand. These guys are quite "illy", too and probably more hard-core than Joey Boy. They cleverly mix Thai and English together in their work.
check this out...
http://www.imeem.com/ewancluckie/playlist/Nceh2H87/joey_boy_vs_thaitanium_thai_hip_hop_music_playlist/
Since this is the racism thread and we're on the music topic...
Veteran Thai nationalist singer/song-writer and seller of Carabao Daeng power drink, Aed Carabao is decidedly anti-Farang.
His most famous, not-so-subtle, anti-everyone who isn't Thai rant was in the well known war-cry, "Khon Thai reu bplào" (Are you Thai, or not?) in Beer Chang commercials. The commercials begin with Aed pumping his fist into the air with the famous Carabao thumb and little finger raised while he shouts this rant, followed immediately by a shot of some dumb-looking Farang tourists shaking their heads "No".
The message was very clearly understood by all Thais - Thais good, Farang not (and stupid, to boot).
Wow nationalistic Thai rappers spewing anti-foreigner sentiment. In PI where I live an act like this would be unthinkable. Well it seems Thais have really drawn a line in the sand in how they feel about foreigners but I have ask why? Why the hate? Don’t they understand tourist and the sex trade are keeping their country from sinking into a financial abyss?
What have foreigners done to Thais? I seen this anti-foreigner sentiment in Japan but I understood it. They blamed foreigners for AIDs and the weakening of Japan might. They say foreigners are taking their women LOL and oh don’t forget the Atom bomb they seem to think they were completely innocent in that war. I would watch Japanese cars ride up and down the street just spewing anti-foreigner shit and no one would say anything. I can’t speak Japanese but my girlfriend was a reliable translator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-LTBjs9RY8
Old Thai Hand
09-23-08, 15:30
Wow nationalistic Thai rappers spewing anti-foreigner sentiment. In PI where I live an act like this would be unthinkable. Well it seems Thais have really drawn a line in the sand in how they feel about foreigners but I have ask why? Why the hate? Don’t they understand tourist and the sex trade are keeping their country from sinking into a financial abyss?
What have foreigners done to Thais? I seen this anti-foreigner sentiment in Japan but I understood it. They blamed foreigners for AIDs and the weakening of Japan might. They say foreigners are taking their women LOL and oh don’t forget the Atom bomb they seem to think they were completely innocent in that war. I would watch Japanese cars ride up and down the street just spewing anti-foreigner shit and no one would say anything. I can’t speak Japanese but my girlfriend was a reliable translator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-LTBjs9RY8
Aed Carabao isn't a rapper. His group sings traditional Thai country music called "Songs for Life". While not exactly right wing (he supports the under-classes, democracy, the tearing down of the Thai establishment etc.), he and people who follow his type of music tend to favour a Thailand devoid of outside influences. You could consider him the equivalent of a Thai "good ol' boy" mixed with country music activist, Willie Nelson.
To answer your question would require a considerably long and complex dissertation about Thai history and culture. While I agree that tourism is key to a healthy economy here, I doubt the foreign sex industry disappearing would have the negative impact, you suggest. While some Thais benefit from the very visible foreign sex industry, the negative impact that it has had on the image of the country has many Thais upset. It's complete hypocricy of course. But, the Thais are quite fond of blaming foreign influence for all manner of things they perceive have gone wrong in their culture, from the freedom, attitudes and fashion of the younger generation to politics and economic issues.
I encounter this hostility every day in my job as a university professor in an international program. Many Thai faculty, especially the older ones believe that foreign faculty on Thai campuses pose a threat to traditional Thai values. Our students (who are Thai, as well) are criticized for being "too open" and having "too much freedom" which is believed to be having a negative influence on Thai students in traditional Thai programs. Even after nearly 3 years in my current job, I feel no more comfortable entering the teachers' lounge now, than I did on my first day there. You could cut the air with a knife, whenever any Farang enter the room. All the Farang faculty sit together separate from the Thais because we are very much not welcome to sit with the Thais. They never talk to us. We're stared at constantly, anywhere we go, even in our own faculty. If you let it, it can really get to you, after awhile.
Aed Carabao isn't a rapper. His group sings traditional Thai country music called "Songs for Life". While not exactly right wing (he supports the under-classes, democracy, the tearing down of the Thai establishment etc.), he and people who follow his type of music tend to favour a Thailand devoid of outside influences. You could consider him the equivalent of a Thai "good ol' boy" mixed with country music activist, Willie Nelson.
To answer your question would require a considerably long and complex dissertation about Thai history and culture. While I agree that tourism is key to a healthy economy here, I doubt the foreign sex industry disappearing would have the negative impact, you suggest. While some Thais benefit from the very visible foreign sex industry, the negative impact that it has had on the image of the country has many Thais upset. It's complete hypocricy of course. But, the Thais are quite fond of blaming foreign influence for all manner of things they perceive have gone wrong in their culture, from the freedom, attitudes and fashion of the younger generation to politics and economic issues.
I encounter this hostility every day in my job as a university professor in an international program. Many Thai faculty, especially the older ones believe that foreign faculty on Thai campuses pose a threat to traditional Thai values. Our students (who are Thai, as well) are criticized for being "too open" and having "too much freedom" which is believed to be having a negative influence on Thai students in traditional Thai programs. Even after nearly 3 years in my current job, I feel no more comfortable entering the teachers' lounge now, than I did on my first day there. You could cut the air with a knife, whenever any Farang enter the room. All the Farang faculty sit together separate from the Thais because we are very much not welcome to sit with the Thais. They never talk to us. We're stared at constantly, anywhere we go, even in our own faculty. If you let it, it can really get to you, after awhile.
I thought white guys were like God in Thailand. Guess I don't know shit. :(
...even after nearly 3 years in my current job, i feel no more comfortable entering the teachers' lounge now, than i did on my first day there. you could cut the air with a knife, whenever any farang enter the room. all the farang faculty sit together separate from the thais because we are very much not welcome to sit with the thais. they never talk to us. we're stared at constantly, anywhere we go, even in our own faculty. if you let it, it can really get to you, after awhile.
oth: sounds like you choose to put up with this condescending treatment from your professional peers because you like the warm weather and young women.
is there a poignant expression in paasa thai for you feeling elements of futility and frustration in your position?
or, is it just better, and culturally more appropriate (pc), to express this in english (e.g., "my job sucks")?
Satrai2000
09-23-08, 21:18
...I encounter this hostility every day in my job as a university professor in an international program. Many Thai faculty, especially the older ones believe that foreign faculty on Thai campuses pose a threat to traditional Thai values. Our students (who are Thai, as well) are criticized for being "too open" and having "too much freedom" which is believed to be having a negative influence on Thai students in traditional Thai programs. Even after nearly 3 years in my current job, I feel no more comfortable entering the teachers' lounge now, than I did on my first day there. You could cut the air with a knife, whenever any Farang enter the room. All the Farang faculty sit together separate from the Thais because we are very much not welcome to sit with the Thais. They never talk to us. We're stared at constantly, anywhere we go, even in our own faculty. If you let it, it can really get to you, after awhile.This is a very sad thing, bro! I did not expect this kind of thing to happen in Thailand.
I worked in a few western countries like Belgium and Netherlands and everybody always works, sits, laughs together; westerners, Asians, everyone.
Even in my homecountry, which is very class-oriented, it's not as bad as what you describe. Foreign specialists are treated with respect.
Old Thai Hand
09-24-08, 01:06
oth: sounds like you choose to put up with this condescending treatment from your professional peers because you like the warm weather and young women.
is there a poignant expression in paasa thai for you feeling elements of futility and frustration in your position?
or, is it just better, and culturally more appropriate (pc), to express this in english (e.g., "my job sucks")?
ironically, my job doesn't suck. i'm managed to finally become immune to these people because i'm older than most of them, have far more experience and knowledge than most of them and anyway, they don't directly impact on what i do, because they are not part of my program. basically, i just avoid and/or ignore the narrow-minded, insecure little fuckers. i make 5 times their salary, am respected by my farang peers and most importantly by our new dean, who despite being old-school thai is cool enough and has enough of a world view to see beyond the end of his nose.
a few years ago, i used to be overly concerned about what thais thought and how they viewed me (and farang in general). now i don't care. generally, i've now adopted the attitude that they need me more than i need them. when the times comes that it's not viable anymore, which could be any day now, i'll just move on.
one thing to remember...
despite the general dislike of all foreigners, (especially westerners, indians, and arabs) which permeates the whole culture, the further down the thai hierarchy you go, the friendlier the people tend to become, which may have as much to do with the obsequious nature of thais as anything else. sadly, the people responsible for the tone of thai culture and xenophobic attitudes here (the hiso powers-that-be) are the least in touch with what is actually happening in the culture, especially with the lower classes and the younger generation.
Ironically, my job doesn't suck. I'm managed to finally become immune..
I'm happy for you that the job is worth the cold shoulder treatment you describe. I have worked for large, contentious government agencies so I do know what this is like.
One thing to remember...Despite the general dislike of all foreigners, (especially Westerners, Indians, and Arabs) which permeates the whole culture, the further down the Thai hierarchy you go, the friendlier the people tend to become, which may have as much to do with the obsequious nature of Thais as anything else. Sadly, the people responsible for the tone of Thai culture and attitudes here (the HiSo powers-that-be) are the least in touch with what is actually happening in the culture, especially with the lower classes and the younger generation.
LoSo people in many cultures tend to be more welcoming to foreigners and strangers. The Thais take this a little further (for a price) and provide their young ones for pleasure,
Terry Terrier
09-24-08, 01:49
LoSo people in many cultures tend to be more welcoming to foreigners and strangers. The Thais take this a little further (for a price) and provide their young ones for pleasure,
This comment is almost worthy of Jungle Bluebird! I would be very interested in seeing how these lower class organised prostitution rings work. OTH constantly tells us that the actual situation is the complete opposite of this: That the prostitutes are completely ostracised by their home communities. Isn't the truth always somewhere in the middle of these extreme opinions?
This comment is almost worthy of Jungle Bluebird! I would be very interested in seeing how these lower class organised prostitution rings work. OTH constantly tells us that the actual situation is the complete opposite of this: That the prostitutes are completely ostracised by their home communities. Isn't the truth always somewhere in the middle of these extreme opinions?
At universities all over the world there is a course requirement entitled Critical Thinking. Part of what is taught is to consider all aspects of a discussion prior to responding with a statement of understanding. Where was it ever implied in the previous post that there are "lower class organised prostitution rings?"
Whether a son or daughter decides to pursue work as a sex worker is normally, and primarily, their decision based on need and opportunity. While it may not be officially condoned, realistically, it is very difficult to keep a secret in a small Thai village. In the end, for a poor family or the poor sex worker, it is money that matters and the source is more often than not overlooked.
Lover Boy #2
09-24-08, 06:42
this comment is almost worthy of jungle bluebird! i would be very interested in seeing how these lower class organised prostitution rings work. oth constantly tells us that the actual situation is the complete opposite of this: that the prostitutes are completely ostracised by their home communities. isn't the truth always somewhere in the middle of these extreme opinions?
having visited small villages with girls (about 7 times) who were working at some level in the sex industry i would say that the feelings in the village are quite mixed. the parents, brothers/sisters and extended family seemed glad to see the girl and were happy about the money she was sending/bringing to the village. as you get further away from the house.....it seems that the feelings begin to change. childhood friends who are working hard in the fields or in a market are not so forgiving of the visitor. i would ask "what is her problem"?.....the girl would say...."she hate me because she know i work so-[CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134)-ni (prostitute). this happend almost exactly the same each time. there would be some old lady that owned a shop in town and she would be kind to the girl...but her daughter would not want to talk too long to the girl. when i asked why...the same response. so, it looks like the feelings are mixed.....and the persons getting the benefits want to continue with their benefits.....the outsiders...not getting the benefits look down at the working girl. this is thailand...money is god.
Old Thai Hand
09-24-08, 14:33
having visited small villages with girls (about 7 times) who were working at some level in the sex industry i would say that the feelings in the village are quite mixed. the parents, brothers/sisters and extended family seemed glad to see the girl and were happy about the money she was sending/bringing to the village. as you get further away from the house.....it seems that the feelings begin to change. childhood friends who are working hard in the fields or in a market are not so forgiving of the visitor. i would ask "what is her problem"?.....the girl would say...."she hate me because she know i work so-[CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134)-ni (prostitute). this happend almost exactly the same each time. there would be some old lady that owned a shop in town and she would be kind to the girl...but her daughter would not want to talk too long to the girl. when i asked why...the same response. so, it looks like the feelings are mixed.....and the persons getting the benefits want to continue with their benefits.....the outsiders...not getting the benefits look down at the working girl. this is thailand...money is god.
i think that this is a pretty good description of the true nature of attitudes - not b&w, but a gray area somewhere between the extremes.
Satrai2000
09-24-08, 19:53
...Despite the general dislike of all foreigners, (especially Westerners, Indians, and Arabs) ...So what did the Arabs do to the Thais that the latter dislike the former?
...the further down the Thai hierarchy you go, the friendlier the people tend to become, which may have as much to do with the obsequious nature of Thais as anything else...This is the case in many (Asian) countries I think. In my home-country I experience the same thing, as well as in Indonesia and Malaysia.
Old Thai Hand
09-25-08, 01:13
So what did the Arabs do to the Thais that the latter dislike the former?
In recent years, there have been a number of supposed scams perpetrated by Arabs in Thailand that received wide coverage in the Thai press. The most famous is the Saudi gem case. But, I think it also has to do with the Thai dislike of Muslims and also nothing more complex than the way Arabs look and act.
But, given the large number of Gulf Arabs now coming here, the Thais at least like their money and are going out of their way to cater to them because of it.
One result of this, I personally find distressing is that the Thais have drastically raised healthcare costs at international hospitals because they are aiming the business at Arabs, who can afford it. The healthcare may still be cheaper than in the Gulf, but it's become as expensive as the US.
Generally not so in Japan as groupthink, conformity, social acceptance, and protocol are order of the day in the Land of the Rising Sun. Japanese who want info on Critical Thinking must go to the local bookstore to buy self-study materials.
At universities all over the world there is a course requirement entitled Critical Thinking. Part of what is taught is to consider all aspects of a discussion prior to responding with a statement of understanding...
In recent years, there have been a number of supposed scams perpetrated by Arabs in Thailand that received wide coverage in the Thai press. The most famous is the Saudi gem case. But, I think it also has to do with the Thai dislike of Muslims and also nothing more complex than the way Arabs look and act.
But, given the large number of Gulf Arabs now coming here, the Thais at least like their money and are going out of their way to cater to them because of it.
One result of this, I personally find distressing is that the Thais have drastically raised healthcare costs at international hospitals because they are aiming the business at Arabs, who can afford it. The healthcare may still be cheaper than in the Gulf, but it's become as expensive as the US.
I paid 110$ for an office visit at Bumunigrad for a stomach ache. Absurd.
I am very light-skinned, this may have been a factor in my lack of racist encounters. However my interaction with the locals was not restricted to bar-girls. I made the effort to learn enough of the language to make polite small talk and be generally pleasant to the people i met, which i believe was appreciated.
No doubt flashing a wad of baht helps in garnering a smile, but the fact that i'm young, fit and (without blowing my own trumpet) am quite good looking certainly plays a part in attracting a little attention.
I'm sure there are many racist thais, but in propertion i doubt there are any more racist thais than racist yorkshireman.
TSLondon, go and enjoy yourself....and don't forget to tell us all about it.
I'm black but light skinned as my mother is white and am often perplexed by what it means to be black abroad. I have never considered myself to be anything other than black, but when I travel I am often not considered black. In Thailand when I say I am black they they that I am not. In EE it's somewhat the same. White people are cool and all, but I don't really feel them on the level that I do other brothas like myself.
Any russian chick that I mess with now needs to be Tartar or Jewish as they can feel what it's like to have the man fucking with them...they have some soul.
The funny thing is, they assume that black is bad while I have no such assumtions. I was sitting with the owner of Livinghton's Lodge a few months ago and he was saying what may be considered negative--but in his mind harmless-- things about blacks and how Thais don't like us..yadd yadda yadda. When I told him I was black, he said "not really."
I almost tossed a Russian ***** (in the FSU) out of a cab yesterday when she said that she didn't like "black niggers." Whose dick where you just sucking and who paid for those hooker boots I just bought you?
Anyway, I agree with you: Thais are cool to me and I have never hade any problems there..AT ALL.. They respect me as an American and as a man with money...that's good enough for me...I am not into Thai psych (Old Thai Hand) or Thai pussy like some of you cats are.
The over-riding mindset in this country is "Thailand for Thai people". If they "had there druthers", there would be no foreigners of any kind in this country. If asked this, they would deny it. But, one needs to listen to Thais speak among themselves about these things, watch Thai TV and follow the Thai media to get the real picture.
Ironically, time and again the most vehement anti-foreigner sentiments I hear are emitted by 2nd/3rd generation Chinese-Thais, rivaled only by what those same people say privately about the non-Chinese "Thais".
LittleBigMan
09-25-08, 21:02
Healthcare weighs heavy on me and I have and will continue doing research on my spare time to find out more about healthcare and insurance coverage in Thailand. The more I find out the more concerns I have!
With the 60 Minutes T.V. story a few years back on Bumrungrad the cost of paying for these improvements to these private hospitals like Bumrungrad and Pattaya/Bangkok are driving the cost up for everyone. In September of last years I visted Bumrungrad and pretended to be doing a Internet story for Expats who are living in Thailand and needing medical insurance and got a vip tour of the hospital. On that tour you should see the few floor above the food court that are setup specifically for tourist. There was a entired floor for yearly checkups and that floor was full. One should see the number of Arabs coming and going out of the place. For a procedure like a colonscope was between 23,000 and 28,000 baht. It was a meat market! The hospital even offers Freguent Flyer miles if you fly on Thai Airways. WTF!
The Pattaya/Bangkok hospital is patented after Bumrungrad. They now offer packages, like stay for 2 nights you get the 3rd for free! Last year I took my wife to check her Acid Reflex ( which I think half of the Thai population has ) the doctor wanted her to stay overnight. I questioned his recommendation to stay overnight since I have the problem myself. It has become nothing short of making a profit now for some of these private hospital. They are even making recommendation for procedures that patients don't even need. There are stories of Expats that had coverage for years being refused treatment and payment for procedures by their Insurance provider. With no consumer laws and oversight in Thailand there is no one to turn to!
Be a good consumer and beware. It is never what it seems! LBM
The funny thing is, they assume that black is bad while I have no such assumtions. I was sitting with the owner of Livinghton's Lodge a few months ago and he was saying what may be considered negative--but in his mind harmless-- things about blacks and how Thais don't like us..yadd yadda yadda. When I told him I was black, he said "not really."
The owner of Livingston Lodge said some negative things about blacks? Due tell. If this is true and you are 1/2 Black as you say how could you sit there and not knock his head off his shoulder?
...
The funny thing is, they assume that black is bad while I have no such assumtions. I was sitting with the owner of Livinghton's Lodge a few months ago and he was saying what may be considered negative--but in his mind harmless-- things about blacks and how Thais don't like us..yadd yadda yadda. When I told him I was black, he said "not really."
...
DirkDingy,
I am the owner of Livingstone's Lodge, and I am not aware that I am a racist, nor do I have any problems with black people. I also do not assume that "black is bad".
So, please tell us what I have said, to clarify the issue.
Giotto
DirkDingy,
I am the owner of Livingstone's Lodge, and I am not aware that I am a racist, nor do I have any problems with black people. I also do not assume that "black is bad".
So, please tell us what I have said, to clarify issue.
Giotto
A if it means anything Giotto I really didn’t believe what this guy was saying I watched him on other boards and I really think he is a bullshit artist and just lives to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) people off….I read your post over the last few months and talking racist bullshit just doesn’t seem like your style.
Lover Boy #2
09-27-08, 05:20
I'm black but light skinned as my mother is white and am often perplexed by what it means to be black abroad. I have never considered myself to be anything other than black, but when I travel I am often not considered black. In Thailand when I say I am black they they that I am not. In EE it's somewhat the same. White people are cool and all, but I don't really feel them on the level that I do other brothas like myself.
Any russian chick that I mess with now needs to be Tartar or Jewish as they can feel what it's like to have the man fucking with them...they have some soul.
The funny thing is, they assume that black is bad while I have no such assumtions. I was sitting with the owner of Livinghton's Lodge a few months ago and he was saying what may be considered negative--but in his mind harmless-- things about blacks and how Thais don't like us..yadd yadda yadda. When I told him I was black, he said "not really."
I almost tossed a Russian ***** (in the FSU) out of a cab yesterday when she said that she didn't like "black niggers." Whose dick where you just sucking and who paid for those hooker boots I just bought you?
Anyway, I agree with you: Thais are cool to me and I have never hade any problems there..AT ALL.. They respect me as an American and as a man with money...that's good enough for me...I am not into Thai psych (Old Thai Hand) or Thai pussy like some of you cats are.
The fact is....this stuff is better off just left alone.....but let me throw a little opinion here....... Thais (for the most part) are racist to the core.....it is part of them. As OTH has pointed out many times (and he has a good view of the pulse of this nation) the culture has many aspects that are unpleasant when brought to the surface. That surface might only show when it is two Thais speaking...or an argument breaks out and a girl goes with the "N" word because she is angry. I can tell you that many things have been said to me by females in Thailand regarding Black people (mostly from Africa as that is what they see the most)....and the comments were certainly not solicited by me...or the subject ever brought up by me......because I personally don't like the subject, don't give a shit.....and don't want to waste time in stupid talk. Face it...Thais don't like dark skin (this isn't a Negro thing....it is a skin tone thing)....look at Thai construction workers and the "wrap" they use to avoid getting darker. In a country where dark skin is looked down upon, they are going to throw a bad rap on Black people....especially a Farang. I am sure because of Hip Hop and some curiosity, on their part, of the Black penis....some guys don't see this upfront. But dance moves wear off and the penis curiosity thing wears off after a minute or so......so now they are left in a room with someone that has dark skin.....and that ain't good to them. If you have lighter colored skin.....but you consider yourself Black...it makes sense that they would not consider you Black....and then they love you longtime. The whole thing is a waste of time....probably best to just worry where the next wet end will come from than whether you are liked. Money is God in Thailand and everyone with money was created equal. Peace.
The owner of Livingston Lodge said some negative things about blacks? Due tell. If this is true and you are 1/2 Black as you say how could you sit there and not knock his head off his shoulder?
Giotto is good guy and is not a racist. He gets like 20 PMs a minute. Sorry for implying otherwise.
I can't remember exactly what he said, perhaps he was just saying the obvious that Thais may have an unflattering view of many black Africans because of their involvement with illicit activity.
My greater point was that many people operate from the assumption that black skin is bad when I do not. And, in many parts of the world where US conceptions of race are not in play, "being black" may depend on one's location. Didn't Sammy Sosa say that he wasn't black?
And I look black, like Grant Hill or Tony Parker.
Sorry for causing a problem. I really didn't mean to...and my girl was from Moldova not Uzbekistan:)
But once again, I love Thailand and have never had any problems there at all. The People are nice to to me and soemtimes go the extra mile for me with nothing in return.
It's ashame that Thai girls do absoutely nothing for me save the few eurasians and sugically enhanced ones at places like Santinka, Bed, and Spassos.
Giotto is good guy and is not a racist. He gets like 20 PMs a minute. Sorry for implying otherwise.
I can't remember exactly what he said, perhaps he was just saying the obvious that Thais may have an unflattering view of many black Africans because of their involvement with illicit activity.
...
DirkDingy,
Good, now I can sleep again :) ... and luckily I don't get 20 PMs a minute, but sometimes 20 PMs a day.
Its possible that I mentioned that Thais sometimes keep a certain distance towards black people (I really tried to find the right English words at the moment :) ) ... hopefully that doesn't make me a racist.
Hope to see you soon back here at Livingstone's - black or white, I don't care at all.
Giotto
The fact is....this stuff is better off just left alone.....but let me through a little opinion here....... Thais (for the most part) are racist to the core.....it is part of them. As OTH has pointed out many times (and he has a good view of the pulse of this nation) the culture has many aspects that are unpleasant when brought to the surface. That surface might only show when it is two Thais speaking...or an argument breaks out and a girl goes with the "N" word because she is angry. I can tell you that many things have been said to me by females in Thailand regarding Black people (mostly from Africa as that is what they see the most)....and the comments were certainly not solicited by me...or the subject ever brought up by me......because I personally don't like the subject, don't give a shit.....and don't want to waste time in stupid talk. Face it...Thais don't like dark skin (this isn't a Negro thing....it is a skin tone thing)....look at Thai construction workers and the "wrap" they use to avoid getting darker. In a country where dark skin is looked down upon, they are going to throw a bad rap on Black people....especially a Farang. I am sure because of Hip Hop and some curiosity, on their part, of the Black penis....some guys don't see this upfront. But dance moves wear off and the penis curiosity thing wears off after a minute or so......so now they are left in a room with someone that has dark skin.....and that ain't good to them. If you have lighter colored skin.....but you consider yourself Black...it makes sense that they would not consider you Black....and then they love you longtime. The whole thing is a waste of time....probably best to just worry where the next wet end will come from than whether you are liked. Money is God in Thailand and everyone with money was created equal. Peace.
What these girls say to you and what they actually do may be very different. I am not disputing anything you write, however, lemme say two things:
I hate anecdotal stories, but: the two best looking people that I have seen in Thailand were a mixed black guy and his thai girl; they were driving around in her (what I presume) bmw so she was not some trashy bar girl. His girl was truly a one in a million thai chick...tall, c-cup boobies, slim waste, etc. when she went to downstairs to the head the men just drooled as she walked by. I'm not gay, but the guy would make rick fox look like a dog.
What's this prove? Nothing, but I thought I'd share it anyway.
Two, from what I now recall from my conversation with Giotto was that don't necessarily believe that just because a girl says some mean things about black guys that she wont date him, fuck him, or even marry him.
When Giotto was echoing what others have said, that Thais don't like dark skin, I was calling bullshit in my head because a few nights previously I had a prostitute in Spassos turn down 8000 tbt from a good looking Scandinavian guy and accompany me for 5000bhat. Perhaps the guy was into goldenshowers or something, but she was one of the better looking hookers in the place and had at least two other men proposition her yet she opted to go with a guy with dark skin (me) over a handsome Aryan.
I have also dated more than a few EE chicks, partially Romanians and Ukrainians, who can be labeled nothing other than virulent racists. My Romanian chick who was well educated and worked for a Big Three accounting firm in Bucharest was a Nazi sympathizer and stated that America should abort black babies at birth to solve many of its social problems...yet, she loved me dearly and stopped taking birth control without informing me so she that I could impregnate her.
Again, I am not disputing what you say about Thai aversion to dark skin, but YMMV.
DirkDingy,
Good, now I can sleep again :) ... and luckily I don't get 20 PMs a minute, but sometimes 20 PMs a day.
Its possible that I mentioned that Thais sometimes keep a certain distance towards black people (I really tried to find the right English words at the moment :) ) ... hopefully that doesn't make me a racist.
Hope to see you soon back here at Livingstone's - black or white, I don't care at all.
Giotto
Do you remember who I am?
Yea, I will stop by upon my return...can i get a free beer?
...I have also dated more than a few EE chicks, partially Romanians and Ukrainians, who can be labeled nothing other than virulent racists. My Romanian chick who was well educated and worked for a Big Three accounting firm in Bucharest was a Nazi sympathizer and stated that America should abort black babies at birth to solve many of its social problems...yet, she loved me dearly and stopped taking birth control without informing me so she that I could impregnate her...
So what are you telling us, Dirk? ... If you were a baby she'd rather see you dead, but just now she likes your dick and desires your baby?
Have you suggested psychiatric treatment for this woman?
Lover Boy #2
09-27-08, 11:00
What these girls say to you and what they actually do may be very different. I am not disputing anything you write, however, lemme say two things:
I hate anecdotal stories, but: the two best looking people that I have seen in Thailand were a mixed black guy and his thai girl; they were driving around in her (what I presume) bmw so she was not some trashy bar girl. His girl was truly a one in a million thai chick...tall, c-cup boobies, slim waste, etc. when she went to downstairs to the head the men just drooled as she walked by. I'm not gay, but the guy would make rick fox look like a dog.
What's this prove? Nothing, but I thought I'd share it anyway.
Two, from what I now recall from my conversation with Giotto was that don't necessarily believe that just because a girl says some mean things about black guys that she wont date him, fuck him, or even marry him.
When Giotto was echoing what others have said, that Thais don't like dark skin, I was calling bullshit in my head because a few nights previously I had a prostitute in Spassos turn down 8000 tbt from a good looking Scandinavian guy and accompany me for 5000bhat. Perhaps the guy was into goldenshowers or something, but she was one of the better looking hookers in the place and had at least two other men proposition her yet she opted to go with a guy with dark skin (me) over a handsome Aryan.
I have also dated more than a few EE chicks, partially Romanians and Ukrainians, who can be labeled nothing other than virulent racists. My Romanian chick who was well educated and worked for a Big Three accounting firm in Bucharest was a Nazi sympathizer and stated that America should abort black babies at birth to solve many of its social problems...yet, she loved me dearly and stopped taking birth control without informing me so she that I could impregnate her.
Again, I am not disputing what you say about Thai aversion to dark skin, but YMMV.
uh.....Dirk a few things;
1. ....girls saying to me and doing otherwise.......no shit!!.....I'm not talking about girls taking money from guys for sex and what they say to me. I am a little insulted that you think me so stupid. My opinion is based on hundreds of contacts...business and personal......and comments made by Thai men, Thai women and Thai Ladyboys (joke!).....seriously, I didn't invent this shit from a conversation with a bargirl...they slurp so much dick I doubt they have a color preference until after the cash is paid. Obviously what anyone says to me might be a lie...but then when 100's repeat the same stuff about dark skin....what can I think??
2. Nice story....hansum man gets TG.....gives me a shiver down my spine.
3. Giotto is right......BUT.....if a hi-so girl brings home her African lover.....Thai daddy won't be paying the petrol bills for much longer....trust me on this one.
4. Nice story on the bar play.....we really don't know what made her pick you...maybe you are hansum man? (or maybe other guys really didn't offer what she told you.....I have seen close Thai girlfriends lie to eachother about how much a guy paid)....unless they told you what they offered in amazement of the outcome?????...Amazing Thailand.
5. If a Romanian girl said that to me I would never see her again....and I'm not Black.....although I have a very nice tan today. Why you would have anything to do with a sick fuck like that is also amazing.
6. It's not YMMV for me on the skin thing. It doesn't affect me in any way....I was just relating what the culture is......beleive me on this one too!
Today I contacted this hot Thai chick on MySpace and I just asked her how Thais feel about black Americans here is what transpired:
Me:
Date: Sep 26, 2008 8:57 PM
Is it true Thai people don't like black Americans
Hot Thai Chick:
Date: Sep 27, 2008 6:33 AM
hummm..dont think so -- it's depend on whatever they like.
Proves nothing but I felt like just fucking around....the one on the left...
So what are you telling us, Dirk? ... If you were a baby she'd rather see you dead, but just now she likes your dick and desires your baby?
Have you suggested psychiatric treatment for this woman?
??? What I am saying is that people often say one thing and do another. When at home, I will articulately expound about the ills of prostitution and swear I have never boned a hooker. Obviously I am a hypocrite and liar...as many other people are in this world. ...just like a lot of right wingers back home that do the exact opposite in private of what the espouse publically:the idaho senator soliciting sex while taking a shit, the GOP Family values guy fondling the male pages, etc.
people can justify anything they choose, especially for women who love.
moreover, exceptions are made all the time.
some of my cousins are nationalistic and racist brutish thick neck thugs...the kinda guys that go to a soccer match to throw down as opposed to observing the pitch action, yet if you were to make a derogatory comment about my passport or skin color in Belgrade they would fuck you up in a minute...not so much about the passport, but definitely about the skin color:)
many women and people in general exhibit conflicting behaivor.
i dont think that this is too hard to fathom.
uh.....Dirk a few things;
1. ....girls saying to me and doing otherwise.......no shit!!.....I'm not talking about girls taking money from guys for sex and what they say to me. I am a little insulted that you think me so stupid. My opinion is based on hundreds of contacts...business and personal......and comments made by Thai men, Thai women and Thai Ladyboys (joke!).....seriously, I didn't invent this shit from a conversation with a bargirl...they slurp so much dick I doubt they have a color preference until after the cash is paid. Obviously what anyone says to me might be a lie...but then when 100's repeat the same stuff about dark skin....what can I think??
2. Nice story....hansum man gets TG.....gives me a shiver down my spine.
3. Giotto is right......BUT.....if a hi-so girl brings home her African lover.....Thai daddy won't be paying the petrol bills for much longer....trust me on this one.
4. Nice story on the bar play.....we really don't know what made her pick you...maybe you are hansum man? (or maybe other guys really didn't offer what she told you.....I have seen close Thai girlfriends lie to eachother about how much a guy paid)....unless they told you what they offered in amazement of the outcome?????...Amazing Thailand.
5. If a Romanian girl said that to me I would never see her again....and I'm not Black.....although I have a very nice tan today. Why you would have anything to do with a sick fuck like that is also amazing.
6. It's not YMMV for me on the skin thing. It doesn't affect me in any way....I was just relating what the culture is......beleive me on this one too!
Lover Boy, once again, I do not doubt for one minute what Thais have said to you about people with black skin. I never for a moment inferred that you were taking a bar girl's word as gospel.
All that I am arguing is that people are hypocrites.
4. No, I heard the guy's proposition and another's. the girl took my 5k over his 8k. ok, i am relatively good looking and smile always... but the white dude was no chopped liver either. who knows, maybe she had a thing for black dick? the thai hookers seem to value fun more so than other WGs .
5. I think that some people consider black to be African black as opposed to "mulatto' black. Magda and I connected on multiple levels, and I regret not committing to her despite her racist attitudes. She was always there for me when I needed her and gave me the kick in the ass and professional motivation that I need. to be blunt, I am a bit of a cultural snob too so we got along fairly well...she was more of anti-semite than anti-black though.
more importantly, she was also into deviant mascasistic sex which I was previously ashamed to admit to enjoying but now am more nowgrappling with. when she said spank me she meant it!!!! gettin a woody now just thinking about it.
lets meet up when I get back, ok?
??? What I am saying is that people often say one thing and do another. When at home, I will articulately expound about the ills of prostitution and swear I have never boned a hooker. Obviously I am a hypocrite and liar...as many other people are in this world...
Ok, now I understand what you're saying.
Liars and hypocrites ... the two kinds of people in this world that I go out of my way to avoid. I think they are sick. I've never met one who was happy. They hate themselves.
If I were you, I wouldn't go to sleep with that mad woman in my room. And I wouldn't fuck her if she were the last woman in Bangkok. She should be booted down the stairs and kicked to the curb to be picked up with the rest of the garbage.
Do you remember who I am?
Yea, I will stop by upon my return...can i get a free beer?DirkDingy,
Sure I remember who you are. We were sitting at the pool for some time, discussing about Bangkok. That's why I did not understand your racism comment.
Anyway - get over here when you come back to Bangkok.
Giotto
Old Thai Hand
09-27-08, 14:16
Thais don't like dark skin on themselves. So, why would anyone think that they'd like dark-skinned foreigners, whether swarthy Indians, Arabs, African Blacks or Will Smith look-alikes?
I've mentioned before, when we had this same discussion, that I've had several black American students over the years studying here in international programs, who complained that the Thai girls wouldn't give them the time of day.
If a TG is going to date a foreigner at all, she's taking some risk. Therefore, there has to be some status in it: money, looks, youth, position etc. Thais idolize white skin. So, it's doubtful that there would be any status at all gained by being seen with a black man, regardless of how much money he has. If the odd TG dates a black man, there may be genuine attraction, or just curiosity. But, I suspect it would have more to do with a little rebellion, than anything else. She'd sure as hell never marry him.
This discussion seems to never go away, because there's always someone with a skin colour issue trying to justify the argument by anecdotal evidence that he or someone like him has had nothing but a positive experience here. Well, it's more than likely that the experience has been confined to hookers and service people. Therefore, because money rules, these kinds of experiences are not any sort of accurate measurement of Thai attitudes towards people of colour. Thais know which side their bread is buttered on and will be nice to anyone paying the bill. However, this does not equate with acceptance or even tolerance. They're just extremely good at hiding their true feelings.
Two years ago, I was asked to head-hunt for our faculty. I happened to be acquainted with a well-qualified African-American living in Bangkok, who was perfect for the job. If he had been white, he'd have had the job in a heartbeat. But, I was told that he wouldn't "fit in", and that many of the students and their parents wouldn't accept him, simply because of his skin colour. That's the reality of things here.
The bottom line is, no matter how many stories anyone can drum up to somehow try to counter the contention that Thais don't like people with dark skin, the fact remains that they absolutely, unequivocally do not like people with dark skin, regardless of where they come from or what their ethnicity is.
However, the younger generation does like Will Smith, Ne-Yo and Hip Hoppers like 50 Cent etc. But, it's despite their skin colour, because they're celebrities and also Thais like the music.
Thais don't like dark skin on themselves. So, why would anyone think that they'd like dark-skinned foreigners, whether swarthy Indians, Arabs, African Blacks or Will Smith look-alikes?
I've mentioned before, when we had this same discussion, that I've had several black American students over the years studying here in international programs, who complained that the Thai girls wouldn't give them the time of day.....
OTH I agree with you 100 percent and when I hear black guys or non-white guys say they had a great time with the non prostitute type of girls I have to play referee and throw the bullshit flag. I have been Thailand many times since 06 and got a feel for the people.
I see how they act when I come around. They behave almost disturbed. I am average height in excellent shape always lodging at a 4-5 star and I am always dressed in nice clothes and whether its business casual Lacoste or hip hop attire.
I never get this feeling of aversion in PI even among the HI-So society Filipinos. I had one incident in which I felt a little racism by a Filipino and I don’t know was it racism or the way I was dressed. Went into a Lacoste store in Dubai (and if you know fashion Lacoste is expensive)a girl rushed to the front the store to tell me they didn’t sale the type of clothes I was wearing which was hip hop clothing. I proceeded to pull countless shirts and pants off the rack and threw the bundle up on the counter. After that she was questioning my business lady pinay friend in Tagalog where do I work, how long she has been knowing me etc….she ended with “anything else” showing all her teeth :D smiling.
Anyway I digress.
All I know in Thailand I don’t feel welcome no matter where I go in the place it’s that simple.
Satrai2000
09-27-08, 20:07
I am following your discussions, dear fellow forum members.
It seems that you all - whites, blacks, Asians - are seeking for acceptance and love from Thai (p4p) ladies. To me it seems that "she likes me better than she likes you" is what this whole discussion is about.
If you're really looking for acceptance by Thais (ladies) then I wish you good luck. Why would they accept and like you? You're just another tourist/expat from another part of the world coming to their country for fun.
When it comes to men, the majority of the Thai ladies are much more interested in Thai men (whether dark skinned Thai or fair skinned Thai) than in men from any other country. So be and think realistic.
I personally do not believe in love or acceptance from anybody. I believe that your only REAL friend is your mother. But this is only MHO.
When I visit BKK or any other place in the world, I put on another mask, do my business and leave. Just don't expect that anybody loves me or likes me. Even if they say so.
Terry Terrier
09-28-08, 00:34
Thais don't like dark skin on themselves. So, why would anyone think that they'd like dark-skinned foreigners, whether swarthy Indians, Arabs, African Blacks or Will Smith look-alikes?
I've mentioned before, when we had this same discussion, that I've had several black American students over the years studying here in international programs, who complained that the Thai girls wouldn't give them the time of day.
If a TG is going to date a foreigner at all, she's taking some risk. Therefore, there has to be some status in it: money, looks, youth, position etc. Thais idolize white skin. So, it's doubtful that there would be any status at all gained by being seen with a black man, regardless of how much money he has. If the odd TG dates a black man, there may be genuine attraction, or just curiosity. But, I suspect it would have more to do with a little rebellion, than anything else. She'd sure as hell never marry him.
This discussion seems to never go away, because there's always someone with a skin colour issue trying to justify the argument by anecdotal evidence that he or someone like him has had nothing but a positive experience here. Well, it's more than likely that the experience has been confined to hookers and service people. Therefore, because money rules, these kinds of experiences are not any sort of accurate measurement of Thai attitudes towards people of colour. Thais know which side their bread is buttered on and will be nice to anyone paying the bill. However, this does not equate with acceptance or even tolerance. They're just extremely good at hiding their true feelings.
Two years ago, I was asked to head-hunt for our faculty. I happened to be acquainted with a well-qualified African-American living in Bangkok, who was perfect for the job. If he had been white, he'd have had the job in a heartbeat. But, I was told that he wouldn't "fit in", and that many of the students and their parents wouldn't accept him, simply because of his skin colour. That's the reality of things here.
The bottom line is, no matter how many stories anyone can drum up to somehow try to counter the contention that Thais don't like people with dark skin, the fact remains that they absolutely, unequivocally do not like people with dark skin, regardless of where they come from or what their ethnicity is.
However, the younger generation does like Will Smith, Ne-Yo and Hip Hoppers like 50 Cent etc. But, it's despite their skin colour, because they're celebrities and also Thais like the music.
Anyone get the impression that even though OTH and his students' parents bullshit bigotry is going nowhere, said students (at least some of them) are starting to look at the bigger picture?
Old Thai Hand
09-28-08, 01:31
Anyone get the impression that even though OTH and his students' parents bullshit bigotry is going nowhere, said students (at least some of them) are starting to look at the bigger picture?
TT
Please don't lump me in with my students' parents. I'm merely giving information about the Thai view. It is decidely NOT my view and nowhere in my post did I express it as my view.
Don't mistake my oft-stated preference for white skin in Thai girls as a bigotted POV. It's merely a matter of taste and nothing more.
You also missed the point about my students. They don't look at the "bigger picture" for the most part, which is why my black students can't get TGs to go out with them. I was talking generally about some TGs who may date black guys, because it's dangerous or they're curious or they're rebellious. But, they're few and far between.
For example, I have just 1 student who dates Indian guys; and that's out of a class of 86 students. She's very atypical because she's studied and lived abroad and is very un-Thai. While I do think things may be changing a little, your typical Thai student, unless they went to an international school is almost as close-minded, when push comes to shove, as their parents.
Things might be different if Thailand was a multi-cultural country. But, being as homogeneous as it is and that a "one culture view" is the official policy of the government, especially in education, it's quite understandable that Thais would be weirded out by anyone who was the slightest bit different.
Hell, they don't even like other Asians that much, except Korean and Japanese and only like the upper crust Hong Kong-type Chinese. They hate the Cambodians, Vietnamese and Burmese and view the Lao as stupid, country bumpkins.
Old Thai Hand
09-28-08, 01:47
All I know in Thailand I don’t feel welcome no matter where I go in the place it’s that simple.
It may be of small consolation. But, I don't feel that welcome either, a lot of the time, and I'm as "white-bread" as they come. When you understand the lingo and hear what Thais say to each other, when they assume that you don't understand, it's clear what they really think. The guys that go on about GFEs and how lovely this or that BG is should hear what these girls are actually saying in the bar about them. There was a show on Thai TV a couple of months ago about Thai girls who marry Farang. The program basically took the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) out of the Farang and portrayed them as gullible idiots. The most telling moment was when some hapless Farang, who didn't speak any Thai sat smiling like a Cheshire cat, while his wife ragged on about him in Thai to the interviewer. She said he was "fat and old but with lots of money" and had built her a house and took care of her family. She didn't love him or even like him that much. But, she stayed with him because she had no choice. She then turned to him, all sweetness and smiles and said, "I love you", at which point, the people in the live audience and the interviewer on stage began howling with laughter. The joke was very much on this clueless Farang.
It may be of small consolation. But, I don't feel that welcome either, a lot of the time, and I'm as "white-bread" as they come. When you understand the lingo and hear what Thais say to each other, when they assume that you don't understand, it's clear what they really think. The guys that go on about GFEs and how lovely this or that BG is should hear what these girls are actually saying in the bar about them. There was a show on Thai TV a couple of months ago about Thai girls who marry Farang. The program basically took the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) out of the Farang and portrayed them as gullible idiots. The most telling moment was when some hapless Farang, who didn't speak any Thai sat smiling like a Cheshire cat, while his wife ragged on about him in Thai to the interviewer. She said he was "fat and old but with lots of money" and had built her a house and took care of her family. She didn't love him or even like him that much. But, she stayed with him because she had no choice. She then turned to him, all sweetness and smiles and said, "I love you", at which point, the people in the live audience and the interviewer on stage began howling with laughter. The joke was very much on this clueless Farang.
I don't doubt what you say as you've been here long enough to know.
You've told us that you roughly fit the description of this hapless farang.
So do you think your beautiful 21 year old girlfriend and her family think this way about you, and if not, why not?
Seems to me that you are confirming my opinion about relationships with Thai girls -- keep it short time and don't get involved. Take advantage of their nubile young bodies, but don't fall in love.
BTW -- regarding the innocent little sweetheart who's decided she's crazy about me -- I've told her I want to treat her as a daughter, not a girlfriend, and she's happy with it. I enjoy her company very much and can give her my affections now without all the complications of sexual tension, etc. It's going to work out great. When I want a fuck, I'll simply take a BG or FL short time.
Old Thai Hand
09-28-08, 03:25
You've told us that you roughly fit the description of this hapless farang.
Not at all. He was completely clueless, was a relatively recent arrival and married to some village farmgirl from Isaan, not to mention that he was a bit of an old, working-class geezer, in the full meaning of that word. I don't see any similarities at all.
So do you think your beautiful 21 year old girlfriend and her family think this way about you, and if not, why not? .
23 now, actually. Well, nobody can really know what people think. But, I haven't bought a house or spent any money on her family, and yet they seem to be happy she's with me. Her father, who was a provincial administrator of education before he retired is obviously impressed with the job I have and so apparently has a lot of respect for me because of it. Also, don't forget that I'm as wired into the culture as any outsider can be and on top of that, I know what they're saying to each other (in both languages: Thai and Isaan).
I think my GF loves me. But, who knows for sure? She's good to me, which is all that counts, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not some love-sick kid. I don't need to have the "love of my life", anymore. I had that. She died. So now, I'm just looking for some creature comforts. I care about my GF. She's smart and fun to be with. She's very sexy, easy on the eyes and an exceptional shag. At my age, does it need to be anything more than that?
As I've stated to you before, I did the round-robin-different-girl-every-night for a long time, here. Now, I don't want that anymore. But, nobody can fault you or others for wanting that.
Lover Boy #2
09-28-08, 03:25
OTH I agree with you 100 percent and when I hear black guys or non-white guys say they had a great time with the non prostitute type of girls I have to play referee and throw the bullshit flag. I have been Thailand many times since 06 and got a feel for the people.
I see how they act when I come around. They behave almost disturbed. I am average height in excellent shape always lodging at a 4-5 star and I am always dressed in nice clothes and whether its business casual Lacoste or hip hop attire.
I never get this feeling of aversion in PI even among the HI-So society Filipinos. I had one incident in which I felt a little racism by a Filipino and I don’t know was it racism or the way I was dressed. Went into a Lacoste store in Dubai (and if you know fashion Lacoste is expensive)a girl rushed to the front the store to tell me they didn’t sale the type of clothes I was wearing which was hip hop clothing. I proceeded to pull countless shirts and pants off the rack and threw the bundle up on the counter. After that she was questioning my business lady pinay friend in Tagalog where do I work, how long she has been knowing me etc….she ended with “anything else” showing all her teeth :D smiling.
Anyway I digress.
All I know in Thailand I don’t feel welcome no matter where I go in the place it’s that simple.
Now that we are all digging deep into our hearts/souls and speaking the truth.....let me say this....when I see these Thais saying the things they say and seeing the things they do everyday, I feel sick sometimes. I think all of the white guys on here are atypical, non-racist types who have liberal race views in the first place.....because why would we be attracted to Asian women? The racist white guys do not partake in this at this level.....they look for white women and believe that having sex with an Asian woman is depraved and race mixing. So, we start out with guys on here who are not looking to break anyones' balls as far as racial issues go in the first place. Guys talking about the foibles of Thais are speaking from experience...and in some cases, vast experience.
So, this is my heart wrenching racist story;
Many years ago, my company sent me to Mexico on business. I was coming from Europe and was to meet an employee in the US before leaving for Mexico D.F. I met the guy...a Black man from California....he confided that he didn't speak Spanish....and wasn't quite sure how he got picked for this assignment. I can...and I figured what we had to do wasn't that complicated.....he seemed like a nice guy....so we were off for Mexico.
.....now we are in a brothel........this guy is normal looking, well dressed and smiles a lot. I can see he is getting no play at all with the girls...and these are Mexican pros. I start to feel a bit uneasy at this whole scene. The guy gets up to go to the toilet.....and five of the girls approach me........
Girls; Who is your nigger friend (this is in Spanish....but the "N' word is not)
Me; WTF.........are you girl's joking talking like that?
Girls; No...we are not joking and we don't fuck niggers....why don't you take him and leave.
Me; Why are you acting this way?
Girls; (a lot of negative racial shit that isn't necessary to repeat)
Me; We are out of here!!
The guy comes back from the toilet and I have to tell him that I don't feel good and want to return to our hotel. He is a bit heartbroken. I was able to get around without him after we returned to the hotel and find two cute girls who were not caring about color....but being true pros...the money was the driving factor.....everything went OK.
This incident has remained in my mind for 20 years. It really makes me sick that people would act like this...and this was in Mexico......with mixed Indian/Spanish peoples!! It seems everyone has to have someone to look down on no matter who they are or what their background is......this is what racism is....it makes no sense.....it is one group trying to knock another. If it wasn't skin, it could be hair color next...or mabe eye color or shape of head.....it is racism.
It is really a shame on humanity that our caveman/tribal ways have to come out in these ugly ways. It is really a shame on humanity that anyone has to feel "unwelcome"....anywhere...based on race...it is almost like a sin that mankind cannot shuck off. Let me apologize on behalf of my Thai brothers/sisters....who can be ignorant, close minded and quick to make comment on pigmentation issues with no reason.
Now....let's all have some fun and bang some Thai bitches!!!! 1 Peace.
...I think my GF loves me. But, who knows for sure? She's good to me, which is all that counts, as far as I'm concerned...
I think she probably loves you too, and it just goes to show that it is quite possible for old farangs like us to find love and happiness with beautiful young girls in Thailand. They aren't all like the b**tch in the TV show.
So, this is my heart wrenching racist story;
Many years ago, my company sent me to Mexico on business. I was coming from Europe and was to meet an employee in the US before leaving for Mexico D.F. I met the guy...a Black man from California....he confided that he didn't speak Spanish....and wasn't quite sure how he got picked for this assignment. I can...and I figured what we had to do wasn't that complicated.....he seemed like a nice guy....so we were off for Mexico.
.....now we are in a brothel........this guy is normal looking, well dressed and smiles a lot. I can see he is getting no play at all with the girls...and these are Mexican pros. I start to feel a bit uneasy at this whole scene. The guy gets up to go to the toilet.....and five of the girls approach me........
Girls; Who is your nigger friend (this is in Spanish....but the "N' word is not)
Me; WTF.........are you girl's joking talking like that?
Girls; No...we are not joking and we don't fuck niggers....why don't you take him and leave.
Me; Why are you acting this way?
Girls; (a lot of negative racial shit that isn't necessary to repeat)
Me; We are out of here!!
The guy comes back from the toilet and I have to tell him that I don't feel good and want to return to our hotel. He is a bit heartbroken. I was able to get around without him after we returned to the hotel and find two cute girls who were not caring about color....but being true pros...the money was the driving factor.....everything went OK.
This incident has remained in my mind for 20 years. It really makes me sick that people would act like this...and this was in Mexico......with mixed Indian/Spanish peoples!! It seems everyone has to have someone to look down on no matter who they are or what their background is......this is what racism is....it makes no sense.....it is one group trying to knock another. If it wasn't skin, it could be hair color next...or mabe eye color or shape of head.....it is racism.
Some people may find this surprising but I don’t. I was married to a Mexican American woman for 5 years bruh. Her father told her I was going to beat her, leave her with a bunch of kids etc…he said blacks don’t do anything but sale drugs. We met while I was an NCO in the US Army. I guess all the drug smugglers in Mexico are black too. :) Anyway I digress. I was the one who left the marriage an emotional wreck then when I landed my dream job she tried to take the one thing I had left to hold dear to my heart my money saying she was owed at least half but lucky I got to escape without separation pay due to us not having kids….
Joe Nailer
09-28-08, 09:39
.
Hell, they don't even like other Asians that much, except Korean and Japanese and only like the upper crust Hong Kong-type Chinese. They hate the Cambodians, Vietnamese and Burmese and view the Lao as stupid, country bumpkins.
OTH,
I appreciate your insight on this subject but
can you tell me, why Thais hate Vietnamese?
I want to know because my gik is a non p4p Vietnamese girl and I am planning to take her to BKK for a three way interaction with a thai provider (my gik does not know this, yet ;) ). If the thai provider hates Vietnamese it would be less enjoyable.
PS: I dont need a dissertation :)
Old Thai Hand
09-28-08, 10:21
OTH,
I appreciate your insight on this subject but
can you tell me, why Thais hate Vietnamese?
I want to know because my gik is a non p4p Vietnamese girl and I am planning to take her to BKK for a three way interaction with a thai provider (my gik does not know this, yet ;) ). If the thai provider hates Vietnamese it would be less enjoyable.
PS: I dont need a dissertation :)
I don't really know why, actually. It seems to be one of those totally irrational things that just is. Some suggest it's connected to the Vietnam War. But, I think it goes back centuries. There seems to be in general a 4-way, long-standing hatred between the Thais, Lao, Cambodians and Vietnamese.
I'll ask my GF and see what she says.
FritsVanegter
09-28-08, 11:39
Hello,
I think this problem is amplified by the lack of knowledge and interest of the Thai people about what is happening outside their country. Even the so-called educated people don't give a damn about non-Thai issues. Only if money is involved they will pretend to be interested. They also don't care if farangs would give them the advice to improve their English skills to get a more stable financial life. Take a look at the political situation in the last few years. I think they deserve the mess that they did create themselves. But fopr mongering it is still a nice country but other countries in Asia are certainly getting my attention. Tell Thai people that the average staff member in a Cambodian hotel has better English knowledge and more drive to improve it than the average Thai staff. You allways look down on Thai people is what they say to me. I tell them it is the truth.
Greetings,
Frits
M P Lurker
09-28-08, 13:07
I don't really know why, actually. It seems to be one of those totally irrational things that just is. Some suggest it's connected to the Vietnam War. But, I think it goes back centuries. There seems to be in general a 4-way, long-standing hatred between the Thais, Lao, Cambodians and Vietnamese.
I'll ask my GF and see what she says.
Thai girls generally don't like Vietnamese men due to their level of disrespect and impoliteness, I believe. But other Thai girls have Viet boyfriends so not everyone is the same.
Many Thai girls will say they hate Thai men in general also, but still end up having a secret Thai boyfriend. But they hate Thai men perhaps for different reasons.
Satrai2000
09-28-08, 16:52
Thai girls generally don't like Vietnamese men due to their level of disrespect and impoliteness, I believe. But other Thai girls have Viet boyfriends so not everyone is the same.
Many Thai girls will say they hate Thai men in general also, but still end up having a secret Thai boyfriend. But they hate Thai men perhaps for different reasons.Let's make a list/matrix of "who hates whom"!
It seems to me that everybody hates everybody.
(B. T. W. : In my hometown this list was as follows:
1. Between moslims and hindus;
2. Between the different hindu believes;
3. Between the different casts;
4. Between the fair skinned and the dark skinned;
5. Towards pakistani, bangla's, nepali and birmese;
8. I know a man who couldn't stand Chinese because of something stupid;
9. Towards westerners. But this had to do with the colonial past)
Lover Boy #2
09-29-08, 01:53
It seems to me that everybody hates everybody.
....and that is the whole problem....and here I am just a squirrel trying to get a nut! As the famous American philosospher once said..."Why can't we all just get along"?
Starchild2012
09-29-08, 18:10
....and that is the whole problem....and here I am just a squirrel trying to get a nut! As the famous American philosospher once said..."Why can't we all just get along"?
What we think as cultural, religious and racial problems are really Psycological issues that every men and women face.
Going to college, working 9 to 5 in any profession does not help us any way in self improvment.
When i was racially descriminated in PI, i felt very very sad..the very reason..I came to PI was i loved those people..but they hated me...why is this hatred...although...everything got sorted out later...the first impresion was painfull.
During my Google search to find the very answer, why people hate each other..i came across Eli Siegel notes......after reading and understanding his philosophy....my outlook on all issues have changed and i feel free..its not really a racial problem..the hatred the very seed of hatred is something else which has to do with the way our minds are wired.
He calls his philosophy Aesthetic Realism.
If you are in Ayn Rand stuff..It borders on it..but with real depth coverage on love and hatred :)
here are his main points
Man's greatest, deepest desire is to like the world honestly.
The one way to like the world honestly, not as a conquest of one's own, is to see the world as the aesthetic oneness of opposites.
The greatest danger or temptation of man is to get a false importance or glory from the lessening of things not himself; which lessening is Contempt.
This oneness of opposites and liking of thw world are his core philosophy and understanding of it makes one reallly understand the world better.
You could get more info on his various notes on why we love and hate by Googling or visiting website where he describes his philosophy in detail http://www.aestheticrealism.net/tro/
Its difficult to understand at first..but once understood it will really really clean up the psycological mess that we are all born up with.
Good Luck
Born Loser - you won't find the answers on google, but in common sense. Forget Ayn Rand and the new-age Eli Seigel 'philospher' (what a bunch of crock). Think independently.
Racism is simple - people tend to be uncomfortable with people unlike themselves. At a deeper level, it comes down to economics and genetics. In general, white people are genetically more aggressive and materialistic than black people. Have you ever noticed (it doesn't matter which country) - the blacker people are, the 'poorer' they are?
I'll leave it up to my gold-dripping black bro (Daddy Warbucks) and my walmart-dripping white bro (Opebo) to add to this, if they wish. ;)
Racism is simple - people tend to be uncomfortable with people unlike themselves. At a deeper level, it comes down to economics and genetics. In general, white people are genetically more aggressive and materialistic than black people. Have you ever noticed (it doesn't matter which country) - the blacker people are, the 'poorer' they are?
I'll leave it up to my gold-dripping black bro (Daddy Warbucks) and my walmart-dripping white bro (Opebo) to add to this, if they wish. ;)
LOL Pipe my man you never cease to give me a good laugh. Checking into Dubai Monday. Happy Mongering to all :D
Lover Boy #2
09-30-08, 08:51
When i was racially descriminated in PI, i felt very very sad..the very reason..I came to PI was i loved those people..but they hated me...why is this hatred...although...everything got sorted out later...the first impresion was painfull.
Can you detail what you mean by this? I have been to PI and had a great time....there didn't seem to be any problems that I could see....less recism than Thailand in my opinion....I'm curious what you encountered.
Lover Boy #2
09-30-08, 09:01
Racism is simple - people tend to be uncomfortable with people unlike themselves. At a deeper level, it comes down to economics and genetics. In general, white people are genetically more aggressive and materialistic than black people. Have you ever noticed (it doesn't matter which country) - the blacker people are, the 'poorer' they are?
....not quite sure what you are saying here.....but on the face of it, it looks blatently racist....or maybe it is a joke? (that I don't get). Are you saying that the "blacker people" are the poorest because they are genetically less agressive and less materialistic? This would be the crock.
The blacker people are the poorest because colonial powers rewarded light skinned peoples with positions of power....and once leaving these countries, the lighter skinned peoples were left in positions of political and social power. The Haitian experience is the definition of this theory...and leaves, to this day...the darkest peoples in the greatest degree of poverty. The colonial powers also perpetrated the light skinned is smarter/better/prettier theory through educational systems, media and action.....throughout the world.....from the 1400's to the 20th century.
The African experience of military commanders (and the darkness of their skin) and the systematic killing (genocide) of neighbors does not support your whiter is more agressive theory.
All of this said....the image of Opebo at Walmart is quite something to think of! (i.e. asking the check out clerk if she would like to go on a skinless date)
I could write more on my thesis.....but I must now make poo-poo.
....not quite sure what you are saying here.....but on the face of it, it looks blatently racist....or maybe it is a joke? (that I don't get). Are you saying that the "blacker people" are the poorest because they are genetically less agressive and less materialistic? This would be the crock.
You didn't smell what Pipe was cooking? He is in a class of his own when it comes to wit on ISG and his jokes can be hard to get but even I picked up on this one.
In layman terms what he did was throw a out a stereotype then presented two people he knew who went against the grain showing it is ALL bullshit. :D
...Racism is simple - people tend to be uncomfortable with people unlike themselves...)
Yeah ... I hate everyone equally. :)
M P Lurker
09-30-08, 12:13
Let's make a list/matrix of "who hates whom"!
It seems to me that everybody hates everybody.
(B. T. W. : In my hometown this list was as follows:
1. Between moslims and hindus;
2. Between the different hindu believes;
3. Between the different casts;
4. Between the fair skinned and the dark skinned;
5. Towards pakistani, bangla's, nepali and birmese;
8. I know a man who couldn't stand Chinese because of something stupid;
9. Towards westerners. But this had to do with the colonial past)
And supporters of one football team hate supporters of another football team.
All seems normal.
But in the end if we automatically exclude someone from a group of any type purely because they seem to belong to that group in some way, without giving them any chance, then this is called xxxx-ism of some type.
But this happens all the time. People get excluded purely because group belongling implies they are high risk of something.
I think I can work with any nationality as long as "weird" beliefs are not imposed on everyone and as long as they don't have badly ponging armpits (my pet phobia ;) as all well know by now).
I have a white workmate who used to have ponger armpits. I was the only one brave enough to quietly discuss this with him. Unbelievably, he seems to have been able to rectify the problem virtually 99%, which is surprising. He just didn't know he had a problem before. No one told him. So I can go near him now after all.
Skin colour by itself should not be an issue. I like dark brown girls like Halle Berry a lot. I met a girl in Frankfurt called Alice who had similar looks and I had the hots for her all the time even though she a bit too bossy for my liking.
You didn't smell what Pipe was cooking? He is in a class of his own when it comes to wit on ISG and his jokes can be hard to get but even I picked up on this one.
In layman terms what he did was throw a out a stereotype then presented two people he knew who went against the grain showing it is ALL bullshit. :DI still don't know the answer to this question: Why is it that the darker your skin, the worse deal you get in society, no matter which country.
Maybe there's a sociologist on this site who can help us out with this disturbing question. I was hoping Opebo would help, with his memories of his first-year sociology classes, but that was too long ago and he gave up. Anyone else have the answer?
And supporters of one football team hate supporters of another football team.
All seems normal ...
Mick has a very good point - it doesn't matter which team you are on, the other team must be seen as inferior. That's human nature.
Nicely said Mick.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.4 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.