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Wanking
02-12-13, 17:51
These 3 clubs are run by the same management, and are all located in the Duisburg - Essen area. They all offer Bareback action. Current pricing is 3 x 30 min AO sessions for €110, and this includes entry.

http://www.fkk-arabella.com/

http://www.fkk-venus.com/

http://www.fkk-venus.com/

Wanking
02-12-13, 18:08
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne).Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1382917&viewfull=1#post1382917

Wanking
02-12-13, 18:11
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne).Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1374271&viewfull=1#post1374271

plus Optimist

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne)-Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1361290&viewfull=1#post1361290

plus Creature

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne)-Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1361290&viewfull=1#post1361290

Varenne
02-12-13, 21:39
Under the same management and system is also.

FKK-Erotika (http://www.fkk-erotika.com/)

In Iserlohn.

FKK-Alina (http://www.fkk-alina.com)

, due to open tomorrow in Dorsten, also uses the same system. I bet someone wil soon confirm that also this new one is under the very same management as the other four.

In another area and under different management, but using same all inclusive system is also M-Exclusiv (http://m-exclusiv.com) (Dόlmen), sessions last here only 20' though.

Sportsman
02-13-13, 00:54
Sauna Club Belami is under the same management too. But I don't know if AO service is included. I have a business card that has Grimberg, Villa Venus, Arabella, and Belami on it.

http://www.fkk-belami.com/0.htm

Sportsman
02-14-13, 02:39
This is the url for Club Grimberg: http://www.grimbergsauna.com/1.htm

My favorite grils here are Alice and Nataly.

Wanking
02-14-13, 03:05
This is the url for Club Grimberg:

http://www.grimbergsauna.com/1.htmFucks sake I meant to post the Grimberg url but ended up posting the Villa Venus one twice.

Lack of sex must be making me stupid. Anyway thanks Sportsman for posting it.

Burma Jones
02-14-13, 22:01
I visited Grimberg in September '12 when the pricing structure was 1-4 sessions. Now that they (all 3 clubs) have increased the rates to 1X60, 2X90, and 3X110, do you still pay 30E surcharge to the girl after an AO session? The linked reports don't make any mention of extra payments beyond the initial session options paid to the desk lady. Thanks

Wanking
02-14-13, 23:58
I visited Grimberg in September '12 when the pricing structure was 1-4 sessions. Now that they (all 3 clubs) have increased the rates to 1X60, 2X90, and 3X110, do you still pay 30E surcharge to the girl after an AO session? The linked reports don't make any mention of extra payments beyond the initial session options paid to the desk lady. ThanksPrices now include all extras, including AO.

Dreams
03-05-13, 19:27
Thanks, Wanking, for posting all this in a new thread. Much simpler to navigate.

I am landing in DUS around 7 pm on a Monday night. And will pick up a rental car.

Unfortunately, I could not find anything on that evening in SwingerLover map, so was thinking at going to one of those 3 AO clubs.

Have read the reports, seen the websites, and. Don't know which one to choose. Monday night may not be the best day, but this I can't change.

Are there any differences which may help me to choose? Or should I just go to the one closer to the airport and / or to any hotel? And by the way, any cheap hotel, with wifi, close to any of those clubs?

If not, I will just toss a coin.

Hessen Bub
03-05-13, 19:55
Go to Grimberg or Arabella, they are just 15min apart. If you don't like the line-up or the hardware. Just move on. It's 60€ entree including one 30min session. Grimberg is thhe bigger club.

HB

Dasisextra
03-05-13, 23:11
The 1X60 2X90 & 3X110 seems to be over with at present, it was running during last trip just over a month ago, just back from Villa Venus where is it back to 30+30 to entry inc 1 AO session then 30 for each session after that, interesting thing, you do not pay the girl for extra session direct, but pay the Tanke, & girl gets a token. Line up not bad at all, did 2 Casandra & Yana.

Free Dude
03-05-13, 23:23
FKK Alina is the 4th of the clubs (new) and is getting good reviews. What Arabella and Grimberg is concerned I hear Grimberg has more good service providers and Arabella has more young slim girls. This whole AO scene isn't my cup of tea, so I can't speak from experience.

Breadman
03-06-13, 02:26
Personally, its not the AO but the quality of the clubs and most of the girls. I'd rather buy super thin condoms and fuck optifucks than do lower quality of girls while I'm on vacation. I can get AO from girls at home for a fraction of the normal surcharge.

Sportsman
03-06-13, 03:08
I am landing in DUS around 7 pm on a Monday night. And will pick up a rental car.

Unfortunately, I could not find anything on that evening in SwingerLover mapLaluna has their flat rate party on Monday. 11 MAR. 129 euros for AO. They are open until 1:00 am on Monday.

http://www.club-laluna-moers.de/

The other three clubs close at midnight.

PacificRim
03-06-13, 07:30
And by the way, any cheap hotel, with wifi, close to any of those clubs?I'll be landing at Weeze on the 19th and I'm also interested in hotels near one of the clubs if anyone has any intel. Thanks. Pac

Hessen Bub
03-06-13, 09:34
The 1X60 2X90 & 3X110 seems to be over with at present, it was running during last trip just over a month ago, just back from Villa Venus where is it back to 30+30 to entry inc 1 AO session then 30 for each session after that, interesting thing, you do not pay the girl for extra session direct, but pay the Tanke, & girl gets a token. Line up not bad at all, did 2 Casandra & Yana.Just so you don't get confused: You pay at the "Theke" (which means bar) and not "Tanke" (which means gas station). LOL.

These 3 clubs are changing their pricing model based on how many girls & guys are in the club on a daily basis, even within the day you might encounter both pricing models.

HB

MS Clive
03-06-13, 13:14
Folks.

Looking for a FKK club where one can get AO. Closer to Frankfurt or Munich. I RTFF but could not locate one. Can anyone enlighten me?

Dedalus
03-06-13, 16:54
On one of the German forums there have been a number of reports about guests having their car broken into and robbed while visiting VV. One guy even reported that it happened to him when his vehicle was parked right in front of the building.

This seems to be a pretty serious issue and worth taking note of if one is planning on parking anywhere on that street in the evening. Sounds as though a criminal element is targeting cars visiting VV. Not all that hard to imagine considering the area.

Be warned, bring GPS and laptop devices inside with you, and avoid leaving valuables in the car.

Cheers,

Dedalus

Dreams
03-06-13, 17:02
Personally, its not the AO but the quality of the clubs and most of the girls. I'd rather buy super thin condoms and fuck optifucks than do lower quality of girls while I'm on vacation. I can get AO from girls at home for a fraction of the normal surcharge.With all due respect, why do you come on an AO thread to tell us that? We certainly respect each one's preferences, but don't understand why you continue reading AO threads.

Dreams
03-06-13, 17:05
Go to Grimberg or Arabella, they are just 15min apart. If you don't like the line-up or the hardware. Just move on. It's 60€ entree including one 30min session. Grimberg is thhe bigger club.

HBThanks HB and others.

Will probably start with Grimberg and see how it goes.

Still missing info on nearby hotels, if somebody has a suggestion. Any Ibis budget near by?

Dreams
03-06-13, 17:06
FKK Alina is the 4th of the clubs (new) and is getting good reviews. What Arabella and Grimberg is concerned I hear Grimberg has more good service providers and Arabella has more young slim girls. This whole AO scene isn't my cup of tea, so I can't speak from experience.Yes, I have read on foreign forums about this new place, but did not find any report on ISG. If I go, I'll report, but have niot yet decided.

Breadman
03-06-13, 18:40
With all due respect, why do you come on an AO thread to tell us that? We certainly respect each one's preferences, but don't understand why you continue reading AO threads.With all due respect, for a guy who insists AO isn't offered at Bernds you've seem to have an interest in visiting AO clubs. You don't like what I post, add me to your ignore list.

PacificRim
03-06-13, 19:41
For what it's worth I booked a room at Niewerther Hof, Klumperstrasse 1-3, 46348 Raesfeld for 48 euros per night. Includes breakfast and wifi and parking (according to the website). I haven't been there but read some decent reviews on the hotel.

Dreams
03-06-13, 22:57
With all due respect, for a guy who insists AO isn't offered at Bernds you've seem to have an interest in visiting AO clubs. You don't like what I post, add me to your ignore list.Don't you think it is logical that, because I never got (and never asked) for AO in Bernd's, I look at AO clubs. Get it?

Ignore is a useless tool, since posts are constantly quoted.

But I don't mind your posts, I just comment on them. As you do with mine.

The good news is that we will never meet, I go to Bernd's and will go to AO clubs, and these are places that, I guess, you never go to!

Dreams
03-06-13, 22:58
For what it's worth I booked a room at Niewerther Hof, Klumperstrasse 1-3, 46348 Raesfeld for 48 euros per night. Includes breakfast and wifi and parking (according to the website). I haven't been there but read some decent reviews on the hotel.Thnaks, that loooks good. Just drop us a line about your experience after you have been there.

Max #01
03-07-13, 00:19
Folks.

Looking for a FKK club where one can get AO. Closer to Frankfurt or Munich. I RTFF but could not locate one. Can anyone enlighten me?DVR is the closest to Frankfurt of which I am aware and try to visit when I'm in country. With a couple of exceptions, it's reliably AO. The facilities are average, but the girls are friendly (even to an English-speaker) and very accommodating. Check out the thread in this forum. It's about 120km from the city and is pretty much a straight shot out the A-3. If there is a closer AO place, I'm not aware of it. I'd like to try one of the places in this forum, but they are just too far away.

Dasisextra
03-07-13, 01:41
Just so you don't get confused: You pay at the "Theke" (which means bar) and not "Tanke" (which means gas station). LOL.

HBI ventured to Grimberg today, the name says a lot,"GRIM" Line up nothing as good as VV and the large room is much better to see the girls at Villa Venus, saying that as I was there I did 2 sessions and paid the "Theke" (thanks for the German lesson HB) LOL. Will be sticking to Villa Venus me think. Might try Arabelle, memory not great, not sure if I tried there before.

BTW AO is available in Bernds if they know you & you know which girls do it, it is around the 50/50 mark.

Marine One
03-07-13, 03:37
DVR is the closest to Frankfurt of which I am aware and try to visit when I'm in country. With a couple of exceptions, it's reliably AO. The facilities are average, but the girls are friendly (even to an English-speaker) and very accommodating. Check out the thread in this forum. It's about 120km from the city and is pretty much a straight shot out the A-3. If there is a closer AO place, I'm not aware of it. I'd like to try one of the places in this forum, but they are just too far away.I am also not aware of any AO place near (or in) FRA, though I have looked. The problem with DVR is that not everyone can, or wants to, rent a car and drive in Germany.

Maybe some of the owners of other AO clubs could be presauded to open a new place near FRA. I bet they would do a booming business because there must be a lot of people like me who have to land in FRA, and that would be the most convenient place by far!

Sportsman
03-07-13, 04:42
I ventured to Grimberg today, the name says a lot,"GRIM" Line up nothing as good as VVDasisextra,

Was Alice happened to be there? If she was there, you wouldn't have missed her. She is the best looking girl there by anyone's standard. I heard she might be at the new club Alina now. I will be in the area on Friday and want to track her down. Thanks.

Dasisextra
03-07-13, 09:23
Dasisextra,

Was Alice happened to be there? If she was there, you wouldn't have missed her. She is the best looking girl there by anyone's standard. I heard she might be at the new club Alina now. I will be in the area on Friday and want to track her down. Thanks.Sorry can not help, the name does not ring any bells, or a stunning looker, saying that I can not even remember the names of who I sessioned with.

SwingerLover
03-07-13, 11:00
Looking for a FKK club where one can get AO. Closer to Frankfurt or Munich. I RTFF but could not locate one. Can anyone enlighten me?As you can see on my AO map http://goo.gl/maps/Rk0pE (which just passed the 14000 views mark) there are not many places around Frankfurt, DVR is the closest, assuming that you are looking for one-on-one AO action. If you like AO gangbangs too, then look for the occasional parties from Gangbang01 in Mφrfelden and Sexy-Susi in Heidesheim.

Forget about AO in Munich. When it comes to paid sex, AO is prohibited in Bavaria. So the only options there will be private venues or filmed events. And the city of Frankfurt seems to have a problem with AO-parties too, I was told as much. So here also only private venues in Frankfurt itself, no parties, no clubs. AO maybe available with some hookers, but I don't know about that scene.

Aside from my map, look here for AO: www.fickreklame.com/ao-kontakte/index.php

Maxime
03-07-13, 14:19
Forget about AO in Munich. When it comes to paid sex, AO is prohibited in Bavaria.[/url]Indeed, and even worse: even OWO (BBBJ) Is forbidden in Bavaria (in P6, when it is free it is allowed. Strange laws there.).

As written in some other thread, NRW seems to be party- as well as AO heaven, for the people who like it of course (happily WITH condom is allowed everywhere)

Dasisextra
03-08-13, 01:42
Under the same management and system is also.

FKK-Alina (http://www.fkk-alina.com)

, due to open tomorrow in Dorsten, also uses the same system. I bet someone wil soon confirm that also this new one is under the very same management as the other four.I went to check out FKK Alina today, no way this place has just opened, you could tell by the seats and carpets ect ect, the price is 1 x 50 2 x 80 3 x 100.

I went for the 3 x 100 option, line up not great, similar to others, I took one girl and kept her in the room for 90 minutes so that covered my 3 session, she was delighted to get 3 tokens, had a good chat with her, she has been working there for 3 years, since it first opened, her words, not mine. While chatting to her it was nearly enough to turn you off these cheap AO clubs, she had tears in her eyes when she spoke that she has no friends outside the club, she works 6 days a a week, first 2 sessions cover her club entry and sleep, then she gets €25 for each token.

Woodypussy1967
03-23-13, 00:03
Very nice club! It is very good that you can find some ladies there that they are really into bareback anal. Maybe, they are not so beautiful but they are in their early twnties and their sexual performance is very good. It is perfect to see sperm dripping out of their red assholes, like in the porn movies!

Jymondor
03-23-13, 16:01
Very nice club! It is very good that you can find some ladies there that they are really into bareback anal. Maybe, they are not so beautiful but they are in their early twnties and their sexual performance is very good. It is perfect to see sperm dripping out of their red assholes, like in the porn movies!What club you are talking about?

Hessen Bub
03-23-13, 18:06
That's true for all 3 clubs. Except for the "they are into it" part. They are there for the money, BB is a must and they are fighting for customers. That's why they let you fuck their asses BB for 30€ including CIM.

HB

Optimist
03-23-13, 18:37
HB. Correct. There is sometimes an air of desperation to some girls when they open up: they do not make so much as in the top FKKs and it shows. They are especially happy if they can do a session with a condom, or even better, get paid to chat. But having said this, I have found the service level on average to be higher than in some highly reputed FKKs: in that sense maybe they are more "into it". Maybe I have just been lucky.

Hessen Bub
03-23-13, 19:13
Maybe they just HAVE to give better service to earn their living. Some people say that's the case for the "second class" girls in the bigger FKKs."Die hδsslichen (Frauen) sind die dankbarsten". (The ugly girls are the most grateful.) Actually I've had my overall best sessions in the last 12 years with the 9s and 10s.

HB

EastGoing
03-25-13, 02:33
[While chatting to her it was nearly enough to turn you off these cheap AO clubs, she had tears in her eyes when she spoke that she has no friends outside the club, she works 6 days a a week, first 2 sessions cover her club entry and sleep, then she gets €25 for each token.]

I apologize for entering a section that is not (yet?) my cup of tea. I respect all opinions, practices and choices, but the quoted above is really touching, heartbreaking, should move a rock! Are these girls freely willing to do it? Why should a girl decide to work AO, for such a little earning? She would make more money more easily selling herself anywhere else: country, clubs, flats, streets, etc. And she could do it without AOing. I know this question can be used anywhere anyhow, but in this particular case it arises strongerly. Just wondering.

Optimist
03-25-13, 09:05
EastGoing. Despite my moniker I largely agree with HB and Nick the G on this issue. If we go to the clubs there is no point having bleeding hearts when we hear the truth about girls' circumstances. In this there is really no major distinction between AO clubs and other clubs: this is why sometime so I go to Venus and Arabella etc. The girls there can be nice, need the money, can give good service, and it is cheaper. And you can use a condom (it's not forbidden and will be appreciated by the girls). I do not write these clubs off.

If you get to know FKK girls you will realise that the majority are finding life very difficult, and this is not just in these lower level AO clubs. Girls in top class FKKs may also be working six days a week, have no friends or life outside the club, and be living only for their next visit home. But as one girl said to me years ago "It has to be done" (she is now living in Germany and independent of "managers"). Maybe they just want a future or to look after their children (and be worrying if they have made the right career choice, about infections, about their mothers finding out and so on). The difference in the "AO" clubs is that the girls tend to be the sort who could not compete in a high level FKK, often have poor language skills, less experience of life, and more often come from disadvantaged backgrounds (e.g. Roma). This means they are very likely to have a "manager" taking a significant cut of their meagre income or owe a debt to someone for being introduced to the club, being accommodated and transported.

And of course there is the belief that antibiotics and testing will keep them safe. This is to a large degree true, and young people tend to think they are invulnerable. They usually smoke heavily (probably a greater danger than AO) so their attitude to risk may be different to yours. The risk of infection is not as high as is commonly said - more worrying perhaps is the risk of cervical cancer as a result of unprotected (and to a lesser degree) covered sex, but this usually seems to be a remote risk to most girls. So if you are really concerned - try to stop the girl smoking and don't have sex with her (protected or not), or at least encourage her to get (or continue to get) regularly smear tested and STD tested

The reason the girl had tears in her eyes was probably that she had found a nice customer and felt able to let go a little. When this happens maybe the customer should be pleased to have brought a little safety for the girl for a few minutes? And just think - if you got to know most individuals at an intimate level you will find they have tears in their eyes about some great sadness or problem in their lives. So these girls are not so different to the majority of us - they have just risen to a challenge of their very difficult economic circumstances.

Of course this all applies less to German resident girls. They will have friends, be more likely to be independent, etc. But they will require a higher income so they will not be found normally in AO clubs. Whereas a Romanian, even in an AO club, will earn net significantly more the average wage for a skilled Romanian worker. The ones who don't, go home and don't return.

And before we get despondent, remember that the conditions endured by a large proportion of the world's workers who produce the goods we enjoy, via "reputable" companies, are much worse conditions than FKK workers. And I have even had girls say to me they would much rather be prostitutes than check-out operators, being paid peanuts and with no self-respect. I know a girl in Romania who is an intelligent graduate but does not want to be a prostitute - the result is that she is going to spend her life being a sales assistant at rock bottom Romanian wages

Of course some (a tiny minority) girls in any club will want and initiate sex without a condom for no extra charge, simply because they enjoy sex with you and are maybe a bit reckless and / or emotionally volatile. But that's another story.

If you want some fun with intelligent girls at these clubs try Aida at Venus or Angie at Grimberg

EastGoing
03-25-13, 16:18
Optimist,

What you write is truly indisputable, unquestionable, fully right and fully agreeable. Apart from "moniker", which I couldn't translate (smilie). And you are right also in pointing out that doing AO doesn't change too much the thing from a perspective of "freedom" or "happiness", but what strikes from a superficial point of view is that, as you (and others) admit, they will appreheciate if a customer wants to use a condom. This means that, on top of all the right things you explained about their highly probable situation, they also live their condition with concerns about their health, concerns that don't touch (or just slightly perhaps) the customers going with them, health concerns that don't hassle the graduated Romanian starving out of her sales assistant low salary at home.

That's what I meant to point out, the added problem of the health worries that these girls have on top of the rest. But, like I admitted, you are so right and from a practical point of view nothing can be done to change this fucking world, so. Amen

SwingerLover
03-25-13, 17:16
Apart from "moniker", which I couldn't translate (smilie).

They will appreheciate if a customer wants to use a condom. This means that, on top of all the right things you explained about their highly probable situation, they also live their condition with concerns about their health, "Moniker" = nickname.

Can't speak for the FKK-girls, but judging from the AO-girls in Krefeld I'm under the impression that they don't "apprechiate" the use of condoms for health reasons, but because they are too lazy to go wash after each fuck. Which is kinda understandable, given how much time they spend in the bathroom with the shower-hose up their crotch at the AO-parties. I guess that's also the reason for some to not want to get spritzed into the pussy. And I also think someone like Sonja or Karina apprechiate a good creampie-gangfuck with 5 to 8 guys cuming inside them and then only one wash afterwards.


They usually smoke heavily (probably a greater danger than AO) so their attitude to risk may be different to yours. The risk of infection is not as high as is commonly said. More worrying perhaps is the risk of cervical cancer as a result of unprotected (and to a lesser degree) covered sex, but this usually seems to be a remote risk to most girls. So if you are really concerned. Try to stop the girl smokingAmen. What I've been saying all along too. Put things into perspective!

That was a very interesting report, Optimist. I can fully relate to it. I also RODed it.


Whereas a Romanian, even in an AO club, will earn net significantly more the average wage for a skilled Romanian worker.Yes. I happen to know that at least one of the Bulgarian girls in Krefeld can not even read or write her own mother tongue properly, much less German. Or even English. Some of those girls are from the boonies, the remote Hinterlands of Bulgaria. Even at those shabby apartments in Krefeld, even with loose toilet seats, they must think they died and gone to heaven for just having a toilet IN the apartment, instead of walking 20 m outside to a privy with no heat and running water at temperatures below minus 20° C in the wintertime. And still earn more money for getting fucked all day for maybe 5 € from each guy at a party than a minimum wage worker at home. That is if they could acquire such a job, with such minuscule reading abilities.

That was the downside. The upside is someone like Karina, who like a lot of the Romanians even speaks some decent English, speaks some German and could definitely get other jobs if she wanted to. But then she would not get fucked as much (which Karina definitely enjoys a lot) and would propably still earn much less doing a regular job back home.

Myrrh
03-25-13, 18:43
But, like I admitted, you are so right and from a practical point of view nothing can be done to change this fucking world, so. AmenI'm afraid that in war it is killed or be killed my friend and in life I am slowly coming round to the long term pessimistic view that you either fuck or else spend the rest of your life being fucked.

These days everyone is trying to screw as much money out of everybody else as they can in this mass consumer world, generally speaking.

So it best not to ask the question why or think about it too deeply or for too long. Otherwise you would never end up buying anything from the €1 or £1 shop because you would worry too much about whether it was made by gangs of malnourished children in some third world country chained together in a rat infested factory which they then sleep in. You would instead always pay 10 times as much to buy it from a 'respectable' shop and then spend your time continually moaning that you never seem to have any money left at the end of the week.

If girls are offering girlfriend sex for peanuts then just take it because one thing is for sure it's not going to last. Some do-gooder will step in eventually and put a stop to it or the girls will wise up and go elsewhere and then what will you do?

EastGoing
03-25-13, 20:39
Can't speak for the FKK-girls, but judging from the AO-girls in Krefeld I'm under the impression that they don't "apprechiate" the use of condoms for health reasons, but because they are too lazy to go wash after each fuck.Simply fantastic! What can I say, ubi maior minor cessat! (smilie).

Myrrh, once again, you are totally right, I must surrender to evidence. As to your last sentence (inspite of precious teachings given time ago by SL, I stubbornly insist in not understanding a fuck, I mean I can't manage to quote properly) in Artemis thread somebody is spreading panic around. (smilie)

P. S. SL, should we ever meet, it will be easier for you to take me at your favourite clubs than teaching me how to fucking use computers LOL! And don't get told off by Jackson ;)

Myrrh
03-25-13, 22:10
Despite my monikerWho is this girl?

Indi Companion
03-26-13, 10:42
The reason the girl had tears in her eyes was probably that she had found a nice customer and felt able to let go a little. When this happens maybe the customer should be pleased to have brought a little safety for the girl for a few minutes? And just think - if you got to know most individuals at an intimate level you will find they have tears in their eyes about some great sadness or problem in their lives. So these girls are not so different to the majority of us - they have just risen to a challenge of their very difficult economic circumstances.Ah Optimist, you are really a very wise man with a lot of sensibility and experience.

One ex wife of mine had a true university degree and left the job as soon as she finished paying her manager. One of my current wifes, who's for my taste one of the most striking girls I ever met, she got brain and had an absolutely normal life before her "late" start in this job. So why these things happen? I know the truth behind these two girls but this is not relevant, what makes the difference is when you are the one who sees the tears in their eyes.

There are many different stories behind any of these girls, as you all report and tell. For sure, as also Kommodore said in one of his posts on an other thread, it is our choice if we prefer to enjoy this hobby living a fairytale or simply looking straight into reality. I enjoy this hobby and I would never give it up for whatever reason but, at the same time, I always preferred reality to fairytales since when I was 9 years old.

Dreams
03-26-13, 11:07
I have read with interest the previous discussion and agree with most of it. Not much to add, so I will just report my visit to Arabella yesterday evening.

Arrived around 8 am, very quiet. 5-6 punters, about 12 girls. Paid my 90 euros for 2 sessions, was shown around by a tall german girl, Sandra, who speaks a bit of english.

There was absolutely nothing to eat, and hardly anything to drink (just juice and coffee). So, remember to eat before going.

Club has already been described, it's quite small, and therefore cosy and friendly atmosphere. Girls are naked, sitted on sofas and smile at you, but you have to approach them.

There are smallpictures of them on the bar, with their name and some indication of their services: One says: "Ich malle alles" (I do everything) But it is Michelle, a tall 40+ totally unattractive German Lady. Other say, in German: "everything, but anal, and CIM". Other says:" speciality: anal". Other says speciality: CIM. But it is sometimes difficult to recognize the girls from their picture.

Most of the girls were Romanain / Bulgarian, relatively young, some very chubby, some very slim, so quite a good choice. But they do not speak anything but their own language. In addition. 2 germans, Sandra and Michelle, and one Nigerian, Sylvia, who speak english.

I had my first session with a Roumanian, forgot her name. Quite chubby, big natural breasts. Nice BBBJ on the couch, and Ok fuck in the room. She was advertised as everything but anal. Offered AO.

Then I went with Sylvia,"chocolate" Nigerian / Brazilian girl, essentially because I wanted some social times. Nice slim body, very friendly, superficial kisser, good BBBJ. She was advertised as " speciality: CIM". In the room, good hugging, DATY, but I could feel that she was not much into the sex. She said she only fuck covered. Finally she gave me a very good bbj with CIM.

Conclusion: this is what you may call a "lowcost" FKK. Fucking 2 girls for 90 euros, with CIM, COB included, is really cheap, and the service is by no means less good than in a major FKK. To get the same service in, say Palace, I would have paid more than 200 Euros. But this is not a place to hang on for very long, not much to do between sessions, and little if any social time.

Interestingly, it seems that AO is only offered by the Romanian / Bulgarian girls. And that points to what was discussed in the previous posts. Those girls have probably less choice than the germans or the Nigerian. So, yes, I agree that, if given the choice, they would prefer covered fuck.

Dreams
03-26-13, 18:26
I have read with interest the previous discussion and agree with most of it. Not much to add, so I will just report my visit to Arabella yesterday evening.

Arrived around 8 am, .I meant 8 PM.

Ed Setra
03-26-13, 18:57
Nice post Optimist.

I'm also an occasional visitor to these clubs. I shall probably visit again in April, maybe checking out the newer one also. They're not for everyone but I've been impressed (and maybe lucky) overall with service levels. As you say AO is available, but not compulsory. I usually stay for 2 well chosen sessions. The 3 session option is priced to tempt, but there is just not enough to do at these clubs between sessions for me and I get bored waiting for recovery for session 3. Oh, to be young again.


If you want some fun with intelligent girls at these clubs try Aida at Venus or Angie at GrimbergIs Aida the very attractive slim and tall model-like girl in Venus?

Do both of these girls provide AO?

Optimist
03-26-13, 22:23
Ed Setra.

I'm also only an occasional visitor to Germany

Aida at Venus is tall, slim but quite broadly built. She has a striking face which I like but which another monger said was a touch androgynous : I think she could be described as model like. Her English is good and her sex is well above the standard FKK offering. She is a touch older than some and is settled in her life so perhaps she has the combination of enjoying sex (even being a bit wild) and being responsible and mature in her mind. She will do AO if you want but anal is always covered.

Angie is (I think) still at Grimberg. One of the liveliest girls I have ever met, and astonishing public sex and DFK even when you are at the Theke after the session. She literally nearly knocked me over with her DFK. Again her service is far beyond the normal in FKKs and she is mature in her mind. Not sure if sh eis still there - if anyone knows I'd love to here as she is (for me) worth the diversion. I think she only does AO-lite or covered.

As for number of sessions. Given the price structure I always go for three sessions as, even if I'm not physically up to three pops, it gives the girls a bit of easy money to have a talk / music sharing / photosharing session and it makes a nice atmosphere. They remember.

Optimist
03-26-13, 22:49
Indi. Again thank you for your kind words. I look forward to you getting the PM facility. You ask why a girl with a brain and good job might make a late start into this career. Well, for one worker at least it was because it was a more honest, productive, and emotionally rewarding career than running a public sector organisation. Every story is different.

As for fairy stories, I agree. But one time I was very taken aback when a girl demanded I tell her a fairy story. I could not deny a request from such a beseeching pair of eyes so for the first time in my life I told a fairy story which she then told to her offspring.

Vito Corleone
03-27-13, 00:12
Aida at Venus is tall, slim but quite broadly built. She has a striking face which I like but which another monger said was a touch androgynous :

Angie is (I think) still at Grimberg. One of the liveliest girls I have ever met, and astonishing public sex and DFK even when you are at the Theke after the session. She literally nearly knocked me over with her DFK. Again her service is far beyond the normal in FKKs and she is mature in her mind. Not sure if sh eis still there. If anyone knows I'd love to here as she is (for me) worth the diversion. I think she only does AO-lite or covered.Aida.

I still think she has that androdynous look with rugby shoulders. There is nothing model about her except for her height.

Angie.

Not my type, but she is cream pie city. Seen her many times banging away on the couches, stairway & etc. All the guys busted nuts inside her. She gives the total PSE, but a bit rough around the edges for my taste.

Optimist
03-27-13, 09:21
Thanks for the correction about Angie. Have you seen her recently? Rough round the edges. I found her to be sweet! How perceptions vary. Mind you I did book her for three sessions in a space of two hours, and during that time her persona calmed down, even eventually spending half hour in and outside the sauna chatting

Aida - yes you need to be a man to tackle those shoulders;) But I still think she is slim and attractive in a slightly unusual way

Vito Corleone
03-27-13, 10:29
Thanks for the correction about Angie. Have you seen her recently? Rough round the edges. I found her to be sweet! How perceptions vary. Mind you I did book her for three sessions in a space of two hours, and during that time her persona calmed down, even eventually spending half hour in and outside the sauna chatting.

Aida. Yes you need to be a man to tackle those shoulders. But I still think she is slim and attractive in a slightly unusual waywhat's up Optimist,

Angie,

I meant she looks kind of rough, but totally agree she's a sweetie. I have never sessioned with her (seen her around for over a year) , but she smiles, waves hi then asks when my friend is going to visit. They both have an interesting connection. She was at Grimberg in late Jan, but I have not been there recently as Alice & Bianca have moved around.

Aida.

She is tall & slim for her height. I just cannot get past the 'This Is SPARTA! ' look.

Ed Setra
03-27-13, 12:33
Aida at Venus is tall, slim but quite broadly built. She has a striking face which I like but which another monger said was a touch androgynousThanks for that. I must be mistaken, or maybe I have latent attractions for the angrogynous look. I draw the line at rugby players though.


As for number of sessions. Given the price structure I always go for three sessions as, even if I'm not physically up to three pops, it gives the girls a bit of easy money to have a talk / music sharing / photosharing session and it makes a nice atmosphere. They remember.Agreed, I sometimes do this too.

Indi Companion
03-27-13, 14:32
Indi. Again thank you for your kind words. I look forward to you getting the PM facility. You ask why a girl with a brain and good job might make a late start into this career. Well, for one worker at least it was because it was a more honest, productive, and emotionally rewarding career than running a public sector organisation. Every story is different.My question was retoric because the reason of it in the cases I know wasn't an emotionally rewarded carreer but something that could be summarize in what one wife of mine once told me (with tears in her eyes)"My life is ruined". She had a late start not exactly on the basis of her free choice and will. But then, what you write remembers me that every story is different and there are also reasonably positive stories around!

Dreams
03-27-13, 17:12
.

As for number of sessions. Given the price structure I always go for three sessions as, even if I'm not physically up to three pops, it gives the girls a bit of easy money to have a talk / music sharing / photosharing session and it makes a nice atmosphere. They remember.You don't have to choose the number of sessions on arrival. You pay 60 euros at arrival, which include one session. Then you pay 30 euros after each additionnal session. At least that was the system in place yesterday and day before at both Arabella and Villa venus.

As for Aida, if all rugby players give similar sessions, I may frequent more often the rugby lockers.

Ed Setra
03-27-13, 17:53
You don't have to choose the number of sessions on arrival. You pay 60 euros at arrival, which include one session. Then you pay 30 euros after each additionnal session. At least that was the system in place yesterday and day before at both Arabella and Villa venus.It seems to vary from time to time depending on how busy they are, day of the week, etc.

Anytime I've been to these clubs the pricing structure was based on an upfront charge (such as 1x60, 2x90, 3x110) where you decided when you arrived how many sessions you wanted.

Hessen Bub
03-27-13, 18:09
It seems to vary from time to time depending on how busy they are, day of the week, etc.

Anytime I've been to these clubs the pricing structure was based on an upfront charge (such as 1x60, 2x90, 3x110) where you decided when you arrived how many sessions you wanted.Exactly. Depends oh how busy the club is, time of day and on the receptionist's mood.

HB

Dreams
03-28-13, 20:38
Exactly. Depends oh how busy the club is, time of day and on the receptionist's mood.

HBSo, suppose I take only one session, and pay 60, and therafter, I want to go with a second girl, what will happen? They refuse? They charge more?

Free Dude
03-28-13, 21:41
In this scenario you'd have to buy a new card, so again 60 for one session. Or in other words, repay the entry fee.

Jymondor
03-28-13, 22:28
So, suppose I take only one session, and pay 60, and therafter, I want to go with a second girl, what will happen? They refuse? They charge more?Today TF at Villa Venus charged 60E at the entrance. This included entrance fee and one session. After second and next sessions you go to the counter with the girl and TF charges another 30E.

I like this more than 120E upfront. More flexibility bur price per session is the same.

Today I was positively surprised by service level in Villa Venus again.

Dreams
03-29-13, 11:28
In this scenario you'd have to buy a new card, so again 60 for one session. Or in other words, repay the entry fee.I never saw this happen. And rightly so, because, I would just walk out.

Dreams
03-29-13, 11:38
Today TF at Villa Venus charged 60E at the entrance. This included entrance fee and one session. After second and next sessions you go to the counter with the girl and TF charges another 30E.

I like this more than 120E upfront. More flexibility bur price per session is the same.

Today I was positively surprised by service level in Villa Venus again.Exactly. And agree with the positive comments.

I was at VV Tuesday and liked it enough to go back on Wednesday.

Line up was excellent, at least 50 % of the 20 girls highly attractive.

Usual stars, alina, Bianca, julia and Aida were available. But many other attractive as well. The other half, hum. Far less, I would say to be polite, but who cares about the 2-5, when you have enough 6-9. Service is excellent, those girls don't have the "diva"s attitude that many have in so called "upperclass" FKKS. They are down to earth and of course, the "all inclusive" policy avoid any discussion about extras at any time. The only thing to know is that "all inclusive" does not mean that all girls do everything. So it means that whatever she does is included in the 30 euros. So do ask the girl what she does, or does not, before going up.

It is an AO club, but does not mean that you have to do AO. On the contrary, the girls will appreciate if you ask for condom.

Finally. 3 sessions, with good service, CIM, COB, AO, anal if you so lke for 120, is a bargain, given that the line up is definitively better than I expected. No food, so eat before.

This club is now one of my favorite.

Hessen Bub
03-29-13, 11:40
I never saw this happen. And rightly so, because, I would just walk out.But that's what I was told in my first visit to Arabella: 60€ for one session. 90€ for two. If you decide for one of these options and want a third session it will be another 60€. Same day at Grimberg it was 60€ for entry snd one session. 30€ for each additional session.

HB

Myrrh
03-29-13, 14:50
You don't have to choose the number of sessions on arrival. You pay 60 euros at arrival, which include one session. Then you pay 30 euros after each additionnal session. At least that was the system in place yesterday and day before at both Arabella and Villa venus.When I visited Arabella in September last year I was asked to pay €25 entry plus prepay the first session at €30, so a total of €55. Then every session after that was €30.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3215-Bareback-AO-(Alles-Ohne).Flat-Rate-Clubs-Parties-and-Events&p=1334787&viewfull=1#post1334787

I had visited on a Sunday so I don't know if they have a different pricing policy operating on that day compared to other days in the week.

The websites has the 60/90/110 euro tariffs displayed but I have heard it mentioned that they sometimes vary this policy to the one that I experienced either for that particular day or for a period. I also remember last year reading a german forum (translated into English) where the owner / manager of Arabella made a post saying that for a certain period the pricing would be the one (€25 entry plus prepay the first session at €30 and then every session after that €30) that I encountered.

Dreams
03-29-13, 16:49
But that's what I was told in my first visit to Arabella: 60€ for one session. 90€ for two. If you decide for one of these options and want a third session it will be another 60€. Same day at Grimberg it was 60€ for entry snd one session. 30€ for each additional session.

HBWell, that seems a bizarre way of doing business. I guess we should all insist that they keep the most logical way, that is entry plus one for a price, and then pay per session.

It would be to the detriment of the girl if I was to walk away instead of making her win her precious token because the Theke charges me 60 instead of 30.

But so far, it never happened to me, so I will always pretend I did not know.

SwingerLover
03-30-13, 15:58
Same day at Grimberg it was 60€ for entry snd one session. 30€ for each additional session.Might effectively be correct, but the website says:

Free entry. 1x 60 €; 2x 90 €; 3x 110 €.
So if any additional session is 30 €, then the only offer that saves you anything is the 3x-offer, saving you 10 €.
http://grimbergsauna.com/1.htm

They might as well do: 30 € entrance fee; 30 € per half-hour-session; 80 € for 3 sessions.

Myrrh
03-30-13, 17:57
the website says:

Free entry. 1x 60 €; 2x 90 €; 3x 110 €.

So if any additional session is 30 €, then the only offer that saves you anything is the 3x-offer, saving you 10 €.

http://grimbergsauna.com/1.htm

They might as well do: 30 € entrance fee; 30 € per half-hour-session; 80 € for 3 sessions.The best scenario for the club is if someone buys a ticket and then find out that they want more sex than they originally anticipated. They will then have to buy another ticket and so pay the entrance fee again.

It is in their financial interests to keep this inflexible arrangement rather than make it pay-as-you-go.

SwingerLover
03-30-13, 18:08
Same day at Grimberg it was 60€ for entry snd one session. 30€ for each additional session.
more sex than they originally anticipated. They will then have to buy another ticket and so pay the entrance fee again.Something doesn't fit here. If you enter there (for free!) and take the 1 session for 60 € and then want another, that would be another 60 € according to Myrrh's post and only another 30 € according to Bub's. Please clarify!

Hessen Bub
03-30-13, 18:17
Something doesn't fit here. If you enter there (for free!) and take the 1 session for 60 € and then want another, that would be another 60 € according to Myrrh's post and only another 30 € according to Bub's. Please clarify!When I was there it was 60€ entry including one session. Each additonal session was another 30€. May vary from week to week.

HB

Myrrh
03-30-13, 18:53
Something doesn't fit here. If you enter there (for free!) and take the 1 session for 60 € and then want another, that would be another 60 € according to Myrrh's post and only another 30 € according to Bub's. Please clarify!They may say entry is for free but in reality the 1 session for 60 € includes the entry fee of 30 €.

You can never know for sure before you go in whether you are going to find the girls there attractive or whether you are still going to be randy after your first session. So it would be best for the punter if they could just pay an entry fee of 30 € and then decide once they were inside how many sessions they wanted.

The FKK Arabella website makes it clear that once you have used up the number of sessions on your ticket then you start all over again and buy a new ticket. It makes no mention of just paying 30 € more for further sessions. I suppose you could argue with them but I suspect that Germans like being exact and sticking to the rules.

SwingerLover
03-30-13, 19:02
Sorry, Myrrh, we were talking about Grimbergsauna here, not Arabella! Maybe that's where the discrepancy comes from.

Myrrh
03-30-13, 19:21
Sorry, Myrrh, we were talking about Grimbergsauna here, not Arabella! Maybe that's where the discrepancy comes from.OK, but I thought that these sort of places, Arabella / VV / Grimberg and so on tended to operate pretty much the same kind of policies and enforce them in the same way.

Some of them have the same management team.

Hessen Bub
03-30-13, 20:55
OK, but I thought that these sort of places, Arabella / VV / Grimberg and so on tended to operate pretty much the same kind of policies and enforce them in the same way.

Some of them have the same management team.Still on the same day I found two different pricing models at Arabella and Grimberg.

HB

Jymondor
04-07-13, 20:12
Today (Sunday) I arrived to FKK Alina at about 4 PM. I spotted too many parked cars around. TF apologized that she has no lockers available and pointed on the empty board with the key hangers. I looked around. Ambiance is similar to V-Venus & Arabella. All sofas occupied by the mongers. Men were sitting two on one sofa. I saw 5 or 6 girls. Not attractive at all. I assume that all doable girls working in the rooms. I concluded that this is my luck that she had no single key left for me.

No regrets! I am renting very nice two-door loaded Audi 3. Nice weather, driving is enjoyable. In 20 minus I pushed bell button at V-Venus. The picture is just opposite. Very empty place. But girls are familiar. Average session with Lisa and as usually unforgettable with Aida.

Day before I was in Arabella. The only two things better in Arabella. This is TF and more private entrance that is not so open to the street. TF is tall, stylish woman with bearable English. Everything else is better in V-Venus. I don't see any reason switch from V-Venus I visit on regular base to Arabella or Alina.

One moment at Arabella. After first-session-shower I sat down on the sofa. I did not see girls purse on the floor beside. It was no towel on the sofa girls usually keep to indicate that place is occupied. So I did not know that this sofa is occupied. In a few moments young and fairly attractive girl approached and sat down beside me. I was a bit surprised that she sat right on the sofa without towel. This is not typical for the girls. As she sits she started hugging and caressing me. TF watched this for a couple of minutes and than called the girl and sent her to laundry room for fresh towels. It seems that she watches whats going on in the main room. I consider this moment as a positive characteristic of Arabella.

Dreams
04-08-13, 11:48
Today (Sunday) I arrived to FKK Alina at about 4 PM. I spotted too many parked cars around. TF apologized that she has no lockers available and pointed on the empty board with the key hangers. I looked around. Ambiance is similar to V-Venus & Arabella. All sofas occupied by the mongers. Men were sitting two on one sofa. I saw 5 or 6 girls. Not attractive at all. I assume that all doable girls working in the rooms. I concluded that this is my luck that she had no single key left for me.

No regrets! I am renting very nice two-door loaded Audi 3. Nice weather, driving is enjoyable. In 20 minus I pushed bell button at V-Venus. The picture is just opposite. Very empty place. But girls are familiar. Average session with Lisa and as usually unforgettable with Aida.

Day before I was in Arabella. The only two things better in Arabella. This is TF and more private entrance that is not so open to the street. TF is tall, stylish woman with bearable English. Everything else is better in V-Venus. I don't see any reason switch from V-Venus I visit on regular base to Arabella or Alina.

One moment at Arabella. After first-session-shower I sat down on the sofa. I did not see girls purse on the floor beside. It was no towel on the sofa girls usually keep to indicate that place is occupied. So I did not know that this sofa is occupied. In a few moments young and fairly attractive girl approached and sat down beside me. I was a bit surprised that she sat right on the sofa without towel. This is not typical for the girls. As she sits she started hugging and caressing me. TF watched this for a couple of minutes and than called the girl and sent her to laundry room for fresh towels. It seems that she watches whats going on in the main room. I consider this moment as a positive characteristic of Arabella.Agree totlly about V Venus superior to Arabella.

Slightly bigger place, more girls to choose from. And yes, Aida is a sure bet.

PacificRim
04-10-13, 13:47
After my first, failed attempt at a partytreff (see report in the Krefeld Bareback AO Parties thread) , I headed immediately for Villa Venus. What a breath of fresh air. When I rang the bell a pretty young girl with nipples that could poke your eyes out met me at the door. A Venn diagram of the beauty and sexiness of the girls at VV and the Krefeld party would show almost no overlap.

The desk woman doesn't speak English so she ask the very large (but quite charming) German man she was talking to to explain the layout.

The only hard part of VV was making the selection. But I decided to just sit down and take a chance. I sat by Maya (I never saw her name written, so I may have it wrong). She wasn't the prettiest girl in the room. She is small, with a nice smile (but not pretty teeth) and tits with a slight sag to them. But her ass and body were quite enticing. She didn't speak English, but I was in no mood to quibble. Soon she was kissing me like a long-lost boyfriend. And she has some neck-licking talents that had me ready for a room. Maya was in no rush, but we finally went upstairs. In the room I fell in love for an hour. It may have been my most enjoyable pay sex experience. In the room she was everything the Krefeld girls had not been: erotic, loving, attentive. He body responses were completely believable. Her pussy got soaking wet, she squeezed my arms at the appropriate time while I was licking her, and in every way gave me the hour of my life. She also had a cute giggle in response to my words that communicated that while she didn't understand the words, she did get the sentiment.

So that was the good, the very good about VV. What was bizarre was the pricing structure. I still don't understand it. When I entered I paid €60. €30 to enter and €30 for my first 30-minute session. There was a whiteboard sign that said something like "eine stunde, everything included €120". Mixing my languages a bit. I didn't understand what it applied to, but I assumed it was some special thing outside the normal price structure.

When I came down from my hour with Maya, the desk woman asked for another €60, and pointed to the sign. I was a bit dumbfounded. I had already paid €30 for the first half hour, which meant that the second half hour cost €60.

Later I talked to michela, who spoke English, and she confirmed that that was indeed the pricing structure. After talking to michela for awhile, I decided to have a session with her. When we were talking she asked if I came from Holland, I said no, USA. Here eyes lit up as she rhapsodized over NY, which she knows only from film. But it was a nice change from the typical reactions we Americans get these days. In the room Michela continued to be charming. And her body responses during sex were just as believable as Maya's. Either they enjoyed it or the girls at VV have a great acting coach. I did keep track of the time to avoid the 1-hour surcharge. I confirmed again with michela that if we stayed one hour it would be €120, which in that case would have made the second half hour €90. Bizarre.

I'd appreciate it if one of you German speakers could get an explanation of their pricing structure.

Thanks. Pac

SwingerLover
04-12-13, 13:15
I was a bit dumbfounded.

I'd appreciate it if one of you German speakers could get an explanation of their pricing structure.I must say I'm experiencing a similar sensation just now; regarding the dumbfounded-part.

On the website it says: "Half an hour Wedding Night, all extras included. 1*60 €, 2* 90 €, 3* 110 €." Suggests to me a price structure like at Grimbergsauna, meaning 60 € for one half-hour-session; 90 € for 2 sessions ans 110 € for 3 sessions.

After reading your report, I can only conclude that it means 60 € for the first half hour with another 60 € for each additional half hour, unless you pay the 90 or 100 € right upfront. http://fkk-venus.com/site/1.html

So you propably would have had to pay 110 € upfront to get three half-hour sessions for that price. It's a good thing that you had so much fun that you still considered it worth it.

PacificRim
04-12-13, 19:31
I went back the next night. The same signs were up. I paid 60 for the entry and the first half hour in the room. When I took Michaela up FLR another go round, I stayed 30 min and paid €30 after the session. I don't know what's going on, but I'm not going for an hour until I get a clarification.

By the way, I have a bit of a crush on Michaela.

Free Dude
04-15-13, 11:33
Nothing strange about the prices: management doesn't want girls to be in the room too long. It's pretty busy and if it where 30 for each half an hour, my two half hours with Michaela would have probably been 2 hours each and my session with Alina at least one hour. I did see some guys who got caught out by this pricing and there was a retard who spent 3 hours in the room and thought his 60 entrance would cover this 'one time spass'. I could see a bit of a crush developing with Michaela as well, what a sweetheart.

ETA it is indeed 30 for the first half an hour and 90 for the second half an hour; they just want the girls back quickly.

Farfally7
04-15-13, 16:46
Sorry I didn't understand well the price system of VV.

When you arrived in the VV you need to pay the entrance in advance or you have the possibility to stay inside the club, to see all the girls and later to choose 1 or 2 half hour?

If I have to pay: if I paid 60€: I paid the entrance and a half hour?

But if I paid 90€: I have two half hours with 2 girls or 1 hour with 1 girl?

Right?

Thanks

PacificRim
04-16-13, 11:56
When you arrived in the VV you need to pay the entrance in advance or you have the possibility to stay inside the club, to see all the girls and later to choose 1 or 2 half hour?

If I have to pay: if I paid 60€: I paid the entrance and a half hour?

But if I paid 90€: I have two half hours with 2 girls or 1 hour with 1 girl?

Right?

ThanksWrong. If you pay €90 you can spend a half hour with each of two different girls. But if you stay a full hour with one girl, you pay a total of 120 for the hour with the one girl.

The three times I was there last week, they didn't give the option to pay 90 at the start. You pay 60 when you enter. That covers entry fee and a half hour with one girl. If you stay an hour as I did, the thenkefrau asks you for an additional 60 on the spot. When I went for another half hour session later, she asked for 30 when I came down with the girl.

Free Dude's explanation makes sense, they are trying to rush you through. It's the McDonald's approach to an FKK, but in my experience they serve Kobe beef.

Free Dude. Did someone give you that explanation for their approach? Or are you guessing based on your experience and the only logical explanation you could come up with?

Hessen Bub
04-16-13, 12:40
The three times I was there last week, they didn't give the option to pay 90 at the start. You pay 60 when you enter. That covers entry fee and a half hour with one girl. If you stay an hour as I did, the thenkefrau asks you for an additional 60 on the spot. When I went for another half hour session later, she asked for 30 when I came down with the girl.Same for me: I had to pay 60 upfront, this included a 30min session. The next session I had I paid in cash at the reception, was another 30EUR. The cost for 1 hour with one girl was never mentioned. I would have protested if I'd been 60min and they would have demanded another 60EUR for the second half hour. What if you take a girl for 30min, leave the room for 5min, pay her and take her back to the room? 60 or 90 EUR for the two 30min sessions?

HB

PacificRim
04-16-13, 13:38
Same for me: I had to pay 60 upfront, this included a 30min session. The next session I had I paid in cash at the reception, was another 30EUR. The cost for 1 hour with one girl was never mentioned. I would have protested if I'd been 60min and they would have demanded another 60EUR for the second half hour. What if you take a girl for 30min, leave the room for 5min, pay her and take her back to the room? 60 or 90 EUR for the two 30min sessions?

HBWhen I was there they also had a whiteboard sign announcing the €120 for one hour, everything included. (As best I could tell that's what it said.). As I said earlier, I just thought it referred to some special deal. For example, Pay €120 and have at it with as many girls as you could squeeze in during the hour. The only support for this lame theory is that the TF wrote down my time of entry on the wrist card.

The main reason I didn't protest is that the TF doesn't speak English. She pointed to the whiteboard as support for her position. The secondary reason was I had just had one of the best sessions of my life and I couldn't put together a simple declarative sentence in any language.

Of course, your 5 minute break hypothetical is precisely why I found the whole thing so bizarre. And I think it would probably just be another €30 in that case. But damned if I know.

Free Dude
04-16-13, 17:09
Nobody ever told me, but the sign is pretty clear and the reasoning came up by talking to some regulars. I did see one guy get caught out, and not having to pay because the girl hadn't told him. I think this can't happen too often, otherwise girls would conveniently forget this all the time and spend hours up there. I got the distinct feeling some girls weren't maximizing their zimmers and were happy to 'sleep' in the room for another ten minutes after sex, and I didn't manage to get any girl upstairs within 20 minutes of sitting down next to her. The usual kissing presales, but also just cuddling up and talking to friends / smoking / drinking red bull / etc.

Hessen Bub
04-16-13, 18:25
For which clubs does the 1 hour rule apply? All of the three? Are there signs up in all three clubs?

HB

Free Dude
04-16-13, 20:17
Haven't seen it at arabella and I also think Alina doesn't have this rule; in these places you have to decide on the number of sessions beforehand; so if you spend more than a hour and a half, you need to buy a new card (and the club gets another entry fee). No clue about Grimberg.

Myrrh
04-16-13, 21:28
Is it just me or is anyone else completely bamboozled by the discussions / explanations provided by the last few posts?

I have only ever visited FKK Arabella of the clubs mentioned and found the pricing policy there daft to say the least. Normally there you buy a ticket for either 60/90/110 euros for entrance and 1/2/3 30 minute sessions. However on some other days they have a different policy where you pay an entrance of 30 euros and then 30 euros for each 30 minute session.

For Villa Venus club entry the discussion seems to be saying that you pay 30 euros for each 30 minute session but 60 euros for each extra 30 minutes over your initial 30 minute session rather than the to be expected 30 euros. So double the rate for extending your session!

WTF? How does this make sense?

People have been justifying it by saying that the club needs the girls to return back quickly because they are in demand. But why don't they just charge you 30 euros for each extra 30 minutes that you spend, as this is what the girl would have earned anyway if she went with another customer?

OK, one guy who is keen on a girl may decide to keep her tied up for long periods of time but as long as he is paying what the girl would have earned anyway then what is the problem that the club has with this?

Some guys may get annoyed that some popular girl may get tied up for hours on end with one customer but if the customer is paying as he goes along then that is his privilege, no? It's tough luck, he got there first! If you are that keen on a particular girl then get there early and tie her up for as long as you want (as long as you keep paying of course).

If the club is keen for a girl to be busy with one customer for no longer than 30 minutes then you could find that a customer is forced to finish with a girl after 30 minutes and she goes back to sit around for a while because no other customers are ready to take her to the room. After some time has elapsed and the customer finds that no one else is taking her then he may decide to take her again but by this time she may have lost some time that she could have been charging had she stayed with that customer.

There is a danger for the club with this policy that customer may feel that the 'momentum' has been lost and as a result he no longer wants to take the girl to room. Whereas if there was not this interruption then he may well have continued (and kept paying).

So I just don't understand this policy. If someone has already paid half an hour for a girl then he should have the priority to keep going (as long as he keeps paying).

One of the posts below even said that someone was charged 120 euros for one hour with a girl where he would have been charged 60 euros if there was a break between two separate 30 minute sessions.

This is just daft. As they say there's nowt as queer as some German Sauna club owner folk!

Free Dude
04-16-13, 21:40
I'm not saying I agree with the policy; but it is the policy (90 for the second half hour BTW, not 60). For some reason they don't want to encourage longer sessions. I've been told that going back downstairs and up again (sometimes?) happens, but I didn't see it. Not the only weird thing; you wouldn't believe how long some of the girls take to indicate they want to go upstairs. Or how explicitly they are trying to avoid working (really quite astounding). As for the reasons, speculation is all we have. But there is a big honking sign that says an hour is 120; the girls confirm this and I've seen the Theke telling a guy he needed to pay 60 more (instead of just 60 for an hour). And this was just last weekend. Maybe it temporary because they are relatively low on girls with some having gone to Alina and Dietzenbach. Going from 3 clubs to 5, can do that to your line up.

Myrrh
04-16-13, 22:07
I'm not saying I agree with the policy; but it is the policy (90 for the second half hour BTW, not 60). For some reason they don't want to encourage longer sessions. I've been told that going back downstairs and up again (sometimes?) happens, but I didn't see it. Not the only weird thing; you wouldn't believe how long some of the girls take to indicate they want to go upstairs. Or how explicitly they are trying to avoid working (really quite astounding). As for the reasons, speculation is all we have. But there is a big honking sign that says an hour is 120; the girls confirm this and I've seen the Theke telling a guy he needed to pay 60 more (instead of just 60 for an hour). And this was just last weekend. Maybe it temporary because they are relatively low on girls with some having gone to Alina and Dietzenbach. Going from 3 clubs to 5, can do that to your line up.I can see from the point of view that if there are only a few really attractive girls with the others all being fodder then these attractive girls could get tied up all the time. A customer may stop going to the club if he finds that he is not able get any time at all with any of these attractive girls. The club does not want to lose customers.

Also, the club's policy may force guys to spread their money among different girls rather than spending it on only a few.

It's slowly making sense (I think?).

But if you get charged 90 euros for the second half an hour then by that reckoning if you stray 5 or 10 minutes over the 30 then you should get charged 15 or 30 euros.

I would have thought that the girls' best tactic would be to try and talk guys into spending more than 30 minutes as that way they make more profit for the club.

PacificRim
04-16-13, 22:37
Myrrh, your discussion below is entirely too logical for VV's policies. I'm not sure any of our explanations have explained their reasoning. My own limited experience is that:

1. There is not a shortage of attractive women.

2. Plenty of the very attractive ones were available.

3. Yes, I agree with Free Dude, they were in no rush to get you up to a room. They were willing to kiss and fondle for long periods in the lounge area. A big contrast from the big Hessen clubs. So that doesn't seem like they are trying to rush you out.

4. I paid 120 for a one-hour session. That included 30 for entry fee. 30 for the first half hour, and 60 for the second half hour. I was informed that if I wanted to take another girl for an hour it would also be 120, which would make the second half hour cost 90, because there would not be another entry fee.

None of this really makes sense to me, but it is what happened to me.

Xplorer007
04-16-13, 23:19
Hi guys,

Is it possible to get to Villa Venus via public transport? Ie bus / tram from the nearest train stations I think the nearest train station is Oberhausen.

Thanks in advance

Free Dude
04-17-13, 05:39
Easy, from the center take tram 903 to Amsterdammerstrasse. It's then about 2km walking, or a bit shorter if you take a shortcut. The easiest route is tp go up Amstrdammerstrasse, at some point the road bends to the right and a couple of hundred meters you have a cross section where you go right on the Conrad Adenauer Strasse. You just continue here until you see the club on your left (the house with an iron gate).

SwingerLover
04-17-13, 09:39
OK, one guy who is keen on a girl may decide to keep her tied up for long periods of time but as long as he is paying what the girl would have earned anyway then what is the problem that the club has with this?Who knows? Maybe this is an excellent way to pluck some pigeons who aren't aware of this policy?


IBut if you get charged 90 euros for the second half an hour then by that reckoning if you stray 5 or 10 minutes over the 30And likewise take the opportunity to loot someone who isn't aware of the time while having fun?

Xplorer007
04-17-13, 10:13
Easy, from the center take tram 903 to Amsterdammerstrasse. It's then about 2km walking, or a bit shorter if you take a shortcut. The easiest route is tp go up Amstrdammerstrasse, at some point the road bends to the right and a couple of hundred meters you have a cross section where you go right on the Conrad Adenauer Strasse. You just continue here until you see the club on your left (the house with an iron gate).Free Dude- thanks for the reply when you say centre do you mean Duisburg? And is it the same tram you have to catch on way back.

Thanks

Hessen Bub
04-17-13, 12:02
1. There is not a shortage of attractive women.

2. Plenty of the very attractive ones were available.Attractive or very attractive compared to what? Oase, GT, Palace, World, Living Room? Or compared to the streetwalkers in Romania? Sorry guys, but 95% of the girls working at Arabella and Grimberg are in the range of 1-5 out of 10 points. They would hardly make any money at the clubs mentioned before. That's why they are working at Arabella or Grimberg and are excepting 30 EUR / 30min including all extras and BB. Let's face the facts.

HB

PacificRim
04-17-13, 12:25
Attractive or very attractive compared to what? Oase, GT, Palace, World, Living Room? Or compared to the streetwalkers in Romania? Sorry guys, but 95% of the girls working at Arabella and Grimberg are in the range of 1-5 out of 10 points. They would hardly make any money at the clubs mentioned before. That's why they are working at Arabella or Grimberg and are excepting 30 EUR / 30min including all extras and BB. Let's face the facts.

HBI haven't been to Grimberg or Arabella, but at VV at least one third were as good as any I have seen at Oase. Keeping in mind that tastes vary, I was more attracted to many of them than girls I have been with at Oase or Colosseum. I've been to DV-Raubach, and VV is nothing like that.

There are many things I can't explain about VV, including why such attractive girls work there. And my timing may have been an anomaly, but when I was there there were many young, gravity-defying Romanians running around. It's not a big club, so the absolute numbers of 8 to 9s is higher at Oase, but not the percentages. And there were none of the old MILFs that I have seen at Oase.

Jymondor
04-17-13, 13:57
Attractive or very attractive compared to what? Oase, GT, Palace, World, Living Room? Or compared to the streetwalkers in Romania? Sorry guys, but 95% of the girls working at Arabella and Grimberg are in the range of 1-5 out of 10 points. They would hardly make any money at the clubs mentioned before. That's why they are working at Arabella or Grimberg and are excepting 30 EUR / 30min including all extras and BB. Let's face the facts.

HBDefinitely not 1-5 especially in V-Venus. I saw there three-four girls under 5, but still young. I saw uglier in World for example. Most of girls are between 5 and 7, two maybe 8. But I agree they would not survive in Big Hesse 5. Not because of appearance but because of communication skills. However I cannot complain in service level in V-Venus. In average it is better in Big Hesse 5. DFK. Is standard, no annoying attempts to upsell, because there is nothing to upsell.

Hessen Bub
04-17-13, 16:46
Definitely not 1-5 especially in V-Venus. I saw there three-four girls under 5, but still young. I saw uglier in World for example. Most of girls are between 5 and 7, two maybe 8. But I agree they would not survive in Big Hesse 5. Not because of appearance but because of communication skills. However I cannot complain in service level in V-Venus. In average it is better in Big Hesse 5. DFK. Is standard, no annoying attempts to upsell, because there is nothing to upsell.What I saw at Arabella and Grimberg was in the range of 1-5. Not to say that there's no 5s or lower at Oase or World. But the majority is above 5 and there's enough girls in the range of 8-10. Sure, prices are much lower (30€ for 30min including anal and CIM which would be 200€ at World) , but what you pay is what you get. If you stick to the standard 30min service it's only 20€ difference I am happy to pay for superior looks). Arabella and Gromnerg Were not for me, I need good looking girls with good service and no upsell. So World, Oase and Sharks do it for me. Maybe Villa Venus does have the better lookimg girls.

HB

Optimist
04-17-13, 16:48
I have also found that quite a number of the girls in these clubs are in the normal FKK looks range (unlike at Dolce Vita Raubach in my experience). Ok. I have definitely never seen a real top notch looker (as HB says if that is important these clubs are not ideal). The service is on average as good as at any FKK (limited mainly by the limited session length, limited language skills, and amateurishness of some girls) However this can lead to a particular sort of nice experience which is rarely found in a high level FKK. So it may be premature to write these clubs off (and you can use a condom) even though they aren't really comparable to the fine facilities and views available at World

Free Dude
04-17-13, 19:51
I really couldn't have said it much better than Optimist has. Definitely less pretty girls (in general) than the big clubs (Oase, World, GT, LR, etc) , but always a few options and sometimes a girl that makes you go: what the hell is she doing here! Sex can be awesome if you have a bit of fun with the (less experienced) girls first; and I can honestly say some of my funnest zimmers this year have been in these clubs (just because of the attitude).

What the tram is concerned: from Duisburg center yes (best to get on at Duisburg Hbf, which is a couple of hundred meters to the right after you exit the station).

Strikesfun
04-17-13, 22:30
Hello Group, Few weeks back the message on the board covered that VV was having some cars that were being damaged. Is there an update and has this past. Thanks

Myrrh
04-17-13, 22:37
So just to clarify, if there is a girl there that you like and you want to maximise your time with her whilst keep the cost down, then you take her for half an hour and then take a break for (fill in the blanks) x number of minutes. Then if she is still free because no one else has claimed her and willing then you can take her again and again and maybe again?

If there are several attractive girls at Villa Venus then there is no problem as it would be like choosing different chocolates from the box. However if not then it would be useful to know whether you can get repeat service with the same girl or whether the girls or the owners would block this or charge you at the higher rate as if you had continued with the same girl for more than 30 minutes with no break at all.

Dark Vader
04-17-13, 23:51
Hello Group, Few weeks back the message on the board covered that VV was having some cars that were being damaged. Is there an update and has this past. ThanksWas there last Sunday and there was broken glass in many of the nearby parking bays although I didn't actually see any cars with broken windows. I was there at 10:00 and my main concern was to avoid puncturing my tyres but strange that noone has got round to clearing up all the glass.

I was expecting fairly slim pickings given the hour but there was a surprisingly good selection when the girls started turning up at around 10:30

Jymondor
04-18-13, 02:24
What I saw at Arabella and Grimberg was in the range of 1-5. Not to say that there's no 5s or lower at Oase or World. But the majority is above 5 and there's enough girls in the range of 8-10. Sure, prices are much lower (30€ for 30min including anal and CIM which would be 200€ at World) , but what you pay is what you get. If you stick to the standard 30min service it's only 20€ difference I am happy to pay for superior looks). Arabella and Gromnerg Were not for me, I need good looking girls with good service and no upsell. So World, Oase and Sharks do it for me. Maybe Villa Venus does have the better lookimg girls.

HBDefinitely lineup in V-Venus is way better than in Arabella and what I quickly saw in Alina. Cannot say about Grimsberg. But please do not expect too much from extras in V-Venus. Not to many girls perform CIM or anal. Aida does anal but covered only. I preferred AOFS rather than covered anal. Bulgarian Ella does anal but in CG only. Another (forgot the name) keeps the hand around her anus to restrict penetration. But no regrets I realize that AO anal and / or CIM included into 30E session is way beyond industry standards.

As I mentioned already V-Venus cannot be compared to Big Hesse clubs. This is not place where you can spend all day. This is just cheap f*king house.

Jymondor
04-18-13, 02:26
Hello Group, Few weeks back the message on the board covered that VV was having some cars that were being damaged. Is there an update and has this past. ThanksThis is a copy of private message I sent to colleague answering similar question:

I read the warning in this thread. I park my car about 200 m away in front of some truck place. Usually few cars or trucks there and I squeeze between them.

I hide my GPS and suction-cup holder into glove box. I leave trunk cover open (normally I rent hatchback Audi A3) making clearly visible that car is empty. So far had no troubles.

Optimist
04-18-13, 09:11
VV parking. This problem seems to be sporadic and not a one off. I don't know how often it happens but this is the fourth occasion I have read about in about four months. I have no idea if it is only in nightime hours or not but I assume the glass is left over from problems the previous night. It could be vandalism, or political (in some cities there have been in recent years instances of "anti-capitalist" attacks on cars) or theft

PacificRim
04-18-13, 17:27
I've been asked in a private message whether I drove or took public transportation to V. Venus, because of the break in reports.

I drove my personal car and parked it on the street three times. Once 1600-2000, once 2000-2300 and once 1000-1100. No problems or evidence of problems. (I didn't notice any broken glass). I do not have German tags on the car. I did not mention this earlier because lack of a break in only indicates that they don't break into every car every time.

Pac

Xplorer007
04-27-13, 21:43
Thanks to Free dude for the info on transport.

Took train to Duisberg then Tram to Amsterdammstrasse club is about 25 mins walk.

Entry 60 euros including one 30 min session and then 30 euros per session. On some days they do 3 sessions for 110 euros that depends on the number of customers they have so pricing structure changes without any notice.

Decent size club, plenty of rooms, very little food and drinks.

13 girls present 6 girls could easily make it to a top FKK.

All girls did AO apart from 2 I was told and 5 girls did anal.

I do not remember the names of all the girls present but do remember the names of the ones I had a session with.

I will rate them with their service not their looks as we all have different tastes.

Session 1 Liza (Romanian) 8/10.

Session 2 Andrea (Romanian) 8/10.

Session 3 Mona (Hungarian) 10/10.

Amazing girls non rushed sessions total GFE all do DFK amazing BBBJ then many different positions they all offered AO, Mona loves anal especially switching from back to front a very filthy girl just the way I like them she spent 5 mins licking my back hole. What a turn ON that was for me! I was in the room with Mona for 45 minutes but still paid 30 euros.

Will definitely repeat.

Vito Corleone
04-28-13, 08:12
Visited VV 3 times end of March & drove away each time due to the broken car glass everywhere. Ran into 2 Germans I know from these AO clubs & they just aviod VV. These guys are well known posters on a certain German Forum.

Not really sure if the glass was from the previous night or what, but all 3 times glass in different locations.

Optimist
04-28-13, 11:23
Xplorer. Nice report thank you.

Parking. Maybe my last comment gave an unfair impression. Like PacificRim says about himself, he has parked several times with no evidence or experience of problems

Banana Boi
04-28-13, 11:49
Is this just a bad neighborhood where car break ins are higher than average or is VV being "targeted"?

Xplorer007
04-28-13, 13:47
Is this just a bad neighborhood where car break ins are higher than average or is VV being "targeted"?Even though I took public transport to the club I was aware of this problem so I did ask a couple of girls who said they drove to the club on a daily basis and parked outside on the main road and never experienced any problems one said as long as you don't block any entrances etc there shouldn't be a problem.

PacificRim
04-28-13, 17:45
Is this just a bad neighborhood where car break ins are higher than average or is VV being "targeted"?If I had to guess I'd say it's the neighborhood. It's industrial and out of the way. It doesn't look like a bad area, but who knows.

BigBuddy69
05-02-13, 09:44
I ve been at VV yesterday. The neighborhood seems ok to me but beware, there is no cash machine in the vicinity and you need to go to the center of the town if you need money.

Not so much girls (about 10) and they look a little bored.

1st session with Bianca, a Dani Daniels lookalike with smaller boobs (best looking girl of the club for me). Fk on the couch, her hand reaches my cock (she even asked me if she could suck me on the couch) and we go in a room. FKs again but not deep ones, she sucks me and then we have bareback sex. I finish in CG, there is around 10 minutes left but she is distant and tidies the room. So we came back to the bar.

I met a french friend, we chat a lot, I want to with Aida (dark skin and super hot stockings) but she is nowhere to be seen. My new friend is a little disapointed about the place like me, I tell him about the club angelique where I was the day before and where the service is far more GFE. We re getting hungry and there is only apples to eat. The girls have a private room to eat pizzas. My friend goes with a yonug Romanian girl, I m still waiting for aida. He comes back, the session was rushed. Aida appears again, I wave at her and she sits next to me. We talk a little, then we kiss (DFK) and we go in a room. Aida is a better kisser than Bianca, I m more excited, she sucks me and then we have bb sex. After about 15 minutes she sucks me again but I m not so excited so she stops and says "katastrophe, tot!". Now I'm not excited anymore, I tell her we have 15 minutes left and I ask her to kiss me again while masturbating me. I get hard again and she rides me until I cum. So better session than Biancas but still rushed.

My friend feels the same about this place, we are getting hungry. I am thinking about a threesome with bianca and one of her friends (saw the two girls on a couch with a man and going in room) but whe eventually leave to club angelique where it was so much better.

So : its cheap, there are some fine looking girls but the service was rushed two times for me. Maybe I ll come back one day for a bareback threesome but nothing else.

Banana Boi
05-02-13, 16:56
Thanks bigbuddy. Were the girls hotter at angelique? How many girls were there?

PacificRim
05-02-13, 23:44
Thanks for your report BigBuddy69. As I've reported, my experience at VV was different from yours. And even the big clubs have days when nothing seems to be going on, but I think variability is greater at smaller clubs like VV.

Another difference can just be differences in taste. I had a session with Aida, too, based on positive reports here. And I agree (with the other reports) that she gives a great session. But I knew from the start that I didn't get a spark from her. I couldn't have told you why not, but she just didn't get me in the pit of my stomach despite doing everything right. When the spark isn't there it's not easy to convince your dick that it is, and "katastrophe, tot" can be the result. But, of course, no one likes to hear it in the middle of a session, even if true.

Free Dude
05-03-13, 13:12
I'd agree the girls in Angelique are hotter; Alina might just have the pretiest face of any girl I've been with (too bad her legs aren't as gazelle like as I'd prefer) , but the prices are far higher as well: assuming you want ao. 80 vs 30 for half an hour. Usually the rtc clubs have a few real lookers, but certainly not that many. I believe Michaela is now in Dietzenbach and if Alina was missing as well, I can see how the options would be limited.

BigBuddy69
05-03-13, 16:46
At angιlique thι girls are the sweetest things on earth and I'm now in love with Kati. I 've given vv a new try this morning and I had a funny ao 3some with two not so good looking girls but very enthusiastic, I'll tell you more later cause I m in a car right now.

Jymondor
05-04-13, 00:46
I'd agree the girls in Angelique are hotterBTW their Duisburg location aka "Angelique Gold" closed. This is announced on their website.

Varenne
05-07-13, 23:26
Entry 60 euros including one 30 min session and then 30 euros per session. On some days they do 3 sessions for 110 euros that depends on the number of customers they have so pricing structure changes without any notice.According to the homepage, session price in Villa Venus has been raised to 40€. Entry price should still be 30€.

BigBuddy69
05-08-13, 09:58
Maybe because there is something to eat now besides apples.

By the way, I m going to relate my last trip to VV last Friday. I had to give back my car at noon so I was in a little hurry. I arrived at 10:40. Too bad, as I entered the club, the beautiful brunette with the glasses and the ponytail was leaving with a guest. There were just 4 or 5 girls available at the time. I picked Asti, BUL, blond, nice face with almond eyes but her body was not my kind. I asked her if she was ok with a threesome, she looked really surprised, she speaked to her friend Ella (BUL, blond, cute face, REALLY chubby) , Ella was ok with it, we joined Ella on her couch, and the kissing started, followed with BJ from the two girls. Then we climbed upstairs and had good sex. The two girls were enthusiastic, avid kissers, gave me goods BJ, the two rode me on CG, and we also had sex on missionary and doggie. They used the harsh paper towels on my cock everytime I switched partners (not really pleasant.) and I finished in a CIM on Ella (Asti doesn't do it). The half hour was over or nearly.

We kissed, cuddled and went down the stairs hand in hand. Actually I saw Aida and Bianca in the bathroom when we went down and I think Aida said "Katastrophe" to Bianca, not very fair of her.

I showered quickly, brought back the key, the cute brunette with the glasses and the ponytail called Asti to kiss me goodbye (what's her name BTW, she's really cute?) , and I left.

So I had more connection with these two "not so good looking" girls than with Aida and Bianca.

To sum up my experience with the VV :

There were at least 4 very good looking girls for me (Aida, Bianca, Glasses ponytail and another brunette) .3 or 4 good looking girls (good body but unremarkable face) and the others were average. There is barely nothing to eat, bad soda to drink, and it's very boring during the intersessions (you can't sit with a girl for too long without taking her to a room I think). Publick kissing and BJ was good. I prefer the long GFE sessions so for me, it's more of a "quick sex" place. I don't know if I'll come back again, especially if they raise the prices. For 40 € I prefer to go to Panthera, ACA or Club Angelique.

Dim Yann
05-10-13, 10:46
Sorry but iam little unfalimiar with these terms.

What does "AO" mean?

Anyway, in these clubs you have full bareback both normal and anal sex?

And you "finish" inside the girl?

Thanks in advance for answering.

Whorist
05-10-13, 18:01
Sorry but iam little unfalimiar with these terms.

What does "AO" mean?

Anyway, in these clubs you have full bareback both normal and anal sex?

And you "finish" inside the girl?

Thanks in advance for answering.AO is alles ohne, meaning everything without.

Plain english sex withoth condom.

Gooroox
05-10-13, 18:42
Sorry but iam little unfalimiar with these terms.

What does "AO" mean?

Anyway, in these clubs you have full bareback both normal and anal sex?

And you "finish" inside the girl?

Thanks in advance for answering.It means Alles Ohne, literally everything without (Bareback Sex)

Jymondor
05-10-13, 21:04
Actually I have another problem with VV, I had a gonorrhea 3 days after.Have you been diagnosed by the doctor, or you think it was gonorrhea by the symptoms?

Myrrh
05-10-13, 22:56
Actually I have another problem with VV, I had a gonorrhea 3 days after.Don't worry gonorrhea is curable. Well at least it was (mostly) the last time I checked but the situation is changing all the time.

http://www.livescience.com/26110-std-gonorrhea-may-become-incurable.html

Maybe it's time to buckle up guys?

Vito Corleone
05-11-13, 00:45
Sorry but iam little unfalimiar with these terms.

What does "AO" mean?

Anyway, in these clubs you have full bareback both normal and anal sex?

And you "finish" inside the girl?

Thanks in advance for answering.AO usually means cream pie is fine. AO lite means you pull out & bust one.

Ed Setra
05-11-13, 01:16
Actually I have another problem with VV, I had a gonorrhea 3 days after. I don't know if I caught it in VV, CA or maybe with a BJ in GT .3 days, not a chance. Go back 7 to 10 days and tell me who was sucking or receiving your cock, that's your gonner friend.

Ed Setra
05-11-13, 01:43
There was some broken glass but not car glass, looked like cheap vodka bottle. There was also some dog shit, not sure if they were harassed or just incontinent.

For those of you who use public transport take the train to Duisburg, walk North ON THE PLATFORM then down the steps and you'll find yourself in a local transport situation. Look for the 903 in the direction of Dinslaken. Get off at Amsterdammerstrasse. Go up Amsterdammerstrasse, which is perpendicular to the direction of the tram. Then, first right, left, right, left, right and keep walking on Konrad Adenauer Ring until you see a brown brick building (#17) beside a drink discounters. Open from 10 AM.

Yakob
05-11-13, 02:49
Actually I have another problem with VV, I had a gonorrhea 3 days after. I don't know if I caught it in VV, CA or maybe with a BJ in GT but if I come back, I won't have AO sex, I think there are too many men doing it in VV because of the price and the risks are too high.BigBuddy69,

You have Gonorrhea, which some people call the The Clap. It called the clap since the prescribed treatment is clapping the penis hard for example with a book against a table or a swift clap with the hands. Ouch!

The idea is to extract the pus from the penis innards.

Is this what you are experiencing?

BigBuddy69
05-11-13, 08:47
Yes I'm clapping my penis right now. Actually I had the symptoms and it has been diagnosed by the doctor.

atEd setra : no one was sucking or fucking me 7 days before, first sex I had in months was at the GT the Monday and I had the symptoms Friday.

Don't worry, it has since been cured by antibiotics.

Yakob
05-11-13, 17:44
Yes I'm clapping my penis right now. Actually I had the symptoms and it has been diagnosed by the doctor.

Don't worry, it has since been cured by antibiotics.BigBuddy69,

Thank you for getting yourself checked. Good you do this. It really hurt when the penis shaft is clapped, especially when the girl manhandle it like it a pole dance pole.

The wonders of modern medicine it cure the mother fuckers.

Keep safe out there. It can be a dangerous place.

Njoy.

SwingerLover
05-12-13, 14:04
I find it completely out of line to write on forum about getting Gonorrhea along with naming places where you got it!

As much as I would apprechiate well-meant warning, it usually comes too late anyway. By the time it is posted here, the women will have their own symptoms and stop working until they are cured again. Cured from a disease that is not their fault! Since they have been healthy before, it's certain that a customer infected them, so the women are not to blame here.

By now, they should be cured again, so no more reason for warning. But it is written here indefinitely now that someone got Gonorrhea at a certain club. Anybody who reads this forum might now be afraid to go to this place, and for a reason that doesn't exist anymore. There is no worse form of badmouthing a place!

So please refrain from posting short-term health problems on a forum where the info still lives on after the problem is solved! Especially when the warning comes too late anyway!

BigBuddy69
05-12-13, 16:12
I'm not blaming the places, I knew the risks and maybe I got it before with BBBJ. It was just an information. I sent all the clubs an email to say I could have passed it to the girls (it can be asymptomatic). Feel free to erase my posts if you think it's inappropriate.

Strikesfun
05-12-13, 18:01
This is not to say that the G report was intended with negative intent. The board is about good fun and sharing. However, life is full of difference experiences and while the board is intended for sharing our choice for fun and risk someone wanting to get even with a bad experience at a club or even worst trying to turn the having these clubs open can use the board for their own interest. Smile

Breadman
05-12-13, 19:47
I find it completely out of line to write on forum about getting Gonorrhea along with naming places where you got it!If you saw one or two girls from one club or agency in the time you show signs of an std, a report has merit. If your going from club to club to club, then its impossible to tell who or where you got it. The risk is there and we all agree to take said risk everytime we take a girl to the room.

BigBuddy69
05-14-13, 16:42
I asked the moderation to remove the posts. Sorry for the inconvenience.

SwingerLover
05-15-13, 14:36
I asked the moderation to remove the posts. Sorry for the inconvenience.I know you meant well, so this was propably the best way. Everybody got warning, even though propably too late, but at least now there is no info that is most likely inaccurate by now on forum any longer. Good work.

Free Dude
05-15-13, 19:54
I know you meant well, so this was propably the best way. Everybody got warning, even though propably too late, but at least now there is no info that is most likely inaccurate by now on forum any longer. Good work.Couldn't disagree moer (especially since no names were mentioned). I find it surprising that the cruisader for AO sex, who doesn't like (correct me if I remember this wrongly) it when non-AO club girls are protected from AO speculation; gets all in a huff when a monger mentiones having caught something. Is it really just because it doesn't fir in your 'more chance to be hit by a bus' philosophy? If you're so intent on having unsafe sex being discussed as the most normal thin in the world, I can't see any reasonable argument why it would be uncalled for to mention it if you catch something (as long as individuals aren't mentioned).

Dreams
05-16-13, 12:48
, I can't see any reasonable argument why it would be uncalled for to mention it if you catch something (as long as individuals aren't mentioned).Because it is totally senseless and meaningless, and it hurts the business, as well as the girls who work there, if mongers believe that they should shun the place.

Gino02
05-16-13, 15:32
Because it is totally senseless and meaningless, and it hurts the business, as well as the girls who work there, if mongers believe that they should shun the place.Isn't it time to move on from this and back to some trip reports with some real info?

Woodypussy1967
05-16-13, 18:35
Why they do not put photos of their girls on their internet website?

PacificRim
05-16-13, 22:00
Why they do not put photos of their girls on their internet website?I take this to be a rhetorical question communicating "Oh, how I wish they would put photos of the girls on their website." Because it is surely not a well-thought-out strategy, but rather that they don't want to be bothered with constantly maintaining their website.

Jymondor
05-17-13, 00:06
Why they do not put photos of their girls on their internet website?Some photos available here: http://www.freiercafe.com/showthread.php?t=22927

I am not sure can I post links to the other forums or not, but this is German language forum.

Woofiee
05-17-13, 12:11
Because it is totally senseless and meaningless, and it hurts the business, as well as the girls who work there, if mongers believe that they should shun the place.If someone caught something at a place, yes. It's time to shun it and close the joint.

Too many people here have this notion of some kind of allegiance to a club or a girl. If you're saying you'd sacrifice us and our health to save face…I'm not sure what to think (but it won't be kind, I can tell you that.)

Wanking
05-18-13, 18:08
Some photos available here:

http://www.freiercafe.com/showthread.php?t=22927

I am not sure can I post links to the other forums or not, but this is German language forum.Man those pics are great, plus I love the pussy shots that you normally don't get on Club Websites, due to Hoormanys strange anti porn Laws.

Jymondor
05-19-13, 00:58
Man those pics are great, plus I love the pussy shots that you normally don't get on Club Websites, due to Hoormanys strange anti porn Laws.Pussishots available on Lancelot's, F66's and Palast's (Freiburg) web sites. I assume this is the same franchise because web-site style is very similar and they have cross-references each to other.

Breadman
05-19-13, 02:40
Man those pics are greatFrom a picture standpoint, those pictures are pathetic. Take a look at the photo's at Teenyland.

http://www.teenyland-koeln.de/html/?q=teenys

If you've got the choice between visiting one of these two places (VV vs Teenyland) , which set of photo's would win you over?

Jymondor
05-19-13, 03:09
If you've got the choice between visiting one of these two places (VV vs Teenyland)I don't think these places are even comparable. Different approach, different philosophy. Even knowing that Teenyland's lineup is way better I would chose FKK club simply because I prefer FKK format over the brothels. There is no problems to book a girl for 1 hr in Toronto. Even with much higher Toronto prices it is still more economical that FKK tour to Germany. But FKK not available in North America, thats why I fly to Germany every second month.

MrAdams
05-19-13, 11:38
Sorry guys to fuck this thread up now, but what is a AO club?

WhyNot78
05-20-13, 00:07
Sorry guys to fuck this thread up now, but what is a AO club?AO = Alles ohne, which means : everything without.

In other word CIM, cum in pussy.

Sportsman
05-20-13, 01:45
Sorry guys to fuck this thread up now, but what is a AO club?Scroll down to reply in post #127.

Dreams
05-20-13, 12:06
From a picture standpoint, those pictures are pathetic. Take a look at the photo's at Teenyland.

http://www.teenyland-koeln.de/html/?q=teenys

If you've got the choice between visiting one of these two places (VV vs Teenyland) , which set of photo's would win you over?Yes they are, but at least they are not photoshopped.

And the girls are far better in real than of those pics.

Dreams
05-20-13, 12:10
If someone caught something at a place, yes. It's time to shun it and close the joint.

Too many people here have this notion of some kind of allegiance to a club or a girl. If you're saying you'd sacrifice us and our health to save face. I'm not sure what to think (but it won't be kind, I can tell you that.) Ha ha, most ridiculous comment I have read since a while. Just being realsitic, there are NO clubs where you cannot get STDs, and when and if you get it, the bacteria does not come with a tag saying which girl or club it came form.

Breadman
05-20-13, 16:02
I don't think these places are even comparable. Different approach, different philosophy. Even knowing that Teenyland's lineup is way better I would chose FKK club simply because I prefer FKK format over the brothels.You misunderstand, I wasn't including the link to teenyland so as to compare an AO club to a brothel. I was just comparing the photo's. At the time I didn't have club angelique's website handy. I was just trying to say as a marketing strategy, those photo's don't encourage the average sex seeker to visit the club. Compared to Angelique's girls, it pales in comparison.

I'm not against AO, I'm against AO with unattractive escorts.

Jymondor
05-20-13, 16:33
You misunderstand, I wasn't including the link to teenyland so as to compare an AO club to a brothel. I was just comparing the photo's. At the time I didn't have club angelique's website handy. I was just trying to say as a marketing strategy, those photo's don't encourage the average sex seeker to visit the club. Compared to Angelique's girls, it pales in comparison.

I'm not against AO, I'm against AO with unattractive escorts.OK, got it.

Sometimes I don't understand why majority of the clubs do not engage marketing power of good photos. Because of good photosets I visited first time for example Angelique and Babylon (Elsdorf). I seriously considered to visit F66 / Lancelot / Palast because of excellent photosets in spit of those clubs overpriced. Only reports on this boards changed my mind.

Now about porno restricting laws. Some clubs sensore images, some not. What are German regulations here?

SwingerLover
05-20-13, 21:38
Ha ha, most ridiculous comment I have read since a while. Just being realsitic, there are NO clubs where you cannot get STDs, and when and if you get it, the bacteria does not come with a tag saying which girl or club it came form.
If someone caught something at a place, yes. It's time to shun it and close the joint.

Too many people here have this notion of some kind of allegiance to a club or a girl. If you're saying you'd sacrifice us and our health to save face. I'm not sure what to think (but it won't be kind, I can tell you that.)
Because it is totally senseless and meaningless, and it hurts the business, as well as the girls who work there, if mongers believe that they should shun the place.
Couldn't disagree moer (especially since no names were mentioned). I find it surprising that the cruisader for AO sex, who doesn't like (correct me if I remember this wrongly) it when non-AO club girls are protected from AO speculation; gets all in a huff when a monger mentiones having caught something. Is it really just because it doesn't fir in your 'more chance to be hit by a bus' philosophy? If you're so intent on having unsafe sex being discussed as the most normal thin in the world, I can't see any reasonable argument why it would be uncalled for to mention it if you catch something (as long as individuals aren't mentioned).Oh, but there was a name mentioned, the name of the club. Which I did not repeat on purpose!

I'm all with you with issuing warning where it's appropriate and still makes sense. And, Woofiee, it's time to shun a woman or close down a place if they know about the disease and willigly go around spreading it with no regard for others. But that wasn't the case here, and with Gonorrhea it propably never is.

Because by the time it appears on forum, the women who should have caught it are already undergoing treatment and are not working at that time. (And if they still are and get caught, they will definitely not only be shut down, but will be subjected to criminal prosecution! Knowingly spreading around an STD is a crime in Germany! In such a case, I welcome open warnings very much.)

But in a case of Gonorrhea, which was surely being transmitted there by a guy and was not initialy the women's fault, it's not warranted to shun them indefinitely for an infection that's cured after a week or two. But the post on the forum will remain indefinitely.

Simple question: How would you feel if someone knew that you had gotten it, and even though you are cured now everybody would shun you indefinitely?

So I still think posting it here (although too late) as a short term warning was propably okay, but if the warning would still be on now, it would be counterproductive. I still think it's good that the original report is gone now.

I also think that if every place that ever had any trouble with Gonorrhea would be closed down, then there wouldn't be any left at all that are open for more than a year. I'd rather recommend to approach this from the other direction: If you catch a guy at a club or a party that has gotten an STD, then call the police on him, instead of just kicking him out!

Woofiee
05-21-13, 08:57
Ha ha, most ridiculous comment I have read since a while. Just being realsitic, there are NO clubs where you cannot get STDs, and when and if you get it, the bacteria does not come with a tag saying which girl or club it came form.
Oh, but there was a name mentioned, the name of the club. Which I did not repeat on purpose!

I'm all with you with issuing warning where it's appropriate and still makes sense. And, Woofiee, it's time to shun a woman or close down a place if they know about the disease and willingly go around spreading it with no regard for others. But that wasn't the case here, and with Gonorrhea it propably never is.

Because by the time it appears on forum, the women who should have caught it are already undergoing treatment and are not working at that time. (And if they still are and get caught, they will definitely not only be shut down, but will be subjected to criminal prosecution! Knowingly spreading around an STD is a crime in Germany! In such a case, I welcome open warnings very much.)

But in a case of Gonorrhea, which was surely being transmitted there by a guy and was not initialy the women's fault, it's not warranted to shun them indefinitely for an infection that's cured after a week or two. But the post on the forum will remain indefinitely.

Simple question: How would you feel if someone knew that you had gotten it, and even though you are cured now everybody would shun you indefinitely?

So I still think posting it here (although too late) as a short term warning was propably okay, but if the warning would still be on now, it would be counterproductive. I still think it's good that the original report is gone now.

I also think that if every place that ever had any trouble with Gonorrhea would be closed down, then there wouldn't be any left at all that are open for more than a year. I'd rather recommend to approach this from the other direction: If you catch a guy at a club or a party that has gotten an STD, then call the police on him, instead of just kicking him out!I never suggested we had to "shun" a woman, so please stop changing the argument to personalize this and make me sound like a Puritan. I can't tell if Dreams is naive or willfully ignorant, but if he thinks that it's only the problem of the guy who catches it, he's a danger to us all. He's emblematic of the AO conversation and the no-rules mentality in the FKK section. It's what killed-off the partytreff section for many of us who used to post in there. Let's be honest, there are far fewer posters now in the partytreff segment what's there tends to be more about coming events, cancelled events, misrepresented ads and generally poor performers. If they show up (with the occasional exception. To be fair). There's a real feeling of an insular, clubhouse mentality.

I'm speaking specifically about businesses or events that don't sufficiently test their women, and specifically I'm speaking about many of the listings I see now in the Partytreff section about AO gang-bang parties, glory-holes and parking-lot events that can't possibly be safe. Do I see them as unsafe? Yeah. I do. They have dangerous sex and now they're telling me how much effective safety I should expect in an FKK club, lowering the standard for all of us.

Speak for yourselves and that's fine, but don't dare tell me that I can't tell when or where I caught something. I don't bother mongering here in Europe much, so if I caught something it's likely that I'd know *exactly* from where I got it at.

Would you contact them and tell them you contracted Gonorrhea from one of their regulars? Or is that just the price of admission to the AO club?

Would / Should the FKK be closed down? If it's a one-off and they remove the threat, no way. If it's from sloppy testing practices, what do you do. Give a warning? That should be the case, but we also are smart enough to know there are gangs and criminal elements that run these, and a lot of greased palms in the business. DO I trust them to do the right thing? Do mongers contact the police? Does anything actually happen?

The only advantage we have is shared information, so what I want to know is why, when there's a threat, would you not name the club?

You want to talk fairness, but you're also being completely unfair to we mongers who you may be letting walk in harm's way.

Dreams
05-21-13, 10:35
. I can't tell if Dreams is naive or willfully ignorant,FYI, I have both PhD and MD. And I have been mongering all over the world since 40 + years.

BTW, you are posting all this crap on a specific thread about specific clubs. Have you ever been to any of those? If not, what about moving your comments on a more specific thread, for instance threads dealing with health and safety?

Free Dude
05-21-13, 18:30
Personally, I think it is good in these threads to show the risks; ie sometimes you can catch something. Saying you caught something in an AO club or AO gangbang does nothing else but relating the experience that it can happen. That something will be done against it is great, but it doesn't hurt to remind ourselves about the risks sometimes. There is plenty reports that don't mention catching anything.

Woofiee
05-21-13, 18:33
FYI, I have both PhD and MD. And I have been mongering all over the world since 40 + years.Intelligence and education aren't necessarily synonymous. One would hope so, but boards like these thrive on hyperbole and boasts. I often consider them a zero-sum-gain. Incidentally. 30+ years mongering and my doctorate is from a top-5 US school in Physics. Is it a requirement to rebut your insipid argument?


BTW, you are posting all this crap on a specific thread about specific clubs. Have you ever been to any of those? If not, what about moving your comments on a more specific thread, for instance threads dealing with health and safety?The conversation had moved on from the venue to a discussion of whether a venue which seemingly had infected a member here should be disclosed. My argument concerns itself with your responsibility towards public health in such an instance, which is in accordance with the thread.

If some mod wants to move all the threads to a more suitable segment, let that be so. Until that time, this is where it started, and this is where it will be discussed. Just because you no longer want to discuss it is not my problem.

Dreams
05-22-13, 09:54
Would be nice to have some reports from the experience, prices, girls, service in any of those clubs.

Would be a welcome change from the crap that has recently pollluted this thread (and I apologise for having contributed to it, should have stayed away.)

Free Dude
05-22-13, 19:28
Someone caught an std in one of these clubs and VV is now charging 40 for half an hour; Crema and Maja seem to have moved to VV from Arabella. All relevant I would say.

Dreams
05-25-13, 11:20
Someone caught an std in one of these clubs

Crema and Maja seem to have moved to VV from Arabella. All relevant I would say.So "someone" got an STD, and some girls "seem" to have moved.

Any REAL relevant info there, please? Some info that YOU have personally got, not jut repeating things that you read elsewhere?

STDs" I have last year got gonorhea from BBBJ from one girl in Mainhattan,"

That's a recent quote from the general FKK thread. Bottom line, you can catch an STD everywhere, what matters is what you do, not where you do it.

CPR2011
05-26-13, 21:01
Hey guys,,

I'm headed to Germany in a month an have been RTFF but I can't find the answer in this thread. Do these three clubs test you when you enter with one of the rapid HIV tests or any other STD tests before letting the guys in? If so is that charge included in the entry price or if not, what is the cost for the test?

I'd like to try one of these places but I'd be more comfortable with it if they're testing guys prior to entry.

Also are any of these places reachable without a rental car? Could I take a train from FRA?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Free Dude
05-26-13, 21:07
Why are you so worried about the risks of AO being mentioned once in a while? As for the other part, how do you think forums work? Especially this kind of 'once in a blue moon in Germany' forum; people that keep up to date on more informative places and / or talk to regular clubvisitors might be willing to share that information.

For anyone who knows about these clubs, Crema moving is a fairly big thing since she was the most popular girl in Arabella (and for her first few months there she was probably the most popular girl in any of the AO clubs.

But if you insist:

Line up is growing in VV with 14 girls this Sunday (pretty good for a Sunday) and all girls bar Andrea offering AO.

Some girls missing and no Crema or Maja, but Maja's sister Lilly was there (also used to be at Arabella).

Three Bulgarian girls from Grimberg (Natalya, Mary and?) were there, but are going back to Grimberg soon.

Bianca, Mara, Monika, Aida, Florentina (could easily work in any other club) were also there. I can't think of the 4 others right now.

Some more info; price now 40 per session, but on mondays back to 30 and no entry fee (according to a girl, didn't see it mentioned anywhere else).

Some guys seem to like fuck in other people's sperm (schlamschieben it's called) and try to catch girls before they go clean up; some also like to do some DATY first, but that might be the end of any DFK with some of the Romanians.

One of the girls I asked after apparantly caught an STD as well; the kind that gets progressively worse for 9 months, and you never really get rid of it.

Captain Dan's Alises
05-26-13, 21:43
Some guys seem to like fuck in other people's sperm (schlamschieben it's called) and try to catch girls before they go clean up; some also like to do some DATY first, but that might be the end of any DFK with some of the Romanians.Sounds like a real classy joint. Can't wait to visit. Maybe after they tear the place down.

One of the girls I asked after apparantly caught an STD as well; the kind that gets progressively worse for 9 months, and you never really get rid of it.[/QUOTE]That hooker is lucky if thats all she catches!

SwingerLover
05-27-13, 01:29
I'm speaking specifically about businesses or events that don't sufficiently test their women, and specifically I'm speaking about many of the listings I see now in the Partytreff section about AO gang-bang parties, glory-holes and parking-lot events that can't possibly be safe. Do I see them as unsafe? Yeah. I do. They have dangerous sex and now they're telling me how much effective safety I should expect in an FKK club, lowering the standard for all of us.What standard? What safety? Like I wrote elsewhere: The lung cancer risk for and from the chainsmoking girls at some places are far bigger than the risk of contracting an STD. Getting damaged from travelling to Germany from abroad is also more likely than getting infected with an STD. As for AIDS, I think it's even more likely to get struck by lightning than contracting it at an AO-Party, tested or not. I think it's unsafe to board an airplane and fly halfway across the world, as I think it's unsafe to sail across the ocean on a ship. So I don't do it. But I don't go running around telling everybody about how unsafe I consider flying and cruising, whether they want to hear it or not. But when it comes to AO-sex, everybody who is too scared from decades of brainwashing propaganda thinks he has to issue warning based on his beliefs, whether it's correct or not or if it's wanted or not. If you don't want to do it, fine. Then don't. Continue playing with rubbers if you like. (Damn, I now just sound like nearly every AO-couple that has a profile on portals like Poppen de. They also need to constantly remind some selfproclaimed moralizers that they have no business to tell them how to live their sexlife.)

As for the AO-Calendar in the Partytreff forum: That started out as MY personal partylist, which got expanded some due to the interest it found and some posts from a few other guys. And since my maps get nearly 2000 hits per month by now, as unlisted maps with links from only two fora, I'd say that there are enough people interested in AO to keep them updated continuously. If you don't like it, don't read it. I specifically started the Calendar thread to seperate those party lists from other threads. The fact that there are by now over 10 threads about Bareback / AO on ISG also suggests a huge enough interest to justify it. Wanking already suggested to create a seperate Germany AO forum, but Jackson obviously didn't go for that. So we will continue in the Partytreff Clubs forum as before. Too bad that this discussion started in this thread here in the FKK Clubs forum, but that's just the way it is. And for what it's worth: Lately I'm hearing more and more stories that AO happens at nearly every FKK too, only quietly and covertly and mostly with regular customers.


Speak for yourselves and that's fine, but don't dare tell me that I can't tell when or where I caught something. I don't bother mongering here in Europe much, so if I caught something it's likely that I'd know *exactly* from where I got it at.No. I deny that you know *exactly* where you got it, if you ever should have gotten it. I for one could never tell where I had contracted Gonorrhea. I did however check on the couples and two of the single guys I last had bareback sex and AO Gangbangs with back then, neither the women nor the guys that fucked them after I creampied their already filled pussies contracted Gonorrhea. So I didn't get it from them and they didn't get it from me. So where did I get it from? I haven't the faintest idea! By now, I'm even open to the possibility that Gonorrhea, although a venereal disease, is not transmitted sexually; at least not initially. Kinda like a stomach bug is not transmitted by food. Did anyone have similar experiences? And please, only replies from people who already had to deal with this crappy infection! Anybody else doesn't know what they are talking about anyway. Because I would really like to know how I had gotten it, to avoid any future infections. Because I surely did not get it from fucking. Why else would I be the only one among those I had sex and parties with in the week before the outbreak?

I also think any further discussion on this subject matter should be exchanged in a neutral thread, like the General Info thread or the Bareback AO thread.


Would you contact them and tell them you contracted Gonorrhea from one of their regulars? Or is that just the price of admission to the AO club?

Would / Should the FKK be closed down? If it's a one-off and they remove the threat, no way. If it's from sloppy testing practices, what do you do. Give a warning? That should be the case, but we also are smart enough to know there are gangs and criminal elements that run these, and a lot of greased palms in the business. DO I trust them to do the right thing? Do mongers contact the police? Does anything actually happen?Rest assured, I would have! I was at a party in 2012, where I had heard an hour or so after it happened that they had kicked a guy out, because one of the women had noticed the yellowish dripping right before his first session. If I had learned about this while he was still there, he would NOT have left, except in handcuffs! And for the record: It was not in one of the clubs this thread is about and I won't mention the place where it happened, because doing so would be completely useless by now. And if I would have mentioned it in my report about that party from last year, then that info would still be on forum, with no purpose than to still ruin the reputation of the place. Even though there is not much to ruin there, but for other reasons.


The only advantage we have is shared information, so what I want to know is why, when there's a threat, would you not name the club?

You want to talk fairness, but you're also being completely unfair to we mongers who you may be letting walk in harm's way.Again, what good is a warning that comes too late? Sharing information is good, but only as long as it is still true. But with a forum like this, the information still lives on and badmouths the place long after the infection is gone. So aside from being victimized by an irresponsible guy who brings the infection there, they now also have to suffer from info that by now is out of date. All this contingent on Gonorrhea actually being transmitted sexually. I would not let anybody walk into harms way. But I won't issue warning about something that isn't true or current anymore either. First thing you do is track back the people you had sex with during the incubation time and inform them and share information with them. Then you have to be SURE about where you got it, before shouting out your information to the world at large. I did all that and came up empty last year. But I was given some kind of an evil eye at a place where I had a remote suspicion about, when I got there the next time. Because I had send them all to the doctor for nothing with voicing my concern to them after I had gotten infected elsewhere. So what good would it have done if I had put my suspicion of forum? And it would still be on here today?

Lastly, it was said in another thread that a certain woman might be infected as well. That info wasn't even true, but it still is on forum. As are the denials and clarifications I added on after checking up on her. It turned out that it was a case of mistaken identity with two women who had the same name. And I still don't know if the info on the original woman was true. So please, use a little common sense before posting anything about anybody contracting anything and make sure you get the facts straight. Then think about how you would feel if you were falsely proclaimed as being disease-ridden on a forum. I had my share of cybermobbing on a completely different (non-sexual) matter already, I can assure you it's no fun at all if you read some stuff about yourself or hear some romours about yourself that aren't true.


Why are you so worried about the risks of AO being mentioned once in a while?And why do you think they have to be mentioned every once in a while? Whereas other way more common risks (smoking, flying, skydiving, motorcycling and so forth) are not mentioned at all. But AO-sex, hey: Here we have something which we can socially accepted use to trample on the lifestyle of a minority without being labeled sexist or racist or chauvinist or some other -ist. Whoooo, they do something that the vast majority of the population has been scared into not-to-do. Better give them warning, before they start to proclaim that the world isn't flat.

Breadman
05-27-13, 09:23
There's risk's involved in this hobby, especially since we are seeing working girls. Anytime any newbie asks what the risks are we are all ready to pipe in and say "there's no risk if you stay at home". So why is it that guys who frequently get AO service refuse to acknowledge the fact that their risks are highest?

I have to say, this thread is now the AO thread in the Fkk forum. You throw in three different clubs in the headline and then add 'nrw ao clubs' to the end you've just made a general area to chat about AO clubs. Look at the reports on the clubs themselves, you can't even tell what club half the guys are refering to in their post.

To summarize guys want to talk about AO clubs but don't want to be reminded about the higher risks associated with this type of service.

Dreams
05-30-13, 10:43
To summarize guys want to talk about AO clubs but don't want to be reminded about the higher risks associated with this type of service.Correct. And we don't want this no more than you would like to be constantly reimded of the "immorality" of indulging in the hobby by feminists. Guys who come to the Ao threads to preach agaisnt AO are as intolerant that those feminists coming to sex forum to preach agaisnt prostitution.

Free Dude
05-30-13, 16:57
Correct. And we don't want this no more than you would like to be constantly reimded of the "immorality" of indulging in the hobby by feminists. Guys who come to the Ao threads to preach agaisnt AO are as intolerant that those feminists coming to sex forum to preach agaisnt prostitution.Sharing relevant experiences is not the same as preaching. Nobody has been preaching here, just relating experiences. Nobody mentioning anything about morality eather.

Woofiee
05-30-13, 23:41
Correct. And we don't want this no more than you would like to be constantly reimded of the "immorality" of indulging in the hobby by feminists. Guys who come to the Ao threads to preach agaisnt AO are as intolerant that those feminists coming to sex forum to preach agaisnt prostitution.Sorry. Let me be more clear: You're [Deleted by Admin] and you're endangering us all.

Your comparison is specious and disregards my position entirely. This was about a person who likely caught something at a club and whether they were right in not saying where it happened.

These AO events need to be run scrupulously, and from what I read here on ISG they're not. Of course some guys get into that sense of danger, but then they also go to other clubs, as do the girls. Whether you admit it or not, this particular practice will spread problems to other venues and in the long run weakens the sport.

If you can't figure this out, you're just an ostrich with their head in the sand. And their little head in the guillotine.

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely antagonistic. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

Captain Dan's Alises
05-31-13, 00:33
These AO events need to be run scrupulously, and from what I read here on ISG they're not. Of course some guys get into that sense of danger, but then they also go to other clubs, as do the girls. Whether you admit it or not, this particular practice will spread problems to other venues and in the long run weakens the sport.

If you can't figure this out, you're just an ostrich with their head in the sand. And their little head in the guillotine.Seems to me that there is too much talk about these small, disgusting little clubs and that this type of venue should be in discussed in some sorta dark and dingey sub-directory away from chat about the big time FKK and Sauna Clubs. That way the dimwits who partake in this type of disgusting unsafe behaviour can crawl around in the dark away from normal type regular guy mongers.

Dreams
05-31-13, 10:48
Sorry. Let me be more clear: You're an idiot and you're endangering us all.

Your comparison is specious and disregards my position entirely. This was about a person who likely caught something at a club and whether they were right in not saying where it happened.

These AO events need to be run scrupulously, and from what I read here on ISG they're not. Of course some guys get into that sense of danger, but then they also go to other clubs, as do the girls. Whether you admit it or not, this particular practice will spread problems to other venues and in the long run weakens the sport.

If you can't figure this out, you're just an ostrich with their head in the sand. And their little head in the guillotine.Have heard this crap since 30 years. Still have my head well posted on my neck, thanks.

I stick to everything I have said. Everyday somebody catches something in every club. If you don't understand that, it is you who is endangering others. And whether somebody singles out a club or not does not change anything to those facts.

If you come to this thread to say what you say, it is preaching.

You are convinced that what you do is fine, and what other do is wrong.

If you were a politician in power, you would be a dictator.

Cheers

Breadman
05-31-13, 20:22
Seems to me that there is too much talk about these small, disgusting little clubs and that this type of venue should be in discussed in some sorta dark and dingey sub-directory away from chat about the big time FKK and Sauna Clubs. That way the dimwits who partake in this type of disgusting unsafe behaviour can crawl around in the dark away from normal type regular guy mongers.No beating around the Bush (pun intended) here, couldn't have said it better myself.


FYI, I have both PhD and MDCan't imagine any doctor giving you the ok to fuck prostitutes without a condom.

Kris Kras
06-01-13, 09:45
After the reports of our morality crusaders, I'd like to add how lucky we are to be able to have a full GFE with a girl beautifull young girl of your choice who is smiling at you waiting in her sofa for only 30 euro. You fuck her with or without protection, thats your choice.

Anyway, Arabella has become my favorite destination. I've had many of the wonderfull girls. Crema is (was, since she is now in Venus) of course the absolute top. But in fact you can choose any of the women in this club and you will be satisfied. They all kiss with tongue, they all suck an they all go bare if you want. On top of that their services are clearly mentioned with their pictures on the front desk. And I've never seen an unfriendly attitude.

My favorite is Andrea. This girl gives it all, including hardcore anal sex.

Last week I took the teen Bonny. SHe's tiny and slender and her ass almost fit in one hand. We were kissing and fondling on the coach before she bent over to blow me. She then sat on my lap and gave me a lapdance. She took my dick, shove it in her thight pussy and started riding me. In public. I had seen more of these public sessions in the lounge but it was actually my first one. After a while I decided to move on to a room, where we continued to have hot sex in any position that I wanted. As she did't want me to come inside her pussy, we finished with a CIM after more excellent sucking and licking of my dick and balls. .

I add some pictures of the general atmosphere in the club.

Dreams
06-01-13, 10:00
Can't imagine any doctor giving you the ok to fuck prostitutes without a condom.This shows that you lack imagination.

Dreams
06-01-13, 10:09
Seems to me that there is too much talk about these small, disgusting little clubs and that this type of venue should be in discussed in some sorta dark and dingey sub-directory away from chat about the big time FKK and Sauna Clubs. That way the dimwits who partake in this type of disgusting unsafe behaviour can crawl around in the dark away from normal type regular guy mongers.We were happy discussing those clubs that you call "disgusting" in their own thread until people like you and a few others came in to tell us how disgusting we were. We did not invite you in.

Have you EVER been into one those clubs? Or are you just adding some useless comments from your dirty sofa?

Just stay in your "noble" thread, where you believe you are in a safe environement, until you also catch something. You won't believe it though, I am sure.

Free for you to pay 2-3 times more, in the belief that you are safe. Only naive guys believe that AO is not offered in big FKKs. And that STDs are not rampant there too, especially since BBBjs are the norms.

At the end, whether it is in "disgusting" little clubs, or "big " FKKs, it is up to the monger to choose protected or unprotected sex.

Dreams
06-01-13, 10:12
After the reports of our morality crusaders, I'd like to add how lucky we are to be able to have a full GFE with a girl beautifull young girl of your choice who is smiling at you waiting in her sofa for only 30 euro. You fuck her with or without protection, thats your choice.

Anyway, Arabella has become my favorite destination. I've had many of the wonderfull girls. Crema is (was, since she is now in Venus) of course the absolute top. But in fact you can choose any of the women in this club and you will be satisfied. They all kiss with tongue, they all suck an they all go bare if you want. On top of that their services are clearly mentioned with their pictures on the front desk. And I've never seen an unfriendly attitude.

My favorite is Andrea. This girl gives it all, including hardcore anal sex.

Last week I took the teen Bonny. SHe's tiny and slender and her ass almost fit in one hand. We were kissing and fondling on the coach before she bent over to blow me. She then sat on my lap and gave me a lapdance. She took my dick, shove it in her thight pussy and started riding me. In public. I had seen more of these public sessions in the lounge but it was actually my first one. After a while I decided to move on to a room, where we continued to have hot sex in any position that I wanted. As she did't want me to come inside her pussy, we finished with a CIM after more excellent sucking and licking of my dick and balls. .

I add some pictures of the general atmosphere in the club.Thanks, mate. At last a report, who is just informative, and does not comment and criticise other's behavior.

I have been last to Venus and Arabella a few months back. Unlucky as I was, I missed Crema at both those occasions. But enjoyed Aida and a few others.

Myrrh
06-01-13, 10:34
You fuck her with or without protection, thats your choice. They all kiss with tongue, they all suck an they all go bare if you want. On top of that their services are clearly mentioned with their pictures on the front desk.

She took my dick, shove it in her thight pussy and started riding me. In public. I had seen more of these public sessions in the lounge but it was actually my first one. After a while I decided to move on to a room.

I add some pictures of the general atmosphere in the club.Just to clarify a few things.

They do not all fuck without protection. Some, including all of the Dominican Republic girls, state on the website that they do not do AO.

Only a proportion of the girls (when I visited only 6) have their photos and details of their services posted near the front desk. The details of the services that the girls provide is on the website but no photos and it is not clear that these are fully up to date and complete as girls of course come and go.

My understanding was that some public affection is allowed for example kissing, caressing and even a blow job on the couches. But the expectation of management is that this is only brief, will not involve full sex and that you will move to the rooms soon afterwards. I also understand that you are only allowed 30 minutes per session and that this 30 minutes will begin once you initiate any sexual activity like a blow job or hand job on the couches.

Also, I did not realise that they allowed the taking of photos inside the club so I assume this was clandestine?

Woofiee
06-01-13, 10:48
Personally I think this thread should be deleted or at the very least moved to the Germany Partytreff Forum. The Bottom Feeders over in that section would be over the moon about these lousy clubs.Agreed, although I'd take it a step further and remove all promotion of unsafe sex practices from the board. The Partytreff section *used* to have more information and would be worth going through. Some clubs, like the Pauschalclub. De line. Are quite high-quality and more like a flat-rate FKK, so I participate there as I can. Otherwise; the AO gang there has turned that sub into a wasteland. Completely useless.

And now they're here.

Myrrh
06-01-13, 10:55
Personally I think this thread should be deleted or at the very least moved to the Germany Partytreff Forum. The Bottom Feeders over in that section would be over the moon about these lousy clubs.I am struggling to see the logic behind the objection to a club that is called FKK Arabella being in the 'Germany-FKK Clubs' section of this forum [head scratching].

The other clubs in this thread, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg, operate a similar business model of paying per session (FKK model) rather than flat rate (partytreff model) and so by that logic they belong in the FKK section as well.

In any case why is it assumed that bareback sex is a partytreff issue alone? It is common knowledge that bareback sex happens in most or even all of the FKK clubs dependent on the particular girl. The clubs in these threads are perhaps more honest in acknowledging a practice that regularly goes on in FKK clubs. This way you will know which clubs and girls definitely do it rather than having to find out through trial and error and suffering the awkwardness or embarrassment of asking a girl for a service which she finds distasteful or does not provide.

Hessen Bub
06-01-13, 11:57
Personally I think this thread should be deleted or at the very least moved to the Germany Partytreff Forum. The Bottom Feeders over in that section would be over the moon about these lousy clubs.Deleting the thread will not change reality. If you don't want to fuck BB just don't visit AO clubs and use a condom in the other clubs. Trying to convince BB lovers to use a condom isn't going to work. There's plenty on non BB locations in Germany, just visit these. Keep in mind that BB happens in all the clubs, girls doing it you would never guess they do. If you use a condom you are OK. You might catch a lttle sperm when doing DFK with a girl who did CIM before or if you DATY a girl who had CIP before. Bad luck. Disgusting? Don't do DFK or DATY. Or stay away from P6.

HB

SwingerLover
06-01-13, 16:57
Well, I've just had enough of those insulting and derogatory comments here. Do you people even know that there is something like forum rules on ISG?

I just reported all 3 of you to Jackson for your violations and asked that the author of "the dimwits who partake in this type of disgusting unsafe behaviour can crawl around in the dark away from normal type regular guy mongers" be kicked off the forum for his disgusting remark!

The one who seconded this insult should be downgraded to regular member again, so that his reports would be monitored again for the next six months. Same goes for the one that publicly called dreams an "idiot" on open forum, which would make him subject to criminal prosucution in Germany, if that violation was reported to the police! And then he also writes that he'd "take it a step further and remove all promotion of unsafe sex practices from the board", which is also a gross violation of the forums rules. We'll see how Jackson will handle my complaints.

What's the matter with you people? What business do you have to tell others how to live their sexlifes? If you don't like the AO-threads, then don't read them. But leave the members who like them in peace! Just as a reminder, here's a link to the forum's posting guidelines, where it explicitly says "NO Safe Sex Complaints": http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/custompages.php?pageid=custompages_forumrules#postingguidelines

The line about "that this type of venue should be in discussed in some sorta dark and dingey sub-directory away from chat about the big time FKK and Sauna Clubs." makes me wonder about FKKs in general. I've never been to one, so I can't tell about the attitude of the guys who visit those places, except those guys who write here and the nice ones I personally met at other, allegedly "disgusting" places. But from what little I've read on the FKK-Clubs forum until now, most of it in this thread here, I think I will keep on avoiding the FKKs. Just in case those remarks here are any reflection on the attitude being displayed by maybe other guys at those clubs too.

I have never read anything similar in the regular Germany forum, nor in the Germany Partytreff Clubs forum, like I read in this thread here today. Do large clubs cause some kind of delusions of grandeur?

I'd rather party at those "small, disgusting little clubs" from the Partytreff Clubs forum where almost everybody is friendly and treats others with appropriate respect and kindness. And where no people appear who write such derogatory comments and insults in the respective threads of a forum.

And by the way: The remark "the AO gang there has turned that sub into a wasteland. Completely useless." is also pretty useless, since there are only 13 out of 53 user threads in the Germany Partytreff Clubs forum that deal with AO and 4 of those are practically dead.

Dreams
06-01-13, 17:14
Deleting the thread will not change reality. If you don't want to fuck BB just don't visit AO clubs and use a condom in the other clubs. Trying to convince BB lovers to use a condom isn't going to work. There's plenty on non BB locations in Germany, just visit these. Keep in mind that BB happens in all the clubs, girls doing it you would never guess they do. If you use a condom you are OK. You might catch a lttle sperm when doing DFK with a girl who did CIM before or if you DATY a girl who had CIP before. Bad luck. Disgusting? Don't do DFK or DATY. Or stay away from P6.

HBThanks, HB. We sometimes need short but clear statement.

Jymondor
06-01-13, 18:01
Or stay away from P6.HBP6 is not common abbreviation. What it stands for? Thanks.

SwingerLover
06-01-13, 18:59
P6 is not common abbreviation. What it stands for? Thanks.I guess that would be PaySex.

Tiradentes
06-02-13, 00:38
Can someone please tell me if non German speaking men are welcome in these establishments?. And if so, will be provided the same services? I am a Caucasian guy and speak zero words of German, I've been to the various Fkk's in Frankfurt with no notable issues.

As these clubs are sort of 'off the grid', I wonder if that was done on purpose to leave guys like me out. I notice that their websites are in German only whereas Frankfurt's FKK's have English translation.

I sure don't want to drive all the way there and get rejected or worse have some German guys staring at me in the clubs.

'Dank' for any useful info.

Dark Vader
06-02-13, 02:50
Can someone please tell me if non German speaking men are welcome in these establishments. And if so, will be provided the same services? I am a Caucasian guy and speak zero words of German, I've been to the various Fkk's in Frankfurt with no notable issues.

As these clubs are sort of 'off the grid', I wonder if that was done on purpose to leave guys like me out. I notice that their websites are in German only whereas Frankfurt's FKK's have English translation.

I sure don't want to drive all the way there and get rejected or worse have some German guys staring at me in the clubs.

'Dank' for any useful info.Relax no entry problems so you'll be just fine but if you're based in Frankfurt why not save yourself some time and visit FKK Dietzenbach instead? It's part of the same group and some girls work at both Villa Venus and Dietzenbach.

Breadman
06-02-13, 04:17
I add some pictures of the general atmosphere in the club.Be careful posting photo's of other hobbiests, your photo's are blurred enough so the guy in your one photo shouldn't be recognized.

Woofiee
06-02-13, 09:03
and by the way: the remark "the ao gang there has turned that sub into a wasteland. completely useless." is also pretty useless, since there are only 13 out of 53 user threads in the germany partytreff clubs forum that deal with ao and 4 of those are practically dead.you've missed the point. what about the other 40 threads? how dead are they now that the ao gang practically rule the partytreff section? i'm only speaking for my own here (and the few other mongers i've met and asked this of) but i feel the community has suffered because of the prevalence of the ao talk. you read this section the threads about unsafe sex. hell, we're not stupid. we'll not bother commenting or even come back. i try to occasionally post into the sections that don't have this conversation but the traffic is useless. it's like the definition of partytreff is now ao.

if i get kicked off, no matter. i want to belong to a community who can help decide the direction the forums take. promoting ao sex is unwise and pollutes the environment we all play in. you say it's personal choice. i say there's no such thing as the "peeing" part of the pool. it all mixes together.

you don't like being challenged. tough. these discussions are valuable to explore what the community thinks and where their real boundaries lie. every community has boundaries. it needs them. it doesn't need to be as extreme as child sex, forced sex or slavery. those are heinous and clear boundaries that the community works together to ferret out; but what about other positions that also endanger the community? this all started about whether someone who passed on a disease should be discussed here, and then it spiraled into what do we as a community owe to each other? information? discussion? if this all about "enterainment" then i don't want to belong to this place. google me; i'm no stranger to adult boards, and i've had years of support on this and other boards in holland, the us and thailand. i go with the flow and enjoy the banter, but when people promote stupid things, behaviours what clearly endanger this game we all play, well sorry. i'm going to fight you for it.

your group killed off the partytreff section. i'd much rather you not do that here.

Dreams
06-02-13, 09:56
you've missed the point. what about the other 40 threads? how dead are they now that the ao gang practically rule the partytreff section? i'm only speaking for my own here (and the few other mongers i've met and asked this of) but i feel the community has suffered because of the prevalence of the ao talk. you read this section the threads about unsafe sex. hell, we're not stupid. we'll not bother commenting or even come back. i try to occasionally post into the sections that don't have this conversation but the traffic is useless. it's like the definition of partytreff is now ao.

if i get kicked off, no matter. i want to belong to a community who can help decide the direction the forums take. promoting ao sex is unwise and pollutes the environment we all play in. you say it's personal choice. i say there's no such thing as the "peeing" part of the pool. it all mixes together.

you don't like being challenged. tough. these discussions are valuable to explore what the community thinks and where their real boundaries lie. every community has boundaries. it needs them. it doesn't need to be as extreme as child sex, forced sex or slavery. those are heinous and clear boundaries that the community works together to ferret out; but what about other positions that also endanger the community? this all started about whether someone who passed on a disease should be discussed here, and then it spiraled into what do we as a community owe to each other? information? discussion? if this all about "enterainment" then i don't want to belong to this place. google me; i'm no stranger to adult boards, and i've had years of support on this and other boards in holland, the us and thailand. i go with the flow and enjoy the banter, but when people promote stupid things, behaviours what clearly endanger this game we all play, well sorry. i'm going to fight you for it.

your group killed off the partytreff section. i'd much rather you not do that here.and these rules are clear: do not argue about sexua lpractices, outside the specific thread.

whatever your specious arguments, if you don't like those rules, just leave this forum. and create yours. we'll se if you get a following there.

bye for now. i think you will be soon ousted anyway.

Myrrh
06-02-13, 11:34
You've missed the point.Well what is the point of starting a debate in a thread about AO clubs about whether the practice of AO is wrong or not? It's a bit like someone starting a debate in a thread about swinger's clubs about swinging being wrong as it may threaten the sanctity of marriage.

So what! Some people like to have bareback sex, others like to swing. They have made their lifestyle choices and that is why specialist threads concerning these activities have been allowed in order to help them with their choices.

Your arguments about AO being unacceptable may well have credence however they are best showcased in a thread specifically devoted to discussions about the merits of the AO practice. It is not fair for any member who is interested in finding about NRW AO clubs to read this thread and have to wade through multiple pages of debate about whether the practice of AO is acceptable or not thereby missing excellent field trip reports or discussion about AO clubs which other members have taken a lot of time, effort and thought to write.

Breadman
06-02-13, 14:55
Woofie I have sent Jackson a pm asking him to remove the Bareback threads from the Partytreff forum, and to move them to our own dedicated Bareback forum called "Germany. Bareback Clubs". I have given Jackson a list of the Bareback Threads for the new forum.

I agree now that its not ideal having the bareback threads in the Partytreff forum, and I hope something will be done about it soon.

Of course a dedicated Bareback Forum will probably draw a few more flames, but since there are so many members here into the bareback scene, we deserve to have our place within ISG to discuss it.

For the record it was I who contacted Jackson a few years ago, to have the partytreff threads moved out of the FKK section and our own Partytreff forum was created, and I believe that was a positive move.

So having a seperate Bareback forum away from both Partytreff and FKK forums is surely the way to go.

BTW I would envisage the new Bareback Forum to be for both flat rate and single service clubs, so for any clubs that are oriented towards bareback sex.This post was posted just over a year ago. The solution seems to be creating a bareback section.

Kommodore
06-02-13, 15:16
Woofie I have sent Jackson a pm asking him to remove the Bareback threads from the Partytreff forum, and to move them to our own dedicated Bareback forum called "Germany. Bareback Clubs". I have given Jackson a list of the Bareback Threads for the new forum.

I agree now that its not ideal having the bareback threads in the Partytreff forum, and I hope something will be done about it soon.

Of course a dedicated Bareback Forum will probably draw a few more flames, but since there are so many members here into the bareback scene, we deserve to have our place within ISG to discuss it.

For the record it was I who contacted Jackson a few years ago, to have the partytreff threads moved out of the FKK section and our own Partytreff forum was created, and I believe that was a positive move.

So having a seperate Bareback forum away from both Partytreff and FKK forums is surely the way to go.

BTW I would envisage the new Bareback Forum to be for both flat rate and single service clubs, so for any clubs that are oriented towards bareback sex.As Breadman suggests, I definitely also think that a re-organisation of both the Germany FKK Sauna Clubs and Germany Partytreff Forums are required. I have nothing against guys that practice AO if they want to but all their A0 talk is most definitely damaging to both of the above forums because it gives the impression (to newer ISG Members and Members not based in Germany / Europe) that this minority practice is a major part of the German Sex Scene. Smaller clubs like FKK Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimburg should definitely not be on the same level of prominence as FKK World, Oase, GoldenTime and Artemis and should be in a sub-forum such as Other FKK Clubs. I really think that we should be writing to "Jackson" (or the forum owners) to try and make this happen. I also think that we should be making more common cause with the Partytreff Guys who would be in agreement with the above mentioned ideas. The Partytreff Forum has gradually died a death because of this over emphasis with regards to AO Clubs and in my oppinion we should endeavour to prevent the same thing from happening in this forum. I would be interested in hearing what regular members of this forum think.

K

Ossian
06-02-13, 18:45
buddy you are so way off the mark it is unbelievable. please try and keep up and stay with the program. i personally don't give a sh1t if these guys want to f#ck upside-down, back-to-front with or without condoms. nor could i give a rats ass let alone be concerned enough to try and convince them to use condoms. i could not care less. and yes i am very well aware that bareback is offered in all clubs. a little more surreptitiously in the bigger and glossier fkk and sauna clubs. what i do think is that the clubs in this particular thread (arabella / venus / grimberg) are third rate clubs, with third rate hookers (who because of age and poor looks offer bareback anal sex because that is the only way they can make a buck). i will leave it for others to decide if the clientele of these clubs are also third rate and cheap. i think to have these pathetic clubs on the same level as fkk palace / oase / world / goldentime / villa veretigo / artemis / paradise / colosseum is an absolute joke and very misleading for any new members who are thinking of visiting and experiencing fkk in germany. i definitely do think that this thread should be deleted or at the very least moved to the pathetic partytreff section. i wish that these guys would stay in their own pen and stay out of this fkk section. maybe if they scrape enough cash together to pay the entrance to a descent club they will realise what they are missing.harsh. but perhaps not completely unfair and hard to completely disagree with all of the expressed sentiments.

SwingerLover
06-02-13, 19:28
it's like the definition of partytreff is now ao.

if i get kicked off, no matter. i want to belong to a community who can help decide the direction the forums take. promoting ao sex is unwise and pollutes the environment we all play in. you say it's personal choice. i say there's no such thing as the "peeing" part of the pool. it all mixes together.

you don't like being challenged.

your group killed off the partytreff section. i'd much rather you not do that here.first: if the definition of partytreff would now be ao, then i would be extremely happy because i wouldn't have to drive over an hour and a half for ao parties.

second: i didn't suggest that you should get kicked off! that was aimed at the regular member who spread spite and venom only here in two of his only 16 overall posts.

third: if you want to help decide which direction the forum takes, then do so within the boundaries of the posting guidelines.

fourth: promoting ao sex is not unwise, it's the natural way to have sex and doesn't pollute anything. as for the "peeing part of the pool": i wish you would go after the cigarette smokers in most places with the same zeal.

fifth: it's not about being challenged. it's about being attaced frequently every few months for no longer obeying the stupid condom propaganda. man, you must really think this whole country is diseased.

sixth: it's not "my group". there were ao-threads in the partytreff forum long before i signed up to isg. and if no one writes in the other threads much anymore, maybe that has to do with not many people going there anymore? because i stopped going to partytreffs, as well as swingerclubs because of the lousy quality i got there, bad rubberfucking or even no fucking at all.


i could not care less.then why don't you just shut up!
it's amazing how a regular member with only (by now) 18 posts tries to command all others what to do and not to do. if you don't like the forum as it is, then leave. i sincerely hope jackson follows my advice and kicks you out!
in the meantime i demand that you abide by the forum's rules and posting guidelines!

ao clubs and in my oppinion we should endeavour to prevent the same thing from happening in this forum. i would be interested in hearing what regular members of this forum think. i would welcome a seperate bareback-only thread, i already suggested it to jackson too. applause to breadman here for digging up wanking's post about the request of a bareback forum; that is the post that i have been referring to as well. (now i know how to find it again, thanks.)

and i don't think you don't have to worry about ao ruining this forum. i think ao happens more at flatrate venues or apartments and private places than in fkks and compared to the partytreff forum and the regular germany forum, this fkk forum here is huge. so i don't think 3 threads (dvr, dietzenbach and this one here; where's the fkk alina thread?) will kill this forum.

Kommodore
06-02-13, 21:12
There is now a definite need to reorganise the Germany FKK Section and Partytreff Section. A0 Style Bareback clubs should be allowed their own section. Until this happens, for information purposes, I think that from time to time different Senior Members of this forum should post the following message (please see below) or a similar message in this section (i.e. FKK Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg Section). This way the clientele of these clubs can post away all they desire but new visitors to this section will soon realise that these clubs are not the norm and do not represent a true FKK experience. Please let me know if you think this message can be improved upon. Please pm me if you wish. Please also copy the message below and post said message again in this forum from time to time. Again I wish to reiterate that I do not have anything against those who wish to practice bareback sex, nor have I any intention of being offensive but I do think that it is important that new members are not confused about the club choices which are on offer in this forum.

A message from some Germany FKK Senior Members to all who are new to the Germany – FKK Clubs Section of the International Sex Guide.

WARNING: Please note that the clubs discussed in this section (i.e. FKK Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg) are very small shabby clubs with poor facilities which cater for a particular group of primarily German mongers who wish to practice bareback (A0) sex. The women working in these clubs are primarily of Romanian / Bulgarian origin with poor English language skills and are very often older and much less attractive than would be the norm in the larger FKK establishments. If A0 style sex is what you are after; well then you are definitely in the right place but if you are looking for a more up-market FKK experience with model type women, please refer to the following club list:

Palace, Oase, Mainhatten, Sharks, World, Artemis, GoldenTime, Living Room, Acapulco, Samya, Parksauna Rezidenz, Magnum, Paradise, Colosseum, Villa Vertigo, Atmos and Bernds.

SwingerLover
06-02-13, 21:26
Sorry, but you can't do that. I don't know the women at either of those clubs, nor do I know how they look, nor do I know about the quality of the places.

But if you badmouth them like that on an open forum and ask to frequently repeat that by posting it over and over again with no comments on anything that you have recently experienced yourself, then that's slander! So they might get the police involved if you start a campaign like that!

May I remind everyone that they run a legitimate and licenced business?

If anyone dares to copy this remark I will call all three clubs myself and point them towards what is said about them in this thread! Then you can explain to the states attorney how you justify your slander in the name of rubber-fucking!

Kommodore
06-02-13, 21:34
Sorry, but you can't do that.I just did.


If anyone dares to copy this remark I will call all three clubs myself and point them towards what is said about them in this thread! Then you can explain to the states attorney how you justify your slander in the name of rubber-fucking!Sounds to me that you are a bit of a trouble maker Mr. SwingerLover. This has nothing to do with bareback sex but rather on the poor standard of these clubs and is posted for infromation purposes for any new member. You will find that the information posted is indeed very accurate.

Most of the guys on this forum are based abroad (UK, USA & Canada) I don't think that the States Attorney is going to fly across the seas over such a trivial issue. As for me you can send him my telephone number.

SwingerLover
06-02-13, 21:36
Sounds to me that you are a bit of a trouble maker Mr. SwingerLover.

Most of the guys on this forum are based abroad (UK, USA & Canada) I don't think that the States Attorney is going to fly across the seas over such a trivial issue. As for me you can send him my telephone number.It is YOU who is the troublemaker; making trouble for those clubs with no foundation whatsoever.

As for the States attorney: Well if you're out of his reach, then he will propably go after the forum. Which has it's server in Germany. So I guess it's about time that Jackson shuts you guys up for good!

Kommodore
06-02-13, 21:41
It is YOU who is the troublemaker; making trouble for those clubs with no foundation whatsoever.

As for the States attorney: Well if you're out of his reach, then he will propably go after the forum. Which has it's server in Germany. So I guess it's about time that Jackson shuts you guys up for good!I am not making trouble for these clubs. I am just stating facts. The only reason you would go to these clubs is for bareback sex. The facilities are poor and the hookers are of a poor class indeed. At the very least not at the same level as the standard FKK girl. I am just trying to help new members understand that there is a major difference between these clubs and the Big Clubs in Hessen, NRW, Bavaria, Berlin (also Switzerland and Austria).

Ossian
06-02-13, 22:31
There is now a definite need to reorganise the Germany FKK Section and Partytreff Section. A0 Style Bareback clubs should be allowed their own section. Until this happens, for information purposes, I think that from time to time different Senior Members of this forum should post the following message (please see below) or a similar message in this section (I. E. FKK Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg Section). This way the clientele of these clubs can post away all they desire but new visitors to this section will soon realise that these clubs are not the norm and do not represent a true FKK experience. Please let me know if you think this message can be improved upon. Please pm me if you wish. Please also copy the message below and post said message again in this forum from time to time. Again I wish to reiterate that I do not have anything against those who wish to practice bareback sex, nor have I any intention of being offensive but I do think that it is important that new members are not confused about the club choices which are on offer in this forum.

A message from some Germany FKK Senior Members to all who are new to the Germany – FKK Clubs Section of the International Sex Guide.

WARNING: Please note that the clubs discussed in this section (I. E. FKK Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg) are very small shabby clubs with poor facilities which cater for a particular group of primarily German mongers who wish to practice bareback (A0) sex. The women working in these clubs are primarily of Romanian / Bulgarian origin with poor English language skills and are very often older and much less attractive than would be the norm in the larger FKK establishments. If A0 style sex is what you are after; well then you are definitely in the right place but if you are looking for a more up-market FKK experience with model type women, please refer to the following club list:

Palace, Oase, Mainhatten, Sharks, World, Artemis, GoldenTime, Living Room, Acapulco, Samya, Parksauna Rezidenz, Magnum, Paradise, Colosseum, Villa Vertigo, Atmos and Bernds. Agree with this 100%. I do not have anything against guys who want to visit bareback clubs and I do not think that this message is in any way offensive to them. You might consider taking out the word "shabby" as it is a little bit over the top although in fairness not all that far from the mark. Happy to post this message from time to time. New or visiting members need to be directed to the bigger FKK and Sauna Clubs. This message does not hinder anyone from posting reports/information in this particular section but does direct new or visiting members to the bigger establishments if they are not looking for bareback sex.

Captain Dan's Alises
06-02-13, 22:51
Also happy to post this message from time to time. Agree that the word "shabby" should be removed.

CD

Jymondor
06-02-13, 22:57
but if you are looking for a more up-market FKK experience with model type women, please refer to the following club list:

Palace, Oase, Mainhatten, Sharks, World, Artemis, GoldenTime, Living Room, Acapulco, Samya, Parksauna Rezidenz, Magnum, Paradise, Colosseum, Villa Vertigo, Atmos and Bernds. Parksauna Rezidenz? When have you been there last time? Is anything improved there? The worst line-up I ever seen in my FKK practice was in PSR.

Kommodore
06-03-13, 00:04
You might consider taking out the word "shabby" as it is a little bit over the top although in fairness not all that far from the mark.I am happy and content to remove the word "shabby".


Parksauna Rezidenz? When have you been there last time? Is anything improved there? The worst line-up I ever seen in my FKK practice was in PSR.If you disagree that Parksauna Residenz should be part of this list please feel free to remove if you are posting this message. Personally I think it should be included.

Jymondor
06-03-13, 01:11
If you disagree that Parksauna Residenz should be part of this list please feel free to remove if you are posting this message. Personally I think it should be included.No, I just wondering if any improvement there. Such a great facility and so depressive lineup.

Woofiee
06-03-13, 07:18
This post was posted just over a year ago. The solution seems to be creating a bareback section.This would be a good solution.

Dreams
06-03-13, 10:19
buddy you are so way off the mark it is unbelievable. please try and keep up and stay with the program. i personally don't give a sh1t if these guys want to f#ck upside-down, back-to-front with or without condoms. nor could i give a rats ass let alone be concerned enough to try and convince them to use condoms. i could not care less. and yes i am very well aware that bareback is offered in all clubs. a little more surreptitiously in the bigger and glossier fkk and sauna clubs. what i do think is that the clubs in this particular thread (arabella / venus / grimberg) are third rate clubs, with third rate hookers (who because of age and poor looks offer bareback anal sex because that is the only way they can make a buck). i will leave it for others to decide if the clientele of these clubs are also third rate and cheap. i think to have these pathetic clubs on the same level as fkk palace / oase / world / goldentime / villa veretigo / artemis / paradise / colosseum is an absolute joke and very misleading for any new members who are thinking of visiting and experiencing fkk in germany. i definitely do think that this thread should be deleted or at the very least moved to the pathetic partytreff section. i wish that these guys would stay in their own pen and stay out of this fkk section. maybe if they scrape enough cash together to pay the entrance to a descent club they will realise what they are missing.i have ben to so called "high class" clubs for many years, and enjoyed them.

but now, i prefer those less pretentious clubs that you call "third rate".

if you had been there yourself, you would have seen lots of very friendly and pretty girls. indeed, there are fewer ee optifuck girls, but also far less, if any,"divas" like you find in those big clubs. and no upsell in the room etc.

i fully understand those who prefer the big clubs, because of the installations, food and bigger number of girls. the fact that i don't rate them as my first preference does not mean i have to go on their thread to rubbish them.

but why you can't understand other's preference for smaller clubs, and feel the need to insult us all, mongers, clubs, girls who like them, i don't get.

this intolerance is a sad reflexion of the person you are.

Optimist
06-03-13, 14:33
If you had been there yourself, you would have seen lots of very friendly and pretty girls. Indeed, there are fewer EE optifuck girls, but also far less, if any,"divas" like you find in those big clubs.

But why you can't understand other's preference for smaller clubs, and feel the need to insult us all, mongers, clubs, girls who like them, I don't get.

This intolerance is a sad reflexion of the person you are.Dreams. Just to echo your comments. The service in these clubs (where you can use or not use a condom according to your choice), can be as good, and better, as in any of the so-called "high class" clubs, and if anything, the girls are more open and natural than in the "high class" clubs.

Methuzela just clutters the threads with intolerance and arrogance

Kommodore's assessment of these clubs does not seem to be based on any reality I've come across. Ok the facilities are limited and the food almost non-existent, but the service offered by the girls is often extremely good. The reason why someone would visit these clubs and do rubber sex is because the price is cheaper (three sessions say 120euro compared to 210 euro in a "high class" club. So if you don't need food or swimming pool these clubs offer a good deal for the local clientele

SwingerLover
06-03-13, 14:34
New or visiting members need to be directed to the bigger FKK and Sauna Clubs.Why? Don't you think they can make up their own minds?


Also happy to post this message from time to time. Agree that the word "shabby" should be removed.So this was your first post ever on ISG. Remarkable. Agreeing to post a business-damaging message from time to time as a first post.

How about we implement this strategy on all the clubs? I've been told lately that at some of those oh so "high class" FKKs half hours have been cut down to 25 minutes by the women, so they could charge for an additional half hour. And this was not just one single incident. The guys who told me this now rather go to DVR, where the girls don't seem to even know what a clock is when they are with a guy, or go to AO flatrate parties, where I have met them and got this information.

So how about putting up a little text similar to Kommodore's below and frequently post that in every thread about the respective clubs? Wouldn't that be something "new or visiting members need to be directed to"?

Anyhow, the attitudes and remarks of the people writing in this FKK-forum have definitely killed any last curiosity I might still have had about giving an FKK a try. Not with such customers being around. I'd rather go to AO-parties, where everybody is nice any friendly and treats everybod decently. And the guys I met who ran screaming from the so-called "high class" FKKs see it exactly my way.

And by the way: You might have noticed that I did NOT name any of those clubs I had been told about. Since I haven't been there myself, it's not my place to single them out here and badmouth them in front of everybody.


But why you can't understand other's preference for smaller clubs, and feel the need to insult us all, mongers, clubs, girls who like them, I don't get.

This intolerance is a sad reflexion of the person you are.Yes I don't understand it either. Since no such people appear at the AO parties, I'm pretty sure I'm going to exactly the right places. FKK-clubs however will be off my radar for good now.

Optimist
06-03-13, 14:46
Presumably Captain Dan is a resurrection of Capt Dan (who is the only member I ever put on my ignore list).

Optimist
06-03-13, 14:55
Maybe a real report would be in order?

I went on the all-inclusive day, turning up at opening time. There is a comfortable main room, a friendly bar woman, and limited other facilities (sauna I think). Food was delivered at 13. 00 (lasagne and another dish). Free soft and hot drinks were available. There were four women there. One was good looking slim, one medium build, one tending to large, and one built like an overflowing jelly (sorry but I am just trying to make a description).

You can do six sessions for the price. I did four, including two girls at once, and was very happy with the service. I didn't go with the very large woman. I am 90% sure one of the girls came (just trying to indicate the level of service) , the other two were friendly and made a real effort.

So I got four sessions for 129 euro (if I remember right) , compared to 260 euro at a "high class" FKK. I left soon after 13. 00, although I understand that other girls turn up later.

When you choose a girl she will assume you want to use a condom. Whether you do or not is up to you

Free Dude
06-03-13, 15:14
Just to echo Dreams and Optimist (and I really don't agree with Dreams on what stuff should and shouldn't be mentioned on this board) , the service, attitude and fun in these clubs can take the pepsi test with any of the 'bigger' clubs. Far less divas, girls joking around and having fun with each other and regulars (or anyone who seems to respond). A couple of these clubs really screwed up my price-quality preconceptions.

You will probably find more 'models' in GT, Oase, World; but there are plenty young (teens and early twenties) and nice looking EE girls as well. In any case, far better looking than what I've encountered in Bernds (fi).

Not just the AO clubs, but many smaller family like clubs in the Pott like Neby and Luderlounge have a similar dynamic.

Kommodore
06-03-13, 15:57
So how about putting up a little text similar to Kommodore's below and frequently post that in every thread about the respective clubs? Wouldn't that be something "new or visiting members need to be directed to"?Once you obey the rules of this forum you are entitled to post what you like where you like, as am I or anyone else. Anyone is entitled to post in the Germany FKK Clubs Section of this forum as indeed they are entitled to post over in the Partytreff Section. Post what you want where you want. It is of no concern to me.

ButtLover
06-03-13, 16:54
[QUOTE=Free Dude; 1429821]Far less divas, girls joking around and having fun with each other and regulars (or anyone who seems to respond). A couple of these clubs really screwed up my price-quality preconceptions.

Hi,

I certainly agree to this.

I shall visit Arabella to the weekend, all sex will be AM ("alles mit")

Regards.

BL

Captain Dan's Alises
06-03-13, 16:55
Presumably Captain Dan is a resurrection of Capt Dan (who is the only member I ever put on my ignore list).Sorry to hear that you are still bearing miffed about something said (written) a long time ago. I met your partner Cordelia in FKK World many moons ago and she did seem like a nice lady (perhaps a bit unconventional but nevertheless a nice lady). Anyway we may not agree on some issues but I applaud your contributions to this forum and wish you well.

CD

Maxime
06-03-13, 19:42
Strange discussion. I happen to like snd visit most of the large FKK and saunaclubs, in NRW and Hessen, already for more than 8 years, but I also like the smaller, more intimate places. And also I visited many ero parties (NOT Partytreffs, for me most of them lack atmospehere). This is totally NOT related to the fact if a club or partry (treff) , or (some) girls there, offer AO or not. There are pure AO clubs / party (treffs) but also the ones that claim to be NO-AO, have girls that offer AO, yes, also in the large clean, and high-class clubs.

Especially this forum is mend to give and find information about a club / party (treff) and the girls working there. And every one can do with this information what he (or she?) wants:

- If you read a club is pure AO, and you want it, you can go, if you don't want it, avoid.

- If you read about smaller clubs that offer intimate and natural setting, with high-service girls, and no " high class sharks", and you want it, you can go, if you like high-class sharks, you avoid these clubs.

- If you read about larger upscale clubs, that offer many low service girls, but have great food and swimming pool, and you want it, you can go, if you like high service of the girls, you avoid.

- etc etc.

If it is clear in what category a club / party (treff) but also a specific girl fits, that is interesting information. To write in every post "Danger, watch out for all the AO girls in Villa Venus" is as useless as to write "Danger, watch out for all the sharks in Golden Time with low-service".)

Please respect each others choice and taste, and newbees are not naief: they read several messages about a club, and will get the picture. If they visit the club, theu see the picture in real life.

Myrrh
06-03-13, 20:13
A message from some Germany FKK Senior Members to all who are new to the Germany – FKK Clubs Section of the International Sex Guide.

WARNING: The women working in these clubs are very often older and much less attractive than would be the norm in the larger FKK establishments. If A0 style sex is what you are after; well then you are definitely in the right place but if you are looking for a more up-market FKK experience with model type women, please refer to the following club list:

Palace, Oase, Mainhatten, Sharks, World, Artemis, GoldenTime, Living Room, Acapulco, Samya, Parksauna Rezidenz, Magnum, Paradise, Colosseum, Villa Vertigo, Atmos and Bernds.


I am not making trouble for these clubs. I am just stating facts. The facilities are poor and the hookers are of a poor class indeed. At the very least not at the same level as the standard FKK girl

I infer from what you say then that attractive, model type girls can only really be found in non AO FKK type clubs. Well Club Angelique is an AO FKK club with similar business model as Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg and by following your command er, sorry I meant advice, the readers on here who want attractive women (AO or non AO) would end up never go there. Because according to you and your cohorts you can have attractive women or AO but not both.

http://www.joyclub.de/my/fotoalbum/1994883.club_angelique.html

Hmmn, the women here don't look too shabby to me though.

Dreams
06-03-13, 20:24
Hmmn, the women here don't look too shabby to me though.[/QUOTE]Well, Thanks to kommodore and his absurd comments about the fat, old and ugly girls that are supposed to clog our favouite clubs, (how does he know, he has never been there?) , many more mongers will now know that those clubs are definitively a very nice, cheaper option that some of the big FKKs. Without him, surely far less guys would have posted their positive experiences!

From all the girls in those clubs, a very big thank you to you, Kommodore!

Kommodore
06-03-13, 20:39
Club Angelique is an AO FKK club with similar business model as Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna GrimbergThe warning message clearly refers only to Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna Grimberg (as this is the thread which it will be posted in) and the standard of hardware and software in these clubs. Club Angelique is not part of this thread. Besides as stated previously I am not against AO clubs and the practice of AO sex. I just don't like tacky clubs whether they are A0 or not.

K

Kommodore
06-03-13, 20:41
Maybes we should post similar type messages over in the German Partytreff Forum warning about the standard of the clubs and the quality of the hookers?

Just a thought which may very well soon become reality.Interesting idea but perhaps a little too provocative. I prefer (for the moment) to limit myself to the FKK Clubs Section (as this is my interest). Still a very interesting notion :)

K

Hessen Bub
06-03-13, 20:42
Club Angelique does charge 50€ for 30min non BB sex, right?

HB

Jymondor
06-03-13, 20:44
Club Angelique is an AO FKK club with similar business model as Arabella, Villa Venus and Sauna GrimbergDisagree. Angelique is quite different. I heard that Angelique is owned (or at least managed) by the girls. I guess Alisa and Alina. Totally different ambiance. Better service, better girls and significantly higher price. V-Venus and Arabella can be called FKK. Angelique is more like a private club or brothel.

Jymondor
06-03-13, 20:47
Club Angelique does charge 50€ for 30min non BB sex, right?

HBNo. 50€ is for 30 min covered. AO is 30€ extra. 1/2 hour AO = 80€. 1 hour AO = 110€. However some days they have discounts. There are also flatrate parties on case to case base.

Hessen Bub
06-03-13, 21:15
No. 50€ is for 30 min covered. AO is 30€ extra. 1/2 hour AO = 80€. 1 hour AO = 110€. However some days they have discounts. There are also flatrate parties on case to case base.That's what I said. It's 50€/30min non BB Sex. So that's the normal tariff like in a "decent" FKK club. Just my 0, 02€.

HB

Jymondor
06-03-13, 21:42
That's what I said. It's 50€/30min non BB Sex. So that's the normal tariff like in a "decent" FKK club. Just my 0, 02€.

HBThat's correct. And some girls quality and service level is as in a 'decent' FKK as well. But ambiance is not even close.

Kommodore
06-03-13, 21:53
Sounds to me that Angelique is a much more sensible club to have it's own thread as opposed to the tacky threesome that is Arabella, Venus and Grimberg!

At least the hookers look presentable!

K

Jymondor
06-03-13, 22:38
Sounds to me that Angelique is a much more sensible club to have it's own thread as opposed to the tacky threesome that is Arabella, Venus and Grimberg!

At least the hookers look presentable!

KI am not sure in which forum should be this thread. This is neither FKK nor Partytreff. They call themselves "Club Angelique". Freirercafe treats them as FKK, but I would say that this club is unique.

Only 7 girls work there. Is that enough for the thread?

PacificRim
06-04-13, 01:32
Strange discussion. I happen to like snd visit most of the large FKK and saunaclubs, in NRW and Hessen, already for more than 8 years, but I also like the smaller, more intimate places. And also I visited many ero parties (NOT Partytreffs, for me most of them lack atmospehere). This is totally NOT related to the fact if a club or partry (treff) , or (some) girls there, offer AO or not. There are pure AO clubs / party (treffs) but also the ones that claim to be NO-AO, have girls that offer AO, yes, also in the large clean, and high-class clubs.

Especially this forum is mend to give and find information about a club / party (treff) and the girls working there. And every one can do with this information what he (or she?) wants:

- If you read a club is pure AO, and you want it, you can go, if you don't want it, avoid.

- If you read about smaller clubs that offer intimate and natural setting, with high-service girls, and no " high class sharks", and you want it, you can go, if you like high-class sharks, you avoid these clubs.

- If you read about larger upscale clubs, that offer many low service girls, but have great food and swimming pool, and you want it, you can go, if you like high service of the girls, you avoid.

- etc etc.

If it is clear in what category a club / party (treff) but also a specific girl fits, that is interesting information. To write in every post "Danger, watch out for all the AO girls in Villa Venus" is as useless as to write "Danger, watch out for all the sharks in Golden Time with low-service".)

Please respect each others choice and taste, and newbees are not naief: they read several messages about a club, and will get the picture. If they visit the club, theu see the picture in real life.Thanks for quite a sensible response. I'm not sure why certain members have taken such a harsh position, but their descriptions of the clubs and the girls do not match my experience. I have visited both Villa Venus and FKK Dietzenbach in addition to several of the large clubs like Oase and Colosseum. I enjoy both the large and small clubs.

1. When I visited Dietzenbach there were several girls who only provide with condoms and those who offer AO likewise offered condoms. Moreover, I found the girls to be quite attractive and I enjoyed the small, intimate atmosphere as a contrast to the large, busy atmosphere of Oase. Perhaps not for a long period, but for a short visit I found it to be very pleasant.

2. Villa Venus was likewise a pleasant club. In contrast to several of the descriptions below, I found that many of the girls were young, attractive and fun. They all offered condoms, though not all required their use.

I'm at a loss to figure out who Kommodore and others are trying to protect with their warning. But I would hope it wouldn't be people like me. I'm quite capable of making my own decisions based on the reviews I read by people who have actually visited the clubs. From Kommodore's description I can only conclude he has not visited the clubs.

Dreams
06-04-13, 09:31
I'm at a loss to figure out who Kommodore and others are trying to protect with their warning. But I would hope it wouldn't be people like me. I'm quite capable of making my own decisions based on the reviews I read by people who have actually visited the clubs. From Kommodore's description I can only conclude he has not visited the clubs.You said it all.

Kommodore has not yet stated whether he actually ever visited any of the clubs he vilifies.

But the only result is to bring in every day more positive comments form people like you, who may not have posted them if he had not interfered.

I am quite sure that, instead of "protecting" people, (how arrogant and paternalistic can you be!) that is, in his views, preventing them to visit those clubs, this discussion actually incites more guys to visit! So let him be thanked for that!

Optimist
06-04-13, 16:13
Sorry to hear that you are still bearing miffed about something said (written) a long time ago. I met your partner Cordelia in FKK World many moons ago and she did seem like a nice lady (perhaps a bit unconventional but nevertheless a nice lady). Anyway we may not agree on some issues but I applaud your contributions to this forum and wish you well.

CDHi. I guess a public apology from me is in order. Thanks for your best wishes and teaching me a lesson:)

Kommodore
06-04-13, 19:25
So let him be thanked for that!You are most welcome :)

K

Kommodore
06-04-13, 19:32
I am not sure in which forum should be this thread. This is neither FKK nor Partytreff. They call themselves "Club Angelique". Freirercafe treats them as FKK, but I would say that this club is unique.

Only 7 girls work there. Is that enough for the thread?I don't dispute that it is possible to have a good time in these clubs particularly if your preference is for bareback sex. However none of these small specialist clubs with few girls (and in some cases girls of questionable quality) and poor facilities should be on the same level as the BIG clubs in Frankfurt, Berlin, Stuttgart etc etc. The board needs to be reorganised and these smaller specialist clubs should either get their own seperate forum or be pushed into a sub-directory off the Other FKK Clubs thread. Until then warning messages should definitely be posted.

K

Myrrh
06-04-13, 19:43
Disagree. Angelique is quite different. I heard that Angelique is owned (or at least managed) by the girls. I guess Alisa and Alina. Totally different ambiance. Better service, better girls and significantly higher price. V-Venus and Arabella can be called FKK. Angelique is more like a private club or brothel.A private club is one where membership is required for entry. ALL of the places mentioned in this forum are brothels.

It should be borne in mind that some of the girls at Angelique (including Deea and Arianna) moved there from Club la Luna, the club famous for it's 'any guy can just simply walk in off the street and participate in a 4-girl bareback sperm donor gangbang session'. So hardly classy.

I think it is helpful to just have two classification of these pay-for-play clubs. Partytreff which is flat rate and FKK where you pay per session. For FKK strictly speaking I believe the girls need to walk around naked and there needs to be sauna facilities, a wet area and so forth. However what is most important is whether you pay a flat rate or per session, everything else is just incidental.

Jymondor
06-04-13, 20:07
A private club is one where membership is required for entry. ALL of the places mentioned in this forum are brothels.Agree. Brothel would be a proper definition.


It should be borne in mind that some of the girls at Angelique (including Deea and Arianna) moved there from Club la Luna, the club famous for it's 'any guy can just simply walk in off the street and participate in a 4-girl bareback sperm donor gangbang session'. So hardly classy.I did not sessioned neither with Deea nor with Arianna, so I cannot judge. I know that Deea has mixed reports on Freircafe thread. At the time I visited Viersen she worked in Dusiburg location. At my experience service level at Angelique level better than in La Luna. I believe that same girl can perform differently in different clubs depending on management and atmosphere.

Jymondor
06-04-13, 20:17
The board needs to be reorganised and these smaller specialist clubs should either get their own seperate forum or be pushed into a sub-directory off the Other FKK Clubs thread. Until then warning messages should definitely be posted.

KThis thread is more active than many many threads dedicated to some 'classy' clubs. So why it has to pushed somewhere? And what warning message should be posted? There is a warning message on the front page. It is very clear:


Warning: These pages contain sexual content that may be offensive to some readers. This content is intended to be viewed by those over 18 (or 21 in some countries). To protect our users from viewing adult-oriented material without their consent, you are required to read the following statements before continuing. By entering this site, you certify that you are of legal age, and that you consent to viewing adult-oriented material. If you do not wish to view such material please leave now.

Banana Boi
06-04-13, 21:52
Thanks Optimist for an actual review which is already buried.


Maybe a real report would be in order?

I went on the all-inclusive day, turning up at opening time. There is a comfortable main room, a friendly bar woman, and limited other facilities (sauna I think). Food was delivered at 13. 00 (lasagne and another dish). Free soft and hot drinks were available. There were four women there. One was good looking slim, one medium build, one tending to large, and one built like an overflowing jelly (sorry but I am just trying to make a description).

You can do six sessions for the price. I did four, including two girls at once, and was very happy with the service. I didn't go with the very large woman. I am 90% sure one of the girls came (just trying to indicate the level of service) , the other two were friendly and made a real effort.

So I got four sessions for 129 euro (if I remember right) , compared to 260 euro at a "high class" FKK. I left soon after 13. 00, although I understand that other girls turn up later.

When you choose a girl she will assume you want to use a condom. Whether you do or not is up to you

Woodypussy1967
06-05-13, 08:44
The girls of these clubs are very good. Maybe they are not model like but the level of service they offer is great. Most of them are always polite and follow the instructions of the client. I will visit this club again. Can anybody suggest any specific madams in these clubs that are offering bareback anal? I remember some girls in these clubs that they were offering anal sex and anal creampie without condom but I do not remember their names. I had a great time with them! I assume that there will still be such bareaback anal girls. I remember a blonde Romanian girl who told me that she does not like condoms in anal sex because men can cum easier and more quickly when they fuck her ass bareback. Most girls in these clubs are coming from Bulgaria and Romania. But I would also like to see some black, asian and arabic women. I hope that the girls of thiese clubs will continue to offer such a high level of service.

Dreams
06-05-13, 09:54
You are most welcome.

KIt would be nice if you could say clearly whether your opinions on those clubs is based on second hand info, or whetehr you actually went there, even once, yourself. A bit of honesty would not harm, would'nt it?

Pl continue though to brag about this, this thread is now one of the most active FKK thread, and everyday brings in more guys reporting their positive experience there.

My fear is that those clubs wil now be too crowded soon.

EastGoing
06-05-13, 15:19
http://www.joyclub.de/my/fotoalbum/1994883.club_angelique.html

I'm honestly scared but tempted by AO, but if it has to happen let it be there, at least the first time (if ever). Next month I'll be around, I think I'll go there for sure, and then I'll see if adding 30 euros or not.

I'm following this debate that's been going on for a while now, taking this thread among the busiest ones. Since I'm a beginner to german mongering, I give my newbie opinion, which can humbly be taken into account since part of the debate is to warn beginners or "virgins" of Germany about quality, prices, performances, etc.

As Maxime pointed out, everybody can choose and make up their minds by themselves. We're all old enough to be able to make our choices, everybody must be free to choose what they prefer, and take responsibility for that. Personally I'm against AO, but if some girls provide it and some men want it, it's their business, not other people's business. As I said, I'm very tempted, but if I go for it and come out with a problem, I'll have to blame only myself, nobody forced me to do it, it would be stupid to complain over those who do AO and post about, it's true I'd probably never find out about openly advertised AO without reading ISG, but again I chose freely.

On the other hand, it's true that the quality of girls, without mentioning the facilities, in Artemis and of those in Caligula or treff188 can't be compared, not even by minding only their toes, and now I'm talking of places where I have been personally. I've seen the pics of some girls of AO clubs and I admit the evidence, it's true they are not at all the same quality of those of big FKKs, but I find incorrect to say that they are so ugly that only by doing AO they can work, because also in other FKKs you can find low quality girls (I've been in Haus-Panthera) , not only in AO and flatrates clubs.

About classifying threads and clubs, I think that AO should have a whole thread apart, the other one being "normal", non AO, then there could be the various divisions: FKK, brothel, flatrate, etc, so one can choose the main topic catching his interest at once and then go down the various structures of treff, GB, FKK, etc.

Also, even if, again, I agree AO is a dangerous practice and shouldn't be advertised too much (as Dreams said these clubs may get overcrowded, therefore increasing the chances of possible infections) , AO is quite hidden in the forum, an outer reader wouldn't find out without digging german threads, I don't know if it's done intentionally. I'm not good at all at using computer, but I don't even visualize partytreff section, nor by entry main page nor by "forum".

Being a Whormany beginner and a computer illiterate I fully fit the description of the subject and qualify to express my opinions.

Greetings to all debaters

Kommodore
06-06-13, 00:48
It would be nice if you could say clearly whether your opinions on those clubs is based on second hand info, or whetehr you actually went there, even once, yourself. A bit of honesty would not harm, would'nt it?

Pl continue though to brag about this, this thread is now one of the most active FKK thread, and everyday brings in more guys reporting their positive experience there.

My fear is that those clubs wil now be too crowded soon.I have been to many many many many clubs of different types and sizes the length and breath of Deutschland (and beyond) including some of those referred to in this thread. I'm sorry if I cannot share your enthusiasm for these smaller tackier establishments. I could not care less how crowded or not these clubs are as a result of these posts. I am not naive enough to actually consider that these posts make much difference. Good luck to the owners if these clubs happen to be full to the rafters with customers.

Unfortunately you have a tendancy to deride those who debate with you and to ridicule their opinions. Nor will I continue to endlessly debate this topic. There can be no consensus achieved in this manner. I suggest you continue to post what you want in this thread. As will I.

K

Maxime
06-06-13, 21:17
Strange discussion. I happen to like snd visit most of the large FKK and saunaclubs, in NRW and Hessen, already for more than 8 years, but I also like the smaller, more intimate places. And also I visited many ero parties (NOT Partytreffs, for me most of them lack atmospehere). This is totally NOT related to the fact if a club or partry (treff) , or (some) girls there, offer AO or not. There are pure AO clubs / party (treffs) but also the ones that claim to be NO-AO, have girls that offer AO, yes, also in the large clean, and high-class clubs.

Especially this forum is mend to give and find information about a club / party (treff) and the girls working there. And every one can do with this information what he (or she?) wants:

- If you read a club is pure AO, and you want it, you can go, if you don't want it, avoid.

- If you read about smaller clubs that offer intimate and natural setting, with high-service girls, and no " high class sharks", and you want it, you can go, if you like high-class sharks, you avoid these clubs.

- If you read about larger upscale clubs, that offer many low service girls, but have great food and swimming pool, and you want it, you can go, if you like high service of the girls, you avoid.

- etc etc.

If it is clear in what category a club / party (treff) but also a specific girl fits, that is interesting information. To write in every post "Danger, watch out for all the AO girls in Villa Venus" is as useless as to write "Danger, watch out for all the sharks in Golden Time with low-service".)

Please respect each others choice and taste, and newbees are not naief: they read several messages about a club, and will get the picture. If they visit the club, theu see the picture in real life.
Thanks for quite a sensible response. I'm not sure why certain members have taken such a harsh position, but their descriptions of the clubs and the girls do not match my experience. I have visited both Villa Venus and FKK Dietzenbach in addition to several of the large clubs like Oase and Colosseum. I enjoy both the large and small clubs.You're welcome.)

It seems some people can only re-state their opinion, over and over, until other people agree with them. Ignore it, and make up your own opinion, about FKK, about PC, about AO, etc. There can not be too much information on a forum like this. Censoring or biased warnings are very bad for transparancy and make it harder to make a fair opinion for readers.

And now enjoy clubbing and let's hope somebody write about the mentioned clubs again.)

Woofiee
06-07-13, 18:12
It seems some people can only re-state their opinion, over and over, until other people agree with them. Ignore it, and make up your own opinion, about FKK, about PC, about AO, etc. There can not be too much information on a forum like this. Censoring or biased warnings are very bad for transparancy and make it harder to make a fair opinion for readers.You know, the only people here trying to stop anyone from writing this tend to be the AO gang. They've tried to get me banned and my posts removed (and I did get slapped for calling a member here the I-word, because—as you know—it's okay to misrepresent members or threaten them, but you can't call them a name. That's baaaad.)

I never said they shouldn't post. I maintain AO doesn't belong in the FKK thread. I believe they need their own section under Germany.

I also said I disapprove of it, and while I can't tell others to do rubber-up, I think it's dangerous to promote unsafe sex here on ISG.

I maintain that if the talk of AO bleeds into the FKK forums, as it has in the Partytreff subgroup, it will become a problem.

Unfortunately I have to write this in single sentences as my arguments either get mangled or misrepresented. I am not censoring anyone. But certainly others seem quite happy to have Jackson censor me.

(EDIT: the system interprets semi-colons as full stops, so they've been converted to em-dashs.)

Jymondor
06-07-13, 18:23
Guys, if you don't like thee clubs partucularly or AO in general please do not post in this thead. Please remember that we visit this forum to exchange information that will help in mongering experience. Now it is difficult to find useful info in this thread due to useless discussions.

Please ceate a thread "AO pros and cons" and discuss there.

Thank you.

Sorry for poor grammar. I am writting on my tablet sitting on Pantherras upper terrase. BTW lineup looks like disaster.

Captain Dan's Alises
06-07-13, 19:29
[i]Advisory Message from some Germany FKK Senior Members to all who are new to the Germany – FKK Clubs Section of the International Sex Guide:

The women working in these clubs are very often older and less attractive than would be the norm in the larger FKK establishments. The facilities available in these clubs are also somewhat limited.

If A0 style sex (bareback sex) is what you are after; well then you are definitely in the right place but if you are looking for a more up-market FKK experience with model type women, please refer to the following club list:

[font=+1]Palace, Oase, Mainhatten, Sharks, World, Artemis, GoldenTime, Living Room, Acapulco, Samya, Parksauna Rezidenz, Magnum, Paradise, Colosseum, Villa Vertigo, Atmos and Bernds.

====================================================

To Captain Dan and all of your multiple alises,

This is the last time you will post this message.

Thanks,

Jackson

Maxime
06-08-13, 09:23
Sorry for poor grammar. I am writting on my tablet sitting on Pantherras upper terrase. BTW lineup looks like disaster.Poor line up on Friday? There were (more than) 20 girls, with top ones like Diana, Andrea, Jacky, Veronica, Elena, Denisa, Sabrina, etc. Maybe they were downstairs in the "garden" while you were sitting on the terrace?.)

Hope they will make a whirlpool on the roof terrace soon!