Non-Pro Garotas - Opinions & Advice

[Exec Talent]

I was at the Botafogo football club for a couple of hours today and for those of you who can get an lunch invite, it is a great place to meet English speaking non-pros.

[Iigorvich]

@Exec Talent: looking foreward to your report on non-pros.

[Rio Bob]

had a late start yesterday, it was a clear sunny hot day, i was feeling like going swimming in a pool so i took a van from copa to the sheraton. hung out in the pool for a while, had lunch. didn't see many prospects but some good looking aging flight attendants but that would have been a very hard nut to crack as well as a few pairs of young women rep001tered around the pool area, looked like tourists from argentina.

so i left about 5 pm, as i was walking up to the bus stop i see a young woman walking towards the bus stop, i was still a ways away and said to myself if she doesn't stop at the bus stop and keeps walking i may walk back to copa and try to talk to her. she stopped at the bus stop. i waived a van down going to copa, i got in first and she sat next to me. i started up a conversation with her, she was friendly, i asked her if she would like to go for a drink, she said sure. we went to a belmont botequem in ipanema, at first very stiff but after a few beers things started to loosen up and after an hour and a half we were making out at the table,

i asked her to come to my apto and have a louco night with me, she laughed and said no i just met you. so i said lets just go for one drink, she likes whisky and i have johnnie walker black double black and after 45 min of asking she finally said yes,

in the apto we kissed had a few drinks but she declined my advances for over an hour and then i just said to her lets just be friends so you can calm down i don't want to have sex with you. 10 minutes later i got to her nipple and then she was on fire, there was no stopping her i had a sex machine on my hands that i could barely keep up with. after the first pop i had to go find my vitamin v in order to get to the second performance and then the third. all holes and all her idea, she was spreading those cheeks and it wasn't easy to get in, no lube but it never was really my thing so maybe i don't have the proper technique down. she tried to get me off for the 4th time, i told her 3 is about it even 20 years ago.

i'm going to take the van more often 2. 5 reais spent very wisely. she just left and asked me what i'm going to do today, i said you never know maybe i'll meet a nice girl in a van again. i'll see her again next week, she doesn't live close, so it won't be easy.

i also had the 24 yr old on facebook which i didn't encourage to come to rio to meet me but yesterday in a video session she asked to see my penis, i pulled it out for her, she told me she wants to come to rio and chupa meu pau', she took her top off, beautiful large natural breasts, but she lives too far, probably won't happen. our conversation has gone from weeks ago where she was looking for something concrete to asking me if i am a safado and i said yes and she said she loves that as she is a bem safada, what a country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx3zrdthe9i

[Java Man]

I was at the Botafogo football club for a couple of hours today and for those of you who can get an lunch invite, it is a great place to meet English speaking non-pros.Begs a Question? How does one get an invite?

[Java Man]

Had a late start yesterday, it was a clear sunny hot day, I was feeling like going swimming in a pool so I took a van from Copa to the Sheraton. Hung out in the pool for a while, had lunch.[/url]It's cold, and gloomy in chi-town today. I feel like asking a bunch o questions: You walk in like Mr Sheraton, owning the place? The staff bug you for a room key at the pool? Bring your own towels? Lunch expensive? Any hassles bring some local sand to this beach? BTW, Nice vid, pool and blonde look NICE! Thanks in advance.

[Rio Bob]

It's cold, and gloomy in chi-town today. I feel like asking a bunch o questions: You walk in like Mr Sheraton, owning the place? The staff bug you for a room key at the pool? Bring your own towels? Lunch expensive? Any hassles bring some local sand to this beach? BTW, Nice vid, pool and blonde look NICE! Thanks in advance.Yeah, I know my way around the Sheraton because I have been going there 30 years. But yes walk like you know where you are going straight to the elevators, the pool is down floor 0. Do not ask for a towel, keep low key, I bring my own or use none. I eat lunch there so I'm not a complete freeloader, a Margarhitta pizza is 35 reais, not cheap but you get the atmosphere and the pool. I spend the day there then I go back to Copa, what happened to me yesterday is unusual you can say I got lucky, a good freebie, the whole day was practically free, pool on Sheraton, Bucetta on Brasil. I'm not sure I would bring local sand to the beach, this would be pushing it unless she can completely blend in as a tourist, I obviously look like a tourist and that I belong there. Was there today and struck up a conversation with one of the nice looking aging Flight attendants, they are flying out tonight but they could come back 2 more times while I'm still here, so I was low key and making a little ground work, just planting seeds here and there.

[Jan 156]

Yeah, I know my way around the Sheraton because I have been going there 30 years. But yes walk like you know where you are going straight to the elevators, the pool is down floor 0. Do not ask for a towel, keep low key, I bring my own or use none. I eat lunch there so I'm not a complete freeloader, a Margarhitta pizza is 35 reais, not cheap but you get the atmosphere and the pool. I spend the day there then I go back to Copa, what happened to me yesterday is unusual you can say I got lucky, a good freebie, the whole day was practically free, pool on Sheraton, Bucetta on Brasil. I'm not sure I would bring local sand to the beach, this would be pushing it unless she can completely blend in as a tourist, I obviously look like a tourist and that I belong there. Was there today and struck up a conversation with one of the nice looking aging Flight attendants, they are flying out tonight but they could come back 2 more times while I'm still here, so I was low key and making a little ground work, just planting seeds here and there.Excellent post and good info. Many thanks.

[Exec Talent]

Was there today and struck up a conversation with one of the nice looking aging Flight attendants, they are flying out tonight but they could come back 2 more times while I'm still here, so I was low key and making a little ground work, just planting seeds here and there.I have a friend who works for a major US airline and who was kind enough to introduce me to a few of those "aging" flight attendants. Down by the pool area you will usually find the monkeys hanging out in the trees (haven't met a woman yet who doesn't love the cute little monkeys). It is a nice romantic walk along the ocean from the Sheraton, through Leblon, Ipanema to Copacabana. On Saturdays, the Sheraton has a wide variety of Feijoadas and on Sunday, an extensive brunch buffet.

Here is their site if anyone is interested on more specifics:

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=255

[Lorenzo]

I have a friend who works for a major US airline and who was kind enough to introduce me to a few of those "aging" flight attendants. Down by the pool area you will usually find the monkeys hanging out in the trees (haven't met a woman yet who doesn't love the cute little monkeys). It is a nice romantic walk along the ocean from the Sheraton, through Leblon, Ipanema to Copacabana. On Saturdays, the Sheraton has a wide variety of Feijoadas and on Sunday, an extensive brunch buffet.

Here is their site if anyone is interested on more specifics:

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=255I stayed at the Sheraton many times from 2004 to 2010, and I never saw any monkeys. I should think this would be unsanitary, since monkeys are notorious for shitting all over the place, and besides they can bite if you get too close. If there are monkeys there now, it must be a very recent innovation. If so, I'll have to carefully consider if I want to stay at the Sheraton again.

[Exec Talent]

I stayed at the Sheraton many times from 2004 to 2010, and I never saw any monkeys. I should think this would be unsanitary, since monkeys are notorious for shitting all over the place, and besides they can bite if you get too close. If there are monkeys there now, it must be a very recent innovation. If so, I'll have to carefully consider if I want to stay at the Sheraton again.They are in the trees by the pool. There is never a guarantee of seeing them. Once in awhile I will see them in the trees in Botafogo, then they will be gone. Just like hummingbirds. I see them all the time all over Rio, some people have never seen one.

Incidentally, you also will find monkeys at Sugar Loaf, Paquetá (an island about one hour ferry ride from downtown and on the islands around Paraty (cool orange ones). All you have to do is call to them and offer food (they really do like bananas).

[Sperto]

I stayed at the Sheraton many times from 2004 to 2010, and I never saw any monkeys. I should think this would be unsanitary, since monkeys are notorious for shitting all over the place, and besides they can bite if you get too close. If there are monkeys there now, it must be a very recent innovation. If so, I'll have to carefully consider if I want to stay at the Sheraton again.I havn't seen the monkeys at Sheraton, but if it's the small mico monkeys I don't think you should worry. Those small cute monkies seems very harmless.

You'll see a lot of those mico's in Rio, not at least up in the favelas where they usually run on the electric wires.

I doubt that Sheraton will get rid of them. Ibama wouldn't accept that.

[WhoIsIt]

Hey guys,

I have been here in Rio for a month and I have to say that I have had a lot of luck finding non-pros on plenty of fish. I have met 7 women so far, and have ended up in bed with all of them (6 on the first "date"). I have had so much luck with this that my usually trips to 4X4 have dropped off a bit.

Happy hunting!

[E Rivas]

Wow. It has been one hell of a week on the non-pro front. Lapa, Lagoa and one sure fire place to find and score with an unbelievable number of non-pros. I am putting together a guide for you Rio regulars. Just trying to come up with the best way to distribute it. Bring your condoms and your smile!Let me know when you have that guide ready I'll be there next week for 10 days during carnival and will be staying at Lapa and non-pros will be my main goal this time around.

[Eric Cartman]

Hey guys,

I have been here in Rio for a month and I have to say that I have had a lot of luck finding non-pros on plenty of fish. I have met 7 women so far, and have ended up in bed with all of them (6 on the first "date"). I have had so much luck with this that my usually trips to 4X4 have dropped off a bit.

Happy hunting!When I was doing my run of dating sites, I looked at plenty of fish. But it didn't seem to have a lot of Rio women on it. Are you just using the main URL and searching on Rio?

[Making Moves]

Hey guys,

I have been here in Rio for a month and I have to say that I have had a lot of luck finding non-pros on plenty of fish. I have met 7 women so far, and have ended up in bed with all of them (6 on the first "date"). I have had so much luck with this that my usually trips to 4X4 have dropped off a bit.

Happy hunting!Do you speak Portuguese? I just had a quick browse and I think only 2 actually have their message in English with one specifying she only wants men in America since she's going to be there for 1 or 2 years.

Did you change your profile to Rio, Brasil?

Cheers. I hope I find something there, I'm there for the first time tomorrow.

[WhoIsIt]

Do you speak Portuguese? I just had a quick browse and I think only 2 actually have their message in English with one specifying she only wants men in America since she's going to be there for 1 or 2 years.

Did you change your profile to Rio, Brasil?

Cheers. I hope I find something there, I'm there for the first time tomorrow.I speak a little portugues, but not much. On POF I usually start with something basic, and ask if they speak any English. There are a good number who do, and who want to practice their language skills. I did change my location to Rio and put in my profile where I am staying and for how long. The trick seems to be getting them just to meet for coffee or a drink, nee that happens everything else just follows naturally.

Good luck!

[Chercheur]

I cannot afford free pushy, it way too expensive for me.

In the past few years, I had an experience with a non-pro; I never paid anything more than restaurant and transportation when we were together. At the beginning it was really nice, and I was having a good time and good sex with her and she was telling me how good it was to be with me. Then she thought she was in love with me and she said all the things a woman say in this case, like planning to live with me and all that stuff. But also she got jealous and suspicious, and she started asking questions about my life. Same way as it goes with the women in my home country, except women in Brazil are worse, I don't fly to Brazil for that same old story, I did quit!

And now I pay only with real money, it is much cheaper!

[Making Moves]

I speak a little portugues, but not much. On POF I usually start with something basic, and ask if they speak any English. There are a good number who do, and who want to practice their language skills. I did change my location to Rio and put in my profile where I am staying and for how long. The trick seems to be getting them just to meet for coffee or a drink, nee that happens everything else just follows naturally.

Good luck!Nice nice. I met my non pro I had been talking to on / off for a few months, I didn't think I'd see her as we just spoke on skype here / there. Sure enough when I turned on my phone she had whatsapp me asking if I was in town, I said yes, she asked if she could come over, told her yes and she came. Spent the whole day with her, she took me first to search for an adapter which I needed badly for my camera. Laptop phone etc, after she took me to Flamengo where I'd be doing some MMA, there I met my favourite fighter Jose Aldo, took a picture, we stopped to do some grocery shopping, she was hungry but since I do not eat junk food she didn't want to eat alone, she was acting shy, I told them to give her pizza, she had a slice, I had some nice mango juice and also drank the Brasillian tea.

We came back to mine but I said I wanted to hang out, went to Copa beach, did some pull ups / dips, took some pictures, we came home she started cooking, she made dinner and also something for me to eat today. At night we did our thing, she went home about 4am in the morning.

She just sent me a whatsapp message like "watch out the police is on strike". I guess she's saying the thugs mighe be out preying on potential victims.

Let me hop over to POF.

[Making Moves]

Keeping the non pro movement going.

I went to Lapa with my chick on Friday, wow didn't know it was like that, looked like a carnival back home with everyone outside. She took me round, went to take some pictures on the steps, had a drink and settled at some hiphop club, it was dirt cheap to get in. 8 for guys. 5 for girls, there were a few hot chicks but of course my chick is not giving me room to breathe, she had fun cause she had not been to the club for a while, she wanted to be there longer.

We caught a taxi home even tho she insisted that we took the bus, I told her to take the taxi all the way home after he dropped me, she declined and caught the bus from near my apartment, next day she came and took me to Ipanema, they had the carnival street party going, there were some nice chicks, I gave her my camera to take pictures of asses, LOL, she wasn't offended, she told me to video hot guys too I told her hell no.

After she took me in an elevator and we went high to the top where you could see Ipanema beach, took some pics and she said "lets go to my favela, I'll take you home" I went, I had wanted to do a favela tour with a company but shit I was getting this for free, she showed me where the dealers used to hang out and stuff and she said, come. Went up some stairs,"this is my home". Went inside and met her mum / sis, the mum was like "why didn't you tell me he was coming I could've cooked" she said to the mum I don't eat, she gave me water her little sis was too shy to speak in English with me even though she's studying it in school, took some pics with them and then just as we were about to leave, the father woke up, she introduced me and he said he was going to take me on the tour, he took me to a mountain top, I was scared to climb, he took my camcorder from me and went further filming.

Had to rush back cause my friend from Nova iguacu wanted to take me there for her brother's birthday, I had bought him a toy since I would be staying there at the tail end of my trip, the plan was to go there for a few hours then head back to Lapa, my chick said there was no way I'd be back in time, she was going to go home, I told her to stay in my apt but she still had to go home to get clothes for Lapa, I just gave her the key to the apartment and went to Nova.

OMG was that place far or what? Anyway got there and EVERYBODY wanted to talk to me. Asking me if I knew any portuguese, I told them the 5 words I knew and sang a baile funk song."cabaret" they were pissing themselves laughing, they ask me if I knew what a cabaret was, I told them, they asked me if I knew more funk songs, I sang a few and they said they wanted to take me to Rio Sampa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L1qqVwNC0U

I was familiar with this since I had done extensive video searches on Youtube prior to my trip. Also by this time it was looking like I wasn't going to make it back to Copa or Lapa in time, so off to Rio Sampa. Wow so many gostosas in there, looked like the video but the only bad thing is you can't take cameras in that joint. While in there my chick kept texting me, she said she was going home and going to leave the key with the security, I told her to stay and wait, she sent me a couple of text saying if she knew I wasn't going to be backshe would've gone home.

Anyway got home next day at 7am. Had a bad experience with a taxi drive from downtown, I'll talk about this later, my chick was there, she'd clean the place up and was sleeping on the floor. I asked why she didn't use the bed she said she was waiting for me etc, she said the talk of going home were empty threats and I was tryna sweet her up, she said I was acting like a typical Brasilian man after coming home from the Cabaret, LOL.

I've got more non pro stories but I'd be lying to say I've fuck anyone other than my chick. She's always with me but I've had chicks asking me for my number / facebook when they discovered I'm a gringo, they want to practise their English. More stories later.

[Esperma]

I cannot afford free pushy, it way too expensive for me.

In the past few years, I had an experience with a non-pro; I never paid anything more than restaurant and transportation when we were together. At the beginning it was really nice, and I was having a good time and good sex with her and she was telling me how good it was to be with me. Then she thought she was in love with me and she said all the things a woman say in this case, like planning to live with me and all that stuff. But also she got jealous and suspicious, and she started asking questions about my life. Same way as it goes with the women in my home country, except women in Brazil are worse, I don't fly to Brazil for that same old story, I did quit!

And now I pay only with real money, it is much cheaper!My experience has been that if you meet a normal girl, meaning a cultured girl with a degree, not a funkeira, she is wanting to meet gringos. The reason being that the Brasilian guys make them corna with a whole bunch of girls and they really do not like that. The foreign guys, even ones here, seem less safado than the Brasilian guys who keep several girlfriends, buy them cars and houses and make babies with them. My semi-long time NP girlfriend is also clingy, and used to be jealous. She is really pushing me to D the lady in my home country and come to live in RJ with permanent visa. She does not speak any English, so very difficult for her to come to my country. I am very seriously contemplating it. The best thing is, that she knows well what I do related to ISG types of activities, and I have told her some of my stories, very safado, and it does not seem to phase her. [I previously was a Senior under another name with over 600 posts in RJ and SEA]. She says, well, do not get anyone pregnant! So I could live in mongering mecca with an educated girl that I like alot, who also does mind if I step out to VM once in a while, making 2x what I did my home country relative to the average wage. It is definitely something to consider.

[Netmaniaks]

Anyone knows any site where it is easy to meet nice non-pro girls in the São Paulo Region?

Thanks in advance

[MoonDog]

Anyone knows any site where it is easy to meet nice non-pro girls in the São Paulo Region?

Thanks in advanceJust go for a walk down a busy street or in a mall. Even if you don't speak Portuguese, there are beautiful girls all around who would like to me a nice guy.

Moondog

[Prosal]

Anyone knows any site where it is easy to meet nice non-pro girls in the São Paulo Region?

Thanks in advanceAgree with MoonD. Sao Paulo is without a doubt the place in Brasil where scoring non-pros is the easiest. Girls don't have this unsufferable haughty attitude that have the cariocas. They are usually more worldly and modest than their Rio cousins. And more approachable, less "cliquey". Maybe the fact to live in such a dehumanizing megapole makes people more human.

[SkinnyBop]

Anyone knows any site where it is easy to meet nice non-pro girls in the São Paulo Region?

Thanks in advanceVila Madalena district has great night life.

[Esperma]

My non-pro GF in RJ is into Candomble, and from a religious perspective I would say follows more closely Umbanda. Basically to gringos like me, Macumba like Voodoo of the USA.

Disclaimer, religious things are not ISG territory, much easier ways to get bunda, but I must say that I have noticed, if you can get into that circle, it is both a good cultural opportunity and a good chance to meet people. If you do not like the girl you are with, you can find another and all very open minded and not gold-digger types.

This girl has never asked me for a centavo in almost a year, even when she had no money and did not even have money for bus fares to come meet me and stay in my place, she bummed it from family. But, I noticed that after I went to her Candomble casa as an observer, her level of interest in me went up 200% and she started to get very serious. But remember everything is optional.

So, ask around about opportunities to attend such festas. If you speak okay conversational Porto. Then maybe a chance to meet people. If not, you get to see something of Brasil. For example, I got to hold the chicken to be slaughtered in a ceremony to ward off a spell that she believed was cast on her by a enemy who is a Mae of a casa of Macumba. I told her she was half-hearted, Yoruba people would have went all the way and drank the blood. She said, I fuck with blood. True, got my redwings from her and bareback since 2 hours after I met her. Considers me her enamorado, talks to me daily, and does not care who I screw as long as I maintain with her. Wild stuff.

So, for cultural experience and good uninhibited times, one of these Candomble followers is a good person to meet. Plenty of young ladies, pick you color, pick your social status, anyone can be met there. Ask around and look around until you find. Just be careful who you ask, of your associates or friends in RJ because I get the impression that even though your buddy might be really safado, still he might have some kind of moral issue with Candomble if he is in one of the more mainstream religions. Just be mindful.

[Esperma]

But also she got jealous and suspicious, and she started asking questions about my life. Same way as it goes with the women in my home country, except women in Brazil are worse, I don't fly to Brazil for that same old story, I did quit!

And now I pay only with real money, it is much cheaper!I have to agree, if you are just looking for sex and have low / moderate standards on sex performance, then P4P is the cheapest way to go. But, if you are looking for real GFE several times a day then a NP is the way to go. But it DOES cost more because the girls, like any other in the world, start to think that you are spending time with them because you feel emotional attachment, and they return what they think they are receiving. But CAREFUL with the non-pros, I have been with a NP before, paying for nothing except her BC pills long term, and she told me that yeah if her BC fails then she is coming to my country with her filho and we are going to be together 'pra sempre! ' So I watched her swallowing that pill every day.

[Esperma]

I have a non-pro that I have been seeing off an on in the hinterlands of RJ for almost a year, and maintaining long distance relationship between visits via net chat and calls. She speaks no English and tolerates my crappy porto. She is from a family, very old school that I did not even know existed. Really, I thought that all people there were just sexually free, because I only knew the monger side that is spoken of here, in Copa and Centro and VM. Now, I have met a girl that comes from a surbuban family, out west on the Super Via, that expects that a man comes there to meet the girl, and he does the dating, actually in the house on the sofa like this is some kind of parlor dating from 1800's. We don't do it that way, but they they expect her to live in the house until she is married and to help take care of the grandmother. They go irate and threaten to disown her if they think she is staying with me overnight because that is not something that a 'girl of the family' is supposed to do. When I met her, I told her basically that I was safado and had fucked many girls including hookers in RJ, Manila, Tokyo and many other places. I even told her in great detail about things like group sex and dominatrix. She is not phased at all by the fact that I am so safado, and I tell her things to vet her and think she will run but she does not. This girl, I believe has only been with 2 other men and she hid them from her parents. They treated her like shit. I have come in, since day one, and treated her sexually and emotionally like she is the last woman on earth, but I have never given her a centavo, and even when she literally had ony about R10 to her name, she never asked me for money. I told her, this is the principle, I have been around the world and know many piranhas, if you would like money, you should find another man. When this girl met me, she had talked to me for months before in the net, daily non stop she was sending me emails. Then we were fucking bareback within 2 hours after I met her in person, only to learn that she had not been on the pill. Nossa! I thought this girl is totally crazy. So, since then I have been back there and of course I bought her pills in Pachecho and fuck her bareback all the time and she will do anything. Fucks bareback, fucks on period, I told her I do not care who she fucks, but she seems to always be at the net wanting to talk endlessly, meaning 5-6 hours at at time, so I am fairly certain that she is not even fucking anyone else. I told her she can fuck anything, it does not matter. I come home from work. And she wants to talk on the net, sem fim, every night for months and months. It becomes overwhelming.

The parents treated me almost like criminal because they have the idea that gringos just come there for sex. The girl tells lies to them, to come and stay with me in apartments in RJ. I went everywhere with this girl to verify her college, her profession, her dentist, and she is always wanting to take me to these normal places and show me to her friends, so I can know her life. So, I am seeing in this girl, someone who is totally crazy and dedicated and open to everything. I saw how she barebacks with ease, and took anal even though much pain, and even was accepting when I told her of my history in S&M and wanted to introduce her to same stuff. I think maybe she is a keeper for this safado. I asked her if she would find it exciting to fuck tin the street in Centro on the weekend when no cops are around and she was excited about that. I am thinking, if she will fuck in the street like that, let us skip that and escalate this to see if she would swing. I am thinking of taking her to 2A2. If she is a keeper, I would expect her to swing in my country. Are there any tips that you can provide, for a girl like this, or taking a non-pro to 2A2? This girl is much different than other girls described here, but she tells me of friends that she has, who are also I guess, 'repressed' by family. This is good stuff. Repression!

[Sperto]

Fucks bareback, fucks on period, I told her I do not care who she fucks, but she seems to always be at the net wanting to talk endlessly, meaning 5-6 hours at at time, so I am fairly certain that she is not even fucking anyone else. I told her she can fuck anything, it does not matter.Your Gf sounds like fun, but regarding that Brazil have maybe up to 800'000 cases of HIV I find that barebacking and encouraging her to f*ck around a bit risky, but that's just me.

About the swinging. That's not my cup of tea. I wouldn't fancy watching my Gf get f*cked by other guys. However we have our 2a2 expert RioBob who can answer any question related to swinging.

[Rio Bob]

Are there any tips that you can provide, for a girl like this, or taking a non-pro to 2A2? This girl is much different than other girls described here, but she tells me of friends that she has, who are also I guess, 'repressed' by family. This is good stuff. Repression!On occasion you will come across a young couple, he will be all over your girl fast and when you go to approach his girl she backs off, the guy then says it's her first time here. Last time this happened the GDP I was with said to me, it's my first time here too, I laughed and said yeah but you're a working girl. Anyway, I usually say to these guys that's too bad for you and pull my girl away. Who knows what these guys tell these girls to get them there that maybe they will just watch and they don't have to do anything or maybe these guys know they won't do anything and try to fuck some other guys girl anyway. Only once did I let a guy be with my girl who was with a girl who was there for the first time, his girl was much better than mine so I fingered her while she jerked me off, it was wonderful.

Anyway, your girl might be very liberal with you and her agenda might be to secure something long term with you but she is being cool and not letting you know that so if that is the case I suspect she won't want you to see her being plowed by some other guy moaning and groaning in 2a2 because it will ruin your image of her and she knows that and then the game is over. It doesn't sound like you care for anything long term with her so bring her there anyway and see if you can trade her for something good, everybody uses condoms there. But I would bet she would be reluctant to fuck some other guy in front of you if she cares about you and is looking for something long term, if she is not and she is hot then she'll probably fuck half the place, have fun.

[Brazil Specialist]

i have a non-pro that i have been seeing off an on in the hinterlands of rj for almost a year, and maintaining long distance relationship between visits via net chat and calls. she speaks no english and tolerates my crappy porto. she is from a family, very old school that i did not even know existed. really, i thought that all people there were just sexually free, because i only knew the monger side that is spoken of here, in copa and centro and vm. now, i have met a girl that comes from a surbuban family, out west on the super via, that expects that a man comes there to meet the girl, and he does the dating, actually in the house on the sofa like this is some kind of parlor dating from 1800's. we don't do it that way, but they they expect her to live in the house until she is married and to help take care of the grandmother. they go irate and threaten to disown her if they think she is staying with me overnight because that is not something that a 'girl of the family' is supposed to do. when i met her, i told her basically that i was safado and had fucked many girls including hookers in rj, manila, tokyo and many other places. i even told her in great detail about things like group sex and dominatrix. she is not phased at all by the fact that i am so safado, and i tell her things to vet her and think she will run but she does not. this girl, i believe has only been with 2 other men and she hid them from her parents. they treated her like shit. i have come in, since day one, and treated her sexually and emotionally like she is the last woman on earth, but i have never given her a centavo, and even when she literally had ony about r10 to her name, she never asked me for money. i told her, this is the principle, i have been around the world and know many piranhas, if you would like money, you should find another man. when this girl met me, she had talked to me for months before in the net, daily non stop she was sending me emails. then we were fucking bareback within 2 hours after i met her in person, only to learn that she had not been on the pill. nossa! i thought this girl is totally crazy. so, since then i have been back there and of course i bought her pills in pachecho and fuck her bareback all the time and she will do anything. fucks bareback, fucks on period, i told her i do not care who she fucks, but she seems to always be at the net wanting to talk endlessly, meaning 5-6 hours at at time, so i am fairly certain that she is not even fucking anyone else. i told her she can fuck anything, it does not matter. i come home from work. and she wants to talk on the net, sem fim, every night for months and months. it becomes overwhelming.

the parents treated me almost like criminal because they have the idea that gringos just come there for sex. the girl tells lies to them, to come and stay with me in apartments in rj. i went everywhere with this girl to verify her college, her profession, her dentist, and she is always wanting to take me to these normal places and show me to her friends, so i can know her life. so, i am seeing in this girl, someone who is totally crazy and dedicated and open to everything. i saw how she barebacks with ease, and took anal even though much pain, and even was accepting when i told her of my history in s&m and wanted to introduce her to same stuff. i think maybe she is a keeper for this safado. i asked her if she would find it exciting to fuck tin the street in centro on the weekend when no cops are around and she was excited about that. i am thinking, if she will fuck in the street like that, let us skip that and escalate this to see if she would swing. i am thinking of taking her to 2a2. if she is a keeper, i would expect her to swing in my country. are there any tips that you can provide, for a girl like this, or taking a non-pro to 2a2? this girl is much different than other girls described here, but she tells me of friends that she has, who are also i guess, 'repressed' by family. this is good stuff. repression!she reminds me of the daughter of my 100% religious christian cleaning lady. the first one had her 15 year party in the church in the presence of the priest. the second one, at 14, behaves very safada, but not sure if she actually f. cks around. probably not.

anyway, i have lots of concerns. the girl is the typical repressed girl. like in the us, she has no clue about pregnancy and disease.

i would not take her to a swing party. first of all, she might meet someone she knows. that would be a general disaster for you and her. don't deceive yourself, a rich brazilian family can fuck you over royally. not just a hit killing. it is so easy for a police friend to hide a pound of drugs in your stuff and find it. or find someone to accuse you of ****philia. and if they find you at 2a2, that might drive them over the top.

also the girl. maybe you appreciate you have a girl that is faithful and allows you to screw around. what more do you want?

if you spoil her further, to have her screw around, it probably will be of no advantage for you. if you have to spoil her further, try to get her to do lesbian. but even that, probably not a good idea.

contact me if you want to talk in person. i might get you in contact with brazilians who also might advise you.

[Esperma]

Thanks for the advice Sperto, Sangue Bon and Brazil Specialist.

I think my lesson from all this, is what the infamous Hughdad, and others have said in the past, forget about the P4P in RJ and focus on non-pro. I felt like I had an epiphany, when I finally left the P4P scene and entered the non-pro scene. Guys are thinking that you need to spend lots of time there to hookup with non-pros. All it requires it rudimentary Portuguese and spending some time away from the tourist scenes. By tourist scenes, I mean leave RJ proper, Zona Sul and Centro / Lapa and spend some time out in the burbs just giving attention to girls at barzinhos. It does not require you to spend time there like some, or expat, just go out there and extend yourself even if you feel like a lame gringo. There are a ton of girls out there looking for gringo. Then your task is to find out who is piranha, and who is regular freebie for fucking, and maybe one is LTR, even with options like this. Always your option.

[Esperma]

Sorry for the second post on the same topic.

Sperto, your concern about HIV is very real. Here is a monger, coming from a long history of BBFS in places like Manila Bay and Top Gun / Jakarta BBFS garotas, and finding himself in a situation with non-pros in Rio who, knowing all this, and knowing that I was a monger in the worst places, still take it bareback if I buy them BC pills at Pachechgo. From their perspective, this gringo is still better than the safados in Brasil who maintain seperate lives, apartments for girlfriends, kids with girlfriends. The worst guy in Bangkok with HIV from some LB, can come into Rio, tell his story and still looks better than BR guys "muito safado" that pay for multiple girlfriends and do nothing but sit aroud drinking cerveja. Non-pros will look at him, think he is STILL less safado and better than a Brasilian guy, they want you more, and think he is a better option and bareback him to please their man. This says, be careful in RJ and wear you camisinha. You might not be the first.

[Eric Cartman]

Your Gf sounds like fun, but regarding that Brazil have maybe up to 800'000 cases of HIV I find that barebacking and encouraging her to f*ck around a bit risky, but that's just me.

About the swinging. That's not my cup of tea. I wouldn't fancy watching my Gf get f*cked by other guys. However we have our 2a2 expert RioBob who can answer any question related to swinging.It's not my cup of tea either. But I just heard that a former GDP I'm seeing about every week or every other week is actually VERY into it. She makes her loser boyfriend take her to some swing club in Recreio (?). Anyway I was encouraged to take her to a club, as apparently she is very bi and loves it. I have to somehow bring this up in conversation.

Any tips on where to go? Best time to arrive. Etiquette? What do you do, walk around naked, pilled up on V, with a sash of condoms? .

-Cartman

[Prosal]

This says, be careful in RJ and wear you camisinha. You might not be the first.You don't have to worry. Brasileiras (non-pros) have been brainwashed against BB sex. Most are talibans about it. It's one of the reasons why Brasil is off my list.

[Rio Bob]

It's not my cup of tea either. But I just heard that a former GDP I'm seeing about every week or every other week is actually VERY into it. She makes her loser boyfriend take her to some swing club in Recreio (?). Anyway I was encouraged to take her to a club, as apparently she is very bi and loves it. I have to somehow bring this up in conversation.

Any tips on where to go? Best time to arrive. Etiquette? What do you do, walk around naked, pilled up on V, with a sash of condoms? .

-CartmanRecreio has the Paris Cafe, they have swing on Sundays in the summer with an outdoor pool area in the afternoon, I have never been but it has been on om radar for a long time.

In Barra at Praia do Pepe 400 there is a termas, on Saturday night this 400 club turns into Heny Club, some guy hosts a big swing party with his wife, you get there at 11PM, sit in the boite with you girl, have a drink, dance and check out the talent. Sometimes the D-J will shut the lights off so dark you can't see anything so try to be next to a hot couple and everybody gropes each other, lots of fun. At midnight everybody is allowed to go upstairs where all the rooms are for the termas, all the doors are open, this is where the fun begins, just position yourself next to an attractive couple and see if you come together, sometimes yes and sometimes no but at the end of the night you have had more yeses than No's.

Then there is 2A2 in Copa, it was built as a swing club, get there at 11:30, go into the boite, they have live music, live shows throughout the night, I believe it is the friendliest place, in all these places you keep your clothes on. This place you can go upstairs to the swing area any time you want. You go upstairs and anything can happen, sometimes you get approached right away and sometimes you have to work for it but at the end of the night usually you are fucked out. You can hang in the hallway, many couples lean up against the wall and kiss, if you see a couple that looks interesting stand next to them and kiss your girl. You can feel the vibes of the couple next to you, sometimes the other guy will move his hand over to your girl and touch her leg or ass and then you make your move to his girl. If everybody agrees then you get closer and right in the hallway you usually start kissing his girl and groping her, next step is someone says lets find a room where you all go off together and fuck, sometimes with the door open and sometimes with the door locked. If it's open other couples just look in and other couples come in and join the fun. The place starts to slow down by 3 to 4 am so the night goes very fast, sometimes too fast like a blur.

[Eric Cartman]

Thanks for the solid info & write-up Sangue Bon. Good intel and report that is a credit to the board.

-Cartman

[Esperma]

My friend in RJ tells me, quite the opposite. I am told that many girls in RJ bareback Brasileiros all the time with hopes of get knocked up. Anyone with money or who has a relative in a political position, his dick is a like a gold mine for the average woman, every sperm a Real in the future. For gringos, it is different because there is the idea that yes they might be 'rico' but they will run if they knock you up, so there is no point in laying it on the line for a gringo.

I do not see a problem with getting bareback after establishing some kind of connection with a girl, even pros. Everyone is against that, but it is a personal choice like eating red meat or smoking. My belief is that the risk of HIV in the non-sex worker population is low. More likely that you get killed trying to cross Ave Atlantica by one of those crazy macho Brasilian drivers, when their hands touch the wheel they become Ayrton Senna reincarnated. Everyplace in the world seems to have McDonalds. Most girls from east to west do accept the idea, when you go to McDonalds and eat the hamburger, do you unwrap it, or bite through the paper and eat it that way? In Brasil they love wax paper and will say "No, I hold it with the paper". Then why do you want dick with a wrapper? Dick as hamburger. Yes, if you BB too much!

Crossing Brasil off the list would be a big mistake. This is almost as good as that treasure PI, but the difference is that in BR they have all the concepts of passion, plus the whole idea of saudades, and go "in heat" if they find the right guy, whereas Phils girls have no passion, just looking for you to be gold mine for their entire family plus their sick water buffalo. But yeah they will bring their cousin too. Maybe the FSU is better than all this.


You don't have to worry. Brasileiras (non-pros) have been brainwashed against BB sex. Most are talibans about it. It's one of the reasons why Brasil is off my list.

[Sperto]

My friend in RJ tells me, quite the opposite. I am told that many girls in RJ bareback Brasileiros all the time with hopes of get knocked up. Anyone with money or who has a relative in a political position, his dick is a like a gold mine for the average woman, every sperm a Real in the future. For gringos, it is different because there is the idea that yes they might be 'rico' but they will run if they knock you up, so there is no point in laying it on the line for a gringo.
I do not see a problem with getting bareback after establishing some kind of connection with a girl, even pros. Everyone is against that, but it is a personal choice like eating red meat or smoking. My belief is that the risk of HIV in the non-sex worker population is low. More likely that you get killed trying to cross Ave Atlantica by one of those crazy macho Brasilian drivers, when their hands touch the wheel they become Ayrton Senna reincarnated. Everyplace in the world seems to have McDonalds. Most girls from east to west do accept the idea, when you go to McDonalds and eat the hamburger, do you unwrap it, or bite through the paper and eat it that way? In Brasil they love wax paper and will say "No, I hold it with the paper". Then why do you want dick with a wrapper? Dick as hamburger. Yes, if you BB too much!
Even if you don't worry about the 800'000 cases of HIV (or other venereal disease), don't you have any concern for her getting pregnant (unless you're sure she's on the pills)?
I assume you wouldn't "run" and give a f*ck about your responsibilities if she got knocked up.

[Rani2206]

HIV cases regards often tgirls don't forget it guys.

[DJ FourMoney]

My friend in RJ tells me, quite the opposite. I am told that many girls in RJ bareback Brasileiros all the time with hopes of get knocked up. Anyone with money or who has a relative in a political position, his dick is a like a gold mine for the average woman, every sperm a Real in the future. For gringos, it is different because there is the idea that yes they might be 'rico' but they will run if they knock you up, so there is no point in laying it on the line for a gringo.

I do not see a problem with getting bareback after establishing some kind of connection with a girl, even pros. Everyone is against that, but it is a personal choice like eating red meat or smoking. My belief is that the risk of HIV in the non-sex worker population is low. More likely that you get killed trying to cross Ave Atlantica by one of those crazy macho Brasilian drivers, when their hands touch the wheel they become Ayrton Senna reincarnated. Everyplace in the world seems to have McDonalds. Most girls from east to west do accept the idea, when you go to McDonalds and eat the hamburger, do you unwrap it, or bite through the paper and eat it that way? In Brasil they love wax paper and will say "No, I hold it with the paper". Then why do you want dick with a wrapper? Dick as hamburger. Yes, if you BB too much!

Crossing Brasil off the list would be a big mistake. This is almost as good as that treasure PI, but the difference is that in BR they have all the concepts of passion, plus the whole idea of saudades, and go "in heat" if they find the right guy, whereas Phils girls have no passion, just looking for you to be gold mine for their entire family plus their sick water buffalo. But yeah they will bring their cousin too. Maybe the FSU is better than all this.I'd cross off PI, I'm not into short, dark Asian women as that is what the majority of Westerns have access too. Not to mention what you said which is mostly right since like in many societies, the darker you are the poorer you generally are. Middle Class and Rich Flips have no need for middle age Western men. The dirty little secret of all this is we are using our economic advantage (which is shrinking) to date women usually younger and better looking that what we have access too in most Western countries.

If I am careful I get 7-8's anywhere, if I'm sloppy like many men seem to be, you know "Pussy is Pussy" then I can fuck 5-4's too, no thanks.

[Mr Enternational]

The dirty little secret of all this is we are using our economic advantage (which is shrinking) to date women usually younger and better lookingThat is no secret at all and happens everywhere. Picture Hugh Hefner or that guy that Ana Nicole Smith married.

[Bimbo Boy]

My friend in RJ tells me, quite the opposite. I am told that many girls in RJ bareback Brasileiros all the time with hopes of get knocked up. Anyone with money or who has a relative in a political position, his dick is a like a gold mine for the average woman, every sperm a Real in the future. For gringos, it is different because there is the idea that yes they might be 'rico' but they will run if they knock you up, so there is no point in laying it on the line for a gringo.My young (half my age) and poor girlfriend in SP called me the other day and told me that she was pregnant. I was very surprized because even if I do her bareback, I had taken my precautions. Since abortion is illegal in Brazil, I proposed her to do it in Europe. She then decided to travel back to her family in the Nordeste in order to end the pregnancy with a local witch doctor. Finally a second exam showed that the first pregnancy test was a medical error. She is now suing the first clinic!

Many lessons in this short adventure: first, even if she is poor, my Brazilian girlfriend is honest and is not trying to get knocked up and extort Reals from me. Second, medical services are quite unreliable in Brazil!

Regards. B. B.

[Ricker]

My young (half my age) and poor girlfriend in SP called me the other day and told me that she was pregnant. I was very surprized because even if I do her bareback, I had taken my precautions. Since abortion is illegal in Brazil, I proposed her to do it in Europe. She then decided to travel back to her family in the Nordeste in order to end the pregnancy with a local witch doctor. Finally a second exam showed that the first pregnancy test was a medical error. She is now suing the first clinic!

Many lessons in this short adventure: first, even if she is poor, my Brazilian girlfriend is honest and is not trying to get knocked up and extort Reals from me. Second, medical services are quite unreliable in Brazil!

Regards. B. B.Be careful amigos.

I had a buddy (married, USA) who met a lady in an upscale club in Sao Paulo and they ended up getting it on a bit.

After about a month or so, she tells him that she is pregnant.

Because she already had a visa to enter England, he sent her there with money for an abortion.

Once she got there, she said she changed her mind about the abortion, and she spent the money on whatever.

Then a couple weeks later she said she now, has changed her mind again, and wants the abortion but needs him to send the funding.

When he doesn't respond in the way she wanted, she threatened to find and call his US family.

This blackmail could have and probably would have gone on for a while, demanding more.

I discussed this quite a bit with my buddy, and we figured the best plan of attack was to just say No, and call her bluff, otherwise it would just go on and on.

I doubt now that she was even ever pregnant, though she did show him some papers, but they could have easily been a fraud.

Once he called her bluff, telling her that he had already seperated from his wife, inviting her (the Brasileira) to do whatever she wanted and to bug off, she just disappeared.

Bottom line, be smart.

There are obviously some great Brasileiras out there. My best girlfriend ever, the one I have now is a sweetheart from the NE Brasil.

As we all know though, there are some real sharks out there.

Be smart!

[Bimbo Boy]

Be careful amigos.

I had a buddy (married, USA) who met a lady in an upscale club in Sao Paulo and they ended up getting it on a bit.

After about a month or so, she tells him that she is pregnant.

Because she already had a visa to enter England, he sent her there with money for an abortion.

Once she got there, she said she changed her mind about the abortion, and she spent the money on whatever.

Then a couple weeks later she said she now, has changed her mind again, and wants the abortion but needs him to send the funding.

When he doesn't respond in the way she wanted, she threatened to find and call his US family.

This blackmail could have and probably would have gone on for a while, demanding more.

I discussed this quite a bit with my buddy, and we figured the best plan of attack was to just say No, and call her bluff, otherwise it would just go on and on.

I doubt now that she was even ever pregnant, though she did show him some papers, but they could have easily been a fraud.

Once he called her bluff, telling her that he had already seperated from his wife, inviting her (the Brasileira) to do whatever she wanted and to bug off, she just disappeared.

Bottom line, be smart.

There are obviously some great Brasileiras out there. My best girlfriend ever, the one I have now is a sweetheart from the NE Brasil.

As we all know though, there are some real sharks out there.

Be smart!Thanks for the wise words and sharing the experience.

Actually, I have been with the girl for a few years, and I would not mind having a child with her.

Another piece of advice : never recognize a baby unless you've performed a DNA test with a sample you took yourself.

Regards.

[Ricker]

Thanks for the wise words and sharing the experience.Um praçer. :)

[Sui Generis]

Um praçer. :)Praçer?

Do you mean prazer?

[Ricker]

Praçer?

Do you mean prazer?Yep, I was taking a guess, thanks for the correction

[InTheMix123]

Hey everyone,

Lots of great info here, but I have a few questions.

Does anyone have any strategies for IDing gringo-friendly non-pros or "semi-pros" on dating sites? What are the best sites, primarily for Rio?

For an alternate facebook account (I assume that's what everyone uses) , how do you go about getting your first few friends so you don't seem like an absolute weirdo? I am a Rio n00b so don't have any contacts yet. Do I just have to wait until I make some connections in person?

PM me if you'd like to be more low-key about your methods.

Thanks in advance

[DJ FourMoney]

Hey everyone,

Lots of great info here, but I have a few questions.

Does anyone have any strategies for IDing gringo-friendly non-pros or "semi-pros" on dating sites? What are the best sites, primarily for Rio?

For an alternate facebook account (I assume that's what everyone uses) , how do you go about getting your first few friends so you don't seem like an absolute weirdo? I am a Rio n00b so don't have any contacts yet. Do I just have to wait until I make some connections in person?

PM me if you'd like to be more low-key about your methods.

Thanks in advanceI use Latin Euro. The majority of Brazilian women are from the Sao Paulo area. Its a US based site and has been around since the mid 90's. They may run adverts in countries listed as most popular on their search engine, I don't know.

I have found enough women I found attractive to have over 150 favorites I have to somehow narrow down to 100 for $99 or a $1 each contact information, most have phone numbers.

I have made some contacts with some other Brazilian women via Facebook, specifically my dawg's friends list.

I figure between all this and hitting the nightlife it shouldn't take long for a LTR to emerge. My plan is to stay at least a month if not longer, much longer.

[Poucolouco]

Hey everyone,

Lots of great info here, but I have a few questions.

Does anyone have any strategies for IDing gringo-friendly non-pros or "semi-pros" on dating sites? What are the best sites, primarily for Rio?

For an alternate facebook account (I assume that's what everyone uses) , how do you go about getting your first few friends so you don't seem like an absolute weirdo? I am a Rio n00b so don't have any contacts yet. Do I just have to wait until I make some connections in person?

PM me if you'd like to be more low-key about your methods.

Thanks in advanceTry Parperfeito. Com It has enough selection criteria to narrow down your search and weed out what you are not looking for.

[DomingoHerr]

Quick question: what are the rates for

1) regular sex, one time

2) handjob at a massage parlor or something like that (any location advices near Ipanema?)

I was just at barbarellas and they asked for 500 R$ for regular sex and it sounded just like a ripoff. Help appreciated! Thanks guys

[Exec Talent]

Quick question: what are the rates for

1) regular sex, one time

2) handjob at a massage parlor or something like that (any location advices near Ipanema?)

I was just at barbarellas and they asked for 500 R$ for regular sex and it sounded just like a ripoff. Help appreciated! Thanks guysThis is the non-pro thread, so you pay nothing. Nothing that is if you are charming, funny and speak Portuguese.

In your case, you had better hit the ATM. But, be sure to read the Rio Reports thread because there are new limits on ATM withdrawals.

[Exec Talent]

Was at the Feira de São Cristóvão last night (it is open from Friday night until Sunday night) and was overwhelmed by number of hot unattached women.

http://www.feiradesaocristovao.org.br/#

Do not know what the odds would be for someone who can't dance and speak Portuguese but if you do, this is now a great place to meet a non-GDP.

[Sperto]

Was at the Feira de São Cristóvão last night (it is open from Friday night until Sunday night) and was overwhelmed by number of hot unattached women.
http://www.feiradesaocristovao.org.br/#
Do not know what the odds would be for someone who can't dance and speak Portuguese but if you do, this is now a great place to meet a non-GDP.
I agree, the Feira is excellent for meeting regular girls.

Remember that there are a lot of options at Feira de São Cristóvão. The two areas with the big stages, at least four mini stages with traditional Forró Pé da Serra, one well hidden reggae disco, one two-floor discotheque and lots of bars with dancing. Also there are several dozens of good restaurants.

The majority of the women are from (or descendents) Nordeste. There are many beautiful girls and also a big share of chubby girls with football-heads and no necks. The people who go there are very open, friendly and easy-going. With some efforts it shouldn't be a problem scoring at Feira de São Cristóvão.

[Jan 156]

And if you can't shuffle a bit of forro, just ask someone nicely to show you. It's like Porto. They'll usually tell you your humble attempts are really good. I agree a little basic Porto is helpful though. The alternative is if you are a really good dancer (preferably forro) you can silently invite someone to dance and show off a bit. Or just enjoy the atmosphere. At least it's just ordinary middle class people. Not the posher crowds of the fancier places.

[Mangera]

Was at the Feira de São Cristóvão last night (it is open from Friday night until Sunday night) and was overwhelmed by number of hot unattached women.

http://www.feiradesaocristovao.org.br/#

Do not know what the odds would be for someone who can't dance and speak Portuguese but if you do, this is now a great place to meet a non-GDP.Your statement about F. De Sao. Crist. Is true. However, it is also important for the newbie to also understand that quite a few gdps attend this event during their non-working hours. I always go a few times during my visits to Rio. I have been their solo, with a date, and with large groups of friends from the northern part of Brazil. Its definitely worth going just for the food, drinks, music, and dancing. Enjoy!

[Brazil Specialist]

Then there is 2A2 in Copa, it was built as a swing club, get there at 11:30, go into the boite, they have live music, live shows throughout the night, I believe it is the friendliest place, in all these places you keep your clothes on. This place you can go upstairs to the swing area any time you want. You go upstairs and anything can happen, sometimes you get approached right away and sometimes you have to work for it but at the end of the night usually you are fucked out. You can hang in the hallway, many couples lean up against the wall and kiss, if you see a couple that looks interesting stand next to them and kiss your girl. You can feel the vibes of the couple next to you, sometimes the other guy will move his hand over to your girl and touch her leg or ass and then you make your move to his girl. If everybody agrees then you get closer and right in the hallway you usually start kissing his girl and groping her, next step is someone says lets find a room where you all go off together and fuck, sometimes with the door open and sometimes with the door locked. If it's open other couples just look in and other couples come in and join the fun. The place starts to slow down by 3 to 4 am so the night goes very fast, sometimes too fast like a blur.2a2 is not a termas, it is a boate.

They do not have showers (or has that changed?)

So I personally compare the hygiene there to Vila Mimosa. Nobody takes a shower, everyone has the bodily fluids of half a dozen people on their dicks and hands.

Otherwise it would be a nice place.

How is the hygiene at other places? Termas, obviously, have showers somewhere, usually even in the room

[DJ FourMoney]

Try Parperfeito. Com It has enough selection criteria to narrow down your search and weed out what you are not looking for.Thanks for the tip on the web site. Looks good, not interesting in semi-prosatall. But its easy to eliminate those profiles from any search.

I really don't understand the pursuit of semi-pros like there is going to be some difference. You can treat a GDP like an actual woman and take her out to a party or dinner and the results will be the same as with a semi-pro.

My two centavos and I'm sticking with it.

[Exec Talent]

Walking along Rua Barata Ribeiro I pass an absolutely gorgeous girl with her gringo in tow. With such a beauty on his arm, he should be smiling from ear to ear but instead he has a scowl on his face. She looks like she is going to throw up at any moment. Even if you are paying, your experience in Brazil will be enhanced 100% by learning a little Portuguese. If you have any hopes of scoring with a non-pro, speaking Portuguese is a must. I bring this up because in my five trips so far this year, how do I meet and make it with a local, is by far the most popular question in route.

[DJ FourMoney]

Walking along Rua Barata Ribeiro I pass an absolutely gorgeous girl with her gringo in tow. With such a beauty on his arm, he should be smiling from ear to ear but instead he has a scowl on his face. She looks like she is going to throw up at any moment. Even if you are paying, your experience in Brazil will be enhanced 100% by learning a little Portuguese. If you have any hopes of scoring with a non-pro, speaking Portuguese is a must. I bring this up because in my five trips so far this year, how do I meet and make it with a local, is by far the most popular question in route.I agree and I am learning (slowly). It will pick up once I hit town. My friend speaks English fluently so she can help me (no sexual interest).

[Aaragon1977]

I have been a long time monger and have experience with working girls in many parts of the world. Thanks to the info on this website I have seen the Terma's, balcony bar and other places mentioned on this site.

Honestly, I haven't found any girl in these places that comes close to the non-working girls that you see on the bus, ferry, club etc. Rio probably has the best looking girls (my opinion) among all the places I have been to.

I just got back to my hotel in Niteroi it is 12. 20 Am here, there is a bus stop close to my hotel and there are 8 young hotties girls dressed in club wear waiting for a bus. I don't have much experience with European cities except Amsterdam and London but I don't think I have ever seen a sight like this.

I tried talking to them but they didn't know English or acted like they didn't understand what I was saying.

Anyway, my point is if you ever plan on coming to Brazil and want to pick up women learn Portuguese, without which you would be limited to the below average looking girls in the Terma's.

[Sperto]

So, I want to ask the board, which has been a little quiet lately: How does one get a Rio Non Pro, like the girls on the link to a post from Sperto, into bed?

First of all, compliments to Sperto. Your reports and guide are the key to my getting to a mongering level I had not obtained before discovering ISG in 2011, after a few Rio trips.

Second, where was this convention again? The girls in the fotos are just awesome. Obviously not GDPs either. Which is really nice. The thing about a pernoite, or even 2+ hours with a working girl is that the pillow talk inevitably turns to. Work. And if work is getting dicked down by 4 guys a day, then one spends time listening to stuff that is less than appealing.

I've had the following experience with non pros:

Aug 2013. Got a real date with a biz girl, from a biz convention. No sex, hardly even a kiss good night, but one of the highlights of the trip as I was going on 2+ weeks of daily sex with 2 to 4 working girls for 60 to 120 minutes. I mean, strange as it sounds, I loved a real date with a real girl who gets up and goes to a really good job, comes from a good family, all that kind of stuff.

Got a phone number from a check out girl at a sucos stand in Lapa. Hot little girl, morena, mulatta. I immediately texted her, quiero encontro com vc. So, I was just the horny gringo monger.

July 2009. Went to Manaus to meet a girl that I had struck up a long distance cyber dating thing with via brazilcupid. She was a professional. Went there for two weeks. I had no GDPs for two weeks. I did have sex with her a bunch of times in a hotel near her work. Went out with her professional friends to lots of dinners. Went out for weekend trips. It was great. She was great. The sex wasn't as great as it was with pros, which that year included a real porn star or with the top GDPs in Rio. So, being a man, I went back to Rio in August, and banged and banged and banged.

So, my question is where does one go to find girls at a convention like this? This seems really great, since the girls are selected for their beauty, but they are not GDPs. And being the gringo, there are some advantages. What are the advantages? Specifically, what does one wear? What are the specific details? This may be like Mongering 102.

Oh, and I have some other specific ideas on this. But, this will have to be shared by PM for reasons of operational security.

Sperto wrote:

Some beautiful girls who worked at a convention in Rio, March 2013.

Hundreds of stands. Free beer, drinks and food. Roughly a thousand of sexy hostesses. I tipped you all off about this convention. Hopefully some of you made it there.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2194-Photo-Gallery&p=1407158&viewfull=1#post1407158Patmar, I answer you here to avoid clustering the Rio thread.

Where to find such convention girls? The short answer would be, at a convention. At least if you want a large quantity of them.

Where is the best place to find non-pro's in Brazil have been discussed many times in this Brazil forum. I don't think there are any "right answers". It's very individual.

You can meet them at Lapa, Feira the Paraíba, discos, after works clubs, cafés, supermercados, shoppings, gym, beach etc. Just keep your eyes open and you'll find lots of opportunities. Of course it helps if you have more than 1-2 weeks to spend in Brazil.

Some clubs are better than other to meet non-pro's. These clubs usually have no gringos frequenting them. I have a few favourite clubs where me and my friends have been extra successful. No way I'll share the names of these clubs on this forum. That would ruin the clubs.

[PatmarBeleza1]

I took a pro out to dinner before going back to the apartment for the deed. It was one of the best experiences I had. Being with a girl that hot out at a nice restaurant in Leblon. Come to think of it I had gone out to the same restaurant, Fellinis buffet a kilo with a pro who was not working for a month after lipo surgery, Fabia Gouveia, in December 2010.

I have a broader question. Can a pro, GDP ever become a real girlfriend after her working career ends? I am sure that this has been discussed a thousand times here, but still just asking.


Thanks for the tip on the web site. Looks good, not interesting in semi-prosatall. But its easy to eliminate those profiles from any search.

I really don't understand the pursuit of semi-pros like there is going to be some difference. You can treat a GDP like an actual woman and take her out to a party or dinner and the results will be the same as with a semi-pro.

My two centavos and I'm sticking with it.

[PatmarBeleza1]

What are the best dating sites to meet a Brazilian professional woman (doctor, lawyer, banker) at the age of 20-25? I tried Brazilcupid in 2009 and did in fact meet such a woman. Just asking about what the universe is?

[DJ FourMoney]

I took a pro out to dinner before going back to the apartment for the deed. It was one of the best experiences I had. Being with a girl that hot out at a nice restaurant in Leblon. Come to think of it I had gone out to the same restaurant, Fellinis buffet a kilo with a pro who was not working for a month after lipo surgery, Fabia Gouveia, in December 2010.

I have a broader question. Can a pro, GDP ever become a real girlfriend after her working career ends? I am sure that this has been discussed a thousand times here, but still just asking.Sure, there are members here married to former prostitutes. At the end of the day they are still women and still have the same dreams most women have. You just need to be careful and be smart.

Usually the career ends when she marries but you need to make sure she has marketable job skills and willing to use them or she'll go back to what she knows best, usually behind your back.

[Mr Enternational]

Can a pro, GDP ever become a real girlfriend after her working career ends? I am sure that this has been discussed a thousand times here, but still just asking.Why even think of such a question? Did anyone in here parents raise them to go out and find a hooker or ex-hooker to date seriously? A person wouldn't do it at home, so why go overseas to do it? There are enough normal ass women running around that one should not have to even consider it. Sure I know that it's just a job and hookers are people too. But old habits die hard. The odds are not in your favor. Of the cases I know, the women still fucked with other guys, they just no longer got paid for it.

I'm in the habit of having a different woman everyday; pros and non-pros. It would have to be some heavy duty shaking of the earth to get me to concentrate all of my energy on just one woman starting tomorrow. Shit just isn't going to happen. All in all, there are women you fuck and there are women you date. Why confuse the two? As the saying here in Thailand goes, guys come here to date hookers and fuck normal women.

I was in a buddy's bar last night and I didn't see one familiar face among the girls. I asked him what happened to the ones I knew. He said in the last 10 months 11 of his hookers have gotten married and moved to Europe. He added that he would be glad when they break up so they can get their asses back to work!

[PatmarBeleza1]

ISG member I was with in Rio was saying that it is never possible in his experience to have a real relationship with a GDP, former working girl. When they end working, even if you have or had a mini relationship with them, they cut off all those contacts from their working life. His rule is no emotional involvement with GDPs, and he has a apt in copacobana near terma MC, so he has lots of experience with this issue.

Of course, objectively, logically, you're right. Could never realistically go from P4P to a real relationship.

But, when you find a P4P relationship with optimal sex, it's always a natural desire to keep that hot piece of ass around on a regular basis.

It does come out to cost and benefit. How much money, time, etc is spent in investing in a real dating relationship? Dinner, transportation, entertainment. As has been said, its easier, cheaper to just get a top P4P.

I think the mini relationship with the top GDPs fills a niche. Finding and getting mini relationships with non pros is a goal, but finding the ones who perform well for sex is the challenge. Generally, there are not message boards for their past performance!

For my part, part of my preparation for the next trip, probably soon, is thinking this through while detached from what I really love, Brazilian female ass of the best quality!


Why even think of such a question? Did anyone in here parents raise them to go out and find a hooker or ex-hooker to date seriously? A person wouldn't do it at home, so why go overseas to do it? There are enough normal ass women running around that one should not have to even consider it. Sure I know that it's just a job and hookers are people too. But old habits die hard. The odds are not in your favor. Of the cases I know, the women still fucked with other guys, they just no longer got paid for it.

I'm in the habit of having a different woman everyday; pros and non-pros. It would have to be some heavy duty shaking of the earth to get me to concentrate all of my energy on just one woman starting tomorrow. Shit just isn't going to happen. All in all, there are women you fuck and there are women you date. Why confuse the two? As the saying here in Thailand goes, guys come here to date hookers and fuck normal women.

I was in a buddy's bar last night and I didn't see one familiar face among the girls. I asked him what happened to the ones I knew. He said in the last 10 months 11 of his hookers have gotten married and moved to Europe. He added that he would be glad when they break up so they can get their asses back to work!

[BlancoVikingo]

You can certainly have a serious relationship with a former GDP.

Just sign all papers the right way in case of a probable divorce. The odds are against you.

But we can not get that cynical that we abandone Romance to 100.

I have been like Mr. Enternational. A new girl everyday. But you fall in love. Get fooled, but as I said, as long you keep your papers in order and don't give away your life's saving in case of a divorce, there will be no harm done to you. If she leaves you, you can, for a while, be addicted to a certain kind of sadness, that's part of life, in which refextion and new ideas are born!


ISG member I was with in Rio was saying that it is never possible in his experience to have a real relationship with a GDP, former working girl. When they end working, even if you have or had a mini relationship with them, they cut off all those contacts from their working life. His rule is no emotional involvement with GDPs, and he has a apt in copacobana near terma MC, so he has lots of experience with this issue.

Of course, objectively, logically, you're right. Could never realistically go from P4P to a real relationship.

But, when you find a P4P relationship with optimal sex, it's always a natural desire to keep that hot piece of ass around on a regular basis.

It does come out to cost and benefit. How much money, time, etc is spent in investing in a real dating relationship? Dinner, transportation, entertainment. As has been said, its easier, cheaper to just get a top P4P.

I think the mini relationship with the top GDPs fills a niche. Finding and getting mini relationships with non pros is a goal, but finding the ones who perform well for sex is the challenge. Generally, there are not message boards for their past performance!

For my part, part of my preparation for the next trip, probably soon, is thinking this through while detached from what I really love, Brazilian female ass of the best quality!

[Eric Cartman]

Why even think of such a question? Did anyone in here parents raise them to go out and find a hooker or ex-hooker to date seriously? A person wouldn't do it at home, so why go overseas to do it? There are enough normal ass women running around that one should not have to even consider it. Sure I know that it's just a job and hookers are people too. But old habits die hard. The odds are not in your favor. Of the cases I know, the women still fucked with other guys, they just no longer got paid for it.

I'm in the habit of having a different woman everyday; pros and non-pros. It would have to be some heavy duty shaking of the earth to get me to concentrate all of my energy on just one woman starting tomorrow. Shit just isn't going to happen. All in all, there are women you fuck and there are women you date. Why confuse the two? As the saying here in Thailand goes, guys come here to date hookers and fuck normal women.

I was in a buddy's bar last night and I didn't see one familiar face among the girls. I asked him what happened to the ones I knew. He said in the last 10 months 11 of his hookers have gotten married and moved to Europe. He added that he would be glad when they break up so they can get their asses back to work!I do still like quite a few of the GDPs and former GDPs (who have retired) that I know. I've been lucky to meet some sweet girls who remain nice even after they step out of the business. That said, sometimes letting them slip away seems to be the best approach. I've been friend with a bunch on FB, and I give their posts the occasional Like, or a post the occasional comment on a photo they posted etc. The other day, one I liked a lot, who is engaged to a PMRJ guy, posted a picture of her with her goddaughter or something, and I posted a "how pretty!" comment, which in turn lead to her hubby-to-be basically telling me to fuck off and threatening me in a reply comment. Jeez. Unfriended. That's why I keep my profile private.

[FuckAfMedDig]

I do still like quite a few of the GDPs and former GDPs (who have retired) that I know. I've been lucky to meet some sweet girls who remain nice even after they step out of the business. That said, sometimes letting them slip away seems to be the best approach. I've been friend with a bunch on FB, and I give their posts the occasional Like, or a post the occasional comment on a photo they posted etc. The other day, one I liked a lot, who is engaged to a PMRJ guy, posted a picture of her with her goddaughter or something, and I posted a "how pretty!" comment, which in turn lead to her hubby-to-be basically telling me to fuck off and threatening me in a reply comment. Jeez. Unfriended. That's why I keep my profile private.I stay friendly with them all and make friends with their friends on FB at the same time. Their friends's friends then start hitting me up.

Nothing wrong with being decent-they are human beings after all.

Some are cold as a result of the whole process of that life undoubtedly but some, like Eric said, are nice chicks. As long as I make it clear we won't be Namorado / namorada but we can be friends-everything gets less personal of course and communication less frequent which is a ***** fro my portugese but more clear.

I look forward to my 3rd trip in November, not entirely sure what to expect from some past places and gdps but I'm always up for new challenges and 2 gdps from last time will gets repeats + a few at centro spots I spotted but didn't nail. I'm even contemplating grabbing Beyonce 2 at Centaurus on my birthday for the hell of it and to coerse her into freeness outside. Keep going Cartman!

[FuckAfMedDig]

You can certainly have a serious relationship with a former GDP.

Just sign all papers the right way in case of a probable divorce. The odds are against you.

But we can not get that cynical that we abandone Romance to 100.

I have been like Mr. Enternational. A new girl everyday. But you fall in love. Get fooled, but as I said, as long you keep your papers in order and don't give away your life's saving in case of a divorce, there will be no harm done to you. If she leaves you, you can, for a while, be addicted to a certain kind of sadness, that's part of life, in which refextion and new ideas are born!You can definetely have a relationship with a gdp but!

You have to be willing to accept her job even though she most likely will stop working while she's with you if she's serious.

It's more a personal choice-you don't have to get married and even get into all the legalities. It is a hypocrite fighting with a moral dilemma! LOL

[Member #4732]

Is POF (Plenty of Fish) the best dating site in BR these days? I'm familiar with it, not happy with its prudish restrictions on age range.

Anybody try the paid version? Worth it?

Any other sites that you recommend instead? When I lived in BR from 2008-10 there were other sites, but perhaps they have been supplanted by POF?

Thanks in advance.

[Eric Cartman]

Is POF (Plenty of Fish) the best dating site in BR these days? I'm familiar with it, not happy with its prudish restrictions on age range.

Anybody try the paid version? Worth it?

Any other sites that you recommend instead? When I lived in BR from 2008-10 there were other sites, but perhaps they have been supplanted by POF?

Thanks in advance.Parperfeito (perfect pair) is the Match. Com type leader in Brazil, along with probably Badoo, in my understanding. That's for PC based.

Tinder is catching on for mobile, and there is a new Brazilian dating app that just launched that's (IMHO) better than tinder. It's called Eai and only available in the itunes store at present (android supposedly coming by year end). www.eaiapp.com.br

[Member #4732]

Parperfeito (perfect pair) is the Match. Com type leader in Brazil, along with probably Badoo, in my understanding. That's for PC based.

Tinder is catching on for mobile, and there is a new Brazilian dating app that just launched that's (IMHO) better than tinder. It's called Eai and only available in the itunes store at present (android supposedly coming by year end).

www.eaiapp.com.brThanks for the update.

[Member #4732]

Parperfeito (perfect pair) is the Match. Com type leader in Brazil, along with probably Badoo, in my understanding. That's for PC based.

Tinder is catching on for mobile, and there is a new Brazilian dating app that just launched that's (IMHO) better than tinder. It's called Eai and only available in the itunes store at present (android supposedly coming by year end).

www.eaiapp.com.brChecking out eai. Its proximity based "flirtation" app. I wanted to develop an app like this years ago but technology was not available then. Seems like fun. Significantly different than "soul mate" match. Com style. Opposite really.

[Member #4732]

. It's called Eai and only available in the itunes store at present (android supposedly coming by year end).

www.eaiapp.com.brWhen I read "eai" I think of this funny commercial http://youtu.be/oVyBtdcwmeA

Ipararanga commercials are always well done.

[Kcrl01]

Been going to Rio since the late 80's. Experienced the rise and fall of Helpee. I've been in a relationship with a non-GDP who was here in DC on business. Met her almost a year ago. Nothing compares to her. I don't even look at other women anymore. After her, I don't even consider American women women. They are not worth my time.

Find a nice Brasiliera and you will never regret it!

[Exec Talent]

Been going to Rio since the late 80's. Experienced the rise and fall of Helpee. I've been in a relationship with a non-GDP who was here in DC on business. Met her almost a year ago. Nothing compares to her. I don't even look at other women anymore. After her, I don't even consider American women women. They are not worth my time.

Find a nice Brasiliera and you will never regret it!Got to say that was one of the funniest posts I have seen in awhile.

Need the laugh.

Thanks!

[Kcrl01]

Got to say that was one of the funniest posts I have seen in awhile.

Need the laugh.

Thanks!Enlighten the rest of mere mortals. What did you find humorous?

[FuckAfMedDig]

Got to say that was one of the funniest posts I have seen in awhile.

Need the laugh.

Thanks!LOL yeah generalisations galore.

I do love the spirit of latina women including Brazilians. Just keep your eyes open at all times.

A dude I know just brought a retiring GDP and her daughter to a european country to live after knowing her for 3 months w / o being able to speak porto and she not able to speak his language.

Trying to get married ASAP and make another baby. Absolutely bonkers.

[Kcrl01]

LOL yeah generalisations galore.

I do love the spirit of latina women including Brazilians. Just keep your eyes open at all times.

A dude I know just brought a retiring GDP and her daughter to a european country to live after knowing her for 3 months w / o being able to speak porto and she not able to speak his language.

Trying to get married ASAP and make another baby. Absolutely bonkers.Is is a generalisation if you find it to be true?

[FuckAfMedDig]

Is is a generalisation if you find it to be true?No smoke without fire!

I do actually. Even the non-pros I have met on dating sites have in general turned out to be even more safada than some gdps!

Of course all are not same but in general I've met 200+ women in Rio, Minas Gerais etc and most were very passionate and fun.

I love Brasil and speak portuguese now as a result of the love shown to me-I felt it only right to learn so I can enjoy fully peoples personalities and avoid.

The tourist traps.

It works.

[Hobbying]

The GDP have seen or heard stories about former GDP that met clients and got married later. And most of the GDP has been relationships with clients. But because of what the girl use to do there is always a level of mistrust and a lot of jealously whenever she has any male friends. Usually they break up and go back working again. I've met a lot of GDP that they admitted to having a boyfriend from another country that helps them and think she doesn't work anymore. Also met a lot of that were married so the odds aren't good.

One way to go about it is to start seeing them as a friend outside. For example invite them to parties just not something that makes it seem like a date where she will think you want to fuck and of course she will think about how much she will charge for the date. Need to develop a friendship first so she won't think of you as a client anymore.

The problem with the dating sites is the same as the ones anywhere else. That is if they are a hot girl they will get a ton of emails. So they will see other people after you meet them.

It's all about the chase and If it is worth it or not if she is gpd or non pro. For me it is being worried that she will just use me and ditch me after I do all the things she wants because it has happened to me and many others before regardless of she is a GDP or non pro.

[Exec Talent]

Let's hope people can handle the truth.

Brazilian women including GDPs prefer gringos with light skin and blue / green eyes. Other than what they find attractive, their hope is that there will be more of a long-term relationship which will result in an offspring who will have blue / green eyes. If this describes you, you won't have to seek them out. They will find you. Go to a few popular clubs and you will have your pick.

Like women around the world, Brazilian woman like men with an easy smile, upbeat attitude who can make them laugh. If you are not witty and charming in your native language they are laughing at you, not with you. You can't be funny without speaking Portuguese. Women like men who are confident not desperate. Loser at home. Bigger loser in Brazil. Bring a bankroll because you are going to be paying for it.

There are exceptions and one of them I strongly discouraged but definitely have seen. Drugs. Not any different from many other places around the world; trading drugs for sex works.

[Sperto]

Let's hope people can handle the truth.

Brazilian women including GDPs prefer gringos with light skin and blue / green eyes. Other than what they find attractive, their hope is that there will be more of a long-term relationship which will result in an offspring who will have blue / green eyes. If this describes you, you won't have to seek them out. They will find you. Go to a few popular clubs and you will have your pick.

Like women around the world, Brazilian woman like men with an easy smile, upbeat attitude who can make them laugh. If you are not witty and charming in your native language they are laughing at you, not with you. You can't be funny without speaking Portuguese. Women like men who are confident not desperate. Loser at home. Bigger loser in Brazil. Bring a bankroll because you are going to be paying for it.

There are exceptions and one of them I strongly discouraged but definitely have seen. Drugs. Not any different from many other places around the world; trading drugs for sex works.ET is right, we shouldn't cluster the Rio thread.

Ok. ET told us. He's true. I didn't want to touch this subject. I have friends that are black, ligthly coloured or blond with dark eyes who goes to Brazil. Many of them do extremely well. They have their six-pack or they know the "game". However, the ones with easiest game are those with blond hair and blue eyes. Why? Might be because of "racism" or the influence of novelas. In the novelas the good (rich) ones are the blond / blue eyed. Where I come from the majority are blond / blue eyed. I never compained about this, being blond and blue eyed. Not to forget that back home (where the majotiry are blonds) the coloured guys are high targets (with some religous restictions).

Finally, I have a blond steady GF in Rio. I've met dozens of her GFs. They all ask; present me to a blue-eyed friend of yours. BUT when you speak between four eyes, it's really the morenos that turns them on.

IMO, f*ck your colour. What matters is that you can smile, make the girls laugh, relax and make them interested.
Amen!

P.S ET I do disagree about guys not speaking Portuguese. I have a couple of friends which have been to Brazil several times without learning any Portuguese at all. They are firefighthers, construction workers etc. They speak just a few words of Portuguese, but when they hit the beach with extremely fit bodies their lack of Portuguese doesn't matter. Amen!

[Exec Talent]

P.S ET I do disagree about guys not speaking Portuguese. I have a couple of friends which have been to Brazil several times without learning any Portuguese at all. They are firefighthers, construction workers etc. They speak just a few words of Portuguese, but when they hit the beach with extremely fit bodies their lack of Portuguese doesn't matter. Amen!Yeah, should really have broken it down. Fit guys of any color who don't know a lick of Portuguese will do well, especially in Ipanema. Just be prepared to say "Eu gosto de mulheres. Só as mulheres. " I like women. Only women.

Many of the guys with awesome bodies you see on the beaches are gay. In fact, my female Brazilian friends are seriously concerned about where they will meet a straight guy to marry. So if you are built and showing off at the beach be prepared to be approached. Remember -- "Eu gosto de mulheres. Só as mulheres.

[FuckAfMedDig]

ET is right, we shouldn't cluster the Rio thread.

Ok. ET told us. He's true. I didn't want to touch this subject. I have friends that are black, ligthly coloured or blond with dark eyes who goes to Brazil. Many of them do extremely well. They have their six-pack or they know the "game". However, the ones with easiest game are those with blond hair and blue eyes. Why? Might be because of "racism" or the influence of novelas. In the novelas the good (rich) ones are the blond / blue eyed. Where I come from the majority are blond / blue eyed. I never compained about this, being blond and blue eyed. Not to forget that back home (where the majotiry are blonds) the coloured guys are high targets (with some religous restictions).

Finally, I have a blond steady GF in Rio. I've met dozens of her GFs. They all ask; present me to a blue-eyed friend of yours. BUT when you speak between four eyes, it's really the morenos that turns them on.

IMO, f*ck your colour. What matters is that you can smile, make the girls laugh, relax and make them interested.
Amen!

P.S ET I do disagree about guys not speaking Portuguese. I have a couple of friends which have been to Brazil several times without learning any Portuguese at all. They are firefighthers, construction workers etc. They speak just a few words of Portuguese, but when they hit the beach with extremely fit bodies their lack of Portuguese doesn't matter. Amen!It is absolutely a result of institutional racism and slavery that the Western beauty ideals of blonde / blue eyes get hammered home again and again in Brazil.

Hence why black girls (and guys) straighten hair to look like white girls etc etc.

I also agree that many deep down are turned on by what they know (morenos) - it is also a case of grass is greener and fascination.

I have brown eyes and olive skin and have not had any problems with women in Brazil-your personality and vibe is everything-granted if you are attractive of course it helps-they are obsessed by looks in Rio.

With that outdoor culture, confidence in sexuality and minimal clothes its to be expected!

[FuckAfMedDig]

The GDP have seen or heard stories about former GDP that met clients and got married later. And most of the GDP has been relationships with clients. But because of what the girl use to do there is always a level of mistrust and a lot of jealously whenever she has any male friends. Usually they break up and go back working again. I've met a lot of GDP that they admitted to having a boyfriend from another country that helps them and think she doesn't work anymore. Also met a lot of that were married so the odds aren't good.

One way to go about it is to start seeing them as a friend outside. For example invite them to parties just not something that makes it seem like a date where she will think you want to fuck and of course she will think about how much she will charge for the date. Need to develop a friendship first so she won't think of you as a client anymore.

The problem with the dating sites is the same as the ones anywhere else. That is if they are a hot girl they will get a ton of emails. So they will see other people after you meet them.

It's all about the chase and If it is worth it or not if she is gpd or non pro. For me it is being worried that she will just use me and ditch me after I do all the things she wants because it has happened to me and many others before regardless of she is a GDP or non pro.Most popular GDPs in Zona SUl termas get marriage proposals / invitations to live la fora (abroad) monthly from rich gringoes-you will be one of many.

The problem is if you don't speak porto, you will go where they now gringos come who are not culturally informed and therefore easy prey.

A GDP who works in zona Sul etc are more likely to go back to it than someone poor working in VM or in zona norte. Those are unlikely to get invited abroad and are desperate.

The Tier 1 hoes get paid.

One gringo I know flew one and her daughter to europe to be one big happy family untill she saw how he lived-she prob had a better life in RIo! LOL.

Fuckin politicians, lawyers and other connected folks as private clients.

She returned to RIo and faked a pregnancy and never spoke to him again. Cold.

She now is with a girl!

Unless you speak portuguese and really understand the psyche of Brazilian girls and their culture I would not even attempt any relationship-pro-non-pro or semi.

Date, be amigos colouridos (friends w benefits) and get to know. The bad ones weed themselves out.

[LuckyuJack]

Yeah, should really have broken it down. Fit guys of any color who don't know a lick of Portuguese will do well, especially in Ipanema. Just be prepared to say "Eu gosto de mulheres. S as mulheres. " I like women. Only women.

Many of the guys with awesome bodies you see on the beaches are gay. In fact, my female Brazilian friends are seriously concerned about where they will meet a straight guy to marry. So if you are built and showing off at the beach be prepared to be approached. Remember -- "Eu gosto de mulheres. S as mulheres.I work for an international company we develop hardware and software. I'm in Brazil and Panama often. The Brazilian non-GDP I see when I'm in BH, MG has a rack of gay friends. Should I be worried?

[Poucolouco]

I work for an international company we develop hardware and software. I'm in Brazil and Panama often. The Brazilian non-GDP I see when I'm in BH, MG has a rack of gay friends. Should I be worried?Don't worry about it. Homosexuality isn't contageous. Gays have preferences for like kind and are not going to bother you. Unless you display open homophobic tendencies your girlfriend will still like you as well for accepting her friends.

[Exec Talent]

I work for an international company we develop hardware and software. I'm in Brazil and Panama often. The Brazilian non-GDP I see when I'm in BH, MG has a rack of gay friends. Should I be worried?Brazilians seem to be much more concerned about corrupt anally retentive bureaucrats these days.

[Hobbying]

Let's hope people can handle the truth.

Brazilian women including GDPs prefer gringos with light skin and blue / green eyes. Other than what they find attractive, their hope is that there will be more of a long-term relationship which will result in an offspring who will have blue / green eyes. If this describes you, you won't have to seek them out. They will find you. Go to a few popular clubs and you will have your pick.I think it depends where in Brazil. They are so mixed themselves that they don't care as much what the guy is. It especially true in SP where you see tons of girls with Brazilian Japaneses for example. Mostly because they have money.

In contrast, if you go to the south of Brazil like states of SC or RS you see most white Euro looking people and that's the kind of people they're use to. But I'm not white with blue eyes and yet I have the most luck with girls from the south.

Rio and Cariocas are the most difficult IMO, they have preconceptions of all gringos so you start in a negative position regardless what you look like.

[FuckAfMedDig]

I don't have blue eyes or blond hair but I have had alot of success on Cupid in Brazil.

I have fucked a good 6/7 girls aged 19-24 off there who all wanted GF status.

One is now my GF-25 years younger than me and madly in love with me- a student. I'm very young looking (heir words-maybe 30. I'm actually 44. Lied on Cupid always and by the time.

Girls are into you-tell them truth-none of them have minded! I Love Brazil!

Nothing to do with being a gringo-I speak portuguese and blend in but I guess its just an added bonus being able to intro her to another culture.

ID say find girls there who have a healthy curiosity about other culture but who date brazilians and have had brazilian boyfriends and who won't be with you for your passport.

I have this now and had 5 opportunities like these.

This is after many GDP exepriences and mini-relationships with them-many times for just expenses-like a normal GF.

It does happen-they forget their jobs and just want to namorar and see their job as that-a job.

I don't forget it though so it was a natural progression onto non-pros.

I will still hit up a terma or 2 or VM occasionally but with so much local pussy in Brazil-especially out of Rio / SP-you can win.

[Mr Enternational]

Nothing to do with being a gringo-I speak portuguese and blend in but I guess its just an added bonus being able to intro her to another culture.

ID say find girls there who have a healthy curiosity about other culture but who date brazilians and have had brazilian boyfriends and who won't be with you for your passport.

I have this now and had 5 opportunities like these.Bro, they are women, not aliens. Women like men. There is no mystery to it and they could care less about culture. Just meet them the same way you do any other normal woman on the planet. And why play games like lying about your age?

[Vagabundo1]

Fuckafmedig,

Did you upgrade your brazilcupid membership so you could chat with the girls more easily? Seems worth it.


I don't have blue eyes or blond hair but I have had alot of success on Cupid in Brazil.

I have fucked a good 6/7 girls aged 19-24 off there who all wanted GF status.

One is now my GF-25 years younger than me and madly in love with me- a student. I'm very young looking (heir words-maybe 30. I'm actually 44. Lied on Cupid always and by the time.

Girls are into you-tell them truth-none of them have minded! I Love Brazil!

Nothing to do with being a gringo-I speak portuguese and blend in but I guess its just an added bonus being able to intro her to another culture.

ID say find girls there who have a healthy curiosity about other culture but who date brazilians and have had brazilian boyfriends and who won't be with you for your passport.

I have this now and had 5 opportunities like these.

This is after many GDP exepriences and mini-relationships with them-many times for just expenses-like a normal GF.

It does happen-they forget their jobs and just want to namorar and see their job as that-a job.

I don't forget it though so it was a natural progression onto non-pros.

I will still hit up a terma or 2 or VM occasionally but with so much local pussy in Brazil-especially out of Rio / SP-you can win.

[FuckAfMedDig]

Bro, they are women, not aliens. Women like men. There is no mystery to it and they could care less about culture. Just meet them the same way you do any other normal woman on the planet. And why play games like lying about your age?Most of them do it on there anyway. I look alot younger than I am and when they find out the truth, they don't care which is synonymous with Brazil but if they are looking for 19-34 and I'm 44 then why say it'/ those brackets are based on their past experiences not me.

[FuckAfMedDig]

Fuckafmedig,

Did you upgrade your brazilcupid membership so you could chat with the girls more easily? Seems worth it.Hey vagabundo1-I upgraded from the start! Only way.

[FuckAfMedDig]

Bro, they are women, not aliens. Women like men. There is no mystery to it and they could care less about culture. Just meet them the same way you do any other normal woman on the planet. And why play games like lying about your age?You are missing the point. Many brazilian girls want that launch pad to Europe, US or whatever. I don't want to be that so I want someone who aint just lookin for a gringo.

Who date and have dated their own with success as well. Get the balance right. I fucked many and had many ficantes but at the end of the day 'I now got someone good even though I'm only a year younger than her dad and 5 years older than her mum!

Braziiiiiil! Kkkk.

[FuckAfMedDig]

Hey vagabundo1-I upgraded from the start! Only way.I always wanted to get messages from them straight on my cell and then go right in and communicate and get their zap zap watsapp and get into it properly.

As soon as we get that zapzap its on.

Brazilcupid to me is the best one-the girls seem pretty cool and normal, students, working or both.

Haven't met gdps there at all but maybe others have.

Good level of girls hittin me and vice versa. Sometimes takes a minute before they come back as some don't have gold / plat membership so can't see if theyve been hit w / o entering site but.

Its been a resounding success for me.

Met educated nymphos aged 22,24,19 etc.

[FuckAfMedDig]

oh well, i've been flamed many times for stating that, but let's reiterate: brasil is a rather bad hunting ground for a non-pro player, whatever his skills and his cultural knowledge. brasileiras have very little esteem and very little interest for sex-hungry tourists. to a greater extent, there is an underlying distrust of gringos among them and in many cases it's dislike, and even hate. for a carioca chick a sex-hungry tourist is more or less at the same level than a cockroach. on the other hand they have a very high opinion of their fellow countrymen. they are suckers about their own culture. practically fanatical. and they date boys their own age. their peer group, sharing their common interests, ect. gringos are completely out of this loop. in big cities cosmopolitan bowels, any decent-looking girl has dozens of horny, athletic, attractive, confident, fun, charming and sometimes outrageously rich local guys at her feet begging to please her. a "never to be seen again after his two weeks vacations are over" foreigner is nothing of value for those girls. btw most mid-to upper class girls may not want to be seen making out or holding hands with a gringo. they may see this as a loss of status if the local guys start considering her a piranha who fucks foreigners.

that said, some faveladas or lower-class chicks might see some benefit to fuck foreigners, so don't be desesperate, guys.

there's parts of the world where with some game and cultural awareness, scoring freebies is 1000 easier than in brasil, but it's not the place to talk about it (smilie).I disagree wholeheartedly.

Many gdps will tell you that many of their girlfriends who don't work in the biz would prefer a gringo as many local guys are too primitive, abusive, promiscuous etc.

This is their view not mine.

Many girls outside of rio like in natal, Fortaleza, bahia, belem would love to meet a nice gringo.

Age difference is also not an issu in Brazil. Many times you see an older woman with a younger guy or vice versa.

Not frowned upon. You might get the odd grandpa remark but that's it.

It depends on you, your personality, your vibe.

The world of gdps is limited. I have had many mini-relationships with gdps that started in termas and then they just wanted to date. No money.

Then when some quit they wanted to be just BF / GF.

I would never want that.

Places like Brazilcupid and parferfeito are good for meeting normal chicks who are open to gringos.

Thats my experience.

I have visited 13 times in 3 years and now have a GF -a student 25 years younger than me that her parents accept and support. She is not poor or rich-just a bombshell from nordeste.

Boa sorte.

[Sperto]

... Thats my experience... FuckAfMedDig, don't expect any answer. Dear Prosal hasn't written any reports in the Brazil thread for about 4 years. He's probably somewhere in Ukraine.

[FuckAfMedDig]

FuckAfMedDig, don't expect any answer. Dear Prosal hasn't written any reports in the Brazil thread for about 4 years. He's propably somewhere in Ukraine.LOL! He can keep Ukraine all to himself.

[Exec Talent]

Why would the Brazilian girl next door have sex with a gringo?

Money. Even non-pros need new shoes. They hear about how GDPs are making money and are tempted.

They enjoy sex. Brazilian women grow up talking about sex and their orgasm. She wants one. Be a nice guy and try your best to give it to her.

If they have sex with you, it is not going to get back to their circle of friends like it would if you were Brazilian.

You are her way out.

She wants to have your baby.

Many times (yes, many) I have been approached by Brazilian girls on the streets, in a bar or club, on the beach, or at the mall. Not being from their country they have no worries about appearing too forward or aggressive. After meeting, WhatsApp is a great way to keep in touch.

One time a Brazilian who used to frequent this forum accused me of lying when I said a postal clerk had slipped me her number on my receipt when I had mailed a package. Then I showed him the actual receipt and suggested he call it. Remember a lot of these girls are looking for a way out and think you could be it.

[Sperto]

One time a Brazilian who used to frequent this forum accused me of lying when I said a postal clerk had slipped me her number on my receipt when I had mailed a package. Then I showed him the actual receipt and suggested he call it. Remember a lot of these girls are looking for a way out and think you could be it.
Your whole post i very true.
Regarding postal clerks. They are kinky. I also sent a parcel, in Salvador. The postal clerk was very cute. I told her I stayed in a hotel across the street. A beer after she finished work and then some kinky sex.
Even kinkier are the female police women in Brazil, they like anal and bondage. One of them was a virgin. I got her PM T-shirt as nice memory. :)

[Mr Enternational]

I will never understand why guys on ISG think people are lying about nonpros. They are women, not some unicorn or bigfoot. Women like men just as much as men like women.

[Larry David]

She wants to have your baby.I might be okay with that. Not looking to take her north, at least not very far. I understand child support in Brasil is 💰128184;. What I haven't been able to determine is the rights of the father. Can anyone give me a basic rundown? Am I better off with a paisa baby mamma and rely her to Brasil for the birth?

[Rodeo9112]

Your whole post i very true.
Regarding postal clerks. They are kinky. I also sent a parcel, in Salvador. The postal clerk was very cute. I told her I stayed in a hotel across the street. A beer after she finished work and then some kinky sex.
Even kinkier are the female police women in Brazil, they like anal and bondage. One of them was a virgin. I got her PM T-shirt as nice memory. :)I'd love to get ahold of one (or two or three) police women; any advice on bagging one? Just being myself generally works well, but I was wondering whether they are P4P or tend to just be regular non-pros.

[Sperto]

I'd love to get ahold of one (or two or three) police women; any advice on bagging one? Just being myself generally works well, but I was wondering whether they are P4P or tend to just be regular non-pros.
Maybe if you do a crime you might arrested by a lovely female PM? No advice, it just happened. Regular girls. Both PMs were in Bahia. Bahia has many sexy PMs.
The one who was a virgin was hard to loose after our night together. She turned up on the streets when I was flirting with other girls. Dressed in uniform, helmet and a one-meter wooden baton she scared away other girls I was going for.

[Exec Talent]

Sperto in his most recent post alluded to one important issue with bagging that elusive non-pro but let me be very clear when I say you may be better off paying.

With a pro you can take her to a short-term love motel and all is well. She never needs to know where you are staying. Not so easily done with a non-pro. She is not a prostitute after all. I have been stalked on more than one occasion. Not Basic Instinct bunny in the pot stalked, but showing up out of nowhere when you are trying to close the deal stalked. Expecting that you are exclusive stalked. You are the love of my life, we are soul mates stalked. This has happened in the US as well, but it can be very disconcerting when you are not on your home turf.

The old saying about paying them to leave, is not too far from the mark. Sometimes even when you pay them they won't leave, so imagine when she has told all her friends that you rocked her world and she thinks you are the one and her friends see you out with someone else.

You have been warned.

[Rodeo9112]

Maybe if you do a crime you might arrested by a lovely female PM? No advice, it just happened. Regular girls. Both PMs were in Bahia. Bahia has many sexy PMs.
The one who was a virgin was hard to loose after our night together. She turned up on the streets when I was flirting with other girls. Dressed in uniform, helmet and a one-meter wooden baton she scared away other girls I was going for.Ha! I guess you got to expect that when you go popping cherries and breaking hearts! At least she didn't arrest you on a trumped up charge.

[Koolkid]

Sperto in his most recent post alluded to one important issue with bagging that elusive non-pro but let me be very clear when I say you may be better off paying.

With a pro you can take her to a short-term love motel and all is well. She never needs to know where you are staying. Not so easily done with a non-pro. She is not a prostitute after all. I have been stalked on more than one occasion. Not Basic Instinct bunny in the pot stalked, but showing up out of nowhere when you are trying to close the deal stalked. Expecting that you are exclusive stalked. You are the love of my life, we are soul mates stalked. This has happened in the US as well, but it can be very disconcerting when you are not on your home turf.

The old saying about paying them to leave, is not too far from the mark. Sometimes even when you pay them they won't leave, so imagine when she has told all her friends that you rocked her world and she thinks you are the one and her friends see you out with someone else.

You have been warned.Very wise words!!

[FuckAfMedDig]

I might be okay with that. Not looking to take her north, at least not very far. I understand child support in Brasil is 💰128184;. What I haven't been able to determine is the rights of the father. Can anyone give me a basic rundown? Am I better off with a paisa baby mamma and rely her to Brasil for the birth?You have the right to a permanent residence in Brazil immediately as the baby's father-they want you around so they can collect child support. You also have the rights to get shitted on by the legal system in case it doesn't work out between you. You have the right to get the runaround by her and her family if it doesn't work out-boa sorte. Remember many younger chicks have kids-its not a big deal in Brazil.

[FuckAfMedDig]

I love Brazil Cupid.

It actually works so well. Most girls on there bar a few gold diggers, are just there to meet a dude for real or have some fun.

A 34 Year old from Duque de Caxias came through-mind you I had never spoken to her on skype-only watssapp and never audio. Just txt. She comes in 2 weeks after we start speaking and is v happy I look like the photos.

I can't say the same for her! LOL.

But needs must. She tongues me down on the way up in the elevator and within an hour we have sex and she's good.

Cupid is a mad place.

Other times I have to work a month for it-skype calls galore blabla but I think its a great site. You can build up a vibe and get to know very quickly.

Meeting them in person is never akward for them as they already feel they know alot about you.

Of course this can't substitute meeting girls out and about but is a viable alternative from abroad pre-arrival. Especially if you don't have lots of time to explore and hit on chicks on the ground.

[FuckAfMedDig]

You got some specific types I can conclude now after 3 years of diving in.

The Carioca girl-quick, loud and don't say thanks-used to fast pace.

The girl from outside-interior-or zona norte from evangelical background- religious background-no sex till marriage ideally but never works. Good people, salt of the earth type. Inoccent. Can't stay over at night.

Patricinhas-middle class girls born w silver spoons- mostly always looking down on the poor. Don't mind a gringo but has to be better than what they have a pick of here.

The opportunist who has visited europe / US and who wants more. Dated tons of gringos and don't really look at Brazilians anymore. She lives abroad mentally.

The favela girl who hustles, conditioned to hard life but with good heart.

Then the ones who have had 1/2 gringos and want more now but still dates Brazilians. More balanced.

Feel free to add on.

[Mr Enternational]

I'd love to get ahold of one (or two or three) police women; any advice on bagging one? Just being myself generally works well, but I was wondering whether they are P4P or tend to just be regular non-pros.What's up with wanting to fuck someone because of their job (unless their job is hooker)?

What if they lied and said they were a policewoman then you fucked her and were completely satisfied but later on found out that was not her job? Would you then have to search out someone else whose job it actually was? Just not seeing what difference someone's job makes in wanting to fuck them.

Years ago I used to see a woman in Rio who was a police officer. She had to change into her uniform when she got to work and change back before she went home.

Another Brazilian police chick in Sao Paulo I have known for 9 years. She is in love/obsessed with me. She came to visit me in the States last year. I recently blocked her for the umpteenth time because she is crazy. She has her sister and daughter sending me messages since I blocked her. She said there were ghosts in my house telling her things. We went to the club and she started crying "pimenta" because she thought pepper was in the Blue Motherfucker that she was drinking. I was gone and my brother had to go to my house to get her to take her to the airport. She tried to sneak off with my motorcycle jacket.

[BHawk]

Rented with a Braz family years ago. One of the sisters was married. Her husband was quite boring and always away for work. She started to give me looks. And God she was pretty. She started to move on me. I moved on her. I had to go jerk off several times a day as I could not walk around in the house with a hard-on. She came to my room to talk at one time. She felt it. I felt it. As she could not risk anything she sat down a couple of meters away from me on the floor. Suddenly her husband ran into the room having some (decent) excuse as to why. He did not discover anything. I think he knew. I just had to have her. Made a plot. At a point when the house was nearly empty I said I wanted to find a place to run along the beach, but needed help to get there. She was the only one able to communicate reasonably with me, so it was natural that she came along as a guide.

Once there I said I wanted to change to my running shoes and not leave stuff in the car. So I asked if she would mind to help me rent a room. She smiled and said OK. Next I asked if she'd follow me up while I changed to running gear. She became red on her neck but said OK.

Up we went. I said I'd take a short break from the hot car and jumped on the bed. She sat down and then lay down. I took of my shirt. She said she'd take of her shorts as they'd get wrinkled. I pulled out a condom and showed this to her. - Look what I found in my pocket! From that point I do not remember anything until my face was buried in her crotch. I sucked her pussy for a good time while admiring that beautiful body and squeezing her nipples. Next I moved up, got the condom mounted and eased my cock into that pussy that I had been dreaming of for many hot days. It was mine. Drilled her for a good while until I could not hold back. Pulled out, pulled off the condom and sprayed my semen all over her fantastic body. I have never before or after had such a huge ejaculation with any girl. She was completely glazed from belly to face, over shoulders and over breasts.

Took a shower, the (shortened) run and went back home.

Never got the opportunity to do her again, but it was one of my best non-pro sessions ever.

Brazilian girls are fantastic. I've had a few non-pros and all great.

[Exec Talent]

If you are looking for a fun day trip with your favorite GDP or non-pro, Paqueta is worth a visit.

http://www.ilhadepaqueta.com.br/paqueta.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paquet%C3%A1_Island

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g303506-d2407485-Reviews-Paqueta_Island_Beach-Rio_de_Janeiro_State_of_Rio_de_Janeiro.html

Rent a bike. Take a walk. Have a meal and if you go in the park, you will even find some little monkeys.

About an hour ferry ride from downtown Rio.

Little advice. The less you treat a GDP like a GDP the more she behaves like a GFE.

[Balboa]

If you are looking for a fun day trip with your favorite GDP or non-pro, Paqueta is worth a visit.

http://www.ilhadepaqueta.com.br/paqueta.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paquet%C3%A1_Island

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g303506-d2407485-Reviews-Paqueta_Island_Beach-Rio_de_Janeiro_State_of_Rio_de_Janeiro.html

Rent a bike. Take a walk. Have a meal and if you go in the park, you will even find some little monkeys.

About an hour ferry ride from downtown Rio.

Little advice. The less you treat a GDP like a GDP the more she behaves like a GFE.Great idea!

Thanks Exec!

[FuckAfMedDig]

If you are looking for a fun day trip with your favorite GDP or non-pro, Paqueta is worth a visit.

http://www.ilhadepaqueta.com.br/paqueta.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paquet%C3%A1_Island

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g303506-d2407485-Reviews-Paqueta_Island_Beach-Rio_de_Janeiro_State_of_Rio_de_Janeiro.html

Rent a bike. Take a walk. Have a meal and if you go in the park, you will even find some little monkeys.

About an hour ferry ride from downtown Rio.




Little advice. The less you treat a GDP like a GDP the more she behaves like a GFE.Good idea.

Also take a GDP to Rio Water Planet-like an aqua park. Good fun.

Treat her like a nice girlfriend / cool date and shell behave like one after a little while.

Always been my experiences.

I took one from Macapa to Flamengo-Botafogo at Maracana the 2nd time I was in Brazil with limited portugues.

I can recommend.

Many don't have the means to go or live too far but are Flamenguistas.

She thanked me for treating her like a normal girl and for making her forget her job for a weekend.

There was no money involved on that trip-3 gdps came in turn to hotel.

It was an interesting time in that grey zone between GDP / normal girl and both of us trying to forget for a minute what she does! LOL.

Sweet illusion.

You do tend to come back to earth hard like when she discovers lube in the drawer etc LOL like who you been with when I wasnt here!

Life of a mongerer eh?

[Exec Talent]

Although most guys here have not had the non-pro experience, I think that is what determines how you compare women from different countries.

I have been with nymphomaniacs in the US, the never leave the bedroom experience, but that is not the norm.

What sets Brazilians apart is not so much the intensity as the interest. This has been pretty much across the board.

They want to have sex; they want to show you they know how to please you but also want to be pleased. I have found that in other parts of the world, but not as a cultural norm.

A little warning if you should venture down the non-pro path- if you are not into slapping, not talking about spanking, slapping, then let it be known.

For some reason, that also is a cultural norm.

I often get asked about non-pros and with what I stated above in mind, if you have not been told by the women you have not paid that you are good in bed, don't bother.

Non-pros will kick your sorry butt to the curb. And, forget about Viagra too. The way she looks at it is if she can't get you up, something is wrong with her and not you. That does not make her happy.

There also is the flip side. If you make her too happy, she will never want to leave!

[Paulisto]

What's up with wanting to fuck someone because of their job (unless their job is hooker)?

What if they lied and said they were a policewoman then you fucked her and were completely satisfied but later on found out that was not her job? Would you then have to search out someone else whose job it actually was? Just not seeing what difference someone's job makes in wanting to fuck them.

Years ago I used to see a woman in Rio who was a police officer. She had to change into her uniform when she got to work and change back before she went home.

Another Brazilian police chick in Sao Paulo I have known for 9 years. She is in love/obsessed with me. She came to visit me in the States last year. I recently blocked her for the umpteenth time because she is crazy. She has her sister and daughter sending me messages since I blocked her. She said there were ghosts in my house telling her things. We went to the club and she started crying "pimenta" because she thought pepper was in the Blue Motherfucker that she was drinking. I was gone and my brother had to go to my house to get her to take her to the airport. She tried to sneak off with my motorcycle jacket.Jesus, this is the reason to me pay for sex and no be worry about crazy girls.

[FuckAfMedDig]

Sperto in his most recent post alluded to one important issue with bagging that elusive non-pro but let me be very clear when I say you may be better off paying.

With a pro you can take her to a short-term love motel and all is well. She never needs to know where you are staying. Not so easily done with a non-pro. She is not a prostitute after all. I have been stalked on more than one occasion. Not Basic Instinct bunny in the pot stalked, but showing up out of nowhere when you are trying to close the deal stalked. Expecting that you are exclusive stalked. You are the love of my life, we are soul mates stalked. This has happened in the US as well, but it can be very disconcerting when you are not on your home turf.

The old saying about paying them to leave, is not too far from the mark. Sometimes even when you pay them they won't leave, so imagine when she has told all her friends that you rocked her world and she thinks you are the one and her friends see you out with someone else.

You have been warned.I have to disagree here. I have had many gfs in Brazil-and when I said it was over, they took it-no problems. No one has displayed psychotic behavior. Very normal girls. No one has ever stalked me. Matter fact only a mad GDP from Minas stalked me and sent me photos every half hour from outside my building! LOL all night. Luckily I was sleeping elsewhere.

[Exec Talent]

I have to disagree here. I have had many gfs in Brazil-and when I said it was over, they took it-no problems. No one has displayed psychotic behavior. Very normal girls. No one has ever stalked me. Matter fact only a mad GDP from Minas stalked me and sent me photos every half hour from outside my building! LOL all night. Luckily I was sleeping elsewhere.Yeah, Brazilian women will kick a poor lover to the curb and move on without a second thought. I think you missed the rocked her world part.

[Balboa]

Yeah, Brazilian women will kick a poor lover to the curb and move on without a second thought. I think you missed the rocked her world part.I have to admit, this post had me laughing. 😂

[FuckAfMedDig]

Yeah, Brazilian women will kick a poor lover to the curb and move on without a second thought. I think you missed the rocked her world part.Correct! I did work her really well when I met her in VM. So much so that she came back home with me after session! LOL.

She then took bus down from Minas to see me without us having made plans.

Called me when I returned to Europe! Kkk.

Did I mention she killed a girl in Minas and had a little scar on her neck as a reminder but very very good pussy and BBBJCIM.

[Exec Talent]

Correct! I did work her really well when I met her in VM. So much so that she came back home with me after session! LOL.

She then took bus down from Minas to see me without us having made plans.

Called me when I returned to Europe! Kkk.

Did I mention she killed a girl in Minas and had a little scar on her neck as a reminder but very very good pussy and BBBJCIM.That is a fascinating and very illuminating story. Reminds me of the time my dog almost caught the rabbit.

[Exec Talent]

Since there seems to be an exceptional amount of Misinformation in this area; as someone who has had great success, I thought I would share the facts, not fiction.

Basically, there are 7 ways (and usually combinations thereof) that you are going to get that hot looking non-pro in your bed:

1) You are a genuinely nice guy.

2) You speak Portuguese.

3) You are attractive.

4) You are charming, funny and upbeat with a ready smile.

5) You have a lot of money.

6) You have position.

7) You exude confidence.

For some reason guys who have had zero luck with women all their lives think they are going to go to another country and suddenly women will be falling all over them. Most women have jerk meters. A member of this forum wanted a female Brazilian friend of mine to introduce him to some of her friends. Within a few seconds she gave me the look – no way, the guy is a jerk. Women love to talk and one of things they love to talk about (no different than men) is about guys. The ones with good radar will tell the ones without such good radar and you get a reputation. This is why jerks do better just paying for it in large cities. Some of them even have problems when they pay for it, which is why we see Your Mileage May Vary reports.

I was in Centaurus with a young very attractive European guy. The non-lesbians were all asking me about him. He couldn't speak Portuguese and didn't have much money or position but he had everything else. I doubt he ever paid for a girl his entire Rio visit. But, he was smart enough to know if you are looking for candy, you go to the candy store. He would just go into the termas and girls would give him their number. Now days it is even easier with WhatsApp and texting.

Also, there is lot of talk about Brazilian dating sites. Out of curiosity, I spent some time on them and found most of the women obviously were pros, not that attractive or had other manufacturer defects. Many were looking for husbands, not hookups. Again, I have had success in other countries on these kinds of sites but in Brazil face to face seems to be a better use of time. Instead of sitting behind a computer then meeting only to be disappointed, get out and walk around. However, if you are a jerk and have no game, maybe the computer route is your only shot. But, what happens when she actually meets you?

One group of non-pros who are rarely talked about is tourists. Great opportunities there especially if you speak Portuguese. What happens in Rio, stays in Rio. Near hotels, hostels, main tourist areas all are great places to meet them. I have connected with a few over breakfast at the hotel. They see the hotel staff paying particular attention to you. You are joking with them in Portuguese. Suddenly, you are the guy to know even before you just happened to be right behind her in the buffet line. And, wouldn't you know, your table is right next to hers. Don't think it is important to know the staff? Guess who put you at that table and who went out of their way to mention to her that you are a nice guy.

Oh, and about the money. Non-pros are not looking for transactional cash. They are looking long-term. We are not talking about gold diggers. We are talking about security and even independent, seemingly self-sufficient women want it. Trust me, it is always in the back of their minds.

Good luck in your pursuits, but as you should have gathered by now, luck has little to do with it.

[FuckAfMedDig]

Since there seems to be an exceptional amount of Misinformation in this area; as someone who has had great success, I thought I would share the facts, not fiction.

Basically, there are 7 ways (and usually combinations thereof) that you are going to get that hot looking non-pro in your bed:

1) You are a genuinely nice guy.

2) You speak Portuguese.

3) You are attractive.

4) You are charming, funny and upbeat with a ready smile.

5) You have a lot of money.

6) You have position.

7) You exude confidence.

For some reason guys who have had zero luck with women all their lives think they are going to go to another country and suddenly women will be falling all over them. Most women have jerk meters. A member of this forum wanted a female Brazilian friend of mine to introduce him to some of her friends. Within a few seconds she gave me the look no way, the guy is a jerk. Women love to talk and one of things they love to talk about (no different than men) is about guys. The ones with good radar will tell the ones without such good radar and you get a reputation. This is why jerks do better just paying for it in large cities. Some of them even have problems when they pay for it, which is why we see Your Mileage May Vary reports.

I was in Centaurus with a young very attractive European guy. The non-lesbians were all asking me about him. He couldn't speak Portuguese and didn't have much money or position but he had everything else. I doubt he ever paid for a girl his entire Rio visit. But, he was smart enough to know if you are looking for candy, you go to the candy store. He would just go into the termas and girls would give him their number. Now days it is even easier with WhatsApp and texting.

Also, there is lot of talk about Brazilian dating sites. Out of curiosity, I spent some time on them and found most of the women obviously were pros, not that attractive or had other manufacturer defects. Many were looking for husbands, not hookups. Again, I have had success in other countries on these kinds of sites but in Brazil face to face seems to be a better use of time. Instead of sitting behind a computer then meeting only to be disappointed, get out and walk around. However, if you are a jerk and have no game, maybe the computer route is your only shot. But, what happens when she actually meets you?

One group of non-pros who are rarely talked about is tourists. Great opportunities there especially if you speak Portuguese. What happens in Rio, stays in Rio. Near hotels, hostels, main tourist areas all are great places to meet them. I have connected with a few over breakfast at the hotel. They see the hotel staff paying particular attention to you. You are joking with them in Portuguese. Suddenly, you are the guy to know even before you just happened to be right behind her in the buffet line. And, wouldn't you know, your table is right next to hers. Don't think it is important to know the staff? Guess who put you at that table and who went out of their way to mention to her that you are a nice guy.

Oh, and about the money. Non-pros are not looking for transactional cash. They are looking long-term. We are not talking about gold diggers. We are talking about security and even independent, seemingly self-sufficient women want it. Trust me, it is always in the back of their minds.

Good luck in your pursuits, but as you should have gathered by now, luck has little to do with it.Agree with all of the above except re sites.

Cupid sites are one of the easiest places I have ever met women and best money I have ever paid out.

Brazil-Latin.

I have spoken to tons of girls on there and in Brazil only 2 or 3 were asking for money / acting like pros.

Out of hundreds.

Great place and highly recommended especially if you speak portuguese.

But even if you don't it doesn't mean it can't work.

All over Brazil it works.

If anything its even easier outside of Rio and SP but just as doable in those cities.

Rio it will be mainly zona norte or suburb girls I've found.

[Aligeeli06]

Agree with all of the above except re sites.

Cupid sites are one of the easiest places I have ever met women and best money I have ever paid out.

Brazil-Latin.

I have spoken to tons of girls on there and in Brazil only 2 or 3 were asking for money / acting like pros.

Out of hundreds.

Great place and highly recommended especially if you speak portuguese.

But even if you don't it doesn't mean it can't work.

All over Brazil it works.

If anything its even easier outside of Rio and SP but just as doable in those cities.

Rio it will be mainly zona norte or suburb girls I've found.Thanks for sharing that Information. With "cupid sites" you mean what exactly? Happn, Tinder etc?

[Exec Talent]

Agree with all of the above except re sites.

Cupid sites are one of the easiest places I have ever met women and best money I have ever paid out.

Brazil-Latin.

I have spoken to tons of girls on there and in Brazil only 2 or 3 were asking for money / acting like pros.

Out of hundreds.

Great place and highly recommended especially if you speak portuguese.

But even if you don't it doesn't mean it can't work.

All over Brazil it works.

If anything its even easier outside of Rio and SP but just as doable in those cities.

Rio it will be mainly zona norte or suburb girls I've found.Again, about the Brazilian "dating" sites, I think you missed the operative words -- not that attractive.

When I am walking around, it is easy not only to see what a woman looks like but also get a sense of her personality. On dating sites, who knows who you are actually communicating with. To play with internet marketers, sometimes I have emails that link to a plus-sized, middle-aged woman with 4 kids who works at McDonalds and drives a Mercedes and has a thing for leather. You should see some of the banner ads I get.

So, if you want to waste time on dating sites, have at it. Doesn't make much sense to me. If you have game, then use it in real time by getting out and about. If you don't have game, pay for it. However, if you don't have game and a woman agrees to meet with you, she is going to reject you and you have wasted your time.

A common misconception is that women the world over love a gringo. Wrong. They love your money or they love the same things that a woman in your home country loves.

Let me just talk about Rio Zona Norte for a moment. Unless you speak Portuguese well and have spent some time around Brazilians, this is not the area you want to venture in alone. Very few people will speak English and the local guys will not look upon you favorably. Zona Norte is NOT Vila Mimosa. It is not a Red Light District, it is where Brazilians live.

[Mr Enternational]

Tired of my girlfriend. All she wants to do is fuck in the ass. I told her that she is a woman and has a pussy. I like pussy, so I am not fucking her in the ass anymore. She got angry the night we were together and I told her. Fuck that shit. (Well not anymore.).

Eu até achei que você estava brincando quando você me falou que andão queria mais fazer anal.

Qual é o problema deu ser mulher e gostar de fazer anal.

Buceta eu andão consigo gozar com você direito. Anal com você eu fico muito excitada você me faz muito feliz.

[Jimmy Boy 99]

Snip. Eu até achei que você estava brincando quando você me falou que andão queria mais fazer anal.

Qual é o problema deu ser mulher e gostar de fazer anal.

Buceta eu andão consigo gozar com você direito. Anal com você eu fico muito excitada você me faz muito feliz.Should it not be ainda (still) instead of andão (walk)?

[Mr Enternational]

Should it not be ainda (still) instead of ando (walk)?It is actually nao. That is how autocorrect works for the language.

[Exec Talent]

It is actually nao. That is how autocorrect works for the language.Half the time autocorrect mauls the English language, with Portuguese it is hopeless.

My phone seems to do well if I am speaking in one language only, but as soon as I start mixing them up, it becomes confused.

Still, pretty impressive how well it recognizes other languages.

[FuckAfMedDig]

Again, about the Brazilian "dating" sites, I think you missed the operative words -- not that attractive.

When I am walking around, it is easy not only to see what a woman looks like but also get a sense of her personality. On dating sites, who knows who you are actually communicating with. To play with internet marketers, sometimes I have emails that link to a plus-sized, middle-aged woman with 4 kids who works at McDonalds and drives a Mercedes and has a thing for leather. You should see some of the banner ads I get.

So, if you want to waste time on dating sites, have at it. Doesn't make much sense to me. If you have game, then use it in real time by getting out and about. If you don't have game, pay for it. However, if you don't have game and a woman agrees to meet with you, she is going to reject you and you have wasted your time.

A common misconception is that women the world over love a gringo. Wrong. They love your money or they love the same things that a woman in your home country loves.

Let me just talk about Rio Zona Norte for a moment. Unless you speak Portuguese well and have spent some time around Brazilians, this is not the area you want to venture in alone. Very few people will speak English and the local guys will not look upon you favorably. Zona Norte is NOT Vila Mimosa. It is not a Red Light District, it is where Brazilians live.On the contrary I think.

You are missing the point my man. There are very attractive girls on the Cupid sites and possibly hotter on Parferfeito and I've had great success on especially Cupid. Setting up to meet many cool non pros each visit-keeping some on the books for future visits etc-if anything I can get many more girls with my games that way than meeting 2/3 out and about-I still meet girls on the beach, street, boate but I have a lot of choice online and it isn't up to whether a hot girl is out the day I'm out etc. Do both I say.

All I know is that I'm 47 and I'm.

Meeting hot 18/19/20 year olds and in their 20's off the sites, dating and enjoying myself so stick to what you're doing by all means.

[Mr Enternational]

I've had great success on especially Cupid. Setting up to meet many cool non pros each visit-keeping some on the books for future visits etc-if anything I can get many more girls with my games that way than meeting 2/3 out and aboutI have had much success as well online with chicks from around the world. One key thing it does is give a chick enough time to get comfortable with you. And it was really great back in the startup days before everyone was doing it, because she would really feel special that you were coming from the other side of the world just to see her. Mongers and hookers have pretty much ruined how it was on the sites back when, but there is still plenty on offer.

[Sperto]

"In other monger countries its still possible to just talk to a random hot girl in the streets and the chances are high that she is willing to go with you?"
I prefer not to clutter the Rio thread. It would be great if any gringo could go to Brazil and pick-up any girl on the streets, just because he's a gringo. Is that probable? No!

You probably know the feeling. After the first hours in Rio you've accustomed to the smell of maresia from the sea mixtured with the smell of pea. The first week you go smiling to every second bubble butt girl on the street feeling like you´re in heaven. Some girls smile back and flirt and others not. After the first week you don't have to break your neck just to look at all the asses passing by.

Face facts. In Brazil the girls doesn't miss the attention of men. If a beautiful girl pass on the street, every guy/man between young/very old will look and do the psiu-psiu. The girls may appreciate it but it's not a new sensation to them. It takes something more. In my experience I know blond/blue eyed helps a lot. Nonetheless, I have many amigas that I know prefer much more dark skinned guys. It's not about the skin colour. The majority of the cariocas might be curious of gringos but not desperate of getting to know someone. Don't forget that many of the Brazilian guys knows the game much better than you and knows how to keep in shape. If you're out of shape, too old and know no Portuguese you are no longer in the game. Just as it doesn't save you if you know Portuguese, but luck charm and have a big belly.

As many have said before, if you doesn't score easily back home you shouldn't expect too much with non'pro's in Brazil.

I´ve seen some old veterans with <20+ experience in Brazil, good Portuguese, knows the game, no charm but with very good skills to manipulate. They do manage in Brazil. It's not always beautiful but they do get laid even though it takes a lot of theatre. Often it's quite sad.

I've also seen some buddies without almost no skills of Portuguese but with great physics and a lot of charm who got laid with all the top girls. In the Help era some of these guys entered Help and the top 20 girls were literally fighting to get laid with these guys for free. These guys scored girls back home with the same ease.

I love working girls and even more regular girls. If it wasn't for the regular girls in Brazil i would stop going there. My only advice with regular girls, accept for staying fit and learn the language, is to do like the local guys. Flirt everywhere. It doesn't matter if you´re on the beach bus, supermarket, bank, church or whatever, just flirt. When you've reached the stage where you have brazilian friends, guys or girls, it will be even easier.

[Mr Enternational]

"In other monger countries its still possible to just talk to a random hot girl in the streets and the chances are high that she is willing to go with you?"If pimpin was that easy then everybody would be doing it. In the words of a friend of mine, "That country don't exist. " In my day I have met plenty of normal chicks and ended up fucking them the same night. Most of those times it was not even planned, it just ended up happening. In none of those times have I or have I intended to walk outside, meet som random chick, and go back to the room to fuck her. At the times that I have fucked some random stranger that fast it has been mostly luck. Now I have plenty of game, but aa you said walking outside premeditatingly picking up some random chick to fuck is extremely improbable.

[Exec Talent]

Looking back at this discussion of approaching non-pros, keep in mind Brazilian girls generally like flirtation. The problem is many of you have no game at all. If you have no game back home, you likely don't have any game in Brazil. I'm not saying you have to be young and handsome. You just have to know how to start a conversation with an attractive female without looking and drooling with monger eyes.

The girls who aren't interested will take the flirtation as a compliment and let you down politely. The girls who are open to foreign connections and some side money will also appreciate that you are treating them as a regular, attractive woman with respect.I used to take strippers home because I was the only guy who actually looked at them as a person. I would sit near the stage and never look anywhere but their face, especially their eyes. Same when I approached them to tip them. Women can smell desperation and quickly weed out the losers.

[Exec Talent]

There are women who come to Brazil, especially during Carnaval, with the same idea that we have except they do not intend to pay. Here is how that plays out, at least for me: She may be alone or with a couple of like minded friends. They have seen or heard about the well-built Brazilian guys and have their sights set. However, what they did not plan on was how few of those guys speak English or just how intimidating it can be when you are in another country. This is where you step in. You know Rio, you know Portuguese, you know how to be both naughty and nice. I hooked up with a dentist from Mexico whom I met at the hotel breakfast. Smile, be friendly, let them hear you speak Portuguese to the locals. The dentist actually approached me. Also, do not overlook the benefits from being liked by the hotel staff. Even in Brazil they are not going to give you someone's room number, but they will tell you if they have seen a man with that attractive woman waiting in the lobby. I hooked up with a Chinese tourist in Australia by scheduling the same tour. Be creative and adventurous. Do be sure to wear flame retardant clothing, because there will be some crashing and burning. But, of course, we all know they were lesbians. Think this way, what have you got to lose. If you get shot down, happiness is only a hot Brazilian away.

[Spidy]

Easy solution is to stop trying to date hookers and find a normal girlfriend. ... I have been with my girlfriend for 4 years and she has never asked me for shit. . . .


The point of this missive is that Mr. E was spot on right, stop trying to find a meaningful relationship with hookers. Or ex hookers. ...Continued from the Rio thread.

Just checking that logic of yours for a second, if the shoe were on the other foot.

So I guess when it comes time for an ex-mongerer (or sometimes still engaged hobbyist), to have a meaningful relationship with non-pro women (assuming of course, that she knows / knew you paid to fuck hookers on the regular), should they too avoid us like the plague?

Or is this "right", only reserved for men?

Point being, I wonder how many non-pro women would still want to have a meaningful relationship with guys, if they knew our past / recent history, where we've paid to fuck hookers on the regular?

And if they do know and still want to be with us, then do they get what they deserve when shit happens?

[The Cane]

...Continued from the Rio thread.

Just checking that logic of yours for a second, if the shoe were on the other foot.

So I guess when it comes time for an ex-mongerer (or sometimes still engaged hobbyist), to have a meaningful relationship with non-pro women (assuming of course, that she knows / knew you paid to fuck hookers on the regular), should they too avoid us like the plague?

Or is this "right", only reserved for men?

Point being, I wonder how many non-pro women would still want to have a meaningful relationship with guys, if they knew our past / recent history, where we've paid to fuck hookers on the regular?

And if they do know and still want to be with us, then do they get what they deserve when shit happens?Somethings are better left unsaid as nothing good can come from revealing them. That said (no pun is intended), for me personally none of this is an issue because I'm not interested in a "meaningful relationship" with a non-pro woman. I've had several of those, and I'm happier in my personal life as a committed monger.

[Spidy]

Somethings are better left unsaid as nothing good can come from revealing them. That is so true. Excellent advice!

Now that is an all time GREAT answer. You got me...I wasn't expecting such a poignant answer. Very succinct, balanced and cuts to the chase.


...for me personally none of this is an issue because I'm not interested in a "meaningful relationship" with a non-pro woman. I've had several of those, and I'm happier in my personal life as a committed monger.Crane, you definitely bring an unwavering level of clarity to your game, that is admirable. At the moment, I too fall into this category, but with fickle heart, I haven't yet totally given up on the possibility of finding a "meaningful" (ie. trusting and honest) relationship with a non-pro or ex-pro woman.

Yes, that's right I said ex-pro (or better yet ex-semi-pro). We all have "history" and I'm not trying to be a hypocrite.

Look, when you hold up the mirror to yourself, there are definitely some uncomfortable truths and questions that arise. So I don't plan on being a hypocrite and can't judge a woman's past history too harshly, if I can't hold my own past up to the same level of scrutiny.

[Mr Enternational]

I haven't yet totally given up on the possibility of finding a "meaningful" (ie. trusting and honest) relationship with a non-pro or ex-pro woman.

Yes, that's right I said ex-pro (or better yet ex-semi-pro). We all have "history" and I'm not trying to be a hypocrite.That does not sound like you are trying not to be a hypocrite, but more like you feel guilty and will accept an old hooker to be your mate for absolution. Just because you have one leg does not mean you have to accept a lady missing 1 leg and one arm to be your mate. Just because you have 1 kid does not mean you need to accept a woman with 3 kids to be your mate.

Get what you want. Don't get something on the basis that it will make you feel less guilty or less of a hypocrite. You are the one that has to live with it and it is not like you are going to run around telling people you chose an old hooker because you did not want to be a hypocrite so they can pat you on the back. Nobody will know but you. And who said there was anything wrong with being a hypocrite or changing?

[The Cane]

Yes, that's right I said ex-pro (or better yet ex-semi-pro). We all have "history" and I'm not trying to be a hypocrite. Look, when you hold up the mirror to yourself, there are definitely some uncomfortable truths and questions that arise. So I don't plan on being a hypocrite and can't judge a woman's past history too harshly, if I can't hold my own past up to the same level of scrutiny.That's true. Fair is fair. And if you truly feel that way, then you are a better person than many. Because there are plenty, both men and women, who would "excuse" themselves while judging other people harshly. This is all related to one reason why I got tired of traditional dating. I met too many women who wanted things that they themselves could not give or would not give. I got fed up with feeling like I had to constantly be kissing ass just to get somebody to be with me, while they didn't seem to think they needed to do much of anything, except ask a bunch of obtrusive, condescending, offensive questions. I remember being on one date and finally asking, "Is this a date or an inquisition"? She was extremely embarrassed, but that's what she deserved. Talking down to me. Nope!

One time, a long time ago, I was involved in a serious relationship with an ex-prostitute. The interesting thing is that it was well before I would have considered myself to be a "monger". We were so compatible in so many ways. And to this day, I can honestly say that she was the best girlfriend in bed that I have ever had LOL. She knew just what to do and say, and how to please me. In another place and time, we would have married. But, it wasn't meant to be. I broke up with her, and it wasn't just because she had been a prostitute. There were other factors to consider, which led me conclude that it wouldn't work in the long term. To make a long story short, I broke her heart. She became angry and bitter, and eventually returned to prostitution. Once a tute, always a tute. And once a monger, always a monger!

[Stinky Squid]

...Continued from the Rio thread.

Just checking that logic of yours for a second, if the shoe were on the other foot.

So I guess when it comes time for an ex-mongerer (or sometimes still engaged hobbyist), to have a meaningful relationship with non-pro women (assuming of course, that she knows / knew you paid to fuck hookers on the regular), should they too avoid us like the plague?

Or is this "right", only reserved for men?

Point being, I wonder how many non-pro women would still want to have a meaningful relationship with guys, if they knew our past / recent history, where we've paid to fuck hookers on the regular?

And if they do know and still want to be with us, then do they get what they deserve when shit happens?I think about it differently and I know what I'm talking about.

Brazilian girls know full well and expect that gringo dudes who travel in Brazil are in the hobby. If you were to tell her that "no!" she knew you were lying, so why beat around the Bush? I have (or more like had) a very good girl from whom I learned so much, who never herself was in this, but she knew tons of girls who are. Man the stories she would tell. All but what she thinks the WGs are charging is very interesting. When it comes to her idea of what they charge, it is oddly completely off. I think what happens is that the WGs are bragging how much they charge, and in reality they aren't.

Anyway, no need to lie about it. In fact you should be straight forward, and shake out some of that feminist nonsense about "equality". I have been there caught up in this myself, but there is no point of believing in bullshit but in your own life choices equivocating your own pretended beliefs.

Here is how this works: it is extremely hard to reform a puta. Unless you "saved" her early in the game. Once she is experienced, she is no longer LTR material except if you expect the LTR to have a set expiration date of a year or two. If you prepare yourself what's coming and are fine with it, then it's fine. I mean, just listen to the notoriously infamous "Ins Brasil" and her German husband who apparently was fine with her being the most famous working girl of Munich or wherever she lived then. If you want wifey material then that's definitely not going to work out.

Now as for us men, the thing is different. I believe all men have it in themselves to want to sample variety. And while monger types will have less scruples with that I think men who want a committed relationship can pick one (and picking the one they really want can come from a better place of understanding then) and they can start falling in love and just focus on the one they choose. IMO where that breaks down with men is when she starts to become difficult and withdraws and withholds and has "headaches" or other bullshit. That is where men start wandering off. But with women it seems different. Once they lose that magic they have a very hard time to come back to develop some focus on one husband.

So no, there is no equality here. And the issue isn't the past, the issue is how the past affects the future. There is a reason why in ancient law (whether secular or Biblical or Koranic law) "adultery" was defined as sex with a woman married to someone else. I can lecture on this, it is true. This is not some patriarchy oppression (insert whining here) bullshit, it simply makes sense from a deep understanding of the biologic and evolutional psychology point of view and the difference between herd animals and human civilization. . To make a long story short, as for how to deal with a Brazilian GF:

You can be straight with her. Be straight and do not try to lie (she knows) and especially do not lie to yourself. Make sure you quarantine for some time and do a complete check, including HPV, herpes, clamydia, aside from the more infamous STDs. Then go into that one girl only and consider what it takes for you to stick to that one. Unless you negotiate some "open relationship", which is probably not then a real good LTR, then you should look at the prospect of not fooling around anymore. You should have it out of your system then. This doesn't mean you need to be guilty nor play a part in this endless anti-male propaganda that women are full of (as if men are the only ones who cheat or let the relationship down.) You have to lead that relationship right so that you catch hick-ups early on and correct them before they fester. And in the process you might find out that the "R" wasn't to last that much of "LT" as you hoped.

Another thing to keep in mind when moving from the mongering field to the relationship. Good women will want to establish a stable home and children. Think about this. You cannot deny a girl the wish for children. She may think she doesn't want to until she hits 30 and then it will explode. It is not fair if you make a girl promise you she'll be fine without children just as it is not fair for a woman to make a man promise her that he'll be fine with timid lights-out sex once a week. It just doesn't work. Even just for the sake of the children, then, marriage is the thing you should look into. This also means a pre-nup. That idea needs to be talked about within the first two years of an LTR. If marriage takes some time to get paperwork together, you can go ahead with declaring an uniao estavel (civil union) at any cartorio on a walk in basis. All that's required is ID. In that, you should choose "separcao total de bens" right up front (and have a conversation about this way earlier). You should in such a contract consider building on the basis of total asset separation and add back fair consideration of her needs in contingencies. Many relationships fail and hard to put all blame on one side. But lack of a hard asset separation is a risk factor for early rent-seeking by the woman. You must absolutely secure her from your heirs though, there are many stories where the female companions of decades find themselves booted out from the marital home and basically thrown into the gutter by the heirs of the deceased man. You should also promise her some level of security over time, such as her own assets that build up over time from your contributions.

Plan for reality with open eyes and a good heart, and live your life to the fullest extent!

[The Cane]

That does not sound like you are trying not to be a hypocrite, but more like you feel guilty and will accept an old hooker to be your mate for absolution. Just because you have one leg does not mean you have to accept a lady missing 1 leg and one arm to be your mate. Just because you have 1 kid does not mean you need to accept a woman with 3 kids to be your mate.

Get what you want. Don't get something on the basis that it will make you feel less guilty or less of a hypocrite. You are the one that has to live with it and it is not like you are going to run around telling people you chose an old hooker because you did not want to be a hypocrite so they can pat you on the back. Nobody will know but you. And who said there was anything wrong with being a hypocrite or changing?I didn't take Spidy's post to mean that he would "settle" for an old, broken down, ex-pro. No, I took it more as he would consider both ex-pros and non-pros equally, partially because he doesn't want to be a hypocrite. And what's wrong with being a hypocrite? Well, that's one of those where my thought is, "If you don't know that already". Shrugs.

[Xpartan]

I think about it differently and I know what I'm talking about.

Brazilian girls know full well and expect that gringo dudes who travel in Brazil are in the hobby. If you were to tell her that "no!" she knew you were lying, so why beat around the Bush? I have (or more like had) a very good girl from whom I learned so much, who never herself was in this, but she knew tons of girls who are. Man the stories she would tell. All but what she thinks the WGs are charging is very interesting. When it comes to her idea of what they charge, it is oddly completely off. I think what happens is that the WGs are bragging how much they charge, and in reality they aren't.

Anyway, no need to lie about it. In fact you should be straight forward, and shake out some of that feminist nonsense about "equality". I have been there caught up in this myself, but there is no point of believing in bullshit but in your own life choices equivocating your own pretended beliefs.First off, it's not true. "Normal" tourists still come to Brazil and for a good reason -- there are plenty to see. But an even better way is to tell them you're on a business trip and come frequently (do some research on the net to back up your story).

Under no circumstances should a monger confess to a nonpro. That would be a no starter, IMHO.

Now, with a working girl or semi-pro, there is no reason to lie. Quite the opposite, they need to be made aware that you know the scene.

Seriously, why not just enjoy the best fun city in the world? Mongering and committed relationships don't mix (in my limited experience).

[Spidy]

That does not sound like you are trying not to be a hypocrite, but more like you feel guilty and will accept an old hooker to be your mate for absolution ...Doesn't really make sense to me and my so called "guilt", but Okay. First with regards to my "guilt", don't infer, what isn't there. If I was to pursue for a "meaningful" relationship, trust and honesty are two of the basic foundational pillars of a relationship, that I would look for, whether she be a hot 8+ hottie or a one-eyed peg leg lady.


Get what you want. Don't get something on the basis that it will make you feel less guilty or less of a hypocrite ...Second, your level of consideration for me is very touching. The fact that you would show such regards me for "getting what I want", is so very touching.

If I should find that elusive old, one-eyed, one-leg hooker with 3-kids, then that is entirely my choice, if she happens to tick all of my relationship boxes I require.

Absolution....hmmmm!

Third, well I guess that depends on your point of view. Perhaps it is you who is trying to find absolution with a "non-pro" and you who is hiding a life long guilt, for fucking hoards of hookers, from all around the world?

If mongerers don't feel "guilty" about fucking women for money, why should a women feel "guilty" working and fucking for her money, in a past life.

[Spidy]

I didn't take Spidy's post to mean that he would "settle" for an old, broken down, ex-pro. No, I took it more as he would consider both ex-pros and non-pros equally, partially because he doesn't want to be a hypocrite...Exactly my point.


...And what's wrong with being a hypocrite? Well, that's one of those where my thought is, "If you don't know that already". Shrugs.. We've all been guilty of this, but admitting to it is another story.


... And who said there was anything wrong with being a hypocrite or changing? Well, I did entitle my post "ex-Mongerer in the Mirror".

[Vagabundo1]

There are definitely female sex tourists, and we male sex tourists could very easily partner up if we can offer language and cultural translation skills.


There are women who come to Brazil, especially during Carnaval, with the same idea that we have except they do not intend to pay. Here is how that plays out, at least for me: She may be alone or with a couple of like minded friends. They have seen or heard about the well-built Brazilian guys and have their sights set. However, what they did not plan on was how few of those guys speak English or just how intimidating it can be when you are in another country. This is where you step in. You know Rio, you know Portuguese, you know how to be both naughty and nice. I hooked up with a dentist from Mexico whom I met at the hotel breakfast. Smile, be friendly, let them hear you speak Portuguese to the locals. The dentist actually approached me. Also, do not overlook the benefits from being liked by the hotel staff. Even in Brazil they are not going to give you someone's room number, but they will tell you if they have seen a man with that attractive woman waiting in the lobby. I hooked up with a Chinese tourist in Australia by scheduling the same tour. Be creative and adventurous. Do be sure to wear flame retardant clothing, because there will be some crashing and burning. But, of course, we all know they were lesbians. Think this way, what have you got to lose. If you get shot down, happiness is only a hot Brazilian away.

[Vagabundo1]

I received an interesting PM on this subject.

Here was my response.

Some Women in the rich world I know love Brazilian men, compliment them.

I imagine a lot of swinger couples would be quite happy to come to Brazil to spice up their marriage.

I met the owner / operators of this site.

https://www.swinger-blog.xxx/

At the AVN convention in Las Vegas, in 2020.

It would be probably pretty easy to get a pipeline of swinger couples who want to come here to Brazil for the talent.

Many of my favorite Brazilian girls like to go to a swing club, which is available at Botafogo, the 2 a2 club, etc, or at a lower cost point, essentially what a nude beach with nearby jungle is.


There are definitely female sex tourists, and we male sex tourists could very easily partner up if we can offer language and cultural translation skills.

[Mr Enternational]

...Continued from the Rio thread.

Just checking that logic of yours for a second, if the shoe were on the other foot.

So I guess when it comes time for an ex-mongerer (or sometimes still engaged hobbyist), to have a meaningful relationship with non-pro women (assuming of course, that she knows / knew you paid to fuck hookers on the regular), should they too avoid us like the plague?

Or is this "right", only reserved for men?

Point being, I wonder how many non-pro women would still want to have a meaningful relationship with guys, if they knew our past / recent history, where we've paid to fuck hookers on the regular?

And if they do know and still want to be with us, then do they get what they deserve when shit happens?I am sure that I will be all over with this response, but here goes. I think I am an outlier here in many ways. I am more of a player and less of a monger. I have fucked way more chicks that are not hookers than chicks that are. I did not choose this shit, this shit chose me. All you can do is be yourself. Don't try to be someone that you are not. All the stuff here that I talk about doing is just my personality and may not be right for you. So although you can copy what someone does, you may not get the same outcomes that they are able to get.

What is a meaningful relationship? There are different strokes for different folks. What may be right for some may not be right for others. Take for instance today's young crowd. I feel like a fish out of water when it comes to them. I was recently in Seattle and perusing Tinder. I constantly saw so much shit that was so crazy to me that I had to get off of that shit because I literally thought I was going to have nightmares about it. It is like there is no ordinary boy - girl shit anymore. Everybody is pansexual and all kind of other shit that as a linguist I can not even pronounce. That shit seems like a circus or freak show to me, but to them I am sure it is just another day. So if your idea of a meaningful relationship is Ward and June Cleaver, then 2021 has a rude awakening for you. Relationships are meaningful to different people for different reasons..

So for a shoe to be on the other foot you are assuming that the guy can not handle the same things from a woman that he himself does. First I would say, why does he have to? In a fairy tale equal goose and gander society then maybe so. But this place is not as equal as some would have you believe. As I said, some people can get away with things that some other people can not. Donald Trump could get away with grabbing them by the pussy, but it ended up not working out so well for Harvey Weinstein.

So whether you want to say it is hypocritical or whatever, it is simply playing one's part. I am 5'9". Why them NBA mfs won't lower the rim so that I can dunk the ball too? It ain't fair I tell you! Why is this right only reserved for them? Everything is not for everybody. I know that is not my lane, so I am not trying to travel in it.

As I said, I am an outlier here. It seems most guys try to hide who they are and what they do while I do not. I have not seen any repercussions in my life because of how I move. Most guys here seem to think there would be nuclear fallout from doing some of the things I do on a daily basis. So these are episodes from my life:

Most guys say you can not tell a normal Dominican chick that you are going to Sosua because it is known for hookers. I have invited many a normal Dominican chick from other cities to visit me while I was in Sosua. Nobody hollered out eeeek no not Sosua you dirty bastard. They came and we had great times.

I think it was April when I happened to be in Santo Domingo the same time as my brother, 2 cousins, and 1 cousin's wife was there. We were sitting at Manolo's restaurant and they decided they wanted to see some hookers. Now I am with a non-pro chick. But my personality is fuck it. I drove around to show them the street walkers and we stopped to talk shit to them. Then I took them to a cat house where I know the owner. Later on my girl said that she was sad that I could know such places. I told her that is real life. It was just yesterday that she was telling me to come fuck her and how much she wants me.

I crossed the border from Tijuana into San Diego and the immigration officer asked me what I was doing in Mexico. I said fucking them hoes. He said welcome back. It seems most guys on this board try to pass off some bullshit doctor's appointment as their reason for going, like they do not really know the truth and probably do the same thing on their days off.

I took a White female coworker to Tijuana and after we met up with a board member whose birthday it was, me and her got a street chick together that I paid $20 for. I will attach a pic here where she is sucking candy or something off a chick's nipple in Hong Kong and the waiter is posing and giving thumbs up, while most mfs would be scared to even pull out a camera or let someone know he has even heard of a place called Hong Kong. And I did not even know this chick went or wanted to go both ways until we walked into that club and she started talking about her fantasy. Well call me Aladin, because I am about to make your wish come true.

I took my mom and 2 of her sisters to Lucifer hooker disco on Walking Street in Pattaya.

My dad said that if he had known about all the places we have been mongering when he was younger then he never would have gotten married. He still goes whenever he gets a chance though and several board members have met my dad.

A non-pro chick that I mess with in Pattaya likes to say that I am always out fucking bitches. I tell her they are not bitches, you are my only biotch.

I am fucking a waitress that lives in the same apartments that I live in in Pattaya. One morning I was taking a chick back home that had spent the night. We passed in opposite directions on our motorbikes. She later sent me a message saying how sad she was to see me with another chick. I said first of all you should not have been looking. Second of all, what time are you coming tonight?

A non-pro chick that I mess with in Pattaya was leaving my place one morning. A White guy that also lives there (don't know if he is American or European), walked out the same time as she did. She later sent me a message saying that guy told her that I have a different chick over every night. She said she told him that I should because I am a handsome guy. Don't know why he called himself throwing a monkey wrench in my shit, but it did not work.

I don't have a need to clean up when one chick leaves. If the next chick comes and talks about how she sees some hair from another girl I tell her that is why she is fucking here, to clean the shit up.

My main girlfriend in Brazil says that as long as I am all hers when we are together. So evidently she finds our relationship to be meaningful since she has been catering the heck to me for the last 4 years.

Nurse chick in Curitiba just loves licking my ass like she is an alchemist trying to turn shit into gold. She said that those other girls can have my dick just as long as she can have my ass. I will not dare disappoint her.

When I meet a woman and she says that she does not want a man that is just looking for sex, I tell her the closest place to her that has hookers and say if I was just looking for sex then I could just go there and pay usually what is some amount much less than they expected hookers to cost (as Stinky Squid was even saying).

I could go on forever, but hopefully you get the idea. There is no shoe going on other feet. The shoe fits the foot that it belongs on as it did in the Cinderella story; any other mf is not going to be comfortable walking in it.

[Mr Enternational]

Just checking that logic of yours for a second, if the shoe were on the other foot.Forgot about the time that I was married and I came home about 3am on a weeknight from a friend's house. Was not doing anything but hanging out. When I got home and got in the bed, my wife got up and left the house. She came back later mad that I did not ask where she was going. I told her that she was a grown woman. If she wanted me to know where she was going then she would have told me. Then I rolled over and went back to sleep.

[Stinky Squid]

First off, it's not true. "Normal" tourists still come to Brazil and for a good reason -- there are plenty to see. But an even better way is to tell them you're on a business trip and come frequently (do some research on the net to back up your story).Yeah sure, like business travel inhibits a man from doing extracurricular activities. There is no way you're going to be believed and why should you lie about it.


Under no circumstances should a monger confess to a nonpro. That would be a no starter, IMHO.You are deluding yourself. Single guy traveling in Brazil is NOT doing it to "experience the arts and the culture". That's bullshit. No Brazilian chick believes that. And I have known my share of Brazilians girls, they are not prude about this stuff. Even my very straight and religious 7 year LTR.


Seriously, why not just enjoy the best fun city in the world? Mongering and committed relationships don't mix (in my limited experience).You are not thinking straight whether that means too much or to little is neither here nor there. I did not say that the two lives "mix" although as Mr. Entertainment says, it completely depends on whether you are upfront out the barn or if you beat around the Bush. I have not yet mixed them but this year I am intending to do so whatever happens.

[Spidy]

Under no circumstances should a monger confess to a nonpro. That would be a no starter, IMHO. Thought it was funny how you used the word "confess" as if us mongerers, were attending church. ...kkkk

[Spidy]

...Here is how this works: it is extremely hard to reform a puta. Unless you "saved" her early in the game. Once she is experienced, she is no longer LTR material except if you expect the LTR to have a set expiration date of a year or two. ...

So no, there is no equality here. And the issue isn't the past, the issue is how the past affects the future. ...You make some interesting points, albeit tough for me to decipher at times.

I was looking to post this earlier, to hopefully somewhat clarify my argument, as to what some BMs see as a "non-pro", as we were being told (from BMs in the Rio thread) to stop trying to find relationships with "ex-pros" and "pros" and to find a get a girlfriend with a "non-pro". Hence I am trying to get a feel for what in the mind of a monger, constitutes or is considered a "non-pro" relationship?

As Mr V, puts it:


The point of this missive is that Mr. E was spot on right, stop trying to find a meaningful relationship with hookers. Or ex hookers. As Mr E, puts it:


Easy solution is to stop trying to date hookers and find a normal girlfriend. ... I have been with my girlfriend for 4 years and she has never asked me for shit. . . . And Here:


So if your idea of a meaningful relationship is Ward and June Cleaver, then 2021 has a rude awakening for you. Relationships are meaningful to different people for different reasons. And if, "Relationships are meaningful to different people for different reasons", why judge and tell BMs / mongers who they should date and have a meaningful relationship with at all?

So on the one hand you should stop dating hookers and ex-hookers, but yet if you choose to define your normal "non-pro" meaningful relationship as looking like Ward and June Cleaver, then you're in for a rude awakening. So what now? Do mongerers reading this go back to dating hookers?

Okay, maybe not, but I ask you to first consider the following:


Today, with more and more women, in Brazil (heck Latin America and heck worldwide), being in various deleterious circumstances and having to turn to prostitution, escorting, sponsorship or "sugar babying" (basically at one-point or another, selling their bodies), to make ends-meet, to feed their families, or put themselves through schooling and eventually become dentists, lawyers, accountants, doctors...etc, often showcase they can and do go on to lead "normal" lives, in these new found professions. With that said, it begs the questions, do you still label these women as ex-pros? Or do they become "non-pros"? If some ONLY do it for a few times are they still "non-pros"? What is a few times?

Or is it as Cane says:


Once a tute, always a tute. And once a monger, always a monger! Look, one of the tenants for dating a "non-pro", is that we all assume she's a non-pro, unless we find evidence to the contrary or she confesses to playing some role in the profession. Also naturally, she would assume the same about us, unless she finds evidence to the contrary or we confess.

Which is poignantly expressed by Cane:


"Somethings are better left unsaid as nothing good can come from revealing them."And seconded by Xpartan:


"Under no circumstances should a monger confess to a nonpro. That would be a no starter, IMHO."Since neither side would be silly enough to confess and these type of questions are never asked and would be totally inappropriate to do so, in a "non-pro" relationship, a mongerer can take solace and sleep soundly at night, knowing that she isn't in the least bit an "ex-pro" and that she is also soundly sleeping, knowing you are a not in the least bit an "ex-mongerer".

Sarcasm aside, point being you never really know, until you know.

[Spidy]

I am sure that I will be all over with this response, but here goes. Done with a response... "it's up to you", as they say in SEA.


Absolution and its many forms...

Third, well I guess that depends on your point of view. Perhaps it is you who is trying to find absolution with a "non-pro" and you who is hiding a life long guilt, for fucking hoards of hookers, from all around the world?

If mongerers don't feel "guilty" about fucking women for money, why should a women feel "guilty" working and fucking for her money, in a past life.


I think I am an outlier here in many ways. I am more of a player and less of a monger. I have fucked way more chicks that are not hookers than chicks that are. ... Can you quantify that for me? So how many hookers does a man, fuck for money before he's no longer considered a player / man and becomes a monger? How or when does one go from player mode to monger mode?

Riddle me this, how many times does a woman have to fuck for money, before she's considered a hooker and no longer a "non-pro"?

This all plays into what I've posted (below) to Stinky Squid, clarifying my argument, which I'd hoped to post sooner, but anyways.


What is a meaningful relationship? There are different strokes for different folks. What may be right for some may not be right for others. . . .

Relationships are meaningful to different people for different reasons.I've always advocated this throughout my ISG posting history. If you can point to a post were I've ever given a unsolicited critique of a BM and their relationship to a "non-pro" or "ex-pro" (or for that matter a "semi-pro, "pro") then I will stand corrected.


So for a shoe to be on the other foot you are assuming that the guy can not handle the same things from a woman that he himself does. First I would say, why does he have to? In a fairy tale equal goose and gander society then maybe so. But this place is not as equal as some would have you believeSure the world is unfair and their will always be bullies, if left unchecked. If you choose to be a hypocrite and treat your women with, "life isn't fair, so eat it", "my way or the highway" prehistoric "Agent Orange" macho, machismo bullshit and that works for you, then go head, you do you, by all means. No judgement here with regards to how you manage your relationships. The world is after all how we choose to see it.

As you've made it painfully clear:


...And who said there was anything wrong with being a hypocrite or changing? Change only comes for those willing to change.


I could go on forever, but hopefully you get the idea. Please free to go on. This topic interests me greatly.

That topic being, relationships with "non-pros" garotas, since we are in the "Non-Pro" thread and in the mind of a monger, what he may or may not view as a "non-pro" garota.

[Mr Enternational]

And if, "Relationships are meaningful to different people for different reasons", why judge and tell BMs / mongers who they should date and have a meaningful relationship with at all?Because life is a game of chances. If you feel you got fucked over by a hooker as the orignal poster wrote happened to him, then maybe it is time to try regular chicks for regular shit. Not to say you can not get fucked over by a regular chick, but the chances are lower.

It is like when the scorpion convinced the frog to take him across the river. Even the scorpion was like "Mf I am a damn scorpion, you did not see this coming?," when he killed the frog. Yet your vote is to carry scorpions across rivers?

In one video I posted below the woman was like mf I am a stripper, you did not see this coming, when the dude sued her for his money back.

There should be no surprises when a guy decides to deal with hookers. Same way people say to lock all your shit up before inviting a hooker to your room. Are they saying this because hookers are more likely to add to your value or because they are known to steal shit from you?

If you use your money to get a chick, then you can not be surprised if a chick uses you for your money. But keep searching through a pile of shit to find that hooker with a heart of gold.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kGde5zToFoE&t=77s

https://www.insideedition.com/millionaire-wants-ex-to-give-him-back-over-1m-in-gifts-after-he-says-he-learned-she-posed-on-65483

[The Cane]

Forgot about the time that I was married and I came home about 3am on a weeknight from a friend's house. Was not doing anything but hanging out. When I got home and got in the bed, my wife got up and left the house. She came back later mad that I did not ask where she was going. I told her that she was a grown woman. If she wanted me to know where she was going then she would have told me. Then I rolled over and went back to sleep.I used to have a girlfriend who would get upset because I would never show jealousy towards her. She would do things to try to make me act jealous, but I never would. I would say that I don't have time for childish nonsense. If you want to be with me, then you do. And if you don't, then you don't. And that's that. I eventually broke up with her immature ass. The fuck out of here!

[Mr Enternational]

Riddle me this, how many times does a woman have to fuck for money, before she's considered a hooker and no longer a "non-pro"?Goes along with a couple of other age old questions. If every board of a ship is changed out, is it still the same ship?

If a dude fucks another dude once is he gay? How many times would he have to do it before he is considered gay and no longer straight? If a gay dude fucked a female once is he no longer gay? How many times would he have to do it to be considered straight?

If I did carpentry every day in the 90's, but in 2021 only do carpentry every blue moon, am I still considered a carpenter?

Maybe there are no absolutes, but there can be generalizations. And if you put all your eggs into a hooker's basket then you can generally not expect the best outcome.

[Stinky Squid]

Sarcasm aside, point being you never really know, until you know.I think we all can agree to that.

Are there any remaining issues to solve?

[Spidy]

I think we all can agree to that.

Are there any remaining issues to solve?Glad you asked. Any opinions on the following:


You are deluding yourself. Single guy traveling in Brazil is NOT doing it to "experience the arts and the culture". That's bullshit. No Brazilian chick believes that. And I have known my share of Brazilians girls, they are not prude about this stuff. Even my very straight and religious 7 year LTR.Could that be because she herself has perhaps, already dabbled in the profession in one manner or another? Or perhaps (as I think you've mentioned) she knows or has a friend, aunt, cousin, sister or relative that's been in the profession? Hence word get around around about estrangeiros and in turn why your LTR, isn't that prudish this about this stuff?

To my point, it is all part of a Brazilian GDP sub culture, I think, where its not widely accepted, but it's tolerated, knowing that it hard for women of little means, to a find decent paying job, let alone good paying job and so it's widely known, but kept on the down low, that "non-pros", "good girls/women", will at times need to supplement their income, by selling their bodies?

[Spidy]

...If you use your money to get a chick, then you can not be surprised if a chick uses you for your money. But keep searching through a pile of shit to find that hooker with a heart of gold.

I think your getting bit off topic for the "Non-Pro-Garotas-Opinions-Advice" thread.

My arguments are centered around "non-pros" and when they ceased becoming "non-pros" and become "semi-pro / pros", given today's jet-fueled crazy environment (paraphrasing one your previous comments), specifically (but not limited to) the Brazilian GDP sub-culture (which I believe has been around for years), that a modicum to medium number of "non-pros", have in their past, used or dabbled in the profession, as a means to an end.

As I've outlined here:


Okay, maybe not, but I ask you to first consider the following:

Today, with more and more women, in Brazil (heck Latin America and heck worldwide), being in various deleterious circumstances and having to turn to prostitution, escorting, sponsorship

or "sugar babying" (basically at one-point or another, selling their bodies), to make ends-meet, to feed their families, or put themselves through schooling and eventually become dentists, lawyers, accountants, doctors...etc, often showcase they can and do go on to lead "normal" lives, in these new found professions.And here:


With that said, it begs the questions, do you still label these women as ex-pros? Or do they become "non-pros"? If some ONLY do it for a few times are they still "non-pros"? What is a few times? And here:


Since neither side would be silly enough to confess and these type of questions are never asked and would be totally inappropriate to do so, in a "non-pro" relationship, a mongerer can take solace and sleep soundly at night, knowing that she isn't in the least bit an "ex-pro" and that she is also soundly sleeping, knowing you are a not in the least bit an "ex-mongerer".

Sarcasm aside, point being you never really know, until you know. And now here:


Could that be because she herself has perhaps, already dabbled in the profession in one manner or another? Or perhaps...Let me bottom line it for you. Given what I've outlined here and previously. I'm arguing the following:

1) When mongerers are dating or in relationship with "non-pro" garotas, without hard evidence or a confession from said "non-pro" garota, is there anyway of knowing that she hasn't dipped "one pinky toe", into prostitution, in one form or other in her past life?

2) For the sake of argument, let's say hard evidence or a confession from said "non-pro" garota was established. What then?

A) Do I take a zero tolerance approach?

C) It was ONLY one time she says, so all is forgiven?

B) It was ONLY a couple times and that was years ago, so all is forgiven?

D) Is it, "once a hoe, always a hoe", even if it was just one time to pay for university, school, utility bills, food...etc?

E) She retaliates and fires-back, "Men pay to fuck hookers all the time, I bet you have in your past life". What do you say?

F) Do you confess or continue to be a hypocrite?

H) Do you now consider this "non-pro" garota, that you've known for several years and now has a stable job as a dentist, lawyer, accountant, doctor, clerk, secretary. Etc, now as just a "hoe"?

So opinions, advice and comments given this type of "non-pro" garota scenario.

[Mr Enternational]

I think your getting bit off topic for the "Non-Pro-Garotas-Opinions-Advice" thread.Sorry. This entire discussion started from one guy saying he paid $3000 to fly a hooker to London and trinkets for her and got fucked over. I said well get a non-pro girl for shit like that instead of a hooker for best results. I was not aware that the discussion had strayed from that original topic.

You do not know what someone does not want you to know. As I said before, it is not my personality to be digging around trying to find dirt on someone like some people from the board trying to hire private detectives and shit. If they tell me that is what it is then that is what it is. Sure I love people and enjoy their company, but I still kind of live by the Gone in 60 Seconds mantra and realize that people come and go.

[The Cane]

So gentleman, in conclusion, the attached photo is what it's all about for a working girl. For many, many "non-working" girls too for that matter! Hahahaha!

[Spidy]

Sorry. This entire discussion started from one guy saying he paid $3000 to fly a hooker to London and trinkets for her and got fucked over. I said well get a non-pro girl for shit like that instead of a hooker for best results. I was not aware that the discussion had strayed from that original topic.That is correct, as that discussion was mostly related to "hooker" talk in the Rio thread. However, the "non-pro", part of the conversation, I determined should be continued in the " Non-Pro Garotas. Opinions & Advice" thread, if anyone was interested.

I then posted:


As it turns out, I do have several questions related to dating / relationships with non-pro women, should you care to continue discussing the subject matter in the Brazil "Non-Pro Garotas. Opinions & Advice" thread. My questions in this thread, were always related to "non-pros" or "non-pros vs monger" points of view.


If they tell me that is what it is then that is what it is. Or first ask the question, to know it is what it is. Ok fair enough, it's not in your nature to snoop around, as you say.

Nor was I advocating snooping around. If for what ever reason, by confession or evidence "falls in your lap", then what?


Sure I love people and enjoy their company, but I still kind of live by the Gone in 60 Seconds mantra and realize that people come and go.]Hey, no worries, if the subject topic isn't you your liking.

[Stinky Squid]

Why is this so complicated?


Let me bottom line it for you. Given what I've outlined here and previously. I'm arguing the following:

1) When mongerers are dating or in relationship with "non-pro" garotas, without hard evidence or a confession from said "non-pro" garota, is there anyway of knowing that she hasn't dipped "one pinky toe", into prostitution, in one form or other in her past life?No, but you can assume it. My fateful girl that I used to blow up my boring life 10 years ago, she turned out to have been a semi-pro and cheated on my while we were together. There is unexplained lapses which are just telling it.

My second super angel GF did some research and was in contact with my fateful semi-pro family, the semi-pro-ness ran in the family. Mother did that too. And as usual, the brother ended up gay.


2) For the sake of argument, let's say hard evidence or a confession from said "non-pro" garota was established. What then?It depends on what you want man! If you want to continue fooling around, then why even bother?

I tell you you can play the one back who is playing you. It is actually quite nice to play with insta-love. If she fakes it, so what? You'd pay a puta to fake the GFE, so why not take the fake insta-love from a non-pro for free? And besides, it's not fake. These girls are seriously confused. My fateful girl was definitely feeling something for me. She was just not sane to be counted as a stable partner.

So it depends what you want.


A) Do I take a zero tolerance approach?
What does this even mean? Are you gonna jail her or what?


C) It was ONLY one time she says, so all is forgiven?
If she tells you about it, chalk that up as her being honest with you and you can talk from there. Remember, NOBODY is "forced" into prostitution "by the circumstanced". Grooming and breaking in kidnapped girls is all the story of wild novels. Not even in India is it really done that way. But definitely NOT in Brazil. Prostitution is always a choice, and it is an easy choice. My angel GF has literally been picking trash from trash heaps as a 5 year old, abject poverty and hardships, and she never did this, instead she created honest income streams. Nobody is forced.

But honesty counts as something. I like the honesty of the professionals and the arrangement seekers. They are there for a goal. But that still doesn't mean they are solid relationship material to marry and have kids with.


B) It was ONLY a couple times and that was years ago, so all is forgiven?What the fuck do you have to "forgive" here? Are you God or what? You are a monger! You have nothing to "forgive"! But she still is probably not marriage material. That's all.


D) Is it, "once a hoe, always a hoe", even if it was just one time to pay for university, school, utility bills, food...etc?Why do you harp on that point? A hoe had made a choice to get quick money by providing this service. That tells you her priorities. It is a constitutional part of her personality. A good girl who dreams of husband and family does not do this.


E) She retaliates and fires-back, "Men pay to fuck hookers all the time, I bet you have in your past life". What do you say?See above, you have a wrong attitude to the whole issue. That's why you keep harping on it. Be enlightened. You can like a girl who is a hooker, you can be smitten, you can have compassion, you can wish you could unite with her, you can play marriage with her, it is just not very probable that you'll have a stable marriage. If you're not looking for marriage, you can enjoy it while it lasts.

I am a very emotional guy. I love to love the girl I am with. Even my last "atriz porno" I reported on, I have feelings for her. I could play "fall in love" with any girl who pleases my taste. And it is nice while it lasts. When it breaks up, you shed some tears and move on. I look back at my life and I cherish all the encounters I had that had any emotional tickle. I do not feel hurt even about stuff that went sour. The moments were great or I would not have enjoyed them then.


F) Do you confess or continue to be a hypocrite?You ARE a hypocrite. You have also nothing to "confess". You like girls, you want it. Why not say what is so obvious. Really, Brazilian girls know that a single gringo traveler is NOT in Brazil to enjoy the "culture" (what culture anyway?) that is bullshit!


H) Do you now consider this "non-pro" garota, that you've known for several years and now has a stable job as a dentist, lawyer, accountant, doctor, clerk, secretary. Etc, now as just a "hoe"?I couldn't care less about a woman's job and how much she makes. I am not looking for someone to supplement my income. I want a girl who is stable and available and who respects me and, for really long term, one who wants her own family. Love is for the purpose of procreation, biology in full power. Like I said earlier, you cannot have an LTR with a good girl and deny her children. It's not going anywhere. You're just wasting here life. Be a player instead. But do not mislead good girls by promising her something you have no intention to fulfill. I hate guys who spoil good girls with marriage promise. There are enough girls in the world who have already stepped into the zone and are available for play.


So opinions, advice and comments given this type of "non-pro" garota scenario.Read it and reap. Take it or leave it. But I know I am right.

[WyattEarp]

So gentleman, in conclusion, the attached photo is what it's all about for a working girl. For many, many "non-working" girls too for that matter! Hahahaha!Hey, that's my friend Benjamin. I know him very well. He's been with a lot of working girls. I'm surprised the moderators didn't take down your photo of him or at least blur his face.

[WyattEarp]

I think about it differently and I know what I'm talking about.

Brazilian girls know full well and expect that gringo dudes who travel in Brazil are in the hobby. If you were to tell her that "no!" she knew you were lying, so why beat around the Bush?I don't quite understand why "don't ask, don't tell" is not the best policy. I've been going down to Brazil for work over many years. I have some male confidants who I pal around with in a few cities. I have dated women in their circles and this topic never, never comes up with the women.

In fact one time when I was heading to Rio for some "relaxation" after biz in Help Disco's glory years. A younger male in the circle called me on it in front of mixed company. A senior member quickly shut down the topic and gave him a foreboding look. My experience tells me many Brazilian men routinely take advantage of the carnal delights Brazil has to offer. It's not something that is talked about in mixed company or with one's significant other. The women might know it, but do not want to hear about it.

[Xpartan]

Thought it was funny how you used the word "confess" as if us mongerers, were attending church. ...kkkkLOL, how else would you call advising (for whatever reason) a supposedly nonpro woman you're hoping to bed that you enjoy fucking tutes?


So gentleman, in conclusion, the attached photo is what it's all about for a working girl. For many, many "non-working" girls too for that matter! Hahahaha!Brilliant! On both counts.


Yeah sure, like business travel inhibits a man from doing extracurricular activities. There is no way you're going to be believed and why should you lie about it.

You are deluding yourself. Single guy traveling in Brazil is NOT doing it to "experience the arts and the culture". That's bullshit. No Brazilian chick believes that. And I have known my share of Brazilians girls, they are not prude about this stuff. Even my very straight and religious 7 year LTR.

You are not thinking straight whether that means too much or to little is neither here nor there. I did not say that the two lives "mix" although as Mr. Entertainment says, it completely depends on whether you are upfront out the barn or if you beat around the Bush. I have not yet mixed them but this year I am intending to do so whatever happens.I'm deluding myself. OK, fine.

Only who says anything about "arts and culture"? Have you even been anywhere in Brazil outside Copacabana? Have you seen Iguassu Falls, Salvador, have you been to Octoberfest in Blumenau? Have you visited Ilha Grande, Buzios, Lencois Marenhances (sp?), Amazon? I would go to all these places again, alone or with a buddy even if there was no one to fuck. It's actually sad that some guys don't even see the beauty of Brazil beyond a bunda.

But OK, let's say you're right about "arts and culture" (you're not). Do you have any idea how many "single guys" travel to Brazil for work? I'm on a plane with this quiet dude from OK, who's at consulting firm for Petrobras. Heard something from his Brazilian colleagues about Help and termas, but very poorly informed otherwise. Plus no Portuguese. His eyes lit up when I told him about prives and boates and the peanuts it costs in Rio to bust a nut.

You think every single guy in Brazil is a monger because of this forum? When you're at a cemetery, do you believe the world is dead?

But hey, if being honest works for you, who am I to tell you anything? No reason to fix something that ain't broken, LOL.

I just wish I could hear how this conversation goes. "So what are you doing in Brazil"? "Oh, I'm just here to fuck me some tutes, but hey, when can I see you again?

[Mr Enternational]

Nor was I advocating snooping around. If for what ever reason, by confession or evidence "falls in your lap", then what? Not a damn thing. Me and my boy have been fucking the same nurse in Bogota for about 3 years but she does not know that we know each other. I don't rock the boat. I ride shit out until the wheels fall off. I want to see where or how things end up.

I had a vasectomy, but whenever a chick claims to be pregnant I just play along to see how it ends. Chicks have shown me legit-appearing paperwork saying they are pregnant. Most say they lost the baby. One chick even told me she drank some abortion tea. So far only one chick has had the baby and it is weird because the dates add up perfectly and she was 25 with no kids before she had the daughter. I did end up telling her before the baby was born because she kept hounding me for money. We still fuck every couple of years and til this day she swears it is my kid and I swear that it is not.

[Sperto]

There was a guy, Macunaima, who posted here 15 years ago (has his own thread). He lived in Brazil and studied mongers. He would have loved your discussion.

IMO you're complicating everything, it's not rocket science. Some goes to Brazil with the only purpose of getting laid. Other guys go to Brazil for tourism and doesn't care if they get laid or not. My main purpose of going to Brazil is definitely not to get laid. However I do have a lot of fun with the Brazilian women. The pro's are great. They can quickly fulfill a sexual desire. Let say you wake up and feel like, today I want to f*ck a morena/white/negra/mulatta/india/small tits/big tits/horse ass/pony ass, then this can be done in short time. However, to me the pro's will never be more important than my main target, regular/non-pro girls. Easy to score, fun to conquer and gives better sex.

When I meet regular girls in Brazil, of course they understand that I had many brazilian GFs. They don't imagine they are the first Brazilian girl I pick up in 31 years in Brazil. What's important for them is that I respect them and don't cheat on them while we are together.
When I meet a piranha/papa-gringo I would never judge her for having other gringo BFs before. I just enjoy my time together with her.
Romantic dates with pro's, no way. Regular girls are for dating. I would feel like a fool if I went out on a romantic date with a GP. When I pay a GP it's because I want to buy her sexual service, not because I need an illusion of her being in love with me.

[Stinky Squid]

I don't quite understand why "don't ask, don't tell" is not the best policy. I've been going down to Brazil for work over many years. I have some male confidants who I pal around with in a few cities. I have dated women in their circles and this topic never, never comes up with the women.

In fact one time when I was heading to Rio for some "relaxation" after biz in Help Disco's glory years. A younger male in the circle called me on it in front of mixed company. A senior member quickly shut down the topic and gave him a foreboding look. My experience tells me many Brazilian men routinely take advantage of the carnal delights Brazil has to offer. It's not something that is talked about in mixed company or with one's significant other. The women might know it, but do not want to hear about it.I can tell you the women are happy if at least their husbands aren't screwing other dudes, which many do. It's crazy.

But you see this: the senior shut down the talker because what? Because everybody knows! And the talker was just one of those who probably did it discreetly with escorts in his room while playing Pharisee.

My point wasn't that you spill the beans out of nowhere. My point was to be enlightened about it. If you are making a show of your reason for visit as "interested in the culture and blah blah" that's just pathetic. Talk about other things, sure. But I tell you that the best approach is hat you do not even feel guilty or need to hide anything. Just make it a non issue.

[Stinky Squid]

Only who says anything about "arts and culture"? Have you even been anywhere in Brazil outside Copacabana?Dude! I live there for 10 years! I have several properties there, I have lived in the favelas I have lived at the beach I have lived in the interior, I am in Foz all the time, and I'm looking for a farm to start producing.


But OK, let's say you're right about "arts and culture" (you're not). Yeah sure. Bossa Nova is dead, it's funk now. Quando ela bate com a bunda no chao, desce desce desce desce.


Do you have any idea how many "single guys" travel to Brazil for work? I'm on a plane with this quiet dude from OK, who's at consulting firm for Petrobras. Heard something from his Brazilian colleagues about Help and termas, but very poorly informed otherwise. Plus no Portuguese. His eyes lit up when I told him about prives and boates and the peanuts it costs in Rio to bust a nut.His eyes lit up. There you have it. It's a dude who apparently is too limited in figuring shit out. But he definitely is interested in extracurricular activity.


You think every single guy in Brazil is a monger because of this forum? When you're at a cemetery, do you believe the world is dead?No, I believe you are a drama queen. It's getting ridiculous. I see my old self in you. You have something else going on. Why don't you step back and tell us what is your point? What are you hiding? What are you trying to talk yourself into? Spill it out brother, take it off your chest.


But hey, if being honest works for you, who am I to tell you anything? No reason to fix something that ain't broken, LOL.Being honest works for everyone. It works better because you can be at peace with yourself and work on making your dreams come true.


I just wish I could hear how this conversation goes. "So what are you doing in Brazil"? "Oh, I'm just here to fuck me some tutes, but hey, when can I see you again?So, now you're raising an actionable question. Here is what I say, 100% truth: I have always been enchanted by Brazil, I love Brazil, it's beautiful geography, beaches, so green so lush, and, oh, those Brasileiras! I walk around in the city and it's just such a joy. Even when I had my GF who became my wife and was the most beautiful girl I have ever seen, I still enjoyed walking about and seeing the beauty of Brasileiras, because it is in this context that my own girl is standing out and incentivized to stand out. Sadly though, that awful feminism is taking a hold here too, and women start cutting their hair off and stuff like that. But the good thing is that that's not taking on in the majority yet. And on and on, most likely I will be interrupted before I can even finish my second sentence. But you see, it's all true. From my heart. I don't need to hide.

[Spidy]

No, but you can assume it. My fateful girl that I used to blow up my boring life 10 years ago, she turned out to have been a semi-pro and cheated on my while we were together. There is unexplained lapses which are just telling it.

My second super angel GF did some research and was in contact with my fateful semi-pro family, the semi-pro-ness ran in the family. Mother did that too. And as usual, the brother ended up gay. ...Stinky, thank you for the thoughts, comments and feedback on some of your experiences with "non-pros" and LTRs. I found it all very illuminating from your point-a-view.

Sorry, I didn't mean for you to answer, questions 2 a) thru 2 h). They were simply presented as possible scenarios that guys would take when faced with this new evidence about their "non-pro" and they then could chime-in, if one of them hit a nerve. But you answered them all and is very much appreciated.

Please don't take any of my questions personally. If I came off looking like I was attacking you, that wasn't my intention. I don't have a "horse in the race", one way or the other, when it comes to dating and / or a LTR with a non-pro. I will date both non-pros / ex-pros dependent on the circumstances.

I am simply playing "devil's advocate", for the most part and trying to probe some of the nuances, that BMs may (or may not) want to share, w/r to dating their non-pros / LTRs had perhaps found out, if their non-pro perhaps had a past P4P history and what they did or how they felt about it, especially knowing they have "history" too.

Once again, thank you.

[Spidy]

... Let me bottom line it for you. Given what I've outlined here and previously. I'm arguing the following:

1) When mongerers are dating or in relationship with "non-pro" garotas, without hard evidence or a confession from said "non-pro" garota, is there anyway of knowing that she hasn't dipped "one pinky toe", into prostitution, in one form or other in her past life? My above reference to evidence that "falls in your lap".


Not a damn thing. Me and my boy have been fucking the same nurse in Bogota for about 3 years ...So you are saying, that if evidence "falls in your lap" about her past as a hooker, your not going to do "a damn thing" with this "non-pro" nurse, meaning you would just keep seeing her and fucking her with your boy? Did I get that right?

No judgement here. Just trying to clarify your position w/r to the question I've asked.

[Spidy]

There was a guy, Macunaima, who posted here 15 years ago (has his own thread). He lived in Brazil and studied mongers. He would have loved your discussion. ... Resourceful as always. Now that you mention it, I do remember, that dude. I think he even had his own website and wrote several white-pages (perhaps even a book by now) on the topic. And yes he did enjoy a good debate on this very subject matter.

So after a little digging (ISG search is your friend) , I did find the following, that may address some of my questions.


Sperto, again, stats in this sort of thing are mostly made up, so...

What I've found is the following: every woman I've interviewed so far left another job to become a pro because, once she got over the stigma, the economics were just too much in favor of it. Most of the women worked as low-rate tour guides, beauticians, supermarket check-out girls, hotel staff and etc. and these jobs typically pay less than 500 reais a month: what an enterprising girl can make in one night turning tricks.

So why did they start? Usually it's a combination of three things: the above economics, easy access to Copacabana (generally they were working a regular job there, first) and a friend who introduced them around and showed them the ropes. Most women that I've talked to start out saying to themselves "OK, I'll just do this once in awhile, you know to reinforce my income". But once the taboo of turning tricks was broken, it just became more logical, economically speaking, to go on doing it. ... The rest of the report is also very interesting.

BTW, most of what you describe is just regular dating, stuff. Maybe the question I'm asking is just too personal.

Anyways, it looks like I have some reading to do in Macunaima's thread.

[The Cane]

Resourceful as always. Now that you mention it, I do remember, that dude. I think he even had his own website and wrote several white-pages (perhaps even a book by now) on the topic. And yes he did enjoy a good debate on this very subject matter.Macunaima eventually got banned from this site, as he wasn't a monger and was mostly unwelcome here by the monger community. So what did he do? He showed up on another site (now defunct) under another handle where we all hated him as well LOL! His real name got outed on the other site, and turns out he was a professor at a university in Rio (I don't recall exactly which one) who was using sites like this for his research. He eventually disappeared altogether. I guess he got what he wanted and split. Thank god! What a nuisance he was to us real pro mongers.

[Sperto]

Resourceful as always. Now that you mention it, I do remember, that dude. I think he even had his own website and wrote several white-pages (perhaps even a book by now) on the topic. And yes he did enjoy a good debate on this very subject matter.Macunaima was (maybe still is) an anthropologist at UFRJ. He wrote books and tons of papers regarding sex workers and mongers. I just took a glance at one of his papers regarding Discoteca Help, "OUR LADY OF HELP:SEX, TOURISM AND TRANSNATIONAL MOVEMENTS IN COPACABANA", quite interesting.

[Stinky Squid]

I feel like I want to give you an example about non-pro vs. Pro and how difficult this can be. There may be rumors about her which everybody knows and nobody will tell you. I know of one friend of a friend who I am told has a pussy that's literally stinking like fish and has herpes and papilloma still manages to bait dudes and destroy their families for her. I know this woman as an example. And the other, my sister in law, oh boy. I don't have stories about a stinking pussy but I witnessed the BPD shit that she's been pulling off. She's been through the entire small town and still got to reel in a dude, baited into impregnating her. The levels of crazy are boundless! When you go into a relationship, you are risking not only opportunity cost (years of your life lost) you are also risking the golpe de barriga and some herpes too. A past in this business defines her personality. It isn't something you can ever build your life on, and it doesn't effing matter if she got herself through law school that way. Damaged girls can be so fucking frustrating if you're trying to make it work. There is a limit when some would literally kill themselves than to give one inch to work with you on improving things. You can read here on this forum, like in the RJ termas reports about stinking pussy. It's disgusting. It's therapeutical for the sex-craved dude to really behold that thought. But nothing is worse than being stuck with a crazy girl, especially if she pretends to be better than she actually was. Like I don't think anyone has married an (ex-) hooker and hasn't gotten screwed by she suddenly discovering her "dignity". Legs open for the paying customer, hubby is to take care of her moodiness and headaches, and she is oh so hurt by something he said once. This stuff is hard if she wasn't a hooker, but with all that baggage and the screwed up personality it's hopeless.

And there is no equality. There are lots of hopeless guys too. But I don't think mongering makes a guy hopeless, nor his predilections. It's other things.

[Mr Enternational]

So you are saying, that if evidence "falls in your lap" about her past as a hooker, your not going to do "a damn thing" with this "non-pro" nurse, meaning you would just keep seeing her and fucking her with your boy? Did I get that right?

No judgement here. Just trying to clarify your position w/r to the question I've asked.We do not fuck her together at the same time. I met and started fucking this chick. I told my main wingman about her. He said is her name so and so? I said yes. Then he told me that he has been fucking her as well. So while me and her are hanging out together she is sending my buddy messages about missing him and asking him to come see her (he tells me about it and sometimes sends me the messages). Then she keeps asking me for a relationship but I keep telling her that we will talk about it when we see each other. But she never reminds me to talk about it when we are together. Funny she always sends me tons of nekkit pics and videos though, but never sends them to my buddy. I have literally hundreds from her. At one point I told her to stop sending me that shit everyday. This has been going on like 3 years. Last time we were together was April when she gave me her anal virginity. So it fell in my lap, not that she was a hooker, but that she was fucking my buddy. Haven't said anything to her about it yet. Another funny thing is that when I met her she told me that she had met a guy from my city but they kind of fell apart. It never occurred to her that we could possibly know each other.

Side story: Me and the same wing man went to Cali, Colombia. I met another nurse chick online. I told her to bring a friend for my buddy. Why did her friend end up being another chick that I was supposed to meet up with the next day? Shame, Shame, Shame! I still laugh about that shit today and that was around 2006 or 2007. That was probably my most embarrassing moment. It is a small world on the internet.

But there was the time when I met the chick in Rio and she told me she worked in an office. We spent a couple of days together and I accompanied her to Rio Sul Mall to buy a washing machine that was on sale. She pulled out a big wad of money. I asked where she got it and she said her dad gave it to her to buy the washer. The next time that I was in Rio I did not tell her I was coming. I went up to Help at night and the first person I saw was her standing in front of the corner of the building by herself. All I could do was laugh. She kept trying to explain and asking to go to the apartment with me. I told her no and acted like I was heart broken. I had to play that role. Years ago she ended up moving to southern France. So it fell into my lap that she was presently a hooker, but who cares. I am fucking her for free with no strings attached. And she is helping with the bill when we go out sometimes.

Then there was a chick in Thailand that I was messing with a couple of years ago. She wanted me to go to the club with her and her friend one night and I told her no. She said okay, if you happen to come and see with dancing with a guy then do not say anything. I pulled out the equivalent of $30 and handed it to her. She said what is this for. I said so you can buy him a drink; then I rode off on my motorbike. I have never been the jealous type. But then too I do not make too many commitments. I just leave the relationship open.

[Xpartan]

No, I believe you are a drama queen. It's getting ridiculous. I see my old self in you. You have something else going on. Why don't you step back and tell us what is your point? What are you hiding? What are you trying to talk yourself into? Spill it out brother, take it off your chest."Hide"?

"Something else going on"?

Why? What did your old self have going on, LOL?

Are we still discussing the "merits" of telling women that you come to Brazil to fuck tutes? Or has this topic mutated into something else entirely?

Anyhoo, this drama queen is out.

[Vagabundo1]

Senor sperto,

Where is that paper posted?

It is an interesting subject. The definitive work, in my mind, is economist.com special report.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2014/08/07/a-personal-choice

Elsewhere on ISG, I have suggested a thread on "the literature of prostitution" . The first item would be Lonesome Dove, wherein there are hookers and non pros, and when they meet, the non pros like and help the hookers, who are both the women at some point of Gus McCrae, a happy and unapologetic hooker monger if ever there was one. God Bless Texas, and death to all who oppose Texas!

Street-Walkers; kerb-crawlers; phone booths plastered with pictures of breasts and buttocks: the sheer seediness of prostitution is just one reason governments have long sought to outlaw it, or corral it in licensed brothels or "tolerance zones". NIMBYs make common cause with puritans, who think that women selling sex are sinners, and do-gooders, who think they are victims. The reality is more nuanced. Some prostitutes do indeed suffer from trafficking, exploitation or violence; their abusers ought to end up in jail for their crimes. But for many, both male and female, sex work is just that: work.

This newspaper has never found it plausible that all prostitutes are victims. That fiction is becoming harder to sustain as much of the buying and selling of sex moves online. Personal websites mean prostitutes can market themselves and build their brands. Review sites bring trustworthy customer feedback to the commercial-sex trade for the first time. The shift makes it look more and more like a normal service industry.

It can also be analyzed like one. We have dissected data on prices, services and personal characteristics from one big international site that hosts 190,000 profiles of female prostitutes (see article). The results show that gentlemen really do prefer blondes, who charge 11% more than brunettes. The scrawny look beloved of fashion magazines is more marketable than flab—but less so than a healthy weight. Prostitutes themselves behave like freelancers in other labour markets. They arrange tours and take bookings online, like gigging musicians. They choose which services to offer, and whether to specialize. They temp, go part-time and fit their work around child care. There is even a graduate premium that is close to that in the wider economy.

The invisible hand-job.

Moralisers will lament the shift online because it will cause the sex trade to grow strongly. Buyers and sellers will find it easier to meet and make deals. New suppliers will enter a trade that is becoming safer and less tawdry. New customers will find their way to prostitutes, since they can more easily find exactly the services they desire and confirm their quality. Pimps and madams should shudder, too. The internet will undermine their market-making power.

But everyone else should cheer. Sex arranged online and sold from an apartment or hotel room is less bothersome for third parties than are brothels or red-light districts. Above all, the web will do more to make prostitution safer than any law has ever done. Pimps are less likely to be abusive if prostitutes have an alternative route to market. Specialist sites will enable buyers and sellers to assess risks more accurately. Apps and sites are springing up that will let them confirm each other's identities and swap verified results from sexual-health tests. Schemes such as Britain's Ugly Mugs allow prostitutes to circulate online details of clients to avoid.

Governments should seize the moment to rethink their policies. Prohibition, whether partial or total, has been a predictable dud. It has singularly failed to stamp out the sex trade. Although prostitution is illegal everywhere in America except Nevada, old figures put its value at $14 billion annually nationwide; surely an underestimate. More recent calculations in Britain, where prostitution is legal but pimping and brothels are not, suggest that including it would boost GDP figures by at least £5.3 billion ($8.9 billion). And prohibition has ugly results. Violence against prostitutes goes unpunished because victims who live on society's margins are unlikely to seek justice, or to get it. The problem of sex tourism plagues countries, like the Netherlands and Germany, where the legal part of the industry is both tightly circumscribed and highly visible.

The failure of prohibition is pushing governments across the rich world to try a new tack: criminalizing the purchase of sex instead of its sale. Sweden was first, in 1999, followed by Norway, Iceland and France; Canada is rewriting its laws along similar lines. The European Parliament wants the "Swedish model" to be adopted right across the EU. Campaigners in America are calling for the same approach.

Sex sells, and always will.

This new consensus is misguided, as a matter of both principle and practice. Banning the purchase of sex is as illiberal as banning its sale. Criminalization of clients perpetuates the idea of all prostitutes as victims forced into the trade. Some certainly are—by violent partners, people-traffickers or drug addiction. But there are already harsh laws against assault and trafficking. Addicts need treatment, not a jail sentence for their clients.

Sweden's avowed aim is to wipe out prostitution by eliminating demand. But the sex trade will always exist—and the new approach has done nothing to cut the harms associated with it. Street prostitution declined after the law was introduced but soon increased again. Prostitutes' understandable desire not to see clients arrested means they strike deals faster and do less risk assessment. Canada's planned laws would make not only the purchase of sex illegal, but its advertisement, too. That will slow down the development of review sites and identity- and health-verification apps.

The prospect of being pressed to mend their ways makes prostitutes less willing to seek care from health or social services. Men who risk arrest will not tell the police about women they fear were coerced into prostitution. When Rhode Island unintentionally decriminalized indoor prostitution between 2003 and 2009 the state saw a steep decline in reported rapes and cases of gonorrhea.

Prostitution is moving online whether governments like it or not. If they try to get in the way of the shift they will do harm. Indeed, the unrealistic goal of ending the sex trade distracts the authorities from the genuine horrors of modern-day slavery (which many activists conflate with illegal immigration for the aim of selling sex) and child prostitution (better described as money changing hands to facilitate the rape of a child). Governments should focus on deterring and punishing such crimes—and leave consenting adults who wish to buy and sell sex to do so safely and privately online.

* Cunningham, S and Shah, M. "Decriminalizing Indoor Prostitution: Implications for Sexual Violence and Public Health" (working paper, July 17th 2014). Dx. Doi. Org /10.2139/ ssrn. 2467633.


Macunaima was (maybe still is) an anthropologist at UFRJ. He wrote books and tons of papers regarding sex workers and mongers. I just took a glance at one of his papers regarding Discoteca Help, "OUR LADY OF HELP:SEX, TOURISM AND TRANSNATIONAL MOVEMENTS IN COPACABANA", quite interesting.

[Spidy]

Macunaima eventually got banned from this site, as he wasn't a monger and was mostly unwelcome here by the monger community ...I guess I'm one of those few members, that did not mind reading what the dude had to say and enjoyed his contributions.

If I remember correctly, he wasn't much of a nuisance, once he got his own thread. I thought he simply quit posting and moved on. After all, his very own Macunaima's thread, with all his posts are still intact and there for us to read and ponder. After a ISG poll, about weather or not to ban him, only about 25% of us, wanted him gone. See the Brazilian thread "Is Macunaima a Serial Antagonist?" We should adopt this approach with more BMs...kkkk.

While this is a mongering site, there is no requirement that says you have to be a mongerer to post and contribute here. There are numerous threads where the discussions are non-P4P. Take the "Opinions. American Politcs" thread for example.

There were far worse abusers of ISG policies, then he. I'm sure you may (or may not) remember "David_33" (Peru thread), whos posts were deleted / removed for good reasons as to why. I won't go into them here. And then there were really annoying BMs, like "Nibu in Brazil" and "Nibu in Peru". Thank goodness, he got his own thread and doesn't post anymore. But hey, just MHO.

[Spidy]

Not sure where this falls under in the conversations surrounding foreign travelers, but I always thought that business men/business travelers were doing sex tourism (or visiting their international "non-pro" girlfriends), long before the masses were hip to the P4P scene.

The endless parade of wives, who thought their husbands / boyfriends or significant others, were actually, "just on business", was entertainingly naive.

[WyattEarp]

"Hide"?

"Something else going on"?

Why? What did your old self have going on, LOL?

Are we still discussing the "merits" of telling women that you come to Brazil to fuck tutes? Or has this topic mutated into something else entirely?

Anyhoo, this drama queen is out.What happened to our buddy HarryDuBois from the Rio forum a month or few back? He would love this discussion. LOL.

[The Cane]

There were far worse abusers of ISG policies, then he. I'm sure you may (or may not) remember "David_33" (Peru thread), whose posts were deleted / removed for good reasons as to why. I won't go into them here. And then there were really annoying BMs, like "Nibu in Brazil" and "Nibu in Peru". Thank goodness, he got his own thread and doesn't post anymore. But hey, just MHO.I remember those guys, and know the reasons for why David's posts were removed. "Nibu Raphael" went by "Arecho Monger" on another site, where he was banned. Good riddance LOL!

[Sperto]

Senor sperto,
Where is that paper posted?
Senhor Vagabundo, I won't post his real name here, but if you google "OUR LADY OF HELP:SEX, TOURISM AND TRANSNATIONAL MOVEMENTS IN COPACABANA" and "PDF" you'll find the Help report.

[Spidy]

...Last time we were together was April when she gave me her anal virginity. So it fell in my lap, not that she was a hooker, but that she was fucking my buddy.So my take-a-away from analogy #1 (Bogota chick, who I'm assuming is "non-pro"), seems she just loves to fuck. But with all this fucking she's doing between you and your boy, she hasn't given you pause to think otherwise w/r to my question. Fair enough!


...I pulled out the equivalent of $30 and handed it to her. She said what is this for. I said so you can buy him a drink...I have never been the jealous type. But then too I do not make too many commitments. I just leave the relationship open. My take-a-away from analogy #2 (Thai chick, who I'm also assuming is a "non-pro"), if based on the situation you posted above, if she did have a past life hooking and fucking for money, that came to light, you'd be okay with it since you're not the jealous type and you would just leave this relationship open. Did I get that right?

[Xpartan]

What happened to our buddy HarryDuBois from the Rio forum a month or few back? He would love this discussion. LOL.But I doubt these musings would help him much. From what I remember he was planning his adventures on a very limited budget, which would hardly support wooing nonpros.

[Exec Talent]

Let's say you have mastered Portuguese, are spending significant time in Brazil and are ready to take the plunge into the world of non-pros. One thing of utmost importance is do not ever, if you want to survive to your next birthday, let her or worse, her friends, see you with another woman. See my comments about termas robes and love motels elsewhere. Brazilian women know their men are going to make the rounds. Always be there for special events (there are a lot of those) and never embarrass her by the outward appearance of any other women in your life. Single men without girlfriends are to be avoided. They will sell you out in a heartbeat and have nothing to lose. Never being alone with her friends, especially the attractive ones, goes without saying. If she suggests threesomes with her friends, feign a complete lack of interest. Only when she insists do you go along and then, the first time, pretend not to enjoy it. You are aware that girls are turning 18 every day. So is she. Keep your eyes facing straight ahead. Horse blinders or wraparound sunglasses are a wise investment. Also plan on having a lot of sex. In her mind, that way you will not have any leite for other women. Be advised to always go along. If you can't or won't you are telling her she no longer does it for you or you are seeing someone else. In either case, have your bags packed so you can make a quick exit. Even if it is your place. Good luck!

[Xpartan]

Let's say you have mastered Portuguese, are spending significant time in Brazil and are ready to take the plunge into the world of non-pros. One thing of utmost importance is do not ever, if you want to survive to your next birthday, let her or worse, her friends, see you with another woman. In my limited experience, the same goes for a pro if she gets it into her head that you're her boyfriend for a moment and belong to her and her alone. I already wrote about my unfortunate experience with a termas girl I stupidly brought to Buzios for a weekend.

Brasileiras: always ready to bring a telenovella to life.

[Mr Enternational]

Keep your eyes facing straight ahead. Horse blinders or wraparound sunglasses are a wise investment. Also plan on having a lot of sex. In her mind, that way you will not have any leite for other women.Or you can ask her to give you your balls out of her purse so you don't have to walk around on eggshells. If you have a real bond and friendship with your girl, you can point out chicks that you think are sexy. You don't have to walk around acting like the world around you does not exist and there are not more beautiful women on the planet.

I have been caught red handed when 2 non-pro chicks in Rio met each other without me even being there and nothing changed. Be yourself. Don't act like you are one person and turn out to be another. When you try to act an angel in the beginning then are later found out to be doing sneaky shit is when you have a problem. Never claim to be the angel in the first place.

Me and a buddy were in Tijuana recently. He didn't even want to look at chicks. He said I promised my girl so and so. His girl lives in the damn Dominican Republic (he is Domimican as well). He just got a divorce from his wife for sneaking around and here he is getting himself right back into promising another chick some shit. Some guys are just serial monogamists and bury themselves into situations they think they want to be in. Then when they fuck up they look like a heel. Stop thinking you have to promise shit or be a certain way to enjoy being with a chick or to fuck them.

[WyattEarp]

But I doubt these musings would help him much. From what I remember he was planning his adventures on a very limited budget, which would hardly support wooing nonpros.LOL. Harry loves meandering discussions where he can simultaneously ask questions and then argue with the responder. He's never been to Brazil, but I'm sure he would have lots to add to this topic.

Hmm. So he's in the Bogota thread educating the mongers there.