2003 Thai Women - Opinions & Advice [Archive] - Page 3

Siddv

11-03-03, 03:58

Joe,

Sorry for the delay in responding to your comments regarding my post not long ago. You are certainly very wise. I would say that your comments were pretty much on target and I thank you for helping me understand what ocurred. I agree that things could have been worse, that I was being petty and that I had willingly become attached despite what I had read about the 3F mantra. Now that I have experienced this situation perhaps I will be better prepared for the next time.

I have the good fortune of having to return to BKK at the end of the month. I am almost embarrased to admit that I have given the thought of "hooking" up again with my friend. I would hazard to suspect that you and others would not think this to be a wise idea. Perhpas after I see a few other girls I will put the thought out of my mind, but then again?

Mind you I have no intention of ever sending money or anything like that but I did have a good time with her before the "misunderstanding." I once again subject my self to riddiclue in the interests of other viewpoints.

DirtyDoneDave

11-06-03, 08:05

Next year I am moving to Thailand. I have been there many times and everytime I have enjoyed it more and more. The first time I was in Thailand was back in 1989.

Ok... now that I will be staying in Pattaya/Chonburi area. I like the young eighteen or nineteen year old ladies. The older ones are fun, but I have the younger taste. Anyone have advice on how to find and maintain a young lady without commitment but have her on the side for wild times.

Joe Zop

11-06-03, 16:50

Siddv, I'm in agreement with Samus on this one for a variety of reasons, though not about the "agony of the GFE." For some of us, that's decidedly not agony, if it happens in the right way. (And of course none of this is in the spirit of ridicule -- it's far better that you're looking at these issues before you've bankrupted your accounts and your emotions.)

If your reason for hooking up with this girl are because you had a good time and because she was a looker, well, there's certainly no shortage of those possibilities available. I'd suggest you look to experience several and broaden your perspective and your skin. There are any number of TGs who are up for the precise same experience, (either including or sans the blow-up depending on your predilections) and part of the fun can be sorting through them.

I'd also suggest that you might want to spend a bit of time practicing the 3F method so you can get comfortable with it. (I say this as one who doesn't use the religiously strict interpretation of the 3Fs, as many do, but who certainly acknowledges that they are the absolute safest method -- in the same way that not drinking is the best way not to get drunk. There's absolutely no question that TGs can be master manipulators of the farang heart and head if you give them the chance, though I don't ascribe this to any negative character aspects, as some do -- it's simply differences in culture and perspectives.)

If part of your reason for wanting to see this TG is because you feel bad or guilty about the last time, then get over it. She certainly has -- to her it meant that a steady income stream and a pleasant experience disappeared, but not that she was somehow heartbroken or feeling more than a temporary sense of loss or regret.

If you intend to go back because you now realize you might have given her reason to be pissed and want to make it up, then please: absolutely, absolutely, absolutely forget it! If you go back she will undoubtedly remember you, but she will also feel that since you came back to her she is in control, and this will do nothing to help things or discourage jealous behavior. You will ever be in the wrong, and she will ever be in control. You are simply setting yourself up to be abused and gelded.

If you even suspect you want to see this girl because you harbor some feelings for her, do yourself a favor and go to Brazil instead. There's already enough wreckage in SE Asia.

Let's put this in perspective: the good time you described was a couple of days of fun, followed by a period of discomfort because she was acting pissed, making you do the same to the point you had enough and walked out. And this was an experience you were paying for; it's not really grounds for getting back together even if this were a normal boy/girl relationship. It's only been a month or so since your post -- if you want to see her again, give it a trip and a year in-between to let more water pass under the bridge.

Let me note that I personally generally prefer a GFE, and look for someone I can hook up with for several days or even longer. My last trip I was with one TG (well, mostly) for the better part of six weeks. We parted as friends who had each gotten something out of the experience, not as star-crossed lovers. (Though of course that can be fun to play with as well, a la Skinless.) However, I'm always insistently clear that I'm a customer, that I'm going to be leaving, that nothing is permanent, and what we're doing is contractual. Doesn't mean I can't be pleasant or affectionate, only that I constantly discourage any sense of real attachment, and reject all behavior that implies that. By reject I mean I say, "If this bothers you, perhaps we should end things. If that's not what you want, then change how you are acting." If change doesn't happen, I end things pleasantly and regretfully and move on. (DirtyDoneDave, this approach might work for you as well.) I then make sure I quickly hook up with someone else to get a fresh taste in my mouth. :)

Bottom line: the best thing you can do is go hook up with someone else who makes you forget the first. Or, better still, several others. If you're worried about your abilities to do this, then head to Pattaya and remove yourself from the temptation of heading back to Nana.

JuiceSpike

11-07-03, 04:15

Joe,

I'm going to get a little intellectual with you...

You wrote:

...."There's absolutely no question that TGs can be master manipulators of the farang heart and head if you give them the chance, though I don't ascribe this to any negative character aspects, as some do -- it's simply differences in culture and perspectives..."

I disagree with you. Here is what I have found talking to both pro and non-pro women about their little manipulation schemes to get a guy to send $$ or to hook him up for a future with a girl and then get the $$.

It's a game for them. They play it very well. Some have more experience and some less. Both play to win. Both are naturals at it. Look at their pretty smiles, no way they could be lying... no way....

There is no culture in this world that I know of that allows for outright dishonesty to be OK or acceptable. In Thailand lying to gets one's way is common but definately not accepted. Even regular Thais are amuzed by the games/schemes women play with Farangs, they do not accept it as a cultural thing, they look down on it... and many "regular good" women are ashamed at how some women decieve farangs to get what they want. They think this does not help their country's image or Thai women's image. They are right, it does not. Ever wonder why is so hard for even a regular Thai woman to get a visa to many western countries?

Lying and manipulating it is a negative character thing in Thailand.

Pro and non pros have many tricks to get a farangs. Some are obvious and some are very well calculated schemes. One regular girl I used to hang out with would stay up all night trying to figure out how to get a farang hooked... no joke. I actually gave her some tips on what not to say because she was pretty obvious with me... If you met this girl, you would think she was an angel...and she was until her true colors came out but I turn her little game against her.... Bar girls are much more obvious and less dangerous if you recognize what's going on.

I think what happens is that many guys going to Thailand for the first time are completely blinded by the good times and the so called Girlfriend Experience. This "experience" is not just a sevice thing but many times a calculated move to get the farang into a deception that for many guys is so fucking hard to detect and get out of it before is too late.

I'm sure many guys in here have had the experience of helping a bar girl write an email to a farang in English. Once I helped write a good one to a poor guy in Texas... On his next email to her, he was ready to send her $500US a month. I later wrote to him telling him that the whole thing was a scheme and not to send money... he claimed to be surprised that his pretty angelic women could be such a player.... he beleived when she told him he was so special to her...

I'm not saying that all Thai women are lyiars. I'm saying that most are, pros and none pros.
The problem is that many Thai women see farang as a way out of something or as a easy way to get cash. Many women are willing to sacrifice true love for money... They also think that if we get to fuck them for cheap we must pay more later, the sooner the better.

It's a game. They play it well. They have home field advantage. Their main trategy is to make the guy think with his dick and not his head. Their second main strategy is after they have you thinking with your dick they want you to attached your emotions to that thinking. They win if you let them. Stay in control, they are used to having men be in control and many girls like it...they like guys that are in control, not out of control thinking with their dicks. They don't think with their pussies. They don't feel with their pussies.

Try this with a bar or freelance girl when you first meet her: Say "bullshit" to everything she says.... everything. Do it playfully. She will little by little start laughing followed by asking you if you live in Thailand and for how long... Then if she likes you, she will fuck your brains off. She is now free to fuck for fun and not for schemming. Of course you pay her.

I agree with Mr. Samus: 3Fs is the only way for most guys to stay out of trouble. But if you play their game and want to beat them to amuze yourself ... be ready...

juice

Freeler

11-07-03, 06:22

JuiceSpike,

Thai girls get swindled too, as is made clear in this Pattaya Mail report:

"Local man posing as foreigner arrested for swindling service girl

Boonlua Chatree

Just after midnight last Tuesday morning, police received a follow up report from a service girl working at a North Pattaya bar that a man who had skipped out on paying her for services was in the process of carrying out another attempt on a woman near the Dolphin Roundabout, just one day after she reported the previous incident to police.

Suttichart (seated right) already has a number of pending court cases for swindling service girls, and was caught yet again in North Pattaya.

Officers rushed to the North Pattaya location and arrested 26-year-old Sutthichart Pinitsuntorn, from Songkhla, southern Thailand. He was taken to the police station for further questioning.

Suttichart admitted to his misdemeanor, saying that he already has a number of court cases pending for similar offenses, adding that he would pose as a Taiwanese tourist and con the girls in to sleeping with him. He said that the entire process was very easy to do and in this particular case, he had taken the woman’s purse as well.

Police charged him with theft and possession of stolen goods and Suttichart now has another court case added to the long list already under process."

I like that: CON (!) the girl into sleeping with him... LOL and of course that after stealing something you are in possession of stolen goods...

Skinless

11-07-03, 13:22

"They don't think with their pussies. They don't feel with their pussies."

Juice: What are you on about. I like it when they squeeze (feel) my dick with their pussies. I had a great fuck a few days ago in Tokyo but she would not refuck me tonight, why I do not know. I gave her a great time, made her come etc and John Skinless was rewarded in kind. It is nice to be nice. These women are play things and they do make excellent wives. Ask Santa to bring you some for Xmas.
Samas-san: Any chance of a photo (Royal Family excluded) just so we know what tastes you have in women? The virtual world awaits your pleasure.

JuiceSpike

11-07-03, 14:42

skinless,

Good one. Yeah, for christamas I will be with Santa doing deliveries in BKK.

juice.

Chikan

11-07-03, 15:26

Skinless,
Curious minds want to know: What are you up to in Japan? Hehe..I can only imagine..............;)

Joe Zop

11-07-03, 18:23

Ok, gulp, I'll respond.

Juice, I agree with you that there are lots of Thai women who are into outright fraud, and basically treat it as a game. I do, however, disagree with your take on several counts, which is why I hedged my original statement, as I was stressing that it's my take on things and others, such as you, have another.

First, I very much disagree that it's a specifically Thai thing -- there are women all around the globe who do exactly the same thing. I ran into the precise same thing in Africa, for example, even more brazen in many cases. Let's note that it's not simply Thai women who have a difficult time getting visas -- it's a number of asian countries, and I recall reading a State Department study that looked at Filipinas who married to enter the US and then divorced within weeks of obtaining permanent residency, or even before -- so they could take half the guy's holdings and head home rich. Same thing is true with Russian brides, etc.

Now, Thai women may well be better at it than anywhere else, largely because they have had more practice at it than most. Again, though, I see this as a coming from culture as opposed to character, and let me explain a bit why.

Remember that in LOS family is everything, and the bottom line is that the only people you need to care about or be honest with are family. Thais don't get out of the way of ambulances because they figure it's no one in their family or they'd already know about it. Family means anyone remotely related. Extend this further, and you come smack up against the Thai sense of xenophobia -- if you're not Thai, you don't matter.

Let's not forget -- and I don't care what regular "good women" or men tell you about being ashamed of these deceptions, as this is certainly not restricted to Thai working women or Thai women at all -- that the first rule in Thailand is this: the farang pays.

It doesn't matter what happens, who's at fault, whether or not it's a bald-faced lie, that's the default rule. It's up to the farang to manage his way out of the situation, and sometimes he can and sometimes he can't, but that's the way it always starts out.

The core rule in Thailand is simple -- if you're not family, you don't matter. If you're not Thai, you can't possibly be family. So, if you're not Thai, you don't really matter. Everything else flows from that, and it doesn't matter if you're talking about farangs or hilltribe people or Burmese or whatever. You cannot be Thai unless you're born Thai -- think of how few other countries make it absolutely impossible to become a citizen of their country, no matter what you do!

Now, don't get me wrong -- I still think Thais, in general, are very nice folks, and I always enjoy being there and interacting with them, whether in or out of the sex trade. But I don't forget that underneath things there is this core of nationalism which is far less forgiving than the US or European model, and is, at its essence, familial and tribal. That's no big deal, really, as long as you remember it's there -- it's kind of like trying to remember that although we Americans have a general tendency to be self-righteous buffoons who are like elephants in a doll house (:D) underneath there's generally a reasonably generous and forgiving core.

Look, one of the longstanding stereotypes in the west is the "sneaky or untrustworthy Asian." From my perspective, laying this on character as opposed to culture means it's harder to get a handle on without being dismissive or untrusting, harder to understand motivation and boundaries, and so on. I'd rather work on understanding how this connects with the very fundamental Thai dictum (which is absolutely alien to us, and the source of so many misunderstandings) of greng-jai.

Personally, I think we should replace the idea of the GFE with that of the GFI -- the girlfriend illusion. That way people can keep foremost in their heads that it's not real.

And by the way, I've certainly also met any number of guys who are every bit as into fraud in a different way -- stringing TGs along and telling them they're gonna marry or take care of them, etc., when they have absolutely no intention of doing so. This is also very much treated as a game, and these guys don't feel any worse about their actions than the TGs on phones or computers feel about theirs. Dishonesty cuts both ways -- it's not for nothing that TGs in the trade generally consider farangs to be liars.

Chikan

11-07-03, 21:46

Ok..me too(gulp),
I don't usually get involved in these discussions as Joe Zop seems to cover all the bases........anways - to a certain extent (and skinless will probably agree) living in Japan has taught me the same as Joe is saying here "If you're not Japanese - you're nothing". "The Gaijin is at fault - let him talk his way out of it" and just TRY and become a Japanese citizen (not that you'd want to).

I'm not sure how Jackson feels about links to other sites, but my fellow friends should check out this guys site: www.debito.org
This webpage is about an American who rescended him American citizenship for Japanese and the long, ardous task that it in itself involved. He fights for equal rights for "gaijin" to enter "bath-houses", "spas" and general areas of Japan. There is some serious racism in Japan. I know because I've a tour of duty or two there and I was glad to leave. Just ask any Koreans from generations past who were born in Japan but still have to make the pilgrimage to Immigration.

Anyways, just thought I'd add my 2 cents into the fire.

Seydlitz

11-07-03, 22:26

Joe Zop:

I agree with your GFI concept. It is 100% better than GFE in most cases.

Your take on "the Farang pays" and "family ergo Thainess is all that matters" is equally most accurate.

Still, LOS is mostly a reasonably-priced theme park for the discerning white male. I can think of no other place on earth that has all that much to offer.

JuiceSpike

11-08-03, 00:30

Joe,

Gulp? I thought you like getting into discussions...

Anyway, I never said it was a "Thai thing" of course not. It is a universal thing to lie/manipulate and deceive.

My point (in the context of your posting and in this Thailand section) was that I do not believe that manipulating and lying women in Thailand (not all of them) is a positive cultural thing or is accepted by Thais as a cultural thing either. Lying and manipulating it is a negative character thing in Thailand...

Your last posting had many good points. Nice new way to re-define the GFE... to GFIllusion.

I agree with you that Thai in general are very good people. If you go to their country open minded, without your American outlook and cultural position, Thais are easy to make friends with. And for the most part, I have found that they accept you as a friend easily. Of course you re not family so you will not be "one of them..." If you want to be family, marry their daughter and pay the admission fee and monthly services fees...

I'm a cynic, it keeps me out of trouble, focused and in control.

Just my opinion.

juice.

Joe Zop

11-08-03, 02:21

Of course you're right, Juice, that I love discussions. The"gulp" was because I knew I was about to be my usual voluble self. :)

I agree that lying and deceit are considered negative traits in Thailand, but they're also forgiven more when they're done to farangs than to Thais. I'm also saying that they do have a cultural context as opposed to it just being that most of the TGs we're coming in contact with are simply bad people.

I understand what you mean about being a cynic, but I've found it just as possible to be safe and in control by being realistic and trying to understand why people myself included do things and what they want -- myself included.

Skinless

11-08-03, 02:54

Chikan: I know how you feel. But Japanese women are great fucks. Before I came here, I was a Harley man. I liked my bikes and babes big and busty. Now I am a rice guzzler. I like bikes and babes that are small, easy to handle and throw around corners at all angles. I don't even mind small headlights. I like to stroke their engines and get em humming and begging for more. Is it a form of racism to get some Jap babe begging for more John Skinless and then fucking her as hard as I can - in the missionary position. Is it like saying: Look you Japanese *****, your own men cannot fuck you the way you want to be fucked. Hard and mean. The same with TGs. They get fucked maybe 2,000 times a year on average. It is a game to get them to orgasm, nothing more, to tell them you love them, and to mean it at the time as the white injection refills their tank (or their rear engine as the case may be).

As regards money: they are hookers. By all means forget it but they will not: it is their job. Keiko, to give only one current example, is a great fuck. I have spent nights with her and have had GFE (no condoms, all night, bbbjm daty, cim etc). And I have paid her chump change. I have told her I love her and she has told me the same. She is trying to decide between an American bf and a Japanese bf. John Skinless has given her very good advice on this. (She is my friend, I love her and she loves me and she is a great fuck). Last time we did 2 hours in a love hotel and walked back to Kabukicho. She left me before we got there as she had to meet a friend at 4 pm. Do you think the friend she was meeting on the strip wanted to fuck her? Do you think she believes a jerk like me really wants much more than a good fuck and a good time from her? Do you think some of her questions might be to see how much mileage is in John Skiness? Get real. These are good time girls. And how I like ringing their bell!

Samas: If you are still with us, please cough up the photo. Even one from a swimming pool will do.

Apac Boy

11-08-03, 06:35

hehe..."i hedged my original statement", only joe could come up with something like that.

skinless, let's see some of these jap girls on here too...to get the ball rolling, here's a Chinese SW that I picked up a month or so ago. She still comes over though...sometimes she doesn't even want money. Yet, I still give it to her. Not much difference between chinese and their thai counterparts.

tapioca

The Traveler

11-08-03, 11:23

Tap

that chick on the pic looks tired and exhausted. What did you do with her ? :-)

Have fun

Apac Boy

11-09-03, 15:53

She received the 10 min. Tapioca special...

Yeah, I rocked her world...

tapioca

Dick Johnson

11-11-03, 06:54

This page has most of the 'old timers' samus, skinless, juice, joe, Tap, traveller, seylidtz all sounding like who they are. 300 baht sex is not enough, Freeler is thinking about stolen goods now ;-) poking at ya buddy.

(I'm surprised I still have more posts than tapioca lol. No match for you know who tho.)

Sainter

11-11-03, 09:24

SA is spot on.

Chikan

11-12-03, 04:27

Dick! How the hell are you? Haven't seen some of your posts in a long time!? I think you used to / still do - post in the China section.......? Happy Poking!

Freeler

11-12-03, 05:48

Dick Johnson,

Well, that's your last post I guess.
Or didn't you know that gay posts are on the 'you're goin' to have yo'ass banned list':D?

Sainter

11-12-03, 09:53

To those of you guys here that do a lot of travelling, which country do you think has the best girls? I mean, I've seen pros in the UK, Holland, Thailand, Singapore, China, Indonesia and Malaysia. My personal view is that Indon girls provide the best service, yet my friends think that nothing beats a good China girl. Which girls do you guys think are more accomodating and, provide better all round service? I'm just curious.

Batman

11-12-03, 19:52

Hey Sainter
I will put in my 2 . As for bang for the buck Central America and South East Asia are by far the best. Both Places offer great sex and hot girls for all night for under $50. And if you speak the languge, dinner and drinks.

JuiceSpike

11-13-03, 01:02

Best sluts in the world?

Thailand.

Easy to get (everywhere in the country).... Easy to fuck.... Easy to discard (warning, if you are really good looking you may have trouble with this).... Easy to marry to (bring lots of cash).... Easy to get a "I love you" from a girl before she says "hello to you ..."

juice

SexReview

11-13-03, 01:18

Juice,

"I Love you" by the second date? You must be slipping a little my friend, they say that before you can even get into the club most of the time. Low season all the time.

Sexreview

Globotto

11-13-03, 20:10

Here is my best tips for your vacation to Thailand.

Don't fall in love with a bar girl. Oh you will but at least I told you so.

When you return home don't send her money....repeat...don't send her money.

Save the money and use it on your next trip. You will get a lot more bang for the buck.

If your out and about being a *****monger wear your condoms or you may bring some undesirable souvenier back home.

Those of you who decided to make the ***** your girlfriend and drop the wrap, you may be bringing something home anyways. Therefore if you have a girlfriend back home prior to your final departure you may want to defunk...clinics are cheap here so are the antibiotics.

ChiMan II

11-15-03, 19:03

Folks,

Remember if you are good looking your chances for sex without a condom with a bar girl are 85%. Your chances to get an std are 95%. Thai girls can easily be seduced. I was with some of the most young and beautiful woman I have ever seen there. I was tempted because some can look so clean but them snapped out of it. The thing that throws you off in thailand is that the girl showers before and she just smells so clean. Those beautiful eyes and that beautiful smile. I can only imagine how many guys have took the chance and went bareback with this heavenly creature. Probally alot. Thank God I was thinking with my big head because I will live to go back.

Siddv

11-16-03, 05:15

Joe,

Thanks once again for your very sage advice. The various posts which followed were inlightening to say the least. It made it fairy obvious, and in light of my pitfalls, that I'm a novice among giants. I will heed your advice and the advice of others to expand my horizons. I'm going to be leaving for BKK next Friday (11/21) and I'm going back with a good attitude, looking forward to having lots of fun and not getting hung up with the whole GFI. Maybe its easier said than done as I'm not a strict constructionist regarding the 3F school but I do understand its philosophy. I will certainly give it a go. Anyway, thanks again and I'll be sure to report back.

JuiceSpike

11-16-03, 16:43

New guys to Thailand...

When you go there and see the amazing treat you are in for..... think of this:

If it is too good to be true, then it is not true.

Enjoy the pussy and that's it.

juice

Joe Zop

11-16-03, 18:01

Good luck, Siddv, and have fun. The key is to keep your heart, your head and your dick separated -- if you can manage that you'll be fine.

Sainter

12-09-03, 06:56

Hi fellas, I was just curious to know if anyone here has had any experiences with jealous bar girls. During my stay in Pattaya, I picked up the same girl for 2 consecutive nights from walking street. When I returned to the same bar to try someone else, to my absolute surprise the other girls dared not approach me. According to them I was already taken, and if they went with me, it would spell trouble. Is this a one-off or the norm? Just a little strange that there would be jealousy of that sort in this industry.

Jaimito Cartero

12-09-03, 07:19

Hey, don't you know the other girl owned you even after 1 go around? They will lose "face" if you go with someone else in their bar.

Heck, I had to figure out different ways to walk back to my hotel on Soi 8 in Pattaya so I wouldn't pass the bar of the girl I had taken the day before.

I was walking on beach side about 50 yards away from the bar, and the girl spotted me and yelled and waved. The lesson here? Make sure there is more than one entrance to your hotel!

Joe Zop

12-09-03, 07:31

Sainter, you need to make sure the girl knows you are a "butterfly" from the start to try to minimize problems. Even so, it's generally not a great idea to take someone else from the same bar right away unless you've clearly got a TG who's cool with it. Fortunately, there's enough places to choose from that you don't need to worry about it. JC's situation is precisely why I tend not to take girls whose stations are right near my hotel.

Najene

12-09-03, 12:25

Hi guys;
I've been off line for a while until I got a new machine. Here is the other reason I've been busy.

Najene

12-09-03, 12:26

Oh, and this;

Najene

12-09-03, 12:36

I am not sure if this is over the line or not but I have really learned to enjoy Thai food.

Freeler

12-09-03, 20:42

Najene,

A very good reason for not posting! I'm glad you did cum up for air tho:D.
Hell, I can just see them titties bounce:)

Chikan

12-09-03, 22:35

najene - what a bush! Yuck! LOL! I can see Freeler licking his chops over her though.........haha...;)

Joe Zop

12-10-03, 01:01

Najene -- glad to see you've put all the advice to good use! Tell us, are you now living in LOS, as you mentioned you planned to do? If so, is it working out?

1Ball

12-14-03, 11:50

Since a lot of you thought my post about the sweet little thing and her EU boyfriend belongs in this section, here is the follow up.

I spent 2 nights with her, and there was no charge, which surprized me a lot. I normally slip money in her back pocket of her incredibly tight and sexy jeans, as we walk downstairs, but this morning, she pulled the C note out of her pocket, and handed it back to me, saying, " I really like you, you don't pay this time". Talk about a shock.

Anyway the EU guy is coming here 12/24 for 10 days, meet the family up north, and discuss the next step in the move to Europe. She tells me she isn't looking forward to going, but she will do what is best for her family.

A lot of you are talking about what she is doing wrong, or not doing wrong. My original thought was she was doing was perfectly acceptable, but I take it back. It is not so much the fact she is lying to the guy which I find questionable, it is the fact she is doing it so brazenly, and without any care that she might be hurting him. I personally find offense with her talking to this guy on the phone, telling him she misses him, 5 MINUTES AFTER FUCKING ME. That's where I have a problem, also her telling me she is taking him for a ride is objectionable.

But I have to say that with him giving her 250$ per month, she would be crazy to quit work on that. Until she is over there, and able to send the 10,000 baht or so she sends to help raise her children, she should be able to do what she wants. Only thing is, she should tell him what she is doing.

And no, even though I know his email adress, I am not going to rain on her parade. It is not my business, and I have spent enough time in Asia to know that when it is not your business, it is not your business. someone posted a few days back about the Thais witnessing a traffic accident, and what they do about it. Same thing here, except the traffic accident hasn't happened yet.

I have been following this thread now for a couple of years, and have been coming to LOS for about 25, but on a regular basis, once a month or so, for the last 3 years. I have always taken what a TG says with a grain of salt, but since hooking up with WSG, find myself questionning every phrase, every moan, every comment. Anyboday else feel this way, or have I just gone alittle overboard? should probably not even care, and just enjoy it, huh?

( though this TG turning down a C note this morning was quite an eye opener)

1ball

PS. sitting in an internet shop on Suk, next to a couple of girls howling hysterically at the drivel some guy has written to one of them. " i love you, want to make love with you, can't wait to see you........" pretty funny shit !!!

Opebo

12-14-03, 18:43

1ball,

Freebies are, I think, usually just part of a calculated strategy on the part of prostitutes. The two or three freebies I've had in Thailand from prostitutes have been girls who I used to see for frequent short times, then stopped. After a long hiatus, they'd run into me and offer me a 'free one', I'm sure for no other reason than to get me coming back again. It was sort of like 'oh you are broke, well ok we can go no charge, next time you take care me'.

In your case, maybe she was trying to fool you into believing she 'liked you better' than this EU fool, or that she was actually into you in some way. Absurd of course. But you can see why they do it - it definitely catches your attention. Using him as the pathetic cuckold figure and maltreating him behind his back but in front of you is calculated to make you feel like the 'big man' by comparison (there's nothing more arousing than cuckolding another fellow!). But I'm sure you know she'd do the same to you in a moment, and perhaps already is.

ChiMan II

12-14-03, 20:48

1Ball,

You said she turned down your c note this time. I just wanted to make sure. Are you giving her $100 US dollars per session? If that is the case I can see why she gave it back this time because you are paying too much and she started to feel guilty. Notice how she said this time is free. Just like a video store after you rent 3 tapes you get one free. When I got back from Thailand I was getting e-mails from 3 differet girls. All talking to me like we were in a two year relationship. That lasted for 3 weeks then we just stopped e-mailing each other. What makes Thailand so special is when you buy a girl she actually will give you love. In some cases. I wonder how many men could resist that beautiful body and innocent eyes? I am not surprised they have men sending them money. By the way what Imiss most about Thailand is the voice of the Thai woman almost like the sires leading the sailors into the rocks. Man, I can't wait to go back!

JuiceSpike

12-14-03, 22:30

1Ball,

Finally you are making good sense with your follow up. I agree with you that her approach is all about looking after her best interests. I can see why. But she deserves nothing. That's my opinion. Too many guys in here seem to romantisize these girls as great warriors or even call them heroes of the night. I believe you have to treat them right but that's it.

In my opinion, you should contact that poor bastard and give him a reality check because he needs one. Maybe if it happened to you, you would want someone to save your ass too. Don't worry aout raining on her parade, she already has other suckers candidates already lined up.

I apologize if I had any hyperbole in the above opinions.

Cheers.

juice.

Three I

12-14-03, 22:53

JuiceSpike,

I understand what you are saying here but many men from the west have been beaten down by women so they will choose these women. I tried to save one guy out here in Riveside California but he siadto me " Jenny is not like that"! "You don't know her like I do"! And all other sorts of BS.

I wish there was a guide to dating provider,former provider or something like that. These women are everywhere. They are coming to the west looking for your brothers, fathers,sons,uncles and friends. And all western immigration authority facility this shit.

Isn't it sad when a man rather have a relationship a provider than a regular western woman from there own country. What are our societies coming too. I believe it is our faught that we have allowed women to grind us to death in the west.

JuiceSpike

12-15-03, 05:03

Three X,

I see your point too but it sounds like those wimps you know getting run over by "regular" western women will now get fucked over by hookers in Thailand.

Nice.

I'm off to Thailand tomorrow so happy holidays to all and happy new monger year.

Cheers.

juice.

1Ball

12-15-03, 08:05

Najene,

Chikan is right.... that is some really nasty shit you got there. if she came out of the bathroom with that forest between her legs, she would be given 2 choices: cut it off, or leave. i wouldn't eat that if you paid me, but hey to each his own, i've never understood what guys see in hairy bush.

1ball

1Ball

12-16-03, 13:10

Chiman 2, read my post again. I spent 2 nights with her, and gave her the C note, that's 2000 baht per night, which is the going rate.

And Obepo, she did start telling me she'd rather I took care of her, rather than this other guy. I laughed at her, and told her that would never happen.
hey she's got a job to do, she does it well, and i take my hat off to her.

And to repeat myself, I don't interfere in other people's lives and problems.

Don't think i will be seeing her again, I'm getting bored with her story, but then when i go back next month, after this guy has spent a week or so with her, i might just have to get a follow up from her. It's a bit like looking a someone with broccoli stuck in their teeth, you want to look away, but you just can't !!!

1ball

Siddv

12-21-03, 07:00

Joe: Reporting back from my second visit to BKK. As you may recall had a small problem butterflying during my first visit. I heeded your advice and moved on from her. However I have come to learn that the 3F method is just not for me. When I find the right great looking girl I like to hang out with her. I get good advice on this site so here is my report for what it's worth.

The first night I arrived I got in very late and hooked up with a freelancer as the clubs were closing. She was nice but just no chemistry and I sent here on the way in the morning. The next night I found this little honey with the looks I like who was also fun to be with. I had to stay until she finsihed her part of the bar show but then we left. We hit a few other bars and then went over to the Nana disco to dance. I spent the next few days with her hanging out at the LM pool, visiting the Wat Phra Kaeo-again, going to restaurants and shopping of course. Each night she had to perform in the show at her bar and she has some great looking friends. Eventually, she asked me if I wanted to take one of the girs along with her. Ok this is where I had my problem last time. Well having read some of the posts here I thought I'd handle things a bit better so I went for it again. This time things worked out great.

For the next 4 days I'd come into the bar with my regular and either she'd bring over freinds or I'd tell her or the mamasan which other girl I wanted and I'd take them both. (No need to say I'm droping some coin both at the bar and on the girls but I'm able to and I'm having a great time) We'd go dance at Nana or go eat and then go back to the room. I'd usually spend the night with the new girl-hop in bed to sleep wth my regular then jump back to the friend again in the mornng before she'd leave. Then during the day I'd have my regualr several times after doing something during the day or lounging at the pool which she really seemed to like. The only time I got in a bit of trouble was when I fell asleep with the friend one night.

Anyway, I think the the key to the smooth outcome was that I let it be known up front I was a butterfly, the other girls knew that my regular was part of the deal, I spent most of my time in the bar with her, she approved, I was generous and they all knew it and the mamasan loved me (she often sat with me) -once again due to my business. Also key I think was , as I said I'm not 3F and I treated them like friends which is what, for the short time I was with them, they were. We had great laughs together and they related some great stories to me of guys who have wanted to marry them, who send them money and buy them gold. I continue to get e-mails from my friend who I will see again soon. But no money, no falling in love and no heartbreak. Just good times, laughs and great sex. Anyway, thanks for the great advice.

Joe Zop

12-21-03, 17:10

Excellent report, Siddv, and I think you've got a working method down pat now. I'm not someone who sticks the the 3F method either, but it's essential that you're up-front with these ladies if you want to have longer hook-ups and stay out of trouble. Saying you're a big butterfly is always the best policy -- if there are ever any rough spots you can remind the girl you told her this. I often simply say over and over again that I'm only a customer, that I will go back to my regular life, and that what we're doing is a lot of fun but not real. (As far as the falling asleep scenario, I'd have just said that I intended to return, but she and the other girl made you so tired you just fell asleep. Nothing wrong with honesty as long as it has a bit of flattery or praise attached.)

Being generous in LOS translates into having a good heart, and that gets you through a lot of potential rough spots. By going into the bar, giving your regular a lot of power in terms of both returning to her and having her help with getting other girls, and being friendly and generous in the bar, you gave increased than reduced her "face."

My essential take is this -- these women are going to be in the game regardless of how we treat them. Treat them nice, joke with them, get little cheap gifts and pay lots of attention, and they're like any other woman -- they respond positively, are happy to see you, and reward you with attention and affection. Of course, that doesn't mean they're not going to try to run their various games on you (snaring a generous farang with a nice personality is still a goal) so you've got to be aware of that, but as long as you make your butterfly status clear and back off early if a girl starts to get too clingy in spite of that, you are generally in great shape. Getting the stories and hearing them gossip with you about the life is worth the price of admission sometimes, especially if you keep in mind that if your head's not on straight you could be the schmuck in some bargirl's story (as with 1ball's latest tale.)

Congrats on a great trip, and good luck on the next. It's great to have a comfortable place to go back to in LOS, where you're well-received and then fucked silly.

1Ball

12-22-03, 16:19

for those who have followed my little story about the BG who hooked up with a guy from EU, and was planning on moving there with him, one last post scriptum to close it out.

She received a mail from him a couple of days ago, breaking the whole thing off. He talked the whole thing over with his parents, (he is 36 years old), and they told him they didn't want him with a Thai woman, but rather a nice girl from his own country. He was supposed to arrive in LOS in 3 days to plan the future with her.

Regardless of what you all might be saying, (she deserves it, good for him, etc....), I feel bad for the girl. I think they all dream of a way out of spending their lives on their back, and even though a lot of them are not forced into this life, a lot of them don't see an end in sight. This was her ticket to a better life, and it's over for her, at least for now. I, for one, feel bad for her. (no, i am not taking his place, and she hasn't dared ask me for anything, and I know she won't).

I just feel bad her dream was shattered, call me a softie for thinking that.

1ball

Joe Zop

12-22-03, 16:24

Thanks for the postscript, 1ball. At least, due to her "cheating and lying" she's not stuck without her regular source of income for her kids now that the money will no longer come in from afar.

1Ball

12-22-03, 17:58

JZ, maybe I've been spending too much time over there, i just try to imagine what their life must be like, fucking a different sweaty drunk guy every night, i wouldn't want a life like that, who in their right mind would? I mean, imagine waking up in the morning, thinking to yourself you have to go be nice to some guy, in the hopes he is going to want to take you back to his room, and then hope he is not going to be physically abusive, and then hope he is going to give you a decent amount of money, and then, guess what, you get to do the same thing all over again the next day.

Most of the girls were not "sold" by the parents, they just had little or no education, and this is better than working in the rice fields, but it's still a shitty life. That's why I get pissed off when i see falangs treating the girls with little or no respect.

So i don't blame any of them for trying to get out of it. Let's face it, what are their hopes for the future.

PS. a few girls have told me a guy will take a fancy to them, invite them to go dancing, go eat a little something, spend the whole evening, then NOT invite them back to the room, coz they're too drunk, and then not give them money because there was no "boomboom". Are we paying just for sex, or for their time also? after all, had they not gone out for the evening with the guy, there might have been "boomboom" with another.

Maybe i am just feeling morose. i always get this way at Christmas !!!

1ball

Joe Zop

12-22-03, 19:49

1ball, I feel pretty much the same as you -- and that's not even taking the various risk factors (disease, violence, etc.) or the fact of basically being a social pariah into account. There have been plenty of accounts in this section of guys who basically decide they're getting X or Y sex act no matter what the TG has to say about it, since, hey, she's just hired meat. Heaven knows most of us would never agree to such a scenario for pretty much any amount of money, but, then, we've all got choices.

And I'm absolutely with you about paying not only for boomboom but for time -- if I'm going to spend more than an hour or so with a TG, in or out of the bedroom, she's getting tipped at least something. As you say, the time spent with me is money not earned elsewhere, and it's chump change.

And frankly, in my experience, operating that way ends up coming back to me in a million ways, from having TGs introduce me to their very nice (and at times inexperienced) friends to them just showing up with food or gifts or whatever. You noted earlier that the TG in question refused your money at one point -- my last trip, I not only had that happen, but as I'd explained to my regular that some money I was expecting was late (apologizing that we were not going to be able to do something we were planning on until later) she came over in a couple of hours with 4000baht to give me so I'd be "ok until real money comes." It turned out she'd borrowed most of it from a couple of friends to whom I'd given small short-term (one or two-day) loans of a couple hundred baht, all of whom had diligently repaid with profuse thanks. (Naturally I didn't need or take the money, as I wasn't that broke, just being careful until the cash-flow stuff sorted itself out.)

I simply always have sympathy for people who are trying to get by in situation's I'd personally find difficult to handle -- and this is definitely one of those. I sure as hell wouldn't want to get closer than the other side of the table to a high number of the farangs I've seen in LOS, for whatever reason.

1Ball

12-22-03, 20:07

JZ, amen to that, I see a lot of falangs out there who just have the " i don't give a shit" attitude, coupled with "I've got much $$$ in my pocket, and I'm going to do, and get what I want".
it turns my stomach to see these cute little things having to put up with it. But again, what are their choices ?

You and I have been to LOS many times, so we are able to get a feel for what is going on. we also don't drink too much. ( i remember you pacing yourself with a soda in between each drink). it's the guys who fly in for their one and only trip to LOS, and just treat these girls like meat. ( saw a poor BG a week ago, leaning into this drunk guy who was smoking a cigar, trying to pretend she was interested in what he was saying.... she was smiling away, even though his breath could have knocked over a horse. )

if i were a woman, and had to do this, i would kill myself !!!

1ball

Opebo

12-22-03, 20:41

Joe Zopp, 1ball,

You're both right, it is a hard job these girls have, but then again I think it is probably a lot easier than their other options. Plus its quite well paid. Most guys are no doubt a horrible pain to be around - and I'm sure the sex is by far the easiest part. The pretending to like the guy is what has to be, well, work. I only do short time because its difficult for me to be around a paid companion for more than an hour or so - it just seems utterly false, not at all fun, and very boring. Interestingly, many of the girls I take short time tell me they much prefer it that way as they can't stand having to deal with one guy for a whole overnight. They say talking to a guy that much is a bigger pain than having sex, even if the sex is demanding. I never flatter myself that the girls 'like' me, or are into me for anything other than money, as some on this board do. But I suspect you guys are right that a trouble free customer - and I'm definitely that - is appreciated. Ultimately the 'short time' guy is the least trouble and the best money. I would even go so far as to say the girls have a bit more respect for we short timers since we're not asking to be fooled by a purchased 'GFE'.

Tatoosh

12-22-03, 20:56

1ball

You're a softie!

I don't feel sorry for her. Not the way you do, anyway. Sure, if she wants out of the game, I hope she finds it. But not by pretending to be in love with someone she doesn't care enough for to be straight with him. (Please color me slightly hypocritical here.) She was smart not to put all her eggs in one basket.

But she was bouncing up and down on your dick while she thought the guy that loved her too much was coming to her rescue. So I guess I feel like it worked out just fine. He didn't get a wife that didn't really care that much for him, and she didn't get the free pass out of a life she doesn't like.

I'm not a steadfast 3F kinda guy, I like to think I'm a bit more along your lines in terms of being nice, treating well, but don't get involved big time. Your story only reinforces the Samus Aran rule, perhaps slightly modified.

Tatoosh

LittleBigMan

12-22-03, 22:10

JZ, 1Ball,

Well said by the both of you, always like to read JZ opinions and advice. They are always based on intelligent facts and experiences. Personal thanks to you JZ, and also if SA, can have his own, just as important views! Jackson should consider giviing Joe Z. his own site too!

Happy Holidays WSG members.
LBM

Joe Zop

12-23-03, 00:24

Well, personally, though I understand Jackson's reasons in segregating SA into his own section, I'd rather he were prowling around the rest of the board again, which I prefer myself, (and I'd far rather be prowling Bangkok right now with him, as well, so here's to ya, SA!) but thanks very much LBM for the kind thoughts. :)

And 1ball, I again very much agree on the drinking side of things. Frankly, I think it speaks well to the general character of the TGs we all run across in the trade that there aren't a ton more drunk farangs getting rolled and ripped off, as I've certainly run across any number of completely blotto ones who were easy pickings. Guys in most large cities in the US would not be nearly as lucky. I like a drink as much as anyone and more than most, (God save me and what's left of not only my soul but my liver from a room full of good single malts...) but I'm long past the idea that a night's just not really a night unless I can't remember my own name.

'Sides, sex is always far better if you're at least within a short walk of sober.