2002 Thai Women - Opinions & Advice [Archive] - Page 3

Cebu Local

10-26-02, 15:15

guys
just got back from Los and hate to admit it,but the 3f method seems to be the safest way to go.it is less painful that way,even a softie like me has to agree with Z given the attitude of us being seen as walking ATM machines.anyway here is how the rest of my trip went,ended up in Eden club wensday,got one girl for 1,600 plus 200 tip,90 minutes of standard oral,Fs,not into anal,got 2 shots off then back to the hotel for workshop following morning.Thursday was interesting,there was a dancing social at Zazas the disco at the Shangrila.all free since it was being hosted by Shangrila.I went with an escort agency paid 3000 b,but specified that i wanted somebody educated,able to speak good english and not from isaan,got a 19 yo thai chinese girl from southern thailand studying tourism. she was the real thing because she was able to make small talk about pricing strategy and marketing plans.she got real excited to see some thai actors and actresses at the disco,i introduced her as my interpreter and temporary secretary.we met some thai tourism vip s which seemed to impress her,since she was surprised that this farang knew these members of the thai elite.I gave her a gift certificate for an overnight stay at the novotel bangna that i won earlier.we ended up in my hotel room for no extra charge,she seemed very eager to please since she obviously saw some financial oppurtunity with me.we ended up doing 2 rounds and one more the following morning.she offerred to hang around for no more charge,i was ready for the sick water buffalo and aunt story,she did not .I ended up with her hanging around until this saturday,she went with me to the trade show and the lunches
at the dusit,etc.I invited her to singapore this coming january ,which she eagerly accepted for airfare,hotel meals and 50$ daily pocket money,but with an understanding that any sick water buffalo story and the deal was off.before you guys freak that i am destroying the market remember singapore LT is 200-250$,do the math 120 $ airfare less 50% discount for agents on a none cashable or transferable ticket plus 50$ for 5 days is 310$ versus 200$ times 5 for 1000$.It is cheaper to bring your own,i know the girl is angeling to become a mistress,but what the heck she might be worth it,she seems to enjoy meeting and going to these places.she is looking at using me to upgrade her life,i am not thinking with my small head,if she continues to behave over the next few months,i would consider it,but again it is my risk and i already forgot the name of the girl from eden,so 3 f s but keeping options open,this girl is a possibile candidate,but will have to test her first regards

Joe Zop

10-26-02, 15:19

Originally posted by Freeler
As to why I removed my posts: Only three visitors here went the way I did: Scottfree, Skinless and to a lesser degree Joe_zop.
The rest of you don't or don't bother to share experiences.
Mai pen rai...

Well, there's not a lot one can say to that, really. But I'd disagree with you that some folks don't share experineces -- WickedWilly's current posts, Tap's very detailed ones when he was in Jen-land, and many others are certainly that way. I do agree with you that things are in a bit of a lull at the moment, though, and that there has been an unusual level of overall crankiness in the past couple of months.

I will agree with you that the ex-pat take is different and incorporates a lot of feelings about Thai society as a whole, but it's still a highly useful one. I just think it tends to have a rather negative emphasis overall, forgets the positives (Z's current posts, for example, indicate he's remembering what he's got) and overlooks the fact that most on this board are going to be coming for a short time, and mostly just need directions, places to go, and best bets. For most of us coming from the west, it doesn't really matter all that much that TGs are just after our money or are out to get as much of it as they can -- it's very little money to us in the big scheme of things, and it's not as though we're after anything more noble. We just need to be pointed in a couple of basic directions, and we'll have our own experiences.

I certainly lack your degree of exploration off the beaten Thai path, and all my experiences are now out of date, given that I was last in LOS 18 months ago. There's no point in me repeating sexual conquests or contacts that old -- I'll post new things once I have them, which won't be long given in a week I'll be there. I can only be who I am, and be interested in experiencing the scenes I'm into. I would daresay that you suffer from a singular problem here -- very few posters, if anyone, have your degree of experience and comfort with the Thai scene, and no one has the overall breadth of knowledge.

But I'll go back to something I wrote before -- this sounds like forum fatigue to me. Long-time posters, particularly those who are very active, tend to get it at some point or another, and it's been true on every board or forum I've been on or moderated over the past twenty years. The nature of the beast is that the signal to noise ratio isn't always brilliant, and one needs to pay attention for the gems, which is why I lament you and skinless removing yours from the landscape.

So it goes. I do thank you very much for the wealth of information you've been bringing, will glady stand you for a drink anytime, and I guess I'll just need to quote you and skinless as above in order to have your posts stick around :)

Joe Zop

10-26-02, 18:45

Well, that's not the only reward Jobs got :) I don't have negative feelings toward Freeler or Skinless about taking their posts down or feel the need to impart any particular personality traits into the action -- it's their words and ideas, after all, and the FAQ these two were largely responsible for is a great addition to the site. I just have regret that good voices with unique knowledge and perspectives are withdrawing from the community, as that weakens it. And Wildman, I gotta disagree with you and Z about Freeler -- his posts have consistently betrayed a playful sense of humor (another reason I regret their deletion) and my strong sense is that he's had an absolute blast and that we've only heard the briefest part of it.

I do understand Freeler's point about people not going up-country, and I empathise, but I don't see how, if "There is no way anyone can do a search on the web and get that information.
Because it is not available." that taking it down from this site helps move the idea forward of talking about it. Sometimes this stuff is just about critical mass, and having the information around helps encourage folks who haven't done the kind of sanuk on a budget that is described. Let's face it, before Skinless did his "Heart of Darkness" tour he was mostly in the same areas as everyone else, so there's a kind of progression there that can be repeated. And Scotfree's reports are also relatively recent. That says to me not that no one's talking about this stuff, but that people are starting to do so. It's lonely blazing trails, but it's like posting -- lots more people lurk than post, and lots more people do the main places than go off the beaten path. Having the two of you disappear means still less likelihood of having the kind of discussion you describe.

Look, one of the reasons lots of folks love Pattaya is because it's shooting fish in a barrel. You don't really need to know squat about Thailand to manage there; it's just one big pussy mall. Fair enough; that's why lots of guys go -- it's simple, it's can't miss, it's safe. Moving off the beaten path means being less sure of what's going to happen, and it's natural that lots of newbies aren't going to want to do that. But the only way people are going to screw up their courage is by having other folks blaze the way, talk about the time they had, and let it seep in that there's more out there. There's no question that Freeler and Skinless' reports, along with my own knowledge and investigation, have made me very much rethink portions of my agenda, and have put a couple of "gotta try" places on my list. (The references of which are now gone, so I'll have no choice but to go find out myself at this point.) And to me the bottom line on having those reports disappear is that there's less likelihood that someone else will come along, see the report, and say, geez, that sounds worth trying. Maybe it'll only be "three out of thousands" but that's how things develop.

Joe Zop

10-26-02, 20:48

"You should have used your 'critical mass' analogy earlier.
That could have been a mind changer."

Never too late to change your mind and start again if it's a good idea :D That's the nature of these boards. I would have argued harder, but you were disappearing before I really knew what was happening.

"I will be around, keeping an eye out for your posts from ChiangMai and the Great Unknown.
You will not get lost, I'm sure.
And don't forget "that" stop-over in Pitsanulok."

Ah, getting lost isn't always such a bad thing, if you've got the right attitude, eh? I'll post them, and I'm not forgetting there or several other places on the big dream list. As I said before, I'll be following my whims, moods, and work-flow...

Frog

10-26-02, 23:14

hey folks, even it's not my way of spending holidays, i enjoyed reading the posts of freeler, skinless and joe_zop. Guess better travel around and experience the country than just miss to be ripped of at Bangkok or Pattaya. Them seem to be open-minded nad share their experiences .
So you three, please go on joining the board

Progman

10-27-02, 00:42

FD,

I scored with a Japanese (American) from Sacramento a couple weekends ago. She was down in San Diego going to a Nail course. My ex-wife's sister introduced her to me during their graduation party. She had never been down to Mexico so I invited her to my weekend place in Rosarita. She was a light-weight drinker so I made sure I didn't load her up on too much tequila (my thanks to my ex-sister-in-law for that Intel). We had a great time. I even talked her into taking a sleeping bag down to the beach and fucking there. Too bad she lives so far away. I could almost get serious with this girl....

cebu local,

Nice report. You sure you're ready to get serious with a Thai chick? I'm sure there are a few "good" girls out there but that percentage has got to be very damn small. Also, thanks for the confirmation on the security precautions being taken on Fields Ave. After this November trip I may need to go elsewhere until things get under control. Bottom line is unless the Philippine gov't allows the USA to get active against these terrorist groups the problem will remain.

Everyone else,

Lighten up! Let's have some fun posting about these chicks not each other.

...(prog)

Apac Boy

10-27-02, 01:35

cebu,
u sure she's thai/chinese? she might not be as dark as the other thai's, but still...

dood, i totally hear what ur saying. that's a great bargain to fly her up to singapore. and if i remember correctly, u don't even need to get a visa (I wonder why that is? singapore's so strict, why would they let all these hookers from bkk in???)

i say do it...forget about the 3f's. if she's realyl thai/chinese, she won't give u a buffalo story.

tapioca

MuffDriver

10-27-02, 05:06

Guys,

I can't believe what I'm reading here. This discussion (bickering) borders on "bitching among women". That's the last thing we need here. Progman is exactly right....we should have fun posting about the chicks and not each other. People SHOULD share their experiences here, but just because some of us choose not to venture too far off the beaten path, don't get pissy about it! We all have our reasons....some of us can only slip away for a few weeks at a time, we don't speak the language very well (or at all), or we just have a personal preference.

That being said, I wanted to share an experience I had this morning at breakfast breakfast in Pattaya. Yeah, yeah, some of you don't like this place...."up to you". But let it be up to me too, ok? Anyway, I was sitting next to this trio from the UK (though this story would probably apply to any such trio from a Western country)....two chicks and a guy. I felt so sorry for the guy, and I bet he wished he hadn't come here with these two pasty broads. The girls talked THE WHOLE TIME during breakfast....mostly to each other. The guy got probably 10% of all the attention being given at the table. These "women" wore rumpled clothes, had their hair pulled back, and didn't care enough about their appearance to even put on a little make up, though it probably wouldn't have helped that much. To describe these "women" as plain would be complimentary. By contrast, at the next table, this other guy was talking to a great looking Thai girl....she was a solid 8. Her eyes were all over him, as she (acted like she?) listened to his every word. She made him feel good about being with her, as most of the TG's do with us. ANYWAY, the whole situation was made of the stuff that has brought many of us together in pursuit of great looking women who can pleasure us.

I'm outta here today and heading back to Bangkok. I have an early flight back to the USA tomorrow. I'm one of those guys who can slip into Thailand for not more than 10 days at a time. I'm not complaining, since I've got other things going on that keep me in the Western Hemisphere. And for you guys that can stay here longer than I, good for you (not a stitch of sarcasm here!). Keep having a good time, share your experiences, and maybe the newbies like me will spread our wings a little more with each visit to Thailand.

--Muff-d

P.S. I thought those UK gals looked bad enough sitting down; you should have seen how big their arses were after they stood up to leave the restaurant....their butt cheeks were bigger than mine!

P.P.S. I'm working on my field reports after I get home. I don't know how Wicked Willy finds the time to write so much while he's here.

ChrisC30

10-27-02, 06:02

Weren't we done with the infighting?

Thought we all moved past it many posts ago.

Cebu Local

10-27-02, 07:42

tap
Thais can go visa free into Singapore up to 14 days,but it is the discretion of the immigration officer up to how many days,the average thai bargirl will get 3 days,because the singaporeans know they are there to work,going with a farang will get her the maximum 14 days and if she can pull in 200-300$ a day by staying behind after i leave,that is her bonus.I know that is why she jumped at the chance to go to Singapore,being chinese,she will charge a higher rate than thai or indonesian in singapore.thanks for your thoughts regards

Seydlitz

10-27-02, 09:58

cebu local,

your approach of bringing a TG to Singapore is interesting. I agree that it might be cheaper to bring your own, and on top of it it is so much more convenient than having to find local company.

You are well aware of the issues there are with mixing professional and recreational activities, I am sure, and I will be interested to know how things go in that regards.

One question about the escort agency: was the escort deal inclusive of sex ? Or was it that you needed a pretty thing on your side for the socials, and that sex was thrown in by her on account of your magnetic personality ?

About sick buffaloes etc., as a matter of fact I have been mongering in Thailand for more years than I care to admit, and I have never been served a sick buffalo story, or anything like that.

I wonder if that story is not just a myth that the true believers of the 3Fs mystique perpetuate to scare off the young and tender ones who might fall for a GFE ...

Cebu Local

10-27-02, 10:50

setdlitz
Actually there is a fine line between business and recreational activities,it is dangerous to mix the two,however you can guess how boring it can be without a partner at pure socials as long as she does not look like a bargirl that Z calls hhh.the 3000 was not inclusive of sex,but as a pure social escort,i had to be picky remember this was the shangrila and people like the deputy minister of tourism,tourism authority of thailand officials etc were present.so she had to be non-isaan,able to speak good english and have some education.so more or less i could pass her off as a secretary.she turned out to be a thai chinese student from hatyai studying tourism.no i do not think my personality won her over,she got nothing except the gift certificate at novotel bangna which i did not need plus a couple of lunches and dinners at the dusit,sofitel central etc.I think she spotted an oppurtunity to try and hook a relatively welloff,youngish farang.the thais love advancing their staus in their society and seeing the actors and actressess and other thai elite in the crowd i was with probably made her act like a normal TG.I suspect she is as[piring to be a mistress or a minor wife.I have a good income inthe low six figures in us dollars living in cebu and am in my mid 30 s,so i can afford,but she has to convince me first,that is why i want to take her out of her enviroment and see how she acts when all the signs are in english and everybody speaks english,but she will probably fit in singapore being chinese and all.for background my current partner who doubles as my executive assistant is an ex escort who i put through to finish her mba here in cebu,so i am a softie because of a good experience.regards

Cebu Local

10-27-02, 11:00

forgot to add a softie,but not a naive one,i got drugged and robbed and almost killed by a thai freelancer almost 10 years ago,so i think using my big head not my little one though i keep an eye out for potential gf s regards and Z is probably laughing but i would not put a higher class escort into the same category as the HHH,remember she is studying for the indusrtry i work in,I dont see too many HHH who can discuss tourism strategy or do basic accounting regards again

MuffDriver

10-27-02, 14:03

Looks like it was still a topic only 2-3 posts ago on the same day, Chris. No need to be that way, eh?

Seydlitz

10-27-02, 15:30

cebu local,

a 6-figures USD income in Cebu must make you a local Sultan. You could afford a full-scale harem, couldn't you ?

Your experience shows that TG can be very pleasant to be with even when they are not directly mercenary. Of course, they must believe that there is something in it for them, but that might not be straight and immediate cash.

My understanding is that a Farang expat in Asia can have a mia noi very easily, and for not all that much money. The issue is to pick one that has good enough a background to be more than just a bedmate, essential as that part is to the deal.

Please keep us posted.

Philo

10-27-02, 20:32

*****...........
even if you are a raw cynic ......... you are honest. say, if I am right, you live in Khorat? if so, would you kindly accept a beer (or 20) primo december ? (just another sucker ............)

Nihil humani me alienum puto .....

Cebu Local

10-28-02, 00:23

Seydlitz
exactly the minor wife has to offer something beyond being a bedmate,if the girl has potential and i presume she has brains,i will give her a small monthly allowance and use her services whenever I visit BKK or bring her to nearby countries,for example when i have to visit high cost countries like singapore or malaysia,I admit my income is ok,but not at sultan levels,it is 100k$ plus.but you are correct that in cebu,this has me in a 5 bedroom house on 1200sqm lot with a pool in a upper class subdivision which i pay 850$ a month in rent,i have 4 maids who i pay 50$ monthly and an english speaking driver at 120$.there is no way i could live like this back in canada or the us.will keep you updated.regards

Firedick

10-28-02, 21:16

Prog,

Japanese American is cheating ! Rosarito eh ?.... I have a timeshare at the Rosarito Beach Hotel. I've spent more than a few hours at Papa's and Beer ! I've only scored once there though. Too young a crowd for an old man like me. Talk about your "taco nights" !

Cebu,

Glad to hear you had a good trip. The 3 F's works, but it sounds like your best time was had when you hooked up with the quality girl. Oh, by the way, you're welcome, for the help in your absence on the Cebu board.

To all, about non participation: I will happily contribute, when I have something worthwhile to share. But until then...let's get back to what this board is about. Now can someone PLEASE recommend a soapy location ?

Wayneking,

You're right. You gotta make the first move with the Japanese girls. But I have never been "shot down" cruely, as a western girl might do. It's all giggles, while you establish if you're going to be able to communicate. In Phuket you can almost always find them in groups of 3 and upward hanging out on the beach right at the end of Bangla Rd. Diving is also a good "foot in the door". Try to dive with an operator that specializes in Japanese groups. You should meet a few.

Happy hunting !

FD

Progman

10-28-02, 22:23

FD,

Why is that cheating? Her English wasn't that great so you could say she was straight off the boat.
The RB unit is not much to look at but it’s clean and has AC. It's a double-wide in the Popotla Del Mar Trailer Park. A lady friend of mine legally owns it but I pay her a per-use fee (1/2 of what everyone else would pay) and I get 1/4 profits when she sells. The only bummer is I have to take a car to go anywhere from there. Driving a Chevy Suburban in Baja California is not the wisest things to do - ever notice how many police captains drive Chevy Suburbans? She’s thinking about selling it beginning next year. I’d consider buying her out but I may be in SEA by the end of summer and don’t want to deal with the BS of renting it out, etc…

Those who know,

Do the Chinese-Thai chicks normally command a higher price? I noticed a few really great looking girls in the Dollhouse Gogo (Walking Street). One had some great 34c tits to go with a killer body. My buddy said she commands at least 500-1000 Baht more than the other girls for LT and usually gets it.

... (prog)

Cebu Local

10-29-02, 00:26

prog
apparently thai chinese commands a higher price,it is because they have a more businesslike attitude towards customers,plus minimal chances of the sick water buffalo story,since they tend to come from towns and cities not villages in the isaan,regards

Progman

10-29-02, 02:45

cebu local,

That's an interesting point of view. I'm thinking maybe it's their looks as well. IMO I would say that 90% of the Chinese-Thai chicks I saw were head-and-shoulders above the rest of the girls. The way they walked, smiled, moved their bodies when they danced. I'd better stop there - I'm getting a chubby just thinking about them!

On an unrelated topic: My sources in Angeles City (ex-pats living there) have not seen nor heard about any barricades and personal checks happening. So far it seems the only place that mentioned this in any great detail was the AC2 Message board. Do you know of any web sites (news agencies) that may shed some light on this? I did some Google searches and yielded no information.

9 days and a wake-up!

...(prog)

Cebu Local

10-29-02, 13:56

prog
there is a plan to put up barricades at fields in AC,but the barowners are fighting this plan tooth and nail,for philippine news try philstar.com,the website of the philippine star newspaper,i will be at the dept of tourism next week in manila,will update you what i discover back to LOS

wildman
nope,i defenitely got thai chinese,she was after extra money,so there are those in the game,tested her since i know some mandarin and she was able to speak,defenitely not a chiang mai girl,regards

Progman

10-30-02, 02:24

Alright!! This thread is back on track. Since I am definitely a nugget when it comes to Thailand's geographic and demographics maybe someone(s) could layout where most of the working girls come from? I hear about Issan all the time. I've assumed this is a province or region of Thailand but I’m not entirely sure where in Thailand it is at or what big/small cities are found there. The girl I banged in Pattaya was from Ubon (sp?) but I have no idea what region. All I know is it was close to the Cambodian border south/east of Bangkok.

...(prog)

Firedick

10-30-02, 06:45

Good post Wildman.

Perhaps common knowledge amoung the vets here, and it's by no means a strickly Thai happening, but it still serves to remind me of how fucking lucky I am.

FD

Progman

10-30-02, 07:43

wildman,

Great post and, likewise, great information. Thanks

...(prog)

Cebu Local

10-30-02, 12:49

guys
i know this is not sex related,but some of the pros warned me nothing is free in thailand and thais will always try to get something,my free stay at baiyoke sky was courtesy of a thai travel agent and of course i invited him or his friends to visit me down in cebu,i just got a email from him that the entire thai delegation to the philippine travelmart this nov is visiting cebu and taking up my offer,shit now i have to get rooms for 25 people for 2 days.you really have to watch yourself,my free stay turns out to me more expensive,i could have paid at the oriental and still be ahead,anyway i feel stupid for falling for that free stay,just like the free shows in patpong that hit you with500 baht beers,be careful

Joe Zop

10-30-02, 17:03

Cabu -- sounds to me as if this is an attempt to push the limits of an invitation/obligation to see if you can get away with it. I'd bet you could throw out some objections/limitations without any serious repercussions, especially since it's highly doubtful that the travel agent actually had to pay anything to get you comped.

Firedick

10-30-02, 18:21

Cebu,

I gotta agree with Joe. Seems like you could at least say "whoa" to the number of visitors.

Where are all you regulars ? You guys burn'n out ? I'm just hoping you're too busy with pleasant distractions.

FD

Joe Zop

10-30-02, 18:44

FD -- I'm mostly packing, and scrambling to get things done, as I leave for LOS in two days for my longest stint there yet.

Chikan

10-30-02, 19:20

Hey joe_zop,
Looking forward to your trip reports esp. around the ChiangMai area (long term stay..etc..etc.) Have fun and play safe!

Baby Huey

10-30-02, 20:03

Quick question for everybody, it is the season for alot of us to be making a trip to Fanasty Land. I am going to be there the 11-20 December, Firedick is also going there in December, is any of the other regulars or new people to the board going to be there in December? We all could get together for some Beer, some bull shit and fun for a few hours. Any taker??? E-mail me (jimhart69@hotmail.com) or post a answer on the board. Need dates when people are going to be there. We can pick a date and place.

Progman

10-30-02, 21:45

Jim,

I'll be in LoS December 25th through January 12th.

...(prog)

AGL

10-30-02, 22:57

jimhart69 - unfortunatly my planned dec. thailand trip is falling apart this week. otherwise i would have enjoyed the opportunity to connect with ya'll.

i am now looking at jan/feb so if that is in anyones timeline let me know.

-agl

November

10-30-02, 23:38

Speaking of Dec., anyone got any leads on good airfares from the east coast? Im in D.C. and the rates seem to be running at about $950. I'll try priceline and see what happens.

Progman

10-30-02, 23:48

NOVEMBER,

I did a quick search on Travelocity.com and got prices starting at $656 and going up to $950 from either DCA or IAD to BKK. The trick is to always begin your search by indicating your dates are flexible. After getting down to the month(s) you want to travel you then begin selecting the specific dates. I didn't do specific dates but it's possible the dates you want may be available. It's just going to be tough if those dates fall just before or after Christmas/New Years

...(prog)

Duniawala

10-31-02, 16:13

Another way to get cheap tickets is to try the consolidators or ethnic travel agents. Pick up a thai newspaper (ask at thai restaurants) and look for travel agents. Also, try Indian travel agents. You can find them in weeklies like India Abroad. You can find them at Indian grocery stores/restaurants. Always shop around till u get the best rates.

Most Americans pay the list rates to the airline's delight and travelocity/orbit make good money.

Keep in mind that December-Jan and June-August is high season. So expect to pay $100-$150 more than in low season.

Good luck

Baby Huey

10-31-02, 17:46

I find the cheapest way to get ticket is like duniawala is saying. If you live in any major city, there are sections of town that are Thai, Korean, Chinesse, etc. In these sections of town are travel agents that work with consolidators that buy blocks of ticket to different cities in the world. They buy large blocks of tickets on flights at a cheaper rate and pass the savings thru to the customer. You can have your local travel agent find the consolidators too, but you will pay more. The tickets around the holidays go fast, and cost a few dollars more because of demand. But most of the time you can get 20% to 40% saving over posted costs. You can also find some of these places on the internet also. Also look in the yellow pages, or the yellow pages on the internet for agents in cities like Chicago, L.A., New York, Washington, etc.

Seydlitz

11-01-02, 12:12

dude512:

I work on the assumption that what you wrote is actually what happened to you, at least from your perspective, and that you are not making this up to get attention from this board.

Under that assumption, I should be giving you all the abuse you know you deserve. You are about to buy yourself a Patpong BG and bring her to the US, with the prospect of US citizenship and an option on half your estate.

What I find amazing in your post is the cynicism that you have in your approach. And don't get me wrong, this is a redeeming feature in my book, and the reason why I bother to reply to your post. I am not trying to rescue a complete fool who got in love with a bar girl, only trying to advise a guy who is considering his options on how best to secure for his private use a complete "Thai pillow" package.

Since you want some advice, here it comes: do not get married, of course. The visa rules are there to protect you and the rest of the US citizen. Besides, TG are better enjoyed in their natural surroundings. Travel there as much as you can, spend all your time with that girl, or experience with others, since you do not seem very much committed to that one in particular.

You are right in considering that "there is no way I'd be banging a chick this hot back home. Certainly not one this young. " That is what makes Thailand so addictive to most of us. But believe it or not, that hot Thai chick is not going to remain that way for long if you somehow import her to the US, even if she is naive and inexperienced and not mercenary. You will only make her and yourself miserable, and you will have created a very unpleasant mess to sort out.

You have been warned.

Baby Huey

11-01-02, 14:59

Lets setup the get together for beers and bullshit at the Living Room on December 13, Friday Night at 7:00 p.m.. Any takes come and join us.

Baby Huey

11-01-02, 15:38

dude512,

You are about to do one of the biggest mistakes you can make, in a relationship with a Thai or any other Asian Girl. You are going to marry her for her looks and the sex. Marriage is not just in the Bedroom. There is more then sex to a marriage, it is a relationship.

In your posting, are you talking about her as a future wife, a person, etc., NO! You talk about her as a great piece of ass. Are you ready to bring a girl back to the U.S., which has not finished school, probably at best, poor spoken, English and can not read English great? She will be going stir crazy after 2 to 3 months, when she is only see you and not being able to see and talk to other friend daily.

Will she ever be able to get a normal job in the U.S.? Not for the money, just to get out of the house to do something. Allot of Asian Girls that marry westerns and go to there husband home Countries, end up living in there house like they are a jail. Scare to go out without there husband. So when you are at work, the house is like a jail. Are you ready to end your social life? Because when you are not at work, you will have to be with her, because she will not have any friends to be with.

For her working in the club for a short time, maybe, but the odds are not good! Maybe working in Patpong for a short time, but she has probably worked in a Thai club before that. She is 21. What has she been doing since school??? Allot of the girls that work in the clubs, quit school before or shortly after they start High School. Has she been married to a Thai before? Have you accounted for the time in between School and today?

Are you being played as a sucker? Probably! The question of the day for you is ARE YOU IN LUST or ARE YOU IN LOVE???

Progman

11-01-02, 17:58

dude512,

If after all these negative responses you decide you still want to go through with this suicidal mission I would suggest you invest a little money and hire an investigator to research this girl's past. There are plenty of them in Bangkok that specialize in this area. The trick is to find a reputable one. I believe Stickman has recommended some in the past. Do not feel like you're betraying her - it's just a smart thing to do. Actually the smartest thing to do is to NOT marry the girl. GOOD LUCK!

...(prog)

AGL

11-01-02, 20:04

dude512 -

if you have been the noble gentleman you paint yourself to be here i feel for you man. but you really should heed the excellent advice that has followed in the wake of your searching for the right thing to do. of course if you truly do believe you are in love with her it will be extremely difficult but you need to try and realize it is indeed more than likely lust and not love.

we've all been there or at least close to there at one time or another. and for those who have not, 90% will undoubtedly have this spell cast upon them sooner or later. and that's a good thing really because it means there are still many nice guys out there who have fragile hearts and are not just simply pigs.

if you can't see it this way then at least do yourself AND her the favor of trying to set yourself up in thailand first. the guys are 100% correct about the u.s. being a very difficult place for a young TG to feel comfortable or at home. for all its riches, this country has allot to hate about it. in fact i would suggest that part of your feelings toward this girl are also about the very country she is in. it all contributes to the fantasy. remove one from the other and it changes everything.

what always interests me is why so many guys who fall for asian girls feel this need to immediately uproot them from their homeland and family and bring them back to the u.s. i believe that of all the culturally diverse marriages existing in the u.s. (with first generation women), the ones that work the best and where the women is the happiest, are those where the man has at least lived in and shared her country, her culture, her family and her values before being together in the states.

if you are certain you are in love try it this way. get a legitimate job and move to thailand as an ex-pat. if you succeed in this endeavor and you live together in bkk i think you will have the awakening you need. don't uproot the poor girl to an entirely new country and culture without being certain that the two of you are meant to be. experience more of where she comes from first. this will also help you to know more about who she really is as a person.

i do want to say here that your attitude of "at the very least having a year or so of good sex" really stinks. that's b.s. dude and you know it. don't take advantage of this girl like that whatever her intentions are toward you. she could be legitimately young, naive and in love with you (or at the idea of being in love with having a nice stable farang) or she certainly could be yanking you. which really just means she is a business woman. like most of the bg tg's are.

and that's not a bad thing. that is what so many of us go there in search of. in fact i get upset when i read such angry posts from guys who feel they have been burned by a tg in one way or another. and end up with this incredibly cynical idea of the girls as a whole. sure there are varying degree's to which these girls can sting but hey that's life in the big city. to those who cast these girls aside as nothing more that meat and have a "get them before they get you" attitude is pretty damn ignorant in my opinion.

seydlitz, wildman, progman, freeler and jimhart69 all have sound excellent advice from different perspectives. but i have to say that i think you should listen carefully to wildman. his words are true enough.

now if you do decide that your brothers have left you wiser in your years, don't go off and become one of those fat bellied, bad attitude type of guys who goes around screwing everything in his path with loathe and contempt. don't go around disrespecting girls because your little farang heart didn't get what it wanted.

be the man and realize your little head had a romance for a while but understand that it is your bigger head that must make the firm decisions. plain and simple, we are lucky this lifestyle still exists and that men have this outlet for fun. we don't necassarily have to go around buying gifts and putting the girls on a pedestal but a little respect for their humanity will go along way with all of us.... and more importantly with them.

good luck and do the right thing.
-agl

Baby Huey

11-01-02, 21:48

dude512

Everybody is giving good responses to you problem. The number one thing I will tell you to do, that I did not tell you in my earlier input is. Is to go for a longest test drive you can do, the better off you will be. What I mean by test drive, is the longer you can live together the better you know the girl. Take a test drive before you get married. I am not talk about 2 weeks here and two week there, 2 weeks at a time is a fantasy life a little. Live together for 5 to 6 months, and all of the secrets will start coming out. You will know each other better and the marriage may last.

I have been married to two Asia girl, either of them were Thai, and either worked in clubs. Both are from upper middle class families. I can tell you there are many things you have to learn as a western to be marrying to an Asia girl and have a good marriage. You need to know there culture, believes (church etc), Asian family life, that is way different than the American way of live, etc. I live in Asia and my first wife and I dated for 4 months, just about daily and lived together for an additional 5 months before we got married in her country. With in months of the marriage starting it started to go sour. We work on it and work on it, and after 3 years of hell, we end it. It was not enjoyable for either of us, and we lived in her country which I love it there and had a job there. I stay there 6 plus after the marriage. I did the same you are doing, she looks great, the sex is great, and the marriage will be great. The stop sign was between the sex and marriage, I run thru the stop sign without looking. This was a mistake!

My second marriage, we dated again for 5 to 6 months, but the difference was we live together for just under 3 years, before the word marriage came into play. By this time we knew each other inside and outside. We were married for just about 2 years before we return to the U.S. to live. The first year in the U.S., she had some culture shock, and problems adjusting to the American way of life. But because we knew each other thru and thru, we were able to get thru everything. And one big thing for us, money was not a problem. We are still ever happily married now for 11 plus years.

There is no way a marriage as more than a 10 to 15 % chase of lasting, after 3 to 4 two week visit and sex and more sex. Not really know knowing each others dreams wants and needs in life. Having you both to deal with getting to know each other, her dealing with the culture shock and many other things that will come up. One thing to remember also, no matter how much you talk and tell the Girl, she believe American is just like the Hollywood American.

Culture shock is a big one for the girls to deal with, and you will have to deal with it, with her. She will go thru depression, lone less, her world will turn around you and your life will turn around her. You will have to be with her when you are not at work, because the house will be like a jail too her. She will be on the border line of crazy, some days and if you do not know her good and her habits, you may not be any help. Your social life as you know it today will be gone. There are books and other things you can read about marriage to Asian Girls. You better do a lot of research before you make the move.
If you live in a large city, there are groups of Asian that get together for the social things. Find a Thai group, they can help her adjust to the American way of life, they have been down this road. You can find out about these group at restaurants, Asian Stores, Churches, etc. If you live in a small town, bottom line move to a City fast if you get married.

The other thing to marriage is the word trust, and it does not sound like you trust her now, how will you trust her after the marriage. She works in a club, what is her job? Can you live with this the rest of your life???

The money thing, giving money to the family before the marriage, this is not buying her from family; this is showing respect to her family for raising her and general respect to the family. Some of this money will be spent on the marriage. But at the end of the day it is respect to the family. You can work on the amount a little, but remember, if the marriage has any future, you want the family to respect you too! When you marry an Asian girl, you are also marring her family. Asian culture is centered on the family unit, not like in the west, where each person is an indivual. You will be wanted to help support the family emotional and physical. And if her family is lower class, she will be except to send money home to help.

The bottom line, this is not like marring the girl from around the corner, this is marring a girl from the other side of the world. And you better go into it smart. Otherwise it will be every, every painful! Think about it, is it Love or Lust!

Gladiator

11-01-02, 23:44

Originally posted by dude512

So am I the world biggest sucker? I'm ready for the abuse. I appreciate any advice.

Thanks

Well, not yet, but if you end up taking that pussy to the US you'll become a serious candidate to the title.

To start with, the chance of a chick getting fucked by only 3 blokes in 2 months in Patong is remote, if you take into account that lying is second nature to working TG's the chance is even more remote.

In any case, it doesn't matter at all how many farangs have 3F'ed her before you met her, the point is that she's a working TG, and as such the biggest reward in her profession is finding a sucker who'll get her out of the hole. On this occasion you're the 'lucky' one.

As everyone has advised you before me, and as everyone will advise you after me, taking the pussy to the States would be a great mistake. Eventually you're very likely to suffer emotionally and economically. If you're looking for a real relationship you'd better forget about pros, who are also professional liers, and if you're looking just to get laid at good rates regularly with young chicks it'd be a cheaper option to travel to sexual paradises close to te US -Central & South America or the Caribbean- rather than importing a pussy from Thailand. Think it over.

As I said, you're not yet the world's biggest sucker, it's down to you to win such an honorific title.

Apac Boy

11-01-02, 23:45

maybe u should post a pic and see if any of us recognizes her. i'll get my album out so i can see if i know her.

i'm serious about this...there was this guy a while ago that said the same thing about this girl he met in bkk, so i started talking to him and he emailed me da pic...u know what?? i knew that girl (although i never did take her st or lt) cause i hung out with her a lot. so i gave the guy as much info as possible so he can decide if he really wanted to settle down with her.

tapioca1688@hotmail.com

tapioca

Seydlitz

11-02-02, 00:06

dude512:

On your views on Thai society and values, with all due respect, you do not know what you are talking about. You have no idea of what those people believe, what their values are, what they see in you, etc.

One typical mistake you seem to make is to assume that they are binary in their attitudes: does she love me, or is she after the rich Farang sucker ? Why cannot it be both ?

In fact, I would venture that she enjoys being with you, and that she is thrilled by the prospect of going to the US with you. At the same time she cannot propely evaluate what she would be in for.

A lower class Thai girl can very well understand that a man would want her as a mia noi (a concubine if you want), and that is a status that she would like to achieve (although being the girlfriend of a Farang does not quite score the same). She can in no way adjust to being an imported bedmate/mate/girlfriend in a different world.

The world is not a shopping mall in which we can buy female company. As someone said in this very forum, Thailand might well be a Disneyland for adults, but even if I enjoy going to Disneyland, I still believe that bringing Goofy home would be a big mistake...

Now enough of all that negativity. Since there is very little chance that whatever we can say will change what you will do (either way), I wish you have a good time with your chosen one. Please be kind enough to keep us posted. I for one would love to be proven wrong.

AGL

11-02-02, 00:25

dude512 -

the country share thing sounds like a good plan. in fact i am jealous of your ability to do that with those kinds of time frames...! hec even if things don't work out for you and your friend that's a good enough plan to continue with in itself...!

o.k. so here is another two cents... you said you have only been to LOS 3 times. what i want to tell you is that if you continued to go you would soon learn that this situation you are now in, actually plays out on a very regular basis with allot of men there. i don't claim to be near the veteran of LOS specifically that many of these posters legitimately are but i have had several friends who have lived there, worked there, and who have experienced thai women. trust me, without exception it is a challenge.

but you are correct that, what is the alternative here in america. white whale bitches who think they are men, errrr i mean as good as men. i understand that perspective completely. i gave up white women easily 12 + years ago. even before i lived in asia and learned the beauty, femininity and grace of asian women.

but just as american women are different than thai, you should probably know that asian women are also different from each other as well. ie; korean vs. japanese (different), japanese vs. taiwanese (very different), chinese vs. singaporean (different) thai vs. ...... and the list goes on.

what i am trying to say here is that, don't just say your "asian" gal is so different than american women and therefore i love her, because i think you would be surprised how much different you would find say a japanese girl from your thai girl for example. i am going to stop now on this point because i don't want to get into slamming one over the other or into too many generalizations.

no one will want to deny you your soul mate but i think we all fear you may be jumping in with two feet and you might still be a bit naive yourself.

as for the dowry thing, jimhart69's latest post was right on the money (no pun intended here). it's not about buying her, it's about respect for her and respect for her family. there could be honest or dishonest reasons on her part for not bringing it up sooner. perhaps she expected you knew it already. i mean it really is a very well known fact that a dowry is part of the deal. or perhaps she was embarresed or she just didn't know how to bring it up.

which leads me to another thing i wanted to mention and then realised in your lates post you talked about it. and that is the language barrier. i have not met too many women in thailand who know more than about 200 to 300 words. sure i pretty much stick to the "entertainment" scene as that is why i am there, but on the whole i didn't expect until you said something that your gal spoke that many words.

so communication is a huge factor. you really need to be able to converse with her. the cultural differences are HUGE enough without there being a language barrier.

dude i am sure your gal loves you. but does she really love YOU. she honestly does not know you. nor you her for that matter. sure i am positive she very much loves the idea of being with only you when as she looks around she is all too reminded of what her life holds in store if she doesn't nest in with someone as soon as possible. absolutely she will take you or just about anybody if it means a more exciting life than the bg scene and having to be with many different and ugly men. come on that's a no brainer.

but can you truly give her what she needs in the long hall. and are you sure that after you bring here to the u.s. she won't take off with an even more attractive, more financially secure guy that suddenly takes a fancy to her. and trust me, if she is hot, you will have your challenges in this area. guys will make every attempt to get her.

o.k. that's enough of my going on about it. i have the feeling you are the hopelessly romantic type. i am sure you will do what you want to do in the name of love...! nothing wrong with that man but you did ask for opinions and i think you got allot of very sound advice from allot of very experienced guys. i see this is only your 2nd post. if you have been visiting this site and reading for a long time you will have observed that some of these guys are fairly intelligent and know of what they speak.

in any event it shows allot of comitment on your part already just to look into all this as you are. and it was very cool of you to go up country to visit the folks.

take caution, but most of all, if you do choose the hard road, be happy and treat her well as i am sure you will. oh and one more thing. if you do bring here back to the u.s. it would probably serve you both well to leave out how you met. honestly some things are better left unknown because i do unfortunatly think it would be an ink spot in some circles.

-agl

Baby Huey

11-02-02, 00:25

dude512,

It sounds like your mind is made up. Just remember one thing, your mind better be very wide open, and be ready to deal with many problems that a normal marrage does not have!

One positive thing going for you. You have met the family. This helps a little, knowing that she maybe telling the truth. Usual the girls are open and truthful when you have meeted the family. Nana thing is probably true. I know a few girls that have work in Nana for a year plus and did not know about Patpong. So, I could beleive that.

I would try to spend as much time as possible with her Thailand to get to know her. Also the Visa will not happen over night, most of the time they take 6 months.

So good luck! If you want, you could join us that are get together at the Living Room on the 13th of December for some talk and beer.

AGL

11-02-02, 00:39

Gladiator - excellent advice....!

Seydlitz - too funny man.... :-) bringing goofy home.....! i'm gonna steal that one if you don't mind.

-agl

Cebu Local

11-02-02, 02:02

dude 512
as one guy having an ex escort as a partner,one tip invest in educating her and exposing her to other cultures then thai,likewise spend time in thailand outside the ghettoes for tourist,seriously.english classes are cheaper in LOS then in the US,bring her to nearby countries like Singapore,it is like 100$ for a air hotel package from BKK to SIN,the country is first world,all the signs are in english and everybody speaks english,that way you can expose her to subways,multiplex theateres,clean orderly streets ,etc.Likewise why not try renting a place in a small town in the Isaan for 2 weeks or so,i amsure that would help you get a better perspective on where she is from,seriously i consider living in a philippine village for a month years ago the secret to understanding philippine rural people.To you other guys he is decided so lets wish him the best and try to give him tips.

Back to the topic,years ago i was considering a relationship with aTG and i discovered during our long holiday in Malaysia that she would go crazy leaving Thailand,she found neatness and order in Singapore suffocating and she despised western foods for more then a few days,this all came out onlt when she was out of thailand.I ended up with a filipina who I really invested in educating,she speaks cebuano,filipino,excellent english and is now studying japanese.I put her through school,college then graduate school for her mba.my point when i think of the working college student who worked as an escort years ago and the the neatly dressed corporate woman who is meeting all these top level people,I realize with education anything is possibile

If his TG can learn to speak decent english and get at the the equivalent of a high school diploma through adult education classes,she can then go to community college or find work at a Wal-mart at least.but it is a lot of effort,money and financial and emotional investment,are you in love or lust??best of luck

Duniawala

11-02-02, 08:45

dude512

My 2 cents worth for whatever its worth. I have been on both sides. I am an asian who was married to a southern girl who had never travelled on an airplane till we got married in Arkansas and moved to california. That was in the early 80's. I was the first one in my family to have a love marriage as opposed to an arranged marriage.

What most of the people (wildman, jimhart69, seydlitz, agl etc.) have said is quite true from a western perspective. From the other side, an asian woman who is not westernised is very family oriented. In my community, I see women who have no concept of the western world and limited ability to speak English have over the years have adapted and are doing quite well. The more adventurous ones have gone out and started working while the traditional ones are content to sit at home and take care of the family. The family is the first and foremost.

My marriage ended after 16 years because I (as a typical asian) never understood the requirements of saying I LOVE YOU 4 times a day. If I didn't love her why would I be staying with her? my mistake. This is something an asian woman understands and works at keep the family happy, sometimes at a great sacrifice.

I would say go for it. If it doesn't work out so be it. You won't be any worse off than marrying the western woman. and the odds are in your favor. However, you do have to love her and nurture her growth, intellectually and spiritually and socially if you want have a long lasting relationship.

On the subject of dowry, the concept goes as this. The dowry is a give back to the family (parents) the cost of taking the girl away from her home. They raised her and would have been a wage earner if you did not take her away. It is a compensation.

As far as how many guys she has been with, does it matter or did she ask you how many girls you have been with. Forget this issue. Just have her checked medically. Funny, but how many guys did the white chicks fuck before they marry?

Good luck to you and as long as you make all decisions with your head and not with your dick, you will be fine.

Baby Huey

11-02-02, 17:55

dude512,

To add one more thing to look at, what does your family think about you marrying a Thai Girl? This is very important also, because when you return to the U.S. she will be looking and needing support from your family. Again in Asian Culture, family is the center focus of life. In her mind, she will not be a daughter-in-law in your family as in American Culture, she will be like a true daughter as in Thai culture, just like any sister that you would have. Have you prepare your family for this? Are they ready to bring her in? They also needed to understand Asian Culture to some point. A big question will your family and friends accept her? Will she accept them?

Other thing to do is like cebu local did. Take her to another country for a few weeks. Neutral ground, that you are both not from. Get her a passport, go to, Guam, Saipan, Hong Kong and see how she acts, in a country that she has to speak English to get by and does not friend and family to help. Guam and Saipan are good because they are close to Asia, but are U.S. territories, they are a little like the U.S., and you do not need a Visa to go there. You can get tickets in Bangkok a some what a good price for round trip ticket. I did this a lot with my wife before we got married, but I live in Asia and did a lot of traveling in Asia for Business so it was easy for me. By doing this, this help her and me prepared to move to the U.S., what it was like to live outside her country, no friends and family, speaking English to do anything, etc...

I can tell you there are a lot of good things about being married to an Asian girl, but there is a lot of trying time that you do not have when you are married to a girl from your home country. Remember looks are not everything! There is the relationship, and in a lot of ways the relationship is the most important thing to the marriage.

I have done it twice, the first one was hell and the second one has been great! Just make sure you are ready to do a lot of work on the relationship everyday of your life. Multiple cultural marriages are a work, not just for a few years, the rest of your life. A must, and a BIG MUST, you both must be an open book, and open minded to each other needs and cultures. How much do you know about being a Buddhist, because odds are that she is Buddhist and if she is not, the Thai culture is base on the Buddhist way of life? Start studying.

Traveling to Thailand for short or long periods is some what going to Disney world for Western. And I am not just talking about the sex in Thailand. Life in Thailand is like a fantasy world to a western. Our money goes 4 to 5 farther, you end up some what living like a King for short periods, and life is great in Thailand! But as with every dream, the fantasy has to end sooner or later. Are you ready to bring something from your fantasy home, and things will not be the same as it was in your fantasy. It will turn into a lot of work to keep things somewhat going as good as it was in your fantasy. When you are with her in Thailand, life is a big party, you are together having fun and doing fun stuff. But once you return to the U.S., the party is over in many ways, you have to go to work, etc. and some of the fun will be gone. Is she ready to live in the real world, where you work and there is not 24/7 fun in life. You have brought fun to in life in Thailand, but life will not be like your time in Thailand, back in the U.S. Has she thought of this???

I for one and many other people would love to stay in Thailand and never return from Disney World, as with kids at Disney World in Florida, we all sooner or later you have to return to the real world, and the fantasy is over!

The bottom line, a multiple cultural marriages are work, and I mean a lot of work! If you are willing to work at it and she is also, it can be great. If you are willing to do this and she is also willing, it will be great! But if both of you are not willing to do this for the rest of your life, it will be hell! I would do it again, but we are both working on the relationship still everyday.

Like duniawala said "My marriage ended after 16 years because I (as a typical asian) never understood the requirements of saying I LOVE YOU 4 times a day. If I didn't love her why would I be staying with her? my mistake. This is something an asian woman understands and works at keep the family happy, sometimes at a great sacrifice. " He was still working on the relationship and knowing the culture after 16 years. Good Luck! I hope it works for you!

Progman

11-02-02, 18:45

dude512,

If you have the financial means maybe you should think about living in Thailand for a few months. My buddy, who lives in Pattaya, practically fell in love with the first girl he met down there. Instead of shipping her back to the USA with him he decided to live in Pattaya for awhile. That was 2 years ago and he is still with the same girl. He probably won't marry her because in the Thai culture they are considered married in many respects. He refers to her as his wife. Again, good luck - remember to always use the head above your shoulders and not the one between your legs when it comes to making these big life decisions.

All,

I hate to be sadistic but I was sort of hoping the Z-man would chime in. I’m sure it would have been entertaining, to say the least, reading what his take would have been!

...(prog)

Lalake

11-02-02, 23:35

JimHart69:
you have passed on some good info regarding bringing women back to the US. But, you mentioned about Guam, and (Thai?) women not needing a Visa to go there? That is good news to me if true.
Please provide more info if you have actually done this. My experience has been that a US Territory is the same as the mainland. I go to Guam often. But, I am open to the possibility that I could bring women to Guam.
thanks for the info.
cheers,
lalake

Cebu Local

11-03-02, 00:49

lalake
correction,guam requires visas for thais,it is just easier to get a visa valid only for guam then to the rest of the usa,part of the stuff i study being in the travel industry regards

Firedick

11-03-02, 02:53

Dude 512,

I'm late getting on here, to the point of only scanning most of the responses that you got.

Take it from someone who has done it (me)... at least.

Yes, she is lying to you. Do you really think you just happened along at the right time ?

If you really must get it out of your system, the fiance' visa is the only way to go. You will be tired of her or she of you, in 90 days,and all you have to do is not act, and she has to go. No "prenup" in the world will protect you enough to marry her. DO NOT FUCK'N DO IT !!!

Jimhart69's comment that I will be there in Dec is right. Lets get together for a beer or 20 and make drunken farang fools of ourselves !!!! Any takers ?

Prog,

It seems like Z left with a few of the regs. Lets just hope they're to busy fool'n around to write.

FD

PS: Dude 512. Where do you live ? I've got this sweet 29 yo Thai girlfriend here in L.A. that I'm trying to get rid of. Would you like an intro ?

Joe Zop

11-03-02, 06:55

Wow -- what a thread. You all have been typing your fingers off while I was on the plane --- arrived in LOS late last night/early this morning. (And for what it's worth, Z noted that he was also flying back home on November 1st, so I'd expect a broadside from him any time now.)

Very little to add, from my perspective, other than to say that dude512, your admission that you know very little about Thai culture is really a key one. Overcoming that barrier is not like marrying someone from Europe or even South America, where the core values are mostly the same even if there are differences. Here, everything is different, and even those who know the culture still have trouble making things work. The fact, for example, that you really didn't know the significance of the dowry means that already the family is going to be looking at you in a certain way, and as those kinds of misunderstandings accumulate they can seriously damage your relationship. The odds are radically against you in the best case scenario, but they're close to impossible unless you intend to invest the same amount of time and energy into understanding her culture as she's going to have to do with yours. I've not heard, for example, you say anything about learning Thai or really getting a sense of her village or family history, etc., all of which are ways of better understanding where she's coming from.

The leat you can do, if you're bound and determined to embark on what you pretty well know is a foolish course of action, is try to lower the odds a bit, which is I think the core message (other than the more important "Stop, you fool!") most posters have been trying to convey.

TonydaSnake

11-03-02, 10:46

It's 4am in Washington D.C. and I'm tossing and turnin' and can't sleep. Is this the addiction? I just got caught up on all the post r.e. Dude 512 and what the hell, I'll add my 2 bhat.

It seems to me the only innocent, working or not, Thai girls are really ackward, wringing their hands alot and having trouble with eye contact. If there is something compelling about them other than making you feel ackward yourself, they are probably not that innocent. They are, rather, working their charms.

My experience with this was with a woman I met at Beergarden drinking red wine and sitting next to two Aussies. The Aussies did nothing but talk trash about her and I was under the impression they knew her well. Still, she impressed me in keeping her composure and humor even when they said downright mean things about her. Finally, she asked to leave with me but I told her she had been drinking too much and it wasn't my style to take out sloshed BGs. She said no money just wanted to rest a bit at my hotel. OK, we went she dozed off, her phone rang about 2am, and she said she had to leave to see someone. OK, goodbye, nice knowing ya! But she asked if she could come back later and I said call me (thinking she wouldn't). She called around 4am but I told her no thanks just want to sleep. I next saw her a week later playing pool in bar on Soi 7 and she saw me walk by too and came running out. We played a couple games of pool, I learned more about her and she told me she didn't know those Aussies but that they were pissed because she didn't want to go with them both (?). She again asked for the sale with me (sex)but I told her no again because she was drinking too much and I just didn't trust her. She invited me to her place for thai food but I declined. But we did catch a movie at MBK center and had a great time. I just loved being in her presence. The truth, for my part was that I liked her a great deal and I was wary of being sucked in...I told her that if she called me the next day sober than we would hang out. She calls, comes over and we have a great day, go to her place for thai, and I meet her non working roomate, and working friend from another apt in same building. We all eat together, and we agree to go to HR cafe and disco minus her roomate. Have a great time and end up in large disco near HR cafe where her friend meets customer, and Venus tell me how they work this place for 3000-4000bhat customers. So she wants to go to hotel with me and I ask myself why me since she tells me money not important, she just wants to know me. Anybody ever hear that line? OK, she's reeling me in...but we have great night, the greatest sex since she is so into it and loves to recieve oral as well. The next day we spend together, go to IMax theater which I highly recommend if you want fun event to take Thai girl you like to. Also, bowling ally, thai noodle retaurant, regular cinemas, everything in this mall. What a great day together, and I'm glad I'm leaving the next morning since I'm liking her too much! I've only given her 1000bhat so far, but I realize that I'm paying every other bill happily! She has me eating out of her palms. She tells me a married German man visits her twice a year and sends her 30,000bhat per month. Maybe a lie, though I don't see the strategy in it. In truth, she is the consummate pro, someone you just want to be with and be seen with. She can carry the conversation (unlike most thai girls) and make you laugh. I can believe some dude is sending her cash. This is what these girls can do to you. They are a potent force to be reckoned with. I'd be interested to know if any of you guys know her. She stands out because she drinks red wine alot, carries more weight than most thai ladies, and calls herself venus and "aenn." She is usually at the pool bar on same side of street as beergarden. She also told me she wants to get pregnant by a farang, around 27 years old, any takers? Please, GOD let me sleep now!

Baby Huey

11-03-02, 14:37

Cebu local,

It has been 10 years since I have been to Guam with a Girl, and she was Korean. It sounds like Guam has did the same thing that Hawaii has been doing for a Visa. Usual for Hawaii, you can have a Tourist Visa in about a Week.

Firedick,

Z is still in the real Disney World, hanging out with Minnie Mouse. Two weeks ago, he said he is returning to LOS this week. I am sure we will all be hearing from him soon. Also see you in Thailand, for the beer or 20!!!

Baby Huey

11-03-02, 14:49

Z is back!!! I thought a vacation to the land of big women (i.e. cows and pigs with attudities) would change his mind, about the TG. But it did not help!

Z, trying to put a get together for December 13 (Friday Night), at 7pm at the Living Room, for a beer or 20, like firedick states. Come joins us! Maybe we all can help Dude512, not to go down the wrong road.

ChrisC30

11-03-02, 16:07

dude512 -

I find myself getting involved with a girl (Chinese rather than Thai), so I can sympathize. Although my circumstances are different, as Jim knows. (Not a hooker, or atleast not to my knowledge.)

What the rest of the guys say here, although seemingly paranoid, is probably a good idea. Although it depends on your motivations for sticking with this girl. If you want an "innocent" girl, then it's probably a good idea to check her out. Don't want to find out your precious, innocent, angelic BG has pulled this same trick with half a dozen other guys. Consider the investigation part of your pre-nuptial arrangement, especially when dealing with this kind of relationship. If nothing else, you shouldn't feel guilty or sneaky about it, you're only trying to learn more about her, afterall.

Your best bet for a lasting relationship, is to determine what exactly it is about her that you like/love. If it's her innocence, you might want to reconsider, as there are others atleast equally innocent, and haven't been a BG. If it's genuinely "her" that you want, make it work, get involved, take the chance. Clearly understanding what motivates you to feel what you feel for her is one step closer to relationship wisdom. If she's really "new" to the bar scene, you've got it very easy to make this work. The longer a girl has been a BG, escort, hooker, the more set she will be in her ways, or atleast that's the formula.

Assuming she isn't being deceitful, you just may have landed yourself a winner. Hold on to her.

Cebu Local

11-03-02, 16:23

guys
looks like dude 512 is decided,if he is decided lets try to help lower the odds,remember some guys want to get married and have kids etc,if he wants to do this with a thai bar girl it is his life,some people win the lottery,he might be one of the ones that work out,though the odds are really really bad.Z may blast him,but it apparently wont change his mind,but if he is decided on a TG to marry etc,
Dude have you gone out with normal TG s or like Firedick American Thais,this might be a better option then a Thai bargirl.by the way remember that not all thais are HHH,there are perfectly normal thai girls around

Firedick

11-03-02, 20:03

ChrisC30,

Give us a break ! What are you, a high school counselor ? It sounds like you just like hearing yourself talk. Your advice to Dude is, at best idealistic and at worst, dangerous. "you've got it very easy to make this work" ! Like hell he does ! Even if she was right out of college and had never seen the inside of a bar there would be a ton of cultural obstacles to overcome.

Our warnings are not paranoid, but rather practical tempered by experience.

Dude,

It's not that unusaul for a newbie to fall for a charing Thai bargirl. So don't feel like a total boob. But that IS what she is. Is it possible for you to make it work ? Sure. Would I bet on it ? Not with a thousand to one odds.

You almost sound guilty for having been born into a good life. Enjoy it.

FD

Seydlitz

11-03-02, 21:37

Dude512;

rest assured that we know about the bar scene in Thailand. Your secret is safe with us...

On the points you make in your latest post:
* you would not let her down. You paid the dowry, the familly got wealthier thanks to you. Normally, to get that much money across to the family, your loved one should spend a lot of time on her back. You are a benefactor to the depressed Isaan economy. Do not feel bad about it.

* once again, I am convinced that your loved one is not a hardened veteran. She sounds like a decent girl to me, and a nice person to be with. This does not make her a virgin nor a perfect bride.

* Many girls in the bar are relatively shy, and do not market themselves aggressively. It is a pleasant side of this hobby of ours to spot those quiet ones, hire them out and enjoy the skills they did not display too visibly. You fond yourself a nice one, and you enjoyed her. Good for you. Now move on.

As we collectively indicated, your choice is not limited to getting married to her (perish the thought) or never get in touch with her again. You could also turn her into your special lady in LOS. Let her live the life of a BG, and for you, visit Thailand as much as you can, and whenever you are in town, give her a buzz. She will welcome you at Dong Muang and spend with you every minute of your time in the country.

That way, you'll get a fully dedicated concubine with no string attached otherwise. I am convinced that she will understand that arrangement far better than adjusting to a lonely life as a bride in the US. She is a working girl. She makes a living by having sex with men. If you tell her that you like her a lot, that you like the way she takes care of you, the good sex you have with her etc. and that you come back to Thailand regularly to see her and enjoy her company, she will be glad, and gain quite a lot of face in her circles.

All that need not be expensive. In fact, for the amount of money you forked out to the family, you should get some credit in the pillowing department.

All that is available to you, I am sure, but you probably would need to be a bit stronger and more experienced to secure it. There is a limit to the help that the people around here can do for you.

Cebu Local

11-04-02, 00:27

dude 512
Seydlitz has a good point,a concubine or minor wife is perfectly acceptable in Thai culture,you do not treat her badly and make her lose face,that way you are free but have her available at any time,like the thai chinese girl i am considering making a minor wife,at worst if after 2 years or so you are still decided you can always marry her,nither black or white but gray,you have her as a minor wife,but you have your freedom to either dump her or marry her ,good luck

Baby Huey

11-04-02, 00:40

dude512,

It sounds like you are really starting to ask yourself the question, I'm I going down the wrong road.

If this question in your mind, then this girl is not for you. Because if she was, you be driving right square into it. Go with your feeling, that this may not be the right road to go down. Just be friends with her. There is no reason to rush into a marriage with a girl you do not know completely and a culture that you do not understand.

Like Seydlitz stated, go to Thailand as much as you can and have fun with her and other girls too. Thailand can be a addiction, and she could be part of the addiction for you.

Enjoy your life! Do not make a mistake! It can cost you a lot of years of your life and a lot of money too, if you go the wrong way! Hope to see you in December, having fun, the Thailand way!

Firedick

11-04-02, 03:03

Jimhart69,

See you in December (to Dude) ? Does that mean we have a chance to talk some sense into him face to face ? Good deal.

Dude,

Please join us. We will not talk down to you. But hopefully, we can show you how to safely navigate Thai waters.

Z,

I would enjoy meeting you as well.

Now...if we can get Joe Zop to come along, we'll have a truely motley crew !

Dec 13th. Place unknown as yet.

Dick Johnson

11-04-02, 07:36

Guys, Dude512's chick is in Patong(Phuket) not Patpong(Bangkok)!

Dude512, hi it's Dick here. If you are too concerned how many dude she's fucked then don't bother. I've been there. It's not an easy situation. She said 3 dudes but it might be 30, or 300. She could be in the scene for a couple of years for all we know. I'm not trying to rain on your parade but I would not even bother with detectives and all that. It'll just get your hurt more. Just ask yourself if she's fucked 300 dudes would you still want her.

I've known Thai-farang marriages that work, at least for 10 years or so, and some that don't. It's a decision YOU have to make based on your circumstances. But it's a dangerous game and you can get hurt.

ChrisC30

11-04-02, 07:53

Well it's nearly 2 AM here on the east coast. Nothing much going on. Sending afew emails, reading the forum, etc...

Was wondering what some of you might find the best feature of Thai women, not their bodies, but what makes the magic that makes you want to go back there over and over?

Also, what are the best methods for dealing with a troublesome mamasan? I know some of you might say "just go to another bar", but suppose it's late, you're half-drunk, and you're stuck with godzilla the mamasan?

Joe Zop

11-04-02, 11:33

Z., FD, et all:

December 13th is a possibility for me; not positive yet. I'm heading to Chiang Mai tomorrow, and will be back in Bangkok around the 20th or so for a couple of days -- around mid-December I expected to either be exploring the coasts or eastern areas, but since you all are getting together, I will see if I can shift things around so I can just be returning to Bangkok from Cambodia at that point. Again, my schedule flexibility depends on how my work is going, and I just don't know that yet. And I'm still planning a run to Korat at some point, Z, just not sure when quite yet -- my brain's still a bit jet-lagged, and I always forget when I drink it the first time that Singha has that high alcohol content... And Z, clearly the thread here says that no matter how much it's said, how much information is out there, people are people and people are fools (myself heartily included!)

Dude, the basic problem you have is that even if it's real it still has the great likelihood of being an utter disaster, even taking the bar scene out of the equation, since you don't know Thai culture, don't really know her, and she doesn't really know you either. And you can't really take the bar scene out of the equation and clearly you don't since you're still saying you'd think differently about her if she'd been with 300 guys. You say that's because she'd have lied to you -- didn't you hear what anyone was saying about lying and Thai culture?

Certainly you're right that there are lots of women from Issan who end up in the scene; it's simply poorer there and there are fewer options, and the sex scene is one of them. There's no question that intensity level is strong and can help you lose perspective. For example, the girl I was with last night was from Khon Kaen, in Bangkok about four months, and still very much naive in many ways and unhardened. Full-on GFE, and a truly lovely time and girl. And there's no question it's a head-spinner, if you let it be, but you simply have to check youself, know where you are, and imagine the consequences for real.

Here are yours: you can't imagine spending more than four months or so in Thailand; that means either she has to spend double that time in the US or away from you. What happens then? If she's in the US she's probably going to be miserable -- away from family, no friends, completely strange culture, nothing to do. If she's in LOS and you're not, both you and she are going to be creating all kinds of ideas about what the other is doing while you're away -- long-distance realtionships are damn tough, but here you add in the bar scene, the difference in culture, in social status, etc. Why don't you just jump off a mountain and try to fly? In all likelihood you'll get pretty much the same landing. :D

Apac Boy

11-04-02, 19:27

joe,
somebody of ur vocabulary skillz should do a lot better job at describing exactly WHAT happened between u and this girl from khon kaen.

smack it, flip it, rub it down..oh nooooooooooooooooo

tapioca

TonydaSnake

11-04-02, 21:13

Dude 512,

You brought up a great topic and got an awesome response, and that is something to be proud of. Please don't rationalize any further how your situation is somehow different from *****monger A, close but not quite like B, and not planned but just the hand of fate, and therefore unique.

Ask your family and friends what they think, or a priest. Be sure to mention her BG past since dishonesty is no way to start any good marriage. As a matter of fact, the dishonesty would stem from your lack of confidence that this would work.

ChrisC30,

I think Thai women are addictive because they plug right into my primal needs, to hunt and spread seed. The artificial bar scene of Bangkok brings these need to me in an incredibly rapid form that has a narcotic effect, and is therefore addictive. That beautiful Thai girl I just met, looking into my eyes like I'm the only man, and uttering Thai phrases (probaby, f#$kinfarang, but it doesn't matter) as we have sex soon after is basically it for me. This experience is all but unique on the planet.

as far as tough mamasans try the same thing that works with everyone else in Thailand, put some bhat in her palm. If that doesn't work try squeezing her butt since some of these mamasans are horndogs, and are just jealous that you don't want boom boom with her!

Apac Boy

11-05-02, 02:10

damn u freeler...using my quotes against me.

i wanna see joe type sumthin' like dis "i saw dat ho and i axed her if she go wit me. we gots back, we gots naked, we gots a goin on. she axed me wat i like, i said let me eat it, lick it, stick it..we was going all niiiiight loooong"

slap it flip it rub it down...

tapioca

Joe Zop

11-05-02, 05:11

Now, now, guys, settle down. I've got something considerably more detailed forthcoming, though, sorry, Tap, I've already done the dirty book writing style and it's just not me :) -- something very likely obnoxiously long, as might be expected, and that will no doubt make Z see red -- just scroll on, my friend! -- but the internet cafe I was at yesterday was rather uncooperative, so I could only get out the one post. I wrote it up on my portable, and will post it once I get to Chaing Mai (my flight's in a couple of hours) presuming, that is, that the net's not down there -- saw news reports yesterday that part of downtown there is under water from late-season rains. Should be interesting. I'll post it in the Bangkok area, since that's more appropriate for such a field report. Now I'm off to Pantip Plaza before I go -- need a converter, as the battery charger on my PDA doesn't like these voltages...

dude512

11-05-02, 05:36

ok I got the point. No more rationalizing:

1. She is thai, a culture which i know little abouot
2. She is/was a BG, with all those problems
3. If even if she is being staight with me,whcih she very well maybe, there are still #s 1 + 2

thanks for helping me clarify things....

Dick Johnson

11-05-02, 10:54

Dude, some of the folks who ***** about how a marriage wouldn't work with a Thai girl have problems of their own that a marriage with a white biatch wouldn't work either.

Tap is a rapper too.

WayneKing

11-05-02, 11:46

URGENT DUDE 512
Once again I have been woken from my slumbers by a real classic.
She said she has only been with three guys for short time only. I have got to ask you what if she had told you the truth which I am sure goes something like this..'I am completely knackered because a large sweaty German has been humping me for the last few hours and I don't know if I can manage another round.' Would you have fancied her then?
I live in HK and have a couple of girls in BKK who I visit when I feel inclined but it is only to have great sex and a laugh. Please lets not start to go on about there poor up-bringing, only earning Bht 5,000 a month in a factory etc... 99% of the population seems to get by ok with this method of existance. The fact that she is pretty, has big tits or both etc... enables her to earn more in a week than a doctor does in a month. Whatever you do dont send her any money because she says she is a good girl and is going to get a job in a hairdresser!! You should see the que down at the ATM next to Nana on the first day of the month!!
She works in a bar, tries her best to find anyone who will pay to have sex with her and will totally destroy your life if you marry her. Have you found out if she is already married? I know a number of guys that have shelled out the cash to find that the brother (actual husband) has spent it all on a new car, bike whatever.
The other point is she WILL beak your heart because she just does not come from the same world as you. Stuff that you think is important just does not register.
I think it was Cebu Local got it right by suggesting you go and stays in a bamboo shack in the middle of nowhere for a few weeks. I am sure that will put everything into perspective, especially when you have to sleep with all the men and cannot get your end away.
The Bar girls are great to have fun with, hang out with for a few days (if necessary) but under no circumstances marry them.
I have seen a dozen or so of my friends do so and it always ends in tears!
One showed up in HK with his new wife and tried to get her a job in an office. He told them she worked for Microsoft in Bkk. Guess what she could not even turn on the computer!!
Dude512 you have done well to get yourself to the other side of the world, don't ruin it by ruining your life,

Wayneking

dude512

11-05-02, 12:03

Wayneking:

actually when i first met her she said she just short timed a big fat 60 year old german bastard, who stunk, had genital warts, and vomitted on her. So i figured, hey why not go down on her and clean her up...

Firedick

11-05-02, 18:01

DUDE !!!

Genital warts are contagious ! Keep a close eye on your pecker. They can be tough to eliminate (been there done that).

Dick Johnson,

Good point. The longest relationship I ever had was 3 years. So, for a "dysfunctional" like me (sorry Joe Z., I know that's bad grammer) S.E. Asia is perfect. Nobody gets hurt.

Dec. 13th is looking good. I will definately be in BKK from the 10th to the 14th. Hope you can make it Joe. Hell...I hope any of guys can ! Prog, I realize that you will be too tired from Angeles.

FD

Progman

11-05-02, 19:13

FD,

Too tired from AC?? By the time my Thailand trip rolls around I would have had one month to recuperate... As a matter of fact I may even throw in a few trips down to Tijuana just to keep my skills up…

1 day and a wake-up!

…(prog)

WayneKing

11-06-02, 05:36

Dude 512
Sorry to be so frank, but if the words hurt from me think how much it will hurt when you catch her actually doing something that is unacceptable to you. I am trying to give you the wake-up call I have tried to give a number of friends of mine. (Without much success i might add.)
These sweet little Angels seem to weave a web that really does catch the imagination and hearts of westerners from America to Australia. I actually think it says a great deal about western women, but that is another issue.
So my advice to you is have her as your number one girlfriend in Thailand. Find time to see her if you can. Try to avoid any 'sick buffalo' stories. (You have already spent enough to buy a small heard anyway.) And think of her as you Asian girlfriend (if you really have to.)
My real advice would be to get busy with a host of other TG's. Probably save you money in the long run. Dont take her to America as she will hate it within a month or will start cheating on you within two.
Good Luck
Wayne

dude512

11-06-02, 06:31

wanye:

Sorry, was just tring to be funny, and sacastic about the genital warts and the fat german dude, they are no laughing matter.

I did come here for some adivice. I think you mentioned know people that sayed with TGs longer term, what exactly happended to them and how did they go bad?

I figure if this chick doesn't like in in the USA after a couple of months, it's fine with me to send her back. I'm just trying to see it as part business relationship, as i am sure she sees it. I plan to do some traveling with her around the country, like we did in thailand , so she should not be to bored. If she leaves in a couple of months, she would have seen some stuff she would never had, staying in thailand, and i would have had a nice traveling companion for that time.

What expeiences have you had or others her with taking one on these chick out of the country? I know it is a bad idea, but i can't resist. She keeps saying "i want take care of you...". It's too cute.

-dude

Cebu Local

11-06-02, 12:34

Dude 512
one more time,i think you may have missed it,before bringing her back to the states,bring her to nuetral country like hong kong,singapore etc first,that way you do not have to go through the hassle of a fiance visa to get to know her better,six months to a year wait and lots of expenses.Anybody else here brought TG s out of Thailand ????

Baby Huey

11-06-02, 14:47

adleZ,

I also have had two posting, turn up missing in the last day??? In the last three days there have been some fun things happen with the board. I have got message saying you can not post another message for 3600 seconds, you can not post beacause administrator has denine you access to this page of the board. What is going on????

Progman

11-06-02, 14:54

My posts are getting erased as well. Maybe we have a bible-thumper for a moderator. If that's the case then - sorry man! But we are going to talking about S--E--X on this board. I know for a fact that my last post did not have any flames or "bad" words. The only thing I had in it was I was ribbing Z a little for telling Dude512 to say "thank you" to the Thai girls (all in fun)... If that's enough to get my post erased then it time to move on. I sent Jackson an email to see if he/she could explain why our posts are being erased. I really don't expect to get a response but who knows.

...(prog)

Baby Huey

11-06-02, 15:40

My posting were also very clean. One of my posting was picking on Z too, that he was not being his normal self on the board. Now we understand, his good posting on not getting posted on the boards. I thought the Ohio Girls, really start affectting Z's mind. TG were on his good side.

Thor

11-06-02, 17:38

Hey guys, I think I know the answer to the recent problems. There was a flaming A-Hole that went by the handle Call Street. He began posting a couple of weeks ago, primarily in the LA and Orange County areas, but also Boston and Chicago. His agenda was to promote a lame Yahoo group site, where he is the moderator, and gives out zilch info on the So Cal scene. In 2 weeks, he posted some 40 times, gave out -0- decent info, and got into flame wars with multiple people. Jackson finally deleted all his posts, but was gracious, and did not ban him, hoping he would take the hint. Call Street's response was to keep flaming people, including Jackson. Jackson finally banned him. CS came back with multiple aliases and posts, using up as much band width as he could by copying AP newspaper articles in large type. This meant some posts took up as much as an entire page. To prevent this from continuing to happen, I think Jackson had to make some changes regarding posts, etc, that have resulted in some of the glitchs, to prevent CS from being a continuous A-HOLE. BTW, Jackson is currently on vacation in Buenos Aires. I'm sure he doesn't need this extra aggravation, and is probably somewhat handicapped in what he can do to combat this sort of problem, on a long distance basis. If anyone is an IT expert, [I'm not], they may be able to shed more light on the problems and solutions to morons like this. Check out the Hall of Shame[banned posters], in the Admin area for more info. thor

Progman

11-06-02, 18:39

thor,

I'll keep this short: There's a very good chance this asshole is using the same computer, especially if he has the time to send so much crap. If that's the case then the Discusware software that I'm sure Jackson is using has the ability to intercept the NIC information from this joker’s computer. Once he does that he can route that data into a bit-bucket. I appreciate your input but I don’t buy it (no offense). It seems that specific posts are getting deleted. I think the moderator of THIS thread has a new agenda and we just haven't figured it out yet.

...(prog)

Apac Boy

11-06-02, 18:53

dammit skinless, then email me with places i can go...

i am the moderator, hear me roar. RAWR.....

AGL

11-06-02, 19:41

wildman - your 11/06 7:08 post.. haleluya! thanks for saying it. i finally had to tune out. i was getting dizy from dude's going on and on about it. sure i'm guilty i posted quite a bit to him in the beginning but dam, enough is enough.

dude512 - honestly, i am not trying to be a jerk here but seriously. this forum is not about sorting out guy's love issues. that's what oprah is for. do let us know how it goes and ask once in a while but you gotta admit, your topic has dominated this scene lately. you know how the majority feels. now it's "up to you"...

-agl

AGL

11-06-02, 19:55

skinless - are you going to post in tokyo section? i'm heading over there end of this month so have been reading that forum lately to get caught up on the latest..

always hungry for a good deal in the rising sun. it's typically TOO expensive there... thanks.

-agl

Firedick

11-07-02, 01:40

Dudes,

we may be the victims of a technical glick rather than censorship.

I got he 3600 second msg too and have had two very benign posts deleted/lost.

The last msg was to Dude, suggesting that we move this "dead horse" off the board. Dude, I brought a girl from the Philippines back to the states. If you'd like some private advice, feel free to email @: firedick@directvinternet.com

FD

AGL

11-07-02, 02:06

skinless - excellent question but difficult to answer. i still have my male mind and therefore perspective.

the standard at which i would be willing to give it away at the moment is much lower than if i thought like a women. basically i am in total agreement with Z but i will admit that i would give it away to an uglier girl than my looks might presently be considered to a woman. Huh? that made no sense....

o.k so i guess i might be good for about a two or a three hundred dollar fuck (but don't we all think ourselves so beautiful when looking in the mirror) assuming of course that the women in your scenario are about as horn doggy as we men are now.

happy hunting in tokyo. if you do score a decent priced japanese business woman and want to share her with a "friend" who is coming over in a few weeks i'd be happy to provide my email for the referal.

-agl

TonydaSnake

11-07-02, 18:40

Skinless, good question but maybe too tough to tackle. Guys have a couple of shortcomings that women don't have regarding selling themselves. First, guys have an inflated opinion of how good they look and how good they are in bed. Its not just the fat Germans everyone talks about that are disgusting. Second, women have certain mental strengths that help them get through the humiliation of having load after load dumped on or in them. The first stinky hole a guy comes across and he'd bail! The guys who can accept nasty suprises wouldn't have the looks or body for the biz, I guarantee it!

Also, I'm very angry at you because Venus told me I took her virginity. Ha! ha! ha! ha! No seriously, dude she's better than average in bed and loves 69. I hope you didn't pay any of her bar tabs since I watched her fork out 1100+ bhat on two occasions. Venus was more than good to me though, bought me drinks, and never wasted or asked for money. Yeah, I went bowling with her and caught a couple movies, but I enjoyed the money spent. Thanks for posting your take!

Who out there really think Thai girls (BGs or regular) are good in bed. I've had BGs, two regular thai girlfriends (one upper, one working class) and plenty of American humps. My conclusion is Thai girls rate in the bottom third for thrills. All my best sexual experiences were with western girls. In my opinion, the addiction of Thai girls (easy, cmpliant, smiling sex) overwhelms their shortcomings which are obvious). Any other thoughts?

Re skinless's when is enough enough. Let's have a voting board that decide's (based on submited photo) whether a *****monger of any age is worthy of the trade. I think more than the germans would be suprised! I'd say hell no! to plenty of dudes I saw. Who would put in their picture?

TonydaSnake

11-07-02, 19:55

Es toot mere lite! I would never single out my German brethren for ridicule.

NEWS FLASH! westerners are fat and not just the women...

Ask Thai BGs what they think about all this, they are alot more honest to honest question than alot of you give them credit for...

Baby Huey

11-07-02, 20:43

I am in total agreement on the western men being to big for there own good in attitude and looks. Had have seen to many western guys in the bars acting like there sh$# does not stink in the clubs. Treating the girls, mamasans, and workers like they are the garbage. Plus they act like they are want to be millionaires, because there money goes 4 to 5 times farther. They should remember that they are the visitor and this is their country.

I had seen one guy in June get into a verbal flight with a girl and mamasans, because the girl would not go to his hotel with him. This guy was 350 pounds, smell and nasty looking; I would not go with a girl that looks like this for any amount of money. On top of that he was a S.O.B.

On TG in bed, I do some what agree. But I would group as all the girls thru out the world. I go with the 80/20. 20% of all girls will be great in bed; the other 80% is average. The reason you hear more TG are good in Bed, is what western country can a guy say he can try multiple girls everyday for weeks on end? Under the 80/20 concept, 2 out of 10 girls will be good, once you find a great girl, keep going back. It is call playing the field, and you can play the field faster in Thailand, than your home country.

Plus the other reason you hear this in Thailand, is most of the men are 20 years older than the girl. The girls are probably more active than the regular girls these guys see in there home country. Thus they are great in Bed.

TonydaSnake

11-07-02, 21:46

Ich habe nur eine jare in Deustchland gewont. Ich spreche ein bischen Deustch. Ich liebe nur mein schwanze zwischen die madchen beinen stecken!!! Or something like that....

right on Jimhart69, and the 80/20 split. Such splits apply to any aspect of an individual for instance some percentage of Thai ladys would be happy married to a farang and living outside Thailand (re dude512 dilemma). For good sex try alot of BGs and ask them questions first. To score with non BGs go to places a Thai girl interested in western culture would hang out-that's not too hard to figure out and sure as hell DOES NOT include bars. But be prepared to spend some time on cracking that nut...

AGL

11-07-02, 22:26

jimhart69 - sorry dude but you set me off and i'm gonna be a little hostile here. nothing personal.. dam man you just seem to have it all figured out now don't you...

i have to say you do sound a bit like one racist bastard. with regard to your sweeping generalization of western men, i can assure you that i too have witnessed an inordinate amount of asian men treating women like shit as well. not just in thailand but also in room salons, ktv, office, outside, etc. so step off pal..

how often have i heard an asian women say she will never date an asian man again. that by and large western men treat women with so much more dignity and respect...

and fights.... yeah sure i've seen plenty of drunk asian dudes try to bitc*slap a "business women"..... yell and argue with them and treat them "like the ho's that they are".... acting as though they are indeed king and all should bow to their own selfinvolved greatness

IMHO there are plenty of arrogant "my shit don't stink" asian men out there to give your commentary a run for its money. should we start with you?

-agl

TonydaSnake

11-07-02, 23:35

agl...man, you have a thin skin. Whether you are from west or easy has nothing to do with racism, so that is an ignorant statement. This forum ain't about Thai men, and although its not about falang either, we are the majority of the poster (I'd wager to guess), so it makes perfect sense for us to talk about what we hopefully know fairly well, ourselves and our culture. You talk about what Thai women say, I agree with you that they are more honest than given credit for, but some respected poster's here would say that has no basis in reality.

Also, why don't you jump all over the posters who knock the fat, smelly German? There's more than one...

Last, in my arrogant view, the fact that no one in the forum says anything about themselves makes the forum less interesting because one must assume that all posters making statements and judgements about the Thai scene are the same, and that just ain't true. C'mon don't any of you wonder a bit what that stud who just posted his conquest is really like. Me- I'm 39yo, 6'2", 165lbs, in shape and have all my hair...you don't care? Ha! ha! ha! ha!

AGL

11-08-02, 00:30

tonydasnake - i really don't know what you mean by "Whether you are from west or easy has nothing to do with racism, so that is an ignorant statement." (first i assume you meant east not easy - typo).

of course it does....

i was certainly saying jimhart69 sounded like a racist. and it was for what he said and how he said it. and i was assuming he is from the east. if you are saying you know him personally and know he is western then that would obviously change my perspective of what he said. it's kind of like how blacks can use the "N" word toward each other but whites can not. (sorry guys just using this as an example here).

so you see, it really depends on if jimhart69 is western or asian now doesn't it.

why don't i jump all over posters who talk about fat german dudes? BECAUSE IT'S TRUE..! o.k. just kidding here. like i said in my earlier post, 69 set me off that's all. again, assume for a moment it was an asian guy writing that report.

and i didn't single out thai guys and gals as you mention. i said asian guys and asian gals... as 69 had said western men and not germans... i spoke of guys in room salon's (korea) and ktv's (japan, taiwan, china), etc... i have witnessed it in all..

anyway like you said, yep i am thin skinned.... i have been accused of that one before.....

peace gentlemen. we are all on the same team at the end of the day.

-agl

Baby Huey

11-08-02, 01:11

Agl,

I am a good old American that is from a German bloodline. Racism, far from it! This American has live in Asia for 11 years and has done business in Asia for an additional 10 years. Married to an Asian Girl. I know Asia probably better than you will ever know.

So to quote you! "Sorry dude but you set me off and I’m gonna be a little hostile here. So step off pal.. I have to say you do sound a bit like one racist bastard." Because if any body went down this road of racism it was you! Talking about abusing the girls etc., and how bad Asian Men are. It really sound like you have some problem with Asian men.

If I have this type of feeling that you are talking about, it is to any men, Asian or Western that abuses the girls. In Asian Culture in which it is slowly getting better now, but men think the women belong at home, bare foot, Etc., not to be heard from. This is Asian culture and it is getting better, but it slow to change.

I have problems with the western guys that come from our world and know better how to treat the girls. And start acting like they are a gods, abusing the system, and somewhat start treating the girls like an Asian Male would. Is this right, No!!! But some guys do, and these are the guys I was talking about. It was not a racism thing like you jump too! You should know what you are talking about, before you talk! And where did I talk about German guys, I was talking about Western guys that treat the girl poorly.

As Tonydasnake state, this forum is about Thai Girls, not Thai, Asian, western, white, black, pink, etc. men. It is about Thai Girls and having fun in Thailand. Again if anybody was racism, it was you! You took it right down that road in your posting. I was talking about problems that we all see in the clubs. Thinking before you post!

Firedick

11-08-02, 01:37

Hmmmm....

Are racist statements racist when they are accurate ? Food for thought, just trying to stir the pot ! Kidding...Jeeez... :)

AGL, I thought your attack on JH69 was unwarranted.

I think that you're "spliting hairs" over semantics. I'm sure that you both abhor men mistreating women, regardless of their social standing, and are just as embarrassed as I am seeing "western men" acting poorly in a country not their own.

Let's have a beer and make up !

Z, if you're talking about our get together, it's pretty set on Dec. 13th. Please join us. Don't know where yet.

Wildman, this is getting a little like Oprah isn't it ?

FD

AGL

11-08-02, 01:57

wildman - :-)))))))))))))) that's what we needed.. now i'm laughin'.

o.k. 69, whatever. but i still don't necessarily agree with you.

i am not sure you have understood my perspective either. "think before i post"..? come on man, we are all guilty of misinterpreting internet chat. we could go back and forth all day but the bottom line is i don't really care anymore. i did then but i don't now.

now i just wanna get laid. i'm gonna take my big fat hairy white ass over to a soapie and abuse the hel out of some good for nothing 2 baht ho and then get drunk. there, do i fit the profile now?

shoot FD. now you had to go and make peace.... alright 69 i'm sorry. i overreacted. a beer on me if you will allow.

-agl

Baby Huey

11-08-02, 02:14

Firedick

I am with you! Lets have a beer or 20 and move on. Agl has really [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) me off on the racism comment. I was not even close to going down that road! I was stating like you said "are just as embarrassed as I am seeing "western men" acting poorly in a country not their own." But that life, some people read into everything. That want make the world turn, and one of the reason there is more than one country in the world. We are all a little different.

Even Z knows what I am talking about. The people that want to be millonaires, the ones walking around like gods in a country that they do not know about, but they have money and more than the locals, thus they need to act like a$$holes. These were the people I was talking about.

Z is probably correct on the soapy massage, so you do not have to see the "want be millionaires". I am starting to understand Z alot. Maybe he is not as bad as we all think?

Z,

The get together will be on Friday the 13th, December, at 7:00p.m. at Living Room in Bangkok. I would and also alot of the rest of us would love to see you there. The first round is on me. I will be wear a bright yellow shirt. So every body will know where to go, in the bar! Can you get down to Bangkok by 7:00, or do you need a later time?

Agl are you going be in town on the 13th? We can buy each other a beer, and we can make up. Maybe dude512 will be there too!

Anybody that wants to come to the get together that will be in Thailand on the 13th of December, please join us at the Living Room in Bangkok. If you do know where the Living Room, please e-mail me at jimhart69@hotmail.com Also I'm in contact with Stickman on this, and hope to see him there too! Let's have some beer and talk some war store about Thailand! See you there!

Baby Huey

11-08-02, 02:51

Hey guys, we need a subject to talk about! Since Z when on vacation and Dude512 had his problem. We have had nothing to talk about. Does anybody have a subject???

AGL

11-08-02, 02:56

69 - i am trying to make it. actually my trip seems to be on then off then on again. i'm in japan for sure early december but then i was suddenly needing to get to the states the week of 12/9. now that comitment is a bit up in the air and so who knows..... i'm really hoping to make it to the living room.

anyway don't take my other comments to heart. like i said, we are all guilty at one point or another of misenterpreting written chat. i overreacted.

-agl

Baby Huey

11-08-02, 03:02

Alt,

Hope to see you in December for a beer or 20.

Dlite_me

11-08-02, 04:11

sorry guys...not to poke the fire anymore....but I enjoyed reading all of your posts
about the situation with Dude512 and the opinions from everyone.

What is it about thai girls?? Or is this phenomenom only occur with Thai BG's or girls in the sex industry?

There are tons of Thai girls in other countries.....like the US?

So what's the difference??

Is it also because of the location....Thailand?

TonydaSnake

11-08-02, 06:48

Its hard to keep an even keel when there are no new sex posts coming out of bangkok; we are, after all, addicts so no wonder we chew each other's heads off! Please, someone give us a fix!!!

deLite_me, the key thing about Thai BGs girls is no deep mystery: they are generally sexy, pretty, and they smile convincingly when you screw them. That in itself is uncommon.

I've had two Thai girlfriends in USA (neither Americanized yet) and I'm amazed at how like the bar girls they were. One was upper class and neither from Issan the main BG breeding ground in Thailand. But although It took time to bed them (months) they were inevitably docile, sexually unskilled, and somewhat boring. The upper class one was just hot looking and sweet but afraid to let anyone in her family know about me. The other one loved sex and would wake me up throughout the night but wasn't into anything other than missionary sex (no oral, greek, or even french kissing). Thus, the cultural impasse, and one thing that ultimately frustrates many guys. But I do know those two ladies (both early 20's) liked me, liked America, and one at least would have married me. So, if you wan't the best chance of longterm success with Asian lady, one who left her country due to her own interest in "the world" is a good starting point; I think, hell, I don't know....

Firedick

11-08-02, 06:49

Wildman,

Your "Springer" comment had me laughing out loud, literally. Too true.

JH69 RE: subject.

Let's talk about soapies ! Where are the good ones ? I know...I could just wait for the 13th, but this is an exchange of info board...

Living Room at 7:00 on the 13th sounds great. Looks like we may have an interesting turnout. But, like Z, I've never been there. Maybe you should just post the locale. We can deal with any "unsavoy" characters that show up. Skinless, remember (I assume that you still read this board) you owe me a date with the water buffalo's sister !

Z, I may actually be going through Korat in May, on my way to Kalasin. Don't ask why.

dlite_me,

It's not just Thai BG's. Think about it...you're a 16 yo girl from a third world country and all you have to do is convince some average (at best) looking mid life crisiser that you love him and your lifestyle improves. Tough decision ?

FD

Firedick

11-08-02, 07:07

tonydsnake,

your post went up while i was writing mine. anyway...you make one excellent point. "one who left her country due to her own interest in "the world" is a good starting point;". dead on. a large percentage of the girls in their country of origin are looking for an out.

i'm sorry to hear about your bad luck with thai girls. my current thai gf is 29 and was a virgin when i met her..... (waiting for the laughter to die down)... but now, after one year, she is into everything except the "[CodeWord116] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord116) shoot" which is no big deal to me. she even surprized me on her way to work this morning with a wake up "hummer".

point ? none really. just try'n to get back to sex after all the psycho babble.

fd

Duniawala

11-08-02, 08:35

Just a change of subject. I think we have battered dude512 enough.

Alas, I won't be able to be there on the 13th. Change of plans due to business.

I ask you gentlemen, whether I was suckered or not. Last time I was there I met this cutie at the Bush Garden, who played pool all afternoon with me. Bought her drinks etc. No big deal. Then she asks me if I want to go out after she gets off at 6. I said OK if there is no bar fine.

So we go ou for dinner and walking around the mall (MBJ?) when I said it's time to go back to my room for bang bang. Oh no, she says. I am not one of those girls. I go out only for sightseeing etc. she says. Only evening shift girls do the bang bang. Not the afternoon girls.

I paid her her the 1000 baht we had settled upfront and went back to my hotel and chalked it up as an expensive lession.

Anybody had similar experience? I never knew that afternoon girls didn't f**k.

I feel suckered. Any comments?

Firedick

11-08-02, 09:36

duniawala,

Yes, you were suckered. Always ask beforehand, what you are getting for your 1000. Yeah...I know, it seems tacky. But business is business.

Wildman,

I'm just a little embarrassed to admit it. I will be in the LOS in May, for diving as well as "mongering" and my Thai GF from here has announced that she's going home to visit the family in Kalasin at the same time. (I can't imagine the heat there at that time). I'm expected to make an appearance. Now...beofre you all (Zman especially) jump me about "bringing sand to the beach or a sack lunch to a buffet" she is paying her own way and plans on spending maybe a week with me out of the month that I will be there. I'm guessing it will be worth it just to keep me in regular puntang here. I'm 46 and she's a pretty good score for me here. Cooks, cleans, makes her own clothes, likes camping and knows that I monger ! I have "blank check" forgiveness since I don't lie about it.

I'm actually not looking forward to Kalasin. It represents quite a bit more commitment than I am willing to make. But I've been up front about what a shit I am, so the choice is hers.

We're getting into "Springer" catagory again....

FD

TonyTony

11-08-02, 14:37

No problem on the 13. Whats the address of the Living Room?

Good choice! Probably the best bar in BKK. It is located between Soi 13 and 15 on Sukhumvit, just get off at Nana BTS (Soi 3) and walk towards Asok BTS or get off at Asok BTS (Soi 19) and walk towards Nana :) I believe Asok being closer.. It is very close to Clinton Plaza. And Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy for that case... And 5 minutes by BTS to Patpong, if anybody cares.

Baby Huey

11-08-02, 14:43

Everybody,

The Living Room is located right on Sukhumvit Road real close to Clinton Plaza. Kinda, right in front of Clinton Plaza. The web site for the Living Room is www.thelivingroombangkok.com. If you go into their site, go to contact us, in this section there is map. It is about 8 minute walk from Nana. It is great bar to meet people and talk. It is a bigger place, so it should be a great place to meet.

Firedick,

The best soapy that I like are CP2 and Mirage. The reason I like these are for cost and service. They both cost a little more than Anne's, but the service is alot better. The only problem with them there is a distance to go to get to them. CP2, you can take the subway from Sukhumvit, and than it is about 5 minute walk from the subway station. Mirage, the only way I have found to get there is Taxi and it is about a 20 minute Taxi ride from Sukhumvit.

The place I have not try, and it is not a Soapy, is the Baron. This is a oil massage, but with the soapy turn on it. The Baron is on Sukhumvit, down in the direction on Soi Cowboy. I have not been there yet, but on this trip, plan to make a stop there and check out the service. I hear it is great!

Firedick

11-08-02, 18:51

JH69,

Thanks for the info. I will try the Baron "oily". I hope there's a bath in the room, I wouldn't want to walk out like the "Firedick Valdez" !!

Freeler,

Only 36. Burrrrrr. I took the girl I brought home from the RP to the Colorado river in August. I had warned her that the Southwest gets a lot hotter than the RP. Of course, she didn't believe me. But it hit 47c !!! (116f to my fellow yanks). Shut her right up. Now, that's with about 5% humidity, so it's barable, but...

Not a sanuk trip. I will keep my dick in my pants in Kalasin. Just for her "face". Anyplace else is fair game.

Tony, thanks for the location.

FD

Baby Huey

11-08-02, 22:54

Here is a subject that I do not like. I know this is not the forum for this, but this really pisses me off and hope it does not come in to play in Thailand. Here is some new info on the terrorest on the Asia front. This is a quote on CNN from the Al Qaeda on Bali today; "DENPASAR, Indonesia (CNN) -- Islamic militant group al Qaeda has claimed responsibility for the bomb attack on a Bali nightclub in which more than 180 people died.

The group said it had targeted "nightclubs and *****houses in Indonesia" in a Web site message which also boasted of its aim to hit inside Arab and Islamic countries which are part of a "Jewish-Crusader" alliance. "

Here is the site; there is more info on it about the problems in Asia and Bali with the al queda. www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/11/07/bali.bombings.qaeda/index.html

The bottom line this sucks. When they are starting to hurt the fun in Paradise. But that is enough on this subject! Back to the regular forum, the fun and the girls of Thailand!

Firedick, They do have showers.

Baby Huey

11-09-02, 03:50

Everybody that will be at the get together on December 13th. Just got a message from Stickman confirming he would like to join us for some beers also. It is sound like we will have a good mix of people at this meeting. It should be fun!

Joe Zop

11-09-02, 11:13

Z -- if I manage to make it I promise to buy you one as opposed to hit you with it. Though no guarantees if you're as repetitive in conversation as in posting :D

All -- still a bit up in the air for me, unfortunately. My CM lease sadly expires on the 14th, so my presence may depend on whether or not I manage to get everything settled into a new place before a run back south, or whether I get enough arranged to do a full move getting back that day..

Dick Johnson

11-09-02, 14:01

I might be able to make it there on the 13th.
richard_johnson@angelfire.com

And we should all either :

1)Bring our own Thai Girl.
To encourage all to bring real good looking girls, whoever gets the best looking TG gets $5 or 200bt from everyone. Then we can party.

2)go hunt for Thai Girls after our 'meeting'.

Damn, I had an unbelievable time last times in May and July.

Baby Huey

11-09-02, 14:50

Z,

I am with Joe, instead of hitting you with a beer bottle, I will put one in front of you, so you can drink it! This get together will fun and should be fun! We can finally meet each other and talk some war story about our times in Thailand. And if we all hit it off, we can go on a March. What I mean about a March, is we go Nana, go to a club and have a beer, than to the next club and the next and the next, etc., until they all close or we all fall down, which ever comes first! Lets have a party!

Freeler,

I agree that Indonesia is a hole. But, this group has state they are targeting other areas that westerns hang out in the Philippines, Thailand, and Singapore. And this information is not just from CNN. These group are known to be operating in Southern Thailand. But this is enough of this subject, back to the fun in Thailand. We do not need to be depressed.

Firedick

11-10-02, 00:24

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the input on the soapies. I guess I'll just have to give as many of them a try as time will allow.

Z,

Put me on the list of guys who'd be happy to buy you a beer. We need colorful characters here, and you qualify.

Dick J.

I think that's an excellent idea ! A bar girl beauty pagent ! Anyone who shows up with a katoey though, buys for the group ! A bar crawl after does seem in order.

Joe,

Good luck on the move. Hope to see you.

A word about the recent security warnings. Indonesia is not just a dump, but it's a Muslim country. And the Indonesian government has not been cooperating with the global anti terrorist efforts. Was it Al Queda ? Possibly. But if I were an Al Queda chief, cell leader, grand poobah, whatever... I'd be taking credit for everything up to and including bad traffic accidents ! I just don't think you can compare security there with that of Thailand or the Philippines. If we start watching our asses too much we are letting them win, to a small degree.

On on !

FD

Cebu Local

11-10-02, 03:54

guys
about these osama lovers,these bastards are screwing everything up,my personal business is down over25% with people cancelling or postponing their travel,the best reaction is to show no fear aside from the usuall safety tips which i posted before,go for it you,wish i could be their on the 13th,on a personal note i have decided to go to malaysia this jan and screw as many malay and indonesian moslems as i can,sort of releasing my frustration on osama out on his fellow moslems,just did a philippine moslem girl yesterday.for the record moslem girls are not great in bed IMHO,too shy,but i just imagine she is one of Osamas wives or sisters,i am not rough or anything with them after all they have nothing to do with osama.go guys show no fear to these al quedas

Firedick

11-10-02, 07:50

surabaya (java) is great for bj's too. i imagine it's not considered as great a sin.

skin,

that post was a little on the dark side. are we [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127) ? certainly not. i don't even consider it exploitive, since we are not trying to maintain the economic "status quo" that drives girls into such a life. do i feel sorry for them ? often. but i'm not responsible for them.

cebu is venting, as any of us might in his situation. and if his comments were a little inflammatory, remember, the wound is still fresh and some us were hurt more than others.

fd

Cebu Local

11-10-02, 08:13

all
thanks for putting it in perspective,FD was right,I was just venting,since my business is in the travel industry the recent round of travel advisories cost me a couple hundred grand in cancelled bookings,i lost a couple of european and japanese tourgroups,this kinda impacts on my lifestyle on money available for our hobby.Skinless you are also right about KL,actually the malay girls are great specially with AR,BJ etc I have many moslem friends also so this is not my normal attitude,just got pissed at the osama lovers,so i wasnt rough or anything like that,but i had her dress up in a Chandor,its a persian dress kinda like a burkah before doing her,i picked a fresh girl newly arrived from zamboanga,thats where the abu sayaff are from.the abus are the philippine branch of al queda.I admit it was fun fantasizing that she was one of osama s women,especially since she was very ignorant,did not bj etc.I appologize for my outburst,but i am still headed for KL in january and i would probably have them dress up in a burkah before,cut me a little slack here,some guys like them dressed in thongs,nighties etc.I kinda would prefer to see them in burkahs untill i get over this slump.this osama lovers cost me tens of thousands dollars in personal income or i might head to LOS this jan for Hatyai and get a fuckfest with Thai moslems,any suggestions ??,would anybody reccomend Hatyai??? regards

Joe Zop

11-10-02, 10:19

well, since skinless deleted his posts and i'm coming in late to the discussion, i can't really comment effectively on the whole "closet [CodeWord126] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126)" thing since i lack the context. so i'll just remain silent for the moment other than to say, since my name was bandied, that i try to have some degree of due diligence in who i'm sleeping with, and if there's the slightest sense of discomfort or distress, then the deal's off. i'm into dealing only with willing partners, and i don't do revenge fucking and i'm not into expressing cultural anger or superiority. if others are into that, that's up to them. me, i'm looking for a willing partner who sees what we're doing as a equitable trade, and i admittedly like to some degree of variety in that regard. i also don't believe it's my place to pass judgement on a culture's values or approaches, generally, unless it's something that somehow radically affects me, and this one (unlike muslim anger, which i happen to feel has at least some degree of justification, though this is not the place for that discussion) does not. i have the sense that this may be off the point, but since the original point is off the board it's the best i can do.

Admin

11-10-02, 23:02

Guys,

What as any of this discussion got to do with finding pussy in Thailand?

Please try to keep the posts focused on the subject of this forum, which is "Providing information for men who are looking for sex with women".

Thanks,

Jackson

Joe Zop

11-11-02, 07:23

Just for what it's worth, I happen to find myself in an amazing frame of agreement with almost everyone here :)

I agree with Z's plans for the 13th, and thank him immensely for his on-topic field report. I agree with Freeler that by and large Americans felt (and still feel, despite the hue and cry to the contrary) immune to the realities of the rest of the world. I agree with Wildman (and by extension FD) that Freeler does tend to state his political opinions in inflammatory ways (not that he's the only one, by any stretch -- even as an American I get more than a bit tired of the chest-thumping on this forum) and if you want to post about Indonesia, in any event, there's a section for that. But most of all I agree more than wholeheartedly with Jackson that we should all drop the politics and get back to the proper subject matter of this board and thread.

Jackson, of course, the nature of these forums and people does mean there is a tendency for conversations to wander. Perhaps a Sex and Political Happenings topic in the Opinions section would help contain things to one area?

Firedick

11-11-02, 09:37

the politics of pussy only, from now on.

on the get together... it seems like the venue should determine whether or not to have company. if we're going to do a sitdown/cocktail party, some supplemental eye candy might be fun. but if we do a bar crawl, then i'm in agreement with z and joe zop that girls would just be extra baggage.

what say the rest of you planning to come ?

joe, i read your post in the bkk section. jet lag insomnia inspired ? maybe we could include [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901)'s on the 13th.

fd

TonyTony

11-11-02, 11:27

What say the rest of you planning to come ?

Well, bringing your own ho sound pretty stupid to me. In fact, anytime I would like to walk IN PUBLIC with a Thai ho I would feel VERY ashamed, the same you would feel walking with, e.g., a Russian ho in Hamburg in a public place, or at a Hilton Hotel. And I also suppose we shall investigate quite a number of bars after spending some time in TLR, so, NO NEED for anybody to bring their "favourite ho". Leave them in their bars! I like to fuck hos, and I do treat them VERY friendly when being in private, they treat me fucking great way then as well, some of them fuck for free, but I do NOT fancy taking them to top restaurants or cinemas. Waste of money and my image. Hos in Thailand rank in the lowest possible class, probably somewhere around street dogs, for most Thais, so it is NO pride to be seen with one. Even the bellboy in my serviced appartament looks at me with disgust when bringing in those Udon Thani chicks every other night. Well, almost every night. I do not give a fuck about him though:D)

Anyway, there is another topic which I am very interested, and it is HOW TO RECOGNIZE A WELL PERFORMING HO:

pros:
- smiles a lot
- is a great dancer
- is active (although this doesnt apply to very young chicks, they might be genuinely shy, they may not approach you even if mamasan tells them, but in private, they may be THE BEST thing you had so far)
- drinks (Mekhong with cola, e.g.). Spending 200 Baht on HER drinks makes the experience usually much better. For both of you.
- allows to be touched, shows you her tits, kisses you

cons:
- doesnt drink
- doesnt smile
- resists only on ST, wants to be as quickly over with you as possible, and go to her bar again for another ST fuck. Some of these girls manage 3-4 fucks per Saturday night...
- tells you she is "too shy" to do ANYTHING slightly intimate in a bar
- tells you the price for her service beforehand, always ST, doesnt negotiate, if she does, following service is bad

As for real stunners, some of them perform great, some of them dont. Hard to tell which one will be good, except points mentioned above. As for ugly girls, I do not know, I never tried them.

More hints, anybody?

Baby Huey

11-11-02, 16:19

Everybody that will be at the get together on December 13th.

I am with Z. When I came up this idea, to have this little get together. It was to have us all get together for bullsh$#, meet each other, face to face for some fun, to talk about the fun in Thailand, i.e. the girls, and have some Beer.

Z statement hit on the head: "Z is coming with no date to this shin dig, I hope the rest of you can do us a favor and come empty handed... I prefer to handle the bar staff in the Living Room... I mean who needs a Thai ho around when we are going to talk trash... Rather we walk up and down Sukhumvit Rd drinking everything in sight. If some of get hooked up with a ho early in the evening, good .... Those of us who can fend them off until the late hours... I salute you!"

How do we all talk about the fun and the pussy, with somebody having some pussy sitting right there. I myself will be empty handed too! 7 is way too early to have a girl with you for the evening any how. If you guys want to do the beauty contest things, let’s do that on the Bar Crawl. But start with all us at the Living Room for some good old bullsh$# and pick up the girls, later in the evening on the Crawl.

If you guys have not been to the Living Room before, it is not a Go Go type bar. It is more of a meeting/talking bar, than a party bar. It is a great place to hang out and bullshit. Right now, I know the following people are going to be there, Myself, Firedick, Z, TonyTony, DickJohnson, Stickman, Joe_zop (?), agl (?), dude512(?), plus 3 first timers. Is there anybody I missed? The more, the merrier. See you on the 13th!

Firedick

11-11-02, 20:57

Since the "No's" seem to feel strongly about it, and seem to be in the majority (I'm on the fence myself, but admit that it could be a "buzz kill"), let's forget about bringing "company". This was, afterall, Jimhart69's idea.

Dick Johnson. Maybe some other time/place.

Tonytony,

I do have to disagree with you on one point. The "dancing" pro. I would have to call this a neutral. Dancing may show she's got some ability but her attitude could kill this. I've been with more than a few great dancers that turned out to be "starfish".

Playfulness, with her coworkers, is also generally a good sign. To that end, I was once in Pattaya and gave one of the dancing girls a disposable camera. They had a good time with it and I got some shots that would have been impossible with me taking the shots. I probably should have gotten managements approval prior, but they were OK with it.

Later,

FD

PS: I deleted my inflammatory posts. I was not censored.

TonydaSnake

11-12-02, 01:54

Tony, tony

How to find a well performing 'ho is brilliant topic indeed. Once I was trying for a threesome from a gogo bar and used the "good" dancing concept. Since I wanted back door satisfaction from at least one girl I looked for dancers that moved their booties slow and deliberately. I also backed up that circumstantial evidence by asking them hard questions and noting the responses. Still, the overall experience was a "B" only.

But I have to respectfully disagree with anyone who thinks a short list or two helps pick a top performer. C'mon, where's the beef! All list do is help pick ladies that will a)perform certain non standard behavior and b)do what they say, but not necessarily well.

Getting consistent quality comes down to the sexual experience of the *****monger himself. Guys who have banged a few dozen girls know nothing. Guys who have banged 100+ ho's and non ho's are probably developing the sixth sense needed to pick top performers out of the crowd. What I mean by that is one girl out of possibly many gives you a boner and she hasn't even touched you. Does that sound like Yoda crap? Maybe, but I would recommend trying her out. If you are just walking around with a full time boner than this will obviously not work (sorry viagra crowd). Then, the only reasonable way to ensure quality is to get a suggestion from someone you trust and like hanging out with and not just any ol farang flapping his jaw. Like me...

Jony Vegas

11-12-02, 02:10

Question for all you Thailand mongers.

What stories have you heard, and how prevalent is it that a monger gets a disease from these women in Thailand? And I am talking about using a condom for sex, and no condom for oral.

Thanks in advance

TonydaSnake

11-12-02, 03:31

hey Jony Vegas,

there are some dudes online who love stats and they can give you figures and such. I personally believe the likelihood of disease is relatively low due to standard condom use and the fact that the ho's and customers usually jump in the shower right before and after sex. You can't be much more responsible than that. As far as uncovered oral, the risk of contracting from AIDS is very low. Herpes might be more of a risk but look at the girls mouth for open sores and what not. Not much more you can do other than soap him off ASAP afterwards (usually easy to do).

Adlez...you are nothing if not persistant and I respect that. Your philosophy is profound and elegant in its simplicity (and you call us overly analytical!!!). We do tend to look too hard for that sure thing when in fact our own attitude is the only thing we can control. I know I have let a few BGs attitudes make me go limp...and that should be the shame of the *****monger!

"I will never let a BG make me go limp because of her attitude. I will not take it personally if she just lays there and doesn't act like she loves me...No, I am the pile driver fulfilling my purpose though the earth is sometimes unwilling."

Chief tonydasnake

Firedick

11-12-02, 08:34

Jony vegas,

This subject is likely to start a whole new series of posters "flaming" each other. I have some quality (genuinely) info on the subject. Email me at: firedick@directvinternet.com

Z,

God bless your consistancy.

But to all the rest of you Z makes a good point. A girl at a MP or soapy has to make an impression quickly. If she can "rock your world" in/on a Short Time, she wins, maybe a repeat visit. There is a lot of merit to Z's approach, though not for everyone.

3f's on Dec 13th !!! I gotta get on a plane to Phuket on the 14th, so I'm hoping I'm not to be too hung over ! Is bright yellow the color for the day ? I'm average looking 6' , 215 lbs. I have a mustache' and goatee beard. But since I'm stopping in the Philppines first and they hate them, I may be clean shaven by the time I reach the LOS.
Shit...just a thought. But if you guys that are showing up send me your shirt sizes, I can pick some personalized team shirts up in the RP. Very cheaply.

Yes, no, too weenie ?

FD

Apac Boy

11-12-02, 08:57

of course u can rate sexual performance...a busted nut is NOT a BUSTED NUT. there's nutting and there's NUTTING. if u can't tell the difference, then dats just sad. a girl's sexual performance depends on how well she gets u off.

when u really REALLLY BUST it, ur ballz hurt and ur legs cramp up. that's a 10+ in performance because no one can reach that state with a starfish.

a 1 is when ur hips cramp up cause ur doing all the thrusting. whereas in a 10+, ur hips may still cramp up, but it doesn't hurt cause the pain in ur ballz hurt more.

one time at barons, i thought i came so hard that it was going to make a hole on the top of her head. yes, she was a 10+.

tapioca

TonyTony

11-12-02, 13:32

TonyTony maybe this is something you can start and the rest of us can add and adjust it accordingly. Maybe a database of girls and their talents should be formulated.

Good idea. Best hos, for my particular tastes, are:

(1) Yam (18y, 40kg, Isaan, cup B, Thai), found in King Castle at Patpong, the closest one to Safari Bar, after 2 beers she will do WHATEVER you like, lick your ass, do anal, and she is VERY horny all the time. Last time fucking her, took her home, SHE took a shover, I didnt (did it 3 hours earlier), she still smoked my cock with such an increadible pleasure I wondered that she CANNOT play it. We fucked for 2 hours, then I shaved her pussy, fucked for another hour, anal-fucked her (supposedly for the first time for her, as she told), went to sleep, she wakes up 2 hours later wanting to fuck again.. So we did. And the same in the morning, well 3pm "morning" :D) Smooth, silky body. Was happy to give her 1.500 B for LT.

(2) Tjen (18, 43kg, Udon Thani, cup A, Thai-Chinese, VERY popular with Japanese clients) found in Rainbow II at Nana Plaza. White body, great black hair, small tattoo on her right arm. Is VERY cheerful, full of energy, just a wonderful companion, the same in sex, cant ever get enough. Had her few times, drinks nicely too, Mekhong with coke does miracles with her.

(3) May (19, 45kg, Udon Thani, cup B, Thai-Chinese) found in Rainbow I at Nana Plaza. Pretty shy from the beginning, though THE BEAST in private, I could hardly cope with her, doesnt do anal however. Fucks for free is she likes you :D)

Could add more, but.. Guess this is enough for MY tastes.

Joe Zop

11-12-02, 15:36

FD said >Joe, I read your post in the BKK section. Jet lag insomnia inspired ?

Heck, you should have seen it before I edited it down. As Z and others will attest, and is usually fairly clear in any event, I'm an extremely wordy so-and-so. For the record and for December 13 -- doesn't mean I can't and don't shut up and listen for long periods as well, particularly FTF.

JohnnyVegas -- As far as actual testimony here in regard to your question it's pretty sparse. I recall skinless saying he got a dose but wasn't using a condom, and I don't really recall anyone else. But for the record, I'm suffering and taking medication right now for the dreaded "undefined inflammation" probably from one of my two Bangkok hunnies, and I always, always use a condom for regular boinking but not always, and not in those cases for oral. Which is also why no field reports of substance for me as of yet in the CM section, if anyone was wondering. More after I get safe enough for all concerned.

Picking girls -- hmm, I've had good and bad luck with pretty much all types on the various lists. For me it's just looking for a bit of spark or electricity, a sense of a promise coming from the TG. Probably another reason that even though I rather like the experience I'm not a massive soapy fan -- I can just really never tell what's going to happen.

On t-shirts I'm again with Z. I come from the Groucho Marx school, rather not wanting to be part of any club that would have me, and I tend to scour shops in desperation trying to find ways not to pay to advertise for someone just by using something I bought. (Once paid a poor woman in LOS to remove a logo from a hat -- to my horror it took her three solid hours of work with a razor on my dollar-plus little cap.) Plus to my mind this isn't a whole lot different than Z's cringing about walking with sex workers, as it's still labelling you one way or another. So I'll politely decline to wear one, if you don't mind, though I've absolutely no problem with others going for it.

Baby Huey

11-12-02, 17:32

On the get together.

The shirt idea that Firedick had, it sounds like it has crash and burn. Maybe we can do this on the 2nd annual meeting, if this works at the first annual. I will go with my first idea. I will be wearing a bright yellow shirt that I have, I beleive it says Chaps or Polo in large print on the front of the shirt. Reason I was going with the yellow shirt, it does stand out a little in a crowd. I am 38, 5'-11", 235 pounds, brown hair, clean shaved.

Tonytony,

I like your idea on pass on the information. Some times, it is great knowing the services before go into it and sometimes it is great finding them on your own. Only one more bit of information would be nice, their number, if you know it at the time. I beleive it would be great to pass on info on the great ones and the bad ones, and leave the average one out. Why muddy up the water with the average ones!

Apac Boy

11-12-02, 19:32

i'm saving my cash for a march trip. a trip that ends all trips...its funny, i could fly down for $400 sitting in 1st class if i wanted to but i decided to spend NYE in vegas this year.

adlez, my friend dick johnson will be there and u can shoot the bull wit him. tell him to go get some hunnies at pegasus/narcisus.
lol...

btw, hell yeah i remember the good nuts...it hurt THAT good....

tapioca

Firedick

11-13-02, 06:34

No sweat on the shirts. I thought it might be regarded as a little "sophomorish". Just threw it out.

I've heard good things about Vegas on New years. Have a good one Tap.

Good post Tonytony. I wish I had info like that to relate. Hopefully, after December's trip !

FD

TonyTony

11-13-02, 10:20

Originally posted by jimhart69
Only one more bit of information would be nice, their number, if you know it at the time.

I realize their number would help, will ask for it, and post it here.. I am usually not interested whether she is number 73 or 125 as I rather remember these girls names and faces and bodies :-)

Dick Johnson

11-13-02, 15:13

Oh man, skinless said it, a cap.

I figured choice #2(hunt TG) might be the outcome instead of #1(bring TG). I'll have a TG or GF meet me later if you guys aint hunting cause I sure as hell aint going back to my hotel to masturbate.

Or we can all go to an MP like Poseidon or a go go place.

I've never had hurting balz or leg cramps but otherwise Taps got a point LOL.

"I'm here in the land of smiles to make love not war." DJ

Baby Huey

11-13-02, 15:54

The get together.

Here is the plan, because it sounds like there is some confusing.

We all meet at the Living Room for beers and Bullshit at 7. It is way to early to have a girl hanging on your arms for the night, plus it is hard to talk about pussy, with the pussy sitting right there.

After some beer and bullshit at the Living Room, head down to NEP, and start club hopping, drink some drinks, more bullshit, and find some pussy. Just have a good time and party in one of our favorite Cities. The clubs close at 2.am., that gives alot of time to find the favor of the night!

Lets not make this complexs, it will take the fun out. Lets just have a good time that night!

Firedick

11-13-02, 19:04

JH69,

Exactly ! That's the kinda plan I had in mind.

Dick J. Did you really think that we were just gonna hang out and gossip like chicks ? (Wait a minute, that's kinda what we do here huh ?) I'm not flying 7,000 miles to look at all your sorry asses ! :)

On the "cramp" thing. Have you ever had one and have your girl mistake the agony on your face as ecstasy ? Funny to think about now, but jeez. I've had em start bucking and holding on harder when all I want to do is roll off !

Count'n down...

FD

AGL

11-13-02, 19:47

Originally posted by jimhart69

If you guys have not been to the Living Room before, it is not a Go Go type bar. It is more of a meeting/talking bar, than a party bar. It is a great place to hang out and bullshit. Right now, I know the following people are going to be there, Myself, Firedick, Z, TonyTony, DickJohnson, Stickman, Joe_zop (?), agl (?), dude512(?), plus 3 first timers. Is there anybody I missed? The more, the merrier. See you on the 13th! [/i]

JH69 - i think you may have missed my post to you in the bkk section. there has been allot of dialogue lately so it's now pretty far down in the section.

it's looking more like i will have to be in the states by the end of that week. i am trying to firm up business to finish in japan on the 6th and head down to bkk from there. but i fear i may only be able to stretch the fun out to about the 10th/11th tops. i know, it's so close but the calendar is what it is unfortunately.

anyway i had mentioned in the bkk section to you if you or any other monger brothers will be in bkk / pattaya earlier in the week as well. possibly try for a mini-bash.

just to add my two cents to all - 69 is right about staying single at the living room. it'll be fun to just be a pack of guys for the first few hours. like 69 said, it's an opportunity to get to know each other face to face and share in some really good bull shit. having a chick there would change the dynamics for sure. there's plenty of pussy for later in the evening if you truly HAVE to bust a quick nut.

-agl

Baby Huey

11-14-02, 03:04

agl,

I will be getting into Bangkok on the 10th at 9:10 p.m. from Taipei. I will be out partying I hope by 10:00 at either NEP or Soi Cowboy. Maybe we will run into each other. The morning of the 11th, I am heading down to Pattaya for Business. I will be out on the town in Pattaya, the night of the 11th, after a dinner meeting. The afternoon of the 12th, I will be heading back to Bangkok for 8 days of Thai fun. Also, I beleive Firedick will also be in town, days before the meeting.

AGL

11-14-02, 20:01

sounds good jimhart69. the 10th could be a posibility.

dude512, muffdriver - where are you guys.....?? come on boys, don't drop off.

muff you suddenly stoped posting in the midst of your pattaya trip. you o.k.?

-agl

Firedick

11-15-02, 00:39

Crap news.

I won't be making this trip at all. I'm off duty right now with a back injury and workers comp is not going for me doing my physical therapy away from home. No accountability. Shit, P.T. takes about an hour, the other 23 hours in the day are becoming a major bore !

I hope to see you guys another time, but to push it this time would be sticking my neck out a little too far. Aint gonna risk a career on tail that will be there next time.

Have a great time.

FD

Baby Huey

11-15-02, 00:46

Firedick,

That sucks, tell them you can get physical therapy in Thailand for half the price as in the U.S. and it will not be for only a hour, it will be 24/7.

Hope to see you next time!

agl,

Pick a place to meet on the 10th, at about 10:30, this should be safe, either NEP or Soi Cowboy.

Joe Zop

11-15-02, 03:42

FD -- well, the good news is that LOS will be there waiting for you when you're able, even if this particular motley crew may or may not be. Get that back completely healthy, man, as you'll be bending it to the task over here. Heaven knows I wish I'd been able to be in much better shape when I arrived -- I ended up putting in more than a month of fourteen-hour work days to get everything done so I could be here undisturbed, an idea that didn't completely work (I've spending part of this weekend wrapping up the last remnant) but mostly did. I've managed to walk off the five pounds I put on from just sitting in my chair all day before I left, but my conditioning is still not back to what it was, and I can feel it at times when boffing in the heat :)

Apac Boy

11-15-02, 06:00

FD,
mid march.
website coming soon...

tapioca

Firedick

11-15-02, 07:17

Thanks for the sympathy guys. I'll make it through. :)

I should be back to full duty in January and then I can just burn vacation days !

Joe zop,

I've gained almost 20 lbs since the original injury (February) ! The good news is that I just got word this Monday that I can start lifting weights again and can even play some non contact sports. Is "boffing" consider contact or not ?

Tap,

Website ? Keep us posted.

wildman,

The Kalasin trip isn't until May, so I'm not off that hook yet !

JH69,

Yeah I know...but they wouldn't go for it.

Have a beer for me.

I may not post for a while, since I won't have anything new to report. But I'll still be "lurking".

FD

Joe Zop

11-15-02, 13:53

If it's not contact, it's not boffing -- it's either masturbation or something truly tantric :)

Baby Huey

11-15-02, 15:11

Just if you have not seen the posting before, a group of us that are on the forum all the time are having a get together at the Living Room in Bangkok on December 13, at 7 p.m. Please free to join us.

Here is the plan; we all meet at the Living Room for beers and Bullshit at 7 unaccompanied. It is way too early to have a girl hanging on your arms for the night, plus it is hard to talk about pussy, with the pussy sitting right there.

After some beer and bullshit at the Living Room, head down to NEP, and start club hopping, drink some drinks, more bullshit, and find some pussy. Just have a good time and party in one of our favorite Cities. The clubs close at 2.am, which gives alot of time to find the TG for the night!

The Living Room is located right on Sukhumvit Road real close to Clinton Plaza. Kind of, right in front of Clinton Plaza. The web site for the Living Room is www.thelivingroombangkok.com. If you go into their site, go to contact us, in this section there is map. It is about 8 minute walk from Nana. It is great bar to meet people and talk. It is a bigger place, so it should be a great place to meet.

See you there!

TonyTony

11-16-02, 15:56

Is anybody out there fucking REGULAR TGs, ie. non BGs? I am becoming more and more fed-up by Isaan pussy, but it seems it is NOT so easy to fuck those silky white bangkokian Thai-Chinese ladies. Or, if it is, later problems can be expected. One of my friends in here is an English language teacher and there are some realy cute 15-16 years old babies in his class, but I would expect it could turn nasty if I would fuck some of them. Parents expecting marriage, or something like that. Although, these pupils seems to be willing..

Anybody with any real-life experience of fucking regular young TGs (<20y)??? What problems to avoid? Where to look for them? Places like La Luna, Hard Rock Cafe, etc. seem to be flooded by freelancers. They do fuck for free if they like you, but I would like different kind of girls. THose ones NOT attending places like these. Another question is: would they still be fun?

btw, pussy I fucked last night, took an Extasy pill shortely before, fucked very nicely as usual, but she seemed to lie much less when opening her mouth and speaking. Very funny. Her "brother" now became her former boyfriend she lost her virginity with, her Japanese cool friend that she loves became old ugly sucker, but sending her 30k Baht/month is SOOO cool, and at 3am she called 3 other girls from Nana, her friends, to join our small party, after they were finished with their ST jobs, 1.000 B in their pockets. Spent a really fucking great night. They all brought drinks, and some more shit.. Never mind, the experience was more than worth it:) And didnt cost me a penny:)

Baby Huey

11-17-02, 15:35

Tonytony,

If you are planning to marry a TG, go down the road of the regular TG. But if you are looking for some fun with no comments, this can be a every danagers road. With most TG, free sex means that you and her are a thing, and the target at the end of the road for her is marriage. The only exception to this would be the lucky and rare one-night-stand with TG. Be care going down this road, you can screw with her mind without knowing that you are doing it and they can screw with your mind when this happens.

Basically, if you are in it for the fun, both the regular girls and the working girls will cost you something, either you are giving the girl money or you are dating and paying for everything (food, movie, drinks, etc.) at the end of the day, either girl will cost you money, and one you may not get the end result you are looking for. Remember, the regular girls that I beleive you are thinking about, (the girl next door, like back at home) you will not get her into bed for many dates and when you do, she will be waiting for the marrage date.

If you are planning to marry a TG, then go out with the regular girls and the younger the better, so they have not been in the sex industrial.

Lobo

11-17-02, 23:13

Greetings everyone,

While I have never been to Thailand, I'm posting here to relate my situation with the hope that someone more familiar with the culture/ladies can comment.

I've just concluded a bit of a fling with a TG that I met in Singapore (yes, it was Orchard Towers). I picked her up one night last August and had a great time. We really hit it off - much more than the usual working girls. We had long talks and really laughed and had fun. I know some of these Thai girls excel at the girl friend experience, but I was just in it for fun. I called her the next night, but I had been out with my coworkers and it was late and she was already back in her apartment. She then called me at 4 AM pleading to come over. I told her it was too late (even though she told me she was home, I suspected she had been with a customer and I didn't want to be second, so to speak). Anyway, we hooked up again a few nights later and had just an unbelievable night of wild, unabashed sex. I think it was 4 or 5 shots, I lost track. She ended up staying with me until 3 the next afternoon when I had to go to Malaysia.

I got back the next day and we hooked up again, and she ended up staying with me for the next 4 nights for free. Based upon some of the posts on this board, I assumed she was in it for marriage and quite honestly, while I'm no fool when it comes to these girls, I admit that she was drawing me in (with what my Singaporean friends refer to as Thai voodoo - the spell the TG's hold over western men). During the last few days together, she would occasionally tell me she loved me (usually during sex so I discounted it, but a few times during romantic moments in the pool or walking around Bugis Junction). I was suspicious because of the newness of our relationship, but there was definitely a special bond between us. It was like magic.

I came home and we would talk on the phone every few days. Well, fast forward several months and I'm on the phone with her when she starts crying and tells me she has to admit something to me - she's already married. She tells me she still loves me and she doesn't love her husband, but that he's just come to Thailand to be with her so I have to be careful when I call (he's from Australia). The whole reason she works Orchard Towers is to support her family (3 kids from an old marriage). Then a few weeks later, she tells me I can't call anymore because her husband got drunk and hit her because he's jealous that I call. She's got a few regular businessmen customers who call also. The difference with them is that they pay (big bucks too) for her company. This guy has either got to be the stupidest man alive or really evil. He met her at Orchard Towers also, and he doesn't question that she goes to Singapore and comes home with a wad of money. He thinks she's selling jewelry!

Anyway, I waited about a month and then I happened to be in China, so I figured what the hell, I would call her one more time just to see if she's okay. I talked to her husband and he tells me she's in Singapore. I call her there and she's delighted to hear from me (although she didn't call me). I end up coming to Singapore to be with her. She spends the days with me and the nights with one of her regular customers - at least that's what she told me and I was staying near OT, so I don't think she'd risk seeing me there. Anyway, we had a lot of serious talks about things - I told her I'd like to help her get out of "working", but that I'd need to be with her, that she started working OT to get a husband to support her family, but that she's married and still working because this asshole guy doesn't seem to work too much. Etc. etc. She got pretty upset and cried a lot. Anyway, the last night she stayed with me and we were very tender and affectionate. Then I came back to the U.S. - this is last week. I talked to her the other night and she said she can't talk to me anymore, she's worried about her husband hitting her again. I told her to leave the bastard and I'd take care of her but I think she's scared and/or unable to.

Now the kicker - then she tells me she never loved me, that she was only with me because she felt sorry for me!! Well, think what you will, but I'm not some pathetic fool. I've been with lots of women, had tons of girlfriends, am considered good looking, keep in shape and I make good money. There's nothing to feel sorry for, other than she kind of pulled me in with the voodoo thing. I suspect that she needed to get off the phone - she kept saying he was getting angry at her for talking to me and that he kept giving her dirty looks.

Anyone have any ideas? I just assume that she was really into me - that she thinks she married the wrong man (something she mentioned several times) and that she wanted to be with me. But then she got scared and it just wasn't practical or realistic...but who knows? My friend thinks I was just another guy to her, no different than her regulars. He can't however explain why I didn't have to pay her after the second night. I was with her for many nights and we slept together probably 20 times for free. Maybe she's just confused/scared/unsure what to do. Damned if I know.

Word to the wise - be *very* careful with these women. They are beautiful, incredible creatures who can completely own you! I refused to send her any money. I told her the day she leaves her husband and she's with me is the day all her money problems are over. I suspect she didn't believe me.

Any comments or thoughts are welcome. Sorry for the long post! I'm just a bit confused. Thanks mates.

IveGotBigBalls

11-17-02, 23:20

Originally posted by lobo

Word to the wise - be *very* careful with these women. They are beautiful, incredible creatures who can completely own you! I refused to send her any money. I told her the day she leaves her husband and she's with me is the day all her money problems are over. I suspect she didn't believe me.

Any comments or thoughts are welcome. Sorry for the long post! I'm just a bit confused. Thanks mates.

Whether someone is in the business or not, you've got to be careful. I used to go with a working girl from Tijuana and she'd always have problems that I would help her out with until I wised up and got fed up with the whole thing. I think I was always wise to it, but just let meself get chumped too long for reasons too stupid to mention now. Some things just focused it really tight for me... one is that she and her family lived there entire lives without my help before I met them; when I go away for a few months at a time without giving anyone any help, they were still alive when I got back and yes, begging for more help that they just couldn't do without... the list goes on and on... anyway, be careful... stay safe but have fun too.

Lobo

11-18-02, 00:48

Skinless,

thanks for the post. I agree, they are human, crazy as anyone else and I was thinking more of a movie than a novel ;-). Actually, the second-to-last night that we were supposed to be together (last week), I came home from my meetings and she was gone - disappeared without a trace. Cell phone was turned off and all her stuff was gone. We had big plans for the night, some chili crab and then dancing all night. It was strange because we had amazing sex that morning and she seemed psyched when I left.

Anyway, I spent a very miserable eveing scouring all of the clubs in Orchard Towers for her. I really felt like I was in some movie with the lights and all the girls - a very strange scene when viewed from the perspective of looking for your girlfriend rather than finding a lay for the night!

Anyway, long story short, I reached her the next afternoon after sending her a bunch of SMS messages. She was crying and said that she was sorry - she just had too much to think about (we had just had some pretty heavy conversations about her plight - husband, children, working OT etc.). That's when she came back and we were warmer than ever.

She definitely tamed the wolf for a time, but having ditched me, I'm back on the prowl... The amazing thing is that as I've said, I'm no stranger to this scene or these girls. It was like I was watching myself getting pulled into the voodoo, but I was so happy that I didn't care. Live and learn, eh?

If I ever meet this shithead husband of hers, I'd sure like to kick his ass. Although this kind of thinking isn't usually the way I operate, the knowledge that I was boffing his wife while he was calling her will have to be enough.

Lobo

Chikan

11-18-02, 02:29

Guys,
Normally I keep my private life private.......but I admit, I'm a little stumped on something here. Most of you know I had a trip to LOS recently and spent some time up north in ChiangMai and beyond.
During the course of that trip, I met a 19 yr old TG who works at a "regular Job" (not a bar, not a massage place) with others and her mom. We had a great week and everything was going fine(we danced, we got close etc..). I come home, and the SMS messages are flying back and forth (how much do they cost her per message on the "pay as you go system"in Thailand?). One day, I get a message saying that she can't send me a message after work because her phone card has run out. She lets me know that so I'm fine - no problem.
Then 2 days later, I get a message saying "do not contact me, I do not want you to contact me, good luck with your new love"! I'm like "what the hell"? I call her up and ask her "why did you send that kind of a message"? and she says "what message"? Long story short, she denies sending me that message(because she didn't have a phone card) and swears COMPLETELY that she didn't send it!!! Now, my question is this:
1) Did she send that message intending it for another guy (like she scrolled the phone numbers and hit mine by mistake) OR
2) She did it as a test (a little cruel I think) to see if I'd just roll over and say "ahhhh, forget it" what the hell, "crazy woman" OR
Is it possible some other girl can send me a message from their phone using my "friends" phone # (and then how would they get my #)????? This has really got me stumped because everything was going cool until this little "hic-cup" in the road. Thanks guys.
PS (I can hear adleZ now, shaking his finger
at me!)

Chikan

11-18-02, 06:08

skinless,
As a fan of your adventures.......thanks for the reply. And yes, the deed was done.
adleZ,
I know, I know - but she's NOT a hooker! She's just a "kid"(19 yrs old)... Here comes the retort from Z............. Anyways, sorry Z....I'm starting to feel ashamed of myself...your post is bringing me back to reality fast........I won't write her anymore and will practise the 3F's. I think she sent the message to another guy anyways. Thanks Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU THE MAN!

Chikan

11-18-02, 06:40

adleZ,
Glad about your lunch. I realise what you're doing and it's ok. The advice you give to people (guys) about having relationships with TG's (mainly BARGIRLS) is warranted. It would NEVER cross my mind to have a relationship with a bargirl/massage girl or some other "naughty" girl. But this one is different. Different because she's only 19, she isn't working in a bar and she "was" living with her mom (now has her own place). I know, I know, you'll say, "they're all the same".....anyways, I hear ya. Thanks.

Chikan

11-18-02, 07:05

Freeler,
Yeah, that makes sense too....There was one girl there (in ChiangRai-regular girl) that I banged once (Z would be proud) and then I employed the 3F's. ......then she started to try and find me to go out with her again.....phoning the hotel etc.....I had to move! I kinda wonder if she found out about this 19yr old one, got her #, got my #, and sent that message from her own phone or something else like that.....(sounds too "cloak and daggerish" for a TG). Is it possible to send a message from one phone, but to enter the sending phone's # as a different one as your own? Somehow, I doubt it.......but maybe there's a way.

Dick Johnson

11-18-02, 07:11

'Thailand's greatest hobby is gossip.' F

LOL. That is so true.

Joe Zop

11-18-02, 09:42

Well, here I come to, of course, somewhat agree and somewhat disagree with friend Z. First where I agree -- good heaven, guys, keep your damn heads on straight, and if your dick's straight it's please consider that it's entirely probable that your head is not! I do find it amazing how people get hung up based completely and absolutely on sex.

Lobo -- did you ever consider that she may have dumped you because basically you didn't give her enough money, and you wanted her to change her life, which may well have been working fine for her? And in truth, you don't know squat about her husband, who may never have laid a hand on her and who she may love immensely -- that can just be one more line of stuff from her. Chikan, I've got a bit more sympathy for you, since yours was not a working girl, but look, either you're going to have her as a normal girlfriend (as normal as that's possible in a TG-farang scenario, which is still usually a disaster) or you're not. I didn't see where any of you said a darn thing about the normal kinds of things you'd say about a girl you wanted to spend your life with -- such as there was a brain somewhere in the machinery, such as you had great conversations about X, Y or Z, such as her sense of what was fun to do outside of the bedroom exactly matches your own, you like the same color, etc. Jeez.

Now, all that said, I disagree with Z that the straight-line 3F approach is the absolutely only possible way to go. (Umm, though I agree with the idea that it's the only way for you two, as you've shown your colors.) I believe it is also possible to have longer-term hookups with TGs than Z's 3-hour prescription, have done so in the past, and am probably about to do so right now, as I'm probably going to see the particular TG I've chosen here in CM for a fair duration of my trip here.

But here are my rules for doing something like that:

1. I did not come here planning to move permanently to LOS nor did I plan to take human souvenirs back with me, and there's no way I change my mind while I'm here. Certainly not based on someone I'm screwing.

2. It is clear up front and repeated frequently that I am leaving, that I may choose to leave at any moment, and that if I am at all dissatisfied with how things are going then things will end.

3. Money is always up to me in a scenario that's more than one day, but it will be in the general range of what we agreed upon when we spent the first time together. I've actually no problem in giving or buying things, but they will be practical in nature (big cans of powdered milk for her kid, for example) as opposed to ornamental demonstrations of her worth. (Actually this one is easy for me, as I'd never spend extended time with someone who has that as an obsession.) I will generally insist on paying for things anyway, and my brain keeps track of the total and throttles back if I find it getting to be more than I'd pay just to go out and grab someone new.

4. No one loves anyone. If she insists on saying it then it will result in a conversation about how I think perhaps we should end things, as I do not want her to be hurt when I leave. If she continues to say it then it is over. I will absolutely never feel it, and I most certainly, certainly, certainly will never say it, in or out of bed.

There are others, but that's the gist. Let me note strongly that Z's approach is the safe approach. I can do mine because I'm at heart a selfish heartless bastard, even though I treat people I'm with very well, who looks first after his own interests, and I'm not one to lose my head over women. If you're not truly that type of person, and you'd better know it through practice as opposed to suspicion, then don't go here.

So, for example, the TG I'm hanging with right now is someone who worked at her bar all of three weeks before I met her (I know this to be true because I was told so before I met her by the mamasan, by another girl, and by the girl herself, and a fair portion of the other girls in the place don't know her name, thought they know everyone else's. She's a college student (have seen her ID and helped her with her homework) who speaks excellent English (largely because her pastime of choice is English-language puzzle games to work on her vocabulary.) She's terrified that her parents or college friends will find out what she's doing, which she says is because in her other job she couldn't send money to her parents to take care of her baby. I like talking to her as much as anything else, and she's comfortable to just hang out with at my apartment.

But every single day I mention how many are left until I go, and we've established that she like being with me because I'm nice to her and low-pressure, she gets a dependable income, doesn't have to go to the bar (which she hates because of the drinking and smoke, devout little flowers-for-Buddha woman that she is) and can study in my apartment, which is far quieter and nicer than her little room.

Is there risk here? Yes -- absolutely -- she may get emotionally attached even if I repeatedly tell her not to. I have warned her that the deal's off if she starts to manifest in any way such behavior, or becomes posessive or demanding, but one never knows. If she does, then I'm quite serious -- everything stops. I have and additional buffer in this case as I will be leaving for a while going to other places in LOS and because I'll be changing apartments in a few weeks, so it's easy to truly cut the cord. So far she's just a sweetheart, and I'm enjoying every minute both in and out of bed, but in no way are my emotions here at all in flux -- and guys, that's absolutely the whole issue! And, as I said, you can't just say it, you have to really know it to be true. I like her, I'm physically delighted with her, or I'd not be spending time with her, but she is a hired companion, and when I decide to terminate that scenario, it ends. I'll be pleased if she feels it was a good scene for her, as she appears to, but her pleasure is entirely a secondary side-effect.

As I said, Z's 3F way is absolutely the way to go if you're at all uncertain that you fit the right profile, and perhaps still even if you do. I do not recommend my approach to anyone who is young, who feels they don't have enough love or attention in their life, who may be going through a mid-life crisis, to anyone who does not truly know and understand what pushes their own buttons, and how to control how those buttons are being pushed. My approach works for me -- but it also has meant some few sticky and messy situations from which I've needed to disentangle myself at times, some minor acting out, etc. But because I am clear from the beginning, because I make clear repeatedly thoughout, and because I follow though on my promises to end things if there are any issues, those situations are nipped in the bud and any histrionics or problems are minimal because strong emotional attachments are not allowed to form. It's a business arrangement, it's the kind I like, and it happens with people I like, but it's still all business.

You two guys stay a million miles away from this, please. It will absolutely NOT work for you. Follow Z's advice.

Joe Zop

11-18-02, 11:43

Z, I absolutely love sex, but I also know the difference between sex and love. That is, I think, where so many men, whether on this forum or elsewhere, lose it. As far as my approach, I'm the nicest guy available on the surface and in my actions, and I'm kind and generous to those I'm with, but I'm here with a specific agenda -- to do some work, some relaxing, some exploring and learning, and to get laid. And it's in that order of priority, importance, and emphasis. I think if the getting laid part is the number one part of the agenda it's easier to lose focus. Of course I'm going to feel something while banging some honey, but the question is can I know what it is I feel? It's very often great affection and emotion, but that's related to the chemicals our body cranks out during the act, not the brain or the heart. You gotta know the difference or else you'll get screwed up. I screwed up enough early in my life and my early relationships to know where my danger areas are, who gets to me and how, and what's really going on when that happens.

We can agree to disagree on the quantity versus quality perspective. We have both estimated a 50% satisfaction level if we're lucky -- let's just say my approach is to up my odds by staying with a partner who works for me. You approach is that the numbers don't matter so much if there are enough numbers. Mai bpen rai. We've had this discussion before -- for me it's about the quality of the whole experience, and there is some risk involved in that process as compared to the 3Fs, which is why I certainly don't recommend it to everyone. There are, however, obviously folks here who have made it work in addition to me.

As far as December -- the 13th is still up in the air for me, and I'll probably not be certain until near the end of the month. Still planning on a swing by Korat at some point, however.

Joe Zop

11-18-02, 14:23

Originally posted by skinless
Joe: You shudda paid for her when she was bleeding. Why not? What are you trying to prove by being a really cheap Charlie? Did you tell her about the bj bars? (yuck). She seems a nice kid. How does she square being a single Thai mom and building a career? What kinda college is she at besides the College of Hard Knocks you and others are giving her? Ther is no way she will survive the pounding she has to do to earn her monthly 5k bt. Shit, I would pay her that to do my laundry. It will be interesting to see her slumming it in 10 years' time. I was thinking of retirning there, open up a little brothel and be its main customer, just hire 2 or so full timers, pay them to bonk, cook, laundry and housekeep. How much would that cost. Joe? 20k bt a month? I might do that next year.

Actually, Skinless, I did pay partially for her while she was bleeding -- I paid her barfines while she couldn't work so she didn't have to pay them herself, and gave her the cash I'd have given her for the night when she went home to begin with, as it was clearly no fault or plan of hers. (That's part of the reason she came bounding over like a puppy when I came back in.) I'd likely have done more had I actually spent any time more than a couple hours in the bar and an hour over food with her, and if we're together when it happens next month I'll pay for the whole shot. I bought a bunch of stuff for her kid when she went to her home yesterday, such as an extra huge tin of powdered milk. (And, for what it's worth, I have absolutely no boubt that the gratitude for that small investment will manifest itself in any number of delightful ways over the next couple of days, given what I know of her character.)

No, I definitely didn't tell her about the blowjob bars, given that the whole concept of oral in either direction, or anything more elaborate than doggy-style, is alien to her at this point. She is a nice kid, as are so many, dumped by her one Thai boyfriend when she got preggers, and the whole scene is something where she's completely out of her depth at this point. (She missed her drink quota for the first month because she can't stand to ask strangers for anything, and only made her bar fine quota because I've paid for the last week or so. I'm sure she got a fair number of those bar fines simply by being new meat, as she's pretty shy, and she begged me to make sure I fined her a few days ago because there's a 70-plus guy who's wanted her every Friday who just creeps her out.) Still, she's also someone very bright, with a clear plan, simply trying to figure out a way out of money problems toward a future as a marketing major at one of the CM Colleges, and determined to do what she has to do to make it happen. So, yes, I've got a soft spot for her and her ambitions, as I know plenty of people doing similar kinds of things only with different jobs, and that adds up to quality time for me, and a bit of a respite for her in getting used to the whole scene by starting out spending a bunch of time with one customer as opposed to hustling for a new face every night. In a lot of way, your "private *****house" concept is pretty much what I'm looking at here, except that since I'm only here for a couple of months it's not exactly going to be practical for her to make any long-term plans. But I'm off to see her in an hour or so, to hear about the family visit and the crying that entails. Nothing like getting to be a comforter for good GFE sex. (And that sounds far more cynical than I actually am about the situation -- I'm genuinely happy that she got to see her kid for the first time in two-plus months.) I think you know exactly what I mean, Skinless.

And, for what it's worth, nothing I've said here at all conflicts with my previous posts -- I'm not marrying or falling in love with her, and there are clear delineations on our relationship. In fact, in this instance, those are as critical for her as for me, which is why I think this arrangement might just work for a while.

JuiceSpike

11-18-02, 14:37

Skinless,

The Eden Club is up for sale. 20 million bt. Interested?

juice

JuiceSpike

11-18-02, 14:48

Skinless,

LOL. I though you wanted to open a biz there....?

It has been a week since I got back from my trip to Bangkok. I was there for 3 weeks for pleasure and business. I will not write any reports as I had an incredible time that if I wrote about it no one would beleive me. Sometimes, life is a lot stranger than fiction. This last trip was one of those strange but incredible situations.

juice.

Joe Zop

11-18-02, 18:34

Skinless -- ok, I'll stop fully quoting your posts, since you want to disappear, but unless you allow me to at least quote the specifics of what I'm replying to I'm just going to ignore you, as it drives me completely crazy to not be able to reread a thread and make any sense of it. And I regularly reread threads to make sure I'm not mistaking something someone has said. So this is a one-time reply pending permission to do some quoting.

I'm not so sure about the marketing thing, as I think in this world it's a bit different than in the states -- it may well end up translated as product hawking, which could happen. She's very articulate and nothing about her says bar girl at this point, though obviously all can change. We'll see what will happen -- I'm giving it a little while longer to make sure things are cool, and then I may just hire her for the rest of my time here, pay her tuition (which is a big worry for her and pitifully small) and see what happens. And I agree with your analysis regarding drowning. I'm willing to take a small shot and lend a hand to some extent, but I'm under no illusions, either. But since we get along very well and it's low-key like I prefer it, there may be a win-win scenario available.

And give me a break on the BJ bars, willya? It was a one-shot, and not something I'd do again, as it's pretty solidly out-of-character. Probably too much reading about your 200bt hookers lining up outside your door and making BJ gestures...

JuiceSpike

11-18-02, 19:16

Freeler,

Yes, reality beats fiction but when you present it as real no one beleives. When you present it as fiction everyone beleives. Go figure.

Yeah, 20 mil is high for Eden. I read somewhere the rumor that Marc wants to sell. It just a rumor.

juice.

Apac Boy

11-18-02, 20:32

u guys know if digital cameras are cheaper in thailand or more expensive than everywhere else? i'm looking for brand name ones like minolta or canon...my guess is that it's more expensive since none of those cameras are made in thailand...but i'm hoping for black market ones....

tapioca

Cebu Local

11-18-02, 23:14

Guys
have been away from the board for a while,since I had been putting away 12-16 hour days working on my business,which got affected by the osama lovers.but anyway back to the topic.I have been reading all the posts and I have a question for Z,
Based of his trip home to Ohio,American women are huge and unattractive and have real attitude problems,right Z,but then you pound on a poor guy for getting into a relationship with a normal TG,you advice everyone to avoid TG s normal or bargirl.for anything beyond a 1 hour fuck,right.But we realize that for many people,they do not want to 3f their whole life and want a relationship so that they can have a life partner,settle down etc.So who do the hell do have this with if you find american women huge and have an attitude problem,you say that all TG s cant be trusted because of their attitude.So Z this a point If a guy wants a relationship ,who the hell does he have it with ??,remember that most guys kinda look for a partner at some point in their lives,So anyway I respect your viewpoint and your lifechoice but should cut people who want to have a RELATIONSHIP with a NORMAL,NON WORKING TG some slack,regards

Apac Boy

11-18-02, 23:15

yep..tks freeler..prices are indeed cheaper in the US.

i can contribute 200,000 bht for eden and in addition to getting 10% equity, i want to be the human resources director.

we need 9 more guys...come on people...lets do dis.

tapioca

Cebu Local

11-18-02, 23:56

Tap
check your math again,10% of 20 million baht is 2 million baht not 200,000.almost 45K US not 3.5K US.But seriously if you get a group together,count me in as an investor for 50K US,I figure that it cant hurt to diversify my business a bit regards

Cebu Local

11-19-02, 00:12

Guys
correction 4.5K US not 3.5K US,should have checked my own math.seriously about Eden,some of the regulars on the Philippine board know me,I invest in a bunch of things,never did a ho house before,sounds real interesting,freebies and product testing for directors????regards

Firedick

11-19-02, 00:40

Tap,

A couple years ago I did some homework on dig. camera prices. The conclusion that I came to was: if you absolutely must have the latest technology, with all the "bells and whistles" buy in Singapore. But if you can settle for 8 month to a year old (unused) unit, the discount houses (Best Buy, Fry's etc...) are the most cost effective.

I never considered the black market, but I would guess that Freeler is right about them being copies.

FD

Joe Zop

11-19-02, 02:33

Freeler -- my plans haven't changed a great deal, to be honest. I'm finding that I'm getting good work done in CM, so I probably will spend a bit more time around here, but that doesn't at all mean I'll not be moving around. When I head back north from BKK next week I'll be stopping off in a place or three.

Skinless -- I bet nothing on it; I figure it's a relatively cheap investment that could pay off nicely. Time will tell, and if it's a mistake it won't be my first or last. Frankly, if I pay off her school, bar fines, give the monthly money for the family, and some little extra, I'm still at where I'd be for a different TG every night here. We'll see. As you know, I've no disagreement with you whatsoever on Freeler. I simply regret that you and he let the noise get to you, as you've been among my favorite posters. I confess I still don't see the logic of deleting, though.

Wildman -- not to worry, I'm getting plenty out of my trip. Lots of my work is done at the computer, part of it online, and I've been doing a lot of it of late, but that will drop off next week as I move around a bit, and I'll be more silent. And I'm quite comfortable with people disagreeing or criticizing with me -- doesn't bother me in the least, especially from long-time jousting partners who I know and respect. To me, most folks here have a tendency to just take it all a bit too seriously -- we need to try to bring a bit more jai dee back to the whole LOS section, IMHO.

JuiceSpike

11-19-02, 03:37

About Eden....
Who ever buys it should change the girls... 98% of them are ugly, mechanical and boring.

About Thai Women...
I find many of them to be sluts, they love to fuck money or no money involved, anytime of the day or night. I love that place. Bangkok is a horny city, it's so easy to get laid that after a few days there talking to hookers feels very normal. If you aver get a hooker with an attitude tell her that you would double the money to fuck her then walk away.

juice

Apac Boy

11-19-02, 06:16

damn, missed the math by 1 zero...shit, can i still be the director of human resources with only 1% equity?

i think we should go public on this too...i bet we can sell these Eden shares like hotcakes.

so far,

NAME POSITION EQUITY
Cebu Local CEO 10%
Tapioca Talent Manager 1%

come on people, we're not buying this for the girls inside ...everybody knows they ain't exactly the best looking ones inside. we're buying the brand name.

tapioca

JuiceSpike

11-19-02, 14:31

About Thai Hookers and Customers
On my last trip I did a little survey with go-go girls and freelancers to find out what they liked in a customer. A handsome guy was not number one, two or three. Here is the list hookers like about a customer:

1. He speaks well. (I think this has to do with being pleasant)
2. He has a good heart (tips well?)
3. He fucks short time (comes fast, Adlez style)
4. He tips well.
5. He is handsome.
Many of the girls prefer older guys because they last short and are not pounding them for hours. Many said that handsome guys are arrogant and don't tip at all.

Best Place to Find New Girls in Bangkok
Freelance beer gardens. New girls come every week. Also some go-go bars but finding them is a little more tricky.

Best GO-GO Bar in Bangkok
Angel Witch in Nana. Great shows and atmostphere. Early in the night, the best girls are still available. But, there are a couple of girls there that want to charge 2,000 for short time. Bullshit.

Second Best Place Go-Go Bar in Bangkok
Playskool in Nana. Great aatmosphere and some good looking girls. New girls as of November, one is 17 and should not be there. She is a cunning little *****. Mamasan knows about it and is not doing anything. But, I heard they got raided by the police and the 17 year old is gone. Oooops.

Best Short Time Hotel in Bangkok
The Play Boy or better know as BT hotel. 240 bt for 3 hours, clean full of mirrors rooms.

Best Way to Start a Conversation with a Freelancer
Ask her what her short time charge is then ask her name, where she is from and how long she has been in the biz.

Best Totally Nude Show in a Go-Go Bar
Suzy Wong in Soy Cowboy. Totally nude girls (there was a Japanese guy one night that was drooling sitting right by the stage). The girsl are 98% ugly but they are all naked. Naked girls dance 3 or 4 times a night.

Best Way to Treat A Pro Hooker
Treat her like a toy but tell her she is very sexy and she will respect you. They love to be sluts but they will deny it.

Best Way to Treat a New Hooker
Treat her like a toy but tell her she is very sexy and she will respect you. They dreamed of being sluts and now they can show you.

juice

Dana

11-19-02, 15:50

I just got back from a Loy Kathrong festival here in Bangkok, and it was really cool. Too bad the damn canal boats sped through and blew everybody's candles away.

Anyway- sorry juicespike, but I'm sitting here in the room with 3 girls who disagree with your post completely. They were really cracking up about it. They are all under 20 and all 3 work in Nana plaza. I'll summarize what they are telling me.

All 3 say handsome is always no.1, and they are never happy to go with old guys. However, older men almost always pay extra and the boom boom is usually kept to a minimum. They all agree about the short time thing though. The sooner they can get back to their apartments and some papaya salad the better. One girl is telling me to write that they hate to be taken on trips outside of Bangkok. Also, one of the girls here says she likes Japanese men because they have so much money and pay more(has anyone else noticed the bargirls that TRY to look japanese?), but the others don't like them. I'm pretty buzzed right now, and I don't know if this info is useful to anyone, but I thought it was pretty funny and just wanted to give you the info straight from the girls themselves!
One more thing, Thai television shows (movies and music too!) are the worst in the entire world! I'm 100 percent convinced of that.

Dick Johnson

11-19-02, 16:01

Skinless, I gotta check out Japan again then.

Tap, I might have an extra digital camera for sale. I love it. (Of course very convenient in not having to take it to processing when you got pics of naked women in there.) You're working too hard on your MDA, I mean MBA that might have made you miss out the extra zero.

Frankly I think it's(Eden) way overpriced. Why don't you start a Tapioca A Go Go in BKK or Pattaya instead?

2003 Tap gets MBA. Moves to BKK. Works various jobs.
2004 Comes up with cash and starts Tapioca A Go Go.
2005 Marries his manager/accountant.
2006 Opens 2nd shop, Berries A Go Go.
2007 Tapioca Jr arrives.

Juice-'Adlez style' LOL.

Dick Johnson

11-19-02, 16:03

Cebu you raised an interesting point Nov18th 1414hr.

TonydaSnake

11-19-02, 18:50

I hope everyone can see the futility (stupidity?) of presenting top 10 list of what Thai ho's look for in their targets. It is fun reading, but no suprise that different interviewers get different answers.

Dana- you had a buzz on so you have an excuse. Your interview was BS and full of stereotypes. What is an old guy? Five years older than you? And do you know anything about Thai culture? Sounds like it--not!! You seem to have a bias for the younger ho's (most do) but is that a fair sampling. Come on...! I could go on but what's the point.

Juicespike- you sound a little more scientific in your approach, but one *****monger talking to BG's just can't be scientific. Period. How can you control their lies. How can you control your own bias and flaws interpreting what they really mean? Not possible.

Anybody want a manly challenge for the sake of the TRUTH? when you get together in Bangkok in Jan. pick a young stud (20-25yo), a well presented middle ager (35-45yo), an old timer (60+), and a fat stinky German (that's an inside wsg joke, and no offense meant) from your ranks and have a competition. If you can't find those groups represented than use "hire a *****monger" services Ltd. Then hit some spots and all compete for the same ho by telling one of her friends that your all interested in the same score. First do it offering the same money, and then try it on someone else with the stud paying 800 bhat and the old timer paying 2000 bhat.

Apac Boy

11-19-02, 19:20

DJ, its kewl..i already bought the one i want online...canon elph s200, $250...

no mia noys...i want a gi.. i think mia noys are for old farts.

tapioca

JuiceSpike

11-19-02, 19:27

Dana,
You got 3 young girls in your room and you are buzzed and they tell you handsome is number 1. They are also telling you that YOU are handsome and their number one. Hope you didn't overpay.

Tony,
There is nothing stupid about writing what I have found out when asking Thai girls what their preferences are. No, there is nothing scientific about my findings nor do I claim to be an expert. I just write what I have found out. It is not about testing their lies either. For me when talking to a Thai hooker is about being personable and upfront, if they respect you they will tell you what they think. I don't try to control my own bias either because I could care less what they prefer to fuck. You are right, smelly guys or drunk guys pay more not because of their looks but because they girls can ask for more and the guy will pay more to just get a piece of ass.

Dick,
You are right.

Best Way to Find About the Thai Hooker Scene
Make one of them your girlfriend.

Second Best Way to Find About the Thai Hooker Scene
Pay for their time but don't fuck them and ask a lot of questions.

Best Way to Waste Money but Have a Great Time
Go to Thailand.

juice

Mojosaur

11-19-02, 20:47

You motofly?

TonydaSnake

11-19-02, 21:55

juicespike,

I enjoyed reading your post so nothing here is personal; and I also like to ask BG's their likes, dislikes and preferences. But after they blah, blah, blah...I lift one leg and slap my head to knock all the crap out that just flew in. Simply put, this topic about what TG's really think has come up before, and like before, it is entertaining but meaningless (better than stupid?).

There are common sense ways that one respects about any human being and that works well with TG's too.

But where are all the *****mongers getting freebies, or 500 bhat anytime, anyplace, anything deals with attractive BG's. These guys may be on to something, but funny how they never seem to exist.

And no, a freebie isn't paying 3,000 bhat one day and getting the next day absolutely free!

The rest of us are paying our 1,000 bhat, give or take, and thinking to ourselves, "I think she realy likes me..."

Cebu Local

11-19-02, 22:32

Z,still waiting for your response to this point ??,remember you pointed out ALL TG normal or bargirl and ALL american women.I believe not everybody wants to constantly 3f for the rest of their lives.At one point many people pick a partner,but if not ALL thai women and ALL american women who then ???.I mean Daddy Z met Mommy Z to make Z right.

Originally posted by cebu local
Guys
have been away from the board for a while,since I had been putting away 12-16 hour days working on my business,which got affected by the osama lovers.but anyway back to the topic.I have been reading all the posts and I have a question for Z,
Based of his trip home to Ohio,American women are huge and unattractive and have real attitude problems,right Z,but then you pound on a poor guy for getting into a relationship with a normal TG,you advice everyone to avoid TG s normal or bargirl.for anything beyond a 1 hour fuck,right.But we realize that for many people,they do not want to 3f their whole life and want a relationship so that they can have a life partner,settle down etc.So who do the hell do have this with if you find american women huge and have an attitude problem,you say that all TG s cant be trusted because of their attitude.So Z this a point If a guy wants a relationship ,who the hell does he have it with ??,remember that most guys kinda look for a partner at some point in their lives,So anyway I respect your viewpoint and your lifechoice but should cut people who want to have a RELATIONSHIP with a NORMAL,NON WORKING TG some slack,regards

JuiceSpike

11-19-02, 23:41

Tony,
I know is not personal. Last time I checked this posting is called "Thai Women - Opinion & Advice" so I post my opinions and observations and I don't think posting about Thai hookers is meaningless otherwise this section would not exist.

You rambled on about freebies: what exactly are you trying to say???

juice

Baby Huey

11-20-02, 01:01

On subject on TG, what they like and what they dislike about the customer, i.e. us. You can get 100s answers to that question, just like us, we have 100s of answer why we like and dislike them. The bottom line is you need to know what the girl is in the club scene for; most of them are in it for the money for themselves and their family. But others are in it for a possible ticket out of Thailand, out of being poor, or out for an adventure. Depending on the girl's situation, will depend on her answer to this question.

Bottom line, I agree with Juciespike on the situation with Dana; you are in a room with 3 girls that probably have not been paid for services yet and they will say anything to make you happy.

My experience with the girls working in the clubs in Thailand and Asia; is most of the girls are looking for the best time they can get and make some money at the same time. If you make the time more fun for them and they enjoy their time with you, thus they will enjoy the time and they will make you happier at the end. I am putting this together with many, many years of playing in Asia.

Z will not agree with this at all, because of the 3f. My experience at 19, fit, good looking in Asia and now 38, O.K. looking, and little heavier now is no difference. Age and Looks does not matter most of the time. Now if you are Brad Pitt or Grandpa Jones, thus the girl would go with Brad Pit if the money was the same. But remember money changes everything, especial for TG. Treat the girl good, she will treat you the same, no matter what you look like or how old you are.

Dana

11-20-02, 04:20

Actually, adleZ is right about all of this. It really doesn't matter what they think unless you wanna marry one of them or something. Also, I was pretty messed up last night, but I just wrote what the girls were telling me. I know it wasn't completely accurate, but it was funny at the time to hear their opinions after I read juicespike's post to them. Sorry if I upset anyone.

I didn't pay for any of them either as was suggested. I live in Asia, and come to Bangkok at least once a month so I have lots of friends here. Two of the girls have live-in boyfriends so I wasn't trying to pretend I was some stud.

Also, I know more about Thai culture than most of the Thai bargirls I meet. As for Thai television, it's true, everyone is always crying, yelling, or over-emoting in some way. Every other show seems to have a woman getting slapped, hit, or punched. I guess they think it's acceptable behavior?

Joe Zop

11-20-02, 06:05

Whether this is a worthwhile discussion or not depends, I think, on its purpose. If the purpose is to get into the heads of these women in the interest of pursuing a long-term relationship, then I agree with Z. (I think, given Z's stated preference for and usual frequenting of massage places this is a completly understandable perspective, as well, given that conversation and what the girl wants or likes is basically not much on the menu.) However, if the interest is to manage to set yourself up for the best boink you can get, particularly when looking at the bar scene, how to get the girl you're interested in willing to go with you and do what you want, then I think this is a valid topic. The issue is basically how to get the best bang (pardon the pun) for the buck by understanding a bit how you are perceived and how to optimize that.

Juice and Freeler's comments about being perceived as having a good heart can definitely make a difference in the sense of trust the girl is going to have, and thereby her willingness and pliability. If she's uptight about you, then it's going to affect her outlook and very possibly her performance. (Something I think again is somewhat less an issue in soapys, as she's in a controlled environment.) I've also found it invaluable in some cases with mamasans, though less so in the truly hardcore busy meat market places than the smaller and quieter ones. I find I often am set up with TGs new to the scene, and I put it to the whole good heart aspect of the mamasan wanting to let the girls get used to the scene in as easy a way as possible.

I'd also add to the list, perhaps as a sub-area of the whole handsome side of things (which is for the most part out of all of our control) the issue of dressing neatly -- and I don't mean wearing a suit and tie by any stretch, simply being clean and not looking as though you've just rolled out of bed (with someone or alone.) Neatness does count in LOS, and not only in the pay-for-play scene. I don't particularly go out of my way in this regard -- just long pants and a clean shirt that mesh a bit in color, and end up getting comments all the time. Combine this with the perception of a good heart and it just makes things simpler, in my book. Oh, and I'd make sure I add humor to the list -- a bit of teasing and joking goes a long way. Mock horror at being told a TG is in her mid-to late twenties and telling her you are now very sad because she is obviously lying to you because she simply cannot be that old can get things rolling nicely...

Firedick

11-20-02, 06:06

Jim, that's "treat the girl 'well' ". :)

TonydaSnake

11-20-02, 09:14

People do read this forum who have never been to Thailand and would like to go. They want useful information.

People with a little more experience are looking for laughs and valuable gems of info like great places, girls, prices.

The former group would just be confused or mislead by the various "lists" of BG's perspectives, and the latter group will already know the BG's perspectives.

e.g. I am never going to say to a Bangkok virgin don't buy that ticket because your old and that is "number 5" on some BG's list of preferences.

and juicespike...you weren't listing your opinions as you said but the BG's opinions. The reason I rambled on about "freebies" was to try and inject a little humor into a topic by straying off topic a bit. But there was a tie in since we would all love to hear from that farang who is getting honest freebies or 500bhat LT from good looking Bangkok ho's. I agree with you on Angel Witch gogo having the best looking girls. I like to warm up at the two or three pathetic gogos to the left of Angel Witch before going there. They are small and I was usually the only one there. I had alot of fun since the BG's were bored and desperate. One even gave me BJ (paid for of course)on premise. But most farang at best just poke their heads in the door because these girls aren't attractive like in Angel Witch.

TonyTony

11-20-02, 09:23

Originally posted by juicespike

Best Way to Treat A Pro Hooker
Treat her like a toy but tell her she is very sexy and she will respect you. They love to be sluts but they will deny it.
Best Way to Treat a New Hooker
Treat her like a toy but tell her she is very sexy and she will respect you. They dreamed of being sluts and now they can show you.
juice

Very funny and true this one. As a side-note, when choosing from go-go bars, I always fuck only 18-19 years old girls, which are not being in business longer than some 6-12 months (lower than 6 months means they hardly learned how to fuck, thus they are NOT satisfactory fuck-partners). After spending their life, for 17 or so years, in rice fields of Isaan, they are SO excited they can fuck handsome, young americans, europeans, etc., they dont play anything in sex. They simply love it. They love to fuck. It is the biggest fun they ever had!! If they are so young and pretty, all those cool actors they have seen and dreamed about touching (not fucking at that stage of their life) when looking at Hollywood movies are now available to them, or at least, people looking quite similar to them. They can definitely make a choice of NOT fucking old fat Germans, and they do. Although they may sometimes fuck an old fat japanese guy, for a money, while taking an exctasy pill to endure it (and just because he will probably come within 2-3 minutes and tip her really well and let her go), mostly they choose the guy they REALLY want to fuck, eventhough money received will be smaller. Tip excluded, but fun, great sex, and few orgasms for *her* included.

guys "in love" that posted before (like that dude..512), they make NO favor to these girls by keeping them to themselfs for few weeks, it is the most boring period for these girls. ;)

We all want to fuck nice *NEW* pussies every other night, and the same applies to them. They want new handsome guys. Being hos means they do not have to face any moral issues, any good-girl dilemas, they may fuck freely, express their sex freely. And they do it!

One of the girls I know has been e.g. offered a "good-life" in Singapore, all expenses, lodging, etc., paid, plus about 1.500 USD/month as her petty-cash, and she refused it. She felt, it would be a MAJOR bore for her. Spending the time in one apartment, waiting for one man to come and fuck her every night. Just one man.. No fun included. While she can make the same money at Nana and have fun, she will go for this way of life. At least for now.

Older hos, those >23(?), have surely different approaches, but that is exactly why I never fuck them :D) Too old and hardcore for me!

JuiceSpike

11-20-02, 09:49

At least I got you guys talking about the topic instead of shopping tips...

Dana,
You are full of shit. You had 3 girls from Nana in your room and you didn't pay??? Did they pay for their own bar fines too??
You wrote: "Also, I know more about Thai culture than most of the Thai bargirls I meet" What?? Are you still drunk?

You sound like the typical tourist that goes to Thailand every month and still lives in a bubble. The hookers got your ego wrapped in their pussies and you don't even know it.

Adlez,
I had a great time on my last trip. I find what Thai hookers think interesting (not all the time) because to me the more I know the better fucking I get. I had some very good experiences with multiple girls and in all kinds of combinations.

Joe,
Good observations and very true. Yes, humor goes a long way...

Best Way to get a Thai Hooker Forget About Money
Slap her ass a few times. Some will protest but all will perform great. (They watch Thai TV)

Second Best Way to get a Thai Hooker Forget About Money
Tell her you like her a lot then slap her ass a few times. This actually works better but you have to know how to lie very well because they are experts at it. Some will protest but all will perform great.

Best Thai Hooker Marketing Tool to get Farangs to go to Thailand every Month
Tell men they are very handsome whether they are or not. It works all the time.

juice

Dana

11-20-02, 11:39

Full of shit? That's really pretty rude since you don't know anything about me. I didn't have to pay any barfines since none of the girls were working last night for the holiday, and I always stay in this one girls apartment when I come to Bangkok. She's my close friend and has been for a long time. I haven't been into a go-go bar in a long time actually.
Like I said, I live in Asia now and I use to live in Bangkok before, so I'm not a typical tourist at all.

When I said "I know more about Thai culture than most bargirls" I was just joking around, but If you live here then you know most bargirls know how to get from their apartment to the bar they work at, and maybe a few shopping centers and that's about it. It seems to me like this juicespike guy is way to serious about all this stuff. Just have some fun and relax guys. No need to get uptight because someone posts something stupid on a message board. And there's really no need to say that I'm "full of shit"!

TonydaSnake

11-20-02, 14:34

now in the red corner...juicespike...and wearing black...dana

guys, I take full blame for the tense posts of late since I started in with the negative vibes by whining too much about what you said thai ho's think about farang...

but take the good with the bad, the Thailand forum kicks ass over other very boring forums I have checked out

as has been said before, If we had met in a bar, say angel witch, instead of WSG it would have been all laughs and nodding heads in agreement. But, this is a forum, and frustration can be a factor...

hey, [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) on me, I got thick skin like a rhino!

To tony tony, that is some of the most fascinating thought I've ever read on WSG! There is no doubt some BG's can get really wet and juicy, so something must be going on. We spend so much energy dissing ourselves that we forget that BG's can make their own choices and, hey, they might enjoy it sometimes.

JuiceSpike

11-20-02, 14:37

Dana,
Sorry for hurting your feelings... Speaking of taking it too seriously and posting shit in here, why don't you tell us of your experiences with having a bar girl be your close friend.... What is it like? Do you get freebies?

Speaking of having 3 girls in your room... Last October 3 ex go-go girls met in my hotel room to socialize and drink water (yes, pure bottle water) and it crossed my mind what would it take to take turns with them... Well, money would not work becuase they are out of the biz. One was married, the other one is getting marry in December and the other one is waiting to be asked to be married. One I know well, the other one was roomate with the one I know well and the other one I have met 2 times before. The 3 girls were chatting away as normal women do. I have no idea really what they were saying because my Thai is limited but I did get some translation and understood a little of the conversation. Mostly they talked about their boyfriends/husband, clothes, hair and whatever else women talk about.... The most pretty one (the already married one) noticed I was getting restless and out of the blue asked me:"so, which one of us you want to start with?" I answer: "you." They all laughed and stared at me. After an ackward moment one of them said "we are just kidding...." I said "I'm was not..." They went back to their conversation and that was it. I excused myself, told them to have fun and went out to get a bite to eat at Foodland....

Best Place for a Quick Bite in Bangkok
Foodland (soi 5). Quick and cheap meals 24 hrs/day. The only thing is the eating counter is small and you are cramped to the person next to you on both sides. Great place to start a conversation with a stranger.

juice

Baby Huey

11-20-02, 15:44

Dana, are you coming to the get together in December, since you are in Bangkok once a month?

The bottom line you are paying for something, if you are staying with the same girl everytime you are in Bangkok. You may not be handing her the money as a payment for services, but you are paying for something. Rent, food, cloths, something, nothing is free. Do not be kidding us. I have been playing in Asia for to many years to beleive you are getting a long term freebie. Yes, you can get lucky a get freebies here and there, but not all the time.

But that my two cents.

Dana

11-20-02, 16:43

Hey guys, I didn't wanna come across like a prick. As for my relationship with my bargirl friend, of course it
started off like they all do. I bf'd her thinking it was just gonna be a quick thing, but we really had a great
time together and wound up being really good friends and now I guess she's my part-time girlfriend. I'm not as much into the f*ck and forget thing, because I do like the GFE personally. It's just more fun for me that way, and I enjoy the sex more.
I really hate the fact that she's still in the barscene, but since I can't seem to change her mind I just have to deal with it. I'm not looking to get married or anything, and since I do live in a different country I don't take it seriously at all.
Anyway, She does have some French boyfriend that sends her money every month, but he hasn't been back to see her since April! The poor guy must really be going broke because he can't even afford to call her very often.
I've never had any threesome or even twosome offers with her or anything like that, so it's pretty boring as far as that goes. These bargirls are very possessive when it comes to customers, and even more with boyfriends.
As far as the "freebie" thing goes, I do pay for everything when we go out and for food and stuff. I have bought her some jeans and shit like that too, but it still winds up being cheaper than even renting a hotel room. The pain in the butt for me is trying to sneak away to other places. It's impossible for me to even go to Pantip plaza by myself because she doesn't trust me at all. I used to go to Phuket for a few days before I would even come to Bangkok, but she busted me on that one a while ago by checking my passport.
Like I said, I haven't been in any Thai go-go bars in awhile. I did spend a few days in Angeles city in the Phillipines last month, but wasn't impressed at all. The girls are just fat and ugly overall.

Enough about that:
My Bangkok tip for the day: Do yourself a HUGE favor and go to a place called Muang Boran(the ancient city).
It's one of the coolest things around Bangkok. I went today and the place was empty, so I'm guessing not too many tourists go there. Wear some cool clothing and rent a bike at the front gate.
the website is www.ancientcity.com

I would love to make that Dec. 13th date, but I can't come back that soon. I will be here for two full weeks at the end of December\beginning of January though.

Joe Zop

11-21-02, 05:39

Ok, gentlemen, I thought I'd relate something that happened last night, since I think it ties pretty well to this topic. Be forewarned that it will probably be my usual interminable length!

I walked into my favorite little Night Market beer bar here in Chiang Mai, (it was packed, since in CM they do three days of Loi Krathong and this was the last night) said hello to the owner and was greeted by one of the TGs I know, who was far more drunk and boisterous than usual. She grabbed another girl, made her sit down next to me, and said, "This her first night, you nice man, you explain to her, ok?" and then off she went.

Well, this was not only this girl's first night, this was her first hour, and I was pretty much the third person and first farang she'd talked to there. (She didn't even know who the owner was until I pointed her out, and was then very embarrassed about it.) Her nickname is Joi, and her proper name, which I've forgotten, she said translates as "Equation." So she was a joy equation or equation of joy, and I must say that was very true. Nineteen, gorgeous, a native of Chiang Mai, pretty good English since she'd studied it in school. She's trying to get her high school diploma so she can study to be a tour guide (something, as it is a truly informed plan, that she thinks will take her "about two or fours years" of study.) Has had basically one Thai boyfriend who she makes clear she's not sorry is gone.

I should note here that I really like this little bar, so I studiously avoid barfining anyone here, as the girls here are terribly possessive and if one is mad at you they all are. The girl who sat me down with Joi has offered to be my "temporary wife when you are without wife" and every time I say the word barfine she is there saying, "you barfine me, right?" If I really was going to, she'd be high on the list, as she's terribly attractive, my type as well, but she's also spent most of the last two years abroad with different guys, has four sending her money, and you can feel a bit of steel and a heavy capacity for brooding beneath her bouncy exterior. 23-year-old TGs seems to be my theme in CM this trip for some reason (Any numerologists in the house?) and she's another. So, as I say, I like this bar, want to keep coming here as it's relatively close to me, and since CM is a rather small town in terms of the monger scene, I don't want to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) in the waters where I swim and so do my looking elsewhere. The reason I bring this up will be clear in a moment.

So I'm talking to Joi, and it's very quickly apparent she has completely no idea how this whole scene works. I buy her one drink (she "not drink, really" but has orange juice and some kind of whiskey) and I thank her for letting me be her first. She gets really upset until I explain I was talking about the drink, and was making a joke. When I offer another after a while she refuses. I explain to her that this is one of a couple ways she makes money, since she makes 30baht per drink, and then do a little math for her -- two drinks a night, thirty days in the month, eighteen hundred baht. Her eyes get wide as she suddenly realizes what this means, and then I explain that she can just drink orange juice if she doesn't really want a strong drink, but that if a man offers she should always say yes to a drink. She takes another -- with whiskey.

She doesn't really understand what she'd supposed to do while at the bar, has no idea what short or long time means, no idea what to charge, no real sensible idea about condoms (hides her head in hands when I mention them, though she volunteers hesitantly, "is good idea.") and is completely freaked out when I ask her what she will do when she is that girl sitting over there, the one who the farang is grabbing onto, putting his hands where he pleases. We spend a little time looking at how different girls in the bar handle this issue -- the fireworks are mostly over, and the place is increasingly busier.

We talk a little about the whole bar scene, and while she has a small idea what's what, she really hasn't thought the whole thing through very well. I ask, "If I say to you right now, ok, I will barfine you, come with me, what will you say and do?" Her face renders first confusion, then recognition, then panic. "Relax," I say, "I'm not going to do this. But you need to think about what you will do." I start pointing out other guys in the bar, saying, what if he asks you, what about him, and she says to me, "Not possible, will never happen!" Why, I ask? "Never ask me," she says. Were this another bar, another situation, they'd certainly never get the chance, as I'd grab her in a heartbeat. For a brief instant I think of telling her that she could probably have an auction where the highest bidder gets to be the first farang to sleep with her, and she'd probably make an astonishing amount, but then bite my tongue.

I tell her many men will want her to go with them, particularly because she is very young and very pretty, and new to the scene. At this point she is getting more used to the idea (or the whiskey is kicking in) so she's not hiding so much, but is trying the idea on for size. The concept seems to please her, but this seems at this point simply the idea she would be desired, not about the money, (since she really doesn't have a clear sense of any of that) and definitely not about the sex since she can't quite bear to think about that yet and keeps being distressed when I bring it up, and completely so when I mention it and point to the proverbial rotund grey-haired farang.

By now it's late, and I'm ready to head out, so I make her promise that she will think about these things, and that she will have an answer for me when I ask her about barfining her when I see her next. On the way out, the my wanna-be minor wife asks me when I am going to barfine her, why I did not barfine Joi, and then staggers off.

I bring this all up for two reasons -- first, though I've talked to lots of TGs who are new to the job, and have been the first farang with a couple, I've never talked extensively to someone on their first night on the job, and in particular case it's very clear that there's a rather sketchy idea of the whole thing. So the education and lying and tricks we all talk about in this thread comes later. (Earlier in the evening I'd had a drink with another BG I know, and helped her edit a letter she was writing for a friend, who was telling the guy who sent her some money in a letter that the letter showed up but the money did not. "Post office steal" was the letter writer's adamant assertion, saying, "they do from me, too." I actually believe this is what happened because she kept saying, "Farang not know right way send money" but it's still a case where the letter is from her, not the girl who was sent the money.) Second, while I'm a hard-hearted bastard at the core of things when it comes to relationships with TGs I sleep with, it's also very hard not to be somewhat touched by someone with this kind of naivety, who simply has very little concept of what she's signed up for, but who, though nervous, doesn't run away with horror either.

So here's a probably not unusual starting point for a bar girl -- the rest of the package develops from here. It will be very interesting to see and talk to this girl over the next week or so, see how her perspective shifts, and so on. If she was at a different bar and I a slightly different situation I'd sure as hell have a go with her -- teaching can be fun!

JuiceSpike

11-21-02, 07:11

Joe,
Nice...great story. I'm impressed with your retraint not to take her. I would have bar fined her for sure. But I see your strategy with the whole thing and they pay off might be even bigger when you do take her.... I had two very good experiences on my last trip with newbies and one became the second girl in a series of 3 somes with an ex pro... Teaching is not only fun but Thai girls are capable of getting straight A's in a short time...

Adlez
Is not really about getting into their intellect of the girl but more about getting to know her a little so the experience is different and sometimes is charged with passion that can lead to a great fuck.... And you still apply the 3 Fs and its all about tit and ass anyway..... There are very few girls you would be able or want to do this with....

juice

Joe Zop

11-21-02, 11:00

Skinless asked: But: what happened to your student love? Is she gone or what?

My student has been out of town visiting home for Loi Krathong and taking care of her baby, and I expect her back tonight. She's another reason, along with not wanting to mess up hanging at my favorite bar, that I didn't barfine little Joi. And you hit it exactly, Juice -- I'm getting my brains screwed out by the student anytime I feel like it, part with gratitude, part with her wanting to keep me happy so she can stay with one farang as opposed to a new one each night, and part, if I may say so, because she's enjoying the sex itself, which makes for a different kind of process and experience than picking a new one each time and having at her. (Not at all that there's anything wrong with that!)

So it's not as though I'm at all desperate here (far, far from it -- I'm generally needing to cry uncle) and that means I can have fun teasing and talking with little Joi, see how things go with my student, and just plain enjoy myself during the whole process. If nothing else, I'll be pretty well set up to get Joi to say yes to me if I so choose, since in making her decide how she'll answer say yes to being barfined I've also made it so she's going to be thinking, for now, about how to answer me when I ask, seriously or not. So it makes for a rather interesting head trip, and it should be an interesting stretch of nights. I'm toying with the idea of having my student, who's only been in the game for a month, come and talk to Joi, though that may be too much...

And, hey, there's more to life than having to have absolutely every beautiful woman you see the instant you see them -- well, at least maybe there is :) I've got a great one anytime I want at the moment, who I also very much enjoy being with, and that means I can just play and enjoy the whole scene with Joi, get a little education in the education of a bar girl, and still keep my options open.

Z, I understand absolutely your perspective, and I'm not going to say for an instant it wasn't highly tempting to just take this little thing and knock the stuffing out of her -- but it's also a fact that half the reason it was that tempting was the knowledge that this was her first night, that she was completely new and naive, and I'd have not known that had I not spent a bit of time getting to know her. So I kind of think of it in terms of undressing a woman in sexy clothes -- part of the fun can be in the anticipation and discovery of what's underneath, which again means it's not really about what's in her head as much as it is what's in mine :)

Skinless

11-21-02, 12:27

Joe: the moderator seems to be removing my posts to verify them. He also removed the FAQs and then replaced them. All of these problems began with the action of one troll and instead of controlling that troll, he aims his ire at me. I have emailed you about this and we have back channeled about this. I am VERY interested in your experiences, in the extra stuff that goes on. I got a bj by a honey a few days ago: absolutely no big deal except she was so GF sweet. That would have been a big deal for me when i was 18 or so. Not now. Similarly with LOS. Why is the moderator picking on me like this?

Anyway, it's the head games that make it really interesting and wil light your golden years: when our sex lives is no more, we will remember these happy days.

Skinless,

I don't remove your posts, they're automatically held pending review before they're actually posted into the forum. Yes, this additional step was the only way of stopping serial spammers other than charging for membership. I do not have any "ire" towards you, although I am dissapointed that you decided to remove every one of your many previous posts, a move I don't understand but one that seems intended only to punish me by removing valuable information from my forum.

I didn't remove the FAQ either. When I first posted it, I didn't observe that the forum software included an automatic expiration date that expired last month. Once I realized that the FAQ was no longer visible, I immediately investigated and realized the problem. The expiration date has now been changed to 2010. If only somebody had simply advised me of it's inadvertent dissappearance earlier, instead of assuming that it was the result of malicious intent, we all probably could have saved ourselves some time and aggravation.

Something to think about.

Jackson

JuiceSpike

11-21-02, 13:20

Joe,
Your idea of having the student come and talk to Joi is excellent... Take them both out to dinner and have a nice little chat followed by taking them to your room and well, from here on you take charge of the situation and become the head master....

I think you will have some bumps but the experience will be worth it and possibly very memorable. In fact, you may end up with 2 students competing for As and keeping you a very happy man.

juice

Baby Huey

11-21-02, 14:40

Z,

The get together is still on for the 13th. Alot of people are saying they are thinking about coming or are coming. The only one that as fell out so far is firedick, because of a back problem.

Lets get a head count, either do a posting that you are coming or sent me a e-mail and I will get a list together and post it, who will be there. jimhart69@hotmail.com

Skinless

11-22-02, 00:27

Jackson: Thank you for your comments. Hopefully, I can remove that earlier post soon to aid harmony here. I have back channeled you on this to explain just the different reasons why I removed many of my posts. Please note when I first sent the FAQs to you, I did not ask for credit at all but simply pointed out that Joe_Zop and Freeeler had helped a lot. Please also note that Freeler (this guy is sharp) and missies nothing) noted that the FAQ currently up is a revised version as we were in the process of making it better. If Freeler, who is far and away the most knowledgeable guy on LOS here (or anywhere) wants to revise them, or if anyone has any info to add/delete to it, then hopefully you and Freeler can work out a mechanism for same. I was going to do this off line and send in periodic updates but other things intervene.

The last 10 or so FAQs were gleaned from the archives.

People move on. If I want a bonk in LOS, I know where to go and so I do not need this board for that. Maybe the same applies to Joe _Zop whose current posts and experiences are very interesting to me even though they lack the who where how why kinda thing. I would prefer to be with his two sweeties and would very gladly pay a hefty premium for same than to be with some more experienced veteran. That is where I am at and I appreciate where everyone else is at.

We do appreciate all the time and money you have sunk into this project and we hope it goes smoother in the future. You will note that the troll still seems to be trolling and flaming.

Kind regards from a kinder, gentler Skinless who is looking forward to his next tour of duty.

Joe Zop

11-22-02, 04:12

Skinless, you're probably right that I do not really need this forum for information on where to go find women in LOS at this point, but I tend to believe in a symbiotic process -- sometimes I get, sometimes I give. That said, I still constantly learn from the posts here, which challenge my perspectives, give me updated information, etc.

And for the record, as far as the two honey's I've been talking about, both come from places pretty well-documented thus far in Chiang Mai -- one from the Spotlight, the main gogo in town, and one from a small beer bar in the Night Market area (I will post the name a bit later, but there's only a handful in that area.)

For what it's worth, I do think that coming across sweeties such as I'm lucky enough to be playing with at the moment is partly a matter, as Freeler put it earlier, of showing a good heart but also partly foolish luck and having a sense of ease and not urgency. I certainly agree with you, Skinless, that such experiences have their own golden weight, and it's different than dealing with the professional who may boink your brains out in that it's just a different experience.

And as a slight followup, I stopped by the beer bar yesterday and asked little Joi what she was going to do when someone asked to beer fine her, and her decision at this point, she says, is to say, "No thank you." We shall see.

I want to add my ongoing thanks to Jackson for making this whole system possible, and for investing the immense time and not insubstantial money to make it all work. Please know, Jackson, that any complaint or ire is directed at and prompted by a desire to have the forum be ever more valuable and not at you personally in any way, as you've been level-headed and consistent, which is far from easy to do when faced with the high bozo quotient you get, and which is immensely appreciated.

And now off to disturb my student, who is sleeping in the other room...

Skinless

11-22-02, 14:33

Joe: As I was telling you, I got a 2000 yen bj behind a truck in a Tokyo rld a few nites ago. In the same area, old skanks charge 10k-15k plus 3k yen for a hotel for 2 pops. This lady was so sweet and so cheap. I thought I was being set up to be rolled but no, weird.

To ask the dumb old question: why do these women become prostitutes? Some are born to it, fall on hard times but these others are sooo sweet and so unhardened, like a nun in a brothel. I am not making any judgements here and don't need silly comments. But your 2 sweeties are currently so unprepared for it and so uncut out for it.

That is one of the attractions of LOS. The flip side to what you read on the Boston board here. Those witty guys can spot a crack ho 100 miles away. In LOS, they all look so angelic, angels taken out of the paddy field and transformed into AdleZ' tupperware. Sad, strange, intoxicating.

Firedick

11-22-02, 18:09

Good to see you back Skinless.

FD

Dick Johnson

11-22-02, 19:52

skinless, is she Japanese? how old?

JuiceSpike

11-22-02, 23:31

skinless,
Please stop deleting your posts because I enjoyed reading about your decadence. You also have a twisted and refreshing sense of humor.

I truly beleive "some" women become prostitutes because they really like fucking and its an easy way to make money. I'm not sure why others do and why even bother to know. Maybe many of them don't know why....

juice

Apac Boy

11-23-02, 00:28

skinless,
dood..just stop erasing it and start posting. same thing with u freeler...

i'm half way done on my website....stay tuned....

ps.anybody know how to do a flash intro? email me please....

tapioca1688@hotmail.com

tapioca

Skinless

11-23-02, 01:53

Jackson: You now have me listed as "senior member". I sincerely hope this does not refer to the favorite part of my anatomy which now operates only in sporadic bursts.

Dick Johnson: She is about 18, a Japanese beauty, operating in a part of Shinhuku/Okubo the yakuza and their Iranian foot soldiers don't fully patrol. She blew me off behind a truck, beside a block of apartments where anyone looking out could have seen us perform (not a great bj btw but an interesting one and well worth the small change o nthat account. I had about 100,000 yen on me at the time and had to search for 2 small notes. She didn't try to follow up with me (I wanted to bring her to a hotel, even though a fuck was off the menu, shit the beauty and the novelty of her made that redundant). I have been looking for her ever since. The most horrible skanks will say no to 10,000 yen (3,333 baht) for one short time pop (plus 3k yen for a hotel) and I get an angel for chump change! It is my first public paid for bj here though I think I did spot a lady giving one before (or emerging from a car park with a veyr shady and satisfied looking nihonjin) And I was offered one before in Ikebukero by a massage touting lady (5 k yen for a hj)

I am really interested in Joe's adventures. I have found diamonds in the rough before, mostly junkie types who don't have the guts to do anything else except vacuum clean. I like playing the gallant knight and crying later when the damsel in distress is destroyed.

Phantom Posts: I will review my posting strategy in consultation with Freeler, whose position is slightly different. I originally removed posts as they were useless and old. And then there was the troll problem. I reposted the HODT highlights as Joe_Zop and others specifically asked me to. And then the troll weighed n again with how useless it was. The highlights had all the main contact points. I am not a writer of porno, real or fiction. I merely play a bit part when I get the chance. Now Joe_Zop has me all zoppy to rescue these Chiang Mai darlings from, em, the likes of (me and ) Joe_Zop:)

The FAQs is a different matter. I originally did them to focus discussion here a bit. Without sounding like a total dick, I might need some more info from Freeler (which I can hopefully get by back channeling - and the troll even makes smart ass remarks about that word). A few other little things maybe. But I find the experiences of all others interesting, particularly those of our man on the spot, Guiseppe_Zop and i ifnd it fascinating that our views (mine at least) of these women changes so much. The fact that AdleZ cuts in with his tuupperware comments probably keeps a sense of focus and reality for all of us. Last time in Pattaaya, after I saw the BB One, I found it truly horrible and freaky. The crass commercialism has a very nasty underccurrent and I would advise Tapioca nad all of you to exercise extreme caution in using banned substances there. Even heaven has its downside.

Joe Zop

11-23-02, 04:56

Skinless -- when I first started posting on this forum, we had some very interesting discussions about exactly this whole issue. Perhaps it's time to take a look at it again.

A small update (as I really had a fairly quiet night last night -- a bit tired and rather in a cranky mood, as folks at home have been dragging their feet on putting money I'm owed into my account, which is highly annoying when you're twelve time zones away, but a situation that will be resolved shortly) regarding both of these "diamonds in the rough" as Skinless so aptly put it.

I'll start with little Joi, the brand new bar girl, who I spent some time talking to last night. She was almost like a different person -- kind of the one she described herself to be when I first met her, bouncy, friendly, quietly outgoing though still shy, happy to see me and even happier when I brought out the tarot cards I'd promised to bring (she and the owner bonded more during the night despite their rather rough start, since both of them own a deck of cards and are very interested in them -- the owner insisting I not move anything after reading her cards until she copied everything down.) Turns out -- boy, has this been another strange Chiang Mai theme -- that she was in the midst of her period the last two days, and is now feeling better.

But to explore your earlier question a bit, Skinless, of where these girls come from, last night Joi gave me the lowdown on her lovelife so far -- turns out that from when she was sixteen until less than a month ago she was shacked up with an older Thai boyfriend, taking care of his baby from someone else, and essentially being completely controlled -- no friends, no going anywhere, no getting anything because there wasn't enough money -- all while the boyfriend was drinking like a fish and boinking anything that moved. So she finally gave up and moved out, with absolutely nothing -- knowing no one, no skills since he forced her to quit school (she's back working on her high school diploma and says that will take a year) and most of all just wanting to have some control over her life.

She reiterated to me last night her conviction that she would never accept a bar fine, especially since she didn't think she'd need to, since she understands the economics of the whole drink scene. It seems as though she's turned into a friendly, drink-selling machine -- she'd sold five (wow -- 150baht for her!) by the time I saw her yesterday at maybe 10pm. At the same time, when she and I talked about another bar girl (the one who keeps offering to be my minor wife) and I mentioned that she had four different boyfriends on the string, Joi was very clearly fascinated with that, and kept asking question after question until I finally suggested she spend some time talking to the girl herself. I must say, this whole process has been fascinating and entertaining, and I look forward to seeing what happens next. I'm betting barfining within a week right now, but who knows.

Yesterday I also took a very small journey with my student, after I'd finished repeatedly disturbing her sleep, back to see her room and her landlord. (I pointed to a little picture of Mel Gibson she had pasted to one wall -- the only farang thing in the room, which was mostly dozens of photos of her baby -- and she shyly and sweetly said, "you and him age same." Yup, they do know how to feed our egos, don't they?) She, it turns out, owes him four months rent, since she took that money and paid for her kid's hospital treatment (something the landlord confirmed to me happened) and was very worried because she'd not yet been paid by the bar, so she couldn't pay him when she expected to. So I told the guy I'd be good for it -- and that I'd give him the money as soon as the rest of mine (see above) came in.

Now, before anyone goes ballistic on me over this, let me point a couple of monetary things out. This tiny room -- basically a bed and a toilet -- costs her 1500baht a month, so she owes 6000baht for those four months. Basically, I'm going to pay that off and that's pretty much the next week of her being with me. So I'm getting long-term at less than 1000baht a day, but because I'm also directly solving her problem I'm decidedly getting fringes as well. What this cost me was a trip to her place in a tuk-tuk and ten minutes with her landlord, and as a bonus I discovered there is a nice hidden vegetarian restaraunt (where I ate lunch with her -- between her mother stuffing her with food and me making her eat she's gained back a couple of kilos, though is still thin as a rail) that's dirt-cheap and has great food.

I also spent some time talking to her mamasan last night when I went in to pay off her bar fine for a few days (sent her out to go to a birthday party for one of her school friends for a while so I could have a break) and it turns out my little newbie had just about everything wrong about what she was required to do, and pretty much all of the things she's been obsessing about. She's not required to to twenty-five bar fines a month, she's required to do eight (a rather more attainable number, don't you think?) While she is definitely supposed to sell fifty-five drinks a month, that is waived if one customer pays her bar fine more than ten days, so she's off the hook for that one as well. Makes you wonder whether the whole scene is just so overwhelming and frustrating to some that they really just don't get it, because this is an extremely bright girl.

There's very little question that her interests in this scene are strictly monetary and nothing else, as even though she completely enjoys sex she's still got a million typically odd little TG hangups and restrictions about it (my favorite one -- which is not too far from breaking down -- no matter how much we're boinking, and no restrictions on my pleasure, there can be only one orgasm for her because more would be too much and she would be crazy all day long. Another orgasm is ok if we've stopped and begun again, but not two in a row. Well, I am someone who can't resist such a challenge, I'm afraid.) I'm going to be very intrigued to see how or if she changes once some of the debt goes away, since this rent thing and what she's going to get paid from the bar are the only ones that have been rattling around, and I've walked her through a long series of questions and processes about whether there are other debts floating around (tuition's the only one, and she's paid up on that for now, though the next term must be dealt with.)

For me, this is all great grist for the mill, and I've been feeding everything into my work, so if I were paying ten times as much for everything it would still be cheap. Skinless, of course the rescue thing plays into it, but to be honest, I'm thinking of it, and have said so repeatedly to her, as more a temporary calm place in between storms, as both she and I want a calm place and I don't control the weather. It's up to her what she wants to do, and part of the interesting part of this whole process, as with little Joi, is watching her figure out what that truly might be. She's managed to completely refrain from any of the possessive or controlling crap that are immediate grounds for ending things, and I'm starting to get somewhat hopeful that could continue for a couple of weeks or even longer, which would be great from my perspective, since I continue to enjoy her company and not needing to go prowl every night.

When I go on the road again (now next week, when I'm running to Chiang Rai, Mae Son, back here and then Phuket, followed by a more out-country wander back) I'll have plenty of time for additional new bodies, but this little setting-up-house has been a boon to my process thus far, so I'm hoping it continues. Still, I'll stress again that I've got no untoward emotional attachment here -- I like her, I wish her well, but no one's remotely in love with anyone. She gets some of her problems solved, steady income, no worries, I get what I want.

Skinless

11-23-02, 08:07

Dear Mrs Zop: Although young Joe tries hard, yet he seems to get in trouble in a lot of his classes. Mr AdleZ, who takes the Tupperware 101 class, has recently brought to my attention some disturbing news about your little boy. Mrs Zop, little Joey is hanging around in the wrong company, treating "ladies of the night" to all sorts of goodies and, I believe, doing naughty things with them behind the school shed. Boys will, of course, be boys, but Mr AdleZ is worried about the bad example Mr Zop is facing. What if he sets a bad example for young Tapioca san, who should really be spending more time at the books and less doing up porno sites. Mrs Zop, I hate to cause you this unnecessary trouble but, as a result of Mr Zop's very naughty behavior, I am giving him 15 days' detention. With his 2 sweeties.
He is also going to have to write out a full explanation of why he is upsetting Mr AdleZ so.
Yours faithfully

John Skinless
(Headteacher)
LOS High.

Joe Zop

11-23-02, 11:56

Z -- you say potato, I say potahto. What you call getting involved, I call better understanding how the scene works, which will benefit me in the future. If you note, I've been consistent in this -- I posted in my Bangkok report as well the details of the financial issues involved. This was my way of finding out the specifics about the scene here. I think of it this way -- when I'm negotiating for a counterfeit brand name pair of pants on the street in LOS, it helps a great deal to know what the real ones cost, more or less what these cost to make, and what other folks generally pay. It lets me lose magnanimously when bargaining gets down to crunch time by being in the right ballpark when I give in and close the deal. When I'm working, I want to know the budget of the organization I'm dealing with, as it affects their internal culture and decision-making process. In this case, I believe it helps to know what really, truly the bottom line is about this scene -- as I can then make my purchasing negotiations and decisions accordingly.

Damn straight there's probably a little connection between my little student and me -- I certainly hope so, as it's what I look for in all my encounters that go beyond the thirty-minute mark, though what you think that is and what I do are clearly very different things. I want more than a short-time boink, as I've said before -- I like the whole GFE, I like having someone whose head as well as body I can explore, and I'm a life vampire in that I want to know everything and everybody's story. That's how I am, that's what I do, here or elsewhere. But you're completely off-base if you think because I like spending time with someone it automatically translates into deep emotional attachment and loss of perspective -- that might be a danger for you, but it is decidedly not with me. I do the exact same thing with business associates and friends -- I want to know how they think, where they're coming from, as it helps me understand how to tailor my communication. I've yet to send anyone a penny and never will. I know exactly what my real life is and what fantasy is, and I know the difference between temporary and permanent. I've also been very consistent in stating my rules and timelines with these TGs. Can they misunderstand? Of course, but that's the nature of human interaction, and I do my best to minimize that possibility. Might there be tears at an end point? Sure -- like that's never happened before to anyone here, and like its going to stop me from getting on the plane.

As far as the silly bar and landlord things yesterday, I've gotten far more out of these little side-trips and visits than I can describe -- but please keep in mind that my work is not manufacturing, it's dealing with people, so anything that helps me better understand how they work is to my benefit. (Hmm, wonder if this part is tax-deductable as research -- I know good portions of the rest of my trip already are, but hadn't considered putting "bar fines" and "tuk-tuk visits to colorful landlords" on the list.) I've said it before -- I'm basically a cold-hearted manipulative bastard who does his best to appear the exact opposite at all times, and all this stuff helps me be better at it on all counts.

As to your take that I'm somehow emotionally abusing someone by treating them like a human being as opposed to a condom wrapped in flesh -- that's an extremely amusing perspective to hear from you, honestly. You think that because I actually, gasp, talk to these TGs and find out where they're coming from I'm somehow crushing their spirits and lives? So much better I guess they should understand early on in the process that they're just disposable flesh that no one should give a second thought to, and heavens, no, not explore what they think or go through. Anyway, if I may be so bold as to parrot your own perspective back at you: why should you care? They're only wh*res, after all. Whether they're hard-boiled angry sex machines because of repeated farang emotional abuse or tender little naive tiraks who await your mighty sword won't affect your 3F equation in the least.

I understand and am bored with the easy and efficient. If you're efficient you get from point A to point B, but you can miss all the interesting little potential side-trips and sights along the way. I said it here in the first post I ever made on this board -- for me, it's the total experience, not the specific act. I don't at all object to easy and efficient, and people are welcome and encouraged to go to it -- I just don't want the same meal night after night, at least in part because I've really not much interested in getting to the point you've described yourself as being at -- pretty much bored with the whole thing, finding it of little importance or interest, ranking well below golf. I don't want sex or the nuances of relationships brief or long, serious or not, ever to rank below golf or dentistry! I've said before that yours is the safest approach, and you kids should not try this at home, as there are professional stunt drivers involved, and I repeat that.

As far as the rent thing -- I think you must have misread. It means she got 6000 baht for the week, that's all, and I bought a bit of food. How exactly is that even remotely inflating or overpaying?

No offense or heat intended on any of this, as ever, of course, and you know well I simply come at this stuff from a different direction than you. I'm just doing Mr. Skinless' homework assignment... :D

Baby Huey

11-23-02, 15:54

Joe_Zop,

We were down this road with Z, about a month ago. He only see it from one-way, take the TG, fu*$ the TG, pay the TG. There is no reason to talk to her, or try to have any other fun with the TG. They have only one use, sperm deposit box. They are basically a piece of equipment, to be used, nothing else, and nothing more in his mind. But that is his decision!

I am with you! There is something about having a GFE with the TG. There is sometime in getting something back, and to enjoy your time with the TG. This does not mean you have to support her or have any commitments with the TG. It just means you want to have more fun, than fu*$ing a hole! You and many of us understand that, you can have fun with the TG, with no commitment. The only commitment is being friends, just like any friends in life. So what, that you have to pay her for her time, in my mind that keep it on a business level, but you can still have fun!

Z approach to the TG, works good for him. That is good for him. But in the back of his mind, I believe that he cannot trust himself to have anymore of a relationship with a TG. Because it could go down the wrong road.

I do agree with Z on the farang walking around with TG in love in 2 days, and wasting their whole life, because of some of the games that TG play with the farang. What can you do about the stupidly of some people? Nothing! But if you know about the games and don't fall into them, there is no reason not to enjoy your time with the TG. Life is to short not to enjoy it!

At the end of the day, you paid her rent, had 6 days of fun and probably great sex for 1000 baht a day. If she was playing a game if you, the only thing she did, was to insure you stay with her for a week! Z just does not trust the TG and believe they want to screw him all the time in more than one way.

But that my two cents! See you all on the 13th.