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Bimbo Boy
10-28-10, 17:36
This goes for any situation that involves you in the Brazilian legal system. If you have the option to run, best take that option. As a gringo your chances of a fair crack of the whip are definitely against you. Non existent, if going up against a Brazilian with connections. The general phychy of the population at all levels does not expect fair play.Do you infer that the USA legal system is fair? What would be the chances of a simple Brazilian policeman against an American citizen with connections in an USA court ? My guess is about the same chances as the American marshals in Brazil. Not any better.

This kind of bias and prejudice makes me mad.

"Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye?", Matthew 7:1-29

Perkele
10-29-10, 11:01
It is a fact that some countries, societies and cultures are more corrupt than others. Observing that fact is not prejudice. Check out the latest data from transparency org about corruption perception of ALL countries of the world released this week. Brazil is not on the bottom but significantly lower than the top 20 least-corrupt nations.

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

And yes, in my opinion if a Brazilian air marshall were to arrest the wife of a famous American judge, the marshall would have been treated more than fairly. The Judge and his wife would have been in trouble and the cop probably would have been interviewed by all major networks and sent home with commendation. I am not prejudiced. That is a fact of life.You must be citizen of the USA. Actually USA is one of the most racist countries I have ever been. The police doesn't treat foreigners very well at all. They might not be corrupt, but I do not believe a word you are writing. Going to USA is such a pain in the ass and if it can be avoided, I highly recommend not to go.

I'm quite sure that brazilian air marshall in a similar situation would be in trouble.

What bothers me is that US officials do everything they can to extract their citizens from foreign countries where they have committed crimes. Like those airline pilots who collided that GOL jet where more than 150 people died. They never showed up in a trial and it was plainly clear that the american pilots were wrong.

So please stop being so pompous and start obeying the laws of the countries where you go. You americans are no better than everybody else, you just think you are.

Fred100
10-29-10, 13:35
Do you infer that the USA legal system is fair? What would be the chances of a simple Brazilian policeman against an American citizen with connections in an USA court ? My guess is about the same chances as the American marshals in Brazil. Not any better.

This kind of bias and prejudice makes me mad.

"Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye?", Matthew 7:1-29I am not American, I'm a Scot. Having worked all over the world for the last 38 years. I have been living in Brazil for the past nine years. I mainly deal with our Latin American clients these days. The bias in my opinion is not solely based on my experience with dealing with local officials throughout Brazil. These are also the opinions/frustrations of my Brazilian/Latin American colleagues. Many have been in the same business as myself for many years and have worked in many countries. So they have a comparison and know the difference. In fact an old Brazilian friend/colleagues of mine once said "give me Nigeria any day. you don't have to kiss their ass to make them feel good about taking the bribe".

Nothing makes your skin crawl more than a arrogant, self righteous, self justifying official/thief.

Bubba Boy
10-29-10, 17:33
You must be citizen of the USA. Actually USA is one of the most racist countries I have ever been. The police doesn't treat foreigners very well at all. They might not be corrupt, but I do not believe a word you are writing. Going to USA is such a pain in the ass and if it can be avoided, I highly recommend not to go.I am not a US citizen and have been to 80 countries out of the roughly 200 that exist. The USA is one of the least racist countries I have been to. Sure there are racist people in every country, but I would think that percentage in the US is very small, certainly less than 10%. Sure it is a pain in the ass to go through their immigration point of entry but that is not because they are racist, something about people flying planes into buildings has a tendency to increase a countries security. Pain in the ass, yes! but understandable considering what has happened. Last time I looked, the US had a black president, not many western countries can say that, can't see a black president being elected in what you refer to as "one of the most rascist countries in the world".

Getting back on track. Out of the 80 countries that I have visited, maybe 20 have an efficient corrupt free legal system. Those 20 countries are generally the most developed countries. The basis for all successful countries with a high standard of living is to have a just legal system. Brazil does not have a just legal system, if it did, the economy would just grow and grow. Now before someones says the Brazilian economy is growing strongly, well yes it is. However it has had booming economies before, big booms in fact. Sadly, because it does not reform its legal system the boom turns to a bust as most of the wealth generated is stolen by the elite upper class and the underclass's suffer. Will this boom last? Who knows, but the reforms the government has been putting in place are painfully slow and serious reforms are still needed if Brazil wishes to continue its developement.

Bimbo Boy
10-29-10, 19:22
... In fact an old Brazilian friend/colleagues of mine once said "give me Nigeria any day. you don't have to kiss their ass to make them feel good about taking the bribe".

Nothing makes your skin crawl more than a arrogant, self righteous, self justifying official/thief.Interesting comment.

Thanks

Prosal
10-29-10, 20:16
You must be citizen of the USA. Actually USA is one of the most racist countries I have ever been.I'd rate Thailand n°1. Thais are institutionally taught to be xenophobic (compare that to the efforts and the laws in West to fight xenophobia and discriminations) and that since centuries.

Thais have never liked foreigners, since centuries and wherever the "aliens" came from. They have a long-standing resentment to farangs living among them. Xenophobia, smugness, malevolence and arrogance have always been major elements of their character. I could add that they are also violent, vindictive, confrontational and spiteful, but there's nothing fundamentally new in that. Anyone with half a brain who has frequented in Thailand other people than hoes and hotel clerks knows that.

That said, racial prejudice does exist a lot in Brasil. And in many ways, this prejudice is even more pervasive than in US or Europe. The most insidious thing about brasilian racial prejudice is that most brasilians tend to believe (and even often totally succeed in convincing themselves) the nationalist propaganda that Brasil does not really have a race problem.

Propaganda which is relayed by all the daydreamers "Brasil lovers" gringos who live in denial of the realities .....

Perkele
10-29-10, 21:46
I am not a US citizen and have been to 80 countries out of the roughly 200 that exist. The USA is one of the least racist countries I have been to. Everyone has his opinion. NOTE! I'm as white as can be and I felt lot of discrimination in USA. I avoid to go there as much as possible. Unfortunately its unavoidable.

And that's that.

Brazil Specialist
10-30-10, 04:56
Instead of a taxi you can take the frescão, Real Bus, just outside the rodoviária.

The regular city bus might not be safe that late in the evening, considering you are carrying luggage.The regular city bus is not safe at any time

I personally know people who were robbed at knife point in a bus in Avenida Copacabana at 2 pm.

If you have valuables, don't penny pinch to save R$ 20 and to lose R$ 5000.

Especially if you look like a gringo.

Frescão is a little safer. But the way from the stop to your apartment is not.

I don't try to save money in the wrong places.

Vitrea
10-30-10, 05:07
I am not a US citizen and have been to 80 countries out of the roughly 200 that exist. The USA is one of the least racist countries I have been to. Sure there are racist people in every country, but I would think that percentage in the US is very small, certainly less than 10%. Sure it is a pain in the ass to go through their immigration point of entry but that is not because they are racist, something about people flying planes into buildings has a tendency to increase a countries security. Pain in the ass, yes! but understandable considering what has happened. Last time I looked, the US had a black president, not many western countries can say that, can't see a black president being elected in what you refer to as "one of the most rascist countries in the world".

Getting back on track. Out of the 80 countries that I have visited, maybe 20 have an efficient corrupt free legal system. Those 20 countries are generally the most developed countries. The basis for all successful countries with a high standard of living is to have a just legal system. Brazil does not have a just legal system, if it did, the economy would just grow and grow. Now before someones says the Brazilian economy is growing strongly, well yes it is. However it has had booming economies before, big booms in fact. Sadly, because it does not reform its legal system the boom turns to a bust as most of the wealth generated is stolen by the elite upper class and the underclass's suffer. Will this boom last? Who knows, but the reforms the government has been putting in place are painfully slow and serious reforms are still needed if Brazil wishes to continue its developement.

Bubba Boy, very well said. I have not travelled as extensively as you; I have only been to 58 countries in my life and I completely agree with your statement regarding race and justice system.


You must be citizen of the USA. Actually USA is one of the most racist countries I have ever been. The police doesn't treat foreigners very well at all. They might not be corrupt, but I do not believe a word you are writing. Going to USA is such a pain in the ass and if it can be avoided, I highly recommend not to go.
I'm quite sure that brazilian air marshall in a similar situation would be in trouble.
What bothers me is that US officials do everything they can to extract their citizens from foreign countries where they have committed crimes. Like those airline pilots who collided that GOL jet where more than 150 people died. They never showed up in a trial and it was plainly clear that the american pilots were wrong.
So please stop being so pompous and start obeying the laws of the countries where you go. You americans are no better than everybody else, you just think you are.

Yes, I am a US citizen and proud of it :-) BTW, you don't need get personal to get your point across. I am sorry that you were discriminated in the USA. Don't write off the entire country because of your interaction with border security or few bad apples. I do obey the laws where I go and I plan to be in Brazil soon. In spite of the fact that it is a corrupt nation, I am sure I will meet some wonderful people and plan on making great memories.

Perkele
10-30-10, 13:39
Bubba Boy, very well said. I have not travelled as extensively as you; I have only been to 58 countries in my life and I completely agree with your statement regarding race and justice system.



Yes, I am a US citizen and proud of it :-) BTW, you don't need get personal to get your point across. I am sorry that you were discriminated in the USA. Don't write off the entire country because of your interaction with border security or few bad apples. I do obey the laws where I go and I plan to be in Brazil soon. In spite of the fact that it is a corrupt nation, I am sure I will meet some wonderful people and plan on making great memories.

Trust me, I didn't write off entire country because of border security or some few individuals. Its the great majority that are rather uneducated. And my opinion is not from one place only since during the year I spent there I traveled from coast to coast. Actually the most easy going people you find in New Mexico. Rest, well....

If I were a US citizen.... never mind.

Tiradentes
10-30-10, 15:51
I Last time I looked, the US had a black president, not many western countries can say that, can't see a black president being elected in what you refer to as "one of the most rascist countries in the world".




Not a long time ago, the US had slavery.It had the klu klax klan. The US did not allow its own people of color to vote until the 60's. If you treat your own citizens like this, then foreigners should not expect much welcoming.

Electing a black president (half black may I add) two years ago produced the tea party, which is as bigoted as the extreme right currently found in many European nations. The tea party is expected to make large inroads in next week midterm elections.

Brazil on the other hand, and although highly corruptable, had none of that during its history. The candidates running for president of Brazil are two middle of the road centrists. One is center right, the other is center left. The extremists (left or right) have no place in Brazilian politics. Lula was first feared that he will turn his country into a communist place, but he did not. He ran it from the center.

Brazil is also one of the very few countries that never had a civil war.

I visited Brazil over 30 times and never witnessed discrimination.

Prosal
10-30-10, 16:46
I visited Brazil over 30 times and never witnessed discrimination.Get real.

Many many times in Brasil, in posh clubs, I have witnessed the bouncers, themselves people of color, exclude people trying to get in on the basis of race.

Sperto
10-30-10, 17:04
A new thread, nice. Racism against foreigners in Brazil...

Racism exist in Brazil, without any doubt. Racism against people with darker skin colour, indians and nordestinos. But racism against foreigners I have never encountered at any time in 20 years (except in some areas the locals might not like a certain nationality, e g italians might not be popular in Fortaleza).

However brazilians might have a lot of ideas regarding gringos. Ideas put in their head by media or rumours. Ideas like:
* Gringos fool brazilian women to go to Europe and makes them work as prostitutes.
* Gringos prefers mulattas.
* Gringos only come to Brazil for sex-tourism.

Helpmann
10-30-10, 17:25
Not a long time ago, the US had slavery.Slavery was abolished 145 years ago (before Brazil was even a republic).


It had the klu klax klan. Had?? The Klan still exists in the US and HAS over 100 chapters. BTW, you have skinheads and Neo-Nazis throughout Brazil, especially in Sao Paulo. Shit, where do you think Josef Mengele was living???


The US did not allow its own people of color to vote until the 60's. Black American men have had the right to vote since the passage of the Fifteenth Amendment in 1870. Christ, Brazil ratified its constitution in 1988, 200 years before the United States!!


BTW, since 1889, every Brazilian president has been white, which is unbelievable given that over half of Brazil's population is "brown" and black.

-Helpmann :rolleyes:

Perkele
10-30-10, 23:06
Slavery was abolished 145 years ago (before Brazil was even a republic).

Had?? The Klan still exists in the US and HAS over 100 chapters. BTW, you have skinheads and Neo-Nazis throughout Brazil, especially in Sao Paulo. Shit, where do you think Josef Mengele was living???

Black American men have had the right to vote since the passage of the Fifteenth Amendment in 1870. Christ, Brazil ratified its constitution in 1988, 200 years before the United States!!


BTW, since 1889, every Brazilian president has been white, which is unbelievable given that over half of Brazil's population is "brown" and black.

-Helpmann :rolleyes:


You do not even deserve a respost.

Golfinho
10-30-10, 23:09
Everyone has his opinion. NOTE! I'm as white as can be and I felt lot of discrimination in USA. I avoid to go there as much as possible. Unfortunately its unavoidable.

And that's that.The most racist country is the land formerly known as Palestine. An avoidable place best avoided.

Helpmann
10-31-10, 00:12
You do not even deserve a respost.You can't argue with the facts.

-Helpmann :p

Ryjerrob
10-31-10, 08:09
This thread is a setup. There's no info that anyone can post in this thread that will help with my mongering activities. There will be more bickering than anything, and all the experts will have expert opinions to share on race.

I have been fucked by white, black, asian, fat, skinny, poor, middle class, and rich brasilian women. The only two constants are that my cum is milky white, and the pussy is pink. Leave the politics to the politicans, and the fucking to the mongerers!!!!

ryjer

Vitrea
10-31-10, 10:35
A new thread, nice. Racism against foreigners in Brazil...

Racism exist in Brazil, without any doubt. Racism against people with darker skin colour, indians and nordestinos. But racism against foreigners I have never encountered at any time in 20 years ..................

These posts started as discussions on how good or bad the legal system in Brazil is and possible corruption and it led to comparison of USAs legal system with that of Brazil. One poster, out of the blue, commented on "race" and it degenerated into a race issue and unfortunately the moderator chose that title for the thread :-)

Prosal
11-01-10, 21:45
These posts started as discussions on how good or bad the legal system in Brazil is and possible corruption and it led to comparison of USAs legal system with that of Brazil. One poster, out of the blue, commented on "race" and it degenerated into a race issue and unfortunately the moderator chose that title for the thread :-)There IS actually racism against foreigners in Brasil. Against the "bling-bling ghetto MTV sex tourists" who are obvious sex tourists and don't even pretend to be subtle about it. This isn't the brasilian way.

Furthermore, white brasilians don't appreciate this breed of black guys who have the cash to come down to Rio and fuck their white women, even if those white women are in the programa. FYI, despite all the BS about Brasil being a non-racist country, most white brasilian men would rather not take seconds from a black.

Ryjerrob
11-05-10, 20:43
This thread is a total waste of time and energy. If you really need this type of info to enhance your mongering activities, read a book or take a class. The majority of this thread is all biased bullshit.

So, one of you so-called experts tell
me. Will your bullshit get me more pussy. I have a great time in Brasil, and fuck all types. I have a great time with tons of memories. So all you experts spreading useless, biased, hateful
info, get over yourselves. There's enough pussy for everyone!!!

ryjer

Golfinho
11-05-10, 20:50
Black dude wit money is a King in Brazil.Money doesn't talk, it swears.

"Black dude wit money."

Grandmaster Pimp Dog Daddy gangsta-Puff! You da King! jajaja

Sperto
11-06-10, 00:11
The majority of this thread is all biased bullshit.
I guess that Jackson started this thread so not fill up the other threads with a lot of bs hat doesn't belong there.

IMO "Discrimation against foreigners in Brazil" would be a more suitable threadname. I can't see any racism against gringos.

Sperto
11-06-10, 07:31
"Discrimation against foreigners in Brazil" would be a more suitable threadname.
Discrimination...

Alex Deuce
11-06-10, 15:04
No need to have a Nobel Prize in Economics to kow that the Big White Power is alive and well in Brasil (as everywhere in South America for that matter).

You guys are SO unaware of Brasilian cultural values and facts of life in Brasil. That is pathetic.

Wow "PROSAL" you come to the erroneous conclusion that I did not work in the country for 2+ years nor traveled the world exploring and making money. Mongering is secondary to my experience in Brazil. As an educated professional black man in SaoPaulo, I had more professional blond blue eyed women throwing pussy at me than the law should have allowed. Most of my friends where what we in America would call white. I had no issues going or getting into any club or restaurant. I have had the race talk with person with Doctorates in Sociology, Economics and Business while I worked in Sao Paulo. As I state and they stated Brazil is more about classism than racism. I never said it does not exist. The issue is that most whites cant differentiate. Its a complex issue that most try to make a simple black and white issue. You can argue that most of the upper class are white: however, the differential to the equation is that the entry to upper society is lack of resources mainly education and capital where as in America its mainly skin color .

Now as to tourist racism, It depends on what the perception is for trip. As has been stated and I state: American Black Man in a suit gets treated a whole lot better than a white dude in cargo shorts and flip flops or brother letting his chain hang low. its the same as anywhere else. No country likes to see gringos come fuck thier women. You seen as what you are "Tricks". Since your a supposed expert and have "Connections," pull the crime stats..I Have...Guess what? Most crime by Gringos are by and to caucasian foreigners. Very small <15 percent by non-whites for all categories from Pediophilia, Assault and Battery or Illicit drugs. Hell, the only category that is above 25% is disorderly conduct and most of the complaints are from fellow tourist not locals. STFU about shit you dont understand. Yes Biatch, one of my degrees is sociology. I get paid to help with developing Project plans for capital investments based on actual markets not lecture to mongers on a board. Your a perfect example of when proper Queens English is used to say the dumbest shit.

Prosal
11-06-10, 15:51
As an educated professional black, one of my degrees is sociologyAnd the other one is cretismin?

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=1039951&postcount=4579

Prosal
11-06-10, 16:20
As an educated professional black man in SaoPaulo, I had more professional blond blue eyed women throwing pussy at me than the law should have allowedBTW, all those years in Sampa, and not a SINGLE report, or even a mere adress of a bar, a club or a restaurant, EVER posted on ISG ? (or correct me if I'm wrong)

You seem more prolific when you talk about low-cost mass prostitution meccas such as Rio or Sosua, where I don't doubt you are a regular.

But SP? Weird.

Rastaman
11-07-10, 00:04
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Prosal
11-07-10, 13:11
Spoken like the poor, white trash from Appalachia that you are. Are you in the running for Peckawood of the Year???

Mad that you were rejected for membership in the American Skinhead Society (A.S.S.)???Just browsed your "contribution" here. In eight years here, you've managed to fill up 12 pages worth of offensive rambling racial BS nonsense and of silly questions. Never a report, never an information. For the simple reason that you've obviously never ever stepped a foot out of the ghetto. That said, I sympathize. Heigh years of unemployment must be difficult to live.

Anyway, to apply the old adage "Never argue with a fool – they will drag you down to their level, then beat you Wwith experience", I won't argue with you, nor with your "brotha" cousin AD whose incessant bragging about himself and assertions about imaginery stays and travels makes me wonder if one of his alleged "degrees" is not mythomania.

Bye. And no need to spam my PM box with hateful rambling racial BS.

Alex Deuce
11-07-10, 17:37
And the other one is cretismin?

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=1039951&postcount=4579

Yep, I stand my characterization of you and Europe as being trash.



BTW, all those years in Sampa, and not a SINGLE report, or even a mere adress of a bar, a club or a restaurant, EVER posted on ISG ? (or correct me if I'm wrong)

But SP? Weird.

If you would have continued the research into your attempted character assassination you would recognize I started mongering and created my account no ISG years after I left. As with most professionals "you don't shit where you eat." Also, further research would yield several post where I logged in as "alexdeuce" giving several addresses of clinicas.

As for:



You seem more prolific when you talk about low-cost mass prostitution meccas such as Rio or Sosua, where I don't doubt you are a regular.


Well, those are the places where its affordable at the moment. Lets see, pay 250Euro/$350US in Europe, 250-1000 in USA or $70-150US Max for better service and quality latinas? I have met several members on this board or helped them find locations of play in multiple countries that can more than vouch for my presence in country. Only good monger destination left on my check list is Thailand.

But back to the issue at hand, Well respected and multiple social studies clearly state the situation in Brazil is not simple. Where there is clearly racism there also is little discrimination along racial lines. Discrimination is mainly along lines of perceived class. As Rastaman so eloquently characterized you and your ilk, Brasileiros are just as likely to deny entrance to blond blue eyed euro/trailerPark trash as dark skinned Brasileiros or indians. However an african american in a suite or gold teeth making it rain will get the VIP. HMMMMMMMMMMMM!

Its extremely funny how you tried to deflect by using personal attacks yet never addressed the Classism nor crime stats. Shows your a fraud/

Golfinho
11-07-10, 19:20
But back to the issue at hand, Well respected and multiple social studies clearly state the situation in Brazil is not simple. /Huhn? Wow.

But, you are mostly likely correct in your assessment of Prozzle, who seems to have his nozzle too far up the Pernod bottle to realize that everyone posting here is not doing so exclusively for his personal predilection.

Write whatever you want, even it's totally illiterate. Who cares, as long as the info is accurate.

Rastaman
11-07-10, 21:54
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Sperto
11-07-10, 22:15
Yep, I stand my characterization of you and Europe as being trash.........
Brasileiros are just as likely to deny entrance to blond blue eyed euro/trailerPark trash as dark skinned Brasileiros or indians. However an african american in a suite or gold teeth making it rain will get the VIP.
This thread might not help anybody getting laid, but it sure is amusing.

Prosal
11-07-10, 22:49
Yep, I stand my characterization of Europe as being trashDifficult to argue with such a cultured and cosmopolitan person. Bye. :)

Rock Harders
11-08-10, 04:11
Mongers-

I've spent alot of time in Brasil the last four years and probably have a more thorough experience than most guys with significant time in Brasil because of age, language ability, looks, profession, etc. I can tell you one thing for sure: SOCIOECONOMIC CLASS is the number one indicator of how a person is viewed in Brasil. Brasil has a caste system so rigid that it almost rivals what goes on in India. The public education system in Brasil is horrible and functions as a Catch 22 in many ways (the best Universities are public and free, but passing entrance exam to the University is basically impossible to someone who attended public schools). Race really comes secondary although the darker the skin color in Brasil the lower the socioeconomic class is assumed (this is because there is absolutely no socioeconomic mobility). Hard racism in Brasil is absolutely illegal in Brasil (calling someone a slave or black will get you locked up) and nobody will blink an eye when people of different races are seen out together.

In my experience I have never encountered even the smallest amount of discrimination for being a foreigner. Again some of this may be based on my personal situation; a young nice looking fit guy hanging around with young nice looking fit girls. I have been around most areas of Brasil (Amazon, Bahia, Rio, Buzios, Floripa, Foz, SP, Belo Horizonte, Ouro Preto) and have never been even slightly disrespected. Brasilians have always been very un-arrogant and welcoming.

Sorte,
Rock Harders

Rastaman
11-08-10, 20:36
[Racial Epithet(s) Deleted by Admin]

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Alex Deuce
11-08-10, 23:55
Huhn? Wow.

But, you are mostly likely correct in your assessment of Prozzle, who seems to have his nozzle too far up the Pernod bottle to realize that everyone posting here is not doing so exclusively for his personal predilection.

Write whatever you want, even it's totally illiterate. Who cares, as long as the info is accurate.

I will admit that I don't write well; However, the content is 100% accurate. Racism in Brazil is an extremely complex phenomena and does not fit nicely into pro white camp of world order.

Amerioca
07-19-11, 07:59
Mongers-

I've spent alot of time in Brasil the last four years and probably have a more thorough experience than most guys with significant time in Brasil because of age, language ability, looks, profession, etc. I can tell you one thing for sure: SOCIOECONOMIC CLASS is the number one indicator of how a person is viewed in Brasil. Brasil has a caste system so rigid that it almost rivals what goes on in India. The public education system in Brasil is horrible and functions as a Catch 22 in many ways (the best Universities are public and free, but passing entrance exam to the University is basically impossible to someone who attended public schools). Race really comes secondary although the darker the skin color in Brasil the lower the socioeconomic class is assumed (this is because there is absolutely no socioeconomic mobility). Hard racism in Brasil is absolutely illegal in Brasil (calling someone a slave or black will get you locked up) and nobody will blink an eye when people of different races are seen out together.

In my experience I have never encountered even the smallest amount of discrimination for being a foreigner. Again some of this may be based on my personal situation; a young nice looking fit guy hanging around with young nice looking fit girls. I have been around most areas of Brasil (Amazon, Bahia, Rio, Buzios, Floripa, Foz, SP, Belo Horizonte, Ouro Preto) and have never been even slightly disrespected. Brasilians have always been very un-arrogant and welcoming.

Sorte,

Rock HardersVery good observations made. However, I must state that racism by class is prevalent. At times, Brasilians do not see it or look the other way. The word "dono" is often used to address an owner of property. It is equiv., in meaning, to "master," and is derived from the slavery era. I have attempted to explain this to several Brasilians; however, they seem to rationalize the meaning as a sign of respect. Countering their rationalization, I would question,"Persons with property are more deserving of respect vs. those without?

Poucolouco
07-19-11, 17:20
Very good observations made. However, I must state that racism by class is prevalent. At times, Brasilians do not see it or look the other way. The word "dono" is often used to address an owner of property. It is equiv., in meaning, to "master," and is derived from the slavery era. I have attempted to explain this to several Brasilians; however, they seem to rationalize the meaning as a sign of respect. Countering their rationalization, I would question,"Persons with property are more deserving of respect vs. those without?While I agree with you that class discrimination is common in Brasil, addressing someone as dono (a) or patrão are merely using polite forms of address, similar to the English word sir. Their use does not necessarily connote the person deserves respect. I can deliver your steak, sizzling hot, medium rare, including the lugie that I just spit onto your plate with a smile and a polite comment, 'Sir, here is your order, just as you requested. ' While these words may have ancient threads related to slaves, modern usage does not infer a higher form of respect between classes.

Amerioca
07-19-11, 18:43
While I agree with you that class discrimination is common in Brasil, addressing someone as dono (a) or patrão are merely using polite forms of address, similar to the English word sir. Their use does not necessarily connote the person deserves respect. I can deliver your steak, sizzling hot, medium rare, including the lugie that I just spit onto your plate with a smile and a polite comment, 'Sir, here is your order, just as you requested. ' While these words may have ancient threads related to slaves, modern usage does not infer a higher form of respect between classes.The literal translation of sir is senhor. The literal translation of dono is owner. The literal translation of patrão is boss.

With your example, using literal translation,"Owner, here is your order, just as you requested." In most developed countries (English speaking) , the waiter or waitress would be offended should one advise and / or instruct to be addressed by such. Explaining that the title is no different than "sir" and is "polite" would likely be met with anger. Certainly, I would expect a nasty lugie in your dish.

Perhaps, the societal interpretation and usage of dono may have changed in recent times, much like the use of "nigger" in the U.S. It is all too common to hear "[Racial Epithet Deleted by Admin]" being used in modern American society to address an individual/person (of any ethnic background). What we are witnessing is a definition transformation into one of social acceptability.

Historically, I would not consider our most recent affair with slavery, in the mid-19th century, to be "ancient."

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Poucolouco
07-19-11, 19:03
The literal translation of sir is senhor. The literal translation of dono is owner. The literal translation of patrão is boss.

With your example, using literal translation,"Owner / Master, here is your order, just as you requested." In most developed countries (English speaking) , the waiter or waitress would be offended should one advise and / or instruct to be addressed by such. Explaining that the title is no different than "sir" and is "polite" would likely be met with anger. Certainly, I would expect a lugie in your dish.

The slavery time-line would not consider the mid-19th century to be "ancient."Excuse me, no offense intended. I did not make a literal translation but only commented on polite versus respectful forms of address. My English example was merely making a polite statement while not being respectful to the person being addressed. It was not intended to be a literal translation of portuguese. Peace.

Golfinho
07-19-11, 19:33
I've spent alot of time in Brasil the last four years and probably have a more thorough experience than most guysHave a more thorough experience? Of course you do, so long as you think so.

Mix it up with Brasilians who spent alot of time in the USA the last four years and see if they don't get a read on who you are and where you are on the food chain, then see how much respect you merit.

Poucolouco
07-19-11, 22:37
I notice that you amended your post subsequent to my response. In my experience, the use of the 'en' word is repugnant to most people of all races. While Chris Rock and Chris Brown may use this word in their performances, I hope society in general does not view the political incorrectness of these performers as models for what is socially acceptable.

The Cane
07-19-11, 22:57
Like in many, many other countries around the world, racism is alive and well in Brazil. There's a reason why the blacks and the dark browns populate the majority of the lower rungs of the socioeconomic order, while the lighter ones hold the majority of the higher economic status. That said, I have to say that I have never experienced any racism perpetrated towards me by a Brazilian in any way, shape, or form. That happens to be one of the many reasons why I love the place. I can be in some other land only half a day and not feel comfortable!

I do realize that going down there as a free-spending tourist and staying out of trouble while keeping my nose clean certainly makes a difference in how I'm treated. But then again, there are some countries where you can go where your money won't mean a damn thing. You'll be treated like less than something equal, and that's that. I don't go to those countries! I think I could be quite happy being an upper-middle class Brazilian. Come to think of it, I would be quite happy being an upper-middle class anything! Hahaha!

The other thing I have to realize is that even if I have been to Brazil many times, you're only going to see so much as a tourist versus somebody who lives and works there every day. I know some people like that (white Americans) who have told me that racism in Brazil can be quite overt and extremely ugly, with the view getting uglier and uglier the more you travel to the South of the country. I've also heard that it can be pretty bad in the far Northeast where people of color make up a large majority of the population, but are still discriminated against and feared as criminals, et cetera by many whites.

I think Rio has the reputation of being the most egalitarian big city in the country, and indeed one of the most egalitarian places in the world. I still haven't decided if the "marvelous city" exactly deserves that reputation or not. I'll just leave it like this. Rio has been very, very good to me! LOL!

Mr Enternational
07-19-11, 23:08
Very good observations made. However, I must state that racism by class is prevalent. At times, Brasilians do not see it or look the other way. The word "dono" is often used to address an owner of property. It is equiv., in meaning, to "master," and is derived from the slavery era. I have attempted to explain this to several Brasilians; however, they seem to rationalize the meaning as a sign of respect. Countering their rationalization, I would question,"Persons with property are more deserving of respect vs. those without?Hmmm. I have never heard this word used as you are seeming to imply. The only way I have heard it used in Portuguese and in Spanish is the way you first mentioned, which was dono da casa or dono of a business when one person was talking to another in reference to someone else. I have never heard anyone say meu dono as in my owner or use the title directly intended for a person to whom they are speaking. I do agree though that racism is prevalent in Brasil. It's usually the whites who may try to ignore it, but to the blacks it is apparent.

LittleTruths
07-20-11, 01:03
The word "dono" is often used to address an owner of property. It is equiv., in meaning, to "master," and is derived from the slavery era. I have attempted to explain this to several Brasilians; however, they seem to rationalize the meaning as a sign of respect. Countering their rationalization, I would question,"Persons with property are more deserving of respect vs. those without?Sorry but this is the typical over-rationalization that keeps americans from calling things with their own name for the sake of political correctness.

It is complete and utter bullshit tho. Also, it shows you got issues.

"Dono" as you put it, means "owner"; plain and simple.

If you own some shit than you're the boss of it and that's it.

Bless.

P. S / This might easily be the most amusing thread ever seen on ISG. Keep up the good work I say!

Sperto
07-21-11, 13:49
Right, "Dona" is used in a meaning as a sign of respect. You can use it when you want to be polite to older people or when you want to kiss kiss someone's ass.

E. G: Let say you want to rent an apartment from "Maria". If you want to give her a good impression you address her as "Dona Maria".