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Member #4643
01-05-12, 03:23
This thread is to discuss issues such as the corruption that apparently is rampant in the Phils and the woeful state of economics there.

Frenzy3
01-05-12, 04:24
This thread is to discuss issues such as the corruption that apparently is rampant in the Phils and the woeful state of economics there.Both over exaggerated.

If you think it is that bad do not come here.

As some one who lives here it no worse to aust where I use to live.

Unless you have real experiance do not post.

And use http://www.InternationalSexGuide.info/forum/showthread.php?2468-Philippines-History-and-Politics

Mod please delete this thread

Member #4643
01-05-12, 20:14
Both over exaggerated.

If you think it is that bad do not come here.

As some one who lives here it no worse to aust where I use to live.

Unless you have real experiance do not post.

And use http://www.InternationalSexGuide.info/forum/showthread.php?2468-Philippines-History-and-Politics

Mod please delete this threadFrenzy3: I love the Philippines. I have nothing bad to say about either the corruption in the Philippines nor the deteriorating (or not improving) economic situation. I just think that people should take this conversation out of " Chat Rooms & Pen Pals", where there is more about politics and economics than sex.

I have nothing against people posting their rants about the government in: http://www.InternationalSexGuide.info/forum/showthread.php?2468-Philippines-History-and-Politics And deleting this thread, but the " Chat Rooms & Pen Pals" thread is overwhelmingly not about " Chat Rooms & Pen Pals"." Chat Rooms & Pen Pals" is my favorite section of the ISG board, so I would like to see the discourse focus on the topic at hand.

Frenzy3: you have had a lot of good posts, but your posts on Filipino philosophy, the educational system, etc would be better placed elsewhere. By the way, no one has posted in the Philippines-History-and-Politics thread since October. It seems like a great place to highlight your observations as an ex pat.

Daggisn
06-07-13, 18:04
Does anyone think that the monger scene will change, now that Joseph Estrada has been elected as mayor? We know that Alfred Lim had previously pledged to clean up the cities sex industry, which resulted in a few thinly disguised attempts at extortion against the night club owners (most famously the closure of L. A. Cafe). I simply wondered if we might see any changes with the change of Mayor, or is it just more of the same, with different faces?

Soapy Smith
06-08-13, 19:39
Does anyone think that the monger scene will change, now that Joseph Estrada has been elected as mayor? We know that Alfred Lim had previously pledged to clean up the cities sex industry, which resulted in a few thinly disguised attempts at extortion against the night club owners (most famously the closure of L. A. Cafe). I simply wondered if we might see any changes with the change of Mayor, or is it just more of the same, with different faces?There are numerous posts on this topic in the General Info thread beginning about May 13th.

FreebieFan
07-24-13, 04:17
http://www.rappler.com/nation/special-coverage/sona/2013/34621-foreigner-open-letter-sona-crying-copPhilippines has plenty of do gooders around at the moment.

The comments are the normal to be expected comments. I guess in the west, we have become accepting of anyone of any nationality having the right and freedom to demonstrate. That conceot hasnt yet taken hold in Asia. If this demo was in Thailand or Indonesia the comments about " foreigners" would be the same.

Capistrano
10-07-13, 13:52
Does anyone think that the monger scene will change, now that Joseph Estrada has been elected as mayor? We know that Alfred Lim had previously pledged to clean up the cities sex industry, which resulted in a few thinly disguised attempts at extortion against the night club owners (most famously the closure of L. A. Cafe). I simply wondered if we might see any changes with the change of Mayor, or is it just more of the same, with different faces?I have no news about Erap, but I'm sure Casino and nightclubs will be the center of attraction now, as we all know Erap has a video gambling on one of the casino, he was the President of the Philippines during those times.

Red Kilt
10-08-13, 04:06
I have no news about Erap, but I'm sure Casino and nightclubs will be the center of attraction now, as we all know Erap has a video gambling on one of the casino, he was the President of the Philippines during those times.Things change Cap.

With the advent of cell phone cameras and a renewed emphasis on community people seeking out government officials who rort the system in broad daylight, don't expect to see Erap in any casino. The LTO ASec is leaving at end of October because she was caught using a casino slot machine.

Nothing has changed yet in the City of Manila, except for much easier traffic flows because Erap changed the bus routes and excluded unregistered buses. You can actually drive around Escolta and Espana now.

Soapy Smith
10-08-13, 08:03
With the advent of cell phone cameras and a renewed emphasis on community people seeking out government officials who rort the system in broad daylight, don't expect to see Erap in any casino.And for the time being Erap may be a bit distracted trying to keep his son and other party loyalists out of impeachment proceedings because of their alleged involvement in pocketing government money sent to bogus NGOs. It seems those activities were not occurring in broad daylight, but the media has put them there now.

Econo Tech
10-09-13, 03:30
And for the time being Erap may be a bit distracted trying to keep his son and other party loyalists out of impeachment proceedings because of their alleged involvement in pocketing government money sent to bogus NGOs. It seems those activities were not occurring in broad daylight, but the media has put them there now.On the brighter side, I am seeing some more Filipinos with more common sense speaking up. Though I am sure their voices get drowned out by the Process following / Protocol Following / Legal eagles. (like PNoy who again refused to apologise to HK, saying it is not in the PH culture to apologise. Etc. Etc and the whole Legal gang telling yes, our boss is perfectly right, the faulty one was the dead guy. Not us sitting on our asses doing nothing.)

http://correctphilippines.org/basketcase/

http://vincenton.wordpress.com

A big difference vs a few years ago, when they were still worshiping Imelda when she was visiting. And falling all over themselves trying to pay for her this and that, regardless of the fact the Lady is worth a million times more than the poor office workers and maids trying to impress and never mind the fact she has billions stashed elsewhere.

Some things don't change in Ph.

Capistrano
10-10-13, 12:18
Things change Cap.

With the advent of cell phone cameras and a renewed emphasis on community people seeking out government officials who rort the system in broad daylight, don't expect to see Erap in any casino. The LTO ASec is leaving at end of October because she was caught using a casino slot machine.

Nothing has changed yet in the City of Manila, except for much easier traffic flows because Erap changed the bus routes and excluded unregistered buses. You can actually drive around Escolta and Espana now.I agree with you regarding his bus rerouting, but I think it is not a permanent remedy. As we all know many commuters sacrifices a lot, his intention is great but he should not stop from there, he should think of much better way which is beneficial to all. And Speaking of "Manila by Night" theme, he should come out to a strategy from which people involve will not be subjected to exploitation. Manila has a lot of problems even those great leaders of Manila before did not make it world class. Erap is a great leader way back on his San Juan City days, so its a challenge for him to give Manilenos a glory.

Stroker Ace88
10-13-13, 03:37
I agree with you regarding his bus rerouting, but I think it is not a permanent remedy. As we all know many commuters sacrifices a lot, his intention is great but he should not stop from there, he should think of much better way which is beneficial to all. And Speaking of "Manila by Night" theme, he should come out to a strategy from which people involve will not be subjected to exploitation. Manila has a lot of problems even those great leaders of Manila before did not make it world class. Erap is a great leader way back on his San Juan City days, so its a challenge for him to give Manilenos a glory.Are you a local?

Capistrano
10-21-13, 05:54
Are you a local?Yes sir, I am a local resident of Manila. I stay for more than 20 years and I witnessed the government of different mayors here. We'll lets see how Erap performs in Manila, as I have said his San Juan City is quite good and competitive from other Metro Manila cities.

Soapy Smith
10-22-13, 07:31
Erap is a great leader way back on his San Juan City days, so its a challenge for him to give Manilenos a glory.Although San Juan was a municipality, not a city, when Erap was mayor. That means he had relatively less autonomy from the national government than those areas of Metro Manila that were already cities at the time. It is true that San Juan currently has a GDP per capita that is well above average for the Metro area, and it has relatively less poverty than many of the other cities. But is its prosperity a result of Erap's leadership, or did he inherit the prosperity? Also, what about the caliber of advisers that surrounded him in earlier times as compared to more recently? I have heard it suggested that part of the downfall leading to his ouster from the presidency in 2001 was because he let his ego lead him to disregard advisers who tried to steer him away from shadowy types who subsequently got him in trouble. Most of those advisers are either dead or doing other things now.

Filipinos have this hero complex: they're always just waiting for the next great leader to lift them from their squalor and corruption. Stated another way, the Philippines has a politics of personality, rather than an established rule of law that gives relatively equal access to the political and economic systems as envisioned in the industrialized West. When a leader stands out as heroic, it is often because the system is dysfunctional. Good systems have layers of people in the middle who keep things running because they know how systems work and they know how to make the leader's policies come to life. In functional democracies and effective organizations the leader is almost (but not quite) a figure head. People in the middle in Philippine government lack the authority to make things run right. What the Philippines needs is not the next great heroic leader, but institutions that make for a level playing field for most Filipinos. What exists now are institutions that protect elite interests.

KongKing
10-22-13, 13:13
Generally I live here in the Philippines without major complaint and I have learnt to adapt to the idiosyncrasies of Philippines drivers, customer service, cultural differences, Filipina "have you had lunch" texts and many other things. But one thing that does frustrate and despair me is the seeming inability in the Philippines to plan, integrate and implement development plans, whether it be energy generation (overcoming the chronic shortage) , power station shut downs (maintenance during peak usage periods) , highway development, and other examples. Here is another (in) glorious example today.

This morning's newspapers announced that passengers travelling in and out of Manila's Ninoy airport are "advised to brace for delays on October 23 as the aviation authority downgrades the airport's operating capacity from 42 to 22 landings and take-offs per hour to give way to maintenance work on its radar system". This was announced by the Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines yesterday."The maintenance work will take place starting 1am on October 23 and will last until 7am on October 24th". The term "delays" is a wonderful euphemism for cancellations.

When flights are reduced to 11 takeoffs and 11 landings per hour, almost half the regular scheduling, and aircraft separations increased from 2 minutes to 7 minutes we can expect more than delays. We can expect cancellations. Indeed in the last few minutes I have just received a posting saying many domestic flights to and from Manila will be cancelled. See:

http://rp1.abs-cbnnews.com/business/10/22/13/list-cancelled-flights-due-naia-radar-system-upgrade

So if you are planning to fly in or out of Manila tomorrow, maybe flying overseas, then your plans may well be disrupted / cancelled by what the CAAP Deputy Director General calls "scheduled preventative maintenance". Can you imagine any other international airport in the world (Heathrow, Singapore, Hong Kong, Atlanta or anywhere) where at less than 48 hours notice they are prepared to half the airport flights for "preventative maintenance" and throw thousands of people, and airlines, into total travel disarray?

GoodEnough
10-22-13, 14:42
This morning's newspapers announced that passengers travelling in and out of Manila's Ninoy airport are "advised to brace for delays on October 23 as the aviation authority downgrades the airport's operating capacity from 42 to 22 landings and take-offs per hour to give way to maintenance work on its radar system".

So if you are planning to fly in or out of Manila tomorrow, maybe flying overseas, then your plans may well be disrupted / cancelled by what the CAAP Deputy Director General calls "scheduled preventative maintenance". Can you imagine any other international airport in the world (Heathrow, Singapore, Hong Kong, Atlanta or anywhere) where at less than 48 hours notice they are prepared to half the airport flights for "preventative maintenance" and throw thousands of people, and airlines, into total travel disarray?I just returned from a few day in Bangkok, and was struck, once again, by the enormous disparities in infrastructure development between the two countries. I've got no explanation for the overhwelming ineptitude of the government's ability to plan and then executive much of anything in the way of development. I marveled, once again at the 6-10 lane elevated expressways of Bangkok, which didn't exist 20 years ago, at the prompt, clean and cheap SkyTrain and at the new, modern and efficient airport that was built in less time than it took the Philippines to try (unsuccessfully) to build and fully open one new terminal. Again, I've no plausible explanation for the discrepencies.

I also wonder, in light of the utter lack of vision that characterizes this country about the implications of the imminent (2015) ASEAN Integration.

GE

Sammon
10-22-13, 15:18
I just returned from a few day in Bangkok, and was struck, once again, by the enormous disparities in infrastructure development between the two countries. I've got no explanation for the overhwelming ineptitude of the government's ability to plan and then executive much of anything in the way of development. I marveled, once again at the 6-10 lane elevated expressways of Bangkok, which didn't exist 20 years ago, at the prompt, clean and cheap SkyTrain and at the new, modern and efficient airport that was built in less time than it took the Philippines to try (unsuccessfully) to build and fully open one new terminal. Again, I've no plausible explanation for the discrepencies.

I also wonder, in light of the utter lack of vision that characterizes this country about the implications of the imminent (2015) ASEAN Integration.

GEUnlike Thailand Philippines has issues. It is a Island country so need to import practically everything by sea. It costs money. Very few Island countries have progressed. Japan and Taiwan is helped by Soviet Union before the war and US after the war. Philippines is trying and has built many bridges and some expressways. Buildings are getting better and strong. There is hardly any natural resources. Couple that with

Population explosion and Phi has a real problem. It is not easy to build super highways connecting all the islands which would require innumerable bridges and tunnels. To their credit over the years they have upgradedairports and access roads. Air traffic has increased and Phi people can fly anywhere in the country cheap. In spite of congestion there are buses, jeepneys, trikes etc available everywhere even in remote places so that people can travel cheap and effectively. Very few countries can boast about this cheap and effective transportation. Living costs has not increased too much.

As for Thailand along with modernization comes inflation. Living costs are much higher in recent years. No wonder girls demand more money. Unless you go to the provinces living in BKK and other big cities are

Expensive.

Hutsori
10-22-13, 16:06
Unlike Thailand Philippines has issues. It is a Island country so need to import practically everything by sea.Few countries are entirely self-sufficient. Taiwan, Korea, and Japan surely aren't blessed with abundant natural resources, and two of the three were nearly obliterated by war. Yet all have prospered by 1) focusing in labour-intensive export-oriented industries such textiles, garments, footwear, etc. at the initial stage of industrial development ; 2) forcing labour to work long hours at very low pay; 3) implementing anti-consumption policies to encourage high savings that were tapped by local industries to foster growth; 4) developing human capital through education; 5) cutting the population growth rate; 6) eagerness to cultivate overseas markets; 7) gov't supported and at times directed industrial development; and 8) protected domestic markets provided the local businesses the cash cow needed to finance cut-throat pricing overseas.


Very few Island countries have progressed.Mention that in London and see how far you'll get with it.


Japan and Taiwan is helped by Soviet Union before the warWTF? Stupidest thing I've read in long while.

Sammon
10-22-13, 16:27
Few countries are entirely self-sufficient. Taiwan, Korea, and Japan surely aren't blessed with abundant natural resources,

Mention that in London and see how far you'll get with it.

WTF? Stupidest thing I've read in long while.Korea is a peninsula not a Island country. All the wealth in England came by conquering other countries before and after that by Industrial revolution and low population.

If you read the history Russia was supplying Japan with raw materials and technology to build super aircraft carriers, fighter planes etc. Japan does not have natural resources. Read it.

Pip Jaeger
10-23-13, 00:40
So if you are planning to fly in or out of Manila tomorrow, maybe flying overseas, then your plans may well be disrupted / cancelled by what the CAAP Deputy Director General calls "scheduled preventative maintenance". Can you imagine any other international airport in the world (Heathrow, Singapore, Hong Kong, Atlanta or anywhere) where at less than 48 hours notice they are prepared to half the airport flights for "preventative maintenance" and throw thousands of people, and airlines, into total travel disarray?I see it differently. Most likely they had a major equipment failure and are currently operating on backup systems. It's taken time to diagnose the problem (s) and get the necessary parts / new equipment to replace it. Saying it's "scheduled preventative maintenance" is their way of saving face.

Hutsori
10-23-13, 06:49
Korea is a peninsula not a Island country. All the wealth in England came by conquering other countries before and after that by Industrial revolution and low population.

If you read the history Russia was supplying Japan with raw materials and technology to build super aircraft carriers, fighter planes etc. Japan does not have natural resources. Read it.Nice wiggle, but ineffective. Though a peninsula S. Korea is quasi island since North Korea cuts it off from the Asian mainland. It depends on sea transport as much as any other island state.

Japan had coal, the fuel of industrialization. But more importantly Japan has human resources - its spectacularly ingenious people.

The UK's wealth came from ingenuity. It was this that gave her the ability the conquer and rule the world.

You wrote: "Japan and Taiwan is helped by Soviet Union before the war." The Soviet Union was NOT Russia, though dumdums confuse the two. In 1870, an Japanese Imperial decree determined that Britain's Royal Navy should be the model for development, and Japan's first modern warships were built in the UK. The French gained influence in the late 19th century. The Russians advised the Japanese on aircraft carrier development? Hahahaha. The Japanese built these decades before the Russians and later the Soviets. Their first carrier, for helicopters, was launched in 1965. The Japs were responsible for world's first successful naval-launched air raids in 1914. The Japanese Navy was a pioneer in naval aviation, having commissioned the world's first built-from-the-keel-up carrier, the Hosho.

What do you mean by " super aircraft carriers"? A supercarrier? The Soviets never completed one and Imperial Russia never attempted building one. Of course post WWII the Japanese weren't building supercarriers, but it has built carriers of a smaller size. This was done without Soviet or post-Soviet Russian assistance.

For Japan's airpower, a simple read of wiki gives this history: "Japanese army aviation was organized into a separate chain of command within the Ministry of War of Japan in 1919, and aircraft were being used in combat roles during the 1920 Siberian Intervention against the Bolshevik Red Army near Vladivostok. The first aircraft factory in Japan, Nakajima Aircraft Company, was founded in 1916 and later obtained a license to produce the Nieuport 24 and Nieuport 29C1 as well as the Hispano-Suiza engine. Nakajima later license-produced the Gloster Gannet and Bristol Jupiter. Similarly, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries started producing aircraft under license from Sopwith in 1921, and Kawasaki Heavy Industries started producing the Salmson bomber from France, and hired German engineers such as Dr. Richard Vogt to produce original designs such as the Type 88 bomber. Kawasaki also produced aircraft engines under license from BMW. By the end of the 1920s, Japan was producing its own designs to meet the needs of the Army, and by 1935 it had a large inventory that was technically sophisticated."

The pre-WWII fighter technology came from France, Britain and Germany. Post-WWII the US has been the supplier of choice.

Wicked Roger
10-23-13, 21:05
I see it differently. Most likely they had a major equipment failure and are currently operating on backup systems. It's taken time to diagnose the problem (s) and get the necessary parts / new equipment to replace it. Saying it's "scheduled preventative maintenance" is their way of saving face.Well it was faulty and very old equipment PJ. But this just goes to show how bad the infrastructure is and has been for years. And the government quibble about NAIA being the world's worst airport LOL.

http://cebudailynews.ph/news/story/21408/flights-cancelled

Soapy Smith
10-24-13, 03:48
The UK's wealth came from ingenuity. It was this that gave her the ability the conquer and rule the world.Not a little chauvinism underlying this claim. No doubt about the importance of British innovation in the industrial revolution, but we might also point out several lucky occurrences and conditions that preceded all this exuberance. The first of these was set off by a dissident German nailing a list of grievances to a cathedral door in Worms. The ensuing Protestant Reformation gave birth to a new tolerance for accumulating wealth, as surely it was a sign of God's blessing. Thus Protestant asceticism eventually displaced the mysticism surrounding Catholic medieval thinking, created enough stored-up wealth among some individuals to be able to inject investments in capital for earning still more wealth, and led ultimately toward an instrumental rationality that encouraged problem solving and thus innovation.

Second, there was the small matter of the battle of Boyne in 1690, where a musket ball fired from a Catholic musket (or maybe shrapnel from artillery) tore through the shoulder of the coat worn by William of Orange. Some have noted that, had it hit a few inches lower, England might have remained Catholic, France and Louis XIV would have dominated Europe, and the industrial revolution might have happened in France-or much later in some place other than Europe, like China.

Third, the British possessed-and discovered the usefulness of-coal, which gave them a long industrial leg up over other countries who had grown dependent on trees, which were rapidly being consumed.

Fourth, Britain's geographic location was more than a little fortunate. Ultimately it was sea-borne trade with "the New World" and with East Asia that advantaged Britain, because Britain was blessed with multiple seaports at a time in technological history when large, seafaring ships were creating a gap between those countries that possessed them (and navies to protect them) and those that didn't. Britain could never have thrived without these seafaring advantages, since they needed the population base in other parts of the world to consume their manufactured goods.

So I would say ingenuity and innovation rarely occur in a vacuum. This isn't from wikipedia, but you're welcome to look. I have no idea whether you'll find these ideas there.

Cunning Stunt
10-24-13, 04:27
Not a little chauvinism underlying this claim. No doubt about the importance of British innovation in the industrial revolution, but we might also point out several lucky occurrences and conditions that preceded all this exuberance.Plus we were quite good on the battlefield (admittedly with some divine help as you rightly point out). Firstly we saw off the pesky Spanish and have several times bettered the fiendish frogs (as well as saving their ungrateful bacon on more than one occasion). Only the home grown Yanks have, with the aid of the pesky Spanish and the fiendish frogs, bettered us in a meaningful war.

The builders, traders and administrators invariably followed the soldiers in our empire building role, a role we undertook and developed into hard but basically benevolent systems of governance. Quite unlike the pesky avaricious Spanish and the small minded fiendish frogs.

It also helps that most of the worlds great discoverers, innovators and inventors had their roots in those small insignificant islands. And still do.


This isn't from wikipedia, but you're welcome to look. I have no idea whether you'll find these ideas there. Yup, there are far too many wikapaedophiles hereabouts. Reckon that their website must have been running red hot yesterday!

Hutsori
10-24-13, 04:31
Not a little chauvinism underlying this claim.Just a little of course ;)

Other notable events were the Inter caetera and the following Treaty of Tordesillas that defined and delineated a zone of Spanish rights exclusive of Portugal. Other European states such as Britain, which would soon after split with Rome in 1534, surely would have looked at Spain's and Portugal's papal-granted "rights" with some envy and perhaps alarm that they would be left in an inferior state.

Anyway, you've brought up all excellent points and you're spot on that Britain's raise didn't occur in a vacuum. Of course coal isn't unique to Britain. What is interesting is despite how technologically advanced China was (navigational instruments, gun powder, artillery and rockets, etc) + its wealth (silk, porcelain, etc) it couldn't make the same leap to supremacy the UK did. A country can have all the advantages yet the sum is less than it parts.

GoodEnough
10-24-13, 04:40
I see it differently. Most likely they had a major equipment failure and are currently operating on backup systems. It's taken time to diagnose the problem (s) and get the necessary parts / new equipment to replace it. Saying it's "scheduled preventative maintenance" is their way of saving face.Just to add fuel to the fire, I was speaking last week to a very articulate young man who is stationed at the airport. He told me that the computers in the control tower pretty much date from the 1990's. Doesn't that add to our collective confidence in the safety of air travel here?

GE

Soapy Smith
10-24-13, 04:44
The builders, traders and administrators invariably followed the soldiers in our empire building role, a role we undertook and developed into hard but basically benevolent systems of governance. Quite unlike the pesky avaricious Spanish and the small minded fiendish frogs.A book getting a lot of attention these days is the 2012 book *Why Nations Fail* by Daron Acemoglu and James Robinson. They are from MIT and Harvard, but their message is fairly simple. They have examined how some colonial powers set up institutions designed to extract whatever they could, in part because they feared the natives and were unwilling to invest in their colonies. Others created institutions in their colonies that imitated those in the mother country, with the idea that the colony could some day be self-governing with the same kinds of institutions that seemed to work in the mother country. Spanish and Portuguese were the extractive institution exemplars, and Britain was the inclusive institution exemplar. In Acemoglu and Robinson's thesis, those colonies that had been set up with inclusive institutions have more often thrived as independent nations. Obviously there are exceptions, and there are cultural factors, ethnic, religious and linguistic divides, and geographic factors that may facilitate or inhibit adopting the foreign power's institutions. Consider Pakistan, for example, on the one hand, and Costa Rica, on the other.

GoodEnough
10-24-13, 05:16
Speaking of "Why Nations Fail," which is an interesting, thought-provoking extended hypothesis on the need for inclusive economic and political systems, I think Peter Wallace's column from today's Inquirer is directly relevant.

http://opinion.inquirer.net/63929/what-happened

GE

D Cups
10-24-13, 14:21
Thanks for this article, GE. As someone who plans on retiring in PI in 2022 (probably Negros or Cebu) I read it with great interest. I guess everything is relative. Obama is f*ing up the USA irretrievably: politically, socially, culturally, ethically and economically. I hope I can hang in here until I can retire comfortably. At least in the PI I'll get some bang for my buck. In the US more than one-third of my income goes to taxes and bullshit to support lazy people who don't work and get free money, food, housing, and now healthcare. We are witnessing the decline of the American Empire thanks to all this liberal horseshit.


Speaking of "Why Nations Fail," which is an interesting, thought-provoking extended hypothesis on the need for inclusive economic and political systems, I think Peter Wallace's column from today's Inquirer is directly relevant.

http://opinion.inquirer.net/63929/what-happened

GE

Gangles
10-24-13, 15:35
Gentlemen,

There are three primary drivers of poverty in the world:

Widespread endemic corruption in government.

Unstable government.

An ineffective land ownership and administration system.

In any country, where one or more of the three drivers exists, poverty will result. Hence poverty is a symptom of corruption, instability, and ineffective land administration.

Thus to alleviate and remove a nation from a state of poverty, it is necessary to have government which is stable, and not corrupt, together with a land ownership and administrative system which is functioning effectively.

Any other action, including aid programs and emergency relief only attacks the symptom, and not the cause.

The Role of Corruption in National Poverty.

When widespread endemic corruption exists in a country, two effects result.

The first is that very large quantities of money, which belong to the country as a whole, and hence to the people of that country, is stolen. This means that money which should be available for national development, health care, safety and security is missing.

The second is that decisions made by governments in the spending of national funds are not based on getting best value for money for the benefit of the nation, but rather are based on which supplier to government will pay the highest level of corrupt money to the decision maker (s). This means that illegal, or substandard products and services are delivered, which will not meet the needs of the people.

The Role of Unstable Government in National Poverty.

Employment, national growth and wealth creation result from investment of funds and resources into productive enterprises. Some investment is domestic in nature, but investment from off shore promises national development, jobs, and family security.

A national condition of unstable government means a condition of uncertainty for the investor. All investors and entrepreneurs operate in an environment of risk and uncertainty. When the risks and uncertainties are known, the investor can assign a factor for risk which will underpin the expected return on the investment. Where uncertainty is high, the risk factor becomes so high that the investor cannot get a commensurate rate of return on the investment, and hence looks elsewhere.

In the present age of world wide investment, every country is under continuous scrutiny as a potential opportunity for investment. Lack of investment reduces employment and development opportunity. In poorer nations, without a substantial source of development funds, attracting international investors provides an avenue for growth and employment creation.

The Role of A National Land Ownership and Administration System in National Poverty.

In all developed countries, a very large proportion of total national wealth lies in the value of property which is privately owned. In Australia, approximately 85% of the nation's wealth lies in the value of its land.

Ownership of land is a major component of individual personal wealth. Private ownership of property provides the owner with the opportunity to leverage the property to raise funds for other investment, and hence increase wealth. However this can only be done where ownership is assured through a reliable land administration and titling system. Where ownership is not certain, or there is a high risk of fraudulent title, banks will not lend money against the surety of a mortgage because they may not be able to foreclose in the event of failure to repay debt. Where ownership is not certain, buyers will not pay full price because of risk that they may not actually become the owner of the property.

Hence owners of land cannot use the inherent value in the land to improve their personal wealth.

The Philippines is experiencing all three drivers.

Australian aboriginals likewise.

So national poverty is entirely predictable.

Britain's wealth grew rapidly during the period of the industrial revolution because it introduced the Torrens Title system, based on ship ownership system. This guarantee of title by the government, meant that land owners could leverage wealth using title to property.

In my case, I was able to increase my wealth by over a million dollars, because I was able to borow money (mortgage) from banks to buy property which dramatically increased in value.

Generally not the case in the Phils.

G

GoodEnough
10-25-13, 06:33
Thanks for this article, GE. As someone who plans on retiring in PI in 2022 (probably Negros or Cebu) I read it with great interest. I guess everything is relative. Obama is f*ing up the USA irretrievably: politically, socially, culturally, ethically and economically. I hope I can hang in here until I can retire comfortably. At least in the PI I'll get some bang for my buck. In the US more than one-third of my income goes to taxes and bullshit to support lazy people who don't work and get free money, food, housing, and now healthcare. We are witnessing the decline of the American Empire thanks to all this liberal horseshit.You and I are at opposite ends of the political continuum. I would ascribe America's decline to am insufficiency of liberalism and a preponderance of overwheling greed and the corruption it brings as personified by the current version of the Republicam party which is solely responsible for the dissolution of a social compact. However, that's irrelevant to the Philippines where, though you will doubtless get more for your money, but will suffer the disadvantages of coping with permanent third world conditions.

GE

Red Kilt
10-25-13, 11:25
As someone who plans on retiring in PI in 2022 (probably Negros or Cebu) I read it with great interest.I certainly would never have stayed here as long as I have if I did not have the benefit of regular paid employment with a foreign salary. I am assuming that D Cups' decision to re-locate to Cebu or Negros will be based on additional criteria to the apparent availability of compliant females (at least I hope so).

However, unless one has a heap of other things to occupy the brain besides hanging out with assorted filipinas I can attest (and I am sure GE agrees) , that the 3rd world factors that Gangles details in his post will very quickly addle your brain.

My safety valve is escaping to adjacent SE Asian countries (and Australia) for short bursts of recuperation.

The option to do that at frequent intervals needs to be factored in to any plans for retirement / relocation.

Wicked Roger
10-25-13, 13:39
However, unless one has a heap of other things to occupy the brain besides hanging out with assorted filipinas I can attest (and I am sure GE agrees) , that the 3rd world factors that Gangles details in his post will very quickly addle your brain.

My safety valve is escaping to adjacent SE Asian countries (and Australia) for short bursts of recuperation.

The option to do that at frequent intervals needs to be factored in to any plans for retirement / relocation.That's is my safety valve also RK as we well some part time work for my old company so I can go overseas expenses paid and meet people for a long chat and discussion. Only when I meet some of the guys on the board in the Philippines do I get the same intellectual discussions as otherwise with the pinays the attention span can be short and annoying.

D Cups
10-25-13, 13:57
Insufficient liberalism? You must be on the Obama free ride payroll! Curious as to your nationality, GE. I am not a proponent of bipartisanship and have frequently voted independent but to categorize all republicans as greedy and "solely responsible for the dissolution of a social compact" is just plain wrong. You want socialism? Go to Vietnam and see how THAT works.


You and I are at opposite ends of the political continuum. I would ascribe America's decline to am insufficiency of liberalism and a preponderance of overwheling greed and the corruption it brings as personified by the current version of the Republicam party which is solely responsible for the dissolution of a social compact. However, that's irrelevant to the Philippines where, though you will doubtless get more for your money, but will suffer the disadvantages of coping with permanent third world conditions.

GE

D Cups
10-25-13, 14:25
I am assuming that D Cups' decision to re-locate to Cebu or Negros will be based on additional criteria to the apparent availability of compliant females (at least I hope so)

My safety valve is escaping to adjacent SE Asian countries.Your assumption is correct, RK, and I will no doubt travel a bit, too. As a retired professor of management I could probably guest lecture at Silliman or elsewhere if I wanted. I look forward to writing some non-academic pieces and perhaps get involved in the local community. As a musician-guitarist-singer I mostly want to spend a lot of time jamming with friends and perhaps recording. 70s classic rock with a little bit of jazz, folk and latin. Maybe find one or two pretty pinay singers, buy them some bolt-ons and call us J. R. And the D Cups. With no aspirations of touring. Just local fun. Hell, I might even raise a family if I can control my propensity for variety. Well, that's all nine years from now and a lot of planning.

X Man
10-25-13, 14:54
What is the "free ride payroll"?

"Go to Vietnam". What does that mean, and why are you recommending it?

Why are you asking GE for nationality? Shouldn't that be pm? D cup. Are you a Texan?

X Man.


Insufficient liberalism? You must be on the Obama free ride payroll! Curious as to your nationality, GE. I am not a proponent of bipartisanship and have frequently voted independent but to categorize all republicans as greedy and "solely responsible for the dissolution of a social compact" is just plain wrong. You want socialism? Go to Vietnam and see how THAT works.

D Cups
10-25-13, 15:18
What is the "free ride payroll"? People who are on the government dole.

"Go to Vietnam". What does that mean, and why are you recommending it? It's socialism. No, I am not recommending it.

Why are you asking GE for nationality? Curious. Shouldn't that be pm? Perhaps. D cup. Are you a Texan? No.

X Man.Any other questions, X?

GoodEnough
10-26-13, 00:25
You want socialism? Go to Vietnam and see how THAT works.Or, I could go to Sweden, where it works very well. This is really my last comment on US politics as there's no point in having an endless debate about what, in the end, comes down to differences in values. Thanks to my buddy RK for raising the nationality issue. Where I'm from is irrelevant.

I am curious about how others would characterize the economic system here. My vote would be crony capitalism, since the Philippines doesn't have a real free market, but a small oligarchy that controls the economy.

GE

Slippery
10-26-13, 02:34
What economic system? Indeed an oligarchy has the economic and political control of this country. Ask any Filipino of any achievements their nation has made on its own in the last 30 years and they'll scratch their head and get a blank look on their face as I am doing now. Achievements in medicine? Ummmmm none. Technology? Nothing. Education? Abyssmal. But singing, dancing, boxing and cock fighting are celebrated along with trying to screw the foreigner. Oh, I forgot about basketball. Hahahaha any good American high school basketball team could beat any good Filipino pro team 5 days a week.

Even making a phone call can be an endeavor and try ordering food for delivery, even in Tagalog. You must repeat, repeat and repeat and then they call you back and repeat the order again. Even North frigg'and Korea has put together a few missiles and shot them off. The closest thing you'll see to that in the Philippines is around the corner on New Year's Day. Done venting.

Tally Wacker
10-26-13, 04:25
Funny stuff! I like this one but I think you have it in reverse order haha."But singing, dancing, boxing and cock fighting are celebrated along with trying to screw the foreigner."


What economic system? Indeed an oligarchy has the economic and political control of this country. Ask any Filipino of any achievements their nation has made on its own in the last 30 years and they'll scratch their head and get a blank look on their face as I am doing now. Achievements in medicine? Ummmmm none. Technology? Nothing. Education? Abyssmal. But singing, dancing, boxing and cock fighting are celebrated along with trying to screw the foreigner. Oh, I forgot about basketball. Hahahaha any good American high school basketball team could beat any good Filipino pro team 5 days a week.

Even making a phone call can be an endeavor and try ordering food for delivery, even in Tagalog. You must repeat, repeat and repeat and then they call you back and repeat the order again. Even North frigg'and Korea has put together a few missiles and shot them off. The closest thing you'll see to that in the Philippines is around the corner on New Year's Day. Done venting.

GoodEnough
10-26-13, 06:00
Oh well, at least the country has a first class airport!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/10387872/Is-Manila-the-worlds-worst-airport.html

Hutsori
10-26-13, 07:09
I am curious about how others would characterize the economic system here.It's a kleptocracy.

Asian Rain
10-26-13, 07:46
I am curious about how others would characterize the economic system here.I personally love the imperfections of the Philippines and find this country completely capable of reliably producing the one product that I truly appreciate. See example attached. Enjoy the Philippines. It's more fun here, right? AsianRain

D Cups
10-26-13, 14:09
Or, I could go to Sweden, where it works very well. This is really my last comment on US politics as there's no point in having an endless debate about what, in the end, comes down to differences in values. Thanks to my buddy RK for raising the nationality issue. Where I'm from is irrelevant.

I am curious about how others would characterize the economic system here. My vote would be crony capitalism, since the Philippines doesn't have a real free market, but a small oligarchy that controls the economy.

GEPoints well taken, GE. Peace. The Philippine economy (and politics for that matter) have changed little since I lived there in the early 80s.

Wicked Roger
10-26-13, 17:10
Points well taken, GE. Peace. The Philippine economy (and politics for that matter) have changed little since I lived there in the early 80s.DC,

It has gone backwards of you read the relevant data and what the links say.

AR we like those imperfections as we can afford to live in the country and enjoy it, but many cannot and the recent 'scandals' regarding the pork barrel fund are clearly showing how the controlling families are basically greedy and will never give up control. Same as Middle East but there is a lot of cash for locals in most countries.

The economy is both an oligarchy (where families control everything) but a kleptocracy (where there is rampant greed and corruption). Basically it is stuffed and if it was not so sad it would be funny (to quote a Sky News presenter when commenting on the HK tourist deaths a few years ao that really improved tourism).

GoodEnough
10-27-13, 03:09
DC,

It has gone backwards of you read the relevant data and what the links say.It's not actually regressing. It's just moving forward at a pace that is, and will likely remain significantly slower than other countries in the region. The corruption, inefficiency amd general ineptitude of the government, and it's bland indifference to meaningful development are sad, given the resource potential of the country, but nothing is going to change anytime soon.

After having spent more than a decade here, I've finally come to realize that the reason for the general dystopian perspective is that my perceptions have been skewed. I think I made the tacit (erroneous) assumption that somehow the general well being of the country's citizens was a driving force of governance. However, if one assumes that the real purpose of governamce here is to augment and sustain systems that perpetuate the continued aggrandizement of the small group that owns most of the resources, then it's possible to conclude that the government works extremely well; that it's meeting the objective of serving the interests of those whom is was designed to serve. The geographical characteristics of the country-thousands of islands linked by poor imfrastructure and even worse communications-facilitates the lack of socio-political cohesion so important to maintaining the status quo.

GE

Capistrano
10-27-13, 07:07
Generally I live here in the Philippines without major complaint and I have learnt to adapt to the idiosyncrasies of Philippines drivers, customer service, cultural differences, Filipina "have you had lunch" texts and many other things. But one thing that does frustrate and despair me is the seeming inability in the Philippines to plan, integrate and implement development plans, whether it be energy generation (overcoming the chronic shortage) , power station shut downs (maintenance during peak usage periods) , highway development, and other examples. Here is another (in) glorious example today.

This morning's newspapers announced that passengers travelling in and out of Manila's Ninoy airport are "advised to brace for delays on October 23 as the aviation authority downgrades the airport's operating capacity from 42 to 22 landings and take-offs per hour to give way to maintenance work on its radar system". This was announced by the Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines yesterday."The maintenance work will take place starting 1am on October 23 and will last until 7am on October 24th". The term "delays" is a wonderful euphemism for cancellations..Kongking I'm sorry for that, although there has been lapses in many areas. It would be nice to know that this problems that you have mentioned which I definitely agree occurs, the Philippine government IMO has been facing it and never hiding it. Like what you said about the Airport, RP are doing the best just to ensure safety even it will be a shame across other countries. I'm thanking you for these comment because it will serve as a wake-up call for the authorities. BTW, RP is a third world country and there is a lot of improvements to be done in order to meet expectations around the world.

Asian Rain
10-27-13, 07:36
we can afford to live in the country and enjoy it, but many cannot and the recent 'scandals' regarding the pork barrel fund are clearly showing how the controlling families are basically greedy and will never give up control.True. I have eyes too and can see what's going on. Now any of the sexpats here going to do anything tangible about these unjust conditions besides produce erudite commentary directed to other sexpats? Most of the decade-long veterans here seem to have done very well themselves off the system. I see references to long-drawn expat salaries, hefty dividends from property investment, etc, so taking the moral high ground against the inept and greedy locals rings a bit hollow. Any solutions? AR

Hutsori
10-27-13, 09:48
Those of you interested in the goings on in the West Philippine Sea may find this report interesting, http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/?ref=world

Red Kilt
10-27-13, 15:04
True. I have eyes too and can see what's going on. Now any of the sexpats here going to do anything tangible about these unjust conditions besides produce erudite commentary directed to other sexpats? Most of the decade-long veterans here seem to have done very well themselves off the system. I see references to long-drawn expat salaries, hefty dividends from property investment, etc, so taking the moral high ground against the inept and greedy locals rings a bit hollow. Any solutions? ARI am not sure who you were targeting with your comment AR but I know several guys including myself who support the spouse's extended families.

I also am helping 4 "poorest of the poor" kids through a Foundation to attend Night High School; each of the 4 kids are now in tertiary studies.

All it takes is 12, 000 php per year (or 3000 per student)

A very meagre offering I know but I do feel I am making a difference to some peoples' lives.

I'm not boasting; Just saying.

GoodEnough
10-27-13, 15:24
True. I have eyes too and can see what's going on. Now any of the sexpats here going to do anything tangible about these unjust conditions besides produce erudite commentary directed to other sexpats? Most of the decade-long veterans here seem to have done very well themselves off the system. I see references to long-drawn expat salaries, hefty dividends from property investment, etc, so taking the moral high ground against the inept and greedy locals rings a bit hollow. Any solutions? ARA fair enough comment AR, and you're correct in that most of us have done well. However, I'm not taking the moral high ground. How could I when the country from which I come has allowed it's political system to become corrupt, dysfunctional and oblivious to anything but narrow ideology? No better, and perhaps, on the moral continuum worse than here? My occasional discussions of the subject are motivated more by frustration than moral indignation. Knowing RK pretty well, I believe that his motivations are much the same.

As to the "sexpat" characterization, I'd have to reject that as well, if by it you mean someone whose primary motivation in living here is the ready availability of sex. I've been an expatriate for the better part of 3 decades, which means I've lived in the chocolate factory way too long to be fascinated by, or even attracted to the candy. Again, most of the longer-term expats I know, be it here, in Thailand, throughout Africa and other places have much the same perspective. I'm sure that most of the guys reading this board would find my life fairly dull.

Many if not most of us do what we can to help those we're capable of helping. That is, we do what we can to make life a bit better for a few.

ISG and other, less sexually oriented forums may represent a relatively safe way of venting the frustration of living in a place with huge potential that will never be realized.

GE

Soapy Smith
10-28-13, 06:05
Those of you interested in the goings on in the West Philippine Sea may find this report interesting,

http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/?ref=worldThanks for sharing this H. One might hope that Americans were cognizant of the tremendous shift in influence in the world toward East Asia. Unfortunately, too many Americans are blindly obsessed with their country's "exceptionalism" and have too little worldly awareness to understand the dynamics presented in this story. I share GE's concern about the morass of contemporary American political life. I sense that many want to return to a set of conditions 30 years ago when, as it seemed, their country didn't take any crap from anybody. Their shorthand response is to blame Obama, as though he alone has created these huge changes in the world. It is unclear whether they are simply ignorant about history and the changes that surround them or actively cultivating denial about them. Nuff said; otherwise I would need to move this to the U.S. politics thread.

Pete Benetar
10-28-13, 17:10
Wallace's commentary concludes with:

<<What went wrong? In a word, politicians. The corruption and crony capture under Marcos started it all. The restrictive Constitution under Cory changed the people but kept the capture of the economy by too few.

Comical the preponderant liberal bent of postings here when reality is moderate politicians of both wings are captured in USA, not so unlike what Wallace writes of the PI. How many criminal indictments has the Obama administration served in the six years he's been in office following the trillions of dollars stolen and redistributed upwards? How many USD has he clawed back from the scores of billionairres who's wealth grew feverishly while average incomes dropped? Nada. Frontline's expose on Obama's DOJ esp criminal div point man Lanny Breuer illustrates to all but the delusional the capture in the US, even under the liberal's precious Democratic banner.

By comparison, the last 30 years in the USA not so different (save the printing press we call reserve currency allowing elites to narcotize the masses, that petulant possibly rebellious and growing 47%). Our 17 trillion in debt has bought us effective governance, though most nations such as the PI do not have the luxury our central bank has.

Wicked Roger
10-28-13, 19:14
This article made me chuckle and really there is little hope for change when the barangay elections are rife with vote buying etc.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/516211/votes-bought-for-p1k-each

Capistrano
10-30-13, 05:10
This article made me chuckle and really there is little hope for change when the barangay elections are rife with vote buying etc.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/516211/votes-bought-for-p1k-eachDespite of all the efforts made by the government to stop vote buying, I think this will not be eradicated. As long as their's a voter that accepts the money there will still be a candidate that will give or buy their vote. The Filipinos need to open their eyes, it was just a simple give and take meaning the candidate will give them but will take more than what they give.

Just my opinion.

Econo Tech
11-05-13, 03:01
For some interesting stuff.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tv/tvshows/get_real/children-bearing-children/873876.html

I was amazed that since 2000, the number of childhood pregnancies went up. What went wrong?

Did the politicians make it ok for getting pregnant and possibly encouraged it?

Possibly as a way to keep the poor as poor, and my friends in PH insist that the rise has to do with the uncontrolled migration of people to

In a far away country, a distant relative of ours was tasked to coming up with educational programs for estate workers, and my 'uncle' thought of some good high-tech programs. When the minister found out the course content, my uncle was scolded by the minister with the exact following words:

"Don't teach these bastards good stuff. Later they will question me and throw me out of power. Teach them stuff like motorcycle repair, car repair, basic electrical stuff. That's enough. Teach them IT and stuff, they will take over my job."

Well, I see the same in PH.

Red Kilt
11-05-13, 04:38
Despite of all the efforts made by the government to stop vote buying, I think this will not be eradicated. As long as their's a voter that accepts the money there will still be a candidate that will give or buy their vote. The Filipinos need to open their eyes, it was just a simple give and take meaning the candidate will give them but will take more than what they give.Politicians steal a lot of the "pork barrel" but they also dispense aid as needed.

You have to spend time in the provinces and in the barangays to realize that very small amounts of money make a huge difference to many families' lives, and sometimes the money they give saves lives, even if it is still a form of 'delayed vote-buying".

Just last week I heard about a local congressman in Luzon who gave a family 500 pesos to buy some urgently needed medicine for a new baby, and now that pollie will be forever supported by that grateful family. We all know how people go cap in hand to local members to seek cash for funerals, medicines and for paying bills to get family members out of hospital etc.

I am not advocating the continuation of this system but with no government-regulated safety nets these desperately poor people have no other options but to rely on handouts when crises strike. Most of the time they get by with virtually nothing, surviving on their subsistence farming activity.

The whole system needs changing, but with such mind-boggling numbers of poor people in barangays all over the Philippines, it cannot be easily changed nor can it be done quickly.

GoodEnough
11-05-13, 08:27
Politicians steal a lot of the "pork barrel" but they also dispense aid as needed.

You have to spend time in the provinces and in the barangays to realize that very small amounts of money make a huge difference to many families' lives, and sometimes the money they give saves lives, even if it is still a form of 'delayed vote-buying".

Just last week I heard about a local congressman in Luzon who gave a family 500 pesos to buy some urgently needed medicine for a new baby, and now that pollie will be forever supported by that grateful family. We all know how people go cap in hand to local members to seek cash for funerals, medicines and for paying bills to get family members out of hospital etc.

I am not advocating the continuation of this system but with no government-regulated safety nets these desperately poor people have no other options but to rely on handouts when crises strike. Most of the time they get by with virtually nothing, surviving on their subsistence farming activity.

The whole system needs changing, but with such mind-boggling numbers of poor people in barangays all over the Philippines, it cannot be easily changed nor can it be done quickly.RK's point is well taken; the pervasiveness of grinding poverty in most barangays is characteristic of the entire country, particularly outside of the larger cities. Spending time in Manila, Cebu, Angeles or Davao doesn't really yield an accurate impression of how many Filipinos live.

There's an article in today's Philippine Inquirer citing a recent World Bank study that indicates the country must create approximately 10 million new jobs every year. I doubt that more than 2 million are actually created, so, sad to say, the current level of poverty will likely remain, or perhaps even grow.

However, the current, corrupt system of doling out hand-outs by individual politicians, using taxpayer funds to do so, can be changed with sufficient political vision (an oxymoron here I know) and by capacitating existing agencies to do what they were created to do: by making DPWH responsible for the maintenance of all national roads, for example, or by empowering the Department of Social Welfare to do the job that it's mandated to do. This wouldn't really take long if the political class here had any interest in effecting meaningful change.

The fact is, this will never happen, as politicians relish the feudalism that indentures poorer voters, amd with 1. 9 million new Filipinos being born every year, the stock of poor Filipinos is constantly replenished.

GE

Hutsori
11-05-13, 08:30
The latest brouhaha.

http://sowhatsnews.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/jinggoy-estrada-arrested-after-trying-to-smuggle-money-inside-his-breast-to-us/

Yeah, I know.

Cbea20
11-05-13, 10:40
Dude, the article is satire. Read the comments.


The latest brouhaha.

http://sowhatsnews.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/jinggoy-estrada-arrested-after-trying-to-smuggle-money-inside-his-breast-to-us/

Yeah, I know.

Hutsori
11-05-13, 11:52
Dude, the article is satire. Read the comments.Evidently the "Yeah, I know" was too subtle for you, duuuuuude.

Soapy Smith
11-06-13, 04:32
However, the current, corrupt system of doling out hand-outs by individual politicians, using taxpayer funds to do so, can be changed with sufficient political vision (an oxymoron here I know) and by capacitating existing agencies to do what they were created to do: by making DPWH responsible for the maintenance of all national roads, for example, or by empowering the Department of Social Welfare to do the job that it's mandated to do. This wouldn't really take long if the political class here had any interest in effecting meaningful change.I think there may still be some heavy lifting to do with the agencies, since the pork barrel process also needed players in national agencies and / or in local government units as active participants who passed the money to bogus NGOs. Might there be ways to capacitate agency leaders and employees so they know they will be held accountable for results? Possibly: there are a few genuine role models. But as things stand now, some agency personnel actively enable-and benefit from-the corruption cultivated by politicians and the oligarchic structures that support them. Real institutional change is extremely difficult.

GoodEnough
11-06-13, 09:16
I think there may still be some heavy lifting to do with the agencies, since the pork barrel process also needed players in national agencies and / or in local government units as active participants who passed the money to bogus NGOs. Might there be ways to capacitate agency leaders and employees so they know they will be held accountable for results? Possibly: there are a few genuine role models. But as things stand now, some agency personnel actively enable-and benefit from-the corruption cultivated by politicians and the oligarchic structures that support them. Real institutional change is extremely difficult.I agree, and without enduring, strong commitment from the top, real organizational change is impossible. However, it is feasible here, at least at the provincial level of the agencies; I've seen it happen.

One of the surest indicators that P-Noys eloquence in denouncing corruption is largely empty rhetoric is that there's been very little in the way of sustained pushes from the top of the food chain to the agencies. In fact, most of the pressure that I've seen is coming through bilateral aid agencies such as AusAid (or whatever its new name is) and USAID. So Skip is likely correct, and it ain't going to happen any time soon, at least not nationally.

I was reflecting on the difficulties of transmuting dysfunctional fourth world facilities and organizations just today, when flying into Manila from Davao. The PAL flight was flawless, leaving and arriving on time. And then we landed in the world's worst airport which lived down to its reputation once again. First, we taxied to a "remote gate," which the captain assured us was as much a surprise to him as it was to us. Then, we waited for 10-15 minutes in the sweltering plane while the so-called airport managers scrambled to find a bus. Finally a small bus, with seating for maybe 25 people showed up. About 50 of us we're crammed inside for the jolting trip to the terminal. The other two thirds of the passangers were left on the plane.

Once outside the terminal, as is my regular practice, I took a coupon taxi to Makati. The clapped out junker of a taxi was probably last maintained circa 1990. Since there are no express roads to and from the airport, we immediately became part of the interminable traffic jam immediately outside the airport interior. What a stark contrast to the clean taxi and perfect roads I encountered in Bangkok a couple of weeks ago.

GE

GoodEnough
11-12-13, 10:50
http://m.inquirer.net/opinion/

Habito is a well respected Economist and his column in today's Philoppine.

Inquirer is with reading.

Wjmpsr
11-12-13, 12:55
While in the USA in August I wanted to get an ITIN number (individual Taxpayer I'd Number) for my wife. I went to the IRS office where I stood in line for 2 hours. The office manager came out and announced that they would be closing for lunch and we could stay in line, come back in an hour or come back the next day. I left and then went to two IRS acceptance agents who per the IRS web site are authorized to accept the required docs. They both declined to do this as the IRS has changed procedures.

I ended up sending the applications, my wife's Philippine Passport and our marriage license to the irs. They promptly issued the number, but I have no idea if / when I will get her passport back.

I no longer complain about inefficiencies here in the Philippines.

Escort Fan
11-12-13, 18:13
(.) Since there are no express roads to and from the airport, we immediately became part of the interminable traffic jam immediately outside the airport interior. What a stark contrast to the clean taxi and perfect roads I encountered in Bangkok a couple of weeks ago.

GEThe SkyWay is closed? Normally it helps to go to Makati.

GoodEnough
11-12-13, 22:13
The SkyWay is closed? Normally it helps to go to Makati.The Skyway is open, but it's not directly accessible to the airport. You've got to battle snarled traffic for 10-15 minutes to get on it.

Slippery
11-13-13, 01:36
The Skyway is open, but it's not directly accessible to the airport. You've got to battle snarled traffic for 10-15 minutes to get on it.Must've been a good day.

GoodEnough
11-16-13, 01:04
A sad, sad story of death by incompetence. I wonder how many more times similar stories will be repeated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/16/world/asia/dead-of-a-failed-relief-effort-as-much-as-typhoons-winds.html?pagewanted=2&smid=fb-nytimes

GE

WhatsUrName
12-26-13, 02:49
Fairly interesting video documentary about the socio-economic strata in the Philippines. Compares the lifestyle of an upwardly mobile Makati family with that of a dirt poor family from the slums of Manila. The video has a particular focus on the family planning, population, and maternity aspects of life in the Phils.

This is a must see for some of you preggo lovers. LOL.

FYI, Tondo isn't far at all from the Malate, just a little to the north. Please note, however, that Tondo is not a place for Westerners.

Enjoy and Merry Christmas, Gentlemen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiyMPeJUFlM

Slippery
12-26-13, 04:52
Thanks for the link. Well worth watching. Merry Christmas.

FreebieFan
12-26-13, 07:01
Fairly interesting video documentary about the socio-economic strata in the Philippines. Compares the lifestyle of an upwardly mobile Makati family with that of a dirt poor family from the slums of Manila. The video has a particular focus on the family planning, population, and maternity aspects of life in the Phils.

This is a must see for some of you preggo lovers. LOL.

FYI, Tondo isn't far at all from the Malate, just a little to the north. Please note, however, that Tondo is not a place for Westerners.

Enjoy and Merry Christmas, Gentlemen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiyMPeJUFlM'

Outstanding video. There was some loudmouth do nothing senator (sotto?) who proudly proclaimed that to balance the budget he had eliminated P332 million that was destined for condom distribution and for sex and reproductive health education.

I'm sure the church gave him a few sherrys for that noble and sterling effort.

He should be made to watch this 24 hours a day and then see if he changes his priveledged and oh so moral stance.

WhatsUrName
12-31-13, 03:28
I wanted to issue a follow-up to my prior Christmas day link to the BBC documentary "The Definitions of Lower, Middle, and Upper Classes in the Philippines".

The January 2014 issue of National Geographic contains an excellent 26 page spread entitled "Far from Home". It's a story with full color pictures about the lives of guest workers living overseas, primarily in oil-rich countries. The NG story focuses on Teresa, an OFW with four children from the Philippines, and her life in Dubai. A lot of the article focuses on the lives of Filipino OFWs in Dubai, and the tragic toll that being so far from home takes on the lives of the average pinoy family.

It's a pretty sad story. Enough to make you want to cry. But do go and check it out.

Happy New Year, Gentlemen.

WhatsUrName
01-27-14, 13:54
I was doing some economics reading over this past weekend. In particular, I was thinking about Fed QE policy, China's latest economic data, and whether I should buy some gold. I found this article on Forbes that discusses several topics about the Philippine economy, consumer behavior, etc. Thought some of you may be interested :

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2013/11/21/heres-why-the-philippines-economic-miracle-is-really-a-bubble-in-disguise/

Soapy Smith
01-28-14, 18:04
I was doing some economics reading over this past weekend. In particular, I was thinking about Fed QE policy, China's latest economic data, and whether I should buy some gold. I found this article on Forbes that discusses several topics about the Philippine economy, consumer behavior, etc. Thought some of you may be interested :

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2013/11/21/heres-why-the-philippines-economic-miracle-is-really-a-bubble-in-disguise/Thoughtful stuff WUN. Thanks for posting it.

Pete Benetar
01-29-14, 07:12
I was thinking about Fed QE policy, China's latest economic data, and whether I should buy some gold.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2013/11/21/heres-why-the-philippines-economic-miracle-is-really-a-bubble-in-disguise/I use surrogates myself for precious commodities though hard bullion, diamonds etc in moderation is ideal (maybe about 5% max of a portfolio unless of course you are a doomsdayer) is a good hedge.

Not so much as a vocation. Compressor mining along the eastern isles in the PH featured on PBS last night. 14 year olds with some serious chutzpa for the princely sum of about 200 php/day.

http://peteralanlloyd.com/other-writing-projects/a-deadly-trade-underwater-gold-mining-in-the-philippines/

Member #4244
01-29-14, 07:46
I wanted to issue a follow-up to my prior Christmas day link to the BBC documentary "The Definitions of Lower, Middle, and Upper Classes in the Philippines".

The January 2014 issue of National Geographic contains an excellent 26 page spread entitled "Far from Home". It's a story with full color pictures about the lives of guest workers living overseas, primarily in oil-rich countries. The NG story focuses on Teresa, an OFW with four children from the Philippines, and her life in Dubai. A lot of the article focuses on the lives of Filipino OFWs in Dubai, and the tragic toll that being so far from home takes on the lives of the average pinoy family.

It's a pretty sad story. Enough to make you want to cry. But do go and check it out.

Happy New Year, Gentlemen.I read this as well, incredible journalism. It should be a reminder to those of us with privileges that seem common in our surroundings that most of the world lives a completely distinct life from our own.

Sam 14
04-26-14, 18:13
I couldn't figure out how to transfer Sockers post: "The new Democratic Party is the feminist / Gay Party and they have turn reality upside down to accommodate their agenda. Almost all of my problems come from my own Democratic Party hence adios you motherfuckers!"

Ok I'll bite, and sorry guys. I'll probably be wishing I could delete this. I'll just assume you were referring to the US since it was about Hillary Clinton. I'm not a Democrat and I'm not trying to defend them but I'm afraid it's not as simple as a Democratic or a Republican thing. These candidates are vetted, approved and selected years before the election. Money pours in from around the globe to finance these campaigns.

Mathematicians in the Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich got data on who owns the 43, 000 biggest trans national companies and put together an extremely accurate stake holder analysis of stock traded on markets of the world. They found these companies were all interlocking. The same directors were migration from one company to another. So it's not 10 separate mega banks, they're really just one big conglomerate. These mathematicians call this the "super entity". These institutions are the ones that own the central banks of the world. These banks aren't public, they're private entities for example the US Federal Reserve. So it's this mega entity that's owning the shares of all the others and are at the very apex of the international financial system. These are the ones selecting your candidates for you.

And they've also bought up the media in the United States. And there's interlocking boards of directors. So now the media ownership is down to 5, but they're all inter connected too. So if you have something uncomplimentary to say about how the financial system is being run, or anything else important, it's not going to get in the main stream media.

So it's not the Democrats. My own personal belief is it's become a system of systemic evil and a culture of narcissism. I would say it's not just destructiveness we're going towards, we've been on that path for a long time. It's becoming insane, and I don't just mean the US. Let the air, soil and water be poisoned, let the forests die, let the seas be emptied of life, let one useless war after another be waged, let masses dive into extreme poverty and left without jobs. While the elites drunk on power accumulate vast fortunes through exploitation, speculation, fraud, and theft. That's well beyond the Democratic party my friend.

Socker
04-26-14, 19:37
I couldn't figure out how to transfer Sockers post: "The new Democratic Party is the feminist / Gay Party and they have turn reality upside down to accommodate their agenda. Almost all of my problems come from my own Democratic Party hence adios you motherfuckers!"

Ok I'll bite, and sorry guys. I'll probably be wishing I could delete this. I'll just assume you were referring to the US since it was about Hillary Clinton. I'm not a Democrat and I'm not trying to defend them but I'm afraid it's not as simple as a Democratic or a Republican thing. These candidates are vetted, approved and selected years before the election. Money pours in from around the globe to finance these campaigns.

Mathematicians in the Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich got data on who owns the 43, 000 biggest trans national companies and put together an extremely accurate stake holder analysis of stock traded on markets of the world. They found these companies were all interlocking. The same directors were migration from one company to another. So it's not 10 separate mega banks, they're really just one big conglomerate. These mathematicians call this the "super entity". These institutions are the ones that own the central banks of the world. These banks aren't public, they're private entities for example the US Federal Reserve. So it's this mega entity that's owning the shares of all the others and are at the very apex of the international financial system. These are the ones selecting your candidates for you.

And they've also bought up the media in the United States. And there's interlocking boards of directors. So now the media ownership is down to 5, but they're all inter connected too. So if you have something uncomplimentary to say about how the financial system is being run, or anything else important, it's not going to get in the main stream media.

So it's not the Democrats. My own personal belief is it's become a system of systemic evil and a culture of narcissism. I would say it's not just destructiveness we're going towards, we've been on that path for a long time. It's becoming insane, and I don't just mean the US. Let the air, soil and water be poisoned, let the forests die, let the seas be emptied of life, let one useless war after another be waged, let masses dive into extreme poverty and left without jobs. While the elites drunk on power accumulate vast fortunes through exploitation, speculation, fraud, and theft. That's well beyond the Democratic party my friend.Thanks for moving my short rant issue in the right forum. You are obviously a well educated guy like most mongers on these type of boards and you put some of my lightening in very eloquent sentences. This I struggle and fail in doing and my ability to analyze is is always going to be in a primitive form. I know and understand how the really really big players pull the strings and such, but there still needs to be an election and right now HC is leading all others in public support.

For me she is an in the box thinker, she goes which ever way the political winds are blowing, to me she has no originality. She did well as a first lady but I fail to see what she has done since. In my meat and potato world I see the uptight pissed off feminist gaining more and more traction. I see realities being twisted in order for there to be political correctness across the board. If women can't be plumbers or bridge builders how can they be policemen w / guns on their belts? All of these jobs require physical strength but one of these jobs can be adjusted to fit a women's (lesser) abilities, hence a blur in reality. This is one small example of manipulating reality to accommodate the weaker sex. I could give many more examples of how dangerous the push for equality has become, nature's demands being ignored and replaced w / political correctness, gender balancing because you see, women vote.

The western male starting in Europe and creeping westward are giving the keys to the car to women because democracy is about equality and women have been taking more than they should. IMO.

Where I have lived for 62 years and have closely watched and enjoyed life now has become a radical Democratic center. To pay for all the new equality and incompetent social programs the police force has become a revenue source. The city is full of police cars (now) ticketing everything and everyone they can. The police by the way earn about $90, 000 per yr and can retire after around 20 years w / 90% of the salaries. The salary increases for them were encouraged by our NEW RADICAL Democratic Party. You see the Dems can take union contributions and then when elected negotiate union pay and benefits. So I now live in a virtual socialist police state and have to hope I don't make one mistake because there will be someone watching me. This is the biggest reason I'm not a demo any longer.

Some guys think the pressure on AC is coming from the religious right. In California you never hear of the religious right because they are at their weakest state in my lifetime. They have zero influence from my POV.

So as a person I have no problem w / Hilary C but as a politician she is not a very good one. The other woman who is being asked if she's running for pres is Elizabeth Warren who from the surface looks a lot better then HC. For me I have a problem w / women and politics, I love all people but I have been repressed by women all my life. If in this hobby if you feel guilty or think you're doing something wrong then you too have been repressed and brainwashed. So in short that's my primitive opinion and it's not the opinion I want to have in my latter years. I am truly surprised at direction things are going and don't see any relief in the near future. Eventually these PC practices will accumulate and it will collapse on itself.

Soooooo

I've had enouGH, it's getting really hard to breathe. Somebody or some country will shuffle the deck eventually, maybe sooner then we think.

Enjoy the freedoms we have, enjoy our beautiful earth, we are the lucky ones. Best

Socker
04-26-14, 19:57
GE, please stop provoking the Socker and his ilk. We don't know what his 'problems' are, but he's obviously got some big ones. I'm the son of a UAW worker, and proud of my father. Worked his assoff. The unions have lots of flaws, so does Hillary, so do I, so does Socker. So does GE, I've met the cranky old fart. LOL.

How much do you weigh Socker?I'm not begrudging unions bro but both sides of the issue can get ridiculous. I fully understand and have no problem w / unions, lawyers, etc.

I'm just saying I have gotten off the bus because the bus stinks and all I get is grief from it.

I can see a future no monger wants or should have to endure. My money says it's coming and the mongers will run and hide like cockroaches.

You can thank the politically correct Democrats when and if this happens. You could thank them like right now if anyone want to, The IJM.

Peace

Socker
04-27-14, 05:39
This will be the last of it for me. I have admitted that I am reluctantly scrambling off the boat like a rat. I have no reason to dislike the political party I grew up in except that they have abandoned their original ideals. In the last 15/20 years the Dems have become the best underhanded liars in politics. Political correctness comes from the Democratic Party, and ONLY the Democratic Party. GE are you a politically correct monger? Do you think the ladies working in the bars are not willing prostitutes. The politically correct term for them would be human trafficked victims. Are you okay w / this euphemistic NEW (!) terminology? Is this what you buy? I think you do know who the real losers will be in the Philippines in this new fantasy world that's growing out of the USA.

I have been watching society for 4 + decades so I am very familiar w / human nature and American propaganda. Granted I don't have a college education to bring forth my observations more concisely or properly written, nonetheless I speak the raw truth. Read my words brooooo! I'm for the truth and that's all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN-NaxSRN4E

What can you really believe in a politically correct world?

Or one driven by greed and ignorance.



Ms. Clinton probably doesn't spend much time thinking about girlie bars in a third-rate city in a third world country.

And you're wrong X. I have no flaws.


And one more thing GE, she does think about human trafficing victims, probably a lot.


You have flaws bro. Yes you do.


GE, please stop provoking the Socker and his ilk.



Mr Xman, Come on X, there are none like me. Granted I think way too much, that's my problem. Ilk?? Haha, I wish I had company. Thanks

GoodEnough
04-27-14, 15:18
This will be the last of it for me. I have admitted that I am reluctantly scrambling off the boat like a rat. I have no reason to dislike the political party I grew up in except that they have abandoned their original ideals. In the last 15/20 years the Dems have become the best underhanded liars in politics. Political correctness comes from the Democratic Party, and ONLY the Democratic Party. GE are you a politically correct monger? Do you think the ladies working in the bars are not willing prostitutes. The politically correct term for them would be human trafficked victims. Are you okay w / this euphemistic NEW (!) terminology? Is this what you buy? I think you do know who the real losers will be in the Philippines in this new fantasy world that's growing out of the USA.

I have been watching society for 4 + decades so I am very familiar w / human nature and American propaganda. Granted I don't have a college education to bring forth my observations more concisely or properly written, nonetheless I speak the raw truth. Read my words brooooo! I'm for the truth and that's all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN-NaxSRN4E

What can you really believe in a politically correct world?

Or one driven by greed and ignorance.

And one more thing GE, she does think about human trafficing victims, probably a lot.

You have flaws bro. Yes you do.

Mr Xman, Come on X, there are none like me. Granted I think way too much, that's my problem. Ilk? Haha, I wish I had company. ThanksSocker, I was being facetious. Of course I've got flaws just as with every other human on the planet. I think the term "politically correct Monger" may be an oxymoron.

As to the [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) discussion, I think it's a Gordian knot that won't be unraveled anytime soon. What began as straightforward, worldwide shock and disgust over the coercive exploitation of women and minors has been grotesquely, and inaccurately expanded-I would argue largely by NGOs eager to hop on the gravy train-to an ill-conceived, ambiguously defined condemnation of commercial sex in all it's permutations. So, now adult women who make a conscious choice to engage in commercial sex practices are lumped into the same category as others who have been forced into such activities. This sloppy thinking has distorted the entire paradigm, and has resulted, I believe, in a general lack of effectiveness in efforts to curtail real trafficking. The real tragedy of course is that the mischaractierization deflects attention from programs to help the victims of horrifically real trafficking.

GE

Socker
04-27-14, 22:01
Socker, I was being facetious. Of course I've got flaws just as with every other human on the planet. I think the term "politically correct Monger" may be an oxymoron.

As to the [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) discussion, I think it's a Gordian knot that won't be unraveled anytime soon. What began as straightforward, worldwide shock and disgust over the coercive exploitation of women and minors has been grotesquely, and inaccurately expanded-I would argue largely by NGOs eager to hop on the gravy train-to an ill-conceived, ambiguously defined condemnation of commercial sex in all it's permutations. So, now adult women who make a conscious choice to engage in commercial sex practices are lumped into the same category as others who have been forced into such activities. This sloppy thinking has distorted the entire paradigm, and has resulted, I believe, in a general lack of effectiveness in efforts to curtail real trafficking. The real tragedy of course is that the mischaractierization deflects attention from programs to help the victims of horrifically real trafficking.

GEThanks for your level headed response. I am an excitable boy at times but don't mean to be crude or especially rude w / a good BM like yourself. My problem is I live in the PC capitol of the world and I am angry on a daily basis because of it. Once the Democratic Party became the progressive party everything changed. For the lunatic fringe it became better, for me a living hell.

Almost every social problem my city government tries to fix now backfires into a bigger problem then it was before. Only they expanded local government to fix it. This happens every few months and now the city can't afford to pay for all the new bureaucracy so they use the police Dept. To aggressively ticket the citizens for things that have always been legal. It's sick so I am angry about it. Sorry I was a little intense before.

These same progressives are manipulating the english language to further their agendas and to create more jobs for their like minded friends. As you stated a prostitute that wants to work in the sex industry is not to be believed by these radical government leeches and so to convince a gullible public they change the definition of said prostitute. Now the sex worker is a trafficking victim and this clever ploy (lie) seems to be acceptable to public media. For me this is a big problem because decade after decade of redefinition's what in reality can you believe? Who can you believe? This issue of Prostitute or Trafficked Victim is huge on so many levels for western societies. Eventually the truth will be buried forever it seems on many issues. That is the bigger picture here and now.

The USA is not a free country if 2 people cannot have consensual sex for money. This is a fundamental right that was taken away right after American women were allowed to vote and now they are after countries that do allow it. The world is getting smaller along w / the truth. American government workers w / good pay and benefits know what's best for ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE. This is their job and they like their jobs, who cares about freedom.

So once again, thanks for your input, I enjoy reading well written informative post, sorry mine are not well written and are not more positive.

When I go on my trips I forget about my life in PC land and am searching / planning my escape someday.

Cheers GE Bro.

Questor55
11-21-14, 23:06
Incredible to realize that the Ampatuan Massacre in Maguindanao happened five years ago and still, no one has yet to go to trial. 58 people were slaughtered in one of the worst political atrocities in Philippine history. The Ampatuan clan, widely accepted as the perpetrators of this crime, were closely aligned with the president at that time, Gloria Arroyo. However, President Acquino, using the Supreme Court, was quick to detain Arroyo on plunder and other charges, so why are the Ampatuans still awaiting trial? Cynics might suggest that it's because all the potential witnesses have not yet been eliminated. Interested in what our more astute members 'take' is on this outrage.

Wicked Roger
11-22-14, 12:02
Incredible to realize that the Ampatuan Massacre in Maguindanao happened five years ago and still, no one has yet to go to trial. 58 people were slaughtered in one of the worst political atrocities in Philippine history. The Ampatuan clan, widely accepted as the perpetrators of this crime, were closely aligned with the president at that time, Gloria Arroyo. However, President Acquino, using the Supreme Court, was quick to detain Arroyo on plunder and other charges, so why are the Ampatuans still awaiting trial? Cynics might suggest that it's because all the potential witnesses have not yet been eliminated. Interested in what our more astute members 'take' is on this outrage.Recently another witness was killed and another injured. The court process is super slow, justices. / judges are known to be corrupt, one (Ong) w a sacked, another caught in a NBI sting operations.

So I would not hold your breathe that this will ever be brought to trail.

GoodEnough
11-22-14, 13:21
Incredible to realize that the Ampatuan Massacre in Maguindanao happened five years ago and still, no one has yet to go to trial. 58 people were slaughtered in one of the worst political atrocities in Philippine history. The Ampatuan clan, widely accepted as the perpetrators of this crime, were closely aligned with the president at that time, Gloria Arroyo. However, President Acquino, using the Supreme Court, was quick to detain Arroyo on plunder and other charges, so why are the Ampatuans still awaiting trial? Cynics might suggest that it's because all the potential witnesses have not yet been eliminated. Interested in what our more astute members 'take' is on this outrage.Approximately 18.5 years ago, there was a fire in a club in Manila that resulted in scores of dead and injured. Evidently the owners of the club, who blocked at least one of the two exits were liable for a lot of the deaths. The case was just resolved this week after a lapse of almost 20 years. The fact is that, cars is the case with many if not most institutions of government here, justice is a sham.

GE.

Slippery
11-23-14, 00:31
And most, if not all of the defendants have left the country and won't be returning.

Econo Tech
11-23-14, 02:07
Recently another witness was killed and another injured. The court process is super slow, justices. / judges are known to be corrupt, one (Ong) w a sacked, another caught in a NBI sting operations.

So I would not hold your breathe that this will ever be brought to trail.The ampatuan relatives are aligned with PNoy claiming they are not the same as Andal!

And oZone fire?

The court has allowed the defendants to appeal.

Anybody knows Dona Paz? The world's worst peacetime tragedy worse than Titanic.

The owners never even were arrested.

Ikksman
11-23-14, 04:59
Incredible to realize that the Ampatuan Massacre in Maguindanao happened five years ago and still, no one has yet to go to trial. 58 people were slaughtered in one of the worst political atrocities in Philippine history. The Ampatuan clan, widely accepted as the perpetrators of this crime, were closely aligned with the president at that time, Gloria Arroyo. However, President Acquino, using the Supreme Court, was quick to detain Arroyo on plunder and other charges, so why are the Ampatuans still awaiting trial? Cynics might suggest that it's because all the potential witnesses have not yet been eliminated. Interested in what our more astute members 'take' is on this outrage."Cynics might suggest that it's because all the potential witnesses have not yet been eliminated."

It is totally disgusting that most important witnesses have not been placed in witness protection programs. And even when requested by the witnesses themselves, their applications get delayed for months. These poor citizens will likely be "eliminated" or retract their evidence before the trial.

It is also totally disgusting that the government and courts allow the delaying tactics of the defence lawyers, and take no action against the defendants offering huge bribes to victims' families.

It is indeed unfortunate that the courts have such a huge backlog of cases (and particularly those courts dealing with graft and corruption). Of course, like most major issues in PI, there is not the will to fix the problems (by those who can).

Justice will never be achieved in this case.

GoodEnough
11-23-14, 06:53
I guess this is slightly off topic, but for me there's a strong correlation between a country's commitment to and willingness to invest in quality education and the ultimate quality of its public institutions and public servants. There was a reference today, in an article I was reading, to the Times Higher Education rankings, and I was intrigued so I took a look a look at first, the top 100 universities. Unsurprisingly I guess, with the exception of an institution in Singapore, no ASEAN schools were included.. Then I checked the top 500 and though I didn't peruse the list carefully, with the exception of Singapore, I didn't see any inclusion of ASEAN institutions. Finally, I took a look at the top 100 in Asia, and again, the story was the same. I wasn't, I suppose surprised that Cambodia, Myanmar and Vietnam didn't make the grade, but the absence of a single university from Malasia and the Philippines did surprise me somewhat.

I understand that externally-created hierarchies using debatable sets of criteria aren't a definitive judgment about any field of human endeavor. However, this is perhaps a meme that suggests the overall lack of commitment here to establishing any sort of world class standard.

GE.

Wicked Roger
11-23-14, 16:22
I guess this is slightly off topic, but for me there's a strong correlation between a country's commitment to and willingness to invest in quality education and the ultimate quality of its public institutions and public servants. . However, this is perhaps a meme that suggests the overall lack of commitment here to establishing any sort of world class standard.

GE.Both you and RK have many interesting FRs on education that IMHO accurately reflect the common problem.

I read an article the other day that said the VP would speak to the masses (ie poor) as they ahs limited or no access to social media, did not read the news or watch the news and many were uneducated (then compared it with Erap's election. Ie as an actor he saved the poor so he must be able to save the country).

The lack of education means that those who vote have no clue of reality. In other ASEAN countries it is free until you are 18 - this was a major surprise to a pinay I was with in HK and KL when she was told this!

So until the ruling elite let their constituents be educated (and maybe find out how badly they have been treated) little will happen. Corruption will continue (well would you say no when your salary is a pittance?) - the quality of the public servants as GE says will continue to be generally poor with the exceptions standing out rather than being the norm.

Wicked Roger
11-23-14, 19:31
"Cynics might suggest that it's because all the potential witnesses have not yet been eliminated."

It is totally disgusting that most important witnesses have not been placed in witness protection programs. And even when requested by the witnesses themselves, their applications get delayed for months. These poor citizens will likely be "eliminated" or retract their evidence before the trial.

It is also totally disgusting that the government and courts allow the delaying tactics of the defence lawyers, and take no action against the defendants offering huge bribes to victims' families.

It is indeed unfortunate that the courts have such a huge backlog of cases (and particularly those courts dealing with graft and corruption). Of course, like most major issues in PI, there is not the will to fix the problems (by those who can).

Justice will never be achieved in this case.An interesting OpEd piece in today's Inquirer on the subject of your FR Ikks. It also includes comments on the Ozone legal case that GE noted and the Marcos family.

http://opinion.inquirer.net/80394/ph-has-slowest-justice-system-in-the-world-2

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2014/11/23/1394844/justice-massacre-victims-next-year

http://opinion.inquirer.net/80396/justice-as-tragedy

http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2014/11/22/1394439/editorial-injustice

Also seems 2 of the Ozone convicted still work for QC government (article in the Philstar) - it goes to show that unlike other countries people here (public servants / politicians) don't see any issues with working on and ignoring calls to resign when the justice system is slow.

GE is says in the link Ozone is not resolved as they can still appeal.

FreebieFan
11-24-14, 01:43
I read an article the other day that said the VP would speak to the masses (ie poor) as they ahs limited or no access to social media, did not read the news or watch the news and many were uneducated (then compared it with Erap's election. Ie as an actor he saved the poor so he must be able to save the country).

The lack of education means that those who vote have no clue of reality.

So until the ruling elite let their constituents be educated (and maybe find out how badly they have been treated) little will happen. Corruption will continue (well would you say no when your salary is a pittance?) - the quality of the public servants as GE says will continue to be generally poor with the exceptions standing out rather than being the norm.As is currently occurring with Binay. Going around the country saying hes being victimised, then saying to the masa, " have you been victimised too?" at which point they all say "Yes".

So he says " See, we are the same, vote for me and I will ensure you arent victimised again".

Its that easy. Plus giving them a tshirt and a can of sardines.

No one wants to educate the constituents. The candidate who can sing and dance better than the opposing candidate will also win. Sad but so true.

Ikksman
11-24-14, 03:10
An interesting OpEd piece in today's Inquirer on the subject of your FR Ikks. It also includes comments on the Ozone legal case that GE noted and the Marcos family.{S N I P}
GE is says in the link Ozone is not resolved as they can still appeal.Thanks WR. Interesting but sad. And an interesting comparison with the S. Korean ferry disaster legal process (completed in 7 months).

ET mentioned the ferry disaster where more than 4000 drowned. I don't remember anyone from the ferry company even being charged! And therefore the victims' families probably received zero compensation from the ferry company who grossly overloaded the ferry (by more than 3000), did not post appropriate bridge officers and failed to provide life jackets.

I think the PI legal systems are designed, and set up to fail!

Ikks.

Wicked Roger
11-24-14, 03:25
As is currently occurring with Binay. Going around the country saying hes being victimised, then saying to the masa, " have you been victimised too?" at which point they all say "Yes".

So he says " See, we are the same, vote for me and I will ensure you arent victimised again".

Its that easy. Plus giving them a tshirt and a can of sardines.

No one wants to educate the constituents. The candidate who can sing and dance better than the opposing candidate will also win. Sad but so true.There has been articles on the ferry as well and no one has been charger (well jailed) and even if they were there would be lots of appeals as the OpEds pointed out.

And as the OpEd said, or implied, the system is weak and cumbersome and is likely designed not to give much justice in the short / medium term.

Everyone gives something at election time. I laughed the headline in the Cebu Daily News last year about candidates complaining that the winning person has paid more money per person that thee one complaining and another who gave a chunk of cash (millions of pesos) to a family member and lost the election. She claimed that she should have won given that she gave a lot of money to ensure a seat LOL.

Econo Tech
11-25-14, 03:36
Thanks WR. Interesting but sad. And an interesting comparison with the S. Korean ferry disaster legal process (completed in 7 months).

ET mentioned the ferry disaster where more than 4000 drowned. I don't remember anyone from the ferry company even being charged! And therefore the victims' families probably received zero compensation from the ferry company who grossly overloaded the ferry (by more than 3000), did not post appropriate bridge officers and failed to provide life jackets.

I think the PI legal systems are designed, and set up to fail!

Ikks.Actually the owners went on to prove their ruthless money making system, by letting another ferry head into a brewing storm, and then blamed everybody but themselves, and also forgot to mention that the ship was carrying dangerous chemicals, to boot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Princess_of_the_Stars

And in the defense of the ship owners, following argument was placed.

Sulpicio Lines, the second-largest cargo carrier in the Philippines, accounts for 40% of all cargo movement across the country. Some commentators – such as Robert Go, former president of the Cebu Chamber of Commerce and Industry – argued that suspending Sulpicio's activities would cause significant disruption to the country's economy over the Christmas season.


BTW, the Chinese descendant owners, have the world record of having seen at least 5,000 people go to Davy Jones Locker, and they sleep peacefully.

And they have quietly diversified into Cargo only operations and that too didn't go well. One of their cargo vessels ended up sinking a passenger ferry near Cebu!!

Welcome to Philippines!

Wicked Roger
11-25-14, 13:25
Thanks WR. Interesting but sad. And an interesting comparison with the S. Korean ferry disaster legal process (completed in 7 months).

I think the PI legal systems are designed, and set up to fail!

Ikks.Just another as I won't labour the point anymore but this is IMHO typical. The case was started around 10 years ago and now someone has said the guy (senior politician) should lose all his ill gotten gains. As if he stopped doing when the case was first brought.

Read the comment under the article also.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/652826/ombudsman-oks-filing-of-forfeiture-case-vs-nani-perez

NTambay
11-29-14, 04:03
Both you and RK have many interesting FRs on education that IMHO accurately reflect the common problem.

I read an article the other day that said the VP would speak to the masses (ie poor) as they ahs limited or no access to social media, did not read the news or watch the news and many were uneducated (then compared it with Erap's election. Ie as an actor he saved the poor so he must be able to save the country).

The lack of education means that those who vote have no clue of reality. In other ASEAN countries it is free until you are 18 - this was a major surprise to a pinay I was with in HK and KL when she was told this!

So until the ruling elite let their constituents be educated (and maybe find out how badly they have been treated) little will happen. Corruption will continue (well would you say no when your salary is a pittance?) - the quality of the public servants as GE says will continue to be generally poor with the exceptions standing out rather than being the norm.From this guy that grew up a significant portion of my youth in the Philippines, you are correct.

I mostly agree with sociologist Randy David (he writes at the Phil Daily Inquirer), the country wants to join the modern world (in Western style) but society is still stuck on antiquated semi-feudalism. The results of "kicking the can down the road" are already manifesting (e. G Metro Manila traffic gridlock, power shortages).

I think it will take generations for any meaningful change to happen.

Hutsori
11-29-14, 07:43
I think it will take generations for any meaningful change to happen.It need not be. Just look at Taiwan and Korea - keep in mind Korea was utterly devastated by the Korean War. In both those countries the people sacrificed, willingly or at the end of a gun barrel. In Korea at 5 am six days a week loudspeakers atop gov't buildings began blaring time-to-awake-and-go-to-work messages. TV ceased broadcasting at 11pm - there's nothing here to watch, go to bed and get ready for work. Curfew at midnight - go home, go to bed, get ready for work. Labour was repressed, to put it mildly. Education was pursued with manic obsession. The citizens weren't allowed to travel overseas without gov't permission - keeps hard currency in the country. There are many casinos in the country and Koreans are not allowed to patronize all but one of them, and that's a recent development. Orphans were exported. The gov't pushed contraception and abortion as means to limit population growth; those who had to have a 4th child were told their insurance wouldn't pay for it. The WWII reparations paid by Japan in 1965 were diverted from the actual wartime victims to build roads and infrastructure. Imports were so highly taxed or outright forbidden that Koreans could do nothing other than buy then poorly-made domestic goods. All electric fan have timers on them; one just can't turn one on and let it run through the hot summers night. And just in case someone was inclined to rewire the thing the gov't invented "fan death" to scare the people away from using them. You could not find a Japanese-made vehicle in the streets until 1998. All car buyers must purchase subway bonds to build public transport. By and large the people accepted all of this, often happily, because the results were tangible. "Yes, we may pay higher prices for just about everything, yet we all rise together. " It's telling that the wealthiest Koreans are industrialists and the wealthiest Filipinos are in retail, gambling, and real-estate development. The Koreans were not allowed to begin to enjoy the trappings of western middle-class consumerism until the early to mid 1990's. In two generations Korea went from a sub-Saharan poverty level to one of the wealthiest countries in the world. And it did so without wealth disparity.

GoodEnough
11-29-14, 09:06
From this guy that grew up a significant portion of my youth in the Philippines, you are correct.

I mostly agree with sociologist Randy David (he writes at the Phil Daily Inquirer), the country wants to join the modern world (in Western style) but society is still stuck on antiquated semi-feudalism. The results of "kicking the can down the road" are already manifesting (e. G Metro Manila traffic gridlock, power shortages).

I think it will take generations for any meaningful change to happen.I read Professor David's columns regularly as well, and find his arguments cogent. I agree as well that meaningful change, if it happens at all, will take generations. However the longer I remain here the more distant that possibility seems to me. In the decade plus that I've been here, though I've witnessed some dramatic, positive highly localized development, I've neither seen nor read about any real transformative change at the national level.

I have started to believe that feudalism, corruption, and the problems that ensue from that admixture are so deeply engrained that they've become permanent fixtures. National government institutions here are simply not developing, and the population's exceedingly low expectation of its national government are routinely justified. The infrastructure is worthy of a sub-Saharan African country, as is the so-called Justice system. There's no meaningful investment in much of anything and the government continues, on a daily basis, to express its contempt for the people whom it governs.

GE.

NTambay
11-29-14, 18:30
It need not be. Just look at Taiwan and Korea - keep in mind Korea was utterly devastated by the Korean War. In both those countries the people sacrificed, willingly or at the end of a gun barrel. ...It is good it worked out someway for those countries. It will definitely not work for the Philippines because the country tries to style itself as a liberal democracy. Doing things with the gun barrel pointed at you did not work well during the Marcos era and it would not work again. The Philippine Constitution explicitly enshrined the Bill of Rights to prevent those kind of abuses perpetrated during Marcos' reign.

The influence of American political thinkers have made an indelible mark on Philippine politics through the balance of the individual and the state. For example the Constitution provides for the freedom of movement throughout the country and outside (of course with some obvious practical limitations).

For the most part liberal democracy system has worked to a certain extent, the people get the government that they voted for.

Hutsori
11-30-14, 09:38
It is good it worked out someway for those countries. It will definitely not work for the Philippines because the country tries to style itself as a liberal democracy. Doing things with the gun barrel pointed at you did not work well during the Marcos era and it would not work again. The Philippine Constitution explicitly enshrined the Bill of Rights to prevent those kind of abuses perpetrated during Marcos' reign.

The influence of American political thinkers have made an indelible mark on Philippine politics through the balance of the individual and the state. For example the Constitution provides for the freedom of movement throughout the country and outside (of course with some obvious practical limitations).

For the most part liberal democracy system has worked to a certain extent, the people get the government that they voted for.Therein is the problem: Styling itself a "free, liberal democracy" but not having the social, cultural, political and economic infrastructure. If I were a Filipino I think I'd choose two or three generations of austere progress to develop the nation over the feudal disfunctional kleptocracy that's there now. But it probably wouldn't be a pleasant place to live during that period and who knows what undesirable changes to national character would persist.

D Cups
11-30-14, 16:37
Huts: It need not be. Just look at Taiwan and Korea. Thanks for these comments, Huts. I have lived in both Korea and PI while stationed there. Yes, the Koreans have a high work ethic and are quite resourceful whereas the majority of Filipinos don't seem to like to work that much, preferring to mooch off rich relatives, particularly foreigners. Of course there are exceptions. It is amazing what Korea has done in the past 30 - 40 years. I remember when Hyundai and Samsung were just starting out in Korea. Now they are major players. IF PI would get organized and have a national vision with strong leadership at all levels, reduce the bureaucracy and nepotism, they could experience prosperity, too, but that is a BIG IF. Just my. 02.

Hutsori
11-30-14, 17:14
Huts: It need not be. Just look at Taiwan and Korea. Thanks for these comments, Huts. I have lived in both Korea and PI while stationed there. Yes, the Koreans have a high work ethic and are quite resourceful whereas the majority of Filipinos don't seem to like to work that much, preferring to mooch off rich relatives, particularly foreigners. Of course there are exceptions. It is amazing what Korea has done in the past 30 - 40 years. I remember when Hyundai and Samsung were just starting out in Korea. Now they are major players. IF PI would get organized and have a national vision with strong leadership at all levels, reduce the bureaucracy and nepotism, they could experience prosperity, too, but that is a BIG IF. Just my. 02.The Koreans are at work many hours. If you're a female gluing together shoes or soldering motherboards you're working hard. But if you're a Korean male manager.. those guys are really inefficient and at times downright lazy. They sleep at their desks. The sneak out of the office to hide out at the sauna. They're prone to hysterics. They're great drinkers though. I reckon a Filipino could match a Korean in work ethic and develop their country too. Samsung got its start collaborating with the Japanese occupiers during the annexation. Hyundai got its start with the US forces. The Korean gov't leased its military to the US during the the Vietnam War. The Koreans were able to use foreign militaries as a means to economic development. The Filipinos had the teat of US military to suck on for about 100 years. What came of it?

Toronto
12-01-14, 05:20
Huts: It need not be. Just look at Taiwan and Korea. Thanks for these comments, Huts. I have lived in both Korea and PI while stationed there. Yes, the Koreans have a high work ethic and are quite resourceful whereas the majority of Filipinos don't seem to like to work that much, preferring to mooch off rich relatives, particularly foreigners. Of course there are exceptions. It is amazing what Korea has done in the past 30 - 40 years. I remember when Hyundai and Samsung were just starting out in Korea. Now they are major players. IF PI would get organized and have a national vision with strong leadership at all levels, reduce the bureaucracy and nepotism, they could experience prosperity, too, but that is a BIG IF. Just my. 02.Being from Korea originally I find this discussion interesting. What I'm curious about is how did the Philippine economy go from the boom times of the 50's and 60's to what it is now. It is essentially the same timeframe that the Korean economy has improved dramatically to what it is now.

GoodEnough
12-01-14, 06:55
This is an interesting discussion. So far, while national character has been a focal point, the actual structure, that is, the unacknowledged group of oligarchs who actually run the country, has not been discussed. The fact on the ground is that the 14 (number could be slightly higher) families who own most of the country like things fine the way they are. The structure or some may call it lack of apparent structure, suits them fine since every important decision taken is designed essentially to augment the wealth and power of those who own the place. From this standpoint, the country functions very efficiently and there's no need to change much of anything. We tend to lament the lack of progress from the standpoint of Western economic thought, which may be adapted--as it's been in Korea, cSingapore and Japan--to a more Asian model. However, that's not the case with the Philippines, which is dedicated to the propagation of oligarchical wealth.

I've worked for years on development projects with national agencies as "partners," so I've had a chance to see he massive incompetence and general indifference to the public weal up close and personal. The simple fact is though, that the senior executives, for the most part, simply don't give a damn, and recognize, at least implicitly, that "transformative change" under current economic rules isn't feasible.

Succinctly, the only national vision here is a myopic one, focused squarely on the cash registers of the extremely wealthy.

GE.

Questor55
12-01-14, 07:53
Thanks G E for your succinct analysis of this basket case masquerading as a nation. I agree that the present situation suits the oligarchs just fine. Their stability and security depend on the rewards structure they dispense to relatives, friends and hanger-ONS. This systematic nepotism and favoritism gets to the heart of the matter that drives 'Us' crazy. By it's very nature, competence and proven experience count for little or nothing in the selection process to run practically everything. 'No Driver's Licence Required' implies that chaos will ensue. Prognosis is 'Terminal Illness'. I hate to admit it, but it appears that the early Marcos years, with the USA playing Cardinal Richeliue to the Sun King, may have been the economic, social and cultural high point for this poor country.

Slippery
12-01-14, 10:10
Being from Korea originally I find this discussion interesting. What I'm curious about is how did the Philippine economy go from the boom times of the 50's and 60's to what it is now. It is essentially the same timeframe that the Korean economy has improved dramatically to what it is now.I'll give you a one word answer. Marcos. Everybody saw how obscenely wealthy he and his senator wife got by pillaging, stealing and corruption. They wanted to be just like him. Now, that's learned behavior. On a side note, I was in Manila on Friday. It was more disgusting and repulsive than it's ever been.

X Man
12-01-14, 10:40
What is your point?


It is good it worked out someway for those countries. It will definitely not work for the Philippines because the country tries to style itself as a liberal democracy. Doing things with the gun barrel pointed at you did not work well during the Marcos era and it would not work again. The Philippine Constitution explicitly enshrined the Bill of Rights to prevent those kind of abuses perpetrated during Marcos' reign.

The influence of American political thinkers have made an indelible mark on Philippine politics through the balance of the individual and the state. For example the Constitution provides for the freedom of movement throughout the country and outside (of course with some obvious practical limitations).

For the most part liberal democracy system has worked to a certain extent, the people get the government that they voted for.

KongKing
12-01-14, 13:56
Therein is the problem: Styling itself a "free, liberal democracy" but not having the social, cultural, political and economic infrastructure. If I were a Filipino I think I'd choose two or three generations of austere progress to develop the nation over the feudal dysfunctional kleptocracy that's there now. But it probably wouldn't be a pleasant place to live during that period and who knows what undesirable changes to national character would persist.Some really interesting discussion here. Living in the Philippines for 4 years now I make it a point to get out and refresh my batteries by visiting neighbouring countries; this year with trips to Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam. It is a shot in the arm to see how these countries have developed in recent years leaving the Philippines way behind. Take Vietnam where I travelled over 16 days this last month from the Chinese border to way south of Ho Chi Minh. There is a much stronger work ethic in Vietnam. People working hard with bikes and scooters everywhere. In the 1990's 60% of the population were classed as below the poverty line. Now it stands at 10%, compared to the Philippines 25%. I saw very little evidence of beggars and street urchins; squatter villages, shanty towns and downright squaller.

Infrastructure was well advanced compared to the Philippines. Magnificent divided, tree and garden-lined highways, a good and improving rail system, and efficient airline services across the country. At entrances to shopping malls, banks, public buildings I did not see anywhere any gun-holding and frisking security guards; and nor did I see guards with mirrors on sticks going around pseudo-inspecting vehicles.

Vietnam is a so-called communist country, like China, but a market economy prevails and many international companies are moving their manufacturing components. I witnessed Samsung building its largest assembly plant enterprise just north of Hanoi. Yes, the rights of the individual are somewhat less than so-called democratic countries, but to get a country off its arse, like the Philippines, a dictatorial regime has big advantages, whether it be communist, or of the Lee Kuan Yew Singapore style.

So why do we stick with the Philippines? This ISG web-site is the give-a-way. But I don't think the authorities or the Church will go quite so far as to say More Pussy Fun in the Philippines!

KongKing.

NTambay
12-03-14, 04:59
What is your point?It was a response in where ham-fisted authoritarian rule would not work again in the country.

NTambay
12-03-14, 05:07
IIRC my old sociology professor thought it was 16 families that are the majority of landowners. With CARP law set to sunset in a few years, that number could increase. CARP was a failure anyway. It didn't help that the President at the time that signed it was a hacienda (plantation) owner herself.

The Philippine Constitution was explicitly against monopolies and political dynasties. IIRC I haven't heard any monopoly broken up yet (there are tons of them, looking at you PLDT!) and no law against political dynasties has been enacted yet.

Even the Freedom of Information (FOI) has not yet even put to a vote in Congress.


This is an interesting discussion. So far, while national character has been a focal point, the actual structure, that is, the unacknowledged group of oligarchs who actually run the country, has not been discussed. The fact on the ground is that the 14 (number could be slightly higher) families who own most of the country like things fine the way they are. ...

Succinctly, the only national vision here is a myopic one, focused squarely on the cash registers of the extremely wealthy.

GE.

Hutsori
03-13-15, 18:04
See attached.

Source: http://www.rappler.com/thought-leaders/65114-filipino-middle-class-over-taxed.

Sam 14
03-13-15, 19:52
According to John Pilger, an Australian journalist and award winning documentary producer, the Philippines spends almost half it's national budget paying just the interest on debt owed to foreign banks. And much of it was squandered my the Marcos Regime that the people got rid of. Maybe that's why it needs to try to collect more tax? Don't seem fair.

D Cups
03-13-15, 20:01
See attached.

Source: http://www.rappler.com/thought-leaders/65114-filipino-middle-class-over-taxed.Huts, am I reading this correctly? $15,844 USD annual and you are Filipino upper class? If so, no wonder I love it there!

D Cups
03-13-15, 20:07
Some really interesting discussion here. Living in the Philippines for 4 years now I make it a point to get out and refresh my batteries by visiting neighbouring countries; this year with trips to Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam. It is a shot in the arm to see how these countries have developed in recent years leaving the Philippines way behind. Take Vietnam where I travelled over 16 days this last month from the Chinese border to way south of Ho Chi Minh. There is a much stronger work ethic in Vietnam. People working hard with bikes and scooters everywhere. In the 1990's 60% of the population were classed as below the poverty line. Now it stands at 10%, compared to the Philippines 25%. I saw very little evidence of beggars and street urchins; squatter villages, shanty towns and downright squaller.

Infrastructure was well advanced compared to the Philippines. Magnificent divided, tree and garden-lined highways, a good and improving rail system, and efficient airline services across the country. At entrances to shopping malls, banks, public buildings I did not see anywhere any gun-holding and frisking security guards; and nor did I see guards with mirrors on sticks going around pseudo-inspecting vehicles.

Vietnam is a so-called communist country, like China, but a market economy prevails and many international companies are moving their manufacturing components. I witnessed Samsung building its largest assembly plant enterprise just north of Hanoi. Yes, the rights of the individual are somewhat less than so-called democratic countries, but to get a country off its arse, like the Philippines, a dictatorial regime has big advantages, whether it be communist, or of the Lee Kuan Yew Singapore style.

So why do we stick with the Philippines? This ISG web-site is the give-a-way. But I don't think the authorities or the Church will go quite so far as to say More Pussy Fun in the Philippines!

KongKing.Yes, KK, having been several times to VN, too, I have seen the same. PI's curse or culture, whatever one calls it, is our blessing and to our advantage.

Ibn Buttita
03-14-15, 02:20
Topic:

The Philippines is to Asia as Egypt is to the Middle East.

Discuss.

Or don't, I'm just making an aroundabout comment for anyone familiar with that ME dysfunctional place versus the one that at least provides such great pussy as part of the bargain.

Damn, I miss the PI so much. . .

Slippery
03-14-15, 04:46
What can anybody expect from a country where singers, dancers, movie stars and one nearly over the hill boxer are the nation's role models? Almost 50 years ago USA put a man on the moon. These people still ride around in jeepneys. I've never seen a filipino point to anybody as a role model other than one of the above. What have they contributed in medicine, engineering, electronics or computer technology? The entire society just mooches off of the rest of the world. Motivation? Those families strip most of the country of motivation from those that do work hard. Yes, just keep them singing, dancing, having irresponsible sex and living in slums while they think they're happy. Then the landowners and politicians can steal more.

Slippery
03-14-15, 05:05
Oh, and keep them speaking this bassackwards language that they speak here that nobody else in the entire world speaks or understands rather than the international language of business. For the wealthy, that's a guaranteed way of keeping the poor where they belong.

Roll Aides
03-15-15, 03:08
See attached.

Source: http://www.rappler.com/thought-leaders/65114-filipino-middle-class-over-taxed.I am curious about this data Huts, because whilst it represents a typical income-tax distribution in a highly corrupt, plutocratic kleptoctracy, e. G. America or the Philippines. On the ground I have experienced that the average Filipino pays exactly zero income taxes, unless they are employed oversees or through a major corporation like Gaisano or SM. Perhaps a segment of what could be called taxes in this diagram is absurdist fees? For example, I helped a LT GF of mine set up a business last month. Sari-sari plus travel agency. In the two and a half weeks of full working days it took to obtain the local barangay clearance, city license, cedula, fire dept, medical (I kid you not, besides subitting to a physical -- in order to get a DBA LICENSE -- she related the story to me of how she was required to go buy a de-worming pill at the local pharmacy and swallow it in the presence of the medical examiner. My question to her on this: WTF? Her reply: they put more requirements so everyone can get their fees) and various bribes (fire department put off her inspection until she relented and slipped the guy some cash, she knows the local barangy captain so she slipped out of that one. Etc.) Anyway, I digress but the point is just that: unless one considers the cost of dealing with a theivish beauracracy, after all that, she will never, EVER pay income tax. In fact, no Pinay I have ever questioned on this topic, and it is a point of curiousity for me, has ever regarded the idea of taxes with anything other than an expression of blank surprise. Maybe their brother the seaman or the cousin the OFW pays them. She's never heard of it. The idea of filing an annual return is hilarious, ludicrous. The "rich" pay taxes.

Roll Aides
03-15-15, 03:13
Yes, KK, having been several times to VN, too, I have seen the same. PI's curse or culture, whatever one calls it, is our blessing and to our advantage.The only reason to be here here is the Pinays. Lillies in the swamp, as it were. Almost makes it worth it.

Hutsori
03-15-15, 08:28
In fact, no Pinay I have ever questioned on this topic, and it is a point of curiousity for me, has ever regarded the idea of taxes with anything other than an expression of blank surprise. I know plenty of women who have corporate jobs with incomes of p25,000 - p60,0000 a month and all pay taxes; it's deducted from their pay packet. One call-centre girl's withholdings were messed up so she had to visit her previous employer a few times to get it sorted out and then go to the BIR office. Lots of waiting around. Another girl was working on adding her mother as a dependent to get the deduction.

Soapy Smith
03-15-15, 16:10
I am curious about this data Huts, because whilst it represents a typical income-tax distribution in a highly corrupt, plutocratic kleptoctracy, e. G. America or the Philippines. On the ground I have experienced that the average Filipino pays exactly zero income taxes, unless they are employed oversees or through a major corporation like Gaisano or SM. Some reliable sources suggest that about 60% of Filipinos are in the informal economy. So yes, these folks presumably pay no income taxes. But that still leaves 40% in the formal economy, and most people in that 40% are not "rich. " It is not clear whether those posing the taxation argument in the article Huts linked have this formal / informal economy mechanism calculated into their analysis. But the kinds of people Huts mentions in his latest post--who get taxed and are not rich--are affected by taxation policy. So that means everybody who receives a "paycheck" rather than being self-employed.

Roll Aides
03-15-15, 18:45
I know plenty of women who have corporate jobs with incomes of p25,000 - p60,0000 a month and all pay taxes; it's deducted from their pay packet.


Some reliable sources suggest that about 60% of Filipinos are in the informal economy. So yes, these folks presumably pay no income taxes.That all sounds about right. Girls I hang with tend to regard call center agents as, not rich, but obnoxiously well-off. A case could be made that I'm slumming it. Cheers gents.

Red Kilt
04-19-15, 12:04
This discussion should be located here rather than in the Davao thread.

It makes it much easier to quarantine it if it is confined to its specific thread.




I believe that conflict can be a resource for growth. Social and economic issues rarely get addressed without conflict, and individuals, marriages, and families grow when issues of conflict are brought into the light of day and dealt with. But not all forms of conflict are equal. Some are constructive, some are not. When people debate ideas and competing points of view and varied experiences are held up against each other, good outcomes often arise. There is evidence to support the trite notion that two heads are better than one, even though the underlying debates can be contentious and time consuming. Affective conflict, on the other handsuch as attacking a person's identity or identity groups to which they belongtakes a harsher interpersonal tack, leading to greater animosity and further conflict. For that reason, when I disagree with another person, I try to make a point to frame my disagreement toward their ideas rather than their racial, ethnic, religious, ideological, sexual orientation, gender, professional or other identities. Civility is marked by attacking the ideas of those we disagree with rather than their personhood.

As I indicated to Barba several posts ago, it was just a matter of time until somebody raised questions about whether our discussion belonged in any ISG thread. But wouldn't it have been more constructive to say: "I think this is really off topic and not of much interest to most people on the forum"? It's also very easy merely to scroll to other posts or threads or to put me on ignore if you find my posts tiresome.

As to the real world, I have gotten a little dirt under my fingernails during my lifetime. I have worked as a dishwasher, cook, carpenter, sheetrocker, painter, truck driver, swimming pool construction worker, grocery clerk, meat cutter, community educator, counselor, and high school teacher. At one time I was a union worker in a Chrysler Corporation factory, and in another factory I did tool and die work in conjunction with machine setup for manufacturing various kinds of large threaded rod products (I. E. , very large bolts). I have made public service announcements and, yes, read poetry on public radio. I have done the electrical wiring and plumbing for an entire house. I have poured, screeded, and troweled concrete, done bricklaying, and laid and mortared my share of concrete blocks. I have spent time working with men in crisis because they or a loved one had been raped. I have worked with boys struggling with their sexual identities after having been sexually abused or raped. I have supervised several levels of other folks working with kids in juvenile incarceration, which gave me a lot of exposure to cops, lawyers, judges, and angry, dysfunctional parents. I served in my country's Vietnam era army as a clerk typist, a medical corpsman, and later a company grade officer. I was discharged as a first lieutenant about a month shy of my 22nd birthday, and then went to college. I still carry all of these experiences in everything I think and do, and my "real world" now involves quite a bit of time in slums and squatter communities in the Philippines. I enjoy doing it because I learn from it. I think many people in this forum have similar experience-rich backgrounds, and it is not helpful to reduce anybody to a single attribute in order to justify your judgments about them.

Forty years ago I worked alongside factory and construction workers who resisted having to wear steel-toed shoes, shatterproof glasses, and hardhats. Our supervisors continuously tried to pump us up to detest "OSHA" (Occupational Safety and Health Administration), the great boogeyman creating all the stupidity. "Government overreach and nannyism," they told us, "it just takes money out of workers' pockets. " They didn't want us thinking for ourselves, because some of us understood it was for our own good, and that it was their profits rather than our wages that really mattered to them. Barricades, flashing caution lights, and detour signage around road construction hazards are like hardhats and safety glasses: getting there involves pushing and shoving, arm-twisting, taking them to court, replacing the political cronies who protect their status quo. The people who hold the reins don't go easily. So, despite the wonky sound, worker and motorist safety will eventually rise in the Philippines from a "narrative of action. " The taken-for-granted assumption that these safety precautions ought to be in place around road construction is a narrative, and the steps in forcing the hands of those in power are the actions that lead to narrative change. If you don't like the words or placing them in quotations, please suggest a simpler way to say this. I take your point that my writing was clumsy.

I presume you have contemplated that a much more powerful narrative underlies the work of folks in this forum who do development consulting. The development narrative has an up and a down. Global North and its values are up, the Global South and its state of "underdevelopment" are down. Setting aside normative judgments about good and bad, superiority and inferiority, I note that this narrative provides a lot of power, and therefore economic benefits, to those (including me), who can claim expertise in the narrative. I will not belabor this point, except to say that the narrative also plays to the favor of mongers in their pursuit of Filipinas. By whatever name we want to call them, narratives do matter.

In deference to your concern with over-philosophizing I will spare you from any further talk of narratives.

Random99
04-21-15, 23:46
See attached.

Source: http://www.rappler.com/thought-leaders/65114-filipino-middle-class-over-taxed.Since I'm looking for an apartment to rent, I wonder who the heck is renting apartments in the PHP 150,000 / month or even the PHP 100,000+ range.

GoodEnough
04-22-15, 03:31
Since I'm looking for an apartment to rent, I wonder who the heck is renting apartments in the PHP 150,000 / month or even the PHP 100,000+ range.The answer is lots of folks, particularly those working in Makati for large international companies. The deluxe one bedroom apartments in Raffles go for almost $4,000 USA A month and there are plenty of takers. I'm in Makati at the moment, and I'm told there's not a single five star hotel room available all week, and both the Shang and the Fairmont are sold out. My point is simply that there's a ready market here for luxury hotel rooms and condos.

GE.

Mbsl65
04-22-15, 06:56
I concur that. Looks like upper segment is always sold out.


The answer is lots of folks, particularly those working in Makati for large international companies. The deluxe one bedroom apartments in Raffles go for almost $4,000 USA A month and there are plenty of takers. I'm in Makati at the moment, and I'm told there's not a single five star hotel room available all week, and both the Shang and the Fairmont are sold out. My point is simply that there's a ready market here for luxury hotel rooms and condos.

GE.

Random99
04-22-15, 07:06
The answer is lots of folks, particularly those working in Makati for large international companies. The deluxe one bedroom apartments in Raffles go for almost $4,000 USA A month and there are plenty of takers. I'm in Makati at the moment, and I'm told there's not a single five star hotel room available all week, and both the Shang and the Fairmont are sold out. My point is simply that there's a ready market here for luxury hotel rooms and condos.

GE.Did you see the chart though? Only 22,000 families make over PHP 800,000 a year. To afford a PHP 150,000 / month, you'd need to make 150,000 * 12 / . 4 = nearly PHP 5,000,000 (and that would be cutting it somewhat tight). Numbers seem pretty small on who can rent / buy those places.

I guess there are a lot of foreign condo buyers here.

Hmm, someone is getting ripped off if you are paying $4 K USD for that 1 bedroom. You could buy it for under $400 K USD. There are some hyper-high houses, but I sure no one is renting it. I think I saw one listed for $20 K USD a month.

Hmm, hotels I can somewhat understanding getting booked via business since a "company" is paying for it. Even then supposed high end hotels aren't that expensive compared to US prices. Ugh, I stayed in Hawaii last minute once and paid closed to $1 K USD / night.

Random99
04-22-15, 07:12
I'd semi-consider this place if they came down a little in price.

http://www.globalcityestate.com/listing/penthouse-unit-for-rental-at-the-residences-at-greenbelt/

(not sure it's available because I haven't seen a duplicate listing of it).

GoodEnough
04-22-15, 08:40
I have a Filipino friend who is a driver, and for years drove for other people. Finally, he accumulated enough to purchase a nice, new Toyota sedan and began his own small business, driving foreigners hither and yon in both Manila and its environs and Angeles. He immediately began to do well, and was never shy of clients.

He purchased the car about 3 months ago and the temporary tags provided by the dealer have expired. However, the dealership can't provide him with permanent plates because the government is "out of stock. " So there he is, a budding entrepreneur, investing in his own business and stymied by governmental incompetence, corruption or whatever. To add insult to injury the government recently announced that it would vigorously enforce the "no tags no drive" policy while admitting--thus inadvertently conforming Joseph Heller's point-- that it has no tags available. Evidently, or so rumor has it, the government never paid the supplier for the last batch of plates and so the supplier has refused to provide additional license plates. This is of course, but the most recent in a continuing stream of exemplars of total incompetence and malfeasance, but it again raises the issue of how this place can possibly hope to compete with other countries in the region. Those requiring license plates to earn a living can't get them, thus they can't earn and cannot pay taxes, whereas the government is broke and doesn't have the funds it needs to provide the plates that would enable people to work and pay taxes.

A good friend of mine heard recently on CNN that the Government of the Philppines now owes approximately Php18 billion in pension arrears to retired military: money that was either stolen by politicians, spent for other priorities or both. There's evidently no intent to actually pay the finds due any time soon. This makes me wonder how it is that the credit worthiness of the country, which doesn't or perhaps can't pay its bills, keeps strengthening.

GE.

Dg8787
04-22-15, 16:08
I have a Filipino friend who is a driver, and for years drove for other people. Finally, he accumulated enough to purchase a nice, new Toyota sedan and began his own small business, driving foreigners hither and yon in both Manila and its environs and Angeles. He immediately began to do well, and was never shy of clients.

He purchased the car about 3 months ago and the temporary tags provided by the dealer have expired. However, the dealership can't provide him with permanent plates because the government is "out of stock. " So there he is, a budding entrepreneur, investing in his own business and stymied by governmental incompetence, corruption or whatever. To add insult to injury the government recently announced that it would vigorously enforce the "no tags no drive" policy while admitting--thus inadvertently conforming Joseph Heller's point-- that it has no tags available. Evidently, or so rumor has it, the government never paid the supplier for the last batch of plates and so the supplier has refused to provide additional license plates. This is of course, but the most recent in a continuing stream of exemplars of total incompetence and malfeasance, but it again raises the issue of how this place can possibly hope to compete with other countries in the region. Those requiring license plates to earn a living can't get them, thus they can't earn and cannot pay taxes, whereas the government is broke and doesn't have the funds it needs to provide the plates that would enable people to work and pay taxes.

A good friend of mine heard recently on CNN that the Government of the Philppines now owes approximately Php18 billion in pension arrears to retired military: money that was either stolen by politicians, spent for other priorities or both. There's evidently no intent to actually pay the finds due any time soon. This makes me wonder how it is that the credit worthiness of the country, which doesn't or perhaps can't pay its bills, keeps strengthening.

GE.I believe Philippines credit rating will remain AAA or AA, same as USA's if the same criteria is used when USA's credit rating was in doubt. Bottom line was that as long as the country can print more money to pay its bills, then the bills are paid and the ratings remain at AAA. Unbelievable! I believe the Philippines will be able to print more money as needed. There may be a huge devaluation of the peso but the government will be able to pay its bills. Mean while the poor will get even poorer.

BTW, if I read the paper correctly, the money for the plates are not even in the budget!

Asian Rain
04-22-15, 18:19
\He purchased the car about 3 months ago and the temporary tags provided by the dealer have expired. However, the dealership can't provide him with permanent plates because the government is "out of stock. "Just went to lunch today with a colleague who is suffering from the same problem. He can't drive his new SUV as he can't get the permanent plates and they are now enforcing the law as of April 1. He told me the penalty is PHP10 k for driving without plates and registration, so he is obviously not taking any chances. Pretty pathetic situation. Enjoy the Philippines, AR.

Buko Max
04-23-15, 00:13
Just went to lunch today with a colleague who is suffering from the same problem. He can't drive his new SUV as he can't get the permanent plates and they are now enforcing the law as of April 1. He told me the penalty is PHP10 k for driving without plates and registration, so he is obviously not taking any chances. Pretty pathetic situation. Enjoy the Philippines, AR.


He purchased the car about 3 months ago and the temporary tags provided by the dealer have expired. However, the dealership can't provide him with permanent plates because the government is "out of stock. " So there he is, a budding entrepreneur, investing in his own business and stymied by governmental incompetence, corruption or whatever. To add insult to injury the government recently announced that it would vigorously enforce the "no tags no drive" policy while admitting--thus inadvertently conforming Joseph Heller's point-- that it has no tags available. Evidently, or so rumor has it, the government never paid the supplier for the last batch of plates and so the supplier has refused to provide additional license plates. This is of course, but the most recent in a continuing stream of exemplars of total incompetence and malfeasance, but it again raises the issue of how this place can possibly hope to compete with other countries in the region. Those requiring license plates to earn a living can't get them, thus they can't earn and cannot pay taxes, whereas the government is broke and doesn't have the funds it needs to provide the plates that would enable people to work and pay taxes.
http://www.sunstar.com.ph/pampanga/local-news/2015/04/14/%E2%80%98no-plate-no-travel%E2%80%99-policy-suspended-402484

GoodEnough
04-25-15, 17:46
I'm writing this from a seat on a Cebu Pacific flight from Manila to Davao. I've now been onboard for about an hour and twenty minutes, and we won't take off for at least ten minutes. This isn't the fault of Cebu Pacific which boarded right on time as it usually does. It's attributable to a wholly inadequate airport that's limited to the use of a single runway and with ground equipment that was out of date a decade ago. The antiquarian state of the country's air transport--indeed all transport--system are not exactly breaking news however. I had not realized though, until today, how unsafe the airport may be and how the government's complete indifference to development and growth may in fact, be jeopardizing public safety. .

I thought we would actually be taking off on time since we had started accelerating down the runway and the pilot had announced that we were taking off. Suddenly, the brakes were slammed on and the feeling was much like what one experiences in a car when it's necessary to unexpectedly necessary to slam in the brakes. It was a very unsettling experience. I'm fairly sure the flight experienced what's referred to in the airline industry as a "near miss. " The pilot immediately got on the PA system to explain what had occurred and to reassure everyone that there had been no danger, but I doubt he was telling the truth. In all the years I've flown and the thousands of flights I've taken I've never experienced anything quite like this. What's even more disturbing however is the pilot's statement that these are not infrequent occurrences in Manila. I'm grateful of course for the pilot's skill but even he couldn't help but sound a bit angry as he got back on the PA again to announce still further delays in takeoff while higher priority "VIP activities" were concluded.

That the airport is substandard, inefficient, uncomfortable and generally considered one of the worst in the known universe has been deservedly widely publicized. . Until today however, I hadn't realized that it may also be unsafe, and I wonder how long it will be until some wholly avoidable accident occurs.

I guess this is just another example, if any were needed, of the government's egregious indifference to public safety or to much of anything but it's own greed. And of course I'm angry, since I've got no choice about using an unsafe airport.

GE.

Mbsl65
04-25-15, 22:59
Philippines rating is BBB+ and most lowest investment grade which is before junk rating.


I believe Philippines credit rating will remain AAA or AA,

The Cane
04-26-15, 00:01
I thought we would actually be taking off on time since we had started accelerating down the runway and the pilot had announced that we were taking off. Suddenly, the brakes were slammed on and the feeling was much like what one experiences in a car when it's necessary to unexpectedly necessary to slam in the brakes. It was a very unsettling experience. I'm fairly sure the flight experienced what's referred to in the airline industry as a "near miss. " The pilot immediately got on the PA system to explain what had occurred and to reassure everyone that there had been no danger, but I doubt he was telling the truth. In all the years I've flown and the thousands of flights I've taken I've never experienced anything quite like this. What's even more disturbing however is the pilot's statement that these are not infrequent occurrences in Manila. I too have flown thousands of flights and have had the very same thing happen to me only once. And it happened right here in the good old US of A at Chicago's O'hare International Airport. The United pilot had revved up the engines for take-off and we were racing down the runway when all of a sudden he slammed on the brakes! He immediately got on the PA system and announced calmly, "Sorry, there was cross traffic on the runway". He told the truth. And all of us unsettled passengers looked at each other all wide-eyed. Moral of the story. This kind of thing can and does happen everywhere, even in a highly developed country like the United States. The scary thing is that as the skies get more and more crowded, we are hearing more and more about these kinds of incidents. The second most scary thing that ever happened on one of my flights occurred during landing. We were coming in for landing in San Jose, Costa Rica when all of a sudden the pilot jerked the plane back up into the air! He circled around and came back in for what turned out to be an otherwise smooth and uneventful landing. No announcement was ever made, so I don't know what happened. But there was definitely something about the approach that the pilot didn't like, so he decided to pull up and try again. And in doing so, scaring the hell out of his passengers!

KongKing
04-26-15, 02:33
I thought we would actually be taking off on time since we had started accelerating down the runway and the pilot had announced that we were taking off. Suddenly, the brakes were slammed on ........... It was a very unsettling experience. I'm fairly sure the flight experienced what's referred to in the airline industry as a "near miss. " The pilot immediately got on the PA system to explain what had occurred and to reassure everyone that there had been no danger, but I doubt he was telling the truth. In all the years I've flown and the thousands of flights I've taken I've never experienced anything quite like this. What's even more disturbing however is the pilot's statement that these are not infrequent occurrences in Manila. GE.Very scary Goodenough. Manila has two runways, a major runway catering for all aircraft and a smaller cross runway for A320's and smaller aircraft. I am terrified at the prospect of a stuff up in aircraft movements -takeoffs, landings and moving across the runways, with the Manila system. Yes it is an accident and disaster waiting to happen.

The other aspect is the reporting of events at Manila airport. We have your report of the incident but I will be watching to see how mainstream media, the press, reports and investigates this "near miss". And watching to see if there is any official explanation for the incident.

GoodEnough
04-26-15, 04:04
Very scary Goodenough. Manila has two runways, a major runway catering for all aircraft and a smaller cross runway for A320's and smaller aircraft. I am terrified at the prospect of a stuff up in aircraft movements -takeoffs, landings and moving across the runways, with the Manila system. Yes it is an accident and disaster waiting to happen.

The other aspect is the reporting of events at Manila airport. We have your report of the incident but I will be watching to see how mainstream media, the press, reports and investigates this "near miss". And watching to see if there is any official explanation for the incident.It was scary, but I doubt there will be any report, given the pilot's statement that this was a "frequent" occurrence at the Manila airport. I know there are two runways, but they're perpendicular so only one can be used at a time.

I know a Filipino who works at the airport. He once casually remarked to me that if I think the airport is scary, it's a good thing I've never been in the control tower to witness the shoddy equipment on which the controllers work.

GE.

The Cane
05-13-15, 00:00
I too have flown thousands of flights and have had the very same thing happen to me only once. And it happened right here in the good old US of A at Chicago's O'hare International Airport. Moral of the story. This kind of thing can and does happen everywhere, even in a highly developed country like the United States.Recently, I was on an airliner coming in for a landing. The captain asked all the flight attendants to be seated as we were making our final approach. Then all of a sudden, the pilots revved the engines and pulled the nose of the plane up into the air! We were clearly no longer descending, but instead pulling back up into the air! The captain then calmly announced over the PA system that air traffic control had indicated that the spacing between our plane and the aircraft in front of us had been too close, and that we therefore needed to abort the landing! Next, the pilots circled around and came back in for a smooth and uneventful landing. None of the passengers aboard, including myself, appeared to be openly alarmed. The eery thing though is that as we were making our first attempt at landing, I was thinking about this very thread and the posts that had been written here on this topic! And the airport? New York City's John F. Kennedy International Airport. If it can happen here, then it can happen anywhere in the world. And it will! I think I need to put this thread and these thoughts out of my head!

Commonglass
05-18-15, 20:48
Is there anything hot to import into the Philippines right now? I'm coming from the US and I've got two empty suitcases. I remember at one time that iPhones were hot. Is there anything I can bring now to make a little extra money?

GoodEnough
05-18-15, 23:30
Is there anything hot to import into the Philippines right now? I'm coming from the US and I've got two empty suitcases. I remember at one time that iPhones were hot. Is there anything I can bring now to make a little extra money?The Apple Watch is still not available here, and I I,anime you would find s decent market for them.

Econo Tech
05-19-15, 03:19
The Apple Watch is still not available here, and I I,anime you would find s decent market for them.But, The customs in Philippines has rules, for clothes, more than 10 units is considered "Tax payable" and for electronics, more than 2 is considered. Etc. Etc.

Then again the fun kicked in, when I sent two dozen Plastic balloons by LBC and the LBC girl insisted the Customs will demand 'tax' - I told her I will take the change, and anyway, 2 dozen balloons cost me like less than 5 $.

And true to her word, when the package reached Manila, the BoC held it, saying the items are taxable. And in Philippines, they don't want to lose face, and once they decided it is taxable, they can't retreat and admit the mistake.

So the person collecting paid 100 peso tax. After spending much more for the travel / time etc.

Welcome to Philippines.

Commonglass unless you have lined up buyer with cash ready, be prepared to negotiate your life away, and end up selling stuff for hulugang.

And a little tip -if you spite the wrong person, they can report you to BIR for selling without a tax permit etc. Etc. . or rather, find a way to relieve you of your property.

Have fun, and I am sure you will.

GoodEnough
05-21-15, 03:59
I've now been here for about 11 years, and yet I find, every now and then, that this place still has a capacity to surprise the hell out of me. Today, for example, we received a visit from a Department of Labor and Employment (DOLE) Inspector; a very pleasant woman with reasonable English. This was her second visit in the past two weeks, and was scheduled. She arrived on time. She was here to follow up on our compliance with requirements about which, prior to her visit, I had known nothing. These include, to my surprise:

1. The need to have a certified first aid specialist on staff. Why? Who knows, but it meant I had to send someone (at modest expense) to a Red Cross lifesaving course for four days, thereby sacrificing our days of his productivity. Who knows? Maybe after this he'll decided to apply to Med School.

2. The need for a "Fire Safety" (I kid you not) Committee. I was tempted to ask, if this is required, how it is that about 70 people were killed a couple of weeks ago in a factory fire that permitted welding near flammable chemicals, had welded its windows shut, and provided zero fire exists. I was prudent enough however to have held my tongue. Now my office is on the 12th floor of a large building, and you would think that the building owners / managers would be responsible for that, but apparently not.

3. Written policies on treatment of Dengue Fever (at no cost to the employee) and Tuberculosis, as if the country reflects the pinnacle of preventive health care.

4. Designation of an individual to record any workplace accidents or fatalities.

Again, the country seems to have created the illusion of a tough industrial monitoring policy while permitting the existence of substandard working conditions throughout the country. Oh, did I forget to mention that the lady also wants to review compensation, just to ensure I supposed, that our salary structures are in compliance.

GE.

Wicked Roger
05-21-15, 08:33
I forget to mention that the lady also wants to review compensation, just to ensure I supposed, that our salary structures are in compliance.

GEThe first 4 points are not surprising GE, the fact that DOLE want to seek a way to know your salary structure is mildly amusing given that little is done to raise the minimum wage or help those in the fire who it is reported in the press earned PHP 200 a day.

I know another girl earning that and no one from DOLE ever visits. Maybe it is because you are an expat.

My friend has a small business in the country and he employs qualified people and an excellent office manager but he also gets visits from DOLE asking about the salaries.

Two employees were terminated a while back as the work was no longer required but they complained to DOLE who got heavy handed etc. He has a strong employment contract (written by a competent lawyer. He is also a lawyer and researched the matter also) that the people had signed and he paid more then he should as compensation for loss but still DOLE wanted lots more (as did those who lost job).

DOLE personnel could understand why they lost the jobs due to restructuring and the basic fact that his office no longer does that work! Was an odd meeting he said.

He refused to budge or discuss salaries, the people left but he is sure DOLE will be back.

I will mention the Health and Safety etc as those points I am sure he no idea about.

But the DOLE lady for you was on time so that is a plus point.

Econo Tech
05-22-15, 04:16
1. The need to have a certified first aid specialist on staff. Why? Who knows, but it meant I had to send someone (at modest expense) to a Red Cross lifesaving course for four days, thereby sacrificing our days of his productivity. Who knows? Maybe after this he'll decided to apply to Med School.Well, The Red Cross has a lot of corruption allegations, all unproven (and in some cases, I do feel the allegations are fabricated to defame a person or organisation) and the First Aid thing may have been inserted to support the senator who heads Red Cross.


2. The need for a "Fire Safety" (I kid you not) Committee. I was tempted to ask, if this is required, how it is that about 70 people were killed a couple of weeks ago in a factory fire that permitted welding near flammable chemicals, had welded its windows shut, and provided zero fire exists. I was prudent enough however to have held my tongue. Now my office is on the 12th floor of a large building, and you would think that the building owners / managers would be responsible for that, but apparently not.

Again, the country seems to have created the illusion of a tough industrial monitoring policy while permitting the existence of substandard working conditions throughout the country. Oh, did I forget to mention that the lady also wants to review compensation, just to ensure I supposed, that our salary structures are in compliance.
GE.Review compensation? Haha.

I been there a few times, dealing with the Philippines Embassy.

One of my colleague applied for Visa to PH, as he is from a country that needs visa in advance.

When he produced all documents, including bank statement, his residency in Singapore and all, the Embassy staff asked him where the employment letter and pay slip is.

He was confused, and asked her which embassy asked for employment letter and pay slip.

She was adamant, and quoted the Embassy rules "to verify financial capacity of traveler".

He told her, with a big smile, that he earns more than enough not to be a refugee in Philippines, and the bank statement is sufficient proof.

The Lady, as usual, in Philippines as they don't want to lose face, told the guy "I can't promise you that the visa will be approved.

Coincidentally he was invited for a Philippines Business Club Meeting, and he did mention the story to the Ambassador. The Ambassador was shocked at the treatment how a possibly investor was treated, and promised to do the needful.

Of course, by this time I told him clearly be ready to face the same unwanted scrutiny when he applies for the visa again.

My own suspicion is, the lady at the counter was interested to know how much the fellow earned. Possibly the same as it happened in your visit.


Two employees were terminated a while back as the work was no longer required but they complained to DOLE who got heavy handed etc. He has a strong employment contract (written by a competent lawyer. He is also a lawyer and researched the matter also) that the people had signed and he paid more then he should as compensation for loss but still DOLE wanted lots more (as did those who lost job).I recall an incident, a few years ago, a foreign investor owned factory burned down.

The fellow flew in, and assured the employees they will be paid the salaries until the factory is fixed and production restarted. What else could anybody ask?

Well, not in Philippines.

The 'activists' et al decided that asking for a termination benefit package is better and demanded the employer consider the business to have shut down and compensate the workers accordingly for the number of years worked etc, etc, all in the presence of DOLE officials.

Possibly the monthly salary looked low, vs earning a big termination pay off, and the fact that once terminated, most may never find jobs didn't compute in their thinking.

Killing the Golden Egg laying goose?

The smart fellow said he will get back to his country and work out the details and as soon as he left, he got his lawyer to tell the workers to fly a kite. And the offer of continuing salaries has been stopped as the primary investors decided to close shop for good.

He has an arrest warrant outstanding, but he has no plan to head to Philippines.

Foreign investors are welcome in Philippines, 100%.

Random99
07-18-15, 04:19
Massive apartment in BGC and actually one of the better values out there in the luxury space at 1400 sq meters. Place looks awesome.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/10/08/14/what-p178-million-condo-unit-looks

There is another building in BGC listing a penthouse for 200 million or 600,000 PHP / month rent. Much smaller at 600 sq meters with no outdoor area. I am guessing they are hoping for an idiot that can't do math. Using their figures, you are only getting a measly 3. 6% return (not counting any appreciation on real estate value) and I doubt they will find a LT renter at those prices. Doing a comp vs the first place makes the unit look ridiculously expensive.

http://www.zipmatch.com/listings/condominium-for-sale-at-pacific-plaza-towers-in-taguig-city-14271?utm_source=mitula&utm_medium=feed

GoodEnough
08-26-15, 10:22
As I sit here in my darkening living room, caused by an incompetent, indifferent government's inability to provide reliable power, I feel the momentum of a serious rave building inside. Evidently, the Philippines has the highest, or perhaps the second highest electricity rates in Asia and the most unreliable electrical generating capacity of all of the major countries in ASEAN; it's a double win!

On Sunday, while sweltering in a dirty, un-air conditioned terminal 3 at NAIA, the power went out and it took a good five minutes, perhaps a bit more, for the generators to kick in. I couldn't help but wonder how that might affect planes on final approach with which radar and indeed all ground contact had been lost. I guess the government just doesn't really care.

Today I noticed, while driving along Diversion Road, part of the National Highway System in Davao that the much ballyhooed "major roadworks" that have been going on for about 6 months, have worsened the road conditions to an extent that it looks like a child accidentally kicked over buckets of hot asphalt and let the stuff run wherever the laws of physics would take it. My guess is that the politicians stole 90-95% of the money and used whatever was left over to construct an approximation of a real road, which is now in much worse shape than it was before.

Maybe it's because I haven't been outside to visit a real country for a few months, but I have started to ask myself yet again how Filipinos tolerate the incompetence and rampant greed of those who run the government. It's become almost incomprehensible to me, whether jammed into the barely mobile flow of EDSA traffic, crammed into one of the world's worst airports, or driving along a rutted, deteriorating road in Davao how Filipinos can abide being screwed over for so long by the oligarchs who own the country.

The author James Hamilton-Patterson argues that Filipinos have been so mercilessly exploited for so long that despair has become hard wired into the cultural DNA: they know that nothing will ever change and they know there's nothing they can do about it. As I remarked to a friend today, I guess in a country where the Supreme Court is for sale, there really is no hope.

I'm tired of it all and commend those who can accept it with a benign shrug. However, I think I've had about enough.

Rant over, but the feelings will remain.

GE.

WestCoast1
08-26-15, 14:23
The author James Hamilton-Patterson argues that Filipinos have been so mercilessly exploited for so long that despair has become hard wired into the cultural DNA: they know that nothing will ever change and they know there's nothing they can do about it.Which, oddly, makes the place perfect. It means a decade from now I will be able to head to the province to see my young ladies (who keep bringing me more young ladies) who, just like today, will be bubbly happy with a few thousand pesos for a few days / nights spent with me. What a country!

GoodEnough
08-26-15, 14:40
Which, oddly, makes the place perfect. It means a decade from now I will be able to head to the province to see my young ladies (who keep bringing me more young ladies) who, just like today, will be bubbly happy with a few thousand pesos for a few days / nights spent with me. What a country!From that perspective, I guess it is perfect. For those who live and work here, not so much.

GE.

PolyOrchid
08-26-15, 18:32
I'm tired of it all and commend those who can accept it with a benign shrug. However, I think I've had about enough.Here's hoping you hit a soft landing and finally escape. My god, how you can have endured it all these years is a mystery to me. I hope it's had its benefits.

ManonsanBoy
08-26-15, 18:47
Phils is run for the benefit of 3 institutions;.

The 7 families who control its lands.

The Church which controls the rest.

The politicians and their supporters and families.

Simple really.

Simmer
08-26-15, 20:02
I have started to ask myself yet again how Filipinos tolerate the incompetence and rampant greed of those who run the government.Simply because the majority have never left the country and thus know no better. Even as a moderately well-travelled European, it still amazes me at some of the crap that goes on in the US even after living here for several years. And vice versa, of course.

Slippery
08-27-15, 22:30
Simply because the majority have never left the country and thus know no better. Even as a moderately well-travelled European, it still amazes me at some of the crap that goes on in the US even after living here for several years. And vice versa, of course.And over 80% of all Americans have never left the country either.

GoodEnough
08-28-15, 01:46
Simply because the majority have never left the country and thus know no better. Even as a moderately well-travelled European, it still amazes me at some of the crap that goes on in the US even after living here for several years. And vice versa, of course.I doubt that the causality is quite so direct. I'm sure the same can be said of Thais and Indnesians and Vietnamese, yet despite rampant corruption in their countries, visible progress in economic growth and infrastructure development is being made. I think the answer lies in the rapacious greed of Filipino politicians which is more voracious than in any other country in which I've worked. And I've worked all over Asia and Africa, so I'm hardly a naïf in the ways of corruption. The fact is that this place, despite the pretense of a single flag / single country, is still run as a loose amalgamation of semi-autonomous sultantates and the same families that have exercised control for hundreds of years continue to do so.

GE.

Jp Slicky
08-28-15, 11:06
In regards to sitting in a darken room, I was wondering if a gas or diesel generator hooked to the household grid would help out?

Mbsl65
08-28-15, 12:53
GE.I think the entire country controlled by Filipino-Chinese Mafia. Only thing they don't control is the IT industry. I hope new generation will topple them.

D Cups
08-28-15, 14:23
Hi GE, howyadoin, I am wondering if the geographic dispersion of all the islands makes it difficult for the Filipino people to initiate any sort of political and economic reform. Certainly the church preaches compliance and "God's will". It is a very complicated situation there that fortunately benefits Western visitors and to a lesser degree, residents.


I doubt that the causality is quite so direct. I'm sure the same can be said of Thais and Indnesians and Vietnamese, yet despite rampant corruption in their countries, visible progress in economic growth and infrastructure development is being made. I think the answer lies in the rapacious greed of Filipino politicians which is more voracious than in any other country in which I've worked. And I've worked all over Asia and Africa, so I'm hardly a naf in the ways of corruption. The fact is that this place, despite the pretense of a single flag / single country, is still run as a loose amalgamation of semi-autonomous sultantates and the same families that have exercised control for hundreds of years continue to do so.

GE..

GoodEnough
08-28-15, 16:07
Hi GE, howyadoin, I am wondering if the geographic dispersion of all the islands makes it difficult for the Filipino people to initiate any sort of political and economic reform. Certainly the church preaches compliance and "God's will". It is a very complicated situation there that fortunately benefits Western visitors and to a lesser degree, residents.

.Indonesia has twice the number of islands of the Philippines, yet is making larger strides toward economic development. If the "benefits" of which you speak refer to cheap, abundant and compliant young women then yes, that's true. However, though this may be difficult to believe, even that gets old after a while. For me, it's simply not enough to sustain any interest in a country that so continuously exploits its own people.

GE.

Simmer
08-28-15, 21:39
I doubt that the causality is quite so direct. I'm sure the same can be said of Thais and Indnesians and Vietnamese, yet despite rampant corruption in their countries, visible progress in economic growth and infrastructure development is being made. I think the answer lies in the rapacious greed of Filipino politicians which is more voracious than in any other country in which I've worked. And I've worked all over Asia and Africa, so I'm hardly a naf in the ways of corruption. The fact is that this place, despite the pretense of a single flag / single country, is still run as a loose amalgamation of semi-autonomous sultantates and the same families that have exercised control for hundreds of years continue to do so.

GE.I know you're very familiar with PI so I won't argue too much (grin!) but I get to meet a lot of OFWs, being the husband of one, and a lot say being abroad opened their eyes as to what was going on back home which they previously assumed to be the norm, or at least not as bad as they thought.

GoodEnough
08-29-15, 04:43
I know you're very familiar with PI so I won't argue too much (grin!) but I get to meet a lot of OFWs, being the husband of one, and a lot say being abroad opened their eyes as to what was going on back home which they previously assumed to be the norm, or at least not as bad as they thought.That is undoubtedly true, and my wife has had the same epiphany due to our travels. I've found however that the increased understanding of what's possible only adds to the resentment and frustration since they also know they're powerless to do anything about it.

There is a handful of local academics, trained at the graduate level abroad, who routinely, and incisively rail against the corruption, incompetence and the status quo. However, as far as the complacent politicians are concerned these folks are mere voices in the wilderness. Read the columns of Randy David, a Professor of Sociology Emeritus at UP Diliman or Cielito Habito, a Ph.D. Economist and former Deputy Director of NEDA, if you want to read some highly articulate, well-reasoned discourse on the subjects.

GE

GE.

D Cups
08-29-15, 13:53
Yes, good comparison, GE, and yes on the benefits, too. Indonesia is a great destination for the hobby, too, but I guess I am drawn to the PI because I used to live there, they speak English and it is so inexpensive. Maybe I would get tired of the constant new supply of young girls entering "the market" every year but I sure would like to try. Regards.


Indonesia has twice the number of islands of the Philippines, yet is making larger strides toward economic development. If the "benefits" of which you speak refer to cheap, abundant and compliant young women then yes, that's true. However, though this may be difficult to believe, even that gets old after a while. For me, it's simply not enough to sustain any interest in a country that so continuously exploits its own people.

GE..

GoodEnough
10-15-15, 02:56
The editorial appearing in today's Inquirer explains, quite comcisely, all anyone really needs to know about Governance in this country.

http://opinion.inquirer.net/89415/ties-that-bind-and-blind

GE.

Wicked Roger
10-15-15, 11:32
The editorial appearing in today's Inquirer explains, quite comcisely, all anyone really needs to know about Governance in this country.

http://opinion.inquirer.net/89415/ties-that-bind-and-blind

GE.I read the same GE and is seen I every town etc in the country. In Visaya the departing wanted his daughter t be mayor so "Lollipop" will now take her dad's place. Her father said in the press he was speaking with the Governor to make sure she was on the list to stand.

I ask my ladies about th1's and all just have no idea how to break this circle. In Cebu one family lost and other wins so the losers who dominate the council tend to vote down or just make a nuisance. As one pinoy said to me, how do we get anything done here when one family is biter abbot losing tier chance get there noses in the feed bag.

What is very obvious is the lack of will and energy from anyone in government to do anything that goes against their family interests. And Cebu some of the families openly opposed in the press the anti dynasty law (despite as the article says it being one of the tenets of the Constitution). The opponent argument was "no one her will vote for it, who will stand if we don't" sort of take on the rationale.

Is why when am speaking with many pinays overseas they despair and while they want to return they cannot and will not, finding a new life elsewhere as they have given up hope basically (thought the mention of Rody the seems to give them hope, but at the time of writing that seems a distant prospect).

Fastpiston
11-23-15, 03:25
I doubt that the causality is quite so direct. I'm sure the same can be said of Thais and Indnesians and Vietnamese, yet despite rampant corruption in their countries, visible progress in economic growth and infrastructure development is being made. I think the answer lies in the rapacious greed of Filipino politicians which is more voracious than in any other country in which I've worked. And I've worked all over Asia and Africa, so I'm hardly a naf in the ways of corruption. The fact is that this place, despite the pretense of a single flag / single country, is still run as a loose amalgamation of semi-autonomous sultantates and the same families that have exercised control for hundreds of years continue to do so.

GE.Yes, and note the names of the leaders and senators. Always from the same small group of rich Filipino Spanish dynasties. Same with businesses which are closed off to foreigners. The Economist magazine published an article 30 years ago saying that the Philippines will never progress meaningfully if it continues to be ruled by Filipino Spanish dynasty families. Looks like nothing has changed after 30 years. They also said the "Philippines never fails to disappoint".

Golfinho
11-23-15, 05:01
Lots of fresh, new entertaining graffiti all over Manila in the wake of the APEC summit. If you're coming into the airport by suv transport, have camera at the ready and record a little piece of contemporary history before it gets painted over.

Simmer
11-23-15, 17:58
Lots of fresh, new entertaining graffiti all over Manila in the wake of the APEC summit. If you're coming into the airport by suv transport, have camera at the ready and record a little piece of contemporary history before it gets painted over.What's the theme? Greedy politicians? Something else?

Member #4351
11-23-15, 18:45
What's the theme? Greedy politicians? Something else?The Pinay demonstrator who was interviewed on CNN was blaming all Philippine problems on USA Companies making money off "the backs of the poor Filipinos".

JjBee62
11-23-15, 20:00
The Pinay demonstrator who was interviewed on CNN was blaming all Philippine problems on USA Companies making money off "the backs of the poor Filipinos".Most likely a combination of the two. Corporations are happy to give handouts to greedy politicians in exchange for laws which guarantee their profits. Last spring in Bogota there was a major demonstration and some rioting because of this.

It's a bit unfair to single out US corporations, most corporations do the same thing at every opportunity.

Wicked Roger
11-24-15, 04:31
The Pinay demonstrator who was interviewed on CNN was blaming all Philippine problems on USA Companies making money off "the backs of the poor Filipinos".Surprisingly the person did not mention the greedy family dynasties that plunder the country's wealth and the politicians from the same families that make sure that jail time is minimal and they can continue their merry ways. But as many blogger / netziens keep saying "you keep voting for them as they give you 1000 pesos, a bag of rice and Pepsi" LOL.

She was very misguided IMHO as while corporations all over the world do what they all do and maximize profit at others expense and some get very corrupt along the way for sure, the problems the Philippines has IMHO are much closer to home and much harder to fix as these are like a cancer. Ad so far there is o cure for cancer.

Golfinho
11-24-15, 18:22
What's the theme? Greedy politicians? Something else?What 'theme' (if you could imagine) would be going through your mind while you were getting power washed to the pavement, and there you have it.

Achmmc
12-01-15, 22:31
Surprisingly the person did not mention the greedy family dynasties that plunder the country's wealth and the politicians from the same families that make sure that jail time is minimal and they can continue their merry ways. But as many blogger / netziens keep saying "you keep voting for them as they give you 1000 pesos, a bag of rice and Pepsi" LOL.

She was very misguided IMHO as while corporations all over the world do what they all do and maximize profit at others expense and some get very corrupt along the way for sure, the problems the Philippines has IMHO are much closer to home and much harder to fix as these are like a cancer. Ad so far there is o cure for cancer.I'd venture to say that if a person the greedy family dynasties instead of corporations, that interview would not make the broadcast as it does not follow the liberal narrative that capitalism is evil and the cause of poverty.

Soapy Smith
03-12-16, 01:22
That said however, it is true that the overall state of the education system here is beyond pathetic. Teachers are poorly trained, often pay bribes to get their jobs, and schools are poorly equipped. It's no wonder then, that the geographical knowledge of the average Filipino is so poor.
(Snip in order not to rile up Republicans)
Local schools here waste so much time on meaningless pageants, "art" projects, celebrations and other non-academic pursuits that the percentage of time spent actually studying anything substantive is fairly small. Couple that with the general ignorance of many teachers and the absence of learning resources and the net result isn't pretty.
GE.


I am currently working with approximately 300 teachers engaged in high quality professional development activities and I am very impressed with their amazing dedication and desire to improve their capacity, and their knowledge levels are also adequate. I will meet them again in April and I am sure they will have made great progress on the tasks that I set for them.
I am not denying that Philippines education is struggling to maintain adequate standards nor am I defending the severe problems in the system but this is due to the overwhelming numbers that the system is trying to deal with and not due to the incredible dedication of a majority of filipino teachers. I also find that the current DepED administration is easily the most competent and hard-working group of administrators that have occupied these positions since I have been working with the agency.I have moved this here from the Chatroom thread. Following RK's point about misplacing the discussion in the Chatroom thread, I suspect there are many who see no place for it in any ISG thread. I think it belongs somewhere in the forum, if for no more reason than to educate others in the forum about the life circumstances and socialization of the nubile young women they pursue.

I do agree, GE, that your assessment may be a little overly sweeping, but to be fair, I think you were condemning the system as a whole rather than individual teachers. Your argument is not necessarily incompatible with RK's observations about the many highly motivated individual teachers. Your despair focuses on the system as a whole; RK's hopes focus on individuals.

I presume that the two of you have lots of exposure to educators and administrators; I do not. But my view is from below, looking at the system and individual lives from the viewpoint of uneducated people in the slums as well as from the handful of my well-educated acquaintances who survived this system. In one poor Metro Manila family that I know quite well, two teenage boys walk to a nearby public high school, while their younger sister has to ride jeepneys and tricyles to another public high school two kilometers away. Why? Because the first school is overcrowded, and for the last two years new admits to the over-crowded school are on a priority basis only. Part of the problem is the expansion of curriculum to 12 years, which now keeps kids in school two additional years. The two schools have gone to shifts: half the kids go from very early morning until noon, the other half from afternoon until early evening. I have no idea whether there are two separate shifts of teachers, but it wouldn't surprise me if the extra burden of two additional years of schooling falls on the backs of teachers. Shit rolls downhill.

The two boys have frequent assignments that shift costs for learning materials from the (ostensibly) resource-strapped schoolspaper and other materials for assigned projects, internet access and printing assignments at the neighborhood internet caf, pencils, globes, maps, lined notebooks, and even text books (Yes, sending kids and parents to the National Bookstore, 5 km away, because the school doesn't have enough of the required textbooks.) And then there are the costs of uniforms, dress shoes, and sneakers and gym outfits. Kids grow out of their clothes and wear holes in the shoes. So for poor families who make their living in the informal economyunlicensed street-side vending, tricycle driving, tenant farming, harvesting recyclables, door-to-door sales, unlicensed beauty and barbershops run out of the homeit's a difficult decision to allow your kids to stay in school and siphon off these educational costs, when the kid could so easily become part of the family business.

Interestingly, the girl brings home fewer assignments that require her to purchase materials or internet time. I don't know the particulars, but I can't help wondering if part of the expectation for outside materials reflects a difference in built up expectations within the culture of teachers and principals at the two schools. So these are anecdotal experiences, but it does seem like many problems are systemic in nature.

GE and others have previously pointed out the uneven quality of higher education in the Philippines. It makes sense that this contributes to uneven quality in public school teachers, but also to a bunch of college graduates working for McDonalds and as security guards. These are systemic problems that are beyond the control of individual students or teachers. Limited resources rear their head again, and these include economic resources as well as unmotivated administrators, low morale, lack of confidence in the system (and thus motivation to innovate), corruption, and so on. Against this backdrop RK has found 300 teachers who want to make a difference; maybe there are others if we knew where to look and what to ask.

RK praises the attitude and competence of the current Department of Education administration. I met Brother Armin once several years ago, and I saw nothing then or since to dissuade me that he is a faithful LaSallian Brother committed to Philippine educational development and justice. We might surmise that he has gathered good people around him. But perhaps it takes more than a few heroic people at the top. There is an interesting new perspective on leadership that tries to shift the focus away from a few "heroic" individuals and their qualities and attitudes and treat leadership instead as an event or process that can happen anywhere in the organization or system and can be initiated by people in many different walks of life.

GE has argued in the past that he does not sense sufficient frustration and initiative among the Philippine masses and the middle class to throw off the monopoly of power that rests in the hands of family oligarchs who control and benefit from things as they are. So how do we implant in the 300 teachers the confidence and know-how to change their systems from within--before their enthusiasm and creativity get worn down by the complacency, resource and administrative barriers, and cultural malaise that surrounds them?

Finally, if RK's work succeeds, it will undermine under-education among the masses and poverty that fuel the supply of willing and exotic young Filipinas that men on this forum pursue. I think many of us have a sort of conflict of interest here. I admit that I have contributed schizophrenically to both sides of the equation.

Red Kilt
04-04-16, 03:56
It intrigues me that the posters who spend most column width criticizing the Philippines are those who have made a decision to live here permanently (or who return here time and again for various short periods), whether it is in Manila, Cebu, Davao or elsewhere.

It must make for a mostly miserable time to be so focused on the problems here.

I live here too (and have done so for 20 years now), but I tend to focus on the positive reasons for why I choose to live in the Philippines, and for me, there are many.

It certainly gives me much more enjoyment to focus on the best parts of my life rather than to bang on and on about all the things that are wrong but that I can never hope to change.

Dg8787
04-04-16, 04:38
It intrigues me that the posters who spend most column width criticizing the Philippines are those who have made a decision to live here permanently (or who return here time and again for various short periods), whether it is in Manila, Cebu, Davao or elsewhere.

It must make for a mostly miserable time to be so focused on the problems here.

I live here too (and have done so for 20 years now), but I tend to focus on the positive reasons for why I choose to live in the Philippines, and for me, there are many.

It certainly gives me much more enjoyment to focus on the best parts of my life rather than to bang on and on about all the things that are wrong but that I can never hope to change.Very well said.

I like to add that the time spent bitching and complaining could have been spent in a positive manner and made a difference here.

GoodEnough
04-04-16, 04:50
Very well said.

I like to add that the time spent bitching and complaining could have been spent in a positive manner and made a difference here.I try, often despite my better judgment, to focus on the positives, and RK is right, there are several. I've found however that recently the balance (for me) has shifted dramatically, and I'm not sure there are sufficient positives remaining to keep me here. Part of my longer-term decision will be contingent on what happens as a result of next month's elections. If the pendulum for positive change lurches forward, I'll stay. If, as I suspect, the one of the same tired, sleazy politicians can rig the election successfully, then I will probably go and try my luck elsewhere. I think, for all of us, in the end it comes down to personal choices.

GE.

Dg8787
04-04-16, 05:00
I try, often despite my better judgment, to focus on the positives, and RK is right, there are several. I've found however that recently the balance (for me) has shifted dramatically, and I'm not sure there are sufficient positives remaining to keep me here. Part of my longer-term decision will be contingent on what happens as a result of next month's elections. If the pendulum for positive change lurches forward, I'll stay. If, as I suspect, the one of the same tired, sleazy politicians can rig the election successfully, then I will probably go and try my luck elsewhere. I think, for all of us, in the end it comes down to personal choices.

GE.Of course my comment did not include you GE. You actually have the most informative and accurate posts. I understand that it gets pretty hard to stomach the politics and corruption here, especially seeing the poverish and hopeless ness effects on the people.

GoodEnough
04-04-16, 09:02
Á propos of the recent discussion, I thought some of you might be interested in the following article from today's "New Yorker" magazine. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/04/11/the-sacrifices-of-an-immigrant-caregiver.

GE.

Soapy Smith
04-05-16, 08:45
It must make for a mostly miserable time to be so focused on the problems here.

It certainly gives me much more enjoyment to focus on the best parts of my life rather than to bang on and on about all the things that are wrong but that I can never hope to change.
I think you set up a false dichotomy. Illuminating the difficulties of life for poor Filipinos does not, in my experience, equate with either misery or hopelessness. I return to the Philippines because, despite the many dirty features of life here, I love the people--and obviously the sex. Many in the forum rank out the bad habits of Filipinos when they exercise "Filipino time"--including you, as I recall, when you described a situation in which a woman kept you waiting at Mall of Asia. It frustrates me too, except that I also recognize that there's a flip side, that life in the Philippines is a lot more laid-back and less stressful. I won't speak for others, but I think it's possible to embrace the paradox of life in the Philippines: on the one hand, there's lots of squalor, and on the other, there's a lot of joy, despite the squalor.

Personally, I find much more ugliness in my own country, and the recent exposure by a German newspaper about the extensive offshore money laundering of the world's capitalist and political elites reinforces my viewpoint, IMHO. I am a long-suffering and sometimes insufferable political liberal. I see injustice and want to do something about it, even the things I can't change. But I do try to chip away at it, because in my most sober moments I know I can really only help a few individuals, mostly a few young people, and just hope that they keep up the good fight throughout their lifetimes. It seems to me that your dedication to working with 300 inspired teachers is in that same vein.

But recognizing my limits and recognizing the enormity of injustice in the world--most of which I can't change--is not to me a reason for not also telling the truth as I see it. And BTW, if I could figure out how to do it, I could see myself living out my life in the Philippines, very much as you seem to have decided to do. I don't see a contradiction between that and a candid portrayal of difficulties in the Philippines.

Mr Hawaii
04-05-16, 22:52
I have been to P. I. So many times that I had to add pages to my passport. Have traveled all over the country, have seen what most others see. "It's not what you look at, it's what you see." - Thoreau. I like your attitude, Soapy Smith.

GoodEnough
04-07-16, 03:23
A lot of us have written, over the past several years about the sad state of infrastructure here. Today's editorial in the "Philippine Imquirer" provides so, e evidence that there really are people in the country who are extremely concerned with the deplorable infrastructure conditions. http://opinion.inquirer.net/94173/pitch-dark.

GE.

Wicked Roger
04-07-16, 06:12
A lot of us have written, over the past several years about the sad state of infrastructure here. Today's editorial in the "Philippine Imquirer" provides so, e evidence that there really are people in the country who are extremely concerned with the deplorable infrastructure conditions. http://opinion.inquirer.net/94173/pitch-dark.

GE.Other newspapers carried similar editorials even the CDN (Cebu Daily News) ad the local Cebu press carrying the national's articles on this. As a frequent user of T3 nothing surprises me but despite all that is said I prefer it to T1.

Soapy Smith
04-07-16, 08:36
A lot of us have written, over the past several years about the sad state of infrastructure here. Today's editorial in the "Philippine Imquirer" provides so, e evidence that there really are people in the country who are extremely concerned with the deplorable infrastructure conditions. http://opinion.inquirer.net/94173/pitch-dark.

GE.Yes, an encouraging sign. And they raise a scary specter about how much worse things might have been, for example, if organized criminals or terrorists had been part of the equation.

They were right to suggest that some prominent heads should fall, but that seems an incomplete solution. And the comparison to East Asian resignations under loss of face is misplaced. In East Asian countries resignations in these circumstances serve a deep collectivist cultural pressure to make things right so that others can remain standing without loss of dignity. But I suspect a firing under these circumstances in the Philippines has a scapegoating effect and little else.

There's a great line in the movie **Spotlight** about the systematic concealment of child sexual abuse by the Catholic clergy of the Boston Dioceses: "If it takes a village to raise a child, then it takes a village to abuse one. " Translation: corruption is systematic, not the actions of one or two bad apples, because it takes many people remaining silent and accepting such gross malfeasance on the part of an institution to which many people otherwise entrust their faith.

I think the same is true for this kind of systematic corruption and malfeasance at NAIA and beyond. The Lone Ranger is not going to fix this. This problem is held in place by culture and the willing, if unwitting, acceptance of many Filipinos. Easy for me to say, as I sit in my secure home in the states banging away on a keyboard.

So, Soapy, a question for you: where's the paradox to be embraced here? Well, maybe the Inquirer's editors need to shrug off their own complacency and take a page out of the book written by the Boston Globe: find a way to challenge the system rather than the individuals. Which lets Soapy off the hook in the short term but also disrupts the low-stress, laid-back Philippine lifestyle and cheap p4p that Soapy claims to like. Soapy, get your stories straight.

Or at least lighten up a little. Oh yeah, I did, in USA politics.

Sam 14
04-07-16, 10:01
This problem is held in place by culture and the willing, if unwitting, acceptance of many Filipinos. That's true, it is just accepted. As you're banging on your keypad, I'm sweltering in Victoria Mall. I went to Giasano for a cup of coffee but it was sweltering in there too. One of the girls said "brownout". Instead of all the employees and customers raising hell about at least not having a big enough generator on the roof, it's just accepted like it's God's will. Like when things are always out of stock. The answer always is "no delivery". So since it's outside the parameters of anyone's control, all responsibility is removed from everyone.

So I'll just lighten up a little too. And the next brownout will be in a couple hours when someone sits on my face. :-)

PS. On the other hand, due to the drought, they're out of rice in Kidapawan. So the farmers organized a big protest. But instead of doing everything possible to get help, the mayor had the security forces open fire on them.

GoodEnough
04-07-16, 10:41
Yes, an encouraging sign. And they raise a scary specter about how much worse things might have been, for example, if organized criminals or terrorists had been part of the equation.

They were right to suggest that some prominent heads should fall, but that seems an incomplete solution. And the comparison to East Asian resignations under loss of face is misplaced. In East Asian countries resignations in these circumstances serve a deep collectivist cultural pressure to make things right so that others can remain standing without loss of dignity. But I suspect a firing under these circumstances in the Philippines has a scapegoating effect and little else.

There's a great line in the movie **Spotlight** about the systematic concealment of child sexual abuse by the Catholic clergy of the Boston Dioceses: "If it takes a village to raise a child, then it takes a village to abuse one. " Translation: corruption is systematic, not the actions of one or two bad apples, because it takes many people remaining silent and accepting such gross malfeasance on the part of an institution to which many people otherwise entrust their faith.

I think the same is true for this kind of systematic corruption and malfeasance at NAIA and beyond. The Lone Ranger is not going to fix this. This problem is held in place by culture and the willing, if unwitting, acceptance of many Filipinos. Easy for me to say, as I sit in my secure home in the states banging away on a keyboard.

So, Soapy, a question for you: where's the paradox to be embraced here? Well, maybe the Inquirer's editors need to shrug off their own complacency and take a page out of the book written by the Boston Globe: find a way to challenge the system rather than the individuals. Which lets Soapy off the hook in the short term but also disrupts the low-stress, laid-back Philippine lifestyle and cheap p4p that Soapy claims to like. Soapy, get your stories straight.

Or at least lighten up a little. Oh yeah, I did, in USA politics.I guess the only answer to retaining one's equilibrium here is to accept the things one cannot change, which is, admittedly a challenge. In Davao as of writing, we are now up to 4 hours of brownouts per day, and this 8 months after the commissioning of a power plant that was widely publicized as solving the power crisis. Given that the plant was designed and built by Black and Veetch, and tested continuously for about two months prior to commissioning, one can't help but marvel at the incompetence of the current operators who cannot keep a new, state-of-the-art plant running.

In Manila yesterday, it took me more than an hour to traverse the 7 kilometers between my office in Ortigas and the Fairmont in Makati, and at the end of the journey by private car, I was exhausted. I cannot even imagine what it must be like for those relying on what passes for public transport here. I read somewhere that the average worker in! Anila wastes 4-6 hours a day commuting to and from work.

Soapy, I don't think there's a paradox. There's just a dichotomy between the gentility and genuine decency of most Filipinos and their dystopian, corrupt and indifferent government.

GE.

WestCoast1
04-07-16, 12:45
SNIP retaining one's equilibrium here is to accept the things one cannot change, which is, admittedly a challenge.I was thinking of moving to phils. Now I will have to say the alcoholics prayer. . .

For a bit of vitriolic fun, visit: http://www.philippinefailblog.com/ for many foreigner's (living in phils) take on infrastructure and cultural issues. As they say, "Only in phils". And if it ain't broke, don't fix it (de vag).

GoodEnough
04-11-16, 03:47
Power cuts here in Davao now amount to as much as 8 hours a day. There's more than a little speculation that this has been carefully orchestrated to ensure that voters aren't surprised that the automatic voting machines don't work, which will mean paper ballots, manual counts and even more massive corruption to the process than is normally the case. I guess the fact that businesses in Mindanao are losing millions per day is irrelevant to the desperation of the sleaze ball politicians to hang in at any cost.

GE.

GoodEnough
04-11-16, 07:44
Simply amazing. The US continues to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) away hundreds of millions of dollars here for absolutely nothing. Zero. Nada. http://www.wsj.com/articles/soldier-deaths-raise-questions-about-effectiveness-of-philippines-counterterrorism-1460285852?mod=e2fb.

GE.

Wicked Roger
04-11-16, 09:26
Power cuts here in Davao now amount to as much as 8 hours a day. There's more than a little speculation that this has been carefully orchestrated to ensure that voters aren't surprised that the automatic voting machines don't work, which will mean paper ballots, manual counts and even more massive corruption to the process than is normally the case. I guess the fact that businesses in Mindanao are losing millions per day is irrelevant to the desperation of the sleaze ball politicians to hang in at any cost.

GE.Good observation GE.

Many I know ad speak with in Cebu say the election will be fixed somehow and this is one way that could be used. Usually before elections the power is never cut off a the politicians need the votes.

Even the OFWs I meet when traveling say the same thing. All suspect a 'fix' in favor of one person despite the polls now clearly showing others in the lead and some way behind.

PolyOrchid
04-11-16, 10:22
Nothing new here; been like this for yonks. What's amazing to me is that we actually get to witness the fall of an empire in our lifetime. And with the current list of likely presidential candidates, it's like an endless Saturday Night Live loop. Yippee, we're all going to die.

Fastpiston
04-13-16, 12:13
Nothing new here; been like this for yonks. What's amazing to me is that we actually get to witness the fall of an empire in our lifetime. And with the current list of likely presidential candidates, it's like an endless Saturday Night Live loop. Yippee, we're all going to die.The recent so called economic growth in the Philippines is basically due to massive money laundering through the banking system and export of cheap labor. Look at NAIA terminal 3 and one can get an understanding that the country simply does not have the ability to take on even minimal management skills. So be it, take it as it is and have zero expectations. My only fear in being in the Philippines is if they have a really major earthquake. The country will revert to total chaos, lawlessness and revert to the dark ages for several years. The only solution for foreigners is to be evacuated from the mayhem by foreign navies.

Wicked Roger
04-14-16, 04:41
Power cuts here in Davao now amount to as much as 8 hours a day. There's more than a little speculation that this has been carefully orchestrated to ensure that voters aren't surprised that the automatic voting machines don't work, which will mean paper ballots, manual counts and even more massive corruption to the process than is normally the case. I guess the fact that businesses in Mindanao are losing millions per day is irrelevant to the desperation of the sleaze ball politicians to hang in at any cost.

GE.GE,

This is a good read from today's Inquirer giving some figure around the brownouts. Seems ore to come and longer. Make me wonder why a new plant need to stop cite already ad more are planned. Am no engineer but the latest plant was commissioned last year I think. I know another gent who was telling me he is thinking of leaving Davao although he likes it a lot as the brownouts impact his business.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/779467/brownout-economic-cost-p400m-a-day

GoodEnough
04-16-16, 03:06
The abuses of power, government indifference and the panic of the established political elite over the possibility of a Duterte win are all increasing, as is the possibility of election-related violence: http://opinion.inquirer.net/94315/cruel-or-plain-mad.

GE.

Red Kilt
04-16-16, 09:54
Most of the negative and fear-mongering posts on ISG in the last couple of weeks are Mindanao-specific.

There have been zero brown-outs in my condo in Manila. Nada.

Nobody in Manila (at least in my circle) seems to be concerned about riots in the street if Duterte wins (or if he doesn't win).

Mindanao is not a litmus test (or bell wether or whatever metaphor you want to use) for the rest of the Philippines.

Anyone visiting the Philippines in the next few weeks just stay in Luzon and Visayas and you'll be fine.

GoodEnough
04-18-16, 09:55
RK and others who think that perhaps I'm over-reacting to the potential for violence might want to take a look at this article from today's "Inquirer. " http://opinion.inquirer.net/94338/mindanaos-summer-discontent.

Red Kilt
04-18-16, 13:53
RK and others who think that perhaps I'm over-reacting to the potential for violence might want to take a look at this article from today's "Inquirer. " http://opinion.inquirer.net/94338/mindanaos-summer-discontent.GE.

The heading for my post was "The problems are in Mindanao".

Your link confirms it.

The article is all about Mindanao.

Dg8787
04-25-16, 06:07
By the latest polls Duterte is in the lead with 34% to second place Poe with 22%. VP race is with Marcos in the lead with 29% and Duterte running mate Cayetano is 4th place with 16%. Wtf. Bi-polar voting.

A vote for Duterte is a vote to clean up corruption. Many people here still believe F. Marcos was a great president and times were better then. Also Marcos, Jr. Has clean hands! The Marcos machine hands out enough rice to enough poor voters to get the votes.

I wouldn't be surprised if Marcos is elected VP, that sooner than later he will try to elevate himself to President.

AgentOrange
04-25-16, 13:00
The good thing about a Duterte presidency is that he is a publicly known womanizer.

He supports prostitution as long as it is behind closed doors.

Fastpiston
04-26-16, 00:30
The good thing about a Duterte presidency is that he is a publicly known womanizer.

He supports prostitution as long as it is behind closed doors.An important plus for Duterte is that he is not a member of the ruling rich clans that have ruled the Philippines for decades and bled the country with monopolies and laws protecting their vested interests.

FreebieFan
04-26-16, 01:39
An important plus for Duterte is that he is not a member of the ruling rich clans that have ruled the Philippines for decades and bled the country with monopolies and laws protecting their vested interests.One of the most successful Presidents in recent time in Philippines was Fidel Ramos. An ex military man, who was also a protestant. He became successful for solving a power problem that meant every city had brownouts aka blackouts, and for introducing a measure of population control. The catholic church hated him for that but he prospered and even floated the idea of having a second term which would have meant a change in the constitution.

He was aboe to work with not necessarily against the big entrenched families (and an inquiring mind might also ask how he could afford to own 3 houses in Ayala Alabang on a military pension and presidents salary but maybe that's another story).

Duterte has no links to the entrenched families that control everything but he would need to find a way to work with them. Think Sy, Tan, Gokongwei, Razon, Aboitiz, Gatchalian, Yuengco, Ayala etc.

Binay and Ayalas fought every day about everything as both claimed a sort of ownership of Makati. Ayalas now say they were the good guys and the winners.

Duterte would have big battle to try and change anything. Its been in place for a very long time so his chance of success isn't great.

Even in China where everything happens once the President says, the anti corruption fight has been in place for 3 long years, with many arrested and imprisoned, and every day they arrest and imprison more. Its like an endless deluge of people arrested. Govt staf can't play golf, can't stay in 5 star hotels, can't accect gifts more than US $25. In such a disciplined country its so hard to eradicate corruption. In such a laissez faire anything goes country as Philippines his chance of success is tiny. His first problem is hoping that the very cabinet members he appoints to do his bidding are squeaky clean. And they rarely are.

Questor55
04-26-16, 20:29
An important plus for Duterte is that he is not a member of the ruling rich clans that have ruled the Philippines for decades and bled the country with monopolies and laws protecting their vested interests.Duterte threatens the vested interests of most of the power elites in the country. Assassinations are a fundamental and frequent response to anyone opposing their interests. If he actually gets elected, the risk will not decrease. The Vice President is only one bullet away from assuming the Presidency.

GoodEnough
04-27-16, 10:54
Since 2002 and the end of 2015 the US has provided more than $440 million in military assistance finding to this country, and most of it has had no effect. Some readers here may find this article from the New York Times interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/world/asia/abu-sayyaf-philippines-kidnappings.html.

GE.

GoodEnough
04-27-16, 11:00
One of the most successful Presidents in recent time in Philippines was Fidel Ramos. An ex military man, who was also a protestant. He became successful for solving a power problem that meant every city had brownouts aka blackouts, and for introducing a measure of population control. The catholic church hated him for that but he prospered and even floated the idea of having a second term which would have meant a change in the constitution.

He was aboe to work with not necessarily against the big entrenched families (and an inquiring mind might also ask how he could afford to own 3 houses in Ayala Alabang on a military pension and presidents salary but maybe that's another story).

Duterte has no links to the entrenched families that control everything but he would need to find a way to work with them. Think Sy, Tan, Gokongwei, Razon, Aboitiz, Gatchalian, Yuengco, Ayala etc.

Binay and Ayalas fought every day about everything as both claimed a sort of ownership of Makati. Ayalas now say they were the good guys and the winners.

Duterte would have big battle to try and change anything. Its been in place for a very long time so his chance of success isn't great.

Even in China where everything happens once the President says, the anti corruption fight has been in place for 3 long years, with many arrested and imprisoned, and every day they arrest and imprison more. Its like an endless deluge of people arrested. Govt staf can't play golf, can't stay in 5 star hotels, can't accect gifts more than US $25. In such a disciplined country its so hard to eradicate corruption. In such a laissez faire anything goes country as Philippines his chance of success is tiny. His first problem is hoping that the very cabinet members he appoints to do his bidding are squeaky clean. And they rarely are.I agree with the points FF raises about Ramos. Some believe that, in refusing the order to fire on Filipino citizens during EDSA I, he was the true hero of people power. I disagree however about the difficulties Duterte might encounter working with the monetary elite in this country. Several of the "44. Families" are in fact, supporting his presidential bid. Evidently some of the, cat least are also sick of the way things are.

GE.

GoodEnough
05-10-16, 08:19
Today is a rather extraordinary day in the history of the country in that, for the very first time, the winning Presidential candidate is from Mindanao. The whole city of Davao appears beyond joyous, and expectations for fundamental, lasting change are sky high. I've been watching ANC, the English news channel like a political junkie, which I am not, or at least not usually. I'm somewhat in shock in that I had thought the political elite here, determined to install Roxas, would do whatever it had to do to ensure his election, even if that meant committing major fraud which might lead to widespread street violence. I was wrong in both counts. Instead Duterte won by more than 6 million votes, and there will be no widespread unrest. Perhaps the country took a giant step during the past two days; surely I've never seen such excitement and hope here in Davao.

Duterte has said that he will seek approval to hold a constitutional convention to create a core document establishing a Federal, parliamentary form of government, which could in itself inject massive change into the political realities of the Philippines. Altogether it's been an amazing couple of days.

GE.

Red Kilt
05-10-16, 08:37
Today is a rather extraordinary day in the history of the country. . . <SNIP>. . I agree with GE in that the whole thing has been "extraordinary".

As a non-voter but someone with a heavily-vested interest (I own a condo in Manila), I am pleased that there was a clear outcome that seemingly cannot be challenged so everyone must accept it.

I am glad that someone who has non-traditional ideas has been elected.

However, like millions of others inside and outside of the country, I will adopt a "wait and see" policy about what the next few days / weeks bring.

I can only hope that he will listen to informed opinion about some of his misguided propositions (for example, in education), and that he will not ride "gung-ho" over some of the carefully crafted recent policies.

GoodEnough
05-10-16, 08:43
I agree with GE in that the whole thing has been "extraordinary".

As a non-voter but someone with a heavily-vested interest (I own a condo in Manila), I am pleased that there was a clear outcome that seemingly cannot be challenged so everyone must accept it.

I am glad that someone who has non-traditional ideas has been elected.

However, like millions of others inside and outside of the country, I will adopt a "wait and see" policy about what the next few days / weeks bring.

I can only hope that he will listen to informed opinion about some of his misguided propositions (for example, in education), and that he will not ride "gung-ho" over some of the carefully crafted recent policies.RK, according to my significant other, who is a rapt Duterte supporter, he has mentioned more than once his intention to double the salaries of teachers and soldiers to be financed through a lottery. That's all I've heard about his comments / policies regarding education.

GE.

Wicked Roger
05-10-16, 12:30
Today is a rather extraordinary day in the history of the country in that, for the very first time, the winning Presidential candidate is from Mindanao.
I'm somewhat in shock in that I had thought the political elite here, determined to install Roxas, would do whatever it had to do to ensure his election, even if that meant committing major fraud
GE.My friends are also very happy in Cebu. Their concerns are more the VP. Double edged sword so to speak. They feel that the back door 'fraud' for the LP to gain control is via Leni Robredo winning the VP race followed by some way to impeach Duterte and then make her president under the control of the rich elite.

This may be far fetched but even Bongbong Marcos stated this in the media.

Double edged sword for some is because while they hate the rich elite to impeach the new president they really don't want a Marcos anywhere near the presidency as cannot forgive the elder Marcos for his sins (which to them greatly outweigh any benefits he brought to the country).

But those I speak with are generally happy and want to see real change and a drop in crime / drugs. Perhaps if the new president is true to his word the Manila Bay will be full of dead bodies.

D Cups
05-10-16, 14:39
Today is a rather extraordinary day in the history of the country in that, for the very first time, the winning Presidential candidate is from Mindanao. The whole city of Davao appears beyond joyous, and expectations for fundamental, lasting change are sky high. I've been watching ANC, the English news channel like a political junkie, which I am not, or at least not usually. I'm somewhat in shock in that I had thought the political elite here, determined to install Roxas, would do whatever it had to do to ensure his election, even if that meant committing major fraud which might lead to widespread street violence. I was wrong in both counts. Instead Duterte won by more than 6 million votes, and there will be no widespread unrest. Perhaps the country took a giant step during the past two days; surely I've never seen such excitement and hope here in Davao.

Duterte has said that he will seek approval to hold a constitutional convention to create a core document establishing a Federal, parliamentary form of government, which could in itself inject massive change into the political realities of the Philippines. Altogether it's been an amazing couple of days.

GE.Interesting. Are they saying anything about the five USA Military bases proposed for the PI in the Military Times?

Red Kilt
05-10-16, 15:02
RK, according to my significant other, who is a rapt Duterte supporter, he has mentioned more than once his intention to double the salaries of teachers and soldiers to be financed through a lottery. That's all I've heard about his comments / policies regarding education.

GE
I am referring to his intention to stop the K - 12 initiative until the DepED is "ready". They will never, ever be "ready", so it has to push through now.

If K - 12 is stopped or even delayed, Phils will be the ONLY country left in the world with a K - 10 education system, and that will mean that the country will start plummeting to the depths of despair, and I, although a staunch optimist in the past, will jump off that wagon and become as pessimistic as everyone else.

There will be no hope.

I can only hope that his pre-election comments were the "shoot-from-the-hip" comments and wiser counsel in the next few weeks will convince him to keep K-12 going.

Fastpiston
05-11-16, 02:20
Interesting. Are they saying anything about the five USA Military bases proposed for the PI in the Military Times?Not surprised about result. The outgoing guy could not even manage NAIA. We will see what gives next. Delighted to hear new man is a Viagra man and has proper interests!

SergeantRay
05-11-16, 03:41
GE
I am referring to his intention to stop the K - 12 initiative until the DepED is "ready". They will never, ever be "ready", so it has to push through now.

If K - 12 is stopped or even delayed, Phils will be the ONLY country left in the world with a K - 10 education system, and that will mean that the country will start plummeting to the depths of despair, and I, although a staunch optimist in the past, will jump off that wagon and become as pessimistic as everyone else.

There will be no hope.

I can only hope that his pre-election comments were the "shoot-from-the-hip" comments and wiser counsel in the next few weeks will convince him to keep K-12 going.Every year the schools are overcrowded. Every time I come to the PI in June every single frickin' back-to-school issue of the newspaper features classrooms meeting outdoors, bathrooms not working, students scrambling to pay bills, etc. How does more of the same improve the system? If it's already stretched thin, how does adding more help?

Current college graduates can hardly get jobs. How does 2 more years help?

SergeantRay
05-11-16, 03:47
As a long-time traveler to Cebu, I feel a major factor in Duterte's favor is the fact that Philippine politics is Manila / Tagalog-centric. I've asked Filipino friends, "When was the last time a Bisayan was elected president?" They mentioned Sergio Osmena, who was elected in 1946. He was a Cebuano, whose grandson was just re-elected mayor of Cebu. Bisayans have been neglected and ignored for so long that a credible Bisayan candidate was bound to receive huge support.

Red Kilt
05-11-16, 09:09
As a long-time traveler to Cebu, I feel a major factor in Duterte's favor is the fact that Philippine politics is Manila / Tagalog-centric. I've asked Filipino friends, "When was the last time a Bisayan was elected president?" They mentioned Sergio Osmena, who was elected in 1946. He was a Cebuano, whose grandson was just re-elected mayor of Cebu. Bisayans have been neglected and ignored for so long that a credible Bisayan candidate was bound to receive huge support.Duterte comes from Davao, Mindanao. Although he was born in Southern Leyte, he was raised virtually all of his life in Davao (his father was a former Governor)

The heat map of where the votes were distributed shows that the Visayas voted overwhelmingly for Roxas not Duterte, with Mindanao being exclusively Duterte.

Your basic premise of Imperial Manila (Luzon) being favored in the past is essentially true but I doubt that Duterte canl suddenly distribute largesse to regions outside of Manila. History shows that the region of origin of previous Presidents did not make much difference. Ilocos in the north benefited in relatively minor ways (new roads, bridges, irrigation systems etc if you consider the influence of Marcos) but the infrastructure is still generally poor around Pampanga (Arroyo) or Tarlac (Aquino) so there has not been any noticeable influence on fund re-distribution in those areas.

AskeAske
05-11-16, 09:26
Early home from the bars in the future, guys.

Golfinho
05-11-16, 10:51
They feel that the back door 'fraud' for the LP to gain control is via Leni Robredo winning the VP race followed by some way to impeach Duterte and then make her president under the control of the rich elite.
This may be far fetched but even Bongbong Marcos stated this in the media.CNN Philippines reporting had the vote tally at 34% counted with Bong Bong ahead by 900,000 votes. Then several hours later, he's behind. Seemed inconceivable.

Amadeuss
05-11-16, 21:04
Every year the schools are overcrowded. Every time I come to the PI in June every single frickin' back-to-school issue of the newspaper features classrooms meeting outdoors, bathrooms not working, students scrambling to pay bills, etc. How does more of the same improve the system? If it's already stretched thin, how does adding more help?

Current college graduates can hardly get jobs. How does 2 more years help?Whers chaos, there are opportunities.

Where we get our girls from if all would be smooth as silk.

Let the country remain in disarray, please.

Jack4765
05-11-16, 21:17
I was there in Angeles last week and asked a trike driver who he was going to drive around after midnight. He was naive enough to assure me there would still be plenty of customers looking for rides after the bars close at midnight.

I wanted to ask him if he was joking or insane.

SergeantRay
05-12-16, 01:09
Duterte comes from Davao, Mindanao. Although he was born in Southern Leyte, he was raised virtually all of his life in Davao (his father was a former Governor)

The heat map of where the votes were distributed shows that the Visayas voted overwhelmingly for Roxas not Duterte, with Mindanao being exclusively Duterte.

Your basic premise of Imperial Manila (Luzon) being favored in the past is essentially true but I doubt that Duterte canl suddenly distribute largesse to regions outside of Manila. History shows that the region of origin of previous Presidents did not make much difference. Ilocos in the north benefited in relatively minor ways (new roads, bridges, irrigation systems etc if you consider the influence of Marcos) but the infrastructure is still generally poor around Pampanga (Arroyo) or Tarlac (Aquino) so there has not been any noticeable influence on fund re-distribution in those areas.Red Kilt,

According to this heat map (http://bilangpilipino.com/presidential-heat-map) Cebu, Bohol, and Leyte went for Duterte. Duterte came in second in Negros.

I would agree that winning is one thing, overcoming the focus on Manila and the capital region is another thing entirely.

Red Kilt
05-12-16, 04:17
Red Kilt,

According to this heat map (http://bilangpilipino.com/presidential-heat-map) Cebu, Bohol, and Leyte went for Duterte. Duterte came in second in Negros.

I would agree that winning is one thing, overcoming the focus on Manila and the capital region is another thing entirely.That's a more recent heat map than I had seen but the colors also conceal much closer totals between candidates.

I think the most significant and, for me, surprising statistic is the landslide vote Duterte obtained in Metro Manila and surrounding provinces (Bulacan, Cavite, Rizal, Pampanga etc) and the very low vote obtained by Binay in this zone.

Clearly, filipinos tend to support their own ethnicities. Binay is an Ilokano, and they overwhelmingly supported him.

One can only hope that he will govern for ALL of the Philippines and his government reforms will mean better distribution of resources to all areas.

Sxxxx
05-12-16, 08:10
I was there in Angeles last week and asked a trike driver who he was going to drive around after midnight. He was naive enough to assure me there would still be plenty of customers looking for rides after the bars close at midnight.

I wanted to ask him if he was joking or insane.I was resident monger Ermita 1970's when Marcos ruled the waves.

His 12 midnight curfew meant everyone, foreigners, taxi drivers whoever were off the streets and inside their house / building by 12 midnight. The curfew does not mean you go home at 12 midnight, the curfew meant then you were AT home by 12 midnight. No movement, other than police, ambulances, folks going to and from airport etc, essential movement, after 12 midnight. Police enforced it, a great time for them to make money with transgressors.

Duturte seems to be a fan of Marcos, so suppose his curfew will be similar / same as Ferdies.

Understand, you do not decide to go back to your hotel at 12 midnight, you are already inside your hotel by 12 midnight. Girls etc had to be home by 12 midnight. Get it?

X Man
05-12-16, 15:36
As much as I detest the idea now, those were my best times in Philippines. A naughty working gal had to find a barfine before midnight. The price and product on offer got better and better as midnight approached. I got some good tail and usually had enough sleep to start work in the morning. Yep, in those days I had to go to work in the morning.


I was resident monger Ermita 1970's when Marcos ruled the waves.

His 12 midnight curfew meant everyone, foreigners, taxi drivers whoever were off the streets and inside their house / building by 12 midnight. The curfew does not mean you go home at 12 midnight, the curfew meant then you were AT home by 12 midnight. No movement, other than police, ambulances, folks going to and from airport etc, essential movement, after 12 midnight. Police enforced it, a great time for them to make money with transgressors.

Duturte seems to be a fan of Marcos, so suppose his curfew will be similar / same as Ferdies.

Understand, you do not decide to go back to your hotel at 12 midnight, you are already inside your hotel by 12 midnight. Girls etc had to be home by 12 midnight. Get it?

Sxxxx
05-13-16, 03:00
As much as I detest the idea now, those were my best times in Philippines. A naughty working gal had to find a barfine before midnight. The price and product on offer got better and better as midnight approached. I got some good tail and usually had enough sleep to start work in the morning. Yep, in those days I had to go to work in the morning.Yes, "when handed a lemon, make a lemonade".

Those with a fragment of imagination will do well during Duturtes reign. Runners? A thing of the past, they have to stay until at least sunrise, LOL.

Hutsori
05-13-16, 03:28
Duturte seems to be a fan of Marcos, so suppose his curfew will be similar / same as Ferdies.

My understanding is the curfew is for minors - I haven't seen any news reports stating otherwise. Bars and karaoke / videoke will no longer be allowed to stay open until dawn or 24x7.

An important segment of 2016's Philippine economy is the BPO sector, and that's 24 x7 operations. And then there are the support businesses such as food service and transportation which earn their livelihoods from those BPO workers. I doubt Duterte will do anything to disrupt those operations. His focus is on unlawfulness and those sectors of Philippine society he believes contribute to it, such as late night drinking.

WrinkleFree
05-13-16, 04:22
I've got a schedule from June 8-12th and planning for Angeles city. It seems he will take office around June 30th. It's a very short and cheap plane ride for me, but does anyone think there will be major changes / problems the weeks before he takes office?

GoodEnough
05-13-16, 04:47
My understanding is the curfew is for minors - I haven't seen any news reports stating otherwise. Bars and karaoke / videoke will no longer be allowed to stay open until dawn or 24x7.

An important segment of 2016's Philippine economy is the BPO sector, and that's 24 x7 operations. And then there are the support businesses such as food service and transportation which earn their livelihoods from those BPO workers. I doubt Duterte will do anything to disrupt those operations. His focus is on unlawfulness and those sectors of Philippine society he believes contribute to it, such as late night drinking.Exactly right Huts. If the curfew is imposed, minors will have to be off the streets by 10 PM, and bars / restaurants will not be able to sell alcohol between midnight and 8 AM. That said, discrete service post the cutoff deadline seems to be openly tolerated here, and I routinely drink with friends at my favorite restaurant in Davao past the witching hour.

I'm quite sure that the new President has no intention of imposing martial law-like curfews.

GE.

Amanut
05-13-16, 04:54
Meanwhile the bureaucracy is busy coming up with a new slogan for the country. LOL.

WestCoast1
05-13-16, 07:15
Meanwhile the bureaucracy is busy coming up with a new slogan for the country. LOL.You mean it will stop being more fun in Philippines? Hell, I will have to stop going there to feed the pinay some tube steak.

Sxxxx
05-13-16, 07:54
My understanding is the curfew is for minors - I haven't seen any news reports stating otherwise. Well, I am a minor, a minor player, living in a shoe box, LOL.

Lucky DS and other major players. Money talks.

Oh, for the good old days, Martial Law, Curfews, P100 for an all night with an attractive waitress. Can Duturte bring back the good old days?

Mogwai
05-13-16, 08:56
Meanwhile the bureaucracy is busy coming up with a new slogan for the country. LOL.It's more fascism in the Philippines?

WestCoast1
05-13-16, 13:36
And then there is this regarding the new prez. From The Daily Show (Noah Trevor). Watch from 6:20 to 9:30:

http://www.cc.com/full-episodes/d3n5ym/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-may-11--2016---nate-silver-season-21-ep-21107

Dg8787
05-13-16, 17:36
Last month I spent 4 days in Davao for the first time. I was impressed by the cleanliness and orderly traffic upon arrival. Plenty of taxis lined up at the airport. Taxis use the meters everywhere that I went and never once tried to scam me. I used the jeepney a few times and the riders were very friendly and helpful to make sure I got off at the right place.

On the second day I hired a taxi for 5 hours to drive around Davao and stopped at a few places for lunch and shopping. Everywhere in Davao was clean and safe. I had to get a 30 day visa extension so we stopped by the BI in Davao. BI people were very nice and helpful. Came back with required photo and copies of my passport and they processed it in 15 minutes.

Davao has nice newer malls and hotels with more in the pipeline.

Judging by what I saw DU30 has done an unbelievable job in cleaning up this city.

Red Kilt
05-14-16, 02:21
<SNIP>

Judging by what I saw DU30 has done an unbelievable job in cleaning up this city.Everything you said is correct Dg.

The question is: Can he transfer this achievement towards cleaning up the whole country? I reckon he will give it a good shot but there will be a lot of people "offended" by it, especially those who lose their illegal livelihood.

I hope he does.

We live in interesting times.

Mogwai
05-14-16, 08:47
Everywhere in Davao was clean and safe. That's what many Germans said about Germany as well, when Hitler ruled the country. And we all know the price they (and a lot of other people) paid for that.

Mogwai
05-14-16, 08:51
I reckon he will give it a good shot but there will be a lot of people "offended" by it, especially those who lose their illegal livelihood.Innocent people who are killed by his death squads will be 'offended' too.

Hutsori
05-14-16, 09:13
That's what many Germans said about Germany as well, when Hitler ruled the country. And we all know the price they (and a lot of other people) paid for that.Authoritarian leaders aren't exclusively Hitler. Singapore and South Korea were well served by Lee and Park, respectively. Lee did outstandingly well in rooting out corruption and attracting investment. Park tolerated some corruption provided industrial and social development goals were met, and they were. Franco kept Spain backward. Burma's SLORC achieved neither peace nor development.

I very much doubt Duterte will become a Pol Pot or Hitler, but I also don't see him being Lee Kuan Yew. The Philippines needs a development goal greater than building more mega malls and condos.

Mogwai
05-14-16, 09:51
I very much doubt Duterte will become a Pol Pot or Hitler Maybe he won't become a Pol Pot or Hitler, who are among the worst dictators earth has known, but I won't be surprised if he comes close.
I mean, death squads? Really? Killing suspects just like that, no questions asked? Do you think that's ok?

And do you think it's ok that he will ignore the parlement if they don't agree with his plans and methods?

Wicked Roger
05-14-16, 11:55
Maybe he won't become a Pol Pot or Hitler, who are among the worst dictators earth has known, but I won't be surprised if he comes close.
I mean, death squads? Really? Killing suspects just like that, no questions asked? Do you think that's ok?

And do you think it's ok that he will ignore the parlement if they don't agree with his plans and methods?Yes possibly to most of that.

If you listen to the locals this is exactly the reason why they voted for him. Even OFWs I speak with say this -w ant him to 'clean up' the 'shameful' manners of the rich elite.

I doubt he will personally pull the trigger etc, but he as said on more than 1 occasion he will close Congress. Something that many netziens seem to support.

Must understand their mind and ways Mog and I dot mean the girl we are shagging tonight. Those I speak with are very angry with the Luzon dynasties etc.

WestCoast1
05-14-16, 15:42
And do you think it's ok that he will ignore the parlement if they don't agree with his plans and methods?I don't think its OK, but its often done by heads of state. Just look at the last half-dozen (or so) US presidents; many of them had hidden plans enacted without the direct knowledge of congress or the people. Sometimes their methods are overt, other times covert. The list of atrocities committed by heads of state (against either his own people or foreigners, knowingly or unknowingly) is not limited to the few famous ones (ie, Hitler). If the incoming phils prez does ignore his parliament, then he does so standing on tall shoulders.

Dg8787
05-14-16, 15:54
I seriously doubt Dutere will be a dictator. He is what the people of Philippines need to survive. The wealthy families have already built malls and businesses in Davao. I suspect it was a much better experience for them to conduct business in Davao than any other city.

No doubt he will have a hard time rooting out corruption on a national scale. I suspect they will just lay low for a while to see who gets the axe first and how.

GoodEnough
05-14-16, 17:49
Maybe he won't become a Pol Pot or Hitler, who are among the worst dictators earth has known, but I won't be surprised if he comes close.
I mean, death squads? Really? Killing suspects just like that, no questions asked? Do you think that's ok?

And do you think it's ok that he will ignore the parlement if they don't agree with his plans and methods?I continue to be bemused by those who--knowing nothing about living in Davao, and very little about the socio-political history of the Philippines--express deep concern over alleged human rights violations, and the likelihood of President elect Duterte becoming a dictator. The simple facts on the ground here are that Davao is a thoroughly peaceful city with an extraordinarily low crime rate; it is booming economically has radically improved urban services, and has accomplished all of this with zero assistance from Imperial Manila. If you were to ask the average Davaoeño if he or she would prefer to live in the pre-Duterte era of random slaughter in the streets, a faltering economy and a thoroughly corrupt, exploitative local bureaucracy, I doubt you would find many responding in the affirmative. I'm also reasonably sure that if Davao residents felt oppressed, they would not have freely given more than 95% of their presidential votes to their Mayor, who is a beloved figure.

It's easy, however specious to judge the concept of "human rights" from the somewhat self-righteous perspective of Westerners and others who come from countries with viable, equitable justice systems. The Philippines however, has no functional, equitable system. Instead, it offers a thoroughly corrupted pretext of justice epitomized by judges largely available to the highest bidder, whose decisions--often delivered years after complaints are filed--are constrained by political, clan and tribal loyalties. I have no idea, after living for well more than a decade in Davao, if the so-called death squads are urban legend or fact. I do know however, that in the absence of a functional justice system, perhaps alternatives must be found, and that means must be found to enhance the human rights of ordinary citizens.

I find it somewhat remarkable that the self-righteous crusaders for human rights don't appear terribly concerned about the human rights of victims of crime: those killed in the street for the sake of a few pesos, those robbed at knifepoint in jeepneys for the sake of a cell phone, or those women raped by thugs who know they can act with impunity. Such acts as the aforementioned do not happen with any regularity in Davao, where the streets are among the safest I've ever walked; a city in which taxi drivers invariably use their meters, where foreigners are rarely if ever scammed and where citizens are encouraged to report any bribery attempts directly to the Mayor.

Filipinos have been getting screwed by the ruling elites for 500 years. I believe the overwhelming choice of Duterte suggests that they've finally had enough and that they believe he holds out a promise of radical, much needed change. I also feel strongly that his election marked a potentially significant step forward for this country and is the most positive sign I've witnessed during the time I've lived here. Oh, and by the way Mogwai, this country doesn't have a parliament.

GE.

Wicked Roger
05-14-16, 20:10
I continue to be bemused by those who--knowing nothing about living in Davao, and very little about the socio-political history of the Philippines--express deep concern over alleged human rights violations, and the likelihood of President elect Duterte becoming a dictator. The simple facts on the ground here are that Davao is a thoroughly peaceful city with an extraordinarily low crime rate; it is booming economically has radically improved urban services, and has accomplished all of this with zero assistance from Imperial Manila. If you were to ask the average Davaoeo if he or she would prefer to live in the pre-Duterte era of random slaughter in the streets, a faltering economy and a thoroughly corrupt, exploitative local bureaucracy, I doubt you would find many responding in the affirmative. I'm also reasonably sure that if Davao residents felt oppressed, they would not have freely given more than 95% of their presidential votes to their Mayor, who is a beloved figure.

Oh, and by the way Mogwai, this country doesn't have a parliament.

GE.Good FR GE, well articulated and from someone who knows and speaks with locals every day. Of those I have met in Cebu and on my travels (eg air line crew, OFWs etc) all voted for him. If I were to ask them what about the human rights, the so called death squads etc they are in favor of him cleaning up the streets and the rich elite (plus the judiciary. Forgot to mention that the last time). They point to Davao as a 'model' city and those who come from there are proud of what he has done. They speak of the unbounded corruption and how the very rich can find reasons o bailed on non bailable offenses and find it shameful.

As you said trying to impose western democratic idea ad values in the Philippines is somewhat frustrating. It pretends to be such but the ruling families make sure it is for show. Look at the Arab world and what Bush started back in 2003 and proclaiming 'democracy' in Iraq. Look where the world is now with those ideals.

SergeantRay
05-14-16, 23:07
I find it somewhat remarkable that the self-righteous crusaders for human rights don't appear terribly concerned about the human rights of victims of crime: those killed in the street for the sake of a few pesos, those robbed at knifepoint in jeepneys for the sake of a cell phone, or those women raped by thugs who know they can act with impunity. Such acts as the aforementioned do not happen with any regularity in Davao, where the streets are among the safest I've ever walked; a city in which taxi drivers invariably use their meters, where foreigners are rarely if ever scammed and where citizens are encouraged to report any bribery attempts directly to the Mayor.

Filipinos have been getting screwed by the ruling elites for 500 years. I believe the overwhelming choice of Duterte suggests that they've finally had enough and that they believe he holds out a promise of radical, much needed change. I also feel strongly that his election marked a potentially significant step forward for this country and is the most positive sign I've witnessed during the time I've lived here. Oh, and by the way Mogwai, this country doesn't have a parliament.

GE.My ex-wife is related to the former vice mayor of a large Filipino city. There was a rash of taxi drivers robbed and murdered late at night. With official behind-the-scenes sanction, a few robbers turned up dead on the outskirts of town. The taxi robberies stopped. There is a history of "salvaging" in the Philippines.

More real to many Filipinos are the senseless crimes where people are murdered, or raped and murdered, over nothing, like the guy who bludgeoned his sister-in-law to death and dumped her nude body in the canal, because he was a drug (shabu) addict and she told his mother about his drug use.

Despite the 6% GDP growth too many Filipinos are stuck in poverty. If it weren't for overseas foreign workers and the number of Filipinas married to foreigners whose income supports the country, the situation would be even worse.

Ikksman
05-15-16, 03:27
Maybe he won't become a Pol Pot or Hitler, who are among the worst dictators earth has known, but I won't be surprised if he comes close.
I mean, death squads? Really? Killing suspects just like that, no questions asked? Do you think that's ok...I totally disagree with your opinions (and surely Stalin and Mao were far worse). And death squads? What a quaint idea!

Step one is to set up investigative teams to charge all the officials and businessmen found guilty of corruption. Start with the big ones (the Chinese call them the 'tigers' and many 'flies' will flee or clean up their act). Hand out severe prison sentences to the guilty and recover their ill-gotten gains. Charge and penalize or imprison police and military officials who don't investigate crimes in a prompt and thorough manner. Equally important is to ensure that the legal system is cleansed and the corrupt judges are retired.

Another advantage of this approach is the ever suffering ordinary people will love their democratically elected leader more and more as they witness the billions of US $ seized from the corrupt families used to help build a more healthy and prosperous nation.

There are always solutions to problems if one has the will (and without becoming a Pol Pot or Hitler).

I admit that the perennial problem that power tends to corrupt will always exist. I also admit that the leaders will need efficient and effective security and personal bodyguard personnel. For example Chinese President Xi Jinping has had at least 2 attempts on his life since 2013 by his political opponents (the Jiang Zemin faction), because of his "three vices" campaign (corruption, drugs and gambling).

Mogwai
05-15-16, 08:56
I have no idea, after living for well more than a decade in Davao, if the so-called death squads are urban legend or fact. I think it's quite obvious they are a fact. Or do you think Duterte scared all criminals away by asking politely 'can you please leave this city?


I do know however, that in the absence of a functional justice system, perhaps alternatives must be found, and that means must be found to enhance the human rights of ordinary citizens.I agree that drastic measures are inevitable but there are other ways than death squads. Clean up the justice system first (but not with a death squad, LOL) so suspects can at least get a fair trial. Maybe they can re-impose the death penalty if that's what the majority of the Filipino's want.


I find it somewhat remarkable that the self-righteous crusaders for human rights don't appear terribly concerned about the human rights of victims of crime: those killed in the street for the sake of a few pesos, those robbed at knifepoint in jeepneys for the sake of a cell phone, or those women raped by thugs who know they can act with impunity. Such acts as the aforementioned do not happen with any regularity in Davao, where the streets are among the safest I've ever walked; a city in which taxi drivers invariably use their meters, where foreigners are rarely if ever scammed and where citizens are encouraged to report any bribery attempts directly to the Mayor.Of course I'm concerned about the human rights of victims as well. But to take justice in your own hands and fight crime with crime is a crime as well. What is the price Davao paid (and is still paying?) for all that safety? How many innocent people were killed by the death squads? How many parents lost an innocent son or daughter? It's just not right. But I know most people, including you I guess, don't care as long as it wasn't THEIR child who was murdered.


Oh, and by the way Mogwai, this country doesn't have a parliament.OK it's a congress, whatever. Or were you being sarcastic?

To summarize my point of view: I don't believe 'strong men' (as we call them in Holland) like Duterte are the answer to deal with problems. Just like Donald Trump is not the right man for the USA and Geert Wilders is not the right man for Holland. The cure is worse than the disease.

Mogwai
05-15-16, 09:19
I don't think its OK, but its often done by heads of state. Just look at the last half-dozen (or so) US presidents; many of them had hidden plans enacted without the direct knowledge of congress or the people. Sometimes their methods are overt, other times covert. The list of atrocities committed by heads of state (against either his own people or foreigners, knowingly or unknowingly) is not limited to the few famous ones (ie, Hitler). If the incoming phils prez does ignore his parliament, then he does so standing on tall shoulders.I know Westy. If you look closely most (if not all) so called democratic and civilized countries are not that democratic and civilized at all.

So yes, maybe Duterte gets away with it if the majority of the Filipino's keep supporting him.

Hutsori
05-15-16, 11:32
It's easy, however specious to judge the concept of "human rights" from the somewhat self-righteous perspective of Westerners and others who come from countries with viable, equitable justice systems. The Philippines however, has no functional, equitable system. Instead, it offers a thoroughly corrupted pretext of justice epitomized by judges largely available to the highest bidder, whose decisions--often delivered years after complaints are filed--are constrained by political, clan and tribal loyalties. .

I find it somewhat remarkable that the self-righteous crusaders for human rights don't appear terribly concerned about the human rights of victims of crime: those killed in the street for the sake of a few pesos, those robbed at knifepoint in jeepneys for the sake of a cell phone, or those women raped by thugs who know they can act with impunity.

Filipinos have been getting screwed by the ruling elites for 500 years. I believe the overwhelming choice of Duterte suggests that they've finally had enough and that they believe he holds out a promise of radical, much needed change. I also feel strongly that his election marked a potentially significant step forward for this country and is the most positive sign I've witnessed during the time I've lived here.
GE.Excellent comment, GE.

It's easy to view the Philippines through the safety and comfort of the western lens. I can't say all western countries didn't undergo long periods of human rights abuses, but certainly many of them did. It was through their own effort, often over hundreds of years and spanning generations, that they arrived where they are today. Yet, still we hear of groups claiming human rights abuses in the most advanced and democratically representative nations. Let's keep in mind there are many innocent people imprisoned because they didn't have the resources to hire competent lawyers, so they pleaded guilty to reduced charges to avoid a longer term.

I'm willing to give Duterte some flexibility. His warning to police at NAIA that if one fucks up they're all being sent to Zamboanga is fantastic. Forcing groups to police themselves or face the consequences collectively is a good start. Yes, there is the risk he becomes a tyrant. He's limited to a 6-year term, and if we see him agitate to change this that's a strong warning. I'd like to see him tackle the political dynasties. There's no good reason for 3 - 10 members of a family to be holding elected office, and this includes Duterte's own family.

Mogwai
05-16-16, 08:54
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36297583

FreebieFan
05-16-16, 09:14
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36297583Disturbing because its the Death penalty and those seemingly first world countries can sit and shake their heads at their backward Third world brethren.

Or disturbing because a country takes a regressive step having abolished the death penalty a few years back. Estrada had a guy hung when he was President.

Or disturbing because of the notion of a state actively killing its citizens for the crimes they commit.

Or disturbing because a few countries who have all abolished the death penalty in the race to be seen to be compassionate enlightened countries perhaps secretly wish they could have it returned. The folk who murdered all the innocents in the name of religion in Paris recently for instance might have been such candidates had the French still had such a law.

If Duterte is to make a difference in a country where the rule of law is truly " an option, a voluntary choice ", then perhaps the fear of the death penalty might work.

GoodEnough
05-16-16, 09:47
Local new reports here in Davao indicated that major hotels were full last week, largely with foreigners from Japan, the US and other countries. It went on to say that the sudden influx was comprised of representatives of companies seeking to discuss investment opportunities with members of the Duterte team. Now I can't confirm that this was indeed the case, but I do note that, since his election, the peso has strengthened and the local stock market has gone up. All of this might indicate that potential and current foreign investors, as well as the business community of the country view his election optimistically.

GE.

Mogwai
05-16-16, 16:21
Disturbing because its the Death penalty and those seemingly first world countries can sit and shake their heads at their backward Third world brethren.
Or disturbing because a country takes a regressive step having abolished the death penalty a few years back. Estrada had a guy hung when he was President.
Or disturbing because of the notion of a state actively killing its citizens for the crimes they commit.
Or disturbing because a few countries who have all abolished the death penalty in the race to be seen to be compassionate enlightened countries perhaps secretly wish they could have it returned. The folk who murdered all the innocents in the name of religion in Paris recently for instance might have been such candidates had the French still had such a law.
If Duterte is to make a difference in a country where the rule of law is truly " an option, a voluntary choice ", then perhaps the fear of the death penalty might work.To me it's not so much disturbing that he wants to bring back the death penalty. I found these parts to be the most disturbing:

"If you resist, show violent resistance, my order to police (will be) to shoot to kill. Shoot to kill for organised crime. You heard that? Shoot to kill for every organised crime," he is quoted by the AFP news agency as saying.

And:

He vowed to give himself and members of the security forces immunity from prosecution after leaving office, saying: "Pardon given to Rodrigo Duterte for the crime of multiple murder, signed Rodrigo Duterte. ".

Looks like he wants to give himself and the security forces carte blanche. Given the fact that the police force in the Phils is not known for its integrity (understatement) I think this is frightening.