PDA

View Full Version : 2005 Thai Women - Opinions & Advice



Pages : [1] 2 3

Admin
01-01-00, 02:00
2005 Thai Women - Opinions & Advice

PosterLion
01-01-05, 00:00
Hey folks,

I feel I am on treacherous ground here as I am posting emails on this board that I did not write. This is going to be a one time event and it should be enough to appease the "Private Dancer" fans out there. I read the book long before I ever came to Thailand. I made some comments about it that Mr. D didn't agree with, but after reading this post I hope he understands that I got what was needed by glossing through its pages.

This post is a warning to all newbies and it will most likely be boring to most of the seasoned veterans. As I mentioned I have a job translating emails for Bar Girls. Some of them actually trust me with their personal email accounts and allow me to manage it any way that I please.

I am about to cross over some major ethical boundaries with this post and I will deserve any criticism I might receive. But I am doing this for you guys because I don't want any of you to end up like the man in this BGs emails. It is quite horrific if you ask me.

On a side note. I have no anymousity towards the girls for what they do. They have a life just like we do and it's not always easy. They do what they think they have to do. This is no different than a Wall Street Analyst or a Home Builder or a posterlion breaking the boundaries of ethical behaviour. They just happen to be prostitutes as we all have to be something.

I've thought long and hard about what I am about to do. Part of me says that I should not do what I am doing because it is the breaking of a trust. The other part of me feels obligated to try and prevent anyone else from this mans fate. The latter won in the end. It does make me a little nervous that this guy might one day read his emails on this board. That is a risk I will have to take, because if he had been reading this board in the first place he'd likely not be having his current troubles.

I emphasize this point because the TG in question is sleeping right next to me as I type this to you. She's a good girl and I of course love her in many ways, but they are ways that will not ruin my life like the ruined life of this other man. May he find some peace.

Hopefully you guys won't ostricize me for what I have done by pressing the submit button. Maybe I should delete this post and go back to sleep. It is possible that I may put the girl in harms way by sending this but the thought of one of you entering the reality of those emails is not a nice thought.

The girl is really pretty cool. Fuck yeah, she has her problems, but she does have a good, (yet mis-placed) heart. She actually does give away a lot of the monet this guy sends her to her friends and she enjoys being adored by them for it. It's just another case of a woman with a confidence problem, just as the guy that is giving her all his money suffers from the same thing.

I don't know what else to say except that the whole fucking world suffers from the same addiction, sex. Until we can get the 6.6 billion people on this planet from fucking each other silly, we are going to be reading a lot more stories like this one.

poster out

===

Out of respect for SA and his fading glory, I have removed the emails I previously posted. His time is coming to a close and I feel the need to help him save face. Therefore, I respectfully ask you to steer your browser to the Samus Aran section for all "Thai Women - Opinions and Advice."

He deserves it. After all, he is such an OLD timer. But please don't hold your breath for his advice. He spends most of his time (and rightfully so) on the driving range.

poster...

KJ Vegas
01-01-05, 01:28
PosterLion,

Great post and thanks for sharing. I've read "Private Dancer" a few years ago, great book, I think all newbies should read it on the plane over.

I go to LOS twice a year for about 2 weeks at a time, I've heard al the BS, BG stories. The TG's are alot of fun and treat us well but they are still working girls and are no to be trusted.

My advice for a newbie is to have a ball in LOS but leave your heart at home.
good luck.

KJ

John05
01-01-05, 01:46
"I emphasize this point because the TG in question is sleeping right next to me as I type this to you. She's a good girl ..."

Ummmm...NO! She is not a good girl. She will never be a good girl. Not even close. She is a con artist. She is receiving money from a man (actually pestering him for it) who thinks that he is helping her to buy a legit business. In reality, it is all pure B.S. on her part with you assiting in the process.

I have no problem with P4P girls any day. You pay the money and get your sex. However, it is funny that noone has put a hit out on these types of ripoff artists. It is much cheaper than supporting her sorry ass. Actually, very cheap in the LOS.

I had a bar girl try that crap with me once. She asked for 100,000 baht.."because mother sick." She went flying out the door with a shoe print on her butt. One year later she was still dancing at Kings Castle bar in Patpong. Her breasts were not so perky by then. I bar fined a hot new girl from the same bar that night. There is always a younger (not less than 18) and prettier bar girl out there. Never give them money unless you are living with them. Even then you have to keep them on a real short leash. There are thousands of love gone bad stories with these girls. Doesn't anyone RTFF? Remember the 4 Fs? Find them, feel them, fuck them and forget them. Nothing in there about paying thousands of dollars (or Euros) to support them while they waste it daily.

I know that if you did not screw the bar girl, or help her with the letters, some other expat would do it. But never justify a theif and act like you are providing some wonderful service by going along with the scam. There are a lot of pros in Bangkok who sell sex for money...so what? Many of them lie...so what? But don't think that the ones who extort money under false claims are good girls. They are real scum. No question about it.

BTW, not all of the guys who send money to bargirls are married and cheating. A lot of them are single and truly in love with the bargirl. Don't believe that psycho analysis B.S. about self esteem issues. Please! It happens in Bangkok...something about the GFE that sometimes makes guys fall in love with bar girls. That and thinking with their little head.

Maybe you should receive a piece of the money action. I suppose, in your mind, you might as well go along with the bar girls as you can't seem to resist being drawn in to their evil plots.

Jaimito Cartero
01-01-05, 02:53
Well, I can understand the desire to post it. Actually it sounds like it would make the nice heart of a book about Thailand.

Coma Boy
01-01-05, 13:06
LOL, poor misguided fools. Can't believe there are still men falling for these chick's bullshit. Funny though- som nam na!

I also translate e-mails for bar-girls (I don't charge them for it though), and see loads of the same thing.

Probably a good idea to post as a warning, although I normally side with the girls and help them to get as much money as possible when their guy sound like an asshole.

PosterLion
01-01-05, 19:20
JC and SM,

You've got a good point but this kind of book has been done oh so many times. Just look at how many quotes on this board come from "Private Dancer". Tina Turner had it right, "What's Love Got to do with It?"

Don't get me wrong, there is a huge place in my soul for Love, even if I am not entirely sure what it is myself. It seems it is many things and men that go through the experience of my last post are just a few of the souls that try to define it. I am still trying to figure it out myself.

I have been formulating the contents of the book that I WILL write in 2005 for the past few months. Sir Domino, thank you for reminding me that I need to have a plan, point well taken!

This book will at its core be influenced by the first (and maybe the last) Thai girlfriend I will ever have. My story with this girl is well documented in the anals of the 2004 WSG pages. It is not the fact that she is my first Thai girlfriend that I want no more girlfreinds.

It is the fact that I have had too many girlfriends in this life. I have had only one Thai girlfriend and as for my experience, Thai girls are not much unlike any other girl, just as we men are mostly the same the world over.

Anyway... When I decided to embark on this relationship with this particular girl, a Thai girl, I told her that she would be my last girlfriend. Maybe that sounds overly romantic, but I think it pertinent as most loves are for one reason or another, overly romantic.

As most of you know, I have called off or postponed my relationship with this well documented girl. It may come as a surprise to you that I did so because I thought it might be in her best interest and not mine. We still see each other because of our mutual need for companionship (we are both intellectuals, or stupid enough to think we are, basically, our form of companionship is framed by intense discussions of just about every topic known to man), but she is most likely going to marry with Mr. Japan. I congratulate them both if this happens.

One of the most poingant conversation I had with her was during a discussion of Siddthartha. She must have been surprised that I knew anything of the myth of Siddthartha. "Siddthartha is actually the name of Buddha," she said. "You must have been a good Catholic to know something like this. Siddthartha was to be reborn 108 times before he could reach the Nirvana and become the Buddha."

"His 107th life, the life before he became Siddthartha, is the most interesting myth next to the myth of Buddha himself. He was born a king with the name of Vessandorn. Vessandorn was a king of mercy. People could come to him and ask for anything and he gave them all, even his throne and his wife and kids. Can you believe that?

"Buddha is not a God, he is just a human being, but for me he is the smartest man on earth.

Somehow, this conversation with her became the defining moment in the saga of our relationship. And it seems to me that I must be a very arrogant individual, because I am sitting here laughing at myself, believing that I can give up everything. I guess I wanted to show her that there are still smart men on this planet (sic huh).

There is one thing that is certain. There is one thing that I can give up to any girl with a smile and that is my cock. It is a crazy cock but it is not a God, it is just a cock.

A good case in point is the girl that I was with last night. She is the source of the fantastic emails that I probably should not have posted. I am thinking of deleting them out of a bad feeling in my conscious for posting them in the first place.

On the other hand, maybe I can be overly optimistic about humanity and believe that the man that fell for this girl might develop a charitable and forgiving heart (although I recommend he stop sending her money).

Maybe my arrogant need to communicate to this world might somehow be salvaged and everyone will see that I did no wrong. I'll try to be optimistic, but I somehow think it will be in vain.

I can not think of anything that so metaphorically portrays the miracle of life than vanity. Vanity is the middle finger that says fuck you I am here and I am not going away. Vanity is the middle finger that has figured out it will soon perish and yet, it is so absorbed with itself that it has the absurdity to believe that it will return. Vanity is life and to be alive is to love. What can be more aburdly vain than that? My conclusion is that Nirvana must be nothing more than the lack of vanity. Nirvana is the death of life itself. Now you might ponder this so as to understand my undying faith in my optimism. :)

Last night I sent emails to four men from my new employer, the girl I most charitably donate my cock to. I was lying on the bed on my stomach typing on my laptop, while the girl was lying on my back, humping my ass with her pussy. She was very exctied and proud and beautiful, telling me what to say to these men. She bit my ear and said not to worry, I have only five customer, the four men that you sent the emails to and you. I am with you now and I will take care.

She smiles very well and she takes care very well. Hence the raptorous nature of my crazy cock. She is not a bad girl. She is just a girl, just as we are men. In the meantime, everyone in this world is trying to fuck or love someone. Someday we might know the difference.

I am still here on this planet, crazy cock and all, and I can only say that this issue might never be resolved, but I am sincerely trying to be... optimistic.

poster

JuiceSpike
01-01-05, 19:31
Absolutely great "field" reporting... Keep the emails in here (have not read them all yet) as it a great way to educate especially for the new cummers to the game.

It is a game, it is a game of survival. Not a cynical game because the more you understand the Asian "way" of living for women the more you will understand why this is a game. But, as in any game there are losers and winners.

juice

Joe Zop
01-01-05, 22:15
Poster, whether you help this girl with her emails or not will make utterly no difference to her or to her farangs. She's got her game going and will continue to do it until she is no longer able to or interested in doing so, and the guys who she's stringing would just be on someone else's string if not hers. Your posts of the emails here can have a positive effect by reminding guys that this stuff is real, and while their dicks may be their god, it does help to engage their brain once in a while as well.

It is, in fact, a blow for love, the same way is your walking away from a relationship because you care for the other person and don't think you're going to be what they need. Understanding what the real thing is and isn't -- and clearly the relationships this TG is in fall into the "isn't" category -- can only be good for people who are seeking love.

And I'm with you: there's already a "Private Dancer" so no need to write another. You've got your own story to tell.

PosterLion
01-03-05, 00:55
Out of respect for SA and his fading glory, I have removed the emails I previously posted. His time is coming to a close and I feel the need to help him save face. Therefore, I respectfully ask you to steer your browser to the Samus Aran section for all "Thai Women - Opinions and Advice."

He deserves it. After all, he is such an OLD timer. But please don't hold your breath for his advice. He spends most of his time (and rightfully so) on the driving range.

poster...

PosterLion
01-03-05, 01:01
Dear John,

Hey man!

I said that merely as a flippantcy. Jesus H Christ! Of course she isn't a good girl. But on the other hand, I don't see much difference between her and the "Good Guy" that is cheating on his wife. Nor do I see much difference between her and "Us Good Men" that are fucking the likes of her for money.

I am always drawn to evil plots as I am also drawn to the good ones. After all, I am a man that converted Catholisim at the age of 32. No one else in my family is Catholic.

Now feel free to tell me the evils of Catholism and I will listen with baited breath and baited ears. If you can convince me that Catholism is part of the evil plot of this world then I will reaffirm to you my affinity for evil. But just for an exercise, I think you should seriously consider the ground you are standing on before you decide to post, because I have read what you have wriiten.

Here is a section of your last post to me:

"I had a bar girl try that crap with me once. She asked for 100,000 baht.."because mother sick." She went flying out the door with a shoe print on her butt. One year later she was still dancing at Kings Castle bar in Patpong. Her breasts were not so perky by then. I bar fined a hot new girl from the same bar that night. There is always a younger (not less than 18) and prettier bar girl out there."

Here is my reply:

One year later you were back at King's Castle and you went for an 18 year old that had slightly less sagging tits than your previous fuck. I apologize, but I fail to see the black from the white here. What is the defining thing that makes you different from the "now saggy breasted one." All I can see is that you should have beat her to the punch and asked her for 100,000 baht first. :)

I am not harping on you. It's just that my eyes are so grey it's hard to see what is good and what is bad. Do you think you can help me out here?

I'd like to hear your detailed thoughts on this. If you agree to that challenge I will commend you no matter how you come off. At least you won't be playing it safe. :)

poster

John05
01-03-05, 01:51
Posterlion my friend,

It is your right to do whatever you like.

I never defended cheating by any husband. Of course it is not right. That is why there are so many divorces. It is life my friend.

In several Asian countries hookers are accepted as are mistresses. I can't say that ALL of the hookers are good or bad because there are hundreds of thousands of them in Thailand alone and I do not know all of their personal histories.

Helping hookers to rip off guys for money. Hmmmmm....that is wrong too. It is wrong to help the bar girls in these scams. You should already know that.

I was merely trying to show you that helping a bar girl to rob a man (because the dude was an A**hole) may not be the way to go. However, your logic must state: if you can't stop scam artists you should become one yourself. Whatever.

John05
01-03-05, 06:12
Poster you missed the point of the Kings Castle story. Your response to this one example was not logical at all. Like many bar girl scamers, this girl was still in the game long after her looks held up.

Like I said before....never give a bar girl any money which is not related to the sex she recently gave you. There is simply no need for it. Yes, we all are aware that you do not agree with the FFFF philosophy of the P4P game. It is not a matter of robbing a bar girl before they rob you. BTW, that would prove to be a very risky proposition. No need to feel sorry for her or to join her in her money scams against various farungs.

In Bangkok it is P4P...nothing more...and nothing less. I now can only hope that you consult with the famous Master Monger for guidance (you may require an intervention). He might give you a few pointers on the dos and don'ts of the P4P game. Check out his posts in the Cali section. When he comes to Thailand, perhaps he may be willing to teach you many things which you still have not learned about hookers. Noone else seems to be getting through to you.

Best of luck my friend.

Philo
01-04-05, 14:54
Originally Posted by John05 (in another thread):

We are Los Angeles, LA or So Cal but NEVER Cali....that is for tourists, rookies and people trying to be cool. Cali is for Cali, Colombia and we find that name to be insulting. I am not angry but I think a lot of people are more sensitive after we got a Governor who can not even pronounce the name of our state correctly... even though he has lived here for more than 30 years.

BTW, LOS is only used in the WSG. Grung Tayp is what the people in Bangkok call their city. The full name is really long and hard to remember but most Thais know (although many can't remember) because they learn it in school. It is really funny to see some places with the word Bangkok written in Thai as Bahn Gork. Like Bahn Gork Club or Bahn Gork Gold. Maybe our Governor Arnold used to live in Thailand before he came to LA.

(End of quote)

A man on this board who doesn't know that LOS does not refer to Bangkok would be wisely advised not to keep a too high profile.

And when I see that you are a supporter of master monger (sic ...), I can only give you the same diagnosis I gave him - you must be more stupid than even the least intellectually gifted TG.

In addition - you now know - but never admitted your former ignorance - that the word Bangkok has sound linguistic roots in Thai. Thanks to me :)

John05
01-04-05, 19:56
Philo

Thanks for you linguistics information. You are right that the Land of Smiles refers to Thailand and not Bangkok. My bad on that one.

Philo
01-05-05, 19:24
:)

Never mind.

And this info (from a Thai web-site; not my spelling) is good for the interested ones:


"The name 'Bangkok' was derived from 'Bang Kork' and refers to the original site. Bangkok is also means as the City of Olives" as Bang means City and kok means Olive as Bangkok has alot of Olives during the past but now vanished."

Vince the Dog
01-15-05, 09:05
Not!

I've been calling this girl I met a Kung King Bar on Soi 3 Pattaya. After I got back to the US I was getting lonley so I started calling her. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of having a romance when there will be a hundred thousand to choose from when I go back in april. She back in Udon Thani with her family and daughter. We've been talking(phone sex) for about two weeks and I was wondering how long it would be before she would hit me up for money or marriage or both. So here's the story. I'm curious how much of this may be true. Maybe its all true. Maybe none. Who knows.

She says she loves me and wants to marry me but, she mortgaged her house to pay 350,000 baht to a service that will find her a farang husband. The man that shes been emailing but doesn't love is coming at the end of the month and she has to decide between me and him. If she cancels to wait for me to come to LOS in a couple months she will lose her home.

I told her she would probably be better off with the other guy. I didn't post this because I need help deciding what to do since I'm not a total idiot but I thought you guys might find this interesting and I am curious if the ladies really do pay money to services like this. I have a hard time believing a 19 year old working girl has a house that can be mortgaged for that much.

The Traveler
02-26-05, 09:31
Vince the Dog,

the answer is easy : NO !!!

It sounds like a scam and most likely is. I have never heard that any marriage agency will charge you such a high amount. Maybe a couple of tenthousand, but only in case of success, not in advance. If it would be true, she must be mindless and is responsible for this stupid behaviour.

Furthermore it is most likely that the land - and therefore the house which resides on the land - is owned by her parents, not her. So she can't loose that house, it doesn't belong to her. She couldn't mortgage it, only her parents can and if they did, definately for some other reason.

Anyway, she has a way out of that "misery", staying with the other guy or at least let him pay.

JuiceSpike
02-26-05, 16:20
Vince,

That's a lot of money for phone sex...:D

juice

Nefarious
02-27-05, 04:33
I'm sorry to say, but you just have to listen to that gut feeling that is telling you that something isn't quite right. In this case, there seem to be all kinds of red flags. You did the right thing. No question about it.

Now, the one I'm in love with is different. lol :)

Coma Boy
02-27-05, 04:44
Bar-girls NEVER tell lies, you should send her as much money as possible, as soon as possible.

Vince the Dog
03-08-05, 05:04
I think Member is right! I'm going to send the 350,000 Baht. I figure as of last nights phone call that thats about 10 Baht per stroke.

Can anyone recommend a good wire tranfer method. I don't want to spend to much on the transfer. I'm a smart consumer.

LOL

Thumbs Up
03-08-05, 08:57
Just make sure it's monopoly money. She'll get the point. Also, include a picture of your middle finger extended, just for good measure.

B Cowey
03-08-05, 14:38
Western Union is your best bet as they are all familiar with it. It is quick and from your point of view not visible through your bank as it is a cash transaction. Just text her Ref the number and she can pick it up in any post offfice in Thailand.

Jaimito Cartero
03-08-05, 17:23
I think Member is right! I'm going to send the 350,000 Baht. I figure as of last nights phone call that thats about 10 Baht per stroke.

Can anyone recommend a good wire tranfer method. I don't want to spend to much on the transfer. I'm a smart consumer.

LOL

Usually cash in a postal envelope is the best way.

Gladiator
03-08-05, 21:58
I would wire her 360k bahts so that with the extra 10k she can take out a good health insurance for her mother in case she gets sick in the future – this will eventually save you money.

Nyc Expat
03-08-05, 23:48
I am disappointed Vince asks a legitimate question and some of you contribute meaningless remarks.

I think she is scamming you. However, if you send, do NOT send cash. Western Union is best. You can eventually send half as a test of her sincerity
towards you. Good luck.

Joe Zop
03-09-05, 04:44
Umm, I believe we're seeing a wee bit of irony impairment.

Vince the Dog
03-09-05, 06:23
I would wire her 360k bahts so that with the extra 10k she can take out a good health insurance for her mother in case she gets sick in the future – this will eventually save you money.
Thats funny. Thanks for the Advise.

She just called and tried to "hit me up" for 20,000 Baht. She said her father told her to ask. I remember her mentioning her "Papa" when she asked for the 350,000.

This started out as a fun little game and now I regret it. I'm not going to answer the phone anymore. I'm going to Thailand in May and don't want any problems, just a bunch of ST

JuiceSpike
03-09-05, 14:49
Joe,

Yep, impairment is a very nice way to put it. I was thinking about dickhead :D

Vince,

I think you got your hired friend on cloud 9 thinking she just scored big time with a Farang... there is more damaged done to a working girl making her believe she hit the jackpot than just taking her for a short time (yeah, you can be romantic if your foolish heart desires) and making it clear you are in for the sex only.

If you think or feel you are important becuase you "get hit" for some change by a bar girl and you feel you are king of the world you are being a dickhead. :D... She is about to fuck another guy while you run to Western Union...

Someday I will open a bar in Bankok (called Mongers) and have drinks names like:

Dickhead
Shithead
Monger Paradise
SA in BKK
Short time Smart
LOS Thai Style (you will wake up broke the next day)
Serial Monger
Domino's Skanks
Surin Delight
Smoke CockTail
Wanker Farang
Juicy Juice
Etc....

juice

Freeler
03-09-05, 17:08
Yep,

It's like the Jam sang ages ago: 'Girl on the phone keeps-a-ringing back!"

"She is about to fuck another guy while you run to Western Union..."
What makes you think she wasn't fucking some guy while she was on the phone to Goofy?
I once fucked an Argentinian girl in The Hague when she was setting up an appointment with some selfproclaimed high-roller. Believe me, girls can fuck and have a telephone conversation at the same time.

Jaimito Cartero
03-09-05, 17:35
Believe me, girls can fuck and have a telephone conversation at the same time.

The question is, do you try to be quiet when you're fucking them, or do you try to increase the pace and the noise? :)

JuiceSpike
03-09-05, 19:02
The question is, do you try to be quiet when you're fucking them, or do you try to increase the pace and the noise? :)

Make NOISE during the middle of the conversation so that the guy starts asking what was that sound, what are you doing now, are you alone, is there a guy with you, are you getting fucked now!!??

:D

juice

Freeler
03-09-05, 19:04
Jaimito,

She was on the phone when I walked past thinking: Nope. And then she signaled me to cum in. She put one foot on the bed, bent over slightly and moved her panties aside.
How can a man resist such temptation and live?
I fucked her loud and proud but she just talked all the way through it...

JuiceSpike
03-09-05, 19:35
Jaimito,
I fucked her loud and proud but she just talked all the way through it...

You are a perv and it pervs you right....:D

juice

Vince the Dog
03-09-05, 21:25
there is more damaged done to a working girl making her believe she hit the jackpot than just taking her for a short time (yeah, you can be romantic if your foolish heart desires) and making it clear you are in for the sex only.

I totaly agree. I never led her on because of that. I feel bad for all these girls becuse of what they have to go through. I made it clear to her that I liked being with her when I was there and looked forward to see her again. On the phone we never talked romanticly just dirty and we both had fun doing it. It was her that started the marriage talk followed by the request for money.

Its hard for me to communicate on these forums and it looks like things get mis understood easily.

I never led her on. I never believed a word out of her mouth. I never felt important, macho or special because poor girls give me attention. I was joking when I said I would wire her money.

The two times she asked for money she said it was her papa that asked her to call and that its ok if a can't send it. I think she is a good person thats being told what to do by her "papa". Im very good to these women and believe you should be. It became a game only after she started to try get money from me. If i ever sounded cold hearted its just my sense of humor.

I believe there is a "Dick Head" in this story and its her father. If he didn't put her up to this we may have gotten together and maby got along for a while.

JuiceSpike
03-09-05, 21:50
Vince,

I know you were joking and I was just pulling your leg a little...:D

But maybe you did not get my joke...:(

juice

Vince the Dog
03-09-05, 21:58
Vince,

I know you were joking and I was just pulling your leg a little...:D

But maybe you did not get my joke...:(

juice

Yeah. I hope me email didn't sound hostal it wasn't. Its so frustrating for me to communcate in these forums. Its all good!

LOL

Gladiator
03-09-05, 22:24
Believe me, girls can fuck and have a telephone conversation at the same time.


Very true.

Girls can even give you a BBBJ and have a telephone conversation at the same time, it happened to me once in Rio, the phone rang when she had just started the BBBJ, she asked me if it was ok to reply, I agreed and then she started talking on the phone and went on with the BBBJ.

It wasn’t a sucker but just a friend of hers, another girl. When she picked up the phone she said in Portuguese ‘hi, are you ok? I’m actually sucking a dick right now…’ – she just stopped briefly each time she said something and then went on while she was listening.

To my surprise, I liked it! It was a new experience. I even felt a bit sad when the phone conversation ended.

Andix
03-18-05, 04:00
Hi to all,

I want to check on feedback from the "experts" on this subject. I know a thai lady for quite a while now. Recently, we were joking about her being pregnant with me. And then, last time I saw her she seemed to be very serious about getting pregnant with me. She clearly indicated that she wants to do that, without any mentioning about marriage or anything like that!! Apparently she is not asking for anything else.
Anybody else had similar "challenge" ? Is there a catch here? Is this a scam ? Can she get anything out of this from me if I agree to do what she wants ?

I want to make sure that if, somehow she gets pregnant with me, I will not have to "pay" for this if don't want to.

Waiting for opinions or similar experiences ..

Coma Boy
03-18-05, 04:26
There's really no point providing a Thai lady with a Luuk Kreung if you're not going to stick around.

I've had a lot of girls ask to have my baby, and nothing else. They've said I don't need to take care, or even see the baby. But I know that I'd want to see, and wouldn't be able to resist taking care of a baby should I spawn one (despite my hatred of children).

I was even offered payment of 250,000 Baht to impregnate one Bangkok lady. Her family were super-rich and so I was almost tempted. Not for the money but because I knew her well-enough, and long enough, to know that she really does want a mixed-race kid, yet doesn't need a father around. In Thailand these days such offspring are considered valueable assets as they'll stroll into jobs in the entertainment industry if they come from the right background.

But, in general, it is a trap that I'm sure many a guy has fallen into. Once the baby is born there may also be pressure or emotional blackmail to take care of the kid. Plus, if you thought your kid was going through hard times how could you not look after it? Even if you didn't meet the child you'd have to be a cold-hearted fucker not to have it's best interests at heart.

If you really want to have a baby that you will never see, make sure it is in a country you will never return to, with a girl who has no way of contacting you, and you her. Some girls really do just want a luuk-kreung and don't want the smelly Farang hanging around after conception.

Think of it as anonymous sperm donation, or full parenthood, but nowhere in between.

CB.

Andix
03-18-05, 04:39
Member #2967, thanks for your feedback.
But I still don't know if legally she can claim anything from me in this situation. I know that Thailand does not have the stupid laws of California, for example. But I was wondering if I come back to Thailand after this (should) happen, can she legally claim anything from me ?

Domino
03-18-05, 05:00
Andix

I would hope you would show some self restraint and maybe keep your dick in your pants. Why would you want to have a baby with a skank and then walk away to leave her literally holding the baby? The baby and its mother and her family will have a long and hard road in front of them. Life is hard for poor half caste cast offs and,in many cases, they end up on Pattaya's Beach Road and similar places (I have posted photos of some half castes I have fucked).

I know I have my occasional critics here. But, for the record, I actually admire most of the women who go out and fuck farang losers so their children can live. I certainly admire them much more than the assholes who impreganted them and then walked away from their responsibilities.

Andix
03-18-05, 05:19
Domino,
I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. And believe me, I will not be one of those assholes who walks away.
But ... one wants to know all the implications of this kind of situation !

Please keep the feedback on this subject coming..

Coma Boy
03-18-05, 05:26
Despite Domino and myself being geniuses, you're much better off asking a lawyer.

In fact, you're much better off, doing as D suggests- keep your dick in your pants.

CB.

JuiceSpike
03-18-05, 05:37
Andix,

CB is right but Domino nailed it. As a monger you would never want to get a working girl pregnant to satisfy your ego as that girl would have a hell of a time raising that kid. Especially if she was poor.

I have the feeling you have already got her pregnant. Your questions seem to gage the ethics and legal issues from posters...

If you already did that to her intentionally and walk away you are loser and a complete asshole. These girls are for fucking not for getting them pregnant.

juice

Andix
03-18-05, 06:02
JuiceSpike,

Your assumptions are wrong! Dead wrong !!

I am just facing a new thing that I know nothing about and ..I also happen to like that girl. I just don't know what to do. Should I do it or not? That's it.
And I don't think there is anything wrong to try to get informed on such an important matter. One never knows what could happen.

Andix

Joe Zop
03-18-05, 07:06
Andix, a couple of small questions:

1) One key aspect that has not been addressed is this: Why would YOU want to do this? What would be in it for you, other than banging a girl who presumably you can already bang? If you imagine some kind of long-term connection, why are you worrying about paying or not paying?

2) Outside of the legal ramifications, for which I agree with other folks you should consult a lawyer, there are the emotional ones. If you decide to "give" this girl a baby, yuo are at the very least saying you've got a kid in LOS, who you've intentionally created, and it's up to you to decide how to act with that. Regardless of whether you perceive this woman as trying to get her hooks into you or not, what do you expect your reaction to be when she asks for money for the son/daughter you've fathered?

I guess my point is that the legal aspects are truly the least of the issue.

Jaimito Cartero
03-18-05, 08:30
If it's a boy, you can name him Sue.

I've had some of the same comments, "I want to have your baby", but I would never intentionally do it. I usually laugh off any such comments.

B Cowey
03-18-05, 10:23
Andix,

Be very careful guy, as Thailand has child maintenence agreements with most countries in the west. And a sharp Thai lawyer will come after you and be able to persuse through the courts in your country. And then you are signed up for the next 18 years.

SB Lumens
03-18-05, 10:51
You love the girl, then what?

I have 3 children, each of whom I love dearly. I cannot imagine the impact of not being in their lives.

So are you seriously considering creating an instantly fatherless child, who will be raised by what is clearly a selfish and immature woman??

How could this possibly benefit you?? Please, please eliminate this pregnancy possibility from your options!! Would you really want this for your son or daughter?

Think about your own upbringing. Would you want to be dumped with that??

SB

JuiceSpike
03-18-05, 15:23
Good to hear my assumptions were wrong.

Duh, of course many women all over the world would want a guy to get them pregnant for many reasons.

You happen to "like" the girl but that is really no good reason to get her pregnant. You don't know what to do? You ask if you should do it?

I hope you have some maturity in deciding your teenage like dilemma.

juice

Member #2041
03-18-05, 19:47
Andix,

Do you love her enough to Marry Her - and does she love you enough to Marry YOU? If the answer to both of these questions is yes, then I would say, go ahead - completely change both of your lives, marry her, and have a baby with her.

Otherwise, I would say that you would have to be completely crazy.

MeatMan
03-19-05, 00:59
I find that communicating with some Thai women can sometimes be a pain. They'll say hello("sawsadee kha") but leave you to do all of the talking. They'll respond with either a yes or a no. Can you guys deal with that?? If some you guys are looking for a long term relationship, communication is the key.

Some Thai women tend to think with simple lines of thought and don’t prefer to strain their brains. They would rather just sit back and listen than engage in a healhty conversation where you solicit their thoughts and opinions on a subject. It can also lead to problems in the relationship because things that you thought she knew or understood, you later find out that she had no clue about.

When the lines of communication begin to get crossed, there is bound to be a bump in the relationship. I have found out that when I am chatting with one of these fine ladies they claim to understand what you are saying, but if you ask them to repeat what you said, they get clueless.

Hey, maybe they didn’t want to admit they didn't understand because they thought they were losing face, hell I wouldn't know.

The farangs are as much to blame for this as the women, because you could argue that we should know and respect their culture just as they should know ours. It will pay dividends to gain a command of the language, as I have currently begun to attempt (it's hard as fuck, but I'm sticking with it).

After all, why should we as "farangs" assume that the poor lady responsible for knowing English while we don’t have to learn Thai?

By the way, I know this is a sex fourm, but I had to chime in on this...couldn't help myself.

MeatMan

JuiceSpike
03-19-05, 02:27
MeatMan,

Hmm, I have had different experiences than you with "regular" Thai women in which even with a small amount of English level they talk, talk, and talk their brains off. Maybe you need to let them talk? I often do this as I enjoy listening them talk and love the accent.

Maybe is the type of women you are meeting but I always hang out with "regular" women with a good personality that likes to bla, bla, bla...

Also, some working girls are very talkative and have a great sense of humor and many are smart, at least street smart for sure.

Thai women love to laugh and like silly type of humor. Maybe you could break the ice a little more and then they would open up (not just the legs pervs) and they will talk non-stop.

When they talk non-stop I tell them to shut up, in a funny way. Or spank them, that always works... :D

juice

Andix
03-19-05, 05:54
Thanks to all of you for your feedback and opinion on the subject of a "thai girl wanting to get pregnant".

It is even more clear to me now that this is a very serious matter, regardless of the maturity and intentions of the girl. I fully agree that one should never intentionally create a fatherless or abandond child. If (which I don't think will happen) I go ahead with the request, I will do it only if I commit (to myself) that I will support the child.

Andix

Domino
03-19-05, 08:06
I am thinking of transferring both my interests and my semen to the Philippines from Thailand for the following reasons:
1. Better English;
2. Poorer;
3. Whackier.
4. Whackier.
5. Whackier.
Have I missed anything? Is there any reason to prefer Thailand over the Philippines, by which I do not mean Angeles and the slums of Manila?
If you have noticed a drop in my posting levels, this is because I am now hopelessly in love with about a dozen Philippinas, all of whom are trying to con money out of me in the most delectable of ways. I always remember dear Sebu Local telling us that a Pinay would take a bullet for us. Here's hoping.

On the money conning, I recently spent some pleasant time in Bangkok's Jools Bar where that hideous Private Dancer is based. The place was full of Jocks, none of whom I or anybody else could understand. However, the ladies serving there could, as part of the converstation, rattle off all the money grabbing excuses from the buffalo to the motorbike accident and brother's katoey operation I guess this just proves it is not the punchline but the way you deliver it. Which brings me back to the Pinays, who have more "take a bullet and a dick" appeal.

There is also the problem that, as so many of the skanks are ugly, I often think I am having sex with a monkey. But so do they, as I am a hairy monkey who likes to flash his big banana to the world's skanks.

I also feel there is more life and vibrancy in the Philippines. All Sukumvit and Pattaya have going for them are viagra, skanks and some good rip off software, which is a problem in the Phils. Though software is a problem, take a bullet skanks are not.

MeatMan
03-19-05, 13:41
Juice,

A lot of it depends on one's "born in" environment, alternatives, age, genetic appearance, upbringing, lifestyle, preferences, values, interests etc. But you'd know that from your experiences.

But enough of the small talk, I'm here to fuck, and whatever Thai woman (or ANY women for that matter) I chat with better know what my intentions are! ;)

PsyberZombie
03-19-05, 15:41
so your thai girl wants to get pregnant by you ??

better read this first =

jdman is no fool. two previous marriages to american women left him financially burned and he’s in no hurry to marry again. he still has a retirement income of $100,000 a year, though, so his new life in thailand should be very comfortable – if he plays his cards right. this is why he needs our help and advice.

can a thai girl be sincere about wanting kids outside of a marriage? i have a dream of moving to thailand to live and raise a family with an "ex-bargirl" who i have known for four years. so many of the posts suggest this will be a huge mistake. however, i am very committed to the goal and would appreciate feedback on how to do it safely and with the highest probability of success.

i have travelled to thailand at least a dozen times over the last six years and fell in love with the place on my first visit. like most men in their late 40's i was immediately enthralled by the beauty, grace, and fun-loving nature of thai girls. i have been married twice to american girls and while both were great ladies initially, things went south eventually. most annoying was that they both let themselves go physically while i kept myself in great shape (6'2'' 185). eventually it turned me off to look at them and my dick told them what was "going down" so to speak.


i had no biological kids with my two wives (long story but i know i'm not shooting blanks). now at 52 i feel the biological urge to have a family even if i don't live to see my daughter get married or son graduate from college. call it a need to leave a dna legacy behind. however, donations to the sperm bank don't quite cut it. i am convinced that either there will not be another marriage on the cards for me, or it will be to a non-american/non-western girl. as far as i can tell, thai girls seem devoted to their families and probably make good moms. unlike western girls, they bounce back physically after babies as evidenced by the numerous bargirls who look great after one or two kids (albeit a few stretch marks). i think i would be happy living there in a retired status. money will not be a problem since i estimate that my investments will provide me with nearly $100,000 a year and i can make the required large deposit in a thai bank.
when i first visited thailand, i started out like a man who had been starved of sex for twenty years. i couldn't have enough girls and i took them out of bars two or three at a time for the most outrageous parties in my room. however, i was eventually smitten by one of these girls. over the last couple of years and six visits i have seen only her. the sheets are soaked morning, noon and night by this thai tiger. she considers me her "boyfriend" rather than "friend" (for what that is worth). i love her for sure and virtually all things about her. she has a great personality - easy going, gentle nature, sense of humor, fun loving, and a sensual/sexy confidence i have seldom experienced (no towel hang-up, photos and video... dee mak mak!). oh yeah, she is one of the most beautiful women i have ever known and the best lover i have ever had. since thai girls have this effect so often on western men, all i can think is that they are hard-wired to please men (at least the men that treat them right... with kindness and cash). my work actually allowed me to meet professional thai women as well as the usual bargirls. i think the way thai women treat men is cultural and not just a bargirl "con" as pointed out in other letters and emails. however, perhaps i am being treated particularly well by all thai women because i have a high professional status. i also do like to spread money around and it's hard for my girlfriend, her family, and her friends not to notice that.

now our relationship consists of visits to bangkok 3-4 times a year, usually for a week each. we email each other virtually every day and talk on the phone occasionally. she has a passport but so far we have not started meeting in europe for holidays as we have discussed. getting her into the usa for a visit seems nearly impossible as best i can tell. any suggestions for locations in europe that she can travel to on an easy-to-obtain tourist visa?

i have supported my girlfriend for about two years now. she says that she hasn’t been working the bars but i know that she still parties a lot (goes to the full moon party occasionally, tells me about outings to play pool, go bowling, karaoke, movies, get drunk with her "girlfriends" who are all ex-bar girls as best i can tell, etc.) i know thai people like "sanook" and i can't expect her to not go out and occasionally get laid at her young age. safe sex is a must though. i do the same here to stay alive and can't expect a double standard. however, i buy her story that if i moved to thailand, all this would end and she would want to try to have a family with me right away. this "dream" of hers was volunteered to me before i let her know i was getting interested in that too. she is 28 and she may feel she is getting old to have kids (obviously she's not by western standards). she thinks her plumbing is in order and has no std's (we'll get tested again before the condoms are history). she says she wants her own baby bad and proof of that is that she sometimes takes care of her 2 year old nephew; i've seen this and it looks natural. she tells me that marriage is not an issue with her because she knows i will take care of her and our baby. she's right about that too. things would have to go very bad for me not to do that.

surprisingly this girl has never asked for any money. once her grandmother was sick and she suggested the family was scraping up 50,000 baht for treatment. i gave it too her and met her sick grandmother. however, she died anyway about three months later. at first i just gave her "nit noy" baht... giving her enough money for school, buying her a computer, and paying living expenses (since she was sharing a condo with another girl who was set up by her boyfriend). now i pay for her small apartment outside of bangkok near her family's place; i've met her family and vacationed with them. i contributed about $6000 toward this effort over the last two years. i'm pretty sure she doesn't work at a bar anymore and her english and computer skills are improving with the school. i know from independent sources that she is attending. however, when we go out together she gets hit on by usually younger guys. so obviously she could "work the street" if she wanted. she likes to say that this happens only when she is with me. she says it's because we look so good together dancing and are obviously in love. nice thought, but this girl is gorgeous too. no matter how good i might look, 24 years difference is obvious and young studs in bangkok love to do the "take away fast break" (as the say in the nba). my defense has so far held up nicely, mainly because of her resolve.

so here are my questions.

1. if i move to thailand to retire (i think the required age is 54 now), how should i set up a household with this girl? i could afford servants (perhaps two that spoke reasonable english). is it a good idea to have employees around or should we try to make this work one-on-one? i could also see how it might make life less boring for her to have people around doing the scut work (cooking, cleaning, baby care, etc.), who spoke both thai and english. it would allow us more time to enjoy the things we like and give the kid a better chance to grow up bilingual. i speak very little thai but will try to learn more.


david replies: $100,000 a year will allow you to set up any kind of household you like. almost everyone here has a maid (or a regular maid service) and, if you travel a lot, you might want a driver too. the trick is to prevent the driver from seducing the maid. you don’t want the pair of them ganging up on you.

it’s unlikely that your maid will speak much (if any) english but life will certainly be much easier with her around. you’ll never have to argue with your girl about who does the chores. however, you’ll need to behave yourself because she won’t hesitate to report your misdemeanors back to your girlfriend. learning some thai before you arrive is a great idea. i recommend the excellent linguaphone thai course (see how i learned thai with linguaphone). your kids will grow up bilingual in any case.

2. will there be any problem getting our kids into an english school in bbk if we are not legally married?
david replies: so long as they meet the academic entrance requirements and you have enough money, you can send your kids to whatever international school you like. a legal marriage is less important then the child’s nationality – or lack of it. i haven’t researched the topic but i’m led to believe that the nationality of the declared father is a key issue in determining whether the child can be registered as a thai citizen or not. you need to get some decent legal advice or your kids could end up as stateless people with a bleak future. can a knowledgeable reader advise?

3. should i agree to buy a house or condo only after we have a kid – a proof of sorts that this is not a full blown con? since i am well off, giving her a house after we start the family might be a way to test the loyalty issue. if that's all she wants, then she will dump me shortly after the house is in solely her name. i have made worst investments in my life.
david replies: like all women, she will consider staying with you for only so long as she has a good incentive. putting valuable assets in her name will reduce this incentive and therefore increase the likelihood of her walking away. is this what you want? the age gap is 24 years so, to be brutally honest, you can’t rely solely on your youth and good looks to keep her interested. wealth is your trump card so, for heaven’s sake, don’t throw it away. look after her well but don’t dump millions of baht on her.

in practical terms, this means renting a home instead of buying. buying a property in thailand is exceptionally risky. guarding against heavy losses requires expert local knowledge. renting, on the other hand, is cheap, easy and hassle-free. you’ll be amazed at the quality of the properties on offer. if you do eventually decide to buy a place then it will have to be a condo. foreigners aren’t allowed to own land (though there are various ways around this – all of them dubious) but don’t be tempted to buy a property in her name.

if you put her family on the monthly payroll (i’m assuming that they’re poor) they’ll put enormous pressure on her to keep you happy. if she fucks up, they’ll be on your side. in thailand, the guy holding the cash is the one who calls the shots. foolish men who sign their assets away don’t get gratitude or loyalty in return – just an expensive lesson in human nature.

4. if she is willing to have a kid outside of marriage, does that say anything?
david replies: it says that she wants to stay aboard your gravy-train if and when you split up. once she’s packed it off to live with her mother, she can carry on with her carefree life in bangkok at your expense.

5. if the relationship did go south for any reason, what is the worst that could happen to me in thailand? if i have a kid with her outside of marriage, is there any way that a thai lawyer can go after me there? how about legal action back in the usa with the help of a us lawyer (for child support, or claiming 1/2 my money under "common-law wife" or "co-habitation" laws operative in some states)? does thailand have anything like those nasty laws?
david replies: i don’t know whether unmarried foreign partners are permitted to seek child support through the us courts – or through the thai courts, for that matter. perhaps a knowledgeable reader can advise.

what i would say, however, is that most thais prefer "direct action" to legal action – because the legal system here is a joke. if you split up, your girl will probably snatch the child and demand money for its care or safe return. she will also try to seize houses, cars and other valuables – even if you are the legal owner. you should bear in mind that your legal rights (such as they are) are hard to enforce here and the police won’t help you. the remote possibility of legal action in the us is the least of your worries.

6. it makes sense to me to not put myself in the position of her inheriting anything upon my death (e.g., co-ownership, or sole ownership by her but with a 30 year lease to me, for example). i don't want to provide the motivation for "an accident" to happen to me (not that i'm worried about that but why not be careful). i can always give her a yearly gift for her to invest for her future.
david replies: i couldn’t agree more. the murder of farang husbands for cash is commonplace in thailand and the perpetrators usually get away with it. make sure that their profit motive is directed towards keeping you alive and happy (see would your thai wife murder you for cash?).

7. finally, does anyone know us immigration law? if living in thailand gets old, is there any way i could move my kid, her, or both of them to the us without legally marrying her? if so, which state of the usa? having lost 1/2 my life savings twice to divorces, i'm less than keen on legally binding arrangements. thanks for the comments.
david replies: the short answer is that i don’t know but, bearing in mind the almost impossible obstacles faced by married couples who wish to relocate to the us, i’d suggest that you prepare yourself for a lengthy and, most likely, permanent stay in thailand. personally, i can think of no better place to settle down. can another knowledgeable reader advise?

conclusion
so far, your relationship with this beautiful young thai girl has played out rather well. she has good reason to feel affectionate towards you because your money gives her a comfortable life and she no longer has to sell her body (unless she feels like it).

the subject that we haven’t touched on yet is the delicate matter of her other boyfriend – the guy who took her to the full-moon party. maybe he’s a farang english teacher in his twenties or early thirties who boasts to friends that his thai girlfriend doesn’t take money from him. by supporting her, you’ve been doing him a big favour these last two years and he probably knows all about you. he might also be reading this article. you’ve already accepted that she fools around while you’re away in the us for 49 weeks of the year but the fact that she’s probably in love with another guy might be harder to deal with.

the current arrangement works well for everyone so long as you remain in the us. when you come to live over here, however, many problems will arise – and not just the ones that you asked us about. she’s an absolute stunner. i’m not convinced that she’ll freely give up her boyfriend(s) and carefree party-girl lifestyle to lead a quiet life with a middle-aged man. i reckon that she’ll try to square the circle by two-timing you. have fun with her by all means but, if you take the relationship too seriously, you might end up very unhappy. you’re a wealthy guy with loads of options so you don’t have to settle for this.

if i had 1 baht for every guy who told me that his (ex-) prostitute girlfriend was "different" i’d be well on the way to filling a second jam-jar. every fella sees his favourite girl as a good and honest person "underneath" despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary. as men, it’s in our nature.

i accept that gold is occasionally found in the gutter but i would suggest that you don’t rush into child-rearing until you’ve lived with your girl for a year or so. my girlfriend reckons that, during a live-in relationship, thai women can mask their true personality for anything up to six months.

despite reading the horror stories on the internet, every farang man new to thailand makes the mistake of falling in love with a prostitute – and some do it repeatedly. most of us live to tell the tale, though, and it could be seen as a right of passage. if approached in the right way, the experience can also be highly enjoyable.

good luck with your new life in thailand.

Andix
03-20-05, 18:34
PsyberZombie,

Great stuff. Excellent. Thanks.
Can you point me to the place where this stuff comes from ? I would like to read more of this. It would really help.

Thanks ... Andix

Coma Boy
03-20-05, 19:13
Dude, cut off your dick before it's too late.

Or, at the very least, crush your balls with a hammer.

Hurry! Do it now! Go!

SB Lumens
03-22-05, 10:31
Thanks to all of you for your feedback and opinion on the subject of a "thai girl wanting to get pregnant".

It is even more clear to me now that this is a very serious matter, regardless of the maturity and intentions of the girl. I fully agree that one should never intentionally create a fatherless or abandond child. If (which I don't think will happen) I go ahead with the request, I will do it only if I commit (to myself) that I will support the child.

AndixMake a baby?

Hello,

I did write a reply, but it is not posted yet.

I am the one who wrote as the father of 3 wonderful children.

I do not aim to criticize you, but rather to implore you to think about your poor son or daughter that you would be literally abandoning in miserable conditions!!

Don't you have more respect for your genes than that?

How could you even consider condeming such an UTTERLY INNOCENT being to such a life (50, 60, 80 yrs?). What if your parents held your life in such low regard? Would you be the same person you are now?

If you are a decent person, you will make a great father. PLEASE DO NOT father a son or daughter that will not have the advantages of your support, care, and guidance.

Peace,

SB Lumens

Hot Diggidy Dog
03-28-05, 09:08
Taking a wife and her child (your or someone else's) to the US is easy if you're a citizen.* There's some paperwork, but even operating on Thai time a few months will do everything. The biggest holdup is waiting for an interview, as there're thousands of fat, hairy, old pussy hounds ahead of you in line to take 'their' bargirl to the US. It's not if you're a legal permanent resident (or I should say it's easy but you'll have to wait for years to do it).

Taking a woman you happen to bang to the US is essentially impossible -- so, put up (marry her) or shut up (stay in Thailand) if you want to keep porking her.

*(Yes, I've read the horror stories. Generally they're not real, or they're leaving something out, like the guy never actually divorced his US wife, or never married his Thai wife, or she's a known prostitute and he's embarassed by it and won't ask for a waiver, or has no way to support his new family in the US. Or the wife is HIV positive and the guy has no health insurance for her and can't get it in the US because it's a pre-existing condition.)

Member #1461
04-11-05, 21:49
Looking for a bargirl named Buaphan (nickname: Bee)

She used to work in Nana 4-5 years ago (at Lucky Luke's but also other bars in Nana), should be around 36-37 years old now. about 160-165 c"m tall , 47-50 k"g. Isaan complexion and long black hair.

Anyone have any recent info on her ?

Thanks,

JB.

JuiceSpike
04-12-05, 13:44
It sounds like it is very improtant for you to find Buaphan (nickname: Bee)
but the odds of you getting any info from this board are nil.

If you are serious about finding her you would need a picture of her and the services of a PI (see stickmanbangkok.com). Most women working in the biz move around alot, work for a while then stop then work again, etc. Given her age she may have moved back home (up country) but if you have someone with a picture of her asking around Nana somebody will know about her and where she might be. Good luck to you.

juice

Duniawala
04-12-05, 18:58
Speaking of moving around, what is the average time a BG will spend in a particular area. My experience has been about one year on the average. The longest I have seen is 3 years.

Any inputs will be welcome and will publish a survey

Coma Boy
04-14-05, 12:33
Juice, check out this photo from the Philippines thread:

http://www.*************.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=20273

CB.

JuiceSpike
04-14-05, 14:17
Funny.... multi-tasking girl. I know how i can train her to do more...:D

juice

JuiceSpike
04-14-05, 21:21
Cautionary Advice: Every country in the world has a small minority of people who are dishonest. The internet offers new opportunities for criminals and dishonest individuals to extort money from unsuspecting individuals. In order to avoid any problems it is better to be overly cautious. Here are some tips and suggestions:

NEVER send cash to anyone who you met online, but have not yet met in person.

Common examples of scams include requests for money for payments for large items such as plane tickets, legal fees, visa fees, medical expenses, marriage annulment fees etc.

If you ever consider assisting someone in another country who you met online to visit you then first check their visa eligibility with your Immigration department.

NEVER send cash for someone from another country to purchase a plane ticket, pay for visa or legal costs or anything else associated with a visit to you. If you feel you must assist this person then always buy the ticket yourself directly on the behalf of the visitor and check the ticket can be refunded in case you need to cancel it. Similarly, if you must pay for visa fees, annulment fees or other large expenses always pay the expense directly after you have verified the invoice and organization issuing the invoice is genuine.

Some people in developing countries may ask for small amounts of money to pay for internet access or phone costs for communicating with you. We recommend never sending money to anyone who you have not yet met in person.

Be suspicious of people who appear to be overly persistent or aggressive in their requests for money.

Be particularly suspicious of people who request more money as soon as you send something.

Report all suspect behavior to... hmmm, don't know..:D (your mom?)

If you have read the above and still want to send money internationally, then use Western Union to send money. If you are a US or Canadian resident you can send money online at http://www.westernunion.com or from one of the 1000's of Western Union agents throughout the world. If you live outside the US or Canada, then you need to visit a Western Union agent in your country. Please see their website for office locations. Money sent from Western Union can be easily collected from numerous locations worldwide.

NEVER send cash to anyone who you met online, but have not yet met in person.

:D

juice

Coma Boy
04-15-05, 05:56
NEVER send cash to anyone who you met online, but have not yet met in person.

Common examples of scams include requests for money for payments for large items such as plane tickets, legal fees, visa fees, medical expenses, marriage annulment fees etc.

Please send me some money. I urgently need plane tickets, legal fees, visa fees, medical expenses and a suite at JW Marriot.

I accept Western Union and also Paypal.

Thank you in advance.

Domino
05-03-05, 05:31
Jumbo Queen says fat is beautiful Mon May 2,12:56 PM ET

In an era of chiseled supermodels and bizarre weight-loss diets a Thai beauty contest celebrated women with a bit of flesh Sunday when heavy-weight contestants battled for the Miss Jumbo Queen crown.

The annual contest, which aims to raise awareness and money for Thailand's dwindling elephant population, allows full-sized women weighing over 176 pounds to show weight-conscious Thais that big is beautiful.

This year, 24 women participated in the contest at the Samphran Elephant Ground and Zoo, 38 miles west of the capital Bangkok.

"I want to show people that just because I'm fat doesn't mean I'm any less beautiful or talented," said 18-year-old winner, Tarnrarin Chansawang, who weighed in at 242 pounds.

Tarnrarin, a bubbly business student and tuba player from Bangkok, took home several prizes, including a Jumbo-sized trophy and $50,000 baht ($1,270).

Judges also looked at other talents of the contestants who mesmerized hundreds of spectators with raunchy dance numbers and revealing costumes.

In keeping with Jumbo tradition, a side award for Miss Jumbo Universe went to university student Thanchanok Mekkeaw for weighing in as the heaviest competitor in the pageant at 400 pounds.

Cream on Top
05-03-05, 11:12
exclude Bar Girls / Go Go girls in this post. If you are only in those kind, don't waste your time reading this.This is about non-paid sex

Although some girls working in Bars or Go Go girls are very "normal" persons and forced into this labour. I keep them out of this reasoning.

This is about dating Regulars.

The girl you find on the internet on dating sites, in chat boxes.

Keep your "face" as it is really important. Face for Thai is the ultimate thing. They live on it. Have zero Baht in your pocket, but wear nice clothes and you have face, and all doors open for you. The same mentallity you will find in chatboxes & dating sites. Be gentle, be nice, weigh your words when writing or chasing a date very carefully. The first questions you will have to reply are similar to Bar & GoGo girls : where you from, what job you do ? One can ask himself why ? => Quiet obvious : Face. Though for the Bargirls it is more in the option if you will be a regular money tree in the future on their behalf (...ok, exceptions make this rules). This is very unlikely in the case of regular girls. Make sure you have regular contact on the internet, never stop chatting before you have a fixed "next encounter to talk/write" or you loose the potential date. Always make suggestions, ask their working / studying schedule so you literally know when they are free time and can come online. After some time you go on to get another contact : phoning. This is the ultimate goal. She wants to hear your voice or talk in real life with you.When you achieve the stage of changing cellphone numbers : you win !! This is the moment to make a real date in time and location.

One more thing: keep track of what you say and what she said to you: make logfiles about every girl you chat on the internet. It is handy reading on the airplane or just before you meet in real life.

My personal experience:

I just talk to them as talking to a girl next door in my town. I do not start seeing them as a potential 3-holer. And let it grow very slowly to something erotic: don't force yourself into a scenery. Sometimes it takes days, sometimes only a few hours. Depending if they are in any IT shop on the roadside or at home in front of their own PC. Webcam is something very helpfull but NOT in a first chatsession. Try first of all to find out how they are inside NOT outside. It is not major at this stage how they look. Off course when you have a "fatty" online, which tells you immediately she is ugly as hell, its up to you wheter you wanna go on/ wheter you believe her or not, as some girls are sometimes exactly the opposite of what they are telling you. At this point the webcam is the ultimate proof of their "looks". Also dont enter a chat session when you are in a desperate mood for pussy. They smell it. Stay mistical and show them you have secrets to share, but not for the moment. Maybe you will tell this classified information once you meet. (grins) So in short keep them intrested in you. Lieying is something very usual in Thai community. To keep FACE ! It is not intentional, it is normal. Anyway when you gained more trust and confidence the lesser you will encounter lies on their behalf. So don't stumble over a stupid lie. Keep your balls in gear. And look at it as she has something to hide for the moment. She wants to sound more intrestingfull to you. So in other words: don't make her nerveous and point out she fucking lied to you. Rather find out afterwards why she "vealed" the truth about something and in this way don't loose your face & also her very important face. Do not make "issues", she is not your wife. She will be more comfortable to give you the true answer instead of another lie. Once you arrived to a stage of encountering. Most likely it will be in her town : Bangkok / Phuket or wherever she lives / works. Let her choose the place to meet / eat / dance or whatever. Again : Face and make her feel important. When you know the town, it is an easy way to find out what category of regular girl you are going to meet. Unless you are a regular to the spot she wants to go, you can always insist to go to a more "upscale" spot. So you want her to show something more nice and meanwhile keep your ass covered falling over any known girls in the spot she want to hangout with you. Do your homework, find alternatives in locations you can spend your leisure time with her. By now you know what meat is standing in front of you. By now you should have some kind of gift for her. To show your appreciation she made it this far. (up to you during your chat sessions to find out what she really appreciates). Time to find out how nerveous she is and hand over the gift. If she trembles and makes an unhappy face well. Time to comfort her with what you have learned during your chatssessions. We all know it is important they feel at ease with you. Grow into the evening towards eachother and do not touch her unwanted. Touching in public is NOT very likely in public places. The far you can go is maybe only holding her hand. A kiss in public is something very rare, so certainly forget the rest. It is against Thai culture. (sure this is changing, find out how she feels about it). So in short be a gentleman, give courtship, show her respect. Once in your hotelroom (lovenest) she will burn like hell !!! I admit its not always BINGO with dates over the internet. Meeting is always possible. Succes lays in both hands. It is not a one way or one man show. There allways have to be some sparkles flying over from both sides to lit the fire. The more flexible you are, the easier it will happen. Take this for granted.

chatboxes to meet regular thai girls/women :
http://chat.sanook.com/international.php
http://www.thailandchats.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-WebChat&file=index
http://asia.chat.yahoo.com/ choose thailand and a specifi box

Have Sanook

John Kallie
05-03-05, 19:53
Are there any online (non-hooker) agencies where you can see Thai girls' pics and chat with them before going to Thailand?

Thanks!

JuiceSpike
05-04-05, 13:57
Poverty forces Thai women into foreign marriages

BANGKOK: -- Most Thai women from Thailand's north-eastern region who enter into marriages with foreign men do so to escape the vicious cycle of poverty, but are keen to distinguish themselves from hired brides or prostitutes, according to research published yesterday.

Although it is based on a study in a single north-eastern village, the report by Dr. Rattana Boonmathaya from Mahidol University has wider resonances in a society in which marriage to foreigners is a popular option.

The particular village chosen for the study is noticeable for the fact that nearly one in three of the 330 women aged 20-59 resident there has chosen to marry a foreigner, with 96 percent having married men from Switzerland.

Also notable is the fact that most of the foreign men are 10-18 years older than their Thai brides, and that the majority of both husbands and wives have already gone through previous marriages.

Although the research points to a number of reasons that the women choose to marry foreign men, the most common appears to be the desire to escape from the poverty trap and the feeling among the women that they need to provide money for their families.

But the women also stress that financial considerations are not the only ones at play, saying that foreign men are less likely than they Thai counterparts to be concerned about past relationships or virginity, and have a greater sense of responsibility.

But the women acknowledge that the society often views them in a negative light, as 'hired brides' or even prostitutes, a view shared even by the village's older residents.

"The villagers here aren't happy that people link marriage with foreigners with hired brides. Lots of people fear that the village's reputation has suffered. Older people are trying to fight back by saying that the village is a moral one", Dr. Rattana says.

The popularity for marrying foreign men appears to have become so strong among women in the village that Dr. Rattana fears that it has become a 'fashion', with the majority of girls of primary school age replying that they want to marry a foreigner when asked what they want to be when they grow up.

What is particularly interesting is that many parents in the village now favour daughters over sons, as girls as perceived as being better able to provide for their families.

Indeed, some older people even say that they do not want sons at all, describing them as 'useless'.

For the women themselves, marriage to a foreigner provides mixed blessings.

"The women who are wives of foreign men describe it as miraculous that there are still people who value their bodies, despite the fact that they have already been married and widowed. They feel that someone has given them power for a second time. But the men in the village are afraid that their status has dropped compared to women".

The 'miracle' of marriage, however, is tempered with warnings.

One woman married to a German man and now resident in Switzerland says: "I am lucky to have found a new husband, but I would caution other Thai women who think that marrying a foreigner will give them nothing but a good life".

The woman interviewed says that some Thai women are disappointed with their foreign marriages, to the extent that they sometimes suffer mental health problems.

She also warns that living abroad requires massive adjustments, and that the first phase of life abroad can be a lonely one.

She also says that most Thai women meet their foreign husbands in their own workplaces, with 54 percent meeting in entertainment venues where the women are employed.

A further 20 percent meet through networks of relatives, while 20 percent meet by coincidence or from tourism.

--TNA 2005-05-04


juice

MeatMan
05-04-05, 14:06
Well, At least no ones getting cursed out and shot! :D

RasSpewtin
05-04-05, 17:47
Cream on Top:

Firstly, thanks for the links. I tried them all a few times during the last couple of days, and I have some observations and questions.

The Sanook QQ site: I found a few ladies there when I tried. It was mid-afternoon in Thailand at the time. Although it looks like this may be a good site, it is difficult to link to at times (can not activate applets). This could be due to a server issue on my side, not sure. How many ladies typically login to this site during your visits, and what time of day do you find best?

The Thailandchats.com site: I found zero users present in all chat rooms. I checked there during the morning, afternoon, and late evening Thai time. Do you ever find any ladies here, or do I need to click on some other link in this site to find the good stuff?

The Yahoo chat groups: Through this link I could only find Siam Square, which is a site I have already been trying for some time. It is impossible to figure out who is female or male on this site, and conversations are pretty sparse here.

I have, however, used a chat site in southern China now for years, with some amazing luck, using pretty much the same techniques as you described in detail. Is there something that I am missing in your links?

Raz

John Kallie
05-06-05, 20:09
The Sanook site seems to be all in Thai. Is there an English version?

John Kallie
05-14-05, 07:09
I thought I knew all their tricks by now but they are good at adapting! I want to share with you an attempt by a Thai chatroom girl to con me today. I am very experienced and know all about the sick buffalo and the mother in the hospital. But this is a new one. I have to admit I almost fell for it. Here is her e-mail:

Hi!

How are you? Can you remember me? Are you busy today? I think you may busy because I hadn't see you in chat room. Today I'm very unhappy and how unlucky me because I lose my watch . It's my favourite watch because it's first one that I save my money to buy it by myself for my own birthday's gift. So today I feel unhappy and can not say something jokking. How about you? When will you come to Thailand? Ok Hope to see you and receive your email.

Have nice day.

JuiceSpike
05-14-05, 22:33
JK,

I think you are over-reacting to this girl's email. No where in the email she is asking you for money or even replacing her lost watch. She is just telling you she was unhappy about the lost of her watch.

In my opinion you are being a little hyper sensitive. Maybe you have had bad experiences before but she is not hitting you for money...yet.

juice

John Kallie
05-15-05, 09:28
Juice:

Your point is well taken. I will let you know what happens. Stay tunned...


JK,

I think you are over-reacting to this girl's email. No where in the email she is asking you for money or even replacing her lost watch. She is just telling you she was unhappy about the lost of her watch.

In my opinion you are being a little hyper sensitive. Maybe you have had bad experiences before but she is not hitting you for money...yet.

juice

Cream on Top
05-15-05, 10:39
The Sanook site seems to be all in Thai. Is there an English version?No there is no English version. But when you go over the links, look in your Internet Explorer window downside left, you see the link which will open when you click the item your mouse is standing on. So that can help you to find where you are and what you are looking for. (because that is always in english pawl)

Cream on Top
05-15-05, 10:49
Cream on Top:

Firstly, thanks for the links. I tried them all a few times during the last couple of days, and I have some observations and questions.

The Sanook QQ site: I found a few ladies there when I tried. It was mid-afternoon in Thailand at the time. Although it looks like this may be a good site, it is difficult to link to at times (can not activate applets). This could be due to a server issue on my side, not sure. How many ladies typically login to this site during your visits, and what time of day do you find best?

The Thailandchats.com site: I found zero users present in all chat rooms. I checked there during the morning, afternoon, and late evening Thai time. Do you ever find any ladies here, or do I need to click on some other link in this site to find the good stuff?

The Yahoo chat groups: Through this link I could only find Siam Square, which is a site I have already been trying for some time. It is impossible to figure out who is female or male on this site, and conversations are pretty sparse here.

I have, however, used a chat site in southern China now for years, with some amazing luck, using pretty much the same techniques as you described in detail. Is there something that I am missing in your links?

RazWhen having installed YAHOO messenger latetst version, you have the possibility to go from inthere to any chatroom in the world run by yahoo. Just check out your Yahoo messenger thoroughly and you will find. So Thailand will not just show up Siam sq. But about 20 - 40 chatboxes. ;-) so you wont need my link I posted anylonger. This link is just good for people not having yahoo messenger and wanting to run a HTML Based java chatbox from yahoo.

Be carefull with it and be gentle in the room. Never abuse someone. Some real punks are inside and in no time they get through and are litteraly messing with your computer.

About chatrooms on other sites. It all depends, no can tell when you are on the right time. Most girls go chat (what I experienced) after work / school. So thai time around 06.00 pm you have the best shot for a chat. This continues upto around 09.00 - 10.00 pm, then it goes downstairs rapidly.

In Any chatbox about thailand. After 10.00 pm Bangkok time, you will find desperate cows, "sophenees" and other garbitches.

Cream on Top
05-15-05, 10:56
i found out this seems to be a subject of common interest. so when you send me private messages about this, some questions are about the same from different people. so i think it is better to post them public. we like to share knowledge don't we?

this was the most complete "questionnaire" :-)


hi cream on top,

i was hoping you could give me some tips on how to start some conversations with these thai women (i do not speak thai).

perhaps i can ask you some questions:

1. what things does one say to get these thai women interested and respond back?

2. what kind of men, do you find, that these women are looking for (i am a white farang). what kind of characteristics do they want in their men?

3. how much correspondence does it take to build rapport with these women?

4. how do you transition your writting them to meeting them?

5. do you post a picture of yourself for them? do you think they are attracted to you physically or can these women be won over with personality, etc.?

6. once you meet them in person, how do you keep them interested in you (i have found that thai women become bored easily)?

7. any other advice you can give on meeting thai women via internet?


and this is my reply :

hello there,

1. one thing for sure is stay "natural"! or be a character you can uphold. just be yourself. that is the first test you have to put yourself through. so starting a conversation is a two way standard set off simple lines and making each other comfortable talking.

how are you? how's the weather in "city x", do you mind me talking to you? i don’t want to disturb you, but would like to talk to you..... whatever in this sense. off course it is "handy" if you can write/talk a few words of thai language. just to impress them, just to show them you are interested in thai, not only for a fuck (that’s not the way to impress her).

this is a starter. grow upwards and make her feel “important” to you, to the world, for what she is, for what she does as a job. flatter her “ego” in many possible ways, but don’t exaggerate too much in the beginning. let it grow slow but steady. so in short it all depends on what kind of character you have on hands. it is important to find out how she is, what she is, and what she stands for in life and opinions. when you reached her this far by your talking, you have many things to talk about.

2. thai woman are looking for any kind of men. as there is as many difference in between thai woman as there is in between white farang men ;-)

so for any character there is a match. it just takes time and you will find her, she will find you. age is not the main issue. many thai girls over 25 "like" farang in their mid 40's. below 25 its different, they will fall for a guy around 30. once they reach 30-35 bet you they will fall for +50 men. this is no golden rule. exceptions make the rules fellows. how you are, the security you are able to give her, the house, take care bill - man. every woman is looking for everywhere in the world. so this is not genuine thai but more vulnerable in thailand as most girls don’t earn a proper living and also help mother and father even if they have to be hungry after sending some bath to their hometown. the security and comfort man for her future off spring, that is what most girls are looking for. so if you are a tramp, a bag boy, or completely broke, it is time to find yourself a brand new character and uphold this illusion until you want to waste her.

2. all women in thailand as everywhere in the world make an issue about how they look. it is never perfect, and it has always to ameliorate. (well in most cases they think anyway). so it is more "human-female knowledge" instead of thai knowledge how to be successful in a date with a thai woman. they are not that much different from white woman in this case. they want compliments and affirmations on their looks. so here we come to the picture part.

you can play it as a game (the picture swap). you can play it as something very serious, and also in a funny way. up to you how you want to play it.

in both cases the main thing is you never give any insulting/negative comments on a pic you receive. or you got yourself an ugly ***** you want to get rid off. but still... remember the best friend of this "ugly" biatch could be the next miss world, or miss thailand :-).

i always tend to share them my positive feelings about what i see on the picture. the nice dress, the look of the eyes, the big smile.... whatever...
nothing sexual. (it is too soon now for this anyway).

example: lately i receive a pic of a bangkok nurse, she is 30 and never married. after 15 - 20 minutes talking / chatting yahoo, she was ready to send me her picture. she had an @ss like an elephant. wear a red jacket which split like the pods of the eifeltower once reaching the waste line. i just asked her once received the picture, “you like red eh?". first she replied no, 2 lines further she said yes i like. to show you how easy you knock them off their feet when you say something about their picture. for most girls (even the beauty ones) it is very vulnerable material to send pics over the internet to someone. believe me!!! it is like crawling into bed with you in their opinion. it demands trust and confidence. and most will send you their "best shot". so when you get her picture by email do not make stupid mistakes!!! (don’t accept pics over messenger or peer to peer applets, you might fuck up your computer before you know it.) let her send it to you by email, and scan the pic before downloading it. you will have to provide the same to her, send her your best "shot" on paper. i mean your "shot" not the picture of someone else, unless you are into playing games with them, not immediately resulting in a sexual encounter.

3. the volume of correspondence is depending on how quickly you can gain this trust and confidence. this is the same with meeting people in real life. the better you show up(physically and mentally), the sooner you gain this attention. the benefit of internet is, you have a slight higher chance you meet woman which are not so very self-confident. so more easy to convince in what you believe. on the other hand there are a lot of playgirls online as well. just to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) you off. it takes time to find the gems in the well. but in most cases you are the one with the benefit, when you play the game correct. as lack of self confidence and shyness sometimes go hand in hand, you start can start te game. but mainly it is "them" who are hungry for attention and have a competition in-between. you can bet your @ss on that.

4. once you have the trust, it is time to meet and satisfy your both curiosity. it is up to you both to feel when she is ready for a real life meeting. but keep your horses in gear, stay on top of the situation. you are not donald trump who can say; well today i’m off and fly to bangkok. you must keep her hunger satisfied into you for a while. so therefore it also depends on when you start fishing dates on the internet. sometimes it worth’s the effort to start soon, (lets say about 4 months before you fly). sometimes you get yourself a real gem in 2 weeks time. do not expect her to come out of thailand. if you find yourself such one, she is into marriage and not just a sexual experience with you. (yes sometimes real desperate cases are hanging out on the internet) and i don’t think this is what you are looking for. last step before meeting (when not done yet) is to be able to locate her when you are in town. so a cellphone # and eventually a meeting place are the outmost necessary details to get out of her.

5. by now one should know for himself what “things” about you attract those women. there is no guideline on this. it is strictly personal. so it all depends on what this girl has on “values”. for sure is, they will also “flatter” you with words, u so cute, you sexy boy….. and many more of those words. just keep your feet on the ground. do not let them molest you with words you should use towards them ;-) . just show them you are a “normal” man, with some “specialities”. up to you to fill in “specialities”. (a way to make you feel interesting for them).

6. the meeting itself (so the last stage) is kind of kinky question to answer. by now many factors are into game. also asking me how to keep a woman out of boredom is just like asking me, hold my hands i’m shaking and loosing control of the situation. how do you meet with regular white woman? do not make a difference, they also get bored when you do mess up and are unable to entertain a conversation. the thai counterparts are not very different from this. the difference lies in the curiosity you made in-between yourself over your chat sessions you had. you have plenty of time to show them you are and have secrets to share when you meet. so like stated before, do your homework, print out the chat sessions (log files – aka message archives with her in your messenger) and read them through when flying over – before you meet in real life. then it is time to share the secrets you did not want to tell over the internet. woman love secrets, the real secrets, but also the fake you made up.

JuiceSpike
06-12-05, 16:51
For Newbies…

Most of the working hookers in Bangkok come from the north of Thailand. Few are new in the biz but most have been in the biz for a while. After the second month in the biz they have enough experience on how to deal with farangs and newbies should be aware of their tricks to make more money out of you.

In my view the gogo girls are the most experienced and prepared to deal with farangs compare to freelancers. They are 3 types of freelancers: 1. Fulltime type. 2. Part time type and 3. As needed (cash) type, usually goes out once or twice a month. My preference is the third type. Not used too much and more fun to deal with.

The girl work in the biz to make money. They will fuck you for money. They will also try to get more money out of you after you have left the country if you fall into their personal zone. This is the zone of bullshit stories to make you be sympathetic to their personal/family problems. Some of the girls who are good at being cons have more than one guy sending them money. Some of the new girls just hope the guy (if they like him) will fall for them and hire them for days so they don’t have to fuck several different guys to make the same amount of money.

I have talked to many girls and most don’t really like farang but will have sex with them to make money. It is a job. Sometimes they enjoy sex but most of the time they want it to be over as fast as possible. They smile and are sweet and easy going because that’s their nature and it helps them make money. A Thai woman’s charm and beauty goes a long way with a horny guy…

Many guys confuse the “nice demeanor” of girls with thinking she is girlfriend material. She is not. Unless you are the type of guy looking to rescue a working girl from her job you have no business getting into her head or heart. She is nice to you because that’s her job. I have seen so many girls hanging out with guys looked bored silly. They really are. After they spend longer time with a customer their smiles are forced and fake unless she really likes a guy which in reality rare.

Most girls prefer short time even though they can make a little more money going long time. The long time pros don’t care either way. The majority of girls are NOT looking for boyfriends in farangs. They just want to fuck them and get paid. Some girls are out to screw guys out of money because they can and because they think if the guy is stupid enough to send them money after they have left the country they deserved to be taken.

Most girls like a “good heart” farang which means a guy that will not fuck them too hard and for a long time during one session. Also this type of guy is naïve and new to the biz that makes him a good candidate to get screwed by a clever girl. This is not a cynical view but a realistic one in which many girls are out to maximize their income by whatever means available.

Most frequently asked questions hookers are:

Where are you from? (are you from a country guys tip well or a country with a reputation for being cheap or assholes types…)

Where you stay? (does your hotel mean you have money…?)

How long you stay? (if she likes you she will try to get your business over and over or just try to keep you for the duration of your stay)

How many times you’ve been to Thailand? (how experienced are you with hookers?)

How much you pay me? (to see if you will think with your dick and not your head)

Frequent Bullshit lines by hookers:

“I just started working…” (but her English is good which means she has been doing for a while…)

“I’m looking for a man with a good heart…” (she wants a nice guy and/or a sucker to send her money after you go back to farang land…)

“You are handsome man…” (if you know in your heart you are an average looking guy she is just making you feel better and/or bullshitting you so that you pay more…)

“I’m honest, I don’t lie to you…” (take a guess…)

The above are only my views and I’m no expert but been talking and fucking them for 3 years…

Fuck safe and have a good time.

juice

Coma Boy
06-12-05, 19:05
And don't forget type-2 farmer's daughters always pretend to be type-3 farmer's daughters.

Wee Zel
06-13-05, 07:55
For Newbies…

Most of the working hookers in Bangkok come from the north of Thailand. Most frequently asked questions hookers are:

JuiceVery well stated Juice, a must read for all new visitors!!

Also, remember the question, "can you speak Thai??" Answer in Thai and they know that you are probably aware of their schemes, prices etc. and, at least in high season, move to less knowledgeable falangs quite quickly.

A lot of fun can be had by pretending to not understnd any Thai, and listening to the comments between the girls! Then watch the look on their faces when you eventually respond in Thai, or even better, in Laos!

JuiceSpike
06-18-05, 14:43
For the Newbie (and the regular moron…:D)

(Thai girl = bar or freelancer Thai hooker... does not apply to "regular" Thai women...) :)

You are making your first, second or the third trip to Thailand and you are fresh meat for the Thai girl/hooker.

Thai girls are very efficient and shrewd when it comes to dealing with men. They know how to please you to make money at it. Sex to them is a job, a task, a means to make money and you are fresh meat to them not the other way around. They are in business, and they are good at it. They help to support their country’s economy in many ways. They are ambassadors. They are one of the best customer services in the entire world. You are nothing but a dick with money in your pocket. Don’t take it the wrong way, this is just life.

Thai women in general are very practical when it comes to dealing with foreigner men. They know how make a man feel good and important (“you are handsome”) and they will use all their skills to make sure they do a good job. You must always pay.

Things a Thai bar girl does not care about:

1. You are handsome and dress well.
2. You are ugly but dress well.
3. You come from a rich country (unless you are willing to support her).
4. You speak good English.
5. You have a good/important job (unless you are willing to share your salary with her).
6. You drive a nice car in your country.
7. You have an ipod.
8. You have a digital camera.
9. You have a video camera.
10. You have nice luggage.
11. You own many things.

Things that do not impress a Thai bar girl:

1. You are handsome and dress well.
2. You are ugly but dress well.
3. You come from a rich country (unless you are willing to support her).
4. You speak good English.
5. You have a good/important job (unless you are willing to share your salary with her).
6. You drive a nice car in your country.
7. You have an ipod.
8. You have a digital camera.
9. You have a video camera.
10. You have nice luggage.
11. You own many things.

Things not to do with a Thai hooker:

1. Impress her with your “western” values and riches. She does not care or understand.
2. Talk about your job.
3. Talk about your miserable life.
4. Talk about why you like Thailand (she knows you are here for fucking).
5. Talk about how important you are in the west.
6. Talk about art.
7. Talk about global business.
8. Talk about how nice the weather is in Thailand.
9. Impress her with your western yearly salary (unless you are willing to share your salary with her).
10. Repeat number one through nine.

So what does a Thai girl care about?

1. How much money you are willing to spend for her pussy.
2. How much money you want to pay her to fuck you.
3. How much money you want to tip her.
4. How much you like her and will spend on her.
5. How “good heart” you have and willing to spend on her.

Things you will NEED to do when fucking in Thailand:

1. Forget all your western values and standards. You are now a guest in a totally different culture. You are now fresh meat.
2. Have street smart. If you don’t know what this is stay home.
3. Negotiate everything. They will respect and like you more.
4. Be funny. Humor goes a long way in Thailand. If you don’t know how to be funny stay home.
5. Be shrewd.
6. Make eye contact but do not stare.
7. Adapt to everything. If you can’t do this stay home.
8. Smile with intent not like you are trying to be cute. The smile is a tool not a “look good” thing. Practice before you go there.
9. Observe and learn fast.
10. Forget all your western values and standards. You are now a guest in a totally different culture. You are now fresh meat.
11. Think with your HEAD not your Dick. If you can’t do this stay home.
12. Treat women with respect and don't look down on her regardless of what your views about hookers are.
13. Always pay.

These are just my views and I’m not an expert but have been going there for three years to mostly fuck and observe…

Have a good time and fuck safe.

juice

Coma Boy
06-18-05, 15:50
Juice, I think by "Thai girl" you actually mean "Thai hooker".

Most non-P4P Thai girls are nothing like bar-girls.

JuiceSpike
06-18-05, 16:01
Yup... correction made...

juice

Phuquer
06-18-05, 17:21
Juicespike, excellent post. I remember my first trip to Bangkok. I was lucky I have some street smarts and I am quick and always watching my back. But most of the other things, I had to learn by observing, and trial and error. A lot of guys go there with a mentality that they are hunting and the girls are their prey. It's not like that. It's much more like going shopping at the supermarket. You are there to do business first (make contact, negotiate, etc.). Fucking is just the product. The contact and the negotiation is what kills it for most first timers. They let the girl take control, and after that it all goes down hill fast. They must remember that she wants to do as little as possible for the most amount of money. That's all she cares about. Nothing else. I really do like the post and I wish I had realized that this is a business before I went to LOS the first time. Now I know, and I am much better prepared. Hopefully this will help somebody who is thinking about going.

Little Wing
06-19-05, 01:28
My question is geographically Hong Kong, but the subject is a Thai Woman, so some advice over here might be useful (preferably helpful advice, but I'll accept other kinds :)

I've seen posts in various forums about spending a few days with a WG, freebies when you've been nice to them, and so on. In my case I've been talking to a Thai bar girl I met in Hong Kong six months ago (and posted about previously in the HK section) and I'll be seeing her when I pass through next month to/from China.

The big question is how to keep this at what is currently a nice level, i.e. (as far as I'm concerned) "friends" but no expectation of more than sex, fun, and some interesting conversation (her English is pretty good) when I'm able to spend a night or two in HK.

In trying to clarify this I've tried to respond to her "I take holiday" (from the bar) with "But you still want some money, right?", which gets the "Up to you!" response :)

What worries me a little is that she takes it too seriously. I had a hard time getting her cell number in the first place. I'd written (c/o the bar) and she left me a phone message but "knew I'd understand" that she didn't text me (which would reveal the number). Only when I wrote again with some definite dates did I get a text. I'd actually be more relaxed if she'd given me the number when I was last in HK with a transparent "I'm your HK GF now" line.

Anyone have any wisdom/experiences to share?

LW

The Traveler
06-19-05, 05:03
...
3. negotiate everything. they will respect and like you more.
...
juice,

why should a girl (thai hooker) respect you for negotiating "everything" and even like you more for doing so ?

respect and positive feelings are aren't earned by negotiating everything. the opposite might be true, she might think of you as a cheap charlie and might feel forced to provide "special services" that she might not like (e.g. anal, sm, [CodeWord103] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord103) or whatever you like).

JuiceSpike
06-20-05, 16:01
For a newbie and the occasional moron :D

So you arrive to the land of cheap pussy and you feel like a kid in a candy store with so much to choose from and your appetite is huge… Then, you start your binge and it’s non-stop for days. Then you feel a little lonely and getting bored with eating so much candy.

I think for most guys going there alone it is a good idea to meet or arrange meeting other guys to have a buddy to talk to, do things with other than chasing pussy to keep a strong perspective on the whole scene. Every hobby has its perils.

If you are going to Thailand just to fuck it is a good idea to find other things to do. I have seen many guys get sucked in by the scene to find themselves later regretting their decisions and becoming bitter with the whole scene.

Let’s face it: you are there to fuck hookers and not to find your next wife. If your intention is to find your next wife in Thailand then stay away as far as possible from the hooker scene.

I think it is important to keep in mind that these wonderful hookers will fuck you senseless for a small amount of money but they are not wife material. If you are there looking for a wife in the bar or freelance scene you are in for a disappointment unless you are the type of guy who is willing to make a huge personal sacrifice and commitment to save a hooker from her life style and dead end future. If you are the type who feels sorry for them and wants to do something about it then donate to a charity that helps women get out of the business. Giving a hooker money to change her life is a dead end proposition as most will blow it without a strong support system that an agency dealing with this has to offer.

In my opinion, the worst thing a guy can do to a hooker is to lead her on the “love” and “I will rescue you” path. You are fooling yourself. Many girls are looking for a way out and it’s a natural thing to do. But many are so damaged that they need a lot more than money to make it back to the “main stream.” Most girls are in the biz by their own choice, they have decided to fuck men to make money and know exactly what they are doing. You are new to this whole experience.

Another thing is that girls are looking for the lonely type of guy to make fresh meat of him. It sounds cynical but it is not. The girls are out to maximize their income and they will find any angles to do it. That’s their job: to make money from men whether they fuck them or not. It is no secret that Thai hookers will tell lies and cheat to get a guy hooked to make money out of him.

Having a buddy or friends to spend time with beside chasing pussy can really help the new guy in the hobby keep his head straight to enjoy the fucking experience better.

These are just my views and I’m not an expert…

juice

Phuquer
06-20-05, 16:34
In trying to clarify this I've tried to respond to her "I take holiday" (from the bar) with "But you still want some money, right?", which gets the "Up to you!" response :)

What worries me a little is that she takes it too seriously. I had a hard time getting her cell number in the first place. I'd written (c/o the bar) and she left me a phone message but "knew I'd understand" that she didn't text me (which would reveal the number). Only when I wrote again with some definite dates did I get a text. I'd actually be more relaxed if she'd given me the number when I was last in HK with a transparent "I'm your HK GF now" line.

Anyone have any wisdom/experiences to share?

LW
Little Wing, in my mind, when she says she's taking a holiday from the bar she is saying that she is taking a holiday from work. I wouldn't give her any money. I would take her out to dinner, movies, that kind of thing. Maybe get her a small (not expensive) gift like a teddy bear or something. That's about it. If she wanted you as her boyfriend, she would have given you her phone number. I lived with a Thai hooker here in the US for over a year. While she was with me she "quit the job" and was a very good "wife" (that's what they call themselves when they are living with you. But she knew that we wouldn't stay together and she would return to work. So we enjoyed each other's company. But we had no expectation that we would stay together. I never paid her for sex (except the first time :) ), never got her a diamond ring, never promised to marry her. I just had fun with her, and she had fun with me. In the end, we decided that she had different goals than me. So we parted ways and she returned to work. She is still my friend, and I can probably get freebies from her. But I just don't. Don't think too much about it, enjoy your time with her, and don't get serious with her. Let her know that you are not serious, and that you like her not to be too serious with you.

The Traveler
06-20-05, 23:01
Juice,

I agree with what you said in your last post.
There are girls like that, maybe even the majority but there are also a few that are in fact good wife material.

A friend of mine married a girl who was working in a massage parlour. She made good money, in average 60.000 per month. But she left business, married my friend, gave birth to two kids and they still live happy together for almost 15yrs now.

Another friend of mine married a girl who was a singer in a cafe and probably went with guys. She is now living in my hometown, owns a travel agency and works very hard. She is a zero prob girl and they still are happy together.

I have several other friends who also married girls from the biz, more or less happy (just like being with a white girl) but very often the guys are the reason for the probs.

So all in all your advice is true but a generalization or prejudice, depending on your point of view and your intentions.

There is one very important fact that most guys don't understand. If you marry a Thai you usually marry her whole family. Thais feel the need to support their parents. There is no social system for the poor farmers upcountry and when being old and not able to work anymore they solely depend on the support of their children. If you are not able to take this burden, forget about it.

Set up rules and a monthly amount that you can afford to sent to her parents. Stick to your rules and tell your girl/future wife that you have to take care of your own parents and your own future too. Your girl will understand and it will avoid future probs regarding financial issues.

Little Wing
06-21-05, 23:03
Thanks for the comments, and thanks for sharing your experences.

I've got a lot of useful advice from the HK board and your post. All somewhat contradictory (which is to be expected, we all have different experiences and expectations) ranging "keep away from any involvement, it's not worth the hassle" to your "just buy her dinner", with the majority in a middle ground that I would summarise as: "Make sure she gets as much (cash) out of it as she would if I took her out from the club, then neither of us will lose face when it's over (she doesn't lose money, I don't feel I've taken advantage of her, so don't feel further obligation)".

The majority view (and your post) also contain a "quit worrying and have fun" message, so I'm now counting down the days. Thanks again :)

Cream on Top
06-23-05, 12:36
Set up rules and a monthly amount that you can afford to sent to her parents. Stick to your rules and tell your girl/future wife that you have to take care of your own parents and your own future too. Your girl will understand and it will avoid future probs regarding financial issues.And to complete:

Get her a job. And let her do with the money she earns what she wants. (send to her parents or whatever). Keep you own green bills / euro's in your pocket.

JuiceSpike
06-23-05, 15:43
Thai women not beautiful?

Only 1% of Thai women consider themselves to be beautiful, and six out of 10 would consider some form of plastic surgery if it were free, according to a study commissioned by Dove.

''Asian Women's Attitudes Towards Self-Esteem, Body Image and Media Portrayal'', surveyed 2,100 women in 10 countries in Asia about their views on beauty.

The majority were dissatisfied with their looks and liked the ''Eurasian look'', said Wannipa Bhakdibutra, managing director (personal care) at Unilever Thai Trading.

Only 59% of Thai women said they were satisfied with their appearance, while only 1% considered themselves to be beautiful, compared with an average 3% of all nationalities surveyed.

''Asian women are not happy with their bodies. Thai women are most unhappy about their tummies and the shape of their legs,'' the study concluded.

Although 38% of Thai women showed interest in cosmetic surgery, this jumped to 63%, the highest in the survey, if surgery were free as a component of health care.

The Bangkok Post

Sojourner
06-24-05, 01:54
I recently returned to school in the US for a career change.

For the last month of the semester I worked on a project with a group that included a tall and rather attractive Chinese-Thai woman in her late 20's. She is attending grad school in the US and did her undergraduate work in Bangkok at an English speaking private school, so she has some good financial backing from well established parents.

She seemed rather shy in the project-group discussions, so when I ran into her outside of class I was suprised that she asked me to join her while studying. She is more formal in public than one on one, but toward the end of the term she had a habit of touching my hand or shoulder before we parted. My understanding is that the culture is less inclined towards touching both in public and private so it seems that either she is overcompensating or dropping a hint.

Since I am a middleaged African American, I figure she was mostly interested in keeping me around to help with homework and/or english. That said, I have her email and will see her in the Fall so I would like to maximize whatever chances I have of getting my hands on that shapely young body of hers.

Any advice and insights will be apreciated.

Regards,

S

JuiceSpike
06-24-05, 23:15
It will come down to you to figure out how far you can go with this woman.

Suggestion:

Why not contact her during the summer to see if she is available. During the summer takes the school friendship out of the equation and you will know if she is interested in seeing you outside the school environment. If she responds well then maximize the options that come to you. Good luck, she sounds like a gem.

juice

Old Thai Hand
06-25-05, 06:35
sojourner,

i agree with what juicespike says. i think it's good advice.

wealthy thai hiso women tend to actually be far less conservative than the upcountry women, who still cling to many of the old thai cultural ways. they are more cosmopolitan and are aware of and fascinated by western values. they tend to mix the best of thai values with those western values they deem to be not to much in opposition. so, i think this one is certainly approachable.

the fact that she has touched you is quite significant. she is definitely interested.

thais particularly in bangkok have become in recent years more physically demonstrative than they were when i arrived here in 1997. then, you would never see thais holding hands. so, it was sometimes very difficult to determine interest or not. even now, you still only see very tame and tentative exchanges of affection rather than the crass groping and 'sucking of face' that is often displayed in the west. i don't think it will ever get to that point here, which (as an aside) is why when farang and bgs manhandle each other in the street, it's so obviously out of place.

however, you need to go very slow, don't make any sudden moves, always be a gentleman, and let her lead you at the beginning. be a bit shy. thai women love that. it makes them hornier than hell. think of this as more of an old-fashioned courtship ritual and deal with it that way. that's still largely how she views it. trust is a huge issue with thai women. so, she is testing the waters and needs to see if she can trust you. then, the speed will most likely pick up quickly as you spend more time with her. the speed will come from her, by the way, not you. thai women, once they've 'set their caps' for someone are single-minded in their approach and go in for the kill rapidly. according to my personal experience, only, i've dubbed it the 4-date rule. by the 4th (serious) date, she will have made up her mind and you'll probably get laid. it has happened to me like this so many times, i think that tgs have a secret log-book somewhere in which they check-off the appropriate boxes, get to the 4th date box, check the entry that says, "tonight he's mine", and start the attack approach.

your reference to your being a middle-aged african american is probably also an significant element in all of this. i suspect that her interest is at least in some part due to you being as the thais would say, a "chocolate man".

it is an interesting phenomenon that while most thais in general and thai women in particular hate indians and arabs (kaeks in thai) and anybody that even remotely looks dark and swarthy, they don't feel the same about black people.

many thai women are fascinated by black men, and it's not to do, by the way with the legendary size of their members. thai women actually don't like big dicks. so, that's not it. i actually don't know what it is, exactly. but, there are a significant number of them who are absolutely fascinated by black men, in particular american black men. but, here is the dichotomy. far, far less like african black men. they tend to lump them in with arabs, perhaps because most in thailand hang around nana nua (soi 3) in the arab area and are involved with crime. however, they like caribbean blacks, or at least the idea of them. but, few have ever encountered them. but, they like the idea of them because of reggae music, which has had a long-standing pressence and influence on the thai pop music scene. similarily, black american music has had a big influence here going back to the 60s. rap in particular is very popular in its more watered-down mainstream form. thais see the pressence of black entertainers in mainstream american culture, which has an impact on their acceptance of them. also, the overt sexiness of the music is not lost on thai women. i've been out to clubs with proper, polite thai 'ladies', who will suddenly turn into sweaty, writhing snakes at the sound of usher, or nelly. so, i think that has something to do with it...you black guys just ooze sex, i guess...=-)

so, i wish you lots of luck and expect to hear a follow-up report from you soon. i hope you 'graduate' to the regular tg club. it is a much more satisfying and rewarding place to be.

MeatMan
06-25-05, 10:43
I was riding the Skytrain yesterday and I got 4 numbers. (sorry it was a typo from 7)....I LOVE THIS COUNTRY!!!:D

I got a lot of gawks and stares as I was the only "Brotha" on the skytrain. Man, confidence pays off!

Cream on Top
06-26-05, 01:14
There is a new "rage" going on amongst the Thai in their 20's -30's. Mixed genders are very popular these days amongst our thai girls.

Oh yes want beautifull baby! Nowadays they cry. A mix caucasian/asian is what they mean.

So be aware monglers. Its easy for such a thai who to get you bare boned. Keep up the good work and put on the raincoats. Or you might endup being father before you know it.

Duniawala
06-26-05, 06:34
sojourner,
it is an interesting phenomenon that while most thais in general and thai women in particular hate indians and arabs (kaeks in thai) and anybody that even remotely looks dark and swarthy, they don't feel the same about black people.

it is interesting that as an indian my experience in los has just been the opposite. i have been going there for the last 5-6 years and i never had anyone from hiso girls to the tgs ever gave me the the feeling of hate. don't know about the arabs though.

while your expertise in thai matters is commendable, i feel that you think from the farang's viewpoint. let's look at a few facts. the predominant religion is from india. all the royals have hindu names. thais have a long history of trading with the indians.

what you are talking about is the lower economic class of indians who used to travel in the few years ago as runners for smugglers. to explain. they were paid to go to bkk and get electronics goods to bring back, which were eventually got through the indian customs through bribes. (duty rates were high then). these were uneducated people and were treated as such as they would be in any country, thailand or otherwise.

prejudice against color is in every country in the world. even the indians like the fair skinned indians better than the dark skinned ones.

only one thing that nobody is prejudiced about: money!!

so oth, please do some more research and really try to understand cultures of the world, rather than just say things which you have no clue about. at least this what was implied, imho, in this leter of yours.

sojourner, i believe she likes you as a person and has nothing to do with race. meatman, the same for you. kudos for the 7 (oops 4) numbers. it is your personality which brings the girls to you and nothing else.


"so, i think that has something to do with it...you black guys just ooze sex, i guess...=-) "

give me a break. you will not say the same when you meet my black neighbor here in southern california. looks like sour grapes to me.

racism to some degree is everywhere. some on the surface and others as an undercurrent. please don't paint an entire culture by generalisation (sp?).

duni

ps. no intention of flaming you, but just wanted to set the facts straight.

Old Thai Hand
06-26-05, 11:09
Duniawala,

Some of what you say is true, particularly about the cultural/religious connection. I'm happy that you have had positive experiences with Thai HiSo women.

But, I'm speaking from direct and continued first-hand experience of comments that have been made to me by Thais, particularly Thai students over the years. They are not random, sporadic comments, but pervasive. They are comments made by lower-income Thais, middle-class Thais and HiSo Thais. I have had Indian students from good families in my classes on numerous occasions over the years and they always stick together, don't mix with the Thais and are not generally welcomed within Thai circles. Yes, it is true that Indians have had a long history in this country, and after generation after generation, they are more Thai than Indian. So, while they are accepted as a part of Thai society, many Thais still don't like them much. They just don't openly show it. A very clear indication of this is that there are very few mixed Thai-Indian children, except perhaps in the South. Whereas the Thais have mixed with just about every other race in Asia.

However, If racism has been implied on my part, I appologize. I am not being racist, I am just reporting the facts as I have observed them up-close for 8 years. It is my observation, based on considerable personal experience.

As for Arabs:

For many years there were signs posted in Nana complex forbidding Arabs from entering certain bars. Most BGs don't like going with them. Thais in general don't trust them, again according to what I've personally witnessed and been told.

My comments regarding Thai women's interest in Black men stands, again from first-hand knowledge. I have had students practically cream in their shorts when talking about Will Smith, Denzel Washington etc. My ex-girlfriend had a black bf before me and always joked that if another came along, I was history. Again, not racism, just reporting what I've heard and experienced.

My comment, "So, I think that has something to do with it...you Black guys just ooze sex, I guess...=-) "

Was obviously said tongue firmly placed in cheek, given that by his own admission, Sojouner is middle-aged.

But, then again, one could think of Barrie White (lol).

Anyway, I appreciated your comments, and didn't mean to offend. I was just expressing what I know, but, yes probably from a Farang perspective somewhat. I am, afterall a Farang.

OTH

PosterLion
06-27-05, 10:15
I'll chime in on this subject based on knowledge obtained from the two Thai girlfriends I've had while living in Bangkok these past 17 months:

1) mixed babies (50% Thai and 50% other) is "very trendy" according to my first girlfriend. Her background is that of a college educated non-P4P girl.

2) "I am always surprised when I see a Thai girl dating a black man. But when I ask them why they go with a black man they always say, "They talk good (sweet mouth) and the sex is perfect (owgun dee!)."" This info came from my current girlfriend who is a high school educated 29-year-old Isaan girl that has been working P4P in Bangkok since the age of 16.

Cheers,
Poster

MeatMan
06-27-05, 11:27
Funny you mentioned that PosterLion because I picked up one from Isaan last night right on the Thermae steps. Very attractive looking and would not let me go without me saying yes.

I am going to be out again fellas. Right now I am at the Subway internet cafe above Nana station. If you guys see a Black guy and orange shirt, don't be afarid to shout out "HEY MEATMAN!!" I'll come over and say hello to yaz!:D

Note: I am soooooooo done with the black this and white that it's make me sick!. Let's put it all to rest fellas.

Freeler
06-27-05, 17:08
Meatman,

I'm shocked! You're black?

:D

ps check your mail

PosterLion
06-27-05, 20:24
I'm with you as far as talking about the black and the white and all the grey in between. It gets tiring, but the subject of race and color arises sometimes, so I was just speaking on that tired old subject.

:)

MeatMan
06-29-05, 22:15
You know?..

So far I have been here a week and I have seen some Thai women with ass for days!. From the women who ride the skytrains who wear there white sleeveless shirts and the black short cut tight dresses???? from the women who wear the tight jeans and tight shirts? d-a-y-u-m! I'm going to have whiplash by the time this trip ends I swear!:D

This weekend I am going to partake in the nightclubs as I have not had a chance too. I think my DTAC phone will be ringing off the hook once I am done stomping the clubs..Lookout the MeatMan is cumming!:D

MeatMan
06-29-05, 22:39
Meatman,

I'm shocked! You're black?

:D

ps check your mail

Yeah you didn't know? LOL I mentioned it a few times under wraps of course!;)

PosterLion
06-30-05, 08:00
Maybe we can coin a new term for all that female Thai ass lurking in every freakin' corner of Bangkok. It's like all the Gods got together and opened a giant can of whipASS on us dudes, especially those of us that attempt long/semi-long term relationships with these girls.

There are times when I just want to go buy groceries and come straight home, but after that can of whipASS hits me I find myself with a girl in a short-time hotel thinking: Damn! I still got to go by the store before I go home! :)

I'm pretty lucky with my current girlfriend because she understands the persistant temptation of all this pussy. She looks at me when I come home sometimes and she knows good and well that I just succumbed to the power of all those georgous asses floating about and she'll say, "Darling, I know that sometimes you have to butterfly because you are a man and that's what men do. But better I don't know about it. Okay."

At this point it's damn hard to say anything because I'm afraid of accidentally tipping her off, but the other day I had a brillant idea on the way home. When I walked in the door after being out and about for a few hours I looked at my girlfriend and said, "Baby, I'm horny as hell. I'm fucking crazy for sex right now. Everywhere I went today there was some hot girl just dying for my cock."

All I can say is, "Wow! This strategy worked like a magic charm!" Those little remarks immediately disarmed my girlfriends suspicions. She took me straight to bed and fucked my legs off. It was great sex for me and even moreso for her (she came two times). Afterwards she said, "Darling I cum two times. Now I happy too much. I give you butterfly for the next week if you want, but I still don't wanna know about it!"

Schwing!

poster...

Frank Booth
06-30-05, 16:03
Maybe we can coin a new term for all that female Thai ass lurking in every freakin' corner of Bangkok.

How about Heaven?

Old Thai Hand
06-30-05, 16:51
Poster,

I think you are a very lucky man to have a GF who is so understanding. But, I suspect it is because she is very street savvy and wise; as you yourself described "a high school educated 29-year-old Isaan girl that has been working P4P in Bangkok since the age of 16." BTW that doesn't compute. If she had finished Mor 6 she would have been 18. Unless she was doing P4P while attending high school. So, in effect she is a semi-educated 29-year-old Isaan girl...and I suspect she finished Mor 3 like most Isaan girls. No offense meant, though. She seems to be a very forgiving girl, which is a nice change in this country.

Unfortunately, your state of bliss wouldn't extend to anyone involved with a regular Thai girl. Not trying to one up you, but.. My GF is a university educated, 24-year-old traditional Chinese-Thai girl from Northern Thailand who would "cut my ass" as one of my American students used to say, if she even got a hint of any extra-curricular activity. I suspect that most, if not all regular TGs would do the same. As a rule, a regular Thai woman falls in love quickly and hard, and is insanely jealous. She is extremely covetous of her man, to the point of manic obsessiveness as a result, and won't tolerate or forgive any butterfly activity, ever.

Thailand is world renowned for medical expertise in the re-attachment of severed members. There is a very real and frightening reason for this.

So I salute your daring and dash with some envy. But, I won't emulate it.

OTH

The Traveler
06-30-05, 18:58
... who would "cut my ass" as one of my American students used to say, if she even got a hint of any extra-curricular activity...

Old Thai Hand,

just "cutting your ass" is still a humane treatment. :D

I usually hear "dat, sap, hai ped khin"
For the non-Thai speakers, TGs like to tell guys who butterfly, that they will cut their dick of, cut it into pieces and feed the ducks with it. Worst of all, it has happened in LOS a couple of times :(

Sean_Double
07-01-05, 04:26
old thai hand,

just "cutting your ass" is still a humane treatment. :d

i usually hear "dat, sap, hai ped khin"
for the non-thai speakers, tgs like to tell guys who butterfly, that they will cut their dick of, cut it into pieces and feed the ducks with it. worst of all, it has happened in los a couple of times :(
there's been a story on thai tv in the last couple of weeks about just that.
a thai guy came home reeking of pussy and the little woman got him up and whacked off his dick. it was surgically reattatched and his prognosis is: ha sip ha sip about whether it'll work again. right now it "hurts to [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134)." the wierd thing is he doesn't seem to blame her, and they've reconciled.
ominously my tg finds this story incredibly interesting, funny, and sort of heartwarming.
cheers,
sean

MeatMan
07-01-05, 05:26
Ya know,

So far I have been here for a week and I swear I thought my "Sitahs" had asses, but from looking at the women here, some of the Thai women got big firm asses too. From the women who wear the white sleeveless shirts and black short cut dresses, from the women who simply wear tight jeans and tight see though blouses? D-a-y-u-m! sexy as fuck. I have to be a fucking fool not to look!

PosterLion speaking on whiplash,I swear to god, I am going to have it by the time this ends:D

Dick Johnson
07-09-05, 13:59
Foreigners like myself who are used to open honest communication gets shafted when trying to communicate with some of these Thais girls. Jesus Christ!

PosterLion
07-10-05, 15:07
btw that doesn't compute. if she had finished mor 6 she would have been 18. unless she was doing p4p while attending high school. so, in effect she is a semi-educated 29-year-old isaan girl...and i suspect she finished mor 3 like most isaan girls..
oth

hello oth,

i assume mor 6 is a term for high school or something like that. i am not versed in thai school terminology as the girlfriend relates her stories to me using farangland terms and metaphors as much as possible.

she told me she dropped out of school to run away to bangkok when the first term/semester of her last year in high school was complete. in other words, she had one semester left before completing mor 6 if i understand your phrasiology.

maybe this will help her story compute a little better in your eyes. as for me, i believe "the-story-of-her-life" about 95%. i am a cagey listener and encourage new (thai) friends to talk too much. i think i've pretty much smoothed the wrinkles/lies out of her "life story" over the last five months.

the highlight of her school experience was a speech contest she competed in due to the encouragement of her thai language teacher, which (as she explained to me) was one of the only people in her life she believes ever loved her. she claims to have finished (a shameful) fifth place in the contest and tells me it always made her feel as if she caused her teacher to "lose face."

i was quite impressed and considered 5th place a worthy achievement considering the contest was for all the isaan provinces. one thing is certain in my mind. she is a smart girl and understands the thai language far better than the average thai person. i know this because of some of the literary books i purchased for her to read.

i bought these same books for my first thai girlfriend to read who was a thammasat educated girl and she had difficulties with the thai translations because the translation was written in very formal thai. my current non-college educated girl can understand these books as well as my old college educated girlfriend could, so i am sure she excelled in her thai language studies in high school.

please don't worry about one-uping me as i'm not trying to perform any one-ups myself. i won't go so far as to say that all my posts on the board are void of arrogant braggadario type comments, but i will say that i try to stick to the truth, even when writing in a pat-myself-on-the-back style.

as for being lucky: i consider myself to be extremely lucky so far since moving to thailand. i've had two girlfriends. one was a college educated non p4p girl and the other (current one) is a no-holds-barred p4p girl. although i am making her into a semi-honest girl via staying with her for 5 months and running.

why am i lucky?

1) i have no horror stories to tell that involve me personally
2) i still have my nest egg
3) i still have a remnant of sanity (i've not yet found myself contemplating a dive out of a pattaya hotel window)
and 4)...

i still have my cock! :)

by the way. my girl friend likes to call the cut-off-blended-penis "laab quoi" (please forgive my spelling), but she does not tell me she wants to feed it to the ducks, no. she says, "do you want to eat minced penis? (yak khin laap quoi mai?)

PosterLion
07-10-05, 15:41
Foreigners like myself who are used to open honest communication gets shafted when trying to communicate with some of these Thais girls. Jesus Christ!

DJ,

It was good to meet up with you in Bangkok dude! And thank you WAY much for your crazy hospitality! Are you still there? I caught a jet out on the 4th for Oklahoma because I was over due for a visit with Khun Mher. After all, when Moma ain't happy, nobody's happy.

One thing is certain concerning "open and honest communication". You've got to throw out your blissfully smoothed over fawningly naive americana viewpoints of "girl guy" relationships when in Thailand. And for that matter, any third world country.

Once I was in Rzeszow, Poland drinking quarts of Vodka with some of my buddies after a wedding when we began discussing the virtues of open and honest communications. After much babble and bullshit we came to the conclusion that while attempts at open and honest communication are indeed morally admirable, the truth is more precisely and more quickly determined via the lie.

After our discovery we coined a new (at least to us) toast. We raised our glasses in thanksgiving and said, "The fastest way to the truth is through a lie!"

I would take that phrase to heart if I were you when you start thinking about "open and honest communications" in your future third world "guy girl" relationships.

Just my two pence,
poster

P.S. Hope to see you again in the Land of Smiles!

Old Thai Hand
07-11-05, 05:42
Hi PosterLion,

Mor 6 = 12th grade in US, approximately, although not exactly.

On reading your reply, it sounds quite plausible. On reflection, I realized that there are some variations in ages in Thai schools, especially in upcountry schools. Even in Bkk, I have had first year university students as young as 17, although the normal entry age is 18 or 19.

Your suggestion that you GFs capabilities and intellingence are equal to or maybe better than your previous Thammasat GF doesn't surprise me at all. Up until 2 years ago I had a GF (of 4 years) from Roi-et who, although she only had completed Mor 3 when I met her was a voracious reader, with a particular interest in Egyptology, none the less - very un-Thai. She was so quick to learn that she went back to school and completed Mor 4- 6 in just over a year. She spoke no English when I met her. But, within 2 years she was almost fluent. She still ranks as probably one of the most intelligent Thai woman I have ever met, especially if you factor in the kind of country wisdom that you get from some Thais. She certainly could hold her own in the academic circles in which I move, easily conversing with PhDs with 5 times the education, but sometimes far less intelligence. She had a lot of street smarts which I suspect you current GF has as well.

Your comments on lying to Dick Johnson were a propos with regards to Thai women, probably all Asian women, as well. Lying here isn't conceptually the same as lying in the West. For one thing, it is usually done to "save face" in its various permutations. In fact your previous post about your GF not wanting to know the truth or details of your activities is one illustration of this. As long as it's not articulated and remains unspoken, despite her knowledge of it, she won't lose face.

Thais in general lie all the time. It's permeates the culture. But, they don't see it as lying the way Westerners think of lying. They often see it more as protecting the other person from the truth, because the truth could cause them pain. So, as slightly warped as it may sound, they are being very Thai in that they are considering your feelings by lying to you to protect those feelings.

In the case of P4P girls, lying also serves this purpose, but with the added dimension of being self-serving to their interests. So, when the BG fawns all over a Farang saying how handsome and young he is, she is also doing it to make him feel good, but with the very real purpose of getting him to part with his money. It's simply ingrained into her psyche, like any other Thai woman.

The way to deal with it is quite simple...when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Believe only half of what you hear, and remain skeptical even of that, and then lie as vigourously to them. It works like a charm. Everyone stays happy, which is central to the Thai mindset.

It's all about maintaining the illusion of what I like to call a consensus of civility. That's the Thai way.

Dick Johnson
07-11-05, 15:52
Posterlion, I'll try to remember that and figure it out. There does seem to be some truth to that. I wish I heard that a few days earlier.

It was nice meeting you and your girl, and you two do seem to have a working relationship.

I get driven up the wall a few times. On the other hand, I do think that sometimes communications are ok with some girls. But when arguements start...

On another note, that girl I was so crazy about, I got her:).

Evil Penivel
07-18-05, 16:59
chocolate is a surefire gift for bgs and other p4p providers. but if you really want to make an impression, give them the cock and pussy shaped chocolates available online or in specialty stores (every big city has an erotic bakery or confectioner).

do a google for "teenie peenies" or "chocolate cocks* and you'll come up with dozens of suppliers. erotic chocolates come in all sizes and shapes, from the 1/2-inch, bite-sized teenie peenies to 12-inch, life-like behemoths. same goes for chocolate pussies. you can also get suckers on a stick featuring chocolate teddy bears that are whacking off, male and female torsos, bunnies screwing and even hollow cocks filled with white cream.

why go to the trouble and expense of buying chocolate cocks when you can get chocolate at $1.00 a bag at walmart? because the effect on the girls is extraordinary. chocolate, while always appreciated and enjoyed, is not exactly something that's unknown to tgs. they've seen and tasted it all, from gourmet belgian varieties through plain old hershey's or cadbury's. but a chocolate cock will be something new for the vast majority of them. anytime you give a tg a gift that's new, funny and exciting, she'll love you for it. also, it gives her face in front of colleagues (they'll wish they had gotten the same) and that's never a bad thing. gifts like chocolate cocks are a cost-effective way of establishing rapport that money alone can't buy you.

one example- a few years ago i passed out some teenie peenies in a bkk go-go bar and they were a big hit with the girls. in january, i returned to the same bar and the mamasan recognized me immediately as the guy with the chocolate cocks. that perked up the interest of all the girls and i got a lot of inquisitive looks. when i produced another box of teenie peenies and pussies, the effect was enormous. the girls mobbed me, all of them wanted a sample. at the time, there was only one other farang in the bar and he'd apparently been buying lds for the bar's top hottie all afternoon (hadn't spared himself either, the guy was sloshed).

she immediately deserted him and ran over to partake of the chocolate. the guy was pretty irritated about that, especially when another girl, on her way back to the stage, held the 1/2-inch chocolate cock close to his groin and said, "same as you." he swatted at her in a not-very-friendly fashion, but she was the veteran of dozens of such encounters and glided away from him with ease.

whether it was the frustration of the afternoon or a lifetime, the guy decided to vent his anger on me. he yelled that i'd "ruined everything" for him with a cheap trick, american always want to dominate, etc, etc. i answered that it would be impossible for me or chocolate cocks to ruin anything for him, his mother and father had done that decisively on the night he was conceived, an occasion that truly could be described as a cheap trick.

he failed to appreciate the humor in my comment. in fact, he roared with anger and looked ready to have a go at me. i wasn't too worried - we were about equally matched in size and age, plus i was stone sober and he was stumble drunk. i figured i could take him down without even having to throw a punch. i slipped off the barstool and prepared to take countermeasures in case he entered my strike zone.

but then the amazing happened. the bgs and the mamasan all got between us. it wasn't a neutral peacekeeping mission, they were definitely on my side. that was a coalition of the willing of the best sort - me and thai bgs. the drunk guy's recent hottie companion more or less led the efforts. neither he nor i understood what she saying in thai, but anyone could gather from the classic enraged bg performance she wasn't wishing him pleasant things. the guy got more aggressive, starting throwing beer bottles and at that point, he encountered the bar's security personnel (that's not an official job classification, but you get the idea).

i won't include any scenes of gratuitous violence, but let's just say my afternoon had a sweeter ending than his. i thought i was honored-bound to see that miss hottie didn't lose in the process and assumed personal responsibility for her well-being the rest of the afternoon and night. she was thankful in the appropriate manner.

i can't know for sure, but i doubt a box of those seashell chocolates you buy inflight would have had the same effect.

teddy bares

teddy bears are a tried and true inexpensive gift for tgs. forget other stuffed animals, it’s teddy bears that count. miniature bears, about 2” tall, are the favorites, but all smaller bears, up to 5” or 6” are appreciated. larger than that and tgs tend to think of them as toys for children rather than collectibles befitting sexy girls. tgs will certainly accept a larger bear as a present, but will pass it on to the baby or child of a friend/relative, rather than keep it themselves.

you can get the miniature bears for a buck or so in walmart and similar discount stores, even cheaper just after valentine’s day. because the bears have proved so popular with tgs inside and outside p4p, i usually carry 20 to 40 with me to los, depending on how active i plan to be and how much space i have in my suitcase. doesn’t really matter how many i take with me, i could give away many more, they’re in such high demand. if i run across an appealing 5” bear, i usually get it as well as a present for a special girl.

it’s astounding the effect teddy bears can have on some bgs. one cute 20-something literally bounced with joy on my bed after getting a nice 5” bear. when it was time to sleep after a session of particularly enthusiastic sex, she grabbed the bear again and slept all night hugging it. when she awoke the next morning, she continued to make a fuss over the bear. i had ordered a room service breakfast and she carried the bear to the table, then even pretended to feed it.

i didn’t know whether to laugh or cry – at least i was relieved we weren’t having breakfast in the executive lounge. it amused me that a girl who was expert at anal sex and thought nothing of cim, swallowing and even more advanced activities could find so much joy in such a simple thing. on the other hand, i found it vaguely disturbing she related to a teddy bear in the same way as my three-year-old niece.

about 10 years ago, while i was working a 36-month stint in beijing, i returned to the u.s. during february on home leave. a colleague had asked me bring her back some miniature bears, heart-shaped chocolates and hair baubles - the kind girls use to hold pony tails in place. she planned to give them as favors to the guests at a combination birthday/valentine’s day party for her six-year-old daughter. i figured those three categories- bears, chocolate and hair baubles, would make good gifts for the bgs in los i planned to see on my way back from the states before returning to beijing. so i bought the 10 of each my colleague had requested, then 20 of each for my own purposes.

i had anticipated my gifts would prove popular at the bar, but wasn’t prepared for quite the reaction that occurred. the girls shrieked with delight and some almost fought over bears or baubles that were deemed particularly desirable. pink, sparkly hair baubles and female teddy bears with skirts were the most sought after.

a few days later, in beijing, i had anticipated the favors would prove popular at the party for my colleague’s daughter, but wasn’t prepared for quite the reaction that occurred. the girls shrieked with delight and some almost fought over bears or baubles that were deemed particularly desirable. pink, sparkly hair baubles and female teddy bears were the most sought after.

did i just write something profoundly revealing?

everything else, including the kitchen sink

besides chocolate and teddy bears, perfume makes up the standard trinity of presents for thai girls. however, it’s best to know what scent your girl prefers. not all perfumes that are appreciated in europe or north america appeal to thai girls. designer perfumes from jennifer lopez or brittney spears are big favorites, much more because of the name than the scent, i suspect.

outside the trinity, there are still a lot of inexpensive options for gifts. in my work, i used to attend a lot of trade shows and collected shopping bags of every conceivable sample. some of these items were worth real money, up to hundreds of dollars, others were cheap give-aways. mostly i passed them on to the maids at the hotel or p4p providers and bar girls. i figured they could sell them if they didn’t want them. but it never ceased to amaze me what appealed to some girls. they’d shun a genuine leather handbag that retails for $250 in the u.s. but go crazy over a shiny necklace worth about $10.00. tgs love sparkly stuff – any bauble that shined or sparkled was a big hit.

but many of the girls have a practical side as well. one became ecstatic over an ergonomically designed vegetable peeler! she said you couldn’t get peelers like that in bkk and it would save her mother so much time and effort.

also the manner in which they accept gifts was impressive. i gave one girl two shopping bags filled with an assortment of items, truly a mixed bag – cosmetics, jewelry, household items, toys, small electronic items, pens, baubles galore and even some food items. she selected a few for herself and her family, then spent the next hour dividing the rest up to be given to the girls at her establishment. she opened every package, every little box and thought hard about who should get what. she then wrote the name of the recipient on scraps of paper she taped to each item. the next day, when i went back to see her again, the other girls all hugged and thanked me for the presents.

it’s just one of those little details that makes p4p in thailand so much more satisfying than anywhere else.

Coma Boy
07-19-05, 11:06
Evil, stick with teddies, or better still cell-phones, gold, ya-ba, or cash.

Trying to get Kohn Thai to eat chocolate is like trying to um... make a dog eat vegetables, or something.

Duniawala
07-19-05, 15:42
Evil, stick with teddies, or better still cell-phones, gold, ya-ba, or cash.

Trying to get Kohn Thai to eat chocolate is like trying to um... make a dog eat vegetables, or something.

Don't tell me, they don't like chocolates? That is strange.

Evil Penivel
07-19-05, 16:30
Trying to get Kohn Thai to eat chocolate is like trying to um... make a dog eat vegetables, or something.I have to disagree with you on that one. Every TG I've encountered over the past 25 years has loved chocolate in just about any form except dark or bittersweet. Reason I began taking chocolate with me is that so many girls asked for it and always wanted to eat the chocolate out of the in-room mini-bar. Maybe a few girls two days out of Isaan will prefer the honey-boiled beetles, but all the others are crazy for chocolate.

Tsk, tsk, mentioning yaba.

Old Thai Hand
07-19-05, 16:38
Coma,

I disagree about Thais disliking chocolate, at least Thai women. Almost every Thai woman I've ever met loves the stuff. My current GF is the exception. She hates it. But, chocolate was one of my ex-GFs favorite things; especially chocolate icecream from Swensen's and expensive, imported chocolates. I bought her a huge box of Godiva chocolates once and she polished it off in two days.

More interestingly, I had another GF who had the idea one day to put chocolate sauce and whipped cream on my dick; quite a messy and sticky sensation for me at first, but it proved worthwhile in the end when it came to the "licking clean" part.
We were shopping at the grocery store at Emporium and she picked up the chocolate sauce and I asked her what she wanted with that and she smiled and said, "For tonight's dessert". I didn't actually get it, until she surprised me later on with "dessert".

Coma Boy
07-19-05, 16:57
Strange but true.

Some do, most don't.

Phuquer
07-19-05, 17:00
Coma Boy, I hate to disagree with you. The Thai girls that I know are absolute chocoholics. They love chocolate. They always ask me to bring them chocolate when I go to LOS, as it is more expensive there, and the best ones are harder to find. They like Godiva, Ghirardelli, Hershey's, even US Kit Kat (it's different from the Swiss one in LOS, although I prefer the one in LOS. Go figure).

Coma Boy
07-19-05, 17:09
Yeah, Thai Kit-Kats suck!

1Ball
07-19-05, 23:32
Thai kit - Kat is better than NO Kit - Kat.

Little Wing
07-19-05, 23:32
This is an interesting and potentialy useful discussion. Can you guys reach a consensus before I get to the duty-free this weekend?

I tried, unsuccessfully, to buy chocolate for a TBG in a Hong Kong 7-11 last year. ("No, make me fat."). I'm not entirely confident of her nutritional savvy, since she insisted that we needed a good supply of beer for the night :)

Sean_Double
07-20-05, 04:43
I hate to disagree as well, but my TG loves chocolate. Her favorite is the green Toblerone, although she'll eat any kind. Everyone in her family seems to crave chocolate in any form.
BTW, Speaking of food. I've been told by a couple of Thai girls that they don't eat cheese because it makes their pussy smell bad. And that its good for a guy to eat a lot of pineapple because it makes their cum taste good.

Cheers,
Sean

Coma Boy
07-20-05, 12:23
Can you guys reach a consensus before I get to the duty-free this weekend?Just buy them anyway, if you can't find any Thai girls who want them, then you can eat them yourself. Yummy!

Duniawala
07-20-05, 17:24
Get some liquor filled chocolates. They are great and the few TGs I have given them to, went crazy for it. Hershey kisses are also a good bet.

Evil Penivel
07-20-05, 22:23
This is an interesting and potentialy useful discussion. Can you guys reach a consensus before I get to the duty-free this weekend?Consensus is too much to ask for, but can find good advice aplenty. Even if your particular TG is one of the few that doesn't like chocolate, she'll be happy to get it anyway as it makes a prestigious luxury present for her family/friends.

Phuquer
07-21-05, 17:49
I think we have reached a concensus of sorts. Chocolates won't hurt, and they can help. They are not an expensive gift. Go ahead and get some. Try to get ones that you can't get in Thailand, or are more expensive there. Toblerone is a good idea. Godiva is also good. If you are going from America, then Hershey's (they have premium chocolates that make a good gift), or Ghirardelli from San Fransisco (you can get them anywhere in the states). If you transit through Japan, then Meiji chocolates are good.

JuiceSpike
07-21-05, 18:05
Try cash.... they will not be dissapointed. Universal gift... :D

juice

Dinghy
07-21-05, 18:16
Candy's dandy but liquor's quicker - anyway - the sweeter the better for Khon Thai.

I was surprised at TG reaction to miniature liquor bottles - I guess they don't see too many 50ml bottles. The ones I gave some to (I used to collect them on flights) opened, sniffed, tasted, capped and put away the bottle. Then, of course, they were perfectly happy to share my khuat-yai of whatever I happened to bring on the trip

As to liquor chocolates (combining both ideas) - those are sort of hard to find in the US. I remember years ago when I was in Germany, going to the candy shop (Konditorei if I remember the spelling) and buying some of the great cognac filled Bohnen (beans). Just can't do that HERE.

My MAJOR beef is that I can't get BIG bottles of non-sugar cola in LOS - gra-bong, (cans) yes, 2lt bottles, no - the biggest I found at rong Lo-tut - (Lotus in english) was 1lt. That's good for 1/2 hour in the sun (to drink it, not wait for it to warm up)

Then there's the funny about eating pineapple - so sapilotte is supposed to make you taste better? At least Thai sapilote isn't NEAR as acid as the ones we get here. Gin oi - once you get by the smell, you got it licked.

eek sip-song ahr-tit (12 more weeks)

Coma Boy
07-21-05, 18:25
And could someone please bring me some Fry's Turkish Delight from the UK.

The Traveler
07-21-05, 19:39
Try cash.... they will not be dissapointed. Universal gift... :D

Juice,

right and wrong !

It might be ok for a P4P girl but try it with a regular, she might get very angry about you. And try it with a girl from a wealthy family and she will laugh her ass off about you and getting angry of course too.

JuiceSpike
07-21-05, 22:01
Traveler, you are wrong... I know of guys who have married a very wealthy Thai and have given the family a nice US stock portfolio to show their gratitude and cash worthiness. In return, the family was very gracious and accomodating and no one was laughing. In the world of real money there is more to know what you think you know.

juice

Old Thai Hand
07-22-05, 04:17
Traveler

I agree with Juice on this one.

I am at the beginning stages of negotiations with my Thai-Chinese GFs family. If and when we get married, I'm looking at 1 million baht and about 30 baht (250,000 baht) in gold. They could buy and sell me a million times over. But, they'll still keep half of the cash. The girl gets the gold.

I get an extremely hot 23-year-old babe who despite her wealth isn't a stuck-up ***** (like so many hi-so girls are), but one of the sweetest TGs I've ever known. I also get a very well-connected family, who actually like Farangs (a rarity) and who can only help my prospects here.

I consider it a good investment.

1Ball
07-22-05, 05:44
OTH, and Juice, I believe what Traveler meant was if you hand a rich girl a couple of thousand after having fucked her, she would laugh and you, then get angry. He was not talking about a situation where it involved a long term thing. remember this discussion has been revolving around bringing a TG some chocolate.

Thought I would try to run interception before the sparks start flying over which is better, chocolate, or cash.

PEACE :)

My 500th post, and it is a post trying to calm things down before they get out of hand, again. I am so proud of myself !!!!

:rolleyes:

Old Thai Hand
07-22-05, 06:01
Public affection between Farang and BGs is often a subject bemoaned by Samus Aran and perhaps this would be better posted in his thread.

But, I thought here it would get a wider reading and perhaps prevent one more idiot from snogging his girl in full view of disapproving Thais.

This particular story is slightly different, though. It's not about the usual love-struck tub o' lard from Dusseldorf slobbering over his little brown monkey from Surin in broad daylight, but, a pseudo-academic from Luton mascarading as a certified scholar snuggling the neck of his hi-so student GF on the skytrain.

Although I don't work with this particular "Ajarn", because he's an ESL teacher and I don't stoop to run with that crowd, I am acquainted with him and more importantly his student GF, a part-time, semi-famous Thai model.

First of all, how he scored her I don't know. This guy, although not totally hideous couldn't get laid in Soho if he paid for it, which is saying something. He's 46, has a defined receding hairline in his over-gelled hair-hard enough to crack an egg on, a gold earing in one ear and wears clothing more appropriately suited to a 20-something college preppie, surfer-dude complete with mirror sun-glasses.
His pasty complexion, developed from long spells down at the pub out of the "blazing" English sunshine passes for handsome in Thailand, where white skin is coveted by all women and which may explain the rather strange allure he has with his female students.

He does think himself very cool, indeed.

His "education" is courtesy of a Khao San Road degree that no-one bothered to check. He never completed his A-levels let alone went to university.

Two weeks ago, I encountered him glued firmly to his statuesque GF in her university uniform in full view on the skytrain somewhere between Ekkamai and Prompong (Emporium). Schoolbooks losely cradled in one hand while his other slithered around the waist of his uneasy student companion, he looked particularly "oily" that day as he jammed his face into the girl's neck. He seemed quite proud of himself and his trophy as all looked on in slight horror and real disgust, more so because she is recognizable to many Thais. As he apparently bit her neck, she started to laugh. He took this as encouragement and become a little bolder. She stiffened in obvious discomfort, but otherwise didn't move, too embarrassed to say or do anything other than make a half-hearted attempt to push his face away.

Although not my business, I felt it my duty at this point to try to educate this relative newbie yob in the niceties of Thai culture as he was doing serious damage to the already sullied reputation that Farang have in this country.

I pointed out to him that her giggling, rather than a sign of desire and horniness was in fact, shear humiliation. There is a subtle difference between when a TG laughs when she thinks something is funny and when she is so humiliated that she would rather die.

It's a matter of context. So, when for instance the fat Farang picks up and flings his BG GF in her newly-bought bikini into the grimey Pattaya sea, her skreaks of joy are in facts shreaks of embarassment. She would rather be anywhere than with her new "love" at that particular moment as he compounds her humiliation by splashing water all over her.

However, my "colleague", though didn't seem to take kindly to my advice. In his most eloquent British accent, straight off the docks, I suspect told me to "sod off" with a threatening glare and a clenched fist (well, at least I got him to take his hand off the girl's waist, so he could accentuate his threat).

So, I turned my attention to the GF, who happened to have been one of my students last year and told her in Thai (he couldn't understand) in a slightly loud voice so that others could hear, that her Ajarn-BF, far from being the educated, hip English bloke she thought he was, was a fraud and no better in his own country than a common Isaan laborer working on construction on Bagna Trad Highway. This got her attention. Afterall, her status was now in jeopardy. So, she moved gingerly away from him.

He was quite displeased with me at this point, and shouting at the girl to tell him what I said. This just made her move further away from him. He was about to come at me when I pointed out to him that I knew the true nature of his qualifications and that it would be better for him to stick to teaching and stop trying to shag his students.

She subsequently dumped him and his cache dropped significantly with the girls at the university. I suspect he may be back to the pub in Luton soon, as his degree is now suddenly being verified by the university language institute.

More likely, though he will probably end up in some third-rate language school, making 20,000/month trying desperately to stay in Thailand, any way he can rather than return to menial labor back home.

So, if you see an over-gelled, pasty-faced, middle-aged wanker, with a gold earing and slightly disheveled hipster duds, slumped over a beer Singha at the outside bar at the Nana hotel trying to chat up the teenage girls who want to shine his Doc Maartens, say hello for me.

Old Thai Hand
07-22-05, 06:07
1ball

Point taken.

Yes. Not only would a rich TG laugh at you if you handed her a few thousand baht. But, she'd probably be pissed off, as well.

I've found in the past that a certain segment of rich TG like to have a Farang as a "Gig" (loosely...F***-friend in Thai). So, money shouldn't enter the equation in that situation.

Chocolates, well, that's another matter entirely. LOL

Coma Boy
07-22-05, 06:35
Wow, an infallable peacekeeping post.

Yes, correct, and you've nipped that potential arguement in the bud.

Good work.

Seydlitz
07-22-05, 10:46
I am at the beginning stages of negotiations with my Thai-Chinese GFs family. If and when we get married, I'm looking at 1 million baht and about 30 baht (250,000 baht) in gold. They could buy and sell me a million times over. But, they'll still keep half of the cash. The girl gets the gold.

I get an extremely hot 23-year-old babe who despite her wealth isn't a stuck-up ***** (like so many hi-so girls are), but one of the sweetest TGs I've ever known. I also get a very well-connected family, who actually like Farangs (a rarity) and who can only help my prospects here.

I consider it a good investment.

OTH,

I can see your point, and I agree that for you it is a very wise investment. You will get the money back manyfold in connections and business opportunities.

However, my question regarding your future in-laws is: what is in it for them? I mean, it cannot be the money you bring, and in Asia the personal inclination of a daugther is probably not enough to get a rich well-connected family to welcome a stranger.

I am very curious to see the situation from their viewpoint; I might follow your example one day:).

JuiceSpike
07-22-05, 14:35
1ball,

A gift is a gift. If the pre-qualifying thing is to give her (hooker) a gift after fucking her then I believe cash is always good but if you are the romantic type then give her chocolate, gum, flowers, gold, whatever... If she is a good in bed I prefer to tip her well.

If you are talking about a regular "wealthy" woman then cash to a wealthy family for fucking their daughter and marrying her to keep fucking her for the long term is a good thing. Of course you don't just hand over a wad of cash...:D

OTH,

I hope the age difference between you and your future 23 yo wife is not too big. I'm a optimistic cynic and if the age is difference is big then she might be doing it for her family. Don't get me wrong and I'm sure your relationship goes beyond the sex thing/money hungry thing... 1 million baht is not much for a wealthy family in Thailand, a family worth at least 10 US million (which in the US does not mean much or wealthy either). But being "wealthy" means different things for everybody. Some regular Thai girls working regular office like jobs that come from a middle class (Thai standards) hope for that 1 million baht deal as it gains lots of face for them and their families.

As far as being a wise investment I think that is a personal decision.

There are stories out there where money is not exchanged or a very small amount is when a western guy marries an educated Thai woman either from middle class or "rich" family. Thais exposed to the western life style or western type of values understand that what it is important for them is that their daughter is happy and has found a guy that will take care of her in more ways than just with money. Not all Thai are money hungry but many do think marrying a western guy is a way to secure their economic future.

juice

Duniawala
07-22-05, 15:13
Dinghy

You can get these mostly at Christmas time/season in the US. You can get them at Costco and Sams club.

Dowry

The poorer the family is, the more important it is. Generally, the more modern/liberal families will not ask for anything, but traditionalists will.

Just my 2 cents.

Old Thai Hand
07-22-05, 15:34
JuiceSpike,

Since posting my report on my dowry negotiations, things have taken a turn in my favor. The GF's family has offered to give back all the money for our future together. Also, they have offered to give 25 baht in gold from family heirlooms. I will only have to buy the engagement ring. The traditional bracelet, necklace, and earrings will come from the family. In reality, at this level it's mainly for show at the engagement party. They certainly don't need the money as much as I do. In any event. this is all sort of casual discussion at this stage. Any marriage won't take place for at least a year or more. They just wanted to let me know what I was up against. There were no particular surprises for me.

No matter whether a poor farmgirl or a hi-so girl, the dowry is primarily for saving face and either maintaining or gaining status. Of course, in the case of the poor farmgirl, the family most definitely would keep the money. But, we're only talking 50,000 baht at that level of society, so no big deal.

I've been here a long time and have been to a variety of weddings at all levels of society and am pretty savvy when it comes to this sort of thing.

Some years ago Bernard Trink published in the Bangkok Post a detailed breakdown of the dowry system that I sent him. I think I posted an abbreviated version of it here sometime last year.

I have a pretty in-depth knowledge of this as among other things, I teach a comparative culture course and spend a lot of time delving into the concept behind and the history of the dowry system, not only in Thailand, but other places like India, Pakistan and the Middle East.

The age difference is not as big a deal as you might think. And, the truth here is that she approached me. I was skeptical at first. But, afterall, it's not like she's after me for my money. I'm not about to argue my good fortune. As hard as it is for me to believe, she actually likes me. In general, there are a lot of regular TGs who go after older Farang in Thailand because they've had bad experiences with and don't generally trust Thai men. But, you do need to be somewhat established and know the culture well.

Seydlitz

To your question, "What's in it for the in-laws?" , I'd answer by saying first that they actually are taking into account of their daughter's wishes. That's the main thing. They're well-travelled and pretty open-minded. Secondly, without trying to blow my own horn, I'm not exactly some ESL Geek fresh off Khao San Road teaching at some 4th-rate language school. For a Farang, I'm fairly well-established in Thai academia, was closely involved in the now defunct Ministry of University Affairs (now part of the Ministry of Ed.) and have well-placed friends at that Ministry as well as places like Chulalonkhorn U. Without being too specific, I can also say that I work for an institution directly connected to the Royal Palace. Let's just say I know the right people, and they think highly of me and leave it at that.

This all sounds a bit pompous. But, in truth, I don't make a big deal of it. At the end of the day, I'm still not Thai, so have to constantly try harder to maintain a position that others are often handed simply because of who they are.

Coma Boy
07-22-05, 17:18
This particular story is slightly different... a pseudo-academic from Luton mascarading as a certified scholar snuggling the neck of his hi-so student GF on the skytrain... etc. etc. etc.Old Thai Hand- excellent, good work! You're now my hero.

I fucking hate those scumbag English teachers, and scumbags of all varieties lurking around in this country. I hope that loser never gets to teach again in Asia.

You should have thrown that spotty piece of shit onto the BTS tracks.

Keep up the good work.

JuiceSpike
07-22-05, 17:38
OTH,

I got it...dowries and other things. Good luck!

Regarding your "Public affection with a TG" post I thought it was excellent and your intervention was a good call. I would not be surprised if that guy ends up where he started. Nowhere.

But it is interesting how he got the girl. Was it sex? Was it his personality? :D More and more regular Thai women are slowly braking tradition and doing their own thing like western girls looking for an adventure (sexually) or just rebelling to be different. I find this with educated modern/liberal types in Bangkok.

The Traveler
07-22-05, 19:26
Juice,

1ball did get my message, you did not.

The guys were talking about little presents, not a dowry. So if you try to hand over a few baht to a regular or a wealthy Thai as a "present" before or after you shagged her, she will definitely reject it and think of you of being an idiot.

It's not the amount, it's what you are saying by it.
Even a small and cheap present - may it be a teddy bear or some chocolate - would be much more appreciated than your money. They aren't P4P and don't want to be seen as one.

Dowry is a totally different story.

The Traveler
07-22-05, 19:38
1ball

Point taken.

Yes. Not only would a rich TG laugh at you if you handed her a few thousand baht. But, she'd probably be pissed off, as well.

OTH,

that's exactly what I said, besides rejecting the money she would be pissed off.

If Juice should ever have the opportunity to meet such a girl - which I doubt for various reasons - he should try to hand over a few baht and shouldn't wonder about the outcome. It's just another kind of insult for her.

Coma Boy
07-22-05, 20:05
The secret to true Thai love.

Old Thai Hand
07-22-05, 23:25
This is a little side-bar to the topic of rich TGs and money. But, in a way it relates somewhat loosely and is an interesting anecdote at least in terms of TG attitude.

Last year there was a great furor over the blunt sexiness of university uniforms as worn by the decidely awe-inspiring female students at Bangkok University. It rated front page, above the fold news in the Bangkok Post with accompanying color pic of said girls lounging suggestively, buttons a-popping on the steps of building 9 (the main building on the city campus).

The story essentially said, and I can attest that this is indeed true that Bangkok U. girls were very loosely "interpreting" the dress code by wearing, their skirts far too short and too tight and wearing blouses that can best be described as painted on rather than buttoned up. In fact it was and still is common practice for BU girls to have at least the two top buttons provocatively undone.

The point of the story was that the president of the university had offered the awesome prize of 4,500 baht in jewelry as incentive for the girls to loosen their blouses (fit-wise, that is) and to lengthen their skirts. To say the least, this campaign met with guffaws of derision from the BU girls....perhaps that should be 'titters' rather than 'guffaws' as I doubt a single BU girl has ever uttered a 'guffaw' in her life. So 'titters' of derision, then.

because given the individual and collective wealth of your average BU girl, 4,500 baht would amount to nothing more than lunch money to most.

I wondered at the time if the president had ever bothered to look in the student parking lot to see the rows of gleaming BMWs and Mercedes or new-version Mini Coopers or Volkswagen Beetles for those who were slumming. Obviously he hadn't and his campaign and the meagre reward he was offering to inspire the girls to become once-again virginal and demure (fat chance) was a dismal failure.

The Post article quoted the girls as pointedly saying they wouldn't trade-in their sexy look for any amount of baubles or trinkets. This fact was verified by the on-campus uniform seller who bemoaned the fact that she had to keep small sizes only in stock because the girls invariably would only wear uniforms that were two sizes too small.

On writing this post, I had a sudden flashback to a particular Luk-kreung (half Farang, half Thai) female student leaning over my desk to ask me a question with THREE buttons undone and a low-cut black bra that made it hard (no pun intended) to maintain eye contact. This reminded me of the other flagrant rule violation....no colored underwear...only white, opaque allowed. This rule is also completely ignored. In fact, because the skirts are so tight and the girls don't want any VPL (visible panty line) thongs or nothing at all are quite common.

I've been flashed numerous times and can say that salary aside, the job has it's perqs.

JuiceSpike
07-23-05, 13:45
Nice post.... your job comes with some nice perks. :)


juice

PosterLion
07-23-05, 17:41
I've been reading the reports on gift giving since Doctor Evil reported on the Chocolate Penis and Teddy Bears. It's been quite interesting!

Coma chimed in with the idea of Gold and/or Jewelry and/or Yaba. JuiceSpike said, "Hey man, money is always good", at which point the discussion stalled a little and detoured into the merits of whether giving money was a good idea with HiSo versus LoSo. I liked Old Thai Hands dowry reports as well. My take on gifts follows.

Gift giving, at least in the Thai Tradition, revolves around the concept of Nam-Jai (spelling may be incorrect). Nam-Jai in farang terms means (in approximation), generosity. This concept (Nam-Jai) is one of the central themes in Thai culture. The Dowry and the idea of giving money to your girlfriend or wife's parents comes from this precept and is deeply embedded in the Thai psyche. If you don't take the time to understand Nam-Jai, you do so at your own peril.

I did not know about Nam-Jai when I first moved to Bangkok and my lack of understanding affected my first relationship. My first girlfriend always complained that I never bought her anything that she wanted. She was always asking for high-end mobile phones or computer gear or electronic dictionaries, as she is a techno-junkie. I always refused her saying that she already had a phone and that she could use my computer when she wanted it.

Personally, in the beginning, I found all these requests highly irritating and I still do today, but in a different degree. Eventually I did break down and bought my first girlfriend a high-end workstation that I built from scratch at Pantip with best parts available at the time. She was thrilled and made a point to show everyone that visited us (especially her sisters and other close relatives) her TOP-END workstation. I always more or less hated this because I considered it showing-off and the funny thing, now that I understand Nam-Jai, is that it is indeed showing-off.

But here is the deal. She was not so much showing off the computer as she was trying to demonstrate to her friends and relatives that her boyfriend has Nam-Jai. In fact, she was attempting to show me off. I still find all this face-saving-prestige-inspired stuff as mostly bullshit, but at least I understand it. On the other hand, when done properly, Nam-Jai works.

My first experience of reciprocated Nam-Jai happened to me by accident. I was with my first girlfriend and her family. There were fifteen of us in all and we were going down to the sea in a bus her family had rented. When we arrived at our destination one of my girlfriends aunts exclaimed that it was time to eat and that I was to pay for the meal! This pissed me off to a high degree but I kept my cool and took the fifteen hungry people out to dinner. After that day my girlfriend's aunt sent us a box of beef jerky and spiced peanuts once a month. My girlfriend told me that in fact her aunt was sending the food solely to me because of the dinner I paid for.

The bottom line concerning gifts is this: any gift is a good gift, but the best gifts are those that show the highest degree of Nam-Jai. Giving money and/or gold are probably the highest on the list for the average Thai, but anything that gives the recipient a high degree of face will do. I still don’t like the whole concept too much because many Thai girls like to stir up jealousy and envy by showing-off the things they receive from their boyfriend’s Nam-Jai. It is similar to the farlang way of showing wealth with expensive cars and/or clothes. You all know the saying, “He who dies with the most toys wins”, right?

In my opinion, “he who dies with no regrets” is a much better slogan for success in life, but that’s just me. I can tell you from my personal experience that since I’ve learned about Nam-Jai, my life in Thailand has become much more rewarding and my experience with the ladies has been very pleasurable.

A word of caution is needed concerning Nam-Jai. Do not think that because you give a lady a gift that you are going to get something back in return. If you do this you are bound to be disappointed. Also, don’t be stupid and buy gold necklaces for a Thai girl until you have a good idea that she actually likes you. If you buy an expensive gift too early, a Thai lady will think you are an idiot and properly label you as a buffalo.

Poster...

MeatMan
07-23-05, 18:59
My first experience of reciprocated Nam-Jai happened to me by accident. I was with my first girlfriend and her family. There were fifteen of us in all and we were going down to the sea in a bus her family had rented. When we arrived at our destination one of my girlfriends aunts exclaimed that it was time to eat and that I was to pay for the meal! This pissed me off to a high degree but I kept my cool and took the fifteen hungry people out to dinner. After that day my girlfriend's aunt sent us a box of beef jerky and spiced peanuts once a month. My girlfriend told me that in fact her aunt was sending the food solely to me because of the dinner I paid for.

Poster...

Good thing it paid off in the end Poster. Otherwise I can imagine the huge stink you would've raised. Love reading your opinions!

Evil Penivel
07-23-05, 21:27
i've been reading the reports on gift giving since doctor evil reported on the chocolate penis and teddy bears. if you buy an expensive gift too early, a thai lady will think you are an idiot and properly label you as a buffalo.thanks for titling me doctor, but i'm just evil penivel. but uou raise an important point. i was discussing inexpensive gifts that can be given to tgs in the p4p context. gift-giving in a committed relationship comes under a different set of rules. what i've found is that an inexpensive gift, like chocolates, a miniature teddy or even a vegetable peeler(!) makes you more attractive as a customer in the girls' eyes. if you can establish a little extra rapport with a bg, she'll give you better service than the guy who jsut throws baht at her. i well know cash is king, without it ain't nothing gonna happen, but sometimes a creative inexpensive gift makes the difference between a good session and a fantastic one.

JuiceSpike
07-24-05, 14:44
Do Thai girls like flowers?

juice

Freeler
07-24-05, 15:03
Juice,

Sure they do.
Then again, some Thai girls have built in selfwatering flowers...

1Ball
07-24-05, 15:27
OH, MY, GOD.

Freeler, you actually fucked that , didn't you.

ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISCUSTING.

I don't know how you do it, but more power to you.

:rolleyes:

MeatMan
07-24-05, 16:35
Good Shot Freeler...From the girl that is!;)

Evil Penivel
07-24-05, 19:54
Do Thai girls like flowers?

juiceThat's a tough question. TGs certainly don't dislike flowers, but to most TGs flowers don't carry the emotional and romantic impact that they do in N. America or Europe. TGs, especially BGs, prefer something that 1) doesn't have to be thrown away after three-four days; or 2) they can eat it. In Thailand, native flowers are very cheap - i.e., the girls can afford to buy them themselves if they want flowers - and Western -style bouquets, type roses, just don't do anything for most of the girls. Please note, I'm talking about P4P situations. Thai GFs, wives, university students not involved in P4P, etc. may have an entirely different take.

PosterLion
08-01-05, 01:39
the u.s. gdp came in at 3.4% for the month of june while the price of every imaginable asset class is soaring to unprecedented levels. i am sitting in my cousins recently appraised house in the valley of the sun (phoenix, az) marveling that her (little hut) might be worth $600,000. but i digress, considering that id cards, cluster-fucks, and flowers are the subject of the day.

flowers are such a lovely thing and i am happy to report that 50% of the thai women i know love them. the odd thing about my experience with thai women and flowers is that my non-p4p thai girlfriend does not particularly like flowers as a gift while my (current) p4p thai girlfriend loves to receive flowers as a gift. in fact, our first meeting occurred because of an innocent rose.

once upon a time, a long time ago, i was hitting on the ladies in the nana parking lot at 2am, when i happened upon a little lovely standing all alone. she was holding a rose to her face and looking ever so demure. it was a beautiful sight and i had no choice but to inquire if she might be free to retire with me to my apartment.

she replied in a swift and forthright manner that she was in fact busy, “i have a customer already”, at which point she nodded at the flower as proof that she was not without a meal ticket. i decided to persuade her otherwise as she had that diamond-in-the-rough-look that has been described by some of the more pursuit oriented mongers on this board. just as i thought i was winning her over a giant hooligan of a man descended upon us. it was quite apparent that the little lass did indeed have a meal ticket and more, as her meal was peering at me with vehemence. it was quite obvious he felt a need to defend his ladies’ honor and preserve his status of boyfriend-for-a-night.

deftly, i sidestepped the issue by raising my hand and hailing the newlyweds a taxi. the young lass turned to me and smiled. then she gave me her rose and got inside the cab with her new found love. i watched the taxi drive away while wishing peace and good luck to them both. in the meantime, i had my own luck to consider. were there any girls left on the lot worth a go? as it turns out, there was a girl left and that girl is my present girlfriend.

she was sitting on a stool in the beer bar that is part of the nana hotel. i had just entered the place in search of a beer and a place to sit so that i could look for a new lady in comfort. as i walked past her she noticed the rose i was carrying. “can i have your flower?” i gave a her the once over and decided that she might do.

“sure.” i handed her the flower and she smiled.

“where did you get it?”

“from a girl that left with another guy?”

“oh.”

without going into further detail about the first and subsequent rendevous with my present girlfriend, nor mentioning the many other stories i could tell you concerning the things that we did before hooking up, i will simply state that this girl loves to receive flowers.

every time i give my girlfriend a flower she is delighted. she fills up a glass or a beer bottle with water and places the flower on display in our apartment. after a few days she hangs the flower upside down to dry and once it has dried she puts it in a bottle reserved for dried flowers. this bottle has never filled up as my girlfriend and i fight like cats and dogs. whenever we have a fight, all the flowers, dried and/or otherwise, are torn to little bits and tossed off the balcony by my girl. oh the memories.

===

now might be a good time to change the topic to that of the clusterfuck. what exactly is a clusterfuck? i turned the question over to my friend jeeves and got the following answer: clusterfuck ... noun clusterfuck (vulgar) a disastrously unsuccessful collaborative effort. the project looked good at the start, but the manager couldn't coordinate for shit and it ended up a complete clusterfuck.

i also got the definition for a mongolian clusterfuck for those that are interested. it is a cocktail made with equal parts of jägermeister, goldschlager, and rumplemintz. the instructions for making it are as follows: build it in a shot glass and shoot! sounds refreshing. maybe i’ll try one sometime.

i don’t believe the current ****/id card argument that is going on in the thai section of isg qualifies as a clusterfuck because 1) it is most certainly not a collaborative effort, and 2) it is not refreshing. while i do feel sorry for the majority of those (me included) that must endure the inane arguments put forth by the three stooges (maybe it is two or five or six stooges, i’m not counting), i actually feel a higher degree of pity for the combatants themselves. do they actually know what they are fighting for? is there a higher purpose? do they believe that any of us (including them) will learn something from all of this? my heart goes out to them for they know not (and this is obvious) what they do.

they have mentioned (either directly or indirectly), a possible higher purpose for their discussions. they claim they are trying to save us from accidentally having sex with an **** woman. wow... i say we should inform the pope and recommend them all for immediate canonization.

===

personally, i almost never check a girls id card. maybe i’m an idiot, but i don’t really give a flying fuck either. there have been three occasions where i have looked at a woman’s id card in thailand. the first was that of my first girlfriend. i just wanted to see her picture. the third was that of my second girlfriend. she wanted me to see her picture, but i also checked the year of birth and that is how i discovered that she is 29. i was a little shocked at first because i thought she was not a day over 27. the second time i checked a girls id card was the one and only time i thought it impossible that the girl i was going to fuck was at least 18. and as it has been stated, she may have been younger because (oh my god) she might have been using someone else’s id card. big deal! it was consensual and i didn’t get caught: (posterlion 1 society 0).

it’s interesting too, at least now that i’ve taken the time to contemplate it, that two of the three id cards i’ve looked at in thailand belonged to a girlfriend. why it that? probably because i actually liked these girls. contrary to those charitable members of the 3f crowd, i don’t really feel the need to try to “help” the women i am bonking when it is p4p. if i accidentally pick up a girl that is ****, i am not going to give it much thought unless i end up in jail, but i doubt that to be very likely.

i am not one of those older guys that scours the earth for teenagers to pay money to for sex. and for good reason! if i am going to give a girl money for sex i want the girl to be a fucking expert. pun intended! my current girlfriend is 29 and has (or at least had) been fucking for money for 12 years. when i was paying her to fuck me i was doing so for good reason. she knows everything about man. why would i want to pay my hard earned money to a girl that doesn’t yet know the intricacies of an erect penis. it takes years of training for a girl to master a good technique! i’d just as soon let all you other guys pay for her education.

now for my final thought. if you really want to stay out of prison or you feel morally obligated to stay away from **** girls, you should consider getting yourself a girlfriend and shucking the 3f way of life. there is no safer way to avoid jail time and/or stds than that. case closed!

poster out.

(posterlion is a leading authority of the game of life and quickly becoming an expert at understanding and explaining the nuances of thai women).

Coma Boy
08-01-05, 02:36
Wise words Posterlion.

Have a Mongolian Clusterfuck on me!

Duniawala
08-01-05, 03:22
Poster

Ouch!! And you sold your house couple of years ago. Then again, who knew.

Yes, all girls love flowers, even TGs. Best is when you are in a beer bar e.g. on Soi 8 (Pattaya) and there are 6-7 BGs around. Along comes a little waif peddling flowers. For a few baht, you get some roses and give it to all the BGs. The little waif is happy and for a fleeting moment you are one helluva hansum man. (till the next sucker comes along). Ah, but that was indeed a glorious moment, however short it may have been.

Have a great Mongolian Clusterfuck on me. Me, I want to have a clusterfuck with 10 TGs. Unfortunately, the hotel desk clerk would only allow 2 at a time.

Anyone know where I can get all 10 of them up to my room at the same time? Closest I got was 4, after I told the clerk that 2 were for me and 2 for my friend next door.

A hearty end of july to all and have a great clusterfuck. :D :D :D

PosterLion
08-01-05, 03:40
Dear Sir Duni,

I think I was the last to know. :) :) :)

Joe Zop
08-01-05, 03:48
LOL, nice post PL, but I still believe "clusterfuck" is eminently apropos: a cluster bomb fucks up a wide area by kicking out a bunch of smaller bombs, doing damage every which way, and I think that perfectly describes the lifespan and progress of the "discussion" in question. Besides, an online forum is by definition a collaborative effort, as it only happens if there are multiple people posting and there has definitely been that happening in this discussion, even if the core group of ongoing players is small.

I obviously wasn't referring to the refreshing qualities of the ironically named drink, but I very much look forward to reading a report from you on the to the explosive properties of said mixture. :D

As far as flowers go, if they don't do anything for the woman in question, the only thing you lose is the flowers -- as with chocolate or any of the other gifts discussed, most women, even if the specific gift isn't to their taste, will appreciate the effort and the thought shown by the gift and reward you accordingly.

JuiceSpike
08-01-05, 20:34
Poster,

Nice one...

Now we know that BG like flowers but do they like dildos too? :p

juice

Little Wing
08-02-05, 11:18
Thanks again for the extensive discussions about gifts. I saw my Hong Kong TBG friend last week to and from Beijing. Of course, she particularly appreciated the specific gifts from my country (Jade pendant, calendar, etc), the money I gave her, and the fact that I paid for dinner for her and her BG friend (they're very convinced I have "nam jai").

I took along some chocolates so she could take something back to her friends. She doesn't personally like chocolate, but the friend who had dinner with us does (and was kidded about it by her Thai boyfriend).

I had little time to shop in Beijing, but she was delighted with the cheap panda key ring I picked up at the airport, and proudly attached it to the new handbag she had bought with the money I had given her a few days before.

These girls are well aware of the signicance of flowers to westerners and insisted we take some pictures in front of a display of roses.

I did take along a dildo, but cannot report on whether she likes it or not, since it proved superfluous under the circumstances :)

PosterLion
08-02-05, 16:04
The current girlfriend does. This I know! ;)

Sean_Double
08-02-05, 19:18
Yes Juice,
Thai girls like dildos. My TGF has 2; a vibrator and I think what is refered to as a "dong."
I think more TGs would have dildos if they were easier to buy, as it is its kind of hard to find them.
Cheers,
Sean

The Traveler
08-02-05, 20:12
Posterlion,

nice and honest post, like always.

Let's wait and see if our three Stooges (D.F.G.) will go on with their Djihad against those who do not live their NO ID NO GO and start to stalk you like they do with me. My guess, they won't. It's not the issue they are interested in, it's just a simple personal war as retaliation for an innocent joke that went out of control.

Regarding flowers : Most girls do like any kind of gift. It's not the object itself they appreciate but rather what you express by it : "I was thinking of you".

The Traveler
08-02-05, 20:22
Juice,

TG's seem to like dildos, only very few were shy first but then asked me if they might keep it for themselves. It's a great thing if you take 2 or 3 girls, so they might enjoy each other while you do them doggy style.

Some girls told me that they often aren't satisfied even though they might get fucked every day. Many guys don't seemed to know the meaning of "foreplay", get off too fast or just treat them as objects, command them to do this and to do that and killing the mood by doing so. So a dildo can be of great help back home. Take it easy guys, let it flow.

1Ball
08-02-05, 23:22
do TGs like dildos ?

Hmmmmmmmm, let me see.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14568

Coma Boy
08-04-05, 16:59
I was sat with a bunch of girls at Big Dogs the other day. They were playing a game where they would guess the nationality of Farang strolling by.

They assumed that most guys were English, often incorrectly, yet had some amusing stereotypical views on Italians and Americans.

Anyone with a ladyboy was automatically assumed to be Italian. When I asked about this they said that Italians are the main customers of ladyboys. One girl even told me she used to hang out with ladyboys and pretend to be a post-op as she wanted an Italian boyfriend.

Apparently every American in NEP will always have the word "USA", or the US flag somewhere on their clothing, and more often than not, white socks and/or a baseball cap.

Apparently Germans and Australians look like fat British guys, and anyone very drunk, aggressive or loud is British.

Now, I think about it, this all sounds fairly accurate.

JHolmesJr
08-05-05, 04:22
Seems like a bunch of cool chicks. Nice game too...thais generally have a great sense of humour. Unlike the one I met recently.

I was at the same place you mention and this one bird kept acting like she was gonna hook me up with anyone I want...no problem, you want lady I give you etc etc...till the point where I was quite annoyed. (Im a lot of things but shy ain't one of them.)

Without giving it much thought, I asked her, "Are you the mamasan here?" Fuuuuuuuuuuck! There was a moments silence followed by the other girls around her bursting into laughter and the darkening of her already dark face. She was rather pissed at being thought of as mamasan, probably bcos of the age theyre associated with etc.

Anyway, this biatch had absolutely no sense of humour about anything, I didnt turn my back on her the entire time after, for fear of the old beer bottle to the head trick they like to pull.

Duniawala
08-17-05, 14:19
I would say between zero on the low side and millions on the high side. Dowry is given or not, is based on the situation, understanding between the two parties and the willingness/ability to give.

JuiceSpike
08-17-05, 14:57
For a working girl: very close to zero sounds good as you will forever take care of her family...and her extended family which amounts to almost the entire village. And, you will never really be accepted but always expected to pay. It's like the ultimate long time deal for a working girl. It's about survival.

I'm assuming she is a bar girl. :D

Better yet, put a little work and charm and find a non working girl and your chances to make it work will improve considerably.

But why do guys fall for the bar girl type for marriage? Anybody knows?

juice

1Ball
08-17-05, 15:01
Juice, you ommited to mention, chances are when you meet the bar girl's family, she will be introducing to her "brother", who most probably is her husband, and is in on the scam of emptying your wallet :(

JuiceSpike
08-17-05, 15:14
Yeah, he will be the "older" brother... :D

I have talked to so many girls that had a farang sending them money and promising to marry her even though she was still working as a partimer... When the guy finally wakes up and stops thiking with his dick and realizes what she is up to he runs away as far away as possible. I think the worst thing to do to a uneducated girl is to raise her expectations then not deliver. It's better to fuck them, pay them and leave them alone for which they will like you and respect you... Jing.

juice

Old Thai Hand
08-17-05, 16:41
I highest I've heard of personally is 10 million baht, paid for a former Miss Thailand a couple of years ago. I'm sure that there are much higher dowries in the handful of major (old money) HiSo families. I'm sure Taksin's daughter, whenever she gets married will command a hefty price. (as an aside-Taksin is nouveau riche btw, so not all that accepted by the old money high-mucky-mucks. He's considered rather uncouth, actually).

The highest I've witnessed personally (saw the money stacked on the golden tray in the middle of the table) was 1,000,000 baht. Interesting ceremony at this level. The senior 'mae-bann' (maid) comes in all dressed to the nines and carefully wraps the money up in a gold silk cloth and spirtis it off somewhere, after everybody gets a good look at it. Then, the gold exchange takes place. First the earrings, then the knecklace, bracelet and finally the engagement ring. At the one I witnessed, (my buddy's engagement) the gold was set off with rubbies and diamonds. I asked him where he got the money for the gold since it most certainly was much more than a million additional baht in value. He told me that his GF's grandmother donated it so he wouldn't have to bear the burden of the cost. He also got the million cash back, which was good because 100,000 was loaned to him by me.

I figure, that in the long run, it's actually cheaper to marry into a middle class or above family because they don't need the money.

Over the course of whatever life you're doomed to with a BG, or other low-rent girl, you'll end up paying a lot more...and you won't get it back!

OTH

PosterLion
08-18-05, 18:36
Come on guys. Give me a break or a little slack or nothing at all, but stop jabbing me in the gut (and/or back) with the you're-dating-a-bar-girl knife. :)

I'll admit that dating a woman that has known nothing more than a bad family life for the first half of her life and fucking for money during the second half of her life has it's drawbacks, but it also has some nice advantages. (Joe Zop, are you listening? I remember one time when you expressed a desire to have a prostitute for a girlfriend).

My experience during the last six and a half months has proved, at least to me, that having a bar girl for a girlfriend can be a good thing. My experience (quite possibly atypical), has been a good one, meaning the good times have out-weighed the bad ones.

I don't have time to give a full report at this time I can give an off the cuff laundry list of the pros and cons. I do plan to write in much greater detail on this subject when I have the time, but at this moment my bar-girl-live-in-girlfriend is sitting on my bed in her nightgown kissing the teddy bear I bought for her in a highly suggestive manner and it's making me horny!

THE GOOD AND THE BAD (my personal experience)

THE GOOD:

1) the sex is about as perfect as it can get
2) she performs cleaning chores
3) she goes out and buys the necessities (with my money of course)
4) I've never paid her any form of salary
5) She is real because she understands that life is neither easy nor fair
6) she never steals anything (except one time, $40, not too serious)

THE BAD:

1) she lies all the time out of habit
2) she has substance abuse problems
3) she has a lot of loser friends that always seem to need money
4) she never believes anything I say
5) we have had many (and i mean many) disagreements (meaning fights)
6) she attempts to twist my heart in the well known bar girl fashion

I don't think the good things need explaining, so I'll dwell a short time on the bad stuff.

The substance abuse problems (note to reader: 90% of all bar girls have this problem) center around a substance that begins with a certain letter near the end of the alphabet and I'm not talking about dining at the Y.

Most of her lies are fully telegraphed (a boxing term) so it is not difficult to know when something below the table and/or belt is about to happen. This lead me to an understanding of why she never believes anything I tell her. P4P transactions involve a hell of a lot of lying from both parties involved in the transaction, so lying and not believing become habitual.

As far as the fighting and the heart twisting goes, I've yet to meet a woman P4P or non-P4P too good to forego playing these sort og games.

I've spent about (guessing of course, but I think quite accuarate) 5,000 Baht appeasing the loser friends in the course of 6 and 1/2 months. It is just something that must be done. Believe me, it is better to pay them to go away than to send them away angry and it's not that expensive.

As for the parents and sick buffalo fund, I've been very fortunate and have never paid a dime into this Thai form of charity. It pays to look for a Bar Girl that has alienated her parents to the point of no return. At least I think so.

Well fellas, I'm off to the shower to clean my body and purify my soul. After that I am going to experience (re-experience actually) some more of item 1 from the GOOD list.

later,
poster

The Traveler
08-18-05, 22:19
Juice,

I wonder how do you know how a bar-girl (or any P4P) will act when being married. Did you ever marry one ?
If not, it is just hear-say and the typical repetition of prejudices and stereotypes.

It is true that most girls want/have to take care of their parents and maybe younger brothers and sisters. But there is no such thing like an "extended family which amounts to almost the whole village".
And do you believe that you don't have to take care of the family if you marry a poor girl working in a regular business ? This is not an attribute dedicated to bar-girls.

It is also true that many guys will never really be accepted but expected to pay, but that largely depends on the guys.

Most farangs - like some of our fellow members - still have the western perspective and approach on things They also don't even try to learn the language and therefore will never be able to properly communicate, especially with their new family in law, never knowing what is really going on.

You say that you have talked to many girls that had farangs sending them money. So what ?
These girls were working and tried to get the most out of it as long as possible. They weren't married as you say, right ?
You say some guys promised them to marry but what do you believe how many have lied to them before ?
Most girls give a shit on promises, actions count, not words.

I also wonder how deep your "insight view" has been. You told us that you only do ST, don't talk Thai and I guess most girls don't talk english well enough to tell you their innermost feelings, besides the fact that Thais are quite introverted people. I doubt that they feel the need to tell you about their lifes and real feelings, you are a stranger who fucks them for money. PERIOD

Most girls are very honest persons and are happy if they could find a man who loves and takes care of them. The vast majority doesn't want to fuck around with total (often ugly) strangers, putting themselves at risk each night and will stop to do so as soon as there isn't the need for it anymore.

Sure there are scams out there but that doesn't mean that all P4P girls are like that or do you believe that all Thai girls fuck for money and every Brit is a hooligan ... ?

Taking care of the family isn't a scam but a basic necessity. If you would ever have lived in a village in Isaan with the family of such a girl you would know that. There is no such thing like social security for those people.

If the guys involved have some brain, setting up some rules and limits, they won't be ruined by that support. And do you really believe that a white/western girl is absolutely for free ? As soon as your wife depends on you, you got to pay, one way or the other.

You should also talk to guys who got divorced from a white girl. I guess we have a few in here who could tell you about. Compare that to someone who got divorced from a Thai, usually less trouble.


BTW, please read what you wrote and think about it :
"It's better to fuck them, pay them and leave them alone for which they will like you and respect you... Jing."

Do you really believe that any girl will LIKE and even RESPECT you, just because you fucked her and payed for it ?
Ridiculous !


And to answer your question why guys fall for the bar girl type for marriage.
They don't have a chance to get involved with non-P4P, as easy as that.
There are only very few people in here who do have the time and skills to get involved with a real regular. Many of the so called regulars are often part-timers.

The Traveler
08-18-05, 23:00
Smoke & Mirrors,

the lowest dowry I have witnessed was 20.000 baht cash plus one baht in gold. This was on a wedding in the Surin area. BTW, the husband had been quite young, around 19 or 20 as far as I remember and was the son of a farmer.

The highest dowry I have withnessed was 1 million baht cash, a house worth approx. 5.5 million, a brand new Mercedes Benz plus some jewelry.
That was over 10 years ago on the wedding of one of the sons of one of my friends. They are Indians (Sikhs) and Indians seem to like to spend huge amounts of money for a wedding. They rented out a whole hotel in BKK for all the guests (over 200) and the party.
I don't know if the cash was payed back and if the parents of the bride payed their share for the house and car. Wasn't interested and I believe that this is a personal matter, therefore I didn't ask.

JuiceSpike
08-19-05, 00:32
TT,

I believe that when it comes to P4P girls is best to fuck them (their job) and leave them alone, no bullshit and romance them unless you mean it and are willing to follow up. I don't think this is being prejudice at all. Maybe you had an emotional reaction to my post but that's another thing.

And yes I have had many conversations with working girls even when I take them ST. In many of those conversations the theme was the same: their hopes and dreams to find a "good heart" farang to take care of them. As it happens, most guys don't know what they are getting into and either don't follow up because they discover something negative about her or they realize that it would not work out. Of course it's about survival for the girls to hook up with a farang. And it is not about sharing deep feelings or secrets with me. Ask any girl in a bar what they dream about and they will tell you if they like you even in broken English. It's not about the language it's about your ability to connect with people. You do not need to be a psychologist either.

Why they like me and respect me? Because I don't bullshit them and they feel comfortable talking to me. They would not confide in me if they did not respect me or trust me. They feel that I will not play games and romance them to make myself feel better and give them the illusion that I like them more than just for sex.

I have say it before. If you really want to help one of these girls do not get romantically involved (unless you really mean it) but help them to get out of the biz with either finding them a different job or get an education to learn new skills which they can use for survival.

I did this once two years ago and she turned her life around. I made no demands for sex or anything else or got romantically involved with her. She became my friend. I gave her a small amount of money to make a change. She got a waitress job at a nice retaurant in BKK and quit fucking around. Her perseverance paid off and a year later she met a nice guy from New Zealand and she is now married and living with him. Why I did it? Because I liked her and believed her cause: she had a 2 year old son and did not want him to grow up with a mom who sold her body to support him. I'm not in contact with her anymore and on her last email (six months ago) had a picture of herself, her son and new husband with one word: "thanks"

What is really ridiculous is to present an unrealistic picture of love with P4P girls and to make an emotional appeal for their situation unless you are willing to do something realistic about it that does not raise false expectations or burns the girl's dreams.

juice

JuiceSpike
08-19-05, 00:53
Poster,

Nice list of the "good" and the "bad"... And you know what is your limit...

juice

Coma Boy
08-19-05, 03:18
...or do you believe that all Thai girls fuck for money and every Brit is a hooligan...?But, every Brit IS a hooligan.

Old Thai Hand
08-19-05, 06:46
Poster Lion et al

After reading PL's post and thinking more on this, he has a point in that with a BG, if you are savvy (i.e. been here long enough to have seen it all), you pretty much know what you are getting into. There should be no surprises. His assessment seems to me to be bang on and he seems to have a very clear and realistic view of his situation and what to expect.

This is not always the case with the regular Thai girl. Even with years of experience, I never totally know what to expect....except to expect the unexpected.

There are some universal truths, though in my experience, that may sound like over-generalizations, but which I have observed repeatedly enough in 8 years to be somewhat declarative about.

1. All TGs lie, whether HiSo or LoSo.

2. All TGs are, by nature suspicious and don't believe what you say because of point #1; i.e. they all think you have another girl(s)

3. All have a preoccupation with the material world

4. All have some weird family history, anomoly or problem which often has some monetary slant to it. The HiSo family weirdness is often darker and more insidious than the simple sick buffalo, my father's a drunk and our house needs a new roof that you get with BGs. Watch the movie Jan Dara to get a taste of what it used to be like and how it still is. Some of what I hear and see is straight out of a Tennessee Williams play: you know the type with the corrupt patriarchal father, the alcoholic mother sleeping with the chauffeur and the slutty daughter sleeping with everybody, including her brother, the servants and even the maids, and all the family members fighting over the family fortune. I could name a very well placed Thai family, who were my landlords (I lived in one of their many houses in Hua Hin) who fit this scenario to a T...but, I would be hunted down and killed for doing so. ;-) To see this in a watered down form, just watch your average Thai soap opera.

5. They use sex as a weapon because most are really good at it. My current Thai-Chinese Mid-HiSo GF (Psycho, manipulative and money-hungry... but I'm used to it by now) is a veritable nympho and uses it to her advantage. She has the face of an angel and a "body built for sin", and knows it, and a breathy, slightly little girl voice (Marilyn Monroe and Jennifer Tilly combined) that makes men rock hard when she speaks (she knows this, too and has commented on this fact). Her sexual proclivities are far more bent and "out there" than any P4P girl you'll meet because P4P girls are by nature, still up-country and old fashioned ("cherm" in Thai). Whereas, many regular urban TGs are more broad-minded and also not-so-secretly interested in the seemier side of life. Example - My GF wants me to bring home a BG, one that I don't know, to shag so she can watch and also shag as well ( she was a lesbian for 3 years, from 18-21 and I think still has strong leanings in that direction). As an aside, most regular TGs go through a lesbian phase, usually in their teens and you'll find many who lost their virginity to a girl first.

6. All have friends that work there way into your life, often in unpleasant ways. Money or something else costly often factors into this.

7. They just think differently than we do, far more than a western woman and often in very strange and bizarre ways that are too varied and numerous to discuss here. This leads to disagreements, fights, histrionics and hand-wringing (often by the hapless Farang, out of frustration and lack of comprehension).

Trying to understand them can be a full-time job and futile effort. I am at the moment giving up and surrendering to my dark sexual world with my crazy nympho. I will either burn up on re-entering the atmosphere, as too many heat-resistant tiles will have been pried loose or I will land, charred, but otherwise intact.
When the smoke clears, I may post again.

OTH

JuiceSpike
08-19-05, 14:22
Great post. You made some good points. You wrote: " Whereas, many regular urban TGs are more broad-minded and also not-so-secretly interested in the seemier side of life..." This is so true with many urban girls. They are more intellectually curious by the dark side of life and sex. The best girls to fuck.

If any one is interested how many regular girls think and see themselves check out Thailandfriends.com and look through their profiles.

As far as your comment about some women using sex to their advantage and as manipulation tool is nothing new but you are right it can be a very powerful weapon. The trick is to turn the tables around on them. Let them be at your disposal but you can't think with your dick to accomplish this. They know that most men think with their dicks. They don't think with their pussy they think with their heads on how to use their pussy to their advantage. Big difference. :p

It sounds like you have your hands full with your gf but she sounds like a lot of fun too...

juicer

Duniawala
08-19-05, 15:52
The highest dowry I have withnessed was 1 million baht cash, a house worth approx. 5.5 million, a brand new Mercedes Benz plus some jewelry.
That was over 10 years ago on the wedding of one of the sons of one of my friends. They are Indians (Sikhs) and Indians seem to like to spend huge amounts of money for a wedding. They rented out a whole hotel in BKK for all the guests (over 200) and the party.
I don't know if the cash was payed back and if the parents of the bride payed their share for the house and car. Wasn't interested and I believe that this is a personal matter, therefore I didn't ask.

TT, if this was an Indian wedding then the dowry is the other way around. The bride's family gives it to the groom.

Robeco
08-19-05, 19:19
i figure, that in the long run, it's actually cheaper to marry into a middle class or above family because they don't need the money.

over the course of whatever life you're doomed to with a bg, or other low-rent girl, you'll end up paying a lot more...and you won't get it back!

othoth i feel for you. hope you sort out your 'crisis' soon and come out unrep001hed.

i have benefited alot from the postings on the non-pros by you guys. my experimentation with the middle class tgs have introduced me to a whole new perspective. it is a step by step process to entrench into the thai social circle. i am learning everyday. keep up with the good posts guys! :)

The Traveler
08-19-05, 19:46
Duni,

yes I know, in India the bride (or better her family) has to pay the dowry.
To be honest I didn't understood much what was spoken because they spoke mostly Indian which I do not understand at all. The eldest uncle of the groom told the guests about the dowry, therefore I got the impression that the groom payed it. Maybe a mixture of indian and thai traditions because they are living in LOS for generations. I didn't pay much attention either, not my money and I guess that most of it was a long planned investment anyway. You know, it's all about keeping face, just a big show off.

You definitely know much more about indian ceremonies than I do.
So is it common practice that the guys drink like there is no tomorrow ? Those Sikhs poured down the alcohol like water, they would even beat any Scandinavian or Brit alcoholic I have ever seen.

The Traveler
08-19-05, 19:47
But, every Brit IS a hooligan.
Coma,

I will remind you about that next month :D

The Traveler
08-19-05, 20:20
Juice,



I believe that when it comes to P4P girls is best to fuck them (their job) and leave them alone, no bullshit and romance them unless you mean it and are willing to follow up.

Totally agree with that, but don't expect them to LIKE and RESPECT you for doing so.



I don't think this is being prejudice at all.

In your first post you indicated that every bar-girl will cheat their husbands and therefore is a hopeless thing. This is indeed a prejudice.



And yes I have had many conversations with working girls even when I take them ST. In many of those conversations the theme was the same: their hopes and dreams to find a "good heart" farang to take care of them. As it happens, most guys don't know what they are getting into and either don't follow up because they discover something negative about her or they realize that it would not work out. Of course it's about survival for the girls to hook up with a farang. And it is not about sharing deep feelings or secrets with me. Ask any girl in a bar what they dream about and they will tell you if they like you even in broken English. It's not about the language it's about your ability to connect with people. You do not need to be a psychologist either.

I agree with that too, but again, the ones you talked to weren't married, right ?
And it just confirms what I said, most girls will be happy to find someone who is willing to take care of them and their families.



Why they like me and respect me? Because I don't bullshit them and they feel comfortable talking to me.

I got no prob with that but it clearly differs from your first statement that she likes and respects you because you fucked her and paid for it.



They would not confide in me if they did not respect me or trust me. They feel that I will not play games and romance them to make myself feel better and give them the illusion that I like them more than just for sex.

You think they confide or trust you because they told you about their dreams ?
I call it small talk and maybe it is just part of the plan to find someone taking care of them. Who knows, maybe you are the one.
Try to lend a few thousand baht from them for example and you will see how much they trust you.



I have say it before. If you really want to help one of these girls do not get romantically involved (unless you really mean it) but help them to get out of the biz with either finding them a different job or get an education to learn new skills which they can use for survival.
I did this once two years ago and she turned her life around. I made no demands for sex or anything else or got romantically involved with her. She became my friend. I gave her a small amount of money to make a change. She got a waitress job at a nice retaurant in BKK and quit fucking around. Her perseverance paid off and a year later she met a nice guy from New Zealand and she is now married and living with him. Why I did it? Because I liked her and believed her cause: she had a 2 year old son and did not want him to grow up with a mom who sold her body to support him. I'm not in contact with her anymore and on her last email (six months ago) had a picture of herself, her son and new husband with one word: "thanks"
What is really ridiculous is to present an unrealistic picture of love with P4P girls and to make an emotional appeal for their situation unless you are willing to do something realistic about it that does not raise false expectations or burns the girl's dreams.

Don't you see that you are contradictory ?
In your first post you told us that marrying a bar-girl is a lost cause and now you confirm what I said and tell us what a good girl she is.
Furthermore you confirm my argument that it largely depends on the guys involved.


I oppose all prejudices of any kind. I only judge on a person by person basis.
If you compare your first post with the second one you will hopefully see the difference in your approach.
Your first post was nothing than just bashing bar-girls and those who dare to get involved with them.
Your second post was a much more mature and differentiated approach on that issue.

Congrats !

The Traveler
08-19-05, 20:37
OTH,

a lot of truth in your below post.

The way I handle those girls is to try to understand them to a certain point but if it gets too weird I tend to ignore them and just do my thing. They might resist in the first place but sooner or later follow your way. It's a question of who is being more willful.

I believe that men will never be able to totally understand women, especially Thai women. I think with my brain - and have to admit sometimes with my dick :) but did not regret it so far - but girls think with their heart and follow their emotions.

JuiceSpike
08-19-05, 22:03
The T,

I'm glad I passed your judgement day.

As a critic of my posts I would give a C+ (American system) since your critique is redundant with no new ideas to explore. You went around and around to finally agree with basically everything I said but you used a clever "critic" like approach to do it. Hence the C but with a (+) attached to it. Not bad since you do a lot Critique work around here and not much reporting your own experiences. Good use of "cut & paste technique."

When it comes to judging my opinion I would give you an F because there is nothing worst than judging without contributing something new with substance that speaks for yourself and not just judge others for the sake of it. This means that it is easy to judge other's opinions but hard to have your own that deals with the context at hand and that it's honest not just a PC approach or an emotional appeal.

When it come to effort I would give you A- because you took the time an effort to dissect my brain (:D) and you show dedication to doing that.

Overall, your critique was OK but had nothing new to contribute but I hope you feel better about yourself for doing it. Since this is a forum you are entitled to critique as much as you want. It would nice though to see your own experinces not just your opinion on other's experinces.

Do you have any after so many years fucking the farmer's daughters?

Will we see a bit of hypocrisy in your posts?

juicer

Duniawala
08-19-05, 22:55
Please do not start another flaming series. Please take it to some other thread or end it. As far as I am concerned you are both right and you both have big egos. Thank you both very much in advance.

BTW here are some spelling errors. Since English is not your first language.....

The word is "paid" not "payed".

The word is "Hypocrisy" not "hyprocasy"

-Duni

Duniawala
08-19-05, 23:00
Yes, Traveler there are quite a few Indians who can drink like a fish. Some of them grew up drinking the local hootch which is probably 200 proof so whiskey is like soft drinks to them.

But the majority don't drink as it is not acceptable in most middle class families. The poor drinks the hootch and rich drink the whiskeys. A bottle of JB (1 litre) costs about USD60 over there.

The Traveler
08-20-05, 08:26
Juice,

I don't know about your intentions but at least I am not into competition with anybody, there is no medal to win and therefore I do not care how you rate my "criticism".

I also don't see any "new ideas to explore" in your bashing of bar-girls and the guys who might fall in love with them.
What was the "new contribution" in it ?

You claim that I agreed with everything you said in your second post, so what ?
It clearly differs from your first post as already shown.

Furthermore I don't post just to disagree with you or anybody else, I post to express my opinion which is the result of my own experiences and the relationships of many of my close friends which I was able to watch.
You must have your own opinion to criticize one that differs from your own, otherwise there would be no difference. If you don't understand it I can't help you.

It's easy to see that your posts are contradicting, you took a 180° reversal of your viewpoint.
First you tell us that bar-girls are literally bad and a relationship with them is a lost cause.
Then you give us an example of a relationship with a bar-girl that worked out fine.
So you finally agreed with what I said by confirming that a relation with a bar-girl can work out fine.

I guess there is nothing more to say about it.


You should avoid to bring it to a personal level, I am not in class and you aren't my teacher. There is no need to try to ridicule someone just because you have a dissent with him. Focus on the subject - which was "relationships with bar-girls" and not the person who dares to differ.

I criticized your point of view, not you as a person. I also questioned the depth of your "insight view", knowing from your posts and personal conversations that you have only been in that "tourists bubbles" in LOS.

You talk a lot about TRUST and RESPECT, but that has to be earned and isn't given to a ST customer who just fucks them for some money. This alone shows me that you do in fact don't know much about these girls.

The Traveler
08-20-05, 08:36
Duni,

there won't be any flame war.
There was no personal attack from either side, it's just an exchange of opinions - besides that rating as I see it as an attempt to bring a personal note into the discussion which is always a technique of those who run out of arguments - and as we found out they do not differ much if expressed in detail rather than in captions and headlines.

BTW, thanks for hinting out to my typo ("payed" instead of "paid"). Even though english isn't my native tongue it is no excuse for such a mistake. I already corrected it but will live in shame from now on :(

Little Wing
08-20-05, 08:36
I'm not sure if this message really fits here, but you seem to be a sympathetic group (apart from the odd flame war :) and I need to talk to someone!

I detect a reasonable level of respect for women in most of the posts. At least, most of you at least think BGs have some feelings.

I spent almost an hour today on the phone with my Thai BG friend who works in Hong Kong (thank god for cheap phone international phone cards!).
She had a bad experience with a client last night and the txts she had sent this morning were really strung out, and unusually hard to follow "I sorry, U so good for me...".

I reassured her that whatever a clietn does or says to her it's him, not her, who is bad person. She must have been quite shaken up, because she kept whispering "thank you", which, as you know, is not the way Thai usually talk...

Man, things can suck sometimes. I thought this was something I could ask advice about, but I guess I just wanted to get it off my chest.

Little Wing.

JuiceSpike
08-20-05, 13:28
TT,

Where are the posts of all your "relationships experinces" with all the bar girls you have fucked that show your true understanding about them? Have you married one? How many times have you helped a bar girl turn her life around?

Why don't you post your experiences? Why don't you talk about your close friends (bar girls?) that apparently you fuck for money and have such deep understanding about them?

Post them and I will be happy to rate your understanding and "deep" insight about bar girls. Jing.

juicer

The Traveler
08-20-05, 20:53
Juice,

I am not into pissing at each other, therefore I won't respond on that level.

But to answer your question, yes I once (traditionally) married a singer from a cafe - a casual P4P if you want - and happily lived with her two and a half years.

I am also still married to a regular - have lived with her for almost ten years and being married to her for about five years but seperated now (my fault) - and as already mentioned many of my friends are married with Thai girls - P4P and regulars. I took many girls back to my homecountry and have virtually lived with Thais for the last 20yrs.

How many girls changed their life because of me ? I don't know, I am no Samaritan and not into statistics.
But I know that at least three of my long-term girl-friends quitted and started a regular job or private business and another one (no sex involved) stopped working at the bar and took a job at the office of one of my friends.

I have posted more than once about my experiences, just take the effort and read back. But I don't think that the forum is the right place to talk about my life in greater detail, it's personal and I want to keep it that way. Same counts for the lifes of my friends. If you want to read diaries and the like, search the net, there are many online diaries / blogs.

I don't need you to rate my experiences and understanding. It's not important to me and won't change a thing. I am visiting LOS for over 20yrs, have lived and worked there for over two years and had many relationships with Thai girls of all sort. I still do some business there, have some MidSo and HiSo Thai/Chinese/Indian friends and also speak Thai fluently as you know.

You on the other hand told us, that you are visiting LOS for about three years now (2-3 times a year) and have been to BKK, Pattaya and Koh Samui. Did I miss anything ?
Ever been upcountry or living with Thai families, any social contacts in LOS besides the P4P girls you pick at Beergarden ?

So what's your guess, who of us might know more about it ?
But again, I am not into competition and I guess that Old Thai Hand for example might have a much deeper insight into Thai society and culture than most of us, including me.

Anyway, the topic was "relationships with bar-girls" and not my private life. Don't try to change the topic again.

What's wrong with you ? Why can't you stand some criticism and discuss a matter without getting personal ? A different opinion isn't a personal attack.

I would rather be interested why your first statement "a relation with a bar-girl is a lost cause" turned into "I changed her life, she is a happily married bar-girl now".

BTW, what do we argue about ?
You already confirmed my point of view and conflicted with your own original statement.

The Traveler
08-20-05, 21:29
...
Man, things can suck sometimes. I thought this was something I could ask advice about, but I guess I just wanted to get it off my chest.
...
Little Wing,

correct, many of us believe that Thai girls - even P4P - are human beings and should be treated well. Only a few play the macho role in the forum and just a handful really believe in the crap they say about those girls.

BTW, I saw no question in your post so I guess you were just looking for relief :)

Little Wing
08-20-05, 22:01
Little Wing,

correct, many of us believe that Thai girls - even P4P - are human beings and should be treated well. Only a few play the macho role and just a handful really believe in the crap they say about those girls.

BTW, I saw no question in your post :)Thanks a lot for the reply Traveler. I didn't get round to asking a question but you gave me a good answer anyway :)

It's strange that this particular issue had not occured to me when I got a little more involved with the girl. That she sleeps with clients goes without saying. That someone abuses her is a whole other level. I guess this is another learning experience I could have done without.

JuiceSpike
08-20-05, 22:30
Traveler,

What relationships have you had with P4P girls beside fucking them? Where do you base your "experience" from? Have you ever had a "love" relationship with a bar girl? If so tells us about so we can learn form the expert. The only one that I know in this area is Poster who has a pretty good idea of what is like and what he is doing.

After fucking your way through Thailand for 20 years you want to sound like an expert yet you don't have one solid story that shows how much you care for the farmer's dauthers. Why not? Why not do something after you have fucked so many of them instead of preaching?

Is your business there helping these girls or just taking advantage of them?

You are no different than any sex tourist other than you have more years than most of us. You go there to fuck bar girls just like the rest of us. BTW, I have been going there for 3 years 4 times a year and not all has been for mongering and have met all kinds of people and life styles.

I never claimed to be an expert. All I have said is that a relationship with a bar girl is a bad idea for many reasons that I and many others have posted in here before. And it is better to fuck them and leave them alone. If you don't like this that's OK but before you start preaching ask yourself: what are you doing that's any different?

You like to argue and stick your nose on just about everything I post.

If you don't like my opinions you can go fuck yourself you arrogant piece of .... :D

juice

Domino
08-21-05, 02:17
juice spike: your original post on this was good and a little poignant. you should remember the following: 1. several posters are btks in the making; 2. many are losers and they need to compensate for their empty lives by being big guys here; 3. the ignore function works beautifully. just put kiddy boy on ignore and his posts vanishes. any pervert who thinks [CodeWord125] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125) a child is not [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) if it is not done in a brothel is not worth discussing with anyway.
sex wise, thai women are probably better than pinoys. and los/cap is much richer. if all you want is a cheap skank, stay in the thailand.
as regards the muslim families in sukumvit: i don't think posters here should be giving lectures on morality; these muslims are the wave of the future as they spend more in a wider variety of places than male mongers, who spend only on wine, women and young children in one particular case. despite differences between thai and middle eastern muslims, expect to see more of them and les mongers as time goes by.

Terry Terrier
08-21-05, 03:39
Juice and Traveler

If the personality clash is taken out of the equation, it's hard to see what you two are arguing about. Generalising about farang mongers and Thai working girls is silly, and best left to the likes of

'Sugar' John Domino

You appear to be having a good time in the Phils and, amazingly, seem to be making new friends. A good example of what a change of scenery can do for a tired, cynical old heart. Would you be so kind, in your current good spirits, as to spare us your poison in the Thai section? You have caused enough trouble as it is.

JuiceSpike
08-21-05, 04:43
Domino,

"1. several posters are BTKs in the making;" Very funny. I hope that's not me... :D

Terry,

TT is one annoying poster that can not let go of his compulsiviness to stick his nose for the sake of starting an argument.

For the sake of other poster I will do my best to ignore...

juice

Coma Boy
08-21-05, 04:56
For the sake of other poster I will do my best to ignore...

I guess there is nothing more to say about it.You two should just use the ignore function on each other. I've been using it and it really lightens the load of the forum.

Domino- what is a BTK?

PosterLion
08-21-05, 06:43
Hey All,

Lot's of good posts here in IMHO. I like to see reports that are pertinent to the subject matter of the thread. So fellas, let’s try to keep it that way. I know it ain’t easy because most of us have some extremely large ego’s, me included. And as for me included, I’ll just keep posting my personal life experience bullshit for those that are interested.

Just to let you know, I am writing a detailed report about my current girlfriend. It will include the beginning and the middle and the end, if and when the end happens. I have a feeling the end is near because me and my girl are talking about a second apartment for her. We are speaking about it under the guise that she can get away so that I can concentrate more on trading in the stock market and writing my book. This is giving her a tremendous amount of face because she is able to pretend that the new apartment is for my benefit. She is even going so far as to say that she won’t require me to pay the tab on her new apartment because she wants to show me that she can take care of herself. This statement basically means that she wants to start hooking again.

In actuality I sense that the both of us are a little bored being cooped up together in a matchbox sized flat 24 hours by seven days each week. Neither of us have a job, therefore there is no legitimate reason for either of us to be separated for an extended period of time. That being the case, whenever one of us wants to go out alone the other is left feeling jealous and/or suspicious. I’d say my girlfriend is the one that feels this the most and for good reason.

Every time I go out alone there is the temptation to have sex with a different girl and many times I have acted on that temptation. In fact, having sex with a different girl is usually the reason I want to go out alone. I’ve always been a playboy at heart and my girlfriend knows it. It is one of the underlying (although rarely mentioned) reasons that she wants her own place. If she doesn’t have to see me when I go out to get some strange then she doesn’t have to feel jealous and I don’t have to make up any lies. Fellas, as Old Thai Hand correctly stated, jealousy runs rampant in the Thai woman’s heart. It is unavoidable and it is an issue you will have to learn to deal with no matter what kind of Thai woman you decide to hook up with.

When my girlfriend wants to go out alone I feel crazy because I am more or less a selfish bastard. The first thing that goes through my mind is that she can ask to go out and it’s alright because she isn’t going to fuck around. This makes me jealous of her jealousy, even though I know she is right. Secondly, I wonder to myself why I have to give her money just so she can go out and have fun. I have to laugh at myself because it’s such an irony. You see, being from the West, I’ve never had a girlfriend that didn’t make her own money. Now that I’ve got one I feel jealous of her because I have to pay for everything. For all you guys that think you want a woman that relies on you for support, I say, “Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.”

Some random thoughts before closing this post:

Another advantage for having a girlfriend in Thailand is that you don’t have to look for a girl every time you want to have sex and/or companionship. I can’t speak for everyone living here, but I find trolling around for pussy extremely boring after two or three weeks because it is the same old game of cat and mouse every time. That said, relationships are also the same old cat and mouse game too. Therefore, whether you live in Thailand or Timbuktu, nobody can escape the “having a relationship vs being a playboy” issue. It’s always there and it’s always will be. One day you have to choose one or the other and if you don’t make that choice, time will do it for you.

I’d like to hear more personal experiences with Thai women from other posters. Telling your opinion is one thing, but an opinion is only an opinion and the reader can’t easily decide for themselves what they want to believe with no experience to back up the opinion. I don’t care if the experience is about a girlfriend or a short-time with a P4P. What I want to see on this board is something to back up what the writer is saying.

Suppose someone says that paying a girl for her time makes her like and respect you. That is all well and good, but I have to ask myself why does the writer believe it to be true. What happened during his P4P encounter that makes him believe the woman likes and respects him?

I’m not picking on anyone because I don’t like being picked on myself. I am merely stating something that I’d like to see more of on this board because it would make things more interesting for me. As you can see, I am exactly what I stated myself to be, a selfish bastard. :)

poster...

The Traveler
08-21-05, 08:03
If the personality clash is taken out of the equation, it's hard to see what you two are arguing about. Generalising about farang mongers and Thai working girls is silly, and best left to the likes of

'Sugar' John Domino

Terry,

that's just what I said.

"Sugar" ? Oh yes, he is a real sweetmouth. :D

The Traveler
08-21-05, 08:15
If you don't like my opinions you can go fuck yourself you arrogant piece of ....

Juice,

sad that you can't stick to the issue and always get personal if you run out of arguments.
Why is it so hard for you to just discuss something ?

There is no need to be angry about me that I pointed out to your contradicting posts, blame yourself for being self-contradictory, not me.

You asked me where my experiences come from, so I told you a bit about me. Now you call me arrogant for answering your question. Where is the sense in it ?

Your above statement disqualifies you for any further discussion regarding this issue.

So if it makes you happy, whatever you say, may it be.

The Traveler
08-21-05, 09:08
...
Suppose someone says that paying a girl for her time makes her like and respect you. That is all well and good, but I have to ask myself why does the writer believe it to be true. What happened during his P4P encounter that makes him believe the woman likes and respects him?
...

Poster,

wise words as usual.

Yes, this is the "Thai Women - Opinions & Advice" section and we finally had a discussion regarding that matter. It's just sad that some people aren't able to discuss in a reasonable way and don't stay on topic, they tend to be too emotional.

As you say, an opinion is just an opinion, nothing more or less. Someones point of view might be the result of being involved with Thais for many years and having made lots of good and bad experiences, others might have a much shorter history. But both opinions are legitimate when being seen in context with the education and skills of the poster and the experiences he had made.

I believe that every opinion usually has some truth in it. So if someone says that bar-girls are / aren't good wife material it might be true for some, but generalisations of all kind are silly as Terry said.


Why would anybody believe that a girl likes, trusts and respects him just because he fucked her and payed for it ?
I can only guess, maybe he wants to be liked, trusted and respected, maybe he is misinterpreting her behaviour as many do. A smile in LOS can have lots of meanings and isn't necessarily a sign of sympathy. Also telling him that she would like to have a farang BF or husband doesn't mean to have trust in him.

I my opinion trust has to be earned. Would you trust a person that hired you for an hour ? Not knowing anything about him, his character and intentions ? I wouldn't.
These girls have been lied and cheated by their customers countless times, so it is even harder to earn their trust than that of a regular. They aren't naive anymore and often have seen far more than their customers.

Respect has to be earned as well. Thais (should) respect their parents and the elderly, that's part of their culture and education. But their customers are just that, customers. Does a tailor respect his customers ? I guess not. They are just the source of his income and can easily be replaced by someone else.

A girl might like you after a ST for several reasons, may it be you treated her well, are handsome or payed good money, but it won't be more.

I wonder if the customer will trust and respect the girl after such a short time. Would he lend her several thousand baht or would he respect her like his teacher back in school ? If not, why does he believe that the girl will do so ?

I would also like to hear his reasons for his point of view but gave up hope on that.

JP2U
08-21-05, 10:49
...
Suppose someone says that paying a girl for her time makes her like and respect you. That is all well and good, but I have to ask myself why does the writer believe it to be true. What happened during his P4P encounter that makes him believe the woman likes and respects him?
...
I remember having copied this excerpt from the book Private Dancer which resonated with me (I think I copied it from PL's own post on this from the Living in Thailand thread):

"“A notable change in attitude occurs in those expatriates who spend a considerable length of time in Thailand and who incur long-term exposure to the bars and the prostitutes who work there. During the initial phase of contact, farangs are attracted to the girls, and during the first few months may attempt to form friendships with them. Many farangs initially take the view that the girls are forced into the life of prostitution and that given the opportunity would prefer to have a regular boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. The girls often give the impression that this is the case, but there is an ambiguity inherent in the nature of the bargirl-customer relationship that the farang often fails to appreciate, namely that to the Thai bargirl, love and money are not separate aims. The girl believes that money is an expression of love, and that love is an emotion bestowed towards those who offer support, support being more often than not, financial. The girl sees nothing incongruous about linking money and love, but the farang, observing the relationship from a Western perspective, believes that the two are mutually exclusive. One is loved for one's money, or for one's self. Newcomers to the bar scene tend to the belief that girls will in fact love them for themselves, and therefore try whenever they can to restrict the amount of money they give to the girl. No matter how much the girl is attracted to the man she will resent the reduction in financial support, seeing it as a lack of commitment. The girl might not express her disappointment verbally, but her actions will lead the man to realise that she is unhappy. He in turn will believe that she loves him only for his money, in which case he will try to test her by further reducing the amount of money he gives her. Such relationships always fall apart. After the farang has been through the cycle several times, he will begin to distrust all bargirls, labelling them as prostitutes who care only about money. They are unable to accept that the girls see nothing wrong in liking, or even loving, a man for himself and for his financial support, that to the girl such things are inextricably linked. The farang will stop searching out girls with whom he thinks he can build a loving relationship in keeping with his Western ideal, but instead makes do with individual sexual encounters, one-night stands if you like, with the sex paid for and no emotional attachment sought. Such farangs begin to see all women in Thailand as prostitutes, and eventually become resentful and scornful of Thais generally. Once they reach this stage, many farangs decide to leave the country, never to return.”

I think that holds a grain of truth, not only with TG's but likewise with Filipinas.

Domino
08-21-05, 14:18
Domino- what is a BTK?
This refers to the Bind-Torture-Kill serail killer recently jailed in the US. He used to masturbate over little girls after killing them. Check out the Moroccan photo survey thread too where new insights into Belguel are being aired. Moderation in everything.

JuiceSpike
08-21-05, 15:17
Correction: The BTK serial killer also killed a few adult women and I believe 2 men too... I saw a clip on tv of this mental loser talk during his sentencing in court. He not only talked weird but also blinked his eyes a lot. So if you find yourself talking to a guy blinking his eyes a lot you might be talking to a potential serial killer...:D

juicer

JuiceSpike
08-21-05, 15:34
Poster,

You are in a unique situation with your P4P girlfriend. You understand and deal with, for the better or worse, what you have going with her and where it might lead you. You are willing to jump into what most western guys would not be able to do as it takes a complete change or major adjustment of attitudes, values and a new way to live life as compared to a western way of doing things. Unlike the preacher you are straight and honest about your experience and have told us in detail what it really is like to be with a working girl.

When I say a girl “likes and respects me” I’m talking in the context of the transaction P4P being made: I pay her to fuck me and we both have an understanding of what that means. She likes me because I don’t pretend to romance her or pretend that she is my gf so I can get a better fuck. She respects me as a customer because I’m straight and I’m there to have a good time and not to bullshit about anything else. In my opinion this is what makes her feel comfortable that she is here to perform a service and not listen to a farang trying to fuck with her head. I pay them for the only purpose of gratifying my sex drive and nothing else. She is there to fuck me because that’s what she has chosen to do for money. If we like each other at that level that’s the perfect situation for me and I believe for her too.

This approach works for me and I believe it works for the girl too. I also believe that it makes her more comfortable in doing her biz. I also believe that it is because of this that some girls confide in me and talk openly about themselves. I have never said I “know” them deeply or that I even want to. When the girl knows that she is for a ST session and probably will never see me again she is more willing to open up and that’s what happens.

I have also found out that many of these girls are very lonely. They live in a world of fucking so many strangers that they don’t even know who or where they are sometimes. It is not secret many girls are vulnerable not just physically but mentally too and that given the chance to open up to a guy that has no other agendas other than fucking them they will take that opportunity to open up. It sounds corny but it is true.

I’m sure you and many others in here have experienced this. All you have to do is to let them talk and they will. That means doing the listening. I read somewhere a long time ago (in college) that someone did a social study with hookers and why many had a need to open up to clients as they looked for some kind of connection with the world, themselves and the many men they fucked.

As far as your situation goes I have always been curious if you are in love or just passing through her life. I’m not being critical of your situation but what do you look for and where do you want to take it, is there a future with her? I think a lot of newbies and the rest of us would benefit from your experience.

juicer

Domino
08-21-05, 16:06
Juice Spike:
1. I am careful who I spend my time with and I think I am generally ok at spotting psychos. We are not talking about Jean Valjean here but rather about the whacko in Crime and Punishment who said he wanted to go to America (before blowing his brains out). Or, staying in Russia, Nabukov.
2. Your Thai hooker post is quite good except for one thing: you use the singular case, instead of the plural. Word from Skank City is you usually double up. In your case, I think it is mostly stress relief and the hookers realize that and open up a little as there is no milage in not telling you their tale. Hookers are interesting, but only in moderation. The more I see of the hooking mothers, the more I admire them and their modest ambitions.
3. The Thai Women's section was good many moons ago when Zxelda used to set the pace. A healthy difference of opinion. But that is predicated on certain things.
4. I also thought your take on Private Dancer was refreshing.
5. Anyway, time for a hooker hook up.

Freeler
08-21-05, 17:30
Juice, Domino,

Just another bit of useless knowledge ;) ;),

Did you know that real righthanders wink lefteyed VV;)?

Duniawala
08-21-05, 18:15
A few observations


1. We are both *****s. The men who wants the lay and the women who give them. The only difference is that we pay and they earn.

2. We are both lonely. If the men were not why would they be running after the TGs. So many punters writing here how they can get away for a few hours away without their wives or girlfriends knowing. The TGs and BGs are also in the same situation. Who would befriend them in their profession other than their co-workers? And even then, they have to be on look out as they might lose their cash cow to them.

3. Some of us are looking for a better life trying to find a girl who will take care of them, cook for them, do the laundry etc. as well as give them some good sex at the end of the day. The girls are also looking for a better life and see the farangs as a way out.

4. We men (specially Westerners) get frustrated and bring about the trust issue. What trust issue? One knowingly gets in to the game and thinks like child when he feels that she has to give up her profession just because he is paying her money every month. For them it is like a job. Don’t we all try and maximize our earnings potential just in case we lose our jobs? So why blame them.

5. For them all men are a**holes. Look around you will see that 80-90% of them have babies at a very young age and then abandoned by their boyfriends/husbands as soon as the little ones pop out. So why would they trust you. You too, in many cases, are sneaking around your wives and girlfriends.

6. Quite a few of us have no respect for them and treat them like scums. And they expect respect in return. What a bunch of hypocrites.

7. Most of them have support families, as the men folk are usually lazy. The women on the other hand have maternal instincts to provide for the family. I don’t see anything wrong with that. However, some of these women are so jaded by their experiences, it is a job for them to make the stupid farangs to part with their money. And men who do not recognize these women deserve to be taken for a ride. These men think with their dicks, not with their heads.

8. The western view that women must love them for themselves only and not how much they make are in a fantasyland. To me every housewife is a legitimatized ***** to begin with. She trades the housewifely duties in return for room, board and some spending money.

So what’s the point of all these? Well most of you keep discussing the merits and demerits of the TG’s and BG’s life and one or the other fail to recognize some or all of the above and arguments ad nauseam about it. You want to be a man, take her out with respect, pay her the money and don’t be a ***** about it. If you really want to improve their lives take them out, marry her and respect their customs. It is your job to make her trust and respect you. However, as a realist it is not possible all the time only some of the time.

As for me I am a happily divorced man. Don’t have to sneak about, use double the money for movies, holidays etc. Come and go as I please. And when the urge strikes visit the Land of Smiles.

Little Wing
08-21-05, 22:16
... When I say a girl “likes and respects me” I’m talking in the context of the transaction P4P being made: I pay her to fuck me and we both have an understanding of what that means...I think this is an excellent summary/explanation of your point and of course doesn't just apply to TBGs. A girl I've seen a few times in my home country knows I'm just there for sex but she also knows that I know she's a human being (with two kids) and that I'll treat her with respect. She relaxes and gives at least a good impression of enjoying the time and we talk a little. In fact, it was nice to have someone totally non-judgemental who I could talk to about my upcoming trip to Hong Kong to visit my TBG friend (she wished me good luck and hoped I'd see her when I got back :)

Keeping it on P4P level doesn't necessarily mean it's sterile and heartless, just realistic.

Now if I could actually follow this advice with my HK TBG friend, perhaps things would be simpler.

Little Wing

The Traveler
08-21-05, 22:25
Duni,

so true.

Yes, we all are *****s and I also believe that men are the more wretched ones in this regard. We are willing to spend our hard earned money for a bit sex, something a P4P would rarely do.

I can only speak for myself, I am not lonely. I only monger because I get bored if I fuck a girl for an extended period of time. I need/want the drive of a new body next to me. Sex often isn't better than with your wive or girl friend, it's just the curiosity how it will be with another one. When I see a cute girl I want to fuck her but after I had her the curiosity is gone and I am not much interested in her anymore.

As for me, that's the reason why I am seperated now but we still love each other but rather like brother/sister, at least from my side.

Duniawala
08-22-05, 05:08
Traveler

My statement 2 should be rephrased as "most of us are lonely". As you said some of us get bored and new blood is needed. A typical Saggitarian trait.

Dinghy
08-22-05, 05:11
Duni - watch it - you will be sounding like the former "Z" person (albeit "tempered") if you don't watch it. (not that I don't think you are correct...)

Duniawala
08-22-05, 05:22
Thanks for the warning, Dinghy. Yes, I might go off the bend like the former "Z". I sincerely hope not. I am a very optimistic person and very liberal in my views on sex.

However, for whatever reasons, I have a soft heart for the other sex. I can tolerate women bashing for only so long and I am fed up with the degradation of the hand that feeds our needs.

Domino
08-22-05, 05:55
http://news.yahoo.com/s/chitribts/20050821/ts_chicagotrib/britainhassecondthoughtsaboutlongerpubhours
Interesting article. God, the skanks are welcome to them. Double A is deliberate.

PosterLion
08-22-05, 06:26
As far as your situation goes I have always been curious if you are in love or just passing through her life. I’m not being critical of your situation but what do you look for and where do you want to take it, is there a future with her? I think a lot of newbies and the rest of us would benefit from your experience.

I've been tempted to try and answer this question many times, but I have failed to truly know the answer whenever the question crawls through my mind.

My approach to P4P is much like yours in that I don't do anything other than offer the woman some money for her services. And like yourself, I find that many times I become the listener to their life stories. This is exactly what happened with my current girlfriend. In fact, I never pretended to like her and at one point told her I wanted to stop our P4P/client relationship because she began acting as if she wanted me for a boyfriend.

After cutting our business relationship I began going out with many different girls for one-nighters, but I'd see my not-yet-girlfriend on the street almost every time I went out trolling. She continued to solicit her services and I continued to turn down her offers, until one day...

One day, a little over six months ago, I picked up a girl and was headed to her hotel room with her. Yes you read correctly, her hotel room. Many of the girls working Soi 4 live nearby in cheap hotels and use them as a short time room at night and as a place to live during the day. You'd be surprised how many girls use this approach. My current girlfriend has used this system for the last five years. Many times the hotel room is paid for by more than one girl and they organize time slots for bringing Johns to the room. Many times this organization is done impromtu via the ever important business tool called the "hand phone."

Again I digress, so back to the story. When we got to her hotel room. My current (yet at the time not-yet) girlfriend was still in the room, due to the inefficiency of impromtu organization and other unknown variables.

I was delighted and had secretly hoped this would be the case as I had known about this room for some time. I happened to have a rose in my hand because I had felt sorry for one of the flower seller's and purchased one earlier that night. If you recall my previous posts you may remember that the rose had some significance in the overall story between me and my girl.

When I saw her in the room I said hello and gave her the flower. Afterwards I told her she could come stay with me for three days if she wanted and we'd see how things went from there. She agreed. That was on February 2nd. I'm not quite sure how the original girl I agreed to go to the room with felt about all this, but needless to say, what has been done has been done.

After the three days had expired she (my not-yet-girlfriend) told me she wanted to stay with me until Valentine's Day because she didn't want to be alone on Valentine's Day. I agreed to her offer and now, some six months later, we are still together.

Now to try and answer the question about why I am dating a BG. I think the answer is a succession of answers or a list that represents my state of mind at the time versus how I feel right now.

Initially, when I asked her to stay for three days, I think it was nothing more than a curiosity. I wanted to know how life with a BG might be.

After she asked me to stay until Valentine's day, curiosity had moved to a level more fittingly labeled intrigue.

After about a month, intrigue had turned into challenge, because we were having huge (and I mean HUGE) fights during this time. I kicked her out of my room on a weekly basis. She'd always be back before 24 hours had clicked by. I'd say at this time my main motive was that I wanted to win.

You must be careful when you want to win something because low and behold, you just might win. And win I did! Now when we have a fight it is usually I that goes looking for her. LOL! :)

So... Am I in love with this girl or is she just passing through my life? The answer to both questions is certainly and most definately yes. Everyone that you spend time with is passing through your life, whether you know it or not. If you can love someone during this so called passing, life is better than it would be if there was no love. Am I a good man? Do we have a future together?

I will not try to answer the first question because it really is not up to me to answer. It is up to those that have known me to answer. I sometimes think that my girlfriend and I can have a long future together, but I can not tell you or her or anyone how long that might be. Only time will tell. One thing is certain, there will always be some form of "Crime and Punishment."

Speaking of "Crime and Punishment", here is a letter I received not so long ago from a Romanian girl I know. Yes, I've been around the world wooing and bonking girls and I've left my mark, for better or for worse, in many countries. In this letter she is referring to my writing. I've spent a lot of time writing little trinkets or tidbits and sending them to girls around the globe. It has had its rewards.

===

Dear Poster,

I was wondering the other day (after reading your poem "The Perfect
Love") if that really happened to you or it was just a metaphoric message
you wanted to send to people who can actually do that - both to love a
woman and to sleep with prostitutes. Actually, I always wonder if the man
in your poems is you or someone you know.. or some character you've just
created in order to have someone to torture in your poems. I always liked
to imagine that it was you. Somehow it reminded me of Dostoyevsky's
Raskolnikov struggling between solitude and human compassion, between
good and evil on the long path between crime and punishment.. which in
fact is more or less everyone's struggle. Each one of us has been
fighting the demons, each one of us knows what evil means, no matter how
much we'd like to be seen as "decent" people who "would never do those
outrageous things". Some people though have the courage to talk about
those things. To write about them and to make their fears and struggles
public. With poetry. I can only admire those people, I could never judge
them because I'm weaker than they are.
The fact is, people just don't want to be reminded of that dark side.
They're being bothered by your poems because those poems remind them too
much of life in itself. The glass cage they live in might get broken and
then.. oh my.. how will they face reality without the protection of false
principles?
Nevertheless they read the poems since they know what's all about. And
that should be enough for you to never feel bad about what you write.
I've been reading beautiful poems that brought tears in my eyes and lines
that eventually became life slogans for me and I've been reading poems
which instantly propelled me into a dark, evil state of mind and spirit
for days. In both cases, the experience was amazing and I thank you for
that. The simple fact that you manage to play with my moods and to make
me feel both great and miserable makes me keep my ritual of reading
Poster's poems by the end of the day. Period.

Take care and keep writting.
Magda

===

I have to apologize for the letter. My ego is overflowing! :)

poster out...

JuiceSpike
08-22-05, 14:27
Poster,

You are right, winning has a price. As you say, it does not take much for a girl to start talking and open up as long you are willing to listen. There is a lot of truth in Magda's letter. I appreciate your honesty and wish you the best. Good luck!

juicer

JuiceSpike
08-22-05, 14:44
Duni,

Nice post but it left me wondering about a few things:

1. When you say that "some of us" are looking for a girl to cook, do the laundry and have sex at the end of the day... are you implying that you are looking for a maid? Is she good for anything else other than the house chores and spreading her legs? Would you put her on a salary?

2. "To me every housewife is a legitimatized ***** to begin with. She trades the housewifely duties in return for room, board and some spending money." Do you mean a fulltime w.h.o.r.e?

Please clarify becuse from reading on the surface you would really be degrading women unless you mean something else...

juice

Freeler
08-22-05, 15:44
D,

Are just the Thai men lazy or would you say that that goes for all Asian men?

I won't go into the rest of your generalizations.

Duniawala
08-22-05, 16:12
Duni,

Nice post but it left me wondering about a few things:

1. When you say that "some of us" are looking for a girl to cook, do the laundry and have sex at the end of the day... are you implying that you are looking for a maid? Is she good for anything else other than the house chores and spreading her legs? Would you put her on a salary?

2. "To me every housewife is a legitimatized ***** to begin with. She trades the housewifely duties in return for room, board and some spending money." Do you mean a fulltime w.h.o.r.e?

Please clarify becuse from reading on the surface you would really be degrading women unless you mean something else...

juice

1. Most men in general are looking for a maid in their wife. This is based on my observation of Asian, Oriental, Middle Eastern, African and to some extent the Westerner/Europian. Asian men in general are the most lazy when sharing workloads. I hate to say this, but in Muslim cultures it is their religion which makes it so. It is most prevalent in the more illiterate and underdeveloped areas, but even in highly developed areas like Japan, the cultural influences dominate.

But is it cultural or deep rooted human trait which makes it so? I am not sure. What I do see that when these couples (irrespective of the areas they come from) emigrate to a western society like the US, Canada, and developed areas of Europe, they change. And to those who resist the changes invariably end up divorced, as the wife gets wise about being exploited.

2. Exactly. Give me good arguments against it and I will re-consider. Please note, I said "housewife" meaning they do not have an outside job.

JuiceSpike
08-22-05, 23:36
Duni,

Interesting point of view. I was raised in the west and I have never thought as my wife being my maid. When I was a kid my family hired a maid, she did the work for a salary but I did not get to bonk her either because it was not part of her job description... :D

I'm aware of various cultures and how they view and treat women but I was not aware that (in general) men in those cultures labeled their wives as "maid" except for the occassional drunk useless and lazy asshole. I would not consider my wife my maid but that could just be my opinion or a cultural thing. I think in a marriage or serious relationship there is more than coocking, laundry, etc., things like companionship and caring for example. Don't you think that if you treat your wife as a maid she would someday wonder about being in a job and not in a relationship?

As far a your housewife definition (the one not working outside the house) is a w.h.o.r.e I can only chuckle because that sounds a little narrowed minded and harsh to label her as such just because she does not work outside the house. Maybe your definition of w.h.o.r.e is different than mine.

Anyway Thailand has lots of "maids" and w.h.o.r.e.s looking for work.

And finally, from a western point of view don't you think that your attitude about women is degrading?

Did I miss something?

juice

Duniawala
08-23-05, 01:49
And finally, from a western point of view don't you think that your attitude about women is degrading?
juice

No, not at all because what I said was a generalized view of men. Not mine. My diatribe was because quite a few posts here are degrading towards the Thai (and other) women for what they do. What I wanted to point out was that these mongerers are no better and in some cases worse.

For example:
1. Got a freebie - In my view you are a thief when you don't pay for the services. (I am not talking a GF issue here)

2. Bargained the price down to ... - Fine, but if you are used to the western rates what is a few extra baht. I mean not to pay more than the going rate is fine, but when someone takes advantage of a desperate woman's situation, it isn't kosher.

3. Women being referred to as a cum bucket. etc. etc.

I have spent more than half my life in the West, and the other half in the East. In my view, a woman is a 'gods' gift to men. If I have said somehow that I degrade women, you did miss something. Marriage, in my opinion, is a religious a way of controlling women (and men). Tell me how many religions were started by women. Companionship etc. can be had without getting married.

Women in the trade are offering a service. It is a commodity which we buy for our pleasures and enjoyment. I am just appalled by the way they are regarded by some of the punters. I do not take pleasures in reading or harboring such views.

I can go on and on, but this is not the forum here. We can discuss these and other views over a beer when I am next in LOS, if you are inclined. Or you can PM me.

Have a great day of fun. :D

Domino
08-23-05, 02:49
Many rich people in poor countries have maids hanging out their ears. They end up despising people. Thai men or Filipinos etc are not lazy. But the poorer ones often do not see the point of working when jobs are almost impossible to find and the pay sucks. Despair gets them drinking and gambling and making young gfs pregnant instead. People, real people, are the same world wide; opportunities are not.

JuiceSpike
08-23-05, 14:37
Duni,

I don't think I missed anything. We just see the world differently...

juice

Duniawala
08-23-05, 17:32
Juice

That's OK. We are all different.

Peace

English Dan
08-28-05, 20:09
Hi Gang,

I am looking for a thoughtful, insightful and historically accurate response to my question. I have heard from different people that Thai women were bred to service their men (boyfriends or whoever). It is almost as if girls were viewed as a commodity. I of course do not like generalizations because they are never 100 percent true but does anyone have any information that these comments are at least broadly true historically. If this is true - what is the chance of marrying a thai girl who will be monogamous and faithful?

Thanks

Hank Stram

Old Thai Hand
08-29-05, 11:22
Hank

God! What a concept? Who are these "people" who gave you this information? I think morons might be a good adjective.

Perhaps, 500 year ago in the old Ayutthya kingdom, women were viewed as a commodity and "bred" (I love that word...you mean like Stepford wives?) to "service" their men. It may even be argued that even today, some Thai men view a certain class of women this way (massage parlour girls for example).

I was thinking I should go ask my boss, a Thai woman with a PHd, if her parents had bred her to service a man.

Your question about monogamy depends on the girl, just like anywhere else.

The Traveler
08-30-05, 09:38
Hank,

if you look back on Thai history you will see that women sometimes played an important role. Thai women even fought in wars and engaged in battle in historical times. That doesn't sound to me as being bred to service their men.

Many women run families, not their husbands. They bring back the money which they earn with their food stalls or being street vendors of any kind besides other businesses.

I guess many Thai/Farang marriages fail due to the fact that many men do have wroing expectations, just like the ones you mentioned. Thai women are strong characters - at least the ones I know - and do know what the want. They are willing to take good care of their boyfriend/husband, often more than a western woman, but only if they want to. It's a question of affection.

What is the chance of marrying a thai girl who will be monogamous and faithful?
It's as good or bad as with any other girl. But beware, if you intend to build up a relationship with a P4P girl you have to take her with you. If you let her stay behind when you go back home she most likely won't stop doing her business. You have to understand that many men have lied to her in the past and she wants to see concrete action before giving up the major income of her family.

JuiceSpike
08-30-05, 14:37
If you are looking for a servicing/maid like woman in Thailand you better be looking for uneducated and very poor type to satisfify your needs and even then you might be surprised to find out that women in the world today even when very poor are independent... If you are looking for just sexual services then lots of different types of women are available in Thailand. They love to fuck foreigners. For money of course.

juicer

PosterLion
08-31-05, 08:57
Independent Service Providers are ubiquitous in Thailand and are sometimes known as Freelancers, while at other times they are known as good girls that carry a PHD. But at the bottom of it all, no matter what label or stigma we give these ladies, at the bottom of it they desire independence. At the same time they also want to have love, just like every other woman in this world, they want to have their cake and eat it too.

In fact, their desires are no different than our own. Don't we men want the very same thing? While it may be true that the 3F crowd doesn't care about love, you can see from their mantra that they desire their independence. Find them and fuck them and forget them is their creed and the very definition of their style of independence. By the way and just for the record, I don’t have a deeply ingrained dislike for the 3F crowd. I follow their mantra when I am cheating on my girl.

As OTH and TT and Juicy have correctly stated, Thai ladies try for and obtain the very same independence we already have. Hmmm, maybe they obtain more independence than we do because they aren't hindered by an independently minded cock trying to lead them around. :)

In a Thai family it is more often than not the lady that manages the money. If the lady does not directly manage the money it is her that decides who is to manage it. When you see a Thai lady paying the bill at a restaurant you can know that the man with her is her husband. This is Thai style and something I like to emulate. When I go out with my girlfriend I give her money before we go and let her pay the tab when it’s time to leave. When Thai people see this they are not as likely to think you are the girl’s customer.

Many of you may recall my old girlfriend that is now living with the man from Japan. He gives her all his money after he gets paid and she gives him an allowance. This is something I could not bring myself to do and possibly one of the reasons we didn’t work out. I don’t have a job and live from the dividends and interest and capital gains I earn from my nest egg and I’m not about to turn that pool of money over to somebody that doesn’t have a clue about managing a large sum of capital. However, I can and do play a game with my new girlfriend.

I give her money as I said above and let her pay for whatever needs to be paid for at the time. It could be for food or for beer or a movie or whatever. The amazing thing is this, the money goes much slower when it is in her pocket. When I keep the money she has no idea how fast she is spending, but when the money is in her pocket she knows how much she is spending and nobody likes to see all their money go too quickly. Anyway, I’m not sure if I am talking about a ladies independence anymore. Where was I?

Oh yeah! Independence. My girlfriend (my current one) as you all know comes from the world of P4P. She is very good at her work and she has never had too many problems with money because the money comes to her as easily as it goes. Although it is true that I let her go with a few customers after she moved in with me, after a couple of months she quit working all together.

Her world changed after she made that decision. Now she relies on my money alone and it has not been easy for her. She misses the hunt. She misses drinking whiskey with her friends on Soi 4 in preparation for the hunt. She misses having her own money to spend on whatever she wants with no questions asked. In a nutshell, she misses the independence she acquired as a lady of the night.


Maybe none of you guys will believe me on this but she also misses being able to spend her own money on me. When she was living with me but still going with customers she would spend the money she made from hooking on things for my happiness. It has been a little over four months since she quit selling her kitty cat and now I can tell she is not as happy as before. This is why I’ve agreed to let her go back to work. It is what she wants and it will make her feel better about herself. She tells me the first thing she wants to buy for me with her money is a 50 satang gold ring so that all her friends will know I am her husband. I won’t know if she is telling the truth about this matter until the ring is on my finger.

One thing I can tell you is that I hope she does buy the ring for me because I want to experience selling the gold my tilac gave me back to the gold shop for money. I won’t sell her gold unless she pisses me off for something I think is trivial, but when she does [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) me off (and I am sure she will) I will sell her gold as sure as a bear shits in the woods. She’s sold plenty of gold that was given to her from guys that actually loved her. Believe me when I tell you, she has broken many hearts. That is why I look forward to the day I sell her gold. She deserves a little heart ache of her own.

I consider this little lesson as my job and my job is that of giving back to people what they have given to others. As long as it doesn’t kill them I fully believe that I can make them a better person. This is a service that I enjoy providing to the world for the betterment of humanity and I am very good at my job. You can believe me on this because I never lie. Do you believe me? ;)

I got this idea from Private Dancer of course. I recommend this book highly as a useful tool for identifying things that you can do to your Thai girlfriend. :)

As for my parting thoughts, I want to stick a little jab to those in the 3F camp. Nothing too serious, only a little poke. Now that I think about it this jab is not only for the 3F crowd, it is for all mongers alike. Many times I hear people on this board complaining about paying too much to the ladies. They like to say that we set the price because (collectively speaking) we possess the money that the girls want to take off our hands. They believe the moral to their story is that those that pay too much cause prices to rise to a level that is higher than some mongers can afford to pay.

This sounds good on the surface, but in the deeper recesses of their psyche lies a truth that nobody likes to admit. The fact is that the real desire to keep prices low is the same desire that all the women I’ve been talking about have. And that my friends is the desire for independence! My advice to those that like to squawk about rising prices is to keep your dick in your pants and become a monk because it is only through total dependence that one finds independence. When you become fully independent in this way you can then smile and/or laugh at the rest of us that are not and never will be as independent as you. :)

My girlfriend is out buying beer now but she should be back soon. I’m going to clean a couple of glasses and see if I can get a piece of tail when she gets back. Tonight will be her first night back in the workforce. I’m wondering how well I’m going to take it and I’m wondering if she is going to end up fucking one of you guys too. However, no matter what happens, no matter how things go, you can count on me to keep you posted!

Poster out...

JuiceSpike
09-01-05, 14:55
Poster,

Great post. Thanks. I'm sure most of us would rather read than live your experiences.

I don't see 3Fs as a way of life but just as a practical way to operate. In your case you practice what it seems 2 types of 3Fs:

1. Find, fuck and forget
2. Find, fuck and forgive

#1 you use when cheating on your gf becuase it works for you and it's obviously practical. #2 is your current situation with your p4p gf and it works for you becuase it has to work for you.

Wondering if your gf is back to work because of her independent spirit to make her own money or becuase you don't want to give her money and she needs to make some...Which one do you think? Not that it matters too much but it makes a big difference on the dynamics of your relationship. Pimping her out? No, I'm not being a jerk just wondering...:)

Man, you are in such unique situation in which you have lots of understanding and endurance and forgiving... What a trip. Yeah, sell the gold (if you get any) and use it for some good 3Fs action. If you don't come out with a book out this one she gets the best of you... Maybe.

juicer

Member #2041
09-02-05, 06:29
That certainly beats the heck out of the 4 Fs that so many guys get tied into:

Find, Fuck, & Finance Forever

Seydlitz
09-02-05, 11:24
Hank

Your question about monogamy depends on the girl, just like anywhere else.

Well, it also depends on the man, quite a lot in fact. Thai women do not stand their man fooling around. Jealousy is a feeling not unknown to them. And there come the stories of cutting off your tender parts and feeding them to the ducks...

Seriously, Thai women are NOT sex slaves, nor free for all maids. Believing the contrary is sure recipe for disaster.

DJ Monger
09-03-05, 09:27
Hi all!

I'm a lurker who has posted a few (hopefully useful) reports here and there (indonesia and burma/myanmar) and am now looking for some input on an idea i have been contemplating for a while. it's a bit involved, so bear with me if you've got the time to read through all this.

I've been living in asia for 5 years now, and have no intentions of leaving. I'm getting older (arent we all), and the idea of getting married and settling down appeals to me more and more as time goes by. And not to a western woman (tried that once, doesn't seem to mix with the expat lifestyle I live) I'm in no particular hurry, it's just something I could see doing in a year or 3.

I'm living in Bali, so in a way it would make sense to look for a girl in Bali, right? I mean, I live here, I speak Indonesian, I meet girls here all the time, etc. However, there are 2 problems:

1) I've never in my life dated an Indonesian girl who was remotely faithful to me. This is including 5 different non-p4p girls (2 college students, 1 dancer, one singer, and one office girl, each for 3-6 months) I honestly think it's just this cultural, perhaps pacific islander, thing. They just dont see anything wrong with it - my Balinese / Indonesian friends seem to happily cheat on each other with hardly a guilty thought.

2) If you marry an Indonesian and own anything at all in Indonesia (car, house, studio, business) it would seem that the Indonesian partner gets it all in the case of an (all too probable) eventual separation.

On the other hand, my experiences with thai girls, both p2p and a few short dating experiences with "nice" girls, have been excedingly pleasant. And I imagine it would be a bit harder for a Thai national to get her hands on all my assets in Indonesia in the case of a separation. plus, and I'm really not being toungue-in-cheek here, I love home cooked thai food

Anyway I would definitly *not* be looking for a thai woman on the p4p scene. i was thinking of taking a 3 month break from bali, teaching english somewhere a bit off the beaten path, and cultivating a "proper" (for lack of a better word) relationship with someone I met along the process, be it student, collegue (sp?) or just someone I met well away from the mongering scene, and seeing how things developed from there. For what its worth, I'm not looking to take advantage of anyone here, just trying to creatively avoid the pitfalls of many of the long term relationships I see living here in Bali.

I've lived in asia long enough, doing what seemed to be crazy, impractical things to know that a)sometimes they're possible if you follow them through despite a few bumps in the road b)it probably wont turn out quite like I expected and...

c) A bit of practical advice from people with hands-on experience in asia is invaluable.

So, your thoughts? Am I crazy? Is this at all practical/doable? Or just a stupid fantasy? Could i actually come to thailand, work for a while, find mrs. right, marry her, and bring her to live in bali? i'm especially interested to hear from some of you old hands who have practical experiences dating non p4p girls, but of course input from anyone is welcome.


-Dj Monger


PS: If it makes any difference, I lived and worked in Thailand for 6 months a few years back, and speak a bit of Thai (rusty by now but it seems to come back after about a week back in LOS - I took weekly lessons most of the time I was here, I have no great talent for it though)