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MeatMan
02-12-06, 21:15
It never seizes to amaze me.:rolleyes:

Sean_Double
02-12-06, 21:50
Raw,

Well, as long as she has something of yours that you lent her, you might as well just go ahead and marry her.

Sean

JuiceSpike
02-12-06, 22:16
Raw,

Marry her and have a baby. Name the baby ATM.

juices

Terry Terrier
02-12-06, 23:19
Dear all,Just would like some advice

Who cares? You'll do what you wanna do, anyway. Up to you. Do you three F guys make this stuff up?

The Traveler
02-13-06, 00:21
Rawwy,

I guess as long as you bought her things of equal value as you would have paid for her services you have done your part of the deal.

Be polite and nice, tell her that you like her a lot and enjoy to be with her (don't talk about sex as many girls will feel being "used") but tell her that you don't want to marry her. She can't blame you, I assume that you never talked about marriage, didn't you. So just be honest and even if it might hurt her, you will be on the safe side.

Ignore the stupid replies of the below posters. I assume nobody was ever interested in them or they never developed any feelings for another person. Poor saps. Things like this may happen even (or especially) in non P4P relationships.

Lion Killer
02-13-06, 00:40
All right guys, I see there are allot of experienced Thai guys here. I am just looking for a difference between Thai and Filipina girls if there is one?

I am very experienced in Filipina woman, I have been to the Philippines many times. I have an ex Filipina wife and a half Filipina daughter. I have bought the new oxen, put dad through heart surgery, gave grandma new set of dentures. Just jocking, in other words I know the ropes of the asian culture, bar girls and country girls.

I have slept in 5 star hotels and have been on a mat on the floor with no electricity at the relatives squaters house.

My only question is do you Thai professionals feel there is a difference between the bullshit of the Filipina girls and the Thai girls.

The reason I ask is I am planning a dive trip, as Freeler knows to Patong, Phuket in July.

Keep it serious guy I am just asking, thanks.

Lk

Old Thai Hand
02-13-06, 04:45
Lion Killer

No difference.


Rawwy4

Always beware of any Thai girl (P4P or not) that falls in love with quickly and at the same time informs her family all about you. Although overly romantic, Thai girls who are really serious about love and marriage will take some time before they utter the "L" word and will refrain from mentioning you at all to their parents until the relationship is sufficiently serious and moving towards marriage. The fact that her mother speaks quite good English (highly unusual for upcountry) and knows all about you and how her daughter feels is extremely suspicious.

Follow Traveler's advice and tell her the truth and do it soon.

Freeler
02-13-06, 16:04
Lion Killer,

There is no difference except language and religion. Philippinas usually speak much better English and Thais are buddists, not catholics.
You may find Thai bargirl English interesting...

Borg Killa
02-13-06, 17:35
Dear all,

Just would like some advice on what I should do. I've read somewhere in here about the link of a Thai girl falling for a guy thinking that he's gonna take good care of her for life and the family expecting a big payout.

See, I think that's where my relationship with this girl is going. I meet her at a soappy massage. She was really fantastic and I could tell from then that she was really enjoying our time together.

I went back to her a few times, then after awhile, she's been staying over with me and not working at the massage anymore. Sex with her was really wild and she just gets so wet so fast, sometimes I can't control myself and relase my load.

I dont pay her per-say but I pay for her taxis(she working at a shopping complex) and her meals.

While our conversations, which is sometimes really difficult as she doesn't speaks good english(so taking the advice from here, she's probably not very experienced in the business - says only did 4 mths b4 meeting me), she mentioned that she would like me to go visit her family - parents in Issan. She even passed the phone to me with her parents on the other line.

When she did go back to her hometown, her mom spoke to me on the phone and I was quite surprised that she spoke quite good english(better than her daughter) and was telling me that her daugther was just talking bout me endlessly and says she loves me and all that.

Now that has scared the shit out of me. Thankfully, I've left BKK for awhile, so I'm not sure if that's how she really feels.

Was it wrong of me not to have paid her? Which might've lead her to think it's more of a relationship than fun? Oh yes, instead of paying her, I also bought her things which were about the same value as you would've paid her for her services(ok, for one night of her services, but she's been with me a few days. She keeps calling me to spend the night with me)

How do i break this to her? I don't want to hurt her feelings. Just not calling her is not an option right now as she has something of mine, which i lent her(i guess i shouldn't have).

Appreciate the advice and help. Thanxs guys!

Wy4Ahhh yet another bro that got hooked, best thing to do is be honest. Meet her for one last time. Ask for whatever you need back (hmmm wonder what that could be? ) and then be on your way.

Nothing is free. There is always a price for everything.

Borgkilla

Lion Killer
02-13-06, 23:44
Thanks guys, I know what to expect. I am just going short time, 2 weeks, but its nice to know what to expect when you get there. Have fun and may the force be with you.

LK

Terry Terrier
02-14-06, 00:40
Rawwy,

Only you can answer your own questions. Ignore the stupid replies from posters who think that, because they have spent a lot of time in LOS, fully understand your unique personal situation. Take a coupla steps back from all of this, give it a long cold stare, step back in, tune in to your instincts, and then make a decision.

And stop asking for advice on a forum full of degenerates like us :-)

Rawwy4
02-14-06, 05:08
And stop asking for advice on a forum full of degenerates like us :-)Thanks! I've gotta be honest, this is the first time, well second if you count the one I had in East M'sia, I'm faced with a situation like this. So, I thought someone here would've gone thru the same thing and would like to share their experience, etc.

The East M'sia gal got married to some shithead that mistreats her, so that ended on it's own. Sorta. She still calls me every now and then and I usually entertain her calls.

Freeler,

What's 3F method? Sorry, I'm new.

Traveller,

No, never mentioned marriage. I think. But I'm quite positive.

What's P4P also? Thanks.

The Traveler
02-14-06, 22:13
Rawwy,

3F = Find, Fuck, Forget

P4P = Pay for Play

Also take a look at "Abbrevations" first, which you will find at the top of this page or use this link

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1897

Coma Boy
02-15-06, 07:55
this teen is most likely too young to think too much about, but is a good example of the look favoured by kohn thai. most thai guys don't really care about the legal age of consent anyway.

in the first photo she looks surprisingly ordinary, but she scrubs up real good.

if only i was a rich thai ****.

Terry Terrier
02-15-06, 11:48
They're all trying their best to look like gawky Western teens. How very sad.

1Ball
02-15-06, 15:28
Coma, which one is she? I can't find the girl in the school uni, in the pic of the 5 girls. Looking at her teeth, it doesn't seem to match. Plus, most of them seem to have breasts, whereas the girl in the uni has smaller boobs than you do !

Coma Boy
02-15-06, 15:41
Coma, which one is she?1Ball, this one.

1Ball
02-15-06, 17:32
1Ball, this one.

u mean the one wearing the coat and tie ?

NoCBJ4Me
02-15-06, 20:49
Coma Boy - Shouldn't she be "Miss Teen Thailand 2548?" Cute, but she looks older in the photo "MissTeen 2005", from Post 2645, than the uniform picture. It's scary what make up can do. Be careful out there!

Traveler - I've always translated P4P as "Paid for Pussy" and love the 3F's- Find 'em -Fuck 'em and Forget 'em!

Who's in BKK next week? I'm flying in next Wednesday night (Feb 23rd). I haven't got a room yet, but it will be in the Sukhumvit area

Freeler
02-15-06, 22:21
Raw,

"Freeler, What's 3F method? Sorry, I'm new."

I knid of guessed you were new, but not that you didn't RTFF (please, don't ask what that means...).
3F means Find Fuck Forget.
It sounds harsh, but it's the best thing to do.
Pay, leave, don't look back.
Pay, make them leave, move to another place.

The Traveler
02-15-06, 22:24
NoCBJ4me,

yes, some make-up can change the age of a person dramatically, quite scary, but sadly we still have a few in here who deny it.

Have a look at the "Abbrevations" for P4P and 3F.
Anyway, I see no difference between your and my explanation.

Traveler1234 and me will be in BKK. We might hook up at the 25th if you like.

The Traveler
02-15-06, 22:26
u mean the one wearing the coat and tie ?
1ball,

I already guessed that you will like that one the most :)

1Ball
02-15-06, 23:45
1ball,

I already guessed that you will like that one the most :)

funny Trav, now you sound like Coma.
will be in BKK on the 9th or 10th of March. Will you still be there? I need you to show me how to use that program that locks things up, so no one can find it.

Coma Boy
02-16-06, 08:20
Funny Trav, now you sound like Coma.Must be hereditary. TT is my father.

1Ball
02-16-06, 10:34
Must be hereditary. TT is my father.

How can that be? TT is Firedick's girlfriend...........

The Traveler
02-16-06, 23:19
will be in BKK on the 9th or 10th of March. Will you still be there? I need you to show me how to use that program that locks things up, so no one can find it.
Hi 1ball,

yep, I will still be in LOS but probably won't be in BKK.
I intend to go upcountry, maybe around Isaan but most likely moving from Kanchanaburi up north via Mae Hong Son to Chiang Mai.

Anyway, PM me, maybe I can make it. If not, I will prepare a tutorial with screenshots.



How can that be? TT is Firedick's girlfriend...........
Why did you reveal our secret ?
Firedick wanted me to keep it secret.

Btw, we use a lot of lube. We aren't as tough as you and Coma.

Firedick
02-19-06, 00:13
OK, where did all of this crap start ? I have to assume it's just petty jealousy. 1ball in the grips of dealing with being an old, fat, bald guy seems to be lashing out at those of us who take care of our bodies and HAVE hair.

TT my girlfriend ? He's way too tall for me and I'm way too old for him ! (Sorry TT, I had too. Just a joke). Plus, that whole penis thing is a turnoff.

1ball. Anything further on an RP trip ? I need as much lead time as possible to get a good price on Eva Air.

I guess I need to check in here from time to time just to defend myself. I just don't want to clutter the board with "chat". And having nothing to report recently...

Later guys,

FD

Freeler
02-19-06, 11:13
Firedick,

The only time I flew Eva, the plane was loaded with low-life, drunks and Slowaks.
Or perhaps the Slowak low-life were all drunk.
WTF.
I'd rather walk and swim than fly Eva again.

regards,
Freeler

Borg Killa
02-19-06, 16:11
this teen is most likely too young to think too much about, but is a good example of the look favoured by kohn thai. most thai guys don't really care about the legal age of consent anyway.

in the first photo she looks surprisingly ordinary, but she scrubs up real good.

if only i was a rich thai ****.give the young ladies another 3 or more years then they are fair game.

borgkilla

Firedick
02-20-06, 10:45
Freeler,

Answered in "general reports" thread.

FD

Retired Army
02-22-06, 03:40
Firedick,

The only time I flew Eva, the plane was loaded with low-life, drunks and Slowaks.
Or perhaps the Slowak low-life were all drunk.
WTF.
I'd rather walk and swim than fly Eva again.

regards,
Freeler

You get what you pay for. Next time spend a few extra $ and take Thai.

Freeler
02-22-06, 16:43
Retired Army,

I had to fly the fuck-ups because everything else was sold out.
My airline of choice is (and remains) China Airlines.

Retired Army
02-22-06, 20:57
Retired Army,

I had to fly the fuck-ups because everything else was sold out.
My airline of choice is (and remains) China Airlines.

Much better choice than EVA. In a lot of ways CA is better than Thai. I was usually able to get an upgrade on CA, but not on Thai. Just ensure you are a member of their frequent flier program. EVA targets the Long Haul discount flier. However, I have heard that their economy plus is pretty good.

Old Thai Hand
02-23-06, 02:37
When I go home, which is apparently the furthest point one can fly from BKK, approx. 20+ hours in the air, I have finally settled on Eva Economy Deluxe after having flown Thai, Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, Air Canada and Korean. It is comfortable with big seats, good food and service. Economy, I hear is as some have described, quite awful. So, for a little extra money, Economy Deluxe is almost like flying business class. I used to fly Eva to Vancouver where you have to switch to regular economy on Air Canada, arguably one of the worse airlines in the world. I now fly straight through on EVA to Newark and then fly the 1 hour on whatever is available to Toronto to get home.
If there is a downside it is dealing with the Taiwanese passengers on EVA, many of whom are often quite rude (especially the old ladies) and think the airplane is their bedroom at night: pyjamas, tai chi exercises before sleeping etc. which is quite annoying. Therefore, I always sit near the bulkhead at the front, which has a lot more room as the plane narrows towards the nose and therefore there are fewer seats and no Taiwanese grannies wandering around in their 'jammies'.

1Ball
02-23-06, 03:18
I only fly China airlines accross the Pacific. Value for money, they are the best.
I must agree on the locals on board. Worse than the tai chi, is the REALLY LOUD slurping of noodle soup. It is enough to turn your stomach.

Ozirob
02-23-06, 07:00
Couple of years ago I met and spent some time with a Thai girl in Singapore, from OT. So theres no doubt about what she does from time to time. She particularly suits my tatse, Great personality, body and pretty face. From that first experience with her, stayed in touch and lined up to be in Singapore several occasions since, each time for a few days. Last year visited Bangkok and spent 4 days with her during which time we ended up staying at her apartment. Does that happen usually? More recently lined up to meet in KL for a week. Just a magic time for me! Really GFE. (although i can't recall going through 20 condoms in 7 days with any GF before)

Keeping in contact over a longer period, and spending a full week in close quarters tends to show up any areas of potential problems but i haven't seen any yet!

Except that in spite of my cynical and practical instincts, i have the feeling she is becoming somewhat attached. I haven't pretended about my other commitments and priorities. She hasn't pretended about her activities. Money is never talked about, she never asks for anything, and i quietly leave a tip in her purse after time spent. So i'm walking around thinking all's fine and i know that in spite of the fact that i am really attracted to her, it's not true love in either direction.

However?


Ozirob

PS OK tell the truth i have the feeling i am becoming somewhat attached!

Bam Boii
03-16-06, 20:50
I'm hoping to get some advice from experienced spankers. I wonder if an average thai bargirl would accept that you spank her? Or should you inform her before you take her and ask if its okay? Maybe she would expect to get paid more for giving such a service.

Retired Army
03-16-06, 22:23
No new reports for three weeks? Doesn't anyone have any opinions or advice about Thai women?

Well, not to disappoint I will offer some:

1) they are great!

2) be careful because they will steal your heart and some of them will take even more if given the chance.

Retired Army
03-17-06, 21:54
I'm hoping to get some advice from experienced spankers. I wonder if an average thai bargirl would accept that you spank her? Or should you inform her before you take her and ask if its okay? Maybe she would expect to get paid more for giving such a service.

Better ask first and then tip accordingly.

I had this girl from the Huntsman's Pub once that just began slapping her own ass. I took the hint and took over. Send me a PM and I will give you her name.

Traveler1234
03-17-06, 22:45
I only fly China airlines accross the Pacific. Value for money, they are the best.
I must agree on the locals on board. Worse than the tai chi, is the REALLY LOUD slurping of noodle soup. It is enough to turn your stomach.

Couldn't believe this came from you?

You sound like Mike Douglas in the movie Black Rain....what's worse, slurping on some good noodles, or chewing tobacco and spitting in the pan....Or worse yet, good old suction from a BBBJ at 30,000 ft - LOL.

And recommending China airlines...it's about time for another one of their major safety gaffes (i.e. 'crash'). Stick to EVA deluxe, CX, or SQ.

1Ball
03-18-06, 00:35
Couldn't believe this came from you?

You sound like Mike Douglas in the movie Black Rain....what's worse, slurping on some good noodles, or chewing tobacco and spitting in the pan....Or worse yet, good old suction from a BBBJ at 30,000 ft - LOL.

And recommending China airlines...it's about time for another one of their major safety gaffes (i.e. 'crash'). Stick to EVA deluxe, CX, or SQ.
Did I write my original comment in this thread? I apologize. T1234, if you want to continue this, let's move over to travel. HOWEVER.... I was in transit in TPE 2 days after SQ6 crashed on October 31, 2000, and the runway was still a mess. So, yes CAL has had a couple of planes fall out of the sky, but so has SQ. So has AA, UA, Alaska, Air France. Should I go on? Dustin Hoffman only wanted to fly QF, as at the time of him saying it, it was the only major airline without a major crash. Long way to fly LAX SYD BKK, just for some TG pussy. Oh, BTW, TG has crashed too !
I pay 2700$ for a ticket BKK SFO BKK. Same ticket on SQ costs about 6.5K, and believe me China Airlines up front is fantastic. Flat beds, massaging seats, excellent configeration, good food and booze, down pillows and comforters, as I said, value for money, they are the best. Flew business class on EVA on a TPE BKK sector, fell asleep for about 90 minutes right after take off, when I woke up, asked for food, they said, sorry sir, meal service is over. Never again.
And SQ? I don't want to fly right over BKK to land at Changi, only to hop another plane North again, seems dumb to me.

PS. I don't like hearing slurping noodles, or spitting tobacco in a pan. I do, however like good old suction from a BBBJ at 30K feet. ( provided I am the one getting it. If not, I hate that more than the noodles and the tobacco! Got one from an off duty CAL FA while flying TPE BKK 2 years ago. the can all the way in the back of the 744 is large enough for a girl to sit on the toilet, while you bang away in her mouth) :D

never saw Black Rain. What did Douglas say that reminded you of this ?

see ya in the travel thread.

Retired Army
03-21-06, 23:31
Be careful guys, you never know who your girlfriend friends are.

I went to the Thereme one night and met this looker with a great rack. Being a tit man and not getting a lot of acting at home at the time I thought why not. Took her upstairs to the hotel over the Therme and booked a room for an ST. Got a BJ and went home to a really pissed-off Thai woman.

Guess what? The girl working behind the desk was a friend of my girlfriend and was on the phone to her before I got my pants off.

GF was pissed for a couple of days but eventually got over it and has never brought the subject up again. For my part I now go to places where I am sure it is safe. These include massage parlours on the other side of town and escort agencies. Can't go to the Soi Seven Bier Garten because I am too well known there.

Lion Killer
03-22-06, 00:53
On the subject of airlines, I have flown to the Philippines 8 times. I do stay with my milage partners, Northwest and Continental, flying there. Northwest is the only major US Airline partner I have that goes to BKK. Although AVA is a partner to Continental.

I am planning a summer trip to BKK, I guess my question is, whats the boards opinion on Northwest vs EVA.

Thanks

LK

Coma Boy
03-22-06, 05:03
Can't go to the Soi Seven Bier Garten because I am too well known there.Jeez, what sort of GF have you ended up with, that has friends at the Biergarten?

Perhaps not a keeper.

Dinghy
03-22-06, 05:32
Lion - what about Star Alliance carriers?

SidTheSexist
03-22-06, 10:20
Just read an interesting piece on another very well known thai column, about getting into your TG's mobile phone. This is my cheap and no frills way to finding out the truth about your "love"

You have read your tilac's phone book and theres an awful lot of western mens names in there or one in particular which seems suspicious?
Simply change his phone number in the directory to your own number, but leaving his name. This way, as soon as she sends him an SMS, it comes directly to your phone and you find out the easy, and cheap way. if she calls him (you) simply dont answer, but send an SMS back saying your busy, call tomorow. Then you know when she was calling the guy and whether this in itself is suspicious. Any sms you receive, you also have the opportunity to play by sending messages back to see exactly how she replies.

Its quite a risky tactic, but can be very effective.

Somebody has to try it, and post the response.

sid

Retired Army
03-22-06, 11:28
My GF is not a Bier Garten girl. She won't even go near there. Her shop is close to the Bier Garten and many of the girls are her customers. And they all know me from hanging out at the shop and around the Soi Seven area. The point of my post is to be careful because you don't know whom your girlfriend's friend are and they love nothing better than "dropping a dime" on you.

Old Thai Hand
03-22-06, 14:04
Just read an interesting piece on another very well known thai column, about getting into your TG's mobile phone. This is my cheap and no frills way to finding out the truth about your "love"

You have read your tilac's phone book and theres an awful lot of western mens names in there or one in particular which seems suspicious?
Simply change his phone number in the directory to your own number, but leaving his name. This way, as soon as she sends him an SMS, it comes directly to your phone and you find out the easy, and cheap way. if she calls him (you) simply dont answer, but send an SMS back saying your busy, call tomorow. Then you know when she was calling the guy and whether this in itself is suspicious. Any sms you receive, you also have the opportunity to play by sending messages back to see exactly how she replies.

Its quite a risky tactic, but can be very effective.

Somebody has to try it, and post the response.

sid


Maybe you should stop dating Bargirls and find yourself a nice, regular Thai girl that you can trust, so you don't have to play a childish game like this. If someone has to resort to doing this, then the girl is obviously not of the best quality and isn't worth keeping anyway. It seems a pretty scummy thing to do actually and doesn't say much for you either.

Skyway
03-22-06, 17:52
Old asia, do you realy believe we can find a Thai girl that we can trust! If so she will be after the money later.

Seydlitz
03-22-06, 18:35
The point of my post is to be careful because you don't know whom your girlfriend's friend are and they love nothing better than "dropping a dime" on you.

This is good advice. A couple of years ago my Thai GF was upcountry to attend her grandmother's funeral. I saw a window of opportunity to bring back to my hotel room a very hot NEP BG who gave me a very good time. I felt very smart and proud of myself.

Years later, in a conversation, my GF mentioned that the girl at the hotel's massage parlour had seen me coming home with a lady. Naturally I denied with the utmost energy and suggested that the poor masseuse might have seen my friend coming home with a lady. A valid explanation.

Nonetheless, you never know who might be watching you. And gossip is a national favorite pastime in LOS. Beware.

PosterLion
03-22-06, 21:51
Hey Retired Army,

I guess we have the same classification now. :) Anyway, I'll try to add some sort of something concerning Thai girls per your request. First, and I know you've read this already RA, but it sort of belongs in this section and the Thai section at the same time.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=443959&postcount=722

The above link began as a little retirement advice, but it soon turned in to a FAQ page concerning my recent break-up. For those that have read it and think it's imaginary B.S., don't scoff. Everything in that document actually happened. My new EX is hands down the most surreal relationship I've ever had.

It was worth it to me for the experience, but I'm in no hurry to get hooked up again for a while. I lay oods that three months is about all the 'for a while" I'm going to get from my 2 years and two months experience in the Land of Hungry Clams. Delightful! ;)

Let's have a discourse on trust and honesty with your Thai girlfriend. For the most part I think a lot of you guys are getting a little paranoid, but on the other hand I've done just about every lower-than-whale-shit-on-the-bottom-of-the-ocean-behind-the-back things that a mortal can do to catch my Ex at her B.S. games.

After a while it got to the point where I decided it wasn't worth it and adopted the attitute that my girlfriend is gonna lie: SO WHAT! It's obvious that you will catch her if you are actively trying, but it's also true that you're going to catch her if you don't try at all. These girls simply aren't as clever as they are made out to be in the "five and dime" novels you've been told to read. At least that's my opinion and I'll stand by it.

Hmmm... the stock market closes in 12 minutes so I'm going to end here and post one quick post after this one.

Remember guys, she's gonna lie. Get over over it. Just remember there are only two rules in life:

1) Don't sweat the small stuff.
2) Everything is small stuff.

poster

PosterLion
03-22-06, 22:09
As you know I've been here two years. My verbal Thai is pretty lousy, but I've come to recognize that I have a Thai language talent that is developing far and away faster than my verbal skills. I've become an ameuter English to Thai translator.

I know it sounds freaky if not down right impossible, but I'm not joking one bit. As a matter of fact, I think I'll be whipping this shit out quite rapidly after a couple more practice runs. You see, up to this point, I've made a mere two translations. The second one took me about half the time as the first and it was four times the volume.

So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you guys some more of my little poetic darlings that you all know and love so much. HA HA! :)

First I'll provide the English and then I'll give you the two translations I made from it. I did everything, even the Thai script. It's wasn't that hard after I cast a spell from my Black Book of Khmer Magic.

LOVE

for those that have a life
it is to die for
for those with no life
it is a reason to live

===

รักให้

ผู้ที่ชอบชีวิตไม่อยากเห็นความตาย
จนกระทั่งรักให้พลีชีพเต็มใจ
ผู้ที่เกลียดชีวิตเสาะหามัจจุราช
จนกระทั่งรักให้ความหวังในใจ

===

รักกระไร

ใครที่มีชีวา
มันพลีชีพจำเป็น
ใครที่ไร้ชีวา
มันกลายเป็นเหตุ

Old Thai Hand
03-23-06, 01:11
Old asia, do you realy believe we can find a Thai girl that we can trust! If so she will be after the money later.

Firstly, learn to differentiate between BGs and TGs.

The thing that most annoys me is that most guys here only meet bargirls and assume that all Thai girls are the same and therefore make generalizations about Thai girls as a whole which just aren't true. Most of you guys, with a few exceptions (the veterans who have been here a lot or lived here for awhile) know nothing about real Thai women.

Believe me there is a world of difference between a bargirl and a regular Thai girl who has an education, a job and a normal life.

Most regular Thai girls are pretty honest, at least when it comes to fidelity. That's what I was referring to in my post below. A regular Thai girl is quite loyal to her man, certainly more so than a Western woman and therefore usually doesn't play around, unlike Thai men who because of cultural history, assume it's still their right in the 21st century to have as many women as possible at the same time.

As for money, unless she is a dirt-poor upcountry girl from Isaan, a regular TG, generally won't be after money. There are exceptions, of course. Certainly, within the culture, there are definite expectations regarding money; dowry, allowance and helping members of the family, if needed. But, that's normal here. It's just different than what one is used to in Western culture.
The girls that the vast majority of Farang encounter (i.e. Bargirls, mostly from Isaan) are lazy, uneducated and have been co-opted by the easy life and easy money that comes with being a ho. Extreme and persistent dishonesty and deceit come with the job. But, these kind of girls are very much outside the norms of the culture.

But, lying is a part of the culture as I've written before.

Lying here isn't conceptually the same as lying in the West. For one thing, it is usually done to "save face" in its various permutations both for the person lying and the person being lied to. Even a BG who lies is just trying to "save face" for herself, not hurt you and in her particular case, of course trying to hang onto her meal ticket(s). The nature of lying is tied up in the notion of being "krengjai" or considerate of others' feelings. This is a cornerstone of the culture. It's not merely meant to protect the liar, but to protect the person being lied to. It is deception of course, but not usually meant to harm in anyway.
With our Western concepts of truth and lies, it is the biggest area of misunderstanding that exists when the two cultures collide. If you are a newbie or just never get into the culture and try to understand it in anyway, this one area will always cause conflict.

Lion Killer
03-23-06, 01:25
Dinghy,

I guess you missed the point of my post. Sorry.

LK

Retired Army
03-23-06, 02:02
Let's have a discourse on trust and honesty with your Thai girlfriend. For the most part I think a lot of you guys are getting a little paranoid,


Remember guys, she's gonna lie. Get over over it. Just remember there are only two rules in life:

1) Don't sweat the small stuff.
2) Everything is small stuff.

poster

OTH always sums it up well and provides sage advice. As I have said many times before, it's hard to find a quality Thai girl during a two week vacation hanging out on Sukhumnit between Soi three and twenty three. I was lucky to be introduced to the sweetest girl in the world by a mutual friend. And that was after I had lived here for more than a year. I will admit that she does work in the Sukhumvit area, but owns her own shop and is attending college for her masters degree. And when I met her I had no idea where she lived or worked.

I trust this girl completely and have willingly provided for her and am glad to do so. But we also have an agreement. I am not responsible for her family and any money that she earns she is free to give to her family without my interference. When we first started dating she had more money in her bank account than I did in mine.

I have never had any reason to question her intentions or her honesty. As far as I know she has never lied to me and wouldn't be good at it.

BOTTOM LINE: there are plenty of sweet, wonderful Thai women in BKK that would love to meet a decent Farang man. Get the hell away from Sukhumvit and meet some girls who don't hang out at the Bier Garten or Therme.

SidTheSexist
03-23-06, 02:54
Maybe you should stop dating Bargirls and find yourself a nice, regular Thai girl that you can trust, so you don't have to play a childish game like this. If someone has to resort to doing this, then the girl is obviously not of the best quality and isn't worth keeping anyway. It seems a pretty scummy thing to do actually and doesn't say much for you either.

OTH,
Yes, you are right, it is a scummy tactic designed for people who feel they need to find out someway or another whether what they suspect, is true or not. However, please do not be too quick to jump on my back. First of all, I do not even live in Thailand, and I do not date BG's. But most importantly, if you paid any attention to my post you may have noticed me mention,

"Just read an interesting piece on another very well known thai column, about getting into your TG's mobile phone. This is my cheap and no frills way to finding out the truth about your "love""

Sorry if this came across as if I have used this method before, but just to clear something up; I havent. Maybe it should have read,"this is my suggestion." I was simply reffering to a whole column I had just read, which Im quite sure most other bro's would have read also. I only intended to give an alternative to an even more "scummy" and expensive method of actually listening into your GF by using some sort of spy technology!! Now, in my opinion, that is scum! And theres a company/people out there who are using the whole "track your Thai GF's phone calls" angle, to market the product. Ok, it hasnt been directed to this board (yet) but seen as I read it on a Thai Column, I thought some of you may have had an opinion. Sorry for any Offence.

sid

Coma Boy
03-23-06, 09:51
My GF is not a Bier Garten girl. She won't even go near there. Her shop is close to the Bier Garten and many of the girls are her customers.Aha, that's better.

But yeah, fuck, I've never met such a gossipy tale-telling race as the Thais. I feel your pain.

Retired Army
03-23-06, 12:03
Yes it is a problem. I suspect they lead such boring lives it helps spice things up a bit. The bar girls are bad, but maids are the worst. They know all about your "dirty laundry."

Coma Boy
03-23-06, 13:31
maids know all about your "dirty laundry."Unlucky, so it's the life of ST hotels for you, nevermind, they're always fun. As for your maid you should follow 1Ball's example.

1Ball employs a katoey maid who is a much better secret-keeper. "She" never says a word to his wife about his extra-curricula activities, yet often hints to his friends that "she" is one of such activities.

Seeko
03-23-06, 15:49
Just quick notes:
>Culturally Lie
I read an article on Stick's--"Why I Never Married A Thai."
It has a very deep insight into Thai culture and thinking. One of the issues the author has is honesty/integrity. Being grown up in US, I totally agreed with him and OTH. But, sometimes, love can blind you. And, sometimes, lust can overhelm you. I've been there both times and paid emotionally and financially. Lessons learned for me... Sigh...

>boring lives lead to constant gossips
No kidding. And, it's true outside of Thailand in other Asian countries. I'm grateful for my "western" education, providing me with a questioning attitude, deeper understanding of the world, and ability to consider outside one's life.
More often than not, I've gone to sit in bars and not talk to the girls, preferring to listen to the music, watch news/sports, or absorb the nitelife. After indicating that I don't like to be bothered, they surmissed that I must be a 'cheap charlie.' Well, yeah, why do I want to pay for her time when she can't keep up conversationally with me... More and more, I'm beginning to like soapies/MP's. Get the job done nice and neat. And, BKK has the best ones in the world...

Seeko

Freeler
03-23-06, 19:10
Thai gossip,
aka Thai telephone,
is so fast, it lives
outside any law of physics
known to mankind.

Beat that, PL!

Retired Army
03-23-06, 22:48
As for your maid you should follow 1Ball's example.

1Ball employs a katoey maid who is a much better secret-keeper. "She" never says a word to his wife about his extra-curricula activities, yet often hints to his friends that "she" is one of such activities.

No, I don't think so. I now keep my "discretions 100 miles from the flagpole." And as far as my sexuality is concerned, that has never been in question. Now my maebans are at least 65. That way their friends are the same age and they don't talk much about sex.

Old Thai Hand
03-24-06, 02:01
seeko

i agree with you about talking to the girls in bars. of course a bargirl isn't going to be interesting to talk to because she doesn't know anything about anything. she knows about eating, sleeping, watching tv, shopping, drinking, gambling, basic buddhism, animist superstition, maybe yaba, and fucking. beyond that, her scope is extremely limited. it's amazing to me that guys actually want to have these girls as gfs and wives. except for practicing my thai, talking to them becomes a bore after about a minute.

the sad truth though is that thai women in general are pretty boring. i've come to realize that one of the reasons i change women so often here is not boredom with sex, but boredom with conversation. even supposedly educated thai women don't have a lot to say about anything. their intellect is fairly superficial, they rarely question anything, they have only a passing interest in the world outside their own sphere and they seem very content to eat, sleep, watch tv, watch movies, go shopping and if they are younger, (18-25) go to some bar and drink and dance. they may be aware of some things happening in the world, but rarely have an opinion about it. they generally don't read except for magazines like cosmo and of course the ubiquitous cartoon book, the preferred "literature" of most thais from 5-50. thai women's literary interests are so limited and poor that i find myself feeling hopeful if i meet a girl who's reading harry potter. at least, the pages are full of words, not pictures.

on the rare occasion when i actually find a thai woman who's intelligent and interesting to talk to, i prefer to keep her as a friend rather than get involved with her. i have a friend now who's only 23, but quite on the ball. her current reading material is the [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) of nanking, in english, no less. she's constantly hints at wanting me to be her gig, which i have contemplated, except that i don't want to ruin a good friendship and lose someone who is a rarity in this country; a good conversationalist.

i had a thai gf for 4 years here who, although she had only a highschool education was always hungry for knowledge about all kinds of things. she never bored me and always surprised me, like the time i came home and found her reading a book in thai with a picture of napoleon's battle of the pyramids on the cover. completely dumbfounded, i asked her what it was about. it was then that i discovered that she had a great fascination with ancient egypt and the number #1 place she wanted to visit was the pyramids of giza and the sphynx.

sadly, women like these are few and far between here. most thai women are like a beautiful lalique vase, finely crafted on the outside, but hollow in the middle.

Coma Boy
03-24-06, 07:25
Thai gossip,
aka Thai telephone,
is so fast, it lives
outside any law of physics
known to mankind.
Good work Freeler. That's an excellent poem, and so true.

PosterLion
03-24-06, 08:17
Freeler,

Brill!

Unbeatable!

and True...

I've experienced those physics before and can't find any math to describe it, but your poem describes it better than math anyway. :)

On a side note, the crux of your poem scores a point for the yaba chicks because they always end up smoking their phones, amoung other
things. ;)

Coma Boy
03-24-06, 09:10
First I'll provide the English and then I'll give you the two translations I made from it. I did everything, even the Thai script.Poster, there is no way in the world that you wrote that Thai without help, in fact I'll bet you seven katoey mandibles.

That was too well written, even Andrew Biggs, OTH, or myself can't write Thai that well. The Thai is written very beautifully and poetically, so whoever wrote it has a way with words.

I mean, you haven't even translated it into English correctly, let alone written the Thai yourself. Not many Farang know the word มัจจุราช (God of Death), let alone พลีชีพ (Self-Sacrifice).

Bring me my fucking mandibles you plagiarist.

PosterLion
03-24-06, 09:26
BOTTOM LINE: there are plenty of sweet, wonderful Thai women in BKK that would love to meet a decent Farang man. Get the hell away from Sukhumvit and meet some girls who don't hang out at the Bier Garten or Therme.

Ok Ok. I agree with your point regarding the ladies whose alma mater is Sukhumvit University. However, the sweet darlings that hail from Chula or Thammasat are gonna lie as well. I'm positive at least one Thammasat girl has lied because she was my girlfriend for two years (ok! 1.5 years). ;)

OTH contributed much info concerning the girls with a formal education and it seemed to me his summary was, "Yeah, they gonna lie." At least that's my paraphracation of his bottom line summary. OTH does however state his views with a tad more eloquence than I am capable of due to factors that are beyond the scope of honesty,

My idea on the entire issue of honesty remains as stated: SO WHAT.

The two rules also apply:

1) don't sweat the small stuff
2) everything is small stuff

I know it sounds ludicrous if not impossible that these two little rules can make your life better, but they can. Here is a simple recipe: Take these two rules and add them together in a mixing bowl. Then add whatever ingredients you prefer and put it in the oven for three days at 100 degrees or three hours at 500 degrees and your gonna get the same thing.

It doesn't matter what you do as long as you abide by the rules. It's impossible to fuck them up because they are unfuckable and they are unfuckable because they don't participate in the attachments of normal life, no. That is because the two rules are nothing more than a simply way of describing detachment. They be a few little bitty words that make up two little bitty sentences that make up something that is NOT EASY to do. And that is just another example of small stuff too.

OTH is correct based on the experiences I've had with my Thai girlfriends. Please note: I've had two Thai girlfriends during the 26 months I've been here. Granted, you can draw a line with data two points, but you wouldn't rely on that line if it had anything to do with women from Thailand or anywhere. Actually, there are no statistics that can draw a bell curve around women.

I've one more observation from my chart with two data points. While I assume most Suk. U. graduates are considered to have more infidelities in their relationships than their Chula/Tammasat counterparts, my experience doesn't back up such an assumption. Both girlfriends were very good about keeping their pants and (in the case of a dress) undies on. I was the one that proved to be the fuck-up in that area.

cheers :)

PosterLion
03-24-06, 13:41
Poster, there is no way in the world that you wrote that Thai without help, in fact I'll bet you seven katoey mandibles.

That was too well written, even Andrew Biggs, OTH, or myself can't write Thai that well. The Thai is written very beautifully and poetically, so whoever wrote it has a way with words.

I mean, you haven't even translated it into English correctly, let alone written the Thai yourself. Not many Farang know the word มัจจุราช (God of Death), let alone พลีชีพ (Self-Sacrifice).

Bring me my fucking mandibles you plagiarist.

Plagiarist my ass boy! It's not plagiarism to use words from a dictionary. And you are correct that that Thai is written beautifully because I wrote that shit sure as you're name is Coma.

However, I wouldn't go so far as to say it is poetic so awful much. There's a whole lotta shit I gotta learn about Thai poetry because that stuff be complicate maak, tha waa one day I think I'll be able to do it sure.

Why don't you and your pals come over and witness my freaky magic? And trust me son, you better bring a whole lot a mandibles. Whatever they are. ;)

All right... I understand the doubting Thomas. Hell I was one myself until I showed my stuff to one of my favorite working girls and she was more amazed than I, especially because of the use of older and little known words. She told me I could make a small book with the Thai and the English that would sellout to the student population in a new york minute.

Anyway, shame on you for not believing in me man. One thing to note in the one I'm sending now is the omission of the third line of the third stanza. I thought it too repetitive after translating it into Thai. It's the reference to "ever so child-like."

I thought I ought to bring this to your attention before you incorrectly state the direction of the incorrect translation. It ain't as easy as you thing to translate something 100% literally. The second one rakgrarai รักกระไร was my attempt at a literal literal translation.

If you still don't believe me then you send me something and I'll give it a whirl.

later
post

===

a single rose

to walk down the street with a rose
must be the bravest thing in this world,
everybody sees your red heart on the
end of a thorny branch

they watch you go by
knowing of the bricks
and mortar
and planks
and nails
you beat down to find
your quivering heart

like a clown in the parade
you walk down the street
ever so child-like,
that a single rose
might reach
her
hand

===

ดอกกุหลาบเดียว

เดินบนถนนกับดอกกุหลาบ
ต้องเป็นสิ่งกล้าที่สุดในโลก
ทุกคนมองดูใจของคุณคุแดง
ณตอนท้ายกิ่งมีหนาม

พวกเขาทัศนาท่านต่อไป
ทว่าไม่มีใครเข้าใจที่อิฐ
และโกร่ง
และกระดาน
และตะปู
ท่านปู้ยี่ปู้ยำสำหรับเจอ
ใจอ่อนไหวของคุณ

เหมือนกับตัวตลกในการสวนสนาม
ท่านเดินบนถนน
สำหรับดอกเดียว
อาจจะเจอ
ฝ่ามือ
ของ
เธอ

===

lastly but not leastly... some attempts at your thai name, lol

อาการหมดสติ กุมาร - aa gaan moht sa dti goo maan
อาการหมดสติ หนุ่มทั้งแท่ง - aa gaan moht sa dti noom thang thaaeng
อาการหมดสติ ลูกชาย - aa gaan moht sa dti luuk chaay
อาการหมดสติ ห่มน้อย - aa gaan moht sa dti hohm naawy
โคม่า บอย - khoh maa baawy

FKKguide
03-24-06, 14:49
More and more, I'm beginning to like soapies/MP's. Get the job done nice and neat. And, BKK has the best ones in the world.
SeekoSame here!

But on the subject of Thai women to be deceitful and shallow I do not agree. I married a 27 yo Thai MBA, one of my students, and I didn't catch her on any lies (she cought me: I lied about my age. But she laughted it off). She definitely was more interesting than the average Western college party chick. -- Her family background was humble and she went to university against the will of her parents.

One of her relatives, a young, pretty girl, was into literature, ancient history and mythology, opera, classical music, played violin and piano, and in a shopping mall would only want to visit the book stores.

None of her 8 brothers and sisters were into brainy stuff, so go figure.

After 10 yrs which were most content of my life, I am divorced now, but not for the usual Western reasons, and we are still on good terms. My ex was into a serene spirituality that only Asian Buddhism seems to generate, very ambitious, a bit stubborn, but reliable and, important to me, clean living: into healthy nutrition, no drugs, no smoking, no alcohol.

She also had a petite, trim body, tight pussy and smiling face. Hard to find that combination in any Western woman.

I'm going back to LOS for the next one.

Coma Boy
03-24-06, 15:37
It ain't as easy as you think to translate something 100% literally.Tell me about it, I used to translate Thai to English for a few Thai magazines. I often ended up translating, and then just rewriting the whole article in my own words. Otherwise three translations are required: Thai to direct literal English translation. Direct literal translation to understandable translation. Understandable translation to well-written flowing English.

It's good that you've learnt to write Thai now, surprising though considering how little you can speak it. Then again, I write Thai much clearer than I speak it, with writing I don't have to worry about getting my tones spot on.

I took the Bor-Hok equivalancy exam a few years ago and you have to learn a shit load of traditional and ancient words. You soon realise that they're fuck-all use in real life though. Except for poets of course.

Still, Freeler's poem was the best so far.

Retired Army
03-25-06, 00:48
Seeko

I agree with you about talking to the girls in bars. Of course a bargirl isn't going to be interesting to talk to because she doesn't know anything about anything.

Beyond that, her scope is extremely limited. It's amazing to me that guys actually want to have these girls as GFs and wives. Except for practicing my Thai, talking to them becomes a bore after about a minute.

The sad truth though is that Thai women in general are pretty boring.

Even supposedly educated Thai women don't have a lot to say about anything.

Thai women's literary interests are so limited and poor that I find myself feeling hopeful if I meet a girl who's reading Harry Potter. At least, the pages are full of words, not pictures.

Sadly, women like these are few and far between here. Most Thai women are like a beautiful Lalique vase, finely crafted on the outside, but hollow in the middle.

Maybe I am just lucky to have met such a wonderful Thai woman. Even though she is from a small town, her father was an educated man with many farang friends and spoke English. She attended University and has gone on to get her master's and wants to earn a PHD in English. She has her own business and has read all the Harry Potter books in English. She loves to travel and I have taken her to Europe and Australia several times. She is open to different religions and has studied Christianity. Not that I want her beating a bible, but it at least shows she is curious about new things. This is why I think she is a keeper.

Retired Army
03-25-06, 00:56
I was just thinking about what you wrote and couldn't agree with you more about talking to girls in bars. If I had a choice of talking to a girl in a bar or putting my dick on a table and beating it with a hammer, give me the hammer.

I also know many men who are married to sweet Thai girls and are just as happy as a pig in slop. And my girlfriend is always asking me if I know any guys for her girlfriends. Great girls who are educated, not bar girls, but have put careers over marriage. Problem is, I don't know any guys that are good enough for her friends. Most of the guys I know are dullards, punters and drunks.

Coma Boy
03-25-06, 09:36
lastly but not leastly... some attempts at your thai name, lol...Here you are คุณ โปสเตอร์-ไล่เอิน / สิงโต-ป้าย, my official Thai name:
ด.ช. เฉื่อยชา ณ มหานคร

Thanks for the PM explaining the black-magic, it all makes sense now. Although it's always a little disconcerting when someone reads "that" book.

Freeler
03-25-06, 12:00
Yo Coma Boy,

You're in a coma dude, not just 'inactive'...

Coma Boy
03-25-06, 14:03
Good point, but there really isn't an easy Thai word for it. I can only think of how to explain it in Thai- อาการหนักมาก เป็นตายเท่าๆ กัน.

Okay, I'll change to ด.ช. หมดสติ. Closer.

Anyway, enough of this, must be boring the shit out of most forumites.

Retired Army
03-25-06, 22:05
Judging from the large number of PMs I received about the subject of my last post, I have concluded that there are a lot of good guys out there looking for love in all the wrong places. I will do what I can.

Eaglestar
03-26-06, 14:10
http://www.thailandpi.com/background-investigation-thai-girlfriend.htm

Nice post. Maybe save some poor suckers from doing what William did.

Should be in posts of distinction.

ES

Cebu Local
03-26-06, 17:18
Judging from the large number of PMs I received about the subject of my last post, I have concluded that there are a lot of good guys out there looking for love in all the wrong places. I will do what I can.I just had dinner with Good Enough,One of the old timers here also on the board and We were just talking about this topic.Yes not everybody on the board is a drunk,loser etc.He had just arrived from Bangkok and was commenting on the great time he had there.The secret to his great time was treating them with a good heart and respect.He and I personally of many decent ISG guys looking for love and eventually finding their partner.Lots of these guys are OK or even great catches by any standard.Take my personal case for example,I am involved with a Chinese woman who graduated from the same University as me in Canada.She is very attractive and holds a high level prestigous job that has her mixing with Shanghai High society.She goes to places like the UK or Australia for holiday and knows people like Former Singapore PM Lee Kuan Yew or Jacky Chan Personally

Normally you would say that a woman like this is too unreachable for people at ISG.But I am in my Thirties,single,own several businesses like restaurants,Travel agencies etc and earn in the mid six digits yearly which many senior members in the PI,China or Macau can vouch for.Like her I am a member of my adopted country s "society"Yet I am very active in the ISG and was looking for love before I found it in China.But I also personally know several ISG members who are holding great jobs,relatively young and who are also soulmate hunting in the PI or LOS or china.The question is how to match the Good Guys with the Good Girls.You may match good guys with women from hell.Good luck
P.S I used to live in Thailand so I know how to avoid the dead aunt and sick water buffalo bs

Cebu Local
03-26-06, 17:19
Nice post. Maybe save some poor suckers from doing what William did.

Should be in posts of distinction.

ESDefenitely

Retired Army
03-26-06, 18:13
Yes not everybody on the board is a drunk,loser etc.

The secret to his great time was treating them with a good heart and respect. He and I personally of many decent ISG guys looking for love and eventually finding their partner.Lots of these guys are OK or even great catches by any standard.

But I also personally know several ISG members who are holding great jobs,relatively young and who are also soulmate hunting in the PI or LOS or china.The question is how to match the Good Guys with the Good Girls.You may match good guys with women from hell.Good luck



I think we have gotten a little off track. The point of the thread is: "it's hard to find a good quality Thai girl on a two week holiday in BKK or Pattaya if all you do is visit the Bier Garten or Beach Road. Not to disparage any member of the forum, but if you are looking for a 500 THB ST, the chances are slim that you will find someone you want to take home to introduce to your mother.

I had stated that my girlfriend was always asking if I knew any nice guys to introduce to her friends. These are educated, decent Thai women. Not bargirls. Most of them have put their careers or family before marriage. They may not be the kind of girl you see hanging out at Siam Square, but I sure wouldn't classify them as ugly. But do I want to introduce them to someone only interested in a ST? I think not!. I was suprised at the number of PMs I received from decent sounding guys who would love to meet a good Thai woman.

As to the comment about women from hell; I personally believe they are mostly Educated Western Women (EWW).

Freeler
03-26-06, 19:37
Retired,

"but if you are looking for a 500 THB ST, the chances are slim that you will find someone you want to take home to introduce to your mother."

Even if this is true in a way, let me point out two rather important issues:
1- B500 ST is a bit on the high side:)
2- The reason 'men visit a prostitute' is that they do not want to take her home to mommy. They, that's most of us, just want to fuck them and send them on their way.

Terry Terrier
03-26-06, 20:34
2- The reason 'men visit a prostitute' is that they do not want to take her home to mommy. They, that's most of us, just want to fuck them and send them on their way.

Couldn't agree more.

FKKguide
03-26-06, 20:58
Retired,

"but if you are looking for a 500 THB ST, the chances are slim that you will find someone you want to take home to introduce to your mother." ..... They, that's most of us, just want to fuck them and send them on their way.You got it. Stupidest thing to do is looking for love in a bar, anywhere. There are plenty of nice Thai women who are almost desperate to meet a good man, preferebly a Farang, for reasons already discussed here. They do not hang out in bars, and rarely on the beaches. Before the internet there were matchmaker magazines where I met my Thai ex-wife (a 27 yo MBA with a good job who ownes 5 RE properties) and about 15 other candidates, aged 18-30. I had a blast checking them out. Now that she divorced me (by mutual understanding) I am scouting on the internet and have developed a short list of 5 in Phuket alone, among them a 28 y o MD and a 20 y o student, a HiSo girl who practically stalks me: calls, chats e-mails every day. Here are 3 resources I recommend (forget all others):

http://thailandfriends.com (free and huge member base)
http://MyThaiBride.com (US$30 for lifetime membership)
http://ThaiLoveLinks.com (USD30 for 3 months)

Now understand: i'm not handsome, young, rich or famous (65 y o prof on small pension), but I dont't drink, gamble, or do drugs (that I like to monger is none of their business ;).

Retired Army
03-26-06, 21:05
Retired,


Even if this is true in a way, let me point out two rather important issues:
1- B500 ST is a bit on the high side:)
2- The reason 'men visit a prostitute' is that they do not want to take her home to mommy. They, that's most of us, just want to fuck them and send them on their way.

1) I usually get them to pay me, and
2) Why buy the cow when the milk is free.

I love ya darling, just don't be here in the morning when I wake up.

Old Thai Hand
03-27-06, 01:46
2- The reason 'men visit a prostitute' is that they do not want to take her home to mommy. They, that's most of us, just want to fuck them and send them on their way.


I have always thought that there should really be two threads here; one, as titled here, about non-P4P Thai women and another entitled, "Thai Hookers - Opinions & Advice". That way, guys would stop lumping all Thai women together. I am not, btw saying that you (Freeler) are doing that. Your post made me think about the differentation between regular Thai girls and bargirls.

I chat with a lot of Thai women on MSN etc. and they complain that most Farang think they are the same as bargirls. A lot of these girls are good, decent women, who genuinely want a Farang husband because they are tired of Thai men who, by and large are irresponsible, immature, selfish losers who don't take care of their women. But, these women tell me that most of the time when they chat with a Farang, the Farang usually starts talking about sex right away. To most Thai women, this is highly offensive.

The problem is that a lot of Farang who only have a very narrow and ill-informed experience and knowledge of this country make the mistaken assumption that all Thai women are the same and are available for easy sex. This just is not the case. Unfortunately, a lot of foreign governments, particularly in the West have jumped to the same conclusion which is one of the main reasons why it's so hard to get a single Thai woman into the U.S., Canada or England etc.

Meaty
03-27-06, 04:16
1. "We did meet in a bar, but she's not like the rest, she's different and we really do love each other"
Then they'll go on and on about how different and great she is, usually convincing only themselves.

2. "She's not from a bar, we met at xyz, she's different and we really do love each other"
Then they'll go on and on about how different and great she is, usually convincing only themselves.

My point is that everyone in a 'relationship' with a Thai girl, (bar or not) seems to be constantly justifying being with them.

On another note, of course bar girls are different to normal Thai girls, but in my years, the only difference i have spotted is the receipient of the payment. You give the BG the cash, normal Thai girls will let you give the money to the retail outlet, restaurant or theatre, which makes you oh so superior :D

And i work in an office full of Thai girls, Bangkok city girls, degree educated, and they are equally as dumb as Isaan BG's, equally as deceiptful and backstabbing, and all out to get a jump in the sack with the farrang guy to higher their status within the Thai populus of the company.

There are also 'normal' girls in offices surrounding ours that make it quite clear that if approached you'd be discussing when and where, not for ST, but for a movie or dinner, and you're probably right, not even sex on the first date, but by the second date, as in the west, if you treat her right and 'play the game' you'll be set.

RA, this isn't aimed at you, i enjoy your posts and from them you sound like a good guy, but i want to pick up on something you said and generalise it, not against you, just in general, please don't take offence.

Any 'girl' living/working/staying in the sukhumvit area (in p4p zones) whether they work in a hotel, or a bank, if they are willing to jump in the sack with a farrang they meet in this area, then they HAVE to know the kind of guy they are getting involved with, the kind of guy that frequents naughty places and enjoys spending time and money with low class Isaan girls, this doesn't sound to me like the kind of person a good girl would jump at the chance to be with.
But there are caveats galore, time of meet, dress, and god knows a million more, but i did say i was generalising.

Coma Boy
03-27-06, 04:27
and all out to get a jump in the sack with the farrang guy to higher their status within the Thai populus of the company.Most BKK office girls I know would consider such an action as resulting in lowering their status...

Meaty
03-27-06, 05:42
Most BKK office girls I know would consider such an action as resulting in lowering their status...
Lucky me then ! Maybe because i so hansum ? No seriously, i have met girls who fall into that category as well but i've not found them to be 'most', this is the 3rd company i've worked for in Thailand where it was definetly on offer, but i always had the feeling it was for oneupmanship, more than anything to do with me, this rings especially true with a hi-so BKk girl, who left our firm to be an air stewardess with Thai, her daddy got her the job, anyway, she went evil kenevil when i politely turned down an obvious move, and all she wanted was one over the isaan wife !
Please remember i am being very very general here.

Coma Boy
03-27-06, 05:52
...anyway, she went evil kenevil when I politely turned down an obvious move.She started doing dangerous motorbike stunts?

Meaty
03-27-06, 06:06
She started doing dangerous motorbike stunts?
LOL :D, she spread a rumour about me and a different co worker, less attractive, when the co worker found out, she said it was true and she had dumped me !!!!! That career path quickly froze over.

Coma Boy
03-27-06, 06:08
Well, that'll teach you for turning down a hi-so chick. They always get what they want, or get revenge, or tell daddy.

Seydlitz
03-27-06, 11:01
Well, that'll teach you for turning down a hi-so chick. They always get what they want, or get revenge, or tell daddy.

So Thai women are just women, like anywhere else. For a woman, wanting means taking action to get it. They will stop at nothing. And they usually get what they want in the end.

Retired Army
03-27-06, 12:54
1.
My point is that everyone in a 'relationship' with a Thai girl, (bar or not) seems to be constantly justifying being with them.

On another note, of course bar girls are different to normal Thai girls, but in my years, the only difference i have spotted is the receipient of the payment. You give the BG the cash, normal Thai girls will let you give the money to the retail outlet, restaurant or theatre, which makes you oh so superior :D

There are also 'normal' girls in offices surrounding ours that make it quite clear that if approached you'd be discussing when and where, not for ST, but for a movie or dinner, and you're probably right, not even sex on the first date, but by the second date, as in the west, if you treat her right and 'play the game' you'll be set.

Any 'girl' living/working/staying in the sukhumvit area (in p4p zones) whether they work in a hotel, or a bank, if they are willing to jump in the sack with a farrang they meet in this area, then they HAVE to know the kind of guy they are getting involved with, the kind of guy that frequents naughty places and enjoys spending time and money with low class Isaan girls, this doesn't sound to me like the kind of person a good girl would jump at the chance to be with.
But there are caveats galore, time of meet, dress, and god knows a million more, but i did say i was generalising.

For the record, it took me six months to get my GF into bed and not a lot of money. She insisted on paying her way at all but the most expensive places in town which couldn't afford. And our agreement is that she is welcome to spend any money she earns on her family. They are not my responsibility.

There is a lot of truth in what you write. However, I fail to see the difference between Thai girls and Western Girls in what it takes to get them into bed. There ain't NO free pussy. Some just costs more than others.

Seydlitz
03-27-06, 13:11
This interesting topic of "regular" girlfriends rather than P4P BGs has been going on for quite awhile. What have we heard? It would be good to summarize our collective opinion.

I take away from it all that women are women, that HiSo/MidSo girls are not necessarily better from a companionship point of view, and that they are rather hard to get at for the casual tourist, monger or not. So, I get it loud and clear that resident expats aspire to spend their evenings and weekends with someone less visibly a professional sex worker. But does it make a difference to all those who cannot gain access to those non-pro ladies?

From what I gather (and my own first-hand experience in that field is very sketchy), "regular" Thai girls, no matter how well-to-do their families, are just as shallow and possibly even boring in our Western view. So why bother? Yes, if you live there and have social ambitions, getting a trophy GF can help, that is unless you are her trophy. And you will always be at the periphery of Thai society. Even that good Mr. Jenssen who made it into the Royal family y marrying a daughter of the King was always something of an outcast.

Bam Boii
03-27-06, 17:10
Retired,

"but if you are looking for a 500 THB ST, the chances are slim that you will find someone you want to take home to introduce to your mother."

Even if this is true in a way, let me point out two rather important issues:

1- B500 ST is a bit on the high side:)

2- The reason 'men visit a prostitute' is that they do not want to take her home to mommy. They, that's most of us, just want to fuck them and send them on their way.Yes, when I go to a bar in Thailand I dont go there expecting to find my future wife, or someone to discuss the latest development within computer technology and rocket science with, or to get answers to to any philosopical questions i might have. Instead I just wanna meet girls which is good at being bargirls. Sexy girls coming a bit on to me and telling me what a handsome and sexy man I am in a way that I almost believe her. And telling me how young I look and what a nice man I am. And begging me to let her go with me. Guess thats why im such a happy man when im visiting Thailand.

Retired Army
03-27-06, 21:21
I take away from it all that women are women, that HiSo/MidSo girls are not necessarily better from a companionship point of view, and that they are rather hard to get at for the casual tourist, monger or not. So, I get it loud and clear that resident expats aspire to spend their evenings and weekends with someone less visibly a professional sex worker. But does it make a difference to all those who cannot gain access to those non-pro ladies?

From what I gather (and my own first-hand experience in that field is very sketchy), "regular" Thai girls, no matter how well-to-do their families, are just as shallow and possibly even boring in our Western view. So why bother?

Whatever makes one happy is fine with me. I have known girls who were in the sex trade and got out of it for whatever reason. They aren't bad people and the guys they are with are happy. So whatever; one man's dream is another man's nightmare.

Retired Army
03-27-06, 21:23
From what I gather (and my own first-hand experience in that field is very sketchy), "regular" Thai girls, no matter how well-to-do their families, are just as shallow and possibly even boring in our Western view. So why bother?

They are probably even more so shallow than Western girls.

PosterLion
03-28-06, 01:21
I take away from it all that women are women

Hey man! :)

Where did you come from? You're one of the few I've noticed on here that thinks a woman is a woman is a woman without the need to say, "But, hmm, except for this or that."

I think the same: a woman is a woman is a woman whether she be HiSo, MidSo, LoSo, or BarGirlHoSo.

One notch or two above LowSo is the highest I've managed to climb up the ThaiSo ranking ladder. My first girlfriend lived with her step sisters in a house owned by her step-sister's family inside the city limits of Phrae and my second girlfriend lived with 14 Aunt's and one Uncle in a house owned by her grandmother inside the city limits of Ubon.

Being that my two girlfriends grew up as the lowest ranking family member (ala nang of lowest degree), their family life was quite similar to that of Cinderella.

The girl from Phrae had the highest IQ rank in her province and was given a ticket to Thammasat for her merit and was also how she escaped from her evil sisters. She never was nor ever has been a bar girl. She has done editing for Front Magazine and has performed numerous freelance translation services for Image Magazine as well. She is also a light and sound technician and has performed at many venues in Bangkok including Fashion Bangkok and The Bangkok Film Festival.

The girl from Ubon got in trouble with her Grand Papa which she believed to be irrepairable so she stole a baht or two of gold from her Grandmother and ran away to Bangkok at the age of 16. She became a career prostitute almost overnight, as she arrived in Bangkok with her school uniform as her only possession and then answered an advert in a newspaper that read something along the lines of "Need young girls for massage. No experience neccessary, room and board and decent pay. Call 555-CUMM." She ranked fifth in her province in the art of public speaking. Although this was a bonified accomplishment in her life she has never forgiven herself for not placing in the top three, a fact she believes caused her instructor to loose face.

As far as I can tell there was not too much difference between the two of them aside from their lifestyle and the habits and traits that are associated with them, but underneath the flesh and the bone, they were both women to the Nth degree.


For the record, it took me six months to get my GF to bed and not a lot of money.

I feel sorry for me on that account, because I've never had a girlfriend that I didn't have sex with on the first or second date. I've always wondered how it would be to go into a relationship in a way such as you have done, but I've never had a girlfriend that required buckets of money as I've heard described by others.


Then they'll go on and on about how different and great she is, usually convincing only themselves.

Well actually... I've never had to go on about any of my girlfriends being different and great because all my girlfriends have been different and great, but as with anyone (me included and multiplied by 1,000), none of them were perfect, but one or two were damn close. I always find that in the end it was my fault and that I usually kill myself with my own mouth.


I have always thought that there should really be two threads here... ...That way, guys would stop lumping all Thai women together.

I've had the same experience as you have with internet gals in Thailand, but I've never talked to a gal on the internet that didn't tell me most guys talk about sex on the internet from the git-go and that fact has no relationship (inverse or direct) to their country of residence.

I don't think having two forums will do anything to help the plight of these poor girls. It's a sad fact, but it's a fact nonetheless, we men are fucked up because of our nature and having two forums is not going to change that. Besides, I like having the diversity of womanhood lumped together because they're a lot like 'ole Forrest Gump used to say, "Life is like a box a chocolates. Ya never know what you gonna get." When it comes to women, I think no truer statement has ever been said.

later
post

Meaty
03-28-06, 04:53
However, I fail to see the difference between Thai girls and Western Girls in what it takes to get them into bed. There ain't NO free pussy. Some just costs more than others.
Agreed ! A lot of western 'normal' girls are 'easy' as well !

Oldian
03-29-06, 08:01
thailandfriends does indeed have a large member base. Yet I find most of the gals on it to be pretty shallow, at least when it comes to any kind of intelligent discussion via the computer. I've dated 5 gals from thailand friends and despite the fact that they spoke english well, were good looking, and were certainly middle class, they just struck me as god awful boring. No chemistry whatsoever. Just seems like BG's are so much damn more fun, not to mention that one doesn't need so many dates of wasted time to score!

http://thailandfriends.com (free and huge member base)
http://MyThaiBride.com (US$30 for lifetime membership)
http://ThaiLoveLinks.com (USD30 for 3 months)

Now understand: i'm not handsome, young, rich or famous (65 y o prof on small pension), but I dont't drink, gamble, or do drugs (that I like to monger is none of their business ;).[/QUOTE]

Coma Boy
03-29-06, 20:17
The problem with a lot of those sites is that guys outnumber girls fifty to one, and so the girls are continually being bombarded with messages from losers and freaks.

The novelty of those sites soon wears off.

The Traveler
03-29-06, 21:27
Coma,

some/many of the profiles on those sites are fakes as well.

I once chatted with a girl on Yahoo and told her that I had seen her pic at ThailandFriends, but she denied to have ever been using that site so someone must have taken her Yahoo pic and created a profile on ThailandFriends.

Coma Boy
03-30-06, 04:57
I once discovered that a hot chick who I'd been chatting to online for several weeks was an old gay American man.

Creepy, especially considering I'd been obliging "her" requests for photos of my cock.

The Traveler
03-30-06, 16:56
Coma,

LOL, I often requests several pics - not just one - to verify that I am actually talking to the person in the profile. If these pics show different (every day) situations then there is a good chance that you really talk to her and not to an old granny or a gay guy. Webcams are best anyway.

Member #3409
04-08-06, 04:41
I have a bit of a loaded question. Last year on one of my trips to LOS I became friends with a bar girl. When I first meet her I was happy to just drink in the bar and tip her (oddly enough thats all I really wanted and why I went to this bar), but she grew on me and I took her as a customer LT a few times and we kind of became friends.

I have been back three times since for about 1- 1.5 weeks each and on each occasion she has spend maybe 75% of those nights with me the rest working. Most nights we avoid the bar and go out for dinner, maybe party a little with her local family or friends, some nights I would go home alone but most she would come back with me to my hotel. At the weekend when I wasn't working we would spend together and have a good time seeing the sites and meeting people. As friends we have only had sex maybe 3 or 4 out of the 15 or so nights she has stayed.

Anyway the problem is what money do I give to someone that is a 'friend'. As a customer I was more than happy to pay what she asked for, which was 4000LT, but as a 'friend' there is no way I would be paying that every night, regardless even if we had sex every night. I tried asking in a subtle way what is appropriate and was told the usual 'up to you'. What I setteled on was her BF of 500 baht (which she must pay to the bar) plus between 1500-2000 for each time she was with me. During the trip if there was something she needed or wanted I would consdering buying (within reason) and I gave her a little extra, 5000baht when I was leaving. Pretty fair I thought considering the bar where she works the girls from what I am told make most of their money on drinks and tips, and maybe only get BF once or twice a week.

I've never sent money from home to her, although have indicated to her that I would be happy to help her with some things if she needed it.

The first two times she seemed quite happy with this but when I went back a few weeks back she had changed. She didn't want to meet me anywhere but the bar, and only spent 3 out of the 12 with me. After I asked her what was wrong she got the shits with me and then asked one of her friends to have a word with me, who pointed out what I gave wasn't really enough and that I wasn't taking good enough care of her. Again I asked what was considered "taking good care" and was told it was up to me and must come from my heart. I then asked my friend about it and got a full on serve from her, she called me 'cheap charlie', her expectation is I should pay same as customer, but still do all the other things that friends do!! Shes got me confused. For the rest of the trip one day she would be happy the next she had this extream anger, like I've never seen in a Thai.

So the question is what is the right ammount to give in this sonairo? Do you give it up front, every night or a larger amount every few days? Also when A Thai lady has decided to forget you what is the best way to get her to talk and see some sort of reason, I have no doubt she really likes me and is genuinly dissapointed that I haven't taken care of he the way she expected? Or is this the way these ladies suck you in to become sponsers?

Terry Terrier
04-08-06, 05:08
Or is this the way these ladies suck you in to become sponsers?



Jc,

This girl has not stopped working. When she is with you she is getting her daily living expenses paid, and then some. And you are tipping her.

IMO you already, deep down, know the answer.

In your position I would walk away now.

Old Thai Hand
04-08-06, 05:18
Jc373

You've set yourself up for a LOAD of criticism from myself and others. Have you never read anything on this board?

I don't have to much time to go into great depth as to the whys and wherefores of what stupidity you've gotten yourself into here. Maybe others can add to this. But, in short you've fallen into the classic bargirl trap from which there is no good escape, except cutting her off completely and moving on with your life. This is a no win situation. What is a fair amount to pay, you ask? Whatever she can squeeze out of you through pouting, moodiness, anger, the cold-shoulder treatment, guilt and a string of other BG games designed to part you from as much of your money as possible. Without realizing it, you've fallen for this girl....a very bad move, indeed. She's a Ho, dude!!! She's not your friend, not in a normal sense of the word, anyway. You're still and always will be her customer. The friendship gamut is just an angle she's using. That she likes you only means that you don't completely repulse her like other customers do, and that it is easier to latch onto a regular than have a different one each night.

Wake up!!! This town is full of girls like her. Make a new "friend" and another after that. Keep it real.

Member #3409
04-08-06, 05:31
Jc373

You've set yourself up for a LOAD of criticism from myself and others. Have you never read anything on this board?

Yep know that I was setting myself up for when I asked that question, but sometimes you need to do that in life, to get a reality check. Its odd my mates at work who have a lot more experiance in LOS than I we encouraging me to sort things out with her, but still the same to not give anymore!!! Yep have read the board and made some comments myself but it isn't always that easy.



I don't have to much time to go into great depth as to the whys and wherefores of what stupidity you've gotten yourself into here. Maybe others can add to this. But, in short you've fallen into the classic bargirl trap from which there is no good escape, except cutting her off completely and moving on with your life. This is a no win situation. What is a fair amount to pay, you ask? Whatever she can squeeze out of you through pouting, moodiness, anger, the cold-shoulder treatment, guilt and a string of other BG games designed to part you from as much of your money as possilble. Without realizing it, you've fallen for this girl....a very bad move, indeed. She's a *****, dude!!! She's not your friend, not in a normal sense of the word, anyway. You're still and always will be her customer. The friendship gamut is just an angle she's using. That she likes you only means that you don't completely repulse her like other customers do, and that it is easier to latch onto a regular than have a different one each night.

Wake up!!! This town is full of girls like her. Make a new "friend" and another after that. Keep it real.

Thanks OTH what you have said is more or less what I was thinking anyway, I knew that I had fallen for her, but at least I haven't been dumb enough to continue handing the money over, so my big head is still in control. What I have given her (or should I say paid her) I do consider to be fair for what we have done so no problem with that, but her wanting more pissed me off just a little. Guess in this case maybe I am the one who has won, she knows that, so that is probably why she isn't talking! She did say on the matter I wasn't like other farang (and I had the heart of a lady), guess the others just up the money, but I stood firm! Thanks again.

Seeko
04-08-06, 07:29
So the question is what is the right ammount to give in this sonairo? Do you give it up front, every night or a larger amount every few days?
Give as much as you can. You should know that in Thai culture money equates love. If you love a TG, you give her lots of money. And, promise to support her family, too. And, buy land, house, and cars for them. They will all love you: a very generous man, who obviously loves his TG very much.
;-)

Also when A Thai lady has decided to forget you what is the best way to get her to talk and see some sort of reason, I have no doubt she really likes me and is genuinly dissapointed that I haven't taken care of her the way she expected?
There's no point going back to her. Or, even talk some sense and reason in her. Actually, that's true for most of the Thai people. They just don't get the big picture. Quick example: their current political situation...

Or is this the way these ladies suck you in to become sponsers?
Definitely, yes. I've been in your situation a couple of times, including sending money overseas. Of course, the lessons were necessary for my development to be a better monger. ;-)

Last year on one of my trips to LOS I became friends with a bar girl. When I first meet her I was happy to just drink in the bar and tip her (oddly enough thats all I really wanted and why I went to this bar), but she grew on me and I took her as a customer LT a few times and we kind of became friends.
Never confuse the two terms: friend vs. customer.
BTW, are you the first one to say that you two are friends? Hmmm...
Has she admitted that she loves you? Oh, oh...
I hope that you haven't admitted to her that you love her. Gulp!

Anyway, maybe she never considered you as a friend. Just a customer.
And, even if she has started to think of you as a "boyfriend," she doesn't anymore. She has been brainwashed by her co-workers. So, we must do the same to you.

Fellow mongers unite! Lets turn him around!
Seeko

Seeko
04-08-06, 07:43
I knew that I had fallen for her, but at least I haven't been dumb enough to continue handing the money over, so my big head is still in control. What I have given her (or should I say paid her) I do consider to be fair for what we have done so no problem with that, but her wanting more pissed me off just a little. Guess in this case maybe I am the one who has won, she knows that, so that is probably why she isn't talking! She did say on the matter I wasn't like other farang (and I had the heart of a lady), guess the others just up the money, but I stood firm! Thanks again.
Whew, looks like you understand what's going on. And, don't worry about her. She'll find anyone easily to replace you. And, you should do the same.

Oh, BTW, I would like present my rule of thumb in interacting with BG's, Go-Go dancers, MP ladies, hostesses, entertainers, and other customer-oriented service providers:

It is their job to make you fall in love with them. If you don't, then they aren't doing their job. So, you should go somewhere else or report to their supervisors.
As long as you know this, it is ok to fall in love with them. Just tip them appropriately and not spoil them. Part company decisively when it's time, and return when the real world is getting you down...

Good luck,
Seeko

Member #3409
04-08-06, 10:38
Never confuse the two terms: friend vs. customer.
BTW, are you the first one to say that you two are friends? Hmmm...
Has she admitted that she loves you? Oh, oh...
I hope that you haven't admitted to her that you love her. Gulp!

Anyway, maybe she never considered you as a friend. Just a customer.
And, even if she has started to think of you as a "boyfriend," she doesn't anymore. She has been brainwashed by her co-workers.


Thanks for your words of wisdom, I have learnt quite a lot, but that is what I reckon life is all about. With the above it was me who first used the word friend but her to use the L word. It was after the first time we did something that didn't involve the bar or sex and I was asking more or less how much she wanted. I said something like, “me customer, you bargirl, I know what to give, but me friend, you friend what I give?". The answer was the usual "Up to you", so I gave her 2000 (knowing 500 had to go to the bar), She seemed happy and that is more or less what I have given since, which I reckon is pretty fair based on what she has told me about what she would earn if she just stayed in the bar, without being BF'ed and taken away.

There have been times when the L word has passed her lips and yes mine too. I am certain she has thought of me as the boyfriend when in town, especially when going out with her non bar friends, and it has always been known to me that I should show how much I care when out, Ie flash the money a bit which goes against my grain!! I've never really thought of her as my girlfriend, but certainly a good mate. What we did together I personally reckon was much better than fucking a different bird every night so don't regret anything and I’ve got to see parts of Bangkok I wouldn’t without knowing a local even if she is a BG.

You also right about the co-workers, they do brainwash each other. The first issue I had with this lady was caused by another lady. This other lady reckoned I had been going to the bars for years, whereas I had correctly told my lady that I was new and still learning, which is why I didn't know the bar rules as it were. The friend had assumed that because one night I was with some work mates who HAD been going for years that I must have too and told her so. My friend was pissed off and said "you come many time, you tell me you only come 2 or 3 time, why you lie to me!!!" I also reckon its one of her friends that is putting shit in her mind now.

The good thing is one of her other friends, who might I add she got to keep me company one night when she was busy was mighty pissed at the way she was treating me. She said “she like you, she tell many story about you but I see she no want to be with you! Customer she with give big money but never take lady from bar”. Now this I really don’t care about shit she is a BG just doing her job. Its funny talking to other girls, the friend told me some of bedroom stories that my lady had told her about me! Guess the girls are like us and swap notes and stories too. One thing I never thought would get out, shit I’ve never even told my mates I was hearing again from her friend. Good compliement I reckon. She also told me how sad she was to see a bad change in her as she started to get popular and started to make more money. "The more she make the more she want", she said. They both started at the same time which was July 2005, maybe it was jealously and she was trying to steal me, but I reckon she was being truthful with me.


Give as much as you can. You should know that in Thai culture money equates love.
If you love a TG, you give her lots of money. And, promise to support her family, too. And, buy land, house, and cars for them. They will all love you: a very generous man, who obviously loves his TG very much.

Yes, well that is the problem isn't it? I wasn't giving for love; I was giving her money because she wasn't working and was with me. There is a big difference in my eyes. I show care and "love" for friends through actions and not money, so maybe Thailand ain't the place for me. If I wanted her for a wife then yes I would be happy to send money to her and hence her family, but in my silly way of thinking it should be expected that if I have a good job and love my lady then I would look after her and her family. Shit I do that at home now (not the wife bit), but look after my family. But as a friend, then nope I will not do that but I will do the right thing as I would for any friend. But yes this is Thailand and bargirls we talking about.



There's no point going back to her. Or, even talk some sense and reason in her. Actually, that's true for most of the Thai people. They just don't get the big picture. Quick example:
their current political situation...

Definitely, yes. I've been in your situation a couple of times, including sending money overseas. Of course, the lessons were necessary for my development to be a better monger. ;-)
Seeko

Well I have drawn the line at the sending money business, that is not my style. I know she doesn't want for anything if I am not there so I wouldn't do that. I would do something like ask her to come for a holiday or something but that is it. I think that is the main issue, because I didn't send money from home she didn't think I liked or care for her, so last time I came back she had given up and it was a strict customer/bar girl situation again, which is why she was pissed off when I paid like a friend still. Bloody complex this bar girl business. I have learnt a bit, now see why many farang are butterflies.



She has been brainwashed by her co-workers. So, we must do the same to you.

Fellow mongers unite! Lets turn him around!
Seeko

Well as silly as this seems I have always preferred to spend time with one girl rather than many. Even when punting at home, but can certainly see how dangerous it can be in the LOS. Things are not as black and white and these girls are bloody good and confusing. This board certainly has given me some idea's so maybe I can be turned. Just need to get back soon, maybe take one of the girls from the same bar!!!!

Thanks all for the advice.

FKKguide
04-08-06, 13:37
I have a bit of a loaded question. Last year on one of my trips to LOS I became friends with a bar girl. She's playing you like a fiddle. Dump her. She probably has 10-20 other suckers who sponsor her. You believed her BS right from the beginning, like that she made 2000 THB/night in the bar!?

These bar girls make practically nothing and often have to share the tips with the mamasan. 150-250 THB/day is the pay an average construction / factory / office / store worker gets in LOS. It's less in a bar, just shares on the drinks if she's lucky. The only reason they're there is meeting johns.

I knew a bar mamasan in Patty's Soi 6 who had 24 suckers sending her money every month. Each thought they were her husband, and she was bragging about it! The only reason she trusted me with the horrible truth: She found me at the hotel where I was staying. Her uncle was the owner, and recommended me as English/German teacher and swimming coach. I only visited the bar to give her and her BGs lessons. Hate bars and alcohol and cig smoke anyway. Some of the BGs were Ok, but I preferred the Thai MPs.

Never forget: "Deceit, thy name is woman!" (F Nietzsche)

The Traveler
04-08-06, 23:43
...
She didn't want to meet me anywhere but the bar, and only spent 3 out of the 12 with me. After I asked her what was wrong she got the shits with me and then asked one of her friends to have a word with me, who pointed out what I gave wasn't really enough and that I wasn't taking good enough care of her. Again I asked what was considered "taking good care" and was told it was up to me and must come from my heart. I then asked my friend about it and got a full on serve from her, she called me 'cheap charlie', her expectation is I should pay same as customer, but still do all the other things that friends do!! Shes got me confused. For the rest of the trip one day she would be happy the next she had this extream anger, like I've never seen in a Thai.
...
I have no doubt she really likes me and is genuinly dissapointed that I haven't taken care of he the way she expected
Jc373,

I guess you see yourself that the above statements are quite contradicting. If she would really like you, money would be no issue. Would you treat someone you really like that way ? I guess not.

There is no need to feel bad, paying 1500-2000 LT is the average payment, 4000 LT was probably more than she ever got from anyone else (even though she might tell you everybody else pays more than that), so calling you a cheap charlie was absolutely inappropriate. I guess you paid 4000 once and she wanted you to pay that every day. Since you didn't (smart move) she got pissed.

My advice : Forget her and move on. She already proved that she doesn't see you as a friend or even BF. She doesn't have the right attitude.. Sure, she works to make some money, but you have been fair and paid the going price plus a little extra.

PosterLion
04-09-06, 05:15
I'm just going to chime in here and infuse the thoughts that came wham-bham-this-split-second-into-my-head upon a cursory glance of our Newbie's Newbie Love.

DO NOT FALL IN LOVE WITH A BAR GIRL

I know it sounds like I am contradicting everything I've posted in the last year being that I was in love with a bar girl (I mean freelancer), but let me continue.

While it is true that I had love relations with one of BKK's street walkers, I never lent her the idea that I loved her. It was not until well after she began making love hints with me that I allowed my feelings to unfold.

In a nutshell, I think it best to have a strictly for business attitude with P4P women. When confessing your inner soul to her you might say something romantic like, "I'll be your business if you take care of my business." I would not advise saying anything more romantic than that.

The cool thing about this approach is that it works to your advantage from every possible angle. I discovered this secret quite by accident, but it works wonders for me.

I have but three women on my short list that I contact when I'm in the mood for some fun. I met one of them during the reign of my first girlfriend and the other two during the reign of the second. In all cases, I told the girls up front I had a girlfriend already.

This seems to always score a point in your favor. I think it is because of a couple of thoughts the P4P girl has that go like this:
1) Aha! Here is a farang that doesn't lie to every girl he meets. If he told me he had no girlfriend I would not believe him, but I can believe that he has one already. You've just scored brownie-points for being trustworthy.
2) Aha! If I can blow his mind on our first outing, I bet I've got myself a very good and very regular customer. I'm going to rock his world! You've just scored sincere motivation from your new service provider. This is not the same as brownie points, but sincere motivation is better than brownie points anyway. :)

As I said, I discovered this by accident and I think I will continue to tell all new talent I have a girlfriend already. And at the rate things are going with my three trusty stand-by's, I might not have to lie for long. lol...

WHAT GOES ON IN A GIRL'S MIND:

When a girl likes you and can't have you because you are committed to someone else, it makes her want you all the more. Two of my three stand-by's seem very very interested in straying away from the strictly business protocol since the breaking with my Ex-GF. The third one is showing no sign of changing the pay for play rules of engagement and that's a great thing for two reasons:
1) Prostitutes are good for sex
2) Prostitutes are good for listening to us say the things we can't say to our wives or girlfriends.

Anyway, I've exhausted the little that was twirling around in my head so I'll close up this report. But first, here are two of my favorite romantic lines I use with P4P girls.

"Yak gin money mai."

"Hurry on over, but don't forget to bring the baby powder."

That second line is for a girl that gives be a body rub using baby powder instead of oil or soap suds. It's Grrrreat! ;)

later
post

Freeler
04-09-06, 11:18
Posterlion,

You broke up with your EX-GF?
That totally puzzles me...

Member #3409
04-09-06, 11:51
thank you all for your comments. as can probably be seen she didn't suck me in that badly, i drew the line when she started to want more and i played the game my way, not hers. guess thats why she was very pissed off. i gave what i was comfortable with and what i felt was right. i have learnt some lessons the only way you can and that is by living it. reading these boards is probably what stopped me from being her ideal farang and getting sucked in fully.

as for the experiance i don't regret it, i liked the girl very much, yes i probably loved her in one sense and i had a hell of a good time. it was an arrangment that suited me well, and on the same terms i would continue it, like i said my question was more or less just reassurance that i wasn't under paying her for her 'service' which it seems i was not. if anything i was giving just a tad too much.

at the end of the day i think there was an element of like and friendship there both ways, but she is a bg who made no bone she was doing it to make money, so guess that is the over riding factor that drives her every day life. i guess we are all the same, but for us westerners work and money only drives us 40 hours a week, not 24x7 like these girls.


jc373,
i guess you see yourself that the above statements are quite contradicting. if she would really like you, money would be no issue. would you treat someone you really like that way ? i guess not.

certainly not, money is always a lower factor in my meassure friendship. but having come from a poorer family myself i can see why money would be a large factor for her and indeed all bg's or people from a poorer countries. it was put to me by a friend once that taking on a thai lady also means taking on the family and unless you can provide and prove you can provide then no amount of real love can overcome money. cannot blame them for what they are doing and how they go about it.



there is no need to feel bad, paying 1500-2000 lt is the average payment, 4000 lt was probably more than she ever got from anyone else (even though she might tell you everybody else pays more than that), so calling you a cheap charlie was absolutely inappropriate. i guess you paid 4000 once and she wanted you to pay that every day. since you didn't (smart move) she got pissed.

my advice : forget her and move on. she already proved that she doesn't see you as a friend or even bf. she doesn't have the right attitude.. sure, she works to make some money, but you have been fair and paid the going price plus a little extra.


she's playing you like a fiddle. dump her. she probably has 10-20 other suckers who sponsor her. you believed her bs right from the beginning, like that she made 2000 thb/night in the bar!?

yep i had more or less decided to cut ties, as i said above i just wanted to make sure that i wasn't the one who was 'really' in the wrong. if i was then i would have tried to do the right thing, but it seems i was doing the right thing.

as for price i thought 4k for lt (i only did that 2 or 3 times) was a bit high but my mates at work reckon 3-4k it is the going rate for that bar. i won't say the name of it but it is one where the girls do most of their work in the bar, so maybe the higher prices comes as a result of that. i've spent many a night in there and can confirm myself that there are a couple of ladies who get fined 3-4 times a week but most 1-2, my lady is at the 1-2 end. there are a couple who very rarely get fined. most seem happy to sit around drink and talk, sex although on offer is more a tertiary matter, not the prime like in a go go and other places i've been to. thats why i like drinking in this place and why it took quite a while before i felt the need or desire to have sex with her.

they do very well out of the lady drinks and tips. probably 300-500 a night lady drinks and 500-1000 in tips. again it wasn't my lady that said but from what i saw myself and what i've heard through the grapevine. not sure if they give to the mamsan. there are a few guys who are keenly fough after because they give big tips (1k each girl only stay 1-2 hours), feed the girls and don't take the girls away.

anyway as i said thanks for the advice, although a newbie in the los i've learnt and haven't got too burnt, so i am not totaly unhappy with what has happened.

Retired Army
04-09-06, 14:09
Are you sure you were in love or just in lust? The two are very simililar. Lust passes and love fades. You have to look at someone you think you are in love with and say: is this someone who has my best interests at heart and I want to spend the rest of my life with?

PosterLion
04-09-06, 18:51
Posterlion,

You broke up with your EX-GF?
That totally puzzles me...

Yeah. It puzzles me too now that I look at it again. Hmmm... Maybe I should have said, "since those days three months past, when I broke-up with the girl that is now my EX-GF."

Hell I dunno. Sometimes I just type and leave the thinking to everyone else. :)

Sorry man...

1Ball
04-09-06, 20:12
...Maybe I should have said, "since those days three months past, when I broke-up with the girl that is now my EX-GF."
........Poster, I think the correct way of saying it might have been...whom is now my EX-GF.
Let's ask Coma, he is a brit too.

The Traveler
04-09-06, 20:50
Certainly not, money is always a lower factor in my meassure friendship. But having come from a poorer family myself I can see why money would be a large factor for her and indeed all BG's or people from a poorer countries. It was put to me by a friend once that taking on a Thai lady also means taking on the family and unless you can provide and PROVE you can provide then no amount of real love can overcome money. Cannot blame them for what they are doing and how they go about it.

Jc373,

I was rather referring to her attitude and the way she treated you. Ignoring you, giving you the shit, calling you a cheap charlie instead of "explaining" her situation and demands in a nice way doesn't sound to me that she was emotionally involved or "really liked you". You were a customer, never a friend.

Seeko
04-09-06, 21:55
........Poster, I think the correct way of saying it might have been...whom is now my EX-GF.
Let's ask Coma, he is a brit too.
Poster, we know what you mean.
Freeler, give him a break.
1Ball, I think, it's "who is now my EX-GF." But, that's sort of wrong, since you can't mix past and present tense in the same sentence. But, there are no tenses in Thai, so there you go.

What a minute... This is Thai Advice Forum, not English. My apologies...

Seeko

Member #3409
04-09-06, 22:13
Jc373,

I was rather referring to her attitude and the way she treated you. Ignoring you, giving you the shit, calling you a cheap charlie instead of "explaining" her situation and demands in a nice way doesn't sound to me that she was emotionally involved or "really liked you". You were a customer, never a friend.

Yep I realise that she wasn't treating me that well and that is the very reason why I didn't give her any more and also why I asked the question here. That isn't to say that in the past she didn't think otherwise, there are some other things that went on that would suggest that there was an element of friendship. I reckon in the 3 months since I last saw her she has got more experianced at BG work and at trying to squeeze more money out of someone. Greed is the word that comes to mind, and I don't put up with that.


Are you sure you were in love or just in lust? The two are very simililar. Lust passes and love fades. You have to look at someone you think you are in love with and say: is this someone who has my best interests at heart and I want to spend the rest of my life with?

Mate I said their was an element of love, that was not to say I was head over heals in love with her to the point of wanting to spend the rest of my life with her, though you could do a lot worse, much worse, my last GF being one such example. The love that I felt was the kind that I would feel for a good friend, shit I feel the same about my best mate who is a guy, I don't fuck him though. As I also said the orginal arrangement suited me fine, that is I come to town. I spent time with her, she took care of me, I took care of her (paid her). We had fun, I moved on, she moved on. I much prefer that rather than going to a different girl every night, but yes doing so does lead you open to 'falling' for the girl or doing other silly things.

Retired Army
04-09-06, 22:41
Mate I said their was an element of love, that was not to say I was head over heals in love with her to the point of wanting to spend the rest of my life with her, though you could do a lot worse, much worse, my last GF being one such example. The love that I felt was the kind that I would feel for a good friend, shit I feel the same about my best mate who is a guy, I don't fuck him though. As I also said the orginal arrangement suited me fine, that is I come to town. I spent time with her, she took care of me, I took care of her (paid her). We had fun, I moved on, she moved on. I much prefer that rather than going to a different girl every night, but yes doing so does lead you open to 'falling' for the girl or doing other silly things.

Then I would classify that as lust and not love.

JuiceSpike
04-10-06, 00:50
Poster,

Your "DO NOT FALL IN LOVE WITH A BAR GIRL" statement is good advice for newbies. I'm not surprised that you came to this conclusion but I'm surprised you took so long to do it. Yes, there are some relationships with bar girls that work (3%?) but the odds are against you.

juices

PosterLion
04-11-06, 00:42
Yo 1,

I admit it. I never really got the hang of that who/whom stuff and it always showed up on my English exams and/or essays. Hmmm... It also showed upon on my grade report. I believe I received a D for my effort in my final English class. I was required to take summer school the year before that because I got an F. It was my summer school English teacher that was the first person to tell me I ought to consider the vocation of writing. What a laugh. :)

As an FWI, merely informational of course, the Thai language includes grammar rules for past, present, and future tense. I've run across a few of them while working on a recent translation.

===


I'm not surprised that you came to this conclusion but I'm surprised you took so long to do it.

Juice,

That is my conclusion for newbie's, but it is not my personal conclusion whatsoever. My last relationship was indeed a difficult one, but I've had relationships with normal girls (if there is such a thing) that were no less trying. Happy go lucky is better than miserable and luckless. :)

One thing of note from my previous post:


While it is true that I had love relations with one of BKK's street walkers, I never lent her the idea that I loved her. It was not until well after she began making love hints with me that I allowed my feelings to unfold.

Falling for a girl that loves you already is much different than falling for a girl that does not love you (which is indeed the norm). Men that fall for hookers that have no feelings for the man are in a bad pickle for sure. The trick is in the seeing of the heart that is in girl.

I'm not sure if it is possible to teach others how to see a woman's heart and that is why I posted my advice. As for me, I am a natural at reading hearts. The Thai's have a saying for those that are a natural: ช้างเผือกเกิดในป่า

The literal English translation is: auspicious white elephant is born in the jungle, but to understand the meaning of the phrase you must interpret the literal into the meta-literal: A genuine is born, not made.

We have a similiar idiom in Oklahoma. It is common to answer a stupid yes or no question in the affirmative (meaning you want to tell the idiot that the answer is yes) like this: "Does a bear shit in the woods?" ;)


later
post

P.S. I live inside the most amazing bubble of all. hahaha :)

JuiceSpike
04-11-06, 21:07
and the bubble you create inside even better... As Poster says, he reports and we have to do the thinking. Nice bubble.

juices

Three I
04-19-06, 04:29
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com

Retired Army
04-20-06, 17:52
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com

Just about anyone who is somewhat acquainted with Bangkok or Thailand knows about stickman.com

Catmonger
04-30-06, 22:08
Hey fellow mongers, I met a girl. Or a lady, really. We both have a kid and are single parents. She looks good and is over 10 years younger. She has education -FWIW-, and speaks a fair amount of English.
She seems nice and sincere as well. She never lived in BKK and is from up-North. She had the usual sh*thead Thai husband who brought ladies into their circle of friends and beat her. I tend to buy this story.

She never asked for money or pushed anything, only given in a sweet way.

Should I pursue marrying her and have a good decade with a Thai wife before moving to the LOS in 8-10 years? Or should I continue to sport ride and not be a sucker?

If all goes well, I plan to get married in LOS in a Buddhist ceremony and not get married until she has been in the states for 2-3 months. I'll probably get her an interpreter and a lawyer and have her sign a pre-nupt.

Flame away or give your sage advice please. I don't want to get burned, of course, but I would like to live with her and our kids love each other.

1Ball
04-30-06, 23:20
catmonger, "muzeltof" (sp?, sorry, i am not Jewish), but why marry her on 1 thread, and ask about a Gf hotel in another ?

Chocha Monger
05-01-06, 00:54
Hey fellow mongers, I met a girl. Or a lady, really. We both have a kid and are single parents. She looks good and is over 10 years younger. She has education -FWIW-, and speaks a fair amount of English.
She seems nice and sincere as well. She never lived in BKK and is from up-North. She had the usual sh*thead Thai husband who brought ladies into their circle of friends and beat her. I tend to buy this story.

She never asked for money or pushed anything, only given in a sweet way.

Should I pursue marrying her and have a good decade with a Thai wife before moving to the LOS in 8-10 years? Or should I continue to sport ride and not be a sucker?

If all goes well, I plan to get married in LOS in a Buddhist ceremony and not get married until she has been in the states for 2-3 months. I'll probably get her an interpreter and a lawyer and have her sign a pre-nupt.

Flame away or give your sage advice please. I don't want to get burned, of course, but I would like to live with her and our kids love each other.
Catmonger,

It appears that you’ve spent too much time in the sun. This woman tells you that her husband treats her better than his water buffalo and he cheats on her, then here you go champing at the bit to marry her and save her from this bad Thai man. Has it not occurred to you that there might be a reason why he beats her? She is married to this guy and yet she is fucking you. Is that the kind of woman that you want to marry? Perhaps, you are nice handsome man and therefore immune from being cuckolded. Is that what she tells you, Catmonger?

Since one of this woman’s main complaints is that her husband has a wandering dick, are you willing to play the faithful husband for the next 8 to 10 years? Somehow, I doubt that. When she catches you rooting another skank she will want revenge and in the US, unlike Thailand, she will have the full support of the law to vindicate herself. Yes, I know that you will have a pre-nuptial agreement. However, the judge has wide discretion in whether he will follow it or not. This woman would be an immigrant from a poor background and hence considered highly vulnerable to exploitation in the US, therefore chances are your pre-nup wouldn’t be worth the paper it is written on should you end up in divorce court. Also, pre-nuptial agreements have an expiration date and I believe that it’s a lot sooner than 8 to 10 years in most US jurisdictions.

Beyond really wanting to save this unfaithful woman from her allegedly unfaithful husband you give some other questionable reasons for wanting to marry her. You want to marry her because you are both single parents; your kids both love each other; she is ten years younger; she has an education; she speaks a fair amount of English; and of course you really want to live with her so that you can fuck that ass whenever you have a boner. Catmonger, slap yourself really hard across the face. I’ve never seen such bullshit reasons for wanting to shoulder the burden of a woman and her child. Clearly, the fuzzy feelings in your balls and the abused woman story have played havoc with your capacity for logical reasoning.

Surely, there must be some other way that you can help this woman escape the alleged beatings from her husband other than marrying her and taking her to the US. You have fallen victim to the belief that many American men have when abroad, the little voice that whispers, “If I rescue her from this hell on earth she will be forever grateful and treat me with love and kindness until I die.” I’m afraid that you will discover that reality is often far different from what that little voice promises.

My advice to you is to continue rodeo fucking this woman as long as you both enjoy it, but do not encourage her to leave her husband and run away with you to the US. At the moment you seem to be a better prospect than her Thai husband; in the US she will find better prospects than you. The fact that she is allowing you to root her, shows that she will be open to rooting the next man who comes along with a better offer.

Old Thai Hand
05-01-06, 03:34
Catmonger

Another small addition to make to the excellent advice you've been given by Choncha is that, if the husband ever finds out about you, while you are still in LOS, he could more than likely have you killed, or kill you himself and get away with it. Despite the law, and the constitution, most Thai men view women as property and act accordingly. You and his wife have made him lose face. He would be seen as the victim and would never be convicted of murder. It may sound extreme. But, I know of several cases where this has happened. Crimes of passion, when committed by men are not only tolerated but embedded in the culture.

Goodfeller
05-01-06, 04:20
All of the advice to Catmonger has been good and wise, the only thing I'd like to add is this. Of the men I've known to marry and bring back a girl from a foriegn country, the main reason for doing this has been how great that girl is versus how the women are of our own country. Meaning generally, western women are greedy, overbearing, manipulative, unpleasant, etc. This of coursse, is why we prefer women of foreign lands. But, to bring a girl back to the U.S. or whatever our homeland, it's generally a matter of time before they too become westernized and lose the very characteristics that made them so attractive in the first place. IMHO, it's only a matter of time until Catmonger would find that by bringing a girl back with him has robbed her of the great qualities she once had and caused some painful experiences along the way, emotionally and financially. Better off to enjoy the times while they last.

Seeko
05-01-06, 04:51
OTH/Chocha,
I think you may have misread Catmonger's words. The lady is no longer attached to the Thai husband. Or, rather ex-husband.
Catmonger states that she's a single parent. Plus, he used past tense to refer to him.

Anyway, even ignoring the husband issue, your advices are right on. Catmonger needs to sit down in a go-go bar, beer bar, FL bar, or MP coffee shop, grab a cold one, and let one of the lovelies steal his heart away and make him forget this woman, who is not only damaged, but also comes with a lot of emotional baggage.

Then, there is the issue of the kid whose biological father is still alive and may be very possessive. Gulp...

I think he needs to read Stickmn's...
Seeko

Giotto
05-01-06, 05:08
catmonger,

you read the replies from chocha monger, old thai hand and seeko. people who know thailand long time, and have their own experiences, think like this. i want to add a different point of view:

sometimes it is good to make important decisions for your life with your heart. use your brain only to control the processes and speed of developments which follows to your decision.

that means: live with her 1 or 2 years, without getting married. and watch how the relationship develops. the story doesn't sound too bad for me, both of you have a child each, both of you should know how life is. control the speed of the development, and experience life as it would be of you were married - and you should be fine then.

ok, friends, now it is time to jump on me :) .


giotto

Old Thai Hand
05-01-06, 05:48
Giotto

You old idealist, you. =)

Giotto
05-01-06, 05:50
Giotto

You old idealist, you. =)

Yes, my friend, I will never give up on that.


Giotto

Catmonger
05-01-06, 07:43
LOL, thanks guys. That's exactly what I was expecting as it's what was haunting me. Excellent advice from the bro's.
The husband is actually onto the second wife full time and cheating on her but wont give a divorce -so I'm told. Thai men do beat their women and cheat. He just brought the cheating in her face, I'm told. I have zero desire to be a knight in white armor, just wanted to know where the dad/husband was. Turns out he's gambling, etc. 'allegedly'

Good point again- about them becoming westernized. I'm looking at 8 years before rotation. Am I an idealist wanting 3 extra years?

I do want to take it slow, with an eye to dropping the relationship if baggage show its ugly face. True and true.

Sadly, I don't need GF hotels anymore due to being a single dad - and haven't for some time. I go out for that. I try to advise on them but don't generally know because there's no longer a need to know.

So, you fellas are telling me to continue doing laundry, cooking, and whacking off untill my next trip to the land of LBFM's. Fine. I'm heading to the pics. Send paper towels :bronx cheer:

LOL

Old Thai Hand
05-01-06, 07:44
Seeko

You're right. I misread that she was still with her Thai husband. Therefore, my warning is probably moot at this stage.

His possessiveness of the child all depends on what class he is. I assume that because she's educated, (whatever that means) that they may be at least both middle class or perhaps higher. If so, then it is very possible that he may still be interested in the child, especially if he sees a Farang involved. Then again Thai men who have many women (according to the story here) aren't that fatherly and therefore are not likely to care about their children too much. They often have children by many women and may only have a passing interest in the children of their current woman. Dead-beat Dads takes on a whole new meaning here with virtually no laws to protect women and children and provide them support in the event of a marriage break-up. In most cases, in my experience, Thai men are incredibly irresponsible when it comes to child support of any kind. Although there are certainly lots of exceptions, there are too many stories like this to lead one to believe that Thai men make the worse fathers in the world.

But then again, who wants to be the savior of a women and child escaping from such a situation as described here? Thailand is full of stories like this and often the women, justifiably are desparate. It can inject the relationship with a lot of tension right off the bat, which I think would be too much for most guys to deal with, especially if they are inexperienced with Thai culture and also, as in the case of Catmonger still mongering a lot when they visit LOS.

Catmonger
05-01-06, 08:09
Yes, I tend to make up for lost time when there. I live like a monk here and am regarded as a very devoted dad.
Your questions about baggage are what plague me too. And the facts around the dad who has presumably abondoned his child.

It just seemed a good fit, all things considered.

The estranged husband is a winning gambler with some sort of grift going. He has many girls. 'allegedly'

She has a 4 year LibArts equivalent degree but has not taught since fleeing the abuse.

I realize these sweet things can pull some serious wool over the eyes, as they suck the bedding through your arse. But at least they do the laundry after.

Ozirob
05-02-06, 01:30
I realize these sweet things can pull some serious wool over the eyes, as they suck the bedding through your arse. But at least they do the laundry after.


Every now and then a great one-liner - this one's a beauty!

I've got a slightly different situation (I've talked about it before in this thread). I only describe it because it seems to be different to most blokes stories in this forum.

I am 47, no oil painting, not slim but not fat, 182cm, reasonably fit. So pretty well invisible to younger females in Oz. I have been through the amazing discovery and awareness times of the first trips to Vietnam and Thailand, and Singapore where choosing and being with someone new every night was so unbelievable, and so much fun. Even the whole process of learning how to identify potential duds before they happen was a fun personal challenge!

However now I find myself sticking to girls I know, and who know me. I feel life is too short to be going through that dud process. For the last couple of years I have stuck to one girl in particular in BKK. She doesn't tell the stories, she doesn't want things, and she absolutely works in this business, no pretence.

And what a great time i have with her. Easy to be with, not embarrasing to be out with (i'm sure many of us have found ourselves wondering why did we go out in public with a particular girl), and very talented behind the closed doors!

So to get to the "opinion" part of this report, its my opinion that if you are returning at all regularly then finding a regular contact can be a great way to learn more about the language and culture and even about the business these girls undertake. The trick is to keep your feet on the ground because even if they aren't spinning stories, and pulling the wool over your eyes, they can be very very seductive, and if you are open to being seduced then they will take that road to you.

Seems I just love being seduced!

Ozirob

Member #3409
05-02-06, 08:57
So to get to the "opinion" part of this report, its my opinion that if you are returning at all regularly then finding a regular contact can be a great way to learn more about the language and culture and even about the business these girls undertake. The trick is to keep your feet on the ground because even if they aren't spinning stories, and pulling the wool over your eyes, they can be very very seductive, and if you are open to being seduced then they will take that road to you.

Seems I just love being seduced!

Ozirob

I think you are right. I get more enjoyment out of doing exactly that, the sex is a bonus and I reckon with most girls it gets even better the more you are with someone and the more you understand each other.

Not saying that guys that see a different girl every night are doing the wrong thing though, all to their own, but as I said I personally get more out of sticking to just the one girl.

Seeko
05-02-06, 14:03
His possessiveness of the child all depends on what class he is. I assume that because she's educated, (whatever that means) that they may be at least both middle class or perhaps higher. If so, then it is very possible that he may still be interested in the child, especially if he sees a Farang involved.
Then again Thai men who have many women (according to the story here) aren't that fatherly and therefore are not likely to care about their children too much. They often have children by many women and may only have a passing interest in the children of their current woman. Dead-beat Dads takes on a whole new meaning here with virtually no laws to protect women and children and provide them support in the event of a marriage break-up. In most cases, in my experience, Thai men are incredibly irresponsible when it comes to child support of any kind.

But then again, who wants to be the savior of a women and child escaping from such a situation as described here? Thailand is full of stories like this and often the women, justifiably are desparate. It can inject the relationship with a lot of tension right off the bat, which I think would be too much for most guys to deal with, especially if they are inexperienced with Thai culture and also, as in the case of Catmonger still mongering a lot when they visit LOS.
OTH, you hit them right on the spot. I agree with you about the dead-beat dads, not only in Thailand, but also in other SE Asian countries. I just came back from Manila and several times had to stop myself from offering more assistance then established monetary compensation for services rendered. Sad state of affairs... And, they were all so sweet and sincere...

And, as you stated, there is also a small chance of the husband interferring with future relationships. One main reason why I won't accept a divorced/separated mom. She must be a widow.

WRT possessiveness, I may have to reword it as protectiveness. Being Asian myself, I understand and accept all about blood being thicker than water and all that stuff. So, he may not support the kid, but if the kid is in trouble, he is expected to and will have to come to the kid's aid. It's all about the genes.

Then, there's the factor of first-born son, who is going to carry the father's name and inherit the family home/property/business/fortune. This could work in the wife's favor or not. If she has a son, then, she's set. If not, then, the husband would most likely look for another wife to have an heir. But, I'm sure they won't admit to it. They just come up with a lame excuse. Saving face and all that ego... Arrrgh...

Seeko

Catmonger
05-08-06, 04:59
Alright, it seemed like a good fit for my life. But I'm going to take the advice of those wiser and more experienced than I.

I see too many "issues" with this woman and don't want any extra issues. I was married to an American woman afterall... I've had "issues" enough for 8 Thai men.

Thanks guys. I'll tell her it's not going to work out and we can be friends.

Thaid Up
05-16-06, 02:08
Now that the Thai University season is upon us I have a few questions that Thai Old Hand might be able to answer.

1. There is always the outrage over the Thai girls university uniform and each year they seem to get shorter and tighter despite the powers to be reprimands. My question to OTH is how many girls has he seen wearing no underwear under those short skirts and do they use this technique to improve their grade average with their male instructors?

2. Any stories related to university hazing games such as the famous mock blow job game at Rangsit university?

Old Thai Hand
05-16-06, 08:30
Now that the Thai University season is upon us I have a few questions that Thai Old Hand might be able to answer.

1. There is always the outrage over the Thai girls university uniform and each year they seem to get shorter and tighter despite the powers to be reprimands. My question to OTH is how many girls has he seen wearing no underwear under those short skirts and do they use this technique to improve their grade average with their male instructors?

2. Any stories related to university hazing games such as the famous mock blow job game at Rangsit university?


1. I have seen only 4 students not wearing any underwear. The general trend is thongs. They don't do it for improvements in grade average, but simply as part of fashion so they won't have any VPL (visible panty line) under their very short, tight skirts.

As for tighter and tighter uniforms...2 weeks ago, one of my students who has quite large breasts and wears her blouses basically 'painted' on, came running for the elevator, and on getting quickly inside sighed a big sigh of relief, which was too much for her blouse to take. She popped a button that flew off like a projectile hitting the wall of the elevator. She just giggled and didn't even bother to close the gap. So, I got a nice shot of her black bra and aweseome cleavage.

...It won't improve her grade, though...lol

2. This is an old orientation game that's played at a lot of the unis. This year, I also witnessed students with spray bottles spraying the front of freshman girls' blouses. The uni administrations are trying to stop this, not because it's demeaning and sexist, but because it is viewed as bad for the image of the unis and Thai culture.


BTW- Your pic of the simulated oral sex is a year old. It isn't from this year. I doubt if this kind of thing is happening this year as there has been a serious clamp-down on inappropriate hazing rites.

Can you imagine this happening at an American school, especially with the obvious encouragement of the upper class female students? Shit! There would be sexual harrassment charges, students would be expelled and administrators would lose their jobs.

Kohtaolover
05-29-06, 01:56
Please dont be so hard on Catmonger he is just suffering from being in the United States for too long. He really just wants what all of you want. You all just sit back and judge others like you are all kings of the castle. I have spent long durations of time in Thailand. I have chased so much jim in Thailand its scary. I did not have to frequent bars or pey on little university students to do it I met plenty of normal women all over the country.

I really dont look them as sex objects, as I did at first, I look at them as the strange combination of a woman and a child they are. For that I love them.

I met a wonderful woman there and fell in love and married her we are together and happy and its getting better. I have one thing to say to all the guys who think Thai women are so iffy at best I guess if you go looking for a wife in a bar then you are looking in the wrong place. I met so many great women in other places and I love what I found and fell in love with as we wait for our first child to be born.

I am not a sap. I have a great respect for the Thai culture and the mystery of Thai women.

I do have it good and lucked out when i met my Thai wife. I wish for catmonger and all of you to experience that but maybe looking somewhere else for a wife is a better Idea. HAHAHAHAHA and save the bars for fun

Steve Naive
05-29-06, 13:51
I get to Bangkok a few times per year. I met a lady at a Nana bar in January. Liked her service a lot; saw her two nights in a row the first time, a week later one more time. On returning in May I took her out another time. As Thai girls go, she is plain+, a bit older than some (but I'm not young either). My experience is that the most beautiful girls generally give rushed, professional service, and plainer girls (in Thailand) can be a lot of fun - unrushed service and with snogging - if they like me.

I have always had to pay barfine plus her ST fee (600+1400). What I get in return is a (very) LT with a very affectionate lady who bathes me in a pleasing way, sucks/licks me everywhere until I make her stop (I don't pop that way). Once she did that for more than an hour. I enjoy screwing with her too and after all that foreplay I generally don't last long. Aside from the sex, I genuinely enjoy hanging out with her. She is very cheerful and pleasant to be with, and I really like her.

If I enjoy a girl, I like repeat encounters, as I know what to expect, and sometimes it is even better since we know each other.

She can't read English, but we email through an interpreter on her end. Early on she told me of her dreams to find someone to take care of her and family, which I take to mean she hoped I might marry her, but I got honest with her about that.

I know that she has 2 kids in Korat that her mom takes care of. She says she does not go with a lot of guys, and judging by her momasan's comments, I think that is true.

So now, after visit #4, she pops the question: THB5000 for a birthday present so she can visit mom and others? She works all the time and hasn't been home for birthday in 10 years. I assume that the reason she needs so much money is to fly, because she can't take off too many days as would be needed to go by bus.

Money in of itself is not a huge issue for me. The amount in question is far less than I might pay for poor service in most parts of US and Europe; while I'm not rich, I'm comfortable.

The question is this: what happens to the relationship if I send her the money, or if I don't?

If I give, she is somewhat in my debt, which can be a problem in any relationship. But I also become a supporter, and perhaps further requests come, and that spoils things.

If I don't give, and she thinks I could, then I risk losing her or souring things.

A third option is to go somewhere between... but the amount of money isn't really the question.

What I haven't figured out is what's in it for me if I decide to be generous. To some extent I feel like a good guy for making a poor girl happy. I may also feel a bit like a chump depending on what happens next time I see her. If I don't give, I probably feel mean, and could sour the fun from her perspective.

Last piece of info: she may well get out of the biz this year or next, in which case, she says, she may not be able to continue contact (and I understand why).

Interested in your thoughts.

1Ball
05-29-06, 13:59
Steve Naive, you probably will get a few responses on this one, so I'll keep it short.
If she is a WG, she most probably has the 5K saved up from working. if she hasn't got it saved up, she is in serious trouble, at her age, with 2 kids.

if you want to see her again, and feel like giving her the money, tell her to pay you back in 1/2 price bonks. See what she says to that. My thought is she won't like that idea. She most probably wants you to just hand it over, and expect nothing in return.
If you don't give her the money, and she snubs you, walk out of her bar, turn left, or turn right, and walk into the next bar. if you don't find a GFE in that bar, go to the next. Not trying to be a smart ass here, but chances are she is trying to milk you (and not in the way you want to be milked ;) )
Good luck.

Seydlitz
05-29-06, 15:37
If I read you well, there is a BG who has serviced you 4 times and asks you for a 5,000 Baht present and you ask us what to do. It is plain and simple. Just say no.

Thai people expect generosity from those they are dealing with. The concept is to give without having to and without expecting something in return. It is a beautiful concept, but one that leads to a lot of abuse. And decent Thai people never ask for anything.

The fact of being a bar girl has nothing to do with that. There are bar girls who will give you a good time year after year, will correspond with you through e-mail and SMS, and will never expect extra money from you. They might go through some hardship and might mention it to you. Then you will have to decide for yourself whether you want to help financially.

If you want to buy yourself a little experiment in Thai cultural behavior, you might send her 5,000 baht as an advance on future paid sex, and then see how she reacts. She might refuse, and you will have learnt something, or she might accept, and you will have a great time finding out at your next stay whether she will honor her part of the deal.

But by all means don't be a sucker and send the money. Thet is only going to lead to more requests for more money.

Retired Army
05-29-06, 19:18
If you want to be generous and show the girl that you like her, why not give her a couple thousand baht. That way she saves face and you probably can salvage the relationship. Believe me, she won't turn the money down.

Giotto
05-29-06, 19:28
Steve Naive,

I know the readership will kill me now.

I would simply give her the money, if I had a good time with her. If I didn't do it for her (may be because I were not sure that she rips me off) I would do that for me.

I would feel good if I can help her somehow.


Giotto

Sean_Double
05-29-06, 20:04
Steve,

I'll chime in with the wise Giotto on this one. If you found her company good and you want to keep up a relationship with her, why not? 5000bht isn't a lot of money if you're comfortable with it, and it sounds like you'd be doing her a big favor. However mercenary some BGs are, there are others who really do have a good heart, if you feel that she is one of the latter you might be making a mistake not to do it.

Be careful though. Let her know it's a one time deal and don't get the idea that you own her because you gave her 5000bht. A lot of the guys you see crying in their beer are doing so because they've dug themselves in a hole of continuing payments and didn't know when to cut their losses.

Cheers,
Sean

Chocha Monger
05-29-06, 20:41
Steve Naive,

After reading your story it is clear that your relationship with this prostitute is purely business. You always pay for her services so why are you even considering being magnanimous by sending her a monetary gift in an amount of two and a half times her usual fee?

I saw nothing in your post to indicate that this woman sees you any differently than any of her other clients. There were no free fucks or even a discounted rate. If she is plain and getting up in age then it is logical that she does not get many clients, hence she must seek out other means of bringing in more income. One way of doing this is to marry or to find a doting farang willing to send her regular "gifts" of cash.

The particular variation on the sick water buffalo story is irrelevant. The goal is always the same, to separate you from your money. You can bet cash money that this hooker has a herd of stupid old goats sending her money every month.

What's in it for you? Not a damn thing, except perhaps feeling like a jack-ass when you eventually realize that you've been conned. Of course, you can always rationalize this by telling yourself that your money went to some greater good. If you truly want to be a philanthropist, then the next time you see a shriveled stooping old Thai beggar on the street, reach into your pockets and hand him 5,000 baht. I assure you that you will feel much better about yourself than if you had given it to a bar girl.

Crypton
05-29-06, 22:30
SN,

I think you are in a no-win situation. If you give the money now, she will likely ask for more later and at that time you are likely to say no - the "relationship" will sour. If you say no now, it will go south as well. If you want to feel good about helping her out, I suggest giving 2000 baht or so - saying that is all you can afford. She won't lose face and you won't lose a lot of money (as Retited Army already suggested). Personally, I would say no and move on.

Cheers.

Retired Army
05-29-06, 23:40
I gave a girl 5,000 THB in a similar situation. Mother was sick or something like that. The next month she asked for 10,000. That's when I said no. She even offered me deeds to some land. The worst part of the whole situation was that she was the best piece of ass I have ever had.

Ozirob
05-30-06, 08:01
Many experienced people here agree that it's stupid to pay the money. It probably is!

However, i find that can be part of the fun and part of the whole experience to be seeing how good or bad your judgement is. So for me, handing over 5,000 would just be an excercise in seeing what happens. I would write the money off totally, not expect anything in return. If she moves on to another request i just cut her off.

Don't flame me now, but I can recall (i think i wrote about it in the Singapore thread) once giving S$1000 to a Thai girl i had known for a couple of years. She had never asked for anything, but asked for this - something to do with a "money game", and it would be repaid within 24 hours.

I figured i would spend that money over the next week with her anyway, so it would just mean that she wouldn't get paid afterwards as was usual.

Yes, I got it all back next day! And it seemed that it became known amongst other girls that i'd backed her for the 1000, as they treated me differently in the OT bars after that.

By the way, i happened to see the whole bundle of money that she had, and it seemed to be huge - at least 10 times the S$1000. I never could get an understanding of what the "game" was all about.

And, the girl really did treat me better still after that (something more towards a reliable friend), and has never asked for a thing since. I got the biggest buzz out of getting that judgement right! Or was that just relief that the money came back? :-)

Ozirob

Steve Naive
05-30-06, 15:36
Gentlemen,

Thanks very much for taking the time to provide thoughtful feedback. Even though the opinions run in opposite directions, I agree with all of you in your reasoning.

At some point I will follow up on what I decide, and what I learn from this experience, either way.

Any other comments are also welcome.

Steve

JuiceSpike
05-30-06, 18:34
You wrote: "The question is this: what happens to the relationship if I send her the money, or if I don't?"

It depends. First define the "relationship" thing you have with her then make a decision based on that. If you don't send her the money would she stop seeing you? Would she stop taking your long time fee money and bar fine? Probably not. I can almost guarantee you she considers you a biz relationship.

Now, if you are feeling generous and want to help her out then send her more than 5K. Or, you can send her the money as an advance for future encounters, for example 5K would get you about 3 LT plus tip with her. She won't go for this one though. :D

One simple trick many bar girls have is that they have birthdays every day of the week so they can pitch customers.

Bottom line is do whatever the fuck you want to do with your money and if you don't have anything else to spend 5K then send her the mula with a "happy birthday" note...

juices

The Traveler
05-31-06, 22:38
Steve Naive,

if it makes you feel good and if you don't mind the money then just give it to her.
No big deal, don't make it too complicated. She will be grateful which might boost your next encounter. If she only tries to mill you than just remember that you always paid for ST but got very long LT as you said. All in all you will just pay her the money that you have saved before and will get a good feeling plus a good karma in exchange for it.

Steve Naive
06-01-06, 04:34
When in Thailand, I tend to think of monetary value in terms of the Baht. 5000 Baht seems like a LOT of money - in terms of what it buys in Thailand.

But outside of Thailand, US$136 doesn't seem like a big deal. For example last night I (over?)paid in the amount of 1000RMB (4700 Baht) for a lady in Beijing. I could easily find a suitable partner for 400RMB or even less, but somehow I thought this was going to be a nicer LT encounter. In the end, it was just another ST rushed service. I don't feel like a chump about it; most encounters outside of Thailand have been the same: too much money for only fair service. (I love it that in BKK the norm has been attentive and friendly service... the lower price is nice, too, but it's secondary to satisfaction.)

So like Trav says, it really isn't such a big deal -- to me -- and I plan to do it without making a big deal -- just send it with a simple "happy birthday" and see what happens. Another request from her too soon might have me looking in the next bar, though.

I was thinking more about whether it was a big enough deal to her to change the dynamic of the relationship. Have you ever loaned money to a friend? It changes the balance in the friendship, and I don't recommend it. "Neither a borrower nor a lender be" (Ben Franklin) does not quite apply to the birthday present, since I consider it a write-off, but it's close.

So I plan to go ahead and make the gift... if I can figure out how.

She suggested Western Union - which adds 1027 Baht to the cost to me - but they would not accept a transfer originating in China for an American account.

If the lady has a Thai bank acct, and expat friend can make the deposit and I can easily send him money electronically when I get home.

Anyone got any ideas on how to get her money, quickly, if she does not have a bank acct, that can be executed from China? If not, she'll get it from me when I get back to US, via WU, but maybe not in time for her birthday.

Hey Trav - I think you're someone I have chatted with a few years back - good to hear from you again, and thanks for your comments.

Asshole Big
06-01-06, 09:01
I gave a girl 5,000 THB in a similar situation. Mother was sick or something like that. The next month she asked for 10,000. That's when I said no. She even offered me deeds to some land. The worst part of the whole situation was that she was the best piece of ass I have ever had.The best piece of ass I have ever had.

Yes but later you get some better its 100% sure.

Best Regards A.Big

The Traveler
06-01-06, 20:05
If the lady has a Thai bank acct, and expat friend can make the deposit and I can easily send him money electronically when I get home.

Steve Naive,

I bet that she has a bank account (usually savings), never met any girl that hadn't one.
So just call and ask her to get the following infos :

- her real Thai name
- bank account number
- bank branch

Forward these infos to your expat friend who can then transfer the money to her, the fee is 0,1%, so for 5000 baht it will be just an additional 5 baht.

You can also easily transfer the money to her directly, you only need the SWIFT code of the bank :

BKKBTHBK = Bangkok Bank (in Thai "Tanakaan Krung Thep")
KASITHBK = Thai Farmers Bank (in Thai "Tansakaan Kasikorn Thai")
SICOTHBK = Siam Commercial Bank (in Thai "Thai Panit")

If she has an account at a different bank you can search the appropriate SWIFT code here, but remember that the branch is often encoded in the SWIFT BIC code, therefore choose the correct branch :

http://www.swift.com/biconline/

1Ball
06-01-06, 22:05
Steve Naive, again, not wanting to rain on your parade, but how come she knows about Western Union ? Could it be she has done this before ?Could it be 4 other guys are planning on sending her 5K?
sorry, do what you feel is right.
:(

Giotto
06-01-06, 22:17
Steve Naive, again, not wanting to rain on your parade, but how come she knows about Western Union ? Could it be she has done this before ?Could it be 4 other guys are planning on sending her 5K?
sorry, do what you feel is right.
:(1Ball,

Sorry to say that, but I think in this case you are very right. I already sent 5 k. Did you, too?

Giotto

1Ball
06-01-06, 23:40
Giotto, I am sending The Duck 25,000 US$ as a wedding gift.
after all, she gave me a gift.......
(sorry boys, inside joke)

The Traveler
06-02-06, 21:41
Steve Naive, again, not wanting to rain on your parade, but how come she knows about Western Union ? Could it be she has done this before ?Could it be 4 other guys are planning on sending her 5K?
sorry, do what you feel is right.
:(
1ball,

I do know about Western Union but have never used it and nobody is sending me 5K :(
I wonder why so many guys believe that Thais are stupid.

Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if others are sending 5K too. Steve Naive received several LT for ST prices. He made a decision and feels good with it.
So may it be.

Nevertheless, I would like to know what kind of gift the Duck gave you.
I have an idea :) but hope it wasn't H5N1 (bird flu)

Mich69
06-02-06, 22:58
A thai lady is claiming that she became pregnant from me and threatens me with legal action. She even threatens me to trouble my family in a European country.
Does anyone know if there is any relevant law applicable which could support such proceeding? Does anyone have made similar experience?

Thanks for your advice.

Mike

Giotto
06-03-06, 05:36
1ball,

I do know about Western Union but have never used it and nobody is sending me 5K :(
I wonder why so many guys believe that Thais are stupid.The Traveler,

come on, man, if a BG from Isaan knows about Western Union it is MOST LIKELY that she used its service already...you don't learn about WU in the primary schools in Thailand.

I don't want to discuss the question whether Thais are stupid or not ( there was an report in the Bangkok Post last year, in which the average IQ of Thai people was published: 87 ) , this is more a question of experiencing the necessity to transfer money from foreign countries into Thailand, and finding a solution how to do it. And of course those BGs find solutions for that problem.


Giotto

Chocha Monger
06-03-06, 07:29
All this talk about financing and establishing relationships with Thai hookers sounds like Deep Wet all over again.

Sean_Double
06-03-06, 16:57
i don't want to disagree with anyone about how smart thais are or the liklihood of bgs getting payments from lots of guys, but just because a girl knows about western union means nothing. the nuts and bolts of how bgs get remittances is common lore in thailand; if a girl from isaan didn't know about it the day she arrived in bkk, she would have learned about it within a few days of bar work or just from talking to her friends or co workers. the issue of intelligence aside, there is a grapevine among tgs that the cia can only dream of.
western union advertises a lot in thai and western media, dating sites etc, everyone knows what they are for. the same goes for an easy familiarity with bank routing numbers and smart codes. thai girls living in bkk or wherever use these frequently for their own purposes to send money to their families in the provinces.

cheers,
sean

The Traveler
06-04-06, 01:55
The Traveler,

come on, man, if a BG from Isaan knows about Western Union it is MOST LIKELY that she used its service already...you don't learn about WU in the primary schools in Thailand.

Giotto,

that might be true if she would stay in a remote hill-tribe region without any tv, radio, newspaper and so on. But even there tv sets can be found and guess what, it could have been in a soap opera or whatever.
Anyway, she moved to BKK and might have heard about it on tv, read it in the papers or heard about it from a friend. Or maybe she just walked by a Western Union branch and I guess she can read.

BTW, you don't learn about Western Union in european schools as well.

The Traveler
06-04-06, 01:59
A thai lady is claiming that she became pregnant from me and threatens me with legal action. She even threatens me to trouble my family in a European country.
Does anyone know if there is any relevant law applicable which could support such proceeding? Does anyone have made similar experience?

Thanks for your advice.

Mike
Mike,

if you are the father of the child - which means you had unprotected intercourse (stupid you, ever heard of HIV and VDs ?) - she has a very strong legal position. If she is smart enough she can even manage that the government of your home country will pay a lawyer for her and assist her in a lawsuit against you.

Why not make a DNA test to see if you are really the father ?
If no, you got final proof and settled all further claims.
If yes, I hope you are man enough and take care of your kid.

Retired Army
06-04-06, 02:10
A thai lady is claiming that she became pregnant from me and threatens me with legal action. She even threatens me to trouble my family in a European country.
Does anyone know if there is any relevant law applicable which could support such proceeding? Does anyone have made similar experience?

Thanks for your advice.

Mike

Insist on a DNA test and see how she reacts. This is nothing new and many girls use this scam. Always use a condom.

Terry Terrier
06-04-06, 05:34
The Traveler,

come on, man, if a BG from Isaan knows about Western Union it is MOST LIKELY that she used its service already...you don't learn about WU in the primary schools in Thailand.

I don't want to discuss the question whether Thais are stupid or not ( there was an report in the Bangkok Post last year, in which the average IQ of Thai people was published: 87 ) , this is more a question of experiencing the necessity to transfer money from foreign countries into Thailand, and finding a solution how to do it. And of course those BGs find solutions for that problem.


Giotto

You seem to be making a rather large habit of offering opinions and 'facts' and refusing to discuss them, Giotto. Just like somebody else who recently stopped posting. At least he didn't have making money from the forum at the top of his agenda.....

Giotto
06-04-06, 05:39
You seem to be making a rather large habit of offering opinions and 'facts' and refusing to discuss them, Giotto. Just like somebody else who recently stopped posting. At least he didn't have making money from the forum at the top of his agenda.....Terry Terrier,

I don't get your message. I cannot discuss the issue whether Thais are stupid or not, I found it stupid to even discuss it. But I know about that average IQ report in Bangkok Post last year.

What's wrong with what I said?


Giotto

Giotto
06-04-06, 05:48
Giotto,

that might be true if she would stay in a remote hill-tribe region without any tv, radio, newspaper and so on. But even there tv sets can be found and guess what, it could have been in a soap opera or whatever.
Anyway, she moved to BKK and might have heard about it on tv, read it in the papers or heard about it from a friend. Or maybe she just walked by a Western Union branch and I guess she can read.

BTW, you don't learn about Western Union in european schools as well.The Traveler,

My family in Germany had a TV, too, when I was young, but I did not know anything about Western Union. The funny thing is, that I learned about Western Union from a Cambodian woman who wanted me to transfer money...May be this causes a kind of prejudice in this case.

But another question to the specialists: It was mentioned here that even Thais are using Western Union to transfer money within Thailand. I thought up to now that Western Union ONLY transfers in US $, that means, that the sender had to pay twice for currency conversion fees. That's a lot of money!

Due to the fact that the Western Union is connected to the Bank of Ayutthaya in Thailand, whouldn't those bank employees have recommended to any money sender to directly use the electronic transfer service of the Thai banks instead of using Western Union?

WU is normally only needed if the receipient has no bank account.


Giotto

Terry Terrier
06-04-06, 05:54
Terry Terrier,

I don't get your message. I cannot discuss the issue whether Thais are stupid or not, I found it stupid to even discuss it. But I know about that average IQ report in Bangkok Post last year.

What's wrong with what I said?


Giotto

'cannot discuss', 'stupid to even discuss it'

'there was an report in the Bangkok Post last year, in which the average IQ of Thai people was published: 87'

If you don't want to 'discuss' subjects then don't 'discuss' them. It's that fucking simple. Btw, you have a thread.

Giotto
06-04-06, 05:57
Just like somebody else who recently stopped posting. At least he didn't have making money from the forum at the top of his agenda.....Terry Terrier,

I just read this again. Do you seriously want to compare my report style with that one from Domino?


Giotto

Terry Terrier
06-04-06, 22:46
Terry Terrier,

I just read this again. Do you seriously want to compare my report style with that one from Domino?


Giotto

It pertains to posters who have agendas other than to simply share experiences and info. I doubt many posters outside of your existing clients will want to see this section turned into 'Giotto's Club'. As I have already stated, you have a thread.

Freeler
06-05-06, 07:41
Terry,

You have a point.

Giotto,

Terry has a point.

Fun Times69
06-05-06, 14:22
I'm a member who often reads, but unfortunately does not have the same opportunities to post reports as some might have. I remember how invaluable the forum was in helping me plan my first trip to BKK almost 6 years ago and thank all those who share their invaluable experience with those of us who would can only dip our toes in the water every now and then.

I enjoy reading both your reports. You are both very different people with different writing styles and that is what makes the forum the fantastic resource that it is.

If you get pissed off with anyones reports. Buy yourself a beer and ponder for just a few moments, does it matter? Of course not!

Thank you so much for your reports. Thank you both so much for sharing your knowledge. Maybe you'll let me buy you a beer sometime.

JuiceSpike
06-05-06, 21:49
Hmmm, I never thought about Giotto's main interest and motivation for posting in here was to make money..Duh. I'm having a slow day... Of course it is.

One of the great things about this forum is that no one is trying to sell you something. That has changed. The fact that Giotto has his own thread for the purpose to sell entertainmen or something like that and making it appealing for mongers to visit his lodge it feels to me like I'm reading a long drawn out ad campaign. I know, I can always skip it. I do most of the time. What makes it different though is that his thread is really not a discussion section but more like a chat room with inside jokes, and where a little click is forming to promote others to be in it. I never liked fraternities in college and it feels like that to me. Some of the content in there borders the gossip line with mundane topics, feel good stories which seem fake but who knows maybe they are true.

I have nothing against a guy trying to make a living but wondering if this is is the right place to do it. Does Jackson get more $ for the loadge thread? Who cares... The beauty of this forum is that is for guys to exchange ideas, discussions, and even fights but not for the purpose to sell me something.

Giotto is good at making his pitch: if you don't go there you are missing out. I don't think so. For some guys the lodge might be the best thing it ever happen to them. On the public service side, maybe Giotto can start a "treatment" program for newbies about to lose their heads under the influence of sweet cunning skank. Or maybe donate some of the profits to a charity... :D

Juices

Old Thai Hand
06-06-06, 01:40
Hmmm, I never thought about Giotto's main interest and motivation for posting in here was to make money..Duh. I'm having a slow day... Of course it is.

One of the great things about this forum is that no one is trying to sell you something.

Juices

There seems to be a small, but growing chorus of criticism rising up against Mr. G.......Why?

He's never been anything but honest and straight forward about his intentions. He's had universal praise from everyone who has enjoyed his company and his lodge. Who gives a shit whether his board is commerically-driven, folksy, inside and clique-ish, a little too feel-good, or whatever? That is actually the true nature of Livingstone's. He hasn't paid for the testimonials from patrons. They are genuine and heartfelt. The guy is the "real deal". There's no bull-shit about him. As a result, he has made a lot of friends among both veterans and newbies who have enjoyed his hospitality in one way or another.
Afterall, isn't the purpose of this board to share information, including information about places to stay that provide quality service, a safe environment and a pleasant experience? I think any number of visitors to LOS, especially newbies appreciate having somewhere to go that they can trust. Both Livingstone's and Giotto, himself have had nothing but positive feedback.

So, I simply don't get it.

It seems to me that there are few little boys fighting over the use of the sandbox here. As your Mommy always said, "Play nice."

P.S. (G...Is that enough, or do you want me to write more? Is the wine chilled? Do I get free ribs now? or, better yet...can I have Fon, now that she no longer loves Piper?)....oh, sorry...more "insider" jokes.

Brain666
06-06-06, 02:33
Hmmm, I never thought about Giotto's main interest and motivation for posting in here was to make money..Duh. I'm having a slow day... Of course it is.

Juices


It pertains to posters who have agendas other than to simply share experiences and info. I doubt many posters outside of your existing clients will want to see this section turned into 'Giotto's Club'. As I have already stated, you have a thread.

Hey guys it seems that some of you are a bit jealous about Giotto's success.

I don't know him and also don't know the Livingston’s, but I was reading his comments on this thread, the 'Thai Women -Opinions & Advise' thread.

In this thread he was doing nothing else then to give his opinion to the purpose of this thread, talking about Western union and talking about marriage and I could not see from his comments here, that he was promoting his Livingston’s there.

That is ok in my opinion. I think some of you see too much in every single word a promotion as done in the Giotto’s lodge thread.

The Lodge thread however was clearly set up to promote the lodge with the support and in line with Jackson. (See his opening words). So any style there is ok. And if there is growing community of insiders who use it more in chat room style it’s the outcome of their adventures. I read it, even if I can’t understand all, but nobody needs to read it.

But if you attack him here in this thread for his promotion, which is in my opinion not justified given his comments here in this tread, the risk is that this thread turns around into another Giotto thread and this time you yourself caused it.

So I would appreciate, that if you want to criticize Giotto, use his own Giotto Tread for this and I would advise Giotto to comment on this criticism here only in his thread as well.

In this way we can keep the purpose of this thread:
'Thai Women -Opinions & Advise'

Thanks guys :p :p I would appreciate you cooperation. :p :p

regards

Brain666

JuiceSpike
06-06-06, 03:15
oth,

perhaps you simply don't get a lot of things. it's funny that you feel compelled to defend giotto when he actually does not need to be. i think he is doing a good thing for himself and his customers and i have nothing but wishing him good luck as i have before in his thread. but if my opinion about the direction of the board is upsetting you are not getting the point of my post. not surprise there...:)

i will spell it out for you:

i don't like the board going commercial. get it? i don't like the pitching a product or a service on a daily basis. it's just my opinion. i'm glad to see some guys enjoying his place and glad to see him filling up the rooms. this forum was intended to remain uncommercial, a public forum for no other reasons than to exchange info, etc., and not a place to pitch a bar, restaurant, lodge with a specific thread and a commercial agenda... it is a different approach to what the initial board was intended to be. maybe it is not. i'm not losing sleep over this either. :d

why some of you guys are getting all touchy and sensitive to opinions and some criticism? are we not all part of this community? some discussion is good, eh?

i'm done with my speech.

juices

JuiceSpike
06-06-06, 03:22
Yo, check this out... In the past few months you only have about 4 posts in the Thai section and now you want to direct traffic in here? :D

Welcome to the Thai board bestard...

juices

Old Thai Hand
06-06-06, 03:40
oth,

perhaps you simply don't get a lot of things. it's funny that you feel compelled to defend giotto when he actually does not need to be. i think he is doing a good thing for himself and his customers and i have nothing but wishing him good luck as i have before in his thread. but if my opinion about the direction of the board is upsetting you are not getting the point of my post. not surprise there...:)

i will spell it out for you:

i don't like the board going commercial. get it? i don't like the pitching a product or a service on a daily basis. it's just my opinion. i'm glad to see some guys enjoying his place and glad to see him filling up the rooms. this forum was intended to remain uncommercial, a public forum for no other reasons than to exchange info, etc., and not a place to pitch a bar, restaurant, lodge with a specific thread and a commercial agenda... it is a different approach to what the initial board was intended to be. maybe it is not. i'm not losing sleep over this either. :d

why some of you guys are getting all touchy and sensitive to opinions and some criticism? are we not all part of this community? some discussion is good, eh?

i'm done with my speech.

juices


i get it. i just don't agree with it. that's the true nature of the board. to agree to disagree. also, personal slurs against me, as mild as yours are, still remain beneath one as apparently savvy and intelligent as yourself.

JuiceSpike
06-06-06, 03:57
First, thanks for the "savvy and intelligent as yourself" remark. :)

Then I want to apologize for the subtle but mild slur...

You are, I must say, a true diplomat.

juices

Old Thai Hand
06-06-06, 04:06
You are, I must say, a true diplomat.

juices

LOL. I know you're speaking metaphorically (see, I do get it). But, don't say that! I already have someone questioning whether I really am a university teacher or just a wannabe. Now, they'll be asking, "Well what is he, a teacher or a diplomat?" You know how easily confused some can get on this board.

Brain666
06-06-06, 05:00
Yo, check this out... In the past few months you only have about 4 posts in the Thai section and now you want to direct traffic in here? :D

Welcome to the Thai board bestard...

juices

once everyone was a first timer in Thailand.

My first trip will be in August I guess.

I am planning to find a nice beautiful Thai girl from the north of Thailand in Bangkok for immediate marriage. Condition: She shouldn't have had sex with more then 5 other guys before.

regards

Brain666

Giotto
06-06-06, 05:56
...
I am planning to find a nice beautiful Thai girl from the north of Thailand in Bangkok for immediate marriage. Condition: She shouldn't have had sex with more then 5 other guys before.

regards

Brain666Brain666,

hmmm, you could encounter some technical problems there. The girls usually don't have something like a "hit counter".


Giotto

Dinghy
06-06-06, 06:35
gee Brain, what's the measurement basis - a "diameter" check? Maybe a "depth gage"?

5... ROFLMAO

Retired Army
06-06-06, 08:27
I am planning to find a nice beautiful Thai girl from the north of Thailand in Bangkok for immediate marriage. Condition: She shouldn't have had sex with more then 5 other guys before.


Is that five guys in one night? How well she speaks English determines how long she has been in the business.

If you want to meet some nice Issan girls I have a friend who lives in Udorn who would be happy to fix you up. One might say they are a "little rough around the edges." But with a little work they would make fine wives.

Retired Army
06-06-06, 08:30
I don't like the board going commercial. Get it? I don't like the pitching a product or a service on a daily basis.
juices

I have to agree with Juices. What next, car dealers and condo salesmen?

Old Thai Hand
06-06-06, 09:17
I have to agree with Juices. What next, car dealers and condo salesmen?

Well....in keeping with the spirit of the board....I do know a BG at Rainbow II who has a condo for sale on Rama 4. She asked me if I knew anybody. I will get a fee.

RA
is that what you were talking about? LOL

Brain666
06-06-06, 09:30
Is that five guys in one night? How well she speaks English determines how long she has been in the business.

If you want to meet some nice Issan girls I have a friend who lives in Udorn who would be happy to fix you up. One might say they are a "little rough around the edges." But with a little work they would make fine wives.


once everyone was a first timer in Thailand.

......
I am planning to find a nice beautiful Thai girl from the north of Thailand in Bangkok for immediate marriage. Condition: She shouldn't have had sex with more then 5 other guys before.

regards

Brain666

ok, sorry, before this board gets so much serious.

This was not meant sooo serious.
I expected that an Issan girl in Bangkok and 5 guys only is not an available availabe anyhow.

So the 5 guys in one night would be probably more true.
So forget further serious comments

sorry again

regards

Brain666

Seeko
06-06-06, 14:29
I am planning to find a nice beautiful Thai girl from the north of Thailand in Bangkok for immediate marriage. Condition: She shouldn't have had sex with more then 5 other guys before.
Now, I'm sure I've met you in real life and swapped stories. That's the same condition I have for future ex-GF/wives.
I also hate virgins and in-experienced ones. I'm not a teacher. I am a client with needs and demands. ;)

Seeko

Catmonger
06-12-06, 05:27
gee Brain, what's the measurement basis - a "diameter" check? Maybe a "depth gage"?

5... ROFLMAO
I have a combo tool for that, caliper/depth gague. You do want it in CM correcto?

PosterLion
06-13-06, 18:53
Here is a legitimate gift for you guys. It's a small poem I just cooked up that is more than a little steeped in Thai culture, something I know nothing about. ;)

===

the rabbit cries for the moon each night
and is considered unworthy by those who
think the moon is unreachable

how sad for this world when there are those
who don't know: the moon rises each night
because it loves the rabbit

for nothing is lonlier than the unreachable
except for those who never reach

===

Use it on your would-be girlfriends. Your mileage my vary. :)

One day I'll translate it into Thai, but right now I'm too busy F-U-C-K-I-N-G like a rabbit! ;)

later
post

PosterLion
06-22-06, 19:05
Short Background info (originally posted in the Giotto Thread)

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=473513&postcount=964

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=474520&postcount=1016

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=474607&postcount=1017

Okay . . .

We've met. We've had our HIV tests. We're going to Hua Hin on Saturday for a romantic getaway. Yes sir! It's Official! Poster has a new girlfriend! :) :) :)

What else??? Oh yeah! For those that are curious, I did buy her a new mobile phone: Motorola C168 - 3,500 Baht.

It's the real deal. She took me to dinner after shopping for her phone at a japanese cafe and she paid the 750 Baht tab. Granted, 750 Baht is much less than what I shelled out for the phone, but it's the thought that counts right? :)

Just like today. We went to Bumrungrad hospital for the mandatory HIV test and it cost 2,900 Baht for the one hour service. Ashamedly, I told her I only had 1,400 Baht. She whipped out her billfold and said, "Never mind. I take care of you today and you take care of me in Hua Hin."

As we walked out of the hospital she said, "Next time we come for a pregnancy test."

What!!!! As I said . . . It's official. Poster has a new girlfriend.

We decided to go to Foodland from Bumrungrad and buy something to cook for dinner. On the way I pulled her into Gulliver's because I wanted to drink a celebratory beer because our HIV tests were negative. It's nice to have a negative HIV test but this time it was much much more than nice. In essence, it meant:

NO MORE CONDOMS! EVER!

What!!!! As I said . . . It's official. Poster has a new girlfriend.

After the beers it was time to pay the tab. Doh!!! Again . . . I forgot! No money!

She smiled and pulled out her billfold, "Don't worry darling, my money is your money and your money is my money."

Doh! Doh! and double Doh!

What!!!! As I said . . . It's official. Poster has a new girlfriend

poster . . .

The Traveler
06-22-06, 19:18
oth,

let me answer your theory - that girls move into prostitution because of their laziness - by that little story below which should tell why many - if not most - of the girls choose that way and how they may see it.

i moved it into this section, because i believe this is the appropriate section for it. not the pattaya section where we started off to discuss this issue.

this little story could happen anywhere else at any time and in fact the very same story happens everywhere in this beautiful country of los and even around the globe with only minor changes.


once upon a time there was a girl born into a poor family somewhere in isaan. she grew up like most other girls grow up there. but since her parents were poor, they couldn't afford to send her to school more than 6yrs ("bo hok") or 9yrs ("mo sam"). she would have loved to finish school at the 12th grade ("mo hok"), but her parents hadn't have enough money for the school dress, the school books and all the other materials you need. she also had to take care of her younger brothers and sisters and also had to help her parents seeding and bringing in the harvest.

at the age of 17 she met a guy who she fell in love with and who promised to marry her. but when she finally got pregnant he lost interest in her and left her for another girl. now she got a baby which she had to take care of. she tried her best and raised it as good as she could. but babies need food, clothes and get sick from time to time. so she borrowed some money for the doctor and those expensive medicine.

and there was also this family debt, which was some time ago caused by

- the need to seed again because the crop on the fields was destroyed by heavy rain
- a drought which resulted in a bad harvest
- rotten harvest due to heavy rain during harvest
- a severe illness and the high medical bills of a family member
- an accident
- a flood which damaged their house and most of their belongings

or anything else that could happen. you name it.

nevertheless, her parents needed to borrow some money and gave their land title deed ("chanut") as guarantee.
the interest rate of 2-3% per month for short-term, and 3-5% per month for long-term debt caused their debt to grow fast from month to month and they still struggle to pay at least some part of the interest on a regular basis. they know that they will loose their land - which is the only valuable thing they own - when their debt reaches a certain amount which is covered by the above mentioned guarantee.

the girl is looking for work, to support her baby and the family. but she can't find any decent work as there is none. so she takes her last money and moves into the bigger towns like korat and bangkok to find some work. she would like to work in an office but since she left school so early and since many of the teachers upcountry aren't very qualified and often give shit about what they teach to the kids, she wasn't qualified for it or at least their potential employers believed that.

so she couldn't find an office job. she manages to get a job at a factory. she is used to work hard and is happy to have finally found something, because she already ran out of money some time ago. her job doesn't pay well, just 4.000 baht a month, but now she can pay her room rent, the utilities (water and electricity) and her food. there are still a few baht left that can be send home if she doesn't spend anything for herself.

but after a couple of months or years she can't or doesn't want to stand those 10 hours shifts 6 days a week anymore in that heat of 40+ degrees celsius. the thinner and other toxic substances that vapour in the air of the factory are taking their toll on her health too.

she had heard that better money could be made in pattaya. why live like a slave who can't get out of this endless circle of poverty and debt ? so she decides to quit and move to pattaya to work in a bar. there was a girl in her village, who told her that good money could be made and that she might be hired at the very same bar. but things don't work out as expected. the bar only pays 1500-2500 a month plus a few baht tip and those tips largely depend on the number of customers and now it's rainy season with less customers.

her mom just called and told her that her baby is sick. she needs some money to see a doctor. pay-day is still a few weeks ahead and she has already borrowed from her friends who don't have much themselves and have to take care their own responsibilities. how to get some money quick ?

there is a way out of that situation. customers sometimes asked her to go with them but she had refused so far. but now she will do it, she would do everything for her baby. so she agrees to go with the next customer who asked her. he is old, a bit fat and sweats a lot, but at least she might earn some money to send home for her baby.

that was the first step into that business and she saw that indeed some money could be made this way. she isn't very beautiful, rather average but there are guys who are willing to pay a few baht to have sex with her. so she moved on and it became some sort of routine, even though she never got used to be touched and fucked by old fat smelly guys.

true, there have been nice and good looking guys in between. like the one who told her that he loves her and made lot of promises. ok, he hadn't not much money and stayed at her place only paying for food and drinks. but he said that he will pay her at the end of his journey. she believed it until the day when he had send her to the market to buy some fruits. when she returned he was gone and all he left were the bills for water and electricity, no goodbye and no money as agreed. from that day on she promised herself to never believe a customer again.

later on she heard that the salary at a gogo is much better than in a bar, 4500 - 8000 baht a month, depending on additional tasks like lesbian/sex shows and so on. so why not move there, no need to solely depend on the amount and generousity of the customers. especially during rainy season she often didn't earn enough money to pay her bills. that was the reason why she came to work at this gogo. but sadly nobody told her that she gets fined for everything like being late even only a few minutes, not getting enough lady drinks and/or barfines, which all reduces her monthly salary.

she had been sick the last few days and got fined 600 baht (or in other words had to pay her own barfine) for each day she couldn't work. she is still sick tonight but can't afford to loose even more money. it's fucking cold in here, because the management believes that all those fat farangs want it that cold. she would like to wear long pants and a sweater but she must wear a bikini. nevertheless, she has to dance all night long, even though her feet hurt from the high heel boots she has to wear, ordered by the management. she got headaches, but the music plays as loud as ever. oh, what a night !

it's close to 2am, when a guy enters the gogo and orders a drink. he calls her over. he is ugly, fat, sweats, drunken and smokes a lot and therefore smells like a drunken ashtray. but she needs the money. her room rent is overdue and her landlord will lock her room with all her belongings inside if she can't pay the rent by tomorrow. she would have no place to stay and couldn't even change her clothes. it's rainy season with only a few customers and due to staying home because of her illness, she got no customers for several days. she already brought all her valuables including her mobile phone to the pawn shop to pay for due bills. she got no choice.

so she moves over, smiles and talks to this guy. he doesn't order a drink for her but wants to paw her breasts and butt. he obviously is waiting for closing time to save the barfine. oh jesus, again a cheap charlie. he asks if she wants to come with him. "of course not, but i have to, i need the money" she thinks and says yes. but she wants to know how much he will give her and he answers 1.000 st. she wants 2.000 baht but he insists, 1.000 st is the going rate. she thinks, "yes, 1000 st is the going rate for a young handsome guy who makes me laugh and treats me well, but not for a fat sweaty smelly guy like you !". but she has no choice, she needs the money tonight. so they wait until the gogo closes and head to his hotel.

on their way to the hotel he keeps grabbing her butt and breasts. he peeps into her shirt to see her breasts and even tries to put his hand under her shirt and skirt so everybody can see her panties. she is shy and wants to tell him that this is inappropriate. doesn't he have any manners ? would he act like this back home in his own country ?

she would love to talk about things like the social and economical situation of farmers in los, the political system and the misuse of political power by those in charge or the lack of social security in her country. she would talk about any other issue like albert einstein's theory of relativity, a bit quantum physics or rocket science with this guy. but her english isn't well enough due to her lack of education and this guy is only able to talk "a bit" thai. furthermore he doesn't seem to be interested in talking about anything else but sex. this seems to be his only interest. she hasn't much education but isn't stupid, but those farangs seem to be so limited.

due to the lack of means to communicate about interesting things, she turns on the tv set and hopes that this guy might fall asleep. but he doesn't and complains about her looking tv. so she does what must be done. she takes a shower and waits in the bed until he comes out of the shower.

he wants her to give him a bbbj, she agrees to a blowjob but insists on a condom. his dick still smells like [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) (did he [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) after shower ?) and she knows about the risks involved with uncovered sex, that there will be some body fluids and semen even before he cums (guys, that's why a coitus interruptus isn't a foolproof system to avoid pregnancy). he makes a big fuzz out of it and threatens her to kick her out. again she has no choice, she needs the money.

later on he starts to fuck her. seems he is one of those guys who need to take some viagra to prove their manhood. he fucks her for a very long time not realizing or not caring that she isn't horny at all and her pussy is as dry as a desert. his condom causes a lot of friction as the lubricant on the surface has gone long ago, which hurts her. now he turns her around to take her doggy. this position hurts even more because he can enter even deeper and his dick is smashing against her uterus. she tells him it hurts "djep djep" but he doesn't care and moves even faster and harder thinking that it means she is horny as hell. he will later tell the other guys that thai girls love sex and like to get fucked by him, what a moron !

now he also starts to take some pics and videos. seems he needs to brag about his encounter in front of his friends or maybe he just needs some jerk-off material when being back home. he obviously loves his dick, it can be seen on most of his pics and video sequences.

then he again insists on a bbbj, she worries that he might force her into cim. she knows that hiv can be transmitted that way. his bodyfluids/semen in her mounth plus those tiny little microscopic injuries everybody has are a dangerous combination. and her fears become true, he locks her head in between his hands and cums into her mouth. she runs into the bathroom and wants to puke.

she takes a shower, gets dressed and is full of sorrows if this guy was infected and what deseases he might have transmitted. but now it's over and she wants to go home to sleep. she still has headaches and feels ill. so she asks for her money but the guy is a cheap charlie and only wants to pay 800 baht, saying that she complained too much, caused a lot of hassles when insisting on a condom and that she had her period but not telling him.

he had found some blood stains on his condom and is too ignorant to realize that he had fucked her sore and that he caused the bleeding by fucking her so hard from behind. she has no power to argue anymore, all she wants is to go home so she takes the money and leaves.

she calls herself lucky that this guy didn't try to force her into anal sex like the other guy did a few weeks ago. in this business you get frugal and learn to be grateful for tiny things.

on her way home she thinks about her life. she knows that there are guys out there who think that she lives a good life and earns easy money. but these guys obviously don't know what they talk about. they were born and brought up in a totally different environment, their families weren't poor and they lived in a country with social security. like this university professor, who keeps calling her being lazy. she would like to know if he could live under the same circumstances she had to live. being able to stay at her home upcountry with a thin mattress and a small blanket under a mosquito net. no aircon. or if he could work in the rice fields under the burning sun all day long. or if he could even stand a single day working in a gogo, fucking ugly guys she doesn't like. or if he could live on 4.000 baht a month, taking care of kids and family plus paying back some debt incl. interest. i guess he can't.


oth, does it sound like a dream job and easy earned money ?
you judge from a very comfortable position with 100.000 - 200.000 baht income per month plus free lodging, right ? ever thought how you came into this position and if you would be there if you would be born into a poor family in isaan ?

guess why so many girls change their character and end up as battle hardened pros, who often enough get drunk and take drugs just to forget their sorrows ? because it is such a fantastic job and easy money ?

think about it.

PosterLion
06-22-06, 22:05
A good many hookers are just lazy, choosing the easy, albeit larger income from hooking than they can make working in, say a factory for 4,000 baht/month. It doesn't make them noble, just opportunistic.

I've got no problem with your opinion on the possible and likely motive behind the decision many women make when deciding to become a prostitute. Indeed, the opportunistic approach is the very bedrock that western society is based on.

A few definitions:

WHAT IS CAPITALISM?

capitalism >noun an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

WHAT IS PROFIT?

profit >noun 1 a financial gain, especially the difference between an initial outlay and the subsequent amount earned. 2 advantage; benefit. >verb (profited, profiting) benefit, especially financially.

WHAT IS OPPORTUNISTIC?

opportunistic >adjective 1 exploiting immediate opportunities, especially in an unplanned or selfish way

WHAT IS SELFISH?

selfish >adjective concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure at the expense of consideration for others.

===

I'd say the above four definitions constitute an accurate summation of western society. That is why I've got no problems with you opinion.

We live in a society in which private entities thrive by exploiting opportunities for a profit, which is nothing more than giving less consideration than the consideration you receive. Or in other words, one mans loss is another mans gain, which is why I'm net short in the stock market at the present. :)

However, Traveler's romantic story has it's appeal and I am sure there are girls that could be a character in his novel, but I have yet to meet one. And even if I had, wouldn't a deprived farm girl helping her parents by becoming a prostitute (or a factory worker or an English teacher) also be opportunistic?


She had heard that better money could be made in Pattaya. Why live like a slave who can't get out of this endless circle of poverty and debt ? So she decides to quit and move to Pattaya to work in a bar.

This is pretty much the same reason I sold drugs to pay for room and board while in University. It sure beat getting minimum wage flipping burgers at McDonalds! ;)

I've never been a farmer, but I've done all kinds of different jobs from washing dishes to hauling heavy carpets around a 40 degree HOT warehouse to scrubbing parking lots. I got paid 50 cents an hour for scrubbing parking lots. So let me tell you, I've got empathy for the girl in your story by a factor of 100 million percent.

But as far as the thin mattress and mosquito net without any A/C goes: that is not so difficult as I've done that in Bangkok. I've also done it in the colder climates of North America as I've been without a room of my own before when I was 17 and had not yet decided to attend university, which was my way out of that life.

Sincerely,
poster

Chocha Monger
06-23-06, 00:43
PosterLion:

Congratulations on your new girlfriend. I certainly hope that you keep us informed/entertained with the latest developments in your relationship. I think that the chapter where you both return to the clinic for the pregnancy test would draw rave reviews, perhaps even cutting criticism from those who frown upon bareback sex when they are not one of the participants.

While getting a negative HIV test result is ecstatic, I am sure that there are those who would tell you that it is eclipsed by the emotion of getting a positive test result.

Old Thai Hand
06-23-06, 01:11
Traveler

Your story is largely apocryphal.

I stand by what I said before. You're a romantic fool, who despite what you've said about taking the girls for what they are, puts these girls on a pedestal and idolizes them. These girls are largely lazy, opportunistic and have taken the easy way out. I'm surprised that, with your attitude you haven't been taken to the cleaners by a few.

Oh, and BTW, I have worked under the blazing sun on a farm for 12 hours/day for minimum wage, slept on a thin mattress with no aircon. True that it was in the wilds of Canada, but same same. I got to where I am by hard work, doing many crappy, low-paying jobs in my early years to pay my way through school and to get a better life.

I've had many poor students from Isaan over the years who have done the same to improve their lot in life. They have worked hard at low-paying jobs, attended school part-time and improved their lives and taken care of their families, and still managed to avoid hooking because they valued their self-esteem above all.

Tiger 888
06-23-06, 01:41
In this life all is about education and being smart.

If the girls without education are smart enough to sell themselves a bit higher and give cheap charlies no chances, but on the other side give good service and are as honest as they can be, then they have the choice.

I met enough girls like that. The last one this year at NEP, she stayed with me for full 5 days, our agreement was 2000 LT plus barfine, fair for both of us. I didn't hear a single word of complain from her during all that time, she was happy and fun to be with. When I asked her if she needed taxi money or anything else, she would say: "No I can wait for the big money". So I paid and tipped her 1000 on the last day. She would even advance her barfine.

She was very clear on how far she would go (no BB, strictly no pics) and made that already clear when negociating the deal. She would not go with anyone who gave her the impression not to treat her well or can't behave either. In exchange she was the best GFE I had so far. And since I told her that I am married and can only be her shorttime BF, She also knew what to expect.

I told her that I am worried not to see her again, because she would soon find someone to marry (even though already 32).

Guess what, when I came back to see her after a few months, the first thing she told me is: "I am afraid next time I might not be able to se you again. I am waiting for my visa to Germany to get married."

I am not sure if that is a really smart move, but thats the way things go.

Piper1
06-23-06, 01:48
Traveler

Your story is largely apocryphal.

OTH -

Stop using big words - we already know you're smart. ;) Gotta say, you're not wrong, and Traveler's not wrong. Some girls take the WG path because it's easier, but some have no choice. I'd never say it's due to laziness - being a WG is a difficult job.

Meaty
06-23-06, 03:09
Traveler,
I've been living in Thailand several years now, partied away a lot of years at the start and never came across anyone claiming a story like that, sure, it 'could happen', but the reality is otherwise.
Your story is more likely a bar stool legend than a reality.
Becoming a WG is the easy money option.

and your post is forgetting the wonderful 30Baht medical services for everyone in Thailand, so if the baby was sick it would cost 30 baht for everything, the trouble is, the father in your story, if it were to be almost true, would rather spend 30 baht on laoKao and cigarretes and let the baby sweat out whatever sickness it had.

From my personal experiences visiting/living with Thai families in Issan, if they spent less money on cheap alcohol, cigarettes and Gik's/Mia Noi's they might not be so poor.

They were born unlucky, but so were the 10's of thousands who manage to work on building sites, in 7-11, in macdonalds etc, compared to that hard labour, being a WG is a piece of p*ss.

I love TG's i enjoy WG's as well, for what they are, P4P with GFE experience if you want it, but leave your 'i had no option' stuff at the door, there are ALWAYS options, but they might be a little harder than the 'easy route', more commonly known as the 'Thai route'

Tiger 888
06-23-06, 03:52
...I love TG's i enjoy WG's as well, for what they are, P4P with GFE experience if you want it, but leave your 'i had no option' stuff at the door, there are ALWAYS options, but they might be a little harder than the 'easy route', more commonly known as the 'Thai route'
Thats exactly the point. If you always go the easiest way, especially in Thailand, you will flow with the water and will not be recognized as a raindrop.
And if you are in a business with high competition you are always on the losers side if you are not outstanding.

And we can't save the world either. If we manage justice and fairness behind our doors at home, we are already achieving a lot.
So I would still want everyone to read Traveler's post as a hint to where we stand.

Member #3409
06-23-06, 05:29
Guys the story that the Traveler wrote isn't too far from the truth, but I think judging by the coments everyone is reading it on face value without looking at the underlying message. If you look a bit deeper he has exagerated a bit to make a point, but the point is probably as valid if not more valid than any comment I've seen since. What he has written is probably true of 90% of the hookers on this planet not just Thailand. I don't think he is putting them up on a pedestal but I do think it shows he has put himself in their shoes and shown some thought and respect for these girls, that is something we should all do from time to time.

I'll write a true story of a girl that I know. Yes from Udon Thani, Issan. She is the eldest child of a single mother of 3. The father pissed off after the 3rd child was born, never to be seen again. The sister is 2 years younger and the brother about 8. Mum cannot afford school so this girl must leave at around year 9. Works in village until she is 19 and then is SENT to Bangkok to make money of her own and to take care of the family, who by now have had to sell their shop and part of their land. Moves in with Aunty in Bangkok (yes blood relative aunty, not one of these Thai Aunties they all have) and gets a job working in shopping centres. Does that for a 2-3 years earning roughly 6000 baht per month, most of which is sent back to Issan, the aunty takes care of food and lodging. She finds a good Thai boyfriend and moves in with him. Mean while her younger sister moves to Bangkok at 18 and is introduced to the bargirl scene and becomes a very popular girl indeed.

She lives together with her Thai BF for a few years until she realises he is an arsehole, so at age 24 leaves him with 300 baht in her purse and heads to her sisters place. The sister, who by now has 4 years bargirl experiance including a few Farang boyfriends who "takes care" of her says why not come work with me, the money is good and hey you could meet a nice farang like I have. She works days in the bar for 6 months, the money is ok and she doesn't need to fuck, but after 6 months decides to become a night girl as the money is a little better.

As a night girl she knows if she goes to the bar everynight she will get 3500 baht per month plus drinks and tips, she doesn't need to go with guys, but after a month or so meets some nice ones that she would fuck anyway so starts to go away with them. The job is good, off you go with a nice guy, he pays for dinner, you go out dancing, drinking and then back to his place or hotel for a fuck, just like a girl in a night club most places in the world going home with a guy for a one night stand, but you are getting 3000baht for it.Some guys are nice and pay a lot more than the going rate of 3000.

At first it is only 1, 2 or 3 LT's a month, at 3000 a night, plus roughly 600 baht a night from tips and drinks, thats not bad money, about 25000+ a month. But hey as she becomes more confident she starts to see the value in going with guys that she used to turn down, afterall he is still going to pay for dinner, he gets her drunk and its only a fuck, isn't it?. Today she is up to 2 or 3 long times a week, and now earning 50,000+ baht a month. She has many regular customers, so doesn't need to meet many new ones, she only goes to the bar now to get pissed with her friends and maybe meet that once nice (read rich) farang who can take care how she dreams. That dream is like what her friend has, a nice house in Issan, a car, a bit of money each month and a boyfriend who only comes to Thailand 3 or 4 times a year.

I meet this girl about 14 months ago, which was 2 weeks after she became a night girl and she was a very shy nervous girl. As I said at first she didn't go out with customers, she was happy to stay in the bar, talk and drink, and this bar doesn't force the girls to go, so long as the customers are coming and buying drinks. I spent most nights for a week just drinking and talking to her, I wasn't there looking for a girl (thats why I was in this bar), I had one at home who I was loyal to. I went back a few times over the next few months and always spent my nights in the bar with her and after finally getting rid of my Aussie girl I was happy to take a girl out. This girl really got me going. She was seriously the best girl I've ever had anywhere. I came back for a month about 3 weeks latter and she spent most of her time with me, for a small amount of compensation and she was happy with that as it was still more than she was getting just staying in the bar anyway and she was having a good time.

After that, she started to become more confident and their was a noticable change. One of her, now ex-friends was forever sending me SMS's telling me how bad and greedy she was getting. She started to see more and more customers, anyone who wanted her. The change was very noticable so too her greed for money. She's now at the point where she is the most popular girl in the bar with the customers and 90% of the girls HATE her because she turned into a *****. "Stealing" their customers and being too far forward in what was a very subtle bar when it comes to the sex side. The only girls that like her are a few older quiet girls who she gets to take care of her customers when she is busy. Yes it was about then that she started being a ***** to me, as clearly I now couldn't compensate for her higher earning ability and money speaks volvumes in Thai bars. A bit sad but the reality of the bargirl game, and as I said above prostitution the world over.

As she put it to me she is earning about 50,000 a month from bar work and gets about 15000 in sponsorship, for her to leave the bar should would need to earn a minimum of 50,000, or have some farang give that to her (I doub't she would leave even if someone did give her that much). Ideally she wants to be like her friend who has a farang who brought her a house and car, or her sister who after 6 years of work has a 'special boyfriend' and that many sponsors that she doesn't need to work.

Now as for being lazy and taking the easy way, I would say that is a very simplistic view of the game. It is fucking hard work. Imagine a job where you had to work everynight of the month bar one, where if you were tired, sick, had a party to go to, what ever, and had to take the night off you have to pay 500 baht for the privilige and then not make any that night too. That alone would be hard, but then imagine sitting in a bar full of smoke (making your hair smell awful), drinking and trying to make small talk to customers, many of which are just total arseholes. Worse still sitting in a bar with 15 other girls with no customers, or a bar full of customers who want to do nothing but drink and talk amongst themselves, they are not interested in having a girl sit with them, let alone buy a drink or barfine them. Again bad enough but then imagine going away with these customers, been seen in public with them and then having to sleep in the same bed, then having to suck and fuck them and let them have their way with you. Now that is a hard job in my books and anyone that does that could not be lazy. Yes I know there are girls who are lazy who want the money put don't want to 'put out' but that is a different kettle of fish.

Now I reckon my story above is would be pretty common too and yes the whole problem is the money. Yes the work is hard and can be bad, but if you are earning 50,000+ a month how could you face going to a job that pays only 8000 baht a month. For those that live in Thailand what job could a lady do (uneducated from Issan or elsewhere) where she would get 50,000+ a month? None I would guess, even with an education I would have a guess that is getting to the high end of the pay scale. So the decision to leave the bar would be bloody hard and the factors would have to be other than money alone. Is that lazyness, well no I don't think so.

Even for me I couldn't imagine changing jobs to one that payed less than what I earn now, let alone one where I would only get 1/4 of the amount. How can we expect the girls to do the same. I guess the difference is for me I can continue to earn my money and more for a long time, but the girls start to burn out, get bitter so their earning potential only has a small window of big $$$$.

Now one more question for those in the know. In bars where they pay the girls a monthly salary, lets say 3500 a month. When a girl gets fined for having a night off or coming in late I assume that the fine gets taken off the salary. If she gets fined more than the monthly salary, lets say she has taen 8 nights off does it then turn into a debt to the bar, or is it that after the salary figure is reached then she is fined no more for the month. I hope the question makes sense.

SidTheSexist
06-23-06, 06:10
Guys the story that the Traveler wrote isn't too far from the truth, but I think judging by the coments everyone is reading it on face value without looking at the underlying message. .
Precisely! Hes Just having another go at OTH!!!!! :D:D:D

Old Thai Hand
06-23-06, 09:09
Precisely! Hes Just having another go at OTH!!!!! :D:D:D

and I'm having a go at him....aint it all fun and ultimately so meaningless.

Everyone has their own experience and their own take on things and we are all probably not so wrong, but not as absolutely right as we try to come across, either because we are in different sphere's of experience and we are not really inside these girls' lives or their heads, no matter how long some of us live here.

I just got back from lunch at The Bangkok Sports Club and I sat there looking around at all the High mucky-mucks and thought that ya, I'm pretty lucky and pretty far removed from those Isaan farm girls for me to be making declarative, and somewhat heartless judgments.

On the other hand, I won't be rushing to sponsor a BG anytime soon, either.

Member #3409
06-23-06, 10:01
Precisely! Hes Just having another go at OTH!!!!! :D:D:D

That he is, but even deeper the 'story' he wrote is a reality of many girls the world over.

The Traveler
06-23-06, 16:54
...sure, it 'could happen', but the reality is otherwise.
Your story is more likely a bar stool legend than a reality.

Meaty,

sorry to say that but reality is often even more worse.

You seem to have a very simplicistic view on life, but real life isn't as simple as you portrait it.
Maybe you don't know much about the real life in the rural areas or simply ignore it.



and your post is forgetting the wonderful 30Baht medical services for everyone in Thailand, so if the baby was sick it would cost 30 baht for everything, the trouble is, the father in your story, if it were to be almost true, would rather spend 30 baht on laoKao and cigarretes and let the baby sweat out whatever sickness it had.

From my personal experiences visiting/living with Thai families in Issan, if they spent less money on cheap alcohol, cigarettes and Gik's/Mia Noi's they might not be so poor.

First, I didn't forget about the 30 baht treatments but as far as I know it provides only a limited coverage and you may only use it at public hospitals within the area you are registered.

Suppose the girl - as a loving mother - took her baby with her plus one of her younger sisters to take care of the baby during the time she works in the factory. Since she is registered in her home village she can't use the services of public hospitals in BKK on basis of the 30 baht treatment regulation. She has to pay cash !

Additionally you seem to ignore the reality in an upcountry village. Suppose her house is in a small village in the middle of nowhere close to Wung Nam Yen e.g., which is a village at the highway Chantaburi - Sa Keow. Most houses in the rural areas are build on piles. So let's assume her kid climbed down the stairs but since it was rainy and the stairs were wet and slippery it fell down the stairs. What would anybody of us do in such a case ? Yes, we would try to get immediate help.

In this case it means to either go to a private clinic or a private hospital. The nearest public hospitals are in Chantaburi (over 150 km south), in Aranyaprathet or Ta Paya (both military hospitals approx. 70 km north). The closest hospital is in Sa Keow (about 40 km north), but it is private and not covered by the 30 baht treatment regulation. Cash is needed again.

You will also have an additional problem : How to get there ?
If you are lucky, one of your neighbours will own a pickup and drive you free of charge to the hospital. But often enough you will have to hire someone from your village or any village close by to drive you there. Of course not for free. Again, money is needed.

And even if her father would really prefer to spend the last money on some "lao kao", it wouldn't change a thing, as the baby still needs some treatment. It would only add an additional problem for the girl, as having a father who is an alcoholic will have a severe impact on the financial and economic situation of the family. Or in other words: the burden on the girl's shoulders would be even bigger.

BTW, this remark only shows your prejudices towards these people. Of course there are guys who drink too much but saying that they would prefer a glass of "lao kao" over the health and/or life of their grandchild goes too far. You also ignore why those guys start to drink. It's because they try to forget the sorrows and the endless circle of debt and poverty which comes with a life as a poor farmer. Don't get me wrong, I don't excuse it. I know very well that drinking doesn't help to solve the problems and do most likely deepen them. But it's at least understandable why they drink.



They were born unlucky, but so were the 10's of thousands who manage to work on building sites, in 7-11, in macdonalds etc, compared to that hard labour, being a WG is a piece of p*ss.

... there are ALWAYS options, but they might be a little harder than the 'easy route', more commonly known as the 'Thai route'.

You point out that they could work at a McDonalds, 7eleven and so on, just like others do.
But what would it change ? Sure, she wouldn't work in a factory but that's it. Income isn't much better and how much could she actually save to send back home to pay the interest, not to mention the debt ?

Furthermore you seem to ignore that you can't put more people into work than the number of vacant jobs !
Most companies also require at least 12yrs of school from their employees. If you got only 6yrs or 9yrs it will be "The next one please ..."

Do you know the unemployment rate in LOS ?
Are all those unemployed people just lazy or can't they simply find any work ?

Let's not forget that there are almost no jobs upcountry. Small villages ("Moo Ban") have at best family run businesses if there are any at all. A "supermarket" won't be much more than a fridge and a shelf in the living room of a private house.

Even at the next so called town ("Amphoe") you won't have much more than family run businesses. A motorbike shop, a 7eleven or a gas station might be the only option. But those jobs have been given away already. So what's left for you ?

All you can do is to move into the bigger cities. But competition there is fierce and again the available jobs went to those with a better education. So what's left for you again ? Only those jobs nobody else wants to do.

Life up there is much more complex, ask your wife if you don't believe me.

Seydlitz
06-23-06, 17:05
Traveler,

... I stand by what I said before. You're a romantic fool, ...

Possibly, but taking the romantic view of a dramatic situation does not make it less brutal.

Puccini's La Bohème is a romantic view of urban poverty in mid-19th century Paris. But Mimi dies of her sickness because nobody around her can afford medical treatment, although her boyfirend tries to encourage her to sleep with an old rich man so that she can get the medicine that would save her life.

Now, I never thought I would get the opportunity to mention an opera work on a sex board...

The Traveler
06-23-06, 17:05
JC373,

correct, I exaggerated it a bit to make a point as I already said in the Pattaya section.

But all these things do happen, every day to any of the girls. Of course there are "lucky" ones like the one you described, who are able to generate a certain income due to their looks or any other attributes they may have. But the vast majority of the girls is simply just average looking and isn't able to get that much money. They often struggle and often can't attract customers.

I totally agree with you that working at a bar or gogo is absolutely no easy job. It's hard work and it's even harder to have sex with someone you aren't attracted to and who could be your grandpa.

Many guys tend to believe that since it is fun for them, it must be fun for the girls as well. But there are only very few who really like to party every night. I bet that most girls prefer to go a cinema or a calm night at home over a party night and getting fucked by a stranger.

I would be very interested in what those guys would tell us if they would have to fuck old fat smelly women to feed their kids and to pay back debt. Guess it wouldn't be so much fun and easy anymore.

The Traveler
06-23-06, 17:22
Precisely! Hes Just having another go at OTH!!!!! :D:D:D
Sid,

nope, but OTH made a statement which isn't true, at least from my point of view.

He said they start to work as protitutes because they are lazy.
I oppose that and say they start to work as prostitutes because they have financial problems and/or want to improve their lifestyle.

He believes that working as a prostitute is easy money, I say it isn't. It's hard work and often disgusting.

I wonder why people - in this case you - tend to believe that a reasonable discussion and exchange of different points of view must be a personal thing and must be motivated by a dislike in the other poster.

Actually I just enjoy the exchange with meaningful people, like OTH and Meaty in this case. We don't need to agree, that would make it uninteresting. We just differ in our opinions and try to convince each other that our opinion is the right one.

If you read back you will see that I have defended OTH several times. I believe he has a great knowledge in certain areas of Thai society and the country in general. So having a discussion with him can be quite interesting for me as he obviously has a different approach at things and made different experiences.

Sure he often comes across a bit snobby and condescending towards people from Isaan, but it's just a result of his opinion and we all are entitled to our opinions, aren't we ?

The Traveler
06-23-06, 17:33
...You're a romantic fool,
OTH,

realistic is the correct word. :)
Yes, I am also a romantic guy, that's what the girls like me for.
But I do not put them on a pedestial and idioloze them,

You can't understand someone if you insist on your point of view and do not try to see it with their eyes and imagine what you would have done being at their position.



I'm surprised that, with your attitude you haven't been taken to the cleaners by a few.

Just another sign that I am no fool. :D

The Traveler
06-23-06, 17:45
In bars where they pay the girls a monthly salary, lets say 3500 a month. When a girl gets fined for having a night off or coming in late I assume that the fine gets taken off the salary.

JC,

yes, correct, but being a bit late is usually no big deal at bars. Coming in several hours late might have the result you just described.

Many girls often work as freelancers and are just associated to a bar. Nevertheless you often have to pay a barfine (because you met them there), even though the girl doesn't get a salary there. Therefore she can't and won't be fined at all.



If she gets fined more than the monthly salary, lets say she has taen 8 nights off does it then turn into a debt to the bar, or is it that after the salary figure is reached then she is fined no more for the month.

Honestly I don't know for sure.
Guess it largely depends on the bar management. The "debt" might be withdrawn from the next salary and sometimes they might be punished by reducing their salary constantly. This is true at Gogos. The longer a girl works at a certain Gogo, the better she usually gets paid. Call it an incentive for being loyal to the Gogo. A repeated misbehaviour will have the opposite effect.

I will ask a girl and tell you then.


I hope the question makes sense.
Yes, it does.

Giotto
06-23-06, 19:09
Puccini's La Bohème is a romantic view of urban poverty in mid-19th century Paris. But Mimi dies of her sickness because nobody around her can afford medical treatment, although her boyfirend tries to encourage her to sleep with an old rich man so that she can get the medicine that would save her life.

Now, I never thought I would get the opportunity to mention an opera work on a sex board...Seydlitz,

LOL. LOL. LOL.

And I never expected to read something like this here in the forum.

Bravo!


Giotto

Valerian
06-23-06, 19:16
The Traveler,

I completely agree with your views. I have permanently lived in Isaan for some years now and am almost fluent in spoken Thai (which only means that it's easier for me to understand Thais).

I have had personal discussions with hundereds of girls on the reasons
behind them working the bars and go-go's. Not in the bar (there too) but
on the floors in their huts in Isaan, or on my porch.

I also lived in Pattaya for a year and BKK for a year.

Girls don't go to Pattaya (or wherever) to scam farangs or to seek the easy way out. They go there because of specific economic needs that arised from situations they could not control. Or because the 3500 baht per month from the local minimart just isn't enough to cover their costs of living. (don't even go inte the discussion of whether it should last or not.. if you believe it should then you have no clue as to what you're talking about.)

Or they go to find a farang husband (sometimes a lover, sometimes a provider, - SAME SAME and NOT bad.).

Or.. because they dream of getting out of the shitlife they and everyone else lead in the little villages. And there is NO other way but to works bars or catch a farang for most 20+ year girls with less than 6 years of school.

Once in Pattaya, they either get used to that life - or return back home.
The ones that get used to it, or find ways to manage, develop from there.
Stories like the one Jc373 wrote about are very common.

It's just an easy excuse to think that most bargirls are lazy golddiggers.
And it's not appreciative of the kind of shit life in rural Thailand leads to.
The only opinion it expresses is that its bearer has no clue in regards to the flavors of life a normal Thai villager experiences.

Working your way up from nothingness to somethingness is so much more
commin in the west than here. Because of cultural differences.

The lazy ones that seek the easy way out are the people with these views.
Not the girls.

I can acctually defend a lot of these girls actions, even when they take someone like OTH or Meaty to the laundry.

Because I think it's right that they do, and they should do it more often.
It's their way of leaving nothingness behind them.

Oh, and OTH.

"Oh, and BTW, I have worked under the blazing sun on a farm for 12 hours/day for minimum wage, slept on a thin mattress with no aircon. True that it was in the wilds of Canada, but same same. I got to where I am by hard work, doing many crappy, low-paying jobs in my early years to pay my way through school and to get a better life."

Poor fella - and you're the man! If you really would have experienced hard times and suffering, then you would also have been a bit more understanding of hardships. Keep padding yourself on your back for past achievements.. it seems it gets you off. To me you sound like someone who's been served a good life on a silver plate.

Keep it up in the bubble! :)

Best,
Valerian

Seydlitz
06-23-06, 19:21
I would be very interested in what those guys would tell us if they would have to fuck old fat smelly women to feed their kids and to pay back debt.

That sounds like regular marriage to me :)

Giotto
06-23-06, 19:32
That sounds like regular marriage to me :)Seydlitz,

Stop it! I get a heart attack here. This is a serious discussion. Lean back and enjoy it!


Giotto

Member #3409
06-23-06, 23:48
JC373,

correct, I exaggerated it a bit to make a point as I already said in the Pattaya section.

But all these things do happen, every day to any of the girls. Of course there are "lucky" ones like the one you described, who are able to generate a certain income due to their looks or any other attributes they may have. But the vast majority of the girls is simply just average looking and isn't able to get that much money. They often struggle and often can't attract customers.

I totally agree with you that working at a bar or gogo is absolutely no easy job. It's hard work and it's even harder to have sex with someone you aren't attracted to and who could be your grandpa.

Many guys tend to believe that since it is fun for them, it must be fun for the girls as well. But there are only very few who really like to party every night. I bet that most girls prefer to go a cinema or a calm night at home over a party night and getting fucked by a stranger.

I would be very interested in what those guys would tell us if they would have to fuck old fat smelly women to feed their kids and to pay back debt. Guess it wouldn't be so much fun and easy anymore.

It would not be fun at all and especialy if the tables were turned.

With my friend (or probably should say ex-friend) I wouldn't call her lucky, she is someone who had been caught up in the other trap of the business being too popular, which has generated a greed for money beyond survival. If she stays with the bar she will find that when she starts to tire and age starts to catch up she will be just like the older girls in the bar who are past their prime. She will have to go to work every night, there will be younger, fresher models in the bar and she will struggle, but she will have nothing else to do. When I was last in 'her' bar I saw the lengths she would go to to get a customer and it made me sad as she was doing quite well without having to do what she was doing. IMO she was almost at the point of demeaning herself. The sluttyness and the talk of her was so different to all the other girls, it was almost an embaressment to have been associated with her in the past.

This bar has some girls who are content with making their money from tips and drinks alone and maybe only see 1 or 2 longtime customers a month. One lady in this situation hs two children she looks after, has no sponsors and clearly makes enough to be comfortable. But yes with your story I have no doubt what you wrote goes on every day of the year. That is the sad side of the whole thing, sad for both the girl and customer.

The Traveler
06-24-06, 03:36
That sounds like regular marriage to me :)
Seydlitz,

LOL. :D
But in a marriage you will have more rights and are an equal partner. Another difference might be that you can be divorced instantly (sounds like an advantage) and won't get absolutely no golden handshake if your contract will be cancelled. In this case you will have to start off from zero.

The Traveler
06-24-06, 03:56
Seydlitz,

Stop it! I get a heart attack here. This is a serious discussion with numerous posts - the socalled TT overkill! Lean back and enjoy it!

Giotto
Giotto,

seems that you avoid to think about it, but of course it's much easier to judge others and to stick to prejudices from a comfortable financially secured position, being born into a system with extensive social security, given extensive education free of charge and therefore having far more choices and options than the girls.

The Traveler
06-24-06, 04:32
Oh, and BTW, I have worked under the blazing sun on a farm for 12 hours/day for minimum wage, slept on a thin mattress with no aircon. True that it was in the wilds of Canada, but same same. I got to where I am by hard work, doing many crappy, low-paying jobs in my early years to pay my way through school and to get a better life.

OTH,

I somehow do not believe you.
May I direct your attention to one of your recent posts in which you told us that your family is fairly rich and being well-connected to the Liberal Party.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=475271#post475271

Of course you will tell us that your family became rich later on or that your dad forced you into those hard working jobs because he refused to pay your way through school.

Old Thai Hand
06-24-06, 05:15
I can acctually defend a lot of these girls actions, even when they take someone like OTH or Meaty to the laundry.
Valerian

One post and you have a fuck of a lot to say. I'd be interested to know what you do in Isaan. As well, I'd like to know how you can defend these girls actions. Perhaps, they are defensible. But, explain how.

Oh, and where have I EVER said I have been "taken" by a BG? It's never happened. I don't have anything to do with BGs now and haven't had much to do with them for some time, certainly not on the level of the usualy crowd here.

One thing I have always wondered about, though...There are dirt-poor girls in the South, North and Central regions of Thailand. So, why do 90%+ of the hookers in this country come from Isaan? Just curious...

How this discussion all began...

This discussion originally started in the Pattaya section by a guy named Erik about why would anyone want to spend time with these girls because of how boring they are to talk to because they aren't all that knowledgeable about the world. I actually defended them by saying that if you lower your expectations somewhat, you could have a pleasant time.
The discussion then somehow segued to matters of intelligence and education and in that I was actually talking more about Thais in general. But, The Traveler took it that I was specifically talking about BGs. Finally, it has ended up at this point because I said I thought that BGs were lazy.

So, back to Thais in general...and I stress...it's my opinion, only, for those who somehow think that I am setting myself up as an "encyclopoedia of all things Thai". This is just what I think, based on experience and observation...

To be honest, and here I'll start another war, I'm sure, I do think that Thais in general are lazy and uninspired to accomplish anything. Thais often say this themselves. I have recently heard this time and again from my foreign-educated Thai students who, on returning here have noticed things they didn't notice before about Thai people and how they do things. My boss who's also Thai was going on about this the other day saying that Thais have no pride here in doing a job well and that Thais overall have a " that's good-enough" attitude about most things. I actually defended them in part to her by saying that consistently low wages aren't much of an incentive to do a good job. But admittedly, a lot of it also has to do with a shallowness of thought. I'm not saying, as some have accused in the past that I think that Thais are stupid. They're not. But, they're not "deep" either. They really do not like to think, plan, strategize or problem-solve. A large part of this has to do with their abysmal education system which discourages any kind of independent thinking or creativity, with its pervasive mind-numbing rote-learning and repitition. It's a wonder they emerge from school with any kind of individual personality at all. However, even within this limited capacity, Thai women are far more capable than Thai men, the vast majority of whom are let's just say, not very inspiring. If the country was run by Thai women, things would be a lot better. But, that's another topic of discussion.

There are exceptions to this, of course. But, still the vast majority of the Thai population fall into this category of shallowness and lack of "drive". This is probably the #1 reason that you read letters from frustrated Farang in the newspaper everyday, and on chatrooms like Thaivisa.com about how fucked-up things are in this country and about the pervasive lack of logic in most things Thai being so hard to stomach.

The "whingeing Farang" is a cultural phenomena here and it certainly extends to complaints about Thai women, both P4P and regular. Despite my opinions, I am not one of these. I accept Thais for what they are and complain far less about them than they complain about themselves. I still think they are a lovely, charming people, just not that intellectual. As a result, teaching here for example is a challenge because you have to lower your expectations about even the so-called "best and the brightest"; the students whom I actually teach. But, they are much nicer and more fun students to teach that their Western counterparts. That's the trade-off.

The same can be said of Thai women. Yes, they aren't as intellectually stimulating (even the really educated ones) as Western women, but they are also considerably more pleasant to be around than Western women, precisely I think because they don't think too much and don't expect too much, at least emotionally. They may have very demanding material needs from the lowest farm-girl to the highest of HiSo girls, but generally there's none of the complexity and "self-actualization, what about my needs" crap that you get from Farang women. Love and emotion for Thai women is pretty basic: "Devote all your time to me, be good at sex (they don't say this, but expect it from Farang, at least), don't be a butterfly or I'll feed your dick to the ducks (said by Thai women as a joke, but mean seriously, just the same), take me shopping, take me to eat something good (food is VERY important for these people) and out for fun sometimes"...oh, and "tell me you love me 15 times a day".... That's about it.

So, laziness, shallowness of thought and basic needs result in a pleasant experience if you take it for what it is. As the editor of the long defunct Thailand Times ( the 3rd English newspaper that didn't survive the economic crisis of '97) said to me when describing Thai's accomodating nature, but unwillingness to 'go out on a limb' about anything: "Thai people are like willow trees. They bend very far, but seldom break. That's how they survive. But, it's also why they never really move forward."

Old Thai Hand
06-24-06, 05:22
OTH,

I somehow do not believe you.
May I direct your attention to one of your recent posts in which you told us that your family is fairly rich and being well-connected to the Liberal Party.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=475271#post475271

Of course you will tell us that your family became rich later on or that your dad forced you into those hard working jobs because he refused to pay your way through school.

God! You're a dick! Why the fuck do I have to justify every little thing to you!...but, ok, ok. I worked on tree farms in northern Canada in the summertime. My family are very much of the Prostentant work-ethic persuasion, which means no free ride. Yes, they got rich later. My Dad was never rich. The money came after he died and it's primarily my sister's and brother's money (why else would I'd be "slaving" away under a hot sun teaching in Thailand...lol) Get a fucking life! You sit in Germany pontificating on Thailand like an expert because you've been here on holiday a zillion times and have owned real-estate here. But, and it's a big 'But', you don't live here. I may not always be right. But, at least I live here, and speak from first-hand, daily experience.

Giotto
06-24-06, 05:58
i’ve read this thread in the past few days with interest, because i remember myself discussing this issue numerous times in the past, and watching myself changing viewpoints during the years here in thailand.

especially when i returned to germany and got involved into discussions about all the sex tourism in pattaya i tended to support the travelers pov and told nearly the same story, to make people understand, that the life situation of those girls is considerably different from what we know in the western world, and that their way into prostitution they it is somehow understandable. poverty, minimum education especially for girls, hard work on farms or in factories, breaking relationships after having kids with thai men, sickness of the parents – all issues which are more common here especially in the rural areas than in our western world.

but living here for years now i see things differently today. may be that running the hostess bar in livingstone’s and the experiences with a specific group of girls working there also changed my mind.

first – the standard isaan story of a girl moving to the farang tourists areas pattaya, bangkok, phuket to work in bars does not explain the phenomenon that there is a considerable number of bar girls coming from bangkok, chiang mai or hat yai, all city centers, non-rural areas, not coming from farms, but from lower-middle class families for which city or factory jobs – that means alternatives to a job in a bar - are normally available.

second – there is a considerable number of girls who have a university degrees, can easily find jobs in offices but prefer the bar girl job because they simply can make more money there. it is said many times that university degrees mean nothing here in thailand, but that is not really true. you can find jobs with those degrees, the problem is that those jobs are sometimes not really well-paid.

third – there is a higher number of university students (bangkok post was writing about that last year) who make their living with working in bars, thai karaokes, even massage parlours.

fourth – the so-called “tv-effect” was not mentioned here. the people in the rural areas of the north and the south watch tv, the girls see all the wealth and options of the western or even bangkok world, and they ask themselves why they have to live in this relatively bad environment without nice clothes, diamonds, cars, houses, mobiles etc. .

fifth – a huge number of the bar girls i have spoken to had bad experiences with thai men, and prefer to find a farang boyfriend / husband. an (for us westerners) unbelievable high number of girls experienced brutality in their relationship with thai men, and a very high number of them were raped in their youth. of course there also cases where the girls have a thai boyfriend in the background and give their hard earned money to them.

sixth – we should not forget that by far the majority of all girls from the rural areas would never consider to work in a bar, and prefer to work on their parents farm or in factories, with low income, they live in this negative environment, though for sure most of them know about the option to make money as a bar girl.

-----

many arguments have been written here - i don’t want to go into details of all those posts. but some remarks to issues i remember.

- not many girls like to party all night

i thought so, too, before. but my experience in my bar is that even if we have no customers many girls like to party. they use their hard earned money to buy a bottle of black label and start to get drunk by themselves. this is not a general rule, but also no exception.

- old fat smelly farang

ok, admitted, there are some, and i am for sure one of those :) . and may be there are more in pattaya than here in bangkok – i don’t go to pattaya. but the customers i see especially here in soi 33, but also in nana and soi cowboy, are average western people, behaving well, dressed ok, and most of them are considerable boyfriend options for all the girls working there. i also see more and more younger men there, which easily could find women in discos in their home countries. but they also go to the bars and participate in p4p. but of course there are exceptions – some old fat smelly farang do exist.

- the girls are lazy

i nowadays tend to agree. i offered some of the applicants for a bar girl job the option to work in the service instead of the bar, and up to now not one single girl accepted that offer to get our of their bar girl environment. only offering them to work as a receptionist ( = bringing in customers from the road to the restaurant / bar ) with a higher salary than a normal bar girl, and even being allowed to sit with customers and be bar fined after 11.00 pm did not work in most of the cases. better sit in the bar, doing nothing if they don’t have a customer, or sitting with a customer, drinking, giving a bit of a massage – they somehow prefer that to any kind of harder work option.

- bar girl work – hard work

hmmm. ok, it is not very pleasurable for a young woman to have sex with an old man. that would be a point i can agree upon. but is it hard work to satisfy him? i don’t know… but the normal work in the bar, sitting with customers, or dancing a few rounds in a gogo bar, and then basically chatting, joking and drinking with customers, or playing pool – is that really hard work? can that even be compared to the hard work in a factory. i don’t think so.

- living here

i made the observation (reading the posts) that people living here in thailand see things slightly different from those traveling here, even if they come here numerous times. there are only few exceptions. i don’t want to say that we living here have the better overview or deeper knowledge – but i think the reason for that might be that if you only travel into the country for some weeks the entry point into the thai life is most of the times the bar life / a bar girl. then one might get connected to the family in the rural areas, but – that is still somehow the environment of the family of the bar girl. if you live here you get more connected to the normal middle class thai society, and then your viewpoints change. of course all that is not valid for me – i am running a bar :) .

----------

finally – what we should not forget. most of use westerners grew up with a certain education, in reasonable families, and may be also with some religious background. to participate in p4p was not something what our parents taught us. i am quite sure that most of us had a bit bad feeling when we paid for sex first time. i had that fore sure, and it lasted some time to get rid of that. and – i admit – today, after years here in thailand, i still don’t like it. i prefer the idea that i take care of a girl, that i help her, her family, her kids – to pay for the milk of a baby or the hospital costs of the parents fits more in my educational stamped structure of thinking than to go to a prostitute and pay for sex. that’s what the girls know too, and that’s why they like tell us this stories - because we like to believe them! and we prefer this girls to be somehow as much as possible “normal regular hard-working women”, to justify our own activities…(oh my god, what did i write…)

me stupid, me not know better than that. me being prepared for virtually getting killed now.


giotto

The Traveler
06-24-06, 06:06
You sit in Germany pontificating on Thailand like an expert because you've been here on holiday a zillion times and have owned real-estate here. But, and it's a big 'But', you don't live here. I may not always be right. But, at least I live here, and speak from first-hand, daily experience.
OTH,

wrong.
Read back - approx. 2yrs - and you will find out that I have lived and worked in Thailand long before you even set foot on ground in the Kingdom.

Anyway, you don't have to justify anything if you don't want to. It's absolutely on your behalf to answer or not. I just point out to what seems to be contradicting in your posts. Nobody is forcing you and I am not responsible if your posts need some clarification or have to be explained.

Old Thai Hand
06-24-06, 06:16
Fourth – the so-called “TV-effect” was not mentioned here. The people in the rural areas of the north and the south watch TV, the girls see all the wealth and options of the western or even Bangkok world, and they ask themselves why they have to live in this relatively bad environment without nice clothes, diamonds, cars, houses, mobiles etc


Giotto

You're right. This is a huge factor as Thai TV, filled as it is with total fantasy romances that show the good life of Bangkok convinces many up-country girls (and men, too) to come to BKK. One only need see the recent Thai movie, "Noo Hin" to see this whole thing satirized really well. Although, Noo Hin becomes a maid, not a hooker, it still shows in a funny way the reality of up-country vs. the life in the city for these girls.

Retired Army
06-24-06, 07:26
The same can be said of Thai women. Yes, they aren't as intellectually stimulating (even the really educated ones) as Western women, but they are also considerably more pleasant to be around than Western women, precisely I think because they don't think too much and don't expect too much, at least emotionally. They may have very demanding material needs from the lowest farm-girl to the highest of HiSo girls, but generally there's none of the complexity and "self-actualization, what about my needs" crap that you get from Farang women. Love and emotion for Thai women is pretty basic: "Devote all your time to me, be good at sex (they don't say this, but expect it from Farang, at least), don't be a butterfly or I'll feed your dick to the ducks (said by Thai women as a joke, but mean seriously, just the same), take me shopping, take me to eat something good (food is VERY important for these people) and out for fun sometimes"...oh, and "tell me you love me 15 times a day".... That's about it.



As usual you are "spot on" with your observations, especially the part about being more pleasant to be around than a Western woman. However I disagree with some of your other "observations," i.e., being lazy. Yes, there are many lazy Thai girls, but I have also know some damn hard working ones also. My GF is an example. She used to get up at 04:00 every morning to help her family in their restaurant. She later got her college degree, started her own business and went on to receive her master's degree. I made her sell her business because she was working too hard. I think that her mother's Chinese work ethic was a positive influence. Her father was an engineer and well educated, but Thai. I wonder what he built and to what standards? As for being intellectually stimulating, she is as bright as any Westerner. Too much so when I am trying to get away with something I shouldn't. Then again, I am no longer the "sharpest knife in the drawer" anymore so it may all be relative. Some Westerners think she is dumb because English is not her native language and her writing leaves a lot to be desired. But when it comes to common sense the has them all beat.

The Traveler
06-24-06, 07:40
Me stupid, me not know better than that. Me being prepared for virtually getting killed now.

Giotto,

LOL, don't worry, nobody will kill you :)
You aren't stupid at all. Very good observations and I agree to most of them.

All in all I back up most things you have said but you missed the point somehow.

OTH stated that girls from ISAAN start to work as prostitutes due to their natural laziness.

He seems to have some dislike in these people and I am not sure whether it originates from being played by an Isaan girl once or if he got too much involved with MidSo and HiSo Thais and adopted their looks on poor people from that area.

We were not talking about students in BKK, Chiang Mai or girls who come from MidSo families and have a decent education and therefore other options. We werte solely talking about poor Isaan girls and why they choose to work as prostitutes. Nevertheless the P4P scene offers a good income and of course girls from all sorts of origin might feel attracted to that money.

Why do some Japanese school girls prostitute themselves ? They don't have to, they live in a secured environment, don't have to starve and are getting a good education which will open many doors.

The answer is prestige, they want to show off with the newest mobile phone, the fanciest clothes with a brand name and so on. That might also be the reason for your mentioned BKK students and might also be true for some Isaan girls who otherwise live under comfortable conditions. Not all Isaan people are poor.

But that wasn't the focus of the discussion and saying that there are girls in this business who do not need to work as prostitutes is absolutely irrelevant as it doesn't change the reasons why poor people with no education often have to. Nobody ever denied that there are other reasons to join in.

Also saying that not all Isaan girls choose that way doesn't change a thing. Do their families face the same problems, do they have to pay back some debt, did they have bad luck and got hit by an unpredictable incident, do they face just minor problems or have they reached a dead end ? Many factors play a role and only those who lost hope may make that decision and end up as P4P.


You point out that the girls at your lodge are getting drunk on their own and interpret it as "partying". Maybe you only scratch at the surface. What if they get drunk to forget about their sorrows and their current situation ?

You also argue that the girls must be lazy because they rejected your offer to work as a receptionist with higher salary, but didn't mentioned what that means in baht. The amount offered might not be enough to pay all the bills for them and their families. They might also fear that if a customer has to wait until 11pm to barfine them may cause the loss of that customer. Anyway, these are girls who are already in the business and the damage is already done. Maybe you got only battle hardened pros and if I recall the posta about Island Girl, the Duck and others that seems to be the case. You didn't really offer a way out of the biz.

Finally you express your doubts that working in a gogo isn't hard work. It's just dancing a few rounds, chatting and drinking.

Hmm, try to even walk all night in high-heels, not to speak of dancing, wearing a bikini in an undercooled room freezing for 6-8 hours plus the loud music during all that time. That alone is hard.
Now imagine that you got to suck dicks of guys you do not know and the risks involved with it plus having sex with different guys each night who often don't give shit or just don't understand that you feel unfortable or even pain.
And that you got to smile and make those guys feel good even if you are tired due to dancing all night long and having been fucked for hours yesterday by a guy who took Viagra to prove what a man he is after he went partying with you until the sun came up. Not getting enough sleep because you work at night and your neighbouring environment is noisy from 6:30 am on.

Hey, I actually think that's a great idea. Giotto in a bikini in high-heels. What a picture. Let your customers have a vote on that. Don't forget, customer relation is very important and your customer's wish should be your command. Don't worry, we will spare you sucking their dicks :D

Giotto
06-24-06, 07:52
I was writing about the "Life Situation of Bar Girls". That's all I can say.


Giotto

Old Thai Hand
06-24-06, 08:15
Retired Army

You impy that your wife's mother is Chinese. This probably explains the difference and her work ethic. I'm talking about Thai-Thai, and Thai-Isaan in particular, not Thai-Chinese. There's a book called "Letters from Bangkok" written from 1946-1968 about the life of a Chinese immigrant who became a very rich and well-known business man in Thailand. This book rips into Thais as being lazy, dishonest, not very good at planning, execution or work in general. Interestingly, it used to be required ready in all Thai schools up until a few years ago because of its perceived accuracy about life and culture here.
It's little wonder that the financial might of this country is controlled by Thai-Chinese and they're the ones responsible for most of the good (and bad) development and progress here.

I stand by what I say about Thais and especially Isaan Thais not being too deep or paying attention to quality. I'm currently dealing with builders working on a studio at the university. I designed this studio to exact specifications. I can't get them to do it to the standards I want. They keep cutting corners to save time (not money) because they can't be bothered doing it right. Example: Instead of mitring the corners of the moulding around the base of the wall, they just butt-jointed it because it's easier. I went in, took one look at it, grabbed a claw hammer and ripped it out and told the guys to do it properly. They looked at me completely dumb-founded as they simply didn't get why it wasn't "good enough".

Duniawala
06-24-06, 08:34
Traveler

You are the man. Nobody knows the Thais better than you, not even the Thais. We are honored.

OTH
You are absolutely right. What the heck the dark skinned Isaan girls know anyway. They are lazy bums. Now the fair skinned ones are a different story. You also know the Thais better than the natives, too.

The Traveler
06-24-06, 08:36
OTH;

just saw your below post and the way you put it this time sounds quite different from what you have said before.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=478040&postcount=2860
Maybe I just got you wrong or maybe you should avoid generalisations or to speak in headlines.

Nevertheless, in general I can agree to what you say in this post, but just like Retired Army, I want to point out that there are others who differ from your observations.

So again, if you speak about "many", "most" or the "majority" of Thais I can agree, but not if you speak about "all" Thaisl. You are a professor can be very eloquent and have all means to express your thoughts in detail, so why not use this ability and avoid generalisations and talking in headlines ?

Old Thai Hand
06-24-06, 08:50
OTH stated that girls from ISAAN start to work as prostitutes due to their natural laziness.

He seems to have some dislike in these people and I am not sure whether it originates from being played by an Isaan girl once or if he got too much involved with MidSo and HiSo Thais and adopted their looks on poor people from that area.


Trav

I don't want to debate the intelligence issue or whatever, any longer. I've had my say and i'm bored of it now.

But, I would like to correct one thing. I have never have been played by an Isaan girl. I don't dislike all Isaan people. I just really don't like Isaan BGs at all anymore. I'm sick of their bullshit sob-stories, sick of their loud voices, their shitty accents and their uncouth ways.

As I stated before, the best GF I ever had here came from Roi-et, was a poor farm-girl and surprisingly, contrary to what I have said remains one of the smartest, most hungry-for-knowledge Thais I have ever met. But, she was really exceptional. There are always exceptions, aren't there. But, despite being poor, she still didn't opt for the bargirl life before she met me, because it was a matter of self-respect and a respect for Thai cultural tradition. So, she worked as a waitress in a seafood restaurant which is where I met her.

My current GF is also from Isaan. She comes from Amnat Charoen. But, she isn't a poor farm girl. She is solidly middle-class. Her father is a High-school principal. She grew up in a town and therefore has nothing to do with the poor Isaan farmer lifestyle. So, I guess she falls into that MidSo category to which you refer.

The one thing I don't get is why Farang, particularly you are so defensive of these girls. They aren't somehow sacred. Is it because the only girls you can get here are hookers from Isaan and therefore you have to defend them? Just wondering. Respectable Thais, including respectable Isaan Thais look down on them for very obvious reasons. It may be hypocritical for many of them to do so. But, in the context of this country, these girls carry a stigma of essentially insulting their own culture.

Personally, I don't disrespect them, if I ever happen to meet them and I enjoy talking to them occasionally. But, I sure as hell don't go out of my way to justify them or their way of life the way you seem to do.

Lastly, given a choice between an Isaan BG or a nice respectable TG whether Thai, Isaan, or Thai-Chinese, are you going to tell me that you and most guys here would still rather have a low-class hooker than a nice TG?

Old Thai Hand
06-24-06, 08:58
Traveler

You are the man. Nobody knows the Thais better than you, not even the Thais. We are honored.

OTH
You are absolutely right. What the heck the dark skinned Isaan girls know anyway. They are lazy bums. Now the fair skinned ones are a different story. You also know the Thais better than the natives, too.

LOL. very cutting...
I quoted Thais that I have met to back my opinion. I don't know the Thais better than they know themselves. That's funny. It's not a matter of skin colour. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about that because you're a dark-skinned Indian. But, get off that jag, now! it's not relevant. Southern Thais, who are very dark, BTW are often considered the most pro-active of all Thais. My experience of Thais not being too industrious, deep-thinking etc. spans many different groups of people in this country including even Thai-Chinese. Although, generally Thai-Chinese are very hard-working.

The Traveler
06-24-06, 09:06
The one thing I don't get is why Farang, particularly you are so defensive of these girls.
OTH,

the explanation is quite simple.
I do not like any sort of prejudice and generalisations. Your remarks often come across as quite bossy and condescending.

I rather prefer to judge on a person by person basis, everybody has his own reasons for doing what he/she does and it's most often not on me to judge them for their decisions. I rather tend to ask myself how I would have decided being at their position.



Lastly, given a choice between an Isaan BG or a nice respectable TG whether Thai, Isaan, or Thai-Chinese, are you going to tell me that you and most guys here would still rather have a low-class hooker than a nice TG?

I just did that. I exchanged my former Thai GF who has a respectable job at Thai Airways and also studies at Chula on Fri/Sat for an Isaan bargirl who was fresh in the business.

I don't think in classes and give shit about the social origin of a person. I only care about the character and the attitude of a person. But I wonder why you care so much about it ? Shy about her, care about prejudices of others and not enough self-confidence to stand up for your decision ?

Old Thai Hand
06-24-06, 09:12
OTH,

I just did that. I exchanged my former Thai GF who has a respectable job at Thai Airways and also studies at Chula on Fri/Sat for an Isaan bargirl who was fresh in the business.



Since you're so fond of pointing out my contradictions and mistakes, or in some cases calling me a liar, I think I see something not quite right in this statement. Please explain.

Your former GF is working for Thai Airways and studying at Chula? Part-time student? at Chula? studying what? This seems pretty suspect to me. Be very careful how you answer this. I teach at Chula.

If this is indeed true, you're telling me that you gave up a Chula girl for a BG? Man, you're just fucking stupid, plain and simple. I used to have some respect for you. But, if you really did this, you're just a knob.

The Traveler
06-24-06, 09:21
I stand by what I say about Thais and especially Isaan Thais not being too deep or paying attention to quality. I'm currently dealing with builders working on a studio at the university. I designed this studio to exact specifications. I can't get them to do it to the standards I want. They keep cutting corners to save time (not money) because they can't be bothered doing it right. Example: Instead of mitring the corners of the moulding around the base of the wall, they just butt-jointed it because it's easier. I went in, took one look at it, grabbed a claw hammer and ripped it out and told the guys to do it properly. They looked at me completely dumb-founded as they simply didn't get why it wasn't "good enough".
OTH,

you change the subject and Duni didn't even got it.

The inital question was if girls enter the P4P business because they are lazy or not ?

What you describe above is a result of the lack of education and as you already pointed out, low wages do not necessarily encourage people to do more than necessary. I have made similar experiences but what does it have to do with Thai-Isaan girls working as prostitutes ?

The Traveler
06-24-06, 09:24
Your former GF is working for Thai Airways and studying at Chula? Part-time student? at Chula? studying what? This seems pretty suspect to me. Be very careful how you answer this. I teach at Chula.

OTH,

yes part-time as she already has a degree and a job. I will ask her what exactly she is studying and will then tell you by PM.
BTW, I guessed long ago that you teach at Chula. :) Not a smart move either to tell us because now you gave out your identity. Easy to find out about you now. So beware, by telling you what course she is at I will give out her identity. If you will misuse this info in any way, it will have consequences !



If this is indeed true, you're telling me that you gave up a Chula girl for a BG? Man, you're just fucking stupid, plain and simple. I used to have some respect for you. But, if you really did this, you're just a knob.

As already said, opposite to you I give shit about status. That you care so much only shows that you got stuck and adopted the views of those around you who believe to be better because of to their different social status. Some people need that for their ego. You must like India and it's caste system. Thai-Isaan perfectly fit into the "untouchable" caste, don't they ?

The reason is very simple, too much talk about getting married and the lack of time as she got to work. I don't like to get stuck in BKK and prefer to travel around the country.

Old Thai Hand
06-24-06, 09:32
OTH,

yes part-time as she already has a degree and a job. I will ask her what exactly she is studying and will then tell you by PM.
BTW, I guessed long ago that you teach at Chula. :) Not a smart move either to tell us because now you gave out your identity. Easy to find out about you.



The reason is very simple, too much talk about getting married and the lack of time as the got to work. I don't like to get stuck in BKK and prefer to travel around the country.

There are loads of Farang at Chula. So, I don't need to worry.
Sorry. But, I don't believe you in this story. But, I could be wrong. Still, Chula doesn't have part-time students, that I'm aware of.

Old Thai Hand
06-24-06, 09:43
Old Thai Hand,

Me stupid, but me have 804 posts. You clever, but you only 394 post.

Me say you: Shut Up Now!

Otherwise this nonsense will never stop. There are people in this world who know everything better at any time. Better make love to your girlfriend, 5 times in the next 5 hours.


Giotto

I'll try. But, I really would rather dump her, now and see if Traveler's ex-GF would go out with me. I've always fancied having a Chula GF....peace

The Traveler
06-24-06, 10:12
Old Thai Hand,

Me stupid, but me have 804 posts. You clever, but you only 397 posts.

Me say you: Shut Up Now!

Otherwise this nonsense will never stop. There are people in this world who know everything better at any time. Better make love to your girlfriend, 5 times in the next 5 hours.


Giotto
Giotto,

you really disappoint me.
If you have a position in this discussion why not provide any additional arguments to back up your point of view like OTH and I do ?

If you got nothing to say or are bored, you are free to skip it just like I skipped that senseless jacuzzi nonsense in your thread.
Did I tell you to stop it ? No I didn't.

This isn't neither your forum nor your thread and everybody is free to post whatever he likes as long as he doesn't violates any rules or insults others. Since this isn't the case let us have this discussion, even if you don't like it.

This is the Opinions and Advice section and I post my opinions, OTH does the same. We differ, so what ? Aren't we entitled to our opinions ? Do you judge whos right or wrong ? On which basis ? Are you entitled to ? And who are you to tell others to shut up ? Do you now choose the topics for us ?

If I or OTH get bored we are free to stop at any time, but not because you tell us. Or don't you like or can't stand opinions that differ from yours ?

I have no problem with OTH's point of view, it's just different from mine. I do not object to everything he says but to a certain issue. I am able to accept that people differ from me, why can't you ? And does defending my opinion makes me a know it all ? Do people always have to agree with you ? Or do you only like people who immediately change their opinions ? Can't you stand it, prefer to have apple-polishers around you ? That sounds boring to me.

Pool Guy
06-24-06, 12:02
OTH,

look into your PM box.
I have just called her and forwarded that info to you.

But again, do not misuse this info in any way.
Even though there are many farangs at Chula, there is only one Canadian prof at your age teaching your courses/classes and does some construction on campus plus additional attributes you have told us about. You have given out far too many details about you and I can find you with a bit effort. Remember that I warned you after your first post long ago that it isn't wise to give out too many infos about yourself as you live in an environment which won't accept or forgive your actions in here. There are also other means to punish you. Accept that you are vulnerable due to your own behaviour.

I consider her privacy as my privacy and therefore will react on any violations. I will use any means to protect her and believe me I can do far more damage to you than you can do to me, no matter who you believe to know or have relations with. Guess your behaviour and opinions in here - plus the pics of course - won't be very welcomed by the people you work and live with.

BTW, deleting pics and posts won't help, so I save you that effort, I have already downloaded the pics and made screenshots of your posts long ago, just in case. I am no Thai and think and plan long-term with German accuracy.

Please don't get me wrong. I do not threaten you and do not intend to use any of it against you as long as you respect her privacy and mine of course. But any approach on her or pointing to this forum will trigger actions from my side. I just tell you to make it very clear that I am absolutely serious about that and do not tolerate any violations whatsoever.

See it as a trade of protecting and respecting each others privacy.
As long as you respect mine, I do respect yours.

Sorry, a bit off topic; however have to ask since I would love to teach in Thailand.

If you hold the rank of Professor; and are tenured, does public scandal have any effect on employment? In most academic settings, only a criminal conviction would be grounds for dismissal of tenured faculty. Is it different in Thailand?
Pool Guy

The Traveler
06-24-06, 12:13
Sorry, a bit off topic; however have to ask since I would love to teach in Thailand.

If you hold the rank of Professor; and are tenured, does public scandal have any effect on employment? In most academic settings, only a criminal conviction would be grounds for dismissal of tenured faculty. Is it different in Thailand?
Pool Guy
Pool Guy,

OTH hasn't committed any crimes he could be held responsible for, so there aren't any legal means for a dismissal. But some of his posts may very well be in contrast of what might be expected from a Prof at a univ. Since his boss is a Thai too, she might be offended by what he has said about Thais.

Furthermore he dared to post pics of his students on a sex website. I guess this alone may cause some probs, especially if the parents of those students will know about. Don't forget, many of them are very influential.

I downloaded them - just like Coma and others did - and kept them because you will never know what it might be good for.

But maybe OTH should answer this question. He most likely does know far more than me regarding this issue.
But I wonder that you plan to cause a public scandal ? :)

The Traveler
06-24-06, 12:34
Giotto,

I have no bad feelings for OTH, nor do I plan to harm him.
I only made it clear - hopefully very clear - that I will not tolerate an exposure of this girl. That's all.

He already moved it to a personal basis by calling me a dick.
I don't care about it but since he obviously has some temper I don't know what might come next.

And what about your own part ?
You did only contribute one reasonable post but the rest was nothing else than trying to make fun out of me/us, literally putting oil in the fire. What was that good for ?

We had a civil discussion without flaming/insulting each other and I never showed any disrespect for OTH. We only have different opinions. But it seems that some guys rather prefer that senseless chit chat bullshit which makes 98% of your thread than a decent discussion about an interesting issue.

Is it a bad thing to differ ?
Why is every discussion immediately interpreted as a fight ?

Furthermore he indirectly called me a liar and doubted what I have said about my ex Thai GF. Strange enough that he lost temper when I asked for clarification about some of his remarks which were contradicting but now he does the very same thing as he wasn't aware of part-timers at Chula..

What I have said is no imminent threat, only a potential one which completely depends on how he uses the given personal info. As long as he doesn't try to expose her he will be fine.