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Syzygies
08-23-17, 12:00
Introductory tips for what learning to speak Thai is all about, and how to do it in reasonable time. In future I will provide some useful phrases related to this forum. LOL.

Learn vocab and phrases useful to yourself relevant. What do you need to say at a food stall, shop, to the girl you want to fuck, about the service required in the MP. LOL.

Try to determine which words are extremely rude or foul language, so as not to use them at all, just like you would be wary to call someone a "c*nt" there are plenty of Thai words of varying degrees of crudeness. Better to be overly polite, than turn off the girl with very ugly way of using foul words. To a casual acquaintance, you can't use "hee" for pussy. It's too foul, probably even worse than "C*nt". Bargirls may use crude language but cannot expect to be able to copy their ugly phrases like "Ee dork", "ai sat", "ai Hia", "dtolae", "bpaak maa" etc.

Use it you must use the language you have learned so far, excepting the foul words. Talk to Thais who cannot speak English ideally.

When you understand the message you acquire the language. This is comprehension. You can't use words if the meaning is unknown or too vague to you.

You have to hear the language, not just read it. You have to learn to use muscles in your mouth to make the right new sounds. Language teaching that is too reading and writing oriented is no good. Forget about Thai script in the early stages. That can be learned latter quite easily. You learn to listen and speak first. Use Romanisation to write how words sound, for revision. Listen a lot. I watched Thai Soapies to listen to basic phrases so many times to get used to it at pace (this is for those past the real basics). You have to listen to things where you will understand at least a percentage of what is going on but 50% is good enough.

Have to be relaxed and curious. Don't worry for words not understood. I can also watch TV shows in German, as know the real basic words. Don't understand every word. No problem. Talk Thai to girls in the bar, MP, waitresses, etc. I see plenty of guys doing it, some with pronunciation a bit funny, but no worries.
Practice constructing phrases from words learned. Be happy to make mistakes.

Mostly Thais don't correct us, however be very accepting if your pronunciation is corrected. It is better to learn the right way to say it. Copy the mouth shapes of some Thai person saying the words or a video (or get teacher to demonstrate correct mouth movements).

Find a stickler to correct your mistakes but to allow you to make the mistakes. This is the official teacher.
Some teachers are very accepting of students making poor pronunciation, so that students enjoy the class more and feel they are achieving, however I am not really in favour of bad pronunciation being accepted too much. Pronunciation is your absolute keystone to the language and needs to be close to right at some point in the process. So don't delay to get your pronunciation corrected for too long. I hear of fancy people who learned several languages in just a few years, yet I can detect that their pronunciation is a bit off, for the languages I know something about. Maybe no one was correcting them sufficiently. No big deal. They can still be understood. Thais accept westernised pronunciation quite readily, but do strive to make your pronunciation as good as possible.

1000 words covers 85% of your Thai communication. 3000 words covers 98%.
If someone learned 10 new words per day (and revised 50 previously learned words or phrases; since a lot of repetition is required) it would be possible to acquire an 1800 word vocab in 6 months. That requires diligence and persistence. Normal persons will achieve much slower than that. Maybe took me 3 years to get to that. Learn simple basic words first, that are used so frequently. Make images in your mind for words.

Practice conversations in the shower, or when walking down the street talk to yourself (aloud), or with a teacher. You need drills to practise combining words into phrases. You won't know how the word sounds if don't actually say it out loud. Others will think you are mad. No problem. I used to practice while walking 2 km. To work. Ideally you need to practice and revise daily or as close to daily as possible.

Find a conversation buddy who cannot speak English at all well. This is a person who will have patience to try hard to understand, feedback how they understand what you said with correct Thai, will try to use basic easy words. This person takes the place of a parent teaching the child. LOL.
I spent many days early on, with a girl who could not speak English but was willing to speak Thai to me slowly and clearly. My Thai was forced to improve fast.

The "immersion" method does not really work. Some guys have lived in Thailand many years but still have not acquired much Thai because they are not being forced to communicate in Thai. You need to be conversing with Thais that cannot or will not use English. My GF cannot speak English to any great extent. So I am forced to use Thai regularly.

When making notes about Thai words or phrases, explain the meaning, a single English word is generally not enough to make the meaning absolutely clear.

There is a method of teaching Thai, called the natural method, where the teacher acts as a parent teaching a child, but speaks only Thai. I advise against this method. It takes too long to make any progress.

Syzygies
11-13-17, 09:40
There are five tones to learn in Thai:

Mid tone (slightly higher than normal for Farangs. Indians will have no trouble LOL). A difficult tone believe it or not.

Low tone (this comes very naturally for Farangs).

Falling tone. This is like putting a significant emphasis on a word (try banging your fist on the table while saying falling tone to make sure you stress it.).

High tone. Sounds start high and rises even further. This sounds like a querying tone at end of an English question sentence, but does not indicate a question at all.

Rising tone. The weird tone. Starts low then at the end of the syllable, the pitch rises sharply.

Say a Thai word with the wrong tone, and the meaning changes completely. Wrong vowel sound also changes the meaning.

Thai vowels are quite different to English and there are many vowel sounds. Vowels can be both long and short for most vowels. Difficult to master.
Vowel sound is everything in Thai words. Get the vowel sound wrong and you won't be understood that well at all, unless listener is very smart and used to farangs, or can guess by context. This is hard to get used to, since vowel sounds in English can vary by region of origin and it just does not matter.
There are not more than one way to pronounce Thai vowels correctly. Important to learn the vowels accurately. More important even than getting the tones right.

When Thais throw in English words into a sentence e. G. "File" (sounds like "fy") or "space" (sounded like "sa-bate"). I just don't understand them because the pronunciation is weird. It works the same in reverse. When we speak Thai with a weird pronunciation, it may not be understood.

Thai consonants are mostly similar to English with a few exceptions:
"ng" sound can appear on the front of a word.
"dt" is an unaspirated "t" sound with no puff of air. Similar to letter t on the end of the word "Start".
"bp" is an unasoirated "p" sound with no puff of air. Sounds like the "p" in word "stop".
"k" or "g" is an unaspirated "k" sound like at the end of the word "book". Also similar to a "g" but with less vibration.
"ph" is aspirated "p" same as normal English "p". Never an "f" e. G. Phuket is pronounced "Poo-get" (hard to get used to).
Pattaya is pronounced "Putt-ta-yar", Putt rhymes with Butt, never rhymes with Mat, and there is also never a sound like "Thai" in the middle.
I hate to hear stuff like "Patty-er" or Pa-Thai-ya". Even "Patts" grates, since has wrong vowel sound.
Thai "r" is a wide mouthed "r" not a narrow rounded mouth.
Thai "L" has no tongue flick on top teeth like in English.
These last two points can lead to us miss- hearing Thais.
They could say "Frame Tree" meaning actually "Flame tree".
Thai "aroi" means tasty, but could sound like "aloi" at times.

Some Thai words have two pronunciations to learn. The official pronunciation and the colloquial one.
Almost every Thai word that begins with "kl" (unaspirated k) is pronounced as "k" or "g" with the "L" being silent.
E. g. "klua" meaning afraid, is pronounced "gua" and "kluay" (banana) is pronounced "goo-way" (falling tone).
However if aspirated "kh" sound then any "L" is not dropped e. G. "Khlong" (a canal).
Many Thais change words starting "khw" to "f" sound, even though it shows being a bit uneducated:
"khwaa" meaning "to the right" becomes "faa" (rising tone).
"Sanyalagam" (surgeries) is sometimes pronounced "Sanya-gam" but more commonly the extra lazy way "Sai-ya-gam".

Thai schools tend to teach the official pronunciations. However need to request to be taught the colloquial way.
Without a teacher, pronunciation is too difficult to master.
I read that AAA Thai language school is very strict on pronunciation. That is good. You don't want to learn wrong pronunciation from the start and try to correct it later. You need to learn how mouth is shaped and what happens to the tongue etc.

The purpose of this article is to indicate that you can't really learn Thai in the beginning by yourself, if you want to be any good at all. A teacher needs to fix the pronunciation mistakes. A Farang person's ears are not tuned to hear the pronunciation errors.

It took me a long time to get the Girl's name "Ae" close to right. "Ae" is a misleading spelling as well, and "Aey" is even worse.
It sounds somewhere between "air" with no "are" sound and like "say" with no "s" and no "why" sound maybe like "eh".
Mouth is wide but quite closed up in vertical direction. I recall as a beginner I could just not hear that I was doing not quite right, by wrongly adding a 'why' sound to the end.

Tummen
12-22-17, 13:22
Thank you!

Your effort is appreciated!

Syzygies
09-16-18, 10:37
Thailand has quite a few Dialects:

Central normal Thai (with a written script). Best to learn Central Standard Thai since you will then be understood throughout Thailand and Laos. Laos people watch Thai TV.

Southern Thai. Some different words and different pronunciation, e. G. Song and Saam (for 2 and 3) are rising toe in Thai but a weird form of sing song falling tone in Southern Thai.

Northern Thai. Again some differing vocab and differing pronunciation to central Thai. I have seen Lanna script on sign posts but can't read it. LOL.

Isaan (Ee-saan) dialect (North Eastern). Has no official script however is considered to be close to Laos language (which does have a script differing from Thai script- but semi readable). Again pronunciation varies and has special vocab. Different provinces have slightly different pronunciation as well.

Khmer (Kha-main) is actually an ancient Cambodian dialect, not very close to Thai at all, so Thai speakers can only understand a few words that happen to be in common. Spoken in Surin and Sisaket. This Khmer dialect is not well understood by people living in Cambodia, and visa versa, since is not close to modern Cambodian.

Suay is another language spoken in some Isaan regions.

Other minority dialects. See http://www.thai-language.com/id/590101.

Learn Thai first. Then can get a list of the most common words used in the dialect.

E. g. http://www.thai-language.com/id/590082.

Paiboon publishes some books on Thai dialects, however I found the way they show tones to be inconsistent and confusing like the author was confused too. Still useful to get some common vocab.

There are also rules for Consonant and vowel replacements that the dialect uses. E. g. Isaan "hak" replaces "rak" (meaning love).

By immersion you can get used to the different way the locals pronounce Isaan words.

When Isaan word is essentially same as a Thai word, but with different pronunciation, I write a script that describes the pronunciation, which can use Thai script altered or Romanised script. There is no official Isaan script. Too much effort to learn Laos script I think.

Learn simple phrases in the regional dialect so when hear them will understand.

Try to hear the tone and other variations from normal Thai and copy the simplest stuff.

If locals speak in Isaan, can be better to answer in normal Thai unless very confident of getting it right in the Isaan way.

It is hard to find a good teacher for a regional dialect. In my experience the locals pronounce words automatically with little technical understanding of the tones, since there is no written language equivalent. Subtleties of tones are hard to hear for the inexperienced (including myself), since not same as normal Thai tones. It is hard to find a teacher that really understands the dialect tones on a technical level.

Be prepared to take a significant time of immersion to get used to local dialects and improved understanding. Age is a barrier that slows you down. Just accept that an old brain is a stubborn one, and a lot of repetition is needed. My Isaan ability improves very slowly.

Some Thai girls from Surin can speak English, Thai, Isaan / Laos, Khmer, and Suay. Quite surprising.

Rick Rock
09-16-18, 13:37
There are more languages in Thailand than dialects. You've got:

Thai.

Lao (Isan).

Lanna (Northern Thai).

Pak Thai (Southern Thai).

Shan (Tai Yai).

Tai Lue.

Northern Khmer (Khmer Surin).

Suay.

Jarrai.

Karen.

Kachin.

Lihu.

Lasu.

Akha.

Burmese.

Arabic.

Hmong.

Wa.

Vietnamese.

Mandarin.

Mon.

Hokkien.

And a few more!

Thai and Lao (which is also what the people in Isan speak) are mutually intelligible but considered separate languages. Lanna and Thai are mutually intelligible, but Lanna is often considered a dialect of Thai. These kinds of classifications usually have more to do with politics than practical reality. When Thailand was being formed there was a major push made to reclassify the subject people of the Siamese Empire as "Thais. ".

One interesting example is that the Thais called the Lanna language "Lao" when Lanna was an independent empire, but in reality Lanna is more closely related to Thai than to the Lao language!

The reality is that if you can speak and understand Thai / Lao / Lanna you can understand and be understood by Thai / Lao / Lanna.

You'll have a lot more problems with anyone speaking "Pak Thai" in the South. The say are instead of L and cut a lot of their words short, and there are many other differences too. The reality again though is that you wouldn't have any problem in practice, because Pak Thai speakers can also speak Thai!

The Thai's call the Shan people "Tai Yai" or "big Thai. " The people are related, overlap in geography and migrated along similar roots. Their languages are related scientifically speaking, but they're not mutually intelligible at all.

As a further matter of clarification: Northern Khmer (Khmer Surin) is absolutely not a dialect of Thai. It's a dialect of Khmer. Both are mutually intelligible. Northern Khmer is closer to the older form of the Khmer language and a few sounds are different, but otherwise Khmers from Surin, Buriram, Sisaket, Roi Et and the other parts of Thailand that have long been inhabited by Khmers can speak with their erstwhile compatriots from across the border with little problem. They can't read and write Khmer though, because they historically weren't allowed to learn the language after Thailand annexed Surin and declared the people to be "Khmer-Thai. ".

Also, the Thai and Khmer language share a lot of vocabulary. Much of Thai culture is based on what went on under the Khmer Empire, and lots of words came over. If you speak either Thai or Khmer you will routinely hear the same words in both language, though of course Khmer is not tonal so the pronunciation can be different.

Examples of every day words that are the same in Thai and Khmer would be things like: here, this, nose, smart, hole, learn, etc. There are lots and lots of shared words. Don't take my word for it: http://womenlearnthai.com/index.php/khmer-influence-in-thai/ As the article says though, this is a "sensitive subject" in Thailand. Face and all that, you know?

Then the word for your cock is the same in both Khmer and Lao (Isaan) too: it's "krador". How's that? Guess sex tourism has been going on long before the white man showed up!

I don't know if any of this will help you learn Thai enough to understand and be understood in Thailand. Probably your best bet would be to learn "Central Thai" which is just Thai, as that is taught all over the country. Learning another language like Tai Yai or Lao would depend on your situation.

Good luck.

Paolo99
09-16-18, 17:00
Also, the Thai and Khmer language share a lot of vocabulary. Much of Thai culture is based on what went on under the Khmer Empire, and lots of words came over. If you speak either Thai or Khmer you will routinely hear the same words in both language, though of course Khmer is not tonal so the pronunciation can be different.

Examples of every day words that are the same in Thai and Khmer would be things like: here, this, nose, smart, hole, learn, etc. There are lots and lots of shared words. Don't take my word for it: http://womenlearnthai.com/index.php/khmer-influence-in-thai/ As the article says though, this is a "sensitive subject" in Thailand. Face and all that, you know?

Then the word for your cock is the same in both Khmer and Lao (Isaan) too: it's "krador". How's that? Guess sex tourism has been going on long before the white man showed up!

I don't know if any of this will help you learn Thai enough to understand and be understood in Thailand. Probably your best bet would be to learn "Central Thai" which is just Thai, as that is taught all over the country. Learning another language like Tai Yai or Lao would depend on your situation.

Good luck.It's already a lot of effort and time consuming for a basic westerner to learn speaking Thai that I don't see the point of learning these other languages unless one is living in these places and cannot communicate with locals in Thai. Even for the Isan that is probably the most commonly heard by us after the Thai, I found it not easy to understand or talk. I had a very close friend from Isan for 2 years or so, and I just learned a few words that she would often use with me.

I agree that Khmer and Thai are using a few identical vocabular, but these languages are still sounding very different. I'm actually trying to learn Khmer and I was happy each time I saw an identical vocabular as I could learn the lesson more easily (due to my Thai vocabulary background). I'm still in my early weeks of learning the language but I found it very difficult to understand Khmers when they speak their language. Even for words that I've already learnt. I've been told in Phnom Phen that many westerners can speak Khmer over there but I'm wondering what level of Khmer these guys are talking. For example when in Thailand I sometimes hear foreigners speaking Thai but most of them were lacking on the pronunciation even though these guys were clearly expats living there for a long time.

Syzygies
09-17-18, 09:14
It's already a lot of effort and time consuming for a basic westerner to learn speaking Thai that I don't see the point of learning these other languages unless one is living in these places and cannot communicate with locals in Thai. Even for the Isan that is probably the most commonly heard by us after the Thai, I found it not easy to understand or talk. I had a very close friend from Isan for 2 years or so, and I just learned a few words that she would often use with me.

I agree that Khmer and Thai are using a few identical vocabular, but these languages are still sounding very different. I'm actually trying to learn Khmer and I was happy each time I saw an identical vocabular as I could learn the lesson more easily (due to my Thai vocabulary background). I'm still in my early weeks of learning the language but I found it very difficult to understand Khmers when they speak their language. Even for words that I've already learnt. I've been told in Phnom Phen that many westerners can speak Khmer over there but I'm wondering what level of Khmer these guys are talking. For example when in Thailand I sometimes hear foreigners speaking Thai but most of them were lacking on the pronunciation even though these guys were clearly expats living there for a long time.Yes I agree with nearly everything. I don't know Khmer myself, but I can tell it is not easy, especially for someone who is not accustomed to Asian languages. I did learn a few phrases with my taxi driver in Phnom Penh of the modern Khmer, but naturally through lack of use have forgotten them now. Daily repetition is key. I use a flashcards App (Flashcards Deluxe) to learn vocab but it does not overcome learning to listen to the language as spoken. Probably need an expert teacher to explain all the pronunciation nuances, and then need to have practice to listen to it. Talking Language Apps can help. I liked ones that have two speeds for hearing a phrase, normal and slow. I did not think learning modern Khmer would be too difficult compared to Thai, having already had the Thai experience, but only hindered by my age now. Learning Thai, you already get to understand that there are sounds not existing in English. You have already learned the techniques to learn a language that work.

Above all, learning a language, requires, motivation and persistence.

I only start to learn Isaan because I am living immersed in it, so have to listen to it and try to understand. Could be years before I am any good at it.

For Thai, I watched countless hours of Thai soapies in my early years, to practice listening, as chatting to bar girls is only so useful. Also in my early Thai days I would spend multiple days with a girl full time, who could not speak English, so that immersed me completely and forced me to listen to and speak Thai. That happened after only 9 months of formal study, but my initial learning was almost daily practice of some sort and 6 hours teacher training per week.

Very important to concentrate on listening and speaking, so don't be concerned about the very complex Khmer script. Use some sort of Romanised transcription to show the pronunciation. I am sure the books have it.

For sure if I was immersed in the modern Khmer language, I would be making the effort to get to a good basic level. In Thai I have maybe 3000 to 4000 words I know well, but would like to increase that to 8000. Takes a lot of time and repetition. Just the other day, I had no idea how to say "wire mesh" in Thai knowing the basic word for wire only, yet Thai children would know what to say.

Something that slightly puts me off learning the language, is hearing other Expats speak Thai, and thinking they sound a bit funny. Then I wonder how funny the Thais think I sound, especially when I get the tones wrong at times, or even get a vowel wrong (which completely stuffs up the word). The plus side is I can communicate with non English speakers, even have some level of understanding with oldies in the remote villages. At Immigration, when extending my stay in Thailand, the lady seemed to be a bit anti foreigners who stay in Thailand a lot but have no Thai abilities. She seemed to like that we had our conversation fully in Thai, even though I am sure she could speak excellent English. Other Thais prefer to speak English, which is okay By me if their English is really good so that I can understand them easily. I don't like to put up with listening to really badly pronounced English for long. Bad grammar? No problem at all. I think for locals listening to us speak their language, the same should apply. They are okay If our pronunciation is not too horrible.

I must have been with some really patient Thai girls in the early days when my Thai was so weak. I guess it was still better than being with Farangs having zero Thai.

First 6 months of learning Khmer (or any language), I would suggest focus on pronunciation being of paramount importance. Learn it wrong, and you will be a bad speaker for a very long time. Reading and writing can start 2 years later I reckon. Very low priority.

Syzygies
09-17-18, 09:46
There are more languages in Thailand than dialects. You've got:

Thai.

Lao (Isan).

Lanna (Northern Thai).

Pak Thai (Southern Thai).

Shan (Tai Yai).

Tai Lue.

<cut>
Vietnamese.

Mandarin.

Mon.

Hokkien.

And a few more!

Thai and Lao (which is also what the people in Isan speak) are mutually intelligible but considered separate languages. Lanna and Thai are mutually intelligible, but Lanna is often considered a dialect of Thai. These kinds of classifications usually have more to do with politics than practical reality. When Thailand was being formed there was a major push made to reclassify the subject people of the Siamese Empire as "Thais. ".

One interesting example is that the Thais called the Lanna language "Lao" when Lanna was an independent empire, but in reality Lanna is more closely related to Thai than to the Lao language!

The reality is that if you can speak and understand Thai / Lao / Lanna you can understand and be understood by Thai / Lao / Lanna.

You'll have a lot more problems with anyone speaking "Pak Thai" in the South. The say are instead of L and cut a lot of their words short, and there are many other differences too. The reality again though is that you wouldn't have any problem in practice, because Pak Thai speakers can also speak Thai!

The Thai's call the Shan people "Tai Yai" or "big Thai. " The people are related, overlap in geography and migrated along similar roots. Their languages are related scientifically speaking, but they're not mutually intelligible at all.

As a further matter of clarification: Northern Khmer (Khmer Surin) is absolutely not a dialect of Thai. It's a dialect of Khmer. Both are mutually intelligible. Northern Khmer is closer to the older form of the Khmer language and a few sounds are different, but otherwise Khmers from Surin, Buriram, Sisaket, Roi Et and the other parts of Thailand that have long been inhabited by Khmers can speak with their erstwhile compatriots from across the border with little problem. Ha ha. I am sure you have found out a lot more about languages used in Thailand than me.

I did not claim that Khmer spoken in Thailand was a dialect of Thai, only it is a dialect of Khmer spoken in Thailand (not spoken outside of Thailand I guess other than by modern migration of those speakers). I have noticed some words in common with Thai or close. I don't know if Suay exists outside of Thailand to any significant extent or not. I did not bother to list most languages spoken in multiple countries or primarily spoken elsewhere, otherwise we would be listing everything, and I did not claim to be totally comprehensive.

Southern Thai language is known as Phaasaa Phaak Tai, or Phaasaa Pak Tai, not really "Pak Thai" (never heard that at all). "Tai" (unaspirated without the letter H) means south, and "Phaak" is a region, but can be pronounced short "Pak" by the locals.

Yes I did not list all the mountain peoples languages, that are really quite numerous. I am not sure we need to include Vietnamese and Mandarin here as not mainly used in Thailand, but clearly and group of people descended from foreigners (or travellers) can speak any language they like, including English. I have met quite a few Philippinos working in Bangkok too, and heard Deutsch fairly frequently. I suppose was quite inconsistent for me to list Khmer and Suay since not Thai dialects, but I included them basically only because I experienced to hear them more frequently in Thailand and do not hear them any where else. I have heard Shan language in Mae Hong Son and did not understand much of it. Similarly used a hairdresser with Kaliang (Akha) staff and no clues what they were saying. I guess many guys have been to the southern Islands with Myanmar staff too.

I have known a Shan (Tai Yai or Thai Yai) girl for many years, she speaks Thai in a funny way, probably close to Lanna style, so I got used to her strange pronunciations of Thai words. I could semi understand her speaking to friends on the phone so had to guess that might not have been Shan language she was using, although there are at least some common words (with Lanna Thai - not sure just how much). She eventually learned to read and write Thai (as an adult), as her first written language, so her spelling is worse than mine. I communicate with another Laos girl whose Thai spelling is also worse than mine, but we get by.

Most Surin girls say they can't really communicate with real Cambodian girls and visa versa in Khmer language (the dialects are a bit too dissimilar). So I think "mutually understandable" is an exaggeration according to what the speakers tell me. The girl from "Boy Bpaet" told me it is much easier for her to communicate with Surin girls in Thai language and she indicated Surin Khmer was like an ancient Khmer dialect. Another girl from Siem Riep seemed to agree. She looks Thai so when I first met her and she wanted to speak English instead of Thai, I thought she was just "dutjarit" but later could see her Thai was not clearly pronounced. Don't know if that is completely true about being Ancient Khmer (is just what Cambodian girls believe or have been taught), but would make sense based on Isaan regions being part of the Khmer empire in the distant past hence the Khmer style temples in Buri Ram, Phi Mai, Sisaket, Surin, etc.

Thai has borrowed words from Khmer and from English, from Cantonese, etc. I was shocked to learn that I could understand a price quoted in Cantonese because the Thai numbers clearly got borrowed from Chinese. On other hand Vietnamese appears to have almost zero words in common with Thai, I was yet to find one.

Syzygies
09-17-18, 11:59
Similarly used a hairdresser with Kaliang (Akha) staff and no clues what they were saying. Got that wrong. Kaliang (Thai word) are the "Karen" probably much more plentiful in Thailand than the Akha.

Although Thailand has about 74 languages, the most common are:
Central Thai (first language of 20M and spoken by 60M), Isaan (Lao) (first Language of 15.8M and spoken by 23M), Muang Kham (Northern Thai) (6M as first Language), Pak Tai (Southern Thai) (4.5M), Northern Khmer (1.4M), and Yawi-Malay (1.4M), and then to minor languages, e.g. various Karen dialects and Kuy (Soui/Suay) (0.4M). Apparently the Thailand Khmer and Malay are both quite divergent dialects compared to normal Cambodian and normal Malay.

Fortuantely Isaan/Lao is closely enough related to Thai that I can understand about 50% of it. Many vocab words purely have altered pronunciation. Nearly all the plants, vegies, and Fruits have Isaan names to learn. "Bak Nat" (Thai sapparot) is pineapple,"Bak sii daa" (Farang) is a Guava, "bak hung" (malagor) is Papaya,"bak khaam" (Makhaam) Tamarind . It is easier to learn names of objects and things than the other parts of speech. It just seems like giving them a nickname. Similarly other dialects can have their own names for common things. However using Thai names for fruits is generally quite acceptable, just as speaking normal Thai can be understood very well every where (except by my Hotel staff right now, who are foreigners. Ha ha).

My personal goal now is to learn just a few hundred of the most common Isaan words, that are different to Thai words (not just pronounced slightly differently). That will hopefully boost my understanding of Isaan people from about 50% to about 70% or so. If I was staying in Bangkok, I certainly would not bother.

Rick Rock
09-17-18, 13:16
I did not claim that Khmer spoken in Thailand was a dialect of Thai, only it is a dialect of Khmer spoken in Thailand (not spoken outside of Thailand I guess other than by modern migration of those speakers).Northern Khmer is also spoken over the border in parts of Cambodia. Remember that they are the same people. The Khmer in Siem Reap for example is pretty close to the Khmer in Surin. In any event the Khmer living in Surin and other parts of Thailand can totally understand and be understood by speakers of what they call "Khmer Krom" -- the somewhat standard dialect used in Phnom Penh and most of the middle of the country now.


I have noticed some words in common with Thai or close.Many many many words. I speak both languages and it's sometimes shocking how many Khmer words the Thai use.

There are also the regionally common words like "Phasa" in Thai, which is Pisa in Khmer, Bahasa in Malay or Indonesia.


I don't know if Suay exists outside of Thailand to any significant extent or not. Yes it exists across the border in Cambodia. The Suay people were cut in half by the border, just like the Jarai and the Khmer. They're not called Suay in Cambodia though. They're called Khmer boran. They call themselves "Kuy" actually, not Suay. Suay is a Thai word that means something like subordinates.


I did not bother to list most languages spoken in multiple countries or primarily spoken elsewhere, otherwise we would be listing everything, and I did not claim to be totally comprehensive.No problem. Everyone pretty much speaks Thai as it was forced so if you learn Thai you can communicate with most people in Thailand. Depending on where you are though you can find that more people actually speak other languages than Thai. For example I've been in a place where Shan was spoken by nearly everyone, but of course they all spoke Thai too.


Southern Thai language is known as Phaasaa Phaak Tai, or Phaasaa Pak Tai, not really "Pak Thai" (never heard that at all). "Tai" (unaspirated without the letter H) means south, and "Phaak" is a region, but can be pronounced short "Pak" by the locals.The language is called Pak Thai or Thai Thin Tai. I would write it out in Thai but I guess we can't use non-English letters here. Phasa just means language. Like Phasa Thai or Phasa Khmen.


I am not sure we need to include Vietnamese and Mandarin here as not mainly used in ThailandThere are actually significant speakers of both languages, not related to current tourists at all.

Fifteen percent of the population of Thailand is actually Chinese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Chinese.

Vietnamese are more limited, but they're in Thailand as a result of several migrations. Tens of thousands living there for a long time. Here's a map showing where they're concentrated: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Thailand_ethnic_map.svg/600px-Thailand_ethnic_map.svg.png.

The funny thing is that there are also Thai people in Vietnam. Lots in fact. Check it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_people.

Most borders are arbitrary. That's really true in Southeast Asia.


I suppose was quite inconsistent for me to list Khmer and Suay since not Thai dialects, but I included them basically only because I experienced to hear them more frequently in Thailand and do not hear them any where else. I have heard Shan language in Mae Hong Son and did not understand much of it. Similarly used a hairdresser with Kaliang (Akha) staff and no clues what they were saying. I guess many guys have been to the southern Islands with Myanmar staff too.Location will decide many things. Around the bars, in Bangkok and Pattaya you're mostly going to hear Lao and Central Thai. The Khmers rarely use Khmer in public because they don't want to be different. If you go to Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai, you'll regularly hear Shan and probably also Akha and maybe Karen. It's all over Thailand though. Lots of workers in Bangkok restaurants even in big and expensive modern malls hold Burmese passports and are Karen, Kachin, Shan or something other than Thai. Same goes for lots and lots of workers up north.


Most Surin girls say they can't really communicate with real Cambodian girls and visa versa in Khmer language (the dialects are a bit too dissimilar).Absolutely not true. Most Khmer girls in Thailand just have never been to Cambodia or met other "Khmer Krom", and they're taught that they are "Khmer Thai" as a totally distinct population from birth so they say stuff like this.

I speak both languages. When I meet Khmers in Thailand I speak to them only in Khmer. I have also been with many Khmer friends from Cambodia in Thailand and we've all spoken in Khmer regularly including in Walking Street go go bars and on Soi 6. Never had a problem with any Khmer girl from Surin / Sisaket / Buriram / Roi Et. Northern Khmer is a dialect of Khmer, not a different language. It's totally and completely intelligible with the Khmer spoken in Phnom Penh, even more the Khmer spoken in Siem Reap.

Northern Khmer is much closer to Khmer than Lao is to Thai, but even Lao and Thai are mutually intelligible.


The girl from "Boy Bpaet" told me it is much easier for her to communicate with Surin girls in Thai language and she indicated Surin Khmer was like an ancient Khmer dialect.Probably she doesn't know Khmer that well. Probably she only heard it from her mom or dad, and rarely anywhere else. Definitely she didn't learn it in school. She was taught Thai instead. This is the policy of Thailand. So as a product of assimilation she's more comfortable with Thai. Same thing happens everywhere like second and third generation Latinos in the United States who speak "Spanglish" because they're not actually fluent in Spanish beyond the kind of words you would share with your mom or dad.


Thai has borrowed words from Khmer and from English, from Cantonese, etc.Thai is closer to Khmer than any other language in terms of shared vocabulary, even though Thai is from a different language group. The Thais were under the Khmer empire for a very long time and based a lot of their civilization on it. There are many Khmer words in Thai. It's a huge chunk of the language.

Smart = Thai: chalat. Khmer: chalat.

Hole = Thai: roon. Khmer: roon.

Here = Thai: thini. Khmer: tini.

This = Thai: ni. Khmer: ni.

Even whole phrases are very similar like "come here," "how many," etc.


I was shocked to learn that I could understand a price quoted in Cantonese because the Thai numbers clearly got borrowed from Chinese.Yes, the numbers are almost totally the same. You can also use the same numbers in Khmer if you're counting in tens.

30 = Thai: sam ship. Khmer: sam sup.

40 = Thai: sai ship. Khmer: sai sup.

50 = Thai: ha ship. Khmer: ha sup.

60 = Thai: hok ship. Khmer: hok sup.

Etc.

But while the Thai use Cantonese numbers for everything, Khmer have their own numbers up to 20. So 30 in Thai is "sam sip sam" while in Khmer it is "sam sup bai".


On other hand Vietnamese appears to have almost zero words in common with Thai, I was yet to find one.Well hot in Thai is "lon" and cold in Vietnamese is "lanh" and they're pronounced almost exactly the same, so there's that.

But seriously, there are actually some cognates though, probably from Chinese influence since both the Vietnamese and Thais migrated south from what is now China.

Chicken = Thai: gai. Vietnamese: ga.

Tea = Thai: cha. Vietnamese: tra.

Noodle = Thai: mi. Vietnamese: mi. (And noodle in Khmer is: mi).

According to linguists Vietnamese is in the Austro Asiatic family (with Khmer) and Thai is in the Kra Dai family. But Thai and Khmer have lots of cognates which Khmer and Vietnamese have very few.

Rick Rock
09-17-18, 13:20
Got that wrong. Kaliang (Thai word) are the "Karen" probably much more plentiful in Thailand than the Akha.Thais use "kaliang" for any "mountain people" including lots of people who aren't from any mountains. The same way they call lots of people Burmese who are actually Karen, Kachin, etc.

There are more than a million Karen in Thailand (not sure where your 400,000 number comes from). A lot of them speak Karen, Thai and Burmese. There are only 500,000 Akha in the whole world, so definitely not as common. But if you go into some places you can meet lots and lots of them. I know a place in Chiang Mai that is almost entirely Akha, but again they all speak Thai anyway. I never got further than learning to count to 10 in Akha.


My personal goal now is to learn just a few hundred of the most common Isaan words, that are different to Thai words (not just pronounced slightly differently). That will hopefully boost my understanding of Isaan people from about 50% to about 70% or so. If I was staying in Bangkok, I certainly would not bother.I'm sure you've already learned the word for cock in Lao. It's a great word to know, not only for horny guys, but also because it's the same in Cambodia, Laos and with all Isan people in Thailand who make up most of the prostitute population.

Enjoy!

Rick Rock
09-17-18, 13:54
It's already a lot of effort and time consuming for a basic westerner to learn speaking Thai that I don't see the point of learning these other languages unless one is living in these places and cannot communicate with locals in Thai.Well there are millions of people in Thailand who speak languages other than Thai, so it just depends on what you want to do. I agree with you generally though and I said as much in my earlier post. Learning Thai makes the most sense for most people as most everyone in Thailand speaks it.


Even for the Isan that is probably the most commonly heard by us after the Thai, I found it not easy to understand or talk. I had a very close friend from Isan for 2 years or so, and I just learned a few words that she would often use with me.Lao is perhaps more useful for the general person than something like Lanna would be since almost everyone in Lao PDR speaks it. Then again, Thai and Lao are mutually intelligible so again you wouldn't have to learn Lao to get around in Lao PDR, and definitely not to get around in Isan!


I agree that Khmer and Thai are using a few identical vocabular, but these languages are still sounding very different. I'm actually trying to learn Khmer and I was happy each time I saw an identical vocabular as I could learn the lesson more easily (due to my Thai vocabulary background). I'm still in my early weeks of learning the language but I found it very difficult to understand Khmers when they speak their language. Even for words that I've already learnt.I wonder what your native language is. It might matter. I found exactly the opposite that Thai was much more difficult. Reason being that Thai is a tonal language unlike almost all Western languages including my native English. Khmer is not tonal of course, just like English. Probably if your native language is tonal like Mandarin or Vietnamese it would be much easier to learn Thai.

Many Khmers can speak Thai. Not many Thais can speak Khmer. Sure there are reasons for that like lots of Khmer workers in Thailand, but that's not it. I know some Thais doing business in Cambodia for years. Even when they try they have problems. They turn the "are" sound into "L" or "and". That's why they call Khmers "Khmen. " On the contrary Khmers in Thailand speak Thai without a problem, even when they're uneducated manual laborers doing very tough jobs on the margins of society.

Vietnamese who live in Cambodia have trouble with a lot of sounds too. Even when they are in the country for years or decades there are some words they just can't say. The number five "pram" becomes "paum" for them.


I've been told in Phnom Phen that many westerners can speak Khmer over there but I'm wondering what level of Khmer these guys are talking. For example when in Thailand I sometimes hear foreigners speaking Thai but most of them were lacking on the pronunciation even though these guys were clearly expats living there for a long time.I haven't met many Farang who can speak Thai. Most guys I know in Thailand speak a few scattered Thai words. The best speakers are okay but often fall back into English. I have met some who are probably fluent, and I don't doubt there are more. But yes, most farangs in Thailand speak little Thai which is somewhat strange since most Thais speak little English. Then again Thai is tonal and English is not. In my opinion the languages are very different.

The US Foreign Service Institute seems to agree. For native English speakers it puts Thai and Lao in the third most difficult of the four language groups. Oddly it puts Khmer in the same group though, which I don't agree with. You don't need to learn tones in Khmer and changing the tone of the word doesn't change the meaning.

In Cambodia few foreigners speak Khmer that I know of, but my friends and associates who do are all near fluency. But a lot of Khmers speak English and other languages, so foreigners can get around easily. For example any taxi that picks you up at the airport in Phnom Penh can speak and read English. Not the case in Thailand even though it has millions more tourists. I was once picked up by a taxi driver in Chiang Rai who was nearly fluent in English and I was very pleasantly surprised. Then I found out he was actually Karen.

Syzygies
09-19-18, 07:54
Many Khmers can speak Thai. Not many Thais can speak Khmer. Sure there are reasons for that like lots of Khmer workers in Thailand, but that's not it. I know some Thais doing business in Cambodia for years. Even when they try they have problems. They turn the "are" sound into "L" or "and". That's why they call Khmers "Khmen. " On the contrary Khmers in Thailand speak Thai without a problem, even when they're uneducated manual laborers doing very tough jobs on the margins of society.

I haven't met many Farang who can speak Thai. Most guys I know in Thailand speak a few scattered Thai words. The best speakers are okay but often fall back into English. I have met some who are probably fluent, and I don't doubt there are more. But yes, most farangs in Thailand speak little Thai which is somewhat strange since most Thais speak little English. Then again Thai is tonal and English is not. In my opinion the languages are very different.
I can't specify for Khmer, but I can say that Thai are and L sound are not at all the same as English, and hence they do sound different, especially when speaking English words with are and L. So they don't exactly swap them either, is just depends what our ears think it sounds like compared to an English sound.

English R has a somewhat rounded small mouth. Thai R is pronounced with horizontally wider stretched mouth. They may roll Rs especially if they are from Khmer speaking region (LOL). English L, the tongue must flick the top teeth. Thai L does not do that and hence does not sound like proper L to us. Thais might say "I rove you" or sound that way. LOL Yet Aroi can sound like Aloi because pronounced in more lazy way. Thais do not say "Flied Lice". That is a myth, and they really cannot say "Flied Lice" (due to lack of tongue flick) or maybe its the way some Chinese do it. "Flame Tree" sounded very like "Frame Tree" to me.

As a Thai speaker, I did not feel that Khmer was so difficult although recognised that some sounds and constructions were completely new to me and would take time to be able to hear them. Lack of Tones is a bonus. Also lack of conjugations, case endings, etc. Make a language much easier. Simple grammar.

I read this " The Northern Khmer dialect is spoken by over a million Khmers in the southern regions of Northeast Thailand and is treated by some linguists as a separate language. " So Thailand Khmer is very different to modern Central Khmer.

Just yesterday, listened to a group of Thais from Phuket conversing. The tones were quite different to central Thai (as expected) and some words cut short. Yet I found them a lot easier to understand than Isaan speakers. It must be that the special Southern word Vocab is not so prevalent, and mostly normal Thais words are used (if slightly altered).

I speak Thai 80% of my time in Thailand, but that is because conversing with non Thais infrequently. I also don't meet that many Farangs I would consider to be very fluent in Thai. Most of them sound quaint or funny, more than fluent (expats in the local pub). I have met some quite fluent speakers that were Japanese, Indian, from Myanmar etc. Fluent Farangs exist but I am just not in their social arena. I recognise my limitations. 12 year old kids are much more fluent than me. Perhaps one day I will go get tested at the University to see what they think my level is. There are plenty of English constructs that I struggle to get into Thai. I can come up with something understandable, but may be a clumsy construct. Today did not know the right word for "glueing something on to something else". I know the word for glue but that is not a verb. So I had to say something more like "use glue to make something stick to the other thing". So Farangs often need to say something in a slightly strange way due to limited vocab. Other day wanted to talk about the Hotel carpark "boom gate". Had no clue what that might be called in Thai. LOL "maay pit thang" "maay haam phaan" were my crude thoughts meaning like "plank to block the path". LOL We invent! Later I thought just try the obvious "pratuu boom" (sometimes English words can be borrowed for modern age things) which could mean "boom gate". Even now I still don't know as hard to find in the dictionary. Fortunate we can use English in most Hotels, but staff might not know what a "Boom Gate" is anyway (perhaps they do). Some things just don't come up in frequent conversation. So education in a language needs to be ongoing with high frequency, like daily would be better.

If I could fully understand the TV News in Thailand, then I would be able to rate myself as fluent. All I can claim is fluent enough for casual conversation. There was a TV program with Chuwit (politician ex Soapy owner) as host. He spoke so slowly and clearly that I could understand him miles better than the normal news. I enjoyed that program as was a good source for listening to Thai. Chuwit mentioned a lot of detail about soapies using artesian water, and other scandalss, so he covers topics in the news and politics and makes it easier to follow, for not so highly educated persons (in Thai matters). Some radio programs have very clear slow speakers too. Sometimes just have to find something that suits your level.

Interesting that Lao is the language of country of Laos. Initially I did not know the name of the language drops the S. Lao is close to Thai Isaan dialect but perhaps not quite identical, so best that the Isaan language be considered to be a Lao dialect (without using official Lao script).

Syzygies
09-19-18, 08:31
Thais use "kaliang" for any "mountain people" including lots of people who aren't from any mountains. The same way they call lots of people Burmese who are actually Karen, Kachin, etc.

There are more than a million Karen in Thailand (not sure where your 400,000 number comes from). A lot of them speak Karen, Thai and Burmese. There are only 500,000 Akha in the whole world, so definitely not as common. But if you go into some places you can meet lots and lots of them. I know a place in Chiang Mai that is almost entirely Akha, but again they all speak Thai anyway. I never got further than learning to count to 10 in Akha.

I'm sure you've already learned the word for cock in Lao. It's a great word to know, not only for horny guys, but also because it's the same in Cambodia, Laos and with all Isan people in Thailand who make up most of the prostitute population.

Enjoy!
My 400K was for a language. I got it from Wikipedia. Could be out of date. Your million Karen may well speak differing first languages.

If you refer to the word, for dick(penis) then I know numerous words for that. Hum (Ham - rising tone) is the most obvious and frequently used word here in Isaan I believe, but there are lots. I don't know what is used mostly in Cambodia or Laos. Obviously I also know the profane one "Khuay" (perhaps not so profane here in Isaan), which I don't use myself (pays to be a bit more polite and would be a bad habit). Someone mentioned Kradaw (Krador) the other day. Then we have Krajiaw, Juu, etc. Plenty of Pussy words too.
A young boy is known colloquially in Isaan as "bak hum noi" meaning basically "little dick".

ภาษาภาคใต้
Phasaa Phaak Tai (is the southern Thai language). It includes the word Tai meaning south rather than the word Thai (at the end). Phaak Tai is directly meaning southern region.

Southerners themselves and some Thais shorten Phaak to be Pak. So "Pak Tai" means the South of Thailand, not "Pak Thai" which is sort of meaningless, or would sound like a political party name. So I am 99% certain your "pak Thai" is not correct. Never heard of it in 27 years. You should recheck that. Quote somewhere official. I don't think you can find it.
Yes also called ภาษาท้องถิ่น (Phaasaa Thong Thin) could be Phasaa Thai Thong Thin, (but not "Pak Thai" which would mean Thai Region or Thai party)

Syzygies
09-19-18, 08:48
Yes it exists across the border in Cambodia. The Suay people were cut in half by the border, just like the Jarai and the Khmer. They're not called Suay in Cambodia though. They're called Khmer boran. They call themselves "Kuy" actually, not Suay. Suay is a Thai word that means something like subordinates.


Probably she doesn't know Khmer that well. Probably she only heard it from her mom or dad, and rarely anywhere else. Definitely she didn't learn it in school. She was taught Thai instead. This is the policy of Thailand. So as a product of assimilation she's more comfortable with Thai. Same thing happens everywhere like second and third generation Latinos in the United States who speak "Spanglish" because they're not actually fluent in Spanish beyond the kind of words you would share with your mom or dad.
I used the Suay because the Thai girl told me she speaks Suay language, as comes from that region. It may be a Thai derogatory term I used "Kuy" also.

Of course the Cambodian girl was born in Cambodia and educated there, not in Thailand. She has no Thai ID card so cannot work in the bars. As she lived near the border she learned Thai as well. She told me she could not understand Surin Khmer language well, as was too different to her native modern Cambodian. I have heard her speak Cambodian and did not understand. I don't know her fluency (naturally) . Fine if you disagree. She obviously speaks Cambodian with her parents and neighbours in Cambodia and when she went to school. Her Thai is probably not perfect. I read that Phnom Penh Khmer is also a different dialect to central Khmer, but lack expertise in Khmer myself. Surin Khmer speakers also told me that they could not understand native Cambodians that well. Not sure why you would suggest that they never met one. Silly. It could be they lack fluency, yes, or like have kiddy level Khmer only having been in a Surin Community. I guess it fades away with the young.

Rick Rock
09-20-18, 07:56
It could be they lack fluency, yes, or like have kiddy level Khmer only having been in a Surin Community. I guess it fades away with the young.Exactly. Like I said I am near fluent in Khmer. When I go to Thailand and meet Khmer Surin I speak to them in Khmer. They speak to me in their dialect of Khmer. We understand each other completely. Same goes for my Khmer friends and partners from Cambodia in Thailand. This has been going on for years. I have only seen one bit of confusion ever and that was when a Khmer Surin used the word "satang" which the Cambodians had never heard. But that's a Thai coin, not a Khmer word, so it's expected.

Also, Khmer Surin are not taught Khmer in school. That's a fact. That's why the younger generations are losing the language. Many can speak some words but not others. They're conversational but not fluent, like farang who can speak and understand Thai but not watch a Thai television show and understand it. Almost no Khmer Surin can read or write in Khmer. This is all Thai policy going back almost 100 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaification#Education.

On top of that the vast majority of Khmer Surin have never been to Cambodia or met actual Cambodians from Cambodia. They've been isolated from Cambodia and surrounded by Thais for many years, and they're under the Central Thai authority which teaches them Thai. So if they say Khmer sounds strange to them it's no surprise. They are still absolutely and totally speaking the same language though, and it's as mutually intelligible as UK English and American English are. I know from experience.


I read that Phnom Penh Khmer is also a different dialect to central Khmer, but lack expertise in Khmer myself.Sort of, but that's like saying "New York has a different dialect than Detroit. " True enough, but insignificant for any language learner. Someone who learns English in Brooklyn and then goes to Detroit asking for a "wooter" is still going to get a bottle of the wet stuff.


Other day wanted to talk about the Hotel carpark "boom gate". I don't know what that means and English is my native language. Does that mean we speak different languages?


So I am 99% certain your "pak Thai" is not correct. Often wrong, but never uncertain?

"Southern Thai, also known as Pak Thai or Dambro, is a Southwestern Tai language spoken in the fourteen provinces of southern Thailand as well as by small communities in the northernmost Malaysian states. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pak_Thai

But hey, "mai pen rai"

Enjoy the world of language guys!

Edit: typed some things in Thai, but the forum software rejected it. Last try on that!

Rick Rock
09-20-18, 08:07
Interesting that Lao is the language of country of Laos. Initially I did not know the name of the language drops the S. Lao is close to Thai Isaan dialect but perhaps not quite identical, so best that the Isaan language be considered to be a Lao dialect (without using official Lao script).There is no "Laos" and never has been. That's just a farang (literally French in this case) invention. The country is called the Lao People's Democratic Republic, or "Pathet Lao" in Lao. (This sounds a lot like "Brates Khmer" in Khmer or "Prathes Thai" in Thai, doesn't it?) The people are called Lao people. The language is called the Lao language.

But it's like Thai. If you speak Thai in Thailand you'll be understood, even by the Khmers and Malays there. If you say "Laos" in English or French you'll be understood too, even by the Lao.

There's no Isan language either, in the same way that there's no "American language. " Americans and the English speak the same language even if asking for "chips" gets you different things in one place or the other.

The people of Isan are Lao people and they speak Lao. They just happened to fall under the Thai central authority. Later they were declared to be "Thai Isan" in the same way the Khmers under the Central Thai authority become "Thai Khmer" or whatever.

"The ancient Lao kingdom of Lan Xang encompassed the entirety of what is now Thailand's Northeast, where most still share a language and culture with people on the opposite bank of the Mekong. While it is historically correct to say that Lao became a tributary of Siam during the early Rattanakosin Era, its people never became Thai, not even those in Isaan. " - http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Lao-are-lazy-The-problem-with-Thai-superiority-30296890.html.

Depending on how you look at it, it might not matter that much since even the Lao and Thai languages (both in the same language family) are mutually intelligible.

I don't think any of this will help people learn Thai though, so I'll stop here. Have fun learning guys!

Syzygies
09-20-18, 11:47
There is no "Laos" and never has been. That's just a farang (literally French in this case) invention. The country is called the Lao People's Democratic Republic, or "Pathet Lao" in Lao. (This sounds a lot like "Brates Khmer" in Khmer or "Prathes Thai" in Thai, doesn't it?) The people are called Lao people. The language is called the Lao language.
This is a slightly silly argument. In English it is known as Laos (with a silent S. Maybe crazy coming from French. Who cares). Similarly you could have argue there is no Germany, its really Deutschland, and there is no Spain (only Espania), no Italy (only Italia), Morroco is spelled wrong too. There was never really any Siam before, it was really Sayaam. Siam led to gross mispronunciation (and unrecognisable to Thai people), but that is what westerners used for unknown reasons.

Thailand is internally known as "Phrathet Thai" but impossible to spell absolutely correctly in English really, so hence Thailand. You can write "Phrathes" if you want but final letter is pronounced like "T", not like "S". Lao/Isaan drops the "R" sound.

Thai words/syllables ending in CH, SH, S, D, TH, T, J are all pronounced like a T. Phad Thai is really Phat Thai (sounds like Putt Thai - never like Pad Thai).
Thai words ending in L, R, N are pronounced like N. Words ending in F are pronounced P. Fortunately some ending sounds stay the same, like K, P, T (only 3 cut off stop ending sounds), W, M, N, NG, Y, and words ending in a vowel.

In addition Thai has many words with a silent final letter. So no big deal to me if Laos name has a silent "S". Pity that many English speakers would not know though, so Lao would be better or Laoland LOL. Perhaps is done to make a distinction between the country and the language, since normally English does not use same name for both the country and the language, e.g Myanmar and Burmese. Are there any exceptions? We do use the same for naming the people and the language, e.g. Russian.

Syzygies
09-20-18, 13:10
Some time I might publish a list of most common few hundred Thai words (those that should be learned as a priority), and most common hundred or so Isaan words, since that would cover enough to get by with, and could be learned using a flash cards App, although correct understanding of pronunciation would need a teacher most likely. Too much effort to include sound, but perhaps links to sound available online is feasible. Paiboon App Thai-English-Thai Talking Dic is very good. Highly recommended. Early days was missing some Thai words, but quite comprehensive these days. Not much cannot be found. Also has some phrases that are useful.

I doubt there is any equivalent for Lao / Isaan, so a list of common Isaan words with English and Thai equivalent is something I am working on.

Rick Rock
09-21-18, 06:26
This is a slightly silly argument. In English it is known as Laos (with a silent S. Maybe crazy coming from French. Who cares). Similarly you could have argue there is no Germany, its really Deutschland, and there is no Spain (only Espania), no Italy (only Italia), Morroco is spelled wrong too. No, not the same. The official name of "Deutschland" in English is Germany, Nippon is Japan, Espania is officially Spain, etc.

The Thais called their lands "Mueang Thai" going way back. Siamese was a name attached to them by outsiders -- various theories exist for the meaning. Cambodians say it meant something like thief, and "Siem Reap" is famously named to mean "Thais defeated" even today. "Siem" is still what many Khmers call the Thais. Northern Khmers do too, and it sounds exactly like "siem," but they only say it in private usually for obvious reasons. Others say "siam" is from a Portuguese mispronunciation of "Xian," a name the area was given by the Chinese. Still others say it was from the Sanskrit word "syama" meaning dark, which could be reasonable since the Thai pronunciation is very close to that. The Thai word would actually be transliterated "syama" under ISO 11940. I have no idea where you get your transliterations with lots of extra letters.

The Thais never hid from the name Siam originally. Monarchs up until Mongkut signed their orders "King of Siam. " The same thing happened with Koreans who call themselves Hangukin. Westerners started calling them "Koreans" which was a mistaken way of interpreting the name of one of their dynasties called "Goryeo. " So now while "Hanminguk" is still the name in Korean, in English it is officially the Republic of Korea. Similar story for the Japanese.

Thailand had a nationalist revolution in the 1930's and they changed the name to Thailand. Nationalists argue "Thai" means free people, while most experts agree it was actually just a local word for "people. " Regardless, the Thai passport says "Thailand" because that's the official English name of the country.

"Laos" is not the official name of anything anywhere. It's just an oft repeated mistake made mostly by people who have no clue about the millions of Lao people in Lao and Isan. It's not on money, it's not on government seals, it's not on official documents, and it's not on the passports they use to interact with the outside world. See attached.

Doubt you'll accept this though, as you don't seem to accept anything that runs counter to your preconceived notions, facts to back it up or otherwise.

Have fun learning "Laos" or is it "Isan"?

Syzygies
09-22-18, 05:10
No, not the same. The official name of "Deutschland" in English is Germany, Nippon is Japan, Espania is officially Spain, etc.

The Thais called their lands "Mueang Thai" going way back. Siamese was a name attached to them by outsiders -- various theories exist for the meaning. Cambodians say it meant something like thief, and "Siem Reap" is famously named to mean "Thais defeated" even today. "Siem" is still what many Khmers call the Thais. Northern Khmers do too, and it sounds exactly like "siem," but they only say it in private usually for obvious reasons. Others say "siam" is from a Portuguese mispronunciation of "Xian," a name the area was given by the Chinese. Still others say it was from the Sanskrit word "syama" meaning dark, which could be reasonable since the Thai pronunciation is very close to that. The Thai word would actually be transliterated "syama" under ISO 11940. I have no idea where you get your transliterations with lots of extra letters.

Yes it is similar. On any English Map you will find the word Laos. Just accept that English used fucked up spellings. In former times you could also find Siam (which was also a misspelling of a word Sayaam which originally meant something like "brown race" apparently). You can't use Lao things to be the official way to spell things in English, and Lao People (or Lao Language) is not the same as the country known as Laos. Union of Soviet Socialists Republic did not stop English people using the word Russia.

From Wikipedia: "In 1938, Phibunsongkhram, an open supporter of Mussolini and Hitler, began moving the government towards the right. By 1942 he had issued a series of cultural decrees' '(ratthaniyom)' or Thai cultural mandates, which reflected the desire for social modernization, but also an authoritarian and exaggerated nationalist spirit. First, in 1939 he changed the country's name of Siam to Thailand (Prathet Thai) (Thai: ประเทศไทย). This was directed against the ethnic diversity in the country (Malay, Chinese, Lao, Shan, etc.) and is based on the idea of a "Thai race", a Pan-Thai nationalism whose program is the integration of the Shan, the Lao and other Tai peoples, such as those in Vietnam, Burma and South China, into a "Great Kingdom of Thailand" (Thai: มหาอาณาจักรไทย). "

Thanks, I did not known that the term Meuang Thai had been used for far longer than "Prathet Thai" when Farangs were using the stupidly spelled term Siam. Thai people tell me the name Sayaam (in local language) was used even before Meuang Thai. So an older term. At least that is what they get taught at school. History is known to be unreliable when very old.

Syzygies
10-08-18, 08:53
When making notes about Thai words or phrases, explain the meaning, a single English word is generally not enough to make the meaning absolutely clear.
Cases where one Thai word equals one English word exist but mostly for very specific nouns.

E. g.

Chaang (high tone) = Elephant.

Chang with other tones has other meanings, e. G. A technician, to weigh something, etc.

However many English words may still have multiple alternatives in Thai, could have informal, scientific, or technical words.

Sunak = Dog (formal Thai).

Maa = Dog (informal Thai).

For English words with many meanings, an English word to a Thai word won't work.

So always use a phrase or several words to describe the precise meaning.

Similarly multiple entries are needed to cover each meaning for Thai words with multiple meanings.

Can = Dai (meaning to be able to).

Can = Krabong (meaning tin can).

Can = Suam (toilet).

Etc.

Amusingly the other day, I learned that the English word "carry" can have maybe twelve different Thai words for carry, depending the exact way something is carried.

Carry goods by truck, or transport something "Khon Song".

Carry in the hands "Theu".

Carry a bag or suitcase by handle "Hiw".

Carry baby in your arms "oom".

Carry in your pocket "Phok".

Hold in the mouth. LOL "Om".

Carry out = "damnoen".

Carry off = "lak".

Carry slung over the shoulder, carry across shoulder, carry at the hip, Carry in a sack, carry on a pole, two persons carry a handle each, carry on the head, carried out to sea, carried on the wind, etc.

In Thai you have to know the right carry word for the occasion. LOL Not sure there is any very general one like English Carry.

The wrong one could sound a bit silly.

So the conveyor belt carried the Japanese Suschi dish to me. I have no clue which "Carry" can be used. LOL Maybe "Khon" rising tone to transport something (could be silly). Maybe "Phaa" to take something to some place. I settle on this last word until have time to ask a Thai person, who probably won't use a carry word at all.

In basic Thai 101 we learned maybe only "Theu" for carry. We could use it and Thais could be confused unless we carried something in our hand only. "Ao pai" is the basic phrase we learn for to take something away to somewhere, and "ao maa" to bring something. These are fortunately more general.

Syzygies
10-23-18, 11:24
กะปู๋คลับ Kapuu Club (sounds like ga-bpoo rising tone). Does not sound like Cap-poo at all. LOL Both the K and P should be unaspirated.

Kabuu/Kapoo is supposed to be a euphemism for penis.

There is a Thai word Krabpohk meaning testicles and another Krajuu meaning boy's dick, so an amalgamation could come out like Kapoo. Maybe? Letter R often gets dropped.

Seems to be a place to get a very over priced massage by hot white skinned young students with probable HJ thrown in. Anything more not guaranteed and girl probably does not want to get naked. I have not really tried these clubs, so no expert, but was wondering about the name.. 27 years ago I tried Chawala, with massage therapists with white uniforms. All manner of groping was allowed but they did not get their shorts off, so sex on premises was not possible. However only a few of the girls were pretty. These type of hand relief massage joint seems to have evolved into Kapoo clubs, mainly for Thais, as expats probably want fully nude porn stars with guaranteed FS, BBBJ, CIM and maybe even anal, more so.

When you see Kapoo, think so ga-boo (rising tone on boo) and that will sound closer to the Thai word.

Member #4628
06-03-19, 18:58
Thailand has become my second home in my heart and I love it. I've been there 8 times till now and I've watched a few videos to learn basic words but I need to learn more so that I can start a conversation on my own in Thai.

(I live in Bangalore, India. Could not find any tutors or institutions to learn Thai).

*If there is a self learning book, could anyone help me with the name? I will be glad to purchase it.

*Online courses / Watching videos helped a bit, but I'm old school and need a book to learn and practice.

*I agree it takes a long time to learn a language, but I'm curious as to how long would it generally talk. People who have learnt the language and live in Thailand, could you tell me how long does it take?

Thanks!

Syzygies
06-04-19, 06:54
Thailand has become my second home in my heart and I love it. I've been there 8 times till now and I've watched a few videos to learn basic words but I need to learn more so that I can start a conversation on my own in Thai.

(I live in Bangalore, India. Could not find any tutors or institutions to learn Thai).

*If there is a self learning book, could anyone help me with the name? I will be glad to purchase it.

*Online courses / Watching videos helped a bit, but I'm old school and need a book to learn and practice.

*I agree it takes a long time to learn a language, but I'm curious as to how long would it generally talk. People who have learnt the language and live in Thailand, could you tell me how long does it take?

Thanks!Thai will be easier for Indians than for Farangs (Westerners). The reason is Thai originates from Sanskrit. Thai pronunciation is not so weird for Indians I guess. Not totally different I am guessing.

You cannot learn Thai purely from a book, because you will stuff up the pronunciation. You can learn Thai with a private teacher over Skype if you can afford it. Bangkok has Thai language schools that advertise possibility to learn using Skype Video session. I have used Skype to learn a language myself. Private lessons. The problem with private lessons is they can be too expensive to get enough hours study per week.

I learned initially from old AUA books with a teacher. The books were good, but I don't know if still available. AUA changed its teaching to the full immersion method where teachers speak only Thai. I personally do not recommend this method if you wants results in a hurry. I also learned to read and write Thai from an AUA book by myself. So you need a teacher for the speaking part, at least in the early stages. It is important that bad habits are corrected by the teacher before become ingrained. I recommend to find a teacher quite strict on correct pronunciation.

You can use modern methods to listen to Thai on the web or using Thai Talking dictionary (by Paiboon). The problem is we are not used to hearing Thai. So if you say something out loud to yourself, you won't even hear the difference from the talking Dictionary speaker's pronunciation. So a tough teacher to correct you becomes important. You also have to learn what mouth shape is needed to make the sounds correctly.

I learn vocab from a Flashcards App, but that is because I have mastered pronunciation already. So I can get by without a teacher.

I have thousands of words in Thai script with meanings in English in a spreadsheet loadable into the App. I use Flashcards Deluxe a very good flashcards app.

When I studied Thai intensively in a class, it was 6 hours per week, with 10 to 20 students. For 3 years. Also if you want to progress well, you should self study / practice every day. That includes saying phrases in Thai out loud to hear yourself. If you study silently you will kid yourself that you know how to say it, but actually might sound silly. Another technique used by classes is to record your own voice and then play it back. It sounds different to what you thought.

Learning a language is based on endless spaced repetition till things become programmed in. To progress fast, you need to put time in every day.

I would say focus very heavily on pronunciation and simple phrases for the first 6 months. Don't worry too much about vocab until the pronunciation is getting good. Trickiest parts of pronunciation are firstly the 5 tones (easy to stuff up the sound and the meaning), secondly the vowels are not like English vowels mostly (only some in common), and lastly some strange unaspirated consonants.

In my early days my Thai improved most when I was stuck with Thai girls 24 hours per day, who did not speak English (in 1991). That forced me to speak Thai, and try to improve. I recommend it if the opportunity arises, even if just a several weeks holiday. Tough to do in Bangalore. Ha ha.

So learn from books if you can but you have to have a native Thai teacher at times to fix your pronunciation, before it is too late. I hear guys at the pub, who probably never had a proper teacher, and have really bad laughable pronunciation. I trust my own is a bit better. I have met an Indian guy with absolute perfect Thai. He is a rich property owner and was probably born here.

Any specific questions about ways to learn, I would try to help, based on my experience. I am now learning Issan dialect and Lao language which is very close to that. I can read Lao script now because is so similar to Thai (and self teaching is possible).

Thai is actually one of the easiest languages on the planet to learn to speak, once you get a hold of the difficult pronunciation aspects. Grammar is very simple. Thai script has an alphabet too and 90% of words have regular spellings, so also not that incredibly difficult. Easier than script from various Indian languages I am sure.

I have seen web sites that rate Thai as a difficult language. I believe they just don't have any understanding at all, of how easy Thai actually is. English is harder, I would believe.

I agree you can't learn just from Videos, paper books or electronic books or website with text become important, and better if sound is available. I believe the Paiboon Thai books come with a CD for sound or a modern equivalent. I am not clear if there are better books or not, I did not use Paiboon to learn myself, but they are well accepted. I used the very old AUA books.

Finding a good book to get from English phrases to Thai, when you are not sure how to say something, is very hard. I used this one:
https://www.bookdepository.com/Robertsons-Practical-English-Thai-Dictionary-Mike-Golding/9780804833851 Maybe hard to get (sold out). Maybe it can be obtained electronically. I don't know. I have a very old one.
This website suggest you can get in e-book form then I guess use it on your phone perhaps:
https://ponkitsu.ml/reviews/e-book-downloads-robertsons-practical-english-thai-dictionary-9780804833851-by-rg-robertson-mike-golding-benjawan-golding-pdf.html

Paiboon Talking dictionary Thai-English-Thai is as good as any (have not seen better) and can be loaded to your phone.

So there I have done my best to recommend things suitable for beginners, that I have used myself or would use.

Syzygies
06-11-19, 12:13
Some Thai words have multiple meanings depending on context. Some meanings are rarely used, some common. Tones added change the word to a different word and with different meanings.

Here I have an extreme example, of several meanings with just 3 tones. 5 tones are possible.
Get the tone wrong and the person may not understand.

A good example:
คอน

(khawn) rhymes with lawn (flat tone)
Meanings:
1. (verb) to carry a single load at the end of a pole held across the shoulder
2. (adjective) is askew; lopsided
3. (noun) roost; perch; landing
4. (verb) to paddle; to row

Then with a tone mark added takes a different tone and different meanings (falling tone mark):
ค่อน

1. (adjective, adverb) is almost; nearly; somewhat; rather
2. (verb) to carp or cavil at
3. (adjective) is more than half; almost full

Then with a different tone mark added takes a different tone and different meanings (high tone mark):
ค้อน

1. (noun) hammer; mallet; gavel
2. (verb) to glance sideways; look askance at

Syzygies
06-16-19, 05:21
One of my early learning tools for English to Thai was Robertson's Practical English to Thai Dictionary. Out of print now but still available as an electronic book (PDF I guess). Was revised by Mike and Benjawan Golding. My copy is old and rather beaten up. It had a yellow paper jacket originally.

I used this a lot when I need to say something to a Thai girl. Had little phrases and showed which meaning of English words was referred to. Reading Thai script was not needed and at the time I could not read Thai script.

This was the best guide going when wanted to say something beyond my early weak range.

It has 5000 Thai words apparently. That might be about what I have. I should do a 2 to 3 pages a day to make sure I know them all, or fill in any gaps.

Most English to Thai dictionaries were hopeless. Most were written for Thais. I think the Paiboon Thai-English-Thai Talking dictionary is now very good. Run that on the smart phone. Was not around back when I was learning. There are always some words missing from books. Could be euphemisms or expletives. Ha ha.

Advanced Thai students can use Longdo online Dictionary. Not suited to beginners at all.

Find Thais to talk to, who speak very clear, precise and slower Thai. Lazily pronounced fast Thai is quite hard to follow. I really struggled with Bangkok Tuk Tuk drivers in 1991. They spoke shitty Thai (or Issan maybe). I found a southern Thai girl who spoke very clear central Thai slowly. That helped a lot.

Syzygies
06-22-19, 05:45
We hear girls using ugly talk. If we use what we heard them say, we are in danger of looking really bad.

So I advise guys not to use the foul language or ugly talk vocab without an in depth understanding, which does not come immediately.

Paiboon Talking Dictionary, has a skull and cross bones mark for words that should not be used at all, or with extreme care.

And knowledge of what is acceptable to the person listening.

"Dtolae" is a word used by girls, that got me into trouble early on. Essentially guys cannot use it. I thought it means "bullshit artist". It is very offensive when spoken to girls. We might never understand why. Thais have gender double standards.

One ex GF was pissed off I used the word "moi" for pubic hair. Her standards were too high to accept dirty talk. I needed to use a euphemism instead (softer) "khon phet" (literally means "diamond hair". I also could not say "ngian" (horny) with her. Some girls cannot accept such crude talk. Current GF has no problem with it, but I have known her a long time.

"Hee" essentially means "c*nt" so I would not use it. "hoi" is slightly softer ("clam") and "jim" is softer still (so advisable).

When we hear Thai swear words, we won't know the deep feeling attached to them.

GF uses an Issan expletive "huu daak" (sounds like "who dark" and means "asshole" literally). In normal Thai it might be "ruu dtuut". However she does not use it in the western way. It seems to be equivalent to how we would use the expletive "fucking hell", since seems to be using it without referring to a person. Maybe one day I will understand it better.

Some Thai cuss words sound innocent enough but can't be used (safely), e. G. "ee dork thong" seems to be calling a girl a "golden flower" but is very offensive. I am not totally clear of the real meaning. Seems to be close to "b*tch". Important to know the danger words and avoid them.

Even in English I don't fully understand cuss words. "Bastard" seems to be not a strong cuss word any more. Maybe even "mother fuckers" does not sound so bad any more, after Bruce Willis used it such a lot.

I have to avoid using "dting dtong" which I once thought was a playful word. Seems the meaning ranges from "Crazy" to "Son of a b*tch".

Banana Boi
06-22-19, 09:09
I just swear in English. Everyone seems to understand the foul language I use just fine.

Isn't the whole purpose of swearing and bad mouthing supposed to p1ss someone off?

Paolo99
06-30-19, 13:58
"Dtolae" is a word used by girls, that got me into trouble early on. Essentially guys cannot use it. I thought it means "bullshit artist". It is very offensive when spoken to girls. We might never understand why. Thais have gender double standards.I heard that word a lot in my first trips (late 1990's), I wonder if it's used mostly by bar girls, because nowadays I almost never interact with bargirls and I never hear that word anymore. For us if we want to confront someone who keep lying, we would be better at saying he or she "choop gohok maak".


I also could not say "ngian" (horny) with her.I still find it difficult to understand the difference betwin "ngian" and 'siaoo". I think I was told "ngian" is more intense that "siaoo" (and it might be used only by girls also).

The definition that I might come close to it would be that "ngian" applies to a girl that is very excited and would like to have sex (applies even if she is alone) and "siaoo" would be an excitement that comes after being stimulated by her partner.


"Hee" essentially means "c*nt" so I would not use it. "hoi" is slightly softer ("clam") and "jim" is softer still (so advisable).I like to point at it by calling it "nong saao" to say it in a cute way.


GF uses an Issan expletive "huu daak" (sounds like "who dark" and means "asshole" literally). Didn't know that word myself but a few years back I read a review on a blog dedicated to Thailand where that word was used in an interesting way. There was a pack of gogo girls that were outside in the Nana complex before the opening of their bars, a customer went to one of the girls (obviously he already knew her) and she welcomed him by saying "oh my daak ling" . The guy thought that she said "oh my darling" when in fact she was saying "oh my monkey's ass", everybody around was laughing, and the guy didn't know they were all laughing at him. So it's good to know it just to understand it clearly when your being played by one of these girls.


"ee dork thong" seems to be calling a girl a "golden flower" but is very offensive. I am not totally clear of the real meaning. Seems to be close to "b*tch". Important to know the danger words and avoid them.This is also the definition that I came out with that word (eedork=*****). Almost all the girls in Pattaya call their close friends by this word, even used by cute girls in Bkk. We should never use it, it's just a word that they use by themselves.


I have to avoid using "dting dtong" which I once thought was a playful word. Seems the meaning ranges from "Crazy" to "Son of a b*tch".Since now I never thought it could be something like "son of a be*tch", I always thought it was something like calling someone "crazy" but in a funny way (a guy or girl that likes to do crazy stuff but in a funny way).

Other very bad words (to absolutely never use) are:

"Ay heea" (addressed to man) or "ee heea" (when addressed to a girl) would have a definition close to "mother fucker, or son of a WG (even though it doesn't literally translate in son of a be*tch but it's a very very bad word).

"ay sat" or "ee sat" , basically translate as "someone who is an animal, or subhuman (very very bad word also in Thai).

The very commonly known "kwaay" to designate someone that is very very stupid.

I agree that I also struggle to put a clear definition on many words.

Another expression that was used a lot before was "top salop salai" with the girl making the gesture (giving a slap on one side of the face and then coming back with the back of the same hand and slapping the other side of the face). I understood it as "slapping one's face" but it was always accompanied by the same gesture even when it was different girls saying it.

Paolo99
06-30-19, 20:44
I agree that I also struggle to put a clear definition on many words.I still cannot put a clear definition on some bad words, for example the word "kwanteen". I think I saw some reference to a foot in a dictionnary but it has to be something else.

There are also some not nice ways to call someone, I suspect that the word "bak" (probably only spoken by eesan girls) put just before the name is one of them (let's say your name is David and the girl call you bak David when she talk about you) but I never found a way to put a definition on this word.

Falcon 95
07-12-19, 10:29
Does anyone know what this Thai word means?

Maybe Mr. Syzygies?

Syzygies
10-09-19, 05:48
I just swear in English. Everyone seems to understand the foul language I use just fine.

Isn't the whole purpose of swearing and bad mouthing supposed to p1ss someone off?Its much safer to swear in your own language that you understand well.

Syzygies
10-09-19, 05:50
I still find it difficult to understand the difference betwin "ngian" and 'siaoo". I think I was told "ngian" is more intense that "siaoo" (and it might be used only by girls also).

The definition that I might come close to it would be that "ngian" applies to a girl that is very excited and would like to have sex (applies even if she is alone) and "siaoo" would be an excitement that comes after being stimulated by her partner.
Yes "ngian" simply means horny or "mii arom".

Siaow means a nerve has been stimulated with strong feeling arising. Could be sexual or could be like ice on a sensitive tooth.

Syzygies
10-09-19, 06:03
I still cannot put a clear definition on some bad words, for example the word "kwanteen". I think I saw some reference to a foot in a dictionnary but it has to be something else.

There are also some not nice ways to call someone, I suspect that the word "bak" (probably only spoken by eesan girls) put just before the name is one of them (let's say your name is David and the girl call you bak David when she talk about you) but I never found a way to put a definition on this word.Sorry to read this so late.

Guan Dteen literally means irritating or pestering another person's foot. In reality means you are pestering or annoying someone, such that their foot wants to kick you. Ha ha So beware irritating some one so much that they want to lash out with hand or foot. Can be a light hearted expression for anything you say that is irritating or being a smart ass.

Bak is word used for males, so it is almost like Mr but much less formal possibly even flippant at times, and can be used for young boys, even for male dogs, so it is not a respectful term. Used for persons of equal or lower status. Think of meaning something like boy or lad. Heard more often in Isaan I think. Would not use for older men when need to show respect. Certainly do not use for Monks. Monks should be addressed very respectfully like "Than" (sounds like Tun), or "Ajaan" (teacher).

Syzygies
10-09-19, 06:06
Does anyone know what this Thai word means?

Maybe Mr. Syzygies?The writing is too lazy and indistinct to make out Thai letters. An experienced Thai might be able to read it. I can maybe pick some letters but not all.

Last shape looks like a word repeat mark, but shape before that is not really like any letter I can think of.

Trillian
02-22-20, 02:11
Many of you probably know about Pimsleur, which teaches from speaking and listening, which is how people learn their native tongues. But they only have a beginner level and no plans to produce more. However, if enough people ask for it they'll reconsider. So fill out the form if you want.

https://www.pimsleur.com/request-new-language-program

Syzygies
03-06-20, 05:29
Many of you probably know about Pimsleur, which teaches from speaking and listening, which is how people learn their native tongues. But they only have a beginner level and no plans to produce more. However, if enough people ask for it they'll reconsider. So fill out the form if you want.

https://www.pimsleur.com/request-new-language-programI heard a lot about Pimsleur being good. I had it for German at one time.

It is my belief though that if the Pimsleur Basics course has taught you well, pronunciation and also basic grammar (which is trivially easy for Thai. No word ending changes), then you are set for self education from various sources. It will be important to get a book to teach you Thai script at some stage, to get at all advanced, but not top priority. I taught myself Thai script from AUA Reading and Writing book. Maybe hard to get these days.

Thai-Eng-Thai Talking Dictionary from Paiboon is very good because you can listen to words pronounced clearly. It has several different phonetic / Romanisation schemes built in. For me I am working on a set of flash cards (for a phone App) in a spreadsheet covering 10,000 Thai words. I know probably less than half of them. Comes from various sources but Belisan and Volubulis are words to search for to find vocab spreadsheets. One might have a top 1000 words as example.

Important to get a Thai teacher at some point to correct the pronunciation mistakes before they set in too deeply. Thai has sounds different to English so we are not good at even hearing them correctly at the early stages. Bad pronunciation of vowels will cause your Thai to be not understandable, where this does not happen in English. 99 % of good Thai speakers needed a teacher to listen to your attempts and correct them. Thai girls did help correct me in early times, but was not easy.

Best of all is immerse yourself with Thais that don't speak English. That was one of my early techniques in 1991. Ha ha. I improved rapidly at the time. I was forced to.

XXL
03-06-20, 05:57
https://activethai.com

Very good site. I hope they continue expanding it.

Spending like 3 months to learn the Thai script BEFORE learning the language is the way to go if most experts are to be believed. That way you can skip the transliteration almost from the start.

Berrys66
03-06-20, 16:34
The sort of women you will meet don't have a very large vocabulary so you don't need to know many words of Thai. Mostly about money is all they chat about.

Paolo99
03-18-20, 10:01
https://activethai.com

Very good site. I hope they continue expanding it.

Spending like 3 months to learn the Thai script BEFORE learning the language is the way to go if most experts are to be believed. That way you can skip the transliteration almost from the start.The best way to learn is to do both at the same time, learn reading and writing in Thai at the same time you're learning to speak Thai.

Of course you need a native speaker to teach you how to pronounce Thai words, easy to do when you're in Thailand, difficult if you're in your country.

Depending on which country you come from, nowadays you can find some good stuff to learn Thai (books with CDS particularly) and if you don't give up before finishing the lessons you can get a very good level.

XXL
03-20-20, 05:44
https://learn-thai-podcast.com

They had the best non-nonsense no-frills podcasts. There are samples in Youtube under "learningthai". Unfortunately the series is not supported any more. I mailed them for ways of sending the 197 USD to then download all the podcasts, but got no answer. I don't want to gamble my credit card. Sick and tired of sleepless nights over chargebacks.

I don't like ThaiPod101. They're spammers. Most importantly, their podcasts are three quarters filled with ramblings in (thai-accented) English. I remember one of their introductory podcasts about greetings in Thai.

Dan7373
11-19-20, 10:56
The best way to learn is to do both at the same time, learn reading and writing in Thai at the same time you're learning to speak Thai.

Of course you need a native speaker to teach you how to pronounce Thai words, easy to do when you're in Thailand, difficult if you're in your country.

Depending on which country you come from, nowadays you can find some good stuff to learn Thai (books with CDS particularly) and if you don't give up before finishing the lessons you can get a very good level.I agree that for foreigners, it's best to learn how to read and write and speak at the same time. Because the alphabet tells you exactly how to pronounce the words.

You might have difficulty with pronunciation anyway. But without the writing, you might end up inventing new words in Thai language that only people close to you will understand but not anybody else. This is how English and other languages were changed in the past. It was a large infusion of foreigners, who didn't speak the language and didn't know how to read and write. And I've seen some Thai people do this kind of thing with the English language, because they've learned it without knowing how to read and write in English.

But you can get more or less perfect Thai pronunciation on your phone nowadays. You just need to install on your phone a free app called Google Translate, which you can find at the link below:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.translate&hl=en_CA&gl=US

This app will correctly pronounce any Thai word that you spell correctly in there. And this app will even translate street signs that are written in Thai language. You just need to point the phone's camera at the street sign and your phone will show you the English translation of what's written there in Thai language. This app has some offline translation capability, if you download Thai language in its settings. But to have its full functionality, you need to have an Internet connection on your phone.

I've tried using this app to see if it will translate sex-words, including words that some people might find offensive. And it does translate such words. But I also found that this app's translation isn't always perfect. So, if you want to be sure that you have good translation, then you should translate from English to Thai and then back to English to see if you are still getting the same meaning in English. If you still have the same meaning, then you can be sure that you have a good translation.

If you use short and simple sentences or phrases, then this app's translation is pretty good.