Philippine politics and economics [Archive] - Page 2

GoodEnough

05-17-16, 01:28

If you lived in the country like some contributors do you understand why this is not newsworthy and why his style is seen as popular. Davao is one of the only cities in the Philippines where my ladies feel safe to walk at night. Try in it Divorsoria for example and then you may decide that this comment is not disturbing but needed. Or ask the parents who kids are ruined by shabu (92% of Manila barangays are reportedly swimming in drugs) what they prefer. The only mothers I read about complaining are those whose sons are drug dealers.

Live here first before being too righteous (GE's FR was excellent on this in a longer format).The death penalty exists in some states in the US, and is used with some frequency in Texas. However numerous studies appear to indicate that it's ineffective as a deterrent to crime. Nevertheless, as WR has pointed out, this country is a sea of criminality that extends from barangay captains and to every branch of the government and civil service; street crime is also rampant and the criminal justice system is thoroughly corrupt, and I can understand, in that context, why the reimposition of the death penalty would appear to be an appropriate response. Say what you will about human rights violations, but petty crime as such in Davao is minimal, and though illegal drugs continue to exist here as everywhere, their presence isn't obvious, and drug dealers have very short careers.

Duterte fully understands that safety, security and peace are the prerequisites to sustained development. Whether he will be able to achieve the same level of safety in the rest of the country as he's achieved in Davao remains to be seen but there's no doubt that's what Filipinos would like him to achieve. He told me, a short two months ago that people in Metro Manila have lost control of their own streets and I believe that to be true. He's committed to taking back control.

GE.

Dg8787

05-17-16, 01:54

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36297583Enlightening to over 12 million Filipino voters.

I (an outsider) find the death penalty a little more balanced now. Before it was one sided against the victims. Then again we are only outsiders.

GE, the death penalty may not be a deterrent but it does stop repeaters.

Mogwai

05-17-16, 08:32

If you lived in the country like some contributors do you understand why this is not newsworthy and why his style is seen as popular. Davao is one of the only cities in the Philippines where my ladies feel safe to walk at night. Try in it Divorsoria for example and then you may decide that this comment is not disturbing but needed. Or ask the parents who kids are ruined by shabu (92% of Manila barangays are reportedly swimming in drugs) what they prefer. The only mothers I read about complaining are those whose sons are drug dealers.

Live here first before being too righteous (GE's FR was excellent on this in a longer format).Of course I would be better informed and have a better understanding about what's going in the Phils when I would live there. But that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. We all have opinions about what's going on somewhere else in the world, don't we?
It's just that I don't like 'strong men' like Duterte and that I'm afraid the police is going to kill anybody who gets in their way and not just drug dealers and organised criminals. They will be judge, jury and executioner which is never a good thing.
And I'm also afraid Duterte is going to lock up or even kill political opponents and other people who don't agree with his plans or methods.

I realize drastic measures are necessary in the Phils. But Duterte could at least try to do it in a more 'clean' way with respect to human rights.
One of my regulars voted for him but she said to me: I hope he will not kill people but give them a second chance. But of course that's the opinion of just one Filipina.

Shining Wit

05-20-16, 19:46

This was in today's London Daily Telegraph that I was reading over a glass of lunch, and I thought I would share.

Melbourne retained its place at the top of Deutsche Bank's annual Sin Index, costing $66.90 for 5 beers and 2 packs of cigarettes. The report declared Manila to be the cheapest city in the world at just $11.60.

Zurich appears at the to of Deutsche's Cheap date index at $201 for a date, including cab rides, a meal for 2 at a pub or diner, soft drinks,2 cinema tickets and a couple of beers. 'For those wanting a real cheap 'cheap date', India Indonesia, the Philippines and South Africa are the places to go' wrote Deutsche strategist Jim Reid, author of the report. 'Indeed, in all of these places you can have at least four dates for the price of one in Zurich. But please don't tell the other three people. ' Knew it couldn't be a German writing it.

So there you are. But does it take a highly paid city analyst to work it out?

Blanquiceleste

05-21-16, 08:30

Cons68

05-22-16, 16:50

Philippines is closer to a failed state than many people realize, there are large areas that are controlled by the local strong man, with state presence being purely testimonial. Some of the things going on in Mindanao for example are reminiscent of what happens in Pakistan, where the land owners deliver the votes of the people living in their properties. These circumstance make the political system just a travesty of democracy.

The only reason you can get the niceties of due process and habeas corpus in the west it is because crime is, in spite of all the tabloids efforts, a rare occurrence and the resources that can be poured to fix any wrong situation are vastly greater than what can be done here.

I think the current president has probably been one of the best they had but any improvements have failed to impact the poorest sections of society. There are way too many things that need to be fixed starting with birth rate and that takes time.

I am myself quite skeptical of the strong man approach, after all Marcos left quite a messed up place, but then again I am not known for being optimistic about anything.

Of course I would be better informed and have a better understanding about what's going in the Phils when I would live there. But that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. We all have opinions about what's going on somewhere else in the world, don't we?
It's just that I don't like 'strong men' like Duterte and that I'm afraid the police is going to kill anybody who gets in their way and not just drug dealers and organised criminals. They will be judge, jury and executioner which is never a good thing.
And I'm also afraid Duterte is going to lock up or even kill political opponents and other people who don't agree with his plans or methods.

I realize drastic measures are necessary in the Phils. But Duterte could at least try to do it in a more 'clean' way with respect to human rights.
One of my regulars voted for him but she said to me: I hope he will not kill people but give them a second chance. But of course that's the opinion of just one Filipina.

Asian Rain

05-22-16, 18:38

These circumstance make the political system just a travesty of democracy.Democracy is the ILLUSION OF CHOICE between the haves and have nots. If you are following the antics playing out on CNN, it has never been more transparent in history how the system is set up to preserve the establishment. How would an American explain a "superdelgate" or a "SuperPAC" to a Filipino? Talk about "travesty of democracy" huh. Yes, the developed countries keep it less obvious than doling out bags of rice and free t-shirts, but the end result is the same. Nobody really paid attention to these things until Donald and Bernie started stirring things in their respective parties.

My American friend told me he stopped voting abroad after the completely rigged Bush-Gore election (remember the negative vote counts Gore got in some counties in Florida?) after he found out that votes made abroad are not actually counted until weeks after the election. Nobody would have thought that until the Florida mess.

This all means precisely nothing unless you are one of the "haves" of the worlds. I guarantee 100% of the posters on this board do not fit into this category. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. Don't kid yourself that the system you are living under is any better, unless "relatively better" helps you rationalize. Enjoy, AsianRain.

GoodEnough

05-22-16, 23:30

Interesting posts from AR and Cons, on the political dynamics of this country and the differences in that sphere between the Philippines and so-called developed democracies. In the case of the US, I agree that the political system, which has become so intertwined with big money and Hollywood that the three are often indistinguishable, has degenerated into a corrupt, rigged pretext of democracy. I'm not sure this is true of all European countries as the smaller, prosperous countries of Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Switzerland appear far less corrupt, more humane and more fully democratic. The same is true, at least as far as I know, for Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Contending however that there's no fundamental difference between corruption in the US and the pervasive corruption that exists here is to posit a false equivalency. As one example, corruption here is metastatic and permeates virtually all aspects of life, from barangay captains to provincial officials to national officials and bureaucrats. About the only reason that individuals enter politics here is to enrich themselves. Second, this has always been, and remains a quasi-feudal society with so-called "traditional" leaders exercising almost total control over their fiefdoms. Thirdly, the cultural identity and social-political loyalties of a huge portion of the population are defined by tribe, clan and geography to a far greater extent than other countries in which I've lived or worked, which means that despite national edicts, laws and institutions the actual power of the national government often stops at the borders of Metro Manila. Finally, many of the national governmental institutions are dysfunctional to an extent rarely seen in the West; they lack appropriate systems, means of communication, resources and clear mandates. This is starkly evident in the case of the justice system.

A few weeks ago, I posted a link to a paper from one of the think tanks, which enumerated the criteria for categorizing failed states. The Philippines was listed as a state in danger of failure, but not yet there, and it's easy to understand why. However, I would argue that the recent election should give Filipinos and those who live or frequently visit here reason for optimism. Not necessarily because Duterte was elected, but because, for perhaps the first time, the people of this country, acting en masse were able to defy--rather convincingly--the political elite, the Catholic Church, the corrupt local leaders, and the rest of the corrupt machinery that attempted futilely to sabotage the election. This was perhaps the first time in the history of the country that democracy actually worked, and actually expressed the will of the people. Granted the usual subterfuge took place at virtually all levels below that of the Presidency, but the election perhaps also demonstrated that the people of this country are fed up with business as usual, and have begun to awaken from a very long stupor.

I've got no idea (and neither does anyone else) what kind of President Mr. Duterte will turn out to be. But for the first time in my experience here, I sense some real hope on the part of the body politic, and some pride in knowing that the voices of average Filipinos were heard.

GE.

Golfinho

05-23-16, 00:12

Contending however that there's no fundamental difference between corruption in the US and the pervasive corruption that exists here is to posit a false equivalency. As one example, corruption here is metastatic and permeates virtually all aspects of life, from barangay captains to provincial officials to national officials and bureaucrats.

. Thirdly, the cultural identity and social-political loyalties of a huge portion of the population are defined by tribe, clan and geography to a far greater extent than other countries in which I've lived or worked,
GE.Yes, big difference: corruption in the USA has been legalized, with corporatism metastasized and permeating virtually all.

Thirdly: social-political loyalties in USA have been especially stark in current and recent election cycles, viz. The 'black vote'.

Pantot

05-23-16, 01:03

Duterte fully understands that safety, security and peace are the prerequisites to sustained development. Whether he will be able to achieve the same level of safety in the rest of the country as he's achieved in Davao remains to be seen but there's no doubt that's what Filipinos would like him to achieve. He told me, a short two months ago that people in Metro Manila have lost control of their own streets and I believe that to be true. He's committed to taking back control.

GE.Damn you talked to Duterte personally? Thats some serious inside info. Maybe he will make you the Phils ambassador to ISG heheh keep us posted!.

I don't have the extensive experence in Davao that you do but I have visited there many times over the past few years, and agree it is an oasis of civil order compared to the cesspool that is metro Manila.

As a visitor I never realized it has all the result of a strongman leader with supposed death squads ruling with that famous fist. Davao is modern and orderly as a Phils place can be but not oppressive in the least.

My first blush is that if the wealthy families cannot quickly co-opt him, unlikely hopefully, they will deluge him from the get go with 'corruption' charges trumped up from the sclerotic legislative and judicial branches. He will need to have good personal protection at any rate. The monied in the Phils have a 100% track record at total control in the post Marcos era in protecting their respective turfs.

GoodEnough

05-23-16, 04:11

Damn you talked to Duterte personally? Thats some serious inside info. Maybe he will make you the Phils ambassador to ISG heheh keep us posted!.

I don't have the extensive experence in Davao that you do but I have visited there many times over the past few years, and agree it is an oasis of civil order compared to the cesspool that is metro Manila.

As a visitor I never realized it has all the result of a strongman leader with supposed death squads ruling with that famous fist. Davao is modern and orderly as a Phils place can be but not oppressive in the least.
Meeting him was pretty cool as there were only four of us at dinner, including the Mayor, so it was pretty easy to speak directly with him. I've now lived in Davao for about 13 years--longer than I had first thought--and having worked helping to manage a huge US Government project for much of that time, it's not surprising that I met lots of reasonably well connected people, one of whom, with whom, I've retained frequent contact, called me out of the blue one day and asked if I wanted to have dinner with Duterte. Of course I leapt at the chance. He was charming, gracious and very soft spoken.

Thanks for providing your perspective on Davao. I've never felt it oppressive in the least. As a foreigner, I've never been treated less than politely but then again most of the people I know here are Filipinos many of whom have provided me windows into their culture. Unsurprisingly, many of these guys are longstanding members of Duterte's inner circle.

GE.

Pantot

05-24-16, 03:42

Meeting him was pretty cool as there were only four of us at dinner, including the Mayor, so it was pretty easy to speak directly with him. I've now lived in Davao for about 13 years--longer than I had first thought--and having worked helping to manage a huge US Government project for much of that time, it's not surprising that I met lots of reasonably well connected people, one of whom, with whom, I've retained frequent contact, called me out of the blue one day and asked if I wanted to have dinner with Duterte. Of course I leapt at the chance. He was charming, gracious and very soft spoken.

Thanks for providing your perspective on Davao. I've never felt it oppressive in the least. As a foreigner, I've never been treated less than politely but then again most of the people I know here are Filipinos many of whom have provided me windows into their culture. Unsurprisingly, many of these guys are longstanding members of Duterte's inner circle.

GE.Yes my experiences are so limited compared to yours thanks. But I will say all my Davao girls like Duterte when I asked them. My 'girls' are not connected by any means.

I wonder how much of Dutertes law and order success is due to bluster and actual honest management while leveraging the concept of death squads. I would hazard a guess that the Phils populace yearns for a benevolant dictator. Apparently Duterte accomplished that over the past 2 decades. I saw the same thing on a much smaller scale in a much more primitive town Puerto Princessa where Hagedorn had great success and great approval ratings while imposing all sorts of strict, Phils wise, rules, on the people which they embraced wholeheartedly.

Outside of Manila the people are yearning for an honest government that doesn't milk them and provides some simple services, they welcome some sense of minor order as opposed to the normal chaos.

BeersTerry

05-24-16, 11:27

Slippery

05-24-16, 11:30

I've haven't been around this website since I moved to Davao from Manila. In going through some old but recent posts here, GE remarked that in Manila, people have lost control of their own streets. When we lived in Manila, we had some control within 100 yards of the front door of the condo building as there was a barangay office and barangay police, each within 100 yards, but literally turn any corner, and it turned to crap instantly. And I was in a good part of Manila!

Here in Davao, I've encountered exactly one beggar in three months. I've seen three people sleeping on a street, and it appeared to be a mother with her two young children. It's a completely different world down here. What Dutarte brought to this city is stunningly obvious compared to Manila. It's civilized, and that's all I wanted in my waning years, and my girlfriend is just tickled pink that we're here and not in Manila.

There are some great places for dinner and drinks, but whorism is way way on the down low. Wish I'd have started out in this city eight years ago.

Sam 14

05-24-16, 12:41

<Snip> Here in Davao, I've encountered exactly one beggar in three months. I've seen three people sleeping on a street, and it appeared to be a mother with her two young children. It's a completely different world down here. What Dutarte brought to this city is stunningly obvious compared to Manila. It's civilized, and that's all I wanted in my waning years, and my girlfriend is just tickled pink that we're here and not in Manila. Thanks for your view Slippery. I don't mean to discredit or disagree with what you wrote. But all I have to go is go to the parking area at GMall or anywhere in Uyungarin or the small Gaisano and I'll have a handful of kids begging. There's a woman that stands out front and grabs people's arm as they walk by. There's guys sitting on the overpasses, etc. The begging isn't very widespread and they are not usually aggressive. The kids do act like they are watching the motorcycles, which is nice, but I've caught them getting under the unlocked seats and taking coins. No big deal. But all over Downtown (including across the street from the big Catholic church), there's people sleeping all over the sidewalks. All up and down Magallanes, San Pedro, San Pedro Plaza, the roundabout, and most streets Downtown. In fact, up by the public market on Magallanes street, driving down the middle of the highway, you can't help but notice the strong smell of [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140). Again, I don't mean to disagree with your assessment, and I don't have Manila to use as a comparison point. Your GF must be doing a great job keeping you off the streets! Right on. :-)

Sxxxx

05-31-16, 13:09

I just saw a post elections Duturte Documentary on TV. Interviewer seemed to be Chinese-Filipino based in America (guess only).

In one section Duturte was surrounded by hookers, hugging him etc. And he said words to the effect he has "nothing against prostitutes, they have no job".

If he sticks to that, he won't be an impediment to our hobby?

Looking good, so far.

Hutsori

06-01-16, 07:36

If he sticks to that, he won't be an impediment to our hobby?

My concern is that he brings himself to the forefront of international activists' attention by being so verbose. You can already see the number of Philippines articles in the international press has grown, and most of them are about his statements. Of course readers get confused - I've read comments by people who think Duterte raped the Australian missionary. Yes, his comments have been about criminals and journalists and not prostitution, but to anti-prostitution activist this difference doesn't matter much. He's repellant in these areas, so it's inevitable he's repellant everywhere else. His harassment of journalists will make it impossible to report on social issues. Yada yada. A lot of catastrophising, but it gets attention, and with that comes money and influence.

Foreign activists start moaning publicly to their governments about his behavior (and I'm sure the Catholic Church works behind the scenes to voice its criticism, too) and demand foreign aid ought to be reduced or withheld until he repents and conforms to their expectations, which often requires acts. Foreigners are an easy target. In addition to the calamity assistance, there is a huge sum donated for many other projects. I reckon Duterte's natural impulse would be to tell the donors to sod off, yet aid is billions of dollars, and a portion of it finds its way into politicians' hands. So, Duterte would face pressure from donor governments, journalists, NGOs, and local politicians.

Amavida

06-01-16, 13:15

Having just returned, Davao City is like another country compared to the other parts visited. The streets are clean, the taxi drivers honest. I found the level of service a little bit better also. Most importantly, people are afraid to commit crimes and work honestly. What a concept.

Compare that to Manila where every other cabbie is scamming. Who wants to argue over cab fares and that they should use the meter.

The Philippines is a third world country because they have a third world mentality. Duterte seems to have broken that cycle somewhat in Davao. Now can he do it in the rest of the country?Having seen it myself I agree Davao is tidy but before we get carried away attributing it all to Duterte, I compare it to, say, Dipolog which has smartened up considerably in the past decade. Even Manila, which is what it is, is relatively improved over that time span. I will never understand all the hate on Manila cabbies? The majority are ok & best way to deal with the rogues is just laugh at their nonsense honestly. Now if you want to talk about AC trike drivers I'm very sympathetic.

AV.

GoodEnough

06-02-16, 06:30

Having seen it myself I agree Davao is tidy but before we get carried away attributing it all to Duterte, I compare it to, say, Dipolog which has smartened up considerably in the past decade. Even Manila, which is what it is, is relatively improved over that time span. I will never understand all the hate on Manila cabbies? The majority are ok & best way to deal with the rogues is just laugh at their nonsense honestly. Now if you want to talk about AC trike drivers I'm very sympathetic.

AV.Most of the people with whom I speak here are Filipinos, not expats. Their concerns have little to do with rogue taxi drivers, and more to do with physical safety in the streets of Manila. The fact is that riding jeepneys here is threatening for many, coho have robbed at knifepoint of jewelry, money and cell phones. Crime statistics do not support, I believe, the notion that life is getting better in Manila. Armed robbery and petty street crime, while not eliminated in Davao or anywhere else, are much less likely. People simply don't tend to get robbed on Davao's streets or in its jeepneys. There's simply far less fear.

GE.

Slippery

06-02-16, 14:28

Sam 14: Yes, I've been through where you describe, and indeed it's not like where I'm living.

Amavida

06-07-16, 04:30

Most of the people with whom I speak here are Filipinos, not expats. Their concerns have little to do with rogue taxi drivers, and more to do with physical safety in the streets of Manila. The fact is that riding jeepneys here is threatening for many, coho have robbed at knifepoint of jewelry, money and cell phones. Crime statistics do not support, I believe, the notion that life is getting better in Manila. Armed robbery and petty street crime, while not eliminated in Davao or anywhere else, are much less likely. People simply don't tend to get robbed on Davao's streets or in its jeepneys. There's simply far less fear.

GE.After Saturday's speech the body count in the streets is escalating.

Duterte's encouragement of vigilantism is being ramped up rather than dialled back. This is terribly irresponsible. The danger from rebel groups will be soon exceeded by anarchic vigilante violence in the streets if Duterte continues with this insanity. Vigilantism will reach a tipping point where the poorly resourced 'authorities' are overwhelmed.

Anarchy is not good for business so wonder how long before the top Famillies put a bullet in Duterte?

AV.

Red Kilt

06-07-16, 05:23

After Saturday's speech the body count in the streets is escalating.

Duterte's encouragement of vigilantism is being ramped up rather than dialled back. This is terribly irresponsible. The danger from rebel groups will be soon exceeded by anarchic vigilante violence in the streets if Duterte continues with this insanity. Vigilantism will reach a tipping point where the poorly resourced 'authorities' are overwhelmed.

Anarchy is not good for business so wonder how long before the top Famillies put a bullet in Duterte? I have deliberately avoided commenting on the political situation at present apart from agreeing with AV's post on the Davao thread that we who dwell here are waiting to see what is going to happen.

However, I must say that the pronouncements allegedly made by the incoming President during this past week and reported in the press have caused me a great deal of concern.

It's almost like carte blanche has been given to all and sundry to administer their own version of the law (wrt drug pushers and dealers), and it's a small step for others to extrapolate that their own forms of justice can be dealt out to any "law-breakers". He keeps talking about bypassing the courts.

I hope it's just hyperbole and when the new President is "in the chair" he will dial back these exhortations to something more reasonable so that people will not be incited to administer their own forms of punishment.

GoodEnough

06-08-16, 00:29

Wicked Roger

06-08-16, 04:03

I too am uneasy about what appears to be rising vigilantism, though I'm hoping that a few incidents don't reflect a trend. On the "better news" side of the ledger, the incoming President announced recently that virtually all government revenues stemming from the legal gambling industry will be channeled to the Health and Education sectors, both of which are in dire need of additional funding. So for me the recent public announcements represent a mixed bag.

GE.I think the media will focus on the killings to sensationalize this aspect of Rody not the good stuff about the Pagcor revenue that GE noted. The media today spoke of a list of killings and did a 'body count' so far. It does not mention too much the good side of the ledger. Someone I was speaking with said the media are in many quarters very biased LP part member so what would anyone expect. He said it was just like Fox news 'report the facts" LOL.

However those I know still speak glowingly of Rody as President and are unperturbed by the killings many like the idea. It has not been helped by self serving mayors jumping on the band wagon (and jumping political allegiances at the same time) and offering 50000 pesos reward to police for killing drug lords etc in Cebu (Tommy Osmena mayor elect has done this).

His other pronouncements have been welcome by those I know such as the curfew, the smoking ban (I know a few ISGers who seriously don't like this law LOL). His scrap with the Catholic church is amusing many (some of my friends say it is about time some one told th church to butt out of politics and stop being hypocrites).

So to date the "good ledger" outweighs the bad in the eyes of many IMHO (based on who I speak with).

I think people need to wait until he is President as at present there is a lot of hype and he has said he is enjoying his last few weeks of being rude LOL.

GoodEnough

06-08-16, 04:38

Amavida

06-12-16, 13:58

Duterte talks up economic reform including floating the possibility of relaxing foreign investment laws & pushing the church out of domestic politics. Hurrah for Rody! On the other hand we have hints of Marcos era martial law returning via curfews etc. Outgoing president exhorting the populace to defend freedom & democracy. Not comforting.

Manila's finest have taken it upon themselves to start detaining hundreds of adults & children from the streets. Reports of children being pulled from the arms of adults are very concerning. Anyone who knows Manila is familiar with periodic round ups of street kids, nothing new. Typically they are released shortly after or taken to overcrowded centres.

Nobody would argue that the slums of Manila are a problem but under the influence of Duterte's extreme views I see chilling parallels to Brazil's death squads roaming slums & 'disappearing' people as a very real possibility.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the killings & detentions have started.

Wait & see? This could get real ugly very quickly.

Hope I look back in six months time & laugh at this post.

Hope.

AV.

WestCoast1

06-12-16, 15:22

Bit more for you:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/philippines-gets-taste-duterte-anti-025100626.html

Wicked Roger

06-12-16, 17:36

Duterte talks up economic reform including floating the possibility of relaxing foreign investment laws & pushing the church out of domestic politics. Hurrah for Rody! On the other hand we have hints of Marcos era martial law returning via curfews etc. Outgoing president exhorting the populace to defend freedom & democracy. Not comforting.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the killings & detentions have started.

Wait & see? This could get real ugly very quickly.

Hope I look back in six months time & laugh at this post.

Hope.

AV.AV,

For those who I speak with they see much more positive in the new President and many are happy he is killing the duggies as they all see how bad t is. There was a documentary on Bilibid last night and this shocked a few of my friends who saw it prompting some to say the new President should sort that issue out fast (IE kill all the drug lords as "who cares they are bad people".

While many decry the killings o the thread the pinoys I speak with are happy that someone is taking a stand and hope the elite families will get their just desserts at the same time.

We can't see the Philippines through a western eyes as many other contributors have noted before me. For many I know he is the best many and his overwhelming vote count tends to suggest they expect to carry out what he promises.

Just get snuggled up with a few cuts to avoid the carnage would be my advice to anyone concerned LOL.

Wicked Roger

06-12-16, 17:39

Resolution of the vast range of problems impeding progress in this country will not prove a simple task nor, I believe prove feasible in a period of six years. As one example, here's an excellent column that appeared in today's "Philippine Inquirer. " http://opinion.inquirer.net/95105/unsolicited-advice-president-duterte.

As someone who has a company here and who has tried to comply with the myriad of often conflicting rules and regulations, I can only hope that the new President makes bureaucratic reform one of his high priority items.

GE.Good read GE.

Friend of mine decided against establishing his new company in the country (he went to Malaysia and Thailand in stead) for the reasons you are so acutely aware of and noted I that article. The country has slipped so far behind most economic / business metric compared with its ASEAN rivals I see change as necessary but the am sure there will be huge resistance as it would mean the end of numerous scams to fleece the businessmen.

Amavida

06-18-16, 05:49

AV,

For those who I speak with they see much more positive in the new President and many are happy he is killing the duggies as they all see how bad t is. There was a documentary on Bilibid last night and this shocked a few of my friends who saw it prompting some to say the new President should sort that issue out fast (IE kill all the drug lords as "who cares they are bad people".

While many decry the killings o the thread the pinoys I speak with are happy that someone is taking a stand and hope the elite families will get their just desserts at the same time.

We can't see the Philippines through a western eyes as many other contributors have noted before me. For many I know he is the best many and his overwhelming vote count tends to suggest they expect to carry out what he promises.

Just get snuggled up with a few cuts to avoid the carnage would be my advice to anyone concerned LOL.Abandoning the rule of law is a very slippery slope.

I'll say no more.

AV.

X Man

06-18-16, 09:20

The rule of law is a bit spotty in the Philippines, which is part of the problem. I'm young enough to remember reading headlines in a California newspaper about the assassination of the current PM's father. Let's hope for the best.

Abandoning the rule of law is a very slippery slope.

I'll say no more.

AV.

Wicked Roger

06-18-16, 13:50

The rule of law is a bit spotty in the Philippines, .Spotty is a gross understatement IMHO, there is one for the elite families and one for the normal people whoa re usually the ONS to get screwed when things happen vis a vis the recent US $81 mn cyber crime that was flushed through the Philippine bank / casinos. The branch manager is facing serious charges other much higher up management team who must have known IMHO as a mere branch manager just does not have that authority to clear US $81 mn, are left to enjoy any ill gained loot.

In many countries it could be a slippery slope AV but this is the Philippines where western norms don't apply many times and the slope is already so oily that many are slipping and sliding already.

Amavida

06-19-16, 01:38

Spotty is a gross understatement IMHO, there is one for the elite families and one for the normal people whoa re usually the ONS to get screwed when things happen vis a vis the recent US $81 mn cyber crime that was flushed through the Philippine bank / casinos. The branch manager is facing serious charges other much higher up management team who must have known IMHO as a mere branch manager just does not have that authority to clear US $81 mn, are left to enjoy any ill gained loot.

In many countries it could be a slippery slope AV but this is the Philippines where western norms don't apply many times and the slope is already so oily that many are slipping and sliding already.Bearing in mind my 10 years here, this advice is redundant.

On a recently published 'Peace Index' PI rated 139th on a list of 163. Just above Israel etc so we are talking about starting from a low base to begin with.

I'm not going to bore people repeating my opinion of the new pres wild eyed 'policies'.

Thanks for lecturing me.

AV.

Amavida

06-22-16, 03:39

Not tried or convicted.

Gunned down on mere suspicion.

No rule of law now.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/06/22/1595451/7-more-drug-suspects-killed

AV.

GoodEnough

06-22-16, 04:07

Not tried or convicted.

Gunned down on mere suspicion.

No rule of law now.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/06/22/1595451/7-more-drug-suspects-killed

AV.This sort of stuff has been going on for years, though unreported for the most part. The only difference between "now" and "then" is that the killings are getting more publicity. The statement that there's "No rule of law now," is misleading, as it implies that it existed in the recent past; in fact, there's never been a rule of law as most of us understand the term. The application of "law" remains as it's always been; a matter of geography, political connections, social class and money. For example, there was an article in today's "Inquirer" matter of factly discussing that a number of expensive, whole body scanners and suspicious liquid detection devices, on which millions of pesos had been spent, had never been installed, and it appears that no one knows where they are. This, despite the fact that the money was spent, and airport authorities had reported (falsely) that they had been installed. I'm guessing that they will never be found--and were never actually procured--and that the money expended on them will never be traced. Further, a substantial portion of the $81 million stolen from Bangladesh has "disappeared," and is likely never to be recovered. Nor have those responsible for the theft of the funds--aside from a lowly bank branch manager with no authority to approve such transfers--no higher ups have been identified nor held accountable. The list of similar transactions, all of which occurred well prior to Duterte's ascension to the presidency is almost endless.

I believe that Duterte's election will, in the not-so-long run prove to be one of the best, most seminal events to impact this country. His determination to de-centralize economic centers, his strong focus on poverty alleviation through integrated agrarian reform, his commitment to federalism, and his determination to make the country more investor friendly are going to pay both short and long-term dividends to this country, at least in my opinion. Further, he's now focused on accelerating the pace of public-private (BOO / BOT) infrastructure projects, and I firmly believe that during his administration the long-neglected "big" infrastructure projects will--after decades of neglect and inaction--get off the ground.

I had an interesting meeting last week with the new Secretary of Agriculture here, someone I've known for a long time, and he shared with me the outline of the President's (and his) Agriculture development strategy, which is sound, rational and should result in immediate positive impacts on small farmers. Evidently the initial funding has already been committed.

Radical, fundamental change is often painful and almost always wrenching. In the case of the Philippines, the new President is faced with the daunting task of changing institutional practices and privileges that have developed over more than 5 centuries. In my view, he's made a good start and he's not yet even assumed office. I believe that this is an exciting time to be here, fraught with some danger but also with enormous potential and most of the Filipinos I know and with whom I work are not only enthusiastic about the possibility of positive change, but are also ardent supporters of the effort.

GE.

Wicked Roger

06-22-16, 06:40

Not tried or convicted.

Gunned down on mere suspicion.

No rule of law now.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/06/22/1595451/7-more-drug-suspects-killed

AV.People are in jail for many years no conviction etc,. This has been going for years as GE says, many foreigners have been gunned down / murdered and few are caught.

As this is the new President the media will focus as many dot like him as they are from the rich elite IMHO and he is not. Hence his view to restrict media events and use the public broadcaster to say everything in case he is misread in any way.

When this was happening before AV why was there no outcry from you or anyone else.

I agree with GE's view as do 99% of pinays I speak with about the new President. "This is good for the country" I am told, "about time" others say. Jaguar the Visaya drug lord was killed recently (headline news). He was never charged with anything and when police raided his place in Cebu surprisingly no one was there and bugger all drugs were found (well a small amount). So his killing is bad for the country and that you think rampant drug use is acceptable AV? While this is not how civilized places may do things, this is how the Philippines does and has become because of the cancer of corruption throughout society, people have immunity (well the rich certainly).

So if you don't like it this turn of events maybe leave the Philippines. Can't see how this effects you. I have worked in far more dangerous places than this and I am not worried about things. I take my leave from my pinoy friends who welcome this way of crime reduction LOL.

Hutsori

06-22-16, 10:53

This sort of stuff has been going on for years, though unreported for the most part. The only difference between "now" and "then" is that the killings are getting more publicity. The statement that there's "No rule of law now," is misleading, as it implies that it existed in the recent past; in fact, there's never been a rule of law as most of us understand the term. The application of "law" remains as it's always been; a matter of geography, political connections, social class and money.
Correct. Most third-world countries are rule-by-law and not rule-of-law. Duterte gets a lot of international attention and criticism because he openly states what was the lightly concealed truth. If only he'd just lie like everyone else...

Amavida

07-01-16, 08:25

Correct. Most third-world countries are rule-by-law and not rule-of-law. Duterte gets a lot of international attention and criticism because he openly states what was the lightly concealed truth. If only he'd just lie like everyone else...Really Huts?

I'm glad you guys are here to tell me these things.

Gosh, who'the thunk ha?

Under Arroyo terrible atrocities were committed. Under Aquino things settled down a bit. Now we have this idiot telling people to go around shooting anybody you feel the need to.

To summarise:

I object to the expletive laden press conferences & the exhortations to participate in extra judicial killings.

The 'I heart RODY' camp excuses this on the basis of a promised utopian business world about to unfold.

If Davaos foul mouthed ego maniac mayor even achieves a tenth of what he brags about then he'll be attending a state funeral. In his honor. His populism based on not being one of the ruling clan is his greatest weakness.

I have never subscribed to the belief that this grub has done anything particularly amazing in Davao but it wasn't worth pursuing.

AV.

GoodEnough

07-01-16, 12:21

Really Huts?

I'm glad you guys are here to tell me these things.

Gosh, who'the thunk ha?

Under Arroyo terrible atrocities were committed. Under Aquino things settled down a bit. Now we have this idiot telling people to go around shooting anybody you feel the need to.

To summarise:

I object to the expletive laden press conferences & the exhortations to participate in extra judicial killings.

The 'I heart RODY' camp excuses this on the basis of a promised utopian business world about to unfold.

If Davaos foul mouthed ego maniac mayor even achieves a tenth of what he brags about then he'll be attending a state funeral. In his honor. His populism based on not being one of the ruling clan is his greatest weakness.

I have never subscribed to the belief that this grub has done anything particularly amazing in Davao but it wasn't worth pursuing.

AV.Perhaps my perspective is a bit different, having lived in Davao for the past 13 years or so, and having witnessed the positive changes that have transpired during this time. Within the context of this country, the city is booming, having demonstrated the highest economic growth rate in the country for the last three to four years, with the investment largely a mix of national and international businesses. Davao is perhaps the only large city in the country in which residents have no fear of getting robbed at knifepoint in a Jeepney, where no one worries much about pickpockets, where women's shelters are available at public expense, where free care for children with cancer is available, and where solid waste disposal is prompt, efficient and free. All of the aforementioned are the result of programs established by Duterte. Oh and by the way, residents of Davao don't worry about being asked for bribes by the gendarmes or city officials.

I think AV, your generalizations aren't based on much besides political rhetoric which is belied by the facts on the ground in Davao. Oh and by the way, things didn't "settle down" during the previous administration. Violence continued at the same levels in Mindanao, the much vaunted PPP ventures never got off the ground, infrastructure development became an oxymoron, and the killing of journalists continued unabated. I've been told by some people in government that the level of corruption actually soared.

I've no idea what Duterte will be able to accomplish during his tenure, and neither do you or anyone else. However he is the only national figure since I've started living here to have established what appears to be a high level of trust with the Mulsim and Lumad populations, and I suspect that the level of violence that has plagued Mindanao for years will decline sharply due to this, while the level of economic development will rise. He also appears to have engendered a surge of hope among the poorest, but also the most educated parts of society, and in my years here I've never before seen Filipinos so optimistic. Duterte's candidacy made political activists of tens of thousands who had never before participated in the political process.

AV's diatribe notwithstanding, I think the odds are reasonably good that his election and administration will mark a huge leap forward for the country. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I think some very interesting times lie ahead.

GE.

Wicked Roger

07-01-16, 17:06

Really Huts?

Under Arroyo terrible atrocities were committed. Under Aquino things settled down a bit. Now we have this idiot telling people to go around shooting anybody you feel the need to.

People have been killing other randomly for many years – just look at some of the comments in the archives of the AC threads and blogs, and violence around elections is common. Pnoy and his KKK mates are likely to be worse than Arroyo in some areas as GE says but until the FOI is passed we will never know. But I know friends of friends who were shot at during the last election
And according to many I speak with the killing of drug lords etc is acceptable, some want it extended to the corrupt politicians as “they are the bad guys so who cares”..You seem a tad sensitive AV and we have no idea why but if D30 really upsets the sensitivities best get out of the kitchen for 6 years as this won't change and may get worse before it gets better?

But what would you want for your country after decades of corruption at all levels including the judiciary, police, armed forces, government, barangays etc plus huge shabu issues making many people's lives a misery. There are 50+ murdered journos who 6 years later await justice (Arroyo presidency). The SAF 44 – will anytime 'higher up' be held truly accountable, what about the $81 million stolen from Bangladesh and coursed via the Philippines. Those and many more make many ordinary people (some who I know and socialise with) very angry – so D30 is popular.

We cannot vote so I always think best to lay low and enjoy the things we like and not worry about stuff we can't control (I think RK said something like that) and is a good philosophy. If you can't then leave – to me an easy solution.

And, don't go and live in Indonesia as their President seems equally tough on the druggies also and this may upset you.

Amavida

07-09-16, 03:02

You seem a tad sensitive AV and we have no idea why but if D30 really upsets the sensitivities best get out of the kitchen for 6 years as this won't change and may get worse before it gets better?

But what would you want for your country after decades of corruption at all levels including the judiciary, police, armed forces, government, barangays etc plus huge shabu issues making many people's lives a misery. There are 50+ murdered journos who 6 years later await justice (Arroyo presidency). The SAF 44 will anytime 'higher up' be held truly accountable, what about the $81 million stolen from Bangladesh and coursed via the Philippines. Those and many more make many ordinary people (some who I know and socialise with) very angry so D30 is popular.

We cannot vote so I always think best to lay low and enjoy the things we like and not worry about stuff we can't control (I think RK said something like that) and is a good philosophy. If you can't then leave to me an easy solution.

And, don't go and live in Indonesia as their President seems equally tough on the druggies also and this may upset you.Sensitive? Maybe.

Alarmed & disappointed? Yes.

Had hoped for better this time but alas, looks like a slide into Marcos mkII.

While PI goes backwards countries in the region (including Indonesia) are surging forward.

I don't need to be lectured that the place is third world, thank you.

Any inference that I am associated with the drug trade is pretty [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) weak.

Left my comments here as a warning to any considering moving here. Don't.

And now back to the hobby.

AV.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/07/09/1601032/flag-hits-nuclear-explosion-violence

Wicked Roger

07-09-16, 06:18

Sensitive? Maybe.

Alarmed & disappointed? Yes.

Had hoped for better this time but alas, looks like a slide into Marcos mkII.

While PI goes backwards countries in the region (including Indonesia) are surging forward.

I don't need to be lectured that the place is third world, thank you.

Any inference that I am associated with the drug trade is pretty weak.

Left my comments here as a warning to any considering moving here. Don't.

And now back to the hobby.

AV.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/07/09/1601032/flag-hits-nuclear-explosion-violenceSaw that today but as I said, those I chat with here actually approve so what do we know? I did not make any personal reference to you ad drugs it was a comment related to the killings where Indonesia seems to be adopting a similar trend so my comment was based on your sensitive nature not drugs.

Am not alarmed as I am not a criminal nor do I get involved in any such activity and people who are same should not be worried. Am I surprised? No as he promised he would change, friends say this is needed as drugs etc are now a pandemic problem in the county and so many families are impacted by it one way or the other. I listen / speak to those who vote and don't try to equate my western values to a society that pretends to be western but in many cases is tribal IMHO. And as RK why fuss over something you can have no influence on?

Why tell people not to come here when you live here and been here 10 years or have you made that decision already and bailed?

Questor55

07-09-16, 20:54

Saw that today but as I said, those I chat with here actually approve so what do we know? I did not make any personal reference to you ad drugs it was a comment related to the killings where Indonesia seems to be adopting a similar trend so my comment was based on your sensitive nature not drugs.

Am not alarmed as I am not a criminal nor do I get involved in any such activity and people who are same should not be worried. Am I surprised? No as he promised he would change, friends say this is needed as drugs etc are now a pandemic problem in the county and so many families are impacted by it one way or the other. I listen / speak to those who vote and don't try to equate my western values to a society that pretends to be western but in many cases is tribal IMHO. And as RK why fuss over something you can have no influence on?

Why tell people not to come here when you live here and been here 10 years or have you made that decision already and bailed?Drugs are symptomatic of the real problem which is corruption, prevalent in all it's guises, from Barangay to the highest levels of government. Drugs are but one way to get pay offs and there are countless others. All levels of society in virtually every regard can be bought and paid for. Of course this does have its benefits, as we who reap personal gratification can attest.

Soapy Smith

07-23-16, 17:49

Clark would be an easy out but probably isn't a viable alternative given its dilapidated terminals, the likelihood that its ground equipment hasn't been upgraded since the US left and the lack of a reliable transport link to Manila. The only workable alternative is building a new airport and allowing the private sector to design, build and operate it. GE.By the San Miguel / SM plan, do you mean the design that puts an airport in Cavite? A Filipino friend described such a plan that puts the airport on Sangley Arm. For the life of me I can't imagine where the space would come from there for more than one runway. The existing landing strip on Sangley Point is a short, WWII era relic that was once a US Naval Air Station. It could only be extended by dropping fill into Manila Bay. A second runway and space for terminals, parking, egress and regress would require demolishing a lot of Cavite City. But I can see where this makes sense for SM, owners of Mall of Asia, and the wealthy conglomerate of investors who own the World Resorts area.

Clark is far from Manila, but it worked for Seoul to move its main international airport out to Incheon and for Tokyo's international airport at the present Narita location. How is rebuilding Clark's infrastructure any different than starting from scratch for the Cavite location? Ground transportation to Manila is an issue, although there is real progress on the new railroad line from Tutuban (near Tondo) to Malolos in Bulacan Province. The section I saw near Malabon is overhead, and concrete piers and roadbed appeared to be all in place, although construction started only last November. The Japanese put up the money, and they are building it, so there's some basis to believe it will be completed. Once completed to Malolos, that's about halfway to Angeles. Plans are to continue it along the old PNR right-of-way to San Fernando and Clark. We will see?

There is a worn-out argument about how land-owning elites in the provinces control political activities in the Philippines. An alternative argument is that it is now the economic elites of Manila (and maybe a few in Cebu) that call the shots. Not nearly so much has been studied or written about the latter. Most of the former have Spanish names, many of the latter have Chinese names. San Miguel and SM both have Chinoy owner / leaders.

Philippine government has a long track record of failed public works projects, but is privatization necessarily the solution? LRT 1 was supposed to have been extended to connect to the MRT near SM North and Trinoma with a completion date in 2011 or 2012. For more than four years the overhead roadbed has been completed and track is in place, but trains go no further than the Roosevelt Station. Various sources indicate that the problem is a tussle between two private corporations, SM and Ayala. SM offered to build the new connecting station alongside SM North, but Ayala allegedly paid somebody off to try to get the station to remain beside their mall, Trinoma. This impasse has contributed to stalling other light rail lines from being built, including one from this proposed station back in to Recto, and another out along Commonwealth to Fairview and Bulacan Province. So here the source of impasse is in the private sector, not government. In a nation characterized as a weak state and strong society (or strong families), perhaps most of the corruption, logjams, and ineptitude in government are actually just a reflection of power struggles among strong private parties. Why should we assume that the private sector can solve these problems?

Red Kilt

07-24-16, 03:43

By the San Miguel / SM plan, do you mean the design that puts an airport in Cavite? . . . <SNIP> But I can see where this makes sense for SM, owners of Mall of Asia, and the wealthy conglomerate of investors who own the World Resorts area.
As I understand it, the SM in all of the alternative airport discussions / planning is San Miguel and not the Shoe Market (SM Malls) conglomerates.

I don't believe SM Malls has any desire to get into airport building or operation.

Soapy Smith

07-24-16, 05:47

As I understand it, the SM in all of the alternative airport discussions / planning is San Miguel and not the Shoe Market (SM Malls) conglomerates.

I don't believe SM Malls has any desire to get into airport building or operation.Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense, given that San Miguel was previously involved with Philippine Airlines. More Chinoy networks.

Soapy Smith

07-30-16, 07:28

I don't feel "superior" criticising crappy schools or venal local elites. Maybe you do, but that's on you. To be so certain of the feelings and motives of unknown others requires the ability to read minds. Are you mind reader?

Outsiders bringing unwanted "solutions" or those that miss the target. . . . Local people need to sort their own problems. They best know the problems, and by fixing them the solutions are theirs.

The system is rigged. The real source of inequality, such as land and judicial reform isn't addressed. The culture barely changes. It seems this takes genuine uprising and blood to be spilt. I seem to have touched a raw nerve. If so, that's on you, since I didn't finger anybody individually. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

Reading minds? I don't think that's necessary. How would you describe the recent indignant discussion in the Angeles thread about the entitlements mongers should incur when they buy drinks for bargirls? Don't get me wrong, I took it on as useful advice just in case I am in Angeles sometime in the future, but that doesn't preclude owning the privilege that I/we enjoy. Visiting the Philippines with Western scale spending power allows me to sleep with attractive Filipinas much younger than me who would never in a thousand years do so if they had grown up with the opportunities I grew up with in the states. That's called "privilege"; I can acknowledge it even while experiencing its benefits. It's not judgmental; it's just being honest with myself.

I heartily agree with your point that many Western do-good activities are self-deluded, although I presume that some expats in the Philippines really do some good, including a few who participate in this forum. You may be one of them. And yes, outside interventions sometimes just deflect the anger that could impel the locals to force their leaders to create greater equality. I also agree that locals are probably more likely to sustain solutions that they have created, but it seems a little naive to assume that poor countries can simply pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. And spilling blood, as you characterize it, assumes that the only important dynamics to be overcome are in a country's domestic affairs.

Globalization takes many forms, but power and financial influence flowing from the Global South to the North is not one of them. Yes, many Filipinos exploit their own kind, but the larger dynamics situate the Philippines on the wagging tail rather than the body of the dog. A handful of Filipinos sit in the center of power in the Philippines, while the majority are at the periphery of influence and resources. But as a country the Philippines is at the periphery, not the center of world economics, power, and ideas. That makes a difference. When the IMF or World Bank gets the sniffles, countries like the Philippines become vulnerable to a Zika epidemic. I think these are not everyday discussions among most Westerners who visit or live in the Philippines, and I've been told they're not popular among men who read this forum.

I had no idea about Nike's place in the Philippines, so thanks for this explanation. I was using Nike as a metaphor, not an exemplar. Nike does what Nike and other for-profit firms do. I don't fault Nike in particular: I was pointing out how things are, not how they ought to be.

End of rant; more appropriate thread, I hope; no apologies.

Amavida

08-02-16, 01:49

Am not alarmed as I am not a criminal nor do I get involved in any such activity and people who are same should not be worriedPoint being ignored is this: anybody can now kill anyone on the mere accusation of drug association. Hundreds of homicides have now been committed since. No investigation, no trial. As we both know, Pinoys are great ones for vendetta & revenge. It is not alarming to know anybody can gun you down with impunity now?

AV.

Amavida

08-02-16, 01:51

How are you punters who visit Dubai handling the news of a ban on VPN use there?

Are you aware?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/if-you-get-caught-using-vpn-uae-you-will-face-fines-545000-1572888

AV.

GoodEnough

08-02-16, 03:25

Point being ignored is this: anybody can now kill anyone on the mere accusation of drug association. Hundreds of homicides have now been committed since. No investigation, no trial. As we both know, Pinoys are great ones for vendetta & revenge. It is not alarming to know anybody can gun you down with impunity now?

AV.At the risk of redundancy, random killings, intra-clan killings, vendetta killings, and a host of others have been a sine qua non here for decades, maybe centuries. True, the street level killings are garnering more media attention--largely from media that opposed Duterte's candidacy--but I question whether the numbers have increased significantly or at all. I suspect not, but I've no data source to support this conclusion, but then neither does anyone else. I've noticed no increased level of tension in the streets, be it in Davao or Manila, nor do I feel myself in greater danger than prior to the election. True, these are all subjective judgments, but I do find it curious that the cumulative "death tally" breathlessly reported by national papers was largely ignored prior to the recent election.

GE.

Amavida

08-02-16, 03:57

At the risk of redundancy, random killings, intra-clan killings, vendetta killings, and a host of others have been a sine qua non here for decades, maybe centuries. True, the street level killings are garnering more media attention--largely from media that opposed Duterte's candidacy--but I question whether the numbers have increased significantly or at all. I suspect not, but I've no data source to support this conclusion, but then neither does anyone else. I've noticed no increased level of tension in the streets, be it in Davao or Manila, nor do I feel myself in greater danger than prior to the election. True, these are all subjective judgments, but I do find it curious that the cumulative "death tally" breathlessly reported by national papers was largely ignored prior to the recent election.

GE.All too true GE. It is (remarkably) pretty much business as usual since RODY first announced the free for all. It is also a routine daily occurrence for police to have a 'shoot out' with an alleged perpetrator who inevitably dies (especially in Manila). I take your point that the homicide count of alleged suspects being reported may be spurious or it may not. As I said weeks ago, we wait and see.

AV.

WestCoast1

08-02-16, 04:02

Point being ignored is this: anybody can now kill anyone on the mere accusation of drug association. Hundreds of homicides have now been committed since. No investigation, no trial. As we both know, Pinoys are great ones for vendetta & revenge. It is not alarming to know anybody can gun you down with impunity now?

AV.Read an article online yesterday about a pinay, mid-20's, shot to death recently. She is from Dagupan. She had been wrongly executed as a drug pusher. She was, literally, in the church choir:

The family of a choirgirl who just celebrated her 22nd birthday has been left distraught after she was executed and then dumped in a backstreet after being accused of being a drugs dealer. The body of Rowena Tiamson of Dagupan, in the northern Philippines, was found with her hands tied, her eyes and mouth covered in tape, and a bullet wound to her head.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/choirgirl-22-killed-bullet-head-during-rodrigo-dutertes-state-sponsored-butchery-1573470?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rss&utm_content=%2Frss%2Fyahoous%2Fnews&yptr=yahoo

Wicked Roger

08-02-16, 13:03

How are you punters who visit Dubai handling the news of a ban on VPN use there?

Are you aware?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/if-you-get-caught-using-vpn-uae-you-will-face-fines-545000-1572888

AV.Several posters say you can't be detected etc, some say be careful but many I speak with say the real reason is to stop the millions of low paid workers using Skype and other VOIP apps that circumvent the highly expensive local carrier alternates. To use Skype (call outside the UAE) I have to use the VPN. All about profit (mainly) and not much about security.

I will sue and see as via hotel ISPs is harder to track the room number. This is a mess and widely criticized (but not in the press) as another way to protect a duopoly that overcharges, under performs compared with the international operators and does not care most of the time (I can say this having spent many years in the region).

Wicked Roger

08-02-16, 13:07

All too true GE. It is (remarkably) pretty much business as usual since RODY first announced the free for all. It is also a routine daily occurrence for police to have a 'shoot out' with an alleged perpetrator who inevitably dies (especially in Manila). I take your point that the homicide count of alleged suspects being reported may be spurious or it may not. As I said weeks ago, we wait and see.

AV.As one editorial who is not opposed to Rody said recently at people forget the killings started in may under PNoy watch so the senators should call him to account also if they intend to have an inquiry at:

Like GE I rea the local press and am amazed at what some say with clear bias against current administration. Never a really balanced view IMHO. Some of the more Binay press are struggling to say nice things about Rody at all LOL.

But I don't feel threatened, the killings would happen regardless of who as president and many I speak with are happy about what is happening and support his style of justice. So what us foreigners say is IMHO worthless.

Amavida

08-03-16, 01:30

Several posters say you can't be detected etc, some say be careful but many I speak with say the real reason is to stop the millions of low paid workers using Skype and other VOIP apps that circumvent the highly expensive local carrier alternates. To use Skype (call outside the UAE) I have to use the VPN. All about profit (mainly) and not much about security.

I will sue and see as via hotel ISPs is harder to track the room number. This is a mess and widely criticized (but not in the press) as another way to protect a duopoly that overcharges, under performs compared with the international operators and does not care most of the time (I can say this having spent many years in the region).From a technical standpoint, yes VPN use can certainly be detected but whether this will be acted on is the question. It does appear to be a poorly thought out attempt at protecting the duopoly & as a bonus it gives the government another spurious charge to hit you with should someone take a dislike to you & get you arrested.

AV.

Wicked Roger

08-03-16, 09:54

From a technical standpoint, yes VPN use can certainly be detected but whether this will be acted on is the question. It does appear to be a poorly thought out attempt at protecting the duopoly & as a bonus it gives the government another spurious charge to hit you with should someone take a dislike to you & get you arrested.

AV.On the UAE board there is some clarification that it is really for criminal activities but as using Skype (IE calling an international number etc) is impossible without a VPN and the telco law is very stringent this is what many think it is for. To further boost the profit of Etisalat (mainly) and stop everyone calling home cheaply.

Amavida

08-10-16, 00:10

FreebieFan

08-10-16, 01:37

As I feared the free for all announced by RODY is gathering momentum. Over 1000 people said to have been murdered now. With the arrest of police generals & widening of the slaughter to targeting hundreds of political figures one has to ask is this not a political campaign reminiscent of Marcos?

I care because I enjoy being here most of the time & don't want to see the place go down the toilet.

Que the RODY defence league.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/03/asia/philippines-war-on-drugs/

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/794598/kill-list-drugs-duterte

http://www.rappler.com/nation/142210-duterte-list-lgu-police-officials-linked-drugs

AV.Articles in Daily Telegraph and Gaurdian (UK national papers) asking why the world stands by whilst another semi dictator allows a new round of blood letting and how the police see this as a golden chance to get rid of those who they don't around. The articles asks who is held accountable for this. It also states that surely Duterte has a lot more problems to deal with than just drugs (given that nearly every country has a drug problem) so why is his focus on this when there are a lot of other more pressing issues.

Dg8787

08-10-16, 04:59

Why not let the people of Philippines take care of their own business. President Dutere was elected with 67% of the votes. The citizens have voted for his changes. Billionaire Branson just spoked out against Dutere war on drugs. What the hell does he know? Talk is cheap. If he has a better plan then Sir Branson put your money where your plan is. Otherwise stfu.

Bleeding hearts and righteous people want to help? Help the law abiding poor people. Help the BG transition to good paying jobs.

Drug dealers and druggies are surrendering in record numbers. Want to help them? Put your money into rehab centers for them.

*like everyone here, not my country, not a Filipino citizen, my opinion is crap!

Amavida

08-11-16, 20:18

Davao has the highest murder rate in the Philippines & the second highest [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) rate in the Philippines.

So much for the RODY is a good man BS.

http://www.philstar.com/nation/2016/04/02/1568394/murder-rate-highest-davao-city-pnp

Amavida

08-11-16, 20:33

After widening his extra judicial killings to hundreds of political figures RODY is castigated by the Supreme Court (at last) and retaliates by threatening martial law.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/08/09/16/duterte-to-sereno-would-you-rather-i-declare-martial-law

Amavida

08-11-16, 20:38

Well researched article with some sobering statistics.

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21704829-new-president-keeps-his-most-brutal-campaign-promise-plan-execution?fsrc=rss%7Casi

Questor55

08-11-16, 21:29

The worst aspect of extra-judicial killings is that there is no control over who is being shot, nor why. Corrupt cops, fearing personal exposure, now have an easy 45 mm. Solution to ease their concerns. Great opportunity for settling personal vendettas, too. Rather than blame Duterte, we need to look at the completely rotten, corrupt and compromised judicial system. When there is no functioning legal system, this is the result.

Wicked Roger

08-12-16, 02:26

Well researched article with some sobering statistics.

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21704829-new-president-keeps-his-most-brutal-campaign-promise-plan-execution?fsrc=rss%7CasiAmavida,

You seem very scared and very worried that you may be targeted given all the news you share with us LOL.

Best get out of town and stop hiding in the toilet as your views come across as someone who is a 'wussy' (or 'pussy' LOL)?

Many I speak with applaud the President and like what he does, not not mean they want it to continue forever but at the moment they see drugs as a huge problem that is a cancer in the country and a pandemic.

RK said once in a post you can't worry too much about what you can't influence. I am of the same view and that best not interfere in the local politics, keep you head down and be quiet.

Local editorials are either very pro or anti Rody some always noting the killings (which happened before and will happen still after he steps down so why the fuss. Someone even said they started when PNoy was in charge). Here are a couple that sum up what the pinoy / pinay I know are sating to me. All are happy (and some have family members blighted by drug use also).

The recent surrender of a well known drug lord from Cebu (few days ago) was very welcome in the town where he tended to hang out. He and his brother who is a vice mayor went to Camp Crane (seems they were scared of being killed etc). So the people want it (and 16 million voted for Rody), you don't want it AV. So what? You don't count and if you don't like leave but don't go to the USA as the gun deaths there are staggering and you may feel the need to hide again. Best find a quiet island somewhere that is called Utopia?

Read the links as this sums up what many think and say to me.

http://www.philstar.com/freeman-opinion/2016/08/10/1611936/editorial-we-cannot-afford-be-distracted

http://www.philstar.com/freeman-opinion/2016/08/10/1611944/more-narco-politicians-will-shock-us-all

Amavida

08-15-16, 03:58

Opposition to the soon to be dictator beginning to gather force.

http://m.inquirer.net/newsinfo/806154

Red Kilt

08-15-16, 04:28

Opposition to the soon to be dictator beginning to gather force.

http://m.inquirer.net/newsinfo/806154I think you are spinning this a bit AV to promote your argument that people are turning against Du30.

This article is ALL about the burial of Marcos in the Heroes' cemetery. It's not about opposition to Du30 across all other areas.

Of course the Catholic church, through its schools, is going to oppose him. After all, he is threatening to sign an EO to approve the RH Bill amongst other things.

Just clarifying for those readers who don't live here.

Wicked Roger

08-15-16, 04:37

I think you are spinning this a bit AV to promote your argument that people are turning against Du30.

This article is ALL about the burial of Marcos in the Heroes' cemetery. It's not about opposition to Du30 across all other areas.

Of course the Catholic church, through its schools, is going to oppose him. After all, he is threatening to sign an EO to approve the RH Bill amongst other things.

Just clarifying for those readers who don't live here.I agree RK.

AV. This is all about Marcos which even those I speak with who voter for Rody are opposed to especially in light of some agreement made with earlier administrations.

Am surprised AV can read the news given he is hiding in the toilet from those who he thinks will kill him? Or maybe you don't live in the country anymore but are crusading from afar LOL.

Speak to those who voted for Rody AV as I do and they seem to love the guy. They may not like this about Marcos but opposition? The Inquirer regularly runs articles about the kill count as do other media outlets that were not supporting him during the election (jut like the UK with the Sun versus the Mirror, the Times versus the Guardian) so best factor that also into anything you write.

As for the Catholic church? Never have time for that institute given it does not pay taxes, thinks massive population explosion is a good thing for a poor country and I have never seen a skinny nun as they eat lots before they give to the poor LOL.

Amavida

08-15-16, 05:04

Emale

08-15-16, 06:33

Why not let the people of Philippines take care of their own business. President Dutere was elected with 67% of the votes. The citizens have voted for his changes.Actually Du30 got 39% of the popular vote, so 71% of the electorate voted for someone other than Du30 and his changes. If he was serious about addressing the drug problem he would go after the suppliers and the cartels and put the users in rehab. Instead it is the poor and disenfranchised who end up dead on the street with their heads taped and a small packet of shabu in their pocket.

Questor55

08-15-16, 20:44

Dg8787

08-16-16, 04:03

Actually Du30 got 39% of the popular vote, so 71% of the electorate voted for someone other than Du30 and his changes. If he was serious about addressing the drug problem he would go after the suppliers and the cartels and put the users in rehab. Instead it is the poor and disenfranchised who end up dead on the street with their heads taped and a small packet of shabu in their pocket.It doesn't matter whether DU30 got 1% or 100%. He is President Dutere of the Republic of Philippines. What he does short of a Filipino people's uprising is none of my or our business. Even then it is not our business.

You can do a head count on the dead but to be fair lets do a head count on the ones that are alive and possibly living better on his new policies!

Dg8787

08-16-16, 04:06

Member #4566

08-16-16, 04:57

What he does short of a Filipino people's uprising is none of my or our business. Even then it is not our business!I am assuming that your reasons for stating this are because you are not a Philippine national and you do not vote in the Philippine election. But this does not mean that it is none of your business. Let's not blur the difference between [1] being involved in the process and [2] being affected by it. If you are affected in any way then it is your business. And you are influencing the situation in the Philippines by your mere presence. The raids which afflicted AC have largely stopped because important elements in the PI want to keep you coming and spending money. Yes, you are wanted here.

Dg8787

08-16-16, 09:07

I am affected by many countries on a daily basis, it does not mean I have any business to their politics or government.

Member #4566

08-16-16, 14:01

I am affected by many countries on a daily basis, it does not mean I have any business to their politics or government.Consider the situation where you get arrested by the Philippine police which is part of the Philippine government, can you now claim that it is none of your business?

Dg8787

08-16-16, 15:32

Consider the situation where you get arrested by the Philippine police which is part of the Philippine government, can you now claim that it is none of your business?At that point I would be a true idiot to be thinking about their politics as oppose to being a plain idiot prior to that.

Amavida

09-09-16, 23:13

Duterte's drug war is to be noted for the almost complete absence of any big fish. Aside from the mayor of Albuera, a small town in Leyte, most of the rest are minnows. Given the extent of drugs and corruption at every level, this raises the question, "Why only anchovies?When I first broached the subject of free for all extra judicial killings the numbers of dead was in the dozens & quickly accelerating into the hundreds. As off now estimated by PNP are over 3,000 souls taken and still accelerating. Duterte himself publicly mentioned a ball park estimate of 3 - 4 million to be killed to satisfy his ambitions.

This is not about people abusing a substance.

This is a boiler plate example of Neoliberal doctrine.

Create chaos & then exploit the opportunity to step in & exert major societal change.

Out of the blue we get bombings. How very convenient.

At the time of writing Duterte has now declared a 'State of Lawlessness'. Gee I wonder who is responsible for that lawlessness?

We are now a heartbeat away from him moving to Marshall law & declaring a dictatorship for the country's benefit (sic).

The poor cheer him on as they did when Hitler & countless others in the past offered simplistic answers.

Many well educated Filipinos I know are seeing the strong possibility of Marcos mkII.

This may not be of major concern to casual 'FIFO' punters but it damn well is of major concerns to expats like myself.

Cheers.

Golfinho

09-09-16, 23:25

This is a boiler plate example of Neoliberal doctrine.
We are now a heartbeat away from him moving to Marshall law & declaring a dictatorship for the country's benefit (sic)s.To clarify: did you actually mean to say that Dutuerte intends to implement a regime of neo-liberal policies in the Philippines?

Anyway, the man is a 70+ year-old prosecutor-turned-mayor elected President. Granted he has a mandate, but before things get dictatorial, he'll have to get past the inevitable push back / impeachment calls. An ex-pat on the cheap might have some concern; if you have money, there's nothing to sweat about.

GoodEnough

09-10-16, 07:39

Wicked Roger

09-10-16, 15:32

Many well educated Filipinos I know are seeing the strong possibility of Marcos mkII.

This may not be of major concern to casual 'FIFO' punters but it damn well is of major concerns to expats like myself.

Cheers.Many I speak with are very happy as he is ridding the country of the "cancer" of drugs. As GE says why are you surprised as he said he would and at least he is doing something about it. Under PNoy nothing was done yet IMHO many knew all about it and for sure benefited from the drugs trade.

So what would you prefer? Living in a country with a huge drug issue where you could be killed just for your wallet or less. Or living in the same place where drugs are being slowly eradicated at some levels and you don't fear anything as you never go near drugs or drug personalities. I know what I prefer.

The Davao bomb according the news has been pinned on a vice mayor in Cotabato. Muslim area. And 3 of his cohorts.

The killings will continue and many are now giving themselves up to stop the threat of being killed. Amazing how it works when someone shows he / she is serious about an issue. I suspect you like the PNoy admin etc where nothing gets done and everyone is corrupt and drugs continue to ruin lives. Now he is talking with the Indonesian President so I suggest no holidays in Bali etc for you Amavida.

My friends all love what the President is doing. Am surprised you have any as you are hiding in the toilet all day. Even expat pinoys / pinays as I was in Europe and Dubai recently and speaking to those on the airlines (crew) in the airport or on the plane (returning DHs) ALL support what he does, the rich don't as I suspect their ability to bribe the police etc to have all crimes disappear or blame on the poor or skim and take bribes etc is being reduced and they are threatened or worse. Am told by friends some of the club owners in upscale Makati are 'worried' as some of the rich kids, given the arrest of a well known DJ and her boyfriend (information for their dealings came from a call center agent who was also arrested) - the rich are worried it seems so maybe you are correct in that area Amavida. These people will save their skin and tell who supplies them and the police apparently have a list of their customers LOL.

And yes? What is "neo liberal". I am liberal in many ways LOL Maybe it is young liberals rather than old liberals (aka dirty old perverts at times) like me? Well not a perv all the time.

Soapy Smith

09-11-16, 19:46

When I first broached the subject of free for all extra judicial killings the numbers of dead was in the dozens & quickly accelerating into the hundreds. As off now estimated by PNP are over 3,000 souls taken and still accelerating. Duterte himself publicly mentioned a ball park estimate of 3 - 4 million to be killed to satisfy his ambitions.

This is not about people abusing a substance.

This is a boiler plate example of Neoliberal doctrine.

Create chaos & then exploit the opportunity to step in & exert major societal change.

Out of the blue we get bombings. How very convenient.

At the time of writing Duterte has now declared a 'State of Lawlessness'. Gee I wonder who is responsible for that lawlessness?

We are now a heartbeat away from him moving to Marshall law & declaring a dictatorship for the country's benefit (sic).

The poor cheer him on as they did when Hitler & countless others in the past offered simplistic answers.

Many well educated Filipinos I know are seeing the strong possibility of Marcos mkII.

This may not be of major concern to casual 'FIFO' punters but it damn well is of major concerns to expats like myself.

Cheers.I want to interpret and respond to AV's comments. I apologize if I put words in his mouth that misrepresent his intention.

Some have asked what is meant by "neoliberal" here. This term is at the opposite end of the political spectrum from what is usually implied by liberal ideology. Neoliberal is, paradoxically, about a neoconservative set of economic principles. Liberal here refers to creating policies that allow very liberal, i.e. , relatively unconstrained, expansion of the market. Its underlying premises were built by economists such as Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman, who believed that economic growth, especially in developing countries, could only be accomplished by eliminating government regulation, opening up free trade, privatizing government services, and shrinking the size of government generally. This philosophy got a major boost when it was adopted by the administrations of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher in the early 1980's. It also became a central organizing principle beginning in the early 80's in international development loan policies for the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.

I presume that when AV refers to this as boilerplate for neoliberal doctrine, he may be channeling the thoughts of Naomi Klein, from her book **The Shock Doctrine. ** Klein pointed out that in a number of recent disasters, internationally and in the United States (e. g. , Indian Ocean Tsunami, Hurricane Katrina), capitalist interests jumped into the chaos and psychological trauma that follow a disaster and positioned themselves opportunistically with solutions that seem to solve housing and development problems, but mostly just eliminated government responsibility for providing services in favor of private interests. These private interests, having invented themselves as "the solution" to longstanding social problems, are then permanently positioned to continue to rake in huge profits.

My own take is that Klein is correct in identifying these opportunistic behaviors, but wrong in asserting that there is well-established neoliberal doctrine for intentionally creating disasters that permit such opportunism. So I would argue that the opportunists appear and argue for their solutions just because they are opportunistic by nature, not because there are broad conspiracies to do so. (Although we might ask why did the United States really attack Iraq, in light of extensive private meetings between "Bush's Brain," Dick Cheney, and oil executives during the period between 9/11 and the American invasion of Iraq.) But it is probably the case that when neoliberal policy "solutions" are rolling around in people's heads, and kept alive by their supporters' public drumbeat and "insider trading" with public officials, these solutions fall on fertile ground in the wake of a disaster.

Some recent Pulse Asia surveys suggest that more than 80% of Filipinos "trust" Duterte, but what exactly does that prove? Does this really mean his policies are correct? Remember, this is a country that elects athletes and entertainers to be political leaders. Miss Universe, Pia Wurzbach, could be a viable presidential candidate for 2022, if only she hadn't been born in Germany. In the election in May Duterte received only 39% of the vote. I agree with AV's reference to Hitler, who was vastly popular among Germans for nearly a decade. A few other leaders who, for extended or brief periods, were hailed as heroes by their citizens: Marcos, Castro, Mao Zedong, Gaddafi, Mugabe, Stalin, Idi Amin, Khomeini, Chiang Kai-shek, the North Korean Kim regime. Those all certainly turned out well. There are many other similar examples.

I have said too much already, but, for reasons that I won't elaborate now, I share AV's concern that Duterte is going to prove to be a disastrous Philippine President. I hope I'm wrong.

Golfinho

09-11-16, 21:30

Imposition of neoliberal policies within USA where transnational corporate interests abetted by politicians capture the government differ from situation where neoliberalism is imposed on weaker states / less developed economies. Dutuerte has said Philippines will not be subjected to colonial status. Implicit in this statement would be an unwillingness to allow his country to become subject to diktats of the neoliberalists.

GoodEnough

09-11-16, 22:53

I have said too much already, but, for reasons that I won't elaborate now, I share AV's concern that Duterte is going to prove to be a disastrous Philippine President. I hope I'm wrong.Thanks very much for the lucid explanation of neo liberal economic policy as t helped me to understand the original comment. Given that, to my knowledge, Duterte has yet to present his overall views on the economy, and hasn't to my knowledge articulated any change from the traditional protected capitalism that has defined the economy here for decades, or perhaps centuries, it's difficult to forecast much except a continuation of the status quo. He's done nothing so far to open the market to true competition, but these are early days and perhaps it's his intention to do so in the future. I for one, was disappointed that, confronted with the facts of some of the worst cell phone and Internet services in Asia, the President threatened the duopoly of Smart and Globe, with possible competition from Telstra if services don't improve, but stopped far short of allowing another player into the market. This doesn't bode well for alleviating, let alone removing the constraints on foreign investment in critical sectors such as IT, power, banking and finance and manufacturing.

For reasons I may never understand, the thrust of the new administration to date appears to be the creation and expansion of a perfervid nationalism designed to ultimately redefine the foreign policy independence of the country, aligning its interests more with those of other ASEAN countries, engaging in dialogue with China, and drawing closer to Japan. Though such developments may alienate the United States, the President may believe that building stronger regional relationships will serve the best interests of his country. This is pure inference on my part based on recent events, but I'm reasonably certain he will resist allowing the country to be used as a geopolitical pawn in the struggle between the US and China for dominance in the region. I've been told, though I can't verify, that Korea and Japan have made recent overtures suggesting a willingness to invest in massive infrastructure projects here; something the us hasn't done in decades, and that China as well, may explore similar potential investments, so these efforts may be bearing fruit. Neither the US nor other Western donors have initiated any major infrastructure projects here for decades, and have concentrated instead on social and governance reform projects that have made little to no impact on the country's recurrent problems.

According to an article I read earlier this morning, foreign investors are fleeing from the stock market in the light of recent remarks at the ASEAN summit, though the flight of foreign capital may be short lived.

Given that this country has, for years, attracted less foreign direct investment than any other major ASEAN country, I had hoped hat the ascension of Duterte would have resulted in the dismantling of the contraints that discourage foreign investment, and would have led to a more open, highly competitive economy. This may still occur, but there's little evidence to date that any moves in this direction are being contemplated.

From my perspective, virtually all prior administrations have been disasters from the standpoint of the average Filipino: the education system has remained a disaster, the crisis in public health becomes more pronounced with each passing year, the incidence of poverty continues to grow, moderate to severe child malnutrition now affects about a third of the country's children, and the public transportation nightmare proliferates like a virus. Set within that context, why would the current president prove any more "disastrous" than his predecessors?

GE.

Soapy Smith

09-12-16, 00:23

Set within that context, why would the current president prove any more "disastrous" than his predecessors?
GE.Because at least none of the previous five presidents set as the centerpoint of their reform agendas, an attack on the underlying principles of "rule of law. " Clearly Estrada and Arroyo, and maybe Ramos, courted activities in secret that undermined the rule of law, or at minimum simply continued existing practices that fundamentally disrespected the rule of law, but Duterte's most public policy, the freeing up of police and vigilantes to kill with impunity, is a bald, blatant attack on the rule of law. He may succeed in making the streets safer temporarily, but what about the rights of everyday Filipinos, especially the ones who have been innocently caught in crossfire or incorrectly identified as drug users or dealers? So when all the killing is done--if it ever is--what basis should poor and marginalized Filipinos have for believing they have a government that will protect their constitutionally-given rights? What basis will they have for believing it is safe to speak truth to power?

Some probably assume that the ends justify the means, but these particular means literally involve throwing one of the most basic principles of democracy out the window. Stated differently, these particular means beget an end that is directly contradictory to democracy.

And, what after all, is Duterte's underlying theory about the social dynamics that ail the Philippines? Drugs? Drugs are a symptom. An ugly and sometimes dangerous symptom, clearly. But there are some lessons from other countries in attacking drugs that he could refer to. There has been a "war on drugs" in numerous countries of North, Central, and South America for several decades. How's that going? In the states we have presumed that if you just apply enough law enforcement to the hotspots, you can overcome the problem. It hasn't worked because drugs are a symptom that arises among people in despair who have given up hope of succeeding in more productive ways. If the situation in the Philippines is any different, it is because the barriers for getting out of poverty are even more pronounced: education systems that serve their constituents ineffectively, labor laws that encourage employers to take employees on six month contracts (and thereby stifle employees' expectations for raises or benefits), health systems that most Filipinos can't afford (forget public hospitals, most Filipinos see them as deadly alternatives), and so on.

His approach to Abu Sayaf is similarly knee-jerk. If the country could just throw a lot of troops and fire-power at them, they would have succeeded when Estrada tried doing it. But it failed then, and will fail again. I have to wonder if Duterte is just basically not smart enough--and too arrogant to listen to people who are--to understand that asymmetric warfare is not defeated by massive amounts of military force. Knee-jerk seems to be his stock in trade. I mean, what world leader is stupid enough to call the American President a "son of a wh..e" in a large international gathering in which the President is in attendance?

The real problems in the Philippines are institutional: laws, election systems, courts, and property rights designed and reinforced by and for elite families. I have read many posts from you in which you make just that point, so that is why I find your defense of Duterte's policies puzzling.

We should not be surprised that the people killed or arrested in the drug purges are not, as some other poster described, the "big dogs" that control or protect the drug systems from the top. I have to assume Duterte is afraid to go after the truly powerful interests in the society that are most entrenched and most interested in seeing to it that things don't change. So he found a scapegoat: drug dealers and users. That's what Hitler did: Germans were embittered by the raw economic circumstances dealt to them in the Treaty of Versailles, so they were very willing to agree when Hitler told them that Jews, Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, mentally ill, and disabled people were to blame. We have a presidential candidate running a similar attack line: the reason white families who did well during earlier times are now falling behind is because of Mexicans, Muslims, NATO partners who don't pay their fair share, developing countries who are stealing our jobs, and so on. Middle East jihadists have their own attack line: never mind that we have had a long line of dictators and royal families who held us back, the real problem is capitalism and Western "progress." What Duterte has in common with all of these is his insistence on identifying a scapegoat instead of confronting the real dynamics that hold the Philippines back.

It is true that, like most countries, the United States has been self-serving in its policies toward the Philippines and Southeast Asia more generally. But what has the Philippines done to help itself? In the 1950's they were this shining light for all of Asia, and now they have been surpassed by most other countries in their sphere. Instead of projecting the Philippines' problems on Barack Obama or the Pope--or drug dealers--Duterte might want to start with a little bit of conscientious national soul searching.

I find Filipinos to be a warm and inviting people. I have some friendships with Filipinos that are among the best I have ever experienced. But at some point this country has got to confront the huge economic and political inequalities that continue to hold back so much of their population. In the meantime, targeting low-level drug dealers is a popular scapegoating technique to reassure the public that the new administration is doing something helpful. Sadly, it is also likely to do irreparable damage to an underlying aspiration for rule-of-law.

Should we be thinking about, when enough of the druggies have been killed off, whether he might turn the guns on prostitutes and their customers next? We are, after all, another plague on Philippine society.

Red Kilt

09-12-16, 01:14

. . <SNIP>
It is true that, like most countries, the United States has been self-serving in its policies toward the Philippines and Southeast Asia more generally. But what has the Philippines done to help itself? In the 1950's they were this shining light for all of Asia, and now they have been surpassed by most other countries in their sphere <SNIP> This is a bit of a "non sequitur" to SS's analytical essay but I simply wanted to point out that you can easily go way back further than 1950 to find examples of how the Philippines and its people have never been independent (or willing to help itself, even if a shining light), and have always expected foreign interests to provide crumbs from the table. Du30 seems to have decided that it's time a new source of benevolence was tapped.

Jose Rizal (in the period around 1887) wrote at length about this scourge in "Noli me Tangere". There has always been an expectation that "someone else" will provide handouts for any infrastructure that might be required, whether it be roads, railways, bridges, computers in schools, the list goes on.

At a more domestic level, local politicians are expected to fund indigent families' burials, essential medications, life-saving operations, the list goes on.

Foreign mongerers are just another item in this chain of external fund-providers.

Lenience

09-12-16, 01:42

And, what after all, is Duterte's underlying theory about the social dynamics that ail the Philippines? Drugs? Drugs are a symptom. An ugly and sometimes dangerous symptom, clearly. But there are some lessons from other countries in attacking drugs that he could refer to. There has been a "war on drugs" in numerous countries of North, Central, and South America for several decades. How's that going? In the states we have presumed that if you just apply enough law enforcement to the hotspots, you can overcome the problem. It hasn't worked because drugs are a symptom that arises among people in despair who have given up hope of succeeding in more productive ways. If the situation in the Philippines is any different, it is because the barriers for getting out of poverty are even more pronounced: education systems that serve their constituents ineffectively, labor laws that encourage employers to take employees on six month contracts (and thereby stifle employees' expectations for raises or benefits), health systems that most Filipinos can't afford (forget public hospitals, most Filipinos see them as deadly alternatives), and so on.

Absolutely agree with what you said here. Drugs, dealing, and using, are an unpleasant and indeed often dangerous blot on society, but they are a symptom and not a cause of the mess that the Phillipines is in. I am afraid as long as the country is under the control of "the families", there will never be any real changes. A few thousand murders of drug users will probably only make matters worse, at least for a few thousand poor families.

Soapy Smith

09-12-16, 01:46

Jose Rizal wrote at length about this scourge in "Noli me Tangere". There has always been an expectation that "someone else" will provide handouts for any infrastructure that might be required, whether it be roads, railways, bridges, computers in schools, the list goes on.I have read some accounts about how the Spanish clerics (probably the only ones on the early ships who were literate), described the hand-to-mouth economy by which villages on the islands lived. They described them as existing only a little above starvation and with no sense that things could be better. As the Spanish built up barrio (or barangay) structures, they taxed the locals even further. Part of the problem was that the barangay captains were so poorly paid by the Spanish (who were there to extract whatever they could, not contribute from mother Spain) that they learned to pay for their own activities and livelihoods through taxation, usually in the form of a portion of each family's harvest.

Over the centuries the Spanish built up institutions such as schools and hospitals that were restricted to native Spanish and mestizos, so average Filipinos saw these institutions as irrelevant to them.

We might speculate that, living as they were at such marginal levels, and having to give over the fruits of their labor so that it was ultimately impossible to "get ahead," that they were stifled from developing a sense of self-sufficiency. So that then when the Americans did begin to deliver some services in the early 20th Century--public education, hospitals and orphanages built by religious institutions, and even employment for Filipinos in government and in the military, that they never really experienced a "Protestant Ethic" of self-sufficiency and came to see these contributions from the colonizers as a routine part of everyday life.

This probably doesn't hold true for more well-to-do Filipino families, but I have been struck that poor Filipinos have little understanding of the idea of delayed gratification. Everything that shows up today is eaten or expended right away. This too may be a reflection of the absence of a sense of self-sufficiency.

What's wrong in my explanation, of course, is that Rizal was writing about this long before Americans were in the picture. Although, the lack of a sense of self-sufficiency might have been part of the situation under the Spanish. I have started reading **Noli Me Tangere** several times and I'm still in chapter two, so don't know his whole explanation.

Golfinho

09-12-16, 03:18

I have been struck that poor Filipinos have little understanding of the idea of delayed gratification. Everything that shows up today is eaten or expended right away. This too may be a reflection of the absence of a sense of self-sufficiency.Never been struck have you by the understanding of living hand-to-mouth? Of situations reflecting an absence of what you take for granted.

GoodEnough

09-12-16, 04:57

Because at least none of the previous five presidents set as the centerpoint of their reform agendas, an attack on the underlying principles of "rule of law. "

And, what after all, is Duterte's underlying theory about the social dynamics that ail the Philippines?

The real problems in the Philippines are institutional: laws, election systems, courts, and property rights designed and reinforced by and for elite families. I have read many posts from you in which you make just that point, so that is why I find your defense of Duterte's policies puzzling.
Perhaps the prior incumbents did not articulate ignoring the rule of law as a centerpiece of their administrative philosophies, but their individual and collective actions surely personified the concept. The Ampatuans, long-time supporters of Arroyo for example, were given free rein to [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and pillage Maguindanao for decades, and despite the slaughter of scores of journalists have still not been found guilty of anything. My point is not to disagree totally with you, but to illustrate that there has never been, at least in our lifetimes, a rule of law here, nor has there ever been a functioning justice system. Surely you're correct in that Duterte has made the absence of a functional legal system explicit, but it's difficult to undermine that which never existed in the first place. Nor do I disagree that the major drug kingpins have to date, been touched by the killings of lower level dealers, though I do suspect that Duterte is working his way up the food chain and that the higher level Filipino drug lords must be nervously looking over their shoulders.

I agree that drug scourges in this and any other culture are symptomatic of a deeper social malaise, and that as the US has amply demonstrated, the war on drugs is unwinnable through any means short of outright legalization, which in the case of hard drugs is likely unthinkable. Drugs and the war on drugs are Duterte's white whale in a sense, in that he's convinced, or has somehow managed to convince others that drugs are the singular root cause of development and social problems here. As you and RK (and Rizal) have pointed out, most of the problems that plague this country have little to do with drugs. RK also points correctly to a cultural psychology that relies on outsiders to provide what's needed. I see few indications that these perceptions will alter dramatically any time soon. It's part of the "you're rich and we are poor so you have to help us" syndrome that's evidenced itself since the time of Rizal.

Please do not misconstrue my argument. I'm not "defending" Duterte and I still believe firmly that the lack of functioning institutions coupled with endemic corruption and rule by oligarchs are the primary reasons for the retardation of economic, political and social development. My point was simply to suggest that "plus ça change plus que la même chose," or the more things change, the more they remain the same. That is, crude language notwithstanding, I don't believe that much has, or is likely to change for the average Filipino. Yes, the country is likely to drift further from the US sphere of influence, and yes, it's likely to draw closer to its regional neighbors, but my best guess is that for the average Filipino life will remain much as it was before.

I also agree that massive, full frontal attracts against a guérilla army are likely to prove futile, especially when conducted by a poorly trained, poorly equipped army. I think that perhaps, should the president call on his allies for military assistance in such an effort--including well trained special forces, equipment, materièl and logistics support--the effort would have a much higher likelihood of success. However, it's doubtful to me that such assistance will be proffered.

Similar to your case, I've got several intelligent, capable colleagues and friends here--even a few from the elite families--who are fully cognizant of the country's endemic problems and who feel powerless to change them. Cielto Habito for one, a Harvard-educated Ph. The. Economist and likely the country's best known Economist has written prolifically about these subjects and his assumptions and conclusions are not dissimilar to those shared in our exchanges.

Succinctly, I don't believe much will change radically during Duterte's term of office, and I'm not really sure if longer-term positive change is even feasible here any longer. My approach, as a long staying expat is to appreciate the many attractive assets the country has to offer and try not to become overly engaged in societal issues that I'm powerless to affect.

GE.

Questor55

09-12-16, 22:25

Wicked Roger

09-13-16, 01:25

Yesterday's offerings by Good Enough, Soapy Smith and Red Kilt are among the finest insights we are ever likely to get, regarding Philippine Society, Politics and Economics. As a regular reader of national newspapers in this country, I am continually disappointed by what passes for competent journalism and learned opinion. Rarely do I read anything beyond a high school level of knowledge and opinion. In future, perhaps I need to come to ISG first, to understand this complex and frustrating neo-basket case of a nation.Would second that Questor.

I read the online editions of many local newspapers as I like to get a feel of where I am etc (I do this wherever I am). What does amaze me apart from for the standard of writing in some papers is that the same story is reported so differently to the degree that the facts in both are different. Much of this is either lazy reporting and the paper's political bias. Some clearly dislike the new President and follow stories that try to place his administration in a bad light or looking stupid.

Others were clearly Binay supporters and during his trials and tribulations the reporting was very different from other outlets.

Nothing surprises me much here nowadays and this is one of them.

FreebieFan

09-13-16, 01:56

GoodEnough

09-13-16, 05:02

Thanks for the kind words. The following link is, perhaps not directly relevant to the foregoing discussion but I thought that the economic data provided by Ciel Habito might be interesting to some readers.

http://opinion.inquirer.net/97294/us-vs-china-matters

GE.

GoodEnough

09-14-16, 11:23

I don't know how many people follow links to external report, but the article I read today, which reflects only the opinion of the writer, summarizes much of what I've been saying about the broken justice syste, here and the fact that extra judicial killings have long been part of the pattern here.

http://www.getrealphilippines.com/blog/2016/09/philippines-extrajudicial-violence-traces-roots-aquino-admin-according-new-york-times/

GE.

GoodEnough

09-14-16, 11:34

And again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/12/world/asia/the-philippines-rodrigo-duterte-vigilante-violence.html

GE.

Questor55

09-14-16, 23:26

And again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/12/world/asia/the-philippines-rodrigo-duterte-vigilante-violence.html

GE.Wouldn't it be great if this article could be shared with all Filipinos? It's a serious on-going problem that the educational system seems incapable of developing inquiring minds. Sadly, it doesn't seem to be part of the national psyche. Need to start at the Top and work its way down. A formidable task!

GoodEnough

09-15-16, 05:30

Amavida

09-15-16, 11:26

I think I understand Duterte's realignment of foreign policy objectives by which I mean a commitment to establishing closer regional interactions, reduce the tension with China arising from the maritime dispute, and to become more independent of the US. That aspect I get, and it's easy to understand a desire to chart a more independent course. What I don't understand is the continued demonization of the United States; a move that, depending on the corresponding anger it provokes in the US State Department and Congress could severely damage this country, particularly to the extent that it also makes NATO members reconsider commitments to the country.

Approximately 49% of all OFW remittances coming into this country stem from the US; a situation that a US President could alter with the stroke of a pen. Aside from Korea--which is also heavily dependent on US military protection--I'm not sure that any other regional powers could provide much in the way of military aid. China, for example, is an unlikely source of military matriels and though Russia might be willing, the weaponry it produces would be incompatible with Western goods.

So while I understand the desire to pursue a more independent course, the reasons for continual provocations of the US I find befuddling.

GE.Thanks for the respectful, reflective discussion rather than personal attacks & name calling.

My take is, thus far Duterte is all bluster & no substance. I recall you saying you're not hearing any alarm or negative comments in your circles but I can report I am indeed hearing rumbles from the political class, growing concern (not panic) amongst ex pats & foreign investors.

Granted The Economist has its own political slant but I feel this article articulates the concern that everything is not fine.

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21707167-new-president-not-just-crass-and-brutal-also-alarmingly-volatile-rodrigo-duterte-may?fsrc=gnews

Golfinho

09-15-16, 11:34

And again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/12/world/asia/the-philippines-rodrigo-duterte-vigilante-violence.html
GE.The New York Times as a source of information for this part of the world? You can't be serious. We find Peter Lee much more prescient. Even the Times Bureau Chief in Beijing has admitted to us that he reads and finds 'interesting' Lee's China Matter column. Anyway, try it.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/09/15/how-do-you-handle-a-problem-like-rodrigo-duterte/

GoodEnough

09-15-16, 11:47

Thanks for the respectful, reflective discussion rather than personal attacks & name calling.

My take is, thus far Duterte is all bluster & no substance. I recall you saying you're not hearing any alarm or negative comments in your circles but I can report I am indeed hearing rumbles from the political class, growing concern (not panic) amongst ex pats & foreign investors.

Granted The Economist has its own political slant but I feel this article articulates the concern that everything is not fine.

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21707167-new-president-not-just-crass-and-brutal-also-alarmingly-volatile-rodrigo-duterte-may?fsrc=gnewsI had read the article and, like you, I'm starting to hear vague rumbles of concern from what I would term the thinking class. They, like I, don't know what Duterte is trying to accomplish.

GE.

Amavida

09-15-16, 12:02

Posted without prejudice.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/witness-links-duterte-mosque-bombing-killings-160915030009960.html

Golfinho

09-15-16, 19:24

Posted without prejudice.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/witness-links-duterte-mosque-bombing-killings-160915030009960.htmlBreathless sensationalism. Why waste your time on this tripe.

Member #4566

09-15-16, 22:10

Wicked Roger

09-16-16, 00:47

Breathless sensationalism. Why waste your time on this tripe.Because Amavida is hiding in the toilet reading 'news' based on the internet.

Read this article on the same subject. And those I know who followed the hearing etc said the guy was clearly being 'coached' at times and one time De Lima apparently corrected the 'hitman' on dates. He also has not given an affidavit and some of the bones the senator referred to was an old story and nothing came of it as the bones could have been from the war in the 1940's.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/09/16/1624297/doj-chief-witness-coached-de-lima

Amavida. If you are not yet out of the country best go given your sensitivities. Don't go to the USA as that country has more violent killings than the Philippines (or Mexico where drug related deaths are estimated to in the hundred of thousands). Try and find a safe place (with a toilet in case the situation turns sour LOL).

Put some perspective on this. The middle class may not like some of this but those that voted clearly don't care who dies if they are drug related. Many I know remain happy.

The NY Times article GE posted was very informative and I shared it with my pinoy friends. I did not see it mentioned in any of the local media so I think it it being circulated on social media now. Who read with interest and were able to see alternate views on their country.

Amavida

09-16-16, 09:04

Amavida

09-16-16, 09:29

GoodEnough

09-16-16, 09:50

Of course it wouldn't be the Phils without the soap LOL!

http://tempo.com.ph/2016/09/16/duterte-sister-cries-foul/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+com%2 FvfMb+%28 Tempo+-+News+in+a+Flash%29.Right. Just part of the continuing daily soap opera of political life here. Amazing that DiLima holds these hearings immediately after the Presodent publicly accused her to protecting drug lords in the big prison here; an accusation which, or so I've been told, is likely correct.

My best guess is that most of this is theater and little to none of it is true. For sure, the hearings will result in nothing but empty, self righteous bombast.

GE.

Wicked Roger

09-16-16, 13:26

AAP has picked up the story with more details.

Question 1) Impeachment 2) Assassination 3) Martial law.

Place your bets which happens first!

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/f4079273e0ae4ec8af6da0f68e28ea84/witness-says-philippine-president-ordered-killings?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APNone? More chance of you never leaving the toilet where you are hiding Amavida LOL.

You must have something to hide if you are this worried about your safety?

This is drama as GE says, reading the news today and speaking with friends most if not all say DeL is playing games and this is irrelevant to what she is supposed to be doing. And clearly she is backed / pushed by some rich elite whose scams could be threatened. As GE said there is likely some truth in the allegations against her and this is why she is trying to distract attention (or so say many of those I see and speak woth).

Perhaps you and I move in different circles Amavida. Or being stuck in the toilet you believe everything Philippines media throws up.

Wicked Roger

09-16-16, 13:50

Amjeck

09-16-16, 15:55

Amanut

09-16-16, 18:37

Granted they were written before the election, but with some interesting forethought.

http://palawan-news.com/author/leopoldo-mp-legazpi/

I smiled to myself when I read this article about needing more money to attract tourism.

https://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/national/drilon-pushes-increased-budget-for-tourism-campaign/ar-AAiPyg8

I see several reasons to limit the time I spend in the Philippines. As I said in a previous post, on my next trip to Asia next month, I am going to land in Vietnam. That way I can take advantage of a fixed date return seat sale from home. I can then grab a cheap CP flight direct to Cebu skipping the Manila airport and trappic, although from what I am reading the traffic in Cebu is getting as bad as Manila. That leaves me free to exit the Philippines at my leisure. My MO is to revisit ladies I have met previously and perhaps add new ones as necessary. All are mature with good jobs and will have no reason to be held by immigration so if there are issues of unrest I can always fly them to me in Vietnam. I do love my Filipinas.

I do keep in touch with friends in the Philippines and most love their new president, however some are becoming a bit more aware that he may not be as much about law and order as they thought during the campaign. I do read a lot of online news, and my prediction is that for the short term things will be fine. In the long term as he surrounds himself with like minded people he will develop a reason to declare Martial Law. With his rants, insults, and retractions he is a hard man to figure out. I am sure world leaders everywhere have their psychological profilers working overtime to figure out if he really has an agenda and if so what that agenda is.

KongKing

09-17-16, 03:54

I am going to land in Vietnam. .......... I can then grab a cheap CP flight direct to Cebu skipping the Manila airport and trappic, although from what I am reading the traffic in Cebu is getting as bad as Manila. That leaves me free to exit the Philippines at my leisure. Amanut, the only Cebu Pacific direct flights from Vietnam (either from Hanao or from Ho Chi Minh) is to Manila, not Cebu City. At check-in you will need to show an exit ticket from the Philippines so unless you regard that ticket as a throw-away you are hardly free to exit the Philippines at your leisure.

KongKing.

Hutsori

09-17-16, 05:53

Amanut, the only Cebu Pacific direct flights from Vietnam (either from Hanao or from Ho Chi Minh) is to Manila, not Cebu City. At check-in you will need to show an exit ticket from the Philippines so unless you regard that ticket as a throw-away you are hardly free to exit the Philippines at your leisure.

KongKing.It seems he and you have different definitions of "at your leisure".

Re the outbound ticket hassle. Buy a cheap one-way ticket to the Philippines. To cover the onward journey buy a refundable ticket elsewhere, like to HK or Korea. Sure it's a more expensive ticket, but you're going to cancel it anyway. Buy the ticket from a credible airline, like Cathay Pacific or Singapore. You need to check each airline's cancellation fee, for example there may be a fee for an economy class ticket but not for business or first class. If you don't want to / can't book a first-class ticket I've found Korean Airlines' $30 cancellation fee to be lowest for economy class.

Amavida

09-21-16, 04:13

Dg8787

09-21-16, 04:34

Not being argumentative but in my opinion President Dutere is doing a great job and have accomplished quite a bit in the short time he has been in office. The President has taken on a lot of long standing issues and problems that no one else has even addressed or acknowledged. All Filipinos that I have talked to like the job he is doing.

FreebieFan

09-21-16, 06:55

Unknowable. Duterte is big on fiery rhetoric. Policy & action not so much. This week he told the EU "Fuck you" in relation to concern over the abandonment of the rule of law & exhorting vigilantism. His dictatorial personality is foreboding.US Ambassador, UN, EU, US President, and probably a few more vitims of his foul mouth, are all thinking " damn this guy can't possibly be the elected head of a nation. ".

Hes uncouth, a braggart and vulgar (most of us might have the same attributes, but hey, were not Heads of State!).

Filipinos are quickly realising the person they had hoped they had voted for, isn't the guy who is now representing them.

There are millions of good and decent hard working Filipinos who are now represented by this gutter mouth. They can't be proud of his sad but failing efforts at diplomacy.

The guy to feel sorry for. His Press Secretary who faces the press, reports on todays verbal abuse target, then has to face to press when Duterte makes his " one day later " retraction.

Think, think again then speak sir. Instead of speak, think, realise you made a mistake, then retract.

I guess he will have a go at the Japanese next. Another country that provides lots of aid seems like a perfect target for his daily tirade.

Sxxxx

09-21-16, 07:56

GoodEnough

09-21-16, 08:58

https://www.rt.com/news/359506-brown-brothers-us-philippines/

Is the PI starting to buddy up with China? It would be great to see this happen and kick the yanks out for good, but I doubt it will happen. I think Amavida below suggests an outing of the president through various means. I agree, and the CIA will probably be the one to do it. I don't think the US is going to leave or give up control without a fight. The truth is that the US needs the PI more than the PI needs the US.If, by "buddying up" you mean that Duterte seems to be seeking dialogue and mutual agreement on the development of the South China Sea, over a lopsided military confrontation, then yes, that's what he appears to be doing. At the same time, he knows as well or better than most that fully 49% of overseas remittances to this country flow from the US and that much of the electronic assembly investment here is from the US, and he's not about to jeopardize the importance of the economic relationship. I think he's seeking a balance that he thinks is equitable.

The days during which the CIA could engineer a government overthrow here are long gone, and any suggestion that a change of government would be attributable to the US is patently absurd as is the contention that the US needs this place more than this place needs the US. I'm hardly a rabid jingoist, but the notion that the US benefits more from bilateral relations than the Philippines is inane.

On a slightly different subject, I had an interesting discussion last week with a youngish but retired former US Marine who had been stationed in Zamboanga with JSOTF / P when it was still operating. His insights into the capabilities of local Army troops were interesting and he basically told me that the higher commanders of the AFP have no interest in ending, much less winning the conflict in Mindanao, because there's just too much money at stake; money that would dissipate with the end of the conflict. He said that AFP field commanders are not allowed to make decisions, but must fax their superiors prior to taking any action. Thus, the field officers have no capacity for making any decisions.

GE.

Amavida

09-21-16, 13:56

If, by "buddying up" you mean that Duterte seems to be seeking dialogue and mutual agreement on the development of the South China Sea, over a lopsided military confrontation, then yes, that's what he appears to be doing. At the same time, he knows as well or better than most that fully 49% of overseas remittances to this country flow from the US and that much of the electronic assembly investment here is from the US, and he's not about to jeopardize the importance of the economic relationship. I think he's seeking a balance that he thinks is equitable.
In my opinion GE, Duterte's foreign policy has been to date, inconsistent and unpredictable excepting use of expletives at highly inappropriate occasions. If you can divine a plan from all this you must know something none of us know.

The days during which the CIA could engineer a government overthrow here are long gone, and any suggestion that a change of government would be attributable to the US is patently absurd as is the contention that the US needs this place more than this place needs the US. I'm hardly a rabid jingoist, but the notion that the US benefits more from bilateral relations than the Philippines is inane.
Agreed, talk of CIA involvement is utterly fanciful. When I mentioned possible outcomes as totalitarianism or assassination I was, of course, referring to the time honoured Filipino tradition of settling arguments.

When I allude to Duterte heading toward being a possible Marcos mkII, I am of course speaking of a general trajectory. Marcos for all his faults was an intelligent operator with a gift of oratory & detailed plans. Duterte is a foul mouthed thug with a vague longing for 'the good old days'. A ray of hope is his efforts at peace talks with rebel groups but the failure of such efforts may give him the trigger he needs to seize power.

One thing is certain, the country is heading down a very bloody road with diminishing prospect of avoiding worse.

FreebieFan

09-22-16, 03:33

To quote the forum: "Filipinos are quickly realizing the person they had hoped they had voted for, isn't the guy who is now representing them".

I always do surveys when in Phils. Helps to amuse myself. Latest survey put to about 30/40 people: "Is Duturte good or bad" ?

Answer 100 per cent of the time, 100 percent said: "Good, he is good".

There is an old saying "Live by the gun, die by the gun". Will this apply to Duturte? Anyway, "we live in exciting times" , regardless.

P.S. : Of interest to the "K Philes" . One guy in Cebu answered: "Duturte good. Crime down. 30/40 Koreans in prison now, for drug manufacture and distribution".I think it certainly depends who you talk to, as to the response that you get. I too have heard the " hes one of us and is interested in our problems" and have equally heard / seen the rolling of the eyes from what I would classify as typical middle class Filipinos, who say we didn't vote for this fellow and hes an embarrassment to our country. Same question, polar opposite answers.

Locking up Koreans is good as it allows all the yea sayers to say " see, we told you it was those evil foreigners ", but I think no one has yet figured out how many chinese moved to philippines several years ago and have been actively involved in setting up drug manufacturing.

A classic way of destablising a country, is by getting the locals hooked on drugs. We Brits perfected the method with the Chinese no less using opiom from India.

They seem to have copied the same play book and will no doubt happily help Duterte rid him of his drug problem, (they one that perhaps they really created) in return for substantial concessions.

Great long game tactic by the Chinese. Now of course, this is just a theory, but who knows.

GoodEnough

09-22-16, 04:12

In my opinion GE, Duterte's foreign policy has been to date, inconsistent and unpredictable excepting use of expletives at highly inappropriate occasions. If you can divine a plan from all this you must know something none of us know.

Agreed, talk of CIA involvement is utterly fanciful. When I mentioned possible outcomes as totalitarianism or assassination I was, of course, referring to the time honoured Filipino tradition of settling arguments.
Not sure I agree completely AV. He's been reasonably consistent in his insistence that the country chart a more independent course for its development. Though I find his recurrent references to historical depredations committed by the US disturbing and unproductive, I think that historical sources would confirm their accuracy. I am also disturbed that the US, and not Spain and / or Japan, which are guilty of far more sweeping and barbarous treatment of Filipinos, are not included in his litanay of "sins" committed against the country. The Japanese, it would seem to me, have a lot to answer for here.

To be clear, I have not "divined" anything. I have however, had a few conversations with some folks who know him well including a member of his cabinet, and what I've gleaned from those conversations has influenced my comments.

I worry less about totalitarianism as the culmination of his presidency than I do about the possibility of assassination. The president enjoys enormous, I'm guessing unprecedented grassroots support here from ordinary Filipinos. His violent death in office might provoke uncontrollable civil unrest. I for one am hoping for his continued good health. I also believe firmly that he's got a better chance than any of his predecessors in resolving the continued rebel campaigns in Mindanao.

I can't speak to the drug problems here as I know so little about them. Though I"ve traveled fairly extensively in Mindanao, and a bit in the Visayas, drugs are not an issue that I've ever confronted directly here, and I'm not sure if the incidence of drug-related crimes is any higher in the big cities here than it is in the US or the big cities in many other countries. Perhaps it is; I simply have no statistics to argue one way or the other.

As one who lives here, and moreover lives in Mindanao, it appears to me that the recent election offered a stark, compelling choice: between the continuation of the status quo (as exemplified by Roxas and Binay) and the hope offered by radical, fundamental change as represented by Duterte. I believe that the choice made by the electorate is clear and that this is why he continues to enjoy overwhelming support.

In closing I want to add that expletives notwithstanding, the President is no ignorant thug. He's a highly intelligent, and (privately) highly articulate politician and a committed nationalist.

These remain very early days, and I do not believe that anyone can yet see the end of the road, or perhaps not even what may lie around the next bend. Radical change is always frightening, can be destabilizing and sometimes eventuates in significant improvement. I continue to hope that this will be one of those times.

GE.

FreebieFan

09-22-16, 07:28

In closing I want to add that expletives notwithstanding, the President is no ignorant thug. He's a highly intelligent, and (privately) highly articulate politician and a committed nationalist.

GE.And therein lies the challenge. No matter how articulate, smart, capable a person may be, they will be judged by what they say and how they say it.

His latest eloquent outburst concerning the European union, has no place being uttered by a person who is the Head of state.

How many impressionable youngsters, who need little encouragement will be repeating his words on the basis, " well the president uses these words so its ok for me to do so. ".

The previous Presidents, who may all have had several shortcomings, at least knew the ways of diplomatic decency.

Telling the European Union " fuck you " is most certainly a first for a (supposedly articulate) Head of State.

Note. European Union donated / gave the Philipines P7 billion in aid from 2007 to 2013.

In 2014 it pledged to donate P 17 billion from 2014 to 2020.

And it gets told " fuck you ".

GoodEnough

09-22-16, 07:43

And therein lies the challenge. No matter how articulate, smart, capable a person may be, they will be judged by what they say and how they say it.

His latest eloquent outburst concerning the European union, has no place being uttered by a person who is the Head of state.

How many impressionable youngsters, who need little encouragement will be repeating his words on the basis, " well the president uses these words so its ok for me to do so. ".

The previous Presidents, who may all have had several shortcomings, at least knew the ways of diplomatic decency.

Telling the European Union " fuck you " is most certainly a first for a (supposedly articulate) Head of State.

Note. European Union donated / gave the Philipines P7 billion in aid from 2007 to 2013.

In 2014 it pledged to donate P 17 billion from 2014 to 2020.

And it gets told " fuck you ".No argument from me there. Add to that the tens of millions of dollars of military aid received from the US, the additional tens of millions borrowed at concessional rates from the World Bank (largely supported by the US and NATO members), and the untold millions remitted by OFWs allowed to work in the US, Canada and EU, and his response becomes even more perplexing. I'm not even going to try to justify it, since once you eliminate the EU, and the US and their allies, his spectrum of reliable partners narrows substantially.

As to to influence he may have on developing young minds, I'm not sure if his lack of diplomatic language and failure to follow protocols are a worse influence than the corrupt, venal self-serving predecessors.

GE.

FreebieFan

09-22-16, 07:56

No argument from me there. Add to that the tens of millions of dollars of military aid received from the US, the additional tens of millions borrowed at concessional rates from the World Bank (largely supported by the US and NATO members), and the untold millions remitted by OFWs allowed to work in the US, Canada and EU, and his response becomes even more perplexing. I'm not even going to try to justify it, since once you eliminate the EU, and the US and their allies, his spectrum of reliable partners narrows substantially.

As to to influence he may have on developing young minds, I'm not sure if his lack of diplomatic language and failure to follow protocols are a worse influence than the corrupt, venal self-serving predecessors.

GE.I'm with you totally, about the venality of his predecessors, none of whom did anything to upset the long established status quo.

Ts certainly going to be interesting and most definitely unpredictable as to what happens next.

Hes certainly different to the ones who have preceded in in almost every way.

GoodEnough

09-22-16, 08:19

I'm with you totally, about the venality of his predecessors, none of whom did anything to upset the long established status quo.

Ts certainly going to be interesting and most definitely unpredictable as to what happens next.

Hes certainly different to the ones who have preceded in in almost every way.Thought you might be interested in following this link, which was posted today on FaceBook by one of Duterte's Cabinet officials: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/dec/31/human-rights-imperialism-james-hoge?CMP=share_btn_fb.

Amanut

09-22-16, 13:14

Thanks Hutsori and KongKing. Good information about flights from Saigon. Damn, I was so trying to avoid Manila. It looks like a return Korean Air ticket it is.

I'm just trying to get some perspective on the police shootings of dealers and users, and extra judicial murders taking place. I get my information from the foreign press and Philippine news feeds which sometimes give the impression there are armed police and vigilantes on every street corner. The numbers seem high, but spread across one hundred million people in many communities throughout RP then maybe not so much.

The city and province I live in has regular shootings and stabbings which of course when reported give reason for people to fear of being collateral damage when they go out. I get it that personal safety sometimes comes down to nothing more being in the wrong place at the wrong time and that this can be a factor anywhere in the world at any given time. My daughter worked as a nurse in Kenya and departed there only a few days before extremists took the Westmount Shopping Center she used to frequent on an almost daily basis. Timing.

So my question comes down to has anyone on the board personally been witness to or heard these shootings, or are they generally just incidents that one reads about in the news the next day? If they are normally just newsworthy events then at this time it seems to me that not much has really changed as far as safety for the average traveler who is not silly enough to get involved in illegal activities in a foreign country.

I know my thoughts on safety for my upcoming trip there are inconsistent, but the new president is consistently inconsistent in the way he speaks and presents himself as well. lol.

WestCoast1

09-22-16, 14:04

Kong: Your inbox is full.

Hutsori

09-23-16, 09:25

Thought you might be interested in following this link, which was posted today on FaceBook by one of Duterte's Cabinet officials: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/dec/31/human-rights-imperialism-james-hoge?CMP=share_btn_fb.Thanks for posting that link. It's a debate that's been going on for while, reminiscent of the long ago conflict between free speech and free eats (the capitalist v communist debate). I think it was Lee Kuan Yew and Mahatir Mohamad who most forcefully voiced the "Asian values" argument versus universal values in the 90's.

I'm of mixed opinion on this. Sure, I'd like everyone to enjoy all the lovely freedoms, but I feel that struggle needs to come from within rather than imposed from beyond to be genuinely embraced. Seems to me incremental improvement, which comes in fits and starts, leads to the most stable economic, political, and social development. It may take many decades, or even a century. Of course, as we know well, when an authoritarian regime is accountable to no one all kinds of horrors may result.

I think of Sri Lanka's struggles with the Tamil Tigers (LTE). Over decades the two forces battled; of course there were thousands upon thousands of human rights violations by both sides. There must have been countless ceasefires organised by the Commonwealth, Norway, and others. During the lull the LTE would rearm, retrain, and once refortified it would launch a spectacular terrorist attack. War back on. Once the LTE could no longer sustain the fight it would appeal for international assistance to mediate a ceasefire, and Colombo would be coerced to participate. Again and again this went, until the government said "Fuck it. " It finally drove the LTE, which was using thousands of human shields at the time, into the sea. Literally. The corpses littered the shore. The international community condemned Colombo and threatened war crimes trials. But we don't hear of Tamil Tiger terrorism anymore, yeah?

Did all these outside-brokered ceasefires prolong the conflict and the suffering? Were more killed and maimed than would have been had the two sides been allowed to fight it out to the end on the first or second go? I don't know. We can suppose one way or another. But, when a side continually uses ceasefires as a military tactic it has to be seen as insincere partner.

GoodEnough

09-23-16, 12:14

I agree Huts, the change--whatever that turns out to be--has to come from within and whatever substantive changes occur here are going to take a long time. I'm hoping that the fight against drugs and the putative involvement of government officials doesn't become the country's white whale, but I've no idea at this point if that will turn out to be true. Like others who live here and are interested in the development of the county, I wish that the government would articulate its plans for the development of other sectors, but perhaps these too will come in time.

As you have pointed out, radical change is painful, occurs in spurts, and in the end--as we've learned at great cost in Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia and Iraq--cannot be superimposed by external forces; a point that the US and other Western powers seem never to learn.

GE.

Member #4566

09-23-16, 22:25

As you have pointed out, radical change is painful, occurs in spurts, and in the end--as we've learned at great cost in Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia and Iraq--cannot be superimposed by external forces; a point that the US and other Western powers seem never to learn.You can find numerous historical examples of how change was imposed by outside entities. Early examples are the conversion of Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, and Iraq to Islam in the 1st millennium and the conversion of newly "discovered indigenous" people to Christianity by the Dominicans and the Jesuits in the 2nd. More recently we have the MacArthur constitution in Japan and generally the post WWII reconstruction of Europe. More on point, during the US's tenure as colonial masters of the PI, The US gave the PI republican government and the rule of law. Although these were sorely tested by Ferdinand Marcos, it was the outside influence of Mike Wallace who forced Marcos to promise on television to have elections and the rest is, as they say, history. Yippee for people power. Don't be surprised to see another populist movement arise which denounces Dirty Du30 and his murderous ways.

The thrust of the new administration to date appears to be the creation and expansion of a perfervid nationalism designed to ultimately redefine the foreign policy independence of the country, aligning its interests more with those of other ASEAN countries, engaging in dialogue with China, and drawing closer to Japan. Though such developments may alienate the United States.Two points here GE.

1. You seem to be assuming that PI foreign policy has only two options: it can stay in the US's ambit of influence or it can be an unfaithful lover and court favor in other circles. Not true. It can do both. In fact a quick google finds recent examples predating DU30 of important PI agreements with Japan and other regional players.

2. Perfervid? I personally think that you can perceive fervid percentages greater than perfervid. I don't mean to perforate your persition. No body loves a jeu de mot better than I but really as an amusing aside, where does fervid end and perfervid begin? Really I like the word. I am an inveterate sesquipedalist.

I think it was Lee Kuan Yew and Mahatir Mohamad who most forcefully voiced the "Asian values" argument versus universal values in the 90's.Yeah but that argument was proffered to rationalize poor records on human rights. We are not going to give our population rights because they traditionally have never had rights. We would never had stepped out a cave and built a house if that thinking prevailed.

Telling the European Union " fuck you " is most certainly a first for a (supposedly articulate) Head of State.I didn't hear that one but it seems to corroborate the fact we are giving this guy too much credit. We are certainly over stretching trying to find a comprehensive plan behind this guy's outrageous behavior.

Amavida

09-23-16, 23:00

So my question comes down to has anyone on the board personally been witness to or heard these shootings, or are they generally just incidents that one reads about in the news the next day? If they are normally just newsworthy events then at this time it seems to me that not much has really changed as far as safety for the average traveler who is not silly enough to get involved in illegal activities in a foreign country.

I know my thoughts on safety for my upcoming trip there are inconsistent, but the new president is consistently inconsistent in the way he speaks and presents himself as well. lol.Personally I know two young people who have lost their lives for Duterte's egomaniaical gratification. One, a young woman studying from a good family whom I know personally. Falsely accused & shot dead by vigilante. No rule of law. No due process. Her family are white hot with rage, as I would be. I know his family well. The other a young bakla relative of my (Mindanao) yaya. He received word that he had been nominated for death, went into hiding but has already been killed. Shot to death, no eveidence, no rule of law, no investigation. Shot to death by vigilante. My yaya says he (like many of us in our youth) had dabbled in Weed, Alcohol, Tobacco & yes Shabu but was carrying on a normal youth & was in no way a dealer or major user of any illicit substance. This young person was known to me.

Superficiially the streets remain the same but the slaughter is climbing well into the thousands & escalating.

PNP publish figures. Link available upon request.

GoodEnough

09-24-16, 00:10

You can find numerous historical examples of how change was imposed by outside entities.

Two points here GE.

1. You seem to be assuming that PI foreign policy has only two options: it can stay in the US's ambit of influence or it can be an unfaithful lover and court favor in other circles. Not true. It can do both. In fact a quick google finds recent examples predating DU30 of important PI agreements with Japan and other regional players.

2. Perfervid? I personally think that you can perceive fervid percentages greater than perfervid. I don't mean to perforate your persition. No body loves a jeu de mot better than I but really as an amusing aside, where does fervid end and perfervid begin? Really I like the word. I am an inveterate sesquipedalist.
I should have been more precise, and perhaps less sequipedalian, by stating that externally imposed change intended to create functional, democratic societies using Western governments as the standard paradigm have not, to my knowledge, worked. In my view, the Constitution imposed by Macarthur and subsequent iterations of that document provided a visible simulacrum of democratic governance, but the substance never materialized. Hence, as I've said before, the Philippines is more or less a Potemkin democracy; a true triumph of form over substance. Yes, one could argue that the post World War frameworks imposed on Japan and Germany worked extremely well, but this had more to do, I believe with the resolve of the population and national governments to sustain democratic change. Perhaps it also had something to do with the fact that both of these countries were well-established states for centuries prior to the war, and not entities created out of whole cloth by colonial masters.

As to foreign policy, Duterte et al probably have multiple options. But he appears to have framed the debate and he who has implied that the two choices are mutually exclusive but of course I could be wrong. I do note that despite the public call for the US military to leave Mindanao, no instructions to do so have been delivered by the Government of the Philippines to the US Government, and I'm betting that no such instructions will be issued.

It's interesting to note that USAID funding to the Philippines was cut massively for this fiscal year. I have no idea whether this was retaliation in response to recent events, or attributable to unrelated factors, but I highly doubt that the funding cuts were coincidental. USAID programs in Mindanao were especially vulnerable to the cuts and the USAID presence in the region has shrunk significantly. As one who has spent his entire professional life managing development programs, I'll be particularly interested to see what happens to bilateral assistance levels from Australia and Japan--two of the country's largest donors--in the immediate and intermediate future.

I notice that the subject of Federalism, which was a highlight of the President's campaign, hasn't been raised much in the past couple of months. Given what appeared to be a firm commitment to moving the country towards a federal structure, I'm wondering why the war on drugs has supplanted, or appears to have supplanted this movement. I've seen nothing in the news media recently addressing Duterte's intent to convoke a Constitutional Convention, to which I thought he had been committed. Maybe the notion of further decentralization of powers would be incompatible with the unilateral decision to declare a war against drugs.

Though I've not seen any official reaction from China relative to recent developments here, there was an interesting piece published recently in the "South China Post" that some of you guys might find interesting. Here's the link: http://m.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2021971/dutertes-war-drugs-philippines-cant-hide-his-policy

As I've stated before, I have no idea what the longer-term objective of all this sound and fury is, and I doubt that there are many who do. Everything I've stated is purely inferential or perhaps pure speculation. Perhaps there is no long-term objective at all.

GE.

Red Kilt

09-24-16, 04:09

<SNIP> As one who has spent his entire professional life managing development programs, I'll be particularly interested to see what happens to bilateral assistance levels from Australia and Japan--two of the country's largest donors--in the immediate and intermediate future. <SNIP> I am surprised that you disregarded the forthcoming multi-million dollar assistance package from Australia for ARMM that is currently being negotiated, and it is likely to be expanded too. Australia is doing this with no regard for the political sideshow that is going on.

I also know that Japan is looking at increasing its aid to the Philippines in the immediate future.

These are facts.

Unfortunately, all of the speculative "debate" that appears in the preceding posts with contributors trying to outdo one another with erudition is based on newspaper reports. As a long-time resident in the Philippines, I have learned to totally disregard the material reported in ANY of the newspapers here, and instead just wait for official announcements from government-based bodies.

I have direct evidence that when cadet reporters (and experienced journalists racing to meet their deadline) don't have the facts or are too lazy to look for them, they make them up, which explains why 3 separate articles (in Phil Star, Inquirer and (shudder) Rappler) all have 3 completely different statements about something Du30 is supposed to have said about Obama. The "data" about so-called extra-judicial killings is remarkably flexible.

GoodEnough

09-24-16, 11:46

I am surprised that you disregarded the forthcoming multi-million dollar assistance package from Australia for ARMM that is currently being negotiated, and it is likely to be expanded too. Australia is doing this with no regard for the political sideshow that is going on.

I also know that Japan is looking at increasing its aid to the Philippines in the immediate future.

These are facts.

Unfortunately, all of the speculative "debate" that appears in the preceding posts with contributors trying to outdo one another with erudition is based on newspaper reports. As a long-time resident in the Philippines, I have learned to totally disregard the material reported in ANY of the newspapers here, and instead just wait for official announcements from government-based bodies.

I have direct evidence that when cadet reporters (and experienced journalists racing to meet their deadline) don't have the facts or are too lazy to look for them, they make them up, which explains why 3 separate articles (in Phil Star, Inquirer and (shudder) Rappler) all have 3 completely different statements about something Du30 is supposed to have said about Obama. The "data" about so-called extra-judicial killings is remarkably flexible.I'm very familiar RK, as I think you know with the imminent Australian aid to the ARMM. As I recall, these funds were committed well before the Duterte Presidency. Perhaps I should have been clearer in my reference, but I was really speaking of new, as yet uncommitted aid. Like you, I've heard some rumors about substantial new Japanese aid but I've not seen anything firm published about it.

I did just see an article about an hour ago announcing that the US has just announced Php200+ million in new funding for programs to strengthen policing in the country, though no targets have been selected and no program design has yet been agreed. The speculation offered was that much of the funding might go to enhancing maritime security since the latter raises no human rights concerns and is thus non-controversial.

While it's likely true that much of the speculation expressed in these forums stems from news reports, it's equally true that some of us living here have had time to develop a small network of Filipino friends who, in some cases, do have factual knowledge that doesn't appear in the news.

GE.

Amavida

09-26-16, 07:06

I'm very familiar RK, as I think you know with the imminent Australian aid to the ARMM. As I recall, these funds were committed well before the Duterte Presidency. Perhaps I should have been clearer in my reference, but I was really speaking of new, as yet uncommitted aid. Like you, I've heard some rumors about substantial new Japanese aid but I've not seen anything firm published about it.

I did just see an article about an hour ago announcing that the US has just announced Php200+ million in new funding for programs to strengthen policing in the country, though no targets have been selected and no program design has yet been agreed. The speculation offered was that much of the funding might go to enhancing maritime security since the latter raises no human rights concerns and is thus non-controversial.

While it's likely true that much of the speculation expressed in these forums stems from news reports, it's equally true that some of us living here have had time to develop a small network of Filipino friends who, in some cases, do have factual knowledge that doesn't appear in the news.

GE.Trying to look at this objectively I give full credit to a dinosaur who survived the communist uprisings of the 80's with ruthless repression of all who stood in his way.
Duterte has long traded on the pent up frustrations of the poor with the kleptocracy but is he really an outsider? I would argue not.
It is understandable the poor buy into his personality cult but I expect much better of those better educated & occupying privileged positions.
The latest news that Duterte has now given himself another 18 months to continue his slaughter to reach his goal of 3 - 4 million dead fills me with sadness.
I'll give him this, he's street smart. He cannot be impeached because at no time has he issued a presidential driective. The PNP are acting on old directives from the previous administration.
His generosity to the Police & millitary is to say the least not unexpected for someone whose modus operandi is brutal ruthless repression of dissent.
You guys who claim to dine at the right hand of the president himself (no less) cannot be ignorant of the capital outflows that are occuring as a result of Duterte's murderous campaign?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-26/philippine-peso-slides-to-2009-low-as-duterte-unnerves-investors

It amuses me that when public sources of information conflist with your beliefs they are derided but when the confirm your beliefs you happily quote them.

Amavida

09-26-16, 07:17

Amavida

09-26-16, 08:24

Wicked Roger

09-26-16, 14:06

Yes RK it's a public news source.

Sorry we ran out of cognac & cuban cigars at my place.

Tells US to get out of the country & vulgarly insults their president, so which is it?

http://m.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/2022409/philippines-host-us-military-drills-after-duterte-softens?utm_content=buffere54f0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=bufferIf you don't like it that much why are you still there, how about you get out from the toilet and go to the USA where gun crime and random senseless acts of violence occur more often than the Philippines IMHO (no stats to prove but there are some really crazy people with guns there).

The reporting of the president said or did not say depends on what you read (as RK said in another FR) but in the end the people who voted for him seems happy. Example, was in Dubai the other week, massage at airport in transit, the pinay massage lady was full of praise and said once the drugs are sorted she may go home, airline crew all support him. You don't and you use word "slaughter" of who? Innocent bystanders of druggies who IMHO are the some of the scum of the earth (I too have friends with family involved in drugs in the country and their families are scared but also happy. Odd mix).

Why not go and live in Mexico as then you may be able to ask relatives of the 150,000 who are said to be have been killed. Many innocent. In the drug wars what they think. Now that is slaughter IMHO, a few thousand who ruin society is for many justifiable. Maybe I walk in lower circles than the rarefied atmosphere than you Amavida LOL.

GoodEnough

09-26-16, 14:58

Trying to look at this objectively I give full credit to a dinosaur who survived the communist uprisings of the 80's with ruthless repression of all who stood in his way.
Duterte has long traded on the pent up frustrations of the poor with the kleptocracy but is he really an outsider? I would argue not.
It is understandable the poor buy into his personality cult but I expect much better of those better educated & occupying privileged positions.
The latest news that Duterte has now given himself another 18 months to continue his slaughter to reach his goal of 3 - 4 million dead fills me with sadness.
I'll give him this, he's street smart. He cannot be impeached because at no time has he issued a presidential driective. The PNP are acting on old directives from the previous administration.
His generosity to the Police & millitary is to say the least not unexpected for someone whose modus operandi is brutal ruthless repression of dissent.
You guys who claim to dine at the right hand of the president himself (no less) cannot be ignorant of the capital outflows that are occuring as a result of Duterte's murderous campaign?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-26/philippine-peso-slides-to-2009-low-as-duterte-unnerves-investors

It amuses me that when public sources of information conflist with your beliefs they are derided but when the confirm your beliefs you happily quote them.I believe in empirical data and I don't believe I've ever argued to the contrary. Foreign investors are pulling money out of the market every day and the peso is, as one would expect falling. There's no argumennt that this isn't happening. And I believe that Duterte, when questioned about the withdrawal of foreign stock market investments basically claimed not to care as such investments neither create jobs nor alleviate the plight of the average Filipino. My desire, throughout the confusion that's ensued from all the publicly expressed disdain for the US, the EU and the UN is to try to make sense of it all, and I admit that I cannot.

Yesterday I saw some news about a possible trip to China, with some reasonably high level Chinese official saying that China would welcome such a visit. Today, it was announced that Duterte will shortly visit Vietnam, so maybe the President intends, as I've speculated before to reduce Philippines dependence on Western institutions and countries and to cast his lot more within the ASEAN and Asian Region. I also read an article yesterday that some preliminary talks have been initiated with the Russian Defense authorities regarding the possibility of purchasing military hardware from Russia.

GE.

Hutsori

09-26-16, 15:30

I also read an article yesterday that some preliminary talks have been initiated with the Russian Defense authorities regarding the possibility of purchasing military hardware from Russia.Last part first. Is this significant? It's unprecedented because the Philippines is a recipient of US military assistance and cut-rate prices on retired Coast Guard cutters. But even S. Korea has looked beyond the US to Russia to meet certain needs as well as a negotiating tactic to get more favourable terms and technology transfer - http://www.sldinfo.com/russia%E2%80%99s-rokaf-connection/.

Yesterday I saw some news about a possible trip to China, with some reasonably high level Chinese official saying that China would welcome such a visit. Today, it was announced that Duterte will shortly visit Vietnam, so maybe the President intends, as I've speculated before to reduce Philippines dependence on Western institutions and countries and to cast his lot more within the ASEAN and Asian Region.
GE.Duterte is consistent in his inconsistency. During the campaign he pledged to hop on a jet ski, shoot off to the Chinese occupied atolls, islets, sandbars, and beat them up. In a few weeks time he'll be upset with Malaysia about Sabah. To someone who expects stability and sober, measured words from political leaders he comes off as capricious. But even the capricious can be understood by evaluating what sparks their flips and flops. Duterte is quick to take offence, and it even seems he goes looking for slights. Does anyone else here know a lot of 18-24 year-old girls like him?

Random99

09-27-16, 00:00

Selfishly, I hope Duterte keeps up his antics. A relatively small outflow of $300 M USD from the stock market in the past month has pushed the PHP to over 48 (a 7 year low vs the USD).

IMO, I think this drug raid is just a wag-the-dog scenario. Drugs aren't causing the poverty. Highest electric rates in Asia (higher than Japan), poor protections for foreign investors, letting the oligarchy families steal the wealth of the country etc are bigger fish to fry than drugs. It's all a smoke screen to not focus on creating a strong economic base for the country that actually lifts wages and creates jobs. If I was dictator, I'd would "request" 30% of the businesses that the families own to "donate" for the good of the country and start building the necessary infrastructure to attract real foreign investment and manufacturing jobs.

Korea was [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) poor after the war until the late 70's / early 80's, but they laid the groundwork to become prosperous.

GoodEnough

09-27-16, 00:04

I've just finished reading an article in today's "New York Times" indicated that on the eve of the presidential debates in the US, the two candidates are in a dead heat, raising the terrifying prospect that a true narcissistic sociopath with bad hair could actually become the next president of the US. The irony of criticizing the actions of Duterte given that the US may well elect a complete buffoon to the Presidency is not lost on me, and I realized that I'd readily swap a Duterte for a Trump any day of the week. I think I'll hold off on any criticisms of the administration here for a while as a Trump election would presage a major world catastrophe as compared to the tempest in a teapot here.

GE.

Random99

09-27-16, 00:26

Amavida

09-27-16, 01:11

Member #4698

09-27-16, 01:34

GE, normally you are a man of calm reason. I must say your last post really surprised me. First, the New York Times is not exactly the place to go for objective reporting. They are in the tank for Hillary so nearly everything they print these days is tinged with their bias. They continually report that Trump is crazy and will start a nuclear war. But take note, the New York Times said just about the same thing about Reagan before the 1980 election except that with Reagan they used the word "stupid" in place of "crazy". And the Reagan presidency didn't turn out too badly did it?

Now you have been away from the USA a long time. I don't think you realize how bad things are here after 7. 5 years of Obama. We have Black on Black murders at record levels, police assassinations, terrorist attacks at an increasing frequency, stagnant economic growth, low real wages, high real unemployment when you count the millions who have given up looking for a job and are not included in the government stat, ie we have endured the worst economic recovery since 1938 and our social fabric is being torn apart. Furthermore, under Obama the middle East in flames with mass murders and mass migrations, Russian advances into the Democratic, independent Ukraine, the Chinese are making provocative military claims in the middle of South China Sea, Iran is developing a nuclear weapon and the means to use it; I could go on and on. In short, the Obama Presidency has been a disaster and Hillary has had a significant hand in it and is running on it.

So this brings us to the 2016 US Election. The truth is nobody knows what a Trump Presidency would be like, but we should have a pretty good idea of what a Hillary Presidency would be like; 4 more years of Obama without his talent and personality, 4 more years of Clinton's pathological lies and deceptions, 4 more years of more terrorism at home, in Europe, the Middle East, wide open borders from Texas to California with millions streaming in, at least 2 left wing Supreme court appointments that will handover unimagined dictatorial power to the Executive Branch and last, but not least, 4 years of Hillary, a congenital liar, corrupt politician, thief, and criminal who should have been indicted and sent to prison by the judicial system for not only her email national security violations, but also for the Clinton Foundation bribery pay for play scam that dwarfs any previous political corruption by hundreds of millions of dollars, not to even mention that Hillary was a totally incompetent as Secretary of State, an unaccomplished Senator who voted for the initial Irag invasion, and a would be a corrupt dictatorial and incompetent President.

So that is the sorry choice we Americans have to make in 2016. An ego crazed potentially incompetent billionaire businessman / TV personality or a corrupt, venal, failed political hack who wants to rule America with despotic power never before imagined. I will take Trump and hope for the best because I know if Hillary is elected you can kiss America as I know it and love it goodbye. So in about 20 minutes I am going to pour myself a couple shots of Cazul Anejo Teguila, settle into my couch in the den, and watch the debate. The stakes could not be higher.

"Who is John Galt?" - "Atlas Shrugged".

GoodEnough

09-27-16, 01:42

GE, normally you are a man of calm reason. I must say your last post really surprised me. First, the New York Times is not exactly the place to go for objective reporting. They are in the tank for Hillary so nearly everything they print these days is tinged with their bias. They continually report that Trump is crazy and will start a nuclear war. But take note, the New York Times said just about the same thing about Reagan before the 1980 election except that with Reagan they used the word "stupid" in place of "crazy". And the Reagan presidency didn't turn out too badly did it?

Now you have been away from the USA a long time. I don't think you realize how bad things are here after 7. 5 years of Obama. We have Black on Black murders at record levels, police assassinations, terrorist attacks at an increasing frequency, stagnant economic growth, low real wages, high real unemployment when you count the millions who have given up looking for a job and are not included in the government stat, ie we have endured the worst economic recovery since 1938, the middle East in flames with mass murders and mass migrations, Russian advances into the Ukraine; a democratic nation, Chinese provocations in the South China Sea; I could go on and on. In short, Obama has been a disaster and Hillary has had a hand in it.

So this brings us to the 2016 US Election. The truth is we don't know what a Trump Presidency would be like, but we have a pretty good idea of what a Hillary Presidency would be like; 4 more years of Obama without his talent and personality, 4 more years of Clinton pathological lies and deceptions, 4 more years of more terrorism at home, in Europe, the Middle East, wide open borders from Texas to California, at least 2 left wing Supreme court appointments that will handover unimagined dictatorial power to the Executive Branch and last, but not least 4 years of Hillary, a congenital liar, corrupt politician, thief, and criminal who should have been indicted and sent to prison by the judicial system for not only her email national security violations, but also for the Clinton Foundation bribery and pay for play that dwarfs any previous political corruption by hundreds of millions of dollars, not to even mention that Hillary was a totally incompetent as Secretary of State and would be a corrupt dictatorial and incompetent President.

So that is the sorry choice we Americans have to make in 2016. A ego crazed potentially incompetent billionaire businessman / TV personality or a corrupt, venal, failed political hack who wants to rule America with despotic power never imagined before. I will take Trump and hope for the best because I know if Hillary is elected you can kiss America as I know it and love it, goodbye. So in about 20 minutes I am going to pour myself a couple shots of Cazul Anejo Teguila and watch the debate. The stakes could not be higher.

"Who is John Galt?" - "Atlas Shrugged".We disagree at so many levels that it would be pointless to respond at length. For me, Obama is the finest example of America, and likely the finest President of my lifetime. For me, Hillary is a highlighter competent, smart, well-informed and competent if flawed politician, while Trump is a legitimate psychotic. If you want to impose some sort of delusional symmetry between the two, that's fine and that's your right, but the thought of an educated, literate person willingly casting a vote for that buffon astounds me. However, this is the Philippines thread and I'm so full of disgust for what I perceive is happening and continues to happen in the US that I don't really want to talk about it anymore. By the way, I doubt that Trump has ever read Ayn Rand, sophomoric as she is, as evidently he's incapable of reading anything longer than a Tweet.

GE.

Member #4698

09-27-16, 01:45

We disagree at so many levels that it would be pointless to respond at length. For me, Obama is the finest example of America, and likely the finest President of my lifetime. You are right. We have nothing to say to one another politically if you think the way you do of Obama. Unbelievable! I think Obama is the worst President in my lifetime. Worse than Nixon, Johnson, or Carter. And Hillary would be worse yet. Time for the real debate.

Dg8787

09-27-16, 02:00

PHP, AUD, CAD and EUR have all loss in the past 2 years to the USD. In some cases the PHP has fare better than others. Not that the USD is far superior, it is just making back lost ground from 8-10 years ago. Therefore 48-50 pesos to US $1.00 is not alarming to me nor does it mean anything.

*Disclaimer. I am a know nothing economist nor a financial wizard or a political expert.

Amavida

09-27-16, 02:41

Selfishly, I hope Duterte keeps up his antics.Indeed! My currency pairing has improved nicely thanks to Mr Death.

Amavida

09-27-16, 02:43

LOL, and the world thought Brexit was bad. Holy sh*t! If it's still 50-50 by election day and Trump somehow wins, the markets will tank at least 5% on Wednesday.Short $ Long ¥ - Profit.

GoodEnough

09-27-16, 02:46

Short $ Long - Profit.This may be a short-term opportunity. With the uncertainty surrounding the US election, and the real possibility of a complete sociopath in the White House, the dollar may weaken substantially in the intermediate term.

GE.

Amavida

09-27-16, 03:05

I believe in empirical data and I don't believe I've ever argued to the contrary.Apologies, off the cuff reply from cell phone colored by RK's disdainful remark. Not aimed at you.

Yesterday I saw some news about a possible trip to China, with some reasonably high level Chinese official saying that China would welcome such a visit. Today, it was announced that Duterte will shortly visit Vietnam, so maybe the President intends, as I've speculated before to reduce Philippines dependence on Western institutions and countries and to cast his lot more within the ASEAN and Asian Region. I also read an article yesterday that some preliminary talks have been initiated with the Russian Defense authorities regarding the possibility of purchasing military hardware from Russia.
GE.Have seen all these reports & articles. Perhaps a realistic course in light of the diminishing power of US? RP has had diplomatic ties with the hermit kingdom for about 15 years (embargo notwithstanding) so anything is possible. Difficult to believe RP can execute a 180 degree turn militarily in the short term. Blind support for Duterte is starting to be replaced with humorous scepticism amongst some folks I know. Comments like: Whats next Po we all learn to speak Russian?

GoodEnough

09-27-16, 03:26

Apologies, off the cuff reply from cell phone colored by RK's disdainful remark. Not aimed at you.

Have seen all these reports & articles. Perhaps a realistic course in light of the diminishing power of US? RP has had diplomatic ties with the hermit kingdom for about 15 years (embargo notwithstanding) so anything is possible. Difficult to believe RP can execute a 180 degree turn militarily in the short term. Blind support for Duterte is starting to be replaced with humorous scepticism amongst some folks I know. Comments like: Whats next Po we all learn to speak Russian?I had another poster on another thread dismiss out of hand an opinion I offered based on a NYT article, since evidently "everyone knows" that it's a biased publication with a liberal slant. Just like here many contend that "everyone knows" some or all of the major poppers are owned or controlled by Duterte rivals and thus cannot present an objective point of view. I guess we've entered an era in which ad hominem attacks are leveled at news sources as well. I have always believed that it was the responsibility of an citizen to garner news from several perspectives and sources and then to form an independent opinion, but since "everyone knows" that all news sources are biased, and that therefore it's better to read only those sources that confirm our biases, what's the point?

This isn't directed at you; I'm merely noting a general trend away from reasoned discourse that respects the opinion of others, to contemptuous dismissal of points of view that don't agree with whatever opinion one happens to hold. This trend is perhaps most evident in the United States, but is obviously catching hold here as well. Rational thought is out, inchoate bias is in and the world of Tweets has replaced lengthier analysis. What a shame.

GE.

FreebieFan

09-27-16, 04:07

You are right. We have nothing to say to one another politically if you think the way you do of Obama. Unbelievable! I think Obama is the worst President in my lifetime. Worse than Nixon, Johnson, or Carter. And Hillary would be worse yet. Time for the real debate.This is quite and quietly amusing.

We often have discussions that veer off the subject matter, which is usually sex, and some yahoo from the back of the bus will shout " hey were here to talk about sex ".

Given that this discussion board, given its heading is about Philippines politics and economics, it appears to have morphed into US Presidential attributes and opinions thereof.

Member #4698

09-27-16, 04:52

This is quite and quietly amusing.

We often have discussions that veer off the subject matter, which is usually sex, and some yahoo from the back of the bus will shout " hey were here to talk about sex ".

Given that this discussion board, given its heading is about Philippines politics and economics, it appears to have morphed into US Presidential attributes and opinions thereof.Yes, the US Presidential race per say has little to do with the topic of this thread except that the popularity of Duterte and the popularity of Trump come from the same well of discontent and uncertainty among its respective citizenry. I call it the "I'm mad as Hell and I'm not going to take this anymore" feeling many ordinary folks in the Philippines and in the USA have concerning current conditions and their local politicians. This same "I'm not going to take it anymore feeling" was evident in the Brexit vote as well. We will see in November if Trump can win on it too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwMVMbmQBug

Wicked Roger

09-27-16, 04:53

Some pretty strong words here "the country is faced with having a mass murderer for president". I'd say it's a little late for this LOL In any event the senate hearings have gone into do nothing mode in finest Philippines tradition. Posted for your amusement.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/09/27/1627867/trillanes-asks-senate-probe-rody-over-killingsEveryone knows Trillanes is the attack dog (well one of them) for the Liberal party / rich elite. Research on the guy will show he tends to shoot from the hip after being paid by others to do so and ends up as an embarrassment. Read the netziens comments about this guy. Mainly derogatory and humorous. Remember he somehow manged to break bank secrecy laws to claim the president had squillions stashed away. Look what happened? They elected Rody the and Trillanes is like a sideshow at a circus.

So always put things in context please Amavida as otherwise some may confuse you with being an attack dog also for the rich elite LOL.

Amavida

09-27-16, 22:07

President Death makes pronouncements regarding realigning with China spurning US & Europe after RP's win at The Hague South China Sea dispute.

Chinese continue operations basically owning that area of sea, booting out Philippine vessels.

(Straights Times) http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/philippines-reports-harassment-of-its-fishermen-by-chinese-ships-near-scarborough.

President Death then cancels planned trip by his special envoy to China (Ramos). RP diplomats basically telling President Death to STFU. (Reuters) http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN11X0NU.

It's a wild ride folks.

Amavida

09-28-16, 00:03

Amavida

09-28-16, 09:32

How many innocents have died unnecessarily?

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/manila/local-news/2016/09/28/lacson-dutertes-apology-espino-prove-narco-list-defective-500394

GoodEnough

09-28-16, 09:57

Good review of a new book on underestimating demagogues in the making.

I see a lot of parallels to President Death.

Yes it's a NY times writer, get over it.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html?referer=And I see more than a few similarities to the orange-haired sociopath. Whatever the case, it's a fairly scary portrait, though the confluence of circumstances that allowed Hitler to become what he became do not appear to be the same.

On another front, I'm winding up a short sojourn to Cebu, a city I've never liked much. The friend whom I'm visiting here warned me, before we went out last night, to remove my gold bracelet, my necklace and my watch and to leave them in the hotel safe; things that would never occur to me in Davao. I figured he knew the city far better than I so I followed his suggestion. This morning I asked a few people working at my hotel, the Radisson Blu, their assessment of my friend's advice. All but one agree with him, and more than one stated something to the effect that "this is not Davao, but with Duterte in power, we're hoping the situation here will improve. " This is hardly a scientific sample, but it does tell me that there may be many who view the streets as unsafe. Contrast this to most Davaoeños I know, who consider the city to be generally a safe place and who walk the streets, bedecked however they please, unafraid. There may well be, in some of the larger cities, a climate of fear or at least wariness that existed well prior to Duterte's election.

Though this is not germane to the topic, I've reaffirmed my puzzlement over the allure of Cebu.

GE.

FreebieFan

09-28-16, 10:02

On another front, I'm winding up a short sojourn to Cebu, a city I've never liked much. The friend whom I'm visiting here warned me, before we went out last night, to remove my gold bracelet, my necklace and my watch and to leave them in the hotel safe; things that would never occur to me in Davao. I figured he knew the city far better than I so I followed his suggestion. This morning I asked a few people working at my hotel, the Radisson Blu, their assessment of my friend's advice. All but one agree with him, and more than one stated something to the effect that "this is not Davao, but with Duterte in power, we're hoping the situation here will improve. " This is hardly a scientific sample, but it does tell me that there may be many who view the streets as unsafe. Contrast this to most Davaoeos I know, who consider the city to be generally a safe place and who walk the streets, bedecked however they please, unafraid. There may well be, in some of the larger cities, a climate of fear or at least wariness that existed well prior to Duterte's election.

GE.And equally ungermane I remember my very first visit to Cebu.

I was a young buck, working in Saudi. So had a pocket full of money and some gold bling on show. I was newly rich. Or thought I was.

I acquired a tour guide / pimp who showed me all the bars and all the places where ladies would want to befriend me and showed me Cebu and its environs.

His advice was very clear. " Sir, remove all your gold, your watch your gold chain. Leave nothing about you that could be snatched. ".

That advice was given 32 years ago. Nothing changes it seems.

Amavida

09-28-16, 12:37

And I see more than a few similarities to the orange-haired sociopath. Whatever the case, it's a fairly scary portrait, though the confluence of circumstances that allowed Hitler to become what he became do not appear to be the same.Indeed the tangerine terror does come to mind.

On another front, I'm winding up a short sojourn to Cebu, a city I've never liked much. The friend whom I'm visiting here warned me, before we went out last night, to remove my gold bracelet, my necklace and my watch and to leave them in the hotel safe; things that would never occur to me in Davao.Oh come _on_ GE! Boiler plate advice in any city in the world, doubly for wandering red light districts. I don't buy this a proof that Cebu is less safe. Pull the other one, it plays a tune LOL! .

GoodEnough

09-29-16, 05:48

Indeed the tangerine terror does come to mind.

Oh come _on_ GE! Boiler plate advice in any city in the world, doubly for wandering red light districts. I don't buy this a proof that Cebu is less safe. Pull the other one, it plays a tune LOL! .You know AV, I've never heard of anyone in Davao getting robbed on a Jeepney, getting accosted by muggers on the street or having jewelry stolen in the market. It may be a blanket statement, but it's one based on experience. You can think (or say) whatever you like of course, but having lived here now for quite a while I feel justified in claiming that this is, on balance, a safe city.

GE.

GoodEnough

09-29-16, 06:51

Here's another link that some readers might find interesting, concerning the strengthening of economic and military ties with Russia and economic tied with China. http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/26/16/duterte-seeks-russias-help-in-crossing-the-rubicon-with-us.

GE.

Amavida

09-29-16, 07:40

Emboldened by the big fubar over the narco intelligence debacle, the lady ripostes.

She's got more kahoona's than the other cowards IMHO.

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/manila/local-news/2016/09/28/de-lima-challenges-duterte-arrest-her-500370

Amavida

09-29-16, 07:45

GoodEnough

09-29-16, 10:42

Every news source is carrying this.

President Deaths potential long term damage to the economy is not going to help.

http://tempo.com.ph/2016/09/28/ph-slips-in-global-competitiveness-ranking/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+com%2 FvfMb+%28 Tempo+-+News+in+a+Flash%29.Interesting, though not surprising and difficult to attribute to a President who has been in office for such a short time. These are year-on-year rankings and derived from data collected during the prior twelve month period, and for most of that time Duterte was not in office. It's difficult to ascribe blame to him over the egregiously poor infrastructure, government inefficiency and corruption for example. The impact of poor transport infrastructure for example--on productivity, cost of moving goods and wasted time--grows almost daily and has been growing for decades. The inability of the government agencies to produce even simple results such as driving licenses and number plates has persisted (and grown worse) for at least three years and the inadequacy of Internet and LTE services are hardly recent phenomena.

GE.

Wicked Roger

09-29-16, 22:32

Every news source is carrying this.

President Deaths potential long term damage to the economy is not going to help.

http://tempo.com.ph/2016/09/28/ph-slips-in-global-competitiveness-ranking/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+com%2 FvfMb+%28 Tempo+-+News+in+a+Flash%29.Do us all favor Amavida and stop this relentless posting of links about someone you clearly dislike. Leave the toilet, go to the airport and bugger off to a place you feel safe (not USA as way more dangerous than here).

If you read the article properly and maturely you would realise as GE points out that it refers to to the LAST 12 months. When PNoy was in power not Rody the. There is a great article in the Daily Tribune yesterday / today headlining with words suggesting PNoys legacy is the drop in competitiveness. That is precisely the mature and educated analysis of this news as the index related to when the LP were in power.

So having said that it still begs questions that why you have never been this rabid when PNoy / LP were in the hot seat despite loads of killings and huge corruption, fall in economic stability etc- why? Are you related to the rich elite etc and don't talk to mere ordinary Joe who stll love the new pres? You seem also nightly worried about walking the street in case you are shot as a drug pusher / user. Why?

So many questions but not enough bandwidth? LOL.

Go back to the look and keep reading but please provide a mature and educated bent to some of the links or tell your true allegiances.

Amavida

09-30-16, 02:12

Interesting, though not surprising and difficult to attribute to a President who has been in office for such a short time. These are year-on-year rankings and derived from data collected during the prior twelve month period, and for most of that time Duterte was not in office. It's difficult to ascribe blame to him over the egregiously poor infrastructure, government inefficiency and corruption for example. The impact of poor transport infrastructure for example--on productivity, cost of moving goods and wasted time--grows almost daily and has been growing for decades. The inability of the government agencies to produce even simple results such as driving licenses and number plates has persisted (and grown worse) for at least three years and the inadequacy of Internet and LTE services are hardly recent phenomena.

GE.Agree this is 'historical' data that accumulated during Aquino's time when it appeared modest economic improvements / stability had occurred. Also agree it's early days. On a flippant note I've learned to embrace my inner third worldness 😊 I kinda' like the inefficiency 😜

Amavida

09-30-16, 03:13

Taxing gambling is disturbingly close to our hobby 😏 but all these proposals are a responsible direction to take in lifting the place out of abject poverty.

http://business.inquirer.net/214097/new-taxes-on-fatty-food-luxury-goods-eyed

http://mindanation.com/5032/tax-plan-linchpin-dutertes-broader-reform-program-dominguez/

http://www.aseantoday.com/2016/08/will-dutertes-new-budget-actually-help-the-poor/

GoodEnough

09-30-16, 04:52

Agree this is 'historical' data that accumulated during Aquino's time when it appeared modest economic improvements / stability had occurred. Also agree it's early days. On a flippant note I've learned to embrace my inner third worldness 😊 I kinda' like the inefficiency 😜We're of one mind on that. When I'm away for too long, I sort of miss the anarchy that's part of everyday life here.

🤗 Too much conformity and an obsession with rules gets wearying after a while, though on the road, if you drive here, you can sometimes wish for a little more attention to international rules. I've had a couple of friends who have told me they would never drive here. I've been driving in the third world for years, so I don't think about it much, but I do tend to get in trouble when I go back to the US as I have to force myself to remember that the rules are enforced.

GE.

Amavida

09-30-16, 06:10

We're of one mind on that. When I'm away for too long, I sort of miss the anarchy that's part of everyday life here.

🤗 Too much conformity and an obsession with rules gets wearying after a while, though on the road, if you drive here, you can sometimes wish for a little more attention to international rules. I've had a couple of friends who have told me they would never drive here. I've been driving in the third world for years, so I don't think about it much, but I do tend to get in trouble when I go back to the US as I have to force myself to remember that the rules are enforced.

GE.What is this rules thing you speak of LOL?

In the years since I have been away Australia has become so much more conformist, hyper material & litigious. I don't want to go back even for short visits these days. The secret of driving in the Phils is never to be in a hurry (deadly) & assume anarchy. Despite driving without incident in many countries, on a brief visit to Oz last July I lost my license in one week! Hypervigilant cops everywhere dressed in full battle gear ready to pounce on the slightest infraction. Here in the Phils a rare indiscretion can be cured with a little Uber or Azul but there the cops have gone insane. Politicians want to enact laws to fine people for walking on the wrong side of the road & yet more laws banning people from looking at their phone whilst walking FFS. I've never thought of myself as a libertarian but I'm getting there LOL! Give me the organised chaos of SEA any day!

Amavida

09-30-16, 07:03

Just when you thought it was safe to read a news paper again here he is again comparing himself to Hitler.

"Hitler massacred three million Jews. Now, there are three million drug addicts. I'd be happy to slaughter them".

http://www.philstar.com/bansa/2016/09/30/1628997/duterte-inalmahan-ang-pagkumpara-kay-hitler

Wicked Roger

09-30-16, 07:40

We're of one mind on that. When I'm away for too long, I sort of miss the anarchy that's part of everyday life here.

🤗 Too much conformity and an obsession with rules gets wearying after a while, though on the road, if you drive here, you can sometimes wish for a little more attention to international rules. I've had a couple of friends who have told me they would never drive here. I've been driving in the third world for years, so I don't think about it much, but I do tend to get in trouble when I go back to the US as I have to force myself to remember that the rules are enforced.

GE.I also agree (odd am agreeing with Amavida for once LOL).

I have driven in chaotic places more than organised places. Middle East (Saudi is very bad), Iran, Cairo and Cebu (with 20 motorbikes in front of you at the lights and 2 more slaloming behind you) LOL Plus other places considered 'wild west'.

When in the western world with the traffic rules, I have at times to stop and figure out what side of the road I should drive on. Also I am constantly reminded by friends to slow down, don't to crazy you turns etc. I have a car with cruise control wherever I go and this mean I rarely get pulled over in the UK, US or Australia (and how can you accrue 12 points in week unless you are driving way over the limit. Or was it double demerits week? And you can't bribe the cops there either with a few pesos LOL).

GoodEnough

09-30-16, 08:00

What is this rules thing you speak of LOL?

In the years since I have been away Australia has become so much more conformist, hyper material & litigious. I don't want to go back even for short visits these days. The secret of driving in the Phils is never to be in a hurry (deadly) & assume anarchy. Despite driving without incident in many countries, on a brief visit to Oz last July I lost my license in one week! Hypervigilant cops everywhere dressed in full battle gear ready to pounce on the slightest infraction. Here in the Phils a rare indiscretion can be cured with a little Uber or Azul but there the cops have gone insane. Politicians want to enact laws to fine people for walking on the wrong side of the road & yet more laws banning people from looking at their phone whilst walking FFS. I've never thought of myself as a libertarian but I'm getting there LOL! Give me the organised chaos of SEA any day!Wish you hadn't told everyone! Now they'll all know and want to come here. Seriously, I supposed it depends on what type of person you are. I have a close friend; a fine and intelligent fellow who lasted less than a year here, decided he really couldn't take the lack of enforces and the general incompetence and craziness of it all and so is headed back to the States. So clearly anarchy isn't for everyone.

I'm extra careful when I go back to the States because I realize that unless I pretty much adhere strictly to traffic / road rules, I'm screwed.

GE.

GoodEnough

09-30-16, 10:53

Prior to the Duterte presidency, I doubt that the August "New York Times" mentioned the Philippines, much less its president more than a couple of times a year. Over the past three months however, the president seems to have been mentioned several times a week, including today in the following: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/01/world/asia/philippines-rodrigo-duterte-hitler-drugs.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news.

GE.

Shining Wit

09-30-16, 13:21

Viewing events from the safety of my basement in England, I thought I would throw petrol on the flames with a couple of theories I have regarding President Duterte.

The first is that his candidacy was a major cock up / conspiracy. The Establishment. The political and business elites. Have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Realizing there was a groundswell of discontent with the established politicos, they encouraged Duterte to stand as a horrible warning of what would happen if the status quo was upset. The Establishment was a safe pair of hands. Being insulated from the everyday feelings of Jose RedHorse, they failed to realize that Duterte was exactly what the voters wanted. The opportunity to give the trapos a good kicking. Pretty much the same sentiments as The Donald becoming the Republican candidate and Brexit.

I have a very strong impression that the Filipino chattering classes have a very overblown idea of their own importance on the world stage. Duterte, having spent most of his career in Davao, has even less idea of their irrelevance, and, with his arrival in Malacanang, has realized that he is way out of his depth, and his comments to Obama, the EU, United Nations et al are the thrashings of a drowning man. They do however, play well with his constituency. His subsequent retractions and flip-flops I put down to the equivalent of his senior civil servants pointing out the realities of realpolitik. What the outcomes will be, I have no idea, except the election of The Donald would create some spectacular results, not least of which would be in the military field.

While putting my head on the guillotine, I would be intrigued to know the number of police casualties -fatal or otherwise- in the operations resulting in the death of over 1000 bottom end drug pushers and addicts. Having seen a few average Filipino plods, I think of the Duke of Wellington ' I do not know what effect they will have on the enemy but, by God, they frighten me.'

I fully anticipate being crucified by both ends of the spectrum, but would appreciate a reasoned rebuttal of my theories, rather than personal abuse.

Thanks.

CallSign Papa

09-30-16, 16:37

I fully anticipate being crucified by both ends of the spectrum, but would appreciate a reasoned rebuttal of my theories, rather than personal abuse.

Thanks.I can only speculate from the 200 or so random pinays on my fake FB account, but they unanimously support him and every base utterance he spews forth with a fervour.

Jack Burton

10-01-16, 01:25

I can only speculate from the 200 or so random pinays on my fake FB account, but they unanimously support him and every base utterance he spews forth with a fervour.The less than high school types supported Grace Poe, perhaps because she is also female. College educated tended to support Roxas, but with many opinions. Nobody is supporting the shabu sellers, but many know someone, even family, who uses shabu, and prefers healing to death. I prefer rule of law, but due to corruption, most Pinays do not expect much. The pre-Duterte situation closely resembled Sicily when the French ruled. This led to the Mafia. Similarly, in Germany in the 1200's, the Holy Vehm arose over corruption and lack of the rule of law. Trump, Duterte, Brexit are reactions to loss of standard of living over the last 40 years.

We see similar in France with LE Pen, Netherlands Geert Wilders, etc. In Euroope, these are always describesas far-right, whereas the same policy would be moderate Republican in USA In Europe. Islam is filling a religious vaccuum, not the case in the Philippines and the USA Doubtful that people will choose to sacrifice in the cause of secular humanism. Demographics suggest that the Philippines and Islam will be more important in 50 years than either is today. End of cheap oil will favor those societies who correctly evaluate the implications. So far this also favors the rest of the world over Europe. USA Is unique in that the poor live close to city centers, while middle class and wealthy live in suburbs and small towns. So USA Has more ability to conserve.

I haven't yet spent enough time in the Philippines to evaluate Duterte. People living in Davao are mostly favorable; a country has different politics than a city.

GoodEnough

10-01-16, 08:03

The less than high school types supported Grace Poe, perhaps because she is also female. College educated tended to support Roxas, but with many opinions. Nobody is supporting the shabu sellers, but many know someone, even family, who uses shabu, and prefers healing to death. I prefer rule of law, but due to corruption, most Pinays do not expect much. The pre-Duterte situation closely resembled Sicily when the French ruled. This led to the Mafia. Similarly, in Germany in the 1200's, the Holy Vehm arose over corruption and lack of the rule of law. Trump, Duterte, Brexit are reactions to loss of standard of living over the last 40 years.

We see similar in France with LE Pen, Netherlands Geert Wilders, etc. In Euroope, these are always describesas far-right, whereas the same policy would be moderate Republican in USA In Europe. Islam is filling a religious vaccuum, not the case in the Philippines and the USA Doubtful that people will choose to sacrifice in the cause of secular humanism. Demographics suggest that the Philippines and Islam will be more important in 50 years than either is today. End of cheap oil will favor those societies who correctly evaluate the implications. So far this also favors the rest of the world over Europe. USA Is unique in that the poor live close to city centers, while middle class and wealthy live in suburbs and small towns. So USA Has more ability to conserve.

I haven't yet spent enough time in the Philippines to evaluate Duterte. People living in Davao are mostly favorable; a country has different politics than a city.Some of your generalizations are factually inaccurate. The less-than-high school types (classes see and D) pretty well overwhelmingly supported Duterte, and in Manila a plurality of class A and be voters supported him as well, though many did not. I think what you fail to appreciate is the groundswell of support came from those who--regardless of social class-were sick of the status quo and hoped for radical, equitable change in their institutions. Simply stated, this country as never had a "rule of law" in the Western sense, has never had stable, functional institutions and has never experienced a golden age to which most people long to return.

Though the rejection of the status quo may appear equivalent to the frustrations expressed by LE Pen voters, in fact the root causes are completely different. There are no social schisms here for example, directed at immigration nor much in the way of public concern over the loss of national sovereignty to a supranational entity. The French right yearns for a return to a France that embodied l'art de vivre; a situation that has never existed here. In my view, in selecting Duterte, Filipinos were in large part rejecting a continuation of five centuries of feudal exploitation; a situation with no parallel in Europe or the US.

And no, the far right in Europe would not be classified as moderate Republican in the US: they would be classified as Trump supporters or at best, Tea Party nutbags.

I have no idea why you claim that demographics will make the Philippines "more important" in 50 years. Important in what sense? It's already got one of the youngest populations in Asia. I'm guessing that geo-politically this place will never be more important than it is right now due to its geography. I doubt it will ever be economically or militarily important, so I'm at a loss to explain your comment.

I have a similar reaction to the "end of cheap oil" contention, given that all of North America is basically energy self-sufficient, and oils is still trading near historical lows. With the continuing development of cleaner energy, the advent of hybrid and battery-driven cars, the erosion of car ownership in the developed world, and the drift of Westerners toward cities where cars have less relevance, it's difficult to know what you're talking about. And by the way the trend in the US is not toward the suburbs but to urban metro areas, so the "elite" are less and less isolated from the rest of the world.

Finally I have no clue what you mean about Islam being "more important" in 50 years. Important to whom?

GE.

Soapy Smith

10-01-16, 09:02

PHP, AUD, CAD and EUR have all loss in the past 2 years to the USD. In some cases the PHP has fare better than others. Not that the USD is far superior, it is just making back lost ground from 8-10 years ago. I have had a similar sense about comparative changes in currency value since the worst of the great recession of eight years ago. So I wonder how this reflects on the Obama Administration's handling of the economy?

Soapy Smith

10-01-16, 09:12

Given that this discussion board, given its heading is about Philippines politics and economics, it appears to have morphed into US Presidential attributes and opinions thereof.I do see a connection. For some of us Yanks there are striking similarities between the Philippine President and one of the aspirants for the American presidency. In practical terms some of us are waiting to see which country becomes less desirable as a place to hang one's hat. The Philippines is becoming a somewhat more attractive option now that we hear of Canada's plan to build a wall to keep us out--in the event Trump is elected--and make the United States pay for it.

Amavida

10-01-16, 14:47

GoodEnough

10-01-16, 18:16

All the fine talk & promises about making things better for the poor is going to look pretty hollow as foreign aid dries up.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/b8e88f4b6a304289b3dd89ef2a691cbb/us-mood-hardens-leader-ally-philippines-stokes-outrageOne of my closest friends in Davao is a highly educated European who runs a successful business here. During a two-hour discussion this evening, he was voluble in expressing his growing fear of fascism taking firm root in the Philippines. He feels--and I agree--that the country lacks à the Judéo-Christian moral foundation common to Western countries, further lacks any real understanding of history and historical contexts, and has been so exploited for so long that a strong leader, unconcerned with civil liberty but promising to lead the country so some level of fantastical greatness may be afforded the opportunity to do so. I respect his opinion greatly and, though I'm not quite as pessimistic, am starting to share his concern.

Our Filipina asawas saw things in a different context, contending that as foreigners we could not possibly understand the inter-relationships between alleged drug lords, highly-placed and powerful politicians and the police. Their fear is that the average Filipino will ultimately be caught between committed Duterte supporters and equally committed opponents. Average Filipinos, they contended, would be the "sandwich" caught between two powerful and opposing parties, and could be devoured in the process, because those who have, for years profited from the oligarchies and feudal relationships will not go quietly into that good night.

My friend also believes that some senior members of the armed forces here will reject out of hand any weakening of the half-century alliance with the United States and that this clash with Duterte's declared intention to cease many forms of military cooperation might eventually erupt.

Given the middle finger extended to the US, the EU and the UN it's feasible that many Western countries will start reconsidering the level and types of aid provided here, which would further open the door to Chinese involvement, and ultimately Chinese influence if not outright hegemony.

I have no idea how any of the above will eventually culminate, nor I suspect does anyone else. But the situation in sufficiently unstable to worry me.

GE.

Dg8787

10-01-16, 19:35

I have had a similar sense about comparative changes in currency value since the worst of the great recession of eight years ago. So I wonder how this reflects on the Obama Administration's handling of the economy?How Obama affected the recovery will be debated for the next one hundred years. Of course it will be debated along party lines. One thing certain is that IF the parties had worked together, the recovery would have been quicker and better. The recovery has been better in the "lame duck" years, maybe because no party could or would do anything!

Wicked Roger

10-01-16, 22:17

All the fine talk & promises about making things better for the poor is going to look pretty hollow as foreign aid dries up.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/b8e88f4b6a304289b3dd89ef2a691cbb/us-mood-hardens-leader-ally-philippines-stokes-outrageAnd the EU has just given more aid to the Philippines Amavida (read ALL the press). I suspect you read the papers your rich friends edit rather than those that others read. Whatever the case, the people like the man. Stop looking at the country through a western eyes and understand what Joe Public wants. Change, way less corruption and as GE said they see the toxic mix of drug lords, politicians and PNP / AFP and don't like it. Drugs is first some say to me and I have friends whose family contain drug addicts (who are scared witless of what may happen but at the same time one said "he deserves it".

Despite all your negative publicity and cherry picking editorial the 16 million people still like him and he has a 91% approval rating. The decline in competitiveness in the country is due to the previous administration. Something you have not alluded to at all which again suggest you have no friends in the country to speak with who really know what is going on and what people feel, are scared witless of being gunned down for some reason or are really not in the Philippines.

I ask the locals what they think wherever I travel (and I travel around a lot). Philippines is no different. As GE noted this place does have a real moral compass, is rules by rich elite and / or powerful leaders and they all watch so much rubbish on TV they live in a sort of fantasy land. So trying to look at it with your values / eyes is a mistake. The Americans did that with the Middle East and now that place is totally screwed up with Iran looking to be the beneficiary. Something no one in that region nor the USA etc want.

Soapy Smith

10-02-16, 03:54

How Obama affected the recovery will be debated for the next one hundred years. Of course it will be debated along party lines. One thing certain is that IF the parties had worked together, the recovery would have been quicker and better. The recovery has been better in the "lame duck" years, maybe because no party could or would do anything!I agree with your first three sentences. But I think your fourth sentence needs to give heed to your first sentence. Anyway, it amazes me how critics, including some who have posted here, think that a president is singularly responsible for the economy and all its contours, as though the president alone causes gas prices to increase or decrease dramatically. This sort of simplistic analysis may not have any particular party loyalties. And, because my tongue was planted deep in my cheek when I posted those sentences, I suppose I played into it as well. I apologize for not taking this stuff more seriously.

In deference to FF's note that this is the Philippine politics and economics thread, we might reflect on whether the same sort of singular responsibility ought to be laid at the feet of a Philippine president such as Duterte or Aquino. Considering how Philippine politics is characterized by a cult of personality rather than political parties organized around distinctive policy preferences, we might think that personality counts for a lot in what transpires. I am not sure I think this is correct, however. Personality obviously matters as to who gets elected, which largely explains why so many entertainers, news personalities, and athletes end up in office. And a personality like Duterte might in fact effect some short-term crackdown on drugs and other sinful behaviors, but creating real change in a society like the Philippines is a much more daunting task. Some deeply-embedded cultural practices get in the way, and institutions intended to reinforce the control that powerful families hold are very resistant to change.

GoodEnough

10-02-16, 04:04

I read an article this morning (I forget from which source) reporting that the German Ministry of Froegin Affairs had summoned the Philippine Ambassador to offer a strong rebuke to Duterte's reference to Hitler and the Holocaust. Evidently, the Germans are seriously angry. I've also started to notice some strong anti-Duterte comments from previous supporters on Facebook, describing the embarrassment they feel over how the country is being portrayed in the foreign press. While hardly a random sample, perhaps these comments suggest an erosion of popular support.

What I cannot understand is why he's gratuitously backing the country into a corner and undermining relationships that have been in place for decades. Again, for me it just defies common sense. But then, as an American, perhaps it's hypocritical of me to voice such bewilderment when my own countrymen and women have nominated an orange-tinted sociopath for the presidency.

GE.

Soapy Smith

10-02-16, 06:30

So trying to look at it with your values / eyes is a mistake. The Americans did that with the Middle East and now that place is totally screwed up with Iran looking to be the beneficiary. Something no one in that region nor the USA etc want.I agree with your point about trying to understand any foreign culture through your own cultural lens. I also agree that the United States has often acted arrogantly and foolishly with its money and its military in the Middle East, especially over the last 13 or so years. But you seem to be saying the Middle East is screwed up because of the United States. Uh, wait a minute. This is a region that has suffered under brutal dictatorships and repressive royal families for centuries, not decades, not just since the United States aligned itself with Israel. Yes, for centuries. And these dictatorships and royal families' influence have been intertwined in deep-seated animosities among the 50 odd sects of Islam. These animosities go back nearly 15 centuries.

So, yes, the 2003 invasion of Iraq was probably the stupidest act of foreign policy by the United States in several decades, perhaps even a century. And, looking from the outside, it is fair to conclude, as you do, that the strategy seemed utterly ignorant about the historical and societal context of the region. Although, wait, the invading force included troops from the UK, Australia and Poland as well. And I recall that Tony Blair was taken in by the bogus Niger "yellow cake memo" just as much as Bush 2. Bush's excuse is that he was surrounded by hawks and oil people; what is Blair's? But setting aside this colossal blunder, instead of blaming the United States, or capitalism, or modernity, or Islamophobia, at what point do Middle Easterners get to step up and take responsibility for their own historical shit?

Ditto the Philippines. Yes, they were colonized by the Spanish for over 300 years, and just when they thought they'd won their independence from Spain, the United States took them over under the end of a gun. But they've had their independence since 1946. In the 1950's they were Asia's shining light, and Manila had been for several decades regarded as "the Pearl of the Orient. " So how is it that Taiwan, under the brutal oppression of the KMT for more than three decades, and South Korea, under a succession of military dictators for much of the same period, are now thriving economies and inspired democracies, yet the Philippines' governmental institutions are still stuck in the 1950's? The United States had close relationships with both these countries, and to this day maintains forces in South Korea. I have had numerous Koreans acknowledge that the only thing that deters the Kim regime from attacking them is the presence of the Americans. Not because of the numbers of troops, but their mere presence—and their large nearby Navy.

I haven't often felt this discouraged about the Philippines, but unlike you and the Filipinos you interact with, I see Duterte as a major menace, not a good guy because he is cleaning up the drugs. I interact with Filipinos, some poor and uneducated, and others quite well-educated, who view him like I do. I make no claims about their representativeness, and I am aware that a Pulse Asia poll in July may have found some 91% popularity for Duterte. But it's not clear what that means. Marcos, after all, was quite popular even in the early period of Martial Law. Popularity is overrated; it may allow Duterte some protection from criticism for a while, but real change requires a lot more than popularity.

I think that the current influence of the United States in the Philippines is a mixed bag, and probably some of us in ISG, not only the Americans, help to perpetuate the dependency even while we take our pleasures. It may also be that those from outside who would intervene often do so from a position of societal ignorance. Hutsori and somebody else had a thoughtful exchange about this recently. But given the Philippine track record in democracy, isn't it fair at least for us outsiders to ask some tough questions?

Like you, I agree that AV's posts in this thread have been sort of intense, and he and I have sometimes sparred in the forum over other issues. But I think your repeated reference to him and his toilet is sort of in the same mold. I would prefer that you address his ideas, as you sometimes do, but knock off the personal insults. Thanks.

Soapy Smith

10-02-16, 07:10

What I cannot understand is why he's gratuitously backing the country into a corner and undermining relationships that have been in place for decades. Again, for me it just defies common sense. But then, as an American, perhaps it's hypocritical of me to voice such bewilderment when my own countrymen and women have nominated an orange-tinted sociopath for the presidency. GE.LOL This is not the first time we've looked stupid in the world's eyes. And sometimes the world's eyes don't lie, but it seems the same could be said for Duterte and the Philippines.

You noted a few days ago that one of his platform issues was decentralization. It may not be a bad idea, given that sometimes there are exemplary innovations done by some local government units, although the performance across LGUs is often quite uneven. Also, he might actually have support from the provincial dynasties for doing it.

But what is puzzling is that, if he is serious about cozying up to China and Russia, he is gravitating to role models who are among the most centralized in the world, while simultaneously rejecting the most prominently decentralized democratic system, the United States.

P.S. You are missing out on some of the sheer entertainment value of what is unfolding in the states, since you presumably don't get the same wall-to-wall cable news coverage that we get.

Amavida

10-02-16, 07:56

The first is that his candidacy was a major cock up / conspiracy. The Establishment. The political and business elites. Have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Realizing there was a groundswell of discontent with the established politicos, they encouraged Duterte to stand as a horrible warning of what would happen if the status quo was upset. The Establishment was a safe pair of hands. Being insulated from the everyday feelings of Jose RedHorse, they failed to realize that Duterte was exactly what the voters wanted. The opportunity to give the trapos a good kicking. Pretty much the same sentiments as The Donald becoming the Republican candidate and Brexit.G'day SW, respectfully, that's a beautiful theory mate, but I think the truth is simpler. Granted there are long standing severe frustrations by everyday Filipinos with the establishment we ask ourselves why did the mayor of Davao, after all these years, suddenly lurch into action?

I have a very strong impression that the Filipino chattering classes have a very overblown idea of their own importance on the world stage. Duterte, having spent most of his career in Davao, has even less idea of their irrelevance, and, with his arrival in Malacanang, has realized that he is way out of his depth, and his comments to Obama, the EU, United Nations et al are the thrashings of a drowning man. They do however, play well with his constituency. His subsequent retractions and flip-flops I put down to the equivalent of his senior civil servants pointing out the realities of realpolitik. What the outcomes will be, I have no idea, except the election of The Donald would create some spectacular results, not least of which would be in the military field.No quarrel with you on Duterte's lack of demeanour for the job of president. Trump much like Duterte is all about riding a wave of populism, shooting off his mouth and paying scant attention to detail. What he will do when gets into the Oval Office is open to speculation. My sense is Duterte will continue to be Duterte I. E. Talk tough and look for reasons to kill people. He's an old man, he's not going to change. Take into account, he has spent his entire political life as a single issue politician.

While putting my head on the guillotine, I would be intrigued to know the number of police casualties -fatal or otherwise- in the operations resulting in the death of over 1000 bottom end drug pushers and addicts. Having seen a few average Filipino plods, I think of the Duke of Wellington ' I do not know what effect they will have on the enemy but, by God, they frighten me.'The daily TV news carries a steady diet of police shoot outs. Officers do die in these engagements hence police go in very heavily armed but poorly trained with little planning. I don't have figures but far more than developed countries.

I fully anticipate being crucified by both ends of the spectrum, but would appreciate a reasoned rebuttal of my theories, rather than personal abuse.

Thanks.I'm sorry, this is personal abuse, crucifixion is three doors down on the right LOL!

Shining Wit

10-02-16, 08:39

I'm sorry, this is personal abuse, crucifixion is three doors down on the right LOL!No personal abuse, a reasoned difference of opinion.

If crucifixion is three doors down, is the rack two down and Wicked Roger next door? LOL.

Amavida

10-02-16, 08:46

I read an article this morning (I forget from which source) reporting that the German Ministry of Froegin Affairs had summoned the Philippine Ambassador to offer a strong rebuke to Duterte's reference to Hitler and the Holocaust. Evidently, the Germans are seriously angry. I've also started to notice some strong anti-Duterte comments from previous supporters on Facebook, describing the embarrassment they feel over how the country is being portrayed in the foreign press. While hardly a random sample, perhaps these comments suggest an erosion of popular support.Widely reported GE:

http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/germany-tells-philippine-envoy-duterte-hitler-remarks-unacceptable

https://jenkers.com/en#!t=9337843.

http://sevendaynews.com/2016/09/30/the-german-foreign-ministry-summoned-the-ambassador-of-the-philippines-because-of-the-presidents-statements-about-hitler/

He risks long term economic damage through loss of aid or it may blow over.

On the subject of aid, Australia is currently in the thrall of a right wing extremist government whose willingness to please its corporate masters means it's on a binge of ideological budgetary cuts. Don't count on too much economic aid from them.

Amavida

10-02-16, 09:38

the 2003 invasion of Iraq was probably the stupidest act of foreign policy by the United States in several decades, perhaps even a century. And, looking from the outside, it is fair to conclude, as you do, that the strategy seemed utterly ignorant about the historical and societal context of the region. Although, wait, the invading force included troops from the UK, Australia and Poland as well. And I recall that Tony Blair was taken in by the bogus Niger "yellow cake memo" just as much as Bush 2. Bush's excuse is that he was surrounded by hawks and oil people; what is Blair's? But setting aside this colossal blunder, instead of blaming the United States, or capitalism, or modernity, or Islamophobia, at what point do Middle Easterners get to step up and take responsibility for their own historical shit?I would be remiss in not pointing out that Australia's then PM (John Howard), despite clear advice that the 'intelligence' used to justify a military adventure was bogus, chose to ignore it and go all in with Bush 2's lie. Both Blair and Howard have subsequently admitted they knew they were proceeding on known false claims.

I haven't often felt this discouraged about the Philippines, but unlike you and the Filipinos you interact with, I see Duterte as a major menace, not a good guy because he is cleaning up the drugs. I interact with Filipinos, some poor and uneducated, and others quite well-educated, who view him like I do. Popularity is overrated; it may allow Duterte some protection from criticism for a while, but real change requires a lot more than popularity.
I share your disappointment for the folks here but looking at the economic silver lining for foreigners.

CallSign Papa

10-02-16, 09:59

GoodEnough

10-02-16, 11:39

Widely reported GE:

http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/germany-tells-philippine-envoy-duterte-hitler-remarks-unacceptable

https://jenkers.com/en#!t=9337843.

http://sevendaynews.com/2016/09/30/the-german-foreign-ministry-summoned-the-ambassador-of-the-philippines-because-of-the-presidents-statements-about-hitler/

He risks long term economic damage through loss of aid or it may blow over.

On the subject of aid, Australia is currently in the thrall of a right wing extremist government whose willingness to please its corporate masters means it's on a binge of ideological budgetary cuts. Don't count on too much economic aid from them.Just to add to the glut of links, here's one in which the president brags that the country will eventually be able to stand on its own, and for the moment will develop new alliances with China and Russia: http://www.update.ph/2016/09/duterte-time-will-come-ph-will-no-longer-needs-other-countries/9792 So I guess now he'll rely on the well-known benevolence of those two countries. Aside from the fact that Russia is essentially bankrupt and makes nothing that anyone wants to buy, and China seeks to dominate what had once been largely Philippine waters, what could possibly go wrong?

GE.

GoodEnough

10-02-16, 11:59

I am by no means the expert on PH culture or history, but I do wonder if Duterte is the not the antithesis of the traditional PH moral compass. We all know how intrinsic the (largely catholic) church is in everyday life, and yet here is a guy openly saying "I will kill", embraced by the masses.
The traditional moral compass here is based to a large part on exploitation, self-aggrandizement and lots of killing, thinly disguised under a patina of Democratic pretense. Within that context, Duterte's actions are consistent with 500 years of history; sort of like the same play with different actors. The major difference as I see it is that all pretext of normalcy has been dissipated, and there's no longer any democratic pretense. The catholic church, like most large institutions here is largely focused on the continued maintenance and expansion of its own power at the expense of the poor and appears to be in thrall to Duterte as well given that to date the president hasn't done anything to circumscribe its power: the reproductive health bill bitterly opposed by the church still hasn't been implemented for example.

What's interesting--and perhaps thoroughly frightening--is that he's openly courting closer alliances with the well-known avatars of democratic values, China and Russia. So I guess his logic is that the best way to protect the country from Chinese dominance of the China Sea is to throw himself into a military alliance with China, which is already preventing Philippine fishing vessels from trawling in their traditional waters. Maybe China will throw in a rail line or two in exchange for permanent occupation of a hotly-contested maritime resource. The reasons for pandering to Putin's delusion of recapturing Russia's "great power" status are even more obscure, as it's difficult to see what Russia has to offer anyone, except maybe natural gas. Given that Russia has little or no presence in SE Asia, perhaps Putin will leap at the chance.

The silent players in the recent brouhahas have been the regional powers Japan and Korea, neither of which appear to have taken a public stance. Given that both are to a large measure dependent on US military protection, perhaps silence is the best course. It's perhaps noteworthy that in a month or so subsequent to the election, there was a lot of noise about Korea's willingness to invest in heavy rail here; noise which has somehow faded and I've seen no further news about Korea's ostensible eagerness to invest.

GE.

Amavida

10-02-16, 12:39

Just to add to the glut of links, here's one in which the president brags that the country will eventually be able to stand on its own, and for the moment will develop new alliances with China and Russia: http://www.update.ph/2016/09/duterte-time-will-come-ph-will-no-longer-needs-other-countries/9792 So I guess now he'll rely on the well-known benevolence of those two countries. Aside from the fact that Russia is essentially bankrupt and makes nothing that anyone wants to buy, and China seeks to dominate what had once been largely Philippine waters, what could possibly go wrong?

GE.Thanks for the link GE. A very inspiring speech given to a bunch of marines at a base.

On a very disturbing note, Duterte has ordered 120,000 glock side arms from Israel (the country he has just deeply offended with remarks comparing himself favourably to Hitler) to be issued to every member of the armed services. What could go wrong eh?

1) The illicit firearms market is flooded with these weapons as they are stolen / lost / pawned.

2) Chillingly is this Duterte pre-arming the military for martial law?

https://209.188.21.24/articles/2016-10-02/news/use-your-new-glocks-to-shoot-errant-mates/169708?_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter&utm_campaign=newsletter

On my personal WTF? Meter this rates an 11/10.

Wicked Roger

10-02-16, 13:17

On a very disturbing note, Duterte has ordered 120,000 glock side arms from Israel (the country he has just deeply offended with remarks comparing himself favourably to Hitler) to be issued to every member of the armed services. What could go wrong eh?

On my personal WTF? Meter this rates an 11/10.Business is business and the rest is bola and dirty politics. Happens all over the world, you can insult them and then trade with them, have high morals aspiration about bribery and then back door deals.

Many Arab countries trade behind third party companies with Israel and so why not the Philippines. Is commerce and that is what they like. On all accounts I thought the army etc did not have decent / workable weapons due mostly am sure to corruption from previous administrations (plenty reports in this etc in the press) so maybe he is trying to get decent and working guns to replace those that other before him either sold to the NPA etc or just bought incomplete weapons etc.

As to the WTF meter? Why not apply this to the USA gun crime stats and the country clearly allows insane idiots to buy automatic guns with limited tests and buy many (ie more than one) - to me that is WTF not this as this is just him looking after those who relies on the protect him, I would do the same (cozy up to the armed forces etc).

Wicked Roger

10-02-16, 13:33

On the subject of aid, Australia is currently in the thrall of a right wing extremist government whose willingness to please its corporate masters means it's on a binge of ideological budgetary cuts. Don't count on too much economic aid from them.How is Turnbull a right wing extremist? Pauline Hanson certainly is and unfortunately in Queensland some think she is balanced and sensible (for a comparative think of Michelle Bachmann in the US political landscape. Close comparison, both nutty and stupid IMHO). But the Aussie government is not extremist and you should qualify what you just said.

All governments whether right or left wing have paymasters- is a fact of life and politics. RK recently spoke about huge Ausaid to the country so double check facts Amavida so despite whatever you say some countries need a base in the Philippines or would you prefer China and Russia for your pinoy friends? I know many prefer the USA whatever that brings as China and Russia as GE said are not the greatest models of economic stability or human rights.

I say again and again. It appears you hate it there or are scared so why keep hammering a president who has 91% approval and judge him on western values that may not be appropriate for the country? So leave and go somewhere where you feel happier as to me your constant barrage of negative links suggest you are not liking where you are (if indeed you are in the Philippines) and clearly you won't be in Aussie either if you think Turnbull is right wing (I assume you think Keating was a miracle worker / great leader and economist with 15%+ interest rates?

X Man

10-02-16, 13:36

Since Glocks are made in Austria and Smyrna Georgia, why are they being purchased in Israel?

Thanks for the link GE. A very inspiring speech given to a bunch of marines at a base.

On a very disturbing note, Duterte has ordered 120,000 glock side arms from Israel (the country he has just deeply offended with remarks comparing himself favourably to Hitler) to be issued to every member of the armed services. What could go wrong eh?

1) The illicit firearms market is flooded with these weapons as they are stolen / lost / pawned.

2) Chillingly is this Duterte pre-arming the military for martial law?

https://209.188.21.24/articles/2016-10-02/news/use-your-new-glocks-to-shoot-errant-mates/169708?_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter&utm_campaign=newsletter

On my personal WTF? Meter this rates an 11/10.

Amavida

10-02-16, 13:44

'Surrenderees' (sic) being pressed into service to meet the skyrocketing demand for coffins.

https://209.188.21.24/articles/2016-10-02/news/drug-surrenderees-turn-to-casket-making/169717?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter&utm_campaign=newsletter

This would be funny if it wasn't so sickening.

GoodEnough

10-02-16, 14:10

Thanks for the link GE. A very inspiring speech given to a bunch of marines at a base.

On a very disturbing note, Duterte has ordered 120,000 glock side arms from Israel (the country he has just deeply offended with remarks comparing himself favourably to Hitler) to be issued to every member of the armed services. What could go wrong eh?

1) The illicit firearms market is flooded with these weapons as they are stolen / lost / pawned.

2) Chillingly is this Duterte pre-arming the military for martial law?

https://209.188.21.24/articles/2016-10-02/news/use-your-new-glocks-to-shoot-errant-mates/169708?_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=newsletter&utm_content=newsletter&utm_campaign=newsletter

On my personal WTF? Meter this rates an 11/10.Note however that the pistols were "donated," which is typical since this place can't or won't pay for anything on its own. However, just to allay your fears, remember that the government can't afford ammunition so it's not likely that the guns will be used for much of anything offensive. Again, not surprising considering it also can't afford to issue driving licenses or license plates, upgrade airport ground facilities, install radars, or upgrade computer systems in government offices.

GE.

Amavida

10-02-16, 14:22

Note however that the pistols were "donated," which is typical since this place can't or won't pay for anything on its own. However, just to allay your fears, remember that the government can't afford ammunition so it's not likely that the guns will be used for much of anything offensive. Again, not surprising considering it also can't afford to issue driving licenses or license plates, upgrade airport ground facilities, install radars, or upgrade computer systems in government offices.

GE.GE, as I understand it, the handful of guns handed out to the policewomen at that ceremony were donated but the 120,000 Glocks have been ordered by Duterte's government. Please correct me if I have wrong information.

Amavida

10-02-16, 14:28

GoodEnough

10-02-16, 14:57

GE, as I understand it, the handful of guns handed out to the policewomen at that ceremony were donated but the 120,000 Glocks have been ordered by Duterte's government. Please correct me if I have wrong information.I can't correct you and I'll take your word for it. I wonder though if Israel is providing the weapons as a straight purchase, or as a "gift" obliquely paid for by the US or as part of bilateral military aid. I'm merely sceptical in light of the fact that these guys so rarely pay for anything.

GE.

Amavida

10-02-16, 15:02

I can't correct you and I'll take your word for it. I wonder though if Israel is providing the weapons as a straight purchase, or as a "gift" obliquely paid for by the US or as part of bilateral military aid. I'm merely sceptical in light of the fact that these guys so rarely pay for anything.

GE.Your scepticism is well founded LOL! 😅.

Amavida

10-03-16, 13:14

FreebieFan

10-03-16, 13:39

Member #4558

10-03-16, 14:55

This particular part of the Philippines Board has turned itself into my " daily must read ".

Very interesting, lots of thoughtful opinions, lots of superior articulation (superior to my limited vocabulary) and some wise mature heads sharing their thoughts wisdom and opinions.

In the words of RM " I'm lovin it ".Word. Not having a native English tongue I can't understand everything when well articulated guys like Huts / GE (others as well of course) gets it going. But I can sniff their main points (I hope). Not that I normally would pay any interest in Phil politics but with DU30 in office I admit its hard not to. He is quite a character. Demon or Saint, we will see. At least the people of Phils (commoners) for once got a president who doesn't dance by the establishments pipe. If Donald is elected in USA as well this will be interesting times.

Wicked Roger

10-03-16, 15:45

Yep, this will really the poor.

"The mission takes place in a little over six months, and at the escalation of statements of the Philippine president, now is the time to say if we will or not," Brussels State Secretary for External Trade seecile Jodogne.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/10/03/1629902/brussels-wants-to-cancel-royal-visit-philippinesAnd so what? Am certain many have no idea where Belgium is even those studying tourism at university LOL.

So what would Belgium offer this country? Not much in my view (maybe hand out and vague trade promises that are meaningless and won't help with much) and I can't see what this has to do with anything. Other news articles / organs don't even mention it so for me a non issue.

Now if the UK, USA etc cancelled maybe. China seem happy also so talking to non entities in terms of political clout (apart from maybe some hand outs) is not important.

As for barangay polls. Talk to some people and see their view. The ones I know say there is a high chance that there will be corrupted polls / voting (WTF you say not in the Philippines LOL) but what they also say is this gives time to try and make them cleaner (though not pure white by any means) so many I know are happy.

Now Amavida? Why is Malcolm Turnbull right wing and an extremist? We (well me) are waiting your discourse on this? Do you work for the CHR in Manaila by any chance given your rather extremist views on saving the world and drug addicts LOL?

Shining Wit

10-03-16, 18:08

Wicked Roger

10-03-16, 19:44

This was an interesting link saying hat many feel threatened by drug addicts. What I found a tad surprising was the statistics on the percentage of part of the country it is claimed are fearful (80+% in Manila).

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/10/04/1630168/62-pinoys-fear-addicts-sws-poll

But also in Mindanao the fear factor decreased (maybe due to the new President being based there?

So maybe the voters view about what is happening (not the mongers view unless of he is shagging druggies while sniffing shabu in a poor part of town LOL) is more important? Who knows.

But it is clear that as more and more are caught from more middle class or celebrity circles (example Sabrina M, Krista Miller. FHM model / sexy actresses etc) and immediately dobbing in their suppliers etc, that many of the 16 million are happy. Reading some Facebook comments that I was sent seems to support this. Some are gleeful that Sbarina and Krista (plus 2 other models) were caught. And where I am now, the OFWs are all happy bunnies with the President and are chatting about the recent arrests saying "is about time the richer people get arrested or killed".

So. How does this swing with your views Amavida that the country is going to the dogs and the new administration is bad when many I know blame PNoy for letting it become a cancer and pandemic and thus happy that it being cleaned up and really don't care if the drug guys get killed. You seem to blame it all on 3000 dead while Mexico seems to survive with 150,000 drug deaths?

What DG said was interesting as seems more press about what the US thinks in the local media than in the US and I don't see much in the Aussie media either apart from what the local media report so again are you really a CHR implant in the board?

Now if we were to speak about the lack of direction for investment, infrastructure etc we may come to an agreement as this is definitely needed plus a number of other things but seems there are so many fires to put out it is hard to know what to do next?

Amavida

10-04-16, 00:29

GoodEnough

10-04-16, 00:47

I'm trying hard not to have a binary reductionist view of the political situation here in the Phils but the administration is sure making it hard for me.

Today's brainfart courtesy of 'Teddy boy' Locsin the Philippine ambassador to the UN (no less) indulging himself to the fullest extent on twitter. The fun starts August 24 and continues to go down hill.

I'll let folks make up their own mind about this. My question is how long will it take the proles to start thinking they may have made (another) terrible mistake?

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/821499/teddyboys-tweet-sparks-word-warThanks for posting the link. I hadn't seen it, and since I don't "tweet" I'd not seen Locsin's remarks either. I'm starting to feel like I'm living in the middle of an Ionesco play in which the absurd has become the new normal, up is down and "something is happening here but you don't know what it is. " I simply cannot make sense out of any of the public pronouncements.

What remains interesting is that, public rants and expletives not withstanding, there's been no official change in policy toward the US, the EU or the UN. For example, though Duterte publicly called for the US to leave Mindanao, and stridently told his audience that this year's military exercises with the US would be the last, no official communiqués in this regard have been sent as far as I know.

As to WR's contention that Belgium doesn't matter, I disagree. For me, the point is not whether Belgium provides significant aid to the Philippines, which it doesn't, but that it's still another Western democracy, the seat of the EU, preferring yet another slap in the face. Having a bunch of NATO allies taking public stances severely critical of the government doesn't bode well for future cooperation, and that saddens me.

I used to think I had arrived at a reasonable understanding of the country. I no longer feel that way.

GE.

Soapy Smith

10-04-16, 03:57

This particular part of the Philippines Board has turned itself into my " daily must read ".

Very interesting, lots of thoughtful opinions, lots of superior articulation (superior to my limited vocabulary) and some wise mature heads sharing their thoughts wisdom and opinions.

In the words of RM " I'm lovin it ".Ditto. In the first three years and four months (1/5/12 to 5/9/16) the Phils Politics and Economics thread had 203 posts. Since Duterte's election in May there have been another 264 posts. RK posted something at the time of the election about needing to "wait and see. " I want to do the same, but I am torn by the fear of what may unfold and yet realistic enough to know that nothing that I or anybody else in the forum does is going to make any difference in the outcome.

Amavida

10-04-16, 11:40

And so what? Am certain many have no idea where Belgium is even those studying tourism at university LOL.

So what would Belgium offer this country? Not much in my view (maybe hand out and vague trade promises that are meaningless and won't help with much) and I can't see what this has to do with anything. Other news articles / organs don't even mention it so for me a non issue.
Belgium is small beer, no argument. They are not the only ones. Could be pissing off all your trade partners and allies is going to inflict long term damage on the economy?

As for barangay polls. Talk to some people and see their view. The ones I know say there is a high chance that there will be corrupted polls / voting (WTF you say not in the Philippines LOL) but what they also say is this gives time to try and make them cleaner (though not pure white by any means) so many I know are happy.
You keep telling me Duterte is riding a wave of popularity. I get that. It's not unanimous and criticism is growing.

Now Amavida? Why is Malcolm Turnbull right wing and an extremist? We (well me) are waiting your discourse on this? Do you work for the CHR in Manaila by any chance given your rather extremist views on saving the world and drug addicts LOL?Turnbull a millionaire, was a Chardonnay sipping darling of the Sydney upper crust. He knifed his loony right wing PM but has been beholden to the extreme right wing of his party ever since. Off topic. Sorry.

Amavida

10-04-16, 11:49

Amavida

10-04-16, 11:57

GoodEnough

10-04-16, 12:44

Two thoughts 1) A genuine attempt to reduce graft and corruption in the military and PNP or 2) Buying their loyalty as Marcos did prior to the imposition of martial law?

Is this another increase over and above the budgetary measures announced a couple of months ago? It seems so but someone better informed is welcome to correct me.

I note these funds are not coming from the budget according to this report.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/821504/duterte-gives-soldiers-cops-huge-pay-hikeIt's tough to know. I think it's fairly common knowledge that the PNP and AFP have been getting screwed over for a long time, with enormous financial benefits going to retiring senior officers, and the foot soldiers getting very little. This might be just an honest attempt to boost the morale of the guys on the ground. I note that the article doesn't mention anything about base salaries, so I'm not sure if these were increased as well.

GE.

FreebieFan

10-05-16, 03:38

Amavida

10-05-16, 04:33

Thanks to FF for pointing us to this:

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/10/05/1630527/government-self-destructing-no-need-coup

Amavida

10-05-16, 04:50

If you click on the comments section at the bottom of each latest greatest presidential proclamation, as I do, from the Inquirer, you will freely see that the people have already started talking about what an embarassment, what a fool (one called him Idoioterte), what an incompetent they now have as a president.

The numbers of comments are growing daily. At some time, someone will break ground and boldly announce " he should go ". Then we will see.

Trillanes, no stranger to a positive press, said " we don't need a coup, he will talk himself out of the presidency ".
There are many comparisons with Venezuela who also suffered from another foul mouthed anti US blow hard.You're right FF his support is by no means unanimous. The clock is ticking for Duterte. Pressure is on to demonstrate meaningful improvements or go down politically. The other alternative is to seize power.

Amavida

10-05-16, 08:30

Reasonable conjecture. Would be fine with me as an expat but of course the long suffering Filipinos not so fortunate.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/business/10/05/16/peso-may-weaken-to-p501-on-duterte-worries-global-risks-bmi-research

Amavida

10-05-16, 09:06

GoodEnough

10-05-16, 09:08

You're right FF his support is by no means unanimous. The clock is ticking for Duterte. Pressure is on to demonstrate meaningful improvements or go down politically. The other alternative is to seize power.I doubt that anything dry dramatic will occur in the short or intermediate term. The Filipinos with whom I typically speak fall into two different camps' they either remain strongly supportive of their President and believe he's being unfairly vilified, or they're as bewildered as I am about what he's trying to accomplish but are willing to wait and see if there's some sort of master plan. Either way, I not noted any meaningful groundswell of negative opinion.

My guess--which is worth exactly nothing--is that he'll start to restrain himself in public discourse and the furor will abate. It's important, I think, to remember that despite all of the vitriol and threats, nothing has actually happened yet to change the course of the couontry's foreign policy. The US has received no indication (formally) that this is the last of the annual military exercises, US troop have not been ordered out of Mindanao, neither the US, nor the UN nor the EU have cut off any forecast aid, and life in diplomatic circles continues as it had before.

". a tale, full of sound and fury, told by an idiot, signifying nothing. ".

GE.

GoodEnough

10-05-16, 09:28

Zackary Kr

10-05-16, 13:39

I don't know how many of you saw today's editorial in the "New York Times," but I thought it was interesting in to respects; first in its strong disapproval of Duterte, but equally interesting was the fact that it ran at all. As I've noted before, during prior administrations months could pass in national papers with no mention of the Philippines. Now, it's a rare week that there aren't several articles. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/05/opinion/president-duterte-the-wild-card-in-us-filipino-relations.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0.

GE.I actually have quite a different take on the situation. If Duterte is playing his politics as adeptly as I think he is, he's been reading from the North Korean regime playbook on how to treat allies and adversaries. In short of just one year, Duterte has been able to take his country to the front pages of major newspapers worldwide.

For over a few decades, the Philippines has been mostly maligned and taken for granted as an American ally. The amount of aid the Philippines receives has been paltry to how much other countries have been receiving in terms of aid and support. But then suddenly, he starts chumming up to the Chinese, talks brusquely (in my opinion quite calculated) and insults the US president, the Pope, and an American ambassador, and you have the beginnings of someone who gives the impression of being unstable and thus unpredictable. It's natural that normal people treat "crazy" people with a wide berth and more caution.

I think Duterte has been doing this deliberately and quite masterfully to play the US and China against each other. In the long run, no matter what happens, his country will come out in a win-win situation with both the US and China vying for his attention and favoritism. The US will start paying more attention to the Philippines in terms of aid and other benefits. China will counter the US' attention by offering more favorable countermeasures as well as having freer and uncontested access to the Spratly's.

The Philippines has been positioning itself into a much more significant position all due to Duterte's calculated moves. Perhaps I'm giving him too much credit but that's how I'm reading the situation. Duterte is not as crazy and stupid that people assume him to be. It actually all plays out to his advantage.

Wicked Roger

10-05-16, 15:45

I think it's a reasonable assumption that this two billion peso allocation is a slush fund for political purposes.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/821902/trillanes-asks-duterte-where-will-p2b-intel-fund-goAmavida,

If you continue to post links that only damn the current president I will do my best to point the folly of such and your clear bias towards the current administration as best I can as well as place things in some context. Though others may not think this is possible and disagree.

As for this article you don't state that Trillanes is the attack dog (well one of them de Lima being another) of the rich elite / LP and has before been caught lying and walked out of the senate. He is currently facing censure in the Senate.

Now while he was on Pnoys / LP side the last 6 years he never really question the pork barrel scam, how the drug lords and politicians made huge sums of money and nor did he do anything to question the then government about it spending plans (well not much). He then is assumed by many voters to take LP cash to try and tarnish Rody the with the bank records. Amazing as he has access to accounts despite the heinously stupid bank secrecy laws (odd and he has never told anyone how he broke the law on this). His SALN showed limited resources but suddenly he pays super million of pesos for an anti Rody the advert before the elections. This raised lots of eyebrows when it became a poor man paid millions. The rumor was that the LP gave him the cash LOL.

So that is the context to Trillanes. So suggest you contextualize your links as these are getting way too much and silly giving an overall bad impressions and one of you that seems scared.

Why don't you post articles showing the previous administrations dirty tricks, the money taken in the PDAF scam and comment on that? - or are you really one of the LP signed up voters with LP mates and are firmly in the camp of the rich elite or CHR? You still don't answer those questions.

As for pesos? You are a monger, you may / may not live here? You exchange Aussie of US dollar for pesos. Now you get more so you can buy more for the same dollar amount. So what.

Now in the context of the economy it is different matter but I can't attribute this to the president's action. Likely his inaction on the matters I mentioned earlier. Also what about the Brits and Brexit plus the impact there on sterling. Shall we mention all places impacted by weak currency. The pesos was not in its right place under Pnoy is my theory and there is adjustment. It is cylical like many thing so it will come back once he decides to address the investment issues IMHO (but am not an economist am just a monger).

Wicked Roger

10-05-16, 15:54

You're right FF his support is by no means unanimous. The clock is ticking for Duterte. Pressure is on to demonstrate meaningful improvements or go down politically. The other alternative is to seize power.Perhaps this is your wishful thinking? As PNoy promised lots never passed much of significance, apparently allowed drugs to flourish, was told by the SC that his DAP scheme was unconstitutional, had many of his cabinet embroiled in the PDAF scam etc So while many think of him as a weak ineffective leader (see the editorials for the comments) who achieved bugger all, why would people seize power if the same happens again Amavida? IMHO PNoy will end up like the past 2 presidents, facing the threat of jail for things he did but no one ever tried to seize power from him and I doubt it will happen here either.

Your last statement clearly shows where you park your bum Amavida and you still won't say why you are are so bias. I ask again are you a CHR stooge? Do you have anything to fear from the crackdown on drugs? Are you a LP voter? Do you live in a poor part of town? But you never reply and claim PM Turnbull is a right wing looney (you truly need your eyes testing. Where shall I western Union the cash to help you LOL).

Mbsl65

10-05-16, 16:23

GoodEnough

10-05-16, 22:55

I actually have quite a different take on the situation. If Duterte is playing his politics as adeptly as I think he is, he's been reading from the North Korean regime playbook on how to treat allies and adversaries. In short of just one year, Duterte has been able to take his country to the front pages of major newspapers worldwide.

The Philippines has been positioning itself into a much more significant position all due to Duterte's calculated moves. Perhaps I'm giving him too much credit but that's how I'm reading the situation. Duterte is not as crazy and stupid that people assume him to be. It actually all plays out to his advantage.Odd that you would cite North Korea as an exemplar given the wretched lives of its citizens, but in a sense you may be correct and he's playing both ends against the middle. The problem he's going to have sooner rather than later however is that his campaign created enormous expectations, on the part of average Filipinos, for better lives, and the fiction that "winning" an unwinnable drug war will positively impact the incomes and life changes of Filipinos is going to start to wear thin. Sooner rather than later people are going to want to see some action to create a better investor-friendly, job-creating environment, to see some improvements in the precarious state of transportation infrastructure, and to see broad based efforts to attack the myriads of other problems afflicting the country.

To date, I've not read about any initiatives by the government regarding any of the aforementioned. Again, I understand and perhaps even agree with the notion of creating a more independent, Philippines-centric foreign policy. Accomplishing this however need not mean alienating the US, the UN and the EU while cozying up to China and Russia. This is a nation that needs all of the help it can get, and creating a zero sum game makes little or no sense to me.

I do agree that the President is not a stupid man. I've met him and came away with the impression that he's highly intelligent and capable. I also like him. That having been said, I'm still at a loss to divine a grand strategy on the basis of his recent verbal assaults, and it does bother me that after three or four months, the government has not unveiled any new strategies of which I'm aware to ameliorate the huge array of problems confronting the country.

GE.

Waste Mgmt

10-06-16, 00:12

GoodEnough

10-06-16, 03:23

Duterte should be mindful of reality when he's bloviating. China is, unquestionably, a threat to PH (and much of Asia). Since the beginning of time, cozying up to the country that is the greatest threat to you has turned out positive exactly zero times, when the threat is unquestionably and dramatically superior militarily. The PH would be beyond foolish to encourage / court the PRC to be its master, as some states in Asia have already done- cough, Cambodia.

There is a groundswell of support in the US for a foreign policy that moves away from nation building, involvement in any sort of military use unless it is in response to a direct threat to the US mainland, and the use of US troops and tax dollars to defend ungrateful allies who pay nothing / next to nothing for said defense. The US is $20 trillion in debt, and climbing rapidly- It cannot continue to do this. Sure, if the criminal Hillary gets elected, it'll be a continuation of the disastrous Obama policies- well. Coupled with the corrupt quid pro quo of Clinton Foundation pay for play. But the other 1/2 of the country that support Trump want a strong military, but also an isolationist foreign policy. The PH (and South Korea, Japan, Europe, etc.) would have to start pulling it's weight. Be careful what you wish for.We would likely never agree politically as I would much prefer to become a Canadian citizen than to live in a country in which that sociopath was president. However, I agree that encouraging a closer relationship with China--which is still interfering with the rights of Philippine fishermen--is not without peril. '.

In part, the problem stems from a lack of national positive self-image, in that for many Filipinos the US is perceived as a sort of big brother with this country as one of its client states. Duterte seems determined to change that perception. The problem for him is that the country remains poor, unable to defend itself against much of any threat, and dependent on the support received from other countries and institutions. In short, like it or not, this country cannot survive in isolation (nor I think can any other country in a globalized world.) Duterte, I believes is sick of living within the shadow of the US, but the sad reality is that, weak as it is economically and militarily, it's going to live in the shadow of another country.

From the US perspective, we need to ensure that the S. China sea remains an open maritime resource available to international shipping. For us, Naval access to Philippines port resources (which we built for the most part) is key to ensuring that this objective is reached. Conversely, the US "needs" the Philippines far less than the Philippines needs the US which is the only logical deterrent to China.

My best guess is that rhetoric notwithstanding, the status quo won't change much.

GE.

Amavida

10-06-16, 05:25

I think his life span is getting shorter and shorter. I have a serious concern over visiting Philippines. I don't want to get stuck there during an internal squabble.Quick summary as I see it: Duterte's murderous killing spree continues unabated. This together with his highly inappropriate brain farts directed to ally and aid donor countries is receiving press coverage worldwide, as it bloody well should. There is little to no concrete policy progress on dealing with the nation's economic plight. Duterte is splashing out big money on his military and police which will surely blow holes in the budget. Duterte is currently under investigation regarding his involvement in running Death squads in Davao city.

In many ways this is all depressingly familiar to past presidents with the exception of the greatly expanded extra judicial killings.

Superficially life goes on but the threat of martial law or death in the cross fire of a drug killing is real. We take it day by day now not knowing where this madness will take us or when it will end.

There is a risk Duterte could suddenly take into his head to go after other vices. Is it worth the risk? You be the judge, I can't predict what will happen tomorrow.

Amavida

10-06-16, 05:35

Sooner or later the personality cult of Duterte will be tested.

http://newslab.philstar.com/war-on-drugs/poverty#closerLookDrugsCrime.

NOZ2215

10-06-16, 06:40

I am very interested in the changing political scene here, I made the decision about 18 months ago to set-up part of my retirement here (it's a long story and I won't bother you all with the details) but my partner / GF's father is a police officer (shocked when we were introduced as she didn't give me a heads up, just said he work for the government) Anyway he's a good guy and has very strong community values, everyone for miles around comes to him for help. I have had many long discussions with him and other local government officials and one thing they all support the president on his his hard stance on drugs.

We know all over the world drugs are destroying the lives of our kids whether it's from the poor or ave middle income families, no one has been able to stop the penetration of this stuff, Yes there's support in the western world for user's but no matter the supply keeps feeding down.

As we all know basic principles of supply and demand, what has been said to me is they are not going to ever stop the supply so lets kill the demand. While there are many moral issues (who are we to speak) it is having a big effect in a short time.

As I read the last few pages of messages I think most of you have valid points, no one knows clearly what his end game is, maybe he doesn't know himself, but people want change they are willing to support as they see this as the only way forward because for so many years the old saying all talk and no action.

Also several pages ago the discussion was about firearms, I've been involved in a lot of very risky situations over 30 yrs living in Asia, and whenever someone has offered me a gun to protect myself I've always reject it, I think it's actually kept me alive because I've had guns stuck in my face multiple times and I'm sure if I had of pulled a gun myself I won't be typing this message, but now I carry one.

My GF's father handed it to me and said you protect my daughter, I would never carry it on me but I do have it in an easy accessible spot at home, why did he say this as the dealers are feeling it and are looking at revenge against good police for this crack down, there money source is being effected.

I have a US passport even through I wasn't born in the US, but the US has let many of it's allies down, the world has change from the President being the leader of the free world and the sooner everyone in the US realizes that and works with people more instead of bullying is way through things then we may see more change for the better.

Yes, its a bit of a soapbox rant but its a free world.

Anyway, continue to treat the ladies right and enjoy yourselves.

Amavida

10-06-16, 07:09

Your last statement clearly shows where you park your bum Amavida and you still won't say why you are are so bias. I ask again are you a CHR stooge? Do you have anything to fear from the crackdown on drugs? Are you a LP voter? Do you live in a poor part of town? But you never reply and claim PM Turnbull is a right wing looney (you truly need your eyes testing. Where shall I western Union the cash to help you LOL).Reply ko sa inyo ngayon sige po?

Go stick ya' head up a dead bears bum mate!

GoodEnough

10-06-16, 07:39

Sooner or later the personality cult of Duterte will be tested.

http://newslab.philstar.com/war-on-drugs/poverty#closerLookDrugsCrime.Only, I think to the extent that all personality cults--which is all of politics--here are tested. This is a country that conflates personality cults and politics. There are no real political parties for example, except for those that form around charismatic personalities and then fade as the glitter rubs off the start. Immediately subsequent to Duterte's election, for example, dozens of members of other parties fled quickly to his party. Thus parties don't reflect any institutionalized set of policies as these derive (and change) with the personalities who head the parties.

As other countries such as the US and Mexico have demonstrated the "war on drugs" is ultimately unwinnable through violence as the profits are too enormous and there will always be those foolish enough to want to take the risks. What Duterte may be able to do however is to break the ties between drug manufacture and distribution and high-level politicians and other members of government. If he could break or severely fray those ties he will have accomplished a great deal. To date, his efforts haven't resulted in the arrest of any of the major players, but these are early days.

GE.

Amavida

10-06-16, 08:04

Only, I think to the extent that all personality cults--which is all of politics--here are tested. This is a country that conflates personality cults and politics. There are no real political parties for example, except for those that form around charismatic personalities and then fade as the glitter rubs off the start. Immediately subsequent to Duterte's election, for example, dozens of members of other parties fled quickly to his party. Thus parties don't reflect any institutionalized set of policies as these derive (and change) with the personalities who head the parties.
Excellent description GE well done!

As other countries such as the US and Mexico have demonstrated the "war on drugs" is ultimately unwinnable through violence as the profits are too enormous and there will always be those foolish enough to want to take the risks. What Duterte may be able to do however is to break the ties between drug manufacture and distribution and high-level politicians and other members of government. If he could break or severely fray those ties he will have accomplished a great deal. To date, his efforts haven't resulted in the arrest of any of the major players, but these are early days.
Fair comment. As an aside, folks around my villa in ZDN scoff at Duterte's 'war on drugs' now. The common belief is that the labs have moved off shore on vessels and the drug business continues. I guess you have seen the reports of big drug bust of methamphetamine and the separate but stupendous cocaine seizures at NAIA?

Drug lords not happy me thinks LOL!

Amavida

10-06-16, 08:11

Perhaps Duterte has picked exactly the wrong time to think of hitching his wagon to China. Discuss.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-05/u-s-is-rare-bright-spot-in-southeast-asia-as-china-exports-drop

Wicked Roger

10-06-16, 14:44

Reply ko sa inyo ngayon sige po?

Go stick ya' head up a dead bears bum mate!Such a eloquent response one befitting likely bogan who thinks Shorten is the white knight with all his union baggage and that fact the royal commission said "you are not a credible witness" LOL.

Sorry I go astray LOL.

This was reported in Rappler and Philstar but not the Inquirer (well I did not see it but if it did not then no surprises there).

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/10/06/1630924/sws-76-pinoys-satisfied-dutertes-performance

As NOZ said in his FR the people (IE those who live there the voters not mongers like you etc) love him still and want drugs gone as much as possible (agree GE won't ever go away) - this is what all my pinay friends tell me and the OFWs I regularly come across say. None criticize him, all are very happy and some shocked at the extent and depth of the drug menace but laugh when 'starlets' and 'celebrities' are caught (expect more am sure as they all squeal).

So despite Amavida's regular update of rubbish backed by no analysis except some meaningless shout out plus telling some to put his head up a bears ass, the voters like him for now so put up with it or leave Amavida? Again I ask. From you bolthole / CR in ZDN are you surrounded and supported by CHR people, LP people as your tone is always anti Rody the and you never mentioned how pleased you are that the drugs menace is being addressed. This after according to the media it increased under the previous administration? So what have you to worry about?

Wicked Roger

10-06-16, 15:00

Immediately subsequent to Duterte's election, for example, dozens of members of other parties fled quickly to his party. Thus parties don't reflect any institutionalized set of policies as these derive (and change) with the personalities who head the parties.

What Duterte may be able to do however is to break the ties between drug manufacture and distribution and high-level politicians and other members of government. If he could break or severely fray those ties he will have accomplished a great deal. To date, his efforts haven't resulted in the arrest of any of the major players, but these are early days.

GE.Politicians are looking after themselves first and their constituents are nowhere on their radar in many cases. Anywhere in the world this is the case IMHO.

Some are good and care but many are there for 3-4 years and need to make as much cash as possible in case they get un-elected next time around. UK politicians no different as some jump ship claiming a love of a socialist / conservative agenda that they never had before. Aussie the same. Remove a leader because they may lose their cozy job (but still lost LOL). One UK politician jumped ship and lost at the next election while the guy who replaced him won LOL Another was a left wing socialist (and that's being nice) when I was at university (was amazing to hear her far left diatribe then and ended up a Liberal member for the parliament when she grew up LOL).

So Philippine politicians are no different though maybe more corrupt (on a grander scale maybe).

Some I speak say Rody the strategy if there is one is to get the poor users scared witless and ask them to tell all about the suppliers. So will take time to go up the food chain as there are so much drugs in the country. Certainly when Sabrina M and Krista Miller (aka 'sexy starlets the latter having visited a drug lord in hospital to "sell a condo") got nabbed they immediately gave up the larger suppliers As did Karen Bordador so the papers say. Now these are not high profile but they are higher than the usual suspects. The recent arrest in AC of an actor (Mary Anthony Fernandez) for weed- he had 1 kg in his car - (he tested positive, has had 2 goes at rehab and some papers are not very nice to him it seems at the moment though some are) is another case. One of my friends said all knew he was an addict but his rich parents always saved him and hoped now there is no preference. Also they read comments in social media somewhere from celebrity friends saying the police we harsh etc (she laughs says he was an addict so why they defend him unless they are afraid).

So I agree GE if he cuts of the supply that is a start and from all accounts shabu prices are rising. For sure some are still making huge profits but his aim to get to the narco politicians and the barangay captains who are tainted with drug money. This will take time but so far his popularity is high and people are happy. Except Amavida who won't say why LOL.

Wicked Roger

10-06-16, 15:09

- because drugs (of course).

Ordering hundreds of thousands of side arms for the military and 'deferring' elections. Hmmm that sounds familiar.

http://www.mb.com.ph/duterte-points-to-narco-politics-as-he-supports-brgy-sk-poll-deferment/And? The reason given is because the administration wants to try and cleanse barangays of drug pushed etc so the elections are not as tainted with narco money. The administration is supposed to issue another list of barangay captains etc (said to be over a 1000 names) so maybe this is sensible and not the silly stuff your head thinks up. Again I ask If you are that worried why do you (supposedly) stay in ZDN as Mindanao is not generally seen as a safe place for many westerners unless of course you not one.

So you prefer to have narco politicians in charge? Tell us Amavida.

Wicked Roger

10-06-16, 17:34

Something else to ponder about society and drugs and why many support Rody the (Amavida please note). To many, drugs are a menace and ruin the fabric of many families. It grew significantly over the last few years according to reports but some more 'sensitive' souls apparently support drugs and don't like the clean up. If other methods were used some say they clearly were not effective. Hence the support for the current administration in its endeavors against drugs and how it does it.

These 2 articles today seem to show some notion of support to this (or that it is working but certainly there is a long way to go.

http://www.philstar.com/freeman-opinion/2016/10/06/1630887/editorial-better-be-careful-what-we-wish

http://www.tribune.net.ph/metro/intensified-campaign-against-illegal-drugs-results-in-higher-price-of-shabu

Amavida

10-07-16, 00:35

This was reported in Rappler and Philstar but not the Inquirer (well I did not see it but if it did not then no surprises there).

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/10/06/1630924/sws-76-pinoys-satisfied-dutertes-performance
You heart President Death?

We get that.

A link supporting the notion he is riding a wave of populism, as did Hitler and many other despots in the beginning?

We get that.

Amavida

10-07-16, 01:00

And? The reason given is because the administration wants to try and cleanse barangays
In the same way Hitler & many other demagogues 'cleansed'.

It's killing. I do not agree with the populace running around killing each other. I do not agree with a government sanctioning killing.

The administration is supposed to issue another list of barangay captains etc (said to be over a 1000 names) so maybe this is sensible and not the silly stuff your head thinks up. That may be the outcome. No one knows where all this bloodshed will lead though. I've noticed people holding extreme right wing views cannot be questioned.

Again I ask If you are that worried why do you (supposedly) stay in ZDN as Mindanao is not generally seen as a safe place for many westerners unless of course you not one.
Straight from the X-Man manual.

Again, been here over 10 years. Have a nice condo in Clark & a villa on the coast outside Dipolog. I am concerned about the political situation. I have a great life & I don't want some jerk politician fouling it up.

Amavida

10-07-16, 01:22

Nice to see a balanced editorial today.

So far Duterte has been running around like a toddler without a nappy, the palace following behind cleaning up his droppings. I think we all hope for better.

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/opinion/2016/10/06/pooled-editorial-first-100-days-extreme-caution-ahead-502123

Wicked Roger

10-07-16, 05:06

You heart President Death?

We get that.

A link supporting the notion he is riding a wave of populism, as did Hitler and many other despots in the beginning?

We get that.This is where you get it wrong Amavida. Rody the has to prove himself and if he would do something about investment and infrastructure he would get better marks. But he is doing something. Which after years of other people and the rich elite screwing everyone especially their fellow country men / women and doing noting or worse letting bad things get more bad is better that have another PNoy in charge. Drugs are a huge menace and I don't like that at all. So anyone who does someone to stop it is good regardless of the tactic.

You seem to want a comfy life in ZDN so prefer no change and let your pinoy friends be further screwed. So you support the drug proliferation etc, the narco politicians because it suits your lifestyle? That is one interpretation as otherwise if so frightened leave the country.

I cannot see how the new administrations actions against drugs can in any way impact your cozy life unless there are things you do or people you know who will be impacted. I do what I want when I want and I don't feel at all threatened wandering around Ayala, going to the beach etc. Why should you? The police never bother me, I don't draw attention to myself, I don't do drugs, don't associate myself with anyone who does etc. Am just plain normal and avoid all the areas where they maybe trouble (incl rarely going anywhere near Colon etc) and I would not wander around Divisoria either.

So what makes you feel as if your cozy life is threatened, I can't see how the death of druggies will do?

You are clearly a feeble sensitive character if you think the killing of drug addicts / pushers is bad. A bleeding heart liberal some would say but I am also but I also look at the country. The people, and all other aspects and realize something must be done. Too many times the rich just get away with it and let the poor guy take the blame (eg Bangladesh cyber heist. Who is being charged? The little person). In my lady's home town the once powerful drug lords gave themselves up as so scared. The folks are happy and now dob in anyone doing drugs. Is this not progress? Or do you prefer it to be the same or get worse and if so why? As you seem to defend the drugs problem and offer no other solution to cleanse what is a pandemic in many peoples eyes (aka editorials).

So while I don't heart Rody the what he is dong about drugs is OK with me as it is a radical shift and sometimes we need to change the paradigm to make change. We do this in business to shake up the status quo so he does it with a country and some (mainly the rich and western bleeding heart liberals plus the LP) don't like. And for me IMHO, a few thousand less drug addicts that could steal from me or kill me for my mobile is fine.